is
[Applause]
[Music]
Sy
I'd like to call the ordance conected
city council committee meeting for
Monday December 18th 2023 and the first
committee is Public Safety Mr Willams
I'd like to call order to the Public
Safety Committee we have one item on the
agenda tonight and that is a
presentation for brink uh Jerome as a
first
responder very much uh good evening uh
city council uh mayor and happy holidays
to everybody um thank you for having us
tonight I'm going to hand out a uh take
one pass it around a handout um I just
want to introduce um members of the
company Brink that are here tonight with
us the the reason that we're before you
is that we'd like to enter into a
contract with Brink and they they're
bringing a platform of technology to our
disposal some which is tactical which we
would like to implement right away
others which is more strategic and we'd
like to implement that over the next
years year the um the Drone as a first
responder is a is a is a concept that um
we've looked at for a while and we'd
like to implement it a lot of the
reasons for this is that I've heard what
each and every one of you has said
specifically Mr mud and response times I
know are very important to you and
they're important to the city council in
addition to um having the ability to
deescalate situations uh in a better
capacity without having to go handson uh
and then providing officer safety which
is important to all of us so these are
some of the reasons why um we started
looking at this concept and I thought it
was important to bring um the the
experts here to speak to you have a
brief presentation for uh to for Don
Redmond who's a friend of mine he's a
retired captain from schul Vista Police
Department he'll do the presentation his
colleague uh David flowers is here also
um to answer any questions that you may
have so without any further I'll pass B
to take it over thank you very much I
guess I'll stand here thank you very
much for having us um as chiefer said
Don Rond retired 10 months ago I wasent
26 years at the J dist Police Department
which is in San Diego California down
Southern California um it came to Brink
really with the idea is Brink is a
public safety specific Drum company we
just build drums for Public Safety so
came here to build out a solution um
specifically called drum as a first
responder and I'm going to give you a
presentation on that so what as a first
responder is for those of you don't know
JIS the police department is the first
in the world to start launching drones
in October 2018 from the rooftop of
their Police Department so in October of
2018 we launched our first drone off the
rooftop of the police department to
respond to emergencies not just to to
patrol or anything only for calls for
service for emergencies um over the next
5 years the programs been in in
existence now for 5 years uh we expanded
the program to four launch locations in
Citywide coverage um about 30 times a day flying um to calls for
service and I'll give you some um some
examples of that the whole whole idea
was we wanted to reimagine how we
respond to poer service we heard the
national message that then police
departments need to do different things
differently and so this was one of the
steps that we took um just just so um
you know is the first but right now
there's probably
40 um police departments within the the
country that have either began their dfr
progr or in the early stages of it but I
would say only about eight 8 to 10 um
departments have what is really the kind
of the the model that chista has so with
that um just understanding why dfr was
important um police uh helicopter have
been around for for many many years um
and they're very beneficial for for
police departments we um I don't think
there's a police chief in the nation who if we had the opportunity to have a
police helicopter they would say sure we
would love to have them because of the
idea that it gives you firsthand
experience has a a trained Observer
who's relaying information back to to
ground units they're they're able to do
this um safely but what is the challenge
with the police helicopter it's cost
it's huge it's interesting um they just
did an audit from for Los Angeles Police
Department I thought I'd throw this in
here that they they said $3,000 an hour
for their police helicopter program it's
very expensive um but can we use do
something differently and this is where
we we come in with utilizing
so with drones um probably I I would the
dawn Redmond estimate I would say
probably 85 to 90% of police agencies in
the country have a drone program of some
sort um and but the tripical typical use
is um they put a drone in a police car
in the trunk of a car um an officer is is certified to fly the ground call
for service comes out maybe it's a
burglary alarm at 2:00 in the morning at
a business they get there this the
business is secured um but they want to
launch the Drone to check the rooftop to
make sure that the person didn't make
entry in in into the rooftop or maybe it
was a foot pursuit now there's a
perimeter set up can we launch the Drone
for for safely to do that also indoor
operations now we're able to fly a drone
indoors and and communicate with people
indoors for a safer um resolution that's
the challenges with that though the
police officer is flying the Drone so it
really takes that officer off the
streets because they're they're not
flying to drones so this is um a case
stud this is kind of what TR list is
doing hopefully
it
everybody wants deescalation it's not
just a buzzword anymore it's become a
part of our everyday vocabulary
everybody wants it to be safer everybody
wants everybody to survive and Live
Another Day our drone as a first
responder program is in my opinion the
number one tool for deescalation that we
have so for our party1 calls for service
from the moment we receive the 911 call
to the moment the Drone is overhead is
about 2 and A2 minutes as the officers
are responding to this call the drone's
already been overhead for about 3
minutes and the to operator has been
relaying information to the responding
officers in real time having a tool that
gives us the ability to get to the scene
as quickly as possible is critical
because when you are able to provide
your officers with realtime information
they can make better informed decisions
there's no other source of information
you can give me that would be better
than a live video feed on what you're
about to walk into so in terms of
deescalation it gives us a couple of
extra moments to look at a situation and
find out are they armed are they not
armed do they need our help do they not
and that's invaluable when that officer
makes their final turn onto that call
for service they have every bit of
information that they need to be
successful and resolve that situation in
a calm and safe matter the last thing we
want to have to do is use any level of
Force if we can deescalate and we can
use these drones to give our officers
better information it just makes no
sense not to use
it so um so CH Vista one of the first
things that we did at CH Vista and this
what we're nimi at at Brink is doing a a
transparency portal so if you go on the
tra website um the police department
website there's a dashboard that's
updated every single day of the flights
um that they I just uploaded this a
couple of days ago they at um they're
getting close to 18,000 flights U with
their dfr program there's nobody in the
world that flies Dr going to this and
the interesting thing about this the
this um the data that we're getting that
we found is that almost 25% of the time
when we launch the Drone we don't have
to send ground units we have um the
Drone is able to clear those calls for
service so unfortunately for Chula Vista
just give you an example we have um
we're authorized 281 officers we can't
very difficult to get past 250 so we're
down 30 officers red um so using dfr as
a force multiplier to clear out calls
for service and I'll give you an example
of this is um we had a 7-Eleven clerk
called in said hey um I've got two it
calls 911 says I've got two customers
fist fting in a parking lot you send officers and unfortunately we
didn't have any officers available the
Drone launch gets overhead within a
couple of minutes the Drone pilot says
he looks he doesn't see anything he has
the the clerk's phone number via CAD Wes
up the phone calls and says J Police
Department I'm an asent artisty I'm a
drone pilot overhead um where's the
fight and he relays the information that
the the clerk comes out with cell phone
looks waves to the Drone and he goes oh
they just left he goes okay do you need
our assistance he's like no thank you
very much you know I appreciate you
getting here so quickly and wasted the
Drone and off we went so within a couple
minutes we had that that that customer
service that we were able to get there
as opposed to maybe an hour later we
would have driven by and not given them
the service that they want um you know
road hazards traffic um issues we're
able to get the Drone out there
immediately to evaluate our priorities
on there and then to still provide that
customer service with with our drone
program and the important thing is to
note that through the through the data
we we've seen that the Drone gets there
in half the time than the patrol
officers um there the ground officers
the officers um from the moment that we
hit um launch it takes about 97 seconds
for it to be on scene um which is is
very quick um and in that um the
fortunate thing is and this is a case
study I don't know if you if you want to
watch this it's about um 3 minutes long
it's a a domestic violence there be some
interest in seeing it yes okay let me
cck on it make sure it
works see if it
works
so this was just a couple of months
after we implemented our drone program
and and what you'll see a common them
through some of these case studies is we
just
didn't I want to report domestic
violence and are you involved or are you
witnessing this no okay what what
exactly is
happening um a male in a female and
wanted the motorcycle and they just I
don't know they're just going to hit
other with a car or something I don't
know you said trying to hit each other
with a car yeah get with the motorcycle
just
s white
sedan so
we1
on the white vehicle
continuing so little backstory U
boyfriend girlfriend girlfriend's in the
car the boyfriend's on a stolen
motorcycle she's upset he's
Ryle she actually chases him through the
city this point they go
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around s is pursuing
motorcycle
break right uh we need a un looks like
the sedan is trying to Ram the motorcycl
to pull in behind the
business conf the
alley in alley Street in a 415 31 can
you start for the
zo be white Hyundai alantra
four like
call so we didn't have no idea they had
left
Alleyway South alley 54 still
415
1
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mcycle he is away from the
bike
she warns him not to get on the
motorcycle he doesn't listen
motorcyclist is back just R so
we arrested them um we arrested both of
them for um her for the domestic
violence him for the stolen motorcycle
what was interesting is the district
attorney said that had he not had that
drone video he would never have issued
this case and when he did Issue the case
both both of them played guilty didn't
go to trial because they had the video
it's hard for them to argue otherwise
our district attorney loves having e Dr
videos it really assist stem and
prosecution other thing um for CH Vista
understanding that in 2018 is where we
started um we um try our our mandate at
CH is to try to get you our Priority One
responses within six minutes and our
priority two within 12 minutes we
weren't making it but over the years
that we've implemented dfr we've um we
dropped our response times we've
improved them quite a bit um and really
for the first time we've been able to
meet our response times I haven't I
haven't seen what 2023 is out yet uh
this is for the last time so very very
important on response times this one's a
real short one another minute or so I
want to be very respectful of your time
um so this is an interesting call
there's no there's no audio on this but
it's a m only one call that comes into
our Bayside I one call says hey there's
a red vehicle parked in our parking lot
in this parking lot lot and there's
three subjects in there and are passing
around a handgun inside this this
vehicle this parking lot there's one way
in one way out so the officers are able
to watch this video on their in their
police cars either via their NPCs or
their cell phones so they don't make
entry they let the Drone do its thing
fortunately and in this day it's only
one red vehicle in the parking lot so
he's able to to zoom in he he Zooms in
on the license plate gets the license
plate and when he zooms out this is what
he sees
that's kind of an uh oh Factor right and
now you can imagine your police police
department your police officers rolling
through the parking lot and seeing this
we can imagine what a national tragedy
would happen right under these types
