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Good afternoon. I guess technically it is a few minutes afternoon. Welcome to the Tuesday, May 21, 2024,

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just for County Planning Commission work session. We will begin by asking if there any request to postpone

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action emergency additions changes in the order of present motion. Mr. Chair, if I may we have an environmental

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engineering item that we'd like to add to the agenda as to see and this would be additional

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floodplain amendments and I can speak to that once the time comes.

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Second, so we have a motion in the second to add item to see the agenda and Mr. Robinson

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will explain the details on that one when it's appropriate.

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Thank you.

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any other changes or additions we did a motion a second but we didn't do the

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roll call you're right sorry that's why you're here

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Mr. Pracharsky I Mr. Sloan Miss Hardin I Dr. Hilton Mr. Owens

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Mr. Chair will is unanimous the motion passes thank you madam Clark appreciate the

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there. So with that, we will move on to our next item, which will not put anybody to sleep.

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I didn't mean that at all. I'm sure Rachel will keep us thoroughly entertained with our update

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on ZILMOD, the Zoning Ordnance Modernization Project 20PJ 0107, a review of Article 4

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Development Standards. Yes, sir, good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the Commission,

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Mr. Gillies. We are here today to dive into your third month of Zomod Draft 2. We are covering

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article 4, the development standards article. As you can see on your screen we've already

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covered those articles that are in gray and those without a color are upcoming. But we do

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anticipate that we're going to cover development standards over the next three months or so.

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So you'll see us in this article for a little while.

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Before we dive into article four,

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we wanted to just highlight some of the topics

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that we covered, or that we felt like needed

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a little bit more discussion from last month,

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when we talked about article three and nine,

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the use, uses use restrictions in definitions.

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And feel free to add anything to this list

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that you would like as well.

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What we're doing is creating a parking lot.

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That's the image on the back of the screen.

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And so each month as we go through topics,

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we'll have various things that we want to put in the parking lot

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to come back to.

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And so we'll review these issues with you

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and then the ultimate plan is for us to dive deeper

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into these items, probably in the September October timeframe.

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So this will allow staff to do additional research

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that's needed on these topics.

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So in our discussion last month on Article 3 and 9, there was a request to revisit all of our

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hospitality related uses at a later date. So we are planning to arrange a discussion on short-term

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rentals, bed and breakfast and accessory dwelling units.

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A question last month arose about how the ordinance would address businesses such as the

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plans to make that correction and add that to draft three, so that one will come off of this list pretty quickly.

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In addition, during the meeting last month, the question was asked about how a crisis management facility would be treated in ZOMOD.

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Staff met with Kelly Fried in mental health support services and determined that these facilities would be covered under the medical clinic in ZOMOD.

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So no further action would be needed on this item, but we did get clarification from her what this would be and we looked at that in the context of Zomot and do feel it with fit there.

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The last item from our discussion on uses to be placed in the parking lot of items is private street width.

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with the continued concern of moving fire and rescue equipment through two narrow of street

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staff is working with v dot c dot and fire to determine a recommendation to be placed in zoma

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and we do have meetings internally scheduled to cover this topic and we'll be reporting back to you.

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You have any more on articles three or nine right now.

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This slide is just to remind you that in

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March when we covered articles one and two on the zoning districts.

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You did have a few items that you wanted in the parking lot and staff is continuing to

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research these items along with additional assistance from other departments.

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And we wanted to check in with you to be sure you didn't have any more items that you wanted

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to add to the parking lot for articles one and two.

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Okay.

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Last month, you indicated that you wanted to spend a little bit more time on the Board of

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opening appeals topic that we did not dive into very deeply.

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So we have child family daycare, home occupation, and RV parking, as all restricted uses in

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the current ordinance.

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Today, if the applicant cannot meet the restrictions, the Board of Supervisors may grant a

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conditional use.

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So in other words, the pathway is through the planning commission and the Board of Supervisors.

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So in ZOMOD, these four uses are still proposed to be restricted, however, in an if and

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applicant cannot meet those restrictions,

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though might has prescribed a different pathway

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than today. That pathway is proposed to be a

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special exception through the board of zoning appeals.

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We would like to note that one of these uses on the screen

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is a new use to zomide the family daycare for adults.

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So what this means is that those cases with no longer come

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to you with the planning commission but would be transferred to the BZA

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for their review and approval.

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So we'll take a little look at the child family daycare use, which is restricted as an example.

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When we look at the use restrictions, we see that the maximum number of children permitted with restrictions is four,

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excluding the provider's own children and any children residing in the home.

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So should the applicant want to keep, let's say, six children.

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They would now go through the Board of Zoning Appeals for a Special Exception.

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This would be the same for the other four listed uses on this slide.

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We wanted to see if you had any discussion on those items.

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So we'll move into article four development standards.

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And we do have a team of speakers today.

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We have Drew Knoxson, Jeff Lampson, and Thomas Jenkins to cover the various topics.

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We're going to talk about amenity space, general provisions, building design and signs.

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We also have our consultant Mark White with us.

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Joining via teams if you have any additional questions, he's happy to help with answers.

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I'm going to turn it over to Drew Knox and he'll take us through general provision.

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Dr. New Mr. Chair, members of Commission and Director Gillies.

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Once again, this is getting into our development standards.

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We're going to really hit mostly a many of these space today.

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I just wanted to go through the kind of first intro to the development standards section,

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which was just our general provisions.

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And I'm really just going to skip over that and just go pretty brief with this.

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It has a purpose statement, has our applicability of, you know, the project

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that applies to new site subdivision plans, that sort of thing.

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And then it goes into underground utility lines and structures that require, you know,

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to meet the zoning ordinance.

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And that's actually something we have in our ordinance today.

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So there's really no change to that part of the general provisions.

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What we really want to start with is the amenity space section.

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This is a pretty long presentation, so I apologize for that, but I will say this is one of our most crucial sections of ZOMOD.

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So it's very important to us. We spent many, many hours on this.

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You all recall there was a common area amendment about two years ago.

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We've taken a lot of that common area amendment and brought it forward into ZOMOD, but we've also added a lot of items.

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more qualifying items.

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So I'm going to run through those as well.

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So first, with the amenity space,

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the purpose here is really to provide standards for amenities

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as required by each of the zoning districts.

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It promotes resource protection by incentivizing open space

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and providing for open space in most single-family districts,

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which is an improvement over today's residential ordinance requirements.

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It encourages neighborhood compatibility through transition.

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The section provides greater recreational opportunities for new developments.

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It protects property values and finally the section provides flexibility by offering an extensive menu of items the satisfy the requirements of this section.

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And I will just point you to we are starting that page 185 on your clean zone mod draft.

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So what is the menu space? Well, you know we covered all the individual zoning districts over the last few months and talked about percentages.

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for each of the districts, but we didn't really go into detail about what amenity space

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actually is or what the calculation for those different districts is. By definition, amenity

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spaces land within a development or project design developed and maintained for use and enjoyment of

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residents, visitors, and or the general public.

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And where does amenity space apply in ZOMOT?

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amenity space is applicable to all new zoning cases, subdivision plats, and site plans as of the

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option of this ordinance. It's required as a percentage of the...

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The net-developable area of a project under the applicable zoning district required it. Just to remind you that net-developable area or net acreage is the gross site area minus any resource protection areas RPA.

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We're the zoning district or the section requires amenity space.

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The following categories count towards the total amenity space requirement.

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The amenity space should be designed to improve and installed with the first phase of any project development

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unless a phasing plan is approved by the planning department.

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We do have a few exceptions to where amenity space applies or doesn't apply.

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Few of those exceptions are any single family residential subdivision containing less than 20 lots

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unless it's part of a larger subdivision development or master-pointing community.

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Any development requiring site-point approval of less than two acres, unless part of a larger project.

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Zomot also exempts some of our free-standing commercial and employment uses, as they're typically smaller,

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have fewer employees and attract fewer visitors.

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For example, a many storage or a gas station, there's a kind of free-standing uses that are not part of a larger commercial park or employment park,

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which really don't need to have amenities based.

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It also wouldn't apply to plans approved

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or any lots recorded before ZOMOD is adopted.

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Is there a factor that one in the last slide, please?

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On the second bullet in many of these space,

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requires a percentage of net-developal area.

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I know there's been some legal challenges

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around this and other municipalities.

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So I just wanted to talk about this one for a moment.

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When we're talking gross versus net, are we treating a amenity space the same way we would treat units per acre when we're calculating density per case?

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No sir, so far today, acreage gross acreage is what we use to calculate density and that could include RPA that could include wetlands that can include even water.

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the lake, you know, the reservoir.

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We've had cases where that factored into gross acreage.

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This is just calculating that gross acreage,

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but you subtract out the RPA areas.

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So really, we are calculating the amenity space based

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on the true buildable area.

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Now, that excludes some steep slopes and things like that,

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but mostly we look at RPA when we talk about

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what's buildable land and what's not buildable land.

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Because that that often includes flood plains, wetlands,

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and other areas as well.

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exactly. So thank you for that. So I bring that up because not for while on this slide,

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but I guess maybe for that parking lot that we were just discussing. I would like to dedicate

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some time, maybe with environmental engineering here, to discuss how the amenity space

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calculation might be able to include some of the RPA, like if there's a trail or a way

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we can activate it or have it be something that the community does, in fact, enjoy.

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I'd like to look into maybe, not going all the way from gross calculation to net,

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and maybe there's a compromise somewhere in the middle for that.

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When we get into a qualifying items in a few moments, we will actually talk about some areas

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are able to be counted in RPA, and that's 100 foot width. I'll get into a little more detail in a few moments,

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but we have considered that there's some considerations in the existing common area ordinance.

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where we did that amendment two years ago that we brought it over as well.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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One of the things we tried to do with using the net acreage for the calculation

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of how much amenities space was to not burden the development too much with unusable area.

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We are, as he just alluded to, if there's a way they can work a trail into some of that

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area or some sort of amenity element, we're giving them credit for that. So it's kind

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of an almost an extra incentive if they can figure out how to put a trail through the RPA.

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It's land that they're not getting used to count against, you know, towards that requirement,

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but they can use some of that land to meet that requirement. So you try to make that a kind of

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our PA area is much as possible.

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And before we go, one of the things we heard

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at the advisory committee meeting this week,

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Frank, I know you heard it was the group,

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I think, would like to add wetlands into their tubes,

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not just our PA areas, but wetlands excluded from the net,

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So that might be a draft three improvement,

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if you all are open to that as well.

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Excellent.

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Chair.

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Mr. Chair.

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Mr. Chair.

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That brings up an interesting point.

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And if I'm prevent an us from getting into a deeper discussion,

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You know, just tell me to stop.

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We'll go back to the definition of a menidious space.

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I don't know if definitions come.

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So we talk about being maintained for the use

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and enjoyment of the residents.

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How do we draw a nexus

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for the enjoyment

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of residents and visitors to wetlands and BMPs?

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Are we, sort of the residents?

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I mean, most of us know what flows into a BMP

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are we suggesting that a BMP is an amenity that we would want the residents of a community

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to literally enjoy the BMP.

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So with BMPs and I'm going to talk about that in a few moments as well.

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We do have some criteria for allowing areas around BMPs to be immunatized in residential areas

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and in commercial areas, entire BMPs, be counted depending on the kind of improvements

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you install with them.

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So, and you'll see some photos, we have some examples of photos of areas where BMPs really are a central amenity

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and then other examples where BMPs are kind of walled off and really unusable and don't have

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a trail around them or anything like that to really call it any sort of amenity.

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In wetlands, we've talked about the wetlands. It's kind of like the RPA. I suppose if you were to build a

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trail close, stuff the wetlands and kind of surround a wetland area with the trail, people can kind of

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to enjoy that natural area, you could put up ecological educational signage and things like

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that to tell people about the importance of wetlands. So I think there's some possible

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opportunities for that sort of thing.

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With regards to BOMP's, I've always wondered this because I've seen dry BOMP's and wet

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BOMP's, does environmental make that decision to make those wet or dry? And the reason

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One way I ask is, aminitizing a drive B on P is like an aminitizing a snake pit.

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When you aminitize a wet B on P, it's upon, you can aerate it, it's nice to look at.

224
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So, is there some standard, the environmental looks at to say this is going to be a drive B

225
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on P versus a wet B on P?

226
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I can probably give you an answer to that, but it's probably best for environmental engineering

227
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actually answer that question.

228
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Okay, thank you.

229
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And nothing else, those who like snake bits.

230
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Just one.

231
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Sure, if I can piggyback.

232
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I'm going to slow it over here.

233
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The words use an enjoyment.

234
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Maybe use, I can see how that would be misleading.

235
00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:50,460
So maybe it's more appropriate to just use the word enjoyment.

236
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Because I would look at.

237
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Go to a state park.

238
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And if you're respectful to park, you stay on the trails.

239
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And you do not walk into the areas.

240
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They do not want you going in.

241
00:23:00,540 --> 00:23:02,700
But you're still enjoying that natural beauty.

242
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that is around the trail. So you can still enjoy a wetland or enjoy a BMP without local

243
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using it, but just having you surround.

244
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:14,740
Great. Great comments.

245
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That's one reason we, in some instances, we've had a 100 kind of, wow, to include that as

246
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part of the community. The idea is, this is maybe a worst case scenario, but the idea where

247
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maybe you'd have some sort of observation deck that looks out over, you know, 300 acre wet ones.

248
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Should that developer get credit for those 300 acres just because they put observation tower up.

249
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We felt that was a bit excessive.

250
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The idea of giving them some credit as to where to draw that line of credit is something we're working on.

251
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In conversations, we had on common area, back two years ago, we'd all kind of landed on the

252
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100th of being a reasonable amount of ability to see into the wooded area or the RPA or wet

253
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wetlands area and give them credit for that enjoyment aspect where a property might be adjacent

254
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to a huge floodplain or RPA, we wanted this still see more improvements and possible within

255
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the project and not give away the farm so to speak by that's all the amenities space you're

256
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going to get for that particular project is a viewpoint of 300 acres of RPA.

257
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It does. I appreciate that train of thought and completely agree with you. We don't need to

258
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go all the way back to gross, but somewhere between that and gross we have a formula that

259
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can be used to give some credit but not for credit.

260
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,940
Yeah, and Mr. Chair, and I guess where I am, I mean,

261
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I know we don't with amenity space, you know,

262
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,420
previously and, you know, we tried to handle it with them

263
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the context of the existing zoning ordinance.

264
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I use just one of those opportunities, though, you know,

265
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for certain items, right, and you know, let's just be

266
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really not, you know, it's the development community that is kind of spearheading the inclusion

267
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,840
of these types of spaces and so forth.

268
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,920
And you know, in certain situations where if we're going to call it an amenity, and

269
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they're truly going to amenitize the space, and we can do that without violating any other

270
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rules of the road, that's one thing.

271
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But I just thought, well, I'm not saying go this direction,

272
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but are there certain items where we just simply want to be

273
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upfront than whatever reasons if it's something that planning

274
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or ultimately the Board of Supervisors feels,

275
00:25:59,980 --> 00:26:04,460
we want to give some sort of a credit to a developer for the inclusion

276
00:26:04,460 --> 00:26:07,420
of a possible land as far as certain calculations concerned.

277
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,520
Okay, let's just be up front and do that.

278
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But then labeling, using the label, amenity space.

279
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,460
And again, it kind of sticks out to me under this, you know, with a BMP.

280
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You know, we can monetize around a BMP.

281
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,460
We can do things to make it more attractive.

282
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,840
But there's probably no reality where we would ever want to encourage

283
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,400
the citizens of the county to go swimming in, truly enjoying the BMP.

284
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,800
All right, that would be bad at multiple levels.

285
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,940
Okay, do we want to label it a amenity space?

286
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:47,420
I'm just throwing it out, I think.

287
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,880
If we're going through all these different categories and definitions,

288
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,160
and not to get into a definition discussion,

289
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:57,700
but maybe there's an opportunity to create some sort of

290
00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:03,860
category that allows the developer for some calculation planning

291
00:27:03,860 --> 00:27:10,320
them to develop work out, but without us truly calling it an amenity as we're defining

292
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,140
amenity space. Great.

293
00:27:16,740 --> 00:27:19,960
But with that, we're going to go into all those qualifying items

294
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:25,640
for amenity space. This is a quick list in front of you right here, but I'm going to go into a few

295
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,940
examples with a little more detail and some visuals as well. So you can kind of see what each one

296
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:37,400
of these items looks like. Our first one is farming in forestry, which would allow the preservation

297
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,040
of agricultural character, and some of our more rural zoning districts, this applies to our

298
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:49,660
RCSR, SN and AR districts only. And this is actually an example from nearby. This is the

299
00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:56,120
Chickahomani Falls development out in Handover County, where they have a community forum that

300
00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:02,300
actually can be used by anybody in the larger residential community. It's a really nice concept. And

301
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:07,000
this is not even really in a rural area, but they've done it really well here. I can imagine, you know,

302
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,080
AR district having something like this and being really successful.

303
00:28:13,050 --> 00:28:15,430
Best management practices, what we are just talking about.

304
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:16,570
So what counts?

305
00:28:16,730 --> 00:28:22,530
The areas surrounding stormwater best management practice BMPs, if they include extra landscaping

306
00:28:22,530 --> 00:28:24,290
and trail improvements are eligible.

307
00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:30,350
For residential BMPs maintained by the county, the surface area inside slopes are actually

308
00:28:30,350 --> 00:28:30,810
excluded.

309
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:36,950
So you can see in this kind of diagram here, everything inside of that red area would not count

310
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:42,790
because that's all part of the side slopes as well as the water surface and then also no

311
00:28:42,790 --> 00:28:48,310
an area enclosed by a fence for count. And so I'll give you a quick example of that.

312
00:28:48,410 --> 00:28:54,410
Here's a view of a BMP where you can see the fencing slide side slopes and the water surface area.

313
00:28:54,850 --> 00:28:59,650
You can't access. There's no trail around any part of this. There is a little bit of landscape,

314
00:28:59,790 --> 00:29:03,650
and you can see a couple trees landscaping within the fence area. But this is an example

315
00:29:03,650 --> 00:29:07,230
one that really wouldn't count and the area around it wouldn't typically count either.

316
00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:11,050
Now if you were to add some improvements to it, some benches, a nice trail,

317
00:29:11,570 --> 00:29:15,050
some of the hard-scape areas of purgler or something, this could turn into a really nice

318
00:29:15,050 --> 00:29:18,530
amenity space. Put a fountain in the middle of the pond too. It could be great.

319
00:29:19,390 --> 00:29:25,210
So now I'll show you an example of one we would count. So in this example there's no fence

320
00:29:25,210 --> 00:29:30,630
surrounding it. Instead we have landscaping with a walking path around the entire perimeter of it.

321
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:37,750
We have a little foot bridge, you can see down the bottom left, and there's a little, a little gazebo out there.

322
00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:40,310
This is in the summer late development. So this is in the county.

323
00:29:42,150 --> 00:29:55,550
The next part is that many of these spaces can even be placed above underground BMPs, but only the area that's the surface area that a many of these space can count, not the full underground BMP if there's no many of the above it.

324
00:29:55,550 --> 00:29:59,590
We're going to see one of the first of these in the county with the Rockwood Square.

325
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:10,160
Shopping Center redevelopment. There's some areas where dog park and even some sport courts pickable courts are going to be placed on top of underground BMPs.

326
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:18,060
I'll be true before you go on. I just wanted to let you know, at the advisory committee meeting, there was a pretty lengthy discussion with the team there.

327
00:30:18,060 --> 00:30:35,360
The difference between how we treat commercial BMPs and residential BMPs, as you know the county, has a policy whereby residential BMPs we take on and do the maintenance and and do those on our own, the commercial BMPs are done on the private side.

328
00:30:35,860 --> 00:30:47,060
And what you find is that the commercial BMPs are much more easily amenatized that if you think of some of the shopping centers, they usually do a pretty good job putting fountains and things around them.

329
00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:53,020
So, if they do monetize them in commercial areas, the entirety of the BMP counts, the water surface area.

330
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:59,240
We have a nice one out here on Route 10. If you know where that bank is, at the corner of 10 in Lowery,

331
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:05,440
there's a little bridge across the BMP, there's a little sitting area. All of that would count as a Mindy space under ZOMOD.

332
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,480
And that's different from how we treat the residential BMPs.

333
00:31:09,620 --> 00:31:15,740
As we treat them now, just in how they're designed in the residential areas, if they're walled off, we're not going to count them.

334
00:31:15,740 --> 00:31:21,520
if they are immunatized, like you showed the BMP on that last example, that one would count.

335
00:31:21,980 --> 00:31:26,940
So the team did, the advisory team did think that, you know, it would be nice if both

336
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:31,220
residential and commercial BMPs could be counted the same way, but that would be predicated

337
00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:37,340
upon us treating them the same way. So treating the commercial ones like the residential ones.

338
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,420
So that's one of the things where we're going to continue having discussions with our partners in

339
00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:47,980
on for their policy and what is acceptable to them on residential BMPs and what's not because

340
00:31:47,980 --> 00:31:53,100
if the county does not want to maintain those items within that fence line or those amenities

341
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:57,560
then we're not going to count that space if they don't want to do that so that's some ongoing

342
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,500
discussions we still need to have.

343
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,120
So kind of cut to the chase on the residential BMPs

344
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:16,060
Is there a scenario where is there any scenario on the residential side where the county and the taxpayers of

345
00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:24,820
Chester County are paying to maintain it that we would classify it as an amenity space and give the developer credit for

346
00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:29,240
it

347
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,620
Yeah, no, not not as it's written today

348
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:36,960
Correct, so any any that we would

349
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:46,100
So, any BMP that we would give credit to a developer for their various calculations would

350
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:56,380
be predicated under the fact that they are obligated in perpetuity to manage that BMP.

351
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,620
And we will ensure that at no point in time can that developer wave their hands and turn

352
00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:11,800
backer over to the county to take over after we've given them credits for it.

353
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:17,900
That's part of the rub and what we're still working on. I think in a perfect world we'd

354
00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:24,460
like to see it where there could be some sort of set up within the HOA that would maintain

355
00:33:24,460 --> 00:33:32,380
the BMP requirements and so forth into perpetuity. I think the unfortunately some of the history

356
00:33:32,380 --> 00:33:49,660
Chesterfield has been that even in some of those situations, the H.O.A. has not had the funds to be able to maintain it properly and then, you know, the county had to come to the rescue and try to repair or help maintain that BMP.

357
00:33:49,780 --> 00:34:00,440
I think that's the concern environmental engineering has is you can be in the long run, be additional requirement for them, maintenance requirements for them.

358
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:12,240
I still think we should be able to get to some sort of way that we could address a long-term

359
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:22,800
maintenance of a well-designed, well-omenetized BMP that could be the responsibility of the

360
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:30,800
HOA, the developer initially, and at some point that we overall HOA, but we still have some work

361
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:42,440
to do with environmental engineering and county administration as to the long-term trend for

362
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,460
BMP maintenance.

363
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,140
That makes sense.

364
00:34:45,140 --> 00:34:47,580
I mean, we'd love to get there.

365
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:54,920
Well, I was just going to say, because I'm aware, I am aware of zoning cases that have occurred

366
00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:03,520
over the past, you know, and these, these unfolded probably actually before your 10, where

367
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:09,860
we had a case that went through zoning, dirt was moved, made it to the entire process,

368
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:17,620
multiple BMPs on the project, and it was, we're going to take care of it, there are

369
00:35:17,620 --> 00:35:22,820
amenity space by law, through some fountains up, and I mean, I'm pretty sure the last

370
00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:30,680
C.O. and the neighborhood was signed and next thing I know, you know, I'm hearing from back then Mrs.

371
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:31,820
J. Cole that,

372
00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:39,430
or five, massive BMPs were being turned back over to the county to have to maintain.

373
00:35:40,090 --> 00:35:47,050
And to me, that's a taxpayer subsidized credit to the development community that I'm not comfortable.

374
00:35:48,890 --> 00:35:50,630
Mr. Chair, I can speak on this slightly.

375
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:56,470
So, I want to say a couple years ago, some of our community came from being Mr. Carroll concerning

376
00:35:56,470 --> 00:36:01,910
the BMP in their neighborhood, and they were treating it as an amenity, as Lake and

377
00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:02,310
why not.

378
00:36:02,750 --> 00:36:04,290
But the BMP needed cleaned out.

379
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:10,550
Now, what people may not be aware of in this room is the HOAs or whoever is in that neighborhood

380
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:15,590
has to pay a stormwater management fee per BMP fund that's supposed to be for the maintenance

381
00:36:15,590 --> 00:36:19,610
of the BMP funds and they're supposed to be cleaned out on a regular basis by the county.

382
00:36:19,610 --> 00:36:22,750
And that's part of the agreement between environmental engineering and the county.

383
00:36:23,610 --> 00:36:29,030
So the county does accumulate money over a period of time to do the clean operation of these.

384
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:34,430
However, their clean-out operation is an necessity based not a need-based.

385
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:41,150
So if the BMP is filling up a sediment and it's draining properly and behaving how it's supposed to,

386
00:36:41,370 --> 00:36:47,210
the county is not going to clean that out until the sediment gets to a point where it is in a freeing with that operation.

387
00:36:47,210 --> 00:37:00,270
So, how some of her came to me, Mr. Carroll, was they wanted some of the sediment cleaned out so it would appear cleaner, but it's in reality, it's a BMP, it's not an amenity and people have to understand that.

388
00:37:00,990 --> 00:37:12,610
So, I think the choice is when we look at these BMPs is if people want them to be an amenity, they're going to have to take control and do the maintenance to keep it as pristine as they want it to be to be an amenity.

389
00:37:12,610 --> 00:37:16,930
Otherwise, it's a BOMP, it's going to operate the way it's supposed to, it's going to be

390
00:37:16,930 --> 00:37:20,930
murky, it's going to have sediment in it, and it's going to be there what it's supposed to be for,

391
00:37:21,250 --> 00:37:25,770
which is the whole of the water, allowed to be treated, allow stuff to settle and let it drain off.

392
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:31,610
So that's one of the things I just wanted to kind of put it out there with my experience with this.

393
00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:34,460
That's it.

394
00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:38,840
Okay, any other questions on this?

395
00:37:40,450 --> 00:37:41,550
Okay, fun rolling then.

396
00:37:44,770 --> 00:37:48,390
Next, we'll talk about a buffers that are not required by ordinance.

397
00:37:48,390 --> 00:38:04,370
For example, the plan on the screen shows a 50 foot buffer that's provided between a new subdivision that was containing 5500 square foot minimum lots and then adjacent to existing neighborhoods with much larger lots.

398
00:38:05,230 --> 00:38:09,470
The ordinance today does not require a buffer between two single-family districts.

399
00:38:10,690 --> 00:38:15,210
However, in this particular case, this buffer was offered to minimize the impacts of those

400
00:38:15,210 --> 00:38:18,990
much smaller lots, next to much larger budding lots, and these established neighborhoods.

401
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:24,190
A sample of the Zoning Condition associated with this project is shown down at the bottom

402
00:38:24,190 --> 00:38:24,930
here.

403
00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:29,130
I know Mr. Sloan is very familiar with this particular case traditions of America.

404
00:38:30,830 --> 00:38:34,370
We think that should be credited if it's not something you're required to do, and it's

405
00:38:34,370 --> 00:38:36,010
offered up as an additional protection.

406
00:38:36,250 --> 00:38:37,650
I think that's a good thing.

407
00:38:37,650 --> 00:38:46,390
The second provision here in the buffer section address is situations where a development goes above and beyond the typically required buffer.

408
00:38:47,010 --> 00:38:54,590
So let's say for example, a project offers up a 70 foot wide buffer instead of the 50 foot wide buffer is required.

409
00:38:55,210 --> 00:38:59,370
We would allow a credit for that additional 25 feet above the 50 foot requirement.

410
00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:03,740
Next we'll go to community gardens.

411
00:39:04,780 --> 00:39:09,580
These are pretty obvious, site operated and maintained by individual group or, you know,

412
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,680
individual to cultivate trees, herbs, fruits, vegetables, flowers, other foliage for personal

413
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,320
use, consumption, donation, or even off-site sale, vitamins, growing the site, and I'll

414
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,860
say that again, off-site sale, not sale, in the residential communities.

415
00:39:23,740 --> 00:39:28,180
This is an example from Chesterfield, the towns at Nottingham, a really nicely designed one

416
00:39:28,180 --> 00:39:31,780
with a given a garden tool shed and some of these

417
00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:34,380
have greenhouse as to, so really nice humidity spaces.

418
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:37,900
Next is a courtyard.

419
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:40,420
This is a contiguous open area that's surrounded

420
00:39:40,420 --> 00:39:42,580
on at least three sides by building walls

421
00:39:42,580 --> 00:39:44,300
with entryways and sidewalks.

422
00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:47,260
These are typical of our town home communities

423
00:39:47,260 --> 00:39:50,080
and some of our two over two condo communities.

424
00:39:53,610 --> 00:39:54,810
Frontage landscaping.

425
00:39:55,330 --> 00:39:58,010
We're looking at these either buffers

426
00:39:58,010 --> 00:40:01,330
or perimeter landscaping, long major roads like collectors

427
00:40:01,330 --> 00:40:06,510
or materials, and that's if, you know, they meet the landscaping and screening standards of

428
00:40:06,510 --> 00:40:10,610
those buffers or perimeter landscape areas, but include sidewalks or shared use paths.

429
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:15,370
I will say I'll note that we do want to work on this one a little bit more in draft three.

430
00:40:15,890 --> 00:40:20,790
So far, we have sidewalks as being included, and we are thinking of looking at just counting

431
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:25,550
shared use paths in these areas as opposed to sidewalks, because a shared use path is going to be

432
00:40:25,550 --> 00:40:30,650
an upgrade over a typically required five foot feed-out sidewalk. So also, we want to look at

433
00:40:30,650 --> 00:40:34,790
additional landscape and that could be placed in the right of way if you dot's going to approve that.

434
00:40:35,010 --> 00:40:42,750
As ways to kind of soup up these areas a little more to make them true amenities and not just allow an amenity credit for something that's really required.

435
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:52,940
A green, this is a common open space that's really kind of an unstructured recreational or special events kind of area that can be programmed.

436
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,760
You could have celebrations or neighborhood gatherings here.

437
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:03,500
Really just green with some, you know, maybe a trail going around to their sidewalk and some trees.

438
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,300
This example is actually from Western Henrico County.

439
00:41:08,140 --> 00:41:13,760
I've driven past you many times and seen, you know, citizens from this community out there golfing or walking their dogs

440
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,300
and it's just kind of a nice open green for that.

441
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:19,800
Next a green way.

442
00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:25,640
Really, this is just a connection of multiple of our amenity spaces in Zoma.

443
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:30,820
And the thing is, it's just in more of a linear fashion and connected by one or more trails.

444
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,280
The example here, so I keep using Mr. Sloan's great examples.

445
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,200
This is from the White Oak Greenway in Kerry, North Carolina.

446
00:41:39,620 --> 00:41:43,100
You can see on the map here, this greenway connects natural areas.

447
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,800
It connects neighborhoods. It connects parks, larger parks.

448
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,540
It connects schools, libraries, all sorts of things.

449
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,080
So that's a really greenway.

450
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,260
And if you think about a larger master plan community,

451
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,920
think of Rosalind, you know, the Rosalind overlay.

452
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,800
We envisioned a larger linear park or greenway

453
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,500
through that development.

454
00:42:04,740 --> 00:42:06,480
Next to herbscape pedestrian areas,

455
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,300
these are typically located adjacent to,

456
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,560
are more urban style buildings

457
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,220
and are U.R. districts or mixed use districts.

458
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,760
These should not encroach on a required sidewalks

459
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,080
or bikeways, but they really are designed

460
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,980
to serve and support adjacent uses through improvements like seating areas, planters and

461
00:42:25,980 --> 00:42:30,920
fountains. I think the important thing to note about these hard-scape pedestrian areas is

462
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,440
it's a little more than just a sidewalk. They're often a wider, they're behind the sidewalk,

463
00:42:35,580 --> 00:42:39,660
they're adjacent to buildings, they're adjacent to green spaces. They have fixtures that are

464
00:42:39,660 --> 00:42:44,820
more permanent, even though sometimes you can use them for temporary outdoor dining, moved chairs

465
00:42:44,820 --> 00:42:50,020
and tables out. The good thing is you can accommodate multiple uses in these spaces. Once again,

466
00:42:50,020 --> 00:42:51,520
wider than your typical sidewalk.

467
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:53,440
These are larger kind of patio areas.

468
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,420
The next one is dedication, a land for public facilities.

469
00:43:01,180 --> 00:43:03,780
A good example here is the Tomahawk Creek Middle School,

470
00:43:03,860 --> 00:43:04,360
that's pictured.

471
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,280
That was actually something that was dedicated

472
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,120
as part of the larger centerpoint development.

473
00:43:10,820 --> 00:43:13,920
We also have some precedent in the Rosalind overlay

474
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,700
where we are allowing a linear park or greenway

475
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:18,740
to be dedicated and also count

476
00:43:18,740 --> 00:43:21,580
towards each development tracks, common area requirement.

477
00:43:22,580 --> 00:43:25,600
I will note also that for dedications like this,

478
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,180
a road would not count.

479
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:29,980
So we're not going to allow roads to be cut out of this dedication.

480
00:43:32,220 --> 00:43:34,380
Next, there are LED or low impact development.

481
00:43:34,940 --> 00:43:37,980
These are typically special stormwater treatment systems

482
00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:40,240
that are not typically utilized here in Chesterfield.

483
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:41,760
We don't really see these often.

484
00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:45,780
They're often more costly than your typical stormwater basin,

485
00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:50,440
can really be a nice amenity space as you see in this example and kind of kill two birds of

486
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:55,680
one stone. Your treat your stormwater, but also creating a nice separation and landscape area.

487
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,660
Next, we have some allowance for parking areas, but they are specifically the parking areas

488
00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:08,500
that are associated with an amenity space. So the example here shows the Amberly neighborhood.

489
00:44:08,780 --> 00:44:13,120
You can see we have a clubhouse in a pool. By ordinance those are required to be parked,

490
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:18,060
which is sometimes really arbitrary in a subdivision,

491
00:44:18,220 --> 00:44:19,180
where you've got a lot of parking,

492
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,320
it's just the neighbors mostly walk in there,

493
00:44:21,340 --> 00:44:23,020
but we do offer those parking areas.

494
00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:25,520
If there are events and things people want to drive to them,

495
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:26,980
or if you're on the other side of the neighborhood,

496
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:27,980
they want to drive to.

497
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:30,560
But we are allowing a credit for that.

498
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,400
Also in parking areas, landscape areas

499
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,180
with connecting walkways or other amenities could count.

500
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,680
This is actually an example at a chest peak Virginia,

501
00:44:43,260 --> 00:44:44,560
done in the Hemp the Road area.

502
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:50,640
We have this really nice landscape kind of paper walkway that connects two sides of a large shopping center together

503
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:56,080
Provides a little out, you know, we'll space for some trees and landscaping between all the parking areas

504
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:11,740
Pedestrian biking paths, not including sidewalks. These really connect internally or externally. These can be paved or unpaved, pretty self-explanatory here. These are all examples from the boulders area in Chesterfield.

505
00:45:14,490 --> 00:45:25,870
Another one is a pedestrian pass throughs. We have very few of these in the county so far, but as we, you know, see more kind of mixed use developments like spring line pop up, we could see a lot more of these.

506
00:45:26,450 --> 00:45:32,770
We have some requirements for them to help break up bulky masses of buildings in our ordinance in our U.R. and M.E. districts.

507
00:45:33,570 --> 00:45:37,750
These are really paved walkways that are allowing direct access from one side of a building to another.

508
00:45:38,370 --> 00:45:40,330
They're intended for public use typically.

509
00:45:41,970 --> 00:45:47,270
And they really connect, you know, parking areas to shopping areas or parking areas to green spaces and that sort of thing.

510
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:49,670
This is an example out of Maryland in Rockville.

511
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:55,330
Really nice when you can see the public art and kind of decorations and some storefront windows in there

512
00:45:55,330 --> 00:45:57,590
People put tables and tears out there for outdoor dining

513
00:45:57,590 --> 00:46:01,390
They even do art shows in these with little easels with art on. It's pretty nice

514
00:46:03,770 --> 00:46:10,890
The next door plazas these are hard-scaped in hard-scaped areas with seating and other amenities such as landscaping fountains and public art

515
00:46:11,450 --> 00:46:16,150
They function as gathering places and can also incorporate a variety of non-fermented activities

516
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:20,330
Like vendors, you know farmers markets and things like that

517
00:46:20,330 --> 00:46:22,910
This examples from our mill works in the Lothian.

518
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,820
Next, active recreation.

519
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:29,460
This includes a lot of different items.

520
00:46:29,580 --> 00:46:32,480
It can be playgrounds, swimming pools, club houses,

521
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,760
dog parks, pavilion's community rooms, all sorts of

522
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,520
sport and athletic courts, pickable courts, tennis courts,

523
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:39,760
all sorts of things.

524
00:46:40,860 --> 00:46:43,740
And these are all actually examples from Chesterfield County.

525
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:46,560
The bottom one is from the bottom left is

526
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,180
Townsets with Creek, top right is from charter colony.

527
00:46:49,180 --> 00:46:52,420
the bottom right is from the boulders like side apartments.

528
00:46:55,290 --> 00:47:05,630
Next, passive recreation. You know, we talked about pathways a little earlier, but this is sort of a accessible open space.

529
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:18,270
It's just a really just a forest and a neighborhood. It's an area where trees were preserved, but it's accessible to the community. You see the red arrow there. It is a 10 foot wide asphalt path to allow access to this.

530
00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:22,970
path to either dead end at that spot or it can curl around through there and give you nice walking

531
00:47:22,970 --> 00:47:27,770
areas. These are kind of great areas we had grown up as kids when you could go out and

532
00:47:27,770 --> 00:47:31,850
the random woods in your neighborhood and build a tree house or chase each other around

533
00:47:31,850 --> 00:47:36,510
dig holes and stuff. So kind of a nice feature to have that you know seen the disappear these days.

534
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:44,700
Next recreational equipment and trailer parking. This is something where if improved you know

535
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:48,060
but screen properly and not very visible,

536
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,180
we'd like to be able to monetize it.

537
00:47:50,220 --> 00:47:53,000
This is actually an example from the Wood Lake neighborhood.

538
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,320
This is their boat and storage area.

539
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:57,680
And once again, talking about the screen,

540
00:47:57,780 --> 00:47:59,980
you'll know how setback this is,

541
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,120
you can see there's an angled driveway,

542
00:48:02,620 --> 00:48:05,260
so when you drive by, you can not see into this,

543
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:05,960
which is great.

544
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,100
You don't even know it's there.

545
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:09,360
But we think we should give some credit for that.

546
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,140
I think that's also a good solution to some of our

547
00:48:12,140 --> 00:48:16,540
parking issues with people parking in their front yards. So if they had more places in their

548
00:48:16,540 --> 00:48:20,100
community to park them, my help with that code enforcement issue, we'd run into as well.

549
00:48:22,690 --> 00:48:27,350
Getting back to that resource protection, the RPA discussion we had earlier.

550
00:48:28,770 --> 00:48:36,750
This is an example of how we count that. So we are counting 100 foot of an RPA if you bring a trail

551
00:48:36,750 --> 00:48:45,230
into it. Also note that we did bring that over from our previous common area, amendment 2 years ago.

552
00:48:45,630 --> 00:48:51,470
So this is not really a change. Another thing to point out is if you had an RPA,

553
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:55,730
let's say you have 100 feet of RPA and one side of the stream and 100 feet on the other side.

554
00:48:55,830 --> 00:49:00,630
If you were to put a trail on both sides of that stream, you could get that full 200 foot credit.

555
00:49:01,370 --> 00:49:04,930
But I just want to point to this example here. This is once again. I'm going to use this example

556
00:49:04,930 --> 00:49:06,550
a couple of times today, because it's pretty good one.

557
00:49:07,170 --> 00:49:10,030
The Rockwood Square Shopping Center redeveloped

558
00:49:10,030 --> 00:49:12,970
and the whole southern portion of that along the Hornet's

559
00:49:12,970 --> 00:49:16,990
run stream was able to have a shared use path placed in it

560
00:49:16,990 --> 00:49:20,190
because there's some old sewer easements in that area.

561
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:23,030
And there was a kind of natural clearing there already.

562
00:49:23,370 --> 00:49:27,050
And so they're able to almost get the very, you know,

563
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:29,410
the full percentage of that RPA.

564
00:49:29,570 --> 00:49:31,870
There's some little kind of yellow areas to the south

565
00:49:31,870 --> 00:49:33,650
that are outside of that 100 foot arc,

566
00:49:33,650 --> 00:49:36,090
but otherwise they got most of the credit for this.

567
00:49:36,330 --> 00:49:38,050
And it's going to turn into a really nice,

568
00:49:38,050 --> 00:49:40,030
somewhat of a greenway system for that area.

569
00:49:43,130 --> 00:49:44,990
Next rooftop amenities, this is something

570
00:49:44,990 --> 00:49:46,790
that we didn't really consider before.

571
00:49:48,490 --> 00:49:50,930
Obviously, community accessible spaces

572
00:49:50,930 --> 00:49:53,590
that are designed to facilitate social interaction

573
00:49:53,590 --> 00:49:55,790
on the upper floors or rooftops of buildings.

574
00:49:56,430 --> 00:49:59,310
Think of terrorist spaces, restaurants, pools,

575
00:49:59,590 --> 00:50:01,410
community gardens, that sort of thing.

576
00:50:01,930 --> 00:50:03,290
The example in the top right is actually

577
00:50:03,290 --> 00:50:05,030
the dominion building at downtown Richmond.

578
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:07,970
They did a fantastic job on that. It's just beautiful.

579
00:50:10,610 --> 00:50:24,790
Next roundabouts and I'm not going to say these are all roundabouts. We are not just counting roundabouts. These must have some sort of public or component or multiple methods of amenities like walking paths, sidewalks, trails,

580
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:27,730
Fountain's landscape and that sort of thing.

581
00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:30,570
So you won't see your typical roundabouts

582
00:50:30,570 --> 00:50:32,010
be counted towards amenity space.

583
00:50:32,190 --> 00:50:33,590
It's going to have to be something

584
00:50:33,590 --> 00:50:36,450
improved substantially more than that.

585
00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:39,590
Is there a slump?

586
00:50:50,380 --> 00:50:50,420
Apologies.

587
00:50:52,660 --> 00:50:54,060
I know I should probably know the answer to this,

588
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,560
but I don't, perhaps Commissioner Owens has some expertise

589
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:58,380
in the space.

590
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,940
So developer comes in, we've got a road network

591
00:51:02,940 --> 00:51:04,560
that we're going to turn over to the state.

592
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,580
This is sitting in the middle of it. Who's responsible for the ongoing maintenance of it?

593
00:51:09,380 --> 00:51:12,600
It would have to be the developer, but they would have to have a

594
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,780
easement from BDOT to do that. Just like we've seen signage for neighborhoods like

595
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,440
over there in Brandermill, we've seen signage in the middle of Roundabout,

596
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:27,280
and seen what are true at Arboretum. They have to get an easement from BDOT for maintenance,

597
00:51:27,460 --> 00:51:32,440
and it also typically says that a BDOT has to come in there and do work. They can plow through your

598
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:39,840
time take it out and you as the HOA or developer are responsible to reinstall it.

599
00:51:47,060 --> 00:51:57,940
Do we require a developer to get the easement from VDOT for any guaranteed period or they

600
00:51:57,940 --> 00:52:04,660
required to maintain that easement for any particular period of time for us to get credit

601
00:52:04,660 --> 00:52:05,300
to it?

602
00:52:05,300 --> 00:52:09,340
It would have to be continuous for them to be credited for meta-de-space.

603
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:11,740
I actually do not know something about this.

604
00:52:11,740 --> 00:52:12,200
I've got to.

605
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,940
So, these particular things are in the V dot right away.

606
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:22,160
So, if you, as an outside entity, outside of V dot, want to monetize it or do anything like that for these,

607
00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:29,100
you have to put up a surety bond and a surety bond is kept in perpetuity from the time you put anything on that,

608
00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:33,500
other than just the dirt and grass, until you remove it and put it back into an original state.

609
00:52:33,500 --> 00:52:38,740
So if you wanted to do some kind of public art or something like this, they would tell you the amount of the

610
00:52:38,740 --> 00:52:44,200
Shirty bond that you have to put up and give you permit to do the work, and then that Shirty bond will stay in their

611
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:48,660
perpetuity until you decide to take this artwork off and return it back to the grass state.

612
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:50,920
That's my understanding as well.

613
00:52:51,240 --> 00:53:01,700
And as a county, we have the processes in place so that all of this is required to occur

614
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:07,130
to justify the credit

615
00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:10,210
for all of the stuff that we're doing on the front end.

616
00:53:10,550 --> 00:53:10,750
Correct.

617
00:53:10,970 --> 00:53:13,330
You'd have to go through the plans or your process and beat up,

618
00:53:13,470 --> 00:53:15,270
but have to actually agree to this.

619
00:53:17,060 --> 00:53:18,660
Otherwise, they'd be in violation of their

620
00:53:18,660 --> 00:53:19,180
Mending space.

621
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:19,560
Exactly.

622
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:21,600
If they're counting it, because if that goes away,

623
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:22,980
then they don't meet their requirement.

624
00:53:23,260 --> 00:53:24,460
They're more in their violation of zoning.

625
00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:32,520
As we go through this, just,

626
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:39,680
I'm just recollecting on what I've seen over the past nine years

627
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,480
and intentions don't always turn into reality,

628
00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:45,480
so that's why I ask these questions,

629
00:53:45,780 --> 00:53:50,320
because I have seen cases that have come before this body

630
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,280
and were approved, and were approved.

631
00:53:54,020 --> 00:53:55,820
And, you know, some of it's at the fault of the commission,

632
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,960
because we allowed for general, unspecific language

633
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,720
and what we saw built on the ground

634
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:06,900
isn't what was envisioned or even sold

635
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:08,580
during the zoning process.

636
00:54:08,580 --> 00:54:22,040
So as we go through these things, what are we labeling as an amenity? Or is it simply, you know, we're doing something to trade off space, you know, whatever the antenna is I just want to make sure that

637
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:27,800
Right, you know, you have an opportunity to get really specific in this stuff and so if we need to

638
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:38,860
It should be noted, you know, a lot of the details of what is being counted as amenity space would be happening at the site plan level, not at the zoning level.

639
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:46,800
Could show a conceptual plan showing this amenity, you know, over on the right side of the property, but as it

640
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:54,800
And maybe before they finish all their design, it's moved, it's location or maybe they're

641
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,400
using something else, is meet that amenity space requirement.

642
00:54:59,220 --> 00:55:07,180
Some of that is going to happen at the site plan level of detail, not at the zoning level.

643
00:55:07,460 --> 00:55:14,420
You'll be agreeing to having that, having to meet that percentage of amenity space with

644
00:55:14,420 --> 00:55:22,160
zoning that they're requesting with so-mind, the make sense, so I mean it's not going to be

645
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:27,320
not every detail will be provided you all at the time of zoning as to where and how they're

646
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:33,400
going to do their amenities space. They're just on the hook to do 10% or 5% or whatever's in the

647
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:38,020
ordinance for that particular zoning district to meet that amenities space requirement and they have

648
00:55:38,020 --> 00:55:47,060
a whole list of menu of elements that Drew's going through to kind of pick from to do what

649
00:55:47,060 --> 00:55:48,360
they want to do.

650
00:55:49,060 --> 00:55:49,200
All right.

651
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:50,680
Mr. Chair.

652
00:55:51,140 --> 00:55:51,320
All right.

653
00:55:51,380 --> 00:55:54,040
But any since you're up in the door, I'm going to walk through it.

654
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:55,840
I would just keep holding my door.

655
00:55:57,180 --> 00:56:02,300
So I have now sat up here for nine years and I've seen pictures of that.

656
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,080
This is going to be the amenity space working provide to the folks of our development.

657
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:15,140
around about. Okay, there's bottom one. I don't mean literally the round, but we are

658
00:56:15,140 --> 00:56:20,820
presented with beautiful amenity space round about blah, blah, blah,

659
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:26,460
fast forward four years that developments under construction in the amenity space is

660
00:56:26,460 --> 00:56:30,850
forced in land in the back. It's not that.

661
00:56:35,390 --> 00:56:37,490
So the intent of us when we're handling

662
00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:45,530
certain things from a zoning standpoint and what we're sold on as what we're trying

663
00:56:45,530 --> 00:56:51,030
to pass from a zoning case and the members of the Board of Supervisors truly do depend

664
00:56:51,030 --> 00:56:57,950
upon us to do everything at our level to make sure whatever is being conceptually presented

665
00:56:57,950 --> 00:57:05,650
to the citizens of the county is what actually gets built or as close as we can, obviously

666
00:57:05,650 --> 00:57:11,390
we come into situations where we want to put an amenity space here, and we come back and

667
00:57:11,390 --> 00:57:15,450
probably previously know that's actually wetlands, we really can't amenitize whatever it

668
00:57:15,450 --> 00:57:15,770
is.

669
00:57:16,010 --> 00:57:21,950
And there's some tweets and justments are one thing, but there have been scenarios and I can

670
00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:31,960
take you to cases where it comes in the front door with lots of great renderings, but it

671
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:40,240
out the back door with whatever leftover land the developer didn't need, that becomes the

672
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:47,580
amenity space. And so as we go through this process, I want to make sure that we look at things

673
00:57:47,580 --> 00:58:01,920
sometimes through those lenses. What are the unintended consequences? You know, we don't need

674
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:10,060
of the MPs, with walkways and fountains and everything else, and that's what's sold to the public.

675
00:58:10,900 --> 00:58:19,920
And if we're going to count that stuff as a truly amenity space, it's not something that the cost of the maintenance should ever come back on the taxpayers for.

676
00:58:22,540 --> 00:58:30,480
And you know, it's a little bit of a question, granted, I'm not going to go down here, but if the developers getting credit for something,

677
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:37,160
but then the ongoing cost of maintaining it gets transferred to the HOA, which then is

678
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:40,220
an affordability issue for the folks living there,

679
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:43,740
these are the things that concern

680
00:58:43,740 --> 00:58:45,660
me with us.

681
00:58:46,060 --> 00:58:54,140
I want to help assure you, the idea that if someone came in with a conceptual site plan that showed

682
00:58:54,140 --> 00:58:59,480
item A is kind of the focal point of their project and that was their amenity kind of feature

683
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:06,040
that they were really pushing, and then at time of site plan, that particular item has completely

684
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:14,300
disappeared from their proposed site plan. I would think that renders another review of

685
00:59:14,300 --> 00:59:20,500
that project in that zoning case to amend that concept plan who be now what they're proposing

686
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:28,940
if it was sold to be that was the major element of their case. So again, it's apples and oranges

687
00:59:28,940 --> 00:59:33,620
to some extent. And we have to, maybe we have to do a better job from a staff perspective

688
00:59:33,620 --> 00:59:38,400
if there is something that is a substantial change from what was shown in the conceptual

689
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:44,440
site plan, to what actually is being brought in by the site at the site high and time that

690
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,340
we've missed something.

691
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:54,060
That's on us maybe to do a better job and inform you all and make that

692
00:59:54,060 --> 00:59:57,880
in a minute. I don't know how to necessarily um

693
01:00:00,210 --> 01:00:16,250
Cardify, zomod to get more to what you're speaking of. Other than we are going to be trying to get a realistic, conceptual plan of what they're proposing at the time of zoning.

694
01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:24,010
but as you say, things, there will be opportunities, chances are that there will be construction

695
01:00:24,010 --> 01:00:31,150
elements or topographic elements that may make for some tweaking of that design sum

696
01:00:31,150 --> 01:00:31,470
extent.

697
01:00:31,630 --> 01:00:37,470
We don't want to, it's because they move it, you know, a couple of feet, have to require an

698
01:00:37,470 --> 01:00:44,190
amended site plan, but or a concept plan, but I do think you don't want to lose the kind

699
01:00:44,190 --> 01:00:51,410
The major element that's being proposed or sold to the planning commission or to the general public

700
01:00:51,410 --> 01:00:54,150
is kind of evaporates at time of sight plan.

701
01:00:54,270 --> 01:00:55,490
We got to catch that.

702
01:00:56,330 --> 01:00:58,090
Again, I'm this issue.

703
01:00:58,430 --> 01:01:00,050
I'll stop and we can move on.

704
01:01:00,650 --> 01:01:12,050
But again, at this point, my perception is we are giving Zomod a lot of, since some respects,

705
01:01:12,050 --> 01:01:16,850
there's flexibility, but there's also a lot of rigidity to it.

706
01:01:17,830 --> 01:01:24,830
So I just want to make sure that we have thought through that someone doesn't come before

707
01:01:24,830 --> 01:01:30,010
this body on the zoning side with a quote unquote conceptual plan.

708
01:01:30,590 --> 01:01:34,790
In the new world, they don't have to come with to us with as many details as we've gotten

709
01:01:34,790 --> 01:01:37,190
accustomed to seeing in the past, okay?

710
01:01:37,190 --> 01:02:06,250
And then something gets to site plan, and at the end of the day, the only tool site plan has at its disposal is whatever the requirement is of the developer, you know, my concern is it gets to site plan and we've got an aggressive developer, and they say I am obligated to 10% amenity space.

711
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:09,350
And this is where I'm putting it.

712
01:02:09,630 --> 01:02:11,610
Is site plan literally in a position

713
01:02:11,610 --> 01:02:14,730
then to be able to say now?

714
01:02:16,730 --> 01:02:18,870
Or when we find ourselves down the road going,

715
01:02:19,130 --> 01:02:20,850
well, we never leave out through this very carefully.

716
01:02:21,970 --> 01:02:25,630
And we're going to have to approve these because under the new ordinance,

717
01:02:26,770 --> 01:02:30,710
there's a space requirement, not, you know,

718
01:02:30,770 --> 01:02:32,190
we're going to have to make sure that there's

719
01:02:32,190 --> 01:02:34,810
proper conditions on how the amenities are going to be

720
01:02:34,810 --> 01:02:40,030
and that kind of stuff. So again, we can move on, but I just want to make sure I'll be in really

721
01:02:40,030 --> 01:02:42,450
upfront where I am on these issues.

722
01:02:42,530 --> 01:02:48,490
I think it's a valid point. And honest answer is I think you're going to see in some of the

723
01:02:48,490 --> 01:02:59,510
more remote areas where there isn't a lot of, if it was just a fairly rural or remote location,

724
01:03:00,830 --> 01:03:04,350
there may not be as many details that are being proposed with that straight zoning.

725
01:03:04,810 --> 01:03:13,110
But if it was an end-fill project where there were neighbors and there were more concern as to where all the elements were going to actually fit within their

726
01:03:13,110 --> 01:03:24,150
hundred acres of development or what have you, they're going to have to be providing more of those details before that case is ripe enough to bring before you all for a public hearing.

727
01:03:24,670 --> 01:03:34,050
And you know, they would be the responsibility of the applicant to bring as many details as necessary to satisfy your

728
01:03:34,050 --> 01:03:42,290
your concerns about how that project might be developed over time and the supervisors, of course, too.

729
01:03:44,510 --> 01:03:53,390
I think you're going to see generally kind of a mix of that, but we'll probably be leaning towards trying to get as much detail as we can,

730
01:03:53,730 --> 01:03:58,670
of the general layout that's being proposed with the cases that come forward.

731
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:11,800
So, while we're looking at these roundabouts, so let me present this to you, I'm a developer and I have 19.5 acres of land I'm developing and I need a half acre to get another wallet put on that land.

732
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:22,260
adjacent to me in the public right away is one of these intermediate roundabouts, the ones I like to come Lego roundabouts, lacking yellow blocks that they've bolted to the ground.

733
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:29,540
So I decided, hey, I want to get this other half acre credited so I can get another lot on this.

734
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:35,780
So I'm going to put my profits that I'm going to fix up this round about off-site from my property.

735
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,980
And I want that round about towards my cash profit as an offset.

736
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,760
And now that I've included that as a mini space, I want that half acre to count towards my land.

737
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:52,120
So I get my extra lot now without actually having to have an extra half acre because I'm going to be able to claim that as a mini space.

738
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:53,980
because I've developed it.

739
01:04:54,320 --> 01:05:00,260
Does the roundabout that they're doing have to be contained within the confines of the land

740
01:05:00,260 --> 01:05:01,280
that they are developing?

741
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,400
Because the one we're talking about in referencing Brandermill is not within the confines

742
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:05,920
of the neighborhood.

743
01:05:06,580 --> 01:05:11,180
However, if you have an entire neighborhood, excuse my crude drawing here, if I was a weatherman,

744
01:05:11,300 --> 01:05:12,200
we'd have a blue screen here.

745
01:05:12,740 --> 01:05:14,260
But here is the property.

746
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,260
If we're in the middle of the property and put it around about, that would 100% be in

747
01:05:18,260 --> 01:05:20,240
a minute space if we fixed it up.

748
01:05:20,500 --> 01:05:21,360
Here's our property.

749
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:25,960
and I have one of those Lego roundabouts here and I go, hey, I want to fix this up and make it

750
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:30,100
mountable and I want to put a piece of art in the middle of it. I want that counter this

751
01:05:30,100 --> 01:05:36,180
part of my mini space. Does this allow for that, or does it have to be in the confines of the

752
01:05:36,180 --> 01:05:40,800
area that they're developing as part of their lives? I think it could go, it could go both ways,

753
01:05:40,860 --> 01:05:46,460
honestly. I think if they're building the roundabout and they own the land under it,

754
01:05:46,460 --> 01:05:54,080
And then they extract that street out of the land that becomes V dot right of way, that was their land to begin with and they've dedicated it all.

755
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:55,580
I have no issue with that whatsoever.

756
01:05:56,180 --> 01:06:03,660
I think if there is an existing roundabout that is in the middle of right of way, it is right of way today owned and maintained by V dot.

757
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,840
I would say they wouldn't be able to get credit for that.

758
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:14,780
All right, so we need to make sure we stipulate in these things here that are things that can be done in public right away, such as these roundabouts,

759
01:06:14,780 --> 01:06:25,340
that it needs to be in the confines of the land being developed by the developer so that they don't try to gain some land towards their

760
01:06:25,340 --> 01:06:34,020
developable space by a miniatizing and existing area and some of our development community are pretty crafty.

761
01:06:34,300 --> 01:06:37,020
So I just, I think that's, that's a very good comment.

762
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:46,640
Any other questions on roundabouts?

763
01:06:49,820 --> 01:06:50,940
All right, excellent.

764
01:06:50,940 --> 01:06:55,880
what keep going. This is a square, a pretty self-explanatory as well.

765
01:06:56,580 --> 01:07:01,820
It can be used for events and gatherings. It's often surrounded by streets and

766
01:07:01,820 --> 01:07:06,260
or buildings. Can have a combination of lawn areas, landscaping, seating areas,

767
01:07:07,020 --> 01:07:11,080
always pedestrian accessible. This is a new port news. If you want to go to

768
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:12,900
example of one, here it is.

769
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:17,900
Now I'm going to go into the next portion. We're going to

770
01:07:17,900 --> 01:07:22,360
talk about strategic community space and Mr. Sloan kind of for an answer to

771
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:28,000
question about can I just set aside some woods in the back of my neighborhood? This is what would have

772
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,980
caught that developer. We have a requirement for strategic amenity space. This is your more

773
01:07:33,660 --> 01:07:39,980
your more improved kind of space within that larger amenity space area you're devoting. So this is a

774
01:07:39,980 --> 01:07:44,500
a portion of the amenity space requirement that provides a centralized or other strategic location

775
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:49,780
within the project that has good pedestrian access conveniently serves the majority of the development.

