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Would you like me to call the meeting to order at 508, long range planning committee July 8th?

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Yes. And our only item of business is 71 be rezoning project.

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And this

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so much. I have a presentation for you all. So this might take up a little bit of the meeting time,

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but I've got a lot of time before my next commission meeting.

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So I've got quite a bit for me in your

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email. Hopefully you've had time to have a look. If not, no fear. I'm going to go over all of it now.

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And then if I need to swap out of the PowerPoint at some point and bring up documents so that we can view those more closely or with more of a Zoom, please know that I'm happy to do that.

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So just a little bit of background on why we're doing this in the first place, just starting this conversation on the same page.

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We have been working on a 71-B rezoning project really since, kind of end of last year, when

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the Council reconfirmed VRS resolution that they wanted staff to pursue a project that

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we'd at least investigate or look at rezoning.

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What a lot of people think of as College Avenue, which is really College Avenue and South

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School Avenue, or the Old Highway 71-B corridor, which was in the state's possession until 2020.

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now it's ours and so this is a component project of a much larger umbrella set of projects

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that up to this point have mostly been street improvement projects and so a lot of people

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think about this as the 71 be project in itself that if you haven't been in Fayetteville

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or haven't been part of planning and public works in Fayetteville for the last 20 years this

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really started with the adoption of the Fayetteville downtown master plan which is kind of a landmark

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planning document for us. Two years later we got adoption of City Plan 2025, and so you hear us

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talk about City Plan 2040 because that's our current comprehensive plan, but City Plan 2040 was

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predated by City Plan 2025 and City Plan 2030 that began to set all of these priorities and goals in

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motion that resulted in what we have today. 2010, we got our new urban zoning districts adopted by the

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City Council. So that's when your urban thoroughfare UT zoning happens. So that's about 14 years

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old now. And that came out of the vision for on the City Plan 2025. So if you've ever wondered

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where all this stuff came from and how long this has been with us for about this long. And then we

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got the adoption of City Plan 2030 and 2011. And then in 2017, a rezoning of a portion of college avenue,

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it's the Maple Street to North Street section. You'll see it on the map is the purple coming out of

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downtown kind of northward that happened and so that's been what seven years

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now that we've had that rezoning in place and that rezoning was meant to go

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with street improvements that were made at the time to get the sidewalks in

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and the lighting in that y'all would be more familiar with today. So 2019 we did

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the 71 B corridor study given that wrapped up in final that has an entire web page

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on the city's website dedicated to it and then also city council resolution

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approving an implementation work plan. So then we start talking about bond money and a big

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amount of bond money and so some pretty substantial funding in the millions of dollars going towards

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street improvement projects. We've also been leveraging federal transportation dollars for that.

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So lots of federal money that doesn't cost us, lots of our own money as well and then you also get

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the adoption of city plan 2040. I think that was technically at the very start of 2020.

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2020 was the big year. We bring Highway 71B into our ownership and then we take

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responsibility for it and that gives us so many more options because state

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highway design standards are very different than the city of Stadeville's

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street design standards. So you go from having a right angle in a lot of

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driveways for businesses that are not very fun and you have to kind of distance

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requirements between driveways that are very different from ours and so that

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That was really the impetus to begin doing a lot of what we're talking about today, but

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then as you all know, COVID happened and so our ability to work with our community on

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these things was quite a bit hampered by that.

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And so in the meantime, you see a lot of design work for the Applebee Plan B Rolling Hills

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connection and then also the design work and then construction work for the Archvold Yel Safety

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Improvements and that's now Nelson Hackett Boulevard, but you'll see the project title

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this archivald y'all stole since that's how it was good, and what it was begun as.

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And then now in 2024, we've got our 71B Resonant Project underway, and then I understand

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that the North to Sigmore Street improvements are very close to being ready to go.

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And so what's exciting about this, I hope that that would be done before I brought the

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Resonant.

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So people can see the work, and then they could also understand why we're doing this, and

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we're still probably going to have to go first.

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And then people will see work and maybe that will be very encouraging as well.

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One thing that was really important about that corridor plan is a lot of the study work

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that was done to assess conditions.

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And I will tell you those conditions have not substantially changed because we've not

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seen a lot of reinvestment, slash redevelopment activity in the last five years.

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And so I feel fairly confident still bringing this before y'all.

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And why would we do street improvements?

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Why are we talking about investing millions of dollars?

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because look at all of these driveways that we have and all of these driveways

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are opportunities for conflicts and they mean reductions in safety for our

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pedestrians and cyclists. They also mean reductions in safety for our drivers

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and so how can we begin to address conditions that were created under a

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highway scheme and really make it into a city street and a lot of people have

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been working on this for a very long time. I have the privilege of being able to

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be in a position to talk a lot about it very publicly and also to help promote why we're making important changes

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But this is a lot of driveways on a very short stretch of roads

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This is just north to township and every blue dot is a driveway

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And I went through and checked today just to make sure I was telling you the right thing when I said this wasn't substantially changed

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And that is correct

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And so here we have township to mill sap actually have a count of these here shortly and so you can see what I mean

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But something that I thought was also really helpful to see, it's a pretty hefty plan

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document.

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There is a lot to read in that document, it's worthwhile, but just to hit some of the

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highlights behind why we would be putting these big investments in, this is an assessment.

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Again, there's not a whole lot of changes yet of existing sidewalks or sidewalks that

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are existing but need repair.

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And what's really telling are the gaps.

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the yellow areas where there's no sidewalk and then also the driveways come in

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as orange dots. And if you see how disrupted our sidewalk system is from

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Kato Springs to Rock Street and how incomplete our sidewalk system is you can

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begin to understand why people would not find this a walkable space. There are a

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lot of driveways to cross, there are places where there's not a complete

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sidewalk for you to be able to get through and so that doesn't give you a very

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great place to go. So if you want a walkable urban neighborhood, we're not set up

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for it, and believe it or not, we've got better sidewalk network on South School than we have

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between North and Township. Again, all of the yellow are gaps where we don't have sidewalk,

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and then the oranges driveways, and so you can see a huge stretch in here between Sycamore

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and Township in particular, where we're very little connected sidewalk. And so when we talk

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about that being a walkable urban neighborhood, we don't even have the infrastructure for that

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to be available to folks. And so that's what we're doing. We're building that infrastructure.

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We're about to get underway on that. And then it doesn't get much better, unfortunately,

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between township and Nilsap. So we're going to make a walkable urban corridor. And that's why we

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want to bring some rezoning in behind it to better support that being the outcome.

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I don't know if you all have had time to view the update. We had 799 responses to the survey,

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which was beyond my wildest dreams, not quite. My wildest dreams was 1,000. We got so close so between in-person engagement and online we probably had about 875 people with direct answers, but we did have way more people attend events than actually voted at events I noticed, so I think a lot of people just came to hang out with us which was really great.

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And then we had a lot of online engagement that didn't result in people submitting surveys.

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which could be for a number of reasons, but I'm still really pleased with how many people we were able to reach with this iteration.

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And so we gathered all of that input, looked at all of that input.

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I have a few different iterations of the spreadsheet, which have different versions of highlight on it.

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And so that was really important because the way that we asked the questions was really meant to get at

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Fayetteville, if you could create a zoning district, what would it look like?

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If you could look at this place and say, I want a specific set of outcomes, and I want

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to translate that to a zoning district, what would that be?

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And that's really what we tried to do, and that's your option three, that I'll go over at

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the very end.

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But we really did have to basically create their own zoning district.

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And then staff was pleasantly surprised with what Fayetteville created, so that was really

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pretty cool.

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But people had generally fairly strong one-way or the other vote patterns on this.

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So obviously not everybody agreed, nothing is a hundred percent.

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In fact, I think the closest we got was 98 percent agreement that people did not want

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storage units.

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So that was pretty solid, but much less agreement on things like drive-through restaurants where

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you have 58 percent of people saying no and 42 percent of people saying yes.

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And so some things were not quite as clear cut, but generally we looked at what is the

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majority vote on each issue, and then if you use the majority vote to craft a zoning

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district, what would that be?

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So we did, as a reminder, also ask a few other questions about travel preferences, and it

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turned out that a lot more people do drive cars than want to drive cars.

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So giving the impression at least that if people have the opportunity to bike and walk in

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those places where we don't offer them the sidewalk to do that safely, they would probably

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take that choice, especially with eBikes being so popular and much more readily available

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now.

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And then we asked a few other questions, specifically trees.

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You would think we don't really have to ask what they both thinks about trees.

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We hear about it all the time.

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We know.

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I think it's still really good to ask that question because it goes from kind of an antidote

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that you heard in public meetings to something that's a little more concrete and so I thought

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it was really important for us to try to capture that aspect of it and Melissa Evans is always

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like a really great advocate for making sure that we don't understand what people's preferences

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are and that we give them the opportunity to express that. So really good thinking on her part

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and obviously people are very supportive of seeing more trees, which is really right in line with

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what we hear a lot. So this is the current zoning. You see a lot of medium pink. You see also a lot

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of light yellow right behind it. So you have this really sharp divide between pink, not allowing

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housing and yellow only allowing housing up to 40 units per acre. And so very low density housing.

