1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:13,840 Good evening everyone. Uh today is March 10th. It's uh 7:04 2 00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:18,080 and we have a quorum present. So I'm going to call the warrant committee 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:21,920 meeting to order and we'll start with a roll call. Uh 4 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:24,400 » present. >> Elizabeth Kelly present. 5 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:27,439 » Johan present. >> Calahan present. 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:31,199 » Ashley Duke present. >> Brent Nelson present. Peter 7 00:00:29,119 --> 00:00:39,440 Michaelelsson FEMA. >> Okay. Um we have a busy agenda tonight. 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:44,320 Um and um you know, first we'll approve some minutes and then um talk about uh 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:48,800 our calendar. We have a number of articles and the order that I thought we 10 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:54,800 would we' take them in is the order they appear in the agenda. So we'll do the 11 00:00:50,719 --> 00:01:01,520 citizens petition first and then Castle Hill uh sewer system. Um we have a 12 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:07,040 number of people here uh on that article and then um then we'll do appropriation 13 00:01:05,199 --> 00:01:11,920 to the conservation trust fund additional appropriation to Danielson 14 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:16,479 Pond Dam the reappropriation of the remaining borrowing for the water 15 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:20,560 treatment plantfill closure attorney and engineering 16 00:01:19,119 --> 00:01:24,799 appropriation of sledding hill engineering 17 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:31,680 and a community CPR training revolving fund the town meeting core formed by law 18 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:36,079 exchange in a local election date and the two special legislation articles to 19 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:40,560 allow one to allow digital access and the other is for mandatory retirement 20 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:45,680 age for fire department members. Now I I you know we went very long our 21 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:52,640 last meeting but I think so my plan is to let's go to like 8:30ish not a hard 22 00:01:49,759 --> 00:01:58,399 stop but I want to save time to talk about the override modeling scenarios 23 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:05,520 and the stuff that I sent around on the deliberation plan for that article. 24 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:10,239 Um so that's that's our agenda. Okay. Okay. So, the first item, 25 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:15,360 everybody have a chance to review the um record setting minutes that Ed sent out. 26 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:18,920 I think it has to be a record for number of pages. Ed 27 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,879 » any >> I was super impressed. Got a lot in 28 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,840 there. >> Initials is AI. 29 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:39,200 » They got done very quickly by AI. I couldn't believe said that within 24 30 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:42,160 hours I saw the moment expression in my head. Let's go. 31 00:02:40,239 --> 00:02:47,440 » Yeah. >> Any comments or questions on that? 32 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:53,680 » There was one I mean I can't pull it up right now of course but there was one 33 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:59,120 note about somebody mentioned the 131 people on the wait list for Medfield 34 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:06,080 preschool was attributed to me. I did not know that. So it was somebody else. 35 00:03:02,959 --> 00:03:07,920 Jeff Marson said that I 36 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:10,879 » think that's right. >> Okay, so we can fix that. 37 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:12,560 » Who said it? >> Jeff Marston. 38 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,560 » Oh, >> I think the minutes the minutes reflect 39 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:22,879 that Joe said it. So it was probably Jeff Jeff Marsman who said it. So just 40 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:31,200 make that. So I would entertain a motion then with that edit uh to approve the 41 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,959 March 2nd for committee minutes. >> So move. 42 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,480 » Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. 43 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:42,319 » Okay. Uh All right. I guess we can We don't have anyone. Oh, wait. Hold on. 44 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:46,879 » There's no one. Okay. I guess we can uh do a uh voice voice vote. All in favor 45 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:52,560 say I. >> I. I. 46 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:57,840 » Opposed? No. Motion passes. Okay. Um, so the calendar, um, I think 47 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:03,120 everybody should plan on having a meeting on that. That one date we were 48 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:08,000 holding in April or maybe >> is that April 6? 49 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:11,439 » April 6. It's a Monday. I think you, you know, based on the way things are lining 50 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,439 up, we're going to need that meeting though. So, everybody should hold that 51 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:21,000 date >> because we want people want to discuss 52 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:21,000 opening day. 53 00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:24,880 Yeah, you can give us an update on how things went, right? 54 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:31,040 » Yeah. Okay. >> The game will be over by then. 55 00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:36,960 » All right. Um All right. So, um 56 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:42,479 Mr. Saladino, good evening. Come on up. Sit down and 57 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:48,880 and join us. Um we have the uh 58 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:59,360 citizens petition that was submitted by Pete. Um and uh that is 59 00:04:55,840 --> 00:05:05,360 just a second. Let me get my Everybody should have had a copy of that 60 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:11,039 sent around. Um thank you for doing submitting the the questionnaire. Yeah, 61 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:17,600 » we like it when petitioners do that. Uh it saves us a lot of headache and time. 62 00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:24,240 Uh so thank you for doing that. Um, I think you know, one thing before we we 63 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:29,919 get into this, I think we will have um the park and wreck people in on the 64 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:36,560 24th. So, we'll have a chance to listen uh from them uh because they have an 65 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:42,880 article for the module for the uh pre-fabricated building at Hinckley. 66 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:47,520 Um and uh you know, they can talk to us about that. Um, one thing that we just 67 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,440 found out today >> that you should know, 68 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,600 » breaking news, >> there was a survey done now that was 69 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,160 released. Okay. So, that that's right. >> Contain the results. Yeah. 70 00:05:54,639 --> 00:05:57,199 » But there's a copy right there if you want one. 71 00:05:56,639 --> 00:06:01,600 » Yeah. >> Right there. 72 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:08,639 » Um, and um, so >> um, anyway, with that, I will turn it 73 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:12,240 over to you and then, you know, talk uh, give us an overview maybe of the 74 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:17,759 article. I'm assume everybody's read it. Okay. It's fairly long, but um you know 75 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,199 and then I would open it up to questions. 76 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,440 » That sounds good. >> Yeah. Well, I think it's great to be 77 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:29,280 back. I happy to be back uh here at the war committee, but this time on the 78 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:31,680 other side of of the uh aisle here. Um and for those that don't know, 79 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:36,240 Elizabeth, I haven't had a chance to meet you. I was a war committed 80 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:39,039 down in December. Thought there's some other ways I could contribute. One of 81 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:45,840 the ways was through this citizen petition. Um, I think that we have a 82 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:50,080 very narrow window uh with the timeline that's going on with the school and with 83 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:57,759 other items in the town to put together a plan for the FAFSA center, which to my 84 00:06:54,880 --> 00:07:02,880 surprise remains without a plan this many months since it was closed and many 85 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:08,880 more months and years since it was identified as a problem. First in 2017 86 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:15,280 and then again uh in 2025. Uh that's not a great look and I was 87 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:20,080 really surprised honestly that it fell to a citizen's petition for someone to 88 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:25,280 come up with a plan. That's also not a great uh look. But to that end, I just 89 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:29,199 jumped at it and tried to put together the best I could. Uh it may not be 90 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:34,160 perfect, but it's what I thought would be the closest to what people were 91 00:07:31,919 --> 00:07:38,319 trying to do and and would like. And I I'll just base off of how I arrived at 92 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:45,199 that. I went back and did a bunch of research and in 2017 was when that, you 93 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:51,199 know, that architectural firm said, "Hey, there's a problem with the FAFS 94 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:57,199 center." Uh, and in 2018, there was a a warrant at the 2018 annual town meeting 95 00:07:54,240 --> 00:08:01,599 which referenced $60,000 that had been previously allocated for a feasibility 96 00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:08,319 study for a new building for the to replace or for the parks and wreck and a 97 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:15,360 motion passed in 2018 for $100,000 for an OPM study, feasibility study for a 98 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:22,400 new building for the community for the parks and recreation. uh uh commission 99 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:26,479 in 2019 and 2020 there was a townwide master plan and one of the top 100 00:08:25,039 --> 00:08:30,639 recommendations there were 12 recommendations and about a 400page 101 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:34,719 document. So that these are really the distillation uh one of them said we 102 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:38,560 should you know build an intergenerational commun community 103 00:08:36,399 --> 00:08:43,919 center and a new building for parks and wreck. So this was like what everyone 104 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:49,600 wanted to do. It was well very clear. In 2021, $15,000 was established on the 105 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:54,800 long range capital plan. So the town's been planning for this. In 2025, 106 00:08:53,279 --> 00:09:01,760 another uh there was a park and recreation last year. $165,000 107 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:06,240 was allocated for a temporary uh use that did not actually come to pass with 108 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:11,279 the one-year plan. As I recall, it was presented as a one-year plan for 109 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:16,399 $165,000 for module buildings at Hinckley. And one of the reasons why 110 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:22,080 Hinckley was not an as good of a solution is because then, as they've the 111 00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:25,440 parks and w has said is that there are um environmental problems that will 112 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,440 prevent them from building a sufficiently large building at Hankley. 113 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:34,959 So, there are two things going on at Hinckley. One is they're coming back 114 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:38,320 again this year with a a second proposal for modulars which are temporary 115 00:09:36,959 --> 00:09:41,600 buildings. So they don't maybe necessarily have to go under the 116 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:46,240 permanent planning and building committee which is a little bit sketchy. 117 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:52,560 Uh but they're trying to have those be long-term solution. Uh so it's sort of a 118 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:57,600 long-term band-aid. uh wasn't somehow it was not sufficient at $165,000 last 119 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:04,720 year, but we're meant to believe that it will be uh somehow sufficient uh for the 120 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:09,040 long term, but with less uh money um this time. I haven't really read their 121 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:13,680 their uh their proposal. It doesn't really matter. The the key elements of 122 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:17,360 what I'm trying to propose uh as a citizen's petitions here relate to 123 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:22,000 FAFSA. It does not really have frankly has nothing to do with it. Uh the land 124 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:28,079 is a beautifully located central asset for the community. Parks and recreation 125 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:33,440 happens to be the uh the command and control of of the uh of the um asset. So 126 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:38,399 they have a decision that they should be making uh as the stewards of that land, 127 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:42,000 but that hasn't happened. Instead, they're proposing to build temporary 128 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:46,720 buildings on a different part of their land. But the community has a vested 129 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:50,800 interest in doing something with that land because it's centrally located. The 130 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:56,880 kids can walk straight from Dale School. And uh that's why at last uh month when 131 00:10:55,120 --> 00:11:00,720 the parks and recck person came and presented to you, they talked about how 132 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:05,040 they're having to do more with middle schoolers because the uh the older kids 133 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,720 are able to make it to the UCCC, but the younger kids can't. The schedule doesn't 134 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:12,560 work out. people aren't able to drop off the kids all the way over at UCCC 135 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:17,360 because and by the way, they're only at UCCC on a one-year rolling lease. So, 136 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:22,560 the town doesn't have a solution. And even the uh proposal for the the the 137 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:26,160 buildings that are prefab buildings, which is another problem with their 138 00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:30,160 proposal, is prefab buildings really, but at Hinckley is a those are for 139 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:33,760 administrative facilities. They're not designed to be used for curriculum and 140 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:38,240 planning. So there's like a number of stacked problems, but the biggest one in 141 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:44,160 my mind is that the community has already allocated 100 by what I can read 142 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:49,440 is $60,000 in 2018 was a prior reference. $100,000 in 2018 for a 143 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,399 feasibility study that never happened or if it did happen, it stopped. And one of 144 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:57,120 the reasons it stopped was because there was all sorts of problems with park and 145 00:11:53,839 --> 00:12:01,600 wreck as we know. So we never got our feasibility study. We never got a plan. 146 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,959 That's not my fault. That's not anyone in this in this room's fault, but it 147 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:08,160 happened. And so now we're in a situation where the school building 148 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:13,040 committee has done an amazing job and under difficult circumstances, but they 149 00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:17,440 are going forward with an OPM plan on that land next to it. So are we really 150 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:21,040 going to build a school with a decrepit building on next to it? No, we're not. 151 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:25,279 What they're have talked about and Peter, you can talk about it. They've 152 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,120 talked about what should we do with the FAP land? Well, we'll plan to 153 00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:33,680 incorporate it in some scenarios. So their OPM is going to come to you guys 154 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:37,839 in 10 months from now and say we do have some scenarios that incorporate the FAF 155 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:41,600 center land and everyone's going to say well that's great because it could 156 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:45,680 really be a better experience. It could be better better all these different 157 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:49,279 reasons why it's more expansive all these pluses and positives and that's 158 00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:54,160 wonderful. It probably will be better. But the point is when you're faced with 159 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:58,399 the comparison of better versus nothing, you're going to choose the better 160 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:01,040 probably. But that being said, at next year's town meeting, whatever is 161 00:12:59,839 --> 00:13:05,680 proposed by the school building committee will require a twothirds vote 162 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:11,600 by everyone there to incorporate any changes to approve the moving of the FAF 163 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:16,000 land into the school because it's not the school's land. It is the uh parks 164 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:19,600 and reccks land. And so if that's what everyone wants to do, especially if the 165 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,880 school building, which is going to be with us for so many years, it's a 166 00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:28,560 wonderful idea. It could be a great idea, but it should have a chance to be 167 00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:33,120 compared against a proper plan that is not that that is not the school that is 168 00:13:30,959 --> 00:13:38,480 for the community that is envisioned in 2018 was funded in the long reach 169 00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:43,920 capital plan in 20 uh 2021 was highly featured in the 2019 and 2020 uh top 170 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:48,959 recommendations in the uh annual what is the purpose of a uh annual plan if we 171 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:53,920 don't ever do the things we recommend or even do the things that were studied 172 00:13:51,760 --> 00:14:01,680 that that were funded to do there's one last important point which is In 2020 173 00:13:57,839 --> 00:14:06,160 uh two after the sort of Dale failed vote, the town passed a bylaw update 174 00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:09,519 that said the permanent planning and building committee should be involved 175 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:13,920 and should be in charge of all buildings that are not schools. I didn't I thought 176 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:17,839 it was a good idea at the time and I I probably voted for it. Doesn't really 177 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:22,880 matter. It's in the code that says the permanent planning building committee is 178 00:14:19,199 --> 00:14:26,160 in charge of all non-schools. So, this while a nice thing and actually I 179 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:32,079 thought it was well written. I didn't see the results, this is not $165,000 of 180 00:14:29,839 --> 00:14:37,920 a feasibility study of what should we do for the the the beautifully central plot 181 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:42,720 and it's not what we paid for. By the way, last year, last month, you guys 182 00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:48,399 listened to the parks and recreation committee talk about their revolving 183 00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:54,079 fund, which according to the annual uh budget shows that that money from those 184 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:58,399 feasibility studies was in that budget was in that revolving fund. So, one of 185 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:02,720 the reasons why I think you noted over five years the number kept going up. 186 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:07,760 Well, one of the reasons is the budget, the money in that um in that account 187 00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:11,040 probably was not enough to fund a feasibility study. Well, I don't know 188 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:14,959 exactly why they didn't make do these things over the last five years, but 189 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:19,440 they didn't. And so, we don't have a feasibility study. And so, we're about 190 00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:23,360 to roll into next year's vote next year with no plan other than the school 191 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,639 building committee's plan, which is kind of a bummer, especially since we spent 192 00:15:25,199 --> 00:15:29,760 all the money. Where did I think we may have spent the money? Maybe it's still 193 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:33,120 sitting there. I don't know. They made a comment online of social saying that 194 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:37,360 they still have the money. They can do a feasibility study, but they're not 195 00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:40,639 supposed to do a feasibility study. The town bylaw says that the permanent 196 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:47,680 planning and building committee, for just this reason, should be in charge of 197 00:15:43,199 --> 00:15:51,199 doing a a um a uh as feasibility study because it incorporates things beyond 198 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:55,279 parks and recreation committee. It should also incorporate the views of the 199 00:15:52,639 --> 00:16:01,199 council on aging on whoever else, right? because it's supposed to be for the the 200 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:06,320 town beyond just the so the town right now is not following its own bylaws 201 00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:10,720 quite honestly and we are that would be like kind of a bummer and no big deal. 202 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,759 We'll do a vote next year but when we do the time for the vote where there's a 203 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:17,440 two-thirds override vote that makes it all go away and it's no problem because 204 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:23,360 the town will have voted to be fine with that. We will only have had one solution 205 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:28,800 which is the solution for the school on that land. And when you have a choice of 206 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:34,399 either voting for the beautiful uh school uh uh uh proposal versus not, 207 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,360 it's sort of a no-brainer that you're going to say, well, let's just make the 208 00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:40,800 best use of it. There's no other options that have been presented. But it's not 209 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:44,240 fair that there's no other options that have been presented. We've allocated the 210 00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:47,680 money. We planned for it in the long range planning committee. The town's 211 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:52,880 people said they wanted it and just nobody did it. And so that's why I did 212 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:57,040 this citizens article because I just don't think it's right. I don't run a 213 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:01,839 business that does construction. I don't even go to I didn't even go to the 214 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:06,000 previous parks or recreation building. I been to the FAB center just a few times 215 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:10,880 in my my life. My kids loved it. But my point is I think the town deserves a 216 00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:14,880 vote on what to do with that beautifully central located plot without just 217 00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:19,120 tossing it over to the school and saying we don't have a better plan or we can't 218 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,919 afford it. Because theoretically we could afford it in five years from now 219 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,120 or 10 years from now. It doesn't matter. We could do a plan and say we don't have 220 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,160 the money now. We'll do it in 10 years. But the second we give it over to the 221 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:33,760 school, it's gone forever. And then people are talking about trying to drive 222 00:17:29,919 --> 00:17:39,280 their kids up to the to the uh um uh you know all over all over town for other 223 00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:42,160 places to get their kids or uh whatever programming. And when it should be 224 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,200 centrally located, it's right there. The kids can walk to it. All the kids love. 225 00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:49,200 That's one of the things that the kids love is the ability to go up town and 226 00:17:47,679 --> 00:17:55,280 and and do the things that they do after school. So I really think it reflects 227 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:59,760 not great on I don't know not this organization here but in general the 228 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:04,160 fact that we got to this point where we sort of are just okay with the fact that 229 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:08,000 we're going to a not follow the bylaws b not follow the feasibility study that 230 00:18:05,679 --> 00:18:13,679 was passed in 2018 c not follow the long range planning committee and then 231 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:19,280 totally ignore the uh the uh aspirations allocated that came out of the um annual 232 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:24,480 planning uh the uh long range planning just seems 233 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:28,160 you know suboptimal honestly and I think there's an opportunity 234 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,840 according to the which you should ask them according to the parks and 235 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:35,760 recreation committee they either spent the money or they have the money for the 236 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:40,080 feasibility study so it actually could be net neutral there may need to be no 237 00:18:37,919 --> 00:18:44,240 but I don't think that we'll we'll be ask and then we'll ask this is we have a 238 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,600 lot I have a lot of questions for you >> but anyway it should go to the permanent 239 00:18:45,679 --> 00:18:52,080 planning and building committee to do it not the what They said that they were 240 00:18:49,679 --> 00:18:56,160 doing in social posts. They said they were authorized in 2018 to do this. So, 241 00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:58,960 they're still going to do it. And this is what we got. 242 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,919 » I don't think the feasibility. >> Nobody's saying that's a feasibility. 