[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[1:34] Okay, the link is now up on our website.
[1:39] Okay, thank you, Erica. Okay, thank you, everybody, for joining. Welcome to our February 18, 2026 meeting of the Hamilton Public Library Board and our first meeting of 2026. Unfortunately, we're not able to be in person for this because of the weather, but I appreciate everybody coming virtual for our last minute changes to the implement weather conditions up there.
[2:04] So, I'll get started by reading the line of knowledge then.
[2:09] The City of Hamilton is situated upon the traditional territories of the Erie, Neutral,
[2:14] Heron, Wendat, Haudenosaunee, and Mississaugas.
[2:17] This line is covered by the dish with one spoon wampum belt covenant, which was an agreement
[2:21] between the Haudenosaunee and Anishinaabek to share and care for the resources around the
[2:26] Great Lakes.
[2:27] We further acknowledge that this land is covered by the between the Lakes
[2:31] Purchase 1792, between the Crown and the Mississauga's of the Credit First Nation.
[2:36] Today, the City of Hamilton is holed to many indigenous people from across
[2:39] Turtle Island, North America, and we recognize that we must do more to learn
[2:44] about the rich history of this land so that we can better understand our woals,
[2:48] as residents, neighbors, partners, and caretakers.
[2:53] Okay. So moving right along. The first thing we've got on the agenda today is a verbal
[3:00] delegation from Evan. This is Evan on the call. Oh, there's Evan. So if you want to get
[3:08] going maybe five or so minutes. Yeah, that sounds good. I can start whenever. Yeah. Awesome.
[3:17] Awesome. Thanks for letting me speak today. So hello, everyone, on the board. My name's Evan
[3:27] Yubin. I'm a resident in Ward 1 in Hamilton. I've lived in Hamilton for 12 years now.
[3:34] It doesn't seem that long, but it has been. And I submitted a delegation request today in
[3:42] response to the closure of the library due to reportedly, you know, some of the drug
[3:51] use outside the premises of central library.
[3:57] And I submitted the request because a lot of the reporting I was seeing on the issue
[4:04] was unfortunately directing from what I could tell a lot of the blame to yeah folks who are
[4:13] unhoused find themselves using drugs and that's one of the last places to go and so I definitely
[4:22] recognize that you know it shouldn't be on the library system to address this problem but the
[4:30] reality of the situation is, you know, that's one of the last places people have to go nowadays.
[4:39] And I did see actually a couple hours ago, Joey Coleman put out an article and I appreciate that
[4:49] there's quite a bit of recognition there that part of the reason for this problem is the closure of
[4:55] the safe supply sites. So I appreciate that. I also appreciate, you know, that the library has been
[5:04] supporting de-escalation strategies. So there were in the media indicated that staff have been
[5:12] trained on de-escalation. There's a community desk, social workers have been hired. So yeah,
[5:19] This is all really good stuff and I'd like to see this continue.
[5:25] What myself and a lot of other folks in the community who have tried to do some outreach
[5:33] at that library site and then other sites across the city, what we don't want to see and
[5:40] what hasn't worked is introducing police into the situation.
[5:46] So advocating for police to, you know, if there are people outside of the library, then it's up for police to deal with that problem.
[5:56] It hasn't worked. People have to go somewhere. If that's where they are, the police are just going to move them somewhere else.
[6:05] And they're going to be a problem there. Or worse, the police could arrest them.
[6:11] They might find themselves in jail and then when they leave and get back into the community, they're in the same situation.
[6:22] So it doesn't work.
[6:26] I've been at the library a couple of times since the closure was some friends who, you know, we had a little bit of funds to put together to help distribute some food
[6:39] and winter materials to folks and, you know, it's usually pretty, pretty, most people are pretty
[6:47] approachable no matter what situation they're in. There's also a lack of warming centers, especially
[6:56] overnight in the city. I know people are probably aware of this. A lot of folks have been getting
[7:04] routinely their encampments cleared from outside of the YWCA is a common spot but yeah they have to
[7:14] go somewhere. So I guess I'm here today to just reiterate that I appreciate what the library's
[7:22] been doing. I hope we can continue keeping the focus on the route of the problem which is that
[7:29] But there are a lack of supports for people, I'm hoping we can keep the focus on strategies
[7:37] that don't involve bringing police into the situation.
[7:43] And also to reiterate that the community is ready to support the library if it calls
[7:50] for funding to sustain that kind of approach and keep the library open.
[7:57] What the community is not going to respond to is if the library just calls for more funding to go to the police.
[8:05] So there's a lot of support for that kind of strategy, a de-escalation type strategy.
[8:13] I know the city can afford it because currently we're committed to almost a million a year
[8:20] just for extra support to enforce the encampment by law, which is a complete waste and yeah, so I just want to, yeah, I can't say it enough, the community is ready to support any, any division of the city that decides to take that approach, and we need more, more people to, so that's all I have to say today.
[8:47] Okay.
[8:47] I'm happy to take any questions if people have questions with what my experience has been
[8:54] doing some outreach, but that's all I have to say today.
[9:01] Okay.
[9:01] Thank you.
[9:02] Thank you, Evan, so much for coming and speaking and sharing our experience.
[9:06] I know we really appreciate all the work that you've been doing to help the community out
[9:12] in that way.
[9:12] So thank you from all of us.
[9:15] We maybe have time for a couple of questions.
[9:18] I'm not sure if anybody on the board has any questions.
[9:25] I don't, oh, Kojo, yeah, go ahead.
[9:30] Yes, can everyone hear me?
[9:34] Yes, yes, so again, thank you.
[9:36] It's always great to see members of the community
[9:39] come to the HPO board to delegate.
[9:43] So thank you for your time.
[9:44] I just want to be clear of your delegation insights and requests.
[9:53] So, you're saying that if the library needs additional funding,
[10:01] the community is able and willing to support any financial needs that might be needed
[10:08] to keep all library locations open? Is that what I heard?
[10:15] Yeah, I would imagine not a lot of people in the community would be willing to show up
[10:22] and demonstrate and support of that kind of initiative.
[10:27] Okay, thank you.
[10:31] Okay, I don't see any others. I've been just pointing out that we do have an update on central on the agenda as well.
[10:38] So you'll be able to listen on that as well to get some more information.
[10:43] Oh, Councillor Cratch, did you have your hand up?
[10:48] Yeah, I did. I wanted to just ask Evan if you could expand a bit on...
[10:51] I think it's something that I've been talking about. A lot of people have been talking about in the community for a very long time.
[10:55] What the impact is if people have nowhere else to go.
[10:58] So when, you know, if you could expand on when the fact, you know, there's no public spaces available for people anymore.
[11:05] The sites where people were lied on for using drug safely, safe supply checking, all that kind of stuff were gone in the community entirely.
[11:12] And folks are kind of left without any guidance from the city as to where they can go, so people are just going.
[11:19] Can you talk a bit more about that? Like what you're seeing in terms of an impact of that?
[11:23] The sort of multi levels of government decision making on that subject that's left where we are today?
[11:29] Yeah, I wrote an op-ed about this that the spectator luckily published. I think it was in August
[11:38] of last year or September in response to a lot of the protests that occurred over the summer
[11:45] regarding the updated encampment protocol. And I visited those sites a few times myself.
[11:56] And yeah, you know, it is interesting how when people are able to kind of get a little
[12:05] bit of stability even by being able to stay in one spot for weeks in a row, that is
[12:15] a significant help to them.
[12:17] And what we saw in the summer were police and bylaw would continually come in and say,
[12:25] okay, you can't be here anymore from the bylaw because of the bylaw.
[12:31] And so what did people do?
[12:33] They moved to the next park because where else can they go?
[12:40] So basically we're paying the salary of workers and staff and it's not even necessarily
[12:47] their fault either. That's just what their job is to move people around. It's like a glorified
[12:54] moving service. A militarized moving service is how I would describe it, right? So that, to me,
[13:03] is one of the not only a waste of money, but a pretty immoral waste of money. And so when we're
[13:14] talking about okay now people are outside of the library like I can appreciate that some families
[13:20] have concerns with this but again like people do have to go somewhere so at some point we need
[13:30] people to one get creative and to take a stand and say like this approach has not been working and
[13:39] and we're not gonna just go along with it.
[13:47] Thank you.
[13:48] I don't see any other questions.
[13:50] So again, Evan, thank you so much
[13:52] for coming and preparing those comments.
[13:55] We'll move on to our update on Central.
[13:59] So that's Paul, Kat, and Sarah.
[14:02] And I just wanna remind you all that we do have an in-camera item
[14:05] as well related to safety and security at Central.
[14:07] So that will come later on in the agenda.
[14:10] But Paul, Kat, Sarah, did you want to provide that update?
[14:14] So I'm going to start if that's okay, Board Chair, and then I'll pass it on to Chad and Sarah.
[14:19] And we wanted to, because as the Board knows, it's on the agenda that we have a
[14:25] in-camera discussion going on around security challenges at Central. But you know, we are a
[14:32] public board, and so we wanted to make sure that we had public discussion as well, so that we
[14:38] constrain our conversation to what needs to be dealt with confidentially.
[14:46] So there's a number of, there's been a lot of attention made to the fact that the central
[14:51] library, that we made a emergency decision to close on Sundays.
[14:58] and I think to be clear.
[15:00] Drug crisis back in the 2012, 13, 14, and we made a number of changes back then to address a crisis, so this is not like a new problem. I think it's clear the scale of severity is new, coming out of the pandemic, where the city had declared emergencies around homelessness, mental health and addiction.
[15:28] that winter of 23, 24, we saw a scale of homeless people in the library that we've never seen before.
[15:41] There's kind of two issues going on here. One are people not having options where options to go,
[15:46] and then there's the addictions issue.
[15:49] And so we've been doing our best to manage that.
[15:54] We have been advocating with the broader public library community, libraries, and in fact
[16:00] the national library community is saying governments need to provide adequate mental health
[16:05] and social supports.
[16:07] Otherwise it impacts community places like libraries, and I think we know there's a lot of businesses
[16:12] is downtown as well and other institutions that are feeling the effects of these crises.
[16:20] So that led us to implement a whole number of other steps.
[16:25] And I think Sarah and Chad have been needing that effort here at the Central Library.
[16:30] And the last winter was somewhat what the things improved somewhat after implementing.
[16:36] And I hear I'm talking about the peer support program that we started at the beginning of
[16:39] last year, this step system.
[16:44] We've had a social worker since 2014 at the library.
[16:49] And I think certainly we still have that now
[16:51] through a public health program that the library board
[16:54] is funding, where we find ourselves now
[16:58] is really in a very serious crisis at the library.
[17:05] And I can understand people like Evan and people
[17:09] saying, you know, policing this is not the solution, it's it's it's it's we're dealt with a
[17:15] situation where we have people coming in and distributing drugs in their space and having multiple
[17:22] overdoses in the library. And I'm talking at a scale that is extremely disruptive and you just
[17:32] Let's look at our numbers.
[17:35] Our children's department is not getting the kind of engagement it has in the past.
[17:45] So families with kids aren't feeling comfortable coming to Central because of what they're
[17:50] seeing.
[17:51] And in recent, in this really accelerated starting in November, we're not interested in
[17:59] blame on anyone. But we do need to make sure that we can provide a safe learning environment for
[18:06] families. And to have people overdosing, to have people doing other things, and, you know, I could
[18:14] go on with experience, it's not sustainable. And so I don't apologize for having police come
[18:25] again, they're focused on identifying people that are distributing drugs.
[18:32] There were a library. We have a family environment. People are dropping drugs like it's not a
[18:39] good situation. Anyway, I'm going to pass it on to Sarah and Chad who maybe can go into
[18:45] some more detail and maybe just around the closure. There's been no decision made, but we
[18:51] wanted the board board to be alert of the fact that we are in a crisis, and there needs to be
[18:57] help. And that help needs to be like not next year. When you have multiple people
[19:06] overdozing every day, it's not sustainable. So yeah, we are in a crisis, and I don't think we should
[19:14] and pretend we're not, I guess.
[19:19] So I would pass it on to Sarah and Chad, thank you.
[19:23] Yeah, thanks, Paul.
[19:24] I'll jump in first and then pass the mic over to Sarah.
[19:28] I just wanted to provide a formal update
[19:31] of some of the areas that have gone,
[19:35] that have happened over the last six weeks.
[19:38] We have suspended our Sunday service for the time being.
[19:42] We reached a point where the help that was required in the emergency situations through folks overdosing.
[19:53] We didn't have enough resources on site to get to every situation as they were happening on site.
[19:59] And the great work that the social workers do, the peer support programmers do, the managers and the staff do through the week.
[20:06] The same services aren't available on a Sunday.
[20:09] It was a very difficult decision, but we continue to see that suspended Sunday service and we continue to watch and better understand how
[20:19] incidences are occurring and when they're occurring to make the decision to get Sundays back going again.
[20:25] We've suspended the service, the early opening service, Monday to Saturday from 8 o'clock until 9 o'clock, for the same reasons.
[20:34] You know, the intention was to try to provide a place for people to be that third space early in the morning knowing we had limited resources, but the dramatic spike in incidences during those times and the disruption.
[20:50] We didn't have the resources to keep both the membership safe and the staff safe during that period, whereas at 9 o'clock, we've got a full staff compliment and the entire building is ready for use.
[21:01] And then lastly, we continue to suspend the study hall services for many of the same reasons.
[21:08] We do recognize that we've taken away the ability for some folks in our community to utilize
[21:15] that service after eight o'clock, the eight o'clock until midnight, stay hall service Monday
[21:19] to Thursday, but it came with the same challenges on us not being able to provide the resources
[21:29] that were needed for the incidences that were occurring.
[21:34] We've also onboarded and Sarah's going to get into some of the anecdotal details.
[21:39] We've onboarded our two community connectors.
[21:41] These two folks are here specifically to help us
[21:47] merge our membership and the library services all in one.
