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micone thank you sir very welcome so old
topic new topic uh issues of speeding in
the city is conc so I was asked to come
up here and talk about the uh topic that
we formally had about reduction of the
speed limit to 25 milph I'm sure we all
saw that the city of Albany recently
reduced their speed to miles hour um
that was earlier this week I was in
contact with f was in Albany their
engineer and we did have an internal
meeting by the with the police
department and Brian Canon with the sign
signal department and we did decide to
uh start looking at and moving this
forward at the request of the council um
as you know previously I've been
engaging with uh Fred mastriani fcm
engineering we looked specifically at
Kings Road Rugby Road Dwayne Avenue when
we were doing small studies um given
that the the studies have been varied
with what it is and then Alban's outcome
Albany did reduce uh the majority of
their City to 25 milph using uh
different engineering um what I metrics
they use density they use um you know
character of the neighborhood they used
a couple of things that we hadn't looked
at before uh to do that um so what we
then did is Mayor and I reached out to
our transportation Council we had a
meeting with them today with their
executive director um and the
transportation Council uh has agreed
they have a they receive grant funding
through the Safe Streets for all Grant
it's called ss4a it's Federal program
and as part of that they uh hired a
consultant and we'll be working with
municipalities on coming up with the
recommendations for select
municipalities for reduction of speed
for the roads they already have the
consultant on board uh and she is more
than willing to work with us on that so
given that um our previous engineer Fred
if everyone knows great gentleman
smaller operation very good at the
singular streets but if we're going to
be moving to we want to look at the
whole city holistically like Al did we'd
really like to take the opportunity to
accept the the grant money and move
forward with working with uh essentially
the capital region no on putting
together recommendations for the entire
Council to lower the city uh speed Li to
25 so right now that was we had that
meeting just today we had our meeting
meting with the police department um on
Friday and uh you know we did just I
don't want to speak for for Brian uh you
know he's been doing some research on it
and the the impact that can have when
you do lower the speed limit for
pedestrian safety and things it is it is
significant yes so um we don't want to
take it lightly if the council is in
favor of us moving forward with the
study for the entire reduction then
we're going to work with the no and and
come back with a proposal on the entire
city go ahead Miss Patrick um so we've
been uh talking about this since August
of 2022 that was the first time that I
put in a legislative request and then I
put one in in September of
2023 um and and more recently um I do
have the materials from Albany that were
sent to me from uh someone connected
over there so I saw the Katon Manning I
think I think that's the name of the fir
Manning yon Manning uh that did the
engineering study I actually hoped that
tonight we were actually going to be
able to take action as Council and vote
for a 25 M hour speed limit um my
thought is I'd like to see the city
become 25 miles per hour um across the
city and then do the exensions on the
streets that have high density need the
traffic flow um to be faster uh as it is
right now I think on eie state coule
couple of
areas obviously stay at the 15 M hour
speed limit in the um school zones but
um because I the research is just as you
said I mean there's you know whether
it's the Federal Highway whether it's
the Insurance Institute um you know
there's another Federal uh body as well
all of them cite that the bottom line is
that it definitely um prevents accidents
um and certainly is uh increases
pedestrian safety um and I think as we
continue moving towards trying to be a
more bikable and walkable city um that
reducing the speed limit would be and on
top of doing other things like stock
signs in different areas and and and
other types of traffic cing measures but
so we did talk about that today as well
and I just want to address the the
reason that this has been so complex is
that the state came out and they said if
you want to Red reduce it here are your
metrics um and so we're really not
talking about the local roads the local
roads are the local roads um which are
typically you know any road other than
Union not Eastern all but um what we
really want to do is is when we we go
forward have the evidence one of the
things that I was I was surprised with
Albany was they did it via a density
survey more or less and they did have
some information but it
was it was wider spread than I would
have thought larger portions of Central
Avenue larger portions of Washington
Avenue areas that I personally was not
looking at you know not to say with uh
regards to Kings Road which we all have
been talking about um that street under
these new guidelines may be more
eligible than what we did we did a
complete traffic study and they came
back with a different metric that said
given the character of the street and
they looked at a different metric and I
want to make sure if we're looking at
the city holistically like that that
we're all on the same page as a region
which is why I really like the no
stepping in and helping out with this
because we don't only want it to be good
for pedestrian safety but we also want
to make sure that when we do enforcement
it is extremely enforceable we do not
want someone coming back and saying
you're engineering judgment on this role
this should never have been 25 and
coming back at us and going down that
road um you know there are Saratoga Troy
they're also in this study for the Safe
Streets for all so I think it will give
us more of a base to hang our hats on to
say listen you know this was the
regional study that we looked at and
this is where we're going um because
like I said we were looking at road by
road and pulling data from our Smart
City cameras because that's how
seriously we were taking it and we were
getting a recommendation so right now
our recommendation was okay Kings Road
we did not have the information at the
time to say because we were pulling it
and we said Rugby Road we do so right
now and that that kind of a process
would take too long looking at the city
from this holistic view so I'd like to
keep going with the no to get it done
and then just come to you with the which
they had which was a GIS map I don't
know if you saw that colorcoded with
what streets they were going down and
looking at it um and and I will put a
you know I will talk with them and try
to get a time frame on it to try to push
it forward but I really don't want to
just come and say 25 Citywide I I really
would prefer not to do that because I
think it puts a lot on on me personally
to sign off on something like that and
may may I also I just want to add that
um and I don't I can't speak from my
colleagues but I've certainly been
getting emails um um whether it's people
in the stock people in the GE flot I
mean it's not just Kings Road uh that
we're hearing from I mean we're hearing
from at least I'm hearing from people in
many different neighborhoods of the city
that support 100% somebody today told me
they supported 143% U moving forward
with trying to reduce the speed limit so
it is something that our residents are
um at least uh speaking with me about uh
very very and the other thing I don't
want to I don't want to forget this kind
of important fact um is the other reason
that we pushed it off that you and I
talked about was the financial impact of
this and that we wanted to make sure
that we got it done during this budget
cycle so I don't think we should hold
off on that we do know that it's going
to be an impact on signs I did talk to
Brian Cannon's uh let's say doppelganger
over in Albany and they will be putting
out a contract they're removing 200
signs they are putting up new signs I
think they're doing that with contract
work so it's it's not insignificant so I
think that was one of the things we had
talked about was that if we did go to 25
M hour even if we passed it with
legislation putting the signs up and
changing the physical nature of the city
would take a while I I do want to add on
that note that again my understanding is
and you guys are the experts but that um
again if it was Citywide with exemptions
in certain streets that you wouldn't
necessarily need 200 signs you'd need
the signs at the entrance points of the
city as they are now where it says 30 m
hour and those would get changed to 25
mil hour and then there'd be additional
signage based on um
those streets that were going to be
either higher than 25 miles hour or that
were obviously the school district I
always point you School District um
remain at 15 miles hour and and that is
correct but there are some signs we even
have signs I know Brian was looking into
it that say 35 miles hour so we wanted
to make sure we know where where those
signs were in some other areas I'm also
uh you know I want to talk with the
state about uie Boulevard because that's
one of the areas where yie Boulevard the
Gateway into the city north of the
roundabout that's one of our highest
speed we don't own that road I was going
to talk with them about if we could
reduce that coming into the city and see
what their appetite for that would be as
it's 40 um
but there's a lot to do with this and I
have not been putting my full attention
on it I apologize for that um I was kind
of hanging my head on moving forward
slower getting the budget lines together
getting Brian up to speed and uh like I
said with the the no being here now will
push it but I don't have any any magic
answers for it right now so right now
you don't know what the timeline will be
she has the Grant and they're working on
it they have the consultant already on
board but I don't have a timeline but we
just met with her today and she was
enthusiastic about it and I can get a
timeline what do what does NP stand for
again our uh Metropolitan planning
organization so that is our that is the
C it used to be called the Capital
District transportation committee now
they're the capital region
Transportation Council um so they handle
all of the major transportation planning
in the area um I've worked with them on
our ada8 transition plan they're the
ones that we go through for all of our
federal projects you know I really try
to lean on them because they are a
resource that I don't have in my office
and they do have staff that are you know
educated engineers and planners to help
with these kind of things so so I I just
want to ask you mentioned Kings Road rby
and then Dwayne Avenue I know that
we got had speed humps like for for one
I don't know how many weeks a very short
time and supposedly what was supposed to
come out of that was that they was in a
study feedback and then they were moved
to another location and we haven't heard
anything about that so I'm not asking
right here right now but if we could
include that and and also the
possibility of having those in the city
because people are asking about that I
they think that that's I can come back
with that that would be easier for me to
so we do have some information on that
and we did do a study for that one and I
don't know if we regrouped internally
but
that that was a successful project and
that's something that we are looking
to Mr TR oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm
sorry Mr mud next I was going to ask the
same question in terms of the timeline
so you as you mentioned just that we
have a grant and you're looking forward
for us to move forward with that Grant
the the transportation has the grant
it's a Federal grant for Safe Streets
and they're looking to take that they
have a consultant and they're looking to
do more of a a regional approach to uh
lowering people so is that cing us
anything no no now in terms of um do
Avenue and R was any study done on those
two streets yes yes yes I have studies
on
both because I remember that you present
with uh Kings Road only I we did present
King's Road and we we have done I have
not I don't know if I've ever presented
for Dwayne and no I did not okay rby I
think we might have had Mr
um both with rugby and 99% sure I have
it but uh John provided Fred with data
off of our Optical sensors and he was
able to put together a report that the
speed on Rugby was lower than the speed
on Kings and US easier to reduce to 25
mil hour and that's what I'm getting at
is that we were going with this approach
which was a longer approach and now
we're going to look at it in a different
approach and that's my AP because I was
taking this on a street by Street you
never going to get done it's like Paving
the roads so now we're going to use a
different way the consultant that we're
working with they're using not only
they're going to use our Optical sensor
data they use Google data off phones
track they have you know a little bit
bigger of a network and I think that's
how we're we're going to approach it and
then we'll have
one uniformed approach of the whole area
so when we go forward it'll be the same
as Troy it'll be the same as Saratoga I
think some of the other towns are using
it and uh and that'll kind of I hope
protect all of us a little bit more when
we Gove forward but I can get you the
information for Dwayne and rugby yeah if you can provide that the other
followup question in terms of um it's
good that we are moving towards this
reduction but at the same time can you
incorporate the enforcement into this
study because if we're going to reduce
it then how do we enforce it because if
we don't enforce it it's going to be the
same thing well I mean Brian you could
talk to that a little more if you want
to but we have purchased more you know
radar back cameras things like that we
are working together more on on active
enforcement can we
ask us a summ you want to talk to the
enforcement end of
it police I'm not
police we have to I'm sorry you have to
it's for the
public okay yeah enforcement is built in
no matter what the speeding is so so
changing the speed limit does present
new challenges for us because we have to
consider that since the signs are
changed we have to give people time to
get accustomed to the new speed but
we're enforcing the speed limit now when
