[music]
» Woo.
» [music]
» Meeting for Mark Lawson.
April 6th,
2026. Almost got me.
Uh the first item is going to be a
presentation, uh Mr. Mayor.
Thank you, Mr. President. Uh
Schenectady had a long-term relationship
with the Center for Technology and
Government, which is the applied
research unit at the University of
Albany.
And uh they're here tonight to uh
talk on uh community asset tracker and
working with our code enforcement.
With that, I'll
Eric's leading us off for the Yes.
Thank you.
So, I'd like to just
uh walk through uh some of the brief
history that we've had with
You said 2026.
People at home can't
hear in this room.
You want me to stand up? Just your
camera so they can see who's talking.
All right.
It's for the people at home.
This council's tricky.
Uh brief history of the center working
with the city. Um talk about our uh our
community asset tracker innovation that
we've been working on.
>> [clears throat]
>> And, um,
currently working forward with Project
Connecticity.
Uh, so we have a nice long, you can see
20, uh, 15. We started working with, uh,
the city on, um, some urban blight
projects. So, uh, the mayor came to the
center and and,
talking about, uh,
information challenges around, um,
finding the blight. And, uh, so we had a
project that ran for a number of years,
funded by the, uh, near the Department
of State local government efficiency
program.
And that system was is, uh, a designed
to give the code officers technology in
the field, so the information could flow
quicker. Instead of using, uh,
clipboards to collect data for
inspections and things like that, they
have were given technology in the field
that was linked with data back in the
office,
so that they could more easily collect
data in the field, as well as look up,
um, information that they needed while
they're out on the site.
That project also,
uh, included a couple other city
Cloverhill and Amsterdam in that project
with, uh, similar technology, similar
challenges.
Um, and as a result, one of the other
results of that was this, um,
information sharing platform that was
created called code to help similar,
um,
code departments across the state to
share information about, um, different
programs that they carry out and how
they carry them out and the benefits of
those,
as well as the opportunity to share data
amongst each other.
So, at the center, we use, uh, workshops
and interviews as ways to better
understand the context of problems.
And in this last project that I
just described, we were meeting with the
city and, um,
there was a garbage truck driver at this
meeting.
We had, uh, some code officials there,
also.
The garbage truck driver knew so much
about what was happening in the
community just by the fact that he's out
in the community doing his job.
Uh, however,
his responsibility was to drive the
truck and make sure that, uh, the people
working with him was safe. He didn't
have the opportunity to share that
information with the codes departments
and other departments, uh, DGS
departments that could use that
information.
And at that time, I
think it as a computer scientist, maybe
we can teach a computer to do this.
Maybe we can teach a computer to help
collect this information right along
with the vehicle, in the vehicle, to
collect that information so that it can
be shared in, uh, with other
departments.
Taking advantage of the fact that
they're in the field.
And so that's what we have. We call it a
community asset tracker.
Um, there's a, we call it a sensor that
goes on the vehicle that is already out
in the field carrying out its, its, um,
its work.
And it, uh, is trained to collect
information that, um,
the code department or DGS department
find deems important and necessary.
And, um,
that initial work is is also funded by,
uh, SUNY technology
grant.
So, where we are today, um, we've been
meeting with the mayor and, uh, some of
his team,
uh, for the past, uh, several months and
understanding
what types of objects and issues do they
want
this system to be able to collect. What
would be useful for their teams? What
would enable some new efficiencies
that, um,
that we could, uh, explore with this
technology. So, we've been developing
that list and training our system. And
we're in the process of setting up a
pilot to give this a go, to give it a
try, set it up, let it run,
give the the, um, staff an opportunity
to make use of this data and to see how
it can be improved and measure its
impact.
Um,
so, this is, um, this is a system
that's, uh, that we, have. There's many pieces to it, um,
and since I've been talking kind of that
in abstract about the work in the city
because it's not together yet, I thought
it would be good,
uh, to show,
um, an example. So, we have this
technology,
uh, being used by CDTA.
And CDTA is very interested in, um,
using this technology to
monitor the cleanliness and safety of
their bus shelters.
Okay?
And so we're piloting that with them and
we've been doing that for about 2 years
now, a year and a half, and
we've got two buses on a single line,
the red line goes from Albany to
Schenectady. And so we've got a short
list and of things that they wanted us
to keep track of and that's trash,
broken glass, graffiti, snow and ice,
um, and, uh, one that's not on there is,
uh, the garbage bin, is it full or not?
And this is really to help, uh, they
have, uh,
380 shelters
and they have a staff that is
responsible for cleaning these shelters
and
they need a way to help direct their
staff to figure out, well,
um, where should they go,
um, at what point and how to manage, you
know, they if they what they don't want
to do is have, guys, just go on a
regular schedule to shelters that are
already clean
and and then miss the ones that need
attention. And so that's how they want
to use this technology.
So, what I have here is kind of an
infographic. If we look in the top left,
that is, uh, the side of the bus and
that's where the sensor is mounted. The
next one over to the right is a map in the long line is that's the bus route
and the dots are where the stops are.
So, as it goes by a stop,
it knows that it's at a stop, it takes a
picture and the AI looks at that picture
and determines, hey, that garbage can,
is it full or not? Um, is there any
trash on the ground? How what are the
other indicators that they're interested
in monitoring?
Um,
the So, that's what we see in the top
right and the bottom left, um, we also
see the shelter and we can see that, um,
it's not meeting their standard for, um,
cleaning up the snow between the shelter
and the street. So, that's identifying
that.
Uh, what's on the right is, um, a piece
of their dashboard and that shows the
things in red are the things that, um,
uh, they have different levels that they
wanted to be notified about and so when
it reaches a certain level, they're red
and that's what we see there is the red
items.
And that gives the,
um, the staff the ability to,
validate. So, they can look at that
entry and then
look at the detail. So, they can see
what they the computer was doing and
then they can make an informed decision.
Am I going to change my route and go
take care of this or is, yeah,
this is fine, I'll get to it later or
I'll pass that on.
So, this is a,
um,
you know, their their their example is
much more simple than the city's. The
city's example is is much more
complicated, it's a lot more items and
they
the, uh, the region is bigger,
um,
but the idea is the same. The the
process is the same and the outcomes
we're looking to do something very
similar, uh, dashboard level,
uh, of information for staff.
So, where we are now, like I said, we're setting up the pilot. We want to
continue this,
um, and we want to build this out. We
want to see this, uh, functioning and
supporting the staff at
in the city here.
Um, mayor's team has submitted a,
uh, Department of State grant, uh, the
beginning of the year
and the goal is to use that as a way to,
um, build this out and include,
um,
other cities which were also in the
application, Albany and Village of
Richfield Springs.
Um,
and the focus is, um,
you know, OGS and code enforcement ex-
exterior property maintenance type of
issues.
And, of course, like the past project,
the goal is and and I think the mayor
and his staff did well last time, too,
in this project was
being an example. They they're leaders
in many regards and what they've done
and learned here, they've shared and so
we're looking to do something very
similar here.
So, thank you.
Any questions or comments? Mr. Mayor,
thank you for giving me the opportunity
first.
Again, this has been a long-term
relationship that's evolving but one of
the practical applications of it
on the agenda tonight also is
in terms of garbage collection to be
able to
size
profile things that are on the curb for
garbage collection and to incorporate
that in an automated manner and also do
it in a manner that
would be reflected in the code so that
it would improve our overall efficiency
in terms of
uh garbage collection, managing uh
recyclables
Now we're picking up more of the uh yard
waste that's coming up. But there's an
element of randomness in what we do and
this would allow to be
much more sophisticated in terms of the
tracking and
just improving [clears throat] the
overall delivery of services.
Thank you. Any other questions or
comments? Mr. Chairs?
With uh reading this uh looking at your
presentation I got to look at a little
bit earlier as well. I want to
appreciate what you guys have already
done in data collection along the way
and I agree with the mayor on the way of
it would help ease the concern as we
talked about our last committee meeting,
right? That
our OGS workers don't know when there's
bulk items that are going to be there.
They can't prepare for the night before
where technically your technology would
allow us that opportunity to prepare the
staff for what they can pick up so they
can adjust their timing. Um one more
question is I know we're getting grant
funding for it now too with the pilot
program. If the city was to implement
this long-term, I believe it's going to
be very successful. If you don't have
grant funding, how much does it cost for
the city to operate something like this?
We don't know yet.
So, we're we you know, we're piloting a
single sensor.
Um and we haven't figured out we don't
have a model yet for well, how many does
the city need?
Um so, that depends on that. We don't we
don't have a model yet for you know, how
much data is needed to be collected.
Uh so, that's what we're hoping to
learn. You know, the pilot that we're
this small pilot that we're doing is
going to continue regardless of the
grant. The grant is well, it would help
speed things up.
Thank you.
Any other questions or comments? Mr.
Doran? Yes, thank you. You mentioned
that the mayor and staff had put
together what might be useful for us
here in the city. Can you elaborate on
what what
they're thinking the mayor [music] can
say that what what it what what
specifically are we working on here
that's useful?
>> Um okay, so like high-level categories
of things well, exterior prop exterior
property maintenance items.
Um
there was some like road infrastructure
type of things um like uh street cuts
and those kind of things um
to alert OGS that hey, work is going on
perhaps permitted or not permitted.
I'd also like to thank the mayor and
everyone else on our smart cities. I
know he's looking into technology to
help our staff and workers just move
forward in an easier way making things
easier for us to work. Move forward as a
city. Thank you.
Call up there any no further questions.
Um I had two.
The first one before I get into that
definitely any considerations because
this is very very exciting cutting-edge
technology. I think Schenectady has
always been on the forefront of these
types of
policy changes where we're turning into
the fold with technology.
And my question was about the
data-driven improvements and we talked
about some of the issues that the CDTA
was identifying with its two sensors. Do
you have any statistical findings
speaking to just the improvements or
cost savings or just time savings,
anything just numerically?
So, CDTA has not they don't have this in
their hands yet. Their staff
So, the dashboard that I showed you,
that is
going to be released to them next week.
So, they're like I said, they're ahead
but not that much ahead.
And then the only reason why I mentioned
that is that I think as you pitched this
initiative to the city, I think we all
grapple onto that and we're like, "Oh my
gosh, this could really solve a lot of
our issues." But really wanted to make
sure we're realistically looking at what
we can achieve especially if it's a
single sensor model.
Um my other question was you talked
about how the device captures just the
quote unquote issues that are
identified. Is it able to capture those
while the vehicle or apparatus it's
attached to is in motion or does it have
to be at a stop?
Uh no, this works um up to 60 mph.
So, we will not be driving that fast
within the city.
>> [laughter]
>> That's right. Or shouldn't be. Or
shouldn't be.
That's the issue.
Um
and then Mr. Chairs spoke of a question
but wanted to make sure if the city
wasn't able to secure the grant for this
are [snorts] we able to or are we
confidently recommending this moving
forward regardless, Mr. Mayor?
We're going to continue to move forward
on this. We're also this is one aspect
of it. We're also working with Civil
uh
the company that primarily [snorts]
focuses on
street surface. So,
their cameras point directly down.
Even though they also have side view
which will track uh other assets, street
signs, uh fire hydrants,
uh
other municipal infrastructure.
And it's how do you take the uh
work that we're doing with Civil
incorporate it with
the uh platform that CPG is working with
and then other data that we collect and
maintain. And it's that
just the work in the city of
Schenectady. The real value is the
ability to have a platform that would be
uh implementable on a state-wide and
nation-wide basis.
Thank you.
Uh if there are no further questions or
comments, I think the I can at least
speak for myself really excited to see
next steps and what this could really do
to beneficially impact uh just our
ongoing struggles.
Um thank you, sir. Thank you.
Uh so, due to Mr. Murnane being out, I
will call to order the Finance
Committee.
Uh we have five items on the agenda for
discussion. The first of which is to
award a bid contract for the Globe
firefighting gear. Chief Burns, it looks
like you're here. Just on vacations.
Good evening. Hope everybody had a good
Easter and good holiday.
Um this is pretty straightforward. We
put out the bid 10 sets of Globe turnout
gear or for 10 sets of Globe gear.
Um Garrison Fire and Rescue Corp came
back with the uh the bid.
Uh they were the only ones who got back.
So,
pretty easy bid budget for us this year.
So, it's in our budget so nothing to
worry about finding money.
Um one thing Chief Burns did put in
there, he's he's requesting that uh the
council considers that we look at the
option of
adding another four years to this
contract just to consider because we've
been dealing with Garrison's the local
supplier for Globe. Globe meets our
standardization requirements in the city
of Schenectady.
So, it's just something for you guys to
consider.
Uh opening up for questions or comments.
I think my only immediate question was
have there been any previous issues with
securing if we were not considered I
guess proceeding with the yearly
review?
No, they
This is uh so, we try to rotate
how many sets we buy every year because
it's pretty expensive. So, we don't want
to
hit hit you guys with a you know, we
need 120 sets of turnout gear you know,
every five years. So, we try to stagger
it every 10.
Um that's why we're asking for 10 sets
right now.
Okay.
Uh at the four-year
singular year
and like allowing you to proceed with
additional four one-year periods.
Right. So, that's he's basically he's
asking for a five-year contract with Garrison. That's what I think his
intention is here with this.
