[1:23] [music]
[9:59] » Mhm.
[10:57] » [music]
[19:54] » Mhm.
[20:01] » Good evening. I'd like to call to order
[20:03] the Schenectady City Council Committee
[20:04] for Monday, April 20th, 2026. The first
[20:08] item will be a presentation by the
[20:10] Cornell Cooperative Extension.
[20:12] So, I'd like to invite both of our
[20:13] guests up.
[20:15] We have a beautiful microphone.
[20:17] >> Fantastic. So, we also have to scroll on
[20:19] our slides. Is that okay?
[20:22] We want to
[20:24] We can share the mic. Do you want to
[20:25] bring it up here?
[20:35] All right.
[20:36] Are we good?
[20:37] Hello. Good evening. Thanks for having
[20:39] us today. We're really excited to share
[20:41] our project with you and talk a little
[20:43] bit about more about how we can
[20:44] incorporate the city into this. My name
[20:46] is Kayla Picarero. I'm the recycling and
[20:48] composting educator for Cornell
[20:49] Cooperative Extension in Schenectady
[20:50] County.
[20:51] I also run the Schenectady County Free
[20:53] Cycles program.
[20:55] And my name is Yarrow Bautista. I mainly
[20:58] oversee the actual system
[21:01] and do various education sessions
[21:05] through Sycamore Collaborative.
[21:09] So, we are going to hopefully scroll
[21:11] through these for you all.
[21:13] And talk a little bit about why
[21:14] composting is important and why we're
[21:16] here to begin with. So, composting is an
[21:18] essential part of the nutrient cycle.
[21:20] You probably all heard of composting.
[21:21] It's kind of that dirty gross thing that
[21:24] has to do with food scraps and soil and
[21:26] how they're connected. Essentially, what
[21:27] we can do is is take food scraps that
[21:30] are destined for the landfill where they
[21:31] will end up methane and create all sorts
[21:33] of air pollutants and not so great
[21:36] stuff. So, we want to avoid that by
[21:37] diverting everything from the landfills
[21:38] and sending it to compost instead where
[21:41] it creates nutrient-rich soil amendment
[21:43] where we can use in farms and we
[21:45] particularly use it on school gardens in
[21:47] the Schenectady City School District and
[21:49] we're really proud of that initiative.
[21:53] I'm going to scroll.
[21:56] Um so, compost can happen at various
[21:59] scales. A lot of what we do is at the
[22:02] community scale.
[22:03] Um
[22:04] but uh for all intents and purposes, you
[22:08] would be participating in compost at the
[22:11] municipal scale which is
[22:13] definitely the most effective
[22:15] way to have composting because it
[22:17] ensures that access is
[22:20] to people throughout a community rather
[22:22] than um
[22:24] rather than
[22:25] sectional things like
[22:27] commercial composting which is only
[22:29] accessible to those that are able to
[22:31] afford certain costs and fees or
[22:34] individual composting which is only
[22:36] accessible to those that have the
[22:38] backyard space
[22:40] or the or the physical ability to be
[22:42] able to compost.
[22:47] So,
[22:48] question about how we do all of this.
[22:50] It's basically through the Schenectady
[22:51] Community Compost Project which is a
[22:54] partnership between six different
[22:55] organizations that are working together
[22:56] to bring composting to the residents of
[22:58] Schenectady.
[22:59] We are primarily focused on schools and
[23:02] community composting where most of our
[23:04] food scraps come from that we process on
[23:06] site at Fair Avenue Urban Farm in a
[23:08] composting system known as a static
[23:10] aerated pile or an SAP system or an ASP
[23:13] system.
[23:14] Our partners really quickly for you are
[23:16] [snorts] the Schenectady City School
[23:17] District's Farm to School program
[23:19] Schenectady Urban Farms, Schenectady
[23:21] Soil and Water Conservation District,
[23:23] myself at Cornell Cooperative Extension,
[23:26] Schenectady County and then Sycamore
[23:27] Collaborative which is where Yarrow
[23:29] works.
[23:30] Our compost system for more details, our
[23:33] ASP is a solar-powered composting system
[23:35] that can process up to 1,000 lb of food
[23:38] scraps per week
[23:40] and it's capable of, you know, diverting
[23:42] all of that waste by these aerated
[23:44] systems that you can see on the screen.
[23:46] There's a 4-month turnaround time on
[23:48] that nutrient-rich material. And like I
[23:50] said, the majority of our food scraps
[23:51] come from Zoller Elementary School. We
[23:53] also compost at two other schools and
[23:56] other districts and we bring it there
[23:58] and we process it on site. Everything
[24:00] that's turned over either stays on there
[24:02] or it gets brought back to the schools
[24:04] for the school gardens so that
[24:05] everything is full circle
[24:07] and that the kids are able to kind of
[24:08] get their hands in the dirt. This is
[24:10] what our system looks like when it's
[24:12] full of food scraps and carbon material.
[24:16] That's myself and the director of Soil
[24:18] and Water Conservation District standing
[24:19] on top of the pile and the handprints
[24:21] you see along the bottom are from the
[24:22] second grade class at Zoller Elementary
[24:24] School and they were able to come and
[24:27] put their handprints on and we dedicated
[24:29] it to them so that we could really
[24:30] incorporate the students. And then we
[24:31] bring the second grade class at Zoller
[24:33] every year to see the system and see
[24:35] where their food scraps go and and so
[24:37] they can understand exactly their their
[24:39] impact that they're having in the
[24:41] community which is really great.
[24:48] Um so, as as we mentioned before, Zoller
[24:51] Elementary is the
[24:53] major contributor
[24:55] to
[24:56] the actual composting system that we're
[24:58] managing over in the Fair Avenue Farm,
[25:00] but we also get input from the Sycamore
[25:03] Collaborative Food Pantry which is
[25:05] the destination for a lot is the biggest
[25:08] pantry in the in the region
[25:12] and it is where a lot of the regional
[25:14] food bank
[25:16] um
[25:17] grocery store pickups are destined to.
[25:20] So, we have various ways to try to
[25:23] reduce the the landfill input that is
[25:27] going in and instead take that over and
[25:29] compost it to shift that impact towards a positive impact
[25:34] rather than a negative impact. We also
[25:37] have community compost drop-off
[25:40] locations
[25:41] that are managed by Kayla
[25:44] in which we have over 110 families
[25:46] throughout Schenectady County that are
[25:48] able to divert their waste and they make
[25:50] an effort every single week to to do so.
[25:54] And we also have just lots of
[25:58] other occasional things like we support
[26:01] people that
[26:02] may have a lot of like fallen apples in
[26:05] the fall and things like that.
[26:11] Yeah, so
[26:12] as of very recently, we have been able
[26:15] to divert over 100,000 lb of organic food scraps which I'm going
[26:20] to ask you to clap for that because
[26:23] >> [laughter]
[26:27] » Um that kind of diversion is something
[26:29] that is unheard of for a community scale
[26:32] composting system. It takes a lot of
[26:35] effort and when you're considering that
[26:37] most of the things being diverted are
[26:39] diverted by kids from ages
[26:43] 5 to 11,
[26:46] it just really brings in the context
[26:48] that this is something that is affecting
[26:51] those kids in extremely extremely
[26:54] positive ways because they not only feel
[26:56] empowered but they are also learning
[26:59] critical skills like understanding the
[27:01] difference between materials and
[27:02] understanding this is
[27:05] something that is organic, something
[27:07] that is going to break down, something
[27:09] that is going to be able to
[27:11] after breaking down feed my very own
[27:13] school garden and feed other places
[27:16] throughout the community. They're able
[27:17] to see that with their eyes and they
[27:19] have multiple ways to kind of make that
[27:21] connection between the food that they're
[27:23] consuming and the food that grows
[27:26] on land.
[27:29] And um
[27:31] on top of that, it really brings in a
[27:33] lot of
[27:35] benefit to Schenectady in general
[27:37] because
[27:39] all of that material that would have
[27:40] otherwise gone to
[27:43] that would have gone to
[27:45] places before it going out to the Seneca
[27:47] Falls landfill is now instead not
[27:51] producing methane and other
[27:54] and or and other greenhouse gases that
[27:57] are that would have been harmful to our
[28:00] communities and our and our state in
[28:03] general
[28:04] and the grand
[28:06] and
[28:07] instead we are able to
[28:10] divert the amount of energy that it
[28:12] would take 31 homes for an entire year
[28:17] to power their homes. So,
[28:19] um
[28:20] for for context, we have also been able
[28:24] to even though this is a waste diversion
[28:26] effort to make sure that we're keeping
[28:29] as much food out of landfills as
[28:30] possible, we're also generating
[28:33] so much compost that again is then able
[28:35] to be utilized in various other spaces
[28:38] to bring nutrients those nutrients back
[28:40] to the community in community gardens
[28:43] and school gardens that are able to feed
[28:46] our kids, are able to feed
[28:48] our community members
[28:50] and are accessible.
[28:58] Okay. So, programming in general
[28:59] consists of a lot. We do a lot through
[29:01] the community compost project with all
[29:03] of our partners. We go into schools, we
[29:05] do waste audits, we go into businesses,
[29:06] we do waste audits.
[29:08] We support prospective composting
[29:10] programs which we're currently doing at
[29:12] right now in Scotia-Glenville doing that
[29:14] for another school. So, really excited
[29:16] to keep moving on and and trucking
[29:17] through and getting more schools on
[29:18] board.
[29:19] There's a lot more kind of buzz around
[29:21] the city school districts about what we
[29:22] can do there.
[29:24] We do all sorts of community drop-off,
[29:26] community giveback days. Just did one on
[29:28] Saturday at Fair Avenue Farm where
[29:30] residents come in and make a compost to
[29:31] bring back to their houses. So, we try to make it
[29:35] kind of community full circle events. I
[29:37] don't know if anybody's ever heard of
[29:38] pumpkin smash, but it's a really good
[29:40] time in November
[29:42] where we bring in the community to do
[29:43] things like this.
[29:45] We're smashing pumpkins and composting
[29:46] the waste. So,
[29:48] we have a full few weeks coming up of of
[29:50] educational programming for the kiddos.
[29:52] We're going to, you know, reach, you
[29:53] know, probably over 1,000 kids over the
[29:55] next few weeks, which is really
[29:57] exciting. So,
[29:58] we're really really proud of this this
[30:00] project.
[30:01] Um so,
[30:03] now we're finally at the part where why
[30:05] we're here tonight. So, where do we go
[30:07] from here?
[30:08] We are looking to do just everything
[30:11] that we can to divert food scraps and
[30:13] increase awareness and education. It's
[30:15] connected
[30:16] for a few reasons, right? We all know
[30:18] there's trash problem, right? Our trash
[30:20] day is is crazy driving through these
[30:21] streets, but
[30:23] we can support that by taking the food
[30:25] scraps out of that equation. So, if
[30:26] we're able to take that out, that's
[30:28] reducing the weight of the trash that is
[30:29] being put out, right? That's harmful for
[30:32] our actual people who are physically
[30:35] picking up the bags. We're reducing that
[30:37] weight. We're reducing the methane
[30:38] output from the landfills. We're
[30:40] reducing the actual amount of trash
[30:41] that's just sitting on the streets
[30:43] during trash day that's being picked up.
[30:47] Instead, we're giving people a little
[30:48] bit more autonomy and ownership over
[30:49] what they can do with their with their
[30:51] waste. Um so, composting at the
[30:53] municipal the municipal scale
[30:56] reduces strain on the system. It's a
[30:59] point of pride, honestly. Our system as
[31:02] it is right now is is really impactful
[31:04] and we could increase that. We're
[31:05] increasing it tenfold every time we just
[31:07] get one more sign up, right? Um we're
[31:11] expanding Schenectady's sustainability
[31:13] reach. Um
[31:14] I know that it's like a goal of the
[31:16] city, so it'd be really cool to partner
[31:17] on something like that. Um
[31:19] what we're looking to do and what would
[31:21] have the greatest impact would be to
[31:23] replicate our ASP system, our static
[31:26] aerated pile system, elsewhere in the
[31:28] city so that we can do the program even
[31:31] more, right? So, what we have at Fair
[31:32] Avenue, we serve 110 families. If we can
[31:35] serve more if we're not servicing
[31:36] schools, so we could certainly service
[31:40] quite a few hundred households out of
[31:42] in a system like that.
[31:44] And we are kind of looking for spaces to
[31:46] do that. We're looking for funds to do
[31:48] that. And the idea right now is that,
[31:51] you know, there's some spaces at
[31:53] Steinmetz Park in that neighborhood that
[31:55] would probably be a great place to start
[31:57] looking for that. Another benefit of
[31:59] that is some of the students in that
[32:01] area actually go to Dolly. So, what
[32:03] they'd be doing at school, they could
[32:04] actually take home and then their their
[32:05] families could be composting at home as
[32:07] well, which would be really neat.
[32:09] And we're we're looking to expand that
[32:11] way. So, educational efforts would
[32:12] continue with residents in that
[32:14] capacity. And then, if we were able to
[32:17] get a structure on site, we would be
[32:19] hoping that we would have a compost
[32:20] coordinator to then maintain that site
[32:23] and hopefully expand. So, yeah,
[32:26] the system is in the grand scheme of
[32:29] things, it's not crazy, you know, crazy
[32:31] number cuz you figure looking at around
[32:34] $20,000 to implement something like
[32:36] that.
[32:37] And the impact would be a few hundred
[32:39] families in that immediate area. And
[32:41] then we could offer it up to anybody
[32:43] who's willing to drive to that area as
[32:44] well, of course. Um and we're hoping to
[32:46] expand expand the program to kind of hit
[32:49] those marks and
[32:51] bring composting to more folks in City
[32:54] of Schenectady where
[32:56] we'd love to be more involved.
[32:58] That's all we have for you. Thank you.
[33:01] Questions or comments?
[33:05] Uh hearing none,
[33:07] I definitely appreciate you coming out
[33:08] to speak. Sincerely, having this
[33:10] presentation offers to your point, how
[33:13] do we reduce the strain on the system? I
[33:15] know you mentioned a few hundred
[33:17] families. Can you speak to what what in
[33:19] realistic metrics are for how many you
[33:22] can anticipate if the city adopted
[33:24] something like this in the first year?
[33:26] That is a fantastic question.
[33:28] Yeah. Um right now we have 110 and we're
[33:31] increasing about 200
[33:34] lbs. So,
[33:36] less than 1,000 would be another five
[33:38] about 500 households
[33:41] theoretically, depending on, you know,
[33:42] every household's different.
[33:46] And then I know in our personal
[33:48] conversations you talked about the
[33:50] differences between pick up and drop
[33:52] off. Would you mind just expanding on
[33:53] that? Absolutely. So, right now we have
[33:57] only pick up at the schools because
[33:58] that's our capacity.
[34:00] We have drop off in Central Park. We
[34:02] have two locations right now. It's
[34:04] really really convenient. 24/7.
[34:06] They're really nice looking drop off
[34:08] systems, if I do say so myself.
[34:10] And people are able to access them
[34:11] through a locked code and then they go
[34:13] and drop off their food scraps. And
[34:15] you're all welcome to pick them up in
[34:16] the truck, bring them to our static
[34:18] aerated pile system, drop them off, and
[34:19] process them there.
[34:21] It would be highly beneficial
[34:24] if we were to look at maybe a pilot
[34:26] program like Troy's. They did a pilot
[34:28] program from 2021 to 2023
[34:31] where they serviced 250 households over
[34:34] that period of time. They had a free
[34:36] base pilot program.
[34:38] And they were able to partner with Food
[34:40] Scraps 360, which is a local composting
[34:42] business. And they did a pick up
[34:44] program, which for a lot of folks is
[34:46] more convenient, right? You don't have
[34:47] to leave your house to drop off your
[34:48] food scraps. You just put a bucket at
[34:49] the end of your driveway.
[34:51] And they were able to fund that with a a
[34:53] matched USDA USDA grant. And that was a
[34:56] really successful program. So, there's both options, really.
[35:02] And the Sorry. No. Uh the last would
[35:04] just be any stigma associated with it,
[35:06] the smell. Can you just talk about the
[35:08] technology and how
[35:11] that's not the case. I'd love to talk
[35:13] about that.
[35:14] >> [laughter]
[35:14] >> Would you like to share about how close
[35:16] our neighbors are at our composting
[35:17] system? Uh 100%. So, we have, I think,
[35:22] three houses that are directly directly
[35:25] bordering Fair Avenue Farm on just one
[35:28] side. And on the further side, we have
[35:30] another house that just has a small gap
[35:34] between it and the location. Um
[35:37] there have been zero total reports since
[35:41] the the start of the program over three
[35:44] years ago. Um
[35:46] and
[35:47] many people are operating in the farm
[35:50] space
[35:51] on a regular basis. And there have been
[35:54] no complaints regarding to the smell
[35:56] because
[35:57] if the process is done properly, there
[36:00] are biofilters
[36:02] with all of the material being covered.
[36:04] And it being a static aerated system
[36:06] means that
[36:07] it is
[36:08] only really
[36:10] allowing for
[36:13] It's only really allowing for heat
[36:15] loving bacteria, which are the positive
[36:17] bacteria that are generally not going to
[36:20] create as foul of smells as something
[36:23] like
[36:24] um
[36:27] uh like anaerobic bacteria, which is
[36:29] something like if that if you were to
[36:31] leave something inside of a closed
[36:32] bucket for a prolonged period of time
[36:34] and [clears throat] you open up, that
[36:36] would be where you would have negative
[36:38] smells as opposed to composting, which
[36:41] is actively reducing that.
[36:44] Thank you. Um Mr. Doran? Thank you.
[36:47] Whereabouts in Central Park are these
[36:50] located? Sure. So, the composting system
[36:52] itself is on Fair Avenue at our urban
[36:54] farm. And so, we do have a drop spot
[36:56] right there. And then we have a second
[36:58] drop spot at the Sustainable Living
[37:00] Center, which is CCE property.
[37:03] Whereabouts is that in? Next to the
[37:05] tennis courts. Oh, sure. Okay. And my
[37:07] next question is, how many
[37:09] pounds do you think do you have a
[37:11] poundage of what you've collected so
[37:13] far? So, we just recently hit 100,000
[37:17] lbs of food scraps through the system.
