[0:19] I would like you would like to move the
approval of the agenda.
[0:27] We have a second
[0:31] one amendment and that is that the
minutes of the special meeting of
[0:36] February 4th be um forwarded to next
week's meeting so that they're recorded
[0:42] in our regular meeting and not in the
special meeting. Uh just makes uh filing
[0:48] a little bit easier.
Okay. Um
[0:55] all those in favor of the um agenda with
the approval sorry um the number five B.
[1:04] Okay. Um Adley should it be business
arising or just this new business
[1:12] and I believe the Bon policy thing
should go to the regular meeting.
[1:18] Is that here next week? Yes.
>> Yeah. To provide updates on what
[1:24] transpired with the committee and I
wouldn't say that they need to be
[1:28] because we mentioned policy. So I
wouldn't have
[1:38] just that believe that's what we said in
the meeting. I don't just work here.
[1:47] on the other.
[1:52] » Yeah.
[1:58] » We just leave it like that. Everybody
good with that? We keep the law policy
[2:01] update there.
>> Okay. All those in favor of the agenda
[2:07] with the amendment seeing say I can say
motion carate.
[2:15] uh any disclosures of conflict of
interest.
[2:20] Uh we will move into 5A the 2024 28 CCB
the Canada community building funds
[2:28] plan. So what we'll do for this is have
a presentation by one
[2:43] that is passage that was sent out
tonight
[2:59] wasn't the fire to my bones in there.
>> Yes.
[3:03] » Okay.
>> Almost 3/4 just over halfway down.
[3:12] » But I seem to remember the two things
being separate from our email.
[3:19] » Yeah. One one was the agenda again and
one the documents of the meeting. But
[3:25] no, what I'm saying is the um the um
what the two fire chiefs had put in
[3:34] Yeah.
>> was in the documents on our email. Yeah.
[3:37] They're not hearing. We don't have We
don't have people
[3:46] that
[3:58] share it. But we're just going to do it
the other way.
[4:12] that works, right?
>> So, which one did you want to have?
[4:15] That's why we're speaking for
[4:32] » I just want to thank everybody for
having me here tonight. Let me uh two
[4:36] things. One, I just want to give you
just a brief recap of how we got here
[4:40] and and why we're, you know, we're
thinking of purchase a new truck.
[4:44] um and kind of what we have currently
and then of course the specs and
[4:50] same time framing center on the new fire
truck. Um so council and mayor will
[4:56] remember that when we back in September
of 2024 we had a uh unfortunately a
[5:02] total engine failure in our rescue
truck. So we were responding to a
[5:05] medical call uh the motor truck. Um at
the time we looked at different options.
[5:11] Uh there's three options if you'll
remember. One was not a great option,
[5:15] but it was still an option was to repair
the existing truck. Um we looked into
[5:21] it, but unfortunately between putting a
motor in that truck and with it already
[5:24] being refurbished once in the past, it
just really wasn't a viable option
[5:29] because you were going to have to put
way too much into it for what it's
[5:31] worth. So that left two options. one
being a complete new rescue truck which
[5:36] again was going to be best part of half
a million dollars even worse now with
[5:40] today's news of tariffs. Yay.
>> Yeah. And uh and then of course we need
[5:46] a pumper replacement 2030. So what we
came up with at the time was the idea of
[5:51] if we can go a little early on the
purchase of the pumper truck which is
[5:55] due in 2030 but in turn save from having
to buy a totally separate rescue truck.
[6:00] Um, and then that way avoids the
taxpayers burden of having to pay for
[6:05] two fire trucks within a three-year
period. Um, which if that was the case,
[6:10] you'd be looking at probably best part
of 1.6 to 1.7 million if you're going to
[6:15] do true backtoback. Whereas this version
here in theory would save the taxpayers
[6:19] of at least probably 5 to $600,000 in
the long run. So,
[6:25] um, so with that being said, right now
we're down one truck completely. So
[6:29] we're down to four. The way it works now
is that we've kind of retrofitted one of
[6:34] our pumper trucks, which is typically
used for fighting fire into a makeshift
[6:38] rescue truck. And so it's already
happened a few times where we've been
[6:42] out on calls when something else will
come in or in one really remote area of
[6:46] our coverage area where it's a little
nerve-wracking having, you know, all our
[6:51] water in one place or all our tools in
one place, rescue tools, and not having
[6:55] uh anything on the other end of town.
So, um, the idea would be to purchase
[7:00] this new pumper tanker truck and then
when it arrives, refurbish our current
[7:06] 2018 pumper into a rescue popper. So, it
would have the option of being a heavy
[7:11] duty rescue with all the rescue tools,
jaws of life, uh, medical equipment,
[7:15] etc., and the ability to fight fire as
well.
[7:20] Uh, so we did reach out to three mark
suppliers.
[7:26] uh Maxi Metal of Quebec, which we
already have one of their trucks now.
[7:30] Currently, we reached out to Metalf Fab
in New Brunswick and we reached out to
[7:34] Ford Gary in uh Calgary, Alberta. Um
everybody makes nice fire trucks and
[7:41] there's lots of different companies out
there, but we already have a pumper with
[7:44] them and they're able to build exactly
what we want and what we need. And we
[7:50] know that it's a good truck because it's
tried and tested and we've had really
[7:53] good luck with it. So that's why we we
decided to spec out the truck to Maxi
[7:58] Metal Standards.
And so they're based in St. George,
[8:02] Quebec. This new truck would be a 2020
freight liner, uh M2106 pumper tanker.
[8:08] All M2106 means is it's just the type of
chassis that it is. So uh it would be a
[8:12] crew cab chassis, four door seating for
five firefighters.
[8:17] It would hold 1700 gallons of water,
which the largest truck we have
[8:20] currently is,200 gallons of water. you'd
have 500 more gallons of water capacity.
[8:25] Uh the pump rating would be 1500 gallons
per minute, which is 450 more than our
[8:30] current truck. Um again, we're looking
at this truck to replace a truck now,
[8:35] but we're not just looking at today.
We're looking at next year, 10 years, 20
[8:39] years from now. So, I would hope that by
river 20 years from now is booming and
[8:44] we have new infrastructure and we have
possibly new apartments or housing and
[8:49] stuff. So hopefully
>> hopefully that's what everyone wants to
[8:52] see happen.
>> And so that being said, that's where the
[8:55] extra water capacity and pump and stuff
comes into play and looking towards the
[9:00] future. And then hydraulic ladder
quarter tank storage rack. Um the less
[9:05] you have to climb the top of a truck,
the better for safety reasons,
[9:09] especially in winter in this weather
with ice and and dark at night. If you
[9:13] don't have to get on top of the truck or
the small little steps, preferably you
[9:17] don't. And so now a lot of the newer
trucks have safety at the forefront
[9:21] which hydraulic ladders and racks all
come down with the push of a button. So
[9:24] everything's accessible from from the
bottom. Uh SCVA seating which is the air
[9:29] packs that we use the the breathing
apparatus for four firefighters in the
[9:34] cab.
[9:37] So this is a sample truck of what we're
looking at. So it's quite similar to
[9:40] what we have currently. There's not a
huge amount of difference. There are a
[9:43] few though. Um the truck's a few feet
longer, has a bigger tank capacity. Um
[9:48] has extended front bumper with a hose in
the front bumper for trash fires, car
[9:52] fires, etc. Um the rear of the truck, it
has a dump valve that swivels one way or
[9:57] the other. So when we go to a fire, we
have to haul loads of water
[10:00] repetitively. What we do is we set up a
portable tank on the ground and we'll
[10:05] dump water. So this has the option to
dump from either side of the truck or
[10:09] from the rear, which we don't have that
option now.
[10:12] Uh the racks, you can see they're all
tucked up neatly on the side, but when
[10:15] they push of a button, everything comes
down on both sides of the truck for
[10:18] access to the ladders, tank, hose, etc.
Um, so all in all, it's like I said,
[10:25] it's quite similar to what we have. It's
just newer version.
[10:28] Give us everything now and for the
future as well.
[10:34] » Okay, so timeline and pricing. So, we
recently had a meeting with Safety
[10:38] Source, who Safety Source is the rep for
Atlantic Canada for Maxi Metal. Um, the
[10:46] current truck we're looking to purchase
has actually already been started. Uh,
[10:50] and it's approximately at the halfway
point of being built right now with a
[10:53] price tag of $850,000.