243 00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:04,880 » That's not a feasibility. >> That's a survey. 244 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:10,240 » Well, why are they doing a survey at this point in 2026 when we have a 2020 245 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:14,160 2018 article that said, "Please do a feasibility study." 246 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,880 We're they're jamming it in. >> We'll get into that. We'll get into 247 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:24,320 that. Um so I mean I I have a lot of questions but I I want everybody else to 248 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:28,880 get a chance to ask questions. Um you ask that just quick question beginning 249 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:34,320 you said the timing is tight. Mhm. >> So 250 00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:37,120 » if let's say in May this petition is approved 251 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,120 » that's when >> maybe 252 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:45,840 » and is there I mean how does that can it get done correctly within that period of 253 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:50,559 time between then and the following probably less than a year or maybe a 254 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:54,559 year later you'll be you'll be looking at another article for the school. Is 255 00:19:52,400 --> 00:20:01,280 that correct Peter? So the school, 256 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:06,960 » it's not a part of town meeting in 2027. There will be a special town meeting 257 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:13,360 » and my guess is it'll be my prayer is that it would be in fall of 2027. 258 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:15,679 » That would be good time. >> 15 16 months. 259 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:20,880 » I would just answer your question. It's totally different to do OPM planning for 260 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:26,640 something that has to align with the state and MSBA jumping through all the 261 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:29,840 MSBA hoops for a school versus not doing that. This is just a straight up 262 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,200 feasibility. Can we build a building? What should it look like? Architect 263 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:37,600 bangs it out and you have, you know, but but when the school does their design, 264 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:41,679 we're not going to build two parking lots next to each other. It'll be an 265 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:46,400 integrated the timelines are integrated enough that each can take into account 266 00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:51,120 the others. uh design uh and and electric hookups and plumbing hookups. 267 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:55,679 All of those synergies are important to do now, not let the school build their 268 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,880 thing and then we'll get to it in 10 years or something. We're going to it's 269 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,760 nothing's going to work together and you're going to wind up having to go 270 00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:04,400 more vertical. It's going to be a very it's going to be way more expensive, 271 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:09,039 too. >> Yeah, presumably. I guess you could wait 272 00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:13,120 if you knew that the school had no interest today on that property. Then 273 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:18,640 there wouldn't be as much of a rush on this. Well, I just think 274 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:22,240 » it's not honestly I have maybe I want to build a house on that property. It 275 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:27,760 doesn't matter who wants who has interest in what. It's not theirs. It is 276 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:32,000 not the school's property. It is the parks and recreation property and they 277 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:36,559 should have a plan or they should have what according to the town bylaw they're 278 00:21:34,159 --> 00:21:40,400 supposed to ask the select board to ask the permanent planning and building 279 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:45,120 committee to do a feasibility study. >> Okay. Let's let's talk about that 280 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:48,000 because I think just of misunderstanding that that point. Okay. 281 00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:54,159 » I think >> my understanding is that in 2018 the 282 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:58,000 select board directed the perming plan and building committee uh to begin a 283 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,559 feasibility stud. >> Okay. For a future park and wreck 284 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:07,520 facility. Great. >> And they initi the per plantability 285 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,880 initiated the process in 2018. They hired abacus. 286 00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:14,000 » Okay. >> And they held public meetings. Right. 287 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:18,080 » The study was paused >> for a number of reasons which you 288 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:21,280 haven't talked about but I will. >> Okay. 289 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:24,240 » Well, it it was paused because of uh the Dale Street Elementary School project. 290 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:30,400 » Okay. >> Um the people who 291 00:22:27,919 --> 00:22:32,880 the the chair of that committee was also the chair of the school building 292 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,679 committee. >> Okay. 293 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:42,480 » Mike Quinn. And uh once we got accepted into the uh 294 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:46,640 the MSBA program, >> he had a lot on his plate, right? He had 295 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:51,039 he had to be the chair of the school building committee and all of a sudden 296 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,440 » priorities, you know, he had he had had to deal with priorities, right? So the 297 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:56,080 school building >> more volunteers here 298 00:22:54,559 --> 00:23:01,760 » school building was more important than the park and rec to 299 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:06,799 » so uh so that was you know that was uh one thing the other was co and then 300 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:11,919 » the other is um if you remember that whole process of 301 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:18,960 what the option that went to town meeting to get voted on 2021 302 00:23:16,159 --> 00:23:24,320 » was a option that had park and wreck using the Dale Street building as their 303 00:23:21,679 --> 00:23:28,320 permanent home. Okay. So, if you're park and wreck and you 304 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:34,000 start a feasibility study, then you pause it for these reasons, 305 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:37,440 it makes sense that why nothing got done with it because they thought they had a 306 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,960 place. Why build a building if I can use the Dale Street, right? So, they waited 307 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:45,120 for the the vote. The vote failed, >> right? That was five years ago, though. 308 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,400 And it's been two years since it was structurally condemned. 309 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:54,480 And then they had a couple years where they had a director of the department 310 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:59,679 » that uh resigned was indicted. I mean it was uh not a good situation. 311 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:04,640 » So all those reasons >> uh we are where we are today. Okay. I'm 312 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:09,520 not I'm not making excuses but I'm trying to balance out the story. Okay. 313 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:13,279 No, I mean I think that was a good story actually honestly last annual meeting 314 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:19,520 when we said ah this is a tough situation you know um the structural 315 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:24,559 engineer said uh the report came in report came in in November and it came 316 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:29,039 time for the the warrants to be written and by the warrants closed and there was 317 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:33,120 a temporary solution that was proposed that was voted on at last year's town 318 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:37,200 meeting so that was I think a reasonable like there's nothing anyone can do right 319 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:42,320 it was a tough situation But this is this year's timeline. It was 320 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:47,679 a year later and there's no new thing. >> So let let me ask you a question. Have 321 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:51,440 you met with Park and Recreck to find out what they've done? 322 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:57,039 » Emmailed Park and Recre twice and they said to come to their regular meetings 323 00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:01,039 which were scheduled after the deadline for this warrant submission. But but 324 00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:06,720 this isn't evolving. >> I know it was evolving. I did meet I did 325 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:09,679 I did meet with the SBC. Uh I did a nice zoom with them and they had really great 326 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,000 feedback and I think they're doing a great job. 327 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:17,679 » But I do think the park and wreck is is uh not supposed to be doing this in the 328 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:22,720 first place. This is not their it is supposed to be done by the PB. 329 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:26,559 » So let me let's talk about that because park and wreck is an elected board. 330 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:29,600 commission isn't elected, >> right? 331 00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:33,120 » Just like the select board, they sort of equal, right, in terms of they they're 332 00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:41,679 both elected officials. >> Um the uh the PB, you know, the PBGC is 333 00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:50,159 appointed by the select board, >> right? Uh they they have um you know, 334 00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:55,679 met with park and wreck over the last two years. They've gone through a 335 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:59,679 process with them where each step along the way they met with the sele. They met 336 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:03,360 with park and wreck. They've talked about the fact that they needed a 337 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,039 temporary solution. They looked at modulars. All that was discussed with 338 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:13,919 the planning the permanent plan building committee like Quinn did. Uh and they 339 00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:17,440 have been, you know, working with them. It's not like it's not like they've 340 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:22,080 they've ignored them. They've been working together. They know they know 341 00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:26,400 there's a shortterm and a long-term problem, right? And they're trying to 342 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:30,320 figure out a they've said it in front of the select board. They said there's 343 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:35,120 there's a short-term need here and then there's a longer term need which has 344 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:39,840 been around for a long time. It's it's sort of the the fifth wheel of the of 345 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:44,480 the town. Nobody, you know, we we've got we've got um a long history of ignoring 346 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:50,080 park and wreck uh building, right? That's that's a fact. Uh but the fact 347 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:53,200 that in the last year and a half that they've done nothing I don't think is 348 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:59,760 appropriate characterization. >> Yeah, I disagree with that. I think that 349 00:26:56,159 --> 00:27:04,000 they have I mean they've they've they've uh 350 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:08,080 they've they've focused on this short-term solution, you know, in the 351 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:11,919 meantime they're they're living out of like a temporary structure. 352 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:16,640 » Do you think that the town believes that there's a plan for the FAFSA center? 353 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,279 » No. I know because there isn't. >> That doesn't mean they've done nothing. 354 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:23,919 » Okay, fine. They've done something. There is still no plan for the FAFSA 355 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:26,080 center years after it it's been structurally condemned. 356 00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:27,679 » Okay. Well, let's let's get it right, though. Let's not say they've done 357 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:33,600 nothing. >> Well, they they should be in charge. The 358 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:37,120 the the the town bylaw says explicitly the permanent planning and building 359 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:39,919 committee shall be in charge of all buildings that are not schools. They are 360 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,159 not in charge. >> And they were they were they were uh 361 00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,520 working with park and rack. They don't they don't in 362 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:50,000 » 2019. >> They don't just go and run out run 363 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,520 around doing stuff without other departments cooperation. It has 364 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,520 » that's what the bylaw says. No, that's what the bylaw says. I'm going to pull 365 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,600 it out. I have it. It says the permanent plan. It 366 00:27:57,919 --> 00:28:03,200 » doesn't say they will ignore other department. They haven't been empowered 367 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,679 in the first place. >> They have been empowered. The select 368 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,120 board appointed them to >> 2018. 369 00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:09,840 » Yeah. >> And so here we are in 2026. 370 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,760 » Yeah. >> And so now we're about to give the the 371 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:20,640 land away to the Where's our plan? So things move. Let's let's agree that 372 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,799 things move painfully slowly in this town. 373 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:27,840 » That's not an excuse. >> Well, it's may not be an excuse, but 374 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:32,240 it's true. It's I'm sitting on the school building committee and God, I 375 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:37,120 wish we passed that vote in 2021, but here I am. Um, and we're going to keep 376 00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:43,520 sgging through this. I also just want to say nobody knows what form the new spoo 377 00:28:41,679 --> 00:28:49,360 is going to take or where it's going to be placed on the land. We know it's 378 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:55,360 going to be in that location at Dale because the voters made it super clear 379 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:59,279 they didn't want it up at Weock but um but I don't know if we're going to 380 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:04,080 use that space for building or not. No one knows. We're gonna get a range of 381 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:07,840 options from first we have to pick an architect. That's going to be a skull 382 00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:12,720 process. Then the architect's going to give us a range of options which we'll 383 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:17,760 have to mull over and then have a series of community meetings where people come 384 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:21,600 in and give their input very slow. You're nodding your head like oh god 385 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:27,520 Michaelelsson talking about how slow it is. But it really is a slow deliberate 386 00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:31,760 process and it's just got to play out. No, no, but you we you've already had 387 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:35,360 meetings where you said you're going to design on top of that land. So, of 388 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,919 course, those are going to be the options. 389 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,120 I've watched >> we're going to consider that among a 390 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,679 range of options. >> So, of course, those are going to be the 391 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:47,360 best options because it's going to look much better when it uses twice as much 392 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:52,799 land. >> I don't neither. Let me let me ask you 393 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:57,360 let me ask I have a long list of questions here but in your petition you 394 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:02,399 talked about that voters have clearly communicated a desire for bathbased 395 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,600 community center and I'm just curious how do you reconcile I know you probably 396 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,320 haven't seen it but in the survey >> I did have not seen the survey 397 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:13,679 » the survey they just did they >> I don't like it 398 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:15,840 » they asked the question and 25% said they prefer FAF 399 00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:18,640 » okay >> 45% prefer other sites 400 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,679 » okay great >> and 30% unsure. So, how do you how are 401 00:30:22,159 --> 00:30:28,279 you so sure? >> I'm not so sure. Well, 402 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,919 the >> you say it's clearly communicated. 403 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:36,240 What's your evidence? >> I just ran through like a decade of 404 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:42,399 please go do >> from the 700 person survey. 405 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,960 » The 700 person survey says that we should go. 406 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:49,679 » It's not clear where the where the location should be based on that survey. 407 00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:56,799 In previous meetings this year, the town has said, "We don't even know where we 408 00:30:52,799 --> 00:31:02,320 can build up in uh um by the hospital hill." The town came up and protested 409 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,799 line out the door saying, "We don't want to." 410 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,600 » When you say the town, it wasn't 700 people. 411 00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:11,520 » Okay? >> It might have been 20 or 25. This is a 412 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:17,360 opinion of 700 people. that you can listen if you're gonna this is clearly 413 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:22,240 delivered minutes before I show up. You have written notes about all the steps 414 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:26,559 that have been taken on how many how this has not been delayed. But in real 415 00:31:23,919 --> 00:31:31,760 life, this FAP center has sat there for 18 months after being structurally 416 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:35,840 condemned. We have our kids out of UCCC on a rolling lease and we're going to 417 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,519 put trailers at Hinkley. And you're telling me I haven't done the research? 418 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,919 » No, no, no. I'm not saying that. I'm asking you how did you reach your 419 00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:46,559 conclusions? >> I reached my conclusions based on the 420 00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:51,840 decade of people saying please build and fine if if you want to amend it and we 421 00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:56,640 can amend it on the floor and say let's put $200,000 to figure out where we 422 00:31:54,240 --> 00:32:00,240 should do a community center. But I do think the voters should have more than 423 00:31:58,399 --> 00:32:05,600 one option which is a school that they're going to have to review by the 424 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:10,159 time they get to choose what school uh plan they want to go after. Why why 425 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:14,559 would why does the uh why should the town meeting override a survey 426 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:23,360 » a survey >> that uses data to evaluate options? 427 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:29,760 » Because we have a beautiful piece of land in the center of our town that the 428 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:35,120 the body in charge of taking care of it has not done that. 429 00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:38,480 » Okay. I mean, and then they they show up with a piece of paper survey saying they 430 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:42,799 don't even have they don't even have to do it. This gets is a get out of jail. 431 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:47,039 Wait, we don't even have to do it. They don't have to do what? 432 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,919 » I ever come up with a plan for now. >> That's not That's not what they said. 433 00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:52,880 That's not what the survey >> I haven't read it. That's because it was 434 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,120 delivered. >> It's a factual survey. That's that's the 435 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:01,360 results of the survey. Okay. I don't know if you saw the select board meeting 436 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,039 in January, but they talk about >> the money select board meeting in 437 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,240 January. >> They talked about the survey then they 438 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,679 also talked about that the money they have they can allocate towards 439 00:33:08,159 --> 00:33:11,440 feasibility study which I think you mentioned in your petition. 440 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,480 » Yeah. >> So 441 00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:17,440 » So why haven't they they're they're working on it. 442 00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:23,039 » No, they're not. They're working on it. >> You haven't met with them. 443 00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:28,320 » I believe all right. I mean the the you know the other thing is I think um the 444 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:33,760 school building committee just put in their newsletter 445 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:38,159 um that the FAF center will only be considered if park and wreck declines 446 00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:43,200 the use of it. >> They're proposing to use 447 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:47,919 » survey shows I'm just telling you this is what the school building committee 448 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:51,919 put on their newsletter. They're they're looking at it as if we're only going to 449 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,679 do something with that land and park a wreck. 450 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,559 » They want to stay as far away from this train wreck as possible. 451 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,799 » Okay. Well, I'm just telling you that's that's what 452 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,039 » that's a very smart that's a very smart thing for them to do. 453 00:33:59,679 --> 00:34:04,039 » That's what the committee put out. >> Love 454 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:10,720 um >> the the body in charge of coming up with 455 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:15,599 a plan for FAB is proposing something completely across town at Hinckley. Does 456 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,280 that give you any indication as to the likelihood that there's going to be a 457 00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:19,919 plan? >> They haven't proposed anything. 458 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,599 » That there is a warrant for them to do something at Hankley. What are you 459 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,240 talking about? >> It's temporary. 460 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,480 » That's not That's not the That's not the community center. 461 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,240 » I know. There's not going to be a community center. That's the point. It's 462 00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:32,399 going to get put as part It's going to be the parking lot of the Dale Street 463 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:36,800 School. >> Okay, let's talk about that. They they 464 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:38,960 have money to complete the feasibility stuff 465 00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:42,399 » since 2018. >> Yes. 466 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:44,000 » I know. I agree. They're they're I mean, we talked about 467 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:48,079 » they're not in charge of that feasibility study anymore based on the 468 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,040 updated bylaws in 2022. They're not supposed to be doing feasibility 469 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,119 studies. The town passed the bylaw saying don't do that. 470 00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:56,800 » They're going to be working with the permanent plan and building committee. 471 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,200 » Doesn't matter. >> They've already been authorized to work 472 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,400 with the >> a decade ago and they haven't done it. 473 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,119 » So, they haven't spent the money. It hasn't been completed. It hasn't even 474 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,520 » it's been paused >> for the last five years 475 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,680 » and they're going to finish it is is what they 476 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,680 » And the reason why the way this is even done is because I've been pushing on 477 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:16,800 this. There was no plan for this until I started pushing on this until my warrant 478 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:21,359 was done. This was never going to happen. And also none of this 479 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:25,440 » I don't know that. I don't know. We'll ask them when they come in. 480 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,920 » You should ask them why >> you're making an accusation. I don't 481 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,400 know if it's true. >> It just so happens to be delivered the 482 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:35,119 day I >> So So I'm presenting here. Just to be 483 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,560 totally fair, I I got an email. >> You think I'm being unfair? 