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Today, April 7th,
2025, we have a couple of
presentations. Uh, the first from
Saratoga Associates Connect Economic
Impact Report, Mr. Maharkin.
And you want just the floor right over
and then get started. Okay. Okay. Okay.
I'm just going to hand these out.
Let's see if you go that way. Go that
way. Sir,
how are you? Well, how are you? Thanks.
Some of these people that are listening
online, so
this may be the first time I've ever
been given a microphone. Um, and I
normally don't need it.
Does this work?
All right. Um, well, good evening
everyone. Uh, what you have here is the
city parks economic impact report that
Saratoga Associates worked on uh this
summer and fall after the completion of
the central park. And in discussions
with the city, we really wanted to try
to make a connection between the
economics, the economic impact with the
environmental and the health impacts.
Those were all positive, but we really
wanted to show uh really what the
economic impact would be. So what we did
was my friend here, Mr.
uh came up with a report which kind of
shows the methodology that goes into
these studies and we think it's really
uh something that's got some real weight
to it and validity. So Jackson, do you
want to give us the highlights? Yeah,
pass the microphone over. So thank you
folks for having us here for allowing us
to talk about this report. So just kind
of going to go through kind of the big
points about it. I think the big points
and then you know after that if you have
any questions we be glad to talk about
how we got to those results or anything
uh if it's within the report but big
kind of finding is that there's almost
15 million dollars each year in impact
that these parks provide and we kind of
looked at it uh in four distinct
buckets. We looked at it first from the
perspective of you know the racial
equity income of equity excuse me that
sort of thing. Um what we found is that
really skinny compared to peers like
Albany um is a much much
more equitably distributed parks system.
There's a lot
more access across income across race
for folks to go and enjoy these parks.
So that was the first thing we looked at
because the impact in these parts it's
going to be very different if they're
concentrated in a certain place or
certain folks get the reap the impacts
of it and some don't. But what we said
found is that it's really
well certain. So that was the first
thing that we found. The next big point
was on the environmental side and what
we did is we looked at these parks and
we said okay what if these parks weren't
here? What would that environmental
impact look like? And kind of the short
of that is that we found more than half
a million dollar in storm water savings
from these parks. And so we were really
excited to see that. Uh the next one was
on property values. We looked at it as
to how these parks actually improve real
estate around parks.
What we found is that each year the
value of being near these parks and from
that the increased property values
resulted in almost
$700,000 in additional taxable revenue
for this connectivity. Um and then the
last thing we looked at is what is the
consumer surplus and what is the uh sort
of input output value of the operations
that are done here and uh you know the
amount of folks that come and spend time
here. So to do that, we use cell phone
data cuz we assume that most folks have
access to cell phones and based on that
we could get a number of the amount of
folks that go to the park, when they go
to the park, where they came to the park
from, and then from that could describe
the value of that park uh visit. And we
did that using a method technology
developed by the US Army Corps of
Engineers. Um, and so again, from all of
those numbers, we came up with almost
$15 million in impact these parks
provide each year for these cities of
Skenctity. So, we're really proud of
that. Yeah, I you know, to so to be
honest with you, it's we've seen studies
like this before that indicated it was a
seven or 8:1 value for uh every $1
invested, there's eight $8 of some sort
of direct, indirect, or induced economic
impact. and the proof is in the pudding.
Uh we're really proud of the report. Um
we're really proud of the work we've
done with the city and the city should
be very proud of it system. Um does
anyone have any questions?
Very proud of our system.
Mr. So you said you use cell phone data.
Yes. In order to Can you tell us a
little bit more about that? Like where
did you get the data from? Yeah. So
that's a great question. So there's a
tool called
Placer AI or excuse me. Um, and that's a
site where they basically work with self
providers and folks like that and they
buy that data in bulk and they anonymize
it and then they allow you to go and see
basically for a specific area how many
folks leave go to that that area where
they went to before, where they went to
after. Um, so it allows us to get really
detailed data about who is it that goes
to these parks, where are they going
before they go to the parks, where are
they going once they leave the park. Um,
and then from there get some really cool
uh valuable insights from that. Now, now
Jackson, we also I believe we got that
from cuz that's what Parks and Trails
New York did as well. So that's Parks
and Trails New York came out with a
study last fall that used similar
methodologies. So we followed that. We
work cell phone. Hey, what was it
called? Uh what what's it called? The
site itself is placer.com.
Placer. Yeah. And that's in the report.
So you go there and check out what
they've got.
No, it's really useful information. I
was surprised that they can compile data
that way, but it's it's almost uh scary
what they can do to be honest with you.
But yeah, the the data here is, you
know, we did a lot of thorough research
as most departments here can tell you
with respect to it. So, we're very
confident in this information and, you
know, if anyone has any questions, feel
free to reach out to us. But, uh, we're very uh very proud of it. Yes,
sir. Um, so my question was on the uh
the counter. Have you recognized any uh
dollars that reductions based on a lack
of maintenance or upgrades to
parks? That's a good question. I don't
know if you want to answer it, but I I
would say, you know, frankly, if you
have stuff that is wellmaintained, it
needs less maintenance and it needs less
replacement. So, I mean, all of those
things are factored in operations and
maintenance, new construction,
replacements, those sorts of things. So,
uh, there's a there's a lot of
references, there's a lot of data, and obviously anyone can reach out to us
with
questions.
Anyone
else? So, uh, could you talk a little
bit more about the income and racial
equity that you talked about and how
that came, you know, how you came up
with the data and exactly what you mean
by that? Sure. Yeah. So, I think that's
a great question. So, what we did is we
looked
at census data. We looked at the
10-minute walk shed. Based on that, we
went down to the block group level and
we looked at places that had an above
average percentage of uh folks of either
low income um of a minority group to
non-white. And um we also looked at
national origin. So that's a little bit
different. I don't need to go into those
distinctions here for you folks, but we
looked at those factors and we looked at
those same factors in places like Albany
um and compared basically what does it
look like down in Albany? What does it
look like here in Skenctity? And from
those factors, we can look that say
Skcti is doing a lot better job because
of the distribution here of folks within
that 10-minute walk shed compared to
places like Albany. And one one thing I
would add to it is that we do have
graphics that show the parks layout with
respect to the city. So you can see the
walkability and stuff. And it's also
interesting because with the park areas,
you can see the areas that have heat
islands and and and green islands and
those sorts of things to where there's
real te temperature
discrepancies. And there's also one
point I didn't uh speak to there, which
is also we looked at which is the access
for folks that don't have cars. We
looked at the access by public transit
to the parks as well. Um and looked at
those stats and again compared those as
well to peers like Albany. Yeah. And and
one thing I would say is that the you
know the municipal golf course is a real
asset to the community because it adds
so much to the other programs that are
out there. There's not a lot of
municipal golf courses that that
generate a regular profit the way they
do here and it's a credit to the entire
staff.
Yes.
Oh, so overall you said you no problem.
There's so you say your report says
there's over more than 14.8 8 million in
economic value annually based on this
plan. Yep.
So that really is broken down and I
don't have the numbers. Go to the head.
There's actually a there's a breakdown
of those and it really is across those
four factors here. the environmental,
the economic. Um, but if you go to the
back end, there's a a little Excel sheet
that shows you and
I'm feel
free for the question. No, this one
right here. So, this is the breakdown
and then from there we break down where
we actually come to those different
factors, the different breakdown of the
values. Um, so one of the big things
you'll see is of course the value from
folks that come here that spend time
here that visit hotels and then shop at
restaurants and eat park as well. We'll
see that we speak about that. If there's
any specific questions, like I said,
glad to go more in depth. I do have one
now that I see the breakdown. So you're
saying over more than 9 million of this
Yes. is in visitor and tourism. Yes.
To our parks. Yes. And that means so
folks that are going to the parks from
spending time at USA Mona's
um of course baseball tournaments Mona's
um excuse
me yes all of the value from that and
the value that provides to vendors and
of course folks that live there too. So,
when we say that, that does, I believe,
also include the consumer surplus that
folks have from being able to go to
something like music haven for free um
as well as the increased uh income that
comes to the vendors from being able to
access that market there. Yeah. The one nice thing the uh Central Park
does in particular is it has so many
different types of events that brings
the community. So, it's just not one
sort of thing. It's not just disc golf.
There's a lot of folks coming in for the
baseball tournaments. There's a lot of
folks for the various festivals. There's
a lot of people for the road races, all
sorts of things. So, the programming for
it should be commended and it's really a
great asset to the city. So, in this $9
million, is it included any hotels? Has
it included those kind of other
amenities? Exactly. Yes. So, the the
spending that is induced from say
someone goes to a baseball game and they
have to bring their family. So they're
going to go stay at a hotel. They're
going to probably spend at a restaurant.
And so all of that spending we include
here because but for it being in that
park, you know, who's to say it wouldn't
be somewhere else, right? Um so that's
really what we look in that figure too.
Okay. Thank you. Is your hand moving?
No. Okay. Are there any other questions?
All
right. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank
you.
Yes. Thank you.
Okay. Uh so next conversation on current
findings.
[Music]
So, I prepared a speed report uh for the
month of March to go over. Just want to
make sure everyone knows kind of what
I'm getting at as far as uh what you're
looking at here. Start with a legend off
to the left. Uh starts with blue under
20, then goes up to green, yellow, red,
uh which is a darker shade of red after
it's over 40 there. And each node, each
uh UB hub that records data there spits
out two numbers for the month uh one in
each direction. And that is the 85th
percentile speed that drivers are
traveling at. So that's done
to eliminate any outliers such as
emergency vehicles that may skew data.
Gives you a real-time view as to how
people are actually driving.
All right. Just want to give everyone a
nice look at Belleview, Mount Pleasant,
Central State, and Woodlon. Uh we do
have some stretches that we monitor. Uh
Hamburg is one you see right there that
we're working on. Uh compliance there.
Watt Street right next to it kind of
makes that S-curve. That's one we're
taking a look at. Um into McDonald also
Clayton Road right over there. That's an
issue that we're trying to clean up here
as as the uh enforcement really picks
up. But uh Norwood Avenue is something
that I showed improvement on. That is
the stretch just above Alimont. Um
believe this node right here was red on
February's report. So, we've got one
improvement, but um I don't want that to
uh skew anything as far as it's only
March. We got this started in March. Um
it was even a discretionary roll out
from TD as far as ticketing goes. So, um
we'll hope that there's increased
compliance going forward. want to pan up
here to north side and upper Union
Street. Um, Rosa Road is another one
that we're monitoring there. That one
over into the 40s. And then, um, one
that I want to add is Belmont, which has
popped up as of recently. That yellow
node uh, kind of going parallel with
Wyoming Avenue there. That is another
one that we'd like to uh key in on.
But this is uh I feel like a little more
compliant to our speed compared to
February. So I'd say it's going in the
right direction. Only hoping not to
improve as uh like I alluded to with PD
uh issuing tickets uh without discretion
going into April here. Okay.
Um more that's it. So, um, one question
is we hear a lot of a lot from Kings
Road. Did you is there any I didn't see
any or hear any data. Kings Road does
did not uh make the list as far as
streets to monitor. I monitor them every
month or going back 8 n months. So, has
it popped up? It has not popped up. And
how does it pop up? How does that
determine if it if you got like a row of
road situation there where you got
multiple
reds kings?
Okay. Can you tell me how the reds
actually get there? Because, you know,
we're hearing from Kro that they are red
um or some color. So, can you tell me
how it actually turned cuz I was and red
was the red and darker red. Yeah, you
got a darker red that goes over there.
So, it's the UV hub getting the clear uh
speed of the car going by it. And like I
said, this is the 85th percentile of
speed. So removing any outliers that
would be caused by emergency vehicles.
So it's a real feel for the drivers as
they're commuting going about the city.
Any questions?
Mr. Williams, are you able to speak to
comparatively to other municipalities? I
know you're looking specifically at I
think as we look at certain issues
within the city, people think that
they're unique to our city where that's
why we're experiencing the same issues
other municipalities are dealing with. I
have not taken this and compared it to
say an Albany or a Troy, but that is
something open to do. Absolutely. Thank
you.
Should be noted there's I don't think
any other city in the capital district
has this level of analytic data
available to them. There are some other
cities across the country, but none are
as far advanced as connected.
Any other
questions? Thank you, Mr.
K. So, um, we're going to have to start
our committees now. And as you can see,
we have a very long agenda. So, look,
Mr. Les. So, I'd like to call up the
board of the public safety committee. We
have three items on the agenda tonight.
First of which is the STR grant, and
that'll be presented by Mr. Chief
Clicker AC.
Good evening. Thank
you. One or two people. I got to take my
glasses
off. Okay. So, so I come before you
tonight. Thank you for your time um to
ask for you to accept a grant that we
are receiving from the
state. Some background information. and
Governor Kathy Hokll allocated $23
million to equip law enforcement,
district attorneys, domestic violence
service providers, and other partners,
partnering agencies with the necessary
funding, guidance, and training to
effectively respond to, mitigate, and
prosecute intimate partner violence
through evidence-based, survivor
centered, trauma-informed, and
culturally responsive interventions.
Uh, as a county, we are eligible to
receive an award of
1,177,640,000 from DCJS that starts
retroactive to April 1st of this year
and runs to March 31st of
2026. I sit on the panel of uh of
dividing the money up. We all agreed to
give the the lion share to the YWCA as
our partner agency for Skenctity's part,
the Sket Police Department's part. We
will be receiving with your approval
$35,000 and
$35,718. and we look to spend that on
funding two dedicated detectives
dedicated to domestic violence, a
half-time crime analyst and also some
overtime funding and uh reimbursement
for cellular
phones.
Uh
one one position would need to be added
to our budget. We currently have a
dedicated detective that we that would
now become fully funded on the salary
line. Uh and the city would absorb the benefit line because she's a current
employee. This new addition will be
fully funded for salary and
benefits. And for the crime analyst,
again, this is also a current employee
who's been attached to the crime
analysis center in Albany. And it's the
model that we're building is to have
that person embedded there. So we
believe that we can get the job done
with her working halftime on this
project in collaboration with Albany
Police Department and other ones in the
capital region and we would be refund we
would basically uh receive half of her
salary as reimbursement through this. Um
but we would be paying the other half
plus full benefits for her.
So the uh the recommendation the request
is that we accept this strive grant and
be allowed to increase our
departmental's total budgeted officer
count from 167 to
168. Any questions or comments? So
county is eligible. Is that due to the
number of domestic incidents reported?
Why would we annual why we're It is. It
is. We're one of the highest in the
state. uh our numbers um as a city um
right now the only part one crime that
we see going up is assaults and they're
mostly driven by domestics.
So um you said that these are current
all current employees all with the
exception of one which we would which we
would then need to backfill. We would
hire. Okay. We would hire and so going
forward that that's something we have to
budget for the correct after this grant
is over. Okay. Correct. And so um well
but that being said um I'm told that
very similar to the gift grant they
don't expect this grant to go away
anytime soon. Oh okay. So it may be
funded into the future. Thank you. So
for for an employee that's currently
there you said that um half of the
salary would come out of this. Correct.