The truck itself is right around
[10:58] $785,000.
[11:02] The $850,000
price tag is the truck comes fully
[11:06] equipped. So meaning hose, nozzles,
ladders, bora tank, everything that you
[11:11] would need, it comes fully equipped. We
made that I wouldn't say in mistake, but
[11:15] we we did that in the last truck we
ordered 2018 where we got it bare ball.
[11:20] We didn't get a single thing on it and
we regretted it after the fact. Because
[11:24] if you can include that amount into the
overall price tag at the beginning and
[11:29] divide it throughout the payments of the
truck versus buying it all up front from
[11:32] your operating budget, it it makes more
sense to do it that way. So we ended up
[11:36] having to scramble and just take stuff
from three other trucks to make one
[11:40] truck work the last time. So So again,
at 850,000, that's their quote. That's
[11:46] their estimate. Um they're hoping to be
under that, but that would be at the
[11:49] high end. That would be fully equipped
filbert to our building.
[11:54] And this truck is what's considered a
stop program truck. So postcoid, this
[11:58] program was developed to help fast drive
a truck in a much shorter time frame
[12:01] than a typical custom build. Um if
approved by council now, this truck
[12:06] would be completed and delivered to
Rexton the last week of October of 2025.
[12:10] So eight months from now, seven months
now because I was done a month ago.
[12:16] Um the stop truck program takes a try
and test the truck and includes all the
[12:20] most common options are looking for with
safety at the forefront. So again what
[12:24] they did after co is they realized that
things are hard to get things hard to
[12:27] keep in stock hard to get ahead of and
the truck was taking anywhere from what
[12:32] used to take a year was getting into two
years three years plus and so what's
[12:37] happening now is that they realized
that. So Maxi Metal has actually
[12:40] purchased over a hundred chassis from
Freightlininer International and
[12:44] different companies. They all have them
brought in in stock in different
[12:47] configurations and they're building
these trucks in a stock truck program.
[12:51] So when fire departments are in a need
for a truck, they basically have the
[12:55] bare bones are started, but then from
that point you customize it to the way
[12:58] you want it with your own options,
colors, lettering, etc., etc.
[13:07] And so reasons we believe council should
act now on this. So there's more than
[13:11] one reason but uh we fully understand
there's many other projects capital
[13:15] assets that five rivers has to take into
consideration. However, our current
[13:19] rescue truck is still completely under
commission even though we converted our
[13:22] pumper uh which although is working
right now is not ideal. We're taking
[13:26] trucks out of town that normally
wouldn't go out of town all the time and
[13:29] we're leaving basically nothing in town
if something else comes in.
[13:34] with the looming threat of terrace
places going up from here on out. It's
[13:38] no longer looming anymore. When uh when
I did this point was a few weeks ago,
[13:42] it's not looming anymore. It's here.
>> And so we have been told by the
[13:46] manufacturer that so what they've done
is that even though we haven't made a
[13:50] decision yet, they have actually this
truck, it's not spoken for yet, but it's
[13:55] also not being
I I wouldn't say spec or sold in another
[13:59] department. Not that they're holding
this, but they're holding pricing for a
[14:04] short period of time until it gives us
time to work out the details on our end.
[14:07] Hopefully,
uh, and that being said, that would
[14:11] eliminate having to worry about tariffs
going into effect on the equipment side
[14:14] of things, which could quickly stop
obviously, but as of right now, it's
[14:18] everything's okay. The US EPA or the
United States Environmental Protection
[14:23] Agency has recently issued their updated
emissions regulations for 2027 to 2020
[14:28] 2032. These new emission standards will
increase the price of this truck by a
[14:32] minimum of $100,000 on the lower side,
more than likely even more.
[14:41] » So you're saying it's going to be over
100,000 more.
[14:45] » I'm going to get to this in the next
slide. I'm going to explain what I mean
[14:48] by that. So the US eviction standards.
So, if this currently available stock
[14:53] program pump or tanker is not purchased,
a new truck can still be ordered, of
[14:57] course, but with a minimum weight time,
they're telling us roughly 28 months.
[15:01] Uh, that's on the low end. It could be
up to 36 months. This would put the new
[15:05] truck into the time frame of the new
regulations beginning in 2027.
[15:09] New diesel engines under these
restrictions will have to operate on a
[15:12] DPF or diesel particulate filter system
as soon as the key is turned to the on
[15:16] position, even if the truck is not
running.
[15:19] new diesel engines. So, diesel engines
in our trucks now are in uh even 3/4
[15:24] tons or one ton trucks. They all have um
they use what's called diesel exhaust
[15:28] fluid and it collects tailpipe emissions
from the engine. So, what this means
[15:33] that as soon as the key is turned on,
death fluid or diesel exhaust fluid will
[15:36] be burnt continuously until the truck is
shut off.
[15:40] Currently, when you have a diesel
engine, now what happens is when the
[15:43] truck is running, you're not burning
this diesel exhaust fluid right away.
[15:47] The temperature has to reach a certain
temperature and then it starts to burn
[15:50] this exhaust fluid which contains the
emissions that come out of the tailpipe
[15:54] and in theory eliminates emissions that
are put in the environment. What's going
[15:59] to happen though with these new systems
is that like it explains when you turn
[16:03] the key to the accessory position, not
even on, the motor is going to start
[16:07] burning diesel exhaust fluid right away.
And so what's going to happen is and
[16:11] people are really starting to panic
about this is that they don't even know
[16:16] there's not even so I'm going to get to
that next year. There's currently no
[16:19] engine manufacturer in North America
that can even produce an engine of this
[16:22] technicality yet. It doesn't exist yet
which again means that the cost of this
[16:27] new truck could easily exceed a million
dollars.
[16:30] And so that's kind of the goal how I'm
getting behind this now versus just
[16:34] waiting because if these intermissions
are effect and you're waiting 36 months
[16:37] for a truck, you're going to have no
choice but to fall under these
[16:41] standards. And not to mention the
problems that could come with these
[16:45] standards because they don't even know
yet how it's going to go for maintenance
[16:48] and for uh issues with these motors
because everything that's going to be
[16:53] coming out is going to be brand new. So
all the parts are going to be going into
[16:56] new builds versus having parts available
for breakdowns etc.
[17:05] » I the wrong way then
[17:10] » so Warren
>> you said the stock truck they even have
[17:14] the chassis there so we won't get stuck
with the tariffs on the chassis. So they
[17:19] have over a hundred chassis in stock
right now
[17:22] » cuz the chassis alone is quite
expensive.
[17:24] » Extremely expensive. The way it's worked
in the past for our last truck, what had
[17:28] to happen is you had to pay for the
chassis up front in full.
[17:31] » Yeah.
>> Then you pay for the remainder of the
[17:33] truck on your livery. The way it works
now, they have it in stock is you don't
[17:36] pay anything until So you don't pay
anything up front
[17:39] » for the chassis since they have them in
stock. But he sent me a picture the
[17:43] other day of their yard in St. George,
Quebec, and it's as far as the eye can
[17:47] see. is just chassis. But that's why
they're doing this is to get ahead of
[17:51] this smart mess.
>> And so the last thing um I'll read I'll
[17:58] just read it briefly. This is an article
uh that was just published. It's
[18:01] published in 2023, but it's been most
recently updated here just a few weeks
[18:06] ago. And it's kind of explaining what's
going to happen with these new regul
[18:10] regulations. And you see the title and
the chaos that may ensue. And so it's it
[18:15] reads, "Oh man, here we go again into
the nightmare of emission regulations,
[18:18] which now make earlier US EPA mandates
seem mild in comparison. If you think
[18:23] trucks are expensive now, which they
certainly are, just wait until 2027 when
[18:27] the raft of very stringent new
regulations take effect in the US and in
[18:31] Canada too because we traditionally
follow the American mandates. If only
[18:34] because Indian makers engine makers
can't afford to satisfy two different
[18:38] mandates.
[18:41] Your diesel intro alone will cost you an
extra$25 to $30,000 US and maintenance
[18:46] costs, who knows? If you're an owner
operator or small fleet, that may well
[18:50] just be the moment you decide to pack it
in. If all small business truckers can't
[18:55] afford new compliant trucks, they're
going to stay with older, less efficient
[18:58] trucks or leave the industry entirely.
