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All right, welcome everyone. I'd like to

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call the meeting to order.

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So there are no remote attendance. We

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skip

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remote attendance.

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>> Hang a little second. I just

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>> All right. We

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Okay.

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Just All right. So, we have slight

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technical difficulties here at the dis.

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All right. So, Veronica, why don't we do

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roll call and then I'll check on oral

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communications and hopefully we can slot

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the rest of this stuff in.

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>> Yes. Uh, Council Member Walter

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present. Council member Hasco

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>> here.

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>> Council member Flynn

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>> here. Vice Mayor Huy

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>> here.

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>> Mayor Taylor

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>> present.

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>> We have a quorum. Thank you.

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All right. Does anyone have oral

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communications that's not something on

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tonight's agenda? In particular, this

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section of the agenda, which is

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interviews for ASC. So, I only see two

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people in the audience and their hands

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aren't raised. Let me check online.

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All right. So, I see Christiey's hands

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up.

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» Yes. Um, thanks for listening. I am

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hoping to um see that the planning

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commission meetings are not cancelled so

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the public can ask questions

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about different topics in town and get

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the answers. I think it would be better

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for all rather than sending letters. Um

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so that's my request is to get some

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feedback on many um items. Thank you.

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>> Thank you.

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>> All right. Anybody else have oral

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communications that are not on the

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agenda?

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All right. I see no hands in

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schoolhouse. I see no hands online.

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So with that, why don't we start the

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process?

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And I apologize. I'm switching between

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about five different screens here. So,

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um, okay. So, we're here tonight to

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conduct interviews and appoint a

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commission member for ASCC. We have two

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applicants. Um, what I'd like to ask is

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that we do this sort of one at a time.

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Um, and that if you're not, and we can

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flip coins or somebody can decide they

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want to go first. Um, the other person

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if they just step out of the room while

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we do this, that and then you're welcome

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to come back. Um, but that would be our

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preferred. You're not required to leave,

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but that that would be our preference.

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So, with that, do you want to go first?

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Okay. So, would you mind stepping out?

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Great. Thank you.

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All right.

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I'm going back to different screens.

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All right. Do all the council members

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have the questions up? Okay, great. Um,

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I apologize. I was hoping to get these

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printed, but um so what what I'd like to

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do is we'll just divide them up. I was

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thinking maybe one and two could go

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together and then we can just take the other um four qu four four questions

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after that and that would give us an

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even number.

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So does anybody have a strong feeling

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for doing questions one and two which is

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just sort of a basic intro? All right,

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you got it. Please.

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>> It's finally I got it.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you come up to

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» questions or no?

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>> I think you'll you can interject it as

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part of the questions. How about that

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>> because you'll see what the first

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question is. Tell us about yourself. So

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it'll be perfect. So right Mary go

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ahead.

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>> Hi. Uh nice to see you this evening. uh

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these are all formulated questions uh so

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that uh it's an equal interview process.

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So the first two questions can be

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combined very nicely. The first is can

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you tell us about yourself?

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>> Myself

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>> and why you are interested in serving on

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the ASC and what background or skills

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you bring that would contribute to your

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role as an ASCC member. Okay, that

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pretty much is my paper or your paper.

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>> Okay, I just want to say thank you for

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considering my application to to be a

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member of the ASC. And I was told that

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Laura Russell, our old planning

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director, suggested that we disband our

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ASC when she was here, that our town no

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longer had much say or input with

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building projects. I myself believe that

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our ASC should stay as strong as

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possible and I think that we can still

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have plenty of input in how our rural

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character is preserved during the future

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developments.

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And about me, um, in my younger years,

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my husband and I lived in Redwood City

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and I came out here every day to work as

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a telephone repairman, repair person,

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excuse me. Um, I fell in love with the

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quietness and ruralness and vowed that I

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would live here one day. And luckily, a

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few years later, we were able to move

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here and raise our kids in this great

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rural area rather than in a highly urban

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city. And while living here, I have I

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have had a number of horses and have

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spent numerous hours enjoying all of our

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town's trails. And I actually served on

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and was also the chair of the trails and

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paths committee for many years until I

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had to quit due to some health problems.

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Uh, I am in very invested in keeping

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Portola Valley as rural as possible. And

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having been a realtor in Portullah

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Valley, Woodside, and the surrounding

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cities for 20 years, I'm well aware of

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the many uh people who only want to live

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in cities where they have the

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walkability to Starbucks and stores and

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restaurants. And on the other side of

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the coin are the people who wish to live

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anywhere other than a crowded city and

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love the ideal of our uh ruralness, the

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dark knights, and our small town

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character. Um, we can't allow this

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environment to fade away. And al though

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although I'm sure I have a lot to learn,

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I have many I've done many remodels on

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my home since I bought my first one in

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19 uh 74 and I have been the general

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contractor for my remodels and also

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while building the ADU at my current

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home. So I'm familiar with what goes on

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in the building pro process.

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Um, see,

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just one of the things that I look also

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towards is seeing the devastation of the

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Tubs fire after my sister's house burned

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down. I'm concerned for our residents

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safety and I believe we need to be on

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top of how and where buildings are going

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to be situated in in future developments

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in order to diminish additional fire and

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evacuation danger for us all. And I want

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you to know that I am a full-time

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resident of Portola Valley and being

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retired, I have the time and

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availability for in-person ASC meetings

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and the necessary site visits for

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prospective building projects. Having a

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passion for Portulla Valley, I think I

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would be an asset to our architectural

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and site control committee and I hope

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you will consider me for this position.

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>> Great. Thank you. Rebecca, do you want

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to take question three?

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>> Sure.

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Are you prepared to dedicate the time

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needed to review materials, attend site

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visits, and stay engaged over a

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multi-year term?

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>> Yes, completely. And that's why I like I

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said, I'm retired, so I have the time

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and the availability to do all this.

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>> Great. Thank you. Judith, you want to do

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four?

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>> Uh, any other conflicts of interest or

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situations that might limit your ability

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to end the meeting?

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>> No, I don't think so.

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Thank you,

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Helen. Number five,

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you might want to turn you back on.

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>> Yeah,

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got too many things we're shuffling

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today.

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>> After tipping over drinks, I'm a little

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cautious.

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Um, question number five. How familiar

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are you with the town's municipal code

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and design guidelines, particularly as

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they relate to architectural and site

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plan review?

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And it's got a second section. How would

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you use those standards along with the

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submitted plans, reports, and data to

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make well-reasoned

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decisions on applications, including

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determining whether to recommend

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approval, denial, or conditions?

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>> Okay. I I totally understand that I'm

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not totally up to all the codes and

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everything that I need to be, and I'm

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totally have the ability to learn, and

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I'm willing to learn. Um, and I will

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apply all of our codes to whatever

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process and whatever um

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perspective developments that need to be

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done. I will apply our rules to it.

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>> Okay. Thank you.

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>> Can I ask follow question or not yet? Or

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how are we going to

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>> What I was going to do is just stay with

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these questions. I'll do the sixth one

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and then I was just going to open up to

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ask a couple follow.

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>> Great. Thank you.

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>> Okay. So then the last of our sort of

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you know stock questions um how do you

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approach um acting in good faith and

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upholding your fiduciary responsibility

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to the community especially when your

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findings may conflict with other

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commissioners or face public opposition.

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Well, I think the whole point is do

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following the rules of the town and the

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laws of the town and

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hopefully work out things with anybody

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that um has a problem with it so we can

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come to a decision that

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you know follows the rules of the town.

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>> Okay. Um and and if it were in conflict

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with other commissioners, what what

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would your sense be? Well, I would hope

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we could talk them out and figure out

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what the conflict is about and see um

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who is following the rules and who

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isn't.

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>> Okay.

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>> Conflict and obviously somebody is not

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following the town ordinances or laws.

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So, I would think that we have to come

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to a conclusion of what is going to work

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for this that you know any certain

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project um and that to follow the town

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ordinances.

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>> Okay. Thank you. All right. Let me open

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it up. Um, are there any other sort of

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short questions? I don't want to make

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this too long because we want to keep

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them. Generally, we try to make sure

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both applicants get the same set of

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questions. So, we can deviate a little

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bit, but let's not go like completely

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crazy. Um, Helen, I know you had

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something. Would you like to

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>> Sure. Am I the only one?

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>> No, we'll come back, but I got you on my

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left, so

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>> So, okay, great. Um,

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uh, you said that you were a general

274
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,720
contractor for your projects. I was the

275
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,399
general contractor for them. Yes.

276
00:10:56,399 --> 00:10:58,640
>> So, were you you're not

277
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,240
>> but you're not licensed

278
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,839
>> owner builder.

279
00:11:01,839 --> 00:11:05,040
>> Got it. Okay. And then um what how would

280
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,120
you feel about a conflict with the state

281
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,480
law?

282
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:09,440
>> A state law?

283
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:09,920
>> Right.

284
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,360
>> I can't tell you that I know anything

285
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,040
about a state law.

286
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,440
>> And do you have any sense like the state

287
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,279
laws that might over you know state

288
00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:20,079
>> state law?

289
00:11:20,079 --> 00:11:23,680
>> No, sorry. state, you know, state law

290
00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:27,440
about, you know, about um

291
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,920
about permitting situations

292
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,680
around housing

293
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,160
>> about what kind of standing through the

294
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,560
>> So, I'm sorry if I'm not clear. Let me

295
00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:40,000
start over. How um what is your

296
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,519
perspective on the town's

297
00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:47,200
code versus the state code

298
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,839
um around permitting for housing?

299
00:11:51,839 --> 00:11:54,959
I am all for the city the town codes

300
00:11:54,959 --> 00:11:57,839
wherever we can override the state

301
00:11:57,839 --> 00:12:01,440
codes. Um we we're here for a reason in

302
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,920
town. We're not we want to keep it a

303
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,720
rural town and

304
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,240
legally there's not much we can do about

305
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,200
it. We're going to have to follow

306
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,120
whatever the strongest law is. Whoever

307
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,519
has, you know, if the state overrides

308
00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:15,360
our laws, we have to go with it. But I

309
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,160
would do my best to try to work it out

310
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,880
where we can move in the direction of

311
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,959
our town codes.

312
00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:24,639
Okay. Thank you.

313
00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:26,480
>> All right. Other questions on this side?

314
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:27,120
>> Judith?

315
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,320
>> Yeah. Um, so if you think about the

316
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,320
current ASC if you've been listening in,

317
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,800
um, what complimentary

318
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,360
perspectives would you you bring?

319
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,279
Because everyone brings something

320
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:42,639
different. I want to hear what you think

321
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:43,839
you would bring.

322
00:12:43,839 --> 00:12:47,120
>> Okay. There's a couple on the ASC and

323
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,959
then Dana is a

324
00:12:48,959 --> 00:12:50,480
>> landscape architect.

325
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,959
>> I am not an architect, but I have a lot

326
00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:55,200
of history with the town and trying to I

327
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,360
my biggest thing would try to keep the

328
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,680
ruralness of the town going and not let

329
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,399
it let it fade away.

330
00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:04,800
>> Okay, other question.

331
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:06,480
>> I do. Um you had mentioned that Laura

332
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,040
Russell felt that the role for the ASC

333
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,480
was starting to go away. um how would

334
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,399
you recommend that its role evolve

335
00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:21,279
and I kind of um give the context of the

336
00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:23,600
you know the state rules or state laws

337
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,440
are sort of changing a lot on um on the

338
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,399
ability of discretionary um decision-m

339
00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:33,200
so how would you view the ASC's role

340
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,519
evolving in that context

341
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:37,120
>> I think just taking it to the best of

342
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,279
our ability such as where where

343
00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:42,720
buildings are built maybe we have um

344
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,120
more input of where on a property a

345
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,120
building is built, where you know what

346
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,800
they're made out of. Maybe we the ASC um

347
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,959
has the ability to see things in person

348
00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:57,430
and can um

349
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,800
talk people into working with the town's

350
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,760
rules rather than just what they can do

351
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,790
with stage rules.

352
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,560
» Okay.

353
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,320
Any other questions, Mary?

354
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,560
>> Yeah. Um

355
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:18,560
how how do you think you would deal with

356
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,720
the frustrations of being in a situation

357
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,560
where you can't do can't can't change

358
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:25,519
things but

359
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:28,720
>> but also uh in the context of being

360
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,519
having given a lot you know having

361
00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:33,519
you're going to actually there are there

362
00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:35,839
are certain things you have to do like

363
00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:39,120
disclosures and legal stuff that you

364
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,639
feel that you end up feeling like you're

365
00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:45,839
giving a lot uh and in in in return you

366
00:14:45,839 --> 00:14:49,360
don't necessarily get a lot of return.

367
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,560
How do you feel that will affect you as

368
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,000
far as your

369
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:54,959
>> as far as me?

370
00:14:54,959 --> 00:14:57,600
>> Yes. As far as your your satisfaction

371
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,800
with your role.

372
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,279
>> Okay. I myself will work as hard as I

373
00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:04,399
can to get done what I think needs to

374
00:15:04,399 --> 00:15:08,000
get done. Um just for just for an

375
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,120
example the sewer, you know, system deal

376
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,639
that I've been going through. I mean,

377
00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:14,320
I've gone through the HCD numerous

378
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,680
times, uh, just to see if we can get

379
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,800
what I want done, and obviously now we

380
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,040
can't. So, you mean when you've gone as

381
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,720
far as you can and you can't get, you

382
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:25,920
know, a better answer, then you have to

383
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,600
deal with what you got.

384
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,440
Good.

385
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,959
Okay. Anything else? No. Okay, Ellen,

386
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:36,079
thank you. Thank you very much.

387
00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:37,040
Appreciate your time.

388
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:38,320
>> Right. Thank you.

389
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,079
when if you go out the door, would you

390
00:15:40,079 --> 00:15:42,320
mind, you know, telling Sonia we're

391
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,870
ready for her?

392
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,320
» Uh, you know, that's up to you. I mean,

393
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,680
you're welcome to come back in for the

394
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,279
discussion if you want or you can come

395
00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:52,720
home and we'll let you know. So, what

396
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,240
whatever you'd prefer. We're

397
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,160
>> One thing I would like to reiterate is

398
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,040
that I am a full-time resident and I am

399
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,920
available all the time where

400
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,079
I believe the other applicant has a

401
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:05,920
home, you know, in different places. So

402
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,120
I don't know that you're here all the

403
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,320
time, but my availability and you know

404
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:11,440
is 100%.

405
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,079
>> Okay.

406
00:16:12,079 --> 00:16:42,790
>> Thank you.

407
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,590
Hello and welcome.

408
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,399
» So, we've got six questions that we sort

409
00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:52,079
of condense the first two. So, there'll

410
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:54,160
be, you know, we'll rotate among the

411
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,639
different council members. Um and then

412
00:16:56,639 --> 00:16:58,320
after that we'll ask a few open

413
00:16:58,320 --> 00:16:59,759
questions. Um and you're certainly

414
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:01,519
welcome to ask a few questions of us as

415
00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:04,720
well. So we'll open up again. Should we

416
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,120
just do the same order? Right. So Mary,

417
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:08,880
it's on you.

418
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,600
>> Welcome. Uh can you tell us about

419
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,760
yourself and and why you're interested

420
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,240
in serving in the ASC and and in that

421
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,640
context, what background or skills do

422
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,880
you bring that could contribute to your

423
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,000
role as an ASCC member?

424
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,160
And I'm Sonia Dylan. Thanks for having

425
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,960
me here. I live on Grove Drive. I've

426
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,320
lived here since 1990. I've seen a lot

427
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,280
of changes in this little town.

428
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,960
We used to have a town hall, city hall

429
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,000
around here. And a little cute little

430
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,600
place. And my background is I have a

431
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,840
degree in arts and also I'm a CPA. So

432
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,480
understand a lot of details and I worked

433
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,039
with architects. I was a advisor to

434
00:17:57,039 --> 00:17:59,360
architecture program at Stanford and

435
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,480
also at Tokyo University and I've lived

436
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,400
in Japan

437
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,919
and in Paris and a little bit in London.

438
00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:10,400
So I have exposure to many architecture

439
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,559
programs and out of deep interest in

440
00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:17,440
arts and architecture. I got involved in

441
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,559
these universities. The and I used with

442
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:22,799
my foundation I used the whole

443
00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:25,919
architectural design chet when we did at

444
00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:28,960
my poll house. We had all Stanford

445
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,360
student come and compete for a design

446
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,640
charette to challenge that they had to

447
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,720
design my little ADU many many years ago

448
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,320
to host artist for our foundation. And

449
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,600
we had five six professors from

450
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,320
different universities came to help them

451
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,720
do that design. And then we did similar

452
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,919
things in Japan in India. In India, we

453
00:18:55,919 --> 00:18:59,120
hosted a design cheret on public

454
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,840
toilets.

455
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,919
And in Japan, it was about

456
00:19:03,919 --> 00:19:06,320
sustainability in architecture. And then

457
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,080
we went and designed a old school for a

458
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,000
residence program that was destroyed

459
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,919
with the 2011 tsunami.

460
00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:18,400
And then I brought many architect

461
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,760
professors and structural engineers to

462
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,240
UNESCO to do similar conferences. So you

463
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,840
can see my passion in architecture. Um

464
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,080
and then

465
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,200
just also very passionate about details

466
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,919
and how to deal with people. And in my

467
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:40,000
tax and accounting practice, it's a lot

468
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,320
about estate and trusts and foundations.

469
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,559
And I just came by I was a little bit

470
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:48,160
late because today there was a

471
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,559
conference at Stanford on charitable

472
00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:52,880
giving. So we talked about death and

473
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,480
taxes. That's a se sensitive issue. And

474
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,240
so I feel about getting somebody's home

475
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,960
designed is a very personal and a

476
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,559
sensitive matter to be on AAC. Not only

477
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:09,919
you are helping people

478
00:20:09,919 --> 00:20:12,559
design something very sustainable and

479
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:15,440
fitting to pull valley, but it's also

480
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,520
very personal thing for people. So one

481
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,000
needs to bring that together in a very

482
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,080
collaborative way and listening to

483
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,640
recent AAC meetings it talks a lot about

484
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,440
how state is asking for the review to be

485
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,240
very uh objective not subjective and

486
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,720
that's where I think collaboration will

487
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,480
make so much different I have gone

488
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,280
through my own plans here more than once

489
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,720
so I know how you know you're designing

490
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,720
a home you're designing it maybe once in your lifetime

491
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,600
and the architect is selling you an idea

492
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:58,080
of a dream. And if we are not there with the family early on and we after

493
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,799
they have invested so much of their

494
00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:03,120
imagination into building this dream

495
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,360
with the architect and also spend a lot

496
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,320
of money on it then to tell them what is

497
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,360
okay or not okay is very adverse role.

498
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:15,600
If we are there early on, I understand

499
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,720
we are starting to do preliminary

500
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,440
liaison work. I think that will make a

501
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,679
whole difference.

502
00:21:23,679 --> 00:21:27,280
And then I feel to get our maintaining

503
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,440
our road idea for this town by focusing

504
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,559
on fire issues where we can guide people

505
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:37,919
not to have just these huge tall hedges

506
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:40,400
that in a row but little cluster of

507
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,640
things and using local the native plants

508
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,320
which are probably much more fire

509
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,039
resistant. So applying these kind of

510
00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:51,520
design ideas and helping them along.

511
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,679
Sometimes the architects are not from

512
00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:56,080
here. They're not familiar or often I

513
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,240
know architecture work people have a

514
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,600
certain style they do. They're not

515
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,600
always so flexible to think what pull

516
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,559
valley needs are. So if we can educate

517
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:10,240
our

518
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,200
uh our neighbors, I think we'll have

519
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,640
much more pleasant relationship of this

520
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,919
design planning. And a lot of people who

521
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:21,760
come to live in Pulla Valley, they could

522
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,600
live in Atheertton, they could live in

523
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,159
Las Hills, but they're attracted to this

524
00:22:26,159 --> 00:22:28,799
look. And so I think it's a very easy

525
00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:32,000
way to convince people how to bring

526
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,440
designs that will be such an easy cell

527
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,919
for A to approve if we were there with

528
00:22:37,919 --> 00:22:39,919
them from the very beginning. So that's

529
00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:44,070
sort of my little way.

530
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,110
» Thank you Rebecca.

531
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,200
So, are you prepared to dedicate the

532
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,520
time needed to review materials, attend

533
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,400
site visits, and stay engaged over a

534
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,720
multi-year term? Um, I know you've moved

535
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,360
back permanently now. So, maybe you

536
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:04,799
could just talk about whether what your

537
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:06,880
what you anticipate your availability.

538
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:07,600
Thanks.

539
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,919
>> I have moved back to also build my

540
00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:14,240
practice. So I will be here a lot and

541
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,000
estate and tax is similar detail work as

542
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,720
ASC and probably ASC will take me away

543
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,600
from doing taxes and estate planning. So

544
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,400
it's a nice way for me to stay fresh.

545
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,360
>> Thank Judith.

546
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:31,840
>> Uh so do you have any conflicts of

547
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,480
interest or other situations that might

548
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,200
inhibit your ability to attend most

549
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,000
meetings? just kind of what what else do

550
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,520
we need to know about that?

551
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,559
>> I'm not not an professional architect. I

552
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:49,200
just love architecture.

553
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,720
>> But there's no uh your for example

554
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,240
Stanford is going to come up potentially

555
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,799
because there's people that have some

556
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:00,640
affiliations in town that might be

557
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,559
applicants. I don't I don't know if you

558
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:04,159
>> I'm not affiliate to Stanford. I

559
00:24:04,159 --> 00:24:05,039
wasending.

560
00:24:05,039 --> 00:24:07,120
>> Yeah. And no other affiliations. Okay.

561
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:08,400
That's really what that question's

562
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,600
about. Thank you.

563
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,279
>> Okay, now I understand.

564
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:12,320
>> Yeah,

565
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,919
>> Mary.

566
00:24:13,919 --> 00:24:17,760
>> Uh, no. It's I my question.

567
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,200
>> Oh, did you You're right at the

568
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,799
beginning. My apologies. Just I'm just

569
00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:22,480
kind of in a It's been It's been a long

570
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,640
day already. My My apologies.

571
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,760
>> Longer day.

572
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,799
>> Yeah, it's going to be a longer day, but that's a different story.

573
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:32,159
>> Okay. This is two twoprong question, so

574
00:24:32,159 --> 00:24:34,880
it's a long one, too. How familiar are

575
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,279
you with the town's m municipal code and

576
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:39,679
design guidelines particularly as they

577
00:24:39,679 --> 00:24:42,480
relate to the architecture and site plan

578
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,200
review and second portion of the

579
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,039
question how would you use those

580
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:50,080
standards along with the submitted plans

581
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,799
reports and data to make well-reasoned

582
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:55,440
decisions on applications including

583
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,279
determining whether to recommend

584
00:24:57,279 --> 00:25:00,240
approval denial or conditions

585
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,960
>> having lived in this town for 35 years

586
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,200
and Having gone through those approval

587
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,120
processes

588
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:09,600
I can tell you from my lot of personal

589
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,120
experiences a lot of the time people are

590
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,640
not familiar if we guide them it's very

591
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,480
easy cell to explain people how to get

592
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,640
what they dreamed of building in this

593
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,080
town if I understood your question

594
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,640
>> let me just make sure like first the for

595
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,840
I'll ask the first p portion first how

596
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,600
familiar are you with the town's

597
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,880
municipal code and design guidelines.

598
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,360
>> I have I have gone through getting my

599
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:42,799
whole house redone. So I had to take

600
00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:43,679
>> I'm sorry I couldn't

601
00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:47,600
>> I understand the uh the town's rules

602
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,480
because I have had my house redone.

603
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,960
>> Okay. And the second portion then of the

604
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,720
question, thank you for the first

605
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,840
portion. How would you use those

606
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,520
standards

607
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,600
um when making a decision?

608
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,400
>> And that's where I would say most of the

609
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,799
time I think the challenge comes people

610
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:10,880
were not familiar with things at the

611
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,039
level they needed to be and it's the

612
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:16,400
architect who's guiding them and that's

613
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,159
where the conflict comes. If if we are

614
00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:22,559
there from the beginning even we can

615
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:24,799
guide the architect and so the dreams

616
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:30,630
can be built according to town's idea.

617
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,120
» Great. Thank you.

618
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,000
All right. Then the last one of our sort

619
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,480
of fix set. Um how do you approach

620
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,320
acting in good faith and upholding your

621
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,919
fiduciary responsibility to the

622
00:26:41,919 --> 00:26:44,320
community especially when your findings

623
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,480
may conflict with other commissioners or

624
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,679
face public opposition?

625
00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:51,360
I say that question again please.

626
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,039
>> So this question is you need to act in

627
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:58,000
good faith. Um and it may be that when

628
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,159
you do you're going to be in conflict

629
00:27:00,159 --> 00:27:02,880
potentially with other commissioners or

630
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,279
um the public might be in opposition to

631
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:07,679
what your uh your position is. How would

632
00:27:07,679 --> 00:27:09,120
you deal with that?

633
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,600
>> On that I can come to my role as being

634
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,559
on board of governance in especially

635
00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:17,039
familyowned businesses. You constantly

636
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:20,240
have to walk that line and you have to

637
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,400
stay very objective. At the same time,

638
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,360
you have to make a point where you are

639
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,559
solid. And when it's not that critical,

640
00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:31,679
don't don't

641
00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:33,600
put too much stress on it. If it's

642
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,200
critical, you take a stand and people

643
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,120
know what you stand for and objectively.

644
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,279
>> Okay. Um, follow on questions.

645
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:43,840
Judith,

646
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,679
>> I'll ask the same one I asked last time,

647
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:48,480
which is I if you've been watching the

648
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,480
ASC, you've seen the different

649
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,240
perspectives they already bring. What

650
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,720
would be your special perspective that

651
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,440
you would bring to that body?

652
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,600
Um I have lot of experience with

653
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,960
architecture globally and how new

654
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,200
materials are being used and how

655
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,919
sustainability in architecture is such a

656
00:28:11,919 --> 00:28:13,600
great play. For example, I've worked

657
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,240
very closely with Kangokuma who is the

658
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,559
architect who designed the Olympic

659
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:22,159
stadium in Japan. He's famous and he

660
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:25,440
sort of he's famous for using wood and

661
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,679
he created a beautiful building in Japan

662
00:28:29,679 --> 00:28:32,320
just with bamboo.

663
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,120
>> Mhm.

664
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:37,440
>> And it's so aesthetically

665
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,320
so minimal and just blends into the

666
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,640
forest behind it. It's that that kind of

667
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,240
soft touch patch which is so so great

668
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,720
for for Pollola Valley that you you are

669
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,559
living with the nature. Another example

670
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:59,360
is there's a I organized Stanford

671
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,440
students to go and see Isha Jingu

672
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,679
shrine. That's the main shrine in Japan

673
00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:06,880
for shin. This is like

674
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,120
of Shinduism. But it's a tiny hat

675
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,880
and tiny hat represents a huge stature

676
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,520
and you can only get in there permission

677
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,760
of the agriculture ministry because it's

678
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,840
under them

679
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,799
and every 20 years they rebuild that

680
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:27,200
little hut.

681
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,440
But the size of the structure is very

682
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,799
small. But it's the procedure and the

683
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:35,600
process of going through that ritual

684
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,480
building is where it has its meaning.

685
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,279
And they have a whole forest where they

686
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:45,120
plant trees 100 years in advance and

687
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,200
they will leave for that little hut.

688
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,360
It's these kind of things of a lot of

689
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,960
our neighbors will be happy to leave a

690
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,840
legacy and leaving a legacy of Pollola

691
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,200
Valley stays Polla Valley is a beautiful

692
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,840
legacy. When you come on Alpine Road,

693
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,480
the Sun forget when I used to work for

694
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,080
Cisco, I still remember I would write I

695
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,960
would forget Cisco.

696
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,960
Those are early days of Cisco. So you

697
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,279
need it for

698
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:20,240
and that's sort of if I'm getting on the

699
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,200
tending but this is sort of my

700
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,120
>> Thank you

701
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,799
Rebecca question.

702
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:29,840
>> Yeah. Um how would you recommend that

703
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,640
the ASC evolve in its role?

704
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,120
I think we need to be collaborative

705
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,640
as

706
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,799
the state is pushing on many of the

707
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:45,840
things and how can we do an objective uh

708
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,880
review while maintaining the ideals that

709
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,720
we want to maintain of Polla Valley. We

710
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,200
have to be extremely collaborative. We

711
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,600
can also use the ideas what are

712
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,720
necessary for fire safety again that can

713
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,399
be very objective but can still achieve

714
00:31:04,399 --> 00:31:07,440
the goal of what we want petrole to be

715
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,880
and I feel it will be such an easy sell

716
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,960
people who buy to live here they want

717
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,960
that look

718
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,960
>> otherwise they can a place in African

719
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,000
it's such an easy sell if we just go

720
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,480
with that mindset and explain to to the

721
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,559
people who are about to design. So they

722
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:32,159
feel like they come to A to start their

723
00:31:32,159 --> 00:31:35,039
design process not to get policed at the

724
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:36,640
end

725
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,200
and then we don't need to have architect

726
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:45,509
coming with other we won't need that

727
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:48,000
Mary

728
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,919
>> well I'll try for my uh previous

729
00:31:49,919 --> 00:31:52,720
question um there there's certain amount

730
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,120
uh frustrations in this position as that

731
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,960
you've described which is that you're a

732
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,640
person who's used a fair amount of

733
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,039
success and things move in your

734
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:03,840
direction when you ask them to. Uh that

735
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,799
won't always be the case here. Uh how do

736
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:08,880
you think you would deal with the

737
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,240
frustration of being

738
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,360
putting yourself out in this way and how

739
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,200
would it personally how would you

740
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,200
personally cope with it?

741
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,039
If if people know you are your position

742
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:29,120
is very transparent, you build trust. If

743
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,960
your position is not very transparent

744
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,039
and very

745
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:36,080
you have an objectical reason that where

746
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,399
you're reaching and you can explain your

747
00:32:38,399 --> 00:32:40,159
logic,

748
00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:43,200
you build trust.

749
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:49,029
It's it's not so difficult build that.

750
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:49,919
Thank you. If

751
00:32:49,919 --> 00:32:52,399
>> if you're honest about your ways and

752
00:32:52,399 --> 00:32:54,880
it's and you're also willing to listen

753
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,799
to others point of view, sometimes maybe

754
00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:58,640
their point is better. So you don't have

755
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,880
to stay in your position unnecessary.

756
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,760
>> We are all here. We are all here to do

757
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,720
something out of pleasure. We have

758
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,350
plenty of other things to do.

759
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,480
» Thank you, Ellen.

760
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,159
>> Thank you. Um, what would you do if you

761
00:33:18,159 --> 00:33:23,200
were on ACC, ASCC, excuse me, and um,

762
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,760
the town code, municipal code was in

763
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:32,789
conflict with the state code.

764
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:38,789
» The state code,

765
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:42,159
» right, thank you.

766
00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:45,200
>> All right. Thank you. Um, Katherine, do

767
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,320
we have public comment here or Okay, so

768
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,559
this would be the time. All right. So,

769
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:52,559
that's the end of our questions. Um,

770
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:54,720
you're welcome to stay or leave. That's

771
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,039
your choice. Um, what we'll do is take

772
00:33:57,039 --> 00:33:59,200
public comment. Then we'll discuss it

773
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,960
among ourselves. We'll make a decision

774
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,320
and we'll let you know one way or

775
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,399
another. So, your choice whether you

776
00:34:04,399 --> 00:34:06,080
stay or if you want to, you know, let

777
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,560
us, we can let you know um through a

778
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,320
phone call or email or whatever. So,

779
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,320
thank you for coming. Thank you for

780
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:18,790
applying.

781
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,879
» All right, so with that, I'm going to

782
00:34:20,879 --> 00:34:23,760
open up public comment.

783
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:36,710
And the first person is Nan Chest

784
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:44,310
and you there

785
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,240
not muting. All right. Well, there we

786
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:48,879
go.

787
00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:49,280
>> Yes,

788
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,119
>> we got you. Yep. Yep. You're there. Go

789
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:51,440
ahead.

790
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,760
>> Okay. probably loud and clear. Okay.

791
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,040
>> Loud and clear.

792
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,280
>> Yeah. Council members, thank you all for

793
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,160
the opportunity to speak. I urge you to

794
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,440
appoint Ellen Vernaza to ASCC

795
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,760
because first, she has a deep

796
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,520
understanding of Pollola Valley's

797
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,760
fundamental values and she has worked

798
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,760
hard to preserve the rural feel of the

799
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,119
town. She's had committee experience as

800
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:18,000
chair of trails and paths,

801
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,880
so she understands town procedures. She

802
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,960
is a quick study and she'd come up to

803
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,599
speed rapidly on town ordinances and

804
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:28,160
state codes that she'd need for working

805
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,480
on ASC.

806
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,040
She's had valuable firsthand experience

807
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,200
constructing buildings here in Portola

808
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,920
Valley.

809
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,040
And finally, I think it's important for

810
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,520
ASC commissioners to understand the

811
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,320
interplay between natural hazards and

812
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,200
here talking about mainly fire and

813
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,720
earthquake, flood, landslide, not

814
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,720
between natural hazards and our built

815
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:58,000
environment. Ellen is a very strong

816
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,320
advocate for safety.

817
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,040
I appreciated her having taken the time

818
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,119
to attend one of the geological safety

819
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:07,839
committee meetings a couple of years ago

820
00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:10,320
when we were first discussing evacuation

821
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,520
for wildfire following an earthquake.

822
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,359
Ellen offered several important

823
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:17,680
observations that we later incorporated

824
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,680
into our thinking and the final report.

825
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,000
I think Ellen's unique experience and

826
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,599
perspectives would make her a very

827
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:28,400
valuable member of ASC.

828
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,400
Thank you.

829
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:37,030
Nan. Lesie,

830
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,880
» good evening and thank you for taking my

831
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,480
call. I'm calling in support of Ellen's

832
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,200
nomination to ASCC.

833
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,079
Ellen has deep long-term roots in this

834
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:51,520
community and a deep understanding of of

835
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,920
how this community works. She's well

836
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:59,680
respected within the community and knows the community. As the former

837
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,280
chairs of the chair of the trail

838
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,839
committee, she has a deep understanding

839
00:37:03,839 --> 00:37:06,640
of the infrastructure um and town

840
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,839
process as well. Ellen has a reputation

841
00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:12,560
for delivering results, indicating that

842
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,320
she could hit the ground running in this

843
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,920
position.

844
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,760
She brings a different perspective as

845
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,200
well to ASCC. As one on the other side

846
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,599
of the table in front of the architect,

847
00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:26,160
the landscape architect who are already

848
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,240
on the committee. We have those

849
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,440
positions. Ellen fills a unique niche.

850
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,320
Um she squares the circle, if you will.

851
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,359
Her recent ADU buildout provides a rich

852
00:37:37,359 --> 00:37:40,720
experience of the Bullah Valley consumer

853
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:43,920
experience involved in building in the

854
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,599
current climate.

855
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:47,359
In addition, I've worked with Ellen on

856
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:49,040
other projects, and I know her to be a

857
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,119
person who can manage a prodigious

858
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:54,320
workload and produce results with a

859
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,400
cheerful continence. Even when things

860
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:57,839
are getting a little bit hairy, she's

861
00:37:57,839 --> 00:38:00,640
usually the one to make a joke or

862
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,640
lighten the mood and just keep on

863
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,200
plowing on. She's also a pleasure to

864
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,640
work with. So, I respectfully request um

865
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,320
advancing her nomination to the ASCC

866
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,320
position. Thank you so much for

867
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,720
listening to my thoughts.

868
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:22,790
>> Thank you, Leslie. Rita,

869
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,560
» good evening. Thank you for taking my

870
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,079
comment. I also support Ellen Bernaza in

871
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:30,800
her quest to become a member of Pollola

872
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,680
Valley's ASC. I bought my property in

873
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,599
2009 and attended many ASC and planning

874
00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:40,079
meetings before I had to then attend my

875
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:42,720
own for my build. with our current

876
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,520
members on the ASC. I personally feel

877
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,280
that Ellen would be a great addition to

878
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,200
that group.

879
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,800
She has been very active in the

880
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,599
community, has been on other committees,

881
00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:58,000
and even ran for town council, which is

882
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,400
an example of how close she feels to

883
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,040
uplifting the continued care of our

884
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,359
community, just like all of you up there

885
00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:08,480
on the dis. So, I really appreciate her

886
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,680
stepping up to being part of this group.

887
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,079
um you know like she had said in her

888
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:16,880
opening uh you know Laura Russell said

889
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,880
that oh there's going to be no need for

890
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,680
ASC in the future with all these state

891
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,320
rules but there is uh a real need for a

892
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,079
continu a continued community presence

893
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:32,880
and views and the past couple of years

894
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,359
without having meetings or people having

895
00:39:35,359 --> 00:39:38,320
to be recused for one thing or another I

896
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,440
feel that her addition will have more

897
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,960
meetings that we desperately need

898
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,560
with all of the builds that are coming

899
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,359
up and, you know, bring us more of a

900
00:39:49,359 --> 00:39:51,520
community what we're trying to do and

901
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,680
move things forward. So, thank you for

902
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,680
listening.

903
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,079
>> Thank you, Reena.

904
00:39:58,079 --> 00:39:59,440
All right, with that, I don't see any

905
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,200
hands in the schoolhouse. I don't see

906
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,040
any other hands online. So, I'm going to

907
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,560
close public comment and bring it back

908
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,950
to the council for discussion.

909
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,520
would like to go first.

910
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,680
Ellen, would you mind?

911
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:13,839
Are

912
00:40:13,839 --> 00:40:15,440
>> we starting? We're starting with

913
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:16,960
comments.

914
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,640
>> Are we starting with questions? I'm

915
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:19,280
sorry.

916
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,920
>> So, this is decision time. This is

917
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,839
>> Do you want my vote right now? What are

918
00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:24,560
you asking?

919
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,440
>> I mean, you So, you can talk about what

920
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,800
you thought you heard and what you

921
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,839
thought is important. Um, and where

922
00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:34,480
you're leaning. That's probably the best

923
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:40,160
way to go at it. Um so uh so I will say

924
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,760
you know both candidates are strong. Um

925
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,599
I am concerned um obviously people don't

926
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:49,839
always understand the situation that the

927
00:40:49,839 --> 00:40:53,119
town is in dealing with the state. Um

928
00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:56,160
and so that uh you know that was part of

929
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,599
the reason that I asked about the

930
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:01,280
conflict with the state. um you know and

931
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,720
Ellen said you know um she would

932
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,280
override the state code

933
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,880
um

934
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,440
which you we we can't do right um and

935
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,400
you know we really love Katherine but we

936
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,560
really need to make sure that we don't

937
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,000
spend too much time with you

938
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,200
so so not to make light of it but I

939
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,760
really you know we can't afford lawsuits

940
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,880
um so that actually, you know, that

941
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,000
really concerned me. Um,

942
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,079
so I actually think I would go with

943
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:38,800
Sonia um because of her deeper

944
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,839
understanding of our of of our municipal

945
00:41:41,839 --> 00:41:44,240
code. While I strongly believe Ellen

946
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:48,640
could learn, um, I do appreciate that um

947
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,960
that Sonia already is more familiar with

948
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,920
it. So that's where I'm leaning. Thank

949
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:54,319
you.

950
00:41:54,319 --> 00:41:58,000
>> Thank you, Mary.

951
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,680
Well,

952
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,520
I think we're extremely lucky to have

953
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:07,520
two really talented uh u candidates. Um

954
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,800
I think both of them grasp the situation

955
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,680
uh very well. Um and both have their own

956
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,400
way of communicating um their their

957
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,599
grasp. Um, I um was very impressed with

958
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:27,040
Sonia that uh she she totally got it

959
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,839
about how you got to get them early and

960
00:42:29,839 --> 00:42:32,160
uh talk them through it or else and

961
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,960
that's the way to get what we want out

962
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,839
of our community. That's the that's the

963
00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:39,680
it's the non-legalistic way of

964
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,760
approaching this is actually having

965
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,160
people who commit in their design early

966
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,280
enough to actually get it uh get it

967
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,599
right. uh and I I totally um see that

968
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:54,000
her qualifications and her perspective

969
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,760
are valuable to the town. So um I think

970
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,200
that uh she will be a long-term a

971
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,280
wonderful asset as she spends more time

972
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,640
in our town and and gets to know us

973
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:13,280
better. Uh Ellen has u a very very long

974
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,800
uh she's she but one of the things we've

975
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,400
lost um and that we discuss having lost

976
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,839
is our um historic perspective. Uh and

977
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:28,640
um

978
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,040
we we we need both historic perspective

979
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,160
and um modern concepts coming forward.

980
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,319
But uh as far as historic perspective,

981
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:41,599
Ellen's pretty much grew up here uh with

982
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:43,520
the town and has gone through a lot of

983
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:49,280
changes in multiple houses, etc. Um and

984
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,440
uh represents the can represent the

985
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,319
historic perspective, which we we don't

986
00:43:56,319 --> 00:43:59,760
want to lose. Um

987
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,400
she gets it. uh and nobody's going to

988
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,359
let her uh break the law in her position

989
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:08,160
on the SECI. I don't think we have to

990
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,200
worry about her her uh single-handedly

991
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,119
being able to get us to in trouble. Um

992
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:20,160
but uh I I feel that Ellen at this time

993
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,520
in her life u this is an ideal

994
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,160
opportunity for her uh and um both from

995
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,480
the town's point of view bringing more

996
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,560
of the bringing a deep historic

997
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,640
perspective and and the the uh return of

998
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,400
her energy

999
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,160
um

1000
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,640
and her desire to really be able to give

1001
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,440
to the town right now. Um, so I would

1002
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,839
support Ellen.

1003
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:49,520
>> Thank you, Judith.

1004
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,400
>> Sure. Um, we are indeed very fortunate

1005
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,960
in this town. Every time we come up to

1006
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,280
interview people, I'm kind of blown away

1007
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,680
with their background and their their

1008
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,240
energy. So, I thank them both. Um,

1009
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:06,960
you know, we've got an interesting uh

1010
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,440
opportunity here, but when I think about

1011
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,800
what does the ASCC actually

1012
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,960
need right now, and I think there's a

1013
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,000
lot of work to do, and that's going to

1014
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,839
be pretty continual. uh things like

1015
00:45:21,839 --> 00:45:24,240
objective standards be being renovated

1016
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:27,119
and developed, things like

1017
00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:29,920
reimagining a process where candidates

1018
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,440
can not be surprised and before they get

1019
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,240
too far in the the process. All of that

1020
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,200
is going to take a lot of discussion and

1021
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,839
rethinking and different perspectives.

1022
00:45:41,839 --> 00:45:45,040
So, at the end of the day, I also will

1023
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,200
support Ellen. Um, I think she um she

1024
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,359
said she'd follow rules and she's not an

1025
00:45:51,359 --> 00:45:54,480
attorney. So, I think um that she wants

1026
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,200
to override the state. Uh at the end of

1027
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,640
the discussion, she said if if the state

1028
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,000
trumps, the state trumps. I'm

1029
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,160
paraphrasing there. That's what I heard.

1030
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,920
But at the end of the day, that's a

1031
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,800
lawyer's call and legal advice needs to

1032
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,960
be brought to bear. We can't avoid that

1033
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,240
and I wouldn't want to avoid that. um

1034
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:17,359
she's visible and at a lot of the town

1035
00:46:17,359 --> 00:46:21,440
council and other uh committee uh

1036
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,760
meetings and weighing in and following

1037
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,400
up with, you know, her own endeavors to

1038
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,000
figure out HCD and her ADU rules. I

1039
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,680
admire that and um clearly is in a

1040
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,520
position to put in the hard work and has

1041
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,760
done already. So, I would um support

1042
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,359
Ellen.

1043
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:41,680
>> Thank you, Rebecca.

1044
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,119
Um I agree that we are fortunate to have

1045
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,640
two candidates um apply for this. Uh we

1046
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,280
have had problems finding enough people.

1047
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,440
Hence we've had an opening for over a

1048
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,040
year. Um I would say both have similar

1049
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:58,880
dedication to Portola Valley. Both have

1050
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,359
lived in this town the same time. Both

1051
00:47:01,359 --> 00:47:04,640
have understood um the changes in Porta

1052
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,520
Valley. Um both have seen that. Both

1053
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,680
have lived through it. both have the

1054
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,319
same historic perspective.

1055
00:47:12,319 --> 00:47:13,839
Um

1056
00:47:13,839 --> 00:47:16,560
but um I don't think there's any

1057
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,520
question in my mind um to support the

1058
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:20,720
candidate that has the most

1059
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:24,000
understanding both of our municipal code

1060
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,839
um as well as some of the challenges the

1061
00:47:25,839 --> 00:47:31,200
ASC has um going forward um in terms of

1062
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,200
how do you deal with a discretionary

1063
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,400
body that the state is taking away our

1064
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,760
ability to do discretionary decisionm

1065
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,920
um and there was only one candidate that

1066
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,440
really understood that and went into

1067
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,079
depth about that. Um, and that would be

1068
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:50,160
Sonia. Um, Sonia also brings with her a

1069
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,520
unique perspective of having worked with

1070
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,160
multiple architects all over the world

1071
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,720
and I think it's really important to be

1072
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,040
able to bring that into our town. It's

1073
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,800
such a unique ability. Um and to be able

1074
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,800
to synchronize that uh perspective from

1075
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,760
how how traditional building is has been

1076
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,160
happening in in uh Japan for example. Um

1077
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,119
to bring that that um perspective to

1078
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:20,960
Portulla Valley where we are trying as

1079
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,440
much as possible to maintain this this

1080
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,640
similar kind of ideals of of creating

1081
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,920
buildings that that um live within our

1082
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,839
natural surroundings.

1083
00:48:31,839 --> 00:48:33,359
um

1084
00:48:33,359 --> 00:48:35,119
making them it's one of the key points

1085
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:36,880
of our design guidelines is really

1086
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,760
making our building subservient to to

1087
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,480
our land and to our space and she gets

1088
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,520
it. Sonia gets that. Um while I uh

1089
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,160
realize that Ellen is very dedicated and

1090
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,480
you know is willing to step in there and

1091
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,800
get going. it was clear and she said so

1092
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,200
herself very many times that she doesn't

1093
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,680
have any background in our codes in our

1094
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,680
municipal but she's willing to learn and

1095
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,760
I appreciate very much her offer of that

1096
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,280
but um being able to step on the ACC and

1097
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,760
be productive uh day one is is really

1098
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,359
important given how much stuff is coming

1099
00:49:09,359 --> 00:49:12,720
before us and to have someone who has um

1100
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:14,240
both the qualifications and the

1101
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:17,040
perspective and and has the the artistic

1102
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,920
views and the artistic background um and

1103
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,160
the aesthetic background around and and

1104
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,119
understands how important it is as the

1105
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:28,559
ASC's role will start evolving

1106
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:30,800
um to understand that we need to get

1107
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,319
ahead of that. We need to start working

1108
00:49:32,319 --> 00:49:34,720
with architects and applicants very

1109
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:37,200
early in the process so that we can

1110
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,119
guide them to create a collaborative um

1111
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:43,760
uh and beneficial organization

1112
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,319
commission instead of a an argumentative

1113
00:49:46,319 --> 00:49:48,800
one. Um I think there's no question I

1114
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,200
support Sonia

1115
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,520
Thank you.

1116
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,520
So, as my fellow council members have

1117
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,040
said, we are blessed with two great

1118
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,640
candidates. I wish I could just pick two

1119
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,839
and that would be the easy solution. Um,

1120
00:50:01,839 --> 00:50:04,319
since I think they both bring

1121
00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:05,839
interesting qualifications to the

1122
00:50:05,839 --> 00:50:07,440
position.

1123
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,599
I think when I think about ASC and

1124
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:13,200
particularly what I see coming up um of

1125
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,000
the next year or so, we've got objective

1126
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,359
standards. Um there there are a number

1127
00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:21,839
of different

1128
00:50:21,839 --> 00:50:24,240
sort of collaborative issues as well as

1129
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,240
sort of helping get these objective

1130
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:28,079
standards moving forward which I think

1131
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:29,839
are going to be critical given the

1132
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:34,480
current state laws. So I'd say I want to

1133
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,640
be careful. I say reluctantly I will

1134
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,160
support Sonia but not because I'm

1135
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,079
reluctant about Sonia but that I think

1136
00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:43,040
we have two really good candidates. Um

1137
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,359
and so it I find this decision hard. So,

1138
00:50:45,359 --> 00:50:49,839
it's the decision. I'm reluctant, not the candidates. So, with that, I

1139
00:50:49,839 --> 00:50:52,480
would entertain a motion.

1140
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,040
>> I would like to entertain a motion to uh

1141
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:59,119
appoint Sonia Dylan to the ASC.

1142
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:00,480
>> And I'll second that.

1143
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,119
>> All right. All in favor say I.

1144
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:05,680
>> I.

1145
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,599
>> Those opposed.

1146
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:10,800
Okay. N. All right. So, we have a vote

1147
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,440
three to two. Do we need anything else,

1148
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,440
Katherine? you're reaching for your

1149
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,640
>> I just want to make sure the clerk

1150
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,400
recorded the vote since it wasn't yet by

1151
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,640
roll call but um the the vote is

1152
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,720
recorded as three to two. Um nope

1153
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:23,839
nothing else needed. Thank you.

1154
00:51:23,839 --> 00:51:27,680
>> Okay, great. Thank you. So then um if

1155
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,359
you will let So well Sonia's here so

1156
00:51:29,359 --> 00:51:30,880
she'll know but if you'll still formally

1157
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,960
let her know um and you'll also let

1158
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,480
Ellen know as well and tell her how much

1159
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,520
we appreciate her um coming. So thank

1160
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,599
you. All right, with that I'm going to

1161
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:42,960
close this session and we have four

1162
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:47,990
minutes to the next one.

1163
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,000
So, take a quick break. Grab a bite to

1164
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:55,510
eat, whatever you need. Thank you.

1165
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,880
» Welcome. Good evening. Um, I'm going to

1166
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,640
call this meeting to order. This is the

1167
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,599
Porto Valley Town Council. I'd like to

1168
00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:07,040
start with roll call.

1169
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,280
Council member Walter present.

1170
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,240
>> Council member Hasco here. Council

1171
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:15,040
member Flynn here. Vice Mayor Hufty

1172
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:15,599
>> here.

1173
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:16,480
>> Mayor Taylor

1174
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:16,960
>> present.

1175
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,079
>> We have a quorum.

1176
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:20,559
>> Thank you. All right. First thing on the

1177
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:22,240
agenda, we have presentations and

1178
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:24,960
proclamations. So the first proclamation

1179
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,119
is a proclamation for mental health

1180
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:29,520
awareness month. I have a short

1181
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,160
statement I was asked to read. So

1182
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,760
tonight, I am proud to proclaim May 2026

1183
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,680
as mental health awareness month in

1184
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,400
Portola Valley, joining a historic

1185
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,559
countywide commitment to treat mental

1186
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:45,599
health, sorry, mental well-being is a

1187
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:47,359
foundational public good for every

1188
00:52:47,359 --> 00:52:50,400
generation. This year's theme, mental

1189
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,720
health is ours, reminds us that while

1190
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:55,680
13% of our local adults and over a

1191
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,079
quarter of our youth face significant

1192
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:00,720
emotional distress, we can overcome

1193
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:02,240
these challenges through collective

1194
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:04,960
action and community support. By

1195
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,880
increasing awareness and ending the

1196
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,040
stigma today, we honor our

1197
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:10,880
responsibility to ensure that all

1198
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,960
members of our community, from our youth

1199
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,440
to our seniors, have equitable access to

1200
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,160
the resources they need to thrive. So

1201
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,960
that's my opening remarks on mental

1202
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,079
harness mental health awareness month.

1203
00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:25,920
And then the second piece is we have a

1204
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,280
presentation by um Scott Granite. And

1205
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,000
Mary, I'd let you introduce him.

1206
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,480
>> Well, it's my great pleasure to

1207
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,119
introduce uh Scott. He and I practiced

1208
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:39,599
together somewhere between 20 and 30

1209
00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:41,599
years at the Palo Alto Medical

1210
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:45,359
Foundation. Uh I can say that uh he has

1211
00:53:45,359 --> 00:53:48,160
a deep and personal commitment to

1212
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,280
community well-being and mental health

1213
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,720
and has put himself and his life on the

1214
00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:57,920
line to make sure that everybody has a

1215
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,119
fair chance at recovery and and at

1216
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:05,119
healing. uh he he understands

1217
00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:10,079
um what community can offer and and uh

1218
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:13,280
my my uh my hope is that he'll give us

1219
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,559
some guidelines on how we can be a more

1220
00:54:16,559 --> 00:54:19,520
caring, compassionate, and healing

1221
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,119
community

1222
00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:22,800
um

1223
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,960
with understanding being the basis of

1224
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,359
the whole thing. So, welcome Scott and

1225
00:54:27,359 --> 00:54:30,640
thank you for coming because uh you are

1226
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:38,309
a very special person.

1227
00:54:38,319 --> 00:54:39,680
» And Scott, you're you're welcome to

1228
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,359
either the podium or the table,

1229
00:54:41,359 --> 00:54:43,200
whichever you prefer.

1230
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:44,880
>> Well, I think I'm okay at the podium

1231
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,160
since I'm here already.

1232
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:47,040
>> You got it.

1233
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,040
>> Okay. Well, thank you. Uh boy, you

1234
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,480
couldn't have a more charming place to

1235
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,960
have a city council.

1236
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,880
I was really pleased when Mary reached

1237
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,800
out to me and asked me to do this. Now,

1238
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,119
I will be speaking specifically about

1239
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:02,000
obsessivempulsive disorder tonight. Um,

1240
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,880
that's I've dedicated much of my career

1241
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,920
uh to working with OCD and related

1242
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,440
disorders, which I'll mention in a

1243
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,000
little bit. Um, but I'm really I'm not

1244
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,559
here representing myself. I really think

1245
00:55:14,559 --> 00:55:18,079
I'm more representing the OCD community.

1246
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:20,720
um a founding board member and former

1247
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:24,640
president of OCD San Francisco uh which

1248
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,680
is a one of 35 or so affiliate

1249
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,440
organizations connected to the

1250
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,920
international oation

1251
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,079
uh based in Connecticut. I'm sorry. They

1252
00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:35,359
used to be based in Connecticut. Now

1253
00:55:35,359 --> 00:55:38,079
they're based in uh in Boston. Uh and

1254
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:40,079
they truly are international in helping

1255
00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:43,599
people from uh from around the world.

1256
00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:46,160
When I when Mary first asked me to do

1257
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,880
this, um the timing really couldn't have

1258
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,599
been any better uh or worse depending on

1259
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:54,160
how you look at this. Um

1260
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,559
the International OCD Foundation puts

1261
00:55:56,559 --> 00:56:00,000
out a quarterly news. And the and I've

1262
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,359
brought some with me. I'm going to leave

1263
00:56:01,359 --> 00:56:03,920
them here for you all. Um but the cover

1264
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:08,079
story uh for this one is America's OCD

1265
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:09,920
Care Crisis,

1266
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,599
which is really important for people to

1267
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:13,440
understand. And the reason they they put

1268
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,160
it that way is that they re they did a

1269
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,400
study on OCD and found that there are 10

1270
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,480
million Americans live with this

1271
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,319
disorder and about half a million uh

1272
00:56:26,319 --> 00:56:29,359
children uh who live with OCD. Now keep

1273
00:56:29,359 --> 00:56:33,040
in mind with OCD um you know generally

1274
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,680
people are first show symptoms uh and

1275
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,480
two periods really one around the ages

1276
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,200
of 8 to 10 and then another area is

1277
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,240
around the ages of like 19 to 26. So the

1278
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:46,720
early early adult years it's pretty

1279
00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:48,720
uncommon to see somebody first develop

1280
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:51,599
symptoms of OCD uh later in life like

1281
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:53,359
past 40 perhaps. I mean it can happen

1282
00:56:53,359 --> 00:56:57,920
but it doesn't happen that way.

1283
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,960
I'm part of a Facebook group of

1284
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,599
therapists u who treat OCD and related

1285
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:06,160
disorder. And one of the things that one

1286
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,640
of the therapists made special note of

1287
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,079
is how important it is to educate people

1288
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:14,400
about OCD and try and have people

1289
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,799
understand that OCD just isn't about

1290
00:57:18,799 --> 00:57:21,839
handwashing and checking doors. Uh I

1291
00:57:21,839 --> 00:57:23,520
mean that sort of is in the, you know,

1292
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:24,960
the public domain. And I think that's

1293
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:26,400
what most people think about when they

1294
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,040
think about OCD. And granted, those are

1295
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,520
probably the most common forms of OCD.

1296
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,760
But OCD exists in a lot of in a lot of

1297
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,440
other ways. And I won't go over, you

1298
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,040
know, over all the ways that it may

1299
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,839
exist. Um, but I did make some some

1300
00:57:39,839 --> 00:57:42,880
notes just to mention that there are a

1301
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,119
very common form of OCD is what's called

1302
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:47,839
harm OCD. Uh, where people may have

1303
00:57:47,839 --> 00:57:50,000
intrusive thoughts that they're going to

1304
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,920
cause some harm to themselves or maybe

1305
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,319
to other people. An example of this is

1306
00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:56,160
often where people may be driving, they

1307
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:57,680
hit a bump in the road, you know, bump

1308
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,079
in the road and feel like maybe they've

1309
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:01,839
hit a person or an animal and have to

1310
00:58:01,839 --> 00:58:03,599
then travel, you know, maybe circle the

1311
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:05,839
block to make sure there's nobody there.

1312
00:58:05,839 --> 00:58:08,160
Now, and a very important part of OCD is

1313
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:09,920
to recognize that the thoughts that

1314
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,480
people are having are all intrusive.

1315
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,920
They don't want these thoughts. Uh

1316
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:15,280
they're very painful thoughts to have

1317
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,040
and they're really very different than

1318
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:18,640
who these people who they are. And what

1319
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,200
I mean by that is that some people have,

1320
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:22,960
you know, the sexual obsessions, you

1321
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,040
know, where they have thoughts about

1322
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:26,799
maybe, you know, doing things to young

1323
00:58:26,799 --> 00:58:29,680
children or animals even and and

1324
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,520
obviously it's all very it's all very

1325
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:33,200
disturbed and that's a very important

1326
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,720
part of it. I mean, as a clinician who

1327
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:39,359
treats OCD, I can tell very easily the difference between somebody

1328
00:58:39,359 --> 00:58:41,680
who's a pedophile, you know, versus who

1329
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:43,760
somebody has OCD and worries about being

1330
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,280
a pedophile. They're two very different

1331
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,760
things. the person with OCD is sort of

1332
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,599
tortured by these unwanted thoughts that

1333
00:58:49,599 --> 00:58:52,079
they're that they're having. Uh there's

1334
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:54,400
also what's called existential OCD. You

1335
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,799
know, people who sort of obsess over the

1336
00:58:56,799 --> 00:58:58,880
meaning of life.

1337
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:00,799
Just right OCD is another form. Let's

1338
00:59:00,799 --> 00:59:02,640
say you're walking down a sidewalk and

1339
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,440
you pass a leaf or a piece of paper or

1340
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,760
something. People with this form of OCD

1341
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,599
may have to stop and then just sort of

1342
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:12,480
take a look at what they see, identify

1343
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,319
it, be, you know, clearly identify what

1344
00:59:14,319 --> 00:59:17,680
it is before they can move on. Um,

1345
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,079
there's sensory motor OCD, uh, which is

1346
00:59:20,079 --> 00:59:22,079
a really tough one. Sensory motor is

1347
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:24,880
when people pay attention to

1348
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,119
normal physical sensations such as

1349
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:29,040
swallowing or their heartbeating or

1350
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,359
blinking or and and have to think about

1351
00:59:31,359 --> 00:59:33,680
it every time it occurs. So, if you can

1352
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,079
imagine in sitting here tonight and

1353
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:38,400
thinking about every time you blink, you

1354
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:39,599
probably haven't even given that a

1355
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:41,280
thought tonight, but you probably have

1356
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,760
blinked se many times already today, but

1357
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:45,760
can imagine having to think about it

1358
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,319
every time every time it happens.

1359
00:59:48,319 --> 00:59:50,559
There's relationship OCD where the focus

1360
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:52,799
of attention is on is on relationships.

1361
00:59:52,799 --> 00:59:54,480
Um, often times it could be somebody

1362
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,799
who's married, you know, really loves

1363
00:59:56,799 --> 00:59:58,480
his wife, let's say, and is tortured by

1364
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,079
thoughts of wondering if that's really

1365
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:02,480
true. So, this is just sort of a

1366
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,880
snapshot of the many different ways that OCD can show up. And I think it's

1367
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,960
just important to recognize that again,

1368
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,359
it's much more than what we typically

1369
01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:15,520
see on in TV shows. Um,

1370
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:20,630
okay.

