[music]
» Mhm.
» [music]
» Mhm.
» Good evening. I'd like to call to order
the Schenectady City Council Committee
for Monday, April 20th, 2026. The first
item will be a presentation by the
Cornell Cooperative Extension.
So, I'd like to invite both of our
guests up.
We have a beautiful microphone.
>> Fantastic. So, we also have to scroll on
our slides. Is that okay?
We want to
We can share the mic. Do you want to
bring it up here?
All right.
Are we good?
Hello. Good evening. Thanks for having
us today. We're really excited to share
our project with you and talk a little
bit about more about how we can
incorporate the city into this. My name
is Kayla Picarero. I'm the recycling and
composting educator for Cornell
Cooperative Extension in Schenectady
County.
I also run the Schenectady County Free
Cycles program.
And my name is Yarrow Bautista. I mainly
oversee the actual system
and do various education sessions
through Sycamore Collaborative.
So, we are going to hopefully scroll
through these for you all.
And talk a little bit about why
composting is important and why we're
here to begin with. So, composting is an
essential part of the nutrient cycle.
You probably all heard of composting.
It's kind of that dirty gross thing that
has to do with food scraps and soil and
how they're connected. Essentially, what
we can do is is take food scraps that
are destined for the landfill where they
will end up methane and create all sorts
of air pollutants and not so great
stuff. So, we want to avoid that by
diverting everything from the landfills
and sending it to compost instead where
it creates nutrient-rich soil amendment
where we can use in farms and we
particularly use it on school gardens in
the Schenectady City School District and
we're really proud of that initiative.
I'm going to scroll.
Um so, compost can happen at various
scales. A lot of what we do is at the
community scale.
Um
but uh for all intents and purposes, you
would be participating in compost at the
municipal scale which is
definitely the most effective
way to have composting because it
ensures that access is
to people throughout a community rather
than um
rather than
sectional things like
commercial composting which is only
accessible to those that are able to
afford certain costs and fees or
individual composting which is only
accessible to those that have the
backyard space
or the or the physical ability to be
able to compost.
So,
question about how we do all of this.
It's basically through the Schenectady
Community Compost Project which is a
partnership between six different
organizations that are working together
to bring composting to the residents of
Schenectady.
We are primarily focused on schools and
community composting where most of our
food scraps come from that we process on
site at Fair Avenue Urban Farm in a
composting system known as a static
aerated pile or an SAP system or an ASP
system.
Our partners really quickly for you are
[snorts] the Schenectady City School
District's Farm to School program
Schenectady Urban Farms, Schenectady
Soil and Water Conservation District,
myself at Cornell Cooperative Extension,
Schenectady County and then Sycamore
Collaborative which is where Yarrow
works.
Our compost system for more details, our
ASP is a solar-powered composting system
that can process up to 1,000 lb of food
scraps per week
and it's capable of, you know, diverting
all of that waste by these aerated
systems that you can see on the screen.
There's a 4-month turnaround time on
that nutrient-rich material. And like I
said, the majority of our food scraps
come from Zoller Elementary School. We
also compost at two other schools and
other districts and we bring it there
and we process it on site. Everything
that's turned over either stays on there
or it gets brought back to the schools
for the school gardens so that
everything is full circle
and that the kids are able to kind of
get their hands in the dirt. This is
what our system looks like when it's
full of food scraps and carbon material.
That's myself and the director of Soil
and Water Conservation District standing
on top of the pile and the handprints
you see along the bottom are from the
second grade class at Zoller Elementary
School and they were able to come and
put their handprints on and we dedicated
it to them so that we could really
incorporate the students. And then we
bring the second grade class at Zoller
every year to see the system and see
where their food scraps go and and so
they can understand exactly their their
impact that they're having in the
community which is really great.
Um so, as as we mentioned before, Zoller
Elementary is the
major contributor
to
the actual composting system that we're
managing over in the Fair Avenue Farm,
but we also get input from the Sycamore
Collaborative Food Pantry which is
the destination for a lot is the biggest
pantry in the in the region
and it is where a lot of the regional
food bank
um
grocery store pickups are destined to.
So, we have various ways to try to
reduce the the landfill input that is
going in and instead take that over and
compost it to shift that impact towards a positive impact
rather than a negative impact. We also
have community compost drop-off
locations
that are managed by Kayla
in which we have over 110 families
throughout Schenectady County that are
able to divert their waste and they make
an effort every single week to to do so.
And we also have just lots of
other occasional things like we support
people that
may have a lot of like fallen apples in
the fall and things like that.
Yeah, so
as of very recently, we have been able
to divert over 100,000 lb of organic food scraps which I'm going
to ask you to clap for that because
>> [laughter]
» Um that kind of diversion is something
that is unheard of for a community scale
composting system. It takes a lot of
effort and when you're considering that
most of the things being diverted are
diverted by kids from ages
5 to 11,
it just really brings in the context
that this is something that is affecting
those kids in extremely extremely
positive ways because they not only feel
empowered but they are also learning
critical skills like understanding the
difference between materials and
understanding this is
something that is organic, something
that is going to break down, something
that is going to be able to
after breaking down feed my very own
school garden and feed other places
throughout the community. They're able
to see that with their eyes and they
have multiple ways to kind of make that
connection between the food that they're
consuming and the food that grows
on land.
And um
on top of that, it really brings in a
lot of
benefit to Schenectady in general
because
all of that material that would have
otherwise gone to
that would have gone to
places before it going out to the Seneca
Falls landfill is now instead not
producing methane and other
and or and other greenhouse gases that
are that would have been harmful to our
communities and our and our state in
general
and the grand
and
instead we are able to
divert the amount of energy that it
would take 31 homes for an entire year
to power their homes. So,
um
for for context, we have also been able
to even though this is a waste diversion
effort to make sure that we're keeping
as much food out of landfills as
possible, we're also generating
so much compost that again is then able
to be utilized in various other spaces
to bring nutrients those nutrients back
to the community in community gardens
and school gardens that are able to feed
our kids, are able to feed
our community members
and are accessible.
Okay. So, programming in general
consists of a lot. We do a lot through
the community compost project with all
of our partners. We go into schools, we
do waste audits, we go into businesses,
we do waste audits.
We support prospective composting
programs which we're currently doing at
right now in Scotia-Glenville doing that
for another school. So, really excited
to keep moving on and and trucking
through and getting more schools on
board.
There's a lot more kind of buzz around
the city school districts about what we
can do there.
We do all sorts of community drop-off,
community giveback days. Just did one on
Saturday at Fair Avenue Farm where
residents come in and make a compost to
bring back to their houses. So, we try to make it
kind of community full circle events. I
don't know if anybody's ever heard of
pumpkin smash, but it's a really good
time in November
where we bring in the community to do
things like this.
We're smashing pumpkins and composting
the waste. So,
we have a full few weeks coming up of of
educational programming for the kiddos.
We're going to, you know, reach, you
know, probably over 1,000 kids over the
next few weeks, which is really
exciting. So,
we're really really proud of this this
project.
Um so,
now we're finally at the part where why
we're here tonight. So, where do we go
from here?
We are looking to do just everything
that we can to divert food scraps and
increase awareness and education. It's
connected
for a few reasons, right? We all know
there's trash problem, right? Our trash
day is is crazy driving through these
streets, but
we can support that by taking the food
scraps out of that equation. So, if
we're able to take that out, that's
reducing the weight of the trash that is
being put out, right? That's harmful for
our actual people who are physically
picking up the bags. We're reducing that
weight. We're reducing the methane
output from the landfills. We're
reducing the actual amount of trash
that's just sitting on the streets
during trash day that's being picked up.
Instead, we're giving people a little
bit more autonomy and ownership over
what they can do with their with their
waste. Um so, composting at the
municipal the municipal scale
reduces strain on the system. It's a
point of pride, honestly. Our system as
it is right now is is really impactful
and we could increase that. We're
increasing it tenfold every time we just
get one more sign up, right? Um we're
expanding Schenectady's sustainability
reach. Um
I know that it's like a goal of the
city, so it'd be really cool to partner
on something like that. Um
what we're looking to do and what would
have the greatest impact would be to
replicate our ASP system, our static
aerated pile system, elsewhere in the
city so that we can do the program even
more, right? So, what we have at Fair
Avenue, we serve 110 families. If we can
serve more if we're not servicing
schools, so we could certainly service
quite a few hundred households out of
in a system like that.
And we are kind of looking for spaces to
do that. We're looking for funds to do
that. And the idea right now is that,
you know, there's some spaces at
Steinmetz Park in that neighborhood that
would probably be a great place to start
looking for that. Another benefit of
that is some of the students in that
area actually go to Dolly. So, what
they'd be doing at school, they could
actually take home and then their their
families could be composting at home as
well, which would be really neat.
And we're we're looking to expand that
way. So, educational efforts would
continue with residents in that
capacity. And then, if we were able to
get a structure on site, we would be
hoping that we would have a compost
coordinator to then maintain that site
and hopefully expand. So, yeah,
the system is in the grand scheme of
things, it's not crazy, you know, crazy
number cuz you figure looking at around
$20,000 to implement something like
that.
And the impact would be a few hundred
families in that immediate area. And
then we could offer it up to anybody
who's willing to drive to that area as
well, of course. Um and we're hoping to
expand expand the program to kind of hit
those marks and
bring composting to more folks in City
of Schenectady where
we'd love to be more involved.
That's all we have for you. Thank you.
Questions or comments?
Uh hearing none,
I definitely appreciate you coming out
to speak. Sincerely, having this
presentation offers to your point, how
do we reduce the strain on the system? I
know you mentioned a few hundred
families. Can you speak to what what in
realistic metrics are for how many you
can anticipate if the city adopted
something like this in the first year?
That is a fantastic question.
Yeah. Um right now we have 110 and we're
increasing about 200
lbs. So,
less than 1,000 would be another five
about 500 households
theoretically, depending on, you know,
every household's different.
And then I know in our personal
conversations you talked about the
differences between pick up and drop
off. Would you mind just expanding on
that? Absolutely. So, right now we have
only pick up at the schools because
that's our capacity.
We have drop off in Central Park. We
have two locations right now. It's
really really convenient. 24/7.
They're really nice looking drop off
systems, if I do say so myself.
And people are able to access them
through a locked code and then they go
and drop off their food scraps. And
you're all welcome to pick them up in
the truck, bring them to our static
aerated pile system, drop them off, and
process them there.
It would be highly beneficial
if we were to look at maybe a pilot
program like Troy's. They did a pilot
program from 2021 to 2023
where they serviced 250 households over
that period of time. They had a free
base pilot program.
And they were able to partner with Food
Scraps 360, which is a local composting
business. And they did a pick up
program, which for a lot of folks is
more convenient, right? You don't have
to leave your house to drop off your
food scraps. You just put a bucket at
the end of your driveway.
And they were able to fund that with a a
matched USDA USDA grant. And that was a
really successful program. So, there's both options, really.
And the Sorry. No. Uh the last would
just be any stigma associated with it,
the smell. Can you just talk about the
technology and how
that's not the case. I'd love to talk
about that.
>> [laughter]
>> Would you like to share about how close
our neighbors are at our composting
system? Uh 100%. So, we have, I think,
three houses that are directly directly
bordering Fair Avenue Farm on just one
side. And on the further side, we have
another house that just has a small gap
between it and the location. Um
there have been zero total reports since
the the start of the program over three
years ago. Um
and
many people are operating in the farm
space
on a regular basis. And there have been
no complaints regarding to the smell
because
if the process is done properly, there
are biofilters
with all of the material being covered.