Once again, EPA is largely ignore these
[19:03] warnings and concerns raised by truckers
in this latest rule. But even the big
[19:07] boys will suffer. At the very least will
there will be a mad scramble to buy
[19:10] trucks before these new rules kick in
just as there was 15 years ago prior to
[19:13] 2007 rules and again in 2010.
This next pre-by will be even more
[19:19] widespread and disruptive and just about
everybody I guess will plan to keep
[19:23] their trucks longer. Used truck prices
will skyrock
[19:27] the EPA published what is called the
strongest ever national clean air
[19:30] standards to cut smoke and soot forming
emissions from heavy duty trucks
[19:34] beginning with the model year 2027.
The main target is oxides of nitrogen
[19:40] and medium heavy duty on highway engines
as well as particulate matter and carbon
[19:44] dioxide. One not so small point is that
anxic sensors aren't presently perfectly
[19:49] reliable and it's agreed by critics that
they won't be able to handle the new
[19:52] demands
if they're even available in sufficient
[19:56] quantities.
All in above is bad enough, but it gets
[19:59] worse because of the California Air
Resources Board of Car has even more
[20:03] stringent set of standards on the books.
So-called ACT rule to regulate
[20:06] emissions. See a complicated road ahead?
You betcha. Because the EPA and CAR
[20:10] approaches are not fully compatible.
Californians with absolutely no proof
[20:14] that these reductions can be done an
unrealistically short time frame for
[20:18] manufacturers to comply about half of
what the EPA has proposed. Truck and
[20:23] Engine Manufacturers Association says
several heavy duty on highway truck and
[20:27] engine producers could actually exit
California market altogether because of
[20:31] the cost associated with these
provisions. Trouble is Washington,
[20:34] Oregon, New Jersey, New York,
Massachusetts have all adopted these
[20:37] rules with Boston follow.
So I know it's a lot but in theory
[20:42] what's happening is this is coming
whether we like it or not. there's
[20:47] nothing you can do about it. But at the
same time, you know, if the trucks are
[20:52] available and you know, it's what we
want, it's what we need and it's there
[20:55] now, we can avoid terrorists, we can
avoid all these regulations, then I
[21:00] guess that's our plus. The biggest thing
to remember again is that we are down a
[21:04] truck and something something needs to
be replaced.
[21:07] » And you know this company,
>> we already have a truck from them
[21:10] already because this
>> couldn't be happier. I believe at the
[21:15] September meeting when you guys made
your presentation, it was unanimous.
[21:19] Yes.
>> That they go with the option purchasing
[21:22] the new truck.
>> So, if you can get it now, save the
[21:26] tariffs and all of that garbage.
>> Do I need to make a motion?
[21:30] » No,
>> I don't think we made motion yet.
[21:33] » I'm going to make a motion.
>> I have a question. Uh, yeah, I have a
[21:37] question in regards to this and your
specs and a quote. Has anybody sourced
[21:43] with canoe?
>> You have to get your chassis from the
[21:46] US. What he's saying is it's already
here and we're not going to pay the
[21:51] tariff on it.
>> They've got a quote from a company on
[21:53] their own as a recent fire department.
Has anybody gone through canoe? Three
[21:58] other communities are getting fire
trucks all through canoe.
[22:02] » Oh, sorry.
>> Yeah. Why are we not going through
[22:05] canoe?
>> That's a company. I was going to say
[22:07] could just
>> women
[22:09] of municipal um municipalities of New
Brunswick and they it's like an
[22:14] insurance company or whatever they they
source um for all of the municipalities
[22:18] and they're called canoe.
>> Okay.
[22:19] » And so Kelly saying that um fire engines
I didn't realize
[22:25] » all big equipment, heavy duty equipment.
and you give them the specs of what it
[22:28] is you want and who your perhaps choice
is,
[22:33] » but have them go back to the table and
deal for you
[22:36] » because Canoe could possibly get you
something from that metal cheaper.
[22:41] » A lot cheaper.
>> Exact same thing you're ordering.
[22:44] » They have buying power, but you don't.
>> My my only question to that is
[22:50] » what's that going to do for the time
>> frame? Time frame.
[22:53] » You'd have to ask them.
>> Yeah. an icy wet warranty.
[22:57] » No, it's
something they've already gone through.
[23:01] So,
>> as far as red tape goes,
[23:03] » we brought this last meeting. I mean,
>> I'm constantly burning up.
[23:08] » Yeah, you are. Um, but I know they trust
Maxi Metal because they got a truck from
[23:12] there before, but and as I believe we
agreed to in that meeting, I asked which
[23:18] is which solution best suits the fire
department purchasing the new vehicle? I
[23:24] thought we'd agreed then.
>> I thought it was consensus on that
[23:29] particular drum.
>> Yeah. But I don't think we took the
[23:31] motion.
>> Yeah.
[23:32] » No,
>> I asked them about canoe and to go back
[23:36] and get a quote because I wouldn't do
anything without hearing about
[23:41] » so I can tell you there was no motion.
>> Well, I did that one with them.
[23:46] » Yeah.
maximum
[23:49] » I I'm unfamiliar with with the
purchasing channel the canoe provides
[23:54] there's two elements one is time
sensitive to with we can look in the
[23:58] canoe when I say it's time sensitive and
say that quickly I think what Warren is
[24:03] saying is that we're now whatever was
done or not done in the past you're now
[24:07] down to a handful of weeks probably
before you can lock this in it goes for
[24:11] all other agencies to explain whether
canoe is operating presumably as a
[24:15] middleman because canoe sells a full and
broad range of services, fire trucks,
[24:20] everything from like chairs and tables,
computers and those things.
[24:24] » Whether they ultimately would provide
some advantage, I wouldn't. The
[24:26] particulars of the three you cited, I'm
unfamiliar with. So, it could be that
[24:31] they would have some play in here. Uh I
did do procurement for a telecom company
[24:35] for a long time for years. Um it's to be
determined whether they would actually
[24:41] provide some sort of discount those uh
or whether they'd facilitate this trade.
[24:45] Ultimately, they don't manufacture
trucks, the ones that the one that he's
[24:49] outside the manufacturer. So, um they
have buying power, but we're buying a
[24:54] one off and we're small town probably
wouldn't would buy one every four or
[24:58] five years. So, that's all to say that
they may or may not provide any
[25:02] advantage in here. The challenge is
whether getting them involved in this
[25:06] stage would become an obstruction or
delay the process in a way in which we
[25:10] lose an opportunity to buy what does
seem to be a a good deal. But I mean
[25:14] that said we can
>> we can see the other thing is that the
[25:18] town like we' also looked at Canon
Heartland but we didn't sign up with not
[25:22] we just didn't get to the point of
looking we we're aware that others if
[25:26] you look at ambian or there's a lot of
pain or random using for certain things
[25:31] and um the challenge is that's probably
the longer term play to establish
[25:36] relationship with community that not
just for this room or other things. So
[25:40] yeah, it's something we can take back
and look at, but uh I yeah, its
[25:45] applicability here is questionable.
>> Rob, could you make a phone call to
[25:50] Canoe
on it week or 10 days, see if they can
[25:56] do anything with this and at the end of
that tell Warren or you call Maxi Medal
[26:03] and say
>> because the other communities in New
[26:06] Brunswick are only getting a truck, too.
So they're still going through canoe.
[26:11] » It can't hurt to make a phone call, can
it? And if it's going to save us money
[26:15] but get you what you want.
>> Yeah.
[26:18] » It's a win-win.
>> One thing I will mention as well is that
[26:20] Maximal So we there's three companies we
did reach out to.
[26:25] Unfortunately, Maximal is the only
company that does a stop program. So the
[26:30] other two were basically I wouldn't say
they're out of the picture, but in my
[26:33] opinion, we might as well say they're
out of the picture for that reason is
[26:36] that yeah, you could order through
another company, but
[26:38] » because the chassis is expensive.
>> Chassis is expensive and I know if if
[26:42] you miss out, I know it's going to lump.
Not only that, but they don't like these
[26:47] other manufacturers,
they don't make a trip to those specs in
[26:52] a stock truck program. The other thing
too is Maxi Metal has what's called
[26:57] their their current Sourcewell. I don't
know if anyone's ever heard of Source
[27:01] Well. It's a consortium purchasing
company. So it's quite similar to Canoe.