[21:51] They're trained in social services and de-escalation
[21:53] and they've been onboard for a couple of weeks
[21:56] and I've had the privilege of overhearing their interactions with our membership across the spectrum
[22:02] from everything from assistance directions also with a lot of these situations that could be
[22:10] occurring. So that's been a positive experience that I'll let Sarah talk to a little bit more.
[22:15] We still implement strategic roving with our managers and our staff to ensure that the folks who
[22:22] may have nodded off our awake and doing well. This does use a lot of our resources in our time,
[22:28] but we're able to maintain this during the week and Saturdays, as well as we've implemented
[22:35] the washroom technology again to ensure that our members are safe. The technology allows us to monitor
[22:45] stillness from time to time if somebody uses in the washroom and they overdose or they pass out in
[22:50] the washroom, it gives us the ability to quickly identify and ensure that the people using
[22:55] our washroom are safe.
[22:58] That's just a quick update on some of the ongoing in this area over the last six weeks.
[23:05] I'm going to hand it over to Sarah, and maybe Sarah can give us a little context on how
[23:10] central is operating these days.
[23:14] Thanks, Trata, and thanks for the board for having me tonight.
[23:16] For those that don't know me, I'm the Manager of Information Services here at Central.
[23:20] My team is about 40 folks and then plus a few more from the different departments that
[23:26] spend some time on the information services desk and on top of that we have a peer support
[23:31] social work that comes through me as well. We do actually have the capability to help a lot
[23:40] of our members with their mental health homelessness and addiction needs through the things that Chad
[23:46] and Paul have both mentioned such as the social work program. We have peer support, so if you're not familiar with peer support work, it's through the CMHA and it's folks with lived experience.
[23:56] And what we've seen through that program is that they are able to connect with our members in a different way than myself or my staff are.
[24:04] And it offers a lot of great ways for folks to come in and have a conversation at their level.
[24:10] And it is a little bit different than, you know, coming in and speaking with a security guard.
[24:15] And we also have security guards as well that help.
[24:17] And everything that I'm talking about is a bit of a piece of a puzzle.
[24:20] That's what Chad and I always say when we're managing central.
[24:24] We also have the community partner desk that was mentioned earlier.
[24:27] There's 20 different social services that come and spend time on that desk
[24:31] and service our members in those ways as well.
[24:35] We are trying to deter the drug behavior that's happening in here, the drug use.
[24:43] That's where we really can't keep up is the drug use.
[24:46] And Chad already alluded to the things we have taken steps on, which include that washroom security enhancement.
[24:52] So the Halo sensors, we have locks on the doors when we need them.
[24:56] We're constantly patrolling them. My community connectors are checking on folks in the washrooms as well.
[25:01] so you know there's lots being done around our washrooms but even with all of
[25:07] that the issue is just greater than what we can handle so just to put a few
[25:12] stats in context and we did express this at a meeting with some of our city
[25:17] colleagues last week but in the last three lines we've administered an
[25:22] Aloxon 44 times and that was the that's what I gave last week and there's been
[25:26] seven more times since I had that meeting last week. So it is just we are administering the
[25:31] locks in quite frequently. I need to close my some of the bathrooms in this building every day for
[25:37] three reasons. There's chemical smell, biohazard, or drug paraphernalia. Every single day we need to
[25:44] close a bathroom for one of those reasons. We've had 771 security incidents and central in just the
[25:51] last five weeks. So, you know, that just kind of puts into context the the amount of use that
[25:59] is happening here. And that is with all the supports that we've kind of laid out to you
[26:03] that we're trying. We just simply can't can't keep up with it.
[26:09] Chad, is there anything else you want me to touch on?
[26:13] No, I do a quick roundtable if there were any questions or feedback that Sarah, myself, or Paul
[26:19] could answer we'd be happy to. Thank you, Sarah.
[26:22] I think Chad, Paul and Sarah, before we move on to questions, I just wanted to add, I'm
[26:28] glad Sarah brought up the statistics and the meeting we had with our partners.
[26:33] I think presenting those statistics to our partners around the table really was eye opening
[26:38] for everybody to put into context how dire the situation is right now and really that we
[26:46] wouldn't be taking these extraordinary measures unless we had to.
[26:51] And I think it's really important to note that our first primary goal is to ensure staff
[26:58] and patrons safety and security.
[27:00] So I just want to say thank you so much for all the work you're all doing at Central.
[27:05] It really is great.
[27:06] If you take a walk around with Sarah and Chad and they show you all the security measures,
[27:10] you can see that there's a lot being done.
[27:13] It's just unfortunate that although there's a lot of action being taken and a lot of quick
[27:17] action being taken by the team, there's still a lot of these incidents that are taking place on a
[27:22] daily basis. So I just want to make sure that that doesn't go unnoticed that the team is doing
[27:28] great work, ensuring the safety and security of everybody who walks through those doors. So thank you.
[27:34] So I will open it up for any questions that there might be. You want to just put up your raised
[27:40] and I'll come to you.
[27:43] Dana, I see your physical hand.
[27:46] Well, it's easier for me to thank you.
[27:48] Yeah.
[27:48] Okay.
[27:49] Thank you.
[27:50] Thank you very much.
[27:52] Paul, Sarah, and Chad, and, of course,
[27:55] echo what Gaga was saying in terms of the work that you're all doing
[27:59] and how committed you are to trying to do all of these countless things all at once.
[28:05] Paul, I know that you mentioned at the beginning of your conversation,
[28:10] that different library organizations are doing other things to sort of advocate around
[28:18] housing mental health and the like. I guess my one question was whether or not
[28:23] is the OLA or is there a Canadian, a federal level program? Do we ever advocate for things around
[28:31] the restoration of safe injection sites? I mean it's front me in terms of the timing
[28:38] this sort of increase, or at least things having been exacerbated. I can't imagine that it's not somehow connected to the elimination of safe injection sites.
[28:48] I appreciate that that doesn't get to sort of the on the ground stuff right away, but I want to get a sense of both the macro and the micro.
[28:54] So do we ever do that? Or is there a is there a library association level that advocates for that sort of thing?
[29:00] So, well, Sarah, if Board Chair, if it's okay, I'll just answer briefly, and then, so
[29:08] Sarah is actually the Vice President.
[29:10] Congratulations, Sarah, of the Ontario Library Association.
[29:13] It's the largest library association in Canada, and then the OLA along with the Federation
[29:21] of Ontario Public Libraries, and Hamilton Public Libraries, a member, are advocating for
[29:28] these issues. The Canadian Federation of Library Associations at the national level, which
[29:36] is also doing that. I think, you know, just to be honest, I think what we're seeing right now
[29:45] from the current Ontario government, you know, to expect there's going to be a change around
[29:54] and their policy, we don't see that.
[30:00] Emerging, at least, I don't know, is that realistic that that's going to happen? It's not that we agree with the government's choice in this matter, but we have to deal with the reality that we're dealing with. And I think, to be honest, we become a de facto, same consumption site. And I don't think it helps that, you know, some people are saying, well, the library should become a safe consumer.
[30:29] section site. We're a public library and we're trying to serve and I think what people
[30:40] also confuse. So anyway, you know, I guess that's the answer to your question. And, you
[30:46] know, we've seen the situation really become a lot more difficult post-pandemic as other
[30:58] communities have. And so, like I guess that's the other thing is the situation we're dealing
[31:06] in Hamilton is not unique. And one of the things that I found out a couple of years ago
[31:12] is that for the first time a lot of small, smaller Ontario towns across the province are starting
[31:22] to see these issues that they had no previous experience with.
[31:27] So, we've been trying to share as much as we can because, unfortunately, we have a little
[31:32] bit more experience in this area, you know, being in downtown Hamilton.
[31:38] So, you know, I think the thing is, those efforts need to continue, but we need to deal with
[31:45] the reality we have before us.
[31:48] And, you know, I'm just a quick follow-up question, sorry, if I may, go ahead.
[31:55] Do we ever try to get MPPs or just get somebody in the building to say, look, I just don't
[32:10] know how much direct first-hand exposure some of our representatives really have to sort
[32:19] of understand exactly what the extent of the crisis is and what it looks like on the
[32:24] floor day after day after day and I don't know exactly what our role is relative to navigating
[32:33] some of those political considerations, but as long as it's merely sort of conceptual
[32:38] for some people, I mean, I don't know how you penetrate that. I mean, I'm not naive in terms
[32:44] of the likelihood of making progress as you described it. I completely understand that dynamic,
[32:49] But I'm just sort of trying to figure out, you know, where's the point of entry to try to actually penetrate some of that so that somebody was some decision-making capacity can sort of appreciate exactly how bad things are.
[33:09] Yeah, if I could just answer that chair and then I think there's another question.
[33:15] And so certainly, we've had MPPs have we reached out over the last two months to get awareness
[33:23] of this from local MPPs.
[33:26] We have not, and we can certainly follow up with that.
[33:30] I think, so we can follow up.
[33:34] I think we need to remind ourselves, and just in terms of realism here,
[33:42] I joined the Canadian
[33:44] Ontario Public Library, where were libraries in 1999. I worked in New York. When I came here,
[33:52] libraries were still grappling with the 1995 cuts to the public library operating grant that
[33:59] happened. There has been a concerted effort both at the political level, ministry level,
[34:09] Since mid-2000s, if not before, to try to get a correction or a redress to the problems
[34:20] with the plug, to date, what is this, 2026, our public library operating grant has changed
[34:29] exactly zero cents in that time.
[34:34] and so I think that's the reality that we have to deal with. Certainly, can we change that reality?
[34:43] Well, we can participate with others to make a case, but I guess the thing is, in terms of how much of a priority that the provincial government is giving libraries,
[34:58] I think one of the things we have been trying to remind them is all communities across
[35:04] the province benefit from public libraries, and we work together with rural, northern
[35:10] libraries.
[35:11] And so, you know, the story isn't that different in some of the more rural constituencies that
[35:17] maybe are more represented by the current government.
[35:19] Yeah,
[35:23] 2026. We're still waiting for that new investment anyway. Thank you.
[35:31] Thanks, Paul. Thanks, Dana for your questions. Just wanted to echo to that at OLS, the conference,
[35:38] this past month. Safety and security, especially in those downtown libraries, was a big,
[35:44] big topic of discussion that came up at, you know, every time slot. So it is something
[35:50] I agree with Paul that everybody's dealing with and it's really on top of mind for everyone.
[35:55] But just as Paul was saying, I think we're in a bit of a unique situation because of where
[36:00] we are and anyhow, Kojo, go ahead.
[36:08] Yeah, thank you, Chad and Paul and Sarah for the update. I have to request this. I'll try
[36:15] get through them. So thank you for the statistics. So my question would be, if you have the statistics
[36:25] for Sunday, and what is the main reason for the closing on Sundays, is it related to staff
[36:34] complement versus their amount of incidents that are happening? So that's the first question.
[36:42] And then the second question would be, so if things continue on this trajectory, how
[36:52] does that impact other days, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday in
[37:01] terms of our ability to respond?
[37:03] And if our operational response is closure, what does that do as a public service?
[37:14] And then my third one, I think Dana mentioned it, but maybe I will push it forward a little
[37:22] bit and say that is it possible for through our chair to request a meeting with all MPPs
[37:34] in Hamilton to come to the library and literally see what we are going through, right?
[37:43] Some of us utilize Central a lot so we see these things.
[37:48] So for me, I think maybe we've got into a point where now, as a board senior leadership,
[37:56] we need to pen a letter to all MPPs in Hamilton, five of them, and say, hey, we would like
[38:04] for you to come and see what we are dealing with.
[38:09] We have two counsellors on here, and maybe we could also request that some of the counsellors
[38:16] and mayor also attend that talk because I think we are being asked to hold the
[38:26] bedding or something that is social and that has not been addressed politically so
[38:32] I think it's time for us now to invite them into our personal
[38:38] So I think those are my questions, and I'll listen.
[38:43] Board Chair is okay, and so in regards to Sundays,
[38:48] there's two primary issues.
[38:50] So in terms of numbers, and we have those,
[38:53] I don't know what they are on the top of my head,
[38:55] but we had a number of serious incidents
[38:59] and drug related on Sundays over the last few weeks.
[39:04] So, there's two things we noticed that from personal observation coming in on Sundays.
[39:10] One is the normal and whether I think that whether you agree with it or not on the people
[39:21] that are moving the campments along, and that's all it's really doing, but it is moving it,
[39:29] so that's not happening.
[39:31] So people coming into the library, there's people sleeping and basically have set up
[39:38] encampments and are consuming drugs along your boulevard and we're getting complaints
[39:44] from people that as they're smelling the people are smoking right near the entrance.
[39:49] So that was happening.
[39:52] So and we realize we've never had a problem with Sundays in the past in terms of it's always
[39:59] been specially staffed. So we need to look at that and we will look at that. I know we've been
[40:07] sort of dealing with the budget issues and trying to come to terms with that. So the thing is
[40:14] so we still have to put in more supports and I know last week we had the community connectors
[40:19] there on Saturday and it worked very well. So we are looking at what additional supports we can
[40:25] internally put. But I guess I would put it to, like, do you want people to come into the library
[40:33] to have to, in a sense, witness open drug use and as they're walking through the library,
[40:43] that's what if there's not other supports. So we're not, like we don't have responsibility or authority
[40:49] to take care of York Boulevard and not to mention garbage and other things that are there.
[40:58] It's not a very welcoming environment and people are upset that they are having to experience that.
[41:07] So those are the two things we need to address and we're trying to see what kind of extra supports can be put to bear to help with the situation on York Boulevard.
[41:17] And so the decision to close was not done lightly, but it was done because you know an
[41:28] acknowledgement that we're in the crisis.