this type of a situation but fortunately
we had our drone overhead the officers
um could see what is happening in real
time and so it was great now instead of
the two officers maybe just driving
through this parking lot and just kind
of stumbling upon this vehic vehicle and
this this female with the handgun they
come in with a game plan they come in in
force they know who's who's going to be
the primary officer who's going to be
the secondary officer who's going to
have best people where's the canine
going to be who's going to block the
exits they know ahead of time what's
going to happen and they take control of
the situation to try and um resolve it
peacefully so I always say it's a it's a
great hot stop if you see all the hands
coming out at the same time so it's you
know you know they're they're following
directions there's no doubt
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there so they take everybody out
peacefully they search the vehicle and
what do they find they find this
handgun which is actually an Soft pistol
so it's not a real gun she's 17 if you
can imagine your officers getting into
an an officer involves shooting on this
situation how tragic that would be any
shooting is a tragedy right but under
this that way this was this was
addressed peacefully so um this is the
last one if you want to see this one you
know it's it's up to you um this this is
another one where this this subject it
was a 91 qu he's waving around a handgun
and it happens to be a lighter um if you
want me to stop shirt
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okay
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the 911 call he overhead with a
drum one and 12
minutes
seconds the subject sitting
there so he's got this gun in his hand
right and we actually have multiple
calls what's also interesting is since
the officers can see this also they see
he's sitting on the bench and facing
southbound so the offic know how to
approach from the south so they have
actually approached from behind him and
they're actually parted in a in the
business right behind him he doesn't
know that they're there but they're
watching this right they don't want to engage with him they
don't want to have any have to use any
force or anything he's not it's not an
active shooter he's not threatening
anybody even though we're getting
multiple calls on this so they're just
watching
this you see him actually grab it and he
kind of puts his hands up and says you
know don't want any any any trouble here
so when you see the true value of dfr
and drone drone as the first responder
here is what does he do here he just lit
his cigarette with that gun right so now
we're fairly confident that this this
gun is a lighter and not a something
else the officers make their approach
there's no no guns drawn no forces used
they take him into custody he had some
on him and he he was arrested so pretty straightforward on that so where
we're looking for applications is um at
Brink we really want to bring drums
first responder to to connected to
really on a number of different things
so when I say we we launch and I I talk
in the Wii at youis we launch for all
calls for service what we feel that the
drums is is of value to the First
Responders so you saw the domestic
violence but we get those suspicious
persons you know the person you get the
91 call hey somebody's acting crazy on
the corner there he's yelling at at cars
driving by and we know what could happen
the officers arrive they contact him
maybe it escalates with the Drone we get
overhead we see no crime is occurring
he's not a danger to himself or others
we don't have to even make contact right
so it's not illegal to yell at cars
those type of things so when you talk
about deescalation what's the best
deescalation tool when officers don't
even need to contact the person traffic
collisions we'll get overhead let our
fire department also see the video when
they're responding if you're trapped in
a vehicle that's and the vehicle's
leaking fuel you want the fire
department to know that it's leaking
Fuel and to hurry up and get there and
have a game plan on there house fires
we'll turn on the thermal camera um so
the fire department can see where the
hot spot is if your house is on fire you
want the fire department to know
immediately where they need to put the
water on put
your house out the fire out search and
rescue missing kids um anybody who's you
know that that type of thing will will
do that also medical delivery we're um
our payload that we're developing will
be able to deliver aeds um Naran EpiPen
you know maybe a flotation device I
don't know how many Swift water rescues
you do here in the in the in the area be able to to deliver a Halo on that
where I really want to finish off is
when we talk about dfr is it's not just
for those high high dangerous situations
this was an example of we get a 911 call
of um the middle of the day of some kids
gang members is what the call came out
um and they were graffiting this
Alleyway so what they were doing is they
were putting their these stickers all
down this Alleyway and they were
graffiting them they were putting their
gang monitors on there drone gets
launched common thing here we didn't
have any ground units available the
Drone P gets overhead he actually sees
them doing it um they're not stopping so
he actually lowers the Drone down to
about 100 feet so these kids can see the
Drone that there's actually they're
being watched the kids see the Drone
they give a hand signal that they're
number one right you know and and they
continue doing what they're doing um and
then they kind of realize that it's
probably the police strugle and they all
start fting well kids being kids what do
they do they run together and so the
Drone follows them they actually get
tired they sat down right here and they
waited for the police department to show
up and arrest them so where we show the
value is is we recognize that graffiti
in the community is a high priority
right graffiti and vandalism hity is
very difficult for law enforcement with
all the other um culer service that they
had have have to handle this was a
perfect example of why dfr was very
beneficial at at that moment and so with
our solution we could build out a
transparency um dashboard for your
community one of the biggest things I'll
leave you with is this is the the flight
Telemetry um in my three years of
managing our dfr program um I had two
complaints um both of them were similar
a woman called me and she said hey why
was your drone over my backyard watching
me yesterday I said well I don't know
where you live um can you log on to Tris
do you have a computer she said yes I
said log on to julus website she does
I'm I'm kind of going through click here and I said you know this
wasn't that one I said what time she
said 2:00 and I said well at 1:50 we
were in your area because it was a Solen
vehicle the person bailed out and we
were looking for this person in
backyards who was running she's like oh
is that why the police officers were in
my neighborhood I'm like yeah and she
could see why we were there her
temperature immediately went down she
understood why we were there and it
changed her whole perception of why we
were doing so with that um I'm happy to
answer any questions that you might have
um about the program thank you so much
for that um presentation any questions
or comments from Council
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Members M yeah so this is really for the
CH so how would this impact response
time for for offices
locally well we're looking to implement
it um you know once it's up and running
we're we're we're going to have to have
internal ation about what calls we're
going to be sending it to but um when
fully deployed I think it's going to
increase our response time
significantly um as Don mentioned we're
going to be able to get technology above
a situation start collecting video
evidence right away it's going to help
with solving crimes Prosecuting crimes
holding people accountable um and and
we're going to consider the Drone being
there um a response time because because
we are responding it even though
remotely we can then better communicate
with the officers on the scene you know
whether they get there sooner or whether
they have to go at all so you know I see
you know it's not going to be on day one
we improve our response but I see very
quick a very once deploy very rapidly
our response times improving I don't
think it's going to take us five years
to see the Improvement that true Lista
did I think they did the hard work for
us
chair thank you may uh I have a few
questions so uh out of the 40 uh
Countrywide um weather is is our
Northeast weather a deterrent in using
these drones efficiently so the drones
can be launched in in inclement weather
the challenge right now is with the FAA
because um you have to have visual
Observer um meaning you have to be able
to see the airspace a mile around the
Drone so if you have a thick Cloud layer
that you don't have clear unobstructed
views it it it limits your your flight
time so whether is it really a concern
for us right now do you anticipate as an
industry ho for the FAA to um really in
the next 12 to 18 months figure out a
clear path that we can no longer use
visual observers on that and we would
work with the police department to
implement that ni uh my second question
would be um I think you answered it um
whether it detour crime once people know
that we're using that obviously we saw
that with the with the taggers there if
I could use one just one little um story
uh U Santa Monica minut our drum program
and there's some graffi on an Alleyway
and they took a picture and it said um
look up the police department has drones
right you know it was like the word get
once the word gets out it
it's um this might go for chief so uh
the Drone gets released um obviously the
dispatcher the Drone sees there's
nothing going on but still us here um in
the neighborhood are concerned would you
find follow up um anyway absolutely I
mean I I I would say that it's there's a
twofold response is that we would be
there collecting that evidence we would
properly communicate with the
complaintant person calling whether the
Drone response is sufficient speaking us
over the phone or whether they would
still want to see an officer setting
that expectation it might be a lot
before we get there and my last question
so um if we know of um areas um where
there's been uh gunfire and things would
we fly drones uh at random kind of in
that area like U maybe
nighttime establishments or things where
there's been previous problems or would
we wait for a 911 call before we
dispatch
a well for for right now my thought
would be would be only to respond to
calls for service potentially we would
look at Trends so such as if we saw a
spring of uh car laries or burglaries
area we may
proactively uh look at a certain time
frame that's that's that's that's
reflective of the information the data
that we have but we would not we don't
have any ples to proactively control I
do believe some neighborhood there's
subties that are doing that yeah there's
one agency Beverly Hills Police
Department they're patrolling with their
drones um 7 days a week 10 hours a day
and I asked them directly and they said
I I know their Lieutenant he says Don
our community is more worried about
their money than their private
and that's bever Hills so it's a little
different right so um but to my
knowledge every other agency um this is
something that we would work with with Chief glipper and you know
developing um um policies as to why you
know when you would utilize the it would
be something that the community would
have to ask for before we do that thank
you Mr caner to C um I just am wondering
um timeline wise I see that the contract
the at least the estimate that we're um
seeing tonight expires I think on the
31st of December um that that quote um
so if approved um what's the timeline in
terms of training in terms of getting up
and actually using um the drones the way
you want to do that so so year one of
the contract is for us to procure the
Tactical drones those are ones that we
would once we receive them we would
start using them immediately and those
are for for emergency situations indoor
use and then the timeline on the the dfr
we would PR plan to use 2024 to start
building up the program but we don't
expect to actually have that dfr until
2025 late 2024 with with the potential
to get it early in 24 but um we're
really talking about a re a reality
deployment of early 2025 possibly end of
24 thank
you uh going with the mayor's Trend I
had a few questions myself um how many
instance kind of speaking towards the
capabilities of the Drone uh can the
Drone respond to before having to return
back to space that's a good question so
um our drone um solution we're looking
at a 45 minute to 60 Minute um air time
on that um I I'm speaking from
experience at Jula Vista uh we had about
a 30 minute flight time um for Jula
Vista typic Al a um when the Drone gets
overhead a incident will stabilize be