we change the speed limit if we change
the speed limit that we'll be enforcing
speed limit whatever the new speed limit
is so well my question to that is do you
have the resource to to enforce it and
do would you need additional resource
for
enforcement I would say that it will be
a little bit more intensive than normal
because there will be an adjustment I
would expect during that period there
would probably be more advisements than
normal but but we would still be
conducting enforcement activities
obviously resources would help us with
that so so Mr you may want to consider
that into the traffic
study enforcement any resource that is
needed well I work with police on on
what we we need to do
no Mr T is
next
um oh I'm totally in in support of um
getting the grant getting the study
especially because we don't want any
repercussions from lawsuits and things
so I I I respect that and work that
you're doing on that um Mr W um I'm I'm
interested in uh from Brian uh Canon so
when we reduce
uh the speed if it gets reduced how does
that work f with signal control and all
the lights that have to be rearranged in
the city and stop and
go know
um
change um sure so um you know when we
reduce the speed I know that you know
signal control has to have plates at
different uh intervals throughout to
make things move quickly so what would
that entail on your part there will be
an adjustment as far as making sure some
of the timed lights fitting them into
maybe this new system where obviously
the traffic was going a little bit
faster now we have to go and adjust that
on a Case by casee basis depending on
what we land on after you know we do all
these studies and uh do the ultimate
adjustment here and that's just
something that we'll have to do um kind
of just making sure we outline the right
traffic signals and
has and um the signage um you know what would in t you be able to do that
in in house it is a major signage
project if what we foresee comes to
fruition but um with the gr money we
should be able to make be able to get
that done so the gr money no no we're
going to have to budget for us Grand
handles a study that's what we're
talking about so that was so to to John
to your point you're what we're doing
now is that we're going to we're going
to wrap our heads around in the next
month the budget right we're going to
find out what is going to cost us to do
these changes if there's any enforcement
things that need to be put into the
budget there's any capital I don't think
our inhouse Personnel are going to be
able to tackle this uh at one time so
that's what we're going to have to all
work together on putting together some
budget numbers either capital or
operating and say for this year to make
this transition this is what we're going
to need to do
but thatan that was we talk that was one
of the main reasons that we didn't know
what the impact was um the new mutcd
that just came out um that's the manual
uniform traffic control devices uh with
signage you know they will it does have
a sign in the new one that will allow it
says um 25 mil hour unless otherwise
indicated so that's the sign that you
were talking about putting at the
entrances so then we would put 30 m hour
signs where they would be um but once
again is that looking at what the city
of Aly has done we may be able
to have more in that lower speed which I
did not think was possible know CU roads
are classified arterial collectors all
like and I didn't think that maybe we
would be able eligible to reduce those
and it looks like we may be eligible to
do that which would which would be great
something that we talked about you know
if State Street were to actually go down
we're looking at you know classifying
State Street from Brandy Wine Avenue to
downtown it's very heavy compared to
some other areas on State Street so
really looking at it um you know that's
what the density St you look at whereas
right now if you seen in the we're P do
a Max and Road Extension Max Road
Extension is it's a Gateway into the
city but it is really not a high density
area so those are areas it's a different
way of looking at it and that's that's
where like I said the first time we're
looking at it so micro this is so much
big um and that's what in Brian you know
being new what he has John still as a
resource kind of wrap his head around
what the impact that his Department's
going to
be we will we will cross the finish line
with this it's just just have to get
little
BK so yeah first I want to say thank you
for you know kind of looking outside of the city and trying to leverage
existing resources in neighor
communities I think that's a really
great um tactic and I I I appreciate
your due Dil there so my question is and
I think that a lot of the members of the
council we are hearing things this has
been something that we've been talking
about um but it seems like if I'm
understanding this correctly kind of
this this new shift and kind of our
approach you know might get us more
impact for when when we start to run
things out in other words it doesn't
seem like even though we kind of going
um One Direction now using um this
resource that uh has won this GR and and
us partners with them will allow us to
do things in a larger impact which is
really good I guess my question is if we
have those speed humps right
now would it be wise for us to try to
deploy those in time as we're trying to
figure out things and doing the studies
would we be able to deploy those those
speed humps as a deterrent um to kind of
at
least less than the likelihood or or
going to produce some results for the
public
talking to us about
this you talk about the two temporary
speed HS we only have two we two have
two we have we have two they were on
Dwayne Avenue and we do have them at
Foster Avenue right
now so we we could deploy those
somewhere if there was a if there was a
location the Dwayne was a really great
location for because of the uh character
of the street straight long wide
proximity to a school zone and it really
gave us a a good a good area to test
that at and it was successful and I
believe um at least I'm talking with
Marvin you know she really says the
community wants them back um and it's
something that we wanted to talk with
ogs about I haven't had that talk about
starting uh once we once they think that
they are successful if we want to make
them permanent features of the city uh
and that's something also that Albany
has done with a a large investment into
speed speed pumps in Harbor
build um I think when we're thinking
about the budget and and the studies
that you're all talking about um I mean
hopefully we'll also be looking at where
we might need more stop signs also right
would be part of this I think um I know
but I'm just saying from everything stop
signs are are I know that they're
regulated by the do I I mean believe me
we've been talking about this since
August of 2022 so and I you know so
we've done a lot of research and and a
lot of reading on this um uh the other
thing I wanted to say was that Mr PA
many had also mentioned the cameras on
uh the stock lights uh the traff lights
um and I don't know if we ever um got
them in got them in um I mean again that
would be sort of this what he was
talking about at that time which I also
support is the idea that um you know it
would automatically ticket um people
that were going through uh red lights
for example do we do that now so um to
have red light cameras uh requires an
active State Legislature which we did
not pursue or we did pursue we did it's
not we did get it okay so we because I
know ALB has it and al2 ALB just
employed cameras for school zones as
well so Albany is looking to do cameras
for both we can check into it but I
thought I thought we had the the home
rul yes we did this year so we're
allowed to install
them I want to ver I can check I'll pass
I'll the only municipality I know where
that I thought was I know that we
submitted and asked for home rule on
that and I'm pretty sure
my so that's homework
I if that's something too that we were
look into that is also uh budgetary that would be a large um budget number
is that is a essentially a service um
that that comes with it you know You'
have to do an RFP select a vendor that
is a that would be a large undertaking
but it Aly has found it successful and
that's why they're doing it with school
zones you did you
have is there something I don't believe
the home rule legislation pass the
theory is changing on uh speeding where
the standard used to be
85 percentile of the
drivers what they felt was a comfortable
speed so you'd set it at 55 you set it
at 30 you set it at a lower amount the
theory now is Shifting because of the
number of auto accidents uh
pedestrian uh
accidents safety is taking a higher
priority and that seems to be the theory
which didn't seem to be available before
wasn't accepted
is what Aly did and so you can go
through and look at these areas where
the utilization is higher with
pedestrian traffic bike traffic other
things and take that into account
for your determination of the speed then
of course enforcement and education is a
big component of that no matter what we
put up there you got to get people to
comply with
it thank you go ahead p and I guess that
is um I I I want to add to that that um
I understand that there's going to be a
budgetary cost um to this but I I do
think that um the bottom line is that I
do think it will save lives um and
reduce um crashes so um in that sense um
you know I think we need to really
seriously consider this even with the
additional cost that
it well we're definitely going to have
to look into to what the impacts to be
financially but you know we can't put a
dollar on on people's lives on people's
safety you know to put a human face on
this we I know about the woman who was
injured had a traumatic bra injury
because of the accent believe was on
Boulevard um and so you know she's
written to us and um just talked about
how it's impact her life we and all of
you have the information here from Mr
Collins on uh on um King's Road and and
the impact that has had on him and his
family financially so you know we know
it's going to cost some money but it's
definitely something that we need to do
in and to make sure that our our
citizens are safe and just to say this
gone back more than two years because we
were talking about speed humps long
before they ever got there so it's been
quite a while that speeding's been an
issue in our city and we've been trying
to figure out ways to um you know to
resolve it and to get people to comply
and to have enforcement and change the mindset actually around speeding so
um I'm sorry Mr ch
um Mr Mar how will this affect um uh
electric bikes scooters electric motors
that are flying around the city on the
sidewalks on the street most of them can
do between 30 and 50 m an hour I know we
just got some new bikes um and I was
told that they can can go up to uh 50 m
an hour so what happens there again
would be enforcement maybe
or yeah yeah yeah
I mean anything that can travel that
fast that isn't you know powered by
pedaling alone would be considered a
motor vehicle whether it's electric or
not so it would be subject to all
vehicle and traffic laws
that
the
that that is also something that we just
talked about today uh called Turn Down
micr mobility and the impact that that's
having on
everything Mr topic of speed PP um we
had allocated
$20,000 did we utilize all that funding
we have we have around 65
left we bought two and we didn't have
enough yeah they're pretty
expensive I can look into it but yes we
did we did use we did use uh more than
half the money for the two their speed
tables are a little bit larger um than
the speed hump but we do have the Stu
I know Miss Patrick that you your your
goal tonight was to try get this move
through but it doesn't sound like
something that we could move forward on
tonight sounds like we're going to have um this study um so again
there's no timeline yet though no I I
will get the timeline and I will come
back with the other two study reports
that we have next time talk about that
and follow up with the speed hump data
after I talk with uh ogs and uh SPD a
little bit more about you know if there
there's what I said before which is the
issue is that this is a very large topic
and once we start down the road it's
going to get harder so what it is is how
did we select Dwayne Avenue we used
engineering judgment to select Dwayne
Avenue we put the temporary on Dwayne
Avenue and we did a study on Dwayne
Avenue but now that that recommendation
then is that yes it was effective and
yes we can put permanent then what is
preventing everyone in the city from
asking for Speed HS and we just can't
have a speed hump on every residential
Road in the city so that's where we have
to get back and follow city of
Rochester's guidelines and start looking
at guidelines of our own which require
petitions similar to our sidewalk
assessment which require action because
we have to put some roadblocks up to how
we are deciding where to put speed HPS
and barriers and investing in this
because it it if we don't we're just
opening it up to I think I want and I
really don't want to go down something
where we have that um so that's that's
part of the reason of
dragging
that's
so I think it's a positive step forward
what you're doing sitting on this for a
long time and at this going I ask you
know our residents just please to be
patient until this comes through and I
think it'd be beneficial to the entire
city I do I know it's been a long
time this is definitely moving forward
we're getting closer there you go we're
getting closer to the end of something I
don't know if people are going to like
where the end goes that's why I'm trying
to you know I'm trying to PA you know we you know 25 mph hopefully is where
everybody wants 25 mil hour We're
putting speed HPS for both people want
them or not want them it's just this is
a larger conversation I just don't want
it to happen spaic I have not gotten
anything ever really in writing or a
petition yet for a speed hun you just
did it engineering this was a good
location to see if it was effective if
it is effective then we have to come up
with some kind of guideline to how we
start implementing and that's what we
have to work on and that's going to take
time to put together so I know we
haven't gotten a petition but we've
certainly got a lot of f yeah that's so
are going to have to I I get request all
that yeah but I'm talking about the
council okay coming to the council that
