o
for
having
B
just a clarification of this sheet
here let me discuss 551 instead of
541 547 521 we putting back 5,000 in you
put 5,000 in drug testing I had taken
out 10,000 5,000 I was told it should
have
been
I'm open for discussion with regards to
I didn't grab anything from my Note
there wasn't anything
okay I just wanted to update it because
like yesterday we did it late at night
and there was a couple differences
you Mr
chair Marino had some conversation with
members of the council he unfortunately
is at a working fire now on S
Street being told it's under control and
he'll be here as soon as he can but had
a conversation with Mr Williams where
you might be willing to
reconsider the allocation of reduction
in overtime within the fire department
is that something you're looking at no
I'm not aware of
that
wait till the chief gets here and
reiterate his conversation Mr Williams
you want to our thoughts on that
or I would say not at this moment
okay so the question uh on on the reason
why we have this here is that members
want to look at the vacant position over
the period of 2021
2022 and
2023 and for ask a question as to why
these position have been rolling over
from 2021 to 2022 2023 and that being
full and if there what is the reason
that we should carry it into
2024 and the question was
asked since we are facing a deficit of 7
potential deficit of 7.4
million why are we adding several new
position into the 2024
budg so those are the questions I was
asked and we receive the the documents
here so I will open for discussion
regarding but again Mr
chairman the budget I presented to you
does not project any deficit for next
year you're extrapolating things into
I'm using your War you saying that we
are facing in 2025 a 7.4 million
shortfall there's a gap in the revenue
but I've also outline scenarios for if
you'd like to look to adapt two budgets
tonight with both the 24 and the
25 but don't we look ahead when we're
doing budget we do yes so that's that's
why we're here to look at these here and
to see how we these are positions that
I've
recommended to be within the budget and
again we've gone through a period I've
been subject some criticism for not
filling
positions we went through a period with
Co where the Civil Service Commission in
fact shut down didn't offer a
test uh there of recruitment issues not
only for City's conect but businesses in
its entirety we're rebounding back from
that and again look to be able to staff
those departments in an adequate and
fair manner to be able to deliver
Services people want and
need goe please if I can add uh as I was
looking over the current vacancies that
we were received uh definitely thank you
to the um Department of Finance for
providing this information to us um what
I took into consideration when I was
evaluating what positions to consider to
not fund I was uh referencing in
referencing individual positions that
were vacant for an extended number of
years and I think as we look forward to
how do we sta City Hall correctly uh or
effectively it's also understanding do
we have the right amount of jobs but do
we have the right jobs and I think
previously as we were discussing with
the law Department uh as um Mr Cen so
passionately tries to find uh attorneys
uh if you cannot find that position or
that role how can you replace it or what
alternative means do you have available
to you hence us reviewing the uh
incorporation of a pargal uh so as I
went through this uh spreadsheet I
identified some U lines that were vacant
for for two to three years and of those
was the code enforcement officer uh the
assistant to the city engineer the
junior civil engineer the payroll audit
clerk which the mayor um highlighted as
he would be not in in favor of not
funding the assistant Corporation
Council uh I highlighted one Meo for
streets uh two from the water
maintenance workers and one from the
water treatment plant instrumentation
Specialists and again that's taken to
consideration just extended vacancy
positions for uh the majority of those
have been vac for 3
years just I just want to ask on the
payroll AO cler that was always filled
and the person had just had left this
time this year we're just waiting for
the test results to fill it okay well we
definitely need that position well
correction that was on the mayor's
spreadsheet that we had in front of
us
that
I correction it's
not Mr go ahead please well I just want
to point out that um a couple of the
years that we had bacing positions those
were uh coid years and um I think it
probably was difficult to find staffing
uh during coid um but I do think that if
the staff and the mayor if the
department heads and the mayor have
requested these positions um again I
think there's probably a need for the
positions um and I think that we should
continue trying to recruit for them
especially in light of you know there
has been uh conversation around the fact
that perhaps we were under staffed um
within City Hall so but I mean I think
it was probably difficult for many
people to recruit um adequate Staffing
during Co which is the previous two
years that you're looking at on the spr
Mr Willam can you please go through back
those those that you highlighted so you
can have a record of it you are
highlighting that was one code
enforcement officer hold on hold
on
okay the assistant to the city
engineer the junior civil
engineer the assistant Corporation
councel one hold on yes Corporation
Council mhm
yes one m e o m for
streets two for the water maintenance
worker and one Water Treatment Plant
instrumentation specialist you're saying
water maintenance worker
one uh5 corre no no under the water can you repeat that is water
maintenance worker there for uh two
Water Maintenance
workers and the water treatment plan
instrumentation
specialist can can I just mention
something about that uh that is new part
of the or new water system and our
source system uh it's actually a brand
new uh system uh controlled by computers
rather Valves and stuff we I think Paul
I don't think he's not here tonight is
he he is here Paul about instrumen
special have we started even
interviewing people for did and we
actually offered the offered that
position to somebody and the next day
she declined after she gave her notice
to her company because they gave her
better
offer but that's a necessary position
right especially for the future okay
it's one person two jobs it's a highly
Technical and specialized position it's
to skate a system to manage that systems
we upgrade the uh automation of it and
maintain the high quality of water that
we provide for the city
yes if I if I can ask one person two
jobs want to make sure right so I guess
my next question would be who is
performing that role of those duties
right now we contracted up and there's a
ticket if they can get there they get
there they can't when they show up they
show up and it is vital because it is
our water system and it is the skate
assistance to the seage treatment so it
is V so we are at their Mercy when they
want to show up to do the
job so right now we have four vacancies
there where according to the sheet it's
four vacancies for the water maintenance
worker any water maintenance worker
yes yes so there four vacancies I think
one was filled recently maybe last week
so we interview constantly because there
a requirement to have a CDL CDLs are
very hard to
so if you you know we've been always
actively looking for meos in the street
department or water store maintenance
workers because they are required to
have a cdlp license Drive our
equipment thank
you and did you had any um comments on
so the so
fund uh none for sewer but um adding the
cumulative uh cost savings for those
positions in total would equate to half
million
doll go ahead please this one did not
make the list but I really you know
discussed a lot so I just would like to
revisit it um the mechanic
one uh which is a new position um I re I
reviewed what we've been spending and so
on the outside that are not we've spent
$612,000 so um this again was a position
that this person we had loan so I really
recommend we remove that and figure out
how to if we're Contracting how get
people to do that work within the hours
where the vehicles are not being used um
I have a lot of concerns about this
individual working on their own um and
you know with the emergency lift and all
of that and with all of the other
garages that we're using I would
recommend that we look at one of the
garages to be able to do the work
outside of working hour that our people
um our staff needs a
car just speaking on this sheet here yes
but I add it's not on the sheet but it's
making that
recommendation it was uh something that
we we discussed last buet meeting go
ahead please yes and I I thought we were
kind of all in agreeance of of keeping
that gentleman and and coming up with
some type of protocol or safety issues
uh for for whomever is going to take
that position and I'd like to keep
employing uh residents of the city so I
I'd like to at least keep that in there
as as well as I revie the the amount of
money that we're been spending I changed
my position and we don't know that the
person's going to be resident of the
city we hope so well we would hope so
yes go ahead please U may I ask Mr
leonda questions um I thought that we
actually had a person in
that that position is new um and that is
so there we can do the work at the off
hours when Vehicles aren being used to
utilize a garage I don't know most
garages that are open till 10:00 shut
down so our cars would be tied up for
the next day and would be no vehicle for
somebody to use
um and this is this encompasses all of
our vehicles right so it might it might
include a police vehicle the the
maintenance account encompasses
everything whether it's fire vehicles
whether it's police vehicles whether
it's s it's every vehicle within the
city is connected so
um I don't you know we may find it a
little difficult finding a garage that
will perform the basic maintenance for
us after work hours they may I don't
think it'll be at the the rate that they
normally
charge so it's one person so they
they're not even though it's overnight I
know how many vehicles they could do and
what I thought you explain to us was
that it's basically basic maintenance
like oil changes and those kind of
things so uh if we close it for you know
not to have to get to the weeds here but
if we close a for there are garages that
close later and if that's not the case
it certainly um contract with them you
know work through that because we are
spending a lot of money right now on
garages we have a lot of vehicles lot
money and if we want to move those
Vehicles when our shift ends at three
we'll have to
physically move those cars to the
dealerships and they get a ride back
home too so the work day won't be an 8
hour day we have to move those vehicles
that are going to be being performed
maintenance on sometime during the day
and have somebody follow them out and
bring them back so and left there and go
get that vehicle again the next day or
before the workers return in the
morning how many vehicles do you
anticipate one person would be able to
do overnight
alone there for 8 hours they can do oil
changes and they can do the the um the
liquid check the liquid levels and do
tire changes and they can do you know
normal oil change you know you probably
do sever at night right there for eight
hours the hours would be
three 10 two two to 10 sorry our
over I still would like to see if you
could figure out a way for us to do that
with with in house we were spending a
lot of money on garages already and you
add position which um again for me it's
kind of a kind of touchy to have that
one person doing all that so that's
right um go ahead but with respect
wouldn't we be spending more money in
the garages than what we're currently
spending if we had to not have that
position in this person inhouse doing
work as opposed to sending more cars out
to garages I'm not really understanding
um I well first my M my first of all my
major concern is that we have an
individual overnight working with
equipment flammable things Etc on their
own working with a lift we and so I'm
saying that if we if we want to do it
then we should have a rotating shift of
someone else coming in if that's a
possibility or we have another garage
and not have this in the budget but I am
adamant about having that individual
working alone um in a condition I think
is pretty dangerous um
overnight
and depending on seasonal nature we do
staff that facility sometimes 24 hours
sometimes in the evening so that this
particular one is talking about being
assigned uh latitude but there would be
other people within the
facility so the other people in the
facility couldn't do any of this
work it's a union it's it's specific to
the Operating
Engineers to the what operating
engineers so the other people in there
would not be in the same categories that
you
saying the heavy equipment governs heavy
equipment operators local 158
mechanics
1037 so we have um two three other
people in that c four actually in that
category and you're saying and one of
them is the new one so you're saying
that the other three people could not do
any of that work the other three that
are at the bureau service do do that
work they also do more mechanical work
they do BR they do Airlines hydraulic
lines this position is a different title
would be more of the basic oil changes
on a lot of the police cars the uh
medium duty trucks and the heavy duty
trucks um heavy duty trucks can not take
it into a jippy Lube or a valine they
have to go to International or
car
dealership um we start bringing all our
vehicles to JY
Bo I'm not asking you that but I am
asking you if if the other people that
are here could do some of the work and I
think your answer was yes yes they do
some of the work but they're also doing
the more mechanical
work keep the this is more of the basic
maintenance that you do on oil changes
wiper blades tail lights directionals
not any more heavier mechanical work
that's why it's a different rate any
other mechanics thank
[Applause]
you Mr F recently we um we res sended
the $2.5 million to the Aquatic Center
funding correct I would like to throw