[41:30] Now your second question about impact for other days, I'd just like to remind this
[41:36] board, back in 2022 and 2023, we went through a whole deal of work restructuring basically
[41:48] rebalancing our staff around the system so we could add 300 hours or more of
[41:54] library service every week. We don't have closed days anymore. We have more
[41:59] standard service. We have expanded study halls so like our solution has been one
[42:09] of access, okay? We open at 8 o'clock on, you know, and back in 23, I believe it was, so that
[42:20] people would have placed a count to in the morning and that worked okay. I guess what we're kind
[42:26] of saying to others is can someone else be helping before 9 o'clock so that we can welcome people to
[42:33] a good environment. So, you know, like, are we planning to close any more days? You know,
[42:41] like, that's not in the... You know, if... And just to be clear, if we thought that this
[42:50] was going to be necessary at the December board meeting, we would have had a full discussion
[42:55] about this. I don't think we mentioned it because we weren't expecting us to be in a deteriorating
[43:03] situation. And I think, you know, the problem in some ways or to be clear, the problem
[43:10] is not necessarily with people that have mental health or addiction problems. Okay? The problem
[43:18] is in the cold weather, there's people who have no understanding or experience navigating
[43:28] the library and understanding what it is to respect the place and respect the other people in
[43:34] there. So they're coming in and you know we we do I think to see this people if they can't get
[43:41] used in the washing they'll smoke fentanyl inside the library like and then we ask them to leave
[43:50] and they're back the next day doing the same thing and and and so like like there is I you know
[43:56] And I know it's non-intentional on their part, but there is no respect being given for the rights of anyone else.
[44:08] Okay. And, you know, the other day we had someone, we've had people defecating in front of the library people, you know, peeing inside the library in front of other people.
[44:19] I'm sorry that that's not acceptable behavior and that's what we've been experiencing.
[44:30] And look, if there's a urgency to this, we've been through this for so long that, and
[44:38] you know what, I think the one thing that has worked well for us is how many libraries
[44:43] an Ontario have a peer support worker program, have a social worker program, have all the
[44:50] things that we've done, have the community connectors, have the step system because we've
[44:58] been addressing this week.
[45:00] With what we can control, okay, and we've been doing everything we can. But doing all those
[45:06] things, it clearly are not sufficient to manage the current environment. And there are some
[45:15] people who think it's okay to come in and maybe they don't have other options, but they're
[45:21] coming into the library and they're getting drugs and using drugs. Some people are coming
[45:27] in distributing drugs. So you would residents want some disturbing fentanyl right by the children's
[45:35] area? I don't think people would expect us not to allow that kind of thing to go on. And
[45:46] I spent five years in New York City, five years in the Bronx. I'm kind of flexed. I saw a lot of
[45:54] of there, I perplexed that what we're having to experience right now at the Central Library.
[46:01] You know shocked, maybe it's the right word.
[46:06] Okay, thanks, Paul.
[46:07] The answer, I think, code is two questions, then there was one question about these.
[46:10] You'll follow up with the other one.
[46:12] I think that's a great idea about the MPPs, and I appreciate that suggestion, and I think
[46:18] I'm assuming no one's going to object to that.
[46:20] But, you know, it can't hurt any of that suggestion.
[46:25] So we'll follow up with engaging with the FPs, and we will also work with Councilor Cretch
[46:31] and Councilor McMacon on addressing the, seeing what kind of engagement we can do with
[46:38] the, with the ability of the Councilors.
[46:44] Okay.
[46:45] Thank you.
[46:45] Thanks, Kodjo, for your questions.
[46:48] Carly Eisler, hand next.
[46:50] Thank you.
[46:52] Thank you for this update, Paul Chad and Sara,
[46:56] really for your steadfast dedication to the city
[47:00] and to the people living here.
[47:03] I mean, our challenge is holding these two truths
[47:06] that addiction and houselessness are structural injustices.
[47:11] but that our libraries also must be important and safe places for everyone.
[47:18] And I think as we navigate these tensions, libraries, other spaces,
[47:23] I mean we're sort of caught in that.
[47:26] So I just so value working with all of you, knowing that you're holding the burden of these two truths so closely.
[47:34] I appreciate that my fellow board members have asked maybe more macro level questions,
[47:39] but if I may I want to just zoom in a little bit because I think there's an important piece here.
[47:47] And I don't recall if we've discussed this before and maybe we have, but we often talk about one
[47:52] of the impacts of the behaviors in the library as being a decrease in uptake of the children's area.
[48:02] So families and children being less likely to frequent these places.
[48:06] So my question is, is with this decrease at central, have we seen an increase in other locations as in are we remaining engaged with or are people remaining engaged with the library system?
[48:24] Or are we losing folks and potentially permanently?
[48:28] That's a great question. Paul, I don't know if you can answer that and maybe just speak
[48:33] to also the stats. I know Sarah mentioned the stats on Central, but there were also the
[48:37] other branches indicated as well.
[48:40] Sorry. If I could just put in later, we're going to be receiving the metrics report so we
[48:45] can look at that, whether that breaks that down adequately. I don't think it will ask
[48:51] be clear from that. What I would say is that we're not having the same problems at other
[49:00] branches that we're having at central or other locations. But I would say that none of this
[49:08] conversation about this is necessarily helpful for engaging more people in the library.
[49:20] And I'm
[49:21] hear things and people equate one and make it three sometimes, you know. And so like,
[49:28] you know, is we, you know, we do need to, we're looking at different ways that by branch by branch,
[49:35] we can track both. We have the numbers, but we really need to look at branch by branch,
[49:41] how are we doing with all the different demographic groups, especially, say, youth. And I think,
[49:47] And you know, there's widespread acknowledgement, but the pandemic had the broad implications
[49:53] in some ways had the biggest impact on young people in terms of their social and educational
[49:59] development.
[50:01] So we should be really focusing on that as a library system, you know, in terms of supporting
[50:10] teams in youth.
[50:12] So I think we're going to have to explore that question together over the next little while,
[50:20] but it's worth having because there are some sort of mega trends that, you know, we
[50:27] have to, that aren't necessarily supportive of more engagement.
[50:31] Although we see more members than we've had in probably 15 years right now, so there
[50:37] There is engagement there, but where are the gaps and who are the gaps?
[50:46] Thank you.
[50:47] Thank you, Paul.
[50:49] Okay.
[50:50] I think Brie was next.
[50:52] Hi.
[50:53] Thank you.
[50:54] My question is and very appreciative of this conversation and everything that's being said.
[51:01] I was wondering if we could hear a little bit more about the impacts of the current situation
[51:07] with staff because if there is this many instance reports, are they being like directed at staff or
[51:15] staff being impacted just around that piece? I think often we talk about the patrons, which is
[51:21] really important, but the staff are also important and I'd like to hear a bit about that. Thank you.
[51:28] Thanks, Priya. Paul, I don't know if you were. Well, maybe Sarah would be most qualified because she's
[51:34] directly working or supporting this frontline staff here and I think it's taken a lot of work
[51:42] you know and anyway so it'll be Sarah can answer that. Yeah thanks Paul and I appreciate
[51:48] everybody you know you know saying the goodwill of all the great work that we're doing here but I
[51:53] should have said earlier like a lot of this because of the staff that I have you know and it's I know
[51:59] So this discussion is mostly bad news, but there is a lot of good news here and a lot of
[52:04] it happens between the interactions between my staff and the members they're serving.
[52:09] And anecdotally to like a lot of our programs here, especially like our adult programs, those
[52:14] author talks or those, you know, the events that you're coming to hear like a lecture are
[52:19] well attended.
[52:20] So there is still like a very much an opportunity for folks in our community to come and you
[52:25] know, attend something in person because I see the numbers there, you know, and tomorrow
[52:30] we're trying to make use of the Olympics as a positive thing like we were showing the
[52:34] semifinals today on the big screen TV with like 20 member, 20 library members and staff
[52:38] all sort of cheering.
[52:39] It was a one day where I heard yells in the library and I was like, those are good yells
[52:44] because we won that game.
[52:47] Tomorrow too, we're hosting the gold medal game for the women's on the fourth floor.
[52:51] I invite you all to come to that if you're available.
[52:54] But on the flip side of that, yes, staff do certainly struggle with, you know, what they're seeing on the floors.
[53:01] In terms of Narcan administration, my staff are not required to have first aid training on the desk, but the security guards are the first aiders.
[53:09] So they're the ones that are generally responding to, you know, suspected overdose and who are administering Narcan.
[53:16] The community connectors will are eventually going to be doing that too.
[53:19] I'm just ensuring that they have some good Narcan training before I say like that that's something that you can be doing as well
[53:26] So that being said
[53:29] You know, it is hard helping someone on a printer and you know, there's something happening
[53:34] And you know the the member in front of you still needs their prints
[53:37] So my staff do a lot of like good work in managing and triaging those situations
[53:42] Other things we're doing too is I regularly check in with staff to see how they're doing
[53:47] We have, you know, bi-weekly meetings where sort of like a town hall where we invite staff
[53:53] from my department and the other departments to come and we will problem solve sometimes
[53:57] things that, you know, members that we're having a difficult time with that aren't necessarily
[54:01] like at a place of suspension, just, you know, we need to serve them a little bit differently.
[54:06] So yeah, those are the things that we're dealing with.
[54:09] My team is like very strong, but they certainly suffer from the sorrow that they see that
[54:16] that happens here, but a lot of them have a lot of great and they show up to their jobs
[54:21] every day and do great work. I hope that answers your question.
[54:28] Thanks, thanks Sarah for that answer and I think it goes without saying that we really appreciate
[54:32] the hard work that you and the frontline staff do every single day and they're doing great work, so
[54:38] so thank you for your leadership there. Allison?
[54:44] Yeah so I just wanted to echo what
[54:45] brief said and I think just a comment as we continue to have these discussions about this is
[54:51] that I do think we need to highlight specifically as part of the conversation the impact on the staff
[54:58] and I appreciate that you know we're very much concerned about again about the impact on our users
[55:04] but our staff, our primary resource I think making sure that bring that information up front
[55:12] as part of a conversation would be really, really great.
[55:15] So we're keeping that as one of our primary thoughts.
[55:18] But thank you very much for all the work that you've been doing.
[55:21] So I know this is incredibly, incredibly difficult.
[55:26] So hopefully we'll be able to continue to pull through,
[55:29] but just having a little library in myself,
[55:32] I just know how absolutely devastating it is
[55:35] when you're not able to kind of perform the services
[55:37] that you want to perform.
[55:39] And you're dealing with these crises
[55:40] is that, you know, you didn't train for in library school, so thank you.
[55:45] Thanks, Allison, Dana.
[55:53] Thank you, Gorgon.
[55:55] Yeah, I have some concerns as well, sort of connected with the impact on staff.
[56:03] And I don't know that those who sort of look at this issue sort of appreciate how it can affect sort of other connections and other relationships.
[56:14] I don't want to over extrapolate, but as I was listening to this, I was struck by there
[56:19] was a piece at the OLA super conference where it was largely some front-level staff, if
[56:27] you will, who were talking about some results of surveys that had been done in different systems.
[56:33] One of the observations that was made is that levels of trust by staff of their organizations
[56:41] are lower significantly lower in really large systems.
[56:47] And I appreciate very much that Hamilton historically has
[56:52] a positive labor management relationship.
[56:56] But, you know, I guess what I'm sensitive to is that
[56:59] as Allison said, I mean, folks are doing stuff
[57:02] that they weren't trained to do nor that they were expected
[57:06] to be doing.
[57:08] And it's inevitable that at some point,
[57:10] This is going to have impacts, I think, on sort of employee relations issues.
[57:17] I mean, to what extent are my grievances begin to increase or have a sort of a work refusal
[57:26] because circumstances are unsafe.
[57:29] So it has all kinds of tentacles, if you will, that have other impacts on the library's
[57:35] ability to function and, frankly, on financial considerations.
[57:40] And then I'm also struck by how some of what's happening largely at Central and Barton,
[57:49] you know, I'm thinking those are in parts of the city that arguably are sort of less economically
[57:54] advantage than other areas.
[57:56] And so it's sort of compounding the disadvantage that folks who live in those neighborhoods
[58:02] for whom the library is so important in the first instance and it lands sort of more significantly
[58:09] on all of them.
[58:14] I'm going stream of consciousness again as is my won't.
[58:18] And I'm thinking that, you know, it's great that we have implemented so many things and are doing
[58:23] really well, but we shouldn't be the solution to these things either. You know, the more effective
[58:29] of we are, the more perhaps somebody
[58:33] sort of perceives that, well, you know,
[58:34] the library's doing a really great job
[58:36] in managing all of this.
[58:37] So, you know, keep up the good work.
[58:39] Well, that's not a solution.
[58:41] So those were sort of the three things
[58:42] that I was thinking about.
[58:43] The consideration on staff and labor management relationships,
[58:47] the issue as it relates to sort of other groups
[58:50] who typically frequent the branches
[58:53] that are most adversely affected by this
[58:55] and how we're ultimately perhaps victims of the success that some of these initiatives have had
[59:03] and that sort of hides or masks the nature of the issue. So I just wanted to make those comments.
[59:09] Thank you, Goggin. If I could just very briefly, Goggin, and like I'm mindful of the time,
[59:14] but I just to remind everyone, if you remember, when we just had our new four-year collective agreement
[59:21] that ratified and our lawyer reported to the board because she's involved in other negotiations
[59:32] off of with QP that there was, we were able to come to a lot of mutual agreement on
[59:42] a whole bunch of things because the trust is high.
[59:46] And what I would say is how I view it, if we're doing our job as a library, we are going
[59:54] to naturally feel all the good things or blessings that I have.
[1:00:00] What happened in the neighbourhoods are branches exist, and we're also going to feel the challenges
[1:00:06] if we're doing our job. And I think what's, you know, so in a sense we don't choose the
[1:00:13] community that we live in. The community is the community we are here to try to help
[1:00:19] advance together. And I think where we find ourselves. So I guess what I would say is our strategy
[1:00:26] has been to do everything in our ability and capacity to take action and not to, say,
[1:00:36] labeling or wait for the province or someone else to solve our problems.
