did you happen to check mailbox in the B
office
on oh
okay this is updated I I did print that
vac job this is updated
[Music]
version since this morning yeah they
hired two people this
today
on it's
5:00 call the meeting for should I go in
the office
everybody yeah it's 5 o' thank you if
you don't
mind 5 o'
[Music]
somewhere you need a
drink
from the one I sent you
today oh kind words
[Music]
okay figure
[Music]
out is
[Music]
your
I'd like to call to order con C Council
committee
meeting uh excuse me yes committee
meeting
for what is today
when November 1st 2023 um before we call
the commit to order um Mr M is going to
be absent tonight so Mr Cen will explain
to us the
process thank you um obviously Mr M the
chairperson of the finance committee um
we have two members president from the
finance committee um city council
follows Robert's Rules of Order um
there's no provision about who and our
to who would be the chair tonight uh in
mr's absence as the chairman Pro Temp um
therefore Roberts
rules um essentially if the regular
chairperson is not here um some other
member of the committee uh should call
that committee to order uh and then a
chairman program must be elected between
the people who are in that committee and
it has to be done by majority vote which
means because we want have
two so I just point I'd like to ask Mr
Williams to call the finance committee
to
order all right so like to call finance
committee to order before us we have uh
a series of information impa let's first
s of businesses that you have to uh
elect
a yes sh between I don't care go ahead
okay so before us we have a number of
documents uh that I'm just going to ask
uh Mr ferari to give us a of M and make
sure everyone does have a copy of that
speak I yeah had set out to you on your
front of you the vacant job list this is
actually as of 4:00 today uh the
difference is updated because the
difference is excuse me can I interrupt
you you should already have that from Mr
Ferrari do you have Miss yes pck yeah I
put a I gave I gave it directly to her
okay this one yep you updated list uh
and there's two positions uh that were
fil actually today so that's why we
did I did updated
uh the second the other piece of paper
we have is
U is Mr ver had requested the U the the
budget amounts for uh Fe for
[Music]
services uh two the pieces that John
there asked for was a for services of
the uh appropriation of 2023 comp
2024 proposed budget and he wanted to
see the uh percent change uh in regards
to that and for the general water sewer
and golf funds um if you look at the uh
general fund you'll notice that the
total fees for service throughout all
departments is actually uh netive 4% 4%
decrease
um the water is a 10%
increase uh the two fund is 0% increase
in uh F of services and the golf fund is
a 30%
decrease the
other question uh John had was the mag
positions he asked the request of all
positions um within City within city
conect um ested to see the 2023 adopted
budget the bills the 2024 prop bills um
the proposed budget salaries uh and the
percent increase or decrease associated
with each position within the
[Music]
city so there's three pieces of paper
that we just you have everything three
pieces you have three sheets this side
one long oh no I only have I have two
this size and one this size
might no that's what I
already should have three this oh I got
[Music]
it I
[Music]
all
right so based on our conversation and
how was left last night uh the premise
was that we would evaluate current
vacancies in addition to Mr mutar
suggestion of um reviewing the fees fees
for
service and identifying some uh
additional dollars to transfer to the
overtime lines for the police inire so
at this time I'd like to open the floor
to council members they have any
suggestions or recommendations based on
that
information Mr prefer to oh so thank you
so I just as at the end of our last
meeting my understanding was there was
we needed to get to the number of
777000 in order to make that happen and
So based on what was um what Mr M had
requested and just to be clear we're not
talking about management positions at
all here we're simply talking about the
vacancies and Fe of service um those items are what we're talking about
so
um that was how we left it last night
and one of the thing one of the
agreements my understanding is that Miss
Patrick want to make sure that we um
make our police no time lines whole and
um we're trying to talk about how we get
there um by taking out some of the
positions which we have gone through we
have the information in front of us that
does not include the
fringes but it's um so they calculate
the fringes we talk about that um I
think that's that's probably it but the
mayor did have his hand up oh Mr Mayor
thank you Mr chairman just want to go
over the uh budget process a little bit
and again I'm not quite sure what you're
trying to do start the budget process in
May and June where uh department
head to start preparing the next year's
budget working with the finance
department they start to
assemble uh what's happening within
their Department what they'd like to
do every line item in that budget is
gone over three and four
times before it goes into the final
graft now I've sat in all the positions
that you hold and this is my 22nd budget
so I understand sometimes their
skepticism sometimes you think
department heads might be trying to pull
something over on
you I will tell you that every line in
that budget I can support the
assumptions that are made now that does
not mean that some of those things that
we started in June or July that they
haven't changed
now and if the council's reviewing those
and those assumptions are incorrect
things have changed where there might be
better savings there might be increased
expenses I would expect the council to
take that into consideration in terms of
your
deliberations but you came in here you
took uh $1.1 million out of Public
Safety wasn't happy with it didn't quite
understand the logic behind
it
uh you've now gone through again I'll
call it an interesting
process now you're putting the $1.1
million in and are looking to remove
other positions
that I really feel are important I don't
mind going through line by line if some
the department heads here to look at
those in terms of what the expectations
are if we fill those positions what our
goal is as we all know recruitment now
is
uh somewhat of an issue so it's finding
people with the right skill set to bring
in to the slot so that we can deliver
the services people the city need want
and
deserve
but just to to gut those is a mistake
and it will hinder my ability and the
department heads to manage the city and
deliver the services that we need and
again if you tell me what your goal is
if you want to cut Public
Safety let me go back to the department
heads and say this is the number the
counsel wants out of there and we'll
manage that if you want to do stuff in
office of General Services tell me what
your dollar figure is because you're not
going through the line by line and
having the department heads bring up the
assumptions that we've used to come up
with that dollar figure so I want to
work with you but I don't want to go
down a path here where you're kind of
you shifted everything back made one
decision shifting everything back and
now you're going to take another
position that seems to be what the trend
is that I really think would be an
adverse uh State for the city and hinder
my ability uh in department heads to
manage the city going
forward Miss Patrick um I think that
working on the budget is the most
important respons responsibility of the
city council I think we all can agree on
that and I think that we certainly have
done a lot of due diligence over the
last several weeks I actually wrote
something up this afternoon after
spending the afternoon contemplating all
that we've heard over these last few
weeks from the mayor our finance team um
and our department heads and all the
answers they have provided to our
questions I believe they have presented
a realistic fair and balanced budget to
continue reiterating the same points
over and over is unnecessary I've
certainly been told that many times by
my colleagues around this table over the
last few weeks however I do want to say
I'm not in favor of cutting into the
reserve Fund in a way that will
jeopardize the city's fiscal Health as
was presented to us um by our fiscal
adviser and our finance team I believe
that the increased water sewer and waste
feeds uh fees need to be implemented as
presented the decision last year to not
Implement what was requested worsened
our situation this year and we'll
continue to do so next year as we were
also uh told yesterday if we don't put
these requested fees into place we've
made some major investments in improving
the water treatment facilities and
creating the constructing the new pump
station and we Face increased costs and
finally I think not fully funding what
the fire and police Chiefs have
requested in overtime puts our resident
safety um at risk and I cannot support
that as I mentioned uh many times um
therefore I'm recommending that we
accept the mayor's budget and I ask that
the finance committee um finalize their
vote so we can move on with our business
thank you and just for clarification
you're canting your comments yesterday
yeah um I I I spent the afternoon really
going back over everything as we
discussed last night that that was what
we needed to do today and I really think
that it is a fair a fe budget as
presented and I'm I'm not going to talk
anymore I don't think tonight thank you
so with regard what mer said we thought
we came to the table when we we were
going to put the 2.5 million into the
sewer fun but when we got to the table
that night we were presenting with
information uh from you that that is not
something we could so we believed we
were at a place where we want to pass
that budget however we were not able to
do that um then uh we heard from Miss
Patrick as well as from the fire
department we came back again and and re
and put some of the money back so um I
just want to just State publicly that we
have gotten to the place where we
thought we could pass the budget but
there are those who agreed at some point
but now disagree that we should go back
to originally so um what even though
last night I thought we were closer
based on our conversation but now I'm
hearing that we're not we should go
straight back to the mayor's budget um
we have heard from residents at least I
have in terms of increase in the water
and sewer fees and there are those who
are going to say well it's only this
much a year but with the median income
in the city connected we have a city
that's like basically the has and have
not so let's just put it out there and
there are people who called email text
said this is going to impact me so we
have to listen to that and so what are
our other Alternatives we need to
increase our Revenue so that that
becomes better and then we need to look
at places that maybe we can get more
Revenue that maybe we're not getting the
best we can so um so the bottom line
probably in this is is that we don't
want to increase our fees for our
residents and we thought we could we
were going to be able to get there by
taking out some of the um positions
there are positions that have not been
filled in years and what happens is that
when there's a shortfall some play sales
they take the money out of that so it's
not like there's anybody losing their
job just want to be clear about that
those positions aren't filled haven't
been filled so that was why or some of