Got you. Thank you. Any questions or
comments?
Uh hearing none, um Corporation Counsel
here?
Yeah, does it need to be different or
what?
Put your time in here. I mean, the the bid
did they have the four-year option in
that bid? I know it wasn't really
attached a lot of materials to that.
>> I would have to look. Yeah, so I'll have
to look. But in the short term, we can
get by with the purchase of this
you know,
10 sets of firefighting uh
jackets. Yeah, jackets. Jackets. And
then we can take a look at
you know, next time
for options to extend that out. Okay.
So, for the short term, I just recommend
we award the bid one-year contract and
then we can take a look at that
the document if we need to or
put it out again for the time period
requested.
Thank you.
Any questions or comments? So, hearing
none with that adjustment to just
consider this one-year period, is there
a motion? I'll move it. I'll second. All
those in favor? Aye. Thank you.
Uh moving to the next agenda item, it's
a grant award 2025-2026
Discover form.
Uh Chief
Oh,
sorry. Chief Palombo.
» Thank you.
Good evening everyone.
Here to present the 2025-2026
discovery reform grant award.
This is through the Department of
Criminal Justice Services DCJS
>> [clears throat]
>> and Schenectady County received money
through this for discovery reform.
We ultimately came up with a memorandum
of understanding MOU with the county
that they are going to allocate $75,000
to the police department
to assist in this endeavor.
Ultimately, the money is going to go
um
to help us better for lack of better
explanation save space in the
department.
Space is a premium. We're running out of
it especially with all the documents
evidence that we have to collect and
maintain over the years.
So in keeping with the times and
supporting compliance with the discovery
law requirements that were enacted in
2020
um
ultimately we're going to use this money
to and we're working with the IT
department to
get servers and a bunch of scanners and
other
tech items. Ultimately scanning and
preserving the evidence digitally so we
don't have to maintain a physical copy
of it. Again all in compliance.
So the breakdown would be $75,000 to the
department, $20,000 would go to the
digital storage and then $55,000
would go to overtime costs and labor
costs um
in
doing so and scanning everything in
digitally.
Thank you. I'll see any questions or
comments. Hearing none I'll entertain a
motion. I'll second. All those in favor?
I.
Thank you.
The next item is the Dury Community
Foundation ARPA funding recapture and
reprogramming. Ms. Carver.
Good evening City Council.
I come before you today I had brought
this mentioned this earlier this year
about coming before ARPA reallocation
and reprogramming of the Dury Foundation
ARPA funds in the amount of $339,000.
Um
we after review we realized that this
organization does not have the capacity
to manage the funds in a timely manner
so that they can spend the money by the
ARPA deadline.
I don't have the supporting documents
for my recommendation which the
Department of Development is really
recommending that we use these funds
towards Central Park
for several reasons. It gives us more
control um to make sure that we spend
this money
on time versus putting this money out
into the community which will require
environmental reviews and just levels of
complexities that we don't have um time
for.
The Central Park project is to fill the
pool but on the old pool the old pool
sorry to fill the old pool in Central
Park but the goal is to to handle those
issues so that we can create more family
friendly green space in the park. Picnic
tables, maybe single pavilions.
The possibilities are endless but we we
have to address the the the old pool
before we can move forward.
Thank you Ms. Carver. Any questions or
comments?
I just like to comment that that we can
decide that now but on any given night
during the summer park is just full of
families and sometimes they bring their
dogs and they tie their dogs up to the
tree and they have barbecues and
very respectful of everything that's
happening but to the right of tiny tot
land it's like I don't want to say
overcrowded so I think this is a
beautiful idea to to fill in the old
pool, put in a drainage system where you
need to to create more space for
individuals to enjoy the park.
Yeah, thank you.
Ms. Chase. I I actually agree. I want to
thank Ms. Carver for getting this back
to us so fast.
We're looking through details so you and
your team thank you so much for doing
this and
I think that's a great project. I know
myself and the Council President had
talked about that space and where how it
can be used or developed properly to
something else that we can benefit the park as an entirety. So I appreciate
the work you've done and getting this
back to us quickly. Thank you.
And then I'll Mr. Brian. Yes as Mr.
Chairman and Ms. Carver I said regarding
the resolution since it's been
reprogrammed back to the city and
recapture back to the city. Do you want
the resolution to say that that we
reprogram for for for for efforts in
Central Park the
Schenectady Central Park? Do you want to
delineate that now or just at this point
just
have it brought back for reprogramming
for this space?
>> to the council to make that decision. Uh
Mr. Mayor.
We're working up
>> [clears throat]
>> the actual costs on that
and so
if the council
wanted to move ahead with
tonight conceptually
we should have some better numbers by
Wednesday or Thursday to
The engineer's estimate is about
$250,000
to fill in the old pool, put some
drainage in so we don't end up with a
marshy area there because that is a low
lying area.
So
they are working up to do a a bid a
package for so it'll go out to bid. So
their estimate right now is around 250
to
280,000 dollars is their estimate.
Got you. Thank you. Mr. Brian. Yes I
would I would just recommend that you
the resolution for the short term
recapture that money because we want to
get that money
into the city, recapture it and then in
2 weeks when those numbers are more
flushed out then that money that you've
recap captured in this upcoming
resolution can be then reprogrammed out
2 weeks out. At least this way you're
getting the money.
You're you're you're saying that that
project's not there but you're going to
put it there for reprogrammed use.
And then definitely to note Mr.
Terrell's excitement.
>> [laughter]
>> I would err on the side of caution. I
think to to Mr. Brian's point of seeing
those numbers um not reflective of me
taking a position um but also wanted to
make sure to consider there was another
program that reached out for
consideration of these monies as well.
Uh so I wanted to ensure that as we
receive like the formal recommendation
that it reflects the spirit of everyone
that made an attempt to ask. Um what I
did want to point out though is
beyond appreciative to Ms. Carver and
her team for identifying this money and
although very remiss that we could not
use this for the Dury intended use
um I wanted to make sure it was noted
this is in no way a reflection of
Reverend Doctor Solomon sincerely just
recognizing the uh
situation she walked into with Dury and
hands full immediately and identifying
some of the barriers or obstacles that
was before the church to be considered
of additional funding streams was not an
option moving forward.
So I appreciate the conversations that
you and your team had to ensure this
money was not lost and I I think in the
spirit of just addressing the
recapturing
um I would like to entertain a motion
but want to put out another any further
questions or comments.
Um Ms. Toro. I would like to also agree
that we recapture it but
even without the numbers I would like to
at least specify that it'll be used in
Central Park
um
for that specific reason at this time.
>> It's up to the council.
>> Yeah I know it's up to us but again
there are individuals reaching out
whether they can meet anything within
the timelines for ARPA and we may as
well not you may as well but I think
it's very efficient that we keep it for
ourselves for the benefit of everyone in
the community. You know and I don't
disagree with that. I think that we do
have time and the 2 weeks is not going
to negatively impact the the funding
availability. Is that correct Ms.
Carver?
>> Correct. Uh so I think just wanted to
have the numbers in front of us. I think
it's
the but wanting to ensure that we're not
split in the understanding of
recapturing it. So we can agree on that
first and then proceed with the motion.
>> I've heard it so we can entertain a
motion to at least recapture the funds.
I'll make a motion. I'll second. All
those in favor? I.
Thank you Ms. Carver. Thank you.
Uh the next item for discussion is the
revised green fees and rates at the
Schenectady Municipal Golf Course.
That'll be discussed by Mr. Wong or Mr.
O'Brien.
How are you tonight? Pretty good.
Uh what you have in front of you is the
increase for the
green fees.
It is recommended that they increase the
9 hole by a dollar so
the 18 hole will be $2 for the time a
dollar for 9 holes.
$50 across the board for the seasonal
rates and there's a $2 increase for the
double cart cost for 18 holes. This will
keep this at a level
based on regional
courses
and this will help cover the costs that
go up on a yearly basis at the course.
Thank you. Any questions or comments?
I'll make a motion. Um I know in these
instances we usually are uh
have the opportunity to see Mr. Daley. I
think both of them are on vacation
but I did get a chance to send Mr. Wong
a text that he answered on vacation and
they're both very confident in these
recommendations so I'll make a motion.
I'll second. All those in favor? I.
Thank you Ms. Carver. Thank you.
And the last item for discussion is the
Empire State Development Connectivity
Mobile Service Incentive Proposal for
approval. Mr. Cannon.
The sheet passed out.
Thank you.
very much.
» All right. So, I'm seeking approval for
the New York State Empire State uh
Connect I'm sorry, development
ConnectAll mobile service program. This
builds off of the uh already smart city
initiative that we started, the digital
equity initiative, if you will.
Um this goes into the Bellevue
neighborhood so you can see as noted
there in the third bullet.
Um
demonstrates high demand and usage, so I
think this is something that we can all
agree that it can really go to that
other level once we get to the other uh
neighborhood here.
As for evaluation analysis, we're
addressing digital divide in the
low-to-moderate income areas. Um
expands access to education, health
care, workforce, job opportunities, and
reducing the cost of burden for mobile
data.
Um
it's a proven model, as you see there,
scalable, repeatable,
um using the infrastructure that we have
in place already.
Got community support, Bellevue
neighborhood, city school district, and
uh the Reformed Church, and local city
leadership.
Emphasis on quality of life, student
access, and equity. Now, this all comes
down to the grant that we did receive
from New York State, ESD, if you will,
uh 1.6 million. There is a city match of
180,900,
which is 10% of that over the 2 years
that we're going to be working here, so
full 1.8 million, and uh real slam dunk
in my eyes, but want to see what you
guys think.
Thank you. Uh any questions or comments?
Mr. Chair. Thank you for bringing this
to us, and uh ConnectAll obviously is a
proven model works well. We see it
downstairs as well. Right. I'm excited
that we are considering bringing it to
the city of Schenectady. You know, I
would sit on the Finance Committee. I
think the ability that you're putting in
the infrastructure of 70 miles of fiber
is outstanding. So, thank you. All
right. No problem.
Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Um what neighborhoods have been
complete? I've been over to the little
Alamo over there with all kinds of
stuff going on, so Neighborhoods we have
to date, it's uh yeah, North Side,
downtown, we're into the Stockade,
um
Center State there that we got. So, test
my neighborhood knowledge in general.
Um
yeah, that's the lion's share there. I
think with you know,
uh
what's happening today, they're going to
be you know, beneficial to all the
residents in Bellevue area, so
thank you for what you're doing.
Uh any other questions or comments?
I think my uh one question just came to
the uh accurate reflection of immediate
expenses. I know it said the application
fee was $250. Um I also recognize that
there was a 1% commitment fee and
expenses. Can you talk to us some of
those uh additional costs or what the
estimates could potentially be? I
believe the $250 will come out of my
department. Um
and yeah, any other fees that really
need to get reconciled, I'll
kind of probably take from my
department. All right.
Mr. Chair. Just as I'm thinking out
loud, I'm I'm very excited for Bellevue
getting it as there are the plans that I
heard you say that different areas
already have and you know, we're excited
to build we have.
Are there plans in ways to look toward
Hamilton Hill and then to extend that
Bellevue into Mount Pleasant as well? I
think that's the connection. Hamilton
Hill is covered
already.
Into Mount Pleasant, so this is kind of
taking from downtown building out.
So,
Bellevue becomes the next
through
with this grant, and the last
section we do is Woodlawn.
Okay.
And those lines don't quite
line up perfectly with the perceived
neighborhoods, but
trying to build it out. And again, this
has two platforms. One is the public
side, and then there's the secure side
that's used to support police, fire, and
other municipals
municipal services.
Thank you. And then just for clarity,
you said these uh those expenses I
mentioned, you should be able to use
your funds coming from your department,
correct? This will largely use up the
remainder of the smart city money that
has been budgeted in the past.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Uh if there are no further questions or
comments, uh may I entertain a motion?
I'll make a motion. I will second. All
those in favor?
Aye. Aye.
Are there any other items to come before
the Finance Committee? May I have a
motion to adjourn?
Motion. I will second. All those in
favor?
Aye. We are adjourned. Thank you.
We can turn off.
Perfect. I'd like to call to order City
Development and Planning. We have 18
items for discussion.
The first of which is a call for public
hearing regarding the zoning of battery
energy storage systems. Ms. Carver.
Good evening again.
Uh we came before City Council in
December, and we did refer it to the
county. Uh we're asking to amend the
zoning code to include
» [laughter]
>> battery energy injured battery energy
storage systems.
Forgive [laughter] me.
Uh today we're asking City Council just
to consider that addition um
to the code. And the attach was the
referral and the draft of the
legislation from my corporation counsel
for your consideration. Thank you. Any
questions or comments? Mr. Chair, once
again, Ms. Carver, thank you so much for
your for your team getting this back to
us super quickly. BESS is beyond needed,
especially as we see across the state
with what's going on with energy costs.
Um everything's costs are going up, so
being able to have this, being able to
employ it inside those peak hours that
we need it most in the city has been
helping people with driving their bills
back down.
Um so, though I'm not on the committee,
I vote for it. I mean, full support of
being able to have that battery
technology that we can use it as we
need.
Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, just a follow-up. You just
We seek a seeker resolution to go along
as it's amending the zoning code.
