I don't like the sound of that.
Thank you.
Good afternoon. I'll call this meeting to order. Welcome to the Resurbing
Dispolly Whistler Committee, the whole meeting for June 24th, 2025. Thank you for joining. My name is Jack Crompton. I'm the mayor of Whistler, and I would like to make a motion to appoint Councillor Jen Ford as Chair of this meeting. Is there a seconder? Seconded by Councillor Jewett. Are there any opposed? Motion carries. Councillor Ford. Thank you, mayor. Good afternoon, everyone.
Again, we are grateful to be here today on the Shared Unceded Territory of the Leal Watt
people, known in their language as Leal Watt tool, and the Squamish people, known in their
language as Gohomish.
We respect and commit to a deep consideration of their history, culture, stewardship, and
voice.
I'd like to introduce the other members of our elected council, Councillor Jessie Morton,
Councilor Jack Murrell, Councilor Kathy Jewett, Mayor Jack Crompton, Councilor Al Porzsafe,
and Councilor Arthur Jung.
And we also have many members of our professional staff here today, Chief Administrative Officer
of Virginia Collian, General Managers, Dale Michelson, Karen Elliott, James Halleasey, and
in place of Ted Madison today, we have Carly Price.
And we have a Deputy Corporate Officer, Caitlin Hodson and Council Coordinator, Pilar
Mingietta.
We also have other members of our professional staff here today.
Thank you for being here.
This meeting is being recorded and will be available at wasser.ca.
Could I ask that someone please make a motion that the Committee of the whole adopt the meeting
agenda for today.
Okay, moved by Councillor Forsyth, seconded by Councillor Dijeron.
Do we do first names in committee of the whole?
Okay, we'll do that.
On the motion, all in favour?
Is there anyone opposed to motion carries?
Could someone please make a motion that we adopt the committee of the whole meeting minutes
of June 10th, moved by Jack, seconded by Jesse, all in favour, any opposed to motion carries?
Okay.
Okay, today we have a presentation by the Manager of Parks Planning, Martin Pardo,
who will be presenting the Recreation Trail Strategy Report. Welcome, Martin.
Great, thank you. It's great to be here this afternoon, and we'll run through this presentation.
So the purpose of today is to re-familiarize everyone with the Recreation Trail Strategy.
provide a high level overview, flag critical areas of note, and then identify next steps moving forward.
I'm going to go back in time a bit here to talk about why we're actually doing this project.
And you may recall back in part of the pandemic and in the early days of the pandemic,
there was a lot of concerns about trails in our community.
Things about lack of transparency with how trail planning occurs.
There were environmental and wildlife concerns, parking and access were an issue.
I know the area of Mountain View Drive was sometimes referred to as the next jaw-free
lakes in terms of parking.
There was unauthorized trail building which is always a problem.
There was questions about funding and limits to growth when or enough trails enough, and
there were other headwinds were there.
A lot of these things were captured in the local media over a number of years as well as in
other places.
So with all of that, we thought, let's just take a breath and work on this project.
So the purpose of the REC trail strategy is to respond to feedback from the community
about various trail-related issues, to elevate the community's general knowledge regarding
the trail ecosystem, if I can call it that, in Whistler, provide direction and guidance around
common friction points, and how can we move forward on these items, and provide the basis
is for a future comprehensive trail planning initiative. So, essentially, the
REC trail strategy is intended as a comprehensive forward-looking framework.
Sorry, got my buttons mixed up.
There we go. It's intended as a comprehensive
forward-looking framework designed to guide the planning, development, management,
and stewardship of Whistler's non-motorized recreation trail network. Before
diving into this, I did want to distinguish between what a strategy is and what's
more commonly referred to as a master plan, which we now referred to as a comprehensive
plan.
So a strategy is an overarching guide about how we make decisions.
For the RTS, it's designed to answer questions like, what is the trail planning review and
approval process for trails located across a variety of land managers?
And how do we determine the most appropriate parts to approach to parking at any given location?
Whereas a comprehensive plan of what we would refer to as a master plan is usually more
development focused. It aims to answer questions such as where and when can we build more trails to
reduce the load on say the loss lake trail network and which trails could we modify for accessible
mountain biking and skilled development in new riders or wouldn't it be great to build a trail
from here to here to here and we could do this and that that's more a comprehensive trail plan.
So strategy high level guidance comprehensive plan what we need or want and where it should be.
The RTS has been in development for some time, and through several phases, we did retain
local consultants' cascade environmental and the Wester Center for Sustainability in
2021 to help provide technical and engagement support.
The trail planning working group and the Recreation and Leisure Advisory Committee of Council were
active participants in the early days of the project, and along the way we did make referrals
to both the Lilwatt Nation and the School of Homage Nation of which there has been ongoing
dialogue through the course of the project.
Like to remind everyone, also there were three rounds of community engagement, the first
of which was in March 2021.
Of course, the pandemic prevented us offering an in-person event, instead we hosted an online
information session and survey.
And during this round, we presented 12 different trail topics, which are things that were
a source of concern, such as on authorized trails, commercial event uses, trail planning,
etc. We asked participants to rate how important each one of these topics was to them and ideas
about how to work through each of them. We also presented draft objectives in a vision
and solicited for feedback. The second and third rounds included pop-up in-person info sessions
as well as online information sessions and surveys. In March 2023, we presented initial
directions for eight of those trail topics engaged the level of support and feedback for each one.