[27:06] » So we asked about that at the beginning.
Is that is that something that's more
[27:10] beneficial to us to pursue or not? and
they said that for somewhere like um
[27:16] city of Toronto for example where you're
you know you have a fleet of
[27:21] 140 fire trucks then that's something
where someone obviously doesn't have the
[27:24] time to sit down and source out truck
after truck after truck because it'd be
[27:28] a full-time job. So what it is is they
go through these purchasing companies
[27:31] where they source it. They take care of
all the
[27:34] » the the leg work and then they present
it to them. Whereas with us, like you
[27:39] said, it's not that, like you said, some
couldn't. It's just that it's something
[27:43] to look into. And then if it's something
that's going to delay it by months or
[27:47] that it's not going to be a a a
financial benefit to us by going through
[27:52] them, then
>> but you've done all the ground work. You
[27:56] got to do is give them the code. You
already received everything you want,
[28:00] all the specs, and just say, "Hey, can
you do better?"
[28:02] » Yeah. because I was until I saw these
documents today and saw this
[28:06] presentation before I left home. I can
say I was honestly surprised because I
[28:12] thought we had already agreed that you
guys go ahead and get a new truck and
[28:16] I'm sitting here thinking that was six
months ago. Now there's tariffs. Now the
[28:21] price has gone up.
>> Uhoh. Like you guys can't be down the
[28:25] truck.
>> No. And that's that's kind of our my
[28:27] hope coming tonight was that we
>> like this has been nights and weekends
[28:32] and evenings and stuff and we've been
putting a lot into it. So we've been
[28:35] » studying everything going through the
specs. This will be our third meeting
[28:38] with the company. We've been on the
phone with other suppliers throughout
[28:41] the country and stuff and we did the
labor like you said
[28:44] » that part is all done. So, as far as
when it comes down to dollars and cents,
[28:49] if for some reason that they're able to
have a benefit to us through this, by
[28:54] all means, I'm 100% open for that. If
though that it's going to, then that
[28:58] would be my
>> spec meet your specs. Exactly.
[29:01] » And time frame has to be a time. And
right now, he's saying that they're
[29:07] forgiving the tariffs right now.
>> No, because they're not forgiving it.
[29:10] They already have them here. Well, he is
not.
[29:14] » No, but you're right in the way. So,
they they are forgiving the tariffs on
[29:18] the equipment.
>> Yeah.
[29:19] » For he said he's going to give us a few
weeks. So, by a few weeks, I would say
[29:23] like probably mid to late March would be
the probably the longest they can push
[29:27] that forward. But all the equipment that
they receive that they wouldn't have all
[29:31] that sitting on shelves. Obviously,
they're going to have to get some. So,
[29:35] the more that they have to bring in if
it's tariff, then the more that's going
[29:38] to drive. So, can I make a motion that
we ask Rob to call canoe
[29:46] » um and find out if
>> that if this is, you know, we'll find
[29:52] beneficial if it can help or if it can't
help
[29:56] » and get an answer and if they say no,
then we give him the go-ahhead to order
[30:01] what he's got right up there.
>> I'll second it.
[30:04] » But I would like to say too little
there's a time frame. they can't be uh
[30:09] » and I'm sure in one or two phone calls
you're going to get the answer. I think
[30:13] whoever you talk to with canoe is going
to be able to say yes, we can help with
[30:17] this or unfortunately no we can't. I
don't think it's going to be a
[30:21] wishy-washy with Canoe because they know
what they cover and they don't cover it.
[30:26] But can it hurt to make a phone call?
>> If it's going to save us50 or $100,000
[30:33] for example,
>> why not? But if they can't or they're
[30:37] not answering us, then we have to
>> in theory you have a council meeting
[30:42] next Tuesday.
>> Yep.
[30:44] » In theory by then.
>> Yes.
[30:46] » In a perfect world to hear something
representative of canoe that could say
[30:52] » yes we can definitely help you with this
or not a whole lot we can do. Please,
[30:57] please tell the members that we're all
on board for you getting a new truck and
[31:02] we misunderstood because we thought in
September
[31:05] that we agreed to do that apparently.
>> You did motion to purchase it, but you
[31:10] said that this you were
>> agreed in favor of that.
[31:14] » Okay.
>> The CR.
[31:19] So anyway, tell the fire department
>> that is what we want for you guys that
[31:25] we're on your side for what that is and
just explain. Rob's going to call you
[31:31] » and then we'll have an answer. Like I
said, I don't think it'll be a big long
[31:36] conversation.
>> No, as a as a minor note, as a caution
[31:39] to council, I warn any counselor speak
on behalf of councilman about the
[31:43] support within their big motion
predating it.
[31:47] you would be able to confirm just saying
the val you'd be able to validate that
[31:52] unanimous by vote not by
>> an unspoken assumption that
[31:58] » um that there's support. So you do want
to
[32:01] » preface that.
>> Yeah. So
[32:04] » So do we
>> just make a motion for you to call canoe
[32:09] and then
>> I you don't need a motion to do that.
[32:11] Okay. No
talk about that. We'll figure out how
[32:15] out when we follow up
>> and bring it to next meeting.
[32:18] » Yeah. For next meeting, we'll we'll know
whether it's a viable path forward with
[32:22] canoe versus the route that has already
been taken with the source of the
[32:27] decision. So it'll be
>> that would be my request if possible by
[32:34] then at least if we could
>> that way I can give him feedback on
[32:39] their end of what
[32:44] » we're supposed to be.
>> Okay. So thank you really appreciate it.
[32:52] Okay.
>> Next
[32:56] have a presentation. It's
>> 850. You said it from
[33:00] » Perry. Okay. We're going to spend
$850,000.
[33:04] Chief Perry, please say no. We're
running out of money.
[33:10] Got some sheep dogs
down the road.
[33:14] » Oh,
[33:17] just before he starts
>> the EPA.
[33:22] » Yeah.
>> Is no longer going to be in existence in
[33:24] about six months
>> as far as regulations for Yeah.
[33:28] » So I don't know how
[33:32] » we'll see how that goes.
>> Yeah. I think the only as a minor point
[33:37] of information I'll I'll at some risk
>> if you're meaning that the EPA is being
[33:43] decommissioned by the federal branch of
the
[33:47] » it falls back to the states California
would still
[33:51] » almost all regulations that are enacted
in California become law in the United
[33:55] States with or without BPA because the
buying power and the size of California
[34:00] which is why you sort of heard that's
true across the board ultimately so that
[34:03] is to say those regulations
Even with probably don't go away
[34:18] » or you can just switch
[34:34] » I just format it ever so slightly in
that the same no contact sheets.
[34:40] » So for the past several years we've been
putting plans together for like a 10
[34:44] year plan and
we we've already had this in place. Uh
[34:49] there's some costing I've get in some of
the places and some costing I don't have
[34:53] it. And the reason for the cost was I
didn't go get cost on windows doors and
[34:58] stuff because I wanted to see if it
would fit into the the council's plans
[35:02] for going forward. So some of the stuff
was no cost and there's not a big panic.
[35:06] Stuff that should be done. Time frame is
not not important. We start off with a
[35:10] cardboard station.
We had uh we need windows replaced here.
[35:15] They're wooden windows and they're
pretty well done. And there's not many.
[35:19] There's only a few of them in the
building.
[35:22] We talked about adding mini splits in
the training area and also painting the
[35:27] truck bays and then my option for mini
split in in the truck bays which we
[35:32] would have to get somebody to see if
it's even feasibly pulling
[35:35] » because right now we run electric and
oil.
[35:37] » Yeah, oil is really expensive.
>> Yeah,
[35:41] » but the mini splits work pretty well. So
that's there's not a lot to be done.
[35:46] That's that's for the hardboard station
over the next few years. So, we'll move
[35:50] on to Beersville.
[35:55] This is cost and this this has to be
done in 2026. Our roof is getting pretty
[35:59] bad and that is a a cost and I got from
a contractor $29,000. That's that's
[36:05] today's prices. So, of course, if tariff
goes in next year, it could be $36,000.
[36:10] You don't know. That's today's prices.
And uh people have asked me to put steel
[36:16] on, but the way our building is, our
building is in
[36:20] Yeah,
>> the peak comes down towards doors.