[1:00:46] You know, and I really appreciate the board support back in 2014 when I asked for support
[1:00:51] to implement a social worker program.
[1:00:55] The board supported us using funds for doing that.
[1:00:58] The same happened back when we're reestablishing the,
[1:01:01] so the board has always been supportive
[1:01:04] of these interventions.
[1:01:06] And there's a reason why we have them
[1:01:11] and not many, some do, but many other libraries don't.
[1:01:15] It's because they're waiting for someone else to do it.
[1:01:17] And I think the Hamilton Public Library is a long history of innovation, of doing what we can.
[1:01:26] That's what I love about the Hamilton Public Library.
[1:01:30] And I think, so do I agree with you that this has a cumulative impact?
[1:01:38] Absolutely.
[1:01:40] And I think we also need to understand, doesn't just impact the frontline staff.
[1:01:45] It impacts all of us and, you know, what I've said before too is that, you know, it's we
[1:01:55] can deal with anything if we're together, if we stick together.
[1:01:59] But sometimes the stress of these situations causes people to, you know, where people are
[1:02:07] expressing their frustration at other members of the team.
[1:02:11] And while that may not be helpful, it's probably inevitable to certain extent.
[1:02:18] So we're trying to do everything we can, but it's a fair, you know, it's a fair comment.
[1:02:24] I think our goal here, we've seen the downtown renew.
[1:02:28] I don't see five years from now, we're going to be dealing with the same level of crisis
[1:02:32] that we're dealing with now, God, help us if we are.
[1:02:35] I don't see that, but we're responding to the situation that we currently have
[1:02:42] before us. Would we rather spend, and I think this is something that we try to
[1:02:48] talk about at the budget, there's a lot of things that we need to be working on to
[1:02:53] advance our role as a library, but it's hard for me to say work on the board
[1:02:59] by-laws when there's multiple people overdosing in our space, and I think one of
[1:03:05] the things that I appreciated that I think Sarah has led the way on for us is that all hands-on
[1:03:11] deck. And it takes a lot of effort, but at least we're feeling like we're showing, I guess,
[1:03:17] mutual solidarity or support for each other so that because it's not so much what happens is how
[1:03:24] we react to it. But yeah, it's not good for, you know, like it is putting staff challenges. Maybe
[1:03:32] one other thing and I think in some ways we're going to be seeing new kinds of maybe live people
[1:03:38] coming into libraries in the future. I was talking to one of my staff member today. He had been
[1:03:44] going into disrupt drug consumption in a couple of different libraries. We're talking a lot's
[1:03:51] going on today. You know and I'm saying well I'm sorry that you know we have to deal with this.
[1:03:55] And he said to me well actually that's why I became a librarian because I see libraries as one
[1:04:01] places making difference in people's lives and so that's why I'm here so I'm not you know
[1:04:09] I and I think Sarah spoke to the strength of a lot of our staff but you know it's like
[1:04:16] I think as we move forward we need to be very in terms of recruitment and in terms of getting people
[1:04:23] people know it need to know what's happening in you know where you're going and we've been trying
[1:04:29] to do that and also support people if they need to take a couple of months break off of
[1:04:34] central. Sometimes that's needed. So, you know, that work is going to continue. Thank you.
[1:04:42] Thanks, Paul. Okay, Councillor Cretch.
[1:04:49] Thanks very much. Can I see your hat? I'll come through a rupture.
[1:04:52] All right.
[1:04:55] Thanks very much, again. I don't want to repeat the things that were said and I think
[1:04:58] people have acknowledged that our staff are doing good work and people are coming to the library
[1:05:02] because they feel they can get help, they feel safe at the library, and that's a good thing.
[1:05:06] We want that safe, if you do be something that everyone in our community can access and be
[1:05:12] part of. So I think that's something everyone's agreed with and we all understand what we're coming
[1:05:15] from. I think I also want to acknowledge that when we're talking about these different crises
[1:05:20] that have occurred in the library and different things that are happening, I don't think anyone
[1:05:23] also thinks the library is responsible for what's happening. So I think if there's any sense of
[1:05:27] defensiveness from anybody or anyone's worried that the library's being come after, the answer is no,
[1:05:31] they're not being. People understand the library is in a position where they're not necessarily
[1:05:37] providing all the different services that are needed in a required library. Also to say that
[1:05:43] I can't overemphasize enough the situation with respect to what has happened in the downtown
[1:05:49] core. And so we've seen the Wesley Day Center close. We've seen mission services leave the immediate
[1:05:55] downtown core. We've seen St. Paul's Presbyterian Church which was offering some services through
[1:06:01] there for safe consumption. We've seen other services leave the core. So we've seen between
[1:06:06] three and six different services in the last four to five years, especially in relation
[1:06:10] to the pandemic, leave the core. People depended on those services. They don't have them
[1:06:13] anymore. So people are going to continue to congregate in around the downtown core and still
[1:06:21] need those services and the branch of government will not allow them legally to be provided.
[1:06:30] They've
[1:06:31] So that's something to be thought about by the city for sure in terms of the kinds of services that are needed, but also I really want to emphasize when you're telling a group of individuals, you are not allowed to use drugs indoors, anywhere, you're not allowed to use drugs outdoors.
[1:06:45] Anywhere, people are going to continue to use drugs and that is the issue here. And as people continue to use drugs and we have no safe spaces for them to be those provincial legislation pushes people into parks, pushes people into public spaces.
[1:06:58] pushes people up to the open to use drugs and you know the city has once was a
[1:07:04] very affordable place there were a lot of I would say buildings around that
[1:07:07] were not commodified that people kind of hang out in certain parts of the city in
[1:07:11] terms of not being observed not being approached not being you know those kinds of
[1:07:14] things if they were using drugs that's not the case since 2016 or so where most
[1:07:18] the property here has been heavily commodified by the private financial housing
[1:07:22] market and everything has an extreme value now as opposed to what I have before and
[1:07:27] And everyone's concerned about their property value.
[1:07:29] And so as a result, people are watching, looking, paying more attention.
[1:07:33] And this kind of, again, pushing people out to places.
[1:07:35] So you've got people, basically, with no place to go, who are being told nothing, with respect
[1:07:40] to where they can go.
[1:07:41] And it's falling to places like the library, Arts of James Street North, the intersection
[1:07:47] of Jackson and McNabb, parts of Jackson Square, those are the four or so concentrations
[1:07:52] of places where people have found.
[1:07:54] And the city, I'm going to say this, by abdicating its responsibility by kind of just getting
[1:08:00] a rid of the encampment protocol and not necessarily finding a replacement for it, what happened
[1:08:03] when that moment was, right?
[1:08:06] We told people, we're not going to tell you where you can go.
[1:08:11] When people in our society have to ask a question, where am I permitted to exist, right?
[1:08:15] We have failed them.
[1:08:17] So that's the core what's going on here is people are being told, they're not permitted
[1:08:21] to exist in any kind of space.
[1:08:23] And, you know, we all don't, that shelter don't work for everyone, and there's good reasons for that.
[1:08:27] We all acknowledge that it's not possible for people to find shelter space for housing.
[1:08:30] And it's because one random shelter bed is open for half an hour on a Tuesday.
[1:08:35] It doesn't mean that we suddenly have a supply of shelter spaces for people.
[1:08:38] That's not how it works, right?
[1:08:40] We don't have the adequate supplies and services for folks.
[1:08:42] We don't have the,
[1:08:46] and so I think it's important that we're thoughtful about that.
[1:08:50] And, you know, I'm looking for a response from staff.
[1:08:51] Just wanted to say that I appreciate what the library is doing, and the library continues to do.
[1:08:54] So I think this issue is much bigger than the library.
[1:08:59] Thank you, Councillor Faire, comments there, Councillor McMeikin.
[1:09:03] Do you want me to read the comments that you put in the chat?
[1:09:06] No, I'll make the comments.
[1:09:07] Okay.
[1:09:08] Okay.
[1:09:09] I appreciate this, this is a tough, obviously a tough discussion.
[1:09:14] I appreciate the comments, Evan made the point about police and some of the difficulties
[1:09:24] and I'm generally sympathetic with that, but there are some behaviors that simply cannot
[1:09:28] be tolerated if particularly if they're scaring all the families and kids away from the library.
[1:09:37] So there are going to be times when we have to make some tough decisions there.
[1:09:42] The other question I was going to ask, and I think Cameron's Council crutches probably
[1:09:48] provided enough background that it's difficult. The answer is, you know, is there an alternative
[1:09:54] meeting spot? I'm welcoming spot somewhere in the core. It used to be, I remember, I don't know
[1:10:05] Councillor Cretz knows I don't know the inner city anywhere near as well as he does. He doesn't
[1:10:11] award 15 as well as I do so the reality is of the few occasions when I'm
[1:10:19] downtown I've seen in the past people around Phil Pot Church I don't think
[1:10:24] that gathering spot is as active anymore so it's a combination of behavior
[1:10:32] and vocation and you know we got to deal with the cards we've dealt not the
[1:10:38] cards we wish the province would give us or I spoke to that, but in very practical
[1:10:44] terms, we have to, if we're going to be a welcoming spot, and I think that's what
[1:10:51] I'm hearing with competent, hardworking, dedicated, thoughtful staff, that's got to have some,
[1:11:00] that's got to have some parameters that are not tolerable.
[1:11:03] And the other thing is there's some way we could find some alternative space there.
[1:11:09] I don't know. I mean, I agree with Cameron and I were on the same boat around not ending the encampment protocol.
[1:11:16] And even now with the Tiffany Barton, we get the comment from the housing team that it's probably notwithstanding the expense of it all.
[1:11:25] and some of the problems, 23 people transitioned to permanent housing, and then five minutes later they say,
[1:11:35] and we're going to close it by the end of the year.
[1:11:37] Well, you know, we close that site up, it's just going to exacerbate the problem.
[1:11:41] You know, good shepherds doing the best they can down there.
[1:11:45] But we need to find an alternate spot where people can access.
[1:11:52] is somehow even if it's library staff venturing out somewhere or the city making some kind
[1:12:01] of fiscal commitment to support and Councilor Cretch would know if there were any possibilities
[1:12:10] or maybe it's a big tent somewhere, a warming tent and a local parking lot near the library.
[1:12:18] But we want to be welcoming, we want to be helpful, and I think we're doing all we can.
[1:12:24] But we don't want to exacerbate what's emerging as an inter-arble situation in terms
[1:12:33] of our basic clientele using the library.
[1:12:38] I get a four-year-old grandson, you know, who goes to another library and he's not into – doesn't
[1:12:45] go into the central library with his mom.
[1:12:47] I don't know what it is by choice or what, but my hunch is that, you know, if enough people
[1:12:54] stop avoiding the library, we'll have even bigger problems than ones we've got now.
[1:12:59] Anyway, those are comments for what they're worth, and if we can find some way forward
[1:13:04] with it, Councillor Critch and I are all in, whatever we can do to help.
[1:13:11] The idea of the MPP meeting, I think, is also a good start.
[1:13:15] And you know, those are my comments.
[1:13:18] Thanks, Councillor Meakne.
[1:13:20] I did see in the chat that Carly and Dana had mentioned the Cathedral Cafe is one of
[1:13:25] the options for an alternative place to go.
[1:13:27] So I'm not familiar with that area, but it is there, and I'm not sure if you or other staff
[1:13:33] can speak to alternate locations and near proximity to the library.
[1:13:39] So, when we're certainly, if we have places to refer people to, we will be doing that.
[1:13:48] I'm not sure the current individuals are having problems with whether they would be, you
[1:13:58] know, I think that I'm not sure that that would be appropriate for them either.
[1:14:01] I don't know.
[1:14:02] But can I just say just like this been a long conversation, we need to obviously we have
[1:14:07] work to do to continue to explore options. And we'll do that. We have some direction to pursue
[1:14:15] the advocacy front with counselors and with MPPs. And I think we'll continue to explore
[1:14:25] with the city and other partners, things that we could do to make a tangible difference.
[1:14:34] That was going to be my next comment being mindful of the time.
[1:14:38] Thank you everybody for your comments and passion on all of this matter.
[1:14:44] Okay, so the next item we have is acceptance of the agenda.
[1:14:49] Can I get a mover?
[1:14:50] Nick, seconder, Carly.
[1:14:53] All in favor?
[1:14:56] Okay.
[1:14:57] And we've got the minute.
[1:14:59] Let's go.
[1:15:00] From the December 10th, 2025, Hamilton Public Library Board meeting. Can I get a mover for that? Can't breathe in a seconder. Jen? Okay. Thank you. And all in favor. Any corrections or missing? Nothing. No. Okay. All in favor. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Does anybody have a declaration of conflicts?
[1:15:25] No. Okay. Presentations. We've got two.
[1:15:31] So, the first one is HPL Ward 4 Incusability Study, and we have Philip Toms here and Tyler
[1:15:39] Malone and Holly Ford.
[1:15:41] Can I get a mover to put that on the floor?
[1:15:45] Koto and Carly's seconder.
[1:15:48] Thank you.
[1:15:50] Okay.
[1:15:50] You can go ahead.
[1:15:52] Thank you, Chair.
[1:15:53] I'm going to take a minute to introduce Tyler Malone and Philip Toms from Toms McNally,
[1:15:59] as well as Holly Ford, who is a key partner of ours.
[1:16:04] She's a project manager with the city,
[1:16:06] and she helps us with many of the special projects
[1:16:09] and that the library commits to.