And in October 2023 we shared a sought feedback on a draft suitability analysis and recommendations
for each of those 12 trail network areas within the study area. Overall we had 1700 engagement touch
points through the project which were used to inform each of the subsequent steps.
So the main part of
Strategy is represented in the first four chapters and it's a relatively short read at only 14 pages.
In the next series of slides I'll just walk you through those documents or this document.
The first chapter provides a general overview of Wister's recreation trails.
It also discusses the complexity of the trail network because of the multiple land jurisdictions and multiple trail managers.
And it also points out how the RTS aligns with the Wister's vision
as per the official community plan and the climate action big moves strategy.
The first chapter also clarifies the strategy's geographic scope.
So included are Whistler's, municipal trails within Whistler's municipal boundaries plus
some areas just outside of that, which include the Whistler or sorry the Rainbow Sprote trails.
The Whistler Interpretive Forest is included as are the trails on Whistler Blackones commercial
recreational recreation area that are not fee-accessed, so outside of the bike park.
We clarified that the strategy includes both authorized and unauthorized public recreation
trails used by mountain bikers, trail runners, hikers, walkers, dog walkers.
The strategy also considers trail-related support amenities such as parking, staging, and
washrooms.
These are amenities that are critically important to the trail experience and represent
and cost to build and maintain,
and often are not thought about when planning trails.
Excluded from the strategy are, again,
the Wester Blackhomes bike park trails,
trails in the Garibald provincial park
and Wester Olympic park trails,
predominantly used in winter, trails managed
under a provincial commercial tenure,
and motorized used trails other than trials motorcycles
and the valley trail itself is being addressed
through a separate parks and valley trail strategy
project currently underway.
The second chapter details, what it is we're trying to achieve and where we want to go.
This destination, if you will, is defined by the strategy's objective and vision, both
of which were developed and refined based upon community input.
The four objectives here of community environment, tourism based economy and sense of place are
supported by the vision, which is on the left and in blue.
We won't read the entire vision there, but it centers around working towards a network
of trails that are sufficient, supported, and within limits that are carefully planned.
They're responsibly built, maintained, and managed.
And this aligns with the OCP's vision statement shown on the right-hand side.
The third chapter provides an overview and inventory of Whistler's over 400 kilometers of trails,
and considers who is responsible for each of those trails,
such as Worca, the Alpine Club of Canada,
Whistler Chapter, the RMOW, or Reccytes and Trails BC.
Who is the land manager based upon
where that trail is located,
and the typical sort of trail length, difficulty,
and type kind of inventory?
Not all of this information is in the draft currently,
but will be included in the final documents.
This section also discusses the benefits of trails
for recreation, health, and economy,
and no challenges due to increased trail use e-bikes on authorized trail construction, and more.
Chapter three also includes a short section about the financial reality we are currently.
And given the need to rebuild municipal financial reserve contributions to replace our aging infrastructure across the municipal spectrum,
the current direction is to limit building new amenities or increasing services without due consideration.
So, this makes the question, what does this mean for trails?
It means prioritizing reinvestment in existing municipal trails before developing new ones.
Of course, there are some exceptions to this in terms of replacing critical trail infrastructure.
So, recently, we've been able to replace bridges like on 21 mile and currently working on the
wedge creek comfortably numberage, and those have been funded by Resort Municipality Initiative
Funding, which is a provincial grant program based upon hotel stays.
We're currently refurbishing high demand trails like the work underway on Pinocchio's
perimeter in Los Lake, and then leveraging related in from initiatives such as workers
accessible mountain bike trail initiative on fire out in flashback in the Whister and
Turbo Forest.
Chapter 4 is the mediast of the chapters.
It dives into the trail topic areas and really is the main focus of the strategy.
And the first portion is about how we manage and operate existing trails and first of our
trail topics here are unauthorized trails.
Now, these are a problem for four reasons.
The Rolawatt Nation and Squamish Nation have clearly
articulated their objection to the ongoing construction
of unauthorized trails.
This has been spoken about during the development of the RTS
and has featured at the last two Mountain Bike Tourism
Association of BC Symposiums.
As a message to trail builders, you might think you're
building an awesome trail and just scratching it out
in the middle of nowhere, but this perspective is not
shared by those whose land you're working on. First Nations footprints and culturally significant
places are widespread and as a builder of unauthorized trails you risk serious legislative
penalties for disturbing archaeological sites whether they are mapped or not. First Nations
frustrations about unauthorized trail construction is risking decades of access advocacy by Worka
and undermining the reputation of the sport. Second reason unauthorized trails are a problem is they
and also damage sensitive ecosystems and habitats.
They can also sometimes trespass on private property,
which cause a lot of friction.
And they can also undermine the efforts
of long-term trail development and planning.
So the direction and the direct trail strategy
that we're proposing to go is to communicate these impacts
on legislative penalties as related to First Nations,
the environment, municipal property,
private property, long-term trail development planning,
supporting the reputation of support and financial support.