[36:23] » So, if you put steel on, there's a
better chance to put put snow on the
[36:26] doors and if you don't hold it right
away, it just gets like cement.
[36:30] » You can put stoppers, but then you're
going to put a load on your sealant,
[36:33] too, right? So,
>> I mean, shingles, we put them on. These
[36:36] lasted for 17 or 18 years. So, put
another set of sh on. So, that's that
[36:41] should be in the budget for next year
budget. Uh the windows in the in the
[36:45] building, this is more of a cosmetic
thing to me than than it is an important
[36:49] thing, but all the seals broken on the
windows. They are reling
[36:55] the glasses and they're from Global
Windows. I checked the restore. There's
[36:58] no wash.
>> So that's something that doesn't have to
[37:01] be done as cosmetic. Uh like I said,
there's no pricing on these. Just
[37:05] because I said we could make a pricing
and decide to put them in it works in
[37:09] your budget, 28, 29, 30, really doesn't
matter. There's no hurry for that. Um,
[37:14] our ceilings are high in the fire
station. We find it cool down around the
[37:19] trucks, but up top of the trucks when
you load no is very hot. So, we thought
[37:22] we put a couple of industrial fans in
there to circulate the air on the
[37:26] heating too, right? Did your uh your
thermostat stuff down low there. That's
[37:32] all for the be station.
[37:43] So M1 is our tandem tanker and it's due
to be uh replaced in 20 20.
[37:52] » Yeah. Um
but it's not a firstline truck and the
[37:57] trucks today are lasting better than the
older trucks with the old GMs and all
[38:01] the trucks that left the bed truck in
bed. So on this truck here, we would
[38:05] reassess it and and I guess be to
replace 2029 and in 2032, we would we
[38:11] would look at it in to be see if it
would still pass. And we're thinking
[38:16] it's going to it had the motor rebuild
in it once at a cost of $45,000 just to
[38:20] rebuild the motor. So the truck is still
in good shape.
[38:25] » How old is it?
>> How old is it?
[38:30] » What year?
>> Six years. uh 2009, but we got it in
[38:35] 2010. Okay.
So, 20 years 20 years of life. Your
[38:41] first responder truck can't be any older
than 20 years out of the graves. So,
[38:45] it's no longer a first responding truck.
It's a backup tank or what it is, but
[38:50] it's a bumper tank, too. We can fight
tires and everything.
[38:54] Also, engine two will need tires in
2034. Now
[38:59] I don't know if it's CSA that does that
but in the province in a bunch you can't
[39:03] tires on a truck any longer 10 years so
they have to be replaced so we put some
[39:07] cost in there in 2034 engine roughly
these are all today's prices still you
[39:12] don't know will happen right
>> 10 years from now they're $1,000 for
[39:16] tires today
>> engine three and hardware station need
[39:20] to be based in 2829
uh
[39:27] stand out.
Yeah, it's got to be replaced. It's it's
[39:30] a first truck out in our city, so it has
to be replaced. It's going to be just
[39:34] going to be 20 years old, so it has to
be replaced. And the cost of that it
[39:38] would cost roughly today's price is
around $600,000.
[39:42] » Parkplace hanger.
>> What's that?
[39:44] » Is it a pump?
>> Pump tanker. Yeah.
[39:48] So, that's something we have to work on.
Uh Rescue 4 is another truck that uh uh
[39:54] is going to be assessed in 2032. It's
it's life is on death at 20 years flat.
[39:59] This is another truck that can be put
off. It could even run on probably as
[40:02] high as 25 years, 30 years. Okay. Just a
just it's not a bumper truck. It's just
[40:07] all it is that we pull balls.
So, and tanker nine stars in 2030.
[40:15] Now, just to say in in 20
in 2029,
[40:23] the beers station is paid off. So
there's payment gone there. In 2030,
[40:28] Tanker 9 is paid off there. Also in
2018, Rescue 4 is paid off. So that's
[40:34] that's allow that's freeing up
$300,000 cash. So to buy a truck in
[40:40] 2829, you're looking at probably then to
$130,000 payment. So it's not as if it's
[40:49] going to cost you any more today than
it's costing right now.
[40:53] We always replace our trucks as one
truck was paid off, they rolled into
[40:56] another truck because if you never let
the taxes go down, you would never get
[41:00] them back up again. So the province
always go to another truck.
[41:06] And this is our schedule for for uh
changing equipment. There's our trucks
[41:13] and stuff. And the other ones are half
done such as the 2012 Silverado. It's
[41:17] it's to be determined. Them are small
purchases that can be done. uh at the
[41:23] time whether we need to whether it has
been done or not. So there's really no
[41:27] schedule on them trucks and four-wheeler
and there's a Zodiac motor truck
[41:38] and see this is this is a big thing here
2000
[41:45] 2026 are not certifying anymore 2216.
So what that means is right now we run
[41:52] 2216 Scott air packs. Uh they're only
going to start reertifying
[41:58] 4500 Scott air packs. So the air packs
we have now are stol. We're going to
[42:03] lose three of them in 2033
[42:08] to u
and we're going to lose the rest of
[42:13] them. I've got 12 packs. So we have nine
packs left. They're good to 208.
[42:17] The problem is we're running out of
bottles. All the stuff has shelf life on
[42:21] it. So we can't we can't stock up on
stuff. So we have to we have to buy the
[42:26] stuff when you're going to use it
because if you buy 15 if you buy today
[42:31] in 15 years is no good. So you would
lose 5 years. You're going to change
[42:34] 2030.
And the standards on the Scott airact
[42:37] doesn't go by how old you are. It goes
on the standard you bought. So NFPA
[42:41] standard which that's what we run out of
the province. I don't know if council is
[42:44] going to run into that or not. That's
something that policy you want to figure
[42:47] out. But there were three standard back.
So if you buy at the first of the
[42:51] standard, you've got 15 years in your
pack. If you buy the last of the
[42:55] standard, you've only 11 years on your
pack and it's still the same price. It's
[42:59] a stupid system they have, but that's
the system they got. So if you're going
[43:03] to run NFPA standards, uh, work safe
compun really doesn't have anything on
[43:08] that. They got some talking about
breathing air and wearing masks and and
[43:14] shaving beards and that kind of stuff.
So there was two options that we put
[43:18] down here. One option was
is uh if we buy bottles today, start
[43:24] buying them from now till 2033,
uh we would have enough bottles to last
[43:31] us to 2038. So our Scott air packs would
be good to 2038.
[43:36] » Okay. If we don't buy bottles today,
then our our stuff is going to run in 20
[43:42] in 2033.
[43:46] Yeah. But if you're going to go if
you're going to go to this new standard,
[43:49] new standard is going to be 2031 or
2032.
[43:53] That's when the new standard starts. So
you're better off to buy starting a new
[43:56] standard than buy. And the problem is
with with
[44:03] going from 2260 and 20 4500s, nothing
matches.
[44:07] Okay. So, you can't do that. So, if you
decided to buy a few packs now and a few
[44:11] balls now, first thing we have to
replace for sure
[44:15] and then you're going to have equipment
that's not that's not going to match.
[44:18] So, in a volunteer department, I find it
you might have stuck as simple as you
[44:22] possibly can. People don't get confused.
You grab the bag and grab a ball. Now,
[44:26] this ball go
find a ball.
[44:30] » You're kind of busy.
>> I was burn.
[44:33] » So, what's your suggestion? What would
you
[44:36] » don't think it really matters a whole
lot to me. These are today's prices. So,
[44:41] one thing I thought about today was we
we could always purchase a compressor
[44:45] earlier. It's roughly around $40,000.
Maybe we can buy it for the end of the
[44:49] week and then you can save too.
>> But, u
[44:54] we could turn it down 4500 which when
our compressor pumps up today and then
[44:58] we'd have a compression for six hours.
That's something that you could use
[45:01] today to do that which I just thought
about that today.
[45:05] So to me there's really I think the best
way is is is your goal when you're
[45:11] putting your capital all together where
is this going to fit in to work on it.
[45:15] Your 20 bottles going to cost you
$30,000. If you buy the bottles then
[45:19] you're good to 2030.
We've got 12 packs now and we feel we
[45:24] back we can go down to nine and we still
be good nine packs because we feel if
[45:28] you get eight guys inside air packs then
you're not going to have many guys left.
[45:32] do the other and be done.