The seeker it's a non
non-listed action. So, that will be the
companion piece of legislation, the new
ordinance that's already been before
you. It's been to the Planning
Committee, it's been to the county, so
it's ready for a final vote. Perfect. Uh
if there are no other questions or
concerns, may I have a motion? I'll make
a motion. I will second. All those in
favor?
Aye. Aye.
Uh the next item for discussion is the
recognition of Arbor Day in the city of
Schenectady. Ms. Carver. Um no longer
still, each year we recognize Arbor Day.
This supports our community partners
that do the work um around preserving
trees and green space within the city of
Schenectady. So, the recommendation
today is um that City Council consider
marking April 24th
Arbor Day.
Perfect. And I believe uh there's no
ceremonial action that we need to take
as a council, correct?
Perfect. Okay. I believe they're looking
to present it at another day
with re-treeing
some of the other
activities. Okay. Thank you, sir. Uh
if there are no further questions or
comments, may I have a motion? I'll make
a motion. I will second. All
[clears throat] those in favor? Aye.
The next item for discussion, thank you.
is award bid contract for the signage
and wayfinding bid.
The base bid and alternative number one
to Grafton Data Systems Incorporated in
the total amount of $218,482.50.
Mr. Falcone. Okay. Mr. Falcone is on
vacation, so he's asked me to present
this to you today.
Um
the low bid will be awarded to the
second bidder.
Uh the low bid was an incomplete
package, so it was rejected by um the
Purchasing Department. The low bid will
now go to um
uh
the data Grafton Data Systems in the
amount of $218,480.50.
And this is the um the design locations
and the contents of the sign were
decided by the Finance Committee,
including members of Metroplex, the SIC,
the first meeting with the local
business community for the areas around
downtown, Little Harbor, and
Thank you. Any questions or comments?
Hearing none, may I have a motion?
I will second. All those in favor? Aye.
Thank you.
The next item for discussion is a call
for public hearing, amendment of section
9-2 of the Schenectady City Code. Ms.
Brouse. Um
Mr. Chairman, I'll take this one. Um
this is a follow-up on the appointment
on the resolution from a couple of weeks
ago, snafu on my part regarding the names there, but as a follow-up to
that,
um
in to conform with the the the
amendments to state law, our ordinance
needs to be changed as far as the
membership amount and the membership
um
who are the membership should come from.
You have a draft piece of legislation
there. The underlying materials are the new language. No less than nine
members, no more than 15 members,
staggered over 3 years. 3 years is what
our our city code has, and that goes
into the next part of regarding the
actual appointments. And then the new
language uh
um the deleted language was at least uh
after the word "least", seven members of
the committee must be uh
the owners of uh property within the
district and such and and or agents of
such owners.
The uh law was changed and to say
three-quarters of the then uh uh
current complement of committee members
shall be owners of assessable real
property within the special assessment
district or agents of such owners. So,
we had to
in order to conform with the state law
changes, we're amending our ordinance
accordingly. So, therefore, it has to be
go for a public hearing regarding those
changes to conform to the law.
Thank you.
Any questions or comments?
Hearing none, may I have a motion?
I will second. All those in favor? Aye.
The next item for discussion is the
appointments to the Board of Downtown
Schenectady Improvement Corporation, Mr.
Mayor.
Again, this is being carried forward to
comply with that change.
The first name is forward and uh
I don't know if this has to be called
No, it doesn't. It's we we we
just doesn't have to be changed. But,
the the resolution will have the actual
names. We can go forward with the
appointment resolution.
It includes the the the terms of their
appointment and then we can have the
resolution for the public hearing and
then the ordinance can be amended, but
that's later days.
It's clear all those
names are either residents in the
district or representatives of property
owners.
Perfect. Thank you.
Uh if there are no questions or
comments, may I have a motion?
I will second. All those in favor? Aye.
The next item for discussion is the
appointment to Civilian Police Review
Board, Mr. Mayor.
Again, you want that held for
2 weeks.
Um so, I I think we can proceed with the
SMHA
uh SMHA
recommendation. I
had conversations with the NAACP. They
are recommending someone and I think you
might have that in your inbox right now.
Um I was leaning towards um reaching out
to the Sycamore Collaborative. After
talking to uh Mr. Aldo, they have an
individual in mind that they would like
to proceed with.
Um
I don't know if there's an ex officio
member that we could potentially put
certain name.
Uh
Not her name.
Miss Snear.
And at least to get them on to the
board. I think if you're in agreement
with that, we could proceed moving
forward.
This point, your call. Move ahead with
it, it's fine. We can hold it.
All right. Um
so, Mr. Mayor, if you're in agreement
with us proceeding with the SMHA
recommendation and then proceeding with
the prior NAACP recommendation, moving
them into the ex officio uh
agency.
Yep. All right. Uh Mr. Mayor, do you
have any comments?
>> [clears throat]
>> Um
Is there a motion? Yeah, I'll make the
motion. I will second. All those in
favor? Aye.
Uh the next item for discussion is a
ceremonial resolution honoring the
Ladies Ancient Order of Hibernians, Mr.
Mayor. Yes, thank you. So, uh I think
the staff put it on there. I think I put
it in last 2 weeks ago. Anyway, the uh
resolutions are done. I'll be presenting
it
um on April 18th down at the Edison. Um
from what I understand, one of the uh
highest members of Ladies Ancient Order
of Hibernians from Ireland will be
there. There's a mass at 5:00 at St.
Luke's Church.
And
then followed by the uh a 1:00 mass at
St. Luke's Church and followed by the
celebration
of 125 years down at the Edison Club.
That's it.
Thank you. Any questions or comments?
Hearing none, may I have a motion?
I will second. All those in favor? Aye.
And then just to go back to the
appointments to the Civilian Police
Review Board, there was an individual we
um inadvertently skipped over, Megan
Hasek from the League of Women Voters.
Um Corporation Counsel, we can include
that.
Okay.
>> [clears throat]
>> As well. If we can have the the names in
Yes, we can do
So, Mr. Mayor, there's three names? Yes.
Uh would you like us to move that as
well? Um just amend the previous one.
Move to amend the previously adopted
resolution. Okay. Uh motion to amend the
previously adopted.
Yep. All right. So, I will second. All
those in favor?
>> Aye.
Thank you.
Uh the next item is going to be a
ceremonial resolution recognizing Earth
Day, Mr. Cheers. Uh yeah, so you know,
Earth Day is a big national event. It
was originally established in 1970 by uh
Senator Nelson.
We're going to be having a celebration
at Central Park as well as there's
cleanups scheduled all over the park.
Also, they're all around the city of
Schenectady for that day.
Um we will be at the Central Park event
and coordinate with them to present this
resolution with them at the Central Park
after the program in the morning.
Any questions or comments?
Hearing none, may I entertain a motion?
I will second. All those in favor? Aye.
The next item for discussion is
ceremonial resolution
uh You, Me, and Poetry Festival,
Literacy, Liberation, and Community, Mr.
Cheers. As some of you know, that this
is National Poetry Month and we do have
our city and our local Schenectady Poet
Laureate who's hosting an event. He was
here at the other committee meeting
talking about his event. It is a
festival that goes spans over several
days from April 29th to end of National
uh Poetry Month to May 2nd, which is a
Saturday. I'm looking to present him and
the entire group that's been helping him
with the You, Me, and Poetry uh
celebration at May 2nd 6:00 p.m. event
at Proctors Theater.
Thank you.
Any questions or comments? I entertain a
motion.
I will second. All those in favor? Aye.
And the next item is going to be
Excuse me. Call for public hearing
adopting a community police hiring
panel, Mr. Cheers. Uh those of you that
know that Schenectady has put on the map
by Mr. Will Rivas for his initiative
with the new hire panel allowing for
community residents and organizations to
be a part of the hiring process for our
new officers that come in transferring
or want to get in to SPD. Uh this
program has proven successful. It's a
great partnership with the police force.
I believe that myself and Chief Mason,
our conversation we had, we'd like to
see this continue to live on even if Mr.
Rivas has to step away at any point. I
believe that it gives the community a
voice and opportunity to continue to
work and see who's going to be
protecting and policing their areas. So,
with this public hearing, we'd like to
amend the code to make sure that this
continues beyond
um just the initiative and becomes part
of the city standard.
Thank you. Any questions or comments?
So, just to confirm, it was an
initiative that was put forward by the
council or by No, this individual had
worked with the council in collaboration
before 2020 to 2021. I'm starting it in
multiple Two members of this council had
sat on the new hire panel as well to
various degrees, myself included when I
was an NAACP member.
Um and now we are looking to ratify this
pretty much in to make sure that it
continues to go forward. Okay.
Uh Mr. Mayor.
I incorporated that in the hiring
review. You can't do anything to
minimize my authority to hire police
officers during the term of office. So,
if you want to formalize this or do
something that
hinders that ability or puts a
restriction on it has taken effect in
January of 28.
And
>> And I fully support this panel. We've
brought it in. We've made it part of the
process. It's been extremely successful.
But,
again,
sometimes I disagree with the council in
terms of where the lines are drawn in
terms of the authority.
Mr. Mayor, I want to apologize to you
that indeed did not intend to step over
the line on this one in any way or to
mitigate what's been done or currently
in practice
uh that we use right this second. So, I
didn't look at it in a way of mitigating
your power of hiring um because we use
it right this second. So, I do
apologize, but I would have no problem
amending it if Corporation Counsel to
take effect in 2028 if that's something
that needs to be done. Or Mr. Brian. Uh
members of the council and and and
mayor,
the mayor is the appointing authority
pursuant to the city charter. So, any
sort of changes in that will have to be
amended by the city charter. So,
however, this is a an an advisory
committee, then and if and if you're
looking as an advisory, but the mayor is
still having his authority under the
charter and it's just an advisory. In
other words,
taking what you have now, but just
putting in the code would still giving
leaving the mayor's authority the same.
Um we would have to draft legislation
that actually
put that before you and then call for
the public hearing if we're going to
amend the ordinance. So, we need some
time and Mr. Cheers, if you've got some
language, we could do that and then look
at what is currently being used, but
understanding that the mayor has the
authority as for hiring and and firing
pursuant to the city charter. And if
it's just an advisory board in whatever
context it's currently being used,
that's what you're looking at. Is Is
that That that is correct. So, we're not
looking to to change what we have or to
mitigate the mayor's authority in any
way to make sure that this initiative
doesn't disappear if Mr. Rivas chooses
not to head it up right now. He's the
top person on the new hire panel that
runs it. We'd like to make sure it lives
on past him if he chooses to step away
at any point as we think it's a vital
I rephrase my statement. As I believe it
is a vital step in making sure that the
community has the say in saying who's
coming in to police their area.
I at no point was trying to take
authority away from the mayor or
supersede the code of our city charter.
So, I'm perfectly fine with working with
the mayor's office and you in creating
language to make sure that his power is
not mitigated and the advisory board
remains and remains successful going
forward past Mr. Rivas
if that makes sense.
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
And then if there are no further
questions or comments, what I would like
to add to that is I support putting in
place just structured and legislative
backing. I think everyone to the point
of the conversation right now is in
agreement, but as of now, it's just kind
of ad hoc. There's no formal legislation
beyond the desire to have this
panel
staffed with willing and ready members
of our community.
So, I appreciate Mr. Chairs for taking
the initiative to head this and look
forward to seeing something included in
the code that supports the mayor's
authority but puts in a clear
understanding so that the community can
understand what this panel is charged
with doing and how we ensure that it
lives beyond any individual.
Mr. Alston. Just a reminder of what Mr.
Bryan said, can you
provide our office with information that
you'd like included so that we can put
something together? I will certainly
can. Thank you.
So, at this next step recommendation for
having this back.
Can you solution?
The next item for discussion will be
discussion of city code chapter 161.21
public collection and disposal of solid
waste and next steps.
Our last committee meeting we had
very, very open and productive
conversation of next steps
for recommendations to Mr. Mayor and Mr.
Lafond. I think at this time do not you
have any of those findings to present to
the council.
And I do um
And I did send a couple of questions
over and
sat down with some members of the
waste department also the commission one
and trying to come up with something
that would make a little bit more sense.
Um
But the still the decision is going to
be on the city council on that day. The
current rate is $422.50
per unit. That's what we're charging
currently.
And there is no limit on the amount of
trash that's put outside for us to pick
up.
There is a 45 gallon limit on the cans
that is currently in the
within the bargaining and so we got
entries from our staff.
If you look at that and you make some
arrangements, what my recommendation
would be and again this is a
recommendation, would be to stay with
the 45 or possibly a little 50 gallon
can trash. That would allow anywhere
maybe 50 would allow maybe seven bags.
45 you can really get five bags in
there.
>> [clears throat]
>> Um at the rate that they're currently
paying the $422.50.
Um
The question would become now again
about 22,000 units. And that would
equate to about 3.5 million dollars to
purchase two cans, one recycle can and
one trash can for every unit.
Now the
residents of the units that need two
cans or three cans because they have
larger families,
um those are additional cans that would
have to be purchased and they would have
to pay for those cans just like an
outside commercial person does. So, we
provide one can. If you've got all bags
of trash every week, you're going to
need two cans. You're going to have to
pay for that because it's additional
trash and the city's currently paying
for that $2.50.