we had like certain areas said here here so we have gotten request so that
my point is there's the place we can
start if they're going to be you know
looking at petition I get that can't to
everything but you
know if you want we could I guess I
don't think so but but then the other
part of this is wait one second the
other thing is that we um there were
accidents and Mr talked about this one
of the ways that he was determining this
was where there were accidents and that
was part of it as well so those are
determining factors from based on he
what he told
us M Patrick yeah I I guess I want to
say um that I I mean I feel residents
haven't actually been patient I think
that maybe they've been patient but
they're not patient any longer um I
think it is um definitely the number one
thing I hear about um several times a
week
and um you know it really has gone on
and I'm not I'm not criticizing you guys
um but it has gone on now for you know a
long time um and um I I just feel like
it's one of those things that this
Council has to make a decision and take
some action on um because we've been
talking about studies and we've had
studies and I mean we have Federal data
um we're seeing what's happening in in
other places but it's FR I guess I'm
expressing my frustration right now as
well which I think is um because I'm
hearing the frustration of so many
residents um as well so um I
mean I I I guess I'm getting at the end
of um coming up with Solutions um here I
think we have a solution it's just a
matter of being able to implement Mr
yeah that's I was going to addressing I
think we need to give Mr Wen the
opportunity to do the traffic study and
come back to us with a comprehensive
plan yes we had traffic study but it was
on Kings Road only I I don't recall that
we had any traffic study across the city
or paral um City you know Citywide or
things like that so there was only one
study that was done on Kings Road so we
just need to give him the opportunity
come back to us and I think we're going
to move forward with the recommendation
that coming from his
office Mr so I was just say
I Patrick I share the
to F this frustration but you know
definitely want to um get get some
movement out of this I feel like you
know we have been talked about it for a
while and some things are problems are
that complicated that we have to do
diligence I'm all for that I just want
ear I heard you say that we had only two
speed hunts and then you said something
about speed tables that we did at those
they're the same we have two speed T
okay okay okay I again what what I'm
trying to accomplish here is to say like
you know it seems like there that
there's going to be some time before we
can implement this fully so what are the
more graduated measures that we can take
in the meantime so that's what kind of
I'm
open up to anyone to kind of say like oh
you know as we do the study these are
some of the things we could do to kind
of meet the needs of residents in
between tun time and if there are
something like that then I really to
hear them and if they're not in between
now and the time that you come back
maybe that's something that we all start
to kind of collect
I'm sorry one more comment because I do
think that um we've seen data um that
was presented to us um actually in our
neighborhood um on the Plaza um in
streets sort of above
yours from Mr fucho we we heard about um
the volume of accidents I I want to say
like the plaza and you know Regent or
Dean um we've also um seen the data on
uh Rugby Road um um and I think we might
have seen some data on Brandy Wine as
well this is just over the last few
years but um I think the other piece of
it is that there are the there is the
ability to just pull the data on um a week for example and I would
thank Mr Collins for sharing this with
me I think last week um but you know we
can pull speeding data for a week in a
certain area and see even at what times
what what the speeds are that cars are
going so I I guess we don't have to do
like major study I mean we can just pull
data that we already have um I don't
know if it comes from the police
department or if it comes from um our
signal we sign boards that have the
ability to do that um so I understand
what you're saying however Mr Mr um W is
talking about something more
comprehensive so I I don't know if we
peil it or we just let that this
comprehensive thing happen and then we
get this done I won't say once for all
because things change but get this done
in the most effective way to be able to
implement
it so Mr Farley during the whole process
is going to take some time to get the
traffic study in place can we consider
buying some more speed home and to help
with certain location across the the
city to help reduce the
speed is that something you willing to
inter I will buy as many speed tables as
you would like the issue is I do not
install the speed tables I do not remove
the speed tables so it is a labor we do
have some issues sometimes when it comes
to that so if we would like to buy a
dozen speed tables and put them
throughout the city I'm not putting them
in I'm perfectly fine I'm just saying
they are it is a process to put them in
uh we do like to try to leave them in
for a little bit of time because um
they're they are you know it's it's a
big jigsa so we can do it um and and if
we had some solid locations that we like
to put them in that's that's fine I mean
that's why we have City staff so well I
guess that's my my side of it is we can put them in wherever we're
requested it's just it is labor
intensive and there's a cost there is a
cost need time for ordering I can find
that uh um I I don't think it's too
absorbent because they're they modular
sections and you make the section as big
or small as you want so I can talk with
them about getting some more um we did
talk about putting some on Rugby um we
did talk about putting some on Kings um
I hadn't heard of the plaza but that I
can understand up there by the plaza
there's a kind of a curve and there
there's an area there that I believe has
some issues so we can look at things
like
that but once again that just how they
go in is that's kind of my my little is
how how pick so that it's not just the
table coming to me and saying I think we
should put them
there we can uh we can consider that and
just to add in terms of the traffic
study Mr May our Smart City camera would
that be helpful in terms of this study
that we pull out out from the Smart City
camera yes that's the information you
got that's where we're getting that from
it's far more detailed and what's
available on
the
speed so we are getting a lot of data
from that yes okay that's where we got
the data for for kings and rugby and
yes so um so if we let's say we order
whatever number the number of speed
tables um what would you recommendation
me in terms of how determining along
with an that inash information would you
have a recommendation in terms of
could I put something together of course
yeah I have some ideas of my head based
off of just everything you said working
with with SPD Brian Bri just just kind
of got through a while ago but yes we
could find locations that we think they
would be
advantageous as I said we Dwayne Avenue
was a great one Rugby Road was a very
good one put there are locations to put
them and there are locations to to
not and and so so if we're talking how
long would you be able to come back and
say these plac and are how
many a couple of Cycles because next
time I'm already coming back with
something so then we can maybe make a
little weekly Ted talk about traffic and
safety okay listen I don't think it's a
bad thing to know that people move and take consideration what's going on
so I'm saying that thank you in two
seconds and I wasn't suggesting that we
needed it on the Plaza that was just Mr
Lucho had made that was one of the
studies that he had presented to us
um I I don't remember when I mean in the
last couple years but um I wasn't saying
we have to do it there I'm open to
whatever you all find in terms of the
data and not to be cynical but that's
just my nature a lot of times is that
reducing it is a number so just mentally
be prepared for reducing it to 25 not
curing the city's ills absolutely okay
because it's to me it sounds like we're
really wishing here a lot that 25 is
going to do a lot for everyone I well I
don't think it's any magic thing go
ahead and well no but I mean I guess I
could say that there cities across the
country and across the state that have
been lowering it to 25 and we have
research studies that are showing what
going to 25 does do so it wasn't a
random number that we picked and I also
want to say that before I started any of
these conversations uh a couple years
ago I did talk with Chief Clifford who
did think that um you know obviously
exactly as you said I mean the
enforcement is going to stay the same so
um I mean probably people will go 30 um
if we lower the speed limit to 25 um so
you know there's a there's a range
of think about your own driving habits
but I mean there's a range of of speeds
that people will go so even you know if
we lower it it's going to increase
safety because even if they're going
above 25 hopefully they won't be going
above 30 which is what they're doing now
so um right I mean does that make sense
certainly yeah there's a range of
compliance and lowering it lowers that
range so so Council um am I here are we
saying that we are in favor of ordering
some speed humps some addition speed
tables is that what you're saying
because that's I'm I'm suggesting that
that's what be I'm suggesting that's an
actionable step that we can take in the
meantime because I think to Mr W's Point
reducing the speed liment is not a cure
all it's probably going to take multi
different you know multi approach to get
people to be in compliance and that
seems like one of them so that seems
like that's something that's within our
capability and possibilities to doing so
is that something that we should
entertaining doing as soon as possible
as we do these other things that's what
I'm
suggesting that's that's what I was
suggesting that we look at that in the
meantime we're completing the study but
at the same time we're not dropping the
ball we're going ahead look at the cost
and look how much we can buy and put it
out um into the hot spot throughout the
city and at the same time we moving
forward with the speed U reduction and
also the enforcement and yes so what Mr
W is saying you would be able to
identify places also tell us how many
would be needed and then we would also
have to see what the budgetary impact is
and where it comes where we pay we how
we pay for as the budget so that's what
he saying he'll come back in four weeks
with do you have a question
Mr all right so all of you also um
received the uh the print of emails from
Mr um Mr Colin did you have any
questions from
that all right so we we have a t talk
next we T talk two weeks
talk thank
you something down all right all right
this is government operations this point
I like to call government operations
order we have two
items on the agenda the
first changes to the Charter C6 through
8 change operating budget deadline and
Mr
Mayor thank you Mr chairman I submitted
the proposed scenario and legislation to
the
council up to the
council comments or discussion around
that well um as I said the when we first
received the legislation the request was
that if the council did not pass the
budget in a timely manner then the
automatically revert to the mayor's
budget which um I'm not supportive of I
would be supportive of
um reverting to Prior year spending and
making amendments as we need to because
part of what the council's
responsibility is to make sure that we
that we're passing a budget and we have
some input in into what that budget
looks like and given if we just say well
if we don't pass it then automatic
becomes the mayor's budget then we have
no input in that budget uh so Mr O'Brien
said in order to do this we have to
um this has to be a referendum that's
correct and there's a timelines now just
I so could you go through the timeline
yes what I'm going to do is go through
the timeline um if you were to
the timeline is uh to September 5th is a
that's the
deadline the public hearing uh for the
city council pursu the municipal home rule law is optional but
the mayor has to have a public hearing
uh with 5 days
notice
so um looking at the council and
committee schedule going through August
and because of the schedule there's a
week
lost here um you could have a resolution
calling for a public hearing on August
12th on the
proposed on the proposed uh Charter
amendment in between that on the August
5th you do have another committee cycle
so if there's any amendments that you
wish to propose at that time we can post
it up if it's noted at the committee
then it's it could be posted up uh at
the public
hearing for the
12th and then your next committee cycle
is the 19th and then your final your
final uh committee or council meeting
for August is the 26th and that's really
the last time that you could uh uh take
action on this the reason being is that 26 their last council meeting at
the end of the month the reason being is
that the mayor has to have a public
hearing that's mandatory of on Rural law
and he has to get 5 days notice and that
5 days notice we get you to September we
get you to September 3rd the Tuesday and
then he would have the public hearing he
could act on it that day fourth is a
Tuesday to get the action of the
paperwork together and the fifth is
really the deadline to get it to the uh Board of Elections so that's the 26th
is is the date in which you would have
to
uh pass the uh Charter Amendment if you
wish to have it on the uh on the uh on
the ballot this
fall so I was reading something I looked
up um CH Amendment with within the state
of New York and so what one that you're
suggesting is is because there's three
what methods is by by initiative
referendum is that one your suggest no no this is this is a Char it's not
initiative this is being legislative
Amendment so it's a charter amendment
being the legislative process there's
also a charter amendment process if
there's a charter commission but that's
not the the case here this is a
legislative Le in other words you would
have to pass it the mayor would then
have to act upon it and upon the mayor's
approval of what you passed then that
goes before the voters fall so you're
talking about the one by legislative
action yes
go
ahead sorry I wasn't here the last I