[37:19] >> Who's at the 103? Yeah. Yeah.
[37:23] It's been a really great program.
[37:25] The community has kind of taken it and
[37:27] run. I just got three more sign ups for
[37:28] the community compost this weekend,
[37:29] which is really exciting cuz people are
[37:31] waking up now. Yes. Great. Uh if there
[37:35] are no other questions or comments, I
[37:36] think sincerely what your efforts have
[37:37] been able to produce over the few years
[37:39] at the community level is very
[37:41] commendable. I appreciate you demanding
[37:43] that appreciation.
[37:46] But only imagining what we can replicate
[37:48] at a municipal level, even with the
[37:50] monetary consideration towards the
[37:52] $20,000 with respect to our total
[37:54] budget, I think sincerely as we later
[37:55] addressed the concept of just waste
[37:58] collection and reuse, it is becoming
[38:00] just a growing challenge, not just for
[38:02] our system, but for our workers.
[38:04] So, I think considering these types of
[38:05] opportunities, it is a requirement and
[38:07] expectation not just for us, but for the
[38:09] next generation so we're able to leave
[38:10] them something usable as a product.
[38:12] [clears throat]
[38:13] Um so, thank you for your time. I look
[38:14] forward to presenting something with
[38:16] some findings for consideration at a
[38:18] future meeting, but thank you again.
[38:19] Thank you all so much. Thank you.
[38:24] So, at this time, we will have public
[38:27] safety. Uh so, I'd like to call the
[38:29] public safety committee to order. We
[38:30] have one item on the agenda, the
[38:32] Statewide Targeted Reductions in
[38:34] Intimate Partner Violence Initiative,
[38:36] STRIVE in year two grant. Uh it's
[38:38] Senator Vavulish.
[38:44] Good evening, everyone. Senator Vavulish
[38:46] here to
[38:46] present the, as mentioned, Statewide
[38:49] Targeted Reductions in Intimate Partner
[38:51] Violence Initiative, otherwise known as
[38:53] the STRIVE grant. This is the second
[38:56] year running.
[38:57] Uh
[38:59] To give a quick back brief on it, uh
[39:02] the governor has allocated money to
[39:04] equip law enforcement agencies, district
[39:06] attorneys, municipal services provide
[39:08] service providers, and other agencies
[39:11] necessary funding, guidance, and
[39:12] training to effectively respond to,
[39:14] mitigate, prosecute intimate partner
[39:16] violence through evidence-based,
[39:18] survivor-centered, trauma-informed, and
[39:20] culturally responsive interventions.
[39:23] It's a mouthful.
[39:24] Uh
[39:26] Ultimately, the county has been awarded
[39:28] a little over 1.1 million, which is
[39:29] going to be divided amongst uh our
[39:32] police department,
[39:34] uh district attorney's office, the
[39:36] county sheriff's department, uh county
[39:38] probation, Rotterdam police, and the
[39:40] YWCA.
[39:41] Uh again, this money's coming from DCJS
[39:44] for a contract period between April 1st
[39:46] and March 31st of next year.
[39:49] So, [clears throat]
[39:50] our portion, the Schenectady Police
[39:52] Department, is going to receive
[39:53] $338,433,
[39:57] which will go to support two dedicated
[39:59] detectives, one on days, one on
[40:01] afternoons,
[40:03] half the salary of one of our crime
[40:05] analysts, and
[40:07] other targeted overtime detail funding.
[40:13] All right, are there any questions or
[40:14] comments? Yes, Mr.
[40:17] Is this Is this part of the 2026 budget?
[40:20] This is This is Can we account for this
[40:22] in the 2026
[40:24] Say that
[40:24] >> Can we account for this in the 2026
[40:26] budget? Correct. The assumption was
[40:28] there.
[40:30] Thank you.
[40:31] To my knowledge, STRIVE is going to be
[40:33] similar to the Give Grants, and it's
[40:35] just not going away in the in in the
[40:37] foreseeable future.
[40:39] So.
[40:45] Hearing no other questions, going to
[40:46] have a motion to move this.
[40:47] >> So moved.
[40:49] Second.
[40:50] All in favor? Aye. Aye.
[40:53] Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, not
[40:55] you. Sorry,
[40:58] Um
[40:59] Second. Second.
[41:01] All in favor? Aye.
[41:03] If there is nothing else to fall before
[41:05] Public Safety, I call for motion to
[41:07] adjourn. So moved.
[41:09] Second. All in favor? Aye.
[41:11] Thank you, we are adjourned. Um just for
[41:14] clarification, the first quarter report
[41:15] and finances being pulled. We'll have
[41:18] this back at our next committee meeting
[41:21] once Mr. Guptamok is available.
[41:23] That's clarification.
[41:34] » [clears throat]
[41:36] » I would like to call the Health and
[41:38] Recreation Committee into order.
[41:40] We have one item on the agenda.
[41:47] Um the updated
[41:48] Riverside Park
[41:50] skate park funding.
[41:52] Mr. Williams. Thank you. And I had the
[41:54] opportunity to meet with Assemblyman
[41:55] Santabarbara last week. He's very
[41:58] excited to hear that plans to receive
[42:01] state funding are still progressing
[42:03] forward.
[42:04] I don't know what status the budget is
[42:06] to date,
[42:07] but Assemblyman wanted to kind of poll
[42:09] the council. I know we have a few new
[42:10] members.
[42:12] This originally was considered in
[42:13] December of last year.
[42:16] And there was activities currently in
[42:18] place.
[42:19] Park is not sanctioned, but there are
[42:21] skateboard activities currently
[42:22] underway.
[42:23] I'm so taking it upon ourselves to
[42:26] identify some funding streams that would
[42:28] allow us to just renovate that space,
[42:30] and then bring it up to code. And then
[42:33] potentially as the city's inaugural
[42:35] skate park,
[42:36] was a
[42:38] point of consideration that not only the
[42:40] neighborhood association would
[42:42] recognize and would appreciate, but also
[42:44] the skateboarding community.
[42:47] So, I think at this time, just wanting
[42:48] to see if there's still that continued
[42:50] sense of this collaboration with us
[42:52] continuing. I think the last thing
[42:54] Assemblyman Santabarbara would like to
[42:55] do is get funding for a project that
[42:57] nobody wants.
[43:03] Any questions or concerns?
[43:06] Mayor.
[43:08] Do you have any conceptual designs on
[43:11] this, or what dollar value are we
[43:13] speaking of? We had a capital budget,
[43:16] and the numbers internally looked at the
[43:19] existing facility is about 18,000
[43:23] square feet.
[43:25] Uh replacing it with what's a concrete
[43:28] structure,
[43:29] uh
[43:30] estimates run like $100, $110 a square
[43:34] foot. So, that gets you to just under $2
[43:37] million.
[43:40] They also talked about
[43:41] they want some type of restrooms there.
[43:44] Do you put them where the
[43:47] current skateboard park is? The uh
[43:51] full adaptive reuse of the old pump
[43:53] station still hasn't happened.
[43:56] And Stockade Association also has
[43:59] requests in for funding for
[44:03] a sidewalk replacement program. I don't
[44:06] know if they are withdrawing that in
[44:08] favor of this, or they're looking for
[44:11] simultaneous funding, cuz the likelihood
[44:13] of getting
[44:15] those two projects funded is
[44:18] realistically slim in any one fiscal
[44:21] year.
[44:22] Okay, I completely agree. Um I think
[44:24] it's not limiting ourselves just on just
[44:27] the interpretations that we have
[44:28] internally
[44:29] with respect to just the design specs.
[44:32] We did have a conversation with one
[44:33] potential vendor.
[44:35] I think
[44:36] most of the agencies that support these
[44:38] types of efforts do a design-to-build
[44:40] component. Uh one of the individuals
[44:43] was not able to provide us a design
[44:45] without giving them the like a lot of
[44:47] fee, which is between $15,000
[44:50] but was able to secure a tentative
[44:52] design, and that took into consideration
[44:54] having a concrete slab report. The
[44:58] estimates were around $100,000.
[45:00] Um based on the scale, I think they
[45:01] projected at 20,000 square feet.
[45:04] However, their recommendation was if you
[45:06] build equipment on top of it, um there
[45:09] are tremendous cost savings, especially
[45:11] since their facility is able to manage
[45:13] manufacture it internally. Um and they
[45:15] were able to provide a scaled approach
[45:17] of an investment of 100,000 to 300,000.
[45:21] Um and that was provided to the
[45:23] neighborhood association and the
[45:25] skateboarding community not as an
[45:26] official like design, but just as a way
[45:28] to kind of conceptually move past just
[45:31] our thoughts to seeing what it could
[45:32] look like in reality. Um so, I think
[45:35] Assemblyman Santabarbara
[45:36] had a consideration for around $300,000.
[45:39] And one of the final points is in these
[45:42] projects with municipalities, it is not
[45:45] a far-fetched to have a scaled approach.
[45:47] So, they often talked about how these
[45:48] projects are multi-year and just to get
[45:51] the process started. At the present
[45:53] time,
[45:54] no skateboarding activities should be
[45:56] conducted, and there are. So, I think
[45:58] how do we respect that they do exist and
[46:01] allow them to function in a manner that
[46:02] is both safe and accessible. And
[46:06] truly final point was with uh
[46:08] considerations to the restrooms, I think
[46:10] in the interim having a port-a-potty was
[46:12] something that everyone recognizes
[46:13] better than people
[46:15] just using the bathroom out by the
[46:17] trees. Um so, I think as long as we have
[46:19] something projected down the line, that
[46:20] the neighborhood association very much
[46:22] just recognized as long as we don't lose
[46:24] sight of that in the future, they could
[46:27] be amenable to just whatever we're able
[46:29] to do with that.
[46:36] If there's nothing further to discuss,
[46:38] um Mr. Toro. Thank you, um could we get
[46:42] a copy of those specs and costs sent to
[46:45] me for the skateboard people and the I
[46:47] would like to see it. I mean, if Mr.
[46:49] Santabarbara
[46:50] Angela
[46:52] So, this is
[46:53] Santabarbara can get I mean, the full
[46:55] amount. I mean, you know, and and the
[46:57] question always was is that really where
[46:59] we really wanted it? I know during
[47:02] the ARPA money, we we had a nice space
[47:04] for them, but they kind of like there,
[47:05] but so, I think it's a bigger discussion
[47:07] as well, but I would like to see at
[47:08] least what someone presented.
[47:11] Right?
[47:12] Um so, I think
[47:16] part of the consideration was how do we
[47:18] ensure that we're making the most use of
[47:19] time. I think in all of my
[47:20] conversations, I've been very
[47:22] intentional saying I'm one of seven
[47:23] votes,
[47:24] but how do we ensure that we are
[47:28] being amenable to the fact that we could
[47:29] get this funding, that we could not. How
[47:31] do we save time? Because essentially, we
[47:33] can still use part of the 2026 year
[47:37] the funding allows it if it
[47:39] comes into place at the right right
[47:40] time. Um I can share those with the
[47:42] council. I think just I move from a
[47:45] space of just wanting to be very
[47:46] cognizant of as soon as the city truly
[47:49] touches this,
[47:50] I think everyone can understand that we
[47:52] are still liable for anything that
[47:54] happens within that area, regardless
[47:56] whether signs are up there or not.
[47:58] >> [clears throat]
[47:58] >> Um so, I was trying to be considerate to
[47:59] Mr. Williams' kind of work volume, but I
[48:02] can absolutely share those. It's just
[48:03] nothing official has started.
[48:08] Mr. Abdellatif. Um so, you're looking
[48:10] for a support a letter of support, or a
[48:13] total for us to renew last year's
[48:15] resolution?
[48:18] Mr. Williams. I don't think that's
[48:19] necessary as long as the
[48:21] council in its current form is still
[48:24] amenable or in agreement [snorts] with
[48:25] us continuing on.
[48:28] So, with respect to Ms. Wiggins, Mr.
[48:29] Chairs, and Mr. Inger, any of this
[48:32] sounds as though something that you can
[48:33] see us still proceeding forward with.
[48:36] Mr. Assemblyman Santabarbara was just
[48:38] looking to kind of just re-engage with
[48:39] that. Understood.
[48:42] Mr. Mayor.
[48:44] But again, in terms of the city's
[48:45] priority, we still may need some money.
[48:47] Had conversations with the state
[48:50] legislators in terms of finishing some
[48:53] of the paving and street work adjacent
[48:56] to the swimming pool, tennis courts, and
[49:00] greenhouse.
[49:02] We may also need a little bit more money
[49:04] to finish the conversion of the
[49:07] casino
[49:09] in Central Park, which was
[49:12] Santabarbara was uh very instrumental in
[49:14] getting that. And then in this,
[49:18] again, Stockade Association has reached
[49:20] out looking for a sidewalk program. So,
[49:25] I don't know which one
[49:29] would take priority as opposed to
[49:33] and this is a limited pot of money.
[49:36] Mr. Chairs. Um folds, Mr. Brown, for
[49:40] part that Mr. Williams had asked you
[49:41] already. Just verifying for point
[49:43] clarification, do we need to do an
[49:45] actual renewal of the resolution as
[49:47] >> No. Okay. It can just remain there. I
[49:48] mean, you don't have to you know you
[49:50] give it it's there. It probably asked
[49:52] for that money.
[49:53] Okay. Just making sure that we're we're
[49:55] in compliance and doing everything. I
[49:56] know he's giving respect to himself and
[49:57] to Ms. Wiggins, but I want to make sure
[49:59] that if it needs to be done properly.
[50:02] Well, the the Assemblymember asked the
[50:04] Council President just to take a the
[50:06] temperature of the the Council if
[50:09] there was
[50:10] if we're not in support of it anymore,
[50:12] then we would have to rescind it. Um but
[50:15] if we're if the sense of the Council is to keep
[50:19] ongoing as it is, then
[50:21] the Council that resolution is not that
[50:23] old.
[50:25] Four or five months old, so.
[50:27] And
[50:28] thank you. And uh Mr. Mayor, um just for
[50:30] that I know we
[50:31] know what this grant is. I What is the
[50:33] amount that you uh we've estimated for
[50:35] the sidewalk replacement that they
[50:36] originally asked for from the Stockade
[50:38] Association comparable to the 300,000
[50:40] grant that the Assemblyman is saying you
[50:42] can get for the skateboard park.
[50:44] I don't know what the number is for
[50:46] sidewalks, what they're asking for.
[50:48] Well, I would say they're probably
[50:50] asking for all the sidewalks.
[50:53] There is not enough money for that, so.
[50:54] [clears throat]
[50:55] Got you.
[50:56] Thank you.
[51:02] If there's nothing further to come
[51:03] before the Health and Recreation
[51:05] Committee, I ask for a motion to
[51:06] adjourn. So Second.
[51:11] All Committee's adjourned.
[51:13] All in favor. I
[51:16] Committee's adjourned.
[51:19] I just want to like to call to the uh
[51:21] inter-order Committee of Government
[51:22] Operations.
[51:24] Seeing one item on the agenda, I'd like
[51:26] to recognize Council President Carl
[51:27] Williams.
[51:29] Thank you. Uh so this is sincerely a
[51:32] continuation of a conversation that we
[51:33] heard at I think
[51:35] two previous Council meetings
[51:37] uh with an individual, Mr. Sage, coming
[51:39] up and asking the city to endorse a
[51:41] project that will be coming through our
[51:43] municipality.
[51:44] This taking very intentional
[51:47] vantage point of the Underground
[51:49] Railroad and how it will cross through a
[51:52] segment of the city of Schenectady. Uh
[51:54] this was a two-phased approach, um part
[51:56] of which started and I believe Central
[51:58] New York, and the second phase is going
[52:01] to continue through uh the metropolitan
[52:03] area and carry forth through Albany,
[52:05] Schenectady, and out west to connect the
[52:08] two.
[52:09] Um
[52:09] I I have never heard of a byway before,
[52:12] um but I think if we have any
[52:13] opportunity to preserve history and
[52:15] culture, I think in a manner that just
[52:17] allows us to um further highlight just
[52:20] uh previous struggles and constantly
[52:23] that type of just legacy with Harriet
[52:25] Tubman and the Underground Railroad. I
[52:27] think it is our the requirement as
[52:29] municipality to really consider this,
[52:31] and he's very intentional in saying that
[52:33] these efforts from municipalities to
[52:35] endorse this go a very long way. So, I
[52:37] think they've already had 26
[52:39] municipalities sign on. Um there's
[52:41] nothing new, but sincerely our
[52:43] investment would help
[52:45] progress these efforts forward.
[52:47] You've heard the resolution support the
[52:49] Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad
[52:50] byway in New York State. Any question?
[52:54] Thank you. So, I spoke to the gentleman
[52:56] when he came that evening and
[52:59] steered him over to the library to
[53:01] visit Harriet and and Mr. Seward.
[53:03] He didn't know they were there. I did
[53:05] ask him about I know like um whenever
[53:07] you along the highway you see um
[53:10] Eisenhower, it's an Eisenhower highway.
[53:11] There's a lot of funding that goes out
[53:13] for it, and he said it would be the same
[53:15] opportunity here.
[53:17] Uh you know, there'd be funding and
[53:18] grants uh to help with whatever needed
[53:20] to be done. So, yes, thank you
[53:23] for bringing it forward.
[53:25] I think he said they acquired half a
[53:27] million dollars, and I don't think they
[53:28] have any other needs outside of that,
[53:30] but very much I think just having the
[53:31] support from local municipalities helps.
[53:36] Any other questions?
[53:39] Seeing none,
[53:41] do I
[53:41] have a vote Excuse me, a motion on the
[53:44] floor to support the Harriet Tubman
[53:45] Underground Railroad?
[53:49] Moved. So moved.
[53:50] It's properly said moved by Councilwoman
[53:52] Wiggins, properly seconded by Council
[53:53] President Williams. All those in favor?
[53:55] I I
[53:56] Seeing no other items on the agenda, do
[53:58] I have a motion to adjourn Government
[53:59] Operations?
[54:02] Second. All. So moved. It's moved by Councilwoman Williams, seconded
[54:06] by Councilwoman Wiggins. All those in
[54:08] favor? I. Government Operations is now
[54:10] closed at 6:04 p.m.