them were new positions that were being
added to the budget so it's not like
anyone has has lost their job or has
been in the job for the last three years
for most of them so we are looking we're
looking at that to get to that number of
777000 We Still um put that all the
money into the um Public Safety budget
which is was like a hard stop for some
people and having said that it's it's
those of us who are willing to have
discussions and make uh agreements to
get to that place so that was a hard
stop for other people that was
recognized but we're also recognizing
we're not trying to increase anything
for our residents whether it be um taxes
or soore and water and so we were trying
to get there our original place we we
were there with 2.5 million we're told
we can't spend it even though I mean if
there's other places that have done that
I gave you the information last night
where you know it went up to CC court
and they said it was unconstitutionally
they say that they couldn't do it
however it hasn't happened in the state
of New York so I'm not willing to roll
with dice on that so um I'm of still the
mindset that we and and additionally
initially we said no sewer and water and
then last night we said half of that so
again yes well again I don't think we
all agreed on that just mention but my
point is in initially initially it was for Mr M that was a hard stop he
was like absolutely none last night he
left this table saying I would go at 50%
if we if we could actually quite frankly
getting you on board with it and you
said yes last night so but I see that
yeah I did spend a lot of really going
back over I think that we just are
nitpicking at some of the staff
positions for example
and trying to like put together from
bits and
pieces it just it just doesn't make
sense when we have in front of us a
balanced budget but I mean I'd like to
hear from other people right but I would
say leaving last night it made sense how
to get this budget passed and I was
functioning with that understanding
today of how to ensure that I met your
ask was changed at some point and I
respect it however I didn't find out
till right now having heard of from a
number of different individuals that
function within the city uh City Hall um
there have been vacancies opening open
for a consecutive amount of months in
some instances years my understanding
from my management background is are we
hindering applicants from coming forward
or we uh knowingly uh just keeping these
vacancies open with no intentions of
ever uh hiring into them and my
understanding is we need to make sure
that we are accurately that we are
accurately utilizing every funding
stream available before we increase
taxes so in looking at these and hearing
from a number of individuals that are
currently sitting here to knowingly pass
a budget that doesn't do any one step to
um increase opportunities to get
individuals hired we've talked about
these vacancies and we are taking off
positions that are currently posted with
the understanding of we cannot remove a
position that is uh being openly
advertised for but to continue to fund
positions with no intent or no
concertive effort to bring people into
this uh City Hall I I can't support
that Mr R Mr chairman would you outline
those positions that you're talking
about I'll have department heads address
them I can I think allowing some of the
other council members to speak before we
sure transition
that
personally I would like to hear from
department heads as the marage has
suggested on what what positions that
may have and again just coming out of Co
all right that's in the past there was
no one looking for position so you
couldn't hire anyone but anyway I would
like to definitely hear how you would
run each of your departments without the
proper um Personnel in it that's what I
would personally like to hear
Mr I just want to add that all these
positions they are currently advertised
and being up on the board and we're
always trying to uh uh get people in
that the only one is today I think the
clerical aid for your department think
is has not not
aded she only resigned two days ago
right the
rest always is up in advertising from
the position my next comment would be if these advertisements are continuously
posted do we do any auditing
of the accuracy of those postings and do
any changing in real time to to
adjust and some of these have been
vacant since 2021 and maybe before and I only say 2021 because our the data
sheet that we're giving only goes back
to 2021 maybe she we should have gone
back five years and see how long they've
been
open Mr Mayor and
again we do the posting we do the
recruitment we take
referrals
all these positions are civil
service and we've seen since Co where
they stopped giving tests you know the
easiest thing is when everything works
right there's a
position There are rules that we have to
follow to hire and they've taken a
competitive test we're given a list of
names and those people can be
interviewed and then appointed to the
position some of this now
we don't have valid lists uh sometimes
they're running tests which I don't
quite understand some of the theory
behind them
but it's frustrating so that people also
sometimes don't want to take a position
because they have some stability where
they are and if they take a position
here we have to tell them this is a
competitive civil service position we're
not quite sure when the test is going to
be given
and I say sometimes we do a lot of times
we don't but if we hire you you have to
score in the top three in order to be
appointed on a permanent basis and that
hinders the ability to recruit somebody
because they don't want to give up some
level of stability for something that's
perceived to be more of a risky
undertaking Mr F so excuse me to your
point Mr Mayor I think that there are
some things that are outside the realm
of our control as far as recruitment
goes well not recruitment goes but as
far as you know Finding qualified
candidates um especially regards to the
Civil Service process so I guess my
question then is um and I really welcome
um feedback from all council members and
everyone here so does that mean that if if if we
realistically can't are there some
positions here that we have tried to
fail not due to um any fault of our own
but just haven't been able to feel that
maybe we should look at removing in
order to um more uh efficiently spend
that
money and and I don't I guess I should
just tell that by saying right that may
be a possibility I to right I don't
think that it's a you know I I think we
definitely want to move um from the
place of like either or and just kind of
talk about where does it make sense and if it makes sense um then then then let's go in that
direction Mr you have any comments
before
I so I say one of the main questions and
I I always like to to preface being a
new council member I think that
functioning in the the veil of what's
appropriate and what's not appropriate
to us but I think as long as you put
forth a considered effort of wanting to
just get to the bottom line uh I fielded
a lot of questions with regards to the
uh meos and just how this is a
detrimental position for our community
and truly uh Bears a lot of the weight
with respect to uh trash and also with
upcoming snow removal and as we beautify
our Parks making sure that those areas
stay consistently uh uh uh clean moving
forward uh has there been any uh
entertainment of conversations to
specify these positions as opposed to
putting out a broader ask of a general
job
announcement I have said that they
should be posted with
the position we would like to put them
in some I understand they're still going
out
generically where when you're in that
title you can work in different
departments at different times and in
fact that's part of the flexibility
where employees are cross trained so
they can be moved where the workload is
and if you have specific questions Mr
lefon can address it oh if you would
mind Mr Leon I I think I identifying
your openness to specifying those job
announcements if it truly is from the
standpoint of what is the efficacy of
our generalized approach and if that is
not yielding any increase in applicants
what behooves US of transitioning our
train of thought with Rec the M position
under it current job
description um requires a CD license 90%
of our equipment that the MEO are
driving is a dumb truck salt spread a p
truck or a packer under dot rules and
regulations you have to hold and
maintain a cdlb licensed so meos are
going to be required to have a CDL
license to um we'll be honest that you
know we' made an attempt to bring up
some of the salaries to meos um to make
it more attractive um this past year
um again it's a recruitment um somebody
with a CDL license be can move into
another position somewhere else and make
more money um I've looked at the list
I've looked at where the vacancies are
um it was made that there is a there are
two vacancies Within Department that
they are new requests that was made
after talking to my department heads
when we do a budget I go over with my
department heads and we look at the
needs the workforce that we need to
maintain a quality level of service to
the back of the city okay but it's not
known as the logistics during the days
of the park that two meos will move into
what we call um ground Keepers and they
will take care of the ball fields soccer
fields softball fields for the whole
entire summmer that means my Workforce
for regular meos to do the other
maintenance on islands and Parks which
we have 31 Parks drops by two so the
request was to request two more meos in
the parks department to fill that void
all summer long that we lose the other
um in the street department what people
have realize is we have a Workforce
where most of our employees have been
here five years or more they get four
weeks off vacation
you got 10 employees they all take your
four weeks for the year I've lost one
employee for 40 weeks i' lost them for a
whole year so those'll set employees
down down to nine for that year take the
VAC take the sick leave take the
personal leave take the bement leave
take the family medical leave take the
workers come out of those 10 employees I
probably have seven to work with so
there are vacancies because we'd like to
get those filled because we never have a
full Workforce there is somebody always
out whether it's like I said comp
vacation personal sick they're entitled
to those days they take those days but
it's a loss of a body on the workforce
so and the sense of the waste division
there's eight meos we utilize those meos
to help with the season we also have an
agreement with the Union to help train
some of those employees so that if they
do start as a seasonal and and they're a
good work good work at it they come the
work they move to a temporary position
they get a little bit of benefits they
get a little more pay and then they work
towards their CPL license they get the
permit we give them drive time we
started a program where we'll have the
CDL trainers inous to train them so they
can take the road test and keeping some
of those positions gives them the
incentive to do that so they can be
recommended to a full-time position with
benefits and the extra salary for their
families positions are removed what's
the incentive for somebody to come here
and try and
grow but but I'd say to a point of
clarity does that request for the meos
for waste and the MOs for Park is that a
generic 10 job vacancy announcement or
does it specifically ask for two meos
for sewer and then two or then eight
right now it's pretty much generic