just want to point on have we ever
considered I mean creating a charter
revise commission to Lo at the entire
Charter and to have this commission come
back with us with recommendation to make
a comprehensive change if possible um
I'm not against what we're doing one
piece of a time here
but it would be nice if we can address
the entire Charter look at updated stuff
and try to move that for if there's any
changes from us creating the revised
Charter
commission so I think that I'll give to
and I think that that would be I I like
the sound of that kind of not again not
peace fing it I think you know the issue
We R into would be this the deadline
we're talking about now we clear we
going be able to do that um this time it
seems like what you're suggesting is
again is more comprehensive let's do it
all at one time because there's multiple
places within the Char need to be
updated you're still going to be looking
at that deadline September 5th and you
can see how timec consuming this would
be if you're
taking it would take take a long time to
go through that in order then
presented before the voters if I may
have
what what do we as a council need to do
in order to create a revised Charter
commission I don't know last time was
done to put forth the voters
rejected sorry the charter commiss
commission yes and yeah the vot is
rejected was the early 2000 staff volunteers and they
think yeah so we would have to go sorry
so we would have to go to the voting to
create this
commission may the mayor the commission
but in order to create the commission to
allow you to
appoint I just the mayor would create a
commission
retion well I mean I like the idea of
the entire Charter review it's not a bad
idea um but I think in terms of this um
issue at hand um I actually um did
support at our last meeting um as
presented uh what was presented to us at
the last U meeting and a couple of
points about that I think that it holds
us more accountable also for um staying
on a timeline and I think that we would
have the opportunity we continue to have
the opportunity as the city council to
give input to the budget it is I think I U I think corfield said this at the
last meeting and I agree that it is
probably the
fundamental uh uh responsibility that we
each have um as City Council Members is
to um review and pass um a budget that's
going to meet the needs of of our city
um but I I thought that what was
presented to us was fair and reasonable
and again um I would support it in the
way that it was presented to us
um
so so um so the way it was presented is
that really in my opinion that we really
don't have to say because essentially we
could submit all the changes we wanted
but if they were changes that the mayor
was not agreeable to then they could be veto and beo the time came
then then he can do that he can do that
in our that is absolutely correct it
shows a lack of leadership on this
Council for 50 years this legislative
body has been able to go through a
budget process come up with a budget and
have it adoped in a timely manner last
year was an embarrassment it didn't
happen we made the commitment when we
voted through the budget that we would
put something before the voters to
tighten up that system I will maintain
the position today is that you can leave
everything in place if you don't adopt a
budget by November 1st I'm not going to
dance around with it that my budget
would stand that and that's what the
case law is we talked about it talked
about suing it I don't want to go
through that this is a manner that again
it works give you the budget by October
1st you have full 30 days to review it
amend it modify it adopt it by November
1st and then we implement it January 1st
well let's just be all 100% the reason
that it took so long with the budget
last year was about the ARA money where
there was money that was one to not was
not to use towards the budget but to use
for a project that was upcoming that was
the hold up with this budget because we
wanted to spend that money and we
weren't able to we wanted to spend the
2.5 million to do some things within the
budget and we weren't able to it was
being rejected because money was really
being held for a project which
ultimately got funded so that was part
of the problem so the mayor is saying
you know lack of leadership and all that
so I've been having been here for 50
years but it is also the first time in
my 12 years that that's ever happened so
it's not about the leadership that that
is here it's about that particular thing
that's the only thing that made it
different now than in the past years is
that there was aror money on the table
that wanted to be set aside for a
certain project and we wanted to use it
within the budget so that was part of
the hope so I don't anticipate that
being the case again year um and in
terms of you know having an exact like
this I'm willing to support if the um if
we pass a budget by November 1st then
the mayor can't be un willing to SP that
um and in addition to that Mr Mr O'Brien
gave us information from various Comm
municipalities about how they did what
they did but I noticed that within all
those municipalities or at least most of
them they didn't have a 4-week time
frame some of them weren't passing their
until the the 30th of November haven't
gotten on the same date that we did
which is October 1st so there were those
differences as well so it's not we're not apples and apples in
terms of the of the municipalities even
in times of the time frames of reviewing
the budget and getting it
passed so I think so the issue that um
that I saw as is presented is that
number one let's start on something that
we all agree upon I started plac where
there's some alignment and Alignment was
say that there is a whole here in the
chart there's no response to if this
situation comes up there should be
something um in the charg reflects how
we forward we all agree on that so
that's a good thing next thing to be is
that if as presented if there's a
certain timeline then once we pass a
certain timeline then the um budget
would go to the mayor's proposed budget
it's how that's how it is presented
which would mean effectively that if if
city
council and the mayor's office are not
in agreement on items on the budget then
once effectively the clock runs
out then then our decision and our our
ability to um add input to the budget is
gone and it would just go to the
proposed budget so what I really don't
think that we should do is have have
something where we can just run the
clock out and by manner by means running
clock are we compromise the checks and
balances that are put in place for the
reason that they put in place so what I
think that's something that we might
want to consider is that
if you know by any stretch your
imagination this happens again then we
would operate from the existing budget
not the not the uh uh the proposed
budget but the existing budget because
at least that's one budget that all
parties were able to agree upon to get
passed in the first place so I think
that that is Le um I think that that
would be a wise alternative for us to
consider mrri I think you have your hand
up first you still um making more notes
okay so I I have um Four Points well
Five Points because I do want to say
that one of the big holdups in last
year's budget discussions went around
the overtime for the police on the fire
um so we don't have to worry about the
aror piece this year but we are going to
need to um address the overtime again um
so I just wanted to to comment on that I
also think that I would hope that um the
mayor would be um you know kind of we'd
be in dialogue hopefully we would have
communication between the mayor and the
city council so that um as we were
discussing the changes or the revisions
that we might want to see um that there
would be some back and forth there um
and not just a blanket rejection of of
anything that we would say I think that
we would have a relationship where um
we'd be able to to think about that I
also want to suggest that we've been
receiving now the budget reports from
our finance staff and the reason that we
asked for those budget reports was so
that we would have a better handle as
city council people on the budget on an
ongoing basis um so that we don't get to
the point at which the budget is
presented to us and we you
know can't see what the history the
budget history has been over the over
the past several months although I do
want to say that I just wanted to add
this in here um something I was thinking
about when I was uh prepping for this
meeting you know I I think that rather
than getting the entire uh report uh
from Finance it might be good if we had
just a summary of here's the um you know
if any of us are on you know have
managed budgets or at our workplaces or
on Boards of directors you know
sometimes you see the highlights of you
know this number is really high this
month because of this or this month
number is really low because of that I
think might be actually better than just
us getting you know multiple Pages uh to
go through um so that's one of the other
points I wanted to make and then I think
you know again there's ways around this
in terms of you know the staff obviously
are putting in their budgets to the
mayor I think right and then they
probably argue uh or I should say
discuss um their the the various
department heads budgets um together um
again remember that we hear from our
department heads heads as well about
what their budget um what what their
needs are so maybe we think about the
scheduling of those um maybe we have
additional meetings where we hear uh
staff I know on the library board that's one of the things that we do we have additional meetings um to hear
from folks um so there's ways to make
sure that our input is is being
appreciated and listened to um as well
as um understanding the process itself
as it's going along so that's those are
the one things I wanted to
say um I agree with most of what M um
Patrick says and a few other things so
as far as
um um you know the mayor and the
department heads were very hard to try
to get U an actual budget out to us um
as far as a timeline we only have a
month okay well we meet every night
instead of once a week or twice a week
when we do if we have to meet every
night it's our responsibility to be
fiscally responsible to the residence of
this city so we want to go through this
budget and we want to get it passed I I
had no issue with going back to the
mayor's proposed budget what I have an
issue with it's using the existing
budget so oh when we go back to the
existing budget what about the rising
costs of salary Health Care Staffing
those things aren't in the in the in the
mayor's budget that he's presenting to
us so how can we go backwards we can't
I'm that's just my opinion then to um so
anyway um there there are a lot of
options that we can do meet more
frequently it's up to us to work
together to get it passed and I I and if
we don't then it resorts to his budget
and that's it so that's my statement so
I I appreciate your input on that I
think that again there's a lot that's
being said that are that are General
truths that are widely accepted by
council members I think that you know
number one it is our responsibility and
number two we do need to work together
number three there are measures that we
can take to ensure a smoother process
and I think we've acted upon those I
think that is I think that is would be
not wise of us to Bas a process that we
are entering in based on relationships
right like I don't think that I think
the reason why we have um these things
in place is is for something that can
govern our actions
because you know we are looking at last
year um there were some strain
relationships but some of us were able
to to talk and come to to good have good
conversations and good compromise and
yet still we still ended up in the place
that we were so really the point of this
is to address the fact that there that
we cannot end up in the place that we were last year based on lack of
relationships or however you know you're
um getting to that point there should be
something that says this is what we do
if this then this and my only I think we
all agree on that my only thing that I
disagree with is saying that if then
this if this then this if we just refer
to a proposed budget then we are
effectively saying that we are putting
building in a process where the clock
can be ran out not to say that that
would happen not to say that our that the mayor would do that not to say
that our council president would do that
but I'm not going to make decisions
based on people's relationships or
ability to have conversations and we can
do it in a way that says if this then
this and it voids that dependent on
people's willingness toate and I think
that that doesn't that doesn't shorten
our our accountability it doesn't extend
our timeline it does all the things that was said those generally widely
accepted truths that sound really good
but don't really um move the needle on
process
itself Mr yeah so let me address some of
the things that happened during last
year budget and I can start off for
saying that um there were lack of
communication from the
to us from us to the m I'm not going to
hold back time we we we seem to lack
that communication and I hope during the
budget at the end budget I ask that hope
that we can improve on our communication
during that process and at the same time
too we we need
to some of us need to to have that in us
that we we need to compromise last year
we lacked that some of us on the council
came here and they just dig their heel
into the sand and we're not going to
compromise we like the project and we
just focus on that without every
discussing at the table in terms of how
can we make
changes and those are the things we need
to look at because we have a budget it's
proposed budget in front of us as a
council is the most important thing that
we have as a council to do and we as a
council have an obligation to our
taxpayer last year many of us were
concerned about
taxes taxes that has burden the taxpayer
year after year and some of us were
concerned about that so that's why we
were talking about that some of us we
were talking about over time over time
we were talking about we're improving
we're increasing the higher ring in
various department where is the
accountability when it comes to the time
I would like to see that we are full
capacity in some department so more than
likely see in this budget at the end of
the year that over time we see a