[54:13] I'd like to call to order Public Service
[54:15] and Utilities. Tonight we have a
[54:16] discussion
[54:17] uh from Mr. Rowan about the city's MS4
[54:20] program, Mr. Rowan.
[54:28] Thank you.
[54:29] Um
[54:30] I came to you guys last year with an I'm
[54:32] going to just want to push this button
[54:34] now.
[54:35] Sorry. Put this here. Thank you.
[54:37] Um
[54:38] So, every year I have to come before you
[54:40] and we talk about the city's MS4
[54:42] program. Um the New York State passing
[54:45] permit
[54:46] two years ago, so we're in year three of
[54:48] the new DEC general permit, which puts
[54:50] requirements on municipalities such as
[54:52] the city of Schenectady with regards to
[54:53] stormwater quality review and
[54:55] inspections. So, this is uh kind of an
[54:58] annual update to the Council, the Mayor,
[55:00] and then the city public at large.
[55:03] Um just so everybody is aware, our MS 4
[55:05] report, an annual report that's meant to
[55:07] be kept public, it is on the city
[55:09] website. It is currently on the water
[55:11] department website, but the water
[55:13] department website is probably the not
[55:16] the correct spot to be. So, I just had a
[55:18] meeting today with IT, and we're going
[55:20] to be looking to make a new stormwater
[55:22] page uh which we'll actually probably be
[55:24] able to do it this week on the
[55:25] Department of Engineering's website. So,
[55:27] we're really trying to get all the
[55:29] information that is required available
[55:31] online. We're also going to probably
[55:34] keep some of that information outside
[55:36] here at the clerk's office just so
[55:37] people are aware of illicit discharges
[55:40] and who they would call and the steps.
[55:42] Um we you know, we use the SeeClickFix
[55:45] system. We can still use that, but it's
[55:46] just getting the message out on how
[55:48] people would report spills and what
[55:51] information we have with regards to outfalls. So,
[55:55] everything's online uh on the city water
[55:57] department, and then later this week
[55:59] it's going to be moved to the Department
[56:00] of Engineering.
[56:01] Um the city did have an audit with the
[56:03] DEC on March 24th. We haven't been
[56:06] audited in several years. The DEC comes
[56:08] in person for the day, and they meet
[56:10] with city staff,
[56:12] uh and they go through our report, and
[56:14] they make comments. We have not received
[56:15] their comments yet, but I'm anticipating
[56:17] them as they're still reviewing them. Um
[56:19] and then as part of that comment period,
[56:22] they also go with us to our Bureau of
[56:24] Service, which is our main area where we
[56:27] have, you know, our our trucks and
[56:28] vehicles, and they do inspections on the
[56:30] catch basins and means and methods to
[56:33] make sure that we have all of our
[56:35] catch basins are clean, our trucks are
[56:37] not leaking, things like that, cuz it's
[56:39] all about keeping the the work areas
[56:41] clean. So, we have we have that going
[56:43] on. Um one of the things is we've had a
[56:45] lot of construction in the past couple
[56:47] of years. Right now, we're actually at a
[56:48] little bit of a wall. So, anyone that
[56:50] disturbs more than an acre has to have a
[56:53] stormwater management plan. That plan uh
[56:56] usually starts with the planning
[56:57] department. That's where, you know,
[56:59] projects start. Then engineering reviews
[57:01] those plans, and we go through the DEC,
[57:05] and we handle the permits for anything
[57:06] over an acre. Um right now, we have two
[57:10] active. The two active permits we have
[57:12] are the YWCA expansion and the Stockade
[57:15] on Washington Avenue, and we have a
[57:17] storage uh company on Watt Street, which
[57:20] we old parking lot that is at the corner
[57:23] of Watt across from um
[57:26] uh
[57:27] an industrial building that's right
[57:28] there by the bridge. So, those are the
[57:29] two active uh SWIPs that we have going
[57:32] on, and the Development Department is
[57:34] working right now with GE Vernova on an
[57:36] exciting project on campus that will not
[57:38] only require one acre, but they're
[57:40] looking to do with the Morris Turbines,
[57:41] so we're working with them on their
[57:43] multi-phase project on the GE campus.
[57:46] So, that's what's going on with regards
[57:47] to the SWIPs. Um
[57:50] Also, we are working with a consultant,
[57:53] MJ Engineering, and residents on the
[57:55] Hans Groot Kill and College Creek that
[57:57] was brought up by Union College about
[57:59] water quality
[58:00] um in the GE plot on College Creek where
[58:02] it's open. Um that project's been going
[58:04] on for a little over a year, but it's a
[58:06] very intensive project requiring a lot
[58:07] of field work. Um we've been working
[58:09] with consultants and using in-house
[58:11] staff to dye test, smoke, make sure that
[58:14] the goal is trying to find any older
[58:17] homes that may have tapped into a
[58:19] stormwater uh storm water a storm line
[58:22] instead of a sanitary line, which
[58:23] creates that cross-contamination.
[58:26] Uh the city of Schenectady is very
[58:27] fortunate that we have two separate
[58:29] systems, but a lot of municipalities in
[58:30] this uh state do not. They have a single
[58:33] system, which is one of the things that
[58:34] everyone is trying to eliminate. And
[58:36] then lastly, as part of some of our
[58:38] requirements, we will be inspecting all
[58:40] of our city outfalls. So, the city
[58:42] outfalls is is kind of what it sounds
[58:44] like. It is where
[58:45] um the stormwater meets another body of
[58:47] water. It's where it it it it comes out.
[58:50] We used to have
[58:51] over 75 outfalls, but we went through an
[58:54] audit internally working with a
[58:55] consultant, and we narrowed it down to
[58:58] essentially 35 outfalls cuz we were
[59:00] counting outfalls on the same
[59:03] stream,
[59:04] and we
[59:05] you don't need to do that. An outfall is
[59:07] at the end of the stream where you have
[59:08] it where where it daylights. Um so,
[59:10] we're working on that. And then and then
[59:12] part of this, too, is really working on
[59:14] the mapping component. I'm sure you saw
[59:16] up in the news that we're working with a
[59:18] group called Civil
[59:19] on on pavement management and software.
[59:22] Part of the Civil package is working
[59:24] with GIS
[59:25] uh and the mayor's team with Matt
[59:27] Douglass, and we are looking to um as
[59:29] part of the Civil package, uh what
[59:32] they'll be doing is not only collecting
[59:34] um data for the road conditions, but
[59:36] we're allowed two assets a year as part
[59:39] of that program. The two assets that we
[59:41] selected this year are curb ramps, which
[59:44] are required by the state for ADA
[59:45] compliance, and then we also selected
[59:47] catch basins. So, at the end of our
[59:50] civil audit, which Steve is working on
[59:53] this week, if you were ready, he's going
[59:54] [clears throat] to be driving. They're
[59:55] going to uh process all the data, and
[59:57] we're going to get geo locations of all
[59:59] the catch basins in the city, which
[1:00:01] we're then going to collocate with some
[1:00:03] of the existing information we have to
[1:00:04] try to start building a 3D map of the
[1:00:07] stormwater system, which is actually
[1:00:09] part of what they want to see. They want
[1:00:10] to see that you know
[1:00:12] uh if you pour something into a catch
[1:00:14] basin, exactly where that water is going
[1:00:16] to go, and vice versa, if we go to an
[1:00:18] outfall, and we see a white or red or
[1:00:22] some kind of a shiny liquid, that we can
[1:00:24] actually trace that back and find the
[1:00:26] source. That's part of what the program
[1:00:28] is.
[1:00:29] So, um a lot of progress that we're
[1:00:31] making. Uh also in the budget is an MS4
[1:00:33] officer. Uh that's something that I've
[1:00:35] been working with Paul on, working with
[1:00:36] civil service trying to bring someone on
[1:00:38] to handle this because there's other uh
[1:00:40] paperwork items and things working with
[1:00:43] uh one of the things we have to do is
[1:00:45] document all treatment basins, and and
[1:00:49] that that's another thing that we're
[1:00:50] hoping to do via mapping so that we know
[1:00:51] where they are. You know, there's
[1:00:52] underground units, there's private
[1:00:54] units. We really have to make sure that
[1:00:55] they are being maintained and kept in
[1:00:58] working order. Um and that's a new
[1:01:00] requirement that we're going to start
[1:01:01] working on as well.
[1:01:02] So,
[1:01:03] that is my update as uh as we're kind of
[1:01:06] like I said, and as required. If anybody
[1:01:07] has any questions, I'll be more than
[1:01:09] happy to answer them.
[1:01:10] Mr. Williams. Um
[1:01:12] thank you for that uh
[1:01:14] briefing. I think my one question is
[1:01:15] actually around the civil package. Uh I
[1:01:17] was trying to recall, Mr. Williams, I
[1:01:19] don't know if you can help me on Was
[1:01:21] there any financial considerations that
[1:01:23] came before the council for that, or not
[1:01:25] needed at this time?
[1:01:27] No. No, this the about the the civil
[1:01:29] package we paid for with our fees for
[1:01:31] service lines, and through um some of
[1:01:33] our existing codes because the platform
[1:01:36] actually crosses so many departments
[1:01:39] that we were able to use uh fee for
[1:01:40] service lines that were in budget. It
[1:01:42] was uh not uh an exorbitantly expensive
[1:01:45] program. It was
[1:01:46] Thank you.
[1:01:48] Uh Mr. Chaires. For the MS4 officer that you were saying you need, um do we
[1:01:53] have a financial a financial number that
[1:01:55] goes with that, any kind of Oh, it's in
[1:01:56] the budget. Okay. It is a position that
[1:01:58] is budgeted, but we are working with um
[1:02:02] civil service right now because what we
[1:02:03] need to do is change the job
[1:02:04] description. The position used to be a
[1:02:07] little bit of a lower level uh like an
[1:02:09] assistant engineer type position, but we
[1:02:11] really want to do is make sure that it's
[1:02:13] written that the MS4 officer is the one
[1:02:16] that is responsible for the program, and
[1:02:18] is not someone that just is responsible
[1:02:21] for the program to me. I want really to
[1:02:23] make sure that the person uh knows that
[1:02:26] this is their program, that they are
[1:02:28] They're not an an assistant. So, there's
[1:02:29] a lot of little language in there that
[1:02:31] if you've ever read a job description
[1:02:32] that says something like shall assist or
[1:02:34] shall hire, it's it's We're trying to
[1:02:36] make it so when we hire someone, we can
[1:02:38] say that
[1:02:39] this is, you know,
[1:02:41] this is this is your primary focus to
[1:02:43] make sure And we have consultants that
[1:02:44] we work with uh to help. So, we're not
[1:02:46] going to be putting somebody out there
[1:02:48] just, you know, like a babe in the
[1:02:49] woods. It's going to be something that,
[1:02:51] you know, we're we're going to give
[1:02:51] people resources to succeed.
[1:02:54] Um
[1:02:55] but I I just want to make sure that this
[1:02:56] is not a position that's solely written
[1:02:58] to be someone to help me, and then
[1:03:00] everything solely falls back to me.
[1:03:02] Mr. Thanks.
[1:03:03] Mr. Williams.
[1:03:05] What was being done before this grant
[1:03:06] came about?
[1:03:08] How was y'all conducting the data?
[1:03:11] Grant. Before before the MSG this whole
[1:03:14] thing that y'all doing, how was y'all
[1:03:16] keeping up with all of this stuff before
[1:03:17] that?
[1:03:18] >> So, we the MS4 program was always out.
[1:03:21] It was always MS4s, excuse me. No, it
[1:03:24] was always it was always something that
[1:03:26] was out there, but this new permit that
[1:03:28] came out in 2024, they'd been working on
[1:03:30] it for a decade. So, what essentially
[1:03:33] what was happening was this all the
[1:03:36] municipalities DEC In a perfect world,
[1:03:38] the DEC would be fully staffed to
[1:03:39] 100,000 people, and they'd be able to
[1:03:41] handle all these things on behalf of New
[1:03:42] York State. That's not what happened.
[1:03:44] So, what they started to do is push some
[1:03:46] of those responsibilities down on the
[1:03:48] municipalities. So, municipalities such
[1:03:50] as Schenectady became MS4s, designated,
[1:03:52] and it's our jobs to do essentially that
[1:03:55] effective rates. They passed
[1:03:56] legislation, we have to enforce
[1:03:58] legislation. With the new permit, they
[1:04:00] even pushed it even farther to say,
[1:04:03] "Okay, you approved uh for example, um
[1:04:06] we'll just use like a a Home Depot. Go
[1:04:08] to the Home Depot over on the Crosstown,
[1:04:10] and you'll go in, and they'll have like
[1:04:11] a retention basin. You'll see like a wet
[1:04:12] area, right? That retains all the
[1:04:15] stormwater from the parking lot.
[1:04:17] Under the old, it's your retention
[1:04:18] basin, you know? And now under this,
[1:04:19] it's the city has to go and inspect that
[1:04:21] retention basin to make sure it's
[1:04:23] working properly. We have to make sure
[1:04:24] that if a city uh if if the Galesi
[1:04:27] Group, they have a vortex unit, which is
[1:04:28] called it's a giant underground
[1:04:31] in the ground. We have to go and make
[1:04:32] sure that that's been inspected and get
[1:04:33] records of that. They're pushing more
[1:04:35] requirements down. So, we used to do
[1:04:37] these things specifically just centered
[1:04:38] around development of this more than an
[1:04:40] acre, but now it's even more active.
[1:04:43] It's "Okay,
[1:04:44] you did that, but now that they've moved
[1:04:46] on, now you're still responsible for it.
[1:04:48] You have to make sure that they're still
[1:04:49] responsible for it." So, it's just it's more essentially unfunded mandates
[1:04:54] on the municipalities, which is why that
[1:04:56] position is now needed is because it's
[1:04:58] going to be annual letters, it's going
[1:05:00] to be annual inspections and things to
[1:05:02] really ramp up to make sure that uh that
[1:05:04] we're there. And, you know, in the
[1:05:06] suburban areas, they have more of this
[1:05:07] because they have more new developments,
[1:05:09] they have more new treatments. We don't
[1:05:10] have a lot of these type of treatments
[1:05:12] in the city, but we do have some. And
[1:05:15] so, that's part of the mapping is going
[1:05:16] to be to make sure we map where they
[1:05:17] are, and then come up with a a a
[1:05:20] strategy of how we're going to document
[1:05:22] that the people are cleaning them, and
[1:05:23] then they're in in working order. And
[1:05:25] then we have to do that as per the
[1:05:26] report. And that section of the report
[1:05:28] it says
[1:05:29] uh if you were to look through it
[1:05:30] online,
[1:05:32] it has all these first-year mandates,
[1:05:34] second-year mandates, third, fourth,
[1:05:35] fifth years, and and how you build your
[1:05:37] program. So, by the fifth year, you
[1:05:38] should have it all built out.
[1:05:41] Thanks, Mr. Williams. Questions, Mr.
[1:05:43] Williams? Yeah. Um you mentioned uh
[1:05:45] paying uh all through the fees for
[1:05:46] service. How much are you paying on
[1:05:48] civil on civil things to do this pothole
[1:05:50] program? The civil pothole program? It's
[1:05:53] uh approximately $20,000. $20,000. So,
[1:05:56] you mentioned uh
[1:05:57] it's a pothole project, but they're
[1:06:00] focusing on uh curb
[1:06:02] and the What is it? Drainage? The man No.
[1:06:06] Okay. So, I'll I'll give you a You want
[1:06:08] to talk about civil for this one second?
[1:06:10] Okay. So, what civil is is civil is a
[1:06:15] essentially it's Google Street View for,
[1:06:16] you know, layman's terms. It's it's a
[1:06:18] Google Street View device with a lidar
[1:06:20] component, and lidar means uh it's
[1:06:22] essentially a survey device. So, um
[1:06:26] 5 years ago, 10 years ago, a surveyor
[1:06:28] would hold the device and have a laser
[1:06:30] and would shoot a point. All right? So,
[1:06:31] the point was from here to that point,
[1:06:33] and you would know the coordinates of
[1:06:34] that point. A lidar unit uses GI GPS,
[1:06:38] and it always knows where that component
[1:06:40] is because it's using satellites, all
[1:06:41] right? And then the component on top of
[1:06:43] the car, it spins.
[1:06:45] And as [clears throat] it spins, it's
[1:06:47] shooting out these lasers in a pattern,
[1:06:49] a huge pattern. So, as it's driving,
[1:06:52] it's actually sending out millions of
[1:06:54] points all around, and it's mapping the
[1:06:56] city.
[1:06:57] So,
[1:06:58] we're going to drive all 171 miles of
[1:07:00] the city, and we're going to take
[1:07:01] photographs, and those photographs are
[1:07:03] going to be with them with the laser
[1:07:04] group, all right? And we're going to get
[1:07:06] that back. Now, civil's main bread and
[1:07:08] butter component is that they focus on
[1:07:11] the ground. The data on the ground
[1:07:13] correlates with the cameras, and it uses
[1:07:16] AI to say, "That road looks like it has
[1:07:18] cracks. That data that is there looks
[1:07:21] like Yes, this is cracks. I can see a
[1:07:22] pothole is deeper than a normal." And it
[1:07:25] uses that, and it actually will make a
[1:07:27] color chart on the roadways of um
[1:07:30] distress. So, you'll be able to see the
[1:07:32] distress of the roadways. So, that is
[1:07:35] civil's bread and butter product. That
[1:07:37] is the base product. But, as a company
[1:07:40] that's also trying to make money, they
[1:07:41] came out and said, "Well, if we're
[1:07:43] shooting every point in the city, what
[1:07:46] else can we sell municipalities?" So, as
[1:07:49] part of that, they also allow you as a
[1:07:51] base package, and we're just getting the
[1:07:52] base package here, they allow you two
[1:07:55] assets a year.
[1:07:57] So, we have assets. An asset could be a
[1:07:58] fire hydrant, a sign, a tree, a manhole,
[1:08:02] a water valve, a curb. So, they have a
[1:08:04] whole list. It looks like a menu of
[1:08:06] anything that you can see that you can
[1:08:07] shoot with these lasers.
