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regarding reducing speed limit well
again we're just revisiting the
conversation and this evening Mr
caruccio and Mr Wallen along with I
think a guest right because semestriani
um I'm going to be presenting the data
that we can take out from the East Road
nodes as well as a couple of others okay
oh this talks loud into the world in the
hotel
then you can't hear
okay I talked gladly anyways
uh all right so we were asked was that
um
what we did is we focused with Kings
Road uh at first we asked Fred mastroni
fcm engineering to do a traffic study
based on some of the information that we
got from our Optical sensors that Mr
coluccio presented to you at the
previous meeting so I'd introduced Fred
who can talk to you about a little bit
about traffic engineering some of the
constraints and some of the things that
he has he has some handouts and so thank
you great everybody thank you for the
opportunity to talk about Kenny's roads
decision
some photographs and kind of give you an
idea what what the bill looks like for
some of the characteristics of the road
um
so whenever whenever we're looking at a
speed limit at any given Road there's
two different manuals that are typically
used by Traffic Engineers one is the
interior state supplement to the manual
of uniform traffic control devices for
two separate manuals there's a general
one for the national New York state has
a supplement and how because we are
staying it was different from other
states so the different criterias we
look at one of the criterias is looking
at the speed of the traffic John
provided me a lot of data regarding
speed limits so we look at the 85th
percentile speed is one option one one
Avenue determine post three that the
other factors include the roadway
characteristics but how how it functions
what's it will function as you look at
the development adjacent to the road
what is it residential is it a
commercial what type of road do we have
on-screen parking do we have pedestrian
activity and what are the crash history
yeah we look at crash data over a
certain comparative years to see if
there's any data that says people are
driving too fast and therefore as a
result of the accidents so as far as the
roadway conditions I'll walk you through
a little bit of what of this so This
these photographs that I took they start
at the Kings Road bridge heading towards
uh Albany Street you can kind of see the
basically the road is a Tulane Highway
we've got double yellow Center Line with
Edge lines the Rope was relatively
narrow it's not very very wide according
to the statistics that I've got it's
about 20 feet wide so this area there's
not a lot of pedestrian activities you
can tell but if you go to the next
photograph
which is near the intersection of Queen
filamenta Boulevard yeah you see a
sidewalk on the east side of the road
and the other side is nothing not
nothing there as far as pedestrian
activity and if you look at the
photographs it keeps going down the
third one is which 403 is by constant
Road as you can see the road is very
straight flat there's only one curve uh
that's another prior picture by the
Kingsway Village that's got an old
village sharp curve as a matter of fact
you can see a Chevron in one of the
photographs but everything is pretty
much straight and flat so if you look at
photo four this is by the Windermere
Road intersection where we have a
crosswalk
and there's a sign for The Pedestrian
Crossing
and the last World is but really
straight as we get closer to all mystery
so I kind of wanted to give you a
picture I know I'm sure I'll be familiar
with King's robe I think it's nice to
give you an overall picture of what the
roadway looks like
um so as far as the world records is
like I said there's two planes of travel
each lane is about 10 feet wide one side
of the road we have a continuous
sidewalk which is five feet wide on the
other side is mainly a very little
pedestrian activity but there is a
section of it
um so kind of gives you an idea of how
this pedestrian traffic if you will is
generated the overall length of King's
Road from the bridge to Albany streets
about 0.81 miles and one interesting
fact is there's roughly around 20 000
cars a day that travel on King's Road so
it's a high volume traffic and that's
why it's kind of the functional
classification of the road is called an
urban collector Road what that basically
means is it does serves two purposes it
connects people from within their
Community but also has Vehicles going
from one area to another then from
Rotterdam to State Street and so on so
and and looking at the traffic is very
much with 20 000 cars day most of them
are commuter commuter traffic so there's
not a lot of stuff I'm going to attend
to go one of the interesting things
about Kings Road is
there is no control Atkins world the
only control is on assessments there's
stop signs and all along each side
street and of course at the intersection
without any Street there's a traffic
signal which is the beginning of it so
the reason why I bring that up is if
you're having fun if you're driving on
Kings Road the only time you really need
to slow down is if people are turning
into a driveway or turning into an
intersection for the most part
you know it's free flowing when you're
looking at the 85th percentile it's been
like John gave me traffic data which
says the 85th percentile speed is
anywhere between 32 and 34 miles per
hour and for those of you who don't know
any 50 percent top speed is it means
like 85 percent of traffic is traveling
at that speed or less in traffic
engineering that's one of one of the
critical factors if you will then be
used for roadway design traffic signs
and so on but the nice thing about that
information is we got that information
through John but just remember that that
is uh data that collects for every
single vehicle so if I'm driving down
the road I need to take a right or a
left that data that number is collected
what we do as Traffic Engineers we do a
follow-up study which is which is sort
of you you're you follow the vehicles
that are traveling that are going from
one point to another that don't stop
that's because we're talking about
free-flowing traffic that's what you
base your 85 percent that's been on and
I did that on a Saturday for about four
hours I followed Cars one direction to
follow cars the other direction a 34 or
35 miles per hour seems to be the
so the right number so the data that
John provided me it was pretty
consistent with what I found what I did
the did the study
so crash history now we we got data for
52 months and I looked at every single
police accident report that I was given
and I said well why what's what's the
per why are we having these actions a
lot of it is just drivers are just not
careful uh they're you know they're either turning into a driveway
they slow down and they had a vehicle
behind them doesn't see it but not one
traffic accident really uh well I'll
take that back there was one accident
that was due to a vehicle driving very
fast
but that vehicle was being chased by the
police
but every all the other 25 crashes uh
there were nothing related to speed
um so again when we look at as Traffic
Engineers we look at the 850 percentile
speed we look at the roadway
characteristics which I just mentioned
there's also a program that the Federal
Highway Administration has developed
which kind of uses a several different
data and several different accidents
several different speeds and that data
kind of gives you a sort of recommended
speed and based upon that information
which is in your in the study it didn't
recommend uh lowering this the closest
speed limit
so when I looked at that road under its
current condition
um I don't as a traffic engineer I can't
recommend anything less than what's out
there now
uh so I don't recommend going to 25 I
recommend keeping it at 30.