And okay. So if that employee is already
budgeted, does that mean how's what's
going to be the impact on what we
already budgeted for that person? And if
that person says part of this grant is
now going to pay their salary, how does
that impact the current budget? The the
net result is we will increase our
revenue line by
116,48 for this calendar year.
What was my question, Mr. Carly? So this
sounds like pretty good stuff. Number
one, chief, my question is you said that
you decided after being on your panel to
kind of get the lion share, I think it's
a term you used to say. Could you talk a
little bit about why you decided that
the investment would be better at that
end or more impactful if you will? Sure.
Um, you know, we all agreed that the the YWCA they are the specialists in
this line of work and we really wanted
to position them with funding which
they've for years lacked in order to um
to staff with with with some
specialists. So they have some victim
specialists. this is really victim
centered um to to get them to cooperate
more against the offenders and and and
to seek help sooner than later um to get
out of the situation that they're in. Um
they will be hiring the coordinator for
this project. Um and then they will also
be subsidizing some some of the um some
of the other staff members to put this
program on. But you know they they are
also buying some equipment to help help
the victims and to monitor some
offenders through probation. probation
is another partner of ours in this. Um,
so that that's why we we agreed and when
I say the lion share, they got the most,
not the lion share, they got 364,000.
They just they were the we agreed that
we needed to give give them serious
consideration on funding them as best we
could. Any other questions or
comments? Patrick, please.
No, you are you deferring to me. Um, I
just want to say I mean I'm really um
impressed with the staffing levels. Um,
especially I know the work that the YW
does in this in this arena and I was
thrilled to see you know all the various
positions at the Y that will benefit
from this. So um I think it's great. Um
but also you know too bad that we have
to do it but um thank you for getting
the grant. Yeah, I will give a lot of
credit to the to the YW.CA for for
years. we've been doing a lot of the
work that that's not built into this
grant. So, if you will, we we're a model
um of to help develop this grant. Um but
it's the work still hasn't been enough,
which is why we decided to add a second
investigator so that we can start
investigating the more minor offenses
that are now not being
investigated because they're not a
felony level. So, we are we are adding
some things to this grant that that are
going to allow us to hopefully uh see a change in those numbers.
Um yeah, um chief, well, I have here a
little separate issue um regarding the
recent arrest and raids by the Skenctity
Police Department. Um that's brought
renewed attention to the issue of
illegal cannabis sales here in the city.
Um just wanted to know if there's any
action us as a city council can take. Um
first of all uh to address the
properties where these illegal sales are
being held. Um and uh secondly uh what
action can we take against the property
owners who are allowing these sales uh
on operations on the properties?
Sure. Um you know so that's that's
something that you know we've been
working on for a while now um for some
years and uh we've been in discussions
uh really for for the last few months
with our corporation council with the
mayor's office with code enforcement and
uh you know I I would think that we will
be coming back to the council soon with some requests once we uh could do
our homework on this but there's uh to
your point I think there's a lot that
needs to be done with these properties
um because uh you know what happened
last week uh should not be acceptable to
anybody in our community. Uh, thank you.
So, I I'd like to I'm going to be
putting a legislative request in um
regarding this to see what what we can
do as a council uh for our April 21st
meeting. So, we'd like to make that.
Yeah. Appreciate that. Thank you, Mr.
So, this question
um knowing that the Y does a lot of
great work around this. I know that
there's a lot of community agencies and
you know a lot of protective factors
here in our community. I'm just curious
as do why do you think that we were so
high um as the you know pretty close to
top in the state like what do you know
like what are the contributing factors
to that? Like what do you think that
those are?
You know that's a question that we've
been trying to ask for a while. Our
district attorney kind of you know he
feels that's the density of our county.
we our population is pretty dense for
the size of our county because it it's a
per capita uh criteria that they use. So
he feels that you know the the the
density of our county could be one of
the reasons and you know other than that
we're trying to figure it out. You know
we're we you know the domestic violence
is is is very tricky to try to be
proactive to stop and it's really almost
impossible to proactively stop. the only
way we can we can address it is on that
first phone call we get and then you
know through education and things like
that one thing I would think just having
a thought around this I don't know if
it's maybe if it is finance that would
be the the right partner with that uh
Mr. mayor, but
I have a limited scope around
understanding this, but I know that
there's there were some connections made
between like the economic health of the
city um and far as like uh employment
things of that nature that have shown to
impact and this is like I'm just pulling
this off of memory, but just thinking
about like
how those things are contributing
factors. Um and I think this might be
more on the national scale, but I'm sure
it might be true here. So maybe looking
into that maybe that's something that
how another way that we could even
assist with this is like maybe looking
at both those data sets and seeing where
the you know connectivity is if there is
any around like our city unemployment
rate our you know city's financial
health and you know wellbeing and how
does that correlate to like domestic
violence for some of the
people? Yeah, Mike, I was sort of along
the same lines thinking about the issue
of poverty and its relation to um
domestic abuse. Um, and I was just
wondering, um, again, I think it's very
tricky in terms of what we do to try to,
um, help prevent, um, the incidents of
domestic abuse, but I was wondering if,
um, the folks in the schools um, our
community resource officers or, um,
other programming in the schools happens
around
um, talking to young men and young women
um, about this. um in terms of you know
hoping
that you know their understanding not to
do it, their understanding to report it
if it is happening to not stand up not take it uh you know that kind of
thing. So I was just wondering if the
police department was involved in any
way with the school district around
those issues.
Um, I I think it's fair to say that when
we when we built out the school resource
officer program, the community
engagement officers in the schools, that
part of part of the discussions was that
they are a resource to the school
community for anything. It doesn't have
to be school violence or anything school
related. It could be something that's
related to their home life. Um, so and I
know that from speaking to the past
couple superintendents, they're all well
aware that if students come to school
and they're not talking for a day, but
they're normally talking, something may
have happened in their homes that they
need to be aware of. It's, you know,
it's the payroll with care method. And,
uh, so, so those are things that we've
had discussions with, but you know,
really just having those open lines of
communication, the best thing that we
can do with the school district.
Mr. So just to follow up on that, I know
that, you know, there's a partnership,
you know, with, you know, the police
department, with probation, other
community partners that are really are
situ within the school district that's
currently happening and it's been
happening for a while is to just kind of
make sure that those type of situations
are kind of elevated. Um, and that not
only is it, you know, the information
doesn't stay siloed cuz sometimes that
can happen when dealing with something
that is as sensitive as this. you know,
we want to be really mindful about that,
but so there is I can, you know, I sit
on that committee as well that's that's
happening. Thank you. Yeah, I would like
to follow up on that and you don't have
to ask answer specifically, but to Miss
um Miss Patrick's point, I think that um
it would be ideal if they were like they
had the like stranger danger, whatever.
Maybe they're not calling it then
anymore. But with those kind of things
that they actually talked to students
about were they were the subjects
introduced and you're not waiting for a
student to something to happen and you
try to figure out by their behavior what
exactly happened. Is there any level of
curriculum or could there be where
actually you talk to students that if
you see something in your not and it may
not be through the police department, it
may be through the school system within
a partnership where you actually have a
forum or or a class or whatever you want
to call it where you actually introduce
that so that children feel more
comfortable that if something is
happening that they can come forth as
opposed to, you know, the social worker
or the teacher trying to determine what
is causing their behavior to be
different. Sure. Um I'm not sure right
now, but I can I guess the only response
I have to that is I had a meeting today
with the school district uh
superintendent, the deputy
superintendent regarding our contact
that's up for the school resource
officers. And part of that conversation
was the mayor's desire to uh to have the
police and fire department involved more
with with the education inside the
schools. um talking on a variety of
different topics and that certainly
would be one of them um should they want us to be there to help
with that.
So maybe even though I could be involved
with that. All right. So circling back
to the finances. So since you said that
there's an increase in revenue, do we at
this point in time and maybe this
question for our um finance deputy
finance commissioner or finance chair
here. do we need to um amend our budget
since there's going to be I won't call
it a savings but since we're now um
money that we had initially had um
allocated towards the line on your
budget do we need to do a budget
amendment to that um in order to
recognize that there's this been this
change in the
budget I'll get back to you on that
all right thank you
any other questions or comments um I did
have one respond. I greatly appreciate
it. I think anytime we uh identify these
types of uh influx of doctors, I think
to the point that Mr. Farley was always
making, it increases our responsiveness
to chronic issues and concerns. And I
imagine at the end of this, although our
hope is for it to renew, um we're going
to recognize that living without this
funding is going to be a significant
negative impact on what work is going to
be able to be done right now. Um, with
respect to future budgets which seem to
be getting bigger than than lesser, is
there any uh confidence you can put in
absorbing this into your budget as is?
Yeah. I mean, I I'm I'm so confident
that this is going to keep going on. I
didn't really put much thought behind
that. But to your point, uh, many times
we look at grants and we think about
that, okay, this is a one or two-year
grant. Is this something that we can see
as being sustainable beyond the grant
period? And if our answer is no, we just
don't apply. And that has happened many
times. But I'm I'm I asked that
question. I'm I was told that expect
this one to be just like GIF and it'll
just keep going and going until domestic
violence is eradicated. Then we can get
rid of all of them. So thinking if there
are no other questions, thank you. Thank
you. Uh item number two is a follow
discussion chapter 93 and the C
regarding legucation and the police.
May I have a motion to move? Second.
All in favor.
Now item number two discussion regarding
chapter 93 code regarding regretation
items.
Thank you. So the last time we discussed
this, it was because Sarn was now
becoming dormant and and according to
the code, they do have a seat at the
table and um what I asked the council
for was to provide input um in terms of
other organizations or how we could re
uh we could change the code so that
we're not put in a position where
they're not getting um they're not
getting quum. My understanding is they
recently have the situation again uh
because there is an organization that is
on there and does have a representative
that's not showing up. I was just made
aware of that today. So what I will be
doing is um and asking Mr. uh Williams
to do is actually reach out to that
organization um and and let the mayor,
you know, include the mayor that this
person just isn't showing up and do they
have a replacement. And I don't know um
I don't ever get any, you know, we don't
get reports as we used to. they used to
come and tell us where they what they
were doing. So, and also to ask for the
CPRB um to give us some some feedback on
how they think we can um rectify this
because they're the ones doing the work
every day. I did not get any feedback
from council members, but at this time
if there's any other feedback um so
anyone um I committee I would recommend
uh the seat or safe inc. I know we're
briefly talking about having a youth
component when informally speaking with
the uh chair for the CPRB. Definitely
identifying a sincere need to have more
of a voice from our emerging community
who are also impacted um by the
responsiveness from the police
department. I think it's important to
have that uh integrated feedback uh to
ensure that their voice is included in
these ongoing conversations. I think
we'll have to probably
identify
by comparison of corporation council but
also through office of professional
standards at what age range is
appropriate. Um not talking about
toddlers or anything but I think just
making sure the individual that's
exposed to this has the right
wherewithal um because we want to make
sure there is proper consideration for
the confidentiality of some of this
information. Um and then also I just
wanted to add a snapshot this month's
meeting which will be this Wednesday
they'll be having the member from the K9
department present. Uh so if anyone is
looking to just hear more about what uh
issues or items will fall at the lake
review board. You can also have
opportunity to meet a member from this
team and the meetings are at 6:00 here
in St. Paul on the second floor.
So I forgive me madam chair for that. Um
I'm well no I'm answering your question.
That's why I was Yeah. So, I'm not
exactly off top of my head sure like
what all the um what parties were, but
and I and I apologize for not sending
this thought prior to the meeting, but I
am think I was thinking based on our
last conversation, if we look to have
some some justice involved, families or representation there on that board,
that might take us outside of like
um what is existing now.
Uh and my question for you, you were
mentioning that they used to come and
give us like reports. Now that was
happening, was it happening quarterly or
was that and and is there is that
something that we can kind of
communicate out like an expectation not
just for them to come in and give us a
oneoff but
maybe give us some before it's moving
forward? Well, I think we can certainly
make that request. Um in terms of
justice involved the uh the code speaks
specifically
um to people's and justice involved on a
certain level who can and cannot sit. So
there is some language in there already
around that. So um it doesn't exclude
everyone but it does exclude a certain
group of people. So we can take a look
at that and then if you have more
questions around that definitely um uh
the seats um I know that the city
council has a seat and then an
additional seat that we do with non
voting but everything else that we're
considering you know we have to
definitely work with the mayor's office
to to change uh anything in that
legislation um because those are those
are seats that would be um filled
through going through the mayor's
office. So, um I would ask that the um
CPRB just come next meeting, please, and
have us give some update on where they
are and where their challenges lie and
maybe their recommendations on how we
can um help move this forward along with
the recommendations that were given here
today. Absolutely.
Any other questions or comments related
to that agenda item?
[Music]
The last item on the agenda is a
reminder public hearing to add section
182-8 to chapter 182 of the SMDC code to
create a sound permit application. Um
public hearing was on March 24th, 2025.
Mr. Mine, thank you. Yes, we did a
public hearing regarding this uh
amendment and in your package you would
see that this under 182 section 182 a
section was added 182.8 eight and then
there is the permit application that we
went back and forth and we did change it
in authorizing things some of the
languages and it's just the
um the section that is added I'll just
ask
um council just update us on this
one it's it's pretty straightforward it
just needs another office to intake
these
um and you know intake the uh and
process the applications.
What you say not another office?
It's it's it's either the city police
department or another
office but in the court can clearly say
that
um coming from the police department
right but I understand the mayor speak
that regard
well you wanted an element of
convenience to have people be able to
come make the application maybe the city
clerk's office Then there's people that
generally already familiar with
it get processed and then notification
to go out to in the police department or
appropriate agencies within the city to
monitor the activity so that nobody's
creating situation that uh is offensive
or irritating to neighbors.
Thank you. Any other questions or
comments? But I'm a little um why do we
I mean this is something like should be
handled by the police department because
at the end of the day they will have to
review this application. They will have
to approve
it and they will have to monitor the
situation. So why why another
department? I'm just trying to
understand why not just an element of
convenience to get the application
coming in. It's like street closing
permits, you know, circulated throughout
the city and every department signs off
on them.
Um, so since this is going to be just
about every event, I do have a level of
concern regarding the amount of people
the influx that's going to now be would
come into whatever office it is. And the
crooks office in particular, I do see,
you know, the marriage license, golf
license, and every other license.
Um, and if the police department isn't
the place, is there someplace else in
city hall that we could maybe um get
this to happen?
Um, I just imagine that it's going to be
a lot of of of extra work. And it and if
that's not going to be the case, do we
then assign someone to the clerk's
office, get another body in the clerk's
office or even a part-time body in the
clerk's office to take on the additional
work? Because right now, it's staffed
essentially for the work that it does.