484 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:42,320 » I Yeah, I do. Really do. Yeah, because I got an email on February 20. Hear me 485 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:46,320 out. Two seconds. I got an email on February 23rd saying the survey is 486 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:50,640 active. Please take it. Take five, seven minutes. I took it then. I got an email 487 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:54,240 last Friday saying, "Today is the last day for the survey." I saw that. 488 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:59,200 » We got it today. They probably didn't pull it together over the weekend. Okay. 489 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,680 They've had 36 hours to finalize this. And you're upset that you just got it. I 490 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:06,960 just got it too. >> I know 491 00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:11,839 we're not like hiding the ball here. >> I think that's an accusation that's 492 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:17,680 » that it's not accusation that is accurate. This is dated uh yesterday. 493 00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:20,880 » Okay. And if you had come in two weeks from now, that would have been a lot 494 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:23,839 better. >> Let's call it happen stance. It just so 495 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:27,440 happens. >> Just so happens. 496 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:31,040 » Yeah, it just so happens. Well, it doesn't seem like you guys are in favor 497 00:36:29,359 --> 00:36:34,480 of this type of thing. I think that's really disappointing. You know, very 498 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,560 combative. >> No, we're not going to vote on it. 499 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:44,079 » This has not really been a very great idea, Pete. Glad you came up with all 500 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:48,880 the ideas on how to push this forward. Uh it doesn't seem that way, honestly. 501 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:54,320 » I think that if you want my personal finding, I think that your proposal is 502 00:36:51,599 --> 00:37:00,880 not aligned with stakeholders um their readiness. Okay. I I think that 503 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:04,720 um it it sort of conflicts with ongoing ongoing park and wreck planning. I agree 504 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:07,440 with you. It's not line with park and wreck, but they're not the stakeholder. 505 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,400 » Well, they're elected officials. >> No, but the permanent planning and the 506 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,160 bylaw says that the other body is supposed to do it and we're ignoring 507 00:37:11,839 --> 00:37:17,280 that. >> They're not not in isolation. Okay. They 508 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:23,760 don't do anything in isolation. Uh they work they work with the pound 509 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:28,000 department. Um and then um and I think you left out some reasons for the delays 510 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:31,280 that you know for the last five or six years that that's I just wanted to make 511 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,160 » put in more reasons why there was five or six years of delay. 512 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:40,400 » I think it would have could have been more balanced. Yeah. Yeah. Um 513 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:43,280 so I think um I think your request for funding maybe we could talk about that. 514 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,119 I think that's unnecessary. >> Okay, good. Yeah, the money probably 515 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,920 exists. >> I think the money is there already. 516 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,599 » I agree with you. >> It's not in the revolving fund. It's 517 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:55,599 actually held it's it's separate outside the revolving fund. This is money that 518 00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:57,040 was never spent that the town put in an account. Okay. 519 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,359 » Good. >> Um 520 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:06,079 so you know and we just got the survey so we have to consider that. Okay. Um 521 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:11,359 but >> you know nobody's we're not going to 522 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:19,520 vote on this today but I just wanted to you know get answers to my questions. 523 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:24,240 Yeah. Answer many of them. Um, so, um, 524 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,760 the Council on Aging, did you reach out to them? 525 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,320 » Uh, I didn't reach out to the Council on Aging. No. 526 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:33,280 » Okay. So, they they as far as I know, they haven't requested to relocate. 527 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:36,320 » No, they No, they're not going to relocate. That's not the intent is for 528 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:41,920 them to relocate. The intent is for them to have additional space. 529 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:47,040 » Uh, so it, you know, >> and and have they said they need it? 530 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,640 Uh I listen if they don't want the space then we can have more space for the kids 531 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:55,119 at the craft center which is designed for parks and w uh if they don't want to 532 00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:58,480 be involved then they can choose not to be involved. The design I mean that's 533 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:03,040 what the design will decide. That's the feasibility part. What should we do with 534 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:07,760 the space that has been sitting decrepit in our town for the last two years? 535 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:12,000 That's what the that's been budgeted for seven years. Yeah. That's what the 536 00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:17,520 feasibility study is about. And when it comes down to the PB PBC, 537 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:21,760 » um, you know, you you seem to mention that 538 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,160 they've been excluded from the process, right? 539 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,640 » They were supposed to be the the lead ring leader 540 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,560 » and they and they have been engaged. >> Not I'm not talking about engaged. 541 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:36,480 » Yeah. And and so what's what's preventing them uh from 542 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,160 participating in the process? What's preventing them 543 00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:44,240 » in your opinion >> is the way the bylaw is written is the 544 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:49,440 park and recreation after 2022 passed the town passed it the parks and 545 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:55,440 recreation is supposed to request help from the select board for a feasibility 546 00:39:52,800 --> 00:40:00,240 study for their needs. They did not do that. What they incented was they said 547 00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:06,800 we already received approval from the voters in 201 18 to do a feasibility 548 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:11,359 study. we don't need to ask requests. We have prior authorization in 2018. 549 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:15,359 » So, just a just a point of clarification, which I think will will 550 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:20,320 settle some of this. Um, the update to the bylaw in 2022 was just adding in the 551 00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:23,440 new school committee bylaw. The actual bylaw asking the permanent planning and 552 00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:28,480 building committee to do this was in 2018. And that's when parks and 553 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:31,200 recreation and the select board had permanent planning and building 554 00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:36,480 committee take this project over in 2018. That's how you ended up with 2022 555 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,119 change was just adding in school. >> That was just at the school. Yeah, the 556 00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:41,359 school building committ. >> Yeah. 557 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,640 » Um, have you had any discussions with the 558 00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:51,599 select board? >> Yeah, I emailed them. All three of them 559 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:55,119 » like an in-person discussion back and they provided two 560 00:40:53,839 --> 00:40:58,240 » two of them provided feedback. >> Two select members provided feedback. 561 00:40:57,359 --> 00:41:03,599 Okay. >> Uh, and what was their direction? Uh, 562 00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:07,359 one was like, "This is awesome." And one said, "Uh, you know, I'm think you 563 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,599 should talk to the parks and recreational committee." 564 00:41:09,359 --> 00:41:13,839 » Okay. Which you haven't done yet. >> Which I've not done now. 565 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,359 » Okay. >> Instead, I have their their input right 566 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:20,240 here. It's not my job. 567 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:24,560 » It's not my job to talk to the parks and recreation. I'm a citizen, right? 568 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:30,319 They're the ones with eight years of no plan, not me. Uh it's not my job to go 569 00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:34,079 running around collaborating with the different organizations. 570 00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:37,760 » I I don't want to debate what your job is. You've submitted a citizen. 571 00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:40,160 » I try very hard to move this forward. Yes. 572 00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:45,760 » Okay. And we're we have to make an evaluation and recommendation meeting. 573 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:49,119 So you haven't talked to all these parties that factors into our decision. 574 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,119 » I've talked to the select board. I've talked to the town council on Christmas 575 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:56,720 Eve. I talked to everybody but park and recreation because they did not want to 576 00:41:54,720 --> 00:42:01,920 meet with me and said join our regular meeting which happened to be after all 577 00:41:59,359 --> 00:42:05,920 this stuff was due. I'm sorry. And then they canceled the meeting and then they 578 00:42:03,359 --> 00:42:14,400 finally had one a month ago that I was able to attend which I didn't go to. 579 00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:18,800 » Um but my my what my contribution is not supposed to be to go to a meeting sit in 580 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:23,760 the audience and say hey you guys really should consider it. It's not. 581 00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:29,440 » No, but if you bring a proposal forward to spend money and direct uh you know 582 00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:35,200 committees, >> then we have a that's a fair question to 583 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:40,319 ask. How how have you considered the input of other other committees? 584 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:46,480 » I I it seems self-evident that a plan to do something with the FAP center does 585 00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:50,720 not need me to propose it. uh that should not require me to go to their 586 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:55,359 meeting to say, "Hey, you guys really ought to uh consider a plan to come up 587 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,119 with the replacement for the FAFS center." 588 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,720 » Yeah. >> Uh 589 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:06,079 » so the absence of that does not somehow make this illtimed or uh somehow off 590 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:11,280 agenda. We have a building that's sitting there decrepit that we're 591 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:15,760 storing uh we're storing material in, 592 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:20,240 » right? I mean it seems to me that the core issue here is not lack of 593 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:24,079 alignment. >> It's I mean the core issue is lack of 594 00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:30,079 alignment. Excuse me. It's not lack of study. We we don't have all the parties 595 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:34,160 or stakeholders aligned. Okay. It's not that we haven't studied it. We've done 596 00:43:31,839 --> 00:43:40,240 multiple studies. We don't have multiple we don't have time. Um, and uh, so any 597 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:43,599 rate, um, >> I don't even I don't even have to be 598 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:47,520 involved in a plan, >> but I would hope that there is a plan. 599 00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:51,040 » They don't have to include me. I don't need to be aligned in anything. The 600 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:54,160 parks and recreation committee and or the permanent planning and building 601 00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:58,000 committee should come up with a plan to go do what they're supposed to do. 602 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,520 » Yeah. >> And it doesn't need a survey to say we 603 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:05,520 should come up with a plan to fix the FAB center. I don't think we should do a 604 00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:09,760 feasibility study which has been budgeted, allocated, and hasn't been 605 00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:14,079 done in 8 years. >> I mean, we have a process. If you don't 606 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:17,839 like what elected officials are doing, like the park and wreck people, if you 607 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:21,280 don't like the way they're managing the department or making decisions or moving 608 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,599 things forward, >> you can do a citizens petition, which is 609 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,680 what I did, >> or you can run for park. 610 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:28,480 » I don't want to run for park and recreation committee. 611 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,280 » I want the town. You want to run for select board? 612 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:35,920 » No, I I want the town. This has nothing to do with select board. I want the town 613 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:41,760 to vote to say, "Please go do this plan in time for the uh ability to have a 614 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:45,359 synergy with the Dell Street School." It's really a very simple proposal. 615 00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:48,000 » I mean, what I heard that they're going to do with the school building committee 616 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:50,800 is work in tandem with >> No, they're not. 617 00:44:49,359 --> 00:44:53,359 » You just said, you put it. They want nothing to do with this project. 618 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,720 » I didn't say that. >> The school committee The school building 619 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,760 » put words in my mouth. I didn't >> You read out the thing. that says we 620 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:01,920 will wait to see what happens and recommend recommended by park and 621 00:45:01,359 --> 00:45:06,640 recreation. >> Park and Recre is moving forward with 622 00:45:04,079 --> 00:45:11,680 their feasibility study. They're doing a fiscal they just hired somebody uh who 623 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:15,280 did they hire in in February. >> Uh they saw a proposal from Hunden 624 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,520 Associates Associates based on the cost. they're going to go out. 625 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:22,319 » And so they're they're they're they're they're starting with programming and 626 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:26,000 revenue associated with that programming before they jump into a feasibility 627 00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:30,240 study because they want to know what can they afford, how big of a building can 628 00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:33,680 they support. All right? Then they're going to do a feasibility study. That's 629 00:45:31,839 --> 00:45:38,400 their plan. That's what we'll hear from them. Uh I assume, but u they're going 630 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:43,520 to do that in combination with the school building committee over the next 631 00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:46,640 year. And as they make then they're doing they're going to look at sites. 632 00:45:45,359 --> 00:45:51,920 They're going to do all that stuff. And as they make decisions, they'll let the 633 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:56,880 school building committee know. Yeah. Either we want the FAF land or no, 634 00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:01,920 we don't want it. And then the school building committee will either they'll 635 00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:06,400 they'll they'll either delete a scenario or they'll they'll consider a scenario. 636 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:10,240 » Yeah, I disagree with you. It's not really up to the parks and recreation 637 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:15,520 committee to come up with a plan for Babson. It's not that's not their job. 638 00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:18,000 » It is. >> Now, you think it's the permanent plan 639 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:21,119 in building >> as per the town bylaws. 640 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,119 » What does it say in the >> Let's read it. 641 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,440 » I don't know. Let's Let's Do we have the bylaws? What? 642 00:46:23,839 --> 00:46:28,720 » It says it very very clearly. >> Yeah, let's read it. 643 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:32,400 » I'm not losing my mind. >> It says that they don't have to talk to 644 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,839 any other department or get input from any other department. 645 00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:36,480 » They should do their job. >> It says that in the bylaw. No, the 646 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:40,000 primary planning ability committee could do it however they want. That's I don't 647 00:46:38,319 --> 00:46:43,280 have a point. They don't have a >> Is that the best way to move forward? 648 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:47,280 Not collaborating with anyone. >> I'm not talking. It has nothing to do 649 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:51,119 with I'm not telling the them how to do their job. They are empowered to do it 650 00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:54,720 the way that they're supposed to do it. It has nothing to do with it. 651 00:46:54,160 --> 00:47:02,079 All right. Well, >> that's what's going through my mind is 652 00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:07,520 this board seems perfectly capable of asserting itself to assert its 653 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:11,040 jurisdiction over things if it wants to, >> right? 654 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:16,960 » And if it wanted to say no, damn it, I completely agree. 655 00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:23,440 Building a not park and wreck, they would say so. It says it in the 656 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:29,440 » they our current select board would stamp stamp found on the table and stamp 657 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:34,480 their feet and say so and and and they're not they are cons 658 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:38,960 they seem to be going along with the project as 659 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:44,160 » any user department seeking to construct reconstruct alter enlarge a building 660 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:49,440 under its jurisdiction shall file a project application with the select they 661 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:52,319 did not do time Go ahead. >> Okay. They they have met with the 662 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,160 select. >> They didn't say me. 663 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,000 » Huh? >> They're supposed to file a project 664 00:47:56,240 --> 00:48:01,920 application for the replacement of the FAF center which they did not do. 665 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:05,280 » They did something in 2018. >> No, that's not that. That's not this. 666 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:08,079 » That's it's a replacement for the FAFSA center. What they did in 2018. They did 667 00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:11,200 it. >> Okay. 668 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:14,800 » Yes. They did. It shall refer to the applica it the select board shall refer 669 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:18,160 the application to the select board committee or in the case of a school 670 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:22,079 they should do it to the school building committee. So it should be referred to 671 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,280 this permanent planning and building committee where they can do all the 672 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:29,839 stakeholder alignment. It's not my job to align with everybody's stakeholders. 673 00:48:27,839 --> 00:48:33,119 The town bylaw says they should. >> Does it say that they shouldn't 674 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,119 collaborate with the department? >> Of course they should. I'm not saying 675 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,640 they should. >> Okay. You agree with that? Okay. Good. 676 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:43,119 Why don't we Why don't we end on that then? Uh, and unless there's other 677 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:48,640 questions, we've taken up a lot of time on this one article. So, um, all right. 678 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:53,359 Um, we may have more questions. Uh, 679 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:56,800 » I'll do my best to answer to you. Uh, but, um, thank you. Appreciate the time. 680 00:48:55,839 --> 00:48:59,800 » Thank you for your time. >> Okay. 681 00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:08,559 » All right. Um, is it Tom Harrington? 682 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:15,680 » Yes. Um Bob Reer and Tom Harrington. Why 683 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:19,200 don't you guys come on up and um so 684 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:24,400 you can just introduce yourself to the committee and then uh we'll start get 685 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:30,640 you know this is the Castle Hill sewer system that we're going to talk about. 686 00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:35,280 » Huh? And you're and this is our our resident expert on this talk. 687 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:39,040 » Let's not go that far. I don't need another 688 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:42,720 uh Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the Myers Tom Harrington. I'm an 689 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:46,640 attorney with Harrington Heat with offices in Welsley, Massachusetts, and 690 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:52,240 I'm here representing the Castleville Sewer Association. 691 00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:56,720 And I'm Bob Reer. I live at 275 North Street. I was incorrect. You asked me 692 00:49:54,720 --> 00:50:00,079 how long I'd been in town or I was telling you how long I've been in town 693 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,559 earlier in the elevator. I told you 40 years. I think it's more like 50. 694 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:09,839 » Wow. >> So, it beat this guy over here. 695 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:16,079 Uh but uh in any case uh I've run uh the physical plant along with the assistance 696 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:23,760 of other people in our neighborhood. Um uh that is located at Farm Street and 697 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:28,800 West Street serves 24 homes uh many along Deer all the homes along Deerfield 698 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:36,240 Drive and then along North Street heading down towards Farm Street uh uh 699 00:50:32,319 --> 00:50:44,960 on the easterly side of North Street. And uh so I've had the privilege of 700 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:49,440 knowing what's there for since 1986. >> Great. Excellent. 701 00:50:47,359 --> 00:50:53,760 » Okay. So, uh how do you want to introduce this article? Do you want them 702 00:50:51,359 --> 00:50:57,200 to talk about it and the overview and then 703 00:50:54,160 --> 00:51:00,640 » Yeah, I mean I mean I could also just give you the quick quick down and dirty 704 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:04,880 and you all can correct me where I got it wrong 705 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:09,200 because I have done a lot of reading on this. 706 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:13,440 So you know sewer infrastructure generally lags suburban development many 707 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:18,319 Massachusetts towns. So, private sewer associations were very common in the 708 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:22,400 1950s through about the 1980s. And developers or neighborhood associations 709 00:51:20,319 --> 00:51:26,800 would install pump stations and force manes, connect to a municipal sour uh 710 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:30,319 sewer line or treatment facility, and then they would maintain the system 711 00:51:28,319 --> 00:51:34,720 privately. And it allowed subdivisions to be built even when the town was 712 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:39,920 either unwilling or unable to extend public sewer service. And Castle Hill is 713 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:43,520 one of these legacy private systems owned by this association. in this 714 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,680 group, you know, they've got a force man, a pump station. There's some 715 00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:51,440 easements. And for those that don't know, a force man, it's a pressurized 716 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:56,400 pipe that carries waste water from a pump station, typically uphill or over a 717 00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:00,880 long distance till it reaches a gravity sewer system and goes out. So, it 718 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:07,040 literally is forced pumping it all all out. Um, maintenance. Uh, homeowners 719 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:11,200 typically fund electricity, pump maintenance, repairs, replacement 720 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:16,319 reserves. Um but as the infrastructure ages, replacement costs can be extremely 721 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:20,400 high. Um and municipal takeovers typically arise for a number of reasons. 