e
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that okay
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[Applause]
[Music]
order we have one item on the agenda
today that is the discussion to amend
the city code chapter 182 uh in addition
to my colleagues here tonight I just
wanted to thank um mayor m
commissioner Divine and assistant chief
ovich and Mr bar for being pres as well
so starting with the why I think we've
all campaigned in in our perspective
areas on the issue of noise just how do
we address it uh as a as an entire city
so in recognizing that just the this has
been a chronic issue for as long as I've
been on the council to understand there
was ways where we can adjust C code and
also work collaboratively with the other
agencies this uh just have a better
impact and improve the quality of life
conditions for our residents uh so
before I turn it over to uh police and
the law department for their insight and
understanding of enforcement and the
legality of hearing to the U this city
code my recommendation would be just so
everyone has a transparent understanding
of my thoughts uh it's one adjusting the
time frame in which sound repr is deemed
unreasonable So currently it is listed
at 11:00 p.m. to 6: a.m. my
recommendation is adjusting it to 9.m 9:
a.m.
11m so I'm reading
from section J and it is bullet number
two
okay and then again just for a
accountability it says between the hours
of 11:00 P.M to 6:
a.
the there occurrences of unreasonable
time unreasonable and unnecessary sound
production is like prohibited so my
recommendation is adjusting that to 9:00
p.m. to 9:00
a.m. secondly it is adjusting the
penalties so penalties for offenses
currently the initial request is the
fine should not be anything higher than
$250 my recommendation is is adjusting
first offenses to
$500 second violations to
$1,000 and then third violations
allowing the city court judge to
exercise their discretion um not to
exceed
$2,000 and then we can get more into
like the understanding of like my
reasoning for that and then finally
there is a
section in the city code that uh in the
same section J bullet one that last
paragraph it highlights to unreasonable
or unnecessary noise at any time except
for activities open to the public or to
the public benefit for which permission
has been granted by the city enity I
think that opens the door for us to have
a permanent style approach so we are not
just saying no to people having
unnecessary or excessive noise we are
saying within a certain confined
parameters and then that is something
that we can create collectively as a
council so after giving my
recommendations I would like to turn the
over to uh law enforcement department
and then following by the legal
department just to how noise complaints
are addressed currently and then if you
have any recommendations right now well
Mr chairman if I be allowed
to you the code
uh I have your thought process and some
of the things that you're putting
for we look for compliance servic not
like you want to go out and find people
you want to arrest people you want
people to be able to have a good time
enjoy their
property both the quiet perspective and
if you have music or something that's
going
on we follow up on every call that comes
in to dispatch people will say no nobody
responded unfortunately it's not
necessarily as quick as people would
like
it's a priority system that is used for
the calls coming in so they're evaluated
in terms of imediate danger to life or
property those who assigned Priority One
status and they take PR over anything
else priority two and noise complaints
are listed as priority three so it's
unfortunate
that uh the priority three calls are not
followed
up and in this timely manner as people
would like whether have we sitting here
in this tand staff or the neighbors but
at the Staffing
levels uh that's the reality of our
ability to do the respond St and I'm not
positioned to ask that we increase the
police staff or other staff
to deal with noise complaints at this
point
where get how do you get common sense
and people to act in an appropriate
manner that is sensitive to the concerns
and desires of their neighbors or the
neighborhood
and so we
do show up ask people to turn stuff down
I've been out calls
where you will have music blasting these
last turn it down they turn it down 15
minutes later Call's coming back in the
same that people have turn the noise up
uh the sound up
and how do
you might have a key to this Mr Williams
if you can legislate Common Sense you'll
be a hero here uh but it's to get that
level of uh
compliance with it so with that I
appreciate the discussion the dialogue
and I know what you like to address you
add their perspective to it
AC uh
so when uh reading over the uh city
ordinance on the noise violation section
and we talked about the 11:00 p.m. to
6:00 a.m. window um we also go by goet
point B where
um in such a manner as to create noise
that can be heard 50 feet from such
device and I know in this section
kind of refers to Motor Vehicles on a
public Highway and boat in public Waters
but also by a person on public or
private property so we utilize section B
to enforce this noise ordinance 24 hours
a day not only just in that uh window of
time that's described in in section a
um
regardless uh as the mayor stated a lot
of the times we get these calls and due
to our staffing level and and call
volume it may take us a lot longer to
arrive to deal with the situation to a
point where maybe the the source of the
noise is no longer there um we do have
the
ability If Video evidence or some other
type of
uh evidence that the noise was occurring
and that it was unreasonable to file for
a warrant um and deal with it that way
but generally the the noise has to be at
a an unreasonable level while the police
officers are there to observe it to
follow through with um you know the any
type of disciplinary action that would
come from this um how however in certain
circumstances we can file um charges for
evidence that we have that supports
those charges um that we didn't
personally Witness at the time of of the
event um there have been situations
where as the mayor stated where police
officer arrives gives a courtesy warning
for them to turn the music down and
oftentimes that suffices and people do
uh comply with those
orders there are a lot of times where
they comply in our presence and then
shortly after we leave they they turn
the music back up um we have gone
through and created I wouldn't say a
database but there are uh addresses that
have been Chic offenders of this
ordinance that it has
been a message given to to all platoon
that if you're responding to these
addresses for an issue along these lines
that they are not to be given you know
zero tolerance for those addresses
because they are chronic offenders of
this particular uh section um and that
currently any kind of um warnings or um
discretion that's been given to them in
the past has not been taken with respect
so um we're trying to to cut off issues
where one officer arrives gives a
courtesy uh warning to turn the music
down then then the issue happens again
and you have a different officer who
arrives and they didn't realize that the
first officer had just given that
warning and so now they're giving a
warning how many times can a different
officer arrive to the same place and
give a warning and what's the best way
of making sure that everybody is aware
uh that warning has been given um we do
have systems in place that should be
followed where you make notes in the
call and it kind of goes under the
premise history what we call it in our RMS system so we encourage officers
to check premise history before
responding to these calls so they can
see if warning has been given and when
was the last one um or if if the premise
is one of the ones that we spoke about
that's a chronic offender and that we
don't uh they have zero tolerance um
directive for for that
address beyond that if an officer
responds to these calls and sees that
the noise ordinance is being
violated at that point like you said
they there are uh different penalties
for each offense you know up to a third
offense where I think that was where it
maxes out um there is the ability of the
officer to remove the source of the
noise as well and I'm not sure that it's
exactly clear on if we could do that
right off the bat on the very first one
or if we have to wait until the third um
but there are situations where know you
have uh somebody was speaking to me
earlier today about a Dodge Ram pickup
truck that had
$60,000 worth
of subwoofers and speakers that took up
the entire back of the truck bed with a
hydraulic lift that makes it stand
straight up um you know in that
situation I were able to take the whole
vehicle and hold it until trial you know
create a hardship for that person but
it's also I don't know how you even play
speakers that large
in a reasonable manner I don't know if
it's possible um it's challenging um
because people have so many different
Avenues to reproduce this noise if you
take one set of speakers away and a new
set just pops up where the old one uh
was um I know that we have confiscated
systems in the past and you know there
is an Avenue for them to retrieve their
property after you know the case has
been adjudicated or um the processes
that they have to go through to to
re take possession of their
property um the other thing is when we
do make arrest on these it's an
appearance ticket it's not a custodial
arrest so generally Cooperative people
we will fill out and and this is a
appearance ticket that we've been
working on with um Mr Toro and John pal
was was a part of the effort where it's
a streamlined um appearance ticket
process that kind of everything's on one