And it being a static aerated system
means that
it is
only really
allowing for
It's only really allowing for heat
loving bacteria, which are the positive
bacteria that are generally not going to
create as foul of smells as something
like
um
uh like anaerobic bacteria, which is
something like if that if you were to
leave something inside of a closed
bucket for a prolonged period of time
and [clears throat] you open up, that
would be where you would have negative
smells as opposed to composting, which
is actively reducing that.
Thank you. Um Mr. Doran? Thank you.
Whereabouts in Central Park are these
located? Sure. So, the composting system
itself is on Fair Avenue at our urban
farm. And so, we do have a drop spot
right there. And then we have a second
drop spot at the Sustainable Living
Center, which is CCE property.
Whereabouts is that in? Next to the
tennis courts. Oh, sure. Okay. And my
next question is, how many
pounds do you think do you have a
poundage of what you've collected so
far? So, we just recently hit 100,000
lbs of food scraps through the system.
>> Who's at the 103? Yeah. Yeah.
It's been a really great program.
The community has kind of taken it and
run. I just got three more sign ups for
the community compost this weekend,
which is really exciting cuz people are
waking up now. Yes. Great. Uh if there
are no other questions or comments, I
think sincerely what your efforts have
been able to produce over the few years
at the community level is very
commendable. I appreciate you demanding
that appreciation.
But only imagining what we can replicate
at a municipal level, even with the
monetary consideration towards the
$20,000 with respect to our total
budget, I think sincerely as we later
addressed the concept of just waste
collection and reuse, it is becoming
just a growing challenge, not just for
our system, but for our workers.
So, I think considering these types of
opportunities, it is a requirement and
expectation not just for us, but for the
next generation so we're able to leave
them something usable as a product.
[clears throat]
Um so, thank you for your time. I look
forward to presenting something with
some findings for consideration at a
future meeting, but thank you again.
Thank you all so much. Thank you.
So, at this time, we will have public
safety. Uh so, I'd like to call the
public safety committee to order. We
have one item on the agenda, the
Statewide Targeted Reductions in
Intimate Partner Violence Initiative,
STRIVE in year two grant. Uh it's
Senator Vavulish.
Good evening, everyone. Senator Vavulish
here to
present the, as mentioned, Statewide
Targeted Reductions in Intimate Partner
Violence Initiative, otherwise known as
the STRIVE grant. This is the second
year running.
Uh
To give a quick back brief on it, uh
the governor has allocated money to
equip law enforcement agencies, district
attorneys, municipal services provide
service providers, and other agencies
necessary funding, guidance, and
training to effectively respond to,
mitigate, prosecute intimate partner
violence through evidence-based,
survivor-centered, trauma-informed, and
culturally responsive interventions.
It's a mouthful.
Uh
Ultimately, the county has been awarded
a little over 1.1 million, which is
going to be divided amongst uh our
police department,
uh district attorney's office, the
county sheriff's department, uh county
probation, Rotterdam police, and the
YWCA.
Uh again, this money's coming from DCJS
for a contract period between April 1st
and March 31st of next year.
So, [clears throat]
our portion, the Schenectady Police
Department, is going to receive
$338,433,
which will go to support two dedicated
detectives, one on days, one on
afternoons,
half the salary of one of our crime
analysts, and
other targeted overtime detail funding.
All right, are there any questions or
comments? Yes, Mr.
Is this Is this part of the 2026 budget?
This is This is Can we account for this
in the 2026
Say that
>> Can we account for this in the 2026
budget? Correct. The assumption was
there.
Thank you.
To my knowledge, STRIVE is going to be
similar to the Give Grants, and it's
just not going away in the in in the
foreseeable future.
So.
Hearing no other questions, going to
have a motion to move this.
>> So moved.
Second.
All in favor? Aye. Aye.
Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, not
you. Sorry,
Um
Second. Second.
All in favor? Aye.
If there is nothing else to fall before
Public Safety, I call for motion to
adjourn. So moved.
Second. All in favor? Aye.
Thank you, we are adjourned. Um just for
clarification, the first quarter report
and finances being pulled. We'll have
this back at our next committee meeting
once Mr. Guptamok is available.
That's clarification.
» [clears throat]
» I would like to call the Health and
Recreation Committee into order.
We have one item on the agenda.
Um the updated
Riverside Park
skate park funding.
Mr. Williams. Thank you. And I had the
opportunity to meet with Assemblyman
Santabarbara last week. He's very
excited to hear that plans to receive
state funding are still progressing
forward.
I don't know what status the budget is
to date,
but Assemblyman wanted to kind of poll
the council. I know we have a few new
members.
This originally was considered in
December of last year.
And there was activities currently in
place.
Park is not sanctioned, but there are
skateboard activities currently
underway.
I'm so taking it upon ourselves to
identify some funding streams that would
allow us to just renovate that space,
and then bring it up to code. And then
potentially as the city's inaugural
skate park,
was a
point of consideration that not only the
neighborhood association would
recognize and would appreciate, but also
the skateboarding community.
So, I think at this time, just wanting
to see if there's still that continued
sense of this collaboration with us
continuing. I think the last thing
Assemblyman Santabarbara would like to
do is get funding for a project that
nobody wants.
Any questions or concerns?
Mayor.
Do you have any conceptual designs on
this, or what dollar value are we
speaking of? We had a capital budget,
and the numbers internally looked at the
existing facility is about 18,000
square feet.
Uh replacing it with what's a concrete
structure,
uh
estimates run like $100, $110 a square
foot. So, that gets you to just under $2
million.
They also talked about
they want some type of restrooms there.
Do you put them where the
current skateboard park is? The uh
full adaptive reuse of the old pump
station still hasn't happened.
And Stockade Association also has
requests in for funding for
a sidewalk replacement program. I don't
know if they are withdrawing that in
favor of this, or they're looking for
simultaneous funding, cuz the likelihood
of getting
those two projects funded is
realistically slim in any one fiscal
year.
Okay, I completely agree. Um I think
it's not limiting ourselves just on just
the interpretations that we have
internally
with respect to just the design specs.
We did have a conversation with one
potential vendor.
I think
most of the agencies that support these
types of efforts do a design-to-build
component. Uh one of the individuals
was not able to provide us a design
without giving them the like a lot of
fee, which is between $15,000
but was able to secure a tentative
design, and that took into consideration
having a concrete slab report. The
estimates were around $100,000.
Um based on the scale, I think they
projected at 20,000 square feet.
However, their recommendation was if you
build equipment on top of it, um there
are tremendous cost savings, especially
since their facility is able to manage
manufacture it internally. Um and they
were able to provide a scaled approach
of an investment of 100,000 to 300,000.
Um and that was provided to the
neighborhood association and the
skateboarding community not as an
official like design, but just as a way
to kind of conceptually move past just
our thoughts to seeing what it could
look like in reality. Um so, I think
Assemblyman Santabarbara
had a consideration for around $300,000.
And one of the final points is in these
projects with municipalities, it is not
a far-fetched to have a scaled approach.
So, they often talked about how these
projects are multi-year and just to get
the process started. At the present
time,
no skateboarding activities should be
conducted, and there are. So, I think
how do we respect that they do exist and
allow them to function in a manner that
is both safe and accessible. And
truly final point was with uh
considerations to the restrooms, I think
in the interim having a port-a-potty was
something that everyone recognizes
better than people
just using the bathroom out by the
trees. Um so, I think as long as we have
something projected down the line, that
the neighborhood association very much
just recognized as long as we don't lose
sight of that in the future, they could
be amenable to just whatever we're able
to do with that.
If there's nothing further to discuss,
um Mr. Toro. Thank you, um could we get
a copy of those specs and costs sent to
me for the skateboard people and the I
would like to see it. I mean, if Mr.
Santabarbara
Angela
So, this is
Santabarbara can get I mean, the full
amount. I mean, you know, and and the
question always was is that really where
we really wanted it? I know during
the ARPA money, we we had a nice space
for them, but they kind of like there,
but so, I think it's a bigger discussion
as well, but I would like to see at
least what someone presented.
Right?
Um so, I think
part of the consideration was how do we
ensure that we're making the most use of
time. I think in all of my
conversations, I've been very
intentional saying I'm one of seven
votes,
but how do we ensure that we are
being amenable to the fact that we could
get this funding, that we could not. How
do we save time? Because essentially, we
can still use part of the 2026 year
the funding allows it if it
comes into place at the right right
time. Um I can share those with the
council. I think just I move from a
space of just wanting to be very
cognizant of as soon as the city truly
touches this,
I think everyone can understand that we
are still liable for anything that
happens within that area, regardless
whether signs are up there or not.
>> [clears throat]
>> Um so, I was trying to be considerate to
Mr. Williams' kind of work volume, but I
can absolutely share those. It's just
nothing official has started.
Mr. Abdellatif. Um so, you're looking
for a support a letter of support, or a
total for us to renew last year's
resolution?
Mr. Williams. I don't think that's
necessary as long as the
council in its current form is still
amenable or in agreement [snorts] with
us continuing on.
So, with respect to Ms. Wiggins, Mr.
Chairs, and Mr. Inger, any of this
sounds as though something that you can
see us still proceeding forward with.
Mr. Assemblyman Santabarbara was just
looking to kind of just re-engage with
that. Understood.
Mr. Mayor.
But again, in terms of the city's
priority, we still may need some money.
Had conversations with the state
legislators in terms of finishing some
of the paving and street work adjacent
to the swimming pool, tennis courts, and
greenhouse.
We may also need a little bit more money
to finish the conversion of the
casino
in Central Park, which was
Santabarbara was uh very instrumental in
getting that. And then in this,
again, Stockade Association has reached
out looking for a sidewalk program. So,
I don't know which one
would take priority as opposed to
and this is a limited pot of money.
Mr. Chairs. Um folds, Mr. Brown, for
part that Mr. Williams had asked you
already. Just verifying for point
clarification, do we need to do an
actual renewal of the resolution as
>> No. Okay. It can just remain there. I
mean, you don't have to you know you
give it it's there. It probably asked
for that money.
Okay. Just making sure that we're we're
in compliance and doing everything. I
know he's giving respect to himself and
to Ms. Wiggins, but I want to make sure
that if it needs to be done properly.
Well, the the Assemblymember asked the
Council President just to take a the
temperature of the the Council if
there was
if we're not in support of it anymore,
then we would have to rescind it. Um but
if we're if the sense of the Council is to keep
ongoing as it is, then
the Council that resolution is not that
old.
Four or five months old, so.
And
thank you. And uh Mr. Mayor, um just for
that I know we
know what this grant is. I What is the
amount that you uh we've estimated for
the sidewalk replacement that they
originally asked for from the Stockade
Association comparable to the 300,000
grant that the Assemblyman is saying you
can get for the skateboard park.
I don't know what the number is for
sidewalks, what they're asking for.
Well, I would say they're probably
asking for all the sidewalks.
There is not enough money for that, so.
[clears throat]
Got you.
Thank you.
If there's nothing further to come
before the Health and Recreation
Committee, I ask for a motion to
adjourn. So Second.
All Committee's adjourned.
All in favor. I
Committee's adjourned.
I just want to like to call to the uh
inter-order Committee of Government
Operations.
Seeing one item on the agenda, I'd like
to recognize Council President Carl
Williams.
Thank you. Uh so this is sincerely a
continuation of a conversation that we
heard at I think
two previous Council meetings
uh with an individual, Mr. Sage, coming
up and asking the city to endorse a
project that will be coming through our
municipality.
This taking very intentional
vantage point of the Underground
Railroad and how it will cross through a
segment of the city of Schenectady. Uh
this was a two-phased approach, um part
of which started and I believe Central
New York, and the second phase is going
to continue through uh the metropolitan
area and carry forth through Albany,
Schenectady, and out west to connect the
two.