722 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:25,440 One of them is that force mains typically have a 30 to 50 year life. Um 723 00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:29,520 when they approach failure, repairs can become expensive. Uh environmental risk 724 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:34,319 increases. Um you know, a failing force main can 725 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:38,400 cause sewage spills, groundwater contamination. 726 00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:43,200 Uh there's also governance issues and it's also once you get to the point 727 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:47,920 where a municipality has a sewer system it you know system integration 728 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:51,520 integrating a private system can improve reliability standardized maintenance 729 00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:58,400 allow capital planning through sewer enterprise funds. Um 730 00:52:54,720 --> 00:53:03,520 basically here then went back through a series of you know years here there was 731 00:53:01,359 --> 00:53:09,359 some minutes from the board of water and sewage. Um, back in 2018, uh, the town 732 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:13,760 lawyer gave an opinion that it would be appropriate for Medfield to accept 733 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:18,720 ownership of the pumping station and the force main system contingent upon an 734 00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:22,640 inspection of the equipment, provision for correction of functional 735 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:28,800 deficiencies with the idea that costs for any required remediation would be 736 00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:33,680 paid by the the Castle Hill folks. um you know they would get a engineering 737 00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:38,079 inspection done, identify the issues, fix them and then after the upgrades are 738 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:43,440 completed the transfer is then made to the town to avoid the town inheriting a 739 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:48,559 large deferred maintenance liability. And 740 00:53:45,839 --> 00:53:52,960 basically what I understand here is that as of now more or less all of the 741 00:53:51,359 --> 00:54:02,319 homeowners um have agreed to um fund what is 742 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:07,440 necessary to bring it up to code in order for the town to take over the 743 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:12,240 private system. With this being almost like in legal 744 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:16,400 parlament a sign and close. We're willing to sign on it, but we're not 745 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:23,920 actually willing to spend the money until the town votes to agree to take 746 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:30,400 it, but assuming the town agrees to take it, town meeting, then these folks would 747 00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:35,839 go out, spend the money, bring it up to code exactly what needs to happen, and 748 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:41,760 then it would be transferred over to the town of Medfield. 749 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:48,800 The the only other kind of like real issue that I think I saw was there was 750 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:54,000 one that was um if sewer infrastructure in Massachusetts if sewer infrastructure 751 00:54:50,960 --> 00:55:00,000 is located within a public rideway municipalities have responsibility for 752 00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:05,200 excavating roadway damage, public safety and emergency response even if a pipe is 753 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:11,839 privately owned. So right now the town is in a bit of a a hybrid um situation, 754 00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:16,480 an awkward sit situation where ownership and operational responsibility 755 00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:24,400 diverges, but if there was ever any sort of emergency issue, it's on the town to 756 00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:27,599 respond. And so um you know the town may have to close the road, excavate, 757 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:31,680 coordinate, repair even if the association technically wants the pipe 758 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:36,240 and it risks uh creates risk for the town without control of the asset. 759 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:40,800 makes a whole lot of sense to just transfer the private sewage system to 760 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:45,839 the town. At the same time, here in 2026, we've got financial budgetary 761 00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:50,559 issues. The town doesn't want to take this on. Um doesn't want to assume 762 00:55:48,319 --> 00:55:55,599 ownership without upgrades because then those costs will shift to all sewer 763 00:55:52,720 --> 00:56:02,079 rateayers and not just the association. But as far as I understand association's 764 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:05,760 willing and standing ready to take care of that, 765 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:12,160 we just have to have the town vote of town meeting that assuming that happens, 766 00:56:08,799 --> 00:56:17,599 they'll take it into the system. You better have the Yeah, those 767 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:25,119 association can't afford all of the repair back and it's a $200,000 768 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:29,680 number and does the association have the wheel to to make those repairs or it's 769 00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:33,359 just that it's just null and void can you don't do anything. So I think I 770 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:38,160 think that's what it comes back to when I was reviewing old minutes. You know, 771 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:42,160 there was one thing from the 2018 meeting that mentioned the cost of 772 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:46,880 upgrades, you know, between pump station rehabilitation could easily run on $ 773 00:56:45,359 --> 00:56:52,640 2018, $500,000 plus homeowner disagreement 774 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:56,880 between splitting the capital costs between the homeowners, you know, and 775 00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:59,920 then uncertainty about the infrastructure. 776 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:04,480 Not saying this is what happened here, but one thing in my research 777 00:57:01,839 --> 00:57:08,720 associations sometimes delay inspections to avoid discovering additional 778 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:14,079 expensive problems. But it you know so the past minutes 779 00:57:12,319 --> 00:57:18,319 suggest you know there may have been a combination of all of that but at the 780 00:57:16,799 --> 00:57:23,920 same time when I was talking with Britney and Christine earlier about this 781 00:57:20,799 --> 00:57:28,559 it sounds like the inspection the engineering inspection has already been 782 00:57:25,839 --> 00:57:33,920 done. punch list has already been pulled together. They've already gotten quotes 783 00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:38,880 for exactly what it's going to cost. The 24 homeowners within the association 784 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:44,720 have said, "Yes, we are prepared to fund this right now." With the one caveat 785 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:49,440 being, "We want the town to take it. We'll fix it before we give it to you. 786 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:54,880 We want the town to take." I think that's we're just about there. So, you 787 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:57,599 you did a great job. Like I said, better than I could have 788 00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:01,920 done. >> Yeah. 789 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:07,040 » The uh where we are is uh you're correct. We're looking for the town to 790 00:58:04,799 --> 00:58:13,760 support this and be willing to take it over at which point we would have the 791 00:58:09,839 --> 00:58:16,960 responsibility to uh replace the pumps. We just replaced the generator. We had a 792 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:22,480 fire >> uh and uh that's already been done. Uh 793 00:58:19,839 --> 00:58:30,880 we've scoped the pipes along Deerfield Drive. Um and uh they look incredibly 794 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:37,040 cleanly. We have not scoped all the all the pipes. We're willing to do what we 795 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:42,799 need to do to pay to put this into condition for the town to take it and be 796 00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:47,680 satisfied with that. Um >> what's the estimate of that? Our our 797 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:53,839 estimate now is I think we're looking at closer to 798 00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:56,799 probably $250,000 or so if we do it if 799 00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:00,720 » split split between all the >> Oh yeah. We would divide this amongst 800 00:58:58,559 --> 00:59:04,240 all the homeowners which would be less than anybody putting in a septic system 801 00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:09,520 or replacing. >> Yeah. We do not have total agreement on 802 00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:14,160 that because we're waiting to find out if the town will accept it in that 803 00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:19,200 condition and we have already informed all of our members that this is the 804 00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:25,520 direction that we are headed in and that we are looking forward to town meeting 805 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:30,640 being successful for this and uh that we will be start to look for the funding 806 00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:37,599 from them. So the order of uh the order of events is that the article at town 807 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:41,920 meeting will be to accept this >> it be it'll be to authorize the board of 808 00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:45,839 water and sewage to take this on and actually we have the board of water and 809 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:50,799 » to take it on is any conditions >> yes condition contingent upon it being 810 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:53,359 brought up to uh the standards of the board of water and sewer. 811 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,559 » So that then they have to spend the money. 812 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,000 » Oh yeah. >> Yes. We won't take it over. 813 00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:02,400 » Okay. Can I just walk you through two seconds walk you through the because so 814 01:00:00,799 --> 01:00:05,599 » I did the first draft of the warrant article sent it to Mark Surell and he 815 01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:09,760 did a lot of tuneups to it >> which I think build in a lot of nice 816 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:15,440 protections for the town but so just so you understand the order of operations. 817 01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:21,040 So, the article authorizes the um Medfield Board of Water and Sewage to 818 01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:25,839 acquire by gift or eminent domain. And we think it'll likely be eminent domain, 819 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:28,799 but the requirement is that all damages are waved because, you know, when the 820 01:00:27,359 --> 01:00:33,599 town acquires something by eminent domain, it's required to pay damages. We 821 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:36,720 must wave all damages. So, you're going to need something signed by all our 822 01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:42,160 members saying you get damages. So, it's a zeroing cost. Um what they're 823 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:46,559 acquiring is the gravity main force main pump station any lift stations and allo 824 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:51,200 pertinance there too necessary to transmit sanitary sewage from Deerfield 825 01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:54,319 along North Street and Farm Street to Black Smith's Drive where where the 826 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:59,440 sewer line connects to the town's municipal sewer system together with any 827 01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:04,319 and all rights and that was the the any and all rights piece is what Mr. Hunt 828 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:08,160 authority too. We're going under public. You know, it's our pipe, but it's under 829 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:12,079 your road. So, we want to make sure that we give you clean title there. So, we're 830 01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:17,040 we're we're guaranteeing you get everything you need. 831 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:21,440 And I think the end part is is the the real protection. 832 01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:24,880 um provided that the pump station mains and 833 01:01:23,359 --> 01:01:29,520 other infrastructure have been repaired and or replaced and or are otherwise in 834 01:01:27,359 --> 01:01:34,799 good working order and will not require town or board to incur substantial 835 01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,720 expense for upgrade as determined by said water and sewage. 836 01:01:36,319 --> 01:01:39,920 » Okay. >> Or do anything else there too. So, I 837 01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:44,240 think >> we're comfortable with this, but I think 838 01:01:41,599 --> 01:01:48,400 they've put us in a nice box so that they don't need to they don't need to do 839 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:51,440 anything until they're satisfied that we've met all of them. 840 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:56,720 » Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> And I would add, I think this offers a 841 01:01:53,920 --> 01:02:02,240 protection to the town, a proper one. I believe we're the only 842 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:07,480 run force man now in the town. >> You don't really want me running this. 843 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:15,000 thinking of Bob running is what keeps me up at night. 844 01:02:15,839 --> 01:02:23,839 » So, um we we hope you will look on our petition favorably 845 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:26,960 » and water and sew supports. >> Board of Water and Sewage has agreed to 846 01:02:25,359 --> 01:02:31,599 sponsor the article, not a citizens petition. Um and they have been working 847 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:35,040 closely with them for a very long time to get this to 848 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:40,160 » Okay. When the generator was replaced, Mo signed off on it. 849 01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:43,440 » He we asked him kind of what kind of pump you want up there. 850 01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:46,720 » You had a question. >> What's the incremental cost of the town 851 01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:50,079 after this is all done? I know it's going to be divided among all the rate 852 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:54,559 payers of town, but what would be the there's going to be some cost of 853 01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:58,960 absorbing this. >> Uh I'm not saying there isn't, but I I 854 01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:01,839 don't know that I would tell you what that 855 01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:07,119 » be operational expenses of what electricity 856 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:10,400 propane in case we lose power. Uh, and maintenance. By the way, just speaking 857 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:16,640 of maintenance, because you talked about that a little bit, the the uh generator 858 01:03:14,319 --> 01:03:22,960 and the twin redundant pumps that are that operate the system have been uh 859 01:03:19,839 --> 01:03:28,559 under service contracts with the original people that started in 1986 860 01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:33,440 since day one and they have been maintained and are visited during the 861 01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:38,480 year. So you may have experiences where people don't. Wind River comes in and 862 01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:43,760 pumps out. We have a holding tank. They come in and they do it every year and uh 863 01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:47,359 APC is in there making sure the mice keep 864 01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:51,039 my the broader public safety issue here. If 865 01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:54,480 there is a failure, >> right? 866 01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:58,079 » That's the big there's a failure the town's got to deal with it anyway. 867 01:03:56,319 --> 01:04:01,280 » Yeah. the private sewer >> because you can't you can't have you 868 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:06,079 know it feeds into the main system. >> Right. Right. The private sewer located 869 01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:10,480 in the public way. The town is responsible for failures of accidents. 870 01:04:08,319 --> 01:04:12,240 There's a risk to the town. Yeah. Right. Now anyways, 871 01:04:11,599 --> 01:04:15,359 » right. >> Exactly. 872 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:18,640 » This seems like a reasonable >> Yeah. 873 01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:21,880 » How many how many years you working on this solution? 874 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:29,359 » Um >> with me since 2019. 875 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:32,359 I I think we started in in the the 1900s. 876 01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,799 » That's fair. >> And we don't let developers do this 877 01:04:35,839 --> 01:04:40,640 anymore, right? >> We would not let anybody. 878 01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:45,440 » Good. Any other questions for these fine 879 01:04:42,799 --> 01:04:50,920 gentlemen? >> Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. 880 01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:57,359 » Thanks, guys. I'm sorry. 881 01:04:58,799 --> 01:05:01,599 Thank you guys. Thank you. >> Thank you. 882 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:04,760 » Thank you. >> Thank you. 883 01:05:07,599 --> 01:05:19,480 » I I'm ready. I'm ready to talk about filtration and inflow later too. 884 01:05:14,319 --> 01:05:19,480 Mo will be proud next year. 885 01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:27,400 I think everybody well maybe the new members don't know this is Jeff Dearrow 886 01:05:27,839 --> 01:05:36,880 » Woodall Woodall um >> from uh the conservation 887 01:05:34,319 --> 01:05:40,559 » a hardworking group >> based upon the materials you gave us. 888 01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:44,240 Yes, you're a hardworking group. Well, I'm I'm really sorry about that, but we 889 01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:47,520 we have received a lot of income just the last minute and and I want I just 890 01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:52,160 want to thank you so much for taking your time and just really thank you for 891 01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:56,160 all the work that you're doing as we start out and I want to, you know, so 892 01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,880 John's here to answer if you have technical engineering type questions and 893 01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:01,920 I'm here to give you >> I'm just here to sit here. She said, 894 01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:06,000 » you know, I'm gonna give you the overview and we'll see how we kind of 895 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:09,920 give you information best. But I also want to thank Ashley who's been really 896 01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:13,119 helpful for guiding us and Pete thank you too because we met with them today 897 01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:16,640 and I want to say that that the conversation was really important and 898 01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:21,599 helpful because what it did is inform us in a way with detail about the financial 899 01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:24,319 challenges that you're all facing and trying to make a you know a budget 900 01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:29,680 that's going to work for everybody's best interests. And in light of that 901 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:33,520 conversation, I know that um you know, our our thought was to take some of the 902 01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:37,119 information. We'd like to work tonight collaboratively and have a conversation 903 01:06:35,359 --> 01:06:42,000 and try to figure out what works best with for our two warrant articles. And 904 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:46,799 one is the $50,000 request for dam safety tree removal work. And the other 905 01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:52,160 is a $5,000 request for the conservation trust fund, which is intended actually 906 01:06:48,799 --> 01:06:56,079 for dam safety inspection work. Um but given the new information or just the 907 01:06:54,160 --> 01:07:00,880 detail the illumination of the situation and information we've received recently 908 01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:04,880 from power engineering we think a conversation the collaboration would be 909 01:07:02,559 --> 01:07:09,359 really helpful and to the extent that that might lead to you know a suggestion 910 01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:15,599 that we would withdraw the article for this year um that would require a vote 911 01:07:12,799 --> 01:07:18,000 by the full commission which would be on March 19th 912 01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:23,119 » March 19th >> which would be next Thursday. Okay. So I 913 01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:26,720 I just want to preface our conversation and your questions with that. I did 914 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:31,359 submit something. I don't know if you had a chance to read it. Not all 345 915 01:07:29,039 --> 01:07:35,920 pages of exhibits, but there were about six pages that just gave you a brief 916 01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:40,960 sort of chronology, identified what we've done, the information that was 917 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:46,880 recently received and sort of um brought to our attention again really within the 918 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:51,119 last month or so of some of the in, you know, the pieces that make this more 919 01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:54,400 complicated than we had anticipated. And that would be we thought originally when 920 01:07:52,799 --> 01:07:58,799 we started this that there were about 10 trees 10 or 12 trees and they were all 921 01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:02,640 located on town property and it turns out that after we had the preliminary 922 01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:08,720 engineering information back that there are 36 trees out of about 15 of those 923 01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:13,359 are located on a butter's properties. Um so it necessitates involvement of people 924 01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:18,400 outside of the town. Additionally the access route was anticipated to be over 925 01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:23,520 just town owned property at the dam for the Daniels and Pond Dam issue. Um and 926 01:08:21,199 --> 01:08:27,759 it turns out actually that the more coste effective, safer and more 927 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:31,279 efficient route would be through a butters properties. 928 01:08:29,279 --> 01:08:35,199 » You could say vastly more >> right vastly more um and uh we have 929 01:08:34,719 --> 01:08:38,799 reached out >> what kind of approvals do you have to 930 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:42,719 get from Butters to do that. >> So I talked to Mark Sorell about that as 931 01:08:40,719 --> 01:08:47,279 a preliminary matter and we would need a number of different approvals. Um we 932 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:52,799 there was you know sort of informal feedback that the abutters had you know 933 01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:56,080 were open to this and we confirmed that with a letter that was sent I don't I 934 01:08:54,880 --> 01:09:00,319 send you a copy of that but it was a letter that was sent with a lot of det I 935 01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:04,640 think it's 70 or 345 pages but it was sent with a lot of detail um identifying 936 01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:09,199 all of these issues the fact that they have trees on their property that those 937 01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:13,440 trees are what we call like the removal zone which is identified by the dam 938 01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:17,199 safety you know licensed engineers and according according to state regulations 939 01:09:15,679 --> 01:09:22,159 um and that they would have to be removed for the tree removal work that 940 01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:27,040 the better access routes through their their property. Um so there's a lot of 941 01:09:24,719 --> 01:09:31,839 detail in terms of how this these issues are complicated and interrelated and we 942 01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:37,600 had two preliminary emails back feedback back saying that they um didn't that 943 01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:40,719 they they were open to having equipment, you know, go through their property, be 944 01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:44,880 staged on their property or accessed on it and having their trees removed. But 945 01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:49,120 that again is without any legal documentation which would require a 946 01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:52,719 right of entry just to go on their property to do further site 947 01:09:50,799 --> 01:09:56,960 investigation to see if there's additional permitting that would be 948 01:09:54,159 --> 01:10:00,480 required. Um it would you know then it would be more development of plans which 949 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:04,159 would indicate what type of equipment would it would traverse their property 950 01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:08,159 or be stationed on their property. We have an idea that the work would take 951 01:10:05,679 --> 01:10:11,440 about a week to complete with some costs associated with that with the increased 952 01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:16,320 number of trees. Um, >> just just to back up a little bit 953 01:10:13,679 --> 01:10:20,880 because we do have a couple new members on the committee that that didn't hear 954 01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:25,360 some of the history. Okay. That you came >> forward with last year. 955 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:28,719 » So, if you can maybe just summarize that a little bit 956 01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:32,960 » even I'm I'm happy to do that. Deb and I have been working and John over the past 957 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:39,840 year to figure out what to what to do about the damn dam. Um in 2018 we 958 01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:46,000 received a consent decree um that said that there what level of kind of issues 959 01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:51,280 it had and we had a kind of higher level of issues that have to be taken care of. 960 01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:56,960 is classified as a significant hazard dam which then triggers a number of in 961 01:10:54,719 --> 01:11:01,120 sort of consequences which include those regular periodic and inspections at 962 01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:04,080 least two inspections a year and then a recommended list of actions including 963 01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,440 removal. >> It's really more accurate to say we were 964 01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:12,880 supposed to have made the repairs >> under consent and that having not made 965 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:17,520 the repairs we then have to continue to do inspections until we do make the 966 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:23,120 repairs. So conservation commission since 2018 has been evaluating 967 01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:29,360 uh how to move forward on this. One of the ideas is to take those trees down. 968 01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:34,080 But there's many other options that are worth exploring. Um which that's why 969 01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:38,400 conservation commission is kind of potentially going back to explore those 970 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:42,320 other options including you know taking care of the dam itself 971 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:47,600 that it would no longer exist or draining the water from the pond. um to 972 01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:53,679 get a better direction of like what's the ultimate goal and how can we save 973 01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:58,960 the town money long term, you know, because we can't keep investing money on 974 01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:02,800 a band-aid. Um so that's kind of where we are today. I'd like to just add to 975 01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:07,920 that that I think what precipitated the the recent activity was the tree fell 976 01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:13,679 like a very like 100 foot tall like broad-based pine tree did um fall 977 01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:18,719 epidemary 2024 and when those and then it fell not 978 01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:24,239 it didn't split from you know like halfway but it it just um you know fell 979 01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:29,600 and the root ball came out which was like 8 to 10 feet in diameter and that 980 01:12:27,679 --> 01:12:34,400 of course seriously compromises is the earth and burm pointed and then there 981 01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:37,840 are just those number of trees all along that earth and burm and some of them are 982 01:12:36,159 --> 01:12:43,199 dead but they're still standing but they're all very sustainably old pines 983 01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:48,480 and the danger was you know what happens and in order to address that tree fall 984 01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:52,880 any work that was done which work was required required reporting again to the 985 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:57,760 office of dam safety in Massachusetts so in 2024 they knew that we had an 986 01:12:55,360 --> 01:13:00,640 emergency repair and a significant issue that required permitted work at the 987 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:04,480 site. >> And it's actually worse than just the 988 01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:08,960 trees falling over. If the trees don't fall over, their root systems tend to 989 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:16,239 create channels that then you can start a leakage. 