reduction in over time at the same time
we're we're wrapping up Staffing so we
can have both at the same time have over
time and have full capacity Staffing and
that's something that we addressed last
year in terms of our concern and in
terms of fees and taxes taxpayer are
boring enough out there we as a council
need to help to protect them they can
actually continue to pay taxes every
year every year after year and we what
are we doing we're going to come here
we're going to throw back and we going
to say okay there's a budget proposal in
front of us let's vote for it a matter
games what it's in the budget we we need
to look at the budget as a council and
suggest changes and be ready to
compromise and to move forward and let's
have a budget so that we don't fall back
what happened last
year I think um I just want to address
the overtime issue again because
although we do have um in our budget the
ability um for full Staffing we don't
have full Staffing because we haven't
been successful necessarily at
encouraging people to come on board I
mean we've hired folks but we aren't I
don't think that we I think we have
openings in other words not to mention
that we've had illness we've had you
know retirements etc etc so the overtime
is still being used and I think that
what we're going to see is
that I think that we were presented with
realistic numbers for those overtime and
I think when we get to see what the
actuals are in a few months um they'll
match some of those overtime figures but
I guess we'll have to see
so in terms of us not like hearing I
have to tell you I really really one of
the things we talked about during the
last budget cycle was to have the um
finance department come to us with all
the information so for me short cutting
it um I'm not I would just like I I
would personally like to see like to see
all of it and they can give us the high
but have the information to go through
because that's what we talked about last
year because we have this is one month
abreviated time frankly to do what what
they presented to us for a Year's worth
of time so which is why we said we would
do it and I believe we should continue
to do that and hear all of it and in
terms of um I know it's consistently we
said we have to trust our staff and Etc
but the budget that we see is not
necessarily what the staff's presented
the staff presents their budget to the
mayor the mayor then presents the budget
with whatever changes or adjustments
made that that it comes to the council
so um it's not we're not necessar seeing
the exact budget that the staff
submitted to for that they they want
because everybody has a huge wish
friendly what they would like to see and
then that's not always oversee so I just
want to make that clear consistently
said we should take into consideration
when our staff said we don't always see
everything that they want they want yes
I I I definitely agree with them but I
do think we also had the opportunity for
staff came and did still tell us uh what
their wish list had been so although it
might not have matched what ultimately
was presented uh to us we still had that
opportunity to hear uh from department
heads um what their initial budget
requests were to that to that point then
just gives us yes but to that point then
if we
um if last year if we went to the
proposed budget and that proposed budget
might have not directly reflected
the staffs of wish if you will I think
that that's a pretty reason expectation
for any budget
however to Mr M Bar's point I mean we
can't have right this is not something
where where multiple things are going to
be true at the same time as it relates
to whether we as as council members have
um an appropriate level of um checks and
balances um through the budgetary
process so if we build in something that
that's going to say by this
date it's going to revert back to the
proposed budget when the the likely
issue why we wouldn't be able to get to
uh an agreement is because we have
strong disagreements with the proposed
budget that completely guts our ability
to make decisions and and I just think
that that will be the responsible for us
to do this C that's why that's going to
what was had already been collectively
pass with whatever amendments need to be
made um in order to make sure that we
are still operating um and doing the
city's
business and then no
sorry sorry thank you um so as far as I
mean we should really be looking at how
we increase Revenue in the city as well
I mean we're all residents here we all
pay the taxes we all pay the trash tax
we all pay city taxes school taxes it's
part of our responsibility for being
residents here our service es in this
city are half Notch 100% when you think
of our trash and our snow removal and
everything that happens here so we have
a a great City and great resources here
um but why should the city I don't want
to pay any more taxes than I pay but why
should the city as a whole have to pay
for residents um in the sense that why should we operate at a loss is what
I'm saying so
you know we need to at
times take
into consideration that Rising costs go
up salary goes up everything goes up so
I mean we can't so what we should be
looking at is how do increase our
Revenue maybe fees but again if we
increase our revenues with fees then our
residents are still paying more money so
it's it's what I'm saying is you know
I I I'm just wondering where you're
coming from Mr Mo there so no I'm not
coming from anywhere I'm just saying a
broad topic sure so you mentioned about
uh increasing Revenue right we shouldn't
look at fees only cuz if you're looking
fees we're tax and tax payers all the
time right why don't you or the council
since you're talking about come up with
some solution in terms of how do we
expand our tax base and a council we
should look at it AB I'm suggest that
you take the sphar head in that because
you're talking about expanding
increasing fees we can increasing fees
we got to look across we got to look
across the board how do we increase um
our Revenue great last budget I did
mention about I'm looking at the fees
across the fees of service across the
city I'm actually meeting with the with
the finance department and finance staff
and department head in terms of coming
up with a comprehensive fee proposal to
this Council we are hoping to have that
everything goes well next month present
to the council a comprehensive uh fee
proposal for us to review and move
forward in terms of that but to your
point we should look beyond that yes we
should talk about how we increase
um other Revenue other than um fees that
we're providing for water and garage
because that is already at to a level
what some people think it's maximum we
shouldn't be charging more so we as a
council we should get to work and look
at how we can increase our Revenue yeah
and I think it should be important to
note that this is not something as a
council we should be doing in response
to um you know how we work our way
through this legislation that's
literally our job anyway we should
always be looking at Le to increase
Revenue so again sometimes some of them
more widely understood the wisely said
truths though they sound true and they
are true might not be applicable to what
we're talking about in point is just not
either or it's a yes and so yes we
should be increasing re looking for ways
to increase Revenue in the city yes we
should be working um with the mayor's
office yes we should be in more in clear
communication um I think that you know
in my experience uh though it happened
later on in the process um you know the
mayor I know the mayor made some
concessions that in order to get um the
budget passed I'm sure he wasn't happy
of it I know that talking with some of
our my my council members get some
concessions that's the whole thing
that's the whole part of point of the
negotiation ens sure everyone did that
in good faith for the citizens of s so
we will find ourselves in that position
every year because that's our job so
again the point is that I I wouldn't
want to have anything where we end up um
where our ability to negotiate in good
faith with the mayor or amongst one
another um is compromised so Mr Mayor
thank you Mr chairman want to recap a
couple things that Financial monthly
Financial reports have been provided to
the
council every year every month since
2012 I can't remember if I did it when
first came in in
2011 so those reports you want the city
clerk reach council member individually
so getting those monthly reports is
nothing
new uh the big issue last year with the
budget I had asked the council I forget
10 days days before I submitted my
budget to you were there any comments
changes uh that you wanted there's no
response to that put the budget out your
review took and initially
cut a large amount of money out of
Public Safety
overtime I couldn't fully support that s
in The veto the budget we came back then
fully
restored the public safety largely
overtime budget and made cuts across the
board in nonpublic
safety and it didn't make sense or could
I support a shift in that where you were
taking it from the nonpublic
safety and again I've done 10 budgets to
member of the city council chaired the
finance committee for every one of those
had the opportunity to serve for a dozen
years as
mayor we've always negotiated with staff
members
and when I asked for we wanted Cuts in
public safety to go back to the police
and fire department and let them make
those changes no the council locked into
specific budget items that I couldn't
support nor could the department have to
support and then the shift in the other
direction to non-public safety just
seemed to be a play to try and get what
I thought was this Patrick's vote in the
whole thing because you were advocating
very heavily for the public safety
I want to work with you I'm proud of the
record that I have I'm proud of the
record that we have as a community and
you look at the things that have
happened other cities and areas around
here are envious of the success that we
had and it's because of the competence
that we have in the professional staff
our Partnerships with other levels of
government and businesses and Community
leaders that produce Real Results here
so I again look forward to working with
you in this budg process the proposal
that I have put forth is a charter
amendment I believe serves the needs of
us in the short term and we'll clear up
any ambiguities going forward in the
future no matter who happens to be
sitting as mayor or member of the city
council and I would appreciate your
consideration and support for that just
a followup on that does the uh Council
wish to call for a public hearing you
know resolution form for the public
hearing next week
I for the resolution P for the public he
next week for the public hearing to be
held on August
12 I
we're
otherwise well I mean otherwise we're
not going to be able to stick to this
time table in in time for this year's
budget it's not it's not going to affect
this year's budget oh that's true that's
right that's right that's right I'm
sorry the which means then you're
looking had an entire cycle through
thank you yeah
so it's you know if you're calling for
the public hearing that's the public
hearing on
12 and the public hearing based on has
what's here right before I mean it's
uh obviously it's not obligating anybody
to you know vote for the the proposal
it's just what's what's there and if
there's any Amendment to this and
uh certainly you
can perhaps deal with that on your
August 5th meeting you want to have any
amendments to
this PO getting it to the you know
posted prior to the 12th and then that
will give you one last committee cycle
we would be on
19th to tweet one last time before you
voted on the 26th that's the last that's
not having any special meetings not
adjourning any meetings I'm just giving
you you know according to your current
[Applause]
schedule public hearing we can
maintain time that's going to happen
from my colleagues on
to the thought of if that if we go for
that way then to mr's ear pointment r
that kind of larger more comprehensive
change to char that does when apply for
doing
so um so you're asking us to move for
health public hearing as what was
presented to us what was presented you
also have two committee cycles in which
to review it again you'll have the
committee cycle on the 5th you'll have
the committee cycle on the 12 looking at
the final time you can vote on is on the
26th but it's just moving the
process yes as I stated earlier I
am I'm leaning toward maybe you know the
commission a chart to
revise commission to look at the entire
chart and make recommendation including
this comment back to the budet and come
back to us and then we forward to to to amend the
other I there are a lot of things that
we should look at to change
the Char not only the budget provision
but many other
things well I just want to say I think I would support um having a public
hearing on on the 12 um for this
particular change to the Charter I also
support the idea of the mayor um you
know appointing a commission that would
do a longer term uh Charter but that's
going to take time to review the entire
Charter and come back with
recommendations Etc to change you know
if there are changes to be made um
that's going to be a pretty
comprehensive process so I think that we
miss the vote on um being able to
[Music]
get and I publicly made the commitment
you made the commitment to Farley the
council collectively made the commitment
that we would put something to the
voters this year to clear up the
ambiguity that exists within the process
played out last
year I I I would support the comparing I like the proposal I think that does
put in um some safeguards so we don't we
avoid what happened last year and moving
forward uh we have a month for us to
come together I think in watching last year it wasn't so much with the
mayor as well that the council wasn't in
agreement it give us many items um it
gives us that 30 days for us to come
together and put a budget forward for
the mayor to consider and it puts in
those safeguards that if we can't do
that it would fall back to his his
budget but that we have 30 days us as a
council and and we probably have an idea
moving up to October first about what
how things are looking so we can start
to have conversations and and you know
where are the areas that we may not be
AG agreement agreeing on and then we can
have dialogue with the mayor saying you
once you get that budget you know these