Um
I I have never heard of a byway before,
um but I think if we have any
opportunity to preserve history and
culture, I think in a manner that just
allows us to um further highlight just
uh previous struggles and constantly
that type of just legacy with Harriet
Tubman and the Underground Railroad. I
think it is our the requirement as
municipality to really consider this,
and he's very intentional in saying that
these efforts from municipalities to
endorse this go a very long way. So, I
think they've already had 26
municipalities sign on. Um there's
nothing new, but sincerely our
investment would help
progress these efforts forward.
You've heard the resolution support the
Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad
byway in New York State. Any question?
Thank you. So, I spoke to the gentleman
when he came that evening and
steered him over to the library to
visit Harriet and and Mr. Seward.
He didn't know they were there. I did
ask him about I know like um whenever
you along the highway you see um
Eisenhower, it's an Eisenhower highway.
There's a lot of funding that goes out
for it, and he said it would be the same
opportunity here.
Uh you know, there'd be funding and
grants uh to help with whatever needed
to be done. So, yes, thank you
for bringing it forward.
I think he said they acquired half a
million dollars, and I don't think they
have any other needs outside of that,
but very much I think just having the
support from local municipalities helps.
Any other questions?
Seeing none,
do I
have a vote Excuse me, a motion on the
floor to support the Harriet Tubman
Underground Railroad?
Moved. So moved.
It's properly said moved by Councilwoman
Wiggins, properly seconded by Council
President Williams. All those in favor?
I I
Seeing no other items on the agenda, do
I have a motion to adjourn Government
Operations?
Second. All. So moved. It's moved by Councilwoman Williams, seconded
by Councilwoman Wiggins. All those in
favor? I. Government Operations is now
closed at 6:04 p.m.
I'd like to call to order Public Service
and Utilities. Tonight we have a
discussion
uh from Mr. Rowan about the city's MS4
program, Mr. Rowan.
Thank you.
Um
I came to you guys last year with an I'm
going to just want to push this button
now.
Sorry. Put this here. Thank you.
Um
So, every year I have to come before you
and we talk about the city's MS4
program. Um the New York State passing
permit
two years ago, so we're in year three of
the new DEC general permit, which puts
requirements on municipalities such as
the city of Schenectady with regards to
stormwater quality review and
inspections. So, this is uh kind of an
annual update to the Council, the Mayor,
and then the city public at large.
Um just so everybody is aware, our MS 4
report, an annual report that's meant to
be kept public, it is on the city
website. It is currently on the water
department website, but the water
department website is probably the not
the correct spot to be. So, I just had a
meeting today with IT, and we're going
to be looking to make a new stormwater
page uh which we'll actually probably be
able to do it this week on the
Department of Engineering's website. So,
we're really trying to get all the
information that is required available
online. We're also going to probably
keep some of that information outside
here at the clerk's office just so
people are aware of illicit discharges
and who they would call and the steps.
Um we you know, we use the SeeClickFix
system. We can still use that, but it's
just getting the message out on how
people would report spills and what
information we have with regards to outfalls. So,
everything's online uh on the city water
department, and then later this week
it's going to be moved to the Department
of Engineering.
Um the city did have an audit with the
DEC on March 24th. We haven't been
audited in several years. The DEC comes
in person for the day, and they meet
with city staff,
uh and they go through our report, and
they make comments. We have not received
their comments yet, but I'm anticipating
them as they're still reviewing them. Um
and then as part of that comment period,
they also go with us to our Bureau of
Service, which is our main area where we
have, you know, our our trucks and
vehicles, and they do inspections on the
catch basins and means and methods to
make sure that we have all of our
catch basins are clean, our trucks are
not leaking, things like that, cuz it's
all about keeping the the work areas
clean. So, we have we have that going
on. Um one of the things is we've had a
lot of construction in the past couple
of years. Right now, we're actually at a
little bit of a wall. So, anyone that
disturbs more than an acre has to have a
stormwater management plan. That plan uh
usually starts with the planning
department. That's where, you know,
projects start. Then engineering reviews
those plans, and we go through the DEC,
and we handle the permits for anything
over an acre. Um right now, we have two
active. The two active permits we have
are the YWCA expansion and the Stockade
on Washington Avenue, and we have a
storage uh company on Watt Street, which
we old parking lot that is at the corner
of Watt across from um
uh
an industrial building that's right
there by the bridge. So, those are the
two active uh SWIPs that we have going
on, and the Development Department is
working right now with GE Vernova on an
exciting project on campus that will not
only require one acre, but they're
looking to do with the Morris Turbines,
so we're working with them on their
multi-phase project on the GE campus.
So, that's what's going on with regards
to the SWIPs. Um
Also, we are working with a consultant,
MJ Engineering, and residents on the
Hans Groot Kill and College Creek that
was brought up by Union College about
water quality
um in the GE plot on College Creek where
it's open. Um that project's been going
on for a little over a year, but it's a
very intensive project requiring a lot
of field work. Um we've been working
with consultants and using in-house
staff to dye test, smoke, make sure that
the goal is trying to find any older
homes that may have tapped into a
stormwater uh storm water a storm line
instead of a sanitary line, which
creates that cross-contamination.
Uh the city of Schenectady is very
fortunate that we have two separate
systems, but a lot of municipalities in
this uh state do not. They have a single
system, which is one of the things that
everyone is trying to eliminate. And
then lastly, as part of some of our
requirements, we will be inspecting all
of our city outfalls. So, the city
outfalls is is kind of what it sounds
like. It is where
um the stormwater meets another body of
water. It's where it it it it comes out.
We used to have
over 75 outfalls, but we went through an
audit internally working with a
consultant, and we narrowed it down to
essentially 35 outfalls cuz we were
counting outfalls on the same
stream,
and we
you don't need to do that. An outfall is
at the end of the stream where you have
it where where it daylights. Um so,
we're working on that. And then and then
part of this, too, is really working on
the mapping component. I'm sure you saw
up in the news that we're working with a
group called Civil
on on pavement management and software.
Part of the Civil package is working
with GIS
uh and the mayor's team with Matt
Douglass, and we are looking to um as
part of the Civil package, uh what
they'll be doing is not only collecting
um data for the road conditions, but
we're allowed two assets a year as part
of that program. The two assets that we
selected this year are curb ramps, which
are required by the state for ADA
compliance, and then we also selected
catch basins. So, at the end of our
civil audit, which Steve is working on
this week, if you were ready, he's going
[clears throat] to be driving. They're
going to uh process all the data, and
we're going to get geo locations of all
the catch basins in the city, which
we're then going to collocate with some
of the existing information we have to
try to start building a 3D map of the
stormwater system, which is actually
part of what they want to see. They want
to see that you know
uh if you pour something into a catch
basin, exactly where that water is going
to go, and vice versa, if we go to an
outfall, and we see a white or red or
some kind of a shiny liquid, that we can
actually trace that back and find the
source. That's part of what the program
is.
So, um a lot of progress that we're
making. Uh also in the budget is an MS4
officer. Uh that's something that I've
been working with Paul on, working with
civil service trying to bring someone on
to handle this because there's other uh
paperwork items and things working with
uh one of the things we have to do is
document all treatment basins, and and
that that's another thing that we're
hoping to do via mapping so that we know
where they are. You know, there's
underground units, there's private
units. We really have to make sure that
they are being maintained and kept in
working order. Um and that's a new
requirement that we're going to start
working on as well.
So,
that is my update as uh as we're kind of
like I said, and as required. If anybody
has any questions, I'll be more than
happy to answer them.
Mr. Williams. Um
thank you for that uh
briefing. I think my one question is
actually around the civil package. Uh I
was trying to recall, Mr. Williams, I
don't know if you can help me on Was
there any financial considerations that
came before the council for that, or not
needed at this time?
No. No, this the about the the civil
package we paid for with our fees for
service lines, and through um some of
our existing codes because the platform
actually crosses so many departments
that we were able to use uh fee for
service lines that were in budget. It
was uh not uh an exorbitantly expensive
program. It was
Thank you.
Uh Mr. Chaires. For the MS4 officer that you were saying you need, um do we
have a financial a financial number that
goes with that, any kind of Oh, it's in
the budget. Okay. It is a position that
is budgeted, but we are working with um
civil service right now because what we
need to do is change the job
description. The position used to be a
little bit of a lower level uh like an
assistant engineer type position, but we
really want to do is make sure that it's
written that the MS4 officer is the one
that is responsible for the program, and
is not someone that just is responsible
for the program to me. I want really to
make sure that the person uh knows that
this is their program, that they are
They're not an an assistant. So, there's
a lot of little language in there that
if you've ever read a job description
that says something like shall assist or
shall hire, it's it's We're trying to
make it so when we hire someone, we can
say that
this is, you know,
this is this is your primary focus to
make sure And we have consultants that
we work with uh to help. So, we're not
going to be putting somebody out there
just, you know, like a babe in the
woods. It's going to be something that,
you know, we're we're going to give
people resources to succeed.
Um
but I I just want to make sure that this
is not a position that's solely written
to be someone to help me, and then
everything solely falls back to me.
Mr. Thanks.
Mr. Williams.
What was being done before this grant
came about?
How was y'all conducting the data?
Grant. Before before the MSG this whole
thing that y'all doing, how was y'all
keeping up with all of this stuff before
that?
>> So, we the MS4 program was always out.
It was always MS4s, excuse me. No, it
was always it was always something that
was out there, but this new permit that
came out in 2024, they'd been working on
it for a decade. So, what essentially
what was happening was this all the
municipalities DEC In a perfect world,
the DEC would be fully staffed to
100,000 people, and they'd be able to
handle all these things on behalf of New
York State. That's not what happened.
So, what they started to do is push some
of those responsibilities down on the
municipalities. So, municipalities such
as Schenectady became MS4s, designated,
and it's our jobs to do essentially that
effective rates. They passed
legislation, we have to enforce
legislation. With the new permit, they
even pushed it even farther to say,
"Okay, you approved uh for example, um
we'll just use like a a Home Depot. Go
to the Home Depot over on the Crosstown,
and you'll go in, and they'll have like
a retention basin. You'll see like a wet
area, right? That retains all the
stormwater from the parking lot.
Under the old, it's your retention
basin, you know? And now under this,
it's the city has to go and inspect that
retention basin to make sure it's
working properly. We have to make sure
that if a city uh if if the Galesi
Group, they have a vortex unit, which is
called it's a giant underground
in the ground. We have to go and make
sure that that's been inspected and get
records of that. They're pushing more
requirements down. So, we used to do
these things specifically just centered
around development of this more than an
acre, but now it's even more active.
It's "Okay,
you did that, but now that they've moved
on, now you're still responsible for it.
You have to make sure that they're still
responsible for it." So, it's just it's more essentially unfunded mandates
on the municipalities, which is why that
position is now needed is because it's
going to be annual letters, it's going
to be annual inspections and things to
really ramp up to make sure that uh that
we're there. And, you know, in the
suburban areas, they have more of this
because they have more new developments,
they have more new treatments. We don't
have a lot of these type of treatments
in the city, but we do have some. And
so, that's part of the mapping is going
to be to make sure we map where they
are, and then come up with a a a
strategy of how we're going to document
that the people are cleaning them, and
then they're in in working order. And
then we have to do that as per the
report. And that section of the report
it says
uh if you were to look through it
online,
it has all these first-year mandates,
second-year mandates, third, fourth,
fifth years, and and how you build your
program. So, by the fifth year, you
should have it all built out.
Thanks, Mr. Williams. Questions, Mr.
Williams? Yeah. Um you mentioned uh
paying uh all through the fees for
service. How much are you paying on
civil on civil things to do this pothole
program? The civil pothole program? It's
uh approximately $20,000. $20,000. So,
you mentioned uh
it's a pothole project, but they're
focusing on uh curb
and the What is it? Drainage? The man No.