Work with trail builders to develop authorized trail corridors within which trail builders
can apply their visions and fine skills.
Enforce municipal bylaws and fines for unauthorized construction on municipal property like Parkhurst
and redirect municipal funded trail maintenance and operation budgets and grants to decommissioning
and re-vegetating unauthorized trails located on unseated lands
currently managed by the province.
Another trail topic is commercial event use.
Here we have more work to do,
including developing a policy, fee structure,
and review process for a commercial event use
of Worcester's trails in collaboration
with local trail interest groups.
This would align with and build upon work
as excellent work to date and seek to streamline
how this whole eco-trial process
With monitoring, restriction, and communication, the direction we propose is to expand use of
on-site information boards at high use staging areas and trailheads to reach those users who
may not be connected to other trail information channels to continue to work with the problems
to monitor grizzly bear recovery and activity, particularly in the spoken rainbow mountain areas.
And to continue to restrict e-bikes and dogs about the flank trail to mitigate environmental
impacts with respect to grizzly bears, otherwise life and sensitive habitat. And on that, we are
We are seeing an uptick in e-bike use on the Alpine trails, which is not permitted.
As a public service announcement, we ask that people please prioritize real and genuine environmental concerns ahead of their personal needs.
Another, sorry, here.
The next section of chapter four is about how we plan, develop, and build new trails.
So, with respect to trail access and staging, the direction we're going is to establish staging areas to support trails on popular network areas on Mount Sprode and Rainbow Mountain.
Encourage the use of underutilized parking locations and collaboration with private land and amenity owners. This might include the Creekside Underground parking structure, possibly school parking lots at non-school times.
and then we have more work to do, including assessing and prioritizing the next staging area to be constructed,
exploring paid parking options and implications on trail access and staging guidelines as developed as part of the
REC trail strategy. We also need to assess the Valid Trail Network to identify connection gaps to high use trails and trail areas in
order to increase the use of active transportation. We'd like to explore the feasibility of public shuttle service trail heads that
that are frequently accessed by private vehicles
and experiencing parking challenges such as Skywalk,
Mountsboro, and check out those lake trailheads.
There are many places in North America
that use shuttles as a means of managing parking,
tourism and use.
And we thought we should at least be exploring this.
How we plan a proven construct our trails
is a big topic and the direction we're proposing
is to prioritize reinvestment, as we've mentioned earlier.
To use new tools developed through the
Trial Strategy Project and appended to the report, including a trail review and approval
process flowcharts, one of which is on the right-hand side of the screen there.
Trail access and staging guidelines, network area suitability analysis and recommendations,
and most importantly, the environmentally responsible trail planning guidelines.
Each of those are in the appendices of the strategy.
We also seek to strengthen working relationships with a little lot nation and squalmish nation
to collaborate on all trail management and planning work and to align these with our OCP policies.
We also seek to account for long-term cost implications of main trails and the related
amenities during the planning and approval phase of new trails. Capital funding to build a new trail
is one thing, but the real cost is in the annual operation and maintenance of those.
We continue to improve sustainable trail designs that appeal to a wide range of abilities and skill
sets, including accessible mountain bike trails, continue to collaborate with reccytes
and trails BC on trail planning in and around Whistler and continue to encourage collaboration
between Whistler-Blockcomb and Worca, related to the public trails within WB's control
recreation area.
Another one of the tools I just spoke of is the Environmental and Responsible Trail Planning
Guidelines.
These have been developed so that planning new trails can be done with their clear environmental
lens.
So these guidelines act at the desktop level and they recommend mitigation strategies depending on the level of environmental sensitivity for a given location.
So moving forward proposed to promote, train and implement these new guidelines with RMOW staff and trail interest groups to maintain up-to-date spatial information including recent work on a priority habitat areas.
and we'll continue to avoid trail development within Wester's municipal watershed area and
in identified Grizzly Bear Habitants.
With respect to motorized trials riding, it's typically represented by a small local
user group in the direction we're proposing here is to continue to engage with this group
and explore the feasibility of authorizing existing use areas.
Of course, one risk of doing so is the potential creation of a dedicated and formalized trials
writing zone that puts it on the map and attracts users from elsewhere, generating additional costs
and management risks. So we have more work to do there. We also have more work to do with limits of
acceptable change. Here we propose to consider undertaking a study that monitors trail use impacts and
the changes that use represents over time and identifying mitigation measures.
Chapter five contains
It gains five appendices that support the strategy.
The first is the evolving terminology where we're using preferred terms instead of crown
lands, stakeholders and master plans.
The second is at the Environmental and Responsible Trail Planning Guidelines.
The third is trail review and approval process flow charts.
So in response to a lack of transparency about how trails are planned, we develop flow charts
and resource information for trails proposals on both municipal control lands, as well as
on seeded lands is currently managed by the provincial government and it's our expectation
that all people involved in trail planning will use these flowcharts.
We also developed some trail access and staging guidelines, so this is more about trailhead
parking, so it informs preferred locations, type of staging areas, and additional enhanced
and many of these required field gaps in the network.
And lastly, there's a cascade environmental, did a deep dive on analysis of 13 network
areas that make up the study area of Wistler's Trail ecosystem, each network area identifies current
situations, suitability analysis, and trail-focused recommendations. This is very informative for future
trail planning.