776
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:56,400
We're going to call this SAS for short SAS should provide the community residents with an opportunity for high quality

777
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:04,100
aesthetic and are active out the amenities can be indoors as well if you have your clubhouse or indoor kind of workout rooms and that sort of thing.

778
01:08:05,020 --> 01:08:07,480
We like to think of this as the central focal points of developments.

779
01:08:07,740 --> 01:08:12,080
There really contain greater improvements once again than your typical amenity space.

780
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:16,860
More active recreational uses. It can be a pool or clubhouse like you see here.

781
01:08:16,860 --> 01:08:26,320
However, not asking specifically for pools or buildings in all situations, we have an extensive menu of items for satisfying the strategic amenities space.

782
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:33,500
So we had some concerns from the committee that were requiring everybody to put in a pool on a cloud house, but that's not the case.

783
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:38,000
You still have a full menu of items, which can get you to satisfy the SAS requirement.

784
01:08:39,140 --> 01:08:40,140
Hey, NASA question.

785
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:47,740
So when you talk about a mini space, what about, let's say you have a neighborhood you

786
01:08:49,100 --> 01:08:54,700
have to pay in order to be a part of the pool, so the pool doesn't come with HOA membership.

787
01:08:55,420 --> 01:08:59,240
How does that handle with a mini space? Do we get down to that level?

788
01:08:59,700 --> 01:09:03,140
Are you saying the pool does not, it's not part of the HOA?

789
01:09:03,140 --> 01:09:07,920
Right, it's not not a part of A to A. So, for instance,

790
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,980
a sample, Bartdale, Bartdale started out as having their pools part of the

791
01:09:11,980 --> 01:09:17,120
HOA and the ladies, the pool split off. So, that pool became a private entity.

792
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,120
On the way to become a member of that pool was to pay. Right.

793
01:09:20,140 --> 01:09:21,560
And it never included residents.

794
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:26,700
Yes, we actually have a section about ownership and maintenance that talks about that.

795
01:09:27,180 --> 01:09:31,720
You have to go through first, you have to be approved by the director of planning to be able to cut that free.

796
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:36,160
And we have to also take a look at your overall plan and then say, okay, if you lose this

797
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:39,960
amenity space, are you losing the only required amenity space you have in your community?

798
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:44,760
So a couple different factors we have to look at, but I would not say that if there's a private

799
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:49,560
venue like that, it's not part of the HOA's purview, that should not be counted.

800
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:57,860
Yeah, so just be interested in the kind of seat of language on that, because I know that somebody

801
01:09:57,860 --> 01:09:59,660
could get it through.

802
01:10:01,940 --> 01:10:08,540
I would say, like, site plan and get it through us and then, you know,

803
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:16,100
10, 15 years later, you know, as part of Dell, and it's some other neighborhoods that are

804
01:10:16,100 --> 01:10:28,550
kind of going through that also, how they would use that. The other thing was, I think it was

805
01:10:28,550 --> 01:10:34,570
of woodlake, I think we had their community meeting and they're, they have a new development

806
01:10:34,570 --> 01:10:46,370
that's coming on and they're going to possibly use the woodlake pool in HOA in order to,

807
01:10:46,730 --> 01:10:55,110
so is that a equation that kind of see, you know, with the existing development, then a new

808
01:10:55,110 --> 01:11:01,610
development, how that is there a ratio that's going to speak to that?

809
01:11:02,250 --> 01:11:07,950
No, actually you have to provide your amenity space in your project and satisfy the requirements

810
01:11:07,950 --> 01:11:09,830
of that particular zoning project.

811
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:16,530
So you can't say that I'm going to use my neighboring communities pool to satisfy my requirements

812
01:11:16,530 --> 01:11:17,590
for amenity space.

813
01:11:18,090 --> 01:11:22,530
Now we do have some options that you're going to hear about later down in a few more weeks

814
01:11:22,530 --> 01:11:29,130
about the proper adjustment that allows certain things, but that's for public facilities, it doesn't count

815
01:11:29,130 --> 01:11:34,190
this in that situation. So, you know, we can't have a new development say that we're going to have

816
01:11:34,190 --> 01:11:40,590
our amenities space satisfied, but there may be a situation where you become in addition to woodlake

817
01:11:40,590 --> 01:11:47,350
and woodlake already has, you know, 50 times the amenities space they need. They have an over abundance

818
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:52,310
of the many of these space. We can't look at that, but typically you have to provide them on your

819
01:11:52,310 --> 01:11:58,150
site. Okay. So the other thing, and just to make sure people understand this, and if I'm wrong,

820
01:11:58,270 --> 01:12:03,710
correct me, if we have the developer agree to this, they do their strategic community space,

821
01:12:03,730 --> 01:12:07,470
they have a pool in a clubhouse, and the community is built out fully, gets turned over to

822
01:12:07,470 --> 01:12:12,590
the residents. A year later, they decide they can't keep up with this pool in clubhouse anymore,

823
01:12:12,590 --> 01:12:17,510
and they decide to sell it, they have satisfied the zoning at that point, and that becomes

824
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:21,470
a private transaction, and that doesn't apply to the zoning anymore.

825
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:26,150
So they have to satisfy the zoning, but once the zoning is satisfied, this amount of

826
01:12:26,150 --> 01:12:31,330
these space can be sold off, transitioned, something can be done after it's satisfied.

827
01:12:31,790 --> 01:12:34,450
That's for our ownership and maintenance section comes in the play.

828
01:12:34,510 --> 01:12:37,570
They have to get approval from the director of planning to do that.

829
01:12:37,870 --> 01:12:41,750
We have a couple of different stipulations, and they're going to go over, since we've had

830
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:46,010
a few questions on that. I was going to kind of breeze through that, but we can talk about it a little more when we get to that slide.

831
01:12:46,230 --> 01:12:47,150
Okay, thank you.

832
01:12:47,310 --> 01:12:47,790
Thank you.

833
01:12:48,050 --> 01:12:49,990
Yes, sorry to raise some ways to outgrow.

834
01:12:50,450 --> 01:12:53,390
But I think it's important. Thank you so much.

835
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:56,750
Absolutely. Oh, great questions. I appreciate it.

836
01:12:57,890 --> 01:13:01,670
Okay, so getting back into that strategic community space that kind of more improved,

837
01:13:01,690 --> 01:13:04,750
centrally located space for talking about.

838
01:13:04,750 --> 01:13:18,950
All zoning districts accept the following ones require it, so the districts that it's not required in are the RCS or NBEG and WD districts and they're multiple reasons for that, but they are exempt from it.

839
01:13:19,390 --> 01:13:24,130
Here are the requirements for how to calculate that the SAS strategic community space.

840
01:13:24,270 --> 01:13:26,010
These are in our residential zoning districts.

841
01:13:26,010 --> 01:13:30,770
CCC SN and SU have 0.01 acre of SSP a lot.

842
01:13:31,150 --> 01:13:33,530
So densities of driver here.

843
01:13:34,350 --> 01:13:36,470
TR base is 30% of required.

844
01:13:37,050 --> 01:13:38,850
Amenity space, TR option.

845
01:13:39,050 --> 01:13:41,270
1 is 50% of the required immunity space.

846
01:13:41,570 --> 01:13:46,250
UR base, 30% UR option, 150% UR option.

847
01:13:46,450 --> 01:13:49,690
2 is 75% because it is a more urban kind of context.

848
01:13:50,210 --> 01:13:54,450
So you have less immunity space, but more strategic immunity space.

849
01:13:54,450 --> 01:14:02,670
AR is also back to that that same is the first SNS use at 0.01 acre of SAS per water unit.

850
01:14:04,190 --> 01:14:06,730
Getting into the mixed use commercial employment districts,

851
01:14:07,050 --> 01:14:10,390
MU base is 30% of the overall immunity space,

852
01:14:10,770 --> 01:14:14,790
MU option 150, MU option 2 75% CC base.

853
01:14:14,910 --> 01:14:16,890
We have no requirement for it.

854
01:14:16,890 --> 01:14:19,830
That's the only part of CC that does not require it.

855
01:14:19,830 --> 01:14:21,270
The other two options do.

856
01:14:21,970 --> 01:14:27,230
option one and two, 30% percent percent, EC base. There's no strategic

857
01:14:27,230 --> 01:14:30,470
community space, EC option one, it's 15%.

858
01:14:32,490 --> 01:14:34,110
I'm going to discuss just a

859
01:14:34,110 --> 01:14:37,390
little bit how those calculations have actually changed a little bit. Those

860
01:14:37,390 --> 01:14:40,310
figures and numbers have changed since draft one to draft two. So I'm going to

861
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:45,350
go through that few moments as well. So what qualifies this strategic

862
01:14:45,350 --> 01:14:48,590
community space? Well, we went through a long list of items that qualifies

863
01:14:48,590 --> 01:14:53,710
a community space. Many of them can be slightly more improved as you see in

864
01:14:53,710 --> 01:14:58,210
list, I'm not going to go through all of these, just to save us some time, but we have multiple

865
01:14:58,210 --> 01:14:59,890
improvements that can be done to some of these.

866
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:05,440
Regular amenity space items to turn them into that strategic amenity space. And once again, the location

867
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:10,360
of that is important. Must be in a strategic location, central location, somewhere that takes

868
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:15,500
advantage of a great view of a lake or water body, something like that, entrance to a large

869
01:15:15,500 --> 01:15:18,840
neighborhood, things like that. This service for trust.

870
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:31,480
Do clubhouses count as amenity space? Yes, sir. So if a clubhouse also had a rooftop area, you

871
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:37,520
get double for that right because you already get credit for that building or how is that going to work

872
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:44,520
if structures also have rooftop? Yeah, I would think we would just count it as one building. The rooftop

873
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:50,000
is meant to monetize a building that's not typically an amenity like a residential apartment building

874
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:55,100
with a rooftop pool deck and that or a mixed use building or commercial building like that

875
01:15:55,100 --> 01:15:59,860
example for the dominion building where they added that. It's not already an amenity. It's part

876
01:15:59,860 --> 01:16:05,520
the amenity space required for that building. I wouldn't think we would double count that.

877
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:10,880
Wouldn't a clubhouse be strategic or would it not? Yes, sir. There'd be strategic.

878
01:16:11,440 --> 01:16:17,080
Do I? I think I'm just missing it for else. Double check.

879
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,040
Active recreation is what it's counted under.

880
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,500
Well, we'll note that for Dr. A3 that can clarify that

881
01:16:27,500 --> 01:16:29,340
with the clubhouse counts too.

882
01:16:30,380 --> 01:16:31,800
Yeah, because that active recreation,

883
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:36,340
if you see in the chart on the in ZOMOD and amenity space,

884
01:16:36,420 --> 01:16:38,640
there's a little asterisk by it,

885
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:42,060
and those items are what count towards SAS versus just AS.

886
01:16:42,860 --> 01:16:43,940
And it's right next to there.

887
01:16:45,500 --> 01:16:46,620
Have the questions on this?

888
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:48,060
Excellent.

889
01:16:56,300 --> 01:16:57,880
No longer able to change this slide.

890
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:00,480
Thank you.

891
01:17:04,750 --> 01:17:05,390
That's a better idea.

892
01:17:06,070 --> 01:17:07,410
Mr. Chair, thank you.

893
01:17:07,650 --> 01:17:08,070
I'm sorry.

894
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:10,970
Drought you were going on to another piece with SAS.

895
01:17:12,450 --> 01:17:16,610
So in a more urban, higher density residential area,

896
01:17:17,390 --> 01:17:22,730
is there any scenario where we won't require strategic amenities?

897
01:17:23,730 --> 01:17:25,070
I don't believe so.

898
01:17:25,750 --> 01:17:29,830
Unless it's one of those districts that does not require the SAS.

899
01:17:30,350 --> 01:17:31,230
What's best to do?

900
01:17:31,870 --> 01:17:32,210
Correct.

901
01:17:32,610 --> 01:17:35,750
Less than two acres, those kind of outs we have the exemptions.

902
01:17:35,750 --> 01:18:05,170
So how would planning staff respond to, let's say, a small in-fill case brought to us, perhaps, by better housing coalition, where the goal was to put as many high quality affordable houses on a parcel land, and we would all be in agreement that to add certain space, and so no HOA.

903
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:13,990
right. And we want to keep the caught the ongoing cost to the resident, you know, nice streets,

904
01:18:14,590 --> 01:18:20,970
yards maintain, but that's it. When I want mountains, we don't want tickleball courts, we don't want

905
01:18:20,970 --> 01:18:30,270
liking trails, we don't want any of that. But it's a good affordable housing project that we want

906
01:18:30,270 --> 01:18:36,930
you get through. How do we get that case through with little to no amenity space and no strategic

907
01:18:36,930 --> 01:18:44,070
amenity space in an area that requires it? We have we have the under 20 lots portion that we

908
01:18:44,070 --> 01:18:50,030
talked about before, so if it's a small infill site has less than 20 lots, you're good. If it's

909
01:18:50,030 --> 01:18:54,530
you know more of a multi-family type product, the less than two acres, you don't have to provide it.

910
01:18:55,610 --> 01:18:59,750
There is also the proper adjustment process we're going to be talking about and you know over

911
01:18:59,750 --> 01:19:04,270
next few months too, where there's some opportunity there. So there's a couple different avenues.

912
01:19:05,250 --> 01:19:09,710
We also have a couple zoning districts with larger watts that don't require it too. But if you're

913
01:19:09,710 --> 01:19:14,090
talking about a small site, we're probably going to have to deal with those other the less than 20

914
01:19:14,090 --> 01:19:21,190
watts, the less than two acres kind of criteria. Also, I think, you know, Plaza and squares could be,

915
01:19:21,190 --> 01:19:27,170
you know, a fairly minimal expense. Could be a large green space with a, if there's no

916
01:19:28,770 --> 01:19:33,190
I'm going to get to that in a moment actually, but since you're bringing it up, why not talk about it now?

917
01:19:34,270 --> 01:19:38,450
We do have an option for dedication to a public entity.

918
01:19:39,090 --> 01:19:43,210
So you could build it and then dedicate it to Chesterfield County

919
01:19:43,210 --> 01:19:46,970
as something that parks in recreation or another department maintain.

920
01:19:47,290 --> 01:19:49,190
So there's that option as well.

921
01:19:49,490 --> 01:19:52,150
Therefore, they don't have to have an HOA to maintain it.

922
01:19:54,740 --> 01:20:00,940
We've also talked about considering maybe for draft three looking at some exceptions for affordable housing projects,

923
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:07,560
but you'd have to be careful and define those in a kind of narrow fashion, so that we thought about that too,

924
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:12,960
because one of the things we did here from the committee was that these amenities do add costs to the project,

925
01:20:13,420 --> 01:20:15,300
and those are of course passed on to the homeowner.

926
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:23,700
So that is something we can think about if that's what the commission would like is to explore an exception for affordable housing projects,

927
01:20:23,700 --> 01:20:25,100
To a amenity space.

928
01:20:27,650 --> 01:20:31,970
I think that this is important. I'm sure Commissioner Owens has

929
01:20:32,970 --> 01:20:38,170
vast experience in here, but I mean I'll speak to a speak to a neighborhood like Rivers Band

930
01:20:39,350 --> 01:20:43,470
Where we struggle, right where the association

931
01:20:44,150 --> 01:20:49,710
Just because we want to look nice the fights that we have had to have with V dot

932
01:20:49,710 --> 01:20:54,650
To be able to move the grass and the median on Rivers Bend Boulevard

933
01:20:56,210 --> 01:21:00,630
So, Vida didn't always free willing to want to go do this stuff, right?

934
01:21:00,890 --> 01:21:05,670
I mean, that's part of my concern, just because we've met mapped out a path.

935
01:21:06,250 --> 01:21:09,670
There's always the possibility that this thing gets through zoning and everything else.

936
01:21:09,670 --> 01:21:12,570
And Vida says, no, we're not doing that. We're not going to grant you the easement.

937
01:21:12,690 --> 01:21:17,410
Because with the easement becomes the liability of the guys mowing the grass,

938
01:21:17,550 --> 01:21:20,710
they throw a rock and hit somebody passing car by.

939
01:21:20,710 --> 01:21:26,930
But also it's a neighborhood where, you know, when everything was new and shiny, it was great.

940
01:21:27,710 --> 01:21:36,930
But home under dues are being increased at exponential rates because now it costs $80,000 to redo the swimming pool.

941
01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:44,290
Make sure the tennis courts are up to par, you know, all the stuff, right, even passive equipment.

942
01:21:44,290 --> 01:21:52,670
It comes at significant cause and these neighborhoods that are well-established get to these thresholds,

943
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:59,170
where it's just not realistic for them to be able to maintain them then to Dr. Hilton.

944
01:21:59,390 --> 01:22:03,750
You start getting legitimate conversations because of affordability issues.

945
01:22:04,410 --> 01:22:07,290
They're saying we're either going to shut down the pool, we're going to shut down the clubhouse,

946
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:12,930
we're going to get rid of the tennis courts because we literally can't afford to maintain those anymore.

947
01:22:12,930 --> 01:22:18,250
So we put lots of things in place to create credits on the front end.

948
01:22:19,190 --> 01:22:24,770
That over time, that cost transfers to somebody else, right?

949
01:22:26,010 --> 01:22:31,030
And when we especially go back to the place of anything in the affordable space,

950
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:38,630
we got this thing cannot be passed unless we have a clear way of quite frankly,

951
01:22:38,630 --> 01:22:45,870
stripping out as much cost as we possibly can to enable somebody to put that money into a high-quality

952
01:22:46,850 --> 01:22:50,270
home that it would be passed on to somebody at a affordable price.

953
01:22:50,810 --> 01:22:57,650
I just, we can't have a zoning ordinance that embeds so much cost at the county level.

954
01:22:58,030 --> 01:23:02,390
We'll always have the developments that are perfectly fine doing that because they're being

955
01:23:02,390 --> 01:23:05,910
sold at price points that justify the cost and that kind of stuff.

956
01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:12,430
But, you know, the mid to lower in, the housing we need for police officers and everybody else,

957
01:23:13,330 --> 01:23:17,290
we have to be able to be in a place where we're going to say we're going to build a good quality

958
01:23:17,290 --> 01:23:25,450
house on a nice street, maybe a sidewalk. That's it, because we can keep all of the incidental

959
01:23:25,450 --> 01:23:31,510
calls to a minimum. We can ensure quality, you know, quality development, but all this other stuff,

960
01:23:32,890 --> 01:23:39,530
But at the same time, being able to figure out how we can do density without offering the extra space.

961
01:23:39,570 --> 01:23:44,790
You know, that's part of the dilemma we're having is, you know, how small can that lot get?

962
01:23:46,210 --> 01:23:56,050
We still have quite enjoyment of your particulars, you know, a lot.

963
01:23:56,050 --> 01:24:03,390
clear-foot lot. The idea of having an area that kids could go kick-a-ball and other than their

964
01:24:03,390 --> 01:24:11,070
small backyard or their small front yard. The idea of trying to get some sort of common open

965
01:24:11,070 --> 01:24:20,150
space, amenity space, as we're calling it, is something we felt was an important element

966
01:24:20,150 --> 01:24:26,630
of ZOMOD where we've tried to expand the menu of a

967
01:24:26,630 --> 01:24:32,410
amenity space and even to some extent strategic amenity space to have lower cost

968
01:24:32,410 --> 01:24:36,150
kind of elements to be added that could be

969
01:24:36,730 --> 01:24:40,310
you know done and not be swimming pools or club houses

970
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:45,190
or tennis court expenses it would be you know just

971
01:24:45,190 --> 01:24:50,330
a field or having a trail around the perimeter.

972
01:24:52,730 --> 01:24:57,430
So, as these lots get smaller, the need for

973
01:24:57,430 --> 01:25:05,190
having some of that common space staff felt was an important thing to try to include in

974
01:25:05,870 --> 01:25:12,150
Zoma. I'd be interested in where that, in your opinion, where that line should be drawn,

975
01:25:12,150 --> 01:25:20,320
and maybe that's where we need to craft, you know, a better definition of where, you know, many

976
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:30,900
space should be required and not be required, is it a lot size? Is it a townhouse configuration?

977
01:25:31,220 --> 01:25:37,800
At some point, the private space, be simple, space you own is get so small. You got to have

978
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:44,120
something else I think for kids to recreate and for people to walk around their neighborhood

979
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:49,180
other than the sidewalk. Maybe as a different opinion you guys have. That's part of what

980
01:25:49,180 --> 01:25:56,240
we need to figure out. We're real quick on that. I'd be careful there because I think

981
01:25:58,570 --> 01:25:58,870
you're

982
01:25:59,430 --> 01:26:08,030
imposing what you personally believe. But they trust your field county everywhere we go.

983
01:26:08,890 --> 01:26:13,470
There are neighborhoods that were built in the 50s, the 60s, the 70s and the early 80s.

984
01:26:14,570 --> 01:26:17,970
They didn't have club houses, they didn't have pools, they didn't have concrete line

985
01:26:17,970 --> 01:26:24,670
ditches, they didn't have asphalt driveways, they are Cape Cods, I mean when housing was

986
01:26:24,670 --> 01:26:31,550
really expensive, the plan was you built a 900 square foot to a 1200 square foot either

987
01:26:31,550 --> 01:26:36,890
two bedroom or three bedroom basic rancher that had a great room, a kitchen off the back

988
01:26:36,890 --> 01:26:41,270
most people today put a great big honking deck on the back of it because that was their

989
01:26:41,270 --> 01:26:47,910
amenity space. Or they built the Cape Cod where the bedroom was down stairs and the two

990
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:53,150
rooms upstairs were unfinished so as the families grew in income they could finish the upstairs

991
01:26:53,150 --> 01:26:59,030
of the houses. You know in the 70s and when housing costs were through the roof and interest rates

992
01:26:59,030 --> 01:27:05,670
were through the roof that's what was built. You ride around those neighborhoods today back up

993
01:27:05,670 --> 01:27:12,350
in on elementary, behind Thomasdale High School in and around where Monica is,

994
01:27:12,490 --> 01:27:17,210
medical record. Those neighborhoods are in abundance. The vast majority of those

995
01:27:17,210 --> 01:27:22,030
neighborhoods are still in fantastic shape. There's pride of ownership, there's pride of

996
01:27:22,030 --> 01:27:28,470
community, all those other things. None of those neighborhoods have what we're talking

997
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:32,810
about here, and those neighborhoods thrive today.

998
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:45,790
So I'm very leery that we are saying this is what everybody needs to have when maybe

999
01:27:45,790 --> 01:27:48,250
not everybody wants it.

1000
01:27:48,610 --> 01:27:56,410
So again, not to keep being the kind of stops this thing, but we have to be careful of

1001
01:27:58,530 --> 01:28:07,550
But somebody calls their home and they feel good about, they make the choice to seek that home out and buy it.

1002
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:13,410
And I think we have to be a little prescriptive, especially in an environment where home prices are what they are.

1003
01:28:14,310 --> 01:28:16,210
And there's not a lot of daylight and sight.

1004
01:28:16,650 --> 01:28:25,150
We have to figure out and we can't have this ordinance anything, even remotely, about this ordinance prohibit that or slow that down.

1005
01:28:26,010 --> 01:28:30,130
So, to the extent that we're being prescriptive on everything,

1006
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:34,360
we need to think through that.

1007
01:28:36,020 --> 01:28:37,540
So, can I...

1008
01:28:37,540 --> 01:28:38,020
Okay.

1009
01:28:38,820 --> 01:28:43,600
So, you know, one of the things I kind of agree with Commissioner Sloan here,

1010
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:46,260
you know, not every neighborhood needs to have an HOA,

1011
01:28:47,060 --> 01:28:49,760
not every neighborhood needs to have 2,500 square foot houses.

1012
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:55,640
Some people could deal with a 7,000 square foot lot with a 1,500 square foot house with no garage.

1013
01:28:55,640 --> 01:29:01,660
some people want those kind of starter homes that play into the affordable housing

1014
01:29:01,660 --> 01:29:02,500
role.

1015
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:07,220
Affordable housing is not just making a house as 3,000 square feet affordable for somebody.

1016
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:12,460
It's making a house that costs what it costs, be able to be affordable, and that's kind

1017
01:29:12,460 --> 01:29:13,800
of outside of that.

1018
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:22,900
When you add these amenities and create HOAs to fund them, they become accelerators of,

1019
01:29:22,900 --> 01:29:29,660
nobody, nobody kill me for this. They've become accelerators on an unregulated tax to the homeowners and by that

1020
01:29:29,660 --> 01:29:38,420
I mean each year as expenses go up the HOA fees go up. So you end up with your paying your personal property taxes and then you have your HOA fee

1021
01:29:38,420 --> 01:29:42,660
You have to pay and so sometimes having this in any space is a good thing

1022
01:29:43,100 --> 01:29:48,200
But sometimes when it falls on maintenance to somebody, some people just want to buy a house and live

1023
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:57,720
And sometimes there are some neighborhoods that could really just be a neighborhood that houses for people to live in that don't have comments based that have to be maintained.

1024
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:10,120
I think we have that missing. We talked about missing middle, about different models of houses. There's just missing middle of just having a neighborhood people can buy a house and live in it.

1025
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:10,580
So,

1026
01:30:14,500 --> 01:30:16,260
I'm in awe that we even have this conversation.

1027
01:30:16,980 --> 01:30:17,700
Okay, carried away.

1028
01:30:19,260 --> 01:30:30,340
I mean, you know, we talk about affordable housing. I mean, like, I probably get hit more than anybody about, you know, this is affordable housing, you know, scenario.

1029
01:30:30,340 --> 01:30:38,200
And it's just like, how do you make sure you get it in a user, you know, and this kind of gets

1030
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:39,140
at the heart of it.

1031
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:46,720
You know, if you factor in, you know, for instance, interest rates into this, and then

1032
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:52,160
H.O.A., I mean, you know, this would get away from somebody real quick, you know, in terms

1033
01:30:52,160 --> 01:31:00,560
of affordability and it's something that I've kind of been saying all along but kind of

1034
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:03,980
one of those things I've kind of been saying it quietly because I didn't know if anybody

1035
01:31:03,980 --> 01:31:09,920
would agree with me. You know, I do think people need to have a page driveway, I think

1036
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:15,580
you need to, you know, make sure that people are not parking boats in their, you know,

1037
01:31:15,700 --> 01:31:22,140
driveways and RVs and stuff like that. You know, you need to have some standards and I

1038
01:31:22,140 --> 01:31:27,860
I think that, you know, HOAs, help with that, but I also think, you know, community

1039
01:31:27,860 --> 01:31:35,280
enhancement and coding for some in and other departments within the county can police

1040
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:36,360
that themselves.

1041
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:41,800
So, I'm encouraged to hear us have this conversation.

1042
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:50,980
You know, my major thing is that we allow smaller lot sizes and get into, you know, doing

1043
01:31:50,980 --> 01:31:57,200
away with the many of these spaces and all that, like, how are we going to really ensure

1044
01:31:58,440 --> 01:32:05,940
that target who are, you know, teachers, firefighters, police officers? I mean, even

1045
01:32:05,940 --> 01:32:10,400
people in our own planning department, we're going to ensure that, you know, that are doing

1046
01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:22,610
the planning, how are we going to make sure that they're able to afford a living house in the

1047
01:32:22,610 --> 01:32:28,870
But the affordable housing issue is not something that we're going to just solve by eliminating

1048
01:32:28,870 --> 01:32:29,890
amenity spaces.

1049
01:32:30,590 --> 01:32:37,130
I think accessories dwellings might be a part of that where we're helping subsidize, possibly

1050
01:32:37,550 --> 01:32:47,510
you know, a space over the garage with a, you know, one bedroom studio, you know, where

1051
01:32:47,510 --> 01:32:55,390
a kid is not related or a working professional that's not related to the homeowner lives there.

1052
01:32:55,630 --> 01:33:00,210
I mean, I think this kind of conversation and going to many different directions and I'm glad

1053
01:33:00,210 --> 01:33:07,330
that we're having it. Is it a time in place? Probably no, but I'm glad we're having it. I'm glad

1054
01:33:07,330 --> 01:33:10,170
that we have some

1055
01:33:12,250 --> 01:33:14,190
good ideas as we move forward.

1056
01:33:18,440 --> 01:33:33,960
I just want to join in on that and so I'm going to agree with my fellow commissioners I've been concerned we we have to have standards and we we do want to have the best possible community we can build but I have been getting more and more concerned

1057
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:39,860
that we're not letting the market

1058
01:33:39,860 --> 01:33:46,460
have any say in what comes in the Chastro County and that we're building these.

1059
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:52,720
We, unintentionally, but we, we seem to be putting regulations in place that might say

1060
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:58,180
you are prohibited from building a home in Chastro County that's under half a million dollars.

1061
01:33:58,780 --> 01:34:04,480
And I know that's not our intent, but it feels like that's what we're doing.

1062
01:34:04,860 --> 01:34:09,480
And we're hearing that from the steering committee that we're putting so many

1063
01:34:09,480 --> 01:34:14,740
rules and regulations in place that the people who are out there doing this for

1064
01:34:14,740 --> 01:34:20,660
living are telling us look we can build that but we have customers that

1065
01:34:20,660 --> 01:34:24,680
can't afford a half a million dollar home and you're not letting us build

1066
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:29,560
to that market that there's such a demand for so I think we need to figure out

1067
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:36,720
a way to have standards but not price out anybody who can't afford a million

1068
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:42,480
at home. We just have to be readily careful about that. I think everything we're talking about,

1069
01:34:42,940 --> 01:34:50,560
we absolutely need a path where people can choose to have all these wonderful things,

1070
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:56,760
but we shouldn't as government be forcing it on them without them having any say, because this

1071
01:34:56,760 --> 01:35:03,300
is a requirement that just will county saying, you know, you can't afford this, don't come.

1072
01:35:03,300 --> 01:35:08,040
we just need to be very careful. I know that's not our intent, but you know,

1073
01:35:08,060 --> 01:35:11,360
the King of unintended consequences over here. I think this is an unintended

1074
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:18,080
consequence of us as government dictating too much that people just can't

1075
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:23,220
afford right now, and maybe not for the foreseeable future. I just want to join

1076
01:35:23,220 --> 01:35:28,860
and with my fellow commissioners. I think we're all in agreement here in Mr. Harden

1077
01:35:28,860 --> 01:35:31,480
if you kind of say a few words as well.

1078
01:35:31,700 --> 01:35:32,780
I think that.

1079
01:35:34,340 --> 01:35:36,420
I only give one quick response to that.

1080
01:35:36,460 --> 01:35:39,100
That's that we do have multiple residential districts

1081
01:35:39,100 --> 01:35:41,100
where there's some options you don't have to have a

1082
01:35:41,100 --> 01:35:42,000
minutey space.

1083
01:35:42,460 --> 01:35:44,740
And then the final one is that we have had some internal

1084
01:35:44,740 --> 01:35:48,140
discussions about, you know, what lot size can we get

1085
01:35:48,140 --> 01:35:50,700
down to before we start requiring a minutey space?

1086
01:35:50,820 --> 01:35:53,180
You know, today the standard 12,000 square feet.

1087
01:35:53,380 --> 01:35:58,160
If you are, you know, 11,999, you have to give up

1088
01:35:58,160 --> 01:36:05,000
have square foot of commentary. So we, we'll look at those numbers for sure and try and see

1089
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:06,500
where we can tweak things as well.

1090
01:36:08,830 --> 01:36:11,010
And as a personal anecdote, I mean talking about meeting

1091
01:36:11,010 --> 01:36:15,530
the parks, I mean chest field is amazing and the number parks we have, you know, the community

1092
01:36:15,530 --> 01:36:21,730
amenities, but growing up is a cute who played hockey on the street and I know streets are dangerous,

1093
01:36:22,430 --> 01:36:27,970
but it's also why alleyways are not a horrible thing. I'll say it out loud, alleys are not a horrible

1094
01:36:27,970 --> 01:36:33,370
thing because that becomes, in my opinion, an amenity for kids to go out and play.

1095
01:36:34,250 --> 01:36:40,350
So I think there are other ways to get a community out together and being inventive,

1096
01:36:40,430 --> 01:36:44,450
you know, using their imagination is playing with us having to program how they play,

1097
01:36:45,110 --> 01:36:50,130
kids will figure it out if we just give them that freedom and that free space to explore.

1098
01:36:51,970 --> 01:36:56,630
Great, thank you. We'll go into the ownership and meet and support

1099
01:36:56,630 --> 01:36:58,830
since we had a couple of questions about that.

1100
01:36:59,030 --> 01:37:00,850
So as you can see, it talks about, you know,

1101
01:37:01,210 --> 01:37:02,430
you do have to have an HOA.

1102
01:37:02,570 --> 01:37:04,610
You have to have these amenity spaces recorded

1103
01:37:04,610 --> 01:37:07,010
by Covenant Deed or similar legal instrument.

1104
01:37:08,150 --> 01:37:10,250
They can be conveyed or dedicated to the county,

1105
01:37:10,410 --> 01:37:12,070
like we talked about before,

1106
01:37:12,070 --> 01:37:13,870
Rosalind's a case where we're gonna see

1107
01:37:13,870 --> 01:37:16,170
some of that happen with their linear park system.

1108
01:37:16,770 --> 01:37:18,770
They also have to establish some sort of organization

1109
01:37:18,770 --> 01:37:20,110
for ownership and maintenance,

1110
01:37:20,110 --> 01:37:22,610
and so that may be the HOA or some other group.

1111
01:37:23,710 --> 01:37:25,730
That organization shall not be dissolved

1112
01:37:25,730 --> 01:37:32,130
or disposed of a band, then the amenity space areas without first getting approval from the director

1113
01:37:32,130 --> 01:37:36,650
planning. So they could study Dr. Hilton's point about what if they want to sell off the pool

1114
01:37:36,650 --> 01:37:41,750
to a private entity? Well, we've got to get approval for that. We have to say, okay, you don't have

1115
01:37:41,750 --> 01:37:47,130
any other amenity space, we can't really approve that sale and that sort of thing for going on,

1116
01:37:47,190 --> 01:37:54,570
that transfer. Also that this section also complies with our landscaping and screening standards

1117
01:37:54,570 --> 01:37:59,190
and 19.233B. So those are some of the things that they have to deal with for maintenance

1118
01:37:59,190 --> 01:38:01,030
as well as that landscape view.

1119
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:13,480
So there exists this scenario where we have a neighborhood that is 20 years down the road,

1120
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:21,920
the citizens of the neighborhood have aged, and they have a lot of active amenities based.

1121
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:23,660
for those clubhouses, 10 hell.

1122
01:38:23,860 --> 01:38:29,440
It's good, cool, clubhouses, tennis courts, that kind of stuff.

1123
01:38:29,700 --> 01:38:35,560
The HOA is operated by the residents of that neighborhood.

1124
01:38:37,300 --> 01:38:42,680
That HOA, at the vote of the residents of the neighborhood,

1125
01:38:43,440 --> 01:38:46,180
come to the determination they can no longer afford

1126
01:38:46,820 --> 01:38:48,960
to operate the amenity space.

1127
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:55,270
they want to close it down and the director planning says no, you can't close it down.

1128
01:39:00,540 --> 01:39:03,760
I think that's a pretty extreme situation to describe,

1129
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:09,080
but obviously this is draft one, a draft two,

1130
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:13,800
and we'll have to look into other maybe solutions to that.

1131
01:39:13,820 --> 01:39:18,820
I don't think it was our intent to be draconian and require a pool stay open,

1132
01:39:18,820 --> 01:39:46,580
along, beyond its usefulness or effectiveness within the neighborhood, I don't think we have a fair answer for you at this time as to how to handle that particular situation other than we would consider all the elements of that particular neighborhood and hopefully come up with a reasonable solution to how that neighborhood would go on.

1133
01:39:46,580 --> 01:39:51,420
the idea of us forcing a neighborhood to continue to operate a pool that they don't want

1134
01:39:51,420 --> 01:39:53,760
to operate or it's too expensive for them.

1135
01:39:53,940 --> 01:40:01,400
Two operators is not a position I think we would take, but again, we don't have that codified.

1136
01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:03,880
So we'll have to look into that a bit more.

1137
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:07,480
And this is one of the concerns brought up by the committee the other week as well.

1138
01:40:07,660 --> 01:40:14,720
So we did want to circle back with them and get them to assist us with how this can be written.

1139
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:15,300
I

1140
01:40:20,130 --> 01:40:25,270
guess I was a little caught off guard to say that was an extreme scenario, because if the director

1141
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:38,550
of landing saying no to a request is extreme, why would we even have it in there that they would ever come to you like no should be an acceptable answer I would think.

1142
01:40:39,430 --> 01:40:47,830
But I guess that means really need to think through, if they're coming to you, they're probably in dire straits and there's a legitimate reason.

1143
01:40:50,350 --> 01:40:56,390
But we're not even an extreme answer to me means we need to think through how much of a safeguard

1144
01:40:56,390 --> 01:41:04,870
that actually is against us building stuff that we cannot discolay in main team.

1145
01:41:06,090 --> 01:41:12,290
And I think all the new buildings are perfect, I mean you, we've learned this along

1146
01:41:12,290 --> 01:41:18,850
about 60, you can't just fund the building of even landscape.

1147
01:41:19,310 --> 01:41:25,610
You're not going to put a $10,000 towards landscaping unless you know you can maintain

1148
01:41:25,610 --> 01:41:31,870
that into the future or it actually becomes worse than just having concrete, which be

1149
01:41:31,870 --> 01:41:32,630
that would maintain.

1150
01:41:33,010 --> 01:41:38,630
So we just need to be very careful that we have not just the plant problem funded at the time

1151
01:41:38,630 --> 01:41:44,930
of the zoning, but that work prepared to have them come to us and say, we can no longer

1152
01:41:44,930 --> 01:41:51,070
for you, what are you going to do and you prepared to say no, I guess, and what is our, what

1153
01:41:51,070 --> 01:41:53,850
is our, I don't actually have to do it.

1154
01:41:53,950 --> 01:42:01,450
Well, Mr. Chair, in granted, yes, my scenario was extreme, but I would say anybody that has

1155
01:42:01,450 --> 01:42:03,050
exposure to development.

1156
01:42:05,110 --> 01:42:06,790
Let's just say during 2008.

1157
01:42:09,130 --> 01:42:16,230
The reality is until a development is completely built out.

1158
01:42:17,170 --> 01:42:26,050
The developer could represent either the entirety of or the majority of the voting block of an HOA.

1159
01:42:26,910 --> 01:42:33,310
So you could have a development that was approved for 500 homes, there could be 150 under

1160
01:42:33,310 --> 01:42:39,010
roof, we go through dire economic situations, the developers on the verge of perhaps

1161
01:42:39,010 --> 01:42:43,310
going out of business, and he comes to you and says, I need to shut down these amenities

1162
01:42:43,310 --> 01:42:48,270
because of the current economic situation that we're having. It's not an extreme scenario.

1163
01:42:51,700 --> 01:42:55,860
And it's a basic affordability. You're not to say how you would handle it. I'm just saying,

1164
01:42:55,860 --> 01:43:03,020
And there are a multitude of these scenarios, and I guess one last question for Rob is,

1165
01:43:03,020 --> 01:43:09,410
I mean, can the county, how comfortable are we legally that the county can be in the middle

1166
01:43:09,410 --> 01:43:16,710
of the decision of private parties to sell their property based on the terms of, I mean,

1167
01:43:16,950 --> 01:43:19,050
these have to be proffered conditions.

1168
01:43:20,350 --> 01:43:22,790
Mr. Sloan, we do that now.

1169
01:43:23,350 --> 01:43:32,970
The current zoning ordinance in 19.1303 requires that if you have common area for a lot subdivision

1170
01:43:32,970 --> 01:43:38,570
that you create in HOA in one of the conditions that have to be put, it has to be put in

1171
01:43:39,770 --> 01:43:46,610
the declarations is that the HOA cannot dispose of any property or dissolve its existence

1172
01:43:46,610 --> 01:43:49,550
without the prior approval of the director planning.

1173
01:43:52,340 --> 01:44:00,380
So, in situations where we've had developments that were based off golf courses and those golf courses went away

1174
01:44:00,380 --> 01:44:04,620
and they were replaced by conservation easements.

1175
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:10,400
The director planning approved all of those real estate transactions.

1176
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:20,820
It would have depended upon when that particular subdivision was plated and approved.

1177
01:44:20,940 --> 01:44:26,200
I mean, the requirements that we have now, I think have been in place,

1178
01:44:26,440 --> 01:44:31,600
I mean, someone can correct me if, you know, better, at least 10 or 15 years,

1179
01:44:32,260 --> 01:44:36,540
but before then, they wouldn't have been there as a protection.

1180
01:44:36,540 --> 01:44:37,800
enough. Thanks.

1181
01:44:40,260 --> 01:44:40,260
Great.

1182
01:44:41,380 --> 01:44:42,640
The other questions on this portion?

1183
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:53,180
I just want to do a summary of our changes that we've incorporated into draft two since draft one.

1184
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:58,500
One of the big things we did and this came out of our testing of cases, you know,

1185
01:44:58,500 --> 01:44:59,980
we actually took, um, exist.

1186
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:19,700
16 and proposed zoning cases that are in the pipeline today. And we did some measurements using some drafting software and our GIS software to try and see, you know, what percentages of the site area using our news of mod terms like net acreage and that sort of thing how this calculations work out how they fit.

1187
01:45:19,700 --> 01:45:23,380
We did quite a number of different cases and projects.

1188
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:26,560
We did some outside of the county as well, which I'll show.

1189
01:45:26,940 --> 01:45:28,700
So I'm going to give just a few examples here in a moment.

1190
01:45:29,300 --> 01:45:33,140
But what they did is they really, they really

1191
01:45:33,140 --> 01:45:36,200
showed us that a lot of our residential districts

1192
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:39,080
are really heavy-handed and some of our commercial ones too.

1193
01:45:39,320 --> 01:45:42,800
So we have amended and adjusted a lot of the numbers.

1194
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:46,380
We decreased the commercial employment substantially,

1195
01:45:46,380 --> 01:45:52,740
especially when you're talking about, you know, some of those industrial districts employment districts that really don't need a

1196
01:45:52,740 --> 01:45:57,600
amenity space or not much of it. So we decrease those.

1197
01:45:59,260 --> 01:46:02,060
We adjusted all the residential districts.

1198
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:05,960
We adjusted the mixed use districts as well in commercial districts.

1199
01:46:07,200 --> 01:46:15,960
So, one thing that we did is, before with our single family districts, we had a 30% strategic

1200
01:46:15,960 --> 01:46:23,960
community space requirement and that was 30% of the required amenity space and what we found

1201
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:27,900
was that was really heavy-handed. We were taking a percentage of the net acreage and then taking

1202
01:46:27,900 --> 01:46:33,860
another percentage of that and our case testing was showing that in pretty much every case it was failing.

1203
01:46:33,860 --> 01:46:40,800
So we dropped that down. What we did is we came up with this calculation for 0.01 acre per

1204
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:47,860
louder unit. And so what that did is it took a project, a residential, single-family subdivision

1205
01:46:47,860 --> 01:46:53,080
which you think of, they're typically larger, they're more land-heavy, but have lower density.

1206
01:46:53,500 --> 01:46:59,220
What this does is it uses the density as the driver for that strategic amenity space,

1207
01:46:59,220 --> 01:47:05,540
as opposed to using land, which could be a massive chunk of land and trying to take 30 percent

1208
01:47:05,540 --> 01:47:11,380
of that. And we found that we were either meeting that or the cases that did not meet that

1209
01:47:11,380 --> 01:47:16,320
were very close. So we could have probably gotten in there with a little bit more SAS.

1210
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:23,340
We also maintained the percentages of SAS that 30 percent and other percentages for townhomes

1211
01:47:23,340 --> 01:47:28,400
multi-family. That made sense to keep that percentage of the overall

1212
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:33,240
amenity space as SAS because those are typically smaller sites but higher

1213
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:37,160
density. So it worked out better with those to actually have the percentage as

1214
01:47:37,160 --> 01:47:42,020
opposed to that point on one measure we did for single-family districts. We also

1215
01:47:42,020 --> 01:47:47,620
increase the percentage of SAS for UR and MU districts and the idea is that those

1216
01:47:47,620 --> 01:47:53,120
are smaller sites they're more compact, they're more urban, they're more dense. So we

1217
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:56,180
one of the see the more improved kind of higher value

1218
01:47:56,180 --> 01:48:00,020
amenities like plazas or hard-scape pedestrian areas,

1219
01:48:00,100 --> 01:48:00,940
things like that.

1220
01:48:01,220 --> 01:48:03,520
But we also still, while some of those other items

1221
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:05,060
like the front-age landscape being

1222
01:48:05,060 --> 01:48:07,380
or trails and RPA, things like that,

1223
01:48:07,420 --> 01:48:09,300
can still count here and there.

1224
01:48:10,020 --> 01:48:11,280
Roof top amenities, obviously,

1225
01:48:11,620 --> 01:48:12,940
that's something that's going to come in the play

1226
01:48:12,940 --> 01:48:16,220
hopefully more in the U-R and M-U district as well.

1227
01:48:18,380 --> 01:48:19,760
Here's another thing we looked at.

1228
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:22,160
We looked at those 200 foot sound setbacks

1229
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:23,840
along limited access highways.

1230
01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:29,160
We've had quite a few cases. We had chartered a colony a couple years ago that came in and wanted to put a

1231
01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:30,080
a disc golf

1232
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:35,820
Course and part of that area where there are power lines. It was already cleared. It was open. Why not use it for an amenity space?

1233
01:48:36,360 --> 01:48:40,540
We did limit it to only half of a setback. So if you get down to

1234
01:48:40,540 --> 01:48:47,000
100 feet of setback, you can no longer cut into that because you've already cut the limited access highway

1235
01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:52,820
200 foot setback in half. But if you had say 180 feet, you can cut it down a little

1236
01:48:53,380 --> 01:49:05,820
This is not addressed in the Common Area Amendment a couple years ago that charter colony case really got us to start thinking about that right around the same time that amendment was going through what we just didn't address the time so we've incorporated it here.

1237
01:49:08,020 --> 01:49:20,380
Are there any extent are there any are there any things that would change that opinion so let's say charter colony built built built a big sound wall literally a big sound wall.

1238
01:49:21,380 --> 01:49:26,420
within that would we grant an exception to allow more encroachment in that area

1239
01:49:26,420 --> 01:49:29,880
and count if there's something structural there?

1240
01:49:30,180 --> 01:49:37,280
I don't believe so. Sometimes that's actually one of the criteria that they have to use to get approval from c.v. to reduce that.

1241
01:49:37,580 --> 01:49:42,740
But at that point, if they're reducing it below 100 feet and width, we're not going to give them the credit.

1242
01:49:43,120 --> 01:49:50,220
But if they build a sound wall and they only eat up 50 feet of the sound set back, we can still give them 50 feet.

1243
01:49:53,550 --> 01:50:01,570
Next tree preservation areas, we counted these, these are those areas we see in some of our really successful neighborhoods like

1244
01:50:01,570 --> 01:50:09,090
Brandon Mill and Woodlake where there's strips of common area between the backs of lots that provide a nice tree buffer.

1245
01:50:09,670 --> 01:50:17,730
So we wanted to encourage this in some of our single family areas. They're really, they're really helpful for neighbors who back up to each other and want a little bit of privacy.

1246
01:50:17,730 --> 01:50:24,110
You know, a six to seven foot fence usually doesn't cut it, but a 15, 20 foot swath of mature

1247
01:50:24,110 --> 01:50:29,270
trees is nice. And you can go watered in that too. So we wanted to encourage that as a way of

1248
01:50:29,270 --> 01:50:30,790
tree preservation as well.

1249
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:36,480
Next we talked earlier about how only areas around residential

1250
01:50:36,480 --> 01:50:41,440
BMPs could be counted as a many of these space. What we didn't include in draft one was

1251
01:50:41,440 --> 01:50:46,700
structures that are placed above the BMPs. Even though the surface, you know, the water surface

1252
01:50:46,700 --> 01:50:54,820
maybe not counted. If you were to put a bridge or a dock or a pavilion like you see here across

1253
01:50:54,820 --> 01:50:58,340
it, we could count that area. Now it's just going to count the, you know, it's going to be limited

1254
01:50:58,340 --> 01:51:03,120
to the width of that structure. You know, you have a 12-foot wide bridge as you see in this photo,

1255
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:09,120
it's going to count 12 feet by the length of it and that's it. A private dock that is for just a

1256
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:16,680
personal lot, that's not going to count. So we're not going to allow that. If you do that in, you know,

1257
01:51:18,150 --> 01:51:24,270
Another change of graph 2 is that the entire BMP including the water surface and our non-residential

1258
01:51:24,270 --> 01:51:27,450
developments we thought should be counted if amenetized.

1259
01:51:28,010 --> 01:51:33,530
And you see some photos here that the top right one is a pretty famous BMP and Newport News,

1260
01:51:33,890 --> 01:51:35,170
the city center at Oyster Point.

1261
01:51:35,730 --> 01:51:40,330
I mean, that entire thing is the amenity for sides of walking trails and sitting areas around it.

1262
01:51:40,370 --> 01:51:42,010
People have a nice view from the buildings.

1263
01:51:42,490 --> 01:51:45,410
They have a nice view from all these areas along the edge of it.

1264
01:51:45,410 --> 01:51:50,890
They have fountains, they shoot fireworks off there, they have, you know, they color the fountain,

1265
01:51:50,990 --> 01:51:55,550
they're in St. Patty's day and stuff like that. So it really is the amenity in that sense.

1266
01:51:55,890 --> 01:52:00,150
And then if you look at what I feel crossing the picture down below, that's an excellent example

1267
01:52:00,150 --> 01:52:05,290
of when we've done here in Chesterfield. Has walking past where you can walk the whole perimeter of it,

1268
01:52:05,410 --> 01:52:10,350
has fountains in the mill. You've got multiple businesses that are developing above it. So you can

1269
01:52:10,350 --> 01:52:16,690
out over the water. And that's what makes sitting at, you know, the brewery there or Wong's

1270
01:52:16,690 --> 01:52:21,670
talk out, that's what makes it just wonderful to sit out there and just enjoy the waterfront.

1271
01:52:25,190 --> 01:52:29,970
Another one, in the more urban areas, we've added an allowance for crosswalks. However,

1272
01:52:30,090 --> 01:52:35,270
they're only counted where they're clearly donated with pavers. They can be raised crosswalks,

1273
01:52:35,330 --> 01:52:39,310
but we're not just allowing people to paint stripes on the ground and count that. They have to

1274
01:52:39,310 --> 01:52:45,310
these more permanent improvements. Like I said, you see these near more mixed use areas. Once again,

1275
01:52:45,490 --> 01:52:49,650
to the right, when I feel crossing is a good example of those pavers, they look really nice there.

1276
01:52:52,010 --> 01:52:55,710
And if you think about it, a lot of crosswalks are going to give you a little bit of a

1277
01:52:55,710 --> 01:53:00,230
amenity space, but each one of those is going to help you a little bit these more urban areas where you have

1278
01:53:00,230 --> 01:53:07,470
less land, and you've got to really meet that higher quality manner space. Next, catwalks, pedestrian

1279
01:53:07,470 --> 01:53:11,710
bikeway bridges or tunnels over under roads or railroads. These are something we didn't

1280
01:53:11,710 --> 01:53:17,270
consider before that you count. They have to be a separate structure for the sole purpose

1281
01:53:17,270 --> 01:53:22,090
of walking and biking. We're not going to give you credit if you build a bridge for a road and then

1282
01:53:22,090 --> 01:53:26,510
you have a sidewalk alongside. That's the typical thing. You shouldn't get credit for that.

1283
01:53:26,810 --> 01:53:30,750
But these separate structures like you see here, we've got rock and slanting in the top right.

1284
01:53:31,190 --> 01:53:34,830
We've got the WNoD trail up and hurned in Virginia with the bridge over.

1285
01:53:35,490 --> 01:53:36,930
So that's a really great one.

1286
01:53:37,150 --> 01:53:39,290
We've also given you a massive credit for that

1287
01:53:39,290 --> 01:53:41,310
because these are such a high dollar.

1288
01:53:41,330 --> 01:53:44,130
We've given you a credit of 10 times for that.

1289
01:53:44,450 --> 01:53:46,530
Now, it's just the surface area, the width

1290
01:53:46,530 --> 01:53:47,530
and length of the bridge.

1291
01:53:47,790 --> 01:53:50,990
You're not counting a buffer area outside of that.

1292
01:53:51,250 --> 01:53:52,730
But because these are so expensive,

1293
01:53:52,870 --> 01:53:54,390
we don't expect a lot of developers

1294
01:53:54,390 --> 01:53:55,370
are going to install these.

1295
01:53:55,390 --> 01:53:57,290
A lot of these will probably be more county projects,

1296
01:53:57,850 --> 01:54:00,490
but where they can, they should get a good credit for that.

1297
01:54:00,730 --> 01:54:03,230
Because they are something we would like to see more

1298
01:54:03,230 --> 01:54:05,490
especially pedestrian bridges across

1299
01:54:05,490 --> 01:54:07,610
a mid-Lothian turnpike near stone bridges,

1300
01:54:07,790 --> 01:54:08,790
something like that.

1301
01:54:08,950 --> 01:54:09,790
This would be really important.

1302
01:54:11,910 --> 01:54:13,510
Another one, dedication to land.

1303
01:54:14,830 --> 01:54:19,110
We had talked about different items like park schools,

1304
01:54:19,690 --> 01:54:21,950
fire stations, police stations, things like that.

1305
01:54:22,010 --> 01:54:24,150
What we left out was transit stations.

1306
01:54:24,730 --> 01:54:26,090
So we added transit stations.

1307
01:54:26,250 --> 01:54:28,210
We also changed the language a little bit

1308
01:54:28,210 --> 01:54:30,710
that addresses dedication before.

1309
01:54:30,710 --> 01:54:35,490
we said it could only be dedicated to the county, but now we're talking about you can

1310
01:54:35,490 --> 01:54:41,070
dedicate it to any public entity. So V dot DCR, DPRT, that sort of thing. We'll give

1311
01:54:41,070 --> 01:54:45,630
you a credit for that. So if we, you know, if we have a mixed use development, like

1312
01:54:45,630 --> 01:54:51,550
Spring line at District 60 and they want to build a new bus stop in that, you know, as part

1313
01:54:51,550 --> 01:54:55,750
of that development incorporated and have the little pull off the shelter, that's something

1314
01:54:55,750 --> 01:54:59,330
they should get some credit for. It's a very small credit, but you know, every little bit

1315
01:54:59,330 --> 01:55:01,070
going to help in these more urban situations.

1316
01:55:04,530 --> 01:55:08,870
The next one is we found an interesting way to

1317
01:55:10,390 --> 01:55:16,510
sort of calculate projects where we had multiple districts in one project, multiple zoning

1318
01:55:16,510 --> 01:55:23,270
districts, or multiple options. We really had a challenge as to how to break them apart to

1319
01:55:23,270 --> 01:55:27,870
calculate each part and what each one's amenity space would be because each of these options

1320
01:55:27,870 --> 01:55:34,110
and this picture here. These are three different options in our TR district. Option one,

1321
01:55:34,290 --> 01:55:39,170
which is multifamily to your base, which are the alley-loaded townhomes and then the street

1322
01:55:39,170 --> 01:55:42,430
version, which are the front-loaded townhomes, with garages and driveways out front

1323
01:55:42,430 --> 01:55:49,130
on the street. They'll have different requirements. So the challenge here was to decide how

1324
01:55:49,130 --> 01:55:54,910
do we calculate that in a way that makes sense. With a lot of these projects, you can't just

1325
01:55:54,910 --> 01:56:00,830
a site or subdivision size because a lot of times that site or subdivision include some of

1326
01:56:00,830 --> 01:56:05,230
the amenity space within that project. So you can't just use that subdivision boundary.

1327
01:56:05,810 --> 01:56:11,490
What we did here, we came up with a calculation where you use the ratio of the number of units

1328
01:56:11,490 --> 01:56:16,570
with an each district or option to the total number of units on the Met project acreage.

1329
01:56:17,030 --> 01:56:21,790
And we have a really good sample calculation in Zoma down on the very last page of the

1330
01:56:21,790 --> 01:56:27,030
is a melody space section that gives you an example of how to calculate that. And we did a

1331
01:56:27,030 --> 01:56:30,650
couple of test cases. This is once again the rockwood square case, which has been a great

1332
01:56:30,650 --> 01:56:37,710
test case for us, worked out really well here. And we came out much higher than the typical

1333
01:56:37,710 --> 01:56:42,390
melody space requirement, if you broke the pieces apart. But we also found that it wasn't punitive

1334
01:56:42,390 --> 01:56:47,650
either. And the cases we tested, it wasn't requiring more than you would if you broke it up

1335
01:56:47,650 --> 01:56:51,050
in the three different subdivisions. If you had those perfect boundaries that, you know,

1336
01:56:51,050 --> 01:56:53,050
or lines of streets or that sort of thing.

1337
01:56:53,290 --> 01:56:55,110
So worked out really well for that calculation.

1338
01:56:56,030 --> 01:56:59,470
I'm showing here just on the final part of the test that

1339
01:56:59,470 --> 01:57:03,050
you know, the requirement was for 4.13 acres of a

1340
01:57:03,050 --> 01:57:05,490
many of these space, you got almost six.

1341
01:57:06,210 --> 01:57:11,230
For SAS, it was 1.7 acres and they provided over 4 acres

1342
01:57:11,230 --> 01:57:13,350
of strategic amenities space.

1343
01:57:13,590 --> 01:57:14,630
So it met the test easily.

1344
01:57:15,570 --> 01:57:19,190
Now I'm just going to go through a couple other test cases that we had.

1345
01:57:19,190 --> 01:57:23,310
I won't talk too much about the numbers, I'll just kind of go through these, but Cambria

1346
01:57:23,310 --> 01:57:28,390
Cova was a great example of one of our older sort of cluster developments, you know,

1347
01:57:28,470 --> 01:57:32,170
smaller lots with a requirement for common area.

1348
01:57:33,210 --> 01:57:37,750
You can see the red areas in the middle, that's our strategic amenities space, our SAS.

1349
01:57:38,670 --> 01:57:44,250
That was like a clubhouse area, a playground, some other amenities, and that's kind of

1350
01:57:44,250 --> 01:57:45,030
centrally located.

1351
01:57:45,730 --> 01:57:52,690
If you look to the north of that, there's a long strip of kind of green area and that's where they put a trail into the RPA.

1352
01:57:52,890 --> 01:57:59,870
So they got that 100 foot credit through a big portion of the RPA because that trail swings around connects to multiple cul-de-sax,

1353
01:58:00,170 --> 01:58:03,110
and then connects directly to your strategic amenities base area.

1354
01:58:03,350 --> 01:58:07,610
So this is a really good example for how that works in some of our single-family districts.

1355
01:58:07,610 --> 01:58:14,530
Let's say this was like a, you know, our SN district or something like that. It would it would work out well with the SN district.

1356
01:58:17,090 --> 01:58:20,670
Take that one out. Next one is Winterfield Park.

1357
01:58:20,750 --> 01:58:22,630
I know you all are familiar with this in mid-Lothian.