1371
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,200
So, one of the reasons why like mental

1372
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:24,960
health awareness is so important and

1373
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:26,880
events like this is so important is that

1374
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,240
when it comes to OCD, people on average

1375
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,960
go seven years before they actually get

1376
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,440
a diagnosis. So, they may see therapist

1377
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,160
after therapist and people who and see

1378
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,480
therapists who don't really recognize uh

1379
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,000
that they have obsessivempulsive

1380
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,400
disorder. In this study that was done by

1381
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,119
the International OCD Foundation, they

1382
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:50,640
found that 75% of people with OCD never

1383
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,640
actually receive a diagnosis. I mean,

1384
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,640
that's just a astounding. 95% never

1385
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,960
receive appropriate care. I mean, to

1386
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:00,799
think at this day and age that that

1387
01:01:00,799 --> 01:01:02,640
number exists is just is just really

1388
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:07,520
outrageous. Um, and we know that there's good therapy out there. I mean

1389
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,240
there's you know treating again without

1390
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:11,680
going in tremendous detail you know

1391
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,160
treating OCD is very much very unlike

1392
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,559
other disorders uh it's not the

1393
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:19,119
traditional talk therapy it's not trying

1394
01:01:19,119 --> 01:01:20,799
to find out in somebody's background

1395
01:01:20,799 --> 01:01:22,799
what led to them developing OCD because

1396
01:01:22,799 --> 01:01:25,359
we know that OCD is primarily a

1397
01:01:25,359 --> 01:01:28,160
neurochemical problem in which certain

1398
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,240
you know functions in the brain aren't

1399
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,200
operating properly and so the therapy

1400
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:34,720
has nothing to do with traditional talk

1401
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,480
therapy it's all exposure therapy Y um

1402
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,480
and so it's cog a form of cognitive

1403
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,240
behavioral therapy called exposure and

1404
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,480
response prevention therapy and it's

1405
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,480
known to make for the same changes in

1406
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,440
the brain that medications can make. Um

1407
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,280
it's just a matter of seeing a therapist

1408
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,119
who knows who knows how to treat OCD.

1409
01:01:53,119 --> 01:01:55,200
Now having said that the best treatment

1410
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,200
of OCD is truly known to be a

1411
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,599
combination of medication um and

1412
01:01:59,599 --> 01:02:01,119
cognitive behavioral therapy

1413
01:02:01,119 --> 01:02:02,720
specifically exposure and response

1414
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,559
prevention therapy.

1415
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:07,440
There are some people who uh do very

1416
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,200
well without taking medication. That's

1417
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,040
fine. But in my opinion, most people who

1418
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,440
have a more moderate to severe way

1419
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:14,640
probably do need to be taking

1420
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,160
medication.

1421
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:17,920
One of the things that many people with

1422
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,400
OCD are faced with though is that there

1423
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,240
can be a tremendous amount of shame in

1424
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,559
living with this disorder. Um especially

1425
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:27,359
if you're somebody who has what's called

1426
01:02:27,359 --> 01:02:29,119
sort of the taboo obsessions, you know,

1427
01:02:29,119 --> 01:02:31,200
like about sex, about, you know, about

1428
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,359
children, about harm. A lot of people

1429
01:02:33,359 --> 01:02:35,760
have religious obsessions. Um, and so

1430
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,640
that shame too often prevents people

1431
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,079
from from getting the help that they

1432
01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:41,520
need. And again, that speaks to the

1433
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,520
importance of events like uh like this

1434
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,520
here today

1435
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:49,680
with the our group OCD San Francisco. Uh

1436
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,920
we've been around for about uh well,

1437
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,640
it's probably more than 30 years now. Uh

1438
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,720
what we can offer is that we do refer

1439
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,040
people to local support groups. Uh these

1440
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,240
support groups are all uh peerrun and

1441
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:03,839
they're free so there's no there's no

1442
01:03:03,839 --> 01:03:06,480
cost. Um I used to run some of them. I'm

1443
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,000
not running them uh any of them

1444
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,520
currently.

1445
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:14,079
Um we have a referral line or a um a

1446
01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:16,000
phone line where people they contact us

1447
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,839
either by email or by phone and we can

1448
01:03:17,839 --> 01:03:20,000
help them uh with referrals to uh

1449
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,520
clinicians in in the area. Uh we also

1450
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,599
have a annual OCD walk, excuse me, which

1451
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:29,280
is typically around Lake Merritt in

1452
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,119
Oakland and this year that's coming up.

1453
01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:34,240
I think we decided on uh sometime in in

1454
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,079
October. It's a great event. It's one

1455
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:38,079
it's our really the only fundraiser we

1456
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:40,240
do each year and it's sponsored along

1457
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,039
with the International OCD Foundation.

1458
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:45,359
Each year we also sponsor an event with

1459
01:03:45,359 --> 01:03:48,720
Stanford University. Um uh uh once a

1460
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,599
year there's the OCD awareness week. Um,

1461
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:53,359
and that's typically in the fall and

1462
01:03:53,359 --> 01:03:54,880
each fall we have an event on the

1463
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,599
Stanford campus uh with CD group that

1464
01:03:57,599 --> 01:03:59,680
does a lot of a lot of research. Uh, so

1465
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:00,880
if you're interested in that, I can

1466
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,119
certainly tell you more about that. Um,

1467
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:15,109
and let's see if that was anything else I wanted to mention. Um,

1468
01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:18,319
oh, with the IOCDF again, the

1469
01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:20,400
International OCD Foundation, of course,

1470
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,599
their, you know, their mandate is to

1471
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:26,720
help people with OCD and their families.

1472
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,680
However, they also talk about really OCD

1473
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,839
and related disorder. Uh, so it really

1474
01:04:31,839 --> 01:04:34,240
isn't just OCD. The other disorders that

1475
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,880
are considered related one being body

1476
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,359
dysmorphic disorder uh is which when the

1477
01:04:39,359 --> 01:04:41,680
focus of attention the obsessional focus

1478
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,000
is on how somebody looks. So it can look

1479
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,760
a lot like OCD since there's a lot of

1480
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,680
obsessive thinking and a lot of

1481
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,160
compulsive behaviors. Uh but because

1482
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,319
it's about physical appearance it's body

1483
01:04:52,319 --> 01:04:55,440
dysmorphic disorder. Uh there's also

1484
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,680
hoarding disorder. Hoarding has gotten a

1485
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,000
lot of attention in recent years. uh

1486
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,160
it's only very recently that hoarding

1487
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,720
was um given its own diagnosis. Years

1488
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,599
past it was just it was part of OCD. Uh

1489
01:05:07,599 --> 01:05:10,000
but now it has its own diagnosis. And

1490
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,799
the other two disorders that are on um

1491
01:05:12,799 --> 01:05:16,000
in this category are tricky.

1492
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,079
Trickotillamania is the compulsive hair

1493
01:05:18,079 --> 01:05:20,799
pulling and the skin picking disorder

1494
01:05:20,799 --> 01:05:22,960
also called excoriation.

1495
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,680
Um both of those trickotillamania and

1496
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,520
skip skinpicking fall under the heading

1497
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:29,440
of what's called body focused repetitive

1498
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,240
behaviors. Um in which also include like

1499
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,400
biting your fingernails or chewing the

1500
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:35,760
you know the your gums in your mouth or

1501
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,160
whatever. Uh so a lot of behaviors fall

1502
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,000
into that category. So it's just

1503
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,240
important to know that with the OCD

1504
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,240
Foundation we're not just talking about

1505
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,079
OCD itself. We're also talking about

1506
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:48,160
other disorders that are related uh to

1507
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:49,920
OCD.

1508
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,160
So, that's really what I have prepared

1509
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,160
um for tonight. I'm really happy that

1510
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:56,559
you all could uh join us, but um if

1511
01:05:56,559 --> 01:05:58,319
there's time for questions, if you want

1512
01:05:58,319 --> 01:06:00,079
to ask any questions, I'm happy to take

1513
01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:01,760
some questions. And by the way, as I

1514
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,160
said, I'll leave these newsletters here.

1515
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:05,599
Um these are it's really very

1516
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:07,520
informative. I should mention that the

1517
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,440
International OCD Foundation has a

1518
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,319
wonderful website. If you just go to

1519
01:06:12,319 --> 01:06:14,960
iocdf.org, org. They've got a ton of

1520
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:16,960
information regarding everything you

1521
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:18,559
could possibly think about regarding

1522
01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:21,280
OCD. Uh they also have an annual

1523
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:23,440
conference. They have two actually. Uh

1524
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,599
there's the one that's in person and

1525
01:06:25,599 --> 01:06:27,039
each year it's in a different part of

1526
01:06:27,039 --> 01:06:28,559
the country. This year it's going to be

1527
01:06:28,559 --> 01:06:32,720
in Seattle in uh July. Um two year two

1528
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,400
or three years ago was in San Francisco

1529
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:35,760
and I assume it's going to come back

1530
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,640
here within a few years. And we also

1531
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:40,880
have an online conference. people who

1532
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,520
can't uh attend the conference uh then

1533
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,720
they can participate in the online

1534
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,119
coming up in the fall. Also, with the

1535
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:51,119
in-person conference in Seattle, there

1536
01:06:51,119 --> 01:06:52,880
will be a streaming uh much of it will

1537
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,240
be streaming as well. So, if people

1538
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:55,359
can't make that, they're certainly

1539
01:06:55,359 --> 01:06:58,720
welcome to attend online. So, thank you

1540
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:00,240
all very much. I feel like I ran through

1541
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,640
a bunch of information. Um but any

1542
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:04,720
questions, I'm happy to answer.

1543
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,079
>> Well, thank you, Scott. That was an

1544
01:07:06,079 --> 01:07:07,680
informative presentation. You kind of

1545
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,079
gave us a glimpse into OCD. Um, are

1546
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:13,520
there any questions from the council?

1547
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,280
So, I think that was helpful. If you

1548
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,119
could leave the newsletters in the back,

1549
01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:20,160
that way we can pick some up and public

1550
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,119
>> on their way out. Um, usually if we have

1551
01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:24,720
any other comments from the public, it

1552
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:29,589
usually comes when I get to oral commun.

1553
01:07:29,599 --> 01:07:31,599
» Okay, sounds perfect. Great. Thank you.

1554
01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:32,319
very much.

1555
01:07:32,319 --> 01:07:34,160
>> Thank you all for having me.

1556
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:42,720
>> Thank you, Scott. I I picked up your workbook and I couldn't

1557
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,680
put it down. It was quite a problem. But

1558
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,039
any rate, it's it's quite engaging.

1559
01:07:49,039 --> 01:07:50,720
>> I didn't want to advertise myself, but

1560
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:52,079
now that Mary mentioned I did write a

1561
01:07:52,079 --> 01:07:54,400
board.

1562
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:55,440
>> All right. Thanks again.

1563
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:01,190
>> Yeah.

1564
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:02,640
» All right. Well, again, thank you,

1565
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:04,400
Scott. So, I'm going to move on to the

1566
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,280
town manager report.

1567
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,440
Yes, Darcy Smith, town manager. Keep it

1568
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,960
quick. So, I have exciting news, which

1569
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,000
is that the re-imagined Portola Valley

1570
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,880
Post was mailed and hopefully delivered

1571
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,679
this weekend. We do have some extra

1572
01:08:21,679 --> 01:08:25,600
copies. Thank you. Uh hopefully more

1573
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,440
people take the survey. There's a link

1574
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:30,000
down here. We've only had 33 responses

1575
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,560
and I think we sent out over 2,000 of

1576
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,359
these. So, I'm hoping someone maybe in

1577
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:39,920
the audience will scan the QR code. It asked only a few questions that I

1578
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:41,679
think the fastest one did it in a

1579
01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:44,319
minute. So, it's not one of those 30 or

1580
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:46,560
40 question surveys. And we will

1581
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,560
continue this. So, I'm open to ideas. I

1582
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,400
hope to work with like the conservation

1583
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:51,759
committee, which I see a representative

1584
01:08:51,759 --> 01:08:53,839
in the audience, emergency preparedness

1585
01:08:53,839 --> 01:08:56,719
committee, other committees um to

1586
01:08:56,719 --> 01:08:58,080
provide press because some of them as

1587
01:08:58,080 --> 01:08:59,839
part of the budget wanted to mail their

1588
01:08:59,839 --> 01:09:01,600
own postcard. So, this is much more

1589
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:03,839
fiscally responsible, but look for the

1590
01:09:03,839 --> 01:09:07,359
next one in early July. This weekend, we

1591
01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:09,199
have the horse fair, which is put on,

1592
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:11,359
but our by our amazing trails and paths

1593
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:13,279
committee right here at Town Center

1594
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:16,000
starting at 10:00 a.m. And this is

1595
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,920
exciting.

1596
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,319
Lots of horses. We also have the SAD

1597
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:22,719
Blitz coming up in May. And then I've

1598
01:09:22,719 --> 01:09:25,839
included a few dates here. And moving

1599
01:09:25,839 --> 01:09:27,440
forward, we'll make sure you know about

1600
01:09:27,440 --> 01:09:28,880
these dates early on in in the

1601
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:30,400
newsletter.

1602
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,040
Audits, another hot topic. We are

1603
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:34,480
working through the audits. There's four

1604
01:09:34,480 --> 01:09:36,319
here and we've gotten one completely

1605
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:38,000
done. We have a finance committee

1606
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:41,279
meeting next Tuesday at 4, but this item

1607
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:42,880
has been deferred from the finance

1608
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:45,040
committee review. They'll be looking at

1609
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,279
the budget in case that interests you.

1610
01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:49,920
Um, and so we continue to work on these

1611
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:51,759
and I'll update the dates as we have

1612
01:09:51,759 --> 01:09:55,280
them. We are still working on the

1613
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,600
22 23 audit and again working through

1614
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,080
that. Then we'll move on to 23 24 and 20

1615
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,040
for 25 and we'll bring those to council

1616
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,280
when they're ready. And that concludes

1617
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,159
my short report. Thank you.

1618
01:10:08,159 --> 01:10:10,560
>> Thank you Darcy. Um can I just for

1619
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:12,000
people who don't know what the sod

1620
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,320
lists, do you want to explain that more

1621
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:18,070
clearly?

1622
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:22,080
» I don't actually know what it is.

1623
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,640
>> I know it has a great name. goes on for

1624
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:26,480
three days and I think it relates to

1625
01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:27,600
soding.

1626
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,040
>> Well, no.

1627
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:29,520
>> Okay.

1628
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,199
>> It's it's sudden oak death.

1629
01:10:31,199 --> 01:10:33,360
>> Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

1630
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,040
>> So, it's basically it's it's basically a

1631
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,080
survey to understand, you know, what's

1632
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,400
our exposure is to sudden oak death in

1633
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,520
the community.

1634
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:42,480
>> Great.

1635
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:43,280
>> So,

1636
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:44,800
>> and more specifically, Yeah.

1637
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:46,400
>> And there'll be I mean, when we get

1638
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:47,360
closer, there's going to be more

1639
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:47,920
information.

1640
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:48,560
>> Correct. Yeah.

1641
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,880
>> Yeah. Thank you. But I think we're

1642
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,280
looking for citizen uh citizen

1643
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,760
scientists to be able to sample and

1644
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,640
carry on. So it will need some uh

1645
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,199
outreach.

1646
01:11:01,199 --> 01:11:03,120
Okay. So then let me move on to oral

1647
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:04,960
communication. So this is an opportunity

1648
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,239
for the public to comment um on anything

1649
01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:10,320
that they've heard so far tonight or on

1650
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,320
anything that's not on the agenda. So

1651
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:13,600
this is not for things that are on the

1652
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,760
agenda. Once we get to those agenda

1653
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:17,440
items, you can comment. But this is not

1654
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:18,960
on the agenda or if it's one of the

1655
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:22,239
previous presentation. So if you would

1656
01:11:22,239 --> 01:11:27,510
come up to the mic

1657
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,360
but so let why don't I I picked him

1658
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:30,800
first and then I I didn't see you I

1659
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:32,400
apologize but but I'll get to you. You

1660
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,640
next um and if you could just you know

1661
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:37,120
tell us your name and then

1662
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:38,480
>> Hello everybody. So my name is Joseph

1663
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:40,800
Costa. not currently a resident of

1664
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,040
Portulla Valley, but my family and I

1665
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,080
want to be. And we're looking um at a

1666
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,880
property on Alpine Road, 3510 Alpine

1667
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:51,600
Road, uh which is immediately adjacent

1668
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,800
to the Stanford project that's going on

1669
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,120
in the city now, which is a great

1670
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,360
concern to me purchasing that property.

1671
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,120
So, I don't know if this is the proper

1672
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,719
forum for that. Um, but I just wanted

1673
01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:07,280
to, you know, maybe get feedback on, you

1674
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:08,800
know, the plan that they have and how

1675
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:10,640
they're being controlled that they

1676
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,679
follow it and, uh, with removal of

1677
01:12:13,679 --> 01:12:16,480
trees, etc. Cuz my the property that in

1678
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:18,960
question shares a pretty long property

1679
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,280
line with them and the house is pretty

1680
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,080
close to that property line. And um, so

1681
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,080
before we move forward with that, I

1682
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:27,360
wanted to make sure that the proper

1683
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,719
controls were in place um, that secures

1684
01:12:30,719 --> 01:12:33,760
my investment basically. So that's my

1685
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:35,120
question.

1686
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,199
>> Yeah. And this is generally public

1687
01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:38,719
comment rather than questions. But what

1688
01:12:38,719 --> 01:12:41,760
I would recommend is if you reach out to

1689
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,520
the planning director, I think that they

1690
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:45,120
can give you an overview of the project.

1691
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:45,679
Um.

1692
01:12:45,679 --> 01:12:46,480
>> Okay.

1693
01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:47,199
Good.

1694
01:12:47,199 --> 01:12:49,120
>> And he'll also, you know, be able to

1695
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:49,600
give

1696
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:54,400
>> he he is a she. It's s

1697
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,280
>> Okay. Okay. Okay.

1698
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:58,960
>> Yeah. I mean, I've done my research. I

1699
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:00,560
just want to make sure there's, you

1700
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:02,000
know, what's in place to make sure they

1701
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:06,080
don't do what they're supposed to do and break the rules.

1702
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:08,320
>> Sure. Yeah. Like I'd recommend just

1703
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:09,760
schedule an appointment, Sarah.

1704
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:10,400
>> Okay. Thank you.

1705
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:15,830
>> You're welcome. All right. Next, please.

1706
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,640
» Uh I'm Bob Bower and I'm a member of the

1707
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,440
Porto Valley School District, uh trustee

1708
01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:24,719
and serving as clerk. And I'm here today

1709
01:13:24,719 --> 01:13:26,159
because I want to inform you of a couple

1710
01:13:26,159 --> 01:13:27,679
of things. The first one is that we're

1711
01:13:27,679 --> 01:13:30,000
having a candidate night for the two

1712
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,840
candidates running for county

1713
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,000
superintendent and that's a very

1714
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,920
important uh position for our school

1715
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:37,440
district and our local community and our

1716
01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:40,480
kids. It's on Monday night and I would

1717
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:42,239
first of all welcome you. It's both

1718
01:13:42,239 --> 01:13:44,239
going to be virtual as well as in person

1719
01:13:44,239 --> 01:13:46,320
and there will be a recording thereafter

1720
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:48,480
and if the town would consider including

1721
01:13:48,480 --> 01:13:50,880
some communication about it even after

1722
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,280
the event where the video will be posted

1723
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:55,040
I think it will help our voters in our

1724
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:57,199
community but the most important reason

1725
01:13:57,199 --> 01:13:59,120
I wanted to come today is to address the

1726
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,520
issue with the Hawthorne's property uh

1727
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,800
and in particular um address the fact

1728
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:06,719
that the consideration that's been given

1729
01:14:06,719 --> 01:14:08,320
to date has not involved the school

1730
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,440
district at all our we have depended on

1731
01:14:11,440 --> 01:14:14,320
our former trustee uh Gary Hanning who

1732
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:15,600
has been a member of the trails

1733
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:17,760
committee forever it seems and has done

1734
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,239
a wonderful job. the two options that

1735
01:14:20,239 --> 01:14:22,719
came out did not consider what was

1736
01:14:22,719 --> 01:14:25,360
agreed to when that occurred. And then

1737
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:27,600
in particular, I want to make the town

1738
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,520
aware that the school district, first of

1739
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,920
all, I'm I'm addressing as a person

1740
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,400
because we haven't taken up the matter

1741
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:36,320
until tomorrow night. And so, the timing

1742
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,000
just didn't work. But tomorrow night,

1743
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:39,600
I'll be proposing and discussing this

1744
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,239
matter. And I really want to invite that

1745
01:14:42,239 --> 01:14:44,560
the district work together closely with

1746
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:46,560
the town. Our superintendent has reached

1747
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:49,120
out to the town manager just this week.

1748
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:50,640
So there hasn't been a lot of time to do

1749
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,239
this, but I think it's very important

1750
01:14:52,239 --> 01:14:58,239
that we together um as you know because of the options

1751
01:14:58,239 --> 01:15:00,480
that are now going forward in the two

1752
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:02,960
options are access on Portulla Road

1753
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:05,520
where over a hundred of our kids pass by

1754
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,800
twice a day. Both of those significantly

1755
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:13,440
compromise their safety. Um, MidPen

1756
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:16,159
is going there and an agent I want to

1757
01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:17,760
read what I wrote because of the time,

1758
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,199
but um um we as an agency bear direct

1759
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:22,880
responsibility for the safety of the

1760
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,120
children traveling to and to and from

1761
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,120
school and among that legal

1762
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,679
responsibility is for students in route

1763
01:15:29,679 --> 01:15:32,000
to school to be working with our active

1764
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,080
partners in local agencies and

1765
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:35,760
jurisdictions in evaluating and

1766
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,960
addressing the school crossing safety.

1767
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:44,320
In particular, I want to make the the current council aware that we

1768
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,480
share cost for the crossing guard at

1769
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:50,560
Portola and Alpine Road. And that uh in

1770
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,159
my experience means that we have a

1771
01:15:52,159 --> 01:15:54,320
shared legal responsibility for the

1772
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:58,239
safety of the people who are being uh

1773
01:15:58,239 --> 01:16:02,320
attended to at that crossing. Um that

1774
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:04,159
means that we both have an exposure

1775
01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:05,840
should any harm happen to the children.

1776
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:07,040
And it's something that needs to be

1777
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:10,239
considered under the the current SQA

1778
01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:12,159
activity that's going. There's a

1779
01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:14,400
responsibility that all affected agency

1780
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:17,360
be consulted during the EIR process. And

1781
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,520
we believe the school district should be

1782
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,760
formally recognized as coordinating

1783
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:24,080
agency in the EIR even though there's

1784
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:27,440
been no outreach on their behalf so far.

1785
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:28,000
Um,

1786
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,280
>> and I'm going to have to ask you to

1787
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:30,480
start wrapping it up. We're a little

1788
01:16:30,480 --> 01:16:31,679
over time.

1789
01:16:31,679 --> 01:16:35,120
>> Thank you. I'm sorry. So, um, I'm

1790
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,520
confident that the school district

1791
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:39,199
wishes to work very carefully with you.

1792
01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:40,800
I can only make a personal statement,

1793
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:42,159
but I've spoken to the superintendent

1794
01:16:42,159 --> 01:16:44,880
and other members of the, uh, of the

1795
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,679
community, and I'm proposing that we

1796
01:16:47,679 --> 01:16:49,520
take responsibilities and look at the

1797
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,760
options together and work on whatever

1798
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,080
access solution is ultimately proposed

1799
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,400
that puts the safety of our children in

1800
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,120
our community first. Thank you.

1801
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,550
>> Thank you.

1802
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:04,159
All right. Is there anyone else in the

1803
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:05,679
schoolhouse that have oral

1804
01:17:05,679 --> 01:17:07,920
communications? All right. Seeing none

1805
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,000
in the schoolhouse. Um Christie, go

1806
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,880
ahead.

1807
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:15,840
>> Yes, thank you. I have four questions.

1808
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,560
Um the first one is we received a letter

1809
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,679
from HCD and I understand our town has

1810
01:17:21,679 --> 01:17:23,920
written a letter back that has not been

1811
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:27,440
made public either letter and I believe

1812
01:17:27,440 --> 01:17:29,520
in the past

1813
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:33,360
the public has been better informed. So

1814
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:35,679
I don't know how we're able to get up to

1815
01:17:35,679 --> 01:17:38,880
date with where we stand with HCD and

1816
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,760
I'm interested in learning. Uh the

1817
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:44,159
second thing is uh I'd like to be able

1818
01:17:44,159 --> 01:17:47,199
to attend both meetings, mid pen open

1819
01:17:47,199 --> 01:17:51,120
space district and the council or the

1820
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:53,199
planning commission meetings which both

1821
01:17:53,199 --> 01:17:56,800
start on Wednesdays at 7:00. So, I'm

1822
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:00,239
hoping this council can come to

1823
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:04,800
u a compromise in that their last

1824
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:06,880
meeting was at five o'clock and I was

1825
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,760
able to listen to both. And I think this

1826
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:12,880
is so important to the town that I'm

1827
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,199
asking you to compromise with them and

1828
01:18:15,199 --> 01:18:18,000
get them to understand that we cannot be

1829
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,400
on two meetings at once and listen

1830
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,280
thoroughly. Uh we want to speak at both

1831
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:25,360
meetings. So listening to it later does

1832
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:29,520
not work for us. Um I do think that Mid

1833
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,920
Pen needs to come and do an open session

1834
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,880
in our town council room as they did at

1835
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:38,719
the beginning of this project um a

1836
01:18:38,719 --> 01:18:41,679
couple years ago. Many of the residents

1837
01:18:41,679 --> 01:18:43,920
are unaware that the parking lot across

1838
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,800
from Robert's number nine and number 10

1839
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,280
at Alpine Road and Portullah Road at

1840
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,320
would cause a four-way stop.

1841
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:57,280
uh and uh the safe routes to school. We

1842
01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:58,480
want to understand what's going to

1843
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:01,520
happen with Alpine Trail. It's of

1844
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,560
extreme importance to the safety of

1845
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:08,640
children, uh horses, pedestrians

1846
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:10,800
alike.

1847
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,280
And last but not least, the Stamford

1848
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:15,600
Wedge. If there is going to be traffic

1849
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:17,360
issues there, we want to be fully

1850
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:21,520
informed and understand that process.

1851
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:25,679
um they put out a nice process for their

1852
01:19:25,679 --> 01:19:29,679
uh their students on their campus, but

1853
01:19:29,679 --> 01:19:35,040
we're not seeing uh as much here. Um and

1854
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:37,520
we have places to go. We have doctor's

1855
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:40,159
appointments. We need to know and be on

1856
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:42,560
time as well. Thank you.

1857
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,280
>> Thank you, Christie. And Sarah, we

1858
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:47,440
haven't submitted a letter back to HCD

1859
01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:49,199
yet. Is that correct? Yeah. So, the

1860
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:50,320
reason you haven't seen anything is

1861
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:51,360
because there nothing has been

1862
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,040
submitted.

1863
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:54,960
All right. Is there anybody else? Nobody

1864
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,440
in the schoolhouse. Nobody else online.

1865
01:19:57,440 --> 01:19:58,880
So, I'm going to close oral

1866
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,520
communications

1867
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,960
and move on to the consent agenda. So,

1868
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:06,560
again, I'd like to open the consent

1869
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:08,880
agenda up to public comment. Is there

1870
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:10,560
any public comment on this consent

1871
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,400
agenda?

1872
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:16,870
All right, Rita, go ahead.

1873
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,920
Hi, thank you for taking my comment. Um,

1874
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:22,000
in just looking at the warrant list, uh,

1875
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,719
there's about $250,000

1876
01:20:24,719 --> 01:20:27,760
on this warrant list for contractors.

1877
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:29,840
Uh, call me crazy, but I thought we were

1878
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:32,239
trying to tighten our belts. So, that's

1879
01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:36,880
a4 million. And uh and it would be

1880
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,280
really nice to know how much of that

1881
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:42,880
money are we then getting back in, you

1882
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,760
know, maybe from Stamford or from people

1883
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,480
building homes or something. That number

1884
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:50,960
just sitting out there by itself, you

1885
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:54,800
know, for um lawyers fees, $90,000. for

1886
01:20:54,800 --> 01:21:00,080
cotton shers. Uh the go guy 30,000 for a

1887
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:02,320
SCSG

1888
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,320
uh contractor that was about 79 80,000

1889
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,120
and another 50,000 for a good city.

1890
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:11,120
That's a that's a lot of money for a

1891
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:14,400
town that has no money. Um so how much

1892
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:17,440
of that money are we getting back? And

1893
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:19,840
uh if that can be updated, even if you

1894
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,000
can't answer me now, answer the public

1895
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,640
now. If we could get that information

1896
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:26,719
before next Tuesday's meeting in case

1897
01:21:26,719 --> 01:21:28,960
it's not shared since they're going to

1898
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:30,480
only talk about the budget, it'd be

1899
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:33,360
really nice to understand how much of

1900
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:35,199
that money are we getting back. Thank

1901
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:36,560
you.

1902
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,360
>> Thank you, Rita. All right. Anybody else

1903
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:41,040
in the schoolhouse? I don't see any

1904
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:42,560
other hands online, so I'll bring it

1905
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:44,800
back to the council. Um, does anybody

1906
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,800
want to pull any of the consent agenda items?

1907
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,040
>> I want to pull the warrant list.

1908
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,080
>> Okay. Anything else?

1909
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:56,400
All right. So, we're going to I'm

1910
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:01,990
looking for a motion on 6 A and B.

1911
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,560
» Motion to approve.

1912
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:05,440
>> Second.

1913
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:07,760
>> Okay. All in favor?

1914
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:09,679
>> I.

1915
01:22:09,679 --> 01:22:13,199
>> All right. Then moving on to 6C. Judith,

1916
01:22:13,199 --> 01:22:13,600
go ahead.

1917
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,440
>> Yeah. It's a pretty specific question

1918
01:22:15,440 --> 01:22:18,159
about the sheriff's contract payment,

1919
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:21,600
and it's on page 17.

1920
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:26,390
I understand this 1.1.03

1921
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:30,159
million to be paid. In some places it's

1922
01:22:30,159 --> 01:22:33,520
referencing fiscal year 2526, but then

1923
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:35,520
there's a parenthetical

1924
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:40,800
January 1st to June 30th. So I'm not

1925
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,480
sure if that h what is it covering?

1926
01:22:44,480 --> 01:22:46,639
>> It's covering the second half of fiscal

1927
01:22:46,639 --> 01:22:49,360
year 2526. So January 1st through June

1928
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:50,560
3rd.

1929
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:52,239
So the full year.

1930
01:22:52,239 --> 01:22:53,920
>> So this is the second payment. They bill

1931
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:55,360
us in two installments. This is the

1932
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:56,960
second installment

1933
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:58,880
>> in equal installments.

1934
01:22:58,880 --> 01:22:59,440
>> Yes.

1935
01:22:59,440 --> 01:23:00,960
>> Yeah. That that's all I needed. Thank

1936
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:02,560
you. Okay.

1937
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,360
>> And Tony, is there any comments on

1938
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:07,440
anything that Rita asked? I mean, and no

1939
01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:08,960
is an okay answer for now. I just if you

1940
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:10,080
had any immediate

1941
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:12,960
>> Yes. As been explained in previous

1942
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,000
times, any charge by the consultants to

1943
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:20,159
fund 701 is funded by Apple. Perfect.

1944
01:23:20,159 --> 01:23:21,440
Thank you. Appreciate it.

1945
01:23:21,440 --> 01:23:24,000
>> Hang on. I actually have a question too

1946
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:24,480
on the

1947
01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:25,360
>> Oh, go ahead.

1948
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:26,800
>> Thank you, chair.

1949
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,520
>> Thank you, mayors. Um,

1950
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:31,440
could I just get clarification? As long

1951
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:32,960
as we pulled this item. I was going to

1952
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,440
email you later. Um, for the Sanonteo

1953
01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:39,040
Sheriff, there are there we have uh fund

1954
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:43,440
202 and fund 203 and department 210.

1955
01:23:43,440 --> 01:23:45,920
Just curious what the different funds

1956
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:49,040
and why it's not coming out of one pot.

1957
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:52,239
is we allocated costs with the budget.

1958
01:23:52,239 --> 01:23:54,800
So half part of the costs were covered

1959
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:56,880
by the public safety sales tax which is

1960
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,120
fund 202. We have the cops grant which

1961
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:01,040
is fund 203 and then we had the

1962
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:02,800
remaining funds of ARPA which is fund

1963
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:06,080
225 and that's the $50,000. So ARPA's

1964
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,480
ARPA funds are completely spent. Uh but

1965
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:10,239
the rest is what we get in annual

1966
01:24:10,239 --> 01:24:12,000
aotments from our public safety sales

1967
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,600
tax and our cops grant. So, we split the

1968
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,320
cost. Well, we allocate some of the cost

1969
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:19,679
of the sheriff's contract to these

1970
01:24:19,679 --> 01:24:20,639
funds.

1971
01:24:20,639 --> 01:24:22,800
>> Great. Okay. Thanks so much. Thank you

1972
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:24,800
for following that out. I appreciate

1973
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:26,000
that. Thank you.

1974
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,080
>> I have a follow-up question on 701.

1975
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:31,520
Sorry. Uh 701. I'm just looking at it.

1976
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:35,760
Uh it's it says uh on say the second

1977
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:39,040
line, it's uh 51320

1978
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:43,120
CSG consultants. It says 10171. It

1979
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,920
doesn't uh separate out what

1980
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:47,760
>> there's another there's a report that

1981
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:50,560
says checks by fund report.

1982
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:52,400
So if you go to fund se all the checks

1983
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:54,800
that are cut out of fund 701 those are

1984
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:57,360
the those are covered by c u applicant

1985
01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:03,430
deposits.

1986
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:05,280
You have a check register report. You

1987
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,280
have a paid invoices report. Then you

1988
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:10,560
have a check by fund report.

1989
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:12,320
So Mary, do you mind if we move on and

1990
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:15,760
you could check check with Tony later?

1991
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,000
>> Okay. All right. So I would entertain a

1992
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:22,080
motion um for 6C.

1993
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:23,760
>> So moved.

1994
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:24,480
>> Have a second.

1995
01:25:24,480 --> 01:25:25,040
>> Second.

1996
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:28,000
>> Thank you. All in favor say I.

1997
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:28,639
>> I.

1998
01:25:28,639 --> 01:25:31,360
>> Thank you. 6C's have been approved.

1999
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:33,360
Thank you, Tony.

2000
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:35,440
All right. Moving on to seven, the

2001
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:39,120
public hearing. So I formally open the

2002
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:40,560
public hearing. What do I have to say

2003
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:42,719
spe special words here or just moving

2004
01:25:42,719 --> 01:25:43,440
into

2005
01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:44,960
>> Right. Actually we're going to take the

2006
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,040
item as as normal and then when it's

2007
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:48,400
time for public comment you will open

2008
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:49,280
the public hearing.

2009
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:53,990
>> Got it. Okay. Thank you.

2010
01:25:54,000 --> 01:26:18,390
So Brandon and Sarah, welcome.

2011
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:24,070
Is that after yours?

2012
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:25,760
» Whenever you're ready. We're ready. All

2013
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:28,400
>> right. Good evening. Good evening, town

2014
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:29,679
council. So, I'm Sarah Cors, the

2015
01:26:29,679 --> 01:26:31,040
planning and building director for the

2016
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:32,560
town of Porto Valley, and I'm joined

2017
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:34,960
here tonight with Brandon Ducas, who is

2018
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:37,520
our senior contract planner. So, I'm

2019
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:38,800
just going to kick it off with a very

2020
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,520
quick introduction for tonight. So,

2021
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:43,760
we're introducing kind of three

2022
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:45,760
different zoning code amendments. So,

2023
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:47,120
there's a couple different topics that

2024
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:50,159
are lumped together in one ordinance.

2025
01:26:50,159 --> 01:26:52,320
And so, going back to why this is before

2026
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:55,360
you today. So when I talk about the ADU

2027
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:57,920
and JADU ordinance um so it's all in one

2028
01:26:57,920 --> 01:26:59,520
ordinance but I'll talk about this topic

2029
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,159
first and then one. So with the J AUs

2030
01:27:02,159 --> 01:27:05,920
and J ADUs, there has been our adopted

2031
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:08,000
housing elements and within our housing

2032
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,280
elements, there is a program 7-8 that

2033
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:14,719
provides some clear guidance about um

2034
01:27:14,719 --> 01:27:16,560
updating the town's ADU ordinance to

2035
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:20,719
regularly comply with state law. And it

2036
01:27:20,719 --> 01:27:22,480
also kind of identifies some other

2037
01:27:22,480 --> 01:27:24,800
specific implementation actions and a

2038
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:27,679
time frame for that as well. Um, so when

2039
01:27:27,679 --> 01:27:29,840
we're looking at the ADU and JADU aspect

2040
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:31,760
of the code amendments, you know, we're

2041
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:33,280
looking to make sure that it's in

2042
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:35,520
compliance with best practices and also

2043
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,159
best practices related

2044
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:40,880
compliance with the state law. So then

2045
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,840
moving on um with the emergency shelters

2046
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,000
and de development indemnification

2047
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:47,840
ordinances, those are kind of the two

2048
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:50,560
other pieces of this sort of bundled

2049
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,360
zoning code amendment. Um there is a

2050
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:55,280
housing element program 8-3 that

2051
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,440
provides specific guidance for uh

2052
01:27:57,440 --> 01:27:59,199
related to the emergency shelters and

2053
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:01,840
then we also have guidance to update the

2054
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:03,760
town's municipal code consistent with

2055
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:05,520
state law and best practices again kind

2056
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:06,960
of related to all of them but especially

2057
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:09,520
for the indemnification as well. So we

2058
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:10,880
have that kind of guidance that led us

2059
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:12,639
here tonight to do some updates to our

2060
01:28:12,639 --> 01:28:14,239
zoning code again to make sure we're

2061
01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:15,600
complying with state law and best

2062
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,320
practices. So with this time frame, we

2063
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,480
originally brought this forward to

2064
01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:22,239
planning commission in February for a

2065
01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:24,320
study session. We received some of their

2066
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:26,719
feedback and made a few edits according

2067
01:28:26,719 --> 01:28:28,480
to planning commission's direction and

2068
01:28:28,480 --> 01:28:30,400
we brought it back to them just this

2069
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:32,560
past month in April for their formal

2070
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:35,360
review and recommendation. So planning

2071
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:38,560
commission did have some debate on um

2072
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,960
the indemnification piece of the zoning

2073
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:42,880
code amendment and so they decided to

2074
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:44,880
sort of split it apart into two separate

2075
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:46,400
resolutions. So that's what you saw in

2076
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:47,679
your packet. There's two separate

2077
01:28:47,679 --> 01:28:49,679
resolutions that they voted on. So the

2078
01:28:49,679 --> 01:28:51,280
first one included information for

2079
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:53,920
identification. That was a 4 to1 vote.

2080
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:56,480
And then the other resolution included

2081
01:28:56,480 --> 01:28:59,440
the ADU and JADU language as well as the

2082
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:01,120
emergency shelters language for the

2083
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:02,960
zoning code amendment. And that was a 5

2084
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:05,199
and0 vote from planning commission. And

2085
01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:06,960
so now we're here tonight in May in

2086
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:08,639
front of town council for your formal

2087
01:29:08,639 --> 01:29:10,880
review and consideration for potential

2088
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:12,400
adoption.

2089
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:13,920
So at this point I'm going to hand it

2090
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:15,440
back over to Brandon. He's going to walk

2091
01:29:15,440 --> 01:29:16,960
us through a little bit more detail

2092
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:19,520
about what's before you.

2093
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,080
>> Good evening, council. Uh again, Brandon

2094
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:25,040
Ducas, um contract senior planner with

2095
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:26,880
uh kind of kind of going over the actual

2096
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:29,440
code updates. So, kind of the brief

2097
01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:31,840
overview for the ADU and J8U. We're

2098
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:33,520
looking to rescend our existing

2099
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:36,159
standards which are contained in chapter

2100
01:29:36,159 --> 01:29:38,800
183640B,

2101
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:41,199
which is uses permitted in all zones.

2102
01:29:41,199 --> 01:29:43,520
that's very interesting or it's

2103
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:46,080
accessory uses, sorry. Um, and it's kind

2104
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:47,840
of in a weird location. So, we are

2105
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:50,000
proposing as kind of a best practice to

2106
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,920
create a new chapter since we do

2107
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:53,840
anticipate having to update this

2108
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:56,080
regularly since the state is always

2109
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:58,639
changing the rules on this for us to

2110
01:29:58,639 --> 01:30:00,560
make it easier and have a very

2111
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,520
self-contained chapter with all these

2112
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:05,280
standards.

2113
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:06,880
And so kind of the background to this,

2114
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:09,360
you know, the the state law and intent

2115
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:12,239
is really to remove barriers, streamline

2116
01:30:12,239 --> 01:30:14,719
approvals, and incomplete uh increase

2117
01:30:14,719 --> 01:30:17,520
housing capacity. Our current standards

2118
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:19,120
are non-compliant. They were last

2119
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:21,679
updated, I believe, in 2019. They are no

2120
01:30:21,679 --> 01:30:25,280
longer compliant. Since 2021, we've had

2121
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:27,520
12 new bills that have been passed

2122
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:30,480
changing the regulations for ADU law. We

2123
01:30:30,480 --> 01:30:33,040
did receive an HCD non-compliant letter

2124
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:36,880
back in 2023. They reminded us um last

2125
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,199
year that we had still not replied to

2126
01:30:39,199 --> 01:30:43,440
that and that we need to update that.

2127
01:30:43,440 --> 01:30:46,560
And to kind of guide staff's

2128
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:48,480
development of this, you know, staff

2129
01:30:48,480 --> 01:30:51,440
made use of HCD's handbook, which they

2130
01:30:51,440 --> 01:30:53,920
did just re release a new updated

2131
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,199
version in March. Um, additionally, we

2132
01:30:57,199 --> 01:30:58,639
reviewed their technical assistance

2133
01:30:58,639 --> 01:31:01,520
letter. So, local agencies are required

2134
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:04,080
to submit their ordinances to HCD for

2135
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,440
review. HCD then sends you a letter back

2136
01:31:07,440 --> 01:31:10,239
telling you what you got wrong. And we

2137
01:31:10,239 --> 01:31:12,239
extensively review those, especially

2138
01:31:12,239 --> 01:31:14,480
those that were issued this year to

2139
01:31:14,480 --> 01:31:16,719
understand the guidance that HCD is

2140
01:31:16,719 --> 01:31:19,600
providing and saying yes or no, what can

2141
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,760
you do? Um, and that will kind of go

2142
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:23,360
throughout when we're talking about the

2143
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:26,800
different standards and it led staff to

2144
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:28,639
why we're recommending what we

2145
01:31:28,639 --> 01:31:30,560
recommending is based off of that

2146
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:33,120
guidance and that is you know HCD's

2147
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:34,960
interpretation which is a fair

2148
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:37,120
interpretation of the law and you know

2149
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:38,800
I'll let Katherine kind of expand more

2150
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:42,400
on the legal side of that. Um but that's

2151
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:44,960
kind of guiding this conversation and

2152
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:47,280
why we've made the recommendations that

2153
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:49,679
we have moving forward which were

2154
01:31:49,679 --> 01:31:52,000
supported by the planning commission. So

2155
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:55,920
one of the big things and this is new

2156
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:59,679
this year is how HCD and the state law

2157
01:31:59,679 --> 01:32:02,639
has been amended to really look at how

2158
01:32:02,639 --> 01:32:05,520
the what's called 66314 which are going

2159
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,840
to be units that are created per local

2160
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:12,480
ordinance and units 66323 units which

2161
01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:15,760
are state exempt units. Those are the we

2162
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:18,800
have to approve well and we'll get into

2163
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:20,080
a little more technical on that but

2164
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:22,960
those are the you know the conversion of

2165
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:24,960
existing space that's the 800 square f

2166
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:26,480
feet and those are the multif family

2167
01:32:26,480 --> 01:32:29,440
ones those we always have to approve we

2168
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:31,440
can't apply any additional standards

2169
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:34,880
outside what the state sets

2170
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:38,159
within so the big picture is 66314 that

2171
01:32:38,159 --> 01:32:41,360
is the authorizing language that says a

2172
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:43,679
city may adopt an ordinance that

2173
01:32:43,679 --> 01:32:47,360
regulates ADUs and it does have a lot of

2174
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:49,040
language where it says you can apply all

2175
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:51,920
these standards but further down it

2176
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:54,800
further restricts what we can and cannot

2177
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:58,639
do and it says you uh if you adopt an

2178
01:32:58,639 --> 01:33:00,159
ordinance your ordinance can only do

2179
01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:03,120
these things or only have these maximum

2180
01:33:03,120 --> 01:33:05,199
standards

2181
01:33:05,199 --> 01:33:08,639
and HCD's new interpretation and how the

2182
01:33:08,639 --> 01:33:11,520
state law is worded is that you are

2183
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,679
allowed your stateex exempt ones the 663

2184
01:33:13,679 --> 01:33:17,440
323 units no matter what. And then you

2185
01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:21,199
are still allowed a 66314 unit per our

2186
01:33:21,199 --> 01:33:23,120
ordinance or if we do not adopt an

2187
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:25,600
ordinance per what's authorized under

2188
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:27,840
that section if we do not have an

2189
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:29,679
ordinance. So that results in the

2190
01:33:29,679 --> 01:33:33,440
possibility of having three ADUs plus a

2191
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:37,440
JADU on a site and that has been you

2192
01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:39,360
know HCD's new position that's in their

2193
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:41,360
guidance their technical assistant

2194
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:45,040
documents on this is how that works and

2195
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:46,560
so that really comes to that

2196
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:48,560
conversation of the number of ADUs

2197
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:51,440
permitted. So this next table is just a

2198
01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:55,360
very high level of all the standards,

2199
01:33:55,360 --> 01:33:56,560
right? I know there's a lot of

2200
01:33:56,560 --> 01:33:57,679
information on here.

2201
01:33:57,679 --> 01:33:59,120
>> Hi chart.

2202
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,520
>> Yes. And it kind of divvy ups kind of

2203
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:03,679
the different conversations.

2204
01:34:03,679 --> 01:34:06,320
I highlighted a couple sections where

2205
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:09,040
there is a little bit of a policy

2206
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:12,719
discretion where staff recommended and

2207
01:34:12,719 --> 01:34:15,040
worked with the planning commission to

2208
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:16,400
have the recommendation that you have

2209
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:18,400
before you. for example, the 1,200

2210
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:21,360
square feet, the zero parking based off

2211
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:24,159
of best practices. But that is where you

2212
01:34:24,159 --> 01:34:27,440
do have some limited policy discretion

2213
01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:31,360
on to influence that number, not by very

2214
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:33,440
much. And we'll kind of go through that

2215
01:34:33,440 --> 01:34:35,840
in the next couple slides.

2216
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:41,520
Um so that is uh just briefly is your maximum size and this is only in

2217
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:45,440
regards to attached ADUs and detached

2218
01:34:45,440 --> 01:34:49,920
ADUs. Conversion ADUs do not have a a

2219
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,800
size restriction not besides whatever

2220
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:54,320
the existing building that they're

2221
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:57,040
converting. Uh same with multifamily

2222
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:59,679
ADUs since those are authorized under

2223
01:34:59,679 --> 01:35:01,679
66323

2224
01:35:01,679 --> 01:35:04,800
they are only uh prescribed those

2225
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:07,120
minimum standards of a 4ft side and rear

2226
01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:09,199
the height limitations that's it we

2227
01:35:09,199 --> 01:35:11,679
cannot restrict the size of those

2228
01:35:11,679 --> 01:35:13,840
multifamily ADUs the conversion and

2229
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:16,320
detached so where we have a little bit

2230
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:20,000
of discretion is in the attached ADU or

2231
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:24,320
the detached ADU and

2232
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:27,040
so the State laws requirements are for

2233
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:30,000
attached ADUs, you can restrict it up to

2234
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:34,320
50% of the primary dwelling except that

2235
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:37,520
you have to allow at least 800 square ft

2236
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,080
for a studio or onebedroom or 1,000

2237
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:43,440
square ft for a two or more bedroom. For

2238
01:35:43,440 --> 01:35:46,000
a detached ADU, it is just the straight

2239
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:49,440
850 or 1,000 square ft. And then for

2240
01:35:49,440 --> 01:35:51,440
conversion ADUs, again, there are no

2241
01:35:51,440 --> 01:35:54,960
maximum size, you know.

2242
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:57,280
This was the original language staff did

2243
01:35:57,280 --> 01:35:59,040
have in the study session that we went

2244
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:02,159
to um city coun or I'm sorry planning

2245
01:36:02,159 --> 01:36:04,560
commission with and there was a

2246
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,360
discussion uh of the commission kind of

2247
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:09,840
going back and forth on this number you

2248
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:12,560
know is the thousand okay but we allow

2249
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:16,639
1500 now under our current ordinance and

2250
01:36:16,639 --> 01:36:18,639
they directed staff to kind of evaluate

2251
01:36:18,639 --> 01:36:21,120
that and come forward with a proposal.

2252
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:22,880
staff did come back and that's where we

2253
01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:25,440
just recommended the flat 1200. That

2254
01:36:25,440 --> 01:36:27,920
makes it very simple for everyone. It's

2255
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,320
not as big as we currently allow under

2256
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:34,159
our ordinance, but it is within reason.

2257
01:36:34,159 --> 01:36:37,280
Additionally, the 1,200 under HCD's

2258
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,960
guidelines is kind of the default for if

2259
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,120
you don't have an ordinance. That is in

2260
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:44,719
their handbook is if you don't adopt an

2261
01:36:44,719 --> 01:36:46,960
ordinance, 1,200 square feet, 4 foot

2262
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:49,199
side and rear setbacks. That is the

2263
01:36:49,199 --> 01:36:53,600
standard. if we don't adopt one

2264
01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:55,199
uh for the size requirements kind of

2265
01:36:55,199 --> 01:36:57,840
moving into multif family again um those

2266
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:01,600
sections um since they're and I I didn't

2267
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:04,480
update the correct uh code citation but

2268
01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:08,080
uh since those are permitted for 66323

2269
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:11,360
there is no size maximums there now

2270
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:13,119
going to the setback discussion and

2271
01:37:13,119 --> 01:37:15,600
we've heard this discussion the the

2272
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:17,360
planning commission had a lot of

2273
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:19,920
concerns with this of the 4foot foot

2274
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:22,880
side and rear setback. And there was,

2275
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:24,639
you know, the questions of, well, if we

2276
01:37:24,639 --> 01:37:27,440
allow bigger or we gave them in addition

2277
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:30,000
to what's allowed by state law, can we

2278
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:33,679
enforce additional setbacks? And in the

2279
01:37:33,679 --> 01:37:36,320
state guidance and per government code

2280
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:40,719
section 66314 and E7,

2281
01:37:40,719 --> 01:37:43,920
we cannot. It says in no other basically

2282
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:46,080
in no case can you impose more than a

2283
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:49,199
4ft side and rear setback. We can have

2284
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:53,119
other setbacks um for units built

2285
01:37:53,119 --> 01:37:55,520
towards our ordinance such as hey you

2286
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:56,960
need to be set back on a primary

2287
01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:00,719
structure six feet as long as we don't

2288
01:38:00,719 --> 01:38:02,800
restrict an ADU that's at least 800

2289
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:06,159
square f feet and that's going to be 66

2290
01:38:06,159 --> 01:38:08,080
uh 321

2291
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:09,679
and I know I'm quoting a lot of

2292
01:38:09,679 --> 01:38:11,199
government code sections because they

2293
01:38:11,199 --> 01:38:14,400
all kind of work together and point back

2294
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:17,600
to one another

2295
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:20,000
for The parking staff did recommend no

2296
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:22,639
parking and the reason is with the

2297
01:38:22,639 --> 01:38:24,719
addition of the two highlighted areas

2298
01:38:24,719 --> 01:38:26,560
which are part of more recent

2299
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:30,880
legislation. Um

2300
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:32,960
it it creates a situation where most

2301
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:36,320
often no parking will be required. So

2302
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:38,239
where an accessory dwelling unit is part

2303
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:40,159
of a proposed or existing primary

2304
01:38:40,159 --> 01:38:42,320
residence or existing structure, we

2305
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:44,639
cannot enforce parking. That's a lot of

2306
01:38:44,639 --> 01:38:46,800
the ADUs we are actually seeing.

2307
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:48,800
Additionally, when a permit of an

2308
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:50,320
application for an accessory dwelling

2309
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:52,400
unit is submitted with a permit to

2310
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:54,719
create a new home, we cannot apply

2311
01:38:54,719 --> 01:38:57,440
parking as well. Again, that is a large

2312
01:38:57,440 --> 01:38:59,840
number of the ADUs that we are seeing.

2313
01:38:59,840 --> 01:39:02,159
So, more often than not, parking is not

2314
01:39:02,159 --> 01:39:07,840
required. There would be very limited situations where we could

2315
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:11,440
require parking and th those aren't even

2316
01:39:11,440 --> 01:39:13,679
it's just a parking spot. We can't say

2317
01:39:13,679 --> 01:39:16,880
as a garage. It is just identify a

2318
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:19,040
parking spot and most often here in

2319
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:21,040
Pollola Valley, they do have the

2320
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:24,800
driveways. They already have space for

2321
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:27,360
parking. Um, this again doesn't restrict

2322
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:29,280
an applicant from proposing this.

2323
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:30,639
They're more than welcome to propose

2324
01:39:30,639 --> 01:39:33,840
parking, but we as a jurisdiction

2325
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:37,920
have limitations on what we can require.

2326
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:40,560
And so for our proposed objective design

2327
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:42,480
standards, I I I know one of the

2328
01:39:42,480 --> 01:39:44,080
questions is, well, what if we don't

2329
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:46,639
adopt an ordinance, if we don't adopt an

2330
01:39:46,639 --> 01:39:48,880
ordinance and just default to state law,

2331
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:52,239
we don't get to apply these at all. So

2332
01:39:52,239 --> 01:39:54,639
we could have the,200 square foot ADUs.

2333
01:39:54,639 --> 01:39:56,159
They don't need to meet LRB. They don't

2334
01:39:56,159 --> 01:39:58,880
need to meet lighting, landscaping, none

2335
01:39:58,880 --> 01:40:01,760
of our, you know, AMFA. None of that

2336
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:03,840
still applies.

2337
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:08,159
We can apply those for the 66314 units

2338
01:40:08,159 --> 01:40:10,480
as long as we do not restrict the unit

2339
01:40:10,480 --> 01:40:13,920
to less than 800 square feet. And so

2340
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,000
that is how that and for example the

2341
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:17,840
design standards that we have don't

2342
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:21,119
affect size. So meeting LRV meeting

2343
01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:24,159
exterior lighting meeting landscaping

2344
01:40:24,159 --> 01:40:26,239
won't have that impact. And so that is

2345
01:40:26,239 --> 01:40:28,719
why we are proposing these. And these

2346
01:40:28,719 --> 01:40:31,600
were existing standards in the ADU

2347
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:34,320
ordinance that we did carry over. So

2348
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:37,600
they are not new standards. They are the

2349
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:40,400
standards that we have existing that are

2350
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:42,719
objective and that we can continue to

2351
01:40:42,719 --> 01:40:45,520
apply. And staff does recommend

2352
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:47,520
applicants even currently since we don't

2353
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:49,440
have a compliant ordinance. We do still

2354
01:40:49,440 --> 01:40:51,679
recommend that they comply with our

2355
01:40:51,679 --> 01:40:53,840
design standards. It's just we cannot

2356
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:57,669
require them to.

2357
01:40:57,679 --> 01:41:00,719
So staff did um make some minor

2358
01:41:00,719 --> 01:41:03,920
revisions to what was in your packet um

2359
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:05,600
just based off of some of the feedback

2360
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:07,520
that we heard and just to ensure

2361
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:10,159
clarity. So one of them is on the review

2362
01:41:10,159 --> 01:41:13,760
period is cleaning up the the header to

2363
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:17,360
explain you know an ADU on a lot with an

2364
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:21,440
existing um dwelling and what about a

2365
01:41:21,440 --> 01:41:23,840
ADU accompanying a new dwelling like

2366
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:26,639
it's an undeveloped lot. just to make

2367
01:41:26,639 --> 01:41:29,199
those headers a little more clarified

2368
01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:31,520
and consistent.

2369
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:33,920
Additionally, we updated kind of the um

2370
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:38,000
pathology section clarifying um kind of

2371
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:41,360
a a single ADU that uh meets our

2372
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:43,920
ordinance, not the you know the two ADUs

2373
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:46,159
that you're granted above is permitted

2374
01:41:46,159 --> 01:41:48,000
and then adding in the conversation

2375
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,560
regarding 66312.

2376
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:52,320
That is the language that specifically

2377
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:54,800
says you cannot apply standards that

2378
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:58,560
would limit a a unit to under 800 square

2379
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:01,360
feet even per your own ordinance. So

2380
01:42:01,360 --> 01:42:04,639
that and the next couple slides we had

2381
01:42:04,639 --> 01:42:06,239
that language kind of baked into

2382
01:42:06,239 --> 01:42:08,400
different standards. We instead decided

2383
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:10,480
to just include it at the very beginning

2384
01:42:10,480 --> 01:42:12,719
to make it clear and not have that

2385
01:42:12,719 --> 01:42:14,960
necessarily repetitive language

2386
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,040
throughout.

2387
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:20,159
And then uh staff has also uh identified

2388
01:42:20,159 --> 01:42:22,719
a minor um edit that we needed to do for

2389
01:42:22,719 --> 01:42:27,040
the uh adjusted maximum floor area. So

2390
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:29,840
in our multifamily zones, we do have you

2391
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:33,840
know u floor area ratio and also the

2392
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:36,719
coverage area ratio. So adding those in

2393
01:42:36,719 --> 01:42:39,440
just as citations again the ADUs do

2394
01:42:39,440 --> 01:42:41,840
count towards that. They can't

2395
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:44,159
necessarily exceed unless it would

2396
01:42:44,159 --> 01:42:47,119
prohibit what's the state has authorized

2397
01:42:47,119 --> 01:42:49,360
again that 800 square foot or those

2398
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:53,750
stateex exempt units.

2399
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:55,760
And then the last one was a minor edit

2400
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:59,040
just to ensure the correct citation of

2401
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:01,119
the government code section, the

2402
01:43:01,119 --> 01:43:02,880
specific standard that we are citing

2403
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:07,990
there.

2404
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:10,239
And then kind of moving on to emergency

2405
01:43:10,239 --> 01:43:13,840
shelters. As Cara kind of discussed at

2406
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:15,440
the beginning, it is to implement our

2407
01:43:15,440 --> 01:43:19,199
housing uh element program 83 to comply

2408
01:43:19,199 --> 01:43:22,320
with state law AB2339.

2409
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:24,480
So this is one of those that the state

2410
01:43:24,480 --> 01:43:26,800
has told us we need to make the edit.

2411
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,840
There isn't a default necessarily like

2412
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:31,440
we default to state law. We do need to

2413
01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:33,199
make the edit. It is also consistent

2414
01:43:33,199 --> 01:43:35,440
with our housing elements. So that edit

2415
01:43:35,440 --> 01:43:38,800
is necessary for those reasons. Um and

2416
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:40,960
HCD will be looking at that. So we want

2417
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:43,040
to make sure we get that done. And then

2418
01:43:43,040 --> 01:43:45,520
the indepthification, this is again the

2419
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:49,520
language um kind of codifying the town

2420
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:51,920
standard indepication policy which we

2421
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:53,920
were applying kind of as a condition of

2422
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:56,400
approval. But I think concerns with the

2423
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:58,639
um Stanford project kind of brought this

2424
01:43:58,639 --> 01:44:01,360
up and Katherine kind of created a

2425
01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:04,400
policy that uh addresses best practices

2426
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:09,360
to codify it within our um ordinance.

2427
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:11,119
And so just kind of briefly want to go

2428
01:44:11,119 --> 01:44:17,280
over the options this evening that the council has before. You are able to

2429
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:18,960
introduce the ordinance as it was

2430
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:21,600
proposed. Introduce the ordinance with

2431
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:24,320
specific revisions that are made as part

2432
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:27,760
of the motion. You can not introduce the

2433
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:31,520
ordinance and and basically deny it or

2434
01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:33,920
you can continue the item with specific

2435
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:35,840
staff direction on the amendments that

2436
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:38,480
you'd like us to make to bring that back

2437
01:44:38,480 --> 01:44:41,760
to you at a future meeting.

2438
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:44,480
So, the recommendation is for staff to

2439
01:44:44,480 --> 01:44:47,600
uh or is for the council to introduce

2440
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:51,280
the ordinance and um with the um

2441
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:53,119
revisions that were included as part of

2442
01:44:53,119 --> 01:44:56,960
that updated A and staff is available

2443
01:44:56,960 --> 01:45:00,880
for any questions at this time.

2444
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:03,679
>> Great. Thank you, Brandon.

2445
01:45:03,679 --> 01:45:06,159
So, before we start with questions, um

2446
01:45:06,159 --> 01:45:07,760
the one thing I want to remind council

2447
01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:10,400
is this is not a study session tonight.

2448
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:12,639
So, this is not an opportunity to open

2449
01:45:12,639 --> 01:45:14,880
this thing up, you know, wide open. Um,

2450
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:18,320
I think if we have specific things to

2451
01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:19,600
and Bren, if you can go back to that

2452
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:27,430
last slide.