form much like a it allows the officers
to handle the call more efficiently than
have to go back and be out of service
for an extended period time filling out
you know uh different informations and
reports and triplicate whereas uh this
one form can be submitted the only thing
is that that person never leaves their
home you know if they do if they're an
uncooperative person they need to be
exported to the police car to be given
their U appearance ticket at the
issuance of the appearance ticket
they're released back to their home or
to wherever they were taken
from and basically they're free to go
back right to doing what it was that got
them in trouble in the first place
should they choose to do that um so
there's only so much that we can
do uh at that point um so it it becomes
frustrating when you have repeat
offenders um I did
some kind of quick uh I got some quick
data from analysts and year to date
there's only about 20 arrests for uh
noise ordinance violations with you know
some repeat offenders on here um and
then there's a vast majority of the
calls that come in that the dispositions
for those are you know dark and quiet
gone on arrival
unfounded and so I think a lot of this
has to do with the periods of time where
these calls are most likely to come in
are also periods of time that are very
busy for the police department and on
days where the Staffing levels are not
the best you know Friday nights Saturday
nights that type of thing um and a lot
of situations like today a large portion
of our staffing is tied up on Odell
Street uh with you know the barric
subject that they have but still not
really resolved at this point so you
know much to what the mayor was stating
should a noise ordinance violation come
in to the call center you know during a
day like today the ability for us to
respond there in a time of manner is
prohibited by all of our resources being
utilized for things that have been
determined to be a higher
priority um
so this much I'm sure
every council member gets complaints
about this and you know between this and
traffic this is probably what I've get
the most complaints about to my office
so if you know if there's any way that
we can figure out as a group to better
deal with this issue or you know gain
compliance more effectively and I'd be
happy to do it but at this point this is
kind of what we do and and how it goes
and and the challenges that we're facing
and then if you wouldn't also mind just
speaking about the um joing as First
Responders that is definitely a
component of those discussions that
really catch my eye and kind of speaking
to the whole points about the cost of
having a law enforcement officer
responds to the incident and also just
speed at which they can respond so if we
have any information about that so it is
uh definitely something that we plan to
utilize once the program is up and
running we actually started this week
with uh reassigning a couple of our
officers temporarily to kind of get the
ball rolling on this and the U the
actual responder drones are expected to
arrive early in the beginning of
25 uh or late 24 however we do have
drones currently that don't have the
capabilities of these drones but we're
going to be starting to apply some first
responder type missions within the next
few weeks and what
we will have the ability to do once this
program up and running provided that
meets all the legal
requirements um which I'm sure we'll
discuss with the law Department before
taking this action but as I stated if uh
evidentiary you know something of
evidentiary value that can kind of
um meet what we need to file charges
even if we can't be there in person we
might be able to get that evidence with
the drones and have an officer review
the footage or maybe the Drone pilot
review the footage then initiate a
warrant packet for the problem property
um I'm not sure what additional
challenges that might face at this point
as far as being able to determine who's
responsible for the music you know would
you be able to do that with the Drone if
it's
outside there's a possibility we can get
the footage of where the music is coming
from and you know maybe um for repeat
offenders or chronic offenders we would
know that this address
I see the person who's been responsible
for it before this is the same system
that's playing music this is the same
person who's out there uh playing the
music you know sometimes it'll be very
cut and dry who's responsible yeah you
know there may come a time where it
might be difficult just from the footage
alone and a little bit further uh
investigation may need to happen to um
determine exactly who's at fault and who
can be f for this and then you get to a
level of how much effort do we want want
to put into a
violation when we have you know the
priority uh situations that would
require more manpower I do believe
though that the Drone as a first
responder is a tool that we're going to
be able to utilize to assist with this
issue and I I think it will be effective
I just don't want
to I want to be cautiously optimistic
about it I I don't want to say that it's
going to be the Magic Bullet
that stops all of this um because there will still be challenges and it
will be you know something that can cure
it all but I I think it is going to be a
very effective tool once it's up and run
thank you any questions or comments
before turning over to Mr R Mr T so in
terms of the um arrests um that have
been made um I was wondering about the
um the financial penalties um um and to
what extent those get paid um you know
or whether you know folks just don't pay
them and then what happens you know that
type of thing
um I would not have much information on
the follow through with the people
paying the fines that they've been given
I can definitely get that I don't know
if maybe the law department has better
information on that um um but as as far
as you know my understanding of the way
things work is if somebody's given a
penalty by a judge and they don't follow
through with that then eventually there
will be bench warrants or um things that
would come into place that would make
them responsible for those things
because I I think just ignoring it and
not doing it once something is
adjudicated it's not yeah that they're
going to have to follow through one way
or the
other so uh we
typically we try to request a report
that the fine need paid at the time of
sentencing so that we don't have to
chase people for money um unfortunately
we don't have control uh the judge many
times give uh people time to pay so uh
i' have to
records to see how much we've collected
in fines um based on what was uh we were
sentenced to but a lot of people in a
lot of cases we do get the money the
same
day sometimes people are given to and
that's not as easy for us to
track thank you and I will say uh based
on and I'm sure everybody here's aware
but based on the ordinance uh
in those situations where we discuss you
know
giving even whether it's an arrest or a
warning and then the music goes on 15
minutes later we show back up um if it's
a half an hour after we've given that
advisement or made that arrest it counts
as a new uh incident
so twice in the same night as long as
it's a half an hour apart counts as the
second violation so the fees for that
would go in line the second and third as
it as it
continues any other questions coms you
mentioned arrest so when the officer
shows up the resident is there
physically arrest people are you for to
pay ticket right so it's it's a it's not
a custodial arrest so it would be an
appearance ticket you know there have
been situations where somebody gets
escorted to the police car and fell the
paperwork but uh as far as you know
putting them in handcuffs and bringing
them down to the station
that doesn't Happ for
this is there a process where the
individual that files the complaint is
notified with the action the action
taken uh so the complaintant being made
aware so there are um one of the
questions that the dispatchers usually
ask is would you like the police to
contact you there there are times where
we will arrive unfortunately the music
or the the source of the loud noise is
no longer there but you know the person
who called it in does want to speak with
an officer so they'll get out of the car
they'll go in and and speak with the
complainant and then that person can you
know in their own words explain directly
to the officer what the the issue is um
and there are times where it's late at
night they're already having a hard time
sleeping so they don't want to be
bothered to get out of the bed any more
than they've already been bothered by
the noise so they prefer that the issue
just be dealt with and they don't want
to have anything more to do with it um
for those situations
there I don't we don't make a a call or
you know a notification that the the
problem's been solved Mr uh thank you
very much it sounds like you have a
handle on everything the department and
handling it with complete efficiency at
this point um trying to right um you
know when we make the phone call which I
make multiple times a year you know um
for for in my neighborhood again you
wait sometimes you know the police
happen to show up right away and sitting
on the front porch waiting or just a
little talk or something but um so at
least happy to to know that things are
being addressed as efficiently as they
are sometimes there's a time constraint
but thank you very much so thank
you so in terms of the number of calls
like say for instance there's a party so
you know maybe down street calls next
door Etc do you have um specific say we
receive this number of calls the same
regard the same incident in that case we
then take away their equipment or is or shut down the