So in terms of next steps, well today we're here to committee the whole to reintroduce
the project and the public release of the final draft. Over the coming months we're anticipating
some feedback and we have a bit more work to do in terms of developing maps and other images in the documents.
So we're working on that.
There is the opportunity for feedback on the Missful Engage Whistler site.
We'll be finalizing the document and we anticipate being back later in the year for adoption of the final document.
With that concludes my presentation.
Happy to answer any questions and facilitate a discussion.
question. Thank you, Martin. Questions,
Arthur?
Thanks, Martin. I was very passionate about this. Perhaps I've asked this before, but
as a planner, if you could have a clean canvas and start over on this 416K plus trail
system, what would you do different? If I could go back in time as a planner, I would
come up with a comprehensive trail plan. I think there are some people who might
that watch this presentation, I think, oh God, here we go.
But I think there's a certain efficiency
that one can achieve that way,
and the challenge will be still allowing the creativity,
the soul, the character of our trails
to come through that process.
Thank you.
I saw that there's a stat that there is five hundred
and sixty thousand invested in trail maintenance
over how many years was that?
That's per year in 2024.
Yeah, okay.
So that's roughly $1,200 per kilometer, that's good enough.
Are we getting any counts utilization data on the trails?
Yes, we have a number of counters.
We have some more permanent ones on our valley trail system.
The ones on our recreation trails, we do move around, use them more for planning purposes
purposes for new trails, then also recording existing use levels.
So on our recreation trails, we have them the last number of years on SkyWalk Rainbow
Trail and Mount Sproat into the Mystic.
We move others around as need be for areas like Train Rack, Sea to Sky Trail and other municipal
trails.
Lastly, I'm just looking forward to that there, but I think I've seen a stat on the estimated
that ROI on our trail system annually?
Do we have that?
I don't have it annually, but kind of to the center
of the diagram there is a big number of $20 million.
Back in 2016, so almost 10 years ago,
a study was done to determine the economic impact
of biking from Whistler's non-bike park trails,
and that was the value that was assessed, was $20 million.
Presumably, that number is higher now.
I'll shut myself here.
If we catch a rope trail building, I'm going to add a little color to it, in a right
pair and zone, for example, what would be the process of dealing here?
So if it's on municipal property, saying parkour store, loss lake or something, then we can
apply the park use by law against that and also if there was a tree protection by law
and environmental protection by law, we would be able to apply the recourse through those
means. If it's not on municipal property, then it is more challenging for us. There are
no legislative or sorry by law applications, potentially there's legislative concerns or
opportunities there but that's where we're also proposing to redirect current funding that's
provided to trail groups to then be spent on closing or repairing areas. That's part of the
strategy. Go ahead. Thank you for your expertise and stewardship. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Kathy. Thanks very much. Thanks for all the work on this. It's been a long time coming.
Let me see. I'm going to start off with the marking system for trails. We've got green, blue,
black, double black. On the mountain, green means the easiest in the area. Is that the same
with mountain biking or is it more based on standards like grade and that sort of thing that
determine difficulty?
Yeah, that's a great question. It's one that's been evolving over the last number of years.
The provincial government through rec sites and trails BC is attempting to come up with
a more blanket standard of rating trail difficulty. And some of the challenges of finding, of
resolving that are that some areas are inherently more difficult than other areas. So, Whistler
is known to be a little bit more difficult. And some other areas that are more, say, in
the count loops area of rolling hills type thing. So the rating system has been traditionally
more relative to that unique geographic area. And we're waiting to see what requisites
and trails comes up with with their standard. They have tested that as a pilot in the last
two summers, but it is a big one to wrestle.
Thank you.
I think one of the first trails that the municipality was involved in was the West
Plank and in that case, that was a very steep trail and it's had a lot of erosion issues.
I'm trying to think when that was done, it's like 20 years ago or 25 quite a while ago.
So what with the new environmental, sorry, environmental, responsible trail planning
guidelines, are we going to start applying those guidelines to legacy, certain legacy
trails that we see here?
That certainly is one option.
We haven't given a consideration to doing that, but at a desktop level it could be applied
and would reveal certain things and we would need to understand what the implications of that analysis might be.
Right, so by desktop you're talking about looking at the maps, looking at the grades, looking at the cost per meter,
the potential wildlife habitat, the erosion.
It's more looking at the using the information on our geographic information system for
repairing areas and priority habitats, taking that information and then taking the trail
network and lying it over top and seeing where they intersect.
And then asking ourselves, all right, a trail like River Runs through it, a very popular trail
historically, and still well used, easily accessed.
best. Good portion of it is within a repair and zone. What do we want to do about that?
Right. Well, a lot of our new climbing trails go right up the side creeps.
Yeah. So the environmentally responsible trail planning guidelines that are in this identify
high, medium and low habitat sensitivities based upon the data that was available when that
was done and so for repairing areas they can be in the medium or low
priority and then there's mitigation strategies that are identified within
that so for instance if there's a creek corridor that a trail is needs to
cross to get to the other side the intent is to minimize the amount of footprint
that is within that repair in zone so that means that it goes straight across as
supposed to dilly dally around if possible.