990 01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:18,480 » So, so we we've kind of uh last year we authorized money. 991 01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,120 » Yes. >> And you found out that wasn't enough. 992 01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:30,400 That's what it and so you come back again and in this process 993 01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:33,360 through discussions with Pete and Ashley maybe I don't want to put words in your 994 01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:38,080 mouth but you maybe discovered that there's there's a lot of other there's 995 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:42,480 there's some unanswered questions or potential solutions that 996 01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:49,040 maybe you might need more time to explore. Yeah, the original 997 01:13:46,239 --> 01:13:53,520 car engineering provided us with three options in each of in each of those 998 01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:55,840 options you would need to remove the all the trees. Yeah. 999 01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:59,840 » The question is are there other options where you would not need to? Yeah. And 1000 01:13:58,239 --> 01:14:03,760 so does it make sense to remove the trees if you end up not needing to? 1001 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:08,239 » If you if you don't need to >> um 1002 01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:13,360 » spend the money um is there another option I guess. And so that's that's 1003 01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:18,480 what's causing some pause. I guess >> that's piece of it. I mean, we suspect 1004 01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:22,239 that the trees would need to be removed. It's very Jonathan's very likely. He's 1005 01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:26,480 the engineer, but there is a possibility, 1006 01:14:24,239 --> 01:14:32,159 but that question would have to go back to par. So there would have to be money 1007 01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:37,920 spent to go back to the cons the consultants that we've been using to 1008 01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:42,640 investigate these you know sort of open sort of pieces that really have come up 1009 01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:49,440 in the last >> few weeks. Um there is money left from 1010 01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:53,760 the $50,000 that so when we started I think I put a breakdown in the the 1011 01:14:51,360 --> 01:15:00,000 paperwork I gave you but we requested $50,000 last year and we committed by 1012 01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:04,880 contract um to do the data collection work that was completed this fall and 1013 01:15:02,239 --> 01:15:12,560 early December that gave us a lot of this information and that was 24,900. 1014 01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:16,800 Now of that we have data collection and drawings which we received and the 1015 01:15:14,719 --> 01:15:22,560 balance of that which I think is 13,000 of the 24,09 1016 01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:28,080 um was allocated for permitting. We have not started the permitting yet. So we 1017 01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:33,440 don't know what PAR would do in case we ask for you know change order type of 1018 01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:36,159 amendment to the contract. Um on the other hand, if we have to go forward 1019 01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:42,640 with the permitting, the permitting typically is good for three years 1020 01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:46,239 to do the trees within three years. >> Is there a cost to going through and 1021 01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:49,760 getting all these approved property owners rules? 1022 01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:53,280 » We think that that would be done really with with town council because town 1023 01:15:51,679 --> 01:15:55,840 council will be drafting on behalf of the town and the property owners would 1024 01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:59,280 then >> How many are there? 1025 01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:02,400 » Oh, there's only two. >> Okay. 1026 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:05,840 » Right. Um, and they would consult with their own attorneys. And 1027 01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:10,159 » when you said there's only two, you mean there's only two trees. 1028 01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,600 » Correct. If there were only six or seven. 1029 01:16:10,719 --> 01:16:16,560 » Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. There are two trees. And it's 1030 01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:19,679 really one of the two that the access would be required for us. 1031 01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,679 » And have you had preliminary conversations with them? 1032 01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:25,120 » Yes. >> And they're on board. 1033 01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:28,320 » We're on board. Yeah. >> They're they're very 1034 01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:32,080 » they've been notified. We're going to say they've been notified with a lot of 1035 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:38,000 detail that would give them reason to know um that they should consult with 1036 01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:42,960 family members and with attorneys who's not certain of everybody's family 1037 01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:48,480 situation and it was a there was a lot of detail um 1038 01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:52,320 » and they should consult just and the town would want them to 1039 01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:57,360 consult with someone and not >> the preliminary reaction was positive 1040 01:16:55,199 --> 01:17:02,560 » and that's all we're going to say. We also discussed that should the state 1041 01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:08,159 show up tomorrow and say what's going on here you can show that you've been doing 1042 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:13,440 work in good faith right and that we are also evaluating all options on the table 1043 01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:17,840 to figure the ultimate best path forward um which requires 1044 01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:23,199 » right and con has only been actively involved in managing this property since 1045 01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:28,960 2024 when the tree fell so anything that went on before that I'm not exactly sure 1046 01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:33,600 who decision makers were or how that the decisions to fund that were made, but 1047 01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:38,719 Kongcom's active involvement has been since 2024 when the treat. So yes, we 1048 01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:43,120 feel very confident that the documents we've worked hard to document everything 1049 01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:45,679 that we've done and to be consistent in efforts so that at least if the state 1050 01:17:44,719 --> 01:17:50,640 were to come in, >> but you you're kind of just managing it 1051 01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:53,440 at this point. You there's no real >> long-term solution here that's been 1052 01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:57,280 decided >> that's been identified or decided no. 1053 01:17:55,440 --> 01:18:01,360 You mentioned like three scenarios. All the woods require trees the trees coming 1054 01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:04,000 down. Yeah. Give us a quick what are those three? 1055 01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:08,560 » Basically it's you know repairing the dam so that what changing the design of 1056 01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:14,320 the dam as well as repairing it so that it's structurally stable but also so 1057 01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:19,040 that it's totally passive that it just overflows automatically. 1058 01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:24,719 Whereas now it re it really you it the dam as it is now there's stop logs that 1059 01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:29,360 you can remove and it requires active management in case of a large storm or 1060 01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:34,719 flood in order for it to be safe. There's the the the options that all the 1061 01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:39,760 options actually that were looked at would be totally passive in that case 1062 01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:45,600 not requiring any active management. So there's one option that there's 1063 01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:51,600 basically two types of make the dam taller and passive and then there's a 1064 01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:55,360 third which is remove the dam >> together the state 1065 01:18:53,920 --> 01:19:00,080 » but the first step in removing is removing the trees and then bring 1066 01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:04,080 » but the state the state will not finance the um they're not giving out money 1067 01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:08,560 grants >> they give out far more grants for 1068 01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:11,600 removal than they do for repair >> for repair. 1069 01:19:09,679 --> 01:19:14,000 » It's not that they give out none, but it's far more it's far easier to get 1070 01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:18,000 money for. >> So the cost of those first two options 1071 01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:20,480 or is that a repair? Is that considered a repair? 1072 01:19:18,719 --> 01:19:25,360 » It's considered repair. Yes. >> And removal cost you estimate to be 1073 01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:31,040 » the removal costs the way they were estimated by the engineer the same as 1074 01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:33,760 the repair costs. That was the keep >> the removal cost drains it. So there is 1075 01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:37,840 no more pond. >> Yes. It it's more it's it's actually 1076 01:19:35,679 --> 01:19:43,199 more complicated than just draining it because there's a lot of permitting that 1077 01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:45,920 goes on. It's restoring it to certain riverine functions. 1078 01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:49,360 » Riverine function. There's there's a lot that has to happen. 1079 01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:53,120 » The other thing that ends up being important is that you've accumulated a 1080 01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:56,400 lot of sediment behind the dam and there's a good chance that that sediment 1081 01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:59,920 is going to be contaminated and that they're not going to want to just have 1082 01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:03,679 that get swept down the river into the Charles. And so if we then have to 1083 01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:07,120 remove that sediment and do something with it, then that's a lot of cost. 1084 01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:12,560 » It's complicated. >> I can imagine. Yeah. 1085 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:17,600 » And you know, and the debate here and we talked last year is that, 1086 01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:22,960 you know, we have a group of homeowners, was it five or seven that live around 1087 01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:28,719 the pond that like to have a pond view. Um, and the cost of doing these options 1088 01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:33,280 is pretty significant. So who who bears that cost is kind of the that's why this 1089 01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:36,719 has dragged on so long because there's a disagreement 1090 01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:41,199 » and we should pay for it >> and and and there was the hope that the 1091 01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:45,120 state would fund it. Yeah. And it was applied for each year but each each year 1092 01:20:43,199 --> 01:20:48,719 it's been rejected. So >> was applied for for a couple of years 1093 01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:56,239 but the cost the estimates are are dating back to 2021. So the estimates 1094 01:20:52,800 --> 01:21:00,960 for the work did not include um using DPW to do any of the work and so the 1095 01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:04,400 estimates aren't really good estimates. The data is not really available to use 1096 01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:07,600 at this point in time. >> And again that's that's a little bit 1097 01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:11,679 weird because you know when you use DPW to do work it means they're not doing 1098 01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:13,920 something else. So it's it's not you know 1099 01:21:12,159 --> 01:21:18,960 » Yeah. >> So how do you want to you p you know 1100 01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:25,600 move forward on this? you want to talk to your committee then let us know. 1101 01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:29,280 » We can What are your concerns for us so that we can bring those back? 1102 01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:33,679 » I mean my my personal I'll let other people talk but my personal concern is 1103 01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:39,679 that um that that we keep spending money on it 1104 01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:42,719 right and that we don't make hard decision. 1105 01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:48,159 » Yes. Um, and I don't know how we forced that hard 1106 01:21:44,719 --> 01:21:51,679 decision, but um, I don't know if that's your role either, 1107 01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:57,360 but you you're you charge of care, custody, control of the of the property. 1108 01:21:54,480 --> 01:22:02,800 » So, I don't know if that's a role you think you can play to sort of get people 1109 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:07,840 to to agree on a solution here. They think 1110 01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:12,080 we've looked at it this ultimately is that whatever the long-term solution is, 1111 01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,719 it's going to end up going to town meeting through ultimately through your 1112 01:22:13,679 --> 01:22:17,920 committee because it's going to be a sum of money that the town the people in 1113 01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:21,520 vote >> and that to be fair to everybody 1114 01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:25,360 involved in the process where you have maybe six really, really, really 1115 01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:29,120 invested people around the pond and then other people who appreciate it aesthetic 1116 01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:33,199 value and its historic value. >> There are people who fish in it, 1117 01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:38,400 » right? um that it's a conversation that we should try to invite the community in 1118 01:22:35,679 --> 01:22:43,360 to have so that everybody has all of the information um and understands 1119 01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:46,880 everything they can about the pond. We did our pond assessments which you gave 1120 01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:50,480 us money for and that was really helpful in giving us more definition of the 1121 01:22:48,639 --> 01:22:54,880 nature and type of this pond and the lifespan of this pond because it will 1122 01:22:52,639 --> 01:22:58,719 become increasingly shallow over time and we're not talking hundreds of years 1123 01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:03,280 and the vegetation has already started to move in and so it 1124 01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:07,600 » the rate of filling in is likely to actually increase with time if anything 1125 01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:11,360 because the vegetation starting to that's without doing anything 1126 01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:14,960 » unless we do something to reverse that which it would again would engineer from 1127 01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:19,679 an engineering perspective as possible as well. You can excavate the dam. It's 1128 01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:23,120 just that that's very expensive very >> and you have the settlement issue if 1129 01:23:21,440 --> 01:23:27,040 there are any contaminants in it. >> I mean I mean we I don't I don't think 1130 01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:31,120 it's a secret. We have very large capital needs as a town. 1131 01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:36,560 » I'm not sure where this on a priority would fall, but clearly it's not going 1132 01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:40,239 to be ahead of some of the the big >> I think there's no question at all. 1133 01:23:38,159 --> 01:23:44,159 » Yeah. So, do you have other items that we can 1134 01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:48,880 put on our list to bring to the commission for 1135 01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:56,960 » Peter? So, so what we spoke about this morning, 1136 01:23:53,679 --> 01:24:04,960 which is sort of the blunt approach that I proposed 1137 01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:12,080 is uh let's drain the pot. Um, I think the Office of Dam Safety 1138 01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:17,760 is proposing that ponds be eliminated. Uh, and I think they would be 1139 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:19,520 » You mean they're proposing dams be not ponds? 1140 01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:22,639 » Yes. Well, >> yes, 1141 01:24:20,639 --> 01:24:30,639 » the ponds will go if the dams go. But yes. Um, uh, and and I think they be 1142 01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:34,880 fine with it. Now, can I say that to an absolute certainty? No. I obviously 1143 01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:41,520 can't say that with an absolute certainty, but but that that's the 1144 01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:47,760 approach I would favor taking. And so I think the idea of taking this uh item 1145 01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:53,760 off the warrant for this year, going back asking part, look at that seriously 1146 01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:59,600 as an option. What are the what do you what are the steps you have to take to 1147 01:24:56,159 --> 01:25:06,159 just talk about just draining the pond? Um then if something remains to be done 1148 01:25:02,719 --> 01:25:12,400 with the trees, it doesn't. You can just have Mo go down with a chainsaw and take 1149 01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:17,199 down the trees and leave the roots in the embankment. And there's no longer a 1150 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:23,440 body of water behind it to filter through, which is John's concern 1151 01:25:20,239 --> 01:25:29,760 » and and and legitimate concern. Not be dismissive of it at all. Um and and then 1152 01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:34,480 the problem just sort of goes away. I'm not saying that's going to be a Z 1153 01:25:32,239 --> 01:25:39,199 solution, but hope >> I think it'll be actually it'll be much 1154 01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:42,960 more than zero dollars if you ask part of their opinion on what was required to 1155 01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:46,480 do this. Not not because of the engineering cost, but because 1156 01:25:44,480 --> 01:25:50,560 » the permitting and everything else, >> all of the associated permitting and the 1157 01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:56,080 fact that you still are going to have an issue with the um sediment behind the 1158 01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:58,480 dam and what happens to that when you do this. 1159 01:25:56,800 --> 01:26:04,480 » And then the other issue is going to be that it it there's a slle with retaining 1160 01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:10,080 walls. And if that stays in place, if you have a large rain, it you still 1161 01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:13,760 accumulate water behind the dam. actually a lot of water because it can't 1162 01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:18,560 come out through the hole fast enough and and so again the dam still functions 1163 01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:22,480 as a dam in that case. So there's still potentially a safety issue. I think that 1164 01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:26,159 that's what we'll hear but it's certainly worth asking somebody who's an 1165 01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:30,800 actual real damage. >> Yeah. Does that cost money to have them 1166 01:26:28,239 --> 01:26:35,080 do that study? Yes, it does. To have them think about things cost 1167 01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:42,400 » write things down cost. >> This estimate you have here of 50,000 1168 01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:45,120 that was to take care of trees. >> That's the trees. Yeah. 1169 01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:52,960 » Um >> but you could use some of that 50. 1170 01:26:48,719 --> 01:26:57,280 We we have funds from you know that we already allocated to farm that could be 1171 01:26:55,679 --> 01:27:01,360 redirected. So I'm wondering if rewarding this article is to to say that 1172 01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:05,760 it's be used for either or 1173 01:27:04,480 --> 01:27:09,120 or or both. You know, in other words, don't restrict it to just read. Allow 1174 01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:14,560 yourself to >> to do the to use some of this money for 1175 01:27:11,440 --> 01:27:19,440 the study that you that we need to get to the information to make this hard 1176 01:27:17,440 --> 01:27:24,960 decision. You know what I'm saying? >> It isn't it is not clear to me whole 1177 01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:28,639 statement whether we have enough left over from fiscal 25. 1178 01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:33,679 » Okay. Okay. >> To do this and I have to look to you 1179 01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:37,600 guys to tell me that if you got enough, we don't have to appropriate more. 1180 01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:44,159 That's wonderful. If we don't, obviously, we listen to that. So right 1181 01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:48,719 now we thought we had we had the $50,000 that you gave us from the town gave us 1182 01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:55,280 from 2025 and then there was an the funds from 2019 that were about at the 1183 01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:59,760 time left over like 26,887 but I think we've had some inspection 1184 01:27:56,880 --> 01:28:05,840 costs apply to those. So my figures are they're down to 22,000 give or take. So, 1185 01:28:02,719 --> 01:28:12,159 we probably have if if we have to pay par the full amount of money that is 1186 01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:16,480 owed on the $24,900 contract, which they might be willing to 1187 01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:21,440 amend, particularly if they're getting another contract to do different sub 1188 01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:24,560 nature of work, which would mean that they're not doing the permitting. We 1189 01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:29,040 take the permitting costs out, which would save us about $13,000. if they 1190 01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:35,199 were willing to do that, we would probably have to end up 41,000 and but 1191 01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:42,000 then we're less like the 4,000. So 37 35 um 1192 01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:50,080 I had so I had available 41,000 but that's going to be less the 4,000 it's 1193 01:28:46,480 --> 01:28:53,760 going to be less 26 - 22 it's going to be less 4,000 so it's going to be like 1194 01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:59,840 around 37,000 but it could be done plus so it's going 1195 01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:04,639 to be lowest around 30,000 and at the most it might be another 1196 01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:09,600 » it's likely going to be we just do like an engineering study, 1197 01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:12,639 it's likely going to be enough >> to do that 1198 01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:16,400 » because I we already have the data >> without 1199 01:29:14,159 --> 01:29:18,639 asking for the addition. Yeah, if if that's the direction 1200 01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:23,199 » that sounds like that's a better direction at least that or you know the 1201 01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:27,760 way to go through the process that gives you information before you spend the 50. 