Um this is the followup for the last
meeting where we started to talk about
um fees and we also talked about um
there was the one point that Demani had
brought up on the rules um regarding
having the parent or guardian and what
age. So I think if we start um talking
about sort of fees and I know that uh
you guys have had we've been talking
about fees and how to manage Yeah. I
think these Yeah. So um and I did have a
conversation with Bill today also. So I
have some insight as to what you guys
discussed. So do you guys want to talk
about that?
Director of parks. Well, one of the
things we've looked at, Carmela, is when
we're looking at collecting the fees,
the we're not sure how many
non-residents we expect at the pool, as
in adults and kids, there's a concern
that we have some startup costs in our
budget that we're going to have to come
up with money
with. And without having any data saying
we expect, 1500 adults or there's a
concern that we're never going to make
that money back again. We're going to
have a deficit built already,
right?
So, it seems like maybe there's more
that has to be done um before we can
consider doing it for this summer. Well,
I think the one thing is last summer,
you know, we we we we rush to get
everything dug. You know, got our
chemicals in. Um we were
still sort of playing on the chemicals
the best way to run the pool, operate
it, and you know, a couple things I've
heard. And so, you look at that new
cost. So if we're looking at collect
fees, you know, obviously we're not
going to collect fees that are going to
offset the cost of our pool. It's not,
you know, the expenses running and
operating pool even for the, you know, 8
to nine weeks. I don't think we could
ever we can't recoup that much in in
Yeah, you can't do it in a 9 week
period. I mean, you know, we contract
out the lifeguarding, you know, you have
the chemicals. We have, you know, our
staff that's going every morning to
vacuum the pool, make sure the, you
know, the chlorine is the right level
before it even opens.
um we put in the in the budget this year
for uh security for the nine weeks. So,
you know, we don't, you know, look until
we get a the true cost, what it's going
to cost us on the pool. Um and the other
that came up with this, you know, from
one of the guys did here last year, one
of the things
was, you know, if we get all the
residents, if they have the proper ID,
they'll come in for free or do they pay
a fee? We don't know. non-residents do
they pay the fee or they log last year
because we didn't meet the limit on
capacity. It was hot last year.
There was some complaints that
um city residents couldn't be in the
pool. They're
taxpayers and you know we have non-
taxpayers because they pay well actually
have to pay you have a fee for them. If
people pay non- taxpayers then the tax
the payers they can't get in. They're
standing in line. We have to turn them
away. So there's things you know we have
to take into consideration. That's all.
Um you know with the fee structure um
you know we have fee structure non
residents and residents. We have a
capacity level. When we're full what
happens? you get, you know, half the
people they were going in and they were
paying customers because they're
non-residents, but then we have a bunch
of families out there with kids that
can't get in and they're city residents
and they say, "Well, we paid the taxes
to build this school." Yeah. Or
whatever. You know, so I think that's a
decision that has to be at least thought
about. Yeah. I think that um the last
couple of meetings that we've had with
this committee, I think we were all
pretty much in a we all were in
agreement that residents would not be
paying a fee uh to use to use the pool.
So I think the only thing that was under
discussion was was you know
non-residents but I think given the
given fact that you know we would have
different equipment that we would need
it we have to figure out staffing and we
haven't um thought about that in terms
of this year's budget. Um it seems to me
like we spend time you know still and we need data uh that you guys will
be collecting this summer. So it see it
seems like you know we have to sort of
put that idea of having the fee
structure sort of on hold so we have the
data and can make some decisions and
sort of return to that discussion so
that we're ready to go for 2026. We
tried to anticipate some of the costs. I
mean, like I said with the security, you
know, our chemical costs, you know,
different things. Um you know and you
know this we have a meeting scheduled
for next week um with Boys and Girls
Club
um to start talking about you know their
role
uh you know and again a contract with
them what their fee would be for this
year to operate in all three pools. Um
yeah so you know hopefully we'll meet
with them on Monday um and hopefully you
know it's a drought contract some ideas
just ask some technical
question you don't seem to have a quum
we don't so um I did check that we could
still move we have all these wonderful
people have come u but uh Dorian and
Demani are not here so we don't have a
quorum we can't vote on anything but um
we could still at least discuss some of
the issues and then next week when we
have city council committee. Um I'll try
to bring some things forward and
um and you know try to vote some things
out of committee if we have if we have
to make decisions. But I I think it's
sounding like um at least for the summer
of 2025 we may not be um might not be
the right timing to be able to try to
figure out a new structure for this
summer. Is is that what we're hearing
pretty much? You know, I you've been
doing a lot of research on I've been
looking at everything and one of the
things one of the questions I had is are
we going to charge out all the pools?
Well, that that is a decision that has
to be made. I think again when we've had
the last couple of meetings we've been operating thinking that what
we decide for one of the pools would be
the same for all pools. Um but I can't I
mean again without my colleagues here um
you know how do you guys feel about it?
Well, again, it's how we manage it. We
would, you know, if it's all the pools,
we have to somebody taking those fees
every day and all the pools. And who is
it? Who is it going to be? Is it are we
going to ask our our contractor, which
would be Boys and Girls Club, if they
want that responsibility and liability?