Bulk items
and going back to cans again when they
get damaged, we're going to have to have
an inventory. So, you would probably
think that if they are damaged, these
are heavy duty cans. This is based on a
$79 can.
If you look at and research the cans,
the weighted cans with the flip lid and
the wheels even at 50 gallons will range
from low range
$60 to $155 a can. So, if you you put a
bulk order and you get them for 125,
you're talking about 5.something million
dollars just in the available cans for
the units we have. No additional cans
for anybody who wants a third can or
fourth can. And we would have to keep
some cans in stock so when they're
damaged, they can be returned.
Bulk items which seems to be a a subject
suspended right now. We did look at
doing maybe one to two bulk items per
unit once per month. If you did one,
that's 12 bulk items a month. If you did
two, that's 24. That's a lot of bulk
items, okay? And that would be part of
the the current fee structure $422 and 50 cents.
And we would look at doing one bulk one
bulk and then next month you put
another.
Um
The two and three personal did talk to
some of the residents,
um some of the landlords.
Um
we could offer what we would call a
premium service. So,
rentals that we know people come in,
they move.
Landlord puts everything out. They have
you know, they have furniture that they
buy and then they don't want it. It all
comes out on the curb. Landlord could
purchase a premium service. It would be
a fee that would be determined and that
would be
delineated by a different color can. So,
if you had an apartment building with
two units
and you want us to take everything and
there might be five bulk items that are
there's a prepaid fee per year. Whatever
it comes out to is it $590, $600 a year
per unit. And then when those we know
there's a
green can there,
we know those units are paying for that
premium service and we'll pick up all
the bulk items. So, that way it's
understood. If you look at doing bulk
items just once a month, anything out
there, you're going to have the same
problem you have now. Everybody and
their brother's going to bring it all to
their friends, relatives. They're just
going to put it all out there because
it's going for free. If you limit it,
it's only going to be maybe one bulk
item or two bulk items.
Um
The transfer station's already done.
It's always available for us. So, if you
clean out your garage and you got a
bunch of stuff,
you can go down to the transfer station,
dispose of it. But there is a fee even
on the transfer station because
everything that goes to the landfill has
a cost.
You know, somebody's paying for that.
And and
I know it's not going to be decided this
year. It would go on the 27 calendar
where we could put the bulk items like
we did with the white goods.
Certain a month we do white goods,
another day a month we do the bulk items
and you put two out, we take it.
Um
But again, there's an initial upfront
cost. If you look at doing anything
bigger,
the cost on modifying the trucks gets
really way up there.
We have four trucks right now that have
the hook on the back to pick up a can.
Um but we typically put out about nine
trucks. The other thing the bulk item
would do is we can start to separate. We pay fees for yard waste. Yard waste
season's started. So, we have a yard
waste We have two yard waste trucks out
there every day picking up just yard
waste. We pay the county to dispose of
that.
We pick up trash. We pay a rate to get
rid of trash. We have usually eight to
nine trucks out with trash and we have
recycle trucks out. We pay a higher rate
to get rid of recycle. What we would do
is put a truck out once a month to pick
up the bulk items so we can now track
what we're really picking up in tonnage
for bulk items versus trash versus
recycle versus yard waste.
We'll have that data to make decisions
in the future.
But again, if you want to put a working
group together to further do, discuss
it.
We have some time because these changes
are going to take a while. And we do
something with a can, it does prevent
there's an one extra bag or two extra
bags to get charged, be read a
violation. It's in the can, the top is
down, that's what we take.
Thank Mr. Lafond. Would you be able to
supply that those recommendations to the
council? Sure, I can present out the
email to you.
That's my cue.
Um
Before we get into questions and answer
if you don't mind staying up front,
I did have the opportunity to talk to
Mr. Lund part of which is Mr. Toro and I
attended the slick meeting where I
wasn't able to stay for his
presentation.
But sincerely this scope of time, he
said one of his recommendation
recommendations at that was two-tier
approach
wanting to incorporate a lot of the
feedback from the landlords about how do
we continue if we love the
ability to put everything out as
previously. So, tier one if you can
follow me is everything and that come
with a cost. That would essentially be
that premium program you're talking
about. And then the tier two would
incorporate a mixture of the 45 gallon
cans and then two bulk items per pick
up.
Part of that was the assumption that
this technology that we recently that we
just were presented with has the ability
to look at any households that are not
meeting with the threshold of tier one
or tier two.
Um and then wanting to also include the
potential to incorporate multiple
pickups for our commercial
uh commercial
spaces as well.
So, I know just put it on you right now.
Um
He was fairly confident that they could
build that your department could build a
fee structure with that in mind.
Is that something that we take into We
currently have a fee structure for what
we'll call commercial which is four
units or more. So, we do offer a
commercial
trash removal for apartment buildings
with four or more.
Um
With the ones, twos, and threes, it's
just typically the $422
times one times two times three.
But you know, we what we do is we seem
to get the jackpots where we got an
excessive amount of waste. And by doing
the premium package where people are
paying in advance, we know we may get
the excessive amount now and then if a
tenant moves in or moves out, but the
landlord is paying for that. So, we'll
take that.
Uh and again, it's
I think it's more simplified if
those accounts are just you know,
delineated by a specific color garbage
can. Our guys know if there's a red
garbage can there, we're taking it all
because they paid for it. Um
Everybody else,
it's you know, you're going to get a
recycle can and whether it's a 45 gallon
can
um
and it's easy to keep them the same.
They put the sticker on it, that's a
recycle can. The other one's going to be
I think
I'd like to look at a 50 gallon can and
see if we can make arrangements that
gives everybody a little
couple bags extra. Um
But that's it. The lids are closed.
The you know, raccoons are out of it,
the skunks are out of it, the cats are
out of it. That's what we take. And it's
going to [clears throat] take more time
because by taking can on every stop, the
can has to be put back on the curb.
Where a lot of times you know you'll see
our guys grab bags. They'll grab two,
three, four bags at a time and they're
going to the truck and throw them in.
They don't have to go back to the curb
line.
So it will add
cost, whether it's through manpower or
extra time. It's going to take us more
time to you know, to dump this trash and
get it off the curb and return those
cans. Because now you got Everybody's
going to have at least two cans.
Where right now there's just bags and
you know, they're They're good at what
they do. They work hard, you know, and
uh they hustle.
So it will add some time and may
increase our labor, may increase, you
know,
um a number of different trucks on the
road. Maybe we can't do it with nine.
Maybe we got to put, you know, bulk
trucks out.
Um but it's going to be a learning
curve.
Thank you. Any questions or comments?
Mr. Sears?
He's a good guy.
Go ahead.
Um so and I'm I'm really speaking more I
think mostly anecdotally but
the increasing for like say can size to
50. I know we had talked last committee
meeting right before the COVID last 45.
Make sure is that something that the
union would be okay with increasing five
like five gallons per We have to discuss
it with them. Okay.
I think
you know, it's it's there to so they
don't get hurt.
Um but if these cans are on wheels and
they're going to wheel the can to the
truck and just take the bags out, then
maybe it's possible that we go up to the 50 gallon can.
Um
you know, and it gives the the resident,
you know,
a little more available space to put
some trash in.
Is there any way that we could get that
number as well? I know you had got it at
79 and it would have changed the amount
of the the cash amount for the lower No,
because again, you know, if you look at
it, but there are a couple like I said,
there depends on the kind of can you
want. You You don't want a can You need
a the flip top so it stays here. It
won't roll away. You need a can that is
weighted. So again, it's not a long day
at the road. So
again, you can go towards the lower end
of the cans around $79 or less. And you
go to the upper end, you can go to $155
per can for a 50 gallon can. If you look
at $155, if we did bulk let's say we got
them for 130, 125, we're still talking,
you know, 10 million just to get every
We're talking 5 million just to get
everybody two cans.
You know, homeowners as well, I need the
extra can and I'm willing to pay the
additional charge for trash.
You know,
who's paying for the can? Is that going
to be a one-time thing? And we're going
to need spare cans in case they're
damaged or
you know, it's a big capital investment.
Mr. Mayor.
Um so I guess I just want to clarify a
couple points.
How many trucks right now do we collect
recycling with?
Two, sometimes three. Okay. Depending on
the
If we were to push recycling collection
to twice a month instead of every week,
would that free up some of the resources
to be able to collect garbage on the
other
weeks? Do we collect that much recycling
that we need it every We do collect a
fair amount of recycling. For the people
who recycle. Yes, okay. Yes, and we do
pay
You know, like four years ago, five
years ago, recycling was free. There was
no charge for it. We actually pay more
now to dispose of recycling than we do
the actual trash. Okay. So.
And I guess I said at the beginning
April 1st or first work day of April, we
start yard waste. And there's typically
two trucks out for yard waste. What
we've been trying to do now is to put a
cardboard truck out because technically
cardboard is supposed to be separated,
not part of the recycle. It's supposed
to be flattened and tied. And what we
did find is we found an opportunity to
remove the cardboard from the recycle
stream because we pay per ton. Cardboard
can get heavy. There's a lot of
cardboard out because of, you know,
um
everybody getting home deliveries.
Um so we are We did find a revenue
source for cardboard. It's not much, but
it's $20 a ton. So if we keep it out,
we're disposing of that separately and
getting $20 a ton. But if you think
about it, it's also offsetting the
hundred and some dollar per seventy some
dollars a ton that we're paying to get
rid of.
So again, that's two more trucks. That's
more people in more trucks. So
everything we do to try and separate
stuff, to keep it to separate trucks,
um and Deputy Commissioner Lunn is
looking at a grant right now.
Um we possibly get what they call a
split um box truck. You put recycle on
one half, cardboard on the other. They
dump separately. So we are looking into
a grant to see if we could qualify to
get a couple of those trucks.
But that's going to be next year. So as
decisions are made for next year,
we'd be in a better place,
more prepared for it.
And just to follow up on that, you said
that to modify current existing trucks
is expensive. And then you said that
four trucks we have right now were
outfitted with the They do have a a book
to hook on top of your can and to lift
it. Just understand every time you do
that, it's time.
So if you went to a house that had four
cans,
you're going to lift one can at a time.
At the speed of what that truck decides
to lift it. And then put it down and
pick up the next one.
Um
and that amount of time, our staff would
probably be down another block picking
up trash.
Because it they're moving faster than
that mechanical arm can pick that up on
the back. It's not the one arm one you
see up anymore. You know, this is right
on the back with a hook. You got to hook
it to the can, lift it up and dumps it.
And it goes back down. You want to hook
it hook another one manually. So.
It's time consuming.
Any other questions or comments?
Uh so um in that same conversation I was
having with Mr. Lunn, uh
I think one of his recommendations was
we have a sticker program where we are
able to allow individuals that already
have cans
uh
to ensure that as long as it had a lid
attached to it, you could continue using
that.
So I think that could be
Yeah. If we could have tried to
accommodate it if we're going to
standardize the cans
again, you know, a flop lid and it has
to be in the can and the lid is closed.
And that's the amount of trash we would
take.
Uh so I think in the spirit of that,
having options I think allows us to
respond uh appropriately to anyone that
prefers bags or people that prefer cans.
I know it definitely is a
um
trash collection's impact varies between
districts. Uh but needing to ensure that
we are accommodating and not
stereotyping any individuals is
important to find that that balance. And
I think with a tiered approach, I'm one
vote. I think and we went to Slick.
They're very open to maintaining and I
can tell you from a a trash and just a
presentation standpoint, I prefer the bin concept also. I do not prefer
the cost. Uh so I definitely recognize
that is a big factor of it. But if
people can incorporate what they
currently do have with the expectation
that some people will need to buy new
cans,
I think that we can realistically look
at what that could look like and if you
could build a fee structure for that.
Mr. Mayor? Well, I was just going to
follow up on that. Um
I don't like the cost of having to buy
bins. However, I think that
if we were to move to telling homeowners
that they had to have bins that with
lids. Like I know with me specifically,
I am getting ready to buy new garbage
cans. So I'm going to buy the garbage
cans that have wheels, that have the
bins attached. So if we were to go to,
you know, telling homeowners you're
allowed two cans of that size,
um
I think that would be
Only two cans is
>> Yeah, but we're talking one one trash.
Um
but I do agree I'm not a fan of the cost
of having to purchase bins for
everybody.
And also one of the worries was as soon
as we start allocating bins, this is not
my thought, this is Mr. Mr. Lunn's and
also Mr. Toro's, we are now required to
replace them in X amount of years. So
this cost does not go away and
conceivably gets bigger as we
continue to embrace this. So
again, I think the the approach of
leaning into homeowners, saying, "Hey,
if you have a resource, you can use it
if it's acceptable and if it meets the
conditions." Um
there was also the consideration of
having the pickups be associated with
white goods. And I think the worry was
the volume could be too big and then you
were then worrying about overtime.
If If you do with the white goods again,
you have to look at putting a limit on
the bulk items because if there's no
limit,
you don't know what you're going to get.
And And we know right now that, you
know,
it is an issue. People bring stuff in
from outside and they they put it at a
friend's or relatives'
for bulk removal because it's free.
So you you have to somehow
limit it so it can't be done like that.
By putting a, you know, a limit of one
bulk item, two bulk items per month,
you're not going to go to a house with,
you know, six mattresses, a a dresser,
you know, that came from three houses
that somebody was paying at somewhere
else. We run into that.