[1:16:13] Just to recap, Tom's McNally was retained to help us look
[1:16:18] at what a library would look like in Ward 14
[1:16:20] as we work with our partners in the city,
[1:16:24] both corporate real estate and all the other services
[1:16:28] and divisions like recreation as we as we try to find a location that would be suitable
[1:16:34] for a library branch. Thomas McNally took on the difficult task of helping us design
[1:16:41] a program that could resonate in the community and I think they did a great job delivering that
[1:16:51] task. And I wanted them here. I wanted them in front of the board as it does have a great,
[1:16:58] it's got a great flow into our facilities master plan as we talk about that a little bit later
[1:17:03] tonight. But I really do appreciate the work they put into this and how useful this
[1:17:09] programming study, feasibility study, will be with the library in years to come, not just with
[1:17:15] Ward 14, I feel. And before I hand it over to Tyler and Philip, I know Paul wanted a quick
[1:17:23] moment to say something here as well.
[1:17:26] No, and I just wanted to thank. We're going to hear this presentation, but I have been
[1:17:32] busy with other things. So I was reviewing the, your report. I just want to say thank you
[1:17:40] much for this work. I actually think it has a big interest for us here in Hamilton, but maybe
[1:17:48] other libraries as well. So it's a real big thank you for that. And I think we need to follow up
[1:17:55] after this about ways we can maybe have some shared presentations or have you present this.
[1:18:01] And certainly we'd like to help you increase awareness of this because it really is. I thought
[1:18:09] very thoughtful. So, I mean, maybe you could write a book about it.
[1:18:14] It's worth it anyway. I could see both Tyler, Philip, and Holly, all of them. I could see
[1:18:22] the wheel spinning as we're having these conversations, because all of them are engaged and they do
[1:18:26] understand our business and they support us in different ways. And I know that I'm going to get a call
[1:18:30] from Philip and Tyler later on to talk about probably architectural ways that we could look at
[1:18:37] at helping the current situation
[1:18:39] and where we can go from here.
[1:18:40] But without further ado,
[1:18:42] do you want us to present this, Philip,
[1:18:44] or do you have the presentation queued, ready to go?
[1:18:49] I have a queue, sorry, Philip.
[1:18:52] I'm okay.
[1:18:52] All right.
[1:18:53] I have a queue that's probably best for me to do it,
[1:18:55] just because, and I'll let Philip do the introduction
[1:18:59] to all of this, but I think it's probably best
[1:19:01] for me to flip through it.
[1:19:02] There's a lot of, it's a bit, you know, text heavy,
[1:19:05] there's graphics, there's images,
[1:19:06] it's meant to be read in both ways,
[1:19:08] but it is meant to be flipped through and read as a book, not so much a presentation, so
[1:19:14] you'll have to bear with us as we skip past some of the text and maybe flip through some pages
[1:19:20] to kind of keep us on task here and not go too far over our time.
[1:19:26] Philip, I don't know if you want
[1:19:27] to do an introductory before I jump into the sharing. A very quick introduction and it's still the
[1:19:34] jarring jumpings to this from the presentation of the discussion that just happened,
[1:19:40] where the issues are incredibly immediate and incredibly important.
[1:19:45] And this is definitely a relevant of the crystal ball looking to the future.
[1:19:50] And the call later Chad will be, you know, I don't know if there's any architectural solution to
[1:19:57] the immediate problems, but there usually is a design solution to so many problems. And
[1:20:04] the issue is space, and it was back to the immediate issue, and the Ward 14, these
[1:20:13] buildings study, which evolved into something a little bit different, and I want to thank
[1:20:17] yourself Chad and Oliver, you know, helping guide this process, which started off as a
[1:20:23] roster of assignment, you know, as part of the architects working with the city, but it
[1:20:28] definitely evolved into a programming study and a looking to the future, and a lot of
[1:20:33] as captioned in the vision statement that is part of the feasibility study, which I believe
[1:20:38] you all have copies of. Everything today is based in the documentation that we reviewed,
[1:20:49] which is part of what the board has and the library has. The facilities must plan, the asset,
[1:20:54] master plan and the library use usage study, which we went over in some detail. We also had
[1:21:03] tours of Ann Caster and Turner Park and Valley Park Library. Sorry, I'm bringing it a little
[1:21:15] bit right at the moment. And we also did our own research into local regional national and
[1:21:22] international examples so that we're not looking just at what we all know and what is familiar.
[1:21:30] I think we arrived at something where it's resonated with those library board
[1:21:36] numbers and chat and boardcaller and I think it's probably just if at any
[1:21:45] point in the presentation there's a burning question please feel free to jump
[1:21:48] in but the evolution is something where I think it's it's it holds together
[1:21:59] and it captures what we've read and researched and what you've told us.
[1:22:04] And hopefully in the end of it, it's useful in putting together some project for Ward 14.
[1:22:10] I'll let Tyler jump in.
[1:22:14] I'll jump in and I'll share my screen in a second.
[1:22:18] But just to preface all this and to build on what Chad and Paul you were saying in Philip.
[1:22:24] This is a live document we're sort of seeing in that way.
[1:22:28] there was a deliverable, there was a time we had to package it all up, but I think even
[1:22:33] the conversation in the last hour and a half is sparking new thoughts about how you can
[1:22:38] even add another 30 pages to this report.
[1:22:41] So we see it as that live growing document as the HPL team moves forward.
[1:22:49] So it was balancing both those things of exploring all possibilities and innovations and thoughts,
[1:22:55] but also ending with something that's useful and pragmatic to go forward.
[1:23:00] So as I share, you'll see the balance between those two things.
[1:23:12] If we do jump over something as quickly as we'd rather have some time at the end for question
[1:23:17] and feedback. Yeah. So I'll assume everyone can see my screen here, right?
[1:23:24] Okay. So again, I'm going to flip through some of this pretty quickly
[1:23:30] because some of these pages are text heavy, but feel free to dig through it on your own.
[1:23:36] And the way this is set up is so that you can read the text, but also, you know,
[1:23:41] it's half, almost 50-50 text, 50-50 diagrams and drawings.
[1:23:46] So it's trying to balance both of those things, moving from report heavy documents
[1:23:51] into this pre-stage before an actual project is committed to.
[1:23:56] So that's generally the whole idea of this report.
[1:24:02] I'm not going to read any of the text directly, but I think I'll read this first portion of the vision statement, just because it really captures the collective intent behind it.
[1:24:13] This study reflects a broader vision to shape the next generation of libraries,
[1:24:19] flexible, inclusive, and future-ready spaces that serve as vibrant, cultural, and educational hubs.
[1:24:25] As libraries continue to evolve, they have the opportunity to act as dynamic centers
[1:24:31] that connect people, ideas, and communities within an ever-changing social landscape.
[1:24:37] And the second part is expanding on that even further.
[1:24:40] But the idea here is that the HPL team, the broader community, ourselves, we're seeing these as such pivotal and critical spaces within the broader communities that they are regional, international and local levels.
[1:25:02] Those, that's the core statement, that's the core vision behind this exercise, but the
[1:25:08] idea is that it's building on what the HPL group already knows.
[1:25:20] So this whole initial section on background information, this is, again, pretty tech-sevy
[1:25:28] because it's all, it's summing up everything that we did to build the ideas within this.
[1:25:33] in this report. But some of those assumptions we had to make are based on conversations that
[1:25:39] we had along the way, but also just giving ourselves parameters because we were working
[1:25:44] with a design that we had to build that had no specific site, no specific location. So
[1:25:52] some of those assumptions we had to make with the team and with ourselves. So standalone library
[1:25:57] located within Ward 14 or the surrounding area, a single story building that was a requirement and an approximate size to the library and all sorts of programmatic constraints.
[1:26:10] So you'll see that emerge as we go through this presentation here.
[1:26:16] Heagles and objectives. I'll just highlight these last two here.
[1:26:20] 8 and 9. This is all critical but this sums up what we wanted to do with this report, provide a final document that has a forward thinking vision, but also provide a final document that has pragmatic utility.
[1:26:34] So, like I said, both of those things we wanted to end with a workable plan, but it's not so cemented that it's immediately becoming a project.
[1:26:43] So, playing in that in between space.
[1:26:52] So, jumping into the research analysis, all of that background information that Philips spoke to,
[1:26:57] facilities master plan, asset master plan, library use across Hamilton.
[1:27:02] We analyzed all of these documents along with more broad research and precedence that are looking at the local,
[1:27:13] looking at Hamilton but also expanding beyond that and comparing across and
[1:27:21] so a lot of that
[1:27:21] research has been summed up here as just the critical pieces that we took forward
[1:27:28] and of course highlighting that missing gap from the library use document that specifically points
[1:27:36] of the Ward 14 area.
[1:27:41] And then to end that, this all happened pretty collaboratively with
[1:27:46] the HPL team, with Chad and Holly and some of the other staff as well through the tours,
[1:27:52] which we did together, but also meeting multiple meetings where we took a lot of conversation
[1:27:58] and tried to distill it down into some clear needs that would be used to build the program.
[1:28:05] So the program spaces are informed by real need and that was the, this is the sort of initial building block to the next section.
[1:28:17] And so this section here building a program.
[1:28:20] This was critical. It's a series of just a few simple diagrams, but it's that intermediate stage going from a lot of the text and research and then getting to a plan.
[1:28:31] So I'll walk through this and the diagrams are meant to be a little bit, you know, bubbles,
[1:28:38] amorphous kind of, but it leads into the actual location of some of this program on the site.
[1:28:46] And the concept behind the color and behind the groupings here is to one graphically just carry us through the document,
[1:28:52] but also to organize the program that's related to one another.
[1:28:57] So through some iteration, we came up with facilitate, explore, learn, create, and those programs, or those groups of programs would all get circulate and connect through that gather space or, you know, social circulation space.
[1:29:18] And then from there, we broke down those groupings into even smaller actual rooms, actual spaces, and the sort of quality of those spaces.
[1:29:28] So not to dig through all of this, but it gives an idea of what each one of the bubbles
[1:30:01] And
[1:30:06] then taking it one step further, we analyzed how those would connect and what ones need to be grouped directly adjacent to one another. And then which ones need to kind of connect through that central promenade or that central gathering space that ties everything together. So again, this is very, it's vague enough so that we can think about the program without looking at a specific site or a specific floor plan.
[1:30:35] But we end that section with starting to get a little bit more refined, a little bit
[1:30:41] more programmatic blocks, and starting to now think about how this may become a floor
[1:30:47] plan and a building and something that sits on a site.
[1:30:52] And so that took us to the programmatic concept that we built.
[1:30:58] And like Philip had mentioned, this was done without a site and this was done in a way that we had to give ourselves some constraints, but not too many constraints so that it's still open-ended.
[1:31:12] But we had to make some key assumptions to get the ball rolling and get the right idea of what type of site would suit a really ideal library.
[1:31:21] And so those major things are one, a corner site along a primary corridor to a secondary corridor or a driveway that creates a corner destination parking located at the rear.
[1:31:37] Vehicle lay by and near entry and access to transit stop and bike lanes so access accessibility directly from that corner site.
[1:31:48] Allowance for a rectangular floor plan or a square shape floor plan, but something that
[1:31:53] has the ability to expand in the sort of X and Y axis on an idealia site that is shaped
[1:32:01] for a rectangular building.
[1:32:03] And then a primary corridor that's located to this self is ideal.
[1:32:08] But again, some of these are not.
[1:32:10] They're just constraints that we set up so that we could get that starting point for testing this idea.
[1:32:18] And so here's a graphic display of all those constraints.
[1:32:21] And what that would look like with these arrows representing, you know, that flexibility as this is not a completely refined program, this is an idea that could grow and expand in certain directions.
[1:32:34] So always keeping that in mind.
[1:32:36] And then
[1:32:41] on top of that, we start to layer the programs, those groups, those blocks of
[1:32:47] program, and the blocks of program are relative to one another, and within those blocks, they
[1:32:56] include all of that, those earlier bubble size programs that we grouped together.
[1:33:03] So now we're starting to layer on an actual relative size, relative to the road, the parking,
[1:33:09] and understanding what we have to work with with the sort of 12 to 13,000 square foot space.
[1:33:21] This here, this text, and the key design criteria, I will all go through in a couple more slides.
[1:33:28] We go through each one of these and explain how we're addressing this in the design.
[1:33:32] So that key criteria was set up to address and walk through.
[1:33:41] But before we get to that, I'll just explain this set of diagrams here, which I think is really...
[1:33:47] This is where we arrived at the concept, the key concept to what we're doing and why it's this rectangular shape,
[1:33:53] why we've grouped the facility to explore, learn, and create where they are,
[1:33:58] and why that sort of entrance from the front entrance from the back, where the vehicles are,
[1:34:06] why that's so critical to unify.
[1:34:10] So access, link, align.
[1:34:13] We broke this down into really simple steps.
[1:34:17] Access, having that front door entrance, having that back door entrance,
[1:34:21] so pedestrian vehicle entrance, and then grouping the different programs
[1:34:26] is the fundamental starting point, getting all those blocks in place.
[1:34:31] But it creates a circuitous space.
[1:34:34] It's not really unified.
[1:34:36] You've got long corridors.
[1:34:38] So what we did was we just took a really simple strategy and connected those zones.
[1:34:44] So you've got this main promenade.
[1:34:45] You've got this main link between the two.
[1:34:48] And now everything starts to get more related to one another.
[1:34:52] and more centralized along that promenade.
[1:34:58] But it started to make some really odd spaces,
[1:35:02] some difficulties in construction.
[1:35:05] You know, it's not the most ideal approach to start with.
[1:35:09] So taking that, we rationalized it with a grid
[1:35:12] and kept a little bit of that fluid movement throughout the space
[1:35:18] but it aligned it in a way that it's more rational against the grid and it's buildable, it's
[1:35:25] constructable and it's not veering too far off of what's realistic.
[1:35:31] So trying to balance both of those things but still achieve that communal space that we're going for
[1:35:36] and connecting those access points to the outside.