Is it going to be the city who put
somebody there? Um, and then at the end
of the day, you know, that would have to
come to a city hall or a golf course or
somewhere where, you know, Yeah. which
is and where do we collect it? I mean,
yeah, if you do it, you know, if you do
it at the one park, you
know, you know, somebody doesn't have
money, but he is a credit card. I mean,
I you know, it's just it's you go to the golf course and pay,
but if you're you know, if you're at
Hillhurst, not
quite Front Street,
right, we just have somebody at the gate
charging. Yeah. I mean, do we do
seasonal a seasonal fee where they can
come, you know, even to here, you know,
ahead of the season to That's one thing
you talked about when I spoke to Derek,
we had talked about the kiosk, too. The
kiosk came with a lot of different
options, but we have to get it
programmed. We have to have the option
of trans fee transaction, how's the
money going to be processed, maintenance
cost, what happens if our machine breaks
down, what do we do for the day now? So,
it's just not the basic, you know, I've
done some research on the basic cost of
the machine, but then there's everything
else added on top of that. Have you
would you um want to, you know, several
of the other pools locally do um charge
um maybe we should be trying to have a
conversation with some of those folks
about how they I mean, MSU is only their
resident state, but so they don't
charge. They don't charge. I I had given
all I gave all the materials to um the
building. So I had looked at comm
um Scotia
and this unit only lets in res which
again if we decide that that's what we
wanted to do then
same thing I mean we wouldn't be
charging a fee.
Yeah. But just to make clear, this is
not there's not a form. So this is not a
committee meeting, right? I know you
want to look through it today. It's
totally your call to do it, but you may
have to do it again next time in case
your other committee members want have
questions or want.
Yeah, I think maybe we should just
reschedu in place charge for the golf
course. We have it for the tennis. some
people take advantage of don't pay.
Uh the 26 budget is going to be a
challenge to get the numbers to work and
I can't
have things just kind of out in the
limbo. Got to have something in place
that I can manage and be able to uh
cover the appropriate cost. So, we have
to make those decisions before, you
know, so that we can um incorporate that
into the 26 budget, right? I need during
the 25 year to debug it to get it out,
whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
So, um I know the cost of the equipment
that we've talked about in terms of the
kiosk and that kind of thing. That's why
I asked Derek to come because I I spoke
with Gary. I started looking at some of
the stuff where Derek brought us some
good points that we needed to look at if
we were going to go to a kiosk.
Do you want to share those? Um like
basically touch on that was the
maintenance costs you know if it breaks
down what's the uh turnaround
someone come in and fix that. If it does
break down what we close the pool we
charge people we just let them in.
There's a lot of variables at play. Uh
then still, you know, we don't know if
we have the boys and girls up there. We
want them to mean that or be able to do
something if the machine breaks down.
But there's a lot of development to it.
Negotiations with our bank, right? Is
someone that's going to do for us? Well,
we have to pick a mering service and
find the best rate. Um so I mean that's
pretty easy. confidence out there.
This is summer we use nine weeks a year.
That's right. We use it nine weeks a
year. Yeah. Yeah. So then what do you do
with the
equipment here?
It wouldn't be nine months, right? Nine
weeks. Nine weeks. So I thought you said
nine months. I was like 9 weeks.
Yeah.
day or night depending on the weather,
depend on the calendar, depend on
staffing.
Yeah.
So, how well again another day another
day. That's I think we're going to have
to reschedule, but those are the
questions that we'll have to we'll have
to be prepared to try to figure that
out. We're going to have to reschedu
time to be able to help you, you know,
give you guys the
biggest analysis. Well, it's to be able
to implement it this year to order a
kiosk to modify the intake doesn't
happen overnight. I got to look at the,
you know, the golf course is doing well.
Got to look at the pools. Got to look at
the tennis courts we're going to put
money in.
I think whatever software you go with
should be used in the tennis
courts and vice versa. You know, could
be a kiosk that is versatile. If you, know, you want to play tennis, you
go to the house, you just pull one of
the parking meters up there and just
putters in to put your social security
number in and that should be license
plate. And this year the work schedule
for the tennis court, so there's not
going to really be no Yeah, the tennis
court.
Yeah, but we're going to spend a huge
amount of money on courts. Yeah, I got
to have a design to be able to handle
this. So, you want say that it's park
launch, anybody go in there and play.
They don't have to do anything and we
look like fools. I need to know that,
right?
I mean, I've been wanting us to be
charging for tennis, you know,
participation for there are some things
that we that we're looking at with the
tennis uh they know from uh 15 level
stuff. She hasn't got us back
information, but there is a program now
that they use to pay pass. So, it's
something we're looking at so we get so
when the construction happens,
everything's put in place already. So,
we don't have to go back take up again,
put everything in place. It's got to be
a software system that goes from like
gate entry. Yeah. that's given to you
from the the kiosk for the gate entry
gates are online and then when you enter on the
gate they report you in it's a I forgot
what you call it the name of it but it's
something that's big it's out in
Oklahoma the system she's getting more
information I tried to go on my credit
card number and stuff like I'm not
coming to Oklahoma but yeah Julie's
gonna you mean Julie's getting I mean is
going to be involved in this uh Amber's
looking at right now to get us stuff
into construction
Mr. Send the security
downstairs driver's license.
Not anymore. Never really did.
Never did. Your
ID record.
But is that equipment still there?