Um this is why we started the sticker
program to try and eliminate it. And
I feel it did um because people, no
matter what happened, if they brought it
into the city, somebody had to put the
sticker on it. Whether it was your
family, whether it was a relative, it
wasn't going to be picked up for free
anymore.
And if we do bags and we don't do cans
or bins,
when we get to a house that has bags,
how many bags are we going to take?
If we say what fits in a 50 gallon can,
fits in 50 gallon can. That's all we
take.
If we say six bags and you go and
there's eight bags,
we're going to send a code officer or
nuisance officer to the site and we're
going to pick it up.
Where does it end?
All right, I had nine bags instead of
eight. We took eight last week. We don't want to take the ninth this
week.
If you have them measured them out,
one can. And if And if it's the
council's choice and you want them to
have residents at Home Depot,
Lowe's, wherever. You say you buy a 45
or 50-gallon can, buy it yourself. And
that's what we take. We're not going to
take loose trash bags or anything else
anymore like that. It's got to be in a
can, and that's what we're going to
take. And you're going to have be
charged for
that size can. And if you want to, you
can be start charging for two cans. If
you want three cans, you can charge for
three cans because we're paying for
that. Paying through time, paying
through the tip fees.
Mr. Just to follow up on white goods and
bulk, would we be combining white goods
with bulk so you would get one or would
you still separate?
I prefer not because white goods is
different than than bulk. We have a
metal truck that takes the white goods,
which is typically washers and dryers
and air conditioners. That's separate.
It can't be disposed of with
bulk items like mattresses, couches,
chairs, ottomans, stuff like that. So,
you have to keep everything separate cuz
when you go to the tip floor, they're
not going to take it. You can't dump
white goods on the tip floor. That goes
somewhere else. So, and then TVs is
another truck we have. We have a TV
truck out every day. It's TVs are
separate. You can't mix electronics with
any other waste.
So, there's a fleet of trucks taking
separate material on a daily basis.
Thank you. Um
So, one of my last comments was um
wanting to make sure we don't move away
too far from wanting to make sure that
we address the jackpot issues. And the
picture that we saw uh last session was
indicative of someone just dumping their
whole house that they recently
purchased. And wanting to know if there
is something we can put in place to make
it a requirement, a mandate to purchase
a dumpster moving forward. So, I think
those are one of the issues we're trying
to curb. I know that's an option on the
city website, but I don't know if it's a
requirement.
It's not a requirement.
Council has to make a decision on that.
So, I think once we get to the like
recommendation stage, which I think
we're getting closer to, I think that
should be a requirement.
Mr. Engler. Uh I think that's something
that we should probably address sooner
rather than later just because with
the um suspension of the sticker program
not coming up fast, but as we're
approaching that deadline, I think
that's something that we should identify
first. So, I think we should identify
what we consider a jackpot. If it's a
cubic foot, if it's two cubic feet,
three cubic feet, whatever we decide it
is, or if it's a mattress, two that,
whatever.
Um just so that the guys in general
services know what to pick up and what
not to cuz I think we all agree that the
picture we saw last committee meeting
was excessive. And we should not be
asking our our gentlemen to pick up that
much garbage. Mr. Engler, you can't
leave it out on the street because then
we have to go back another day to get
it. And that just takes more time
because now we're sending trucks
you know, what we should have picked up
today at the curb out tomorrow to go
backwards. So, we don't you know,
and I said it 100 times, it's the one
service we have to do every day. It has
to get done every day because it just
blocks us down.
You know, garbage can't be left on the
street.
Um
so, usually the guys go through. If it's
a jackpot, they're taking it. We used to
try and cite everybody, take a picture
of it, give it to nuisance, send out a
violation, but we have to pick it up or
we're going back tomorrow. So, we're
sending an extra truck going backwards
through a district we already went
through yesterday.
Again, if you have a specific number of
cans and specific number of items on a
monthly basis,
there shouldn't be jackpots other than a
land landlord is paying for the premium
rate.
Mr. Truss.
Uh so, I think within the spirit of
that, I think as we kind of purpose for
what the budget will potentially look
like moving forward, I know for me, uh
we have newer council members, part of
my hesitation was just a lack of
confidence in our current system. I can
tell you uh I'm leaning more towards
that consideration for a tiered
approach. Um
what I can do, if you're in agreement
Mr. Engler, cuz we're the only people on
the committee, is can draft up a summary
email
um and then I can forward that to you
and the mayor. And if you're able to
build like a price um
a uh like a price recommendation for
both those tiers, also with the ability
to prorate a second trash can. Um
the question I'm also asking though is
what is the true trick What is the true
cost of our waste collection in the
city? And I think we can identify these
two tier approaches,
what is the difference? Is that a number
that you can tell us Oh, I think we
presented that for the '26 budget. We
gave you a full breakdown. We moved the
appropriate seasonals that were in a
different fund over to waste. So, we can
pull that up um
from last year because those those costs
were given to you
um as part of the budget. And we're
going to know that those costs will
slightly change because we're currently
in negotiations with the union that
picks up all the trash. So, they're
still being paid the 25 rate. And those
contract negotiations are currently in
the process. So, that will change
depending on
negotiations. Great. So, in essence,
it'd be new numbers because we didn't
consider the tiered approach. We have
new council members that weren't part of
those discussions. And that balance
would be different. Right?
>> Well, the tier The costs are going to be
the same. How you want to allocate the
revenue would be different. Right. So,
it'd be different numbers. So, we just
need to see those new numbers.
I can give you the new numbers and the
costs and we can allocate what the
revenues would change. Correct? Based on
the tier recommendation. If you're in
agreement with that. Mr. Engler. Yeah, I
think that um getting those numbers back
to us
would be a great step in the right
direction. But I also I just want to
stress the fact that once the moratorium
or the suspension of the sticker program
ends in June,
we're going to go back to picking up
everything on the curb. So, I think that
we definitely need to consider
what we're going to do with bulk items
cuz I know we keep talking about next
year and how we're going to address it
in the next year.
And but what are we going to do from
June to December is my concern Well,
unless you change the city charter.
We're not going to pick everything up on
Yeah, that's my question is are we going
to do something for those 6 months?
Again, I'm only one vote.
Um so, I think we definitely need to
talk about that before we start talking
about next year because that's the first
thing our guys are going to be dealing
with on a day-to-day.
So, I like the two bulk pick up per
site. I think that reads clearly for the
staff to understand
what is within their ability to pick up.
And they have to pick up it regardless.
So, I think it makes it clear how to
kind of assess fees. Please correct me
if I'm wrong on that. Um
and then it's also easier for the
community to recognize. I think one of
the stipulations with the sticker
program was it had too many numbers, it
had too many labels, and you couldn't
easily rip it off when you were talking
to someone about it. It was let me take
out this dictionary and figure out
what item you're you're since you
haven't paid for it. So, I think if we
clean it up, give them one number, I
think that makes it more feasible to
manage. And then that is something that
I would be prepared to vote on once we
had numbers.
Yeah, I agree.
Great. Mr. Thank you. Um so, I I um I
like the fact of um
when you have a jackpot or more than
your two items or money cleaning the
house out after someone left,
um you know, you call for a pick up.
Whether we send the you know, we have a
set rate. Again, what's a jackpot?
Right now, it's going to be two more
than two items.
It'd be more than two items and we can't weigh anything anymore. Can
we weigh anything? No. It gets weighed
when the truck goes across the tip
floor. But like the 3 by 3 by 3 is one
cubic something or a couch or whatever.
But can you get a a curb amount just by
what's on the curb?
Nobody builds it as a cube.
>> [laughter]
>> It's not a cubic cube. Not going to
build your garbage pile in cubic feet.
Well, I I look at the curb like this by this.
Um so, I'm wondering, you know, we have
to have a I think a
set of set price or we provide them with
a dumpster at a certain amount at a
certain cost. I I you know, Well, what
and
like I tried to say is
the people who have, you know,
apartments, the people who are moving in
and out of more frequently, that, you
know,
they may be the ones that are generating
more than a jackpot. They have the
tiered approach. And you pay the premium
service rate. If you want us to take it,
whatever number it is, at $600 a year,
we're going to take it. Okay?
We know that. Okay? Um
Who will the higher end service Right.
And you know, if you if you have a
two-unit or you have a three-unit, you
that's what you pay for. You know?
And schedule of pick up order.
And the and the and the drivers and the staff would know if yeah, they
go by the house and
you know, it's allocated with a certain
color can. We know this is the they're
paying in a day. It's paperwork.
Um and then lastly beyond that, I know
as we talk about uh
ways of incorporating new initiatives in
the city, I really think composting is
an area for consideration. Uh there's a
company that is doing it and has
partnered with Solar Elementary and has
a uh receptacle at the fair uh farm
urban farm.
Um
if the council is open to that, I'd like
to schedule a presentation.
Um I think that is a low threshold
[snorts] cost for one of these devices.
It costs about $20,000. They would allow
them to expand their scope to another
elementary school and potentially a
couple hundred households in the city,
100 additional households. And I think
as we look at the cost of waste
increasing, I think if we reduce the
waste that our city generates, we can
not only make a huge environmental
impact just for future generations, if
not today, um but really get out some
fiscal savings as well. So,
Mr. Truss.
So, as I'm just saying, one of the
aspects of it, I think that's a that's
the thing you do. Saving is also putting
money back in your pocket right across
the board. It's like making more Mr.
Fund. And just as I'm sitting here and
listening, and I keep going back to the
one point you said that this is
something we're going to cans So, I'm
sitting here thinking that you talked
about the place you can
Yeah, no, I just want to make sure I'm
clear. Now, I'm not talking about
composting. I'm talking about the can
part of it. I composted once.
You know, I I heard you say that this is
something we're going to have to revisit
when we talk about replacing it and then
as you're gathering numbers, is there
any chance you can just give me an I
know it's not going to be precise in any
way, but I've asked before just an
estimation of what it's going to be
going forward, right? You can't control
costs, but give me an idea of what it is
because if we're talking about replacing
cans, this is now going to be a budget
line item over and over again go by 2030
2031. We're now we have to build in
replacing $5 million worth of cans
inside of the budget. Right? As you're
I'm using a very over the Yeah, number
at the moment, but cuz you'll have to
place them all at once. You can build
them out of time, whatever you need to
do, but is there any way that you can
kind of get us those ideal numbers of
what that would look like down the road?
Replacement cans come off every
What is your What would be your
recommendation over replacing the can?
Right, I'm going to I mean some of the
cans we use right now that are broke,
cracked, and with holes in them. Our
people use them too, but To what extent?
Um what would you say the recommended
would be the replacement time frame? I'm
going to rely on expertise with it. I
also could implement that the you know,
the residents have to purchase their own
cans. It's like they do We have
commercial customers water meters. We
They're the responsible
responsibility of the of the of the
property owner to maintain those meters
in good working condition. If they
freeze or they break, they have to
replace them, but you know, again, I can
give you the numbers. Yeah, no, I'm just
so because as I was saying so I'm just
cuz I want to make sure I understand
especially when we're talking about
changing the code and all these little
things.
Um if we're going to do it, if we're
going to replace it, if we break it,
that same concept, right? I'm just
trying to think of like what that's
going to look like. We need stock. We
need all the things you said. So I'm
just thinking of numbers out loud and I wanted to ask you while you're
here if that's something you could
provide. Yeah, we can do an estimate of
how many we think we need on hand and
how many we would be we would replace
and
you know, a manufacturer one normal use
would probably be able to give us a
you know, age from before replacement.
Thank you.
Yes, ma'am.
These wide variants in the cans from you
just get a standard can you're picking
up in up at Lowe's or Home Depot or
whatever or you can have ones that have
an RFID chip put in it
or you can have it coded with a barcode
so that you know that it's coming from
your house or my house which adds to the
management tools that we have. But
again, that increases the cost. Some of
these things are integrated
in [clears throat] with the technology
that's being deployed with
CTG
where again,
using the artificial technology AI they
would uh
artificial intelligence be able to take
what looks like a random pile of
debris at the curb and say that yes,
that is
2.7 cubic feet or it's 4.2 cubic feet.
If they say that they can do that with a
fairly high degree of accuracy over time
and that's why they're collecting the
data now and going forward we'll be able
to narrow that down and again better
manage
relative to both sides to the
customer putting uh
something to the curb or what we're
collecting and what we're charging.
I'm a big big fan of having data. I
appreciate the cap of the presentation
that you brought in earlier today as
well. So I mean, I would love to see it
all come together and work perfectly. Um
I I also
I hope that it all works out as supposed
to, but hope is not a plan. So that's
why I asked the question I asked, but I
appreciate you, Mr. Mayor.
Um I think along that line similar to
the like New York City license plates,
it wasn't something that went into
effect overnight. There was a
transitional period. So I think if
there's a preferred can for the city, as
long as you get that information to the
residents and that's the tier you are
recommending to go with, if we continue
with that,
I think just giving people more
information options is how we meet the
varying needs of how people want to put
out waste in this city and this country.
Mr. O'Brien. Yeah,
and members of the council, just
following up on on your thoughts and and
the mayor's comments.
The the ordinance which you extended it
the suspension uh
wasn't signed by the mayor, but the
effective date of that was March 20th.
So 90 days from that is June 14th.