And if we're going to increase the
volume of work, I think we have to take
that in consideration.
Thank you. I I think that would hold
true for the police department as well.
You know, someone to take these
applications and um process them and
who's going to be responsible. I guess
the the uh the uh 911 call or the non 911 call of uh
6390 911. would get a call on this and
be dispatched to the officers to go. Um,
but my understanding, Mr. Mame, is first
they would get a phone call to the
individual on fire here. So, who's going
to be making that phone call again? And
does the police department have enough
um individuals when it comes in quue um
to call them right away or is it going
to be a 30 or 40 minute or 2hour delay
in calling even because of other
incidents that are already in quue that
the police department need to follow on
and follow up on. And I guess my last
question would be um I don't I didn't
know if we decided if we were going to
charge for this permit like we charge
for other permits.
I think at the last um it said no at the
last u meeting we decided a majority of
us decided that we're not going to
charge that was mine
yeah so but so I remember in our last
conversation I'm not really sure about
the best place for intake but kind of to
uh Mr. to's point. The hope here is that
by having the number and a contact
designated contact person on file, then
it will relieve some stress off the our
police department having to respond and
send their car out. So, I don't know if
that's an officer that's designated to
call, hey, listen, or or you know where
that call comes from. But either way,
whoever is making that call, it should,
and again, this is somewhat in theory,
but I imagine that it will become less
of a strain on the department to respond
via phone call and tell somebody, hey,
we got you on file here. We know you're
doing something. Hey, can you turn on
your music? And then happy to send that
initial car out. That could be one or
two officers dedicated to that. this
country. Yeah, it would seem to me and
not trying to add to the burden of our
police firm, but they probably are going
to be the people that will have to
respond to um and probably already
respond uh to these types of complaints
all the time. Um so it seems to me like
they would want to have um there at the
police department record of this permit
because you know I mean right off the
bat if somebody doesn't have the permit
um that's one whole set. I mean, I don't
know if we want to ask them to to
respond, but the chief said just send in
hand me once tomorrow.
Yeah, I get used to I think they should
end up with a record of the permit.
Absolutely. But I I would like chief to
respond. I mean, would someone be able
to make a phone call when anything comes
in? I mean, have you been, you know,
consulting about any of this or Sorry to
put you on the spot. M I guess my
question would be
for for the for the noise permit what
are we permitting?
Excess of the current code.
No absent a permit. Why wouldn't
somebody just be able to play their
music
if it's not in excess of the noise?
So I'd say my understanding of the
permit process and please correct me if
I'm wrong is to place a level of
accountability and then also to
formalize how you are being considerate
to others around you. So with that, it
puts in place a point of contact so that
if there are any issues or concerns, it
then gives the responding agency, which
would be the police department, a clear
means of here's your first step. And
then truly the hope or one of the
byproducts is that it saves you time of
having to send physical resources. To
me, a phone call is significantly more
easier to manage than sending out a
unit. Um and then also it provides those
around um that household a safe
understanding that
um one of the areas within the process
is notifying your adjacent households.
So again, I think it's just letting
people know there's no issues with
having music within the guidelines of
the city code. um but putting in place
some additional means so that uh others
are notified and that there's a proper
response
uh proper responding person to reach out
to so you're not just banging on the
door waiting for someone else to
come that p that piece I like having the contact information my
concern with issuing permits
is we're then enforcing the permits so
we're we're issuing them and then when
we show up and they're like but you gave
this and then we have to explain to
them, well, I know we gave it to you,
but you're violating it. That's why my
question is like when if somebody were
to come and file for a permit, what
exactly are what's the what's the reason
why they're filing for it that they
can't currently do right now?
Yeah. Again, I I think and guys feel me if if I'm out of turn here. I
think that the hope there is that now it
is another point of accountability for
somebody cuz we're not saying that now
we give you this permit you can blast
your music, right? That's not what we're
saying. We're saying that we recognize
that as especially as a weather change,
people are going to want to have more
outdoor activities. So, this encourages
people to, you know, be a better
neighbor to, you know, make those
notifications. Um, and then, you know,
have somebody on on contact on file. And
I think that, you
know, I'm sure like any enforcement or
anything that changes in the code,
you'll have people who are won't be
interested in in in following the rules.
But, you know, I think majority of
people will say, "Okay, this is
something I could do. This is something
that's required of me now to do this,
then I do it." And then it puts us all
in a better position. Um, I don't think
it it's going to uh be an absolute uh
cure all for some of the noise pollution
that we're experiencing, but it does
operationalize a little bit of goodwill
between the neighbors and more
accountability for individuals.
No, I agree with that. It's more on we
touch on that accountability and kind of
give the PD the information that needed
rather than wasting time sending out to
officer there where we can do better
with our officer a phone call. I think
we discussed this a couple years ago in
terms of more of getting information,
make that call, let them know that they
are in violation, you know, rather than
showing up at the property. And, you
know, it's more of it's more of driven
towards that accountability for whoever
is doing an event. And I think that's
what the whole aim is for here. And then
um regardless of amending this, it's in
the city charter regardless. So if we
were to do nothing today with this area,
it's still in the city charter that the
police department can issue special
permit for events. So this is more of us
amending it to broaden the scope of who
is responsible and to add another office
if it's not the police department or
someone else to help with that special
permit.
Thank you. So to like kind of to your
point, chief, it's it's similar to like
why do we issue street closing for block
parties? because we want to know what's
happening. We want to know what's going
on. If there's an issue, we want to know
who we contact. So, to me, it's very
similar to that. Um, further to the
point of who it should be, since we're
having a lot of discussion around
that, the information that was provided
to us by corporation council said that
the application is going to be uh
reviewed and approved by this connecting
police department that um that the chief
of police will have to review it and
we'll issue it. So, it sounds like it
starts at the police department.
um otherwise that it would have to
happen here and then we'd have to
transmit the information to the police
department or someone would have to come
here and look at it. But based on um
what's been given to us for 182-8
um it looks like the police department
would be the starting place based on
this language. Okay, Mr. Chairman,
perhaps uh we can internally look at
this administratively and find find
another office and perhaps the council
can as well think of another office for
you know for the intake of this and get
back to do dealing with this in two
weeks. If I can Mr.
Mayor the street closing permit today
comes into the mayor's office.
That number's been growing over the
years. That application then is
circulated throughout the city. So the
fire department has to sign off on it.
Finance says sign off on it. Police
department has to sign off on it so that
they're aware. And it also when the
actual closure is
issued or modification of traffic flow,
it sent to dispatch. You know, in this
system, the simpler thing is if we knew
who had the loud
noise, the complaint is going to come in
to a phone call, either 911 or the
non-emergency number to dispatch. So,
they could look it up and then just call
the party and say, "We've got a
complaint. Your sound is too loud."
But again, to the chief's
point, we're going to permit people to
do what they can do today without a
permit. And then we're assuming people
are going to violate it. And then what
are they going to do? Do we have to send
the police out? Do we send a drone out?
Do
we do the phone call to it? And as we
all know, those noise
complaints are ones that back up where
again, they're priority three calls. And
it's unfortunate where you have one
individual or one location that makes
poor choices and has very loud
noise. Most times it does not generate
one complaint, complain about that.
You'll get 10 complaints and a lot of
the complaints are not narrowed down to
say it's a specific address on a
specific street. It's there's some place
two blocks over or it's the yellow house
farther up the street. And so dispatch
has to sort that out. Is it a separate
violation or is it one location that's
doing it? And so again, hopefully in
this whole discussion and narrative,
people
will understand that their actions do
have repercussions and negative
influence on their neighbors and that
people weather gets warmer, they won't
be playing music excessively loud or
engaged in conduct that uh generates
noise in a manner that irritates the
neighbors.
And I would have to agree. I I think
show me another way we can get someone's
contact information. I'm all in favor of
doing that. I think the only issue is an
uninforcable recommendation is a
suggestion. So I think this
unfortunately is the only opportunity we
have to get that contact information. I
think similar to how we're rolling out
the new speed limits uh which we've
heard has been so wellreceived by the
community, I think it's we're
reconditioning behaviors. Uh so I think
hopefully over time people who are going
through this experience are then sharing
that information with other party
starters and they recognize that within
the city of Skenctity they are now
identifying this as a point of emphasis
to address moving forward. But sincerely
growing up in the city noise has been an
issue and we have to try something
different. Whether this is the right
different I don't know but I think it
shows the community that we hear you and
we are going to try something new.
Um there so May glad you touched on the
drone. I think when we were discussing
our investment in the drone, we did talk
about using drone for this first
responders for as a first responder to
the kind of incident like you know or
when people have events like this. So I
don't know if you want to remind if
that's still on the card is that
possible. Yeah, it is. And you as I sat
down, assistant chief kind of whispered
to me, what's the benefit of the permit?
So, it just got me, you know, it was I'm
just thinking that because I hear what
you're saying. You want to come up with
a
solution perhaps a permit that would
allow if somebody's having a party, how
do you encourage somebody to file for a
permit and give us this information?
Right. Right. Now, a big um
misunderstanding is that when the police
show up, you get one show up without a
with a with a notification. Cuz when we
show up and we issue a ticket, they're
like, "I thought you got one show up."
That's like, nope, that's never in the
code. It's not the case. Perhaps with a
permit and the sharing of that
information, that's the way you sell it.
That's the benefit is you, you know,
you're having a party, a picnic, you're
going to have music on. You sound get
your permit, give us your information.
If we get a complaint where we find that
it's too loud, now we have an easy way
to contact you and tell you you're being
too loud, shut it off. That's the
benefit. So, that that's a way it
potentially could work. Yes. And I think
that's right. That's what we're trying
to get. Now we have the information that
can help us. As long as we sell to the
public that way and tell them if you
don't get the permit and we show up,
you're getting the ticket. There's no
one one free show off. And before your
question, I know there's a component in
the city code where you're able to uh
take away the noise making device. Is
there any way we can uh evaluate? I I'm
just trying to look at what are what
what's available to us. Um, and then
also I want to put your offers in
officers situation where there's getting
doors slammed in their faces or not
answer. Yeah. I mean, we're always real
careful before we do that. But you
usually the threshold that I use
personally and I've recommended is is
that if you feel that sound coming
through your body, we're probably going
to take the equipment. If if we've told
you once and you and you you haven't
listened to us now, we're going to take
it and till the judge says to return,
Miss Ver, I just want to So, it does
sound like you think that this is a
valid useful thing for us to be.
As long as there's a benefit to the
person applying because otherwise I'd
hate to be put in a position to them to
say, well, why did I even apply for this
if I'm if you're showing up anyways and
I'm getting a ticket?
Oh, well, they'd have to know the
parameters around the noise level, which
I believe was a certain decel, but even
then, I mean, it's like, how are they
going to know it? How are they going to
measure themselves? But what I would
throw out, and I hope I'm wrong, is
people who are going to be the worst
violators are not going to get no matter
what the council changes the legislation
to.
I would say optimistically we have to
present another narrative because I feel
like that that shows the people of the
community that there's nothing we can do
to address this and I would have to
disagree. Mr. W did you raise no I was going to say that if
we have our minds kind
of aimed towards like the worst
offenders here. I mean, I think honestly
if we just had to deal with the people
that were the worst offenders as far as
it goes, then that would that alone
would cut a lot of, you know, uh, track
traffic off of resources for the police
that they wouldn't have to deal with. I
think that this is something that
there's a lot of variables that are
involved. So, you might have people who
they have their music up a little louder
in the daytime as a neighbor happens all
the time. Daytime I don't mind. You know
what I mean? and it gets a little bit
little darker outside then maybe I'll
tell my neighbor hey you know but so I
think that knowing that there is a
continuum if you will of people who are
going to be enjoying music outdoors then
a lot of the people
who those people same people say hey if
there's a problem turn it down those
people want to come have a permit they
don't want to be in compliance they
don't want to you
know snub their nose at their neighbors
a lot of time I think a lot of people
it's something that is
uh you know it it it's a matter of
perspective and some cuz my loud might
not be their loud and vice versa. So I
think that this is a way that we can
kind of again operationalize you know
establishing some goodwill within the
neighborhood and and and let people know
and I think that's a really good idea
chief that if you did get the permit
then you know that's why you're giving
us courtesy call. Hey we know it's you
think for giving us information we need
you to turn it down a little bit or you
didn't now we're going to enforce what's
already under the code. So I think that that that shows some benefit there.
Um this So this is a quality of life
issue that we've been talking about for years and um I just think that we
just have to let people know because
there are people that that it's already
something that really people should be
adhering to. So I've already heard
feedback, oh it's you're you're
targeting certain groups or certain
individuals. And I think it's just a
matter of just making sure that we
educate people that like this applies to
everyone regardless of where you live or
what your neighborhood is. It applies to
everyone. Um, and I don't I don't think
it's a bad idea cuz sometimes the music
does get really loud even in cars. We
didn't talk about that. I get it. I was
going to say goes the end with the cars
that are speeding down our street as
well. But I think being able to identify
people I've been at parties where the
police have come. It wasn't my party.
was
mine. Um, and so but if there that
person knew ahead of time that they
already had to get a permit etc and so
on and you know because the neighbors
called there's something so I think that
we at least minimally should um try to
uh put something in place that at least
puts everyone on notice and let them
makes them aware.
Um definitely the chief's recommendation
of putting in writing in a benefit. I
think that is absolutely something we
should consider. I don't know what steps
we need to do to I'm sorry. Could you
just repeat a warning built in
completing the permit? Um I don't know
what we need to do if we do anything at
this point. I don't I I think that's a
policy. Okay. Perfect. All right. Uh so
with this we need to um it's just a
reminder. Okay.
Uh there are no other items to put on
wait.
Are we moving this forward or are we
holding it for two weeks to kind of
determine which office that is going to
take responsibility for this format?
That was my take. So let's um hold hold
this for two weeks, bring it back and
let's come up with a solution in terms
of what recommendation in terms of where
they can pull this.
So we'll have it back in two weeks so
they can move forward. Well, so that we
can move something forward. Just put it
in the mayor's office will take it and
we'll handle it just in the same way we
do
street. So do we need So can I just be
clear? So the forms would come it would
come directly from your office and then
you would handle the moving it around to
the different departments. So what we do
now similar to what forms
is there form in the legislation that
has to be designed.
No form's already here.
Well, I'd have to look at that to see if
it conforms with other ones that we're
working on which incorporate their
applicability to an EZRI platform for a
mapping system. So, but the form itself
doesn't need legislation. It's just part
of the mayor's office.
Okay.
So, so with that said that we can move
this as amended. As amended, the mayor
may have a motion. So, move second. Uh
second. All in favor?
I call public safety. I have a motion to
still move. Second. Second. All in
favor?