It might
be. Scan a driver's license. So if we
use driver's license, school ID is the
validation for entering. We might have
the equipment software already in
place. Most of that we did was input
information and it wasn't I thought
SC they're small because when I go to my
doctor's appointment, they take my
medical card and they Yeah. my ID, they
scan it at the fact they give it back to
me in, you know, 10 seconds. I mean,
they just got a little machine. They
scan my license cards. Does both sides.
Well, I mean, isn't that something that
Ban can help us figure out or somebody
on his team?
Is there a cheap intermission for the
first year where like the uh vendors
outside here that that uh you know do
the the the market out there they have a
small tablet like this that they're
using Apple Pay and we accept a Venmo or
Apple Pay just in you know
and get away from the kiosk and just go
with a small like we're sort and just
bang And this is it. This is all we take
Apple and Venmo and just pre-charge
them. And
that's just correct me if I'm wrong.
Nine residents or residents are free.
Correct. Or residents. I mean, we've
been saying that residents would be
great. I mean, we've been saying that
from day one, we'd be collecting just
from a a non-resident, right?
Non-resident, whatever that rate, you
set up this year to start as an
evaluation.
um a small program it be set on the desk
and I don't know if it's you know
seasonal do this or is it you know a
point person from boys and girls club
there may be you know but we wouldn't
have to pay I mean obviously if it's a
seasonal person we'll have to pay that
well
boys they're going to you probably want
to know where you went for your contract
negotiation with boys and girls so you
know that was going to be something that
we were we were going to bring that up
is you know if there is if the city does
set up some type of fee structure
residents is this something that was no
matter what we choose whether it's a you
know card system or something you know
are they interested in managing it for
us if they say no they don't want the
liability it's going to fall back on the
city and our staff to do it okay your
meeting is um after our city council
it's after Monday no it is Monday oh it
is Monday so maybe um would you be able
to you know fill us in so that when we
have this discussion I don't know what
we'll have for them because we're just
meeting for the first year you know I
mean they're not going to give us
anything back we usually typically go in
discuss you know the best date for pool
opening for closing the hours you know
they then figure out lifeguards which
you know they ran the new pool last year
the two pools are fairly easy they know
the staff they need for there they
probably have a fairly level of
confidence and what they need for the
new pool. It's just, you know, what's
their fee going to be for the new year?
Are we going to keep the same hours? Um,
you know,
how do you You pay them 180,000 180,000
last year.
Um, what do you guys think
about, you know, do we need to charge at
the other the other pools if we're
charging at this pool? I mean, this pool
is kind of a Cadillac of pools. So, if I
kind of am okay, but I don't know if
that's allowable that we would just
charge at one pool or do we have to
discussion?
What do you guys feel? I think it's
going to be an ongoing cost. So, if you
have it's going to triple your cost.
We're having three three seats now.
Yeah. ransom levels out with our cost on
the seasonal while alter 7h hour day and
then then the question becomes what do
we do at the end of the night if that
pool closes at 6:30 most of us permit
staff respond at 3 in the afternoon so
we're going to have to pay someone to
pick that money up to pick the money
back up the other thing is it's much
simpler but it's more
awkward city residents get in for free
you got to have some
ID anybody else has to pay and they have
to go to some other location to get some
type of card whether It's the golf
course or city hall, they have to
have
a city generated pass that would allow
them to go in. For that, they got to pay
$5, $20, whatever it is. Is it one day
for the seasons?
I I really like that using the resources
of city hall and having a pass. It's
just a onetime fee. Maybe it's just one
time because you don't have somebody
coming back. Well, I want to swim today.
I don't want to swim tomorrow. Next week
can be 100. You just This is the pass.
This is the cost. You get to use the
pool for the season. It's open. It will
turn people away at the pool. But I
mean, if you tell them the process of
what it is, it make that mean some
people are just here visiting, you know,
presenting relatives and they want this
unit turns people away from city connect
to the every day. Yeah. that they their rules are they only allow MSU
residents to use their
pools of city water.
I mean again that is also a decision
that we could make.
I know I you know I mean it was on the
draft rules that I you know had put out
so that we'll have to bring back up when
we have the rest of the committee. I
mean it be a lot easier if we did some
kind of pass out city hall ready to
handle credit cards and we don't have to
talk about all this would be
right to do it out here for credit card
transaction too. Yeah.
Is it's always easy for me to say I have
to talk to staff who actually do the
work sometimes have a different opinion.
I'd probably say it's already
established you have a clerk's office
that takes money and receipts. So, let's
do location is probably the best, but I
think we still need analysis of how many
people residents are going to be come to
the pools because it's not that many
have so many upfront costs. the cars,
the machines, but the best people's
mind. Well, we won't have I mean, it's
sort of a chicken and egg kind of thing
because we we don't have that data.
We're going to collect that data. Well,
we're hoping to collect that data
starting with this season. Poles like a
golf course. It's weather dependent. And
but we're we're in a nineweek season,
not a you know, April to November. I
mean, we're you know, you get a rainy
you know Oh, yeah. Yeah, June and July
your you season's shot and you don't get
good warm weather. People don't really
interest in swimming. So, we have a very
short
season and you know Bill, what are the
comps for a season pass and the other
they they really a lot of them just non
they say non-residents and that's it.
Like the mayor was
saying you can't get in. I think has I
think Gild
I thought I seen them in that package.