[1:08:09] Um so, we decided, like I talked about
[1:08:11] earlier, that really for
[1:08:14] criticalness right now is ADA because
[1:08:17] the CHIPS program relies on ADA. We have
[1:08:19] to update ramps and keep a collection of
[1:08:20] them. That's part of the principle. That
[1:08:22] changed about 10 years ago, if y'all
[1:08:23] remember. Our paving dollars don't go as
[1:08:25] far anymore because now we have to do
[1:08:27] ramps. 10 years ago, we didn't have to
[1:08:29] do ramps, so our paving dollars went
[1:08:30] farther.
[1:08:31] And then, it was the catch basins. The
[1:08:33] catch basins just so that we have our
[1:08:35] map so that we can put that as a check
[1:08:37] mark towards the MS4 program. Next year,
[1:08:41] with those two baseline checks, we're
[1:08:42] looking to do um right now, I think
[1:08:45] we're looking to do fire hydrants
[1:08:47] and street signs.
[1:08:49] So, then that will have uh an idea of
[1:08:51] where all the fire hydrants are in the
[1:08:52] city, and then our condition of the
[1:08:54] street signs so we can do that. And
[1:08:55] everything then goes onto a map. And
[1:08:57] that's where we're talking. We're
[1:08:58] working then with another consultant
[1:09:00] who's trying to build out our GIS
[1:09:01] platform, and we're going to have
[1:09:02] hopefully a public-facing one that the
[1:09:04] public can see, and a work-site one that
[1:09:07] city employees can see to use for their
[1:09:09] daily work.
[1:09:11] Um and that's kind of what civil is
[1:09:13] doing. Um
[1:09:14] I'm very excited about it because right
[1:09:16] now, the older way to do it, which we
[1:09:18] used to do for pavement assessment, was
[1:09:20] every 2 years, 3 years, someone would
[1:09:22] drive the city, and you would we would
[1:09:25] hire them, and they would look, and they
[1:09:26] would say, "We think this road is a
[1:09:27] condition A." It's a zero to 10 system.
[1:09:29] It's not really rocket science, but
[1:09:31] that's a That's how the system would
[1:09:33] work. And then you get graded on and we
[1:09:34] get a map and that's what we used to do.
[1:09:36] This system is going to be much more
[1:09:37] advanced than that. Also, we're allowed
[1:09:39] to drive the city as many times as we
[1:09:41] want. Now,
[1:09:43] you don't really need to drive it that
[1:09:45] much. So, what we're going to be doing
[1:09:46] is we're working with them and we're
[1:09:48] driving it now
[1:09:50] pre-paving. And we're going to get our
[1:09:51] baseline condition pre-paving. Then
[1:09:54] we're going to pave our roads with what
[1:09:55] we're talking about next. And then after
[1:09:57] we pave our roads in November before the
[1:09:59] snow comes, we're going to scan it again
[1:10:01] and we're going to use that information
[1:10:03] to pull together where our program is.
[1:10:05] And then we're going to work with Mike
[1:10:06] Serone, Chris Lunn, and OGS and we're
[1:10:09] going to track where potholes are being
[1:10:11] filled. We're going to plug that data
[1:10:13] into the AI and then we're going to use
[1:10:15] that to hopefully be able to [music]
[1:10:17] predict where the next roads are going
[1:10:19] to be that fail because we're using AI
[1:10:21] generated software.
[1:10:23] So,
[1:10:24] that's what I know now and I haven't
[1:10:26] even used the program yet. So, come to
[1:10:29] me in a year and I'll probably know a
[1:10:30] lot more. We're going to be working with
[1:10:32] them for a couple of years to really
[1:10:33] build this out.
[1:10:34] But, it's going to be a lot more
[1:10:36] transparent. You're going to be able to
[1:10:37] have a lot more information available.
[1:10:40] But, this this uh this
[1:10:41] So, this um
[1:10:43] this project will not include potholes
[1:10:45] this year
[1:10:47] and next year. This will what?
[1:10:48] >> This will not include include potholes
[1:10:50] this year. Well, never Oh, go ahead.
[1:10:52] Potholes is is a wrong Yeah, that's the whole concept.
[1:10:56] >> a pavement management system. With the
[1:10:59] whole idea is to prevent potholes. Okay.
[1:11:02] So, they should be better identifying
[1:11:04] where the pavement's going to fail
[1:11:07] and staying ahead of it in terms of the
[1:11:08] paving program or other than that
[1:11:10] maintenance techniques we can use. You mentioned base level. That's what
[1:11:14] we're paying $20,000. What what what's
[1:11:16] the cost for the next level
[1:11:18] if we can expand this project? Oh, so
[1:11:20] the base level means that you get all
[1:11:22] the data and then the two assets. So, as
[1:11:25] you go up you can buy 10 assets, but
[1:11:27] they charge you somewhere around $2,000
[1:11:30] somewhere more an asset. But, we didn't
[1:11:32] need the assets at this point. We really
[1:11:34] just want the paving data, which is
[1:11:35] included in the base. So, it's They're
[1:11:37] like add-ons. And you know, the other you know, powerful feature
[1:11:41] this has is you know, it it uses a query
[1:11:43] tool. So, you can put in there that you
[1:11:45] know, I want every road that shows this
[1:11:48] much percent of alligator cracking
[1:11:50] highlighted with a list and you can run
[1:11:52] reports and it'll actually give you
[1:11:54] written reports using uh the database so
[1:11:58] that we can see. Um I know it's I I I'm
[1:12:00] very excited to use it. Um but, I I I
[1:12:04] don't have it yet. I I don't think this
[1:12:06] is something that anybody should think
[1:12:07] is um you know, a waste of any type of money. I think
[1:12:11] this is one of the most exciting
[1:12:13] projects and programs I'm going to use
[1:12:14] and I think it's really going to help me
[1:12:17] because when people ask, "How did you
[1:12:18] select the road?" We're using our data
[1:12:20] at hand now and Mike Serone and people
[1:12:22] in the field. But, this is going to give
[1:12:24] us analytical software. We're going to
[1:12:26] be able to tell how we're doing on our
[1:12:27] roads and how our programs are going and we're going to be able to keep
[1:12:30] histories of what we're doing easier
[1:12:32] than we do now. I think it's going to be
[1:12:34] fantastic for everybody. Yeah.
[1:12:36] We would have spent more in past years
[1:12:39] sending somebody out of payroll dollars
[1:12:41] to do the evaluation, put a numeric
[1:12:43] value on it, have to key it in, and then
[1:12:46] do a less sophisticated analysis than
[1:12:49] what this is going to provide us.
[1:12:51] >> 100%. No, there's a reason why I asked if you go
[1:12:54] to the next level, you know, keep adding
[1:12:56] on as you as you as you go through the
[1:12:59] program in this year and if you want to
[1:13:01] expand, you should
[1:13:03] you know, if it's beneficial keep
[1:13:04] expanding. It gets going to sort of the the true purpose of helping us with
[1:13:09] managing our our streets.
[1:13:11] Yeah, I mean um
[1:13:13] I American can attest to one with the
[1:13:15] police department and GIS. We you know,
[1:13:18] the department of engineering has not
[1:13:19] scratched the surface of what we can do
[1:13:21] with GIS and the more we can, the better
[1:13:23] it's going to help everyone. Um and this
[1:13:25] is our really our our jump into the GIS
[1:13:28] uh for A. So, hopefully you know, we're
[1:13:29] lucky to have Matt here uh now at city
[1:13:31] hall because he's really an expert at
[1:13:33] it. Um so, I'm I'm looking forward to
[1:13:35] it.
[1:13:37] It's really good.
[1:13:38] Um Mr. Waller, could you help me
[1:13:39] understand why in November we paved the
[1:13:42] roads and we got to go through winter
[1:13:44] with the salt and uh and um plowing and
[1:13:48] all of that and then comes spring and um
[1:13:52] come the spring times, we have back to
[1:13:55] the potholes. I mean, I don't understand
[1:13:57] that. Could you help me understand that?
[1:13:59] So, we don't we we have a set route.
[1:14:02] Usually we pave try to do it by November
[1:14:03] 15th. So, the paving season usually is
[1:14:06] April 15th to November 15th and we track
[1:14:09] what we're doing. So, right now we have
[1:14:10] a very rudimentary GIS database that you
[1:14:13] can go on. If you go on the department
[1:14:15] of engineering website, you can see
[1:14:16] everywhere that we've paved in the last
[1:14:18] 15 years. We don't pave a road twice
[1:14:21] within a year. We actually because of
[1:14:22] bond law and everything,
[1:14:24] um it's every 10 years you're only
[1:14:25] allowed to pave a road every 10 years.
[1:14:27] So, we really have to try to stretch it
[1:14:29] because if you're going to use capital
[1:14:30] uh borrowed money, that's that's the
[1:14:32] rule for it. It goes the same with
[1:14:33] federal aid projects. So, we really have
[1:14:35] to track it so that we can see where
[1:14:37] we're going. But, the potholes usually
[1:14:40] 99% of the time we're not paving a road
[1:14:42] and then filling potholes on that same
[1:14:44] road in that period. And the asphalt is
[1:14:47] not susceptible to salt. We do have
[1:14:50] issues with sometimes with concrete
[1:14:52] where we put down a concrete sidewalk or
[1:14:53] a ramp and then that property owner
[1:14:55] would salt it and we have an issue with
[1:14:57] that. But, have you seen areas where
[1:14:59] we've paved a road and then it's been
[1:15:01] Yes. Yes. Well, if you would let me know
[1:15:04] those areas, we keep 10% 5% of these
[1:15:08] projects for retainage to fix areas like
[1:15:11] that. Um so, we're holding that for last
[1:15:13] year's program. So, if anyone ever has
[1:15:15] areas that you think the you know, the
[1:15:17] workmanship hasn't held up like it
[1:15:19] should be, that's why we hold that 5%.
[1:15:21] And 5% might not sound like a lot of
[1:15:23] money. It's a multi-million dollar
[1:15:24] project. So, the number is usually
[1:15:26] around a quarter of a million dollars
[1:15:28] that we hold for up to a year to make
[1:15:30] sure that their work uh meets it. We did
[1:15:32] have uh some issues in some of those
[1:15:34] spots with like crack seal uh and we're
[1:15:36] working with that company now. They're
[1:15:37] coming back in the spring to fix that.
[1:15:39] Crack seal is kind of a finicky. So, uh
[1:15:42] usually asphalt we don't have that
[1:15:43] issue. Uh the other problem that we do
[1:15:45] have with asphalt just so everyone's
[1:15:46] aware is
[1:15:48] to try to keep up for the demands of the
[1:15:50] city, we are no longer doing full
[1:15:53] reconstruction.
[1:15:54] So, a full reconstruction would mean you
[1:15:56] go down 6 in.
[1:15:57] You hit the base. You make sure We're
[1:15:59] doing a lot of 2-in mill, 2-in
[1:16:01] replacement and the rule of thumb is for
[1:16:03] every inch you put on top, it's a year
[1:16:06] for the cracks to mitigate through. So,
[1:16:08] that's why the crack sealing program is
[1:16:10] important is that we really want to get
[1:16:12] a good wearing surface and then once the
[1:16:14] cracks come in, we want to address the
[1:16:15] cracks.
[1:16:16] Um
[1:16:17] So, I don't know if that answered your
[1:16:18] question. If you ever find something
[1:16:19] that we paved and then it started to
[1:16:21] deteriorate, please let me know.
[1:16:24] Anyone else? Any other questions?
[1:16:27] Oh. Oh.
[1:16:28] Uh thank you, Mr. Waller.
[1:16:30] Very
[1:16:32] informative this evening.
[1:16:34] Um I see a lot of people when they're
[1:16:35] pushing their knees down the catch
[1:16:37] basins. I usually stop and yell at them.
[1:16:40] Uh uh just because I'm I'm putting them
[1:16:42] out here in the city and then there's
[1:16:43] the backup
[1:16:44] >> Keeping them clean is is very important
[1:16:45] as well. Right.
[1:16:47] Um
[1:16:48] seeing no other questions, uh
[1:16:51] I'd like to close out
[1:16:53] public service and utilities. So
[1:16:56] Second.
[1:16:57] All in favor? Aye. Thank you.
[1:16:59] So, I'd like to call to order
[1:17:00] city development and planning. We have
[1:17:02] eight items for discussion tonight.
[1:17:03] First of which is the award bid contract
[1:17:06] for the Jay Street connector to Carver
[1:17:07] Construction Inc. in the total amount of
[1:17:09] $3,874,174.
[1:17:13] Mr. Waller. Thank you.
[1:17:15] Um this is a long time coming project,
[1:17:17] probably one of the most exciting
[1:17:18] projects uh in a long time in downtown.
[1:17:21] Um it was the um cornerstone of the
[1:17:24] city's DRI announcement years ago.
[1:17:26] Um if you were there at the the big
[1:17:28] black box when uh Governor Cuomo's sign
[1:17:30] was there,
[1:17:31] um this is to connect essentially city
[1:17:33] hall and Little Italy to the Mohawk
[1:17:35] Harbor area
[1:17:36] uh on a new Jay Street connector. Um the
[1:17:39] connector will run between the car wash
[1:17:41] and the Union College athletic fields
[1:17:43] and college campus.
[1:17:45] Um we have our agreements with Union
[1:17:47] College. We um have our environmental
[1:17:50] done with the DEC and then we bid the
[1:17:52] project. We did the seeker if you
[1:17:54] recall. Mhm. So, we put it out. Uh we
[1:17:57] had I think four bids. The bids were
[1:17:59] varied um but, we did get a low bid
[1:18:02] within the estimate from Carver at $3.8
[1:18:04] million.
[1:18:05] I will pass this out. I
[1:18:08] meant to include, but it was not but I
[1:18:11] did not want the paperwork to go.
[1:18:13] Um this is a bid analysis and
[1:18:16] recommendation. I will forward it to the
[1:18:18] clerk's office for inclusion in the next
[1:18:22] packet just to make sure it's available
[1:18:23] publicly. But, what this is is it's the
[1:18:26] just a recommendation that states that
[1:18:28] they they went through the bid and the
[1:18:30] items were um
[1:18:32] were within line. The big uh variance if
[1:18:35] you were to look was the environmental.
[1:18:38] Um we worked with and Metroplex and the
[1:18:41] DEC on this site. But, a couple of firms
[1:18:46] they had been
[1:18:47] in questions about the environmental so
[1:18:49] they put some big numbers there to cover
[1:18:50] themselves, whereas Carver we've done a
[1:18:52] lot of work with the city and Metroplex.
[1:18:55] We believe they put in a more
[1:18:58] um
[1:18:59] streamlined bid understanding that we
[1:19:01] have taken care of the environmental
[1:19:03] risks associated with the project. Um
[1:19:05] [snorts] so, this is it. We're looking
[1:19:07] to start as soon as possible. We're
[1:19:08] hoping this project can get done by
[1:19:09] November because it is a very unique
[1:19:12] project where essentially it is a
[1:19:13] sandbox. They will be not working in
[1:19:16] traffic for 80% of the project. They
[1:19:19] will As you know, the road is closed so
[1:19:21] that they can work and build most of the
[1:19:23] roadway um without any interference from
[1:19:26] the public. And then the last 20% of the
[1:19:28] roadway um will be only affecting Union
[1:19:31] College and the car wash, and we have
[1:19:33] plans to then communicate that to all.
[1:19:35] So, we're hoping for a quick turnaround
[1:19:36] on this.
[1:19:38] Thank you. Questions or comments?
[1:19:40] Mr. Whalen. Thank you.
[1:19:42] Excuse me, thank you. Um as far as did
[1:19:44] Is it decided that the walking part of
[1:19:48] um
[1:19:48] Roger Hull Place would now be closed
[1:19:50] off? Is that part of this?
[1:19:53] So, part of the real estate uh
[1:19:55] transaction was that Union College would
[1:19:57] be transferred that property. However,
[1:19:59] Union College has not shown or proposed
[1:20:02] anything that closes that road at this
[1:20:03] time. It's not to say that they cannot
[1:20:05] in the future, but at this time they
[1:20:07] have not. So, it it's not a when this
[1:20:10] opens, that road closes. You know, they
[1:20:13] have a new president on board. They're
[1:20:14] going through, and I haven't heard
[1:20:15] anything about them officially closing
[1:20:17] Roger Hull at this time. Have you? Have
[1:20:18] you?
[1:20:19] No. Thank you.
[1:20:22] Any other questions? Mr. Whalen. Mr.
[1:20:23] Whalen, um this bid came in 6.5% below
[1:20:27] the engineer's estimate.
[1:20:29] Is that a concern? No.
[1:20:33] I I have I don't have any concerns with
[1:20:34] it. Um one of the reasons being is that
[1:20:37] when they do
[1:20:38] We have a couple of projects that
[1:20:39] usually go like this. Usually
[1:20:42] our numbers are usually 10% lower than
[1:20:45] the engineer's estimate. The reason
[1:20:46] being is engineer's estimates are based
[1:20:49] off of the New York State contract
[1:20:51] averages.
[1:20:53] Um that's how engineers at this level
[1:20:55] will estimate projects. So, that average
[1:20:59] is an actual statewide average. So, it's
[1:21:01] not only the Albany area, but it's
[1:21:02] Dutchess County, Orange County, Buffalo.
[1:21:04] And the prices tend to be a little
[1:21:06] inflated. Um so, that's where we have to
[1:21:09] kind of put in We had a project not
[1:21:11] similar to this in size, but it was a
[1:21:12] drainage project over on the north side
[1:21:15] of the city, Wyoming Lancaster. And the
[1:21:17] estimate came in at $800,000. And I said
[1:21:20] it's a $500,000 project. And they said,
[1:21:22] "Well, our number says $800,000." I
[1:21:24] said, "Well, your numbers are not
[1:21:25] correct. It's a $500,000 project." We
[1:21:27] went out to bid, it came in at $475,000.
[1:21:29] But it's just it's just
[1:21:32] DOT numbers are high. Over the last
[1:21:34] couple of years, how do you see your the
[1:21:36] change orders
[1:21:38] over the last couple of years? Okay.
[1:21:40] Have you seen a lot of change orders
[1:21:42] being requested or it's
[1:21:43] >> No. I mean, change orders are solely by
[1:21:45] would be solely by myself or or you
[1:21:48] know, if there's something were to come
[1:21:49] up. We don't do a ton of change orders
[1:21:50] on the paving program. Um a program like
[1:21:53] this um
[1:21:56] change orders would be usually only for
[1:21:58] something if you encounter in the ground
[1:22:00] that was unforeseen.