that out to the table here that this is
the right time for us to to consider
using that that $2.5 million that is not
considered in this budget and I would
like to open it for discussion in terms
of how we can able to bring that in here
and to help us offset some of
these pleas push around
here open for discussion with my my
members it was up to me I take more
money have art use it for the fundings
you for uh all the all the you know
water wells and stuff that are about to
be working on can we use it for this
budget stuff um I think I think we have
budgeted if you look at the budget 68
million 6.6 6.6 6.6 our M already in the
budget I and then we we're using 7 792
as a as a right that was balance of yeah
that we had left over so we we have that
$2.5 million do we have any more that is
unallocated uh I I know that the only
other amount was unallocated was 750,000
but I know that that's M wants to Beed
thing is
Right St we
already we already allocated that so
that's the only one that I know
of go ahead please I think I'd like to
wait until we see what happens with um
there's projects that have contingencies
on them so we might be getting funds
back from ARA as it is if those
organizations can't um meet the
contingencies so I think I'd rather keep
um you know see what happens when we
look at the arer overall
yeah I think we're going to get back
some funding because some of these
agencies is not going to meet their
requirement extend them to give them a
the last yeah and it's pretty much going
to come back in to help us so then we
can look sort of big picture at so I
think this 2.5 million right for us to
tap into and help us with the
budget I'd rather wait but so so were
you saying you don't want to use it we
already took the two point we had to
resend the 2 million because that
project move forward yeah I mean we
don't know if there's going to be other
needs going forward so I'd rather look
at the whole picture but I don't know
look to see what other people
think I know that um we've gotten
another application uh we to look at for
um Holy Cross Holy Name of Jesus for
their basketball court so there are
people uh because of the exceptions
we're making on these arpa applications
extending things there are people who
put an initial uh AR applications that
are looking to get refunded
again um I'm open to you the 2.5 it was
we had already allocated to a project
and so I'm opening if if it can help
this budget to to move that money into
this go ahead please yet I would have to
Echo that sentiment I think we've all
heard on this table and also throughout
the community uh the frustration with
the concept of considering projects that
were submitted after the fact I know
that there have been talks of a
potential a new facility being developed
but I think since that hasn't been a
point of conversation here at the table
I think before us U Mr unar highlighted
that there was an additional $2.5
million I think as we evaluate what best
to do to position the city uh I think
that I would be very very much
considerate of applying that to this
year's
budget go ahead please um Mr Williams so
you were probably the the biggest
proponent of um a second issue um right
along so are you no longer in favor of
that or um for people to reapply again
for other the funding I would say thank
you for bringing that up I think part of
being a council member is understanding
that at this table conversations change
and your positions evolve I think
recognizing that we all have a very uh our very strong positions and I think
if I'm trying to sit here to work
collaboratively that is something that
I'm willing to push forward as an option
to put forth a budget that I could
support the
city yeah I'm in favor fav of using this
$2.5 million to help us because he's the
burden on us in terms of looking where
we can find additional funding and this
money is available for us to use so
let's use it I think it's the reason why
it's
there and we should be fortunate that we
were able to resend it and have it ready
for us to use at the right
time unless Mr Ferrari has any
AR
funding only thing I know we have to
wait down of the year to see if there's
any left that we have budgeted for this
year um and it's really up to you guys
about we sending the pl going forward
for going forward uh and that 2.5
million it's you know I just want to say
uh if you looked at our water and sore
our our sore fund is 2.5 million off I
have no problem using AR money for water
and sore infrastructure which which is
exactly what intended to be used for and
that's exactly why I pull that because
looking at the report that you provided
you and D provided right away at that
funding $2.5 million fitting right there
and then had a conversation with you
today I was fortunate to have that in
terms of where is this $2.5 million and
can be
used where is it no no that's why I
asked
sorry no I was just making a statement
sorry no we know where it is
yeah so can I have a consensus on the
finance committee so let moving
forward no no okay I'm in favor of
utilizing the $2.5 million to help us
push
this will we use that strictly for what
well well we have we have three I think
the water fund the general
fund go ahead I I think that you're
trying to circumvent the discussion
about whether we're going to have the
fee increases that are part of the
budget I don't know I'm just saying I
mean should we have that discussion
before you make any decision about us I
think we left the meeting I think we
left the meeting last meeting with um
not in favor of winning
please well the finance committee yes um
I think that you yeah no I don't think
you had a chance to voice any opinion on
that the other night but this is just
pushing it down the road it's not doing
anything it's the same nonsense that was
last year with the arpa money we saw the deficit last year nothing was
done all these positions were we have to
have them we have to have them we have
to have them them now all of a sudden we
don't need
them so this does nothing except extend
the problem down the road and makes it
even
bigger M far to answer to your question
with regards where do we use it I mean
that is up to you where you drop into
and use it because we're looking at a
2.5 8883 well let's chairman with all
due respect I submitted a
budget developed by the department heads
put in position it's now city council if
you're
again used a convoluted process of the
allocation of the arpa money to begin
with you didn't rely on professional
staff for input and Analysis it's why we
have projects out there that are
underfunded and are going to be in
ability to complete on time or within
budget and this just becomes a charade
that's really an embarrassment in the
overall fiscal position in the
city go ahead please well I'd say to Mr
Pal's comments I would have appreciated
hearing those the day that we had the
discussion but I did not forever reason
you were not present uh I would say to
the mayor's Point uh collaborative
government is what I learned in school
and what I was looking forward to being
a part of uh it seems as if this year it
has been very one-sided so say based on
the motion that I put forward someone
has to respond correct Mr M yes so
response hey I made a motion and I
didn't know if anyone responded
to yes I
second do you want to go back through
question do you want to go back to
the
well everybody can read so I think we're
pretty well set as to what's on the
chart I said everybody can read the
vacancy we don't need a report as to no no no no no I asked I asked Mr
William he made
some he made some suggestion here we
don't have so I ask him to go through
that he already did yes so we can
highlight it and see where we stands of
do we keep this position and do we uh
that is my
question so basically what you're asking
is whether we want to eliminate um a
code enforcement officer an assistant to
the city engineer a junior civil
engineer assistant Corporation
Council some meos which we yeah okay one
Meo which we really know we need um two
Water Maintenance workers um and the
water treatment plant instrumentation
specialist those
that's what you're trying to eliminate
right now I would
say please I would say based on the
information that we received I went
through this spreadsheet and identified
positions that I thought would be open
for consideration up to this point we
have only heard from a portion of our
council members since I've have
specified individual positions we have
heard from a number of our department uh
staff which I appreciate your feedback
to make sure that our actions are well
reflecting of the needs of your
departments um however we can at the
direction of Mr mavian we can go through
line by line and see if individuals feel
comfortable moving forward with that uh
but I presented
options I me I already said what I
thought I did
I I think you did too
yeah okay so Mr you want to
each I just goad
please so the code enforcement officer
I'm not in favor of that I have to say
and based on
um the description by Mr
um Mr lefon I would be in favor of one
of those
positions um and I just want to be clear
M these are we received positions that
you had originally taken out of the
budget as
well in the final budget they were not
included I didn't personally take some
of those out department heads reviewing
their actual staffing needs and again
coming up with a number that uh help the
tax levy at as lowest
possible go ahead please well we have
several engineering positions that
aren't filled for many years I would be
okay with cutting those and putting that
money back into both the uh fire and
police overtime but in some of those
positions we have used that money to
hire outside firms to do the work that
would have been done by engineering
staff then we keep that amount then cut
the rest and put it towards the overtime
budgets uh our chief engineer he already
removed a couple of um positions from
his budget when it was submitted so what
we're seeing here is what was pass his
submission so there are already I
believe one and a half positions that
were
move
will yes just looking for a point of
clarity um Mr Mayor to your point uh
positions that are unfilled those
departments are able to utilize those
vacant funds for the best needs of that
department is that
correct yes thank you
the F saying to REM all the funds fromer
just oh whatever it is that they
Outsource to get the job done keep that
allocation and then move the rest of the
positions away and be in mind also they
have a line for fees of service that
they also tap into well if he hasn't
filled them in three years and it's not
that
difficult you just go to RPI you can
contact Clarks and you want to fill the
positions you probably
could again he he removed one and a half
out of his budget for this year was from
4.5 to three so part of that has already
been done and if we're going to be
consistent with that then we have to be
consistent as we look at all the line
items to say they also haven't been
filled in three years that's going to be
the Matrix is we're going to use pleas
again that speaks to my point of this is
what the department heads what we have
in this document is what the department
heads have suggested for their Staffing
so that's right what Miss Porterfield is
saying is we do have already the
knowledge of what the head engineer has
suggested so why fool around anymore
with any of the other Staffing and that
would be consistent across the budget
that this is what the department heads
have said um and again to your point I'm
waiting for that conversation about the
overtime but I don't want to cut
anything from you know I hear what
you're saying you're trying to
hopefully go ahead of that discussion
but I mean hopefully when we get to that
discussion we can resolve that issue as
well yeah but to add to Mr P any point
this this has been over for several
years vacant and as long as we've been
in the council here we have seen that
this trend moving from year to year
being vacant yes we utilize all the
money to offet consultant and others but
are we utilizing all this money and
we're using it then parli recommend see
what we need move it into the P service
line and
then you know add address some of the uh
the
funding I think I think that's what the
discussion is about on this sheet here
is about the funding position is vacant
over this last couple
years why
continue if we have to move them in the
Fe of service line let's move some there
and
then zero all the rest into the
general and then if I may these are
difficult conversations to have but
truly this is what our entire country is
dealing with there's no industry that is
exempt from making these same type of
decisions and this is our responsibility
to evaluate this based on the input
we're receiving to make sure we're
adjusting and making sure we're the best
position as a
city your position is not to consider
any then I respect that um but I'm just
trying to look at the trends and see if
there are any cost
savings you want to keep going on on the
audience want to
suggest
did you have
something so we going one by one yeah
that's why keep going to the one that
you suggested and let's um move on that
see yep the assistant the city engineer
the junior civil
engineer uh the assistant Corporation
councel one Meo for
streets uh the two Water Maintenance
workers and I think if hearing the com
from Mr Le i' to removing the L
treatment plan instrumentation
specialist pardon me removing it from
your list remove from your
list how would be opposed to the uh
sewer maintenance workers and the
Wastewater uh worker their short staff
down there could create a dangerous
situation and uh you want to talk about
having individuals work by themselves
that I would be opposed to
that appreciate your comment I
appreciate your comment me I think
looking there are currently four
vacancies so the two would still leave
two open positions my thought process
was fill those two and if uh the need
presents
itself coming back before the
council any other discussion on any
other position
and this is dealing with the 2021 22 and
23
yes I just want to clarify and perhaps
Mr Mar can can help but it looks like in
the Law Department
budget in terms of the assistant