because we move them around we can
change that but what happens is when you
need people a on a good day we don't
need anybody in waste on a bad day we
may have to go to another department and
say we need some people to helping waste
we need some NEOS um if they're locked
into that department and they say we
don't have to go there what do I do with
the waste how do I pick it
up I spent enough time on the back of
the garbage truck even as the
commissioner picking up the weight from
the trash so have my other department
heads and managers within the
Departments so we have to have some
flexibility okay to move some employees
around good example is we move them all
around coming December 4th I put the
memo out today um we all move to third
shift we have third shift that starts
winter winter monst for snow it's 3:00
a.m. in the morning to 11: we ask for
volunteers volunteers first so that we
try and get the volunteers that want to
come on the third shift then if not then
by seniority within the classification
class classication in needing the
agreement is meos that is their
classification this year we were
fortunate we have nine volunteers take
it so nobody had to go on the night
shift if they want to um but again we
have Parks employees going to the night
shift beginning on Monday the 4th of
December SE division employees and
Street Department Division and just so
we can keep the streets clear get salt
on the ground starting early in the
morning before Traffic Rush Hour starts
so NEOS are vital position with the city
but again we have to have some open
positions because there has to be room
for some of the employees that are
growing within us that we're training to
have a position to move into and we need
them filled eventually because like I
said with all the time off that employee
given we never have a full staff every
day and I would say based on that uh
description which I truly appreciate
what I'm hearing is there's a need for
more Staffing so from The Sounds
flexibility is not a luxury that we
currently have because we just need the
staff if I didn't need the staff I
wouldn't have requested anything in the
budget like I guess what I'm saying the
flexibility of being specific or or
being too generic wanting to disperse
staff throughout the needs of the
Departments we just need staff we need
that so then again we have Services we
provide whether it's snow whether it's
waste whether it's cutting wwns whether
maintaining City own vacant properties
we need staff Meo is the you know
because of the
they are flexible and snow
removal without a c I can't put them in a dump truck I can't put them in a p
i can't put them in a Assa
SP I'm sorry Mr pres no I was just um
listening to what Mr saying and I think
that the fact that he's cross trained
these employees you know I just I
appreciate that as far as the level of
you know um to be effective and and
maintain a certain level of service for
the city um and I know that historically
you know when I you know seen the mayor
out at um this place or that place you
know we're constantly talking up about
he's consistently saying like you know
trying to recruit people so it becomes
all of our um unofficial title to
recruit people um but to your point uh
Mr Leon we also are competing with area
municipalities and we have to keep some
of those positions in place for for
someone has a position to Aspire to
right
okay um and do we have um any of the
positions that might not be um I guess
for lack of better term some of the
positions that are are aspirational
positions for guys that we could that
within your thought that we could um
remove in order to um uh use that money
more effectively or just based on your
wealth of knowledge experience that
that's just not the
case I guess part of my voice it's not
Co by the way the goal is to I mean
employees starts you know it's a
seasonal it's more of an entry level
position and some of them are very
content being a seasonal they don't want
to they don't want to move up to obtain
their license yeah but we still need a
labor force right we still need some
people on the back of that truck to help
us load out trash or blow leaves or help
with the tree and picking up
there still a labor force and I did
request in the budget there is a request
there's some people in there as a labor
loaders um to really bring some people
on board that don't have the aspiration
to move up but I need some good labor
force people okay and they deserve the
benefits but we're working with a very
slim Workforce we've been doing it for
years and we've been trying for years to
bring that Workforce up but you always
have to have a few open
positions you know to bring that person
that started at the bottom who's gone to
that that training and obtain his
license to give him you know home with
the city hope make get a career
here if you filled every
phys you got to wait for somebody to
retire and hire
somebody so not counting the proposed
bills for
2024 how many vacancies do you have
El yes you have the list I believe there
is eight in the was Department three in
the bureau service and two in the parks
department pleas
includ yeah I want to know what you have
in just 23 this includes 24 as well yeah
the only only difference will be the two
in so you have six vacancies right now
eight and three 11 you have 11 vacancies
uh
they don't have it in front of
me but you have to understand that some
of those vacancies within the waste
department are providing the funding for
the seasonals who are working as the
laborers if you look at the actual
year-to dat expenses I think Anthony can
tell you is some that money is being
used but it's being used to fund the
seasonal employees
oh now didn't you just I was told that
seasonals just recently got laid off you
let the seasonals go we always have of
uh a Workforce of seasal the seasonals
are here for 6 months okay some of the
seasonals uh we keep a number of season
on in the waste department because
they're working on the back of the um
the trash trucks because they don't have
currently they don't have a CDL license
and I stated if they come in as a
seasonal and they don't want to work
towards their license we will give them
they get their permit we will give them
the drive time we will give them the
opportunity to take the road test if
they pass it a recommendation would be
made to meet them perur ml because now
they need the qualifications of an ml
because they have a class B
license but if the vacancy doesn't
exist they're not going to get to the
Nao
position some of these positions have
been longterm
like is that correct have long
term some probably in the waste debate
has been long term there's two positions
in
ARA they're they're there again it goes
to reproving
you you have to you have to have the CDL
if you want to fill an Meo position and
right now we go out to the board the the
advertisement is there we did hire one
last week um so we are constantly
looking and constantly trying to fill
those positions it's not there just to
take
up funding they positions that are
needed if I could fill them all I'd be
grateful Mr Mayor
in that us to do the
perdum if you want to delete an Meo and
move the money over to
perdum we could do that the reality is
the goal is to try and hire the
MEO with the CDL so that they're greater
value employee if we don't have that
then we still staff with people who you
know don't have the certification and
we're trying to create an incentivized
uh program that we made some
modifications with the collective
bargaining agreement to uh map out a
clear path so that when people come in
they understand that there's an
opportunity in front of them but they
have to meet certain things and we want
to work with them to get the permit of
take the test and have the CDL license
and hopefully when they have it is that
they will stay here because in today's
market our pay scale is on the lower end
of of the pay
range the benefit package the total
package we give is very good but when
you have younger employes they tend to
just look at what's in their paycheck
and not the health insurance not the
retirement not some of the other
benefits that uh are really a great uh
component of the city's overall package
which is my my point directly where the
desire is to bring in this uh on well
experienced staff member year
one does that desire evolve if that
vacancy remains such if not increasing
into year two year three year
four where case in point and truly I
think this is another reflection of why
our city is called the electric city um
Mr our chief Marino and instituting the
EM program I think that that is a truly
adaptive concept to trying to get ahead
of retention and recruitment issues
and I think replicating that in other
facets of our local government is going
to be one of the approaches to simar to
the law office where if we can't bring
in assisant corporation councils how do
we make use of light work let's
potentially bring in some par legals and
not reduce those assistant Corporation
councils to zero because Mr colon would
still like to have another uh well
experienced or specialized individual
but truly if that vacancy
extends one year two years three years I
think it is prudent upon us to evaluate
how effective are our job
announcements which goes back to if I
like Parks I like parks and I understand
the mission of uh or the intent of the
department to use those more as a
transient Workforce so that you can
accommodate some needs uh globally in
our city but I I imagine Mr lefon you
would take any Meo if they were
president
uh so would you be opening would you be
open to having a specialized job
announcement meaning you're hired for
the
parkday to get to get a person in the
door
yes an Meo is an Meo as long he has a
CDL license they got to be able to plow
sow and saw my biggest thing if you look
where the most vacancies are in the
waist or in the street department the
parks Department M were a request for
this coming year for 24 there were no
openings in the past years okay so that
was to help increase the labor force
just because of the amount of work we
have in the Parks new people coming
online um you know we we just need the
workforce the other is the street
department the street department does
work with the sewer department in the
winter mons snow all get the streets
pled the city is connected we all get
the phone calls eventually I'll come
back to me okay but when they have a
workforce out there and um three drivers
down um Stow comes in we request
overtime they want to come in for the
overtime they come in if they don't they
stay home guys will come in and drive
for an additional 5 hours or so six
hours they get TI driving that truck I
don't have additional meos to replace
them in the seat that truck sits in the yard somebody streets aren't
getting done I need a Workforce I need
meos to be able to drive solve do the
things we need them to do budget that I
put forth to the mayor as a request for
the staff that I feel is needed to do
the job we
do it's your decision whether or not to
accept it change it cut it the number of fills I gave you is what I
feel is
[Music]
needed but that's also based on the
number of applicants we
receive abely trying yes there's there's vacancies all around the city we
like consistently to fill that
understand because we have
needs so I know that was one um
Department specifically were there any
other areas uh appreciate Miss Patrick's
comments uh asked the collect Council to
come back with some recommendations uh
and
with respect open the
floor no okay it's
department so I think at this present
time I'm truly trying not to speak for