Yes. Yeah. Um Gild does season pass
season passes for Gildan residents only.
A family pass is $125 includes members
of a household and individual pass is
$75. Then they do adult lap swim. So
they have charges for that. Um they do a
public open swim. The fees they do
charge $5 for adults and $3 for children
six to 14 and seniors over 60 and
children five and under are free. Um
resum all residents only. It's residents
only. What meeting again when we talk
about we close at 6:00 now to get nice
evenings maybe keep the pool open into
the evening. uh the chief of five8 when
518 comes up that might
be something where we charge for that.
You got to pay and we have to staff it
to the open dump again even where
residents would pay something to go in
for you know limited time they have I
think they lessons in the morning to
open. Yes. Morning lap swim in the
morning which it gets used frequently.
Well, pool was designed for that uh
resistance, count flow, resistance flow.
So, people who
are had knee surgery, hip replacement or
whatever, going through therapy, all
they're doing is really walking the
loop, but
the water creates resistance. So, it's I
think most of the time the people who
use that, they went early in the morning
because they avoided the all the kids.
Yep. And you know there might be
something where if you did something
after hours it's more an adult right to
the same you pay you pay five bucks 10
bucks for that. I mean, I think it be
limited lifeguarding because you're not
looking at the whole pool. You're more
adults there that, you know, if the boys
and girls clubs, whatever nights were
going to be extended hours for an adult
therapy swim, I don't know, you know,
where people go in and did the
resistance and did the lab pool and they
weren't, you know, weren't 300.
I think we're going to have to get
recommendation from you guys on this.
Um, I mean, I don't think that we can
just
But city council recommendation I got
gave recommendations on the fee
structure for the
uh VA soil reservoir. We gave
recommendations on garbage collection.
I'm done giving
recommendations recommendations on
contracts that we've gone through.
So want you to get your colleagues just
to make a
decision. We'll work from
there. I prefer anything past 70.
I'd like to see the data that Boys and
Girls Club had that said how many people
were turned away from the pool last year
because of overflow. Well, they have
that data from last year. I didn't ask
about that. They had data, but it's all
on paper and it's all by zip code. When
I looked at it with
12309 to giant zip
code, right? Right. But I mean in the
future if the need is to set the fees to
discourage non-residents from coming or
do it at a price because we don't have
enough room for the residents. That's a
good point. I'm going to call I'll give
her a call and ask her what the how many
days did you have to shut the pool off
because you reached capacity and do you
have an estimate of all the time you
shut off capacity? Was it midday? Was it
late in the day? Was it towards evening?
Okay, that'd be great.
Call again. put that down. If if we made
a decision that it was just going to be
residents only, right? Then then it's
residents only, then it's residents
only. And if we make the decision that
res,
right? You know, right? And I mean, we
definitely had those issues last year,
but I I feel that it's anecdotal. So, I
think you you know, talking to Julie and
getting I'll see what you see what they
have, you know, I'm not sure if they
have that kind of data. I know they had
the the zip code one cuz I looked at all
of it. She had stacks of it. She could
tell. But when I started looking, I go,
"Yeah, they had zip code 126."
Yeah. Yeah. But I think that would be a
good one. How many times will the pool
shut off? Because that would be a key.
How many times did they reach the
maximum limit and shut off midday and
there's a rotation? I mean, how many
people are going to stand? If you're
telling me it's 90 degrees, I got to
stand in line. I got to wait 12 hours to
get in the pool. I'm leaving. I can
stand there. Last year there was also a
novelty factor. So people want to go for
the first
time. We had
some fairly high temperature days too.
Yeah. right when you first opened
especially I think it was over 100
degrees the week that
those were the days where we you know we
struggled with um you know being allow
some people in because we were set
capacity
for those when we looked at the other
communities they didn't say well grandma
showed up and she wanted to date us cuz
she had the kids that were from the city
here see so because I thought that
argument said well what if grandma here
if you if you say no non-resident if
grandma's grandchildren come up from New
York City they can't one.
I don't know what this I mean that we've
gone over we've gone around and around on that one and I don't see
anything that involves anything that
says oh by the way if they come up you
will be allow and swim. It's just you're
not a resident you're not allowed. It's this idea of do you allow what they
all and this is only two of them
actually but um so I think there's
others but we I can I have them on my
computer at home too. Um because I think
what a lot of a lot of them say is it's
open to residents but residents can have
up to three guests. Um so then um we
started on that number. We'll have a
heart connected residents with 300
guests in the pool and it has
non-resident guest like Gilderland is
charging non-resident guests of resin a
fee. How do you I know who determines
how do you know and you bring somebody
you know just my grandchild. Well,
that's why I think also we have to talk
to the books that run these schools as
well. You know, how do they how do they
do it? Sometimes there's rules, but what
really happens is not always the wits.
Mhm. And I think the city school
district has some universal
he was at the thing. I wanted to talk to
him but he was a bit too busy because I
think that's a system that if we could
get access to that platform so we could
punch Paul Leond in says all Paul Leaf
goes to Woodline and all it does is put
his picture up the body you can go in
that's all we need to see that way the
handlebars connect to the kids I think
they have physical ID too kids have to
bring the ID they do I mean that's you
know Demani has has said that I haven't
seen elementary yet oh I don't know that
the high school that's what I've always
thought it's junior All right. Well, not
bad. It's like 6 right now or
go.