[1:22:02] But this project scope is pretty narrow
[1:22:04] and and tight. There's not really much
[1:22:06] that you can actually change. So, it
[1:22:08] would have to be something that was
[1:22:09] unforeseen.
[1:22:11] Okay. Thank you.
[1:22:13] Hearing no other questions or comments,
[1:22:14] is there a motion? So moved. Second.
[1:22:16] All those in favor? Aye.
[1:22:18] The next item is the award bidding
[1:22:20] contract for the crack sealing of city
[1:22:22] streets through
[1:22:23] 2026 to City Mark Striping LLC in the
[1:22:27] amount of $183,750.
[1:22:30] Mr. Whalen.
[1:22:31] Uh this is our annual maintenance crack
[1:22:33] sealing program. Um
[1:22:34] we do this every year. It's the first
[1:22:36] line of defense against roadway
[1:22:38] deterioration.
[1:22:39] Um the list
[1:22:40] uh we had several people come out. The winning low bid was the group that
[1:22:45] we used last year, uh City Mark. We had
[1:22:47] no issues with City Mark uh
[1:22:50] on the project, and we have no reason
[1:22:52] not to recommend them.
[1:22:54] Thank you. Any questions or comments?
[1:22:55] Mr. Whalen.
[1:22:56] >> you mentioned we have used them before
[1:22:57] in the year last year. No. Was it Was it
[1:22:59] the first year that you used them last
[1:23:01] year? Last year was the first year we
[1:23:02] used this group. Okay. Um yes.
[1:23:05] Thank you.
[1:23:07] Hearing no other questions or comments,
[1:23:08] may I have a motion? So moved. Second.
[1:23:10] All those in favor? Aye.
[1:23:13] The next item is the award bidding
[1:23:14] contract for the 2026 City Chip Paving
[1:23:17] Program to Callanan Industries Inc. in
[1:23:19] the amount of $3,146,809.90.
[1:23:24] Mr. Whalen. Okay. This is our annual
[1:23:26] chip paving program. This program is
[1:23:28] solely paid through the Consolidated
[1:23:30] Highway Improvement Program. That's what
[1:23:32] the CHIPS acronym is.
[1:23:34] Um
[1:23:35] I wanted to award this last week.
[1:23:36] Typically, we have this awarded, but it
[1:23:38] is uh dependent on the state budget. Uh
[1:23:41] I did speak with um the mayor we're
[1:23:43] moving forward with just to talk about
[1:23:45] We want to move this forward. Uh this is
[1:23:47] not a signing of a contract, but we
[1:23:49] really need to get The bid came in 30
[1:23:51] days ago. We want to have this on the
[1:23:55] in in process because we're already a
[1:23:57] little bit behind. Like I said, we like
[1:23:59] to usually pave from April 15th to
[1:24:01] November. And um I'm hoping that the
[1:24:03] state budget gets passed uh as soon as
[1:24:05] possible because this is relying on
[1:24:08] state funding. From all uh the DOT
[1:24:10] sources that I have talked with, they
[1:24:12] have not heard about any cuts. This
[1:24:14] funding amount This does not anticipate
[1:24:16] any increases. This is if everything
[1:24:18] stayed at its current level.
[1:24:20] Thank you. Um would that be a more
[1:24:22] appropriate question for finance just
[1:24:23] any stipulations with us doing that
[1:24:25] ahead of the budget? I know you said
[1:24:26] that there are no impeding changes. Um
[1:24:30] it seems as though we're hedging
[1:24:31] >> [clears throat]
[1:24:31] >> God forbid something happen.
[1:24:36] Hopefully, you'll move it ahead tonight.
[1:24:39] Get approval a week from tonight.
[1:24:42] Uh that's still subject to the final
[1:24:46] adoption of the state budget. So,
[1:24:48] they keep saying all the way who knows
[1:24:51] adopted. They've been doing extenders.
[1:24:53] Uh but this doesn't seem to be any point
[1:24:56] of contention. So,
[1:24:58] comfortable moving ahead with these
[1:24:59] numbers.
[1:25:01] And
[1:25:04] I just asked the council at this point
[1:25:05] to support it.
[1:25:07] Um Mr. President, you Uh Mr. Whalen,
[1:25:09] you're concerned about You want to award
[1:25:11] this because then you want these prices
[1:25:13] locked in at this rate at this point
[1:25:15] because it was put out to bid
[1:25:17] and open for over a month now. Correct.
[1:25:20] And I did speak with our purchasing
[1:25:22] director. It is possible that I could
[1:25:24] get a letter asking them to hold their
[1:25:26] pricing, which most likely they will
[1:25:27] because they want to work with the city.
[1:25:29] Um
[1:25:30] However, it also sets us back um with
[1:25:32] time, which I'm really not I'm I'm
[1:25:34] trying to buy any week we can to move
[1:25:36] forward.
[1:25:38] Thank you. Any other questions or
[1:25:40] comments?
[1:25:41] I'll move this. Second. Second. All
[1:25:43] those in favor? Aye.
[1:25:45] And last item for the Mr. Whalen, award
[1:25:48] bidding contract for the city police
[1:25:49] department generator replacement to S.W.
[1:25:52] Burke Electric LLC in the amount of
[1:25:55] $339,000.
[1:25:58] Thank you. Um as stated, our our police
[1:26:00] department has
[1:26:02] two generators, uh one functioning, one
[1:26:05] uh original to the building that is in
[1:26:07] place. They're both located in the
[1:26:09] basement. Um the generators uh require
[1:26:12] diesel fuel. The diesel fuel is in an
[1:26:14] underground tank outside of the building
[1:26:16] in the sidewalk. The tank has been uh
[1:26:20] flagged by the DEC for being removed. Um
[1:26:24] so, we are complying with that, and
[1:26:25] we're working on a removal program right
[1:26:27] now. We actually bid it, but the bids
[1:26:29] were um higher than what we would like.
[1:26:31] We only got one. We want to see uh if we
[1:26:34] can, you know, clarify that and get it
[1:26:36] out. We've been working with the DEC on
[1:26:37] this project. Um so, what we want to do
[1:26:40] is this is a multi-phase approach. What
[1:26:42] I've been going on is that the police
[1:26:45] department, you're going to be seeing me
[1:26:46] come in with a lot of requests over the
[1:26:47] next two capital seasons for
[1:26:50] improvements to the police department,
[1:26:51] which is still very much original to its
[1:26:53] 1970s mechanicals. Um these generators
[1:26:56] are taking up valuable space inside the
[1:26:58] building. Uh I would like to utilize
[1:27:01] that space to replace the old electrical
[1:27:03] switch gear. So, what we're going to do
[1:27:05] is award install a new generator that is
[1:27:08] located outside of the building within
[1:27:10] an above-ground fuel cell, nothing in
[1:27:12] the ground. Um once this situation is
[1:27:15] installed and active, we're going to
[1:27:16] remove all the old generators, and then
[1:27:19] we're going to come in with an
[1:27:20] electrical
[1:27:21] uh capital request for next year to put
[1:27:24] in a new electrical system, and that way
[1:27:27] we can abandon the old electrical
[1:27:29] system, which is outdated. After the new
[1:27:31] electrical system is in place, then
[1:27:32] we're going to look to do some HVAC.
[1:27:35] But this is essentially the first domino
[1:27:38] that's going to fall inside the building
[1:27:40] to make room for the rest.
[1:27:42] Um and uh these generators are
[1:27:45] prepackaged units. We've been having a
[1:27:47] lot of success with them. Uh they'll be
[1:27:48] located outside uh the admin building
[1:27:51] near the children's garden with a little
[1:27:52] fenced enclosure.
[1:27:55] Mr. Whalen. Yes, thank you. Mr. Whalen,
[1:27:57] where is this funding coming from under
[1:27:59] the capital the 2026 capital um
[1:28:02] budget? Okay. Uh this funding is coming
[1:28:05] through a capital code called police uh
[1:28:08] HVAC and mechanical improvements.
[1:28:12] It it this is not a 2026. It's not a
[1:28:14] 2026.
[1:28:16] >> No. The 2026 actually, you haven't seen
[1:28:19] any 2026 yet because I don't know if
[1:28:21] we've actually solved and are ready to
[1:28:23] move forward on. We have Right.
[1:28:25] This is This is old capital. So, this
[1:28:27] was budgeted under the 2025 2025 or
[1:28:31] earlier, yeah. This is These are
[1:28:32] projects that I'm trying to clean up.
[1:28:34] >> Okay. Yes. Thank you for clarifying. I
[1:28:36] thought it was a 2026, but it's not in
[1:28:38] here. I I have not even started on 2026
[1:28:40] yet. Okay. Thank you for that. Thank
[1:28:42] you. Any questions or comments? Mr.
[1:28:44] Chairs. Um so, this being the the lowest
[1:28:46] budget you received on April 1st, what
[1:28:48] were some of the hang-ups that you
[1:28:49] received from people that were proposing
[1:28:51] budget? Was it working with the DEC in
[1:28:52] compliance with the diesel from for the
[1:28:54] generator? What was the issues that you
[1:28:55] were seeing while we waited so long to
[1:28:57] get someone to give you that? Cuz you
[1:28:59] said the numbers that you were receiving
[1:29:00] Oh, oh, you're talking about for the
[1:29:01] tank?
[1:29:01] >> Yeah, yeah. For the tank removal, we
[1:29:03] only got one bid. Okay. And we think it
[1:29:05] was because um we weren't fast enough
[1:29:07] with responding to questions about the
[1:29:09] bid excavation. So, what we're doing is
[1:29:11] we're putting all the questions that we
[1:29:13] were asked about the removals into the
[1:29:15] base bid, and we're putting it back out,
[1:29:17] and we're going to act Usually, we don't
[1:29:18] actively solicit to companies. Um we try
[1:29:21] not to We use Empire Bidnet and and
[1:29:23] other programs, but in this case, um to
[1:29:26] have a number come in that was above our
[1:29:29] estimate, and it only be one bid, it's
[1:29:31] very hard to recommend to the council
[1:29:33] something like that. So, we want to try
[1:29:34] again.
[1:29:35] Thank you.
[1:29:36] Any other questions or comments? Hearing
[1:29:38] none, may we have a motion? So Second.
[1:29:40] All those in favor? Aye. Thank
[1:29:42] you.
[1:29:44] The next item will be a discussion of
[1:29:46] the city code chapter 161-21,
[1:29:49] public collection and disposal of solid
[1:29:51] waste, next steps in the bulk sticker
[1:29:53] trash program.
[1:29:55] Um if you can all recall, we've been
[1:29:56] making a good headway in these
[1:29:58] conversations. Uh this meeting we will
[1:30:01] be having a update from Mr. Lunn I think
[1:30:04] with regards to restructure and next
[1:30:07] steps moving forward.
[1:30:15] Thank you, Mr. President. Um
[1:30:18] uh I took this one short notice, so
[1:30:20] forgive me. Uh Paul wasn't able to attend. Um we are
[1:30:24] coming up with some numbers that uh
[1:30:26] hopefully will be favorable to the
[1:30:28] council to make a decision on uh two-tier system of garbage. Uh you know, recommendations coming from
[1:30:37] the uh garbage uh we're going to say a
[1:30:39] 45-gallon can is uh acceptable. Um we we
[1:30:43] like the two bulk items once a month uh
[1:30:46] per household.
[1:30:48] Uh the second tier uh looking at, you
[1:30:51] know, a
[1:30:52] uh possible take all on on the second
[1:30:55] tier. Um and see what fits the best. Uh
[1:31:00] we also got to think and remember that
[1:31:02] when we implement the two-tier system,
[1:31:05] that we have to look at what our finance
[1:31:07] department is capable of and our
[1:31:09] taxation department with the uh
[1:31:12] we're currently
[1:31:14] uh only able to take one tax bill in at a time at a certain rate. When we
[1:31:20] change that rate per property,
[1:31:23] um we may have to look at getting a
[1:31:25] uh separate software system for OGS to
[1:31:28] implement that. Uh there's a RPS uh
[1:31:32] delay from the county that that pretty
[1:31:35] much lags us about 3 months.
[1:31:38] Um
[1:31:39] with the sale of a property, which would
[1:31:41] cause a problem if somebody didn't want
[1:31:44] the second tier moved into that and was
[1:31:47] getting taxed for it. So, um we're there
[1:31:50] is a few hurdles to look at, and uh you
[1:31:52] know,
[1:31:53] time
[1:31:55] timetables of when we can implement
[1:31:57] these systems.
[1:31:58] Um but I I think the the beginning is
[1:32:02] quantifying garbage and uh you know,
[1:32:04] starting at the beginning of
[1:32:06] uh what the expectations are from the
[1:32:08] council uh and the mayor of uh
[1:32:12] you know, how much garbage that
[1:32:14] we are allowed to create and and throw
[1:32:17] out. Uh and then the second tier. Uh
[1:32:20] looking at pre-numbers now, you know,
[1:32:22] we're at an eight-digit operation,
[1:32:26] uh currently looking at
[1:32:28] uh downfalls, you know, possible
[1:32:30] shortfalls in the five-digit numbers uh
[1:32:32] you know, all we're looking at today.
[1:32:35] Um you know, that could go up, you know,
[1:32:38] if things don't change
[1:32:40] um
[1:32:41] ba- based on what we see, you know, from
[1:32:44] the data.
[1:32:45] Um and I'd be happy to answer anybody's
[1:32:48] questions that that you have.
[1:32:51] Uh thank you, Mr. Lunn, for being
[1:32:52] present. I'm definitely to be very
[1:32:54] honest, disappointed we don't have any
[1:32:55] numbers in front of us. I think at this
[1:32:57] stage very much expecting to have those
[1:32:59] to consider. I can very much understand
[1:33:02] um that we are compiling a lot, um but I
[1:33:05] think we we just need to make sure we
[1:33:07] have all the information in front of us
[1:33:08] to make the best informed decisions
[1:33:10] moving forward. Um with that being said,
[1:33:13] I would you mind taking the first
[1:33:15] question? Um just speaking to your just
[1:33:18] confidence in the two-tier system. I
[1:33:19] know you've said but let's make sure we
[1:33:22] have clear tangibles. Do you feel
[1:33:24] confident that the two-tier program or
[1:33:26] two-tier approach will work for the
[1:33:28] city? I I I 100% back a two-tier system.
[1:33:31] I believe it's the fairest way to go. Um
[1:33:35] it it does uh
[1:33:37] you know, there's there's pros and and
[1:33:39] cons to everything we do.
[1:33:41] Uh the system we now have uh is
[1:33:45] the easiest to enforce. Once we go to a
[1:33:47] two-tier system, we're going to have to
[1:33:48] look at using technologies, AI
[1:33:50] technologies of which property um you
[1:33:53] know, has uh
[1:33:55] the second tier and giving us the best
[1:33:58] efficiency. Um you know, in trying to
[1:34:01] keep it keep the uh
[1:34:04] sanitation department as efficient as
[1:34:06] possible. Uh it also uh promotes uh you
[1:34:10] know, doing a two-tier system like this
[1:34:11] promotes recycling, which we can't
[1:34:14] predict you know, maybe I would say uh
[1:34:16] half of the households that currently
[1:34:18] recycle in the city. Um we're going to
[1:34:20] see that increase because they don't
[1:34:23] want to buy a second can or, you know,
[1:34:26] make that that larger investment. With
[1:34:28] that, the
[1:34:30] uh recycling costs the city uh I believe
[1:34:33] $76 a ton versus $58 a ton for
[1:34:38] uh waste disposal. So, it costs us get
[1:34:41] more now to get rid of recycling than it
[1:34:43] does to uh get rid of waste. So, that
[1:34:46] will be numbers that that we'd have to
[1:34:49] we we don't have da- data on. We we
[1:34:51] collect all our data Every All garbage
[1:34:54] goes in the one truck and it gets thrown
[1:34:55] away. We know uh
[1:34:58] what districts make what. Um we we can
[1:35:01] track that, uh but we can't track right
[1:35:04] now what households make, you know, how
[1:35:06] much weight. So, um
[1:35:09] having a dedicated fund where the
[1:35:12] uh if possible, revenue overflows go
[1:35:15] into uh for the the following year, you
[1:35:19] would then have a better idea after
[1:35:20] implementing the first year, um you
[1:35:23] know, how much you you overran, and then
[1:35:26] that could be credited to the year after
[1:35:29] and and balance it out. So, it is going
[1:35:31] to take a learning phase to get
[1:35:34] to a two-tier system,
[1:35:36] but I'm confident that we can get there.
[1:35:39] I I do think that it's going to take
[1:35:41] some time to implement, and it wouldn't
[1:35:42] be this year. Um
[1:35:44] but it would have to be looked at in the
[1:35:46] future. Um
[1:35:48] and larger conversations would have to
[1:35:51] be had between
[1:35:52] uh inter- you know, departments here in
[1:35:54] the city.
[1:35:56] Thank you. Question or comments, Mr.
[1:35:57] McGovern? Yeah, um prior conversation,
[1:36:00] uh we had talked about um
[1:36:02] 50 gallons of container.
[1:36:04] How is that uh I know in terms of our employees, how is that with the
[1:36:09] union? Are they going to be, you know,
[1:36:12] Right currently it's a 40-gallon, 45,
[1:36:14] 45-gallon.
[1:36:15] So
[1:36:16] >> So, can we ask him to ask him to go to a
[1:36:17] 50-gallon? How is that sitting with
[1:36:19] them? Are they in favor of that?
[1:36:24] The current contract refers to says
[1:36:27] 45-gallon, so that's what I asked be
[1:36:31] included in this.
[1:36:32] And our contract with Scotia
[1:36:37] says 90 gallons per
[1:36:40] but what it is, it's 45 for MSW, 45 for
[1:36:45] recyclables.
[1:36:46] Uh and that would just
[1:36:48] have a level of consistency across the
[1:36:51] board.
[1:36:53] Um the the code also says that
[1:36:57] we we accept anything from a 10-gallon
[1:37:00] to a 45-gallon. So, uh you know, if
[1:37:03] there is households that, you know, we
[1:37:06] can look at, you know, a smaller can for
[1:37:08] those people that
[1:37:09] uh are not able to uh you know, carry
[1:37:12] out that can.