1202 01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:30,719 But but keeping in mind just so that we're all on the same page is that 1203 01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:36,080 that's using the money that's in that 2019 account which has also been talked 1204 01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:41,120 about using that for funding the inspections that are required as we go 1205 01:29:38,239 --> 01:29:45,280 forward. So, we would still need money for inspections, which is actually why 1206 01:29:43,199 --> 01:29:49,920 when we did this as a preliminary matter, we thought maybe the way to set 1207 01:29:47,679 --> 01:29:53,840 aside money for the inspections and know that we have it would be to have a dep, 1208 01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:59,440 you know, money funded in the conservation trust fund. Um, I don't 1209 01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:02,400 know if that would be an more, you know, >> before we talk about before we talk 1210 01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:09,280 about that though, let me just ask a question. the original 26 or whatever 1211 01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:14,639 the number is that was that article that that where that original uh allocation 1212 01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:17,760 came from did that have what was the the wording of that article and the use 1213 01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:24,280 » well that's a pro that's that's complication so that's on your 345 pages 1214 01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:24,280 but um that 1215 01:30:26,159 --> 01:30:33,280 original wording was it granted the select board the authority and 1216 01:30:30,480 --> 01:30:40,400 consultation with the conservation commission to um use it for I think it 1217 01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:44,800 was for the the for essentially engineering consulting services for I 1218 01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:48,159 think the alternatives analysis that they did in 2020. So that's it. Yeah. 1219 01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:52,400 Yeah. >> So it is really $26,888. 1220 01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:55,679 So >> and this this really what we're really 1221 01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:59,600 talking about is expanding the alternatives. 1222 01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:02,639 » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. 1223 01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:05,679 » You do that first before you start cutting down trees. 1224 01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:08,159 » Yeah. I'm >> sorry I missed that part. 1225 01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:13,040 » Figure out what this is going to involve. Mhm. 1226 01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:18,239 » You get a good hopefully plan going forward and then maybe this time next 1227 01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:21,600 year we take our look at this. >> I I think it's unlikely we get out of 1228 01:31:20,239 --> 01:31:24,239 cutting down the trees but >> Okay. Okay. 1229 01:31:22,639 --> 01:31:28,800 » There there is a logic still. >> Do you have did the timing of that have 1230 01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:31,840 to be like do you need do you need the 50 to do that? Does it have to be done 1231 01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,800 this year with trees? >> Yeah. 1232 01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:36,800 » No. >> No. 1233 01:31:33,199 --> 01:31:40,679 » I mean it had to be done 2018. Okay. >> Okay. So it's not urgent 1234 01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:50,880 » I mean it really needs to be a shared risk because if another tree falls like 1235 01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:54,800 there could be anything that could happen that we can't predict right which 1236 01:31:53,440 --> 01:31:59,040 is why it really needs to be a conversation and a and a shared you know 1237 01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:04,400 sort of understanding in a shared way >> you think we're gonna have to cut some 1238 01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:06,400 trees question is how many right and how much 1239 01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:09,760 » that's actually true it could well be that cut down fewer for one research. 1240 01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:14,320 » Yeah. Okay. >> And forgive my ignorance on the topic. 1241 01:32:12,159 --> 01:32:18,880 If the dam fails, what happens? Other than water gets released, 1242 01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:27,440 » it would likely flood Route 27 plus one house downstream. 1243 01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:30,880 » That's on 27, right? When the water goes >> Well, no. I was looking on the map. I 1244 01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:34,400 was trying to figure out which way. >> Yeah, there there are 1245 01:32:32,719 --> 01:32:39,120 » there is a house downstream that would see some water. Um it it wouldn't be 1246 01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:45,040 swept away exactly, but yeah, it would it would be soft. Yeah. 1247 01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:49,199 » How deep is that? >> Three feet. Yeah. 1248 01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:53,120 » Yeah. >> Couple of acres. 1249 01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:55,360 » Yes. >> Does that qualify as a pond or a big 1250 01:32:54,880 --> 01:33:03,159 puddle? >> Well, 1251 01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:03,159 it's like the main body of Google Earth. 1252 01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:10,000 » Yeah. In total, as you've said, it's it's more than that. It's a lot of it is 1253 01:33:08,400 --> 01:33:13,360 kind of swampy, but I think in total, it's like a year. 1254 01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,560 » So, I think we've sort of come to our plan. 1255 01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:18,400 » Yeah. >> We withdraw this article. 1256 01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:21,199 » We have a conservation >> say if the compound folks to do so, 1257 01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:28,239 » right? >> If uh you spend the it's probably less 1258 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:35,199 than 76,000 we know precisely how much you've got to spend. We spent a chunk of 1259 01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:38,320 that on a study with PAR or somebody else if you want. 1260 01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:42,960 » So we're on the same page. It's we don't have 76 at this point. We've spent some 1261 01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:50,000 of the 50 already and we have inspections. So we have we have probably 1262 01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:54,000 maybe between 40 about 40 40 to 50 depending and if we can negotiate the 1263 01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:58,560 contract with them and get >> already done some of the groundwork that 1264 01:33:55,600 --> 01:34:03,920 can be applied to it evaluating other scenarios. Right. So I think yeah 1265 01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:07,280 » right you have another article that we haven't 1266 01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:11,840 got to yet. Well, it's a conservation trust fund and and and the reason that 1267 01:34:09,199 --> 01:34:16,000 we put that in and and the ask was for the $5,000 because we thought it would 1268 01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:20,320 cover the goal was to if we were going to go forward with the tree work to use 1269 01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:25,199 all available money today to do the tree get the tree work done because doing the 1270 01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:32,000 tree work might change the safety rating on the dam and might obiate the need for 1271 01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:36,960 the the periodic inspections. So we might not need that money that's sitting 1272 01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:42,080 in that 2019, you know, from that 2019 allocation. It needs to be used for 1273 01:34:39,199 --> 01:34:45,840 Danielson pond related stuff. So the thought was, let's pour the money into 1274 01:34:44,159 --> 01:34:50,560 get the trees stuff done if that was going forward and then ask for money in 1275 01:34:48,239 --> 01:34:53,199 the conservation trust fund for the we know we're going to have two more 1276 01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:59,120 inspections. We're going to have one this fall um in fall of 2026 and spring 1277 01:34:56,480 --> 01:35:02,400 of 2027. So, we're asking for an amount of money that would cover those 1278 01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:05,120 inspections. And then, you know, maybe it should be in an operating budget, but 1279 01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:09,040 we don't know for how long those inspections will go on. And if it's a 1280 01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:12,880 capital budget item, you're budgeting out like two years more. So, there's no 1281 01:35:10,719 --> 01:35:16,080 money in anybody's budget right now specifically for those inspections. So, 1282 01:35:14,719 --> 01:35:20,880 that's what that asks for. >> Okay. So, that and we did that last 1283 01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:24,239 year, right? Yeah. That seems unless they have any problems with that one. 1284 01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:27,920 That one seems >> Okay. 1285 01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:31,679 I like it because it gives them a little bit of flexibility this year 1286 01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:33,679 » if they need it for inspections or whatever. 1287 01:35:32,159 --> 01:35:35,600 » Okay. >> Okay. Good. 1288 01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:37,280 » All right. >> Any other questions for us? 1289 01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:41,760 » No. >> No. No. 1290 01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:45,840 » Well, if I get to page 300 and I might call you. 1291 01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:49,280 » Just take that pile and you can delete it. 1292 01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:54,400 » All right. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate you 1293 01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:58,159 coming in. Thank us posted on what's going on. Thanks. 1294 01:35:55,920 --> 01:36:02,960 » Thank you guys. Thank you for You're doing a ton of work for the Thank you 1295 01:36:00,159 --> 01:36:09,920 very much. >> You're welcome. 1296 01:36:05,679 --> 01:36:14,960 » All right. Going past our 8:30 time. We've only got through three articles. 1297 01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:18,560 » Uh four articles, I guess. >> You can present at the next meeting for 1298 01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:22,080 the article. So, you want to move on. >> These are pretty easy to get through. 1299 01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:26,480 They don't require a lot of discussion. the rest of the articles there. 1300 01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:30,800 » Whatever you want to do, we're fine. >> Fast forward. 1301 01:36:29,280 --> 01:36:33,120 » Did we switch gears then? >> Whatever you want to do. 1302 01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:39,920 » What do you >> I have a question. Did 1303 01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:44,000 she presenting tonight? >> She on here. 1304 01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:47,199 » No, she's on. >> Okay. The zoning. 1305 01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:51,440 » She's just here for entertainment. >> Zoning is next week. You don't we don't 1306 01:36:49,119 --> 01:36:54,320 close. Okay. All right. If we're not keeping 1307 01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:58,159 PS5 >> No, no, no, no. Everybody who's open 1308 01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:01,920 » Okay. >> By the way, I forgot to hand this out. 1309 01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:05,360 This is just the current list of articles 1310 01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:10,360 and um >> you copy the survey. 1311 01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:10,360 » Oh, yeah. No, 1312 01:37:11,199 --> 01:37:20,440 » responses. >> Great. Thank you. 1313 01:37:17,440 --> 01:37:20,440 box. 1314 01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:29,600 » Which one? Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Okay, here we go. 1315 01:37:26,480 --> 01:37:35,679 » Um, so these are the we we did I did add there's a new article that I added the 1316 01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:42,119 dog walking licensing fee that wasn't on the list. I signed this 1317 01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:42,119 to Emily. She Sorry, she's not here. 1318 01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:47,119 I'm hoping that one gets Do you think that one's going to move forward or 1319 01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:50,159 » I don't think it's going to move forward. We don't have a draft of the 1320 01:37:48,719 --> 01:37:53,840 language yet and so I don't think we'll have a draft of the language before we 1321 01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:57,119 finalize the warrant, but court will be discussing that. 1322 01:37:55,199 --> 01:38:00,800 » Okay. All right. >> Yeah. And the dog bylaw committee is 1323 01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:02,560 just getting started as well. >> Yeah. 1324 01:38:01,119 --> 01:38:07,040 » In certain places. So, yeah, >> I'm sure Mike Pastori would love to have 1325 01:38:04,480 --> 01:38:13,320 one less article. He would love to buy plus 1326 01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:13,320 » especially one less dog. 1327 01:38:14,480 --> 01:38:23,760 » These are this list is the somewhat controversial articles not any 1328 01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:26,960 other generic articles. 1329 01:38:25,679 --> 01:38:30,080 » Controversial, >> right? Well, the operating 1330 01:38:28,719 --> 01:38:35,840 » No, that should that should match up with with the warrant that 1331 01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:40,960 » Yeah, that Yeah, you're talking about that list. Yeah, that I mean these are 1332 01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:43,760 what I call the non-rine art. >> So, yeah, they're not articles we get 1333 01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:48,159 every year. >> Okay. 1334 01:38:44,639 --> 01:38:50,880 » So, they could be controversial and not 1335 01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:55,760 » I was thinking some of these might well be controversial suggesting 1336 01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:58,000 » those not listed here might not be. I thought, "Wait a minute. It's the whole 1337 01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:06,080 operating >> the operating budget that is listed. 1338 01:39:00,719 --> 01:39:09,119 It's not listed actually, but um so um do you have the 1339 01:39:07,119 --> 01:39:15,920 » Yes. that? Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm going to switch gears to uh 1340 01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:24,080 talk about um our budget uh scenarios and uh I put together some a slide deck 1341 01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:29,679 here um just in case anybody watches this later on I think um it might be 1342 01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:33,520 helpful um you can go to the next slide. So 1343 01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:40,239 really we just want I just want to talk about what potential decision making is 1344 01:39:36,239 --> 01:39:44,719 and our our a plan maybe uh for us to talk about how we would go forward 1345 01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:50,800 deliberating on this override. So um you know I said last meeting that 1346 01:39:48,639 --> 01:39:56,800 would be a credential decision. It's a it's a judgmentbased decision. There's 1347 01:39:52,960 --> 01:40:03,040 no formulaic approach to this. It's going to require our judgment. um we 1348 01:39:59,920 --> 01:40:08,000 have to balance uh competing good outcomes and there's no single correct 1349 01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:15,199 answer. All the gross the budget growth 1350 01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:21,119 scenarios are legitimate choices. Uh so uh next slide and you know in terms of 1351 01:40:18,239 --> 01:40:25,679 the the principles you know I think it's was it Scott McDermott uh told me when I 1352 01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:30,400 first got on the war committee like you you know you have to wear a different 1353 01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:36,560 hat like your job is to is to weave the fabric of the pound. Uh so we all might 1354 01:40:33,119 --> 01:40:41,119 have personal personal uh opinions on things, but we we have to put on our 1355 01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:47,199 warrant committee hat when we talk about this stuff and consider broader broader 1356 01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:51,360 uh townwide implications. And so stewardship of public resources 1357 01:40:49,440 --> 01:40:56,480 is important. maintaining essential services 1358 01:40:52,960 --> 01:41:01,920 and um long-term financial sustainability 1359 01:40:58,639 --> 01:41:06,239 um and transparency and making sure we can defend what we what we ultimately 1360 01:41:04,639 --> 01:41:12,880 decide. So next slide. Um 1361 01:41:10,159 --> 01:41:16,639 so why this is a difficult decision? Uh I think you know this but the service 1362 01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:22,080 levels compared against the tax burden right 1363 01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:28,080 that's the that's the ultimate you know uh 1364 01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:34,000 tough tradeoff um the scenarios affect different groups in town differently 1365 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:40,480 um and they all have different impacts in terms of long-term uh impacts. So 1366 01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:47,199 um so reasonable people can reach different conclusions. So that's that's 1367 01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:53,840 why it's so so hard. Next slide. Um these are we all know this these are the 1368 01:41:49,679 --> 01:41:57,600 scenarios that we are looking at. Uh the the the six there are the override 1369 01:41:55,920 --> 01:42:04,800 scenarios and then we also have a scenario where there's no override. Um 1370 01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:08,080 and uh we just limit uh we don't we don't approve an override. We just limit 1371 01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:14,760 the prop two and a half. It's limited to the prop 2 and a half budget 1.8%. 1372 01:42:11,440 --> 01:42:14,760 Next slide. 1373 01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:29,600 » I may have just missed it, but do did we discuss possibly going beyond the 4.59% 1374 01:42:25,440 --> 01:42:34,960 for the school school? That's that's isn't that what they would like? 1375 01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:44,400 » So So here we you're correct. We haven't discussed that as a committee. uh but 1376 01:42:39,199 --> 01:42:53,600 um we've I've I've made a judgment uh so we can talk about it uh but that um you 1377 01:42:49,119 --> 01:43:00,880 know the the uh the school uh our first ask was both school and the 1378 01:42:57,440 --> 01:43:03,679 town to give us a level service budget >> and that's what the 5% represents 1379 01:43:03,199 --> 01:43:09,199 » correct >> it's level service 1380 01:43:06,239 --> 01:43:13,920 So, it's on there because it's it's a it's what we asked for. That's that 1381 01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:19,840 tells us what's same people, same programs, what's the cost? Okay. 1382 01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:25,119 » And I thought the 4.59% was level services after they move 1383 01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:27,119 certain things into revolvers or other things. 1384 01:43:25,440 --> 01:43:33,280 » Yeah. So, what we're doing is you'll see it later on that's called a cut or 1385 01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:37,119 change savings or whatever. So, so we're starting. We're not going to continuous 1386 01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:41,040 every time they come up with a new idea. We're not going to change the definition 1387 01:43:38,719 --> 01:43:46,080 of level service. Level service is level service. Okay? 1388 01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:50,880 They they they they came up with some retirements and they changed the the 1389 01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:53,440 pricing of the kindergarten program. That's how they got down to the 459, 1390 01:43:53,119 --> 01:43:58,159 » right? >> You that you'll see that as as 1391 01:43:55,119 --> 01:44:04,000 identified later on as a cut. Okay? So that that's a scenario 459 and the 33 1392 01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:08,159 but the the level service is five and a 36 1393 01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:15,199 » 5% that's what Jeff didn't present it in December first budget was 5% in January 1394 01:44:12,480 --> 01:44:20,560 he brought it down to the 39 the school brought it back to back up to five right 1395 01:44:17,920 --> 01:44:25,600 it only came down to 4.59 so this is the fourth iteration 1396 01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:29,760 » I think it's a it's a in our deliberations it's a legitimate 1397 01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:37,040 scenario. It's what we ask >> questioning legitimacy. 1398 01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:41,280 » Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next slide. Uh so the um 1399 01:44:38,719 --> 01:44:46,239 so these are the these are the dollar this is just a graphical depiction of 1400 01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:51,119 the dollar amount of cuts by school and town. You could see it's overwhelmingly 1401 01:44:48,639 --> 01:44:58,000 associated with schools but town simply because it has a smaller budget has 1402 01:44:53,199 --> 01:45:03,119 smaller cuts. Um, and it's shown by by the the different scenarios. Obviously, 1403 01:44:59,920 --> 01:45:08,960 the the level service has no cuts and then if we don't pass an override, we 1404 01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:15,360 have significant cuts on the other end. Uh, 1.67 almost $1.7 million. 1405 01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:18,480 » Yeah. All right. I just I I just want to highlight I think um because it's 1406 01:45:17,040 --> 01:45:21,760 there's so much we've had a lot with schools and there legitimately and I 1407 01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:26,480 like the principles we have laid out here that this is all hard for good 1408 01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:33,280 reason. Just it's been striking to me hearing the town's departments and how 1409 01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:38,560 much how razor thin they've gotten their expenses down to. So while it looks like 1410 01:45:36,719 --> 01:45:41,520 smaller, you know, the little the pink versus the blue, you know, looks 1411 01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:42,719 smaller, I just I want to just highlight again. 1412 01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:46,080 » Yeah. >> The impact of a lot of those. 1413 01:45:45,679 --> 01:45:50,239 » Yeah. >> I think it tends to get pushed aside 1414 01:45:47,600 --> 01:45:54,080 because the schools is so so huge and >> it's something I think we want to keep 1415 01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:59,920 putting it back on the table because it it is so striking how many departments 1416 01:45:56,880 --> 01:46:04,239 are or how many areas are are down to really there's nothing left to cut, 1417 01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:09,440 » right? No, that's a good point. I think I think um 1418 01:46:06,480 --> 01:46:15,440 you know good point. Um so next slide. 1419 01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:22,159 Um these are the again you know going through our spreadsheet right we 1420 01:46:18,480 --> 01:46:27,600 calculated what the override would be including a a contribution to the 1421 01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:35,360 stabilization fun. This is the uh graphical depiction of that. Right. So 1422 01:46:30,480 --> 01:46:42,800 it's it's the override for um the level service is you know over $3 million 1423 01:46:40,159 --> 01:46:47,840 and you know the scenario on the far right is no override so there's zero 1424 01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:52,080 dollars associated with that. So this is kind of just you know I think you know 1425 01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:57,040 this but these this is right from the spreadsheet that I sent everybody. 1426 01:46:54,400 --> 01:47:04,400 » Next slide. Um so this is the um the impact to the 1427 01:47:01,199 --> 01:47:10,800 average single family home uh the million28 a million28,000 1428 01:47:07,679 --> 01:47:14,880 average assessed value um under the different scenarios. So, it 1429 01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:20,960 ranges from, you know, uh, for a level service 1430 01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:26,239 budget, it's almost $1,200 and then, uh, for no override, it's 1431 01:47:24,159 --> 01:47:32,239 $400. Okay, that's that's all this shows. Now, 1432 01:47:30,639 --> 01:47:36,960 I couldn't come up with a way to graphically depict all three of these on 1433 01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:43,119 the same slide. So, I the next slide is just shows you the dollars, okay? 1434 01:47:40,639 --> 01:47:50,000 because you know they're all different you know they're all different uh x and 1435 01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:54,159 y axises right so uh so you can see these are the do these are 1436 01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:57,920 dollars we're talking about school cuts and town cuts under the different 1437 01:47:56,080 --> 01:48:03,520 scenarios so you know for so for example if 1438 01:48:00,639 --> 01:48:07,840 there's no there's no override it's a million4 of cuts for the school and 1439 01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:15,280 254,000 for the town Okay. Um and then obviously 1440 01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:21,760 the different the other scenarios for growing um you know the cuts go down in 1441 01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:29,840 size. The override is the opposite, right? So if there's um the amount of 1442 01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:34,960 the override is 3.3 or a level service budget and then if there's no override 1443 01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:42,560 it's zero, right? And you can see the the average single family home. This is 1444 01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:48,960 the impact. this uh so you can see this includes the normal prop two and a 1445 01:48:45,040 --> 01:48:53,760 half piece plus the override. So so the bottom right you'll see no override it 1446 01:48:51,199 --> 01:49:00,400 it's $400. So if we if we don't do any override the taxes will go up $400. The 1447 01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:07,040 impact of the override is about $165 between the override and the 2 and a.5% 1448 01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:12,639 scenario. Right? The 566 and the 401. That's how that works. Um, 1449 01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:15,840 any questions on that slide? I think this is going to be our slide that we 1450 01:49:14,480 --> 01:49:18,239 keep coming back to. >> Yeah, 1451 01:49:16,239 --> 01:49:23,360 » because it has all the it has it all in one one slide. Okay. At least the way I 1452 01:49:21,440 --> 01:49:31,360 think about it, this is I think how we're going to have to, you know, think 1453 01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:38,239 about things. Um, the next slide is uh we got this information from uh Ivon. 1454 01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:44,239 Uh this is the uh profile of single family homes their assessed values. 1455 01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:50,320 So uh I thought this might be interesting 1456 01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:57,360 piece of information for us to have. Um you can see the big uh the biggest break 1457 01:49:54,800 --> 01:50:02,320 point or biggest grouping of of homes is the 650 to 850 category. Probably 1458 01:50:00,719 --> 01:50:07,679 like,00 homes in that category. Um, and this is 1459 01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:11,040 a tab on the spreadsheet I sent you. So, if you want the actual numbers, you can 1460 01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:15,280 look at the spreadsheet. But >> she she took assessed values and just 1461 01:50:13,119 --> 01:50:22,000 broke it down into different um groupings so you can see where you know 1462 01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:29,199 there's very few assessed values at the high end, right? Uh, and the the the 1463 01:50:26,639 --> 01:50:33,520 groups that seems to have I would say it's between 1464 01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:36,639 650 and the 1.2 two million. You know that is over half of the assessed 1465 01:50:35,679 --> 01:50:41,119 properties in town. >> It's 56% I think on the first three 1466 01:50:38,880 --> 01:50:46,400 bars. Yeah. Going up to a million was like 56%. Then when I did this the third 1467 01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:50,800 one the fourth bar they brought it to like 70 something. Yeah. Of tax will go 1468 01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:51,920 back. >> Yeah. 1469 01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:57,760 » Yeah. Yeah. >> So yeah between 650 and 1.25 1470 01:50:55,360 --> 01:51:01,600 71. That's not to say that homeowners in 1471 01:51:00,320 --> 01:51:07,840 these other categories are not important, you know, but that's this is 1472 01:51:04,880 --> 01:51:15,119 how the data falls out. All right. Um, next slide. 