It also means that structures that are within that riparian area are suitable for all trail
types.
So having a skinny...
Would going through an area of scunk cabbage in a wetland is not on. It would need to be a wider structure that keeps people on that trail and not affecting those sensitive soils and sensitive areas. That's the intent of the guidelines. If one wants to take it further and say that trail shouldn't be there at all, then that's another conversation that the community will need to have. Right, we're in a kind of a difficult situation in that. I mean, I got my first bike mountain bike.
I can 1984 and every trail was a rope trail in those days.
So that's kind of how it all started with the trials bikes, as you say.
So we're already adopting trails that were built on a rope basis,
which is kind of where we're going to today.
So are we, we're going to continue to invest in improving those so
So that we've got a broader range of skills that can be applied.
The intent from the municipal side of things we can't speak for
work, but the municipal side of things is to maintain and
rework our existing trails that the municipality is responsible for.
And then the funding that we provide to work through the fee for service program goes to maintaining and
repairing the trails that they are responsible for, the money that the Miss Polly provides
to work through fee-for-service is not for new trail construction.
And you spoke of updating the RMOW trail standards.
Are they compliant with provincial standards?
I think it was 2003 that they were last updated.
Yeah, they're pretty close.
The provincial trail standards used are standards as the basis initially, and there's been
some modifications from them. The overall intent is, I'd say it's probably 80-90% sufficient.
There's more that there's slightly different ways of constructing and doing trade,
or sort of building trails, as well as inclusions for accessible mountain biking and technical terrain
features, which have evolved a lot over the last 20 years. And so that's the remaining 10-20% of work
that really needs to be revisited.
As an aging mountain biker, I'm very interested
in seeing climbing trails continue to be accessible.
And one of the best trails I've ever written,
climbing trails in Cumberland, and actually the legacy trail
in Squam is just quite good.
I find some of our climbing trails even the new ones
like Scotia Nova, steep and tight, pretty difficult, and it was noted also in the RTS.
I spoke to one of the trail builders and he said it's because I guess it's easier, it's
shorter to build a steeper trail.
And so even it happened with the end of the mystic.
Things were going quite nicely, and then all of a sudden it started going up.
very, very steeply.
Will we be looking at that accessibility issue with our trails, with our climbing trails in particular?
I can't speak in great detail about it because right now our intent is to focus on
reinvestment in our existing trails like Pinocchio's furniture and the trails in Loss Lake,
which see over 35 to 40,000 users a year in there.
There are opportunities to reduce the grades on some trails.
And BORCA does a pretty good job of that when they have the opportunity to do so.
The municipality is working with BORCA on making some improvements
to the far out trail upstream from the McLaren crossing
and the Whistler Interpret of Forest as well as downstream.
So that can be an accessible mountain bike trail
and in the accessible mountain bike world what people are finding is that G
was this helps everyone it's not just for someone who is in a three or four
wheeled bike so as myself an aging mountain bike her as well I appreciate
those kinds of trails too yeah far out flashback has been a great addition and if I
can just make a comment on the two trails that you mentioned in other jurisdictions I've
written both of those and one of the good things that they have had to work there goes back
to the first question that Arthur asked me if you could do it all again, what would
you do?
And it's about having that comprehensive trail plan that sets that as a goal and a standard
at the first place.
And also in those two locations, the nature of the terrain is a bit more gentle than what
we typically have here in Whistler.
And different dirt.
Yes, and in the case of Cumberland, it also works through a lot of well-logged areas.
So there's a lot more freedom to align trails and perhaps here.
Right.
Thank you very much.
Mayor, go ahead.
I'm a firm believer that walkers are people too.
And I see that we recognize hiking as a core trail use.
we look for multi-use harmony and we're working hard to make that happen as far
as the development of new hiking assets. Is that something that is drawing less
attention in your view? I guess full stop is it getting less attention, full stop?
And if so, is that partly, as a result of the advocacy, is it that we're set up better to work with trail riders rather than hikers and what do you see for the future of hiking in our community?
Yeah, it's a great question.
And back in 2012, members of the Forest Wildland Advisory Committee of Council undertook a
great undertaking in the hiking task force and produced a wonderful document that looked
at a much broader geographic scope than what we did in the RTS, but what are those hiking
opportunities there?
They certainly are there, and the cost to build a hiking trail and to maintain a hiking
trail per kilometer is a lot less than a mountain bike trail. The where is just less.
And interestingly, this guy walked trail actually has more user numbers on it than the
inter domestic trail system, which is predominantly mountain bikers. So at this point in time in
Whistler's history, to use a reference that you had made a number of years ago with a lot
a lot of things were in the area where we need to have replacement and our trails need
attention.
And again, go back to the point of in our fiscal position.
The focus is on reinvesting and existing trails rather than building new.
And personally, I think, you know, I would rather have 100 kilometers of consistently maintained
trail, doesn't matter whether I'm walking, biking, or running, or with the dogs, than having
four hundred kilometers of trails that are inconsistently maintained.
That's just my personal opinion.
I agree.
Good answer, thanks.
Rob.
It's Martin.
I'll try to keep it high level, but when you talk about trails, I'm not getting to the dirt.