1358
01:58:23,050 --> 01:58:33,690
This actually had this had single family, small lot single family units, 5,000 square foot minimum lots and then smaller town home lots as well.

1359
01:58:34,310 --> 01:58:36,050
This was also two different options.

1360
01:58:36,390 --> 01:58:42,770
This could be SUOps and two, which are alley-loaded, single-family, and then TR-based alley, which

1361
01:58:42,770 --> 01:58:46,230
is a kind of real-loaded townhome projects.

1362
01:58:47,070 --> 01:58:48,850
And this one worked very well.

1363
01:58:49,570 --> 01:58:52,950
Also, we had a good strategic amenity space in the middle of that red area.

1364
01:58:53,330 --> 01:58:57,710
We had some trails to go through the RPA and connect over to another street to the West.

1365
01:58:58,270 --> 01:59:02,090
So they're able to really take advantage of that and worked out well with our all our calculations.

1366
01:59:03,270 --> 01:59:06,610
Next year is another recent case, the Steinmark Center case.

1367
01:59:07,770 --> 01:59:13,710
This is a great example of what would be our CC option 2 that kind of mixed used in our CC

1368
01:59:13,710 --> 01:59:14,150
district.

1369
01:59:14,570 --> 01:59:20,510
This is also what we would consider the UCO, the urban quarter overlay, which has a 10% amenity

1370
01:59:20,510 --> 01:59:21,350
space requirement.

1371
01:59:22,170 --> 01:59:26,630
But with this case, they did a great job of putting in some strategic amenity spaces in

1372
01:59:26,630 --> 01:59:27,070
the red.

1373
01:59:27,070 --> 01:59:40,290
And then some more normal kind of passive spaces towards the back, there's a BMP that they're going to run a trail around and use that, maybe put a dog park factor or some things like that, so this one worked out really well.

1374
01:59:41,430 --> 01:59:48,750
For some out-it-town examples, Libby Mill is a really great example, has a little bit of every kind of a mini-d-space you can imagine, has trails,

1375
01:59:48,750 --> 01:59:56,770
It has central areas, it has a BMP in the middle with a decking area over it, it has some

1376
01:59:56,770 --> 01:59:59,970
courtyard that are more improved, it has a clubhouse and pool area.

1377
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:26,500
Area that's incredibly looked, it's beautiful. I mean, they did a great job on all their amenities here. And this one worked really well for our MU district. We actually got it to, we tested it on our two higher intensity MU districts. So option two, our community mixed use and then our regional mixed use and it worked out for both. So this is a great example for our MU district of how many space works out.

1378
02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:42,720
This was a really interesting example, and this is kind of showing us that you could have a big box shopping center and a CC district here under ZOMOD and have amenity space that works.

1379
02:00:43,220 --> 02:00:49,320
This is over in James City County, just kind of near the Williamsburg Pottery Factory of people familiar with that.

1380
02:00:50,300 --> 02:00:55,820
And, and this was a good example, like I said, a big box retail where they put in a giant

1381
02:00:55,820 --> 02:00:59,720
amenity space in the middle. It's like a central green. And people go out there and take

1382
02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:03,700
their sandwiches from the sandwich shop or, you know, their food from the Harris teeter and go

1383
02:01:03,700 --> 02:01:09,520
out there and eat and people walk their dogs there. It's really nice. I mean, it's really made

1384
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:13,940
this, not just the shopping center, but something more enjoyable to come visit. So you're not

1385
02:01:13,940 --> 02:01:17,420
just taking your gallon of milk and going home. This is somewhere we can spend some time and

1386
02:01:17,420 --> 02:01:22,940
it. They also have a trail along that main arterial to the south so that's something that was

1387
02:01:22,940 --> 02:01:27,560
credited because it weaves in and out of that parameter landscape set back down there.

1388
02:01:28,480 --> 02:01:32,700
So that's the end of our testing. I just have a couple more real quick ones to go to.

1389
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:38,580
Our final change I wanted to note was the addition of a sample calculation for how a

1390
02:01:38,580 --> 02:01:42,520
typical development would calculate their many these space and strategic many these space.

1391
02:01:43,080 --> 02:01:47,180
This is really done to help customers and citizens better understand the calculations

1392
02:01:47,180 --> 02:01:51,420
and how it works. So we took a, you know, a development took all the, the factors like

1393
02:01:51,420 --> 02:01:55,740
Medaic Ridge and RPA and, and number of units and that sort of thing, and did a calculation.

1394
02:01:56,380 --> 02:02:00,240
So, this is down at the very bottom in the amenity space section just to give people an example.

1395
02:02:03,880 --> 02:02:07,960
I just want to say before I yield the floor for the next section, I know this has been pretty long

1396
02:02:07,960 --> 02:02:09,840
and I apologize for that.

1397
02:02:10,500 --> 02:02:14,280
I did want to note that we did hear some concerns from the advisory committee

1398
02:02:14,280 --> 02:02:19,760
that the overall amenity space requirements are a little too stringent still may impact housing affordability

1399
02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:24,840
like some of you all brought up today. We'll say we are requiring a many of these space for the larger

1400
02:02:24,840 --> 02:02:30,280
lots as well as some of our commercial employment districts that is certainly a new paradigm for

1401
02:02:30,280 --> 02:02:35,660
test of field counting. Like I said before 12,000 square foot lots in below once you get below

1402
02:02:35,660 --> 02:02:40,560
12,000 that's when it kicked in. Now it's a little higher than that but something we can certainly look at.

1403
02:02:41,520 --> 02:02:46,060
I did want to say however we are still providing that large menu of items so there are many different ways

1404
02:02:46,060 --> 02:02:47,520
you can satisfy the requirements.

1405
02:02:48,280 --> 02:02:49,740
It's not all that high value,

1406
02:02:50,340 --> 02:02:52,740
kind of SAS that's going to be counted.

1407
02:02:55,380 --> 02:03:00,160
I would say also that our goal in this section

1408
02:03:00,160 --> 02:03:02,200
is really to create places.

1409
02:03:02,460 --> 02:03:06,040
And that's part of the big part of this amenity space section.

1410
02:03:06,220 --> 02:03:10,280
We want to create places, not just subdivisions.

1411
02:03:10,700 --> 02:03:12,280
We have a lot of subdivisions today

1412
02:03:12,280 --> 02:03:15,480
with no community amenities like some of you brought up.

1413
02:03:15,480 --> 02:03:18,040
and no public parks in proximity.

1414
02:03:18,780 --> 02:03:21,580
And so one of the issues we're having at the county level too

1415
02:03:21,580 --> 02:03:24,420
is land becomes more and more expensive and more scarce

1416
02:03:24,420 --> 02:03:26,540
as development and other things take it up.

1417
02:03:26,860 --> 02:03:28,260
It becomes challenging for the county

1418
02:03:28,260 --> 02:03:30,580
to provide additional park land.

1419
02:03:31,460 --> 02:03:33,960
So in conclusion of this, creating amenities

1420
02:03:33,960 --> 02:03:37,100
within developments can help fill some of those gaps

1421
02:03:37,100 --> 02:03:40,060
in a park system, also supplement that system.

1422
02:03:40,440 --> 02:03:41,700
This is a really important component.

1423
02:03:42,060 --> 02:03:44,660
Really appreciate it, and I will now turn it over

1424
02:03:44,660 --> 02:03:46,060
to Mr. Jeff Lampson.

1425
02:03:47,420 --> 02:03:47,640
Thank you,

1426
02:04:11,750 --> 02:04:11,950
Drew.

1427
02:04:12,450 --> 02:04:14,850
My microphone on, all right, we are back.

1428
02:04:15,610 --> 02:04:18,370
And Mr. Lampson, I guess we will continue with Zoma.

1429
02:04:19,310 --> 02:04:20,850
And everybody's coffin fits.

1430
02:04:21,050 --> 02:04:21,950
Might be able to give everybody a break.

1431
02:04:22,290 --> 02:04:23,590
It was a rough 15 minutes.

1432
02:04:26,350 --> 02:04:26,930
I think they're right.

1433
02:04:33,470 --> 02:04:34,930
Yes, come on, Senator Petrovsky,

1434
02:04:35,130 --> 02:04:37,090
members of the Commission, Director Gillies.

1435
02:04:37,370 --> 02:04:38,910
We're here today to talk about Bill and its standards

1436
02:04:38,910 --> 02:04:42,170
for building design for draft two, Zomaude.

1437
02:04:42,370 --> 02:04:43,890
We may recognize some of these standards

1438
02:04:43,890 --> 02:04:49,430
from the existing zoning ordinance, and also many of these are taken from standard

1439
02:04:49,430 --> 02:04:52,250
proffers from zoning cases over the recent past.

1440
02:04:53,190 --> 02:04:58,330
We have had responses from the advisory committee that informed us that we had maybe gone too

1441
02:04:58,330 --> 02:05:02,490
far, so we had scaled back some of these requirements and their application of their

1442
02:05:02,490 --> 02:05:04,210
of their of.

1443
02:05:07,180 --> 02:05:14,160
So getting to this particular section here, we have county-wide standards, and we've recognized

1444
02:05:14,160 --> 02:05:18,500
here that we have a couple of these props are at a place that our place will be moved to the

1445
02:05:18,500 --> 02:05:24,860
residential section as engrages will be too. So we have claddy materials which will be in

1446
02:05:24,860 --> 02:05:30,280
a countywide standard and parking decks which will may also be likely to move to commercial

1447
02:05:30,280 --> 02:05:31,180
and make sure you standard.

1448
02:05:34,460 --> 02:05:38,240
So first up is the direct vent fireplace which is some new modern

1449
02:05:38,240 --> 02:05:44,480
convenience that we have and these have been occurring unfortunately on front edge is some of the

1450
02:05:44,480 --> 02:05:50,680
buildings, so that was a detraction from the nice front elevations that we've been getting,

1451
02:05:51,060 --> 02:05:56,780
so this is to address that concern to have these boxes placed on the sides and the rear.

1452
02:06:00,150 --> 02:06:05,010
Clad in materials, no buildings have been covered with or exposed to view having end painted

1453
02:06:05,010 --> 02:06:09,090
or unfinished concrete block or unfinished corrugated metal. An unfinished sheet metal,

1454
02:06:09,350 --> 02:06:17,050
this is a current standard in the ordinance and in the plies and all, overlay districts in one

1455
02:06:17,050 --> 02:06:18,990
in the block, corrugated metal,

1456
02:06:19,270 --> 02:06:20,390
underneath the seat metal and plight,

1457
02:06:20,510 --> 02:06:21,670
the county was standard.

1458
02:06:24,260 --> 02:06:25,660
Moving on to attach for us,

1459
02:06:25,740 --> 02:06:28,860
which will be moved to the residential section.

1460
02:06:30,180 --> 02:06:33,460
We concerned about the front edges of the street

1461
02:06:33,460 --> 02:06:36,760
for the amount of garage doors that we see,

1462
02:06:37,180 --> 02:06:40,980
the standard would limit the door opening

1463
02:06:40,980 --> 02:06:45,360
of the garage to 50% of the overall elevation

1464
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:46,760
or front elevation there.

1465
02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:52,980
We recognize this is a standard that may not be very difficult to meet with townhomes and

1466
02:06:52,980 --> 02:06:57,900
we're going to need an ever-parrowing townhome product, so we're going to have a valuable

1467
02:06:57,900 --> 02:07:02,380
weight how that may apply and may not be 50% and maybe 60% or something, we're still looking

1468
02:07:02,380 --> 02:07:03,220
into that.

1469
02:07:03,700 --> 02:07:11,040
We also heard from the steering committee that they did not like the prohibition on the

1470
02:07:11,040 --> 02:07:16,360
garage being behind the front facade either, so there was quite a bit of discussion.

1471
02:07:16,360 --> 02:07:25,840
I'm sure you remember Mr. Petroski around the garage is the percent was one how much percentage of the front facade and then to the placement of the garage.

1472
02:07:26,040 --> 02:07:33,560
We want it behind the front facade. They felt that that was too too far. So just to let the group know.

1473
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:39,440
So can we actually talk about that for a second? Because I am curious again.

1474
02:07:39,440 --> 02:07:48,440
I might err on the side of government, getting as involved as little as possible as long as we're keeping the community safe.

1475
02:07:50,620 --> 02:07:57,300
And what is the impetus for us mandating garage size?

1476
02:07:57,700 --> 02:08:04,720
I mean, why do we dictate that rather than letting the private market have say in that?

1477
02:08:06,140 --> 02:08:11,620
Many of these issues have been taken from surveys that we've done in the community, and they have

1478
02:08:11,620 --> 02:08:19,720
indicated us that some of these homes and developments that are dominated by garages on the front are not as attractive as they'd like to see.

1479
02:08:21,840 --> 02:08:24,480
Anybody else have any anything to add to that?

1480
02:08:24,480 --> 02:08:31,500
How I just kind of reinforce what Jeff just said that we, you know, the appearance, the

1481
02:08:31,500 --> 02:08:38,860
autocentric aspect of having a high percentage of your front yard being driveway and

1482
02:08:38,860 --> 02:08:50,000
a protruding garage door or portion of your garage was something that most instances has not been

1483
02:08:50,000 --> 02:09:07,240
popular look and trying to create a bit more of the ability to camouflage or hide the garage a bit

1484
02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:13,160
with certain techniques. One technique is to set it back a bit from the front front the side.

1485
02:09:13,540 --> 02:09:20,920
The other is to try to incorporate maybe some improvements or elements around the door itself

1486
02:09:20,920 --> 02:09:21,980
or put it on its side.

1487
02:09:22,700 --> 02:09:25,620
So it's just trying to create a bit more attractiveness

1488
02:09:25,620 --> 02:09:29,540
of the neighborhood and some of the popular comments

1489
02:09:29,540 --> 02:09:31,600
that have been made over the years in reference

1490
02:09:31,600 --> 02:09:33,600
to some of you.

1491
02:09:34,120 --> 02:09:37,460
OK, so I may be in the minority, but when it comes

1492
02:09:37,460 --> 02:09:41,260
to popularity or attractiveness, to me,

1493
02:09:41,500 --> 02:09:43,240
that's quite subjective.

1494
02:09:44,740 --> 02:09:49,360
And if there's no safety or quality or something

1495
02:09:49,360 --> 02:09:56,220
that we can, I guess, quantify, and we're just saying that we think something is more or less

1496
02:09:56,220 --> 02:10:01,760
attractive, then I'm not sure the ordinance is the place for that because this is, I mean,

1497
02:10:01,860 --> 02:10:02,340
this is law.

1498
02:10:02,480 --> 02:10:09,400
This is, we're saying it must be attractive by our perception of what attractiveness means.

1499
02:10:10,340 --> 02:10:15,120
But if we don't have this in there, there's nothing preventing a case by case scenario

1500
02:10:15,120 --> 02:10:19,380
saying, well, for this development, we would prefer a certain percentage of this in that

1501
02:10:19,380 --> 02:10:25,620
but locking it down 100% county-wide seems, it quite frankly, it seems like government

1502
02:10:25,620 --> 02:10:26,620
overreached.

1503
02:10:27,240 --> 02:10:34,940
Mr. Chair, I would concur, and I actually, I'm a mess on which here it was, but if we go back

1504
02:10:34,940 --> 02:10:40,860
far enough, there was actually, there was actually previous commissions tried to go through

1505
02:10:40,860 --> 02:10:44,980
like having design books and stuff like that.

1506
02:10:45,520 --> 02:10:49,380
And I think getting into the specifics of architecture

1507
02:10:49,380 --> 02:10:55,340
and design and being prescriptive on how something

1508
02:10:55,340 --> 02:10:59,680
should look, I think a lot of times in the past,

1509
02:11:00,920 --> 02:11:04,300
we've kind of always kind of felt that we

1510
02:11:04,300 --> 02:11:08,080
want to ensure that the materials are of quality and kind

1511
02:11:08,080 --> 02:11:14,940
will last and you know minimum widths of vinyl and stuff like that. But I think we've had

1512
02:11:14,940 --> 02:11:22,120
some willingness areas where there's high density and so forth to you know discuss repetition

1513
02:11:22,120 --> 02:11:26,920
and architectural design but kind of holding up on the prescriptive nature of exactly how

1514
02:11:26,920 --> 02:11:33,140
something should work and you don't want all of that. I think that kind of stuff I think I can

1515
02:11:33,140 --> 02:11:33,420
So,

1516
02:11:39,920 --> 02:11:48,140
I have ID2, it just seems to me that this is something that would be better suited

1517
02:11:48,140 --> 02:11:57,140
in the HOA and architectural review documents for the particular development and not a county

1518
02:11:57,140 --> 02:11:58,160
wide issue.

1519
02:11:58,980 --> 02:12:01,160
So, my personal opinion on that.

1520
02:12:05,400 --> 02:12:11,520
This next example is in the demonstration of how it would not apply, so this is a side-facing,

1521
02:12:11,680 --> 02:12:18,140
which does not face the streets to propose all this garage with, would be only for street-facing,

1522
02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:25,220
really.

1523
02:12:31,270 --> 02:12:32,890
We looked up the earlier relatives,

1524
02:12:39,820 --> 02:12:46,280
and so this is a standard that would require accessories, structures, and garages to be architectural, compatible with the primary dwelling unit.

1525
02:12:46,280 --> 02:12:54,200
Of course there would be some instances where we need to examine this more closely in terms of perhaps the height of this structure would be

1526
02:12:54,200 --> 02:13:04,700
have to be compatible and we recognize there maybe some sheds and things like that nature that if they're not visible from the street would not be able to submit something to this requirement.

1527
02:13:09,020 --> 02:13:17,020
So, screening of the HPA equipment, propane tanks, generator screening, foundation planings,

1528
02:13:17,260 --> 02:13:22,440
and we've just mentioned the elevation repetition, portraits and stupes and corner side units.

1529
02:13:23,580 --> 02:13:29,380
This is an example of how the HVAC equipment can be screened with a little whiteboard fence.

1530
02:13:30,140 --> 02:13:36,400
The requirements for landscaping and any screening is initially to be done at times of CO,

1531
02:13:36,400 --> 02:13:41,020
is not something that the county would pursue as an enforcement issue to long-term.

1532
02:13:44,890 --> 02:13:49,570
Now, the Asian plantains would be required along with the front facade and corner

1533
02:13:49,570 --> 02:13:51,550
stop-fasads, anything that faces a street,

1534
02:13:56,070 --> 02:13:57,610
and then the elevation and repetition where we

1535
02:13:57,610 --> 02:14:03,550
don't have in the units located adjacent to each other directly across the street, on the same

1536
02:14:03,550 --> 02:14:10,470
road, and a variation of the front elevation shall not be used simply by mirroring the facade.

1537
02:14:10,470 --> 02:14:24,810
Here on the lower right, lower left, demonstration that we're talking about with the dominance of, in this example, actually the garage doors, as well as the repetition of the same product all the way down the street.

1538
02:14:26,430 --> 02:14:26,910
Sorry.

1539
02:14:27,310 --> 02:14:29,370
You can finish your sentence before we go to the next slide.

1540
02:14:30,010 --> 02:14:30,490
Sure.

1541
02:14:30,810 --> 02:14:35,930
The upper right is just two single family residents that were built identical next to each other.

1542
02:14:37,050 --> 02:14:43,590
So, this is another item where I feel like, in general, I think this is great, you know,

1543
02:14:43,590 --> 02:14:45,270
we don't want them and not me.

1544
02:14:46,850 --> 02:14:54,030
But when we're thinking about county-wide 100% has to follow these rules that we're putting

1545
02:14:54,030 --> 02:14:59,970
in place, there are some areas where, let's say it's red brick, where...

1546
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:18,120
It's a very classy look to just be continuous. Is there a way for, you know, a classy red brick continuous type of development to go in or are we really saying that just blanket statement, no repetition? How do we handle that?

1547
02:15:18,120 --> 02:15:26,600
Certainly with the quality of standard of a brick if there was some way to modify the perhaps the details of the brick over the windows or some type of modification.

1548
02:15:27,800 --> 02:15:31,580
I think everywhere that I can think of where we have a.

1549
02:15:31,620 --> 02:15:38,420
Continuous masonry elevations down the street with a townhouse development in New York or other places, there's a variety included in.

1550
02:15:38,420 --> 02:15:42,120
Between these buildings, especially when they're sort of close to each other.

1551
02:15:42,120 --> 02:15:48,340
But certainly, we can entertain quality as an issue that could be taken into account, maybe

1552
02:15:48,340 --> 02:15:55,120
to offset or allow for more repetition of front doors, could be, and as many ways to comply

1553
02:15:55,120 --> 02:15:57,100
with this, doesn't have to be a totally different standard.

1554
02:15:58,040 --> 02:16:03,280
It could be the same model as modified slightly with the doors or the front porch's, the

1555
02:16:03,280 --> 02:16:09,480
roof lines, different minor changes to the building, allow for the variation.

1556
02:16:10,460 --> 02:16:17,300
I guess we're getting as, do we need variation in 100% of our developments across the

1557
02:16:17,300 --> 02:16:17,580
county?

1558
02:16:17,860 --> 02:16:23,300
Because I almost feel like then we, we go to the other stream, we're forcing variation.

1559
02:16:24,720 --> 02:16:30,580
And sometimes it's not appropriate, and it's like it's too blanket to say that everything

1560
02:16:30,580 --> 02:16:38,520
must have a variation and you can not just have a common looking, you know, row of homes.

1561
02:16:38,520 --> 02:16:50,220
I don't know if, if I'm alone on this one, I just, again, I want to make sure that we're not over prescribing and forcing something that maybe is not 100% of the time required.

1562
02:16:50,880 --> 02:16:56,900
Mr. Petroski, is your issue with the materials or with the actual elevation like the house plan?

1563
02:16:57,440 --> 02:17:03,040
Because what we're talking about here is house plan. You could have a whole neighborhood of red brick but of different house plans.

1564
02:17:03,040 --> 02:17:14,680
This is this is speaking to, you know, I have like the top example there on the same house plan over and over and over all the way down the street, you know, regardless of what material you put on is the same.

1565
02:17:15,060 --> 02:17:31,760
Craig, and I guess I'm saying there are places and I think somewhere along the lines I've seen, I can't think of that man, but it was red brick or white brick and the material doesn't matter, but those are examples of there have been communities where there was a row of homes that were absolutely identical.

1566
02:17:33,040 --> 02:17:37,180
And it didn't mean they were low quality, it didn't mean they were unsafe.

1567
02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:41,580
It just meant that that was aesthetically pleasing to somebody.

1568
02:17:42,040 --> 02:17:45,900
And again, it's a subjective thing to say that, just for County,

1569
02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:52,220
can never have something look that way because we think that's not attractive.

1570
02:18:02,950 --> 02:18:10,810
You drop in these communities and is that, they all, that's not the way we want to

1571
02:18:10,810 --> 02:18:11,590
prove it from ever.

1572
02:18:12,090 --> 02:18:19,370
I mean, obviously, the one on the bottom is nothing but repetition, but with the exception

1573
02:18:19,370 --> 02:18:23,490
to apply the two on this and looks like they've all been sold and they're people living

1574
02:18:23,490 --> 02:18:28,510
in there and they like them exactly and that neighbor doesn't offend me personally.

1575
02:18:34,110 --> 02:18:39,230
I guess there's a common theme and I want to keep, you know, hammering that drum, but I,

1576
02:18:39,230 --> 02:18:47,730
I'm of the belief that we should be careful how much we put into a county-wide 100% everybody

1577
02:18:47,730 --> 02:18:55,170
must follow this prescription of what, you know, just what county is saying, you have to do it

1578
02:18:55,170 --> 02:19:02,090
an hour away because this is what we have found attractive, just want to be careful of that.

1579
02:19:02,090 --> 02:19:10,490
Moving forward, we have ways to comply, which provide options that the developer may choose from.

1580
02:19:10,510 --> 02:19:16,090
This is part of the Boarding Repetition by simply mirroring the same building.

1581
02:19:17,750 --> 02:19:26,890
The ways that we can achieve the Boarding Repetition by providing the portals and entries can vary.

1582
02:19:26,890 --> 02:19:31,770
different massacred, very roof-line sighting projections

1583
02:19:31,770 --> 02:19:37,250
and other style considerations can be taken into effect.

1584
02:19:37,570 --> 02:19:40,730
Here are two buildings that are probably the same model,

1585
02:19:41,110 --> 02:19:45,890
slightly modified, the one on the left has a greater setback.

1586
02:19:46,110 --> 02:19:49,870
But you can see the basic form of these buildings is pretty much the same.

1587
02:19:50,070 --> 02:19:54,970
But they've changed the materials, changed the window trim,

1588
02:19:54,970 --> 02:20:02,770
and the siding shutters in the roof is been slightly modified?

1589
02:20:04,210 --> 02:20:12,610
We found it just having some subtle ability to vary the sod and to kind of creates a

1590
02:20:12,610 --> 02:20:18,510
little more interest and long term sustainability in the neighborhood.

1591
02:20:21,470 --> 02:20:22,770
What do you mean by sustainability?

1592
02:20:22,770 --> 02:20:49,290
I think, you know, the idea that if getting away from just, you know, the cookie cutter street, that particular street, I would, I would, I think historically has been proven not to be as continued to be as long lasting as a owner occupied, consider as situation as as maybe one that had a little bit of variety within the street.

1593
02:20:49,290 --> 02:20:53,150
I think most of the builders have come to the conclusion

1594
02:20:53,150 --> 02:20:57,210
that creating basically the houses on either side

1595
02:20:57,210 --> 02:21:01,910
or across from each of these particular design house,

1596
02:21:01,930 --> 02:21:04,650
providing a little bit of difference in that plan

1597
02:21:04,650 --> 02:21:08,090
creates a little more uniqueness of the neighborhood

1598
02:21:08,090 --> 02:21:10,270
and as a more marketable in the long.

1599
02:21:10,450 --> 02:21:12,330
All we're trying to do is kind of keep some

1600
02:21:12,330 --> 02:21:15,010
of those basic elements in place.

1601
02:21:17,950 --> 02:21:24,810
We've tried to really limit the number of elements that we're imposing as building designs

1602
02:21:24,810 --> 02:21:25,990
within Zoma.

1603
02:21:26,050 --> 02:21:30,490
If you all feel it's governmental overreach, then I guess this is a good time to kind

1604
02:21:30,490 --> 02:21:33,130
of share with us where you think that's happening.

1605
02:21:33,130 --> 02:21:34,170
So,

1606
02:21:39,600 --> 02:21:47,400
we've, we've, from a staff perspective felt there are a lot of fairly simple and

1607
02:21:47,400 --> 02:21:56,540
affected ways for builders to provide a little bit of variety within the elevation with

1608
02:21:56,540 --> 02:22:02,780
the options that Jeff has just listed, and that doesn't really burden them in reference

1609
02:22:02,780 --> 02:22:09,940
to affordability or constructability of their houses, but it gives us at least a little bit

1610
02:22:10,580 --> 02:22:13,240
of uniqueness or change in the neighborhood.

1611
02:22:15,820 --> 02:22:17,500
Yeah, and I concur with having that option.

1612
02:22:17,740 --> 02:22:21,080
I do want to take a step back because Jeff, you don't get the present to us all that often.

1613
02:22:21,660 --> 02:22:27,000
So I wouldn't take it either because there is a ton that's been presented by Drew and Drew,

1614
02:22:27,160 --> 02:22:28,700
you're used to us pushing back on you.

1615
02:22:29,080 --> 02:22:29,980
So it's old hat.

1616
02:22:29,980 --> 02:22:34,620
But there's been so many great things in these slides,

1617
02:22:34,840 --> 02:22:37,420
these bullet points, and we're not stopping on the bullet points

1618
02:22:37,420 --> 02:22:38,440
where we agree with.

1619
02:22:39,120 --> 02:22:43,220
So I do want to stress that most of what you've presented,

1620
02:22:43,360 --> 02:22:45,780
a lot of the work you put into it, it's fantastic.

1621
02:22:46,100 --> 02:22:49,760
We love it, but we're only being vocal when we disagree.

1622
02:22:50,500 --> 02:22:53,360
And that's because you said, Andy, this is the time to do that.

1623
02:22:53,400 --> 02:22:56,060
This is the only time the five of us are allowed

1624
02:22:56,060 --> 02:22:57,820
to have a conversation together.

1625
02:22:57,820 --> 02:23:02,860
So I don't want this to come across as we're just hating your work. We're being negative.

1626
02:23:03,300 --> 02:23:10,720
But this is our literal only opportunity to have this kind of honest dialogue together with all of us in the same room.

1627
02:23:11,200 --> 02:23:15,940
So I do want to stress that Jeff, there is a fun and hear that we really appreciate what you've done.

1628
02:23:16,060 --> 02:23:17,620
We welcome the conversation.

1629
02:23:18,300 --> 02:23:25,380
And again, we did step back a little bit from the requirement on this particular section of the options,

1630
02:23:25,380 --> 02:23:32,940
where we had you shall choose three or four of these, now we say you may be accomplished with

1631
02:23:32,940 --> 02:23:36,840
these. So it's kind of more open-ended and how it's going to be enforced.

1632
02:23:39,140 --> 02:23:39,570
Thank you.

1633
02:23:42,120 --> 02:23:45,020
And example, we were just oops, I don't know why.

1634
02:23:49,410 --> 02:23:52,000
Here's example here is the exact same model

1635
02:23:53,070 --> 02:23:55,690
and just a different applications of the exterior treatment.

1636
02:23:59,500 --> 02:24:01,000
A good example of the single family

1637
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:05,120
I'm going to tell you what you've already, excuse me, Jeff.

1638
02:24:05,340 --> 02:24:05,860
Mr. Hardwood.

1639
02:24:06,520 --> 02:24:13,960
Well, and yeah, my thought on this is this is totally appropriate in every subdivision,

1640
02:24:14,100 --> 02:24:21,480
every new development, is going to have its own character and their vision for that particular

1641
02:24:21,480 --> 02:24:32,060
neighborhood and I think these are our lovely designs and and probably very appropriate in

1642
02:24:32,060 --> 02:24:41,140
individual neighborhoods. My concern is a blanket countywide where it may not be in a subdivision

1643
02:24:41,140 --> 02:24:50,020
in a homeowners association but it's it's just not a blanket thing that I'm comfortable with but

1644
02:24:50,020 --> 02:24:58,860
like I said within the individual development as they have that they express their vision for

1645
02:24:58,860 --> 02:25:06,560
how they want to develop, I think that's totally appropriate, but more with more areas specific.

1646
02:25:08,000 --> 02:25:12,580
Thank you. So a lot of these data came from the continual standard and proper list that's been

1647
02:25:12,580 --> 02:25:20,000
offered in what's the zoning cases today. So we took a lot of these just from what's been

1648
02:25:20,000 --> 02:25:22,800
and include some of them here.

1649
02:25:26,020 --> 02:25:30,440
An example is using porches to a private variety.

1650
02:25:33,420 --> 02:25:35,260
There's your brick, if we can make that all brick,

1651
02:25:35,380 --> 02:25:36,460
I think that would still be attractive.

1652
02:25:41,010 --> 02:25:42,510
So here, porches and stupes.

1653
02:25:43,010 --> 02:25:46,350
And this is, apparently, says applies to alleys and townhomes.

1654
02:25:46,750 --> 02:25:49,690
I'm not sure that's the correct way we want to apply this.

1655
02:25:49,810 --> 02:25:53,450
It may be better for any porches to have

1656
02:25:53,450 --> 02:25:56,210
either a continuous brick foundation or brick peers.

1657
02:25:57,170 --> 02:26:10,890
Here's an example of how the brick peers would be enclosed with a verbal material between the brick peers, and here's an example of the brick foundation on the forces themselves.

1658
02:26:13,900 --> 02:26:38,720
Sure. So, did we get to brick, because we want the look of brick, or we're looking for the quality of brick, is it a quality solution, so if it's quality solution, would we not say brick and or structural steel cast iron pillars, those types of things.

1659
02:26:38,720 --> 02:26:41,540
be in masonry standard, sure.

1660
02:26:41,880 --> 02:26:44,300
So are we asking for masonry or here?

1661
02:26:44,760 --> 02:26:50,020
Sorry, masonry or veneer, because I know a lot of builders, the front ends up being a veneer.

1662
02:26:50,420 --> 02:26:53,380
Right, so the veneer should be stone or brick, that time.

1663
02:26:54,420 --> 02:26:57,220
Again, cast quite wide breadth.

1664
02:26:58,240 --> 02:26:59,200
What is the quality issue?

1665
02:26:59,360 --> 02:27:01,300
I mean, it's durable, long-lasting.

1666
02:27:02,000 --> 02:27:07,840
There's a traditional employed material in the discipline area.

1667
02:27:08,680 --> 02:27:16,740
So if a developer came in, so if a developer came in and wanted to use aluminum, aluminum

1668
02:27:16,740 --> 02:27:24,240
peers, ornamental, aluminum supports for the front portures and things like that, that

1669
02:27:24,240 --> 02:27:27,420
wouldn't rot, wouldn't deteriorate, but it's not brick.

1670
02:27:28,780 --> 02:27:30,920
That wouldn't comply with the standard, obviously.

1671
02:27:32,920 --> 02:27:33,720
That's a problem.

1672
02:27:33,720 --> 02:27:36,500
You have an example of an aluminum support,

1673
02:27:39,190 --> 02:27:43,590
or this is an example of, yes, it could be anything, I don't understand that.

1674
02:27:44,730 --> 02:27:52,490
We can look at, I can go to where they used on back decks and on larger front portures, but

1675
02:27:53,210 --> 02:27:59,730
I can probably point some, actually I'm pretty sure if we were to ride around in the fan

1676
02:28:00,390 --> 02:28:04,570
In some of the rowhouses, they use cast iron ornamental pears

1677
02:28:05,410 --> 02:28:13,330
as opposed to work. So again, just kind of building upon the theme that's here, if we want

1678
02:28:13,330 --> 02:28:18,500
something there from a quality standpoint, quite frankly, the ordinance ought to convey,

1679
02:28:20,350 --> 02:28:26,930
it has to be material that won't have that kind of thing, but to say brick over something else,

1680
02:28:26,950 --> 02:28:33,840
that's a equal quality. And I just say, because we went to a time period, right, when you could put

1681
02:28:35,410 --> 02:28:39,550
You know, when vinyl siding was first coming out, you had vinyl siding, you had aluminum

1682
02:28:39,550 --> 02:28:40,990
siding and you had brick.

1683
02:28:41,810 --> 02:28:49,030
We were a heavy county on brick because the quality of brick was much better than the

1684
02:28:49,030 --> 02:28:54,950
original vinyl and the whole aluminum thing, right?

1685
02:28:56,770 --> 02:29:02,330
But, you know, we went through years there where we started getting hearty plank, we started

1686
02:29:02,330 --> 02:29:06,150
getting vinyl, that was much thicker in nature

1687
02:29:06,150 --> 02:29:08,210
started meeting higher quality standards.

1688
02:29:10,430 --> 02:29:12,090
And so again, being prescriptive,

1689
02:29:12,250 --> 02:29:15,230
that you must use brick versus vinyl,

1690
02:29:16,430 --> 02:29:19,570
because at the time vinyl wasn't of the quality,

1691
02:29:20,690 --> 02:29:23,690
when that's codified, we gotta go in and fix it down the way.

1692
02:29:24,070 --> 02:29:27,890
And it doesn't leave building change and design and consumer,

1693
02:29:28,710 --> 02:29:30,270
what they want to purchase,

1694
02:29:31,050 --> 02:29:32,690
doesn't leave us much room there.

1695
02:29:33,670 --> 02:29:36,590
So I'm perfectly fine with our ordinance embracing the idea

1696
02:29:36,590 --> 02:29:38,750
of you got to use materials that are going to last

1697
02:29:38,750 --> 02:29:42,010
or quality and sustainability or whatever we want to do there.

1698
02:29:43,590 --> 02:29:47,230
But just saying it has to be brick.

1699
02:29:49,110 --> 02:29:50,390
I'm not sure we want to get it.

1700
02:29:50,550 --> 02:29:51,850
That's just my opinion.

1701
02:29:52,230 --> 02:29:53,570
So I'm going to back up on actually,

1702
02:29:53,750 --> 02:29:55,610
you gave me an opportunity to talk about technology

1703
02:29:55,610 --> 02:29:56,190
which I love.

1704
02:29:56,190 --> 02:29:59,250
So, if we're enforcing durability,

1705
02:30:00,180 --> 02:30:09,700
And safety and the qualities of the material, as opposed to the specific materials, because we also have that newly 3 printed home on Route 60.

1706
02:30:10,820 --> 02:30:16,280
So we are coming up with new technologies that might be more durable and safer than brick.

1707
02:30:16,580 --> 02:30:23,220
And we are saying we're not going to accept that. So I think we want to focus on the quality of the material, not the material.

1708
02:30:23,220 --> 02:30:29,480
I think the enclosure of the porch area, the slide that's up there now, if we could show

1709
02:30:29,480 --> 02:30:30,860
it on the screen, maybe.

1710
02:30:31,940 --> 02:30:41,740
This is part of what we're trying to control is to have it be a more kind of solid foundation

1711
02:30:41,740 --> 02:30:45,160
construction around the edge of the porch.

1712
02:30:45,780 --> 02:30:52,220
If we need to re-word it to include other options other than Masonry, I think we can work

1713
02:30:52,220 --> 02:31:00,000
that for draft three. I do think the idea of trying to enclose the porch so that it doesn't

1714
02:31:00,000 --> 02:31:12,100
have kind of a vacant open section underneath the porch, especially on the front facade is an

1715
02:31:12,100 --> 02:31:18,880
important aspect we need to try to control. I don't know. You all feel about that. So that's part

1716
02:31:22,480 --> 02:31:31,820
And you reduce the void under the deck, by, you know, really shrubs in front of it.

1717
02:31:31,840 --> 02:31:37,520
So it was done in the 70s, and I'm not advocating we get back to the 70s, by the way.

1718
02:31:38,480 --> 02:31:40,380
Passive solar was a horrible idea,

1719
02:31:44,020 --> 02:31:45,260
but they built and they sold.

1720
02:31:49,390 --> 02:31:58,390
But if it's a visual concern, and again, some other folks would maybe somebody older,

1721
02:32:01,230 --> 02:32:01,770
I'm not going to get it.

1722
02:32:02,690 --> 02:32:04,730
But not everybody would be opposed to that one.

1723
02:32:05,690 --> 02:32:06,590
The top picture?

1724
02:32:07,690 --> 02:32:07,850
Okay.

1725
02:32:08,510 --> 02:32:14,330
And do you all feel that as government overreach for us to try to control the hat?

1726
02:32:17,140 --> 02:32:36,180
I mean, I'm saying open that definition up to include more durable quality materials whatever those are will figure out a language of that, but the idea where it's still the requirement that it's somehow enclosed and you can't

1727
02:32:37,380 --> 02:32:42,720
just see underneath the porch from the front from the driveway.

1728
02:32:43,660 --> 02:32:57,240
Yeah, I mean exactly, so the fact you can see under the porch doesn't bother me, I guess I go back to if they if they can prove it's durable and they can prove it's safe.

1729
02:32:58,220 --> 02:33:01,660
Those to me are criteria that we should absolutely make sure.

1730
02:33:01,840 --> 02:33:10,520
So if that's an unsafe porch or in 10 years that's going to start, you know, sinking into the ground because it was built poorly, we don't want that.

1731
02:33:10,520 --> 02:33:31,680
But if they can demonstrate that they've pulled off a durable quality, sustainable, safe structure, seeing under it, I think that goes back to the subjectiveness that I don't think I have the right to tell a landowner that they can't do that.

1732
02:33:34,760 --> 02:33:45,360
So I, I kind of feel this, I, my starter home will be my forever home due to all of our

1733
02:33:45,360 --> 02:33:54,020
shrink swell problems. It was built in the mid-80s. And, you know, the the Masonry, the brick

1734
02:33:54,020 --> 02:34:03,640
facade has cracked and cracked again. And so our front porch is basically built like that top one.

1735
02:34:03,640 --> 02:34:09,040
And we have finally addressed it with lattice.

1736
02:34:09,600 --> 02:34:14,100
It's everything's wood with lattice and plantings

1737
02:34:14,100 --> 02:34:16,780
to meet our subdivision requirements.

1738
02:34:18,040 --> 02:34:19,500
So I don't know.

1739
02:34:19,820 --> 02:34:23,040
You know, I'm in compliance with my subdivision,

1740
02:34:23,040 --> 02:34:27,020
our H-O-A architectural review,

1741
02:34:27,340 --> 02:34:28,900
as best as I can be.

1742
02:34:28,900 --> 02:34:34,980
And yeah, I don't know that it by specifying it must be brick.

1743
02:34:36,040 --> 02:34:39,340
I'm not comfortable with that.

1744
02:34:43,760 --> 02:34:44,360
Okay.

1745
02:34:44,680 --> 02:34:48,820
Well, I'm going to follow your response and contrary to that, if I may.

1746
02:34:49,260 --> 02:34:53,440
Is that you accepted these proffers on many, many zoning cases over the years.

1747
02:34:54,540 --> 02:35:00,700
For many developers and builders who have complied with these brick peers and purchase and foundations.

1748
02:35:01,660 --> 02:35:06,440
So, Jeff, your spot on, I like the ability that we can have that conversation.

1749
02:35:06,820 --> 02:35:11,880
So we can have the brick, and we absolutely should always have a path so that we can

1750
02:35:11,880 --> 02:35:12,760
have it.

1751
02:35:12,880 --> 02:35:16,160
But this is saying, we'll never have the choice to not have it.

1752
02:35:16,160 --> 02:35:19,040
So it's having a choice, I think, is what's important to us.

1753
02:35:19,160 --> 02:35:20,100
We're not saying we don't like brick.

1754
02:35:20,140 --> 02:35:21,040
We love brick.

1755
02:35:21,460 --> 02:35:22,740
We also like options.

1756
02:35:23,380 --> 02:35:28,360
If I, and then make a comparison about what we're thinking about right now, 15 years ago,

1757
02:35:28,360 --> 02:35:32,380
If you had an allergy and you had Clareton, you had to take Clareton, you had to go get it from

1758
02:35:32,380 --> 02:35:33,560
the pharmacy with prescription.

1759
02:35:34,600 --> 02:35:35,840
Now it's available over the counter.

1760
02:35:37,360 --> 02:35:41,320
We're taking what's prescription and looking at the over-the counter options now.

1761
02:35:42,880 --> 02:35:44,740
So it's another stage of evolution and zoning.

1762
02:35:45,960 --> 02:35:51,820
Just looking at it, while these things may have worked in the past, maybe it's time to

1763
02:35:51,820 --> 02:35:56,080
look at maybe we're not, maybe we're doing too much and some places maybe we're not doing

1764
02:35:56,080 --> 02:35:56,440
enough.

1765
02:35:56,440 --> 02:35:59,080
So, that's why we're kind of discussing this.

1766
02:35:59,140 --> 02:36:01,040
I don't think it's a slam or anything like that

1767
02:36:01,040 --> 02:36:02,820
and how we've done things in the past,

1768
02:36:03,120 --> 02:36:06,120
but how we've always done things in the past is changing.

1769
02:36:06,740 --> 02:36:09,780
So, this is what written what, in 1970,

1770
02:36:10,120 --> 02:36:11,440
this is 50-year-old's only ordinance.

1771
02:36:11,980 --> 02:36:12,740
A lot of things have changed.

1772
02:36:13,380 --> 02:36:14,580
So, I agree.

1773
02:36:15,620 --> 02:36:18,180
I do think one of the things we were trying to do

1774
02:36:18,180 --> 02:36:22,240
when we started, Zomad, was to try to take some of the

1775
02:36:23,540 --> 02:36:26,320
more regular negotiation that you all might have had

1776
02:36:26,320 --> 02:36:34,180
cases and tried to incorporate, codify that into the case, into the case so that it was something

1777
02:36:34,180 --> 02:36:40,260
you didn't have to, you know, ask for, demand, whatever, where you want to use for that.

1778
02:36:40,540 --> 02:36:45,560
But the idea that it was already kind of baked into that zoning district and we were trying

1779
02:36:45,560 --> 02:36:53,880
to include is what we thought were the basics in the ingredients that we felt, we could put

1780
02:36:53,880 --> 02:36:57,860
into those zoning districts with these building design standards.

1781
02:37:00,840 --> 02:37:05,860
We do have, we're going to be talking about it in the future sessions, the adjusted

1782
02:37:05,860 --> 02:37:11,920
proper method so that if someone came in and they had a great affordable housing project

1783
02:37:11,920 --> 02:37:16,860
and they were trying to get away from maybe some of these standards that those, some of those

1784
02:37:16,860 --> 02:37:22,900
adjusted proper options could be brought up with that specific case.

1785
02:37:22,900 --> 02:37:33,860
And it would be more of an exception or that was being made for that specific case because it was affordable or whatever, you know, argument they were making for that deal.

1786
02:37:34,340 --> 02:37:37,920
That's kind of the position staff was trying to make with this.

1787
02:37:37,980 --> 02:37:48,700
What I'm hearing kind of today was, you know, that maybe shouldn't be put into it and we should allow that to be just at the preference of the developer.

1788
02:37:48,700 --> 02:38:00,000
So we're just trying to get our hands around as to how far to go into putting in some of these general standards into the different zoning districts and

1789
02:38:03,460 --> 02:38:04,260
try to be quit.

1790
02:38:13,120 --> 02:38:17,000
I think when we're looking, I think when you're in your team we're looking at this

1791
02:38:21,000 --> 02:38:25,800
and I don't want to take which you just set out of context because I know you did mean anything by it.

1792
02:38:25,800 --> 02:38:31,160
we shouldn't, we should not be approaching ZOMOD.

1793
02:38:32,100 --> 02:38:34,900
At the standpoint, if we want to build something affordable,

1794
02:38:36,300 --> 02:38:39,800
we need exceptions to get us there.

1795
02:38:40,180 --> 02:38:43,460
You just said, well, through this week we can,

1796
02:38:43,460 --> 02:38:45,600
we stacked where you can ask for all these exceptions,

1797
02:38:46,140 --> 02:38:47,260
so we can do affordable.

1798
02:38:48,820 --> 02:38:50,200
You gotta turn the bus around.

1799
02:38:51,820 --> 02:38:54,520
If a develop in Jeff most of those proper conditions,

1800
02:38:54,520 --> 02:39:05,520
The developer came to us, they may have had some nudging by staff that this will help the case get along because let's just face it, staff does good job of that.

1801
02:39:06,020 --> 02:39:20,860
But a lot of times it's because the developers, the developers, the developers that come to us and they want to build the next magnolia green or the next whatever big development with all of the amenities and the price points and I kind of stuff.

1802
02:39:20,860 --> 02:39:26,860
This stuff isn't going to apply to them because they're going to meet or exceed with the

1803
02:39:26,860 --> 02:39:32,840
zoning ordinance that's asking for for the higher independence. We shouldn't worry about this,

1804
02:39:32,980 --> 02:39:38,020
right? But we also shouldn't base the ordinance around that type of construction.

1805
02:39:39,700 --> 02:39:46,060
The ordinance should be built to where we can build in Chesterfield County, a quality home,

1806
02:39:47,580 --> 02:39:55,220
There's a whole, Dr. Holton said, the whole affordable housing conversation is massive.

1807
02:39:55,740 --> 02:40:03,000
Our swim lane is zoning, land use and so forth, so the zoning ordinance is our place

1808
02:40:03,880 --> 02:40:13,620
to set forth the standards by which we can build housing of all types, but if we're looking

1809
02:40:13,620 --> 02:40:22,780
it's so mod and to say to build either one of those houses, requires the use of exceptions

1810
02:40:22,780 --> 02:40:28,020
for us to get there, then we're in the wrong place, go back to the drawing board.

1811
02:40:32,780 --> 02:40:37,540
So I thought, do we even see anybody bringing in the sad home for a starter home or affordability

1812
02:40:37,540 --> 02:40:37,920
anymore?

1813
02:40:38,280 --> 02:40:39,520
I mean, did you be impossible?

1814
02:40:40,280 --> 02:40:43,860
Is it affordable to build a small home and make a profit on it?

1815
02:40:44,000 --> 02:40:44,700
I don't know.

1816
02:40:44,700 --> 02:40:55,540
Okay, we eliminate our seminar and our non-Zoning and then they build it on the smaller lot and build a 2500 square feet on a smaller lot and so I don't think the option is there

1817
02:40:56,100 --> 02:40:58,180
for that if we

1818
02:40:58,180 --> 02:41:03,620
Said look if you want to smaller a lot you've got to build a smaller home and you've got to make it to where it's affordable

1819
02:41:03,620 --> 02:41:05,700
That would be how we need to approach it

1820
02:41:06,440 --> 02:41:12,800
I think right now they they try to cram as much as they can in the building envelope on the lot and I think that's one of the reasons

1821
02:41:12,800 --> 02:41:17,840
it's contributing to affordable housing not being theirs because they want to go up and out

1822
02:41:17,840 --> 02:41:23,980
and reduce setbacks and we end up with, you know, 2,500 square foot homes on, you know,

1823
02:41:24,260 --> 02:41:27,440
where you reach out your side window and you can have five of your neighbor next door in the morning

1824
02:41:27,440 --> 02:41:30,800
when you're drinking coffee. So that's kind of where we are.

1825
02:41:31,480 --> 02:41:33,520
I'll be in there really.

1826
02:41:34,660 --> 02:41:36,160
Let's just take a look at that.

1827
02:41:37,340 --> 02:41:40,920
You know, the idea about the smaller lot's sizes, you know,

1828
02:41:43,940 --> 02:41:44,660
you have small, you

1829
02:41:44,660 --> 02:41:48,060
can have small lot's sizes, but that doesn't mean that the price of the house is changed.

1830
02:41:48,620 --> 02:41:56,800
You know, so I think that, you know, we got to have more depth conversation that brings

1831
02:41:56,800 --> 02:41:57,520
to

1832
02:42:01,580 --> 02:42:03,580
the table,

1833
02:42:06,260 --> 02:42:10,800
more concrete, and I look at where I be when I say it. It's like a

1834
02:42:10,800 --> 02:42:18,380
assurance that it's going to be affordable. And I know that it's hard to do that within

1835
02:42:18,380 --> 02:42:25,960
the confines of Zoning. So I mean, you say you want a small lot size,

1836
02:42:28,180 --> 02:42:29,080
but next thing you know

1837
02:42:29,080 --> 02:42:37,280
houses are, you know, $450, $500,000. And, you know, what you approve to be affordable housing

1838
02:42:37,280 --> 02:42:45,500
or attainable housing becomes unattainable or unaffordable. And so I just wish that we had

1839
02:42:45,500 --> 02:42:54,100
some policy that could help ensure that the target is met when we say affordable or attainable

1840
02:42:56,000 --> 02:43:02,520
And I noticed that's the ongoing issue not only in just the field, but probably across the nation.

1841
02:43:03,220 --> 02:43:05,560
It's how do you do that?

1842
02:43:06,740 --> 02:43:11,760
And maybe Steve, I hate to pin it on you.

1843
02:43:12,500 --> 02:43:20,960
But maybe some research or reach out to some consultants or somebody that maybe help us out.

1844
02:43:20,960 --> 02:43:25,160
Because if not, we're going to have people

1845
02:43:25,160 --> 02:43:26,500
at a price out of our community.

1846
02:43:28,080 --> 02:43:29,760
And that's that's that.

1847
02:43:30,560 --> 02:43:33,620
And I'm not saying that for a public applause or anything,

1848
02:43:34,240 --> 02:43:36,100
it's just, it's going to be reality.

1849
02:43:38,880 --> 02:43:40,900
And I think also our seniors,

1850
02:43:40,900 --> 02:43:43,940
we have to really look for options for them

1851
02:43:43,940 --> 02:43:46,480
as they age and place and making sure

1852
02:43:46,480 --> 02:43:48,100
that they have the right style of housing

1853
02:43:48,100 --> 02:43:51,700
if it's their physical needs.

1854
02:43:54,420 --> 02:43:55,940
And so I think that, you know,

1855
02:43:56,060 --> 02:43:58,740
it's a larger question, you know,

1856
02:44:00,060 --> 02:44:02,940
and even if you get into affordability in terms of,

1857
02:44:04,100 --> 02:44:05,520
for rent products, you know,

1858
02:44:05,540 --> 02:44:09,140
that's why I'm a huge fan of the Maggie Walker Foundation,

1859
02:44:09,620 --> 02:44:15,960
huge fan of better housing coalition and project tones,

1860
02:44:15,960 --> 02:44:21,980
another number of organizations that are out here trying to do everything that they can to make sure

1861
02:44:22,860 --> 02:44:28,740
that people in our community are well taken care of. And I know I missed a larger list of other

1862
02:44:29,900 --> 02:44:35,440
agencies because it's going to take out a bit suit to get us there in terms of the number of agencies

1863
02:44:35,440 --> 02:44:41,380
to help out. So we can't do it all alone. The government can't do it by themselves. You know,

1864
02:44:41,380 --> 02:44:48,420
me that we need public-private non-profit partnerships in order to really ensure that our

1865
02:44:48,420 --> 02:44:54,520
county is a reflection of who we need to be.

1866
02:44:55,580 --> 02:44:56,660
So, yep.

1867
02:45:01,360 --> 02:45:29,980
Assuming that this were adopted as part of the zoning ordinance, these new standards, how would this affect existing property owners who had to undertake a major rehab of their house with, like if you're having to redo your porch, or, you know, make some kind of modification, because of aging in place, would they then have to do so?

1868
02:45:29,980 --> 02:45:37,460
to put in the brick facade and all of that, or would this be lit to add on a case by case basis?

1869
02:45:38,360 --> 02:45:44,580
If the ordinance was in effect required, there's to be brick peers instead of

1870
02:45:44,580 --> 02:45:50,000
or if it were six months, six posts on this courts, then yes, it would be required to comply.

1871
02:45:50,580 --> 02:45:55,660
I will say that it's owned both of these houses, and now it was going to rent them the section eight.

1872
02:45:55,660 --> 02:46:01,340
I would have to do a lot of work to this house on top of what would qualify for federal

1873
02:46:01,340 --> 02:46:02,160
assistance.

1874
02:46:02,800 --> 02:46:04,160
One of the bottom is well maintained.

1875
02:46:04,600 --> 02:46:10,360
It has a break and it stood the test of time, one on the top, as you can see, the poster

1876
02:46:10,360 --> 02:46:17,660
leaning is to be some work to do to make this an issue either way.

1877
02:46:20,430 --> 02:46:26,850
So, yeah, we would, if Zomod passed, or even with existing ordinance, we would be requiring

1878
02:46:26,850 --> 02:46:34,350
them to meet the standards that we have now in place for that porch add-on or what have you.

1879
02:46:34,450 --> 02:46:45,170
If we need, we'll take a closer look at some of this as we move forward with draftry.

1880
02:46:47,590 --> 02:46:51,950
Thank you, Commissioner Arden, because I had been looking at this through a lens of how does

1881
02:46:51,950 --> 02:46:58,450
this effect zoning cases, but you make a fantastic point that the ordinance isn't just about

1882
02:46:58,450 --> 02:47:04,110
our zoning cases, this is going to affect every landowner who just wants to modify their

1883
02:47:04,110 --> 02:47:08,330
existing homes, so we just really need to be careful about how far reaching this is.

1884
02:47:08,410 --> 02:47:15,390
These are the homes that people would have purchased in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s, and hopefully

1885
02:47:15,390 --> 02:47:32,890
They don't have the today's mortgage, but major repairs, major renovations upkeep would be a hardship on them, especially if they're older or on fixed incomes.

1886
02:47:36,860 --> 02:47:45,400
Sorry Jeff, I do want to get back to something you said a little bit earlier, I was just waiting my turn.

1887
02:47:46,380 --> 02:47:54,880
I appreciate that you've made the point that you and your staff have tried to look at all of the conditions from previous cases,

1888
02:47:55,960 --> 02:48:00,560
and just incorporate them into this to make our lives easier, make the application process faster for the developers,

1889
02:48:00,560 --> 02:48:06,640
for your staff and you truly are always looking out for ways to make the lives of everybody around you

1890
02:48:06,640 --> 02:48:11,040
better and easier. So I sincerely appreciate that and I know that is your intent.

1891
02:48:14,220 --> 02:48:20,800
What maybe is a result of that and that those are all good things but what I worry is

1892
02:48:22,020 --> 02:48:28,260
when we're doing a case by case basis and we're having those negotiations it's often about

1893
02:48:28,260 --> 02:48:32,500
All right, well, you know, if we give here, take there,

1894
02:48:32,700 --> 02:48:34,420
give there, and it is, it's a balance.

1895
02:48:35,200 --> 02:48:37,400
And a lot of times the consideration is,

1896
02:48:37,400 --> 02:48:40,100
well, we want it to be quality, but we also don't want

1897
02:48:40,100 --> 02:48:41,900
them to be a million dollar homes.

1898
02:48:42,760 --> 02:48:46,400
So if we take everything that we've been negotiating

1899
02:48:47,140 --> 02:48:51,120
and fake that into the base, the bar,

1900
02:48:51,760 --> 02:48:54,500
now we're starting at a much higher price point,

1901
02:48:55,140 --> 02:48:57,400
then we were in our previous negotiations

1902
02:48:57,400 --> 02:49:01,120
to try to get better quality without being cost prohibitive.

1903
02:49:02,960 --> 02:49:04,400
So while I'm going to say any intent,

1904
02:49:04,700 --> 02:49:10,500
I am cautious to bake in all of our standard negotiations

1905
02:49:11,180 --> 02:49:13,280
into the lowest common denominator.

1906
02:49:13,700 --> 02:49:16,740
And now we're going to negotiate from there up,

1907
02:49:17,160 --> 02:49:21,340
which, again, it's just going to become cost prohibitive for too many people.

1908
02:49:26,940 --> 02:49:27,820
All right, Jeff, I think you can go.

1909
02:49:27,820 --> 02:49:29,400
Your point was to all take him as hard.

1910
02:49:29,400 --> 02:49:33,800
that surely want to price people out of making improvements and help to their homes.

1911
02:49:36,280 --> 02:49:40,900
So this is a to address corner-side units on the sides.

1912
02:49:41,000 --> 02:49:46,900
Units sometimes the developer doesn't pay as much attention as you do to the front.

1913
02:49:47,400 --> 02:49:51,200
This top-right picture is sort of a bland side view.

1914
02:49:52,060 --> 02:49:57,920
Which would be enhanced with landscaping and showing on the bottom left of the applications and trees and some shrubs.

1915
02:49:57,920 --> 02:50:01,500
It kind of minimizes that blank wall.

1916
02:50:02,000 --> 02:50:07,320
I'm using an example of a side of a town home where they used wide moldings on the windows

1917
02:50:07,320 --> 02:50:09,520
and it helps to match the front.

1918
02:50:10,800 --> 02:50:18,160
A little more aggressive here is a window pattern on the side of this town home was required

1919
02:50:18,160 --> 02:50:25,060
to have a symmetry for the zoning elevations and they put these faux windows in where the windows

1920
02:50:25,060 --> 02:50:27,760
weren't fitting into the interior of the layout.

1921
02:50:31,090 --> 02:50:37,450
So, multifamily standards for architecture, mechanical screening, building length, and also get into commercial standards.

1922
02:50:39,430 --> 02:50:45,090
Today, we have a requirements and multifamily architecture to have harmonious proportions of avoidemoteness in the sods.