found in about 15 20 minutes to figure
out what what's happening so most of the
time the Drone was able to handle a
situation and return back to base where
we want the longer flight time is
because if it's handling one incident
and another incident happens it wants to
be able to we want to fly it over to
there without having to to land it so um
we're we're estimating 45 to a 60 Minute
flight time and then I'll follow up I
see the inv or the improved response
times does that reflect mastering of The
Craft or does that reflect having
additional drones additional so uh 2020
I 2019 I added a second launch location
um 20 end of 2020 to 2021 I I added two
more launch locations for four launch
locations Citywide so it um expanded for
Citywide coverage and that's why it
impacted because this is all of the
response times for the for the average
for the
Department yes um so Chief how many
drones do we plant to purchase two just
two okay and um the person that would
the people individuals that be um doing
these would they be civilians or would
these only be sworn officers we're
looking these civilians as the as The
Operators of them for the Tactical ones
they would be officers for the for the
dfr working at civilians but that that
decision hasn't been made yet but that's where
we're and um so you've outlined a little
bit but can you kind of just go the
timeline of this and also
cost the
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U
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the the uh contract that we're going to
be asking the council to allow us to
enter into is a six-year
contract and year one we have funding
through our FEMA
Grant and that will cover cover um the
first year one payment with the
exception of I think
$10,000 that we have within our budget
to cover that year two is when we will have the two dfr drone sites up
and running and that is the $880,000
p and then year three four five and six
it goes up to $130,000 a year and within
this six years every other year um Brank
is going to uh provide us with the
updated equipment on each level of our
service whether it's the Tactical drones
or the dfr
drones and they and they're also
providing us with a a warranty where if
anything happens to that mechanically or
accidental damage that they are replaced
or repair yes it's it's an allinclusive
so there's no nickel Diamond if you need
more batteries more props an operator
does something to it it drops it in a
pool or something we you get you get
another one there's no questions asked
on that so
set so so the first year is 49,000 or
50,000 50,000 and then that's that's
what Fe will pay and then the rest 0,000
comes come back to the city
yes any other question the
mayor just a call to C president
warfield's question on response
times I believe it's going to improve
response times and also the quality of
response we had a lot of priority three
calls
classify noise complaints like fireworks
complaints we'll get noise complaints
that will come in and oh it's over in
the next block they're playing the music
too loud or they're setting Fireworks
off down at the corner or a block over
and so the dispat SC doesn't have an
exact location to send a police officer
to and the reality is I've seen
sometimes they get backed up 15 calls I
see as many as 30 calls backed up in the
queue with this it would allow us
to
deploy device validate the initial call
and identify where the location is
sometimes with loud music we might be
able to avoid sending a car to the scene
you could look up a phone number
identify the residents just make the
call uh to them saying you've got a
complaint you got to turn your music now
uh the same thing with
fireworks we all know we get the
complaints on those when they go off you
know people are smart enough they set
them off and then they run so the
fireworks are there and the kids say
it's kids a lot of times now it's adults
they have moved down the block into
somebody else's back backyard or
whatever and they set them off again so
it becomes more of a convoluted fact
pattern for the police to try and track
down who is doing it and this Theory
will allow us quicker response the
ability to document what is happening
and then hopefully create a level of
deterrence so that we're not dealing
with some of these uh again priority
three calls now which affect the quality
of life and affect uh our overall
Staffing to appropriately respond to
more serious
calls and to the mayor's point I think
what's happened and I have conversations
with Mr Cen part of the issues with
noise complaints is getting someone to
put forth the complaint or to go on
record U to to initiate that can you
speak to this this evidence being
permissible in court or has it been
applied in the framework that the may
have recommended with specifically with
noise complaint respons um noise
complaints so typically what we would do
is we would launch for it it's usually a
party complaint allow we would get the
drum overhead and then evaluate as to
the how large it is um to the mayor's
point we have like identified what
residents and pilot just please turn the
music off or we're going to have to send
units and it's it's interesting a lot of
half the time Polie they'll say please
send officers this part's gotten way out
of hand typ type of thing so we would
know even from that aspect of it to send
more officers to to Really handle it but
then we're like oh okay yeah not a
problem we'll turn it down thank you
very much was called and not
embarrassing us type of thing um as for
the other question all of the the videos
are uploaded and stored in digital
evidence um and so any case that gets
issued to the case that's part of the
case where the diser attorney would
review it as like your body War camera
or
something any other questions Mr yeah
you you mentioned that this these drone
can be used in door U would we need a
special legislation to allow that zo me
that to allow these drones or indor
so anytime um a drone is used indoors it
would have the police department would
have to have the legal authority to be
inside there so if an officer was not
legally so um typically where you're
seeing is is like a um a tactical
situation a barricaded subject or
something um I can't speak for the chief
but I know at our agency we would get a
search warrant um and then we would have
that warrant or under certain
circumstances we can send the Drone in
but you couldn't just send the Drone in
if the police department had no right to
be
there
points out most times you would have to
get warrant or permission there would be
exent circumstances where it's uh
somebody's life is in immediate danger
where access could
be gained and again most of those are
going to be highrisk situations so
you're not going to put a police officer
in there and put the device in with the
intent of creating an atmosphere that's
going to have to stabilize it as opposed
to again something that might escalate
it or require the use of some level of
physical
Force M Mr oh Mr yeah so thank you for
this demonstration as I'm looking at
this um you know I can't help but think
back of things that have happened in the
community you know such as like you know
kids going missing things like that
where this would be you know I'm sure
that this would have been a huge help to
our First Responders um um and and so I think the applications for this even
are far beyond what you probably even
were able to demonstrate um or with the
brief presentation
um with that said we're all always going
to have to balance the tensions of
safety and privacy and so I I I guess my
question would be I have a few questions
but the first one would be I'm
like what type of uh uh for lack of
better term um review process around um
Effectiveness or Community impact or
like um you know I guess with new
technology we have to start asking new
questions so I was wondering like what
are like some of those things that we
probably looking to implement from our
procedural standpoint to ensure that um
this is you know giving the best benefit
to the community and not adversely
affecting a up we did yeah yeah sure um privacy absolutely uh we met
with the ACLU and we started our program
actually J Stanley who's um with the AC
I had dinner with him a month ago in in
Seattle talking about VF and everything
um so the idea of um very respectful
privacy obviously you know we don't want
those drones so um launching the Drone
there's two trains of thoughts you know
um do we record all the time or do you
only record under certain circumstances
for me personally I say we record all
the time because I want that review if
there is a complaint I want to make sure
that it's being utilized properly if I
don't have that video on so how we do
that is we launch the Drone um typically
you launch the Drone you know the where
the location is you're already zooming
in you're focused on that area that
you're attending to once you handle that
situation and we return to home the
Drone video the camera automatically
goes horizontal so when it's returning
it's not inadvertently follow looking at
the ground looking at people's backyards
it's just looking straight ahead into
the sky it's also safety issue that the
other hazards that are out there um
having that public transparency
dashboard is also a situation that if a
um a Community member was concerned
about the Drone being used wrong you
know against what the community wishes
they can go on the website and see why
the Drone was launched what was the call
for service and the Telemetry of that
drone at that point or we've been
working into um having the the the
camera where you could see where the
camera was pointed wallet was flying so
you have that even additional we don't
want to upload videos because then it's
I feel like we could potentially violate
people's privacy we actually look the
videos go up there so we don't want to
do that I don't know if that answer your
question and on our end we've already
started uh attending neighborhood
association meetings asking the
community their thoughts on it we've
also started that uh conversation with
the New York civil Li Li to assist us
with creating our policy um so that
meets their standards and their approve
of it um so that we want we want we look
at them as the threshold of of
acceptance and if it's okay with them we
feel it should be uh acceptable to the
community and we want to be open and
transparent with the process that where
we get to on that I guess
uh followup question would be to that
same point but you know will we you know
maybe consider I know we have our police
Community review board um but mainly um
I don't know if there if there's even a
subcommittee or something I just think
that when we're talking about uh
technology this great which I'm really
you know quite honestly I'm suppor of
this um but I really want to make sure
that we're uh really intentional around
what a review process could look like so
you know maybe a subcommittee of the
police uh review board or maybe even a
another committee made up of people um
in the community with law enforcement
because we so much working together you
know kind of hiding in that direction
anyway uh to kind of just review uh you
know the effectiveness and you know
just good things and maybe some of the
negative things um that have going on so
I just don't know if you would be open
to something like that Chief I would be
you know the U the review of the video
would have to be non evidentiary but
certainly um I seen reason why that
would be a
problem any other questions come just um
I think to that point also that um I
think I saw in the materials that um
part of the contract is also um bring
assisting Us in terms of um helping to
educate and involve the community and um
help the community understand um the the
practice I just have one other small
question which is have you spoken at all
with our um da to you know get a sense
of the extent to which um we'd be able
to use I mean obviously we can use it
but I mean is there um what's the word
I'm looking for like acceptance
or um is is our court system would they
be likely to to want to be able to use
this I saw obviously looked like it was
used successfully in many times but I
can't I can't speak for for your
jurisdiction I know in in California
it's it's digital evidence it's just
like body warn camera it's it's
submitted that the district use that
just like any other digital gotcha okay
thank you any other questions or
comments just generic comments chair
people have to remember talk about one
item here but this is to integrate it
within the other sensors that we have
deployed whether it's body working
cameras in car video uh Optical sensors
on like post uh other devices
so looked at the law enforcement
component there's other aspects of just
managing and delivering public services
that uh as we look at things are going
to become apparent and we're going to be
able to get better value for the
residents in terms of the overall
delivery of
services well actually that's kind of my
question I wanted to know how this
interacts with you know we have axon