[1:35:44] And then from there the concept is, and this is just an example here of what we're thinking
[1:35:52] about, what our conversations have been about, but thinking about how the space is not
[1:35:58] just the furniture can be moved and changed in multi-use, but the actual space itself can
[1:36:04] be flexible, can rearrange to do different things and achieve different things.
[1:36:08] So that promenade space can open up into the adjacent areas and open up even into the collections, the children's, the multi-use room, the computer labs and the digital space.
[1:36:24] So thinking about that flexibility and the opportunities that this type of central promenade concept can achieve.
[1:36:33] And
[1:36:36] then we arrive at the floor plan, so layering on pieces of furniture and elements of
[1:36:41] those spaces to show, you know, an understanding of the size and the circulation, and how these
[1:36:48] components can all fit together.
[1:36:50] These are still meant to be bubbles in a way, no walls, doors, specifically, it's more
[1:36:57] just an idea of how the space is relate to one another, and how the furniture and circulation
[1:37:04] fit within it.
[1:37:07] And then ultimately that single story opens up the possibility for a larger
[1:37:14] expansive roof, which would be ideal to capitalize with solar.
[1:37:20] So really quickly here, I'm going
[1:37:22] to try to cycle through these cognizant of time. These are all those key aspects of the design
[1:37:28] that we wanted to make sure this address and that going forward every project kind of circles
[1:37:36] back to this and think, are we satisfying some of these critical components to a library?
[1:37:44] So the single story, the area that we discussed, flexibility and adaptability, so being able
[1:37:51] to grow and expand while keeping the core concept, community gathering, destination like I spoke
[1:37:59] about with the central promenade, being safe and secure, so making sure that it's not a
[1:38:06] panopticon, there's not security right in the middle, and it's staring at everyone, but
[1:38:10] there's a defined area at the entrance, and that's got clear visibility to all the areas within
[1:38:16] the library, especially the children's area, which would be right next to the offices and the reception.
[1:38:24] being a sustainable place, a sustainable building, and tech forward.
[1:38:30] So opportunities for geothermal, where there's lots of land, and definitely solar on the
[1:38:36] roof, where a one-store building has that larger roof area to capitalize on.
[1:38:45] And something maybe a little touch related to the conversation today is the idea of resilience
[1:38:51] and community resilience and being a safe of a place of refuge even during crisis
[1:38:58] and the idea that libraries are starting to serve that purpose more
[1:39:04] and they're starting to become a place of resilience and community reliability
[1:39:09] in a positive way.
[1:39:12] And so the ability for this space to open up provides space for different functions
[1:39:18] beyond just the library functions, as well as a place, if it is sustainable and tech-forward
[1:39:24] and has site-driven power, it becomes a place that can be relied on in time of prices
[1:39:32] and power outages and things like that.
[1:39:37] And like I spoke to the aligning with the grid
[1:39:40] and thinking about systematic approach and his efficient structural systems that can still
[1:39:47] work with this type of concept.
[1:39:50] Functional operations, of course, are critical, being
[1:39:53] read adjacent to the entrance, and within that consolidated block right at the reception
[1:39:59] area.
[1:40:02] And then quality of space, we expand on this a little bit further, but I'll flip
[1:40:06] through some of this a bit quicker, but just the idea of contemporary furniture, sound absorption,
[1:40:11] clear story, day lighting, and an expressive roof form with the large continuous roof and the
[1:40:18] ceiling visible. It's an opportunity to have an expressive element that anchors you and people
[1:40:26] get familiar with. The community understands it and you see it from outside, you see it from within
[1:40:31] and it can orient you within the library and it becomes much more than just a clear gypsum
[1:40:41] finished ceiling, it could become an element that actually really enhances the experience
[1:40:47] within the library.
[1:40:50] And then of course, outdoor connections, some form of entrance plaza, glazing along
[1:40:55] the perimeter, rear patio space, and then a separate children's exterior space.
[1:41:02] Breaking down the program.
[1:41:06] And then even further into elements of the program, this part I'm really going to skip through
[1:41:11] because we're getting, I think, to the end of the 20 minutes here, but we just, we took
[1:41:18] some of those precedents that Philip talked about that we had analyzed and we just, and
[1:41:24] added to our conversations with the HPL team and just really put it into each one of those areas
[1:41:29] what the qualities of space that are critical to head from furniture to all the study space
[1:41:37] is collections, things like that, so I'll scan through that, but it's an example that
[1:41:43] I think this is really the live part of the document that can be built upon in the future,
[1:41:50] so multi-use spaces, computer desks, makerspace, digital lab, that sort of thing.
[1:42:01] Then the children's area with all of the children's furniture, play structures, flexible
[1:42:06] acoustic barriers, and shelving, and then the back of house requirements, the work areas
[1:42:15] and the reception desks and things like that.
[1:42:17] So breaking down the four components of the program here.
[1:42:22] And then that brings us to the viability which we did a high level analysis, which I don't
[1:42:29] I don't have to go through the whole spreadsheet, but this is really, this is even pre-classity.
[1:42:33] This is a sort of high level taking that area and getting an idea of the cost.
[1:42:41] And then just summing up with some next steps, recommendations.
[1:42:47] Yeah, so that's the report.
[1:42:48] There's a section on the precedence.
[1:42:52] I can just flip through these.
[1:42:54] I won't talk about each one, but these are some of the key ones that we pulled out.
[1:42:58] That's a local Turner Park, Valley Park, water down, regional zooming out.
[1:43:12] So we went through each one of these and dug into the details, but then just pulled out
[1:43:16] some key information.
[1:43:18] So still regional Toronto,
[1:43:22] Scarborough, and then zooming further out to more national precedents
[1:43:31] from out west,
[1:43:35] watch it all, and then more international examples,
[1:43:49] and that's it.
[1:43:53] So I can, from here, I can flip back to any pages, or I can drop the screen share and
[1:43:57] we can answer questions, I'm not sure.
[1:44:02] Okay, thank you to your whole team for that presentation, and I think everybody on the board has
[1:44:08] a copy of the presentation materials as well.
[1:44:11] they want to go into anything more in-depth. I believe Cali sent it out. Just being cognizant
[1:44:16] of time, I'll go to questions now, but let's try to make it quick so we can get through this agenda.
[1:44:24] Nick, go ahead.
[1:44:28] Yes, this is a comprehensive report. There's a lot to dig through and we were given
[1:44:34] this presentation a copy of it yesterday that had not allowed board members to have the time to dig
[1:44:42] again and digest it properly to ask and form questions.
[1:44:47] So once we have gone through this presentation in detail,
[1:44:52] will there be an opportunity to ask the design team
[1:44:58] more fitting questions?
[1:45:00] If I could, through you, Chair, I would like to say yes. Both Philip and Tyler have worked a lot on this, and they were really hoping to meet and see all of you with a much more thorough conversation. So if we could maybe after we hear the facility master plan draft, and we can certainly invite Thompson McNally back for some follow-up, if that's okay with the Chair and Paul.
[1:45:26] You know, I'm even wondering, sorry, if that's okay. Board Chair.
[1:45:31] You know, maybe we could like this is you know in retrospect like there is a lot of information
[1:45:37] coming through here and and I think it's really worth looking at
[1:45:43] carefully. So you know like we have to be mindful of
[1:45:49] of you know when we hold a meeting or we but I know I was thinking that we should see if maybe
[1:45:57] we could organize a meeting where we could invite board members to and we could just focus
[1:46:03] in with the team with Tyre and Philip on this. I think we don't really have enough time.
[1:46:12] I guess what I'm saying is it's almost this we really appreciate this, but it's like a you
[1:46:18] came on as the board when we have a lot on our table today. So it's probably not fair for the you
[1:46:25] you know, the justice of the report is too.
[1:46:28] Yeah.
[1:46:30] My question, Paul, just real quick,
[1:46:32] was going to be if we could go back and do a separate meeting
[1:46:36] similar to how we've been doing for the waterfront library.
[1:46:42] And then we can bring our questions and comments there.
[1:46:44] And if you can report back and send some dates to the board
[1:46:48] that might work, that would be really helpful.
[1:46:51] So I'm just looking to Holly and to Philip and Tyler.
[1:46:54] can we arrange that? From our perspective, we definitely can. We're happy to get together with you,
[1:47:00] and I just talked about this more fully once, everyone's had a chance to digest it because there
[1:47:04] are layers to this document that we didn't even really scratch the surface on today. So I guess the
[1:47:13] short answer is yes. Okay, that would be great. Yeah, if we can coordinate on the back and pull and
[1:47:18] and get that going. Kojo, go ahead.
[1:47:21] Yes, I look forward to that in-depth meeting.
[1:47:25] I have two questions. I'm going to make it quick. I promise.
[1:47:29] First one, is there any further analysis of how
[1:47:38] this new setup could also allow the HBO to have some revenue generation
[1:47:44] in terms of utilizing the permanent space for weddings
[1:47:48] or even the outside of the building.
[1:47:53] And I'm only thinking about that because of budgetary situations
[1:47:57] all the time.
[1:47:59] And then two, you did mention the solar panel.
[1:48:05] Is there, and I love it, I love seeing that,
[1:48:09] Is there a way that those panels could also offer energy to the nearby neighbourhood
[1:48:20] or to the city for also some revenue generation as well?
[1:48:26] Those are my two questions.
[1:48:28] Thank you for your presentation.
[1:48:34] So to answer the first question, the shape of the project and the program could be stretched
[1:48:41] And that was sort of alluded to in one of the diagrams where it can lengthen and widen.
[1:48:46] But at this point, this was a hypothetical design for a project with no site.
[1:48:53] And the parameters that we gave ourselves had related to access for pedestrians, bikes,
[1:49:00] cars, servicing.
[1:49:03] So with a particular site, then we would get into the details of the final details of what's
[1:49:10] possible in a particular site, but yes, it could be stretched and accommodated a range of
[1:49:15] different programs. And I think we need to talk to a lecturer about how you might generate
[1:49:20] electricity and then share that with the community because of the mobility, it's likely a net
[1:49:25] metering system where you generate power, give it back to the grid and then you purchase power from
[1:49:31] the grid. That's a bit more the technical discussion. But the general idea of having a simple building
[1:49:39] form that allows you to have a roof that lends itself very clearly to sheltering and generating power.
[1:49:47] That's part of using a simple building form which is economic to build but also provides an
[1:49:53] opportunity for our generation.
[1:49:59] Okay, great. So I don't see any other hands but I want to thank you all
[1:50:04] three of you for coming and presenting and looking forward to that more in-depth
[1:50:08] meeting so we can really do justice to all the work that went into this. So,
[1:50:14] thank you all. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
[1:50:22] Moving on we have we actually decided to move 5.2 facility master plan to next
[1:50:28] month just an interest of time. Sorry all I know that's the one we're most
[1:50:32] excited about. Sorry, Chad. I know you really want to talk about it. Well, we'll have a more in-depth
[1:50:40] discussion when Chad actually has time to hear everybody's comments in depth. So Facilities
[1:50:45] Master Plan will be moved to next month. Do I need a vote to move that poll? Are we good?
[1:50:59] Yeah, just to defer until next month. Is that okay?
[1:51:02] Yeah, can I, um, okay, I'll call a vote to defer Facility Master Plan to next month.
[1:51:07] In the interest of time, guys, we've got to it.
[1:51:09] I promise.
[1:51:11] Okay.
[1:51:12] Care.
[1:51:13] Read.
[1:51:14] Okay.
[1:51:15] So moving on, we have 6.1 letter from the board of 2026 direction.
[1:51:21] And can I get a mover to put that on the floor?
[1:51:24] Carly, seconder, Jen.
[1:51:25] Thank you.
[1:51:26] Go ahead, Paul.
[1:51:27] Thank you.
[1:51:28] And, you know, I think that I have a couple of questions for the board.
[1:51:32] But there was an idea of presentation to December.
[1:51:36] they really talked about those four things that we need to focus on this year and how they're
[1:51:42] interconnected. I would say that, you know, there's a fair bit of talk about in the discussion
[1:51:50] more than I had thought we would need, I think just because of the situation around safety and security
[1:51:57] and kind of the situation we're facing. So I think the question is really, sometimes we've done
[1:52:05] this where the board has approved it. We do need the board to prove this. If people have a lot of
[1:52:13] questions, like I'm wondering if you know you should receive it and give me comments so that we
[1:52:21] can approve it next month with any edits or if people are comfortable with, you know, endorsing it
[1:52:29] As it now stands, so I think it's up to you.
[1:52:34] Yeah, I'm totally fine if there are questions or comments to send those into Paul via email
[1:52:39] and then those be brought up at the next meeting after the team has had a chance to thoroughly
[1:52:43] go through it.
[1:52:45] So firstly, let me ask are there any questions or comments or edits from the board?
[1:52:53] Or do we want to know?
[1:52:55] Okay.
[1:52:55] Okay. So I guess we can vote to endorse it then Paul. I don't see any questions or comments.
[1:53:03] Okay. So I'll call the vote to receive and endorse the letter from the board as is.
[1:53:09] All in favor?
[1:53:13] Okay. Carried. Thank you.
[1:53:15] Now we have one item in consent. Does anybody want that pulled?
[1:53:20] Oh, actually, um, mover to put consent items on the floor.
[1:53:24] three and seconded by Jen. Does anybody want that item polls? No? Okay.
[1:53:32] Vote on all consent items, all in favor?
[1:53:37] Okay. Thank you. For business
[1:53:40] arising, we have a couple of items here, 8.1, the report from the
[1:53:44] nominations committee and election officers. Can I get a mover?
[1:53:55] Koto and
[1:53:58] So how we do this just to recap is we're going to go through the elections, the nominations committee has reviewed the applications and so for each one of the positions will take them in order.
[1:54:18] There's the opportunity for additional nominations.
[1:54:22] So the nominations committee isn't trying to, you know, usurp the right and board members
[1:54:28] to elect if they so choose.
[1:54:30] But for Vice President, we do have two individuals nominated.