2453
01:45:27,440 --> 01:45:30,000
So, if if we have, you know, some

2454
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:32,159
specific revisions and we think we can

2455
01:45:32,159 --> 01:45:33,920
make them as part of the motion, you

2456
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:35,280
know, that's where we need to direct

2457
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:37,360
this. So, I' I'd like to ask us as we go

2458
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:39,280
through this tonight that we keep this

2459
01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:41,600
in mind that we're trying to accomplish

2460
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:44,080
one of these four things. We're not

2461
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:46,159
trying to rewrite the entire ordinance.

2462
01:45:46,159 --> 01:45:47,440
Like, that's not what's before us

2463
01:45:47,440 --> 01:45:49,119
tonight. We may want to do that in the

2464
01:45:49,119 --> 01:45:50,880
future, but that's not what's before it

2465
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:53,360
tonight. So, with that, um I'd like to

2466
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:55,440
start with questions. I know Rebecca had

2467
01:45:55,440 --> 01:45:58,159
a long response, you know, where she's

2468
01:45:58,159 --> 01:46:00,800
actually outlined her responses in the

2469
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:04,639
um the PDF basically of the ordinance,

2470
01:46:04,639 --> 01:46:07,440
but Rebecca, do you have other questions

2471
01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:08,719
sort of of the presentation? We're

2472
01:46:08,719 --> 01:46:10,000
obviously going to have a robust

2473
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:11,600
discussion as well, but would you like

2474
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:15,590
to start?

2475
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:17,920
» Thank you. Um I appreciate all the hard

2476
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:20,400
work on this. Um, so I had some

2477
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:22,239
questions about uh parts of it that

2478
01:46:22,239 --> 01:46:24,080
didn't comply with the state law and I

2479
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:25,520
noticed in the latest version that you

2480
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:27,600
sent out at noon or one o'clock today

2481
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:29,520
that you've corrected all of those

2482
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:31,679
points that I uh brought up. So I very

2483
01:46:31,679 --> 01:46:33,920
much appreciate your um making those

2484
01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:38,000
changes to the draft. Um so one of my

2485
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:41,119
fundamental questions is that um and I

2486
01:46:41,119 --> 01:46:45,119
I'd like to get your um agreement that

2487
01:46:45,119 --> 01:46:49,119
my understanding of of the code is

2488
01:46:49,119 --> 01:46:53,040
correct. Um if we look at 66314 which is

2489
01:46:53,040 --> 01:46:55,760
as you said is sort of the foundational

2490
01:46:55,760 --> 01:47:00,080
um section of the code about um about

2491
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:02,960
the fact that the town the the state

2492
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:06,800
gives the town legal authority to um

2493
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:11,199
establish objective requirements for um

2494
01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:13,119
those ADUs

2495
01:47:13,119 --> 01:47:16,960
um as distinguished from the 66323

2496
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:20,480
um ADUs where we have very little say.

2497
01:47:20,480 --> 01:47:23,920
So, you know, if you look at 66314B,

2498
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:26,239
I mean, it it goes into that point. It

2499
01:47:26,239 --> 01:47:28,400
says that the state the town is allowed

2500
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:31,600
to impose objective standards such as

2501
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:34,159
but such as that include but are not

2502
01:47:34,159 --> 01:47:37,679
limited to parking, height, setback,

2503
01:47:37,679 --> 01:47:40,480
landscape, architectural review, and

2504
01:47:40,480 --> 01:47:45,119
maximum size. Um, so my question for you

2505
01:47:45,119 --> 01:47:49,760
is where in our ordinance in this draft

2506
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:55,600
do we I is it stated that the town has

2507
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:58,560
um that ability to set those objective

2508
01:47:58,560 --> 01:48:00,719
standards and I'm most particularly

2509
01:48:00,719 --> 01:48:03,760
concerned about is the setback one um

2510
01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:05,600
given that this says that we can set

2511
01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:10,560
setbacks for all ADUs except 663231s

2512
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:13,119
where in our ordinance

2513
01:48:13,119 --> 01:48:15,199
Are we allowed to do that? Where have

2514
01:48:15,199 --> 01:48:17,199
you specified that? That's part of the

2515
01:48:17,199 --> 01:48:18,560
ordinance.

2516
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:20,880
>> So that that is built into our

2517
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:23,600
standards. However, you look at

2518
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:25,280
>> Brandon, make sure you speak close to

2519
01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:26,800
the mic. It it really have to be right

2520
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:28,080
in front of you. Yeah.

2521
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:30,639
>> All right. So, you know, looking at

2522
01:48:30,639 --> 01:48:34,639
66314 B1, it does specifically say those

2523
01:48:34,639 --> 01:48:40,080
standards. However, later in 66314D

2524
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:42,400
it says we can require accessory

2525
01:48:42,400 --> 01:48:44,159
dwelling units to comply with all the

2526
01:48:44,159 --> 01:48:46,400
following. So that is kind of a list

2527
01:48:46,400 --> 01:48:48,719
that further restricts that above

2528
01:48:48,719 --> 01:48:52,400
statement and HCD specifically points to

2529
01:48:52,400 --> 01:48:54,320
in for example the setback issue the 4

2530
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:56,800
foot side and mirror specifically points

2531
01:48:56,800 --> 01:49:01,040
to subsection 7 um that no setback shall

2532
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:02,800
be required for existing living space or

2533
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:05,199
accessory structures or structures

2534
01:49:05,199 --> 01:49:06,960
constructed in the same location same

2535
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:09,360
dimensions as an existing structure that

2536
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:11,119
is converted to an accessory dwelling

2537
01:49:11,119 --> 01:49:13,280
unit or to any portion of an accessory

2538
01:49:13,280 --> 01:49:16,239
dwelling unit. and a setback of no more

2539
01:49:16,239 --> 01:49:18,639
than 4 foot side and mirror shall be

2540
01:49:18,639 --> 01:49:20,639
required for an accessory dwelling unit

2541
01:49:20,639 --> 01:49:23,040
that is not converted from an existing

2542
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:25,360
structure or new structure constructed

2543
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:27,440
in the same location and the same

2544
01:49:27,440 --> 01:49:30,880
dimensions as the existing structure. So

2545
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:33,360
in the HCD guidelines, that is what

2546
01:49:33,360 --> 01:49:35,520
they're pointing to to say yes, we say

2547
01:49:35,520 --> 01:49:39,040
you can do setbacks except 4 foot side

2548
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:41,440
and rear only. Where we are applying

2549
01:49:41,440 --> 01:49:43,040
setbacks, for example, is the front

2550
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:45,600
setback. We do require that they meet

2551
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:47,679
that as long as we're not limiting an

2552
01:49:47,679 --> 01:49:50,239
800 foot unit. That's consistent with

2553
01:49:50,239 --> 01:49:53,760
66312 where that 800 foot thing comes

2554
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:56,159
into play. We can require, for example,

2555
01:49:56,159 --> 01:49:59,040
if we wanted to add a setback between

2556
01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:00,719
structures,

2557
01:50:00,719 --> 01:50:02,400
you know, between like the main house,

2558
01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:04,080
it would have to be on the same lot,

2559
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:05,760
between structures on the main lot. We

2560
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:08,159
could say, hey, you need to be 6 foot

2561
01:50:08,159 --> 01:50:11,840
from that except that if it if it

2562
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:14,480
prohibits a unit of at least 800 square

2563
01:50:14,480 --> 01:50:17,679
feet. So that is kind of the the

2564
01:50:17,679 --> 01:50:20,560
justification HCD has provided on why we

2565
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:24,320
cannot impose higher sided rear setbacks

2566
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:26,159
but there are other setbacks that we

2567
01:50:26,159 --> 01:50:31,199
could apply in those specific cases. Um,

2568
01:50:31,199 --> 01:50:34,239
can I know we disagree completely on

2569
01:50:34,239 --> 01:50:36,560
that interpretation and I understand

2570
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:41,920
that HCD um you're taking um your

2571
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:44,080
direction from HCD's interpretation of

2572
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:48,719
this, but can we both agree on the fact

2573
01:50:48,719 --> 01:50:53,199
that D7 is one of the worst written um

2574
01:50:53,199 --> 01:50:57,199
portions of this law period? to think

2575
01:50:57,199 --> 01:50:59,040
they intended it to be two separate

2576
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:00,880
bullet points and somebody made an

2577
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:02,880
absolute oopsie and deleted something

2578
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:05,440
because it was not. Yes, I completely

2579
01:51:05,440 --> 01:51:07,520
agree with you. It is not wellward and

2580
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:10,159
we see that throughout this ordinance

2581
01:51:10,159 --> 01:51:13,280
that is a part of the legislaturator's

2582
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:17,119
action was to actually give HCD the

2583
01:51:17,119 --> 01:51:19,920
power to interpret implement and

2584
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:23,040
supplement the standards in this chapter

2585
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:25,280
which is very unusual. You know

2586
01:51:25,280 --> 01:51:27,440
supplement standards that are in state

2587
01:51:27,440 --> 01:51:30,400
law you almost never see. So that is a

2588
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:33,199
very unique position and that is why

2589
01:51:33,199 --> 01:51:35,040
staff is defaulting to the language that

2590
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:37,199
HCD is the guidance that they are

2591
01:51:37,199 --> 01:51:39,520
providing because the legislature

2592
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,400
specifically in the ADU law has given

2593
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:50,070
them that authorization.

2594
01:51:50,080 --> 01:51:54,560
Um, so one of my other questions is, um,

2595
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:57,920
just some background. To be honest, um,

2596
01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:00,719
this project did start with the letter

2597
01:52:00,719 --> 01:52:03,760
essentially from HCD about our current,

2598
01:52:03,760 --> 01:52:06,400
um, our current ADU ordinance back in

2599
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:08,560
2023 and said that we needed to update

2600
01:52:08,560 --> 01:52:11,599
it to the current laws. Um, we obviously

2601
01:52:11,599 --> 01:52:13,119
had a lot of turmoil in the department

2602
01:52:13,119 --> 01:52:16,320
and tons of changeover. So, um, I

2603
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:18,880
actually went and and took that on as a

2604
01:52:18,880 --> 01:52:20,719
project because there was no progress,

2605
01:52:20,719 --> 01:52:22,159
you know, we had no staff to do any

2606
01:52:22,159 --> 01:52:25,920
progress on this. I wrote an and I wrote

2607
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:27,920
an ADU ordinance for the town and

2608
01:52:27,920 --> 01:52:30,719
submitted it back in August and I

2609
01:52:30,719 --> 01:52:34,400
followed um the template that HCD

2610
01:52:34,400 --> 01:52:36,960
provided actually. So they have created

2611
01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:40,560
a template for an ADU ordinance and I

2612
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:42,560
followed this ordinance followed this

2613
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:44,719
and it's a it it obviously was out of

2614
01:52:44,719 --> 01:52:47,679
date because this was really from 2023

2615
01:52:47,679 --> 01:52:50,639
2024 time period but um a lot of it

2616
01:52:50,639 --> 01:52:53,119
hasn't changed um even though there's

2617
01:52:53,119 --> 01:52:55,920
been a ton of new ordinances in reality

2618
01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:57,440
that's just little pieces that have

2619
01:52:57,440 --> 01:53:00,960
changed. So one of the um I did want to

2620
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:03,440
say that one of the I I I have a I'm

2621
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:05,599
coming to a question. One of the

2622
01:53:05,599 --> 01:53:07,599
portions on here that is best practices

2623
01:53:07,599 --> 01:53:10,960
is the inclusion of actual code

2624
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:13,920
references for each section. So my

2625
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:16,080
question is why do you not want to

2626
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:19,280
follow HCD templated you know best

2627
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:22,400
practices of including the actual code

2628
01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:24,400
reference?

2629
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:27,599
>> So that template is interesting because

2630
01:53:27,599 --> 01:53:28,880
we did receive it from the

2631
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:32,480
representative of HD but HCD oh I'll get

2632
01:53:32,480 --> 01:53:34,719
a little closer. Sorry. Um, we did

2633
01:53:34,719 --> 01:53:36,159
receive that from the representative for

2634
01:53:36,159 --> 01:53:38,480
HCD. However, speaking to some other

2635
01:53:38,480 --> 01:53:41,599
ones, it's in process. There is no live

2636
01:53:41,599 --> 01:53:44,719
document that's available. So, I I

2637
01:53:44,719 --> 01:53:46,719
cannot speak to whether that is actually

2638
01:53:46,719 --> 01:53:49,040
HCDs or that was that individual

2639
01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:51,040
reviewers

2640
01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:53,840
guidelines. Um, it is a few years out of

2641
01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:56,080
date. There has been more clar even

2642
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:59,520
though the state law necessarily hasn't

2643
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:02,239
the exact sections haven't been updated.

2644
01:54:02,239 --> 01:54:05,520
HCD has been issuing newer guidance

2645
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:08,159
based off of other bills. I I think

2646
01:54:08,159 --> 01:54:10,719
we've included references where we felt

2647
01:54:10,719 --> 01:54:13,119
it's the most relevant adding in the

2648
01:54:13,119 --> 01:54:16,880
citation of like 663 uh you know the the

2649
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:20,560
state exempt units 66323 units adding in

2650
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:24,080
the citation for uh 66312

2651
01:54:24,080 --> 01:54:26,000
uh where we felt it is the most

2652
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:28,080
appropriate. We do site at the very

2653
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:30,960
beginning the entirety of it. So, you

2654
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:32,560
know, this is what we're trying to do.

2655
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:35,199
We're implementing this. Um,

2656
01:54:35,199 --> 01:54:37,599
additionally, I mean, we we're we can

2657
01:54:37,599 --> 01:54:39,920
work with adding more, but the only

2658
01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:42,320
problem is, and this happened a few

2659
01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:44,080
years ago, a lot of jurisdictions did

2660
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:46,239
that and then the state completely

2661
01:54:46,239 --> 01:54:48,480
reumbered the entire section. That means

2662
01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:50,000
we would have to go back through and

2663
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:54,080
reumber everything. And a lot of best

2664
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:56,080
practices have been not to include it.

2665
01:54:56,080 --> 01:54:57,760
you have the reference at the big

2666
01:54:57,760 --> 01:54:59,599
beginning so that you don't have to go

2667
01:54:59,599 --> 01:55:02,320
back and fix every single one all the

2668
01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:04,560
way through again if they happen to

2669
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,599
rechapter this or reumber anything. So

2670
01:55:07,599 --> 01:55:09,360
that was kind of a big change that

2671
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:12,639
happened right around 2023 2024 time

2672
01:55:12,639 --> 01:55:15,360
frame when they did that reumbering. Um

2673
01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:17,840
I think that that document there I think

2674
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:20,239
includes it right after the re

2675
01:55:20,239 --> 01:55:22,239
>> so but it was about that same time

2676
01:55:22,239 --> 01:55:22,880
frame.

2677
01:55:22,880 --> 01:55:26,480
>> Okay, thank you. Um so

2678
01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:28,239
one of the things that concerns me about

2679
01:55:28,239 --> 01:55:30,159
this ordinance is that it really doesn't

2680
01:55:30,159 --> 01:55:33,040
protect our design guidelines

2681
01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:35,040
um because they are discretionary

2682
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:36,639
because they are not written in a manner

2683
01:55:36,639 --> 01:55:41,440
that's objective. Um so because we have

2684
01:55:41,440 --> 01:55:43,840
not been able to work on transferring

2685
01:55:43,840 --> 01:55:46,639
those into objective requirements.

2686
01:55:46,639 --> 01:55:48,400
Um

2687
01:55:48,400 --> 01:55:51,119
there's nothing codified into this new

2688
01:55:51,119 --> 01:55:53,440
um ordinance that would that would

2689
01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:56,239
include the eventual production of these

2690
01:55:56,239 --> 01:55:58,159
objective requirements for design

2691
01:55:58,159 --> 01:56:00,239
guidelines. Um, I had suggested some

2692
01:56:00,239 --> 01:56:04,719
language um in I don't know where it is

2693
01:56:04,719 --> 01:56:07,440
um that allowed for that potential

2694
01:56:07,440 --> 01:56:10,880
future um

2695
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:12,800
future aspect so that we wouldn't then

2696
01:56:12,800 --> 01:56:15,520
have to go and have a new ordinance um

2697
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:17,280
because it would already be set in

2698
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:22,719
there. It was um Oh, it was under

2699
01:56:22,719 --> 01:56:27,910
objective design standards number

2700
01:56:27,920 --> 01:56:32,070
six. Sorry,

2701
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:36,550
ADC. Um 182560

2702
01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:39,440
number nine. Yeah, number nine,

2703
01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:41,119
objective design standards. So, I had

2704
01:56:41,119 --> 01:56:42,560
recommended that we put something like

2705
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:44,159
the town may in the future review,

2706
01:56:44,159 --> 01:56:46,320
adopt, amend, or repeal objective design

2707
01:56:46,320 --> 01:56:48,480
requirements to implement additional

2708
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:50,239
uniform standards or criteria that

2709
01:56:50,239 --> 01:56:51,520
supplement or clarify the terms,

2710
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:52,960
references, and standards set forth in

2711
01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:54,960
this chapter. I mean, I don't even

2712
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:56,560
remember where I got this from. I I must

2713
01:56:56,560 --> 01:56:58,320
have gotten it right out of either our

2714
01:56:58,320 --> 01:57:01,280
current ADU ordinance or something from

2715
01:57:01,280 --> 01:57:03,679
HCG. So, is there a reason not to

2716
01:57:03,679 --> 01:57:05,520
include that sort of caveat that would

2717
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:08,159
allow us to then just slot in our new

2718
01:57:08,159 --> 01:57:10,320
objective requirements once we have

2719
01:57:10,320 --> 01:57:10,880
them?

2720
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:14,639
>> I I expect that the HCD would be like,

2721
01:57:14,639 --> 01:57:16,080
well, what are these standards? Because

2722
01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:18,239
they're reviewing the ordinance. They

2723
01:57:18,239 --> 01:57:20,159
want to know, are we actually applying

2724
01:57:20,159 --> 01:57:22,320
objective standards? So, if we did

2725
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:23,679
something like that, you would have to

2726
01:57:23,679 --> 01:57:25,920
send your objective standards to speed

2727
01:57:25,920 --> 01:57:27,440
because now you've made them a part of

2728
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:30,719
your ADU ordinance. So, and one thing

2729
01:57:30,719 --> 01:57:32,480
with that, when we do do objective

2730
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:34,159
design standards and we do want to apply

2731
01:57:34,159 --> 01:57:35,840
them, we don't have to completely redo

2732
01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:38,560
the ADU ordinance, instead we can amend

2733
01:57:38,560 --> 01:57:41,760
just that section to incorporate those

2734
01:57:41,760 --> 01:57:44,159
objective design standards, but every

2735
01:57:44,159 --> 01:57:46,880
time we do amend it, we are technically

2736
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:49,520
supposed to send it back to HCD. So,

2737
01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:51,440
that's why by reference, if you do it by

2738
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:52,960
reference, you're going to have to send

2739
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:54,800
the entirety of your objective design

2740
01:57:54,800 --> 01:57:57,760
standards to HCD for their review and

2741
01:57:57,760 --> 01:58:00,400
approval. Um, so that's why best

2742
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:02,320
practice and that's why a lot of

2743
01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:04,320
jurisdictions have it as a standalone

2744
01:58:04,320 --> 01:58:06,159
chapter now and that was the thinking

2745
01:58:06,159 --> 01:58:07,360
behind that.

2746
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:08,880
>> Have what is a standalone chapter?

2747
01:58:08,880 --> 01:58:09,360
Sorry.

2748
01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:10,320
>> KDU ordinance.

2749
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:11,199
>> Oh, okay.

2750
01:58:11,199 --> 01:58:12,400
>> Because technically if you have it

2751
01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:13,920
within your ordinance and you tweak

2752
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:16,159
anything a little bit, you might have to

2753
01:58:16,159 --> 01:58:18,000
send it back to HCD. So that's why the

2754
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:19,840
best practice is have it be its own

2755
01:58:19,840 --> 01:58:21,119
standalone chapter and kind of

2756
01:58:21,119 --> 01:58:23,520
self-contained so that you don't have

2757
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:25,520
this. Well, you referenced this, so we

2758
01:58:25,520 --> 01:58:28,000
need to see that now, too.

2759
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:29,840
Um so my other concern is just

2760
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:31,840
protection in furthering this sort of

2761
01:58:31,840 --> 01:58:33,599
idea of protecting our our natural

2762
01:58:33,599 --> 01:58:37,440
surroundings and our um

2763
01:58:37,440 --> 01:58:39,520
you know our traditional heritage of how

2764
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,080
we developed and one of the things that

2765
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:44,400
was taken out of our um existing

2766
01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:46,400
ordinance is just the purpose and

2767
01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:49,599
intent. So I put it I had suggested we

2768
01:58:49,599 --> 01:58:52,639
put it back in and that included um

2769
01:58:52,639 --> 01:58:54,560
comments like just just having a little

2770
01:58:54,560 --> 01:58:57,760
list of create new housing units while

2771
01:58:57,760 --> 01:58:59,679
respecting the existing character of the

2772
01:58:59,679 --> 01:59:02,159
town encourage adherence to the town's

2773
01:59:02,159 --> 01:59:03,920
base zoning setbacks objective

2774
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:06,000
requirements and design guidelines while

2775
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:08,480
recognizing all legal rights granted by

2776
01:59:08,480 --> 01:59:11,840
the code you know ADU code um support

2777
01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:13,520
the development of ministerial approved

2778
01:59:13,520 --> 01:59:15,520
ADUs and JADUs provide housing that

2779
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:17,520
respond residents changing needs needs,

2780
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:19,440
household sizes, and increasing housing

2781
01:59:19,440 --> 01:59:21,840
costs and provide accessible housing for

2782
01:59:21,840 --> 01:59:23,520
seniors and people with disabilities and

2783
01:59:23,520 --> 01:59:25,440
then promote provision of affordable

2784
01:59:25,440 --> 01:59:27,520
housing for people who work in town. So,

2785
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:30,000
is there a reason not to include that

2786
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:32,000
kind of message to sort of preface the

2787
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:36,400
whole ordinance so people really

2788
01:59:36,400 --> 01:59:40,960
understand that we value, you know, that

2789
01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:42,960
how our town has developed and we want

2790
01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:46,239
to um encourage people to adhere to it

2791
01:59:46,239 --> 01:59:48,320
while recognizing that they they have an

2792
01:59:48,320 --> 01:59:50,719
enormous amount of

2793
01:59:50,719 --> 01:59:53,840
>> I I think it's just trying to streamline

2794
01:59:53,840 --> 01:59:56,400
as much as possible so that HCD doesn't

2795
01:59:56,400 --> 01:59:58,159
necessarily come back with comments.

2796
01:59:58,159 --> 02:00:01,280
Some of those while are, you know, yes,

2797
02:00:01,280 --> 02:00:03,440
those are our purposes, they can be a

2798
02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:05,920
little more well, respect the town's,

2799
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:07,920
you know, character. That's subjective

2800
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:09,119
and they're going to look at that even

2801
02:00:09,119 --> 02:00:11,040
though it's in the policy or in the

2802
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:12,960
purpose. They may look at that and be

2803
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:15,440
like, how how are you enforcing that?

2804
02:00:15,440 --> 02:00:17,360
doesn't make sense. I think where

2805
02:00:17,360 --> 02:00:19,760
we have the leeway to do that is

2806
02:00:19,760 --> 02:00:21,360
actually with how the public interacts

2807
02:00:21,360 --> 02:00:23,599
with our documents. Most of the public

2808
02:00:23,599 --> 02:00:25,360
does not come into and read our

2809
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:27,840
municipal code. they get our handouts

2810
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:30,560
and I think that is where we emphasize

2811
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:32,880
that hey yes here's what you're allowed

2812
02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:36,159
but we encourage you we recommend that

2813
02:00:36,159 --> 02:00:39,520
you do this that is where we I think

2814
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:41,679
have the ability to include stuff like

2815
02:00:41,679 --> 02:00:44,159
that hey we want you to respect you know

2816
02:00:44,159 --> 02:00:47,599
the the town's character and here's some

2817
02:00:47,599 --> 02:00:49,760
guidance on how you might be able to do

2818
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:51,840
that and we provide that as part of our

2819
02:00:51,840 --> 02:00:54,320
handouts but not in our code our code

2820
02:00:54,320 --> 02:00:56,960
needs to be very kind of the objective

2821
02:00:56,960 --> 02:00:58,320
streamlined. This is what you're

2822
02:00:58,320 --> 02:01:00,719
allowed. And then our handouts can be

2823
02:01:00,719 --> 02:01:03,440
more of that

2824
02:01:03,440 --> 02:01:08,719
providing more of the guidance and the support and encouragement to still

2825
02:01:08,719 --> 02:01:11,040
meet our our design standards as a town

2826
02:01:11,040 --> 02:01:12,639
because that is important. You know,

2827
02:01:12,639 --> 02:01:13,840
that is one of the unique things about

2828
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:16,320
Pulla Valley. And I think that is where

2829
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:19,119
we have that ability. I I worry that

2830
02:01:19,119 --> 02:01:21,679
adding it into our ordinance will get

2831
02:01:21,679 --> 02:01:24,719
HCD looking at it closer.

2832
02:01:24,719 --> 02:01:26,560
Um so that you know and I don't know if

2833
02:01:26,560 --> 02:01:28,400
Katherine has any further comments or

2834
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:30,880
Sarah kind of like you know on that

2835
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:32,480
point.

2836
02:01:32,480 --> 02:01:35,280
>> Uh thank you summarized it nicely that

2837
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:36,800
the council has discretion to add a

2838
02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:39,920
purpose. Um but I think Brandon provided

2839
02:01:39,920 --> 02:01:42,080
an alternative for consideration that um

2840
02:01:42,080 --> 02:01:44,800
some of that that could also go in a in

2841
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:46,960
a handout. Um so it's really just a risk

2842
02:01:46,960 --> 02:01:49,040
analysis about sort of how whether this

2843
02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:53,040
would flag HD's scrutiny.

2844
02:01:53,040 --> 02:02:03,030
Um

2845
02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:06,400
so um if we go back to 66314

2846
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:09,679
and um a it actually allows

2847
02:02:09,679 --> 02:02:11,920
municipalities to designate areas within

2848
02:02:11,920 --> 02:02:13,280
the jurisdiction where accessory

2849
02:02:13,280 --> 02:02:15,199
dwelling out dwelling units are

2850
02:02:15,199 --> 02:02:17,440
permitted. The converse is that is that

2851
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:21,280
we I I the converse is I assume that we

2852
02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:23,679
can also designate areas where they're

2853
02:02:23,679 --> 02:02:27,520
not permitted. Is that the case? Is that

2854
02:02:27,520 --> 02:02:29,040
I mean without going is that's kind of a

2855
02:02:29,040 --> 02:02:31,599
yes or no I guess because I have I want

2856
02:02:31,599 --> 02:02:34,239
to add a little bit more to that.

2857
02:02:34,239 --> 02:02:36,080
>> Yes. But there's limitations on what we

2858
02:02:36,080 --> 02:02:36,960
can do.

2859
02:02:36,960 --> 02:02:39,920
>> Okay. And recognizing that we have to

2860
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:41,840
allow 66323

2861
02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:45,840
uh ADUs regardless. Um, is there a a

2862
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:50,719
reason not to ban uh 66314 ADUs, for

2863
02:02:50,719 --> 02:02:55,199
example, in Craig's neighborhood, the um

2864
02:02:55,199 --> 02:02:58,719
Woodside Highlands? Um,

2865
02:02:58,719 --> 02:03:00,000
I mean, it obviously will have little

2866
02:03:00,000 --> 02:03:02,400
impact in terms of uh people not

2867
02:03:02,400 --> 02:03:03,920
building ADUs because they can still

2868
02:03:03,920 --> 02:03:05,840
build three, you know, essentially three

2869
02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:08,800
ADUs with the 66323s, but at least they

2870
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:10,800
wouldn't be able to build four because

2871
02:03:10,800 --> 02:03:12,960
it would block that. Um, is there a

2872
02:03:12,960 --> 02:03:14,960
reason not to include that? Not to kind

2873
02:03:14,960 --> 02:03:20,320
of have an uh some areas that are where evacuation where traffic is

2874
02:03:20,320 --> 02:03:23,280
already at a at a a safe a tremendous

2875
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:27,599
safety issue to just sort of give that

2876
02:03:27,599 --> 02:03:29,119
impression to the community that, you

2877
02:03:29,119 --> 02:03:30,239
know, if you're buying a house in that

2878
02:03:30,239 --> 02:03:35,920
neighborhood where that, you know, it's got some issues with traffic and

2879
02:03:35,920 --> 02:03:38,159
safety. Is there a reason not to to

2880
02:03:38,159 --> 02:03:40,800
block off some areas?

2881
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:44,560
And this is where HCD's guidance kind of

2882
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:46,719
comes into play. So, you know, further

2883
02:03:46,719 --> 02:03:49,599
down going into D of that same section,

2884
02:03:49,599 --> 02:03:52,320
it says we have to allow it on property

2885
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:54,639
zone single family. So, this is really

2886
02:03:54,639 --> 02:03:56,719
kind of more of the caveat on well, do

2887
02:03:56,719 --> 02:03:59,119
you want to expand it into other zoning

2888
02:03:59,119 --> 02:04:01,599
districts is what that is really at

2889
02:04:01,599 --> 02:04:03,679
least the guidance documents seem to be

2890
02:04:03,679 --> 02:04:07,280
pending. We still do have and this even

2891
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:10,719
applies to 66323 units where we can make

2892
02:04:10,719 --> 02:04:12,719
case by case specific findings the

2893
02:04:12,719 --> 02:04:15,760
building official if there is a risk to

2894
02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:18,639
fire life safety. And so that was

2895
02:04:18,639 --> 02:04:20,080
actually one of the changes from the

2896
02:04:20,080 --> 02:04:21,520
planning commission version to your

2897
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:25,040
version that you saw that um the um

2898
02:04:25,040 --> 02:04:27,440
commission brought up specifically um

2899
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:30,719
council member Karen. uh she brought it

2900
02:04:30,719 --> 02:04:33,679
up focused on that and so staff did add

2901
02:04:33,679 --> 02:04:35,599
that as that caveat there because that

2902
02:04:35,599 --> 02:04:38,000
is where we feel that is kind of the max

2903
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:42,480
we can do without raising the eye of HCB

2904
02:04:42,480 --> 02:04:44,400
since that is I mean that is a very much

2905
02:04:44,400 --> 02:04:47,599
a consideration fire safety fire safety

2906
02:04:47,599 --> 02:04:50,719
evacuation flood unstable soils is

2907
02:04:50,719 --> 02:04:52,400
another example I think that's where she

2908
02:04:52,400 --> 02:04:54,159
was focused on is well we have an

2909
02:04:54,159 --> 02:04:55,679
ordinance that says you can't build

2910
02:04:55,679 --> 02:04:57,840
these structures in these type of soils

2911
02:04:57,840 --> 02:04:59,840
ACD's guidelines says you can only do

2912
02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:02,719
that by a case by case basis. You cannot

2913
02:05:02,719 --> 02:05:06,880
do a blanket ban in a section if it's

2914
02:05:06,880 --> 02:05:09,119
zone single family and authorizes

2915
02:05:09,119 --> 02:05:12,159
residential uses. So that is where that

2916
02:05:12,159 --> 02:05:14,639
language came from and try to address

2917
02:05:14,639 --> 02:05:16,080
exactly your concern.

2918
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:17,840
>> So my actually next question was

2919
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:20,159
completely relevant to that next portion

2920
02:05:20,159 --> 02:05:22,080
and I did notice it and it is somewhat

2921
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:25,360
vague. Um,

2922
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:30,159
I know that HCD has come back and said,

2923
02:05:30,159 --> 02:05:33,599
um, we can't use a fire safety as a

2924
02:05:33,599 --> 02:05:37,199
reason to to ban ADUs, which is a little

2925
02:05:37,199 --> 02:05:41,119
amazing to me. But um

2926
02:05:41,119 --> 02:05:43,920
my question is it you know one of the

2927
02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:46,400
edits I also recommended was to expand a

2928
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:47,599
little bit more on this public health

2929
02:05:47,599 --> 02:05:51,679
and was to actually specify directly um

2930
02:05:51,679 --> 02:05:55,040
that you cannot build an ADU within a

2931
02:05:55,040 --> 02:05:56,880
earthquake setback. You cannot build an

2932
02:05:56,880 --> 02:05:59,280
ADU within on unstable soils. You cannot

2933
02:05:59,280 --> 02:06:02,480
build an ADU you know whatever whatever

2934
02:06:02,480 --> 02:06:04,320
these I have a bunch of lists there

2935
02:06:04,320 --> 02:06:05,760
because you're not allowed to build a

2936
02:06:05,760 --> 02:06:07,840
house either in those areas. So, this

2937
02:06:07,840 --> 02:06:10,880
was just a restatement of the reality is

2938
02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:13,280
because um I I'm just wondering why

2939
02:06:13,280 --> 02:06:16,480
would we not kind of put that emphasis

2940
02:06:16,480 --> 02:06:18,800
into the into the system and why instead

2941
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:22,239
have this sort of vague notice

2942
02:06:22,239 --> 02:06:24,320
>> and so

2943
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:27,199
this actually came up really relatively

2944
02:06:27,199 --> 02:06:29,040
relevant. So, in reviewing some of the

2945
02:06:29,040 --> 02:06:30,800
comment letters uh to San Diego

2946
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:33,599
specifically, San Diego said, "Hey, our

2947
02:06:33,599 --> 02:06:35,440
fire department says you have to have

2948
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:38,000
five foot setbacks in these situations,

2949
02:06:38,000 --> 02:06:40,239
they put it in the ordinance." State

2950
02:06:40,239 --> 02:06:41,679
came back and said, "That's all good.

2951
02:06:41,679 --> 02:06:43,119
That's building code. You cannot make

2952
02:06:43,119 --> 02:06:45,360
that a zoning requirement."

2953
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:47,920
So, nothing in our zoning requirements

2954
02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:50,800
mitigate or negate the building code

2955
02:06:50,800 --> 02:06:52,800
requirements. So the building code which

2956
02:06:52,800 --> 02:06:55,040
is where you know earthquake setbacks

2957
02:06:55,040 --> 02:06:58,000
kind of all that comes into play that's

2958
02:06:58,000 --> 02:07:00,239
where that gets applied but we can't

2959
02:07:00,239 --> 02:07:02,639
apply it as a zoning standard and that

2960
02:07:02,639 --> 02:07:05,119
was what HCD said. So that's why we're

2961
02:07:05,119 --> 02:07:07,360
keeping that broad that is just that

2962
02:07:07,360 --> 02:07:09,119
that's very similar to the authorizing

2963
02:07:09,119 --> 02:07:12,320
language in the um government code

2964
02:07:12,320 --> 02:07:14,000
regarding hey you can make this finding

2965
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:16,159
for public life safety. So that's why

2966
02:07:16,159 --> 02:07:18,239
it's purposely broad is we're just

2967
02:07:18,239 --> 02:07:19,920
trying to get to that because if we get

2968
02:07:19,920 --> 02:07:22,800
specific, HCV will flag it and say you

2969
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:24,880
can't have that as a zoning standard.

2970
02:07:24,880 --> 02:07:27,119
That's a building code standard.

2971
02:07:27,119 --> 02:07:28,800
So could you explain a little bit the

2972
02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:33,599
process of people um submitting a um

2973
02:07:33,599 --> 02:07:38,719
planning application for an ADU that

2974
02:07:38,719 --> 02:07:41,280
happened to be a little too close to a

2975
02:07:41,280 --> 02:07:42,960
earthquake fault or was happened to be

2976
02:07:42,960 --> 02:07:45,840
on some of the soil where it's banned. I

2977
02:07:45,840 --> 02:07:47,920
mean one wouldn't want somebody an

2978
02:07:47,920 --> 02:07:50,079
applicant to get that far along. So can

2979
02:07:50,079 --> 02:07:51,360
you kind of explain a little bit the

2980
02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:55,840
thinking of how we preempt that? Um,

2981
02:07:55,840 --> 02:07:58,079
>> a lot of this, a lot of the ADUs do come

2982
02:07:58,079 --> 02:08:00,480
in through general inquiry first and so

2983
02:08:00,480 --> 02:08:02,079
the staff planners do try to work with

2984
02:08:02,079 --> 02:08:04,400
them and we try to flag these higher

2985
02:08:04,400 --> 02:08:07,119
level, hey, did you think of X, Y, and

2986
02:08:07,119 --> 02:08:09,440
Z? Um, and provide that guidance. I

2987
02:08:09,440 --> 02:08:10,800
think that's also where we add a lot of

2988
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:13,520
those disclosures in our handouts. We

2989
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:15,679
can say, hey, did you check are you in

2990
02:08:15,679 --> 02:08:17,840
an unstable soil? You need to consider

2991
02:08:17,840 --> 02:08:19,199
that because you might have to change

2992
02:08:19,199 --> 02:08:20,800
your foundations or you have to relocate

2993
02:08:20,800 --> 02:08:22,800
it. Are you in an earthquake zone?

2994
02:08:22,800 --> 02:08:25,040
That's where we can highlight those is

2995
02:08:25,040 --> 02:08:27,040
through that process.

2996
02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:29,760
ADUs are different where there is not a

2997
02:08:29,760 --> 02:08:31,440
distinct planning permit than building

2998
02:08:31,440 --> 02:08:33,920
permit. Planning reviews as part of the

2999
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:36,079
building permit. And so those

3000
02:08:36,079 --> 02:08:38,960
considerations are being handled by

3001
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:42,320
geology by building by engineering and

3002
02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:44,800
not planning. Planning realistically

3003
02:08:44,800 --> 02:08:47,119
when we're viewing ADUs we're looking

3004
02:08:47,119 --> 02:08:48,639
are you at the 4ft side and rear

3005
02:08:48,639 --> 02:08:51,119
setbacks. If you're over 800 square

3006
02:08:51,119 --> 02:08:54,400
feet, is AMFA a concern? Are you meeting

3007
02:08:54,400 --> 02:08:55,920
our objective standards that we can

3008
02:08:55,920 --> 02:08:58,480
apply? That is what we're focused on.

3009
02:08:58,480 --> 02:09:00,400
Those other considerations, unstable

3010
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:02,400
soils, that's going to be geology will

3011
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:03,840
make the comment. Hey, you're in

3012
02:09:03,840 --> 02:09:05,520
unstable soils. You either need to move

3013
02:09:05,520 --> 02:09:09,520
it or you need to provide a solution

3014
02:09:09,520 --> 02:09:11,840
that addresses the concerns with the

3015
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:14,320
unstable soil. You know, one of my uh

3016
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:16,480
colleagues that in building says if you

3017
02:09:16,480 --> 02:09:18,480
have enough time, money and energy, you

3018
02:09:18,480 --> 02:09:20,079
can make anything work for the building

3019
02:09:20,079 --> 02:09:22,639
code purposes, right? And so that is

3020
02:09:22,639 --> 02:09:25,280
where those concerns are caught and

3021
02:09:25,280 --> 02:09:28,239
those are reviewed by those departments.

3022
02:09:28,239 --> 02:09:30,560
>> Okay. Um and then to switch over to the

3023
02:09:30,560 --> 02:09:34,079
parking issue, um as you said, we are

3024
02:09:34,079 --> 02:09:37,520
allowed to require one parking space per

3025
02:09:37,520 --> 02:09:41,199
ADU for the 66314s.

3026
02:09:41,199 --> 02:09:43,280
and you gave a bunch of reasons for why

3027
02:09:43,280 --> 02:09:46,000
it just wouldn't be

3028
02:09:46,000 --> 02:09:48,159
there was kind of no point because there

3029
02:09:48,159 --> 02:09:52,000
it would be so few properties. Um, so

3030
02:09:52,000 --> 02:09:54,239
are you saying you gave a bunch of

3031
02:09:54,239 --> 02:09:56,320
examples of the types of applications

3032
02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:58,400
you're coming in and the one you didn't

3033
02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:00,719
mention was just

3034
02:10:00,719 --> 02:10:03,119
an existing property that decides to add

3035
02:10:03,119 --> 02:10:05,440
an ADU.

3036
02:10:05,440 --> 02:10:07,199
So in

3037
02:10:07,199 --> 02:10:12,239
>> in in in most cases that one may require

3038
02:10:12,239 --> 02:10:15,520
parking um in those cases. Yes. So we

3039
02:10:15,520 --> 02:10:18,159
could apply that to that. That's not as

3040
02:10:18,159 --> 02:10:19,760
often that's not the one that we're

3041
02:10:19,760 --> 02:10:21,280
getting the most. A lot of them are the

3042
02:10:21,280 --> 02:10:23,360
conversion that we're getting and so

3043
02:10:23,360 --> 02:10:25,440
that's why I brought that up. Yes, that

3044
02:10:25,440 --> 02:10:26,880
would be one of the situations somebody

3045
02:10:26,880 --> 02:10:30,320
builds a new dash building. Um, you

3046
02:10:30,320 --> 02:10:32,480
would be required to provide one parking

3047
02:10:32,480 --> 02:10:34,159
space unless they meet one of the other

3048
02:10:34,159 --> 02:10:37,040
criteria. One thing to keep in mind is

3049
02:10:37,040 --> 02:10:39,679
per how we have the standards. So, if we

3050
02:10:39,679 --> 02:10:41,599
do require parking, let's say, hey, we

3051
02:10:41,599 --> 02:10:43,040
require parking. They're like, oh, I

3052
02:10:43,040 --> 02:10:44,960
need to build a second driveway. And

3053
02:10:44,960 --> 02:10:46,639
that's going to trigger grading. If we

3054
02:10:46,639 --> 02:10:48,960
say parking's required, that goes to

3055
02:10:48,960 --> 02:10:51,199
that part of like the site improvements

3056
02:10:51,199 --> 02:10:53,440
where you have to follow our normal

3057
02:10:53,440 --> 02:10:56,480
process in excess of what's the minimum

3058
02:10:56,480 --> 02:11:00,000
necessary permit that unit. They then

3059
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:02,880
could minister add a second driveway to

3060
02:11:02,880 --> 02:11:05,119
provide the parking that's required for

3061
02:11:05,119 --> 02:11:08,079
that unit and that could involve rating

3062
02:11:08,079 --> 02:11:09,840
that exceeds the thresholds that we

3063
02:11:09,840 --> 02:11:12,000
have, but we have to ministerally still

3064
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:13,920
approve that. So by actually not

3065
02:11:13,920 --> 02:11:17,040
requiring parking, we're hoping kind of

3066
02:11:17,040 --> 02:11:19,679
that site improvement side where hey, if

3067
02:11:19,679 --> 02:11:21,119
you want to provide parking, you want to

3068
02:11:21,119 --> 02:11:23,360
provide that second driveway, sure,

3069
02:11:23,360 --> 02:11:25,119
you're going to ASC or you're going to

3070
02:11:25,119 --> 02:11:27,119
planning commission. So it's kind of a

3071
02:11:27,119 --> 02:11:29,920
weird roundabout way to get there, but

3072
02:11:29,920 --> 02:11:31,599
that's why we're only permitting what

3073
02:11:31,599 --> 02:11:34,400
you need to get that unit.

3074
02:11:34,400 --> 02:11:36,560
And but you have but you do include if

3075
02:11:36,560 --> 02:11:39,520
somebody wants to um have parking on

3076
02:11:39,520 --> 02:11:42,079
their site, they they're required to

3077
02:11:42,079 --> 02:11:44,639
follow our ordinance which requires a

3078
02:11:44,639 --> 02:11:49,119
carport. So do you feel that that you don't well I guess you don't feel

3079
02:11:49,119 --> 02:11:52,639
that that's a problem with six uh I

3080
02:11:52,639 --> 02:11:55,280
66311

3081
02:11:55,280 --> 02:11:58,239
maybe which says um

3082
02:11:58,239 --> 02:12:02,320
>> where would I find 6631 maintenance? Uh

3083
02:12:02,320 --> 02:12:04,320
>> that's isn't that the state code?

3084
02:12:04,320 --> 02:12:06,719
>> It's the state code. State code. It it's

3085
02:12:06,719 --> 02:12:08,639
where the intent of the legislature is

3086
02:12:08,639 --> 02:12:11,760
that you don't um

3087
02:12:11,760 --> 02:12:13,199
>> uh so that you don't create something

3088
02:12:13,199 --> 02:12:14,960
that's so arbitrary, excessive, or

3089
02:12:14,960 --> 02:12:17,520
burdensome so as to unreasonably

3090
02:12:17,520 --> 02:12:18,960
restrict the ability of homeowners to

3091
02:12:18,960 --> 02:12:20,639
create accessory dwelling units. So to

3092
02:12:20,639 --> 02:12:23,920
me, um

3093
02:12:23,920 --> 02:12:25,599
you know, I'm not going to I just wanted

3094
02:12:25,599 --> 02:12:26,960
to get your feedback that you don't feel

3095
02:12:26,960 --> 02:12:28,960
that it's burdensome to require someone

3096
02:12:28,960 --> 02:12:32,719
to create a carport.

3097
02:12:32,719 --> 02:12:35,840
So we have that standard to kind of also

3098
02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:37,840
reflect there are some setbacks for

3099
02:12:37,840 --> 02:12:40,079
parking and things that in that section.

3100
02:12:40,079 --> 02:12:43,599
you know the this uh 66314

3101
02:12:43,599 --> 02:12:46,880
10 which talks about parking basically

3102
02:12:46,880 --> 02:12:48,800
says yes you can provide parking but it

3103
02:12:48,800 --> 02:12:51,280
cannot exceed you know one parking space

3104
02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:53,920
per accessory dwelling unit or per uh

3105
02:12:53,920 --> 02:12:56,000
bedroom whichever is less and these

3106
02:12:56,000 --> 02:13:00,560
spaces may be provided um tandem on the

3107
02:13:00,560 --> 02:13:04,480
driveway and so that is kind of where

3108
02:13:04,480 --> 02:13:07,440
could request just a driveway space even

3109
02:13:07,440 --> 02:13:10,000
though it says may be provided

3110
02:13:10,000 --> 02:13:12,079
the the guidance documents are saying

3111
02:13:12,079 --> 02:13:14,400
that if they request that you have to

3112
02:13:14,400 --> 02:13:18,480
grant that. So it's may they they have

3113
02:13:18,480 --> 02:13:20,560
the applicant has the option to provide

3114
02:13:20,560 --> 02:13:23,520
it in the driveway not that we have the

3115
02:13:23,520 --> 02:13:26,719
option to require them to

3116
02:13:26,719 --> 02:13:29,599
>> okay and I guess my my other main major

3117
02:13:29,599 --> 02:13:31,440
question going back to the 1,200 square

3118
02:13:31,440 --> 02:13:34,400
foot. So we're not required to allow

3119
02:13:34,400 --> 02:13:37,280
1,200 square foot. And given that your

3120
02:13:37,280 --> 02:13:40,000
interpretation is that we have to allow

3121
02:13:40,000 --> 02:13:45,199
4 foot setbacks for every ADU, which I

3122
02:13:45,199 --> 02:13:47,840
take issue with that interpretation, but

3123
02:13:47,840 --> 02:13:50,079
you know, I can't do much about that.

3124
02:13:50,079 --> 02:13:54,239
Why would we as a town allow 1,200

3125
02:13:54,239 --> 02:13:56,480
square foots if they could be placed at

3126
02:13:56,480 --> 02:13:58,320
4 feet from the property line? Why not

3127
02:13:58,320 --> 02:14:00,400
stick to the maximum that we're required

3128
02:14:00,400 --> 02:14:04,400
to for by the code which is 850 or 1,000

3129
02:14:04,400 --> 02:14:08,560
square ft? Why open that up to why why

3130
02:14:08,560 --> 02:14:10,400
allow it? I mean, I'm not against 1,200

3131
02:14:10,400 --> 02:14:12,000
square feet. You know, I I just don't

3132
02:14:12,000 --> 02:14:13,520
want them four feet from property line

3133
02:14:13,520 --> 02:14:14,960
if I don't, you know, if we're not

3134
02:14:14,960 --> 02:14:18,239
required to have that. So why so

3135
02:14:18,239 --> 02:14:20,320
>> this came as a result of the study

3136
02:14:20,320 --> 02:14:24,320
session with so the original uh proposal

3137
02:14:24,320 --> 02:14:27,440
was the 850 and a,000 the planning

3138
02:14:27,440 --> 02:14:29,920
commission had that conversation like

3139
02:14:29,920 --> 02:14:32,239
hey do we think they brought up how our

3140
02:14:32,239 --> 02:14:34,639
existing ordinance does allow 1500 are

3141
02:14:34,639 --> 02:14:38,159
we penalizing people you know are and

3142
02:14:38,159 --> 02:14:40,560
kind of had that robust discussion about

3143
02:14:40,560 --> 02:14:43,119
that and they kind of provided direction

3144
02:14:43,119 --> 02:14:45,040
to staff is like hey look at it and

3145
02:14:45,040 --> 02:14:47,119
maybe find a middle they they were

3146
02:14:47,119 --> 02:14:49,440
feeling some of the members on the

3147
02:14:49,440 --> 02:14:51,280
commission were feeling maybe that was a

3148
02:14:51,280 --> 02:14:53,360
little too restricted. We want to

3149
02:14:53,360 --> 02:14:55,679
encourage ADUs and by restricting them

3150
02:14:55,679 --> 02:14:58,639
that small we're not encouraging that

3151
02:14:58,639 --> 02:15:00,800
and there was other members that were

3152
02:15:00,800 --> 02:15:03,360
like well that's that's big that's a

3153
02:15:03,360 --> 02:15:05,520
giant unit 4T from the property line

3154
02:15:05,520 --> 02:15:08,159
kind of that same concern. Um and when

3155
02:15:08,159 --> 02:15:09,920
we came back the planning commission did

3156
02:15:09,920 --> 02:15:13,360
review that and did recommend the 1,200.

3157
02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:15,040
So this is definitely a discussion, you

3158
02:15:15,040 --> 02:15:17,440
know, the council we can kind of hear

3159
02:15:17,440 --> 02:15:19,040
from the council. We we know the

3160
02:15:19,040 --> 02:15:20,719
language that we could replace it with

3161
02:15:20,719 --> 02:15:22,320
and staff can definitely provide that as

3162
02:15:22,320 --> 02:15:24,239
a recommendation if you want it to go

3163
02:15:24,239 --> 02:15:26,960
with a minimum. But based off of the

3164
02:15:26,960 --> 02:15:28,239
feedback that we got from the planning

3165
02:15:28,239 --> 02:15:29,520
commission, that's why we move forward

3166
02:15:29,520 --> 02:15:30,880
with

3167
02:15:30,880 --> 02:15:32,159
>> And then um

3168
02:15:32,159 --> 02:15:34,320
>> so my um next question is about the

3169
02:15:34,320 --> 02:15:36,719
fees, the fee section and stuff. Could

3170
02:15:36,719 --> 02:15:38,880
you speak a little bit to who actually

3171
02:15:38,880 --> 02:15:41,599
has the authority

3172
02:15:41,599 --> 02:15:44,800
um to set these to make these

3173
02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:47,840
determinations about um

3174
02:15:47,840 --> 02:15:50,400
uh not so much the fees but the um

3175
02:15:50,400 --> 02:15:53,760
connections to the utilities um with

3176
02:15:53,760 --> 02:15:56,159
separate connections versus um not

3177
02:15:56,159 --> 02:15:58,480
separate connections. Um I realize that

3178
02:15:58,480 --> 02:16:02,000
66323 you can't you you can't require

3179
02:16:02,000 --> 02:16:03,760
them. Nobody can can require them I

3180
02:16:03,760 --> 02:16:07,840
think to have a separate connection if they don't want it but for obviously

3181
02:16:07,840 --> 02:16:09,679
for the 66

3182
02:16:09,679 --> 02:16:14,159
31 6314s you know the normal ones

3183
02:16:14,159 --> 02:16:20,400
somebody has jurisdiction to allow um to require a new or separate utility

3184
02:16:20,400 --> 02:16:22,239
connection directly between the ADU and

3185
02:16:22,239 --> 02:16:23,920
the utility. So could you speak to that

3186
02:16:23,920 --> 02:16:25,440
because that's the wording that you put

3187
02:16:25,440 --> 02:16:26,639
in into this.

3188
02:16:26,639 --> 02:16:31,760
>> The utilities generally do have that

3189
02:16:31,760 --> 02:16:33,760
authority. They they have their

3190
02:16:33,760 --> 02:16:35,920
authorizations to require that under

3191
02:16:35,920 --> 02:16:38,240
this ordinance. And I know there has

3192
02:16:38,240 --> 02:16:41,280
been some conversations on exactly who

3193
02:16:41,280 --> 02:16:43,760
when. There is also situations where

3194
02:16:43,760 --> 02:16:47,280
even a 66323 unit does have to require

3195
02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:50,960
utility. For example, A80 Ridge, which

3196
02:16:50,960 --> 02:16:54,479
was that, you know, um, house, new house

3197
02:16:54,479 --> 02:16:57,439
with an ADU, they did have to provide or

3198
02:16:57,439 --> 02:16:59,519
P Gen required them to have a separate

3199
02:16:59,519 --> 02:17:01,280
utility connection because they were

3200
02:17:01,280 --> 02:17:03,599
being built with primary house. So, that

3201
02:17:03,599 --> 02:17:06,000
is an example even though it's a 66323

3202
02:17:06,000 --> 02:17:09,760
unit, that does still trigger P& has the

3203
02:17:09,760 --> 02:17:12,000
right to say, yes, we want you to have a

3204
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:14,319
separate meter or the sewer district, we

3205
02:17:14,319 --> 02:17:15,920
want you to have a separate meter in

3206
02:17:15,920 --> 02:17:19,120
line. um those authorities are kind of

3207
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:22,719
left with the utilities. We are

3208
02:17:22,719 --> 02:17:25,599
including it because it's in the statute

3209
02:17:25,599 --> 02:17:27,599
and other jurisdictions have tried to

3210
02:17:27,599 --> 02:17:30,399
leave it off and HCD has said in their

3211
02:17:30,399 --> 02:17:32,240
comment letters, you don't have this,

3212
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:34,639
you're not compliant with state law. So

3213
02:17:34,639 --> 02:17:36,319
that even though we don't have the

3214
02:17:36,319 --> 02:17:38,639
authority, we are doing that to kind of

3215
02:17:38,639 --> 02:17:40,880
just address that comment from HCD

3216
02:17:40,880 --> 02:17:42,399
saying, hey, you need to have this in

3217
02:17:42,399 --> 02:17:44,719
your ordinance. And on that note,

3218
02:17:44,719 --> 02:17:46,719
there's quite a few sections within the

3219
02:17:46,719 --> 02:17:49,439
ordinance that are not included in here.

3220
02:17:49,439 --> 02:17:52,240
Um, so is was there can you discuss a

3221
02:17:52,240 --> 02:17:53,760
little bit the discussion of why you

3222
02:17:53,760 --> 02:17:57,120
left off like the whole thing about um

3223
02:17:57,120 --> 02:18:01,519
selling ADUs or um you know a lot of the

3224
02:18:01,519 --> 02:18:03,840
last stuff at the very end of the of the

3225
02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:06,080
um of the ordinance was just not

3226
02:18:06,080 --> 02:18:08,880
included. So the sale of the or uh sale

3227
02:18:08,880 --> 02:18:13,200
of the ADUs, there are some explicit

3228
02:18:13,200 --> 02:18:14,719
requirements that we have to allow for

3229
02:18:14,719 --> 02:18:18,080
the separate sale of it. However, it's

3230
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:21,519
an opt-in process outside of those

3231
02:18:21,519 --> 02:18:25,840
specific exceptions. Um and we were not

3232
02:18:25,840 --> 02:18:28,719
proposing to allow ADUs to be sold

3233
02:18:28,719 --> 02:18:30,880
separately except for where the state

3234
02:18:30,880 --> 02:18:34,000
requires us to. and the state has um

3235
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:36,719
allowed just by reference those. So

3236
02:18:36,719 --> 02:18:39,920
that's why that language was not put in

3237
02:18:39,920 --> 02:18:41,519
um

3238
02:18:41,519 --> 02:18:43,040
for that specific example.

3239
02:18:43,040 --> 02:18:45,040
>> And then for the education fees, that

3240
02:18:45,040 --> 02:18:46,639
one was also left out. Was there a

3241
02:18:46,639 --> 02:18:51,359
reason why chose not to include that?

3242
02:18:51,359 --> 02:18:52,800
>> Again, reviewing through their

3243
02:18:52,800 --> 02:18:54,880
documents, they did not call out the

3244
02:18:54,880 --> 02:18:57,840
jurisdiction for not having that in. Um

3245
02:18:57,840 --> 02:18:59,840
we can we can add that in and add that

3246
02:18:59,840 --> 02:19:04,160
language there. Um but you know we'll we

3247
02:19:04,160 --> 02:19:05,840
feel confident enough moving forward

3248
02:19:05,840 --> 02:19:07,920
without that inclusion because we have

3249
02:19:07,920 --> 02:19:11,040
not seen that call out in their guidance

3250
02:19:11,040 --> 02:19:12,800
documents when it wasn't.

3251
02:19:12,800 --> 02:19:14,559
>> So you don't really feel like uh

3252
02:19:14,559 --> 02:19:15,920
residents and architects should be

3253
02:19:15,920 --> 02:19:17,679
informed of all the fees they're going

3254
02:19:17,679 --> 02:19:19,120
to face so that we don't end up with

3255
02:19:19,120 --> 02:19:21,200
another westbay sanitary district

3256
02:19:21,200 --> 02:19:24,559
debacle. One of the uh conversations um

3257
02:19:24,559 --> 02:19:26,800
staff has had and in other jurisdictions

3258
02:19:26,800 --> 02:19:29,840
what we do is we have a handout that

3259
02:19:29,840 --> 02:19:32,960
lists all the fees that possibly could

3260
02:19:32,960 --> 02:19:35,519
apply to their project and I think that

3261
02:19:35,519 --> 02:19:37,439
is definitely something we need because

3262
02:19:37,439 --> 02:19:39,840
there are there are other fees that do

3263
02:19:39,840 --> 02:19:42,000
apply and help kind of give them a

3264
02:19:42,000 --> 02:19:44,559
picture of that upfront as part of those

3265
02:19:44,559 --> 02:19:46,160
documents. I I think that is something

3266
02:19:46,160 --> 02:19:48,559
we should do anyways because we do just

3267
02:19:48,559 --> 02:19:50,399
we you know we discuss the utility fees

3268
02:19:50,399 --> 02:19:53,040
but we don't clarify what they are and

3269
02:19:53,040 --> 02:19:56,080
this is who is the fee who or who owns

3270
02:19:56,080 --> 02:19:58,640
the fee so who's applying the fee and

3271
02:19:58,640 --> 02:20:01,040
how to contact them and if possible we

3272
02:20:01,040 --> 02:20:03,200
can say this is their calculations for

3273
02:20:03,200 --> 02:20:05,359
their fees. So that is something that

3274
02:20:05,359 --> 02:20:07,200
staff has kind of discussed and want to

3275
02:20:07,200 --> 02:20:09,840
include as part of our handouts to help

3276
02:20:09,840 --> 02:20:11,680
guide them specifically for that.

3277
02:20:11,680 --> 02:20:16,319
>> And um given the extreme bandwidth

3278
02:20:16,319 --> 02:20:18,560
issues right now and the amount of work

3279
02:20:18,560 --> 02:20:21,200
that the planning department has, do you

3280
02:20:21,200 --> 02:20:23,600
have a sense of when the community would

3281
02:20:23,600 --> 02:20:25,600
be able to anticipate receiving those

3282
02:20:25,600 --> 02:20:27,359
all these extra handouts and that

3283
02:20:27,359 --> 02:20:30,319
actually guidelines that describe this?