So, I'd like to open health and
recreation. Um, and tonight we have
before us um I do, you know, we had a
health and recreation meeting last uh
well, we tried to have a health and
recreation meeting last week and
unfortunately
um I was the only person there. I will
thank Mr. from the committee. Um I'll
thank Mr. Müer for showing up after uh
his uh community center opened which was
very very generous of him. Um what we
learned um through our discussion
because we couldn't officially have a
meeting um was that indeed um for the
this body um we would be uh voting on a
pool policy. The pool rules um are
something that our staff um would be
contributing to us. We they're included
in our packet here so that we can see
them. Um we we've certainly talked about
them many many times now at this point.
Um, so what I'd like to do is ask um we have um our pools our parks director
uh Maka and um our uh commissioner
general services here. This would fall
under their uh department. So, um I
don't know if you want to come up and
talk about this at all.
Good evening, Mayor President Council
members. Real background before we go
into pool policy. We sat down and we
spoke to our pool operators, the Boys
and Girls Club. So, I asked them certain
questions. One of the things I asked
them is how many times during the summer
season do we reach capacity? 95% of the
summer season we reach capacity which is
400 people in the pool. I also asked her
when we reach capacity what's the best
estimate that you have of non-resident
using our pool. During the weekday she
stated that 25 to 30% of the pool was
occupied by non-residents. On the
weekends that rises up to 50%. Holidays
and hot days it stays about 50%. So on a
given day on a weekend you can count on
200 non-residents being in your pool and
only 200 connected residents. That's one
of the reasons the policy was designed
for where it is, the way it was set up,
that it has to be skewed residents only,
allowing a 21-year-old to bring in three
up to three guests under the age of 10,
allowing the sket residents more
capacity in the pool. Absolutely.
[Music]
Any questions?
So, the Boys and Girls Club, um, right
now, do they ask if we're residents? I
I've been through before. They loosely
take uh zip codes and they told she told
us that they do have some she sees a lot
of these unit zip codes coming in. A lot
of them are indistinguishable because
they come to one 306 which is a large
zip code area 309 and overrun but her
best estimates are with that 25 to 30%
non-resident during the week and 50% on
hot days and weekends and holidays.
I I want to thank you for putting this
together, realizing that you can make
the policy and uh you did a heck of a
job putting that together. I especially
like the 21 years and older um to have
three individuals 10 and under. Um so I
thank you for the work you put into
this. I'll try to make it more equitable
for our sketity residents. You know,
given the fact our sketity residents
deserve to have shots on you. Everybody
says, "Well, I got relatives that are
going to come." That's that's just fine.
But what about the hundreds connected
residents who are going to stand outside
the gate on an 80 degree day? I can't
get in the pool.
So just speaking to things I brought
that I did bring up already because um I
think that um to be a resident connected
if you have guests in town over a
holiday weekend or whatever to not be
able to come to them to come to the pool
when we talked about how much revenue is
being driven from our prior report by
our visitors and tourism. I think for me anyway I think that we should
really revisit that in terms of having
allowing minimally at least one guest um
if you're a resident that brings a guest
to the pool because right now you can't
have you can't right based on this based
on I tell you it's under 10 years old we
can raise we can raise at 21 years old
and above you're allowed one guest which
will make it equitable when you allow
someone over 21 to bring three guests in
you're going to get a hearts connected
residence and 300 guests in the pool
they're going to outweigh us if it's a
1:1 ratio. I think that would work
because I don't really see that we're
going to have that. Most of the time if
you're going to bring you're going to
bring in young children. Most adults
won't bring other adults to the
pool. You know, you're going to see
Uncle Carl's going to bring Uncle Carl
might bring three young kids with him,
you know, and Danny might say, "Well,
I'm going to bring Joe in, but you're
not going to see he's not going to bring
three older
relatives." Mom might bring some.
Um, so that was one thing. And so you
said that um that the Boys and Girls
Club Girls and Girls Club the data they
were um capturing was kind of like
generalized. They did not specifically
ask for an ID to prove that you lived in
the city. They just took the zip code
and said and so I could walk in even if
I did live in Connecticut and say, "Oh,
I live in 1205." But now we're going to
ask you for your ID. You're going to
have to identify yourself. My point is
that data could or could not be could be
skewed because we didn't have any real
um identification of who was coming in
there. Um and I also think that because
the pool was a novelty when it first
opened, it's I mean people were just
coming from everywhere. It's true. There
was even a video where almost everybody
in the video that they did to advertise
the pool did not live in the city. I
thought that was interesting. So So I
think that first first of all initially
was a novelty. However, um I think that
now that it's open, I'm not sure if
we'll see that level of influx. So, I
that's why I'm asking that there be a
little bit more flexibility in terms of,
you know, adults bringing um another
adult. Yeah, I I think that's a
one-on-one ratio for an adult like that
and still one 21 and below so the
younger kids can get in, you know, and
other kids always need adults with them
there. I think that's that's acceptable.
Um
yeah, I did. So, and the poll rules is what you're doing, right? So, I just
um there was the one where it says it
says children up to 5 years old must
have an adult with them. So, do they
mean does this really mean children five
and under? Oh, have an adult in the pool
with them? In the pool with them. So,
anyone under that age can't be inside
the pool without somebody with Okay.
It's in the pool or on the pool deck.
Okay. Good. But the way it reads, it's
it just to me it should read that
children five and under must have an
adult. Do you see what I'm talking
about? In the water. In the water. In
the pool itself. Yes.
Just have an adult. I mean, it's just
Yes.
And then if you're on the pool five
to 10, they have to have an adult on the
pool deck. Yes. Got it. All right. that was the only um I thought that
language wasn't very extremely clear.
The the other piece that we did talk
about was um whether to charge to
actually get into the pool. Um we had
decided we in previous discussions of
the health and recreation committee, we
had talked about not charging residents
uh to get into the pool. Um again, we
couldn't make a decision last week. Um
so you know I do want to bring that that
forward.
Um if we are going to charge it adds a
whole other layer of you know staffing
equipment that we would need um etc. So
um I'm just open to hearing from folks
about what they what they feel about
that.
Are you are you talking like um charging
non-residents or Well, we we were
talking about, you know, residents
getting in for free. Um this pool policy
says that it's only um it's strictly
limited to current residents of the
city. They can bring a certain number of
non-resident guests. So therefore, it
would be free. Um, so in our in our
conversation, not obviously not this
prior week, but the prior conversation,
I thought that there
was I everyone well everyone I spoke to,
I should say, agreeing with not charging
city residents. Um, so and
I'm I still feel really strongly about
that about not charging our city
residents to use the city pool. Um I
think that you know obviously if we're
not allowing non- city residents use of
the pool then that just takes care of
that. But if there is you know some
flexibility around that then charging on
non city residents I think it would be
an appropriate thing to do it just to
your point it would look at like you
know how do we collect that um that fee
and does the collection of the fee or
does the existing fee um justify the
action within itself? Right. Well, we've
looked at Would you like to handle? We
looked at all different options. We
talked about a kiosk, getting put a
kiosk in. If you're a non-resident, you
have you have to go to the kiosk, buy a
pass to get in, get banded to come in
the pool. The startup costs are
tremendous. By the time we buy the
kiosk, we do the the cost for processing
and everything else, maintenance costs,
everything else to get the kiosk. So,
it's kind of kind of if we don't we're
not sure how much revenue we're actually
going to generate, how many non
residents we're going to get. And then
we talked about having somebody there to
collect the money. We we could have
somebody there collect the money and
then we have to bring a supervisor in
overtime. So we close out at the night.
The numbers match the the bank book is
put together. That has to be done every
night of the pool. So we're going to pay
somebody time and a half 4 hours a night
to come and collect that money. And
Sunday double time 4 hours to close
because the pool is open way after hours
are the building's closed. Everybody's
done. Oh. So
because well if we're
basing the pool rules based off the
feedback that we got from the boys and
girls but those are the numbers that are
we're building our rationale around
then if if that holds to be true um then
it seems like there might be a a large a
large enough uh margin um in order to
justify doing it. But to President
Portfield's point if it's based on
number one that the data that we have
collected hasn't been um as uh accurate
as we'd like it to be or as specific as
we'd like it to be and or it being kind
of the novelty the new thing that's
happening. Um so maybe and I I would
just suggest this anyway is that we
allow ourselves
to know that we you know we could be a
little more responsive to the needs of
the community once we get information.
So like if like if this information if
we're saying hey we find out that there
is a huge amount of people coming in
then we're like we need to do something
about this. If not then we don't. Um so
I I would just caution us to not be
overly committed to what um whatever
thing we come up with now. Um yes I'd
like to say that um one of the things
that we've talked about is that we will
re-evaluate this uh following the
season. I think um we definitely talked
about the fact that um you know we want
to have some good data to make
decisions. Um so we will have to look at
this you know after I think this is
going to be an interesting season. We
had met with Boys and Girls Club today
and we talked about maybe establishing a
different way why they can collect a
little more different data so it's a
little more accurate what we're getting
in you know and if we met in a policy to
let one adult one-on-one adults in we'll
have some more data we can come back
next year and say okay this is what we
determined that we got this is what we can anticipate and revenue coming
back to us
Mr. Williams. Uh, I'd say definitely I'm
on board with having a yearly or annual
review of these types of policies. I am
not in agreement with charging our city
residents in any regard to this. And I
think there's also consideration to
either increase that additional guest
age. Um, what we don't want to happen is
splitting up friend loops. um because I
think we want to drive our youth or
engagement to these types of uh approved
activities because I don't know if
anyone's noticed the bikes are out again
and I think we are going to be presented
with a different issue of how do we
guide our youth to these approved
activities. Um, but for the only reason
of we put a little under 20% of our ARVA
eligible ARA funding to this project, I
think that buys a few years of good
grease to the residents of our city with
respect to any potential charges. Um,
but sincerely, we heard about all the
positive impacts from Central Park. I
would not want to put in place any
barriers if just referencing my
upbringing, we did not have a lot. And
like I stated before, this economic
climate, regardless of who's at the
presidency, is requiring a lot of people
to start evaluating how you're spending
dollars. And that's regardless of how
old you are.
Okay.
So, um other questions, but um I guess
did you want to try to um vote on this
tonight or um wait let people um well I
mean it was sent out ahead of time u for
folks to review. But um and you have a
question. I'm sorry. It's okay. I just
want to be clear. We're only building on
the pool policy. The pool rules is very
separate and need to be done. Yes. by a
park throughout. That's absolutely
right. That was um our corporation
council um did I'm sorry. What's that?
the that the city council would be
responsible for the pool policy, but the
pool rules um are something that the
staff would decide with our giving us a
chance to take a look at. Right. The
city code is is very clear that the
superintendent of parks does the pool
rules.
You can do a resolution endorsing those
the rules as issued by the park
commissioner. You can do a resolution
that would review it and endorse it to
that. But the the authority to issue
rules regarding the pool is the parks
commissioner's authority and but how and
if you were to charge a fee then that's
comes within the council's perview
because then that's that's financing.
But as far as the issuing rules, the
chart I mean the code says he's reissues
the rules, but you can certainly do a
resolution endorsing those rules if you
wish. Okay, Mr. Mer. Yeah. Under on proof of residency
summary residents, anyone over 10 years
older must provide a skinnity city
school district for
joining. We need we need a class. anyone
over 10 years is are we talking about
um and you're asking for school ID so
there should be a cut off in age up to
18
will you cut it off at 18 kind of open
end here it's right cut off at 18 for
school IDs and after 18 you have to
produce a driver's license so you would
have to change you might want to change
this anyone over must provide you have
to um or between the ages Basically
between the age of yeah between the ages
of 10 and 18 years old you must provide
school ID over 18 we could kick you back
to the current regular regular social
ID. Okay. Yes. Is that school age
individual school age?
So, anyone anyone between the
ages of 10 to 18 must provide a sketchy
city school district photo
ID school age?
Well, the question is what about
students who like go to charter schools
or some of the private schools or things
like that? So, that's so I
cuz they they're not issued school
district. did not that was not brought
up when we had the other meetings. Yeah.
Any school age because of LA won't have
a city school district.
So do they does for example do they have
a school ID? No.
Okay. So we'll have to we are going to
have to go back to the drawing board a
little bit on that one then I guess. Not
too much. We need to broaden this
one to
bullet. Yeah.
And again, I think I mean, we we had
talked about them coming here to get an
ID um was something else that had
brought you brought up at I guess two
meetings ago of health and recreation.
Mr. No worries. So, I was thinking like
and also like having the Boys and Girls
Club as partners in this is a really
positive thing and I think that they
know a lot of our our students and our
kids that are in the community that
don't necessarily attend Sket City
School District. So, I think
maybe if we wanted to like move
something out tonight, not saying that
we need to do that, but if we're looking
to do that, then maybe um adding some
language that would give some difference
to them. Um would be I I I think I'd be
I think that would be okay. I think that could
allow make it a little more broad. Um
but if it's something that, you know, we
want to just bring back and just
as we brainstorm to come up with another
form of ID that'd be okay too. I just
once we put it in the policy then it is
the policy. So it's almost one of those
things that we want to have more more
discretion of our partners
on board. Um first I appreciate all the
work and effort that you've put into
this. Um I do think that we need to like
try to hammer down or when I say we I
mean I definitely mean the health and
recreation committee and I appreciate
you calling the meetings. Um my
suggestion is that there with all the
input that you've received today that we
just have that one final meeting and ask
that all I'm going to look at the
ceiling that all committee members um be
able to attend and also the boys and
girls along with our uh the um our parks
director so that we can hammer it down
the time is it's April. Yes. And uh so
we're getting close and we really need
to get this moved out and so that people
understand and know and get can get
prepared and get their ID and everything
that they need in order to um go by the
policy rules. So I don't I mean it's up
to you if you want to try to to
we'll have another health and recreation
committee meeting. Um we we'll have to I
mean I guess to unless you feel
differently do we need to I mean could
we just come up with something tonight?
I mean we've heard a lot of different
that was the suggestion of the
corporation. Absolutely. I mean, I do
want to point out also that all the
staff showed up as well to the meeting
last week. So, well, I said you I had
something else going on, but anyway, it
doesn't matter. What I'm saying is all
school age children need some sort of
ID. If schools don't have that um to
give to a child, whether they're
homeschooled, um charter school, charter
school, Catholic schools, it doesn't
matter. But if they don't have a student
ID um then perhaps a note from a parent
um a note from the school that the child
can carry with them um without a photo
attached. I mean it's it's kind of
simple. There's no matter if we have a
special meeting or not, we're not going
to be able to figure that out for
children who don't have it. So at so not
this last meeting but the previous
meeting um is where I brought raised the
issue around like what about our
students that go to charter schools and
my thought then and my thought still is
that's something that if we give a level
of difference to our again the whole
point of having the boys and girls club
doing this is cuz they have a unique
yeah they have a unique understanding of
the community and they have systems in
places. So, and a lot of the students
that that don't go to maybe they don't
go to Skynet City School District, but
they're a member of the Boys and Girls
Club, right? Then they have a
application that has a lot of
information there. So, I think that the
way to handle that would be move with
what we have, but just maybe make a
amendment to give that um and
corporation council could help us up
with the language on that that gives a
level of difference to our community
partner. Yeah, Mr. Toro. Um, and I don't
know how we could reference it in there,
but the sheriff's department also gives
IDs. Um, right, fingerprints and IDs.
