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The Santa Cruz City Council having completed its business and closed session is back in session. Clerk, would you call the roll to reestablish the quorum? Thank you, Mayor. Council member of Tregera. Present. Present. Present. Newstone. Present.

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Older. O'Hara. Yeah. Vice Mayor Kalentori Johnson. Present. Mayor Kiley. Present. The court haven't been established. We will proceed. We're on oral communication. This is the opportunity for anyone to address the council on a matter under our jurisdiction.

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but not on today's agenda for period, not to exceed two minutes.

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Anyone with us wish to do that?

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Mr. Ewing, good afternoon, welcome.

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No, my goodness.

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Would ever happen to you.

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I hope you get better soon.

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Mr. Keely, I totally appreciate that.

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I need two.

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Couchers are great.

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I've been on couchers many times in my life.

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Yeah.

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Oh, hi.

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I mean, James Ewing with minutes March 24th, 2026.

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It's interesting, you know, six years ago in one day I walked in to get a piece of paper

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about the itinerary for the next meeting on March 24th, 2020, and meeting was closed

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down.

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I got to witness public figure behaving like a panic child.

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So here we are six years later, and wow, so many different things are going on.

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if that situation reciprocated a bunch of regulations and control methods and a lot

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of people losing their freedom, their jobs that they've had for years and years.

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What happened about three weeks ago isn't that kind of similarly orchestrated and

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it might we not be having fuel shortages and food shortages and when I'm at so

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only 20% of the oil that goes through there but the larger percentage of the

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chemical fertilizers so we are headed for a natural cold spell so I was

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changing the subject slightly to solutions as much as I loved to my things like

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tomatoes and stuff that goes through the season and stuff there was a

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presentation on 10 perennial plants. Only one I can remember of the 10 of the

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Sparigus, but once they get established and take six months to two years, that's

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food for 20 to 50 years. So I'm certainly looking forward to being in a

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position to do a lot of guerrilla gardening. One of the plants in particular

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puts nitrogen back in the soil. So to be solutions oriented, why not? You can't

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always have so much fun being a killjoy. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Ewing. Anyone on

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line? Good afternoon.

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Welcome to the city council member meeting.

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Yes, finally, yeah. Hey, thank you.

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outrageous utility taxes in Santa Cruz started with measure X in 2005

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for your information, partly courtesy of the co-signer,

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Fred, the tax maestro, O'Keeley,

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where the city fearmonger and public safety service cuts

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said no rate increases, said it would only cost two and a half million type tactics to

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get approved extra 3% water sewer, extra 12% refuse franchise tax to replace illegal

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franchise fees. Illegal franchise fees were made illegal because various abusive bus

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hogged backwater by you cities lack the leadership fairness principles of the PUC or other cities.

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Huntington Beach has a 4.9% utility tax and ours is 11 and a half and they have a zero tax

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on refugees and ours is 20 and a half tax, which makes SC the most excessively taxed anywhere.

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Yes, the fees were made legal taxes, but a name change doesn't remove the abuse of an essential

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health service monopoly. The racquet worsens, borrow hundreds of millions more and tax that too.

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Users will be paying one and a half million more tax on top of the about 14 million a year,

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just on utility debt payments alone for the next 40 years. Recent changes to the budget,

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reporting documents since 2024 now conveniently omit and hide the detailed budget fund balance projection tables and replace them with high level combined figures.

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So a public examination of any dirty laundry enterprise fund is no longer possible.

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Bring back those detailed fund balances and projections. Consider the now balanced invisible water rate stabilization fund.

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our rates sure aren't stable or that constant and they are taxed it's every year

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three plus million collected and then taxed and that fund reached its 10 million

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presumed reserve fund balance way back in 2023. I see no fund transfers out. What's

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going on got me only some people know and they ain't talking. Thanks. Thank you.

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Anyone else with us in chambers wish to make comments under or

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communication. Do we have anyone else online? We'll take the next person online.

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First online, good afternoon. Welcome to the City Council meeting.

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Good afternoon, Fred. Good afternoon, Council. Good afternoon.

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This is Rayleigh Snyder. I was downtown last Wednesday.

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I was in the mornings. I was over at Jaxx on Cedar Street.

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This is quite a bit of construction going on.

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And one thing I found kind of nowhere, I also am on crutches, I had a recent mishap where

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I've got a broken ankle and I'm in a cast and what I noticed which is kind of strange

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is just, you know, from that vantage on the diagonal across from all the construction,

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there are all these officers that were patrolling that area and they seem like they were just

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kind of reason through. But as soon as they saw me, like they stopped and they were like

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kind of suddenly startled that there was actually somebody there to witness what's going

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on there. So that happened twice. And then there was a group of other first responders.

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They seemed to be the fire department and they were across the street. And somehow I got

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the same exact reaction from them. And so I don't know. I don't know what it is about,

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you know, people are nervous about how much development is going on. And I'm one of the

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vocal critics of it as you know but for me it was just very off-putting that I

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was being treated in this way it kind of felt like they were considering

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scrutinizing me considering you know the idea of I don't know confronting me for

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the sake of confronting me I you know I had a unpleasant interaction with

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Chief Escalani because he felt like my opposition to the flock cameras was, you know, perhaps,

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you know, cursory or superficial.

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Well, I had the misfortune of meeting Palantir founder Peter Teal back in the 1990s.

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And I really am not a fan of the technology and the six-year price tag in the sort of

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name that's being over with that.

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Thanks.

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Thank you.

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Do we have anyone else online?

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We'll take the next person online.

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Good afternoon.

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Welcome to the City Council meeting.

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Good afternoon, Mayor and Council members.

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This is Rafa Sanemfeld.

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I think you all know me as a passionate housing advocate here in the county.

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I just wanted to bring to your attention concerning political development in the state of California

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regarding the Howard-Gervis Tax Payer Associations, potentially successful November voter initiative

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to, quote, unquote, save Prop 13, which would roll back transfer taxes and parcel taxes

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that have not been passed by a two-thirds majority.

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I was part of the campaign to help pass measure C in the city of Santa Cruz, which we're

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hoping is going to raise millions of dollars for affordable housing here in the city.

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And if this November measure is the pass, it would retroactively cancel the measure

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C and we would be stuck with where we were prior to the passage of that measure.

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So, I would urge the City Council to use everything in its power to get the word out, to educate voters about the

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problematic nature of this Howard-Jervis Taxpayer Association measure, and how it would cost the city

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especially for the housing and homeless services that we're hoping to provide with the passage of

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measure. Thank you very much. Thank you, Rafa. Anyone else?

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Okay. Last call for oral communication for folks here in council chambers.

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We are now on item, excuse me, we are now on item number four.

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Mr. Elliott will be making a presentation regarding the clam chowder cook-off and an update thereof and four.

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And I see Mr. Reyes lurking in the front row, the all-time favorite of ours from the boardwalk.

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Good to see you, sir.

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Mr. Elliott, what do we got to say?

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Thank you, Mayor.

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I'm here just to introduce this amazing team.

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Behind me, Tremaine, Head and Jones,

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are Superintendent of Recreation and Honolary Sprient,

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our supervisor for events and classes to lead,

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a presentation on this year's clam shout-out

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or cook-off another year of great success,

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and please be joined by Chris Reyes

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from the boardwalk as well.

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Thank you.

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Good afternoon, sir.

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Thank you, Mayor.

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Thank you, Council.

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I'm Mr. Archimane-Henjun, Superintendent of Recreation.

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I'm joined the Honolese Bryant Recreation Supervisor

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for the Department of Parks Recreation.

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And we're here to present our up-to-unclam chatter.

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I would be remiss if I didn't start this presentation

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with the jingle.

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So, chowder, clam chowder, chowder is a soup.

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We love the best.

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This has been, I'm not sure if we want to encourage a lot of that.

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Well, thank you.

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This is the long sending tradition in the city of Santa Cruz.

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And it is the longest running and continuously running

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climb charter event in all of North America.

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Just pretty amazing.

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We owe our sorry.

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So we owe a lot of respect to the net she maker,

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former Parks and Recreation Director.

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But then superintendents, sorry, supervisor of recreation back in 1982.

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to. She founded the Commissar to Cook Off in 1982, but it was based off an idea from

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the prior year on how to generate revenue for the department. She looked at a number

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of different events. In that year in 1981, she implemented a Chile Cook Off at Harvey West

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Park. While it was successful in some ends, it was not successful financially. She decided

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to pivot. She got this brilliant idea to pivot towards Commissar to do that event more

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the winter months. She reached out to the boardwalk and she's struck a partnership up with the boardwalk.

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I host the event, but at that time, the city would take on full responsibility for implementing event, including all the logistics, scouting out the chefs and working event itself.

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I'd like to say that there's a little bit of trivia here. So, clam chatter and myself are both the same age, but I will not let you know who's older. So back in 1985, the cook off a grown, an outgrown, nipped in kingdom. That was with the original space and location where the cook off took place.

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It grew outdoors. We had 30 teams that joined. It was a single day at that point in time.

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In 2015, we decided to split the event into two days, but the Saturday and the Sunday, because we had over 80 chef entries.

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Predominantly, those were amateur chefs, but we also had a serious number of professional chefs, because it's a very good competition for them to promote local business activity.

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During the COVID-19 pandemic, instead of skipping even altogether, we imagined the events and we continued to do more innovations as the years go forward.

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So in the suite of collaboration over the years, our roles and responsibilities between the CSI Company and the boardwalk and ourselves have shifted.

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But we've been nonetheless committed to producing the event because it is such a success, not just for Santa Cruz in terms of our revenue, but just for the community and the regional around.

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The boardwalk continues to offer general operations,

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booth assignments for the various

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tasting and shifts and entries.

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They offer security sponsorships,

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the recruit and manage judges,

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as well as handle the general marketing and promotions,

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and the chef contest movement.

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On the city side, we do overall event logistics.

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We also assemble all the tasting kits.

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We assemble over 12,000 kits every year,

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and it's a single person that does that.

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Judy Cobb is her name. She's amazing. She's also one of our seniors and at the senior center.

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We also handle the merchandise design, so that's including the event logo itself,

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price packages, sales in terms of day-of-sales as well as pre-sales, general promotions,

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and we also assist with chef recruitment.

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This past year alone, I already mentioned the 12,000 kits,

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That's including over 100 hours of event time just for that preparation.

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We had over 600 pre-orders that we both process assembled and then delivered on-site.

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We have 16 volunteers that contributed a total of 64 hours for the day for two days, I

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should say.

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And over 20 parts of recreation employees including our full-time and temporary staff contributed

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to the event.

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And total, they had over 215 hours of work hours.

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This is a significant event because it's a million dollar event in many ways.

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For the last 10 years, we generated over a million dollars in revenue, and in total

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lifetime, we have an estimate of over $3 million, that's 44 plus years.

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And it just continues to contribute to the local economy.

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This year, we did partner with a couple of hotels to increase the hotel stays, to promote

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the event as a multi-day event so that folks stay here for the entire weekend.

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Some of the visitation data from 2023 to 2026, you'll see that there's been some spikes and

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some jumps. There was definitely that post-COVID bump that we saw in 2024 and 2025, in terms of revenue

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raised. We've seen some market increases over the last four to five years. It used to be that on

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average we had about sales between $50 to $80,000, but the last few years have seen a market increase

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and that was partly in response to pre-sales and aggressive promotions.

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These are the 2026 winners

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for the amateur competition. I'll do a quick shout out to the people's twice. That was the match

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about Chowder for Boston and for Manhattan, it's four men in a clam. The best Boston overall was

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bloody brain chowder, the best Manhattan was also bloody brain chowder. On the most

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taste it was the silence of the clams and there are awards and prizes for those who come up with

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clever ideas for their names and their booths and Rosie the Riveter was that for the amateur.

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For the professionals, the point kitchen and bar took home for the Boston and the East Side

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eatery took it home for Manhattan. Best Boston overall was UCSE dining and to best Manhattan overall

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was the Dominican Oaks retirement community. So if you planted your retire, that's a good place.

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The most tasted was I feel bar and grill, a great partner as well with the wharf,

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and the best booth for the professional was Hick but Shatter.

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We thank all of our partners.

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I also would be remiss if I didn't give a great shout out to Julie Graf and Rita Dombana,

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our Recreation Coordinators in Events and Classes, as well as to Gladys Rodriguez and Cardi Pope,

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our wonderful partners over at the CSI company.

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And I believe Chris also had some words

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that he'd like to share with us today.

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Mr. Reyes, good afternoon, welcome to the council.

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Hi everybody, good to see you.

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It's nice to be here under such pleasant terms.

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I am Chris Reyes from the San Chris Beach Boardwalk,

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San Chris CSI company.

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I just want to say how much we love being part of this,

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how honored we are to be part of this.

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I know you get sort of the heat all the time

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and the city gets yelled at all the time for all kinds of things.

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This is one of the great positive examples of a public private partnership between our organization and the city.

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We're really grateful to the parks and rec staff and all the volunteers they bring.

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I think it works out perfectly because they kind of take on the pieces that we don't want to do.

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And I think we take on the pieces of maybe they don't want to do.

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And it's also the first weekend of the year where the boardwalk really comes to a life after a busy winter.

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When we're preparing new things and bringing new stuff online.

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So for us, it always feels like the first big fun weekend of the year.

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We wouldn't have it any other way.

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We were really grateful for this partnership

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and happy to continue it for many, many more years.

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So thank you all.

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Thank you and please pass on our thanks

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and appreciation to all of your colleagues

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at Bolton Boardwalk and this side company.

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Good.

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All right.

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Mr. Elliott, do you wish to anyone

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wish to make a final remarks here?

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We, we good to go.

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Wonderful.

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Well, thank you very, very much.

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We really appreciate all the good work.

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All right.

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How about a round of applause for this slide?

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And keep staying in the spirit of good things happening.

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Item 5 is a proclamation declaring February 13th, 2026 as meals on wheels in Santa Cruz County, which is a 50th anniversary.

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And it is a pleasure to acknowledge councilmember Gabriela Tregaro to make a presentation in that regard.

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Good afternoon.

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Thank you, Mayor, and I'd also like to welcome up Dana Wagner, who serves as a senior program director for Meals on Wheels.

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So I'll read it off. Whereas Meals on Wheels for Santa Cruz County provides approximately 164,000 home-delivered meals and 32,000 meals at four community dining sites each year through the support of nearby.

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by nearly 75 dedicated volunteers.

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And whereas meals on wheels for Santa Cruz County,

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dining sites located in Ben Lomond, live oak, Santa Cruz,

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and Watsonville offer more than meals

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by fostering community and connection

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while providing the daily meals to adults aged 60 and older.

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And whereas within the city of Santa Cruz,

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meals on wheels delivers approximately 62,000

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1000 home-delivered meals and 9,000 meals at the London Nelson Center annually, ensuring

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that 566 older adults receive nutritious meals in the city of Santa Cruz, as well as

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the meaningful human connection and critical support.

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Whereas meals on wheels has never missed a meal, continuing uninterrupted service throughout

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the floods of 1982, the 1989 Loma preta earthquake, the CZU fire complex in complex fire of 2020,

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the COVID pandemic, and beyond, while providing emergency supplies, wellness checks, and information

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coordination as well. Whereas Mielsen Wiel serves some of our most vulnerable community members,

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supporting their ability to live independently in their own homes and helping

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prevent costly nursing care and hospitalization. And whereas this year, as

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the Armer said, Males and Wheels reaches its 50th year anniversary of serving

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older adults and is also celebrating the milestone with its 13th annual food

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from the Heart Luncheon, which is a fundraiser for their wellness programs, as

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As well as the achievement of delivering its 10 millionth meal, an extraordinary achievement

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reflecting five decades of compassion, service, commitment to ensuring that no senior goes hungry.

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Now, therefore, I, Gabriella Tregero, along with Marifred Keely and my colleagues on council,

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do hereby proclaim February 13th, 2026, as meal zone wheels for Santa Cruz County 50th anniversary day in the city of Santa Cruz.

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We encourage all citizens to join in honoring meals on wheels for enhancing the lives of older adults by providing nourishing meals, meaningful human connection, and dedicated service for 50 years.

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Thank you, Deena, to you and your volunteers.

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Mr. Wagner, the floor is yours.

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Thank you.

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Thank you so much, Mayor Keely, City Council.

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It is just an honor to accept this proclamation on behalf of the tens and thousands of older vulnerable adults that we have served over the last decade.

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last 50 years, and as Council member said, we can't believe we have delivered 10 million

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meals during this time, and so we're just so grateful for the partnership with the city

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and the county to be able to continue to serve our vulnerable populations and to provide

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them not only with food but with meaningful connection and wellness checks to ensure that

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they live with dignity.

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I'm honored to accept this.

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Thank you so much.

285
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Well, thank you very much, Chair.

286
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Wonderful.

287
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We are on item number six, rather than this a mayoral proclamation regarding arts, culture, and creativity, and Councilmember Bruner will be making this presentation.

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Thank you. I'd like to invite anybody who is here for this arts, culture, and creativity proclamation to please step forward.

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Thank you.

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so

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welcome. Whereas in April 2019 the California legislature established the

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first arts culture and creativity month and April 2026 will be the 8th annual

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statewide celebration. Add and this year's theme is joy action and power. Whereas

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As the city of Santa Cruz, California recognizes that arts, culture, and creativity are essential

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public goods, vital for the health and growth of thriving communities.

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And whereas arts, culture, and creativity brings joy by uniting communities, inspiring

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individuals, and celebrating the richness of our city's diversity.

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and whereas arts, culture, and creativity inspires action.

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Action that drives positive change and strengthens the social fabric of our communities.

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And whereas arts, culture, and creativity powers our city's capacity

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to address community challenges, including advancing equity, inclusion, and access.

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And whereas the City's Office of Economic Development, the City Arts Commission and the City Council in collaboration with Arts Council, Santa Cruz County, lead efforts to advance the arts that drive economic growth, stimulate business activity, attracts tourism, foster civic pride, and contribute to public safety and overall social well-being.

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Now, therefore, I, Sonia Brenner, on behalf of Fred Killie Mayor of the City of Santa Cruz

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and the entire City Council, do hereby proclaim the month of April 2026 as arts, culture, and

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creativity month in the City of Santa Cruz, and I encourage all citizens to support the arts

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and join in this celebration.

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Thank you.

308
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And then I will present this and then please will give you a couple minutes if you want

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to introduce yourself and say any few words.

310
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Good afternoon and welcome.

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Thank you for all your wonderful work.

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Please do hear it from you.

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Thank you.

314
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Thank you.

315
00:29:31,670 --> 00:29:35,910
Council Member Brunner and thank you Mayor Keiley and the rest of the council.

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My name is Anna Elizabeth.

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I'm the board chair of the Arts Council of Santa Cruz County.

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And I want to thank you today for this honor, we're appreciative of being

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acknowledged for the work we've been doing for so many years, especially around

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equity in the county and the arts. And we look forward to further-

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The reading and really celebrating this year, this month in April. Thank you. Well, thank you very much. Either of you wish to make any remarks, please feel free to do so. Thank you, everybody. Yes, I'm Peter Wang, board member of the Arts Council. And again, thank you for the recognition and the support of the arts. And I just wanted to just call out also in the times that we're at right now. The arts are a form of allowing us to have

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hope and resist and enjoy our lives and think about ways to move forward so thank you again

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for all the support.

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Thank you, Mr. Wang.

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Good afternoon.

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Good afternoon.

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My name is Rebecca Escovedo.

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I am the Vice Chair for the Arts Commission here, the City of Santa Cruz.

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And I just want to say thank you all so much, Councilman Bruner, Mayor Healey.

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This is, Santa Cruz is very beautiful, it's very rich, and one of the things that makes

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so special is the arts, whether that be culinary arts, our murals, our exhibitions, our live

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music, everything. So it means a lot that you all are investing in them and investing in artists.

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So thank you. Thank you very much. Best wishes to you. Thank you. We are on presiding officer

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announcements. I will announce that March 31st in the city of Santa Cruz will be

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entitled Farm Worker Recognition Day, and that will be the case on enhanced fourth

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00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:39,720
basis as well. Statement of Disqualifications, anybody on Disqualifications? All right,

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additions or deletions?

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Madam City Attorney. No. Thank you so much.

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City Attorney Report on Closed Session.

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Our council met in close session and discussed the liability claims as noted on your agenda.

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Those are the claims of Wayne Jose Shaffer, Adam Britewell, Deborah Kathleen Courier,

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and James Patrick Shea.