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And then we have a lot of industrial along South College or sorry, South School. And some of those

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are very specifically associated with sites that would need to have that. And some that industrial

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zoning is maybe not quite so specific for the use or not quite so specific for a large

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portion of the property and how it's used. So that gives us some kind of interesting options

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to look at as we move forward. And then the university's research park is zoned industrial.

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Even though a lot of their uses may not count as industrial be thought of as industrial but the

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university does not have to follow our zoning code because they're the state. So it gives us the

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opportunity to zone them other than they currently are with no penalty to them at this point

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in time, which is also super interesting. So if you want to see some stats on where we

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are, we're currently looking at a project area with just over 500 parcels and those are

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not equally dispersed at all between the two project sections north and south of downtown.

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So about four fifths of those are along North College and about a fifth are along South

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school. The acreage is about the same with a little higher proportion of acreage

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along south school. Those are larger properties generally. And then the bulk of

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the zone parcels are C2. And so 387 of those. And it's almost 600 acres. And so

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what's it like to rezone 600 acres of land in the middle of the city?

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We're all

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have a lot of other zoning of and so something I think it's important to point out and all kind of

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go back to when we look a little more carefully at the maps but most of the zoning that you see

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for the RO, the RSF4, the, well the rest just there aren't very many but definitely the RMF24,

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the NC and I think that RMF12 also, we have properties, they're described in the map as parcels but

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their properties that people own. And a lot of those at this point in time are split-zoned.

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So they share zoning and that may not really be something that the owner needs. And staff

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finds that kind of challenging. So say somebody comes into us and I say I want to do such and such

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with my property and maybe part of their property is zoned correctly for what they want to do but

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the rest isn't. And they may or may not be aware of that. And so I believe sometime in the last 20

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years, some of that C2 line along College Avenue along the east side in

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particular where a lot of properties are split zone C2 and RSF4, that was

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based on a kind of a buffered offset from College Avenue versus...

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This is being, like, described specifically by parcel. And so there's a lot of split zoning there that's related to a buffer distance, or, like, a set distance, then it is the actual, like, parcel configurations. And so that can cause some headaches for us. It's not that it can't be that way. Properties can be split zones, certainly, but it isn't always great when people are going to sell a property and they're trying to figure out what their entitlements are, or what is the line on which entitlements begin and end.

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And so there's a bit of zoning cleanup that staff is interested in pursuing that is

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not the same as re-zoning for the purpose of allowing housing for the first time.

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It's like a little bit of a side quest on this effort.

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And so one of the things that I want to do is get that cleanup kind of accomplished so

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I can talk that through with y'all and why we might want to do that while we're looking

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at getting all of this updated because some of those cleanup parcels actually may not

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be best suited to going into this new zoning configuration that you all

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decide on so much as things might need to be like more fully returned to a

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lower-density residential zoning that's more in keeping with the neighborhood

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that that parcels associated with. I don't have a count on that yet I need to get

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that though.

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It's like a few dozen at least. The 32 RSF4s probably are a big

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because there's probably not that much RSA 4 that actually fronts on college.

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Well in all the parcels on my count here, all the parcels that were split send, I went with the

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majority of what that parcel was, not whether it split. And so some of those C2s are actually either

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a combination of C2 and RO where they might be a C2, RO, RSF4, those are the ones I really don't like.

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Because I guess it's really messy and like there's not a real justification for RO because it's like

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in the trees on a hillside. It's not like there's a building there and they need that entitlement

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or they're building and they're used to stay. It's just like now there's just a bunch of trees

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and this is kind of some messy remains from 70 years of zoning. Pretty offices. Yes, sure.

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Treehouse offices, only. That would be pretty awesome. So a lot of that is not even in a way that I

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could probably very accurately describe to you like what the what the percentage of split zoning is

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because I was making choices about how I categorize those.

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It is 4.3 miles in total, and the whole reason I began to look at that

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is because I wanted to know how many curb cuts per mile we had on average,

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because I started to get really interested in that

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and Commissioner Brank had asked a question about it previously,

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and just kind of wanting to assess where we were with that.

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So in our 4.3 miles, we have about, this is very loose,

204
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because it changes more quickly than anything else.

205
00:17:50,220 --> 00:17:52,460
But I think we have about 576 businesses,

206
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,720
the bulk of those together on North College

207
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,160
and you have multiple businesses per property,

208
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:59,900
but not to the extent that I thought.

209
00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:03,820
I thought we would have more businesses compared to properties

210
00:18:03,820 --> 00:18:07,660
and we don't, we just don't have about 70 more in my account.

211
00:18:08,340 --> 00:18:12,740
And then curb cuts, though, we're doing about 65 curb cuts

212
00:18:12,740 --> 00:18:15,400
a mile or one for every 81 feet,

213
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:21,660
which is not, not ideal for all of our walkers and bikers.

214
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,580
Try walking some of that, it's not fun.

215
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:25,740
You're in a bit of a ditch.

216
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:28,820
So we can put numbers to, it's not fun, right?

217
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,180
If you're in a wheelchair or a mobility assistive device,

218
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:33,320
this is a nightmare for you.

219
00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:36,580
I saw some kids biking across some of the curb cuts of their day

220
00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:39,440
just like, and they went into a ditch through a parking lot

221
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,880
and I was like, you're older than me.

222
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,160
All these urban adventures that you can have a bit of a thing.

223
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,960
How do we filter those properties when they have a business that's active?

224
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:50,760
So I'm

225
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,220
working on that actually because I get the information for multiple different

226
00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:02,280
things and I'm working on putting it all together in GIS.

227
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:09,020
So we have a layer, this is kind of funny, we have a parcel layer and so that's the properties

228
00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:09,920
that people have.

229
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:16,520
That's not very difficult but then we have business license information that has addresses

230
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,280
and parcel numbers, but it lives a little bit separately

231
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:20,200
in a separate system.

232
00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:22,400
And so if you go to get a business license,

233
00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:23,480
you're in that system.

234
00:19:25,260 --> 00:19:27,880
And all the different layers that I use to map

235
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,480
don't come out of the same system.

236
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,620
So I have to go grab that

237
00:19:30,620 --> 00:19:32,120
and I have to put it in what I'm doing.

238
00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:35,800
And then I have to, there's a different way to get

239
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,520
like more intense information about the businesses.

240
00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:40,060
I don't want to know all the specifics,

241
00:19:40,060 --> 00:19:44,040
but I need how do the city move like the two new planners?

242
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:45,760
How does the city have these?

243
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,540
You have to wait until somebody comes in to read your ballot.

244
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,980
And then you say, you can only have one curb cut.

245
00:19:51,140 --> 00:19:51,840
You've got to consolidate.

246
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,580
Well, if you have two and they want to try through.

247
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,340
And so we start on this project,

248
00:19:56,660 --> 00:19:58,260
and we go change a bunch of peoples.

249
00:19:58,660 --> 00:20:00,800
And then I have to kind of take that business listing,

250
00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:03,200
try to figure out everybody's contact information,

251
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:05,760
and then I get to go show up and say, hey,

252
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,340
remember that thing we said we're going to do?

253
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:08,100
We're doing it now.

254
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,220
I hope you remember me from two years ago.

255
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:11,840
Or it might be new people.

256
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,360
And so I'm introducing this information all over again.

257
00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:18,280
So that's kind of exciting, but it's,

258
00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:23,770
I'm just kidding, it kind of does right now.

259
00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:25,370
Oh, it's blank still here.

260
00:20:25,790 --> 00:20:25,790
I

261
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:34,680
think he always tells us about case law and everybody gets a right to a curb cut on their

262
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:35,560
frontage.

263
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,860
That's the property on or though, right?

264
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,500
It's not every business gets to have a curb cut.

265
00:20:42,780 --> 00:20:46,240
No, because the businesses are like somewhat agnostic to the property itself.

266
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:54,100
And so like the property has to, and that's why we're able to reduce people down to one

267
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:58,280
curb cut, but we can't put them in a no curb cut situation when we come through and do

268
00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:58,700
a project.

269
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:04,640
So whether we do it or whether they have to do it on their own redevelopment, typically

270
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,880
we have to maintain at least one, or they have to be allowed at least one on a redevelopment,

271
00:21:08,980 --> 00:21:15,160
but businesses don't have property under rights, and they don't have property under entitlements.

272
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:21,220
But there's still very important, and there's more of them than there are even property owners.

273
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:27,200
And so our need to communicate that successfully and to evaluate impacts is still there, especially

274
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,900
when we talk about use units.

275
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:35,120
I could not identify a single property with the homestead exemption in our project study

276
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:39,020
area, so it does not look like we have any owner occupied residential properties.

277
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,680
Any residential properties that we do have appear to be runner occupied.

278
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,860
And so that's coming out of tax information.

279
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,660
It doesn't, there could be a scenario which people are not filing their homestead exemptions.