3284
02:20:30,319 --> 02:20:33,120
You know the one thing I you know really

3285
02:20:33,120 --> 02:20:35,920
is once we have this locked down we can

3286
02:20:35,920 --> 02:20:38,160
start moving forward. We have examples

3287
02:20:38,160 --> 02:20:39,920
from other jurisdictions that do this

3288
02:20:39,920 --> 02:20:43,040
quite well and staff is has those kind

3289
02:20:43,040 --> 02:20:45,040
of ready. We just need to know what our

3290
02:20:45,040 --> 02:20:46,560
ordinance is going to be and what our

3291
02:20:46,560 --> 02:20:48,319
standards are going to be so we can

3292
02:20:48,319 --> 02:20:50,399
update them. And you know Sarah can

3293
02:20:50,399 --> 02:20:53,600
definitely discuss more the capacity um

3294
02:20:53,600 --> 02:20:55,840
and how quickly we expect we can get

3295
02:20:55,840 --> 02:20:58,160
those out. I think at the moment, you

3296
02:20:58,160 --> 02:21:00,080
know, as we're seeing issues with some

3297
02:21:00,080 --> 02:21:02,160
of our processes or communications,

3298
02:21:02,160 --> 02:21:03,680
we're trying to do that more immediately

3299
02:21:03,680 --> 02:21:05,680
with people in the system or applying

3300
02:21:05,680 --> 02:21:07,520
now and that's informing either our

3301
02:21:07,520 --> 02:21:09,120
permit tech or reviewers to make sure

3302
02:21:09,120 --> 02:21:11,040
that they provide that information. The

3303
02:21:11,040 --> 02:21:12,640
best way that this update will happen is

3304
02:21:12,640 --> 02:21:15,439
when we're through implementing our new

3305
02:21:15,439 --> 02:21:18,880
permitting and lensure software. Uh so

3306
02:21:18,880 --> 02:21:22,240
that is a huge project that you may for

3307
02:21:22,240 --> 02:21:24,240
have forgotten that there was a budget

3308
02:21:24,240 --> 02:21:26,000
>> midyear budget approval for that and so

3309
02:21:26,000 --> 02:21:27,840
we're heading into into implementing

3310
02:21:27,840 --> 02:21:29,760
that project which will be a huge lift

3311
02:21:29,760 --> 02:21:33,200
and that will be an overall overhaul of

3312
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:35,200
uh the whole kind of permitting process

3313
02:21:35,200 --> 02:21:37,040
and so with that we would be automating

3314
02:21:37,040 --> 02:21:39,200
a lot of things and it would be

3315
02:21:39,200 --> 02:21:41,520
integrated into the application process

3316
02:21:41,520 --> 02:21:43,600
or the information provided online for

3317
02:21:43,600 --> 02:21:45,280
people and to me I know that this is an

3318
02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:47,200
important thing of when someone goes in

3319
02:21:47,200 --> 02:21:49,680
to apply to be aware of all the things

3320
02:21:49,680 --> 02:21:52,080
that they might face or all the other

3321
02:21:52,080 --> 02:21:54,319
different organizations or agencies that

3322
02:21:54,319 --> 02:21:56,560
have, you know, review authority over it

3323
02:21:56,560 --> 02:21:59,760
or other fees over their um permit or

3324
02:21:59,760 --> 02:22:01,920
their project as well. So that I think

3325
02:22:01,920 --> 02:22:03,760
we're tracking a lot of these things and

3326
02:22:03,760 --> 02:22:04,800
then making sure that we're

3327
02:22:04,800 --> 02:22:07,359
incorporating this um kind of all

3328
02:22:07,359 --> 02:22:10,160
included within this permitting update.

3329
02:22:10,160 --> 02:22:11,840
So that I would say this would track

3330
02:22:11,840 --> 02:22:14,640
together with launching the whole permit

3331
02:22:14,640 --> 02:22:17,120
system. Um, if we can do other peacemeal

3332
02:22:17,120 --> 02:22:18,960
updates, we will, but I would really

3333
02:22:18,960 --> 02:22:20,240
just try to make sure we're getting all

3334
02:22:20,240 --> 02:22:21,920
the information and then once we're

3335
02:22:21,920 --> 02:22:23,359
launching, we're launching that and all

3336
02:22:23,359 --> 02:22:25,200
that information should be available.

3337
02:22:25,200 --> 02:22:27,040
>> Okay. Thank you. And I guess my last

3338
02:22:27,040 --> 02:22:29,600
question is, um,

3339
02:22:29,600 --> 02:22:31,200
when I went through this and redlined

3340
02:22:31,200 --> 02:22:33,520
it, um, there was just a lot of areas

3341
02:22:33,520 --> 02:22:37,760
that I felt were not, um, I found it

3342
02:22:37,760 --> 02:22:39,439
unclear. There was just a lack of

3343
02:22:39,439 --> 02:22:41,040
specificity and there was just a little

3344
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:44,880
bit of, um, yeah, lack of clarity. if

3345
02:22:44,880 --> 02:22:47,520
you will, and I put in some verbiage in

3346
02:22:47,520 --> 02:22:49,439
some cases, you know, or I asked

3347
02:22:49,439 --> 02:22:53,040
questions about things um whether it

3348
02:22:53,040 --> 02:22:54,319
would be important to provide some

3349
02:22:54,319 --> 02:22:55,920
clarity, whether it's the appeal

3350
02:22:55,920 --> 02:22:58,720
process, whether it's

3351
02:22:58,720 --> 02:23:01,520
um the process of of if your project

3352
02:23:01,520 --> 02:23:04,240
gets is told that you're um don't have

3353
02:23:04,240 --> 02:23:07,760
all the materials or your you know um

3354
02:23:07,760 --> 02:23:09,680
whether or not an ADU will be considered

3355
02:23:09,680 --> 02:23:12,000
at the same time or will not be. you

3356
02:23:12,000 --> 02:23:14,640
know, there's just a little bit of um un

3357
02:23:14,640 --> 02:23:16,720
vague vagueness, if you will, in there

3358
02:23:16,720 --> 02:23:19,359
that I think causes confusion. So, um

3359
02:23:19,359 --> 02:23:20,880
did you have a chance at all to review

3360
02:23:20,880 --> 02:23:24,000
my um suggestions and um to understand

3361
02:23:24,000 --> 02:23:25,840
those kinds of areas where there where I

3362
02:23:25,840 --> 02:23:28,319
felt where I found the the ordinance to

3363
02:23:28,319 --> 02:23:30,800
be a little overly vague.

3364
02:23:30,800 --> 02:23:32,800
>> Yeah, I know. You know, I work with uh

3365
02:23:32,800 --> 02:23:35,760
Katherine and kind of um one of her um

3366
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:38,399
staff members, Nardos, to review that.

3367
02:23:38,399 --> 02:23:40,479
And you know we we did have multiple

3368
02:23:40,479 --> 02:23:43,120
meetings to kind of discuss what we saw

3369
02:23:43,120 --> 02:23:46,319
and urged and and try to identify I

3370
02:23:46,319 --> 02:23:48,319
think one of them for example the shall

3371
02:23:48,319 --> 02:23:51,920
or may in regards to processing an

3372
02:23:51,920 --> 02:23:53,840
application. So, if you submit an ADU

3373
02:23:53,840 --> 02:23:57,600
and a new house, the the town may delay

3374
02:23:57,600 --> 02:24:00,640
the um the approval of the ADU to when

3375
02:24:00,640 --> 02:24:02,479
the house is finally approved through

3376
02:24:02,479 --> 02:24:05,359
its normal process. And you know, staff

3377
02:24:05,359 --> 02:24:09,439
feels the flexibility is nice to have. I

3378
02:24:09,439 --> 02:24:13,280
mean, we can in in practical, yes, we

3379
02:24:13,280 --> 02:24:16,160
are delaying the approval of the ADU

3380
02:24:16,160 --> 02:24:19,760
till the house is done. Um I I

3381
02:24:19,760 --> 02:24:21,359
personally cannot envision in a

3382
02:24:21,359 --> 02:24:24,720
situation where we wouldn't do that, but

3383
02:24:24,720 --> 02:24:27,600
having the flexibility is useful for

3384
02:24:27,600 --> 02:24:31,280
staff if a unique situation did occur

3385
02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:33,840
where we're like actually that that

3386
02:24:33,840 --> 02:24:37,680
makes sense in this case. Um and so

3387
02:24:37,680 --> 02:24:39,280
that's why staff didn't address that

3388
02:24:39,280 --> 02:24:41,359
one. I think um some of the concerns

3389
02:24:41,359 --> 02:24:43,600
were like calendar days versus days

3390
02:24:43,600 --> 02:24:46,399
versus business days. And Katherine can

3391
02:24:46,399 --> 02:24:48,640
kind of speak to this where I guess my

3392
02:24:48,640 --> 02:24:50,960
in my understanding is that when the

3393
02:24:50,960 --> 02:24:52,960
state says days, they mean calendar

3394
02:24:52,960 --> 02:24:56,960
dates and that's established as law in

3395
02:24:56,960 --> 02:24:59,200
for the state code, it's only when they

3396
02:24:59,200 --> 02:25:01,680
specific specifically call out business

3397
02:25:01,680 --> 02:25:04,880
days. So we we felt since that was

3398
02:25:04,880 --> 02:25:07,760
already an assumption and assumed under

3399
02:25:07,760 --> 02:25:09,200
state law that we did not need to

3400
02:25:09,200 --> 02:25:11,760
provide that clarification. Um, but of

3401
02:25:11,760 --> 02:25:13,760
course we're happy to hear if council

3402
02:25:13,760 --> 02:25:16,640
does want us to add that in, we can

3403
02:25:16,640 --> 02:25:22,720
clarify all those points. Um, but and I don't know if there's any other

3404
02:25:22,720 --> 02:25:26,319
examples, but we did analyze those and

3405
02:25:26,319 --> 02:25:28,800
try to include, for example, with that

3406
02:25:28,800 --> 02:25:31,359
exhibit A that you got, what we felt we

3407
02:25:31,359 --> 02:25:34,080
could and was really the most relevant

3408
02:25:34,080 --> 02:25:35,920
and then leave up the other ones to kind

3409
02:25:35,920 --> 02:25:38,240
of more the decision from the council.

3410
02:25:38,240 --> 02:25:40,640
Would you like us to address those kind

3411
02:25:40,640 --> 02:25:43,840
of more minor clarification? Is that a

3412
02:25:43,840 --> 02:25:45,439
concern with everyone and and move

3413
02:25:45,439 --> 02:25:46,640
forward?

3414
02:25:46,640 --> 02:25:48,080
>> So, those are all my questions for the

3415
02:25:48,080 --> 02:25:50,080
ADU ordinance. So, I'd like to just pass

3416
02:25:50,080 --> 02:25:52,720
it off to them. I do have some questions

3417
02:25:52,720 --> 02:25:55,200
for the, you know, the

3418
02:25:55,200 --> 02:25:57,600
um indemnification one, but I think we

3419
02:25:57,600 --> 02:25:59,359
should stay my feeling.

3420
02:25:59,359 --> 02:26:02,640
>> Okay. That that would be great. Let's do that. I don't mind splitting up

3421
02:26:02,640 --> 02:26:05,359
the conversation between sections. Um

3422
02:26:05,359 --> 02:26:07,760
Helen, do you have comments or not

3423
02:26:07,760 --> 02:26:09,280
comments? Sorry. Do you have questions?

3424
02:26:09,280 --> 02:26:11,680
We're still there question.

3425
02:26:11,680 --> 02:26:14,640
>> Hi, thank you. Um

3426
02:26:14,640 --> 02:26:17,200
let me get

3427
02:26:17,200 --> 02:26:19,200
um

3428
02:26:19,200 --> 02:26:21,840
just for clarific I have some um

3429
02:26:21,840 --> 02:26:30,230
clarification questions.

3430
02:26:30,240 --> 02:26:35,359
Um, again, utility because of the situation we're

3431
02:26:35,359 --> 02:26:36,880
having with the West Bay Sanitary

3432
02:26:36,880 --> 02:26:43,040
District. Um, would we not include

3433
02:26:43,040 --> 02:26:45,840
just to be really clear,

3434
02:26:45,840 --> 02:26:49,439
we we would not include the the

3435
02:26:49,439 --> 02:26:51,040
because we have so many different

3436
02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:52,720
agencies.

3437
02:26:52,720 --> 02:26:55,359
Is there any reason not to include the

3438
02:26:55,359 --> 02:26:57,200
names of the agencies that over with

3439
02:26:57,200 --> 02:26:59,920
jurisdiction over because I think that

3440
02:26:59,920 --> 02:27:04,800
people think that we over

3441
02:27:04,800 --> 02:27:06,479
you know have jurisdiction over

3442
02:27:06,479 --> 02:27:10,720
sanitation and over you know Pen

3443
02:27:10,720 --> 02:27:13,120
obviously has electrical and G you know

3444
02:27:13,120 --> 02:27:16,960
like so

3445
02:27:16,960 --> 02:27:20,640
the thought there is that in our again

3446
02:27:20,640 --> 02:27:22,080
and I know I keep defaulting to the

3447
02:27:22,080 --> 02:27:23,920
handout s that's where we can be very

3448
02:27:23,920 --> 02:27:26,160
specific in including that language in

3449
02:27:26,160 --> 02:27:28,000
our municipal code. What if that

3450
02:27:28,000 --> 02:27:30,080
jurisdiction changed their name or what

3451
02:27:30,080 --> 02:27:33,439
if there is a handover of authority or

3452
02:27:33,439 --> 02:27:36,319
we get split in authority there there's

3453
02:27:36,319 --> 02:27:38,399
kind of those whatifs. So being more

3454
02:27:38,399 --> 02:27:41,520
generic tends to be the better path in

3455
02:27:41,520 --> 02:27:43,840
those specific cases. But being very

3456
02:27:43,840 --> 02:27:45,840
specific on our handouts because our

3457
02:27:45,840 --> 02:27:48,720
handouts staff can fix. we don't need to

3458
02:27:48,720 --> 02:27:51,040
come back up to council to fix those

3459
02:27:51,040 --> 02:27:53,359
where if it's in our ordinance, we would

3460
02:27:53,359 --> 02:27:55,520
and that could create just unnecessary

3461
02:27:55,520 --> 02:27:56,399
work

3462
02:27:56,399 --> 02:27:58,960
>> for staff to have to come up for those

3463
02:27:58,960 --> 02:28:00,479
really minor things.

3464
02:28:00,479 --> 02:28:05,040
>> So, and um in terms of the um without

3465
02:28:05,040 --> 02:28:07,120
even naming them that we could clearly

3466
02:28:07,120 --> 02:28:10,000
state, you know, electrical, gas,

3467
02:28:10,000 --> 02:28:13,520
sanitation is overseen by other

3468
02:28:13,520 --> 02:28:16,479
agencies, right?

3469
02:28:16,479 --> 02:28:18,000
>> Yeah. If we want to do something a

3470
02:28:18,000 --> 02:28:20,080
little more generic in that way, yes, we

3471
02:28:20,080 --> 02:28:22,640
can say, you know, or the governing or

3472
02:28:22,640 --> 02:28:27,120
the the local agency that oversees these

3473
02:28:27,120 --> 02:28:29,359
utilities and and kind of make it more

3474
02:28:29,359 --> 02:28:30,960
clear on that way. Yes, we can

3475
02:28:30,960 --> 02:28:33,280
definitely look at that and include

3476
02:28:33,280 --> 02:28:35,120
something like that if you know that is

3477
02:28:35,120 --> 02:28:36,319
council's direction.

3478
02:28:36,319 --> 02:28:37,520
>> Okay.

3479
02:28:37,520 --> 02:28:45,040
Um in terms of undergrounding of um

3480
02:28:45,040 --> 02:28:47,920
uh utility connections

3481
02:28:47,920 --> 02:28:49,840
um

3482
02:28:49,840 --> 02:28:52,479
my you know Cal

3483
02:28:52,479 --> 02:28:54,720
the letter that was sent to planning

3484
02:28:54,720 --> 02:28:57,520
commission on February 4th 2026 by

3485
02:28:57,520 --> 02:28:59,920
CalHDF

3486
02:28:59,920 --> 02:29:03,520
claims that undergrounding is

3487
02:29:03,520 --> 02:29:08,710
um not permissible requirement.

3488
02:29:08,720 --> 02:29:11,439
Um

3489
02:29:11,439 --> 02:29:16,319
and they my understanding is Cal HDF is

3490
02:29:16,319 --> 02:29:21,280
like a legal uh advocacy group well who

3491
02:29:21,280 --> 02:29:23,920
will sue us and they did send us a

3492
02:29:23,920 --> 02:29:26,640
letter. Um

3493
02:29:26,640 --> 02:29:28,479
so can you speak to the undergrounding

3494
02:29:28,479 --> 02:29:30,640
situation? There it is on page four or

3495
02:29:30,640 --> 02:29:34,640
five of their letter. Um,

3496
02:29:34,640 --> 02:29:36,960
you know, it says the town may not

3497
02:29:36,960 --> 02:29:39,120
impose such undergrounding requirements

3498
02:29:39,120 --> 02:29:44,319
on sections. Again, it's the 66323 ADUs.

3499
02:29:44,319 --> 02:29:46,000
Um,

3500
02:29:46,000 --> 02:29:48,640
and this specifically exempts such ADUs

3501
02:29:48,640 --> 02:29:51,680
from all local requirements.

3502
02:29:51,680 --> 02:29:54,240
So, it does look like,

3503
02:29:54,240 --> 02:29:56,080
you know, so if you could speak to the

3504
02:29:56,080 --> 02:29:58,160
undergrounding situation.

3505
02:29:58,160 --> 02:29:59,600
>> Yeah, just give me one second. I want to

3506
02:29:59,600 --> 02:30:01,600
pull it up so I can read the exact

3507
02:30:01,600 --> 02:30:04,080
>> right. And maybe it is with the I'm

3508
02:30:04,080 --> 02:30:08,080
gonna forget the other um

3509
02:30:08,080 --> 02:30:12,720
and um it's the and maybe it's under uh

3510
02:30:12,720 --> 02:30:15,040
66314.

3511
02:30:15,040 --> 02:30:17,680
But because we have, you know, we did

3512
02:30:17,680 --> 02:30:20,560
get a legal letter not from HCD but from

3513
02:30:20,560 --> 02:30:24,319
a different group who also sues um I'm

3514
02:30:24,319 --> 02:30:32,230
curious about this section

3515
02:30:32,240 --> 02:30:35,600
and so with and I just clarify we're

3516
02:30:35,600 --> 02:30:37,200
going to be discussing section I think

3517
02:30:37,200 --> 02:30:40,800
it's under utility connection so E5 so

3518
02:30:40,800 --> 02:30:43,680
when there is a proposed utility

3519
02:30:43,680 --> 02:30:46,880
connection between them. We um they have

3520
02:30:46,880 --> 02:30:49,280
to underground it. And so again, we are

3521
02:30:49,280 --> 02:30:52,080
not specifying that if you have to

3522
02:30:52,080 --> 02:30:53,680
underground

3523
02:30:53,680 --> 02:30:55,840
uh if there are other ways for you to

3524
02:30:55,840 --> 02:30:58,319
provide that utility connection. And

3525
02:30:58,319 --> 02:31:01,120
this is where it gets a little

3526
02:31:01,120 --> 02:31:04,479
unique. So in most cases, the utility

3527
02:31:04,479 --> 02:31:06,240
connection generally goes directly

3528
02:31:06,240 --> 02:31:08,479
through the existing service. It's a sub

3529
02:31:08,479 --> 02:31:11,040
panel on the house or it's tied into the

3530
02:31:11,040 --> 02:31:13,200
existing houses.

3531
02:31:13,200 --> 02:31:16,240
Um, this would only be in the cases

3532
02:31:16,240 --> 02:31:18,880
where they are proposing that direct

3533
02:31:18,880 --> 02:31:21,359
connection. We're not requiring them to

3534
02:31:21,359 --> 02:31:23,359
do that direct connection, but if

3535
02:31:23,359 --> 02:31:24,960
they're proposing it, we are requesting

3536
02:31:24,960 --> 02:31:27,040
that they underground, for example, the

3537
02:31:27,040 --> 02:31:30,240
electrical line. And so that is, and

3538
02:31:30,240 --> 02:31:31,680
Katherine, you can correct me if I'm

3539
02:31:31,680 --> 02:31:33,840
wrong, in our interpretation of the

3540
02:31:33,840 --> 02:31:36,880
state law, that is consistent with the

3541
02:31:36,880 --> 02:31:39,439
provisions because we are not requiring

3542
02:31:39,439 --> 02:31:41,120
them to underground. But if you propose

3543
02:31:41,120 --> 02:31:44,319
to do utility connection or if you

3544
02:31:44,319 --> 02:31:46,319
propose to do that, you're not required

3545
02:31:46,319 --> 02:31:49,280
to do the direct utility connection

3546
02:31:49,280 --> 02:31:51,439
except in very certain situations,

3547
02:31:51,439 --> 02:31:53,760
right?

3548
02:31:53,760 --> 02:31:55,359
Um

3549
02:31:55,359 --> 02:31:59,120
in most other situations, you're not connecting directly to the

3550
02:31:59,120 --> 02:32:00,960
utility. You're directing through the

3551
02:32:00,960 --> 02:32:03,359
existing system and those were not

3552
02:32:03,359 --> 02:32:04,800
requiring the underground data.

3553
02:32:04,800 --> 02:32:07,200
>> When you say existing system, are you

3554
02:32:07,200 --> 02:32:09,840
talking about the primary residence?

3555
02:32:09,840 --> 02:32:11,920
Yes. And so what this is really focused

3556
02:32:11,920 --> 02:32:14,080
on and and this is saying a separate

3557
02:32:14,080 --> 02:32:16,720
utility interaction directly between the

3558
02:32:16,720 --> 02:32:20,080
utility and the unit. So if you are

3559
02:32:20,080 --> 02:32:23,600
providing a separate meter for the ADU

3560
02:32:23,600 --> 02:32:26,560
and you are running a new power line

3561
02:32:26,560 --> 02:32:30,080
from PG&'s pole to the house or to the

3562
02:32:30,080 --> 02:32:32,479
ADU. If you propose that, you're not

3563
02:32:32,479 --> 02:32:34,880
required to in most situations to do

3564
02:32:34,880 --> 02:32:36,960
that. If you propose to do that, we do

3565
02:32:36,960 --> 02:32:42,790
want you to undercut it.

3566
02:32:42,800 --> 02:32:47,040
And does this uh follow does this follow

3567
02:32:47,040 --> 02:32:50,560
state law? I mean obviously like you

3568
02:32:50,560 --> 02:32:53,280
know for fire reasons I like things

3569
02:32:53,280 --> 02:32:55,760
undergrounded but again I don't want the

3570
02:32:55,760 --> 02:33:00,240
town to you know like so um

3571
02:33:00,240 --> 02:33:02,640
>> it's similar to the parking situation.

3572
02:33:02,640 --> 02:33:05,359
If you elect to provide parking besides

3573
02:33:05,359 --> 02:33:07,120
it being in a garage, we can still

3574
02:33:07,120 --> 02:33:08,960
require additional standards like it

3575
02:33:08,960 --> 02:33:11,120
needs needs to be outside the setbacks,

3576
02:33:11,120 --> 02:33:12,880
it needs to be on concrete, you can't

3577
02:33:12,880 --> 02:33:16,240
have it be on, you know, dirt. We can

3578
02:33:16,240 --> 02:33:18,160
still apply those standards because it's

3579
02:33:18,160 --> 02:33:20,960
more like they're opting into that.

3580
02:33:20,960 --> 02:33:23,920
>> So, I mean, in when I built my ADU, I

3581
02:33:23,920 --> 02:33:27,600
went off a I have a separate meter and

3582
02:33:27,600 --> 02:33:30,720
uh I was require and I was required to

3583
02:33:30,720 --> 02:33:33,359
underground. it was extraordinarily

3584
02:33:33,359 --> 02:33:36,960
expensive. So my you know um the

3585
02:33:36,960 --> 02:33:41,359
trenching is heinously expensive. Um and

3586
02:33:41,359 --> 02:33:45,120
because of the the uh configuration of

3587
02:33:45,120 --> 02:33:47,040
the electrical poles, it made much more

3588
02:33:47,040 --> 02:33:50,240
sense than coming off the primary. Um,

3589
02:33:50,240 --> 02:33:54,800
so and then to see Cal HDF say that this

3590
02:33:54,800 --> 02:33:57,600
is not permissible, but you're saying

3591
02:33:57,600 --> 02:33:59,600
you're asking, but it does look like the

3592
02:33:59,600 --> 02:34:02,319
verbiage says shall be placed

3593
02:34:02,319 --> 02:34:03,840
underground,

3594
02:34:03,840 --> 02:34:08,080
right? So this is why I'm like

3595
02:34:08,080 --> 02:34:09,439
>> kind of Catherine, I don't know.

3596
02:34:09,439 --> 02:34:11,600
>> I'll see if So I think the legal issue

3597
02:34:11,600 --> 02:34:13,280
is whether this is excessively

3598
02:34:13,280 --> 02:34:16,160
burdensome. Um, and that's that's what

3599
02:34:16,160 --> 02:34:17,439
we talked about too with the with the

3600
02:34:17,439 --> 02:34:20,720
parking. Um and the reason that we as

3601
02:34:20,720 --> 02:34:22,479
staff don't believe we would trigger

3602
02:34:22,479 --> 02:34:25,600
that is because the um applicant would

3603
02:34:25,600 --> 02:34:27,920
be opting in to the decision to

3604
02:34:27,920 --> 02:34:30,720
underground. It would not be required.

3605
02:34:30,720 --> 02:34:32,479
Um all that said, this is a policy

3606
02:34:32,479 --> 02:34:35,200
decision for council. Um there was I

3607
02:34:35,200 --> 02:34:36,319
think a fair amount of discussion at the

3608
02:34:36,319 --> 02:34:37,680
planning commission about this this

3609
02:34:37,680 --> 02:34:39,200
provision and this is ultimately reflect

3610
02:34:39,200 --> 02:34:40,640
their recommendation, but this is a

3611
02:34:40,640 --> 02:34:42,000
policy decision.

3612
02:34:42,000 --> 02:34:43,520
>> Okay.

3613
02:34:43,520 --> 02:34:59,280
Thank you. Um next question. Um

3614
02:34:59,280 --> 02:35:04,720
adjusted maximum floor area. Um

3615
02:35:04,720 --> 02:35:08,399
just to be clear, 66323

3616
02:35:08,399 --> 02:35:11,520
can be up 4T up against a fence and not

3617
02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:13,760
count towards the overall. Is that

3618
02:35:13,760 --> 02:35:15,359
correct?

3619
02:35:15,359 --> 02:35:19,040
So with how we have the wording for the

3620
02:35:19,040 --> 02:35:22,560
AMFA and the the similar requirements is

3621
02:35:22,560 --> 02:35:26,000
that the ADU does still count, but we

3622
02:35:26,000 --> 02:35:29,040
have to minimally allow either the 663T3

3623
02:35:29,040 --> 02:35:35,120
units and the you know the 66314 unit up

3624
02:35:35,120 --> 02:35:38,479
to 800 square feet. So if they propose

3625
02:35:38,479 --> 02:35:41,040
le let's say they are 800 square f feet

3626
02:35:41,040 --> 02:35:44,720
below AMFA and they propose two ADUs.

3627
02:35:44,720 --> 02:35:46,720
They propose one under the state exempt

3628
02:35:46,720 --> 02:35:52,080
the 800 square foot um you know uh 66323

3629
02:35:52,080 --> 02:35:54,160
unit. They can do that. They are now at

3630
02:35:54,160 --> 02:35:58,319
maximum AMF. They still can um apply for

3631
02:35:58,319 --> 02:36:02,160
an ADU under 66314 which is our

3632
02:36:02,160 --> 02:36:05,680
ordinance but they only get 800 ft. they

3633
02:36:05,680 --> 02:36:07,520
don't get the 1,200 because they are

3634
02:36:07,520 --> 02:36:11,439
only allowed to exceed the AMFA the

3635
02:36:11,439 --> 02:36:14,399
maximum necessary to facilitate at least

3636
02:36:14,399 --> 02:36:16,800
800 square feet. So we do still have it

3637
02:36:16,800 --> 02:36:19,840
counting. One one other impact of this

3638
02:36:19,840 --> 02:36:22,240
is let's say you do do these units, you

3639
02:36:22,240 --> 02:36:24,960
are now above AMFA, you can't do an

3640
02:36:24,960 --> 02:36:27,600
addition to your house because you have

3641
02:36:27,600 --> 02:36:30,080
already exceeded it. So any future

3642
02:36:30,080 --> 02:36:32,640
additions would be prohibited at that

3643
02:36:32,640 --> 02:36:34,399
point. And so that's why that is worded

3644
02:36:34,399 --> 02:36:36,720
this way is so that people don't

3645
02:36:36,720 --> 02:36:39,040
necessarily take advantage of that. If

3646
02:36:39,040 --> 02:36:40,960
we don't count all those ADUs towards

3647
02:36:40,960 --> 02:36:43,680
AMFA, you could they could build all

3648
02:36:43,680 --> 02:36:45,520
those and still do the additions to the

3649
02:36:45,520 --> 02:36:48,319
houses and we get a lot more structures

3650
02:36:48,319 --> 02:36:51,280
than what we intend for or more square

3651
02:36:51,280 --> 02:36:53,600
footage than we intended for.

3652
02:36:53,600 --> 02:36:59,030
>> Okay. Thank you. Um

3653
02:36:59,040 --> 02:37:01,760
in terms of the height limits um I find

3654
02:37:01,760 --> 02:37:05,520
the height limits um confusing.

3655
02:37:05,520 --> 02:37:09,200
Um has there did planning commission has

3656
02:37:09,200 --> 02:37:12,800
anyone talked about the height allowable

3657
02:37:12,800 --> 02:37:14,640
changing at all? Am I the only one

3658
02:37:14,640 --> 02:37:18,319
raising this question?

3659
02:37:18,319 --> 02:37:21,840
I actually believe um council member

3660
02:37:21,840 --> 02:37:24,080
Finn did in one of her comments kind of

3661
02:37:24,080 --> 02:37:26,960
like hey can't we just do this uh in

3662
02:37:26,960 --> 02:37:29,760
regards to height but we what is

3663
02:37:29,760 --> 02:37:32,160
proposed is the default in state law

3664
02:37:32,160 --> 02:37:34,560
those are the height limits we can

3665
02:37:34,560 --> 02:37:38,319
require um I think one of the way places

3666
02:37:38,319 --> 02:37:40,800
that the council could provide policy

3667
02:37:40,800 --> 02:37:46,160
discretion is if we want to allow the slightly greater height our base

3668
02:37:46,160 --> 02:37:49,200
zoning that back or I'm sorry, our base

3669
02:37:49,200 --> 02:37:52,880
zoning height does allow uh 28 or 30 in

3670
02:37:52,880 --> 02:37:54,479
certain situations depending on where

3671
02:37:54,479 --> 02:37:58,960
you are. Um that's higher than the 25.

3672
02:37:58,960 --> 02:38:00,800
You could we could default to that if

3673
02:38:00,800 --> 02:38:02,880
that is the guidance. We just left in

3674
02:38:02,880 --> 02:38:05,200
the language that was in state law in

3675
02:38:05,200 --> 02:38:07,760
regards to height.

3676
02:38:07,760 --> 02:38:17,040
>> Okay. Thank you. Um

3677
02:38:17,040 --> 02:38:20,800
okay. Um in terms of landscaping and

3678
02:38:20,800 --> 02:38:23,520
this was per the ADU handbook of March

3679
02:38:23,520 --> 02:38:25,920
2026.

3680
02:38:25,920 --> 02:38:29,120
Um and this my guess

3681
02:38:29,120 --> 02:38:32,080
um so this seemed updated. I did not get

3682
02:38:32,080 --> 02:38:36,720
to compare the see uh today's version.

3683
02:38:36,720 --> 02:38:39,760
So this is last night's version.

3684
02:38:39,760 --> 02:38:41,920
Um

3685
02:38:41,920 --> 02:38:44,720
but this was from guidance from HCD of

3686
02:38:44,720 --> 02:38:47,040
March 2026.

3687
02:38:47,040 --> 02:38:49,040
Um

3688
02:38:49,040 --> 02:38:51,439
in terms of

3689
02:38:51,439 --> 02:38:54,080
a local like can open space or

3690
02:38:54,080 --> 02:38:56,080
landscaping requirements be used to

3691
02:38:56,080 --> 02:39:00,960
limit the size. So landscaping cannot it

3692
02:39:00,960 --> 02:39:04,000
according right cannot be

3693
02:39:04,000 --> 02:39:05,680
a limiting factor.

3694
02:39:05,680 --> 02:39:06,720
>> That is correct.

3695
02:39:06,720 --> 02:39:11,120
>> Right. Um, I would also note that we're

3696
02:39:11,120 --> 02:39:14,560
moving into zone zero regulation and so

3697
02:39:14,560 --> 02:39:17,280
and zone zero is not included anywhere

3698
02:39:17,280 --> 02:39:20,160
in this discussion.

3699
02:39:20,160 --> 02:39:23,680
Um, and so again, this is kind of that

3700
02:39:23,680 --> 02:39:26,000
discussion we had earlier where zone

3701
02:39:26,000 --> 02:39:27,600
zero is a building and fire code

3702
02:39:27,600 --> 02:39:30,640
requirement. So that is still applicable

3703
02:39:30,640 --> 02:39:33,280
and applies, but we cannot have it in

3704
02:39:33,280 --> 02:39:35,040
our zoning ordinance.

3705
02:39:35,040 --> 02:39:37,359
>> Right. Okay.

3706
02:39:37,359 --> 02:39:42,309
Um,

3707
02:39:42,319 --> 02:39:44,240
it's okay.

3708
02:39:44,240 --> 02:39:47,040
And

3709
02:39:47,040 --> 02:39:49,600
okay, let me just make sure. I think

3710
02:39:49,600 --> 02:39:52,479
those are all my questions, but um, let

3711
02:39:52,479 --> 02:40:04,389
me just double check.

3712
02:40:04,399 --> 02:40:06,560
» Yep. Okay. Thank you. That's all my

3713
02:40:06,560 --> 02:40:07,040
questions.

3714
02:40:07,040 --> 02:40:09,280
>> Thank you, Helen. Mary,

3715
02:40:09,280 --> 02:40:11,760
>> uh, oh, I think my question has probably

3716
02:40:11,760 --> 02:40:13,280
already been answered, but I'm going to

3717
02:40:13,280 --> 02:40:15,439
ask it again anyway because I don't

3718
02:40:15,439 --> 02:40:17,840
completely understand. Uh, there's a

3719
02:40:17,840 --> 02:40:21,200
policy choice about having this one

3720
02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:23,439
having a parking place on some of these

3721
02:40:23,439 --> 02:40:26,080
and you decided not to do it as a as a

3722
02:40:26,080 --> 02:40:29,680
policy. Uh, I'm having a very hard time

3723
02:40:29,680 --> 02:40:31,439
understanding.

3724
02:40:31,439 --> 02:40:33,680
We're trying to get cars off of the road

3725
02:40:33,680 --> 02:40:36,720
right into onto lots. Uh it doesn't

3726
02:40:36,720 --> 02:40:38,720
matter whether it's on dirt or or on

3727
02:40:38,720 --> 02:40:40,800
grass or whatever, but it's better that

3728
02:40:40,800 --> 02:40:43,680
it be out of the street so people can

3729
02:40:43,680 --> 02:40:47,200
exit and evacuate. What

3730
02:40:47,200 --> 02:40:53,840
I is the net going to be there less less uh cars in the street or is it I

3731
02:40:53,840 --> 02:40:56,479
mean is this because you think it's some

3732
02:40:56,479 --> 02:40:58,319
kind of reverse thinking we're having to

3733
02:40:58,319 --> 02:41:02,960
do that we can possibly avoid an SP9

3734
02:41:02,960 --> 02:41:05,439
because we've made it more attractive to

3735
02:41:05,439 --> 02:41:08,640
people to do this. I I'm I'm really lost

3736
02:41:08,640 --> 02:41:13,280
in the morass of contradicting uh

3737
02:41:13,280 --> 02:41:15,680
approaches to simple problems.

3738
02:41:15,680 --> 02:41:19,520
>> So for the parking in specifically there

3739
02:41:19,520 --> 02:41:22,720
are then in many cases for the ADUs that

3740
02:41:22,720 --> 02:41:25,120
we are seeing we cannot require parking.

3741
02:41:25,120 --> 02:41:26,800
>> Yeah. No, I got that. But there's one

3742
02:41:26,800 --> 02:41:28,479
case where we can't. We can't.

3743
02:41:28,479 --> 02:41:30,800
>> Okay. So we realize we have all very few

3744
02:41:30,800 --> 02:41:32,960
options. But why do we why would we

3745
02:41:32,960 --> 02:41:36,160
choose not to take an option that we

3746
02:41:36,160 --> 02:41:40,080
have? It was for simplicity sake really

3747
02:41:40,080 --> 02:41:42,080
is just it simplifies the number of

3748
02:41:42,080 --> 02:41:43,359
standards that we do have

3749
02:41:43,359 --> 02:41:46,560
>> and and it seems like that is the is it

3750
02:41:46,560 --> 02:41:49,200
not true that that is the most likely

3751
02:41:49,200 --> 02:41:52,319
situation where they would say oh well

3752
02:41:52,319 --> 02:41:53,760
it's required to have a parking place

3753
02:41:53,760 --> 02:41:56,640
we'll have a parking place I mean it's

3754
02:41:56,640 --> 02:41:58,720
not it's not like this is going to be a

3755
02:41:58,720 --> 02:42:01,200
handy a person who absolutely can't live

3756
02:42:01,200 --> 02:42:02,479
without it

3757
02:42:02,479 --> 02:42:05,359
>> and and this is where it kind of

3758
02:42:05,359 --> 02:42:07,520
conversation where and also not

3759
02:42:07,520 --> 02:42:09,840
requiring the parking. If somebody

3760
02:42:09,840 --> 02:42:11,920
proposes the parking, we can still go

3761
02:42:11,920 --> 02:42:14,240
through our process. There's a great

3762
02:42:14,240 --> 02:42:16,479
example of an ADU. They're on a very

3763
02:42:16,479 --> 02:42:17,920
large lot. They're putting their ADU

3764
02:42:17,920 --> 02:42:19,920
kind of all the way in the back corner.

3765
02:42:19,920 --> 02:42:22,479
They want to do a separate driveway, but

3766
02:42:22,479 --> 02:42:25,600
it's up a steep hill. If we say that ADU

3767
02:42:25,600 --> 02:42:28,240
requires parking, the grading on that

3768
02:42:28,240 --> 02:42:31,280
hill will have to be ministerial, even

3769
02:42:31,280 --> 02:42:32,640
though it would normally trigger

3770
02:42:32,640 --> 02:42:35,920
planning commission. So, we're that. So,

3771
02:42:35,920 --> 02:42:37,840
that's kind of that way. The other way

3772
02:42:37,840 --> 02:42:41,760
is a lot of our sites that um are having

3773
02:42:41,760 --> 02:42:43,280
these ADUs where they do trigger

3774
02:42:43,280 --> 02:42:46,800
parking, they actually tend to have a

3775
02:42:46,800 --> 02:42:48,560
large enough like roundabout area that

3776
02:42:48,560 --> 02:42:50,399
they're, you know, on their law or near

3777
02:42:50,399 --> 02:42:52,240
their garage that they're just showing

3778
02:42:52,240 --> 02:42:54,399
here's where my parking is going to go.

3779
02:42:54,399 --> 02:42:57,200
So, often there's already existing space

3780
02:42:57,200 --> 02:43:00,240
on site. I I I think there's going to be

3781
02:43:00,240 --> 02:43:02,640
a lot less situations where we do not

3782
02:43:02,640 --> 02:43:05,920
have space on site that is already

3783
02:43:05,920 --> 02:43:08,640
usable as a parking space because we do

3784
02:43:08,640 --> 02:43:11,200
often require guest parking spaces and

3785
02:43:11,200 --> 02:43:13,280
so those have been kind of utilized for

3786
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:15,359
that reason. However, again, it is a

3787
02:43:15,359 --> 02:43:18,160
policy discussion and if the council

3788
02:43:18,160 --> 02:43:19,680
does feel like we should add that back

3789
02:43:19,680 --> 02:43:21,680
in, staff is more than happy to add it

3790
02:43:21,680 --> 02:43:26,070
back in.

3791
02:43:26,080 --> 02:43:28,479
And is that something we can do tonight?

3792
02:43:28,479 --> 02:43:30,800
>> Yes, I I can quickly draft the wording

3793
02:43:30,800 --> 02:43:32,800
right now just to align with state law

3794
02:43:32,800 --> 02:43:35,280
and I can read it into the record and

3795
02:43:35,280 --> 02:43:36,560
you guys can make that as part of your

3796
02:43:36,560 --> 02:43:37,200
motion if

3797
02:43:37,200 --> 02:43:41,600
>> and and can we do the 850 ft too.

3798
02:43:41,600 --> 02:43:41,840
I

3799
02:43:41,840 --> 02:43:44,080
>> if that is a a desire of the majority of

3800
02:43:44,080 --> 02:43:44,880
the council. Yes.

3801
02:43:44,880 --> 02:43:45,520
>> Yeah.

3802
02:43:45,520 --> 02:43:49,120
>> Okay. And strategically. I mean I'm

3803
02:43:49,120 --> 02:43:51,040
willing to think strategically if I have

3804
02:43:51,040 --> 02:43:54,319
to, but I'd much rather think logically.

3805
02:43:54,319 --> 02:43:58,240
Uh so uh strategically is that a

3806
02:43:58,240 --> 02:44:00,000
mistake? I mean is there a mistake

3807
02:44:00,000 --> 02:44:01,359
there?

3808
02:44:01,359 --> 02:44:04,479
I I think, you know, we hear the concern

3809
02:44:04,479 --> 02:44:08,160
a lot with, you know, these ADUs, where

3810
02:44:08,160 --> 02:44:10,000
they're located, the impacts to our

3811
02:44:10,000 --> 02:44:12,240
natural environment, and that aren't

3812
02:44:12,240 --> 02:44:13,520
being reviewed by the planning

3813
02:44:13,520 --> 02:44:15,120
commission and city council or, you

3814
02:44:15,120 --> 02:44:17,040
know, um planning commission or

3815
02:44:17,040 --> 02:44:20,240
>> the the uh the

3816
02:44:20,240 --> 02:44:22,000
you're saying it would then go to the

3817
02:44:22,000 --> 02:44:22,960
ASC

3818
02:44:22,960 --> 02:44:25,200
>> because we're not requiring it. It's an

3819
02:44:25,200 --> 02:44:28,080
I if it's required, we have to process

3820
02:44:28,080 --> 02:44:31,040
it ministerally. If it's not required,

3821
02:44:31,040 --> 02:44:32,960
we can say your our normal.

3822
02:44:32,960 --> 02:44:41,030
>> So that's the strateg.

3823
02:44:41,040 --> 02:44:42,800
» Thank you, Mary. All right. Helen tells

3824
02:44:42,800 --> 02:44:44,640
me she had one more short question and

3825
02:44:44,640 --> 02:44:47,680
then I'll go to you Judith. Sorry.

3826
02:44:47,680 --> 02:44:50,800
I wanted to double check that the 1,200

3827
02:44:50,800 --> 02:44:54,240
square f feet would also apply for as I

3828
02:44:54,240 --> 02:44:57,520
recall previously the uh for parcels

3829
02:44:57,520 --> 02:45:00,240
over 3.5 acres.

3830
02:45:00,240 --> 02:45:02,640
>> So how we have it currently written it

3831
02:45:02,640 --> 02:45:04,960
applies regardless of parcel size

3832
02:45:04,960 --> 02:45:07,279
>> only 1,200 square f feet. Mhm.

3833
02:45:07,279 --> 02:45:09,920
>> We we do not have that kind of bonus

3834
02:45:09,920 --> 02:45:12,399
situation that the code currently has

3835
02:45:12,399 --> 02:45:15,040
because it tied it to additional

3836
02:45:15,040 --> 02:45:17,600
setbacks that again HCD has said we

3837
02:45:17,600 --> 02:45:19,120
cannot do.

3838
02:45:19,120 --> 02:45:21,680
>> Got it. Okay. Thank you.

3839
02:45:21,680 --> 02:45:24,000
>> Thank you Judith.

3840
02:45:24,000 --> 02:45:27,200
>> Okay. Um all right. I'm going to start

3841
02:45:27,200 --> 02:45:29,920
generally and then I'll get down into um

3842
02:45:29,920 --> 02:45:33,600
specific questions. Uh, first I want to

3843
02:45:33,600 --> 02:45:37,040
know what the legal authority of the HTD

3844
02:45:37,040 --> 02:45:41,510
handbook is.

3845
02:45:41,520 --> 02:45:45,120
I'll I'll take a stab at that. Um, so I

3846
02:45:45,120 --> 02:45:48,319
would put that in the context of HCD

3847
02:45:48,319 --> 02:45:50,720
statutory authority under that code

3848
02:45:50,720 --> 02:45:55,510
section Brandon referred to at 66313.5

3849
02:45:55,520 --> 02:45:58,000
um which reads the department meaning

3850
02:45:58,000 --> 02:46:01,200
HCD uh may review, adopt, amend or

3851
02:46:01,200 --> 02:46:03,359
repeal guidelines to implement uniform

3852
02:46:03,359 --> 02:46:06,399
standards or criteria that supplement or

3853
02:46:06,399 --> 02:46:08,720
clarify the terms, references and

3854
02:46:08,720 --> 02:46:12,080
standards set forth in this chapter.

3855
02:46:12,080 --> 02:46:15,120
meaning the the ADU chapter. So they are

3856
02:46:15,120 --> 02:46:19,040
acting pursuant to that authority.

3857
02:46:19,040 --> 02:46:22,160
>> Are they law?

3858
02:46:22,160 --> 02:46:24,720
No, they're not law. Um

3859
02:46:24,720 --> 02:46:26,479
they are guidelines. So I would say

3860
02:46:26,479 --> 02:46:29,840
that's different than law. Uh but you

3861
02:46:29,840 --> 02:46:33,120
know in if uh you know if a court were

3862
02:46:33,120 --> 02:46:34,640
to review them, they would certainly be

3863
02:46:34,640 --> 02:46:36,560
considered you know by the court in in

3864
02:46:36,560 --> 02:46:40,000
interpreting statuto language.

3865
02:46:40,000 --> 02:46:43,120
But they haven't they've gotten the

3866
02:46:43,120 --> 02:46:45,840
ability to fill in the gaps, so to

3867
02:46:45,840 --> 02:46:46,560
speak.

3868
02:46:46,560 --> 02:46:48,080
>> Yes, the legislature gave them the

3869
02:46:48,080 --> 02:46:48,560
ability,

3870
02:46:48,560 --> 02:46:50,479
>> but the legislature they might be

3871
02:46:50,479 --> 02:46:54,240
filling in gaps that the legislature

3872
02:46:54,240 --> 02:46:58,880
didn't intend like like it's it can be

3873
02:46:58,880 --> 02:47:01,200
arguable whether or not every single

3874
02:47:01,200 --> 02:47:02,720
guideline

3875
02:47:02,720 --> 02:47:06,640
is going to be filling the gap. And

3876
02:47:06,640 --> 02:47:08,640
>> yes, that is a guideline. That's right.

3877
02:47:08,640 --> 02:47:10,560
And you know, I suspect if you know, in

3878
02:47:10,560 --> 02:47:12,960
theory, if if HCD gets it wrong, the

3879
02:47:12,960 --> 02:47:14,319
legislature always has the opportunity

3880
02:47:14,319 --> 02:47:16,720
to step in every legislative session and

3881
02:47:16,720 --> 02:47:18,240
change the statute and make it clear

3882
02:47:18,240 --> 02:47:18,800
what

3883
02:47:18,800 --> 02:47:22,880
>> Okay. Um, and then the the other large

3884
02:47:22,880 --> 02:47:26,319
picture item is the risk of not having

3885
02:47:26,319 --> 02:47:28,880
an ordinance. You covered that. There's

3886
02:47:28,880 --> 02:47:30,880
a I got to be honest, there's a lot of

3887
02:47:30,880 --> 02:47:32,960
information that came in in the last 24

3888
02:47:32,960 --> 02:47:36,319
hours. So if I'm repeating myself,

3889
02:47:36,319 --> 02:47:40,080
that's why or or repeating what asking

3890
02:47:40,080 --> 02:47:42,800
you to repeat, that's why. Um the risk

3891
02:47:42,800 --> 02:47:45,760
of having no ordinance seems to be that

3892
02:47:45,760 --> 02:47:48,240
some of the stuff that can be given

3893
02:47:48,240 --> 02:47:51,680
effect in our current ordinance

3894
02:47:51,680 --> 02:47:54,640
would just not it would be completely up

3895
02:47:54,640 --> 02:47:57,200
to the state with gaps that where we

3896
02:47:57,200 --> 02:47:59,840
currently have a little plug or two that

3897
02:47:59,840 --> 02:48:03,279
we can apply. Is that essentially it?

3898
02:48:03,279 --> 02:48:05,600
Yes. And I can go into more detail if

3899
02:48:05,600 --> 02:48:06,479
you would like me to.

3900
02:48:06,479 --> 02:48:09,120
>> No. No, that's okay. The other benefit

3901
02:48:09,120 --> 02:48:11,920
of having the ADU ordinance sooner

3902
02:48:11,920 --> 02:48:14,080
rather than later

3903
02:48:14,080 --> 02:48:16,399
um is to enable staff to start doing

3904
02:48:16,399 --> 02:48:18,880
things that can help applicants

3905
02:48:18,880 --> 02:48:20,479
understand

3906
02:48:20,479 --> 02:48:22,000
like like all these materials you're

3907
02:48:22,000 --> 02:48:25,920
saying you could get going on. So to me

3908
02:48:25,920 --> 02:48:28,800
it does seem that time is of the essence

3909
02:48:28,800 --> 02:48:31,680
in a way, right? We want we have the HCD

3910
02:48:31,680 --> 02:48:35,520
letter that we'd prefer not to have them

3911
02:48:35,520 --> 02:48:37,359
looking at this and seeing a delay and

3912
02:48:37,359 --> 02:48:40,080
then we want the staff to actually be

3913
02:48:40,080 --> 02:48:43,680
enabling uh buildouts, right?

3914
02:48:43,680 --> 02:48:45,760
>> Yes. And currently staff is having to

3915
02:48:45,760 --> 02:48:47,439
default to state law because that is

3916
02:48:47,439 --> 02:48:48,319
what the

3917
02:48:48,319 --> 02:48:48,800
>> Yeah.

3918
02:48:48,800 --> 02:48:50,960
>> state law says, but being able to

3919
02:48:50,960 --> 02:48:52,479
actually enforce some of these objective

3920
02:48:52,479 --> 02:48:54,880
design standards when we can, you know,

3921
02:48:54,880 --> 02:48:56,720
is

3922
02:48:56,720 --> 02:48:57,520
good.

3923
02:48:57,520 --> 02:48:59,439
>> Okay. All right. Now, we're going to go

3924
02:48:59,439 --> 02:49:04,399
to my more line item questions. Um, this

3925
02:49:04,399 --> 02:49:06,240
isn't to challenge it. It's just to

3926
02:49:06,240 --> 02:49:08,479
remark to the public. If some if a

3927
02:49:08,479 --> 02:49:10,399
complete application is not approved or

3928
02:49:10,399 --> 02:49:13,120
denied within 60 days, the application

3929
02:49:13,120 --> 02:49:16,640
is deemed approved. How are we doing on

3930
02:49:16,640 --> 02:49:20,160
meeting that 60-day timeline? Is it like

3931
02:49:20,160 --> 02:49:22,560
something to be afraid of or are we

3932
02:49:22,560 --> 02:49:25,439
managing to get those things done? So,

3933
02:49:25,439 --> 02:49:27,520
ADUs

3934
02:49:27,520 --> 02:49:30,240
and so the the 60 days is up when it's

3935
02:49:30,240 --> 02:49:32,399
in review and we do work with applicants

3936
02:49:32,399 --> 02:49:34,800
if there are multiple reviews.

3937
02:49:34,800 --> 02:49:36,720
Technically, if they haven't still

3938
02:49:36,720 --> 02:49:38,160
address the issues, we're supposed to

3939
02:49:38,160 --> 02:49:40,479
deny them and make them reapply and pay

3940
02:49:40,479 --> 02:49:41,439
the fees.

3941
02:49:41,439 --> 02:49:43,279
>> We're not forcing applicants to do that.

3942
02:49:43,279 --> 02:49:44,880
We are saying, "Hey,

3943
02:49:44,880 --> 02:49:47,040
>> we will continue the review, but you are

3944
02:49:47,040 --> 02:49:48,800
still deficient." So, we are still

3945
02:49:48,800 --> 02:49:51,040
providing them the comments within the

3946
02:49:51,040 --> 02:49:53,359
time frames required. That's that's all

3947
02:49:53,359 --> 02:49:56,880
I'm really getting at is we're not do we

3948
02:49:56,880 --> 02:49:59,120
have a bigger process issue if we are

3949
02:49:59,120 --> 02:50:01,439
skimming skipping through the 60 days

3950
02:50:01,439 --> 02:50:03,120
and not able to process but it sounds

3951
02:50:03,120 --> 02:50:05,040
like you're you're engaged enough that's

3952
02:50:05,040 --> 02:50:13,030
not an issue. Thank you. All right. Um,

3953
02:50:13,040 --> 02:50:17,520
so to summarize the the 4 foot setback,

3954
02:50:17,520 --> 02:50:19,840
it is a policy decision that the council

3955
02:50:19,840 --> 02:50:25,750
can discuss today whether it's 850,000

3956
02:50:25,760 --> 02:50:28,240
where where we're able to do anything

3957
02:50:28,240 --> 02:50:31,520
about it. Um, or 1,200

3958
02:50:31,520 --> 02:50:34,800
>> in regards to the uh size. Yes. You said

3959
02:50:34,800 --> 02:50:36,399
setback. I just wanted to clarify for

3960
02:50:36,399 --> 02:50:37,920
the size. Yes. Yeah,

3961
02:50:37,920 --> 02:50:39,520
>> you have you have that discretion on the

3962
02:50:39,520 --> 02:50:42,880
1,200 850 for the one and

3963
02:50:42,880 --> 02:50:43,200
>> Yeah.

3964
02:50:43,200 --> 02:50:44,800
>> Okay. So, that can be a later

3965
02:50:44,800 --> 02:50:48,240
discussion. Um,

3966
02:50:48,240 --> 02:50:51,840
there's this odd language in 42 about 8

3967
02:50:51,840 --> 02:50:54,880
detached ADUs, etc. Does that actually

3968
02:50:54,880 --> 02:50:59,760
even apply in our town? Like the the

3969
02:50:59,760 --> 02:51:02,880
eight multifamily unit ones? Like I'm

3970
02:51:02,880 --> 02:51:05,120
just trying to gauge whether to focus on

3971
02:51:05,120 --> 02:51:07,840
that given I personally believe we ought

3972
02:51:07,840 --> 02:51:11,120
to be be getting something through our

3973
02:51:11,120 --> 02:51:13,359
system sooner rather than later. So is

3974
02:51:13,359 --> 02:51:16,399
that something that's likely to apply to

3975
02:51:16,399 --> 02:51:17,359
us?

3976
02:51:17,359 --> 02:51:19,520
>> So we do have some properties that do

3977
02:51:19,520 --> 02:51:21,279
have existing multif family.

3978
02:51:21,279 --> 02:51:21,600
>> Okay.

3979
02:51:21,600 --> 02:51:22,720
>> Yes, that would apply.

3980
02:51:22,720 --> 02:51:24,720
>> Okay. All right. Then I'll do my

3981
02:51:24,720 --> 02:51:27,520
homework.

3982
02:51:27,520 --> 02:51:28,640
>> Uh

3983
02:51:28,640 --> 02:51:31,600
>> period.

3984
02:51:31,600 --> 02:51:34,080
Sequoa.

3985
02:51:34,080 --> 02:51:36,560
>> Yep.

3986
02:51:36,560 --> 02:51:39,279
Okay.

3987
02:51:39,279 --> 02:51:42,880
Site improvements. That was helpful. Oh.

3988
02:51:42,880 --> 02:51:44,640
Um

3989
02:51:44,640 --> 02:51:47,840
page 44. Uh there's this you have the

3990
02:51:47,840 --> 02:51:49,200
site improvements. Then you have the

3991
02:51:49,200 --> 02:51:51,600
objective standards.

3992
02:51:51,600 --> 02:51:55,439
So ADU shall comply with the following

3993
02:51:55,439 --> 02:51:58,000
objective standards.

3994
02:51:58,000 --> 02:52:01,279
Oh, and then it's 323 units that it's

3995
02:52:01,279 --> 02:52:05,200
encouraged not. So, were these already

3996
02:52:05,200 --> 02:52:08,640
literally in our existing code like

3997
02:52:08,640 --> 02:52:10,880
before we couldn't enforce them? Okay.

3998
02:52:10,880 --> 02:52:12,160
So, you're not doing anything to

3999
02:52:12,160 --> 02:52:14,560
optimize that at this point? Yeah, I

4000
02:52:14,560 --> 02:52:16,399
think we did some minor clarification on

4001
02:52:16,399 --> 02:52:18,800
the landscaping, but yes, otherwise

4002
02:52:18,800 --> 02:52:21,120
because the landscaping just referenced

4003
02:52:21,120 --> 02:52:23,040
the landscaping guidelines and those are

4004
02:52:23,040 --> 02:52:25,840
too or the design guidelines which are

4005
02:52:25,840 --> 02:52:27,920
too subjective but we kind of specified

4006
02:52:27,920 --> 02:52:30,960
it to the approved plant list which is

4007
02:52:30,960 --> 02:52:32,720
objective. So that was the only

4008
02:52:32,720 --> 02:52:34,880
clarification otherwise everything else

4009
02:52:34,880 --> 02:52:37,359
is what is already being applied.

4010
02:52:37,359 --> 02:52:40,880
>> Okay. So I can't plant a rose bush

4011
02:52:40,880 --> 02:52:44,720
>> near my plant list. So, no.

4012
02:52:44,720 --> 02:52:46,880
As part of your ADU, no.

4013
02:52:46,880 --> 02:52:48,560
>> Okay.

4014
02:52:48,560 --> 02:52:50,880
All right.

4015
02:52:50,880 --> 02:52:53,120
>> I Okay.

4016
02:52:53,120 --> 02:52:55,760
The emergency shelter. Um, I don't know

4017
02:52:55,760 --> 02:52:57,600
if I don't think we're going to have a

4018
02:52:57,600 --> 02:52:59,600
separate discussion of that. The outdoor

4019
02:52:59,600 --> 02:53:01,520
smoking area, is that literally out of

4020
02:53:01,520 --> 02:53:05,990
state law?

4021
02:53:06,000 --> 02:53:08,880
» I believe it it it is. And I will look

4022
02:53:08,880 --> 02:53:09,359
to

4023
02:53:09,359 --> 02:53:14,550
>> I got to believe it is cuz I can't imag

4024
02:53:14,560 --> 02:53:15,920
Okay.

4025
02:53:15,920 --> 02:53:18,000
>> Yeah. Okay.

4026
02:53:18,000 --> 02:53:23,590
>> Uh charter.

4027
02:53:23,600 --> 02:53:26,319
Okay. I we're going to come back on the

4028
02:53:26,319 --> 02:53:29,200
indemnity, right?

4029
02:53:29,200 --> 02:53:31,840
So I'll stop there. Thank you.

4030
02:53:31,840 --> 02:53:33,680
>> Thank you, Judith.

4031
02:53:33,680 --> 02:53:35,600
Okay. I've just got some I think fairly

4032
02:53:35,600 --> 02:53:38,240
simple questions. Um did mostly

4033
02:53:38,240 --> 02:53:39,840
clarification just to make sure I got my

4034
02:53:39,840 --> 02:53:41,680
head around everything that's come at

4035
02:53:41,680 --> 02:53:44,640
us. So you said three ADUs. Can you just

4036
02:53:44,640 --> 02:53:45,840
explain that a little bit? Like how do

4037
02:53:45,840 --> 02:53:50,479
you get three three ADUs and the um AFMA

4038
02:53:50,479 --> 02:53:52,080
applies?

4039
02:53:52,080 --> 02:53:56,160
You can get up to 800 over, but that's

4040
02:53:56,160 --> 02:53:58,000
it, right? So how do you get three?

4041
02:53:58,000 --> 02:53:59,439
What's what's where do the three come

4042
02:53:59,439 --> 02:53:59,920
from?

4043
02:53:59,920 --> 02:54:02,560
>> So you would get under So you get two of

4044
02:54:02,560 --> 02:54:04,479
them from the units authorized under

4045
02:54:04,479 --> 02:54:08,399
66323. So that is a conversion ADU. So

4046
02:54:08,399 --> 02:54:10,319
converting existing part of your house,

4047
02:54:10,319 --> 02:54:13,200
converting an existing garage, an

4048
02:54:13,200 --> 02:54:15,520
existing pool house is a common one that

4049
02:54:15,520 --> 02:54:17,840
we see. You get to convert that

4050
02:54:17,840 --> 02:54:20,479
directly. That usually since it's

4051
02:54:20,479 --> 02:54:22,000
already figured into the AMFA, it

4052
02:54:22,000 --> 02:54:24,720
doesn't really impact as much. Then you

4053
02:54:24,720 --> 02:54:28,880
can do the detach 800 square foot ADU

4054
02:54:28,880 --> 02:54:31,680
per section 66323.

4055
02:54:31,680 --> 02:54:34,640
So those are your first two. Then uh

4056
02:54:34,640 --> 02:54:36,720
with the clarification that HCD has

4057
02:54:36,720 --> 02:54:39,920
provided, you do still get one unit

4058
02:54:39,920 --> 02:54:42,720
consistent with our local ordinance

4059
02:54:42,720 --> 02:54:45,680
which is 66314

4060
02:54:45,680 --> 02:54:48,479
and we can still apply AMFA except that

4061
02:54:48,479 --> 02:54:50,640
we can never restrict a unit less than

4062
02:54:50,640 --> 02:54:53,439
800 square ft. So that's where you can

4063
02:54:53,439 --> 02:54:56,319
get So if somebody does it correctly,

4064
02:54:56,319 --> 02:54:58,640
you would or incorrectly, however you

4065
02:54:58,640 --> 02:55:00,479
want to look at it, you get your two

4066
02:55:00,479 --> 02:55:02,560
state exempt, you're already way over

4067
02:55:02,560 --> 02:55:05,680
AMFA. You can still get your 663T1. It

4068
02:55:05,680 --> 02:55:07,920
just will be 800 square f feet.

4069
02:55:07,920 --> 02:55:10,720
>> Okay.