party
so as far as shutting down parties
go
um people are allowed to have parties in
their private residences you know to an
extent obviously parties that your ad
iing and charging for a little bit
different um the after hours parties
that have been kind of plaguing our our
city for some time now um we've had a
lot of uh religious ceremonies that get
called in because sometimes they're
pretty loud especially with certain
cultures and and wedding
celebrations
um in those situations we try to
discreetly make advisements that we
understand this is a religious ceremony
but it is violating the noise ordinance
we don't want to disrupt what's going on
here but can you please turn it down and
more than often than not they they
comply with those um as far
as based
on when there are multiple calls for the
same problem coming from different
people it kind of indicates to us that
it kind of increases the legitimacy we
understand that you know this this must
really be bothering a lot of people when
we're getting multiple calls from
different people about the same problem
um but it doesn't necessarily affect the
way that we respond to it even one call
as long as we show up and it meets that
criteria we're going to handle the call
uh the way that it should hopefully
it'll be handled the way that it should
be handled by you know if you show up
and it's it's very a severe violation of
the ordinance then their reaction as
officers are probably going to be more
severe in that they're more to take away
the source of the noise on the First
Response if it's so
unreasonable that they don't deserve a
warrant now if if we show up and it's
somebody who it's borderline
unreasonable then we're probably not
going to take their uh the source of the noise away on the first um go around
so there isn't like uh if we get called
three times than this or four people
call than this it only takes one but
it's for the officers to determine when
they get there what's the level of
reasonableness of this you know how
unreasonable is it is how egregious is
the call and I think a lot of times if
it's and a lot of this I'm kind of
speaking from my own personal experience
where you know the time that I spent as
a patrol officer responding to calls
like
this personally if I got there and you
know um I I recall one instance it was
on Crane and
Orchard uh I remember I was Midnight's I
hadn't even received a call for it yet
but I was driving around the windows
were down and I could hear very very
loud music coming from a large apartment
building that was right across from um
original pizza and I saw an old elderly
woman on like the third floor kind of
looking out her window with her hands
like this and I could tell that the
music was coming from above so I was
like I don't need a call for this that's
enough for me so I went in there I found
the source of the
music gave them an advisement to turn it
down I got halfway down the stairs I
could hear the music already again so I
turned right around before I even left
the house and I took the power cord to
their stereo and issued a an appearance
ticket to the to the Violator so that
was the way I chose to deal with
removing the source of the music and it
seemed to work for that that night um
but but
again I feel like the removal of the
source of the music is based on the
ordinance it's discretionary and
sometimes it's difficult when you have
speakers that are as big as that window
or you know things that are not
necessarily you don't have the ability
to take them and put them in the police
car um so I don't know if I answered
your question
uh there's anything more that you want
me to elaborate that I didn't no that I just kind of trying to figure out
what is what the what you what are the
guidelines like I've called I've had
five calls from four different people
and what are we going to do about I mean
that's that's definitely taken into
consideration as well as how severely
they're violating the the and how do you
measure the sound like you heard that
you just talked about how you heard it
from the window isn't there you have
some actual instrument that measures
sound that that people can't argue with
like right you know what to me may not
be loud to you so it in the ordinance it
talks about being 50 ft away from where
the source of the music is so I mean
we're trained at estimating speed and
distance and that type of thing so it's pretty safe to say you know when
you're 50 feet away from something and
you can hear it but as far as a a
decibel measuring device we don't have
that um I know that they exist and same
you know similar to like a window 10
measuring device um and I want to say
those I mean they they would be
applicable I just don't know how
necessary they are because it it's it's
probably an
expense that would just kind of confirm
how loud it is but the fact is as long
as you're 50 ft from it and you can hear
it and it's bothering someone you you're
checking all the boxes you need to check
right there I I don't believe you know
being able to say that it was exactly
this decb you know whether it was you
know one decel over what would be deemed
as reasonable or 50 um and I don't even
know in terms of decb if that's even a
reasonable thing to say but um common
sense and and what a reasonable person
would would deem to be um too loud I
think it's it's will
be are there um like civil Avenues if a
neighbor
so you their neighbor has been ticketed
three four times and they've got F can
that complaint and take the neighbor to
Cil court on their own is that an option
I don't know you know kind of putting it
in their hands that they can do
something
themselves
I'll address
that some sometime ago Council me the
pressor pass section 183
talking about
182 the
new which U we had just started for the
first time ever to
force and uh we had our first hearing we
closed
down that
was all sorts of violation forget
through the hearing of mayor's
appointment as the heing officer and 12
points in 12 months is considered a
nuisance this property had about 600
points and but three points uh are since
we're focusing on noise uh violation of
section
182 is three points under Section
183 so that when you get in 12 points in
12 months you had four violations in a
year then you would have uh there is a
civil procedure to take care of this
which we we're now starting to
enforce
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which but uh so we're starting to
enforce that it hadn't been enforced by
prior Corporation Council until vaccine
came in and U so kind of wearing two
hats
here we are now starting to uh enforce
that if you were looking for amendments
to certain parts of the city code maybe
you want to increase the point value
from 3 to four or something like that in
section 183 and then there be three you
know increase it there'll be three calls
in a year and then we can take the that
se so calls one yeah well
that's we sort of ties in with what the
chief was saying
that you know if you go away for a half
hour and you have to come back have to
back that's another incident you already
have six points yeah in one night and
that might uh have a chilling effect on
the people who turn it up when they
leave and if I can add one more one more
thing though I think is good for the
drones you know going back
to court there might be some due process
arguments about the drones and and
individual liability but certainly from the air you can tell whether the
property problem and that's what the new
it's about the property the property
continues to be a problem and so the
drones I think would also be a good tool
in terms of enforcing resour
um so if I can add I think the mayor was
like is there a magic ball or an answer
and I think trying to hedge our bets if
we look at this as a three-prong
approach I think you have the city code
and I speaking on the news I think I
misspoke and said it hasn't been
adjusted or amended in three decades is
not the case it's almost two decades but
still that's a long amount of time and
if we look at what has changed since 20
2006 a lot has think we evaluate how to
adjust our enforcement to incorporate
other Technologies and making sure the
legalities of how they're uh
adjudicating these types of cases I
think that improves the conditions for a
lot of our residents who in some
instances feel like they are uh helpless
where it is a beautiful day out my
windows are open and now I have to
inconvenience myself further to have a
slightly better day and and the
frustration is what do I do and I'm glad
Mr Terell highlighted that it is not at
the lack of consideration from the
police department it truly is not and on
my uh um right alongs I've seen the
calls come in and although you want to
respond to all them you physically
cannot uh so unfortunately I think it
has to be an understanding from the
community of you can only be in bu many
places at once but I think if the
perception from our residents is if I
call nothing happens because it keeps
happening day in and day out and if also
the perception is from these violators I
use that lightly because if some people
aren aware of the code and they just
think it's a free-for all I can put
$60,000 worth of equipment in my car I
think starting somewhere is important
um but I wanted to give Mr an
opportunity yes going back to the point
system I can recall that we did actually
amend that to kind of Target the
convenience stores in terms of the point
systems so you're mentioning point
system I think if I can recall a couple
years we had um Institute that that just
because of the the very problem we
having with these convenience stores and
how do we address it over a period of
time suggestion to us and basally
recommendation to ex the F system so I
not the F