So that's one option. The other option
[45:36] was to buy all in in 2031 2032 where
cost of today's prices are actually
[45:41] done. So with the change you have to
change all of it like
[45:46] » there's cost balls the big yellow balls
we have change them change in our rescue
[45:52] » the whole everything's ever changed
>> like the thing that
[45:55] » everything the mask everything
>> everything
[45:59] » does it have to be like Scott
>> and there's something there too because
[46:04] I told the guy when he told me this I
said well if we're changing everything
[46:07] now we can go to look at NSA we can go
to Scott we can go to Gregor and you
[46:10] know I can't think of
four of them. We just switched to MSA
[46:14] our last order we just got to 4500s and
then that's because they're get them a
[46:19] little cheaper and apparently everyone
says they're really good quality. So we
[46:24] kept going for it was always upgrade and
you would upgrade but now you're going
[46:28] to you go decide to go new with
everything then you have the option to
[46:31] switch
>> and I think they're all up to the
[46:34] standard doesn't matter standard so
they're all safe
[46:39] if you buy if if we decide to go on
buying the bottles to last to 2038 we've
[46:45] got to start doing that this year. So
what would we do? Would we buy two or
[46:49] three bottles now? Three more bottles to
2033. When we get to 2033, we'll have
[46:53] spent 20 or 30,000 or
>> 30,000.
[46:59] You might be up to 35 to 40,000 by the
time you're done. But that will get us
[47:03] to 2038.
>> We still get our spot max tested. It's
[47:06] just that it's just that Scott aviation
is not or NFPA is not doing tested on
[47:12] 2260.
They say that we need 4500s in order to
[47:17] come up to the standard.
>> So that 30,000 would be spread out over
[47:21] five years or eight years or whatever
>> from now till 2832
[47:25] » and then that changes the bottom number
again when we have to change everything.
[47:30] » Yeah.
[47:34] » Good. Either or it's gonna cost
>> Oh, only thing is about that time Trump
[47:40] should be billing.
[47:46] » Come down when they
>> So that's the option there. That's
[47:50] something I think that maybe fit into
your plans and go through your numbers.
[47:54] » Yeah,
>> because it really doesn't make any
[47:56] difference to us. I mean, our packs are
all good. They all work. They test every
[47:59] year. So, we bet no problem.
Any
[48:08] questions on that? I know kind of
confusing, but
[48:13] turnup gear. We're always we're always
buying new turnout gear just to keep up.
[48:16] And
>> we've started something the last two
[48:19] years getting all my interior fires two
turnout gear because now we have to send
[48:23] our turnout gear away to get tested
which is gone for a weekend. It needs
[48:27] repairs gone a little bit longer. Also,
every time you have a structure fire
[48:31] now, usually into the building, you have
to take and clean your suits and wash
[48:34] them. And so, I take time to dry. So,
once we get our our interior
[48:39] firefighters, then we'll be buying suits
for them every five years. So, we'll
[48:43] have a suit because they're only for 10
years, right? So, every five years
[48:46] you'll be able to get new suits. So, and
then the other suits just as needed. We
[48:50] have a lot of firefighters that don't do
interior.
[48:53] » 3500 per per
[48:57] » Yeah. for one
>> your helmets and your gloves and even
[49:00] your boots don't they don't last anyway
they're always changing over your gloves
[49:04] changing over your your helmet's good
for 10 years let's not be this would be
[49:09] purchased this year here
>> this today's cost too by the way
[49:13] » that's just the jacket and the pants
>> jacket jacket
[49:17] » now there is cheaper there is cheaper
but we've been buying the set and we've
[49:21] got the set where we want it now so we'd
like to stay with as far as SCBAS we can
[49:27] to tender the prices and stuff and even
with fire truck I mean you can look into
[49:30] that too but our turnout here is
something that that we like that who we
[49:35] buy from this
>> year's
[49:39] all that
>> what's that
[49:41] » I'm wondering about canoe for all of
that if what you're saying is right with
[49:45] you know everything that's going to be
outdated it's not just going to affect
[49:48] us it's going to affect every single
fire department so I'm thinking that
[49:52] canoe must be all over this
>> so
[49:55] » and they can go to multi the uh emails
and get quotes,
[49:58] » but where we're going longer term.
>> Only thing is I need an answer my budget
[50:02] time on the Scott bottles. We just
started buying Scott B. We're not going
[50:05] to do it. So, I'm not buying anymore.
>> 20 33 or stuff behind
[50:10] good air packs, but bottles for them and
the stuff you can't even give away. I
[50:15] try to do
>> we end up donating to Dominican. So,
[50:22] » it's good for us long term. There's no
problem going whatever whatever works
[50:27] for council not as long as we get
equipment but I could see more on the
[50:29] point that
>> he's
[50:34] so that's all I got that's that's our
plan that's a big expenditures
[50:38] » questions for Chief Perry
on the windows I know you said you
[50:43] talked to global but I
>> didn't talk to global I just think that
[50:47] they are from global
>> I know but I know someone that put those
[50:51] windows in and they did replace them not
in the
[50:57] Maybe it's a big trouble with that.
>> Maybe
[51:01] the seals.
>> Yes.
[51:04] » I just went through the paperwork last
week and it was only 10 years on that.
[51:10] » 15 years on the on the vinyl. 15 or 18
years on the vinyl.
[51:15] » And the building's only 18 years old.
>> But that's not a big expense. If you
[51:20] change all the windows, you're probably
$5,000. So they want to change. They
[51:24] just
>> to me it's cosmetic. People said, "Why
[51:27] didn't you get it done?"
>> Does it condense in between the glass?
[51:33] » Yeah.
>> But that was
[51:36] also heat escapes.
So
[51:38] » yeah. Does it ever turn the heat?
>> 85% of your heat. He lost her windows
[51:42] and doors
>> by turning the heat down too.
[51:46] » But that's the plan.
[51:50] » The stuff was the only one. The only
thing is the spider decision
[51:56] budget
>> and we need a truck.
[52:02] » The roof should be done next.
>> Yeah.
[52:09] » And you said there's a truck that needs
to be done when
[52:14] » replaced. 289
>> 28 29.
[52:18] » Which one?
>> Engine 3 and hardwork.
[52:21] » Oh. Same thing you want.
>> Yeah. And I we'll probably build it the
[52:25] same as same as what Beersville is. We
just our trucks identical.
[52:31] » We know where the
>> we tried to match them up when we bought
[52:33] this one here. We went see their their
truck and build so we could do 100%. So
[52:39] » cuz one was a freight line, one was an
international
[52:42] » and we're going to get caught with
terror. So we're going to get caught. We
[52:45] need so
>> maybe
[52:48] like you.
>> Thank you very much.
[52:51] Keith
>> said you're welcome to skip the next
[52:55] part because we're kind of be talking
into the CCF
[53:00] » Canada Community Building Fund
[53:10] just before World
[53:14] Canada building in front used to be
called the Amash and
[53:19] it is always is typically a subset for
any given municipality a subset of their
[53:25] capital plan
is the system plan. So the federal
[53:30] government uh through the province uh
administers the program uh our
[53:38] administrator in Canada Laria or sorry
in New Brunswick Laria you deal with and
[53:44] uh so there was a plan for 2014 2019 23
and 24 28 and uh
[53:53] it's for capital purchases so it's not
for operating expenditures repair and
[53:58] maintenance and so forth. There needs to
be capital assets you purchase. So if
[54:02] you just go forward as one now actually
yeah um so the 2019 23 in the course of
[54:08] speaking to Luke about our 2428 plan
which they do you can see there's not
[54:13] submitted or there's not one on file
with the province. Um we did have a 2019
[54:19] 23 plan but two of the three projects
have not been started. So, if you look
[54:23] at your council package, you don't need
to open this now, but I did include a
[54:27] copy of the actual 2019 23 plan. There's
three projects in it. The first one on
[54:33] page four is the California Road
upgrades that was completed. Um the
[54:39] second one, Brain Street upgrade for
200,000 was not completed.