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00:32:04,060 --> 00:32:10,120
The council also met to discuss real property negotiations, including an item concerning

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121 SoCal Avenue and 1316 through 1320 Pacific Avenue, and I'll note that council member

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or Bruno recused herself during those discussions.

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The council also meant to discuss a real property item,

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concerning a property at 13.05 Eastcliff Drive.

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And last, the council met to discuss an item of existing litigation,

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and that was the case,

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00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,240
Catherine Capaldo and Gabrielle de Koch versus the city of Santa Cruz.

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That includes my report.

352
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:39,960
Thank you.

353
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,960
That's a city clerk.

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If you would like to draw attention to anything,

355
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,380
Thank you very much.

356
00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:56,980
We are on the consent agenda for those of you that might be unfamiliar with it.

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We will be taking up items 8 through 16 inclusive on one motion.

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Prior to doing that, we will, I will give the opportunity to council members to ask a question

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00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:15,420
or pull an item or ask a question on it, and I'll give you that opportunity as well.

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If you wish to value yourself with the opportunity to come in on the Consent Agenda, comment on as many items as you wish, but you'll have a total of three minutes to do so on all items inclusive.

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I'm going to start on my left with the Council Member Golder on the Consent Agenda.

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Council Member O'Hara, Madam Vice Mayor, Council Member Newsom, Council Member Bruner.

363
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I have a comment on item 11.

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Please proceed.

365
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,080
Thank you.

366
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Item 11 is the approval of an option agreement for site lease to support direct current

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fast charging infrastructure.

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And there are three public parking sites identified in this and I just wanted to add that one

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One of those sites is in district two, my district,

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and I've received positive feedback from that location.

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And I think that would be a great asset

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into the neighborhood, so thank you.

373
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Thank you, your councilmember to go on the consent agenda.

374
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All right. Anyone who is with us,

375
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we should come in on the consent agenda.

376
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This would be your opportunity to do so

377
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in the event that we have folks online and with us.

378
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because we'll talk about it back and forth and I'm going to recognize our city attorney prior to taking any further testimony.

379
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:56,260
Thank you so much. I believe before we go to public comment, it may make sense for Bonnie Lipscomb to comment on one item on the consent agenda that has a slightly modified recommendation.

380
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Very good. We'll take that. Thank you, Mr. York. We'll take her first and we'll be right with you.

381
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That's why you get to sit down for a second.

382
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There you go.

383
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:07,980
Ms. Lips, good afternoon.

384
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:09,840
Good afternoon, Mayor.

385
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,800
Good afternoon, Mayor, members of the council.

386
00:35:12,980 --> 00:35:20,960
We could, I could present and have the city clerk pull up the item with a recommendation coming out of closed session for your-

387
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:21,480
I'm 15.

388
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:26,160
Yes, for item 15 related to the Natural History Museum, at least.

389
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And coming out of closed session, we had resolved with a tenant, the maintenance issue

390
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prior to closed session, so we had recommended that change, and then in closed session, you

391
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directed us based on an overview of insurance options with the language that's before

392
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you now for your consideration.

393
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:47,760
Thank you.

394
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:55,660
And you're providing that to us, so when we get to making a motion, this would be the motion.

395
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Is that correct?

396
00:35:56,820 --> 00:35:57,620
That's right.

397
00:35:57,940 --> 00:35:58,240
Thank you.

398
00:35:58,660 --> 00:36:01,300
Now, further on the consent agenda, Mr. Ewing?

399
00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:13,580
Yeah.

400
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:14,080
Thank you.

401
00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:15,520
My name is James Ewing.

402
00:36:15,660 --> 00:36:16,920
We've been on the consent agenda.

403
00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:24,600
Last meeting, the end of March, the minutes, the number 14, the e-bikes, and then on the bridges.

404
00:36:26,220 --> 00:36:30,080
This time, number 14, the two police motorcycles.

405
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:39,520
vehicles. And I guess that's it for now. So starting with the police motorcycles, you

406
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,860
certainly get what you pay for. And I know if they're like the city of Capitola, there's

407
00:36:44,860 --> 00:36:51,080
some pretty nice machines. Now going back to the minutes of the previous meeting with the

408
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:58,660
e-bikes, I think there's a lot of slippery slope situations going on. I think that the

409
00:36:59,540 --> 00:37:05,540
I think people of all ages are extremely rude on their bicycles and their e-bikes, and

410
00:37:05,540 --> 00:37:12,380
it makes me glad I don't have a samurai sword with me to be blunt.

411
00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:14,740
People really need to be respectful.

412
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I have found that now that I'm on a e-bike a lot, it's really one of the most joyous experiences

413
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I've been able to do because you're dealing with eye contact with people, and it's really

414
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a lot of fun.

415
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,840
So I think they're the big education thing that's necessary. I've engaged with a lot

416
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:41,340
of youth about like three different ways. You can invalidate three different tickets, but

417
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:47,580
three different ways you can invalidate 90% of tickets. But the bottom line is you're being stopped

418
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:54,140
to get that ticket probably because you were rude. So don't just be respectful. So enough on that,

419
00:37:54,140 --> 00:38:00,320
Going to the Murray Street Bridge, I think it's amazing that one way traffic was open for a while.

420
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,520
I think it was even more amazing that it was open for both directions.

421
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:15,740
Now, everything is defaulting to artificial intelligence, which is no match for natural stupidity,

422
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,020
except that a lot of the artificial intelligence is being trained by our

423
00:38:20,020 --> 00:38:22,980
at Dick Ostercy, which makes it kind of scary.

424
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:26,080
So I do hope that the two-way traffic opens again,

425
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,460
because I think that was quite useful.

426
00:38:28,660 --> 00:38:31,320
I know I found it useful, even though I take the gravel

427
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,080
and the tracks a couple times a day,

428
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,620
because I'm to live dangerously, I guess,

429
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,320
and along the lines of being able to program things,

430
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,260
we just really need to be careful about what we are assigning,

431
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:49,640
supposed machine intelligence to make decisions for us

432
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,500
because it is not doing a lot of positive things worldwide to stay on topic.

433
00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:57,700
So now for now, thank you very much.

434
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:58,760
Thank you, sir.

435
00:39:00,260 --> 00:39:01,680
Do we have anyone online?

436
00:39:02,540 --> 00:39:06,560
We're going to take this person in line and then we'll take the first person online.

437
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,180
Good afternoon and welcome.

438
00:39:11,210 --> 00:39:11,710
Hello again.

439
00:39:11,970 --> 00:39:17,130
Thank you so much for your consideration and direction on the Sanctuary Museum of Natural

440
00:39:17,130 --> 00:39:17,650
Histories.

441
00:39:18,530 --> 00:39:31,930
I have a few board members here in the audience with me today, and I really look forward to sharing your direction with our Board of Directors tomorrow night so that we can continue to celebrate our partnership with the city of Santa Cruz.

442
00:39:31,930 --> 00:39:40,850
And I wanted to kick off that celebration with the first public announcement of our accreditation, which means that we are now the only accredited museum in the county.

443
00:39:40,850 --> 00:39:49,470
and we as partners, historic partners with the city get to share in that accolade and we are so grateful for your continued support.

444
00:39:49,870 --> 00:39:50,030
Thanks.

445
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:53,730
Well, thank you and congratulations on the accreditation.

446
00:39:54,030 --> 00:39:57,470
Thank you for being such good partners with the city.

447
00:39:58,310 --> 00:40:02,430
Anyone else with us will take the next person online?

448
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:13,970
Yes, as regards item 11, my gut feeling is you will use this EV charging as a way to increase revenue.

449
00:40:14,250 --> 00:40:19,890
You didn't say how much parking is going to be in the garage, but I'm guessing your take from this item is going to be more.

450
00:40:20,450 --> 00:40:27,250
While simultaneously denying most people who will also be paying for the garage access to it, except for the privileged owners of pricey EVs.

451
00:40:27,250 --> 00:40:32,930
Who? Yes, we'll also get charged. No pun intended. The rest that I mentioned here is just a rant

452
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:40,790
It seems you and perhaps other government entities didn't get the memo that subsidizing EVs is becoming an ineffective loser proposition

453
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:48,690
The reality now is that AI alone is gobbling up electrical energy far faster than solar wind could ever make a dent into some estimate

454
00:40:48,690 --> 00:40:55,770
100 gigawatt electric power plants will need to be built perhaps nuclear perhaps natural gas filled fire

455
00:40:55,770 --> 00:41:01,090
excuse me but definitely not so or when will be the solution finally to making this forever subsidy at joke

456
00:41:01,090 --> 00:41:06,110
It might be nice to have a few fast-charging locations, but if it made any economic sense

457
00:41:06,110 --> 00:41:10,930
We'd already see them in private parking lots all over by now. This won't make a

458
00:41:11,450 --> 00:41:19,330
Dent or excuse me. This won't make a dang lot or any environmental difference considering where the country on the world is going and the little

459
00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:24,790
Unreported into Nile facts like how actually not green EVs are from mining to disposal

460
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:30,650
So the other affordable cost and there are power grids grinding to a halt, more power

461
00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:31,410
are ignored.

462
00:41:31,890 --> 00:41:37,990
How long exactly do you figure to promote EV subsidy, solar subsidy before economic and

463
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:39,610
practical reality gives it a spanking?

464
00:41:40,310 --> 00:41:45,170
Is the lease payment going 100% to debt reduction in its fair share?

465
00:41:45,470 --> 00:41:49,590
I consider parking as a slush fund that pays for everything besides parking downtown.

466
00:41:49,590 --> 00:41:56,930
I suspect maybe the money will go elsewhere except debt, although it really should sense this garage is where the debt comes from

467
00:41:58,330 --> 00:42:04,670
While you're at it and come through the public again with another million dollar EV garbage truck that costs three times more than normal ones

468
00:42:04,670 --> 00:42:12,530
And then tax that cost and some more at 20 plus 5% refuse, right? The public will really appreciate that that

469
00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:19,310
We indicate no idea what the operator will well, excuse me. You're not indicating what idea of the opera

470
00:42:19,310 --> 00:42:26,490
Well, you're not indicating what the operator will charge what you will charge where the money goes, but of course you'll approve it anyway. Thanks.

471
00:42:28,540 --> 00:42:35,520
Thank you, sir. Anyone else online? We'll take the next person online. Good afternoon. Welcome.

472
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:47,920
Good afternoon. Rafa Simon-Feldigan speaking on behalf of myself as a housing advocate. I'm commenting on a consent agenda item number nine,

473
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:54,720
which is the city's acceptance of the regional housing needs allocation annual progress report.

474
00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:06,760
First I wanted to amend the city for its significant progress in getting low income and very low income housing

475
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:17,100
across the finish line and under construction, but as you'll know in the report, the city has not made the climate

476
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:25,000
to produce market market rate and moderate income housing feasible, and we're not on track

477
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:32,020
to meet our moderate income and above moderate income housing goals that are assigned to us

478
00:43:32,020 --> 00:43:35,940
by the state and the association of moderate Bay Area governments.

479
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:45,380
So, I would just take this opportunity to encourage the council to be thinking about what needs to happen in the city

480
00:43:45,380 --> 00:43:51,060
to reduce the barriers to moderate income and above moderate income housing

481
00:43:51,060 --> 00:43:56,360
construction. And that means reducing the costs and making it easier to build

482
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:07,460
things like reducing fees and streamline those sort of housing. The state

483
00:44:07,460 --> 00:44:12,020
actually if we still are not on track to meet our housing needs for these

484
00:44:12,020 --> 00:44:21,120
categories will automatically allow the city of projects that have a minimal amount of affordable

485
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:27,840
housing in them to be proposed and approved by right in the city of Santa Cruz. Starting,

486
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:34,360
I believe in 2027, if we keep on the pace that we're going. So I'd actually encourage the city to

487
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:41,900
jump start, get ahead of the curve and be thinking about some of the streamlining efforts that

488
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,860
we'll be coming up in your discussion later this afternoon with regards to the object of

489
00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:54,020
standards and density bonus item that is coming before you. We really need to figure out what we can

490
00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:59,460
do to make housing at all levels of income feasible.

491
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:18,560
And buildable in our community. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Anyone else? We have, we do have one more. We'll take that person online. Good afternoon. Welcome to the city council meeting. Hello, again. It's brother Snyder. Thank you, Fred. Thank you, council.

492
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:23,040
Yeah. Looking over the.

493
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:31,020
One thing I wanted to mention a bit of dissent because these things are kind of lashed together.

494
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,140
Most people don't really understand the procedural way.

495
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:44,740
They can send a gender work, but the dismissing the lawsuit by Wayne Schaeffer to me after having heard what it's about.

496
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,420
I'm in support of it just to put that out there.

497
00:45:53,080 --> 00:46:00,200
The issue, let's see, the police motorcycle issue, I think that's what Gavin Newsom did

498
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:09,440
in Oakland when they were having kind of a rash of embarrassing criminal events.

499
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:15,100
They sent in the CHP, they sent in just a great number of CHP officers, many of them, of

500
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:21,660
course on motorcycles. Everybody remembers that TV show. You know, it's it it is actually a very

501
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:31,760
efficient way to patrol. Capitol of course, you know, you know, that's you know, any beach

502
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:39,020
community officers that back when they did predicted policing, I think it was right in front of or

503
00:46:39,020 --> 00:46:44,380
between the casino and the Boeing alley, which was the corner, the corner was, you know, considered

504
00:46:44,380 --> 00:46:49,140
to back then by the rudimentary, you know, artificial intelligence at that time,

505
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:55,240
statistical processing, you know, that that was considered a hotspot and maybe it still is. But,

506
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:04,980
you know, someone else touched on the electric garbage truck and that kind of relates to

507
00:47:05,660 --> 00:47:12,520
what the parking spaces that, with the charging stations, sort of illustrate, is that the pretty

508
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,900
Maybe high maintenance, electric vehicles, like you have one, you want to go to LA, you're

509
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:21,220
going to have to charge at least once to get down there on most TVs.

510
00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:21,840
I don't know.

511
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:33,060
It'd take you all day instead of maybe half of a day if you were proceeding efficiently.

512
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:40,020
Kind of unlike the way I speak at these meetings with lots of ums and pauses and whatnot.

513
00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:50,500
I'll tell you what, yeah, I feel like the electric vehicle stuff and the climate stuff kind

514
00:47:50,500 --> 00:47:57,040
of has intrinsic flaws in the logic so and it's very obviously a very partisan issue.

515
00:47:57,340 --> 00:48:01,640
So coming up in the next election there's going to be a lot of talk about exactly how much

516
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:09,200
do we need to leverage ourselves to the hill with renewables and with electric vehicles

517
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,700
and what not. I do think it's an important issue that Californians should be talking about,

518
00:48:12,940 --> 00:48:17,620
because right now gasoline is extremely, I think everybody moves.

519
00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:24,100
Thank you. Thank you. We have anyone else online?

520
00:48:25,260 --> 00:48:32,480
Last call. Matters back before the body, pleasure the body. I want to make sure before we make

521
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:41,180
this motion that we are Madam City Attorney, I need your advice on this, that the slide that was

522
00:48:41,180 --> 00:48:49,300
presented earlier as it relates to the item on the agenda, that that is now the motion

523
00:48:49,300 --> 00:48:53,240
on the consent agenda relative to that item is that correct?

524
00:48:54,060 --> 00:48:58,700
Yes, and to even make it even more clear, you could make a motion to approve the consent

525
00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:04,300
agenda with the modifications as shown on the slide presented by Ms. Lipscomb.

526
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:05,240
Thank you.

527
00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:07,120
It's going to move.

528
00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:13,360
Device Mayor Moves, Council Member Tugaro, seconds that motion under debate or discussion.

529
00:49:14,300 --> 00:49:21,100
A couple of very quick comments with regard to item 9, the annual housing element, general

530
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:23,740
plan progress report, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

531
00:49:24,540 --> 00:49:32,060
Mr. Van Waugh, thank you, as I understand it, this may be your last city council member,

532
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:33,920
city council meeting, rather.

533
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:43,740
And that you have been recognized and detected by the city of Sunnyvale that they need your services over there very badly.

534
00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:52,180
And we are very proud of you that you're going to go over there and help Sunnyvale become an even better place than it is now.

535
00:49:52,580 --> 00:49:54,880
But you have made Santa Cruz a better place.

536
00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:04,500
Your staff work is consistently exemplary, well thought out, well-reasoned, very well presented to us.

537
00:50:05,020 --> 00:50:13,080
Your accessibility, our ability to contact you, get thoughtful, advising council, we really appreciate it.

538
00:50:13,340 --> 00:50:15,280
Thank you for your service to this community.

539
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:20,220
Very best wishes to you and a continued successful career.

540
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:21,900
Thank you, sir.

541
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:21,960
there.

542
00:50:28,430 --> 00:50:35,770
Slightly more not as happy perhaps, but I think this report is wonderful. It's a very

543
00:50:35,770 --> 00:50:42,750
thoughtful, serious report. I think it does in all of its complexity, which is plenty

544
00:50:42,750 --> 00:50:53,150
of complexity, it gives a very comprehensive picture of how this city has pivoted from one

545
00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:58,890
policy architecture to another motivated by and directed by the state legislature and

546
00:50:58,890 --> 00:51:00,070
the governor to do so.

547
00:51:00,810 --> 00:51:09,130
I do have my continuing question on this item and it is not about how we report to the

548
00:51:09,130 --> 00:51:09,550
state.

549
00:51:10,050 --> 00:51:17,710
This is more about how the state which doesn't show any signs of wanting to slow down its

550
00:51:17,710 --> 00:51:24,170
effort to, as they characterize it, tear down barriers to development. I have asked every

551
00:51:24,170 --> 00:51:30,030
single year and I get the same response from the state every single year, which is, could

552
00:51:30,030 --> 00:51:39,510
they quantify since their basic argument for, since 2017 has been, we need to tear down

553
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:44,930
these barriers to development because they are two things. One, they are an impediment to

554
00:51:44,930 --> 00:51:50,170
development because of just the sheer presence of them and the other one is they are an

555
00:51:50,170 --> 00:51:55,650
impediment because of the time involved and therefore the legislature has sometimes

556
00:51:55,650 --> 00:52:01,750
with a scalpel and sometimes with a sledgehammer pass legislation to try to reduce those.

557
00:52:02,350 --> 00:52:08,530
Underline all of that is the assumption that if you do that, it will reduce the cost of

558
00:52:08,530 --> 00:52:09,090
the product.

559
00:52:09,870 --> 00:52:14,170
There's no other purpose in doing what they've been doing if it doesn't reduce the cost

560
00:52:14,170 --> 00:52:21,290
of the product, in my estimation, and I will ask again that when we send this to the state

561
00:52:21,290 --> 00:52:27,470
of California, I would appreciate it if we would ask them if they can quantify what

562
00:52:27,470 --> 00:52:36,550
these 125 to 150 bills have done to reduce the cost of construction of housing in California.

563
00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:39,470
Mr. Van Waugh, welcome to the microphone.

564
00:52:46,980 --> 00:52:49,200
Thanks again, Mayor, and thanks for your kind words.

565
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:50,420
I really appreciate it.

566
00:52:50,420 --> 00:52:51,480
We will be a user.

567
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,920
And I'll just speak to that point first.

568
00:52:54,380 --> 00:53:00,400
Thank you also, Council, for being such incredible partners and working with my team and planning

569
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,580
and throughout the city to bring forward a number of just really incredible projects.

570
00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:10,700
And that the work we do isn't focused on immediate gratification.

571
00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:19,960
It's thinking 5, 10, 20, 50, hundreds of years from now, you know, generations and I think that's really commendable that we're always thinking in that way.

572
00:53:20,580 --> 00:53:21,460
So thank you again.

573
00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:22,380
Thank you, sir.

574
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:23,260
Oh.

575
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:33,720
As to back to your point, there are very few objective standards when it comes to this as far as the stakeholders.

576
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,560
One of them is inclusionary housing.

577
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:54,380
anything above 15% of the state deems as a potential impediment, and we do have to make additional findings in our annual progress report that speak to why ours, you know, the city of Santa Cruz can be higher than that and why it still works.

578
00:53:54,380 --> 00:53:57,760
Aside from that, I can't think of any other objective standards.

579
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:05,780
It really depends a lot on how the state's feeling about a given impediment that's notified,

580
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:12,700
you know, that's mentioned in the report, and also based on how an individual city is producing

581
00:54:12,700 --> 00:54:15,700
housing and moving their policy objectives forward.