so I guess I'll open up to questions but
uh that was this recommendation from the
study it's about me
um
I tend to agree about the speed limit
without enforcement it's kind of
meaningless so you mentioned the ability
to get cars to stop and are there areas
where a stop sign would be beneficial
that could interfere with Kings Road yes
so in that scenario what we would do is
we would not now we have traffic data on
the main line we would need to collect
traffic being on the side streets and
there are certain warrants to put an
all-way stop signs I think that's what
you're suggesting and we would look into
that and I most of those side streets
are don't generate a lot of traffic you
would think jobs and maybe even a little
bit more about the meeting I can tell
you my casual view of that you know
based on my knowledge of the city for so
many years I I would sincerely doubt
that any of those intersections would
meet the minimum volume requirements for
it but we will definitely look into it
and see and just just as another thing
to say is
I know some computers just put up stop
signs wherever they want but you have to
we have to be very careful because
whenever we put an additional like an
always stop sign and for some reason
it's not warranted and God forbid
something gets into a traffic accident
then we are liable for putting up a
traffic control side that shouldn't be
there so we have to be careful of that I
wasn't thinking necessarily so much as
the intersections as maybe
um kind of like Hamburg Street at the at
the end of the bridge
um that might be an incoming
um if that would be a good location or a
possibility so that would be by
um
right
that's that's one area where we can
collect the side street data and see
what
super could justify that or not
although that's sort of not I mean I
think when you're looking at reducing
speed sometimes the midpoint is the best
place obviously but yeah well obviously
without data we can't make a
determination right
so if you don't recommend us reducing
the speed limit to 25 or you know
whatever what would be your
recommendations for how we can
try to yeah one of the returns that our
residents have risked yeah um some of
the things that we look at as Traffic
Engineers we look at various traffic
calming measures
so I mean some some of the traffic
common measures may have seen some some
communities they have a Wide Travel Lane
they put Edge lines in they reduce the
width of the travel Lane we don't have
that here the traveling is narrow
already I mean it's actually 10 feet
which is very narrow I'm getting
narrower than we would want right to be
honest there is a lot of truck traffic
there so as a matter of fact if I don't
know if it knows but there's a photo the
first one that shows the trucks and you
can see that truck is pretty much
hugging the travel Lane yeah so that's
one option we you know we look at
there's a number of different things you
can look at you can look at
um you know Landscaping possibly adding
some trees that are not
to a point where they're creating a
problem we can look at
um
speed speed feedback science you know
where you put the speed signs up and
they tell you how fast you're driving
yeah one of the things I know when I
juice when I drive those I always slow
down yeah but sometimes what happens
with people is that if they'll slow down
in the beginning but we don't know how
effective it is over the long term but
that certainly is an option you know we
even talked about things like race
Crossings like looking at the
intersection and possibly raising it up
sort of create a I want to call it speed
Hub but create a sort of visual change
because right now that road is
relatively flat and straight if we
create some potential uh changes in this
geometry unit perhaps that'll slow it
down and if you do it for one
intersection that really is it that may
slow down for that particular
instruction but you have to look at a
lot so there's other things we can look
at and none of these that I mentioned
means that we are applicable to this it
was something in front of another study
looking at different traffic calling
measures
yeah
and uh thank you madam president we're
the discussion is focused somewhat on
King's Road
we get feedback across the city so you
know some of this is what you can do at
Kings Road what you can't do there uh
are the things that we should look to do
on Kings Road but there would also be
applicable at other places throughout
the city and
you know there's the feeder road is am I
using the correct term Peter streets or
roads uh you know the main ones and how
do we balance that where you know we
want traffic to move in a safe and
efficient manner but but at the same
time we don't want people
using poor judgment where they're
speeding and how do we get that
across in terms of design teachers
signage
enforcement
and just general education of the public
I mean there's certain some things maybe
when you do in the city's website we can
certainly uh provide some of the
information because driver behavior is
what really what we're talking about
people will drive fast because it's
straight it's flat
um and some people are good then you
know they don't use it but for the most
part that's what happens so we can
possibly put some information on the
website hopefully the city of residents
will look at that and say hey this is
some of the issues for example I've got
there's a study that says if you're
driving 30 miles per hour and you hit a
person
there's a 45 chance that person is going
to not make it right but if that driver
is driving 25 right
instead of 30 there's a greater chance
that person is going to make and he's
going to get hurt he or she but they're
not good enough so that's the kind of
data we can certainly put on the city's
website that would be helpful and
beneficial uh
I don't see why not right and maybe I
don't know about the motor vehicles if
we if we share that data with them as
well so whenever somebody comes in and
wants to get a license you know as part
of that perhaps that information could
be given to them it's always good it's
just we have to keep we have to have
people understand what the ramifications
are whenever they drive it too fast and
they hit something specifically a
pedestrian or a bicyclist
and so that may be an option
um so right now you well let me just say
that you both you and Mr paluccio said
that that was like third between 32 and
34 and I think some of us have gotten
um information from from residents
they're using a handheld speed yeah I
don't know what you call it okay
um to and it's like registering in 40.