[54:43] » And the third project on page six was
the it just says various municipal road
[54:49] upgrades. That was not completed. So,
what Luke said is that um
[54:56] that money has to be allocated through
this five-year program. So, our five
[55:01] year we either we can do the projects
that are listed there as two and three
[55:05] or we can remove those because they're
not started um and replace them with one
[55:11] project, three project, whatever,
however many to spend that roughly
[55:14] 290,000 or so extending it. And um
what we can't do is transfer that money
[55:22] to the 2420 had just add it to the 2428
plan. So the 881,000 that has been
[55:28] allocated to fire 2428 must stay in the
202428
[55:33] and you cannot absorb or um or or add in
the 286 that's in the 2019 23 plan which
[55:40] is not that big a deal. You just pick
projects that add up to that and put
[55:44] them in. Uh but for council's
information, we will next week where our
[55:48] plan is to my plan is to um update the
20 23 2019 23 plan. I will check with
[55:55] Luke. I'll send it to him before the
council meeting and see that it's more
[55:58] or less okay.
We'll add in projects and we'll do the
[56:02] same with the 2428, give him a preview
of it, which is pretty normal just to
[56:06] see the council approves it. Then you
find out you can't do something in there
[56:10] and then it's creates another loop. You
have to go back and update it again. So,
[56:15] and just as a note I've made before, the
2428 plan, 50% of the last year's
[56:20] allocation
uh was held and will be continue to be
[56:24] held until they receive the 24 to 28
plan. So, it's going to go to the next
[56:29] slide.
What I'm roughly proposing, but is that
[56:37] the 286,9
roughly that's there you could keep the
[56:41] breakthrough project. You will notice
it's 200 in there. Um
[56:46] I was talking to the mayor a little bit
earlier about this. That could be
[56:50] another street. That is something we can
discuss. I think we identified church
[56:53] and school maybe as the highest
priorities. Um but the ad there is that
[56:59] um you keep that street, keep project
two andor change the street that you
[57:04] were going to do. Although great is a
good candidate for work as well. Uh I
[57:09] would propose that you replace project
three with new community projects. So
[57:13] what we talked before council is u
beersville claville community center. Um
[57:20] there's they would like to have concrete
pad for the rinkage gravel. Now that
[57:24] would be about 50k the bass river hall.
Uh they want a wheelchair accessible
[57:29] ramp and stairs. Their current ramp and
stairs shouldn't be very bad here. Uh
[57:34] that' be 35. And for Greenwood Lodge,
there's bathroom rep rates. Make sure
[57:38] again wheelchair accessibility as well
as front steps like on preeps 25.
[57:44] Those are not super firm uh estimates in
the sense that they're based on quotes
[57:49] and that sort of thing. That's not the
case. They are estimates, but they're
[57:52] pretty fair estimates. I don't think
they'll go north or south too badly. And
[57:56] to the extent that they will um within
that you know spend there could be you
[58:01] know pluses and minuses that have to
come out to about that total of 110 and
[58:05] or you cover through operating
expenditures. Um then I'm done in there.
[58:11] You could also add in project 4 new
project in that if you had um and this
[58:17] is fluid. You could make the 150 180 and
not do the fourth in that within the 23
[58:23] plan. But I thought I did for the sake
of getting to the figure I had 30 in
[58:30] there against the Beersville roof which
>> the community center.
[58:34] » No, no, that's
roof. do that. Now, that does sort of
[58:39] start to play with the line of
difference between repair and
[58:41] maintenance and asset. I'd have to check
with Luke to see whether that was fully
[58:45] eligible. I think it will be, but that
does poke towards the line a bit. Um,
[58:53] » so that would take care of the 2019 23
between and you could say for like a
[58:59] street upgrade and then um the community
projects
[59:03] » that owns up to the 286.
>> Yeah. All those
[59:08] » four projects. Okay.
>> Yeah. Now, the other the other note
[59:10] about that is that um uh for the in case
you're wondering, when we're doing
[59:16] projects for a third party organization,
nonprofit, all of the transactions run
[59:21] through us. So, we would do the quoting,
we would do the uh we would get the
[59:26] quotes, we pick the vendor, we do the
payments, it would all root through the
[59:30] town. It would not root through those
organiz that would be you can drift them
[59:34] through, but it creates more
complications. completely advised that
[59:37] each of the town should just do itself.
It keeps it simpler and keeps you out of
[59:41] trouble anymore.
>> Sounds good.
[59:43] » So, just on the um two things again, the
grade street upgrade that street so that
[59:50] we can do that
like with 150,000 obviously.
[59:55] » Well, it depends on what you do. So you
could if you I mean if you did repaving
[1:00:00] I think the original scope had like a
removal of sidewalk and then there was
[1:00:04] repaving and do the full length. You
could also do part of the street.
[1:00:07] There's nothing says you have to do the
whole street. We I don't any not to keep
[1:00:12] on saying I but we had a long street but
we only did about a quarter of them. We
[1:00:16] did it two years consecutively because
we couldn't afford to do it all in one
[1:00:19] year. But um in any event uh there are
options there but you could also switch
[1:00:23] out the church or school.
>> Yeah. You know, there's another thing
[1:00:27] with school. I was going to mention to
pay after
[1:00:30] » the problem. There's a problem with
school.
[1:00:33] » What is it?
>> Well, with the buses and and drop off
[1:00:37] some pickups, there's like it needs to
be wide.
[1:00:39] » Terrible.
>> It's not not wide enough.
[1:00:42] » No way.
>> No way.
[1:00:43] » Does it have a sidewalk?
>> Yes.
[1:00:46] » Yeah.
>> It has a pull in
[1:00:49] to get into detail, but it's future
thing. Yes. Beautiful springs and you
[1:00:54] can't go away.
But the other thing too, so uh the Lions
[1:00:59] Club, they requested upgrades to their
kitchen.
[1:01:02] » What I did here was because these are
all external organizations. The Lions
[1:01:06] Club, while it's still an external
organization, it's our building, right?
[1:01:09] » So these are not our building. So I lump
these together because a community uh
[1:01:14] upgrade project for things that are not
in that we do not own. So buildings we
[1:01:21] don't.
And then the other thing I mentioned off
[1:01:24] the top the counselor is that this is
not the sum total of all the capital
[1:01:28] work we'll do and there's actually in
the last slide I mentioned there's still
[1:01:31] money we we have through reserves and
savings we can allocate this is simply
[1:01:36] this is what I thought would be more an
approach to resolving or closing off
[1:01:41] 2019 23 and then as well you'll see 20
20 uh uh 24 to 28 becomes relatively
[1:01:47] simple when you factor in the two trucks
to be purchased and and that was
[1:01:51] intentional because now trucks with
first time are allowed under CCBF and
[1:01:55] the purchase of those two trucks would
essentially uh that would that would
[1:02:00] take care of the 881 plus and they'll
I'll explain how the
[1:02:03] » next slide.
>> Yeah.
[1:02:06] Yeah. Yeah.
>> So with 2024 2028 we have 881 to
[1:02:11] allocate. So you buy the rubber trainer
for Rex and 825 and look if there's play
[1:02:17] the numbers if it's 25 for but in any
event um it was 525 from CCBF and 8 300
[1:02:26] from source so that would be from
reserves that we already have and this
[1:02:30] will be by next year that you would have
it. So we had for example now I don't
[1:02:35] want to be too definitive here but it
looks like we'll be having the surplus
[1:02:38] for 2025 and north of 200. So that's now
that was not put into reserve last year
[1:02:44] but it is available to the town. So the
idea there is the way to get the 825 525
[1:02:50] CCDF 300 from source the truck for the
Beersville hard courts 550
[1:02:56] uh if you do do that in the last year
this plan 350 for CCDF 200 from source
[1:03:01] so that's 500 on source total and 825
uh eight sorry 875 which basically takes
[1:03:09] out I mean again I'm using round figures
for simplicity, but that takes it grade
[1:03:13] 81 and then you're that so that plan for
218 consists of two fire trucks and then
[1:03:20] everything else. But the nice thing
about that is that everything else we
[1:03:23] decide to do, we don't have to litigate,
manage, coordinate it with Luke and God
[1:03:30] bless Luke, but we don't have to go to
the province for permission or haggle
[1:03:33] over anything or get it validated or
tested, etc., etc. Is our choice
[1:03:38] qualified? It's a check in the box. It's
done in order. So So it makes for a very
[1:03:43] simple, you know, CCF plan.
>> So does that mean we have no cut
[1:03:47] payments?