1923
02:50:45,770 --> 02:50:53,210
The sods have artificial variety, and these residential characters can be attained with balconies terraces,

1924
02:50:53,210 --> 02:50:56,290
regulation doors of windows, scrolls, shrill, and textualy, so-to-sodes,

1925
02:50:56,990 --> 02:51:00,710
architectural ornamentation, various roof lines, and other apartments such as lighting,

1926
02:51:00,930 --> 02:51:05,710
fixtures, and plantings. This isn't this ordinance today. We're posing here to have a little

1927
02:51:05,710 --> 02:51:11,050
bit more teeth and the ability to break up the building mass by having more offsets

1928
02:51:12,190 --> 02:51:18,510
front and back, and also break up the horizontal, the vertical mass by a horizontal

1929
02:51:18,510 --> 02:51:25,190
a layered design. So here's an example of how this is a prime example of how this would apply

1930
02:51:25,770 --> 02:51:30,410
with the offsets of the building, breaking up the mass of the building and the horizontal

1931
02:51:32,190 --> 02:51:38,530
variations of breaking up the verticality of the building. More examples of the existing

1932
02:51:39,310 --> 02:51:44,330
multifamily and sister field where this three layered design helps to break up the mass of the building

1933
02:51:44,330 --> 02:51:48,190
in the off-sets as well, help to minimize the mass.

1934
02:51:51,220 --> 02:51:53,520
Mechanical units, screening from multi-family dwellings,

1935
02:51:54,000 --> 02:51:57,180
we multi-family apartments, which we currently

1936
02:51:57,180 --> 02:51:59,560
have no standards, I don't know if we have

1937
02:51:59,560 --> 02:52:00,840
as the zoning case requirements,

1938
02:52:01,820 --> 02:52:04,140
to allow us to require screening of those.

1939
02:52:04,960 --> 02:52:06,820
We go back a couple of slides, I'm sorry.

1940
02:52:06,880 --> 02:52:09,920
I just want to make sure, this is a great conversation

1941
02:52:09,920 --> 02:52:11,040
where I have it.

1942
02:52:11,220 --> 02:52:13,000
And I don't want to keep buttoning them,

1943
02:52:13,120 --> 02:52:16,680
but I do want to try to get a feel for where you guys are.

1944
02:52:16,680 --> 02:52:25,280
And I think I understand where you are with single family development and maybe the government

1945
02:52:25,280 --> 02:52:28,120
over each on some of the elements and so forth.

1946
02:52:28,520 --> 02:52:29,120
I'm multi-family.

1947
02:52:29,180 --> 02:52:30,540
You feel the same way.

1948
02:52:31,240 --> 02:52:36,420
In the idea here is trying to create a little more variety to try to get some break-up

1949
02:52:36,420 --> 02:52:40,280
of verticality and we've gone too far and trying to do that too.

1950
02:52:40,640 --> 02:52:46,400
And that's what I just want to know, does that kind of stop at single family or do we need

1951
02:52:47,960 --> 02:53:10,140
When we deal with multifamily, sometimes we're having to really close to get, you know, from a staff perspective to get in the attractive building in place and putting it, making it into the district does seem to help staff and hopefully you know if you feel that's government over each week, you kind of need to know that too.

1952
02:53:13,760 --> 02:53:17,000
and somebody out there is going to call me a hypocrite.

1953
02:53:17,440 --> 02:53:20,000
I actually don't feel the same when it comes to multifamily.

1954
02:53:20,340 --> 02:53:24,920
And the reason being is when we're talking about single family,

1955
02:53:25,480 --> 02:53:26,760
right, single family.

1956
02:53:27,480 --> 02:53:30,160
And we're talking about literally the cost of homeownership

1957
02:53:30,160 --> 02:53:31,780
and things like that.

1958
02:53:33,620 --> 02:53:36,060
I just have a little bit more of a fundamental belief

1959
02:53:36,060 --> 02:53:38,800
that consumer choice in having some market forces

1960
02:53:38,800 --> 02:53:42,780
that play there are more important.

1961
02:53:42,780 --> 02:53:47,680
And when we're talking about the cost and position,

1962
02:53:49,840 --> 02:53:53,780
the cost of putting recommendations around

1963
02:53:53,780 --> 02:53:58,560
approaches and stuff versus something of equally high quality, perhaps.

1964
02:53:59,060 --> 02:54:02,660
There's big cost differences that boil down to one family

1965
02:54:02,660 --> 02:54:05,500
in a mortgage, that kind of thing.

1966
02:54:05,920 --> 02:54:07,920
We're talking about a single family home.

1967
02:54:07,920 --> 02:54:13,980
Um, this, you know, very often these projects take up multiple city blocks, they're big

1968
02:54:13,980 --> 02:54:23,140
imposing facilities and, um, um, that, that we may not find the same willingness on the

1969
02:54:23,140 --> 02:54:30,280
part of a developer to want and add, I mean, in our, again, personal experiences, we found

1970
02:54:30,280 --> 02:54:36,100
where certain developers aren't as accepting of putting small balconies on and some of the

1971
02:54:36,960 --> 02:54:41,380
because they're concerned about what's going on inside those walls, very often the tenants,

1972
02:54:41,980 --> 02:54:45,420
or the renters are concerned with what the inside of their apartment looks like,

1973
02:54:45,460 --> 02:54:52,180
and it's just not as much consumer driven input on what exterior's look.

1974
02:54:52,300 --> 02:54:54,260
I mean, for some yes, but for some no.

1975
02:54:54,360 --> 02:55:04,900
So I think to have to be a little bit more forward in variations and some of the elements on,

1976
02:55:04,900 --> 02:55:12,240
large or multi-family, big, and housing structures, I feel a little bit different about that.

1977
02:55:13,120 --> 02:55:17,740
So, Mr. Doug, I appreciate you moving us back to this slide because that's a great question.

1978
02:55:17,960 --> 02:55:25,520
And I lean toward Commissioner Sloan here because this is a commercial product, not a residential

1979
02:55:25,520 --> 02:55:32,060
product. So, you do have the, you know, the economies of scale where you're building the masses

1980
02:55:32,060 --> 02:55:37,540
and it's divided by more residents and those residents are rentals.

1981
02:55:38,200 --> 02:55:41,080
So at the end of the day, this is a business being run.

1982
02:55:41,780 --> 02:55:47,320
There's not equity being built up by our citizens in a product like this.

1983
02:55:47,700 --> 02:55:52,040
So there are enough variances to help this commercial product

1984
02:55:52,040 --> 02:55:56,580
is different than somebody trying to start a home in our community

1985
02:55:56,580 --> 02:55:59,360
that I think does have different considerations.

1986
02:55:59,920 --> 02:56:04,700
Now, there might still be some things in here that maybe we could dial it back a little bit,

1987
02:56:04,980 --> 02:56:09,960
but for the most part, I don't currently have any angst over what you're proposing

1988
02:56:09,960 --> 02:56:11,340
for multi-family.

1989
02:56:14,330 --> 02:56:18,030
Do you need the rest of you to have a opinion on that?

1990
02:56:18,970 --> 02:56:20,270
Yeah, I agree with everybody.

1991
02:56:21,830 --> 02:56:25,810
I definitely don't want to see HVAC units on the front of buildings.

1992
02:56:26,490 --> 02:56:28,290
I think that doesn't look well.

1993
02:56:30,250 --> 02:56:36,910
There's example of that in another locality that I pass by quite frequently and I despise

1994
02:56:36,910 --> 02:56:39,210
the look of that, I don't think it looks good.

1995
02:56:41,910 --> 02:56:52,230
So I think that also, if it's viewed, I think it needs to have a screen on it also, so I think

1996
02:56:52,230 --> 02:56:59,050
And one thing we got to think about is as these apartments age, how they look as they age.

1997
02:57:00,690 --> 02:57:06,270
And it's hard to attract new development next to

1998
02:57:08,280 --> 02:57:12,740
a project that's old that doesn't look good.

1999
02:57:13,380 --> 02:57:20,800
So, and we could make sure that architectural standards are in place throughout the life cycle of that building.

2000
02:57:20,800 --> 02:57:32,490
And I think we'll have a easier time in future generations with redevelopment, so that's

2001
02:57:32,490 --> 02:57:33,390
my major concern.

2002
02:57:41,730 --> 02:57:47,130
So, yes, we're talking about the Canclet Unit Screening here to an example of the HVAC units

2003
02:57:47,130 --> 02:57:52,170
on the back of this apartment building, as you can see in the far distances of screened up

2004
02:57:52,170 --> 02:57:56,370
close to you can see the outlines of the units, but they're pretty well screened by this

2005
02:57:56,370 --> 02:57:58,070
lattice which allows the air flow.

2006
02:58:00,820 --> 02:58:07,200
So with maximum building length, we currently have no standards for that for multi-family as well.

2007
02:58:07,880 --> 02:58:16,320
This proposals are 250 feet maximum length in the traditional transition residential district and 400 feet in the urban residential district.

2008
02:58:17,000 --> 02:58:24,000
And to provide breezeways to allow for customer access through the building from front to rear.

2009
02:58:25,040 --> 02:58:28,660
The access would be lighted in decorative and design, playing a director may have put

2010
02:58:28,660 --> 02:58:31,160
all the alternatives that allow for pedestrian circulation.

2011
02:58:31,960 --> 02:58:37,020
It's an example of a fairly large building that has a passageway through the building

2012
02:58:37,700 --> 02:58:39,660
in the middle of these two sections.

2013
02:58:43,930 --> 02:58:46,550
We move on to commercial standards now.

2014
02:58:47,710 --> 02:58:51,950
Architecture within projects, architectural themes, established promote consistent architectural

2015
02:58:51,950 --> 02:58:52,670
treatment of buildings.

2016
02:58:52,790 --> 02:58:54,190
This is in the ordinance today.

2017
02:58:54,430 --> 02:58:55,670
This has this word a little bit differently.

2018
02:58:55,670 --> 02:58:58,090
This is written graphic description,

2019
02:58:58,270 --> 02:59:00,310
an exterior color material style,

2020
02:59:00,830 --> 02:59:03,210
and building scales are maybe submitted for approval.

2021
02:59:04,070 --> 02:59:05,310
And within Project Architecture,

2022
02:59:05,490 --> 02:59:07,050
we'll treat building materials, colors,

2023
02:59:07,170 --> 02:59:08,130
and style shall be compatible.

2024
02:59:09,430 --> 02:59:12,110
That's pretty much what we have today

2025
02:59:12,110 --> 02:59:13,190
for commercial standards.

2026
02:59:14,210 --> 02:59:17,270
The architectural theme is required to

2027
02:59:18,490 --> 02:59:20,110
for my consistent compatible colors,

2028
02:59:20,270 --> 02:59:21,390
break up the mass of the buildings,

2029
02:59:22,330 --> 02:59:23,790
allow for a pedestrian scale environment

2030
02:59:23,790 --> 02:59:28,470
the parking in the buildings and allow buildings within the same block and directly across the road

2031
02:59:28,470 --> 02:59:29,750
have a compatible architecture.

2032
02:59:32,810 --> 02:59:35,310
Here's an example of an architectural theme has consistent

2033
02:59:36,430 --> 02:59:43,150
architectural treatment and materials throughout the project. It has a nice interaction between

2034
02:59:43,150 --> 02:59:52,050
the outside and inside with the outdoor patios versus another benefit. Here's an example of

2035
02:59:52,050 --> 02:59:59,110
The variety of materials that can be pulled together to provide a consistent overall look, and this is the project again on 360 year.

2036
03:00:02,160 --> 03:00:29,980
I've got a question. I have a question. So the theme of this one and the one farther up through 60 would, if across the street got developed, across from charred and mission barbecue and all of that, would those have to be consistent with what's across the street, are you talking about more across the street as in kind of the alleyway on the street?

2037
03:00:29,980 --> 03:00:32,000
the same side of the highway.

2038
03:00:32,440 --> 03:00:36,580
We looked to have some consistency with the buildings of this kind of building here so much

2039
03:00:36,580 --> 03:00:44,360
similar in style to the Hancock Village across the street. It's different because it's

2040
03:00:44,360 --> 03:00:45,080
not so much machinery,

2041
03:00:47,180 --> 03:00:50,240
but that was a benefit to help the scholars sort of the intellectual style

2042
03:00:50,240 --> 03:00:56,980
of this corridor and this section of the corridor. As far as the development would require

2043
03:00:57,640 --> 03:01:02,340
We're on a read it up that whole site and if that's something else, we wouldn't necessarily make this style.

2044
03:01:03,040 --> 03:01:09,120
I would like to have the colors compatible or it wouldn't force this on anybody else.

2045
03:01:09,960 --> 03:01:10,260
Okay.

2046
03:01:10,280 --> 03:01:10,800
That's a question.

2047
03:01:11,040 --> 03:01:12,560
That's the tie-in somehow.

2048
03:01:12,820 --> 03:01:14,860
The tie-in doesn't have to be in modern style.

2049
03:01:15,080 --> 03:01:16,000
And that'll have to be there.

2050
03:01:16,400 --> 03:01:17,840
Go right in the form.

2051
03:01:18,280 --> 03:01:18,800
What kind of building?

2052
03:01:19,500 --> 03:01:26,960
I think that's a good example of pulling certain elements from one side of the street and trying to

2053
03:01:28,020 --> 03:01:33,480
And it's clear that they've done this. I know this property and right across from Hancock Village.

2054
03:01:33,760 --> 03:01:38,960
It's pretty clear that that's compatible, but yeah, across the street from the other, you know,

2055
03:01:39,080 --> 03:01:43,960
it still woods, though, didn't know if that would or partially wood.

2056
03:01:44,000 --> 03:01:49,240
It isn't it, or am I getting, maybe getting it. Is it right across from Benfish?

2057
03:01:49,980 --> 03:01:52,440
Oh, the other problem with yes. Oh, okay. All right.

2058
03:01:52,440 --> 03:01:56,020
Yeah, I think there's wood closer to the bridge you're talking about.

2059
03:01:58,240 --> 03:02:02,540
And that's part of the, thank you.

2060
03:02:03,040 --> 03:02:04,780
So this is actually a Hancock village.

2061
03:02:05,600 --> 03:02:09,060
This is a requirement from a mechanical equipment screen, which we already have in the ordinance.

2062
03:02:10,640 --> 03:02:16,080
You can see the rooftop units on this building, which we're screened by the parapet wall around it.

2063
03:02:16,940 --> 03:02:18,920
So it's very well integrated to the architecture of the building.

2064
03:02:19,140 --> 03:02:25,540
So instead of seeing these, the top of the top of this roof line, we see nice clean architectural lines.

2065
03:02:25,540 --> 03:02:29,740
and just in track of building on

2066
03:02:32,680 --> 03:02:37,120
the ground level, you have a variety of examples of

2067
03:02:37,120 --> 03:02:43,760
add example and another counting hours where junction boxes and utility boxes were put

2068
03:02:43,760 --> 03:02:56,240
on the building and not properly addressed to the left. There are similar mountains on the

2069
03:02:57,200 --> 03:03:05,060
Dunkin' Donuts had a challenge with their mechanical equipment and our planners are able to work a good solution to bring this problem out of use.

2070
03:03:09,190 --> 03:03:14,670
So an interest is to, along the corridors, it is to residence on districts.

2071
03:03:16,270 --> 03:03:22,950
In the mixed use districts today, we require those buildings to be architectural in nature at the interest of the communities.

2072
03:03:22,950 --> 03:03:28,230
On the upper right here is the old friendly buildings that have been converted to a barbecues.

2073
03:03:28,310 --> 03:03:33,870
Thousands of interesting deer run, the bottom is a building that is a village of in Lothian.

2074
03:03:35,030 --> 03:03:38,160
Access to neighborhood north of the Lothian farm plant.

2075
03:03:45,140 --> 03:03:56,420
The commercial horticultural horticultural also integrates many of the architectural and site standards for the 360 west corridor, which require pedestrian elements to be included.

2076
03:03:56,420 --> 03:04:01,800
those exteriors moving into the next use district.

2077
03:04:01,800 --> 03:04:09,480
There's an example in Chester where they brought a storefront on the bottom floor with the

2078
03:04:09,480 --> 03:04:10,460
apartments above,

2079
03:04:14,650 --> 03:04:21,270
parking decks can be tricky and expensive so we're going to be somewhat

2080
03:04:21,270 --> 03:04:26,810
acknowledged at the back that these structures which are very expensive and still need to be

2081
03:04:26,810 --> 03:04:33,270
compatible of the buildings. Here's your operating buildings building, as you can see, is also

2082
03:04:33,270 --> 03:04:38,110
made of concrete panels, and it kind of reflects this pattern on the deck that

2083
03:04:38,110 --> 03:04:42,430
it efficiently. You can look at closely. You see this corner of the building reflects

2084
03:04:42,430 --> 03:04:47,190
the curvature of the office building, and it also picks on some of the characteristics

2085
03:04:47,190 --> 03:04:54,550
of the grid pattern on the building integrated into panels of the parking deck.

2086
03:04:58,200 --> 03:04:58,840
For example,

2087
03:04:58,840 --> 03:05:06,260
to make sure it's district that we're dining integrated to the element on the ground floor

2088
03:05:06,260 --> 03:05:08,960
restaurant, restaurants of apartments above,

2089
03:05:11,730 --> 03:05:14,930
now the employment district standards are obviously

2090
03:05:14,930 --> 03:05:19,990
we have large buildings that need to be addressed some way, and here's the surface pattern

2091
03:05:19,990 --> 03:05:25,250
that helps to break up the long nearer view of the project, and some way it's keeping the

2092
03:05:25,250 --> 03:05:31,670
fills in that'll look a lot better as well. Here's an example of employment district standard

2093
03:05:31,670 --> 03:05:36,290
where the operating as the mechanical equipment was on the lovers,

2094
03:05:41,940 --> 03:05:42,720
and that will

2095
03:05:42,720 --> 03:05:46,600
conclude the building design aspects of this presentation. Any questions?

2096
03:05:47,920 --> 03:05:54,300
I want Jeff, do we have anything around solar panels and how those could be on top

2097
03:05:54,300 --> 03:05:59,800
of buildings? We do not currently have any ordinance requirements for how that's done,

2098
03:05:59,900 --> 03:06:05,800
except we want them to be integrated into the roof and not angled differently than the roof.

2099
03:06:05,800 --> 03:06:12,100
So that's what we look forward, and the application of solar panels on the roofs, and they're

2100
03:06:12,100 --> 03:06:18,680
in the same plane as the roof line, which I'm sorry, Frank, what are our ordinances said

2101
03:06:18,680 --> 03:06:22,120
if anything about placement of solar panels on rooftops?

2102
03:06:22,640 --> 03:06:27,960
We have, it's under the uses, it's a restricted use in all districts, and I think we talk about

2103
03:06:29,380 --> 03:06:35,780
a distance off the roof, I believe there's restrictions with it, and we can go into those

2104
03:06:36,560 --> 03:06:40,800
at another time where we can go into that now if you want, it's listed with the use matrix.

2105
03:06:41,480 --> 03:06:43,800
No, we don't have to go into it now, I was just making sure we...

2106
03:06:44,340 --> 03:06:47,380
But the roof amount of we encourage everywhere, it's if they're ground-mounted,

2107
03:06:47,520 --> 03:06:50,480
we have a little bit more to them.

2108
03:06:50,660 --> 03:06:56,180
If you're asking if we're requiring screening of the roof-mounted solar panel,

2109
03:06:56,380 --> 03:06:57,180
we do not.

2110
03:06:57,420 --> 03:07:02,460
I just want to screening orientation, like, can't be facing a main arteriologist.

2111
03:07:02,460 --> 03:07:08,060
I was just wondering now just to hide off the roof I think is what we have on roof mounted and then for the ground

2112
03:07:08,060 --> 03:07:13,500
I know we have some other standards. We have anything in there about parking lot solar panel canopies

2113
03:07:15,760 --> 03:07:17,740
So that's why the loading that

2114
03:07:32,880 --> 03:07:38,260
So before I get into my sections I believe we're gonna let Mark White are consultant Sean in a bit

2115
03:07:39,280 --> 03:07:40,620
Okay. Certainly.

2116
03:07:43,070 --> 03:07:46,230
Thomas, you had the slides I put together up.

2117
03:07:50,290 --> 03:07:50,910
There we go.

2118
03:07:51,570 --> 03:07:52,510
Just a few comments.

2119
03:07:52,530 --> 03:07:54,590
This was a great discussion on design

2120
03:07:54,590 --> 03:07:58,870
and I appreciate the direction you all gave us,

2121
03:07:59,170 --> 03:08:01,830
especially when it comes to single family.

2122
03:08:01,990 --> 03:08:06,810
But this came up just in a lot of the similar comments came up

2123
03:08:07,350 --> 03:08:10,570
last week when we discussed this with the committee.

2124
03:08:12,090 --> 03:08:18,370
And just some justifications we put together for why we even regulate design in the first place,

2125
03:08:18,630 --> 03:08:27,230
because we're occurring question, and it's similar to things that Mr. Trasky, Mr. Sloan, brought up today.

2126
03:08:27,530 --> 03:08:30,910
You know, why not let the market just control everything?

2127
03:08:32,530 --> 03:08:35,570
And these are just some thoughts on why we do this.

2128
03:08:35,570 --> 03:08:39,090
And it's not a static to me.

2129
03:08:39,250 --> 03:08:42,470
I try not to justify any of this on a static.

2130
03:08:42,510 --> 03:08:44,190
There are a lot of other considerations

2131
03:08:44,190 --> 03:08:46,050
that are even more important than that.

2132
03:08:46,330 --> 03:08:50,750
And one is that everything you build in the county affects

2133
03:08:50,750 --> 03:08:51,630
the public realm.

2134
03:08:51,830 --> 03:08:54,810
It's everything that everybody sees in experiences

2135
03:08:55,630 --> 03:08:58,330
when they drive or walk through a community.

2136
03:08:59,610 --> 03:09:02,050
We are introducing for the first time a mixed use

2137
03:09:02,050 --> 03:09:04,730
district, which is a different pattern of development

2138
03:09:04,730 --> 03:09:10,950
than the counties seen before, and if you don't have the right design standards in place

2139
03:09:10,950 --> 03:09:19,290
it just doesn't function the same way. And so that's that undergirds a lot of you know

2140
03:09:19,290 --> 03:09:25,750
what's in the design, the building design standards, and the amenity space. That's why, for

2141
03:09:25,750 --> 03:09:31,470
example, the amenity space, we expanded those to 22 different options. That's a bigger

2142
03:09:31,470 --> 03:09:38,230
set of options. I've done, you know, I've done zoning codes in over 36 states for about close

2143
03:09:38,230 --> 03:09:45,650
to 35 years for over 150 chemis. I've never seen a set of options that large in RICO County

2144
03:09:45,650 --> 03:09:54,490
has seven options, for example, in their open space requirements, which also apply to just to

2145
03:09:54,490 --> 03:09:58,870
both residential and commercial. We call it a amenity space, because it's just not accurate to

2146
03:09:59,650 --> 03:10:01,770
open space, you know, urban

2147
03:10:01,770 --> 03:10:03,710
places, not with most people

2148
03:10:03,710 --> 03:10:05,190
think of a open space, but it

2149
03:10:05,190 --> 03:10:06,990
isn't a amenity for that

2150
03:10:06,990 --> 03:10:08,950
community. And once that

2151
03:10:08,950 --> 03:10:10,470
development occurs, it's not

2152
03:10:10,470 --> 03:10:11,750
you're not going to go back and

2153
03:10:11,750 --> 03:10:13,830
redo it. And you know, it's

2154
03:10:13,830 --> 03:10:15,310
and it's also not to say that

2155
03:10:15,870 --> 03:10:17,050
without the standards, everything

2156
03:10:17,050 --> 03:10:18,410
is going to be bad. And that

2157
03:10:18,410 --> 03:10:20,810
you know, the comments earlier

2158
03:10:21,390 --> 03:10:22,930
that a commissioner hardened

2159
03:10:22,930 --> 03:10:25,130
and others talked about where

2160
03:10:25,130 --> 03:10:26,670
you have some older communities

2161
03:10:26,670 --> 03:10:27,970
that were built without the

2162
03:10:27,970 --> 03:10:33,470
in their occupied people are happy there, they've made improvements, they've held their

2163
03:10:33,470 --> 03:10:40,530
value, but we want to make sure that it's been a big part of this whole project that

2164
03:10:40,530 --> 03:10:48,230
development that comes our way meets the county's expectations without constantly having

2165
03:10:48,230 --> 03:10:54,850
to negotiate everything. And in fact, in our first or second meeting with the committee several

2166
03:10:54,850 --> 03:11:01,050
years ago. That's something we got unanimous agreement on. Let's make sure that when we want

2167
03:11:01,050 --> 03:11:06,530
something, you can look at the ordinance and know what the county expects up you, that we can

2168
03:11:06,530 --> 03:11:12,230
know what the county expects of us as applicants before we go talk to the Planning Commission

2169
03:11:12,230 --> 03:11:19,030
in Board of Supervisors. And that's what we're getting to, I think Mr. Sloan picked up on this

2170
03:11:19,030 --> 03:11:24,770
earlier when he said well this is all this is all flexible but we've all made it precise

2171
03:11:24,770 --> 03:11:29,450
well that's exactly what we're trying to get to we're trying to hit the best of both worlds

2172
03:11:29,450 --> 03:11:34,570
the number one request I get from the development community is you know quit negotiating

2173
03:11:34,570 --> 03:11:41,190
everything and quit with this these ambiguous standards just tell us what you want

2174
03:11:41,190 --> 03:11:46,390
and that's exactly what we've tried to achieve in the ordinance we know we're not there yet

2175
03:11:46,390 --> 03:11:51,330
your your comments and your direction and really helpful so we appreciate that.

2176
03:11:52,170 --> 03:11:56,730
Secondly, a lot of this follows directly from your conference of plan policies relating

2177
03:11:56,730 --> 03:12:02,970
to things like accessibility, community identity, the character of Chesterfield County

2178
03:12:02,970 --> 03:12:04,030
connectivity.

2179
03:12:04,430 --> 03:12:10,030
We're drew shows you some examples of amenity space that are just connections between places

2180
03:12:10,030 --> 03:12:18,510
that we're trying to create an easy way for people to do the right thing, and that's one way

2181
03:12:18,510 --> 03:12:24,910
to do it, in quality, which is an overriding set of policies in your comprehensive plan.

2182
03:12:25,590 --> 03:12:33,350
In addition to the plan, we did a lot of public outreach early on, and the number one thing

2183
03:12:33,350 --> 03:12:39,370
we heard from the community was things like open space, make sure that's a part of all

2184
03:12:39,370 --> 03:12:44,930
development. We've responded with the standards. We know there's long-term maintenance issues

2185
03:12:44,930 --> 03:12:52,330
and we'll come back to you with some of those. You know, some responses to some of the really

2186
03:12:52,330 --> 03:12:58,010
good concerns that were raised earlier, but we want to make sure those spaces are created to

2187
03:12:58,010 --> 03:13:04,090
begin with because we lose that opportunity once that subdivision occurs. And we want to get there

2188
03:13:04,090 --> 03:13:10,470
without having to just determine those conditions on a case-by-case with CUPD review.

2189
03:13:12,250 --> 03:13:19,530
And as it came up earlier with building design, this all follows the history of development,

2190
03:13:19,530 --> 03:13:25,050
not just from the past 15 years ago, it's happened over the last couple years.

2191
03:13:25,790 --> 03:13:28,710
The strategic amenity space standards that were adopted.

2192
03:13:28,710 --> 03:13:36,070
these are very recent things that were fought for, that were vetted, and we didn't want to lose them.

2193
03:13:36,930 --> 03:13:43,290
And then the marketplace, I feel a lot of the, you know, personally, you know, as a consultant,

2194
03:13:43,490 --> 03:13:49,510
I feel a lot of the same, same ways, you know, Mr. Petroski feels what he says, you know,

2195
03:13:49,630 --> 03:13:54,970
let's, let's set the market control and we're trying to do that as much as possible while moving

2196
03:13:54,970 --> 03:14:01,850
development in the direction of the county conference of plan to make sure that, making

2197
03:14:01,850 --> 03:14:07,190
sure that development aligns that the outcomes explained and adopted in your conference

2198
03:14:07,190 --> 03:14:07,650
of plan.

2199
03:14:07,690 --> 03:14:13,830
Policies, we want to get people as a broad and opportunity to comply as we can.

2200
03:14:13,950 --> 03:14:18,890
We want to give them as many options as they can without having to come in and negotiate

2201
03:14:19,650 --> 03:14:20,170
everything.

2202
03:14:20,170 --> 03:14:26,070
and we want to accommodate a broader range of uses, a broader range of housing types, for

2203
03:14:26,070 --> 03:14:33,210
example, but with better design. And this is an example. And again, maybe you're not

2204
03:14:33,210 --> 03:14:40,110
offended by the image on the left. If you go to the next slide, for example, maybe you're

2205
03:14:40,110 --> 03:14:50,150
not offended by the image on the left. That's a duplex with no design standards. The one on

2206
03:14:50,150 --> 03:14:55,970
parking in the back and a prominent front porch and a walkway that connects the building

2207
03:14:55,970 --> 03:14:56,990
in the street.

2208
03:14:57,310 --> 03:14:59,970
I can tell you the image on the left was another...

2209
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:29,900
In your community, I worked in some years ago where these were built because the zoning district just said you can build dueplexes, but they didn't regulate design. And when they saw this, their solution was, well, this was before we worked with them. I want to clarify, but they just said, well, in this district, we're not going to allow dueplexes anymore, which to me seemed very extreme. Now we've lost a housing type to the marketplace. We've lost a housing type that's affordable to a lot of people.

2210
03:15:30,000 --> 03:15:42,400
And the reason we lost that housing type is we didn't have an appropriate and reasonable set of design standards that would make something like that acceptable to the public.

2211
03:15:43,760 --> 03:15:48,180
I also wanted to jump in quickly on something, you know, Mr. Hilton brought up.

2212
03:15:48,300 --> 03:15:50,960
So really good questions about how we address affordability.

2213
03:15:50,960 --> 03:15:58,620
I'm also the former board chair of a non-profit CDC that build affordable housing in my community

2214
03:15:59,310 --> 03:16:00,260
that I live in.

2215
03:16:00,260 --> 03:16:05,520
I've dealt with this whole issue for years and years in the Virginia, the Code of Virginia

2216
03:16:05,520 --> 03:16:12,920
addresses one type which is very surgical and makes sure that once you build something like

2217
03:16:12,920 --> 03:16:19,000
this, once you build that missing middle housing, that's up a scale that's typically affordable,

2218
03:16:19,000 --> 03:16:23,820
But you know, we don't know, housing on small lots can also be very expensive.

2219
03:16:24,300 --> 03:16:30,220
It can have a high level of design and building materials and things like that, and maybe the

2220
03:16:30,220 --> 03:16:35,080
the income levels in the community are high enough that developers can build on those small lots

2221
03:16:35,080 --> 03:16:40,140
and sell them at prices that are unaffordable to a lot of people who work here now,

2222
03:16:40,640 --> 03:16:44,940
who teach school and fight fires and fight crime and those sorts of things.

2223
03:16:45,360 --> 03:16:48,220
And we want to make sure there's room for those types of units.

2224
03:16:48,220 --> 03:16:56,240
So, you know, one level of this is inclusionary zoning, and, you know, some, there's several different statutes.

2225
03:16:56,400 --> 03:17:00,540
We'd have to go back and see which one applies to Chesterfield County.

2226
03:17:00,880 --> 03:17:09,200
It makes sure that once those units are made available, that they are marketed and sold or rented to people at certain income levels.

2227
03:17:10,120 --> 03:17:11,560
That need those affordable units.

2228
03:17:11,800 --> 03:17:13,860
It's also a very complicated system.

2229
03:17:13,860 --> 03:17:22,600
Obviously, that process of making sure those units remain affordable is complex from the staff perspective.

2230
03:17:22,860 --> 03:17:29,000
I mean, we'd have to have staff people taking time to make sure that we monitor that.

2231
03:17:30,180 --> 03:17:34,580
It's also intrusive from the developer side.

2232
03:17:34,680 --> 03:17:42,400
They have a number of other hoops to jump through to make sure that they comply with those inclusionary zoning requirements.

2233
03:17:42,400 --> 03:17:48,900
It's an Virginia, I believe, the statute that we'd operate under would only allow that if it's incentive based.

2234
03:17:49,500 --> 03:17:58,820
So we would have to tie that to increases intensity, maybe to reductions in amenity space requirements, or building design requirements, or so forth.

2235
03:17:59,620 --> 03:18:09,600
And you know, you know, I know Mr. Sloan doesn't like something that requires exceptions, but this would be something that you wouldn't have to go through the proper exception process to get.

2236
03:18:09,600 --> 03:18:18,800
It's just an alternative set of standards in the ordinance and if you qualify for that then these other things kick in and they solve the problem that Mr.

2237
03:18:18,900 --> 03:18:33,320
Hilton addressed earlier, which is making sure that those houses on the small lots are not at the end of the day unaffordable to the people we intended them to be affordable too, but it also does involve a very high level of supervision.

2238
03:18:34,500 --> 03:18:41,000
Another alternative is just to say if you include different product types as part of your

2239
03:18:41,000 --> 03:18:41,340
plant.

2240
03:18:41,600 --> 03:18:50,060
If your plant includes town homes, doplexes, fourplexes, triplexes, et cetera.

2241
03:18:50,760 --> 03:18:57,360
If you have certain, you know, whatever other kinds of standards we want to attest to

2242
03:18:57,360 --> 03:19:00,480
those, maybe they're on alleys, et cetera.

2243
03:19:01,280 --> 03:19:07,340
Then we ratchet back on, maybe building design this amenity space and that sort of thing.

2244
03:19:08,580 --> 03:19:14,100
And at that point it's what you all have talked about earlier. Once you comply with zoning, then you're done.

2245
03:19:14,300 --> 03:19:19,400
We're not going to supervise who they're rented to, what their incomes are, and et cetera.

2246
03:19:19,920 --> 03:19:27,800
So those are just two ways that just popped into my head when Mr. Holden made those comments because affordability is such a big issue.

2247
03:19:27,800 --> 03:19:31,080
in Chesterfield County as it is all over the country right now.

2248
03:19:32,300 --> 03:19:37,560
So, those are some things to think about and we can take a deeper dive if you all would like

2249
03:19:37,560 --> 03:19:43,940
because, yeah, we're responding to county policy, we're responding to things to get asked for.

2250
03:19:44,960 --> 03:19:50,600
In the past, but we also realize they have an impact, they can have unintended consequences.

2251
03:19:51,080 --> 03:19:55,820
That's why we've been testing these, but we also very much appreciate your comments.

2252
03:19:55,820 --> 03:19:59,100
I don't take any of this as a negative.

2253
03:19:59,880 --> 03:20:03,660
I appreciate all of Mr. Sloan, all Mr. Pratarsky's,

2254
03:20:03,660 --> 03:20:06,420
all the other commissioners comments that you've been making,

2255
03:20:06,520 --> 03:20:08,320
because that's what's going to get us to an ordinance

2256
03:20:08,320 --> 03:20:10,940
that works better at the end of the day.

2257
03:20:12,760 --> 03:20:14,400
So those are my, that's my two cents,

2258
03:20:14,420 --> 03:20:18,040
and if you all have any feedback on that,

2259
03:20:18,060 --> 03:20:20,600
I'd appreciate it otherwise I'll turn it over to Thomas

2260
03:20:20,600 --> 03:20:23,280
and he'll get into the dimensional standards.

2261
03:20:23,280 --> 03:20:31,120
Thank you. Thank you, Mark. And this is Frank. I do have, I guess, one question or comment.

2262
03:20:31,440 --> 03:20:36,340
I appreciate all of that, especially how much you were digesting everything we've been saying

2263
03:20:36,340 --> 03:20:43,960
and that felt full response to it all. When it comes to having the standards, I agree with you,

2264
03:20:44,100 --> 03:20:49,000
we definitely need to know you've arrived in Chesterfield and there is a certain standard here

2265
03:20:49,000 --> 03:20:53,200
with our first choice community and everything we're striving for.

2266
03:20:53,380 --> 03:20:55,280
You touched on it with the comprehensive plan.

2267
03:20:55,600 --> 03:21:00,140
We have areas, the you're probably familiar with at this point,

2268
03:21:00,540 --> 03:21:02,760
the village of Midlothian, Chester Village,

2269
03:21:02,940 --> 03:21:06,520
even Rockwood, and the spring line in District 60

2270
03:21:06,520 --> 03:21:08,200
that we've been talking about recently,

2271
03:21:09,260 --> 03:21:13,000
where those are small areas where we've defined,

2272
03:21:13,000 --> 03:21:16,980
okay, here's a elevated set of standards for this area,

2273
03:21:16,980 --> 03:21:22,960
that you know you've arrived. It's a sense of place that each, you know, District 60 has its own rock, what has its own

2274
03:21:22,960 --> 03:21:23,560
Chester.

2275
03:21:25,780 --> 03:21:31,900
So, because we have those, I don't want to call them special places, because that means the

2276
03:21:31,900 --> 03:21:41,220
rest of Chester is not, but we have those higher standards of place-making, let's say, where we really have

2277
03:21:41,220 --> 03:21:44,300
driven a vision of what we want in those areas.

2278
03:21:45,240 --> 03:21:48,860
I guess what I'm wondering is, for the rest of the county

2279
03:21:48,860 --> 03:21:52,380
that's not in those small areas with quarter plans

2280
03:21:52,380 --> 03:21:53,640
or village plans,

2281
03:21:55,720 --> 03:21:59,780
could we possibly have a slightly lower bar

2282
03:21:59,780 --> 03:22:02,160
for our standards while still keeping

2283
03:22:02,160 --> 03:22:03,460
just a field standards?

2284
03:22:03,980 --> 03:22:05,760
And I guess maybe it's a horrible analogy,

2285
03:22:06,460 --> 03:22:08,920
but you know, you have a bowl of lucky charms.

2286
03:22:08,920 --> 03:22:14,160
While it might seem like a good idea to make it all marshmallows when you do that, it actually

2287
03:22:14,160 --> 03:22:15,240
becomes pretty horrible.

2288
03:22:15,580 --> 03:22:23,780
You need to keep those other non-marshmallow aspects of the bowl or the county, or you're

2289
03:22:23,780 --> 03:22:31,520
just trying to make all of Chesterfield to a high-of-a-designed standard bar, I guess, and

2290
03:22:31,520 --> 03:22:34,420
diluting everything because now everything is special.

2291
03:22:35,240 --> 03:22:36,900
Does that make any sense?

2292
03:22:36,900 --> 03:22:40,520
But that makes a lot of sense.

2293
03:22:40,800 --> 03:22:42,520
No, it makes a hundred percent sense.

2294
03:22:42,740 --> 03:22:45,620
And one of the iterations we've gone through,

2295
03:22:45,640 --> 03:22:50,080
just in drafting these, is when we set up the zoning

2296
03:22:50,080 --> 03:22:53,600
to six of the way we did, we have a baseline.

2297
03:22:54,120 --> 03:22:58,040
Typically the baseline is the lowest density.

2298
03:23:00,840 --> 03:23:05,700
And you know, our thinking was on the larger lots, for example,

2299
03:23:05,700 --> 03:23:07,460
And I'll just use building design.

2300
03:23:07,920 --> 03:23:10,640
What are these building design animosity spaces, an example?

2301
03:23:11,780 --> 03:23:18,400
On those larger lots, building design is in as much a concern, because the buildings are already

2302
03:23:18,400 --> 03:23:21,700
set back further, they're usually not as prominent on the lot.

2303
03:23:22,300 --> 03:23:29,560
A many space also is in as big an issue, because their large lots, it's going to be harder

2304
03:23:29,560 --> 03:23:35,580
to create spaces that people could walk to, for example, and those requirements were

2305
03:23:35,580 --> 03:23:44,190
were tagged just to the options and the options were there and they're baked into the

2306
03:23:44,900 --> 03:23:51,680
dimensional standards and the district standards as an incentive for developers to build

2307
03:23:51,680 --> 03:23:59,600
to that higher level of design and to provide a higher level of amenity space, for example,

2308
03:23:59,600 --> 03:24:02,520
in consideration, they get more development potential.

2309
03:24:04,420 --> 03:24:08,460
And so that's what we'd baked in it and also tagging them to different districts.

2310
03:24:08,940 --> 03:24:11,400
We still have a lot of that in this draft.

2311
03:24:11,660 --> 03:24:18,140
I mean, some of the districts don't require some of the higher level standards that you mentioned.

2312
03:24:18,880 --> 03:24:22,360
But that's something I think we can go back and take another look at.

2313
03:24:22,760 --> 03:24:24,340
I mean, I hear what you're saying.

2314
03:24:24,340 --> 03:24:30,960
A mixed-use center doesn't require the same type of place making standards that a large

2315
03:24:30,960 --> 03:24:38,720
lot development in your lower density residential communities have, nor do the neighborhood

2316
03:24:38,720 --> 03:24:46,720
commercial places in those areas require the same kind of standards, and like you said,

2317
03:24:46,860 --> 03:24:51,980
we're not saying those places aren't just as important as the rest of the county, it's just

2318
03:24:51,980 --> 03:24:54,280
people choose to live there for different reasons.

2319
03:24:54,580 --> 03:25:00,560
They people in those communities want larger lots and they're comfortable driving, you know,

2320
03:25:00,900 --> 03:25:06,480
for most of their trips and they're probably more concerned that they have a parking lot,

2321
03:25:06,480 --> 03:25:11,140
you know, that has a space for them when they get there, then the folks who choose to live

2322
03:25:11,140 --> 03:25:15,480
in a mixed-use center who want to place it's walkable and they're not, they're not looking

2323
03:25:15,480 --> 03:25:18,720
for what the customer and the other place is looking for.

2324
03:25:18,720 --> 03:25:22,180
So I think we have a, excuse me, we have a lot of that already

2325
03:25:22,180 --> 03:25:26,420
built into the giraffe, but that's something we can continue to go on.

2326
03:25:26,640 --> 03:25:27,880
So I appreciate that comment.

2327
03:25:28,580 --> 03:25:29,380
Thank you, Mark.

2328
03:25:35,690 --> 03:25:38,310
I'm going to set your turn to be picked on all right.

2329
03:25:40,590 --> 03:25:42,050
I'm going to go through two sections.

2330
03:25:43,010 --> 03:25:46,550
First of which is the mentioned standards were on page 195 of the

2331
03:25:46,550 --> 03:25:49,710
clean version and 220 of the red line version.

2332
03:25:51,190 --> 03:25:55,030
Much of the information in this section is the same as we do today in the current ordinance.

2333
03:25:55,550 --> 03:26:00,350
This section includes some of the very foundational requirements that state the obvious,

2334
03:26:00,930 --> 03:26:05,670
such that minimum yards, parking, and open space for a building apply only to that building,

2335
03:26:05,870 --> 03:26:06,770
and not to any other building.

2336
03:26:07,250 --> 03:26:12,130
Commissioner Owens, this would answer your earlier question about the roundabout on an off-site project.

2337
03:26:12,710 --> 03:26:17,310
There's a clause here that would require open space or a many space to be within the project.

2338
03:26:20,060 --> 03:26:28,200
And also a requirement that clearly says that setbacks to be measured horizontally and rounded to the nearest tenth of a foot.

2339
03:26:29,320 --> 03:26:35,880
This section also has some of the basic requirements for single family lots, which includes requirements set all lots front on a public street,

2340
03:26:36,280 --> 03:26:46,020
that you only have one single family dwelling for a lot unless you go through a zoning process, and that no lots shall have access to a thoroughfare,

2341
03:26:46,020 --> 03:26:49,420
airplane road unless approved through a subdivision waiver.

2342
03:26:52,080 --> 03:26:56,340
The dimensional standard section also lists various setback encroachments, which allow things

2343
03:26:56,340 --> 03:27:00,500
like terraces, balconies, and landings, etc., to encroach into a setback.

2344
03:27:00,720 --> 03:27:04,960
Here you see on the left a house with front stairs encroaching into the front setback and

2345
03:27:04,960 --> 03:27:05,380
on the right.

2346
03:27:05,880 --> 03:27:09,080
You have a bay window on a towel on them encroaching into the front setback.

2347
03:27:09,360 --> 03:27:14,060
None of this has changed from the existing ordinance we've brought it all over intact.

2348
03:27:15,840 --> 03:27:20,980
There's also a short section on accessory structures, which spells out permitted setback

2349
03:27:20,980 --> 03:27:27,240
encroachments for ease, which is a three feet into setbacks, setbacks from acquired buffers

2350
03:27:27,240 --> 03:27:31,780
for accessory structures, which is five feet, and then setbacks for a swimming, for

2351
03:27:31,780 --> 03:27:36,480
detached swimming pools, which is a six foot side setback.

2352
03:27:38,160 --> 03:27:39,860
Changes to this section include the following.

2353
03:27:39,860 --> 03:27:45,060
We've removed the lot area reduction for developments where land was dedicated for a bikeway,

2354
03:27:45,360 --> 03:27:48,960
a buffer, or tree preservation area in the upper swith pre-water shed.

2355
03:27:49,440 --> 03:27:54,040
The rationale here is that Zomod already allows lot sizes much smaller than the existing ordinance,

2356
03:27:54,380 --> 03:27:56,960
and so further reductions, shouldn't be on that or not warranted.

2357
03:27:57,820 --> 03:28:03,800
Bikeways, profit buffers and tree preservation areas are all also components of required many space.

2358
03:28:04,200 --> 03:28:09,800
And accordingly, Zomod would not provide additional lot area reduction when required many spaces provided.

2359
03:28:11,840 --> 03:28:17,340
So the existing ordinance also includes the ability to get a setback reduction when the

2360
03:28:17,340 --> 03:28:20,980
ultimate right of way for a road is expanded to accommodate a bikeway.

2361
03:28:22,080 --> 03:28:26,100
We brought that into Zoma, but in draft one that was only limited to multi-family office,

2362
03:28:26,180 --> 03:28:27,700
commercial and industrial districts.

2363
03:28:28,160 --> 03:28:33,740
So in draft two, this setback reduction to accommodate a bikeway is now available to all

2364
03:28:33,740 --> 03:28:34,400
zoning districts.

2365
03:28:34,520 --> 03:28:39,740
And here you see a commercial site with a very small setback due to the presence of the bikeway

2366
03:28:39,740 --> 03:28:44,520
an expanded right away. So I believe I've made it intact through

2367
03:28:44,520 --> 03:28:48,540
dimensional standards with no comments. Any questions there before I move on to

2368
03:28:48,540 --> 03:28:52,780
signs? I don't know how you got. I'm just going to slow them to walk. Good work.

2369
03:28:53,500 --> 03:28:58,920
Thrilling stuff. All right, science. We're on page 225 of the clean version in

2370
03:28:59,840 --> 03:29:04,600
267 of the red line. Much of the sign chapter is directly copied from our existing

2371
03:29:04,600 --> 03:29:12,580
ordinance, we recognize that much time was spent on getting this workables. So it's important to maintain the progress that's been made.

2372
03:29:12,900 --> 03:29:19,660
As we do go through it, I'm only going to highlight changes from the existing ordinance, but if you have questions about any type of signage, don't hesitate to interrupt me.

2373
03:29:20,880 --> 03:29:29,620
Starting off in the applicability section, we've clarified that this section also applies to any signage hung inside a window, but visible to the exterior.

2374
03:29:29,620 --> 03:29:37,180
The existing ordinance only applies to signs located exterior to a building and the rent of center example here on the left-hand side

2375
03:29:37,180 --> 03:29:44,180
If those signs were pasted on to the inside of the window the current current ordinance does not apply to them and this clarification fixes that

2376
03:29:46,170 --> 03:29:53,230
In the section on prohibited signs we've added lighting around the perimeter of a window as a new type of prohibited signage

2377
03:29:53,230 --> 03:29:58,210
And we're also working on a not-to-exceed brightness value for lighted signage

2378
03:29:58,210 --> 03:29:59,430
And that's an ongoing effort

2379
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:12,160
Plan 2, include in draft 3. Can you describe the perimeter lighting as that around the windows?

2380
03:30:13,500 --> 03:30:23,180
Yeah. It's a type of sign that we've heard from some of the commissioners and board members as glaring and offensive.

2381
03:30:23,820 --> 03:30:26,980
I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but that's my word.

2382
03:30:27,860 --> 03:30:32,220
And so we've attempted to add that to the list of prohibited signs.

2383
03:30:32,780 --> 03:30:36,820
I think of rope lights around the square of the window and they just

2384
03:30:36,820 --> 03:30:38,180
Blair out. They're moving sometimes.

2385
03:30:39,380 --> 03:30:39,420
Okay.

2386
03:30:40,780 --> 03:30:42,460
But they could still have.

2387
03:30:42,720 --> 03:30:45,520
They would still be able to have like an open and closed sign.

2388
03:30:45,520 --> 03:30:45,880
Yes.

2389
03:30:46,140 --> 03:30:46,340
Okay.

2390
03:30:47,080 --> 03:30:48,760
And I'd go further into that later on.

2391
03:30:48,760 --> 03:30:49,380
Thank you.

2392
03:30:51,940 --> 03:30:57,160
All right, there are no substantial changes to the sections on sign permits and approvals

2393
03:30:57,160 --> 03:30:59,120
and the section on sign setbacks.

2394
03:30:59,380 --> 03:31:03,220
We have changed how we refer to the different types of signs and different types of communities.

2395
03:31:03,800 --> 03:31:08,580
For example, non-residential was used or is used today as a catch-all term.

2396
03:31:08,580 --> 03:31:10,300
It refers to anything without a dwelling.

2397
03:31:10,840 --> 03:31:15,040
We've replaced that with commercial industrial or office for clarification.

2398
03:31:17,060 --> 03:31:21,740
Again, another theme of the section is reducing the proliferation and impact of overly bright

2399
03:31:21,740 --> 03:31:24,520
signs in order to be enforceable in this topic.

2400
03:31:24,680 --> 03:31:27,000
We can't just say overly bright or overly clearing.

2401
03:31:27,120 --> 03:31:31,200
We've got to have a measurable standard and so we're researching the available technology

2402
03:31:31,200 --> 03:31:34,060
to be able to accurately measure sign brightness.

2403
03:31:34,680 --> 03:31:37,960
We hope to bring some additional changes for you in draft three.

2404
03:31:41,740 --> 03:31:46,820
In the building mounted sign section, staff proposes a new way to calculate the permitted sign

2405
03:31:46,820 --> 03:31:47,200
area.

2406
03:31:47,200 --> 03:31:51,820
The existing ordinance calculates sign area based on the linear feed of building

2407
03:31:51,820 --> 03:31:52,320
frontage.

2408
03:31:52,660 --> 03:31:56,100
And there are several different categories with several different multipliers to determine

2409
03:31:56,100 --> 03:31:59,200
how much signage is allowed on various types of buildings.

2410
03:31:59,900 --> 03:32:04,280
And so to simplify all of that, this draft proposes a simple calculation that allows

2411
03:32:04,280 --> 03:32:09,360
a sign area of up to 10% of wall area, but not to exceed 450 square feet.

2412
03:32:09,460 --> 03:32:12,800
This is borrowed from the Charlotte North Carolina zoning ordinance.

2413
03:32:13,540 --> 03:32:20,640
This example here shows a panera with a wall area of 1,020 square feet, which would be

2414
03:32:20,640 --> 03:32:24,980
allowed 112 square feet of signage, which is an increase over the 70 square feet of signage

2415
03:32:24,980 --> 03:32:26,380
allowed under the current ordinance.

2416
03:32:27,000 --> 03:32:30,520
We tested this new method against numerous different buildings, and found that generally

2417
03:32:30,520 --> 03:32:35,000
allowed a little bit more signage for most buildings, but that established a maximum amount

2418
03:32:35,000 --> 03:32:37,240
of signage for the largest buildings.

2419
03:32:37,240 --> 03:32:42,520
So if the commission is comfortable with this methodology, but not the larger scope of signage,

2420
03:32:42,920 --> 03:32:46,620
we can easily reduce that 10% value to 8% or something like that.

2421
03:32:46,940 --> 03:32:52,680
So a question on the wall area, that's actually just the wall, not the windows that's in the wall,

2422
03:32:52,680 --> 03:32:53,960
or does it include the whole front?

2423
03:32:53,960 --> 03:32:55,140
It would be the facade.

2424
03:32:55,180 --> 03:32:55,920
The whole facade.

2425
03:32:56,280 --> 03:32:56,740
Okay, thank you.

2426
03:32:56,820 --> 03:32:59,420
And we have a separate section on what can go in the windows.

2427
03:32:59,800 --> 03:33:00,880
I think it's the next slide.

2428
03:33:03,660 --> 03:33:16,480
So, in this example, do we clarify that 10% is your basically drawing up, you know, imaginary,

2429
03:33:17,540 --> 03:33:22,500
perimeter around that pair of bread, so they're not arguing that, like, every pixel of that

2430
03:33:22,500 --> 03:33:28,320
sign and the transparency between the letters doesn't count as signage, like do we have a, do we have

2431
03:33:28,320 --> 03:33:32,580
ways to measure the extent of signage that we've brought everything from the current

2432
03:33:32,580 --> 03:33:41,660
And do we didn't change how we measure the actual sign itself just the a lot of area by measuring the building can you help walk me through what that

2433
03:33:42,760 --> 03:33:44,980
Yeah, I don't have it in front of me right now

2434
03:33:46,140 --> 03:33:50,540
I just want to make sure because they are becoming more

2435
03:33:51,620 --> 03:33:57,040
You know, they're not they're not the bulky squares erecting as you just feel like that Panera that could just be lettering

2436
03:33:59,180 --> 03:34:00,680
And that's what I want to make sure

2437
03:34:04,700 --> 03:34:10,560
It incorporates all of that finiricide with the area of the sun.

2438
03:34:10,940 --> 03:34:11,840
That was my assumption.

2439
03:34:12,320 --> 03:34:13,180
I just wanted to make sure.

2440
03:34:13,280 --> 03:34:15,000
Yeah, no, no.

2441
03:34:16,340 --> 03:34:17,660
No, no, no.

2442
03:34:17,660 --> 03:34:18,240
No, no, no, no.

2443
03:34:18,680 --> 03:34:18,760
No, no, no, no.

2444
03:34:19,100 --> 03:34:19,280
Correct.

2445
03:34:19,280 --> 03:34:19,460
Correct.

2446
03:34:19,900 --> 03:34:23,300
We've drawn all of the rectangle around the whole side edge and that.

2447
03:34:23,300 --> 03:34:23,700
Exactly.

2448
03:34:24,120 --> 03:34:25,760
That's the measurement that we're using.

2449
03:34:26,180 --> 03:34:30,840
And then we're using the overall gross measurement, the height of the building and the width

2450
03:34:30,840 --> 03:34:32,060
of the building.

2451
03:34:32,420 --> 03:34:35,860
So it's that gross facade as the growth of the sun.

2452
03:34:35,860 --> 03:34:42,060
was rectangle of a signage, and that has to be within the 10% of what we're talking about

2453
03:34:42,060 --> 03:34:42,280
here.

2454
03:34:42,400 --> 03:34:43,040
Does that make sense?

2455
03:34:43,360 --> 03:34:43,840
It does.

2456
03:34:44,600 --> 03:34:49,480
I've never read that part of the ordinance, and I'm just maybe I'm getting two of the

2457
03:34:49,480 --> 03:34:55,660
weeds of signs, but signs do always seem to come back and bite us, but you know, if, in this

2458
03:34:55,660 --> 03:35:02,480
exam, not to pick up a penair, but you're using them as an example, if that logo above

2459
03:35:02,480 --> 03:35:08,520
Panera was up a little higher, and Panera Bread was shifted down.

2460
03:35:11,080 --> 03:35:12,660
How do we work if they try to argue?

2461
03:35:12,820 --> 03:35:16,440
Well, that's two different signs with two small rectangles around it, or we say,

2462
03:35:16,600 --> 03:35:19,140
no, that's one big sign with a big rectangle.

2463
03:35:19,340 --> 03:35:22,600
And that changes the math on this 10%.

2464
03:35:22,600 --> 03:35:26,720
I guess it could a little bit, but we would, in most cases,

2465
03:35:26,720 --> 03:35:34,220
and have the artwork from Panera and Bread all in one large rectangle.

2466
03:35:34,220 --> 03:35:39,280
And if they spread that out a bit more of the rectangle, we'll get a little larger, I don't, I don't.

2467
03:35:40,220 --> 03:35:47,240
And if it's one point that they made the art person, we might draw a small rectangle around it,

2468
03:35:47,340 --> 03:35:50,160
and then the rest of the panera bread would be a different.

2469
03:35:50,580 --> 03:35:56,760
But for the most part, we just try one rectangle around the whole kind of sign message.

2470
03:35:58,600 --> 03:36:03,560
correct which makes sense I guess I'm just worried about getting a case-by-case argument

2471
03:36:03,560 --> 03:36:09,620
if somebody's quote unquote logo is a bunch of small images all over the wall and they're

2472
03:36:09,620 --> 03:36:15,980
saying well no it's actually 10 small squares not the entire wall like do we have anything

2473
03:36:15,980 --> 03:36:25,900
to settle that argument on which is the actual sign area our interpretation of where that

2474
03:36:25,900 --> 03:36:32,700
messages, it's kind of what we use now. The only need to make more explanation of how we draw

2475
03:36:32,700 --> 03:36:39,660
that rectangle we have. I don't think we've had that as a real problem for us, but okay. Yeah, I'm not

2476
03:36:39,660 --> 03:36:57,640
proposing we do anything differently. I just wanted to understand it myself because it is on

2477
03:37:01,080 --> 03:37:05,760
So, my favorite topic, signs, exactly, it's been walked away at the wrong time.

2478
03:37:06,580 --> 03:37:08,720
It's the back time, it's strategically returned.

2479
03:37:10,400 --> 03:37:13,040
And I'm sure this will get council's attention.

2480
03:37:13,820 --> 03:37:16,140
So, we've got panerabred, nice logo up there.

2481
03:37:16,140 --> 03:37:18,800
We've got drive-through, conforms to the square footage,

2482
03:37:18,920 --> 03:37:20,420
10% of wall area.

2483
03:37:21,380 --> 03:37:23,820
But, I'm assuming there's a windows below.

2484
03:37:24,780 --> 03:37:25,860
There's six and a half windows.

2485
03:37:25,860 --> 03:37:30,580
So, what if they took six of the windows and put a P and A and N and E or A and then

2486
03:37:30,580 --> 03:37:32,640
B or E, A, D underneath of it?

2487
03:37:32,860 --> 03:37:35,520
They're inside the building shining out.

2488
03:37:36,280 --> 03:37:37,780
So, what is our position on?

2489
03:37:37,780 --> 03:37:40,220
You may have been out when I covered this.

2490
03:37:40,340 --> 03:37:41,380
I'll go back to that.

2491
03:37:42,340 --> 03:37:47,920
But there's a clause in the existing ordinance on sign applicability.

2492
03:37:48,020 --> 03:37:50,240
And what signs are subject to the sign ordinance?

2493
03:37:50,540 --> 03:37:55,100
Well, it does include today signs that are taped to the inside of window facing outwards.

2494
03:37:55,100 --> 03:38:00,020
And we have written in this document that we include those types of signs.

2495
03:38:00,400 --> 03:38:04,640
Currently, the ordinance only reads signs on the located, physically, the exterior buildings.

2496
03:38:04,880 --> 03:38:10,240
We did expand the scope of what's applicable to those that are visible to the exterior through a window.

2497
03:38:11,240 --> 03:38:22,960
And we also have a window-mounted area requirement in the ordinance today, 25%, I'll get to that in the next slide that we carried over and put into this ordinance.