Mr murar I know he was highlighting uh
the uh fees for uh for
service as an intentional
line
so again we trying to get to
777000 Mr mavari um he was considering
the um looking at the fees for services
how much we spent year to date and if
possible a reduction in those Feast for
services to get to that number um I
don't know if we're just like spinning
our Wheels here since we know that that
we Patrick would not be on board with any any changes but I don't I mean
it's really the finance committee that
has to passed the budget out of finance
committee so I don't have a vote there
anyway I was just making a statement
so encouraging us to move forward
because we've you know been going line
by line through everything now
for some
time was your ra no
I would say even if it was conceivably
possible I don't think me and Mr Al
would would get to an agreement at this
juncture I I truly I spent my day today
trying
to understand how to get closer to your
ask so hearing that today then my whole
framework of interacting in this
conversation shifts
dramatically
so we have to it has to we have to get a
budget pass out of the finance committee
order for move
forward um
so you haven't really stayed your
position but if you my position's been
clear from day one I will not support
anything that builds a structural
deficit in into the budget that's what's
happening here I will not support that
and I'm also a little confused because
you know we've been hearing for the past
year and a half two years we have to
fill the positions we have to fill the
positions now all of a sudden we don't
want to spill positions and this is a
sustainable
plan to create the workforce that's
necessary to get the job done that we
the citizens
expect I'm not supporting anything that puts a deficit into the into the
budget okay so just to be clear yes we
had said we need to fill position but it
hasn't happened it's not up to the
council to fill positions we can make
recommendations some of us have some of
those people have been hired some of
those people have not so it's not up to
us so yes we have been advocating but
they haven't been filled so right now
we're facing the reality that they
haven't been filled for multiple
years and so if if it comes to the point
where they need to be we could
definitely we it but right now it hasn't
happened so it's not something we're
making up it's sitting right in front of
you the
facts and all it does is create a
structural deficit into this the
budget so how do you propose that we not
have a fe increase that we consider our
taxpayers who are reaching out to
us we have to have Fe increase if we
don't want a deficit built in that's
just the facts we all approved the the
water um The Pump Station that's a
million dollar payment a
year it's got to come from somewhere and
unfortunately none of us wants to raise
fees or taxes none of us I'm assuming
but I'm I'll think I'm pretty safe in
that assumption but the fact is the fact
we have a situation where if we do
anything else we've created a structural
deficit that's only going to make the
problem worse 1 2 3 years down the road
unless we look at some very strong ways
of increasing our our revenue and we say
that every year to your point and we get
nowhere that's right so then we have to
like make it a point that we do that
because every we can't consistently say
to taxpayers you have to do more and more in terms of of footing our
bill when we I'm going to say
collectively because we are the
legislative body I understand the mayor
the administrative body are not doing
anything to increase the revenue so we
need to really make a concerted effort
to do that because I'm hearing from
taxpayers all the time and perh and I
understand that some people like well I
hear from somebody I was talking to
someone and they said well I I was
talking to people that they were like or
a person they were like oh that's not a
big deal and I say I understand that but
I'm speaking to people for them it is a
big deal so we have to consider everyone
so we came to the table like okay it's
not a big deal for you it's a big deal
for you let's meet halfway in the middle
and say we'll do 50% now I'm
understanding that nope that's not even
good enough so you know
we we have to see what's best to balance
budget we also have to look out for our
taxpayers and for some of us maybe it's
a small amount but for some some other
people it's it's significant so we have
to take that in
consideration and if we talk about
vacancies again they've they've been
multiple year vacancies so um not
cutting any positions or not getting
anybody out of a job that's currently in
a job just want to make that clear Mr
chairman Mr again and multiple your
vacancies if you take anyone title uh
like firefighter police
officer this case the
NEOS where we have a large number of
those
employees that Junior position is almost
always empty you have retirements in the
fire department every year you have
retirements in the police department
every year so that entry level the first
one on the chart is always open but it
doesn't mean we're trying not trying to
fill that and it's not part of the
overall Staffing of the Departments so I
think it kind of mischaracterizes it we
say they're open for multiple years you
have to look at just the hiring process
and the reality of life people spend a a
career here they retire and or move on
to other things but those positions then
end up so you'll always look at it and
there's going to be an opening in the
police department there's going to be an
opening in the fire department there'll
be an opening for an Meo doesn't mean
that we don't want to do it but that's
the reality
and in the
whole talking about the going halfway
are you talking about also in the
garbage I
would I would say based on Mr palam's
statement I think we've done a a
successful effort at
funding uh positions with the intent to
bring those into the workforce really
well uh but I I would love your
recommendation I don't know what
organization would
successfully uh continue to fund
position without adjusting their
recruitment
efforts I I I I that is not the budget
that's human resources so if you want to
talk about that that's a separate case I
don't have any issue discussing that but
now it's the budget you're the guys that
came to the table with
demands nobody else so if if you want to
start from there then we can go from
there but uh the human resources is the
one with the recruiting not us and I
understand your point that can be a
discussion at a committee meeting but
right now now it's the budget but I
would say we just heard from a
department chair that says there's no
interest in investing that job
announcement and if I heard it correctly
because there's an ask in the parks
department doesn't mean even if he hired
that ask would be fulfilled if the need
was greater in waste so then my response
is if we just need
Personnel why are we specifying and
let's start with what we
have all you're doing is creating a
structureal defic that's all you doing
period me yeah I just want to clarify
that I could I'll go ahead chair I told
him to post those by Department reality
is when they get higher the need may be
different so
I'm saying that we've tried I've tried
to do that hasn't happened I'll take
care of that I'm not sure it's going to
get the results that people
say but I will have those announcements
modified specifically mayor yes thank
you sir uh and Mr Ferrari I I think if
you specify this Paul tell me if I'm
wrong if you're specify you say you only
you are a parts M they don't have to go
to garbage if you need
them that's what you want then I don't
know what you want me to do with garbage
and the people aren't there Mr thank you
um py back off what Mr Leon said um a
lot of this is geared by our collective
bargaining agreement which talks about
the needs that Mr lefon may see at a
given point in time and there's
flexibility built into that for Mr Leon
to assign somebody to fulfill the need
based on the title of the position so
it's not you know when we're filling an
me position there's no me parks right
Civil Service world it's just the
position we have to assign it to a
particular Department um and then within
that there's flexibility within the CBA
um and the Union's aware of that for Mr
Leon to be able to assign based on the
need and there's an order that he
follows for that based on
seniority my response is I I don't see
us having the luxury of being particular
right now because we just need the
workforce
[Music]
did you hear yes yeah I just want to say
that we didn't come to table with our
demands we came through the table with
our suggestions for the budget which you
have done as well in the past so it's
not like it's not like the discussion
around the budget has always been
exactly what the mayor presented my
knowledge I don't recall it being ever
exactly the budget that came to this
table so it's not about demands but it
is looking at the budget overall and
coming with
recommendations um to the budget which
most of us have have done before even up
till last year um so I just want to
clear that it's not demanding it
certainly is recommendations and and
trying to get to a certain place and so
that's what we should be doing to work
together and uh I'm sorry that some
people feel that that that demands as
opposed to
recommendations and concessions on on
when there is some council members says
I absolutely cannot get there it's like
okay we can meet you halfway so um this
is where we are today and um as we left
the table last night we thought we were
uh closer than we are today see that
things have
changed
I'm oh I'd like to know I mean looking
at the revenue a huge portion of our
revenue is in those fees so I don't
really see how we me obviously we have
the casino that's great
um that looks pretty steady but I
mean I don't really know how else we
could bring in Revenue to the city
except through the
fees um you know I think and I agree
that I don't think any of us want
to uh add to the burden of our residents
but you know again I think that had we
done it last year we might have been in
a different spot but again they're not
it's you know I don't know if I think
Anthony said that last night but looking
at this I just don't know how else we
would bring in more Revenue we're doing
well with the property management sales
and um continue to increase that you
know every year but I I was wondering
what other people felt about what their
ideas were for increasing the
revenue if not those
fees and for the sake of repeating it
again I'm not against fee increases that
is something that is naturally going to
have to happen just based off the
Investments that the city has made what
I'm against doing as a first step is
blanketly stamping our current Staffing
model without identifying ways to either
improve our recruitment efforts or truly
ask the question of are we able to fill
this
ever and if that question is not
answered with an amount of certainty I
think passing that tax increase on to
residents
I I I think that that's not an
appropriate way
budget so I just said I need to ask the
question for first of all we we
discussed that we were taking um A3 3412
which is FS and um a3120 and a 3122 off
the table so are people open to looking
at other positions or that's an absolute
no then you know in terms of
um not filling the vacancies and trying
to get to the number that we needed so
that's my
question mrle so I think that um I'm I'm
definitely I'm open to that and I think
that what we have to be really approach
to this it's not a gotta moment this
doesn't have to be a oh you didn't do a