>> No. Well, it it depends like at the time
[1:03:53] when I say 300 source, you take a
reserve, you decide to borrow
[1:03:58] » at that time. It'll depend on and we
have the second part of this which is
[1:04:01] the harder and more challenging part is
and and I might add like warranty
[1:04:06] there's a longer list of things for
accent. There's some other things that
[1:04:09] Mark has mentioned for his then that
fits into your capital envelope and even
[1:04:13] some of it in operating tanks you might
go operating you might go assets but any
[1:04:18] event so in looking at the rest of it
whether you have to borrow for not
[1:04:23] depends on what else you intend to spend
how many streets we do is there a sewer
[1:04:26] system part two that we have to do the
cost we need etc etc so that's that's
[1:04:31] what uh and not to get too nuanced but
if you if there were a sewer system part
[1:04:36] two
>> it might be easier to do that to your
[1:04:39] own reserves or savings than it is
through borrowing or might or the flip
[1:04:43] of that. So that's a larger set of
calculations. CCDF in a way is more
[1:04:48] contained and simple and that that
knocks off your 881 that takes care of
[1:04:52] it. You can obviously you know purchase
a $825,000 and a 550 with 881,000 but uh
[1:05:00] that's why that's where the 500 home
source come in. So, so you believe it's
[1:05:04] it would be best practice to use the tax
>> whatever
[1:05:10] gas tax money
>> um to to pay for the two fire trucks for
[1:05:15] example.
>> Um
[1:05:18] whereas
could we not use that money for
[1:05:26] other road projects and borrow that
money? The reason why Deputy Mary
[1:05:32] wouldn't the way I would say you would
do that this is
[1:05:36] » I think part of the challenge if you
were committed to buying this one way or
[1:05:39] the other the easiest way to do it is
through the CCBF because it simplifies
[1:05:42] the administration of that program and
they don't let here's the thing let's
[1:05:46] suppose for a moment you
>> decided you were going to do you're
[1:05:49] going to pay roads AB C and D
>> and then two years from now you decide
[1:05:54] you know what I'd rather pay D than Da
go back and change your plan if you make
[1:05:58] that change because they actually ask
you for coordinates like G uh GPS
[1:06:03] coordinates for your roads and the
length of the roads and the whole thing
[1:06:06] when you do that application. So to
avoid all that, if you p if we know the
[1:06:11] fire truck we're buying, we say we're
going to purchase this firet truck for
[1:06:14] this department, done deal, we
contribute 300, you take three, there's
[1:06:19] no fuss. But everything you do, like if
you do an upgrade to a park and you say
[1:06:23] you change, if your plans change or your
priorities change,
[1:06:26] » you got to go back through the process,
which isn't like everybody, there's no
[1:06:31] need to go through that. It just keeps
it nice and simple forward.
[1:06:35] » Yeah. The simplest. So for the truck
payments that I don't believe you guys
[1:06:41] have any
>> um
[1:06:43] » truck payments you have you guys have
any deurly.
[1:06:46] » Yeah.
>> Oh there are Mark you said you have
[1:06:50] trucks being paid off. Where would that
those payments that what I would
[1:06:56] » they just disappear? a couple that where
were those pig? So let me see if I fall.
[1:07:02] I was leading to another point which is
I would not at least the way I think I
[1:07:06] can tell you I do not think about and
you talk about the market like we had
[1:07:11] five deer payments after a million
dollars for a fire. I do not necessarily
[1:07:14] think we replace them with five payments
or two payments for a million. You don't
[1:07:18] go leg for life. You go based on what
you actually need. Might be more, it
[1:07:21] might be less. The timing might be
different, etc.
[1:07:24] you you you you borrow what you should
what you need to borrow
[1:07:29] » and if you didn't have to borrow then
that would be the ideal world and you
[1:07:32] had lots of funds that come in but the
details of that you kind of hash out all
[1:07:37] like the purchases after this which
leaves all the internal work if you will
[1:07:41] for the town or I should forgive me
saying town it's a habit
[1:07:44] » I know
>> for mis valley you can figure out as you
[1:07:47] go along so the second part of this the
capital the large the internal capital
[1:07:51] plan which will include this is more
complicated and gets into more decision
[1:07:56] like it gets into that do we borrow is
it reserves what makes sense etc and it
[1:08:00] depends on everybody interest rates
>> um you know other say what you do
[1:08:06] » don't you also kind of need a rainy day
slush fund for it just in case
[1:08:10] » yeah I mean you
>> you don't want to deplete your reserves
[1:08:14] right
>> that's a larger discussion and strategy
[1:08:17] on like
>> that's why they have operating reserves
[1:08:19] and capital reserves and capital funds
>> uh to give you
[1:08:24] But like you said, it is
these are the two things we're gonna do.
[1:08:28] These are our two plans and a
conversation.
[1:08:32] another TA
said actually you should they say you
[1:08:37] know for your CCBF or your gas tax just
keep it as simple as you can like have
[1:08:41] fewer projects and make them so write
them in such a way they've actually they
[1:08:46] write them in such a way you have more
flexibility to administer them or to
[1:08:49] decide to do they actually because of
the change they've made to the template
[1:08:53] you have less flexibility because now
they want you to put kilometers make you
[1:08:57] got to get coordinates they want you to
be able to look up and see what you're
[1:09:00] doing so it's really But it's a pretty
big oversight to have. So this is like
[1:09:05] super simple.
>> And this is the first time they've
[1:09:07] allowed
>> first time. Well, 25 you said. Yeah. 25.
[1:09:11] Yeah.
>> Started 24. You could
[1:09:13] » we're going to talk about this morning.
>> Yes.
[1:09:16] » Yes. This is an overview tonight.
>> Um people to think about I guess
[1:09:24] look at
>> Yeah. And we can see our
[1:09:28] next
[1:09:31] » okay so
[1:09:36] that was all
>> that was
[1:09:38] » so we'll go on to 5D by policy updates.
>> Yeah.
[1:09:47] » Oh the okay
>> just a short update I guess. Yeah,
[1:09:52] update is just a narrative add to this,
but just for the information of council.
[1:09:56] So, the bylaw committee has been working
on two two uh two bylaws and four
[1:10:03] policies now four policies and two
bylaws priming the proceedings of
[1:10:06] council and the sewer.
>> So, we've got that to a pretty big state
[1:10:10] and pretty close and I think ready for
second reading.
[1:10:13] » Yeah.
>> Uh the four policies administrative
[1:10:16] standards which I talked about with
council before which again has been
[1:10:19] tuned and is getting there. uh municipal
fees and charges which is the idea of
[1:10:23] which is to concentrate or to
consolidate all fees and charges for her
[1:10:27] and town. So there's a one-stop shop for
residents as well as council on a yearly
[1:10:32] basis to decide or both to share what
their rates and fees are or to update
[1:10:37] them with your council. Um we added a a
policy for coding which just creates a
[1:10:44] standard um set of codes for both bylaws
and policies. So it's simplified and
[1:10:49] obvious. And so over time it can stay
consistent and so people know that like
[1:10:55] you know proceedings of council is A1
for example
[1:11:00] » and uh the final one is we did get a
first draft to the bylaw and policy
[1:11:06] committee of the grant program municipal
grant program.
[1:11:10] » So that is again pretty good but there's
still be some tuning we did for that one
[1:11:15] as well but uh that's in place. So
that's all just was
[1:11:18] » that's for Tuesday night.
>> Tuesday night. Yeah. We have
[1:11:22] » coming forward, right?
>> Yeah.
[1:11:26] » Yeah. But actually
>> the current plan is for the bylaws to do
[1:11:31] a second reading council by title
>> and then two of the policies this is we
[1:11:37] were discussing this earlier is that at
least two of them will be held till
[1:11:41] April and then two may go through. I
mean the codes is a very basic one.
[1:11:45] there's not a lot of in there for uh to
be fussed over. And the gray one is
[1:11:49] though new is fairly advanced. Maybe
that is ready for reading. Maybe we hold
[1:11:54] it till later. So that's the those are
basically the issues here.
[1:12:00] » Good work.
>> All right.
[1:12:03] So um I guess that takes up our open
session. We're going to go into close
[1:12:07] session. together.
[1:12:18] » Thank you. Good night. See you guys.
>> Drive safe.
[1:12:26] » We'd like to move that we go into a
close session
[1:12:30] and
Mike. All those in favor signify by
[1:12:33] saying
against.