Somehow we can reference that in there.
Um, for school age children who don't
attend a city school,
Miss Porterfield, Miss Porterfield,
sorry, that I think that's a really good
suggestion. And again, I think it's I
still think we need to like bring it all
in and have it like concise. Um and I
also skinnity county the job um training
agency does IDs they you know for for
summer youth program. So can we since we
have these partners who already do these
things make sure that we get our
partners on board to make and like if
you have a child that doesn't go to a
school where they give an ID you could
take your child to this place or that
place. So I think that we need to like
um like determine that get our partners
on board with it as we move forward with
that. That's that's my suggestion. Well,
the Boys and Girls Club would be the
best. Um, because you know, uh, Bill's
been working really closely with Julie
who oversees this program for us. Uh, in
the summer, we could actually reach out
maybe to the charter schools and inform
what agencies where they could get an ID
before we get going on the season. If
you would like to use our pool, we must
contact this agency to get an ID to come
to the pool this summer. Yeah. And we
charge the dasis. I I think we're
overthinking that. I think we have I we
just have language in there that says
these are these are all acceptable forms
of ID but not limited to and then give
the Boys and Girls Club the difference
to say okay Jimmy you go to this charter
school. I know that cuz you're a club
member come on in you. If we give them
that difference then we don't have to
try to figure out all the intricate
pieces that we're not going to be able
to figure out anyway. I think we leaving
it with enough
uh enough space for boys and boys and
girls to do what they're experts at
doing. Then we move it out and we're
good. Okay.
Mr. I was going to recommend that um if
they don't have an ID, why don't we put
the language in there in terms of like a
male with that child name? We can
substitute that also. So a proof of
residency. So here is a male. Well, how
do we know that you're male? Yeah.
We only had that one. So we wanted to
say we can bring a utility
bill in. I mean like some medical no you
know insurance card some sort of things
like that can be substituted
insurance card or or just to you know
just as I stated earlier the
superintendent has the authority already
and just blank language as such other ID
that the superintendent parts deems
suitable
and then we just write that into this
policy.
Okay. So, we'll get something from you
if that's okay. You and I can we'll sit
down. That way the superintendent of
course can work with the corporation
council's office as to that would be
great cuz that was I mean you know the
language as you see here I did um run it
through the corporation council's office
um for tonight too. So um that would be
great and we can talk as well. But
so are we bringing back this back in two
weeks? Is that what you're saying? Um, I
think that sounds like we're going to
have to bring it back in two weeks. Um,
that still gives us time. Remember, we
did start in the fall, uh, knowing that
we wanted to make sure that this was
going to be in place before the pool
opens.
So, Mr. Mayor, why why why hold it for
two weeks? I think you have the language
already that you wanted to put in this
area. So, just amend it as is with the
language and move it forward. Amend it.
Well, we'll amend that one bullet in
terms of between the ages of 10 and 18.
Um, and then we will have to future
amend it though when we um
in terms of the other acceptable forms
of
ID put that into the rules instead of the policy. The ideal
ID is a New York State driver's license.
Really kids as early as 16 can start to
get a driver's license. you know, it's
by 18 a higher percentage have it. So,
it's
the folk group that I think Yeah, I
think our focus is more on the younger
ones and how they get it. So, and so
some are going to have school IDs or
they're going to be with an adult.
They're that young. They're not just
coming over to the pool by themselves.
So, we're not going to let them in.
That's true. So, that's true. I
recommend you just I'm not a committee
but I just my recommendation to move
forward what it to discuss and move
forward for two weeks you get to work
hard on this back and forth for several
meetings why another meeting when it's
only a small amount of um language that
needs to be added okay so with the I was
going to ask for a motion so
Mur second no I just have a question so
we're going to see the language
completed before um before we actually
Yes. Okay, that's my question. And and
just to the other point, some uh I heard
it said that, you know, there it's going
to not be younger kids. According to
this pool policy, there are anybody
that's 10 or over can come with 90. So,
it is going to be some 10 year olds or
12 year olds or whatever who are coming
and they need to come with something and
not most of those we're assuming
connected to school district kids that
we already know is in their system.
To Mr. Froley's point, the charter
schools didn't think about that. We have
other school kids that are not in the
school system here that might show up at
the pool. Yeah. How about for uh
Catholic schools? Do they same thing? Um
just Catholic schools. All right. So,
Miss Duro moved it. Can I get a second?
Sure. And we're seconding it with the
language to say that the age requirement
we're going to craft the age requirement
and then it's going to also include the
fact that these are accepted uh forms of
ID but not limited to or and
or the oneonone with adult is allowed on
adult guest. Okay. Yes. So that would
have to be part of the acceptable forms
of ID will put into rules. Okay. Okay.
So all in favor I miss Petro. Okay. All right. So
there's nothing further to come. Thank
you very much. There's nothing further
to come before health and recreation. Um
motion to second. Okay. All in favor? I thank you very much. That was nice.
Okay. Call to order finance. The first
item is update purchasing policy.
[Music]
Hi. Cool. Good
evening. So, a little background. The uh
purchasing policy expired um December
31st of 2024. Uh we're looking to update
the purchasing policy for a 2-year deal.
um the evaluation analysis of the
updated sections. There's three sections
that have updated the determination of
need for competitive bidding purchasing
requirements procedures for the overall
purchases. Um so I recommend the city
council approved the 20 25 to 26
purchasing policy there questions. Is
there a copy of that?
Yeah. It should be in it in your box a
separate separate document.
purchases
yesterday. You
have
one box, right? I have
one
box in the content.
They should be they should be printed
this month. I'm just going to go grab
it. Would you
say anything?
There's nothing that has been uh taken
out. So everything highlighted in
yellow. Okay.
No, it's not.
You're searching every single page.
This is
[Music]
not the
They're
not they're not there's like a lot of
kids
living and they all cherish schools in
Albany.
Sure. Yes.
Troy Gabby's boyfriend's kids go there.
All right. Again, I think
That's how much you probably
Joe, is that your handwriting? Yeah,
that's my
notes. This is a code. No one else
can. Only I can decipher this.
What? Sorry.
Oh, magnetic stuff. My wrist
stuff. Heat. Heat.
[Music]
It's
just glam.
Don't you see this right now?
We just got
these today.
Thank you. Does everyone have a copy
now? I
don't have mirror, huh? Yes, I do. I
have coverage here. Okay.
So, this this document came this this evening um to the council. So, we
didn't get a chance to to review these
documents,
early afternoon. Um the majority of the
policy is the same as previous years.
There's just three sections within the
document that updated. Um one is the
back language that allows the
municipalities
um to leverage the existing contracts
that the city has. Um and I just want to
say too we had Ron Gardner um our
corporation council assistant
corporation council and Sarah used the
supervisor these documents and uh
everyone approved the updated changes.
So is that the changes you just
highlighted there or can you walk us
through the changes?
So yep on page three is the piggyback
language. Uh currently the city is able
to piggy back on other municipalities.
It just gives opportunity other
municipalities to piggy back on our
contracts. Um so if we have a contract
out there say for example this vehicle
the specs if it meets their specs and
their guidelines they can go up our
contract without pushing something new
out.
Sometimes the county
pays
for
whatever. So it's just applicable to the
city or if you're doing other similar
work that makes sense. Uh the next
section on page six is regards
MWD. Again, Ron Gardner from the ration
officer review this and it's okay with
the updates.
Yeah. Go ahead, please. Yeah. And Mr.
Chairman, this language that you see
highlighted in that portion is taken
from county uh purchasing policy which
references the federal regulations and
the regular and as well as the contract
system and the uh the listings in which
the uh purchases uh and approved uh
vendors come from. So this is mirroring
their language um regarding what they
use and I think it's sufficient to
comply with state federal
regulations. Go ahead. Uh correct me if
I'm wrong. I believe Mr. Gardner was
last year you talked about including
like an index or a column that
essentially gave a grade to bids. Is
that applicable to this or am I
misunderstanding what this is? I'm
sorry. you gave a grade. Uh so when he
previously was here, he talked about if
we were able to identify a score with
respect to uh
bears meeting the NWB requirements or
expectations. That's just an additional
way to just capture that comparatively
to all other
bits. This is these are the approved
vendors from the state. So I know that
Mr. garden did look at this piece and he
was okay with this language.
So just glad you brought it up because
um Mr. Gardner had also mentioned um
popping it up from $300,000 to $500,000
when you did the presentation to us a
few weeks ago. So I'm still seeing here
on page five section three is 300,000.
He asked for us to consider raising up
to
$500,000. And then under section four, I
came back in couple years ago, we had
changed the word goals requirement. So
I'm not sure why again he reviewed the
document
um but two weeks, three weeks ago now um
and was okay with all the language um so
he didn't mention any of that tonight.
Yeah, cuz we had changed it back and not
using the the word go because it's kind
of like soft language requirement more
and we had adopted that a couple years
ago. So I would like to see that those
I'm not aware of that. Yes, this
policies Mr.
Chairman goals are current.
unhighlight is what's in the current
policy. Correct. Correct. And the
current policy speaks to those.
Yes.
Well, I think there were some there were
some other documents that highlight that
when we were approving this a few years
ago.
Isn't it in number three?
Oh, that's where he wanted to make it.
Yeah, that's where he asked that we
should consider upping it to 500,000.
and I would like to see that we consider
since we have this document here section
4 we replace the word
requirement Mr. Yeah. Um,
so I'm not sure. Um, I know that we just
received this today. Is this something
that maybe we can bring back and give us
opportunities? Yeah, thank you. That was
one of the reason why I asked that we
only got this document uh, you
know, midafter afternoon, late
afternoon, doesn't matter. We should
have got it over the weekend and we
could have review it and come up with
our recommendation. So I don't have a
problem because two weeks and come back
with it and come up with all this
petition because right now we're just
we're running here trying to piece it
together
here and I just want us to incorporate
what Mr. Gardner told us few weeks ago
what is recommendation that you want to
see in the policy. So I think that needs
to be considered we could ask the
Again I want to say that Ron Gardner was
involved in this process. We had a
meeting with him. He was okay with all
the language within this document.
Mr. He's okay with with the 300,000, but
then he asked us a few weeks ago for
500,000. So, I'm kind of like where he
stands. He's presenting a document to us
asking us for 500,000. I hear we have
300,000. We could provide emails saying
he's perfectly okay with this language.
Well, I
could I was just saying just
so please.
So, I was going to say just that we
would I would like to see in writing
that I don't believe you, but um that
you know where Mr. Garin was with this
and also have him present because I'm not clear on why he said 500,000 a
few a couple weeks ago and now um it's
the beginning of this. If something's
changed, that's fine. However, I just
would like a little bit more clarity and
um I also have to agree that I would
like a little bit more time than I
didn't have time today to really go
through it. I do appreciate you coming
and with
us just waiting to see where you are
with this. Any other question regarding
this? I'm recommending that we hold this
for 2 weeks. I I I can't in the f do
this because I I have some changes that
I would like to review this and to make
recommendation and to also look at um
Mr. Gard document that he presented to
us and if he is okay with 300,000 we
just need to to get that
information.
So I'm in agreement. I remember the
extended conversation we had about
including that additional column that I
was looking forward to. So to hear that wasn't included for whatever
reason. I would appreciate hearing that
from Mr. Gardner and no slight to you.
Um but I was sincerely just it was a few
minutes him back and forth with Mr.
poorly and I'm happy to agree with
wanting to see that or him applying just
a gradient to understand how intentional
companies were being at adhering to
these expectations.
I agree. All right. So, we'll have us
back in two
weeks. The next item we'll just have you
there is a 2025 budget reappropriation.
Okay. Um the city council uh just a
little accessory city council authorized
resolution uh
2023195 and lease agreement purchase the
bleach into October
2023. Um we have not received the trucks
as of yet but we anticipate uh an aerial
by the end of 2025 and the pumpers two
pumpers by early 2026.
uh we did not appropriate the funds for
2025. Uh so it's not within the budget
adopted budget. So we have to
appropriate approximately
$621,700 to pay for two payments. One in
April, end of April and the other in
October of 2025. As you can see in the
evaluation analysis in your legislative
request, you can see uh the budget
reappropriation. Um it is re recommended
the city council approve this
reappropriation.
This is all the payments for correct.
There's I believe I also sent the lease
agreement to the city council with the
payment schedule. Yes. So there are 10
payments 11 payments. Uh so 10 payments
of 310 850 and 7 cents and then there's
one balloon pay balloon payment of 1
million. um 100,000 approximately. So
with that said, this going to cause an
increase to our 2025 budget by
621,7 questions, please. So you said
that we um I see because I looked at the
uh the lease agreement
um and on on exhibit C there is a number
four that said they would require will
be acquired with due diligence and be
fully acquired on it before and then it
says November and nothing more. So we
don't know what would follow that. Um so
you said we should have one by the end
of this year and then by next year.
Correct. Do we have any specific dates?
Two by next year. Two by next year. Um
because I don't see I I've tried to read
uh I read through this extensively and I
don't see anywhere where it gives us an
option and out that says if they don't
deliver by a certain time that we still
get to go these terms and I know the
reason that that we went with this was
so that we would save money. Yes. So we
went through an escro discount
agreement. Um so we're approximately
saving $10,000 per payment. Um uh that's
based on the interest acred. Um so this
process we've been doing it about
approximately 20 years now. Um so it's
nothing new for the council. Um but is
the delay usually that's new? Um it
depends. It depends with the product the
uh parts. Um that's a question mark. So
it's usually uh a year and a half to two
years uh we obtain these vehicles. But
do we generally start our lease payment
before the two vehicles are received?
Yes. I I looked at the last time we did
this lease agreement lease agreement and
we did. Um good news is that um we keep
and hold on to these trucks until we
receive the new trucks. Uh so I believe
we're done paying the current lease for
the past trucks. So there's no payment
uh no harm financially to the city until
we receive the new trucks.
Any other questions? I'll move it.
Second. All in favor? I the next item is agreement between
city of connectity and IU all the local
158 operating engineers.
[Applause]
So, the city and the local 150 operating
engineers uh recently just um negotiated
and came to an agreement that we're
hoping that the city council
authorizes. Um I believe I attached the
MOA for the council's review. Uh just a
side
note, the final cost
um for the retro to 2027 is
approximately
$168,000 that'll be increase in our
budget. That's over the 3year period.