system that was passed couple years ago
can carry over way into residential we
may want to amend that to include um yes
the right cross section of U the
violation who needed convenience stores
or any Del or sort of things like that we did at that point system
actually that is true it was never we
never get a chance to kind of enforce it
there were so many excuses oh didn't get
approved okay it was approved but never
got enforced right from the Law
Department commissioner is correct about
that
[Music]
the the
uh a private residence could
be when we would have we would have to
pull that resolution it was primarily
targeted towards the convenient delis to
kind of bring them in compliance so
whenever they come back apply for the
renewal the mayor Police Department
everybody will sit there and says okay
you had X violation
and if they if they was actually
enforcing it and if they met that
12.65 automatically be closed within
that given year but unfortunately we
never have the
enforcement
glad
be we're doing
it and
if if it is limited to convenience
sources and sure you could change it to
noise coming from anywhere right so when
we that we did talk about the the point
syst but the commission is correct there
is in the nuisance part of the code
nuisance you can VI people with
individual residents can get violation
based on the nuisance um we um code but
we were targeting the convenience stores
and we trying to focus on that because
then we did have so many problems but
that part the um C is already there for
individual so maybe need to tighten up
to you know improve it um you know amend
whatever way necessary
yes I I do like that idea in in the next
183 of bringing it from four to you know
different point levels for residents um
and somewhere in here and and of course
I forgot my glasses today so the
landlords are
responsible the it's somewhere in here
it's the landlords yeah so it it gives
the exception of
a somebody who's leasing the property
from the landlord so they the landlord
can't be held responsible
for really no they can be I think so I
thought identified that P it's p
P2 section three and it is category
section no
1824 and it's within that initial
paragraph says for the purposes of this
chapter it shall be presumed that the
owner tenant person or persons in
possession or control and the occupant
of the particular premises or jointly or
severely sever a weird word so I think it it
identifies that whether you're directly
or indirectly you're responsible for
that reproduction of noise to some
extent and then my question was going to
be
follow was you mentioned earlier AC no
about people having video evidence that
they taking themselves and one
cautioning is people kind of going out
getting 4K cameras and getting their
ghilly suits like going to extreme but
also I want to make sure we're
documenting what is necessary to proceed
forward is that sufficient enough to
meet that threshold and you know there
can be issues where how do we prove that
this video is taken on this date at this
time at this location
um which I'm sure there are ways but
that maybe the Law Department might
want most most of these don't go to
trial most people
ple or a
hearing date following that so it's we
prepare Discovery um if we need to which
would
be pictures or videos If we have
um but most of the time like I said we
don't wind up getting to the point of
having to go trial to prove it people
generally take a lower fine to settle it
rather than risk going to a
trial and risking getting the mag and I
think that's where I want to kind of
focus on uh because I'd like for us to
have these fines strictly adhere to to
change the culture and narrative that
this is something that we are focusing in on it especially if uh by
the time we do address it it comes at
extreme cost in time and
responses so my question is around the
fine and as asash is saying that when
they go to court the judge has sort of
some leg in what they can do they can we
do so fine so is there a way that we
that that hard and fast or do they
always have the ability to um negotiate
what a person can pay because um what
happen sometimes people like I can
afford that and I'm willing to pay that
as opposed to I'll give you an example
that happened there was somebody putting
out their trash ear and so I roll down
like you know it's too early to put out
your trash like oh it's only $50 off
like I can afford that in no big deal
and so I was like really I was going up
to
200 so um and I did hear that and so um
you know I think in matters how impacts
and financially off so once once it gets
in front of a judge we absolutely have
no control over it the judge then can
say you know this can go from 12 from a
th000 they can bring it down to
$100 I mean the judge certainly has full
control to do that but we generally go
in and make an offer the judges
typically follow what we agree to with
the defendant so we'll uh conference
with the defendant or we'll make the
offer in open court um but so the
maximum fine for the first defense is
$250 um so in order
to
uh increase the likelihood that someone
is going to settle typically we offer
$150 time sometimes a high as 200 if
there's something egregious about it if
we were
to uh go hard and fast with the maximum
buy then there's not necessarily a
reason for people to settle and so then
we have the added resources of the city
having to prosecute cases through
trial um not knowing whether the extra
$50 or $100 is really going to make a
difference in how it hits someone's
wallet so if if you want the fine for example the first violation to be
hard and fast at $250
then my recommendation would be to raise
the fines generally so that we could
offer $250 as a way to settle it rather
than again there's a lot of resources
that go into trying a
case um and becomes is it worth it to
the city uh to do that of course in some
cases we have to but to do that on every
single one because we want the maximum f
um the only way to alleviate that raise
the fine you want to collect $250 or we
can offer $200 that's just $50 less but
again the further away you go from the
maximum fine the less likely someone's
going to be to leave and to just agree
to pay the fine rather than goes through
the trial process where they may be
found not
guilty Patrick well that's why I mean um
I I when you suggested the 500 the th000
and the and the 2,000 I I I just felt
like in in looking at this I felt like
okay these were probably set so that
there'd be more affordability for people
to be able to pay the fine um so I here
you know obviously you know that's that
might be a stronger deterrent but I just
wonder if it would at those levels mean
that more and more people wouldn't pay
the fine um and then we have to go
through all the rest of the processes um
I I I you know but I I hear why you're
saying uh increase some I get that but
um I just was worried that it would
increase the workload on the other end
of trying to pursue someone that may not
be able to afford 500 or ,000 or $2,000
but my response is why are we being
convenient to violators and my hope is
as you enforce this you do not live in a
big city or it is big in some respects
but it truly is not and I am under the
perception of once it is starting to
circulate through neighborhoods that the
city of skty is pursuing the maximum
penalties for these types of offenses I
have to believe that individuals who are
violating are going to take a second
pause um or understand the severity of
how we are evaluating these types of
complaints moving forward because my
caution is to what extent do we expect
our residents to continue to be
complicit and have we already lost
residents from our city as we continue
to revitalize our neighborhoods
Revitalize downtown if we don't have the
people here it's for not so I think that
is more of a worry for me who is turning
away from SCCY because of our inability
to correct this not because we don't
have the intent but just because we lack
the execution and implementing this so I
think we have to pick a
[Music]
path so for me when I look at the finds
I don't see it as a way so they have the
ability to pay to me I'm looking as a
deter it's like don't make the noise
and I wonder if when when leis offic go
out they even have that discussion with
people about that they even know Their
fines exist for them you know if you
continue to do this it's going to cost
you we could find the city could find
you finally $250 Etc are people aware
because sometimes awareness makes a
difference as well if they know
eventually if this continues it's going
to cost them money there are definitely
circumstances where those conversations
are had uh there are also circumstances
where the conversations don't ever occur
because the person's just looking at us
through a door that they refuse to open
um
so I
think um in a perfect world where we
would be able to take somebody and and
have a you know a conversation with them
and explain to them you know why we're
there the the problem with what's going
on how to resolve it and what the
penalties are and somebody being open
and receptive to that conversation I
think you know that would be great and I
think you probably have more success but
unfortunately all of our interactions
don't end up going that way um some
people are very combative and
confrontational or under the influence
of substances and not really in a
position to really comprehend what what
we're explaining to them but it it is is
uh something that I will bring to my the
patrol unit and explain that you know
try your best to be very transparent
about what
the um penalties are for being found
guilty of this especially for multiple
offenses or repeat offenses and um you
know I know that that is happening but
I'll try to put more emphasis on