4070
02:55:10,720 --> 02:55:13,439
All right. Um,

4071
02:55:13,439 --> 02:55:15,439
so that's Yeah. So I think I get the

4072
02:55:15,439 --> 02:55:17,600
ADUs. It seems complicated that

4073
02:55:17,600 --> 02:55:21,439
somebody's doing all that, but but it's an interesting way all these things

4074
02:55:21,439 --> 02:55:25,680
fit together. Um, so on the 1,200 square

4075
02:55:25,680 --> 02:55:29,920
foot, as I understand, if we allow that,

4076
02:55:29,920 --> 02:55:33,200
then we get to apply objective standards

4077
02:55:33,200 --> 02:55:35,840
and we get to apply setbacks like a

4078
02:55:35,840 --> 02:55:38,800
front setback, not not side and rear.

4079
02:55:38,800 --> 02:55:41,120
Um, so and and setbacks between

4080
02:55:41,120 --> 02:55:42,479
buildings.

4081
02:55:42,479 --> 02:55:44,479
>> Yes, currently staff has not proposed a

4082
02:55:44,479 --> 02:55:46,160
setback between building and the current

4083
02:55:46,160 --> 02:55:48,479
ordinance, but that is something we can

4084
02:55:48,479 --> 02:55:50,399
if the council directs us to, we can

4085
02:55:50,399 --> 02:55:52,240
include.

4086
02:55:52,240 --> 02:55:53,760
Okay, because the Yeah, one of the

4087
02:55:53,760 --> 02:55:54,960
questions I was going to the next

4088
02:55:54,960 --> 02:55:56,399
question I was going to ask is a fire

4089
02:55:56,399 --> 02:55:59,680
safety question. Um I mean typically you

4090
02:55:59,680 --> 02:56:01,920
want to have 10 feet that may already be

4091
02:56:01,920 --> 02:56:05,120
in our fire regs. I don't know. Um

4092
02:56:05,120 --> 02:56:06,479
because as I understand from this

4093
02:56:06,479 --> 02:56:07,840
conversation, what you're saying is

4094
02:56:07,840 --> 02:56:10,160
they're zoning and then layered on top

4095
02:56:10,160 --> 02:56:11,840
of that is building and fire and if

4096
02:56:11,840 --> 02:56:14,960
they're more restrictive, they win.

4097
02:56:14,960 --> 02:56:16,880
>> That's correct. Because the fire and

4098
02:56:16,880 --> 02:56:19,200
building code are seen as being adopted

4099
02:56:19,200 --> 02:56:21,680
from the state building and fire code.

4100
02:56:21,680 --> 02:56:24,800
they over they they control more and can

4101
02:56:24,800 --> 02:56:26,960
be more specific on those specific

4102
02:56:26,960 --> 02:56:31,040
standards where zoning we cannot. Okay.

4103
02:56:31,040 --> 02:56:35,760
Um so if we talked about

4104
02:56:35,760 --> 02:56:38,080
and the design standards the objective

4105
02:56:38,080 --> 02:56:41,040
standards we have now you were listing

4106
02:56:41,040 --> 02:56:43,760
um you said LVR I wasn't quite sure the

4107
02:56:43,760 --> 02:56:44,640
acronym

4108
02:56:44,640 --> 02:56:49,269
>> uh light reflectivity val

4109
02:56:49,279 --> 02:56:50,720
you know I know what it is I just didn't

4110
02:56:50,720 --> 02:56:55,600
know what the acronym was but thank you thank you everybody so um

4111
02:56:55,600 --> 02:56:56,800
>> I have the same problem

4112
02:56:56,800 --> 02:57:00,000
>> do those only apply if we have an

4113
02:57:00,000 --> 02:57:00,960
ordinance

4114
02:57:00,960 --> 02:57:01,439
Yes.

4115
02:57:01,439 --> 02:57:03,520
>> Okay. So, if we if we just defaulted to

4116
02:57:03,520 --> 02:57:05,279
nothing, these wouldn't apply.

4117
02:57:05,279 --> 02:57:06,160
>> That would be correct.

4118
02:57:06,160 --> 02:57:08,960
>> Okay. Um, and if we defaulted to

4119
02:57:08,960 --> 02:57:11,359
nothing, would the AFMA apply?

4120
02:57:11,359 --> 02:57:14,960
>> So, we are clarifying on the AMFA.

4121
02:57:14,960 --> 02:57:18,080
I think there could be an argument.

4122
02:57:18,080 --> 02:57:20,000
Well, actually, no. If we default to

4123
02:57:20,000 --> 02:57:23,200
that, no, we would not. um per HCD's

4124
02:57:23,200 --> 02:57:25,600
guidance, 1,200 square f feet is the

4125
02:57:25,600 --> 02:57:28,720
what we would have to allow as a default

4126
02:57:28,720 --> 02:57:31,279
for if we don't have an ordinance.

4127
02:57:31,279 --> 02:57:31,680
>> Okay.

4128
02:57:31,680 --> 02:57:33,200
>> So, we would not be able to restrict it

4129
02:57:33,200 --> 02:57:37,120
to the 800. Um but I'm trying to think

4130
02:57:37,120 --> 02:57:38,560
if there's any other clear guidance on

4131
02:57:38,560 --> 02:57:40,160
that, but to my understanding, that's

4132
02:57:40,160 --> 02:57:44,319
the default is the 1,200. AMFA would not

4133
02:57:44,319 --> 02:57:45,600
apply in that case.

4134
02:57:45,600 --> 02:57:46,880
>> Okay? because I'm what I'm really trying

4135
02:57:46,880 --> 02:57:50,160
to get at is the advantages of having an

4136
02:57:50,160 --> 02:57:52,880
ordinance versus just defaulting to the

4137
02:57:52,880 --> 02:57:54,399
state. So, that's really where I was

4138
02:57:54,399 --> 02:57:56,399
trying to go with that. Um, and I know

4139
02:57:56,399 --> 02:57:58,720
the direction we gave you was to just

4140
02:57:58,720 --> 02:58:01,600
update our ordinance to state standards.

4141
02:58:01,600 --> 02:58:03,040
So, I appreciate you've done that and

4142
02:58:03,040 --> 02:58:05,040
I'm trying to understand what in

4143
02:58:05,040 --> 02:58:06,800
addition we're getting out of that. So,

4144
02:58:06,800 --> 02:58:09,040
um, so I I think that's helpful. Um, so

4145
02:58:09,040 --> 02:58:11,600
let me stop with questions there. Um,

4146
02:58:11,600 --> 02:58:15,760
then we've got the two more parts. um

4147
02:58:15,760 --> 02:58:18,319
that we need to cover and then I think I

4148
02:58:18,319 --> 02:58:20,160
can go to public comment. I did want to

4149
02:58:20,160 --> 02:58:22,160
ask the council like are you okay if we

4150
02:58:22,160 --> 02:58:24,080
go through the two more parts, take

4151
02:58:24,080 --> 02:58:25,680
public comment and then maybe take a

4152
02:58:25,680 --> 02:58:26,399
break.

4153
02:58:26,399 --> 02:58:28,960
>> What are the two more indemnity and what

4154
02:58:28,960 --> 02:58:32,160
>> the indemnity and the um emergency

4155
02:58:32,160 --> 02:58:33,600
shelters.

4156
02:58:33,600 --> 02:58:34,160
>> Okay,

4157
02:58:34,160 --> 02:58:35,680
>> those those are the two two pieces we

4158
02:58:35,680 --> 02:58:37,040
haven't discussed. I mean you you

4159
02:58:37,040 --> 02:58:38,800
actually jumped into

4160
02:58:38,800 --> 02:58:40,080
>> but I think Rebecca still said she

4161
02:58:40,080 --> 02:58:41,600
wanted and I asked her to wait. So, I

4162
02:58:41,600 --> 02:58:43,680
just want to make sure if anybody has

4163
02:58:43,680 --> 02:58:45,359
comments on those two that we or

4164
02:58:45,359 --> 02:58:46,880
questions on those two we

4165
02:58:46,880 --> 02:58:47,359
>> Yeah.

4166
02:58:47,359 --> 02:58:50,399
So, um so with that, let me go to

4167
02:58:50,399 --> 02:58:52,319
those two. So, Rebecca, you had

4168
02:58:52,319 --> 02:58:54,960
something that you wanted to

4169
02:58:54,960 --> 02:58:55,760
>> Yeah, please.

4170
02:58:55,760 --> 02:58:58,560
>> Okay. Well, quickly on the um emergency

4171
02:58:58,560 --> 02:59:00,640
shelter, I had the same concern that

4172
02:59:00,640 --> 02:59:02,560
Judith had about the outdoor smoking

4173
02:59:02,560 --> 02:59:04,640
area. It says the outdoor smoking area

4174
02:59:04,640 --> 02:59:07,120
may be screened by vegetation.

4175
02:59:07,120 --> 02:59:10,880
Um, I had put in a little note about it

4176
02:59:10,880 --> 02:59:14,160
complying with fire code. Um, I know I I

4177
02:59:14,160 --> 02:59:15,600
I'm understanding now that that's more

4178
02:59:15,600 --> 02:59:18,479
of a building thing. Um, so we would be

4179
02:59:18,479 --> 02:59:20,880
able to then

4180
02:59:20,880 --> 02:59:24,560
>> um through the building process code

4181
02:59:24,560 --> 02:59:26,800
have, you know, make sure that we're not

4182
02:59:26,800 --> 02:59:29,760
somehow creating a fire hazard.

4183
02:59:29,760 --> 02:59:31,520
>> Yes, that is mine and I'll default to

4184
02:59:31,520 --> 02:59:32,880
Katherine because Katherine helped write

4185
02:59:32,880 --> 02:59:35,920
that that update. So I'll let Katherine

4186
02:59:35,920 --> 02:59:36,720
chime in.

4187
02:59:36,720 --> 02:59:38,800
>> But yes, that that is the same concept

4188
02:59:38,800 --> 02:59:40,960
that would apply that code would

4189
02:59:40,960 --> 02:59:43,600
prevail. Okay. And should I move on to

4190
02:59:43,600 --> 02:59:44,479
indemnification?

4191
02:59:44,479 --> 02:59:46,560
>> Yeah, please cover both of those.

4192
02:59:46,560 --> 02:59:50,560
>> So for the indemnification, um

4193
02:59:50,560 --> 02:59:53,200
it I I kind of want to understand my

4194
02:59:53,200 --> 02:59:55,200
role as a c and the role of the council

4195
02:59:55,200 --> 02:59:58,000
members in terms of who are we supposed

4196
02:59:58,000 --> 03:00:01,200
to be protecting the most? I mean is it

4197
03:00:01,200 --> 03:00:03,200
just the town or do we have any

4198
03:00:03,200 --> 03:00:05,520
responsibility towards protecting our

4199
03:00:05,520 --> 03:00:09,840
residents um in this situation? So when

4200
03:00:09,840 --> 03:00:11,520
we ask for an indemnification for an

4201
03:00:11,520 --> 03:00:14,800
applicant that comes for a project

4202
03:00:14,800 --> 03:00:17,840
um well I would say let's see we are u

4203
03:00:17,840 --> 03:00:19,760
obviously being mindful of residents um

4204
03:00:19,760 --> 03:00:21,040
but while at the same time being

4205
03:00:21,040 --> 03:00:23,120
protected of the town um the town is

4206
03:00:23,120 --> 03:00:24,800
currently requiring identification of

4207
03:00:24,800 --> 03:00:27,120
applicants uh so this is essentially

4208
03:00:27,120 --> 03:00:30,240
codifying existing practice and I think

4209
03:00:30,240 --> 03:00:32,240
the as um Brandon mentioned the main

4210
03:00:32,240 --> 03:00:34,319
reason this caught um our attention and

4211
03:00:34,319 --> 03:00:37,279
my attention was that during the um

4212
03:00:37,279 --> 03:00:38,640
negotiation of the conditions of

4213
03:00:38,640 --> 03:00:40,479
approval for the Stanford project. Um

4214
03:00:40,479 --> 03:00:41,920
Standard pointed out that we had no

4215
03:00:41,920 --> 03:00:44,479
statutory authority to require the

4216
03:00:44,479 --> 03:00:45,680
indentification.

4217
03:00:45,680 --> 03:00:46,720
>> We do or we didn't.

4218
03:00:46,720 --> 03:00:48,479
>> We did not at the time. We still don't.

4219
03:00:48,479 --> 03:00:50,240
Um so that's the purpose of of adding

4220
03:00:50,240 --> 03:00:52,319
this to our code. They did end up

4221
03:00:52,319 --> 03:00:55,120
indemnifying the town. Um that is part

4222
03:00:55,120 --> 03:00:56,720
of the condition of approval. Uh but

4223
03:00:56,720 --> 03:00:59,120
this is essentially intended to uh

4224
03:00:59,120 --> 03:01:02,800
codify existing practice and we do all

4225
03:01:02,800 --> 03:01:04,960
of these things that are in this uh

4226
03:01:04,960 --> 03:01:07,439
proposal. We're we're asking for we're

4227
03:01:07,439 --> 03:01:09,600
currently asking applicants to do

4228
03:01:09,600 --> 03:01:12,800
reimbursement of public records acts. Uh

4229
03:01:12,800 --> 03:01:14,319
so that is actually new. Um thank you

4230
03:01:14,319 --> 03:01:16,000
for pointing that out. Uh we do not

4231
03:01:16,000 --> 03:01:18,560
currently do that. Um but this is sort

4232
03:01:18,560 --> 03:01:21,520
of with the with the mindset of uh

4233
03:01:21,520 --> 03:01:23,920
saving costs for the town and a lot of

4234
03:01:23,920 --> 03:01:26,399
times that these projects do actually

4235
03:01:26,399 --> 03:01:30,319
result in um expensive uh public records

4236
03:01:30,319 --> 03:01:33,840
act requests brought by um neighbors or

4237
03:01:33,840 --> 03:01:36,000
other interested parties. uh that are

4238
03:01:36,000 --> 03:01:39,760
solely about um and that

4239
03:01:39,760 --> 03:01:43,200
>> are we not allowed in by law to charge

4240
03:01:43,200 --> 03:01:46,240
for P requests in general just general P

4241
03:01:46,240 --> 03:01:46,800
requests?

4242
03:01:46,800 --> 03:01:48,479
>> No, we are not allowed to charge for

4243
03:01:48,479 --> 03:01:52,960
that because I'm just a little Yeah, I

4244
03:01:52,960 --> 03:01:58,960
it's very open-ended. So, you know, say in a situation that um there's some

4245
03:01:58,960 --> 03:02:00,800
huge controversy and we make the the

4246
03:02:00,800 --> 03:02:02,240
front pages of the Wall Street Journal

4247
03:02:02,240 --> 03:02:04,560
again and all of a sudden, you know, the

4248
03:02:04,560 --> 03:02:07,680
75 uh reporters decide that they're

4249
03:02:07,680 --> 03:02:09,439
going to do a P request to get

4250
03:02:09,439 --> 03:02:11,600
information about whatever this

4251
03:02:11,600 --> 03:02:13,920
controversial project is. So, then we're

4252
03:02:13,920 --> 03:02:16,240
saying that that applicant of the

4253
03:02:16,240 --> 03:02:18,399
controversial project has to pay for all

4254
03:02:18,399 --> 03:02:22,160
those PR requests. So, I it just I mean

4255
03:02:22,160 --> 03:02:24,160
it's very open-ended. I mean, it could

4256
03:02:24,160 --> 03:02:26,800
go on for years, right? And somebody

4257
03:02:26,800 --> 03:02:28,640
would get a bill 20 years from now

4258
03:02:28,640 --> 03:02:31,279
because I mean there's no guard rail,

4259
03:02:31,279 --> 03:02:32,479
you know, what are the guardrails on

4260
03:02:32,479 --> 03:02:34,399
this?

4261
03:02:34,399 --> 03:02:37,920
>> Yeah. I mean, again, this is, um,

4262
03:02:37,920 --> 03:02:40,640
this is based on another jurisdictions,

4263
03:02:40,640 --> 03:02:42,800
other jurisdictions language. And so,

4264
03:02:42,800 --> 03:02:44,560
um, I have not heard of that situation

4265
03:02:44,560 --> 03:02:45,760
coming up, but I'm mindful of what you

4266
03:02:45,760 --> 03:02:47,359
say. And, you know, one option would be

4267
03:02:47,359 --> 03:02:49,840
if you want to provide some guide rails,

4268
03:02:49,840 --> 03:02:53,120
you could change the shall to May. um

4269
03:02:53,120 --> 03:02:55,279
may reimburse the town or maybe may be

4270
03:02:55,279 --> 03:02:56,560
required to reimburse the town or you

4271
03:02:56,560 --> 03:02:58,640
could strike it all together if that is

4272
03:02:58,640 --> 03:03:01,359
the the council's preference um

4273
03:03:01,359 --> 03:03:04,720
regarding the P reimbursement

4274
03:03:04,720 --> 03:03:08,479
and then um so what what happens in a

4275
03:03:08,479 --> 03:03:10,800
situation where it's the town's

4276
03:03:10,800 --> 03:03:12,399
negligence

4277
03:03:12,399 --> 03:03:16,000
for for in in something in in how they

4278
03:03:16,000 --> 03:03:18,000
approved a planning or one of our

4279
03:03:18,000 --> 03:03:20,960
contractors screwed up or you know it it

4280
03:03:20,960 --> 03:03:22,800
just seems

4281
03:03:22,800 --> 03:03:24,479
we're forcing the applicant to take on

4282
03:03:24,479 --> 03:03:27,359
that um responsibility.

4283
03:03:27,359 --> 03:03:28,800
So, this did come up at the planning

4284
03:03:28,800 --> 03:03:31,520
commission. There was a um a discussion

4285
03:03:31,520 --> 03:03:33,439
amongst two of the commissioners who had

4286
03:03:33,439 --> 03:03:35,520
two different views on this on this

4287
03:03:35,520 --> 03:03:39,760
question. Um ultimately the um the

4288
03:03:39,760 --> 03:03:42,319
commission uh decided not to carve out

4289
03:03:42,319 --> 03:03:45,680
an exception for uh gross negligence or

4290
03:03:45,680 --> 03:03:49,040
willful misconduct by the by the town.

4291
03:03:49,040 --> 03:03:51,439
um which is consistent with other

4292
03:03:51,439 --> 03:03:53,439
indemnification provisions throughout

4293
03:03:53,439 --> 03:03:54,880
the municipal code. This isn't the only

4294
03:03:54,880 --> 03:03:57,120
place where this would arise. Um there

4295
03:03:57,120 --> 03:03:59,600
are some specific um indeidentification

4296
03:03:59,600 --> 03:04:01,040
provisions that are not generally

4297
03:04:01,040 --> 03:04:03,439
applicable like this one would be. Uh

4298
03:04:03,439 --> 03:04:05,760
but the standard approach throughout the

4299
03:04:05,760 --> 03:04:10,319
MUN code is tracks this language um and

4300
03:04:10,319 --> 03:04:12,160
does not carve out an express exception

4301
03:04:12,160 --> 03:04:13,840
for gross negligence or willful

4302
03:04:13,840 --> 03:04:15,760
misconduct by the town. Now, as a

4303
03:04:15,760 --> 03:04:20,399
practical matter, if there was um and

4304
03:04:20,399 --> 03:04:21,520
not saying there ever would be, but

4305
03:04:21,520 --> 03:04:23,200
gross negligence disable misconduct by

4306
03:04:23,200 --> 03:04:25,279
the town, um there would certainly be

4307
03:04:25,279 --> 03:04:26,560
the applicant would just refuse to

4308
03:04:26,560 --> 03:04:28,160
indemnify and that would just be another

4309
03:04:28,160 --> 03:04:30,800
part of the litigation. Uh I imagine,

4310
03:04:30,800 --> 03:04:32,160
>> but when does the indemnification

4311
03:04:32,160 --> 03:04:37,760
happen? At the end of the project, you sign something or um it essentially

4312
03:04:37,760 --> 03:04:38,880
happens during the conditions of

4313
03:04:38,880 --> 03:04:42,080
approval. Um for most projects, the

4314
03:04:42,080 --> 03:04:43,439
planners might have additional

4315
03:04:43,439 --> 03:04:45,920
information on that. Um but then you

4316
03:04:45,920 --> 03:04:47,439
know most of the times there these

4317
03:04:47,439 --> 03:04:49,680
projects do not result in litigation.

4318
03:04:49,680 --> 03:04:52,640
But if for example this the the Stanford

4319
03:04:52,640 --> 03:04:54,399
project after it was approved the the

4320
03:04:54,399 --> 03:04:57,359
town received um a lawsuit regarding you

4321
03:04:57,359 --> 03:04:59,840
know California you know SQA and the ER

4322
03:04:59,840 --> 03:05:02,640
was not compliant etc. Um at that point

4323
03:05:02,640 --> 03:05:05,279
Stanford would be required to indemnify

4324
03:05:05,279 --> 03:05:07,279
um the town for any litigation costs in

4325
03:05:07,279 --> 03:05:09,760
defending that SQA litigation. That's

4326
03:05:09,760 --> 03:05:10,960
when this comes up kind of.

4327
03:05:10,960 --> 03:05:13,120
>> And then I was confused about why we

4328
03:05:13,120 --> 03:05:15,040
would be requiring the applicant to pay

4329
03:05:15,040 --> 03:05:18,399
for the defense with the council of the

4330
03:05:18,399 --> 03:05:20,160
town's choosing. Maybe you could just

4331
03:05:20,160 --> 03:05:23,040
kind of explain the process here, you

4332
03:05:23,040 --> 03:05:27,120
know. Um I I don't I I kind of gotten I

4333
03:05:27,120 --> 03:05:32,240
don't quite follow how defense is cho in what situation a

4334
03:05:32,240 --> 03:05:34,720
defense is then chosen by the town. What

4335
03:05:34,720 --> 03:05:37,279
would be a scenario that this comes into

4336
03:05:37,279 --> 03:05:40,560
play? Uh so if there is litigation

4337
03:05:40,560 --> 03:05:43,120
challenging a project that the town

4338
03:05:43,120 --> 03:05:44,640
approves,

4339
03:05:44,640 --> 03:05:46,800
uh generally the the litigation would be

4340
03:05:46,800 --> 03:05:49,359
brought against both the town and the

4341
03:05:49,359 --> 03:05:51,680
applicant. Uh so the applicant would

4342
03:05:51,680 --> 03:05:53,600
have their own attorney and they'd be

4343
03:05:53,600 --> 03:05:56,240
defending the lawsuit. Um the that what

4344
03:05:56,240 --> 03:05:57,840
this language is saying is that the town

4345
03:05:57,840 --> 03:05:59,200
doesn't have to use the applicant's

4346
03:05:59,200 --> 03:06:00,560
attorney. They could hire their own

4347
03:06:00,560 --> 03:06:01,840
attorney to defend the town. So there

4348
03:06:01,840 --> 03:06:03,200
might be different nuance in terms of

4349
03:06:03,200 --> 03:06:05,200
the defense that the town would want to

4350
03:06:05,200 --> 03:06:07,600
have its own counsel. Um and so this

4351
03:06:07,600 --> 03:06:10,080
would provide that the town has the

4352
03:06:10,080 --> 03:06:12,240
authority um the right to choose their

4353
03:06:12,240 --> 03:06:13,760
own attorney.

4354
03:06:13,760 --> 03:06:15,120
>> Okay. Thank you.

4355
03:06:15,120 --> 03:06:16,560
>> Have a practical example.

4356
03:06:16,560 --> 03:06:17,600
>> Oh, thank you. Please

4357
03:06:17,600 --> 03:06:20,000
>> Westridge. There was a conflict with our

4358
03:06:20,000 --> 03:06:22,240
existing town attorney where we had to

4359
03:06:22,240 --> 03:06:24,800
bring in outside counsel to help us

4360
03:06:24,800 --> 03:06:26,960
through that process. So that would be

4361
03:06:26,960 --> 03:06:29,760
another case of that is there if there

4362
03:06:29,760 --> 03:06:31,600
is a conflict of interest, the town is

4363
03:06:31,600 --> 03:06:34,160
able to get its own attorney, its own

4364
03:06:34,160 --> 03:06:37,520
separate attorney to defend the

4365
03:06:37,520 --> 03:06:39,120
>> Thank you, Rebecca. Ellen, do you have

4366
03:06:39,120 --> 03:06:41,439
anything on these two? Great. Thank you,

4367
03:06:41,439 --> 03:06:42,240
Mary.

4368
03:06:42,240 --> 03:06:43,040
>> Nope.

4369
03:06:43,040 --> 03:06:44,720
>> Thank you, Judith.

4370
03:06:44,720 --> 03:06:47,279
>> Yeah. Um,

4371
03:06:47,279 --> 03:06:51,910
so if I read this right,

4372
03:06:51,920 --> 03:06:55,439
this could even be

4373
03:06:55,439 --> 03:06:58,319
a town employee

4374
03:06:58,319 --> 03:07:00,960
that brings a slip and fall suit

4375
03:07:00,960 --> 03:07:03,439
relating to a project. So it's not third

4376
03:07:03,439 --> 03:07:06,560
party indemnity. Is there intended to be

4377
03:07:06,560 --> 03:07:14,550
a limit to a third party suit?

4378
03:07:14,560 --> 03:07:16,080
Yes.

4379
03:07:16,080 --> 03:07:20,640
>> Uh this is intended for third party

4380
03:07:20,640 --> 03:07:22,800
suits against the town.

4381
03:07:22,800 --> 03:07:25,200
>> And is the language derived from

4382
03:07:25,200 --> 03:07:27,680
precedent we've already used exactly in

4383
03:07:27,680 --> 03:07:32,800
town or is it derived from several

4384
03:07:32,800 --> 03:07:35,600
>> several other jurisdictions um that have

4385
03:07:35,600 --> 03:07:38,640
similar type of indemnity provisions?

4386
03:07:38,640 --> 03:07:43,510
>> Yeah. And then um

4387
03:07:43,520 --> 03:07:46,640
so say the public records act is

4388
03:07:46,640 --> 03:07:50,240
alleging some inappropriate

4389
03:07:50,240 --> 03:07:52,240
process

4390
03:07:52,240 --> 03:07:56,640
in the course of handling the project on

4391
03:07:56,640 --> 03:08:00,960
the town's part. We're we're still going

4392
03:08:00,960 --> 03:08:03,840
to require them to

4393
03:08:03,840 --> 03:08:09,200
um reimburse for the P request on that.

4394
03:08:09,200 --> 03:08:15,279
Uh so the the P um

4395
03:08:15,279 --> 03:08:18,240
uh request does that results in cost

4396
03:08:18,240 --> 03:08:20,800
staff costs to collect documents um

4397
03:08:20,800 --> 03:08:26,160
sometimes outside uh document um

4398
03:08:26,160 --> 03:08:28,960
uh servers are are services are

4399
03:08:28,960 --> 03:08:32,640
required. Um the intent is to capture um

4400
03:08:32,640 --> 03:08:36,240
reimbursement for hard costs um and

4401
03:08:36,240 --> 03:08:39,279
staff costs related to P requests,

4402
03:08:39,279 --> 03:08:41,439
right? But but my point here is that the

4403
03:08:41,439 --> 03:08:43,520
public records act exists for

4404
03:08:43,520 --> 03:08:46,800
transparency as a public policy, right?

4405
03:08:46,800 --> 03:08:48,319
Like let's find out what actually

4406
03:08:48,319 --> 03:08:50,800
happened, what communications actually

4407
03:08:50,800 --> 03:08:55,200
happened. the the the balance to me is

4408
03:08:55,200 --> 03:08:57,279
public transparency and the right of the

4409
03:08:57,279 --> 03:09:01,200
public to call out into the public

4410
03:09:01,200 --> 03:09:04,080
sphere what's been going on in process

4411
03:09:04,080 --> 03:09:07,520
within the town. if we're the source of

4412
03:09:07,520 --> 03:09:11,279
a problem here, it it just seems

4413
03:09:11,279 --> 03:09:13,359
it could be punitive under some

4414
03:09:13,359 --> 03:09:15,600
circumstances if I'm thinking about it

4415
03:09:15,600 --> 03:09:18,640
right to, you know, maybe maybe the

4416
03:09:18,640 --> 03:09:22,319
person as a result of a P actually

4417
03:09:22,319 --> 03:09:24,479
was right. Something was bad with the

4418
03:09:24,479 --> 03:09:28,479
process. We're now saying that the

4419
03:09:28,479 --> 03:09:30,160
applicant,

4420
03:09:30,160 --> 03:09:32,720
regardless of who did what, has to

4421
03:09:32,720 --> 03:09:35,520
reimburse those hard costs. Um, so I'm

4422
03:09:35,520 --> 03:09:37,120
just trying to think about the the

4423
03:09:37,120 --> 03:09:40,319
balancing of the policies here. Um, one

4424
03:09:40,319 --> 03:09:42,080
policy is we're we're trying to save

4425
03:09:42,080 --> 03:09:45,200
money and PAS are expensive versus the

4426
03:09:45,200 --> 03:09:47,439
transparency. Is that kind of a way of

4427
03:09:47,439 --> 03:09:49,200
looking at it? Because it's hard to get

4428
03:09:49,200 --> 03:09:51,359
really nuanced with this.

4429
03:09:51,359 --> 03:09:52,960
>> Yeah, I think that is a good way to look

4430
03:09:52,960 --> 03:09:55,040
at it. Um, and I think those are those

4431
03:09:55,040 --> 03:09:56,479
are good points in terms of policy

4432
03:09:56,479 --> 03:09:57,920
considerations about whether to move

4433
03:09:57,920 --> 03:10:00,080
forward with that um part of this

4434
03:10:00,080 --> 03:10:02,000
ordinance. Um,

4435
03:10:02,000 --> 03:10:03,680
>> you know, the council might decide that

4436
03:10:03,680 --> 03:10:06,880
it wants to narrow it, um, to, uh, you

4437
03:10:06,880 --> 03:10:08,800
know, optional reimbursement. Um,

4438
03:10:08,800 --> 03:10:10,720
wouldn't require the town to seek

4439
03:10:10,720 --> 03:10:12,240
reimbursement, but that maybe they're in

4440
03:10:12,240 --> 03:10:14,160
certain situations. Um,

4441
03:10:14,160 --> 03:10:18,640
>> or, you know, like we discussed with the previous question, if this

4442
03:10:18,640 --> 03:10:20,000
isn't the direction the council wants to

4443
03:10:20,000 --> 03:10:21,760
go at this time, that also would be fine

4444
03:10:21,760 --> 03:10:23,680
and it could strike this portion of the

4445
03:10:23,680 --> 03:10:24,479
ordinance.

4446
03:10:24,479 --> 03:10:26,880
>> Okay, that that was my question. Thank

4447
03:10:26,880 --> 03:10:27,279
you.

4448
03:10:27,279 --> 03:10:29,359
>> Thank you, Judith. Um, I don't have any

4449
03:10:29,359 --> 03:10:31,439
questions on these, so I'm going to

4450
03:10:31,439 --> 03:10:34,160
close the council questioning. And is

4451
03:10:34,160 --> 03:10:36,000
everybody okay if I open it up to public

4452
03:10:36,000 --> 03:10:37,439
for questioning and then we take a break

4453
03:10:37,439 --> 03:10:38,240
after that?

4454
03:10:38,240 --> 03:10:40,720
>> Okay, great. Um, all right. So, I'd like

4455
03:10:40,720 --> 03:10:41,760
to open it up for

4456
03:10:41,760 --> 03:10:43,120
>> And this is a public hearing. So, you

4457
03:10:43,120 --> 03:10:44,240
are opening the public hearing.

4458
03:10:44,240 --> 03:10:45,680
>> Thank you. I'm I am now opening the

4459
03:10:45,680 --> 03:10:48,000
public hearing. Thank you. And and I can

4460
03:10:48,000 --> 03:10:50,160
we but we can start this and then we can

4461
03:10:50,160 --> 03:10:52,560
exit and use the bathrooms, etc.

4462
03:10:52,560 --> 03:10:53,920
>> Yeah, I'd recommend closing the public

4463
03:10:53,920 --> 03:10:56,000
hearing once you finish with the public

4464
03:10:56,000 --> 03:10:57,200
comments.

4465
03:10:57,200 --> 03:10:58,080
>> Thank you. Take a break.

4466
03:10:58,080 --> 03:10:59,760
>> Got I got the word. Okay. So, I'm now

4467
03:10:59,760 --> 03:11:01,920
opening the public hearing. Thank you.

4468
03:11:01,920 --> 03:11:05,120
Um, are there any public comments?

4469
03:11:05,120 --> 03:11:07,120
So, looking in the room, I see a hand.

4470
03:11:07,120 --> 03:11:08,960
Please come to the microphone. Welcome,

4471
03:11:08,960 --> 03:11:12,790
Judith.

4472
03:11:12,800 --> 03:11:14,960
» Thank you. Um, this is comments as well

4473
03:11:14,960 --> 03:11:16,479
as questions. Is that accurate?

4474
03:11:16,479 --> 03:11:18,080
>> Uh, it's comments.

4475
03:11:18,080 --> 03:11:18,720
>> It's comments.

4476
03:11:18,720 --> 03:11:19,840
>> It's not. There's no Yeah.

4477
03:11:19,840 --> 03:11:20,800
>> Very good.

4478
03:11:20,800 --> 03:11:22,240
>> Sorry. That's just the sort of the

4479
03:11:22,240 --> 03:11:25,120
limits the limits on our hours. Um,

4480
03:11:25,120 --> 03:11:26,960
virtually every application for a new

4481
03:11:26,960 --> 03:11:29,439
home or major remodel has had an ADU in

4482
03:11:29,439 --> 03:11:31,680
the last years and now we may be looking

4483
03:11:31,680 --> 03:11:34,720
at uh them all having two or three

4484
03:11:34,720 --> 03:11:37,120
ministerally approved. The town has the

4485
03:11:37,120 --> 03:11:38,640
right, obviously we've been talking all

4486
03:11:38,640 --> 03:11:42,319
night to to adopt objective criteria to

4487
03:11:42,319 --> 03:11:45,200
be applied equally to all applications.

4488
03:11:45,200 --> 03:11:46,960
Process of creating such standards was

4489
03:11:46,960 --> 03:11:49,359
started several years ago. Um some

4490
03:11:49,359 --> 03:11:51,760
committees uh submitted some proposals

4491
03:11:51,760 --> 03:11:54,240
that were sent to planning department

4492
03:11:54,240 --> 03:11:55,840
and then because of everything that went

4493
03:11:55,840 --> 03:11:58,800
on in town this all stalled and more or

4494
03:11:58,800 --> 03:12:02,000
less disappeared. Um

4495
03:12:02,000 --> 03:12:04,560
this draft version as we talked about

4496
03:12:04,560 --> 03:12:06,399
does not include some of the protective

4497
03:12:06,399 --> 03:12:08,160
restrictions that we could reasonably

4498
03:12:08,160 --> 03:12:11,359
place and ministerally apply. So I'm

4499
03:12:11,359 --> 03:12:13,600
very concerned that

4500
03:12:13,600 --> 03:12:16,560
um this is all being done tonight that a

4501
03:12:16,560 --> 03:12:18,479
first reading is being dispensed with

4502
03:12:18,479 --> 03:12:20,880
instead of instead of the normal usual

4503
03:12:20,880 --> 03:12:23,600
process which exists for the reason

4504
03:12:23,600 --> 03:12:26,240
exactly of a little more timely

4505
03:12:26,240 --> 03:12:27,920
consideration of some of the things that

4506
03:12:27,920 --> 03:12:29,920
have been brought up tonight. My

4507
03:12:29,920 --> 03:12:34,319
specific concerns have to do with

4508
03:12:34,319 --> 03:12:37,439
no surprise uh protecting the native

4509
03:12:37,439 --> 03:12:41,040
environment here. So trails are one of

4510
03:12:41,040 --> 03:12:43,359
the things that come up. It seems to me

4511
03:12:43,359 --> 03:12:45,520
that that senior planner said that we

4512
03:12:45,520 --> 03:12:48,560
could um put objective criteria about

4513
03:12:48,560 --> 03:12:51,760
the distance between the two houses. Is

4514
03:12:51,760 --> 03:12:53,920
there any reason we couldn't put an

4515
03:12:53,920 --> 03:12:56,319
objective universally applied

4516
03:12:56,319 --> 03:12:58,960
restriction that says it has to be a

4517
03:12:58,960 --> 03:13:02,080
certain distance from a trail that the

4518
03:13:02,080 --> 03:13:05,520
4-foot thing What if the 4ft thing and

4519
03:13:05,520 --> 03:13:07,840
the trail goes like this? Is the 4-foot

4520
03:13:07,840 --> 03:13:10,880
setback allowed to encroach on a trail?

4521
03:13:10,880 --> 03:13:12,880
And doesn't that seem like very

4522
03:13:12,880 --> 03:13:15,040
objective criteria that should be able

4523
03:13:15,040 --> 03:13:17,439
to be put to be put down? These are

4524
03:13:17,439 --> 03:13:21,200
existing easements. Uh does the 4 foot

4525
03:13:21,200 --> 03:13:24,240
um able to sort of violate the easements

4526
03:13:24,240 --> 03:13:27,359
that we have. Um so that's one of my

4527
03:13:27,359 --> 03:13:29,680
concerns that I think needs to be looked

4528
03:13:29,680 --> 03:13:31,920
at a little more detail. Um I think the

4529
03:13:31,920 --> 03:13:33,520
parking issue I don't have a specific

4530
03:13:33,520 --> 03:13:35,920
comment to makecept that obviously if

4531
03:13:35,920 --> 03:13:38,000
cars if you're writing something that

4532
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:39,760
encourages cars to be spilling out on

4533
03:13:39,760 --> 03:13:42,960
the street that's that's enormously

4534
03:13:42,960 --> 03:13:44,560
uh contradictory of what we're trying to

4535
03:13:44,560 --> 03:13:47,439
have the town feel like. Um the scenic

4536
03:13:47,439 --> 03:13:49,439
corridor issue is one that is not really

4537
03:13:49,439 --> 03:13:52,399
addressed. There are lots in town along

4538
03:13:52,399 --> 03:13:54,080
the scenic corridor where they have put

4539
03:13:54,080 --> 03:13:56,560
their address on the street that goes

4540
03:13:56,560 --> 03:13:59,439
off either Portolo or Alpine that makes

4541
03:13:59,439 --> 03:14:02,479
their frontage on the scenic corridor

4542
03:14:02,479 --> 03:14:04,720
their side yard. Are people going to be

4543
03:14:04,720 --> 03:14:08,160
able to put two or three ADUs 4 feet

4544
03:14:08,160 --> 03:14:10,720
from their property line on our scenic

4545
03:14:10,720 --> 03:14:13,840
corridor? Isn't there not something

4546
03:14:13,840 --> 03:14:15,439
that's an objective standard that

4547
03:14:15,439 --> 03:14:18,960
applies to any applicant that we could

4548
03:14:18,960 --> 03:14:20,160
include there?

4549
03:14:20,160 --> 03:14:21,600
>> I'm going to have to ask you to wrap it

4550
03:14:21,600 --> 03:14:22,000
up.

4551
03:14:22,000 --> 03:14:23,760
>> Okay. That that's my main thing. I have

4552
03:14:23,760 --> 03:14:25,680
grave concerns about adopting this

4553
03:14:25,680 --> 03:14:27,439
ordinance tonight. I think you need to

4554
03:14:27,439 --> 03:14:29,840
take the time to deserve at least a

4555
03:14:29,840 --> 03:14:31,680
second reading and and come up with some

4556
03:14:31,680 --> 03:14:33,279
language to address some of these really

4557
03:14:33,279 --> 03:14:35,279
important things.

4558
03:14:35,279 --> 03:14:36,800
The worst thing that happens is we go

4559
03:14:36,800 --> 03:14:37,920
back to doing what we've been doing for

4560
03:14:37,920 --> 03:14:40,239
the last year and a half, which is using

4561
03:14:40,239 --> 03:14:41,840
the state ordinances. We don't have

4562
03:14:41,840 --> 03:14:43,680
these nice little things we want to add,

4563
03:14:43,680 --> 03:14:45,520
but we also don't have these other

4564
03:14:45,520 --> 03:14:47,760
important ones. And that's maybe one or

4565
03:14:47,760 --> 03:14:50,080
two houses, one or two projects. So,

4566
03:14:50,080 --> 03:14:52,000
don't don't get steamrolled into going

4567
03:14:52,000 --> 03:14:54,319
fast fast because it's hard to fix it if

4568
03:14:54,319 --> 03:14:55,760
it's not right.

4569
03:14:55,760 --> 03:14:58,160
>> Thank you. Um I I did want to just make

4570
03:14:58,160 --> 03:15:00,239
one clarification. When we say we're

4571
03:15:00,239 --> 03:15:02,080
waving a first reading, that means

4572
03:15:02,080 --> 03:15:03,920
something very specific. It means we

4573
03:15:03,920 --> 03:15:08,319
didn't read that entire like 50 pages

4574
03:15:08,319 --> 03:15:10,479
into the record. It doesn't mean we

4575
03:15:10,479 --> 03:15:12,880
skip. This is basically the first. It

4576
03:15:12,880 --> 03:15:15,439
will come back to us after this. So

4577
03:15:15,439 --> 03:15:17,200
there's not a skipping of the first.

4578
03:15:17,200 --> 03:15:19,439
It's just reading as a very specific

4579
03:15:19,439 --> 03:15:22,000
literally Katherine would sit here and

4580
03:15:22,000 --> 03:15:24,720
read every word until we were done. And

4581
03:15:24,720 --> 03:15:29,510
we that's what we say we're waving it.

4582
03:15:29,520 --> 03:15:32,399
» It's not No, this is I mean this will

4583
03:15:32,399 --> 03:15:33,760
come back to us.

4584
03:15:33,760 --> 03:15:37,680
>> Yeah. that although Craig just to

4585
03:15:37,680 --> 03:15:39,760
support the question and ask for

4586
03:15:39,760 --> 03:15:42,399
clarification there was the request on

4587
03:15:42,399 --> 03:15:46,160
the slide said adopt this so I want to

4588
03:15:46,160 --> 03:15:47,520
>> fair enough but it but it is coming back

4589
03:15:47,520 --> 03:15:48,800
I mean just that's why I wanted to

4590
03:15:48,800 --> 03:15:51,359
clarify so it right it will come back to

4591
03:15:51,359 --> 03:15:53,200
us as and likely come back to us as a

4592
03:15:53,200 --> 03:15:54,880
consent agenda but it will come back to

4593
03:15:54,880 --> 03:15:55,200
us

4594
03:15:55,200 --> 03:15:56,720
>> it comes back for a second reading but

4595
03:15:56,720 --> 03:15:59,600
just to make sure I'm folks are clear um

4596
03:15:59,600 --> 03:16:01,200
the second reading is like you say a

4597
03:16:01,200 --> 03:16:02,960
consent item and so the substantive

4598
03:16:02,960 --> 03:16:04,080
discussion

4599
03:16:04,080 --> 03:16:06,000
um does typically take place, you know,

4600
03:16:06,000 --> 03:16:10,950
at the introduction, the first reading.

4601
03:16:10,960 --> 03:16:13,439
» Okay. Any other hands in the

4602
03:16:13,439 --> 03:16:15,840
schoolhouse? I don't see any. Any other

4603
03:16:15,840 --> 03:16:18,880
hands online?

4604
03:16:18,880 --> 03:16:22,560
Okay. I don't see any. All right. Oh,

4605
03:16:22,560 --> 03:16:25,760
thank you.

4606
03:16:25,760 --> 03:16:28,239
One day, I'm gonna be ahead of her, but

4607
03:16:28,239 --> 03:16:31,520
Okay. Hi, Christie. Go ahead, please.

4608
03:16:31,520 --> 03:16:33,120
>> Wow.

4609
03:16:33,120 --> 03:16:35,439
I'm surprised you that because I really

4610
03:16:35,439 --> 03:16:37,359
do have a right to talk.

4611
03:16:37,359 --> 03:16:38,880
>> Oh, for sure. No, no, it was just I was

4612
03:16:38,880 --> 03:16:40,319
about to close it. You got your hand up

4613
03:16:40,319 --> 03:16:41,840
just in time. So, thank you.

4614
03:16:41,840 --> 03:16:44,319
>> Okay. Um

4615
03:16:44,319 --> 03:16:46,399
All right. I believe this topic should

4616
03:16:46,399 --> 03:16:49,120
have been a steady session and a call

4617
03:16:49,120 --> 03:16:52,800
out to the whole community to let them

4618
03:16:52,800 --> 03:16:54,960
know this is really important to our

4619
03:16:54,960 --> 03:16:57,279
community. And if you only have 10

4620
03:16:57,279 --> 03:17:00,160
people here, 10 people out of 4,500

4621
03:17:00,160 --> 03:17:03,439
people know about it. So, I do think

4622
03:17:03,439 --> 03:17:05,680
that we should have we should take our

4623
03:17:05,680 --> 03:17:08,560
time and go slower with this important

4624
03:17:08,560 --> 03:17:10,160
document.

4625
03:17:10,160 --> 03:17:12,640
I think the add-ons in the future,

4626
03:17:12,640 --> 03:17:15,200
description, fees, definitions,

4627
03:17:15,200 --> 03:17:18,000
education should have been added to this

4628
03:17:18,000 --> 03:17:20,800
document so we can see it in its

4629
03:17:20,800 --> 03:17:23,840
entirety. So the town has the right to

4630
03:17:23,840 --> 03:17:26,399
make objective requirements po uh

4631
03:17:26,399 --> 03:17:28,880
parking height

4632
03:17:28,880 --> 03:17:33,840
um of the ADU setback um max size and

4633
03:17:33,840 --> 03:17:37,760
then I noticed is it true that the ASC

4634
03:17:37,760 --> 03:17:41,520
will be pulled out of the

4635
03:17:41,520 --> 03:17:44,640
um ability to make comments such as

4636
03:17:44,640 --> 03:17:47,359
light spill where the where the window

4637
03:17:47,359 --> 03:17:49,600
should be where the dot where it's

4638
03:17:49,600 --> 03:17:53,120
placed on the um

4639
03:17:53,120 --> 03:17:58,000
on the parcel. Um can you add 300 ft? We

4640
03:17:58,000 --> 03:18:00,880
want to notice our neighbors in this

4641
03:18:00,880 --> 03:18:03,120
town because we are polite and we want

4642
03:18:03,120 --> 03:18:04,720
to do that because we feel it's

4643
03:18:04,720 --> 03:18:07,040
important. Can you please answer that

4644
03:18:07,040 --> 03:18:10,160
tonight? Um

4645
03:18:10,160 --> 03:18:13,600
let's see. I understand that the ADU law

4646
03:18:13,600 --> 03:18:15,680
is ministerial, but I think that's

4647
03:18:15,680 --> 03:18:18,080
important to still inform and educate.

4648
03:18:18,080 --> 03:18:20,399
We live in the WOOI which is wildland

4649
03:18:20,399 --> 03:18:23,279
urban interface which is the fire chief

4650
03:18:23,279 --> 03:18:25,680
said he'll be burning you know canyons

4651
03:18:25,680 --> 03:18:28,000
and woodside and really trying to clear.

4652
03:18:28,000 --> 03:18:31,040
So if we live in the WOOI what what

4653
03:18:31,040 --> 03:18:33,600
should we be thinking more of? Is that

4654
03:18:33,600 --> 03:18:36,239
why houses were further apart in the 9

4655
03:18:36,239 --> 03:18:40,880
by9 um area that we live? Corner

4656
03:18:40,880 --> 03:18:43,120
parcels. I have heard nothing about

4657
03:18:43,120 --> 03:18:45,120
corner parcels and what are the

4658
03:18:45,120 --> 03:18:48,000
guidelines going to be? Please discuss

4659
03:18:48,000 --> 03:18:50,319
patios and if they're allowed outside

4660
03:18:50,319 --> 03:18:53,120
the ADU. If I build an ADU, I want a

4661
03:18:53,120 --> 03:18:56,399
patio, not dirt. Um,

4662
03:18:56,399 --> 03:18:59,920
did you take ASC out of the ADU process,

4663
03:18:59,920 --> 03:19:03,600
light, spill, trees, location? It looks

4664
03:19:03,600 --> 03:19:06,080
like Woodside with ADUs, if they have

4665
03:19:06,080 --> 03:19:08,000
one bedroom, they are allowed to have

4666
03:19:08,000 --> 03:19:09,840
one parking place. So, I'd like to see

4667
03:19:09,840 --> 03:19:12,720
that discussed more. I think selling an

4668
03:19:12,720 --> 03:19:16,160
ADU should be added and put back in.

4669
03:19:16,160 --> 03:19:21,760
that is of interest. The second um sheet

4670
03:19:21,760 --> 03:19:24,000
the fees and explanation should be

4671
03:19:24,000 --> 03:19:28,319
attached as a entire document. And if we

4672
03:19:28,319 --> 03:19:30,960
have 4 foot side and 4 foot back, but I

4673
03:19:30,960 --> 03:19:33,359
want to do the setback at the normal,

4674
03:19:33,359 --> 03:19:36,560
would I get the carrots perks bonus of a

4675
03:19:36,560 --> 03:19:40,800
higher ceiling or uh a deck outside the

4676
03:19:40,800 --> 03:19:44,880
ADU? Looks like that was um taken away.

4677
03:19:44,880 --> 03:19:46,560
And then I'd like to see

4678
03:19:46,560 --> 03:19:48,080
>> So Christie, I'm going to have to ask

4679
03:19:48,080 --> 03:19:49,439
you to close it out.

4680
03:19:49,439 --> 03:19:53,600
>> Pas strike uh that people should pay for

4681
03:19:53,600 --> 03:19:56,319
them because we feel that we're already

4682
03:19:56,319 --> 03:19:58,319
paying for them. And if we need

4683
03:19:58,319 --> 03:19:59,680
something research, we're not

4684
03:19:59,680 --> 03:20:01,920
professionals like you. We can't find

4685
03:20:01,920 --> 03:20:03,760
things like you. We have to ask the

4686
03:20:03,760 --> 03:20:06,000
clerk to find them for us. So I am

4687
03:20:06,000 --> 03:20:08,239
really appalled by the fact that you

4688
03:20:08,239 --> 03:20:12,080
want me to pay per page per. Thank you.

4689
03:20:12,080 --> 03:20:14,880
>> Thank you, Christie.

4690
03:20:14,880 --> 03:20:17,520
All right, before I close the public

4691
03:20:17,520 --> 03:20:19,760
hearing, are there any other public

4692
03:20:19,760 --> 03:20:23,510
comments?

4693
03:20:23,520 --> 03:20:24,960
All right, I see no one in the

4694
03:20:24,960 --> 03:20:26,880
schoolhouse. I see no one online. So,

4695
03:20:26,880 --> 03:20:28,239
I'm now going to close the public

4696
03:20:28,239 --> 03:20:29,760
hearing

4697
03:20:29,760 --> 03:20:32,640
and we will take a short adjournment,

4698
03:20:32,640 --> 03:20:33,840
five minutes. Does that work for

4699
03:20:33,840 --> 03:20:35,920
everybody? Um, and then we'll come back

4700
03:20:35,920 --> 03:20:39,670
and have discussion.

4701
03:20:39,680 --> 03:20:41,680
Veronica, you want to start?

4702
03:20:41,680 --> 03:20:42,960
>> Thank you.

4703
03:20:42,960 --> 03:20:45,200
All right, welcome back everybody. Thank

4704
03:20:45,200 --> 03:20:47,279
you.

4705
03:20:47,279 --> 03:20:50,399
Okay, so before we start, um, a couple

4706
03:20:50,399 --> 03:20:52,560
of questions came up that that I would

4707
03:20:52,560 --> 03:20:55,760
like to hear the answers to. Um, just to

4708
03:20:55,760 --> 03:20:57,760
capture, we had the trails question, the

4709
03:20:57,760 --> 03:20:59,439
notification question, and the scenic

4710
03:20:59,439 --> 03:21:00,640
corridor question. Could you just speak

4711
03:21:00,640 --> 03:21:02,399
to them briefly?

4712
03:21:02,399 --> 03:21:05,760
>> Yes. So, for the trails question in

4713
03:21:05,760 --> 03:21:07,760
specific,

4714
03:21:07,760 --> 03:21:09,600
generally those easements for the trails

4715
03:21:09,600 --> 03:21:12,080
will have a no build condition. Those

4716
03:21:12,080 --> 03:21:14,000
are enforcable

4717
03:21:14,000 --> 03:21:15,920
usually through the building permit. I

4718
03:21:15,920 --> 03:21:18,319
cannot specify as a planner through the

4719
03:21:18,319 --> 03:21:20,640
zoning code an additional setback from

4720
03:21:20,640 --> 03:21:23,600
those. I'm restricted to only the 4ft

4721
03:21:23,600 --> 03:21:26,080
side and rear. Oftent times the trails

4722
03:21:26,080 --> 03:21:29,200
are on what we refer to as the street

4723
03:21:29,200 --> 03:21:33,439
side or the front setback. Um

4724
03:21:33,439 --> 03:21:37,279
so you know working with them we would be able to enforce that at the

4725
03:21:37,279 --> 03:21:39,359
building permit side as long as that

4726
03:21:39,359 --> 03:21:41,359
because that's a private agreement. But

4727
03:21:41,359 --> 03:21:44,399
I cannot as a planner I cannot prescribe

4728
03:21:44,399 --> 03:21:46,399
additional setbacks beyond that because

4729
03:21:46,399 --> 03:21:48,960
again I'm restricted to the 4 foot side

4730
03:21:48,960 --> 03:21:50,640
and rear

4731
03:21:50,640 --> 03:21:53,279
period. It doesn't necessarily take into

4732
03:21:53,279 --> 03:21:56,800
consideration of the easement.

4733
03:21:56,800 --> 03:22:00,560
Um the scenic corridor very again very

4734
03:22:00,560 --> 03:22:03,520
similar is I can only regulate from

4735
03:22:03,520 --> 03:22:05,920
property line. The scenic corridor does

4736
03:22:05,920 --> 03:22:08,080
extend into the property line. We can

4737
03:22:08,080 --> 03:22:10,160
add it when it affects the front

4738
03:22:10,160 --> 03:22:12,080
property because that kind of falls

4739
03:22:12,080 --> 03:22:14,479
under the front setback. Again, that

4740
03:22:14,479 --> 03:22:16,560
would only apply to the units authorized

4741
03:22:16,560 --> 03:22:19,359
by our ordinance. If they want a unit

4742
03:22:19,359 --> 03:22:23,120
under 662 uh 32, I can only apply what

4743
03:22:23,120 --> 03:22:25,520
state allows me to. There is no front

4744
03:22:25,520 --> 03:22:28,000
setback allowance technically for those

4745
03:22:28,000 --> 03:22:30,479
units. They could do it at the property

4746
03:22:30,479 --> 03:22:33,359
line. We again we encourage people to

4747
03:22:33,359 --> 03:22:36,000
set back. We can encourage that but we

4748
03:22:36,000 --> 03:22:38,800
do not have a mechanism to require it or

4749
03:22:38,800 --> 03:22:44,000
and again 66323 or I'm sorry 66 314

4750
03:22:44,000 --> 03:22:46,479
>> yes thank you way too many numbers in my

4751
03:22:46,479 --> 03:22:49,600
head that one yes we can enforce that as

4752
03:22:49,600 --> 03:22:52,640
part of the front setback requirement

4753
03:22:52,640 --> 03:22:54,319
kind of tailored to that if you don't

4754
03:22:54,319 --> 03:22:57,680
mind the latitude is the corner lot the

4755
03:22:57,680 --> 03:22:59,279
state has clarified they do not

4756
03:22:59,279 --> 03:23:02,720
recognize a straight side it is a side

4757
03:23:02,720 --> 03:23:05,840
period There is no special caveat when

4758
03:23:05,840 --> 03:23:09,439
it comes to ADU law for that. So I only

4759
03:23:09,439 --> 03:23:12,239
as a planner I can only look at front

4760
03:23:12,239 --> 03:23:16,000
side rear. So a street side is a side

4761
03:23:16,000 --> 03:23:18,960
step setback for the purposes of ADU

4762
03:23:18,960 --> 03:23:21,120
law. And they actually clarified that at

4763
03:23:21,120 --> 03:23:23,200
the beginning of this year in one of

4764
03:23:23,200 --> 03:23:28,399
their uh webinars they reinforced that they do not recognize a street

4765
03:23:28,399 --> 03:23:30,399
sideyard as a separate thing than a

4766
03:23:30,399 --> 03:23:33,040
sideyard.

4767
03:23:33,040 --> 03:23:34,640
So I'm not sure I So if you're in a

4768
03:23:34,640 --> 03:23:36,960
corner lot, is there a front set back?

4769
03:23:36,960 --> 03:23:38,399
>> There's a front. Yes, you have.

4770
03:23:38,399 --> 03:23:40,000
>> What defines the front?

4771
03:23:40,000 --> 03:23:42,560
>> So that would be to our municipal code

4772
03:23:42,560 --> 03:23:44,479
generally we say the shortest distance

4773
03:23:44,479 --> 03:23:47,040
that's affronting a street is considered

4774
03:23:47,040 --> 03:23:47,760
the front.

4775
03:23:47,760 --> 03:23:50,960
>> Okay. So for the examples of you know

4776
03:23:50,960 --> 03:23:53,760
along you know Alpine or even along you

4777
03:23:53,760 --> 03:23:57,439
know Portola generally if the lot is

4778
03:23:57,439 --> 03:24:00,000
deep and following Pollola and it's

4779
03:24:00,000 --> 03:24:02,160
short on the side and the main streets

4780
03:24:02,160 --> 03:24:04,080
right here that's going to be the front

4781
03:24:04,080 --> 03:24:05,680
everything on porta would be the side

4782
03:24:05,680 --> 03:24:07,600
then

4783
03:24:07,600 --> 03:24:09,520
>> and then uh there was one last question

4784
03:24:09,520 --> 03:24:10,160
if you can cl

4785
03:24:10,160 --> 03:24:11,760
>> notification there was there was a

4786
03:24:11,760 --> 03:24:13,680
request I realize it's not required but

4787
03:24:13,680 --> 03:24:16,479
I think there the question was could we

4788
03:24:16,479 --> 03:24:18,640
provide notification like is that an

4789
03:24:18,640 --> 03:24:20,720
option for us or are we not even allowed

4790
03:24:20,720 --> 03:24:23,439
to do that?

4791
03:24:23,439 --> 03:24:26,160
>> There is no specific provision that

4792
03:24:26,160 --> 03:24:28,399
allows us the ability to do notification

4793
03:24:28,399 --> 03:24:30,399
because the idea is that the ministerial

4794
03:24:30,399 --> 03:24:33,120
process ministerial process there isn't

4795
03:24:33,120 --> 03:24:35,920
public discussion. There isn't this

4796
03:24:35,920 --> 03:24:42,630
public input on the item. Um, it is

4797
03:24:42,640 --> 03:24:44,319
I'm not aware of any other jurisdictions

4798
03:24:44,319 --> 03:24:46,720
that are currently doing that and I

4799
03:24:46,720 --> 03:24:49,840
don't know there personally there could

4800
03:24:49,840 --> 03:24:52,319
be a way where we could weave it in

4801
03:24:52,319 --> 03:24:54,160
there but it can't be from my

4802
03:24:54,160 --> 03:24:55,680
understanding we can't require it. We

4803
03:24:55,680 --> 03:24:57,200
can't say applicant you're going to pay

4804
03:24:57,200 --> 03:24:59,359
us to do the notification. That would

4805
03:24:59,359 --> 03:25:01,680
have to be almost a town cost if we're

4806
03:25:01,680 --> 03:25:03,279
doing that.

4807
03:25:03,279 --> 03:25:05,760
>> Um, and again these are process of the

4808
03:25:05,760 --> 03:25:07,279
building permit. They're not a separate

4809
03:25:07,279 --> 03:25:08,800
planning permit, which is where we

4810
03:25:08,800 --> 03:25:11,359
normally trigger notification is for the

4811
03:25:11,359 --> 03:25:13,359
planning permit, not a building permit.

4812
03:25:13,359 --> 03:25:15,200
And so we would also have to double

4813
03:25:15,200 --> 03:25:16,960
check building code if that's even

4814
03:25:16,960 --> 03:25:18,000
allowed there.

4815
03:25:18,000 --> 03:25:19,840
>> Okay, great. All right. Well, I just

4816
03:25:19,840 --> 03:25:21,520
want to capture those sort of questions

4817
03:25:21,520 --> 03:25:24,399
that we kind of got from the public.

4818
03:25:24,399 --> 03:25:26,720
>> Somebody triggered one last question for

4819
03:25:26,720 --> 03:25:28,479
me, which I think is going to be

4820
03:25:28,479 --> 03:25:31,200
helpful. The objective standards. So,

4821
03:25:31,200 --> 03:25:35,040
say we were to pass this or or agree

4822
03:25:35,040 --> 03:25:36,720
that something should move forward

4823
03:25:36,720 --> 03:25:41,520
tonight. We I heard you say no objective

4824
03:25:41,520 --> 03:25:43,520
standard like don't build in a reference

4825
03:25:43,520 --> 03:25:45,439
to objective standards because HD will

4826
03:25:45,439 --> 03:25:47,200
want to see them tonight and we don't

4827
03:25:47,200 --> 03:25:49,279
have them like or tomorrow. We don't

4828
03:25:49,279 --> 03:25:51,200
have them yet. But there's nothing to

4829
03:25:51,200 --> 03:25:54,319
preclude us from developing those, you

4830
03:25:54,319 --> 03:25:56,399
know, as soon as it's practical. I I

4831
03:25:56,399 --> 03:25:58,720
want your thoughts and then that'll be

4832
03:25:58,720 --> 03:25:59,680
enough for me.