Oh, so a total of sorry total of
$45,817 will increase our budget for
2025 this year. So from our adopted
budget and to this increase would be
45,3720
increase
questions seeing may I have a motion to
move this item forward. Move second. All
in favor? I I The next item is the
increase of the sky municipal golf
course force rates.
Um so this actually went through
committee um last cycle uh but there was
just a clerical error and uh it did not
make it onto the agenda of
the council. So, we're just uh
recommending that the committee
uh pass it through again. Does this
mention clerical error? Clerical error
cuz yeah, it was supposed to be in the packet last night. Oh, that's
what we already did. Yeah. Let me just
go ahead, please. So, um what happened
was that it did it did make it to the
council agenda. However, what was sent
to us to to the clerk's office was the
same exact document. So, although we
voted it through, what we had was the
same exact document that was sent to us
and was attached. So, um even though we
voted it through with the name, it was
not the correct document in the packet.
So, that's why we have to make sure we
go through this process and get it um
make sure we get it and when we get it
back to the floor that it's the correct
document in our packet.
Any other questions? Move it. All in
favor? I thank you. The next item is
review certain provisions of chapter 161
of the United Code entitled garbage,
rubbish, and refugees. Miss
your name. Your name. Well, actually, so
really um really just kind of need a
level of update um in terms of where we
are with it. Uh I don't I'm sure that
everyone's getting questions about where
we are with the uh roll out the
stickers, uh what we're going to, you
know, how we're going to process this
and just overall and um also there was
there have been some suggestions and
maybe we revisit this at this point uh
in terms of other ways that we could
handle this. But anyway, where we are
right now in in terms of the um the
sticker system, the stickers um in the
mailer should be out I hope by the end
of the week, if not early next week.
Okay.
Um final version of the actual mailing
pardon. I'm working on the final version
of the actual mailing and the stickers
are available. They've been available in
the uh bureau receipts. So they are
there locked in the vault. They have
sold some stickers. People have come in
and purchased some stickers. So they are
there and they are available.
So how did people end up knowing that um
they could come to the bureau? Phone
call. Um it's on the
website and then the fly the flyer will
go out. We're still in a soft start. So
Okay. Um, so what I've been noticing and
um got a call out on Facebook for it is
that we're we're seeing people throwing
mattresses over fences now and and you
know
uh so
um I'm I'm seeing more things alongside
the road and you know is there any way
if we're going to be able to address
that? Let's say there's a mattress
that's leaning up against a a pole.
We're just going to grab it and throw it
in the truck. Yeah. I mean, if there's a
mattress that somebody just discarded
like they did in the alleyways, the
typical dump sites that we've been
picking up for the last years and years
jumping in Avenue W Street, there's just
certain places we just pick up
constantly. Um, we take a phone call and
we go pick it up. I mean, that's what we
can do. Obviously, we don't know who
dumped it. If there's a camera there,
um, we'll look at the camera. We'll go
to the police department. uh if we have
you know call a plate number um but
absent you know um a video we go video
um no different that we have been doing
for the last been around for a lot of
years for years um it's unfortunate that
people will still do that
but people are still going to speed to
it that says 25 people are still going
to do what they want to do so if people
identify or see something like a metric
over fence just reach out to the city to
identify where between PB, the county,
and Brian Canon, we typically can look
for video and, you know, we turn it over
to the police department. They'll do an
instant report on it and see if they can
track down who discarded the um the
waste. But if there's no place, there's
no camera, like just a camera, just grab
it and talk it up to nothing we can do.
Cost of doing business.
Um, yes. Oh, question.
So, go ahead, please. Thank you,
sir. Um, so question. So, I know I think
this is more towards the towards the
mayor. I know that we're put you're
still in the final process of getting
that mailer together. Um, my question
is, are we enforcing this now? Cuz I I
did get a call about someone getting a
fine. And I guess the question is are we enfor these enforcement now
before we're mailing out the stickers to
people?
What were they fighting for? So So they
told me it was a there was a a I think
she said a TV and but it was $75. She
said that she was fine. So I guess the
question is are we are we I'm sorry.
Okay. Sorry. She looked down in here.
Okay. I thought you were helping maybe
you got the same call. Um, so I guess
the question is are we currently
enforcing
um the sticker rule without
it could have been it could have been a
fine for so Okay. So without the address
violation I can't sure I'll make sure I
have reach out to you and look it up. Go
ahead. Thank you. Um, so I I I think our
$50 fines for putting your trash out
early or whatever that that soft start
is over. Now they're $75. That's the
administrative fee that was approved by
the council to go to $75. Thank you.
Well, we passed the resolution. I think
we have to code. The code still says 50.
I'm sorry. I think the code still says
50. So we we did Yeah, we didn't we didn't up it to 75. It's still $50 there. So I'm not sure
why why charging $75.
Huh? No, we did not. It remains the
administrative fee remains at the $50.
So Mr. Party, let's get back to that
first. Can you get some information
regarding how we do that?
I think we did when we were when we were
reviewing this document. I I don't think
we touched on the administrative fee
check through the um police department
because the administrative fee was I
think it's
broad. I
think that that came through. Yeah. But
that was code enforcement
we for violations. I don't know if you know if it's not going to be covered
under us then we'll let them call me.
go back to $50. Yeah. No, it's
$50 on this document here. So, we need
to either keep it at 50 or we need to
change
from page seven. That is
page of this document here. We back up
62 right down to the bottom. Last
paragraph. Mhm. Yeah. We didn't we
didn't I can recall vividly that we
didn't touch on the administrative
Yes, code enforcement, we did increase
the $75 administrative fees.
Any other questions? That was that was
my um Do you have any more questions?
No, those those are the questions in in
the back. Okay. All right. Any other
business for finance? Thank you. Uh Mr.
Chairman, uh I have asked that Mr. Gokan
put in the request for approval tenative
agreement with CSEA that was dropped
from the agenda today and CSEA is
maintaining basis that that should move
forward.
Go ahead, please. Go ahead. So, there
was a between the city um and
CSEA. However,
um the was a what they called a typo in
the MOA and uh that was voted for by the
entire body, voted by on the voted on by
the entire body. They realized later
there was a typo in the MOA and then
created another MOA which I when I spoke
to Mr. McCabe that I recommended to him
that he called it an addendum. Um and
that was not voted on by the entire
body. He said he spoke to several people
about it and everybody was okay with it
but there was not a meeting called where
the entire body was voted on it. I spoke
to Mr. about it. I spoke to Mr. we could
talk about it and this was on Friday I
believe and we were both um comfortable
with the fact that it is being voted on
by the entire body. I did not feel
comfortable that something that just
happened through conversations as
opposed to the entire membership being
called and present and to vote on was
something that the council shouldn't
move forward on without there being a
meeting and some written documentation
of the meeting. So when we had that
conversation Mr. Gammuck agreed with it,
Mr. McCabe agreed with it and that's how
we walked away from it. Um there would
be some retroactive pay, but delaying
this call calling for another meeting
would not change that pay, but it would
put the council and the um this MOA in the position of having the MOA with
all the correct information voted on by
the entire
body so that there's not an addendum
that goes with it and it's not done just
simply by talking to various people and
saying, you know, no one no one
disagreed cuz conceivably someone could say that I wasn't consulted on
this. But if there's a membership
meeting that does not come into play. So
you have the email in front of you that
I did send um that Mr. Book where he he
sent that and um I again feel strongly
that we should make it's two weeks and
that it's it's not going to change the
amount of money but that we should have
this done and at the entire membership
there should be a meeting called and
this not have be done by conversations
with various people that that really
there's no written documentation for.
Not saying the conversation didn't take
place. However, say it's cleaner and we
make sure we have a meeting that's
called and no member can say if they
didn't attend the meeting, they didn't
intend the meeting, but that there was
not a meeting where they could come and make their voices heard on this. And
for the record, the um the typo was
really significant in terms of the
information that was provided in the
original MOA and what it was changed to.
So, ma'am, do we have a draft of the
MOA? There is no MOA here that I signed.
So, it's non-existent. CSEA's position
is we've negotiated a contract, we've
entered into it, they've approved it,
and it's now to the city council to
ratify that and allow me to sign the
final document.
But the the document that they sent
again had that misinformation that they
wanted to to add an addendum that did
not was not presented to the entire
body. So, where is that document? Uh,
Mr. Ste, unless I sign that, it doesn't
exist. So, you have
somebody there was a title in there that
is not in the budget.
When you adopt the budget, it says any
position that's not funded, it's
abolished, right? So, it's a non-issue.
And there's also a title in there that
they incorrectly put in there that we
can print it out for you. There's
entitle in there that the information is
incorrect and then they wanted it re and
then they wanted to uh do the addendum
which was done by
conversations to change that
title as opposed to being in the
original MOA that was that the um the
membership voted on.
Would that call for a budget
reappropriation? approval upon adoption
of the contract by the city council and
we would go back budget amendment when
we do the retro any salary adjustments.
So, Mr. Mr. Moair um and and council
members, I just wanted to make sure if
we're changing that and there are going
to be amendments to addendums amendments
to the um to the actual MOA that was
going on by the body that the entire
body get to vote on it again as opposed
to any addendum being made by
conversations. What Mr. McCabe said is
there were typos and they corrected the
typos based on this additional um MLA. I
would just like it's he said it would
not be a problem. the retroactive money
still happens for them to bring their
body together. So, everyone um again
gets to vote on it as the CSA's position
is best the council can move
forward that should be entered into an
improper
practice. Okay.
Could you repeat that please?
Negotiated a contract. Mhm. It's been
approved by the membership
going forward to the council. CSEA's
position, which I've outlined here, is
that it should go forward. Choosing not
to go forward, making references to an
unsigned MOA. It's on their agreement.
You're really moving the council into a
position which could be considered an
improper practice. So you're suggesting
that that we make an amendment to what
they agreed on based on not having
another meeting because that's what it
really this has boiled down to. I mean
Miss M um Mu was there present for the
conversations and again Mr. Mr. Mugamuk
that is what we we discussed and you
were quite comfortable with. I'm not
sure where this has um has actually as a
matter of fact there were a lot of he
had a lot of questions about the MOA and
the additional
changes that were not voted on and and
so you know that's where we are. It's
not an improper practice but mayor quite
frankly I'm not comfortable um voting
something through that the entire body
didn't get an opportunity to to weigh in
on. Let's go back one step. Do you have
a copy of the
MOA? I have seen it and I've seen the
amendment as well in the amendment and
that has my signature on it. Nope.
There's no
signature. You can type anything up. You
can wave it around. You can say whatever
you want till I sign it and the
representative of CSEA sign it. It's not
an agreement. But what he's saying what
was what he is saying that he being
Stephen Cape is what was presented is
incorrect and he needs to make some
changes need to be made to that. Mr. Mr.
Book, would you like to speak to
this? Come on up, please. Please come
up.
So, it was under my impression. Um, I
believe after you spoke with Steve
McCabe, um, he was not comfortable with
whatever the language or the case was.
Um, the agreement needs to change. Um,
so I after our discussion, um, I said he
was not comfortable with that and would
like to take it off the agenda. Um, I I
said I believe that would be fine. Not
that he's not comfortable with it, but
he wanted to make an
amendment based on and you saw the
document cuz you sent it to us. You sent
it today, right? Yes. Yes. And you saw
the document and it was there was an
amendment that again did not go through
a discussion with the whole body. Was it
document sent to the council or just so
No, no, because we we decided that we're
taking it off. So, okay. Yes.
So, why are I'm sorry I'm Why are we
talking about this if there's no way?
Well, CSA is we do have a tenative
agreement with CSA.
I'm just like, so can that be shared to
the entire council? There is a there is
an agreement which I sent to the city
council
this yes today right
city I sent it last week you lent it
last week and then Mr. So he sent it he
sent it last week and then Mr. McCabe
said there was something wrong with it,
that it was incorrect. And so then on
Friday, he brought a document that he
also called an MA changing the language
because of the er the clerical errors
that were made in there. That was
brought up on
Friday which he said he brought to the
mayor and the mayor at that time. I'm
repeating what Mr. McCabe said, he had
not seen that before. So again, um to to
me for and then Mr. McCabe again said
that they needed to change it but the
changes had not been voted by um the
entire body but they had had
conversations with people and you say
you send it to the entire council or you
just send it to the president and the
miss president. Okay. So it's not the
council. So you don't you don't
have to do no because the discussions
came up and then it was on the agenda so
it would have gone out and then on
Friday we had the conversation. So then
it came off the agenda. I want to make
that very clear. We did not receive
correspondence because it was not on the
agenda. Well, there was a legislative
request that went in for it. And just
for have put in the record, this is from
Angela Angelique by water. Please be
advised that CSEA was not aware that
this request was made and acted upon,
which I didn't act upon it, so it's just
out there. It is CSEA's position that
the membership voted and ratified the
contract on March 11th,
2025. I sent an email notify a
notification to the city of the
ratification vote and then last week
scanned a formal letter notifying the
city such
and then again on Friday, Mr. McCabe
said there were there were errors. So I
think before
we just vote it through without having
at least Mr. McCabe here having it vote
through again that because he is he is
the the um president of the union and he
is the one who said that there were we
there need to be some changes made in
the document that was not something that
I came up with.
So can can we get these changes uh
before Monday and we can put this on for
unanimous consent
again? You wouldn't have had the I'm not
signing the tenative agreement. You
could move forward with consent. I'm
telling you I'm not signing that MOA
that was presented in Brighton. So, and
that's the problem that he said that he
didn't want to send the MOA because the
one that the one page that he
gave the one page is actually not the
original MOA. It's an addendum to it
that he's asking for. This addendum was
not voted through by the through the
body,
right? The original MOA which we
negotiated has been approved by the
membership. Right. Yeah. So, which is
what I'm saying that the second one he
would have to go back to the membership.
Why are we even
talking about the agenda? Because allow
a man to proceed with his negotiation
and then bring him to Congress. No
negotiations. I completed the
negotiations. Now, you approved it. Now,
it requires the city council to approve
it. So, I think we just need to bring it
forward two weeks. whatever move forward
with our we need to move forward and get
this done and whatever and um we're not
part of the negotiation so that's
between like I said it's the the chair
um the president of the union who
brought these additional things forward
to the mayor on Friday. Okay. So, so
let's let's wait and get everything
together and then move forward.
But Mr. McCain is was comfortable with
what he said on Friday, but the mayor
will not sign it. Yeah. So there's a little bit of disconnect here
that it needs to they needs to iron out
the differences to us. Yes, they need to
iron out the differences agree whatever
they need to agree on and move forward
and bring it to us and let's move
forward with it. All right. I don't
think we have any issue with approving
contracts for for workers to approve
over the years contract and reward our
hard workers. All right. Any other
business for finance? Motion to adjurnn.
So moved. Second. All in favor? I thank
you.
Yeah, let's call the board of government
operations. We have two items on the
agenda. First is shadowing city jobs.