good job in getting people I I don't
think for a second that Mr Lan is out
saying oh qualified guys and and and and men and women don't come
here I don't think that's what he's
doing he's actually I'm very much uh
sure that he is out trying to get
qualified people to help maintain the
service of cities the job market is what
it is it is a changing job market so a
lot of this conversation is not about
necessarily laying on the feet of
someone around um their inability of
effective recruitment but it is
recognizing the market that we're in and
so then it's like well if we're unable
to do that with our resources what are
some of the other things we do and where
can we better use this money and I think
if we approach it from that to the
mayor's point and I appre appreciate his
um flexibility to say hey look if that's
what we're talking about let's Identify
some of those positions and then let's
see if that's a um a feasible way of
doing
things I'm just going to say that I
think that we get where we start to dig
our heels in um
and if what's happening right now isn't
working then it
does you know compel us to have a
certain level of scrutiny and it's not
about who did what or didn't do what
it's about relying on each other to be
Innovative to help along with the
process and I think if we use that lens
we'll be much better off if not we're
just going to be sitting here thr in our
thumbs let's be honest about
that well as the finance chair for
today I I I believe we are yet again at in in mass
and I know that we are are frustrated
with the prolonged nature of this budget
season I guarantee you I would much
rather be at home looking at my
daughter's um but this is what the job
is uh I to digest your new position or I
guess your your current position uh I
need time to evaluate I I I I cannot do
that right on the Fly I I cannot do that
right as
so we have heard from depart thank you
I'd like to hear about the rest of from
the rest of the department heads here
this evening um to explain their need U
of what they put in the budget and uh
how they need it to go forward as the
mayor presented it so I would like to
hear that at least tonight before so you
can digest that a little bit more we all
can well the other two Department I
think I thought the police chief was
here oh there it is um you want to hear
from them again because we did hear from
them before and as I said no I they to
hear from them again there was a little
uh confusion last night at last night's
meeting about wiggle room and I I would
just like that that clarified a little
bit so thank
you Chief Marina Chief
Marina good evening
everyone
um so I just want to be perfectly clear
uh my position has not wavered from the
beginning I tried to make it as clear as
possible through numerous conversations
with every member of the council through
emails through text
messages I I'm not sure if I could be
any
clear uh we spoke about the overtime at
nauseum it is what it is it is
contractual put in 250,000 that line put
in 1.5 million that line whatever that
line is at the end of the year that's
what it's going to be no way around that
uh our issues
are um our
vacancies we have
tried continually to fight and we
continue we I appreciate
uh uh Mr Williams comment of how we
trying to be
Innovative and we are on we have a we
have a plan for 2024 to fire up to 14
people I believe and that is based on
six positions we put in the budget but
also knowing that there will there may
be some stakings due to
retirements I could have put in there 14
positions and that that line would have
been astronomical you would
walk I'm trying to be a good Ste we the
fire department we're trying to be good
stewards of our money so we see that
ability to take those savings and apply
it to further fers if we do not hire
those
people we are in a
world this problem will continue and it
will multiply to the point where we just
won't have
people so I
probably repeating myself because I
haven't wigg I don't know what wiggle
means I'm not wiggling there is no
wiggle
what I have said from the beginning is
what I say today the overtime is the
overtime the vacancies are there they
will continue we're trying to take money
from potential I don't want to call it
savings but funds that are there and use
it to hire it's complicated uh the
assistant chief myself staff we look at
it we pull our hair out I'm
successful here is it it is a very tough
thing to do we're on track I think we
can do it but if that money's gone I
throw my hands up on to
do so I I appreciate your comments Chief
I would like to direct the council to um
the inservice training which is a 3411
406 in our budgets uh the additional uh
education you're talking about is
highlighted in respect to sending more
ENT to school and that's currently where
that how what page are you on page 27
thank you the 2023 adopted budget was
$113,000 and based on your comments
previously uh each student is roughly
$6,000 plus fees which substantiates
your increase to $45,000 still
corre
without without having my notes in
because I always like to distribute
perfect transparent answers understood
So based on your desire to train more
students um you identified using some
funds in other lines to essentially do
this send more students to school with
inser training I would say from my
perspective digesting
this that would have been clearly stated
if that number was increased to reflect
your your ask but you're saying you're
kind of waiting to leverage some other
positions as they am I still on
board
right based on how I interpreted your
budget from my
perspective that that that's what you
that's that's your investment in
education great but depending on what
number we actually settle on if it's
nine
emps that figure you you mentioned is
just to send them to paramedic school
great not that doesn't include uh the
fire academy and like I said the way we
approached it was knowing or hoping that
there was going to be some funds from
retirements and that money moving around
that has been done in the
past so
[Music]
using
um the budget is what not what we want
because if we wanted I I had
conversations wanted a couple things and
it was perfectly clear you're not
getting what you want buddy so it's what
we need and I can stand here honestly
and tell you that this is what we need
now if you think we should have
highlighted that number clearer in
retrospect maybe but knowing that we
have that this
opportunity from people retiring that we
will have some available funds so that
is what we've been thaning every time I
hear I think you've gone away from it
which I appreciate it but every time I
hear we'll just take those quote unquote
savings apply overtime to be honest with
you I get a major pit in my stomach
because that knocks out our Hing plan
and I'm more than willing to sit down
with all of you to show you all the
details on how we're going to try to
accomplish it and bring some uh
ad but I think one of the the the word
I'd like to highlight is if and I I know
you're going to make a conscious effort
to bring those more students in correct
but we just heard an account of how
difficult these expectations are to get
more staff into these positions so are
you able to definitively say that number
of new students will be an
Ned if I could be 100% on anything I
would be here I a
lot I think we can get to where we want
to be we're working out the civil
services has kind of highlighted that
process that's not an easy process uh
we've gone through the
list our hiring process takes any words
from 5 to six
months we've started it now I think we
can get to nine
EMTs and I'm hoping for four paramedics
that's the only one that could vary a
little bit five maybe you know I doubt
it three probably I'm shooting in the
middle before
um we have an opportunity this year and
it's a one time only opportunity to have
two different paramedic classes the
traditional class that starts in
August and there is another class that
starts in February due to another fire
department um that just hire a whole
bunch of people but they started at 21
they're down to 17 now or 16 and they're
sending them to a class of all their own
so being that they went from 21 to 16
there's some opportunity for us to get
some people in there so because of that
we're willing to Pivot normally we send
it to the fire academy then paramedic
school for five we're willing to go
paramedic school first and then the
academy that presents some
challenges which we've got to be get on the people that we hire we've got to
be as certain as possible that they can
go through the rigers this is no CLE
paramedic school is extremely difficult
and the academy is very similar to boot
camp there's no guarantees of anything
right that's all I'm highlighting that
these are opportunities not guarantees
so that is where we're going to take our
best shot it's not we're just closing
our eyes and drawing dos and picking and
chief we're bringing them through the
rivers TR right people it's truly worth
noting that our fire department is
second to none as the mayor consistently
says for a reason and that is due to the
quality of uh paramax and firefighters
that exist so that is something that is
non available I I appreciate your
comments and that goes to the men and
women that we put on the street every
day they are
fallowing they face a lot of things that
are unmentionable and they show up and
they're there every day and they're
working
over I stand Here proud of them and I
hope that every member of this council
is proud of them also
I think just my position is as I
collectively uh assess the opportunities
that exist throughout this
budget that is where I stand right here
but I think for your
coms hopefully I'm clear I try to be
[Music]
clear I apologize for my appearance um
I'm going over to disc connected the wi
boards influencing change meeting later
so I have to leave right after this so
I'm not sure exactly what what the
question is that you want me to respond
to um just
your the positions
open oh let me just find in here uh so
you have a position for
um let me
find I think a health desk specialist is
that you uh IPS no
ips3 and off uh 12 vacant controlled
officers as well as a dog controlled
officer so I just want to know uh
keeping those positions open in that
those finances there um are you you need
all those positions um the fs3 job is
currently filled right now that job is
being um is being is assisting us with
our control P little while um so that
job is right now the open control
officer class is actually up to 13 now
um I just got word today that our list
through civil service will be available
next week so we're we're already
clearing up with canvasing that thanks I
highly doubt we'll be able to take on 13
new officers we're going to try to
figure out what a manageable number is
but we do have a new list so we're
hopeful that we'll be able to get as
many officers as we can Animal control
officer that's a that's a work in
progress if anybody knows anybody we
really need a second one our current
Animal control officer is doing a great
job um but would be good to have one on
another shift it is a job that's
important
and and as far as your overtime that's
spe specifically what you need to carry
out it's it's consistent with years past
that we spent and you know I I pointed
out to a couple people that I spoken to
that it's remained consistent for the
most part even though we've gotten
raises over the last few years so I
think overall we've actually spent less
overtime hours over the year but
nevertheless the money stays the same
it's it's right where we are until we