with body cameras and all that goes with
it in Kardash we're talking about Patrol
finder so I was just wondering how this
all intersects and works together um
because they come they seem like they're
different platforms they come from
different organizations and agenes so
how do we how do we here in conect have
this all working together that's a good
question and we thought about that I
don't really have a specific answer to
give you but I could see a day where they all they are they all work
together um where potentially um you
there's there's
uh things that are on patrol finder we
want to follow up on and instead of
having an officer do that we have a
drone do it let's say that there was a a
burglary at 3:00 in the morning at your
home and and you ask for extra attention
so we we put that drone out there with
the Drone operator saying okay there's
six houses I said we're going to give
extra attention to so we're going to
send them out their proac give extra
attention to that's just kind of what I
see where we could go with this um you
know I think the the possibilities are
endless as far as where they interact
with ACC on we would we still have the
evidence.com platform for cloud-based
storage so any evidence that we would
collect through these would be put into
that to store our evidence um and then
anything that um was not evidentiary
retaining for a certain period 30 or 90
days be deleted thank you Mr yeah just a
question um have you experienc any
vandalism
using these drones using drones um it's
funny um indoor yes we've um we've known
we've had a couple of our indoor drones
um in one was in Las Vegas um it was a
arrest warrant to go arrest somebody and
they shot the Drone in in their in the
residence to my knowledge there's only
been one documented incident of a drone
actually being shot out of the sky which
was in Florida um and that person was
prosecuted for federal crimes CU
shooting aircraft on it um at for Vista
would it never has happened we had
people we had somebody who kept trying
to throw oranges at it um um but they couldn't couldn't reach to it so um
but if somebody shoots a drone out of
the sky um that's that's something law
enforcement we want to know if they're
willing to fire a weapon the air that's
something that we it's definitely we'
love to
investigate Mr so uh this question goes
back to like some of the training like
so what is kind of the training to I
know you said that um for the
non-tactical drones we're talking about
using civilians um so like what could
you give us an idea of what like that
training program looks like and is
something that you maybe be looking to
partner with like
our maybe local uh community colleges is
it is it different from because I know
that there's some drone drone training
programs that are existing so I guess
the more clear way to ask that question
is tell us a little bit what the
training looks like and is this
something for at least the non-tactical
drones is this something that you know
the existing drone uh training would
suffice I give my answer and then I'll
turn it over to Don for what the
training looks like but I I can I can
definitely see us wanting to partner
withy Community College or any college
that offers a criminal justice program
and an aviation program because what
we're seeing is a lot of students that want to be working in the criminal
justice field but they don't want to be
police officers they want to be analysts
or something else behind the scenes and
this could be a perfect Avenue for that
is to get that training criminal justice
but then also Lear learn fly a drone
part of that solution as a civilian as
far as the training goes there's a lot
to learn and I can tell you what that is
yeah and um one of our launch locations
with our community college and they have
a drone class and every semester they
come through our department and they sit
along with the Drone Pilots to learn
about the the drum technology so that
thing as for the training um it the
training is is really on how to launch
the Drone via the computer and some
different information as to like you
know how to how to handle the Drone
because it's a different way it's
basically a keyboard you're flying it
via keyboard and a mouse on that and
then how to how to um the the base
station how to maintain the base station
all of the training is included we would
provide all the training um you know for
safe use for the job like what have the
time like from start to finish you know
I anticipate about a week to get
somebody truly where we would be sitting
with somebody to to findly they'll pick
it up the first day it's it's not that
difficult you know you just if any of
these officers are Gamers where they use
the keyboard to play video games it's
really the same thing they're just
playing a real drone from from a
distance so um but the the things is to
understand is to get them comfortable in
flying the drones and turning the gimbal
cam it's hard if you're it's easy if
you're just looking at something and
it's not moving but if it's a vehicle
driving it just takes a little bit of
time to really get comfortable with
it thank you yes so Chief based on so
let me for both of you based on on the
population is that how you determine the
number of drones because two do we have
a drones right now and we have one we
have we have drones that we deploy out
of Dr okay so so two based on our
population is in your mind sufficient
and this two will be through the life of
this grant there won't be any increase
in the number that we get over the six
years uh for the contract is just two um
I actually thought three but then when
Don came here he felt that with our line
of sight and and the size of our
jurisdiction we could we could make it
make do with too yeah and where we would
really we I don't know if we we said
this at the beginning but we want to be
partners with SKC it isn't for us to to
look at SKC as a customer we want to be
true Partners to build their program out
to be a ro robust which helps us to go
to market with this right so where we
would look at it and this is what I did
at CH Vista is I started with one launch
location figured out where would be a
second good La launch location get data
to show the value like okay where are my
calls for service where's the heat map
could a third fourth fifth location
really benefit the community and that's
how we developed it so where we would
work with SK is to to show the return
and value on this and you may get to a
point where like we we we like having
two but we feel like a third one would
be even better because those two are
utilized so often we could use a third
one th those are some things that we
would we call it a crawl walk run right
let's let's start show the value of it
and then you you as a Community say or
not you need additional launch
locations and then then I think in kind
with that comment and I appreciate your
training or your um uh presentation for
identifying it everybody imagine would
prefer a helicopter however there are
Financial limitations to that similar to
our budget uh as a whole and I don't
think it's a coincidence that we're
going to have a budget conversation
thereafter uh unfortunately that still
going on um but uh with respect to this
I truly want to commend you uh chief uh
in kind to similar Chief Marino's U
intentions with trying to look at the
limitations of our current Staffing and
how do we apply technology in a way
where IT addresses uh where our city is
and definitely response times as you red
to Mr M comments are an issue then how
do we respond to those uh unique
circumstances specifically around our R
complaints so that we aren't just
telling the community for prioritizing
calls but looking at putting in place
actual U measures to to help lower that that threshold of extended response
times so I don't know if you reached out
and looked for this resource with that
thinking in mind but regardless I
definitely wanted to say thank you and
I'm looking forward to where this
conversation goes um with that being
said Miss Patrick highlighted that uh
deadline of December 31st I know from
myself I thought this was a presentation
so are we have a you need an answer from
the council and then miss P respond to
yeah uh so as as you call if I could um
this was going the chief was going to
bring this up two weeks ago and at that
time he also provided us with the all
the information so and during that
discuss the chief asked to remove it
from the agenda so we could have um
someone here from CH Vista but we also
have that two weeks to review all the
information so I'm assuming everyone did
that so at this point in time you are
asking for us to to uh take action on
this in order to get the contract signed
in time is that correct that's correct
okay so I'm happy to move that that um
I'm happy to move
the apologize just one quick comment and
follow to Mr Farley
in careers and job opportunities with
this you New York State Governor hok who
put money in the old griffus Air Force
Base outside of Rome where that is
becoming a Statewide and I should say
nationally internationally recognized
Center of Excellence for drone
technology and so
we're doing a
small project here that
will in theory complement some of the
development that's happening there but
and we're looking the Staffing one drone
but these are really career
opportunities that are emerging in like
a field that people never thought of
before and so yes we're taking some of
the baby steps here but uh you know just
down the road there's a center of
excellence in uh we have to look at our
community college other educational
opportunities and even kids in high
school to make them aware of these
scenarios and possibilities for
opportunities as they become
adults thank you Mr Mayor so there are
any further questions or comments uh
there's motion on the floor I second all
those in
favor thank you thank you thank you very
much any other it follow Public Safety
hearing on have motion to so move
[Music]
second thank you I'd like to call the
finance committee to order the first
item is ly firefighter Foundation Grant
Chief
Marino
everybody we can't do
that um so in
2012 uh
Governor excuse me passed in the law
that every fire department that has
elevation in their jurisdiction would
provide their members a descending
device of some sort either a device or
ropes whatever they s that and they
would uh give them give their members a
training to operate what
2014 we purchased
43 uh what was called dat it was a day
descending
device top top of the line back then uh
you could do a lot of a lot of nice
things uh with your firefighters with
civilians getting people out of
heightened
areas that D system that we own now is
approaching 10 years old still works um
but it's it's kind of out of favor in
the fire service now for a few reasons
it's buy uh maintenance is expensive and
whatnot so we want to move to a more
convenient more efficient a more
practical device and we're looking at
something called a a a petzel I want to
say pretzel a petel it's a a fraction of
the size and it it uh very efficient and
it does what we need to
do so uh we had some money from our
radio FEMA cran that we're going to use
to purchase devices to um to replace the
DAT right now the dat we have one per
position not one per person one per
position on our rigs so with this extra
money we're going to purchase devices to
replace that in the meantime we applied
to the Larry
foundation and we were awarded a grant
for
25,000 and whatever $245 52 and that
amount would allow us to purchase enough
devices so each member of the department
would receive one instead of one per
position that be one
p which to me is very important because
that's a safety device I feel lot more
comfortable than it's mine and it's not
Jimmy lier down the road I don't know
how he what he does with it and when I
get it you know I feel more comfortable
it's fine so it it's a safety issue so
from the Larry Foundation $4,5 152 we're
going to purchase 44 units the great
thing is there's no um City commitment
there's no matching points it's just
here you go do what you got to do thank
you very much
so that's what I got question go ahead
please uh thank Mr chairman when we
purchased these devices originally in
what
2014 uh made available to the council we
did a demonstration was the first time
we had him into the fire tower and
offered and the city council members who
wanted at that time put one on and jump
out of the four story we would do it I
would make that available to council if
you want
go up and test one of the
devices I'll go out
first we're not allowing that no I don't
know any other questions I'll move it
second second all in favor I thank you thank you thank you J the next
item is amend the city city code section
2341 to modify the annual income among
for the tax exempt we had a public
hearing on December
11th
and I'm going to hand this over to the
sponsor for this um change legislation
change Mr
Williams Oh for the U tax exemption yes
uh would say any other further updates I
think I was very pleased to to hear the
full support from the council um