Yes. It was It was even like that, but
now it's
You know what? I'll call Dr. Cotto and
I'm sure he'll probably refer me to
um what's his name? The athletic
director. Well, Jason Wall. Jason.
Right. I mean,
but I'll I'll take responsibility. we've
been waiting for uh someone else to do
it. So, um
I mean I don't see a problem with the
elementary kids. I think that's an easy
that's a doable one. As we get into the
older kids, that becomes a problem in
terms of
when you start to get to the 15 16 year
olds. Well, I forgot my ID. I didn't
have my ID. One of the things that we
had didn't, you know, anyone over 10
years old must have their Stanty City
School District photo ID or an ID. uh
you know and you know anybody from 5 to
10 they have to have a talented with
them because you know I mean and I
thought we we had discussed it at you
know 10 years old I thought they they
had you know IDs are 11 you know what I
mean so 11 years older they got their
school ID like the mayor mentioned and
you know you have school ID you get in
enjoy yourself for the
day anybody younger has to have their
adult you know with them and they have
to be you on the full deck with them
because that was some of the rules. Yes.
So, I think um this did go um via SAM to
city council. Um Yep. Thanks. Thank you
for sending it to Sam. So, um I'm going
to follow up and basically, you know,
I'll put in a legislative request to
have this uh on the agenda for Monday.
at least the rules accepted and and I'm
going to tell them we have to be
prepared to you know make a decision
about these rules that you guys are
recommending here. Okay. I'm sorry. What
rules are you talking about?
These so the rules don't need a
resolution. The rules are um Oh, you
guys just decide we don't have
[Music]
to the fee structure until the council
is the deal. Okay. Maybe um what the
council could change that if you want to
take the power away from it. No, you can
do that. Yeah, you're not going to do
that.
Yeah. So, um I guess what I could do is
just um write something up that would be
sort of a recommendation about fees
um that I would run by you guys first.
Um and I would send that out to city
council before Monday and say we have to
make a decision about this on Monday.
Does that sound reasonable? Sure.
Okay. And so we don't have to Yeah, that
we don't have to assess it. You
mentioned that before you did it. I'm
sorry.
Yeah. Can we make
them checks all pay too? I mean I like
the idea of a season a season pass
because then it is they come here to
someone and they get charged for the
season and then they have that season
pass and that's how they get into. So it
really eliminates I eliminates the
bottleneck at the pool because when you
come to the pool you're going to say are
you a resident or you're a non-resident
you got to go over here and do this.
We're going to have a big bottleneck
there if we don't have something that's
like you have to come see I'll get your
pass and get your
passport of responsibility off of a
teenager from the Boys and Girls Club
having to enforce that. I mean it's like
sort of cut and drive, right? You kind
of we have to be responsible for that
has to be I'm sorry. Can you not even
know if boys and girls say they didn't
what they did to do
that and we have to pay for staffing. Is
it a photo ID?
We can squeeze me, but the idea that
we would be right through the fence.
Yeah, actually toss the castle to the
other. No, we talked about that with
Julie. We talked about that there. We
have to come up with a banding system,
she said, because one of the problems
that she she anticipates that they've
seen is people get in, our bathroom
doors will open from the inside and out
because it's open for tennis. So once
you're inside that pool, you can walk
into the bathroom. You can let other
people you can walk in. You can walk in,
you can go right in. So it has to be
something that can identify you because
you've been passed through the pool that
we know who you are, why you got in. But
so that means I I
guess is this right that we would have a
season pass that perhaps they would get
here, some sort of photo ID. I'm making
this up as I go along, but then when
they get to the pool on Tuesday, they
have to get a band or you sign in when
you come to the pool and take your
season pass. that goes in the box and
when you leave you get your season pass
that will stop the passing of the passer
now. Okay. We have to come up with some type of thing. You get a band, you
go in, you leave your pass here and when
you leave you come to the desk and they
check you out and you get your your
band,
but we banned you when you come in. That
way we know because she said that's a
problem. Bands aren't expensive. They
get the ones you get when they get the
carnival when you you take the kids for
the rides and get the all day pass. So
step one is season
pass that you get here.
Step two, you show up. You show your
pass
and you check in and you get panned and
you pass the solid until you come back
out. The other place that's set up to
take payment is the golf course. It's a
lot closer to the park.
If it can be done, maybe it doesn't have
to be photo IDed if it could be scantron
and then we could show if we have a
system that showed that the scan only
once a day scan that scan right past the
past school ID we can find I'll find out
if the school ID is photo ID
but if you know if you're a resident
we're just tracking and coming in
because there's no fee for
residents laying city residents come in
for free. So, we're not charging it. No,
we just want you to identify when you
come in as a city resident. So, it's
then you'll have the data so that again
when we try to
reconvene later after the season, we
make some decisions based on data about
how many residents versus non-residents
used our pool. Well, we do an exit
survey of what happened for the course
of the year and and look at right what
we had using our pool. But again, if
you're going to let non residents in,
right? But again, that decision still
has to be made. So that no not residents
aren't going to come
in and is there, you know, and there's
no fee structure for residents. Well,
okay. That would be a whole rule. So
that would not be city council. That
would be staff making that decision,
right? Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah.