so it's can you well yeah when we talk
about 85th percentile speed we're saying
that people at 85 percent of traffic is
traveling at that speed or less and if
we look at the traveling data that John
provided there's certainly people are
driving through 40
45. but the problem is you can't design
for that kind of a you know or you can't
put traffic signs based on that you have
to you know you have to assume based
upon 85 percent of traffic no less like
for somebody may drive 100 miles per
hour you're not going to design a road
for that that's the kind of theory
behind it so that's where the male
uniform traffic control device is it's
important because it's a specific
standard that's used Nationwide so we're
not doing anything special here before
yeah just clear this up though yeah if
the speed data came back and said that
the average 85th percentile speed on the
road was 45 yes
would you recommend reducing it to 25
yeah
that's more we have to you have to
reduce the speed to be able to meet the
American can reduce the speed to get the
outcome that it's reverse of what you'd
like to think right you'd be looking for
it because if they're driving that fast
there's no way they were going to be
able to get them down to that speed
because people drive out of speed
they're comfortable at right and that's
part of the issue and just so you know
I'll get a timeline space study for the
East Greenbush and we had the same
issues right right so the end result was
you know on residential streets meaning
like if I I was raised in cusoe Avenue
Bay you know between van break and
Avenue and Avenue a or Avenue B we got
blocks of streets that are not very long
you're not very early you're going to
get people to drive from one one to
another at that rate of speed at 35.4
they're going to drive slower so those
are the type of streets that I think the
city should think consider potentially
reducing the postal speed limit from 30
to 25. but whenever you're looking at a
collector Road where you have you know
fifteen twenty thousand cars going from
one point to another uh it makes it it
makes it difficult I think they need to
consider it so in a screen Bush we
looked at all the residential streets
that's and we said okay we got traffic
data similar to a job providing me here
and the 85th percentile speed and was
anywhere between 25 and 30 miles per
hour so it kind of made sense but
whenever there's Collective rows in the
town of course there's State highways we
didn't have any jurisdiction
um so that's kind of the the logic
behind that and I think we may want to
consider that here as well
so next steps in general one other
question that I had was just did you
want to do the data from the other
couple of streets that you mentioned
rugby or something so we do have some
data that we collected from Albany
Street and from Rugby Road
um to be quite honest with you there
were some outliers that they gave us
that I wasn't happy with
um but I I can tell you overall the
Rugby Road I think the 85th percentile
was about 32 33 miles per hour 233 miles
an hour and Albany Street I think was a
little higher a little higher right I
was in the four I think it was all four
days it might even have been 40 miles an
hour and I just saw the data yesterday
and and I did look at rugby I'm familiar
Rugby Road Rugby Road is basically 36
foot wide from Curb to curb and you
can't park on both sides of the road as
you know
so there's some there may be some minor
things we could do to potentially reduce
the speed on that like for example if we
decided to put double yellow center
lines and Edge lines because think about
it in front of it it's 36 feet wide and
that's 10 o'clock in the morning
nobody's parked on the road you've got a
wide payment but if we somehow
channelize that if you will some people
will stay within the lane there's a
possibility that they're going to drive
a little slower 10 miles per hour slower
I don't know but that's the kind of
thing maybe that's that and that is by
the way uh not a local Road it's not a
collector room so it's one of those
streets where in my mind as a traffic
engineer I would say that may be a good
possibility but we got to do something
we can't believe it the way it is and
expect people to drive at 25 miles per
hour so the treatment that we would look
at for roads are based on their
characteristics right now why they are
what kind of traffic that they
um cover you know turning vehicle
movements might be something we want to
look at to see you know what we can do
maybe bump outs maybe you know different
things that we can look at but it's
based on the individual uh
characteristics whereas the Kings Road
as far as the you know the right-of-way
there were somewhat limited with what we
have I think all Industries actually
functions in Atlanta arterial which is a
pretty high functionality and I don't
think you're going to get a screen it's
connected as a higher function except
maybe State Street but that's got a lot
of traffic and there's a lot of people
going from one point to another now so
that would be very difficult to consider
reducing the 25 miles per hour
Mr Walling you oh all right you talked
about um putting in there was on the
crosswalk that was going to go in are we
talking about the same crosswalk here or
were you talking about that actually
another one there is a new crosswalk
that we're looking to put in and I
believe it what picture of the picture I
believe
it
so right around the curve area of the
picture too right uh by the Kingsway
Village sign at a queen film man oh
right here yeah um cross Kings there
that's one that's the location that
we're looking to put in but essentially
is a mid block so that crosswalk there
will have a 388 Rams two at the corner
one uh Kings Where the Sidewalk is we'll
have to ramp down we'll have crosswalk
signs pointing then we'll have 100 feet
away crosswalk ahead signs
while it is new we're gonna have Flags
um the flags will be on there or people
of being a new Crossing
um so that's what we're looking at at
this time Cowan ends up in the mobilize
action in the next couple of weeks and
that area is getting paid for new
filming and all that so it's going to be
part of that program so yeah that is one
of the things that we are doing
hopefully something more visual try to
break up the monotony the flatness there
yeah
of that I mean just the issue with this
is uh you know I spoke about it last
time you talked about the the three E's
of Education enforcement and Engineering
um the engineering on this particular
road is hard because of we already have
what would be an engineered roadway we
have curves we have narrow Lanes we have
strong Street trees on the side we have
a low speed limit you know but we're
fighting it's flat it's straight and uh
and it is a 20 000 car a day uh you know
collector so we're fighting that now to
rugby Craig Street would be an example
you know those streets are more of a
canvas that haven't had any investment
in them they're wide we're looking to do
treatments there to try to reduce speeds
there as well but we don't have
that afternoon here but this is already
you know this is already kind of you
know what we would want to make it and
you know that was it sounds uh it sounds
odd to say that you know we have a an
issue with speeds being a little high