although we didn't have an overwhelming
response from the community uh I had the
council meeting uh I myself received a
few followup messages from some
residents saying that they were
definitely pleased to hear that we were
taking action um I think taking into
consideration also the comments from on
the table I wanted to make sure we
weren't doing so at the expense of that
Revenue stream uh I think increasing it
based on Miss neoy I think it's
important to take those gradual steps
and then as we all stated we just um
look forward to evaluating that
information and if we see so uh needed
to increase further we will although I'm
hope it's not
required any other
comments so may have a motion to V
this
do all in
favor all in
favor wait I'm sorry um I don't think we
have a piece of paper in terms of what
we're I mean do we have the um yeah it's
is it I am I missing it
leg is anybody not seeing it or is it
just me it's not CU I I know obviously I
think we all did come to agreement but I
just want to refresher on the amount of
money that we're raising it you know
that kind so miss
uh m m said she go and print it
okay yeah we did have it before heing
all the
Dr I know I just
public just so we're clear on the number that we're talking about okay
right I mean absolutely
no she needs any
[Music]
help sometimes I don't know if just not
see a few things I
asked
something
go
[Music]
for
ass
[Music]
that's
impressive
[Music]
that
and
it's
amazing
yes
me going out two
houses said sawday he
[Music]
said
next the
mar
[Music]
you
[Music]
for
the should
be should be
Tuesday
the changes that are Incorporated in
here um there are other changes that
were made uh for the purpose of
consistency with the state legislation
um section 467 um we had left out tax in
the code that's why I got added uh and
then the there update since the city
council last changed this section of the
law at the state
level husband and wife has now changed
to married couple um that's why it's say
spouse in other sections there's also
very specific language or by siblings um
I spoke
to assessor Maly H
to making these changes she agreed that
those changes are consistent with what's
in the state level but the U the dollar
amount is same the dollar amounts are
based on what Miss maoy gave me um the
amount was up to
$4,400 um then she gave me the breakdown
that's in here the way we had previously
done it we did it we kind of staggered
it in over a period of years that's no
longer necessary to be in our code it's
going to be as of you know assessment
year 2024 and subsequent assessment
years that's what it will be
so it's in two different spots so
obviously on that first page um that's
for the senior citizens and then if you
turn
to
the the back of the second
page um you can see the changes for
persons with limited income who are
disabled it follows the same
schedule
thank you go ahead please is there any
chance we could get the legislation
without without all the cross outs
without instead of husband and wife
married
Papa it will look like that for the
purposes of the so when we do a um an
ordinance we have to essentially the way
we do it we strike out anything that's
going to be removed and um generally we
would italicize anything that's going to
be added um so because there is a lot
that's being removed because we had done
it over a series of years staggering it
in to what it is now all of those
sections are now obsolete which is why
they are cross out um hopefully it will
be clearer once it's drafted for the
purposes of the
ordinance this is a reflection of what
it will look like subject to the coun
appr
any other
questions any other questions what this
presented to us here I think we had a
motion for a second I just need a call
all in favor I thank
you
the next item is discuss this 2024
operating budget once again discussing
the budget as everyone is aware the May
has VTO the second budget that was
presented to him and I'm going to hand
this over to miss P you the part of this
session all right thank you everyone so
as m m said we did present two budgets
to the mayor the mayor has be both
budgets um and you know our goal
ultimately is to pass the budget we
understand that there was a timeline
December 1st however the excuse me
November 1st but the charter does not
speak to what happens if the budget is
not pass at that time um we have been
there have been
conversations with the mayor regarding
what we can do to get to umet where
we're uh both have agreeable that not
everybody gets everything that they're
asking for but it's an agreeable um it's
agreeable budget to to all of us uh the
last time time that in the discussion
was my my I walked away with the
understanding that the use of arpa funds
to cover the waste was something that
was acceptable but um having made that
particular change which to me was pretty
significant it was covering a $1.7
million deficit um that that that was
not acceptable so there um for that
reason the
um the veto the budget was vetoed so um
my understanding is that the mayor does
not wish to use arpa funds for or that
particular issue or to to plug the
budget um on on a major level this year
because arpa funds are something that
we're not going to have forever so if um
the mayor would just like to speak to
his concerns about the arpa funds I
think that's a place we could um just
maybe have that start that
discussion can uh think the arpa funds
were inappropriately thought was being
applied to that in some of the research
search that Mr Cen had done recently
this yesterday this morning some of the
case law that's out there uh I'm more
comfortable taking a position that the
council has probably waved its Authority
your opportunity to make modifications
to my budget by not adopting something
by November
1st and so that in fact that my budget
is presented stands and would be
operting budget for
2024 becomes you know how do we come to
that agreement whether you know starting
action tomorrow Supreme Court and
article 78 proceeding and Su the city
council and the finance
commissioner uh initiate that uh want to
do it still in a friendly way so that we
end up with a product that uh is there
but it may clear
up any of
the the unknown which is been there if
the council doesn't take an affirmative
action that there are consequences there
are things that you have to do where the
statute says things are supposed to
happen by a certain date and they
didn't so um Mr B yeah so I
think uh a good place to start would be
to kind of recognize that um throughout
the process you know um there's been a
lot of you know back and forth
conversations and certain members um
have had you know uh critiques on the
mayor's proposed budget um and I think
that and and the mayor has questions and certainly some critiques around what
the council has presented for him and I
think it kind of Falls in two buckets if
you will that there's some where I think
uh we need to be really honest about the
fact that I think some decisions or even
questions on um you know might have been
motivated by um you know kind of the
political climate um that we're
in and I think the danger of that is
that when that happens then when you
have
uh uh critiques or questions that have
some degree of level of Merit to them
which I think I heard a lot of that it
kind of colors everything um um for the
latter and I just think that you know
that's a good place to start where we
acknowledge that now I did receive the
email from uh Mr Golden today um and I
look forward to hearing what is you know
kind of more of his uh interpretation of
that is but I think it's important that
we recognize that prior to this even
before um uh Mr Cen uh presented us with
the information that he did I have been
talking with with members and I have
been talking with the mayor um and those
conversations to me seem to be happening
in good faith and I would uh even uh
classify them as fruitful conversations
where we were able to move the needle
and I and I think that the best course
of action um would be for us to continue
to do that um I I think
that we have this it has revealed that
we need to look at the charter um to
look at you know what are you know
what's the consequences of if we don't
uh if the city uh does not adopt a
budget within the a lotted time frame
and I think that's something that we
should you know the decisions we make
today aren't just for today we're we're looking down the road so I think
that this kind of um open that up for us
to say let's examine that I think as a
matter of uh uh procedure we should look
at that and res revisit our Charter but
I also think that we need to I don't
think that this uh the situation that
we're in now is going to um lend itself
to us having to find out that the quote
unquote hard way um I you know we have
to based on new information I think it's
I think we're obligated to um make
different calculations and be willing to
make concessions um especially uh based
on new information when we receive it so
I think we should be strong in our
opinions um but hold them Loosely enough
um to where if a new information is
presented we can move so I I think that
what we that there was some of that that
was happening based in my conversations
um and I you know want to appreciate um
the
mayor as well as our council president
and members of council that um I was
able to talk to um and I think that we
just keep heading down that that uh
headed in that direction so we can
um we can get this done so do you want
to outline that the conversation
well I mean I can I can say like some of
the key things um you know that I spoke
with de Mayon and um
I uh you know either agree with or think
that um it's not outside the realm of
being reasonable to be agreeable too um
is that we are going to have to
increase rates that's the reality and I
don't think anyone here is excited about
that no one is looking forward to doing
that but I think that the reality is P
that that needs to happen um and I
appreciate the fact that the council
isn't just first looking for you know
when we need to close the cap let's look
at you know to try to burden um uh the
residents of the city that we also look
at you know efficient systems or
effective systems and other ways to
increase Revenue um but I don't think
that it's either or I think it's a yes
answer so you know the conversation that
um I had with the mayor and some of my
takeaways that I want to share today
would be like I would suggest that we um
meet uh the mayor's uh original proposal
around uh water and sewer fees increase
um to at least uh 75% of what he was uh
originally
proposing and I think that we also uh
meet uh the the the trash the
residential uh trash uh fees
increase to the tun around 50% of what
he proposed originally and I'd like to
look at you know kind of if we could see
like what those numbers would look like
uh and what some of those adjustments
would be made I also um wanted to
highlight that we have a lot of work to
do in our code enforcement that's
something that we talk about often um I
think that uh returning um one of the
jobs to the code enforcement would be uh
act a good faith and step in the right
direction
um and I you know those are just some of
the things that I think that would
really help us get much much closer uh
and I think that there's that that's
justifiable action uh for us to to make
those
considerations but I definitely welcome
our council members
input so Mr go ahead please so I just
want to clarify with the mayor so at
this point in time you're saying you're
not willing to entertain anything else
you're in the council I just want to be
clear I think you know we've gone
through this it's gone down the road and
to clarify not only for us now but going
forward so the question isn't there is
to do an article 78 proceeding and just
have the uh budget uh implemented as
submitted to the council I told has
any comment on that thoughts and don't
he's represented both of us in this so
might actually become a conflicted
positions I like to bring in outside
Council on that so so if if when you
file that the council has to own also
get their own outside Council I can't
tell you what to do or not to do okay
well let me just tell the council
members if it comes to that we also have
to get our own outside Council as well
so I just wanted to make it clear for
you you're not open to any further
discussion regarding this you're you
want to go down the road of a lawsuit I
just wanted to just make it
clear options that are being presented I
feel hind my ability to manage the city
going forward in the fiscal position is
less than optimal and so this point
to from an operational Point going
forward and then just a policy
perspective going forward it will clear
up what the respective roles are and
what the timelines
are Mr up Mr Mr would you I want to
speak it's going to be subject to
attorney client privilege um so the
council would either have to wave that
privilege um or not if you're going to
wave that privilege I would speak openly
about it if you're not going to wave
that privilege and you want me to speak
um have to go and close the doors and