So with committee cycles etc., what I'm
I would recommend that
uh Mr. LaFont is going to give you some
more information next time and that you
at that next meeting
you
give directions to Mr. LaFont and and
then Mr. LaFont and our office the
corporation counsel will have to go look
at the code
to get that where you want to put it
into the code to make it effective.
And then the best way would be to bring
that draft ordinance back to you so you
see it
and then you can tweak it and then call
for a public hearing 2 weeks after that
and then that would
give you the time that you need
for us to draft it, to you review it, to
have the public hearing, and to make any
post public hearing
amendments to the proposed ordinance
that to get you to that June 14th date.
So I think your next meeting you
have to you know, vote on some di-
vote on a direction so then we can start
drafting legislation. I do some work.
>> [laughter]
>> Um but I can't speak for Mr. Anger, but
I think the spirit of this conversation
how it's been going,
I I'm very well prepared to make a
determination once we have the financial
considerations as well. I feel really
good with how this conversation has
continued with all of our conversations.
So definitely looking forward to seeing
what this looks like on paper with
finances and your
wisdom, sir. Mr. Mayor.
And the widely variant item
that's still out there is we collected
the 20-some thousand dollars in revenue
from the sticker program
on its initial deployment.
Jeff,
everybody's talking about that figure,
but we printed over 300,000 dollars
worth of free stickers.
So there's really no way to adequately
say we only
generated 20-some thousand dollars in
revenue. If we hadn't put out 300,000
dollars in free stickers, there might
have been a much more significant uh
revenue source in there. And so it's
hard to put a value on that. If we go
back to some form of sticker program or
some type of can program,
uh
again, there's there is revenue there
uh and it's just how do you approach it
in how do you do it in a manner that's
fair and gets broad-based buy-in from
the people in the city.
Uh now are you with that $300,000, was
that the projected cost of people using
those resources or
>> that's what we printed stickers, we
mailed them out. You know, people got
free stickers. So that was the value of
all those. Some of them of course were
probably thrown out in the garbage.
Other ones ended up on
items and were picked up for free where
they didn't have to buy them.
Um I would definitely say the
implementation of programs is definitely
a consideration that always has to be
taken to account moving forward.
Um but I sincerely hope that I think
this is the best step moving forward for
our city. I think if you just look at it
based on just the consideration for
workers compensation claims, I know
you're talking about the time, but I
also heard the time of them hustling. So
I think if we slow down and we're more
considerate and if they have items
bundled together better, I think that
protects us medically and also ensures
that our city looks the way that I feel
that it is which is pristine on the
rise.
Um
so if there are any further questions or
concerns, I'll summarize this to ensure
that it captures the spirit of this
conversation. The expectation will be
that you and OGS are able to provide us
the cost breakdown for the two-tier
approach.
Um and then I'll include the question
about the replacement cans and how
often. Uh if I missed anything else,
please let me know, but definitely
getting very excited with how this
conversation continues to unfold.
Thank you, Mr. LaFont.
And then due to the nature in which we
talked, I think we kind of lumped it
lump lumped in bulk trash sticker
program also.
Um
so I think
the remaining 1 2 3 4 5 items
number 13 through 17 will be discussed
in executive session. There was a
component in the request for redemption
that I'd like for us to discuss the fees
associated with
um
the putting the funds back
to houses. Is that correct?
Um yeah, it's on the agenda, but I um
I'll meet you upstairs to get
my sheet. I'll have to discuss that.
Okay.
Um
in the meantime, I'd like to get that
There was another item I was going to
add. Uh so I can buy you some time and
I'll
stretch. So you want to just so I'm
clear so I know what I'm grabbing,
you're talking about the spreadsheet?
Yes, ma'am. That I gave you? Okay, good.
Perfect.
Uh in the meantime, there was an item I
wanted to add on for discussion. That's
the reappointment of the Board of
Assessment Review member.
Um previously this was brought up and
expectation was either to reappoint the
individual currently in place or provide
a recommendation. I think to this point
we haven't supplied any names for so the
recommendation is to
reappoint Richard Jaeger
for another just term.
We'll do it. What committee is it for?
Uh the Board of Assessment Review. Wait,
what's under city planning?
Um this is the one I'm asking.
Uh so if there's no discussion or
comment, I know Mr. Anger just brought
that up. I'll bring it back.
I need to base you.
» Mr. Anger, it's the second. Yeah. Okay,
we're waiting on the second.
I make a motion.
What's What is the current term of this?
I think it's 2 years. Is it Is it a
2-year term for
Barsh? Yeah.
I think I'm not sure of the law. Okay.
Turn off the
Just to confirm, do we have any terms?
How many What is the length of the term?
What's the length of the term for Barsh?
I don't know the length of the term.
Feel like 2 is the default. I would say
3 years, but I'm not
sure of
Can we just say make a motion? Chairman,
we'll we'll in the resolution we'll have
the
to the appointment. We'll put the term
in the resolution for the time period,
so everyone's on the same page. This is
a new term and not a filling of a
vacant seat.
Uh so, right now one of the items I was
going to add is us to reappoint Richard
Jaeger to the Board of Assessment and
Review.
If there's no issues or concerns, may I
have a motion?
>> Yep. I'll second. All those in favor?
Aye. Aye. And then we're just
uh waiting for Ms. Barsh to return.
So, for our last item
Now, so we can
Could I
do the local 28
Uh
do we need to be in executive session
for that?
Uh
well, okay. If you have any questions.
Yeah, I think I think
I would recommend that you know, if
there's a
questions or whatnot, there's any
further discussion internally. Okay.
I'm over here.
Thanks.
I'm not sure what the deal is, but
So, we
special motion.
And once we confirm with Sigma Plotkin
whether they have a person to just sign
it over.
You didn't fix the sheet. What is this?
Can you say?
This is supposed to be brought
Do you have a prediction for tonight's
game?
10 to 5.
Let's see.
They're playing playing
in the NCAA.
Either or. I'm feeling like it's busy.
What does that mean? You're not going to
rank it.
But you
Like all I'm doing is cheating on cuz
anybody else is doing
But no, I don't want to cheat.
I am not
I'm serious.
You got to
do the whole
I teach a boy to
cuz I
I'm not going to
I think I know what's going I'm not
going to
We have a
Me too.
That's it. You got
to have a picture of the
I'm sorry.
It's okay.
20
Like CPRB is 2-year old.
2 years?
Yeah, I don't see any other way to do
it.
The bar
I'm not going to
choose a bar.
I'm going to say
» [clears throat]
» Thank you.
Can I drop it?
I think you can take that back. No.
I was in the packet. Oh, I didn't know.
Is this a packet? It is a packet. Yeah.
just in the interest of time I
just printed a few. If you could just um
who's going to take one sheet and pass
it around. Oh, no, no.
Okay, now one second.
Um
Yeah, can you pass one down and then
You have it all, right?
Uh
No. Oh, I thought you had it. Okay, if
you guys could just share.
Thank you.
This is something that you sent me
digitally, correct? Yeah, I just printed
a few, but I in the interest of time
didn't print any.
I pulled them out. Uh so, thank you, Ms.
Barsh, for joining us first. Would you
mind just kind of speaking to the spirit
in which we have to consider this and
then not go through every line, but just
kind of summarize what this represents?
Um so, it represents,
as it's written at the top, the cost
estimate considerations for foreclosing
on a property
and returning it to the former owners.
It goes through estimated costs from
uh law,
from codes, OGS,
receipts, assessors, mayor, clerk,
council, and explains all the different
estimations of time and costs that go
into
uh when the city forecloses on a
property and then the city council
chooses to sell a property back
to the former owner. Uh this is
the estimate of what I could come up
with for the cost.
And then uh was there a singular number
or how I know you said per hour, so how
does that taken into account?
I mean, it's it's up to the council to
determine what you want the final number
to be.
Uh I put here
information for you to review. So,
estimates of attorney time, of the cost
of police, um
considerations of what the council and
the clerk spend in terms of time.
I don't have an exact number. You can
see from that these are estimations.
Every case is different. Like if they
don't have fire alarms or CO2 alarms,
it's going to depend on how many rooms
are in the house, how many we have to
install. Um
Many times, unfortunately, they don't
have these alarms.
Um
so, I put an estimate of for for each if
there's there's basement, bedrooms, um
code enforcement should go out. Uh
police and fire sometimes accompany
them.
As you can see, the law department does
a tremendous amount of work um in
foreclosing and then a tremendous amount
of work in having to return it.
Um as does receipts,
uh our receipts department, um and then
other departments
uh put in time as well, so it it adds
up.
That's true. So, I know that we had put
a number on it before in our one
committee meeting. Um $5,250 is what we
had generally said.
>> That was an estimation. I was very clear
on that.
>> I 100% I'm not holding you to a final
number. Okay, thank you. Yeah. I'm going
to get to the final point of the
question. Okay. So, I didn't mean to
interrupt cuz we were in closed before,
but I just wanted to make sure everyone
was aware of what we had said. Um
So, looking at this, I understand that
you broke it down for hourly. Is there
any way that you can give us an average
rate between the two? Say, as any would
as you would for foreclosure, right?
Yes. This is we're going to foreclose,
it could cost you 3,500
and Once you talk to somebody who's had
to go through the process, is there a
way that you And I appreciate this
information greatly. I want to make it
on record and saying that. Appreciate
you putting this together.
Um is there any way we can get an idea
so when people are going through this
process, hopefully they never have to,
right? Hopefully they can they don't
fall on hard times, life doesn't get
bad. We don't have a crazy tear from out
of situation that's robbing people of
everything and dignity in their
household. But since we connected we're
fighting for them, we're protecting for
them. And I want to make sure that they
have the opportunity if they can find
that money, right? We had a gentleman
whose community rallied behind him. Good
citizen, has a court order, all the
things. And they rallied behind him
helping him raise that money. I just
want to make sure that people have the
opportunity to know exactly what they're
trying to raise or have an idea of that
light is killing right now. Have an idea
of of what they would have to get so
they have the opportunity to to get that
property back, right? Cuz as I know just
being a resident of the city as I've
been said my entire life,
household income can be the make or
break of an entire family, right? A
matriarch or grandmother who fell on
hard times and situation Mr. Toro had
brought up and and in the situation that
we had gotten went forward, the older
woman her son came, had no idea what was
happening, and had all the money
instantly, right? To to purchase back instantly as in that that
night but got it to you in a regular
time that you needed. So I want to make
sure that if we can possibly if it's a
that we have that listed so people know
what that could entail and cost wise on
top of getting their taxes.
Do you mean in each particular case or
do you mean
>> I I understand each case is unique, but
from your sheet just an idea of an
average of what it would cost for us to
go through the legal process of going
back, right? Same thing that we just do
if you have to install the three alarms.
We have this is the average what it
looks like so they can have a total idea
and there's going to be more, right?
You've broken it down for them they know
and their house that they got six alarms
and they need all six replaced cuz the
house is a mansion whatever it may be,
then they know it's going to be
different. But just an idea of an
average cost or whereabouts, right? Just
like you gave me an estimate of 5200
even though that's not We know that's
not the final number. If there's an idea
it won't exceed
$25,000 to buy your house back when you
owe $400 in taxes, right? Like that's
that sounds crazy to me.
So
all the information that I can provide
is here. I reached out to
every department that's
affected by these cases.
Um so I
I'm a lawyer not a finance person.
>> So
And this is this is what they could look
at.
>> on you, let me be clear. I'm looking at
just trying to make it simplified for
people, right? As we just talked about
like the sticker program of $300,000 and
all the big like there's there's a
85-year-old woman who is going to
struggle maybe going through all this if
she doesn't have assistance, right? And
the community's trying to help her.
Hopefully she can find someone or a
young man or a grandson or whatever that
can help her. I was just asking for if
there was a more simple I'm reading this
perfectly fine. I track with you, I do
the legal side, I understand it. I was
just saying if there was a way that we
can have this a simplified version of
this is what it could entail. That's all
I was asking. And I'm not putting that
solely on you cuz I know that doesn't
fall directly on you either.
Just saying if you have cuz I know
you've done the legwork if that was a
way that you could possibly just give me
a roundabout. That was all. Sure. Um
it's
I can't provide anything further beyond
this. I've
put down all the numbers and estimations
I can think of. The council is welcome
to
do the math and add them up and talk to
the clerk and and and account for the
council's time and
get if you want further information from
other departments you're welcome to uh
This I spent a lot of time doing this
and I I don't have anything further to
add. It's it's all here.
And uh
I don't have anything further. This is
very much appreciated. Thank you for
putting it together. Thank you. But I'll
just say as a point of clarity meaning
to your previous point about
not a mathematician, the council's not
timekeepers. So without having an
understanding of how many hours each
department contributed to this,
that is just a lot of numbers. And I
know you said that you put a lot of work
into this. I don't want to minimize that
in any way, shape or form, but truly I
think we need one number. If we
recognize that that is not possible, I
think having two tiers, one of there's
an excessive amount of work that we're
going to have to undo and redo, or
here's a low threshold cost that we'll
consider for a flight this amount. And I think if you can
confidently say if this is ever
challenged legally, I can justify those
two numbers either way based on that
breakdown. I can say as a council member
that is what I was expecting. Um but to
say
um
here's what the hourly expectations for
each office are
without the number of hours
we would be guessing.