Okay. So, I'll I'll give you a You want
to talk about civil for this one second?
Okay. So, what civil is is civil is a
essentially it's Google Street View for,
you know, layman's terms. It's it's a
Google Street View device with a lidar
component, and lidar means uh it's
essentially a survey device. So, um
5 years ago, 10 years ago, a surveyor
would hold the device and have a laser
and would shoot a point. All right? So,
the point was from here to that point,
and you would know the coordinates of
that point. A lidar unit uses GI GPS,
and it always knows where that component
is because it's using satellites, all
right? And then the component on top of
the car, it spins.
And as [clears throat] it spins, it's
shooting out these lasers in a pattern,
a huge pattern. So, as it's driving,
it's actually sending out millions of
points all around, and it's mapping the
city.
So,
we're going to drive all 171 miles of
the city, and we're going to take
photographs, and those photographs are
going to be with them with the laser
group, all right? And we're going to get
that back. Now, civil's main bread and
butter component is that they focus on
the ground. The data on the ground
correlates with the cameras, and it uses
AI to say, "That road looks like it has
cracks. That data that is there looks
like Yes, this is cracks. I can see a
pothole is deeper than a normal." And it
uses that, and it actually will make a
color chart on the roadways of um
distress. So, you'll be able to see the
distress of the roadways. So, that is
civil's bread and butter product. That
is the base product. But, as a company
that's also trying to make money, they
came out and said, "Well, if we're
shooting every point in the city, what
else can we sell municipalities?" So, as
part of that, they also allow you as a
base package, and we're just getting the
base package here, they allow you two
assets a year.
So, we have assets. An asset could be a
fire hydrant, a sign, a tree, a manhole,
a water valve, a curb. So, they have a
whole list. It looks like a menu of
anything that you can see that you can
shoot with these lasers.
Um so, we decided, like I talked about
earlier, that really for
criticalness right now is ADA because
the CHIPS program relies on ADA. We have
to update ramps and keep a collection of
them. That's part of the principle. That
changed about 10 years ago, if y'all
remember. Our paving dollars don't go as
far anymore because now we have to do
ramps. 10 years ago, we didn't have to
do ramps, so our paving dollars went
farther.
And then, it was the catch basins. The
catch basins just so that we have our
map so that we can put that as a check
mark towards the MS4 program. Next year,
with those two baseline checks, we're
looking to do um right now, I think
we're looking to do fire hydrants
and street signs.
So, then that will have uh an idea of
where all the fire hydrants are in the
city, and then our condition of the
street signs so we can do that. And
everything then goes onto a map. And
that's where we're talking. We're
working then with another consultant
who's trying to build out our GIS
platform, and we're going to have
hopefully a public-facing one that the
public can see, and a work-site one that
city employees can see to use for their
daily work.
Um and that's kind of what civil is
doing. Um
I'm very excited about it because right
now, the older way to do it, which we
used to do for pavement assessment, was
every 2 years, 3 years, someone would
drive the city, and you would we would
hire them, and they would look, and they
would say, "We think this road is a
condition A." It's a zero to 10 system.
It's not really rocket science, but
that's a That's how the system would
work. And then you get graded on and we
get a map and that's what we used to do.
This system is going to be much more
advanced than that. Also, we're allowed
to drive the city as many times as we
want. Now,
you don't really need to drive it that
much. So, what we're going to be doing
is we're working with them and we're
driving it now
pre-paving. And we're going to get our
baseline condition pre-paving. Then
we're going to pave our roads with what
we're talking about next. And then after
we pave our roads in November before the
snow comes, we're going to scan it again
and we're going to use that information
to pull together where our program is.
And then we're going to work with Mike
Serone, Chris Lunn, and OGS and we're
going to track where potholes are being
filled. We're going to plug that data
into the AI and then we're going to use
that to hopefully be able to [music]
predict where the next roads are going
to be that fail because we're using AI
generated software.
So,
that's what I know now and I haven't
even used the program yet. So, come to
me in a year and I'll probably know a
lot more. We're going to be working with
them for a couple of years to really
build this out.
But, it's going to be a lot more
transparent. You're going to be able to
have a lot more information available.
But, this this uh this
So, this um
this project will not include potholes
this year
and next year. This will what?
>> This will not include include potholes
this year. Well, never Oh, go ahead.
Potholes is is a wrong Yeah, that's the whole concept.
>> a pavement management system. With the
whole idea is to prevent potholes. Okay.
So, they should be better identifying
where the pavement's going to fail
and staying ahead of it in terms of the
paving program or other than that
maintenance techniques we can use. You mentioned base level. That's what
we're paying $20,000. What what what's
the cost for the next level
if we can expand this project? Oh, so
the base level means that you get all
the data and then the two assets. So, as
you go up you can buy 10 assets, but
they charge you somewhere around $2,000
somewhere more an asset. But, we didn't
need the assets at this point. We really
just want the paving data, which is
included in the base. So, it's They're
like add-ons. And you know, the other you know, powerful feature
this has is you know, it it uses a query
tool. So, you can put in there that you
know, I want every road that shows this
much percent of alligator cracking
highlighted with a list and you can run
reports and it'll actually give you
written reports using uh the database so
that we can see. Um I know it's I I I'm
very excited to use it. Um but, I I I
don't have it yet. I I don't think this
is something that anybody should think
is um you know, a waste of any type of money. I think
this is one of the most exciting
projects and programs I'm going to use
and I think it's really going to help me
because when people ask, "How did you
select the road?" We're using our data
at hand now and Mike Serone and people
in the field. But, this is going to give
us analytical software. We're going to
be able to tell how we're doing on our
roads and how our programs are going and we're going to be able to keep
histories of what we're doing easier
than we do now. I think it's going to be
fantastic for everybody. Yeah.
We would have spent more in past years
sending somebody out of payroll dollars
to do the evaluation, put a numeric
value on it, have to key it in, and then
do a less sophisticated analysis than
what this is going to provide us.
>> 100%. No, there's a reason why I asked if you go
to the next level, you know, keep adding
on as you as you as you go through the
program in this year and if you want to
expand, you should
you know, if it's beneficial keep
expanding. It gets going to sort of the the true purpose of helping us with
managing our our streets.
Yeah, I mean um
I American can attest to one with the
police department and GIS. We you know,
the department of engineering has not
scratched the surface of what we can do
with GIS and the more we can, the better
it's going to help everyone. Um and this
is our really our our jump into the GIS
uh for A. So, hopefully you know, we're
lucky to have Matt here uh now at city
hall because he's really an expert at
it. Um so, I'm I'm looking forward to
it.
It's really good.
Um Mr. Waller, could you help me
understand why in November we paved the
roads and we got to go through winter
with the salt and uh and um plowing and
all of that and then comes spring and um
come the spring times, we have back to
the potholes. I mean, I don't understand
that. Could you help me understand that?
So, we don't we we have a set route.
Usually we pave try to do it by November
15th. So, the paving season usually is
April 15th to November 15th and we track
what we're doing. So, right now we have
a very rudimentary GIS database that you
can go on. If you go on the department
of engineering website, you can see
everywhere that we've paved in the last
15 years. We don't pave a road twice
within a year. We actually because of
bond law and everything,
um it's every 10 years you're only
allowed to pave a road every 10 years.
So, we really have to try to stretch it
because if you're going to use capital
uh borrowed money, that's that's the
rule for it. It goes the same with
federal aid projects. So, we really have
to track it so that we can see where
we're going. But, the potholes usually
99% of the time we're not paving a road
and then filling potholes on that same
road in that period. And the asphalt is
not susceptible to salt. We do have
issues with sometimes with concrete
where we put down a concrete sidewalk or
a ramp and then that property owner
would salt it and we have an issue with
that. But, have you seen areas where
we've paved a road and then it's been
Yes. Yes. Well, if you would let me know
those areas, we keep 10% 5% of these
projects for retainage to fix areas like
that. Um so, we're holding that for last
year's program. So, if anyone ever has
areas that you think the you know, the
workmanship hasn't held up like it
should be, that's why we hold that 5%.
And 5% might not sound like a lot of
money. It's a multi-million dollar
project. So, the number is usually
around a quarter of a million dollars
that we hold for up to a year to make
sure that their work uh meets it. We did
have uh some issues in some of those
spots with like crack seal uh and we're
working with that company now. They're
coming back in the spring to fix that.
Crack seal is kind of a finicky. So, uh
usually asphalt we don't have that
issue. Uh the other problem that we do
have with asphalt just so everyone's
aware is
to try to keep up for the demands of the
city, we are no longer doing full
reconstruction.
So, a full reconstruction would mean you
go down 6 in.
You hit the base. You make sure We're
doing a lot of 2-in mill, 2-in
replacement and the rule of thumb is for
every inch you put on top, it's a year
for the cracks to mitigate through. So,
that's why the crack sealing program is
important is that we really want to get
a good wearing surface and then once the
cracks come in, we want to address the
cracks.
Um
So, I don't know if that answered your
question. If you ever find something
that we paved and then it started to
deteriorate, please let me know.
Anyone else? Any other questions?
Oh. Oh.
Uh thank you, Mr. Waller.
Very
informative this evening.
Um I see a lot of people when they're
pushing their knees down the catch
basins. I usually stop and yell at them.
Uh uh just because I'm I'm putting them
out here in the city and then there's
the backup
>> Keeping them clean is is very important
as well. Right.
Um
seeing no other questions, uh
I'd like to close out
public service and utilities. So
Second.
All in favor? Aye. Thank you.
So, I'd like to call to order
city development and planning. We have
eight items for discussion tonight.
First of which is the award bid contract
for the Jay Street connector to Carver
Construction Inc. in the total amount of
$3,874,174.
Mr. Waller. Thank you.
Um this is a long time coming project,
probably one of the most exciting
projects uh in a long time in downtown.
Um it was the um cornerstone of the
city's DRI announcement years ago.
Um if you were there at the the big
black box when uh Governor Cuomo's sign
was there,
um this is to connect essentially city
hall and Little Italy to the Mohawk
Harbor area
uh on a new Jay Street connector. Um the
connector will run between the car wash
and the Union College athletic fields
and college campus.
Um we have our agreements with Union
College. We um have our environmental
done with the DEC and then we bid the
project. We did the seeker if you
recall. Mhm. So, we put it out. Uh we
had I think four bids. The bids were
varied um but, we did get a low bid
within the estimate from Carver at $3.8
million.
I will pass this out. I
meant to include, but it was not but I
did not want the paperwork to go.
Um this is a bid analysis and
recommendation. I will forward it to the
clerk's office for inclusion in the next
packet just to make sure it's available
publicly. But, what this is is it's the
just a recommendation that states that
they they went through the bid and the
items were um
were within line. The big uh variance if
you were to look was the environmental.
Um we worked with and Metroplex and the
DEC on this site. But, a couple of firms
they had been
in questions about the environmental so
they put some big numbers there to cover
themselves, whereas Carver we've done a
lot of work with the city and Metroplex.
We believe they put in a more
um
streamlined bid understanding that we
have taken care of the environmental
risks associated with the project. Um
[snorts] so, this is it. We're looking
to start as soon as possible. We're
hoping this project can get done by
November because it is a very unique
project where essentially it is a
sandbox. They will be not working in
traffic for 80% of the project. They
will As you know, the road is closed so
that they can work and build most of the
roadway um without any interference from
the public. And then the last 20% of the
roadway um will be only affecting Union
College and the car wash, and we have
plans to then communicate that to all.
So, we're hoping for a quick turnaround
on this.
Thank you. Questions or comments?