and I want to put in trees but you know
the idea is it's already an area Court
how can we make it feel narrower you
know how can we make people do it
um you know I know someone may ask you
know uh speed bumps D tables
um vibrations I have gotten multiple
complaints from residents on this
stretch about vibrations there is trucks
on this stretch when you introduce
something like that you're going to
introduce more vibration and and more of
that this is also a route that I would
deem as
emergency but it's a critical route like
Fred was saying it's not a local route
it's not something that if you want the
traffic to go onto a road we would like
to go on to Kings we would hate to have
somebody say I'm not going to drive on
Kings I'm going to drive on the
neighboring streets and the residential
streets now you have people cutting
through because if you were to go with
the blocks over those are very long
extreme streets as well so someone will
be coming down Albany they'll take that
left they'll go down the residential
street to avoid the you know the traffic
calming devices that we would have put
and they come out of McDonald's so it's
not a lot of alternative routes to take
that are comparable to Kim's room either
right that's one of the issues and why
we have it's a volume really if you
think about it that is part of the issue
right the 20 000 Vehicles a thing uh an
odd thing that could occur I mean maybe
naturally is that we were talking this
road will close essentially the bridge
will close January 15th and be closed
for a period of nine months
um alternate routes will be marked and
need to be seen maybe as a result
traffic will stay even if it was 10 20
percent that would be a significant
amount that would seek can stay on the
alternate routes I don't know
um conversely you will have a new bridge
so maybe people will feel that they can
drive over the new bridge but for uh for
those nine months the road will be I'm
guessing it will be very quiet for
people on King's Road as that would
become essentially a dead neighborhoods
at the crosswalk just um I know that we
can't do stop signs or any of that stuff
but is there any way that we could put a
traffic device like a flashing light
just to make people aware that people
are crossing here because what we're
hearing from residents is that people
that's it's dangerous to cross so when
if that's an opportunity if we're going
to be putting it across logs just let
people know I understand about well it
doesn't sound like there's a lot of room
even for that little yeah they're
definitely gonna look at it it is
possible but like you just said the
right of way it's very limited there so
you have to take a look and see if we
actually have the real estate there to
do that
[Applause]
and now you're getting you know a sign
being back are we there can you keep the
sidewalk clear you know there's a lot of
things it's similarly uh on Broadway we
used to have a flashing rapid beacon on
Broadway
um with the constraints of the new ones
we couldn't fit a new one there which is
why we had to go to the side location so
they're not the end-all be-all they
can't just you know be thrown in we
aren't going to look at it they do make
solar ones that are available so we did
discuss looking into it okay yeah like
this is a it's going to be like a
typical side you'd see at the crosswalk
yeah but we can certainly put Flags
around it just there's another visual
launch blocks are good because the
visibility you can see them at night so
there's little things like that we could
do will that will that slow traffic down
well let's hope
so
Miss Patrick
well I mean we've been talking about
this for you know since forever
um it was it early last summer I think
of 2022 where you know we have a meeting
here with
the chief Now assistant chief Whipple as
well talking about the enforcement piece
we had some ideas there
um Mr Paul Minnie brought up all sorts
of ways of using some of our technology
on our traffic signals you know that
kind of thing um at some point I can't
remember when that was but looking at
those traffic calming measures as well
certainly bringing this up when we did
bring it up we I never thought that we
were going to be doing it throughout the
city it really was about you know in
terms of the 25 mile per hour it was
just gosh we're all getting
calls from residents all the time we got
to figure out something that's going to
help try to control behavior and um it
does come down to the behavior to me I
agree that I think that it's an
Enforcement issue a lot of times
um so how do we you know put limited
Staffing there
um figure something out as well when
there's other you know issues that
um end up taking priority for our for
our police force so I guess I'm just
looking for you know sort of
we can't do something overall but these
recommendations that we've all been
making now for a while I just want to be
able to try to have
not closure necessarily it's always
going to have to be reevaluated but but
we did talk about the potential to use
cameras for speed control
legislation was requested from the state
on that I know did that ever happen or
not sure if that ever happened or not
but yeah I think that's what one of the
things that we need to happen before we
could even evaluate it was for us to be
able to come become legally allowed to
do that
Miss Williams oh so I wonder firstly
would thank you for gathering this data
I think oftentimes when I request this
type of information regardless of the
outcome I think it's important to
understand that it has a certain
expectation or a
certain amount of hours that it takes to
compile this information so I appreciate
you having this uh definitely I
understand from a data standpoint the 85
percentile you have to stay within like
that sort of framework to understand how
to implement the right decision but I
think it's also important to highlight
that further residents that doesn't
accurately assess the The Growing Pains
or the lived experience that they're
dealing with so similar to miss
Patrick's Point I know you highlighted
some potential measures that we could
Implement I think there was three of
them this speed feedback signs planting
trees and the repayment repainting of
the rides I I can imagine being a
resident area like planting trees might
not sound like a real estate solution
but I think if it's within the scope of
your practice saying that this is an
available option for us can you give us
a potential timeline for implementing
either of those three if not into
accounting
I mean I guess the part of the reason
why betrays are are part of a traffic
conversation as you all know when you're
driving along the road you see as you
just want to know about implementing yes
sir yeah so uh we can look at it and for
the video counting will be on site you
know Callahan does have any Striker and
you have a company that does Landscaping
through them so we can evaluate it
um you know we would have to look uh
some of the locations would have to be
identified make sure they're not in
conflict with utilities and to make sure
the right way is there but we're open I
mean like the crosswalk is going to
happen we're going to look into the uh
solar and some of those other things but
we we won't we don't have to sit on this
it's just you know it's something that