become fly staff which we never really
become fly staff as uh as the May
pointed out earlier but um we
continuously try to and that's why we
need
um so Chief um appreciate the
information and she said yes the
overtime budget is is it you explain why
but it has on every year consistently so
um so with that what we hear from the
public and there always the concerns
um given the amount of over time that's
being asked in say we get to that how
can we expect um an increase in response
time because that is what one of the
reasons you say that overtime is needed
but then on the other but I'm also
hearing from you as well from the public
that we saying calls really stacked up
so I was just wondering how that
coincides and how we with given it the
overtime budget requested you're going
to be able to read that these are things
that we're working on that's one of the
reasons that we working with transfinder
to develop control finder so our
officers have a better idea calls
waiting we're working other technologies
that can help us with that I mean but at
the end of the day you
know every we we don't work in a vacuum
um we we handled 75,000 calls last year
it's 200 calls a day to do the math in
your head um and we're probably going to
exceed that number this year um I think
Year date when I asked over a month ago
we're over 60,000 calls so and we handle
a lot of calls as more calls come in as technology increases the ability for
people to call us they're doing it and
um you know we have to respond to these
to certain calls and you know as the
calls go up the need for officers goes
up we don't have those officers to send
so that's why people wait um the the
other thing is is that you know our
unified Communication Center does a
great job over there um but they have
staffing issues themselves so sometimes
people waiting on the line is not uh
indicative of what we're doing at the
police department but their operation
over there and they're limited Staffing
and they also have we've we're uh we're
in constant communication with them
they're very responsive to us and
recognize their challenges so we're not
I'm not laying blame on them but it's
just another factor to take into
[Music]
consideration
[Music]
thank than
you
did you have any other questions Mr T
points to
[Music]
verify I would like to hear
um you know you say me has way what's
your plans to address the structural
deficits that are in in this
plan what plan are you referring
to we'll just go with the 50% one the
fees are 50% because those are the
latest papers because it's confusing
with all
the are you talking about the board the
50 or which
50% the last plan that uh
[Music]
you group had put on the table was a 50%
fee for water water and sewer but
inherent in that as well as the other
aspects of the budget are structural
deficits how do you plan to address
those right now we're trying to fill
that budget gap which we came up with
yesterday
777000 and I'm going forward I know that
we're going to have to continue look at
the budget um Mr col so right now we're
trying to not only increase water and
sore 50% we are definitely looking at
taking some of the money from the
reserves we are we already stuss that
and um and by removing some of the
positions that we are not currently
filled or have not been filled
consistently getting set number so that
we can pass this budget so and and
additionally from from my perspective
that quarterly we should be looking at
what our spending looks like what we
ultimately do is at the end of the year
we sit around this table um and have
this discussion so part for me part of
it is as we go through next year that we
continue to look at it and see where we
are what we do differently and how we
can increase our Revenue I have one
thought that it's not something that the
mayor um is part of but it's it's um
something that you know I would be
discussing with the individuals who do
that and see you know that we could have
increased Revenue there but that doesn't
answer I mean I'm very specific because
that's my you you all want to know what
my thing my thing is a structural
deficit so how do you how do you plan on
addressing I just for sake of of having
a civil conversation um you're saying
like that you all put together or you
all are bringing I'm not sure exactly
who you all is um council members and I
speak for myself um are uh clearly uh
capable of independent thought and I
think that I just would ask for you to
be a little more specific or just talk
to whatever council members you're
addressing because I would say it would
be Mr mood Mr Williams and Miss
Porterfield seem to have come with that
plan that's where I'm coming with the U
all now I may be incorrect in that but
that's the way it's been projected okay
so what my only suggestion would just be
to be a little more specific because I
don't want to you
know that might not accurately represent
the process that's happening here and I
think that that
can put us back into a place where we're
trying to move out of it thank you
so do you want to detail what you mean
by the structural deficit yeah you're
taking away 50% of the fees so you're
inherently creating a deficit in the
water and sewage any changes you make
into the budget in terms of uh positions
is a onetime position to reduce the fees
and then you now have that deficit built
in and you're also creating a situation
where if you do hire then you also have
that built in as a ACC so there's we're
looking at 7.4 let's just say for
Giggles it's 35
million you build in
these deficits you're looking at roughly
five five a half million how are you
going to address
that well first of all mayor said that
deficit is not coming next your his
words not mine and in terms of ring the
positions Mr col we haven't filled them
for years we've said that so that's I I
think I don't think that point that
point can be argued or even needs to be
discussed any further sure it is because
if you have $5 million worth of
positions that don't get filled and we
go through the season and we end up with
either a deficit or a let's say we had a
$2.5 million surplus a couple years ago
we had $5 million worth of positions if
we didn't if we had filled all those 5
million positions we would have had a
$2.5 million deficit mhm that's a
deficit situation but first of all um
and if you take those away then you have
that situation well it's it's not that
many vacancies first of all that we're
talking about but it's 3 million it's
probably 3
million I don't know it's 3 million
because they haven't we we asked for the
number we have the number here except we
have 2.5 in vacancies we said that we're
not going to uh looking at keeping the
police and fire in there so that
significantly reduces that
number you reduc the fire um fire and
Patrol officers who approximately
[Music]
1.4 I was this talking there my numbers
are pretty
close
[Music]
so I can say for myself specifically um
I think I've been clear on my position
with
vacancies I think it is comparative that
we adjust how we hire and recruit is
naturally I think the way that our
budget that has been previously
submitted if you have unfilled positions
those funds return to the fund balance
is that correct I feel until the city
can put forth a considered effort to to
hire into these vacancies I think it is
beneficial uh for the city residents to
reap some of the benefits of that now
after hearing from our finance
department uh that benefit comes at a
cost which potentially could put in
Jeopardy our uh Bond reading that so
correct that's right which is where my
position then shifted because I do not
want to MH completely under May
McCarthy's efforts to manage the city
appropriately and that is where my 50%
came from however if we get to a
standpoint where we can accurately
evaluate and truly say that there are no
other concessions that we can make to
how we redefine these roles to increase
our staffing then that number is what it
is ladies and gentlemen and then we need
to then take a hard look at what those
fees have to reflect um but until we do
that I've identified that those uh the
fund balance should be used in that
manner well I'll ask again how do you
plan to address the structural
deficits so you're stating that if we
don't increase the water fees then we're
going to have a structural deficit and
then next year since they continually go
up we're going to be in the same
position so continually every year we
will not only will will increase the
fees or Actual taxes um on the taxpayers
is what you're saying you will be in a
worse position next year and the years
after because it's exponential impact
and all you're going to end up doing is
uh creating a situation where taxes and
fees will have to go up so much that
this increase will look small I I
completely agree with you there's no way
I mean I really have spent so much time
and I really think that that is what's
going to happen that next year we would
have to have a tax increase that would
really hurt our
residents and I think I mean again i'
I've been here what this is my fourth
budget or my third budget must be my
fourth budget but I mean you all before
me had done a nice job too I mean the
thing has been either level or going
down slightly for at least six years
maybe seven on the
taxes um so but next
year would be hugee right I mean that do
you agree with that next year a year
after it's an exponential
impact just can address Paul F Paul
before last year we did a first raise of
water and sore how many years did we not
raise water and sore I think it was at
least three or four years we four years
then we had one and then you go back I
think it was three years and we didn't
have any where cost of living goes up
every year we know that CPI we've tried
to do our best to hold rates down as
much as we can it comes to a point now
where you know some things
have created an issue where we need to
raise our rates a $700,000 p service has
to be repaid for the next 30 years if
you take it out of your reserves it's
still there next year what do you
do it's I mean we have some of the best
water around we have a great supply of
water we run on a great wastewater
treatment plant um we all know
infrastructure is a it's a it's a costly
subject it's kind of here and we we bear
those costs and we to get that money
either Rec through
borrowing it's a dent service we pay
back or emergency repairs come out of
Reserve funds which we know we have we
had big repairs over the past years a
water man bre that broke over um 890 get
to school um few years back to B cost
well over a million dollars to rep
um how much did the chemicals and sludge
hauling sludge hauling has gone up
considerably was just under $100 112 we
up to 212 now we got to did a new RFP to
get it down to
$155 we do roughly 10,500 tons a year of
sledge and 15 $5 a
p it's it's a lot of money 50% increase
right chemicals have g off considerably
these are uncontrollable cost that we we deal with it's you know energy cost
L um everything has gone up in the
operations of the wastewater treatment
plant store division for the water
treatment plant and at the same time we
have to constantly be looking at making
upgrad because again um we're planning
for the future we want that water supply
we want the resiliency of being able to
turn our faucets on and have water every
day those plans are are always there we
just did the wells we're doing flation
now and in the the Final Phase will be
the well houses and all the equipment um
that's to ensure that we have you a
supply of
water and on the waste water side to
treat everything prior to going into the
MK River where down street just like Le