Unless you want to make it a local law
and it can be sold at city council. I
think
that again I can't I can't speak for my
colleagues because we don't have a
quorum but um to me that seems like
that's a full rule.
Yes. Thank
you. So you guys can tell us um on
Monday about that.
This has been outlined by staff before
for
I Yeah. I mean me too. I mean, I was the
first person to put the draft out there.
So, we've had
I went to the old pool. I seen I
happened to be up at music table today
because they were doing something and I
looked over and there's rules on the old
pool. So, I went down and show pictures
of it. Oh, yeah. They're a little bit
different from classic standard pools.
Yeah. Well, it's it's like no climbing
down the fence and stuff like that. It
kind of crosses over because if you're going to charge a fee, that's
up to the council. you're going to
charge a fee for
non-resident. So, it kind of crosses
over into But if we make a rule that
only residents are going to use the if
only residents are the pool, if there is
no there's no fee, right? But if they
leave that open, then you the city
council chooses to put a fee in then.
Well, then he can make the rule because
it's his rule.
You can do it like the supporting
council. If they don't want it, they
want it. there's some that's a major
policy. Well, I think if you guys could
make that recommendation on Monday and
then we at least we have the chance to
talk about it at the table and I'm going
to be emailing my colleagues and saying,
you know, I really need you to be there
to have this discussion because we can't
we have to make these decisions with we
have to make certain decisions
um by budget time.
Right. Does that sound reasonable? Oh,
before the budget because the pool's
going to be open up this year, right?
Well, whatever I write up, I'm going to
be running by you guys before I share
it. So, I mean, we look at the fee
structure. We have to be cognizant of
the fact is is what's our startup cost?
No, this we're not budgeted to bring
this help on. It's not in the budget
with me. There's nothing here to do that
this year. So, if you're going to set a
fee structure, it can't be something
nominal on the fee. It has to be enough
to cover our cost at least to make sure
that if it's going to be a $25,000 bill
for us to collect and set up or whatever
cost. That fee has to be commensurate to
say, "Listen, we're going to pull at
least we know we're going to pull 25,000
back. We don't want to say we're
collecting fees and it cost us 25,000.
We took in 20." Well, again, I mean, at
the start of this meeting, I feel that
we I I just don't think we're going to
be able to do that for this season. I
mean, we don't
I think what we're trying to do is maybe
just recoup whatever we can. It's or
offset the cost of operating the pool.
Maybe it just is covers of cost of the
typo where it covers something. It's
just not totally 100% you know um you
know benefit to the residents, you know,
they pay nothing. Um but that again is a
decision of council to be made. we're
not going to make ourselves whole. Not
paying, you know, $200,000 a year almost
in, you know, um fees for uh
lifeguarding services. And then on top
of that, the chemicals for all three
pools and then, you know, our
maintenance costs and the painting of
the pool, you know, um the power of the
pool. I mean, if you look at all these
costs and you know,
security, there's no way we're ever
going to be even nearly made whole. I
mean, it's just a we're right going to
take it. There's no way that fuel fees
are going to do that and we would know.
I mean basically we have a 2025 budget
that has in it the cost of operating the
pool. What our expense
4,42 our expense is about 4,4200
ton of
chemicals chemicals. Oh welling that's
yeah probably more than if we have 400
people in the pool worth $300,000 4200
divided by you know for those 9 weeks.
So 3,000 divided by the 9 weeks.
I mean we are not going to make up those costs with bull fees. I mean I
mean it's 1050 fee to to hold the
non-residents down. So it's only
connected. I mean it goes
I was saying a day by
3500s are close 3500.
Yeah. to make non-p perishable goods.
You have to bring a soup can and a box
of macaroni.
I mean, I can tell you that the people
that are probably using the pool, even
though we don't have the data, probably
could benefit from having a non-p
perishable food item given to them at
the gate of the pool. So, um, but that's
an assumption on my part.
Um, okay. $60,000 for chemicals sold.
I don't have the budget with me, so I
know
I think I bought 60,000.
Do you have a total figure total expense
figure at the end there?
What's hard is we don't know your
maintenance cost of the building. about
$365,000
full the full expense. Well, you got
it's full maintenance. Um you look at um
because we did put security staff in
this year for 28,000 the maintenance
work which are 15,000. Um then you get
down into uh fees for services which is
$1,000. 64 uh chemicals uh supplies is
another repairs is 36,000 supplies is
6,000.
7,200. Um, you know, we heat we heat the
pool building all year. These are these
are our costs. Uh, total pool
maintenance $154,000. Then you get down
into pools recreation. We've got budget
$22,000 for a piece for services, you
know, u$ 1,700 for
supplies, $5,500 for repairs. Uh, so
yeah, 210 plus the 154 36. And that
doesn't include your life, right? No, it
does. That's total. That does give like
365
I got
16. Yeah. Do we have anything though
that we get out of CDBG? I mean we had
No, we don't get No, I don't think so.
Nothing to the pools out of there. Okay.
I mean that's sort of
a a philosophical kind of
argument, you know, to what extent is
the city wanting to
res take
this $65,000 that
return our
total total
parks come into our parks. Yeah. Um,
right.
I I think it should be used to
discourage people to make sure that
residents have enough room to enjoy it.