Corporation
Council one of those was your previous I
think was your previous role perhaps um
it may have been yes y um I believe we
still have uh two other full-time
assistant Corporation Council positions
open uh my understanding is Mr C had
indicated that to the extent that that's
cut if we didn't find another attorney
we would probably be returning to
council um recruitment for attorneys is
very difficult um we do try the best we
can we' actively try and local law
schools to more people from other
positions and other WS but it is
competitive it is competitive
Yeah so basically if we removed those
two
positions you might come back and we
might come back and have to add an
amendment to trying
to it yeah it would be very likely as it
is we have Andrew and I are the only
full-time attorneys for the city right
um we have two part-time assistant
Corporation Council
so say Mr Marne highlighted is the
difficulties with hiring just a single
highly specialized position is that
correct I'm sorry could you repeat the
question it's difficult to hire even one
extremely specialized physan it is very
difficult so I would say if we focused
on a singular vacancy and then if that
individual presents itself in addition
to uh incorporating a legal evaluating
the need which I imagine is to have more
um of those individuals in your office
but if they don't present themselves I
think it
is besides the point out two
[Music]
vacancies that being said I will also
add that the um uh the fewer attorneys
we have in the Law Department the higher
our outside Council costs are um and you
know outside counsil rates vary any from
300 to $600 an
hour as far as I'm concerned it's the
engineering
positions the
uh do we have any specific one that we
can just highlight so that well there's
four four four four
Bacons one two three four five again the
water and sewage those are things that
we really need don't want to screw
around with that in my opinion abely I
agree and the MEO falls under the
specialization with the
CDL and other than that the carpenter I
guess I'm fine
with but otherwise I think you feel
them we have five an engine you
mention one you
well one says it's
filled oh then it's been vacant again
I'm assuming if yeah I'm assuming they
filled it once they can fill it
again and I would want to that is the
IPS go ahead Mr I was going to say I
wouldn't completely strip that
department
either
I'd have to Echo that especially since
Mr Wallen has made it a point of already
looking at his budget and seeing
positions that weren't filled and
therefore not put bringing them forward
to this year's budget so I believe he
took into consideration that these
budgets these um positions have not been
filled in past years he's been able to
run his apartment and has taken them out
so I don't want that we should continue
to go even further into that so um Mr
Williams has suggested too
and Mr pal is suggesting any more and I
don't think we should go more than two
um and I really I think that Mr wall has
already considered what he needs in his
Department in terms of downsizing re
realizing what our our fisal situation
is Mr William you mentioned for all the engineering department do you have
the two in in mind
yes he did he
did can you identify please assistant
City enger and Junior civil
engineer so so Mr Wallen elimin the
junior cver engineer already from the
budget that's already out of the
budget right am I I'm looking on page
yes of 10 and there's zero on that line
he already eliminated that particular it
shouldn't be on the other sheet he left
in uh two assistant to the engineer and
one civil engineer so the there's an
error then right because the assistant
well yeah okay so the assistant to the
civil engineer he did leave so you want
to get rid of one of those it's he
didn't have in the budget he did have
the he had he had two assistants to the
civil engineer in his budget but now
we're taking out one of
them the other one is called assistant
civil engineer that's not on he that's
what he eliminated and that is not on
the green on this sheet at
all
um and then the IPS
he wants an IPS so that wasn't in his
budget um but that is what he asked for
when he met with us I guess because it's
not in his budget yeah it's not it
wouldn't be under administrative
salaries oh okay let me see maybe me go
down
furthers yep thank you oh
there what page is that John that is
Page n page
n
that's
right I don't see it oh there we go yes
right so we did put that
in and that when you want to leave in
right the
ips3
yeah
take and the ips4 that's in that
department is currently
unfilled the
IPS
I see so the civil engineer on page
10 yeah so he took out Chris already
took out the civil engineer that's on
this scen
sheet he removed the assistant civil
engineer and the civil and the J oh yeah
you're right y
okay so those are the
and the assistant civil engineer is only
half time um
previous can we just have a new list of
what is being proposed yeah that's TR oh
okay because I think we added something
back in the uh
that's so we can
highlight
there
we will need to I mean it doesn't matter
because we can't vote but
right because if there's one in here
that that's supposed to be in
here if it was already
removed
this want you finish with with
your
yes let's move on to the 2024 new
position been proposed
just
ferari the one highlighted and other one
have removed there can you walk us
through that those yes so the yellow
highlighted
positions uh that was originally put in
by Department request uh they were
removed by us um the one item for flea
manager by the city
council um if you look at the Highlight
item in pink there street department
manager uh that's just a title change
and the rest are positions that were
added to the
budget the only only other thing at the
bottom you get the lead inspector
coordinator and the lead inspector risk
coordinator accessor uh we're switching
that from a management position to a CCA
it used to be a CCA to begin with uh the
department had at the time requested um
insisted rather that they would uh go
into that position and train um and do
enforcement department but um I think
that is not the case anymore so both of
those would be csca
no one budget at 5,000 and the other be
CAU 65,000
mat okay so that should be in yellow in
other words right okay gotcha
miss bfield you talk about the um the
Moto equipment operator
mechanic yes I we discussed that um
Mr has given us his impression of that
um and I would really like to see how we
could figure out how to do that work um
without having someone on the own over
at night I know what you said about
other people there and so again I
wondering how we is it that we can have
other people there that are already
there do some of this work if if it
extends past the normal business hours
you said that we have sometimes people
go 24 hours shs there winter time
mechanics are obviously during
snowstorms sometimes only one mechanic
there during the snowstorm over time
it's
voluntary to come in so there are times
when there's one person there in the sow
only one mechanic in the
workan in light of what was spending
other garages I still think we should
consider removing that
position if you're trying to save
money
Mr can we ask Mr leant to just refresh
our memory about the fleet manager
position would you like to speak to
about the need for the fleet manager as
opposed to you were talking about the
mechanic
yeah originally it was a man position on
the now went out the assistant we manage
um we do work on a lot of vehicles
there's a lot of paperwork we'd like to
be able to monitor to through a
computerized meance management system
the work and how it's being performed
but without the staff and management to
do this work it's very difficult right
now we have an assistant fleet manager
who is working as fleet manager but also
Turing wrenches also getting Arts comes
down to we have a lot of work we don't
have a lot of
staff
okay we have a number of vehicles a lot
of vehicles go out for repairs a house
some go to the county um we do what we
can inh housee um you if we were able to
do more try to reduce our outside
expenses I need the staff that can do
that um it's not always the most cost
effective way contract work
out and Mr thean we need to be um
concerned with safety of these vehicles
going out continuously on the road so
they need all of our mechanics are
certified to do both um mediumsized
vehicles and heavy equipment for um
inspections so every mechanic we have
those inspections on all our vehicles
thank
you
pleas
soe comments been made were looking to
save money which I don't have any issue
with what are we going to do with the
saved money we can't roll it over to the
deficit in
2025 so what's the end goal with what's
being done end see what we can say and
then
we you had you said you had a
conversation with um the chief Marino
the mayor was highlighting something
like that just know that is here and
that more than likely will give the
lights
to go into back back that whatever
that so it's now
pushing using it to reduce some of the
cuts we last week sorry last two um
session they want to eliminate the
overtime from the police and the fire so
that's the cut that they're talking
about I think you had to unfortunately
leave a little bit so yeah I have work
so yeah he will be us
some potential savings that we're trying
to CL back here just want to clarify not
eliminate there was a reduction but not
eliminate well cut cut from what the
police chief and fire chief have asked
us for but not eliminating
sorry but I I want to complete this one
task first before getting ahead okay not
getting ahead we need to know what the
end result what the end outcome that's
looking to be achieved that's what the
end result is whatever savings and to
look at what the major C that happened
in the last couple of session to clap
back on there if we can
yes and there one of the reason why I
brought the $2.5 billion of the AR money
that we recently to help us with that
but with the cuts you still didn't have
a balanced that's that's why we are
looking at the position here and see
where we are then we can make a decision
go ahead yeah there still work progress
here so go ahead
Miss with regards to
2024 yeah we started
that I didn't I didn't have any comments
towards towards
these my my my comments on the U 2024
position is to look at the
ips3 and the IT specialist keep the um
the G antiviolence
coordinator and to look at the
me and the um CD
assistant please John just want to speak
about uh the IP S3 for utilities and the
ips3 for it I just want to bring up the
fact and plus the Web Master bring up
the fact that that whole department
there's going to be two major
retirements this was the plan to uh uh
help uh keep that department together uh
you know using three three to take the
place of the two that are
there Mr are we going to have some
funding on those on retirement plan when
the person
retired
yes it's going to be increased no not
going to be no savings when they retire the month that's left
behind excuse me the lines that we
funding for that position they will be
funding remain on that line when the
person retire yeah but they're retiring
in 2024 they're not retiring now do I'm
saying this is 2024 yeah so so these
positions what they're trying to do is
hire than so before they retire they
have some training uh so when the people
retire the uh these positions will be up
and running without we're trying to do
it in a way so that the par has
any I also want to say I think I mean
that give antiviolence coordinator
there's no question oh okay because I
mean that's Grand funded it has nothing
okay
I I said keep that oh well I know what
I'm just saying we don't need to even
question we don't even need to disc keep
it or not keeping
it we discussed the Moto equipment
operator mechanic the
mum there are two position being
proposed
here
always any question
this um are the's um CA
position 1037 10:37 I'm sorry 10 they
are 1037
in the street are
1037 water meance workers are
also are 1037 okay thank
you
eliminating we have a certain number in
contract
so Mr Ferrari so you think that we
really need the ips3 for it and the IT
specialist and the Web Master the Web
Master yeah just so you can have a
seamless seamless array when these guys
leave if if you look at if you look into
the budget we did um we did put one one
or two of the positions
at 4
25% you know because we know we should
not be full year
so we just that one but for the other
position that bigger position we you
need that money because that person's
got to be replaced and then for the it
now you're going to need new it guide
because now we're actually instead of
just having two we're going to have two
different departments now have good
utilities you have traffic and then
you're going have
it so the yellow highlight was removed
was asked by the department head but but
not put in the budget by finance that
was not recommendation that was
that except for the fleet
manager yeah
that's REM so why are we considering positions
that weren't in the
budget I this is a report I asked
think I'm not sure why
here are not highlighted are in the
budget still when we were doing the
budget we listed all the new jobs so we
had to we had this ready to go so then
when he asked for when he asked for we
went reviewed it he said okay we know
this is out this is out this is
out we want to also show that you know
we've we're also working to keep things
down at the same time
I mean the first I'm okay to keep the um
the ips3 for utility admin and I'm okay
with keeping the IT specialist Web
Master and we can reconsider the ips3
for
it pleas I'm sorry but again I mean I
think that when we heard from it but
also I think some of these positions
those those positions I think also in
terms of the increase in the Cyber the
risk of cyber attacks I think that was a
reason that um we were thinking about
making sure that we had appropriate
Staffing levels um in it everybody else
jump in from when we had aan speaking to
us but
um or actually it was Mr Kio that
presented for that so I could look back
to my notes but um I think we have to
really be with the increase in cyber
attacks across our nation or
across the internationally I mean I