280
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,280
I hope that's not the case because you're losing out on some savings there.

281
00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:59,920
But at least in the records nothing is coming up as being an owner occupied or homestead property.

282
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:08,440
Which is really helpful to know because that sometimes is treated a little bit differently in Arkansas than the non-homestead properties.

283
00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:15,420
And so just because this gets asked, so I thought I'd go ahead and show y'all what it

284
00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:20,340
looks like out of all those properties, 315 are Fayetteville owners.

285
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,340
So the vast majority are Fayetteville owners, 419 and other 100 are owners within Northwest

286
00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:26,760
Arkansas.

287
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,900
And then only 50 are out of state owners on the entire stretch could not identify a single

288
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:38,460
Honor of Record on South School that was outside of Arkansas, but we could identify 50

289
00:22:38,460 --> 00:22:47,060
on North College and those tend to be Texas, Missouri, Louisiana, California that generally

290
00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:50,920
closer in, but in it ended up being, I think it's well over a dozen states that represented

291
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:51,920
in ownership records.

292
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:58,860
Are they identifiable owners or some of those like REITs and things that you don't really

293
00:22:58,860 --> 00:22:59,880
know within the day?

294
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,340
Most of them are company names of some kind.

295
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,200
Like national companies that have a location here type of thing?

296
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:11,360
No, property holding companies that may not be identifiable immediately with an individual,

297
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,740
but also may not be identifiable easily with a corporation or like a well-known brand.

298
00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:23,900
And then so we have a lot of parcels, but we only have 324 unique owners currently,

299
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,700
and so

300
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:33,840
So it has a higher proportion of unique owners than North College does.

301
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:41,980
But of that unique owners, I'm guessing some of them could be LLCs that at the end of

302
00:23:41,980 --> 00:23:43,900
the day are actually owned by the same person.

303
00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:48,740
It's just they have a different legal entity that owns the property.

304
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,780
So I checked addresses just to see what the comparison was for unique addresses versus

305
00:23:53,780 --> 00:23:58,180
unique names and they're almost identical, which I did not expect.

306
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:06,720
And then if you look at it, we have a different mapping tool, so when somebody has to notify

307
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,980
for public hearing, do their notification if your staff say they didn't complete their

308
00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:13,240
notification requirement, we have a map for that.

309
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:19,160
So using that map to try to figure out every address that was possibly within this project

310
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:25,500
study area, there are 809 kind of potential occupants there.

311
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:32,000
I think the reality of occupants is much lower, but like the addresses within our system

312
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,480
that we potentially identify as somebody that we can be in communication with, the

313
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,020
email is 809.

314
00:24:39,420 --> 00:24:40,680
So it's a lot,

315
00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:48,480
this is just as many, well a little more than surveys I got, so take that

316
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:49,020
how you want.

317
00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:55,550
Here's our resounding options, and here's how I came to this.

318
00:24:55,550 --> 00:25:02,130
So the 71 B corridor plan actually already proposed using the urban thoroughfare zoning

319
00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:02,590
district.

320
00:25:03,030 --> 00:25:05,570
So what would it look like to just carry forward with that?

321
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:11,030
Now they did propose that you could use that zoning district with a bunch of different

322
00:25:11,030 --> 00:25:12,110
modifiers on it.

323
00:25:12,450 --> 00:25:16,570
So you could have urban thoroughfare 1, urban thoroughfare 2, urban thoroughfare 3, and just have different

324
00:25:16,570 --> 00:25:18,870
iterations of that based zoning district.

325
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:23,030
If you want to drive planning staff crazy, that's a great idea.

326
00:25:23,610 --> 00:25:29,430
We might lose our minds on that one, but it's an idea and I wanted to pursue that because

327
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:33,190
it's kind of the original idea of what we do and it was the original proposal.

328
00:25:34,050 --> 00:25:38,490
Second proposal or option two is going to be to use a more restrictive zoning like a

329
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:43,550
downtown general or Main Street Center to move closer to that pedestrian-oriented dense

330
00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:48,590
urban development that deprioritizes cars and that would begin to implement the Tier Center

331
00:25:48,590 --> 00:25:55,230
concept via a node and core door zoning approach and so I've got that currently mapped as two separate zoning

332
00:25:55,230 --> 00:26:00,110
districts you're not limited to it's mostly to begin to get this idea on paper because it's a lot

333
00:26:00,110 --> 00:26:05,850
easier to discuss once it's on paper than it is just a thought in my head and then third option

334
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:11,590
and the one that I'm probably currently the most excited about just because I think it's quite novel

335
00:26:12,370 --> 00:26:17,590
for Fayetteville at least is to use the survey results to form that new zoning district and demonstrate

336
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:19,850
that we were responding to public input.

337
00:26:20,550 --> 00:26:25,150
So if you want with the urban thoroughfare option, and where that originated, if you want

338
00:26:25,150 --> 00:26:30,030
to see that in the plan, it's on pages 123 and 126.

339
00:26:30,750 --> 00:26:37,010
And so it talks about, most notably, the C2 district predominant along College Avenue.

340
00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:39,850
So I'm not coming up with any of this.

341
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:43,790
I wish I could tell you that I'm the planner that thought this all up, and nobody, no, I'm

342
00:26:43,790 --> 00:26:47,350
just bringing forward something that a lot of people have worked on for a long time.

343
00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:53,450
But it says C2 doesn't provide the requisite flexibility essentially to do what we're

344
00:26:53,450 --> 00:26:57,630
trying to do with this corridor in addition to the existing form-based provisions in the

345
00:26:57,630 --> 00:26:58,310
Fayetteville UDC.

346
00:26:58,310 --> 00:27:03,790
It may not be complete enough to execute the corridor urbanism concept fully, which I thought

347
00:27:03,790 --> 00:27:04,610
was kind of interesting.

348
00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:06,810
So they talked about sub districts, etc.

349
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:11,830
But really going with this general based zone to cover the entire corridor was the suggested

350
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:17,650
approach and again that was the UT zoning and remember in this is not like brand new but it's

351
00:27:17,650 --> 00:27:22,750
new enough that we wouldn't have used it a lot back in 2017-2018 when these are being discussed.

352
00:27:23,330 --> 00:27:27,870
That zoning district would have been about seven or eight years old at the time and then this is

353
00:27:27,870 --> 00:27:31,690
something I wanted to highlight for you all because it's going to play a big role in our conversations

354
00:27:31,690 --> 00:27:36,470
about which zoning district is the right zoning district and it addresses a number of stories

355
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:42,410
specifically on page 126. The typical maximum height for buildings along the 71-B corridor

356
00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:47,510
should be three to four stories. This may increase in specially designated areas,

357
00:27:48,330 --> 00:27:52,290
and then it talks about inselected urban nodes or sites within sub-districts,

358
00:27:52,730 --> 00:27:57,870
freestanding buildings up to seven stories consistent with existing UT district standards

359
00:27:57,870 --> 00:28:02,950
may be considered for compatibility with surrounding design character and impact on residential areas.

360
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:09,810
So it's thinking about a three to four story building height along the corridor sections and then up to seven stories

361
00:28:09,810 --> 00:28:14,690
Kind of in these nodal areas what we generally refer to or have mapped as the tier centers

362
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:17,170
So if you did an urban thoroughfare

363
00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:20,390
It's already in a zoning district. It's purple

364
00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:29,150
So I put purple on the maps in the project area just to get this conversation about urban thoroughfare started and this would be

365
00:28:29,150 --> 00:28:35,270
just a complete application of a single zoning district and so everybody would

366
00:28:35,270 --> 00:28:39,450
go into having the entitlements that you do under urban thoroughfare. You could

367
00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:44,710
go up to seven stories. It doesn't reduce a lot of the uses that are allowed

368
00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:49,910
in C2 but it does add the housing options of single family, two family, three and

369
00:28:49,910 --> 00:28:55,210
four family, and multifamily. The only housing type that it wouldn't add into

370
00:28:55,210 --> 00:29:01,710
there is manufactured housing, which is usually a contentious issue is not necessarily

371
00:29:01,710 --> 00:29:07,090
a goal of this resounding to get manufactured housing back on the table, but it is something

372
00:29:07,090 --> 00:29:11,690
that I think we need to continue to think about as a potential solution, but it does tend

373
00:29:11,690 --> 00:29:13,910
to get a lot of pushback and it has for a long time.

374
00:29:13,910 --> 00:29:19,230
You can read a lot of council meeting minutes over decades that talk about that again and

375
00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:19,490
again.

376
00:29:19,490 --> 00:29:21,390
Yeah, Commissioner Brink, you have your hand up.

377
00:29:24,050 --> 00:29:26,130
Yeah, because I don't have code in front of me,

378
00:29:26,430 --> 00:29:27,530
do you know what the top of your head

379
00:29:27,530 --> 00:29:29,950
is like what defines manufactured housing?

380
00:29:30,250 --> 00:29:33,110
Is it, you know, it comes in on a trailer

381
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:34,770
or granular

382
00:29:37,460 --> 00:29:39,570
does it?