1473 01:51:12,239 --> 01:51:19,679 So, this this takes the school department's 1474 01:51:16,719 --> 01:51:25,520 priority of cut and it segments them into the different 1475 01:51:23,119 --> 01:51:30,480 uh scenarios. So the way this works is Peter, this is 1476 01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:35,880 getting to your question. So we have the the 40 the level service budget is 1477 01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:35,880 46,828. 1478 01:51:37,119 --> 01:51:45,360 The uh savings from the retirement of the two teachers and the tuition 1479 01:51:43,199 --> 01:51:51,119 increase for the kindergarten reduces that by 182,000. 1480 01:51:47,679 --> 01:51:55,520 That gets you to your 4.59 school budget. 1481 01:51:53,199 --> 01:52:03,920 Okay, that scenario. And then um then the next grouping of 1482 01:51:58,960 --> 01:52:08,560 cuts gets you down to the 3.9 budget, the one that Jeff recommended. And you 1483 01:52:06,480 --> 01:52:15,119 can see on the school side there's moving of the custodian to a revolver, a 1484 01:52:12,719 --> 01:52:20,480 professional development program for teachers in the summer, a district 1485 01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:27,040 initiative committee work, some technology expenses that got moved to 1486 01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:32,159 the the town side. Uh, and then there's some FTEEs. Then you get into FTEES. 1487 01:52:29,119 --> 01:52:38,880 There's like a half of a central office FTE. there's uh an admin and then 1488 01:52:36,320 --> 01:52:45,520 there's one high school teacher uh in that grouping. So all those cuts above 1489 01:52:41,199 --> 01:52:50,400 that are get you down to the 3.9 budget and then you it just goes on from there, 1490 01:52:48,080 --> 01:52:56,719 you know, to go from 39 to 35, there's two teachers at Dale Street. Um and then 1491 01:52:54,000 --> 01:53:02,960 um if we go further uh it impacts 1.4 four at Welock and one 1492 01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:07,760 more teacher at the high school. And if we think it's a it's a 3% budget, 1493 01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:13,760 there's two teachers at the Blake Middle School. 1494 01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:18,159 And then uh the the last category are these are the these are the the things 1495 01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:22,159 they thought were the most important. The high school Dale and Welock and Dale 1496 01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:29,199 these these positions they thought were most important. So there it goes from 1497 01:53:25,440 --> 01:53:34,560 what they're what's least important to most important and it just breaks 1498 01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:38,480 them down into the different uh growth categories scenarios that we're 1499 01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:42,880 studying. Everybody understand that? 1500 01:53:39,679 --> 01:53:47,199 » In terms of restoration that's worth >> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Everybody understand 1501 01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:51,520 that? >> In terms of restoration that we're 1502 01:53:49,679 --> 01:53:57,000 brought about, right? Yeah. 1503 01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:57,000 Yeah. 1504 01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:06,239 Now we have a similar slide for the town. 1505 01:54:03,199 --> 01:54:11,280 Now to your point was if the town's cuts are so small, there's a lot of little 1506 01:54:08,239 --> 01:54:18,960 ones on here, right? And um because every little thousand dollars matters to 1507 01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:22,880 the town. Um and a lot of their cuts, you know, don't involve PE. They went 1508 01:54:20,800 --> 01:54:29,920 through a lot of effort to not involve people. So these are, you know, these 1509 01:54:26,560 --> 01:54:37,599 are have different impacts. Um the first one is the uh they went from a 1510 01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:43,199 full-time to a halftime HR person. Um and then um that that gets you their 1511 01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:49,440 their number their their growth percentages are different than the town. 1512 01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:58,239 So they start out at 3.6 level budget of $15 million and these these uh these 1513 01:54:54,080 --> 01:55:05,199 cuts to the to get down to the 33 is the uh halftime HR position. And then you 1514 01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:11,920 get into the library, the GFOA budget book, overtime budget, parking rack, 1515 01:55:09,119 --> 01:55:17,440 DPW, grounds maintenance, town administrator, 1516 01:55:13,679 --> 01:55:22,239 uh DPW services, dog waste pickup, $20,000. 1517 01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:26,480 Uh that's in that that's in that. So that one is in this this category of 1518 01:55:24,639 --> 01:55:32,800 between when you move between 33 and 2.8. Um and then the facilities is a is 1519 01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:37,440 a big one in there too is building maintenance. 1520 01:55:34,719 --> 01:55:43,199 So and these are this is what the select board voted in terms of priorities. So 1521 01:55:40,239 --> 01:55:49,880 you can see the animal control officer is the most important one. They 1522 01:55:45,360 --> 01:55:49,880 protected that. It's at the very bottom. 1523 01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:56,000 Okay. >> So in other words, that cut is made only 1524 01:55:54,480 --> 01:56:00,480 if there's no >> Right. Right. 1525 01:55:57,920 --> 01:56:05,679 Yep. Good way to put it. Yep. Yeah. That last 1526 01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:08,679 category only gets made if there's no override. 1527 01:56:09,280 --> 01:56:17,360 Everybody understand that? >> Okay. 1528 01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:24,719 » Next slide. >> Okay. So, try to sort of sketch out what 1529 01:56:21,520 --> 01:56:29,119 a good plan might be and we'll get your feedback on this. my first three steps. 1530 01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:33,679 I think we've completed we've done the analysis. Unless people think we need 1531 01:56:31,280 --> 01:56:40,960 more information, I think we've got it all in front of us. Um and um we've got 1532 01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:45,119 the we've got the baseline for fiscal uh for the budgets. We know what the 1533 01:56:43,040 --> 01:56:50,960 service impacts are. We know what the tax impacts are. Um you know, and we've 1534 01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:57,119 looked at the profiling of uh the assessed values. So, so the next slide 1535 01:56:55,199 --> 01:57:01,440 um I think we should talk about this one. 1536 01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:06,239 This is uh the question of multi-year sustainability. 1537 01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:11,679 This is looking at what you look what happens after 2027 1538 01:57:09,679 --> 01:57:17,440 and I just kind of threw three questions out here. Um but I think we need to talk 1539 01:57:14,159 --> 01:57:21,920 about this. Does the scenario avoid structural deficits? 1540 01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:26,719 Does it reduce the likelihood of another override soon? 1541 01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:32,239 Uh or does it maintain reserves or bond stability? I think when we look at 1542 01:57:29,119 --> 01:57:38,560 sustainability, the question of that second one I think is important. I think 1543 01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:46,400 that the you know it's hard to operate a what $75 million budget not knowing not 1544 01:57:43,760 --> 01:57:51,360 thinking beyond 12 months. uh you have to hire people, you have to manage 1545 01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:56,480 people, programs, departments. Not having certainty to that that group 1546 01:57:54,639 --> 01:58:00,639 of personnel uh for more than a 12-month period, 1547 01:57:58,560 --> 01:58:08,719 having uncertainty, I think uh is not a best practice. 1548 01:58:04,800 --> 01:58:12,239 So if we can eliminate that for like the school departments, think about how they 1549 01:58:10,480 --> 01:58:15,440 have to, you know, they might have to cut people or, you know, they don't cut 1550 01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:20,400 people this year, but they have to cut them next year. You know, all that 1551 01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:25,520 factors into, I think, some of our thinking. Uh, and the town, you know, 1552 01:58:24,320 --> 01:58:31,520 the same thing. It's it's more important, I think, on the school side. 1553 01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:35,119 » So, um, I'm just going to go through these and 1554 01:58:32,639 --> 01:58:40,480 then we can talk. The next slide uh is uh just community values. I think just 1555 01:58:38,159 --> 01:58:45,760 aligning with residents priorities. What do residents prioritize? 1556 01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:51,040 What trade-offs are acceptable? And uh what level of service reduction 1557 01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:55,280 is tolerable? These are not easy questions. Like I said, we have to make 1558 01:58:52,960 --> 01:59:00,000 a credential decision here, but use your best judgment. When I was reading this 1559 01:58:57,040 --> 01:59:05,920 over, this was the slide that sort of struck me me I guess I can say the most 1560 01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:09,679 because we don't have polling. I I don't know what residents are thinking about 1561 01:59:09,119 --> 01:59:12,800 this. >> Yeah. 1562 01:59:10,159 --> 01:59:16,000 » You know, we here in the war committee, we're steeped in this. We think about 1563 01:59:14,480 --> 01:59:21,440 this stuff a lot. >> Yeah. 1564 01:59:16,400 --> 01:59:25,920 » The average homeowner taxpayer in town, I don't have a clue. I mean, are they 1565 01:59:23,679 --> 01:59:32,880 like, "Hell no, I don't want to see my taxes raised at all." Or are they, "Oh, 1566 01:59:30,159 --> 01:59:37,440 no. I I'm totally okay with raising taxes to maintain a reasonable level of 1567 01:59:34,880 --> 01:59:42,560 services." I just don't know. And there's a continuum and there 1568 01:59:40,239 --> 01:59:45,840 where they fall, where people fall. I I don't know. I don't know how one gave 1569 01:59:45,520 --> 01:59:49,119 that. >> Yeah. I don't think we'll know for 1570 01:59:47,119 --> 01:59:56,000 certainty that the answer to that question, right? You're gonna have to 1571 01:59:52,159 --> 01:59:59,960 use all your your mental capacity judgment. 1572 01:59:56,400 --> 01:59:59,960 » Well, they weren't real. 1573 02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:08,080 » The topic that generated the most email replies so far is part-time animal 1574 02:00:04,880 --> 02:00:12,400 control. So, >> but the the select board has they 1575 02:00:10,400 --> 02:00:15,599 they've considered that >> that priority in their in their list. 1576 02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:20,639 So, >> yeah. 1577 02:00:17,360 --> 02:00:25,760 So that I mean the the fact that uh that we do have prioritized list of cuts I 1578 02:00:23,119 --> 02:00:33,760 think helps with some of this. So >> next slide. Um 1579 02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:40,320 so I thought the next uh step should be narrowing down these options. 1580 02:00:36,639 --> 02:00:45,119 My suggestion is that we we try to get to 1581 02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:50,080 preferably two but we can't three. Uh, I'd like to you maybe get to two viable 1582 02:00:48,400 --> 02:00:57,360 scenarios. Um, and that, you know, I think it would 1583 02:00:54,880 --> 02:01:04,560 be great if we at our next meeting we could um, 1584 02:01:01,199 --> 02:01:10,800 uh, make a decision on one of them, you know, narrow it down to one. Uh, but we 1585 02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:16,400 could talk about this. Uh, but I think it would ideally my we have a working 1586 02:01:13,679 --> 02:01:23,760 group meeting next Tuesday, St. Patrick's Day. Um, and 1587 02:01:22,159 --> 02:01:28,800 if I could go to them and say the warrant committee thinks these two 1588 02:01:25,840 --> 02:01:33,920 scenarios are viable, that would be helpful because then we 1589 02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:39,760 could, you know, we could sort of do a sort of a, you know, smell test. Does it 1590 02:01:36,639 --> 02:01:44,719 what do they think of those of that and knowing that we will have to make 1591 02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:50,000 that final decision? Uh I'd like to do that on the 24th if we can. Ideally, 1592 02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:54,800 that's that's kind of how I was thinking this could play out. Uh because we're 1593 02:01:52,320 --> 02:02:01,360 just running out of time. We have to we have to move um 1594 02:01:57,920 --> 02:02:07,440 uh we have to move this budget number forward and get to the next slide. 1595 02:02:04,639 --> 02:02:12,719 Actually, we'll talk about that. Um, so we get a recommendation, right? And then 1596 02:02:10,080 --> 02:02:17,920 the next slide, it's really just commun we have to we have this communication 1597 02:02:14,719 --> 02:02:23,199 problem as you know educating the public on what what we're doing there. The 1598 02:02:20,639 --> 02:02:30,719 sooner we can get to a consensus, the the more time we have to communicate 1599 02:02:25,360 --> 02:02:35,840 with the public. So um and then uh the next slide is just you know again 1600 02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:40,880 reiterating things we already said basically it's a credential decision 1601 02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:49,119 that every you know these these variables are are contradicting and they 1602 02:02:44,719 --> 02:02:54,960 vary um amongst all the scenarios. So that one table with the numbers is the 1603 02:02:51,199 --> 02:02:57,920 one that I think is the the key. Um, so do you have any more slides or is that 1604 02:02:56,239 --> 02:03:04,080 it? I think that's it. >> Yeah. Um, so I don't know. Do people is 1605 02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:10,920 there more to ask this question? Do people need more information or do they 1606 02:03:06,800 --> 02:03:10,920 we think we have enough? 1607 02:03:14,239 --> 02:03:19,679 » Think we have enough? >> Yeah. 1608 02:03:17,920 --> 02:03:24,719 Slicewood through bunch of ways. 1609 02:03:21,360 --> 02:03:29,119 » Yeah. um to analysis for references. 1610 02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:31,520 » Yeah. Yeah. >> I think we have plenty of information. 1611 02:03:31,280 --> 02:03:37,760 » Yeah. >> I do have a question about how the 1612 02:03:34,880 --> 02:03:45,280 » you know when we move this forward, how we determine what is allocated towards 1613 02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:48,320 the override stabilization reserve fund. How does that Yeah. 1614 02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:52,719 » factor into all this? >> Good question. So, 1615 02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:55,719 actually, why don't we take out that spreadsheet? 1616 02:04:10,800 --> 02:04:17,679 » I just asked them to print out one scenario. Doesn't mean this is the 1617 02:04:15,199 --> 02:04:26,000 scenario that we should pick. I'm just saying I asked them to pick out one. So, 1618 02:04:21,119 --> 02:04:31,280 um if you go back to go back to um that table that's the 1619 02:04:29,280 --> 02:04:36,719 » Yeah, the budget this budget scenario table. This one here. 1620 02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:40,880 Okay. So, um 1621 02:04:38,639 --> 02:04:44,440 see the column says total override including stabilization. 1622 02:04:46,159 --> 02:04:51,520 Everybody got that? >> Y. 1623 02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:57,440 » If you look at the 3.5 the 2.6 scenario, it's got a million606 1624 02:04:53,840 --> 02:05:01,920 511 for the total override including stabilization. 1625 02:04:59,199 --> 02:05:05,920 So this long sheet was called the million this million6 1626 02:05:04,239 --> 02:05:07,920 right here. >> That's this tells you how it's 1627 02:05:07,199 --> 02:05:12,080 calculated. >> Mhm. 1628 02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:17,040 » Okay. So it basically it takes 1629 02:05:14,400 --> 02:05:25,040 » you need one of these Brent one. Yeah. Okay. Um 1630 02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:33,599 it takes uh basically takes the the 26 budget and then it it escalates it by 1631 02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:39,360 » 3 and a half% for schools 2.8 2.6 for the town. Okay. And it compares that to 1632 02:05:37,280 --> 02:05:44,960 our prop. remember the the worksheets we were working on before all fall that 1633 02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:48,159 Christine would give us that calculated what the what the prop 2 and a half 1634 02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:54,560 number was. >> That's the that's the the 1.8 that's 1635 02:05:51,679 --> 02:05:56,159 this number here. So it's uh 1.8 is the prop 2 and a half, 1636 02:05:55,520 --> 02:06:00,480 » right? >> So the difference between growing at 3 1637 02:05:58,000 --> 02:06:05,560 and a half% and the prop 2 and a half is the override. So the 761 1638 02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:15,360 for the schools and the 110 for the town adds up to 871. 1639 02:06:12,159 --> 02:06:20,639 That's the that's the piece of the 1.6 million that we need to cover 27. 1640 02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:27,280 Okay. And then we'll do the same thing for 28. 1641 02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:34,000 And we this is 735 is the amount we put in a budget mean to put it in the 1642 02:06:29,199 --> 02:06:43,040 stabilization fund. So, we know that the override of 1.6 871 will cover 27 and 1643 02:06:39,360 --> 02:06:48,719 735 will be in a stabilization fund to cover the 28 budget. So, we don't need a 1644 02:06:46,800 --> 02:06:53,679 second over. That's how that works. And then we do 1645 02:06:51,280 --> 02:06:59,320 this for each scenario. Does everybody understand that? Did you 1646 02:06:55,679 --> 02:06:59,320 follow that, Elizabeth? 1647 02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:07,280 That's still >> that's still less than what we need for 1648 02:07:05,040 --> 02:07:11,280 27. So there's still going to be issues, right? 1649 02:07:08,079 --> 02:07:13,599 » Well, it's less because the um because the prop 2 and a half is bigger, 1650 02:07:13,040 --> 02:07:19,599 » right? >> Right. So remember, we had a little more 1651 02:07:15,360 --> 02:07:23,440 growth at 28. So this 2.1 is the is the prop 2 and a half versus the 1.8. So it 1652 02:07:22,159 --> 02:07:26,880 it is you're right. It is a little bit less, 1653 02:07:24,400 --> 02:07:32,320 » but that's because our forecast for 28 was more. 1654 02:07:28,320 --> 02:07:38,480 » Okay. So I see um so to go through this again we start with the 26 1655 02:07:35,599 --> 02:07:45,040 um the 26 the 59 million082 1656 02:07:42,159 --> 02:07:52,239 the remaining available for departments we escalate that by 3.5 1657 02:07:48,800 --> 02:07:58,079 for the schools and 2.6 for the town comes up with an average of 3.28 28 1658 02:07:55,920 --> 02:08:01,079 and we get a forecasted budget of 61,20,457. 1659 02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:12,560 And then we compare that to the Prop 2 and a half column, the second column 1660 02:08:09,280 --> 02:08:17,520 that says if we're only limited to Prop 2 and a half increase, the budget would 1661 02:08:15,040 --> 02:08:20,560 be 60,149. But we want to grow, we want to 1662 02:08:19,119 --> 02:08:27,639 override, so we want to grow it more than that. So we need an extra 1663 02:08:24,639 --> 02:08:27,639 871 1664 02:08:27,679 --> 02:08:38,880 for 27. And then for 28, you just take that 27 forecast column, the 6120,000, 1665 02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:45,599 and you grow that by 3.5% for the schools, one point 2.6 for 1666 02:08:43,040 --> 02:08:51,040 the town. And you go through the same math, compare it to what the Prop 2 and 1667 02:08:48,320 --> 02:08:56,719 a half budget is for 28, which is 61,415, 1668 02:08:53,599 --> 02:09:03,119 and you need an override of 735 for 28. So you add the two together. You 1669 02:08:59,760 --> 02:09:08,560 add the 27 piece and the 28 piece to come up with an override of a million6 1670 02:09:06,560 --> 02:09:17,360 that we're going to ask voters to approve and add to the 27 tax limit. 1671 02:09:14,000 --> 02:09:22,159 at town meeting with a promise. Now, here's the thing I I haven't mentioned 1672 02:09:19,199 --> 02:09:26,400 to you. I should talk to you about I thought it was a good Some towns that 1673 02:09:24,079 --> 02:09:32,719 have been successful with overrides have gotten their school committee, select 1674 02:09:29,360 --> 02:09:40,400 board, and warrant committee to make a commitment statement. 1675 02:09:36,079 --> 02:09:45,440 So, I've started to draft a statement uh that 1676 02:09:42,480 --> 02:09:52,560 I haven't shown it to to uh any of those committees yet. Um and so 1677 02:09:50,159 --> 02:09:58,159 I think what we'll do is at our working group meeting on the 17th, I'll share it 1678 02:09:56,320 --> 02:10:03,440 with them and uh then at our next meeting, I'll 1679 02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:08,159 give it a copy to all of you for your feedback. But my thought is it would be 1680 02:10:06,320 --> 02:10:14,239 a it would be a commitment letter that would basically say look 1681 02:10:11,119 --> 02:10:20,719 we these three committees agreed to we're supportive of an override. 1682 02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:26,639 We we will limit 28 we will limit the the 28 budget increases to whatever 1683 02:10:24,159 --> 02:10:33,199 percentage we decide. Uh we will we will abide by some fiscal 1684 02:10:30,719 --> 02:10:39,679 discipline. you know there'll be some discussion of that in there and that um 1685 02:10:37,840 --> 02:10:44,239 you know we will look for revenue opportunities 1686 02:10:42,079 --> 02:10:48,320 like we'll support the state hospital we'll look for fees where we can get 1687 02:10:45,920 --> 02:10:51,920 them we'll do all the things that we've talked about as a committee I don't 1688 02:10:50,400 --> 02:10:56,639 think people on this committee should have an issue with the statement hopeful 1689 02:10:55,040 --> 02:11:01,920 that the school committee and the select board will support it but I think having 1690 02:10:59,360 --> 02:11:09,840 that like in the warrant so that people can read it. The link will be helpful, 1691 02:11:06,560 --> 02:11:14,560 you know. So, so I just want to mention that that's um Did that does this answer 1692 02:11:12,880 --> 02:11:17,040 your question about how we get to the 2018? 1693 02:11:15,599 --> 02:11:21,280 » Yes. >> All right. So, what do people think 1694 02:11:19,440 --> 02:11:26,639 about um 1695 02:11:23,920 --> 02:11:32,320 is are people let's put it this way. If you have any thoughts on we were to 1696 02:11:28,960 --> 02:11:36,560 eliminate one or two scenario, we don't have to get down to two or 1697 02:11:33,840 --> 02:11:41,920 three, but let's start with you know this this slide up here this 1698 02:11:39,119 --> 02:11:47,360 you know this um you know if you want to talk about 1699 02:11:45,360 --> 02:11:50,960 certain scenarios maybe we talk about the extremes right first what people 1700 02:11:49,440 --> 02:11:56,159 think about those >> it seems like the 2525 doesn't get us 1701 02:11:53,119 --> 02:12:01,760 very far so it's it doesn't solve either problem. So it seems like that would be 1702 02:11:58,719 --> 02:12:07,400 an easy We're going to start somewhere. >> As me said, you took the word out. 1703 02:12:10,719 --> 02:12:19,239 » Oh, you're going Oh, so you're getting it right down there. Okay. 1704 02:12:15,040 --> 02:12:19,239 » But top two mean the 4.59. 1705 02:12:22,159 --> 02:12:31,199 That's just me. So I I like uh I like having five and I 1706 02:12:28,880 --> 02:12:35,040 like having 39 like having the level service and I like 1707 02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:41,199 having what the superintendent recommended. Mhm. 1708 02:12:37,360 --> 02:12:45,920 » I'm okay eliminating the rest of the sentiment that I've gotten a lot of 1709 02:12:43,199 --> 02:12:51,920 feedback on Peter talking to people is the the underlying 1710 02:12:49,280 --> 02:12:57,440 comment that I get a lot of and I completely agree is 1711 02:12:55,520 --> 02:13:02,719 you're telling me in every scenario except one 1712 02:13:00,480 --> 02:13:06,000 two every scenario except one you're going 1713 02:13:04,079 --> 02:13:12,560 to raise my taxes and you're still That's I don't like that. 1714 02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:16,360 I've heard that two dozen times in the last month. 1715 02:13:17,360 --> 02:13:25,119 Now, I've heard a lot of people also heard two dozen comments 1716 02:13:23,040 --> 02:13:31,360 pay enough as it is in taxes. I'm not going to vote. 1717 02:13:28,159 --> 02:13:34,000 So, as far as the people I've talked to, >> the tax 1718 02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:40,079 » as far as I've talked to, I'm getting about a pretty close to 5050 split 1719 02:13:37,440 --> 02:13:48,280 between people who say I'm okay if my taxes go up to fund what we got and pay 1720 02:13:44,000 --> 02:13:48,280 enough as it goes and I don't want 1721 02:13:48,480 --> 02:13:57,800 a lot of whatever. >> Is there any way to take some sort of 1722 02:13:52,639 --> 02:13:57,800 pulse survey of the community to like 1723 02:13:58,159 --> 02:14:06,159 So my thinking is a little different from yours which doesn't mean of course 1724 02:14:03,760 --> 02:14:12,000 I'm doing if if the school committee could live with 4.59 1725 02:14:09,679 --> 02:14:19,040 with the retigering the retirements and the 1726 02:14:15,360 --> 02:14:25,199 taking the putting some people into revolving accounts. 1727 02:14:22,320 --> 02:14:32,079 I think that should my feeling is that should be the top pick here and not have 1728 02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:38,639 the 5.0 anymore. So I would drop that and if you're going to require cuts 1729 02:14:35,280 --> 02:14:47,719 this purely seat of the pants who cares what Peter Michaelelsson thinks. Uh I 1730 02:14:42,239 --> 02:14:47,719 just sort of think the 3.5 3.6 six. 1731 02:14:49,920 --> 02:14:53,360 » You're trying to balance the impact impacts with, 1732 02:14:52,960 --> 02:14:58,079 » right? >> Yeah, that's what I That's what we got 1733 02:14:55,360 --> 02:15:02,079 to do. That's that uh >> Yeah, I mean Yeah, that's the seessaw. 1734 02:15:00,480 --> 02:15:06,480 You know, I mean, I'll I'll just weigh in here. I think that, 1735 02:15:04,400 --> 02:15:11,520 » you know, there's a there's a school of thought 1736 02:15:08,960 --> 02:15:14,000 here that says you're going to you're going to go with 1737 02:15:12,719 --> 02:15:19,520 level service. you're going to you're going to increase my taxes by $1,200 1738 02:15:16,480 --> 02:15:25,760 every year. And that may not be sustainable for some 1739 02:15:22,719 --> 02:15:32,239 people, but some people some people >> particularly where there's a school 1740 02:15:28,639 --> 02:15:38,159 a school uh project that's going to that's going to you know 1741 02:15:34,239 --> 02:15:43,440 » going to be uh on top of that. though I mean there's a there's a core question 1742 02:15:40,480 --> 02:15:47,679 of can we afford a level service budget of 5% 1743 02:15:45,280 --> 02:15:52,800 every year. That's that's I think a core question. 1744 02:15:50,000 --> 02:15:58,079 Uh I I don't know the answer to that. People will have different views on 1745 02:15:54,159 --> 02:16:03,280 that. Um, but I look at I look at this list of cuts and how it impacts 1746 02:16:01,679 --> 02:16:08,000 um how it I mean how it impacts um the 1747 02:16:06,480 --> 02:16:14,320 school. I don't see a lot of pain in the in the 1748 02:16:11,360 --> 02:16:21,920 first you know getting down to the 3.9. I see some retirements. I see 1749 02:16:19,440 --> 02:16:25,840 I see a custodian moving from revol from into a revolver. I see some professional 1750 02:16:24,320 --> 02:16:31,520 development work, some committee work being 1751 02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:36,639 eliminated, central office position. I mean, there's only one teacher being 1752 02:16:34,399 --> 02:16:42,479 cut there at a high school. I don't know what that 1753 02:16:38,240 --> 02:16:48,479 position is, but um and it's probably important to note too 1754 02:16:44,559 --> 02:16:53,519 that this doesn't include what Dr. Marsen talked about our last meeting. 1755 02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:57,040 school committee was going to look at uh bus fees 1756 02:16:55,200 --> 02:17:02,559 » as well. And you know, if you even use a you 1757 02:17:00,479 --> 02:17:08,639 know, conservative estimate, 100 students, 800 students take the bus all 1758 02:17:06,080 --> 02:17:12,160 the time. You know, you impose 100 bucks a student per year. I'm just pulling 1759 02:17:09,920 --> 02:17:15,120 numbers out of thin air. More than enough revenue to offset, you know, 1760 02:17:14,719 --> 02:17:20,000 right? >> The teacher thing. So, at least that one 1761 02:17:18,080 --> 02:17:26,399 position. The problem I have with the the level service budget is that it it 1762 02:17:23,920 --> 02:17:31,599 kind of sends a message that, you know, we've we want you to pay more taxes, 1763 02:17:29,120 --> 02:17:36,080 been, you know, we're not going to we don't think there's any cuts that can be 1764 02:17:33,439 --> 02:17:38,960 made. >> That's kind of what it's saying. 