think we have to really be careful about
what we're doing and making sure that
we're not putting any of our data um at
risk so I would still support those it
positions no it was one of the IDE
that's why we may have suggest us to
make a budget
appropriation
so the
I can't exact title so mention the name
Mr sorry and then we I The Specialist
Web Master I think they explain that to
us so help that
also find my page
here yeah please and I think I would
support that if we already had
candidates aligned but I think the
question that we're presented with right
now is whether we're comfortable with
having pools of money sitting in those
lines and then the cost analysis is what
is the likelihood of those being
filled I mean I don't know I would guess
that it positions would' be able to fill
but do you have trouble filling it
positions we are actively recruiting our
anticipate being able to fully staff
those
we need an index in this next
year Still Still for
it no where that leaves us right now oh
we just making not any any question on
the go ahead please so with the IT
specialist is this because we're
anticipating um the retirement of the uh
IT specialist is is
uh is we're actually need more people to
come in especially for our website we
want a better Web Master for our
website may happen next year we're
trying to set up a a jva you know trying
to open up jobs for them these actually
the IPS three two people place one
personing and Web Master
and we're leaving the other person's
position open to get a new person to
take
have what are we
actively looking right
[Music]
Chief okay and any question on the
me there two position be proposed into
the
2024 no those those were removed by the
mayor highlighted the
right above that that one two okay
for I I had thought that Mr D came in
explain the situation with the parks y y
yep
any question on the CDs
system6
if you could just give me a little
background again on what this person's
position is it's actually a new position
U before
uh can't her name that's okay she just
left Kristen yes uh before the uh
Department development person left she
want his position because we there was
such a a loss of Staff in that uh
Community Development uh Community
Development Department that uh wanted to
bring in a new Community Development um
supervisor and also assistant uh to help
the supervisor so they both can learn
together so that you know try to get the
in the future the department in a
stronger
position just just just to remind you
that CD assistant is 100% funded
by
but we we also have a CD supervisor and
a CD program monitor
correct and this new position is just a
CD assistant right like explain because
right now the supervisor we don't have a
supervisor right now and uh we need this
what she
Department we don't have a c Community
Development supervisor but that's a
vacant position where she's actually
she's looking for recruits right now I
think she said she have 13 uh 13
candidates and what we're looking to do
like you said because we bringing in a
new one they wanted to bring an
assistant to help help this person and
then together they would learn to make the staff stronger in the future I
mean it's not going to happen
overnight
and the the monitor is already is is
currently filled that's
so
oh yes yes
it but again that's a position that we
were told they going to reti re also so
I think that's the whole idea with the
assistant they trying to get everybody
rolling to uh take know each other's
position so when there is a a loss like
that uh they can take over until the
next person
deci I was wondering I mean actually it
says it was filled in 2021 and 2022 but
that Community Development supervisor I
feel like it was a new position before
that it was something that was that a
new position and it was no I think they
moved the person that was there that
left the city yeah I believe they mo
came into that position
okay there was some position that
because of the impending the pen the
fact that we were getting the arpa
funding before we got the arpa
funding they created a new position
because they thought they would need the
extra set of hands to deal with all the
arpa
process I just don't know which one of
that is that was a supervisor I think at
the time that's what I thought too
but
any other discussion on
this so do we need the supervisor I so
okay so we have a CD supervisor CD
program Monitor and CD
assistant 100% uh
funded
and just as a recap the the street
department manager highlighted
in um was the
reason that is the one gentleman uh who
yeah okay so you know what do we figure
out a savings of like 60 or
$70,000 he does both
positions otherwise he can just go back
to his old position makeing 98 and then
he would have to hire another person at
90 you
know then you got to pay uh benefits for
your other person
also what you have question on this um
position I'm not putting in the spot but
well well a discussion that we had
before was that this position it's one
person supposed to be do two jobs and um
initially when we had when it was put in
the budget it was a 4% increase when
they changed the street um the
title and then when they brought it back
to the original title the increase then
became
14% even though initially our
understanding was that they that was the
person still was going to be doing two
jobs because they were split between two
departments but the first time we saw it
was 4% and then when when when it came
back with the new name became 14 excuse
me when it came back to the old name
became
14%
so um that's my was my question around
that and just the level of that
particular
increase is is that the where we're
doing 2 and 52 and so we were
eliminating two positions that were 80
something and 80
something what is it we're eliminating
the 88 400 if you need more information find
probably help you
out well initially when when Mr Leon
came to us he explained it but um when
we saw it we didn't see the 14% increase
but when it came back again then we saw
the 14% increase but we haven't seen you
since then
yeah sure sure there was a title the
were looking position position State and
then we do have a gentleman who is Will
to take on more work and would not fill
the other position so ultimately we're I
do two jobs I'm the director of Water
waste water and I'm they been doing it
for seven years we have an employee who
is willing to take a little more
responsibility a little more
compensation and in return what we're
saving is a position $8,000 plus the
benefit package which is ultimately what
we try to do is to try and be efficient
but also other saving this is an
opportunity to do
that so um it is 14% when the score so
is there is another amount is there a
lesser amount that you think would be
still reasonable since this person
taking a little bit more work hope
doesn't take the work put the position
back in for
,000
I mean you're willing to take if you're
asking to go negotiate with him you know
this is what we offer he's will to do
the work at
this we're interested we do it if not
he'll do his exist existing job and I
would ask you to look at the budget and
put the other position in for 88,000 so
somebody can do that
job the difference is only what $6,000
because the person was making 98 6,000
yeah 98
so4 would 91 from 88 so that would that
would have been the
bum 98 45 Something
each management position it's not over
time comes in for
alls sens is there
sens it was removed Tak the other if the
salary increases there there's no s so
you take the stien out yes I
did they were the two positions at
45968 each we raised them to 52,000 each
for total of 104 for the one position
which would eliminate 52 each department
which would eliminate the
$88,000 right was the overall Savings of
right not that's not the total
statements it was one person and it's
not two positions so just to be clear
about that it's one individual that
we're talking about in terms of the
right for
104 but it's split into two
right any other discussion on
this so would it be the director of
solid waste Mr lefant is it the director
of director of solid waste you took out
of the budget correct and that's that
would be the position that the manager
will assume some of the RO
there okay and then the other one but
okay doesn't exist the director of yeah
that's f it doesn't exist okay so his
was he the he is the street department
man
Curr
[Music]
gotcha
got because his budget was overall
down he's going to get some chairs for
these
guys
any other discussion here so based on
the the discussion we have
here and the notes that I have my say
I'm okay keeping the ips3 for utilities
ad me I'm okay keeping the IT specialist
Web
Master keeping the GIF anti-un violent
antiv violent
coordinator and keep the m e o
m and keep the lead Vector coordinator
that's a movement from swich from CSC
manag I won't give that it's actually L
Spector risk assess yeah I'm okay with
the
m so you said I just want to you said
keep the utilities admin ips3 yes but
not the ips3 for
it yeah I would be against that and then
you want to keep the MEO both of them no
the IP specialist master keep that yeah
okay great I skipped over that one okay
GI anti violent coordinator again no
discussion I'm skipping the U the street
department manager andle manager we took
that out previous
discussion Miss bfield um talk about the
auto vehicle operator mechanic
I am okay with keeping the M there's two
of them yes I'm two and I'm okay keeping
the lead inspector risk
assessment and so
you
right you get rid of the CD assistant
yes that was
CDG so you didn't want that oh so that
one's Grant funded also CD
assistant
that that is
my no I'm
good again I would just like to state
that I would recommend not taking away
the it
position
INF Tech specialist ips3 for
it I mean it's not like this is a new
position on top of they already have
staff in but I think the need has
increased in terms of the complexity of
our it for the city and the risk
of cyber problems
for discussion on these
items so but we remove the management
position there already so you okay with
leaving that out the infotech specialist
that was asked for by the department
but right
here no I'm okay okay with the I'm okay
with the positions that Finance has
removed from the budget yes the ones in
yellow unfortunately on the report but
those were not funded in the24 budget
okay go ahead please can just one more
time what do you recommending we remove
no I'm
suggesting we keep the IPS free
utilities admin keep the IT specialist
Web Master right
keep the GI anti coordinator great
the um we already removed the I'm going
skip the street manager we already
removed the fleet
manager hearing
mhm I'm going to skip the Moto
equipment I'm okay with keeping the two of
them the one the CD assistant I
was and the L inspector
resor so the only thing you're not
suggesting at this time is the IQ
specialist Web
Master no the IPS
for oh the second
one and then um other know Miss P field
position on the um street department
manager and
the and equipment operator
mechanic you had RAC concern that so
that department manag that change that
change my concern that I explain the one
where they are now salary by 14% but
Mr Mr says because of his additional
duties he would have then split it back
into two so those are my concerns a 14%
increase after we saw it the second time
not when we saw the first
time we also said there's not going to
be a Sten in that
position what is your
recommendation well I I would say that
we could could lower that to 10% I more
comfortable lower which one I'm sorry
dep yeah please I think if you lower I
don't know if that the person would take
that position and then you would then we
would
have then we would have a problem
because then we won't have a direct
solid way if they want to lower that
street department manager's position you
won't take the position why would you
lower he's already in that position why
would you lower it he's already in the
position I mean you should get a raise
right a 14% raise is
what no you're saying get rid of the
splitting it into two right aren't you
saying no I'm saying if even if it is
two I'm saying the increase 10% is what
I'm saying the two but we can't I mean
that would have to be negotiated with
the
gentleman
um outside of this
meeting I'm I'm pretty sure that he
would not accept the
which would mean we have to go back to I
believe it's called street department
manager and that's the job that he's
currently in so that job is the 88,000
whatever plus we'd have to put in for a
raise because that's not in this budget
um because he should get a raise right
get get a 4%
ra yeah they
have
so it's just a savings of you know the
20 something well it won't even be 20
something because what did you say the
race would be be his salary would be
about
92,000 so be saving like $112,000 or
something that's my
that's pardon me I said that was my
recommendation initially like I said
when it came to us they had a title it
was given us 4% came back with another
title um same
situation but now I came back with it
back to its original title but the
amount that of the increase is not no
longer four it was
14
so so let me Rec this so you were just
recommending a 10% increase not the 14%
but more than likely the person might
not be taking that position based on the reduction you
think I can't speak for I'm just putting
in my
mind back to the the position of
88400 and with
the the regular increase is that what
you're suggesting as Port I'm just
trying to recap this so we move forward
no if if this gentleman wants to take
this person wants to take both jobs I'm
just saying I think the 14% increas is
significant it's not what we were
initially presented with so um it was
initially presented even though there
was a title change as 4% increase so now
we're seeing additional 10 when it came
back and it changed back to its original
title I'm simply suggesting that we
leave it as is but have a 10% increase
versus a
14 well what I would suggest is you can
leave his position there the 4% raise
then give me the position back that we
had deleted for what was 880,000
88,000 so you'd have two 88,000 position
correct yeah that's
what so that's a cost
savings no
sarcastic okay thanks I was thank you