Mr. Williams, thank you. Um, I think we
can all agree that shadowing city jobs
is important and important to what we
do. Um, I don't believe any of us have
the direct knowledge or understanding of
the day-to-day. So having the ability to
uh be in walk in their shoes for a
limited period of time I think is an
important um gradient that allows us to
better understand the decisions we make
and their impacts on their day-to-day
lives. Uh so the reason why this is
coming forward is uh I myself uh pride
myself on getting out into the community
and understanding and working with the
city staff in my limited capacity and I
understand it is a sincerely a snapshot
of what they do day in day out. Um but a
recent request was denied which is
something I have not had to experience
and in my request for further updates
have not received an answer. Um, so I'd
say at this time it's wanting to put in
place a formal process that one supports
that this is within the mayor's purview
as staffing is, which I openly
understand and agree with. It's not that
my agreements has anything to do with
that. um but wanted to implement another
series that formally addresses how um
how refusals or
uh or not approvals is handled. That way
we can remedy whatever disagreements or
whatever inks there is present uh to
ensure that this doesn't hold up the
intent of any council member to get into
and see the jobs.
[Music]
special. Sorry. Um I mean anytime I've
wanted to do something like this, which
primarily has been I have not ridden on
the garbage truck as Mr. Williams has
and probably won't, but I have certainly
uh gone out with our police and our fire
um and talked to other staff, but I've
always just gone to the mayor's office
and asked first um for permission to do
so um because I feel like I don't want
to overstep my role and that the mayor,
you know, I've really usually just said,
um is it okay if I, you know, sit down
and talk with X, Y, or Z or, you know,
go out uh and and try to be a group of
commisser. Um I'm not really
understanding. I mean to me it's sort of
simple, doesn't need a lot of
conversation. Um it's simple and
straightforward. Mr. Williams has put a
request in. Uh he's been given access
anytime he has asked for asked to
uh spend time with uh the assessment
office. I declined that because of
pending workplace violence claims, other
questions that are being dealt with with
city council's rapport with that office
in internal conflicts that I had. So,
putting another council member in there,
I felt grossly complicated the
operations of that department. I
declined it. And when those issues are
resolved, he's more than happy to spend
time in the assessment or any other
office that he
wants. Mr. Bonds, right? And I'd say at
this time, this is the most information
I've received on the topic. Had I
received that when asked, I think that
would have prevented me taking these
measures. I would say at this present
time we are at this juncture and I think
it is important to put in place a policy
so that there is not the need to have to
replicate this course of events.
I still think it's the prerogative of
the mayor to you know approve or not
approve. Um so so I don't really think
we need a policy I guess is what I'm
saying.
So Mr. Williams and then Mr. Right. But
I would say there's also the prerogative
if you're asking for an update to
receive a response and this conversation
where you point how to receive a
response.
Thank you. Again, as Miss Patrick says,
I think it's up to the mayor. Um, you
know, different departments at different
times may be busy. Um, and you know,
it's not a place for shadowing at that
particular time during tax receipts or
things like that. So, um, again, you
know, we go to the mayor, you request
it. The I did provide an email response.
It was a brief summary, not to get into
the gross details of it. And sorry
things don't move quite as fast as you
like, but that's my position. Still
would decline the council member
engaging in anything with the assessment
office. Okay. Before
we
address, so I but how I understand what
Mr. Williams is saying is that having a
process in place
um can increase that communication.
Therefore, I I don't think that Hold on
a second, Mr. Mayor. I'll be done in a
second. Thank you. What I was saying is
that I don't think Mr. Williams was
suggesting at all that you're not going
to approve or disapprove, but maybe
having like a hey, I want to visit this
department for this reason. and then you
or who you your designate says, "Hey,
thank you call for your interest in this
um doesn't work this time, maybe look to
the future and just operationalizing
that." That might not be uh the worst
idea and I would hate for uh this to
turn into um something um more along the
lines of uh where we're drawing lines in
the sand around access to departments,
but we don't need to do that. we can
just uh I I agree that it is in reality
and I think that by having
something as a process um wouldn't be a
worse thing. I don't see like why would
we even might push back on something
like that. Well, why don't we look at
the process? So, I've been here I think
13 years 14 years might even be today is
the anniversary. Have never declined
one. Everybody's had access one time.
So, if the council wants to change that
policy so that everything is reviewed
and we'll periodically decline stuff, go
ahead.
I don't think we need to. I mean, I'm
not on this committee, but I it sounds
like it was a one-off.
I guess my question unless other people
have had um I mean, I've never It's
never happened before. So, it's a one
time and there are issues still there
that I'm dealing with.
So, this question is for the mayor since
um um involves a council member. Is that
something you want to tell us about in
executive session or is that something
you prefer not to I'm not going to get
into it at this point. Okay. Allegations
and there's discussion and review the
time going. Okay. and the assessment
office you
said with quotes around that maybe I
don't concern. Yes. So I guess my
further question is um if there were
requests for shadowing the department
where there people were not having uh
concern with their interaction with the
council member. That's something that
would I just said that it's never been
declined before. Mr. Williams has never
been declined. Uh we have police here.
want to go out with the police tonight.
So, they'll make it available.
They
make so for clarity, how I understand it
is that the the the fact that you
declined um wasn't the issue. It was the
fact that uh there was um you were
trying to understand understand why that
was and you know that a process had a
process in place to explain that. I'm
sorry miss just talking out loud. Sorry.
Okay. You have the floor. No, I just
think it's something that could just be
handled oneonone. Um doesn't need to
come to council. Okay. I would Sounds
like there was a there was a little bit
of a disagreement and
No. And at at this point I'm not going
to speak up. I understand that the mayor
is going to make decisions with the best
interest of city hall in mind and I
contend to that openly. If as a council
member I am asking for an update so that
I can uphold the duties that I was voted
on to perform and I do not get an answer
back. This is the only formal process we
have so I can receive said answer. I've
gotten that today but I did not receive
that prior to today. you know, and and
Miss Patrick, I I would echo what you're
saying around like maybe some one-on-one
conversations. Um, the conversation
usually involves two people, unless
you're me driving your car, sometimes I
talk to myself, but usually you have to
have two people that are willing to
participate and for it to be uh at least
reciprocal communication. So I think
that and I agree, but I also will
highlight that often if we're having a
candid conversation here, which is
appears that we are, there's multiple
things that are brought to this table
that could be summed up in the
conversation. I think we just
experienced one of those things a couple
minutes ago with the email um that was
shared uh that wasn't necessarily on the
agenda. So I agree with that practice as
making sure that we can um streamline
communication in a more effective
manner.
Um but if communication if someone is
reaching out um and is not uh being
communicated back with or at least
sufficient communication then one must
take steps. So I but I do agree with
that and I hope that we all can hold
ourselves to that standard of reaching
out to people and not trying to make a
spectacle or something at a a council
meeting or a committee meeting. Maybe we
all should think about that. Mhm.
Cuz I don't think that that's what
necessarily uh this is. I think that
this was pretty clear that he was okay
with the no but wanted to get the
information and felt like he wasn't. So
now he's putting something in place so
it doesn't happen again moving forward.
And I think that that's
a appropriate
response. Any other questions about
that? Is that something that you want to
um have a further conversation about,
Mr. Williams? So, no need to uh move
anything on that. I need more. Okay.
Thank you. Moving on to our fourth. How do you pronounce this?
Last
time Mr. Williams last time I called it
before. It wasn't don't do that. Come
on.
So I think for the sake of time when I
said briefly move through uh with still
giving proper uh uh validity to this um
I put in place just some um information
I've been able to compile I didn't
receive any updates. We definitely can
receive that from the council right now
essentially what I've compiled with
respect to this position was it should
be a city resident over the age of 21.
Um part of the expectations is um
supporting civic and community media
engagement opportunities. This
individual must have published bodies of
work or more uh cannot have a previous
polarate um and then the porates will be
chosen um by a nominating committee and
then this committee will also serve as a
reviewing committee to ensure the works
of this uh position are upheld. Uh there
were previous comments about wanting to
investigate the previous commission or
the previous position at the county
level. They're confirmed that position
does not exist. Uh there were further
conversations about whether we could
integrate uh across the county. Uh and I
think that'd be a conversation with the
nominee reviewing committee and also the
first port laurate. I don't think there
will be any issues with that. Um there's
a big county with a lot of significant
needs. I've been referencing Saratoga's
Fort Laurate and it seems as though this
individual has been presenting written
works at holiday engagements um and
they're published online. I think the
next step would be just formal
formalizing some language so that we can
add this to the city's website and also
to um publish their works on the city
website. But um without any further
questions, it would just be me coming
back putting this to writing and then
having us read that uh review that
formal text. Sure. My my only thought
would be then not having something
published initially. I think maybe we
should broaden that a little bit cuz you
might have those people that have been
working on their craft for a while but
haven't necessarily acting published but
then we be the first person to publish
it just to cast a wide net. But this is
really good. Yeah. No, I definitely
think the person should I I agree with
Mr. Williams initial um you know again
doing a lot of research about this and
thinking about other poet laureates. I
think the person should have a
substantial body of work already
published to earn the honorarium of of
being the poet laurate. Um so I would I
would want to see a published body of
work. I'm fine for the nominating
committee or the selection committee to
make those further um what would you
call it? You know decide what the what
the criteria was going to be. But I do
think that somewhat of an extensive
published work um of poetry um would be important um if we were going
to be doing this. I did say the last
time the last meeting that we talked
about this that I know Mr. Williams was
suggesting maybe not have and I know we haven't put this in the budget but
not having an honorarium. Um but I do
think that especially if I mean in my
experience poet laurate would be
especially like this is national poetry
month you know would be going into the
schools and um talking to you know
teaching poetry and and working with
kids in the schools um during national
poetry month. Um, and I think if we were
going to be, you know, hoping that
somebody would have that, um, they
they'd also want to have some teaching
experience. Obviously, they have to be
able to be able to communicate with
children, but, um, you know, that there
would be some sort of stipend um, for
the poet laurate. Um, yet to be
determined how we get that money, but
um, I have some ideas there myself, but
um, and shared some of those with Mr.
Williams. But I do think that that cuz
it's going to be work uh for this
person. Uh you know, usually they might
go in for like a full week and do like
every third grade, every fourth grade,
and then a public presentation or
something like that. So, you know, but
it's just something to consider. But I I
do like the idea. Um because I know that
you did do some research and and did do
some some thought about this with other
looking at other poet laurates.
Yeah. So not so and I I agree and I can
see why there's some well I don't
necessarily agree but I can see where
that there's um um some value in having
someone has a significant amount of
published work. So my thought on on that
and I didn't want to spend too much time
on it due to what Mr. Williams opened up
the topic but I think it's it's not
worthy to say that. So right here in
Skenctity um we've done one of the
largest uh spoken word poetry shows in
New York State. right here at Proctor
and a large amount of those poets, they
are spoken word artists and they don't
have things that are traditionally
published but now nowadays um you know
people self-publish online on blogs,
things of that nature. So I think that
if we it would just be and and I don't
think this is something that we need to
hash out now. I just wanted to be clear
that my intention around them not having
to have something um published. I think
in more of the traditional published
sense and I want to make sure that we
are incre increasing always access and
opportunities cuz we get a larger more
diverse population when we do so. So
that's that was my intention around
that. So I would say we can simply
broaden that
definition to incorporate new age. So I
think that's a
way together. Um any other questions or
thoughts on
this hearing? None. I will accept a
motion to adjourn by two weeks. Oh,
you're going to bring it back two weeks.
Awesome. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Br two
weeks. Second. We are journ. Thank you.
I'd like to call uh to order public
service and utilities. We have two items
on the agenda tonight. Uh Grace Road and
uh discussion regarding street.
Hello.
A legislative request we have in front
of you tonight is for what we're calling
phase three of the um price well
waterfall project. Um we started this
about 3 years ago. Um uh moving forward
we put the new wells in. We put three
new wells in. Um then we moved into the
flidation uh part of it and this is the
final phase where it would be the
wellhouses themselves mechanical um
general contracting electrical
contracting uh which includes a new
substation. So you have a sort of a
standalone system at the water wells. Um
so there's a redundant system to always
be able to provide drinking water to the
city safety if something was to happen
to the main building at the plant. Um
originally we had 12 wells there. Uh
we're down to eight. We did put three in
a year and a half ago. Uh good
producers. They produce about 3,000
gallons a minute. So this would be the
uh the final phase or phase three of the
project to get everything online. Um the
general contract, the lowest responsible
bidder was Keller at
$5,224,668. And the electrical contract
should go to Stillson Electric. Um the
low bid was disqualified because it was
insufficient. So a low bid on the
electrical to the one vendor was
disqualified. Um and that was based on
recommendations from law. So the second
next responsible bid would be still
electric for 2.784 million. Um so we
move this forward. Any questions? Yes.
Actually the this is for corporation
council. Um can you just without giving
us the name can you give us the
parameters that that why um what was the
insufficiency was unresponsive there's
certain requirements you have to you
know when you deal with steel bidding
you have to hit all those benchmarks and
they missed the benchmark efficient so
therefore it's not considered okay thank
you any other questions miss so um this
uh so the funding is already it says to
for major to be determined. Yes, I spoke
to Derek uh this morning on there are
different funding sources we have to
pull from. There's money left over from
the original grant. We did get a grant
for $3 million to do the wells wasn't
all expended. So, there's money there.
So, it'll be a combination of different
cost codes. And then there will be some
city funds that were approved
previously. I think it was right. So,
but all the money is there.
Yes. Give her
That's my question. Okay. Would you
rather drink water? All right. Fair
enough.
Oh, seeing that seeing no other
questions, um I'd like to uh recommend
that we u move forward with the
contracts for uh William J. Suns for
5,224,668 and Sterling
electric in the amount of
$2,784,585 for a total of8,9253.
I'll make that motion. Second.
Mr. Manini. All in favor?
Thank you, Mr. Mr. U. Next is a
discussion uh regarding uh the W street
sewage pipeline pipeline. Mr. Williams,
thank you. So, this item is actually
going to be removed and added back on in
two weeks. Uh just for transparency uh a
more appropriate version of the petition
was presented and that provides uh more
of the ask for the city code. So, just
wanted to make sure there are no
barriers in place before this is
formally reviewed.
Can you take a motion to move it uh put
it on the agenda for two weeks? Yes. But
we don't have to move that. It's only a
discussion. Yes. Thank you.
Uh seeing nothing else um for public
service and utilities, I'd like to make
a motion to close.
Second. All in favor?
Second. Second. All in favor?
Or city development
site. We have 13 items on the
agenda. Um so the first item is the
um state environment policy secret for
the reszoning of the form of St. Clair's
Hospital. I don't see uh Miss Carver
present.
Mr. Okay, you're replacing Mr. Gil is
also available if there's any questions.
All right. Go ahead, sir. Um, so
speaking of place, Miss Carver was out
at a training this week. Um, last month
the planning commission reviewed the uh,
recommendation for the resoning for the
St. Clair's parcel and the
um, parcels next.