582
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:23,180
So on that standing, Santa Cruz is very strong, and we have a good relationship with HCD, which

583
00:54:23,180 --> 00:54:33,840
is great. And Mr. Van Waal, I want to make sure we're clear on this. I'm not opposing these,

584
00:54:33,860 --> 00:54:41,300
but when we've gone from 100% local authority to something around 15% local authority and all

585
00:54:41,300 --> 00:54:48,920
of that has been premised on the state arguing that because when we had 100% authority, what we did

586
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:55,900
or didn't do, drove the price of housing up because of the time uncertainties, regulatory

587
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:58,540
issues, report issues, whatever it may be.

588
00:54:58,980 --> 00:55:04,540
They pass, like I say, 140 bills in this regard and they apparently want to keep doing that.

589
00:55:05,180 --> 00:55:10,500
My objection isn't that they're doing that, is that their premise has always been, if

590
00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:17,520
you do this, the cost of housing and the pricing of the product will go down or at a minimum

591
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:24,120
By having all of that in place before, it pushed the cost of housing up.

592
00:55:24,980 --> 00:55:31,020
So there is such a thing as the Joint Legislative Audit Committee in Sacramento, the bicameral

593
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:39,680
body of the state legislature, which any legislator can ask for a programmatic audit on any

594
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:40,640
topic they want.

595
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:48,040
And the State Auditor allocates a number of person hours to those legislative requests.

596
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:53,300
I happen to chair that body on two different tours of duty in Sacramento and I was in the

597
00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:53,760
legislature.

598
00:55:54,260 --> 00:55:56,360
They are very serious operation.

599
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,960
I don't think it would be a bad idea at all for the city of Santa Cruz or the League of

600
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:06,260
California cities or some other entity to simply ask them to do what they ask us to do.

601
00:56:06,260 --> 00:56:11,440
And that is to quantify the work that we're doing and provide results to them.

602
00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:20,520
I hope that's an unfair request back to the state because if they've done all of this required us to do all of this.

603
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:33,120
And taken away 85% of our authority under the claim that by doing so we're going to get less expensive housing in the state of California, prove it.

604
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,960
That's all a mask and prove it.

605
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:41,440
We're nine years into this, we're going to keep going through it.

606
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:46,300
You can tell by the dynamics of the legislature they're not finished with this.

607
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,600
And again, my issue isn't that we shouldn't be doing it.

608
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:56,440
It's we can't get away with making assertions without backing it up with data.

609
00:56:56,940 --> 00:56:59,480
And I simply would like them to do the same thing.

610
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,260
They're not going to do it voluntarily.

611
00:57:01,260 --> 00:57:26,420
I would like to see if what we can do is request that when we send this that we also send a request to our legislative delegation asking them to examine the question of whether a request to the joint legislative audit committee to quantify the savings of these dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of bills.

612
00:57:26,420 --> 00:57:31,640
It may be that they can't or it may be that it's very difficult or it may be that it's inaccurate

613
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,120
That's better than what we're hearing now

614
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,080
Which is that we have to keep putting up with this and they don't have to quantify anything

615
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:44,440
So again, none of that is directed to you all of what I'm directing you is a thanks for your good work

616
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,820
Best wishes in the future. Thank you, sir. Thank you

617
00:57:47,820 --> 00:57:51,040
Further on the consent agenda

618
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:57,470
Call the roll. Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me. That's a member gold. Oh

619
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:01,340
I'm sorry.

620
00:58:01,580 --> 00:58:02,400
I call the motion.

621
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:03,020
What's the need?

622
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:04,720
We do have a motion.

623
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:05,200
A second.

624
00:58:05,340 --> 00:58:06,000
I believe we do.

625
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:06,980
We do.

626
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:08,120
Yes.

627
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:09,860
Here and here, I believe.

628
00:58:11,060 --> 00:58:12,780
I believe it's here and here.

629
00:58:13,140 --> 00:58:13,840
Very good.

630
00:58:14,100 --> 00:58:14,560
Thank you.

631
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:15,780
Clerk will call the roll.

632
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:18,950
Councilmember Tregaro.

633
00:58:19,330 --> 00:58:19,490
Aye.

634
00:58:19,790 --> 00:58:19,970
Runner.

635
00:58:20,510 --> 00:58:20,710
Aye.

636
00:58:20,890 --> 00:58:22,230
With a no vote on 15.

637
00:58:23,850 --> 00:58:24,330
Newsom.

638
00:58:24,450 --> 00:58:24,670
Aye.

639
00:58:25,770 --> 00:58:26,250
Boulder.

640
00:58:26,930 --> 00:58:27,190
Aye.

641
00:58:27,630 --> 00:58:27,910
O'Hara.

642
00:58:28,290 --> 00:58:28,490
Aye.

643
00:58:28,490 --> 00:58:30,490
by Smaire Kellentore Johnson.

644
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:31,130
Aye.

645
00:58:31,710 --> 00:58:32,770
And Mary Keeley.

646
00:58:33,050 --> 00:58:33,170
Aye.

647
00:58:34,310 --> 00:58:37,750
Consent Gen is approved and so ordered.

648
00:58:37,930 --> 00:58:40,690
We are on items 17 through 20.

649
00:58:40,690 --> 00:58:42,730
This is a consent public hearing.

650
00:58:43,150 --> 00:58:49,810
What we will be doing is we will do one public hearing on item 17 through 20.

651
00:58:50,070 --> 00:58:54,430
So if you wish to make a comment on any of those items under the public hearing,

652
00:58:54,430 --> 00:58:58,270
and this will be the opportunity for you to do so.

653
00:58:58,810 --> 00:59:01,510
Let me start with the council members again.

654
00:59:01,650 --> 00:59:03,210
This time, council member Tragera,

655
00:59:03,230 --> 00:59:07,030
I'm gonna start over here and go this away on the consent.

656
00:59:07,350 --> 00:59:08,110
Nothing, thank you.

657
00:59:08,170 --> 00:59:08,870
Council member Renner.

658
00:59:09,610 --> 00:59:09,710
No.

659
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:12,970
Council member, madam vice mayor, council member.

660
00:59:13,570 --> 00:59:14,750
Okay, very good.

661
00:59:15,670 --> 00:59:18,350
All right, this will be the opportunity for anyone.

662
00:59:18,670 --> 00:59:23,490
I am opening the public hearing at this point on items 17 through 20.

663
00:59:23,490 --> 00:59:28,870
This would be the opportunity for a comment on any of those items.

664
00:59:28,930 --> 00:59:30,630
Mr. Ewing was at your hand up.

665
00:59:31,450 --> 00:59:31,690
Okay.

666
00:59:32,410 --> 00:59:38,150
Good as you, if there's anyone else who wishes to testify on this item, please come forward,

667
00:59:38,310 --> 00:59:38,410
sir.

668
00:59:39,970 --> 00:59:45,410
And then Mr. Ewing, you'll be right after this gentleman, please come on now.

669
00:59:45,950 --> 00:59:46,490
Here we go.

670
00:59:47,690 --> 00:59:48,550
Good afternoon.

671
00:59:48,730 --> 00:59:49,290
Welcome again.

672
00:59:49,410 --> 00:59:50,230
Good to see you again, sir.

673
00:59:50,350 --> 00:59:51,770
Good afternoon.

674
00:59:51,770 --> 00:59:56,510
Thank you Mayor, City Councilmembers and staff.

675
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:59,970
First of all, thank you Mayor for meeting with me last week.

676
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:26,560
I want to speak to discuss the zoning overlay in the coral street area, and I appreciate that the additional language that was added into 24.10.440, that is kind of a disclaimer, notifying any potential renters or buyers in an area that is industrially zoned, that you might be subject to industry type elements.

677
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:35,100
I do want to kind of call out some of the inconsistencies at least that I saw in some of

678
01:00:35,100 --> 01:00:41,520
the language between the industrial land preservation policy and the 2030 general

679
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:53,740
plan language as it relates to inconsistent uses of industry and housing within the resolution

680
01:00:53,740 --> 01:00:58,020
that you guys have in front of you for the Industrial Land Preservation Policy.

681
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,040
It calls out that the conversion of industrial land to non-employment uses

682
01:01:02,590 --> 01:01:06,380
can result in permanent loss of employment capacity, incompatibility of use,

683
01:01:06,660 --> 01:01:11,360
quality of life, impacts of for residents, limitations of industrial business viability,

684
01:01:11,820 --> 01:01:17,900
and a quote domino effect of additional conversions occurring all as further

685
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:22,520
articulated in the associated September 10, 2024 City Council staff report.

686
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:31,560
And then it also talks about the 2030 general plan industrial land use designation discourages

687
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:32,720
residential development.

688
01:01:33,580 --> 01:01:38,260
So I just want to bring up some of these issues because when you really look at the face

689
01:01:38,260 --> 01:01:48,880
value of zoning laws, the idea of having zoning laws is so you don't have inconsistent uses

690
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:50,520
immediately adjacent to each other.

691
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:59,180
And whether there's impacts now or impacts later, eventually these things will surface.

692
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,920
Grant Rock is an industrial user.

693
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,940
We've been at that location for 60 plus years.

694
01:02:06,580 --> 01:02:08,880
We've been in business for 126 years.

695
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:14,320
We look at our horizon in generations, not in decades.

696
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:23,880
and being in a location that is situated so that we can easily access Highway 1, Highway 9,

697
01:02:24,620 --> 01:02:30,480
and be able to serve this community is critical. The product that we produce primarily at that

698
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:37,440
location currently is concrete. Concrete actually has a life, meaning that once you put it in a truck,

699
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:46,200
If you can't deliver it within about a 20-mile radius, it's going to set up in your truck and then you won't be able to serve the customer.

700
01:02:47,860 --> 01:02:56,760
So as we mentioned, when we talk mayor, you know, future things like traffic, regulation, or need.

701
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,400
A couple extra seconds if you want to finish up there.

702
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:06,220
Yeah, as we develop housing in that area, that doesn't accommodate parking.

703
01:03:06,860 --> 01:03:09,220
That means more people are going to be walking on the streets.

704
01:03:09,660 --> 01:03:12,280
All of our services are truck driven.

705
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,400
They're mixer trucks, they're aggregate trucks, they're flatbed trucks.

706
01:03:16,860 --> 01:03:22,620
We need to be able to maneuver in and out of that area in a timely manner so that we don't

707
01:03:22,620 --> 01:03:24,400
have product that sets up in a truck.

708
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:30,160
So I just want future impacts to be thought about as you're making that decision on this

709
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,980
overlay. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Mr. Young.

710
01:03:43,850 --> 01:03:46,550
Times like Grimmis, I meet

711
01:03:46,550 --> 01:03:50,550
other things. Hey, my name is James Ewing-Witman. I'd like to comment on

712
01:03:51,950 --> 01:03:58,090
for 17 the second and final adoption of ordinance number 2605 sidewalk

713
01:03:58,090 --> 01:04:03,170
vending ordinance updates and number 19 second reading and final adoption of

714
01:04:03,170 --> 01:04:11,550
ordinance number 26-08 to amend municipal co-trapper 24-16 related to affordable housing incentives

715
01:04:11,550 --> 01:04:18,470
and fees and adopt separate council policies related to development review fees, the furls,

716
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:27,590
and waivers. So I suppose to start on the sidewalk vending. You know, most of these rules are here

717
01:04:27,590 --> 01:04:33,330
for public safety and I think they're important and I highly recommend walking down Pacific

718
01:04:33,330 --> 01:04:36,550
and getting some sidewalk vending food because it's really quite delicious.

719
01:04:37,810 --> 01:04:44,890
Now I'm moving to 19 as far as housing incentives.

720
01:04:47,750 --> 01:04:55,590
Yeah I'm reminded of I believe Michael Shaw put a presentation out in 2011 and as far as the agenda

721
01:04:55,590 --> 01:05:02,130
to 2030 stuff and how that relates to the affordable housing and the housing and such

722
01:05:02,130 --> 01:05:09,530
as there are guidelines as I recall that indemnify from liability for various construction

723
01:05:09,530 --> 01:05:10,070
defects.

724
01:05:11,250 --> 01:05:15,850
And I find myself spending some time in a pretty much a brand new building that was put into

725
01:05:15,850 --> 01:05:23,330
operation in final less than a year ago that has a tremendously huge amount of minor but

726
01:05:23,330 --> 01:05:28,190
But consistent defects, it's like, hey, every single toilet you install it, it doesn't

727
01:05:28,190 --> 01:05:28,670
mean code.

728
01:05:28,990 --> 01:05:31,310
How the heck did you guys get away with that?

729
01:05:32,330 --> 01:05:39,530
And easement stuff, which is beyond ridiculous as far as some stuff is going on.

730
01:05:40,990 --> 01:05:47,850
So I suppose I kind of, where this subject should be important to all of us, look at how this

731
01:05:47,850 --> 01:05:54,490
city has being changed with all of these, I don't know, stack them in pack them. I mean, to me,

732
01:05:54,610 --> 01:05:59,590
they're, they're, they're coffins. I mean, they're like that some of these units you get in with

733
01:05:59,590 --> 01:06:04,250
the key fob. You don't have a key to get in the door if the power's off. Not only can you not get in

734
01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:10,710
the door, but none of your utilities work. That could be a problem if we have some kind of a energy

735
01:06:11,470 --> 01:06:16,630
restructuring or something, which is currently what's going on. I don't think it's valid at all.

736
01:06:18,450 --> 01:06:27,210
But as far as, like, let's say low income housing, I believe this unit is, well, 314 Jesse Street,

737
01:06:27,870 --> 01:06:29,210
that's 53 units.

738
01:06:29,930 --> 01:06:34,170
And I think that the corporation that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

739
01:06:35,110 --> 01:06:38,270
I don't know why I'm not remembering the name of it right now.

740
01:06:39,030 --> 01:06:43,250
But Megan, at least $150,000 a week off.

741
01:06:43,250 --> 01:06:43,610
All

742
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,860
right, those incentives are going to end at the end of 2026.

743
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,180
Anyway, thank you very much for your time.

744
01:06:55,900 --> 01:06:56,500
Thank you, sir.

745
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:58,260
Do you have anyone online?

746
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:03,520
We'll take first person online regarding the consent public hearing.

747
01:07:04,220 --> 01:07:06,420
Good afternoon, welcome to the council meeting.

748
01:07:07,060 --> 01:07:07,500
Thank you, Fred.

749
01:07:07,900 --> 01:07:09,260
I'm Riley Snyder again.

750
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:16,220
The sidewalk vending ordinance updates are very interested in seeing some flexibility

751
01:07:16,220 --> 01:07:30,240
with regards to the phenomenon that it maybe got a little bit out of hand because there are a lot of these vendors that make the bacon wrapped hot dogs, but happens to be kind of a favorite treat of mine.

752
01:07:30,900 --> 01:07:38,460
It's a great alternative to, you know, a fast food combo of a burger and fries in a soda.

753
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:46,580
And yeah, I don't know why they kind of, because of the, I guess, the density of the

754
01:07:46,580 --> 01:07:50,080
vendors on Beach Street, they just had to exclude everybody.

755
01:07:50,380 --> 01:07:56,380
And it's a shame when the Warriors won the championship there in San Francisco, that

756
01:07:56,380 --> 01:08:00,560
was actually one of the things when I took a bunch of photos of that celebration.

757
01:08:00,780 --> 01:08:06,480
It was one of the kind of cherish memories from the celebration was simply these portable

758
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:14,560
cards with the with odd dogs and your farmer's market they offer the pressed

759
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,780
watermelon juice which you know you have to pay about ten bucks for if you go

760
01:08:18,780 --> 01:08:22,980
play poker in Vegas at the area and and there it is right on the right on the

761
01:08:22,980 --> 01:08:28,580
street I love it I mean I I'm fortunate to live up in unincorporated areas of the

762
01:08:28,580 --> 01:08:32,740
county where there's very few restrictions on doing that sort of thing when we

763
01:08:32,740 --> 01:08:41,200
had that heat wave in 2024. I just went out with a giant, a big, big giant,

764
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:46,780
clueless full of ice cold gatorade and helped a lot of people out. You know,

765
01:08:46,780 --> 01:08:50,040
it's kind of fun to do it, but you know, asking a little bit of money for it to

766
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:54,880
defray the costs would have been great. I'm looking at the overlay issue with the

767
01:08:54,880 --> 01:09:04,940
the area by the shelter. The general one I spoke before is absolutely correct. One of my,

768
01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:14,760
I guess, main points that makes it so glaringly obvious that there's motives involved beyond

769
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:23,640
altruism with some of these developments is that parking is just absolutely almost completely

770
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:28,960
and utterly neglected. Like the planning for the parking is, you know, what's going to happen

771
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:34,320
when those people have no place to park? Well, they're going to eat up every other option available.

772
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:42,060
It's a phenomenon that you see, you know, they've studied it, you know, academically, and there

773
01:09:42,060 --> 01:09:48,240
have been articles about it how the university does that. The university tends to eat up people's,

774
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,800
you know, financial options. Their financial health suffers because they live near an institution

775
01:09:52,800 --> 01:10:01,760
like UCS, the real glaringly, you know, like the worst egregious example I think in the article

776
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:06,740
was UCSB, but I definitely have experienced that with UCS. Thank you so much.

777
01:10:09,740 --> 01:10:17,140
Anyone else? Next person online? Good afternoon. Welcome to the City Council meeting.

778
01:10:17,140 --> 01:10:23,960
Yes, good afternoon. This was Robison and Feligan. This time I'm commenting on agenda item

779
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:32,700
18 on behalf of Santa Cruz MB. We previously sent in a letter of support for the staff recommendation to move this item forward.

780
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:41,860
And we're happy to see that the city council did adopt most of those recommendations,

781
01:10:41,860 --> 01:10:51,220
conditions, except for the height limits and parking increases that the city council

782
01:10:51,220 --> 01:10:55,240
imposed or imposed that we're not consistent with the staff recommendation.

783
01:10:55,880 --> 01:11:04,880
But regardless, we're happy to see that this policy is moving forward and glad that it's

784
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:06,320
coming up for a second vote.

785
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:15,280
So I did want to comment on the comment that Councilmember O'Hara made at the last hearing

786
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:23,880
regarding the quote-unquote ghettoization of the Coral Street area by allowing increased

787
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:28,460
development of affordable housing and homeless services.

788
01:11:28,620 --> 01:11:33,300
I think it's important for this policy to move forward regardless.

789
01:11:33,300 --> 01:11:47,980
but I understand the interest in having other areas of the city be available to buy right development of shelter services.

790
01:11:48,340 --> 01:12:01,200
So I would encourage the council to in addition to moving the item forward, also bringing back a consideration of expanding this program to include other areas of the city.

791
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:29,180
I think that would be a good way of potentially reducing the impact of any one particular area like Coral Street if there are multiple areas for almost service providers to consider establishing themselves, but I don't think it's appropriate to limit that in the meantime in the Coral Street area because we do need to move these services going forward.

792
01:12:29,180 --> 01:12:34,360
also wanted to mention that the city already has the power to regulate on-street

793
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:40,760
parking that can come in the form of meters or parking permits and the city

794
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,640
should use that power more often in order to regulate that on-street parking

795
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:54,060
because that's the one of the major points of public advocacy that people make

796
01:12:54,060 --> 01:12:59,040
against having housing or other services and it is important to

797
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:04,720
regulate the commons and charge for parking or regulate parking when it's

798
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:11,320
appropriate. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Anyone else? Anyone else

799
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:15,640
with us? Public hearing is closed matters back before the body pleasure of the

800
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,680
body. Councilmember O'Hara. Thank you. I'd like to move the consent

801
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:25,560
public hearing. As a motion is there a second? Second by Councilmember Newsom. Do you

802
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,260
wish to open on your motion? Yeah, just a couple comments. Please do.

803
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:33,520
I'm happy to move forward with all of the items in consent public hearing.

804
01:13:33,660 --> 01:13:38,920
I did want to stop for just a second and reflect on a couple of things with regards to item 18,

805
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:43,520
which has largely been what's talked about in addition to the sidewalk vending ordinance.

806
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:50,800
You know, I did struggle with the first reading to approve the first reading,

807
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,180
and I'm happy to move forward with the second reading and move this forward.

808
01:13:54,180 --> 01:14:07,820
what has happened over the last couple of weeks since the first hearing on this and I think is really well characterized by the fellow who spoke from granite rock.

809
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:17,140
We are really in IC is quite a pickle with Harvey West. It's an area where there's a tremendous amount of opportunity.

810
01:14:17,140 --> 01:14:22,340
It's an area where we have a confluence of many different types of uses.

811
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:26,560
It's adjacent to a public, a huge public open space.

812
01:14:26,980 --> 01:14:33,320
We have our Harvey West Park, which is accessed by hundreds, if not thousands, of families

813
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:38,860
a year, homeless services obviously, is very well concentrated there.