um trying to do that as as much as
possible I mean it's conceivable that we
could just actually create just little
small documental warning Sy say like
here and for people when they no long
need can just read through it and uh
just so they have something that the
documents that we were here and this is
a concern and here's the um the possible
outcom Contin we have done that for
other things like informational handouts
for you know this is what happens if
you're the victim of a crime this is
what happens when you know a detective
is assigned to your case so you know
that might be beneficial to to give a
shot yeah I'm just going back to was
mentioned moments ago in terms of video
evidence it's a good thing but I don't
think um we should encourage it to get
people out there to go to video someone
because it might put people danger but
um can we do an affid statement and have
them sub that in terms of video evidence
and you just mentioned it can it can be
dangerous because a person is
intoxicated and you're going to video
them so that you can get evidence for
your case here you are on a premises and
you know XYZ can happen in those
situations that person would probably
have to testify or have their name on
the documentation so so I think that
something we should encourage that for
to give them an opportunity to say yes
if you are there and you are the witness
of it there's an opportunity for you to
submit an
affid to justify telling the police
department um just um looking at this
here and talking on the side of the
commissioner I think we need to look at
182 and 183 chapter 183 because it's
very important to look at 183 also
because that's only the abatement is
because there are certain things that we
passed here a couple of years ago in
terms of points that is relevant over to
183 that we need to address also because
past revising 182 it would make any
sense if we do not revise 183 so we need
to broaden our schol at this point in
time yeah I think actually um and we
kind of touched on this at our at a
previous meeting but even when we talk
about the vehicle piece which I hope we
will um that also will probably impact a
different different ordinance as well in
terms of traffic right I think sure um
so that that would be there as well and
there is I mean I guess I thought that
1827 was the how a citizen um makes a
formal complaint Mr mudaron but I was
wondering a question that I had was just
um to the extent to which people might
fear uh putting their name to something
the retaliation I mean I know I have
felt that myself even when I've called
to make noise complaints and you know I
get what your name and it's kind of like
oh you know obviously I give them my
name and my my address and such but
there's always that you know I always
say is the person going to know uh who
it was and I I think that's why we take
every effort to be the witness of the
violation so that the initial caller is
not even part of the proceedings it's
the officer who personally observed the
violation and um
based it off of their
college um going back to the finds I
mean at this point I'm okay with with
what's in there um you know again you're
in your yard maybe having a a birthday
party and you got neighbors who don't
want to hear here it's tolerable to you
so you know all of a sudden please show
up at my door and be like you know turn
it down
there's
e e
about
2 that's good to
know what we're identifying that what
we're identifying in here and I think
it's different if we have a community
that's hesitant to put their name on
these documents so you're not having
them attach their name which is a huge
component if the police department is
unable to respond to every instant which
we know they're not that's why I think
it is crucial for the incidences that
they do respond to for us to have a
stronger approach and I pushed back and
I out of fear of how think is going to
respond to us if we remain uh slow or
cautious to do anything different I just
had an email and in one regard the
resident says hey this is an issue I'm
glad you're talking about it then the
later half of the email he goes I don't
even think you guys are going to really
do anything and that is the expectation
that I hear day in and day out it's why
even bother I'm just going to suck this
up and get through it and I I again I I
don't think we're talking about the
cocktail parties where you're
celebrating a a birthday I think I'm
talking I I know I'm talking about the
Earth
shattering window pounding vibrations
and I think that is something that
people can tell the difference on and if
you're groping in those same arguments I wholeheartedly hope that the other
members in our committee Public Safety
Committee will at least will at least
allow the public weigh in during public
comment we choose to do something
differently but I I urge the community
to come out and give us your experiences
give us your stories because that's
what's going to be needed to ensure that
what we're doing is with the right
intent but I think staying the course
that sends a poor message to the
community and we have to do something
different and the reason why I'm uh
advocating for something as strong as
this because without that without the
drones without the law enforcement
officers there's a there's a hug huge
gap all Mr yes going back and as I had
it marked last time we met to modify the
section 1827 because there are many
people there who will let who doesn't
have a problem put their name on after
so I would like to see that we put that
in there and give them an opportunity
whoever so desire there's an opportunity
for you to make a statement and swore to
it that yes you Witnesses and if the
case was to go to trial they will show
off and testify on that
we can't just leave it blank and then
we're not giving them opportunity
because video evidence is one not a lot
of people will do that and I don't
encourage that safety reason but adding
that into this section will help and yes
you talk about um the shattering glasses
this is why we need to look at the
modified speaker because if we can
address the modified speaker with a
hydraulic lift putting this speak on top
of these SUVs on the car and what we're
doing here it just was time so that's
why I would like to refer to Law
Department how can we put something in
place to to Target these modified
speakers that they have these all
hydraulic system in they car do we need
to come up with something from the Law
Department to kind of revise the city
Charter to address that specifically
because we have seen over the several
months into the summer here a lot of
those activities where they call it them
car
meet and their loud explosion with music
and you know it's affecting the
neighborhood that's the thing we need to
address and at the same time this is
going to be addressing these are these
are residential but then we look at the
car and driving down the street and
shattering everybody's glass are shaking
how
be lot yeah I definitely I I really want
to talk about the vehicles and I have to
just say coincidentally I was on my walk
this morning headed back towards my
house and there was a vehicle and I you
know had just finished you know going
through all of this and there was a
vehicle parked on you know I think I was
on Keys uh on the side of the road
glaring music out the out the window um
just sitting in front of this house um
and they just kept pumping it up higher
and higher and higher um and I I
actually the the person I walked with
said don't like I because I literally
wanted to go over and say Hey you know
you you really and and you know my my
walking partner said don't don't you
dare go over there um uh in in case you
know something happened but I think the
car thing is really um important and
Miss Porterfield brought up at our last
meeting about the
Mufflers um and the fact that people are
um you know modifying Mufflers which is
um in 1824 section B um and I wanted to
bring up that you
know I think also we might consider a
penalty on you installers I mean I don't
know if people are just installing them
themselves or if there's actually places
that we could um you know think that are
this is this is happening at different
Service uh places I I don't know I I I
but I mean that to me I think they
should be fined as well if there's if
there's people that are actually
installing these modified devices that
we should issue some sort of penalty
there as well my question ass is it
legal I you're trying
to I I don't want to be rude I just I
had an obligation
so so these modified things on the cars
the musers the crazy the speakers all
that are those legal I mean is there
something some part of law that says you
can't to that degree yeah there's a in
the vehicle on traffic law there's an
entire section that um covers
modifications or or it's uh what we call
equipment violations so there's a whole
section with um legal tolerances for
certain additions or modifications that
are made to vehicles that go all the way
from you know how high off the ground
your license plate is supposed to be so
it really gets into the Weeds on those
types of modifications and um you know
pertaining to the equipment on the
vehicle thank yeah you're fine you don't
need to answer this so um just and
everyone knows see
fix you're good and thank you very much
have a good weekend
yeah thank you for the opportunity thank
you thank you um this connected pv's
website I mean I'm on there frequently
especially with the with the loud noises
this white Audi that drives by my house
and and Shakes the whole house
constantly so of course I get license
plates the other day in front of the
funeral home there's a black Lexus I
actually walked up and and told the
gentleman to turn it down I mean it just