They voted
to recommend a resoning from it's
currently a mixture of institutional
districts R1 and R2. Reszone all of
those to R3. Um and then the
recommendation from the department of de
development was to adopt a negative
seeker declaration for this project. Um
the reason being is R3 was determined to
be the least intensive zoning district
that was feasible for this parcel. Um
other zoning districts were talked about
in terms of R1 R2 cuz demolition costs
and return on investment would were
deemed not infeasible for a vast
majority if not all potential
developers. Um, so R3 was a good use for
the parcel. It's about 20 acres total,
which would be suitable for multif
family development. Um, there's
sufficient parking on site in order to
accommodate that. And um, any potential
applicants that come forward could
potentially use some light commercial,
light retail um, in that, but not as
intensive as you would see in the
current institutional or other
commercial districts. Okay. Were there
any questions regarding this?
I'll entertain a motion. So move. So
second all in favor. Thank you.
And the second item is to u the city
zone map to reszone the properties that
make up former St. Clair's um from the
um institutional R institutional
district to R3 multiple family
residential. And there was a public
hearing on 224 and as recall no one came
to speak on that. Was there anyone
except Mr. Young I think. Were you there
for public hearing? Right. That was it.
But he was in favor of it.
[Music]
Meeting too with the neighborhood weeks
ago. So,
thank you. You're welcome. Thank you,
Jack, for covering the secret item. Uh,
this is a pivotal vote tonight. We hope
to move this forward next week. Uh, we
don't we can't have a big empty hospital
in the middle of the city. We just can't afford to knock it down. It cost
10 million bucks. Nobody has that money.
It'd be a shame to knock down. It's a
great building. It's uh it's got great
history. My two sons were born there. I
tell people, "My mother had a heart
attack in front of LS. She say, "Take me
to St. Clair's." You know, there's that
kind of history and connectity about
this building. So, we're going to save
it. We're going to preserve it. We have
developers who are going to put $50
million into it. Uh build a pool,
outdoor pool there, pickle ball courts.
It's going to be u daycare there, 200
some apartments. plenty of parking. It's
a less intensive use than a hospital. Uh
going to really help the the price
chopper next door, the market 32. Access
to the park. Uh the developers are
really excited about the project.
Unanimous vote by the planning
commission. Great neighborhood meeting
up on Albert Street uh a couple weeks
ago. Uh terrific turnout, a lot of good
back and forth, a lot of strong support.
The developers got a big ovation at the
end of the meeting.
We're really excited to move this
forward and uh get working on this
hospital and uh make sure we save the
building and um we get some developers
to put $50 million into our city. Be a
great great great uh move forward. Happy
to answer any questions.
Mr. Williams, uh just as a point of
clarity, I definitely like transparency.
There were some negative comments, not
say in comparison to the overwhelming uh positive response. uh those negative
concerns were with regards to winning a
traffic study and then just the negative
impacts of property value based on this.
Could you speak to those? Sure. So, we
looked at the traffic numbers and the
traffic numbers on Mlullen are way way
down like 30% down because it's no
longer a hospital. People aren't pulling
in in the middle of the night having
babies or having heart attacks or having
sick kids. They're not coming in with
sirens. They're not coming in with
ambulances and fire trucks. It's a much
quieter place and the traffic count will
continue to go down with this project.
So, it's a cal a traffic calming uh
project. Uh and we've looked at all the
numbers from DOT. So, I'm glad you rose
that arose raised that point. The next
issue was some people were saying, can't
you build single family homes there?
Well, you can't because there's three
medical buildings on the campus. They
all stay and the main hospital because
we're using historic tax credits has to
stay. But if you had someone came up and
magically dropped $10 million on us to
knock it down, you could only build a
handful of homes there because you still
have to have the driveway. You still
have the three medical buildings which
are owned by different folks. And then
you'd have a very small footprint of the
hospital to build single family homes,
but it it doesn't make sense. And you
you'd blow up this building that has a
great history and still has a strong
useful life ahead of it. So we're all
about preservation. would try to save
buildings rather than knock them down.
So those issues were addressed. Pro the
worst thing we had one woman from
Bradley that we talked to and she was
concerned. She said her property values
are really going up in the city which is
great and we we said the worst thing
that can happen is for nothing to
happen. The building goes dark. The
building gets shut down. then you're
going to have people dumping mattresses
there, parking cars there, abandoning
cars, um graffiti on the building. So,
the do nothing approach is the one
that's going to hurt property values the
most. So, we were really able to kind of
address that with some of the some of
the residents that we can't do nothing.
That just doesn't work. And you can't
build like three single family homes
there in the middle of a medical campus.
Just didn't make sense. So, those are
great points. I'm glad you raised them.
I think really this is a welcoming open
public meeting and uh everybody got
their answers their questions answered.
Thank you.
Sure. Just to address that really quick
as well because there were a few
negative comments at Oh, absolutely.
There were a few negative comments at
the planning commission as well. Um a
lot of them dealt with SP sites plan
specific comments. So if we talk about
just the resoning and we take the
applicant out of the
equation, leaving it as
institutional invites a lot of different
uses that would not be allowed in the
R3. That would exacerbate a lot of these
concerns. As Mr. Gillan said, it was an
active hospital before. That is on the
table currently. You could put in a more
intensive school that could be filled
up. you know, a lot of different items
and businesses that could attract a lot
more traffic um and a lot more potential
nuisances for the community that having
apartments will not. So, even if we take
the the specific application out that's
on the table, the reasoning is was
deemed to be the least intensive for the
neighborhood. Good point. Mr. Chair,
just to follow up, this is this is just
reszoning. This is not my use. This is
on resigning. So, right, this is that's
what's before the council. I'm getting
myself as usual.
Um, any other questions? Just a
clarification on the um Thank you. on
the legislative request uh on the
legislative request which is really uh
had to be up should have been updated.
The recommendation was for us to call a
public hearing of what you have in your
packet, but the recommendation really
should be just to based on what was um
the public hearing information to pass
this at this point. with a negative
declaration. Is that exactly right? So
that's what we're actually doing
tonight. So So it will be the seeker the
seeker resolution has a negative
declaration and the zone change. Right.
Right. So um we can update this
too, but I just want to make sure that
everyone understands it's not within
here.
All right. Okay. Any other questions?
All those in favor? Thank you
both. And thank you. You're going to be
here.
Okay. So the next item is recommendation
of AR recommendation of Arbor Day and
saves connected that. Yeah. Thank you
very um yeah so this is a pretty simple
one just to uh we're working with uh
take our parks director as well um
recognizing our day is a requirement for
our tree city USA application uh which
we successfully received for 2024. We're
hoping to do the same in 2025. Uh we
have a plan in place for some tree
plantings in Central Park in order to
commemorate the event. Um should be a
good community event I believe for
February the 25th just to to celebrate
our trees.
Questions concerns. I moved second. All
those in favor? I. Thank
you. Item number four MS4 update. Mr.
[Music]
Let me just check. National championship
tip off is in 35
minutes. I pick up chicken wings at
8:30. So you
guys chicken wings on order
8:30. Thank you for the record. MS4. So,
what I wanted to do was since I usually
come to these meetings anyways, I wanted
to talk to you about the city's MS4,
which is uh New York State DEC
designates all municipalities of our
size as MS4s, which means that we are
the we're kind of deputized by the state
to be the regulating authority for storm
water in the area. So, for the city, we
regulate the city. Um, it's a it's a
challenge. Um, we don't have an MS4
officer anymore officially. that
position was removed. So, we have I have
deputized a consultant to help us with
this. Uh the consultant role is
important because what I'm talking about
is they just updated the rules this year
after a six-year uh update. They finally
made it official. Uh and this is going
to be a 5-year program um of of new
rules and operations for the city. So,
I'm kind of giving you a little bit of a
heads up. The report, one part of that
is just making sure the public's aware
of it. So, what we're going to be doing
is we just submitted the MS4 annual
report and it's going to be posted to
the city's website this week. So, that's
the the main thing for everybody to know
is that there is an MS4 annual report
that's going to be posted to the city's
website. So, the second thing to know is
that we're going to be having new
requirements going forward. So, I I just
put in your packet a couple of things.
So, this is a summarized uh inventory of
SWIPS and open MS4s in the city. So
you'll see a lot of familiar projects in
here because in order to be on this
list, you have to have a project site
over an acre. So it's a pretty good size
for a city lot to have over an acre. So
you'll see on here, city has their own.
Grout Park, we have to file our own for
that. Uh Colonial Car Wash, the new one
on Branding Wine Avenue, that one we're
closing out. But this is a list of
active projects. So we're we're trying
to close these out. But a new
requirement is this letter that we are
also working on and this is going to
come into the planning process as well
which is we need to document that people
are maintaining the practices which is
the catch basins and the storm sewers
and all the things on their property
that they have put in. So I'll use the
biggest example here which would be
Mohawk Harbor. Mohawk Harbor the group
put in very large vortex units. These
very large cases based storm water
units. Those are privately owned. I have
not gone over and inspected them.
However, now the DEC is saying that you
need to reach out to Glesie and people
like that with this letter and asked
them to document that they are cleaning
it and managing it and if they are not
then you need to help them put a plan in
place. So luckily we don't have you know
a thousand but this is also kind of
retroactive. This is active. So, I have
to work with planning on going back
slowly and finding out who may have one.
Um, and so I also want to bring this up
because this is still new and we're
still trying to figure it out, but it
may have an impact on budget because I
don't know how much this is going to
impact workload and things like that.
So, we may need uh a separate MS4 line
to make sure that we're in compliance
and I'll have all that ready for you by that point. Um, but I thought, like I
said, as advice you come and maybe do uh
two updates a year. I'm here usually
every other week anyways. So, it would
be good just to to get in front of you
with some of these things. So, right now
uh I want to just let you know is here
is our active inventory. The file is
posted. It will be on the website and
the next step is we're going to be
sending out letters to people with open
practices about them and their
maintenance.
Any general questions? Any questions?
Anyways, so just to be clear, you So
everyone here, you're going to have to
catch them up to date on this. Yes.
That's what the letters talks about is
that it doesn't act like I mean it acts
like this is new. It's a new
requirement. We're reaching out to you
to document it and then we're going to
be going forward. Um but if they don't
get back to you, that's where you get
into this little bit of, you know, now
I'm chasing down people for things and
they might not realize that there's a
management practice. Um so that's part
of working with the development
department. And now when they come for
planning and code review, they have to
they're going to have to give me their
operation and maintenance manual for
their systems. Um, another example would
be living
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skinc the outlet is clean. So you would
come and you give me a record that yes,
it was mowed twice. We inspected it.
it's in good standing. It's it's really
that simple. And then I would file that
and say that the living project has has
done that. So that's that's what we're
looking for essentially for the private
ones. And then the MS4 report that is
online that's for mostly for us right
now which says that you know we street
sweep that's a very big deal that we
street sweep weekly and we go out and
street sweep to get things out of the
catch basins that we use our vac trucks
to vacuum out catch basins that we're
really actively trying not to put
pollutants into the river and that's the
whole point of that. So, um, but this is
year one. It's going to keep the
requirements go up a little bit more
every year, but once again, I will, uh,
keep you a breast of the updates as as
we go.
Yes, Miss Patrick. Um, so, um, by when
do you have to have, you know, these
properties at least? Um, I have I have
one year. Oh, okay. So, I we
the we we did uh the locations of our
outfalls that was something that we did
last year. the maintenance. Now, the
this is essentially this year's agenda
item is to reach out and start getting O
andM manuals and practices in place and
showing them and then trying to do a
better job of reaching out to the public
and that's why I thought this would be a good step. Um we also uh in the past
when we had uh an MS4 officer, they
would go to farmers market. That may be
something that we do is just go there
and you have a board and you just talk
about it handouts. That seems to be what
we used to do when we had the officer,
but um maybe if it's a nice day, I'll bring the board and sit at the
farmers market. You know, it's just
that's how I check a box to get um the
public aware of what's going on. Oh,
thank you.
Questions,
concerns? Okay. So, we just need a
motion this Yes. Okay. I'll motion.
No motion. All right. So, thank you very
much. It's just you just talking. All
right. So, did we make your change time?
Well, I have one more, so we got to go.
Eight minutes.
All right. Item number five, master
agreement with the New York State
Department of Transportation for a new
federal aid project. So, uh this federal
a project was is on the tip and it is a
great project uh one that everybody's
really excited about. It is a
essentially second phase even though
it's not related on paper to the Central
Park connector project which was a
project that connected essentially the
dog park in Central Park to Veil Park.
Uh it was an on-road project widening
sidewalks brownly down Brandy Wine into
Veil. Um this project is taking where it
dead ends. Right now it operatively dead
ends at the new Cummings Connectity
Environmental Education Center and
you'll see it ends. Um, this project is
going to take where that ends and it's
going to bring it all the way through
the park to Fair Avenue and then down
Fair Avenue to State Street. And we're
hoping that the entirety of the project
is an off-road path. Um, and then that
will be able to have that connection
down to State Street and people will be
able to walk and ride up from State
Street to Fair. Um, and then that path
won't dead end anymore. And then the
goal would be then uh that connection
would also create that roof that we
want. If anybody ever walks the pond, uh
when you walk the pond and you're on
that path, it kind of ends and then you
go down to the pond and then you're by
the building and it it feels not
cohesive. It does feel very odd and then
this will actually create that loop. So
it be kind of a twofur project. Um so
it's a federal project. It's on, you
know, to extend our parks and trails.
Uh, I think it's it's going to be uh
enjoyed and utilized by everybody. Um,
and the other thing that we're going to
incorporate into this is we are going to
eliminate one of the entrances to the B
diamond parking lot. If anybody can kind
of remember that the duck pond, the B
diamond parking lot, there's like this
weird V entrance and we're going to
eliminate the really quick slip ramp
because we're getting we get complaints.
I've been talking with Mosaic about it
that people are are coming down and just
right into the lot. So, we really wanted
to slow down and make that turn. Um, so
one of those entrances is going to go
away.
Any questions?
Second. All those in favor?
Thank you. Sounds great. Excuse me.
You're going to make it. Um, the next
item is um to correct resolution
2025-1052
uh sale of 1656 Kerry
Street. Mr. Brown is joining us. Um
there's a way at a conference to explain
that. Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Brown.
Yes. Um so the original resolution
number
2025-052 which authorized the
u
contract at
166
resolution resolution to reflect
any
questions second. All in favor I I thank
you Mr. Brown.
Um the final items uh item 7 through 13
are for property sales which require us
going into executive session. Um so at
this time I'd like to recess city
development and
planning. So second. All in favor? We're
recess. So I'd like to call the claims
committee. We have one item on the
agenda tonight discussion that will need
to take place in executive session. So I
have a motion to enter executive
session.
Second. Second. All those in favor? I
members of the public will have to
leave.
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