We know how to say that.
How do we get from, I appreciate the flow charts that you have here to with the trail approval
process?
But how do we get from strategy to comprehensive planning?
So for example, as an alternative to loss lay, which, as you said, 40,000 users a day on
the weekends quite congested, moving or creating that type of trail structure at cut your
virus, which is equidistant from the village.
How do we move from the strategy to execution of an idea like that, if it's pursued?
Yeah, I think the first thing is a bit of a tie change in terms of capital funding and operational funding.
You know, we are at a time where our reserves need refurbishment and we're also at a time of great inflation and uncertainty.
So again, I come back to reinvesting and existing.
When it comes time to develop in more trails to take some of those loads off of places, which inevitably will happen.
One could look at it as a stem discerned comprehensive trail plan or one could look at it as a localized trail plan, which might be the area that you identified, perhaps it's parsed, perhaps it's wister interpretive for us, there's certainly opportunities to do that and if anyone wants to start pre-planning that work, we have some tools for them that they can use to help make that process smoother, provide clear guidance and ultimately end up with better
or quality less impactful trails?
E-bikes in the Alpine, and I know you've explained it to me before, as part of the delegation
authority to the municipality, to the trail network, from the province, there's no e-bikes.
But as you said, we're all getting older, and it's, Lord of the squirrels is a big ride
for me, it takes me all day, and I know lots of people access via e-bikes.
Do you think that policy will change?
And what do you think would require that change?
We have to go back to the province to say, hey, can we allow e-bikes
It reflects the current reality of where the sport and trail use is?
Or how would that work?
Yeah, that is a good question.
We did have a meeting with the province, including the Grozivere Specialists
A year ago to talk about how things are going in the Alpine.
e-bikes was a conversation point that came up.
And at this point, things seem to be in a comfortable place.
We have very much taken a precautionary approach because we are aware that e-bikes improve access.
And we're concerned about a greater number of users in that environment.
And while there's potentially impacts to the wildlife and environment there,
There are also risks to people who may be on an e-bike who are traveling quickly up a hill,
more quickly than certainly I would go on my non-ebike and come around the corner and find the
grizzly. These are things that could happen, I don't want to be a doomsdayer, but it wouldn't look
well for the resort in that regard. So we need to manage it carefully and manage it over
a longer period of time. We can also think of it too is that some of the trails or a lot of the
trails that are above into the mystic and even into mystic itself are not great trails for passing
someone on and when you're on an e-bike going uphill you're obviously going much faster and it's
really annoying for the non e-bike user to constantly be on your left or passing and having to stop
and break their momentum. It's also annoying for the E-viker to have to pass those people.
It can be if numbers are high. So, again, we come back to the precautionary approach.
We'd all like to be able to access the Alpine. I remember hiking black tests when I was in my 20s
and had a full head of hair and that was easy to get to the top and I was up there two years ago.
There's no way I'm going up there and I don't have the ability to do that. We do age, we do get
and we have to self-limit or choose to self-limit ourselves as well and do the responsible thing.
What is the stigma on this theme? What is the current thinking from the province
or from the recreation generally about trails in the Alpine?
Like it seemed when we built into the Mystic and one of the squirrels,
I mean it is an amazing trail and it is incredible to be up there and it seemed like
that's where the growth in the industry was, but is that still the current thinking
Given that we've had so many interactions with wildlife in the last couple of years.
I don't know where the province is at, and I have to talk to contacts at rec sites to better understand that.
But typically there are not a lot of Alpine trails in British Columbia.
We are rather unique in that.
The other ones that come to mind are Frisbee Ridge and Rubble Stoke and the one in Rosland.
There are maybe some others, but I know Golden has a few, but yeah, I don't know where
the problem is.
Okay.
There's that big one up in the UConn, too, which is awesome.
Mountain Hero.
Yeah, that's great.
We can talk about Mountain Bike Mountain all day.
Obviously, right with lots of friends, we have a little group chat, and they're always on
me about all there's many more signs, what etiquette and right of way in Los Lake and on the Valley Trail and so my response is
well that's part of our job as citizens and locals say hey you know ascending writers of the right of way, whatever.
What is the current best practice when it comes to signage on trails like Los Lake or the Valley Trail or anywhere?
because I see the same issues happening and people point to, oh, they do this in West
Van and they do this in North Van, but it's the same, it's the same gong show when it's
busy.
So what is the, what is the best practice or current thinking on signage for a straight
etiquette generally?
Yeah, great, great question.
You know, really it's knowing before you go is the best etiquette and that puts a responsibility
on the users.
So for an area like Loss Lake, you know it's going to be busy at certain times.
So make choices to go elsewhere. That's hard to communicate to those who are having their first visit here, and there's a challenge with that.
It's like the sign that's over at the skate park that says, you know,
In the mornings, when this is less busy, type of thing. So there's that type of thing. There's also with signs. Often it's very easy to get into a situation where there's proliferation of signs and sign pollution. And it gets to the point where nobody is seeing or reading anything there. And certainly many people don't read signs and figure that perhaps things don't apply to them.
So I go back to the know before you go perspective and self-education.
Thanks, Mark.
Anyone have any follow-up questions?