Fred luckily is uh here to assist us as
in lieu of staff so to speak
um so you know he's been helping a lot
kind of just to give him credit he's
been helping us with North College which
is you know the yeoman's effort to work
down there on The Stockade and get that
done so that's been going well um so I
think you know him and I are up to the
task of implementing this I think we can
do something now is the planting season
if we were actually applying tree so
we'd want to hop on that but we could
look at it
with Clifton Park they've stopped quite
a number of
rrsps they're called the rapid
reflective uh Flash and beacons where
pedestrians would walk up to it it's it doesn't stay on doesn't there
are some that just continue blinking
what happens with that people just
ignore them so it's not going to
pedestrian is coming close to it they
should push the button when they push
the button that thing flashes and those
are really effective right my opinion
that may be an option here too for the
other classroom and make it on soil
which is great because it's much smaller
through exactly yeah you're probably
looking at anywhere 10 to 15 000 per
intersection it's not those but that's
another traffic calming measure that
they could so you can consider
so basically we're down in the
behavioral change or enforcement yeah so
several years ago there was a study I
believe an engineering study at uh I
think in Sweden
um basically they created this system
where the crate behavioral change they
had a monitor got the speed limit if you
did the speed limit you were entered
into a lottery if you weren't you got a
ticket that money was used to fund the
lottery
um
could that be something you could look
into as perhaps something that we might
be able to use on certain avenues like
state or Airy Boulevard
so I have to find out more about it but
I promise
the state legislation allowing some of
that as well right but it doesn't make
sense to move forward if you don't think
it's a yeah I think driver behavior is
huge is somehow we can go to motor
vehicles and all these places that you
know especially when they're young when
you're a young person and you're getting
your license you've got to figure out a
way to wrote it it's not just about you know it's about the rest of the
public how can we get people to slow
down please I mean enforcement is
obviously a big part of it but you know
we all know there's no way we're going
to be able to enforce every single Road
in the city's connect we just don't have
the you know the resources so the
behavior is huge and I'll I probably
shouldn't say this but I'll say it as an
individual when I you know again it's
attractive it doesn't reflect on
anything we've done but I see a speed
limit sign I see 30 miles per hour
because what I'm going to do was
everybody how fast you're gonna drive
35.39 because you know at 39 you're not
going to get full coverage you go 40.
well I think but you don't have to you
shouldn't do that but that's what people
think
and I think that's what we've seen in
the studies
per hour um speed limit and especially
around The Pedestrian deaths that it
does seem to look make people go a
little bit you know that even that five
miles slower
um
uh bring it down the only other thing I
just want to say before we move on our
other people talk but
um is the fact that with some of this
stuff I mean I would think that there's
probably some immediacy around the
budget planning for 2024 as well so
um I think we're going to need to know
some of these um pieces that you guys
have brought up and as Paul many has
talked about you know
unfortunately pretty quickly or even if
there is an enforcement piece so and one
of the things I was going to point out
and this is engineer hat just to bring
you into our world on it it is called
the manual of uniform traffic control
devices and I don't think that people
appreciate those signs and how those
signs get into place especially in a
city you tend to get a little
ordered out with signs and things you
have a lot for if you were to uh you
know go I don't think we're at this
level yet but go to Stanton County
Saratoga counties and the counties and
look at a sign and look at the back of
that sign and one of the new policies
that all the counties are doing is each
sign is GPS barcoded scanned and marked
into a system because those signs need
to be specific distances specific
locations as it turns into that
intersection that you know how far away
is it school bus areas schools of
everything is now now they're actually
gising everything in the county level
because those Signs Now are
it's a traffic control device it is not
a speed control measure it is not a it's
not something that you just will you
know you know put down because you're
right right everybody probably sitting
in this room is thinking what we're
going to do on Kings Road is we're going
to lower the speed limit to 25 and just
like Fred said everyone's going to drive
six miles an hour over that now we're
going to drive 31 we did something
but that's not how we can put that sign
there so you have to do the study you
have to find this and if you have you
have to reduce it so now it's okay if
you want to do that how do we keep
reducing the speed but at some point you
run out and then you say well even if
you want to make it one way let's just
say in a magical world holy God that
road is going to be twice as fast now
you know and then you're going to get
that that actually having two-way makes
it slower right so there's only so much
that we can get to but I just wanted to
point out that sometimes when it comes
with a signage I think sometimes people
don't appreciate for that that manual
that's the size of a phone book and that
supplemental that's the size of a
smaller home and the county doesn't have
a refraction of the signs that we have
in the city which is for the right
person oh that's that's one of the
reasons but it's it's that important
stuff because they want to get those measurements
you're an engineer for a reason the same
reason why I'm not an engineer so I
think it's important when we're seeking
your judgment or feedback that we're
actually eating I definitely understand
that there are considerations from other
municipalities uh and I think getting
your opinion on those helps but looking
back at those three recommendations you
had similar to miss Patrick what do we
need to do as a council president
Quarterfield or Mr Mayor it's an
expedite getting quotes for those
because truly I think if you're
listening to members this one
portion of our community highlighting
that this is an issue but also for Point
Clarity you're not suggesting not
lowering speed limits in other areas you
just are waiting to have that data to
accurately understand what to yeah
so I know so I want to be clear the
crosswalk is already planned right right
and already funded as well yes okay so
for the other items we're talking about
would we you would have to actually plan
that and and do budget that is that
correct or if there's anything there
oh oh I love that
well we can talk about others all right
let's stay here let's stay here
so planting trees and striping all that
doesn't take anything no there's not
much
of that
things always come up during the year
that we want to do things like this for