814
01:14:38,860 --> 01:14:48,880
And then all of the industrial and workforce, you know, zoning and the associated use is all

815
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:55,940
concentrated in this area where there is very little access, one access basically out to highway one.

816
01:14:55,940 --> 01:14:59,980
So, I very much empathize with the consideration of the

817
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:28,420
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

818
01:15:28,420 --> 01:15:35,100
thought about the far west side. And so while I have, you know, I'm not interested in adding

819
01:15:35,100 --> 01:15:40,020
anything to the motion at this point, I just want to raise to our attention, our collective

820
01:15:40,020 --> 01:15:45,900
attention that I think Harvey West does need some focus over the next few years to make sure

821
01:15:45,900 --> 01:15:51,940
that we are not one and two in kind of these big development considerations and not thinking about

822
01:15:51,940 --> 01:15:58,200
about the impacts to the industrial use who are public spaces because housing is not

823
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:02,220
going to slow down, I suspect, and I want to make sure that we're thinking about that.

824
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:02,840
Thank you, Mayor.

825
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:04,220
Thank you.

826
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:10,900
Further on this, we have a motion and a second, all debate having ceased, the clerk will

827
01:16:10,900 --> 01:16:11,440
call the roll.

828
01:16:11,440 --> 01:16:11,580
Okay.

829
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:14,800
Council Member Tregero?

830
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:15,240
Aye.

831
01:16:19,580 --> 01:16:21,540
Vice Mayor Kellentore Johnson?

832
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:22,020
Aye.

833
01:16:22,700 --> 01:16:23,220
Mayor Keeley?

834
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:23,760
Aye.

835
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:24,660
Motion passes.

836
01:16:25,020 --> 01:16:29,180
Thank all of you who staff these items, appreciate you, good work on that.

837
01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:32,380
We are on item 21.

838
01:16:37,950 --> 01:16:40,390
Hold on for just one second for me please.

839
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:41,710
Thank you.

840
01:16:41,710 --> 01:16:45,250
Yes, we are an item. Hello, Miss Lecunbach. How are you?

841
01:16:45,890 --> 01:16:54,070
We are on item 21 in ordinance, pertaining to cross-connection control and backflow prevention. We have materials in our packet and we have our

842
01:16:54,070 --> 01:16:58,130
excellent water director in front of us. Good afternoon.

843
01:16:58,510 --> 01:17:01,150
afternoon mayor city council. Howdy looking back water director.

844
01:17:02,030 --> 01:17:11,610
This item it would amend the municipal code as it relates to cross-connection control and backflow protection, and I know we're all wondering what that is.

845
01:17:11,710 --> 01:17:16,030
in the city of Santa Cruz. I have just a few slides to show you what that is and kind of describe

846
01:17:16,030 --> 01:17:24,170
the importance and value and impact to staff in implementing this new regulation. So the

847
01:17:24,170 --> 01:17:29,510
device you see on the right hand side of this green is a backflow device and we put those in to

848
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:37,170
protect our public water system from whatever happens private side. This particular one is a

849
01:17:37,170 --> 01:17:40,790
fire service, and I think you're going to recognize almost all of these as they're situated

850
01:17:40,790 --> 01:17:45,570
around City Hall and those surrounding blocks, and I suspect as you drive around, you're

851
01:17:45,570 --> 01:17:48,690
going to be seeing these all over the place now because they're going to be top of mine.

852
01:17:49,810 --> 01:17:56,750
They come in red, which are fire ones protecting, again, the city's water system from anything

853
01:17:56,750 --> 01:18:03,750
that happens on site, the main green, which protects us from irrigation kerfuffles that happen

854
01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:08,890
on the property side. They come in red and green on the left hand side and that was a little bit

855
01:18:08,890 --> 01:18:13,870
curious because it's for irrigation but I don't see anything to be irrigated in that particular

856
01:18:13,870 --> 01:18:20,210
property. And they come in blue which is for drinking water. And again, if you have a high rice

857
01:18:20,210 --> 01:18:25,510
building, we're going to put a blue one in so that nothing inside the building comes back into the

858
01:18:25,510 --> 01:18:32,650
water system. The water department like every water agency meets state and federal regulations with

859
01:18:33,370 --> 01:18:39,110
Managing back, we do on-site surveillance to understand what the use is, we put in the

860
01:18:39,110 --> 01:18:44,370
backflow device as required, we manage and test over 3,000 of them every year.

861
01:18:45,310 --> 01:18:51,030
We are in complete compliance until the new regulation came out, which gives us 10 years

862
01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:55,030
to address these, you will see these in the sidewalk.

863
01:18:56,490 --> 01:19:01,090
What this is is a fire service to a private residence, but the backflow device is about

864
01:19:01,090 --> 01:19:07,150
two feet underground. Based on risk assessment by the state, this was a standard practice for

865
01:19:07,150 --> 01:19:13,390
protecting the water system from private side. Contamination during a fire and now the state has

866
01:19:13,390 --> 01:19:19,470
decided that this does pose a risk. So within the next 10 years, we have to dig all of these out,

867
01:19:19,570 --> 01:19:24,690
which most of them are in sidewalks in our neighborhoods and replace them with an above-ground

868
01:19:24,690 --> 01:19:30,230
testable device. So going forward, the water department would be testing more than 6,000 of these

869
01:19:30,230 --> 01:19:35,050
devices. We're still trying to figure out where to put them because we can't have these

870
01:19:35,050 --> 01:19:39,970
all on the sidewalk so they likely be up at the building and we're trying to figure out

871
01:19:39,970 --> 01:19:46,310
how to fund them and resource them from a staff perspective. So what may come before you

872
01:19:46,310 --> 01:19:52,070
next is a request for a new position in the water department simply to address this new issue.

873
01:19:52,450 --> 01:19:57,650
But in the meantime we're outwearing compliance. We've been in compliance since 1983 and we have

874
01:19:57,650 --> 01:20:01,310
a very safe and secure water system because of devices like this.

875
01:20:04,020 --> 01:20:05,460
Happy with the recommendation.

876
01:20:08,310 --> 01:20:09,150
Questions or comments?

877
01:20:11,370 --> 01:20:12,710
Not everybody at once though.

878
01:20:13,250 --> 01:20:13,910
That is gripping.

879
01:20:14,210 --> 01:20:15,890
All right, here's, thank you.

880
01:20:16,210 --> 01:20:20,320
I'm going to, are there questions coming?

881
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:22,940
Anybody who's with us have questions or comments?

882
01:20:24,460 --> 01:20:26,440
Matters back for the body, pleasure of the body.

883
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:27,820
Excuse me.

884
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:28,960
Oh, I'm sorry.

885
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:30,520
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

886
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:31,980
which in person online, good afternoon.

887
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,020
Welcome, comment on item 21.

888
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:40,140
Well, I think that this item is not well explained

889
01:20:40,140 --> 01:20:42,280
because if you read the text of the item,

890
01:20:42,700 --> 01:20:46,140
it says the city intends to perform a system wide hazard

891
01:20:46,140 --> 01:20:48,740
assessment of every single water customer's property

892
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:51,400
over 24,000 service connections.

893
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,860
And it's my understanding this is not a requirement

894
01:20:54,860 --> 01:20:56,760
of the new CDCPH regulations.

895
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,500
It's just your idea.

896
01:20:58,500 --> 01:21:00,920
if I understand those stated intentions.

897
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:03,460
I would mention requiring physical inspection

898
01:21:03,460 --> 01:21:05,700
of every single connection manually or even once,

899
01:21:05,980 --> 01:21:07,940
is logistically impractical.

900
01:21:07,940 --> 01:21:10,140
And as far as I can tell, not mandated.

901
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:14,180
I mean, I understand about the fire in big buildings

902
01:21:14,180 --> 01:21:16,280
and like that, but when you're talking residents,

903
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:17,820
those are very low risk.

904
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:19,720
And instead of what you propose,

905
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:21,700
many public water systems use surveys,

906
01:21:22,100 --> 01:21:24,940
customer self-reporting, change of ownership triggers,

907
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,300
high hazard prioritization, and random spot checks

908
01:21:28,300 --> 01:21:34,320
to manage the program efficiently. Again, local public water systems could adopt more stringent

909
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:39,500
rules, but the statewide CCCPH standard, as far as I know, doesn't impose universal inspections

910
01:21:39,500 --> 01:21:44,720
of every single connection. If you're talking garden hoses, I mean, for the last time, a residential

911
01:21:45,660 --> 01:21:50,540
residence poisoned the water system for lack of a garden hose backlog device, specifics please.

912
01:21:52,180 --> 01:21:56,280
You know, oh, man, this is not too relevant, but I do note that the final

913
01:21:56,280 --> 01:22:01,100
clean ordinance document tax isn't the same as the black text remaining in the

914
01:22:01,100 --> 01:22:04,740
red light version for possibly the reason my understanding of the wise and

915
01:22:04,740 --> 01:22:08,880
logic of how the government works is insufficient. This all sounds costly

916
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:12,900
versus actual benefit and I sure hope you aren't planning another unjustified

917
01:22:12,900 --> 01:22:17,540
useless fee windfall somehow with working into it as nobody needs that

918
01:22:17,540 --> 01:22:22,760
aggravation. Anyway I'll skip the rest of this said that's why I have to say thanks

919
01:22:23,500 --> 01:22:24,180
Well, thank you.

920
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:30,300
Just looking back, if I could ask you to, on one of the core comments are sort of a

921
01:22:30,300 --> 01:22:32,820
requirement versus whether this was your idea.

922
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:36,920
Maybe you could enlighten us in that regard.

923
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:37,580
Yeah.

924
01:22:37,780 --> 01:22:45,320
The state developed a new handbook and they are addressing what they perceive to be the

925
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:49,360
risk, which is the two-inch fire service for largely single-family homes.

926
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:55,300
It is a requirement, a straight requirement, so we will have to go out in the next 10 years

927
01:22:55,300 --> 01:23:00,180
and demonstrate, and it's not even 10 years, I think it's 2034 at this point, and demonstrate

928
01:23:00,180 --> 01:23:02,360
that we have addressed all of those.

929
01:23:03,260 --> 01:23:09,060
And furthermore, with respect to the property by property surveillance, today we typically

930
01:23:09,060 --> 01:23:16,080
do that with change of occupancy and use for a property, and we can evaluate through

931
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:19,940
their building permits what the activity is going to be and then assess the risk.

932
01:23:20,540 --> 01:23:24,460
And this new requirement is that we have to go property by property.

933
01:23:24,900 --> 01:23:29,700
I suspect it will be something a little bit more routine that all single family homes are

934
01:23:29,700 --> 01:23:36,400
chunked out and dismissed, but when you get to commercial and industrial, those will be

935
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:40,240
a larger lift and a requirement of the state, the new sewer legislation.

936
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:41,360
Thank you so much.

937
01:23:41,980 --> 01:23:43,260
So for the comment,

938
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:47,120
we'll call the roll.

939
01:23:52,700 --> 01:23:57,780
I'm sorry, excuse me, I thought that we had that motion, but I'm happy to move the item,

940
01:23:57,780 --> 01:23:58,060
please.

941
01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:00,620
Motion is second by the vice mayor.

942
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:04,060
Look, we'll call the roll.

943
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:06,720
No, some members.

944
01:24:06,900 --> 01:24:07,220
Trigaro.

945
01:24:07,540 --> 01:24:07,700
Aye.

946
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:08,260
Runner.

947
01:24:08,660 --> 01:24:08,820
Aye.

948
01:24:09,620 --> 01:24:09,960
Newsom.

949
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:10,320
Aye.

950
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:11,180
Holder.

951
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:11,560
Aye.

952
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:12,480
O'Hara.

953
01:24:12,740 --> 01:24:12,860
Aye.

954
01:24:13,140 --> 01:24:14,420
Vice Mayor Kellan Tarjonson.

955
01:24:14,580 --> 01:24:14,740
Aye.

956
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:15,540
Mayor Kaylee.

957
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:16,200
Aye.

958
01:24:16,860 --> 01:24:18,020
Motion passes ensorted.

959
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:36,700
We are an item 22. This is Lighthouse Point Hazard and Engineering Analysis. We have our very talented public works department director and assistant public works director to present on this item and more than a little bit of paperwork in our agenda packets.

960
01:24:36,700 --> 01:24:39,760
I'm starting to win. Good afternoon. Thank you for your good work.

961
01:24:40,460 --> 01:24:43,800
Good afternoon, Mayor, City Council, Nathan Wynn, Director of Public Works.

962
01:24:44,660 --> 01:24:49,600
I just wanted to start off by thanking Council and the community for their patience as we've

963
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:55,840
worked to bring forth a light house point study. It's taken some time to develop the scope of work

964
01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:03,920
as well as select a consultant team that we are excited with. Environmental Science Associates,

965
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:09,200
specific cross-engineering as well as integral consulting, all with extensive local knowledge.

966
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,120
They've done great work for us in the past and so we're happy to try to move them forward with

967
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:19,540
this work. With the completion of the 50-year Westcliffe vision as well as the five-year road map,

968
01:25:20,140 --> 01:25:27,380
as well as the restoration of the 900 and 1000 block, we're moving now from a reactive process

969
01:25:27,380 --> 01:25:33,800
to a proactive effort on managing our coastline and so while studies have been performed in the

970
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:37,000
pass, which will be utilized in this study.

971
01:25:37,740 --> 01:25:39,580
It's important that we collect current data.

972
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:43,540
Again, we want to be able to utilize modernized tools

973
01:25:43,540 --> 01:25:45,240
on evaluating our coastline.

974
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:47,860
And really ultimately, this study will allow us to work

975
01:25:47,860 --> 01:25:50,520
with our regulators, with our funding partners,

976
01:25:51,060 --> 01:25:52,420
and having that current information

977
01:25:52,420 --> 01:25:55,000
and so that we can seek regulatory permits

978
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,000
as well as grant funding in the future.

979
01:25:57,560 --> 01:25:59,380
And so kind of with that, I'm going to hand it off

980
01:25:59,380 --> 01:26:00,680
to Kevin Cross, the city engineer,

981
01:26:00,980 --> 01:26:02,220
to dive more into the study.

982
01:26:02,860 --> 01:26:03,460
Thank you.

983
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:07,140
Mr. Crossley, good afternoon.

984
01:26:07,260 --> 01:26:08,480
Thank you for your good work.

985
01:26:09,540 --> 01:26:10,340
Thank you.

986
01:26:10,460 --> 01:26:13,740
With the Mayor's blessing, I'd like to share a little personal anecdote before I get

987
01:26:13,740 --> 01:26:17,980
into the technical pieces of this, but again, it's given.

988
01:26:18,820 --> 01:26:21,400
So excuse me, got a frog in my throat.

989
01:26:22,900 --> 01:26:26,660
I had the rare opportunity a few months ago to go on a hike about myself.

990
01:26:26,660 --> 01:26:32,200
I have two kids, so that's a unique thing, and I was in San Luis Obispo, which is a

991
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:38,400
beautiful community and so I found myself at the top of this this mountain with a 360 panoramic view

992
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:44,420
the you know the area that San Luis of Israel sits in and I thought to myself what a boring place

993
01:26:44,420 --> 01:26:50,460
to be the city engineer there's no coastline there's no rivers there's no there's no landslides to deal

994
01:26:50,460 --> 01:26:56,720
with and not to be critical of them I'm sure they do lots of interesting work as well but I just want

995
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:01,300
to say on a personal level this is the type of kind of work that it keeps me up at night but it also keeps

996
01:27:01,300 --> 01:27:04,980
to continue working and doing great things for our community.

997
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:05,640
Thank you.

998
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:06,900
Thank you for sharing that.

999
01:27:09,380 --> 01:27:14,040
So I think the modern story of Lighthouse Point for the purposes of this study,

1000
01:27:14,380 --> 01:27:16,920
discussion today starts in the early 80s.

1001
01:27:17,460 --> 01:27:20,460
These black and white photos, hard to tell when they were taken,

1002
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:25,380
but it was right after the large on the EU events that happened in the 82 and 83 winters

1003
01:27:25,380 --> 01:27:28,020
that created a lot of damage at that area.

1004
01:27:28,020 --> 01:27:28,120
Yeah.

1005
01:27:28,460 --> 01:27:33,760
And so that precipitated the study that Nathan alluded to earlier put together by Rogers

1006
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:34,920
Johnson Associates.

1007
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:39,560
So that was the first sort of modern cut it, you know, what to do about erosion in this

1008
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:41,320
area and what are the options.

1009
01:27:41,620 --> 01:27:46,040
And ultimately what the city elected to do was build the biggest seawall that we have

1010
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:51,540
along Westcliffe, which runs from its beach around the KVC in the second photo.

1011
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:55,600
That wasn't the end of our sort of investigation of this area.

1012
01:27:55,600 --> 01:28:00,460
There's been a couple surveys that were completed over the years in response to ongoing erosion

1013
01:28:00,460 --> 01:28:05,780
in the C-caves. And then, fast forward, this is a photo from late last year in the lower right corner,

1014
01:28:05,780 --> 01:28:12,620
which gives a nice perspective of the ongoing C-cave erosion that looks like it's aimed right at

1015
01:28:12,620 --> 01:28:19,560
the lighthouse, which is an obvious concern for us. And so, about a week ago, we did an open house

1016
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:25,100
for the public works department to talk about all the projects with the community. And I got to answer

1017
01:28:25,100 --> 01:28:30,680
some questions about this study. And the number one question is, is this CKV going to swallow

1018
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:38,600
up that lighthouse? And the answer is not anytime soon. We resurveyed the area in 2026,

1019
01:28:39,220 --> 01:28:45,240
beginning of the year. And key findings there were that the two caves were calling them the West

1020
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:52,140
Cave and the East Cave very creative. They are about 20 feet of separation bedrock material between

1021
01:28:52,140 --> 01:28:57,720
them. So the caves are not going to connect in the immediate near term. We're going to investigate

1022
01:28:57,720 --> 01:29:02,900
what that array of erosion looks like and when that potentially could happen. Most notably,

1023
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:10,000
the West C cave, which is shown on the left of this image, is about 40 feet away from the lighthouse

1024
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:17,160
foundation. So what that says to us is that while there is very evident erosion happening in this

1025
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:22,380
location, it's not going to present a near-term risk to the

1026
01:29:22,380 --> 01:29:26,360
circuit museum, the lighthouse or the paths. So, that's the key findings there.

1027
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:34,700
The next, oh, this is my opportunity to dork out on the technology we used, which was

1028
01:29:34,700 --> 01:29:39,780
a newer drone technology that allowed us to do a lot of really cool scanning of this area,

1029
01:29:40,380 --> 01:29:44,780
create a 3D model that we'll be using as an input to this study. Incredible amount of

1030
01:29:44,780 --> 01:29:46,680
data was collected in like a four-hour period.

1031
01:29:46,980 --> 01:29:49,540
So just between the intervals of surveys,

1032
01:29:50,060 --> 01:29:53,260
technology is advanced in really significant ways

1033
01:29:53,260 --> 01:29:55,180
that's gonna help us leverage these tools

1034
01:29:55,180 --> 01:29:56,740
for some additional modeling

1035
01:29:56,740 --> 01:29:58,540
that I'll talk about a little bit later.

1036
01:30:02,260 --> 01:30:09,040
So, the second set of questions I get started with a statement usually, which is, please install

1037
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:18,200
armoring, what's the plan? Or please don't install armoring, what's the plan? And so, my response

1038
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:23,120
to that was, I don't know what we're doing, that's the point of the study. And so, we're

1039
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:28,360
going to be looking at the different safety risks that are out there. We're going to talk

1040
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:34,560
focus on the bluffs and their dynamic failure modes and then help us figure

1041
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:37,920
out what some short-term long-term strategies could be for this area.

1042
01:30:41,500 --> 01:30:42,040
The scope

1043
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:47,000
of work summarized is gather existing information, do some data collection

1044
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:51,480
through additional field collection with Pacific press engineering and other

1045
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:56,920
sub-consultants, define all the conditions and risk in an updated profile and

1046
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:00,940
then we'll get into the alternatives. What are we going to do? We think the

1047
01:31:00,940 --> 01:31:04,600
The alternative step after we've sort of brainstormed and gotten those all written down

1048
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:09,120
would be an excellent touch point for the community to run an open house in the late summer

1049
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:14,500
early fall, share that information, gather some input, and then help use that to shortlist

1050
01:31:14,500 --> 01:31:18,260
our alternatives that we would analyze for feasibility and potential recommendation.