Mr. Whalen. Thank you.
Excuse me, thank you. Um as far as did
Is it decided that the walking part of
um
Roger Hull Place would now be closed
off? Is that part of this?
So, part of the real estate uh
transaction was that Union College would
be transferred that property. However,
Union College has not shown or proposed
anything that closes that road at this
time. It's not to say that they cannot
in the future, but at this time they
have not. So, it it's not a when this
opens, that road closes. You know, they
have a new president on board. They're
going through, and I haven't heard
anything about them officially closing
Roger Hull at this time. Have you? Have
you?
No. Thank you.
Any other questions? Mr. Whalen. Mr.
Whalen, um this bid came in 6.5% below
the engineer's estimate.
Is that a concern? No.
I I have I don't have any concerns with
it. Um one of the reasons being is that
when they do
We have a couple of projects that
usually go like this. Usually
our numbers are usually 10% lower than
the engineer's estimate. The reason
being is engineer's estimates are based
off of the New York State contract
averages.
Um that's how engineers at this level
will estimate projects. So, that average
is an actual statewide average. So, it's
not only the Albany area, but it's
Dutchess County, Orange County, Buffalo.
And the prices tend to be a little
inflated. Um so, that's where we have to
kind of put in We had a project not
similar to this in size, but it was a
drainage project over on the north side
of the city, Wyoming Lancaster. And the
estimate came in at $800,000. And I said
it's a $500,000 project. And they said,
"Well, our number says $800,000." I
said, "Well, your numbers are not
correct. It's a $500,000 project." We
went out to bid, it came in at $475,000.
But it's just it's just
DOT numbers are high. Over the last
couple of years, how do you see your the
change orders
over the last couple of years? Okay.
Have you seen a lot of change orders
being requested or it's
>> No. I mean, change orders are solely by
would be solely by myself or or you
know, if there's something were to come
up. We don't do a ton of change orders
on the paving program. Um a program like
this um
change orders would be usually only for
something if you encounter in the ground
that was unforeseen.
But this project scope is pretty narrow
and and tight. There's not really much
that you can actually change. So, it
would have to be something that was
unforeseen.
Okay. Thank you.
Hearing no other questions or comments,
is there a motion? So moved. Second.
All those in favor? Aye.
The next item is the award bidding
contract for the crack sealing of city
streets through
2026 to City Mark Striping LLC in the
amount of $183,750.
Mr. Whalen.
Uh this is our annual maintenance crack
sealing program. Um
we do this every year. It's the first
line of defense against roadway
deterioration.
Um the list
uh we had several people come out. The winning low bid was the group that
we used last year, uh City Mark. We had
no issues with City Mark uh
on the project, and we have no reason
not to recommend them.
Thank you. Any questions or comments?
Mr. Whalen.
>> you mentioned we have used them before
in the year last year. No. Was it Was it
the first year that you used them last
year? Last year was the first year we
used this group. Okay. Um yes.
Thank you.
Hearing no other questions or comments,
may I have a motion? So moved. Second.
All those in favor? Aye.
The next item is the award bidding
contract for the 2026 City Chip Paving
Program to Callanan Industries Inc. in
the amount of $3,146,809.90.
Mr. Whalen. Okay. This is our annual
chip paving program. This program is
solely paid through the Consolidated
Highway Improvement Program. That's what
the CHIPS acronym is.
Um
I wanted to award this last week.
Typically, we have this awarded, but it
is uh dependent on the state budget. Uh
I did speak with um the mayor we're
moving forward with just to talk about
We want to move this forward. Uh this is
not a signing of a contract, but we
really need to get The bid came in 30
days ago. We want to have this on the
in in process because we're already a
little bit behind. Like I said, we like
to usually pave from April 15th to
November. And um I'm hoping that the
state budget gets passed uh as soon as
possible because this is relying on
state funding. From all uh the DOT
sources that I have talked with, they
have not heard about any cuts. This
funding amount This does not anticipate
any increases. This is if everything
stayed at its current level.
Thank you. Um would that be a more
appropriate question for finance just
any stipulations with us doing that
ahead of the budget? I know you said
that there are no impeding changes. Um
it seems as though we're hedging
>> [clears throat]
>> God forbid something happen.
Hopefully, you'll move it ahead tonight.
Get approval a week from tonight.
Uh that's still subject to the final
adoption of the state budget. So,
they keep saying all the way who knows
adopted. They've been doing extenders.
Uh but this doesn't seem to be any point
of contention. So,
comfortable moving ahead with these
numbers.
And
I just asked the council at this point
to support it.
Um Mr. President, you Uh Mr. Whalen,
you're concerned about You want to award
this because then you want these prices
locked in at this rate at this point
because it was put out to bid
and open for over a month now. Correct.
And I did speak with our purchasing
director. It is possible that I could
get a letter asking them to hold their
pricing, which most likely they will
because they want to work with the city.
Um
However, it also sets us back um with
time, which I'm really not I'm I'm
trying to buy any week we can to move
forward.
Thank you. Any other questions or
comments?
I'll move this. Second. Second. All
those in favor? Aye.
And last item for the Mr. Whalen, award
bidding contract for the city police
department generator replacement to S.W.
Burke Electric LLC in the amount of
$339,000.
Thank you. Um as stated, our our police
department has
two generators, uh one functioning, one
uh original to the building that is in
place. They're both located in the
basement. Um the generators uh require
diesel fuel. The diesel fuel is in an
underground tank outside of the building
in the sidewalk. The tank has been uh
flagged by the DEC for being removed. Um
so, we are complying with that, and
we're working on a removal program right
now. We actually bid it, but the bids
were um higher than what we would like.
We only got one. We want to see uh if we
can, you know, clarify that and get it
out. We've been working with the DEC on
this project. Um so, what we want to do
is this is a multi-phase approach. What
I've been going on is that the police
department, you're going to be seeing me
come in with a lot of requests over the
next two capital seasons for
improvements to the police department,
which is still very much original to its
1970s mechanicals. Um these generators
are taking up valuable space inside the
building. Uh I would like to utilize
that space to replace the old electrical
switch gear. So, what we're going to do
is award install a new generator that is
located outside of the building within
an above-ground fuel cell, nothing in
the ground. Um once this situation is
installed and active, we're going to
remove all the old generators, and then
we're going to come in with an
electrical
uh capital request for next year to put
in a new electrical system, and that way
we can abandon the old electrical
system, which is outdated. After the new
electrical system is in place, then
we're going to look to do some HVAC.
But this is essentially the first domino
that's going to fall inside the building
to make room for the rest.
Um and uh these generators are
prepackaged units. We've been having a
lot of success with them. Uh they'll be
located outside uh the admin building
near the children's garden with a little
fenced enclosure.
Mr. Whalen. Yes, thank you. Mr. Whalen,
where is this funding coming from under
the capital the 2026 capital um
budget? Okay. Uh this funding is coming
through a capital code called police uh
HVAC and mechanical improvements.
It it this is not a 2026. It's not a
2026.
>> No. The 2026 actually, you haven't seen
any 2026 yet because I don't know if
we've actually solved and are ready to
move forward on. We have Right.
This is This is old capital. So, this
was budgeted under the 2025 2025 or
earlier, yeah. This is These are
projects that I'm trying to clean up.
>> Okay. Yes. Thank you for clarifying. I
thought it was a 2026, but it's not in
here. I I have not even started on 2026
yet. Okay. Thank you for that. Thank
you. Any questions or comments? Mr.
Chairs. Um so, this being the the lowest
budget you received on April 1st, what
were some of the hang-ups that you
received from people that were proposing
budget? Was it working with the DEC in
compliance with the diesel from for the
generator? What was the issues that you
were seeing while we waited so long to
get someone to give you that? Cuz you
said the numbers that you were receiving
Oh, oh, you're talking about for the
tank?
>> Yeah, yeah. For the tank removal, we
only got one bid. Okay. And we think it
was because um we weren't fast enough
with responding to questions about the
bid excavation. So, what we're doing is
we're putting all the questions that we
were asked about the removals into the
base bid, and we're putting it back out,
and we're going to act Usually, we don't
actively solicit to companies. Um we try
not to We use Empire Bidnet and and
other programs, but in this case, um to
have a number come in that was above our
estimate, and it only be one bid, it's
very hard to recommend to the council
something like that. So, we want to try
again.
Thank you.
Any other questions or comments? Hearing
none, may we have a motion? So Second.
All those in favor? Aye. Thank
you.
The next item will be a discussion of
the city code chapter 161-21,
public collection and disposal of solid
waste, next steps in the bulk sticker
trash program.
Um if you can all recall, we've been
making a good headway in these
conversations. Uh this meeting we will
be having a update from Mr. Lunn I think
with regards to restructure and next
steps moving forward.
Thank you, Mr. President. Um
uh I took this one short notice, so
forgive me. Uh Paul wasn't able to attend. Um we are
coming up with some numbers that uh
hopefully will be favorable to the
council to make a decision on uh two-tier system of garbage. Uh you know, recommendations coming from
the uh garbage uh we're going to say a
45-gallon can is uh acceptable. Um we we
like the two bulk items once a month uh
per household.
Uh the second tier uh looking at, you
know, a
uh possible take all on on the second
tier. Um and see what fits the best. Uh
we also got to think and remember that
when we implement the two-tier system,
that we have to look at what our finance
department is capable of and our
taxation department with the uh
we're currently
uh only able to take one tax bill in at a time at a certain rate. When we
change that rate per property,
um we may have to look at getting a
uh separate software system for OGS to
implement that. Uh there's a RPS uh
delay from the county that that pretty
much lags us about 3 months.
Um
with the sale of a property, which would
cause a problem if somebody didn't want
the second tier moved into that and was
getting taxed for it. So, um we're there
is a few hurdles to look at, and uh you
know,
time
timetables of when we can implement
these systems.
Um but I I think the the beginning is
quantifying garbage and uh you know,
starting at the beginning of
uh what the expectations are from the
council uh and the mayor of uh
you know, how much garbage that
we are allowed to create and and throw
out. Uh and then the second tier. Uh
looking at pre-numbers now, you know,
we're at an eight-digit operation,
uh currently looking at
uh downfalls, you know, possible
shortfalls in the five-digit numbers uh
you know, all we're looking at today.
Um you know, that could go up, you know,
if things don't change
um
ba- based on what we see, you know, from
the data.
Um and I'd be happy to answer anybody's
questions that that you have.
Uh thank you, Mr. Lunn, for being
present. I'm definitely to be very
honest, disappointed we don't have any
numbers in front of us. I think at this
stage very much expecting to have those
to consider. I can very much understand
um that we are compiling a lot, um but I
think we we just need to make sure we
have all the information in front of us
to make the best informed decisions
moving forward. Um with that being said,
I would you mind taking the first
question? Um just speaking to your just
confidence in the two-tier system. I
know you've said but let's make sure we
have clear tangibles. Do you feel
confident that the two-tier program or
two-tier approach will work for the
city? I I I 100% back a two-tier system.
I believe it's the fairest way to go. Um
it it does uh
you know, there's there's pros and and
cons to everything we do.