383
00:29:39,870 --> 00:29:40,030
Yes.

384
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,320
Our code uses the HUD, not

385
00:29:59,400 --> 00:29:59,980
the same thing.

386
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:27,650
It's a modular or prefab. It's a different, it's a very narrow definition of. Yeah, even a tiny home on a trailer is not necessarily a manufactured house. And then because that was incorporated into our zoning district, then districts that allow manufactured housing would specifically allow that housing type, but also you would be constrained only being allowed to use that housing type in districts that allow it.

387
00:30:27,650 --> 00:30:28,090
A

388
00:30:37,270 --> 00:30:43,610
little more complex, but I think definitely worth the conversation, and hear me out.

389
00:30:43,810 --> 00:30:47,110
I know we talked about downtown general, we have that recommended to us.

390
00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:52,630
Staff has been looking at that and decided to begin with Main Street Center for a couple

391
00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:57,330
of particular reasons, not because we don't like downtown general and not because we don't

392
00:30:57,330 --> 00:30:57,970
like the idea.

393
00:30:58,290 --> 00:31:00,710
I think it's really a very clever idea, actually.

394
00:31:01,290 --> 00:31:06,170
But when we looked at the differences between downtown general and Main Street zoning, our

395
00:31:06,170 --> 00:31:10,670
Our current planning team pointed out a few really important things to me, which I'm

396
00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:11,570
very grateful for.

397
00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:18,030
One of those is that Downtown General and Main Street Center were both initially imagined

398
00:31:18,030 --> 00:31:23,430
as and continue to be imagined as downtown specific zoning districts, and they both have

399
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:25,530
home protection requirements attached to them.

400
00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:30,550
So if you are going to be building next to a single family residence and a lot of these

401
00:31:30,550 --> 00:31:34,230
properties touch single family neighborhoods, you are going to be limited in building

402
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:36,210
high at the same way that you currently are downtown.

403
00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:42,390
And so then there's this question of, okay, will do you address home protection requirements

404
00:31:42,390 --> 00:31:47,050
and try to use one of those zoning districts outside of the downtown where that really wasn't

405
00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:53,350
imagined to be when that was adopted, or do you just say, okay, well, that is its own problem

406
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:57,270
that we'll deal with when we really get the downtown master plan and when we get to that process,

407
00:31:57,590 --> 00:32:03,690
and we'll just take a different approach to it. Knowing that, we still kind of put MSC together

408
00:32:03,690 --> 00:32:10,850
in these nodes, but one of the biggest reasons, I'm a little bit no fun sometimes, one of the

409
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:18,850
biggest reasons that I started with Main Street Center in downtown general is because when you look

410
00:32:18,850 --> 00:32:24,610
at what is allowed in C2, i.e. what's allowed on most of there and what is not allowed in downtown

411
00:32:24,610 --> 00:32:33,410
general, your entitlement reduces way more with downtown general and our city attorney has been

412
00:32:33,410 --> 00:32:40,110
consistently cautioning our council recently about reduction in property values caused by

413
00:32:40,110 --> 00:32:41,110
a loss of entitlements.

414
00:32:41,530 --> 00:32:43,990
And so I'm not saying that that conversation's not on the table.

415
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:48,890
I'm just saying staff is being a little bit cautious what we're willing to start laying

416
00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:50,690
out for that specific reason.

417
00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:53,810
Can I ask a question and I, so I don't know the answer.

418
00:32:53,810 --> 00:33:01,350
So, on the home protection, is that based on a part,

419
00:33:01,530 --> 00:33:08,610
abouting parcels, adjacent parcels, or is it X number of feet within a single family

420
00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:08,870
home?

421
00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:10,210
I think it's a buddy.

422
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,660
So, if you're, so the, so that would really wipe out a whole bunch on the quarter, all the

423
00:33:16,660 --> 00:33:23,860
areas that back up to RSF-4, even though the parcel is 20 acres and they could put it all

424
00:33:23,860 --> 00:33:27,840
up at college and have plenty because of the parcel of blood, so it would come into

425
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:28,780
my life.

426
00:33:28,780 --> 00:33:29,860
Got how many feet is it?

427
00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:30,200
Yeah.

428
00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:31,780
That may not affect it as much.

429
00:33:32,020 --> 00:33:33,980
Just the, you know, the setbacks not.

430
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,260
I thought it was a height.

431
00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:44,120
It's only the height within the feet.

432
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:45,160
Okay.

433
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,660
That was what my question was.

434
00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:47,080
It's not.

435
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,260
It doesn't affect the entire parcel.

436
00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:51,220
It's just within a certain distance.

437
00:33:51,580 --> 00:33:52,160
It does.

438
00:33:52,460 --> 00:33:52,800
Yes.

439
00:33:53,180 --> 00:33:54,480
It does affect the entire parcel.

440
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,360
So if you want to bring home production requirements with you and we worked out that that

441
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,800
really wouldn't be a big concern. If you don't want to see that evaluated more carefully

442
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,880
and more specifically, I can certainly do that, but I had forgot that that was even going

443
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,240
to apply until thankfully current planning reminded me.

444
00:34:21,380 --> 00:34:26,900
Well, it seems like my gut, I would want to look at exactly what it says, because my gut,

445
00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:33,120
when the other map, when we saw all the pink, then our butts, all the yellow, is, and when

446
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:38,240
When we have all those tiny little parcels, I would think we might want to have some type

447
00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:42,180
of home protection because we're abutting all of that single family, but the question

448
00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:48,580
is it might not be, it makes sense to be at the same that we have downtown.

449
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,240
Does that make sense?

450
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:58,820
The height, so there's a 15-foot setback, and then you would have to probably do some kind

451
00:34:58,820 --> 00:35:03,240
of buffer with your large scale, but there's also a height limitation within,

452
00:35:05,980 --> 00:35:06,440
and that may

453
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:07,380
be a...

454
00:35:07,380 --> 00:35:10,020
But that's what I would want to understand.

455
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,340
If bringing what we have for downtown forward

456
00:35:13,340 --> 00:35:15,540
is really a problem or not.

457
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:19,400
But otherwise, I think we just have to be cognizant

458
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,420
that there's a whole bunch of commercial zoning

459
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:25,540
that immediately but single family zoning

460
00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:27,840
and the ability to come in and say, yeah,

461
00:35:27,980 --> 00:35:31,800
you can go to seven stories right over this person's house

462
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:35,440
has a potential to be a giant political bomb.

463
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:41,060
Well, you don't see it in the zoning map, but the orange is effectively single-family as well

464
00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:47,980
So it's not zone single-family, it's zone RMF-24, but those are single-family neighborhoods. And so you kind of need to, you know

465
00:35:47,980 --> 00:35:51,020
It's not just the east side, it's also the west side where we have

466
00:35:51,580 --> 00:35:56,820
Single-family residential directly at budding these so that's where you lose some of that hill

467
00:35:56,820 --> 00:36:04,240
You know elevation changes that might mitigate for some of that and then get into you know areas where it's much flatter and

468
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,760
So my thinking is I would want to have a more clear understanding if exactly what the

469
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:18,860
home protection is in downtown but not to say immediately we don't want any home protection

470
00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:22,260
as we go up the corridor because I just I think we

471
00:36:24,430 --> 00:36:27,230
need to be cognizant and maybe it gets

472
00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:28,390
called something different.

473
00:36:28,990 --> 00:36:32,990
We've done something that we call the neighborhood manners which is if you're a budding

474
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:37,470
neighborhood then you have to have slightly different standards so whether or

475
00:36:37,470 --> 00:36:40,210
not it could be the same as downtown or not.

476
00:36:44,540 --> 00:36:46,440
Other things this begins to work

477
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,820
out and we when at some point need to get specific like which parcels would be

478
00:36:51,820 --> 00:36:55,940
in which zoning district if you want to do a multi-district approach and so this

479
00:36:55,940 --> 00:37:02,740
is a very rough attempt at kind of clustering those blue or what would be in

480
00:37:02,740 --> 00:37:04,620
in this kind of instance Main Street Center,

481
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,960
around areas that have been identified

482
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,460
in this growth concept map is like these nodes of density.

483
00:37:12,220 --> 00:37:17,100
But those are like beautiful, perfectly round circles

484
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:21,460
and parcels are not beautiful, perfectly round anything.

485
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,940
Typically, they're like very bizarre polygons.

486
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,960
Some straight lines and some, it's hard to follow.

487
00:37:28,940 --> 00:37:31,420
We were trying to overlay it with like a measuring tool,

488
00:37:31,420 --> 00:37:37,380
it gets really fun. I took a few liberties with this and you'll see a lot of those nose

489
00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:46,180
are shifted west because the parcels tend to pull that kind of mapping to the west either

490
00:37:46,180 --> 00:37:51,880
because of the way that they're grouped by uses or similar commercial use scales or because

491
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,520
you've got larger parcels on the west side typically than you do on the east side and so

492
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:01,920
So something to consider is like how this growth concept map gets implemented and the

493
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,560
effect that they have once zoning is applied to actual land par souls versus like in a concept

494
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,480
that's just kind of loosely drawn out.