4833
03:25:59,680 --> 03:26:02,319
>> Yes. And so in kind of when I how I

4834
03:26:02,319 --> 03:26:05,520
responded to um council member Flynn is

4835
03:26:05,520 --> 03:26:07,120
when those to get developed, we can add

4836
03:26:07,120 --> 03:26:10,720
them in. That is the the the easy part

4837
03:26:10,720 --> 03:26:12,960
of that. But um I also know Sarah,

4838
03:26:12,960 --> 03:26:14,880
there's some other projects that are

4839
03:26:14,880 --> 03:26:17,279
coming that that could be wrapped into

4840
03:26:17,279 --> 03:26:19,520
and addressed that.

4841
03:26:19,520 --> 03:26:21,200
>> Yes. So I want and this is also in

4842
03:26:21,200 --> 03:26:22,880
response to the public comment and some

4843
03:26:22,880 --> 03:26:24,319
questions we've received throughout the

4844
03:26:24,319 --> 03:26:27,359
process. So, our goal with this code

4845
03:26:27,359 --> 03:26:29,200
update is to make sure we're compliant

4846
03:26:29,200 --> 03:26:32,160
with state law. We currently aren't. And

4847
03:26:32,160 --> 03:26:34,960
our goal was to do the minimum we could

4848
03:26:34,960 --> 03:26:36,319
to make sure we're getting into

4849
03:26:36,319 --> 03:26:38,239
compliance.

4850
03:26:38,239 --> 03:26:39,920
It doesn't say we can't do that in the

4851
03:26:39,920 --> 03:26:42,399
future is go above and beyond and study,

4852
03:26:42,399 --> 03:26:44,080
you know, other objective standards and

4853
03:26:44,080 --> 03:26:45,359
other things that have been brought up

4854
03:26:45,359 --> 03:26:47,920
tonight. But right now, it really is

4855
03:26:47,920 --> 03:26:50,640
looking at what can we do to, you know,

4856
03:26:50,640 --> 03:26:52,239
move this forward to come to compliance

4857
03:26:52,239 --> 03:26:54,399
with state law. And then Brandon did

4858
03:26:54,399 --> 03:26:56,399
point out some of those few moments

4859
03:26:56,399 --> 03:26:58,080
where there is a little bit of

4860
03:26:58,080 --> 03:27:00,080
discretion or open-endedness. I know he

4861
03:27:00,080 --> 03:27:01,920
mentioned the parking, the square foot

4862
03:27:01,920 --> 03:27:04,160
size. So there's a few moments where

4863
03:27:04,160 --> 03:27:06,239
there is some discretion for discussion.

4864
03:27:06,239 --> 03:27:07,760
Planning commission did have discussion

4865
03:27:07,760 --> 03:27:09,120
on some of those things that was

4866
03:27:09,120 --> 03:27:10,960
incorporated into the the amendments

4867
03:27:10,960 --> 03:27:13,040
that are there before you tonight. So

4868
03:27:13,040 --> 03:27:14,319
that's where I just want to call that

4869
03:27:14,319 --> 03:27:16,000
out. We're looking at how can we come

4870
03:27:16,000 --> 03:27:18,960
into compliance with state law.

4871
03:27:18,960 --> 03:27:22,160
We were not given direction to study a

4872
03:27:22,160 --> 03:27:23,920
lot of these other things and I would

4873
03:27:23,920 --> 03:27:26,640
probably you know not recommend deciding

4874
03:27:26,640 --> 03:27:29,920
tonight other requirements that probably

4875
03:27:29,920 --> 03:27:32,000
do need further study. They probably do

4876
03:27:32,000 --> 03:27:34,399
need input from the community. We need

4877
03:27:34,399 --> 03:27:36,000
to have further discussion on those. So

4878
03:27:36,000 --> 03:27:38,000
that was not our intent tonight. But I

4879
03:27:38,000 --> 03:27:39,040
think there is definitely an

4880
03:27:39,040 --> 03:27:40,479
opportunity. I think there's a desire

4881
03:27:40,479 --> 03:27:43,680
and a need to look at other code updates

4882
03:27:43,680 --> 03:27:45,439
maybe holistically within our code or

4883
03:27:45,439 --> 03:27:47,840
also updates that can apply to ADUs in

4884
03:27:47,840 --> 03:27:49,200
general. So, I am cognizant of that and

4885
03:27:49,200 --> 03:27:50,640
I feel like that is a desire from the

4886
03:27:50,640 --> 03:27:52,560
community. We've heard from town council

4887
03:27:52,560 --> 03:27:54,560
members, from our priority setting

4888
03:27:54,560 --> 03:27:56,239
session. We think there is a need to

4889
03:27:56,239 --> 03:27:58,640
update our objective design standards,

4890
03:27:58,640 --> 03:28:00,239
but to clarify that is not being

4891
03:28:00,239 --> 03:28:01,680
proposed tonight. So, it doesn't mean

4892
03:28:01,680 --> 03:28:03,359
that that's not a priority in the future

4893
03:28:03,359 --> 03:28:04,880
for other updates down the road, but

4894
03:28:04,880 --> 03:28:06,560
right now we're really just looking

4895
03:28:06,560 --> 03:28:08,160
coming into state compliance.

4896
03:28:08,160 --> 03:28:10,160
>> Thank you, Sarah. Can um Brandon, could

4897
03:28:10,160 --> 03:28:11,520
you do me a favor? Can you bring your

4898
03:28:11,520 --> 03:28:13,200
slides back up and go to that last

4899
03:28:13,200 --> 03:28:15,359
slide? Um because as we go into

4900
03:28:15,359 --> 03:28:17,920
discussion I want to focus it on you

4901
03:28:17,920 --> 03:28:19,520
know this is what we have to decide

4902
03:28:19,520 --> 03:28:21,760
tonight just so that we don't get too

4903
03:28:21,760 --> 03:28:23,680
far a field.

4904
03:28:23,680 --> 03:28:25,359
>> Can I ask a question while he's doing

4905
03:28:25,359 --> 03:28:28,399
that? U yes we can go back and do them

4906
03:28:28,399 --> 03:28:30,319
over but does that going to trigger a

4907
03:28:30,319 --> 03:28:33,120
whole bunch of HCD attention if we if we

4908
03:28:33,120 --> 03:28:35,040
do an ordinance? I mean, in other words,

4909
03:28:35,040 --> 03:28:37,200
once we get it passed through HCD and

4910
03:28:37,200 --> 03:28:38,720
then we come back and say, well, we want

4911
03:28:38,720 --> 03:28:40,800
to add something about the character of

4912
03:28:40,800 --> 03:28:42,880
the town and all those wonderful things

4913
03:28:42,880 --> 03:28:45,680
and fences and whatever it might be, is

4914
03:28:45,680 --> 03:28:48,000
that going to be reviewed by HCD and are

4915
03:28:48,000 --> 03:28:49,600
they going to give us a hard time?

4916
03:28:49,600 --> 03:28:53,279
>> Any any amendment to our ADU ordinance

4917
03:28:53,279 --> 03:28:56,960
needs to be reviewed by HCD? So, yes. So

4918
03:28:56,960 --> 03:28:59,200
we if we do come back later and add them

4919
03:28:59,200 --> 03:29:01,920
in those objective standards to the

4920
03:29:01,920 --> 03:29:04,800
ordinance, we would have to

4921
03:29:04,800 --> 03:29:08,080
um we would have to route that to HCD.

4922
03:29:08,080 --> 03:29:10,239
However, HCD most likely will just look

4923
03:29:10,239 --> 03:29:12,399
at what we're proposing as that part of

4924
03:29:12,399 --> 03:29:15,279
the amendment. Um they won't necessarily

4925
03:29:15,279 --> 03:29:17,680
reopen it unless they find, hey, we

4926
03:29:17,680 --> 03:29:19,680
updated state law again and now this

4927
03:29:19,680 --> 03:29:22,399
provision's out of compliance. But we're

4928
03:29:22,399 --> 03:29:25,359
planning on doing yearly updates anyways

4929
03:29:25,359 --> 03:29:27,760
per our housing element because that has

4930
03:29:27,760 --> 03:29:29,840
been what's happening is the state's

4931
03:29:29,840 --> 03:29:35,920
changing the requirements every year. We should know probably by July if there

4932
03:29:35,920 --> 03:29:37,920
are any serious bills that we need to

4933
03:29:37,920 --> 03:29:40,239
start planning for for next year and we

4934
03:29:40,239 --> 03:29:42,720
can kind of start prepping for that. And

4935
03:29:42,720 --> 03:29:44,399
then as part of the other discussions

4936
03:29:44,399 --> 03:29:46,080
like Sarah said and kind of the priority

4937
03:29:46,080 --> 03:29:48,560
setting from the council, we can maybe

4938
03:29:48,560 --> 03:29:51,520
invest and look into those other kind of

4939
03:29:51,520 --> 03:29:53,279
caveats if we want to go slightly above

4940
03:29:53,279 --> 03:29:55,439
and beyond. The objective standards that

4941
03:29:55,439 --> 03:29:58,080
we have in there now were the minimum

4942
03:29:58,080 --> 03:30:00,239
that we have or the ones that we had

4943
03:30:00,239 --> 03:30:02,800
existing that we could still apply and

4944
03:30:02,800 --> 03:30:05,120
so that was the intent.

4945
03:30:05,120 --> 03:30:06,319
>> Thank you. Could

4946
03:30:06,319 --> 03:30:07,920
>> Could I ask a quick question on timing

4947
03:30:07,920 --> 03:30:10,640
and for these options?

4948
03:30:10,640 --> 03:30:13,439
>> Um Sure.

4949
03:30:13,439 --> 03:30:17,520
>> So, if it were to get approved today or

4950
03:30:17,520 --> 03:30:19,680
whatever, I'm not sure which one

4951
03:30:19,680 --> 03:30:20,880
>> introduced

4952
03:30:20,880 --> 03:30:22,640
>> introduce ordinance as proposed or with

4953
03:30:22,640 --> 03:30:25,200
revisions or whatever. Um, say it's with

4954
03:30:25,200 --> 03:30:27,439
revisions. What What's the next step?

4955
03:30:27,439 --> 03:30:30,479
You said it would come back as a um

4956
03:30:30,479 --> 03:30:32,960
consent agenda item. What would be the

4957
03:30:32,960 --> 03:30:33,760
timing on that?

4958
03:30:33,760 --> 03:30:35,520
>> Yeah. So, it would come back at a second

4959
03:30:35,520 --> 03:30:37,439
reading, which generally we try to

4960
03:30:37,439 --> 03:30:40,560
schedule at the next uh council meeting.

4961
03:30:40,560 --> 03:30:42,800
So that would be on your agenda then on

4962
03:30:42,800 --> 03:30:46,080
your consent item as a second reading.

4963
03:30:46,080 --> 03:30:49,040
Um and really it's also going to depend

4964
03:30:49,040 --> 03:30:51,279
on how specific the revisions are and

4965
03:30:51,279 --> 03:30:52,960
what's kind of the timeline because

4966
03:30:52,960 --> 03:30:54,560
staff will need to go in and type those

4967
03:30:54,560 --> 03:30:56,319
in for you to make sure it's included in

4968
03:30:56,319 --> 03:30:58,720
the ordinance. So if it's not the next

4969
03:30:58,720 --> 03:30:59,920
meeting, it might be the following

4970
03:30:59,920 --> 03:31:02,160
meeting just depending on the scope of

4971
03:31:02,160 --> 03:31:03,520
the revisions. We're hoping to keep

4972
03:31:03,520 --> 03:31:05,760
those as minimal as possible or as

4973
03:31:05,760 --> 03:31:07,200
straightforward as possible so we can

4974
03:31:07,200 --> 03:31:09,359
turn it around quicker.

4975
03:31:09,359 --> 03:31:11,600
Thank you. All right. So, the reason I

4976
03:31:11,600 --> 03:31:13,120
um asked Brandon to bring up this slide

4977
03:31:13,120 --> 03:31:15,359
is obviously we're going to go into

4978
03:31:15,359 --> 03:31:17,600
discussion, but I would like to focus

4979
03:31:17,600 --> 03:31:19,359
the discussion around this list. Like

4980
03:31:19,359 --> 03:31:22,399
where do you stand on this list? If

4981
03:31:22,399 --> 03:31:24,399
you're as proposed, great. If you're

4982
03:31:24,399 --> 03:31:27,520
with revisions, then what um revisions

4983
03:31:27,520 --> 03:31:29,760
are you proposing? Um or are we trying

4984
03:31:29,760 --> 03:31:31,760
to, you know, not in like you're just

4985
03:31:31,760 --> 03:31:33,359
this is the wrong thing to do period.

4986
03:31:33,359 --> 03:31:35,200
Let's just default to the state. Or

4987
03:31:35,200 --> 03:31:37,600
finally, do we continue this um and give

4988
03:31:37,600 --> 03:31:40,640
staff direction and then come back

4989
03:31:40,640 --> 03:31:44,160
again? Um and and I think and Katherine,

4990
03:31:44,160 --> 03:31:46,720
you need to help me here. If we continue

4991
03:31:46,720 --> 03:31:50,000
this item, we still need to keep any

4992
03:31:50,000 --> 03:31:53,760
revisions fairly small, don't we? Or we

4993
03:31:53,760 --> 03:31:55,359
risk going back and having to have

4994
03:31:55,359 --> 03:31:56,960
another public hearing. Is that correct?

4995
03:31:56,960 --> 03:31:59,120
>> Well, the last option is actually

4996
03:31:59,120 --> 03:32:00,640
another public hearing.

4997
03:32:00,640 --> 03:32:02,000
>> Is that effectively what it is? that is

4998
03:32:02,000 --> 03:32:03,200
effectively. So you would actually

4999
03:32:03,200 --> 03:32:06,000
continue the public hearing. Um and if

5000
03:32:06,000 --> 03:32:07,680
you continue it to a date certain then

5001
03:32:07,680 --> 03:32:10,720
you don't need to do the renoticing. Um

5002
03:32:10,720 --> 03:32:13,760
but depending on the you know extent of

5003
03:32:13,760 --> 03:32:17,040
the the requests and the changes um or

5004
03:32:17,040 --> 03:32:19,439
the direction you know it probably

5005
03:32:19,439 --> 03:32:20,720
wouldn't be the very next council

5006
03:32:20,720 --> 03:32:23,120
meeting but might you know need to be

5007
03:32:23,120 --> 03:32:25,680
depending on the town manager uh

5008
03:32:25,680 --> 03:32:28,479
suggests uh you know a future a future

5009
03:32:28,479 --> 03:32:30,319
meeting June July that kind of thing.

5010
03:32:30,319 --> 03:32:31,680
>> Right. I I think the question I was

5011
03:32:31,680 --> 03:32:35,439
trying to ask is if we continued it and

5012
03:32:35,439 --> 03:32:40,950
we wanted to make substantial changes

5013
03:32:40,960 --> 03:32:42,399
is can we do that as part of a

5014
03:32:42,399 --> 03:32:44,239
continuation or at some point have you

5015
03:32:44,239 --> 03:32:46,560
made so many changes that it's not a

5016
03:32:46,560 --> 03:32:47,760
continuation anymore because it's

5017
03:32:47,760 --> 03:32:48,720
already gone to the planning commission

5018
03:32:48,720 --> 03:32:50,000
like when did when would it have to go

5019
03:32:50,000 --> 03:32:51,840
back to the planning to come back from

5020
03:32:51,840 --> 03:32:53,920
us like when do we sort of like right

5021
03:32:53,920 --> 03:32:55,600
now what you have here and this one the

5022
03:32:55,600 --> 03:32:57,200
you know these are fairly small I'm

5023
03:32:57,200 --> 03:32:58,960
comfortable that these don't go back to

5024
03:32:58,960 --> 03:33:00,640
the planning commission but if we made

5025
03:33:00,640 --> 03:33:02,960
major changes,

5026
03:33:02,960 --> 03:33:04,960
when would we have to, you know, sort of

5027
03:33:04,960 --> 03:33:06,880
recycle this or, you know, circle back

5028
03:33:06,880 --> 03:33:07,760
around?

5029
03:33:07,760 --> 03:33:09,840
>> Yeah. Substantive changes that have not

5030
03:33:09,840 --> 03:33:11,200
been considered by the planning

5031
03:33:11,200 --> 03:33:12,479
commission do need to go back to the

5032
03:33:12,479 --> 03:33:14,000
planning commission. Now, the planning

5033
03:33:14,000 --> 03:33:15,920
commission considered, I mean, all of

5034
03:33:15,920 --> 03:33:18,399
these options, including repealing and

5035
03:33:18,399 --> 03:33:19,680
just going with state law. That was

5036
03:33:19,680 --> 03:33:21,840
actually part of their discussion. Um

5037
03:33:21,840 --> 03:33:25,120
but you know if um and I'm I'm

5038
03:33:25,120 --> 03:33:26,239
struggling to think of an example of

5039
03:33:26,239 --> 03:33:27,439
something they didn't consider because

5040
03:33:27,439 --> 03:33:28,800
they actually had quite an extensive

5041
03:33:28,800 --> 03:33:30,319
conversation but yeah in theory you

5042
03:33:30,319 --> 03:33:31,600
there could be a situation where you

5043
03:33:31,600 --> 03:33:32,960
need to go back to them.

5044
03:33:32,960 --> 03:33:36,160
>> Okay. Thank you. Okay. So with that why

5045
03:33:36,160 --> 03:33:38,960
don't we start the discussion. Um

5046
03:33:38,960 --> 03:33:41,279
Rebecca do J do you want to go first?

5047
03:33:41,279 --> 03:33:43,520
Great. Sure. Please. Um

5048
03:33:43,520 --> 03:33:46,560
>> all right. Um I'm gonna go with number

5049
03:33:46,560 --> 03:33:49,359
two. Um,

5050
03:33:49,359 --> 03:33:54,000
I dislike all of these state imposed AD

5051
03:33:54,000 --> 03:33:55,680
restrictions.

5052
03:33:55,680 --> 03:33:57,760
They're well intended. They don't fit

5053
03:33:57,760 --> 03:34:00,399
us. I've struggled with this for like 15

5054
03:34:00,399 --> 03:34:04,160
years. So, with that caveat, um, I want

5055
03:34:04,160 --> 03:34:07,040
to thank the planning commission for

5056
03:34:07,040 --> 03:34:09,200
giving a lot of focus and feedback on

5057
03:34:09,200 --> 03:34:12,239
it. um I they are a body that is

5058
03:34:12,239 --> 03:34:16,560
meaningful to the town and they um you

5059
03:34:16,560 --> 03:34:19,520
know are very thoughtful. So in general

5060
03:34:19,520 --> 03:34:22,640
I I was pretty good with uh where this

5061
03:34:22,640 --> 03:34:26,720
came out overall. Um I do want to remind

5062
03:34:26,720 --> 03:34:30,000
people that you know we do have this

5063
03:34:30,000 --> 03:34:33,920
isn't a one on oneot thing in the way I

5064
03:34:33,920 --> 03:34:36,479
look at it at least. I think you know

5065
03:34:36,479 --> 03:34:38,560
the near-term objective because it's

5066
03:34:38,560 --> 03:34:41,279
important ADUs are just going to be part

5067
03:34:41,279 --> 03:34:46,319
of our evolving set of um ordinances

5068
03:34:46,319 --> 03:34:48,560
for the foreseeable future every year as

5069
03:34:48,560 --> 03:34:51,680
you said. So from my perspective, what's

5070
03:34:51,680 --> 03:34:53,279
the what are we really trying to do

5071
03:34:53,279 --> 03:34:56,800
here? And for me, I do want to get um

5072
03:34:56,800 --> 03:34:59,520
compliant with state law. we don't need

5073
03:34:59,520 --> 03:35:04,239
extra hurdles in getting compliant with

5074
03:35:04,239 --> 03:35:08,880
whenever HD does get back um to us. Uh I

5075
03:35:08,880 --> 03:35:10,319
want to make sure that this is something

5076
03:35:10,319 --> 03:35:14,720
we're managing and manage well. Um and I

5077
03:35:14,720 --> 03:35:17,520
don't want the tonight I would suggest

5078
03:35:17,520 --> 03:35:20,960
that people try not to get you know the

5079
03:35:20,960 --> 03:35:23,200
enemy of of

5080
03:35:23,200 --> 03:35:25,520
the good is perfect you know like

5081
03:35:25,520 --> 03:35:26,640
>> perfect is the enemy of the good.

5082
03:35:26,640 --> 03:35:28,880
>> Yeah. Whatever. I've been up a long time

5083
03:35:28,880 --> 03:35:30,880
today. Sorry about that. And thank you.

5084
03:35:30,880 --> 03:35:33,439
Um, but I think that's really important

5085
03:35:33,439 --> 03:35:35,920
for for me in framing it because there

5086
03:35:35,920 --> 03:35:38,640
is so much that I would want to try to

5087
03:35:38,640 --> 03:35:41,040
do. Most of it's been raised by the

5088
03:35:41,040 --> 03:35:43,200
planning commission and my fellow

5089
03:35:43,200 --> 03:35:46,720
council members. Um but overall I think

5090
03:35:46,720 --> 03:35:50,880
um I I I think we

5091
03:35:50,880 --> 03:35:55,279
are um we need to keep it simple adding

5092
03:35:55,279 --> 03:35:58,399
as you know I'm not the lawyer on this

5093
03:35:58,399 --> 03:36:01,120
but one of my principles is add nothing

5094
03:36:01,120 --> 03:36:04,239
that you haven't pressure test tested

5095
03:36:04,239 --> 03:36:06,800
for the implications into an ordinance.

5096
03:36:06,800 --> 03:36:09,760
you you really need to think of multiple

5097
03:36:09,760 --> 03:36:11,279
different ways it could be looked at,

5098
03:36:11,279 --> 03:36:13,359
interpreted, and used for and against

5099
03:36:13,359 --> 03:36:16,720
you. So, I tend to want to hone it down

5100
03:36:16,720 --> 03:36:19,439
and not have directional guidance on

5101
03:36:19,439 --> 03:36:21,439
intent, for example. That's just

5102
03:36:21,439 --> 03:36:23,680
something I'm going to be particular

5103
03:36:23,680 --> 03:36:30,229
about. Um, and um,

5104
03:36:30,239 --> 03:36:34,080
in terms of the guidelines, um, super

5105
03:36:34,080 --> 03:36:36,239
important to get objective guidelines. I

5106
03:36:36,239 --> 03:36:38,239
mean, I I can't understate the

5107
03:36:38,239 --> 03:36:40,080
importance of that because pending

5108
03:36:40,080 --> 03:36:43,200
projects coming through. Um, the

5109
03:36:43,200 --> 03:36:45,040
public's concerned, the applicants are

5110
03:36:45,040 --> 03:36:47,600
probably confused. Um, you know, it's

5111
03:36:47,600 --> 03:36:50,160
not good to have them hanging out there.

5112
03:36:50,160 --> 03:36:51,760
I take your point on there's going to be

5113
03:36:51,760 --> 03:36:54,000
a moment when it's feasible and it's not

5114
03:36:54,000 --> 03:36:58,479
right now. So, I get that. Um the only

5115
03:36:58,479 --> 03:37:04,000
um area where I I do have issue is the

5116
03:37:04,000 --> 03:37:05,600
indemnity

5117
03:37:05,600 --> 03:37:10,239
and I I would not charge for the P. It's

5118
03:37:10,239 --> 03:37:12,319
a sad fact of the matter. They are

5119
03:37:12,319 --> 03:37:15,200
overexpensive. They can be abused. But I

5120
03:37:15,200 --> 03:37:16,560
personally think the policy of

5121
03:37:16,560 --> 03:37:20,560
transparency is really important and uh

5122
03:37:20,560 --> 03:37:24,560
we shouldn't be punishing good faith

5123
03:37:24,560 --> 03:37:27,359
actors and requests by assuming

5124
03:37:27,359 --> 03:37:29,600
nefarious intent. So I would I would not

5125
03:37:29,600 --> 03:37:32,399
include the P request in there even

5126
03:37:32,399 --> 03:37:34,239
though I acknowledge it's a problem. You

5127
03:37:34,239 --> 03:37:36,479
know it can be abused and it has been

5128
03:37:36,479 --> 03:37:38,720
you know overused.

5129
03:37:38,720 --> 03:37:44,479
Um then in terms of the lack of an

5130
03:37:44,479 --> 03:37:49,760
exception for negligence and bad acts um

5131
03:37:49,760 --> 03:37:51,439
you know I don't know where in the

5132
03:37:51,439 --> 03:37:54,720
spectrum uh professional malfeasence

5133
03:37:54,720 --> 03:37:57,439
falls but I am worried about that. I

5134
03:37:57,439 --> 03:38:04,880
don't think it's fair for applicants to to have to indemnify us for bad

5135
03:38:04,880 --> 03:38:08,000
process bad acts. So that that is very

5136
03:38:08,000 --> 03:38:11,279
important to me. Um I think when we're

5137
03:38:11,279 --> 03:38:14,239
in good faith processing an application

5138
03:38:14,239 --> 03:38:16,479
and things just fall apart and we're

5139
03:38:16,479 --> 03:38:18,000
caught in the middle, that's one thing

5140
03:38:18,000 --> 03:38:20,399
we should be indemnified for. But if

5141
03:38:20,399 --> 03:38:23,600
it's frankly our our inability to get

5142
03:38:23,600 --> 03:38:26,479
things right, that that shouldn't be

5143
03:38:26,479 --> 03:38:28,800
something an applicant passes on to us.

5144
03:38:28,800 --> 03:38:30,880
We always have the ability not to ask

5145
03:38:30,880 --> 03:38:35,040
for it if that becomes an issue. But as

5146
03:38:35,040 --> 03:38:36,720
again, this is going to be what

5147
03:38:36,720 --> 03:38:39,040
applicants coming to Porto Valley

5148
03:38:39,040 --> 03:38:40,960
initially getting to know us are going

5149
03:38:40,960 --> 03:38:43,279
to see. And I I think if it's like an

5150
03:38:43,279 --> 03:38:46,080
over broad ask, it's not going to go

5151
03:38:46,080 --> 03:38:48,800
well. So I would want the P out. I would

5152
03:38:48,800 --> 03:38:51,520
want an exception for negligence,

5153
03:38:51,520 --> 03:38:54,880
recklessness, I would ask you to um

5154
03:38:54,880 --> 03:38:56,880
think about what the level there would

5155
03:38:56,880 --> 03:38:59,600
be. Um

5156
03:38:59,600 --> 03:39:01,439
thank you for all the work and the

5157
03:39:01,439 --> 03:39:03,520
explanations. And I I guess the last

5158
03:39:03,520 --> 03:39:06,800
point I have is honestly it's it's

5159
03:39:06,800 --> 03:39:09,200
simply not fair to ask the council

5160
03:39:09,200 --> 03:39:13,920
members to to process lengthy, very

5161
03:39:13,920 --> 03:39:16,800
detailed anything the day of. It just

5162
03:39:16,800 --> 03:39:19,200
isn't fair. So I would ask us in the

5163
03:39:19,200 --> 03:39:22,080
longer term when we're not like tired

5164
03:39:22,080 --> 03:39:24,560
and and our eyes aren't blurry to try

5165
03:39:24,560 --> 03:39:26,399
and think are there process improvements

5166
03:39:26,399 --> 03:39:29,439
that we can make um to avoid that

5167
03:39:29,439 --> 03:39:30,880
because I really take this very

5168
03:39:30,880 --> 03:39:33,439
seriously. I want to read everything,

5169
03:39:33,439 --> 03:39:36,080
but it it can become overwhelming when

5170
03:39:36,080 --> 03:39:38,239
it's quite so technical. So, that's a

5171
03:39:38,239 --> 03:39:41,040
request. Thank you.

5172
03:39:41,040 --> 03:39:43,600
>> Thank you, Judith. Anybody want to go

5173
03:39:43,600 --> 03:39:45,600
next?

5174
03:39:45,600 --> 03:39:47,840
>> Rebecca, I know you got you thought

5175
03:39:47,840 --> 03:39:50,479
about this.

5176
03:39:50,479 --> 03:39:53,359
>> So, I'm between number two and number

5177
03:39:53,359 --> 03:39:55,760
four.

5178
03:39:55,760 --> 03:39:59,120
Um, it's a very difficult um decision to

5179
03:39:59,120 --> 03:40:00,960
be honest. I I feel like there's a ton

5180
03:40:00,960 --> 03:40:03,920
of stuff that just

5181
03:40:03,920 --> 03:40:07,040
could could use improvements and I'm

5182
03:40:07,040 --> 03:40:09,760
cognizant of Judith's comment of perfect

5183
03:40:09,760 --> 03:40:13,840
the enemy of the good. Um I I understand

5184
03:40:13,840 --> 03:40:17,760
some of the implications of not at least

5185
03:40:17,760 --> 03:40:21,120
getting our three objective requirements

5186
03:40:21,120 --> 03:40:24,319
that are in here in into action

5187
03:40:24,319 --> 03:40:26,960
immediately. I I I think that's kind of

5188
03:40:26,960 --> 03:40:31,279
important. Um, if we do go with two, I

5189
03:40:31,279 --> 03:40:37,120
would want to have um the 851,000

5190
03:40:37,120 --> 03:40:40,239
limit for maximum size instead of 1,200

5191
03:40:40,239 --> 03:40:42,399
since we don't seem to have any ability

5192
03:40:42,399 --> 03:40:45,600
to actually manage setbacks.

5193
03:40:45,600 --> 03:40:50,319
Um, in terms of the parking issue, I I I

5194
03:40:50,319 --> 03:40:52,560
get very much, you know, you the

5195
03:40:52,560 --> 03:40:54,640
consequences you said of of requiring

5196
03:40:54,640 --> 03:40:56,319
parking in a situation where someone

5197
03:40:56,319 --> 03:40:58,960
would have to do massive um ground

5198
03:40:58,960 --> 03:41:04,960
works. Um, in the absence of being able to have

5199
03:41:04,960 --> 03:41:07,120
some type of verbiage

5200
03:41:07,120 --> 03:41:09,200
where we define which parking is

5201
03:41:09,200 --> 03:41:11,439
actually required,

5202
03:41:11,439 --> 03:41:12,960
um, I wouldn't want to have it a

5203
03:41:12,960 --> 03:41:15,520
blanket. a parking space is required

5204
03:41:15,520 --> 03:41:17,279
given that somebody could then, you

5205
03:41:17,279 --> 03:41:19,359
know, do a massive project that then

5206
03:41:19,359 --> 03:41:22,160
doesn't require ASC approval. So, I

5207
03:41:22,160 --> 03:41:23,200
don't know if there's some sort of

5208
03:41:23,200 --> 03:41:25,439
language that would say a parking space

5209
03:41:25,439 --> 03:41:27,840
is required in your driveway or in an

5210
03:41:27,840 --> 03:41:29,600
existing driveway or something like

5211
03:41:29,600 --> 03:41:33,840
that. Um, if if something kind of really

5212
03:41:33,840 --> 03:41:37,760
tight sort of thing um

5213
03:41:37,760 --> 03:41:40,720
was possible, then you know, I think I

5214
03:41:40,720 --> 03:41:43,120
would want to have parking. you know, if

5215
03:41:43,120 --> 03:41:45,279
it's possible to have, you know, a

5216
03:41:45,279 --> 03:41:48,160
parking place is required on your

5217
03:41:48,160 --> 03:41:51,760
driveway or on your site. I don't know

5218
03:41:51,760 --> 03:41:53,840
if it's feasible without major earth

5219
03:41:53,840 --> 03:41:57,279
works or some I don't know. Um I I did

5220
03:41:57,279 --> 03:42:01,279
want to touch base back with Helen's um

5221
03:42:01,279 --> 03:42:04,399
concern with the f um the Cal Housing

5222
03:42:04,399 --> 03:42:07,680
Defense Fund back on this undergrounding

5223
03:42:07,680 --> 03:42:10,080
thing because

5224
03:42:10,080 --> 03:42:16,790
reading it, it does say that 66323

5225
03:42:16,800 --> 03:42:19,359
are not required

5226
03:42:19,359 --> 03:42:21,359
to install a new or separate utility

5227
03:42:21,359 --> 03:42:23,760
connection directly between the unit and

5228
03:42:23,760 --> 03:42:25,439
the utility.

5229
03:42:25,439 --> 03:42:29,200
Unless I think it says unless the unit

5230
03:42:29,200 --> 03:42:31,840
was constructed with a new single family

5231
03:42:31,840 --> 03:42:33,760
dwelling.

5232
03:42:33,760 --> 03:42:36,800
So if that is a situation we my

5233
03:42:36,800 --> 03:42:38,239
understanding is that then we cannot

5234
03:42:38,239 --> 03:42:40,720
require them to be underground. So I

5235
03:42:40,720 --> 03:42:42,479
feel that we need to just have a little

5236
03:42:42,479 --> 03:42:49,200
caveat there under the section five when you have

5237
03:42:49,200 --> 03:42:50,560
when a new or separate utility

5238
03:42:50,560 --> 03:42:52,080
connection directly between the ADU and

5239
03:42:52,080 --> 03:42:55,920
the utility proposed may not be the perfect word

5240
03:42:55,920 --> 03:42:57,600
there but the utility connections will

5241
03:42:57,600 --> 03:43:04,640
be placed underground consist 18 da da unless it's a 66323

5242
03:43:04,640 --> 03:43:06,960
unit. I mean, I I think to me, I think

5243
03:43:06,960 --> 03:43:09,760
that has to go in there. If if if we're

5244
03:43:09,760 --> 03:43:12,399
not allowed if we're required if in

5245
03:43:12,399 --> 03:43:14,080
there's one situation where we're

5246
03:43:14,080 --> 03:43:18,000
required to um

5247
03:43:18,000 --> 03:43:20,560
an ADU is required to have this separate

5248
03:43:20,560 --> 03:43:22,880
utility, separate connection, you know,

5249
03:43:22,880 --> 03:43:25,120
we cannot require it to be underground

5250
03:43:25,120 --> 03:43:27,680
for a 66 323. So, I think I would

5251
03:43:27,680 --> 03:43:28,960
recommend that you take a look a little

5252
03:43:28,960 --> 03:43:30,399
bit at that and that that one needs to

5253
03:43:30,399 --> 03:43:32,640
be resolved by the time this were to

5254
03:43:32,640 --> 03:43:39,600
come back to us. Um

5255
03:43:39,600 --> 03:43:41,600
I did I did want to address the comment

5256
03:43:41,600 --> 03:43:43,199
of the legal authority of the HCG

5257
03:43:43,199 --> 03:43:46,239
handbook. Um I did go through it again

5258
03:43:46,239 --> 03:43:49,520
yesterday and I and I went and

5259
03:43:49,520 --> 03:43:50,960
highlighted all the things that I

5260
03:43:50,960 --> 03:43:53,439
consider to be incorrect in there. So as

5261
03:43:53,439 --> 03:43:55,760
you said, you know, what do you do when

5262
03:43:55,760 --> 03:43:57,920
the the information is flat out wrong?

5263
03:43:57,920 --> 03:44:00,560
But, you know, take you know, but but

5264
03:44:00,560 --> 03:44:02,800
somehow the the the state government has

5265
03:44:02,800 --> 03:44:05,199
given HCD the authority to kind of

5266
03:44:05,199 --> 03:44:07,120
determine how they interpret the the

5267
03:44:07,120 --> 03:44:08,960
law, which

5268
03:44:08,960 --> 03:44:11,520
is very generous. Um,

5269
03:44:11,520 --> 03:44:12,800
>> Rebecca, can I just ask a quick

5270
03:44:12,800 --> 03:44:14,720
question? Is this handbook something

5271
03:44:14,720 --> 03:44:16,960
that HCDs approved? Like, is this their

5272
03:44:16,960 --> 03:44:18,720
handbook? Okay, so it is. Okay. I just

5273
03:44:18,720 --> 03:44:19,760
wanted to make sure. Thank you. Keep

5274
03:44:19,760 --> 03:44:21,040
going. All right.

5275
03:44:21,040 --> 03:44:24,800
>> Um, let's see. Where was I?

5276
03:44:24,800 --> 03:44:27,279
Um,

5277
03:44:27,279 --> 03:44:32,239
of course I'm just so concerned about,

5278
03:44:32,239 --> 03:44:34,000
you know, we have nothing in this

5279
03:44:34,000 --> 03:44:36,319
ordinance that really discourages people

5280
03:44:36,319 --> 03:44:39,359
from putting putting ADUs at 4 feet on

5281
03:44:39,359 --> 03:44:40,800
the property line. I mean, we have one

5282
03:44:40,800 --> 03:44:42,319
little statement saying, you know, we

5283
03:44:42,319 --> 03:44:45,439
encourage you to follow base voting and

5284
03:44:45,439 --> 03:44:47,359
it doesn't seem like we can put anything

5285
03:44:47,359 --> 03:44:51,680
in here really that um

5286
03:44:51,680 --> 03:44:53,279
they were totally limited by the way

5287
03:44:53,279 --> 03:44:54,560
that they're they're interpreting that

5288
03:44:54,560 --> 03:44:57,359
D7 for everything. Even though they say

5289
03:44:57,359 --> 03:44:59,040
right up front that we we have the right

5290
03:44:59,040 --> 03:45:01,199
to discern setbacks, which to me are

5291
03:45:01,199 --> 03:45:04,319
defined as not between buildings, but

5292
03:45:04,319 --> 03:45:07,199
from the street or from the side, but um

5293
03:45:07,199 --> 03:45:08,880
that they've chosen to define that as

5294
03:45:08,880 --> 03:45:11,520
four feet, which is really unfortunate

5295
03:45:11,520 --> 03:45:13,520
because,

5296
03:45:13,520 --> 03:45:15,840
you know, it makes no sense in our our

5297
03:45:15,840 --> 03:45:19,279
area. Um,

5298
03:45:19,279 --> 03:45:21,439
I mean, those are my main change

5299
03:45:21,439 --> 03:45:25,439
requests, I guess, but I I can't

5300
03:45:25,439 --> 03:45:27,520
I I don't know which whe whether I would

5301
03:45:27,520 --> 03:45:29,439
rather just continue it. I I don't write

5302
03:45:29,439 --> 03:45:30,880
this minute in my head. I'd rather hear

5303
03:45:30,880 --> 03:45:32,640
some more feedback whether we you make

5304
03:45:32,640 --> 03:45:37,189
those changes. Um,

5305
03:45:37,199 --> 03:45:37,439
and

5306
03:45:37,439 --> 03:45:39,920
>> well, I think we got your input and then

5307
03:45:39,920 --> 03:45:40,720
after

5308
03:45:40,720 --> 03:45:41,840
>> I wanted to talk about the

5309
03:45:41,840 --> 03:45:44,000
indemnification. I I do agree with

5310
03:45:44,000 --> 03:45:48,319
Judith about um the PAS and putting a

5311
03:45:48,319 --> 03:45:52,560
little bit more boundaries on the um

5312
03:45:52,560 --> 03:45:55,199
Oh yeah, the malfeasants. Yes. Yes. So

5313
03:45:55,199 --> 03:45:56,720
coming up with some verb some just

5314
03:45:56,720 --> 03:45:59,760
gentle verbiage that would at least give

5315
03:45:59,760 --> 03:46:02,239
you know applicants something of

5316
03:46:02,239 --> 03:46:04,000
protection.

5317
03:46:04,000 --> 03:46:07,279
>> So thank you. Okay Helen.

5318
03:46:07,279 --> 03:46:10,479
>> Thanks. Um,

5319
03:46:10,479 --> 03:46:13,120
so first I really appreciate everyone's

5320
03:46:13,120 --> 03:46:16,560
questions and work on this effort. Um,

5321
03:46:16,560 --> 03:46:18,560
you know, the new housing laws are head

5322
03:46:18,560 --> 03:46:22,880
spinning, right? We know that. Um, don't

5323
03:46:22,880 --> 03:46:24,800
worry, Scott Weiner is running for

5324
03:46:24,800 --> 03:46:30,070
Congress. Might slow down.

5325
03:46:30,080 --> 03:46:31,600
So,

5326
03:46:31,600 --> 03:46:34,239
um, I looked up when the 4-foot setback

5327
03:46:34,239 --> 03:46:36,640
law was passed and it was actually

5328
03:46:36,640 --> 03:46:40,160
passed in 2020, you know, so some of us

5329
03:46:40,160 --> 03:46:44,399
probably didn't notice. Um, we, you

5330
03:46:44,399 --> 03:46:46,880
know, um,

5331
03:46:46,880 --> 03:46:49,600
and respectfully, the town is still

5332
03:46:49,600 --> 03:46:51,840
very, you know, the town has been

5333
03:46:51,840 --> 03:46:54,080
allowing these 4-foot setbacks because

5334
03:46:54,080 --> 03:46:57,520
it's been state law. Is right.

5335
03:46:57,520 --> 03:46:58,560
That's correct. Yes.

5336
03:46:58,560 --> 03:47:01,600
>> Right. So, um,

5337
03:47:01,600 --> 03:47:05,359
and we're still very rural feeling. Um,

5338
03:47:05,359 --> 03:47:07,840
you know, like still the rural town

5339
03:47:07,840 --> 03:47:10,640
feeling that we love. Um, I haven't

5340
03:47:10,640 --> 03:47:13,520
noticed much difference, right? Um, I

5341
03:47:13,520 --> 03:47:15,439
think we have too many parking lots

5342
03:47:15,439 --> 03:47:21,279
along our scenic corridor, but they're not ADUs, right?

5343
03:47:21,279 --> 03:47:26,319
Um, so what I'm also seeing is 800

5344
03:47:26,319 --> 03:47:28,160
square foot

5345
03:47:28,160 --> 03:47:30,640
ADUs being built.

5346
03:47:30,640 --> 03:47:34,720
You okay? Okay. 800 square f feet being

5347
03:47:34,720 --> 03:47:36,880
built and then signed off and then

5348
03:47:36,880 --> 03:47:39,040
illegally expanded,

5349
03:47:39,040 --> 03:47:41,199
which really worries me, right? And I've

5350
03:47:41,199 --> 03:47:45,520
seen that numerous times. Um so and

5351
03:47:45,520 --> 03:47:48,080
lastly what because of the way our code

5352
03:47:48,080 --> 03:47:51,840
is people can then build a garage as you

5353
03:47:51,840 --> 03:47:55,040
know as much maximum square footage is

5354
03:47:55,040 --> 03:47:59,120
left in their in their lot. Um which

5355
03:47:59,120 --> 03:48:02,080
shows that we care are caring more about

5356
03:48:02,080 --> 03:48:04,399
garages

5357
03:48:04,399 --> 03:48:10,790
and cars than people than people.

5358
03:48:10,800 --> 03:48:13,279
That worries me. So, could you explain

5359
03:48:13,279 --> 03:48:14,319
that comment a little bit?

5360
03:48:14,319 --> 03:48:17,040
>> Sure. So, let's say I'll use my own

5361
03:48:17,040 --> 03:48:18,720
parcel.

5362
03:48:18,720 --> 03:48:22,640
I have 6,000 square feet maximum. My

5363
03:48:22,640 --> 03:48:27,279
mom's house is 3,000 square feet, right?

5364
03:48:27,279 --> 03:48:29,520
I could have built a garage with the

5365
03:48:29,520 --> 03:48:33,120
other square 3,000 square ft.

5366
03:48:33,120 --> 03:48:35,600
>> Right. But I could only build an ADU up

5367
03:48:35,600 --> 03:48:38,560
to,200 square ft.

5368
03:48:38,560 --> 03:48:40,479
>> But you could build three of it.

5369
03:48:40,479 --> 03:48:43,439
>> Now it's changed. Right.

5370
03:48:43,439 --> 03:48:46,960
But before and it still is this way that

5371
03:48:46,960 --> 03:48:49,840
I you can use your square feet for a

5372
03:48:49,840 --> 03:48:53,199
garage but not for an ADU that was you

5373
03:48:53,199 --> 03:48:56,239
know now with three of them right so our

5374
03:48:56,239 --> 03:48:59,359
emphasis which environmentally too is to

5375
03:48:59,359 --> 03:49:02,319
build these really big houses when

5376
03:49:02,319 --> 03:49:04,160
environmentally it's better if you have

5377
03:49:04,160 --> 03:49:07,359
smaller houses with less

5378
03:49:07,359 --> 03:49:09,680
you know right and we're trying to stay

5379
03:49:09,680 --> 03:49:12,080
rural and I get it but we also really

5380
03:49:12,080 --> 03:49:14,239
need to think about environmentally our

5381
03:49:14,239 --> 03:49:16,080
impact

5382
03:49:16,080 --> 03:49:20,239
because smaller houses use less water, a

5383
03:49:20,239 --> 03:49:26,080
less gas, less electricity, right? So by

5384
03:49:26,080 --> 03:49:29,760
allowing people to have these smaller

5385
03:49:29,760 --> 03:49:32,319
options and giving more personal

5386
03:49:32,319 --> 03:49:35,920
property rights too, right, to allow

5387
03:49:35,920 --> 03:49:38,880
these ADUs some more flexibility, I

5388
03:49:38,880 --> 03:49:41,120
think is important.

5389
03:49:41,120 --> 03:49:44,239
So, um, so I just needed to bring some

5390
03:49:44,239 --> 03:49:46,640
of those points up.

5391
03:49:46,640 --> 03:49:49,680
Um, so that's why I would continue to

5392
03:49:49,680 --> 03:49:52,640
push for up to 1500 square ft. You know,

5393
03:49:52,640 --> 03:49:56,319
I don't, you know, that would be my

5394
03:49:56,319 --> 03:49:58,960
personal preference. I also would like

5395
03:49:58,960 --> 03:50:02,160
the height to be the base zoning. Um,

5396
03:50:02,160 --> 03:50:03,920
because

5397
03:50:03,920 --> 03:50:05,920
um, I think the height situation is

5398
03:50:05,920 --> 03:50:12,479
confusing, you know. Um uh

5399
03:50:12,479 --> 03:50:13,359
>> clarify.

5400
03:50:13,359 --> 03:50:14,399
>> Yeah, absolutely.

5401
03:50:14,399 --> 03:50:16,560
>> For the height, you know, we have both

5402
03:50:16,560 --> 03:50:19,199
the detached accessory dwelling unit and

5403
03:50:19,199 --> 03:50:22,239
then the attached. Are you wanting both

5404
03:50:22,239 --> 03:50:24,640
set to the base zoning setback height or

5405
03:50:24,640 --> 03:50:26,239
are you wanting just the attached

5406
03:50:26,239 --> 03:50:28,720
because that is a little bit different.

5407
03:50:28,720 --> 03:50:29,120
Right.

5408
03:50:29,120 --> 03:50:35,199
>> Right. Um what you know um by attached

5409
03:50:35,199 --> 03:50:37,760
those are generally the J AUS or is that

5410
03:50:37,760 --> 03:50:42,560
a is attached not necessarily J AU

5411
03:50:42,560 --> 03:50:44,800
>> attached is not necessarily so JADU is

5412
03:50:44,800 --> 03:50:47,040
conversion of existing space so it's

5413
03:50:47,040 --> 03:50:47,840
already built right

5414
03:50:47,840 --> 03:50:48,239
>> right right

5415
03:50:48,239 --> 03:50:51,439
>> so it is going to be an attached ADU

5416
03:50:51,439 --> 03:50:54,560
under state law is the base zoning

5417
03:50:54,560 --> 03:50:58,239
setback or base zoning district's height

5418
03:50:58,239 --> 03:51:01,600
or 25 ft whichever is less. I think in

5419
03:51:01,600 --> 03:51:04,399
most of our districts we're more than 25

5420
03:51:04,399 --> 03:51:07,040
ft. So I guess that's kind of the

5421
03:51:07,040 --> 03:51:10,800
question for detached you get 16 or 18

5422
03:51:10,800 --> 03:51:12,560
depending on certain situations and you

5423
03:51:12,560 --> 03:51:15,520
can go up to 20 if you hit those other

5424
03:51:15,520 --> 03:51:17,120
things. So and I guess that's the

5425
03:51:17,120 --> 03:51:19,120
question. Do you also want the detached

5426
03:51:19,120 --> 03:51:23,920
up to possibly 28 feet? But is that

5427
03:51:23,920 --> 03:51:27,680
>> right? Okay. So, and maybe um I just

5428
03:51:27,680 --> 03:51:30,319
want I just want the height to be as

5429
03:51:30,319 --> 03:51:34,800
simple as possible. Um so that you know

5430
03:51:34,800 --> 03:51:38,640
that's and I will let staff or other I'd

5431
03:51:38,640 --> 03:51:40,960
love other like I just want it to be

5432
03:51:40,960 --> 03:51:42,960
simpler for people to understand it when

5433
03:51:42,960 --> 03:51:45,359
they look at our code to have more as

5434
03:51:45,359 --> 03:51:48,239
much flexibility as possible. That's my

5435
03:51:48,239 --> 03:51:52,000
goal. Um I personally would include the

5436
03:51:52,000 --> 03:51:54,560
zone zero. it's it's in the pipeline

5437
03:51:54,560 --> 03:51:56,800
like it's going to be state law soon.

5438
03:51:56,800 --> 03:52:01,040
So, um I want the utilities to be noted

5439
03:52:01,040 --> 03:52:04,479
that the town doesn't have jurisdiction.

5440
03:52:04,479 --> 03:52:06,640
Um

5441
03:52:06,640 --> 03:52:10,239
and for safety reasons that were and to

5442
03:52:10,239 --> 03:52:12,720
allow more flexibility, I would have

5443
03:52:12,720 --> 03:52:14,479
requests that two lights at the front

5444
03:52:14,479 --> 03:52:16,000
door should be allowed instead of

5445
03:52:16,000 --> 03:52:18,160
forcing people because they still have

5446
03:52:18,160 --> 03:52:21,520
to be dark sky nights lights, excuse me.

5447
03:52:21,520 --> 03:52:25,120
Um, I would have them um the two so that

5448
03:52:25,120 --> 03:52:27,040
people do not have to go with their ADUs

5449
03:52:27,040 --> 03:52:31,359
to the ASC over a light fixture. So, um,

5450
03:52:31,359 --> 03:52:33,920
I know my mom trying to get my mom into

5451
03:52:33,920 --> 03:52:36,560
my ADU was really hard because the lack

5452
03:52:36,560 --> 03:52:39,520
of light. So, I would respectfully

5453
03:52:39,520 --> 03:52:42,080
request two lights at the front door.

5454
03:52:42,080 --> 03:52:45,359
Okay. Thank you for your consideration.

5455
03:52:45,359 --> 03:52:48,640
Oh, wait. And 1500 square feet. I would

5456
03:52:48,640 --> 03:52:52,720
go, you know, um I'm I also heard my

5457
03:52:52,720 --> 03:52:55,279
colleague, Council Member Flynn, I

5458
03:52:55,279 --> 03:52:57,520
definitely would allow it for larger for

5459
03:52:57,520 --> 03:53:01,600
3.5 acres um because um that that was

5460
03:53:01,600 --> 03:53:03,040
what our previous code. So, I would

5461
03:53:03,040 --> 03:53:06,000
match that and if my other colleagues

5462
03:53:06,000 --> 03:53:09,600
would uh be consider consider 1500, I

5463
03:53:09,600 --> 03:53:11,040
doubt they would, but I definitely would

5464
03:53:11,040 --> 03:53:15,600
do the,200 square feet. So, thank you.

5465
03:53:15,600 --> 03:53:16,880
>> Thank you, Helen.

5466
03:53:16,880 --> 03:53:19,840
Did you pick one, two, three, four?

5467
03:53:19,840 --> 03:53:25,269
>> Two. Thank you,

5468
03:53:25,279 --> 03:53:25,920
» Mary.

5469
03:53:25,920 --> 03:53:27,279
>> Jeez.

5470
03:53:27,279 --> 03:53:31,120
>> Okay, no problem. Uh,

5471
03:53:31,120 --> 03:53:34,399
I'm picking two. Uh, the problem is that

5472
03:53:34,399 --> 03:53:40,000
specific revisions part. Um, I I I I

5473
03:53:40,000 --> 03:53:42,720
liked your your uh indemnification

5474
03:53:42,720 --> 03:53:45,840
additions, Judith. That that sounded

5475
03:53:45,840 --> 03:53:48,560
right to me. I I did have a legal

5476
03:53:48,560 --> 03:53:50,560
question which is I thought gross

5477
03:53:50,560 --> 03:53:53,040
negligence always trumped. I thought if

5478
03:53:53,040 --> 03:53:55,680
you were grossly negligent, you know,

5479
03:53:55,680 --> 03:53:58,560
nothing works. Malpractice, nothing

5480
03:53:58,560 --> 03:54:02,479
worked. You're just grossly negligent.

5481
03:54:02,479 --> 03:54:05,040
Can't blame it on somebody else.

5482
03:54:05,040 --> 03:54:08,479
>> Uh so there's a typical term that's

5483
03:54:08,479 --> 03:54:10,080
included a lot of contractual language.

5484
03:54:10,080 --> 03:54:11,760
I don't have not seen it in code

5485
03:54:11,760 --> 03:54:15,120
language um before but I think we could

5486
03:54:15,120 --> 03:54:17,040
go ahead and put it in there uh because

5487
03:54:17,040 --> 03:54:19,840
as you say it we would the town would

5488
03:54:19,840 --> 03:54:22,560
not be able to get get out of it get the

5489
03:54:22,560 --> 03:54:24,160
identification if they had been grossly

5490
03:54:24,160 --> 03:54:26,399
negligent. So I don't think it actually

5491
03:54:26,399 --> 03:54:28,800
um uh you know hurts the town to put it

5492
03:54:28,800 --> 03:54:29,359
in there.

5493
03:54:29,359 --> 03:54:30,239
>> Yeah.

5494
03:54:30,239 --> 03:54:33,680
>> But does it make a difference

5495
03:54:33,680 --> 03:54:35,199
>> in your opinion?

5496
03:54:35,199 --> 03:54:38,319
>> No. So we could take it out too because

5497
03:54:38,319 --> 03:54:40,000
I thought we already took it out.

5498
03:54:40,000 --> 03:54:43,120
>> It's not currently there.

5499
03:54:43,120 --> 03:54:46,319
>> Well, let let me clarify. I said bad

5500
03:54:46,319 --> 03:54:48,960
acts. I wasn't trying to draft and I

5501
03:54:48,960 --> 03:54:52,160
wasn't thinking gross negligence was was

5502
03:54:52,160 --> 03:54:54,479
everything, right? Um because if we

5503
03:54:54,479 --> 03:54:56,479
really screw up, it's gross negligence

5504
03:54:56,479 --> 03:55:00,720
is a very high standard. So I think if

5505
03:55:00,720 --> 03:55:03,120
you want applicants to feel like we're

5506
03:55:03,120 --> 03:55:06,880
being fair, it it's got to look like

5507
03:55:06,880 --> 03:55:09,760
not gross negligence but something less.

5508
03:55:09,760 --> 03:55:11,760
That's that's where I was coming from if

5509
03:55:11,760 --> 03:55:13,600
I wasn't clear.

5510
03:55:13,600 --> 03:55:14,880
>> Thank you.

5511
03:55:14,880 --> 03:55:15,840
>> So,

5512
03:55:15,840 --> 03:55:19,199
>> okay. Uh specific revisions. Uh you

5513
03:55:19,199 --> 03:55:24,640
know, I I think we should go ahead and ask for that extra cart parking

5514
03:55:24,640 --> 03:55:28,080
space. Uh,

5515
03:55:28,080 --> 03:55:31,520
and I I was actually with the uh 12

5516
03:55:31,520 --> 03:55:36,080
the,000 um the 8501000.

5517
03:55:36,080 --> 03:55:39,359
I don't mean to be jumping on the uh I I

5518
03:55:39,359 --> 03:55:43,040
do know people who tried to build these.

5519
03:55:43,040 --> 03:55:45,520
Um and have been very frustrated by

5520
03:55:45,520 --> 03:55:50,399
trying to stay under that. Um

5521
03:55:50,399 --> 03:55:53,920
and I'm and I I do find it difficult to

5522
03:55:53,920 --> 03:55:56,239
understand the line of where the

5523
03:55:56,239 --> 03:55:58,160
strategy is working against us and

5524
03:55:58,160 --> 03:56:03,040
working for us. Uh so I'm happy to go

5525
03:56:03,040 --> 03:56:07,600
along with further discussion on this uh

5526
03:56:07,600 --> 03:56:10,479
so we can get this so we can go ahead

5527
03:56:10,479 --> 03:56:13,520
and u make this part of the of the

5528
03:56:13,520 --> 03:56:16,319
motion. So I'm not helping very much.

5529
03:56:16,319 --> 03:56:18,560
Um,

5530
03:56:18,560 --> 03:56:22,479
Craig, could I just voluntarily list the

5531
03:56:22,479 --> 03:56:24,640
open points that I've heard and I I'm

5532
03:56:24,640 --> 03:56:25,840
going to only get some of them because

5533
03:56:25,840 --> 03:56:29,439
it might help Mary kind of see if she

5534
03:56:29,439 --> 03:56:32,319
wants to weigh in on others because I

5535
03:56:32,319 --> 03:56:33,840
>> Well, I I tell you what, why don't you

5536
03:56:33,840 --> 03:56:35,439
let me do that? Yeah. You think that

5537
03:56:35,439 --> 03:56:36,160
would help her? So,

5538
03:56:36,160 --> 03:56:38,000
>> I I think it would help to You're going

5539
03:56:38,000 --> 03:56:39,359
to go ahead.

5540
03:56:39,359 --> 03:56:41,279
>> Well, yeah, I was going to as well, but

5541
03:56:41,279 --> 03:56:43,760
Well, no. I mean, so I think what Judith

5542
03:56:43,760 --> 03:56:45,760
is asking is the things that are on the

5543
03:56:45,760 --> 03:56:48,399
table right now is there's a a question

5544
03:56:48,399 --> 03:56:51,359
of whether we remove the P um being

5545
03:56:51,359 --> 03:56:53,359
charged back to the applicant. There's a

5546
03:56:53,359 --> 03:56:55,359
question about whether we find some way

5547
03:56:55,359 --> 03:56:57,760
to craft the town negligent so that the

5548
03:56:57,760 --> 03:56:59,439
applicant's not responsible for town

5549
03:56:59,439 --> 03:57:01,040
negligence, not necessarily gross

5550
03:57:01,040 --> 03:57:03,120
negligence, but some kind of negligence.

5551
03:57:03,120 --> 03:57:08,239
Um Rebecca's um suggested 850 um 101000

5552
03:57:08,239 --> 03:57:10,800
um and the parking and then had a

5553
03:57:10,800 --> 03:57:12,800
question about whether we could require

5554
03:57:12,800 --> 03:57:16,960
undergrounding. Pelen is requesting 1500

5555
03:57:16,960 --> 03:57:20,640
um and a um height which is base zone

5556
03:57:20,640 --> 03:57:22,479
utilities which is as I understood it

5557
03:57:22,479 --> 03:57:25,279
just listing that's electrical and water

5558
03:57:25,279 --> 03:57:28,160
etc not specific utilities um and two

5559
03:57:28,160 --> 03:57:30,640
lights and then you were saying that you

5560
03:57:30,640 --> 03:57:32,720
want to stay with 851000 and the

5561
03:57:32,720 --> 03:57:35,120
parking. So I I think that's the summary

5562
03:57:35,120 --> 03:57:36,880
that I've gotten so far.

5563
03:57:36,880 --> 03:57:39,359
>> Can I add education fees?

5564
03:57:39,359 --> 03:57:43,910
>> Um sure.

5565
03:57:43,920 --> 03:57:47,040
I don't even know what education.

5566
03:57:47,040 --> 03:57:47,520
>> Okay.

5567
03:57:47,520 --> 03:57:49,120
>> Do you mean I'm sorry. Do you mean the

5568
03:57:49,120 --> 03:57:52,960
impact fees for the education fees?

5569
03:57:52,960 --> 03:58:08,630
But they're

5570
03:58:08,640 --> 03:58:11,439
» And could I ask I mean so Brandon, could

5571
03:58:11,439 --> 03:58:13,520
you speak to what what is this education

5572
03:58:13,520 --> 03:58:15,439
fees thing?

5573
03:58:15,439 --> 03:58:17,520
Yeah, it's just the authorizing language

5574
03:58:17,520 --> 03:58:20,000
that establishes the thresholds for when

5575
03:58:20,000 --> 03:58:22,479
education fees can be applied that are

5576
03:58:22,479 --> 03:58:25,279
applied by the school district. Um, and

5577
03:58:25,279 --> 03:58:26,880
I'm pulling up uh Katherine, what

5578
03:58:26,880 --> 03:58:28,080
section did you say it was again? I'm

5579
03:58:28,080 --> 03:58:29,680
trying to pull up the exact language.