are pulling water off for drinking water
we're fortunate enough to have the
aqua our cost would be considerably
higher if we didn't have an aquafer we
had put water out a river we be creating
water so we're fortunate in some ways
but again our costs go up every
year and sply this to our
taxpayers nobody wants to like you said
nobody wants to raise rates but it's the
cost of doing
business some has to pay for
it but then most importantly someone has
to do the job to make sure that those
systems are still operational and what
we've seen in this budget are consistent
increases to our fees for services and
also positions um so I think that's
where the struggle truly is is you keep
going after positions but these are the
positions we need I hear you say that
they've been there for years there will
always be open positions people come
people go they retire they're terminated
they leave for other positions they'll
always be open positions we do our best
to fill them and we have agreements in
place with the bargain un that has a you
an opportunity for people to come in and
grow and whether they're in the Parks or
the streets you know they're MOS they
all work together they have the same
qualifications with regards to civil
service it's the same job title it's the
same job description the biggest
requirement is the CDL license without
the CDL license I can't put anybody in a
truck to drive
[Music]
it so I think hearing from Miss Patrick
and then in some May Mr Toro and Mr Pini
uh sta stances
of standing behind the mayor's proposed
budget
correct so I'd
say he's he's I think I'm willing to
make I want my question answer about the
structural deficits I have yet to get an
answer on that I'm willing to address
Some Cuts here or there but I've not
gotten an answer to my question you guys
ask questions all the time you know
that's an important one how are we going
to deal with the structural deficits
because it's only going to cause the
problem to be much more worse in a year
two three years down the
world I would say before before I would
say part of it is considering your
stance with a cautious optimism because
if I remember correctly that was your
previous narrative last year and the the
city's not it's not on fire and I think
the language in which she used which was
very insightful or gu very incendiary I
think was was how I was presented with
my first budget of if you do not approve
100% of what the mayor is saying or if
you do not have this uh uh lines in
order um you are running the city into a
brick wall and I although we are at in
impass yet again I don't think that's where we currently are um I think
we're more or less trying to understand
how do we marginally increase
where we're not having to jump more more
steps next year because the fact is the
money's got to come from somewhere it's
going to come from the fund balance that
fund balance goes down significantly
gets below $6 million the bond rating
goes down costs go up even further
couple uh incidents and the the reserves
are gone and the city's bankrupt that's
not hyperbole that's reality Am I Wrong
Mr Ferrari so so I think the question
then would be um you said that you were
support that you would support some C
where what areas would you support those
I've made those last night with the uh
the clerk's office I think the uh the
council's salary increase as well as the
benefits those are those are some
starters um you know but other other
areas I mean code enforcement is a
revenue line why would we cut those
individuals the uh some of these I think
are Grant
positions the uh some of them are just
plain needed so you know I'm willing to
listen but I put out some suggestions
and so that that that's why I think
where the productive conversation can
happen so you were
saying the position in the clerk's
office
and the uh increase for the council is
where where else cuz I know that that's
pretty on the scale of what we're
talking talking about that's pretty well
we're not going my view we're not
there's no way to get the
777 can I can I just sorry didn't mean
to tr no no no just jump right in well I
just do want to say that that is part of
what happened to me this afternoon I
must say that I mean thinking about last
night in particular I mean I just felt
like we
were going over the same lines over and over again and when you look at
the money it was it was it just was
minuscule in terms of some of the so
that's where I thought I think I just
felt like we were spinning our wheels so
that's really what happened to me this
afternoon as I was red digesting
everything that we
discussed but I'm no you
know I mean I think we'd have to have
like huge chunks you know um we'd have
to look for huge chunks of of funding
here so if we're taking out the so so in
terms of you're saying it's new school
what they provided from us for the
finance department is all the vacant
positions who taking out fire employe so
um it's been said that it's there's 1.4
million so that's not really to
minuscule if and we're trying to get to
777000 to Mr pin's Point your your
recommendations in terms of the council
um there was uh the a was agreed on but
there was a council member who who was
very clear about the um about the uh
me about the
insurance yeah and um and also you know
I will I'll speak up about the clerk's
office we only when we think about the
clerk's office we only think about the
clerk sitting here doing the work that
for the council however the I've been in
there and the clerk's office does a lot
of work and serves the public and I say
I would say very well I would just um
say that I had people who have
complimented um the people the offices
the folks office as well as other
offices where they have to interact with
public so I think that we have um public
facing offices that are doing a great
job that we don't lessen their ability
to do the job and M Mike who stated last
night that there additional duties that
had been assigned to her office so
um and and that which brings in more
Revenue thank you for telling me that so
but the revenue line has been
flat it's going to be bringing in more
because we're going to be putting things
online right and if we do more of that
we can eliminate some of the positions
and get more
efficient um thank you for everyone's
opinion so I I'm just that Mr Ferrari
and and and there provided to us today
what positions here that haven't been
filled in a year two years a couple of
years whatever are you recommending that
we cut all all these other positions to
get to the 770 I I'm just curious well
it would need to be off had I'm sorry it
would not need to be
right but um so minus minus police at
795 fire 384 Animal Control at
355 and I would like to keep all the
meos at 671 I mean what what positions
are I I'm not looking to cut any
position because I think the budget
presented to us again is a good budget
but what what are you recommending that
we cut at this point so maybe we can you
know think about a little something else
but you made it quite imperative that
you have no interest in think well okay
but I'm I'm asking you what positions
are you willing to cut to get to that
$770,000 but you're asking me to
entertain a conversation that you've had
no point in wanting to follow through so
excuse me I'm not done yet well I was
okay um Mr I want to
speak so what I what I was going to
suggest is that maybe if you look at the
positions that are here and then maybe
if if you can start to rate them
yourself like where there might be areas
that you're willing to move on and and therefore we can have a conversation
around that but I think M Mr Williams
poting I don't put words in your mouth
and how I understand what you're saying
is that you're not interested in cutting
or because I don't think anyone wants to cut anything right so if it's
like if you're not interested in
entertaining the conversation well then
we will be kind of like what M Patrick
is saying SP over that was only thing I
was trying to interject yeah well thank
you Mr
FY um so you know clerical AIDS ips3 I
mean I'm in favor of keeping all these
positions because obviously they
wouldn't be on here unless they were
need it to serve the public in an
efficient manner and and that's really
all I'm going to say right
now right and in in digesting this
entire conversation I honestly saw no
value in Contin this because I know your
position and it's clearly Laden out so
but I'm just wondering about your
position I mean you have a whole room of
individuals here who want to know if the
getting their positions cut
uh that was my only question is on the
finance committee I I don't have a vote
to get it out but I also want it to be
important to highlight we're not cutting
any positions that are currently filled
so the I understand that totally and
it's that type of language though that
the community latches on to and then
those phone calls that were buing are
taking on a new narrative the positions
that we were previously evaluating were
vacant correct like I started my
conversation with one year two year
three year you know that's how I started
the conversation but again but you said
individuals who might be losing their
jobs oh I didn't hear sorry I didn't
mean to say that at
all and to Mr Farley's point but our
spinning our whe suggestions made no we
got to keep those positions which is
fine I I understand that perspective but you know some cuts are okay other
cuts are not you know it's it's the
Dealer's Choice here so um I think
you're absolutely
correct right and that's why my stance
was then hearing where people's
positions are and how do we pass a
budget that we all can support and agree
on but I'd still like my question
answered about the structural
deficits
well I I know you keep using that term
but I don't um and you're saying like
years down the road and so we have to
pass a budget one year each year at a
time and so we're looking at passing
this budget and increasing Revenue it's
been said time and time again it's been
said at the police department it's been
set in cold enforcement um uh it's been
said in the clerk's office so part of
creating the budget is increasing
Revenue but we never talk about that so
in terms of you keep continually saying
that you're um believing that you're
offering in the per that our Revenue
will stay flat and they will have no
more even if it goes up a consistent you
if they go hand inand because costs are
going to go up even if the revenue goes
up you still have that Gap so it doesn't
go
away and we're talking about let's
getting rid of feas because our
residents uh have a burden and yes they
have a burden but you're just making it
worse in two or three years and that's
just a matter of
fact I believe the term you just used
that you said were saying let's get rid
of fees I don't I didn't hear that from
anyone I could just speak for myself I
didn't say that's good rid of fees I
think it's important that we're using
accurate language so it is accurate
you're looking to get rid of some of the
fees get rid of fees that's 50% if it's
1% it's you're looking to get rid of
fees that's an accurate
statement and that's very different than
getting rid of them same thing it's not
the same and all you're doing is putting
it down the road and making it worse
well no and I don't think that is just a
question of Sam I don't think it's
question of semantics I think one action
is saying that we are looking to or
council members are saying how do we not
increase fees and then there's a
conversation of how do we not increase
fees and getting rid of fees would would
suggest that there's fees that we're