Uh the system we now have uh is
the easiest to enforce. Once we go to a
two-tier system, we're going to have to
look at using technologies, AI
technologies of which property um you
know, has uh
the second tier and giving us the best
efficiency. Um you know, in trying to
keep it keep the uh
sanitation department as efficient as
possible. Uh it also uh promotes uh you
know, doing a two-tier system like this
promotes recycling, which we can't
predict you know, maybe I would say uh
half of the households that currently
recycle in the city. Um we're going to
see that increase because they don't
want to buy a second can or, you know,
make that that larger investment. With
that, the
uh recycling costs the city uh I believe
$76 a ton versus $58 a ton for
uh waste disposal. So, it costs us get
more now to get rid of recycling than it
does to uh get rid of waste. So, that
will be numbers that that we'd have to
we we don't have da- data on. We we
collect all our data Every All garbage
goes in the one truck and it gets thrown
away. We know uh
what districts make what. Um we we can
track that, uh but we can't track right
now what households make, you know, how
much weight. So, um
having a dedicated fund where the
uh if possible, revenue overflows go
into uh for the the following year, you
would then have a better idea after
implementing the first year, um you
know, how much you you overran, and then
that could be credited to the year after
and and balance it out. So, it is going
to take a learning phase to get
to a two-tier system,
but I'm confident that we can get there.
I I do think that it's going to take
some time to implement, and it wouldn't
be this year. Um
but it would have to be looked at in the
future. Um
and larger conversations would have to
be had between
uh inter- you know, departments here in
the city.
Thank you. Question or comments, Mr.
McGovern? Yeah, um prior conversation,
uh we had talked about um
50 gallons of container.
How is that uh I know in terms of our employees, how is that with the
union? Are they going to be, you know,
Right currently it's a 40-gallon, 45,
45-gallon.
So
>> So, can we ask him to ask him to go to a
50-gallon? How is that sitting with
them? Are they in favor of that?
The current contract refers to says
45-gallon, so that's what I asked be
included in this.
And our contract with Scotia
says 90 gallons per
but what it is, it's 45 for MSW, 45 for
recyclables.
Uh and that would just
have a level of consistency across the
board.
Um the the code also says that
we we accept anything from a 10-gallon
to a 45-gallon. So, uh you know, if
there is households that, you know, we
can look at, you know, a smaller can for
those people that
uh are not able to uh you know, carry
out that can.
» [snorts]
>> You know, if they only make two bags of
garbage.
I do think that in the rules and
regulations that we have to uh define
uh you know, what we want in the can.
You know, is it is it uh you know, with
an attached lid? Um
all garbage should be bagged.
And you know, so forth.
Those are some things I'm currently
working on,
modifications to the entire chapter
161.
Mr. McGovern. So, the proposal is that
we're staying at 45 gallons, and I'm
making it to go to 50 50 gallons. Uh
we're staying at 45. I would recommend
45. So, whatever can fit in that
45-gallon
container
will get put out.
And picked up. That's correct. Okay.
Now, you mentioned something there um in
terms of um
money rolled over into the next year.
But you're saying here you know, you
have to If you read the code, they have
that there. It it's supposed to have a
dedicated fund for any uh revenue that's
going in there, and I think that should
continue. Um so, if there is a you know,
if if we if we make it too much, if we
say
uh to collect for that second tier is is
way and and we overestimate it, uh based
on we don't know exactly what each
household's going to put out, um
we can then take that money and figure
out what what the correction is for
those families in the years to come.
No, no, no, I'm glad you brought it up
because this is a good opportunity for
us maybe to separate the um
the waste budget like how we do with the
um
water and sewer, and to have a
stand-alone
waste collection um revenue budget um
Which is what we've been trying to do.
The
fee uh we wanted to cover waste
collection.
Today, the waste fee is subsidized by
the general fund.
Well, that's what I'm saying. Well, this
is what I'm saying. This is our plan.
Talk about taking the surplus and
carrying it forward. There is none. It's
a structural deficit. Yeah.
So, I think we need to look at that
maybe in the next budget to separate
the funding for
ways. It would be an ideal idea to get
it going. We're talking about this
because he seems to be talking about
ways over the last several years, but I
think we need to So, we're talking about
it, we need to address it and get it
behind us. And maybe it's a good
opportunity for us to have a separate
funding
source.
Good morning, everyone.
Uh Mr. Chairs,
you had made reference to a shortfall of
about five digit figures. Can you speak
more to that? Uh I'm going to just say
that we're we're probably looking at
numbers that are in the red and we're
going to be looking for revenue based on
the current tipping fees
and what we have collected. Garbage is
not static. It kind of goes like this,
so I can't say it's absolute.
You know, everybody could stop throwing
out, but
what we've seen in the past is is a lot
of people move in the summertime before
they have their kids are in school,
stuff like that. So, we we know that
there's a heavy time coming also, so we
can we can kind of predict that there's
going to be some more
garbage being thrown out than normal,
you know, or or typical.
And follow up to that, so you and you
said there might be a need for a second
software system through OGS to work
everything out.
And I'm thinking just from what we've
done already, time frame wise, how long
would it take you to implement start the
implementation process of this two-tier
system? Say if we were to pass it today,
how long would it take you? Obviously,
that's not what's happening at the
moment, right?
So, so we'd have to come up with the
determinations of exactly what
the department needs to operate.
It's got to be efficient. It's got to
take in
It's got to offer the best services to
the community
and also use in what I think is going to
be integrated the AI software program
that identifies the properties that
for my garbage men, how many, you know,
is it a multi-tier or is it single-tier
directly, so then we can absolutely send
out notice of violation or no
concern that that their garbage is out
without you know,
illegal now.
And to finish this just cuz our time
frame is we had said
suspended the program till June. And you
may not have the answer now, but if you
could come back with a before you or Mr.
LaFontaine, just a recommendation
finishing out this year because as we've
continued to have these conversations, I
do believe it's productive. We're
looking at realistically things that we
can implement by 2027 for the year
assuming, right? So, how can we finish
out the last six months of this year
that's going to work with OGS workers
and that the union's going to be okay
with as well? Yeah, I apologize for not
being able to actually give them up a
time for the software system and all
that comes,
you know, with designers and you know,
going out to bid. So, there's there's a
lot of specs to go for for 2026, it's it's quantifying
garbage. It's putting limitations on how
much people are throw to be thrown out
in bulk items. And then
an educational program should be put out
for
what the expectations of the overflow of
those bulk items and how the public
should be handling them
is what I would recommend.
Mr. Lance, Mayor Mr. Mayor.
The simplest approach would be getting
the council to make a decision
what the quantity is. So, if you go with
the 45 gallon can,
the first can we pick up under the
current fee structure,
you can still reduce that down to say
that's [clears throat] going to be
five or six bags 13 gallon or whatever,
so we can still pick those up. People
who want the additional
service
can be charged and then
look at it as the simplest thing is
today we pass out the stickers that go
on the cans for recycling is we put out
the sticker
that designates the house is having a
has paid the higher fee so that they
could put out two cans that we would
pick up.
And again, as Mr. Lance talked about,
there's still a lot of variables in some
of that. What do you do with the bulk
items? How do you handle that?
But we could start to phase some of that
in
relatively quickly
building in
flexibility and then also having just a
learning curve of how quick people adapt
the
process and
again, as opposed to the city buying the
cans, we say there's a designated can
and work with
you know, some of the local hardware
stores where
people want to go and buy it, they buy
it.
Again, have to set the standard on it
for does it have the lid? Does it have
the wheels?
Other features that make it more
functional for the crew in the street.
I think before I think to that point,
Mr. Engert was talking about those
efforts as well. You want to take a
moment? Yeah, so I think
I definitely agree with Mr. Lance that
we need to quantify garbage. I think
at the last committee meeting we
stressed that. I think we also need to
stress for the remainder of this year
after June like Mr. Chairs was saying,
what are we going to collect for bulk
because once that expires,
we're going back to the sticker program
where right now we're just collecting
everything, which I think like you said
is not sustainable.
Um
to the mayor's point about cans and
working with local hardware stores, the
city of New York,
they partner with Home Depot
to have the city seal painted on garbage
cans that they sell in the store.
There is data that we could do that and
partner with them, but I think that's
more of a long drawn out process that we
can look forward in the future. But I
think for the short term, we definitely
need to focus on like you said,
quantifying garbage, quantifying
jackpots, and then, you know, if we talk
about 2027, 2028, 2029, where do we go
from there? So.
And I'm a fan of Lowe's, so we have to
Mr. Mayor. Yeah, so I have to be careful
what I'm saying.
Yeah, thank you. I'm glad that you
brought it up and saying that because
that's what New York City has and these
hardware stores will supply the can with
the seal.
That's something that we can we can tap
into when that comes to that.
Actually purchase that at their cost and
have them
Um Mayor, you talked about
track. How do we track these? If you
were to go with this tier one, tier two
system,
are we going to be putting software
technology in place to track show up to
my place? How would you know that I am a
tier one, tier two?
You don't. My simple thing is you don't
have a sticker on your can, you're tier
one. You have a sticker on your second
can, you're tier two.
>> So, then okay, so then you're required
to have a sticker to identify your your
level. So, that would be the simpler
way. So,
council puts a fee on the sticker that
goes on the can so that you now qualify
for twice the amount of garbage as the
regular household.
>> Now, the reason why I ask is because,
you know, our staff are there. I mean,
we cannot put more on them. They're they're hustling and bustling to
get that can into the garbage and move
on to the next house. To add more stuff
to them is kind of like compounding
already that they're taxing with. The
Mr. Walls talked about
working with Civil.
The
presentation was done in the cycle
before with the University of Albany.
It's using some of the similar
technology
and those two companies talking to each
other
to be able to process that. So,
University of Albany is not just looking
at the garbage at the curb, but looking
at litter on the street, uh
other maintenance and code violations
that would be
uh
>> [clears throat]
>> people's front yards, how do you
automate some of those notices? What we
found in the past is if we send out a
notice for people who
have
bushes that aren't cut or long grass, we
get a very high compliance rate with
just
reminding people that they should be
doing it differently. And then it's how
do you focus the resources on those
problem properties or property owners
who drive our costs because they're not
picking the stuff up or they're cleaning
the building out, putting the jackpot
out there, so we're expecting us to pick
up a couple tons of material uh
once a month.
And you Mr. Chairs.
So,
could you Did you have a question?
Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Did you have a
follow up? Yeah, I do I do have a follow
up if you don't mind. Yeah, Mayor, I'm
glad you touched on that because this
ticket here that we had rolled out a
couple years ago, this is a parent
ticket to the police department. It did
mention littering and over bulk of
trash.
Can we
tap into Civic to work with the police
in order for this for this ticketing
system?
That's part of the But that's part of
the thing. How do you automate that and
be able to get it generated
reduce the manpower so that you
Everything still requires like a human
review. [clears throat] So, somebody's
got to sit and
look at the photos, look at the stuff,
but today we send one person out look at
it, they write it down, they go to the
next house. This year you can
scan 100 houses,
you know, in a very short period of time
and identify those that are in need of
color
a polite reminder and then
those that don't comply with that then
we become more aggressive in our
follow-up. Yeah, just to get address
some of those first some of them right
as highlights. So we just need to tap
into the service
so they can get the next one before I if you don't mind.
So since we're look like we're moving
forward in in a positive direction here
in terms of addressing this verbiage,
should we
move forward in terms of
rescinding the sticker program because
the timing we have to look at the timing
also because June 2nd and we want to
give ourselves enough time to what do we
need to do? Public hearing? Do we need a
public hearing to rescind that?
And to bring that, you know, get that
behind us and move forward into this new
program. Mr. Ryan. Yeah, to answer that
question, if you're going to rescind
the, you know, any amendments to chapter
161, they're going to have to be via
public hearing. And and if you res-
change anything,
obviously you're amending the code so
that requires public hearing. So the way
ahead is really the question I was going
to ask is that as as Mr. Ryan indicated,
he's been working on sections of the
code that are going to have to be
changed and we can we legal office can work with Mr. Ryan on getting that
done.
Your moratorium or suspension expires on
Sunday, June 14th regarding the sticker
program.
So I'm hearing here is a tier one
program and a tier two program. When do
you want to implement that tier one?
When do you want to implement tier two?