1051
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:22,380
And that all gets buttoned up in a nice report that we would bring back to you in about

1052
01:31:22,380 --> 01:31:22,600
a year.

1053
01:31:25,420 --> 01:31:28,220
So these are the hope outcomes of this process.

1054
01:31:28,220 --> 01:31:33,660
We want to identify some alternatives, figure out what those advantages, constraints and

1055
01:31:33,660 --> 01:31:39,540
feasibilities are, help communicate what our thinking is to the public, provide a technical

1056
01:31:39,540 --> 01:31:41,620
basis for potential actions.

1057
01:31:43,100 --> 01:31:48,100
I think this graphic that I pulled out of the 50-year vision really speaks to the need to operate

1058
01:31:48,100 --> 01:31:52,400
within the real-world constraints of the jurisdictional regulatory, financial, and environmental

1059
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:54,420
standards that we have to operate in.

1060
01:31:54,420 --> 01:31:58,720
We don't get to do projects in a vacuum here, so there are these real world boundaries

1061
01:31:58,720 --> 01:32:00,220
that we have to work with in.

1062
01:32:01,060 --> 01:32:04,840
And then finally, that final report is intended to help inform our decision-making.

1063
01:32:05,420 --> 01:32:07,820
So I went through that pretty quick.

1064
01:32:08,540 --> 01:32:11,040
Here's the recommendation in front of you, and we have to take any questions.

1065
01:32:13,290 --> 01:32:15,290
Comps, remember, goalers, recognize.

1066
01:32:16,310 --> 01:32:17,430
Thank you so much.

1067
01:32:17,530 --> 01:32:23,690
I appreciate the complexity around this issue, and I know Jebra and I have been out there several

1068
01:32:23,690 --> 01:32:24,010
times.

1069
01:32:24,010 --> 01:32:30,090
we've met with a number of community members. And so just to reiterate, do you know how many regulatory

1070
01:32:30,090 --> 01:32:36,990
agencies we would have to go through in order to, if we got the finances, build a cave or do

1071
01:32:36,990 --> 01:32:39,890
something with the cave? That's one that I've been trying to make clear.

1072
01:32:41,290 --> 01:32:44,130
Oh, that's hard to answer off the shop on my head, but all of them.

1073
01:32:45,610 --> 01:32:49,690
Thank you. Thank you. That is one that I just want everyone in the public to hear. And then I just

1074
01:32:49,690 --> 01:32:54,130
just want to reiterate my gratitude for you bringing this forward and I think looking

1075
01:32:54,130 --> 01:32:56,450
at this issue, I know it's an important place to everybody.

1076
01:32:56,810 --> 01:32:58,390
We hear it wherever we go.

1077
01:32:59,170 --> 01:33:03,950
So you know, I'm excited to see what comes up the study and what we decided to do next.

1078
01:33:04,130 --> 01:33:04,330
Thank you.

1079
01:33:05,030 --> 01:33:05,550
Thank you.

1080
01:33:06,030 --> 01:33:07,270
Device mayors recognized.

1081
01:33:08,290 --> 01:33:08,590
Yes.

1082
01:33:08,750 --> 01:33:10,610
Thank you so much for the work so far.

1083
01:33:12,790 --> 01:33:18,630
This has been, the community has been long time waiting and anticipation of what will come

1084
01:33:18,630 --> 01:33:18,970
next.

1085
01:33:18,970 --> 01:33:22,330
So I appreciate this action that's before us today.

1086
01:33:23,150 --> 01:33:27,550
A couple of questions in the staff report.

1087
01:33:27,930 --> 01:33:30,170
There's mentioned that there would be community engagement.

1088
01:33:32,910 --> 01:33:36,650
Along with, I think the shoreline adaptation community engagement.

1089
01:33:36,650 --> 01:33:40,790
Can you just say more about what that community engagement looks like?

1090
01:33:40,970 --> 01:33:41,950
Do we have specific dates?

1091
01:33:42,250 --> 01:33:44,210
How will that be communicated to the public?

1092
01:33:44,930 --> 01:33:48,810
We don't have specific dates that I'm aware for the shoreline adaptation management plans.

1093
01:33:48,810 --> 01:33:53,030
which is a parallel effort happening, being led by Dr. Tiffany Wise West.

1094
01:33:53,270 --> 01:33:57,890
We're in regular coordination on the timing of the two efforts, and our hope is if the schedules

1095
01:33:57,890 --> 01:34:05,310
will sync up in a way that provides for a common touch point. It's a little bit hard to say exactly

1096
01:34:05,310 --> 01:34:10,750
if we'll make that happen, but our plan is to have something to share when she brings that information

1097
01:34:10,750 --> 01:34:15,450
out for the shoreline adaptation and management plans, and then potentially a more focused

1098
01:34:15,450 --> 01:34:19,910
open-house style setting for this particular set of work.

1099
01:34:20,510 --> 01:34:20,690
Okay.

1100
01:34:22,350 --> 01:34:27,510
What is our plan for outreach and communication to members of the community?

1101
01:34:27,710 --> 01:34:31,950
In particular, there's Council Member Golder said, specific groups that have reached out

1102
01:34:31,950 --> 01:34:33,670
to us and been in touch with us.

1103
01:34:33,790 --> 01:34:34,970
Do we have a plan?

1104
01:34:35,070 --> 01:34:36,850
Are we going to work with our communications team?

1105
01:34:37,590 --> 01:34:37,730
Yes.

1106
01:34:37,930 --> 01:34:43,490
We have an in coordination with our communications team, and for example, before this item was

1107
01:34:43,490 --> 01:34:48,230
place on the agenda we sent out an email to the Westcliffe contact list that our communication

1108
01:34:48,230 --> 01:34:48,770
teams have.

1109
01:34:48,770 --> 01:34:48,990
Okay.

1110
01:34:49,190 --> 01:34:53,510
Is the way to elevate awareness, the item was coming before you today?

1111
01:34:54,010 --> 01:34:54,110
Okay.

1112
01:34:54,430 --> 01:34:54,650
Great.

1113
01:34:55,450 --> 01:34:58,930
So you'll come back to Council in about a year's time.

1114
01:35:00,050 --> 01:35:06,530
Will there be other touch points with the Council before that final report is complete?

1115
01:35:07,890 --> 01:35:09,270
That you know of right now?

1116
01:35:09,650 --> 01:35:13,210
Other than the open house, no, we haven't identified any at this point.

1117
01:35:13,210 --> 01:35:20,930
Then maybe myself and Councilmember Golder who have been working on this, we can not form

1118
01:35:20,930 --> 01:35:24,710
an ad hoc committee as someone I'm saying, but we can stay in touch on a regular basis

1119
01:35:24,710 --> 01:35:31,130
so that we're not hearing back about the progress and what the analysis shows in a year.

1120
01:35:32,070 --> 01:35:35,390
So will reach out to you, you'll reach out to us, we'll stay connected that way.

1121
01:35:35,390 --> 01:35:42,730
Okay. As part of the analysis, I know you said they will, the consultants will be looking

1122
01:35:42,730 --> 01:35:50,750
at costs. As they're looking at costs, will they be providing any financial sort of modeling

1123
01:35:50,750 --> 01:35:59,570
options for us or financing, not financial modeling, financing modeling options for us to consider

1124
01:35:59,570 --> 01:36:04,990
as we look at what the solutions that were my question making sense?

1125
01:36:05,630 --> 01:36:10,010
Yes. We're going to be looking at pretty high-level concepts.

1126
01:36:10,530 --> 01:36:15,070
With that comes limitations on how specific and detailed you can get into the cost estimating.

1127
01:36:15,250 --> 01:36:22,290
But our intention was to integrate costs in a way that helped us provide a meaningful comparison against different alternatives.

1128
01:36:22,690 --> 01:36:25,090
So that became part of the decision process.

1129
01:36:25,530 --> 01:36:28,290
and then we've been working with the city manager's office.

1130
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:32,010
They're currently working on a financing study for Westcliffe.

1131
01:36:32,150 --> 01:36:34,390
And so the hope was that we would be far enough along

1132
01:36:34,390 --> 01:36:37,430
in this study to use the information from this work

1133
01:36:37,430 --> 01:36:40,510
as an input to their overall financial planning process.

1134
01:36:41,210 --> 01:36:41,310
Great.

1135
01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:45,450
And when we, when you come back to this

1136
01:36:45,450 --> 01:36:48,390
in about a year's time, it's at that point

1137
01:36:48,390 --> 01:36:50,370
that we will be given some options around

1138
01:36:50,370 --> 01:36:52,390
like house point in the CKs,

1139
01:36:52,530 --> 01:36:54,310
and we will be making some kind of a decision

1140
01:36:54,310 --> 01:36:57,930
about what to move forward, how to move forward, okay, just want to be clear.

1141
01:36:58,430 --> 01:37:02,250
And then I know you already said this, but I want to just have you say it again,

1142
01:37:03,170 --> 01:37:08,730
because some members of the community groups that we've talked to have talked about how urgent

1143
01:37:08,730 --> 01:37:15,270
this issue is, and it is an urgent issue. Part of the concern is that the lighthouse itself is

1144
01:37:15,270 --> 01:37:20,290
going to fall into the ocean because there's so much erosion happening so quickly. I would like to hear

1145
01:37:20,290 --> 01:37:25,070
from you again, that that is not the case in this moment. It is eroding, but we don't

1146
01:37:25,070 --> 01:37:33,450
see an immediate threat, excuse me, of the lighthouse collapsing anytime in the next 12

1147
01:37:33,450 --> 01:37:33,910
months.

1148
01:37:34,630 --> 01:37:38,830
No, we don't foresee any risk to the lighthouse in the next 12 months, or even five or

1149
01:37:38,830 --> 01:37:39,230
ten years.

1150
01:37:39,770 --> 01:37:44,750
Okay. Okay. Those are my questions. Thank you so much for the work, and I look forward to

1151
01:37:44,750 --> 01:37:48,210
keeping the conversation going over the next 12 months.

1152
01:37:49,830 --> 01:37:51,470
Councilmember here is recognized.

1153
01:37:51,850 --> 01:37:52,330
Thank you, Mayor.

1154
01:37:52,690 --> 01:37:53,490
Thank you, Kevin.

1155
01:37:53,590 --> 01:37:58,590
I really appreciate the work on this, and I am in support of the direction.

1156
01:37:58,730 --> 01:38:03,150
I do have one observation, and then probably very inarticulate question.

1157
01:38:04,530 --> 01:38:09,910
I think what the Vice Mayor is getting to is an important thing to reiterate about the

1158
01:38:09,910 --> 01:38:13,170
the risks associated with erosion right now,

1159
01:38:13,170 --> 01:38:15,430
but I don't think we would have said 10 years ago

1160
01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:17,910
that we would have seen West Cliff fall into the ocean.

1161
01:38:18,670 --> 01:38:18,770
Right?

1162
01:38:18,970 --> 01:38:22,090
So it's hard to know, you know?

1163
01:38:22,310 --> 01:38:26,830
So I think we have a good sense of where the caves are

1164
01:38:26,830 --> 01:38:30,790
and how much bedrock is between the two caves,

1165
01:38:31,110 --> 01:38:33,450
I think it is hard to fully predict,

1166
01:38:33,510 --> 01:38:36,250
just given where we're at with climate change

1167
01:38:36,250 --> 01:38:42,530
and storm surges, what erosion is going to look like for the next five or 10 years, but I appreciate

1168
01:38:43,410 --> 01:38:50,970
the comments on that. The alternative analysis or the assessment, I think you had in the slides

1169
01:38:50,970 --> 01:38:55,730
wave dynamics, and I just wanted to kind of put on record, or at least maybe ask a question,

1170
01:38:56,910 --> 01:39:05,110
how will the engineers be contemplating the quality of the wave at the lane? Because I imagine

1171
01:39:05,110 --> 01:39:07,830
in that these alternatives that come forward

1172
01:39:08,190 --> 01:39:11,290
will potentially impact the wave dynamics,

1173
01:39:12,530 --> 01:39:15,370
but the subjective objective,

1174
01:39:15,490 --> 01:39:17,530
whatever it falls within that spectrum,

1175
01:39:18,010 --> 01:39:20,430
quality of this role-class wave,

1176
01:39:21,110 --> 01:39:24,590
is also, I think, necessary to be part of the discussion.

1177
01:39:24,890 --> 01:39:27,290
So how would that happen work?

1178
01:39:28,670 --> 01:39:30,670
That's a really hard question to answer.

1179
01:39:32,070 --> 01:39:32,770
I'll say this.

1180
01:39:32,770 --> 01:39:36,510
Yes, we have quite a bit of our scope devoted to modeling.

1181
01:39:37,110 --> 01:39:42,270
What happens if you change X, what happens to Y over here with the wave breaks, how the

1182
01:39:42,270 --> 01:39:47,090
wave breaks, what the peel angle will be, accounting for a lot of other variables that don't

1183
01:39:47,090 --> 01:39:50,510
have that much to do with erosion like sea level rise, for example.

1184
01:39:51,310 --> 01:39:57,150
And so that's not an easy question to ask and answer, but I feel that we've assembled the

1185
01:39:57,150 --> 01:39:59,450
best team possible to dig into that question.

1186
01:40:00,550 --> 01:40:05,570
We were lucky enough with the USA to find that their project manager is a surfer from

1187
01:40:05,570 --> 01:40:10,690
Half Moon Bay, so I feel like he's got a personal stake and investment in this project.

1188
01:40:11,890 --> 01:40:17,150
So that's my best kind of non-answer to your question, but I do think that we're trying

1189
01:40:17,150 --> 01:40:22,590
to really dig into those hard questions so that we bring forward a defensible and data-driven

1190
01:40:23,210 --> 01:40:23,770
recommendation.

1191
01:40:24,410 --> 01:40:30,890
Yeah, thanks. And I expected your answer to be exactly like that. And it's nearly an

1192
01:40:30,890 --> 01:40:35,730
impossible consideration, but I just really want to make sure that we are keeping it top

1193
01:40:35,730 --> 01:40:39,790
of mind. And I know that we are, but I wanted the community to understand that we understand

1194
01:40:39,790 --> 01:40:45,450
we have a world-class surf break here. We understand that this erosion potentially could be impacting

1195
01:40:46,010 --> 01:40:52,110
that surf break. I mean, it is a huge driver for our local economy. It is the cultural, one

1196
01:40:52,110 --> 01:40:57,190
of the most important cultural aspects of our community, and so a lot rides on this work

1197
01:40:57,190 --> 01:41:04,290
that we're doing, no pun intended on their surfboards. So I really appreciate the direction

1198
01:41:04,290 --> 01:41:12,670
that we're going. I understand where we're at in terms of just the complexity of even if we have

1199
01:41:12,670 --> 01:41:18,450
concepts of what we can do and we have funding to do it, the amount of bureaucratic hurdles that

1200
01:41:18,450 --> 01:41:21,630
are going to be required to do this work is significant.

1201
01:41:22,450 --> 01:41:24,010
So this is the first step, and I really

1202
01:41:24,010 --> 01:41:25,970
look forward to the work that's coming forward.

1203
01:41:26,110 --> 01:41:26,510
Thank you.

1204
01:41:26,810 --> 01:41:27,110
Any

1205
01:41:30,530 --> 01:41:31,130
comments from members?

1206
01:41:32,670 --> 01:41:33,590
Anybody else on this?

1207
01:41:34,170 --> 01:41:35,010
We'll go out to the public.

1208
01:41:35,130 --> 01:41:35,990
Anybody out in public?

1209
01:41:36,170 --> 01:41:37,330
Wish a comment on this item.

1210
01:41:37,850 --> 01:41:39,670
Please come forward if you wish to do so.

1211
01:41:39,810 --> 01:41:40,770
Do we have anyone online?

1212
01:41:41,330 --> 01:41:42,150
We'll take you, sir.

1213
01:41:42,290 --> 01:41:43,230
Good afternoon and welcome.

1214
01:41:44,970 --> 01:41:47,310
We'll free up the microphone in just a moment.

1215
01:41:47,530 --> 01:41:49,190
Did you wish to add to your answer, sir?

1216
01:41:50,770 --> 01:41:56,830
Mr. Crossway. No, but maybe now's the time to point out that the slide that I showed you with

1217
01:41:56,830 --> 01:42:01,710
the recommendation, I clipped out the key piece, but there was more language in the staff report.

1218
01:42:01,970 --> 01:42:06,790
So just for the record, we would like you to approve the full recommendation, not just the version

1219
01:42:06,790 --> 01:42:11,590
that was on screen. We'll get back to that. Thank you. Good afternoon, sir. Welcome to City Council.

1220
01:42:11,590 --> 01:42:12,030
from meeting.

1221
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:18,540
Hi, Mayor Keeling, Councilmembers and public works.

1222
01:42:18,700 --> 01:42:19,380
Thank you very much.

1223
01:42:19,380 --> 01:42:24,040
I'm Sean Burns with Save the Waves and here just to say my support for this project

1224
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:28,040
and thank you for the city for investing in a community epicenter.

1225
01:42:29,280 --> 01:42:34,780
Steam relaying as a world class wave, I love the question about the way of quality.

1226
01:42:34,940 --> 01:42:39,500
So I was excited to see with integral consulting during some wave quality modeling with this

1227
01:42:39,500 --> 01:42:41,240
project, which I think is very important.

1228
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:47,580
It's a community epicenter, it's not like the hill in San Luis Obispo, but it's a beautiful

1229
01:42:47,580 --> 01:42:49,880
view that people come to check out.

1230
01:42:50,060 --> 01:42:52,740
It's not just the surfers that go there, but it's the grass.

1231
01:42:52,740 --> 01:42:53,540
It's the lighthouse.

1232
01:42:53,580 --> 01:42:58,680
It's got all the surfing memorabilia in the lighthouse, so it's very cultural to our town.

1233
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:04,460
So, it's really appreciative of the city investing into a community epicenter like this.

1234
01:43:06,440 --> 01:43:10,260
And yeah, just the wave modeling, I think, is a really important component to it.

1235
01:43:10,260 --> 01:43:11,560
So thank you for adding that in.

1236
01:43:12,340 --> 01:43:15,160
And then the last part is I'm sure everyone's kind of aware

1237
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:20,120
of like the Godzilla El Niño coming into the near future.

1238
01:43:20,220 --> 01:43:23,060
It's good to hear that we're not in immediate danger

1239
01:43:23,060 --> 01:43:26,160
with the erosion, but it's something to take into consideration

1240
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:30,480
and maybe looking forward to somehow modeling

1241
01:43:30,480 --> 01:43:34,160
or looking at ways to just, I guess, with the erosion,

1242
01:43:34,300 --> 01:43:36,520
like not managing, but managing it.

1243
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:39,200
I guess I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but making sure

1244
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:46,060
with El Nino and the Godzilla El Nino and all the effects of erosion make sure we're really looking

1245
01:43:46,060 --> 01:43:50,260
into what's happening with erosion and so I think this project is a good step in the right

1246
01:43:50,260 --> 01:43:55,660
direction. Thank you. Thank you and thanks for all the good work that Safe the Wave does not

1247
01:43:55,660 --> 01:44:00,360
only hear but throughout the world. Thank you very much for that. Anyone else wish to come in?

1248
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:05,480
We have anybody online? We'll take person online. Good afternoon. Welcome to the City Council meeting.

1249
01:44:05,480 --> 01:44:06,520
Thank

1250
01:44:08,530 --> 01:44:14,870
you, Fred. Hi, Bradley Snyder. So, one of my required classes for my first degree

1251
01:44:14,870 --> 01:44:22,510
was a laboratory geology class. And Sandstone's got a generally considered to have a most

1252
01:44:22,510 --> 01:44:31,670
hardness rating of about 6.5. But the fact of the matter is that it's a silicacious rock that

1253
01:44:31,670 --> 01:44:37,330
It has a kind of a glue component that holds it all together, which is calcium carbonate.

1254
01:44:37,830 --> 01:44:40,970
So it's like limestone, and it's hardness is about three and a half.

1255
01:44:41,690 --> 01:44:50,070
So what you have is a very hard matrix of silicate rock with a very soft, relatively soft,

1256
01:44:50,150 --> 01:44:52,590
I should say limestone holding it together.

1257
01:44:52,590 --> 01:44:55,970
And, you know, it's prone to erosion.

1258
01:44:56,530 --> 01:44:59,970
Purisma sandstone, which, you know, you...

1259
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:29,980
We see it natural bridges, there used to be multiple bridges, and that's why it's called natural bridges. However, now there's a single bridge remaining. And with nature, I think often, the best course of action is if it's not broken, don't fix it. Maybe even if it is broken, don't fix it. The suggestion that it be armored is, I guess, the true point where, you know, maybe Mrs. County Johnson has to speak to.