[1:54:36] So we'll start with the chair.
[1:54:38] Are there any other nominations for the position of chair of the board or
[1:54:48] any other nominations?
[1:54:49] Remind people you can self-nominate last one last time.
[1:54:56] So, having none, we have one person nominated.
[1:55:03] Kagan Patra.
[1:55:05] Congratulations, your chair against.
[1:55:08] One more year.
[1:55:10] Okay, thank you. I just want to say thank you to the members of the board for putting their trust in me as I as I took on this role and I'm looking forward to doing it again.
[1:55:22] I'm getting us through some some quick and great meetings and leading that discussion. So thank you all again.
[1:55:30] If I had a gavel, I would slam it even though I don't think I'm supposed to at this point.
[1:55:34] But do we need to do these the second one now Paul vice chair?
[1:55:38] Yes, and if you want to take back the chair now that you're chair or I can continue with your life.
[1:55:44] I can take it. I can take it that's fine.
[1:55:46] Okay, so for nominations for vice chair, we did have two nominations already but are there any other additional nomination from the committee members or the board members?
[1:56:05] We're going to have to go and vote in a private setting Cali has set that up so we're able to vote privately.
[1:56:15] Our two nominees are Nick and Carly.
[1:56:19] So, I believe Pali just put the link, the poll into the chat.
[1:56:28] So, please go ahead and access that link and then we'll do the voting.
[1:56:35] Everybody have access? Everyone's able to get in?
[1:56:48] Once you're done, just give me the thumbs up.
[1:56:56] Okay. Pali, let me know when you've gone through and gotten all of the...
[1:57:02] Um, thank you, Coach, for that.
[1:57:04] Thank you.
[1:57:05] I'll actually help.
[1:57:08] Um, probably let me know when you've gotten all the responses.
[1:57:40] Give me one minute there.
[1:57:42] No problem.
[1:57:48] Callie, feel free to send me a chat with the.
[1:57:52] Result, if you want to just send that to me instead.
[1:57:55] Well, while we are doing the calculations, uh, is it, is it in order to say.
[1:58:02] Jen, thank you very much for being the vice chair this past year.
[1:58:10] We appreciate you, and thank you for all your work.
[1:58:15] Thank you, Jen.
[1:58:16] Thank you, Jen.
[1:58:17] It was great to be able to work in the position alongside Guggen.
[1:58:22] Yeah, and thank you for the help with the presentation as well as the council.
[1:58:25] You did a great job as vice chair for that, so thank you so much for your work.
[1:58:29] Oh, thank you.
[1:58:29] Thank you for to Paul and Pam for the excellent slides and content.
[1:59:05] I just messaged you the result.
[1:59:11] Hey, sorry, just going up to.
[1:59:15] Okay, so the result for in looks like the new vice chair is Carly.
[1:59:24] Congratulations, Carly.
[1:59:25] Congratulations, Carly.
[1:59:26] Congratulations, Carly.
[1:59:26] Congratulations, Carly.
[1:59:29] Congratulations, Carly.
[1:59:30] Congratulations, Carly.
[1:59:32] forward. We've benefited from your leadership so so much. Yeah. Thank you, Nick, for guiding
[1:59:38] me and showing me how to be here. Thank you so much for your leadership. And thank you,
[1:59:43] Carly, for putting your name for it and it's going to be fun.
[1:59:48] That it will be. Okay, it's
[1:59:51] Okay,
[1:59:55] moving on to the next position, OLS, Ontario.
[2:00:00] Our nomination is for Lynn service. So, Lynn, you are the OLS representative. Thanks.
[2:00:10] Okay. And for Audit Committee, we've got two Audit Committee and Chair. We've got two nominations so far. However, we need three. If anybody wants to put their name forward now, it would be a great time. Nick, thank you.
[2:00:28] Any additional nominations?
[2:00:33] Okay, our Audit Committee representatives will be Jen, Kojo and Nick.
[2:00:41] And you will all do an amazing job.
[2:00:44] It's a great slate.
[2:00:45] Thank you for your name for it.
[2:00:48] Libertary, we have Paul.
[2:00:51] I don't know if I'm allowed to take nominations for that, so Libertary and Treasurer is Paul
[2:00:57] as RSEO, which is stated in our by-law, so congratulations, Paul. One more year of it.
[2:01:05] Thank you for having us. Okay. Well, that's our slate of officers. Congrats, everybody.
[2:01:13] Looking forward to a great, great year ahead. And yeah, I think it'll be a great
[2:01:26] So moving right along, the next item is 8.2. I'm also recommending that we move 8.2
[2:01:34] to the next board meeting. That is digital technology related vendor record update from
[2:01:40] Deja. So my recommendation is that we move that to next month. So Deja can give a proper
[2:01:44] full sum update without the time constraints. So can I have a vote to defer that item?
[2:01:51] all in favor.
[2:01:54] Okay, Terry, so we'll talk about that in March. That's going to be along with you.
[2:02:00] Okay, now the next item we've got here is 8.3, 20, 26 budget updates. Can I get a mover to put that on the floor?
[2:02:08] Kodo and seconder Dana, thank you. That should be Pam I believe, but Paul please go ahead and
[2:02:16] Pam's absence while Pam is probably going to be somewhere.
[2:02:20] Thank you very much. And so, yes, Pam is taking a well-deserved vacation. And, you know, she's been doing a
[2:02:27] stand-up job as our director of finance and her team have been doing a great job. So, in the report on
[2:02:38] in 2026, we do reference the year-end numbers for 2020, 3, 4, and 5.
[2:02:49] And Pam drafted a report to present those, but we thought it better that we defer that
[2:02:56] to next month.
[2:02:56] There was already a lot on the agenda.
[2:02:59] So Pam is going to be here next month to go through the year-end numbers, the BBRs,
[2:03:05] for the last few years and to update the board on where we are with that and you know what's
[2:03:12] the likelihood of proceeding with the audits soon. However, there's there's really so she prepared
[2:03:19] two reports. The first one is really just an update and certainly we're going to be dealing with
[2:03:26] the reserves again as we move forward but just wanted to be clear to the board where the reserves
[2:03:33] understand because of the issue of the operating budget.
[2:03:38] And so basically as the first report says, we have $1.78 million available in our current
[2:03:48] reserves, plus the funds from the Hamilton Community Foundation Trust Funds.
[2:03:56] There's 1.37 in that.
[2:03:59] So that's the background, but so then it goes to the second report she prepared, and we did have quite a bit of a conversation internally about what we need to, or if say, like at this point in time, we don't know.
[2:04:18] and if Councilor Cratch or make me get any updates, we're not serving yet with what will happen
[2:04:26] with the final budget, whether the cut to the library is going to be of the 375 is going to be
[2:04:34] in or not. When I spoke to my cigarette at the budget presentation, they had talked about and said
[2:04:42] that the council really wanted to respect the library board's prerogative and that if
[2:04:49] we have to come up with that, how we come up with that is your decision.
[2:04:54] So I kind of sitting here, so we're bringing a report, and the motion is should HPL be
[2:05:00] required.
[2:05:01] I've never been in this kind of situation before.
[2:05:04] I think a lot of people are just dealing with a new process that, you know, with the
[2:05:11] strong mayor powers that you know it's just very recent and so it's it's it's just created some
[2:05:16] process issues that I think different municipalities like us are trying to work out. So the question is
[2:05:23] for the board and so obviously if the direction is from final direction from the mayor is not to cut
[2:05:33] that it won't be cut. The question then becomes, what are we going to do if we are mandated
[2:05:42] to cut the $375?
[2:05:45] So, we can talk about the options, but maybe we can hear from, I see
[2:05:50] the Councillors' hand up, maybe, as an update.
[2:05:52] Yeah, thanks. Thanks for all Councillor Cresti, please go ahead.
[2:05:56] My update is I have no update, except just to tell you briefly what the process is. Tomorrow
[2:06:01] at the special council meeting, which is being convened in 930, there is an option for anyone who wishes to bring forward any of the items that were voted on for a vote of gain.
[2:06:11] This vote passed 9-7, but don't sense that people are changing their vote on the subject to the vote or remain passed.
[2:06:18] Mayor then has 10 days from that day to choose whether she wishes to veto the mayor voted against this, so she may choose to veto it. I have no idea.
[2:06:25] If the Mayor vetoes it, another special meeting of Council will be held to vote on the
[2:06:29] item again.
[2:06:30] If a two-thirds majority votes in favor, then the item remains as it is.
[2:06:33] So it's unfortunately going to be unwind in a way that we have no control over, so having
[2:06:39] an interim plan and a budget approval today so that we know what to do if things should
[2:06:44] go sideways, but Ted and I are fully supportive of this and I think the votes will remain
[2:06:48] as they are.
[2:06:49] I don't think the Mayor will veto it, if you want my thoughts on it.
[2:06:54] Thank you, Councillor Crouch, and I think I speak on behalf of the board when I say,
[2:06:58] thank you to you and Councillor McMicken for bringing that amendment forward to keep
[2:07:02] the library's budget as is, and the importance of keeping that funding to what we had presented
[2:07:07] and the board had approved.
[2:07:10] My thought, Paul, is, you know, the same thing that we presented, that our preference would
[2:07:15] be to not utilize reserve balances because it's just very volatile situations right now
[2:07:23] we're facing and my preference would be not to deplete the reserves anymore than they
[2:07:28] already have been because we should be keeping that in case we need an influx of money for
[2:07:34] any of our capital improvement security is a concern right now we're hearing a lot of things
[2:07:39] about central and my preference and I'll go to the other board members as well if they
[2:07:45] have to bring opinions would be to not simply those reserves. If there's another way that we can
[2:07:50] come up with that funding the $375,000 I know we're talking isn't really in the grand scheme
[2:07:57] of the entire budget a huge amount that we have to to find the cuts for so I would be in favor of
[2:08:04] the recommended approach that Pam had suggested within the report. That's that's my two cents.
[2:08:10] Are there any other comments or questions, Dana, go ahead.
[2:08:19] This is as bad as my trying to get a green light when we're all meeting together on the
[2:08:23] handset.
[2:08:24] So a couple of questions in connection with the recommendation but first another question
[2:08:30] just about the description of the reserves.
[2:08:33] There was one sentence, I don't know if it's a typo or if it's just that I'm particularly
[2:08:38] of juice and I just wanted to get some clarification.
[2:08:41] It reads, reserve balances have not had very little injection of additional funds.
[2:08:50] I don't know what that means. Reserve funds have not had very little. Does that mean?
[2:08:55] Like is that not? Should the not not?
[2:08:59] I think it's correct. Maybe the wording is a little bit difficult.
[2:09:04] But so the issue here is there's years where we go by where we are replenishing our reserves.
[2:09:11] So, and that's true combination of donations and also operating surpluses.
[2:09:22] So, the fact is, and as you'll see the details, the last three years, we have not replenished our surpluses, our reserves.
[2:09:33] So, basically we were instructed as we explained.
[2:09:38] So I think it is correct, so basically I think what Pam is trying to say there is that we know we
[2:09:45] for a few years we've been dipping and not adding anything back.
[2:09:51] Okay, so thank you very much for that explanation, Paula. I'm inclined to, as I hear you describe
[2:09:58] that, think that it intends to say they've had very little injection of additional funds then,
[2:10:02] so maybe that not was just a type of thank you for that.
[2:10:07] Sorry, I think you're right, Tess, sorry.
[2:10:10] I don't know, that's okay, that's okay.
[2:10:12] I just wanted to be sure that I understood.
[2:10:14] And then just in terms of, and God get it, it's okay
[2:10:17] because you were sort of talking about the other recommended options.
[2:10:23] I had a couple of questions in connection with that option
[2:10:26] three staffing focused recommendation.
[2:10:30] And the first one is because it says delayed filling of positions.
[2:10:34] And so I was just sort of wondering what the collective agreement says about the filling
[2:10:38] of vacancies.
[2:10:40] I just wasn't sure if there's, I mean, does management have full discretion in terms
[2:10:44] of posting vacancies?
[2:10:48] Okay.
[2:10:49] Yes.
[2:10:50] So that's not always the case.
[2:10:51] So I wanted just to, I wanted to ask you, but you know, like we obviously would work closely
[2:10:58] with the union and they know like if we're going to be delaying something like this we'll
[2:11:03] be meeting with them to let them know okay we can't fill these positions at this time and
[2:11:09] here's what our plan is so okay great thank you I just I just sort of wanted to get some clarity
[2:11:14] around that and then I'm just wondering what the what the phrase increased branch personnel efficiency
[2:11:22] actually is actually getting at because it's been quantified as $175,000 but I'm just wondering exactly
[2:11:28] what that means. So I can answer that and it goes to the service review that we're talking about
[2:11:34] and I'm so the intention here the purpose of this is not to cut staff okay but what it is to do
[2:11:45] is we had a look we have some pressure points community connector positions were one and they've
[2:11:54] actually been very helpful at Central.
[2:11:56] We could be expanding that program.
[2:11:59] We have the Discovery Center.
[2:12:03] We're looking at our noters across the system
[2:12:05] and seeing, we haven't done this for a couple of years
[2:12:09] and just making sure that we're balancing
[2:12:12] our existing staff complement as effectively as possible
[2:12:18] so that they're engaged with customers.
[2:12:24] And we are seeing some patterns where some branches haven't been as busy.
[2:12:30] And so it's not, but the intention here is not to lay off staff or to cut service,
[2:12:39] but it would be to look for where there's new opportunities or pressure points for us.
[2:12:48] This is what we normally do as an organization.