[1:37:14] » [snorts]
[1:37:14] >> You know, if they only make two bags of
[1:37:15] garbage.
[1:37:17] I do think that in the rules and
[1:37:18] regulations that we have to uh define
[1:37:22] uh you know, what we want in the can.
[1:37:24] You know, is it is it uh you know, with
[1:37:27] an attached lid? Um
[1:37:29] all garbage should be bagged.
[1:37:32] And you know, so forth.
[1:37:35] Those are some things I'm currently
[1:37:36] working on,
[1:37:38] modifications to the entire chapter
[1:37:41] 161.
[1:37:43] Mr. McGovern. So, the proposal is that
[1:37:45] we're staying at 45 gallons, and I'm
[1:37:47] making it to go to 50 50 gallons. Uh
[1:37:50] we're staying at 45. I would recommend
[1:37:52] 45. So, whatever can fit in that
[1:37:53] 45-gallon
[1:37:55] container
[1:37:56] will get put out.
[1:37:58] And picked up. That's correct. Okay.
[1:38:00] Now, you mentioned something there um in
[1:38:02] terms of um
[1:38:03] money rolled over into the next year.
[1:38:05] But you're saying here you know, you
[1:38:07] have to If you read the code, they have
[1:38:08] that there. It it's supposed to have a
[1:38:09] dedicated fund for any uh revenue that's
[1:38:12] going in there, and I think that should
[1:38:14] continue. Um so, if there is a you know,
[1:38:18] if if we if we make it too much, if we
[1:38:21] say
[1:38:22] uh to collect for that second tier is is
[1:38:24] way and and we overestimate it, uh based
[1:38:28] on we don't know exactly what each
[1:38:29] household's going to put out, um
[1:38:32] we can then take that money and figure
[1:38:35] out what what the correction is for
[1:38:37] those families in the years to come.
[1:38:40] No, no, no, I'm glad you brought it up
[1:38:41] because this is a good opportunity for
[1:38:42] us maybe to separate the um
[1:38:44] the waste budget like how we do with the
[1:38:47] um
[1:38:48] water and sewer, and to have a
[1:38:49] stand-alone
[1:38:51] waste collection um revenue budget um
[1:38:55] Which is what we've been trying to do.
[1:38:57] The
[1:38:58] fee uh we wanted to cover waste
[1:39:00] collection.
[1:39:02] Today, the waste fee is subsidized by
[1:39:05] the general fund.
[1:39:08] Well, that's what I'm saying. Well, this
[1:39:09] is what I'm saying. This is our plan.
[1:39:10] Talk about taking the surplus and
[1:39:13] carrying it forward. There is none. It's
[1:39:16] a structural deficit. Yeah.
[1:39:19] So, I think we need to look at that
[1:39:20] maybe in the next budget to separate
[1:39:22] the funding for
[1:39:23] ways. It would be an ideal idea to get
[1:39:25] it going. We're talking about this
[1:39:26] because he seems to be talking about
[1:39:28] ways over the last several years, but I
[1:39:30] think we need to So, we're talking about
[1:39:31] it, we need to address it and get it
[1:39:33] behind us. And maybe it's a good
[1:39:34] opportunity for us to have a separate
[1:39:36] funding
[1:39:37] source.
[1:39:39] Good morning, everyone.
[1:39:41] Uh Mr. Chairs,
[1:39:42] you had made reference to a shortfall of
[1:39:45] about five digit figures. Can you speak
[1:39:46] more to that? Uh I'm going to just say
[1:39:48] that we're we're probably looking at
[1:39:50] numbers that are in the red and we're
[1:39:52] going to be looking for revenue based on
[1:39:54] the current tipping fees
[1:39:56] and what we have collected. Garbage is
[1:39:58] not static. It kind of goes like this,
[1:40:01] so I can't say it's absolute.
[1:40:04] You know, everybody could stop throwing
[1:40:06] out, but
[1:40:07] what we've seen in the past is is a lot
[1:40:09] of people move in the summertime before
[1:40:12] they have their kids are in school,
[1:40:14] stuff like that. So, we we know that
[1:40:17] there's a heavy time coming also, so we
[1:40:20] can we can kind of predict that there's
[1:40:22] going to be some more
[1:40:24] garbage being thrown out than normal,
[1:40:27] you know, or or typical.
[1:40:29] And follow up to that, so you and you
[1:40:30] said there might be a need for a second
[1:40:32] software system through OGS to work
[1:40:34] everything out.
[1:40:36] And I'm thinking just from what we've
[1:40:37] done already, time frame wise, how long
[1:40:39] would it take you to implement start the
[1:40:41] implementation process of this two-tier
[1:40:43] system? Say if we were to pass it today,
[1:40:46] how long would it take you? Obviously,
[1:40:48] that's not what's happening at the
[1:40:49] moment, right?
[1:40:50] So, so we'd have to come up with the
[1:40:52] determinations of exactly what
[1:40:55] the department needs to operate.
[1:40:59] It's got to be efficient. It's got to
[1:41:00] take in
[1:41:02] It's got to offer the best services to
[1:41:04] the community
[1:41:06] and also use in what I think is going to
[1:41:09] be integrated the AI software program
[1:41:11] that identifies the properties that
[1:41:14] for my garbage men, how many, you know,
[1:41:17] is it a multi-tier or is it single-tier
[1:41:20] directly, so then we can absolutely send
[1:41:23] out notice of violation or no
[1:41:27] concern that that their garbage is out
[1:41:30] without you know,
[1:41:32] illegal now.
[1:41:34] And to finish this just cuz our time
[1:41:36] frame is we had said
[1:41:38] suspended the program till June. And you
[1:41:40] may not have the answer now, but if you
[1:41:41] could come back with a before you or Mr.
[1:41:43] LaFontaine, just a recommendation
[1:41:44] finishing out this year because as we've
[1:41:46] continued to have these conversations, I
[1:41:48] do believe it's productive. We're
[1:41:49] looking at realistically things that we
[1:41:51] can implement by 2027 for the year
[1:41:53] assuming, right? So, how can we finish
[1:41:55] out the last six months of this year
[1:41:56] that's going to work with OGS workers
[1:41:58] and that the union's going to be okay
[1:41:59] with as well? Yeah, I apologize for not
[1:42:02] being able to actually give them up a
[1:42:03] time for the software system and all
[1:42:05] that comes,
[1:42:07] you know, with designers and you know,
[1:42:10] going out to bid. So, there's there's a
[1:42:11] lot of specs to go for for 2026, it's it's quantifying
[1:42:18] garbage. It's putting limitations on how
[1:42:21] much people are throw to be thrown out
[1:42:24] in bulk items. And then
[1:42:26] an educational program should be put out
[1:42:29] for
[1:42:30] what the expectations of the overflow of
[1:42:33] those bulk items and how the public
[1:42:36] should be handling them
[1:42:38] is what I would recommend.
[1:42:39] Mr. Lance, Mayor Mr. Mayor.
[1:42:43] The simplest approach would be getting
[1:42:46] the council to make a decision
[1:42:48] what the quantity is. So, if you go with
[1:42:51] the 45 gallon can,
[1:42:55] the first can we pick up under the
[1:42:57] current fee structure,
[1:43:00] you can still reduce that down to say
[1:43:03] that's [clears throat] going to be
[1:43:04] five or six bags 13 gallon or whatever,
[1:43:08] so we can still pick those up. People
[1:43:10] who want the additional
[1:43:13] service
[1:43:14] can be charged and then
[1:43:16] look at it as the simplest thing is
[1:43:18] today we pass out the stickers that go
[1:43:20] on the cans for recycling is we put out
[1:43:24] the sticker
[1:43:26] that designates the house is having a
[1:43:30] has paid the higher fee so that they
[1:43:31] could put out two cans that we would
[1:43:34] pick up.
[1:43:35] And again, as Mr. Lance talked about,
[1:43:37] there's still a lot of variables in some
[1:43:40] of that. What do you do with the bulk
[1:43:42] items? How do you handle that?
[1:43:46] But we could start to phase some of that
[1:43:48] in
[1:43:50] relatively quickly
[1:43:52] building in
[1:43:55] flexibility and then also having just a
[1:43:57] learning curve of how quick people adapt
[1:44:01] the
[1:44:02] process and
[1:44:05] again, as opposed to the city buying the
[1:44:07] cans, we say there's a designated can
[1:44:11] and work with
[1:44:12] you know, some of the local hardware
[1:44:14] stores where
[1:44:16] people want to go and buy it, they buy
[1:44:18] it.
[1:44:19] Again, have to set the standard on it
[1:44:21] for does it have the lid? Does it have
[1:44:23] the wheels?
[1:44:25] Other features that make it more
[1:44:29] functional for the crew in the street.
[1:44:32] I think before I think to that point,
[1:44:34] Mr. Engert was talking about those
[1:44:35] efforts as well. You want to take a
[1:44:36] moment? Yeah, so I think
[1:44:39] I definitely agree with Mr. Lance that
[1:44:41] we need to quantify garbage. I think
[1:44:44] at the last committee meeting we
[1:44:46] stressed that. I think we also need to
[1:44:47] stress for the remainder of this year
[1:44:49] after June like Mr. Chairs was saying,
[1:44:51] what are we going to collect for bulk
[1:44:53] because once that expires,
[1:44:55] we're going back to the sticker program
[1:44:56] where right now we're just collecting
[1:44:58] everything, which I think like you said
[1:44:59] is not sustainable.
[1:45:01] Um
[1:45:02] to the mayor's point about cans and
[1:45:05] working with local hardware stores, the
[1:45:06] city of New York,
[1:45:08] they partner with Home Depot
[1:45:11] to have the city seal painted on garbage
[1:45:13] cans that they sell in the store.
[1:45:15] There is data that we could do that and
[1:45:18] partner with them, but I think that's
[1:45:19] more of a long drawn out process that we
[1:45:21] can look forward in the future. But I
[1:45:23] think for the short term, we definitely
[1:45:25] need to focus on like you said,
[1:45:26] quantifying garbage, quantifying
[1:45:28] jackpots, and then, you know, if we talk
[1:45:31] about 2027, 2028, 2029, where do we go
[1:45:34] from there? So.
[1:45:36] And I'm a fan of Lowe's, so we have to
[1:45:39] Mr. Mayor. Yeah, so I have to be careful
[1:45:41] what I'm saying.
[1:45:52] Yeah, thank you. I'm glad that you
[1:45:53] brought it up and saying that because
[1:45:56] that's what New York City has and these
[1:45:58] hardware stores will supply the can with
[1:46:00] the seal.
[1:46:01] That's something that we can we can tap
[1:46:03] into when that comes to that.
[1:46:06] Actually purchase that at their cost and
[1:46:08] have them
[1:46:09] Um Mayor, you talked about
[1:46:11] track. How do we track these? If you
[1:46:13] were to go with this tier one, tier two
[1:46:15] system,
[1:46:17] are we going to be putting software
[1:46:19] technology in place to track show up to
[1:46:21] my place? How would you know that I am a
[1:46:23] tier one, tier two?
[1:46:26] You don't. My simple thing is you don't
[1:46:28] have a sticker on your can, you're tier
[1:46:30] one. You have a sticker on your second
[1:46:32] can, you're tier two.
[1:46:34] >> So, then okay, so then you're required
[1:46:35] to have a sticker to identify your your
[1:46:37] level. So, that would be the simpler
[1:46:39] way. So,
[1:46:41] council puts a fee on the sticker that
[1:46:43] goes on the can so that you now qualify
[1:46:45] for twice the amount of garbage as the
[1:46:49] regular household.
[1:46:50] >> Now, the reason why I ask is because,
[1:46:51] you know, our staff are there. I mean,
[1:46:53] we cannot put more on them. They're they're hustling and bustling to
[1:46:56] get that can into the garbage and move
[1:46:57] on to the next house. To add more stuff
[1:47:00] to them is kind of like compounding
[1:47:01] already that they're taxing with. The
[1:47:05] Mr. Walls talked about
[1:47:07] working with Civil.
[1:47:09] The
[1:47:11] presentation was done in the cycle
[1:47:12] before with the University of Albany.
[1:47:14] It's using some of the similar
[1:47:16] technology
[1:47:17] and those two companies talking to each
[1:47:19] other
[1:47:21] to be able to process that. So,
[1:47:23] University of Albany is not just looking
[1:47:25] at the garbage at the curb, but looking
[1:47:28] at litter on the street, uh
[1:47:31] other maintenance and code violations
[1:47:33] that would be
[1:47:35] uh
[1:47:35] >> [clears throat]
[1:47:36] >> people's front yards, how do you
[1:47:40] automate some of those notices? What we
[1:47:42] found in the past is if we send out a
[1:47:45] notice for people who
[1:47:47] have
[1:47:49] bushes that aren't cut or long grass, we
[1:47:52] get a very high compliance rate with
[1:47:54] just
[1:47:56] reminding people that they should be
[1:47:57] doing it differently. And then it's how
[1:48:00] do you focus the resources on those
[1:48:02] problem properties or property owners
[1:48:06] who drive our costs because they're not
[1:48:09] picking the stuff up or they're cleaning
[1:48:11] the building out, putting the jackpot
[1:48:13] out there, so we're expecting us to pick
[1:48:15] up a couple tons of material uh
[1:48:19] once a month.
[1:48:20] And you Mr. Chairs.
[1:48:22] So,
[1:48:23] could you Did you have a question?
[1:48:25] Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Did you have a
[1:48:26] follow up? Yeah, I do I do have a follow
[1:48:28] up if you don't mind. Yeah, Mayor, I'm
[1:48:29] glad you touched on that because this
[1:48:31] ticket here that we had rolled out a
[1:48:33] couple years ago, this is a parent
[1:48:35] ticket to the police department. It did
[1:48:36] mention littering and over bulk of
[1:48:38] trash.
[1:48:40] Can we
[1:48:41] tap into Civic to work with the police
[1:48:43] in order for this for this ticketing
[1:48:45] system?
[1:48:47] That's part of the But that's part of
[1:48:49] the thing. How do you automate that and
[1:48:53] be able to get it generated
[1:48:56] reduce the manpower so that you
[1:49:00] Everything still requires like a human
[1:49:02] review. [clears throat] So, somebody's
[1:49:03] got to sit and
[1:49:05] look at the photos, look at the stuff,
[1:49:07] but today we send one person out look at
[1:49:10] it, they write it down, they go to the
[1:49:12] next house. This year you can
[1:49:15] scan 100 houses,
[1:49:17] you know, in a very short period of time
[1:49:19] and identify those that are in need of
[1:49:24] color
[1:49:25] a polite reminder and then
[1:49:28] those that don't comply with that then
[1:49:30] we become more aggressive in our
[1:49:32] follow-up. Yeah, just to get address
[1:49:33] some of those first some of them right
[1:49:35] as highlights. So we just need to tap
[1:49:36] into the service
[1:49:38] so they can get the next one before I if you don't mind.
[1:49:42] So since we're look like we're moving
[1:49:43] forward in in a positive direction here
[1:49:45] in terms of addressing this verbiage,
[1:49:47] should we
[1:49:49] move forward in terms of
[1:49:50] rescinding the sticker program because
[1:49:53] the timing we have to look at the timing
[1:49:55] also because June 2nd and we want to
[1:49:57] give ourselves enough time to what do we
[1:49:59] need to do? Public hearing? Do we need a
[1:50:01] public hearing to rescind that?
[1:50:03] And to bring that, you know, get that
[1:50:05] behind us and move forward into this new
[1:50:07] program. Mr. Ryan. Yeah, to answer that
[1:50:10] question, if you're going to rescind
[1:50:11] the, you know, any amendments to chapter
[1:50:13] 161, they're going to have to be via
[1:50:15] public hearing. And and if you res-
[1:50:19] change anything,
[1:50:21] obviously you're amending the code so
[1:50:22] that requires public hearing. So the way
[1:50:25] ahead is really the question I was going
[1:50:27] to ask is that as as Mr. Ryan indicated,
[1:50:31] he's been working on sections of the
[1:50:32] code that are going to have to be
[1:50:34] changed and we can we legal office can work with Mr. Ryan on getting that
[1:50:39] done.
[1:50:41] Your moratorium or suspension expires on
[1:50:44] Sunday, June 14th regarding the sticker
[1:50:46] program.
[1:50:48] So I'm hearing here is a tier one
[1:50:50] program and a tier two program. When do
[1:50:52] you want to implement that tier one?
[1:50:55] When do you want to implement tier two?
[1:50:57] And what and and to your question, Mr. Ryan, you
[1:51:02] know, what do where does that leave the
[1:51:03] sticker program? Do we leave the sticker
[1:51:05] program phasing out at the end of the
[1:51:07] year or
[1:51:09] create, you know, what the guidance that
[1:51:12] the council has to give Mr. Ryan and the
[1:51:14] legal department at this point is what
[1:51:16] do you want to do? You want to do a tier
[1:51:18] one, tier two with an effective date,
[1:51:21] you know, January 1 of 2026 or an
[1:51:24] effective date before that and or you want to
[1:51:29] you know
[1:51:31] rescind the just out out rescind the the sticker program. But what are you
[1:51:35] going to put in its place and when do
[1:51:37] you want that phased in? So
[1:51:41] what we need from the council, Mr. Ryan
[1:51:43] and legal to in order to draft something
[1:51:46] up so at your next meeting you have
[1:51:48] something
[1:51:50] for in the code in front of you
[1:51:53] and then go through the public hearing
[1:51:54] process and I can go through that, Mr.
[1:51:56] Chairman, just
[1:51:57] regarding the timelines later on.
[1:52:00] But what we need is when you want that
[1:52:03] started under
[1:52:05] you know, tier one, tier
[1:52:08] two, what does that include? When does
[1:52:10] that start? And what what does that mean
[1:52:12] for the sticker program? Uh did you
[1:52:14] follow Mr. Ryan? Yes. So
[1:52:17] thank you. Thank you for clarifying
[1:52:19] that. So as we move forward and we're
[1:52:20] going to be adopting, hopefully, tier
[1:52:23] one, tier two. And as we rescind the
[1:52:25] sticker program, I think we should do
[1:52:27] both at the same time with Mr. uh
[1:52:30] Ryan
[1:52:32] and the finance team
[1:52:34] and corporation council's and our
[1:52:36] council is incorporate all at the same
[1:52:38] time because you're going to need a
[1:52:39] public hearing
[1:52:40] to amend chapter 161 and at the same
[1:52:43] time you need to do all in one roll out
[1:52:45] one. So I I think we should do both at
[1:52:47] the same time rather than doing rescind
[1:52:50] one and then go back two weeks or four
[1:52:52] weeks and then have to go and amend it.