2498
03:38:22,960 --> 03:38:42,920
If I'm reading your question correctly, Mr. Sloan, if they had a 25% of that, one of those windows that's a P and 25% that's an A and no spell it out, that could be a legitimate way of doing window signage.

2499
03:38:42,920 --> 03:38:51,240
that's your question. It could only use 25% of that window area or their P or their A or whatever

2500
03:38:51,240 --> 03:38:58,400
there's fell in out. But we are limiting the amount of window space that you can put

2501
03:38:59,060 --> 03:38:59,660
signage.

2502
03:39:02,610 --> 03:39:07,570
And I don't know if you are out of the room. We have addressed the perimeter lighting

2503
03:39:07,570 --> 03:39:18,370
around. Go back to the exhibit. I think I'm, let's see, this one here. Yeah, this, we are prohibiting

2504
03:39:18,370 --> 03:39:27,550
the use of the perimeter kind of lighting around the sign as that's using the entire 100%

2505
03:39:27,550 --> 03:39:32,030
of the window and you can't do that. Okay, so if we looked at the one on the right,

2506
03:39:36,650 --> 03:39:37,510
so if we looked

2507
03:39:37,510 --> 03:39:45,630
I can't tell if there's separate one, but in theory, the neon signs, because they're less than 25% of that

2508
03:39:45,630 --> 03:39:48,510
window, we would probably be okay with those.

2509
03:39:49,230 --> 03:39:50,730
I haven't gotten to that yet.

2510
03:39:51,550 --> 03:39:51,570
Okay.

2511
03:39:51,810 --> 03:39:54,510
Today we would be, because they're 25%.

2512
03:39:55,790 --> 03:39:56,210
Okay.

2513
03:39:57,350 --> 03:40:01,650
Because again, it's a question, it's truly a question, not trying to direct.

2514
03:40:01,650 --> 03:40:08,490
So we got the one on the right, neon, whatever, but then I also think about driving by my local

2515
03:40:08,490 --> 03:40:15,170
food line or curger, you know, where it's got, you know, by one doesn't eggs get one for

2516
03:40:15,170 --> 03:40:22,570
twice as much, to how we would handle those on the street.

2517
03:40:22,570 --> 03:40:29,830
We have to, we would still be trying to limit the amount of window signage to just 25% of the

2518
03:40:29,830 --> 03:40:30,130
section.

2519
03:40:32,630 --> 03:40:33,710
Let's see.

2520
03:40:34,270 --> 03:40:35,330
That's where we are this far.

2521
03:40:37,410 --> 03:40:42,410
So, another change we propose in the building on its sign section is establishing a maximum

2522
03:40:42,410 --> 03:40:45,790
percent of the window area that may be a lighted sign.

2523
03:40:45,790 --> 03:40:52,810
So currently, as we've discussed, we have a 25 percent limitation on just ordinary window

2524
03:40:52,810 --> 03:40:57,430
signage lighted, not lighted. But in response to hearing some of the concerns over the past year

2525
03:40:57,430 --> 03:41:03,450
two on lighted signage, and the brightness that comes from that, one effective way to limit that

2526
03:41:03,450 --> 03:41:09,510
is to limit a smaller subsection of the window to lighted signage, say it's 5 percent, 10 percent.

2527
03:41:09,810 --> 03:41:13,770
We don't have an exact value yet in this document, but we plan to do some testing to see

2528
03:41:13,770 --> 03:41:19,490
what's appropriate, what's within reason, and to add that in draft three.

2529
03:41:23,650 --> 03:41:28,070
Mr. Chair, for me, I'm glad you're all going to look into that.

2530
03:41:32,330 --> 03:41:39,110
Again, I speak for anybody else, but just driving by the view, right, you've got some lighting that's

2531
03:41:39,110 --> 03:41:44,910
literally behind the letters, and so there's an elimination, right, but then you can have something that literally

2532
03:41:44,910 --> 03:41:51,050
It looks like a lighted sign, billboard, where it's all lit up and everything else.

2533
03:41:52,370 --> 03:41:59,450
Given the same square footage, I'm curious to see how we would handle maybe the different

2534
03:41:59,450 --> 03:42:01,690
types in those situations.

2535
03:42:02,810 --> 03:42:05,910
Because it's strictly a square footage kind of thing,

2536
03:42:08,550 --> 03:42:09,350
I look forward to seeing how you

2537
03:42:09,350 --> 03:42:10,070
guys work through that.

2538
03:42:10,870 --> 03:42:15,670
The photos here are the view and the living scene are a little misleading to the window

2539
03:42:15,670 --> 03:42:19,190
signage, I should have put another photo in here of Winder

2540
03:42:19,190 --> 03:42:22,610
signage, but photo is here reference, another change to

2541
03:42:22,610 --> 03:42:25,770
building management, which is increasing the building

2542
03:42:25,770 --> 03:42:28,590
management from multi-family buildings, which is quite

2543
03:42:28,590 --> 03:42:33,450
small today. And Zoma recognizes some of the good examples

2544
03:42:33,450 --> 03:42:37,030
out there that have got exceptions, and Zoma proposes up to

2545
03:42:37,030 --> 03:42:39,970
300 square feet of building management for a multi-family building.

2546
03:42:40,450 --> 03:42:42,770
But I do hear your comments on the Winder signage, and we'll

2547
03:42:42,770 --> 03:42:44,630
make sure we go on top of that for draft free.

2548
03:42:46,790 --> 03:42:53,230
So, where we're kind of headed in draft 3 is we'll have to find this better as, you know,

2549
03:42:53,450 --> 03:43:01,350
maybe the traditional window sign is paper or vinyl or whatever they use could be 25%.

2550
03:43:01,350 --> 03:43:09,150
But if they wanted to do, you know, a electric, illuminated sign within that window, it would

2551
03:43:09,150 --> 03:43:16,770
maybe 10% or 15% well we put a lesser percentage that you could use if you were just going

2552
03:43:16,770 --> 03:43:25,210
to eliminate it because we found that creates too much brightness. There's that whole issue

2553
03:43:25,210 --> 03:43:32,550
and we were trying to control that we're having a difficulty from a Caucasian standpoint of trying

2554
03:43:32,550 --> 03:43:36,390
to find a good way of measuring and controlling glare

2555
03:43:36,390 --> 03:43:42,090
or brightness without the biologist's sophisticated equipment.

2556
03:43:42,090 --> 03:43:46,450
The idea of, you can only have so much of your window

2557
03:43:46,450 --> 03:43:48,390
exposed with a lighted sign.

2558
03:43:48,410 --> 03:43:52,150
It seemed to simpler way of handling the problem

2559
03:43:52,150 --> 03:43:57,770
and being able to enforce it easier in the future.

2560
03:43:59,010 --> 03:44:00,570
Makes sense to you all.

2561
03:44:01,790 --> 03:44:06,310
I'm with Commissioner Sloan. This is top one, so I'm sure we keep working out of it.

2562
03:44:06,350 --> 03:44:13,510
You just made me think, this could be an example of where variance does matter in the sense

2563
03:44:13,510 --> 03:44:22,570
that could we treat white light differently than we treat 10 neon different colors on the same

2564
03:44:22,570 --> 03:44:30,570
So, if it's too varied, maybe that triggers, you know, it's too much, you've got to

2565
03:44:30,570 --> 03:44:31,670
tone that down.

2566
03:44:31,790 --> 03:44:35,470
So here being example where we just limit the amount of variation on color.

2567
03:44:35,930 --> 03:44:41,490
When it's a lit up sign, it's a neat idea, and we'll have to be very specific to a measurable

2568
03:44:41,490 --> 03:44:47,010
standard, but we'll do the research and see what exists, what technology exists to measure

2569
03:44:47,010 --> 03:44:47,770
that.

2570
03:44:49,080 --> 03:44:59,960
Let's share, I think when we had so much fun with the sign ordinance before, we came to a pretty good place where, and Rob, correct me if I'm wrong, we'll count.

2571
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:07,560
The bill was more comfortable with us kind of putting our hand on the scale as far as brightness and

2572
03:45:07,560 --> 03:45:13,080
lumens as opposed to content and some of the other factors.

2573
03:45:14,620 --> 03:45:16,660
Any with a broad berrier force?

2574
03:45:17,500 --> 03:45:23,960
But accurately, when you're talking about sign regulation, you can pretty much do whatever

2575
03:45:23,960 --> 03:45:26,360
you want as long as it's reasonable.

2576
03:45:26,360 --> 03:45:34,000
accept for regulating content. The only content, the only content

2577
03:45:34,000 --> 03:45:38,320
distinctions that could be made in the sign of ordinance is a difference between

2578
03:45:38,320 --> 03:45:39,600
commercial and non-commercial.

2579
03:45:41,780 --> 03:45:45,400
Correct, but limiting the number of colors in your

2580
03:45:45,400 --> 03:45:51,340
palette. That's not content though, right? Correct. You know, as long as you, you're

2581
03:45:51,340 --> 03:45:55,660
going to need to, I mean, you can't be arbitrary and capricious, obviously. So you

2582
03:45:55,660 --> 03:46:04,460
We need to be able to advance a reasonable explanation why this particular regulation is necessary

2583
03:46:04,460 --> 03:46:05,380
or beneficial.

2584
03:46:06,300 --> 03:46:09,300
But as long as you do that, you should be fine.

2585
03:46:10,120 --> 03:46:15,970
Like, 10 colors are distracting to the right light on the view.

2586
03:46:20,630 --> 03:46:22,270
I can throw that out there for consideration.

2587
03:46:25,750 --> 03:46:28,890
While we have your attention around, I know you love getting above not conversations.

2588
03:46:29,410 --> 03:46:37,050
Should we be considering a four o'clock or eight since we did advertise that we would be hearing a case at four o'clock?

2589
03:46:37,230 --> 03:46:39,090
Yes sir

2590
03:46:39,090 --> 03:46:45,830
Thomas in the next minute or so if you can get to a clean stop then we'll bring you back up got four slides. I'll just

2591
03:46:45,830 --> 03:46:47,650
Wait, this way. Okay

2592
03:46:50,330 --> 03:46:53,890
Exactly don't underestimate how long we can make you stay up there for four slides

2593
03:48:32,750 --> 03:48:42,890
A call to order our 4 p.m. public hearing, we have a, do we have any requests to postpone

2594
03:48:42,890 --> 03:48:49,230
action emergency additions, changes in the order of presentation for our 4 p.m. public hearing.

2595
03:48:51,610 --> 03:48:56,750
Seeing none, director Gillies, will you review the meeting procedures for us?

2596
03:48:56,970 --> 03:48:57,290
Yes, sir.

2597
03:48:57,290 --> 03:49:03,350
Planning Commission makes final decision on approvals for certain site plans, schematic plans,

2598
03:49:03,630 --> 03:49:09,350
tentative subdivision plants, developments standard modifications and appeals of the director's decision.

2599
03:49:09,970 --> 03:49:14,730
If the Commission approves or denies the request, there is no further public hearing.

2600
03:49:15,710 --> 03:49:24,190
Following to this afternoon's meeting, you may obtain information on any case for which there is final action by calling the planning department at 748-1050.

2601
03:49:24,210 --> 03:49:25,330
We have one case today.

2602
03:49:26,770 --> 03:49:28,410
Thank you, Director Gilles.

2603
03:49:29,330 --> 03:49:40,170
So our one case today is 080S 0145 E9 LLC in the Bermuda District, and we will have this

2604
03:49:40,170 --> 03:49:42,130
case presented to us by Mr. Curtley.

2605
03:49:49,560 --> 03:49:50,420
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.

2606
03:49:50,620 --> 03:49:51,460
Who was at the board?

2607
03:49:52,580 --> 03:49:59,620
Today, we're here to discuss K-0 T-S or 145, a major change to E-non-station for the

2608
03:49:59,620 --> 03:50:00,440
very flat.

2609
03:50:00,680 --> 03:50:05,000
We're looking at an addition of a stormwater management drive-on and to address drainage

2610
03:50:05,000 --> 03:50:07,480
related impacts to the adjacent properties there.

2611
03:50:07,980 --> 03:50:12,720
This case is back before the CPC because this was originally approved back in 2008 by the

2612
03:50:12,720 --> 03:50:13,180
CPC.

2613
03:50:20,090 --> 03:50:27,990
So again, this map is showing the applicant proposing drive-VMP in the northwest quadrant of

2614
03:50:27,990 --> 03:50:28,650
the site.

2615
03:50:28,650 --> 03:50:37,210
adjacent to the Hupo line to the north for Pizzlats 57-59 to the south and adjacent property long.

2616
03:50:37,390 --> 03:50:43,390
adjacent properties along this appendage funding south were the long 2500-burges were in

2617
03:50:43,390 --> 03:50:50,050
and 2600-burges were in. Staff is recommending approval based on our review and the additional

2618
03:50:50,050 --> 03:50:52,830
conditions that were added to the staff report.

2619
03:50:58,170 --> 03:51:00,890
The subject property is 26 acres and located at

2620
03:51:00,890 --> 03:51:07,110
25.25.01, per meter 100 grade, located within the Northeast Quadrant of the intersection of E9

2621
03:51:07,110 --> 03:51:09,270
church rate and east 100 grade.

2622
03:51:13,900 --> 03:51:17,760
Here you can see an aerial of E9 station currently, sections

2623
03:51:17,760 --> 03:51:24,420
1 and section 2 are under construction and section 3 is the area to the north where you can still see

2624
03:51:24,420 --> 03:51:29,220
the wooded area just under the OATS label.

2625
03:51:33,380 --> 03:51:36,800
So this is the purpose preliminary plot. I have a zoom

2626
03:51:36,800 --> 03:51:42,920
but you can see the BMP added to the corner adjacent to lots of 50-57 and 59.

2627
03:51:44,640 --> 03:51:49,340
And here is a zoom in showing you the dry pond and the outfall is associated with this

2628
03:51:49,340 --> 03:51:58,520
that heads down this appendage of that is right next to the real way into the POR and fits properly.

2629
03:52:04,100 --> 03:52:08,360
The staff recommends approval of the irrigation of a stormwater, management of stormwater,

2630
03:52:08,360 --> 03:52:10,800
of drive-points, subject to the conditions and those

2631
03:52:10,800 --> 03:52:11,980
contained in the staff report.

2632
03:52:12,760 --> 03:52:15,420
Recommended conditions address drainage and downstream flooding,

2633
03:52:16,360 --> 03:52:18,020
and will be in force of the time of construction

2634
03:52:18,020 --> 03:52:19,660
plan review and during construction.

2635
03:52:20,440 --> 03:52:23,000
As of the previous approval, conditions address drainage

2636
03:52:23,000 --> 03:52:24,880
flowing in the direction of the adjacent pitch

2637
03:52:24,880 --> 03:52:26,000
property to the east.

2638
03:52:26,760 --> 03:52:29,220
Additional conditions are recommended by environmental engineering

2639
03:52:29,220 --> 03:52:30,560
to address flooding issues.

2640
03:52:51,360 --> 03:52:52,840
Thank you.

2641
03:52:53,200 --> 03:52:56,780
Mr. Curtley, do any commissioners have any questions?

2642
03:52:56,780 --> 03:52:58,720
in this case.

2643
03:53:00,960 --> 03:53:05,820
Seeing none, I will open the public hearing and begin by asking Commissioner Sloan,

2644
03:53:05,980 --> 03:53:09,660
were there any public comments online or through the portal?

2645
03:53:11,850 --> 03:53:13,450
No, Mr. Chair, there were not.

2646
03:53:13,650 --> 03:53:14,450
Thank you, Commissioner Sloan.

2647
03:53:15,210 --> 03:53:20,930
Is there anyone present who would like to speak in either support or opposition to this request?

2648
03:53:21,750 --> 03:53:23,550
Need to ask for the applicant first?

2649
03:53:27,530 --> 03:53:31,310
Would the applicant present and would they like to speak?

2650
03:53:35,790 --> 03:53:37,450
I'm getting a no for that, okay?

2651
03:53:38,270 --> 03:53:39,610
Thank you.

2652
03:53:40,350 --> 03:53:43,330
So is there anyone present to would like to speak

2653
03:53:43,330 --> 03:53:46,450
and opposition or support of this request?

2654
03:53:49,280 --> 03:53:52,100
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing

2655
03:53:52,100 --> 03:53:54,420
and being of this case is in the Bramuda district.

2656
03:53:54,420 --> 03:53:56,240
I will hand it off to Commissioner Salon.

2657
03:53:56,900 --> 03:53:57,700
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2658
03:53:59,360 --> 03:54:08,560
I do have one request of staff, and speaking with members of staff, at least it's been made

2659
03:54:08,560 --> 03:54:14,920
very clear to me that if through some negotiations with the applicant, we can get an agreement

2660
03:54:16,820 --> 03:54:26,000
to make the base of the drainage ditch concrete, that is something that we would really like

2661
03:54:26,000 --> 03:54:28,560
to see the developer work with us on.

2662
03:54:28,880 --> 03:54:30,980
So I've during the site plan process,

2663
03:54:31,440 --> 03:54:37,080
we could ask really nicely and whatever we can do

2664
03:54:37,080 --> 03:54:38,500
to get them to work with us on that,

2665
03:54:38,500 --> 03:54:39,520
I think it would help out.

2666
03:54:39,540 --> 03:54:40,240
Yes, sir.

2667
03:54:40,640 --> 03:54:41,280
We'll do that.

2668
03:54:42,080 --> 03:54:43,000
Thank you very much.

2669
03:54:43,660 --> 03:54:46,880
And with that one request, I would ask planning commission

2670
03:54:46,880 --> 03:54:54,860
to join me in recommending approval of case 080s 0145

2671
03:54:54,860 --> 03:54:58,860
in on LLC and the Bermuda District, subject to the conditions in the case.

2672
03:54:59,480 --> 03:55:02,980
I'm just a player of the patient, you're actually included in that document.

2673
03:55:07,080 --> 03:55:11,780
I'm willing to modify my motion to simply approve the case instead of recommending a part of it.

2674
03:55:13,450 --> 03:55:13,790
Second.

2675
03:55:15,350 --> 03:55:23,090
Okay, we have a motion to approve by Commissioner Sloan, any second by Commissioner Harden, any discussion?

2676
03:55:25,550 --> 03:55:27,510
Madam Clerk, please take a look.

2677
03:55:28,270 --> 03:55:29,670
Mr. Fracharsky.

2678
03:55:29,850 --> 03:55:29,970
Hi.

2679
03:55:30,590 --> 03:55:31,190
Mr. Sloan.

2680
03:55:31,370 --> 03:55:31,570
Hi.

2681
03:55:31,830 --> 03:55:32,590
Mr. Harden.

2682
03:55:32,890 --> 03:55:33,790
Dr. Hilton.

2683
03:55:34,830 --> 03:55:35,270
Mr. Owen.

2684
03:55:36,030 --> 03:55:36,250
Hi.

2685
03:55:36,810 --> 03:55:38,390
Mr. Chair of the vote is unanimous.

2686
03:55:38,430 --> 03:55:39,190
The motion passes.

2687
03:55:39,790 --> 03:55:40,650
Thank you.

2688
03:55:41,590 --> 03:55:46,530
And that concludes our cases for the 4 p.m. public hearing.

2689
03:55:47,290 --> 03:55:51,670
So at this time, we will go back to our work session.

2690
03:55:53,490 --> 03:55:57,010
And I guess towards your Thomas for four more slides before we let him go.

2691
03:55:58,750 --> 03:56:04,930
All right, so moving on from building nine signs into freestanding signs.

2692
03:56:05,610 --> 03:56:10,310
For freestanding signs, we currently have a reasonably complex table that dictates signs

2693
03:56:10,310 --> 03:56:14,650
size and height based on use, zoning district, and project size.

2694
03:56:14,990 --> 03:56:19,510
We did our best to preserve this structure and translate it into the new ZOMOD districts while

2695
03:56:19,510 --> 03:56:21,010
making minimal changes.

2696
03:56:21,010 --> 03:56:28,170
We did allow more signage for property in an agricultural district to a farm use and we did decrease the

2697
03:56:28,170 --> 03:56:30,670
signage for village entrance signs a bit.

2698
03:56:31,170 --> 03:56:35,890
We've also allowed two square feet of signage to be mounted on fuel dispensers to accommodate

2699
03:56:35,890 --> 03:56:39,010
a growing trend seen with that type of use.

2700
03:56:39,770 --> 03:56:44,970
Another improvement for the user is that there were several significant requirements for signs that

2701
03:56:44,970 --> 03:56:46,550
were buried in the table footnotes.

2702
03:56:46,550 --> 03:56:51,410
I think there are nine foot notes in that table with some important items in there and we've

2703
03:56:51,410 --> 03:56:55,210
moved those to a more prominent position within the section so they stand out more to

2704
03:56:55,210 --> 03:56:55,850
the reader.

2705
03:56:57,840 --> 03:56:58,980
This is chair.

2706
03:57:00,180 --> 03:57:07,400
As a relates to increased area for formulas, for foreign use, is that specific to agricultural

2707
03:57:07,400 --> 03:57:08,720
Please zone properties.

2708
03:57:09,620 --> 03:57:11,900
Believe it's agricultural zone properties with.

2709
03:57:13,060 --> 03:57:16,480
As opposed to residentially zone properties,

2710
03:57:18,540 --> 03:57:20,400
that have some sort of an agricultural

2711
03:57:20,400 --> 03:57:21,080
bias.

2712
03:57:21,380 --> 03:57:22,520
I understand where you're coming from.

2713
03:57:22,700 --> 03:57:25,300
It says agricultural district with a farm use.

2714
03:57:25,320 --> 03:57:25,760
Thank you.

2715
03:57:33,100 --> 03:57:34,360
All right, temporary signs.

2716
03:57:35,040 --> 03:57:38,940
What we previously called limited duration signs is now temporary signs.

2717
03:57:39,080 --> 03:57:41,460
Temporary signs are defined by their construction,

2718
03:57:41,460 --> 03:57:51,610
which is if they are not permanently installed in the ground or to a structure and can be readily removed or or located elsewhere.

2719
03:57:51,990 --> 03:57:56,290
Think about a real estate sign with a sheet of plywood held up by two four by four posts.

2720
03:57:57,090 --> 03:58:01,550
The existing ordinance has 14 different categories of such signs based on land use and location.

2721
03:58:01,990 --> 03:58:09,670
Each with varying sizes and time limits and Ted Barkley really want to thank him for his advice in some of the modifications we made here.

2722
03:58:09,670 --> 03:58:17,750
help to kind of contextualize how this ordinance had gotten to be the way it was and helped guide us in making the changes here.

2723
03:58:17,830 --> 03:58:24,410
Biggest change here was consolidating the varying time limits and sizes into a more standardized format.

2724
03:58:24,750 --> 03:58:29,850
Most temporary science here are proposed to be 32 square feet in area, which is the size of a sheet of plywood.

2725
03:58:30,390 --> 03:58:37,070
7 feet in height and subject to a 120 day limitation or display limitation within one calendar year.

2726
03:58:37,870 --> 03:58:42,330
We did hear from the advisory committee that they'd like to have another category of temporary

2727
03:58:42,330 --> 03:58:47,830
signage added, one that would allow them to advertise lots for sale on an off-site location

2728
03:58:47,830 --> 03:58:48,890
such as a farm.

2729
03:58:49,630 --> 03:58:55,630
And so we'll look at that as a draft three modification if the commissions come to what

2730
03:58:55,630 --> 03:58:56,510
that type of signage.

2731
03:59:03,840 --> 03:59:10,240
So right now you're talking about temporary signs, temporary signs are defined as being 32 square

2732
03:59:11,860 --> 03:59:23,960
do smaller signs, say, two feet by three feet or, you know, the typical, political sign or open house sign or whatever it is, is that another category there?

2733
03:59:24,000 --> 03:59:30,620
No, that broadly, there are 32 square feet and seven feet in height, but there are some smaller exceptions.

2734
03:59:31,180 --> 03:59:35,320
Like for individual residential lots, still the two by three, I think it's four signs.

2735
03:59:35,320 --> 03:59:38,900
We did preserve those distinctions where useful.

2736
03:59:45,410 --> 03:59:47,110
And then outdoor advertising signs.

2737
03:59:47,390 --> 03:59:49,270
No changes were made to this section at all.

2738
03:59:49,470 --> 03:59:52,030
We still have the July 24th,

2739
03:59:52,390 --> 03:59:55,130
26 deadline for sign monetization.

2740
03:59:55,770 --> 03:59:58,270
I understand we're about 30 to 40%

2741
03:59:58,270 --> 03:59:59,970
through that sign monetization product.

2742
04:00:03,760 --> 04:00:06,220
Yes. And that's the date that reflects that.

2743
04:00:08,590 --> 04:00:11,750
We feel like we're on schedule to meet that this time without any more extensions.

2744
04:00:12,030 --> 04:00:16,710
We're at 30 to 40 percent. Can't answer anything beyond that.

2745
04:00:17,090 --> 04:00:18,170
All right.

2746
04:00:21,500 --> 04:00:25,020
Well, that concludes signs. Unless you have any further questions or things you didn't see

2747
04:00:25,020 --> 04:00:26,620
or things you have questions about.

2748
04:00:37,440 --> 04:00:40,380
Not so quick. You were so close.

2749
04:00:46,570 --> 04:00:48,250
So the ordinance that we pass is very

2750
04:00:48,250 --> 04:00:56,710
It's very defined to scope application the territory where it's applicable to the home

2751
04:00:56,710 --> 04:00:58,010
on your arms.

2752
04:00:58,190 --> 04:01:06,990
The only issue at hand is the underlying phasing that we asked a couple of the outdoor

2753
04:01:06,990 --> 04:01:11,230
advertisers as far as the conversion and stuff like that, right?

2754
04:01:11,550 --> 04:01:12,990
That's not the way I understand it, yes.

2755
04:01:16,050 --> 04:01:17,250
So if

2756
04:01:19,330 --> 04:01:25,670
we just wanted to say we're okay leaving in place what we've got in place, not expanding

2757
04:01:25,670 --> 04:01:32,150
and not changing it, we could simply adopt that as part of the work, part of the ordinance

2758
04:01:32,870 --> 04:01:35,830
and do away with an expiration date, correct.

2759
04:01:40,490 --> 04:01:47,210
So you're stating that we would basically transfer everything that's in 19.1 as we have

2760
04:01:47,210 --> 04:01:54,150
reference to the overlord signs and advertising signs.

2761
04:01:55,070 --> 04:02:03,430
We've made them into 19.2 ZOMOD, but we would eliminate the deadline requirement for so many

2762
04:02:03,430 --> 04:02:09,250
signs within the sign modernization area that we could leave it, is that what you're suggesting?

2763
04:02:09,250 --> 04:02:15,290
Because that's what the sunset was in there was to try to keep moving forward with the removal

2764
04:02:15,290 --> 04:02:23,670
of so many of the more out of date or deteriorating signs from the sign modernization area.

2765
04:02:24,790 --> 04:02:31,150
Right, but if we, and truly a question, not, and I'm not seeing it, we've got to spend

2766
04:02:31,150 --> 04:02:31,850
more time on it.

2767
04:02:31,850 --> 04:02:39,150
But if we simply said, or if the board ultimately said that, look, the idea of modernizing

2768
04:02:39,150 --> 04:02:46,570
the signs, whether it's done by 2026 or 2023, the county's not really at risk because

2769
04:02:46,570 --> 04:02:54,470
there's no door open that allows for additional territories or the scope to increase it's

2770
04:02:55,370 --> 04:03:03,310
if we got to the place and we simply said look the plan was is this fundamentally a good plan we

2771
04:03:03,310 --> 04:03:13,050
want that those main corridors modernize and we adopted into the new zoning ordinance we would

2772
04:03:13,050 --> 04:03:21,900
simply just simply lifting a July 24th, 2026 expiration date, theoretically they could kind of do it

2773
04:03:21,900 --> 04:03:26,400
whenever they wanted to. But, correct. But there's no risk that there's no snow.

2774
04:03:26,400 --> 04:03:31,220
Yeah, snowy. And it was kind of built in suspenders before we were trying to make sure we were kind

2775
04:03:31,220 --> 04:03:39,040
of holding their feet to the fire to get a significant number of those and equated and deteriorated signs.

2776
04:03:39,880 --> 04:03:46,900
Go on, remove and that was the technique that we, maybe if we had a conversation on

2777
04:03:46,900 --> 04:03:52,420
mass them to maybe move the needle a little bit faster, because I mean personally when

2778
04:03:52,420 --> 04:03:57,960
I look at personally for me and I don't want to speak for any other commissioner where

2779
04:03:57,960 --> 04:04:05,700
they have modernized, it's night and day and I think that whole modernization effort is really

2780
04:04:05,700 --> 04:04:14,230
I mean like the one here. I'd love to see that everywhere and I would hate for us to sunset it

2781
04:04:15,440 --> 04:04:21,210
and not have completed what we originally wanted to complete and then we're left with what we've got

2782
04:04:21,500 --> 04:04:28,240
and there's no incentive to modernize anymore. I was just at some point if we wanted to,

2783
04:04:28,380 --> 04:04:33,200
if there was a support for it or we crossed that bridge and theory we could just simply pick it up

2784
04:04:33,200 --> 04:04:36,800
market in there, and the expiration would go away.

2785
04:04:38,840 --> 04:04:38,880
Yeah.

2786
04:04:39,220 --> 04:04:42,520
I think the reason we put in was that if they didn't meet that,

2787
04:04:42,520 --> 04:04:45,460
quote, our requirement that we had for replacement of

2788
04:04:45,460 --> 04:04:49,520
a number of signs, they could no longer do more sign,

2789
04:04:49,600 --> 04:04:51,040
you know, do more replacement.

2790
04:04:52,400 --> 04:05:03,180
So if you wanted to lift that part of the

2791
04:05:10,760 --> 04:05:17,700
All right, just a couple more slides left, so we are on track because we finished today's

2792
04:05:17,700 --> 04:05:23,140
topics. Thank you for that. Thank you for your attention. I know it was a very long day. So in June,

2793
04:05:23,180 --> 04:05:27,660
we will continue on with our development standards. You can see the topics we will cover in

2794
04:05:27,660 --> 04:05:34,220
in Article 4. We broke it amount in June and July. And then in August, we'll transition to

2795
04:05:34,220 --> 04:05:42,000
five, 10 and 11, in September, Article 6, 7 and 8, and that should complete your review of

2796
04:05:42,000 --> 04:05:47,160
ZOMI Draft II. And at that point, we intend to come back and chat a little bit about that

2797
04:05:47,160 --> 04:05:53,420
parking lot list of items, and so we'll be back around hopefully September, October,

2798
04:05:53,760 --> 04:05:57,780
because you have slated on your agenda through October to review ZOMI.

2799
04:06:00,140 --> 04:06:01,440
We did want to just remind

2800
04:06:01,440 --> 04:06:08,020
that we're continuing to do outreach on ZOMOD, so social media pushes our website is updated every month

2801
04:06:08,020 --> 04:06:13,960
after you're meeting. We post a link to the presentation so we can come back and watch it and we're

2802
04:06:13,960 --> 04:06:20,120
trying to get the word out as much as we can about ZOMOD so that people can learn during this process.

2803
04:06:20,600 --> 04:06:26,140
We do have the comment portal open for ZOMOD online. If you want to review the draft ordinance

2804
04:06:26,140 --> 04:06:30,460
or encode platform, you can use the QR code on the screen.

2805
04:06:30,560 --> 04:06:31,580
It'll take you right there.

2806
04:06:31,580 --> 04:06:34,980
And as you review the draft, just put in your context information

2807
04:06:34,980 --> 04:06:36,260
in the comment that you have.

2808
04:06:36,280 --> 04:06:37,540
And it goes straight to us.

2809
04:06:37,660 --> 04:06:40,520
If you have any questions, we're here for you

2810
04:06:40,520 --> 04:06:42,320
and for anyone watching online.

2811
04:06:43,940 --> 04:06:44,680
Thank you.

2812
04:06:55,140 --> 04:06:56,280
Just try to delay a little bit.

2813
04:06:57,840 --> 04:07:00,380
How long is the comment portal going to be open?

2814
04:07:00,380 --> 04:07:03,480
Is that very limited or is it going to be open for a while?

2815
04:07:03,840 --> 04:07:06,280
So right now, we don't have an end date.

2816
04:07:06,280 --> 04:07:08,960
We just knew that you all would be reviewing through October.

2817
04:07:09,480 --> 04:07:12,880
So in our minds, when you're finishing up your review,

2818
04:07:13,240 --> 04:07:17,180
we'll probably begin to do the 30-day notice that it'll be closing.

2819
04:07:18,040 --> 04:07:21,860
But we can discuss that if you'd like to set a date for that closure as well.

2820
04:07:22,640 --> 04:07:29,040
And closing it at one point will be helpful for us to be able to kind of at least

2821
04:07:29,040 --> 04:07:34,480
mark a time where we're taking all the comments from draft two and start to make draft three.

2822
04:07:34,480 --> 04:07:36,380
So we've got to cut it off at some point.

2823
04:07:36,540 --> 04:07:39,160
It's not that we all start at another portal process

2824
04:07:39,160 --> 04:07:42,000
for draft three at a later date, but the idea

2825
04:07:42,000 --> 04:07:43,940
that we kind of, from a staff perspective,

2826
04:07:44,180 --> 04:07:47,700
kind of need to stop taking comments at one point,

2827
04:07:47,840 --> 04:07:50,160
kind of, and then start figuring out,

2828
04:07:50,280 --> 04:07:54,460
make sure we have, trying to integrate as many

2829
04:07:54,460 --> 04:07:57,080
of those comments as possible into draft three.

2830
04:07:59,760 --> 04:08:00,580
Thank you.

2831
04:08:03,490 --> 04:08:06,310
We'll now move on to our next item for discussion.

2832
04:08:06,890 --> 04:08:08,890
Item B, the initiation of Code Amendment

2833
04:08:08,890 --> 04:08:14,270
relative to Chesapeake Bay Preservation Active Requirements for Climate Adaptation and the Chore

2834
04:08:14,270 --> 04:08:22,910
Tree Preservation 24 PJA 0104, and I guess Mr. Smedley will be presenting this one.

2835
04:08:23,670 --> 04:08:24,810
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

2836
04:08:25,030 --> 04:08:25,630
Members of the Commission.

2837
04:08:26,790 --> 04:08:33,630
As Mr. Petrosky mentioned, this is to initiate changes to the Chesapeake Bay portion

2838
04:08:33,630 --> 04:08:42,850
of our zoning ordinance, the legislature pass on regulatory guidelines a couple of years ago,

2839
04:08:44,050 --> 04:08:51,970
and DEQ had some time to put together those changes related to climate resiliency, mainly

2840
04:08:51,970 --> 04:09:03,610
entitle areas, but these are being implemented over all the resource protection areas of the

2841
04:09:03,610 --> 04:09:11,630
code. The state code requires that this be done by September of this year. The DEQ has said

2842
04:09:11,630 --> 04:09:15,850
that they're not going to do any enforcement on it for another year, but we'd still like to

2843
04:09:15,850 --> 04:09:20,150
try to get it done by that September deadline just to be in compliance with the state code.

2844
04:09:21,070 --> 04:09:28,950
So we would like to try to come to you in July with those code amendments as we get those finalized

2845
04:09:28,950 --> 04:09:36,040
working with DEQ, so I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have for what I know at this point in time.

2846
04:09:38,070 --> 04:09:42,470
So let's just make specifically asking us to hold a public hearing in July.

2847
04:09:43,550 --> 04:09:47,890
That's what we are shooting for, but right now it's just to initiate the process.

2848
04:09:49,590 --> 04:09:49,870
So, okay.

2849
04:09:53,020 --> 04:09:53,460
Makes sense?

2850
04:09:59,000 --> 04:10:02,920
Okay, with that, can I have a motion to initiate

2851
04:10:02,920 --> 04:10:05,800
the Code Amendment Relative to Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act

2852
04:10:05,800 --> 04:10:08,080
requirements for climate adaptation and maturatory

2853
04:10:08,080 --> 04:10:11,320
presivations to 4PG-0104?

2854
04:10:11,560 --> 04:10:12,180
So, may I have a question?

2855
04:10:13,460 --> 04:10:15,980
Second, a motion by Commissioner Owens,

2856
04:10:16,620 --> 04:10:18,900
or by Commissioner Sloan, and a second by Commissioner Owens.

2857
04:10:19,280 --> 04:10:20,920
Madam, will you please take the roll call?

2858
04:10:21,220 --> 04:10:22,020
Mr. Fitzgeraldski?

2859
04:10:22,500 --> 04:10:22,720
Aye.

2860
04:10:23,200 --> 04:10:23,860
Mr. Sloan?

2861
04:10:24,700 --> 04:10:25,640
Mr. Harden? Aye.

2862
04:10:25,900 --> 04:10:27,020
Dr. Hilton? Aye.

2863
04:10:27,340 --> 04:10:28,020
Mr. Owens?

2864
04:10:28,180 --> 04:10:28,480
Aye.

2865
04:10:28,480 --> 04:10:31,360
Mr. Chair, the vote is unanimous for approval.

2866
04:10:32,360 --> 04:10:37,760
Thank you, Madam Clerk. Our next item is to discuss a motion to set a public hearing for

2867
04:10:37,760 --> 04:10:44,800
June 18th, 2024 to consider an ordinance amendment to chapter 19.1 of the county code in order

2868
04:10:44,800 --> 04:10:50,780
to address comments provided by FEMA on the recently adopted floodplain ordinance amendment.

2869
04:10:51,740 --> 04:10:53,380
It's just medley, you have the floor again.

2870
04:10:53,380 --> 04:11:01,080
So you might recall adopting those changes back in April to the floodplain ordinance that were requested by DCR.

2871
04:11:01,600 --> 04:11:06,120
The board subsequently adopted those ordinance changes. It was sent to FEMA.

2872
04:11:06,460 --> 04:11:15,100
FEMA came back and requested that we change the word exception to variance in our ordinance.

2873
04:11:15,120 --> 04:11:21,520
So that's what this public hearing and changes will be in the June meeting.

2874
04:11:21,520 --> 04:11:28,220
So, pretty minor, but the word exception is in there a few times that is to be modified.

2875
04:11:30,300 --> 04:11:32,180
I'm sure there's any questions for Mr. Smith.

2876
04:11:34,380 --> 04:11:37,340
Seeing none, can I have a motion to set a public hearing?

2877
04:11:37,560 --> 04:11:41,380
For June 18th, 2024 to consider an ordinance amendment to chapter 19.

2878
04:11:41,660 --> 04:11:48,260
One of the county code in order to address comments provided by FEMA on the recently adopted flood plain ordinance amendment.

2879
04:11:49,040 --> 04:11:49,560
Samay.

2880
04:11:50,360 --> 04:11:51,060
Next second.

2881
04:11:51,760 --> 04:11:55,500
We have a motion by Commissioner Harden and a second by Commissioner Hilton.

2882
04:11:55,660 --> 04:11:57,720
Madam Clerk, please take the roll call.

2883
04:11:57,980 --> 04:11:58,560
Mr. Bajrowski.

2884
04:11:59,340 --> 04:11:59,520
Aye.

2885
04:11:59,920 --> 04:12:00,600
Mr. Sloan.

2886
04:12:01,080 --> 04:12:01,760
Ms. Harden.

2887
04:12:02,520 --> 04:12:02,980
Dr. Hilton.

2888
04:12:03,700 --> 04:12:04,360
Mr. Owens.

2889
04:12:04,900 --> 04:12:06,700
Mr. Chair of the vote is unanimous.

2890
04:12:06,700 --> 04:12:07,540
The motion passes.

2891
04:12:08,640 --> 04:12:09,580
Thank you, Madam Clerk.

2892
04:12:10,180 --> 04:12:14,880
Moving on to our next agenda item to review the cases.

2893
04:12:14,880 --> 04:12:20,780
we will skip our review at the 4PM case, considering it has already occurred, and jump right

2894
04:12:20,780 --> 04:12:23,900
into Mr. Data, who will present our 6PM cases.

2895
04:12:26,910 --> 04:12:32,390
Yes, good afternoon, Mr. Chair. I'm here with the commission, Director Gilles. We have nine

2896
04:12:32,390 --> 04:12:36,770
cases this evening. First one, very pleased we've been bringing forward to you. It's case 23

2897
04:12:36,770 --> 04:12:42,150
S, A, 0, 0, 0, 3, it's in the telecomedisterial district. This is the Western area high school

2898
04:12:42,950 --> 04:12:49,190
substantial cord request, which is a substantial cord determination to determine whether

2899
04:12:49,190 --> 04:12:54,490
it proposed new high school to be located on approximately 108 acres on the properties

2900
04:12:54,490 --> 04:13:02,090
known as 17500, 18000, and 18000, and 18000, and 18000, Duval Road, is substantially

2901
04:13:02,090 --> 04:13:06,910
in accordance with the county's conference plan. Staff recommends approval, and this has been

2902
04:13:06,910 --> 04:13:08,530
in your discussion agenda.

2903
04:13:10,350 --> 04:13:13,010
Next case, we have 23SN-0111.

2904
04:13:13,130 --> 04:13:14,810
This is in the Bermuda Ministry of District.

2905
04:13:15,030 --> 04:13:19,430
We have the Rivers Bend RV storage case, which is a request to amend the Zoning Approval

2906
04:13:19,430 --> 04:13:26,990
Case 95SN-0109 to permit parking and storage of recreational equipment in a residential

2907
04:13:26,990 --> 04:13:32,610
R15 district on 2.77 acres, known as 11949 Hogan's Alley.

2908
04:13:32,890 --> 04:13:35,950
Staff recommends approval, and this has been placed in your consent agenda this evening.

2909
04:13:35,950 --> 04:13:39,370
Next, we have the Dogwood Creek case.

2910
04:13:39,370 --> 04:13:44,430
This is a case 23SN-019, it's in the Motorocomadestrial District.

2911
04:13:45,190 --> 04:13:51,490
It's a request to be done from agricultural A to residential R12 district with the conditional

2912
04:13:51,490 --> 04:13:58,010
use to permit neighborhood recreational facilities for property-fronting approximately 1,080 feet

2913
04:13:58,010 --> 04:14:04,830
on the south side of Gemto Road and 1,530 feet west of Tuckmore pond drive.

2914
04:14:04,830 --> 04:14:09,030
staff is recommending approval and this has been placed in your consent agenda this evening.

2915
04:14:09,710 --> 04:14:15,590
Next we have case 23SN 0123. This is in the mid-Lothian Magisterial District. This is the

2916
04:14:15,590 --> 04:14:21,390
eastern Malothian Caritown tobacco case. It's a request for conditioning used to permit a recreational

2917
04:14:21,390 --> 04:14:26,530
substance use with the conditioning used by a development. In the community business C3 district on

2918
04:14:26,530 --> 04:14:33,770
1.24 acres known as A004 Malothian Turnpike. This afternoon, this afternoon, excuse me,

2919
04:14:33,770 --> 04:14:39,950
You received an in-dendum for this case that provides a revised set of conditions and a building layout plan

2920
04:14:39,950 --> 04:14:42,350
relative to

2921
04:14:42,350 --> 04:14:43,730
Retail uses and

2922
04:14:44,350 --> 04:14:50,730
Recreational substances on the property staff is recommending denial of this request and this has been placed near discussion agenda

2923
04:14:51,330 --> 04:14:53,610
We have case 23 SN

2924
04:14:53,610 --> 04:14:55,030
0 1

2925
04:14:55,030 --> 04:14:59,970
2 5 in the clover hill magistral district is at the foreign wood's case. It's a request to resume from

2926
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:14,780
Your cultural A, your residential R12 district, plus condition you explained available to permit exceptions to ordinance for requirements on 15.3 acres, known as 50 or zero claypoint road, staff recommends approval.

2927
04:15:15,240 --> 04:15:22,140
And this has been placed near discussion agenda. Next we have case 23SN zero one three three. This is in the clover.

2928
04:15:22,140 --> 04:15:24,360
The Hill Industrial District is the Richmond Animal League,

2929
04:15:24,360 --> 04:15:27,460
rezoning and exceptions case is the quest to rezone.

2930
04:15:27,820 --> 04:15:30,420
From light industrial I1 to community business,

2931
04:15:31,220 --> 04:15:33,320
C3 district with conditionings planned development

2932
04:15:33,320 --> 04:15:35,000
from an acceptance to ordinance requirements

2933
04:15:35,000 --> 04:15:39,680
on 4.45 acres known as 11401 International Drive,

2934
04:15:40,560 --> 04:15:43,180
717 and 801 Branchway Road.

2935
04:15:43,820 --> 04:15:44,900
Staff recommends approval,

2936
04:15:45,360 --> 04:15:47,140
and this has been placed in your consent agenda.

2937
04:15:48,240 --> 04:15:51,940
Next, we have case 22SN-0147.

2938
04:15:52,520 --> 04:15:54,100
It's in the Dale Medicine District.

2939
04:15:54,680 --> 04:15:56,340
This is the Rockwood Grove application,

2940
04:15:56,560 --> 04:15:59,420
which is a request to resume from agricultural A.

2941
04:15:59,860 --> 04:16:02,860
Residential R7, corporate office O2,

2942
04:16:03,280 --> 04:16:07,280
and community business C3-2, residential townhouse R-T-H district

2943
04:16:07,280 --> 04:16:08,780
with conditionally used to plan development

2944
04:16:08,780 --> 04:16:11,040
to permit acceptance to ordinance requirements

2945
04:16:11,040 --> 04:16:13,960
on property known as 97-1holstery Road.

2946
04:16:13,960 --> 04:16:20,890
staff does recommend approval and this has been placed near discussion agenda and we have

2947
04:16:20,890 --> 04:16:26,930
the case 23 SN0043. This is in the Bermutum Administrative District. This is the Bensley

2948
04:16:26,930 --> 04:16:34,090
Aggrehood case, which is a request to resume from residential R7 to residential R12, district

2949
04:16:34,090 --> 04:16:39,050
plus conditional use and a condition used plan development to permit acceptance to ordinance

2950
04:16:39,050 --> 04:16:44,710
requirements on a property known as 2600 swine for road. Now the district commissioners

2951
04:16:44,710 --> 04:16:50,370
to deferral to the Plain Commission's regularly scheduled meeting on July 16, 2024.

2952
04:16:51,410 --> 04:16:58,690
And lastly, we have case 23SN-0121. It's a Matokamadestero district. This is the studio

2953
04:16:58,690 --> 04:17:04,050
I'm training case, which is a request for conditionally used to permit a fitness training

2954
04:17:04,050 --> 04:17:10,130
studio incidental to a dwelling. And amendment of a zoning district math in a agricultural aid

2955
04:17:10,130 --> 04:17:16,190
District known as 17600 Elco Road, staff recommends approval, and this has been placed in

2956
04:17:16,190 --> 04:17:17,150
your consent agenda.

2957
04:17:17,810 --> 04:17:19,970
I'd be happy to answer any questions on this evening's agenda.

2958
04:17:21,450 --> 04:17:23,090
Commissioners, have any questions from us to Donald?

2959
04:17:26,470 --> 04:17:26,710
Yep.

2960
04:17:28,920 --> 04:17:36,720
Next item is the approval of the Planning Commission meeting minutes from April 16th, 2024.

2961
04:17:37,980 --> 04:17:38,680
I have a motion.

2962
04:17:41,040 --> 04:17:50,560
Second, we have a motion from Commissioner Owens and a second from Commissioner Sloan for the approval of the April 16th, 2024 planning commission minutes.

2963
04:17:50,720 --> 04:17:53,020
Madam Clerk, please take the roll call.

2964
04:17:53,280 --> 04:17:53,960
Mr. Patrasky?

2965
04:17:54,240 --> 04:17:54,500
Aye.

2966
04:17:54,660 --> 04:17:55,580
Mr. Sloan?

2967
04:17:55,780 --> 04:17:55,960
Aye.

2968
04:17:56,340 --> 04:17:56,940
Ms. Harden?

2969
04:17:57,620 --> 04:17:58,120
Dr. Hilton?

2970
04:17:58,740 --> 04:17:58,940
Aye.

2971
04:17:59,520 --> 04:18:00,220
Mr. Owens?

2972
04:18:00,380 --> 04:18:00,680
Aye.

2973
04:18:01,120 --> 04:18:03,060
Mr. Chair of the vote is unanimous for approval.

2974
04:18:03,700 --> 04:18:04,240
Thank you.

2975
04:18:04,720 --> 04:18:08,640
Our next item will be the planning commission work program update from Mr. Hosh.

2976
04:18:09,620 --> 04:18:15,200
After noon, members of the commission, Mr. Gillies, go quickly over your list of projects that are outstanding.

2977
04:18:15,360 --> 04:18:18,720
Of course, ZOMOD, you are in the guts of ZOMOD now, so congratulations.

2978
04:18:19,260 --> 04:18:21,380
And we look forward to working with you, great discussion.

2979
04:18:22,220 --> 04:18:23,380
So, I'd like to have that back and forth.

2980
04:18:23,840 --> 04:18:27,280
So, thank you for helping us refine the ordinance and make it a little bit better.

2981
04:18:28,040 --> 04:18:32,220
Along with that, we are also working on the subdivision ordinance just to remind you of,

2982
04:18:32,220 --> 04:18:37,520
we are going through that document as well, making sure that it aligns with the proposed

2983
04:18:37,520 --> 04:18:41,980
zone-mod ordinance so that the two of those things were canned in hand, you know, come time

2984
04:18:41,980 --> 04:18:47,840
for adoption. And then as you discussed today of the floodplain management district ordinance,

2985
04:18:49,680 --> 04:18:54,680
reopening that for for some additions there, Mr. Smellie presented that. And then of course,

2986
04:18:54,860 --> 04:18:57,620
in the shade of the Chesapeake Bay Act, Coles Residence and mature trees,

2987
04:18:57,620 --> 04:19:03,860
ordinance as well, so both of those environmental oriented ordinances will be moving forward soon.

2988
04:19:05,320 --> 04:19:10,520
And then in your comp plan projects housing diversity strategy, we continue to meet with our regional partners.

2989
04:19:11,000 --> 04:19:15,880
We're going to be setting up with plan RVA who's got some initiatives underway along with PHA.

2990
04:19:16,360 --> 04:19:23,980
You all may have seen the announcement by Henrico County on some of their housing efforts that they're proposing for their county.

2991
04:19:23,980 --> 04:19:26,880
So I'll be interested in the CPHAs upfront and central on that.

2992
04:19:27,200 --> 04:19:30,220
So look forward to a good discussion with Javan on that.

2993
04:19:30,580 --> 04:19:31,760
Eastern 60 Coder Plan.

2994
04:19:31,900 --> 04:19:34,800
It was good to see you, Mr. Pachowski and Ms. Harden last night.

2995
04:19:34,820 --> 04:19:36,080
I'm sorry, we didn't have a bigger turnout.

2996
04:19:36,220 --> 04:19:39,380
We're going to continue some efforts to get the word out to the public

2997
04:19:39,380 --> 04:19:41,500
about that excellent effort there.

2998
04:19:42,460 --> 04:19:43,600
So can you stay tuned with that?

2999
04:19:43,860 --> 04:19:46,600
We'll start moving into the gathering input phase

3000
04:19:46,600 --> 04:19:49,740
of what people think the Coder should be,

3001
04:19:49,780 --> 04:19:51,260
and what they want to be for the future.

3002
04:19:51,640 --> 04:19:53,240
So can you work with you all on that?

3003
04:19:53,240 --> 04:19:59,260
Of course, chapter 10, the land use plan chapter needs to be updated in hand-in-hand with ZOMOD,

3004
04:19:59,400 --> 04:20:02,980
so as we start, I think we've got the districts in a good place.

3005
04:20:03,020 --> 04:20:07,360
Hopefully we can start looking at the land use plan and making sure that land use plan categories

3006
04:20:07,360 --> 04:20:10,320
and the ZOMOD categories are complementing each other.

3007
04:20:10,760 --> 04:20:15,240
And then the bikeways and trails plan update, we are moving forward with a consultant on that

3008
04:20:15,240 --> 04:20:19,940
to prioritize and redefine some of those bike projects and where they should go

3009
04:20:19,940 --> 04:20:21,840
and narrowing those down a little bit,

3010
04:20:21,980 --> 04:20:24,660
so I hope to bring that to you some point in a near future.

3011
04:20:25,440 --> 04:20:27,780
And then we're excited to kick off another area plan

3012
04:20:27,780 --> 04:20:29,580
on the corridor, Mr. Owens.

3013
04:20:30,140 --> 04:20:31,780
And I don't know if it'll, I don't think it'll touch

3014
04:20:31,780 --> 04:20:34,280
your district in Cloverhill, Miss Harden,

3015
04:20:35,060 --> 04:20:37,420
but probably the Western Hull Street corridor planned,

3016
04:20:37,940 --> 04:20:40,440
look forward to doing that this summer, so stay tuned there.

3017
04:20:40,660 --> 04:20:42,080
And then long term in the future,

3018
04:20:42,200 --> 04:20:43,680
the Northern Route 10 corridor plan,

3019
04:20:44,260 --> 04:20:46,720
we're still looking toward that, Dr. Hilton as well.

3020
04:20:47,480 --> 04:20:49,460
And with that, we have to answer any questions anyone has

3021
04:20:49,460 --> 04:20:57,880
your projects. Thank you. Any questions from staff? I just wanted to say that was a great

3022
04:20:57,880 --> 04:21:04,020
presentation last night and thanks to staff for all your hard work and going into that.

3023
04:21:04,340 --> 04:21:09,600
It's very well done. Yeah, Drew Brett did a great job. Sorry they're not here right now, but thank

3024
04:21:09,600 --> 04:21:10,500
you for that.

3025
04:21:13,670 --> 04:21:19,590
Thank you. Okay is there any other business that the commissioner staff would like to

3026
04:21:19,590 --> 04:21:21,970
discussed during our work session today.

3027
04:21:22,870 --> 04:21:23,110
Okay?

3028
04:31:07,310 --> 04:31:12,950
Good evening and welcome to the evening session of the May 21st, 2024 planning commission meeting.

3029
04:31:13,570 --> 04:31:22,870
We're pleased to have the QR code available. Anyone who's interested may scan the QR code that has been provided in download the agenda and all the staff reports for tonight's meeting.

3030
04:31:23,410 --> 04:31:28,650
We'll leave that on the screen for a few moments if anybody wants to, I see some phones out.

3031
04:31:28,650 --> 04:31:30,030
and that you are code.

3032
04:31:36,760 --> 04:31:40,780
It looks like everybody has the agenda downloaded, who wants it.

3033
04:31:41,360 --> 04:31:43,940
So moving along, tonight's invocation

3034
04:31:43,940 --> 04:31:46,400
will be given by Commissioner Owens.

3035
04:31:47,700 --> 04:31:48,400
Good evening.

3036
04:31:49,700 --> 04:31:51,460
About a year and a half or so ago,

3037
04:31:51,760 --> 04:31:54,260
Will Smith calls it an upper world with this slap

3038
04:31:54,260 --> 04:31:56,040
that was kind of heard around the world.

3039
04:31:56,420 --> 04:31:58,820
But Will Smith can also teach us a few lessons.

3040
04:31:59,460 --> 04:32:01,900
It is graduation season for universities, colleges,

3041
04:32:02,000 --> 04:32:03,020
and high schools.

3042
04:32:03,020 --> 04:32:10,080
Along with that is the realization by quite a few people that the structure life that they live will not be the same anymore.

3043
04:32:11,080 --> 04:32:16,640
Some will go under the careers, some will take on full-time jobs, some will continue on to college to get their degrees.

3044
04:32:17,480 --> 04:32:20,060
But let's talk about how Will Smith will teach us some lessons.

3045
04:32:20,480 --> 04:32:27,780
If you get a chance and don't do it now, but do it later, go to YouTube and do a search for Will Smith Skydiving.

3046
04:32:27,780 --> 04:32:38,620
And it's a video where he talks about his first time getting ready to skydive and how he was in complete fear and it kept him up all night all the way to the point when he got to the door of the plane and

3047
04:32:38,620 --> 04:32:45,120
He was completely scared of death and then when he went out of the plane it was just complete bliss and

3048
04:32:45,120 --> 04:32:46,880
He realized himself that

3049
04:32:46,880 --> 04:32:52,260
He had no no reason to fear because he was fearing something that was unknown

3050
04:32:52,940 --> 04:32:56,540
So as many of us move on to the things we're doing on our life like those are graduating

3051
04:32:56,540 --> 04:33:07,320
We all have fear inside of us, and when we realize that the fear really isn't something that we need to have, life becomes happier and the anxiety that we have about some things disappear.

3052
04:33:08,420 --> 04:33:12,020
In the book, who moved my cheese? That was about fear of change.

3053
04:33:12,820 --> 04:33:18,620
But it was still about fear. Challenge your fears and overcome them. The worst thing that can happen is you might fail.

3054
04:33:19,080 --> 04:33:22,280
But if you do that in fear, you haven't even better chance of failing.

3055
04:33:23,280 --> 04:33:24,260
So please join me with the pledge.

3056
04:33:24,260 --> 04:33:25,040
I

3057
04:33:29,290 --> 04:33:32,330
pledge allegiance to the flag of being nice.

3058
04:33:48,080 --> 04:33:49,320
Thank you commissioner Owens.

3059
04:33:50,600 --> 04:33:57,780
Next, we will entertain any request to postpone action emergency additions or changes in the order of presentation.

3060
04:33:58,040 --> 04:34:01,680
Do any commissioners want to make any changes or additions to this evening's agenda?

3061
04:34:03,620 --> 04:34:04,860
Okay, I'm seeing none.

3062
04:34:05,500 --> 04:34:06,400
We will move on.

3063
04:34:06,740 --> 04:34:10,000
The next item is our review of the meeting procedures.

3064
04:34:10,000 --> 04:34:13,860
Director Gillies will you please review the meeting procedures for us?

3065
04:34:14,080 --> 04:34:14,840
Yes, sir.

3066
04:34:15,080 --> 04:34:21,660
On a controlled basis, the Planning Commission will be hearing in-person public comments from

3067
04:34:21,660 --> 04:34:28,300
citizens tonight, presentations by individual individuals, is limited to three minutes, and presentations

3068
04:34:28,300 --> 04:34:31,640
by groups are limited to five minutes.

3069
04:34:32,000 --> 04:34:37,260
For security reasons, no flash drives or documents are permitted to be passed out.

3070
04:34:37,260 --> 04:34:43,340
The Citizens' comment period gives citizens an opportunity to voice their concerns.

3071
04:34:43,780 --> 04:34:46,840
It is not a time to engage in dialogue with the commissioners.

3072
04:34:47,420 --> 04:34:51,300
To provide more opportunity for public comments, the Planning Department has been taking

3073
04:34:51,300 --> 04:34:56,800
citizen comments regarding the public hearing items on tonight's agenda through the public

3074
04:34:56,800 --> 04:35:03,980
comments portal on the Chesterfield Planning Department's website since May 14, 2024.

3075
04:35:03,980 --> 04:35:10,920
In addition to the portal, we receive telephone messages and emails specifically directed to the planning department.

3076
04:35:11,100 --> 04:35:17,340
All these comments, the portal comments, telephone and emails received by 5 p.m.

3077
04:35:23,650 --> 04:35:30,350
My 5 p.m. Monday, May 20th, 2024 have been provided to the commissioners.

3078
04:35:30,350 --> 04:35:38,270
The Planning Commission makes recommendations on conditional uses, conditional use, plan developments, and rezoning cases.