have everybody leave so I can speak to
the council
s so it's up to you Mr move there do we
do that now or do we recess and then go
an executive session at the
end that's teic be outside of executive
session B pardon uh attorney client
discussions are outside of executive
session it's just not even part of the
meeting okay
so are we goinging way of that or we
just would we like to going to Executive
session it wouldn't be executive session
it would just be uh attorney attorney
but but the public would have to leave
okay so we would have to finish our
agenda before that or or not but that
would make sense because I think there's
somebody here who wants to uh who's here
for something on the agenda
so so it seems like
we so it seems like I
mean the course of action would be to uh
recess Finance get through the rest of
our agenda and
then um turn to finance and talk with
Corporation counsel was
that I think based on the gravity of
just the circumstance that we're now in
I think that that is a prudent action
the council should take
okay any other comment go ahead again I
just in case I wasn't clear I think that you know the conversations that
I've had with the mayor and other
members over the past couple days have
been happening in in in good faith um
and we were moving uh a lot closer to
something I think that we were going to
be agreeable on that would work for the
residents of the city is concy and I
would just encourage all of us to to
continue down that uh path because I uh
I I think we're really seeing some
daylight there so I just want to be
clear that would be my recommendation to
the mayor and
councel I want to just kind of
appreciate Mr parley's effort to
dialog to just bring
a clear closure to it as opposed to a
negotiated settlement which still may be
subject to additional
review just set the record going forward
make it a lot easier for any individual
sitting our respective seats
down you what was that he the end
it when somebody else will be mayor
other people will be on the city council
they'll know that they have to adopt a
budget by November
1st so so just to recap so your
suggestion on the proposal on the table
is to
increase the m already bring it up to
50% water and sewer so you're asking
bring that up to 75% water and sewer and
residential Wass you're asking to bring
that proposal on the table to 50% and
one
position in
C right and I think that that is right
that's my position and you know and not to use AR funds you know I think
that you know we
can
go ahead please yes um what council
members have you reached out to I
so so I um spoke with uh the mayor I
spoke with uh count our council
president um and I've reached out to a
couple other council members
um I reached out to me so I just
wondered who who you reached out to
regarding this so we want that needle to move but again was no one reached out
to me to even miss Patrick well I did
speak with you miss Patrick I'm sorry at
the last meeting regarding before that I
did speak with you about the
um the money in terms of ARA you did you
said you wouldn't proberly support it
and you didn't which is fine but that's
okay but I did we were right here in
this room was right and and just yeah
and I think that it's so you know really
what I was trying to do um my uh
strategy here was to really um talk to
people who have uh to me seemed um that
they were uh furthest apart um and I
think that once we kind of were able to
close the gap there I think that it
would be naturally we progress naturally
for us all to be in a better place so
please don't take that as like an you
know excluding you from any conversation
I was just um there there was a method
to what I I was trying to operate with
them
and then I I truly think it's worth
noting so don't want us to to lose this
in semantics Mr Tor with all the respect
your position has quite honestly been
the clearest of supporting the mayor's
proposed budget and I think in kind to M
Mr Farley's uh comment is trying to
understand where the adjustments could
be made and trying to understand how we
can best our work with the mayor U to to
meet our our uh depleting uh timeline
I just to clarify that with regards to
arpa funding no arpa funding was used
for water and so it was only used for um
the
ways go so do you want to talk about
this now or are we going to move forward
with um the other question before we
talk about specifics because
iess finance committee we don't need to
recess because it's basically client
well uh client lawyer privilege so
that's not necessarily finance committee
that's a body as a whole but I think
that recess just to get through the
agenda I think that's what we're saying
and then so the people that are in the
room I okay you make sense I understand
go ahead my understanding of the recess
process is we recess let's say during
that discussion we come to some
understanding then we've only recessed
we have the opportunity to pass the
budget out so I'm not saying could
happen but we're leaving that room we're
leaving the room for that to happen so
recessing would allow that yes I
understand that but that question was
about the lawyer yeah two things could
be true seems like they're
both so are we
recessing I make a motion to recess
second all in favor the finance
committee it recess thank you I'd like
to follow order City development and
planning we have eight items on the
agenda the first first item is to
request for the authorization purchase
of chlorine gas 2024 for the water
department Mr
lefon tonight is to purchase replenish
of supply of coring gas for the
treatment of drinking water at the the W
fields on Rice Road SP out every year
this year's bid U if approved will be
awarded to um jci Jones
um in the amount of $91,200 which is
$250 per cylinder which is roughly 365
cylinders one cylinder per day um that's
a slight decrease from last year how
much those decreases $50 per cylind so
we have to do the math
18,250 okay that's providing we use one
per day and that varies it depends on
how much water is the demand for and how
much we treat so it's just a rough
estimate usually about
365 that's our average so we would be
saving around
$188,000 okay are there any questions
I'll move it second all in favor our
second item is request to uh for
authorization to purchase sodium
hydrochloride 2024 for the wastewater
treatment plan again um that is for
disection of the waste water prior to
entering the river um it's roughly uh
21,400 gallon or
uh it's a slight decrease over last year
80 per gallon versus
$24 last year we bid twice because of
the demand for fing we did a six-month
bid it came down a little bit more and
this time we bid out for full year and
the price should come down a little bit
I do the math but oh I'm sorry it's
$24,000 roughly in
savings any questions I'll move it
second all in favor thank you thank you
we can save money we're
happy um the next item on the agenda is
for arbura contract update fortunately
um Miss haror had a family um emergency
that came up uh so she had to go take
care of that and so she's ask that we
just put that off pull that put that off
for two weeks and she'll be here to
um give us those
updates okay um the final five items are
for ex executive session for sale of
properties so I would ask to go to the
executive
session so second all in
favor okay we'll be going to Executive
session so members of the public will
have to
leave and then and then we'll
recom I think we're going to go through
the then we' Rec combine no but I mean
after that we Rec just so they
know
[Music]
think
for
e
for
e
for
e
for
e
you can
see yeah there
are what's that laptop what
about oh all right okay so i' would like
to reconvene the finance
committee and just proba you want to
take this back and
just yeah proposal is yeah so as I
mentioned earlier I think that um it it
the best course of action is uh continue
uh on the progress that we made um and
get something agreable uh so we can pass
a a budget for the people of city of
connec um I I would like uh the
council's favorable consideration of
meeting um the mayor's uh water and
sewer a rate at 100% of what his
proposed rate was
um as well as I know that Mr Mayor there
was um uh one of key position in your
staff that you
uh wanted us to
ad
adjustment from the Cil perspective and
just ask that that be put back to my
recommendation what's can you can you
tell us what the adjustment
is so it's a position in your office
correct yeah so I I uh I would ask the council
to consider that uh as well
um and also I'd like the council to
consider uh um putting back a job one of
the positions to our code enforcement um
because
uh
we know that we need to uh do some work
around that area with our code
enforcement as we're trying to work to
strengthen um The Code Enforcement here
knowing that we just unfortunately um
lost somebody out of that department we
want to make sure that we have enough
opportunity for people uh to apply and
so I I think that that would be a good
course of action as
well just before I I just want to make
sure we get the notes right so you're
asking now that you're changing your
previous proposal
water 100% SE is 100% the W at 50% 100%
of the of the mayor's uh proposed budget water for for water and
sewer for water % for for Waste
residential yes and you 75% he's
changing it back to 100% instead of for
the waste for waste down no 50 50 said I I I I said uh
originally I said 50% Mr Mayor did you
think that
uh5 I think that
um interesting how when you think you
never think in a way that goes this way
right but um uh again I I I don't think
that that's um going to be a deal
breaker for me I think that
um I'd ask the council to consider that
as well um and the small M very minor uh
budget adjustment um for uh
staff in the mayor's office and I think
that if we can get there then we can get
it
done well I ask also the assistant
Corporation counsel go back they need
that code enforcement to do some of the
revenue generation
and Beyond Mr fr I appreciate this
dialogue and thought this is then you
put on the ballot in November an
amendment to the Charter take to the
voters and say that
if a budget is not reached by November
1st it the mayor's budget is adopted
there's other versions where it says it
goes back to the prior year budget or
some scenario which I'm open to the
wording on that so it clears up uh again
any question about what the process is
with the outcomes so how many
Corporation Council are there current
how many assistant Corporation curent
are they
current positions I know they're not all
people there but positions I don't so we
asking just for
one one slot in my budget dropped to
$60,000 position and then the council is
looking to take
82,000 I'm just asking that be
reinstated so so how many so how many
Corporation Council positions are there
current we can look it up oh
okay before we made our
changes just got to find the right pars
okay
oops
um looks like
the in the do you want me to say this
out loud yeah yeah okay so we have sheet
of paper yeah pass it around um
basically we had uh three assistant
corporate councils but we only in the
2024 proposed mayor or a budget two of
those would be um and there wasn't
anybody in a third one before so two of
them would would be uh in the mayor's
budget and the Council budget was
removing one so we would be coming back
to
two and it is true that that um position
I believe in conversations I've had with
the mayor is really important in terms
of some of the um closings on on the
property on the property
Sal residential component of the homes
progr yeah so it can help generate
revenue and also like so we all because
we all know that Mr C will not be with
us at beginning of the year
so we
adding yeah
so let so let me just be let me just
recap just to make sure I'm getting it
right because I've got a lot of C outs
here so you're asking for Corporation
Council me too that was in your proposed
budget assistant assistant Corporation
Council that was in your proposed budget
the changes from what is basically the
last version from the counil would be to
reinstate one more Code Enforcement
Officers
the system Corporation Council and the
minor adjustment to one position in my
office um and then in s water you're
saying 100% And then
waste
50% 75 but if
we went to the
50 not happy with but we had they're
talking about putting the $100,000
number for
jackpots uh I
would go with that and then just need
from the council that early in January
we'll look at oh yeah the jackpot
component the fee on that so that in
fact that becomes a realistic number
because today I can't even though we
agree to it there's no way for me to
actually implement that in the field
right and the then oh I'm
sorry B chair's over there b CH please
Sor no wor wor thought trying to put
everything and also the nature I think
uh to the nature of that Jack Pot fee if
you will is that once we start to
implement it then we can kind of expect
for it to start to decrease cuz people
will start to will start to deter people
from putting that much garbage out so we
can kind of have an expectation for that
Mr
leond late today sent me around notice