are things that we're having some
concern but begin that conversations and
then we can continue to work towards a
budget that works for everyone I think
there should be something if we don't
agree you know that's on us and then may
or take it um we couldn't come up with a plan and that works the only
thing is is like in in that 30 days
we're having those conversations like we
all come up with the plan that we agree
on you can still be it obviously right
and then we come back and we have V
override now if we come up with a budget
that we all agree to it's we should have
an agreement that we could override the
beo right I mean if we all members come
up with a budget buy the of the month
that we all agree on and it goes to the
mayor and he vetos it right then if we
all agree we could override
veto so that system is already in place
it takes five votes to over ride a veto
four to pass it five to
over so um but my recommendation is if
we pass it then the mayor cannot be it
because we've come to an agreement so
that just takes that ey off the table as
opposed to it does doesn't pass and then
it reverts to the to the mayor's budget
so that's that would be my
recommendation that if we could come
together the council agrees be able to
pass this Budget on time that that that
removes The veto Pack
Mr it's an interesting question I don't
you can't reduce the authority of an
elected official during the term of
office so you can't say or today I can
veto
[Applause]
uh attain directly to the voters just
creates a kind ofed process and again
what we have is a fairly simple
straightforward clarification some of
the things that happened last year that
left us in limbo and again I would ask
the council's support to move forward
with this uh you do the public
hearing if there's comments one way or
the other you have to take those into
consideration but I do not believe there
will be any overwhelming public push
back from the scenario that I've put
forth for your
consideration and I would just also
caution as a that these type of changes
that we're talking about that we're
making this is not necessarily um just
impacting
um you know or based on the Dynamics or
the people that are in seats now we have
to be forward thinking around what are
the appropriate checks and balances to
operate as as the government City's
connected again that's why the the
conversations around what what happened
last year I think that the thought has
to be not just about what happened last
year but what happened last year was
that we saw oh that there's something
there's an adjustment that needs to be
made not just based on what happened
last year but what possibly could happen
moving forward in the city is connected
so we have to make our decisions based
on that not not based on the person
who's in U that set seat right now but
based on what's best for checks and
Balan Tove for people
s well the mayor says that know we can't
take away his how however I I feel like
this particular um the way that this
Charter revision amendment is being put
forward essentially takes away the power
or the the power and I think it our
level of responsibility that we commit
to for the council so absolutely so so it sounds like what we're saying is
that is that we all agree that something
needs to be done and we can do something
however
the point of of disagreement will be what happens
with the um what's the next step if we
get to the point we don't make that bu
so if if there's not agreed to F bu so
again what I'm suggesting is that we
come up with something that would say
that we would go with the existing
budget and amend based on on on
inflation and and
cost cost of Life increases I think that would cover
um the the rising expenses that you're
talking about and it still will be a
budget that was agreed upon by a body at
that at that time it wouldn't just be a
matter of of the clock running out and
then once the clock's R 12 you have no
um no say so and you can go back to the
original proposed budget that likely
would be the reason why you had to disre
to be done I just think that that that
doesn't look down for that doesn't sound
wise to
me so am I right this is just calling
for a public hear call for for a public
hearing only okay we have two months if
we want to add or subtract something to
it but whether we do or don't it's going
out to the to the to the city is
connected to the
voters let them be the final
charge but the public hearing is on what
we present correct so I'm saying to you
I'm not agreeing with that to present
that that's what I'm saying to you AG to
present that I understand but you're
saying just put it out there because
it's a public hearing and I'm saying the
public hearing says public this is what
we're presenting to you we would like
your input on that and I'm saying to you
that I am not in agreement with what is
being presented for the public here have
you come up with something that I gave
what but the mayor said it's it's not
acceptable I haven't seen anything from
you that in the package
today yes no in this no just the only
thing that we had was from the last time
is just in this discussion
[Applause]
I guess um I I would
have with respect to everyone that's
giving input here but um I think
that we
have we have folks that are going to
present to us a budget I mean I guess I
don't feel like we should be just
looking at the current budget I mean
they are going to look at the current
budget I guess where here
the the staff and the mayor will be
using the budget for 2024 right which I
think is what you're suggesting would be
what we would revert back to if it could
come to agreement but they will be
looking at inre right no I get that but
I I guess I would say that it's my guess
um that the mayor and the department
heads will be using that and will be
making the appropriate cost of building
adjustments and the adjustments for the
raises and Etc on the 2024 budget to
begin with I mean I think that's what
that would be part of platform that they
would that they would have to
also start from when they are uh looking
at the 2025 budget so you know I think
that's just part of the process of
planning a budget um that they would
themselves be doing that and it would be
part of the 2025 budget as presented by
the
mayor just
I was going to say yes I am some of that
and yes so yes and so yes I'm sure that
that's part of the calculations that would be made
however if for referencing um last year
it wasn't just part of those
calculations that were being made that
was some of the points again it was it
was aror money um and there so there
were some unique circumstances which I
think in unique circumstances you can
find yourself in new situation I don't
know what the future holds but had there
been something in the charter that we
could refer back to it would have
increased our likelihood to not going
through as much as what we can through
in order to get what we have to get so
my thing is yes I believe again that
there needs to be something and to the
mayor's point we did commit to put
something um uh on the ballot for voters
to vote on and my point is that I agree
with that I just don't I I don't agree
with that one piece of it and I think
that that really limits checks and
balances and our our our our respons
responsibility and Our obligation to um
put forth a balanced agreed upon budget
I Feel Like We can't agree upon what's
presented in front of us to say well if
you can't agree upon it make agreement
by this thing we're just going to go
with that anyway I just to me I don't
see the logic that that really limits
our our our ability to fill our schope
to
work I mean we can all not have this
conversation if we if we as a counil
decide to work together we need to
compromise we cannot come to the
discussion during the budget and we come
there we open our books and we're not
making any good faith suggestion good
faith um effort to help us to arrive at
a buet that is workable to the city to
the staff to the taxpayer we need to
change our approach when we discussing
have an open mind all this discussion
will be useless we're talking about if
we can put a good fate effort to
negotiate and to compromise and to look
out for everyone this this is like this
is useless yeah we should have a budget
we need to compromise we need to open we
need to open communication at the end
for counil member along with the mayor
was able to compromise and able to have
a budget at the
end and we were able to achieve that
four council member along the mayor so
we should give the four council member
the mayor credit at that point in time
and we were able to achieve that all of
us need to work collectively come to the
table with an open mind don't open your
book and you have no questions you're
not seeking no answer to the budget it
shows that we lack our our ability to go
through the budget and to come up with
questions and to seek answers and to
make meaningful recommendation as to how
we move forward not because we have a
budget that present to us it's a budget
it's everybody is going to ask for from
A to Z we as a council need to say no
we're not going to give you from A to Z
we're going to give you as much as we
can and at the same time we have to look
up for taxpayers so I think yes I agree
with everything that you said Mr W I
think that you know my conversations
with the mayor um towards the late hours
of of the budget process um with support
of council members they were fruitful
conversations and again I I appreciate
and appla the Mak discussions that he
did as I do um same to my colleagues um
as you all did and we got it done so but
again this
isn't uh legislation just based in that
one
scenario and you know I agree with the
compromise piece because you know what
I'm not saying is Well if we can't come
up with a budget at this date then it
refer then then the budget refers to a
budget the proposed budget of the
majority of the city council I'm not
saying that right because to me I think
that that would be completely uh
undermining the mayor's office uh
ability to negotiate and act in good
place so I'm saying that wouldn't be
good for for the council to be able to
say oh times out you just go now you
just got a Mr Mayor tough luck you just
have to go with what we're saying and it
wouldn't be good for the mayor's office
to say that to us either I don't think
that there's going to be a problem
moving forward I agree that the mayor um
he demonstrated his willingness to work
with us as a council and make
concessions I appreciate that but again
it's not just about the mayor that's
sitting in front of you right now or
whether there about their council
members sit this legislation has to be
about maintaining certain checks and
balances so I don't think that the
council should be able to make that
decision by default in just Round the
Clock and I don't think that that's
something that's Happ from the
me thank you Mr chairman just to follow
on some of your earlier comments looking
at these Charters from the other
surrounding cities they may have
different time frames as far as their
fiscal years are based Amsterdam's in
the middle of the Year others are you
know out in December but what the
commonality is is is going full
conversations here is it's a recognition
that it's not just the people in the
room at that particular time that
it's so whether it be Amsterdam or ALB
or Troy they all put this a similar
system in in the the case where the
mayor and the council could not come to
an agreement that both sides would then
have their full input into the
process if the council doesn't anything
then they they've defaulted their
position and then the mayor's position
is adopted if the mayor doesn't open
anything with the council's amended
budget then that he he has
uh vacated his his position as far
as he's waved his position he's waved
his position but the council if he does
do something the council can override
that and the council's
veto if it's
overridden be the council's budget so
it's going the back and forth each side
having their opportunity to have some
say in the
budget and each side Rec each every side
having that Authority that they
inherently have the override The
veto and but and whether you know
whether the council not doing their position uh doing anything by the
deadline or the mayor not doing anything
by the mayor's deadline um the budget
will be as amended by the council or not
acted by the council okay as the case
may be will become it become the the
budget I think each one of those looking
at each one of those some cities went
into a deeper dive in detail like the
city of troit um others more streamline
like Amsterdam and alies in the middle
but it recognizes that it's not just
people this is prospectively right this
is prospectively with a recognition each
sides part of the
process that's that's just fine
just one historical note there was one
budget that I chaired the finance
committee
that Council made changes to the mayor
didn't like the mayor vetoed it and the
council overrode it 70 adap to the
budget Mr was one of
s so
um what I suggest you know maybe call
for the public hearing because we're losing a week home for the public
hearing you're going to be back here in
a couple of weeks we on the 5th of
August for another committee meeting if
you want to mark up what's before you at
that time then we can work on that and
then upload it in time for the public
hearing and then you also have that
other committee C before
26 at this point just for the limited
Purp purpose is getting a public hearing
the public hearing will be saying for a
chart adding Charter language regarding
the deadline of the budget and then we
can we can put in what materials can be
available if if that's what you want to
do and then we could put in yes what I'm
saying is if if you want to put
additional language in for the public
prior to the public hearing you have
that
opportunity if you want to amend if you
want to amend otherwise we'll just go
with what has been presented for
you but it doesn't bind anybody one way
or the other just calling for the public
hearing at this point and if you all
want to Market Market up the proposed
legislation I'm just I'm just concerned
about the process along you know so
you're not hamstr strong at the
end so you're saying that we if you call
some
right and that the next cycle we can put
forward language for those of us who do
not with the current language that's
been been provided can put both other
language however if at that meeting the
other language isn't acceptable then