for what you said Miss pter field I was
just under the impression last night
that that yourself and Mr Williams on
the finance committee were okay with
this last evening voted up
right I think we've kind of work through
that
agreement on last
night item of the first
page yep there it is to that's okay
thank you
we're in the theater of
the we should sell tickets we can help
with the
deficit you know what we're here to
discuss this and I I think the sarcasm
is not necessary
well as far as the IPS position goes I
would object to that because we're
getting meams more data all the time we
have have trying to put that out on the
website we've created that thing with
the police department to put the data
out there we're essentially probably
going to put even more data out there
removing that position I think would
beish yeah but the department is already
they have some staffing the amount of
data that's coming in it's not like
something new or they don't have
Staffing that we're trying to but we're
getting more and more data you need
somebody to analyze the data otherwise
the data is meaningless and protect the
data is also the other
concern go ahead please so the positions
you highlighted and also I would
entertain uh Council Mo quarter Field's
uh reduction for that street department
manager
10% what is the position on the the
motor equipment operator mechanic
one you had made some comments on that
yes and um it's again that position that
is there alone um using an automatic
lift around a car cars multiple and I
was I was asking Mr Fon if there's a way
for us to be able to do that work
considering the fact that we're we've
expended $612,000 in garages anyway to
somehow be able to either cut that back
or to be able to not have this position
um again because I considered a safety
risk and I'll say that again and again
so that was my concern around
that go ahead please I I appreciate that
you're concerned about the safety but I
do think again it's 2:00 p.m. to 10:
p.m. so let's say like from 2: p.m. to 7
p.m. you know it's probably not unsafe
but I mean I'm just saying I mean it's
not night time um and then so it is 3
hours it's 2: to 10 it's 2: p.m. to 10m
that's the 8 hour shift so um I just
feel like maybe there's other options
that the department head could figure
out because I think you expressed
concern as well about the safety but
there you know let's give them a chance
to figure out um how to keep it safe I
mean any employee that we have
we worry about their safety I mean
whether it's I mean these are concerns
that I think that facility expected to
operate a fully OA compliant environment
to maintain the highest standards there
so let's just see where it goes you and
Mr
Williams we still discussing still
discussing you want it I said what I
give to
express I guess we'd have to see what
the savings are going to be too right I
mean before we move on with our
discussion would we have to rerun these
lists for example that is correct yes so just the
two and I was going to say here um
outside of uh safety concerns um is
there a opportunity for some cost
savings if we're using um the our
existing Partners to do some of this
work ask that question
already but there there's no cost
savings there that kind of more
expensive to go to contractors okay more
expensive I think that's if we had to
use all the different
garages the whole reason for putting
this forward is to generate cost savings
and improve theer operational efficiency
of the ability to turn Vehicles over and
keep them op so the city Workforce can
do the jobs they're supposed
to so how but how can we see the savings
that the outside garage is then if we're
funding this position how how are we
managing that that number in theory will
drop so is there a plan to um then bring
some of the work in that's currently
being out yes
um because that wasn't part of the
discussion when it
was I'm just stating if you want
to our mechanical budget is based on a
number of we have smaller Vehicles we
have very large Vehicles we have
frontend loaders there are certain tasks
that our employees are capable of doing
in house there are tasks that we are not
capable of doing in house those repairs
go up to heavy equipment places I can't
tell you Year from year what piece of
equipment will fail that we can fix or
cannot fix what I can tell you is that
the other night when we sat in the
meeting I heard how we don't have a lot
of cars because they get tied up during
the day during the normal work day so
the codes Department short Vehicles the
way to rectify that is for me to do some
of the basic maintenance on the off ship
so those vehicles are ready in the
morning for people to get in and utilize
them and not be stuck looking for a
vehicle that's not available so that I
cannot tell you that every we do is
going to save someone it will save
somebody but it will make it efficient
that the vehicles are ready available
for other staff members to get in in the
morning okay not sitting in the office
because that vehicle is in there having
ties changed being inspected or having
oil
changes we work the same hours of mural
service that City Hall does pretty much
so unless I want to change the shifts at
Bureau service everybody worked the 3 to
11 shift and cars will be available but
it's not going to happen so we do our
best to save the money but there are
tasks that we cannot do in house it's
beyond the means of our
mechanics we always try to save but that
600,000 you referred to is every vehicle
in the city fleet that's fire trucks
that's police cars That's Heavy
Equipment not just the vehicles we want
to change oil it's our boom trucks it's
everything it's our garbage trucks with
the hydraulic LS and the pneumatic Rams
so all that money is in one
pool But it includes the vehicles that
now be doing the work on right it
includes the vehicles that we would do
what we would call more minor
maintenance on oil changes Tire changes
you know light bulbs directionals things
like that yes but the efficiency is that
the vehicle is done in the evening when
nobody's utilizing it or needs it and
it's readily available for SNAP for
codes everybody else to go out and do in
the morning when they
arrive and if
that's I could have used that a few
minutes
ago our staff moving at all times having
the
Avil how do we Mo forward from
this I still have concerns about the
position but you know it's up to the
finance committee that they want to do
but finance committee leave the position
ultimately we'll save money and become
more
efficient
I'm comfortable trying it comfortable
what I'm sorry trying it trying it keep
it trying keeping it
in
any other discussion on
this m you making notes or we have to go
back you guys got totally confused go
back and forth up and down in
and just let me know
you guys got to hurry up too my meds are
starting to wear
off how much longer I can sit here Mr
Williams you have any more discussion on
this with regard to I I did outline what
I am suggesting that we keep and then
you added this one here Moto equipment
operator mechanic to keep that we did
remove the um fleet manager prior
discussion and M pfield you are
suggesting that we adjust the street
department manager to 10%
yes but that
10% just fast calculation would be
10,351 so it saves under
$4,000 excuse me it save under 4,000
3,664
3,649 but we have to keep the other
position in because probably the guy's
going to say the guy's going to say no
probably I know we can't speak for
them so so you got to put the other 88
back in plus the benefits for the 88
plus the
race so I'd put both in the hund and
whatever Plus the 88 so there's no
savings it's extra
money because you'd have to put both in
then you'd be able to take it out
afterwards when he if he says
no Mr yeah please so if we're going to
continue to keep calculating and I'll
continue to keep saying that concessions
need to be made in negotiation is the
exchange of ideas and compromises after
hearing all the information from Mr Lon
understanding uh that there is a
potential need potential cost savings
based on the work after hearing Miss
Porterfield identify her safety concerns
I elected to make a concession yet again
uh after hearing that this individual
although there will be significant cost
savings a raise is a raise so I think if
this individual would like to make more
money
I think this is still important for him
to reflect on the facts and yes he can
still hear this conversation right now
tonight and'll let to not proceed with
this position U but that is a a risk
analysis that we all have to make right
now and I myself in the position I would
take more
money understand I don't
get
support
he's supporting 100 he's supporting 1003
or whatever you
said you heard
it so I'm just going to recap
and make sure my my suggestion was some
of the
items ipst utilities admin we keep that
IT specialist keep that the give antiv
violent coordinator keep that free
department manager we suggested to
10% the Sleep manager will already
removed prior meeting we're keeping the
Moto equipment operator
mechanic and we're keeping the me all to
position and the other two position are
Grand
funded Mr ferrrari
so we're keeping
for thir time is it Grand
funding just like give anti so out of
that page the only thing you're taking
out is IPS
foring Street depart
manager the street manager you're just
changing Street manager to, 351
yes
okay what happens if uh he does not
accept that position that's why I'm
saying that I think that you better put
the other position back into the budget
or I mean we're just going to have to
make an amendment or something that's
one I just want to be clear that we can
always make anend you guys are
suggesting this um and that yeah I mean
it doesn't really make person refuse the
position we can make budget
appropriation
we have done that in the
past any other discussion on
these hold on just for clearity on that
though the the daylight between the kind
of the two uh thoughts is really is is the difference between the 14% rise
and the 10% race
correct yes right okay cuz they I don't
know it just started kind of sound
framing it as if
there was going to be we would have to
add back in other position and then
commit to fully funding that position so
really the negotiation point right now
is is 10 is 10% versus
14% corre yeah the proposal is to move
forward funding this position of
$3,051 and if the person refus the
position then we'll do a budget
amendment and to bring back the
position F old position but it's not
unlike other races that have been
brought before us and we haven't given
the f
so again though it is I'm sorry no no no
that's what I just want to say again
we're not listening to the dep
department head who is trying to do
something that's going to make us more
efficient so that's my last comment we
don't really have I mean you
know we're listening to that we're just
saying that the amount that that's
budgeted which is what we're doing
budgeting is not the amount that you
know just not that it's a budgeted that
amount not saying that you shouldn't do
that saying that that's not the amount
of of raise that we want to get towards
that
well again let me reiterate my position
because I'm the one that runs the
day-to-day operations move the position
back down to the four% raise and
reinstate the other
position
was the position
vacant that now he's taking that's
already been a vacant
position
Mr it doesn't it was V okay so that so
okay I just wanted to make sure it was a
vacant position um so it's not like it's
so it it could conceivably be on a list
of vac position that we could remove
conceivably
I think can Mr leine clarify for us
please oh yes the street manager
position has always been in the budget
for years that position would stay there
yes and then the other budget has been
it was only vated this year the solid
waste director
that keep that in the budget at
88,000 and then hold these manager jop
the 4% and I'll try and fill a new Sol
waste director adse and we're just
assuming that the person would not
accept the 4% as opposed to the 14 10% as opposed to the 14 because
originally the way it was presented was
only 4% it was a regards to finance way
it was work oh but I can't speak for
okay
now next step you're going to clarify
what on this yeah we'll go back and
discuss are we okay to add that position
back let for questions to
everyone or we just go with the street
department manager under
000 yes and if there's any adjustment we
can always do a budget re appropriation
yes and both of those positions have
been filled one individual resigned when
he had an unfortunate engagement with
the local on enforcement and if you
don't want to move the one up I'd ask
that two positions be
reestablished one's there and
reestablish the other
one
do we have that on this list here that
the May is talking about is that on this
list excuse me is that on this list two
position May saying add add the
two Sol is on the list yes yes we do
have those two
positions stre dep
Mr M yeah please mayor's requesting
correct yes got
[Music]
you
I'm okay to Mo
hard discuss here on here unless there's
no any other
changes it's fine did you oh you have
the vote so I'm
against AG green on this sheet to move
forward did you mean any of this
I make enough notes but I don't know
what what the results are I'm going to
go back again just tell me to the ones
that you're not what are you not uh
funding the IPS it position okay that's
the only
one um the next one that we had already
the fleet
manager that's it is that correct um not
everyone yes all our expert
let's go back to the power and let's
entertain Mr Williams and M
changes regards to
these so M Williams can you please go
through your changes so that mrar can
make note of it and then I would ask to
go through the suggested changes and the
same thing that
Mr so for the first page it was the code
enforcement officer the assistant to the
city
engineer are you we two code enforcement
position are you saying just one one
just
one okay keep going down uh one
assistant to the city engineer one
Junior civil
engineer one assistant Corporation
counsel one Meo streets
you got you got to uh keep up the Mr
Ferrari's not telling me to stop please
because we don't want to go back this