of some of the fee adjustments and I
think it's we estimat about
$138,000 above what our assumptions were
when we put the budget forth it's just
Cost going
up the
reality get rid of the
garbage so I just want to clarify
that you're saying you'd go with 100% of
what the mayor was suggesting for water
and sewer that's correct and 50% with
the Wass and
$100,000 for the
jackpot but the jackpot won't be a part
of the suspens that's we put we would
put a line in the budget for $100,000 in
revenue for Waste we have to go
back as quick as we can actually put the
mechanism in for the jackpots in for
that so in the revenue line okay so
that's always nice that's Mr go ahead
please um but so that still means this last dated 127 the last Council
budget M was was at 50% of the waste uh
charges as uh projected by the mayor so
we would still be down 1.7 million in
Revenue if we went with 50% of the waste
fee I think but that was on residential
was that's residential um no was it
commercial no the commercial um you
didn't do anything with resal commercial
yeah it was all commercial I thought
that um the majority of the council was
trying to reduce the mayoral project the
mayoral um request for refug this is my
last go ahead try to put um instead of
the budget that the mayor proposed of6
959
273 um the council was proposing U minus
1,732
990 no it has to do with um commercial
we didn't touch anything on residential
for
we yeah I thought you were cutting all
three fees by 50% in what you were
trying to
project
then yeah could could
be here to kind of give us the number so
therefore we're not so this is the 50%
commercial we didn't touch on
residential so this 50% that is proposed
by Mr Harley is that new for residential
50% and 50% for commercial that was
already incorporated into these
changes yes and now we're 50% that is
new that is completely new Patrick we
said no increase for waste that
was any document you have in front of
you show no increase for
res 50% but it was only for the
commercial res so could we get the
numbers so so and then we can no we
don't talking Mr Mr M so what's go ahead
please no I don't have a question I just
want to so if everybody understands the
agreement there's no more questions at
this point in time we would have to have
um Mr ho run those numbers
and Y and excuse me bring that back to
the
um finance committee so go ahead please
well but except that there's still out
there is the overtime um for the police
and fire we haven't talked about that I
mean I I guess I understand what you're
saying about the fees so I guess
although I think I was operating under a
different idea all the way through all
of our weeks of discussions in terms of
what you were suggesting with those fees
um but I still would like to talk about
the overtime for the police and the and the
fire um I think there were and then I
want to go back and look at these
positions as well um in terms of you
know I mean there you know I don't know
there's still things that I was in
disagreement with I think my colleagues
are as well but I don't know we haven't
had that conversation
but
so I'm not ready to vote until we you
know look at this so what happens
tonight is comes out of Finance so the
finance committee would voted out
whatever whatever we discuss tonight I
see but I thought but then and then we'd
have to have a special meeting again to
try to vote on the budget we can't vote
on the budget in other words we can't
vot I would
suggest people are in agreement with
that General
package people aren't necessarily 100%
happy is that and president either you
or one of the members of the council
call for a special meeting on
Thursday we'll have the numbers worked
up tomorrow morning send out to the
council doesn't have to go through the
finance committee there'll be one item
on the agenda for Thursday if we vote on
a new
budget so we we will not have to pass
the start of
Finance if you're calling for a special
meeting we call for a special meeting
you don't have to have an amendment come
out committee
process but the notice has to say I'm
sorry but the notice has to say what the
special meeting is for what youve done
before
than just so
very
let's see so we we can get any number to
work I know stand your point very TR to
come to see where we are in terms of
these changes in terms of moving to 100%
on water SE moving to 50% on residential
wayte with 100 100,000 for jackpot code
enforcement position going back and the
mayor's office the $3,000 production and
the assistant cooperation one position
go that um and and would we keep the
commercial um waste feed increase that
we discussed yes the commercial will
stay at the same
50% for
Le uh go ahead please so um are we going
to be asking the finance department to
work of what we discussing that's I was
going to
ask have that in front of us I mean a
few we're in conceptual agreement can
put the numbers
together first thing tomorrow morning
and get them out to you by the later
part of the
morning I'm AG for resolution that would
be acted upon on Thursday Mr to get to
miss patri point I mean there will not
be an opportunity to discuss some of the
things you are talking about I'm feeling
like there were discussions that
happened that I certainly was not a part
of I don't know if any of my colleagues
were a part of it it sounds like Mr
Farley I'm H I'm fine that you know Mr
Farley seems to have talked to the mayor
but I'm just wondering if other people
have also had any conversations I'm
feeling a little as though um you know
some stuff has happened that I just
wasn't aware about because it did so
okay just wanted to make sure but but I
think it's really important that um you
know I didn't I didn't have to have any
special permission no I know I tried I
tried to go see the mayor myself any
other members right so I think that you
know um just didn't so you for as well
taken and understood so um I would uh
move for with that course of action
of give those numbers to us first St in
the morning call a special
meeting I'm Happ the scenario but the
other option is start an action tomorrow
I hear that in Supreme
Court have resolved and I'm also going
to start lay off notices I shouldn't say
layoff but fur notices where won't be a
budget in place don't be you expend any
funds and
so people aren't going to get paid so
you get a whole level of Havoc as
opposed
to a less than optimal scenario from
everybody's perspective in the agreement
that we put something on the ballot in
November that will clarify this
for individuals in the future I'm
completely in favor of that by the way
the charter thing we wouldn't be in the
trouble we're in right now please and
I'd like to know what what everyone's
opinion is on on bringing back the
police uh refunding the police overtime
the uh police detective over time the
fire department over time the additional
jobs that were taken out of the budget
um that we need
to I mean we if fin I talked about some of those
[Music]
positions and at this point we're doing
recruitment if during the course of the
year I have to come back to the council
for authority to follow those I will do
that I just feel like we're being held
hostage
without oh yes I feel
the
okay okay so when first come sorry
Mr it's truly important to identify that
if you are now indicating that you are
interested in negotiating it is truly
beyond that point and I think at this
current juncture I truly appreciate Mr
Farley for taking it upon himself to try
and identify best means that gets a
budget pass for the city I can
specifically speak for myself these
numbers definitely transition greatly
from what I was open to however
understanding how do we present a budget
so that the mayor does not have to
proceed in the manner that he is
indicated at the beginning of our
meeting is important so once again no
one is leaving this process entirely
happy that is honestly the definition of
negotiating I hope that next year we can
have a more uh clean and productive
conversation from the onset because we
had time uh that that that that is where
we currently are go okay I am somewhat
offended by Mr Williams remarks and I'm
sorry uh to say this but I think that we
were open to negotiating I think we've
spent hours and hours and hours trying
to negotiate so I I think that we've had
negotiations at every single one of
these budget meetings um we just
couldn't come to agreement over some of
the things sometimes that's what happens
in a negotiation I certainly don't have
to be taught what a negotiation is at
this juncture in my professional uh
career so I do want to just
unfortunately that just raised my eye um
that you don't often see here at this
table um but I I do need to at least be
clear about that um I think I you know I
think we absolutely have to do something
to the Charter um because clearly you
know something has to be fixed in the
future so that a a future city council
will not have to get to this point that
we have gotten to um but I do think that
uh and I also want to go back to what
you were saying Mr farle earlier I think
there probably might have been some
political kinds of things that were
happening I didn't feel that they were
on my end certainly but I did feel that
those of us that were up for reelection
actually might have been targeted um by
some of the I'm just being completely
open and honest now um that we were
targeted before the election um with
these budget negotiations um however I
was I actually felt that after the
election was over perhaps we were going
to be able to come to more um compromise
which did not happen right after the
election so I was I was somewhat shocked
by that um so you're hearing a lot of
anger at this point that I have been uh
holding in um but I do agree with the
charter piece um from from both parties
here um and I do think that there's
other positions that I feel badly if we
don't um have them back into the budget
um so and I think there's things that
are in this Council budget that we don't
need to be spending money on so there's that as well so I've kind of
kept my silence uh previously but that
just really upset me go ahead please
thank you f so like I always say how you
see it depends on where you sit and I
think that I don't believe that any of
us feel that we're walking away with
everything that we would have hoped for
and um and I'm not angry at anyone just
to be clear because about this is about
us as a council working together to get
to a place where we can agree and we're
not 100% there but we're at a place
where we can pass the budget out and
that's that's been our goal and I um I
think it's unfortunate that it took
someone saying something to to for for
us to speak out about what's um what
your what you were feeling it would have
been ideal to hear those things so I
don't want this to get to a place that
we're Guided by our emotions you know we
should be guided by what is the best um
for the residents connected I think
we've come to a place that's not ideal
has been stated numerous times including
by the mayor but again what he's also
said and with everyone a council member
know is that if it comes time that we
need to amend the budget reappropriate
it's been done throughout the years so
it is something that we can do so at
this point in time we're at a position
where we can um not have an IDE have an
idea but be able to move forward and
pass the budget I it's up to you Mr M I
hear what you're saying I think that all
of us probably understood that we could
have made amendments um and we could
have solved this budget issue you know
weeks ago um so I hear what you're
saying but we we I think we all knew
that um so back to what Mr Farley said
um you know why why didn't you do it
weeks ago so yes I've usually tried to
keep myself very calm and you're right
emotion is coming in tonight because um
yeah got let me just address I mean yes
at the beginning everyone was some of us
participate you participate then next
day you came back with a statement
prepare statement and read it yes so the
council and then you dug your heels in
that we should support the mayor's
Budget on the and the time so I'm not
sure how can you have a true negotiation
when you're stuck in you know the
mayor's so you score the mayor's budget
right so then how can we have a fruitful
negotiation or discussion with regards
to how we move forward Okay so I want to
address that because we're not open to
negotiation if you says well I support
this well I was trying
to I will say in in defense of myself
that I was trying because I remember all
these things has happened so so at this
point I think it's important that I'm
not going to invalidate anyone's
feelings at the table okay I think that
we all care about our city greatly and I
think that so when you care about
something you love something when you
feel that something's is happening
that's not right it can it can you know
produce some emotions so I'm not going
to validate anybody's experience but I
will say that right now the conversation
is becoming a little circular and we
might start to try to relitigate things
that have have have happened and I think
that the best course of action is to uh