um it's just getting the contractor on
board finding locations and the
coordination of it myself
now that being said one of the things
that we did talk about was like
more city-wide 25 mile per hour actually
looking at it there would be a
repercussions
the potential need for additional
dollars receiving between
if that happened right and the other
thing is when you look at what gets done
there you say hey we love that we wanted
50 other places then there'll be some
budget uh considerations right correct
same thing with
um you know
doing something like all morning did
where they would do a lot of traffic
control devices in their own area I mean
that was a million dollar
a focus in an area that's a that's a
separate animal so to speak that's not a
small isolated project I guess all right
so we're doing crosswalk and then you'll yeah Fred and I will look into
that and walk forward and maybe
we're also yeah we're going to go out we
want we want to check some other things
we want to see uh in the picture one of
the things we were noticing is we really
want to make sure psych distance is if
there's any Shrubbery or anything in the
right way if we could trim it to try to
make sure all of our lines are there
yeah we're not we're not saying that
that's it but we just want to make sure
that thank you it's worth getting as
much as we can
however if a tree is greater than four
inches in diameter guess what it's
called obstruction so the vehicle hits
that
there's it's just replication so we have
to make sure that we pull select trees
and we're not selecting trees that are
going to grow and create a problem on
another problem if you will so that's
something we can talk about yeah and how
soon could speak feedback signs be put
in
well PG has few feedback signs and I
think they've had them up I think yeah I
think and they did say that they were
one of the issues is they do
they work and then they kind of slowly
fade as people get used to them so I can
talk with a chief website about playing
this from back up
I sent both of you the video if you want
if you could pass out to him if you want
this actual paper just let me know and I
also recommend uh reaching out to uh
Jose Olivares at RPI one of the best
civil engineers in the world we worked
on the congestion pricing down in New
York and Grand Central Station he might
have some ideas too that maybe we're not
thinking of
three-dimensional hole I don't know
about that
all right any other questions
thank you for coming thank you thank you
John thanks Chris
all right the um bcni proposal has been
full from is being pulled from the
agenda yes sir
I'd like to call to order City
development and planning and we will
start with the follow-up on the Arca
contract with Carter
thank you
um I am giving an update on our funded
arfa applications and currently we have
six sub-recipients that are pending
pre-cons pre-contractual
um agreements required documents that
need submission right now pre-market has
met all of those requirements and that
is pending submission for corporate
Council review we have the Habitat for
Humanity they are still currently
missing majority of their documents
we've only received the application a
budget and two projects project
abstracts
um have reached out to Habitat so we are
currently are working or retrieving the
additional documents we have Hamilton
Hill Arts Center they are 99 ready to go
they are just missing their most recent
audit and proof of the insurance
coverage
um the Boys and Girls Club is missing
most of their documents we have only
received the application the site plan
and the budget and then we have the seat
Center they are you know they're almost
there they're just missing their
conflict of interest policy drug free
workplace policy anti-discrimination
policy whistleblower and promising
um sustainable plan post art book so
contact has been made
um and we are actively working to get
the remainder of the documents and in
the coming weeks
thank you all right so all the other
ones that you're not talking about
tonight are already they have everything
they need yes I will um Madam president
go back and check these are the ones
that were given to me by Anthony to do
active follow-up but I will go back to
the Cross RTS and um dot our eyes okay
and I know that bcni is not coming back
so we'll talk in the future uh about
what's going to happen with that yes
there are any questions about any
particular projects anyone
thank you all right thank you thank you
I know that everyone did get a follow-up
got follow-up information from the
electricity Co-op I think that probably
came today
um and we also um the YWCA as well
and
um they both
well they both said they um Wanted
extensions and additionally we were
talking about additional funding but we
would have to review those documents and
then discuss what the additional funding
could possibly look like but that that
discussion would not happen tonight but
I'd ask that you would review
um so we can we can have that discussion
on the next Maybe
hey
um Mr Wong call for public hearing
so this is a call for problems here in
the state to modify J Street between
Liberty Street and Union Street from a
one-way Street to a two-way street this
is part of the city's plan to better
connect downtown to Little Italy and
Mohawk Harbor it's tied in with the dri
project which we are starting design
with this year we're working with our
consultant as we speak on scope and fee
Department of State have signed off so
far there's another partner that we're
working on so this is his first stage
why we were waiting is the psap project
which has been going on you've noticed
the signals have been sitting dormant
for quite some time as we wait for
components the components are in John
has the signals working as of yesterday
four of the five are working they are
now coordinated they
um
PSAT program which was State safety
funding was able to replace
five outdated signals with new hardware
new units John has them all hooked up to
fiber they're coordinating with each
other so it's really a great thing for
the downtown and what we're ready to do
is call for public hearing and do this
and then when it is done we will strike
the road and open it up two-way for the
one block and in anticipation in the
future you'll be able to drive from this
location straight to notch Street
any questions
[Music]
I think there's gonna be parking on one
side I think parking on the post office
side the only real modifications I do
have to work with the post office this
is a tricky thing I'm gonna have to
reach out to them but it's it's
difficult to say this is what it is it
technically has not passed yet but uh
they have a mailbox I'm sure you're well
aware of it that you would drive up to
and now we'll be on the other side of
the street so they'd have to remove that
drive up mailbox that's really the only
big change and I'm sure a lot of people
such as myself are used to that mailbox
absolutely
any other questions
second all in favor all right thank you
Mr wall thank you
okay item number three is discussion uh
to amend resolution 2014-144
um
just regarding their desolate uh the
solution of the Schenectady local
Development Corporation we talked about
this a couple weeks ago back in 2014 the
there was a resolution pass resolution
2014 144.