1260
01:45:29,980 --> 01:45:36,680
You hear constituents about how long it could last without armor, clothing it with armor.

1261
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:42,020
I don't know, a brake water, like they have at the lighthouse near the harbor or something

1262
01:45:42,020 --> 01:45:44,180
like that, could perhaps preserve it for longer.

1263
01:45:45,180 --> 01:45:57,120
I think a lot of surfers know that the frequency of waves and the amplitude of the wave and the

1264
01:45:57,120 --> 01:46:03,560
the frequency of higher amplitude waves is a logarithmic calculation. And there are only so many

1265
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:11,620
huge waves, Godzilla waves, I guess, I don't know. But for me, I just think like this is kind

1266
01:46:11,620 --> 01:46:18,060
of a really large expense. Kind of on the scale of the amount of money that I was complaining about

1267
01:46:18,060 --> 01:46:23,520
the issue about the flock. Cameras are earlier that you spend about twice as much on something that

1268
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:29,560
later you just simply decided it wasn't worth having spent that money on and you know that's

1269
01:46:29,560 --> 01:46:39,740
alarming to citizens. When the accounting comes down to, well okay we have to decide if or if not

1270
01:46:41,500 --> 01:46:48,420
this purported problem is a problem. Well obviously with the flood cameras the police would have

1271
01:46:48,420 --> 01:46:55,880
like to have their job be easier and obviously we'd like to believe that you know 50 years

1272
01:46:55,880 --> 01:47:00,100
after we're gone that the lighthouse point is still there for people to enjoy it the fact

1273
01:47:00,100 --> 01:47:05,860
is it's part of the landscape it's part of the scenery and I don't think we should mess with it

1274
01:47:05,860 --> 01:47:07,240
I honestly don't thank you

1275
01:47:10,980 --> 01:47:16,480
okay matters back before the body pleasure of the body council

1276
01:47:16,480 --> 01:47:18,400
So the vice mayor is recognized.

1277
01:47:19,060 --> 01:47:20,480
I'd like to move staff recommendation.

1278
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:22,580
There is a motion, is there a second?

1279
01:47:23,440 --> 01:47:25,060
Second by council member Tregaro.

1280
01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:26,920
You may open on your motion.

1281
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:30,280
I made my comments and no further your comments.

1282
01:47:30,740 --> 01:47:31,380
Looking forward to the work.

1283
01:47:32,020 --> 01:47:33,480
For the debate or discussion,

1284
01:47:33,740 --> 01:47:36,020
seen here and none, the clerk will call the roll.

1285
01:47:37,020 --> 01:47:37,960
Member Tregaro.

1286
01:47:38,300 --> 01:47:38,460
Aye.

1287
01:47:38,900 --> 01:47:39,100
Trudor.

1288
01:47:39,500 --> 01:47:39,840
Aye.

1289
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:41,080
Newsom.

1290
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:41,480
Aye.

1291
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:41,940
Boulder.

1292
01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:42,760
Aye.

1293
01:47:43,100 --> 01:47:44,780
Vice Mayor Colin Targonson.

1294
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:45,140
Aye.

1295
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:54,350
Thank you very much. I hope you don't mind, Mr. Crosley, that you will never be the public

1296
01:47:54,350 --> 01:47:56,970
works director of St. Louis Bisfield.

1297
01:47:59,030 --> 01:48:07,890
We are item 23. This is a, I'm sorry, excuse me. Yes,

1298
01:48:08,030 --> 01:48:13,590
it is. We are going to be taking, at this time, excuse me, we're going to take a 10 minute afternoon

1299
01:48:13,590 --> 01:48:16,670
and break, we'll be back here at 2.35.

1300
01:48:20,540 --> 01:48:21,200
Excuse me.

1301
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:22,900
Make sense.

1302
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:25,640
There we go.

1303
01:48:26,440 --> 01:48:27,740
Thank you.

1304
01:48:34,730 --> 01:48:36,050
Yeah, yeah.

1305
01:50:42,500 --> 01:50:43,100
Senator

1306
01:59:16,980 --> 01:59:21,080
Cruz City Council is back in session following our afternoon recess.

1307
01:59:21,340 --> 01:59:23,880
A quorum continues to be present.

1308
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:26,660
We will be taking up item 23.

1309
01:59:26,660 --> 01:59:33,160
This is a Council direction on objective design standards, expanding the concept of the

1310
01:59:33,160 --> 01:59:37,760
downtown density bonuses and regulations for the removal of heritage trees.

1311
01:59:37,760 --> 01:59:46,200
There is material in our packet and Ms. J. Wardina is going to be opening on this and

1312
01:59:46,200 --> 01:59:48,220
there are other staff members as well.

1313
01:59:48,380 --> 01:59:50,100
Good afternoon and welcome to the Council meeting.

1314
01:59:50,100 --> 01:59:50,880
I'm

1315
01:59:53,000 --> 01:59:58,520
Akanna Jarwadna, Senior Planet, with the Advanced Planning Team, and I'm here with my colleague Laras Dangan.

1316
02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:28,220
We had to respond to council direction, we received in 2025 on three topics. Objective design standards, the downtown density bonus, expansion to other parts of the city, and objective standards for heritage tree removals. In response to this direction, we're here to present several approaches, and we'll talk through those in sync. I will begin with the staff approach direction on objective design.

1317
02:00:30,460 --> 02:00:34,240
In 2025, the city updated its objective design standards.

1318
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:37,540
that were first adopted by the City Council, and two.

1319
02:00:39,100 --> 02:00:45,240
In May of 2025, City Council directed staff to develop an objective design standards

1320
02:00:45,240 --> 02:00:50,400
toolkit that ensures that the standards are readily accessible to developers and members

1321
02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:51,100
of the public.

1322
02:00:53,140 --> 02:00:57,820
When talking about objective design standards, a critical component to consider is that the

1323
02:00:57,820 --> 02:01:02,760
state density bonus law grants incentives or concessions and waivers to developments

1324
02:01:02,760 --> 02:01:04,500
that provide affordable housing.

1325
02:01:05,660 --> 02:01:08,480
I'm going to ask you, thank you so much, move it even closer.

1326
02:01:09,300 --> 02:01:09,820
Is that better?

1327
02:01:10,660 --> 02:01:12,960
Close as possible. There you go.

1328
02:01:13,540 --> 02:01:14,620
Now here's what you're doing.

1329
02:01:14,900 --> 02:01:16,340
You're moving it and then you go like this.

1330
02:01:17,480 --> 02:01:19,140
Nice and close, there you go.

1331
02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:20,460
I'll get used to it.

1332
02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:21,300
Thank you.

1333
02:01:22,260 --> 02:01:24,560
When talking about objective design standards,

1334
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:28,600
a critical component to consider is that the state density bonus law

1335
02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:33,760
grant incentives or concessions and waivers to developments that provide affordable housing.

1336
02:01:34,900 --> 02:01:39,540
Developers use these provisions to deviate from local development and design standards.

1337
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:45,640
State and case law have determined that the city's inclusionary housing units count towards

1338
02:01:45,640 --> 02:01:51,720
the state and city bonus requirements. Inclusionary housing is housing that is affordable to lower

1339
02:01:51,720 --> 02:01:56,880
income households and is required to be provided within multifamily housing developments.

1340
02:01:57,720 --> 02:02:04,540
The city has a 20% inclusionary housing requirement, and because of this, nearly all multi-family

1341
02:02:04,540 --> 02:02:08,680
housing projects in Santa Cruz use the state density bonus in some form.

1342
02:02:09,320 --> 02:02:14,500
Not always to add density, but sometimes just for the incentives, or concessions, and

1343
02:02:14,500 --> 02:02:18,160
waivers that allow for deviation from design and development standards.

1344
02:02:20,770 --> 02:02:25,250
The state density bonus allows deviation from these standards, which mean that, for example,

1345
02:02:25,250 --> 02:02:33,910
projects can deviate from height limits, setback requirements, floor area ratio requirements and even architectural design requirements.

1346
02:02:35,250 --> 02:02:40,650
In response, some dues sections are utilizing voluntary design guidelines.

1347
02:02:41,550 --> 02:02:50,330
These are non-binding principles and recommendations that supplement objective standards and communicate design values and development goals.

1348
02:02:51,710 --> 02:02:56,890
The current planning team has been developing and using a handout like document to communicate

1349
02:02:56,890 --> 02:03:02,090
design priorities and desirable architectural examples with the development community.

1350
02:03:02,610 --> 02:03:06,990
In some instances, this has led to productive conversations with developers.

1351
02:03:08,010 --> 02:03:13,130
In response to console direction, staff proposed to further develop the handout that the current

1352
02:03:13,130 --> 02:03:19,530
planning team has been using and developing and use this to better communicate the

1353
02:03:19,530 --> 02:03:22,230
councils and communities design values.

1354
02:03:23,270 --> 02:03:25,830
The document attached in your agenda report

1355
02:03:25,830 --> 02:03:28,130
and the extracted pages you see here

1356
02:03:28,130 --> 02:03:29,810
before you are purely a draft

1357
02:03:29,810 --> 02:03:32,710
to provide a sense of what this document could look like.

1358
02:03:33,510 --> 02:03:35,690
The objective today is to understand

1359
02:03:35,690 --> 02:03:38,790
if this is an approach that council would like staff to pursue.

1360
02:03:39,570 --> 02:03:41,930
And if so, staff would work with the council

1361
02:03:41,930 --> 02:03:44,270
and the community to further develop this document.

1362
02:03:46,190 --> 02:03:48,450
Specifically, staff will work with the council

1363
02:03:48,450 --> 02:03:53,790
to develop a set of priorities and with design professionals in the community to create design

1364
02:03:53,790 --> 02:03:59,950
guidelines. The intention is that these priorities and guidelines would reach developers

1365
02:03:59,950 --> 02:04:05,270
before they begin designing a project to provide meaningful input in the development process.

1366
02:04:06,750 --> 02:04:12,970
A handout will also include examples of encouraged and discouraged architecture intended to showcase

1367
02:04:12,970 --> 02:04:17,890
the types of developments that the city might want to promote and to inspire creativity

1368
02:04:17,890 --> 02:04:20,150
and variety in architectural design.

1369
02:04:22,870 --> 02:04:24,850
As part of developing this document further,

1370
02:04:25,270 --> 02:04:27,110
staff recommend creating incentives

1371
02:04:27,110 --> 02:04:30,810
to further support achieving these design guidelines

1372
02:04:30,810 --> 02:04:31,590
and priorities.

1373
02:04:32,570 --> 02:04:35,370
Based on initial conversations with other jurisdictions,

1374
02:04:36,290 --> 02:04:39,430
incentives would increase the efficacy of such a document.

1375
02:04:40,670 --> 02:04:43,810
Incentives could include ministerial approvals,

1376
02:04:44,370 --> 02:04:47,450
faster overall processing timelines, or reduced fees.

1377
02:04:48,850 --> 02:04:54,230
Following the guidance of a document such as this could also provide indirect benefits

1378
02:04:54,230 --> 02:04:59,610
to the development community, such as a smoother community engagement process, or greater

1379
02:04:59,610 --> 02:05:02,970
decision-maker and community support for development projects.

1380
02:05:06,470 --> 02:05:09,850
Switching gears now to the Downtown Density Bonus Expansion concept.

1381
02:05:11,310 --> 02:05:18,010
In 2025, City Council directed staff to evaluate expanding the Downtown Density bonus to other

1382
02:05:18,010 --> 02:05:18,870
parts of the city.

1383
02:05:20,310 --> 02:05:25,550
Discussions with the Housing Subcommittee informed a hypothetical scenario with

1384
02:05:25,550 --> 02:05:30,030
development with specific development priorities and potential incentives for

1385
02:05:30,030 --> 02:05:35,010
complying with these priorities. The development priorities arrived at were

1386
02:05:35,010 --> 02:05:41,250
regulated building heights and real property line setbacks. Potential incentives

1387
02:05:41,250 --> 02:05:45,830
included a modified inclusionary housing requirement both in terms of changing

1388
02:05:45,830 --> 02:05:50,770
the amount and the depth of the affordability provided and allowing off-site

1389
02:05:50,770 --> 02:05:55,570
inclusionary housing. So this second incentive was ultimately determined to

1390
02:05:55,570 --> 02:06:01,190
not be in line with the city's overall housing values and goals. When we

1391
02:06:01,190 --> 02:06:05,510
presented this hypothetical scenario to the development community, we heard that

1392
02:06:05,510 --> 02:06:10,370
it would not be an attractive alternative to the state density bonus and so

1393
02:06:10,370 --> 02:06:11,570
ultimately infeasible.

1394
02:06:14,020 --> 02:06:17,380
An expanded downtown density bonus must out-compete the

1395
02:06:17,380 --> 02:06:23,220
state density bonus, which allows for up to 100% increase in density and a broad range

1396
02:06:23,220 --> 02:06:28,360
of deviations from development and design standards as discussed previously in this presentation.

1397
02:06:30,940 --> 02:06:35,820
So I have to not recommend further studying expanding the downtown density bonus to other

1398
02:06:35,820 --> 02:06:41,320
parts of the city because avenues to possibly outcompete the state density bonus, such as

1399
02:06:41,320 --> 02:06:46,920
allowing for inclusionary housing off site or reducing the inclusionary housing requirement

1400
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:50,720
all together would come at too high a cost to the city's values.

1401
02:06:52,340 --> 02:06:57,520
Additionally, seeking to expand the downtown density bonus would require a costly environmental

1402
02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:05,000
impact report. Further exploration of this potentially infeasible proposal would also redirect

1403
02:07:05,000 --> 02:07:08,660
soft resources away from time sensitive work plan items.

1404
02:07:11,050 --> 02:07:13,670
Instead, staff recommend further exploring

1405
02:07:13,670 --> 02:07:18,910
an alternative approach which leverages the state density bonus and utilizes the design

1406
02:07:18,910 --> 02:07:22,950
guidelines and priorities hand out to achieve similar council objectives.

1407
02:07:24,010 --> 02:07:29,810
This alternative would allow ministerial approvals for projects that comply with a set number of

1408
02:07:29,810 --> 02:07:30,770
council priorities.

1409
02:07:39,820 --> 02:07:43,960
Ministerial approvals are perhaps the only incentive powerful enough to provide

1410
02:07:45,000 --> 02:07:51,020
to encourage developers to comply with the development requirements, especially given the provisions

1411
02:07:51,020 --> 02:07:52,980
granted by the state density bonus.

1412
02:07:54,080 --> 02:07:58,460
Staff believe that this alternative approach will align with the city council's goals

1413
02:07:58,460 --> 02:08:02,500
and be a feasible option for both the city and the development community.

1414
02:08:09,060 --> 02:08:10,800
Shanger, good afternoon. Welcome.

1415
02:08:11,940 --> 02:08:13,620
Good afternoon, Mayor and council members.

1416
02:08:13,940 --> 02:08:15,440
I am going to talk about heritage trees.

1417
02:08:16,280 --> 02:08:23,120
So in 2025, the city council gave staff direction to review options for heritage tree regulations

1418
02:08:23,120 --> 02:08:28,620
related to multifamily housing projects that would align with state law from the city's

1419
02:08:28,620 --> 02:08:32,680
environmental values and potentially include the creation of objective standards.

1420
02:08:33,440 --> 02:08:38,640
The city's heritage tree ordinance currently allows removal of a heritage tree only under

1421
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:44,280
a few specific circumstances, including if the tree is in poor condition, if it is causing

1422
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:51,860
damage to a property, or if the construction project design cannot be altered to accommodate

1423
02:08:51,860 --> 02:08:57,120
existing heritage trees or shrubs, and this is the big finding related to development projects.

1424
02:08:58,080 --> 02:09:02,620
However, changes to state law over the last several years make this particular finding

1425
02:09:02,620 --> 02:09:06,320
unenforceable for more multifamily residential development.

1426
02:09:08,630 --> 02:09:10,570
When it comes to multifamily housing,

1427
02:09:10,950 --> 02:09:17,970
the development of two or more new units of housing, state law says that the city cannot apply

1428
02:09:17,970 --> 02:09:23,230
any subjective requirements. We can only apply objective standards to a proposed development.

1429
02:09:23,490 --> 02:09:30,570
We cannot vaguely require projects to redesign, and we cannot require a project to reduce its

1430
02:09:30,570 --> 02:09:34,850
residential density or impose a requirement that makes a project infeasible.

1431
02:09:35,450 --> 02:09:41,350
The current heritage tree ordinance binding is subjective and therefore is unenforceable

1432
02:09:41,350 --> 02:09:44,210
when it comes to multifamily housing development.

1433
02:09:44,790 --> 02:09:50,770
The question of whether a project design cannot be altered would result in a subjective and

1434
02:09:50,770 --> 02:09:54,070
very project specific conversation between a developer

1435
02:09:54,070 --> 02:09:56,390
and the city about the project design

1436
02:09:56,390 --> 02:09:58,290
and that's something that's just not allowed

1437
02:09:58,290 --> 02:10:00,370
under state law anymore, excuse me.

1438
02:10:01,230 --> 02:10:03,670
So what can we do to increase protections

1439
02:10:03,670 --> 02:10:05,810
for heritage trees for these kinds of projects?

1440
02:10:07,690 --> 02:10:10,850
Well, a couple things you can do is to create new objective

1441
02:10:10,850 --> 02:10:14,870
standards or create incentives that would apply

1442
02:10:14,870 --> 02:10:18,030
to heritage trees affected by multifamily housing projects.

1443
02:10:18,030 --> 02:10:25,870
We could create objective standards, for example, for tree removal criteria, like professional

1444
02:10:25,870 --> 02:10:32,770
arborist standards that would determine whether or not a tree would be able to survive construction

1445
02:10:32,770 --> 02:10:36,210
impacts given standard tree protection measures.

1446
02:10:37,970 --> 02:10:42,750
We could have objective standards for replacement trees, how many, what size, what species, etc.

1447
02:10:42,750 --> 02:11:00,010
If a replacement tree is not feasible, we could have objective standards for in lieu fees and then standards for protection of retained trees and even more creative things like productive lumber reuse when a heritage tree must be taken down.

1448
02:11:01,350 --> 02:11:11,130
So staff has already worked on all of these except for the lumber reuse in 2025 when drafting objective standards as they relate to affordable housing projects.

1449
02:11:11,130 --> 02:11:15,450
Those standards could also be utilized for all multifamily housing developments.

1450
02:11:16,890 --> 02:11:24,190
One note is that we cannot make objective standards that require projects to retain

1451
02:11:24,190 --> 02:11:26,410
all trees or even specific trees.

1452
02:11:26,850 --> 02:11:31,830
For example, we couldn't make an objective standard saying the project needs to retain any

1453
02:11:31,830 --> 02:11:33,950
tree with a trunk over two feet in diameter.

1454
02:11:34,630 --> 02:11:39,070
And the reason is because it could result in issues with the residential density of the

1455
02:11:39,070 --> 02:11:45,530
project or even the project feasibility and that could play out differently on different

1456
02:11:45,530 --> 02:11:50,770
projects in a very big project specific basis. And again, it would create that back-and-forth

1457
02:11:50,770 --> 02:11:56,290
conversation between the applicant and the city that would make the review process subjective

1458
02:11:56,290 --> 02:12:02,630
which is not allowed under state law. So while we can't objectively require the retention

1459
02:12:02,630 --> 02:12:08,150
of specific trees, we can try to incentivize their retention. Potential ways to do this

1460
02:12:08,150 --> 02:12:13,010
could be through deviation to development standards, such as reduced setbacks or increased

1461
02:12:13,010 --> 02:12:19,390
height, etc., or allowance of bonus units, although that could be a bit more complex and could

1462
02:12:19,390 --> 02:12:22,530
result in a more complicated environmental review under SEQUA.

1463
02:12:22,870 --> 02:12:23,170
So,

1464
02:12:28,290 --> 02:12:33,390
staff's proposed approach would lean on both objective standards and potential incentives

1465
02:12:33,390 --> 02:12:34,590
for tree retention.

1466
02:12:35,310 --> 02:12:40,150
Last year, staff completed work on developing draft objective standards related to heritage

1467
02:12:40,150 --> 02:12:46,230
trees and 100% affordable housing projects. And that could be a starting point for this work ahead.

1468
02:12:46,830 --> 02:12:51,890
In addition, staff would want to gather input from the community to further define the community's

1469
02:12:51,890 --> 02:12:55,770
priorities and incentives in creating this updated policy.