495
00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:16,540
So it doesn't look exactly like the growth concept map because it doesn't apply exactly

496
00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:17,320
that same way.

497
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:21,500
But I think that's certainly discussions that we can have and then you start to get into

498
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:26,980
like what are like reasonable boundaries to use? Is it major streets that serve as boundaries?

499
00:38:27,420 --> 00:38:31,820
Is it you know certain types of like neighborhood street configurations that begin to serve well?

500
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:38,480
Is it like properties or is it really properties that have an opportunity or present what seems

501
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:44,180
like the best opportunity to be aggregated into larger, developing sites so that you could get some

502
00:38:44,180 --> 00:38:48,580
of those larger urban scale buildings instead of some of these smaller buildings that we currently have?

503
00:38:48,580 --> 00:38:56,040
So it takes quite a bit of, I think, imagination to think through this particular exercise.

504
00:38:56,940 --> 00:38:58,820
And then finally, I

505
00:39:00,970 --> 00:39:03,870
hope you'll notice some of what we did here.

506
00:39:06,010 --> 00:39:11,410
So if you ask Fayetteville, and I should, Jessie's not here, so I should represent this

507
00:39:11,410 --> 00:39:14,950
for her, she thinks that the new name should have corridor in it.

508
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:17,510
So rather than urban general, maybe it's urban corridor.

509
00:39:18,110 --> 00:39:19,590
I'm not opposed to that at all.

510
00:39:19,770 --> 00:39:21,570
So we have some naming to do.

511
00:39:21,570 --> 00:39:35,950
I prefer not to put that out to a survey, we certainly can, but if anybody has ideas for what you would name a new zoning district, I'm using, I might switch to urban corridor for our next meeting, but they're kind of meant to be the same thing.

512
00:39:36,730 --> 00:39:42,710
But here's what we did with it that I'm kind of excited about, and I'm really looking to hear what we all think.

513
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:49,830
We took the votes and then kind of put them together looked at what is currently allowed

514
00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:59,610
in C2 and what would it look like to add housing, made some decisions about not excluding

515
00:39:59,610 --> 00:40:04,910
some of the uses that people told us they didn't want to see, but rather looked at either

516
00:40:04,910 --> 00:40:11,290
keeping them conditional uses in a lot of instances because that does give a lot of opportunity

517
00:40:11,290 --> 00:40:15,790
to review, but how would you build this? How would you lay out your site? How would

518
00:40:15,790 --> 00:40:21,470
you provide for compatibility with surrounding uses and surrounding properties? And it gives

519
00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:25,870
people the opportunity to make a good argument to you all about why they should be allowed

520
00:40:25,870 --> 00:40:31,070
to do that thing because they can do it in a much more context-sensitive or a way that mitigates

521
00:40:31,070 --> 00:40:35,930
or minimizes some of the negative effects that we're looking to control for. And so you'll

522
00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:41,010
see rather than taking out transportation trades and services and gasoline stations and

523
00:40:41,010 --> 00:40:44,930
drive in, drive through restaurants, which we got a lot of, a lot of no votes,

524
00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:48,550
a lot of people didn't want to see that, and that seems very reasonable, but

525
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:52,550
rather than removing them completely because we do have a lot of those uses on

526
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:55,970
the court or make them conditionally used so that people can show you how they're

527
00:40:55,970 --> 00:40:59,430
going to do it better, or how they're going to do it in a way that gets us closer to

528
00:40:59,430 --> 00:41:04,090
our goals, and that still kind of keeps us in the realm of people could still do

529
00:41:04,090 --> 00:41:06,970
that, they're not completely losing an entitlement, but they are going to have to

530
00:41:06,970 --> 00:41:09,650
to do better in terms of getting us there.

531
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:11,730
And then this is where it gets really wild,

532
00:41:12,410 --> 00:41:18,130
is we looked at putting, I think this is the wrong version.

533
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:22,870
But we looked at putting single family and two family

534
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:25,630
dwellings, not as by right but as conditional uses

535
00:41:26,210 --> 00:41:27,590
in the zoning district.

536
00:41:28,030 --> 00:41:32,430
And so it turns our typical approach to housing on its head

537
00:41:32,430 --> 00:41:34,510
and says, you're going to have to make a good argument to us

538
00:41:34,510 --> 00:41:38,510
about why you're building single family and two family housing but let's say

539
00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:42,750
somebody does like a really dense development that does cluster housing

540
00:41:42,750 --> 00:41:46,690
really successfully or something else that y'all would find a really good way

541
00:41:46,690 --> 00:41:51,330
to put that type of housing along the corridor they should be giving the

542
00:41:51,330 --> 00:41:54,250
opportunity to do that right people can solve that problem probably really

543
00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:58,530
successfully but what we probably don't want is a large lot single family home

544
00:41:58,530 --> 00:42:01,870
being flopped down on here and this gives us the ability to say that's not what we're

545
00:42:01,870 --> 00:42:05,630
trying to do, and if you were going to do multi-family, you could just do it by

546
00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:13,470
right. And so that was kind of our compromise, I guess, on not wanting to say

547
00:42:13,470 --> 00:42:18,230
no to any kind of housing really, but also just not wanting to get a typical

548
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:24,590
suburban subdivision outcome in a place where that's not what the goal is. I think

549
00:42:24,590 --> 00:42:29,290
this is completely new for Fayetteville zoning code. I love it. I have a couple of

550
00:42:29,290 --> 00:42:34,190
question. Okay. That was my favorite out of all of them. I think it does. I mean, I think

551
00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:39,870
it achieves a lot of what we want to do. I'm not crazy about, you know, allowing continued

552
00:42:39,870 --> 00:42:43,650
conditionally used for the gas stations and transportation trades, but I'll also understand

553
00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:49,030
that there's probably some legal implications of not allowing it at all, and that you would

554
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:54,870
potentially be decreasing the value of this property. So I get why we did that. I love the

555
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:59,750
single-family, two-family, it's conditionally used. A couple of the questions I

556
00:42:59,750 --> 00:43:07,590
had, so on the not permitted uses, I just need a refresher on what is like

557
00:43:07,590 --> 00:43:13,270
a non-conforming versus like, so if you go and you do a mass rezoning, like,

558
00:43:13,570 --> 00:43:17,150
and there are adult live entertainment businesses and that's not permitted or

559
00:43:17,150 --> 00:43:21,830
those non-conforming uses, like those can stay, they just can't. Okay, you don't have

560
00:43:21,830 --> 00:43:24,150
I'm in and rezone, or well, I don't know.

561
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:25,950
As long as they don't close for more than six months.

562
00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:29,350
Yeah, so you can continue, you can change owners,

563
00:43:29,590 --> 00:43:30,590
you can change businesses.

564
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:32,470
You can, so somebody could close

565
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:34,750
and then another business, the exact same type

566
00:43:34,750 --> 00:43:36,850
could open up as long as they did it in six months.

567
00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:39,830
You can even expand up to a certain point.

568
00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:44,290
But you can't put new ones in where they haven't previously

569
00:43:44,290 --> 00:43:45,790
existed or been existing.

570
00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:49,810
And so the conditionally use option is basically

571
00:43:49,810 --> 00:43:54,090
what would allow you to continue to have new of that use,

572
00:43:54,270 --> 00:43:58,330
whereas not permitted would not allow you to have new of that use,

573
00:43:58,450 --> 00:44:01,230
but everybody already operating could keep going until they stop

574
00:44:01,890 --> 00:44:07,030
and kind of lose their entitlement after they're closed for six months.

575
00:44:07,370 --> 00:44:07,430
Yes.

576
00:44:08,030 --> 00:44:12,610
And then with the building height, so we have it at seven,

577
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:17,110
is there could you request a variance for a higher,

578
00:44:17,450 --> 00:44:18,770
like a taller building height?

579
00:44:19,250 --> 00:44:20,510
We should talk about that.

580
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:27,630
You really couldn't get a zoning variance for it because then it's a zoning variance on a development variance.

581
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:31,310
So it doesn't go to y'all, it goes to boredom adjustment and then you're having to make a hardship case.

582
00:44:31,650 --> 00:44:33,130
And who's going to be able to make a hardship case.

583
00:44:33,950 --> 00:44:40,030
So that's where we have a lot of staff conversation about that.

584
00:44:40,290 --> 00:44:46,690
And decided ultimately to start with, let's start with where UT is because that seems to be a good discussion point.

585
00:44:46,690 --> 00:44:52,690
But my preference is to allow even taller buildings, and I know I'm saying that

586
00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:58,130
and a lot of people would not appreciate hearing me say that based on the comments that we've received.

587
00:44:58,430 --> 00:44:59,970
I agree because I think some-

588
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:28,300
These parcels are fairly small, and if we're trying to get dense housing, they're going to have to go up. And seven stories is not that tall. And parking. Yeah, if you're going to have to do parking underneath or whatever it is. It was ground floor commercial. Exactly. You're going to have to go higher. And so I just, I would like to figure out a way to maybe allow potential. I know people, and most people who weren't in planning would develop and initially hear, you know, that increased height, and it's just alarm bells and freak out.