shakes and it vibrates I take their
license plate numbers and the make of
the car and I turn it in on the SPD
website um so they can be aware of
what's out there and I encourage
everyone to do that um on that website
you can either put your name which which
I always do or it can be anonymous so
again just so that you know they can't
be everywhere so they have an idea of
what's going on so um and I I just want
to say this is this is a huge issue with
me as well so I'm not by U Mr Williams
when I said I the fines I'm okay with
the fines um I'm not not doing anything
there's things that need to be done and
again I don't even know people are
realizing that there are finds for
disturbances like this and as far as a
cocktail party in the yard yeah you know
when people's yards are butt each other
um people are trying to have a a
conversation at at their back table and
the people behind them are playing not
excessively loud music they've actually
walked over asked the individuals to
lower the music but the people don't so
you don't have any choice but to reach
out to the PD um so it's not you know
there there are individuals that are
being being annoyed not by R you know
loud vibrating music just Everyday Music
that's too loud in your neighborhood
when you're trying to enjoy yourself out
painting or weing or having a general
conversation at your table so I just
want to say that but I I just write
things down put it out you know report
whatever you see
whenever I just want in in the in regard
to vehicles I know the speakers does
section 1824
j2v address
that
well up I think it's a little bit
too yeah 182 could you just repeat that
sure
1824
jound oh no yeah
2 yeah
no no that is where we talk about the um
mufflers and such great but I think it
needs to be nail down a little bit more
in terms of modifying I agree totally
agree especially those those low rider
cars that are right on
the
it's
1824 section
B and B3 is um you know that's where I
put my question about whether places
that install it could also get
fined but I don't know enough about it
to know whether that's how these
Mufflers are being modified yeah they
take them some they do take or or they
know how to
do um my my only other comment I really
wanted to make sure that we as we're
considering all these things we because
I get a lot of complaints about this
construction so we have to make sure
when we're looking at construction but
construction people start work at 6:00
in the morning what they do so you know
how do we even address that because that
gets them from 6:00 to 3:
they
I I also circled that but I think think
that you know I mean people especially
like when you think about the summer
time um I think that folks are trying to
get their work done um in terms of the
early morning hours where it's less
humid that kind of thing so I
think I think that one's a tough one and
people might just have to deal with um
the construction noise but my response
would be if you're dealing with it as
you're driving to work if you're dealing
with it as you're trying to go to sleep
at night and if you're dealing with it
because the roads are getting PID
repaved again to to to what Avail so I
think it's just a lot um I I know we
weren't meant to kind of solve anything
is more have a pre-c
conversation community meeting which I I
very much want to just identify I
appreciate everyone coming out and being
present for this discussion I also want
to make sure we we capture the fact that
Miss BR I want to make sure I we heard
her statement of if we're going to
continue with these efforts it has to be
worth your time and that's that's what I
hear or you don't have the ability to
respond to every incident uh small small
figures did I did not hear you correctly
where trying to to not go to trial
you're accepting pleas because to go to
trial for every offense is not realistic
especially if the fine ultimately is
$250 yes I mean we it it doesn't really
make sense to take every to trial
um but if that's what the council wants
we can do that I mean if we're here to
do what you know we Implement what you
legislate so if if the council wants to
take everyone to trial we can but
unfortunately that's going to stress the
resources of the Law Department if we
had unlimited resources that might be
different but that's just not the
reality of it we're a small But Mighty
team um um but and and the thing is that
taking everything to trial
like if you if you take it to trial you
have to prove the case and we may not
always be able to because of certain
circumstances and then we can do all
that work and then we get zero so when
we take please it kind of works for both
sides because it's a deterrent to the
offender because they've had to pay pay
a fine and at the same time the Law
Department doesn't have to put in all of
the effort and resources to take it
other way to trial but again if if the
council were to decide that we would
certainly take everyone to trial um my
recommendation instead would be if you
want $250 to be the standard that we
request of the port or that we agreed to
as a plea then raise the maximum fine so
that we're
giving them a quotequote break in order
to plea barain and that's why people
plea because they're taking a lesser um
penalty in exchange for them also not
having the risk of going to court and
losing and having to pay the maximum
fine it's all a negotiation when you go
to court and before I opening up to
questions again I just want to make
clear my intent is not for the the Law
Department to take everyone to trial I
don't think we are truly going to have
everyone documenting or submitting these
complaints uh because in some regards
that is a luxury that others have than
not where I think if you're working two
jobs or if you're riding bus and you
don't have a computer I think you're
limited in how you can submit a
complaint um but what I will say is I
think if we are at least responding to
the egregious offenders I think yes we
need to have a strong expectation to to
see those through with no considerations
for fleas because again I think that
sets an undue presence where said it's a
Miss porterfield's point
what is
$50 and if you know you're having this
party and you want to enjoy yourself
what's $200 to have a good
time
Mr let let me go back to the m during
our discussion in terms of the fee
increase proposed Fe increase which
we're going to hear from Monday from the
police department we touch on on the
modify exhaust and the speaker and there
is no legislation directly to kind of to
modify speaker but to exhaust is a state
La so what the police can only do is to
enforce it and by enforcing they will um
get a portion of that Revenue so I think
that's what they going to be touching on
Monday because we can as a local body
Institute that it's a state l so they
will try to see how they can put
resource to enforce that like how they
do the DWI check and you know all these
different um seat Bel stuff uh to get
that going so I don't know how we can
address that on the local level but more
PD enforcement and whenever they have
the resources to the in terms of the fee
I just want to to talk
and um the garbage violation on the
garbage garbage violation I mean yes we
have seen a lot of violation there but
then if you've go into the neighborhood
two months ago and you were to go back
today you will see drastic difference
the garbage can is not on the front
porch and garbage can is not on the
front site walk they're all the way at
the back of the house why because
somebody received a violation that you
were not putting your garbage was
improperly stored so it's more of an
enforcement to tell you that you are in
violation of your garbage take it to the
back of the house so I think for the
approach here I don't have an issue
either up or down with the fees but it's
more of a enforcement and a stronger
enforcement of the
no and agree with uh the Law Department
we have to also look at the result
Source we cannot tie up all the
department with a lot of um all these
evidence and all sort of things to
present the course so we give them an
opportunity to so okay let's ble a case
there is an opportunity for you to B
guilty and pay fine and move on and at
the same time also um we talked the last
time about Pro because there are a lot
of things that people are doing events
special events and things of that for
the you know the young kids we should
work on a Institute a permit and that
permit will carry a lot of information
about the host so the PD instead of
going down there they can from the pring
they can call the hes and ask them to
you know receive complaint you should
turn your music down and you know if
your perit expired you should take it
off so I think um that is something that
we should look at
into
and we talk about um Fireworks yes we we
need to look at that also it's not
because
that is that is a noise usess also how
do we do that this go back to the affid
if the person can sign that affid I say
yes my neighbor John light off you know
a whole bunch of fireworks you know so
be it show up the court and testify and
those we have to give uh people that
opportunity to to do that but I just
want to go back to the modified speaker
I am going to try to reach to
commissioner and U our cooperation
Council to see how we can draft
something to add to this modifi this at
the same time in terms of addressing
these loud speak
from well I was just looking at you know
maybe the scale of mention the agre bi
that rep what we have in code now
sufficient
enough that there you know obviously
keing should probably be enough
depending on
numbers um but then you know there
repeat fenders we want to look at the
fines and increase them because there's
a lot of
resources the triy
off so I think that's one way to take a