5580
03:58:29,680 --> 03:58:33,750
663

5581
03:58:33,760 --> 03:58:37,359
» except so that is for at 500 square feet

5582
03:58:37,359 --> 03:58:40,080
which is generally a

5583
03:58:40,080 --> 03:58:42,800
studio the size of a studio and most

5584
03:58:42,800 --> 03:58:46,000
studios like respectfully don't folks

5585
03:58:46,000 --> 03:58:47,760
that live in studios don't usually have

5586
03:58:47,760 --> 03:58:54,309
kids around here.

5587
03:58:54,319 --> 03:58:56,319
So it it's

5588
03:58:56,319 --> 03:58:58,319
my understanding the request is to do

5589
03:58:58,319 --> 03:58:59,520
similar like we're doing for the

5590
03:58:59,520 --> 03:59:01,439
utilities where we're just saying you

5591
03:59:01,439 --> 03:59:04,640
need to follow it. Um even though and

5592
03:59:04,640 --> 03:59:06,080
that's definitely something an easy

5593
03:59:06,080 --> 03:59:07,920
provision we can just add in we'll just

5594
03:59:07,920 --> 03:59:10,239
give the exact citation as it's written

5595
03:59:10,239 --> 03:59:12,800
in the the or in the government code.

5596
03:59:12,800 --> 03:59:13,760
>> Yeah. I'm just trying to be

5597
03:59:13,760 --> 03:59:15,600
comprehensive so that all the utilities

5598
03:59:15,600 --> 03:59:17,680
all the every organization that they

5599
03:59:17,680 --> 03:59:19,680
have to deal with is at least

5600
03:59:19,680 --> 03:59:24,710
acknowledged.

5601
03:59:24,720 --> 03:59:27,600
How about u the light the double light

5602
03:59:27,600 --> 03:59:29,359
on the

5603
03:59:29,359 --> 03:59:30,800
>> Did you get that down there?

5604
03:59:30,800 --> 03:59:31,840
>> I did. I mentioned.

5605
03:59:31,840 --> 03:59:33,760
>> Oh, good. Great. Okay.

5606
03:59:33,760 --> 03:59:35,279
>> So, but now it's back to you. Do you

5607
03:59:35,279 --> 03:59:36,560
have anything else you want to add to

5608
03:59:36,560 --> 03:59:37,680
your No.

5609
03:59:37,680 --> 03:59:42,150
>> Okay. Great. Thank you. All right.

5610
03:59:42,160 --> 03:59:42,479
» Okay.

5611
03:59:42,479 --> 03:59:44,720
>> Didn't we say something? Didn't we throw

5612
03:59:44,720 --> 03:59:47,040
something in there about trails? I we we

5613
03:59:47,040 --> 03:59:48,960
weren't able to throw anything in about

5614
03:59:48,960 --> 03:59:49,840
trails.

5615
03:59:49,840 --> 03:59:51,920
>> No. What if there's a trail easement,

5616
03:59:51,920 --> 03:59:53,520
you can't build on it, but we can't

5617
03:59:53,520 --> 03:59:56,399
require setbacks off of that trail

5618
03:59:56,399 --> 03:59:58,160
easement. That's that was the

5619
03:59:58,160 --> 03:59:58,880
conclusion.

5620
03:59:58,880 --> 04:00:02,000
>> Jesus from those earlier questions would

5621
04:00:02,000 --> 04:00:04,479
be the scenic corridor is saying that

5622
04:00:04,479 --> 04:00:06,239
that's part of the front setback when it

5623
04:00:06,239 --> 04:00:07,359
applies.

5624
04:00:07,359 --> 04:00:09,040
>> But again, it's still that caveat that

5625
04:00:09,040 --> 04:00:11,199
we can't restrict a unit to under 800

5626
04:00:11,199 --> 04:00:13,120
square feet. So, we could add that

5627
04:00:13,120 --> 04:00:14,960
caveat in

5628
04:00:14,960 --> 04:00:16,880
>> um because the scenic corridor is what

5629
04:00:16,880 --> 04:00:17,840
75.

5630
04:00:17,840 --> 04:00:18,399
>> Yeah,

5631
04:00:18,399 --> 04:00:19,120
>> correct. Y

5632
04:00:19,120 --> 04:00:21,120
>> So we could request that as part of the

5633
04:00:21,120 --> 04:00:23,600
like front setback discussion, but again

5634
04:00:23,600 --> 04:00:25,600
that would only apply to the units

5635
04:00:25,600 --> 04:00:28,080
authorized under our ordinance.

5636
04:00:28,080 --> 04:00:30,880
>> So that's the up to, you know, 1,200 as

5637
04:00:30,880 --> 04:00:33,279
currently proposed. It wouldn't apply to

5638
04:00:33,279 --> 04:00:36,000
the state exempt unit,

5639
04:00:36,000 --> 04:00:36,960
>> right?

5640
04:00:36,960 --> 04:00:41,120
>> How about conservation easements?

5641
04:00:41,120 --> 04:00:44,080
That one is a unique one

5642
04:00:44,080 --> 04:00:45,840
and I would have to default to Katherine

5643
04:00:45,840 --> 04:00:48,080
on how the state law plays with that

5644
04:00:48,080 --> 04:00:50,479
because there is not really discussion

5645
04:00:50,479 --> 04:00:54,000
in the ordinance of that or in state law

5646
04:00:54,000 --> 04:00:56,000
of that

5647
04:00:56,000 --> 04:00:58,160
>> nice generally. Well, go ahead.

5648
04:00:58,160 --> 04:00:59,680
>> Well, I was I would try to say this

5649
04:00:59,680 --> 04:01:01,680
trail then it would it would likely

5650
04:01:01,680 --> 04:01:04,479
include a no build provision in the

5651
04:01:04,479 --> 04:01:05,199
conservation.

5652
04:01:05,199 --> 04:01:08,560
>> Oh. Oh, yeah. It sure does. the and I

5653
04:01:08,560 --> 04:01:10,000
think Katherine this is where we need to

5654
04:01:10,000 --> 04:01:12,160
do more research is state law does

5655
04:01:12,160 --> 04:01:15,120
prohibit any outright restrictions that

5656
04:01:15,120 --> 04:01:17,840
would never allow an ADU so if the con

5657
04:01:17,840 --> 04:01:19,680
for an example of the conservation

5658
04:01:19,680 --> 04:01:23,120
easement full site that could be an

5659
04:01:23,120 --> 04:01:25,680
issue because we can't facilitate an ADU

5660
04:01:25,680 --> 04:01:28,720
the state exempt ones so that might be

5661
04:01:28,720 --> 04:01:30,560
an example but I I would have to default

5662
04:01:30,560 --> 04:01:32,479
and we would have to read the state law

5663
04:01:32,479 --> 04:01:36,389
more on that

5664
04:01:36,399 --> 04:01:40,399
Okay, thank you. Um, so I guess where I

5665
04:01:40,399 --> 04:01:43,359
come down on this is I would prefer the

5666
04:01:43,359 --> 04:01:46,560
P stay in, but we use May so that

5667
04:01:46,560 --> 04:01:48,080
there's some discretion because I think

5668
04:01:48,080 --> 04:01:50,160
there can be if the applicants doing

5669
04:01:50,160 --> 04:01:52,080
crazy stuff and they're driving their

5670
04:01:52,080 --> 04:01:53,760
neighbors wild, I'm pretty happy to have

5671
04:01:53,760 --> 04:01:55,920
them pay for it. On the other hand, I

5672
04:01:55,920 --> 04:01:58,479
think it's reasonable that the town can

5673
04:01:58,479 --> 04:02:01,840
say or or the council that, you know,

5674
04:02:01,840 --> 04:02:03,680
look, this really isn't their fault and

5675
04:02:03,680 --> 04:02:06,080
we really should cover it. Um, so I

5676
04:02:06,080 --> 04:02:07,920
actually prefer the may versus removing

5677
04:02:07,920 --> 04:02:10,560
it. Um, the negligence, I will leave

5678
04:02:10,560 --> 04:02:12,800
that to the lawyers. I appreciate Jud's

5679
04:02:12,800 --> 04:02:15,040
point, so I'm I'm generally okay with

5680
04:02:15,040 --> 04:02:17,600
it. Um, I I just don't want the language

5681
04:02:17,600 --> 04:02:19,120
to get too complicated. I want it to be

5682
04:02:19,120 --> 04:02:20,800
something people can read, but I get

5683
04:02:20,800 --> 04:02:25,199
that. I would go with 1,200. Um, and I

5684
04:02:25,199 --> 04:02:26,640
say that because we had, you know, back

5685
04:02:26,640 --> 04:02:27,760
when I was on the planning commission,

5686
04:02:27,760 --> 04:02:29,199
we had a long discussion about making

5687
04:02:29,199 --> 04:02:31,359
these units large enough so that

5688
04:02:31,359 --> 04:02:32,960
somebody could move out of their big

5689
04:02:32,960 --> 04:02:34,720
residence and move into the small one,

5690
04:02:34,720 --> 04:02:36,160
which is actually why we originally

5691
04:02:36,160 --> 04:02:38,640
provided the 1500. Um, but given all

5692
04:02:38,640 --> 04:02:40,560
this ministerial stuff, I'm a little

5693
04:02:40,560 --> 04:02:42,399
uncomfortable because before we had some

5694
04:02:42,399 --> 04:02:45,279
more jurisdiction over what they did and

5695
04:02:45,279 --> 04:02:46,560
the setbacks and stuff, we don't have

5696
04:02:46,560 --> 04:02:48,160
anymore. So, but but I would still go

5697
04:02:48,160 --> 04:02:50,080
with,200 since that was recommended by

5698
04:02:50,080 --> 04:02:52,560
the planning commission. I I would leave

5699
04:02:52,560 --> 04:02:54,640
the parking not required. I think we're

5700
04:02:54,640 --> 04:02:57,840
making it too complicated. And I I don't

5701
04:02:57,840 --> 04:02:58,960
know if we're going to get the weird

5702
04:02:58,960 --> 04:03:00,800
case where somebody wants to grade, you

5703
04:03:00,800 --> 04:03:05,120
know, plow something up the hill. But I just it doesn't seem like it affects

5704
04:03:05,120 --> 04:03:07,760
enough places because most of these we

5705
04:03:07,760 --> 04:03:09,279
have no choice anyway. If people want to

5706
04:03:09,279 --> 04:03:10,479
park in the street, there's a bunch of

5707
04:03:10,479 --> 04:03:12,319
them. We have zero ability to control

5708
04:03:12,319 --> 04:03:14,560
that anyway. So now we're down to, you

5709
04:03:14,560 --> 04:03:17,439
know, maybe we can have this for one in

5710
04:03:17,439 --> 04:03:19,359
the next 10 years. I I guess I don't

5711
04:03:19,359 --> 04:03:21,600
care. I'd keep it simple. So, I wouldn't

5712
04:03:21,600 --> 04:03:24,239
go for the parking. Um, the

5713
04:03:24,239 --> 04:03:26,000
undergrounding,

5714
04:03:26,000 --> 04:03:27,920
I'm neutral. I I don't understand really

5715
04:03:27,920 --> 04:03:29,600
what the issue here. I, you know, this

5716
04:03:29,600 --> 04:03:31,120
sounds like this is an interpretation of

5717
04:03:31,120 --> 04:03:33,199
law. I certainly don't want to get sued.

5718
04:03:33,199 --> 04:03:34,160
So, if we think there's a high

5719
04:03:34,160 --> 04:03:36,640
likelihood of being sued, then maybe we

5720
04:03:36,640 --> 04:03:39,840
should reconsider, but generally, I'd

5721
04:03:39,840 --> 04:03:43,120
leave it as is. the educational fees. If

5722
04:03:43,120 --> 04:03:45,279
we can put in something short along with

5723
04:03:45,279 --> 04:03:48,000
utilities just saying that by the way

5724
04:03:48,000 --> 04:03:50,000
there are fees and here are some of

5725
04:03:50,000 --> 04:03:51,600
them. I just don't want to get into

5726
04:03:51,600 --> 04:03:54,000
enumerating exactly what all the fees

5727
04:03:54,000 --> 04:03:55,840
are and who might charge them and and

5728
04:03:55,840 --> 04:03:57,600
how they charge them. That seems like

5729
04:03:57,600 --> 04:04:01,040
the wrong thing for the ordinance. Um so

5730
04:04:01,040 --> 04:04:02,880
that's where I stand on that one. The

5731
04:04:02,880 --> 04:04:06,880
lights I'm a night sky guy. I I'm not a

5732
04:04:06,880 --> 04:04:08,560
fan. I'd like to find other ways to

5733
04:04:08,560 --> 04:04:10,319
solve the lights. So I I don't think I

5734
04:04:10,319 --> 04:04:12,880
would go for that. So I think that

5735
04:04:12,880 --> 04:04:15,199
covers what my fellow council members

5736
04:04:15,199 --> 04:04:16,319
have brought up. Oh, and then there's

5737
04:04:16,319 --> 04:04:17,840
the scenic setback that you just

5738
04:04:17,840 --> 04:04:19,680
mentioned. I would actually go for that.

5739
04:04:19,680 --> 04:04:21,520
Um I think that that's worth putting in.

5740
04:04:21,520 --> 04:04:24,239
Like we value that scenic corridor and I

5741
04:04:24,239 --> 04:04:25,920
get it's not perfect. It's not a perfect

5742
04:04:25,920 --> 04:04:29,199
solution, but it's better than leaving

5743
04:04:29,199 --> 04:04:31,439
it wide open. So I I think that's an

5744
04:04:31,439 --> 04:04:33,680
incremental value.

5745
04:04:33,680 --> 04:04:35,600
And then overall, I would say thank you.

5746
04:04:35,600 --> 04:04:36,720
I mean, this has been a great

5747
04:04:36,720 --> 04:04:38,640
presentation. I know it's super long and

5748
04:04:38,640 --> 04:04:40,399
it's super late, but but you guys have

5749
04:04:40,399 --> 04:04:42,239
provided a huge amount of details. So,

5750
04:04:42,239 --> 04:04:43,920
thank you. And I would really look

5751
04:04:43,920 --> 04:04:46,239
forward to an applicant handout and

5752
04:04:46,239 --> 04:04:47,520
these objective standards, and I know

5753
04:04:47,520 --> 04:04:51,199
they're not going to happen tomorrow. I get all that, but but I I think those

5754
04:04:51,199 --> 04:04:52,800
are what's going to lock this in and

5755
04:04:52,800 --> 04:04:55,120
make it so it's back to being what we

5756
04:04:55,120 --> 04:04:58,399
think port we as Portola Valley value.

5757
04:04:58,399 --> 04:05:01,040
So, so that's going to be key. So, with

5758
04:05:01,040 --> 04:05:03,040
all that said,

5759
04:05:03,040 --> 04:05:05,120
um

5760
04:05:05,120 --> 04:05:07,439
I'm going to make a proposal and then pe

5761
04:05:07,439 --> 04:05:10,399
push back. Um

5762
04:05:10,399 --> 04:05:15,520
depending on how strongly you feel just to try to get these things blended

5763
04:05:15,520 --> 04:05:19,359
together. Um I would recommend the May

5764
04:05:19,359 --> 04:05:22,720
and the P. Um and again, I'm I'm open.

5765
04:05:22,720 --> 04:05:24,000
This is for discussion. I'm just trying

5766
04:05:24,000 --> 04:05:26,239
to put a straw horse out there. So, we

5767
04:05:26,239 --> 04:05:28,800
do a May, we do the town negligence,

5768
04:05:28,800 --> 04:05:30,880
which is going to need some language.

5769
04:05:30,880 --> 04:05:32,560
Um,

5770
04:05:32,560 --> 04:05:34,960
I would go for 1,200.

5771
04:05:34,960 --> 04:05:37,600
I would go for no parking right now. I'm

5772
04:05:37,600 --> 04:05:39,680
not going to go with this Calousing. Um,

5773
04:05:39,680 --> 04:05:43,439
I would go with this utilities

5774
04:05:43,439 --> 04:05:47,120
being somehow lightly listed.

5775
04:05:47,120 --> 04:05:49,840
Um,

5776
04:05:49,840 --> 04:05:53,840
and 1500 and then the scenic corridor.

5777
04:05:53,840 --> 04:05:58,790
And I think that captures

5778
04:05:58,800 --> 04:05:59,680
what I

5779
04:05:59,680 --> 04:06:02,080
>> ask a question to Catherine. Yeah. Is it

5780
04:06:02,080 --> 04:06:03,439
possible once you guys have the

5781
04:06:03,439 --> 04:06:05,680
discussion on this that they table the

5782
04:06:05,680 --> 04:06:07,680
item so that we can quickly write the

5783
04:06:07,680 --> 04:06:09,600
language that they're specifically

5784
04:06:09,600 --> 04:06:11,600
asking? Yeah. You can go on to your next

5785
04:06:11,600 --> 04:06:14,319
item and then unt us and then we can

5786
04:06:14,319 --> 04:06:16,000
give you that specific language that

5787
04:06:16,000 --> 04:06:17,840
you're looking for because I do think it

5788
04:06:17,840 --> 04:06:20,319
might take a few moments for us to write

5789
04:06:20,319 --> 04:06:21,040
it all out for you.

5790
04:06:21,040 --> 04:06:22,160
>> Yeah. Thank you. And I was going to get

5791
04:06:22,160 --> 04:06:24,479
back to that like okay if we I f the

5792
04:06:24,479 --> 04:06:26,000
first thing is for the council to see if

5793
04:06:26,000 --> 04:06:28,800
we can come to a conclusion on a single

5794
04:06:28,800 --> 04:06:30,800
thing otherwise you guys will have no

5795
04:06:30,800 --> 04:06:32,720
direction and then Katherine the next

5796
04:06:32,720 --> 04:06:36,399
question is I if we

5797
04:06:36,399 --> 04:06:38,960
basically table this to use a light word

5798
04:06:38,960 --> 04:06:42,000
here and then go on to the next item and

5799
04:06:42,000 --> 04:06:44,560
come back to this to finish up is that

5800
04:06:44,560 --> 04:06:46,319
seem reasonable

5801
04:06:46,319 --> 04:06:48,080
>> I think so although I want to be part of

5802
04:06:48,080 --> 04:06:51,199
the next item and so Um,

5803
04:06:51,199 --> 04:06:54,479
we could take a break. Um, or if you

5804
04:06:54,479 --> 04:06:55,920
wanted to perhaps do the end of the

5805
04:06:55,920 --> 04:06:58,239
agenda, the council leaison reports if

5806
04:06:58,239 --> 04:07:00,720
you want to keep moving on that. Um, I

5807
04:07:00,720 --> 04:07:02,399
don't think I'm muted there. Right.

5808
04:07:02,399 --> 04:07:04,160
>> But I I do want to be part of the next

5809
04:07:04,160 --> 04:07:04,880
item. So,

5810
04:07:04,880 --> 04:07:06,399
>> Sure. Yeah. And I know you you need to

5811
04:07:06,399 --> 04:07:08,399
be part of of some of the next items.

5812
04:07:08,399 --> 04:07:10,399
So, okay. Um, all right. So, let's go

5813
04:07:10,399 --> 04:07:12,160
back to this. So, I've tried to put

5814
04:07:12,160 --> 04:07:14,880
something on the table. Is this close

5815
04:07:14,880 --> 04:07:16,399
enough to let us move forward for

5816
04:07:16,399 --> 04:07:18,399
tonight or do people strongly object to

5817
04:07:18,399 --> 04:07:22,080
this? Um, I need the Calousing situation

5818
04:07:22,080 --> 04:07:25,840
resolved because if that's not to code,

5819
04:07:25,840 --> 04:07:29,040
that absolutely has to be corrected. So,

5820
04:07:29,040 --> 04:07:31,040
um, whatever time you need to actually

5821
04:07:31,040 --> 04:07:33,680
read through that, that absolutely needs

5822
04:07:33,680 --> 04:07:36,560
to be resolved. Um, because we cannot

5823
04:07:36,560 --> 04:07:41,600
require undergrounding for 66323. So um

5824
04:07:41,600 --> 04:07:43,520
if there's language required to change

5825
04:07:43,520 --> 04:07:45,680
in there simple then it absolutely has

5826
04:07:45,680 --> 04:07:46,560
to be

5827
04:07:46,560 --> 04:07:48,640
>> I if you know that is the direction I

5828
04:07:48,640 --> 04:07:50,560
think that's easy we can just add in

5829
04:07:50,560 --> 04:07:53,359
except for units that are created per

5830
04:07:53,359 --> 04:07:56,720
government code section 6 323. So that

5831
04:07:56,720 --> 04:07:59,199
is a pretty easy edit for staff if that

5832
04:07:59,199 --> 04:08:01,040
is the majority direction.

5833
04:08:01,040 --> 04:08:02,479
>> So Rebecca would that be good enough

5834
04:08:02,479 --> 04:08:04,399
would be just added that exception.

5835
04:08:04,399 --> 04:08:07,279
>> Okay. Um, just to clarify on the zone

5836
04:08:07,279 --> 04:08:09,520
zero situation, does that mean the

5837
04:08:09,520 --> 04:08:11,279
setback would be five feet? Is that

5838
04:08:11,279 --> 04:08:12,399
where you're thinking that's going to go

5839
04:08:12,399 --> 04:08:14,960
or would that be a building code thing

5840
04:08:14,960 --> 04:08:17,120
if we had you had said Helen, you had

5841
04:08:17,120 --> 04:08:18,800
talked about a zone zero?

5842
04:08:18,800 --> 04:08:21,600
>> Oh, um, no, that's for around the zone

5843
04:08:21,600 --> 04:08:24,880
zero is for around the AUS. Yeah.

5844
04:08:24,880 --> 04:08:26,160
>> I'm just wondering if it's four feet

5845
04:08:26,160 --> 04:08:27,840
from a wooden fence

5846
04:08:27,840 --> 04:08:29,600
>> at the property line, what happens then?

5847
04:08:29,600 --> 04:08:30,080
What?

5848
04:08:30,080 --> 04:08:32,000
>> So, can I suggest that we not include

5849
04:08:32,000 --> 04:08:34,800
that in zoning? it it's part of the fire

5850
04:08:34,800 --> 04:08:37,040
vegetation already. So it it we've

5851
04:08:37,040 --> 04:08:38,160
already said it's going to get trumped

5852
04:08:38,160 --> 04:08:39,920
by them. So I think that was Brandon's

5853
04:08:39,920 --> 04:08:41,359
whole point is let's not put things in

5854
04:08:41,359 --> 04:08:43,199
the zoning that are building and fire

5855
04:08:43,199 --> 04:08:44,479
restrictions and this is a fire

5856
04:08:44,479 --> 04:08:45,760
restriction. That's fine.

5857
04:08:45,760 --> 04:08:47,920
>> Yeah. Okay. So Okay. So I've got your

5858
04:08:47,920 --> 04:08:50,000
undergrounding exception and Brandon

5859
04:08:50,000 --> 04:08:52,479
thinks he can do that. Um,

5860
04:08:52,479 --> 04:08:55,680
>> in terms and then do we have I mean when

5861
04:08:55,680 --> 04:08:57,600
you say you're a dark sky person

5862
04:08:57,600 --> 04:08:59,760
recognize that the front lights you

5863
04:08:59,760 --> 04:09:02,319
still we still are required to do dark

5864
04:09:02,319 --> 04:09:03,920
sky lighting.

5865
04:09:03,920 --> 04:09:06,640
>> I understand but two lights is

5866
04:09:06,640 --> 04:09:08,640
>> it's like on either side of the door

5867
04:09:08,640 --> 04:09:11,600
>> would you have the lumens in each one?

5868
04:09:11,600 --> 04:09:13,840
>> I mean because it gets about to me it's

5869
04:09:13,840 --> 04:09:15,600
about lumens at the end of the day.

5870
04:09:15,600 --> 04:09:16,160
though

5871
04:09:16,160 --> 04:09:18,960
>> you could, if I may. For example,

5872
04:09:18,960 --> 04:09:21,279
garages, we do allow two, but there's a

5873
04:09:21,279 --> 04:09:23,439
restriction on maximum lumens of those

5874
04:09:23,439 --> 04:09:25,920
two lights combined. We if the if the

5875
04:09:25,920 --> 04:09:27,439
council's interested in that, we could

5876
04:09:27,439 --> 04:09:29,279
add that as a same standard for front

5877
04:09:29,279 --> 04:09:32,160
doors for ADUs if that's what you're

5878
04:09:32,160 --> 04:09:32,720
thinking.

5879
04:09:32,720 --> 04:09:34,239
>> Right. But do we have a linen standard

5880
04:09:34,239 --> 04:09:34,720
for

5881
04:09:34,720 --> 04:09:35,520
>> Yes.

5882
04:09:35,520 --> 04:09:39,040
>> Okay. I mean, okay. I I I

5883
04:09:39,040 --> 04:09:41,600
>> And the reality is the ASUC has approved

5884
04:09:41,600 --> 04:09:43,840
every single one of those for the past

5885
04:09:43,840 --> 04:09:45,439
well the entire year and a half or

5886
04:09:45,439 --> 04:09:46,640
whatever I was on.

5887
04:09:46,640 --> 04:09:50,000
>> Did they do lumen?

5888
04:09:50,000 --> 04:09:51,680
>> Okay. All right. So, I added that.

5889
04:09:51,680 --> 04:09:53,359
Judith, how how are you on this? I'm

5890
04:09:53,359 --> 04:09:54,720
just trying to get us to resolution. I

5891
04:09:54,720 --> 04:09:56,000
know it's not exactly what you asked

5892
04:09:56,000 --> 04:09:56,880
for, but

5893
04:09:56,880 --> 04:09:59,600
>> yeah, I Well, you might prefer to

5894
04:09:59,600 --> 04:10:01,600
bifurcate on the indemnity. I'm still

5895
04:10:01,600 --> 04:10:04,399
not there. Um, so you you could do what

5896
04:10:04,399 --> 04:10:06,000
the planning commission did, and I can

5897
04:10:06,000 --> 04:10:10,479
just vote against that. um the 1,200

5898
04:10:10,479 --> 04:10:14,080
versus a,000. I get you're you're you're

5899
04:10:14,080 --> 04:10:17,680
generally um in the range. I had started

5900
04:10:17,680 --> 04:10:20,080
down the route of agreeing with the 850

5901
04:10:20,080 --> 04:10:22,640
to a,000 to be honest because so little

5902
04:10:22,640 --> 04:10:27,040
is in our our control and and the size

5903
04:10:27,040 --> 04:10:30,000
of the buildings 4T up is a different

5904
04:10:30,000 --> 04:10:34,319
skeptic. So if if other members were,

5905
04:10:34,319 --> 04:10:36,800
you know, on board with a a thousand, I

5906
04:10:36,800 --> 04:10:39,199
would go there. But that's, you know,

5907
04:10:39,199 --> 04:10:41,920
I'm flexible on that. Um I'm okay with

5908
04:10:41,920 --> 04:10:45,680
the scenic setback, no parking required,

5909
04:10:45,680 --> 04:10:46,800
whatever the exception for

5910
04:10:46,800 --> 04:10:50,239
undergrounding is. So, you know, I'm

5911
04:10:50,239 --> 04:10:51,760
largely there. Let me know if I missed

5912
04:10:51,760 --> 04:10:52,560
anything. All right.

5913
04:10:52,560 --> 04:10:55,840
>> So, we're not no parking.

5914
04:10:55,840 --> 04:10:58,000
>> I that's that's that's the proposal. I

5915
04:10:58,000 --> 04:11:00,000
just said it it's it it's on the margin

5916
04:11:00,000 --> 04:11:01,600
and I was willing to keep it simple to

5917
04:11:01,600 --> 04:11:03,439
move us along tonight. Um

5918
04:11:03,439 --> 04:11:05,439
>> so I I would like to ask the question if

5919
04:11:05,439 --> 04:11:08,479
we went with the 850 1000

5920
04:11:08,479 --> 04:11:10,239
do any of the because isn't that state

5921
04:11:10,239 --> 04:11:11,680
requirement at that point? Like can do

5922
04:11:11,680 --> 04:11:13,359
we still get our objective standards and

5923
04:11:13,359 --> 04:11:14,800
the AMFA? Okay.

5924
04:11:14,800 --> 04:11:17,520
>> It's just Yes, you still get that for

5925
04:11:17,520 --> 04:11:20,239
the uh the units authorized by ours.

5926
04:11:20,239 --> 04:11:20,560
>> Okay.

5927
04:11:20,560 --> 04:11:22,560
>> It's just it's the you're closer to the

5928
04:11:22,560 --> 04:11:23,600
800 limit,

5929
04:11:23,600 --> 04:11:24,000
>> right?

5930
04:11:24,000 --> 04:11:25,680
>> Which is where we have to start

5931
04:11:25,680 --> 04:11:27,600
>> which is the three. Yeah. Got it. Okay.

5932
04:11:27,600 --> 04:11:29,600
So, where do people stand? I mean, I

5933
04:11:29,600 --> 04:11:30,880
made a proposal of 12.

5934
04:11:30,880 --> 04:11:32,160
>> I am fine with 12,200.

5935
04:11:32,160 --> 04:11:33,520
>> Okay. So, you're good with 12. I'm good

5936
04:11:33,520 --> 04:11:34,160
with 12.

5937
04:11:34,160 --> 04:11:35,279
>> And that's is in

5938
04:11:35,279 --> 04:11:37,760
>> Can I just ask about the 1,200? If we

5939
04:11:37,760 --> 04:11:40,960
didn't have it and we were 1,850 and

5940
04:11:40,960 --> 04:11:43,199
someone wanted a 1,200, did they have

5941
04:11:43,199 --> 04:11:46,160
any recourse to request it? Can they go

5942
04:11:46,160 --> 04:11:48,720
through ASC? Can they come to the T? And

5943
04:11:48,720 --> 04:11:51,520
is there any other recourse?

5944
04:11:51,520 --> 04:11:55,520
how the state has the the state law

5945
04:11:55,520 --> 04:11:59,120
worded is that ADUs have to be processed

5946
04:11:59,120 --> 04:12:02,800
in this and with a 4 foot sided rear.

5947
04:12:02,800 --> 04:12:05,840
So, and this is where you know we've had

5948
04:12:05,840 --> 04:12:08,399
the conversation of well if we allow if

5949
04:12:08,399 --> 04:12:10,000
we we can go up to 1500 with the

5950
04:12:10,000 --> 04:12:11,199
increased step back but you got to go

5951
04:12:11,199 --> 04:12:13,359
through ASC. The state said no if it's

5952
04:12:13,359 --> 04:12:15,520
an ADU it's a ministerial process

5953
04:12:15,520 --> 04:12:18,160
period. they could technically apply

5954
04:12:18,160 --> 04:12:21,120
maybe under SB9 for something slightly

5955
04:12:21,120 --> 04:12:24,080
larger than that because SB9 defaults

5956
04:12:24,080 --> 04:12:26,000
again back to AMFA but without

5957
04:12:26,000 --> 04:12:28,239
necessarily the same size limitations

5958
04:12:28,239 --> 04:12:30,720
that we have. So that could be a

5959
04:12:30,720 --> 04:12:31,279
mechanism

5960
04:12:31,279 --> 04:12:32,160
>> setback.

5961
04:12:32,160 --> 04:12:32,960
>> SP9.

5962
04:12:32,960 --> 04:12:34,720
>> So might want to use your mic.

5963
04:12:34,720 --> 04:12:35,279
>> No reason.

5964
04:12:35,279 --> 04:12:38,960
>> Do they have SP? Do SP9s have setbacks?

5965
04:12:38,960 --> 04:12:42,000
>> They have. And it's been amended to

5966
04:12:42,000 --> 04:12:44,399
setbacks as AD8s.

5967
04:12:44,399 --> 04:12:46,479
>> So it's the 4 foot side and rear. We can

5968
04:12:46,479 --> 04:12:48,000
still talk.

5969
04:12:48,000 --> 04:12:48,960
>> So right

5970
04:12:48,960 --> 04:12:51,840
>> another way to get ADUs. And it's funny

5971
04:12:51,840 --> 04:12:55,279
because SP9 actually says you it it

5972
04:12:55,279 --> 04:12:57,520
almost says you can't do the five units

5973
04:12:57,520 --> 04:13:00,640
for ADUs because it limits it to maximum

5974
04:13:00,640 --> 04:13:02,239
four. So if they did that they would

5975
04:13:02,239 --> 04:13:03,920
actually only get four units. If you do

5976
04:13:03,920 --> 04:13:05,760
an SB9, you can only ever have four

5977
04:13:05,760 --> 04:13:07,680
units. You don't get the allowance for

5978
04:13:07,680 --> 04:13:12,080
the five technically under ADU law.

5979
04:13:12,080 --> 04:13:13,120
>> Okay. So

5980
04:13:13,120 --> 04:13:15,920
>> so that therefore you're encouraging SP9

5981
04:13:15,920 --> 04:13:18,479
lot splits. That's that's the point. And

5982
04:13:18,479 --> 04:13:20,800
remember SP has two provisions. You

5983
04:13:20,800 --> 04:13:22,720
don't have to do a lot split. Okay.

5984
04:13:22,720 --> 04:13:24,159
>> So the first provision is you can have

5985
04:13:24,159 --> 04:13:26,159
up to four units in any configuration on

5986
04:13:26,159 --> 04:13:28,560
an existing lot. That could be two SP9,

5987
04:13:28,560 --> 04:13:32,239
two ADUs or all SP9. And then you have

5988
04:13:32,239 --> 04:13:34,800
the option to also do the lot split. So

5989
04:13:34,800 --> 04:13:38,000
those are not mutually exclusive.

5990
04:13:38,000 --> 04:13:40,159
>> Thank you for that update.

5991
04:13:40,159 --> 04:13:43,120
>> Okay. So we got the 1200 on the table.

5992
04:13:43,120 --> 04:13:45,040
I've got two people that are okay with

5993
04:13:45,040 --> 04:13:47,439
it. What I'm asking is with the rest of

5994
04:13:47,439 --> 04:13:49,760
you, I I realize that you might not and

5995
04:13:49,760 --> 04:13:50,960
it sounds like there's three of you and

5996
04:13:50,960 --> 04:13:52,800
if you tell me that the three of you are

5997
04:13:52,800 --> 04:13:54,720
not going to go for 1,200, I will change

5998
04:13:54,720 --> 04:13:58,319
it to 850 a,000. I'm just looking for

5999
04:13:58,319 --> 04:14:00,720
something that we can all then vote on

6000
04:14:00,720 --> 04:14:02,960
and give I mean let let them go right up

6001
04:14:02,960 --> 04:14:05,040
the changes and then we can vote on. So

6002
04:14:05,040 --> 04:14:06,239
where do you guys stand? Are you willing

6003
04:14:06,239 --> 04:14:07,920
to go for 1,200 or you want to stand

6004
04:14:07,920 --> 04:14:10,880
firm at the thousand?

6005
04:14:10,880 --> 04:14:12,399
>> Is this an auction?

6006
04:14:12,399 --> 04:14:14,159
>> Uh no. This this is just a pressure

6007
04:14:14,159 --> 04:14:15,680
campaign to decide.

6008
04:14:15,680 --> 04:14:17,600
>> To be clear, the the planning commission

6009
04:14:17,600 --> 04:14:19,279
ended at a thousand.

6010
04:14:19,279 --> 04:14:21,040
>> No. They they

6011
04:14:21,040 --> 04:14:22,560
>> the 1200 that's in New York or

6012
04:14:22,560 --> 04:14:24,239
>> I thought they said for you to go back

6013
04:14:24,239 --> 04:14:25,920
and do something in the middle. I I

6014
04:14:25,920 --> 04:14:29,279
remember that. So originally under when

6015
04:14:29,279 --> 04:14:31,680
we went up to the commission under the

6016
04:14:31,680 --> 04:14:35,760
study session we proposed the 1100 or

6017
04:14:35,760 --> 04:14:39,600
the a thousand and 850 the ASC or I'm

6018
04:14:39,600 --> 04:14:40,800
sorry the planning commission had the

6019
04:14:40,800 --> 04:14:42,239
conversation because they brought up the

6020
04:14:42,239 --> 04:14:44,720
1500 right so that's where the in the

6021
04:14:44,720 --> 04:14:46,800
middle and then that's when we came back

6022
04:14:46,800 --> 04:14:48,479
with 1,200 and they agreed

6023
04:14:48,479 --> 04:14:50,000
>> they agreed with that

6024
04:14:50,000 --> 04:14:52,479
>> I'd say they provided direction to

6025
04:14:52,479 --> 04:14:54,800
because there was interest to go above a

6026
04:14:54,800 --> 04:14:56,720
thousand so the direction was to study

6027
04:14:56,720 --> 04:14:58,960
that look at what comes closer to

6028
04:14:58,960 --> 04:15:01,040
compliance with state law and that's

6029
04:15:01,040 --> 04:15:03,920
where we came back with the

6030
04:15:03,920 --> 04:15:05,359
>> and and that's why I proposed it because

6031
04:15:05,359 --> 04:15:07,439
I heard different pieces but again

6032
04:15:07,439 --> 04:15:09,279
>> I just heard different things different

6033
04:15:09,279 --> 04:15:10,560
times

6034
04:15:10,560 --> 04:15:12,479
>> um

6035
04:15:12,479 --> 04:15:14,720
well give me a good argument per

6036
04:15:14,720 --> 04:15:16,960
thousand

6037
04:15:16,960 --> 04:15:19,279
what's the best argument

6038
04:15:19,279 --> 04:15:21,840
>> well it all comes down to that forfeoot

6039
04:15:21,840 --> 04:15:24,720
that interpretation in the booklet that

6040
04:15:24,720 --> 04:15:27,040
says that you know we have no control

6041
04:15:27,040 --> 04:15:29,040
over setbacks. And my big I'm not

6042
04:15:29,040 --> 04:15:30,960
against 1,200

6043
04:15:30,960 --> 04:15:35,040
or 1500 because I mean a ridge if it if

6044
04:15:35,040 --> 04:15:37,279
it wasn't at 4 feet that's where my big

6045
04:15:37,279 --> 04:15:40,159
concern is. So we can't put that uh you

6046
04:15:40,159 --> 04:15:42,960
know restriction in there. So

6047
04:15:42,960 --> 04:15:45,359
>> they just go for an SP9 anyway. So

6048
04:15:45,359 --> 04:15:47,359
>> but they are they seem to also have the

6049
04:15:47,359 --> 04:15:50,399
forefoot now with SP9. So

6050
04:15:50,399 --> 04:15:53,520
>> I guess is it beneficial? Is it that

6051
04:15:53,520 --> 04:15:56,000
beneficial is the question. And back

6052
04:15:56,000 --> 04:15:57,359
when we were on the planning commission,

6053
04:15:57,359 --> 04:15:59,760
we tried to like the 4 foot I remember

6054
04:15:59,760 --> 04:16:01,279
passing and then we were trying to give

6055
04:16:01,279 --> 04:16:03,520
carrots to put it

6056
04:16:03,520 --> 04:16:05,439
>> back more, but that those aren't allowed

6057
04:16:05,439 --> 04:16:07,760
anymore from what I understand.

6058
04:16:07,760 --> 04:16:10,319
>> So, I mean, I I think we've had the law

6059
04:16:10,319 --> 04:16:13,760
for four years. We we haven't had 1,200

6060
04:16:13,760 --> 04:16:16,000
foot homes. I mean, have we had anything

6061
04:16:16,000 --> 04:16:18,159
right at four feet in in a larger lot,

6062
04:16:18,159 --> 04:16:20,880
not in the

6063
04:16:20,880 --> 04:16:23,040
>> looking and remembering the report that

6064
04:16:23,040 --> 04:16:25,279
we did for the housing element, I think

6065
04:16:25,279 --> 04:16:28,399
we had one, 1200 foot unit within the

6066
04:16:28,399 --> 04:16:30,560
last three years.

6067
04:16:30,560 --> 04:16:32,080
>> And that was only one. And I don't

6068
04:16:32,080 --> 04:16:33,920
remember the setback. I don't remember

6069
04:16:33,920 --> 04:16:35,680
all of that. And was that yours, Ellen?

6070
04:16:35,680 --> 04:16:38,159
>> So, that's mine. And I had a 25 foot

6071
04:16:38,159 --> 04:16:39,359
setback.

6072
04:16:39,359 --> 04:16:41,199
>> So, and my neighbors hate me.

6073
04:16:41,199 --> 04:16:41,600
>> Yeah.

6074
04:16:41,600 --> 04:16:42,960
>> Because of it. Sorry.

6075
04:16:42,960 --> 04:16:45,439
>> Yeah. That's a different

6076
04:16:45,439 --> 04:16:47,199
>> best to work with the applicants to

6077
04:16:47,199 --> 04:16:49,199
encourage the largers. It's just when

6078
04:16:49,199 --> 04:16:50,800
they submit and propose the four, we

6079
04:16:50,800 --> 04:16:52,960
can't say no. So, you know, staff is

6080
04:16:52,960 --> 04:16:54,880
working with people to try to encourage

6081
04:16:54,880 --> 04:16:55,680
it.

6082
04:16:55,680 --> 04:16:57,279
>> And we're doing the best that we can,

6083
04:16:57,279 --> 04:16:59,439
but if they propose that four, we just

6084
04:16:59,439 --> 04:17:01,680
have to accept it. Sadly,

6085
04:17:01,680 --> 04:17:02,880
>> I mean, again, the argument I'm making

6086
04:17:02,880 --> 04:17:05,199
for the 12 is that if we want people to

6087
04:17:05,199 --> 04:17:07,359
build a reasonable residence, when I've

6088
04:17:07,359 --> 04:17:08,720
talked to architects, this is a number

6089
04:17:08,720 --> 04:17:10,800
they said, you know, 1,200 you can get a

6090
04:17:10,800 --> 04:17:13,040
reasonable place. And you know, if our

6091
04:17:13,040 --> 04:17:15,199
worry is it's a 4 foot setback, you

6092
04:17:15,199 --> 04:17:17,199
know, another 200 feet in terms of its

6093
04:17:17,199 --> 04:17:19,600
impact is not that much. I mean, you've

6094
04:17:19,600 --> 04:17:21,120
already got a thousand foot of impact.

6095
04:17:21,120 --> 04:17:23,760
The the next 200, I think, in terms of

6096
04:17:23,760 --> 04:17:26,000
impact being that close, as much as I

6097
04:17:26,000 --> 04:17:27,600
hate it as well. So, I think what we're

6098
04:17:27,600 --> 04:17:29,439
hoping is that they're not going to take

6099
04:17:29,439 --> 04:17:31,040
advantage of I'm going to build it as

6100
04:17:31,040 --> 04:17:33,359
close to the edge as I can, but we can't

6101
04:17:33,359 --> 04:17:34,239
control it.

6102
04:17:34,239 --> 04:17:36,720
>> You know, at 1200, in what I've seen in

6103
04:17:36,720 --> 04:17:38,560
other jurisdictions, you can get a

6104
04:17:38,560 --> 04:17:40,640
reasonably sized two to threebedroom.

6105
04:17:40,640 --> 04:17:43,120
>> Yeah. Exactly. what is coming in at that

6106
04:17:43,120 --> 04:17:45,359
size. Otherwise, it's usually a one or

6107
04:17:45,359 --> 04:17:47,040
two bedroom that's usually under the

6108
04:17:47,040 --> 04:17:50,950
map. Mostly one.

6109
04:17:50,960 --> 04:17:52,159
» I guess I'm okay.

6110
04:17:52,159 --> 04:17:53,040
>> I'm okay with it.

6111
04:17:53,040 --> 04:17:56,159
>> Okay. Thank you. All right. So then I I

6112
04:17:56,159 --> 04:17:58,159
take J to J's point. I'd like to split

6113
04:17:58,159 --> 04:17:59,920
these two pieces. We can do that right

6114
04:17:59,920 --> 04:18:02,399
between the the P and the the

6115
04:18:02,399 --> 04:18:07,120
indemnification and um

6116
04:18:07,120 --> 04:18:10,159
but in just right in terms of votes. Um

6117
04:18:10,159 --> 04:18:13,600
so then on the ADU we've got 1,200

6118
04:18:13,600 --> 04:18:16,080
utilities education fee just some light

6119
04:18:16,080 --> 04:18:19,040
thing the scenic um corridor the

6120
04:18:19,040 --> 04:18:21,040
undergrounding exception and the two

6121
04:18:21,040 --> 04:18:23,920
lights with a lumen limit. Is that am I

6122
04:18:23,920 --> 04:18:26,239
missing anything? Okay. So I think

6123
04:18:26,239 --> 04:18:30,000
that's the marching directions and then

6124
04:18:30,000 --> 04:18:33,279
going to the um

6125
04:18:33,279 --> 04:18:35,680
indemnification

6126
04:18:35,680 --> 04:18:37,840
as a separate

6127
04:18:37,840 --> 04:18:39,600
thing just as a separate one. I was

6128
04:18:39,600 --> 04:18:43,120
proposing may and some sort of language

6129
04:18:43,120 --> 04:18:45,279
that Katherine can come up with to deal

6130
04:18:45,279 --> 04:18:48,800
with town negligence. Um, and we're

6131
04:18:48,800 --> 04:18:50,159
separating this because Judith may vote

6132
04:18:50,159 --> 04:18:51,760
against the may, but

6133
04:18:51,760 --> 04:18:55,199
>> I will because and just for the record,

6134
04:18:55,199 --> 04:18:58,479
um, if you have a may and an ordinance,

6135
04:18:58,479 --> 04:19:00,800
it's what do I do with that? Like, who's

6136
04:19:00,800 --> 04:19:04,000
going to be the decider for when it gets

6137
04:19:04,000 --> 04:19:06,560
applied? Once you start distinguishing

6138
04:19:06,560 --> 04:19:09,040
between one situation and another,

6139
04:19:09,040 --> 04:19:11,439
you're at real risk of being perceived

6140
04:19:11,439 --> 04:19:12,960
as

6141
04:19:12,960 --> 04:19:15,439
having a grudge against somebody.

6142
04:19:15,439 --> 04:19:18,479
Recalling how the PAS came up. So, I I

6143
04:19:18,479 --> 04:19:23,199
think it's got to be out is is where I'm

6144
04:19:23,199 --> 04:19:25,279
coming from. I don't like the fact that

6145
04:19:25,279 --> 04:19:27,439
it can be subject to abuse, but there's

6146
04:19:27,439 --> 04:19:31,439
a lot of p pieces of, you know, the town

6147
04:19:31,439 --> 04:19:33,439
that

6148
04:19:33,439 --> 04:19:36,239
we we Well,

6149
04:19:36,239 --> 04:19:39,359
you can't you can't uh dictate good good

6150
04:19:39,359 --> 04:19:42,239
faith use of tools. This is part of what

6151
04:19:42,239 --> 04:19:44,399
we have to make available for

6152
04:19:44,399 --> 04:19:46,080
transparency from my point of view. So

6153
04:19:46,080 --> 04:19:47,279
that's that's it.

6154
04:19:47,279 --> 04:19:48,880
>> Could we put a limit? You're responsible

6155
04:19:48,880 --> 04:19:54,469
for the first 10

6156
04:19:54,479 --> 04:19:56,000
» 10,000 I think is what she's saying.

6157
04:19:56,000 --> 04:19:57,920
>> No, no. First 10

6158
04:19:57,920 --> 04:19:59,920
>> first 10 P requests.

6159
04:19:59,920 --> 04:20:02,000
>> Oh

6160
04:20:02,000 --> 04:20:04,239
god, that's a lot of P requests. But

6161
04:20:04,239 --> 04:20:04,800
yeah,

6162
04:20:04,800 --> 04:20:06,800
>> related to your application.

6163
04:20:06,800 --> 04:20:11,199
>> And I guess my thinking Judith was that

6164
04:20:11,199 --> 04:20:13,120
the council

6165
04:20:13,120 --> 04:20:15,520
would have the authority to decide the

6166
04:20:15,520 --> 04:20:18,159
may and that the public would have the

6167
04:20:18,159 --> 04:20:20,080
ability to influence the council on

6168
04:20:20,080 --> 04:20:22,800
whether we put that on the applicant and

6169
04:20:22,800 --> 04:20:24,720
or the count the town took it on which

6170
04:20:24,720 --> 04:20:26,159
is I mean that was what I was thinking

6171
04:20:26,159 --> 04:20:28,560
that the may would get.

6172
04:20:28,560 --> 04:20:31,840
>> Yeah. I just think it both seeing the

6173
04:20:31,840 --> 04:20:34,239
public reaction to past PAs, if you

6174
04:20:34,239 --> 04:20:36,479
thought they were worth it or not, it

6175
04:20:36,479 --> 04:20:38,800
was very polarizing and I don't think

6176
04:20:38,800 --> 04:20:41,600
that's a good thing to set up. Um, and

6177
04:20:41,600 --> 04:20:43,600
then the other is the applicant might

6178
04:20:43,600 --> 04:20:46,960
not have done anything wrong at all and

6179
04:20:46,960 --> 04:20:50,399
yet they're their project is a lightning

6180
04:20:50,399 --> 04:20:52,479
rod because someone wants to make it a

6181
04:20:52,479 --> 04:20:54,800
big deal. all of a sudden that applicant

6182
04:20:54,800 --> 04:20:57,199
has to now fund what could be a

6183
04:20:57,199 --> 04:20:59,439
ridiculous amount of P. So I think it

6184
04:20:59,439 --> 04:21:03,920
has the ability to be very unfair

6185
04:21:03,920 --> 04:21:07,840
and political. So anyway, you hear me?

6186
04:21:07,840 --> 04:21:10,800
>> I I appreciate your point. I mean, I'm

6187
04:21:10,800 --> 04:21:12,720
>> I'm persuaded enough that if other

6188
04:21:12,720 --> 04:21:14,479
people wanted to remove it, I could go

6189
04:21:14,479 --> 04:21:16,800
along with that. How that So

6190
04:21:16,800 --> 04:21:18,159
>> Okay. Well, so you're saying get rid of

6191
04:21:18,159 --> 04:21:19,920
PR like that the town's just going to

6192
04:21:19,920 --> 04:21:22,640
pay for like Okay. And how long were you

6193
04:21:22,640 --> 04:21:25,439
for that?

6194
04:21:25,439 --> 04:21:28,800
>> Okay, so neutral Becca.

6195
04:21:28,800 --> 04:21:32,239
Okay, then why don't let's just assume.

6196
04:21:32,239 --> 04:21:35,279
>> Okay. So, all right. Um, if we do that

6197
04:21:35,279 --> 04:21:37,279
and we get this town, can we just vote

6198
04:21:37,279 --> 04:21:38,960
on this as one thing instead of

6199
04:21:38,960 --> 04:21:40,560
splitting in two? I mean, is that is

6200
04:21:40,560 --> 04:21:42,000
that what you were going to not vote

6201
04:21:42,000 --> 04:21:44,239
against? Okay, then I think we've got

6202
04:21:44,239 --> 04:21:46,640
one thing we can work on. Great. Thank

6203
04:21:46,640 --> 04:21:50,720
you everybody. So, the next step is

6204
04:21:50,720 --> 04:21:52,800
we're gonna what what's the proper word

6205
04:21:52,800 --> 04:21:55,279
here for tableabling?

6206
04:21:55,279 --> 04:21:57,840
>> Uh, well, do you want to take a break or

6207
04:21:57,840 --> 04:22:00,880
do you want to uh I think table actually

6208
04:22:00,880 --> 04:22:02,720
would be the proper word to table this

6209
04:22:02,720 --> 04:22:05,520
item uh while the council proceeds with

6210
04:22:05,520 --> 04:22:07,520
um other business. Yeah, I guess what I

6211
04:22:07,520 --> 04:22:09,359
was hoping is we could go to the

6212
04:22:09,359 --> 04:22:10,960
subcommittee leaison committee and

6213
04:22:10,960 --> 04:22:13,840
regional agent reports for instance

6214
04:22:13,840 --> 04:22:15,680
>> and just get that done while you guys

6215
04:22:15,680 --> 04:22:16,800
are working because you don't need to be

6216
04:22:16,800 --> 04:22:17,840
part of that. Yes.

6217
04:22:17,840 --> 04:22:21,359
>> Um and then the charter obviously you do

6218
04:22:21,359 --> 04:22:23,439
need you're you're front and center on

6219
04:22:23,439 --> 04:22:25,120
that. So So can I guess that's what I'm

6220
04:22:25,120 --> 04:22:26,640
asking. Can we move to eight and come

6221
04:22:26,640 --> 04:22:28,319
back to the come back to a

6222
04:22:28,319 --> 04:22:28,880
>> Yes, you may.

6223
04:22:28,880 --> 04:22:29,279
>> Okay, great.

6224
04:22:29,279 --> 04:22:30,720
>> Can I ask one clarifying question about

6225
04:22:30,720 --> 04:22:34,640
the indemnification before we table? Um,

6226
04:22:34,640 --> 04:22:38,960
so I I heard uh from Council Hasco that

6227
04:22:38,960 --> 04:22:40,479
uh

6228
04:22:40,479 --> 04:22:42,399
her preference would be not to use gross

6229
04:22:42,399 --> 04:22:44,880
negligence. Um

6230
04:22:44,880 --> 04:22:46,560
uh which is a term that we've we

6231
04:22:46,560 --> 04:22:50,560
oftentimes use in our contracts. Uh but

6232
04:22:50,560 --> 04:22:53,760
again, this is um not typical to have

6233
04:22:53,760 --> 04:22:55,279
that exception in the code. And so I

6234
04:22:55,279 --> 04:22:56,800
just want to make sure it's tight and so

6235
04:22:56,800 --> 04:22:58,479
we don't get into an argument with the

6236
04:22:58,479 --> 04:22:59,680
applicant that they're not going to

6237
04:22:59,680 --> 04:23:01,680
demnify us because you were

6238
04:23:01,680 --> 04:23:04,399
>> you were negligent. And so I I guess I

6239
04:23:04,399 --> 04:23:06,560
would I would recommend either gross

6240
04:23:06,560 --> 04:23:09,040
negligence or willful misconduct or at

6241
04:23:09,040 --> 04:23:10,960
least sole negligent or willful

6242
04:23:10,960 --> 04:23:12,080
misconduct.

6243
04:23:12,080 --> 04:23:13,920
>> What is soul

6244
04:23:13,920 --> 04:23:16,560
>> sole negligence? Uh that would be

6245
04:23:16,560 --> 04:23:18,239
basically it's solely the town's

6246
04:23:18,239 --> 04:23:19,840
response fault.

6247
04:23:19,840 --> 04:23:22,720
>> So you're you're instead of gross

6248
04:23:22,720 --> 04:23:25,520
negligence. Uh I I'm wary of

6249
04:23:25,520 --> 04:23:27,680
>> I think it's solely solely to the extent

6250
04:23:27,680 --> 04:23:30,399
arising out of except to the extent so

6251
04:23:30,399 --> 04:23:33,199
arising solely out of the town's

6252
04:23:33,199 --> 04:23:34,159
negligence.

6253
04:23:34,159 --> 04:23:36,159
>> Yeah, I was that would work. I was

6254
04:23:36,159 --> 04:23:37,840
looking at except to the extent such

6255
04:23:37,840 --> 04:23:40,000
claim arises out of the sole negligence

6256
04:23:40,000 --> 04:23:43,359
or willful misconduct of the town.

6257
04:23:43,359 --> 04:23:44,080
>> Okay, great.

6258
04:23:44,080 --> 04:23:44,720
>> Okay,

6259
04:23:44,720 --> 04:23:45,760
>> perfect.

6260
04:23:45,760 --> 04:23:47,439
>> Thanks. We'll take a break or we'll

6261
04:23:47,439 --> 04:23:49,040
table this item and we'll be back.

6262
04:23:49,040 --> 04:23:50,399
>> Okay, so you guys are going to just go

6263
04:23:50,399 --> 04:23:51,520
sort of sit in the back and work

6264
04:23:51,520 --> 04:23:53,439
together. All right, great. Thank thank

6265
04:23:53,439 --> 04:23:55,520
you very much guys I council and

6266
04:23:55,520 --> 04:23:57,520
everybody for working through a very

6267
04:23:57,520 --> 04:23:59,600
complicated issue. All right so with

6268
04:23:59,600 --> 04:24:02,800
that we're going to table 7A we're going

6269
04:24:02,800 --> 04:24:05,279
to skip 7B for right now and we're going

6270
04:24:05,279 --> 04:24:10,239
to go directly to eight. Um

6271
04:24:10,239 --> 04:24:13,520
so are there in addition to the um

6272
04:24:13,520 --> 04:24:15,840
written reports are there any verbal

6273
04:24:15,840 --> 04:24:18,880
reports? I have one. Anybody else?

6274
04:24:18,880 --> 04:24:20,080
>> I have one as well.

6275
04:24:20,080 --> 04:24:23,199
>> Okay. Mary, do you is your Okay, great.

6276
04:24:23,199 --> 04:24:26,640
All right, Helen, go ahead.

6277
04:24:26,640 --> 04:24:31,120
>> So, um, uh, Vice Mayor and I actually

6278
04:24:31,120 --> 04:24:35,760
did work on a, uh, colleagues memo and I

6279
04:24:35,760 --> 04:24:39,840
pulled it right before, um, on the

6280
04:24:39,840 --> 04:24:42,720
connect Bay Area transportation measure

6281
04:24:42,720 --> 04:24:46,000
that will be on the ballot in November.

6282
04:24:46,000 --> 04:24:49,279
Um I was hoping that Portal Valley could

6283
04:24:49,279 --> 04:24:54,960
potentially get some funding from it. Um and that was what the colleagues

6284
04:24:54,960 --> 04:24:58,960
memo was looking at. Um, in a meeting

6285
04:24:58,960 --> 04:25:01,760
with Sam Trans that I had on Friday

6286
04:25:01,760 --> 04:25:03,920
morning, right before it was due to go

6287
04:25:03,920 --> 04:25:08,319
before, um, uh, it became quite clear to

6288
04:25:08,319 --> 04:25:11,040
me that Porto Valley is not going to be

6289
04:25:11,040 --> 04:25:13,199
eligible because of our lack of public

6290
04:25:13,199 --> 04:25:17,120
transportation and 63% of Connect Bay

6291
04:25:17,120 --> 04:25:21,680
Area dollars goes to operations, right?

6292
04:25:21,680 --> 04:25:25,920
um for example. So um you know the town

6293
04:25:25,920 --> 04:25:27,040
we're not going to be able to fill

6294
04:25:27,040 --> 04:25:29,279
potholes but we will get cleaner you

6295
04:25:29,279 --> 04:25:32,319
know if that we would get indirect

6296
04:25:32,319 --> 04:25:35,760
benefits like cleaner air trains to the

6297
04:25:35,760 --> 04:25:39,600
Giants games um less congestion on the

6298
04:25:39,600 --> 04:25:43,439
road. So but I did not do a colleague

6299
04:25:43,439 --> 04:25:46,640
memo because the colleagues memo would

6300
04:25:46,640 --> 04:25:50,319
have been pointless. So, um, and the

6301
04:25:50,319 --> 04:25:51,760
vice mayor and I did write a colleague's

6302
04:25:51,760 --> 04:25:53,760
memo, but

6303
04:25:53,760 --> 04:25:56,239
the last minute I frantically emailed

6304
04:25:56,239 --> 04:26:00,000
Veronica and Darcy like, "Please do not,

6305
04:26:00,000 --> 04:26:01,279
you know, please pull it off the

6306
04:26:01,279 --> 04:26:03,680
agenda." So, that's the update on

6307
04:26:03,680 --> 04:26:04,800
Connect Bay Area.