>> But there everything Respectfully, Mr.
President, it's all right here. The the
hours are here, the amount of
the estimated hourly rate is there. I I
don't have anything further. I I have
I don't keep track of every single
minute
for every single property.
Absolutely.
>> It's not necessary
and I don't do that. And I am
I'm I'm not hired to
do financial stuff. This is the best
that I can give to you.
I'm a lawyer. I put together every legal
literally every single legal issue that
I could think of and there's probably
more.
This is
I reached out to every department. You
can see all the emails. If they didn't
respond, I came up with I I sat there
and tried to figure out what an hourly
rate would be. This has been a
tremendous amount of work.
And no, I don't have two different tiers
of numbers.
This is what you can get from the law
department. You're welcome to do with it
as you like. You're also welcome to
reach out to other departments if you'd
like. This is what I'm providing in
reply to your original question.
Interesting. So I appreciate that
statement and what you're saying
and breaking this all down
very nicely for us.
How often or how how I'll change my line
of questioning. You've done the buyback
process, correct? You've done the
paperwork yourself.
Um on a basic house, how long have does
it take you to do the legal paperwork
per per case? And overestimate, give me an extra hour, give yourself
like days, takes you 4 days to do the
paperwork.
Okay.
I'm just asking. I'm asking for
>> but it's it's right here. No, no, I'm
not asking this. I'm just asking for a
point. How long does it normally take
for as a lawyer to to do it? I don't
know. I'm asking for
>> But it's on it's on the sheet. That's
what I'm trying to say. I
Okay, we'll go through the sheet. I
think that might be might be better.
So when we do the foreclosure, I think
that's going to be the only way to go
through these numbers.
>> you don't have to go through line by
line. I'm I feel like you feel like I'm
not coming after you. I'm
>> No, and I I recognize that but I'm I'm
you're asking a question that
the answers are here. These are these
are my answers. So won't supersede this
bottom line number of the two hours like
the breakdown of what you're saying
on the sheet. This is this is I put this
together specifically in reply to the
question of what is what amount of
resources goes into Right. So then I
guess I'm confused. So if it's right
here then why would it be so hard to get
us a simplified number if you broke it
>> Because I'm not a mathematician.
I don't feel
>> Okay, the foreclosure I'm not asking you
to be a mathematician to if you have it
broken down per hours. And I I was a
teacher before this so I don't you know,
forgive me.
But if you have it broken down and
you're saying this is the hourly rate,
it takes you two hours to do this item, and I'm just asking for a
base figure. I don't I don't feel like
I'm asking to be a mathematician and I
apologize if that's how it comes off. I
was just saying to start this the
original question was was there just a
basic simple number that we could start
with so people would understand and then
a top figure. I wasn't asking for two
tiers, I wasn't asking for anything over
the top. And I I like once again, not
coming after you. I appreciate what it I
look at numbers all day long. So I I
understand this for myself. I was just
asking if there was amount of time that
a lawyer, even if it's not you, someone
first year coming out, right? Fresh out
of law school, if they were to sit down
and do this
you were assigned a new case. The mayor
just hired this wonderful young lawyer
out of law school. Awesome. It's going
to take him six out her or him six
hours. That was all I was asking for a
number. If you feel you can't get that
number, that's okay. I I understand your
point. I just you just confused me when
you said the other statements you made
after that. I was good until you were
like I'm not a mathematician and every I
felt like I had asked something
completely weird. Okay, so we can go
through
it and then you can add the numbers up.
So it has to be
We start with the foreclosure.
We found this number by dividing.
We have like a running amount of what
the cost is.
And then we have to also account for
some of the other staffs and we
estimated it at $1,700
to foreclose. So you can take that as
your first number.
And then what you need to do is you're
going to need to take fire alarms and
CO2 alarms. Not every house needs them
and sometimes they need different
numbers.
So if you assume that each house needs
four of each,
50 * 4 is 200 * 2 is 400. So 1,700
+ 400.
Then paralegal time for preparing and
filing an ejection application for the
sheriff. That's 1 hour at the paralegal
time of $82 per hour. However, many
times the paralegal works on overtime to
do the foreclosure matters. So if she's
doing it on overtime it's time and a
half plus
the value of the benefits.
Attorney fielding emails and calls with
the former owner, their attorney and or
council members, 1 hour. I estimated
attorney time at $140 an hour.
So it's $149.
Attorney preparing and transmitting
legislative requests, 1 hour. Again,
attorney time $140 an hour. Paralegal
emailing the sheriff and updating
records for ejections, you have to add
in 0.75 times paralegal time. And again,
many times she works on overtime so that
$82 an hour may be closer to 100.
Attorney preparing for pres-
presenting legislative requests and
fielding related questions from council
members, half hour at $140 an hour.
Attorney doing research,
half hour at $140 an hour. Attorney
drafting resolution, half hour at $140
an hour.
We skipped over the inspection costs.
Um so I'm going to go back up here. I
estimated that it would be 2 hours per
inspection. I've never been on an
inspection.
Um I think that that's the amount of
time it would take.
Um and then you have to take fire at 2
hours * $51 an hour.
That was the number given to me as an
average by
uh Chief Burns. Codes,
2 hours *
So codes and OGS,
if you look there's an email attached
from um Deputy Commissioner Lund.
He put a lot of effort into breaking
down the costs that you'll you'll see.
Um and I took the number from there,
$978.51
as a flat fee
uh because that's how he provided the
information. So that has to be accounted
for and you can look at what the
specifics are from his email. So it's
not that it's not that simple to be able
to say, "Well, here's your perfect
number." is what I'm trying to show you.
have to do all of these
calculations.
Um
And again, it's it winds up being an
average. So we can go further down. Um
>> But again, I don't think we need to. I
sincerely I think the spirit in which we
recently had the conversation it was the
number that the council was assessing in
fees didn't adequately represent the
amount of work that it takes to re-give
these properties back. Would you agree
to that?
the number didn't adequately
represent? Is that what you're asking
me? No, not not that number. Previously,
I'm trying to draw a map of how we got
here. So you're saying our $1,500 that
we assessed was not adequately
reflecting the work your department was
doing previously.
>> Right, it's obviously not reflective of
it because just to do the foreclosure
we're estimating $1,700 and that doesn't
even
That isn't doesn't even start the return
process.
>> understand that. So we're still on the
same page. I would say recently we've
had a discuss a discussion of what does
that figure actually accurately reflect?
And then we identified $5,250.
It wasn't until your department came
back and said, "I will not be able to
legally support this if challenged."
That is why we're here. So this was a
question posed by your department so to
the same conversation. I need to say
this publicly for the fact that it could
be misinterpreted. We are all here to do
a job and if the job requires more,
that is what we're here to do, to do a
good service and to ensure that we're
being responsive to the needs of the
community. That is the expectation
around this table. And if we acknowledge
that, we can't accept anything less than
that. And I think a basic conversation
is I don't understand what is being
outlined because there's a lot of
numbers. That comes from a spirit of
genuine genuineness. But if it is met
with resistance, we're not going to be
able to put forth a good recommendation
and you're not going to be able to
legally support it if challenged.
>> Mr. President, I never said I could
legally support the number. That was not
at all what I said. I said it didn't
adequately reflect the amount of time
and the amount of cost. And I have now
provided it to I am an attorney. I am
not an accountant. I have gone and put
together as much as I can for you. I
have a license to practice law. I do not
have a license to be an accountant, to
do anything in financials other than
manage my own. I would I would say if
you were actually putting these numbers
together, I'd be highly concerned. The
expectation from me would be that you
delegated and the number that you give
back to the council represents something
that you can confidently support as an
attorney representing the city. That is
my expectation. And to come back with
hourly rates with the expectation
that the council identifies this,
further contending that it is not your
role and expectation to do this, that
comes across very disingenuous to me.
It's not disingenuous. I'm not licensed
to do that. You can't ask me to go fight
a fire. I'm not I don't have any
training in that.
Do you want to ask the mayor to work on
it?
Mr.
>> If the council is to make a decision,
the numbers are there. So you got to go
over it. It's 5,000, it's 6,000, it's
4,000.
It's
Uh Mr. Torello, Mr. Chair.
>> I I agree. I mean the numbers are here.
It's up to us to decide from well, at
least to get a baseline of everything
that's been provided other than the fact
that the clerk and the council we've
never put any mock numbers together for
corporation council. Come up with those.
We should come up with
um I don't know. It just So but to your
question, not to cut you off. So for
this item that we're going to discuss in
executive session for 1333 6th Avenue,
you have that number.
Where?
I'm sorry. The request for redemption.
In this specific instance regarding that
chart,
were you able to calculate what that
number looks like based on the
information that you have?
>> First of all, we we need the clerk's
estimate of how much time you clerk puts
into it and how much time we're sitting
around here and what our time is worth
doing it as well. I mean these numbers
going line by line by line and every department's provided the
information. So now it's up to us to
decide what we're going to put our
baseline at well, our total because we
can't do a high and a low. It's every
foreclosure has to have this number on
it. So I'd say again to repeat my
question, you would be able to based on
the council's
uh
agreement to move forward with that, you
feel confident taking that chart and
coming back with a recommended number
based on the information?
>> Yes, taking the chart and coming back
with a recommended number. Absolutely.
>> confident in your abilities to do that
in this instance, for every instance?
Whatever number we come up with,
absolutely. We just threw that $5,000
out there. Um
originally,
it's definitely more obviously than
1,500 because the foreclosure alone is
1,700. I I'm sorry, I don't understand.
I think I think we could put a number
together with the with the facts that
were given.
So when we get into this item, I would
ask that you have that you would have a
number prepared for us. No,
But you're saying you can have that
number for us.
>> council we can work towards this number.
Mr. President, the
issue as I understand it is to come up
with a flat fee. Yes, so it's not going
to be exact for everything. If you want
to
back off and so we do the internal
accounting for every
properties
>> [clears throat]
>> interaction,
it dramatically increased our costs just
doing the accounting. What it is is to
come up with some fee that is
a fair
reflection of what [clears throat] the
time and effort is. And we've put forth
a series of numbers there where the
council and the council can stay with
the $1,500 fee if you want. You can go
$5,000.
Some of those are probably
the
higher end of it when you actually
put all the time and effort that goes
into it.
But it's the council has to make a
decision on what the number is.
And it's
on some properties
we might make a little bit of money on
it. Other ones we're going to lose a
little bit.
Uh Mr. Chair is then Mr. Inger do you
have any ways?
Same vote I I still want to thank Mr.
Inger. Uh Ms. Barash, I just want to say
thank you. Um I know that it's a
tireless job and I really appreciate all
the hard work you put in. Um
I sat and did the math just because I'm
a math guy. I have an accounting degree.
Thank goodness. So I
>> [laughter]
>> I did the 1 hour the 1 hour the 1 hour
times the rate and I came up with the
number that came up not including what
the council and the clerk did. It was
$5,653.51.
Um so if we want to assign a number
based on the city clerk and the the
council and come up with a per hour, I
can do the math for us and then give us
a number. Um but based on the
information that we were provided, I
just did the math so that I understood
where we were standing. So again, I
appreciate you.
>> Thank you.
So if there are any other questions or
comments, then I'd recommend that we
stay where we've been at the $5,250
based on the logic that I do not think
we should itemize the time of the
council nor the mayor.
Oh, the mayor is very valuable.
>> [laughter]
» So if there is no pushback to that and if corporation council and
understanding of that, then I would say
that that is our fee moving forward as a
council whenever we are
reviewing these types of instances.
I felt this way before.
Like your $5,250
figure that you estimated out when we
did the breakdown prior, I got a number
a little less than that. I know he's
added some things and other closing
costs or receipts to get to the 5,600
number. But I appreciate Mr. Inger
putting that together quickly as well.
And Ms. Barash, I want to thank you for
your time as I did earlier in the email.
I appreciate that this was done and that
you put this out. Once again, I want to
reiterate my question was not in a way
of coming after you in any way. It was a
simplicity to make sure other people and
residents of the city who don't have an
accounting degree or don't work inside
the city center or wherever we may work
can also understand this that may fall
on hard times. So I appreciate you
entertaining the council and our
questions.
>> Thank you. Uh Mr. Torello.
I'm just thinking if if you had these
numbers prior, I don't want to say why I put her on the
spot, but
you knew what the numbers were. You all
you had to do was add them. I mean, you
know, I'm just stating a fact. So
>> I I looked at the numbers. My question
of putting her on the If I excuse me.
Mr. Chair, if I may.
My question and reasoning was to look
for a more simplistic number once again.
It had nothing to do with my own
personal understanding of it, right? It
was to ask if we would have the ability
to get us a baseline. It was not a
coming after her, not a going anywhere
way. I may understand it, does not mean
that Sarah Mae Smith may understand it,
right? So, that's all I was That was the reasoning of asking her
questions. Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. But again, Sarah Mae Smith isn't
going to see this breakdown. We are. So,
we put this break She put this breakdown
together from all the departments. Here
it is, and we're going to come up with
in a month, which is 5600 or 5250.
So, what Sarah Mae Smith asked us that
number, excuse me.
I apologize.