[2:12:51] and so it's like, and I think we're mindful of if we think this budget year was challenging,
[2:12:59] you know, when we look ahead to the next couple of years, we could be potentially facing even more
[2:13:05] challenging circumstances. So just hypothetically, two, three years from now, two years, next year,
[2:13:13] someone can come to us and say you need to deal with a reduction. Let's hope
[2:13:21] that doesn't happen. What we're trying to do and we've done this past is let's
[2:13:26] make sure we're effectively utilizing our staff around the system
[2:13:33] proactively and so that we are delivering you know for the city. So that's what
[2:13:39] really speaks to. And I think, you know, oftentimes, we often think of, well, you know, you have
[2:13:46] inputs, our staff and outputs, you know, you decrease staff, you decrease. We've done a lot of
[2:13:53] changes over the years that has transformed how our business works. And the reality is that we have
[2:14:00] some opportunities to provide better, I would say, in-depth support for individuals if we can
[2:14:10] line up the stock resources to do that. So that's really what that's about. And I think
[2:14:19] the history of the Hamilton Public Library going back to when we first became a unified system in 2001
[2:14:27] with us done does and went worth has been to let's look at how can we use innovation to adapt
[2:14:36] their staff and we talked about it in the budget presentation. So that's really what that's
[2:14:40] talking about and so in many cases we have areas where there's less activity than there would be
[2:14:48] so we need to make sure staff are properly balanced like we're still supporting staff in those
[2:14:53] to support those branches, but that we're putting people to work where we really need them or where the community needs them.
[2:15:00] It needs them.
[2:15:03] See, and I think too often, you know, we, people wait for someone to do that. Tell them, oh, you need to go through this exercise. Our experience has always been as better for us to proactively do that, working with the library board than it is waiting for someone from the city or to say, hey, are you being effective, you know, and that's been, that's been the experience. So, does that answer your question?
[2:15:31] Okay.
[2:15:34] Thank you, Paul, for clarifying COSIO. Go ahead.
[2:15:38] Yeah. I have a question, maybe a suggestion. Is it possible, so for option three, when we
[2:15:49] say delayed failing positions and increased branch personnel efficiency, do we know which
[2:15:57] branches because, okay, what I'm getting at here is, even if we have an idea of which branches,
[2:16:09] I think we should mention that because what Councillor Krutsch and Councillor Ted
[2:16:16] McMeakin have kind of laid out for us is that we are still in, we don't know what will happen.
[2:16:22] So, for me, I think there was also some reluctancy from other Councillors, I've been following
[2:16:30] some of the discusses anytime HBL comes up, there was resident to why we were asking
[2:16:38] for five point, whatever it was, and there were other people that came at the 4.25.
[2:16:46] So for me, I think if we're going to hopefully everything goes well, nobody changes any votes
[2:16:56] or whatever, we should also provide that information.
[2:17:00] So to me, I think if we even have an idea of where those efficiencies or delayed feelings
[2:17:08] would be happening, I would say we should include it in here.
[2:17:13] And then my second suggestion is, I think that, you know, we are grateful to have Councillor
[2:17:20] Krutsch and Councillor McKean and Councillor Narendra Ngan who come to our meetings and understand
[2:17:29] what we do. I would say that maybe moving forward, every four months or so, we should be sending
[2:17:39] should be sending counsel things that we are doing, particularly in all the branches
[2:17:46] that are in the city, because it's so much, it's difficult for our chair, Gagan did a
[2:17:56] great job, Jen did a great job of trying to say all of that at a budget presentation when
[2:18:03] When everybody is asking you, have you thought about innovation?
[2:18:07] Why aren't you using your disk?
[2:18:09] What else have you done?
[2:18:10] So I think for us, for our budget process to go at least smoothly next year, in terms of
[2:18:18] questions, not on our side, maybe every four months we should be sending some communication
[2:18:23] to all Councillors and the mayor about these are the things that we are doing, so that they
[2:18:29] have an idea of all the work that the library does throughout the year.
[2:18:35] So that would just be my suggestion so that next year when we're talking about our budget,
[2:18:40] we are not being asked questions that are either in a presentation or that we've been doing
[2:18:46] throughout the whole year.
[2:18:52] Thanks, Code Bill Phil, comments, not for Paul if you have
[2:18:54] response for that at this point. So maybe the second part,
[2:18:58] Councillor Crouch might want to say something first. In cards of first point, we honestly
[2:19:04] don't have an answer for this yet. And what the recommendation does mention to the board
[2:19:11] or what we're saying is that it says further that, okay, so that it directs us to use option 3
[2:19:20] and further that staff are directed to minimize service impacts if workable. However,
[2:19:27] should they become necessary report back to the board?
[2:19:32] So like I guess what I'm saying is we're not anticipating this is going to have a visible
[2:19:39] impact on existing service.
[2:19:43] What we're looking at doing is there's some areas of service that are really high priority
[2:19:49] that we need to look at making sure that we're fully supporting those.
[2:19:53] So I'm just saying, Coach, like we're going through this process and we don't we don't know yet, okay?
[2:20:01] But when I look at the numbers, it's not like it's not like an insurmountable task for us to be able to do this.
[2:20:09] Okay. Maybe the second thing and and what I would say is we've been this last couple of years with the cyber attack and with all the challenges going on.
[2:20:23] I've been trying to be respectful of all the challenges council is dealing with.
[2:20:28] And so, you know, some of the normal periodic outreach that we do, that has not been as high a priority just because of all the challenges or the work been managing.
[2:20:41] So, anyway, I just leave that, but I take the point that, you know, ensuring we have full support of council has always been.
[2:20:51] our goal. And last number of years, like this was the first time that there was a vote that
[2:20:57] was not, I mean, in several years, that was not, if not, new unanimous, close to unanimous.
[2:21:04] So I think there's work to do on our part to make sure we're communicating effectively with
[2:21:13] Councillors all of Council. Yeah, thanks Paul. Councillor Couch. Did you want to add to that?
[2:21:22] Yeah.
[2:21:23] In the risk of shattering the fourth wall here, I think it's important for me to say that
[2:21:27] I don't think it's a lack of information, and I agree with Kojo in terms of, you know,
[2:21:31] outreach we can do.
[2:21:32] I just don't actually think that's on the library.
[2:21:34] I really don't think there's a single counselor sitting around that table who doesn't know exactly
[2:21:37] what they're voting for, exactly what they're doing, and exactly what's going on.
[2:21:41] I'll be very blunt.
[2:21:43] You know, when you're in an election year, and you want to say that people should just,
[2:21:49] to use their reserves and do whatever, and you put this budget number on a 4.25%, it's
[2:21:54] kind of easy to sort of just say, well we should all be going in that way and that's
[2:21:57] what the issue is.
[2:21:58] I don't think it's the value of the library specifically, you'd have to ask individual
[2:22:01] people about that around the table, but I'm just saying that I don't think reducing more
[2:22:05] reading for counselors will get them to A, read it, B, change their vote based on having
[2:22:11] read it, that's all I'm saying.
[2:22:12] I don't think this is politics, I don't think this is about information, and that's what's
[2:22:17] going on here, finally, unfortunately.
[2:22:20] So I don't think it's going to,
[2:22:21] I think it's not going to be a valuable exercise
[2:22:23] for the board to undertake,
[2:22:25] or staffs undertake to try to educate counselors
[2:22:28] who don't necessarily wish to receive that education.
[2:22:31] I'll leave it there.
[2:22:34] Thanks, counselor.
[2:22:35] Carly, go ahead.
[2:22:37] Thank you.
[2:22:38] I'm going to have a process question.
[2:22:41] And I appreciate maybe this is a bit odd now
[2:22:43] that I'm vice-carried,
[2:22:44] but I wasn't part of the discussion leading up to this.
[2:22:47] I appreciate that there's been so much work that's gone into developing these options.
[2:22:53] Should we be required to reduce the budget?
[2:22:57] Really just trying to understand, though, the premise of the conversation and in doing
[2:23:01] this activity, like, why are we planning for reductions at this stage?
[2:23:06] And what might be actually signaling in doing so?
[2:23:10] So is there a scenario that we hold our position rather than preemptively modeling these sorts
[2:23:18] of cuts and showing that it can be done?
[2:23:22] And so I suppose I just want to be clear on the governance rationale for moving into
[2:23:27] a reduction planning, and maybe I'm just being obstinate.
[2:23:33] My understanding, and I be sent to be corrected, you know, and like I would say,
[2:23:40] The mayor has always been a supporter of the library and this isn't specific address like looking at the library.
[2:23:49] It's looking at a whole number of areas and we are one of them.
[2:23:56] If like we're going to get our approved budget.
[2:24:02] If I don't see it making a material difference on council or the mayor, whether the board accepts.
[2:24:09] If we come up with their proposal, I guess if we defer it, you know, we could check.
[2:24:17] I have no idea whether that would have any impact on council's deliberations.
[2:24:27] And we need to remember we're 2.7% of the city's operating budget.
[2:24:33] Okay, there's a lot bigger fish or not fish, but you know what I mean?
[2:24:38] Like in terms of money, we're I'm sure people are not putting us
[2:24:43] top of priority necessarily.
[2:24:46] Anyway, but I don't see this as giving the marijuana, it's okay to cut our budget.
[2:24:52] I think we've made our case.
[2:24:53] I think you're what they have to say and we just want to make sure we're not getting
[2:24:58] in lack of compliance with the direction we're given to from our funder.
[2:25:07] Very fun, 97% of our budget.
[2:25:11] So it's like we're trying to respect their process.
[2:25:16] And I'm sure as next year, all the last couple of years with mayor strong powers, this has
[2:25:26] created some changes to process that are still
[2:25:29] getting figured out across the profits and in our own city as well.
[2:25:34] I think thanks Paul and I just wanted to add that at council a lot of this
[2:25:42] concern those questions we received from council when we were delivering our
[2:25:45] budget presentation about if you're asked to reduce it where are you going to
[2:25:50] get that that money from? Where is that 375,000 coming from? So that's kind of the
[2:25:55] exercise we had asked Paul and Pam and the team to do so. I thank you Paul and Pam although
[2:26:03] you're not here for going through that exercise and providing the options and the recommended
[2:26:08] approach. So I don't see any other hands. I'll call the vote for that report and I believe
[2:26:15] that is to approve the recommended approach. Paul correct? Okay. Okay great. So all in favor?
[2:26:29] Okay.
[2:26:33] Okay. Does anyone want to record their opposition? We can do that. We don't normally
[2:26:39] do it, but I just can't give them if a worker wants to get there. Yeah. I didn't see all
[2:26:46] hands. I didn't see all hands. I'm in certain affection or okay. I'd be okay being recorded
[2:26:53] it as a no. Okay. Okay. Very bad majority though. Okay. Thank you everybody. And our next item 9.1,
[2:27:05] we just have a written delegation that we're going to be receiving. So I won't read it, but we'll
[2:27:10] put that on the floor to add that to our minutes. Can I get a mover add that? Carly and the seconder,
[2:27:18] Nick, thank you. And report, we've got a couple of reports here, year-end report on goal.
[2:27:29] I'm assuming that one needs to come this month, right? That's not one we can defer.
[2:27:33] Well, we can defer it. It's, it's just closing the books for last year in a sense. So, but we can pass on it and bring it back next month.
[2:27:41] I would recommend to defer that all in favor of deferring the year-end report
[2:27:48] on goals. Okay, looks like it's carried. Thank you. 2025 year-end metrics report.
[2:27:57] This is a big one as well that we do get. I'm wondering if we wanted to
[2:28:01] defer this so we can get a full-term update from Pad next month. There's a lot of information in there.
[2:28:07] Is everybody okay with deferring the year end metrics?
[2:28:14] Add are you okay with that for next month instead of this month?
[2:28:18] Absolutely, Chair.
[2:28:19] I thank Andrew for joining us tonight in preparation.
[2:28:22] Oh my god, I'm so sorry, Andrew.
[2:28:24] It's so meeting.
[2:28:26] But it'll be better in March, I promise.
[2:28:30] Okay.
[2:28:31] All in favor of deferring the year end metrics to March.
[2:28:35] Okay.
[2:28:36] carried. And then Chief Librarian's report, Paul, I think we have that every month. So I'm not sure
[2:28:42] if you do. There's not interested information report to be received.
[2:28:48] Okay, can I get a mover to
[2:28:49] add that then? We don't need Paul to speak to it, but Dana, okay, seconder. Lynn, okay. And then
[2:28:56] all in favor to receive.
[2:29:00] Okay. Amazing. We have no new business. No policies. We've got two items
[2:29:06] under private and confidential, so I'm going to
[2:29:09] I've been the meeting now and vote to go in camera,
[2:29:14] so we don't have to come back into open session
[2:29:17] after we're finished with those topics.
[2:29:20] So is that okay, Paul, procedurally?
[2:29:23] Yeah, so we should get a motion to go into
[2:29:26] Grant in camera.
[2:29:30] And for the safety and security legal privacy issue,
[2:29:36] and a potential property development.
[2:29:41] Coge, did you have a question about that or?
[2:29:44] Yes, I just, you said we should stay on,
[2:29:48] but I think there was another thing that was said.
[2:29:52] No, no, which one are we using?
[2:29:55] I just want to thank you.
[2:29:56] We're going to join the private meeting,
[2:29:58] but I'll be doing it.
[2:30:00] Is we just want to, we need to record a motion to go in camera in the public session. So I will. You got now all in a motion first to go in camera.
[2:30:15] So it's been a long meeting. I'm losing my mind, Dana and I was in seconder. Okay. All in favor of going into a closed session. And can I just adjourn the meeting now to Paul? Yes, we should and there's going to be no motions coming out of the.
[2:30:30] the private and confidential session, so.
[2:30:36] Okay, so a overtulture in the meeting, once we're done, Nick, yay.
[2:30:43] And Lynn, seconder, okay.
[2:30:46] So everybody, there is a code you'll thank you for mentioning.
[2:30:48] There is a second link that Callie had sent.
[2:30:50] Please exit this link and join that link for the public.
[2:30:54] The next meeting is March 11th, 2026.
[2:30:56] So I'll see you all on the other link very shortly, bye.