look at it so we can address those
repeat fenders in a way
thater advoca for find I'm I'm yeah yeah
yes or no
yes I'm sorry Patrick before um well I
just um the enforcement piece I mean I
think as we go I mean I think we have to
be realistic as well in terms of the
numbers of people that we Staffing um so
as we start to go into our budget
discussions um you know we have to be
aware of that because it also when I
think about the traffic uh measures
which we will also be addressing again
on Monday um it's the same issue you
know I think actually the mayor started
our meeting by talking about the
priorities and and our chief um brought
it up as well because these are not
going to be their High priorities so we
either have to increase the Staffing um
so that they can you know be able to uh
allocate their their human resources in
a way to help us enforce these things um
because I think the enforcement is key
um whether it's speeding uh the red
lights I mean we had some when we first
started these discussions about the
traffic stuff um you know basically or
if we you know on my ride along I mean
you know they're like you know we can't
necessarily go
to after somebody that's going through a
red light if we're going to get a call
that you know something more serious is
happening so how do we hand you know I
think we have to I just want to bring
that up that when we start our budget
discussions I think this is going to be
something that's we need to think about
so um first of all I think we should
increase the fees based on especially
Bas on what our Corporation Council is
saying because that gives them room to
negotiate so raise it up a little bit
and they can come to what we would
really like to get so I think that's U
part of it in terms of enforcement I
agree however I'm not sure if we
increase our staff if it's still going
to get them to this place because still
because it's sometimes it's
da that you call noise violation they
show like three days later with them so
I'm not sure if increasing Staffing is
going to address that in that way
because what I believe will happen is
then the higher priority calls still
come first they still will so I'm not
sure if that's necessarily the answer I think that part of it is that we're
not people don't know but there's a f people we we have to we have
to put the information you will get a f
for I agree and then we have to I don't
know if even it needs to be the police
department do we even have a separate
department just handle getting those
finds out there I
totally so um and that might be a little
less expensive
the police trying to do that I think we
have to look at it at various ways which
U which is most beneficial financially
for the city and for people to say you
know I'm not going to do that and then
just basically respect your neighbors
because that's really what it really BLS
down to you just only are concerned
about you and your party and you don't
care that you know that over here I'm
like I'm living with an elderly person
or I have a dog or whatever the
situation may be so I think that we we
know I don't think we do enough to to
inform the public about really what like
the mayor talks about Behavior a lot but
we don't really we talk about Behavior
around the stable how often do we talk
the behavior to our
community Mr T oh and and I I agree with
u Miss Porterfield Zero Tolerance I mean
it needs to get out there it won't be
tolerated even though we're not going to
be able to enforce it right now the way
we want to zero tolerance there's a fine
um it might deter some and uh again as as AC anovich said I've been working
for three years with the PD uh on this
ticket which is which is almost ready so
it's it's it's not going to be when when the police come and issue a
ticket it's not going to be a 2hour kind
of ticket it's going to be a quick
appearance ticket it's going to be boom boom you know check off uh what
your offenses are at that particular
time and triplicate hand it off and
you're out of there they sign it and
you're gone so that will allow them to
when they're driving down the street
there's a muffler in front of them and
they want to ticket it they don't want
to pull them over right now you know why
cuz they're on the way to another call
you don't know what's in qu waiting to
for them to to respond to so um all
those things but again Zero Tolerance we
can't we I I mean my neighborhood is
just
insane insane it's definitely Mr Man but
I want to make a comment I've heard it
multiple times like in our current
political system and and in the military
a non- enforceable law is a suggestion
so I hear you guys highlight the the
importance of enforcement you know we
don't have it because uh they're Limited
in what they can respond to and also
we're Limited in how many officers we
have so where is the give and and and we
then say we're just going to say we have
zero tolerance but KN in the backend we
don't have the ability to respond to
them I feel like we're again we're
setting our community up for for
disappointment
[Music]
Mr just wondering
the in the fenses are acop options that
you get some people might be their first
time or you know they get ticketed there
the fine and give you an acod which
would be six month AC contemplation
dismiss six months about any violations
we can dismiss it excuse me please you
know look at the different sentencing
options well that would be more
complaints coming in and how do you know
got an acod this how do you know when I
come is the judge going to be able to
know that you get the world Department
would say this is not first time Mar has
been here three times before so no more
ACS for her they must know that
right the court would have a record of
the ACs but if you're if
you're that sounds different that's like
reducing we yeah I was thinking where
increase the sign but there are those
that that you know I I screwed up and
you know just as another option yeah we
can always offer an AC I mean there's
exceptions to every rule but generally
like I said we typically offer
150
um 200 because it's used in criminal
matters all the time right but if the
council
wants it's just it's just a conversation that's all I am
not in
favor German contemplation of
noise um so we have to bear in mind I
can I can
speak historically I'm being in the
council every time we make changes to
any city
laws it it it creates or it asks for
more resource to enforce it
M we can say we can change after 13 182
and 183 and said let it go there and we
expect the PD to enforce it we we're
being unfair to any Department if we
were to do that so we have to factor in
that because this what we're doing here
is good for our community but at the
same time we need to give the department
the resource to enforce it and let me
just go back a little bit and talk about
Nuance Department back in time it only
one m one person right we have four now
and it's the reason why we're seeing
that our neighborhood are being clean it
is because the resource at their
disposal they're fully staed and they're
going out there every single day and
they're enforcing the violation and it's
ticket and we're seeing our neighborhood
are cleaning day by day we're seeing
cleaning so the same thing going to be
happening here we're going to have to
make sure that we revise this to the
best we can to make sure that our
neighborhood are be addressed the
concern but at the same time address
resource resource to make sure that is put in place and they don't have to
wait 3 days we're going to have the
drones and we have somebody man the
Drone we have somebody right there to
take care of that to go over there res
You by appearance ticket a person show
up the court and then you know it takes
a course from there
on so just to piggyback on that I do
think that um I totally agree and I
think that there first of all we need to
having them at the table and I know he
you know he had to leave so but I mean
as we move forward obviously they'd
still be involved in these discussions
but because I've always thought maybe
there's a way to you know inist the help
of retirees from the I mean in other
words there might be Creative Solutions
uh to some of the staffing issues but
that's you know we need them to be uh
voicing their opinions on that I just
wanted to reiterate that I think whether
it's this issue whether it's the traffic
issue whether it's the trash issue the
education and the behavioral change is
key so I think we are going to have to
uh think about that and think about how
do we advertise it how do we Market it
you know what are the resources that
we're going to need to do to do that um
and then I also just want to say before
I mean two things before we before we
leave or just so when we continue our
discussion we do need to talk about
animals um and we do need to talk about
the parks um animals and what the noise
that there might be dogs that are left
outside you know eight hours or
something and they're barking like crazy
it's it's in here but I'm just saying
it's something that we didn't talk about
here and I do want us to do that and
then also just those public parks that
we all I mean I think we all can see
when we are walking in our parks that um
you know there's vehicles that are
making noise there's people that are
making noise all doesn't matter the day
or you know the time um so you know one
thing that I noticed um I think that
again it's it's a resource thing but we
might want to have sign in our parks
where the um non-emergency number um is visible on on signage in terms of you
know how does somebody report um a
complaint as well so those were the last
things that I just wanted to indicate
before we
leave before I go um next meeting can we
have both chapters 182 and 183 so that