and it's the sldc which was a
organization that did small loans to did
loans to small businesses dissolved and
when it dissolved there was a resolution
pass that
um gave the responsibility of taking
care of the outstanding loans and
mortgages to the city council
but
and then the mayor would you know sign
any documents but the city council does
not have that's an administrative
function the city council does not have
administrative abilities so at this
point in time I'm bringing forward that
we amend that resolution to that we um
actually turn those those duties over to
the city because there are some
outstanding loans and mortgages that we
could collect on
any questions
so if there are no questions and the
information's in your packet then
doesn't say the motion that we have to
do that
all's a favor okay thank you
four is a ceremonial Resolution For
Suicide Prevention month
September Suicide Prevention month and
uh I'd like to come in to recognize to
you know keep that awareness and have
invited uh Police Department fire
department also a local organization
uh item number five uh resolution
recognized in September 15th to October
15th is it's been Heritage Month Mr
Williams thank you so between the days
of September 15th and October 15th I'll
go around Hispanic uh definitely taking
the time to appreciate the contributions
that this community has made not only to
our countries more specifically to our
community I think is important
the next item on our agenda is to
discuss the Zoning for cannabis
dispensaries
vape shop we have been talking about
this and
um
the other left command meaning asked all
council members to students go to the
law office and have a discussion in
terms of what
how we would want to see this
um zoning within the city so I know some
council members were able to make it and
others weren't however at this point in
time the law department is ready to
provide us some information about their
recommendation sure and I know certain
Council people have reached like reached
out and were not able to connect with a
law department and obviously we're still
around to answer any questions you have
and talk about recommendations that we
have
um I think the general consensus from
the folks that and I know some of you
met with Deputy Court Council Marnie to
discuss zoning
um and and recommendations
I think generally
um and I don't want to mischaracterize
um from the people I've spoken with
um seems as if most people agree that an
overlay is best suited for the purposes
of
um
Zoning for these types of businesses I
know
um
at least one person has said that
they're like this these types of
businesses to be located in
um one or two different types of uh
current zoning districts rather than
doing an overlay
um
the recommendation from the law
department has been you know an overlay
makes sense
um you know to a degree
part of it will be identifying those
Parcels
that we would want to be part of the
overlay
and we can certainly provide a list of
those Parcels that will take some time I
think we were approaching it from
General business districts across the
city and avoiding trying to avoid those
areas that are residential or
um maybe more sensitive to having those
types of businesses in the area for
example on State Street
near I think it's new choices
maybe not having a dispensary or
allowing a dispensary in that area
um again you know it's going to be
obviously subject to whatever the
council wants to do at the end of the
day another recommendation related to
this was requiring special use permits
for these types of businesses to create
yet another layer of approvals for the
purposes of not just the type of
business which you know we wouldn't be
you know saying no to but making sure
that
um the the I think the appearance of the
business and that there's full
consideration of I think all the aspects
of that business moving into that area
um one thing Mr Marnie I think discussed
with some of you had to do with we have
certain businesses that are going to be
pre-existing non-conforming which means
they're going to be allowed to exist
even though they're going to be outside
of this overlay that's an unavoidable
consequence of the zoning
um
but essentially providing them with or
creating a schedule in which they will
have to slowly change
um their appearance to make it conform
with whatever the district may require
that they're currently in
um so that's you know
some work that we have to do on our end
to figure that out
obviously what I think Mr Marney and I
had initially recommended was
determining where
you know if you're going to do an
overlay where are you looking to the
overlay so obviously we still want to
input on that we can certainly provide
you with our two cents on that and then
from that then figuring out what are the
next steps in terms of the requirements
for that District
I know some of you haven't had an
opportunity to come speak with us and we
obviously welcome that and anybody who
has follow-up we obviously would like
that this is not an easy process it will
take time and to be frank you know not
everybody's going to be you know
generally happy they're not you're not
going to get everything on your wish
list here but we're going to do our best
to accommodate
um you know as much of the the wants and
needs of the council to make this work
for you all and obviously work for the
people of the city
so um further network with the next
steps will bring us that information
right so the next steps we will do our
best
um to come out with um you know from the
input that you've already given us
um those uh Parcels
um that we would see as being part of
the overlay
um and then based on that
um other recommendations related to what
that overlay would require as we said um
you know we're looking at a special use
permit I think generally I haven't heard
any opposition to that from talking to
the council people uh just in in
conversation
um but you know as we propose something
I'm sure there'll be questions and other
issues that may come up as we further
discuss this
foreign
next meeting you will so I I can't
guarantee that the next meeting we're