[1:52:54] So I think we need to
[1:52:56] put it all together and do one
[1:52:58] public hearing and amend it so that get
[1:53:00] the language in at the same time. Thank
[1:53:02] you. Mr. Ryan. Yeah, and just to follow
[1:53:04] up on that, just to clarify so
[1:53:05] everybody's on the same page as far as
[1:53:07] the hearing schedule and when this has
[1:53:08] to roll out regarding the deadline.
[1:53:11] So
[1:53:12] you know, next committee cycle we'll
[1:53:14] work up a draft for for for for the
[1:53:16] council to take a look at. At the next
[1:53:19] committee cycle, which is on May 4th,
[1:53:21] you'll review the draft and then pass
[1:53:23] out a resolution calling for a public
[1:53:25] hearing for May 26th.
[1:53:28] That resolution calling for the public
[1:53:30] hearing will be on
[1:53:31] May 11th.
[1:53:33] And then at the next committee cycle,
[1:53:36] which is May 18th, you'll have a second
[1:53:38] look at the draft
[1:53:40] and then
[1:53:41] the after the public hearing, which will
[1:53:44] include the new language as well as the
[1:53:47] repealed language to be taken out if if
[1:53:50] that's what the council wants,
[1:53:53] it can all be part cuz it's all going to
[1:53:54] be part of one chapter 161.
[1:53:58] Then after the public hearing, there is
[1:54:00] a if there's a committee cycle after
[1:54:02] that on June 1, so based on the comments
[1:54:05] you hear from the public, you'll have
[1:54:06] another opportunity to look at the the
[1:54:09] proposed order ordinance, pass it out
[1:54:12] committee. The next the next city
[1:54:15] council meeting is June 8th and that is
[1:54:18] before the deadline, which is on Sunday,
[1:54:20] June 14th.
[1:54:22] Thank you, Mr. Chairs.
[1:54:25] It's a lot.
[1:54:26] Possibly Mr. Ryan, you got a lot in
[1:54:28] right there. So first I I want to stay
[1:54:29] on point with that. With this looking at
[1:54:31] the timeline that Mr. Ryan just laid out
[1:54:33] for us, would your team be able to get
[1:54:35] the council those numbers that we're
[1:54:36] expecting today before May 4th
[1:54:39] committee cycle? So this way we can
[1:54:41] actually review those numbers as well so
[1:54:43] we can make if we're going to put it all
[1:54:44] into one public hearing cycle, I feel
[1:54:46] and I'm not speaking for council for
[1:54:48] myself, I would like to have those
[1:54:49] numbers so we can better review and
[1:54:51] understand that we are going to move
[1:54:52] into this tier two, make that decision
[1:54:53] that same day. I have no problem
[1:54:55] pressing forward and I want to make that
[1:54:56] informed conversation decision once we get to that point. So
[1:55:01] if that's something your team could do,
[1:55:03] I would be in favor with Mr. Ryan moving
[1:55:06] forward with the code change as well.
[1:55:07] I appreciate that question and
[1:55:10] my blunt answer is no. I really think
[1:55:12] that there has to be internal
[1:55:14] conversations with our taxation
[1:55:16] department
[1:55:18] of how this money is received and then
[1:55:20] build out. Currently,
[1:55:22] if somebody doesn't pay a bill, it goes
[1:55:24] onto the tax roll.
[1:55:26] Two-tier system you having municity and
[1:55:29] our software system limitations.
[1:55:31] Currently, I think we've got to get over
[1:55:33] that hurdle
[1:55:34] unless we rethink it and simplify the
[1:55:36] system of uh
[1:55:39] and modify the code later on.
[1:55:43] Also, that the
[1:55:44] 161 chapter 161
[1:55:47] with the rest of the code is is a
[1:55:49] disaster, you know, it's it's old and
[1:55:52] hasn't been revamped. I want to put it
[1:55:54] together in in one orderly fashion that
[1:55:57] will last uh quite a few years and and
[1:56:00] this council can be proud of. So
[1:56:03] I would say it that timeline for me is
[1:56:06] unrealistic and I need to
[1:56:08] you know, further data from the
[1:56:11] council you know, on proposals for
[1:56:15] what I would like to do into
[1:56:17] what everyone wants to do in their
[1:56:19] chapter 161. Uh just for example, we had
[1:56:23] uh code enforcement administrative fees
[1:56:25] were raised last year but
[1:56:28] uh nuisance administrative fees
[1:56:31] still remain at $50 admin fee, which
[1:56:33] doesn't cost the cover
[1:56:35] operational costs. So there's things
[1:56:38] like that that I
[1:56:39] need to be considered. Would they be put
[1:56:42] in? Would they be approved and and then
[1:56:44] go forward from there? So I I think
[1:56:47] going a little deeper with the timeline
[1:56:49] would be more realistic and then
[1:56:51] implementation
[1:56:53] I think it would be
[1:56:55] 2027. Okay. So how long projectively and
[1:56:59] I appreciate you being honest, thank you
[1:57:00] first off, would it take for your team
[1:57:02] because we are up against that timeline,
[1:57:04] right? June 14th in this room, we pushed
[1:57:05] this back. You all got a late start to
[1:57:07] this year anyway on top of everything
[1:57:09] else, the nonsense that we dealt with.
[1:57:11] So what can we what can we expect from
[1:57:14] you as a council timeline that's going
[1:57:15] to be realistic for you to put that
[1:57:17] together and I appreciate the fact that
[1:57:18] you want to help us put something that's
[1:57:20] going to be long standing in the city
[1:57:23] for code that I think hasn't been
[1:57:24] updated since like 1979. So it's like,
[1:57:26] you know,
[1:57:27] what what time frame would you need to
[1:57:29] get us those numbers? Um
[1:57:32] I I would say an extra 30 days would
[1:57:35] uh work wonders.
[1:57:38] I I would recommend that
[1:57:41] if it's if the sticker program, you
[1:57:43] know, has already been
[1:57:45] you know, extended 30 days, is that
[1:57:47] something there we could go forward and
[1:57:49] do another extension on and
[1:57:52] it's up to the what the council Mr.
[1:57:54] Mayor.
[1:57:55] Okay. What numbers are you looking for?
[1:57:58] My position has been the council has to
[1:58:00] make a decision on quantity.
[1:58:03] You seem to be moving closer to the 45
[1:58:05] gallons. If you can do that,
[1:58:08] we can move forward [clears throat]
[1:58:10] on a
[1:58:12] fairly simplified basis and still
[1:58:14] building some flexibility in it.
[1:58:17] The
[1:58:18] I'm not looking to buy the cans from the
[1:58:21] city.
[1:58:22] You know, we can say that here's the
[1:58:24] standard can, you can get it at Home
[1:58:27] Depot
[1:58:29] for city residents and Carl's Jr. and
[1:58:31] the discount at Lowe's just outside of
[1:58:33] the city.
[1:58:34] But
[1:58:35] people can work from that and again
[1:58:40] commit to some level of flexible
[1:58:42] enforcement so [clears throat] that
[1:58:44] we're using common sense there. So if
[1:58:47] somebody goes a little bit over 45
[1:58:48] gallons, we're not giving them a hard
[1:58:50] time, but if somebody is putting out two
[1:58:53] tons of material,
[1:58:55] they've got to pay for it. Right.
[1:58:58] So right.
[1:58:59] So if I can going to I'm sorry, but I
[1:59:00] think similarly, I think we sort of
[1:59:02] getting away and I appreciate the level
[1:59:04] of detail you are providing. I think
[1:59:05] it's clear to point out that there are
[1:59:06] two separate functionalities at this
[1:59:08] table. We as council members legislate.
[1:59:11] The mayor's office is responsible for
[1:59:13] operating. So, I think with this how
[1:59:15] this situation was presented to the
[1:59:17] council is the language in the city code
[1:59:19] is unclear for me to implement
[1:59:21] throughout the city.
[1:59:22] Is that accurate, Mr. Nick? Correct. So,
[1:59:24] as we are continuing forward in this
[1:59:25] conversation, I think we're getting
[1:59:27] closer and I think with tonight's
[1:59:29] conversation, my expectations as one of
[1:59:31] seven votes was to give you the go ahead
[1:59:34] out of our committee to start building
[1:59:36] that language for the potential public
[1:59:39] hearing later on.
[1:59:41] Um,
[1:59:41] I think my comment directly to you, Mr.
[1:59:43] Lund, is can you just simply build a fee
[1:59:47] structure for these two tiers
[1:59:50] and I understand how you implement it is
[1:59:52] going to be complicated, to say the
[1:59:53] least, but that very much is a
[1:59:55] consideration outside of the council.
[1:59:57] I'm confident we can come up with that
[1:59:59] in 2 weeks.
[2:00:01] yeah. Thank you. Um, any
[2:00:04] other questions or comments?
[2:00:06] I do. Mr. O'Brien. So, we're talking
[2:00:08] about the 45-gallon that we're going to
[2:00:10] require that the homeowner purchases,
[2:00:12] that we're going to have to need to add
[2:00:13] Sorry, we're going to need to add that
[2:00:15] into 161. Yeah. Yeah, this is going to
[2:00:17] have to be amended. It's all It's all
[2:00:19] going to be forbidden. As Mr. Lund
[2:00:21] indicated, it's going to all be part of
[2:00:23] the whole big package. You know,
[2:00:26] obviously the [clears throat] the emphasis will be
[2:00:28] on
[2:00:29] the number of cans, etc. You know, the
[2:00:32] immediate but we're going to be working
[2:00:34] on that. So, yes,
[2:00:36] to answer your question, you will
[2:00:37] require that to be amended along with
[2:00:40] other items. And then in terms of if
[2:00:42] someone refused to purchase or not
[2:00:44] purchase, is there a violation? Will
[2:00:46] there [clears throat] be a fine attached
[2:00:47] to that as part of the I would, in the
[2:00:50] interim, do a conversion to bags so that
[2:00:55] we The ideal thing is that they have a
[2:00:57] 45-gallon can out there, but if they put
[2:01:01] whatever the council decided, six or
[2:01:03] seven bags out, we would pick that up.
[2:01:05] Something that is close to the capacity
[2:01:08] of the 45-gallon can.
[2:01:12] So.
[2:01:13] you're you're not required to
[2:01:15] purchase a can with a lid? Not
[2:01:17] initially. Not initially? There'd be
[2:01:19] that phase-in to
[2:01:21] So, we'll we'll need to add that in
[2:01:23] also. We We can We can address it in
[2:01:26] tiers so that that phased-in as various
[2:01:29] parts of the the code are phased in. So,
[2:01:31] we can hear that over with Mr. Lund and
[2:01:35] Mr. Lafond on that, but we can tier that
[2:01:37] in. And I think for any violations, we
[2:01:39] already have that and that if that's
[2:01:41] what Mr. Lund was talking about about
[2:01:43] kind of upping, you know, for whatever
[2:01:45] reason that that fee was
[2:01:47] not in the part of the table of fees
[2:01:48] increased a couple years ago, so that
[2:01:50] can be dealt with as part of this
[2:01:52] omnibus package.
[2:01:54] Um, Mr. Wiggins. I have
[2:01:56] I I can talk a little bit if you need to
[2:01:58] increase the fee for the garbage
[2:02:00] section, right? But in terms of a
[2:02:02] nuisance, that's a different thing, but
[2:02:03] I remember when I was piloting a fee
[2:02:06] increase, I did reach out to Paul and
[2:02:08] team
[2:02:09] and asked to sit down and to meet as
[2:02:11] part of the budget team cycle where we
[2:02:13] increase the fee and nobody from OGS sat
[2:02:16] down with me. No, I said we did, but
[2:02:19] uh, code enforcement only.
[2:02:22] No, no, we talked about nuisance fees.
[2:02:23] No, we did not. We It was never It was
[2:02:26] never brought forward at all. We did
[2:02:27] talk about code enforcement. We did talk
[2:02:30] about police and all of that, but the
[2:02:31] fee was not
[2:02:32] directly nuisance You know, I don't I I
[2:02:35] don't think ever you should have a split
[2:02:36] different fee for one department than
[2:02:39] there's the other. It's based on the
[2:02:41] cost of operation.
[2:02:43] Why would the cost of operation for
[2:02:45] nuisance be any different than code
[2:02:46] enforcement? So, them being grouped in
[2:02:49] just because they're under OGS and and
[2:02:52] building department being all over here
[2:02:53] in City Hall
[2:02:55] is is uh
[2:02:57] Well, at that time we were doing Yeah.
[2:02:59] At that time we were going department to
[2:03:00] department so to kind of
[2:03:02] look at the fees and
[2:03:04] correct them.
[2:03:06] So, we can do it. I reached out to you
[2:03:07] and we can we can come
[2:03:09] >> absolutely. And we did that for the code
[2:03:10] enforcement only. I
[2:03:12] And come up with a with a new fee
[2:03:14] structure for
[2:03:16] the ones that we missed Yeah,
[2:03:17] absolutely. the last 2 years and we can
[2:03:19] correct it. I I I think
[2:03:20] what I'm looking at is proposing an
[2:03:22] entire
[2:03:24] a tiered system for
[2:03:27] enforcement for, you know, hopefully
[2:03:29] that a you know,
[2:03:31] a first tier would be like an
[2:03:32] administrative fee, the second tier
[2:03:34] would be the administrative fee plus
[2:03:38] a fine on top, third tier, you know,
[2:03:41] each violation in the 18-month period
[2:03:43] would would would go up on a property
[2:03:46] that was not complying so we can
[2:03:48] actually start to gain compliance.
[2:03:51] Um, I see too many people come in and
[2:03:53] just pay the admin fees and and you
[2:03:56] know, they know their tenants are doing
[2:03:58] wrong. We want them to manage their
[2:03:59] properties and that's we want good
[2:04:01] property managers out there. Um,
[2:04:05] and secondary to that, I see a lot of
[2:04:07] landlords that were um
[2:04:10] uh,
[2:04:10] issued violations for what their tenants
[2:04:13] put out. So, so they're they're the ones
[2:04:16] paying the violations for, you know, So,
[2:04:19] we we really have to have education for
[2:04:21] the landlords and you know, the
[2:04:23] single-family homes here in this program
[2:04:26] to be successful.
[2:04:28] So, so let's let's discuss that and we
[2:04:30] can
[2:04:31] discuss that and then I'll bring it to
[2:04:32] the council and discuss and move forward
[2:04:34] with amending the fees for the Let's do
[2:04:36] some lunch. We can all sit down and have
[2:04:38] lunch. What time is it?
[2:04:40] That would be a great idea. Yes. So,
[2:04:42] I'll meet with you, Mr. O'Brien, Mr.
[2:04:44] Wiggins, and then Mr. Ingram.
[2:04:46] Um, I just think the language needs to
[2:04:48] be clear because summer is much shorter
[2:04:51] than winter and we do have a lot of
[2:04:52] seniors that have to put out their
[2:04:53] garbage. And we had a gentleman that
[2:04:56] just came to the council last week where
[2:04:58] in the wintertime he can't get to his
[2:04:59] garbage cans. So, I think everything
[2:05:02] needs to be clear and followed so that
[2:05:05] we're not only recognizing
[2:05:08] um
[2:05:09] our youth and middle age, we also have
[2:05:11] to consider our seasons.
[2:05:16] Individuals where they have to put their
[2:05:18] garbage out and be considerate of of
[2:05:19] them also. Yeah.
[2:05:21] Mr. Ingram.
[2:05:22] So, I think the the discussion has been
[2:05:24] very productive. I just think we've gone
[2:05:27] Not to your respect, Mr. Lund, we've
[2:05:28] gone way full circle. To well put.
[2:05:32] So, I think that, you know, for the
[2:05:33] remainder of the year past June 14th, we
[2:05:36] have to do something with bulk. We can't
[2:05:38] go back to
[2:05:40] like we are now collecting everything.
[2:05:41] So, if we were to implement a 45-gallon
[2:05:44] can,
[2:05:45] if that's, you know, 45-gallon can is a
[2:05:47] 45-gallon can, that's what you get. You
[2:05:49] could put a smaller can out like the
[2:05:50] mayor said,
[2:05:51] but up to a 45-gallon can and then,
[2:05:55] you know, how whatever we decide on
[2:05:56] bulk, if it's one, two, whatever, but I
[2:05:58] think for the rest of the the year, we
[2:06:00] have to decide that because
[2:06:02] like you said, it's not sustainable
[2:06:04] right now. And if we keep going down
[2:06:05] that road, it's just going to keep
[2:06:07] getting worse and worse and worse. So,
[2:06:08] then if we were talking in 2027 to make
[2:06:11] these radical changes, I think that's
[2:06:13] great, but I think for the the current
[2:06:16] time period and the schedule that Mr.
[2:06:18] O'Brien outlined, we need to make a
[2:06:19] recommendation for that just so that
[2:06:21] we're ready for June 15th after the
[2:06:23] deadline.
[2:06:24] Mr. And I currently apologize Mr. Turner
[2:06:27] for patiently waiting.
[2:06:30] for a chance
[2:06:34] I've said this before, we have one time
[2:06:35] to do it right and we're going to do it
[2:06:37] right. I I firmly believe that. So, I
[2:06:40] don't think we need any numbers in 2
[2:06:41] weeks and and
[2:06:43] I personally appreciate everything that
[2:06:46] you're working on and doing. It can't be
[2:06:48] easy on top of all your other
[2:06:50] jobs that you have to do. So, I I I
[2:06:53] think we need to just slow it down a
[2:06:55] little bit if we're not even thinking
[2:06:56] about implementing anything until 2027.
[2:06:59] Get the numbers right
[2:07:01] once and for all. Do it once and for
[2:07:03] all.
[2:07:04] And again, I agree with Mr.