Well, again, if we decide that we're
just residents only. Um, that's right
out right out of gate.
right off the I forget what you call
that thing that you dive off of in a
swim deep but
right off right off the platform. We're
already knowing that. So, um, all right.
Well, I'll try to summarize this uh what
we talked about in terms of fear not to
be resident, non-resident. Well, I think
that's a big one because we talked about
we're going to charge a fee and now
we're starting to demonstrate if we went
to a kiosk, there's the cost started to
do the kiosk. We've got all these costs
that are associated with the way that's
not in that. It's not in this budget,
right? Can you just I mean do you want
to share um what what you've come up
with in terms of what the costs are for
those the we just have I have a basic
number for the the kiosk without being
pulled $8,500 and then like when we did
talk there's probably another 3500
$4,000 in cost to be added on
paper I don't know what maintenance
fees and then if we're running our own
help there that that comes up at a
totally different over there.
It's only the kiosk. Well, it's kiosk.
There's other there's other equipment.
There's
other
Well, if we're going to run for an 8week
season,
just 300, we have to cover 392 hours for
the season. That's about
$6,000 for somebody to collect fees that
seasonal person. Then we have to figure
the cost of the park supervisor.
Somebody that's going to have to go back
after hours to make sure they picked the
cash up. Yeah, that unless we did it
unless we did a season pass and um they
bought it here, right? Unless we did
something like that. That's one of the
options. But this is a trailer
prosecuting app that somebody was there
collecting money and doing whatever it
would cost us about 6,000. We would have
to have that supervisor go back after
hours. Look at city hall. Everything's
closed. We'll close this at 6:30. We'd
want at least one of our our permanent
guy picking that money up, the money
back up and then bringing it the next
day down here.
No, that's or case directly to the bank
and makes a deposit with the bank, but
then he's going to have to count it,
make sure the money's right. Well, we
have um
for security for the 16
hours. Yeah, can be somebody there that
you know until again again you can't
make decisions without but I mean I I
just think that trying to do that as
opposed to having a season pass which
streamlines it a lot. You come in here
get your season pass money's already
being handled in this this building
already we're geared up to handle credit
cards and everything here. That's if
again I have to back up that if we make
the decision that it's residents only
and we make a decision that it's
residents free. You're saying that
that's not the private council. That's a
pool rule.
Residents
only director can do that. I think the
parks director can do that.
the
policy supports.
Okay. It doesn't matter what time
residents will be happy they get to
swim.
Okay. So,
I'm going to make that decision. It's
the fee structure the council has to do,
right? So, most of that's going to be
down residents.
So if you want unless it's a resident
only well if you want to
override if you charge a fee then I
would say if the council enacts
legislation saying you can come in 20
bucks that would override the parks
director's decision
a council member
he's not on the committee he's not on
the committee so we can't make no so we
just were having some discussion but we
couldn't make any we're in trouble
I I can't really speaking.
I was like, "Oh my gosh." So, thank you
for coming because Mr. Muran is coming
from a very large grand opening of the
guy in this community center. So, it's
very nice of you to leave that and and
you charge them residents.
[Music]
No, that's a good idea.
So, comes to get a bag of food, he's got
a bag here. Yeah. Basically, at next
week's city council committee meeting,
you're going to have to do health and
recreation and um we have to decide uh
well staff um decide rules for the
pools. We just have to decide if we
would be having a fee and if so then we
would have to be deciding what the fee
is. So, so city council does the fees,
these guys do the rules. The the the
bottom line is if for example there's
two things, it's not these guys, it's
the park story. The park story. Oh, the
park. Sorry, Billy. I was trying to
But so if if we say if they say it's
going to be residents only in our pool
and then also then we say residents are
going to be free, which is what we have
been saying. um then this is sort of a
moot point. But we also just
discussed how much the expense is for
running the pool which is about
$365,000 a year. Um but you know yeah
the three three the three pools. So I'm
sorry. So it really winds up being
somewhat of a mutual decision because
although staff makes the rules the
council sets the fee sets the fees. So
if you set a
fee for non-residents and that is within
the council's prerogative it that's
correct it would have written Mhm. So it
really winds up which is what the mayor
was saying. Is there any recommendation
from
this? Come on. I know we talk. I've been
trying recommendation. Make it simple.
Let's move forward. Let's go with four
garbage bags.
We need a pool. You already you already
that apparently we don't make a lot of
decisions about recommendations. Uh so
we've already had that. Yeah, we need we
need to do something ASAP because well
yeah because they have to have it for
the because also there's the matter of
um if we decided to have fees I can fill
you in later but they need equipment
they need credit card fee I mean there's
credit card fees there's um so all of
that would have to be part of the budget
machines we could do a budget
reappropriation to buy these equipments
uh so that you can process those cards
and things like
I vote three. Sorry, I'm I'm voting
three. Th free for what? Non-resident
for
residents. I think that the committee is
Yeah. Yeah. I think that was that's a
no-brainer. Everybody since the budget
time was resident is free non-resident
if
we allow non-residents. If we allow
non-residents to even use the pool. This
unit does not it's residents only. Um I
believe we said that uh it was colony I
think well no one
they don't allow um I mean unless there
were guests of residents then they would
have to pay um that's but otherwise it
was residents only but that you guys
would but we can override it but I would
not recommend overriding a
staff recommendation from the parks the
only time there was any disappointment
last year when the pool was at capacity
and non-residents were swimming and
residents couldn't get in. So even if
you have a fee structure, if
non-residents get there and then they
say at our limit, then residents aren't
getting in. But the same thing if it's
at capacity with residents, at least
it's capacity with residents. Um, so
it's something just to, you know, I
think as the mayor said that it was, you
know, a novelty last year, Albany was
down their pools, right? They were
they're now they're now building a pool.