going to have a list of all the parcels
because you know there's going to be a
number of pulsive Parcels we're going to
have to identify okay
um you know and obviously this is in
consultation with you know
um people in the development department
who I think have more insight on
um you know those uses like the Law
Department doesn't know every business
within the city within every Corridor
um so we're going to have to obviously
lean on those folks um in the
development department to provide us
with their Insight we'd like to bring
something back as soon as we can I'm
happy to give you an update
um in two weeks to let you know where we
are so we can kind of keep track of this
and in the meantime I still obviously
and I'm encouraging you all to come come
meet with us and even if it's an email
or a telephone call feel free to reach
out
to have the opportunity itself thank you
all right so we will it's going to be a
process so we're gonna we'll hear back
in two weeks and so for those of you who
um may not be aware at this point in
time in terms of cannabis
um they've allowed now all licenses so
every licenses it's not just a card or the general now everyone has an
opportunity and they're starting to
process all licenses that was I I think
they announced that last week so
um we have a work cut out for us but
just one I mean the licensing is going
to be a process and I believe it starts
October 4th
it's definitely not children I think
you'll be getting October I want to say
around the fourth is when they're going
to actually let that begin to happen so
um so we you know we still have to try
to get our zoning in place in a
reasonable amount of time applications
take a while but still we want to make
sure that we have
are zoning in place because the one we
have now is it's uh grandfathered in and
that's where it could stay there and
that won't change
so just to be um to be clear with the
Cannabis the 1000 feet has to be a
straight line on the same stream we have
to we are preempted by the state
regulations as it applies to cannabis
um the state regulations apply on same
street
um for sensory calculations
um as it applies to smoke shops and vape
shops the council can
put you know distance requirements from
other smoke shops and vape shops there's
no preemption on that
all right any other questions
Mr palomini um relating to
not the zoning but the moratorium which
is really
um smoke shops where we thinking to move
forward on that given the
recommendation or lack thereof from the
county today uh well that came in late
in the day so it didn't make the agenda
so just just
absolutely understood
so we will definitely bring that back
after we have their
recommendation because there's at least
two or three shops that aren't on the
list that
that's without trying to operate oh I'm
sure there's a number oh yeah I'm sure
there's never enough and I am not sure
why they think they can but I'm sure
there's a number of them
um
okay so we'll see that back and then
we'll
also bring that back the recommendation
from the from the
County
Mr bear you weren't here for the last
meeting did uh in terms of I'm good okay
all right so we'll have that okay
all right um items 789 and 10 and 11
actually
um well did not pass the last council
meeting so this is just a reminder that
this will be back on the agenda although
those five items
um for this coming council meeting yeah
the president yes I'm sorry my
recommendation would be to have this
pass out of committee since it didn't
fail on a vote
um
let the council again consider this in
committee because of because the vote
failed as opposed to it having been
tabled my recommendation would be Let It
Be voted out of committee yet again
yes okay correct so do we need to um
also do that in second session again
because that's what we did these uh is
certainly up to the count you know I
can't tell the council what it would be
subject to Executive uh session at the
council so choose you know chose to do
um but that's a consideration of the
counseling so yes it can go into an
executive session as it relates to
property sales and values of properties
okay so we have
um
all the remaining items are also
executive assistant so well
um I would suggest you do those things
that go session so in that case I would
need a motion to recess
it's in development plan so second all's
in favor
[Music]
on the far side there was a reminder for
public hearing on the 2022 Consolidated
annual performance and evaluation report
the public Airline will be held on the
25th of September
this next item we will have to vote on
it I would do that again yes so the next
item is a reminder is a resolution
amending resolution
2022-224 to modify the time period for
the electric city food Cooperative in
Inc so secure require Financial
commitment
already any discussion on this
second
I'm gonna second it all in favor all
right the next item in resolution
amending resolution
2022-224 to modify the time period for
young women's Christian Association
the secure require Financial commitment
any discussion on this
second I'm gonna second it all in favor
I the next item a resolution amending
resolution
2023-029 to modify the time period for
Miracle On Crack 3 to secure require
Financial commitment any discussion
may have a motion second I'm gonna
second it all in favor
aye the next item a resolution amending
resolution
2022-224 to 25 the use of fun for
Schenectady Community Action Program
any discussion
we have a motion so second I'm gonna
second it all in favor all right thank
you any other businesses for finance
all in favor all right thank you
I'd like to recommend a City development
planning and I'm sorry before we go into
executive session there is one item I
did wanted to ask if we could answer the
agenda uh they're doing honor event on
the 30th did get an email and it did not
make the agenda but I would like to
entertain us being able to do
resolutions for the two
gentlemen who are being honored at that
uh
so I would need a motion tools second
all's in favor all right thank you this
time I need some motion to go in the
executive session
[Music]
um