1470
02:13:00,760 --> 02:13:03,160
So wrapping up the presentation here,

1471
02:13:03,680 --> 02:13:08,860
if Council directs staff to proceed with the recommendations as provided in the agenda report,

1472
02:13:08,860 --> 02:13:38,840
We would proceed with the following next steps in response to Council direction on objective standards staff would conduct engagement with the community and industry professionals return to council in the fall to present updates and for a priority setting exercise and then update the handout to include these priorities and an incentive program in response to council direction on the downtown density bonus expansion staff would cease exploration of expanding the downtown density bonus to

1473
02:13:38,840 --> 02:13:42,280
to other parts of the city and instead explore an alternative

1474
02:13:42,280 --> 02:13:44,260
that leverages the state density bonus

1475
02:13:44,260 --> 02:13:47,300
and the design guidelines and priorities handout.

1476
02:13:48,040 --> 02:13:50,340
And finally, in response to council direction

1477
02:13:50,340 --> 02:13:53,240
on heritage trees, staff would conduct further analysis

1478
02:13:53,240 --> 02:13:56,240
and community outreach and develop a draft ordinance.

1479
02:13:58,620 --> 02:14:00,120
So here's the staff recommendation

1480
02:14:00,120 --> 02:14:02,020
as it appears in the agenda report.

1481
02:14:02,720 --> 02:14:04,100
That concludes our presentation

1482
02:14:04,100 --> 02:14:06,520
and staff is available to answer any questions.

1483
02:14:06,980 --> 02:14:07,140
Thank you.

1484
02:14:08,540 --> 02:14:09,240
Thank you.

1485
02:14:09,660 --> 02:14:17,420
Let me see if there are questions, comments, as we begin this, Council Member O'Hara.

1486
02:14:18,760 --> 02:14:19,480
Thank you, Mayor.

1487
02:14:19,660 --> 02:14:23,860
I have a couple of questions about the Heritage Tree Ordinance Recommendation, and I think

1488
02:14:23,860 --> 02:14:30,100
that the motion, the way it's currently drafted leaves it kind of wide open in terms of what

1489
02:14:30,100 --> 02:14:36,000
you might be bringing back, but in the presentation, it seems as if you're talking about updating

1490
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:39,060
are ordinance to include objective standards.

1491
02:14:39,280 --> 02:14:42,440
Would you also be, you know, in large scale,

1492
02:14:42,660 --> 02:14:44,300
changing the ordinance, removing things

1493
02:14:44,300 --> 02:14:47,200
that could be subjective or perceived as subjective?

1494
02:14:50,020 --> 02:14:51,280
That's a good question.

1495
02:14:51,980 --> 02:14:56,440
So we're looking specifically at the removal of trees

1496
02:14:56,440 --> 02:14:58,520
as they relate to housing development projects,

1497
02:14:58,520 --> 02:14:59,960
whereas the heritage tree ordinance.

1498
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:19,060
All different types of scenarios, all different types of development, including but beyond housing development, and then other types of scenarios as well, like two neighbors fighting over whether or not to keep a tree. There's no development going on at all. So we could, it could.

1499
02:15:21,650 --> 02:15:30,070
The way that it would amend the heritage regulations would be specific to those multifamily housing standards, and the standards created would be objective.

1500
02:15:30,890 --> 02:15:35,150
But there could be subjectivity remaining in the Heritage Reordinates given that it

1501
02:15:35,150 --> 02:15:36,930
applies to so many other different things as well.

1502
02:15:37,550 --> 02:15:37,810
Okay.

1503
02:15:38,070 --> 02:15:39,230
That's really helpful.

1504
02:15:39,550 --> 02:15:41,850
And I honestly wasn't even thinking about all of the other ones.

1505
02:15:41,850 --> 02:15:43,450
I was really stuck in the multi-family.

1506
02:15:44,210 --> 02:15:48,710
With regard to criteria one, C3, I think you had it up on the screen.

1507
02:15:49,790 --> 02:15:54,850
I think there's a fair amount of engagement, and maybe it's only coming from a select

1508
02:15:54,850 --> 02:16:01,790
few but I think that they, you know, are providing really good feedback on the spectrum

1509
02:16:01,790 --> 02:16:06,270
of how we are considering objectivity versus subjectivity.

1510
02:16:06,570 --> 02:16:16,370
And on that particular one, if you could go back a couple screens to that one, I would

1511
02:16:16,370 --> 02:16:27,650
just encourage us to be thinking about even though projects and developers can get waivers

1512
02:16:27,650 --> 02:16:34,490
and concessions granted, that doesn't mean that this could not be an objective criteria

1513
02:16:34,490 --> 02:16:38,910
as it relates to, some projects can be altered, right?

1514
02:16:38,910 --> 02:16:49,250
like in terms of if from my understanding the law, the state law requires these waivers

1515
02:16:49,250 --> 02:16:55,110
to be and concessions to be available for developers to ensure that they are meeting the the

1516
02:16:55,110 --> 02:17:01,150
density numbers or the unit, the number of units, right, at a cost, I think, you know, in

1517
02:17:01,150 --> 02:17:03,510
a way that they can afford or pencil out or whatever.

1518
02:17:05,210 --> 02:17:09,490
I would just want to make sure that whatever we're doing with regard to the ordinance that

1519
02:17:09,490 --> 02:17:14,810
we are building in a process for which maybe it's 10% of the time.

1520
02:17:14,990 --> 02:17:16,510
Maybe it's 5% of the time.

1521
02:17:17,250 --> 02:17:22,830
Those designs that can be altered to save a tree, we are encouraging people to do that and

1522
02:17:22,830 --> 02:17:26,390
not just completely foreclosing on that option, that makes sense.

1523
02:17:27,710 --> 02:17:29,290
I was wondering if you could respond to that.

1524
02:17:29,290 --> 02:17:30,190
I

1525
02:17:35,890 --> 02:17:40,790
can, I also see Matt Vannegut, I'll start in Mac and Adon.

1526
02:17:41,510 --> 02:17:45,090
So it is, that's a good question.

1527
02:17:45,290 --> 02:17:51,310
That's something that has also been circling in my mind, you know, as I've thought about

1528
02:17:51,310 --> 02:17:53,090
this over the months and talked to people.

1529
02:17:53,790 --> 02:17:59,690
And there are times when projects could maybe be redesigned, it's

1530
02:18:02,410 --> 02:18:03,570
still a very subjective

1531
02:18:03,570 --> 02:18:04,250
question.

1532
02:18:04,250 --> 02:18:12,070
And there's a lot of things that go into a project that, you know, a lot of things that

1533
02:18:12,070 --> 02:18:17,610
a developer puts into a project that we don't really have to consider from the planning

1534
02:18:17,610 --> 02:18:21,910
and the things and we're just looking at development standards because they have costs and they

1535
02:18:21,910 --> 02:18:26,630
have how they arrange all of their different pieces of the project to make it fit all together.

1536
02:18:27,350 --> 02:18:32,070
So there are times where it seems perfectly feasible from a planning perspective to move

1537
02:18:32,070 --> 02:18:38,670
things around, but from a development perspective it's not feasible, maybe there are times where

1538
02:18:38,670 --> 02:18:40,990
it is truly feasible to redesign.

1539
02:18:43,030 --> 02:18:48,610
How do you objectively require that? It's very, I haven't

1540
02:18:48,610 --> 02:18:53,030
thought of a way to do that. If it's possible, I'd love to hear about it.

1541
02:19:03,730 --> 02:19:11,350
That would ultimately still be a subjective standard, so we couldn't require it, but it

1542
02:19:11,350 --> 02:19:16,270
could potentially be your idea, and we already do this currently early in the development

1543
02:19:16,270 --> 02:19:24,350
process when Samantha's team is reviewing plans and seeing where the trees are and where

1544
02:19:24,350 --> 02:19:26,170
thinking about early in the development process

1545
02:19:26,170 --> 02:19:27,610
with those development proposals.

1546
02:19:28,470 --> 02:19:31,250
So that does happen, but it is kind of subjective,

1547
02:19:31,430 --> 02:19:32,350
and it's just a discussion,

1548
02:19:33,070 --> 02:19:35,250
and we provide guidance on that.

1549
02:19:35,930 --> 02:19:39,170
And to that end, that kind of idea

1550
02:19:39,170 --> 02:19:42,470
could be in our like our objective standards,

1551
02:19:42,610 --> 02:19:44,450
like guidelines document, for instance,

1552
02:19:44,510 --> 02:19:48,190
for development to get that early consideration

1553
02:19:48,770 --> 02:19:52,770
and to have that be prioritized in some way in that document.

1554
02:19:52,770 --> 02:20:08,330
but it's not something we could ultimately require of developers, and that could also be again kind of going to that incentive process as well, where we see incentives being the best way to get those outcomes that we desire.

1555
02:20:09,390 --> 02:20:10,250
Thank you.

1556
02:20:11,270 --> 02:20:12,070
Thank you.

1557
02:20:12,530 --> 02:20:13,090
Others?

1558
02:20:13,650 --> 02:20:14,450
Commissioner Cummings.

1559
02:20:15,190 --> 02:20:17,750
If I might on a couple of points.

1560
02:20:18,110 --> 02:20:22,730
Can we go to this issue for a moment of ministerial approvals?

1561
02:20:23,250 --> 02:20:25,990
That's the topic I would like to discuss here.

1562
02:20:28,870 --> 02:20:35,130
The proposal here would let's define the universe of ministerial approvals.

1563
02:20:35,270 --> 02:20:36,090
Let's do that first.

1564
02:20:36,090 --> 02:20:37,010
So

1565
02:20:48,530 --> 02:20:58,330
we would be proposing it as an option both for I am still having a hard time hearing you please sorry is that better.

1566
02:21:00,780 --> 02:21:07,640
We're proposing it as an incentive for pursuing the alternative to the density bonus expansion.

1567
02:21:13,250 --> 02:21:24,330
So this proposed alternative would leverage the state density bonus and allow for ministerial approvals for projects that comply with a set.

1568
02:21:24,330 --> 02:21:26,470
that number of council priorities.

1569
02:21:27,390 --> 02:21:31,070
This is an alternative to the direction

1570
02:21:31,070 --> 02:21:34,730
for exploring the density bonus expansion.

1571
02:21:37,420 --> 02:21:42,240
So we are, if we were to move forward,

1572
02:21:44,270 --> 02:21:49,220
in certain circumstances, a choice could be made

1573
02:21:50,130 --> 02:21:53,560
to go to a ministerial approval

1574
02:21:53,560 --> 02:21:57,240
as opposed to now finish that sentence for me.

1575
02:21:58,280 --> 02:22:02,600
As opposed to pursuing the state density bonus and waiving,

1576
02:22:03,500 --> 02:22:10,220
or using incentives and concessions to deviate from the city's objective design standards.

1577
02:22:13,510 --> 02:22:17,080
I appreciate your answer.

1578
02:22:17,440 --> 02:22:19,400
Let me try to rephrase my question.

1579
02:22:21,660 --> 02:22:22,720
Right now,

1580
02:22:22,720 --> 02:22:24,660
I'll hold

1581
02:22:28,630 --> 02:22:32,970
for a second. Mr. Butler, let's see what's you and I engaged in this.

1582
02:22:33,490 --> 02:22:36,590
Let me tell you what my concern is and then you can assuage it or not.

1583
02:22:37,050 --> 02:22:38,710
And I think I can answer the primary question.

1584
02:22:38,710 --> 02:22:39,210
Well, there we go.

1585
02:22:39,630 --> 02:22:45,010
Are you trying to understand the distinction between a ministerial process and what happens now?

1586
02:22:47,190 --> 02:22:50,830
I'll just say it in my words, so we're real clear about what it is.

1587
02:22:51,990 --> 02:23:02,480
My concern generally speaking is the way the public can participate in developments among

1588
02:23:02,480 --> 02:23:09,740
other things is that they have an opportunity either at one, two, or three different levels

1589
02:23:09,740 --> 02:23:20,860
of this city government to express their hopes, desires, objections, happiness, etc., in

1590
02:23:20,860 --> 02:23:28,460
assuming, and you can correct me on this, that by allowing ministerial approval, those

1591
02:23:28,460 --> 02:23:32,100
options are not available to the public. Am I right?

1592
02:23:33,180 --> 02:23:33,560
Partially.

1593
02:23:34,200 --> 02:23:34,280
Okay.

1594
02:23:34,440 --> 02:23:42,360
So, and potentially, that would be up to the discretion of the council. However, I will go

1595
02:23:42,360 --> 02:23:48,300
back to the 100% affordable ministerial proposals that have gone to the planning commission, but

1596
02:23:48,300 --> 02:23:56,060
not yet come to the council, for example, as part of that process, we were requiring that

1597
02:23:56,060 --> 02:24:02,120
a community meeting be held early in the process. So in order to qualify, you would have to go out

1598
02:24:02,120 --> 02:24:09,180
and engage with the community and get that feedback early in the process. So there wouldn't necessarily be

1599
02:24:09,980 --> 02:24:15,980
a hearing in front of the hearing bodies, but there would be an opportunity for community engagement.

1600
02:24:15,980 --> 02:24:23,580
And that same sort of framework could be established for an approach such as this should

1601
02:24:23,580 --> 02:24:26,260
the council want to pursue this path.

1602
02:24:28,590 --> 02:24:31,930
Does that, do you want me to rephrase that?

1603
02:24:32,250 --> 02:24:44,950
The reason I'm hesitating is it does seem that if we didn't do anything, and there is

1604
02:24:44,950 --> 02:24:50,690
a project proposed, and there's not a ministerial approval option.

1605
02:24:50,890 --> 02:24:58,910
What there is is a process where planning commission, city council, neighborhood comes

1606
02:24:58,910 --> 02:25:04,670
in, says at the planning commission, we're concerned about X, Y and Z. They hear at that

1607
02:25:04,670 --> 02:25:10,970
meeting what we can do and not do under the laws that have been passed in the last eight

1608
02:25:10,970 --> 02:25:17,350
nine years we can educate and inform them about what our jurisdiction is and

1609
02:25:17,350 --> 02:25:25,330
what it isn't. I view that as an opportunity for what I'll continue in

1610
02:25:25,330 --> 02:25:31,050
education of our public who may or may not understand the degree to which we

1611
02:25:31,050 --> 02:25:38,410
have lost virtually all of our discretionary authority under the state law and

1612
02:25:38,410 --> 02:25:47,190
And I am interested in focusing their concern, where they can get on the correct

1613
02:25:48,410 --> 02:25:54,450
individuals or individuals generally, if that's their state legislators, because they

1614
02:25:54,450 --> 02:26:01,130
don't like that they've lost the ability to come to the city council and get the kind of response

1615
02:26:01,130 --> 02:26:14,270
the answer hoping for by doing ministerial approval were further in my judgment, were further eroding the public's ability to understand what's going on here.

1616
02:26:14,930 --> 02:26:27,070
Whereas if we don't change that point and there are repeated opportunities, we then have the opportunity to have a more informed public project by project decision by decision.

1617
02:26:27,070 --> 02:26:39,070
that's of interest to me. So the degree to which this changes that and eliminates a more robust public participation,

1618
02:26:40,150 --> 02:26:52,310
I would need to be convinced that what we are getting for that is worth the offset of having less genuine public participation.

1619
02:26:54,170 --> 02:26:59,530
I would suggest that the community meeting process does offer genuine participation and

1620
02:26:59,530 --> 02:27:02,310
certainly that message is conveyed as part of that process.

1621
02:27:03,110 --> 02:27:10,070
And I think that there is an opportunity there still, you know, this is really a decision,

1622
02:27:10,230 --> 02:27:11,790
a policy level decision for the council.

1623
02:27:12,450 --> 02:27:19,010
This is an opportunity if you want to encourage developers to follow certain priorities that

1624
02:27:19,010 --> 02:27:27,350
you get to set, then this would be an option for you to do that. So this is a lever that you can use

1625
02:27:27,830 --> 02:27:36,870
to encourage certain following certain approaches. You identify these approaches. If the developer

1626
02:27:36,870 --> 02:27:42,770
follows those approaches, then they can pursue this path. We can still have that community meeting.

1627
02:27:42,770 --> 02:27:51,670
we can still convey that policy issue and the lack of discretion that the City Council

1628
02:27:51,670 --> 02:27:56,870
or the Planning Commission or the Zoning Administrator have, because there is very little discretion

1629
02:27:56,870 --> 02:28:03,150
in those decisions at this point. And so that certainly can be conveyed, but really what this

1630
02:28:03,150 --> 02:28:11,830
boils down to is whether as the Council, you want to make that trade off. And that's a policy.

1631
02:28:11,830 --> 02:28:14,870
It's also something that you don't necessarily have to decide today.

1632
02:28:15,510 --> 02:28:23,790
You could decide, let's say we go forward with those other recommendations, and after

1633
02:28:23,790 --> 02:28:31,250
you develop those policy priorities, you could say, hey, it would be great if we had a

1634
02:28:31,250 --> 02:28:38,710
little more leverage to encourage developers to proceed with one or more or all of those

1635
02:28:38,710 --> 02:28:42,770
priorities, and then you can decide to go down that path at that point.

1636
02:28:45,210 --> 02:28:46,030
Thank you.

1637
02:28:46,130 --> 02:28:50,650
I think that's a serious answer to what I hope was a serious question.

1638
02:28:51,670 --> 02:29:01,870
The, see if I, from your answer, it sounds like using your word the leverage, you know,

1639
02:29:02,130 --> 02:29:07,030
creating the opportunity, giving a developer this opportunity.

1640
02:29:07,030 --> 02:29:16,490
The ministerial approval, the way I heard that, is listen developer, if you'll go do this,

1641
02:29:16,790 --> 02:29:25,690
which we want you to do, we will let you avoid City Council and Planning Commission meetings

1642
02:29:26,370 --> 02:29:30,710
where the public may show up and raise issues about you to go.

1643
02:29:30,870 --> 02:29:35,590
We will absolve you of that if you go over here and do something.

1644
02:29:35,590 --> 02:29:37,070
Am I right on that?

1645
02:29:37,290 --> 02:29:37,550
Correct.

1646
02:29:37,730 --> 02:29:43,550
Follow certain procedures, like the community meeting, as well as follow certain priorities,

1647
02:29:44,030 --> 02:29:47,810
say, you know, whether that's setbacks or heights or whatever it may be.

1648
02:29:48,250 --> 02:29:51,150
And that's sort of the balancing act that the council would have to make, you know,

1649
02:29:51,170 --> 02:29:54,450
put something out there that's more enticing than the state density bonus

1650
02:29:56,050 --> 02:29:59,410
with that carrot of a ministerial process.

1651
02:29:59,410 --> 02:29:59,970
you

1652
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:29,980
I understand these are trade-offs. I would observe that unless we were pretty careful on what these community meetings are, if they are going to substitute for a planning commission meeting and a city council meeting, and we're going to consolidate all of that in a community meeting, my guess is that that's very different than a hearing before the planning commission.

1653
02:30:29,980 --> 02:30:38,860
are hearing before this body. That sounds to me as if that is much less formal.

1654
02:30:41,060 --> 02:30:42,120
The community

1655
02:30:42,120 --> 02:30:49,900
meeting can take a lot of forms. It can be a syrup. It can be a, here's four tables. Go around

1656
02:30:49,900 --> 02:30:55,900
and look at the various things and ask questions or write things down on a three by five card or here's

1657
02:30:57,940 --> 02:31:02,180
I'm going to show you how old I am, one of those things that squares with all the stuff

1658
02:31:02,180 --> 02:31:02,560
on it.

1659
02:31:02,660 --> 02:31:07,160
You know, do that and you know, you can provide your comments that way.

1660
02:31:07,320 --> 02:31:13,960
That's very different in showing up at a council meeting or a planning commission meeting

1661
02:31:13,960 --> 02:31:20,320
where especially a city council meeting where elected officials can be held responsible

1662
02:31:20,320 --> 02:31:25,680
and accountable for their votes and their comments, then a community meeting is where none

1663
02:31:25,680 --> 02:31:32,580
of that happens. And that's what it seems to me anyway. But I appreciate your response.

1664
02:31:32,580 --> 02:31:36,680
I appreciate your comment. Thank you for that. There are other comments. Vice mayors

1665
02:31:36,680 --> 02:31:44,060
recognize. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. And thank you for the work on this so far. I see this

1666
02:31:45,180 --> 02:31:52,840
direction and item as a step towards pushing back against development that our community

1667
02:31:52,840 --> 02:32:00,520
has communicated to us electives as not what they want to see in our community.