1765 02:17:38,399 --> 02:17:45,359 » I also >> and we know that's not true looking at 1766 02:17:40,639 --> 02:17:49,040 this. I mean, um, so I'm I'm struggling with, you know, with that level service 1767 02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:53,840 budget. >> Well, the level service of 5%. Is the 1768 02:17:52,000 --> 02:17:56,160 highest that they've come in with in >> ever 1769 02:17:54,240 --> 02:17:59,760 » the years that I've the reason it's so high this year is because you have the 1770 02:17:57,679 --> 02:18:03,920 specialed transportation, the connelly thing, and the impact. But remember, we 1771 02:18:01,840 --> 02:18:09,679 had we had three line items that cost us overion dollars, right? So the you know 1772 02:18:06,880 --> 02:18:15,040 the typical school budget is going to go up between four and four four somewhere 1773 02:18:12,960 --> 02:18:16,240 in that range every year. That's that's your average. 1774 02:18:15,840 --> 02:18:20,800 » Yeah. >> Uh across the years. Yeah. So that's why 1775 02:18:18,639 --> 02:18:24,240 I kind of throw out the 5% that's an anomaly. 1776 02:18:22,000 --> 02:18:29,359 » Yeah. I agree. >> Yeah. I got to say I I'm not disagreeing 1777 02:18:27,599 --> 02:18:34,000 strongly with any of this, but I'm sort of back with what Elizabeth said 1778 02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:40,240 earlier. I'm thinking also about the town budgets which are and the 1779 02:18:37,120 --> 02:18:45,840 presentation by the fire chiefs that was sort of dire sounding to me and 1780 02:18:43,679 --> 02:18:50,599 I didn't realize that till he made that presentation. 1781 02:18:47,599 --> 02:18:50,599 So, 1782 02:18:51,760 --> 02:18:57,840 and we've got a bigger problem with fire department coming down the pipe next 1783 02:18:55,280 --> 02:19:05,439 year. I'm aware uh with those four positions, but um uh 1784 02:19:02,800 --> 02:19:10,800 so part of me feels like we can give a little flexibility 1785 02:19:07,439 --> 02:19:17,920 this year and next for the non-school department. I sort of favor that. 1786 02:19:16,160 --> 02:19:22,080 That's not a that's not a diet drive against the school department. I 1787 02:19:20,240 --> 02:19:24,319 » that's the biggest budget in town for lots of good reasons. 1788 02:19:23,280 --> 02:19:28,920 » Yeah. Yeah. >> The important service the town provides. 1789 02:19:31,280 --> 02:19:38,399 » You know, I think I think that >> um 1790 02:19:36,479 --> 02:19:42,960 let me ask you this. Elizabeth made a suggestion that the 2.5 1791 02:19:41,280 --> 02:19:47,760 scenario doesn't really get us a lot. People 1792 02:19:46,000 --> 02:19:50,640 agree with that. >> Yes. 1793 02:19:48,720 --> 02:19:53,840 » Is that two or two? >> It doesn't get us a lot, but it's 1794 02:19:52,080 --> 02:20:00,640 inherently justifiable. And I just want to make that point again, right? because 1795 02:19:56,880 --> 02:20:05,200 you know 2 and a half% is the I mean it's different for us because we choose 1796 02:20:02,399 --> 02:20:08,399 to separate out our fixed costs but operating costs growing at two and a 1797 02:20:06,560 --> 02:20:12,960 half% at least the spirit of prop two and a half so in time and it's very very 1798 02:20:11,520 --> 02:20:17,040 rarely since I've been on this committee in fact it's never happened that we've 1799 02:20:14,479 --> 02:20:21,920 been unable to grow that side of those budgets at two and a half% on that so 1800 02:20:19,280 --> 02:20:25,680 that's at least inherently justifiable everything else is an arbitrary decision 1801 02:20:23,680 --> 02:20:30,160 based on um somebody else's suggestion of what 1802 02:20:28,319 --> 02:20:33,760 they thought level service, something they thought they could get fine with. 1803 02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:37,600 That's the only number that's inherently justifiable. Now, I I'm not necessarily 1804 02:20:36,080 --> 02:20:41,200 going to say that's the only one I can support, 1805 02:20:38,960 --> 02:20:44,160 » but I but I don't want us to necessarily 1806 02:20:42,240 --> 02:20:47,640 discount it simply because we don't like what it implies. 1807 02:20:48,080 --> 02:20:52,560 » Yeah. So >> I mean I I I would gravitate I would 1808 02:20:50,800 --> 02:20:56,160 just say by the way just I mean three and a half to six is about the highest I 1809 02:20:54,319 --> 02:20:59,840 feel comfortable myself >> and I mean I I say that on the basis of 1810 02:20:58,319 --> 02:21:02,319 previous budget increases that we've seen in the last two or three years 1811 02:21:01,040 --> 02:21:03,680 that's in line that sometimes we were able to get to four. 1812 02:21:03,280 --> 02:21:06,560 » Yeah. >> Sometimes we had to settle for 35 34. 1813 02:21:06,240 --> 02:21:12,399 » Yeah. >> But I you know at least to me it implies 1814 02:21:10,160 --> 02:21:18,080 a continuity previous year. Uh the other ones feel like we haven't 1815 02:21:16,560 --> 02:21:22,240 like we haven't fully got our head around the fact that unfortunately 1816 02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:27,520 uh you know we have a structural problem. 1817 02:21:24,560 --> 02:21:33,280 That's just me. So your your point is that uh 1818 02:21:31,120 --> 02:21:37,520 that the two I think I think I said every scenario on here you could make a 1819 02:21:35,520 --> 02:21:44,240 case that it's defensible and your point is the two and a half is is is aligned 1820 02:21:40,160 --> 02:21:46,720 with the pro other other >> I'm not dismissing 1821 02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:50,000 » well so at some point of course we have to defend whatever choice we choices but 1822 02:21:48,800 --> 02:21:53,359 I assume we're going to have a singular choice 1823 02:21:51,520 --> 02:21:57,520 » we'll have to defend it but other choices require you to go now to the 1824 02:21:55,280 --> 02:22:00,880 next page and look at individual cuts. And so you're making a decision on the 1825 02:21:58,880 --> 02:22:02,080 basis of somebody's prioritized decisions, 1826 02:22:01,600 --> 02:22:07,520 » right? >> And that to me is a is um one in which 1827 02:22:05,600 --> 02:22:10,000 every single one of the 13,000 residents might be a different viewpoint, right? 1828 02:22:09,040 --> 02:22:13,120 So fair enough. >> So I'm trying to think of what's 1829 02:22:11,200 --> 02:22:15,840 » but they they elect representatives that made the decision. 1830 02:22:14,080 --> 02:22:18,840 » I totally agree. Thank goodness for that. 1831 02:22:19,359 --> 02:22:27,680 » Yeah. Um but that I mean I understand that's that's uh that's how we that 1832 02:22:24,560 --> 02:22:33,600 you're right. That's that's I feel I feel better because they as committees, 1833 02:22:31,920 --> 02:22:38,080 you know, made those decisions. They're closest to I guess as elected officials 1834 02:22:36,399 --> 02:22:42,720 what the priorities of the town should be. So, um, which is why I thought it 1835 02:22:41,200 --> 02:22:48,479 was important they they weighed in on that. So, 1836 02:22:45,040 --> 02:22:53,840 but, um, I look at it from the perspective of 1837 02:22:51,359 --> 02:22:56,840 what do we think the citizens will vote for 1838 02:22:58,479 --> 02:23:02,720 pass versus how much the schools have to cut. 1839 02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:06,960 » Yeah. Because the alternative the alternative is is not everybody agrees 1840 02:23:04,960 --> 02:23:12,000 the alternative, right? Yeah. 1841 02:23:08,960 --> 02:23:16,479 So I think the me the most important thing to look at is go was the impact on 1842 02:23:13,920 --> 02:23:22,680 the taxpayer. >> Well, how about how about just so we can 1843 02:23:18,640 --> 02:23:22,680 get some consensus here? 1844 02:23:22,800 --> 02:23:30,800 I'll throw this out. Can we can we can we rule out I don't want to go as far as 1845 02:23:27,920 --> 02:23:35,600 Ed suggested, but can we rule out the top and the bottom one, the two and a 1846 02:23:32,640 --> 02:23:39,200 half and the 5%? you know, just, you know, and then we'll 1847 02:23:37,359 --> 02:23:45,840 we'll get some feedback from this working group next week and see um of 1848 02:23:43,760 --> 02:23:51,200 the one, two, three, four of the four scenarios that are left 1849 02:23:48,319 --> 02:23:56,880 um we can get unless you think we can get to two. I know it's it's 9:30. So, 1850 02:23:54,319 --> 02:24:03,520 » I mean, I said this last week that tuition for kindergarten $3,500 is a 1851 02:24:00,319 --> 02:24:08,160 check that I'll write right now. That's already in here. There's two full-time 1852 02:24:05,760 --> 02:24:14,720 teachers retiring in here. And that those two moves right there be four or 1853 02:24:10,319 --> 02:24:19,760 five. Yeah. To me, that's that's good on the, you know, on the school side. If I 1854 02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:27,520 know school committee and another superintendent have their own desire to 1855 02:24:22,319 --> 02:24:31,920 move full-time kindergarten to free incoming kindergarteners. 1856 02:24:29,680 --> 02:24:36,399 » Yeah. that it's not free and that it's going to cost seven grand is not a 1857 02:24:34,720 --> 02:24:42,800 problem in my head. 1858 02:24:38,640 --> 02:24:48,319 I'm cool with that. Yeah. I mean, I I look at I mean, okay. 1859 02:24:45,680 --> 02:24:55,280 So, so maybe we can maybe we can eliminate those two, the five and the 1860 02:24:50,640 --> 02:24:59,600 two and a half, but I think um my guess is that 1861 02:24:57,680 --> 02:25:04,800 um that uh we may have you know what do 1862 02:25:03,280 --> 02:25:10,240 people we haven't talked about. What do people think about the average tax 1863 02:25:06,880 --> 02:25:16,479 impact? Is it is uh you know 1864 02:25:13,760 --> 02:25:22,520 is there any magic to being below 800 or above a thousand that impact people's 1865 02:25:19,520 --> 02:25:22,520 decision? 1866 02:25:23,840 --> 02:25:30,800 Uh I think the average taxpayer looking at a $1,000 increase is gonna 1867 02:25:29,359 --> 02:25:33,920 say no. >> Absolutely. That's a thou a thousand 1868 02:25:33,040 --> 02:25:37,359 dollar. >> Yeah, 1869 02:25:34,640 --> 02:25:44,240 » it's a Wow. That's a big number. That's why I kind of look at okay 8.84 782 1870 02:25:41,200 --> 02:25:47,359 that's well below the thousand. >> Yeah. 1871 02:25:44,880 --> 02:25:54,160 » And it still requires significant still requires cuts. Um 1872 02:25:51,439 --> 02:26:00,000 in between >> Yeah. It's it's you know 1873 02:25:58,720 --> 02:26:03,520 » so you'd say >> as you say you don't get anything for 1874 02:26:01,359 --> 02:26:06,960 the two and a half 50 you're only going up $166 right 1875 02:26:05,359 --> 02:26:09,040 » from the base 401 >> right 1876 02:26:07,520 --> 02:26:14,319 » this is the incremental you got look at the incremental here the 668 is sorry 1877 02:26:11,280 --> 02:26:19,200 it's up so it's up 268 and the other one is 382 1878 02:26:16,399 --> 02:26:25,200 » is the incremental cost for the of the overrides 1879 02:26:22,640 --> 02:26:31,040 » and I don't I think those two numbers if presented that way 1880 02:26:28,319 --> 02:26:35,840 is a showstopper. >> So that so that's why that's I guess how 1881 02:26:33,040 --> 02:26:39,880 you got to the 39. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. 1882 02:26:43,680 --> 02:26:52,160 I mean, when you look at the impact on this prioritized list, say the schools, 1883 02:26:49,200 --> 02:26:56,960 I don't think the town has a giant problem. 1884 02:26:54,479 --> 02:27:01,520 Uh I say a giant problem. every every pro every amount money matters for the 1885 02:26:59,200 --> 02:27:05,680 town side but um 1886 02:27:03,040 --> 02:27:11,600 the cuts are not people right that's that's the difference on the school side 1887 02:27:08,000 --> 02:27:15,240 we're talking about people so um the uh 1888 02:27:15,359 --> 02:27:18,720 yeah I >> there there are people cut 1889 02:27:17,520 --> 02:27:23,520 » are there people cut >> there are several cuts that they've been 1890 02:27:21,600 --> 02:27:27,359 vacated in the last six weeks eight weeks so I intentionally didn't fill 1891 02:27:25,439 --> 02:27:30,560 them knowing we were going to have this issue, but they are 1892 02:27:28,960 --> 02:27:33,600 » um they are positions that we are losing. 1893 02:27:31,600 --> 02:27:39,240 » Can you can you put up the town slide again? I don't have a copy of it. So, 1894 02:27:45,840 --> 02:27:55,200 » the I'm getting confused. So the equivalent to the 39 budget is the two 1895 02:27:52,880 --> 02:28:02,000 28 >> 39. So the 2.8. 1896 02:27:57,840 --> 02:28:06,720 So it's this first group of cuts. >> Yeah. So we have a land use department 1897 02:28:04,319 --> 02:28:10,840 in there. The assessors we move to a halftime admin. 1898 02:28:11,680 --> 02:28:16,479 » Oh, is that the >> So the land use department is the part 1899 02:28:14,640 --> 02:28:20,160 time administrator that we didn't build. So that's a that's a 1900 02:28:18,800 --> 02:28:23,760 » Which one is that? What's the amount of that one? 1901 02:28:21,359 --> 02:28:27,359 » 23 2251. >> What do you I don't see that on my 1902 02:28:25,439 --> 02:28:29,520 schedule. Where's that? >> Oh, that's 1903 02:28:27,840 --> 02:28:34,560 » towards the the bottom. Right above the on call animal. Yep. 1904 02:28:31,280 --> 02:28:38,160 » Okay. Maybe I'm not understanding me. So I'm I'm looking at this first bucket. 1905 02:28:37,200 --> 02:28:43,120 » Yeah. Yeah. >> Not down the bottom from the top down. 1906 02:28:41,120 --> 02:28:49,399 But if if it's going to be restored up to 28, 1907 02:28:44,960 --> 02:28:49,399 you would restore from the bottom up. 1908 02:28:50,240 --> 02:28:54,479 » No, that's different than the way the school's done it. So do I ask you that 1909 02:28:53,840 --> 02:28:58,640 question? So >> Oh, then ours might be flipped. Our our 1910 02:28:56,240 --> 02:29:00,880 ours goes from priority. >> The priority. 1911 02:28:59,760 --> 02:29:07,280 » That's not how I was. >> Yeah, that's not how I was. Well, that's 1912 02:29:02,640 --> 02:29:12,960 why I said so if there's the only way to talk to on call control animal control 1913 02:29:11,120 --> 02:29:15,760 » the school is at the bottom as well because if you look the the custodians 1914 02:29:15,359 --> 02:29:21,520 are >> well the priority to to keep the cut is 1915 02:29:19,760 --> 02:29:26,000 at the bottom. >> The priority to first cut is at the top 1916 02:29:23,920 --> 02:29:31,600 of the school list. Yes. >> Yeah. and so 1917 02:29:29,680 --> 02:29:33,120 » okay so that so we're saying the same thing now 1918 02:29:32,399 --> 02:29:37,920 » I think we are >> so the library is the library reduction 1919 02:29:36,000 --> 02:29:41,840 of 21,000 I'm sorry your HR halftime person is the 1920 02:29:40,319 --> 02:29:47,040 the number one cut that >> yes because we cut it in half 1921 02:29:44,080 --> 02:29:50,399 » so that's that's your first cut to happen 1922 02:29:47,920 --> 02:29:55,520 » then we go to the library >> next so to get down to the 2.8 8 budget. 1923 02:29:54,319 --> 02:29:59,359 » It's everything above that. >> It's everything above that. 1924 02:29:57,439 --> 02:30:01,760 » It doesn't include the the thing you were talking about, the land use, 1925 02:30:00,479 --> 02:30:05,040 » the people. Sorry, I thought I thought you were making a general statement that 1926 02:30:03,280 --> 02:30:08,160 we didn't >> Yeah. No, I'm talking I'm trying to talk 1927 02:30:07,280 --> 02:30:10,080 about getting >> Yeah, sorry. I I thought you were 1928 02:30:09,359 --> 02:30:14,160 talking about in >> How hard are these cuts to get down to a 1929 02:30:12,319 --> 02:30:20,080 three 39 2.8 budget? 3 3.9 schools, 2.8 for 1930 02:30:18,880 --> 02:30:24,640 the Y. >> And this is that list. So it's, you 1931 02:30:23,120 --> 02:30:29,479 know, I'm doing the same thing I did for the school. I looked at their what 1932 02:30:26,000 --> 02:30:29,479 they're, you know, 1933 02:30:29,520 --> 02:30:37,040 » this is the question. So when I see a $1,000 increase, 1934 02:30:34,640 --> 02:30:41,920 look, nobody likes paying real estate taxes. It arrives in the mail like I 1935 02:30:39,120 --> 02:30:48,240 would take. Uh, but they you see a thousand buck increase and you go, 1936 02:30:45,040 --> 02:30:53,760 "Well, 20 bucks a week. 50 50 weeks a year. Thousand bucks, 20 bucks a week. 1937 02:30:51,439 --> 02:30:59,040 I'm not thrilled. I'm not happy. But what the hell? You don't you I take it 1938 02:30:56,479 --> 02:31:01,760 your face right now. In addition to what you said earlier, you don't think 1939 02:31:00,080 --> 02:31:06,080 anybody thinks about it that way. >> No. If you're getting filled in your 1940 02:31:03,600 --> 02:31:10,560 Mastercard or Visa 20 bucks a week, you wouldn't pay attention to what you have 1941 02:31:07,920 --> 02:31:15,680 to bill every quarter and it's four or $500 whatever it is more divided by 1942 02:31:13,120 --> 02:31:20,399 four. Then it is noticeable. And when they think about it, oh my taxes right 1943 02:31:17,439 --> 02:31:22,720 now, uh 10,000. It's going to go to He likes tax. 1944 02:31:21,280 --> 02:31:25,920 » I don't know who they know like I think they're thinking about it the aggregate 1945 02:31:24,399 --> 02:31:30,960 when they're sitting in the audience. >> Yeah. Broken down by 1946 02:31:28,080 --> 02:31:35,359 » I mean I I get it. You know the school committee who was it Will Horn said oh 1947 02:31:33,040 --> 02:31:40,160 it's a couple meals out you know kind of thing. And I get that but people people 1948 02:31:38,160 --> 02:31:43,680 don't think that way. I agree with that. People spoke to us. You know what's 1949 02:31:42,640 --> 02:31:47,520 what's the impact? >> I guess you know we talked about the 1950 02:31:45,920 --> 02:31:50,960 commitment statement a little bit ago. We also raised the issue on a safer 1951 02:31:49,359 --> 02:31:57,040 grant and some of I mean there's some risk here in 1952 02:31:54,080 --> 02:32:01,359 where is the number that is is going to let us deal with some of 1953 02:31:59,600 --> 02:32:05,840 those I mean there are contractual labor issues especially on the town side I 1954 02:32:03,040 --> 02:32:10,319 mean going back to what Pete raised is some of these things that are baked in 1955 02:32:08,479 --> 02:32:15,680 for next year and we're going to make a commitment that we're going to you know 1956 02:32:11,439 --> 02:32:21,359 try to stay away from another override. Have we built in enough to make sure we 1957 02:32:18,640 --> 02:32:25,520 can get close to that? I mean, like safer just is right off the the top, 1958 02:32:23,280 --> 02:32:29,600 right? That's a pretty significant percentage basis for the the town. 1959 02:32:28,240 --> 02:32:32,880 That's not small. >> Well, I turn to Christine to kind of I 1960 02:32:31,840 --> 02:32:36,319 thought we >> So, that's going to be in in fiscal year 1961 02:32:34,640 --> 02:32:41,200 28 and we're going to work we're raising the fees for ALS to help offset that and 1962 02:32:39,520 --> 02:32:45,520 we're going to draw more from the ALS revolving fund to try and keep those in. 1963 02:32:43,840 --> 02:32:49,359 So they they think it can be worked. >> Yeah. 1964 02:32:47,040 --> 02:32:53,760 » We're trying to be as creative is what she's saying. 1965 02:32:50,640 --> 02:33:00,560 » Trying to be as creative as possible. >> So we feel like I guess that we feel 1966 02:32:56,720 --> 02:33:04,960 like these scenarios are to the best of our knowledge kind of 1967 02:33:03,120 --> 02:33:09,359 where we think they're they're representative of what we think is going 1968 02:33:07,600 --> 02:33:12,800 forward to the best of our knowledge given current information. 1969 02:33:10,800 --> 02:33:19,120 » Yeah, I think so. I hate to say and I said this before. I think that let's say 1970 02:33:15,200 --> 02:33:24,319 we went with the 39 or the 35 one of those two. Uh when the schools do 1971 02:33:21,840 --> 02:33:28,160 their budget 28, they're going to command it at higher than the number 1972 02:33:26,319 --> 02:33:33,840 that we have on the spreadsheet. But what they're going to have to do is 1973 02:33:29,680 --> 02:33:38,720 commit to do additional cuts to get back to the number that's on the that's on 1974 02:33:36,720 --> 02:33:41,680 the piece of paper. That's, you know, that's why in this in this commitment 1975 02:33:40,960 --> 02:33:46,880 statement, >> right, 1976 02:33:42,000 --> 02:33:53,439 » we've got in here that the annual regs annual operating budget 1977 02:33:49,280 --> 02:33:58,240 uh growth of 28 will not exceed x% whenever we decide. 1978 02:33:56,080 --> 02:34:02,160 So, and the town will make a similar commitment. 1979 02:33:59,760 --> 02:34:06,080 I did a quick calculation this afternoon and I just said, "Okay, if the school 1980 02:34:03,600 --> 02:34:12,880 goes up 4% 73, I forget which I 1981 02:34:10,640 --> 02:34:19,399 have to cut another 200,000 next year to get to the get to the goal." That's why 1982 02:34:15,439 --> 02:34:19,399 you need to put that in there. 1983 02:34:22,880 --> 02:34:27,680 » Yeah. >> D in blood. 1984 02:34:25,280 --> 02:34:34,520 » Cut your fingers. >> Don't have any left. 1985 02:34:30,319 --> 02:34:34,520 You're going to use your fingers, Peter. 1986 02:34:34,960 --> 02:34:44,800 But I think I think you know um well 1987 02:34:40,960 --> 02:34:53,200 so I mean people comfortable with I guess Ed's recommendation of the the uh 1988 02:34:49,439 --> 02:35:00,080 39 and the 35. I know that it has one option that you said you 1989 02:34:57,280 --> 02:35:02,800 » unless you go five or 49 or 46. I'm going to support getting the override 1990 02:35:01,520 --> 02:35:04,880 because we need the override. >> Yeah. 1991 02:35:03,040 --> 02:35:07,920 » So if this body says it's going to be 39, I'm going to support 39. I'm not 1992 02:35:06,800 --> 02:35:09,040 going to be the one saying no, don't vote for it. 1993 02:35:08,800 --> 02:35:16,160 » Okay. >> But I mean, so yeah, those two are in 1994 02:35:11,840 --> 02:35:19,280 the ballpark, you know. I mean 884 is twice 1995 02:35:17,760 --> 02:35:21,680 tax increase you would otherwise have. That's a to me that's a key number. 1996 02:35:21,280 --> 02:35:24,479 » Yeah. >> It isn't the absolute dollar amount 1997 02:35:23,359 --> 02:35:27,840 because remember it's going to go up by another 400 next year and 400 over that 1998 02:35:26,479 --> 02:35:32,000 400 over that because it goes up every year by two and a half%. So it's not 1999 02:35:30,240 --> 02:35:36,640 just what this year, right? And then this is a permanent increase in the tax 2000 02:35:33,600 --> 02:35:41,680 levy. So I I just feel like we run a risk if we only talk about from 2001 02:35:40,080 --> 02:35:46,319 a static perspective as instead of saying we're really trying to think 2002 02:35:43,280 --> 02:35:52,720 about, you know, the the trajectory of your taxes through time, longitudinal uh 2003 02:35:50,319 --> 02:35:57,280 trajectory as long-term residents of Medfield, right? So I think that so 2004 02:35:55,680 --> 02:36:01,040 yeah, I kind of b at it when it gets over a thousand just because it's two 2005 02:35:59,520 --> 02:36:06,120 and a half times what the average home would be increasing anyway. 2006 02:36:03,120 --> 02:36:06,120 Yeah, 2007 02:36:06,240 --> 02:36:13,520 none of this really solves the structural deficit. This is a good 2008 02:36:11,280 --> 02:36:17,840 bandaid for two years. And then as you said, we had this conversation last time 2009 02:36:15,840 --> 02:36:21,520 into 29. >> Um 2010 02:36:19,520 --> 02:36:26,240 that instead of having that, you know, 18 or 21, it might be three or three a 2011 02:36:24,479 --> 02:36:29,240 little over three because when I go back hospitality 2012 02:36:30,000 --> 02:36:33,840 kick in. >> Yeah. I think I think 2013 02:36:32,479 --> 02:36:39,520 » it's just a band-aid. >> I think of it as a uh I call it a bridge 2014 02:36:37,040 --> 02:36:44,080 » bridge. >> It's a bridge to a bridge to 29 when the 2015 02:36:42,640 --> 02:36:50,000 hospital >> uh hope 2016 02:36:46,960 --> 02:36:57,160 the hospital comes. You know, if I take I think that's that's kind of how we 2017 02:36:51,840 --> 02:36:57,160 have to talk about it. It's right 2018 02:36:57,359 --> 02:37:03,800 » two years it'll be Joe and Ashley's. Yes. 2019 02:37:05,840 --> 02:37:14,000 » If I get reappointed, >> the 39 seems like 2020 02:37:11,840 --> 02:37:16,640 » 39 seems like sweet spot. >> No question. 2021 02:37:14,640 --> 02:37:23,200 » Is that what we're saying? Well, I think what I think I think the suggestion was 2022 02:37:18,960 --> 02:37:30,240 that we we narrow it down to 35 or 3 and 39 and take that to the working group 2023 02:37:26,720 --> 02:37:35,920 » then take their feedback and next time we meet we'll share the 2024 02:37:32,960 --> 02:37:42,000 feedback and and u and then we'll make a decision. So you 2025 02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:46,560 » at least between the between the two. I do like the 39 superintendent 2026 02:37:45,040 --> 02:37:50,640 » put a lot of thought into that. That's where he came to. 2027 02:37:48,560 --> 02:37:54,640 » Okay. We're not we're not we're not forcing that decision yet. 2028 02:37:52,000 --> 02:38:00,720 » No, but no, but but also like whichever one of these speaking my wife and 2029 02:37:58,000 --> 02:38:02,960 myself, whichever one the highest one on here, we're we're both going to support. 2030 02:38:02,640 --> 02:38:07,120 Okay. >> A lot of my neighbors feel the same way. 2031 02:38:04,880 --> 02:38:13,040 » Okay. I know that's not the same everywhere in town. That's what I'm 2032 02:38:09,760 --> 02:38:18,319 gonna do personally. Okay. >> Ask me a question. Yeah. 2033 02:38:15,280 --> 02:38:23,280 » Um, is there any advantage to going into that working group? So, not endorsing 2034 02:38:20,880 --> 02:38:28,479 right now as a vote, but kind of saying for your working group conversation 2035 02:38:25,840 --> 02:38:32,800 to go in with one to kind of like versus two that are close together. Does that 2036 02:38:30,800 --> 02:38:38,080 help you in any way in your conversation? Well, it doesn't give them 2037 02:38:35,280 --> 02:38:41,200 that. It's then you're not asking for their input. You're just telling them 2038 02:38:39,600 --> 02:38:46,640 what you think. >> I I think that's probably not the right 2039 02:38:44,080 --> 02:38:51,760 way to go about it. >> I mean, I we could I I'll share the 2040 02:38:48,880 --> 02:38:56,319 honest opinions of like we have, you know, we came down to these two. There's 2041 02:38:54,560 --> 02:39:01,760 some people who would support the highest amount that as a committee we we 2042 02:38:58,960 --> 02:39:05,280 approve. Um nobody has. The other problem is we have 2043 02:39:03,760 --> 02:39:07,600 two people on the committee that aren't here tonight. So, 2044 02:39:06,399 --> 02:39:09,760 » right. >> Um 2045 02:39:08,560 --> 02:39:12,160 » I can assure you everybody on the working group is gonna watch this 2046 02:39:10,880 --> 02:39:14,720 meeting before our working group meeting. 2047 02:39:13,520 --> 02:39:17,960 » Yeah. They're going to hear what you just said. 2048 02:39:22,000 --> 02:39:27,200 » Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. Everybody comfortable 2049 02:39:26,080 --> 02:39:33,040 with that approach? >> Yeah. 2050 02:39:27,680 --> 02:39:36,760 » Okay. All right. Okay. So, um I think we will just uh 2051 02:39:36,800 --> 02:39:43,359 uh the the war articles this updated 2052 02:39:41,200 --> 02:39:47,280 schedule I handed out to everybody. That's what we'll do next. Well, we'll 2053 02:39:45,200 --> 02:39:51,040 actually all the ones we were supposed to do tonight, we'll have to cover next 2054 02:39:49,280 --> 02:39:52,319 meeting, which is quite a few of them, but 2055 02:39:51,920 --> 02:39:56,880 » um >> Okay. And we'll send out I have uh two 2056 02:39:54,640 --> 02:40:00,479 updated articles that town council finished today, but I will send out a 2057 02:39:58,160 --> 02:40:08,319 mini draft. Yeah. uh which I included. >> Okay. And then um the uh 2058 02:40:05,439 --> 02:40:11,120 the any updates, Pete, on the school building committee? 2059 02:40:09,280 --> 02:40:17,520 » Uh yeah, I'm a little distant from it, but they did have uh interviews with the 2060 02:40:14,080 --> 02:40:25,200 three finalists for the LPM position. They were going to get together to meet 2061 02:40:20,640 --> 02:40:31,120 and score uh the three finalists based on their impressions of the in-person 2062 02:40:29,200 --> 02:40:34,399 uh interviews. >> Yeah. 2063 02:40:31,520 --> 02:40:38,160 » Uh and I assume uh that's happened by now, but I don't 2064 02:40:36,560 --> 02:40:44,399 know the outcome of it. I don't know which of the three finalists they've uh 2065 02:40:40,800 --> 02:40:49,920 selected this now once they 2066 02:40:46,640 --> 02:40:55,520 have a choice it gets submitted to the MSBA. 2067 02:40:51,760 --> 02:41:03,280 Um and the MSBA has reserves itself the right to turn down. uh they say they 2068 02:41:00,080 --> 02:41:08,240 don't do the the what we've heard anecdotally is that they do that not as 2069 02:41:06,160 --> 02:41:14,000 frequently with the architect they do it less with the OPF 2070 02:41:10,560 --> 02:41:20,000 uh but there was one instance that Bob Worth knew about where I think it 2071 02:41:17,680 --> 02:41:25,439 was Bob but somebody else but where the someone picked an OPM and the MSBA said 2072 02:41:23,040 --> 02:41:30,640 no they just got a big project in Brockton we don't think they can handle 2073 02:41:27,840 --> 02:41:38,000 yours and Brockton go pick somebody else. So, so we're not there yet, but 2074 02:41:35,200 --> 02:41:44,160 the goal is mid midappril to have an OPM and then 2075 02:41:42,160 --> 02:41:47,600 we'll start down the road towards picking an architect which is 2076 02:41:45,680 --> 02:41:52,960 » okay more involved. >> Okay, good. Anything on the capital 2077 02:41:50,479 --> 02:41:56,960 budget committee? >> That's good. 2078 02:41:55,120 --> 02:42:02,800 All right, unless there's anything else to entertain a motion to adjourn. 2079 02:41:59,920 --> 02:42:05,760 » You should know on April 6th will be as an MSA meeting 2080 02:42:05,040 --> 02:42:09,880 » on April 6. >> I'm aware of that. I'm going to 2081 02:42:10,640 --> 02:42:16,520 » motion to second. >> All in favor? 2082 02:42:20,319 --> 02:42:23,560 with these.