what goes to the public hearing well I
mean that's something we can discuss I
mean what I I'm just thinking out loud
here but maybe you put both items on and
have a discussion on on both
proposals as a public you know is
because we're just talking about a
charter Amendment and I'm just because
we're dealing with time frames involved
here and I'm just thinking that
maybe have both Public public hearing you put them both
onto the public hearing is that what you
just said excuse me you're saying put if
there's yeah and different language
that's proposed other than what you
provided to us through the mayor's
office right that we would then put that
other proposed language forward we could
always do it as you both sides if that's
the will something has to be the public
hearing that goes
for the enacted
legislation things that are conflicted
but see the thing is the public this is
the because the municipal home RO law
doesn't require a a mandatory public
hearing for a legislative body requires
a mandatory hearing for you which is the
pass
legislation because this is not an
acting ordinance this it's a broader
idea it's it's it's a
broader there's broader parameters I
believe that you can work with here
because this is an optional public
hearing as opposed to the mayor's
mandatory public
[Music]
hearing because when
there's Municipal home when there's a
strong mayor for County Executive
they're mandated to have a public
hearing within 5
days for the accounts for a legislative
body they can have a public heent which
you can but they're not mandated Pursuit
the law to have that public he
so what I am suggesting is to get that
input we just broaden the
scope and we have the chance on August
5th right yes right to do so
right I'm not on that committing
Entertain Entertain public
the
um I I will word it in such way such you
know Charter you know propos Charter
amendments Charter you know propos
legislation regarding Charter amendment
to
section
uh
6-8
a just make it Brader language
I think I heard the mayor say that we
couldn't have that conflicting language
is that what you stating what I I don't
know if Mr o'ri what he's thinking that
you can't have things that are
conflicted going to the voters no no I'm
not saying no it's not going to be
conflicted what I'm saying is whatever
if there's a council proposal that that
doesn't go with you the proposed that's
before us then ultimately there's only
one item that will go and be voted voted
on the 26 there's only one piece of
legislation that will go before the
Council on the 26 it's whatever you will
agree to to vote on can't have two
different
ones it's
just having information at the public
hearing you have another you have another uh committee
cycle after the public hearing and at
that point you make the final decision
what you want to vote on on the 12
the
[Music]
26 so my only comment is we're going to
pass a budget and we can't even put
something out for
a public
hearing oh you're asking that
question making a statement I mean it
just seems that you know there's some of
us that are okay with it and there's
some of us that aren't and we've been
beating around the bush for the past 30
minutes or so so let's just let's just
put it out there are we going to put it
out there for public hearing or not and
who's going to write the new um you know
request that goes out along with the
mayor that's going to go to Corporation
councel so my response to your statement
will be that what is happen happing is
us doing our due diligence and making
sure and I speak to myself is that I
want to make sure that I use the
resource that Corporation counsel to
make sure that I have a clear
understanding so I'm making inform
decision I'm not interested in beinga
around the bush but I want to make sure
any bring something forth to the public
has come from an informed space and I
think that's what the dialogue has
happened here and that's why now I'm in
support um of going move for for a
public hear based on the information
that that we receive from Corporation
Council because that informtion was just
presented to us at this point in
conversation didn't happen so that's the
point that that's where our respons but
where that other piece of legislation
come the other option to the mayor's
proposal that could come in your next
committee meeting I'm sorry you can
develop that prior committee meeting but
that would come from the
[Music]
councilor put some simple numbers to it
The Proposal that been put forth by the
council president can't come to an
agreement that it would revert to the
prior budget that everybody in theory
has agreed to might have multiple years
of contact this year if you
take the 2024 operating budget take it
into 25 using that
scenario you would then go with a
minimum of 20% tax
increase because there's a whole there
because of the arip and you know each
budget year there's a lot of
similarities a lot of uh assumptions
that we make going forward but there are
widely variant factors that come into
play and you have to rely on the staff
we given the opportunity to serve
leadership roles in the community and
the public trusts us to do the right
thing right you can't do some of these
things that are arbitrary and without
really thought out what the process and
the impact is
so again some of those things are wiely
the truth I'm sorry
Mr no absolutely no I'll put my hand up
like this thank you
so I just want to make sure I'm not
overlooking your future Mone share so to
the mayor point if we were to do that
with um well number one I think we to
start with fact understanding that this
legislation won't impact this budget
year so any numbers that are kind of
drawn based on this budget year really
would be relevant because no matter
which way this happens it's not going to
impact our upcoming budget here again so
we be looking forward but I do
appreciate you know that the opinion of
like how things can be Wily vared so I
guess my again the question would be
um what other uh what we should start
thinking about what are the other main
pieces of the formula that we might want
to consider putting in to say it can
look like this based on um just the
points that you
raing like like as I said before we were
using examples from other municipalities
and I was kind of surprised to read that
those municipalities have a much longer
time frame to deliberate over the budet
two months as opposed to one so I think
that's a consideration get more time for
conversation I heard the meeting every
night that's probably not conceivable
for everyone to just meet every single
night based on our other
responsibilities um but given a longer
time frame
um that's fine and the mayor stated that
you know that would be that just you
know be flawed uh to go back to the
other budget but in case I hadn't stated
it if we would consider like if there's
salary increases and those basic
increases then we could just we could
have those those things happen we could
write that into it um but I have to you
know how many times I can say I just
don't believe that just refering just
reverting back to the because we can't
agree to a budget reverting back to the
Amer budget I don't think that that is
the best way to move forward in terms of
a council working together to come up
with a a budget and there just if it's
not if the mayor is saying that you
cannot um take away his veto power then there has and and I'm saying that I
don't feel like 100% of like if the
clock runs down becomes budget then
somewhere in the middle then we should
be able to come to a place that we can
come to an agreement where this is what
it is it's not all of this it's not all
that and once again it sort of brings us
back to the whole deliberation around
like like when we deliberating on the
budget everybody can't have everything
they're asking for but where can we come
to a happy medium that says okay we're
both satisfied with this and this is how
we can move forward and I think that's
where we need to get regarding this
piece of legislation that we move
forward with to present to the
voters president again the opposite of
what's being presented would be a SLE if
we can't get into that point of
agreement and whatever the city council
says and I think that what we like to I
think that there's another formula here
and I I definitely as a chair this
community I can definitely present some
thoughts I welcome on my colle input on
there um and I will definitely present
some thoughts and I think that we can
come to a more reasonable compromise I
believe maybe not being overly
optimistic I've seen it happen before
and with the mayor's office being
talking something sessions as council
members and we got it there I think we
can do it
again Mr P so if um that happened at our
August 5th meeting are we still able to
just move forward right now with calling
for a public hearing on the 12th and
then on the 5th we would know what we
would be talking about public hearing
correct I this is just you know as a
marker you're putting that public
hearing down otherwise we would have
to the public
this budget you'll miss this vote this
election ballot we missed the ballot
this year oh so we'd push it it would be
then you'd have to talk about this next
year for the
20126 um it would affect the 2026 budget
no yes yes okay um but right now that
committee which I'm not on needs to
decide whether we going to have a public
hearing on the 12th we still have the
fifth to be able to look at other
Alternatives so when we
start we started this conversation Mr M
was talking about
entire um Charter Amendment and so I'm
guessing I'm asking where you are with
that in Char of the Char Commission in
charge of this or trying to open it's a long appro but I I I think it's it's du and I think uh we should U
set up a a charter revise commission to
look at the charter to come up a
recommendation that is my
suggestion I'm going to stick to that
okay so so you want to support um the
public hearing on this one agenda I
let me ask you this then um are you
supporting what the mayor's putting
forward period like even if we're
looking at revising the entire
thing or or do you agree with this
concept that that the the um if we don't
pass a budget that it reverts to the
budget that's been put
forth all I have got come to that
conclusion I am I think that I think I'm
pass my opinion just like everybody else
that we should uh consider this the Char
rision commission to look at that and to
look at that component to in the budget
do we go with the refer back to the
previous year or do we go with the May's
proposed budget and that will depend on
the commission recommendation to us at
that
time I have to say answer it's up to you
so my my one area of concern is that
fact that we didn't make a commitment
that we would take a look at
this and that you know that we would
want to do that
no so that that's my concern okay so if
I were so if we were to look at this
guys moving forward with this public
hearing as well as um taking the
necessary steps to form uh the
commission the charter commission would
that be agreeable to you at this point
to where we can say well you know we can
call called public hearing based on the
information that's been provided by
Corporation Council not not just
necessarily on to been proposed and then
for the commission that would be a
[Applause]
position I'm not sure that Charter
commission may be the way that you
necessarily want to go because the
charter commission um the mayor appoints
the entire Charter commission so we we
have no input in there's other ways to
approach this so with the with the
commission we have no we have no
set again I'm sorry I have to say I
think we have to start getting to a
point where we respect each other where
we try to have some level of trust where
we try to better our
communication um both among ourselves
and also with the mayor so I think that
hopefully first of all I also think it's
two separate things you got to decide
your your committee has to decide
whether we're going to do this public he
12 for this one piece and whether we
would like the mayor to appoint a
commission that would look at the
overall um Charter which is going to be
a longer process trust me that's any of
us that have ever done anything like
this right so so that's that's the thing
but I think underlying all of this is
this idea that of of trust that we need
to continue working on so I I mean I
think having public hearing
um is I think we all would like to get
the uh community's input on on this one
way or the other but again it's just if
you're not going to do it then it's just
going to push forward one more year um
so you know that's that's the simple
thing that this subcommittee has to um
talk about right now and make a
decision I'm pretty clear as to what what decisions we're making so um
again I think they're using words like
um trust and respect and I think that
that's far I can speak myself personally
I haven't demonstrated any uh lack of
trust in an individual I speaking more
to the process and I certainly have Dem
disrespect so it's just really been so
those things are said I I agree with I'm
not I'm not saying that anyone just just
for Clear St right right just for for
clearity we want to make sure that that
that's not um the spirit in which I'm
operating from and I haven't seen that
at the table this far I think that's
just something that should do
Mr M know I'm saying um all this we're
having here can go away if we come to
the table we can discuss
open-mindedly and we can have a budget
we don't need all this we can have a
budget if we come to the table ready to
work we can deliver a budget we all need
to compromise please there's no need for
this let us go into this serious budget
we have a different Council last year
unfortunately there were a lot of turmo
within ourselves
this year we are working better M thanks
to all of us are working together and
we're respecting each other and that is
a big big plus for us at this Council
here we're in 7 months and look at the
change that we made from last year to
now so I think that we just need to
approach this budget open communication
ready to be flexible and calling from
the president mayor council let's have
open dialog going into this budget and
we don't need this
we're going to have a budget that is
workable for
everyone and we can make that
happen point and whether we pass this time or not it's not going to be
this year's budget what you're saying is
what we have to do um because whe whe we
do this isue or not we we can set an