589
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:33,380
But like it can be done really well. I'd like to potentially see a way to allow additional height.

590
00:45:34,660 --> 00:45:38,840
I don't know how to do it because like you said it would be if it's a zoning variance.

591
00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:43,840
It's not something that we would consider. So that was my only my biggest issue there.

592
00:45:44,380 --> 00:45:50,680
And then I think my last question is like are you still you may still be trying to figure this out.

593
00:45:50,680 --> 00:46:02,140
But is the intention to go in and do mass rezoning for these parcels or is it to kind of do it, you know, individually or like, what if someone fights you on it?

594
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,080
Like, what is, you know, how is that going to?

595
00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:07,260
Good question.

596
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,780
So some that

597
00:46:12,860 --> 00:46:25,080
I'm showing here may not ultimately be rezoned because on close inspection of what it's currently zoned to, its owner is and what it's uses, we may find that there's not a good argument to rezone it.

598
00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:31,920
for a variety of reasons. But the general approach is we need to allow housing here because we need housing to go here.

599
00:46:32,860 --> 00:46:39,240
And so kind of, I think the next step is like an individualized assessment, which I've got the spreadsheet set up to do.

600
00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:46,900
I just haven't gone through each individual parcel, each individual owner, each individual business and done all that. That's my next week's project.

601
00:46:47,620 --> 00:46:53,880
And so there should be like a refined version of this that comes back to you all next month and says,

602
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,740
Okay, now that we've kind of like refined what we're looking at, here's where the

603
00:46:57,740 --> 00:47:01,260
sustaining shakeout is like who would recommend changing and then if there's

604
00:47:01,260 --> 00:47:06,520
anybody that we wouldn't for whatever reason that is. What I also need to do in

605
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,640
the next month is begin more directly contacting business and property owners and

606
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,460
saying here's what we're looking at because it's very what I don't want to do and

607
00:47:15,460 --> 00:47:18,340
what I haven't wanted to do is go to people with a vague concept and say we're

608
00:47:18,340 --> 00:47:22,260
gonna reason you and have people not have any details for that. So after this

609
00:47:22,260 --> 00:47:26,820
conversation, all the much better idea of what we may actually be looking at, how would

610
00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:27,680
that impact you?

611
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,660
If you're a drive-thru restaurant and y'all been very clear, we don't want to continue

612
00:47:31,660 --> 00:47:35,700
with drive-thru restaurants, then I need to start, you know, preparing people for the reality

613
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:40,540
that they might be looking at a recommendation that would not include their current use,

614
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,820
and they need the opportunity to be able to speak to that, right?

615
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,780
But until I know that that might be the case, that's a lot harder to communicate, so there's

616
00:47:48,780 --> 00:47:53,580
lot of communication that's happening next that gets into individually. And for everybody

617
00:47:53,580 --> 00:47:58,980
I've already met with, that's like, we're good as long as we can do this. Like, I have

618
00:47:58,980 --> 00:48:03,700
that accounted for, so I can look at, you know, kind of your general discussion and say,

619
00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:08,140
okay, well, what they're doing would be allowed in any of these options. So there's no, so

620
00:48:08,140 --> 00:48:12,600
it's like, how many properties do we have that there's no real impact because their situation

621
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,800
isn't going to change? But then how many properties do we have or there are going to be real impacts

622
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,880
to what their entitlements are compared to their use, those probably need a lot more direct

623
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,280
communication, honestly, than people who are going to need more of a heads-up, your zoning

624
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,080
is going to change, but this isn't going to materially affect you, unless your plans

625
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,880
were to do one of these things in the future that we're looking at no longer allowing.

626
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,440
So this is where that becomes, like, a friction point for you.

627
00:48:36,660 --> 00:48:41,640
And then if people don't like what this is, hopefully enough people have heard about this

628
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,780
by now, and we're still getting word out to people for the first time.

629
00:48:45,780 --> 00:48:49,500
But hopefully people have heard about this by now and they know that some things coming

630
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:53,200
so that when I approach with communication and say I want to make sure you're really

631
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,700
aware because the next step after that is you're getting a letter.

632
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,400
And so when we send out all these letters that either we're looking at rezoning your property

633
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,980
and there will be a public hearing or we're looking at rezoning a property that is close

634
00:49:04,980 --> 00:49:08,960
to you and you need the opportunity to comment so all these residential neighborhoods were

635
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,260
looking at changing the commercial entitlements that are near you do you want to let your

636
00:49:13,260 --> 00:49:18,440
thoughts be known to the planning commission and so but I would rather try to get that initial

637
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,100
hey here's what we're looking at out before people are getting official letters of the

638
00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:27,580
mail and so but that's the refining process if I'm answering your question now I know

639
00:49:27,580 --> 00:49:32,620
that was kind of broad but that's the refining process of trying to get an actual exhibit

640
00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:38,700
map that identifies individually each property and then what it is and what it will be so

641
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:43,640
that that's all very clear because what I don't want to do is go through all of this effort

642
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:50,000
and then forget a few parcels, right, miss a few parcels or and so what you all will

643
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,900
get in the next iteration is going to be a lot more kind of blown up in detail than

644
00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:57,880
this very still very general approach that you've seen illustrated for you.

645
00:49:59,300 --> 00:50:06,660
So I generally agree that option three is the best, but I have a giant caveat because you've

646
00:50:06,660 --> 00:50:10,480
It's grown out a couple of things like ground floor retail.

647
00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:12,300
Like

648
00:50:14,340 --> 00:50:19,240
about option two is that we're not saying this is one size fits hall, everything

649
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:25,220
is the same for the whole corridor because that is really scary to me that we're saying,

650
00:50:25,340 --> 00:50:30,020
okay, this is all one zone, it's all the same development standards and if we're wanting

651
00:50:30,020 --> 00:50:36,180
ground floor retail we cannot support ground floor retail through all of this area.

652
00:50:36,180 --> 00:50:44,760
So it seems like we need to have at least like two categories and whether it goes back to

653
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:50,340
the tier centers which is probably the most logical thing to say okay in the tier centers

654
00:50:50,340 --> 00:50:56,020
we want to say ground floor retail or whatever the parameters are and in the other areas

655
00:50:56,020 --> 00:51:02,860
we say you can do ground floor retail or you can do 100% residential or 100% office give

656
00:51:02,860 --> 00:51:08,620
them the flexibility to let the market decide but it just seems like this is a huge area

657
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:15,460
to say it's all the same. I think the only argument that I would make is what Britain brought

658
00:51:15,460 --> 00:51:21,440
up earlier is if you're going to start restricting parcels that already have entitlements that allow

659
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:28,460
them to do things then you're going to get sued probably. So what I'm saying is we're not basically

660
00:51:28,460 --> 00:51:33,920
they all can do retail in office, so we're not saying you can't do that, but if somebody

661
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,720
comes in and they want to be 100% residential, are we ready as the city of fate? Well, they'll

662
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:43,780
say everybody's got to build ground floor retail everywhere, because I can show you a whole

663
00:51:43,780 --> 00:51:50,040
lot of places that that is a disaster and they have empty ground floor retail space sitting there.

664
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,240
That's not what this is saying there, right? You could do all residential if you got a condition

665
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:57,040
you, right? We haven't talked about development standards at all. I guess

666
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,640
our Britain throw out. Yeah, we want to have parking. We want to have

667
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,720
ground floor regels. So in order to justify more height, yeah. But that's

668
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:09,740
the only justification I can see for going up is like, well because we're really

669
00:52:09,740 --> 00:52:12,640
not getting a lot of it in the city, right? Like the thing that we're getting

670
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,680
right now is one story office buildings and one story drive through banks.

671
00:52:15,780 --> 00:52:17,660
Right. And one story drive through restaurants. So like

672
00:52:17,660 --> 00:52:22,700
the development demand pressure for like eight story buildings doesn't exist.

673
00:52:24,540 --> 00:52:26,660
because that's like a no man's land of life.

674
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:28,940
And maybe that's it.

675
00:52:29,060 --> 00:52:31,980
Where we get some nice streets and nice street lights in there and everybody's like,

676
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:33,600
oh, we see it in their own way.

677
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,160
I'm concerned and we haven't talked about development standards all right now.

678
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:38,580
We're just talking about the land use.

679
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,980
And so that's a really big question.

680
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:48,640
If we're saying everything in here is the same no matter if you're 200 yards off of college avenue

681
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:58,780
or if you're right on the front of it, but I think option three is the best if we are paying attention.