And what and and to your question, Mr. Ryan, you
know, what do where does that leave the
sticker program? Do we leave the sticker
program phasing out at the end of the
year or
create, you know, what the guidance that
the council has to give Mr. Ryan and the
legal department at this point is what
do you want to do? You want to do a tier
one, tier two with an effective date,
you know, January 1 of 2026 or an
effective date before that and or you want to
you know
rescind the just out out rescind the the sticker program. But what are you
going to put in its place and when do
you want that phased in? So
what we need from the council, Mr. Ryan
and legal to in order to draft something
up so at your next meeting you have
something
for in the code in front of you
and then go through the public hearing
process and I can go through that, Mr.
Chairman, just
regarding the timelines later on.
But what we need is when you want that
started under
you know, tier one, tier
two, what does that include? When does
that start? And what what does that mean
for the sticker program? Uh did you
follow Mr. Ryan? Yes. So
thank you. Thank you for clarifying
that. So as we move forward and we're
going to be adopting, hopefully, tier
one, tier two. And as we rescind the
sticker program, I think we should do
both at the same time with Mr. uh
Ryan
and the finance team
and corporation council's and our
council is incorporate all at the same
time because you're going to need a
public hearing
to amend chapter 161 and at the same
time you need to do all in one roll out
one. So I I think we should do both at
the same time rather than doing rescind
one and then go back two weeks or four
weeks and then have to go and amend it.
So I think we need to
put it all together and do one
public hearing and amend it so that get
the language in at the same time. Thank
you. Mr. Ryan. Yeah, and just to follow
up on that, just to clarify so
everybody's on the same page as far as
the hearing schedule and when this has
to roll out regarding the deadline.
So
you know, next committee cycle we'll
work up a draft for for for for the
council to take a look at. At the next
committee cycle, which is on May 4th,
you'll review the draft and then pass
out a resolution calling for a public
hearing for May 26th.
That resolution calling for the public
hearing will be on
May 11th.
And then at the next committee cycle,
which is May 18th, you'll have a second
look at the draft
and then
the after the public hearing, which will
include the new language as well as the
repealed language to be taken out if if
that's what the council wants,
it can all be part cuz it's all going to
be part of one chapter 161.
Then after the public hearing, there is
a if there's a committee cycle after
that on June 1, so based on the comments
you hear from the public, you'll have
another opportunity to look at the the
proposed order ordinance, pass it out
committee. The next the next city
council meeting is June 8th and that is
before the deadline, which is on Sunday,
June 14th.
Thank you, Mr. Chairs.
It's a lot.
Possibly Mr. Ryan, you got a lot in
right there. So first I I want to stay
on point with that. With this looking at
the timeline that Mr. Ryan just laid out
for us, would your team be able to get
the council those numbers that we're
expecting today before May 4th
committee cycle? So this way we can
actually review those numbers as well so
we can make if we're going to put it all
into one public hearing cycle, I feel
and I'm not speaking for council for
myself, I would like to have those
numbers so we can better review and
understand that we are going to move
into this tier two, make that decision
that same day. I have no problem
pressing forward and I want to make that
informed conversation decision once we get to that point. So
if that's something your team could do,
I would be in favor with Mr. Ryan moving
forward with the code change as well.
I appreciate that question and
my blunt answer is no. I really think
that there has to be internal
conversations with our taxation
department
of how this money is received and then
build out. Currently,
if somebody doesn't pay a bill, it goes
onto the tax roll.
Two-tier system you having municity and
our software system limitations.
Currently, I think we've got to get over
that hurdle
unless we rethink it and simplify the
system of uh
and modify the code later on.
Also, that the
161 chapter 161
with the rest of the code is is a
disaster, you know, it's it's old and
hasn't been revamped. I want to put it
together in in one orderly fashion that
will last uh quite a few years and and
this council can be proud of. So
I would say it that timeline for me is
unrealistic and I need to
you know, further data from the
council you know, on proposals for
what I would like to do into
what everyone wants to do in their
chapter 161. Uh just for example, we had
uh code enforcement administrative fees
were raised last year but
uh nuisance administrative fees
still remain at $50 admin fee, which
doesn't cost the cover
operational costs. So there's things
like that that I
need to be considered. Would they be put
in? Would they be approved and and then
go forward from there? So I I think
going a little deeper with the timeline
would be more realistic and then
implementation
I think it would be
2027. Okay. So how long projectively and
I appreciate you being honest, thank you
first off, would it take for your team
because we are up against that timeline,
right? June 14th in this room, we pushed
this back. You all got a late start to
this year anyway on top of everything
else, the nonsense that we dealt with.
So what can we what can we expect from
you as a council timeline that's going
to be realistic for you to put that
together and I appreciate the fact that
you want to help us put something that's
going to be long standing in the city
for code that I think hasn't been
updated since like 1979. So it's like,
you know,
what what time frame would you need to
get us those numbers? Um
I I would say an extra 30 days would
uh work wonders.
I I would recommend that
if it's if the sticker program, you
know, has already been
you know, extended 30 days, is that
something there we could go forward and
do another extension on and
it's up to the what the council Mr.
Mayor.
Okay. What numbers are you looking for?
My position has been the council has to
make a decision on quantity.
You seem to be moving closer to the 45
gallons. If you can do that,
we can move forward [clears throat]
on a
fairly simplified basis and still
building some flexibility in it.
The
I'm not looking to buy the cans from the
city.
You know, we can say that here's the
standard can, you can get it at Home
Depot
for city residents and Carl's Jr. and
the discount at Lowe's just outside of
the city.
But
people can work from that and again
commit to some level of flexible
enforcement so [clears throat] that
we're using common sense there. So if
somebody goes a little bit over 45
gallons, we're not giving them a hard
time, but if somebody is putting out two
tons of material,
they've got to pay for it. Right.
So right.
So if I can going to I'm sorry, but I
think similarly, I think we sort of
getting away and I appreciate the level
of detail you are providing. I think
it's clear to point out that there are
two separate functionalities at this
table. We as council members legislate.
The mayor's office is responsible for
operating. So, I think with this how
this situation was presented to the
council is the language in the city code
is unclear for me to implement
throughout the city.
Is that accurate, Mr. Nick? Correct. So,
as we are continuing forward in this
conversation, I think we're getting
closer and I think with tonight's
conversation, my expectations as one of
seven votes was to give you the go ahead
out of our committee to start building
that language for the potential public
hearing later on.
Um,
I think my comment directly to you, Mr.
Lund, is can you just simply build a fee
structure for these two tiers
and I understand how you implement it is
going to be complicated, to say the
least, but that very much is a
consideration outside of the council.
I'm confident we can come up with that
in 2 weeks.
yeah. Thank you. Um, any
other questions or comments?
I do. Mr. O'Brien. So, we're talking
about the 45-gallon that we're going to
require that the homeowner purchases,
that we're going to have to need to add
Sorry, we're going to need to add that
into 161. Yeah. Yeah, this is going to
have to be amended. It's all It's all
going to be forbidden. As Mr. Lund
indicated, it's going to all be part of
the whole big package. You know,
obviously the [clears throat] the emphasis will be
on
the number of cans, etc. You know, the
immediate but we're going to be working
on that. So, yes,
to answer your question, you will
require that to be amended along with
other items. And then in terms of if
someone refused to purchase or not
purchase, is there a violation? Will
there [clears throat] be a fine attached
to that as part of the I would, in the
interim, do a conversion to bags so that
we The ideal thing is that they have a
45-gallon can out there, but if they put
whatever the council decided, six or
seven bags out, we would pick that up.
Something that is close to the capacity
of the 45-gallon can.
So.
you're you're not required to
purchase a can with a lid? Not
initially. Not initially? There'd be
that phase-in to
So, we'll we'll need to add that in
also. We We can We can address it in
tiers so that that phased-in as various
parts of the the code are phased in. So,
we can hear that over with Mr. Lund and
Mr. Lafond on that, but we can tier that
in. And I think for any violations, we
already have that and that if that's
what Mr. Lund was talking about about
kind of upping, you know, for whatever
reason that that fee was
not in the part of the table of fees
increased a couple years ago, so that
can be dealt with as part of this
omnibus package.
Um, Mr. Wiggins. I have
I I can talk a little bit if you need to
increase the fee for the garbage
section, right? But in terms of a
nuisance, that's a different thing, but
I remember when I was piloting a fee
increase, I did reach out to Paul and
team
and asked to sit down and to meet as
part of the budget team cycle where we
increase the fee and nobody from OGS sat
down with me. No, I said we did, but
uh, code enforcement only.
No, no, we talked about nuisance fees.
No, we did not. We It was never It was
never brought forward at all. We did
talk about code enforcement. We did talk
about police and all of that, but the
fee was not
directly nuisance You know, I don't I I
don't think ever you should have a split
different fee for one department than
there's the other. It's based on the
cost of operation.
Why would the cost of operation for
nuisance be any different than code
enforcement? So, them being grouped in
just because they're under OGS and and
building department being all over here
in City Hall
is is uh
Well, at that time we were doing Yeah.
At that time we were going department to
department so to kind of
look at the fees and
correct them.
So, we can do it. I reached out to you
and we can we can come
>> absolutely. And we did that for the code
enforcement only. I
And come up with a with a new fee
structure for
the ones that we missed Yeah,
absolutely. the last 2 years and we can
correct it. I I I think
what I'm looking at is proposing an
entire
a tiered system for
enforcement for, you know, hopefully
that a you know,
a first tier would be like an
administrative fee, the second tier
would be the administrative fee plus
a fine on top, third tier, you know,
each violation in the 18-month period
would would would go up on a property
that was not complying so we can
actually start to gain compliance.
Um, I see too many people come in and
just pay the admin fees and and you
know, they know their tenants are doing
wrong. We want them to manage their
properties and that's we want good
property managers out there. Um,
and secondary to that, I see a lot of
landlords that were um
uh,
issued violations for what their tenants
put out. So, so they're they're the ones
paying the violations for, you know, So,
we we really have to have education for
the landlords and you know, the
single-family homes here in this program
to be successful.
So, so let's let's discuss that and we
can
discuss that and then I'll bring it to
the council and discuss and move forward
with amending the fees for the Let's do
some lunch. We can all sit down and have
lunch. What time is it?
That would be a great idea. Yes. So,
I'll meet with you, Mr. O'Brien, Mr.
Wiggins, and then Mr. Ingram.
Um, I just think the language needs to
be clear because summer is much shorter
than winter and we do have a lot of
seniors that have to put out their
garbage. And we had a gentleman that
just came to the council last week where
in the wintertime he can't get to his
garbage cans. So, I think everything
needs to be clear and followed so that
we're not only recognizing
um
our youth and middle age, we also have
to consider our seasons.
Individuals where they have to put their
garbage out and be considerate of of
them also. Yeah.
Mr. Ingram.
So, I think the the discussion has been
very productive. I just think we've gone
Not to your respect, Mr. Lund, we've
gone way full circle. To well put.
So, I think that, you know, for the
remainder of the year past June 14th, we
have to do something with bulk. We can't
go back to
like we are now collecting everything.
So, if we were to implement a 45-gallon
can,
if that's, you know, 45-gallon can is a
45-gallon can, that's what you get. You
could put a smaller can out like the
mayor said,
but up to a 45-gallon can and then,
you know, how whatever we decide on
bulk, if it's one, two, whatever, but I
think for the rest of the the year, we
have to decide that because
like you said, it's not sustainable
right now. And if we keep going down
that road, it's just going to keep
getting worse and worse and worse. So,
then if we were talking in 2027 to make
these radical changes, I think that's
great, but I think for the the current
time period and the schedule that Mr.