again got you please and two Water
Maintenance you want to take those
out that's what he's listing
wow what about water treatment what
about the water treatment that was in
your original one quot force
moner uh one uh assistant to the city
engineer right right
uh one assistant corporate councel
correct and one jior
engineer
okay how about the
street and then I got two Water
Maintenance workers
correct
treat
instrumentation he
said
water it's actually
half follow me that
Eng well the uh junior civil engineer is
already out already out
the I would cut the civil engineer
position I would leave the code
enforcement I would leave The
Corporation Council and
M
and the carpenter I would take out sewer
and water at
one one
touch that's
our what we need and uh quite frankly
they're already under staffed
so you saying remove the carpenter
that's one
yes my only Cuts would be the civil
engineer and the uh
Carpenter and the civil engineering
should go into the fund for fee for
services to hire so that they can do
their
work so you just sh Shifting the line
correct that's okay property manager
Carpenter so Mr P would you be in favor
of removing the property management
Carpenter and return one for the water
maintenance
workers I'm not cutting any of the water
m maintenance workers I oppose that
they're already under staff we need good
water we need our sewage taken care of
it's one of the most important functions
in the
city so I'd be in favor of the property
management uh Carpenter being listed and
returning the both Water Maintenance
workers how any other
discussion my position I'm going to
agree with Mr Williams on the
recommended change and some of the
change on Mr parap the yours so I am
okay with
that any
motion so you're okay with getting rid
of code enforcement officer is what
you're saying I just think it's
interesting because I think our
residents complain a lot I mean you know
I think that those are the kinds of
officers that we kind of need for some
of the quality of life issues that we
hear about all the time from
residents okay a code enforcement
officer I'm just saying you look over 20
21 22
23 the trend of the vacancies and that's
try to address again I understand that
it's been difficult to find staff but I
do think that the department you know
has needed the staff and again I go back
to the fact that I think it was
difficult during Co um for recruitment
of different positions anticipating
hiring one individual next week a couple
other and on top of it it's also safety
and revenue line absolutely but we have
heard of applicants accepting and for
other reasons resending so I would focus
on the one fill
first okay Mr far you have notes of
those okay so we're looking at one uh
code enforcement officer one assistant
to the city
engineer one assistant Corporation
counsel and one Carpenter and we're
going to keep the MEO streets that what
we
said we're going to keep the two water
mainten guys I said I think got four
water mainten guys
right
in instead of taking to away so only on
we're uh go over one more time we're
looking at uh one Court enforcement
officer one assistant to the engineer
one assistant Corporation
councel and one
Carpenter am I
correct and one of Theos one what oh you said one any okay
and N Street
and you're taking out the carpenter
aren't you I thought you were also
taking out the civil engineer
but oh that one was already out
gotcha no the one that was out was the
junor junior civil engineer but you I
think suggested taking out the yes right
yes okay so they didn't say that which
one Junior civil engineer no the civil
engineer civil
engineer I don't know if you're still
with that but I thought I heard you say
I did say that and I said keep the other
positions because they are necessary and
I also said put the civil engineering
money into a fund to use for the work
that needs to be done fee for services
so okay I I I I can agree to that so
move the civil engineer one what is it
the
[Music]
80 but we need to find out first what is
the amount that's
necessary 93 3 6 plus the benefits right
65520 would you put those in for the
fees for service as well yes I can agree to
that in 2024 it's budget for 100,000 so
you want to do
2023 I was oh I was just looking at what
it has on this grid I don't know who put
this together budgeted for 100,000 this
year for the
increase so these figures aren't
actually what's in the budget the
figures that are on the that was given
to us tonight are not 23
numbers these are not the 2023 numbers
is what I'm saying these are the 2023
numbers up to 2023 they are the 23
numbers not the 24 numbers 24 numbers so
which would you like to suggest keeping
it whatever that 24 number is correct
whatever the 24 number for that um civil
engineer move that into the fees for
service Ling salary and benefit yes
whatever
that all right so I think we this one
added so we're in agreement for that so
Mr Ferrari please make
notes and that's going to go to uh fees for service under the engineering
uh fees fees for service for
engineering yes somebody's got to do the
work H somebody's got to do the work so
he's going to have to hire
outside yeah
that's I got a question about that
though if if we're if we're moving it
into the fees for service line Ember
including the salary and the full
benefits um what would be the purpose of
that cuz that to me that wouldn't really
um and in any cost savings it would just
be a different vehicle and if we're
going to spend the same money then I
think that we should defer to uh the
department head and that and and and do
what's already in that now so yeah if
we're going to do go that way
right sense makes sense that's my
suggestion
any other comments to
this so we ready to move forward with
this just verifi information that you
have and whatever was suggested you have
those pretty
sure I'm try so I don't think those were
the two discussion that we held over
from the last meeting unless we have
other
discussion um may I request that you um
input these changes and come back to us
let's see where we are oh I guess
not right now yes yeah so so you're not
going back to any of the other
discussions because the two of you made
those decisions the other evening about
the overtime for example we're not going
to revisit the that discussion well when
we get the now oh okay the mayad
mentioned that discussion with Chief
Marino you want to address that now
before they go and make changes or yeah
sure absolutely yeah yeah sorry sorry
for thanks yeah oh I think it's
important to recognize that as a newer
council member it's important for me to
reference the uh Chiefs and maintain I
think uh very open and uh I think
effective lines of communication as I'm
going through my second budget process
it's important for me to to recognize
the severity of the decisions that we
make but also making sure that I'm
functioning in line with what I uh
campaigned on uh which is making sure
that we have a Equitable budget and
financial process uh definitely my
conversations with both Chiefs I said
that I would be opening open revisiting
these conversations um but never was
there any promises uh I am only one vote
U but definitely as has happened
frequently on the council I can make a
decision and switch my mind at any point
in time uh so definitely uh using every
minute up until this moment uh I would
say as of right now I am still
functioning in my same stance that I had
the night
before which is cutting the cutting the
over time I'd rather not get into
semantics
but well except we have a lot of people
here so I just you know great and I
appreciate individuals being present in
our uh uh our process I hope that we
have the same viewers night in and night
out um but definitely as I had my
thoughtful uh discussions with both
Chief Marino and chief Clifford uh which
I definitely very much value uh I have
to sleep at night and the determination
that I made is remaining in line with
what I said
originally
go ahe please so by making these Cuts
we're inherently developing a a deficit
in the next year's budget first of all
we're right around 1.9 Plus in overtime
for the police budget um we have two
major events coming up with the
Christmas parade and stock Adon as well
as both the Fire and Police Department
this is the time of year where most of
the overtime budget is used because
people want to take time off in the
holidays uh we're just creating a
structural deficit by cutting these um
especially when we're looking at hitting
these targets and going Beyond um we're
likely to hit 2.3 to 2.5 in the police
over time if you calculate those in and
the fire over time we are likely to uh
be very close to that Target as well so
cutting those just creates a structural
deficit that's just not
wise go ahead please well I also think
since do since Chief U Marino and chief
Clifford are here I personally would
like to hear their thoughts about the
cuts to the overtime budget but I also
want to point out that I think at least
in the fire department budget in the
contract um we can't really eliminate
the overtime figure that's in the budget
as presented by the chief and the mayor
because if we do we still have to fill
those hours which are mandated through
their contract and so we would end up
paying for them
anyway great and I would very much like
to add that before both individuals
speak which I think they have the which
I would support want to hear from them
also they have vacant positions that are
open right now the mayor and his comment
also highlighted that any vacancies that
are unfilled members of those
departments are able to utilize those
funds the best needs of their
departments after hearing both
conversations with uh both Chiefs um
there are strategic opportunities
throughout the year to bring on new
candidates new firefighters new police
officers the expectation is to hire as
many as possible but those are going to
exist later in the year my
recommendation and my position is
utilizing those gaps until they hire if
they hire to subsidize what we have uh
not supported and then again if there is
a need for more there's always an
opportunity to amend the budget is that
correct Mr Mur that is correct yes we
always is we do that bud fre
appropriation any that's using the money
that's in there
yes depending on how you structure the
budget whether the money would be there
or
not so yes it's it's using money for
positions that are not filled which is
what as the mayor and also Mr Wallen
told us that that's what they do within
their Department if there's uh positions
are not filled then and they need it
they draw some those the money from
there to fulfill for to pay for the
positions are filled if if there's need
for overtime uh in those lines so but
you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul I
mean and the reality is that I think all
of us wish that we could hire to the
empty positions right I mean we wish
that but it's not happening and if it's
Peter pay Paul is what's been being done
it's not you know it's not something
that we decided that you know to manag
it that's how it's be
managed so um
Mr if you like to hear from Chief Marino
and chief yes Chief Marino yes I just
want to
Echo I I'm sure you sent the email out
to everyone that we sent to us and if
you have read that email you will see
that the bottom that the chief has made
you know some pretty good remark in
terms of the funding in his in his email
go ahead
please thank you for having me thank you
to all the members that are here I
apologize
for that a fire at c stre um we didn't
have a full compliment to go to to
respond because there are other calls
initially I notes on in front of me but
initially there were three
weeks let me tell if any of you were
there you would have been extremely
proud of every one of those people heavy
fire in the Attic within minutes I
thought we were going to lose two houses
within minutes they were up in the attic
and they extinguish that's great and
they do that
constantly also these gentlemen and
ladies have been working for the last
two years to
fill the open spots you come to a time
when they just can't do it anymore
mentally physically we putting them at
risk the overtime budget like I
mentioned in the email it is what it is
you could Finance it at million half or
you can Finance it at
250,000 it's contractual we have to go
up with 20 and I will not never with
them at Jeopardy there are times I have
to order back for fires there are times
I have to order back for big events
that's going to happen that's going to
happen this long time to I'm not putting
them in danger and
when when that mind is a million and a
half like I think it's going to be next
year going knowing that it's just the
way it
is so to the point that we have some
flop yeah okay there may be some fluff
the Flop is not really fluff because
what we're trying to do is take care of
this problem that we have in hiring it's
not that we haven't tried we've been
trying uh you may have seen the
Billboards that we've had you may have
seen us all different kinds of EVS so we
budgeted six knowing we'd have some
money from people that retired not after
a full year we have that and we're
intend want to hire 14 if I have 14 good
candidates that check all the boxes and
they're capable people they going to
make us all proud real
hard but if you take that money to pay
for the overtime that we're going to
have I'm telling you we're going to have
we're not going to correct this problem
we have this problem's been coming for a
long time we've tried to get in front of
it doing the best we can things don't
always happen the way we wanted to um
I'll entertain any question you have but
I got to say I've never been proud of
the heart Department more than I am now
all right
[Applause]
right thank you for the work yes any
questions thank you Chief thank you
Chief have question sorry so you said there's contractual
that that amount over time has to be in
there is that I'm sorry are you saying
that there's a certain amount of time
that must be in there we have a 20
person minimum right every day we got to
go off for with 20 I'm never walking
into the mayor's office and saying mayor
can't do it we have 18 because they're
they just we haven't mandated anyone to