[2:07:08] Payton, yes.
[2:07:10] Um,
[2:07:11] the fact that we really
[2:07:14] » [laughter]
[2:07:16] >> that it's not sustainable to pick up all
[2:07:19] this bulk moving forward and
[2:07:21] from June on, I don't think we should
[2:07:23] rescind it at any point
[2:07:26] for the rest of the year. We have time
[2:07:28] to talk about it how, you know,
[2:07:29] especially we need to address the bulk.
[2:07:31] So, we really need to
[2:07:33] besides the 45-gallon can and the two
[2:07:36] cans or even three cans should should
[2:07:39] different buildings want.
[2:07:40] Again, what they're going to pay for to
[2:07:42] pick it all up. So, I think we I don't
[2:07:44] think we should rescind that at all.
[2:07:46] Um, I know we'll have a lot of extra
[2:07:49] trash
[2:07:50] when we go to pick up cans that
[2:07:52] residents are using now and on
[2:07:53] appropriate on the tops or whatever. And
[2:07:56] I know when one of my cans breaks, I
[2:07:57] always have to put a sign on it, "Please
[2:07:59] take the can." So,
[2:08:01] um, those are my just that, you know,
[2:08:02] again, I I
[2:08:03] want to reiterate the fact that
[2:08:05] we want to do it right and and we're on
[2:08:07] a we're on a very clear path, I believe.
[2:08:11] Mr. Ingram. I'm sorry.
[2:08:13] I assume the council has
[2:08:15] asked come to agreement on the bulk
[2:08:18] items of picking up two bulk items once
[2:08:21] a month.
[2:08:23] Is that
[2:08:24] That's what I heard.
[2:08:25] So, it's my concern with that is
[2:08:27] how do you communicate that to the public where we're now
[2:08:31] restricting it, putting it on certain
[2:08:33] days, if there's a process for how we
[2:08:35] can properly inform the community
[2:08:37] because I imagine on top of not having
[2:08:38] that
[2:08:39] software, that CTG software, now CTG
[2:08:42] software now,
[2:08:43] that is
[2:08:45] on top of everything else burdening your
[2:08:47] staff more. So, could you even
[2:08:49] enforce that? Well, got to answer. I
[2:08:51] know confidently you couldn't. So, if we
[2:08:53] continue throughout the year limiting it
[2:08:55] to one per pickup, I think that
[2:08:57] streamlines it and then the new year we
[2:08:59] can roll out as aggressive as an
[2:09:01] approach. I I agree with that limiting
[2:09:03] it to two per month.
[2:09:05] Okay.
[2:09:07] I'm sorry. Go ahead. I I I was just
[2:09:09] going to say and and I don't know if
[2:09:11] this
[2:09:12] rolling around the thought here that our
[2:09:14] qualifying garbage
[2:09:18] and instead of in this year
[2:09:20] we you know implementing the second
[2:09:22] tier, I don't know is it possible to
[2:09:25] open up the sticker program for the rest
[2:09:27] of the year to to address the additional
[2:09:30] bulk items
[2:09:32] for
[2:09:34] those properties and say hey, we've got a plethora of stickers to to
[2:09:38] give out and if it it would help us get
[2:09:41] rid of these stickers also. So, I don't
[2:09:42] know you know, that's
[2:09:44] an idea that anybody's welcome to
[2:09:47] Mr. Evans. I just think it is important
[2:09:50] to get the numbers because the council
[2:09:51] president asked for the numbers weeks
[2:09:53] ago. And I think that any department
[2:09:56] that we ask for numbers or anything
[2:09:57] from, I think the council deserves it.
[2:10:00] No, you're 100% right. I do apologize.
[2:10:02] The the numbers are in the budget. So,
[2:10:04] if you look at the budget is what we
[2:10:07] budgeted for and and the only numbers
[2:10:09] that really don't have is what we've
[2:10:11] spent this year. All right, so
[2:10:15] it it it's hard to quantify
[2:10:17] it it's all it's all fluid right here
[2:10:20] because we don't know what comes from
[2:10:21] your house, your house, your house, your house, right? So, we're
[2:10:25] you're all charged the same. So, I can't
[2:10:27] say that I'm going to predict that
[2:10:32] 30% are going to want this bulk item
[2:10:34] program. I don't know what that number
[2:10:36] is actually going to be, right?
[2:10:39] We don't collect data on everybody's
[2:10:42] household. So, it's hard to say
[2:10:45] this is what the number's going to
[2:10:47] This is the exact number that you have
[2:10:50] to charge to the second tier.
[2:10:54] Do you understand? I understand what
[2:10:55] you're saying, but just like a just a
[2:10:57] little demo of something that you was
[2:10:59] going to get us in two weeks, that's a
[2:11:01] start. I will give it to you. Thank you.
[2:11:03] Mr. Mayor.
[2:11:06] What numbers are you looking for? So,
[2:11:08] what if the one in can cost
[2:11:11] other factors and looking to how to do
[2:11:14] this as simple as possible starting off
[2:11:18] is to
[2:11:20] again the council has to set the
[2:11:22] quantity
[2:11:23] and whatever you do with the bulk items,
[2:11:26] is it one to two, whatever, but put
[2:11:29] those basic parameters in
[2:11:30] [clears throat] place and then we're in
[2:11:32] a much better position to do some of the
[2:11:35] estimates and extrapolation in terms of
[2:11:39] actual cost and there is the factor
[2:11:43] ideally if everybody
[2:11:45] got the cans
[2:11:47] it does increase the amount of time
[2:11:50] that's going to take to pick up the
[2:11:51] garbage because you got to go pick up
[2:11:53] the can, bring it to the truck and then
[2:11:55] bring it back where today with the bags
[2:11:58] they can bring it directly to the truck,
[2:12:00] drop it and then move on.
[2:12:02] And
[2:12:03] those numbers
[2:12:05] there's really no good way to do an
[2:12:07] estimate.
[2:12:09] But so let's say respectfully didn't
[2:12:11] send a few emails, one of which this
[2:12:13] morning just outlining the parameters
[2:12:16] where around the tier one, tier two cost
[2:12:19] structure, the amount of tonnage tonnage
[2:12:21] that we expect
[2:12:22] and then the gaps and projections for
[2:12:25] fiscal year 2027. And unfortunately
[2:12:28] those were not received. Now, I think at
[2:12:30] these conversations we can either harp
[2:12:31] on what we don't have or proceed forward
[2:12:33] with what we do. And I think the
[2:12:34] conversations tonight were still
[2:12:35] extremely valuable. I think being in the
[2:12:38] committee, not discrediting all the
[2:12:40] other voices, we do have to progress
[2:12:42] forward. This meeting does have to end
[2:12:43] tonight.
[2:12:46] I would say
[2:12:47] Mr. Lon, you've been incredibly
[2:12:49] detailed. I appreciate your time.
[2:12:52] But I would say consider to just the
[2:12:53] members of the committee
[2:12:55] what are we comfortable proceeding with?
[2:12:56] And I would say my recommendation is to
[2:12:58] Mr. O'Brien's earlier point building
[2:13:00] that draft language for consideration. I
[2:13:03] think building upon Mr. Muveran's point
[2:13:06] of also preparing to resend the bulk
[2:13:09] sticker program. Mr. Lon, I don't think
[2:13:11] that would fall favorably on anyone to
[2:13:13] extend it.
[2:13:14] Even if we're trying to get rid of get
[2:13:15] rid of the stickers, that is my personal
[2:13:17] opinion. I'm welcome anyone else's. But
[2:13:20] sincerely, I believe the community is
[2:13:22] going to want to see what those cost
[2:13:24] projections look like
[2:13:26] regardless of our confidence and then
[2:13:27] because this is a consideration they're
[2:13:29] going to have to make.
[2:13:30] And then what that protects us with is
[2:13:32] then for our future budget
[2:13:33] conversations, a lot of what has held up
[2:13:36] increases in fees has just been our
[2:13:37] confidence in the program. And if we can
[2:13:40] confidently
[2:13:41] renovate or update this policy, I think
[2:13:44] that then puts us in a better space to
[2:13:45] understand all right, what are the
[2:13:47] conversations going to look like in
[2:13:48] October and November ahead of time.
[2:13:51] Mr. Muveran. Just to summarize and I
[2:13:53] appreciate uh the committee for this.
[2:13:55] So,
[2:13:57] prior discussion we were talking about
[2:14:00] allow two bulk items per week
[2:14:02] or
[2:14:03] per month.
[2:14:04] And then we talked about the manpower.
[2:14:07] So, if I were to put out across the city
[2:14:09] two items every household one time per
[2:14:12] month
[2:14:14] the manpower behind that versus putting
[2:14:16] in two items every
[2:14:19] pickup cycle
[2:14:21] wherever it is free.
[2:14:23] It's
[2:14:23] hard to say because bulk items are are
[2:14:26] so different, you know, from a couch to
[2:14:28] a vacuum cleaner, you know, and so hard
[2:14:31] to say. I think the
[2:14:33] mayor keyed on the
[2:14:34] a key point of
[2:14:36] garbage is going to slow down when we go
[2:14:38] to a dedicated can. With the 45 gallon
[2:14:41] can, they're heavier. My guys are used
[2:14:43] to winging bags, you know, and and
[2:14:46] throwing the bags in the lighter cans.
[2:14:48] And when we go to a heavier,
[2:14:50] more durable, more reliable can,
[2:14:53] we are going to see garbage
[2:14:55] slow down which is going to drive up the
[2:14:56] cost of operation. So, well, how how
[2:14:59] long it's going to take extra, I don't
[2:15:01] know. How many more people we have to
[2:15:03] put on the route? But you know, these
[2:15:05] are all things that you know, are
[2:15:07] variables that will lead into like I
[2:15:09] said it
[2:15:10] you know, having [snorts]
[2:15:11] shooting a reasonable number that that
[2:15:14] works for us and the public and then
[2:15:16] having a dedicated fund for those over
[2:15:19] you know, let's shoot a little high and
[2:15:21] then you know, if it's in the dedicated
[2:15:23] funds the money goes to rolls over to
[2:15:26] the next year to
[2:15:28] supplement that department.
[2:15:30] So, I'm good with that. So,
[2:15:33] we have the the agreement that we can
[2:15:34] move forward two bulk items per month
[2:15:37] and then anything over that is a
[2:15:38] violation. We're going to need to work
[2:15:40] with corporation council to what what
[2:15:43] that violation fee is attached to that
[2:15:45] at that point if you go over your two
[2:15:47] bulk item per month and then stick with
[2:15:50] a 45 gallon dedicated can and with with
[2:15:54] a limit.
[2:15:55] And I think on the tier one which is
[2:15:57] basic like we get charged right now,
[2:15:59] tier two is added charge. So, that's
[2:16:01] what they're focusing on the fee for the
[2:16:03] tier the tier two. Tier one is my
[2:16:05] understanding that will be the basic
[2:16:07] fee.
[2:16:08] Every year up or down this highway every
[2:16:11] week is. So, I think
[2:16:13] we need to narrow this down and simplify
[2:16:15] the fee that we're asking for is tier
[2:16:17] two. And if we're going to agree to two
[2:16:21] bulk item per month and then if there if
[2:16:23] there's a violation on that then
[2:16:25] we need to work with corporation council
[2:16:27] to agree on a fee and I you know, that
[2:16:29] could come from
[2:16:31] you based on you know, your field work,
[2:16:33] how do you what you think is a
[2:16:34] reasonable fee in terms of that that
[2:16:36] violation and the administrative costs
[2:16:39] for that waste to collect. The best for
[2:16:42] the public is you know, like I said
[2:16:43] having AI technology [clears throat]
[2:16:45] notify that that is a violation and we
[2:16:49] pick it up at the time we see the
[2:16:51] violation. If we have to go back and
[2:16:54] send a separate truck like we were doing
[2:16:56] under the sticker program the cost of
[2:17:00] enforcing it goes Double cost, yes.
[2:17:02] Doubles the cost. So, I agree with that.
[2:17:04] Mr. Mayor.
[2:17:06] The other component I would submit to
[2:17:07] the council for your consideration is
[2:17:11] to what what Mr. O'Brien outlined is
[2:17:14] changing the code and there's a it's a
[2:17:16] new more cumbersome process to do that.
[2:17:20] Within those changes and we've done it
[2:17:22] in other areas of the code
[2:17:24] where if you want to change the fee or
[2:17:27] change one item, you can do it by
[2:17:30] resolution.
[2:17:32] So, that the code
[2:17:34] 99% of it is fixed in law and if you
[2:17:38] want to change it you got to do the
[2:17:39] public hearing, you got to do the public
[2:17:41] notice, you got to do it. But if you're
[2:17:42] changing
[2:17:44] one small component of it you can do
[2:17:47] that by resolution and it builds
[2:17:49] flexibility in it. So, if we get down
[2:17:50] the road, some of this you might want to
[2:17:52] increase the number or you might want to
[2:17:54] decrease the number and to do it again
[2:17:57] in the most expedited manner and one
[2:17:59] that simple and straightforward.
[2:18:02] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Sears, Mr.
[2:18:04] Andrew. So, just quick based on what
[2:18:07] I've heard the mayor say for the last
[2:18:08] two months and see what you guys would
[2:18:09] you guys be comfortable with the six,
[2:18:11] seven bags you would quantify that and
[2:18:13] that's I'm just me myself and you saying
[2:18:15] six or seven like that, but six or seven
[2:18:17] bags
[2:18:18] would be manageable for you guys to get
[2:18:20] that done as long with the two bulk
[2:18:22] items and also Lon had spoke about the
[2:18:24] time bringing right you guys are the
[2:18:25] only ones that have to get the job done,
[2:18:27] you don't get to come back the next day.
[2:18:28] Would that be manageable or do you feel
[2:18:31] that that would be
[2:18:32] too much? Well, I'm just saying you
[2:18:34] know, obviously everyone I agree with
[2:18:35] putting out six or seven bags.
[2:18:37] Thank you.
[2:18:38] Mr. Andrew. I am in agreement with you,
[2:18:41] Mr. Muveran. If we go to two bulk items
[2:18:42] a month in a 45 gallon can, I think
[2:18:45] again if we stick to simple for now and
[2:18:48] then we can roll out
[2:18:50] the increased fee schedule by
[2:18:51] resolution, that at least helps get our
[2:18:53] guys on board. It starts the process and
[2:18:56] we can move forward.
[2:18:58] Yes.
[2:18:58] >> [snorts]
[2:18:58] >> Perfect.
[2:18:59] >> [clears throat]
[2:18:59] >> So, is that a motion?
[2:19:01] for what?
[2:19:04] Well, not motion, but how we're going to
[2:19:05] proceed. So, Is that interpreted by Mr.
[2:19:08] Walsh?
[2:19:09] It gives Yes.
[2:19:12] The the commissioner
[2:19:14] and legal, the framework in which to start drafting
[2:19:18] the ordinance.
[2:19:19] Perfect. Sorry. Expectation is to have
[2:19:21] that back at council for 2 weeks.
[2:19:23] >> 2 weeks, we'll have a working draft for
[2:19:25] you. And at that point, you can tweak
[2:19:27] it, change it, and then at that time you
[2:19:30] can call for the public hearing for
[2:19:32] March 26th
[2:19:34] at the council meeting of March 7th.
[2:19:36] Perfect. Mr. Ingram? Just to add to
[2:19:38] that,
[2:19:40] other members in the committee, I think
[2:19:42] we should put in there has to have a
[2:19:43] lid. Um Kevin, must have a lid, yes.
[2:19:46] Must have a lid. The garbage must be in
[2:19:48] bags. The lid must be attached. Um I
[2:19:50] don't know how you feel about wheels.
[2:19:53] Um
[2:19:54] Well,
[2:19:55] but
[2:19:56] most of most of these cans come with
[2:19:58] wheels, but sometimes accident may
[2:20:01] occur.
[2:20:02] But that I think definitely a lid
[2:20:03] attached and definitely the garbage has
[2:20:05] to be in bags in the can.
[2:20:09] Yes. Also, that will be a grab. But
[2:20:10] whatever we're discussing here, this is
[2:20:12] only for one unit. So, if there's a
[2:20:14] two-unit, you're allowed four bulk
[2:20:16] items, two cans for garbage, solid
[2:20:19] waste, one for recycling. and two for
[2:20:21] recycling. Correct. So, we might want to
[2:20:23] capture that in the in the drawing.
[2:20:25] Right. Yes.
[2:20:27] Perfect. There are no other questions. I
[2:20:28] think this is good.
[2:20:31] Heading in the right direction.
[2:20:32] Yes. Thank you, Mr. Walsh. Thank you.
[2:20:35] sir. Yeah, thank you. Get her
[2:20:36] to sit down if anyone has another
[2:20:37] question.
[2:20:39] Thank you, Chris. Thanks, Chris. Thank
[2:20:41] you. I will will talk to you guys on the
[2:20:42] fee structure.
[2:20:43] The next item is a reminder to amend
[2:20:45] section 9-2 of this county code to
[2:20:47] increase the membership of the downtown
[2:20:49] special the assessment district board
[2:20:51] from 9 to 15 members and to amend such
[2:20:54] membership qualifications. There will be
[2:20:55] a public hearing on April 27th, 2026.
[2:20:59] Any questions, comments?
[2:21:01] Hearing none,
[2:21:03] uh the last two items, I believe, are
[2:21:05] for executive session. However, I do
[2:21:07] want to clarify item number seven just
[2:21:09] identifies proposed settlement. I just
[2:21:11] wanted to expand that is a settlement
[2:21:13] involving
[2:21:14] um Andre Porter.
[2:21:17] Uh corporation counsel is not here to
[2:21:19] tell you and to explain that any
[2:21:20] further.
[2:21:23] I mean, but that that is a settlement
[2:21:25] with Andre Porter.
[2:21:26] Is that
[2:21:27] executive session?
[2:21:32] Is there a motion to go into executive
[2:21:34] session?
[2:21:36] So, we're going to wait for them to
[2:21:37] validate that they can. Okay. So, at
[2:21:39] this moment, I'll entertain a motion to
[2:21:41] enter executive session. So Second.
[2:21:43] All in favor? Aye. Hearing
[2:21:46] executive session, members of the public
[2:21:47] will have to
[2:21:55] » [music]