kind of be more Mindful and and and be
intentional about creating space for
people to make sure that they're sharing
their opinions and being heard moving
forward and at this point I would really
suest that we
um move forward with some action
and so question question for May the
mayor you're okay with the discussion
proposal on the table going 100% with
your fees of water so 50% as the
discussion with you Mr Harley for
residential ways $100,000 for a jackpack
and the revenue line and you going to do
the in andout code position the mayor's
office to fund that position back to
where was proposed from the mayor and
the assistant Corporation
Council I'm trying to to make sure
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that no no no no
information I think we can make that
work get numbers not going to ask D put
together tonight but have it first well
you want tonight back to have that in
place and then again the
understanding I think we'll come
together and be all semiha happppy we
only slightly irritated the real point
of negotiation still BEC comes with the
jackpot which sounds like a simple thing
but the mechanics ofing how much we're
going to classify the jackpot how we do
the accounting how we do the billing how
we document that is not a simple process
and so it's going to require everybody
looking at it keeping an open mind
working with the staff uh there may be
scenarios there where we could get more
Revenue out of those uh sites that
generate more cost and it's we all know
it's out there we have a great
system really a very
efficient uh
operation in terms of waste collection
but there are some people who drive a
very small component of the cost and
there's other people who drive a much
larger component with the cost and how
do we again
allocate the fees to reflect
that so what I'm hearing is that we
can't get this tonight so we'll get this
done tomorrow to the council I'm still
like I understand your pointment where
we um we don't I'm thinking of we should
still resets finance committee so once
we have these numbers we can look at
some of the other
stuff there is there it's the tax bills
have to go up component of the charter
which you post the tax it only applies
to the upcoming year so I would again
look for a Thursday meeting that's
one when you prepare the notice you let
me know I'll have the police department
deliver the
notice
got yeah
so yeah so I I we can lower that
overtime
budget well we're getting Dron so that's
going to help tremendously all right let
not let's this this a serious business
here so let's work those numbers up um
get it back to us tomorrow
um by 11 as early as you can let's look
at all these changes that was proposed I
just want to confirm changes they
discussing 100% uh water and silver the
budget uh 50% waste uh you want to um
bringing back a code enforcement officer
um bring back the original salary of the
mayor's position his uh budget um add
assistant Corporation Council back uh
Bara there any changes in the Council
salaries that's I'm just the way it says
residential we can leave the proposal
that for the council
salary
um support the
pay but so okay go ahead please so now
I'm really confused so are we going to
come back on Thursday today but we're
not going to discuss this budget any
longer we're just going to come back and
vote it's on whatever the numbers are
coming in tomorrow to us but that's what
I was proposing just that I think that I
we should recess the finance just for
the sake of in case we need to meet and
be other the safe side Mr because it
sounds like I mean just hearing that for
example it sounds like some of these
other things are still going to be part
of the numbers that we're going to see
tomorrow right Mr well that is part of
the original change of
yeah yeah the only the only changes we
making the code enforcement the mayor's
office change and the assistant change
in terms of positions Mr a
question during city council meeting
presumably you'd be doing aoll call vote
You' have an opportunity to discuss
items um during that special
counil to discuss whatever you receive
from the finance um department and you
know you that's your time to do it
during that discussion period and Hammer
anything out and make any changes you
know through a motion um if
necessary so there I can understand why
you may feel a need to recess when
people get the numbers want people to
look at now there still may be what I
call them dime
adjustments I'm open to those hope
council members would keep an open mind
to it but the option is that the police
department fire department that we're
moving down the path of shutting the
city down and if I don't have an
agreement tonight I'm going to start
supreme court tomorrow which is not
going to happen overnight you know be an
expedited case but to litigate it and in
scenario of just putting it out the
ballot November is simpler and gives us
something to work for it that we in all
likelihood are going to be back here
next year talking
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about garbage fees because our costs are
up
and they're always there
so so I guess one more question in this
one would be for Corporation Council so
um special meeting but then we have our
Monday council meeting and that's where
basically I mean this budget doesn't
have to pass unanimously correct what's
the number of people four four
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okay I don't believe you have a council
meeting
on Tuesday the day after Christmas is Monday we're not coming vot
for it well there's there's seven of us
three of us probably
right oh go ahead please we be able to
uh because we had this circumstance with
Mr P um would we be able to explain our
vote when you will explain there
discussion we'll discuss it and then we
then we'll go to voting so you'll have
you can take as long as you your
positions are right read whatever that
you have and then any discussion on
Section we're still to discuss it to to
explain our vote when we vote that's not
in the
charter Mr F can you address that I
think um I our code adopts the Rober
schools of order unless is an exception
right right so if there's nothing in our
code that says what happens during the
roll call vote we fall back on Rob schs
Council can suspend the rules we have an
agreement tonight that everybody can
talk as long as they want we routinely
don't the problem but well we all right
let's let's have a so Mr what Mr colini
wants is to not have his discussion to
wait until it's time to vote when so
hope we're voting part of everybody will
so I'm requesting we go by what the code
says and we follow the Roberts Rules of
Order and if we haven't it's because
we've been able to to have these
discussions in a very amicable way and
since that has we moved away from that
then we should be following Robert rules
of orders and we're quickly returning to
that let's go so just move there you
want to wrap this up well then you can't
just going forward you can't just sit
there and say we're going to file
Robert's rules on this time but this
time we're not no that's not what that's what's happened for years
well we're going to change that that's
all I'm saying okay
go ahead please no I was just looking
for you to go ahead and wrap up the
business so it seems like we already got
the uh the notice of a meeting so then I
guess you would just be so so so you
don't need to recess so then we just
need to adjourn according to okay I'm
sorry yeah you know that's that's my
question I'm just yeah that's what I was
thinking about recess or a jar and me go
straight to the special council meeting
and present the numbers at the council
meeting next
Thursday and if there's any changes
we'll do
amendments from the floor so I'm going
to send out all the
changes so if anybody has any questions
when they see it hopefully by consensus
we could
agre
I'm
sorry we need a position in terms of
who's going to support um what is on the
table right now is
that I mean that's what I'm trying to
conceptual support for that among the
council as a
whole I would support it I support it no
I don't even know what I'm
supporting so until I see those
numbers
I'm not I think
that's so but I don't think it really
matter I guess what I'm trying to say is
I don't really think it matters honestly
and um because you
only you only need four votes so I think
um you know I'd like people
to think about their
position
and taking me big effort to come to this
point MH
would appreciate a 70
vote I mean my position was very clear
from the beginning of this budget that
in terms of fees and taxes increased um
toward works and taxpayer has to Bear
the BRS of it it is no secret that I
made objection to that from the
beginning all the way to the end of it
um I sticking that in terms of what but
at some point we need to compromise and
that's why we need budget negotiation
compromise we can't dig our HS in the
sand and say
I support this I'm not going to do any
single thing I mean
I appreciate Mr Farley and discussion I
was expecting so much of increase I
thought maybe you would you know meet to
the
middle in the sake of compromise but we
all should do going forward I am going
to We Up support
this I don't like it but I have to
support it so that we can move
forward
I guess um I appreciate that we're
keeping the fees uh at least two of the
three fees um because you know I can't
tell you how many times I heard well
we're going to have to increase Revenue
well the reality is that how you
increase Revenue in a municipality is
through these fees um I've been
maintaining right from the start that
the fact that the council wouldn't
raiseed the fees last year to what uh
the mayor had um and the finance commit
commissioner had asked for is what put
us um behind the eightball in starting
these negotiations this year um so I
just want to be clear about that but I
also still feel that we're affecting
Public Safety um without U reconsidering
the overtime increases for the police
and fire I think especially when I think
about the reality of um Chief Marino's
budget just in particular I'll just
throw out there that I know he gave us a
very realistic figure um it's true that I I I just have to say that we'll
be back here in April um basically
making an amendment to put more money
into the overtime if we don't pass the
overtime now um you know it's going to
we're going to need it um so you know I understand compromise I definitely do
um but I just have to State for the
record that this process
was incredibly flawed um um
and I don't know well I mean you can
this PL I
mean we all as a council should get more
involved we we had some meeting here and
there's maybe zero communication from
some members that no participation was so minimal in terms of
what presented what you wanted to offer
is there any anything so we talk about
that yes we increase fee but we got look
at the tax pays we cannot continue we
can I just continue to say okay we're
going to increase you know maintain
service increase service and pass it on
to the back of taxpayer we have to look
we as a counil have to look how do we
expand our Revenue look at fees the all
fees that we have structur look at how
we go back and look at the pilot project
I don't know we need to discuss that how
can we able to address some of those
things expand our Revenue we as a counil
should do that then we we got
to stop looking at passing down tax pay
tiing my b we need to talk to department
heads not we I'm just making a statement
department head need to look at
tightening the belt we cannot have
outter control spending year after year
how do we CL and that and let say let's
be
accountable those are the things we have
we here as a council represent our
taxpayers and we cannot continue to do
that over and over every year where what
is the purpose
of so I just want to say that again I think that the conversation is
starting to become a little circular and
I think that um I don't want to
invalidate anyone's feelings or
experience that they have gone through
at the table otherwise but at this point
I think that there's a reasonable action
to be taken ahead of us I would just
urge the council to let's move in that
direction and there will be time for
discussion um and I think that we
discussed it at that time but at this
point I would just urge us to um call
our adjournment um allow this uh
gentleman here to do uh his job and then
let's uh
reconvene just want to analis before we adj please so the public is
aware thank
you so um we will adjourn um finance and
then we will call for a special city
council meeting on Thursday December
21st at 5:30 right here at City Hall
105j Street room 110 and the purpose
would be for the SKC city council to
pass 2024 operating budget and capital
budget for the city of skincity asking
that all City Council Members be present
do you have any uh questions or you want
additional information about this you
can uh contact our city clerk Samantha
Miku at 518 38251
95 okay motion toor finance committee
second second all favor all
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all when
you