they're credit there are other
departments they're mandating like a
wheel it's
constant they've stepped up we have a
mandate of one person ever especially in
the last two last two years um so what
I'm saying is with a 20 person and
minimum
staff and we have seven openings from
reti one is I've said this one is um
what's the ter very much and then I
believe we
have six or seven long time
uh either injury or sicks so every day
we're we're like 14 before we open the
door 14 in the yep so that's why uh you
know to 220 every day we're going to be
at that number we spent ours making sure
that our number was right we gave you a
true and honest figure that that's where
I think we're going to be and we talked
about comp
[Music]
time contractually the members have the
ability to have comp
time if they all decided tomorrow hey
you know what give me my comp time not a
little bit all of it you know want to be
and that's all
contractual they haven't done it they're
don't think they're going to it's not
what they intend on but the number of
million and a half could look like
kids change if that was ever to
happen
[Music]
than um so talking about the police
overtime
budget we have similar challenges at the
fire department a little bit
different we we don't have a minimum
Staffing from the contractual end but we
do have a minimum Staffing on a daily
basis that we have to fill fortunately
um we don't necessarily have to mandate
as often as we have in the past but we
still have the the possibility that we
have to mandate
officers um we do have a minimum
Staffing level that we like to meet each
night due to our staffing shortages
we've been running short on that and yet
we've still already reached 1.95 million
in overtime if we had filled every
position that we needed to fill we
probably would be over 2 million at this
point um closing in on a high 2 million
range just on Staffing levels and this
is before we even get to our proactive
controls which we would like to
do like speed enforcement quality of
life issues possibly anti-me initiatives
in Hotpot
areas the way we've been able to keep
our crime down um I you know compared to
our neighboring cities is investing into
our investigative unit we have uh 12
officers 12 detectives on federal task
forces doing an awesome job taking down
the worst of the worst Defenders not
only in the city but at the capital
region level because you all know that
they like to travel um you know but
we've sacrificed having those extra
positions in our Patrol level so we
can't do what we would like to do and
you know ultimately we're going to work
within our budget um as I've explained
to a couple council members we will stay
our budget the best of our abilities it
changes our strategy whether we are
proactive on a daily basis or whether we
are simply reactive to just Staffing the
streets um and answer the calls for
service on the investigation side um the
there it's more like more like the fire
department where it is what it is we
have one case that I'm sure everybody in
this room is aware of we've already
spent $90,000 just this year on
investigating that case and it's not
even solved it so there are cases that
sometimes just require the attention and
we're never going to stop giving them
the attention and then you just never
know when the next big case is going to
happen we've been fortunate if I knock
on wood that our major cases have been
down this year but you just never
know
questions go ahead please just follow to
the chief's comments where the data out
there we're seeing a drop in crime we're
talking about the major crime part one
crimes other the more serious element
where we're being proactive and creating
a high level of deterrence and actually
have a fairly good closure
rate on the other hand our calls
for noise problems for speeding in other
lower level events is actually going up
and so to continue to have that good
trend line so you're dealing with de
with the most serious crimes but also
deal with the community's needs and the
evolving nature of uh what we're being
requested to assist to you need the
bodies and that cut you know that you
have moved forward on you know it's
about 18,000 man hours in the police and
fire department and so you can't expect
all those calls to be followed up on or
dealt within a manner that makes us all
look good when you've dropped $118,000
up in in the budget that I've given you
there are assumptions yes we're not
going to fill all those positions but
that money will be used to offset some
of the overtime cost where these slots
have to be backfilled with individuals
in the police department we're having
trouble getting people to come out
sometimes for overtime I'd like to have
some levels of Staffing at a higher
level than we're going on in the street
with on some nights and some
ships go ahead please but I think so
that the mayor's Point those two aspects
of noise and speeding I think it's
important to identify and i' would love
to hear the perspectives of of any
individual in this room uh throwing
bodies at noise complaints has not
solved any of those issues and
complaints I think it's going to require
a more strategic uh stance to address
these issues that are frequently
happening regarding regarding holiday
seasons uh and to the the the issue of
speeding we've thrown uh bodies at King
road to be example and we are still
hearing those individuals come to our
Council meetings on a frequent basis uh
unfortunately we have to make those
difficult assessments of where else are
we going to invest in besides overtime
to address not only the immediacy of
those issues but also the long-term
effects because if we solve them today
we frequently notice that they trans
that they transition to other aspects of
our community so my position here is
challenging us to think outside of the
box to bring into those circles uh more
stakehold ERS to understand that
expecting these departments to figure
out these problems on their own is an
old age philosophy we as a community
need to work together to understand how
do we incorporate our neighborhood
associations how do we incorporate our
schools who are also uh pushing for
Community schooling narratives this has
to be a joint effort and again I'm
against throwing money at overtime to
fix
ite please I think
that's I'm sorry but I do think that is just you this was a discussion
the other evening too there's certainly
long-term kinds of strategic planning
that again I would say I would want our
fire and our police to be looking at
even more so than residents um because
they have the expertise and the
experience in helping to solve these
things but we have immediate needs we
have we have immediate needs whether
it's fire or crime um or in the F in the
case of fire the the emergency medical
um calls that they go on so I'll throw
that in along with the fire um you know
I I understand that long term there's
solutions that perhaps we can come up
with but what do we do tomorrow and I
just really maintain that I feel that
this will increase crime and I think
this is not the time to be trying to
increase crime especially violent crime
I think that the way that we've been
successful on um over the last you know
couple of years we need to respect that
and and and and try to continue working
day by day um and yes at the same time
we have longer term strategies like you
mentioned the other day you know sending
folks into classrooms to talk to kids
and building trust between Youth and and
our officers those are great I mean I
think all of us are really in favor of
all those strategies that have been put
into place especially around community
releasing but it ain't going to solve
crime
tomorrow sorry please i' just like to
congratulate um both Chiefs on the
community engagement with all your
officers um that are out there at
neighborhood meetings at STS um in
schools things like that and again I I
will agree with Miss Patrick I mean
there's just issues that need to be
addressed on a daily basis here and I
wouldn't want any of the residents of
the city's connec to suffer
um whether it's going to a fire or or
having a police uh call responding to my
residents uh if someone's trying to
break the door in or things like that so
I mean this is something that just needs
to be addressed and it needs to be
funded it doesn't need we don't need to
cut the funding I
agree Mr M oh please sorry so Chief
could you please speak to um like the
various you've come to us several times
then with technology in in that
conversation it's been like this is
going to cut back um um police need to
be in um off the street because they're
doing what paperwork so and that there
would be some cost savings that was the
that was what we've been hearing so I
would like you speak to that and also to
the give Grant um the most recent that we saw the um the amount was like
418,000 but in the budget that the line
we're seeing is a little bit lower than
that so
two where where where are you seeing
less is it in the revenue side or I
think that
um that's that's probably more an
accounting thing I would I'd have to ask
the finance is that is it showing more
because part of it is salaries and the
other part is reimbursable overtime
possibly I think I think it's because it
runs in between years we looking for
2024 I think it goes into 2025 okay it
does start in July so we're we're just
looking at you know for the year we're
not putting the whole amount in because
the whole amount is not 202 so you got
half of
last and then then as far as as far as
the technology um helping us to become
more efficient yeah I stand by that and
it's going to it's just that it's not
something that's going to happen
tomorrow these are these are these are
investments me if you're taking in terms
of building a house technology inv or
the foundation that we're building upon
you know at some point we have a real
time operations center that we're
building out that we hope that we could
use one person sitting in this Operation
Center to send the Drone out to turn
down loud music so we don't have to send
personnel there um we want to use the technology given the body more
cameras so that we can have supervision
over officers from the police station
and the ability to do quality control
better on them so we we have a more
efficient and a um you know a more
professional Police Department that's
those are the invest Investments That
remaining Patrol finder once we get that
up and running it's going to help
officers um while they're driving down
the street know there's a call waiting
so they don't have to take more time to
drive across town to get to a call so
but we we just our deployment these these take time to roll out um the
Axon one year so far it's going good I
can start seeing that next year we're
going to start having you know more and
more that becomes more efficient see
it's fair to say that we're already
seeing some savings by not having to
bring officers in on overtime to train
them we're training on Shi now so that's
one savings but we're not there yet
where we can completely eliminate uh a
whole Training Day by using virtual
reality but perhaps next year or the
year after my training Sergeant will be
like we can this day doing sh so that's
where we're going
with as you know and I know it's been
this is like an ongo every year we we
have similar discuss around over time
yes
so I was hoping like as we as the years
progress we would be seeing those
reductions in over time and we're not so
you know that's all that we're doing to
increase technology and increase
efficiencies but you know every year for
10 years remember we've been having this
discussion so I think on our end the
biggest driver of overtime right now is the lack of Staffing lack of ability
to put those loops on the ground today
we had five officers come Staffing so
that's a milestone for us now five
bodies can count as Staffing so that we
won't now have another eight bodies for
Staffing until um I think that we're
talking about May of next year so once
we get to that comp full compliment of
Staffing no give or take five bodies
we've always been fluctuating all five
that's where we'll start to see it
stabilized but it's been four years
since it's it's been in flux so we we
were close um right before the pandemic
but set us back not ler those n we to
catch up okay the thought process I'm
hearing from from my colleagues is that
those positions that are not being
filled is where you can then pull from
that pay over time that's what I'm
interested
that well
we I put the number of 15 now as a good
number it's somewhere between 13 and 15
based on two people retire next year
let's go with 15 all those 15 I hope to
five for January so so so that will only
leave 10 positions and of those 10 we're
hoping to hire them in July at the
latest so that would be basically half
of a year salary for those 10 and it's
at the Academy rate so it's U step one
so it's um it's it's a little bit of
money it's not a lot and I
be
thatat putting on a
spot any other question for
the
no I was just G to say the
same all right thank you Chief thank
[Applause]
you
so can we have those change excuse me
can we have you input those changes and
bring back to us to see where we
are you know you know this is mostly our
general fund we haven't even started
talking about the SE water fund I just
want to remind you
guys so we taking a little break
yes
[Music]
e
h
e
re
John
[Applause]
sure
I just want to add one thing uh it's
talk to I to Mar Maran
and John I'm that the carpenter that we
arged all that time for we had already
Tak it out of the
budget we search to find that for we
couldn't find them we realizing come out
he was budgeted in 23
not4 to sa some
paper you
gotop real from the other side need
water no water
and all right all right everybody has a
copy everybody has pass review we can go
with um general
fund the difference is showing here is
zero the changes that was proposed and
the
adjustment zero itself
out
for the the changes um regards to the AL
funding Z wait wait I'm not
understanding what you're
saying excuse
me7 oh no no no you have the wrong
that's my my
little this is what we just got
handed he said that was a note in his
head so you should have it out showing