682
00:52:59,060 --> 00:53:05,680
It could also be to the tier centers, get to go to nine stories in the other areas, go up four,

683
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:11,100
or something. It just seems like we need to have some kind of distinction that we're not trying to say,

684
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:17,220
all of this is the same. Okay, I think that's really reasonable. Yeah, so you both

685
00:53:17,220 --> 00:53:20,520
brought up like most of the things I was going to say anyway but just to clarify

686
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:25,440
a few things I really like option three or the same reason I think like doing

687
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,360
something new that covers what we want to do rather than trying to shoehorn

688
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,860
stuff that we already have is a better approach honestly to trying to do

689
00:53:33,860 --> 00:53:39,300
something make big leaps you've got to do big chances and do things as far as

690
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:41,880
the naming just to get that out of the way. I guess fine.

691
00:53:42,780 --> 00:53:45,220
I mean, urban corridor, I got a third one right.

692
00:53:45,220 --> 00:53:48,720
The main thing about urban corridor, though, is I thought of that tube, but I thought there's

693
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:52,460
also urban thoroughfare, and it basically means the same thing, and then we're like,

694
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:54,140
why do you have the tube?

695
00:53:54,340 --> 00:53:57,480
And not that it matters, but it's just kind of funny, like, you have urban corridor, you have

696
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,260
urban thoroughfare, it's, you know, so anyways, it doesn't matter, it's also fine.

697
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:02,880
What do you want to hear us talk about a lot?

698
00:54:03,020 --> 00:54:04,540
What term do you have to begin with?

699
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:05,500
I was like, what do you resonate with?

700
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:05,700
I was like, what do you resonate with?

701
00:54:05,980 --> 00:54:08,420
Uh, that's kind of negative connotative, too.

702
00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:09,020
That's right.

703
00:54:09,820 --> 00:54:10,440
It's just ironic.

704
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:11,200
How about it?

705
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:12,680
is they're like, why? Why? I don't know.

706
00:54:13,220 --> 00:54:14,660
Do you think it's very bad about that?

707
00:54:15,020 --> 00:54:16,900
Yeah, the tear center differentiation

708
00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:19,260
is something I thought about for sure of like,

709
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,560
do we want to like, collapse it down to the same zoning?

710
00:54:23,380 --> 00:54:25,100
Honestly, the more I think about it,

711
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,380
I don't think it's a big deal.

712
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:31,360
I think like, just seeing any investment of this type in this area,

713
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,480
I'm cool with along any of that quarter, honestly.

714
00:54:34,860 --> 00:54:37,220
You know, making it harder for you to do things in certain areas,

715
00:54:37,380 --> 00:54:39,200
I'd rather just see something happen.

716
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:44,420
like we can't put barriers everywhere because people need to do this and they're not going to do it for a long time

717
00:54:44,420 --> 00:54:51,160
even if we reset. So we should just kind of let it happen. That's how I think on this.

718
00:54:53,060 --> 00:54:59,940
In terms of the height, I do would like to see more height allowance, but in order to offset some of the concerns,

719
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,220
is there a way to tie it to like, you know, I know we have a downtown master plumber,

720
00:55:04,220 --> 00:55:05,800
or downtown design standards.

721
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,060
Can we have a design standards or whatever?

722
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:11,720
You know, where it's something that's tied,

723
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,140
you change the development code along with these changes

724
00:55:15,140 --> 00:55:17,260
as a single package that you push through

725
00:55:17,260 --> 00:55:19,300
so that you don't have to go through it twice.

726
00:55:19,980 --> 00:55:20,760
And they're tied somehow.

727
00:55:20,980 --> 00:55:23,160
I don't know enough about this to know how that works,

728
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,120
but like if you can have stepbacks in buildings,

729
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:27,680
it's, you know, if you go over a certain height

730
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,580
you have to step back so that you get more sunlight

731
00:55:29,580 --> 00:55:31,040
to the ground, all those kinds of things.

732
00:55:31,620 --> 00:55:36,640
I don't know how you tie it to these zoning districts, but I'd like to see that as a package

733
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,480
so that we have, we don't just do the zone, we actually say this is how we want it built.

734
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,780
And that might be rewriting the UEC, I don't know.

735
00:55:43,980 --> 00:55:47,860
I like to do the tier centers like allowing the additional height potentially in tier centers

736
00:55:47,860 --> 00:55:51,660
because those are going to be further away from residential areas and then maybe adding

737
00:55:51,660 --> 00:55:56,980
the home protection would help with some of the concerns, but I mean, I agree like the

738
00:55:56,980 --> 00:56:02,320
The more you restrict, the less we're going to get what we want and you know, I

739
00:56:03,100 --> 00:56:08,840
Generally would say let let them let the market aside, but you know, if we have to restrict it to your centers

740
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:15,740
Might be a good idea to do although because this new zoning district has what we wanted to have in the definition of it

741
00:56:15,740 --> 00:56:22,540
The market will decide but it's also in the confines of what we have allowed which is much different than just letting the market decide everything

742
00:56:22,540 --> 00:56:25,520
So I think there is a healthy balance here that I like

743
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:34,000
and I love the conditional use of options that you have because I really think that allows us to look at a lot of stuff before it happens and really get tight.

744
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:44,340
That seemed to be one of the biggest asks we've been hearing is people want to know what's happening, idea public hearing, and they want scrutiny on it.

745
00:56:44,340 --> 00:56:50,900
And so we were looking at like could you satisfy that through the conditional use process so that you're not

746
00:56:51,420 --> 00:56:57,560
Shedding people out of the option, but you're asking you have a way to ask them to do better

747
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:03,820
When the better outcome is what the community is saying if they need and not just people being able to do something

748
00:57:04,620 --> 00:57:06,400
Without that scrutiny

749
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:13,840
And I think if the development standard if there were some distinctions and the one big thing that we're all afraid of on the

750
00:57:14,340 --> 00:57:18,320
drive through the gas stations and the car washes which maybe we've got them all built

751
00:57:19,060 --> 00:57:24,340
is as you could say you know those could be excluded in the core you know the

752
00:57:24,340 --> 00:57:28,520
tear centers but then they would still could have the conditional use in other areas

753
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:34,240
I mean it seems like the ability to just say they're not going to be allowed

754
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,140
anywhere I've heard a community you said they're putting them all only allowed in

755
00:57:38,140 --> 00:57:41,340
their industrial districts which I don't know how long that's going to hold up but

756
00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:45,980
I think it's going to be a little bit of a hurdle because there's going to be business

757
00:57:45,980 --> 00:57:50,140
centers and it's your centers that are going to say you're restricting, you know, what

758
00:57:50,140 --> 00:57:52,720
I, you're decreasing the value of my property.

759
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:57,140
I think the conditional use is the best compromise and you're probably still going to get some

760
00:57:57,140 --> 00:58:03,120
pushback, but at least there's, you know, it's a compromise for us.

761
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,680
Well, as we think about, like, what is, like, it looked like to make a really big transition.

762
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:13,900
We didn't do this in a couple of years like we've been doing this for 70 years and so

763
00:58:14,460 --> 00:58:20,380
I don't know that I see this as the end-all be all so much as like this is a huge moment of transition

764
00:58:20,380 --> 00:58:25,940
To go a different direction that's gonna need a lot more transition points as we begin to make that like really big

765
00:58:25,940 --> 00:58:29,940
Shift and so like but we're also like not driving a speedboat, right?

766
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:35,520
Like you can want the speedboat around like it is split and with a cruise ship around and that's like the scale of what we're talking about

767
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:41,760
So I have a lot more confidence, our ability to, like, iteratively make these changes in these transitions as we work through this

768
00:58:42,540 --> 00:58:46,220
versus trying to quickly, like, just overturn everything.

769
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:55,700
But I think we have, and I really appreciate our planning staff so much, for making some, like, pretty bold choices to set a different course in

770
00:58:55,700 --> 00:59:00,160
kind of the way that they've cleverly thought through, just use units.

771
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:06,500
using our existing code right because if we have all these upcoming opportunities to continue to

772
00:59:06,500 --> 00:59:10,520
refine that we're going to use those that's really good because we can continue and a lot of this

773
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:17,200
is based on taking information in not just in this survey but we hear this all the time with you all

774
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:21,400
and we hear this with the council and we're constantly thinking about how can we respond what people

775
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:26,660
are asking us to do the next time we have the opportunity to make a decision on that and I think this is

776
00:59:26,660 --> 00:59:31,220
that decision point. I wonder, you know, how much, you know, if you get, let's say you get

777
00:59:31,220 --> 00:59:37,000
80% of the property owners to be like, yeah, I love this, and 20% don't. Like what's the threshold

778
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:41,300
at which, well, I guess it's up to the council, right? It is up to the council. It's like, what is the

779
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:45,940
threshold at which you go? I don't care. You know, I know you have concerns, but like we have,

780
00:59:46,060 --> 00:59:50,660
we have a majority. I don't know what that is. I guess that's not for us to decide, but we're going

781
00:59:50,660 --> 00:59:56,810
to find out. It's a reason we took a resolution to the council to go forward. Yeah, and hopefully we

782
00:59:56,810 --> 00:59:58,530
We would do this all in one thing.

783
00:59:58,790 --> 00:59:59,830
We're not trying to do it piece.