we can kind of refer to 183 to what some
meting the next meeting yes so we'll kind of like we have we must look
at four
chapters uh any other questions or com
what's our next I mean in other words
back to what you said in terms of the
other email or the end of the email that
you received today I mean you know I
want to make sure that we do take action
um so I just didn't you know wanted to
see what your thoughts were in terms of
an action plan and our timeline and and
that Ty of thing so I would say in my
recommendations earlier with focusing on
adjusting the time frame for un reason
noise um adjusting the fines and then
focusing on the permits I think that
takes into account that our enforcement
is our enforcement so I don't foresee or forecast any significant changes to
the police department's Staffing levels
um I think enforcement is affected in a
positive way with the introduction of
drones which according to ACN no's
accounts are potentially end of this
year hopefully the beginning of next
year so again we're asking the community
to be patient which they've been doing
for a number of years so that is why
increasing the fines um I think gives M
rash's Department the ability to when we
respond to the few instances that we can
that it has more of a substantial impact
to the thing that everyone cares most
about which is your your wallet but also
it has a reverting impact on the
community that they are no longer
accepting fleas uh because the instances
that we do respond to are such a small
uh uh composite of all of the issues to
our city we need that to have a
magnified um impact so I think if we
were responding to a few instances those
instances that we're responding to need
to have weight and impact if that makes
sense so so I guess I think basically
what's mone's meeting that look like in
terms of you know what what we leave
from this you'll be bringing from this
meeting with the committee to the
meeting on Monday that's the question so
I would say listening with the
collective I know this is not a full
representation of our Collective Council
it seems as if we're saying we need to
increase um awareness which I agree on
um however we need to allow the uh
ticketing process as it currently exists
to continue on and I'm trying to be
positive but it it sounds like we need
to increase enforcement which we can but
we need to make sure the community is
aware that there's a ticketing um which
to some degree I don't think is going to
have impact on your ability to like
adhere to being a good Samaran or
not so well I thought we would
increasing the fin one discussion I
would say from the individuals in the
committee it seems as though they're
very they won't get out of
comme so no I'm just going to Monday's
meeting so what what is the purpose of
Monday's meeting because we still we're
still discussing here with gathering
information and then present so what are
we going to discuss Monday should we now
wait hold on another special meeting um
special public safety meeting try to get
some draft information in and present to
the entire Council Monday so what I
would ask is for everyone to as you had
your comments I took a vigorous amount
of notes and I hope think shitty clerk
was also taking notes also I would ask
in similar format if everyone could just
document your takeaways and either send
those in this m
gr or you can well I'd say that's
probably the best case uh and then we
compile them but in addition I think
there's a lot of credibility to
commissioner divine's comment of looking
at both chapter 182 and 183 collectively
in that point system um so I think
regardless of how we started this
meeting um I think we still have good
work or good outcomes to work towards
um
I um so okay so why don't you okay it's
on the agenda Monday so why don't you
give the entire Council an update or
what was the discussion or today and
then we continue and then come up with
our um recommendation to the entire
Council because we're going to discuss
the same thing Monday doesn't make any
sense no no I don't think that's what he
said I think I think he's saying that we
just give a um a report about the chair
can give you a report of what happened
like what Miss uh Patrick did and we
still continue to meet still continue to
put information together and come up
with a draft and then present to the F
Council agree so I don't um I don't know
how much of a discussion we're going to
have Monday because there's a lot of
discussion here and a lot of takeaways
for us to come up with a uh to start
work ons but I me one of the points was
uh looking at the system I think having
that as a kind of light hold moment of
that is an option we can have um as an
objective I think we have that continued
discussion as a council that might be
something we're willing to move on
forward in our committee so I would say
as if we capture all of the takeaways
and then we come to Monday and I do a
summarization but if you feel more
emboldened you want to take
a take a direction we can so I think
that's why leaving it is important um
but still continue like I have never
read 182 yet or 183 so I will and I then
may be more open to a different
direction exactly that's what I'm saying
uari so to kind of give summary next
Monday and then let's continue to work and make sure we
address every um section on the both
chapters and then bring it out to the
full Council once we can get that
agreement so move forward with I just
think that I do want to say that I think
that there might be things that um I I
absolutely think we need to you know
summarize our own questions and comments
and get that to miss Miku um I
definitely think we have to look at the
other uh ordinance as well and review
that but I hope that um there might be
some things where we might even on
Monday be able to make recommendations
for motions
um like increasing the fees like
increasing the fees or you know you'd
have to call for a public hear well we
do have a public hearing um when is the
public hearing there's no for public
hearing oh there isn't I thought there
was
already want to do that let's take our
time let's not jump on here we should do
all together I think what is the public
hearing that's coming up is it we have
some public hearings public okay what is
it okay and I just want to and I think
that's something we should do need to
talk to the law department and um the
police department and probably the Law
Department as well want to really just
caution Us in terms of the the use of
drones and people feeling about the the
whole big brother thing because that may
come into I think that's going to become
a conversation where people feel like
drones are over neighborhoods to pretty
much control their behavior so I'm not
sure that that if that's something we
can even do or how much how much we want
to do that so I think we should look
into the the theity of that well I think
I mean I think we've already moved
forward with purchasing these drones and
heard from our Police Department in
terms of some of the various uses for
the drones um I hear what you're saying
um but I think it's the same I mean I'm
still hoping that there's going to be
speed cameras on the red lights I mean
it's the same thing but we do have a
responsibility to be trying to look and
it's new techn I mean it's it is where
we're at I mean in terms of the world in
terms of being able to use the
technology that that now is at our um
available to us to be able to enforce
things um we may just have to take some
flap but I agree that when we have the
public hearing we we might hear um we're
going to hear I I mean I would have to
say that probably increasing the fines
we're going to hear from people that are
going to say this is going to be too
much of a hardship uh etc etc um in some
of our in some of our you know I'm just
saying I mean there's there's going to
be various opinions based on people's
income levels Etc where they're but I
get that we want to have zero tolerance
um so there's lot that's the term I'm
going to
use it's like out there and people
aren't really crazy about it yeah so I
mean we will hear all that in the H
hearing but but we're going to have to
still you know take all that information
in hand and still make our own decisions
based on as long as we're on good legal
standing that's that for me is a concern
oh yeah Abol make sure that we they
can't sue us or anything for that so as
long as we make sure that we have that
um because people are very petitious and
we get sued for a lot of things so can I
just ask what exactly do you are you
looking for from the law department for
Monday so i' say disregard no so I think
we're still in the uh information
gathering phase I think your perspective
was very valid and helped guide the
conversation so thank you but uh just to
capture I'm going to uh take a summary
of what I the notes I took I'm going to
ask everyone to still send your notes to
miss Miku um I will will cross compare
before Monday's meeting um but unless
there are other directions we'd like to
discuss I think M's point I'm not
willing I don't want to take just an
expedient approach but I want to ensure
that we are still working towards an
outcome yes that's I guess that's you
know because I I think we do hear it
often from folks that this Council you
know we hear that complaint that you
brought up earlier that we need to take
some action yeah so uh definitely thank
you for everyone taking the time I say
unless there were any other questions or
concerns we may have a motion to adjourn
so move second all those in
[Music]
favor can you provide transfer to us
I'll try yes if you yeah you know that
broke down while we meeting that's s we
we'll still help us um no you know when
it broke down the mayor was still up
there e