It was cold until this weekend. I was
outside, so I'm trying not to get a cold
and lose my voice now. We have this
breakdown that you don't. You Are we
going Are each council member going to
individually go break this down for
Sarah Mae Smith? No. Oh, cuz that's what That was the reason for the
So, we have to come up with a Oh, we
did. And we did that at the last
committee. My My concern was making sure
that that number is available for people
to see it. And understanding that this
that why we are doing what we're doing
is based on these numbers. And we can
have this all listed out online. It can
be there for them, but it was making
sure that people understood how we got
to those numbers, especially when we're
doing what we do here as a council. May
I? Mr. Mayor, uh
I just have a legal question. Um
let's say we stick with the 5250. Do you
think that you could justify that in
court if it was ever challenged?
Based on this information. It would be
based on this and based on the emails
that are attached.
>> Okay. That is
the That is what I came up with as a
good faith effort. And your good faith
effort to add them up and make um a
final number based on that. I think that
would be defensible. It's not an
overcharge. Um it's about what it costs.
Mr. Mayor, well, let me
What you can do is set a fee.
Our cost could be $1,000,
and the council can set a fee of
$10,000, and that's what it is.
If you're setting if you're looking for
what the actual expenses are and we're
recovering
the actual amount, then it's variable.
But it's the prerogative of the council
to [clears throat] set a fee for this
process. So, you can say it's
$1,500, it's $5,000, it's $10,000. It
doesn't matter what our actual costs
are. You can make money on it.
Or you can lose money on it.
But I I I don't think we can make money,
but I think to Mr. Engert's point, it's
just ensuring that
Don't believe that's true. The council
has the prerogative. So, you know,
it's a parking fee. You can say
If I get a parking ticket out front, I
pay for my parking, it's fine.
You get
It's $10,000.
It's the council's prerogative to set
that fee that high. And people say, "Oh,
that's terrible."
But
to some of it, you In fact, you do want
to
probably make a little bit of money on
some and lose a little bit of money on
another ones. But I thought with the
foreclosures, we can only recoup the
administrative costs, and then anything
beyond that would be held in escrow for
that designated amount of time, which is
3 years. Is that correct? Um so
This is
This was taken in foreclosure, but then
the council is choosing to sell it back.
So
That law The new The law is relatively
new in the state of New York. So, not
everything has been tested yet, but
I don't believe that
those rules would apply
because
the council is literally selling it back
to the former owner. And as the mayor
said, it's the council's prerogative to
set the fee.
And the fee
can be whatever And that's what I said,
the council sets the number. So
No, the money does not need to be in
escrow to answer that question.
And I don't think that
charging a fee
in the amount of $5,250
um
I don't think that that would be a
um
I think that would be reasonable.
But what would happen in court, I can't
100% say. I mean, everything in when it
goes to court becomes a question. But I
think that this is a reasonable number
to go with. And um as the mayor said,
the council has the prerogative to set
the fee.
And the council is choosing to set it
based on the estimation.
But
I think it's taking the
previous recommendation, and now we're
able to support it. And that is what I
can say I feel more confident now moving
forward.
Um so, I think we
beat this topic to a pulp. Uh if there
are any other further questions or
comments, I know there's a part of it
that we need to discuss in executive
session.
Um
Do you have another question? Just lying
going back to the council, Mr. Barash,
is still Is your recommendation still
strong at the 55,250 for the fee? I know
we had charged nothing before, and that
was the process of the conversation of
what the city's loss was. Do we still
feel confident in that number as
corporation counsel? Mr. O'Brien can
freely answer as well, so it's not just
all on me. Mr. Barash, you should allow
me cuz we spent all this time on it.
Yes, yeah. Is it Does it come directly
back to us is what we're saying? No, I
don't I don't want to I'll I'll donate
my time. It's okay. Uh so
we're kind of rehashing what we just
went through uh respectfully.
This is what I'm providing to the
council.
Mr. Engert was kind enough to make some uh to make a calculation.
He came up with more than $5,250.
This doesn't even include the city
council's time
in all of this, including the time we're
spending here. It doesn't include the
clerk's time. So, I think in terms of a
reasonable estimation of what it costs,
I think that that is a reasonable
estimation. In terms of what fee the
council wants to set, it's truly up to
the council. If the council is okay with
losing with the city losing money and
setting it at $1,500 or $1,000, whatever
it was before, that's the council's
prerogative. If the council wants to set
it at $10,000,
I don't think that that's
um
not appro- not not allowed either. So
I think you're asking me if I support
the number. I think that that's a
reasonable number if the council wants
to adopt that number. I hope that
answers your question. It It has long
been a day.
>> [laughter]
>> Thank you. Great.
Um so, we're going to come back to this
item, all other remaining items in um
city development planning can be
discussed in executive session. Mr.
Mayor. On a completely different topic,
and and just as a footnote to
for for other other discussions, the
term uh assessment review is a 5-year
term. Oh, thank you. 5-year term um is
not a temporary member, a 5-year term.
Oh, the board. Okay. Yeah, the Board of
Assessment Review. There was a question.
And then going further back regarding
the schedule for the garbage collection
issue. So, with the next meeting uh that
will be committee meeting will be April
20th, at which time the committee the
council will come up with a framework in
which Mr. LaFontaine, the corporation
counsel's office, can then work from to
draft do a draft ordinance. Draft
ordinance could be presented to you all
on May 4th
of And then
um you can call for a public hearing uh
for uh May 26th.
And then the next uh council meeting
after that would be June 8th with a
committee meeting on June 1st. So, with
that cycle, you could make the June 14th
deadline.
So, that's the way ahead as far as the
cycles.
It just shows that we need to be very uh
conscientious of time cuz we don't have
any to spare. So, as long as we stay on
the timeline, we should be good.
Thank you for that breakdown.
And Mr. President, what exactly are we
discussing in executive session?
Relating to this?
Uh the request for the redemption for
item 18, the recommendation from Mr.
O'Brien was to discuss the union
contract in executive session pending
questions, and then the rest of property
sales.
Okay, so it's not relating to this
spreadsheet.
No. Okay. We had that back, and we
approved Well, we not We didn't need to
approve it. We just needed to publicly
discuss it.
Correct. There's no formal resolution
for that figure.
But we're not setting a We're setting a
fee. Do we have to No, no, you just This
is when you're It's what you're going to
consider when you're in these these
cases.
And that's the support that you have.
So, it's not a formal setting of a fee.
This is
It would If you're setting If they're
going to set a fee,
but it's going to be on It's not a
formal fee ordinances.
But should it be?
I think it should be, but it's up to the
council if they want to set a fee.
Um that makes it Then there would have
to be a public hearing and a
ordinance amendment. Right. So, if the
council would like to set it as a fee,
council has to go through the ordinance
process. If the council would like to to
use it as
uh something that is considered during
these cases, then it it doesn't need to
go through that.
I would say what I find with these
instances, they're so unique and there's
so many considerations, I think it
protects us and gives us boundaries to
function within. There's nothing to say
that we can't choose to lower that
threshold, but I think what we recognize
is that that is the ceiling. Um and
because there's so much variability, I
think if we can accept and acknowledge
this as a group based on my
conversation, this is what the number
should reflect. I think rather than kind
of tying us into the city code where if
we need to make any slight adjustment,
it requires just so much legislative
paperwork, we just accept this moving
forward without any formal.
If that makes sense.
Mr. Engert. I would respectfully
disagree. I don't think it 5250 is a
ceiling. I think that that would be the
minimum just based on the numbers that
we were provided. So, I think that
making it an ordinance and letting it go
to a public hearing lets new members of
the public at least
come out and voice their opinion and
then that holds us to it because I would
hate for us to say, you know, it's 5250
today and then in a few weeks it's a
different number and then in a few weeks
it's a different number. How is that
fair to
somebody that goes through the
redemption process today or somebody
that goes through the redemption process
in a few weeks. I wouldn't say that it
is something we have to do, but I would
say because the nature of the council
can change year to year, that will
require just so much additional
legislative just movement. I'm not
shifting from anyway from that number.
I'm just saying it allows us to have
wiggle room should we choose to. And the
one thing to recognize with these
properties is taxes are the one
expectation yearly. We're considering
this because there's unique
circumstances. So, I think if we can
agree as a collective to that number, I
think we hold ourselves to that. We have
this discussion transparently in front
of the community so they recognize and
we can if requested provide this
breakdown to anyone that was questioning
it. But I think to go along the process
of the city code, my recommendation is
not to, but we have two other members
that would like to weigh in.
Okay.
Mr. Mayor. I I I you know, what we've
been through with um with uh people wanting to buy their
properties back
um and
different sets of circumstances for
each, I don't think we should I think
the the the fee should be set at the
minimum of 5250 with a resolution and
that way there we don't even have to
worry about dickering um as a council
and taking in again um
you know, doctor's notes and things like
that. It's my personal opinion.
Mr. Chair,
once again I'm going to be honest. This
is the second time this first time we
discussed it publicly, but we discussed
it in committee prior. I'm fine with the
number $5,025
>> that was recommended estimatedly
recommended by the Virgin Council prior.
Um and I I agree that, you know, having
that number um
doesn't harm us in anyway. I don't know
from Mr. O'Brien's standpoint if it
needs to go to code or so we have to
change everything, but I I feel
perfectly fine with setting a flat fee
of $5,025
um so people understand exactly what
they're going to be coming to the city
hall to pay to purchase their property.
Mr. Mayor.
>> a number that we'll review further if
these need to be codified. You have a
number in in in in in the short term.
You have a number.
With that Unless the mayor wants to pay
for people to have their house back, in
which case
Mr. Rash.
Um on a related note
the foreclosure process
um it it takes a long time until a
property
is foreclosed on and
during the foreclosure process, there is
a 6-month redemption period.
It used to be 3 years. It was the state
law changed um last I think a couple
years ago um that made it 6 months.
Perhaps the council can think about what
the council can do, what the city can
do, but what can can the members of the
city council do to help the community
um
not get to the point where they have to
purchase it back because if they just
pay during the redemption period, they pay um
the tax the back taxes, they pay the
foreclosure fee and they pay the
interest and they redeem it as of right.
They don't have to go through all of
this, you know, requests and and closing
and and and deeds.
It it gets withdrawn from the
foreclosure and and it's called
redeemed.
And
once the once the city gets judgment and
then takes title, it winds up being much
more complicated and much
um more expensive. So, perhaps the city
council can think about what it can do
to help
people not get to this point because if
they came if they were able to to raise
the money now, if they had just raised
it during the redemption period, it
would have been a lot simpler for them
um
and for for us, of course, and certainly
probably um
you know,
better um for their circumstances. So,
perhaps it's just a recommendation,
think about what what can the city
council do uh to help people um
recognize the need to become current on
their taxes
and um
at least redeem during the redemption
period, which which tons of people do.
Tons and tons of people do. It's it's
great.
But then there are a few that that don't
and they wind up having to go through
this much more complicated and more
expensive process. So, um I just wanted
to bring to your attention that there is
a redemption period and
um
perhaps there's a way to get through
your voices get it out to the community
during each foreclosure, you know, get
to city hall and and pay those taxes so
that you don't wind up having to go
through this much more complicated and
expensive process.
Mr. Couldn't agree more. I think part of
our extended dialogue, which is at the
expense of all of us watching the NCAA
game that's on right now, I think it's
recognizing that
in these sessions is when I find the
most value because we're getting to the
weeds of the issue. I cannot agree more.
I attended a session in our community
where had a a presentation by BC9 and
SNAP talking about the foreclosure
resources that they provide to residents
and even with those, the number is still
far reaching. We are always chasing.
Um in the cases that we had come before
us, a lot of it is fear. A lot of it is
did the information go to the right
person? And if the expectation
[clears throat]
is you need to know as a homeowner, we
need to make sure that all of our
communication that's public facing
reflects that. So, I think we can always
chase education and enforcement, but
sincerely just because the city can do
something doesn't mean that it should
and that could not be more reflective of
the fact that we sit here as
representatives of the community to keep
our hands on the balance scale. And I
know that sometimes it seems as though
we are pitting the city against itself,
that is not the case. It is just
ensuring that we are taking into
consideration those unique moments where
truly the system did not support the
resident. And then how do we improve our
systems moving forward to ensure that it
does? And to your point earlier, this is
not every case, but I do think in those
singular issues, I could have been one
of those six youth that would have been
foreclosed on and their house wouldn't
have been taken away.
Anyway, it's good. So, I think it's
truly important to make sure that we
remain guided by the work and its impact
on the community and uh I think set
ourselves up for success. So, I think
education is key. I think in a special
meeting we can bring some presentations
in place to understand what the work
looks like on the ground. Um but I truly
I think this conversation, although was
strenuous, I think we've clearly
outlined to the community that this is a
variable process and we're doing our
best as a city and with that difference,
we can continue forward.
Um so, there are no other questions or
comments. I'll ask for a recess.
I see the open plane.
So moved. I will second. All those in
favor? I have a recess.
I'd like to call um to order please. We
have one item on the agenda.
Um we're going to Long Pond Village
Apartments LLC.
Um it will be in executive session. Um
Uh who's on that committee? Oh, yes.
I got it right here. Dre, Hayden,
Justin. Yes. I think the motion to go
into executive session. Second. All in
favor?
>> Aye. We're in executive session. All the
members of the public would have to
leave, please and thank you.
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