Go ahead, Mayor, then Kathy.
We talk about the Valley Trail as a recreation trail.
Correct? Is that fair, first of all?
Valley Trail?
Yes.
And I'm wondering, does this document
And it's used for commuting, and I'm just wondering how you view that asset over the
next 25 years.
Do we see it ever transitioning in any way so that it can better be a commuter trail?
I think I misunderstood your question. There's a subtle nuance there. So the Valley Trail is first and foremost a recreation amenity.
It's not part of the recreation trail strategy. So the recreation trail strategy typically deals with single track mountain by hiking trails.
So I'll just make that distinction there. But as you ask about the Valley Trail and where it goes, you know, it is a prized asset.
And as it becomes busier, it will become a slower moving system and while it can be used
for active transportation, I certainly see yourself walking there as you see me riding
by, that it can be done so very well if it's used in a responsible way and the key is that
responsibility and it goes back to the etiquette science that Ralph was talking about for potentially
to launch late or something like that.
There is an opportunity to look at, I think,
sorry, part of the challenge for cycle commuting
in this community is your choices
are really the valid trail or the highway
and they're a complete and opposite spectrum
in terms of the quality of the experience
that there really isn't anything in between.
But an idea to have a hybrid system
that in places uses a bit of valid trail,
In places use a bit of municipal road, in places use the highway and focusing on that
as something as a bike route from one end of town to the other is an interesting concept
that potentially has legs and I think that if we can develop that and shift people's
thinking to, you know, use the municipal roads where you can, use the highway with some
additional supports where you can and if you're on the valley trail, watch out for the
seniors around the corner, or the guy fishing, or the guy an electric skateboard pulling,
or an electric skateboard pulling its paddleboard along, or the family of people who are completely
on the wrong side of the trail, and the kids are learning to ride the bike, they're everywhere.
Enjoy the view.
And so, that great answer, to me, the Valley Trail, yes, not a part of the RTS, but it does
seem like it is almost in some ways the backbone for TRTS is how you get around, it's how you
access our recreational trails and as you say we see it as a recreational amenity. I like that
idea that's a really interesting concept about you know kind of reimagining how we use existing
roads and sections of trail. That's exciting to think about, but it seems like it's a
little huge project over that will take some time to really serialize. Thank you for
the work.
Cathy, then Jesse, then Ralph.
Thanks very much. I want to talk about funding
because I think a lot of people don't understand where the money comes from. So in the case
of work with their fee for service that comes from the MRDT, which is the hotel
tax, correct? That's correct. I believe there's also some local taxpayer funds
that are in there as well. Okay. I think but the majority of it is the MRDT. I believe so.
And the RMOW funding for the trails that they build, that is tax dollars. That's correct.
Not RMI or anything like that.
For trail maintenance, it is local tax dollars.
Okay.
The construction of the Alpine Network was Resort Ms. Palli initiative funding.
So that's the grant program from the province, which is tied to a hotel stays.
And then the replacement of some critical infrastructure at the 21 mile bridge and the wedge bridge,
comfortably numb bridge that's currently underway, that is also RMI funded.
I hope that what I like is people understanding how fortunate we are to have the funding come from basically outside the community to support something that we all use.
The other one I want to talk about well also when it comes to funding is the Alpine Club of Canada was the group that built the Skywalk Trail.
that's correct. And then they also have Kevin's trail that does a lap so that you can do kind
of a lollipop. Have they received any funding for that? My recollection is there was RMI funding
available for that. Made available for that. And ongoing for maintenance, do they receive any money?
I do not believe they have applied for a fee for service.
The Miss Pally I believe does not contribute to maintenance staffing on that.
Okay.
And of course that network hooks into the trials riders on rainbows and because I've seen
them when I've gone up there.
The last question is on a commercial and event use.
We have seen events run during extreme weather events, and we also see a lot of wear and
tear on our trails when large events are held on the trails.
Would there be any room for a policy within the strategy on, leave it as you found it for
events and commercial use?
Yeah, I'll come back to that question in a second.
I just want to go back to the funding piece for a moment.
I also like to recognize that it's in the infographic in the center there.
You know, the over 1700 hours, volunteer hours that the work and the Alpine Club of Canada
will put in to maintain their trails.
You know, there isn't a dollar value on that, but if one added it up, it would be a lead to a dollar value
significantly greater than the $560,000 indicated they're invested in trail maintenance in 2024.
On your commercial operator wear and tear question,
Warca has an easy to understand policy for commercial and event use of their trails.
We think there's an opportunity to work with that and develop a policy that can potentially
generate a modest revenue stream to help pay for trail maintenance and repair. I can't
speak to the specifics of any particular event and where that it creates and then how that
is reconciled with, say, work or another group.
It isn't always worker.
And speaking as someone that dealt with behavior on the mountain, the two words that I found
the most useful were common sense and courtesy.
So, thank you.
Jessie, go ahead.
Thanks for all your work on this.
I'm looking at the trail usage.
I use some of these trails and I don't see a bouncer outside with a clicker.
So how do you get these stats of how many people use these trails?
We hide them. They're automatic trail counters that are based on a beam of light and every time the beam is broken it records one count.
Oh, I don't know that. That's really cool.