3079
04:35:39,030 --> 04:35:42,930
If a case is withdrawn, there's no public hearings regarding that request.

3080
04:35:43,230 --> 04:35:50,690
If the Commission recommends approval or denial of these items tonight, the item will be afforded to the Board of Supervisors for Final Action.

3081
04:35:50,690 --> 04:35:56,530
Following tonight's meeting, you may obtain information on the date and time of the Board of

3082
04:35:56,530 --> 04:36:01,610
Supervisors public hearing on the conditional use, conditional use, plan development and

3083
04:36:01,610 --> 04:36:08,470
re-zoning requests by visiting the agenda center at www.cesterfield.gov slash agenda

3084
04:36:08,470 --> 04:36:15,570
center or by calling 804-748-1050 and providing the case number.

3085
04:36:15,570 --> 04:36:21,410
Thank you, Director Gilles. Next is our citizen comment period on unscheduled matters and

3086
04:36:21,410 --> 04:36:25,730
bobbing the services policies and affairs of the county government regarding planning

3087
04:36:25,730 --> 04:36:31,670
or land use issues. Director Gilles, will you please read that statement for us?

3088
04:36:31,870 --> 04:36:32,350
Yes sir.

3089
04:36:34,010 --> 04:36:40,730
In this portion of the meeting, only specific public comments involving the services policies and

3090
04:36:40,730 --> 04:36:45,530
affairs of county government regarding planning and land use matters may be presented.

3091
04:36:45,530 --> 04:36:51,530
These comments may not address any matter of business that is subject to the commission's agenda today.

3092
04:36:52,710 --> 04:36:59,190
The Senate's in comment period shall be limited to 15 minutes, and each speaker may not exceed three minutes.

3093
04:36:59,890 --> 04:37:08,450
Any comments on unscheduled manners submitted to the website portal telephone or emails received by 5pm Monday, May 20, 2020,

3094
04:37:08,730 --> 04:37:10,690
have been provided to the commissioners tonight?

3095
04:37:11,990 --> 04:37:20,410
Thank you, director Gillies. We do not have anyone signed up for unscheduled matters, but is there anyone present who would like to speak on please approach?

3096
04:37:26,360 --> 04:37:30,660
Mr. Chairman, there is another commission. Mr. Gillies, my name is Greg Allen.

3097
04:37:32,000 --> 04:37:36,720
I want to speak tonight about what happens when mistakes are made during the zoning process.

3098
04:37:36,720 --> 04:37:43,760
You know, one, there may be a legal issue that comes up, but there may also be a difficulty

3099
04:37:43,760 --> 04:37:49,340
in achieving your vision that you had for your projects when it's actually built, a point

3100
04:37:49,340 --> 04:37:53,200
strongly made, I missed your slurn, this afternoon in our discussions.

3101
04:37:53,800 --> 04:37:56,860
So I want to use an example from last month.

3102
04:37:57,980 --> 04:38:00,140
This is the Benton Woods Zone in case.

3103
04:38:01,020 --> 04:38:03,920
It didn't address certain requirements for common area.

3104
04:38:04,580 --> 04:38:09,480
Now, the common area for this plant, I just want to orient you what is shown here with

3105
04:38:09,480 --> 04:38:14,960
the loss in the gray area is left over land, not in lots, in part of it is common area.

3106
04:38:16,460 --> 04:38:20,440
But the common area plan called for a strategic common area, something you've been talking

3107
04:38:20,440 --> 04:38:26,760
about today, to be 2.1 acres in size is what was needed for the amount of loss that were

3108
04:38:26,760 --> 04:38:29,360
reduced, the sizes that were reduced.

3109
04:38:29,360 --> 04:38:33,400
Now, if you look up here in this

3110
04:38:36,020 --> 04:38:40,640
area here, it talks about how there needs to be that 2.1 acres,

3111
04:38:41,160 --> 04:38:44,920
and down below it lists a focal point, which happens to be this area right here.

3112
04:38:45,340 --> 04:38:46,800
There's 0.5 acres.

3113
04:38:48,000 --> 04:38:54,980
It makes a point that there are some other areas called a play field area that has to that,

3114
04:38:55,080 --> 04:38:58,300
but let's just take a look at that play field area.

3115
04:38:58,300 --> 04:39:02,560
And first, for the benefit of the audience, I want to give a definition of strategic

3116
04:39:02,560 --> 04:39:04,640
common area because that's the key.

3117
04:39:04,900 --> 04:39:08,520
And I quote it from the ordinance, strategic common area should provide the community

3118
04:39:08,520 --> 04:39:14,600
residents with an opportunity for high quality aesthetic and or active outdoor amenities.

3119
04:39:15,900 --> 04:39:20,040
So when you look at this plan, you first off have to realize how small these lots are.

3120
04:39:20,060 --> 04:39:23,420
These lots range from 3,500 to 5,000 square feet.

3121
04:39:23,660 --> 04:39:26,600
So this scale of things really starts to change.

3122
04:39:26,600 --> 04:39:28,880
these aren't regular 12,000 square foot lots.

3123
04:39:30,260 --> 04:39:33,800
The other area that they claim is their strategic common area.

3124
04:39:35,880 --> 04:39:38,100
Is this little area right here?

3125
04:39:40,340 --> 04:39:44,080
It's wedged in behind these small lots.

3126
04:39:44,320 --> 04:39:48,440
I guess to above it, a call to sack lot in the back.

3127
04:39:48,820 --> 04:39:52,040
And then all this area here, well this is the sound set back

3128
04:39:52,040 --> 04:39:53,380
from Chip and Ham Parkway.

3129
04:39:53,680 --> 04:39:55,680
You can't be cleared or graded.

3130
04:39:55,680 --> 04:39:57,460
So it has to stay in the sports condition.

3131
04:40:00,170 --> 04:40:03,610
So much of this area, if I actually color it in,

3132
04:40:04,810 --> 04:40:09,150
this is all Columbia gas, gas line easement.

3133
04:40:10,330 --> 04:40:13,210
OK, so what we have here is what's called supposed

3134
04:40:13,210 --> 04:40:14,910
to be a strategic common area.

3135
04:40:15,330 --> 04:40:17,250
It's squeezed in between all these lots

3136
04:40:17,250 --> 04:40:21,310
and the sound set back area.

3137
04:40:21,870 --> 04:40:24,390
It's shaped in an odd shape, triangular shape,

3138
04:40:24,670 --> 04:40:26,630
and at least half of it's overlapping,

3139
04:40:26,630 --> 04:40:31,950
a commonwealth gas easement. I'm sorry Mr. Alie time is up. Okay, I have just two sentences left.

3140
04:40:33,550 --> 04:40:38,770
All right, so since common area is the legal requirement, excuse me, the common area requirement.

3141
04:40:39,070 --> 04:40:44,670
For reducing a lot of sizes, it's supposed to include a certain amount of strategic common area.

3142
04:40:44,810 --> 04:40:48,450
I say that this plan doesn't do it in that when it comes through plan review,

3143
04:40:49,030 --> 04:40:51,730
they may lose some lots in trying to achieve strategic common area.

3144
04:40:53,810 --> 04:41:01,330
Okay, but the point is is that this common area plan was not part of your packet, so you

3145
04:41:01,330 --> 04:41:07,970
never saw it. You were making decisions not based on all the information. These should

3146
04:41:07,970 --> 04:41:11,990
be a part of your packet, and they should be proper. Thank you so much. Thank you Mr. Allen.

3147
04:41:13,750 --> 04:41:17,110
Is there anyone else present who'd like to speak on unscheduled matters?

3148
04:41:20,460 --> 04:41:21,360
Seeing none, we will

3149
04:41:21,360 --> 04:41:24,460
move on to the public hearing portion of the evening.

3150
04:41:26,740 --> 04:41:31,480
Now we will consider the following proposals in this order, requests for withdrawals or

3151
04:41:31,480 --> 04:41:35,880
deferrals, cases where the applicant accepts the recommendation and there is no public

3152
04:41:35,880 --> 04:41:40,680
opposition, code amendments, and cases where the applicant does not accept the recommendation

3153
04:41:40,680 --> 04:41:42,880
and or there is public opposition.

3154
04:41:43,860 --> 04:41:48,920
All of these items, except for withdrawals or subject to a public hearing, either staff or

3155
04:41:48,920 --> 04:41:52,400
Commissioner will be asked to report any citizen comments received through the portal.

3156
04:41:52,960 --> 04:41:56,580
Those comments are part of the public record and can be viewed by the public by going to the

3157
04:41:56,580 --> 04:41:58,360
planning page of the Chester County website.

3158
04:41:59,080 --> 04:42:03,120
The comments are located at the bottom of the upcoming agenda meeting section.

3159
04:42:04,320 --> 04:42:09,960
This evening we have one deferral case for consent items and for discussion items we will

3160
04:42:09,960 --> 04:42:14,920
begin with our deferral case, Mr. Donna, will you please present that for us?

3161
04:42:18,120 --> 04:42:18,140
Yes.

3162
04:42:18,160 --> 04:42:19,300
Good evening, Mr. Chair.

3163
04:42:19,300 --> 04:42:24,220
There was a commission for Uli's, and we do have one case receiving this on the deferral

3164
04:42:24,220 --> 04:42:24,500
agenda.

3165
04:42:24,640 --> 04:42:30,180
We have case 23SN, 0043, this is in the Bermuda Magisterial District, this is the Benzley

3166
04:42:30,180 --> 04:42:35,720
Agrehood case, which is a request to resound from Residential R7, 2 Residential R12, District

3167
04:42:35,720 --> 04:42:39,580
plus conditional use and condition use plan development to permit acceptance to ordinance

3168
04:42:39,580 --> 04:42:43,440
requirements on property known as 2600 swine for road.

3169
04:42:43,840 --> 04:42:47,180
District commission is recommending deferral to the planning commission's regularly scheduled

3170
04:42:47,180 --> 04:42:52,660
meeting on July 16th, 2024, we happy to answer any questions on the deferral.

3171
04:42:53,820 --> 04:42:58,800
Thank you, Mr. Dada. Any commissioners have any questions from Mr. Dada?

3172
04:42:59,000 --> 04:43:01,060
I'm not saying none, thank you.

3173
04:43:02,060 --> 04:43:06,480
With the applicant like an opportunity to speak to the deferral,

3174
04:43:10,440 --> 04:43:12,080
it does not appear so.

3175
04:43:12,860 --> 04:43:18,380
With that, I will open the public hearing and I will first turn to Commissioner Sloan since

3176
04:43:18,380 --> 04:43:28,440
This is in the brimuted district and ask if there were any comments on the public portal in relation to the deferral of case 2, 3, S and 0, 4, 3.

3177
04:43:29,180 --> 04:43:32,760
Mr. Chair, yes, and members of the Commission were also provided copies.

3178
04:43:33,460 --> 04:43:42,780
We did receive numerous emails and phone calls into the department, essentially in support of the deferral.

3179
04:43:42,780 --> 04:43:50,800
Many folks in the community are asking for us to come back out to the community to provide an update once we receive update of

3180
04:43:50,800 --> 04:43:51,840
Prophors from the applicant.

3181
04:43:53,240 --> 04:43:54,760
Thank you, Commissioner Sloan.

3182
04:43:55,520 --> 04:44:00,960
With that, I will open the public hearing if anyone present would like to speak in either support

3183
04:44:00,960 --> 04:44:04,600
their opposition to the request for deferral on this case.

3184
04:44:04,880 --> 04:44:11,640
Hello, my name is Renee Albert, and I would like for you to support Mr. Sloan on the

3185
04:44:11,640 --> 04:44:24,280
the community really does not know what's going on, so we would really like a community, another community meeting and I'll really hope you all support his deferral.

3186
04:44:24,760 --> 04:44:27,820
Thank you, Ms. Eldred. Anyone else present who would like to speak?

3187
04:44:30,200 --> 04:44:35,980
Seeing none, I will now close the public hearing and turn this over to Commissioner Sloan.

3188
04:44:38,230 --> 04:44:39,250
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3189
04:44:40,210 --> 04:44:45,410
And I do want to offer just a couple of comments just to kind of bring everybody up to speed.

3190
04:44:46,550 --> 04:44:49,590
There is a significant amount of disinformation.

3191
04:44:51,330 --> 04:44:59,110
I can tell everybody if you want to find out if you want to do a search on things that probably aren't exactly true.

3192
04:44:59,210 --> 04:44:59,890
Go to the internet.

3193
04:45:00,660 --> 04:45:05,780
There's a lot of that out there. And if you want to double down on that, go to social media.

3194
04:45:07,540 --> 04:45:16,480
So I just wanted to take an opportunity to dispel some of the rumors that are out there and make sure we're all on the same page with us.

3195
04:45:16,480 --> 04:45:24,620
This case has been around for quite a while now, and with combination of mine and staffs,

3196
04:45:24,700 --> 04:45:30,660
deferral requests, and kind of the way the procedures of the Planning Commission work,

3197
04:45:31,720 --> 04:45:38,640
this case will come to the full public hearing probably in July, but technically the worst

3198
04:45:38,640 --> 04:45:41,400
possible scenario is it will come to the Commission in August.

3199
04:45:41,480 --> 04:45:46,340
There's a time limit that kind of starts today with a deferral that's not supported

3200
04:45:46,340 --> 04:45:47,180
by the applicant.

3201
04:45:49,200 --> 04:45:53,920
First and foremost, I want to say that the applicant, as well as the planning staff, myself

3202
04:45:53,920 --> 04:46:00,820
and other people, have been in constant communication over this case on a weekly basis.

3203
04:46:02,680 --> 04:46:05,520
There is, you know, complete and open dialogue.

3204
04:46:05,780 --> 04:46:09,580
There are rumors out there that the county is not talking to the applicant, the applicant is

3205
04:46:09,580 --> 04:46:10,400
not talking to the county.

3206
04:46:10,740 --> 04:46:11,660
No, that's true.

3207
04:46:12,100 --> 04:46:13,780
Not even close to being true.

3208
04:46:14,920 --> 04:46:23,400
I will tell you, and just so everybody in the room understands, when it comes to a zoning

3209
04:46:23,400 --> 04:46:33,280
case, the applicant, the person applying for the zoning case, the applicant, is the only

3210
04:46:33,280 --> 04:46:42,180
party that can negotiate various aspects of the case with the planning staff, the applicant,

3211
04:46:42,180 --> 04:46:46,960
And only the applicant can provide voluntary

3212
04:46:46,960 --> 04:46:53,560
Prophors, on a case, tenants, other folks associated

3213
04:46:53,560 --> 04:46:56,960
that may have a relationship with an applicant down the road,

3214
04:46:57,780 --> 04:47:02,000
they cannot negotiate independently of the applicant.

3215
04:47:02,720 --> 04:47:07,380
So only the applicant can make statements to the community

3216
04:47:07,380 --> 04:47:10,820
can provide documentation in writing to the county

3217
04:47:10,820 --> 04:47:15,120
for proper conditions how they want to shape the case, so forth and so on.

3218
04:47:16,600 --> 04:47:20,860
There's been quite a bit of back and forth over the past 90 days, and where the case sits

3219
04:47:20,860 --> 04:47:28,460
right now, county staff is waiting for the applicant to submit what we believe to be the

3220
04:47:28,460 --> 04:47:32,120
last and probably most up-to-date set of Prophors on the case.

3221
04:47:32,120 --> 04:47:37,380
The applicant has expressed a willingness to change some of the proper conditions in the case.

3222
04:47:38,020 --> 04:47:40,440
We're not exactly sure what those are.

3223
04:47:41,380 --> 04:47:46,640
What I have promised to the community, because over the past several months, I have actually

3224
04:47:46,640 --> 04:47:51,600
acted as the liaison on trying to keep community organizations, a prized of current status

3225
04:47:51,600 --> 04:47:53,040
of the case and so forth.

3226
04:47:53,780 --> 04:47:59,200
So once we receive, once we receive the latest round of updated profits from the applicant

3227
04:47:59,200 --> 04:48:06,540
and staff has had plenty of time to review those, make sure everything's legal and eyes dotted

3228
04:48:06,540 --> 04:48:15,040
he's cross, I will be asking the staff to organize a community meeting where the staff can

3229
04:48:15,040 --> 04:48:24,620
present the most up-to-date staff report to the folks in the community that are most affected.

3230
04:48:25,820 --> 04:48:30,220
The applicant is, we would love for the applicant to participate in the process, I'm sure

3231
04:48:30,220 --> 04:48:36,520
they will, but this will be a staff directed exercise to make sure that the most up-to-date

3232
04:48:36,520 --> 04:48:42,380
today's information is provided to be provided to the community.

3233
04:48:42,640 --> 04:48:45,220
So that's what we hope to achieve over the next 60 days.

3234
04:48:46,180 --> 04:48:49,540
And as they used to say that we're trying to get this train

3235
04:48:49,540 --> 04:48:52,380
in the station and either get the passengers on or off,

3236
04:48:52,940 --> 04:48:53,860
but we're trying to bring it home.

3237
04:48:54,380 --> 04:48:56,620
So with that long-winded narrative, Mr. Chair,

3238
04:48:56,900 --> 04:49:02,880
I do ask the Commission to support me in the recommendation

3239
04:49:02,880 --> 04:49:08,940
of deferral for case number 23, SN0043, and the Bremuda district, the Bensley Agra

3240
04:49:08,940 --> 04:49:12,860
Hood, to our regularly scheduled meeting of July 16th, 2024.

3241
04:49:15,140 --> 04:49:19,100
Okay, we have a motion by Commissioner Sloan and a second by Commissioner Owens.

3242
04:49:19,360 --> 04:49:21,440
Madam Clerk, will you please take the roll call?

3243
04:49:21,880 --> 04:49:22,680
Mr. Petrosky?

3244
04:49:23,160 --> 04:49:23,440
Aye.

3245
04:49:23,520 --> 04:49:24,380
Mr. Sloan?

3246
04:49:25,020 --> 04:49:25,560
Ms. Harden?

3247
04:49:25,800 --> 04:49:25,980
Aye.

3248
04:49:26,200 --> 04:49:26,840
Dr. Hilton?

3249
04:49:27,640 --> 04:49:28,380
Mr. Owens?

3250
04:49:28,540 --> 04:49:28,800
Aye.

3251
04:49:29,040 --> 04:49:31,800
Mr. Chair, the motion is unanimous and that motion passes.

3252
04:49:32,440 --> 04:49:38,280
Madam Clerk. We will now move on to our consent items where the applicant accepts the staff

3253
04:49:38,280 --> 04:49:43,220
recommendation and there is no public opposition. If there is opposition, the case will be

3254
04:49:43,220 --> 04:49:50,860
placed at the beginning of the discussion items. Mr. Dino. Yes, the first case is case 23SN-011. This is

3255
04:49:50,860 --> 04:49:55,280
the room for mutimed material district. This is the river's been RV storage case, which is a request

3256
04:49:55,280 --> 04:50:04,860
to amend Zoning Approval Case 95SN-0109 to permit parking and storage of recreational equipment

3257
04:50:04,860 --> 04:50:10,240
and a residential R15 district on 2.77 acres known as 11949 Hogan's Alley.

3258
04:50:10,960 --> 04:50:15,500
A recreational equipment storage facility for the exclusive use of the Rivers Bend community

3259
04:50:16,140 --> 04:50:25,040
with previously granted Zoning Approval in 2019 with case 20 or excuse 19SN-0621 for

3260
04:50:25,040 --> 04:50:30,160
property, the conditions of the zoning, granted a three-year time limit for the use.

3261
04:50:30,620 --> 04:50:34,880
And this is the case before you this evening is a renewal of this zoning approval.

3262
04:50:35,660 --> 04:50:38,900
Staffricum is a approval, so there's the conditions in your staff report.

3263
04:50:39,920 --> 04:50:44,720
Next up, we have Case 23SN0121, this is in the Mathematical Mathisterial District, this is the

3264
04:50:44,720 --> 04:50:46,480
studio M training case.

3265
04:50:46,480 --> 04:50:50,840
It's a request for conditionally used to permit a fitness training studio incidental to

3266
04:50:50,840 --> 04:50:53,920
dwelling in a memory of the Zone District map

3267
04:50:53,920 --> 04:50:58,360
in the agricultural aid district known as 17600 Elco Road.

3268
04:50:59,100 --> 04:51:03,260
Previous zoning case, 18SN 0841 authorized the business

3269
04:51:03,260 --> 04:51:05,560
through a conditional use, which has since expired.

3270
04:51:06,000 --> 04:51:07,600
The applicants are questioned to amend the conditions

3271
04:51:07,600 --> 04:51:10,660
of the original case to allow for expansion of the business,

3272
04:51:11,160 --> 04:51:13,720
but to continue to limit the use

3273
04:51:13,720 --> 04:51:15,860
to the existing accessory structure on the property.

3274
04:51:16,460 --> 04:51:18,460
Staff recommends approval of this

3275
04:51:18,460 --> 04:51:21,280
this subject to the conditions in your staff report.

3276
04:51:22,840 --> 04:51:26,200
Next case, we have 23SN, 0133.

3277
04:51:26,220 --> 04:51:28,040
This is in the Clover Hill Medical District.

3278
04:51:28,260 --> 04:51:31,840
This is the Richmond Animal League Resonating and Acceptance case.

3279
04:51:31,840 --> 04:51:34,440
It's a request to resume from Light Industrial I1.

3280
04:51:35,180 --> 04:51:39,060
Two community business C3 District with Conditioning Use Plan Development to permit acceptance

3281
04:51:39,060 --> 04:51:46,500
to ordinance requirements on 4.45 acres, known as 11401 International Drive, 717 and

3282
04:51:46,500 --> 04:51:48,940
801 branch weight road.

3283
04:51:49,340 --> 04:51:51,160
Continue to use the site for commercial uses,

3284
04:51:51,580 --> 04:51:54,480
including a veterinary clinic in commercial kennel

3285
04:51:54,480 --> 04:51:55,240
is proposed.

3286
04:51:55,540 --> 04:51:56,840
The staff recommends approval

3287
04:51:57,380 --> 04:51:59,740
against subject to the conditions in your staff report.

3288
04:52:00,960 --> 04:52:02,660
And then lastly on the consent agenda this evening,

3289
04:52:02,800 --> 04:52:06,200
we have case 203SN-0119.

3290
04:52:06,220 --> 04:52:07,740
It's in the Matoka, Magisterial District.

3291
04:52:07,740 --> 04:52:09,620
This is the Dogwood Creek case.

3292
04:52:09,620 --> 04:52:11,840
It's a request to resume from agricultural A

3293
04:52:11,840 --> 04:52:15,360
to residential R12 district with conditional use.

3294
04:52:15,360 --> 04:52:24,580
To permit a neighborhood recreational facility for property-fronting approximately 1,080 feet on the south side of Janto Road,

3295
04:52:25,540 --> 04:52:30,200
1,500 feet west of the Tukmar Pong of Tukmar Pong Drive.

3296
04:52:30,620 --> 04:52:34,360
A community comprised of 293 single family detached residences,

3297
04:52:35,100 --> 04:52:38,260
with the associate of neighborhood recreational facilities is proposed.

3298
04:52:38,920 --> 04:52:40,480
The staff recommends approval,

3299
04:52:40,480 --> 04:52:46,200
subject to the conditions in your staff report. I'd be happy to answer any questions on the consent agenda.

3300
04:52:46,660 --> 04:52:49,540
Thank you, Mr. Donna, do any commissioners have any questions from Mr. Donna?

3301
04:52:52,160 --> 04:52:56,500
Would any of the applicants like an opportunity to speak to their cases?

3302
04:53:06,700 --> 04:53:11,880
Mr. Chair, my members of the Planning Commission, my name is Will Schumack. I'm with the law firm of Wood Rogers

3303
04:53:11,880 --> 04:53:20,180
and I just wanted to take a moment to thank Ryan Ramsey, other members of the province and staff that have worked on this

3304
04:53:20,180 --> 04:53:27,280
This case is going to allow Richmond Animal League for its vision of meeting the future

3305
04:53:27,280 --> 04:53:30,760
needs of this community, but to leg it to four leg it.

3306
04:53:31,520 --> 04:53:34,740
And we really appreciate all the hard work that went into this and the guidance.

3307
04:53:34,940 --> 04:53:35,980
So thank you very much.

3308
04:53:36,640 --> 04:53:37,420
Thank you, Mr. Schumack.

3309
04:53:38,260 --> 04:53:40,100
Anyone else present who'd like to speak?

3310
04:53:40,940 --> 04:53:41,420
Applicants.

3311
04:53:42,900 --> 04:53:48,100
So with that, I will open the public hearing and begin by asking staff or commissioners if there

3312
04:53:48,100 --> 04:53:54,880
any comments that you'd like to report from the portal email or voicemails received quite

3313
04:53:54,880 --> 04:53:56,560
a bit of support for Studio training.

3314
04:53:57,920 --> 04:53:59,200
Thank you.

3315
04:54:02,270 --> 04:54:05,570
I received two letters of support for the Dockwich Creek.

3316
04:54:06,450 --> 04:54:07,890
I also did that as well.

3317
04:54:10,150 --> 04:54:10,790
Thank you.

3318
04:54:11,150 --> 04:54:17,550
Is there anyone present who would like to speak in either support or opposition to any of these

3319
04:54:17,550 --> 04:54:19,610
four cases that only consent to gender?

3320
04:54:22,680 --> 04:54:31,020
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing, and I will entertain a motion to recommend approval

3321
04:54:31,020 --> 04:54:37,780
subject to the conditions in the four-staff reports for Case 2 3 S and 0 1 1 1 in the

3322
04:54:37,780 --> 04:54:44,780
Bremuda District, Guerrero's Ben RV Storage, Case 2 3 S and 0 1 2 1 in the Matouka District,

3323
04:54:45,140 --> 04:54:50,900
Studio M Training, Case 2 3 S and 0 1 3 3 in the Clover Hill District, Richmond, Adamally,

3324
04:54:50,900 --> 04:54:55,900
rezoning in exceptions in case 2, 3, S and 0, 1, 1, 9 in the

3325
04:54:55,900 --> 04:54:58,140
matolic of District, Dogwood Creek.

3326
04:54:58,640 --> 04:54:58,900
So moved.

3327
04:55:00,060 --> 04:55:04,520
Second, we have a motion by Commissioner Owens and a second by Commissioner

3328
04:55:04,520 --> 04:55:04,980
Hilton.

3329
04:55:05,340 --> 04:55:07,820
Madam Clerk will you please take a roll call.

3330
04:55:08,520 --> 04:55:09,240
Mr. Petrovsky.

3331
04:55:09,800 --> 04:55:09,960
Hi.

3332
04:55:10,200 --> 04:55:11,040
Mr. Sloan.

3333
04:55:11,740 --> 04:55:12,320
Ms. Harden.

3334
04:55:12,480 --> 04:55:12,760
Hi.

3335
04:55:12,900 --> 04:55:13,580
Dr. Hilton.

3336
04:55:14,400 --> 04:55:15,040
Mr. Owens.

3337
04:55:15,640 --> 04:55:16,460
Mr. Chair.

3338
04:55:16,540 --> 04:55:18,580
The vote is unanimous and that motion passes.

3339
04:55:19,600 --> 04:55:19,940
Thank you.

3340
04:55:19,940 --> 04:55:26,380
Madam Clerk, next we will move on to our discussion items and the first one will be presented

3341
04:55:26,380 --> 04:55:27,380
by Rich Saunders.

3342
04:55:27,520 --> 04:55:27,680
I believe.

3343
04:55:28,040 --> 04:55:28,780
Thank you.

3344
04:55:31,500 --> 04:55:32,760
Good evening, Chairman Petrosky.

3345
04:55:32,980 --> 04:55:34,740
Members of the Commission and Director Gillies.

3346
04:55:36,000 --> 04:55:39,440
I present to you case 23, SA003.

3347
04:55:40,300 --> 04:55:45,400
This is in the Meto-Comatisero District and it's a substantial accord determination that's

3348
04:55:45,400 --> 04:55:48,340
requested by the Planning Department to permit a new public high school.

3349
04:55:49,780 --> 04:55:57,640
A new public high school is proposed on the north side of Duval Road, approximately 0.3 miles west of its intersection with Otterdale Road.

3350
04:55:58,600 --> 04:56:06,680
Staff recommends approval of the proposal as it beats the following guidance that's provided in the county's comprehensive plan for high school sites.

3351
04:56:06,680 --> 04:56:14,060
The first is acreage sites are recommended to be approximately 80 acres. The site is 108 acres.

3352
04:56:15,020 --> 04:56:21,680
Second is capacity, a recommended for 2400 students and the proposed capacities 2400.

3353
04:56:22,940 --> 04:56:28,680
The third criteria is direct access to at least one, but preferably two major arterial roads.

3354
04:56:29,360 --> 04:56:33,760
There is access to one arterial road in Duval Road, which will be improved to four lanes.

3355
04:56:33,760 --> 04:56:49,740
There's also going to be access to a second to be built for Lane Collector Road, and then the fourth criteria is that high school site would not be located within an existing developed residential area, and the site is not located within a developed residential subdivision.

3356
04:56:52,180 --> 04:57:01,160
Here's a zoning map. You can see the property which is 108 acres is currently zone residential. It's surrounded by properties that are zone agricultural and also residential.

3357
04:57:02,020 --> 04:57:07,840
Although public high school is permitted by right use in residential, the county charter requires

3358
04:57:08,420 --> 04:57:12,860
a determination that such uses in substantial accordance with the comprehensive plan.

3359
04:57:14,710 --> 04:57:20,170
Next, this is an aerial land use map of the property. You can see the property outlined in white.

3360
04:57:20,950 --> 04:57:23,830
The land use plan designates the area for single-family uses.

3361
04:57:26,690 --> 04:57:28,370
This is the map of the five-year

3362
04:57:28,370 --> 04:57:35,890
facilities plan, which proposes a new Western 360 area high school, generally the location

3363
04:57:35,890 --> 04:57:43,310
is shown north of Route 360, South the Genitor Road, and west of the Swift Creek Reservoir.

3364
04:57:44,130 --> 04:57:47,950
The map is intended to show the general location of the proposed public school facilities

3365
04:57:47,950 --> 04:57:51,730
and does not articulate specific sites for new facilities.

3366
04:57:53,730 --> 04:57:57,870
This is a general layout plan of the proposed high school, showing the approximate location

3367
04:57:57,870 --> 04:58:03,510
of buildings, parking areas, access drives and athletic fields. The new school would be served

3368
04:58:03,510 --> 04:58:08,390
by a dual road which will be improved to four lanes and a new north-to-south collector road,

3369
04:58:08,410 --> 04:58:09,950
which will also be four lanes.

3370
04:58:12,920 --> 04:58:16,000
Here's a little bit of information on site selection criteria

3371
04:58:16,000 --> 04:58:23,100
in addition to meeting the comprehensive plans, communities, facilities plan. The site was selected

3372
04:58:23,100 --> 04:58:29,020
over many others that were considered some of which are highlighted in this analysis.

3373
04:58:29,020 --> 04:58:35,220
sites 10 and 11 generated significant discussion at the community meeting that was held in March

3374
04:58:35,220 --> 04:58:41,780
20. Ultimately, these two sites were eliminated from consideration due to access limitations,

3375
04:58:42,500 --> 04:58:47,000
environmental features, infrastructure costs, and the planned expansion of Hornar Park.

3376
04:58:47,880 --> 04:58:53,940
Planning staff further supports site 13 over 10 and 11 because of its proximity to existing

3377
04:58:53,940 --> 04:58:58,440
residential areas that the high schools serve because of its location on the east side

3378
04:58:58,440 --> 04:59:04,000
at the proposed expansion of Hoi Parkway where residential density is greater and because

3379
04:59:04,000 --> 04:59:10,860
the removal of site 11 preserves industrial zone land that will have convenient access to the

3380
04:59:10,860 --> 04:59:16,460
expansion of Hoi Parkway. As I said, there was a community meeting that was held at Cosby

3381
04:59:16,460 --> 04:59:21,720
High School in March the 20th. The format of the meeting was open was an open house format

3382
04:59:21,720 --> 04:59:27,520
and there was information that was provided from planning, schools, transportation and economic development.

3383
04:59:28,440 --> 04:59:32,720
Citizens that were in attendance were provided with forms that they were able to provide common on.

3384
04:59:33,780 --> 04:59:40,420
The Department of Transportation also provided a link to an online survey for their overall capital improvement projects within the vicinity.

3385
04:59:42,020 --> 04:59:49,940
There was quite a bit of feedback provided in some of the highlights of concerns where just the overall proximity to Cosby High School.

3386
04:59:49,940 --> 04:59:53,460
It's approximately three miles away from the current cost-be-high school site.

3387
04:59:54,300 --> 04:59:58,360
There was concern with the condition, the current condition of roads, particularly with

3388
04:59:58,360 --> 04:59:59,680
auto-dale and deep-all routes.

3389
05:00:00,400 --> 05:00:07,300
There was desire from some residents for improvements to do ball road to extend west of the high school site.

3390
05:00:08,200 --> 05:00:12,560
And then there was just general feedback about alternative sites and also traffic congestion.

3391
05:00:14,940 --> 05:00:22,400
To conclude with staff recommendations, staff is still recommending approval of this request as the proposed location complies with the community facilities plan,

3392
05:00:23,040 --> 05:00:29,840
which is an element of the county's comprehensive plan, and satisfies the criteria of location, character and extent, is specified in the code of Virginia.

3393
05:00:30,820 --> 05:00:32,340
That concludes my presentation.

3394
05:00:33,280 --> 05:00:36,980
Mr. Saunders, do any commissioners have any questions?

3395
05:00:37,940 --> 05:00:39,520
Yes, I have a couple of questions.

3396
05:00:40,440 --> 05:00:41,820
This is currently zoned for residential.

3397
05:00:43,260 --> 05:00:45,620
So should this be found in substantial accord?

3398
05:00:46,140 --> 05:00:50,680
How many residential units will be removed from that site?

3399
05:00:50,740 --> 05:00:52,560
How many residential units would be eliminated?

3400
05:00:53,480 --> 05:00:54,580
Didn't write down the memorabilitation.

3401
05:00:55,560 --> 05:00:59,480
I think it's 311 that we're in that particular zoning case.

3402
05:00:59,480 --> 05:01:03,100
before. So, a little over 300 units.

3403
05:01:04,640 --> 05:01:06,480
I was just double check and I'm going to make sure.

3404
05:01:07,400 --> 05:01:09,300
Thought I saw the number 600 somewhere.

3405
05:01:14,450 --> 05:01:18,050
See, 21S and 0675.

3406
05:01:18,410 --> 05:01:20,910
Allow for the development of public facilities and single-family development

3407
05:01:20,910 --> 05:01:22,730
with up to 600 lots.

3408
05:01:23,550 --> 05:01:24,850
21S and 0675.

3409
05:01:25,210 --> 05:01:25,730
That was there.

3410
05:01:25,730 --> 05:01:29,570
You're correct with that being for the upper mag E's case.

3411
05:01:29,850 --> 05:01:31,870
Okay. So this is only a small portion of the upper mag.

3412
05:01:31,870 --> 05:01:32,710
So this is a wrap for you.

3413
05:01:32,910 --> 05:01:36,210
This is mostly the cold creek number that Andy was referring to.

3414
05:01:36,410 --> 05:01:38,310
Thank you.

3415
05:01:39,090 --> 05:01:41,770
And then I think I'm okay with you.

3416
05:01:41,790 --> 05:01:43,870
I have a couple of questions for CDOT.

3417
05:01:44,610 --> 05:01:44,710
Okay.

3418
05:01:45,170 --> 05:01:45,470
We're running.

3419
05:01:56,670 --> 05:01:56,910
Good evening.

3420
05:01:59,360 --> 05:02:00,140
So a couple of questions.

3421
05:02:00,400 --> 05:02:04,420
The development of the North South collector road and the widening of the devol.

3422
05:02:04,520 --> 05:02:08,640
Are those scheduled to be done prior to the school being open and giving certificate of occupancies?

3423
05:02:09,300 --> 05:02:09,660
Yes.

3424
05:02:10,080 --> 05:02:10,340
Okay.

3425
05:02:10,340 --> 05:02:13,040
So those will be completely developed and won't come after.

3426
05:02:13,380 --> 05:02:17,020
It's not going to be the chicken in the egg situation, whichever one is supposed to come

3427
05:02:17,020 --> 05:02:17,640
first will be there.

3428
05:02:17,780 --> 05:02:18,280
That's correct.

3429
05:02:18,900 --> 05:02:19,160
All right.

3430
05:02:19,860 --> 05:02:25,140
Are there plans with other developments that are happening east of the school that they

3431
05:02:25,140 --> 05:02:31,080
are going to be required to extend the four, is CDOT want to ask them to extend the four lanes,

3432
05:02:31,920 --> 05:02:35,500
pass the high school as part of their cases whenever they bring their cases forward?

3433
05:02:36,140 --> 05:02:36,980
When are there plans?

3434
05:02:37,200 --> 05:02:37,340
Yeah.

3435
05:02:37,340 --> 05:02:44,780
So whenever there's cases west of the high school site on Devol Road, they'll be required to widen and improve their front edge along Devol Road.

3436
05:02:45,680 --> 05:02:46,060
This is west.

3437
05:02:47,260 --> 05:02:47,600
All right.

3438
05:02:48,060 --> 05:02:48,980
That's all I have.

3439
05:02:51,060 --> 05:02:51,420
Thank you.

3440
05:02:51,660 --> 05:02:52,840
Anybody else for?

3441
05:02:53,680 --> 05:02:53,920
All right.

3442
05:02:54,200 --> 05:02:55,600
As Mr. Smithley here.

3443
05:02:57,580 --> 05:02:57,840
Show.

3444
05:02:57,960 --> 05:02:59,260
We don't have environmental here.

3445
05:02:59,800 --> 05:02:59,900
Okay.

3446
05:03:00,040 --> 05:03:01,500
I don't think he stayed.

3447
05:03:02,560 --> 05:03:02,920
Okay.

3448
05:03:03,880 --> 05:03:03,960
All right.

3449
05:03:03,980 --> 05:03:06,300
That's the only question that I have so far.

3450
05:03:06,840 --> 05:03:07,000
Thank you.

3451
05:03:07,000 --> 05:03:11,860
is the applicant present and would they like an opportunity to speak?

3452
05:03:12,420 --> 05:03:15,800
We are the applicant. Somebody could speak on behalf of the vote.

3453
05:03:16,220 --> 05:03:18,300
Hello. All right.

3454
05:03:18,300 --> 05:03:19,900
Mr. Owens has spoken.

3455
05:03:21,740 --> 05:03:26,040
Okay, so I will open the public hearing and start by asking Commissioner Owens if there

3456
05:03:26,040 --> 05:03:28,720
were any comments online from.

3457
05:03:29,140 --> 05:03:32,960
So we've had some comments at both the meeting and I've had some direct contact with

3458
05:03:32,960 --> 05:03:38,300
residents, those comments, both I've had good comments of people who are excited about the

3459
05:03:38,300 --> 05:03:42,280
high school coming in. We've had a few people that are not happy with the location.

3460
05:03:44,580 --> 05:03:44,860
So

3461
05:03:44,860 --> 05:03:50,080
it's been a mix of four and against a lot more for positive.

3462
05:03:53,040 --> 05:03:56,000
With that, I will ask if there's

3463
05:03:56,000 --> 05:04:00,620
anyone present who would like to speak in the Hebrew or opposition to case two, three,

3464
05:04:02,000 --> 05:04:05,800
SA003 in the Metallica District, the Western Area High School Substantial Accord.

3465
05:04:16,960 --> 05:04:20,040
Good evening again, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission and Mr. Gillies.

3466
05:04:20,460 --> 05:04:25,000
I'm only got here because there were a number of residents who had to attend the Cosby High School

3467
05:04:25,000 --> 05:04:27,280
Graduation tonight and could not be here.

3468
05:04:27,660 --> 05:04:31,400
And we're frustrated that they couldn't, so I'm speaking to them.

3469
05:04:32,240 --> 05:04:38,360
And in three minutes, there was really a lot of time to review the true cost of site 10 versus site 13.

3470
05:04:38,360 --> 05:04:42,320
But I just wanted to cover a few of the issues that residents have.

3471
05:04:43,860 --> 05:04:50,580
The beauty of Site 10, which is really part of Hornet Park, is that it co-locates the school with Hornet Park.

3472
05:04:51,320 --> 05:04:56,240
And therefore, the fields and athletic facilities can be shared between the school and the park.

3473
05:04:56,680 --> 05:05:04,580
Whereas over on Site 13, those fields will be additional items that will have to be built in that land use for that purpose.

3474
05:05:05,760 --> 05:05:12,720
The road costs would seem to transfer from one site to the other, just depends upon how you want to build the road network at the time.

3475
05:05:14,040 --> 05:05:18,460
And, site 10 would allow the road network at Hornet Park and Westerley to be completed.

3476
05:05:19,860 --> 05:05:25,340
Site 10 is clearly the more central to the expected school district for the Westernery High School.

3477
05:05:26,000 --> 05:05:29,580
And, in fact, is where the site was shown on the comprehensive plan.

3478
05:05:30,240 --> 05:05:35,360
And lastly, I am concerned about the neighborhoods that are being built along the South

3479
05:05:35,360 --> 05:05:41,620
Line of Devol Road, two of those Lower Magnolia Green, as well as Doug Sauer, who will

3480
05:05:41,620 --> 05:05:42,600
be building two more.

3481
05:05:44,000 --> 05:05:50,840
They will become cutthrews, if in fact, this tight location on F of Site 13 with the Western

3482
05:05:50,840 --> 05:05:56,160
Area High School being right on Devol Road, all this neighborhood will be cut through for the traffic

3483
05:05:56,160 --> 05:05:57,640
coming from Lower Magnolia Green.

3484
05:05:57,640 --> 05:06:00,460
there won't be any reason to kind of go around the bend,

3485
05:06:00,940 --> 05:06:03,500
auto-dale, to hear, they'll just cut through those neighborhoods.

3486
05:06:04,240 --> 05:06:06,640
People buying in those neighborhoods had no idea

3487
05:06:06,640 --> 05:06:10,100
this was going to happen to them, and it will be a night and day change

3488
05:06:10,100 --> 05:06:13,700
in terms of the traffic on these quiet secondary roads.

3489
05:06:14,440 --> 05:06:15,320
Thank you.

3490
05:06:17,550 --> 05:06:19,730
Anyone else present who would like to speak?

3491
05:06:23,220 --> 05:06:24,960
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing

3492
05:06:24,960 --> 05:06:26,780
and hand this over to Commissioner Oads.

3493
05:06:27,420 --> 05:06:30,660
Yes, so I think of the sites, there was extensive study done

3494
05:06:30,660 --> 05:06:36,340
And this site here turned out to be the best of them based on the reports that were provided.

3495
05:06:37,380 --> 05:06:41,580
So I would like to make a motion that this side is substantially in accordance with the Comprehensive Plan.

3496
05:06:43,240 --> 05:06:47,040
The motion by Commissioner Owens, or actually, is there any discussion?

3497
05:06:49,540 --> 05:06:53,200
We have a motion by Commissioner Owens and a second by Commissioner Sloan.

3498
05:06:53,380 --> 05:06:55,540
Adam Clark, will you please take the roll call?

3499
05:06:56,200 --> 05:06:56,940
Mr. Petrosky?

3500
05:06:57,380 --> 05:06:57,660
Aye.

3501
05:06:58,020 --> 05:06:58,900
Mr. Sloan?

3502
05:06:59,000 --> 05:06:59,260
Aye.

3503
05:06:59,660 --> 05:07:00,300
Ms. Harden?

3504
05:07:00,620 --> 05:07:00,860
Aye.

3505
05:07:01,600 --> 05:07:02,180
Dr. Hilton?

3506
05:07:02,720 --> 05:07:02,920
Aye.

3507
05:07:02,920 --> 05:07:04,140
Mr. Owens.

3508
05:07:04,620 --> 05:07:07,880
Mr. Chair, the vote is unanimous and that motion passes.

3509
05:07:08,380 --> 05:07:09,100
Thank you, Madam Clerk.

3510
05:07:09,580 --> 05:07:12,600
Our next case, we will invite Mr. Saunders.

3511
05:07:12,760 --> 05:07:17,060
I believe back up to discuss case 2, 3, S, and 0, 1, 2, 5 in the

3512
05:07:17,060 --> 05:07:18,800
Clover Hill District, Arnam Woods.

3513
05:07:19,940 --> 05:07:21,000
Thanks again, commission.

3514
05:07:22,640 --> 05:07:26,740
This case, again, is 23, S, and 0, 1, 2, 5 called

3515
05:07:28,020 --> 05:07:38,100
This is a request to rezone from a agricultural to R12 to permit up to 46 slots on 15.37 acres.

3516
05:07:38,860 --> 05:07:41,700
The density of the proposal is 3.0 units per acre.

3517
05:07:42,640 --> 05:07:47,220
Exceptions to ordinance requirements of requested for lots eyes, lot width, coverage,

3518
05:07:47,900 --> 05:07:50,100
building setbacks and required road furniture.

3519
05:07:53,070 --> 05:07:54,930
This is just an overview of the site.

3520
05:07:54,930 --> 05:08:01,020
You can see the zoning map, currently it's zone agricultural, surrounded by both agricultural

3521
05:08:01,020 --> 05:08:02,520
and residential districts,

3522
05:08:06,170 --> 05:08:09,630
areas that are area properties are zone residential in our

3523
05:08:09,630 --> 05:08:13,910
culture to the north and south, and then residential to the east and west, next slide.

3524
05:08:16,320 --> 05:08:20,980
The first image on the left shows the properties being primarily vacant with single family

3525
05:08:20,980 --> 05:08:22,800
dwelling that's located near the road furniture.

3526
05:08:23,760 --> 05:08:27,840
The reapportion of the property is predominantly wooded while the front portion of the property

3527
05:08:27,840 --> 05:08:31,860
largely an open field with a pond along the southern property line.

3528
05:08:32,600 --> 05:08:37,000
A joining properties to the north and south are also large lots and prove the single family

3529
05:08:37,620 --> 05:08:38,140
dwellings.

3530
05:08:38,560 --> 05:08:42,300
So, a joining properties to the east are a residential properties that are part of the parish

3531
05:08:42,300 --> 05:08:47,060
branch subdivision to the west of the property across Claypoint is Crenshaw Elementary

3532
05:08:47,060 --> 05:08:47,900
School.

3533
05:08:48,660 --> 05:08:53,340
The second image on the right shows the comprehensive plan land use, which calls for suburban

3534
05:08:53,340 --> 05:08:54,440
residential too.

3535
05:08:55,820 --> 05:09:03,200
This slide shows the proper concept plan that details the general intent of the community lay out in common areas.

3536
05:09:03,980 --> 05:09:06,800
The applicant is seeking to develop up to 46 lots.

3537
05:09:07,840 --> 05:09:14,280
In addition to the proposed single-family loss that the applicant proposes a focal area that's situated towards the front of the development.

3538
05:09:14,800 --> 05:09:19,700
That would be adjacent to the pond, as well as additional open space throughout the development.

3539
05:09:21,060 --> 05:09:27,760
The focal point area towards the front would be approximately 7.75 acres. It will include a hard

3540
05:09:27,760 --> 05:09:34,580
scape area with benches and other amenities to facilitate gatherings. All residential lots will

3541
05:09:34,580 --> 05:09:40,620
be served by a driveway that will have all street parking. The entirety of the development as you

3542
05:09:40,620 --> 05:09:47,260
can see would be surrounded by common area and a buffer that would vary in width from 20 to 50 feet.

3543
05:09:49,370 --> 05:09:53,230
This shows the conceptual images that were included in the Prophors.

3544
05:09:54,730 --> 05:09:58,490
Other conditions include high-quality building materials,

3545
05:09:59,010 --> 05:10:01,530
and time and not in the requirements requirements

3546
05:10:01,530 --> 05:10:04,850
for enhanced garage doors and front-loaded units.

3547
05:10:05,570 --> 05:10:08,290
These lots would have driveways, front-walks,

3548
05:10:08,490 --> 05:10:11,050
screening for HVAC units, and whole-house generators.

3549
05:10:12,170 --> 05:10:14,850
The exposed portion of any foundation shall be brick or stone,

3550
05:10:14,990 --> 05:10:17,170
and if any dwelling units constructed on a slab,

3551
05:10:17,170 --> 05:10:25,290
Frickerson must be used around the base of the front and sides of the dwelling unit at a minimum of 24 inches above grade to give the appearance of a foundation.

3552
05:10:27,690 --> 05:10:32,810
The applicants proposal include several modifications to development standards in the R12 district.

3553
05:10:33,670 --> 05:10:36,430
These are further outlined in the staff report.

3554
05:10:38,050 --> 05:10:43,970
Staff feels that exceptions will have a minimal impact on area properties and the request is conditioned with an integrated plan.

3555
05:10:44,350 --> 05:10:46,450
That's no less beneficial to area properties.

3556
05:10:46,450 --> 05:10:47,490
The

3557
05:10:50,120 --> 05:10:57,360
proposed development provides quality design and architecture that results in an attractive and harmonious community that will complement this surrounding development.

3558
05:10:58,320 --> 05:11:03,760
As conditions this request, again, will be no less beneficial to adjoining property owners and provided in your data plan.

3559
05:11:05,220 --> 05:11:13,100
Design standards of the development include a focal point gathering area, open space, and time and not in your requirements and sidewalks and both sides of residential streets.

3560
05:11:13,780 --> 05:11:15,200
We just go to the last slide real quick.

3561
05:11:15,200 --> 05:11:20,120
And then I just wanted to highlight they didn't include the applicant, the common area exhibit.

3562
05:11:20,840 --> 05:11:28,240
So minimum common area in strategic amenity areas are being provided with the development which will be confirmed during plans of you.

3563
05:11:29,640 --> 05:11:35,260
Thank you Mr. Saunders. Any questions from Mr. Saunders or any staff on this?

3564
05:11:37,760 --> 05:11:40,940
Is the applicant present would they like an opportunity to speak?

3565
05:11:50,190 --> 05:11:55,170
Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Members of the Commission to Director Gilles. My name is Ann Miller.

3566
05:11:55,350 --> 05:11:58,690
I am a planner with Ballzarn Associates representing the applicant this evening.

3567
05:11:59,450 --> 05:12:03,690
I do want to thank Rich Saunders and Commissioner Harden for working on this case with us,

3568
05:12:03,770 --> 05:12:08,130
and we're pleased to bring it to you with the recommendation of approval from staff this evening.

3569
05:12:08,790 --> 05:12:13,350
I'm just going to touch on a few things, but staff's presentation was great.

3570
05:12:13,350 --> 05:12:20,370
But as Rich pointed out, we are, the proposal includes a maximum of 46 D-touch single-family

3571
05:12:20,370 --> 05:12:26,350
dwelling units on 15.37 acres, so that does equate to the three units per acre, which is

3572
05:12:26,350 --> 05:12:29,830
right in line with the comprehensive plan that calls for two to four in this area.

3573
05:12:31,370 --> 05:12:34,910
The lot size is proposed during the response to the housing market, and similar to another

3574
05:12:34,910 --> 05:12:39,190
subdivision in the area that the applicant has already developed known as Cosby Estate's

3575
05:12:39,190 --> 05:12:46,130
at Turner Farm. The proposal assurance concept plan does include the common area as he pointed out

3576
05:12:47,410 --> 05:12:53,330
including the focal point in the existing pond which will have a trail around it, but it also

3577
05:12:53,330 --> 05:12:59,910
does have buffers around the entire development. So as you all know buffers are not typically required

3578
05:12:59,910 --> 05:13:05,070
between subdivisions or properties known to agricultural, but it is being offered in this case because

3579
05:13:05,070 --> 05:13:09,490
applicants feel it'll be an asset to the future residents and the existing neighbors.

3580
05:13:10,930 --> 05:13:14,350
The common area including the buffers will be maintained by the HOA.

3581
05:13:15,150 --> 05:13:21,130
So the internal roads will be public with sidewalks and street trees on both sides to create a cohesive

3582
05:13:21,130 --> 05:13:27,090
and attractive streetscape. The proposal includes one safe primary access to a major roadway,

3583
05:13:27,270 --> 05:13:31,750
claypoint road, the applicant is providing transportation improvements and cash

3584
05:13:31,750 --> 05:13:33,670
offers to address its impacts.

3585
05:13:34,470 --> 05:13:36,390
The location of the access to the subdivision

3586
05:13:36,390 --> 05:13:39,410
is proposed at the southern end of the road

3587
05:13:39,410 --> 05:13:42,070
front edge as requested by the transportation department

3588
05:13:42,070 --> 05:13:44,710
to provide distance from the signal at Claypoint

3589
05:13:44,710 --> 05:13:46,330
Road and Bailey Bridge Road.

3590
05:13:47,630 --> 05:13:49,750
We are providing subred to the north and south

3591
05:13:49,750 --> 05:13:51,490
of the development for future connections

3592
05:13:51,490 --> 05:13:54,430
if those properties were to be redeveloped.

3593
05:13:54,710 --> 05:13:56,330
Those subreds are provided an importance

3594
05:13:56,330 --> 05:13:58,930
with local and state connectivity requirements.

3595
05:13:58,930 --> 05:14:07,870
We are not proposing any connections to any existing subdivisions with this proposal as shown on the concept plan.

3596
05:14:09,310 --> 05:14:12,970
The applicants did have a traffic said they completed, even though it was not required,

3597
05:14:13,450 --> 05:14:15,990
and that has been shared with county staff.

3598
05:14:16,610 --> 05:14:18,670
They will continue to work with C.N.B.D.

3599
05:14:18,670 --> 05:14:25,610
to ensure that an adequate safe primary access is provided to the subdivision.

3600
05:14:26,370 --> 05:14:30,990
Finer homes is the proposed developer and they have developed numerous subdivisions in this county.

3601
05:14:31,690 --> 05:14:35,770
They are always willing to work with the county and neighbors even after in the entitlement process.

3602
05:14:36,610 --> 05:14:40,270
To bring quality, well-designed subdivision to life and this will be no exception.

3603
05:14:41,130 --> 05:14:45,070
Because of their experience and reputation, we believe this is a wealth that that subdivision

3604
05:14:45,070 --> 05:14:48,590
and will provide a needed housing choice within this area.

3605
05:14:49,170 --> 05:14:53,810
We agree with staff's recommendation and assessment and all the conditions in the staff report

3606
05:14:53,810 --> 05:14:57,870
And we asked for your recommendation of approval this evening.

3607
05:14:58,510 --> 05:14:59,970
I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

3608
05:15:00,690 --> 05:15:04,170
Thank you, Ms. Miller. Does anybody have any questions for the applicant?

3609
05:15:06,910 --> 05:15:08,410
Thank you.

3610
05:15:09,250 --> 05:15:13,550
With that, I will open the public hearing and commissioner Harden, since this is in

3611
05:15:13,550 --> 05:15:18,130
Clover Hill, I will start with asking if you received any comments online or be a

3612
05:15:18,130 --> 05:15:18,470
phone.

3613
05:15:18,750 --> 05:15:26,150
Yes, I did. Since Friday, we received either eight letters or voice

3614
05:15:26,150 --> 05:15:29,370
mail messages through the county portal.

3615
05:15:30,190 --> 05:15:33,270
This was from a peer city from eight individuals.

3616
05:15:34,730 --> 05:15:40,710
The issues that were raised and all of these were requesting denial.

3617
05:15:41,930 --> 05:15:46,090
The issues that were raised were concerns with the traffic,

3618
05:15:46,390 --> 05:15:48,770
concerns with the environment,

3619
05:15:48,770 --> 05:15:58,170
possibility of overturning the school, concern was expressed about the location of the

3620
05:15:58,170 --> 05:16:06,710
entrance, and several people seemed to be under the impression that this was a townhouse

3621
05:16:06,710 --> 05:16:09,290
development, which it is not.

3622
05:16:11,550 --> 05:16:15,330
but then the other comments dealt with,

3623
05:16:15,330 --> 05:16:18,550
they just did not wanted this area to stay agricultural

3624
05:16:19,270 --> 05:16:21,650
and did not want development here,

3625
05:16:21,670 --> 05:16:24,010
wanted it up close to spring run.

3626
05:16:24,550 --> 05:16:26,350
Thank you for sharing that Commissioner Harden.

3627
05:16:26,930 --> 05:16:28,170
With that, I will open her,

3628
05:16:28,290 --> 05:16:29,850
I will ask if there's anybody present

3629
05:16:29,850 --> 05:16:33,030
who would like to speak in opposition or sport of this case.

3630
05:16:36,080 --> 05:16:36,760
If you can stay church.

3631
05:16:36,760 --> 05:16:37,720
Hi, good evening.

3632
05:16:38,260 --> 05:16:38,520
Good evening.

3633
05:16:38,980 --> 05:16:40,360
My name is Gael Yos.

3634
05:16:40,360 --> 05:16:45,400
I've been living in that same little area since 1977.

3635
05:16:47,180 --> 05:16:52,040
It has been zone agricultural from day one since I've been living there.

3636
05:16:52,580 --> 05:16:56,820
And we've had farm animals there and we've had gardens there.

3637
05:16:57,440 --> 05:16:59,180
It's a nice area.

3638
05:17:00,120 --> 05:17:00,520
Quiet.

3639
05:17:01,600 --> 05:17:04,900
Yes, we do have a subdivision on one side, the plantara.

3640
05:17:05,420 --> 05:17:08,240
I'm sure you're very aware of that subdivision.

3641
05:17:08,320 --> 05:17:09,380
How large it is.

3642
05:17:10,860 --> 05:17:20,540
In that area, as they're proposed, there is a traffic light and it only goes two ways.

3643
05:17:21,160 --> 05:17:29,880
It goes from claypoint road to the stop light that it veers off and goes to North Bailey Bridge

3644
05:17:29,880 --> 05:17:37,680
and veers left to claypoint and I'll live right down claypoint, off the Seedor Springs road.

3645
05:17:38,990 --> 05:17:55,230
Yes, she has alluded to Ms. Harden. We are concerned with the number of people are the schools that we already have. They're very overcrowded as well.

3646
05:17:55,230 --> 05:17:59,390
We have two churches on claypoint road.

3647
05:18:00,550 --> 05:18:05,470
We have the one elementary school on claypoint road.

3648
05:18:06,810 --> 05:18:11,210
And we have a high school for the down on North Bailey Bridge.

3649
05:18:12,310 --> 05:18:18,270
So right there in that area two houses down from the stop light

3650
05:18:18,270 --> 05:18:22,730
for where this proposed development may be.

3651
05:18:22,730 --> 05:18:52,550
We're very concerned of the traffic flow because we're getting that traffic going in all directions, people coming home down below North Bailey Bridge as you know we have a huge development another development called I'm sorry it just my memory just goes blank here.

3652
05:18:53,330 --> 05:18:58,270
Well, anyway, it's two developments down that area as well.

3653
05:18:59,110 --> 05:19:08,670
So with all the said, we're considering the impact with the sewage system, the water system,

3654
05:19:09,890 --> 05:19:16,430
the road itself, it's only two lanes, going one way or the other, has there been any traffic

3655
05:19:16,430 --> 05:19:28,090
I mean, any studies done for the current traffic pattern that we have and timed it to see how many

3656
05:19:28,090 --> 05:19:36,190
total cars are going in that intersection there almost across the street from the proposed site.

3657
05:19:38,010 --> 05:19:47,870
We're concerned of the impact that what it can bring as far as the traffic

3658
05:19:47,870 --> 05:19:51,830
Again, going out of that development, I'm sorry.