784
01:00:02,940 --> 01:00:29,420
I'm trying to think you have a patchwork quilt of weird zone, yeah. Well, in, too, you know, if we go all the way back, if you look at what's on the screen right now and it's like really vivid blue, which I didn't on purpose, because it just shows off really well. But if I back it up to what we have currently, you're looking at almost the same thing just in a different color. That's true. So there's, it's not like we're, you know, if anything,

785
01:00:29,420 --> 01:00:33,920
And what we have now is a little, like, it's a pink patchwork because it's like four different

786
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:41,640
pink zoning districts. And then it's a lot of gray in an area that doesn't have to pay attention

787
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:48,660
to our zoning anyway. Ha, ha. Let's change it. And so, yeah, you're really, you're already there,

788
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:55,560
you're just there with something that doesn't satisfy your community. The big sales page is to say,

789
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:01,480
you get more uses than you currently have. But then the thing is but wanting

790
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,520
them to have a higher bar on the quality of development.

791
01:01:05,660 --> 01:01:07,160
Have a seven-story gas station.

792
01:01:07,660 --> 01:01:09,640
No. Or a seven-story car wash.

793
01:01:09,860 --> 01:01:13,740
But I don't know if you like the little times where it's like the drive-thru restaurant

794
01:01:13,740 --> 01:01:16,880
and then the gas station and then it's going to have a cool accident.

795
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:18,860
I will tell you this.

796
01:01:19,660 --> 01:01:22,800
It was interesting. You made the people freaked out on the mini storage.

797
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:29,760
And I don't know if we have many storage to find because as you intensify what I have seen is you just say

798
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,960
You can't put the storage units on the ground floor

799
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:37,160
They can't have garage doors and people start building multi-storey internal

800
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,220
And they don't need to use it. They're very fancy. They're all in here.

801
01:01:40,220 --> 01:01:42,020
So that's where I have these storage buildings.

802
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:46,260
You got more people living in high-rise apartments and condos than they have.

803
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:50,820
They want somewhere close by that they can keep their extra stuff.

804
01:01:50,820 --> 01:01:51,700
Yep, that's true.

805
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,520
And one more question, I've got to run, is there?

806
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:58,920
So we talked a little bit about design standards.

807
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:03,120
And I saw that we would be using some current design

808
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:03,660
standards.

809
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:06,260
Is there, I don't know, this is later,

810
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,680
but is there a conversation about like mentioned,

811
01:02:10,940 --> 01:02:13,860
I mean, or redoing those design standards specifically

812
01:02:13,860 --> 01:02:17,120
for this district, like creating design standards

813
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,560
that would be specific to the district?

814
01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:24,300
So that is a conversation I want to have next month with you all like this was the like okay big picture

815
01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:29,900
Yeah, has everybody feel if if they it will create a zoning district for us like has everybody

816
01:02:30,380 --> 01:02:34,380
What's the reaction? I honestly had no idea how you were gonna react to it

817
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:39,740
I didn't think I was gonna have a very good result and then I put it all together. Thank you Donna

818
01:02:40,380 --> 01:02:42,280
in Donna spreadsheet and went I

819
01:02:43,380 --> 01:02:46,360
Think it's actually works pretty well. It needs some refining and it needs some work

820
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:56,380
but it starts off pretty well. And so what I want to get it next is the detail. And so what would it look like to do a zoning overlay to control for some of these things?

821
01:02:56,500 --> 01:03:14,120
What would it look like to do a development overlay so that we're adding those requirements on top of this like more general approach? And that way by the time we get a package together, it's considered those things, but kind of iteratively we're not trying to just like do all of this in an hour and a half and everybody's like, what would I just do?

822
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:19,060
And now you'll have, you know, a month to think about it and have some documents and then

823
01:03:19,060 --> 01:03:23,560
I'll get you all another set of documents in about two weeks that'll basically just pile

824
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:29,020
on to what we're looking at right now and see how could we implement some of what you'll

825
01:03:29,020 --> 01:03:34,940
talk about in a more nuanced way that I think would get us something really successful and ultimately

826
01:03:34,940 --> 01:03:35,800
like very urban.

827
01:03:36,420 --> 01:03:36,500
Yeah.

828
01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:43,660
So I think that's one of the things that I've been doing to you before that I think we have to address is

829
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:54,620
What the appropriate build to should be as the zero to 30 in means you end up with nothing and zero if all it is is 12 feet

830
01:03:55,620 --> 01:04:04,160
Is not enough space for people to have residential units on the ground floor of college avenue because right now, right?

831
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:09,420
it's six feet of tree planting and six foot sidewalk and then the building

832
01:04:09,420 --> 01:04:14,580
there and that's like that's a really tight pedestrian space on a big

833
01:04:14,580 --> 01:04:20,340
Hawking Road. So you want it to be something more like a distance not zero back to

834
01:04:20,340 --> 01:04:25,840
something else? Yeah I think especially if we want the ability for them to have

835
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:33,640
front yard space for residential units or whatever it's just it's a we have so much

836
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:39,400
flexibility it's like we couldn't commit what we were trying to achieve. I think that's like a problem with urban

837
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:43,500
third. If a developer came in and wanted to build something and wanted to provide,

838
01:04:45,610 --> 01:04:50,610
frontly still could with that build too. So I guess if they thought it was beneficial to selling those

839
01:04:50,610 --> 01:04:51,650
units or would

840
01:04:54,050 --> 01:04:59,110
anyway, but you want to require it. Whether they're maximizing their buildable area

841
01:04:59,110 --> 01:05:04,250
and shoving it to every edge that they want. Knowing that people weren't in any way, just because

842
01:05:04,250 --> 01:05:07,550
there's a housing grant because it's there. I mean, if you're going to do

843
01:05:07,550 --> 01:05:12,330
apartments that open right onto a street. Yeah, but that's what our first day

844
01:05:12,330 --> 01:05:16,430
that and what our current state of require. And so that's like, okay, well, do you

845
01:05:16,430 --> 01:05:19,310
tackle that through bullseye or do you tackle that through something that

846
01:05:19,310 --> 01:05:24,510
controls for that? I think we have to be cognizant. Because right now we're

847
01:05:24,510 --> 01:05:29,170
telling people when they build apartments on MLK, that all the ground floor units

848
01:05:29,170 --> 01:05:39,210
it's have to have doors and they open up on to a five or a six-lane road and it's a less

849
01:05:39,210 --> 01:05:43,490
than desirable design set up but it's what our standard for what

850
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:53,400
these

851
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:00,940
ride-aways are

852
01:06:00,940 --> 01:06:09,760
so massive today but we were told that we weren't moving the curves no no I know I just

853
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,740
think about in terms of that urban design and

854
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,630
the building adjacent to the street or or getting into

855
01:06:23,630 --> 01:06:28,110
another zoning element, which is that minimum buildable street frontage, like how much your building

856
01:06:28,110 --> 01:06:35,930
can be right up in that space. I don't know, because I get angsty about something about 150 feet

857
01:06:35,930 --> 01:06:40,990
between building. I would love to get more tree planting area in the right of way since we now own

858
01:06:40,990 --> 01:06:46,710
it, but we were told that the curb's weren't moving. And so that means if the road's going to be that

859
01:06:46,710 --> 01:06:52,210
why and someone's going to feel that zero that means you come out your front door literally 12 feet

860
01:06:52,210 --> 01:06:59,190
from people driving really fast. Yeah I'm not disagreeing with you. For me it's that that tension

861
01:06:59,190 --> 01:07:04,150
between how much right away and how much space we already got called up there. Yeah big development

862
01:07:04,150 --> 01:07:06,330
centers can go a long way and think

863
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,620
if it's if they're not serving us for this purpose we need to change

864
01:07:11,620 --> 01:07:17,870
them. Especially if it's I mean yeah anyway but I just I don't I think we just have to be very calm

865
01:07:17,870 --> 01:07:21,430
that of that and what our current standards are.

866
01:07:23,180 --> 01:07:26,540
We have some weird student housing buildings with doors

867
01:07:26,540 --> 01:07:30,100
that no human being has ever helped

868
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:36,020
me.

869
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:38,020
Thank you all very much.

870
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,440
Stay tuned for the next round,

871
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,360
which I should have in your email in about two weeks

872
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:45,800
so that you'll have it all ahead of.

873
01:07:47,790 --> 01:07:50,030
If you have ideas in the meantime, let me know.

874
01:07:50,730 --> 01:07:53,330
I'm going to also work with our communication team

875
01:07:53,330 --> 01:08:01,190
on kind of a second round of capturing feedback on this before you'll get feedback at a public

876
01:08:01,190 --> 01:08:05,630
hearing in your regular Monday night cleaning commission meetings. And I want to say next

877
01:08:05,630 --> 01:08:10,090
meeting Matthew K. Best to speak because he's been totally silent on all of this and I know he has

878
01:08:10,090 --> 01:08:10,490
opinions.

879
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:19,060
Yes, I would shut up. So I'm going to fight for it. Oh, wait.

880
01:08:28,090 --> 01:08:30,090
Why I never noticed it was written that way.