Sometimes they go sideways or they get vandalized or go missing.
Yeah, cool.
And then unauthorized trails. I don't mountain bike because I'd probably die.
So I walk some of them and how do you know that a trail is an authorized trail?
Well, and that statistic there, 81% of trails are sanctioned.
This is slightly different description.
It's a bit misleading and that many, while I put it this way,
there's few trails that are ambister that are fully authorized.
So things like comfortably numb, section 102 into the mystic
and the Alpine trails, the trails on Rainbow,
those are fully authorized trails.
Many of the other trails have evolved for decades,
mentioned about trails riding as it all started.
Those are there.
It's really hard to determine whether a trail
is authorized or not.
There will be some maps or guidance in this document
when it comes back in its final form that you can look at.
But perhaps what is more important is understanding who's land it's on and that it is on the First Nations land.
And then what is also very important to know is who is maintaining that trail, who has that responsibility.
And those responsibilities are pretty clear through using trail forks, the online trail app.
And then again, that'll be noted in the final document.
Okay, yeah, I just know, I noticed one trail that I walk on regularly that someone's been
maintaining it, but it's on private property, so I'm just, I don't understand it.
If someone wanted to report that, how would they do so?
Well, it's a matter of letting some government agency know whether that's the municipality
or recites and trails would be sea or, and identifying where it is and going from there.
Great. Thank you so much. Ralph, I have a question. Okay. Any other questions? Would you
like to make a comment, Arthur? Go ahead.
Martin, really appreciate the work and the flashback
on my time on W.V. when whistle or black will emerge. We rated all the trails from most
popular to least and there was an environmental, obviously an assessment as well. And we actually
decommissioned the lowest scores and we put most of our money into the premier
trails in fact in some cases widening them and it worked extremely well so
I certainly support I think it's a similar approach here where it's
optimized what you have before you consider building more I think that's
very sound. Secondly I'll finish with a scary
management just did an interview myself and the question was where do mountain
on resorts and theft, invest into the future
for season experiences, summer experiences, et cetera.
And I started running some ROIs
and all the different infrastructure
that we looked at in summer and the trails.
If they're built well to the extent
where people want to come back and do them every year,
the ROI is off the charts.
And nothing else touches it with respect to investment.
We had payback between one to two years
on our seventh heaven trails for example. So these trails are really, they are part, a deep
part of the economic engine to this resource. So again thank you for your, your stewardship
and all your knowledge on this.
Okay, thank you.
Often when I ride with friends and guests alike, they all say this is the
best tax dollars we spend. So then I tell them how much we give to work on, how much
just been here and there and which are work of trails and which ones we maintain.
So yeah, it really is one of the most amazing things about our community, on the 1700 hours
and think of all the trails that got built by people just, it blows my mind when I travel
around British Columbia or anywhere and I think, wow, who built these trails, like how did
you get way out here to build these?
So yeah, I think it's a real testament to the community and the municipalities involvement
in fostering that and creating that culture.
So, thanks to everyone.
Yeah, I want to just, the words I hate the most in local government.
I just want to repeat what Councillor Forsyth said.
Because I think it's just so true, like Alpine Club of Canada,
work, all of these community groups that put in so much time.
I'm really grateful that our organization is taking them very seriously,
seeing their value and doing our very best to work with them because I think it makes
us better and it makes them better. I think this work has helped those organizations
be better than they are and it's helped us be better than we are. So, thanks for your
work. I know it's not easy.
Kathy?
Oh, it's not the same thing. No, I'm going to say, first of all, that I think we can hold
have up high with the quality of trails we have and the variety of trails we have and
I see people working on provincial park trails because they're not up for the standard
of our trails and they're putting in their own sweat equity into those trails and I think
it is that leakage of the pride in where we are and what we have that I don't know how
while the province feels about it.
So, we have a really great trail system here, including what's on WB, the out-to-decker lake, absolutely stunning, and all the way up to Skywalk. So, I think
are there final words? I'd be remiss not to acknowledge that the value that these trail experiences have for physical health, mental health, and for a lot of people of spiritual connectedness to nature. I wanted to make sure we didn't miss that. Thank you.
Thank you. It's in the RTS as well. It's noted.
Okay. Thank you very much. And thank you for your presentation and for the ongoing work here. This is the core of what we are.
So probably some of the most important work will here.
With that, I'll ask that someone please make a motion that the Committee of the Whole report the recommendations to council at the July 8th meeting.
meeting, regular meeting, and terminate this committee the whole meeting.
Chair Ford, there is also a recommendation from staff under agenda item 6.1 regarding
the regional trail strategy if you wish to.
Okay, I was just following the.
Okay, can we just, yeah,
do you want to repeat that?
So the staff recommended motion would be that the committee, the whole recommended council,
that the Recreation Trail Strategy be presented to Council for endorsement in a form substantially
similar to the Regional Trail Strategy attached as Appendix A to Committee of the Whole Report
number W25-009. Thank you.
Moved by Jesse, seconded by Jack. Any comments? All in favor? Any opposed?
Motion carries. And then a motion to terminate this community of the whole? Moved by Kathy,
at the second of my Jack, all in favor any opposed motion carries.
See you at 530.