3659
05:19:52,650 --> 05:19:55,570
And also, will this mean incur cost?

3660
05:19:56,050 --> 05:20:01,590
Has the county put together what the cost would be involved into when the roads may be wide

3661
05:20:01,590 --> 05:20:04,050
in the roads or the sewage or the water?

3662
05:20:04,390 --> 05:20:07,290
And our tax is going to go up when this occurs.

3663
05:20:07,990 --> 05:20:12,110
All of those questions we have, but we don't have answers for.

3664
05:20:13,680 --> 05:20:20,960
I would like to have some studies done and some of the things that I just mentioned and get back

3665
05:20:20,960 --> 05:20:28,380
with this community and have another meeting and share the impact that it's going to, what it will be.

3666
05:20:29,100 --> 05:20:37,680
Not only to the community residents, but to everyone that are traveling on that road as well.

3667
05:20:37,920 --> 05:20:38,380
Thank you, Monsieur.

3668
05:20:39,020 --> 05:20:40,360
Thank you so much.

3669
05:20:41,860 --> 05:20:44,620
So, anyone else present who would like to speak?

3670
05:20:51,650 --> 05:20:53,350
Mr. Chairman, we're going to go along one more time.

3671
05:20:53,590 --> 05:20:55,010
I might speak against this case.

3672
05:20:55,110 --> 05:20:57,390
I just want to go in up some considerations,

3673
05:20:58,010 --> 05:20:59,950
especially given our conversation this afternoon.

3674
05:21:01,050 --> 05:21:04,350
Can this plan concept plan be shown on the screen?

3675
05:21:07,070 --> 05:21:09,510
Okay, so this is 46 slots,

3676
05:21:09,730 --> 05:21:11,960
and we talked about how hard it is for an HOA

3677
05:21:13,450 --> 05:21:16,110
to survive, especially the small ones.

3678
05:21:16,110 --> 05:21:21,850
And so from my historical perspective, the one thing that I have seen of the 30 years

3679
05:21:21,850 --> 05:21:27,570
that I served the county was that the neighborhoods from our past, the only thing

3680
05:21:27,570 --> 05:21:32,330
they did have for a minute to areas was common area often just forested.

3681
05:21:33,090 --> 05:21:39,810
Those HOAs could easily go defunct, so to speak, because there really was no maintenance

3682
05:21:39,810 --> 05:21:41,230
to those forested areas.

3683
05:21:41,230 --> 05:21:47,410
It was an easy thing to let happen, and the neighbors didn't suffer from it at all.

3684
05:21:47,670 --> 05:21:53,850
So when you look at these new subdivisions, you start to look at, well, how can you reduce the

3685
05:21:53,850 --> 05:21:59,130
impact of this neighborhood? Because as we see in neighbors, our very concerned about how it's

3686
05:21:59,130 --> 05:22:04,530
changing their lives. But the more forced area you put into these buffers, you know, if I was

3687
05:22:04,530 --> 05:22:10,370
looking at this case, I would have asked the developer, could you put 10 more feet into that 30 feet?

3688
05:22:10,370 --> 05:22:22,110
These are still very deep lots for the small houses are going on them, and if you could, that means that when people see these things developed, they're going to see more of the force of air remaining, especially on the primitives.

3689
05:22:22,750 --> 05:22:27,510
And those are the things that don't really need maintenance by nature away.

3690
05:22:28,130 --> 05:22:37,990
So looking at the long term change that we're looking at these small lots, one of the best ways to do is to try to reduce the impact and save as much force at areas we can.

3691
05:22:38,430 --> 05:22:39,050
Thank you.

3692
05:22:40,620 --> 05:22:42,840
Anyone else present who would like to speak?

3693
05:22:47,820 --> 05:22:50,760
Seeing none, I will now close the public hearing

3694
05:22:50,760 --> 05:22:54,700
and ask the applicant if they would like an opportunity for a rebuttal.

3695
05:23:04,190 --> 05:23:11,050
Just want to touch on the things I heard. The transportation analysis is in your staff report

3696
05:23:11,630 --> 05:23:16,870
and there are some upcoming ray projects in the area that C.D.A. has outlined and was discussed

3697
05:23:16,870 --> 05:23:20,630
started our community meeting, but I won't go into that.

3698
05:23:21,110 --> 05:23:24,330
The developer will pay for their own improvements

3699
05:23:24,330 --> 05:23:27,690
along the road front edge and the turn lane,

3700
05:23:27,690 --> 05:23:33,590
the left turn lane, and they'll also pay $9,400 per single family

3701
05:23:33,590 --> 05:23:35,450
lots per the cash proper policy.

3702
05:23:35,950 --> 05:23:39,110
So those will be paid to the county.

3703
05:23:39,750 --> 05:23:42,570
And we are connecting to public utilities.

3704
05:23:43,330 --> 05:23:44,750
Utilities has looked at this.

3705
05:23:44,750 --> 05:23:50,110
and have any comments and are supported of the case, we're also designing the on-site wastewater

3706
05:23:50,110 --> 05:23:56,270
collection system to provide direct access to do to adjacent properties. And then within the

3707
05:23:56,270 --> 05:24:01,110
residential development there are connection fees for utilities. So again another cost that the

3708
05:24:01,110 --> 05:24:07,330
developer will pay to the county. So I just wanted to touch on those two things as well as environmental

3709
05:24:07,330 --> 05:24:11,490
engineering that they've also reviewed the case and it'll have to meet all the Virginia storm

3710
05:24:11,490 --> 05:24:17,910
management program regulations. So, but happy to answer any questions if you all have any.

3711
05:24:18,410 --> 05:24:27,530
I do. Yes. So, I recall that the first iteration of this development before the

3712
05:24:28,450 --> 05:24:37,990
the community meeting, the entrance was has been relocated since then. Correct, and that was based on

3713
05:24:37,990 --> 05:24:42,570
or maybe that was from the initial discussion with staff.

3714
05:24:43,330 --> 05:24:45,990
But can you talk about why the,

3715
05:24:45,990 --> 05:24:47,470
I know that there was some concern

3716
05:24:47,470 --> 05:24:52,550
where it had been that having a here

3717
05:24:52,550 --> 05:24:56,270
or might lessen any kind of backup problems

3718
05:24:56,270 --> 05:24:58,070
and congestion problems,

3719
05:24:58,570 --> 05:25:00,930
could you address what all's gone into that

3720
05:25:00,930 --> 05:25:03,370
and your discussions with V dot and C dot?

3721
05:25:03,910 --> 05:25:04,850
Yes, sure.

3722
05:25:04,850 --> 05:25:13,450
So as Commissioner Hardin has indicated, you know, originally our engineer kind of had the location of the

3723
05:25:13,450 --> 05:25:19,090
actually the entrance further up here to align across from the school. But then after initial

3724
05:25:19,090 --> 05:25:24,290
conversations with the Transportation Department, they asked us to move it down further to the Southern

3725
05:25:24,290 --> 05:25:29,770
entrance to kind of move away from the school and move further from the light at claypoint and

3726
05:25:29,770 --> 05:25:35,830
really broad road. So that's why we have it located here. We are providing the left turn lane

3727
05:25:35,830 --> 05:25:40,420
into the subdivision. So as I previously mentioned, we did a traffic study, and then actually

3728
05:25:41,590 --> 05:25:47,370
contemplated these 46 slots, but also the possible build out of the overall agricultural

3729
05:25:47,370 --> 05:25:53,860
company, like properties that they were to be built out in the future. And with over closer to

3730
05:25:53,860 --> 05:26:00,000
And during 29 months, a left-term lane would be warranted for her B. requirements and a right-term lane would not.

3731
05:26:00,620 --> 05:26:13,380
We understand the county has different thresholds and so we are providing a left-term lane for their requirements and then working with them to provide a right-term lane or some type of right-term improvement for only 46 slots.

3732
05:26:13,820 --> 05:26:23,740
But there's something that the applicant did ahead of time, a traffic study to kind of have those conversations and make sure that they can provide an insurance location and improvements.

3733
05:26:23,740 --> 05:26:25,500
the best possible location.

3734
05:26:29,060 --> 05:26:34,160
I don't have any other questions from Ms. Miller and Ms. Shualdo. I did have a question for staff.

3735
05:26:36,080 --> 05:26:41,340
So the comments about the schools possibly being overburdened.

3736
05:26:41,340 --> 05:26:46,460
I know that was addressed in the staff report. Would you be able to go over that for the folks in the audience?

3737
05:26:47,200 --> 05:26:50,920
Sure. Yeah. Let me pull up the school section report.

3738
05:26:51,620 --> 05:26:52,660
Of course, I had it up earlier.

3739
05:26:52,660 --> 05:26:55,240
And then we would be able to collect it as well.

3740
05:26:56,360 --> 05:26:59,200
So the three schools at the subdivision would

3741
05:26:59,200 --> 05:27:01,480
feed into our Crenshaw Elementary,

3742
05:27:01,760 --> 05:27:04,240
Bailey Bridge, Middle, and Manchester High,

3743
05:27:05,300 --> 05:27:07,540
based on the information that we got from budget,

3744
05:27:08,200 --> 05:27:13,640
the current capacity at Crenshaw is at 90%.

3745
05:27:13,640 --> 05:27:18,400
And this development would add nine students to that school.

3746
05:27:19,220 --> 05:27:21,600
Bailey Bridge is at 88% currently.

3747
05:27:21,600 --> 05:27:27,180
this would add five. Manchester High has currently shown at 101%

3748
05:27:27,180 --> 05:27:32,120
this would add seven students. But it's forecasted to be at 94% by

3749
05:27:32,840 --> 05:27:37,680
2028 likely due to the Western area of high school being constructed.

3750
05:27:39,140 --> 05:27:42,680
They did, we did note from Bailey Bridge middle that show in that it would

3751
05:27:42,680 --> 05:27:49,300
be forecasted to be at 104% by 2028. But from feedback from schools, they

3752
05:27:49,300 --> 05:27:54,220
said that these numbers could perhaps change with the construction of the new middle school as well.

3753
05:27:55,880 --> 05:28:00,940
But these the numbers provided by the schools that the nine additional students that

3754
05:28:00,940 --> 05:28:08,320
cringe saw the five at Bailey Bridge and I didn't catch the number at Manchester that is what

3755
05:28:08,320 --> 05:28:19,280
they're considering to be likely at full build out. Generate yeah those are the numbers that was

3756
05:28:19,280 --> 05:28:26,040
very few at each school. Correct. Yeah. And I did get some feedback. I think at the community

3757
05:28:26,040 --> 05:28:30,300
meetings and folks were concerned about overcrowding at Manchester High because of the number

3758
05:28:30,300 --> 05:28:35,120
of trailers, school trailers. And I spoke to school about what those are being used for and

3759
05:28:35,120 --> 05:28:39,960
those are for the ROTC program. Just as an information on that.

3760
05:28:43,980 --> 05:28:45,960
Anything else? And just to clarify,

3761
05:28:45,960 --> 05:28:49,100
this is all single family homes.

3762
05:28:49,340 --> 05:28:50,580
Single family detached.

3763
05:28:51,300 --> 05:28:52,520
Single family detached.

3764
05:28:53,940 --> 05:28:55,320
And no town homes.

3765
05:28:56,340 --> 05:29:00,960
And the homes that the the photos that were shown were

3766
05:29:01,740 --> 05:29:03,120
Crawford is.

3767
05:29:03,880 --> 05:29:07,300
What type of houses would likely be seen in that area.

3768
05:29:07,440 --> 05:29:07,780
Correct.

3769
05:29:15,060 --> 05:29:15,160
Yeah.

3770
05:29:15,160 --> 05:29:16,360
Thank you.

3771
05:29:18,600 --> 05:29:19,000
Okay.

3772
05:29:19,060 --> 05:29:20,820
So with that.

3773
05:29:20,820 --> 05:29:23,480
because the cases in the Clover Health District.

3774
05:29:24,020 --> 05:29:28,780
Ms. Harden, I will turn it over to you the lead our discussion and motion.

3775
05:29:30,160 --> 05:29:36,280
The commissioners have any additional concerns that haven't been addressed here.

3776
05:29:37,740 --> 05:29:39,260
All right, well, hearing none.

3777
05:29:40,640 --> 05:29:50,300
I recommend that I would like to make a motion that the commission recommends for approval.

3778
05:29:50,300 --> 05:29:59,600
with the conditions specified by staff that we approve case number 23S.

3779
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:08,520
In 0, 1, 2, 5, in the clover hill magistral district, known as pharma woods.

3780
05:30:10,680 --> 05:30:13,980
The motion, we have a second. Any further discussion?

3781
05:30:15,460 --> 05:30:21,680
Any none? Madam Clerk, we have a motion from Commissioner Harden and a second from Commissioner Sloan.

3782
05:30:21,760 --> 05:30:23,280
Will you please take the roll call?

3783
05:30:24,840 --> 05:30:25,660
Mr. Petroski.

3784
05:30:26,920 --> 05:30:27,660
Mr. Sloan.

3785
05:30:28,680 --> 05:30:29,300
Ms. Harden?

3786
05:30:29,580 --> 05:30:30,880
Aye. Dr. Hilton?

3787
05:30:31,700 --> 05:30:32,720
Mr. Owens.

3788
05:30:33,640 --> 05:30:34,120
Mr. Chair.

3789
05:30:34,400 --> 05:30:36,480
The vote is unanimous and that motion passes.

3790
05:30:36,880 --> 05:30:37,580
Thank you, Madam Clerk.

3791
05:30:38,160 --> 05:30:43,780
Our next discussion item is case 22SN-0147 and the Dale District Rockwood Grove.

3792
05:30:43,800 --> 05:30:46,560
And I believe Mr. Donna Hull will be presenting this.

3793
05:30:48,680 --> 05:30:49,440
Hello again.

3794
05:30:50,540 --> 05:30:52,580
Yes, this case was deferred last month.

3795
05:30:52,700 --> 05:30:54,060
Mr. Ramsey is the case manager.

3796
05:30:54,220 --> 05:30:56,200
He went through the case in great detail.

3797
05:30:56,220 --> 05:30:59,820
What I'm going to do this evening is going to revisit where we left off.

3798
05:30:59,820 --> 05:31:06,720
through the general overall proposal we have before us and talk a little bit about the changes

3799
05:31:06,720 --> 05:31:11,560
that have been made to the case since last month. To refresh everyone's memory, this is

3800
05:31:11,560 --> 05:31:16,940
case 22SN-01-47. It's in the Dell Metacereal District. This is the Rockwood Grove case.

3801
05:31:17,540 --> 05:31:22,040
It's a request to resume to residential RTH with conditional use plan development,

3802
05:31:22,180 --> 05:31:28,920
from its acceptance relative to ordinance requirements. This is a site that's 35.41 acres.

3803
05:31:28,920 --> 05:31:31,680
It's address at 97.01.

3804
05:31:31,960 --> 05:31:38,660
Hulstree Road, it's located on the south side of Hulstree Road in approximately 1400 feet east of the intersection with courthouse road.

3805
05:31:39,240 --> 05:31:41,020
There are exceptions associated with this request.

3806
05:31:41,560 --> 05:31:48,500
There's exceptions to to permit an office tracked within the Sewing District, also a bikeway construction exception.

3807
05:31:50,300 --> 05:31:55,380
And request a modified buffer requirements and development standards for the proposed townhouse development.

3808
05:31:55,380 --> 05:32:00,820
another development consists of a mix of townhouse dwellings associated recreational amenities

3809
05:32:00,820 --> 05:32:05,460
and there is an office track included in the project. So move on to next time.

3810
05:32:10,100 --> 05:32:11,300
If you continue

3811
05:32:11,300 --> 05:32:11,760
to

3812
05:32:17,610 --> 05:32:23,730
appreciate it. Okay, so again this applicant is seeking to develop the townhouse development

3813
05:32:24,270 --> 05:32:29,430
neighborhood. It does have an office track. The residential density for the property would be limited

3814
05:32:29,430 --> 05:32:35,170
to a maximum of 260 townhouse units and the proposed residential development contains

3815
05:32:35,550 --> 05:32:40,770
amenities such as active and passive recreational opportunities for residents, as well as an easement

3816
05:32:40,770 --> 05:32:47,530
for a future bike way along Horn of Run. Other amenities include an outdoor hardscape,

3817
05:32:47,610 --> 05:32:55,710
a space, a cover pavilion, there's a dog park and also a few other passive gathering areas

3818
05:32:55,710 --> 05:33:05,530
that we have throughout the development. Now, so what changed when we

3819
05:33:05,530 --> 05:33:08,990
We have a couple of things that changed in the case.

3820
05:33:09,190 --> 05:33:13,890
We had from the case being deferred in the last month.

3821
05:33:14,750 --> 05:33:18,650
We had two different proffers that were revised.

3822
05:33:18,950 --> 05:33:22,050
We had one of the proffers and the textual statement.

3823
05:33:22,490 --> 05:33:26,770
The proffer 19s were changed, which there was a lot of discussion last month as to the

3824
05:33:26,770 --> 05:33:27,830
way for the roadways.

3825
05:33:28,470 --> 05:33:34,370
It was verbally agreed to last month about all the roads being 32 feet wide.

3826
05:33:34,370 --> 05:33:40,570
they went ahead and added that to the, to the, to the proper case, so that's included.

3827
05:33:41,190 --> 05:33:45,370
There's also a change to item four within the textual statement which advises the,

3828
05:33:46,350 --> 05:33:52,190
which increases the buffer in the planting requirements along a whole street road from,

3829
05:33:52,350 --> 05:33:56,470
it was one and a half times perimeter landscape scene at it's two times.

3830
05:33:56,710 --> 05:33:58,730
So that's, that's the step in the right direction.

3831
05:34:00,190 --> 05:34:02,690
So those are the two changes that we had in the proposal.

3832
05:34:02,690 --> 05:34:09,850
our recommendation still remains approval. From staff, we are some of the rationality discussed

3833
05:34:09,850 --> 05:34:16,050
last month, we stick by. We have the project contains a small amount of office space,

3834
05:34:16,230 --> 05:34:22,450
in addition to the residential uses, as generally consistent with the conference of planned land

3835
05:34:22,450 --> 05:34:26,890
land use, planned designation for corporate office as well as the medium high residential.

3836
05:34:27,930 --> 05:34:32,210
The proposal offers an infill development opportunity serving as a transition between the

3837
05:34:32,210 --> 05:34:37,510
the Oxbridge Square shopping center and the fallen creek farm subdivision to the east.

3838
05:34:38,350 --> 05:34:42,870
The residential densities consistent with the plans of recommendation, supporting medium high density.

3839
05:34:43,570 --> 05:34:50,490
residential uses between rockwood, rockwood core area to the west, and of course the existing single family uses to the east.

3840
05:34:51,870 --> 05:34:57,570
The applicant's conceptual plan also provides an important roadway connection through the property,

3841
05:34:57,570 --> 05:35:05,190
providing vehicular and a pedestrian length to Paulette Road to the Oxbridge Drive to Oxbridge Drive

3842
05:35:05,190 --> 05:35:11,570
and of course the shopping center on the west side there. And so greater connectivity is provided

3843
05:35:11,570 --> 05:35:18,890
with the development of this project. And then lastly, the development will provide a high quality housing

3844
05:35:18,890 --> 05:35:23,890
option within the locking distance to existing and proposed commercial and makes use of development

3845
05:35:23,890 --> 05:35:29,250
core within development within the core area of the Rockwood special focus area plan.

3846
05:35:29,850 --> 05:35:31,530
And so with that, I'll be happy to answer your questions.

3847
05:35:32,750 --> 05:35:36,550
Mr. Dono, any questions for Mr. Dono or any other staff?

3848
05:35:40,260 --> 05:35:41,380
The applicant like an applicant.

3849
05:35:58,140 --> 05:35:58,900
Good evening, Mr. Chairman.

3850
05:35:59,160 --> 05:35:59,960
Members of the Commission.

3851
05:36:00,460 --> 05:36:03,520
My name is Jeff Geiger here on behalf of the applicant.

3852
05:36:05,920 --> 05:36:06,940
I want to thank you.

3853
05:36:07,400 --> 05:36:07,660
Thanks.

3854
05:36:07,680 --> 05:36:08,160
Thanks.

3855
05:36:08,960 --> 05:36:15,480
Mr. Dono, Mr. Ramsey, for continuing to work with us on this case since the last

3856
05:36:15,480 --> 05:36:22,960
hearing before the commission. I think in my last presentation we really went through the

3857
05:36:22,960 --> 05:36:31,200
in detail the give and take the push and the pull that went through creating the layout that's

3858
05:36:31,200 --> 05:36:37,280
before you. And we went through several different iterations of different uses they are shown here

3859
05:36:37,280 --> 05:36:43,300
on the slide just as a refresher, but with a lot of input from transportation and planning from

3860
05:36:43,300 --> 05:36:51,020
neighbors, we've arrived at what the layout that's before you. As a result of this

3861
05:36:51,020 --> 05:36:57,100
given take, we've seen a reduction, a significant reduction in the density that

3862
05:36:57,100 --> 05:36:58,900
was originally proposed.

3863
05:37:02,070 --> 05:37:06,430
As Mr. Donhoe mentioned, we have taken the

3864
05:37:06,430 --> 05:37:13,230
that will provide the sufficient space for parking on both sides of the street and the

3865
05:37:13,230 --> 05:37:14,670
20 feet clear.

3866
05:37:17,920 --> 05:37:23,660
As I mentioned last month, one of the things that we were cognizant of from

3867
05:37:23,660 --> 05:37:31,520
the beginning and throughout the process of going through the iterations was thinking about

3868
05:37:31,520 --> 05:37:43,360
our neighbors to the east. And we always planned for the required 50 foot buffer. Even as we

3869
05:37:44,480 --> 05:37:46,820
It was promised to be a natural buffer.

3870
05:37:47,000 --> 05:37:51,220
It was promised that we would not do any disturbance within it.

3871
05:37:51,780 --> 05:37:54,200
And then we received a final request.

3872
05:37:55,760 --> 05:37:58,540
The way we had originally oriented the townhouses,

3873
05:37:59,400 --> 05:38:03,020
created or oriented the backyards towards them.

3874
05:38:03,500 --> 05:38:06,960
And the residents came and spoke to the county.

3875
05:38:06,980 --> 05:38:08,900
The county staff came to us and said,

3876
05:38:08,900 --> 05:38:17,580
Could you look at changing the orientation of the buildings so that they weren't looking at the back of the buildings we said sure we can do that

3877
05:38:18,100 --> 05:38:21,360
We did that even if it meant losing density as

3878
05:38:24,920 --> 05:38:26,300
We have discussed

3879
05:38:26,920 --> 05:38:32,700
Last month an important part of this case is a road connection over to Oxbridge

3880
05:38:33,480 --> 05:38:34,120
We

3881
05:38:34,120 --> 05:38:39,200
The thoroughfare plan originally showed in alignment on the left side of the slide

3882
05:38:39,200 --> 05:38:47,220
We appreciate the work that the Transportation Department did with us in understanding the

3883
05:38:47,220 --> 05:38:52,280
concern to the neighbors and working with us on a different type of alignment that will slow

3884
05:38:52,280 --> 05:39:01,140
down any vehicles that might head towards the existing neighborhood, but really coming up with

3885
05:39:01,140 --> 05:39:07,160
a design that channels anybody using that road up the whole street and not to that subdivision.

3886
05:39:08,640 --> 05:39:13,040
There may be folks here who disagree with me, but I would submit to the Commission.

3887
05:39:13,940 --> 05:39:19,120
We think this connection, the salignment, will ultimately benefit the current residents

3888
05:39:19,120 --> 05:39:24,300
in the subdivision, because it will give them the opportunity to access the light at

3889
05:39:24,300 --> 05:39:24,840
Oxbridge.

3890
05:39:25,620 --> 05:39:30,160
It will no longer have to make a left, an unprotected left on the whole street.

3891
05:39:33,550 --> 05:39:44,030
Even though the county wanted this connection to Paulette, the applicant heard what the residents were saying about the concerns they had.

3892
05:39:44,710 --> 05:39:51,390
While state law doesn't allow us to eliminate it, there are things we can do to protect and address their concerns.

3893
05:39:52,490 --> 05:39:57,390
One of those things that we did was to prohibit construction access to this road.

3894
05:39:57,390 --> 05:40:05,610
That way they were assured any of the vehicles that are being used in the creation of this community would not be using the roads in their community.

3895
05:40:06,650 --> 05:40:09,610
We will put up a temporary barricade and we will have a sign.

3896
05:40:13,120 --> 05:40:24,120
Another aspect of conversation from last month's discussion was what exactly is the buffer along a whole street?

3897
05:40:24,820 --> 05:40:31,620
And it's hard to tell what the buffer is really going to look like when we're looking at a 2D piece of paper.

3898
05:40:32,360 --> 05:40:35,640
It looks flat and we think it's going to be flat.

3899
05:40:37,140 --> 05:40:42,320
And so one of the things that we said to ourselves to better inform the community, to better inform you,

3900
05:40:42,880 --> 05:40:49,500
is to create this cross section that shows how we are going to use the topography within this 50 feet

3901
05:40:49,500 --> 05:40:52,620
to help shield our residents fromholstery.

3902
05:40:53,880 --> 05:40:56,340
It will be planted, as Mr. Dhanahu indicated,

3903
05:40:57,320 --> 05:40:58,800
and then that natural topography

3904
05:40:58,800 --> 05:41:01,500
will be used to create that burn.

3905
05:41:02,640 --> 05:41:04,700
There is no additional dirt provided.

3906
05:41:05,340 --> 05:41:08,840
It's just the way the dirt, the earth, lies there today.

3907
05:41:12,620 --> 05:41:15,960
Another conversation topic from last month was,

3908
05:41:16,660 --> 05:41:19,440
what are we doing to help the future residents

3909
05:41:19,440 --> 05:41:21,980
who are going to be living close to the substation?

3910
05:41:23,320 --> 05:41:28,560
I'd love to be able to go to Dominion and say, hey, can you put up a screening fence?

3911
05:41:29,960 --> 05:41:32,760
Unfortunately I can't.

3912
05:41:32,860 --> 05:41:36,740
Our preference would be we just plant it.

3913
05:41:37,100 --> 05:41:41,360
Put a lot of plants in there and make sure it will never be seen.

3914
05:41:42,880 --> 05:41:46,040
But again we're back to that tug and pull and competing interest.

3915
05:41:46,800 --> 05:41:49,160
And we had to balance competing interest.

3916
05:41:49,160 --> 05:41:56,780
two things on the slide I'd like to point out to you. First, there is an existing trunk line.

3917
05:41:58,080 --> 05:42:05,120
That DPU operates for water service. DPU doesn't let us put big trees in there. We can probably put some shrubs.

3918
05:42:06,300 --> 05:42:10,180
But okay, we knew it was there. We could plan around it. No problem.

3919
05:42:12,400 --> 05:42:18,820
During our review process, DPU comes to us and says, you don't need it for your commute.

3920
05:42:19,380 --> 05:42:25,760
but we need it for Chesterfield. We need more easements space for a second

3921
05:42:25,760 --> 05:42:31,860
trunk line that in the future we want to run through here. We need you to give us

3922
05:42:31,860 --> 05:42:38,500
an easement. Next to the existing one. I don't really have a choice to be

3923
05:42:38,500 --> 05:42:46,580
awesome. I gotta do it. And I gotta put it there. I'd love to say to DP you, go

3924
05:42:46,580 --> 05:42:53,820
Talk to Dominion. Why don't you run the easement through the substation? It's underground? Why not?

3925
05:42:55,380 --> 05:43:00,280
Well, I think I have that choice. So we have to balance the competition.

3926
05:43:02,000 --> 05:43:03,840
We're going to give the county what it wants.

3927
05:43:04,340 --> 05:43:07,740
We're going to give the residents what we think we need, which is more plantings.

3928
05:43:08,340 --> 05:43:12,180
We're doing the best we can with the facts that we have.

3929
05:43:13,620 --> 05:43:19,660
Another topic of conversation that came up with the last meeting was, hey, you've got

3930
05:43:19,660 --> 05:43:24,620
a dog park and a melody space within the transmission line easement.

3931
05:43:26,020 --> 05:43:28,680
What happens if the minion doesn't approve it?

3932
05:43:30,800 --> 05:43:39,360
We went and looked just to the north, rockwood park, county's park, if you've been there,

3933
05:43:39,360 --> 05:43:47,540
I think you know what improvements are within these parking lots, dog parks, other things.

3934
05:43:48,120 --> 05:43:57,180
In fact, it was during our review process that staff came to us and said, hey, we put a dog park in the transmission line.

3935
05:43:57,860 --> 05:44:05,300
Why don't you look at doing something similar so that we can add to the amenities and find a way to activate this space that would otherwise be used?

3936
05:44:05,300 --> 05:44:11,040
We said, sure. It's a great idea. We can copy what you did. We'll use the same materials,

3937
05:44:11,240 --> 05:44:17,500
the millions approved at once though, prove it again. We work with Dominion day in and day out.

3938
05:44:17,860 --> 05:44:22,960
We know exactly what they will approve and what they want to prove. And we are comfortable

3939
05:44:22,960 --> 05:44:32,240
that they will approve this. We know they will. If, for some reason, it doesn't get approved,

3940
05:44:32,240 --> 05:44:33,480
That's our risk.

3941
05:44:34,840 --> 05:44:35,900
We still got to move it somewhere.

3942
05:44:36,560 --> 05:44:38,060
Still got to provide it.

3943
05:44:38,080 --> 05:44:39,100
Propheor's obligated.

3944
05:44:48,640 --> 05:44:50,780
Other improvements I want to remind you about.

3945
05:44:51,560 --> 05:44:53,980
We do have sidewalks on both sides of the street.

3946
05:44:55,060 --> 05:44:59,980
We plan on providing the street trees that are required on the outside of those side.

3947
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:01,040
At walks,

3948
05:45:03,520 --> 05:45:10,400
we will be improving or actually limiting the use of the existing meeting cut on

3949
05:45:10,400 --> 05:45:15,620
whole street where our entrance comes out the whole. Transportation department doesn't want us

3950
05:45:15,620 --> 05:45:22,660
providing a left out onto a whole. We will be closing that option and you will not be able to

3951
05:45:22,660 --> 05:45:28,400
make that left out. Again, from the transportation department goal, they want those vehicles

3952
05:45:28,400 --> 05:45:34,120
funneling over to Oxbridge where they have a controlled safe left movement onto hull using

3953
05:45:34,120 --> 05:45:34,800
that light.

3954
05:45:37,070 --> 05:45:41,010
As I explained at the last meeting and I think I've done touched on a little bit

3955
05:45:41,010 --> 05:45:48,030
here. This case before you is a balance of many, many competing interests that you see in these

3956
05:45:48,030 --> 05:45:56,090
times of infill developments. We are implementing the vision within the comprehensive plan.

3957
05:45:56,090 --> 05:46:01,290
we aren't doing it perfectly. Since the comprehensive plan was adopted we've

3958
05:46:01,290 --> 05:46:06,630
changed the way we work, the need for office spaces and there anymore, but we're

3959
05:46:06,630 --> 05:46:10,990
still finding a way to provide the other types of infrastructure improvements

3960
05:46:10,990 --> 05:46:18,310
connectivity quality that the county's looking for. Again I think this case is a

3961
05:46:18,310 --> 05:46:24,390
great example of an applicant listening to many different voices. We can't do

3962
05:46:24,390 --> 05:46:30,490
exactly what everybody wants, but we've balanced it in a way that addresses the concerns

3963
05:46:30,490 --> 05:46:33,730
that have been raised from multiple angles.

3964
05:46:35,030 --> 05:46:41,610
With that, I would ask that the Commission recommend approval subject to the Prophet

3965
05:46:41,610 --> 05:46:47,130
Conditions set out in your staff report, be happy to answer any questions that the Commission

3966
05:46:47,130 --> 05:46:47,870
may have.

3967
05:46:48,610 --> 05:46:49,510
Thank you, Mr. Geiger.

3968
05:46:50,210 --> 05:46:52,270
Do you commissioners have any questions for the applicant?

3969
05:46:52,270 --> 05:46:53,170
I

3970
05:46:58,740 --> 05:47:06,960
will now open the public hearing and first ask Commissioner Hilton since this is in the

3971
05:47:06,960 --> 05:47:14,800
Dale District to address any concerns that will receive the email on like portal or phone.

3972
05:47:15,400 --> 05:47:23,000
I got a one or two comments there on the portal, but I think those folks are here.

3973
05:47:23,000 --> 05:47:31,860
So if I hear a see them present, then I'll just let them speak for what they put into the portal.

3974
05:47:32,980 --> 05:47:33,780
Thank you, Commissioner Hill.

3975
05:47:34,460 --> 05:47:43,120
Is there anyone present who would like to speak in either support or opposition of case 22SN 0147 in the Dale District?

3976
05:47:43,220 --> 05:47:45,000
Rockwood Grove, please come forward.

3977
05:48:00,110 --> 05:48:03,030
And when you get to the podium, please just start by stating your name.

3978
05:48:03,130 --> 05:48:03,410
Thank you.

3979
05:48:03,410 --> 05:48:20,770
Hi. Good evening, sir. My name is Jamie Carson. I'm a resident of Fallen Creek Forms. And I have a few things to propose. Number one, I think y'all should consider the traffic and the lack of sufficient infrastructure along that section of road on whole street.

3980
05:48:22,390 --> 05:48:31,710
I shouldn't have to be the voice of reason, but somehow I think I can't have to be right now. You cannot continually build and build and build.

3981
05:48:31,710 --> 05:48:34,830
and expect it not to be a mess on Hall Street.

3982
05:48:35,090 --> 05:48:36,710
I mean, it's just, it's just terrible.

3983
05:48:37,510 --> 05:48:39,170
And to want to funnel the traffic

3984
05:48:39,170 --> 05:48:41,950
in the name of connectivity through my neighborhood,

3985
05:48:43,230 --> 05:48:45,650
I just didn't sign up for a thoroughfare

3986
05:48:45,650 --> 05:48:47,270
when I purchased my item.

3987
05:48:47,310 --> 05:48:50,730
I don't want you to allow the connection of Paul that we have.

3988
05:48:50,790 --> 05:48:54,490
We already have access to Oxford and Fordham Lights.

3989
05:48:55,030 --> 05:48:58,010
We don't have to use that lunches to light.

3990
05:48:58,010 --> 05:49:08,010
Oh, right. So I just don't think our neighborhood deserves this. We're a quiet established neighborhood.

3991
05:49:10,170 --> 05:49:21,410
I'm also against a 50 foot buffer. I think it needs to be long wider and I think it needs to have a fence. Once again, we are a quiet established neighborhood.

3992
05:49:21,410 --> 05:49:29,550
And I don't like all of the traffic and noise and crime that comes along with high density

3993
05:49:29,550 --> 05:49:30,530
development.

3994
05:49:31,350 --> 05:49:37,610
When I moved to this county, most everybody I've talked to, they moved to this county because

3995
05:49:37,610 --> 05:49:42,670
it was the county, they didn't want to live in a high density area, they didn't want

3996
05:49:42,670 --> 05:49:47,530
the population, they didn't want the crimes, they didn't want the traffic, and now it's turned

3997
05:49:47,530 --> 05:49:55,870
exactly what I moved away from and I don't know of anyone that's impressed or happy with the direction

3998
05:49:55,870 --> 05:50:02,570
the county has been taken with all this development. And I don't think that y'all really care and

3999
05:50:02,570 --> 05:50:08,030
I'm sure the Board of Supervisors probably won't care but I think that y'all need to realize that

4000
05:50:08,030 --> 05:50:14,970
the residents support this county with their taxes. Y'all raised my assess value every year on my home

4001
05:50:14,970 --> 05:50:20,210
And yet this year apartment communities got a break and a lower

4002
05:50:20,210 --> 05:50:25,060
assessment because they have to maintain properties and have

4003
05:50:25,060 --> 05:50:28,420
vacancies. Well if they have vacancies then why are we building an

4004
05:50:28,420 --> 05:50:32,900
apartment everywhere there's 10 trees? I have to maintain my

4005
05:50:32,900 --> 05:50:37,840
property. I don't get an assessment break and I don't think there's any

4006
05:50:37,840 --> 05:50:42,440
body in this county that would disagree with what I just said. I seriously

4007
05:50:42,440 --> 05:50:48,960
want you to deny this entire operation. I know something's gonna go there because y'all can't

4008
05:50:48,960 --> 05:50:54,280
leave a few trees there, you know, we can't have our deer and be happy. But there was just

4009
05:50:54,280 --> 05:51:00,960
an article in three days ago in the Richmond Times dispatch. And I'll quote, since 2020,

4010
05:51:01,280 --> 05:51:06,660
Chesterfield County has added more residents than any other county or city in Virginia.

4011
05:51:06,660 --> 05:51:10,710
I'm sorry, your time is up.

4012
05:51:11,270 --> 05:51:12,550
Let that sink in.

4013
05:51:13,530 --> 05:51:14,470
This is a counting.

4014
05:51:15,130 --> 05:51:16,610
Thank you for your time.

4015
05:51:16,750 --> 05:51:17,570
Thank you, Ms. Carson.

4016
05:51:24,420 --> 05:51:25,780
My name is Wikki Lee.

4017
05:51:26,380 --> 05:51:28,020
I said this is the last meeting.

4018
05:51:28,700 --> 05:51:33,300
I don't know why we have to have so many people and houses right there.

4019
05:51:33,640 --> 05:51:39,400
There's an average of two cars per household and that's going to have 500 cars right there.

4020
05:51:40,400 --> 05:51:42,160
You can see it right there.

4021
05:51:42,160 --> 05:51:45,340
And somebody's going to die trying to pull out.

4022
05:51:45,600 --> 05:51:48,620
There was just a bad accident just a couple weeks ago.

4023
05:51:48,900 --> 05:51:51,180
Got a flat tire in my waist car when she ran through the debris.

4024
05:51:53,200 --> 05:51:58,080
And just put half acre lots, residential, single family homes in here.

4025
05:51:58,500 --> 05:52:00,540
That's, I know something's going to go there.

4026
05:52:01,100 --> 05:52:05,100
And it needs to fit with what is already there.

4027
05:52:05,540 --> 05:52:06,220
And that's what's going on.

4028
05:52:06,220 --> 05:52:09,120
And I see all these other plans that we were seeing tonight.

4029
05:52:09,120 --> 05:52:15,500
and they look like they're putting single family homes in where there's already single family homes.

4030
05:52:16,300 --> 05:52:21,060
They're not trying to shove townhouses and office space into the space.

4031
05:52:21,560 --> 05:52:25,820
But you're trying to do it in my neighborhood and I don't know why. It's not needed.

4032
05:52:26,500 --> 05:52:27,760
And it's very dangerous.

4033
05:52:28,480 --> 05:52:29,600
Thank you.

4034
05:52:29,820 --> 05:52:30,680
Thank you, Mr. Lee.

4035
05:52:40,570 --> 05:52:41,650
Good evening. I'm Jerry Turner.

4036
05:52:41,650 --> 05:52:52,310
I'll start our list, talk about the studies that VDOT does, that's fully the study on

4037
05:52:52,310 --> 05:52:53,270
on lunch after.

4038
05:52:54,470 --> 05:52:58,990
And they did come out and put a counter, count the cars, they put it a quarter mile back

4039
05:52:58,990 --> 05:52:59,710
up the road.

4040
05:53:00,410 --> 05:53:06,290
It didn't count the 3,400 cars that go to the daycare center in the morning or all the cars

4041
05:53:06,290 --> 05:53:11,630
that go into the office complex, all the 3,400 cars come in the afternoon, the

4042
05:53:11,630 --> 05:53:18,550
going to pick up the kids from the daycare. So I put very little faith in the studies

4043
05:53:19,330 --> 05:53:22,510
or so-called studies that Vida does.

4044
05:53:26,140 --> 05:53:29,920
I guess the big thing is, like you said, something

4045
05:53:29,920 --> 05:53:35,100
is going to go there. We just got to hope this for the best for the county.

4046
05:53:43,660 --> 05:53:44,260
I started to

4047
05:53:44,260 --> 05:53:49,400
put sidewalks in because the trucks tore them up. So he didn't want to build any. Well now

4048
05:53:49,400 --> 05:53:53,620
I understand he's going to put sidewalks in there. Maybe they'll be a little bit of sidewalks.

4049
05:53:54,860 --> 05:54:00,020
Hopefully they'll the sidewalks will be better than this construction. So

4050
05:54:00,020 --> 05:54:06,760
bottom line is this this really doesn't fit this area but you're going to put something there.

4051
05:54:07,120 --> 05:54:13,520
It's just I'm hoping you can't limit it to which I'll do allow go in there. Thank you.

4052
05:54:20,570 --> 05:54:33,790
Good evening, commissioners. I'm Caroline Emmons and I would like to reiterate some of the points that my neighbors made. And also I believe you all are in receipt of a letter that a number of neighbors and falling Creek farms prepared. So just to hit on a couple of those points.

4053
05:54:34,250 --> 05:54:46,450
I am disappointed, frankly, that the applicant has not addressed some of those concerns which seem reasonable to me and I'd like to reiterate as others have said this project will basically shoehorn into a small space on top of long established neighborhoods.

4054
05:54:46,450 --> 05:54:48,170
a different kind of development.

4055
05:54:48,330 --> 05:54:52,690
I'm not anti-housing and I recognize that there's a need for that, but it should be done as the

4056
05:54:52,690 --> 05:54:54,190
applicant said improper balance.

4057
05:54:54,730 --> 05:54:57,330
So I'd just like to reiterate a couple of the points that were made in that letter.

4058
05:54:57,730 --> 05:55:03,290
We would like to request a 75 foot buffer between falling creeks farms and the Rockwood Grove

4059
05:55:03,290 --> 05:55:03,950
development.

4060
05:55:04,630 --> 05:55:07,570
And to borrow his words, hey, can we get a screening fence?

4061
05:55:07,650 --> 05:55:08,470
Thank you for that.

4062
05:55:08,470 --> 05:55:12,470
My regards to Dominion, we would like to see a screening fence between falling creek

4063
05:55:12,470 --> 05:55:14,310
farms and the Rockwood Grove development.

4064
05:55:14,310 --> 05:55:19,490
And we also, you know, the only amenity that we have seen from the Rockwood special focus

4065
05:55:19,490 --> 05:55:22,670
area plan is the bike and walking path.

4066
05:55:23,270 --> 05:55:28,950
We had seen that plan and veiled with some fanfare and so far there was one amenity that

4067
05:55:28,950 --> 05:55:33,790
I think we were excited about to get to Rockwood park more easily and to have that rock that

4068
05:55:33,790 --> 05:55:36,250
rock would groove, walking and bike trail.

4069
05:55:36,470 --> 05:55:40,570
And I don't understand why the applicant is not being required to complete that.

4070
05:55:40,570 --> 05:55:44,690
We also understand, and you all would know this better than I, that they are not an appropriate

4071
05:55:44,690 --> 05:55:49,550
number of visitor parking spaces in this proposal. I ask you to look at that and to see if

4072
05:55:49,550 --> 05:55:53,770
there is a problem there to correct it because we know that those visitors will be spilling into our

4073
05:55:53,770 --> 05:55:58,410
neighborhood if there's an adequate parking and we ask you to use your expertise to double check on that.

4074
05:55:58,790 --> 05:56:03,110
And then finally, we'd like to note that the issue of connectivity has been brought up several times.

4075
05:56:03,490 --> 05:56:07,710
There is an existing connectivity road on the north side of whole street. It's Amberdale Road

4076
05:56:07,710 --> 05:56:09,590
And it already exists.

4077
05:56:09,830 --> 05:56:12,090
It would address some of the problems that have been raised

4078
05:56:12,090 --> 05:56:14,310
in regard to moving traffic all of the whole street.

4079
05:56:14,610 --> 05:56:16,630
We don't think that traffic should be moved into a neighborhood.

4080
05:56:17,110 --> 05:56:18,530
We think that Amber Dale is there.

4081
05:56:18,750 --> 05:56:21,550
Apparently that may have been an original intention for that road.

4082
05:56:21,790 --> 05:56:23,570
And we hope that you'll take a closer look at that.

4083
05:56:23,870 --> 05:56:25,850
We think these are reasonable and modest requests.

4084
05:56:26,290 --> 05:56:27,950
I hope that you will defer this proposal

4085
05:56:27,950 --> 05:56:29,190
until they can be addressed.

4086
05:56:29,350 --> 05:56:30,370
Thank you very much.

4087
05:56:31,090 --> 05:56:31,650
Thank you.

4088
05:56:38,490 --> 05:56:39,750
Well, well, thank you for hearing me.

4089
05:56:39,750 --> 05:56:40,950
I'm David Madison.

4090
05:56:40,950 --> 05:56:46,470
I live on Sharingham Road, which is, we'll be right next to the development,

4091
05:56:48,650 --> 05:56:50,670
and I'm spoke

4092
05:56:50,670 --> 05:56:56,630
before, I'm concerned about the 50-foot buffer, I would like the 75-foot buffer at least.

4093
05:56:57,510 --> 05:57:02,590
We moved there because of the woods behind our house, the wildlife behind our house, and

4094
05:57:02,590 --> 05:57:04,910
it also buffers the noise from the whole street.

4095
05:57:05,710 --> 05:57:13,150
The other thing that I want to request is that the applicant hiring arborist to make sure

4096
05:57:13,150 --> 05:57:20,330
that the trees are not destroyed, when the construction vehicles come in, and even with

4097
05:57:20,330 --> 05:57:27,010
a 75-foot buffer, the tree canopy, the tree roots, goes as far as the canopy, and with

4098
05:57:27,010 --> 05:57:33,530
the construction vehicles, or if they dump gravel or anything within that canopy, that will

4099
05:57:33,530 --> 05:57:41,930
the tree. Now, it costs 10 times more to knock a tree down after development than before development.

4100
05:57:42,930 --> 05:57:46,830
So if they're going to run over the roots and destroy the trees, they should just go ahead and knock all

4101
05:57:46,830 --> 05:57:54,730
the trees down and plant new native trees that are healthy. Otherwise, hire an arborist to make sure

4102
05:57:54,730 --> 05:57:59,770
that those trees and the tree roots are not damaged. That's it. Thank you.

4103
05:58:10,100 --> 05:58:11,600
Hi, I'm Lily Patison,

4104
05:58:11,600 --> 05:58:18,300
And his daughter, we live right up next to where this is all happening.

4105
05:58:19,420 --> 05:58:25,980
This is practically in our backyard, and I'm mostly here to reiterate some of what everybody

4106
05:58:25,980 --> 05:58:32,980
else has said, second and third, what they have said, and to bring some of my concerns.

4107
05:58:33,820 --> 05:58:41,020
I'm not excited to have a construction crew in my backyard for, I believe it was quoted seven

4108
05:58:41,020 --> 05:58:47,100
years that it would take to make this entire thing. If that's changed since then, I apologize,

4109
05:58:47,720 --> 05:58:55,540
but yeah, I'm not excited for that to be the next seven years of my life. I love my backyard,

4110
05:58:55,660 --> 05:59:02,940
I love the nature, I love being able to get away from how ugly the rest of Chesterfield is

4111
05:59:02,940 --> 05:59:09,480
because it is not nice to look at. I drive around and I feel depressed all day and I come home

4112
05:59:09,480 --> 05:59:14,380
and I sit in my backyard and feel a little bit better because I can look at some pretty trees.

4113
05:59:15,900 --> 05:59:22,560
I am also not excited about the loss of habitat for the sake of pest control.

4114
05:59:24,800 --> 05:59:30,960
Reducing habitat that kills off species like snakes and bats and other types of creatures

4115
05:59:31,840 --> 05:59:39,020
it will have impacts on the amount of mice, mosquitoes and other sorts of pests that spread

4116
05:59:39,020 --> 05:59:46,360
disease the amount that there will be and it will be an issue. I'm worried about the noise.

4117
05:59:46,640 --> 05:59:53,600
I'm worried about the traffic with Hall Street being so high density, high traffic, constant crashes

4118
05:59:53,600 --> 05:59:59,740
all the time. I'm worried about the safety. I'm worried about having people.

4119
06:00:00,000 --> 06:00:16,400
Practically, in my backyard all day, I'm worried about myself and my neighbors who have pets and cats and things that like to run around outside that might be killed by these construction crew people.

4120
06:00:18,080 --> 06:00:24,400
And I think I might have come to the end of my list for now, but there's a lot. Thank you.

4121
06:00:24,400 --> 06:00:25,660
Thank you, Mr. Pethis.

4122
06:00:32,900 --> 06:00:34,140
My name is Mike Foley.

4123
06:00:34,140 --> 06:00:38,220
I live at 41, 21, 21, and I'm Manchester Drive and the Dale District.

4124
06:00:38,940 --> 06:00:42,480
My wife's a teacher of over 27 years at Manchester Middle School.

4125
06:00:43,200 --> 06:00:47,380
We moved up here permanently in 1997 because we were in Virginia Beach.

4126
06:00:47,500 --> 06:00:51,700
In Virginia Beach was turning into Fairfax without the amenities of the culture.

4127
06:00:52,440 --> 06:00:58,160
So we moved up the Chesterfield permanently in 97 after living here two years from 1989 to 1985.

4128
06:00:58,740 --> 06:01:04,420
The biggest concern I have, and I know the project is probably going to be approved as is,

4129
06:01:04,980 --> 06:01:12,020
is that this is a dangerous precedent that will set a theme for the county where existing

4130
06:01:12,020 --> 06:01:17,940
old established neighborhoods are going to have shoehorned into their areas, townhomes and apartments.

4131
06:01:18,580 --> 06:01:22,840
I have nothing against townhomes apartments where they belong, say like in Charter County,

4132
06:01:22,840 --> 06:01:28,880
where there's empty space, where there's no contested zoning, no concerns from the residents

4133
06:01:29,700 --> 06:01:34,560
because that is a perfect fit. Ideally, this will be single family homes, there's some

4134
06:01:34,560 --> 06:01:38,920
of the attach homes. I don't think that's going to happen. But in a sense, I think you're destroying

4135
06:01:38,920 --> 06:01:44,340
the essence of the communities of May Fair and falling creek and Oxford Road by putting this

4136
06:01:44,340 --> 06:01:49,180
in. I foresee that our property values going down because the reason we bought our house and we

4137
06:01:49,180 --> 06:01:56,620
in this area is it's lack of density. It's quiet. Our road was not an autobahn. There were not a lot

4138
06:01:56,620 --> 06:02:01,960
of people walking through our neighborhood. It was almost like living in a park. And now that we have

4139
06:02:01,960 --> 06:02:06,440
this town home development, and it is a higher end development. Don't let anybody fool you that

4140
06:02:06,440 --> 06:02:12,240
it is as low rent, there's such an aid or low income. In fact, it's not really affordable housing at all.

4141
06:02:12,920 --> 06:02:16,900
But I feel this is going to destroy the essence of our community. We won't see it tomorrow.

4142
06:02:16,900 --> 06:02:21,040
But in 10 or 20 years, this will look like the areas of just field that have been

4143
06:02:21,040 --> 06:02:24,900
abandoned for more quieter and more secluded living.

4144
06:02:25,480 --> 06:02:27,420
I foresee my property value is going down.

4145
06:02:27,720 --> 06:02:31,060
I perceive people who want to move into our area decline.

4146
06:02:31,940 --> 06:02:34,440
Our houses don't stay for sale for a long time.

4147
06:02:34,480 --> 06:02:36,980
My house across the street for me sold in two days.

4148
06:02:38,400 --> 06:02:40,960
The villagers came to my house and came to my house and came to my house and

4149
06:02:40,960 --> 06:02:42,860
came to ask, do we want to sell?

4150
06:02:42,860 --> 06:02:49,380
And it's not junk homes people, it's people looking for homes in our community because ours is a desirable community.

4151
06:02:49,980 --> 06:02:54,340
Since this attraction is going to take six to seven years, this will not be readily apparent.

4152
06:02:55,180 --> 06:02:59,480
However, in the long run, I will see this not be a depressed community,

4153
06:03:00,080 --> 06:03:04,540
but most of the people either die in their homes because their first or second generation,

4154
06:03:05,320 --> 06:03:08,080
and the people generally will eventually move out and move away,

4155
06:03:08,080 --> 06:03:14,780
possibly taking their income and their taxable property out of the county. So I hope you guys

4156
06:03:14,780 --> 06:03:18,980
make the right decision. I hope this isn't a dangerous present for the rest of the county,

4157
06:03:19,060 --> 06:03:25,880
as you shoehorn and keyhole small areas into these developments that just, this doesn't make sense.

4158
06:03:26,620 --> 06:03:32,020
I do approve of the amendments and the changes that have been made. I appreciate communication

4159
06:03:32,020 --> 06:03:38,100
between us and the developer. I hope you all read the very long, professional document

4160
06:03:38,100 --> 06:03:42,480
that was sent to you by the concerned members of community that had helped from

4161
06:03:42,480 --> 06:03:47,960
former members of the planning board and the county. And seriously, consider the implications

4162
06:03:47,960 --> 06:03:51,720
and recommendations of that before you make a rash decision for something that will be very

4163
06:03:51,720 --> 06:03:58,040
permanent and very affected, effective to the right time. Thank you very much, Miss Mason. Thank

4164
06:03:58,040 --> 06:04:01,800
you for the board. I hope you make a careful close consideration of this

4165
06:04:01,800 --> 06:04:04,360
development. Thank you, Mr. Foley.

4166
06:04:12,670 --> 06:04:15,450
My name is Tommy Hamilton and I live in Follin Creek

4167
06:04:15,450 --> 06:04:21,110
Farms, but there was just one point I didn't hear brought up. Which is why I stood up

4168
06:04:21,110 --> 06:04:27,630
the stand even though this is not easy for me to do. Basically, there's a whole community that's

4169
06:04:27,630 --> 06:04:34,290
not represented on this map. You're not seeing it. It's May fair states. It goes very deep. It

4170
06:04:34,290 --> 06:04:41,170
one's a long courthouse road. And there's no connection from that community to courthouse road,

4171
06:04:41,410 --> 06:04:50,230
the one exit. Well, there's one main exit, which is Oxbridge Road. The other exit would come

4172
06:04:50,230 --> 06:04:56,650
through falling quick farms, which is kind of a to the side. But the main exit is Oxbridge Road.

4173
06:04:57,290 --> 06:05:03,790
So adding to that, I just wish you could see the whole how deep that goes and how much traffic

4174
06:05:03,790 --> 06:05:08,990
comes out of there and disappointed there's no residents from that neighborhood here because I think

4175
06:05:08,990 --> 06:05:15,550
it's going to affect them even more than us in some ways. But I just wanted to note that road

4176
06:05:17,490 --> 06:05:22,950
is leads to a very deep community and you're not seen it on the map here that's displayed to you.

4177
06:05:23,310 --> 06:05:28,790
So I just wish you could look into that further. So that is it. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Hamilton.

4178
06:05:35,890 --> 06:05:41,890
Good evening, Chairman. Members, I have a couple of pictures I'd like to share and unfortunately

4179
06:05:41,890 --> 06:05:44,670
I didn't put them on a disc. May I?

4180
06:05:46,900 --> 06:05:52,520
Actually, we are prohibited from handouts coming up here, but may you state your name for us?

4181
06:05:53,020 --> 06:05:54,840
Laura, thank you.

4182
06:05:54,840 --> 06:05:55,260
Thank you.

4183
06:05:57,460 --> 06:06:02,740
Because I want you pictures of Paul at which is the road they want connectivity to.

4184
06:06:04,570 --> 06:06:07,570
I realize that development needs to take place.

4185
06:06:07,570 --> 06:06:13,410
I live on sharing him, which means that I intersect with Paulette.

4186
06:06:14,010 --> 06:06:19,010
The developer has been generous enough to say, he will develop Paulette,

4187
06:06:19,310 --> 06:06:22,990
giving the appearance of an entrance to his property.

4188
06:06:24,730 --> 06:06:27,490
We don't need connectivity to fall in the creek.

4189
06:06:28,190 --> 06:06:35,770
I currently have the option going out the back to get to Fordham or Oxbridge.

4190
06:06:35,770 --> 06:06:40,650
These apartments will have the same opportunity to go out,

4191
06:06:40,970 --> 06:06:43,750
Oxbridge, instead of going on the hall street,

4192
06:06:43,910 --> 06:06:48,110
they can turn left connectivity to Lynchester or Fordham.

4193
06:06:48,590 --> 06:06:51,190
When the developer said that it is the law,

4194
06:06:51,870 --> 06:06:53,950
that you have to open call it.

4195
06:06:54,430 --> 06:06:56,970
I know that we talked about this in 1980.

4196
06:06:57,530 --> 06:06:59,310
They said, yes, we needed connectivity,

4197
06:07:00,050 --> 06:07:02,090
but this is 2024, gentlemen.

4198
06:07:02,090 --> 06:07:11,810
Falling Creek is an old, established neighborhood. We don't need an entrance to this complex.

4199
06:07:12,770 --> 06:07:17,890
Something will be built. I would have preferred single family homes.

4200
06:07:19,570 --> 06:07:22,870
That's between the developer and those of you sitting here.

4201
06:07:22,870 --> 06:07:31,970
What I don't want is the intrusion into an already developed neighborhood, a long standing.

4202
06:07:33,990 --> 06:07:40,870
Developing the road on Pollette sounds all well and good from the developer, but it adds no benefit to us.

4203
06:07:42,470 --> 06:07:43,870
Lastly, gentlemen, ladies,

4204
06:07:46,220 --> 06:07:54,220
a rather sensitive topic, but it's important to me because if you allow connectivity, you're allowing things into the neighborhood.

4205
06:07:55,280 --> 06:08:01,120
and this is sensitive and I do apologize. One of the things when I moved in to falling

4206
06:08:01,120 --> 06:08:09,960
creek, as a parent, I looked at the National Sexual Registry, which is open to all of us.

4207
06:08:10,720 --> 06:08:19,740
And we have our sex offenders in the neighborhood. I moved in knowing it. I ran the search

4208
06:08:19,740 --> 06:08:28,080
again recently. There are some motels, I won't name any names, but there are motels that

4209
06:08:28,080 --> 06:08:35,000
Jason to this. We have now in the last two months acquired a new offender. Not only is

4210
06:08:35,000 --> 06:08:40,380
he on the national sexual registry for battery sexual assault rape, but also for murder.

4211
06:08:42,580 --> 06:08:48,760
That concerns me. Yes, offenders need to live someplace and we have our share of motels right

4212
06:08:48,760 --> 06:08:51,500
here on that section of courthouse.

4213
06:08:52,520 --> 06:08:58,260
But you're giving connectivity, walkability, nicer, nicer.

4214
06:08:58,480 --> 06:08:59,560
Sorry, your time is up.

4215
06:09:00,060 --> 06:09:00,960
Thank you.

4216
06:09:00,980 --> 06:09:01,740
Miss Inc.

4217
06:09:12,910 --> 06:09:13,970
My name is Renee Alder,

4218
06:09:14,110 --> 06:09:16,730
and Mr. Turner asked me to speak, so I will.

4219
06:09:17,370 --> 06:09:19,410
Saw a couple of things in here.

4220
06:09:20,190 --> 06:09:22,050
I haven't looked at the case wholeheartedly,

4221
06:09:22,290 --> 06:09:24,230
like I normally do, because it's out of my district,

4222
06:09:24,230 --> 06:09:33,810
but they went private sidewalks, which puts the burden back on the HOA instead of V-Dive,

4223
06:09:34,570 --> 06:09:41,410
in summer is not known. They're not using the, or not, they're not putting in the shared use

4224
06:09:41,410 --> 06:09:50,430
path, which quite frankly, that would be a plus anywhere to be able to walk down by the creek.