trying to reduce and get rid of right
now and I don't think that that
conversation is or that framing is
accurate of for my understanding right
now regardless doesn't answer my
question about the deficit it doesn't
answer my
so so at this point in time are we
entertaining um getting them well miss
POS Miss Patrick's position has changed
so um she said the
moment but um are we entertaining like
looking at reducing the fees for
services and truly Mr mood she behave
for this discussion because I know
that's one of the items that he was
bringing forward um to get to that
number or
we that's really the question and we can
get this budget out
of can we get there
tonight I just wanted just so as Derek
said in the beginning excuse me
beginning of this conference the 2024 a
budget
for what it peace peace res Services is
4% that was in 2023 so just want to let
you know that right off
the
4% in the general fund Ro departments
you total everything out from the 2023
adopted budget to the um uh proposed
2024 budget looking at a 4%
decrease
but I can say to my comment if you're
truly looking for a response at some
point our investments and Technology
need to start reaping benefits for our
community and if we are saying and
hearing from uh our Public Services
saying that not yet we need more time at
some point that question is going to
need to be answered or met with what is
the value of our continued investments
in such
efforts okay but that still doesn't deal
with the structural deficits next year
we're going to have a payment for 500
next year
$500,000 we have to look at this if
we're looking to reduce the burden on
taxpayers which is what I've been
hearing then you have to look at the
impact beyond the 2024 budget because
the impact will be multiplied and it
will only be that much worse for
residents we have a $500,000 payment
coming for the axium which we agreed to
that's got to be put into the budget
it's not yet we have the contract coming
up with the police department that's a
minimum of x amount of dollars don't
want to do it publicly because but it's
substantial and
we if we were to go with half
fees 3 let's say 3.4 was it $1.7 million
deficit I'm sorry if we went with half
fees it would be a $1.7 million deficit
1.1.2 $500,000 at this point doesn't
really matter so 1.2 million that's
several million dollars that we're not
accounting for and we have to address if
we're really interested in making the
burden not hard on our residents and
that's why the structural deficit is
important so last year with us
um not increasing fees um to this way we
ended up you're saying that it's now 4%
less no Fe for service free for service
okay yes you that's the water and store
fees this is fees for services from the
various departments that didn't make
sense to me I'm like those
projections
yeah seems like the question is again
how can I closer to the demands of
sticking to the mayor's propos proposed
budget so I know the word no one wants
to hear is recess and I don't even know
if you would entertain one but I I do
not
know I just want an answer if I'm not
going to get one that's fine you can say
I don't have an answer but I would like
to know what the plan is for the
structural deficit yet to get an answer
and if the answers I don't have one or
whatever that's fine and we'll move on
and we'll recess but that's the fifth
time I've asked the question and I've
yet to get an answer and and I think
that and I think that you're um
projecting and not NE and not I don't
know if you're necessarily projecting
with um actual numbers we were down we
were sat at the same table last year and
we had a similar conversation about how
bad it was going to be and we're not the
place that you said we're going to be
and again we have to do a better job of
look and increasing our revenue and
that's on us so we said it last year I
the only reason we're we're doing okay
is because we used
49 million or whatever it was in har
this year we're using 6.6 are my numbers
horribly wrong from what I've said Mr
ferr I would say the manner in which you
delivered them
were and I can say the same about yours
but if if we're all I'm asking is if I'm
not going to get an answer just say I
won't get an answer and we'll reset yes
that's fine I'm okay with that maybe I can suggest that maybe it's not
the answer that you deem acceptable cuz
I the Council president has addressed
that no she hasn't with all due respect
she has not okay
so I believe she she did um maybe not to
your satisfactory and I can appreciate
that I just want to reiterate that there
has been a bit of a thought exchange
here and from what I heard is that the
council president has tried to address
what you're describing um as a built-in
deficit structural
deficit there's yet to be an answer as
how to how to close that
Gap well I guess the answer is not
satisfactory to you but again I I I
submit that you said similarly last year
um you're saying again this year but
you're not specifically saying where it
is I have been specific very specific
with my numbers you just have't listen
and Mr Ferrari has said my numbers are
pretty accurate so and I have this so I
take objection to that uh so you know
those that's those are my response to
your um to your and I understand that
you won't be at this table next year
when we do this again I appreciate your
presence here now um and we will and
have help the say have they heard I said
Heaven helped the city so if you want to
recess if if I'm not going to get an
answer that's fine we'll recess I would
say your narrative is on brand but can I
have a motion foress and now we need to
discuss a de well it's not discussing
the DAT you've called for a special
meeting special meeting bypasses the
committee you have a statutory
obligation to adopt the budget by
November
1st and don't have where's the big hand
on the clock a
little so what I would say is you got to
put a budget forward and vote on it
whether you want to use mine as the
Baseline line by line amendments or
whatever but you called for a special
meeting and think you have an obligation
to vote on a
budget um so my understanding from um Mr
P is that if we there's not that our
code does not speak to what happens if
we don't pass the budget on November 1st
um I know that we have to pass it by the
end of the year otherwise we don't have
a budget so you can just L some clarity
to that Mr
hold our code does not provide for a
there's no provision within our Charter
just within our Charter not the code
which says the time to pass the budget
is by November one the end of November
one the particular year um Arco does not
provide for or Charter there um does not
provide for the what if question if you
don't pass it on that particular day
there's no statutory provision um in
general Municipal law second class city
law um general city law uh that applies
to budget
FES
um generally um everything goes back to
the
Charter well it's been a special meeting
called for that bypasses the system so
what I'm suggesting is you use my budget
as a Baseline and then move to amend it
from the
floor and I'll make a motion
to accept the mayor's
budget you call the meeting to order I
was we hav really recess first it has to
pass out committee the budget no not if
we have a special meeting bypasses the
committee there's one
item or Whatever item is delineated in
the
notes so we don't have to leave I don't
believe I given a copy whatever given of
the council so whatever is in
[Music]
that yesterday I going to do
tonight oh so there's I thought the
agendas were passed out last night right
no there's another agenda today the
agenda the notice that sered on city
council elimates what you're going to
[Music]
do the session sent last week um you had
it receiv you received it by emailed it
received it by in person as well yes I
just did didn't bring M with
me I did receive so the special meeting
said that we were going to call for a
um special meeting for the finance
committee to pass the budget out of
finance and then um the then the meeting
we need to uh thank
you okay this reads as
follows uh Tuesday October 4th and
Wednesday uh November excuse me October
31st and Wednesday November 1st if
budget not passed on October 31st it
disconnect the city council meeting to
convene finance committee followed by
the special city council meeting that is
to pass the budget however we did not
pass the budget out of the finance
committee you don't have
to it's a question whether or not we
have to pass it out of the finance
committee the language in our code um
section
28-3 says special meetings may be called
any any time by any member of the
council 3 days notice specifying the
object of the meeting city clerk shall
cause the written notice thereof
specifying the object of the meeting to
be served upon each member personal to
be delivered at such special meeting no
business other than that named in the
notice of the meeting shall be transa
transacted except by unan
consent at the time fix in the notice of
special meeting the city council shall
convene the president shall take the
chair and the following shall be the
order of business roll call reading of
the notice of the meeting and proof of
service transaction of the business
specified in notice and
adjournment so we we have to follow a
special meeting and um we need a budget
to pass so we need a budget out of
finances what I'm
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understanding it goes to the notice I
agree with the mayor that if a special
meeting is being called for particular
item meeting of this a special meeting
of the city
council then it would bypass the
whatever is contained within the notice
would bypass the committee but goes to
the language in the notice
okay do you have to at least
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I'm
conv so
motion to recess motion second I second
all in favor I recess call order the
special meeting of the city council me
city council for November 1st
2023 to vote on the budget um I'd ask
the clerk to do a roll call
please Mr Williams
no the call for attendance
Mr Mr here Mr Toro here Mr here M
pres okay um special meeting is
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to the special meeting is to pass the
2024 operating budget and capital budget
for the city is
connected
so at this point in time the budget only
budget before us is the budget that the
mayor has put
forward
so I would ask for a roll call on the
item that's on the
table we need a motion a motion to bring
to the
table um I yes go ahead i' recommend
discussion first since you're going to
do a roll call though yes right is there
any discuss is there any further
discussion on this item
the time to make those last comments
before we call the
roll this Michael of all is Mr
Williams Mr Farley yeah Miss Patrick
yes Mr Toro yes Mr palamini
yes Miss pfield
no motion
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fails ask for a motion toour so move
second moveed by m Patrick second by Mr
Farley all those in
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favor oh sure
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I'll
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I'm telling you I was like oh please
don't sit down
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to how's your mom doing how's your mom
uh struggling but all things
consider thank you for coming toate of
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course
you
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Jack
what your
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name
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