where the difference
is so what we doing is uh the figures
from both the the additions and
subtractions come to 1.5 million and
benefits add up to two
222,000 gives us the uh the reduction in
general fund expenses of mil
73299 which is the same of the revenues
for the refuse 1,
73299
so I'm sorry but what you're saying is
if we bring in the fees as suggested in
the mayor's
budget no okay then please repeat what
you're trying to say total revenues in
the mayor's budget is 111 mil
86,4 120 city council they would not ra
okay they changed the mayor's proposal
um and they uh reduced the re revenues
by 1,
73299 fuse Chang so that brought the
budget to 109,000 109 milon
35343 and to make it up they have all
these different changes we added some
salaries subtracted salaries and
different things and plus benefits uh to
come up the amount uh equal to 1, 73299
so revenues are reduced by 1.7 million
and tempatures are also reduced by that
amount that was from the last two
nights Mr M yeah please so I think that
uh just I'm looking at some of the
differences that we're seeing here um
and I'm going to be honest to say I
don't know how much um of this is driven
in in in policy or how much of this is
some level which I feel is presentent of
some political posture in here and I
don't think that we're as far away as we
might think that we are but I think that
based on some information um that that we heard here tonight I would like
to strongly suggest that we
recess and um take some time to to uh
reflect and digest on some of the
information that we heard tonight and
both from um uh department heads and um
from our colleagues I think that that
would be a good uh course of action I
think that that will give us a little
more um uh time to reflect and really
digest what we heard tonight and I think
that we can um get a little closer than
what we are that was just that' be my
strong
suggestion came up with that
two control when I get these brilliant
ideas I just which is
brilliant thank you so
Mr you
this that's my that's my strong
suggestions that we have yeah understand
can we just pull that out a little and
that's Mr we just walk us through
regards to this the water okay let's
start with
and then we'll come back to Mr okay
sure
discussion again the city council for
some reason does not want to raise rates
so we're cutting back uh the rates by
you know uh
25239 773 so they don't raise rates um
and to fund that the uh city council has
wants us to use funds of 2.5 million and
the appropriated fund balance of 23,000
to uh offset that
Gap I mean I think go ahead please I
have to clarify I'm just going to
continue repeating it that it's not the
council that is necessarily suggesting
it that the some members of the council
so I just want to continue to be on the
record for in that in that language
majority Finance I totally get that I
just don't want to be lumped in there so
make it easy so go the next B um there
was nothing done
on water there was nothing done on the
water side on the water side we have a
short of
88347 and again I wish that uh everybody
take a look at uh the amount of rate
increase which I don't think is
substantial uh 16 bucks
year 1625 a
year uh with with offset that
cost so if we break that down what's
that come to 16
1625 1626 a year for the water increase
rate per day looking at
044 so 4.4 cents a day increase and
what's it for a month uh for a month
$16.26 divided by
12
35 at the increases waste water Sil $168
46 for the year that is
242 c a day how much a month uh $14 a
month as for increasing
all which probably could have went home
Wednesday going back to okay so going
back to Mr Farley's um suggestion
what
are I'd like to see this carry out
tonight as far as the capital and the
water store and
absolutely
there I think if you want participation
and you want the public to know what's
going on we reconvene
Monday
one other comment just on the general
fund want to engage in public discussion
I ask the council my budget is
not include any specific money to settle
the PBA
contract we haven't entered into formal
negotiations but again I asked the
council members and nobody has responded
you know what numbers you feel
comfortable
in giving me the authority to move
forward with that their contract uh the
local 28 of the fire department is
included in the budget I submitted to
you PBA contract expires December 31st
of this year and
we're uh setting up the first meetings
now and that even at low
percentages has significant
impact I'm not looking for public
comment
on you got to tell me you want me to put
a zero on the table
put some number there that
uh consistent with what we're doing
across the board with the rest of the
workforce M Williams I put finance
committee regards to Mr Harley's
suggestion what is your talk on
that there's uh been a lot of discussion
here tonight uh definitely I'm not the
one to to make irrational decisions and
I always appreciate having more to just
gather my thoughts uh all the comments
I've had with our departments and then
reevaluating where we currently are I
definitely feel like we're getting
closer uh I would absolutely appreciate
having a recess to Mr Pal's Point uh
Monday is a council meeting and although
I don't know the timeline for having our
next meeting uh I definitely always
welcome uh input from our community so I
don't know when our next meeting we'll
be able to reconvene but I would
entertain and recess
yeah I'm not I'm not available Monday
until like after 6 or so
6:30 almost ready for 7 o' meeting
Monday your suggestion is to vote on the
budget on
Monday reconvene the finance the finance
Comm and ideally vote at the council
meeting so you do that we have to budget
a little bit of time because the staff's
going to have
repair the ordinance and related
paperwork so I would then I would
recommend that we just if we're going to
do that then we do on Tuesday and then
call another special counsil
meeting because we're not going to have
time it's like I um it doesn't youan
know what my thoughts were but tonight I
didn't really not expect to be here this
long so I don't want to I didn't
wow um so I I don't want us to like push
forward um on that so um so that's where I need that and
um Mr chairman again well it is the
weekend if people have questions or
ideas reach out to me
or Derek or Anthony
and try and accommodate you in the the
best way uh in terms of uh getting
information or scenarios that you'd like
explored or uh analyzed no and I have to
say I've been getting a good response
from anony and in terms of answering
questions to members I don't think any
question has been out standing they get
it they will ask and I you know re ask
make sure I looked at the question and
submit it and they have been very good
in providing that to us so I than you
doing that for us so I can't be here
Tuesday night um but I do want to say
that I would be um in a similar
situation as Mr Toro and I'd rather just
keep going going and I understand what
you're saying but I do think
that I think that I don't think we're
going to change our
mind I don't know I don't know I mean we can still talk it all out but
um I I think that we could talk it out
tonight and see how people
feel but you're something other people
won't change their
mind well I I would love it if other
people would change their minds you just
made that assumption yeah yeah y but
then one way or the other whether we
talk about it on Monday at
6:30 before our 7:00 meeting or if we
talk about it this evening I still I I
guess what I'm saying is let's talk it
out and see if we
can what I heard Mr Mr say he want to
digest information
that's and I and I just I mean I I think
we're in
a I think we'll be in a much better um situ ation uh with the short ACC to
do that's my that's
my M I know we had some speaker here
tonight is that
what Recons the chief Z contribution
tonight is that what I'm trying I'm not
putting yeah no no absolutely yes I I I
F I'd like to uh Factor what we and I
think that we all are compell to factor
in what we heard today from um our fire
chief and our chief of police I think
that that that definitely a major factor
and what I'd like to uh kind of reflect
upon and as well as um some of the
insights that I've heard from my
colleagues here and I think that um
quite honestly we know we're being real
we know that there is a level of um some
POS some political posturing that's
happening and I think that a a recess
will allow us to kind of bring some of
that down and then I think that
collectively uh make a more uh informed
decision so I feel strongly about that
just based on um what my experience has
been thus
far um so on Monday what I mean what
time would we conven Finance oh Tuesday
said he can't oh okay no you said you
can come
Monday yes I can be after almost right
till 7 o' meeting you're you're going to
be I am going to be close to 7 o' oh
right he's saying you can't convene a
budget meeting ahead yeah well I mean
all you need is finance
committee because I I'm not going to be
here Tuesday but um I mean if you wanted
to do a different day or
time I I would be able to be flexible
about that but
Tuesday I have a another
meeting well you can't be flexible at
all because I mean a lot of us have made
accommodations for Friday
meetings there's no way I have look I've
been all the meetings here and put
everything in I try to be here to make
sure that I wasn't expected to go
for
be but again you don't need I me you
don't need me at the table you all know
how I feel I mean we've kind of talked
this out for hours and hours and
hours you taken off the table you might
have an
epiphany I I have digested the St and I
talked to the Chiefs that I've you know
read and I've spent hours going through
this I mean over and over and over again
um I know I can appreciate you being I'm pretty settled in your position and and if that's the case then right
then then you would need to attend and I
think that's okay I don't have a vote I
mean well NE but however yeah I still I
can appreciate your position man so are
we going to um reconvene Tuesday
that's I'm here for
that how long do you anticipate the
council meeting on Monday night it's
fairly
short maybe spend an hour after the
council meeting and then have like a
special meeting after that to
vote you could recess that council
meeting you wouldn't have to have a uh
special
meeting and oh the res say and then vote
after that is that what you say or even
if you called the meeting Tuesday or
Wednesday whatever day all
right he could do Tuesday he couldn't do
Monday so
um you can be at Monday's 7 o'
meeting
and stay up until 11 o'cl on
Monday I was suggesting an hour the
meeting have generally been going fairly
quickly I don't think
there's any item on the agenda that
should evoke a lot of controversy or
discussion so move that meeting forward
and well we don't know that I know just
it's my wishful thinking I mean Mr
Farley's Epiphany will cross the
community so we may have a lot of people
that come and speak about the budget and
that's going to take us over so even
though no one came to the public hearing
now they have a lot more information
which is really a good thing so is
anybody besides me and M Doro interested
in trying to do this
tonight and if not can we do it
Wednesday so that Patrick and
unforunately be my
father
Thursday's the yeah so we're back to
Tuesday actually doesn't have to be
adopted until the
first reconvene on Halloween or actually
on the
1 put you under some pressure
has
[Music]
lot of but we've always done it well I
say there were times when we got into
fights and it went into
December but it's always been done by
the last day of October in recent time
but the charter says by November 1st so
I think if you adopt it on November 1st
you're in
compliance
whether or not we want to
wait yeah well my position is clear end
up doing a
dance how come good Tuesday okay I'm
good
Tuesday Tuesday Tuesday I I can make it
on
Tuesday Tuesday is not great but so no
one else to do it tonight no
good I've made plenty of accommodations
so far so it's disappointing can't
be I have been here every single meeting
any
abent and I have been from starting to
ending every meeting this be sacrifice
people walk away from meeting people
attend meeting I'm here all the meetings
sacrifice so Tuesday it is then so
okay we'll move to fin commot
toess a motion to recess the finance
committee to chose 5 p.m but I I still
have to call the special city council me
to words to say there is no budget and
then so it becomes your prerogative you
could recess this is ridiculous a city
meeting on
Monday I have Tuesday Wednesday whatever
day okay then I'll do that
you have a
motioning
second second I'm G to Second all in
favor I I do want to I have to go on the
record as saying I will be shocked if
you all change your if anybody changes
their their viewpoints I appreciate what
you're trying to suggest but um I don't
I know I wasn't politically postering I
didn't say you were I know I know you know I don't Mi words either so we
know
that toj
all right one second please Council MERS
council
members our Corporation Council says
that I should call the council members
our Corporation Council so need to call
the special meeting to order and then
say that we're going to have a special
meeting have a speci meting Tuesday so
I'd like to call to order of special
council meeting for Friday October 20th
2023 roll call
I want a roll call that you're here I
want a roll call on that vote about
there's no vote there's no vote to to to
have a special meeting you don't have to
vote any one member can call a special
meeting no this is because we have
called a special meeting for this
afterno we can't just walk away from
meeting so we just have to call it close
it and then we going to recess Monday
and then reconvene so we weren't able to
pass the budget today so therefore we
will not have a special meeting tonight
so I motion to Adin special
meeting all in
favor thank
you I thought you were calling for a
special meeting on Tuesday I thought
that's well did you just vote on
that no I know but how do we how do we
don't have to officially do anything
about
Tuesday
so Monday
[Music]
11 what is What is
the
we would recess have Finance
meeting
Rec