O'Brien outlined, we need to make a
recommendation for that just so that
we're ready for June 15th after the
deadline.
Mr. And I currently apologize Mr. Turner
for patiently waiting.
for a chance
I've said this before, we have one time
to do it right and we're going to do it
right. I I firmly believe that. So, I
don't think we need any numbers in 2
weeks and and
I personally appreciate everything that
you're working on and doing. It can't be
easy on top of all your other
jobs that you have to do. So, I I I
think we need to just slow it down a
little bit if we're not even thinking
about implementing anything until 2027.
Get the numbers right
once and for all. Do it once and for
all.
And again, I agree with Mr.
Payton, yes.
Um,
the fact that we really
» [laughter]
>> that it's not sustainable to pick up all
this bulk moving forward and
from June on, I don't think we should
rescind it at any point
for the rest of the year. We have time
to talk about it how, you know,
especially we need to address the bulk.
So, we really need to
besides the 45-gallon can and the two
cans or even three cans should should
different buildings want.
Again, what they're going to pay for to
pick it all up. So, I think we I don't
think we should rescind that at all.
Um, I know we'll have a lot of extra
trash
when we go to pick up cans that
residents are using now and on
appropriate on the tops or whatever. And
I know when one of my cans breaks, I
always have to put a sign on it, "Please
take the can." So,
um, those are my just that, you know,
again, I I
want to reiterate the fact that
we want to do it right and and we're on
a we're on a very clear path, I believe.
Mr. Ingram. I'm sorry.
I assume the council has
asked come to agreement on the bulk
items of picking up two bulk items once
a month.
Is that
That's what I heard.
So, it's my concern with that is
how do you communicate that to the public where we're now
restricting it, putting it on certain
days, if there's a process for how we
can properly inform the community
because I imagine on top of not having
that
software, that CTG software, now CTG
software now,
that is
on top of everything else burdening your
staff more. So, could you even
enforce that? Well, got to answer. I
know confidently you couldn't. So, if we
continue throughout the year limiting it
to one per pickup, I think that
streamlines it and then the new year we
can roll out as aggressive as an
approach. I I agree with that limiting
it to two per month.
Okay.
I'm sorry. Go ahead. I I I was just
going to say and and I don't know if
this
rolling around the thought here that our
qualifying garbage
and instead of in this year
we you know implementing the second
tier, I don't know is it possible to
open up the sticker program for the rest
of the year to to address the additional
bulk items
for
those properties and say hey, we've got a plethora of stickers to to
give out and if it it would help us get
rid of these stickers also. So, I don't
know you know, that's
an idea that anybody's welcome to
Mr. Evans. I just think it is important
to get the numbers because the council
president asked for the numbers weeks
ago. And I think that any department
that we ask for numbers or anything
from, I think the council deserves it.
No, you're 100% right. I do apologize.
The the numbers are in the budget. So,
if you look at the budget is what we
budgeted for and and the only numbers
that really don't have is what we've
spent this year. All right, so
it it it's hard to quantify
it it's all it's all fluid right here
because we don't know what comes from
your house, your house, your house, your house, right? So, we're
you're all charged the same. So, I can't
say that I'm going to predict that
30% are going to want this bulk item
program. I don't know what that number
is actually going to be, right?
We don't collect data on everybody's
household. So, it's hard to say
this is what the number's going to
This is the exact number that you have
to charge to the second tier.
Do you understand? I understand what
you're saying, but just like a just a
little demo of something that you was
going to get us in two weeks, that's a
start. I will give it to you. Thank you.
Mr. Mayor.
What numbers are you looking for? So,
what if the one in can cost
other factors and looking to how to do
this as simple as possible starting off
is to
again the council has to set the
quantity
and whatever you do with the bulk items,
is it one to two, whatever, but put
those basic parameters in
[clears throat] place and then we're in
a much better position to do some of the
estimates and extrapolation in terms of
actual cost and there is the factor
ideally if everybody
got the cans
it does increase the amount of time
that's going to take to pick up the
garbage because you got to go pick up
the can, bring it to the truck and then
bring it back where today with the bags
they can bring it directly to the truck,
drop it and then move on.
And
those numbers
there's really no good way to do an
estimate.
But so let's say respectfully didn't
send a few emails, one of which this
morning just outlining the parameters
where around the tier one, tier two cost
structure, the amount of tonnage tonnage
that we expect
and then the gaps and projections for
fiscal year 2027. And unfortunately
those were not received. Now, I think at
these conversations we can either harp
on what we don't have or proceed forward
with what we do. And I think the
conversations tonight were still
extremely valuable. I think being in the
committee, not discrediting all the
other voices, we do have to progress
forward. This meeting does have to end
tonight.
I would say
Mr. Lon, you've been incredibly
detailed. I appreciate your time.
But I would say consider to just the
members of the committee
what are we comfortable proceeding with?
And I would say my recommendation is to
Mr. O'Brien's earlier point building
that draft language for consideration. I
think building upon Mr. Muveran's point
of also preparing to resend the bulk
sticker program. Mr. Lon, I don't think
that would fall favorably on anyone to
extend it.
Even if we're trying to get rid of get
rid of the stickers, that is my personal
opinion. I'm welcome anyone else's. But
sincerely, I believe the community is
going to want to see what those cost
projections look like
regardless of our confidence and then
because this is a consideration they're
going to have to make.
And then what that protects us with is
then for our future budget
conversations, a lot of what has held up
increases in fees has just been our
confidence in the program. And if we can
confidently
renovate or update this policy, I think
that then puts us in a better space to
understand all right, what are the
conversations going to look like in
October and November ahead of time.
Mr. Muveran. Just to summarize and I
appreciate uh the committee for this.
So,
prior discussion we were talking about
allow two bulk items per week
or
per month.
And then we talked about the manpower.
So, if I were to put out across the city
two items every household one time per
month
the manpower behind that versus putting
in two items every
pickup cycle
wherever it is free.
It's
hard to say because bulk items are are
so different, you know, from a couch to
a vacuum cleaner, you know, and so hard
to say. I think the
mayor keyed on the
a key point of
garbage is going to slow down when we go
to a dedicated can. With the 45 gallon
can, they're heavier. My guys are used
to winging bags, you know, and and
throwing the bags in the lighter cans.
And when we go to a heavier,
more durable, more reliable can,
we are going to see garbage
slow down which is going to drive up the
cost of operation. So, well, how how
long it's going to take extra, I don't
know. How many more people we have to
put on the route? But you know, these
are all things that you know, are
variables that will lead into like I
said it
you know, having [snorts]
shooting a reasonable number that that
works for us and the public and then
having a dedicated fund for those over
you know, let's shoot a little high and
then you know, if it's in the dedicated
funds the money goes to rolls over to
the next year to
supplement that department.
So, I'm good with that. So,
we have the the agreement that we can
move forward two bulk items per month
and then anything over that is a
violation. We're going to need to work
with corporation council to what what
that violation fee is attached to that
at that point if you go over your two
bulk item per month and then stick with
a 45 gallon dedicated can and with with
a limit.
And I think on the tier one which is
basic like we get charged right now,
tier two is added charge. So, that's
what they're focusing on the fee for the
tier the tier two. Tier one is my
understanding that will be the basic
fee.
Every year up or down this highway every
week is. So, I think
we need to narrow this down and simplify
the fee that we're asking for is tier
two. And if we're going to agree to two
bulk item per month and then if there if
there's a violation on that then
we need to work with corporation council
to agree on a fee and I you know, that
could come from
you based on you know, your field work,
how do you what you think is a
reasonable fee in terms of that that
violation and the administrative costs
for that waste to collect. The best for
the public is you know, like I said
having AI technology [clears throat]
notify that that is a violation and we
pick it up at the time we see the
violation. If we have to go back and
send a separate truck like we were doing
under the sticker program the cost of
enforcing it goes Double cost, yes.
Doubles the cost. So, I agree with that.
Mr. Mayor.
The other component I would submit to
the council for your consideration is
to what what Mr. O'Brien outlined is
changing the code and there's a it's a
new more cumbersome process to do that.
Within those changes and we've done it
in other areas of the code
where if you want to change the fee or
change one item, you can do it by
resolution.
So, that the code
99% of it is fixed in law and if you
want to change it you got to do the
public hearing, you got to do the public
notice, you got to do it. But if you're
changing
one small component of it you can do
that by resolution and it builds
flexibility in it. So, if we get down
the road, some of this you might want to
increase the number or you might want to
decrease the number and to do it again
in the most expedited manner and one
that simple and straightforward.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Sears, Mr.
Andrew. So, just quick based on what
I've heard the mayor say for the last
two months and see what you guys would
you guys be comfortable with the six,
seven bags you would quantify that and
that's I'm just me myself and you saying
six or seven like that, but six or seven
bags
would be manageable for you guys to get
that done as long with the two bulk
items and also Lon had spoke about the
time bringing right you guys are the
only ones that have to get the job done,
you don't get to come back the next day.
Would that be manageable or do you feel
that that would be
too much? Well, I'm just saying you
know, obviously everyone I agree with
putting out six or seven bags.
Thank you.
Mr. Andrew. I am in agreement with you,
Mr. Muveran. If we go to two bulk items
a month in a 45 gallon can, I think
again if we stick to simple for now and
then we can roll out
the increased fee schedule by
resolution, that at least helps get our
guys on board. It starts the process and
we can move forward.
Yes.
>> [snorts]
>> Perfect.
>> [clears throat]
>> So, is that a motion?
for what?
Well, not motion, but how we're going to
proceed. So, Is that interpreted by Mr.
Walsh?
It gives Yes.
The the commissioner
and legal, the framework in which to start drafting
the ordinance.
Perfect. Sorry. Expectation is to have
that back at council for 2 weeks.
>> 2 weeks, we'll have a working draft for
you. And at that point, you can tweak
it, change it, and then at that time you
can call for the public hearing for
March 26th
at the council meeting of March 7th.
Perfect. Mr. Ingram? Just to add to
that,
other members in the committee, I think
we should put in there has to have a
lid. Um Kevin, must have a lid, yes.
Must have a lid. The garbage must be in
bags. The lid must be attached. Um I
don't know how you feel about wheels.
Um
Well,
but
most of most of these cans come with
wheels, but sometimes accident may
occur.
But that I think definitely a lid
attached and definitely the garbage has
to be in bags in the can.
Yes. Also, that will be a grab. But
whatever we're discussing here, this is
only for one unit. So, if there's a
two-unit, you're allowed four bulk
items, two cans for garbage, solid
waste, one for recycling. and two for
recycling. Correct. So, we might want to
capture that in the in the drawing.
Right. Yes.
Perfect. There are no other questions. I
think this is good.
Heading in the right direction.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Walsh. Thank you.
sir. Yeah, thank you. Get her
to sit down if anyone has another
question.
Thank you, Chris. Thanks, Chris. Thank
you. I will will talk to you guys on the
fee structure.
The next item is a reminder to amend
section 9-2 of this county code to
increase the membership of the downtown
special the assessment district board
from 9 to 15 members and to amend such
membership qualifications. There will be
a public hearing on April 27th, 2026.
Any questions, comments?
Hearing none,
uh the last two items, I believe, are
for executive session. However, I do
want to clarify item number seven just
identifies proposed settlement. I just
wanted to expand that is a settlement
involving
um Andre Porter.
Uh corporation counsel is not here to
tell you and to explain that any
further.
I mean, but that that is a settlement
with Andre Porter.
Is that
executive session?
Is there a motion to go into executive
session?
So, we're going to wait for them to
validate that they can. Okay. So, at
this moment, I'll entertain a motion to
enter executive session. So Second.
All in favor? Aye. Hearing
executive session, members of the public
will have to
» [music]