example this year to say what happened
last year we all can make a commitment
and say let's not let's not make that
happen again but we need in order to do
that we need everyone to come to the
table to ready to discuss with an open
mind and ready to be flexible and ready
to compromise and move forward that's
the only way we can achieve I agree I
think we demonstrate things for the
people in this demonstrate the capacity
to do that thus far and I have faith in
our full faith in our ability to do that
moving forward um I would just add that
again this is uh this particular uh
piece of legislation isn't necessar
about what we do this year or the
following year but again it's speak
supported to the qu checks and balances
of how how we operate at the city
government I gu next year though it
would be it would be for 2025 right I'm
saying but it wouldn't
speak the the way I'm making my decision
I'm part based on just what happened
last year because we don't know what the
future has more about checks and
balances and that's where I'm trying to
I'm trying toist checks and balances no
matter who and that's so I think at this
point you
know so actually this this question is
for the May so mayor are you open to
anything other than what you've
[Music]
proposed of course I'm open to stuff but
we made the commitment there was no
action by the city
council the timeline was running so I
put forth a proposal which I think
addresses the needs to the community as
a whole in the budget process and you
are locking into it because I think in
sole remnants of the Democratic primary
for mayor last year where you don't want
the mayor which happens to be me to have
some say in it that you perceive to be
more
uh influential and it should be well let
me just um correct you there first and
foremost I've never brought the primary
however you have and you and your team
said some very ugly things and including
things and talked about myce mother but
I'm not holding that against you I think
I put that behind me in addition to that
mayor since we really want to talk about
this when I first became council
president I made it a point of every
single week almost coming to your office
to say let's have a conversation that
did not that was not reciprocal I was
consistently you rarely reach out to me
unless you had um won a piece of
legislation so um I'm not that person
things happen this is politics so I
don't have anything against you
personally I ran against you that
happens people have run against me
you've recruited people to run against
me all of those things are happening yet
I'm still here and I'm not holding that
against you so it's it's not about the
Democratic and I'm sorry that you even
brought that up because that was never
in my mind but clearly it's it's in
yours and so in in terms of the council
members I've reached out to council
members and we've had meetings and we've
had trainings together so me working
hard to make sure this Council worked
together is something once now that it's
a new and different Council because
let's just be honest there was a lot of
contention with a former council member
so it's not about fact there's remnants
of a primary it's not about that but it
is about that the council has a
responsibility is the budget and for me
to say that we automatically just revert
back to to to the budget that's
presented by the mayor does not mean
that the council has has had their done
what they should do in responsibility so
when when I talk about this it's not
about Gary mcth I'll go back to I
believe it's just ineffective leadership
that for 50 years we've been able to
work out a budget last year we did me
and you can't even move forward what is
simple legislation now that's fairly
simple and straightforward to clear up
some ambiguity that exists within the
chart I guess I would I would just offer
that to disagree isn't a isn't a
demonstration of incompetence leadership
Mr respect I think that my conversations
that I have with you again I will
highlight the fact that you were able to
make some concessions to move forward
which you thought was in the best
interest of the city and I think that
President Porterfield um as from that
same place I'm sure that there are some
things that um have happened that have
uh less left of bad taste in people's
mouths but I don't think that that is
going to um compromise our ability to do
our job here um and again my my um
disagreement is really more along the
lines of the checks and balances of how
we operate has zero to do um with uh any
other underlying things and like I said
in fact in this conversation we
highlighted multiple times I up through
conversations between we were able to um both make some concessions and get
things moving forward so that's the case
that we're operating is is there a p
proposal well the mayor The Proposal I
had that what my proposal was that if we
pass the budget then the mayor could not
beo our budget the mayor's saying that
that's not um
acceptable uh so for
me so at this point I we'll just get
down to this
is around are we accept the motion um
around calling for a public hearing
um public hearing um understanding that
I will be and as the chair this
committee I will be presenting on some
um May some alternative language for
consideration of the council um and so I
accept motion to
support public
so I have motions
okay you feel so next item on government
operation is a reminder renaming the
street of be Village Lane Luigi Lane um
community members and family members
came uh to our previous uh council
meeting and um committee meeting and
really highlighted the importance of
that happy to be a part of that want
everybody know that the public hearing
will be on
7:22 Mr chairman the council so wishes
they can put that unanimous consent even
know it's time for a Regal consideration
pass that that unanimous consent excuse
me you want you said it can go on for
unanimous cons yes so you can pass the
ordinance the same night public hearing
there's even though it's not for
original consideration you can wave that
if you so desire pass have the public
hearing and pass the so we're going back
to number one yeah yeah but that but
that doesn't require any action right
now no no so you're say no no you're all done
I'm just saying if you want to I'm just
bring it to your attention you want to
pass if we can come to an agreement that
we all right
that thank
you yes I than to thank Mr B especially
Mr Ren Schneider for the beautiful
article and look is that thank you
picking up on that putting the article
out yes okay I have no other items wait was was Mr O'Brien talking about
that it number two two no he he he was
reminding us that for item number one
that we could that that we had that
there was so some mechanisms to move
forward such as able to for the for the
Luigi he wasn't talking about no no I'm
sorry I'm I'm
sorry I thought you talking about Luigi
Lane that's what I'm talking sent to put
that ordinance
on okay call for the public hearing
the no actually actually the public
hearing you already
passed right so you've already passed it
so you can vote on that legislation it
will yes
7 Public heing public hearing is coming
up yes so you can vote on it that corre
s still no action needed right
now correct okay so with that said I
accept motion to government
operations second in favor hi thank you
I would like to call the finance
committee to order and the first item is
the 2025 annual action plan allocation
the public hearing is next Monday 700
p.m.
29 Mr Cara do you have any update for us
or we just go through the motion of
having this public hearing and then you
will update us have time okay the next
item is authorize the commission of
finance and deposit for the Consolidated
local Street and Highway Improvement
program Mr
[Music]
wallet every year in the state budget
the state sets aside um State funding
for Highway Improvement program uh we
usually get a letter we did not get a
letter this year but we did print out
the allocations out of the New York
State DOT budget and highlighted there
it is uh the annual allocations are
chips program extreme winter recovery
pave New York State touring routes and P
our pop pools um so this is just the
acceptance of the fund so that we can
put it into our accounts uh officially
and draw down it for this year's payment
program any questions comments on
this Mr W just a comment there's a lot
of Paving happening in Pleasant and I
know you have a lot to do with that so I
want to personally thank you the
resident have send many thank you a lot
of streets have been paved in the mon
and neighborhood it's a good thing and
across the city we have seen Paving
continue to see Paving happening so
thank you and thank you to all the staff
and everybody who's involved a lot of
people working hard to keep the roads up
but
y any other
comments I have a motion don't move this
second all in favor hi I any other
business for
finance motion to adjourn so move second
all in fav
hi thank you I'd like to call Border
City development and planning we have 10
items on the agenda the first one is to
the award bid contact for this connected
fire station number one Mr wall um so
what we have here is the replacement of
the existing HVAC system uh and
installation of a new generator at our
main fire station number one on beer
Avenue as uh you will see we have two
bids of a possible three um there is no
Plumbing work in this contract the
majority of it is mechanical um the
general contractor there was no bids
we're attributing that to the title of
the bid when it was on bidet saying fire
station HVAC and Generator so we put it
out and uh made sure to call a lot of
general contractors that we work with to
make sure that they're aware that there
is a general portion of it uh if you
look at the bids these were some of the
closest bids that we've ever received
with regards to first to second the bids
were extremely close um the low bidder
is the person uh the company that is are
doing our on call work so they are
familiar with the station so that makes
sense that they would be a little lower
than some um and just so you're aware
that the general this is uh different
than normal contracts where usually
you'll see a general contractor be the
highest like with the pool 90% of the
work of this project is mechanical the
general contractor will be in charge of
restoring ceiling tiles possibly uh
repairing some walls
but this is a very U small General we're
expecting the general to come in
somewhere on 250 Mark compared to the
eer which is
1.1 so um we're comfortable moving these
forward we have to move them forward now
because we don't want the bids to become
stale um we did wait one cycle to get
this all together but we do want to wait
another any questions
comments second El in favor hi thank you item number two is for the
award bid the award bidden contract for
the purchase of City connected pre-cast
contract concrete panel so
yes
sorry it's okay sorry um so what this is that as you remember we uh dedicated
some I believe ARA funding and as well
as some Sam money to the restoration of
the existing historic wallet diamonds
Park uh we previously awarded the labor
portion of this once the labor was
awarded um we wanted do this portion of
it which was the actual pre-cast
concrete panels themselves um we will be
buying an excess of 400 pre-cast
concrete panels um and capping the
entire wall the cap should uh protect
the wall for whe from weather and things
um the loan bid that we got was within
budget and is local uh they can meet our
deadline so we are looking to move
forward with this the deadline that we
put in there for seeing delivery of the
panels was September first we did talk
with the Labor uh that we that we're
looking to hire and they were okay with
that um so we're looking to just award
this and set up a system where we get a
delivery of continuous panels until the
project is
done any questions comments this second
all those in favor thank you president
ask to be talking about Paving one
question can you give us an update in
terms of the Central Parkway side mark
uh Central Park sidewalk it's out to bid
yeah and it'll be back in we believe a
week from Wednesday week from maybe two weeks from Wednesday but no
it's out to bid um and yeah one of one
of many things that is still up yeah
thank you I've been getting a lot of Pi
on no and we're we're looking to get
that done this year we did put a
deadline in it and the other thing that
I did mention to the mayor is that this
week steel is being set for the Kings
Road Bridge um so that that's exciting
to see thank you thank you for that
update um item number three the smart
grow Community Planning and
Zoning good evening city
council I am here calling for a
resolution I'm looking for the city
council to support the city of skn for
New York State smart growth Community
Planning and Zoning um Grant application
so we are in the process of doing our
comprehensive plan this grant will
support phase two of that which will
start in the summer of 2025 phase one
will start um this full 2024 which is a
community engagement the grant is the
minimum application is 75,000 we plan we
working with our consultant we estimate
that phase two will be 85,000 so that is
what we are applying for the One
Financial stipulation is that we have to
have a 10% local match which would
roughly be
8,500 so I've given the language um for
the resolutions on ask city council for
support for the this for comprehensive
so Bud for the that we have that
yes any questions I'm second those in
favor than thank you
any we got to ask so the next item is
the discussion rules of the form during
Council meetings we had this on the last
time and
um the mayor says that it's not
something that has to really be passed
through the council and the only
addition was that people would it would
just top of people knowled that they
were signing this and with signing that
they follow so just want to bring that
back that that's going to be um just
added to to
um to the rules and some people have a
misunderstanding because I got an email
stating that we were posting the rules I
think you may have all got about posting
the rules I don't remember that being
said by the Wonder is that a good
idea for some reason that that came
across to an
individual right yeah no they like post
it
[Music]
on right so we'll just go ahead and add
that the final uh items are for
executive session for sale of
property so at this time I Mo to
Executive session
second all in favor we in executive
session members of