4225
06:09:50,430 --> 06:09:59,450
And if I'm not mistaken, I think it was today I heard that the development on the other side is doing that along the creek on the other side of courthouse.

4226
06:09:59,470 --> 06:10:01,610
I forget the name of the road for the development.

4227
06:10:03,050 --> 06:10:10,950
But one of the things that concerns me the most is 16 foot wide townhouses.

4228
06:10:12,190 --> 06:10:34,670
Even in your staff report, it says it has not been properly addressed, I forget the exact language, but it has not been properly that it, I guess, is to how you're going to plant in front where they're going to be, or they're all going to be grouped together, it says 25% of the project.

4229
06:10:35,570 --> 06:10:42,370
Where are there 16 foot townhouses going to be and will they be just like a silent bro?

4230
06:10:43,370 --> 06:10:54,210
And one of the other things I'm really curious about that I haven't been able to find, there's a lot of acreage in that transmission easement.

4231
06:10:55,150 --> 06:11:04,570
And I was just kind of curious whether or not the density included that acreage that is obviously not buildable.

4232
06:11:05,790 --> 06:11:10,490
Maybe that's something that even in Zoma, if you've got something like that that's obvious

4233
06:11:10,490 --> 06:11:16,970
not buildable, you cannot include that in your acreage for your property, just a fight.

4234
06:11:18,090 --> 06:11:25,710
So, I would also think that maybe for the connectivity to a pilot, everybody's concerned

4235
06:11:25,710 --> 06:11:32,110
about traffic, make them put in some speed bumps before it hits a pilot, so they have to slow

4236
06:11:32,110 --> 06:11:36,510
down before they hit my next ride. Just a thought. Thank you.

4237
06:11:36,510 --> 06:11:37,150
Thank you, Miss Elder.

4238
06:11:42,770 --> 06:11:47,450
Mr. Chairman Greg Allen one more time. Okay. So I think there's

4239
06:11:47,450 --> 06:11:52,990
two potential legal issues here and one of implementation. The first is the confusion

4240
06:11:52,990 --> 06:11:57,930
over the spuffer along the whole street. So when it was going to be multifamily, that was

4241
06:11:57,930 --> 06:12:03,090
one standard. I think it was forgotten that when it changed over to townhouse, it became a

4242
06:12:03,090 --> 06:12:09,710
different standard. So that 50-foot buffer is required to be three times per meter landscape

4243
06:12:09,710 --> 06:12:18,430
B under our residential townhouse in single-family standards. Okay, on next to that road.

4244
06:12:19,290 --> 06:12:23,310
We have two times landscape C, it's not quite the same as three times landscape B. I don't know if

4245
06:12:23,310 --> 06:12:28,670
there's an exception being asked, but that's the rule that should be applied. It's also only putting

4246
06:12:28,670 --> 06:12:33,210
the landscaping in the first 25 feet. Well, you really can't even do 2 times C or 3 times

4247
06:12:33,210 --> 06:12:41,830
B and 25 feet. It needs to be the entire 50 feet to fit it in. But on another issue, in terms

4248
06:12:41,830 --> 06:12:58,650
of what your vision, Mr. Dr. Hilton is, these are 14 town homes that are backing up to

4249
06:12:58,650 --> 06:13:08,630
But if I look into other districts like Matoko with Greenwich Village and Midlothian with

4250
06:13:08,630 --> 06:13:19,110
Conny Park townhomes, those townhomes are basically double-fronted so that on the back side, when all that traffic is driving by,

4251
06:13:19,210 --> 06:13:20,670
they see something that's high quality.

4252
06:13:20,670 --> 06:13:26,950
Well, what you're going to see here is 14 low quality rear ends of town homes and right across

4253
06:13:26,950 --> 06:13:30,070
street, you have the high quality amperally. This is going to be a disconnect visually.

4254
06:13:30,570 --> 06:13:33,890
And I'm not sure that's what we want for Chesterville County, for that much traffic

4255
06:13:33,890 --> 06:13:37,790
going by and saying, man, what does it dump on that side versus what that side shows?

4256
06:13:38,730 --> 06:13:42,430
So, the other issue is about the bike path.

4257
06:13:43,410 --> 06:13:46,450
That amount of theory is not activated unless it goes in.

4258
06:13:46,450 --> 06:13:54,990
So I haven't seen a common area plan that provides the calculations for how much a minenti

4259
06:13:54,990 --> 06:13:59,050
error they actually have, but this is also a lot of your reductions.

4260
06:14:00,310 --> 06:14:06,270
On average, this is about 500 square feet less per lot than what the ordinance requires.

4261
06:14:06,930 --> 06:14:12,930
So this should be even a calculation for the lot of your reduction in the minenti area and so

4262
06:14:12,930 --> 06:14:14,590
forth is required for that.

4263
06:14:14,590 --> 06:14:20,510
The last thing, the implementation issue, when you put those treat trees within the remaining 20

4264
06:14:20,510 --> 06:14:25,810
feet from the sidewalk to the houses, what you're really talking about is you're going to have a lot

4265
06:14:25,810 --> 06:14:30,990
of roots that are going to be going into their front yards and if they have any irrigation or anything

4266
06:14:30,990 --> 06:14:36,130
else, it's just right on top of their homes. Those trees, as they get larger and larger, are going to

4267
06:14:36,130 --> 06:14:41,610
feel crowded up against those townhouses. And these are two story townhouses. The whole purpose

4268
06:14:41,610 --> 06:14:47,530
about getting those trees into the street median on the back of curve is to move them again,

4269
06:14:47,670 --> 06:14:52,450
10 feet further away with some root protection provided by the fact that you have the side

4270
06:14:52,450 --> 06:14:58,390
walk, which my last sentence here is if we're really talking about affordability, you get

4271
06:14:58,390 --> 06:14:59,790
this side walks into the right way.

4272
06:15:00,000 --> 06:15:04,560
Do you not need to be a part of the HOA's expense? Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Allen.

4273
06:15:05,440 --> 06:15:10,180
Is there anyone else present who would like to speak and support our opposition of this case?

4274
06:15:13,720 --> 06:15:14,300
Seeing none.

4275
06:15:15,080 --> 06:15:16,160
Who would want more?

4276
06:15:27,080 --> 06:15:28,120
How you all doing this evening?

4277
06:15:28,800 --> 06:15:30,540
My name is Jack Kinney.

4278
06:15:32,860 --> 06:15:37,600
I feel like the villages have come out with their shovels and pitchforks. After the Frankenstein monster

4279
06:15:37,600 --> 06:15:39,340
up to here and all those comments,

4280
06:15:41,580 --> 06:15:44,820
but traffic is going to be bad and I know this is not

4281
06:15:44,820 --> 06:15:45,800
the only issue.

4282
06:15:46,840 --> 06:15:51,060
Traffic is going to be bad eventually everywhere all the time, no matter what goes there.

4283
06:15:51,120 --> 06:15:54,600
I don't know how you're going to solve that problem unless you give out less driver's license.

4284
06:15:55,960 --> 06:15:57,740
I'm for this project.

4285
06:15:58,640 --> 06:16:04,600
I can't give you a lot of reasons why I'm for it except for the fact that something's

4286
06:16:04,600 --> 06:16:09,760
going to have to go there hopefully something that will benefit the county make it a better place

4287
06:16:09,760 --> 06:16:14,280
and I hope that what does go there will not disturb the existing neighborhoods and I'm sure

4288
06:16:14,280 --> 06:16:20,420
that's a real issue that they're concerned about. But just to cut cut it short and make it sweet,

4289
06:16:21,020 --> 06:16:27,920
I'm not opposed to this. I'd like to see it go in. I appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Kenny.

4290
06:16:30,260 --> 06:16:33,940
Anyone else present would like to speak? In this case,

4291
06:16:37,310 --> 06:16:42,070
we're seeing none. I will now close the public hearing and invite the applicant back up for a review.

4292
06:16:48,260 --> 06:16:49,140
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4293
06:16:57,120 --> 06:16:59,800
As you can see from the different layouts we provided you,

4294
06:17:02,040 --> 06:17:07,190
we did start with departments. They're gone. When we had departments, we were told,

4295
06:17:07,710 --> 06:17:12,530
we went to condos. We were told, condos, don't want condos.

4296
06:17:12,530 --> 06:17:20,950
do townhouses, then townhouses. Townhouses is what we can do and meet the needs of all the other inputs

4297
06:17:20,950 --> 06:17:22,450
that we have.

4298
06:17:25,410 --> 06:17:29,150
State law does require us to connect to Paulette. It's a secondary street except

4299
06:17:29,150 --> 06:17:29,910
and requirements.

4300
06:17:32,430 --> 06:17:37,550
Your transportation department asks us to improve Paulette. We will do that.

4301
06:17:38,790 --> 06:17:41,930
But that will also be with the protections that we talked about before.

4302
06:17:44,130 --> 06:17:45,250
We get a lot of requests for

4303
06:17:45,250 --> 06:17:53,010
bumps. As we know, V dot doesn't let us do it. Reason, this no-cloud's got to get through.

4304
06:17:53,530 --> 06:17:57,790
And when the snowplows ding up those speed bumps, V dot's got to come out repair.

4305
06:18:03,760 --> 06:18:04,380
We are providing

4306
06:18:06,660 --> 06:18:12,220
sidewalks. When Mr. Allen was a part of the staff, we brought him to concern from the industry

4307
06:18:12,220 --> 06:18:20,140
that V dot makes us put in the sidewalks first. Even if the house isn't there and then we tear him

4308
06:18:20,140 --> 06:18:26,420
we've got to put them in the second time. The proper language before you gives the applicant

4309
06:18:26,420 --> 06:18:32,860
flexibility. It's not a requirement, but if because of the requirements we need to move them

4310
06:18:32,860 --> 06:18:38,600
out of the right away we have the ability to do so. We don't have to come back before you. But

4311
06:18:38,600 --> 06:18:44,900
we can also put them in the public right away. It's not at zoning giving us the entitlements

4312
06:18:44,900 --> 06:18:51,560
we need to make the decisions based on final engineering. And the regulatory constraints that

4313
06:18:51,560 --> 06:18:52,180
we face.

4314
06:18:58,250 --> 06:19:04,390
We talked about last month that a county's request or the county's requirement

4315
06:19:04,390 --> 06:19:11,410
for a bike path, multi-use trail. There were some in the community who did not want it.

4316
06:19:11,710 --> 06:19:18,770
One person in attendance was here because of it. They didn't want the path to be bringing people

4317
06:19:18,770 --> 06:19:23,750
into their neighborhood because it wasn't going to go anywhere. It wasn't going to connect anything.

4318
06:19:23,750 --> 06:19:29,210
It's not going to connect the Rockwood anytime soon, but when the county has the ability

4319
06:19:29,210 --> 06:19:34,390
and the funding to create that system for the Rockwood area, the easements there come

4320
06:19:34,390 --> 06:19:35,930
on and put it in.

4321
06:19:36,230 --> 06:19:42,550
So as the residents do get the benefit of being able to use the path to get to Rockwood Park.

4322
06:19:45,170 --> 06:19:51,090
From the discussion, as you know, we are providing a parking on both sides of the street,

4323
06:19:51,090 --> 06:19:55,770
there is sufficient parking. In fact, we probably have more parking than we mean.

4324
06:19:59,700 --> 06:20:00,060
We talked

4325
06:20:00,060 --> 06:20:04,980
about last time concerns about whole street. We reached out to VDOT. One of the things we

4326
06:20:04,980 --> 06:20:09,760
heard was slow down the track. Could you help us slow down the traffic on whole? It's 55 miles

4327
06:20:09,760 --> 06:20:17,400
an hour. But on either side of us is 45. Can we get it down to 45? We tried. We wanted

4328
06:20:17,400 --> 06:20:20,520
to help them. We could,

4329
06:20:26,220 --> 06:20:30,200
as I showed you in the cross section to address Mr. Allen's concerns

4330
06:20:30,200 --> 06:20:34,980
about the architecture. If you're driving on a whole street, you're going to be looking

4331
06:20:34,980 --> 06:20:35,720
into a burn.

4332
06:20:39,030 --> 06:20:47,750
Also, why is it that they're going to be ugly? Why do we assume that?

4333
06:20:50,020 --> 06:20:53,540
One person may like, it's not always what another person likes.

4334
06:20:55,870 --> 06:20:57,090
We've got great development

4335
06:20:57,090 --> 06:21:03,910
in Chesterfield. We do quality work in Chesterfield. That's what this project will bring.

4336
06:21:05,410 --> 06:21:10,350
And, from our perspective, what's important is the residents who will be living a long

4337
06:21:10,350 --> 06:21:12,990
whole street, they are going to be protected from whole street.

4338
06:21:13,550 --> 06:21:18,550
We want to protect them from the noise, that's why we are going to use the topography.

4339
06:21:20,130 --> 06:21:24,230
We are going to plant the trees within 25 feet, within the whole 50 feet.

4340
06:21:26,460 --> 06:21:30,360
I may have to add more plants within the 50, and that's okay.

4341
06:21:34,070 --> 06:21:44,650
As we've planted trees within the back of the curve in the sidewalk, one of the downsides we have started to see is the tree route start pushing up the sidewalk.

4342
06:21:48,830 --> 06:21:52,810
So we have to kind of decide what's the best side to put it.

4343
06:21:53,010 --> 06:22:05,310
If we have to do a 32 foot wide road and then we have to do the sidewalk and give us the flexibility to put the trees on the other side of the sidewalk.

4344
06:22:05,990 --> 06:22:08,590
The roots are going to play no matter what.

4345
06:22:08,710 --> 06:22:14,910
We cannot put trees in and then we don't have roots, but from our perspective, it's better

4346
06:22:14,910 --> 06:22:15,690
on that side.

4347
06:22:17,760 --> 06:22:19,760
At the end, the appearance will still be the same.

4348
06:22:21,080 --> 06:22:26,280
Side walks on both sides, parking on both sides, trees on both sides of the road.

4349
06:22:36,930 --> 06:22:43,490
As you heard at the last meeting, this property owner has been here for a very long time.

4350
06:22:44,290 --> 06:22:45,790
The residents next door,

4351
06:22:47,910 --> 06:22:52,210
they came after he lived through their construction.

4352
06:22:55,250 --> 06:22:56,390
Neighbors haven't always been great.

4353
06:22:56,570 --> 06:23:00,110
He's had to pick up trash, but he's lived with him.

4354
06:23:00,850 --> 06:23:03,230
We hope these neighbors experience the same thing.

4355
06:23:04,270 --> 06:23:06,090
Quality residents from a quality development.

4356
06:23:11,620 --> 06:23:14,520
These are residents who may decide to start a family.

4357
06:23:15,360 --> 06:23:21,800
who may want a yard, they may be the buyers of the homes next door.

4358
06:23:22,480 --> 06:23:25,520
They may be the one to continue to reinvest in the community.

4359
06:23:27,630 --> 06:23:36,250
This is the opportunity to create new housing that people can move into and enjoy living

4360
06:23:36,250 --> 06:23:37,090
in gesture view.

4361
06:23:39,990 --> 06:23:44,180
With that, one other comment I'd like to share.

4362
06:23:44,180 --> 06:23:48,440
I think is staff and Commissioner Hilton can attest.

4363
06:23:50,280 --> 06:23:57,700
We've had a lot of input, community meetings where we had 100 people, 100 different people in attendance.

4364
06:23:59,600 --> 06:24:01,440
We had residents from other neighborhoods.

4365
06:24:03,540 --> 06:24:08,880
We worked hard. They're not here because we worked hard to address their concerns.

4366
06:24:10,860 --> 06:24:12,640
We can't do everything perfect.

4367
06:24:12,640 --> 06:24:15,940
But we think we've done everything we can to do it right.

4368
06:24:16,960 --> 06:24:20,080
We ask that you recommend approval to the board.

4369
06:24:21,200 --> 06:24:22,960
I'd like to answer any questions to the commission they have.

4370
06:24:25,630 --> 06:24:28,250
Your commissioners have any questions for the applicant?

4371
06:24:28,710 --> 06:24:29,050
I'm sure.

4372
06:24:30,090 --> 06:24:31,710
Mr. Kaga, I have one question.

4373
06:24:32,910 --> 06:24:42,650
Speaker came up and the suggestion was made that in the implementation of this case.

4374
06:24:43,950 --> 06:24:52,530
there could either be an act of illegality or a legal challenge to the implementation aspects

4375
06:24:52,530 --> 06:24:57,750
as it relates to landscaping, densities and so forth.

4376
06:24:58,070 --> 06:25:01,510
I'm just curious as the applicant's representative, which are responsible.

4377
06:25:02,190 --> 06:25:04,270
I have no concern with what's in the case.

4378
06:25:05,190 --> 06:25:07,650
As Mr. Allen noted, it's an exception.

4379
06:25:16,940 --> 06:25:17,500
So

4380
06:25:20,120 --> 06:25:25,820
this case is in the Dell District, so I will turn it over to Commissioner Hill to leave the discussion.

4381
06:25:30,630 --> 06:25:35,710
So I just want to thank all the residents who came out to the community meetings.

4382
06:25:38,770 --> 06:25:50,970
I know this case more from being a rental case into kind of what we have today, and I don't think any case is perfect.

4383
06:25:51,550 --> 06:25:58,310
I'll be the first to say that, I think as we grow as a county, we'll have to make some

4384
06:25:58,310 --> 06:26:00,970
modifications in terms of transportation,

4385
06:26:03,030 --> 06:26:10,930
schools and other aspects of our county, so we really

4386
06:26:10,930 --> 06:26:17,450
have to weigh the pros and cons as I like to say from Mr. Holland, and kind of where this

4387
06:26:17,450 --> 06:26:25,710
is right now. I think it's really good. We need to increase the number of residential roofs

4388
06:26:25,710 --> 06:26:33,390
that we have in order to attract the commercial space that we need in order to have the

4389
06:26:34,690 --> 06:26:46,980
plan development that we have envisioned for the Rockwood area. So with that subject to the

4390
06:26:46,980 --> 06:26:58,220
This is in the case, the staff report, I like to make a motion and we recommend approval to the board of civil advisers of this case.

4391
06:26:59,040 --> 06:27:08,080
So we have a recommendation, motion and recommend approval for case 22SN-0147 in the DAL District, Rockwood Grove.

4392
06:27:08,840 --> 06:27:12,000
Do we subject to the conditions in the staff report? Do we have a second?

4393
06:27:18,910 --> 06:27:19,670
Any further discussion?

4394
06:27:19,670 --> 06:27:19,930
Okay,

4395
06:27:24,340 --> 06:27:29,040
we have a motion from Commissioner Hilton and a second from Commissioner Sloan.

4396
06:27:29,100 --> 06:27:31,620
Madam Clerk will you please take a roll call.

4397
06:27:33,760 --> 06:27:34,660
Mr. Petrosky?

4398
06:27:35,060 --> 06:27:35,620
Aye.

4399
06:27:37,350 --> 06:27:38,290
Mr. Sloan?

4400
06:27:39,650 --> 06:27:41,350
Ms. Harden? Aye.

4401
06:27:42,550 --> 06:27:43,030
Dr. Hilton?

4402
06:27:43,610 --> 06:27:43,810
Aye.

4403
06:27:44,390 --> 06:27:45,170
Mr. Owens?

4404
06:27:45,370 --> 06:27:45,630
Aye.

4405
06:27:47,910 --> 06:27:52,750
Mr. Chair, that's four eyes and one day, a motion dash pass.

4406
06:27:53,370 --> 06:27:54,150
Thank you, Madam Clerk.

4407
06:27:54,150 --> 06:28:00,470
Our next case, case 2, 3, S, N, 0, 1, 2, 3, and the Mid-Lothian District Eastern Mid-Lothian

4408
06:28:00,470 --> 06:28:03,730
Kerry Town, Tobacco will be presented by Mr. Ellis.

4409
06:28:05,210 --> 06:28:06,130
Good evening, Mr. Chair.

4410
06:28:06,630 --> 06:28:08,770
Yeah, Harold, let's hear of them just a couple seconds.

4411
06:28:09,190 --> 06:28:10,150
Thank you.

4412
06:29:04,740 --> 06:29:06,320
Mr. Ellis from proceed.

4413
06:29:06,600 --> 06:29:07,980
Thank you.

4414
06:29:08,520 --> 06:29:10,000
Good evening, Mr. Chair.

4415
06:29:10,000 --> 06:29:11,840
Commissioners, Mr. Gillies.

4416
06:29:12,820 --> 06:29:16,220
Test 23SN 0123 in the mid-Lothian District.

4417
06:29:17,620 --> 06:29:22,060
Eastern mid-Lothian carried out tobacco is a request to permit a recreational substances

4418
06:29:22,060 --> 06:29:28,160
retail off-site use with traditionally used plant development to permit a use exception

4419
06:29:28,160 --> 06:29:33,620
for recreational substances retail on-site use and a community business district.

4420
06:29:35,080 --> 06:29:39,380
Property contains 1.24 acres in a zone of community business,

4421
06:29:39,800 --> 06:29:44,080
a joining properties are zone to community business to the north, east and west,

4422
06:29:44,820 --> 06:29:47,100
and properties to the south or zone general business.

4423
06:29:49,780 --> 06:29:52,300
Submit properties outlined why and the image is above,

4424
06:29:52,920 --> 06:29:56,520
the aerial image illustrates the sites developed with an existing commercial building

4425
06:29:56,520 --> 06:29:57,720
and associated parking.

4426
06:29:58,600 --> 06:29:59,980
Surrounding properties are developed with

4427
06:30:00,000 --> 06:30:05,720
The next of commercial uses, the land use plan designation for the property is community business.

4428
06:30:09,040 --> 06:30:10,940
This is the existing building on site.

4429
06:30:11,700 --> 06:30:18,040
A retail business then is carried down tobacco plans the operator retail recreational substances business on the property.

4430
06:30:18,880 --> 06:30:23,400
The applicant's proposal includes on and off site retail sales of recreational substances.

4431
06:30:24,040 --> 06:30:31,340
Recreational substances include the sale of tobacco, hemp, and credit and products, as well as accessory vaping and smoke and products.

4432
06:30:34,190 --> 06:30:36,790
This is the applicant's proposed conceptual plan.

4433
06:30:37,750 --> 06:30:45,930
The properties developed with a 24,000 square foot building, which you saw, which is previously occupied by a furniture store and then later an antique shop.

4434
06:30:47,110 --> 06:30:54,490
The applicant intends to renovate the building to operate a retail business that would sell recreational substances for on and off site use, as we discussed.

4435
06:30:54,490 --> 06:31:02,470
A portion of the building would be improved to accommodated indoor smoking lounge, which is considered an on-site recreational substance use.

4436
06:31:03,390 --> 06:31:24,470
Other proposed uses within the building would include a kitchen in retail office areas, a humid or sales area for cigars, warehouse area, as an accessory use, and an area for other permitted uses, which would be those permitted in the C3 district, but not to include a recreational substance business as a primary use in that area.

4437
06:31:24,470 --> 06:31:32,460
The zoning ordinance provides specific limitations for the retail recreational substances use.

4438
06:31:33,580 --> 06:31:38,160
Unless otherwise modified or conditioned by the Board of Supervisors at the time of

4439
06:31:38,160 --> 06:31:45,960
zoning approval, recreational substances both retail off-site and retail on-site are substitute

4440
06:31:46,860 --> 06:31:56,440
the following limitations and requirements. They must be located at least 2000 feet from the

4441
06:31:56,440 --> 06:31:58,500
at least 2,000 feet from the property line

4442
06:31:58,500 --> 06:32:00,620
of an existing recreational substance use.

4443
06:32:01,260 --> 06:32:05,360
And the hours of operation should be limited to 9 AM-8 PM Monday through Sunday.

4444
06:32:08,500 --> 06:32:11,580
And this case, the applicants requests would modify these special

4445
06:32:11,580 --> 06:32:13,780
limitations standards to permit the proposed

4446
06:32:13,780 --> 06:32:17,540
on and off site recreational substances business within 200 feet

4447
06:32:17,540 --> 06:32:20,720
of a public school, as well as within 200 feet

4448
06:32:20,720 --> 06:32:23,060
of an existing recreational substance business.

4449
06:32:23,880 --> 06:32:27,800
The properties located approximately 1,992 feet

4450
06:32:27,800 --> 06:32:36,560
From AM Davis Elementary School and approximately 350 feet from smokers vibe, which is at 8,07 view for court.

4451
06:32:37,400 --> 06:32:46,340
Additionally, the applicant is requesting to have hours of operation from 9 a.m. to midnight Monday through Sunday for the smoking lounge and humid or uses.

4452
06:32:47,380 --> 06:32:51,760
The off-site retail uses will be further restricted from 9 a.m. to 8 a.m. Monday through Sunday.

4453
06:32:54,150 --> 06:32:58,090
Should the Planning Commission recommend approval or the Board of Supervisors approve the request?

4454
06:32:58,090 --> 06:33:03,010
conditions have been developed to help address potential impacts of the use relating to

4455
06:33:03,010 --> 06:33:07,330
advertising, security, and sign improvements as detailed the book.

4456
06:33:10,680 --> 06:33:13,920
The applicants proposal fails to meet this special limitation of the recreational

4457
06:33:13,920 --> 06:33:16,820
ordinance as defined in the zoning ordinance.

4458
06:33:17,800 --> 06:33:23,780
The proposed location of this use would locate a recreational substances business near an existing

4459
06:33:23,780 --> 06:33:28,800
school and concentrate the use with other existing recreational substance businesses.

4460
06:33:29,740 --> 06:33:34,080
and the area and result in increased hours of operation from those allowed coordinates.

4461
06:33:34,940 --> 06:33:39,080
Staff finds that there are no likely conditions that would fully mitigate the impacts of this use

4462
06:33:39,080 --> 06:33:42,640
on area properties and accordingly recommends denial of the request.

4463
06:33:43,820 --> 06:33:46,840
A community meeting was scheduled for this request on April 22,

4464
06:33:47,420 --> 06:33:50,140
the meeting was canceled as no citizen signed up to attend.

4465
06:33:51,620 --> 06:33:54,680
On May 14, the applicant submitted a revised building layout plan

4466
06:33:54,680 --> 06:33:59,560
were off-site retail uses for the general sale of recreational substances was removed.

4467
06:34:00,720 --> 06:34:05,480
The proposals only off-site recreational substance use will be the Humidor and or cigar

4468
06:34:05,480 --> 06:34:06,200
stales.

4469
06:34:07,520 --> 06:34:11,280
Staffs prepared in a dendom were conditions 2 and 4 have been modified to address the applicants

4470
06:34:11,280 --> 06:34:16,460
for revised proposal and hours of operation for the revised uses.

4471
06:34:16,740 --> 06:34:18,380
We have to answer any questions.

4472
06:34:19,520 --> 06:34:22,640
Do any commissioners have any questions for staff?

4473
06:34:25,160 --> 06:34:27,300
Would the applicant like an opportunity to present?

4474
06:34:35,400 --> 06:34:37,060
Thank you Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission.

4475
06:34:37,900 --> 06:34:40,200
My name is Jeff Geiger here on behalf of the applicant.

4476
06:34:45,700 --> 06:34:53,920
We are here today because a small business entered into a lease.

4477
06:34:55,380 --> 06:35:00,600
Unfortunately, after that small business entered into the lease,

4478
06:35:02,000 --> 06:35:05,300
the amendment to the ordinance took place.

4479
06:35:08,460 --> 06:35:11,980
We looked at how we could exit the lease.

4480
06:35:13,520 --> 06:35:17,020
Unfortunately, there is not an opportunity to leave the lease.

4481
06:35:18,700 --> 06:35:24,180
So the small business is trying to see if the commission in the board

4482
06:35:25,880 --> 06:35:31,060
would allow a vision for an element of its business.

4483
06:35:36,500 --> 06:35:38,120
We understand

4484
06:35:40,320 --> 06:35:43,800
the traditional line of business for this small business of

4485
06:35:43,800 --> 06:35:44,340
Vapestore.

4486
06:35:44,940 --> 06:35:46,920
It's not appropriate in this location,

4487
06:35:49,150 --> 06:35:52,150
but another line of business for this small business

4488
06:35:52,150 --> 06:36:00,370
is providing the space for people who enjoy tobacco to smoke indoors.

4489
06:36:02,450 --> 06:36:08,510
There are people who do enjoy that as their recreation, their form of entertainment.

4490
06:36:09,810 --> 06:36:13,350
And they have fewer and fewer places to do it.

4491
06:36:15,090 --> 06:36:23,490
So what we have seen are businesses created to provide this space, where the smokers

4492
06:36:23,490 --> 06:36:28,950
who enjoy tobacco as part of their relaxation and their enjoyment can come and have indoor

4493
06:36:28,950 --> 06:36:36,790
space to socialize, talk about various products that they enjoy and to share smoke.

4494
06:36:38,740 --> 06:36:43,240
These smoking lounges are currently in our Richmond region.

4495
06:36:44,040 --> 06:36:45,620
There's one at Stony Point.

4496
06:36:46,520 --> 06:36:49,620
There's one at Short Pump and there's one at Northside.

4497
06:36:52,000 --> 06:36:57,040
The applicant would like to use a portion of this building for the same purpose.

4498
06:37:00,590 --> 06:37:06,130
This is the updated layout that shows how the applicant would like to use the space.

4499
06:37:08,880 --> 06:37:10,420
In pink, you can see the humidor.

4500
06:37:12,100 --> 06:37:14,860
This is not your typical humidor.

4501
06:37:15,860 --> 06:37:22,540
They have cedar wood, they have the equipment in order to keep the humidity at the appropriate

4502
06:37:22,540 --> 06:37:31,460
level in order to store a significant amount of inventory of cigars within the humidor.

4503
06:37:32,620 --> 06:37:39,680
So, that cigar, a fixionados, can come, peruse the different types of cigars that they have,

4504
06:37:40,300 --> 06:37:46,680
buy the cigar and have the opportunity to enjoy the cigar while smoking in the

4505
06:37:46,680 --> 06:37:54,480
lamps. They may also buy a box and take it home to enjoy at home. They choose to

4506
06:37:54,480 --> 06:38:00,620
come to the lounge. We will have food service available for them. We will have

4507
06:38:00,620 --> 06:38:06,140
high-end leather chairs to provide that cigar-efficient, efficient, efficient

4508
06:38:06,140 --> 06:38:13,020
an auto-environment that is attractive to people who enjoy smoking cigars.

4509
06:38:14,180 --> 06:38:18,760
They will socialize, talk about the cigars, talk about the different types of tobacco and

4510
06:38:18,760 --> 06:38:19,620
what they enjoy.

4511
06:38:21,860 --> 06:38:29,440
Smoking lounge could be used by others who want to bring in a different type of tobacco product.

4512
06:38:30,740 --> 06:38:35,140
So they could smoke a different type of product that they enjoy.

4513
06:38:37,020 --> 06:38:45,140
As I mentioned, recognize that the traditional fake business, it's not appropriate here,

4514
06:38:45,920 --> 06:38:48,040
it does leave us with a leftover space.

4515
06:38:49,100 --> 06:38:53,240
And so we would like to rent it to a tenant, another tenant, a small shop tenant,

4516
06:38:53,740 --> 06:38:57,060
who would use the space for another permitted use within the district.

4517
06:38:58,520 --> 06:39:05,880
Could be a nail salon, barber, could be a grocery store, could be an ethics store.

4518
06:39:06,600 --> 06:39:13,120
anybody who would like to use the space. And then the back in the warehouse space, the small

4519
06:39:13,120 --> 06:39:23,780
business would continue to maintain its inventory that it uses to supply product to its 26 other

4520
06:39:23,780 --> 06:39:26,620
locations across the Richmond region.

4521
06:39:31,700 --> 06:39:33,740
The slide here just goes through the different uses

4522
06:39:33,740 --> 06:39:34,600
that I've explained.

4523
06:39:37,020 --> 06:39:41,900
And this is the type of signage that you would see on this location.

4524
06:39:47,520 --> 06:39:50,520
With that, be glad to answer any questions. That's a commission may have,

4525
06:39:52,120 --> 06:39:57,440
but would ask that the commission recommended approval of the conditional use request before you

4526
06:39:58,400 --> 06:40:04,890
subject to the conditions set out in the staff report. Thank you Mr. Gagger. Do you

4527
06:40:08,170 --> 06:40:12,490
So what are the products that they're planning on selling is the cigars only in cigars

4528
06:40:12,490 --> 06:40:16,410
accessories or are they planning on doing vape juice or anything else what are the actual

4529
06:40:16,410 --> 06:40:23,210
products that they're looking at? They will be selling on site the cigars within the

4530
06:40:23,710 --> 06:40:24,190
humidor's.

4531
06:40:28,140 --> 06:40:32,080
All right what is the store they have up the street? Are they maintaining that other

4532
06:40:32,080 --> 06:40:38,380
stores well? I mean I'm asking they don't they have a store just up the street? We have one in

4533
06:40:38,380 --> 06:40:40,500
and Luffy and Village, is that what you're referring to?

4534
06:40:42,180 --> 06:40:43,440
Okay, no, my normal patient.

4535
06:40:44,140 --> 06:40:47,100
You are thinking as Mr. Ellis mentioned,

4536
06:40:47,380 --> 06:40:49,480
there are two other stores not affiliated.

4537
06:40:49,500 --> 06:40:51,560
In here by that are not owned by this company.

4538
06:40:51,740 --> 06:40:53,380
Okay, thank you.

4539
06:40:55,700 --> 06:40:56,920
All right, and then the hours,

4540
06:40:57,080 --> 06:40:59,520
they're looking to do hours outside of the times

4541
06:40:59,520 --> 06:41:01,240
that we specify it in the ordinance.

4542
06:41:02,500 --> 06:41:04,320
Are they open to reduce those hours

4543
06:41:04,320 --> 06:41:06,140
to the time that's actually in our ordinance?

4544
06:41:06,360 --> 06:41:09,020
The reason why I ask is, we just pass the ordinance.

4545
06:41:10,500 --> 06:41:16,340
The first case coming up after the ordinance, looking for exceptions, you can see where the commission is here.

4546
06:41:17,260 --> 06:41:20,540
Not up. I do understand.

4547
06:41:24,320 --> 06:41:30,420
That's why I led with, we're not here because we're acting after the fact.

4548
06:41:34,140 --> 06:41:37,320
Unfortunately, the small business got caught.

4549
06:41:38,220 --> 06:41:44,320
I understand, I mean, the school situation, I looked at that 1902 feet, eight feet, I mean,

4550
06:41:44,520 --> 06:41:49,280
based on how you're measuring it, I mean, that was a different one, but the other shop,

4551
06:41:49,340 --> 06:41:54,420
I think was what, 390 feet away, so you can kind of see where we're going from there.

4552
06:41:54,840 --> 06:41:55,500
Okay, that's my question.

4553
06:41:56,480 --> 06:42:00,400
Mr. Owens, Mr. Chairman, may I address Mr. Owens' question on the hours?

4554
06:42:01,560 --> 06:42:02,280
I

4555
06:42:05,130 --> 06:42:10,510
think that we would ask that the Commission consider that the new ordinance was adopted,

4556
06:42:11,730 --> 06:42:19,510
I think, in response to concerns about how these traditional vape shops advertise,

4557
06:42:19,630 --> 06:42:21,770
present themselves to the public.

4558
06:42:22,910 --> 06:42:24,910
We are not doing that.

4559
06:42:25,250 --> 06:42:31,570
I think the hours were there in consideration of a vision of a business operation that we're

4560
06:42:31,570 --> 06:42:34,310
you can see that we're not asking for.

4561
06:42:35,870 --> 06:42:39,890
And there are other businesses like us are open later,

4562
06:42:40,790 --> 06:42:46,070
and offer the opportunity for people to come and enjoy a cigar at night.

4563
06:42:46,910 --> 06:42:49,790
And so that's the reason for the request.

4564
06:42:50,390 --> 06:42:53,670
The request is just for the lounge in the humidor.

4565
06:42:59,980 --> 06:43:00,740
Any other questions?

4566
06:43:00,740 --> 06:43:05,060
I had had a question if I could ask for me.

4567
06:43:06,320 --> 06:43:13,660
In the end, it appears the use of the smoking lounges.

4568
06:43:13,660 --> 06:43:18,320
It seems a bit vague to me, still as to what materials can be smoked within.

4569
06:43:19,000 --> 06:43:27,180
So if you could kind of elaborate as to just strictly tobacco, that could be smoked within that lounge,

4570
06:43:27,180 --> 06:43:34,120
or is this going to be open to a wider variety of material?

4571
06:43:35,940 --> 06:43:37,940
And I think that it's a...

4572
06:43:37,940 --> 06:43:40,060
I think we all assume it's a tobacco cigar,

4573
06:43:40,640 --> 06:43:44,680
but the idea of limiting this to just a tobacco product,

4574
06:43:44,820 --> 06:43:48,600
I think, was part of the argument that you were trying to make earlier,

4575
06:43:48,900 --> 06:43:53,840
that it did not include vapor, other hemp type products.

4576
06:43:53,840 --> 06:43:57,620
I have this location, could you collaborate on some of that?

4577
06:43:57,780 --> 06:43:58,060
Yes.

4578
06:43:58,460 --> 06:44:00,040
I think that's a great question.

4579
06:44:00,460 --> 06:44:03,580
And Angle, I did not think about prior to your question.

4580
06:44:04,420 --> 06:44:09,540
The intent here is for tobacco products to be smoked within the lounge.

4581
06:44:11,640 --> 06:44:15,940
And tobacco products to be sold within the humidor?

4582
06:44:16,740 --> 06:44:17,140
Correct.

4583
06:44:18,540 --> 06:44:20,720
Segar products within the humidor.

4584
06:44:23,520 --> 06:44:25,380
May have to revise some of that.

4585
06:44:25,380 --> 06:44:34,510
Yep, we're happy to these conditions are imposed by staff and we're happy to work with staff on

4586
06:44:35,400 --> 06:44:42,660
better wording for that. The intent is for tobacco. We're not looking for hemp type products.

4587
06:44:55,430 --> 06:44:59,970
It could be your conditional uses by ordinance can be.

4588
06:45:00,000 --> 06:45:03,720
Poll backed. Mr. Robinson, may I have that right?

4589
06:45:08,360 --> 06:45:08,780
Thank you, Mr. Gaga.

4590
06:45:09,740 --> 06:45:14,440
So with that, I will open the public hearing, and being this is in the mid-Lothian district,

4591
06:45:14,480 --> 06:45:22,300
I will quickly address that there has been zero comments engagement. We schedule the community

4592
06:45:22,300 --> 06:45:26,940
meeting, but we've had no feedback from the public, but I'm anticipating something tonight.

4593
06:45:27,660 --> 06:45:31,440
So I will turn to the audience and ask if there's anyone in attendance who would like to speak

4594
06:45:31,440 --> 06:45:34,500
in either opposition or support of this case.

4595
06:45:39,540 --> 06:45:46,180
I don't will have to say I'm not necessarily in opposition, but as Mr. Owen said,

4596
06:45:46,420 --> 06:45:48,400
you've just passed this ordinance.

4597
06:45:49,340 --> 06:45:52,960
And if there's something I don't really remember what the ordinance was quite frankly,

4598
06:45:53,200 --> 06:45:58,860
but if there's something in there that this ordinance is prohibiting,

4599
06:45:59,860 --> 06:46:02,280
You need to deny it.

4600
06:46:02,940 --> 06:46:08,860
We have baked shops on the highway that are just popping up left and right that are within

4601
06:46:09,980 --> 06:46:15,860
or two close and we're having to deal with that now because of the way they've been opening up.

4602
06:46:17,580 --> 06:46:25,120
But we need some semblance of unity.

4603
06:46:25,880 --> 06:46:32,640
If you're going to have an ordinance, you need to enforce it, and you need to be enforced

4604
06:46:32,640 --> 06:46:40,780
across the board for whatever reason this is not being approved and staff did say denial.

4605
06:46:42,900 --> 06:46:47,820
So, I feel for the guy, he did get kind of caught in this ordinance, but the ordinance

4606
06:46:47,820 --> 06:46:52,480
was passed for a reason, so you need to look at that reason and determine whether or not

4607
06:46:52,480 --> 06:46:54,480
You want to enforce it.

4608
06:46:55,800 --> 06:46:56,460
Thank you, Miss Seljud.

4609
06:47:04,580 --> 06:47:05,240
I'm Jerry Turner.

4610
06:47:06,860 --> 06:47:07,820
I don't smoke.

4611
06:47:08,900 --> 06:47:10,500
I don't object to people smoking.

4612
06:47:11,560 --> 06:47:15,380
But you got a staff that has recommended the now.

4613
06:47:16,220 --> 06:47:18,880
Y'all pay these people to do this research

4614
06:47:18,880 --> 06:47:22,000
until advise you what you all need to do.

4615
06:47:22,740 --> 06:47:24,440
And they just recommend the now.

4616
06:47:25,100 --> 06:47:26,180
You need to listen to them.

4617
06:47:26,420 --> 06:47:26,940
Thank you.

4618
06:47:27,740 --> 06:47:28,500
Thank you, Mr. Turner.

4619
06:47:28,500 --> 06:47:31,320
So, anyone else present who would like to speak?

4620
06:47:32,020 --> 06:47:33,400
I think our audience is run dry.

4621
06:47:35,620 --> 06:47:38,340
Seeing none, I will ask the applicant

4622
06:47:38,340 --> 06:47:40,180
if they would like a rebuttal.

4623
06:47:42,080 --> 06:47:44,140
Actually, I have to close the public hearing first.

4624
06:47:44,500 --> 06:47:44,680
And now,

4625
06:47:48,030 --> 06:47:49,870
Mr. Chairman, appreciate the opportunity.

4626
06:47:50,410 --> 06:47:51,970
And I appreciate Mr. Eldridge's comments.

4627
06:47:52,190 --> 06:47:53,310
Mr. Scherner's comments.

4628
06:47:57,520 --> 06:48:00,880
In working this case, we've looked at the definition

4629
06:48:00,880 --> 06:48:05,440
that you've created, and your intent, I think,

4630
06:48:05,440 --> 06:48:10,950
was to regulate vape shops,

4631
06:48:13,100 --> 06:48:15,660
but it's pretty broad in the way you've

4632
06:48:15,660 --> 06:48:24,380
written it and you've captured another type of tobacco related business, a smoking

4633
06:48:24,380 --> 06:48:24,900
lounge.

4634
06:48:27,420 --> 06:48:33,160
I think the ordinance was written to allow us to come to you and ask for

4635
06:48:33,160 --> 06:48:43,120
additional use for those times that we may be there might be a business that has an idea

4636
06:48:43,120 --> 06:48:50,810
that's different than the vape shop and we want to provide a service that's demanded by consumers.

4637
06:48:55,100 --> 06:49:03,260
I think we're honoring what you did and we're asking for permission to say we're different

4638
06:49:04,220 --> 06:49:10,600
And we'd like to have an exception that is authorized within the amendment that you passed.

4639
06:49:14,030 --> 06:49:16,750
We recognize that a vape shop is not allowed here.

4640
06:49:17,830 --> 06:49:19,130
We remove that.

4641
06:49:19,770 --> 06:49:22,950
We're prepared to move forward with the smoking lounge.

4642
06:49:25,360 --> 06:49:26,960
Happy to answer any other questions.

4643
06:49:27,520 --> 06:49:28,600
If you have any.

4644
06:49:28,860 --> 06:49:29,780
Thank you Mr. Geiger.

4645
06:49:29,960 --> 06:49:31,700
Anybody have any further questions for the applicant?

4646
06:49:34,230 --> 06:49:35,910
Thank you.

4647
06:49:35,910 --> 06:49:43,570
Okay, since this case is in the middle of the district, I will lead the discussion, and I do appreciate the applicant

4648
06:49:44,150 --> 06:49:45,570
submitting the addendum

4649
06:49:45,570 --> 06:49:48,970
being agreeable to Dork Gilles suggestion and

4650
06:49:49,910 --> 06:49:51,310
overall just being

4651
06:49:51,310 --> 06:49:57,430
very cooperative. That being said, I cannot support this case as it is presently

4652
06:49:58,530 --> 06:50:00,250
but I do

4653
06:50:00,250 --> 06:50:03,450
I do have the desire to continue to work with this applicant

4654
06:50:03,450 --> 06:50:10,850
because I'm hopeful that we can find a path to a resolution that could be a good compromise for everybody involved.

4655
06:50:12,050 --> 06:50:16,210
So I do not yet want to deny it, but I just cannot support it as written today.

4656
06:50:16,410 --> 06:50:24,090
So I would ask my fellow commissioners to join me in a motion to defer case two,

4657
06:50:27,970 --> 06:50:27,970
three,

4658
06:50:27,970 --> 06:50:33,030
I can carry 10 to back go until our next scheduled planning commission hearing, which is

4659
06:50:33,030 --> 06:50:35,630
presently scheduled for June 18th, 2024.

4660
06:50:37,030 --> 06:50:37,970
I'll second that.

4661
06:50:38,910 --> 06:50:39,330
Okay.

4662
06:50:39,390 --> 06:50:40,850
We have a motion and a second.

4663
06:50:40,970 --> 06:50:41,970
We have any further discussion?

4664
06:50:43,030 --> 06:50:43,810
Mr. Chair.

4665
06:50:44,330 --> 06:50:46,850
I just want to offer very quick comment that I too.

4666
06:50:47,610 --> 06:50:50,970
The cases at Stan's stay, I would not support it.

4667
06:50:52,010 --> 06:50:57,370
And unfortunately, for the applicant, there are, there are, there are people

4668
06:50:57,370 --> 06:51:01,650
that I've preceded him in this space, the smoking lounge space,

4669
06:51:04,880 --> 06:51:07,220
that caused us as a body

4670
06:51:07,220 --> 06:51:14,540
to have to react and, you know, I would never want to put, you know, our irony and us

4671
06:51:14,540 --> 06:51:22,840
people on the spot, but there was a smoke shop in our district where patrons ended up walking

4672
06:51:22,840 --> 06:51:25,420
into the firehouse because they were looking for food,

4673
06:51:27,440 --> 06:51:29,260
because the environment was completely

4674
06:51:29,260 --> 06:51:36,740
unregulated, there were no restrictions, and it fell under a lot of the situations that

4675
06:51:36,740 --> 06:51:38,040
were liable in the ordinance.

4676
06:51:38,920 --> 06:51:44,400
So it's a much broader issue other than concern about advertising and so forth.

4677
06:51:44,620 --> 06:51:51,280
There were a lot of mental health was brought in on the issue, substance abuse, and there were

4678
06:51:51,280 --> 06:51:59,480
more to that. So, you know, I would encourage the applicant to work with, you know, with

4679
06:51:59,480 --> 06:52:07,220
Chairman Petrovski to really figure out how a lot of protections can be put in place

4680
06:52:07,220 --> 06:52:13,220
so that many of the issues that we have had to deal with, the taxpayers had to pay for.

4681
06:52:13,940 --> 06:52:15,860
We don't have those mistakes moving forward.

4682
06:52:18,380 --> 06:52:19,100
Thank you, Commissioner.

4683
06:52:20,760 --> 06:52:25,840
So, in response to the staff recommending denial, staff has to recommend dial because the

4684
06:52:25,840 --> 06:52:30,280
ordinance says they have to, so that's one of the things I just want to stay right there.

4685
06:52:30,500 --> 06:52:34,760
The ordinance says that it's would be a violation of the ordinance, first of all.

4686
06:52:35,180 --> 06:52:39,600
So, that's one of the main things in the denial is it just violates the ordinance.

4687
06:52:40,320 --> 06:52:45,380
Second, I understand where the applicant is coming from for their business and what they want to

4688
06:52:45,380 --> 06:52:48,440
and wanted to be at the back only cigar.

4689
06:52:49,540 --> 06:52:54,060
I think we could work on language for this to put some protections in it, but I don't

4690
06:52:54,060 --> 06:52:55,560
think that something we could work through tonight.

4691
06:52:56,200 --> 06:53:00,100
I think this is, if we take some time, we may be able to work with the applicant and get

4692
06:53:00,100 --> 06:53:04,960
to a location, but it's not a Tuesday night at the last minute, kind of think.

4693
06:53:06,420 --> 06:53:07,420
Thank you, Mr. Owens.

4694
06:53:08,340 --> 06:53:08,920
What else?

4695
06:53:10,270 --> 06:53:16,270
Okay, so we have a motion by Commissioner Trotskin, a second by Commissioner Harden.

4696
06:53:16,870 --> 06:53:18,470
Madam Clark, please take a roll call.

4697
06:53:22,060 --> 06:53:22,800
Mr. Petrosky?

4698
06:53:23,220 --> 06:53:23,480
Aye.

4699
06:53:24,100 --> 06:53:25,060
Mr. Sloan?

4700
06:53:25,160 --> 06:53:25,380
Aye.

4701
06:53:26,000 --> 06:53:26,620
Ms. Harden?

4702
06:53:26,820 --> 06:53:27,120
Aye.

4703
06:53:27,760 --> 06:53:28,320
Dr. Hilton?

4704
06:53:29,040 --> 06:53:29,260
Aye.

4705
06:53:29,720 --> 06:53:30,500
Mr. Owens?

4706
06:53:33,700 --> 06:53:38,580
Did we ask the applicant if they accept the deferral?

4707
06:53:39,580 --> 06:53:40,220
We'll do what we finish.

4708
06:53:41,580 --> 06:53:42,560
Do they have to?

4709
06:53:43,260 --> 06:53:49,120
Well, if they don't accept it, then we're on the clock, but if they do accept it, it changes things.

4710
06:53:51,940 --> 06:53:57,580
With the applicant, can you come up and just dig us acknowledge it on the microphone? Please, thank you.

4711
06:53:59,020 --> 06:54:00,140
We do accept the deferral.

4712
06:54:00,700 --> 06:54:01,160
Okay, aye.

4713
06:54:04,250 --> 06:54:04,950
You're welcome.

4714
06:54:06,050 --> 06:54:08,990
Mr. Chair, the vote is unanimous in the motion passes.

4715
06:54:09,910 --> 06:54:10,570
Thank you, Madam Chair.

4716
06:54:10,570 --> 06:54:21,590
That concludes the evening's public hearings, and our last item on the agenda would be the second comments on unscheduled matters section.

4717
06:54:21,790 --> 06:54:25,950
Is there anyone present who would like to speak on unscheduled? There is.

4718
06:54:26,210 --> 06:54:32,260
Dr. Gillies, can you quickly rehash those guidelines?

4719
06:54:32,780 --> 06:54:34,060
Mr. Turner.

4720
06:54:35,340 --> 06:54:42,400
This portion of the meeting, only in this portion of the meeting on a specific public eye

4721
06:54:42,400 --> 06:54:47,180
to a comment involving services policies and affairs of the county government regarding the

4722
06:54:47,180 --> 06:54:51,900
planning and land use matters may be presented. These comments may not address any matter

4723
06:54:51,900 --> 06:54:56,700
the business that was subject to the commission's agenda to die. And there's a limit of 15 minutes,

4724
06:54:56,960 --> 06:54:58,500
each speaker gets five, three minutes.

4725
06:54:58,500 --> 06:54:59,080
to

4726
06:55:01,870 --> 06:55:02,290
Gilles.

4727
06:55:03,690 --> 06:55:04,730
Mr. Turner, we're ready.

4728
06:55:05,210 --> 06:55:05,730
I'm Jerry Turner.

4729
06:55:07,270 --> 06:55:08,790
The question I've got,

4730
06:55:09,050 --> 06:55:11,350
mainly for the planning department,

4731
06:55:12,510 --> 06:55:17,730
is we see all these projects coming forward with all these

4732
06:55:17,730 --> 06:55:21,290
of students that are going down to all these schools,

4733
06:55:21,770 --> 06:55:25,790
is anybody keeping up with a record of how many people

4734
06:55:25,790 --> 06:55:32,810
or students, y'all are putting into these schools by proving all of these projects.

4735
06:55:34,270 --> 06:55:40,090
Because right down the street where a courthouse is in the host street, they're building

4736
06:55:40,090 --> 06:55:42,150
about 500 parts over there.

4737
06:55:44,460 --> 06:55:48,800
I'm not sure how many I haven't looked to see what they anticipate that's going to do

4738
06:55:48,800 --> 06:55:51,380
to the schools in that part.

4739
06:55:52,580 --> 06:55:58,380
There's a development right behind me that's been approved about five six years ago.

4740
06:55:59,660 --> 06:56:03,880
That's about, I think it's a hundred and twenty houses back there.

4741
06:56:04,580 --> 06:56:11,660
Is anybody in the county keeping up with how many people or how many students are going to be put into all these,

4742
06:56:11,660 --> 06:56:14,720
the schools, if everybody acts on.

4743
06:56:15,120 --> 06:56:15,430
Thank you.

4744
06:56:16,700 --> 06:56:17,620
Thank you, Mr. Turner.

4745
06:56:18,300 --> 06:56:19,040
Anyone else present?

4746
06:56:19,040 --> 06:56:20,500
I would like to speak.

4747
06:56:30,270 --> 06:56:34,970
Good evening. My name is Renee Eldard, and I hope all of y'all appeared no

4748
06:56:35,790 --> 06:56:43,830
me. I do speak on a lot of cases, but I hope you understand that I do this from a point

4749
06:56:43,830 --> 06:56:52,650
of trying to make things better. And because I've been doing it for so long, I guess I have

4750
06:56:52,650 --> 06:56:59,190
perspective that somebody who's this first time they've come before you, they may or may not have.

4751
06:57:00,190 --> 06:57:08,590
So I just want you to know that I don't do this just to hear myself talk. I actually am trying

4752
06:57:08,590 --> 06:57:17,110
to make a project better when I speak. And I'm not doing it out of malice towards anybody or

4753
06:57:17,110 --> 06:57:24,750
disrespect towards anybody. I just think that the knowledge that I've attained over the

4754
06:57:24,750 --> 06:57:35,510
last 25 years, it needs to be said because sometimes it's not said. And I just hope you

4755
06:57:35,510 --> 06:57:42,730
understand that and see me for who I am. And thank you. Thank you, Mr.

4756
06:57:48,430 --> 06:57:48,470
Chair.

4757
06:57:48,470 --> 06:57:49,550
That's good.

4758
06:57:49,830 --> 06:57:56,110
So now we typically don't engage a respond to citizen comments, but I very briefly would

4759
06:57:56,110 --> 06:58:07,870
like to say, you know, Renee, Mr. Turner, Mr. Allen was here, we can't do our job effectively

4760
06:58:08,630 --> 06:58:13,370
without input from citizens just like the two of you.

4761
06:58:13,370 --> 06:58:22,530
I encourage you. Keep coming, keep talking, keep challenging. We may not always agree.

4762
06:58:23,910 --> 06:58:38,090
But I cannot understate or overstate enough the importance that citizens participating in these processes are vitally important.

4763
06:58:39,450 --> 06:58:46,370
And if at any time, you question or you think, you sound like a broken record, whatever it is,

4764
06:58:46,470 --> 06:58:50,070
you may be prompted you to come down, throw that idea at the window.

4765
06:58:53,600 --> 06:58:59,640
I'd like to also make a quick comment, I do read a lot on social media and I see a lot of people

4766
06:58:59,640 --> 06:59:04,640
complain about the zoning and some of the planning that happens in the county and the people

4767
06:59:04,640 --> 06:59:10,040
who are the loudest online are the people you never see at a community meeting, you never see them

4768
06:59:10,040 --> 06:59:16,080
an email. You never see them come speak. You never get a phone call from them. They don't participate

4769
06:59:16,080 --> 06:59:22,720
and they're not part of the process. So you all being here is actually appreciated because you're

4770
06:59:22,720 --> 06:59:27,880
part of the process and if you don't become part of the process and you speak in whatever vacuum you

4771
06:59:27,880 --> 06:59:32,800
live in and nobody hears you, we have no feedback from you. So keep doing what you're doing.

4772
06:59:33,660 --> 06:59:34,260
So,

4773
06:59:39,130 --> 06:59:43,990
since I'm going to avoid breaking protocol, I'm going to treat this as if we've already

4774
06:59:43,990 --> 06:59:48,170
moved on to the next agenda item, other business, and that's what we are presenting

4775
06:59:48,170 --> 06:59:48,630
discussing.

4776
06:59:49,190 --> 06:59:53,630
I will tack on to that, because I will hardly agree.

4777
06:59:54,310 --> 06:59:59,730
I sincerely appreciate not only what you do, but how you approach it.

4778
07:00:00,000 --> 07:00:07,440
Thank you, and please keep it up. Any other other business that you'd like to do?

4779
07:00:08,940 --> 07:00:11,100
Well, no, I'm waiting to do this to make a motion.

4780
07:00:13,500 --> 07:00:14,580
I will.

4781
07:00:15,260 --> 07:00:16,060
I will.

4782
07:00:16,140 --> 07:00:16,840
In the motion, I want to make.

4783
07:00:16,840 --> 07:00:23,880
Intertain the motion and the second to call for the meeting to be adjourned until noon on Tuesday, June 18th.

4784
07:00:23,920 --> 07:00:24,340
Motion?

4785
07:00:26,510 --> 07:00:27,370
Is there any discussion?

4786
07:00:29,990 --> 07:00:36,830
Madam Clerk, we have a motion for a German, but a German by Commissioner Owens, a second by Commissioner Sloan.

4787
07:00:37,150 --> 07:00:38,330
Madam Clerk, please take the roll.

4788
07:00:39,550 --> 07:00:40,530
Mr. Petroski.

4789
07:00:41,870 --> 07:00:42,670
Mr. Sloan.

4790
07:00:43,110 --> 07:00:44,110
Ms. Harden.

4791
07:00:44,150 --> 07:00:44,490
Hi.

4792
07:00:44,850 --> 07:00:45,470
Dr. Hilton.

4793
07:00:46,310 --> 07:00:47,110
Mr. Owens.

4794
07:00:47,170 --> 07:00:47,570
Hi.

4795
07:00:48,150 --> 07:00:50,850
The motion is unanimous for adjournment.

4796
07:00:51,550 --> 07:00:52,570
In adjourn. Thank you, everyone.

4797
07:01:36,350 --> 07:01:41,190
Ladies and gentlemen, today's ceremony marks the first step in building the Lago group's

4798
07:01:41,190 --> 07:01:49,070
right here in Chesterfield County. And I still remember the first beating between our teams and your teams.

4799
07:01:49,950 --> 07:01:54,310
And when I left, I was so proud of thinking this feels right.

4800
07:01:54,790 --> 07:01:59,230
Most of you know we probably know that on somewhat reserve sometimes in my nature.

4801
07:02:00,830 --> 07:02:07,710
But today, I'm going to use a phrase that some of you may use me with if you're moving.

4802
07:02:08,910 --> 07:02:12,050
Everything is awesome here in Chetheville County.

4803
07:02:14,210 --> 07:02:15,790
What a day.

4804
07:02:15,950 --> 07:02:16,650
What a day.

4805
07:02:17,090 --> 07:02:20,710
It's a day for us to, yes, extend thank yous.

4806
07:02:21,230 --> 07:02:30,390
It's a day for us to recognize that it's a package of individual contributions that come together to do amazing things.

4807
07:02:30,890 --> 07:02:35,230
It's a day for us to really smile and see children playing.

4808
07:02:35,230 --> 07:02:44,330
Thinking, breaking out of what otherwise sometimes is a sense that their imaginations have no place to go.