I don't know if it'll be ready for this
year.
That's a big
When we uh when we discussed something
back, we were talking about can we were
talking about pulling a report based on
zip code to see how the kind of fear
among we can do that but then
unfortunately Jenna the zip codes don't
you have 12309 it should be part of the
city part of this
unit runs out of Belleview.
So it's not an accurate
I kind of like that idea too being
residential only.
Yeah. And it's not like that we are the
only ones doing it in
this colony. Yeah. I don't have that but
um take care of take care of our
residents. I know it was
but I've looked at some other ones like
other communities outside the state and
most of them say residents only. They
all residents only. I'm pretty sure
something.
Let's simplify it. Make it simple. Now,
do you change the rules at the other
pools? You let them
always at the
other people talk with them. Where are
they going to go? They want to go to
Quacken Push. No, we're going to go to
Central Park. This this poll is only
residents and then you're free to go to
That's an interesting point. Actually,
it looks like the student charges fine
for rapes uh
non. But so they do allow non residents
of
age for pet
342
season just for the card. Well, it does
say that uh the alien range for adult is
$10 and res.
So everybody's paying but they I mean I
think that's what this is too that these
pools if it's it's if a resident is
bringing a non-resident guest and has
breakdowns for children. Yeah. That's I
mean we looked at I'm telling you you
could have a spreadsheet that would have
you know 20
columns that's different all these
various local pools you have residents
bringing in non-residents. We're going
to have more we're going to have
residents in the non-residents in the
pool where residents are going to be
excluded because we were allowing
non-residents in the
pool. Now, could that be because we were
novelty last year and the weather was
hot? And then we talked
about for example, and this was more
last last meeting, um if if I'm have
grandchildren that are from out of state
and I'm a resident and I'm trying to
bring my grandchildren, then what do you
say? But I guess he just would say
that's the resident, but we'd have to
have a guest policy as well. Those would
be rules, right? That seems those would
be staff
recommending people in the pool like
which residents non-residents really I
mean it sounds like a rule but it's
bigger than that. It really is a policy.
I do think it's a joint because of the
fee structure following on the council
and the rules decisions being with the
parks director. I don't give it a I mean
the council has to make or has to put
their voice in as well
in terms of the rules. Yeah. the policy
whether whether it's going to be
residents only or or whatever or there's
going to be a fee. Nobody's construction
of their pool is expected to be finished
their
Oh, sometime right. We are we're going
to see an influx of people from Albany
again. Yeah, it's Yeah, I think we
should reach out maybe reach out to them
and see if they may not be open for
Here's one from New Jersey. Only Bayon
residents permitted to use in the pool.
There's another one
from Department Leisure Card issued
leisure
card. Can we put a sign right there that
says Beo, New Jersey, not 12?
It's all the policies. Philly has an ID
card. You must purchase your ID card
before you use the pool. You must come
and get your ID card, which we also
talked about. We did talk about
everybody resident and non-resident
before they use the pool. So that way
you have a better tracking, you know.
Yeah, we actually talked about I I'm
going to call Dr. photo to find out if
there's, you know, the school ID. If the
if if it's a photo ID, if students have
a school
ID July 4th, did you guys hear that?
It's usually about a week before we
start. I spoke to Julie and she
said 302s two
304s you know she was seeing all those
from all
so well I think people come visit their
friends simpified forward right so we'll
have to do it on Monday yes simplified
move forward if we have to move the fee
or we don't have the fee we
just res
if you can residents in for
park structure can set the rules if
you're going to have a fee for
non-residents or you can just say it's
strictly for residents and that's it.
There is no fee structure residents with
the proper ID are let in. That's it.
I I also want to remind us all that
again we can if we make these decisions
right for 2025 and then at the end of
our season we evaluate and decide you
know did this work did that work what do
we want to do for 2026
I think that that was going to be we
should do that
resident only and move forward this year
let's see how it works and then come
back
for the discussion. Yeah, it's going to
have to go through the QA next week.
I might call you just for talk about
I'll put in legislative request that for
th on
th Monday, right?
Yeah. I'll put in a legislative request
that we'll make the decisions.
policy not
well I mean it's council administration
but open soon so
that's why we want to do it yeah so you
don't want to put us in discussion we
want to put it here we can follow okay
but
because this is the third meeting at
that we at least the third meeting where
we had discussion So of health and
recreation committee. So
okay. Well, thanks guys. I'm really
sorry that I apologize on behalf of my
fellow health and recreation committee
members. Um
where we need this. I know you are. I
know. I talk to Billy a lot actually. So
thank you very much all of you.
And
that's okay.
Half a meeting. I'll be happy to move
forward. We knew we were looking at what
was the total cost per day, do you say?
If you have,000,000%,
you
haven't program.
So they need more life to the park
right in the central park.
You know we have a pledge for security
there for nine weeks will be open
because of the vandalism at night but
once the pool covered after the nine
weeks eight I don't know if is.