1668
02:32:01,180 --> 02:32:05,760
I understand that we may have to provide some trade-offs and some incentives

1669
02:32:05,760 --> 02:32:07,980
and I think we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

1670
02:32:08,600 --> 02:32:11,500
You've given us some potential options for incentives

1671
02:32:11,500 --> 02:32:16,140
and when you bring it back before us then we'll have some more deliberation.

1672
02:32:17,220 --> 02:32:21,960
But I'm excited about this item because this is our opportunity

1673
02:32:21,960 --> 02:32:29,560
as city leaders and city elected officials to respond to what I've been here and what

1674
02:32:29,560 --> 02:32:34,860
we've been hearing from the community around yes to housing that can we do it our way.

1675
02:32:35,420 --> 02:32:37,100
So those are my comments for now.

1676
02:32:38,640 --> 02:32:39,400
Thank you.

1677
02:32:41,530 --> 02:32:42,230
Thank you.

1678
02:32:42,670 --> 02:32:45,130
Really debate or discussion comments.

1679
02:32:45,350 --> 02:32:49,910
Let me go out to the public and see if there's anyone with us either in Chambers or on

1680
02:32:49,910 --> 02:32:56,350
line who would wish to comment. I see no one in chambers does it do so. And we will take the

1681
02:32:56,350 --> 02:33:02,830
first person online, person online. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Welcome to the council meeting.

1682
02:33:03,210 --> 02:33:08,370
Good afternoon. This is Rob is on the field again. I'm speaking on behalf of Santa Christian B in

1683
02:33:08,370 --> 02:33:15,010
strong support of the staff recommendations. I wanted to focus on one key point. The city should

1684
02:33:15,010 --> 02:33:23,910
move forward with a local ministerial approval pathway for projects that can compete with

1685
02:33:23,910 --> 02:33:29,530
the state density bonus that are tied to clear objective design priorities that the

1686
02:33:29,530 --> 02:33:35,730
city council chooses. There's a tendency to think that ministerial approval is a loss

1687
02:33:35,730 --> 02:33:41,010
of local control, but in this case, in this moment, the reality is the opposite is true.

1688
02:33:41,010 --> 02:33:52,750
If the city is not on track to meet its rena obligations and particularly it's above moderate income targets, state law will be imposing SB 35 streamlining already.

1689
02:33:53,310 --> 02:33:57,570
That process is fully ministerial but it comes with far less local flexibility.

1690
02:33:58,530 --> 02:34:05,650
The city would be limited to applying only existing objective standards and very little ability to shape the outcome beyond that.

1691
02:34:05,650 --> 02:34:13,490
and that includes not being able to modify projects that are proposed to use the state density bonus law.

1692
02:34:14,310 --> 02:34:19,210
So the choice isn't really between discretionary review and ministerial approval.

1693
02:34:19,750 --> 02:34:24,330
The choice should be between local structured ministerial approval designed by the city

1694
02:34:24,330 --> 02:34:31,330
or state imposed ministerial approval with minimal local tailoring beyond the existing objective standards.

1695
02:34:31,330 --> 02:34:36,910
The staff recommendation gives you more local control by incentivizing projects that use

1696
02:34:36,910 --> 02:34:40,890
the local process instead of the state streamline process.

1697
02:34:41,570 --> 02:34:46,690
By creating a local pathway where ministerial approval is tied to compliance with the city

1698
02:34:46,690 --> 02:34:51,110
defined design priorities, you actually retain more influence over project outcomes.

1699
02:34:51,770 --> 02:34:56,270
You can set those expectations early, align those incentives and guide design in a way that

1700
02:34:56,270 --> 02:34:57,570
reflects community values.

1701
02:34:58,090 --> 02:34:59,950
If we wait, we lose that opportunity.

1702
02:34:59,950 --> 02:35:04,310
projects will be approved ministerially, but under a framework, we didn't design.

1703
02:35:04,950 --> 02:35:09,570
Just as importantly, ministerial approval reduces delay on certainty and cost.

1704
02:35:09,950 --> 02:35:12,030
Those are some of the biggest barriers to housing production.

1705
02:35:12,710 --> 02:35:17,010
If we want more housing, especially at moderate income levels and above, we need faster and

1706
02:35:17,010 --> 02:35:19,030
more predictable approvals.

1707
02:35:19,650 --> 02:35:22,130
The staff report lays out a practical path forward.

1708
02:35:22,770 --> 02:35:27,270
Don't try to out-compete state law, but instead leverage it and shape it to achieve local goals.

1709
02:35:27,270 --> 02:35:32,010
This is about being proactive rather than reactive, and we strongly encourage you to

1710
02:35:32,010 --> 02:35:36,430
adopt the recommendations and begin implementing a ministerial pathways as soon as possible.

1711
02:35:36,890 --> 02:35:37,390
Thank you.

1712
02:35:38,450 --> 02:35:39,170
Thank you.

1713
02:35:39,390 --> 02:35:40,150
John Phil does.

1714
02:35:40,970 --> 02:35:41,810
Very helpful.

1715
02:35:42,190 --> 02:35:43,270
I appreciate your comments.

1716
02:35:43,510 --> 02:35:44,470
We have anyone else online?

1717
02:35:44,910 --> 02:35:46,150
We'll take the next person online.

1718
02:35:46,270 --> 02:35:46,710
Good afternoon.

1719
02:35:46,950 --> 02:35:48,230
Welcome to the Council meeting.

1720
02:35:51,240 --> 02:35:52,160
Hello, Council.

1721
02:35:52,480 --> 02:35:52,880
Hello, Mayor.

1722
02:35:53,220 --> 02:35:54,400
This is Bradley Snyder.

1723
02:35:55,780 --> 02:36:09,320
identity, development, a critic, and Sequoia climbing square. I think everybody has a really

1724
02:36:09,320 --> 02:36:13,420
diverse view of exactly what kinds of heritage trees you're talking about. There were

1725
02:36:13,420 --> 02:36:20,760
the heritage trees that Cynthia Matthews planted along one of the side streets downtown.

1726
02:36:20,760 --> 02:36:27,520
there are all kinds of issues with the magnolias that were taken out to build this new development,

1727
02:36:28,180 --> 02:36:36,020
the library, parking lot, retail, et cetera, or a building, certainly will be missed. But

1728
02:36:37,040 --> 02:36:43,860
I think the ministerial approval, I think one thing to really think about very clearly is that

1729
02:36:43,860 --> 02:36:55,220
But kind of almost predetermined candidate to be that head of this body, his family's

1730
02:36:56,040 --> 02:36:59,880
commercial interests are housed in a building that was one of the redevelopment buildings

1731
02:36:59,880 --> 02:37:06,720
that was built only by this process of heavily relying on public funding of these buildings.

1732
02:37:07,600 --> 02:37:13,700
And one thing that does to the local economy is it makes it kind of just like you can't

1733
02:37:13,700 --> 02:37:19,020
park in any buddy's backyard anymore because that purported backyard, which is public space,

1734
02:37:19,440 --> 02:37:25,440
which is being projected as their backyard. There's no longer any interstitial space,

1735
02:37:25,440 --> 02:37:33,240
and you have to take out trees to build anything new. And the money behind it, the motive behind it,

1736
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:42,400
while altruistic motives for affordable housing are really what pushes it through often the

1737
02:37:43,700 --> 02:37:45,960
The amount of money that's being made is kind of obscene.

1738
02:37:46,060 --> 02:37:52,460
Down in L.A., they criticize some of the gubernatorial candidates are criticizing the fact

1739
02:37:52,460 --> 02:37:56,740
that they, you know, this is probably a huge exaggeration, but they're saying they spend

1740
02:37:56,740 --> 02:38:00,720
a million dollars per homeless person to deal with homelessness down there.

1741
02:38:00,860 --> 02:38:04,840
And in some ways, you know, this state is very interconnected and, you know, you're looking

1742
02:38:04,840 --> 02:38:10,500
at, well, okay, you're spending, you know, something on that scale to just help each individual

1743
02:38:10,500 --> 02:38:17,300
unit that ends up costing at market, you know, the market payment for those units are in

1744
02:38:17,300 --> 02:38:23,000
the thousands per month, whereas the low-income fraction, you know, that money is being

1745
02:38:23,000 --> 02:38:29,700
provided by taxes. And so it's a steam-rolling kind of effect, and I think ministerial approval,

1746
02:38:29,700 --> 02:38:35,560
which will be passed on to Ryan, I mean, almost inevitably, I mean, I'll buy anybody

1747
02:38:35,560 --> 02:38:42,600
lunch at Denny's who uh you know uh wants to bet you know that um yeah I mean you know I

1748
02:38:42,600 --> 02:38:48,060
just foregone conclusion we don't we don't have it we don't have anybody uh that uh you know

1749
02:38:48,060 --> 02:38:52,160
feasibly is gonna gonna win so you have four years of Ryan Coonerty who's gonna be

1750
02:38:52,680 --> 02:38:57,020
rubber stamping all kinds of stuff I suppose I don't know that's just what it seems like from the

1751
02:38:57,020 --> 02:39:04,660
public perspective thank you well thank you anyone else matters back before the money

1752
02:39:04,660 --> 02:39:07,660
pleasure of the body. Councilmember O'Hara is recognized.

1753
02:39:08,200 --> 02:39:11,900
Thank you. I have a motion mayor that I'm hoping the clerk will bring up.

1754
02:39:18,880 --> 02:39:21,560
Before I start reading through it, I'll note that it is

1755
02:39:22,340 --> 02:39:29,380
taken from staff's recommendation. What's in bold or I guess underlined is new and there's also

1756
02:39:29,380 --> 02:39:34,920
a strikeout. So motion to direct staff to proceed with a proposed direction for the design guidelines

1757
02:39:34,920 --> 02:39:40,400
and priorities handout. That remains the same. Further develop the handout for engagement with design

1758
02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:45,640
professionals, the community, and the architectural review committee, including guidance on preferred

1759
02:39:45,640 --> 02:39:51,600
design and architectural approaches, re-established a new housing ad hoc committee, comprised of

1760
02:39:51,600 --> 02:39:57,440
Vice Mayor Colin Tarar Johnson, Council Member O'Hara and Council Member Newsom for no more than

1761
02:39:58,240 --> 02:40:06,460
12 months, with a specific focus and the only focus serve as a council liaison to this effort and

1762
02:40:06,460 --> 02:40:36,240
and receive updates and help guide the development of recommendations related to the design guidelines and priorities and out for the county city council's consideration convene a council study session or regular city council meeting general business item and fall of 2026 to present the city that sorry to present council housing ad hoc committee recommendations and receive council policy direction on design priorities return to council following the fall 2026 council.

1763
02:40:36,240 --> 02:40:41,640
discussion with recommendations for council priority setting coupled with incentives for

1764
02:40:41,640 --> 02:40:46,820
complying with these priorities and with potential implementation options based on feedback

1765
02:40:46,820 --> 02:40:53,260
from that council housing ad hoc committee. Number six remains the same as staff.

1766
02:40:53,700 --> 02:41:00,140
It's a recommendation to not further explore the feasibility expanding the downtown density bonus

1767
02:41:00,140 --> 02:41:06,660
this concept and other areas of the city strike the next one from explore to concept.

1768
02:41:07,460 --> 02:41:12,660
And then the last one also remains the same prepared draft updates to the heritage tree

1769
02:41:12,660 --> 02:41:17,560
regulations for housing development projects and direct staff to return to council with

1770
02:41:17,560 --> 02:41:19,440
the proposed ordinance in fall of 2026.

1771
02:41:20,420 --> 02:41:22,140
There's a motion is there a second?

1772
02:41:22,240 --> 02:41:22,620
One second.

1773
02:41:22,900 --> 02:41:23,980
There's a motion now a second.

1774
02:41:24,100 --> 02:41:26,200
Councilmember Ohera, you may open on your motion.

1775
02:41:26,660 --> 02:41:27,040
Thank you.

1776
02:41:27,040 --> 02:41:32,360
And even though we've only had a couple people make comments today, I think Mayor, your

1777
02:41:34,580 --> 02:41:40,280
questions about this pathway for ministerial approvals are very much in line with the

1778
02:41:40,280 --> 02:41:42,240
catalyst of this recommendation.

1779
02:41:42,480 --> 02:41:50,100
And I also think the comments from our Vice Mayor and the comments from Rafa were in a very

1780
02:41:50,100 --> 02:41:59,640
interesting time here in terms of how do we continue to try to thread the needle of maintaining

1781
02:41:59,640 --> 02:42:07,240
some level of influence on how our built environment is going to look when we have had almost

1782
02:42:07,240 --> 02:42:09,060
everything stripped away, right?

1783
02:42:09,700 --> 02:42:16,180
I think everything, all the motions that were included in 2025 that ended up being reported

1784
02:42:16,180 --> 02:42:25,540
it on today came from me in some certain motion amendments and in large part what I have

1785
02:42:25,540 --> 02:42:32,760
been trying to do over the last year is figure out if there are approaches that we can

1786
02:42:32,760 --> 02:42:41,000
be taking to incentivize our local development community as well as others that are obviously

1787
02:42:41,000 --> 02:42:48,280
not based on Santa Cruz that are building here to build what we want to see, and I realize

1788
02:42:48,280 --> 02:42:55,140
we have very little influence, but is there a way for us to do a couple things?

1789
02:42:55,980 --> 02:43:00,520
So I'm going to go kind of through what we're trying to do with these ads.

1790
02:43:02,160 --> 02:43:08,940
One, be much more deliberate about this conversation and question about what is the character

1791
02:43:08,940 --> 02:43:14,680
of Santa Cruz. I mean every time we have these conversations with our community members

1792
02:43:14,680 --> 02:43:20,120
on singular development projects, the feedback that we got get is this is not in character

1793
02:43:20,120 --> 02:43:26,100
with Santa Cruz. What does that mean? I don't, I can't say what that means but I do think

1794
02:43:26,100 --> 02:43:31,740
we have subject matter experts in our community that can help us and that can guide that conversation.

1795
02:43:31,740 --> 02:43:39,420
So the first ad for number two is really tightening up the process, it's not much different

1796
02:43:39,420 --> 02:43:45,400
than what staff recommended, but leveraging the architectural review committee that was

1797
02:43:45,400 --> 02:43:51,560
appointed after the downtown plan expansion, urban designers, other professionals, and

1798
02:43:51,560 --> 02:43:57,660
working with the community to try to help take the next several months to get to this question

1799
02:43:57,660 --> 02:44:03,680
of what do we want Santa Cruz to look like but from an architectural perspective, from

1800
02:44:03,680 --> 02:44:07,820
an urban design perspective, from a built environment perspective.

1801
02:44:08,080 --> 02:44:09,680
So that's step number one.

1802
02:44:10,580 --> 02:44:16,860
Step number two really separates out what do we want to do in terms of our design priorities

1803
02:44:16,860 --> 02:44:20,760
with what's the right process to leverage that, right?

1804
02:44:21,220 --> 02:44:22,460
I don't think those should be coupled.

1805
02:44:22,460 --> 02:44:30,760
I think we need to have a conversation with a community about what will make us get as far as we

1806
02:44:30,760 --> 02:44:36,180
possibly can in the conversation around what our built environment should look like. And we should

1807
02:44:36,180 --> 02:44:41,360
talk about that and we should decouple that from how to get there. Because I think that that creates

1808
02:44:41,360 --> 02:44:46,680
a lot of the political challenges that we are experiencing. So that's that next step, that council

1809
02:44:46,680 --> 02:44:53,700
study session or a robust general business item to get to what did that architecture review

1810
02:44:53,700 --> 02:44:58,360
committee say, what did the community say, what did the urban design professionals say

1811
02:44:58,360 --> 02:44:59,980
about all of the different...

1812
02:45:02,080 --> 02:45:29,860
What should that built environment look like that preserves the character as much as we possibly can? So that's the study session. Then returned to council after that study session and staff has worked their magic to figure out and get to the point of what you're talking about mayor. Is the ministerial approach appropriate? Are there other approaches? What is the magic configuration that will get to what Rafa talked about?

1813
02:45:29,860 --> 02:45:33,060
which I think is a really important argument, right?

1814
02:45:33,940 --> 02:45:42,840
We have zero influence over these high density, you know, development projects.

1815
02:45:43,400 --> 02:45:45,240
Can we have 10% influence?

1816
02:45:45,620 --> 02:45:46,240
Can we have 20?

1817
02:45:46,680 --> 02:45:47,200
Can we have 50?

1818
02:45:47,740 --> 02:45:50,500
You know, I want to have that conversation and how do we get there?

1819
02:45:51,100 --> 02:45:56,140
So that's the next one and then the rest of it is either remaining the same and the strike

1820
02:45:56,140 --> 02:46:01,180
through is it's duplicative now because it's been replaced by a new one. Thank you.

1821
02:46:03,560 --> 02:46:11,160
I have a clarifying question for this motion on number three.

1822
02:46:13,620 --> 02:46:15,960
My understanding is that we

1823
02:46:15,960 --> 02:46:26,340
have a current council housing ad hoc committee. It says to establishing new council ad hoc housing

1824
02:46:26,340 --> 02:46:27,400
adding ad hoc committee.

1825
02:46:27,900 --> 02:46:30,880
That's correct, Council Member Bruner, I appreciate the question.

1826
02:46:31,040 --> 02:46:36,520
The intent here is to replace the existing ad hoc committee with this new ad hoc committee.

1827
02:46:37,480 --> 02:46:42,940
By state law, ad hoc committees have to be limited in duration and specific in terms of

1828
02:46:42,940 --> 02:46:43,280
scope.

1829
02:46:43,700 --> 02:46:48,780
So the original ad hoc committee's work has been completed and what's being proposed here

1830
02:46:48,780 --> 02:46:52,580
are the specific purposes that are outlined in the motion.

1831
02:46:53,600 --> 02:46:54,340
Thank you.

1832
02:46:54,340 --> 02:46:57,700
the questions comments

1833
02:47:01,190 --> 02:47:09,790
anybody yes we look at me well I can understand how that

1834
02:47:09,790 --> 02:47:14,990
would be a difficult thing to do I understand that we have a moment and a second

1835
02:47:14,990 --> 02:47:20,790
let me see if there's anybody wish to comment on the item all right matter for

1836
02:47:20,790 --> 02:47:24,990
the debate or discussion seen here and none clerk will call the bill.

1837
02:47:25,710 --> 02:47:26,670
Councilmember Tugaro.

1838
02:47:26,950 --> 02:47:27,090
Aye.

1839
02:47:27,670 --> 02:47:28,030
Reiner.

1840
02:47:28,670 --> 02:47:29,030
Aye.

1841
02:47:29,430 --> 02:47:29,690
Houston.

1842
02:47:29,870 --> 02:47:30,070
Aye.

1843
02:47:30,650 --> 02:47:30,950
Older.

1844
02:47:31,390 --> 02:47:31,870
Sahara.

1845
02:47:32,050 --> 02:47:32,230
Aye.

1846
02:47:32,450 --> 02:47:33,550
Vice Mayor Kalantar Johnson.

1847
02:47:33,750 --> 02:47:33,930
Aye.

1848
02:47:34,210 --> 02:47:34,690
Mary Peeley.

1849
02:47:34,890 --> 02:47:35,010
Aye.

1850
02:47:35,650 --> 02:47:35,770
Aye.

1851
02:47:36,090 --> 02:47:37,330
Motion passes and scored.

1852
02:47:38,910 --> 02:47:39,750
For the business.

1853
02:47:40,010 --> 02:47:40,110
No.

1854
02:47:40,570 --> 02:47:41,150
For the business.

1855
02:47:41,510 --> 02:47:41,670
No.

1856
02:47:42,610 --> 02:47:47,970
Motion adjourned by Councilmember Golder who is already out of her sheet and ready to leave.

1857
02:47:48,570 --> 02:47:49,050
Let me see.

1858
02:47:49,190 --> 02:47:51,330
Anybody else out of their seat and ready to leave?

1859
02:47:51,450 --> 02:47:54,430
Well, Mr. Newsom is almost out of his seat and ready to leave.

1860
02:47:54,430 --> 02:48:02,030
is the second non-debatable, those in favor signify by saying aye, opposed, motion carries, and so what do we stand adjourned?

1861
02:48:02,590 --> 02:48:03,110
Thank you.

1862
02:48:03,690 --> 02:48:04,230
Thank you.

1863
02:48:11,080 --> 02:48:13,080
We have such smart staff people.

1864
02:48:13,560 --> 02:48:13,720
Thank you.

1865
02:48:13,720 --> 02:48:18,380
Lord, their majestic Marty Banzos are so good for us.