6308
04:26:04,800 --> 04:26:06,080
>> Okay. Thank So, thank you for the

6309
04:26:06,080 --> 04:26:10,640
update. Um and my update was that um

6310
04:26:10,640 --> 04:26:12,399
Midpen had a special meeting on

6311
04:26:12,399 --> 04:26:16,720
Hawthorne's and I attended Mary was

6312
04:26:16,720 --> 04:26:20,560
there Darcy was there um

6313
04:26:20,560 --> 04:26:23,120
Nonella was there so you know so we had

6314
04:26:23,120 --> 04:26:25,040
regional representation who else I'm

6315
04:26:25,040 --> 04:26:25,359
sorry

6316
04:26:25,359 --> 04:26:27,439
>> Betsy was there was there yeah of course

6317
04:26:27,439 --> 04:26:29,920
>> them up the attorney

6318
04:26:29,920 --> 04:26:31,279
>> so anyways we we had pretty good

6319
04:26:31,279 --> 04:26:34,239
representation um the meeting was about

6320
04:26:34,239 --> 04:26:36,319
whether they were going to start on SQA

6321
04:26:36,319 --> 04:26:38,479
um and and basically what they were

6322
04:26:38,479 --> 04:26:42,800
going to do SQL on. So what they decided

6323
04:26:42,800 --> 04:26:44,800
um and you know as you as you can

6324
04:26:44,800 --> 04:26:46,399
imagine this had already gone through

6325
04:26:46,399 --> 04:26:48,720
the natural resources committee and

6326
04:26:48,720 --> 04:26:50,800
they've been working on this a long time

6327
04:26:50,800 --> 04:26:53,600
and the general manager was very much

6328
04:26:53,600 --> 04:26:55,520
we've been working on this a long time

6329
04:26:55,520 --> 04:26:57,439
we need to keep moving. So that that was

6330
04:26:57,439 --> 04:26:59,520
her push. And so in the end, what

6331
04:26:59,520 --> 04:27:01,840
they've approved is doing SQA, but doing

6332
04:27:01,840 --> 04:27:05,279
full squa on the two options. And so the

6333
04:27:05,279 --> 04:27:06,640
two options are what they call option

6334
04:27:06,640 --> 04:27:10,080
nine and option 10. Option nine uses the

6335
04:27:10,080 --> 04:27:11,520
existing driveway that goes up to the

6336
04:27:11,520 --> 04:27:14,239
residence and then sort of turns and

6337
04:27:14,239 --> 04:27:16,479
cuts back to the right. And option 10 is

6338
04:27:16,479 --> 04:27:19,040
at the corner of Alpine and Portola and

6339
04:27:19,040 --> 04:27:21,680
then kind of goes in and turns left. And

6340
04:27:21,680 --> 04:27:25,680
then within those options are

6341
04:27:25,680 --> 04:27:28,239
um different parking configurations. So

6342
04:27:28,239 --> 04:27:30,560
they're looking for a 50 car parking

6343
04:27:30,560 --> 04:27:33,199
with ADU and a hammerhead to turn

6344
04:27:33,199 --> 04:27:35,920
around. That's one option and that's

6345
04:27:35,920 --> 04:27:37,439
true of both of them. And then there's

6346
04:27:37,439 --> 04:27:39,600
another option which is sort of imagine

6347
04:27:39,600 --> 04:27:41,760
a you know if there's two sets of

6348
04:27:41,760 --> 04:27:43,760
parking you know opposing each other

6349
04:27:43,760 --> 04:27:46,080
that they only do one strip. So they'd

6350
04:27:46,080 --> 04:27:48,880
be sort of roughly 25. Um, and then

6351
04:27:48,880 --> 04:27:50,640
another option was sort of a truncated

6352
04:27:50,640 --> 04:27:52,880
one where they only sort of it's it's

6353
04:27:52,880 --> 04:27:54,479
the same double width, but it's only

6354
04:27:54,479 --> 04:27:57,680
half as wide. So, so those are the I

6355
04:27:57,680 --> 04:27:59,120
think six options that they were going

6356
04:27:59,120 --> 04:28:02,720
to consider. Um, our conversations are

6357
04:28:02,720 --> 04:28:04,880
still ongoing with them and will

6358
04:28:04,880 --> 04:28:07,120
continue to be ongoing. I'm going to

6359
04:28:07,120 --> 04:28:08,640
recommend and I'm going to work on a

6360
04:28:08,640 --> 04:28:10,720
colleagues memo. I I that you know we

6361
04:28:10,720 --> 04:28:12,960
should create a subcommittee um probably

6362
04:28:12,960 --> 04:28:14,880
hire an attorney to help us with the

6363
04:28:14,880 --> 04:28:18,080
squa. the I did have some conversations

6364
04:28:18,080 --> 04:28:20,399
both with board members um and some of

6365
04:28:20,399 --> 04:28:22,960
their planners. I don't think they fully

6366
04:28:22,960 --> 04:28:27,680
realize the impact. We still have um

6367
04:28:27,680 --> 04:28:30,640
grading and zoning

6368
04:28:30,640 --> 04:28:35,040
basic authority. Um and somehow they the

6369
04:28:35,040 --> 04:28:37,920
planners sort of gave that light touch.

6370
04:28:37,920 --> 04:28:39,600
I mean a couple of count a couple of the

6371
04:28:39,600 --> 04:28:42,560
directors asked about it and they didn't

6372
04:28:42,560 --> 04:28:44,640
give them in my mind a particularly

6373
04:28:44,640 --> 04:28:46,800
clear answer. So I think the the

6374
04:28:46,800 --> 04:28:48,319
critical thing is and that's why I'm

6375
04:28:48,319 --> 04:28:50,080
going to write this colleagues memo is I

6376
04:28:50,080 --> 04:28:51,520
think we need to go back to them and

6377
04:28:51,520 --> 04:28:54,080
just say look we're trying to help you

6378
04:28:54,080 --> 04:28:56,080
not have a train wreck. So it better

6379
04:28:56,080 --> 04:28:58,399
that we talk about this now than later

6380
04:28:58,399 --> 04:29:00,800
but you know at the end of the day they

6381
04:29:00,800 --> 04:29:03,439
are the lead agency and we are a

6382
04:29:03,439 --> 04:29:05,199
responsible agency. Is that the correct

6383
04:29:05,199 --> 04:29:07,439
term? Um, and then we heard tonight that

6384
04:29:07,439 --> 04:29:09,120
the school district might want to be

6385
04:29:09,120 --> 04:29:11,120
involved. So, I will follow up on that

6386
04:29:11,120 --> 04:29:12,800
as well. So, I don't want to get too

6387
04:29:12,800 --> 04:29:14,000
much into policy here because this is

6388
04:29:14,000 --> 04:29:15,760
just a report, but that's the report

6389
04:29:15,760 --> 04:29:17,279
from that meeting. So, they did approve

6390
04:29:17,279 --> 04:29:20,159
it. Um, but there was two directors that

6391
04:29:20,159 --> 04:29:23,040
were definitely like, we sure this is

6392
04:29:23,040 --> 04:29:25,040
going the right direction. In the end,

6393
04:29:25,040 --> 04:29:27,680
it was unanimous, but I I think they're

6394
04:29:27,680 --> 04:29:30,319
missing some information. So, this is a

6395
04:29:30,319 --> 04:29:32,800
process that probably won't start in

6396
04:29:32,800 --> 04:29:34,319
earnest until this summer, and it's a

6397
04:29:34,319 --> 04:29:35,840
year-long process.

6398
04:29:35,840 --> 04:29:38,399
So, you know, this this is still we we

6399
04:29:38,399 --> 04:29:39,760
still have plenty of opportunity to have

6400
04:29:39,760 --> 04:29:41,279
discussion with them and they did say

6401
04:29:41,279 --> 04:29:46,239
that they were open to discussion. So,

6402
04:29:46,239 --> 04:29:48,880
>> I don't want to well, let let me be

6403
04:29:48,880 --> 04:29:50,960
clear. Catherine's firm is conflicted

6404
04:29:50,960 --> 04:29:53,600
out and the town needs legal counsel.

6405
04:29:53,600 --> 04:29:58,159
So, as part of whatever we do here, we just have to figure that out because

6406
04:29:58,159 --> 04:30:00,800
I'm completely uncomfortable going

6407
04:30:00,800 --> 04:30:02,720
>> going without legal counsel on that. So,

6408
04:30:02,720 --> 04:30:03,600
we'll figure that out.

6409
04:30:03,600 --> 04:30:04,960
>> And that was my proposal. The

6410
04:30:04,960 --> 04:30:06,080
colleague's memo was to have a

6411
04:30:06,080 --> 04:30:08,800
subcommittee get us legal representation

6412
04:30:08,800 --> 04:30:11,040
>> for SQA, etc. Yeah. No, 100%. Yeah, this

6413
04:30:11,040 --> 04:30:12,800
is this is not just a hey, let's go

6414
04:30:12,800 --> 04:30:14,159
chitchat. I mean, yeah, we need some

6415
04:30:14,159 --> 04:30:15,920
legal representation. Yeah, 100%. Thank

6416
04:30:15,920 --> 04:30:16,399
you.

6417
04:30:16,399 --> 04:30:18,640
>> So, I would point out if you're going to

6418
04:30:18,640 --> 04:30:22,080
go talk to the um school district with,

6419
04:30:22,080 --> 04:30:24,479
you know, Bob Bower, um he said that

6420
04:30:24,479 --> 04:30:26,159
they hadn't been consulted.

6421
04:30:26,159 --> 04:30:26,560
>> Right.

6422
04:30:26,560 --> 04:30:29,520
He was speaking for himself. Um I

6423
04:30:29,520 --> 04:30:31,199
would point out two things. First of

6424
04:30:31,199 --> 04:30:35,359
all, since Rebecca and I were elected,

6425
04:30:35,359 --> 04:30:39,439
we had not been briefed by Mid Pen. Um,

6426
04:30:39,439 --> 04:30:42,560
there were numerous public meetings, but

6427
04:30:42,560 --> 04:30:46,000
because of the concurrent meeting timing

6428
04:30:46,000 --> 04:30:48,399
been, you know, challenging. Um,

6429
04:30:48,399 --> 04:30:50,239
obviously Midpin's been working on this

6430
04:30:50,239 --> 04:30:52,960
project for like 10 years, so that's an

6431
04:30:52,960 --> 04:30:56,239
awkward one. Um they also at some point

6432
04:30:56,239 --> 04:30:59,199
my understanding is asked um the school

6433
04:30:59,199 --> 04:31:03,040
district to share parking. Um right and

6434
04:31:03,040 --> 04:31:05,120
the school district my understanding

6435
04:31:05,120 --> 04:31:07,600
according to mid pen

6436
04:31:07,600 --> 04:31:08,560
said no.

6437
04:31:08,560 --> 04:31:10,080
>> Yeah that's that did come up at the

6438
04:31:10,080 --> 04:31:11,760
meeting u and

6439
04:31:11,760 --> 04:31:14,720
>> they said it as they weren't interested

6440
04:31:14,720 --> 04:31:16,560
but I I don't know how much it was

6441
04:31:16,560 --> 04:31:18,239
pursued and and I think we have some

6442
04:31:18,239 --> 04:31:19,920
other options as a town to help with

6443
04:31:19,920 --> 04:31:22,399
parking. Um, so I think there's a lot of

6444
04:31:22,399 --> 04:31:24,000
opportunity to have some discussion and

6445
04:31:24,000 --> 04:31:25,439
that really was my purpose in going to

6446
04:31:25,439 --> 04:31:28,560
the meeting speaking was

6447
04:31:28,560 --> 04:31:31,040
this is great. We love open space. Our

6448
04:31:31,040 --> 04:31:33,520
town's founded on it, but let's talk and

6449
04:31:33,520 --> 04:31:34,720
they said, "Yeah, we're willing to

6450
04:31:34,720 --> 04:31:36,239
talk." So, so I think that we were

6451
04:31:36,239 --> 04:31:37,600
opening that dialogue up. That's really

6452
04:31:37,600 --> 04:31:39,120
what it was about. So,

6453
04:31:39,120 --> 04:31:40,720
>> I just wanted to ask about the SQA

6454
04:31:40,720 --> 04:31:44,640
process. Um, it's all about um the

6455
04:31:44,640 --> 04:31:46,399
environment, right? Whether trees are

6456
04:31:46,399 --> 04:31:49,120
cut down or what what the mitigating

6457
04:31:49,120 --> 04:31:51,359
factors are, right? Does it does the

6458
04:31:51,359 --> 04:31:53,840
town have any say? Is there an

6459
04:31:53,840 --> 04:31:55,840
opportunity within SQA to have the town

6460
04:31:55,840 --> 04:31:57,040
have input?

6461
04:31:57,040 --> 04:31:59,120
>> Yeah. Yeah.

6462
04:31:59,120 --> 04:32:01,600
So,

6463
04:32:01,600 --> 04:32:03,120
>> okay. So, anyway, that that's that's all

6464
04:32:03,120 --> 04:32:04,720
I have on on that. And again, I don't

6465
04:32:04,720 --> 04:32:06,159
want to go too far because it's just a

6466
04:32:06,159 --> 04:32:08,880
report. Um, it was an it was an

6467
04:32:08,880 --> 04:32:10,479
interesting meeting. I mean it they

6468
04:32:10,479 --> 04:32:11,920
clearly they've done lots and lots of

6469
04:32:11,920 --> 04:32:13,359
meetings and they think that our

6470
04:32:13,359 --> 04:32:15,359
planning staff has you know turned over

6471
04:32:15,359 --> 04:32:16,960
and so it's been hard to communicate

6472
04:32:16,960 --> 04:32:18,479
with us and and I appreciate those are

6473
04:32:18,479 --> 04:32:20,720
legitimate concerns but now we're ready

6474
04:32:20,720 --> 04:32:23,359
to open up and have a clear dialogue. So

6475
04:32:23,359 --> 04:32:24,479
I think we'll do that

6476
04:32:24,479 --> 04:32:27,040
>> and Oh right and they also they did have

6477
04:32:27,040 --> 04:32:28,080
the POG.

6478
04:32:28,080 --> 04:32:28,479
>> Yeah.

6479
04:32:28,479 --> 04:32:30,560
>> And we have had

6480
04:32:30,560 --> 04:32:33,359
Karen Botra who's on on this meeting

6481
04:32:33,359 --> 04:32:35,920
right now and Helen Quinn and then

6482
04:32:35,920 --> 04:32:37,600
there's someone up in Los Angeles.

6483
04:32:37,600 --> 04:32:39,279
>> Right. and and Helen was there, right?

6484
04:32:39,279 --> 04:32:41,600
Um and it's David

6485
04:32:41,600 --> 04:32:43,600
starts

6486
04:32:43,600 --> 04:32:47,279
no. Anyway, yeah, David, I know him.

6487
04:32:47,279 --> 04:32:49,040
I've met him before. He's he's up in Los

6488
04:32:49,040 --> 04:32:54,640
Tranos. Um so, and and David's is this

6489
04:32:54,640 --> 04:32:56,159
>> Mir. Thank you. There you go. And

6490
04:32:56,159 --> 04:32:58,239
David's position was oh, maybe we can

6491
04:32:58,239 --> 04:33:00,720
get connection trails and this isn't,

6492
04:33:00,720 --> 04:33:04,000
you know, a mid pen wide thing and we

6493
04:33:04,000 --> 04:33:05,039
should, you know, have all this parking.

6494
04:33:05,039 --> 04:33:08,480
So, I mean, he's very pro 9 or 10. I

6495
04:33:08,480 --> 04:33:09,600
mean, just that that's where that

6496
04:33:09,600 --> 04:33:11,439
because he called in to basically give

6497
04:33:11,439 --> 04:33:13,680
his opinion. So, anyway, I I think

6498
04:33:13,680 --> 04:33:15,199
there's room for conversation here. I

6499
04:33:15,199 --> 04:33:16,959
think that's the the main thing I wanted

6500
04:33:16,959 --> 04:33:18,799
to report.

6501
04:33:18,799 --> 04:33:19,920
>> Okay. Um

6502
04:33:19,920 --> 04:33:21,439
>> I had a little report, too.

6503
04:33:21,439 --> 04:33:22,959
>> Oh, sorry. Go ahead, please. All right.

6504
04:33:22,959 --> 04:33:25,039
Um, so I attended the be sensitive, be

6505
04:33:25,039 --> 04:33:26,959
brave workshop that was put on for

6506
04:33:26,959 --> 04:33:29,920
mental health resources um by the mayor

6507
04:33:29,920 --> 04:33:34,480
group from um San Carlos, South City and

6508
04:33:34,480 --> 04:33:36,879
Pacifica. They organized it and it was

6509
04:33:36,879 --> 04:33:38,879
really quite interesting and part of it

6510
04:33:38,879 --> 04:33:43,600
was about it was for mental health for council members and school board

6511
04:33:43,600 --> 04:33:45,760
members really what you know just so you

6512
04:33:45,760 --> 04:33:49,439
are aware of um the resources and you're

6513
04:33:49,439 --> 04:33:52,240
aware of keeping track of your own um

6514
04:33:52,240 --> 04:33:56,000
situation as well as um they went

6515
04:33:56,000 --> 04:33:59,199
through a bunch of um scenarios

6516
04:33:59,199 --> 04:34:01,920
uh of how to kind of show concern for

6517
04:34:01,920 --> 04:34:03,840
your fellow council members if you're

6518
04:34:03,840 --> 04:34:06,160
seeing them under stress and how how to

6519
04:34:06,160 --> 04:34:07,840
communicate that sort of thing. It's

6520
04:34:07,840 --> 04:34:09,039
really quite helpful. And if people

6521
04:34:09,039 --> 04:34:10,639
would like to have the slides when they

6522
04:34:10,639 --> 04:34:14,561
send it, I'm happy to share them.

6523
04:34:14,561 --> 04:34:16,400
>> I have one more.

6524
04:34:16,400 --> 04:34:18,160
>> Okay. So, yeah, I would say maybe you

6525
04:34:18,160 --> 04:34:20,000
can give them to Darcy and then she can

6526
04:34:20,000 --> 04:34:23,039
pass them out to us. Yeah. Great. Yeah.

6527
04:34:23,039 --> 04:34:23,840
Go ahead, Helen.

6528
04:34:23,840 --> 04:34:25,760
>> Um, just a reminder that tomorrow is

6529
04:34:25,760 --> 04:34:28,080
bike to work day. I have a CKG meeting

6530
04:34:28,080 --> 04:34:30,080
so I can't bike to work but tomorrow is

6531
04:34:30,080 --> 04:34:32,400
bike to work day

6532
04:34:32,400 --> 04:34:34,959
um because it's up in

6533
04:34:34,959 --> 04:34:39,920
Berling Berling St. Carlos. Um

6534
04:34:39,920 --> 04:34:41,119
>> yeah yeah yeah

6535
04:34:41,119 --> 04:34:44,160
>> um so bike but also May is bike to

6536
04:34:44,160 --> 04:34:45,439
wherever day.

6537
04:34:45,439 --> 04:34:46,879
>> Nice.

6538
04:34:46,879 --> 04:34:49,199
>> The whole month of May.

6539
04:34:49,199 --> 04:34:49,920
They just made it

6540
04:34:49,920 --> 04:34:52,639
>> bike to school too. Right.

6541
04:34:52,639 --> 04:34:54,959
>> Right. Bike to wherever days. pledged to

6542
04:34:54,959 --> 04:34:56,959
ride a bike in May.

6543
04:34:56,959 --> 04:34:58,799
>> Good. Yeah. Which I think is great

6544
04:34:58,799 --> 04:34:59,920
because so many people are working at

6545
04:34:59,920 --> 04:35:01,680
home. I was going to say my bike to my

6546
04:35:01,680 --> 04:35:02,959
bike to work is like, well, let's see.

6547
04:35:02,959 --> 04:35:04,639
I'm going to bike from upstairs to

6548
04:35:04,639 --> 04:35:06,240
downstairs.

6549
04:35:06,240 --> 04:35:08,000
Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Well, it's Yeah,

6550
04:35:08,000 --> 04:35:09,359
except there's a lot of people who are

6551
04:35:09,359 --> 04:35:11,520
still working from home. So, so I think

6552
04:35:11,520 --> 04:35:12,879
this, you know, wherever days that

6553
04:35:12,879 --> 04:35:14,240
sounds like a great idea to get

6554
04:35:14,240 --> 04:35:15,680
encourage people get out on their bikes.

6555
04:35:15,680 --> 04:35:17,600
So, all right. And anything else under

6556
04:35:17,600 --> 04:35:20,400
this agenda item before I close it out?

6557
04:35:20,400 --> 04:35:22,799
All right. Well, thank you. Um, I would

6558
04:35:22,799 --> 04:35:26,000
suggest we just, you know, turn off the

6559
04:35:26,000 --> 04:35:28,160
recording. We can sort of whatever the

6560
04:35:28,160 --> 04:35:30,160
table equivalent is and wait for them to

6561
04:35:30,160 --> 04:35:31,760
come

6562
04:35:31,760 --> 04:35:34,000
on. Oh, you're right. Absolutely. 100%.

6563
04:35:34,000 --> 04:35:35,520
Thank that that was my bad. Let me just

6564
04:35:35,520 --> 04:35:36,799
do that.

6565
04:35:36,799 --> 04:35:39,520
>> I Yeah, it's it's a long meeting. So,

6566
04:35:39,520 --> 04:35:42,719
um, is there any public comment on

6567
04:35:42,719 --> 04:35:45,600
agenda item number eight? So, there's no

6568
04:35:45,600 --> 04:35:48,240
one left in the schoolhouse. Anybody

6569
04:35:48,240 --> 04:35:54,789
online have any comments on the reports?

6570
04:35:54,799 --> 04:35:56,320
Excuse me. Okay, I see no public

6571
04:35:56,320 --> 04:35:59,119
comments. So now I'll close this out.

6572
04:35:59,119 --> 04:36:01,760
Thank you for reminding him. All right.

6573
04:36:01,760 --> 04:36:03,199
So Veronica, if you can just turn off

6574
04:36:03,199 --> 04:36:05,680
the recording, then we'll just wait

6575
04:36:05,680 --> 04:36:06,959
until they come back and then we'll

6576
04:36:06,959 --> 04:36:11,990
restart 78. Oh,

6577
04:36:12,000 --> 04:36:14,400
okay. All right, great. Yeah. Yeah,

6578
04:36:14,400 --> 04:36:16,080
probably. Well, it's good. I'm I'm ready

6579
04:36:16,080 --> 04:36:17,680
for that. It's like, go ahead. Yeah, it

6580
04:36:17,680 --> 04:36:19,920
was all good. So, all right. Thank So,

6581
04:36:19,920 --> 04:36:25,029
thank you. We'll we'll be back shortly.

6582
04:36:25,039 --> 04:36:27,920
All right. Welcome back everybody.

6583
04:36:27,920 --> 04:36:30,561
So, we have our little subcommittee

6584
04:36:30,561 --> 04:36:33,199
here. They're they're back and they

6585
04:36:33,199 --> 04:36:37,510
hopefully have some new language.

6586
04:36:37,520 --> 04:36:39,600
» So, go ahead. What do you got for us?

6587
04:36:39,600 --> 04:36:41,119
>> Oh, I see how it is. This is going to be

6588
04:36:41,119 --> 04:36:43,359
like an eyesight test. Okay.

6589
04:36:43,359 --> 04:36:45,039
>> Totally. I'm just zoom in for you guys

6590
04:36:45,039 --> 04:36:47,279
too to make sure I

6591
04:36:47,279 --> 04:36:48,639
>> Yeah, thank you. I appre

6592
04:36:48,639 --> 04:36:51,199
>> if you would like us to save this as a

6593
04:36:51,199 --> 04:36:53,039
PDF and send it to you.

6594
04:36:53,039 --> 04:36:54,799
>> No, just No, just

6595
04:36:54,799 --> 04:36:56,080
>> I would like that.

6596
04:36:56,080 --> 04:36:57,439
>> Can we Can we just read this and keep

6597
04:36:57,439 --> 04:36:57,600
going?

6598
04:36:57,600 --> 04:36:59,199
>> Oh, no. You mean right now? Oh, no.

6599
04:36:59,199 --> 04:37:00,799
>> Yeah, right now. Just Oh, no. Just keep

6600
04:37:00,799 --> 04:37:03,520
going. Just go do it.

6601
04:37:03,520 --> 04:37:05,680
>> So, uh we'll start going through the ADU

6602
04:37:05,680 --> 04:37:10,080
ordinance. Um I didn't further up. Nope.

6603
04:37:10,080 --> 04:37:13,840
So with the utility connections, we

6604
04:37:13,840 --> 04:37:16,480
added in that also clarifying that

6605
04:37:16,480 --> 04:37:18,480
utility connections are subject to the

6606
04:37:18,480 --> 04:37:20,320
review and approval by the appropriate

6607
04:37:20,320 --> 04:37:21,920
utility agency. Right?

6608
04:37:21,920 --> 04:37:23,359
>> That was something you know we heard

6609
04:37:23,359 --> 04:37:24,561
from you all.

6610
04:37:24,561 --> 04:37:25,039
>> Good enough.

6611
04:37:25,039 --> 04:37:26,000
>> Additionally

6612
04:37:26,000 --> 04:37:28,080
>> for you so before you go. So that was

6613
04:37:28,080 --> 04:37:30,160
your so good enough. Okay. Great. Next.

6614
04:37:30,160 --> 04:37:32,639
>> We we also added the

6615
04:37:32,639 --> 04:37:35,119
>> we'll get the education one. We also

6616
04:37:35,119 --> 04:37:37,199
added the except for ADUs permitted

6617
04:37:37,199 --> 04:37:38,639
pursuant to government code section

6618
04:37:38,639 --> 04:37:40,400
66323

6619
04:37:40,400 --> 04:37:43,760
when a new or separate utility um

6620
04:37:43,760 --> 04:37:45,199
connection is proposed. So that should

6621
04:37:45,199 --> 04:37:48,080
cover us with the the cow um housing

6622
04:37:48,080 --> 04:37:50,639
defense fund.

6623
04:37:50,639 --> 04:37:52,480
We did add this in just because of how

6624
04:37:52,480 --> 04:37:54,240
we added the school fee in. We added a

6625
04:37:54,240 --> 04:37:56,240
little clarification and I think this

6626
04:37:56,240 --> 04:37:58,000
was something we heard as well is the

6627
04:37:58,000 --> 04:38:00,160
connection fees and capacity charges. We

6628
04:38:00,160 --> 04:38:01,840
just added these fees are assessed by

6629
04:38:01,840 --> 04:38:03,439
the utility agency. be

6630
04:38:03,439 --> 04:38:05,760
>> very clear, these are not our fees.

6631
04:38:05,760 --> 04:38:07,199
>> Um, and that's just to align with the

6632
04:38:07,199 --> 04:38:09,600
wording that we use for the school fees,

6633
04:38:09,600 --> 04:38:11,359
>> which include the language straight from

6634
04:38:11,359 --> 04:38:14,320
the um, California government code. And

6635
04:38:14,320 --> 04:38:16,320
then again clarifying that these fees

6636
04:38:16,320 --> 04:38:17,920
are assessed by the school district.

6637
04:38:17,920 --> 04:38:19,439
>> Awesome.

6638
04:38:19,439 --> 04:38:21,520
>> I can't see them at all.

6639
04:38:21,520 --> 04:38:23,119
>> I just want to make sure

6640
04:38:23,119 --> 04:38:24,959
>> if you have um, I'm sharing my screen on

6641
04:38:24,959 --> 04:38:26,561
the Zoom T. So if you're logged in,

6642
04:38:26,561 --> 04:38:29,279
>> I'm gonna try and I'm gonna try and

6643
04:38:29,279 --> 04:38:34,709
computer too. Yeah.

6644
04:38:34,719 --> 04:38:37,359
I can zoom in a little bit more too if I

6645
04:38:37,359 --> 04:38:42,949
>> Thank you. There. That's much better.

6646
04:38:42,959 --> 04:38:44,561
» Okay, keep going.

6647
04:38:44,561 --> 04:38:49,269
>> Okay.

6648
04:38:49,279 --> 04:38:50,959
» Wow, we're on page four. I'm feeling

6649
04:38:50,959 --> 04:38:52,160
great about this.

6650
04:38:52,160 --> 04:38:54,639
>> All right, so for

6651
04:38:54,639 --> 04:38:56,719
door, uh, since I we can only apply it

6652
04:38:56,719 --> 04:38:58,719
as far front setback, that's where I

6653
04:38:58,719 --> 04:39:01,199
have included it. So this uh the front

6654
04:39:01,199 --> 04:39:02,959
setback is the same as the underlying

6655
04:39:02,959 --> 04:39:05,039
district including the required scenic

6656
04:39:05,039 --> 04:39:07,439
corridor setbacks and then that's we're

6657
04:39:07,439 --> 04:39:08,879
still adding in the clarification about

6658
04:39:08,879 --> 04:39:10,719
the six

6659
04:39:10,719 --> 04:39:12,240
that was the existing language.

6660
04:39:12,240 --> 04:39:16,160
>> Okay. And then for exterior lighting, we

6661
04:39:16,160 --> 04:39:18,639
did leave kind of the you need to follow

6662
04:39:18,639 --> 04:39:20,719
those requirements except that the

6663
04:39:20,719 --> 04:39:24,320
primary entrance of the ADU may have one

6664
04:39:24,320 --> 04:39:26,959
or two fixtures which shall be limited

6665
04:39:26,959 --> 04:39:31,600
to a total lumen count of 1,125.

6666
04:39:31,600 --> 04:39:33,840
That's consistent with the garage. I did

6667
04:39:33,840 --> 04:39:35,279
have one question. Do you want that

6668
04:39:35,279 --> 04:39:39,200
extended to J80 primary entrance for J8?

6669
04:39:39,200 --> 04:39:41,680
>> No, I don't. But that's a thousand

6670
04:39:41,680 --> 04:39:43,600
lumens. That's a lot of lumens.

6671
04:39:43,600 --> 04:39:46,878
>> That's that is authorized for the two

6672
04:39:46,878 --> 04:39:48,000
lights on,

6673
04:39:48,000 --> 04:39:51,760
>> right? But they're but they're 20 feet apart. We're talking

6674
04:39:51,760 --> 04:39:54,160
about something that's five feet or six

6675
04:39:54,160 --> 04:40:01,910
feet apart. So

6676
04:40:01,920 --> 04:40:03,680
» So

6677
04:40:03,680 --> 04:40:06,638
for the lights that are at a an

6678
04:40:06,638 --> 04:40:08,798
entrance, I think most of the times the

6679
04:40:08,798 --> 04:40:11,840
lumens are around 4 to 500.

6680
04:40:11,840 --> 04:40:14,080
um that that that's kind of like the max

6681
04:40:14,080 --> 04:40:15,600
that we ever see. That's going to be

6682
04:40:15,600 --> 04:40:19,200
generally like a 10 cent bulb in that

6683
04:40:19,200 --> 04:40:22,240
fixture. Um but there's also a whole

6684
04:40:22,240 --> 04:40:25,200
range that it changes to high. So if we

6685
04:40:25,200 --> 04:40:27,280
want to specify a lower number, you

6686
04:40:27,280 --> 04:40:28,718
know, we definitely can.

6687
04:40:28,718 --> 04:40:30,160
>> Why don't you keep going? I'll I'll come

6688
04:40:30,160 --> 04:40:31,520
up with something.

6689
04:40:31,520 --> 04:40:34,400
>> Well, also does that assume that it's

6690
04:40:34,400 --> 04:40:37,120
the the downward trajec?

6691
04:40:37,120 --> 04:40:39,440
>> Yeah. So they would still have to so all

6692
04:40:39,440 --> 04:40:41,360
we're doing is adding the exception

6693
04:40:41,360 --> 04:40:43,440
instead of one light you have to with

6694
04:40:43,440 --> 04:40:45,280
that maximum lumen you still have to

6695
04:40:45,280 --> 04:40:48,000
comply with outdoor lighting and if you

6696
04:40:48,000 --> 04:40:50,400
want me to revise this to explicitly say

6697
04:40:50,400 --> 04:40:52,560
that I can that as well but

6698
04:40:52,560 --> 04:40:54,480
>> well isn't that what that section

6699
04:40:54,480 --> 04:40:56,878
reference does then

6700
04:40:56,878 --> 04:41:03,350
yeah okay then no need for more

6701
04:41:03,360 --> 04:41:05,200
» so that would be it for the ADU

6702
04:41:05,200 --> 04:41:07,120
ordinance and then I will scroll But

6703
04:41:07,120 --> 04:41:13,510
I'll let Catherine discuss theations.

6704
04:41:13,520 --> 04:41:14,798
» And what was the number you put on the

6705
04:41:14,798 --> 04:41:16,000
lumas? That was 11

6706
04:41:16,000 --> 04:41:17,920
>> right now. I just matched what is for

6707
04:41:17,920 --> 04:41:21,440
the garage which is 1,125.

6708
04:41:21,440 --> 04:41:24,480
>> Okay. I mean I that's like 75 watt

6709
04:41:24,480 --> 04:41:26,798
equivalent. I can probably live with

6710
04:41:26,798 --> 04:41:28,560
that.

6711
04:41:28,560 --> 04:41:30,480
I mean people

6712
04:41:30,480 --> 04:41:32,560
>> split between two.

6713
04:41:32,560 --> 04:41:35,040
>> Okay. I guess I don't, just for the

6714
04:41:35,040 --> 04:41:37,520
record, I hate making this stuff up and

6715
04:41:37,520 --> 04:41:40,000
I hate lights that are too bright in

6716
04:41:40,000 --> 04:41:43,120
town because they only go get brighter

6717
04:41:43,120 --> 04:41:45,440
and nobody puts their shades up and all

6718
04:41:45,440 --> 04:41:46,958
of that. So,

6719
04:41:46,958 --> 04:41:49,120
>> I I'll bite the bullet on this one, but

6720
04:41:49,120 --> 04:41:51,680
I really don't like winging it. Um, you

6721
04:41:51,680 --> 04:41:54,000
know, if if I could, I would reduce it a

6722
04:41:54,000 --> 04:41:54,958
little bit, but

6723
04:41:54,958 --> 04:41:57,840
>> Well, to what? I mean,

6724
04:41:57,840 --> 04:41:59,440
>> like twothirds. I mean, I don't know. If

6725
04:41:59,440 --> 04:42:01,120
you're telling me that's 75, I don't

6726
04:42:01,120 --> 04:42:03,120
want it to be unusable.

6727
04:42:03,120 --> 04:42:05,360
>> I think this is also one of those

6728
04:42:05,360 --> 04:42:07,680
situations where you can re-review that

6729
04:42:07,680 --> 04:42:09,120
number as part of the objective design

6730
04:42:09,120 --> 04:42:10,718
standards. When that kind of comes

6731
04:42:10,718 --> 04:42:12,798
through, you might want to reook at

6732
04:42:12,798 --> 04:42:14,240
lighting and change those numbers

6733
04:42:14,240 --> 04:42:18,878
anyways. Maybe not use lumen. So that

6734
04:42:18,878 --> 04:42:20,718
>> if we did that later, would we have to

6735
04:42:20,718 --> 04:42:21,600
change this?

6736
04:42:21,600 --> 04:42:22,878
>> You would update it, but you could

6737
04:42:22,878 --> 04:42:24,638
update it. It's in the objective design

6738
04:42:24,638 --> 04:42:26,080
standard section anyways, which you

6739
04:42:26,080 --> 04:42:27,760
would want to update when you do

6740
04:42:27,760 --> 04:42:28,240
objective.

6741
04:42:28,240 --> 04:42:29,760
>> Oh, it is. Okay.

6742
04:42:29,760 --> 04:42:31,600
>> All right. Got it. Thank you. Okay.

6743
04:42:31,600 --> 04:42:32,798
>> And then the other thing is I mean what

6744
04:42:32,798 --> 04:42:35,280
if we made it lower? We've made 750 now.

6745
04:42:35,280 --> 04:42:38,400
And if it wasn't enough, we up it later.

6746
04:42:38,400 --> 04:42:41,200
>> So how do people feel? Let's just make a

6747
04:42:41,200 --> 04:42:43,280
I mean I'm with you. I hate this sort of

6748
04:42:43,280 --> 04:42:45,120
doing on the fly. But we got an option

6749
04:42:45,120 --> 04:42:46,320
to fix this in the future. So I'm

6750
04:42:46,320 --> 04:42:48,958
willing to move forward. So

6751
04:42:48,958 --> 04:42:50,958
>> it's your it's your problem. I'll get it

6752
04:42:50,958 --> 04:42:51,280
right.

6753
04:42:51,280 --> 04:42:59,440
>> I know. I'm trying to remember like what do we have? Thank you.

6754
04:42:59,440 --> 04:43:01,520
>> Um, what do we have currently allowed?

6755
04:43:01,520 --> 04:43:03,680
How what lumens other than the garage

6756
04:43:03,680 --> 04:43:06,080
like at the front door? Does anyone know

6757
04:43:06,080 --> 04:43:08,560
in our current code?

6758
04:43:08,560 --> 04:43:10,560
>> I have to read it and I have it pulled

6759
04:43:10,560 --> 04:43:13,120
up. So, a moment.

6760
04:43:13,120 --> 04:43:21,030
I don't know if they're

6761
04:43:21,040 --> 04:43:22,878
» optimal outdoor lighting requires a

6762
04:43:22,878 --> 04:43:24,560
balance of brightness and purpose

6763
04:43:24,560 --> 04:43:28,480
generally ranging from 12 to 1300 plus

6764
04:43:28,480 --> 04:43:31,760
lumens. So that's a

6765
04:43:31,760 --> 04:43:34,160
bit of a range.

6766
04:43:34,160 --> 04:43:35,520
>> Well, 12 is really low.

6767
04:43:35,520 --> 04:43:37,120
>> Oh, I know. I'm not proposing that.

6768
04:43:37,120 --> 04:43:38,878
That's just for a point of reference

6769
04:43:38,878 --> 04:43:42,160
since I know nothing.

6770
04:43:42,160 --> 04:43:44,080
I and it might be in the design

6771
04:43:44,080 --> 04:43:45,440
guidelines. So I might have to pull

6772
04:43:45,440 --> 04:43:48,080
those up where that lumen restriction is

6773
04:43:48,080 --> 04:43:50,400
in the code. The only explicit lumen

6774
04:43:50,400 --> 04:43:52,480
restriction is on the garages. So I

6775
04:43:52,480 --> 04:43:54,160
would I would have to pull up the design

6776
04:43:54,160 --> 04:43:55,680
standards to double check if there's

6777
04:43:55,680 --> 04:43:59,040
another restriction there.

6778
04:43:59,040 --> 04:44:01,680
>> Okay. Well, what what do we want to move

6779
04:44:01,680 --> 04:44:04,718
forward on? We just leave for now.

6780
04:44:04,718 --> 04:44:07,440
>> I put it a little lower, but but I don't

6781
04:44:07,440 --> 04:44:09,040
feel that strongly. I mean

6782
04:44:09,040 --> 04:44:14,150
>> 900 just

6783
04:44:14,160 --> 04:44:15,360
Oh my god.

6784
04:44:15,360 --> 04:44:17,280
>> I'm just making it lower than 1100.

6785
04:44:17,280 --> 04:44:18,160
>> Change.

6786
04:44:18,160 --> 04:44:23,190
>> Yeah.

6787
04:44:23,200 --> 04:44:26,480
» Not it's it this is a substantive item

6788
04:44:26,480 --> 04:44:29,280
so it's not really a typo or you know

6789
04:44:29,280 --> 04:44:34,150
technical correction. Um

6790
04:44:34,160 --> 04:44:36,878
though if there's I guess if the council

6791
04:44:36,878 --> 04:44:38,798
direction is if there's a I don't know

6792
04:44:38,798 --> 04:44:40,638
if we can give clear council direction

6793
04:44:40,638 --> 04:44:43,920
what the intent is perhaps we could

6794
04:44:43,920 --> 04:44:45,680
do some research between now and then

6795
04:44:45,680 --> 04:44:46,480
and just make

6796
04:44:46,480 --> 04:44:50,400
>> so if I can repeat bad info from AI um

6797
04:44:50,400 --> 04:44:52,958
key recommendations include 100 to 200

6798
04:44:52,958 --> 04:44:56,958
lumens for paths 50 to 300 for landscape

6799
04:44:56,958 --> 04:45:01,040
accents 300 to 700 for security and 700

6800
04:45:01,040 --> 04:45:04,080
to,300 for flood lights.

6801
04:45:04,080 --> 04:45:11,270
>> Take what of that what you will.

6802
04:45:11,280 --> 04:45:13,040
» Security like your three to seven.

6803
04:45:13,040 --> 04:45:17,040
>> Yeah. Three to 300 to 700.

6804
04:45:17,040 --> 04:45:24,390
>> Uh 50 to 300 for landscape.

6805
04:45:24,400 --> 04:45:27,440
» Not per light. That's

6806
04:45:27,440 --> 04:45:28,878
>> okay. Okay. What we have right now is

6807
04:45:28,878 --> 04:45:30,000
1100.

6808
04:45:30,000 --> 04:45:32,320
>> We got the design guidelines.

6809
04:45:32,320 --> 04:45:32,958
>> Yep.

6810
04:45:32,958 --> 04:45:35,920
>> I can read the language in there. So,

6811
04:45:35,920 --> 04:45:37,840
for a fixture type, it focuses more on

6812
04:45:37,840 --> 04:45:39,360
where the light's going to be. If it's

6813
04:45:39,360 --> 04:45:41,360
an overhead fixture, the maximum lumens

6814
04:45:41,360 --> 04:45:45,760
for a single fe uh fixture is 350.

6815
04:45:45,760 --> 04:45:47,280
>> Um,

6816
04:45:47,280 --> 04:45:50,878
and then for a low height is 225 and a

6817
04:45:50,878 --> 04:45:52,400
stair step is 50.

6818
04:45:52,400 --> 04:45:56,958
>> Okay. How about two times 350? 750 700.

6819
04:45:56,958 --> 04:45:57,840
Great.

6820
04:45:57,840 --> 04:46:01,040
>> Good. All right. Thank you. Great. And again, we can re if we get it wrong,

6821
04:46:01,040 --> 04:46:02,320
we'll revisit it later.

6822
04:46:02,320 --> 04:46:03,120
>> Yep. Okay.

6823
04:46:03,120 --> 04:46:04,798
>> Okay. Thank you. So, you'll make that

6824
04:46:04,798 --> 04:46:05,920
fix.

6825
04:46:05,920 --> 04:46:06,400
>> Yep.

6826
04:46:06,400 --> 04:46:08,160
>> You want to just do that while we're

6827
04:46:08,160 --> 04:46:10,958
watching you type? And

6828
04:46:10,958 --> 04:46:12,958
>> I'm just gonna add a note for right now.

6829
04:46:12,958 --> 04:46:14,400
Okay. And I will

6830
04:46:14,400 --> 04:46:17,440
>> Fair enough. Yeah. Now, I'm Yep. Yep.

6831
04:46:17,440 --> 04:46:20,400
>> You guys don't have to watch.

6832
04:46:20,400 --> 04:46:23,600
>> No, I know. Me. Yeah, me too. That's what I was thinking, too. So,

6833
04:46:23,600 --> 04:46:25,920
we're on board. All right. What's next?

6834
04:46:25,920 --> 04:46:28,080
I think indemnification is next. Is that

6835
04:46:28,080 --> 04:46:30,480
right, Brandon? All right. So, while

6836
04:46:30,480 --> 04:46:32,878
Brandon's scrolling down. Oh. Oh, yes.

6837
04:46:32,878 --> 04:46:35,280
So, we um struck the cost reimbursement

6838
04:46:35,280 --> 04:46:39,440
from the title um struck the um and

6839
04:46:39,440 --> 04:46:42,000
shall reimburse the town for cost and

6840
04:46:42,000 --> 04:46:44,638
vis response to P requests. And then

6841
04:46:44,638 --> 04:46:46,480
scroll down a little bit more. Uh we

6842
04:46:46,480 --> 04:46:49,600
carved out an exception here to this

6843
04:46:49,600 --> 04:46:52,240
section 020

6844
04:46:52,240 --> 04:46:53,760
indemnity required to say the

6845
04:46:53,760 --> 04:46:56,160
applicant's duty under this section

6846
04:46:56,160 --> 04:46:58,718
shall not apply to the extent such

6847
04:46:58,718 --> 04:47:00,958
claims arise out of the sole negligence

6848
04:47:00,958 --> 04:47:03,920
or willful misconduct of the town, its

6849
04:47:03,920 --> 04:47:07,120
agents, officers and employees.

6850
04:47:07,120 --> 04:47:09,200
>> Okay, you good with that?

6851
04:47:09,200 --> 04:47:09,520
>> Yeah.

6852
04:47:09,520 --> 04:47:12,400
>> Okay, great. And that's it, isn't it?

6853
04:47:12,400 --> 04:47:12,958
>> Yes.

6854
04:47:12,958 --> 04:47:15,520
>> Okay, so

6855
04:47:15,520 --> 04:47:18,240
was a a quick clarification that we

6856
04:47:18,240 --> 04:47:20,560
couldn't remember on the parking

6857
04:47:20,560 --> 04:47:22,878
>> conversation. I know we said no parking.

6858
04:47:22,878 --> 04:47:23,280
>> Okay.

6859
04:47:23,280 --> 04:47:25,440
>> Did you want say when they do provide

6860
04:47:25,440 --> 04:47:27,120
parking, you just want to put it in the

6861
04:47:27,120 --> 04:47:29,440
driveway? Because I know that was kind

6862
04:47:29,440 --> 04:47:30,878
of the discussion and I don't think we

6863
04:47:30,878 --> 04:47:33,360
had it clear

6864
04:47:33,360 --> 04:47:36,240
>> if if the applicant voluntarily provides

6865
04:47:36,240 --> 04:47:38,480
a parking space, it must be on an

6866
04:47:38,480 --> 04:47:39,600
existing

6867
04:47:39,600 --> 04:47:40,240
>> driveway.

6868
04:47:40,240 --> 04:47:43,760
Is that any problem with our

6869
04:47:43,760 --> 04:47:45,280
doing that?

6870
04:47:45,280 --> 04:47:47,120
No, I just wanted to make sure I asked

6871
04:47:47,120 --> 04:47:48,560
that question because that conversation

6872
04:47:48,560 --> 04:47:49,360
came up.

6873
04:47:49,360 --> 04:47:50,160
>> Yeah.

6874
04:47:50,160 --> 04:47:52,878
>> Um the only the only time that's going

6875
04:47:52,878 --> 04:47:54,080
to be an issue is the fire truck

6876
04:47:54,080 --> 04:47:55,760
turnaround, but again that's fire code

6877
04:47:55,760 --> 04:47:57,600
and they still have to be fire code. So

6878
04:47:57,600 --> 04:47:59,040
that would not be

6879
04:47:59,040 --> 04:48:01,200
>> necessarily an issue. And the state law

6880
04:48:01,200 --> 04:48:03,200
does say they can provide it as tandem

6881
04:48:03,200 --> 04:48:05,520
in driveway which they're focused on

6882
04:48:05,520 --> 04:48:06,958
like small lot. So that would literally

6883
04:48:06,958 --> 04:48:10,160
be right outside the garage door.

6884
04:48:10,160 --> 04:48:12,638
>> I think he is just not requiring a a

6885
04:48:12,638 --> 04:48:14,400
carport. I mean, I wouldn't have a

6886
04:48:14,400 --> 04:48:15,520
problem actually with having them park

6887
04:48:15,520 --> 04:48:19,040
in the dirt personally, but um

6888
04:48:19,040 --> 04:48:20,798
>> what I mean, do we need to say anything

6889
04:48:20,798 --> 04:48:23,600
more? Just not speak to this and you

6890
04:48:23,600 --> 04:48:25,520
know, when we go to revise this and we

6891
04:48:25,520 --> 04:48:27,760
come up with our, you know, objective

6892
04:48:27,760 --> 04:48:29,520
design standards, maybe we'll know more

6893
04:48:29,520 --> 04:48:32,400
then.

6894
04:48:32,400 --> 04:48:34,320
>> The thing about if you do put anything

6895
04:48:34,320 --> 04:48:37,680
in, you have to um uh conform with

6896
04:48:37,680 --> 04:48:39,440
whatever our ordinance is for parking

6897
04:48:39,440 --> 04:48:40,798
and that's a pretty substantial

6898
04:48:40,798 --> 04:48:41,840
ordinance there.

6899
04:48:41,840 --> 04:48:44,400
>> Got it. So either we have to say what I

6900
04:48:44,400 --> 04:48:45,840
put in there was you have to provide a

6901
04:48:45,840 --> 04:48:49,200
10 by 20 foot space but um

6902
04:48:49,200 --> 04:48:50,320
>> Okay,

6903
04:48:50,320 --> 04:48:52,160
>> but I mean it's up to

6904
04:48:52,160 --> 04:48:53,600
>> All right. Well, any of any other

6905
04:48:53,600 --> 04:48:58,480
opinions? Does anybody feel strongly? Um

6906
04:48:58,480 --> 04:49:00,320
so Brandon, do you have a recommendation

6907
04:49:00,320 --> 04:49:03,360
here? I I think what Rebecca's saying is

6908
04:49:03,360 --> 04:49:05,920
should we reduce it from something that

6909
04:49:05,920 --> 04:49:08,400
seems, you know, substantial

6910
04:49:08,400 --> 04:49:10,878
to just making it, you know, if you're

6911
04:49:10,878 --> 04:49:12,718
going to have parking, it's big enough

6912
04:49:12,718 --> 04:49:14,560
to park a car in.

6913
04:49:14,560 --> 04:49:16,638
>> Yeah. We can say either within an

6914
04:49:16,638 --> 04:49:18,560
existing

6915
04:49:18,560 --> 04:49:25,040
on the existing driveway or in a design

6916
04:49:25,040 --> 04:49:27,120
asphalt

6917
04:49:27,120 --> 04:49:28,080
area

6918
04:49:28,080 --> 04:49:30,718
>> pre-existed. I I would be happy not to

6919
04:49:30,718 --> 04:49:32,560
be paved per I would love it to be

6920
04:49:32,560 --> 04:49:35,680
permeable but

6921
04:49:35,680 --> 04:49:38,638
>> so we can say I think that would be the

6922
04:49:38,638 --> 04:49:40,638
simplistic

6923
04:49:40,638 --> 04:49:41,840
>> one okay

6924
04:49:41,840 --> 04:49:44,080
>> is that Sarah I want to know what you're

6925
04:49:44,080 --> 04:49:46,718
thinking

6926
04:49:46,718 --> 04:49:48,160
>> sounds like we might need a bit more

6927
04:49:48,160 --> 04:49:51,840
thought on this um than deciding

6928
04:49:51,840 --> 04:49:53,760
>> yeah

6929
04:49:53,760 --> 04:49:55,040
now

6930
04:49:55,040 --> 04:49:59,670
>> maybe

6931
04:49:59,680 --> 04:50:02,560
Yeah, I think that makes sense. Because

6932
04:50:02,560 --> 04:50:05,360
again, you can if we don't t get it

6933
04:50:05,360 --> 04:50:06,240
tight, it

6934
04:50:06,240 --> 04:50:08,080
>> I'm with you. So, Rebecca, you you okay

6935
04:50:08,080 --> 04:50:10,240
with that? Okay, great. Then let's do

6936
04:50:10,240 --> 04:50:14,320
that. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. I'm just trying to keep everybody's

6937
04:50:14,320 --> 04:50:18,000
requests honest. Okay, then that's it,

6938
04:50:18,000 --> 04:50:19,520
right?

6939
04:50:19,520 --> 04:50:20,638
>> Okay.

6940
04:50:20,638 --> 04:50:21,680
>> All right. So,

6941
04:50:21,680 --> 04:50:22,878
>> have a motion.

6942
04:50:22,878 --> 04:50:25,040
>> Yeah. So,

6943
04:50:25,040 --> 04:50:27,520
please go ahead. I move that the town

6944
04:50:27,520 --> 04:50:35,110
council adopt ordinance number 2026-455

6945
04:50:35,120 --> 04:50:38,480
um as amended approving the town zoning

6946
04:50:38,480 --> 04:50:40,878
code title 18 of the portal valley

6947
04:50:40,878 --> 04:50:43,200
municipal code to add regulations

6948
04:50:43,200 --> 04:50:46,160
related to accessory dwelling units

6949
04:50:46,160 --> 04:50:49,200
junior access accessory dwelling units

6950
04:50:49,200 --> 04:50:52,160
and dimmification of town and emergency

6951
04:50:52,160 --> 04:50:57,360
shelters by adding chapter 1825 Five

6952
04:50:57,360 --> 04:50:58,958
uh

6953
04:50:58,958 --> 04:51:01,200
standards for access accessory dwelling

6954
04:51:01,200 --> 04:51:05,440
units ADU and J AUS junior excuse me and

6955
04:51:05,440 --> 04:51:07,280
junior accessory dwelling unit in

6956
04:51:07,280 --> 04:51:09,520
chapter 1882

6957
04:51:09,520 --> 04:51:12,958
indemnification of town we struck out

6958
04:51:12,958 --> 04:51:16,480
cost reimbursement right and by amen

6959
04:51:16,480 --> 04:51:20,878
amending section 1836.040

6960
04:51:20,878 --> 04:51:23,120
040

6961
04:51:23,120 --> 04:51:25,440
accessory uses and determining the

6962
04:51:25,440 --> 04:51:28,718
project is exempt under the California

6963
04:51:28,718 --> 04:51:32,000
Environmental Quality Act.

6964
04:51:32,000 --> 04:51:34,080
>> Do I have a second?

6965
04:51:34,080 --> 04:51:36,320
>> Well, are we adopting it? Like was that

6966
04:51:36,320 --> 04:51:37,760
>> I want to make one clarification. I know

6967
04:51:37,760 --> 04:51:40,160
you're That was excellent. Um there but

6968
04:51:40,160 --> 04:51:42,320
you're actually um introducing it. So I

6969
04:51:42,320 --> 04:51:44,400
would strike the word adoption and

6970
04:51:44,400 --> 04:51:45,360
reduction instead.

6971
04:51:45,360 --> 04:51:48,000
>> Okay. And we should reference the as

6972
04:51:48,000 --> 04:51:50,638
amended by staff as presented.

6973
04:51:50,638 --> 04:51:51,200
>> Yeah.

6974
04:51:51,200 --> 04:51:51,840
>> Correct.

6975
04:51:51,840 --> 04:51:55,840
>> Yes. As amen as amended by staff.

6976
04:51:55,840 --> 04:51:59,680
>> Okay. Do we have a second?

6977
04:51:59,680 --> 04:52:00,400
>> Second.

6978
04:52:00,400 --> 04:52:02,958
>> Thank you. All in favor?

6979
04:52:02,958 --> 04:52:04,958
>> I I.

6980
04:52:04,958 --> 04:52:08,480
>> Any opposed? Okay. Great. Thank you very

6981
04:52:08,480 --> 04:52:11,040
much for your hard work.

6982
04:52:11,040 --> 04:52:15,600
I'd like to close 7A and move on to 7B.

6983
04:52:15,600 --> 04:52:18,798
So, who's presenting for 7B? Yeah, I

6984
04:52:18,798 --> 04:52:23,110
know. It's quarter after 11.

6985
04:52:23,120 --> 04:52:32,628
» Yeah.

6986
04:52:32,638 --> 04:52:34,560
» Okay. We have already got a hand raised.

6987
04:52:34,560 --> 04:52:39,520
So, I will be I have just

6988
04:52:39,520 --> 04:52:42,718
eight slides. So, let me go

6989
04:52:42,718 --> 04:52:46,240
fast. And I'll just I guess I'll just go

6990
04:52:46,240 --> 04:52:48,958
back. But, uh, Brandon, this is his last

6991
04:52:48,958 --> 04:52:51,040
meeting with the town. So,

6992
04:52:51,040 --> 04:52:53,600
>> he's taken a permanent planning manager

6993
04:52:53,600 --> 04:52:55,760
job at the city of Union City, which is

6994
04:52:55,760 --> 04:52:59,280
a promotion. And if tonight was any any

6995
04:52:59,280 --> 04:53:01,040
evidence, you will do great things in

6996
04:53:01,040 --> 04:53:03,360
your career. You are exceptional

6997
04:53:03,360 --> 04:53:05,120
planner.

6998
04:53:05,120 --> 04:53:07,040
>> Thank you. have had an absolute pleasure

6999
04:53:07,040 --> 04:53:08,958
for the last year and a half working for

7000
04:53:08,958 --> 04:53:10,718
Valley and contributing with different

7001
04:53:10,718 --> 04:53:13,360
projects brought up and I I know you

7002
04:53:13,360 --> 04:53:14,958
guys are in good hands here with Sarah

7003
04:53:14,958 --> 04:53:17,280
coming on board your new senior planner

7004
04:53:17,280 --> 04:53:20,080
that you guys have hired. I I know you

7005
04:53:20,080 --> 04:53:22,240
guys will be through things and thank

7006
04:53:22,240 --> 04:53:24,400
you for the opportunity.

7007
04:53:24,400 --> 04:53:24,878
>> Thank you.

7008
04:53:24,878 --> 04:53:28,560
>> And and and I just want to echo that. It really has been a pleasure and

7009
04:53:28,560 --> 04:53:30,240
particularly given we have you here at

7010
04:53:30,240 --> 04:53:33,280
11:20 on your very last night doing

7011
04:53:33,280 --> 04:53:35,680
this. So, so yeah, you you are you are

7012
04:53:35,680 --> 04:53:37,440
our hero tonight. So, thank you again.

7013
04:53:37,440 --> 04:53:39,440
We really appreciate it. Yeah. Drive

7014
04:53:39,440 --> 04:53:40,320
safe.

7015
04:53:40,320 --> 04:53:42,080
>> Good luck.

7016
04:53:42,080 --> 04:53:43,040
>> All right, Darcy.

7017
04:53:43,040 --> 04:53:44,958
>> Okay, Darcy Smith, town manager, joined

7018
04:53:44,958 --> 04:53:46,560
by Katherine Angberg, town attorney. And

7019
04:53:46,560 --> 04:53:49,120
we had a lot of help from Lauren Tarpe,

7020
04:53:49,120 --> 04:53:52,878
an associate at Katherine's firm

7021
04:53:52,878 --> 04:53:55,440
and Tony, who left a long time ago. So,

7022
04:53:55,440 --> 04:53:56,958
we're here tonight with the public

7023
04:53:56,958 --> 04:53:59,120
hearing on your town charter, but how we

7024
04:53:59,120 --> 04:54:02,798
got here, many years of work um working

7025
04:54:02,798 --> 04:54:04,798
on your number one priority, which is

7026
04:54:04,798 --> 04:54:07,680
finility and long-term viability. A lot

7027
04:54:07,680 --> 04:54:09,920
of work has been done, will continue to

7028
04:54:09,920 --> 04:54:11,760
be done. One highlight is that our user

7029
04:54:11,760 --> 04:54:13,120
free study is coming to the next

7030
04:54:13,120 --> 04:54:16,480
meeting. So, again, we we work on this

7031
04:54:16,480 --> 04:54:18,878
stuff every day and you know, we live

7032
04:54:18,878 --> 04:54:21,520
and breathe it. Um,

7033
04:54:21,520 --> 04:54:23,600
so you know the black line, I like to

7034
04:54:23,600 --> 04:54:25,440
show it just every meeting. So you know

7035
04:54:25,440 --> 04:54:27,360
it's the black line of doom. Um,

7036
04:54:27,360 --> 04:54:29,920
nothing's changed over the last three

7037
04:54:29,920 --> 04:54:32,400
weeks. Um,

7038
04:54:32,400 --> 04:54:35,600
we have been trying to

7039
04:54:35,600 --> 04:54:38,480
address the structural deficit. Um, but

7040
04:54:38,480 --> 04:54:40,320
it's looming

7041
04:54:40,320 --> 04:54:42,240
and we've been continuing our community

7042
04:54:42,240 --> 04:54:44,878
conversation. So I think you know we

7043
04:54:44,878 --> 04:54:47,120
sent out the Pulla Valley Post. We're

7044
04:54:47,120 --> 04:54:49,280
running the survey which will go through

7045
04:54:49,280 --> 04:54:52,560
June. One thing I wanted to mention

7046
04:54:52,560 --> 04:54:54,240
around community feedback is that the

7047
04:54:54,240 --> 04:54:57,600
town staff, me and Tony met with all all

7048
04:54:57,600 --> 04:55:00,160
the committee chairs that chose to join

7049
04:55:00,160 --> 04:55:01,520
us. We got a pretty good turnout. I

7050
04:55:01,520 --> 04:55:03,360
think about 13 of them came and we had

7051
04:55:03,360 --> 04:55:06,480
great conversations with them. Um and

7052
04:55:06,480 --> 04:55:07,760
we've heard from the community about

7053
04:55:07,760 --> 04:55:09,360
their three priorities. I think you know

7054
04:55:09,360 --> 04:55:11,040
them. I mean, in addition to fiscal

7055
04:55:11,040 --> 04:55:12,718
stability, which is number one, but

7056
04:55:12,718 --> 04:55:14,560
there's a huge interest in disaster

7057
04:55:14,560 --> 04:55:16,160
preparedness,

7058
04:55:16,160 --> 04:55:17,760
ensuring we're protecting our town

7059
04:55:17,760 --> 04:55:20,080
autonomy for the conversations you just

7060
04:55:20,080 --> 04:55:21,840
had tonight, right, around zoning and

7061
04:55:21,840 --> 04:55:26,000
land use decisions. When we have that ability to make local decisions, we

7062
04:55:26,000 --> 04:55:29,280
want to preserve it. Um, and it and our

7063
04:55:29,280 --> 04:55:31,120
analysis last year, community survey

7064
04:55:31,120 --> 04:55:34,958
showed that 60% are highly interested in

7065
04:55:34,958 --> 04:55:37,360
this charter approach.

7066
04:55:37,360 --> 04:55:39,200
So

7067
04:55:39,200 --> 04:55:42,798
yeah and and supportive of a taxation

7068
04:55:42,798 --> 04:55:44,958
measure. So I think you know the

7069
04:55:44,958 --> 04:55:46,400
difference between a general town and

7070
04:55:46,400 --> 04:55:47,840
charter town but you know why we are

7071
04:55:47,840 --> 04:55:51,040
here why we're doing this is local

7072
04:55:51,040 --> 04:55:53,120
control over what the state has defined

7073
04:55:53,120 --> 04:55:54,958
of municipal affairs but as you know

7074
04:55:54,958 --> 04:55:56,958
number one is to the ability to adopt

7075
04:55:56,958 --> 04:55:59,520
taxes that are otherwise not allowed or

7076
04:55:59,520 --> 04:56:02,160
not a charter and specifically the real

7077
04:56:02,160 --> 04:56:04,080
property transfer tax and that's

7078
04:56:04,080 --> 04:56:05,520
important. All that revenue would go

7079
04:56:05,520 --> 04:56:08,240
entirely to

7080
04:56:08,240 --> 04:56:11,840
so 26% of California cities have

7081
04:56:11,840 --> 04:56:13,920
charters. So we're not unique and we

7082
04:56:13,920 --> 04:56:15,520
have many neighbors in the Bay Area that

7083
04:56:15,520 --> 04:56:17,360
have charters. Um and I've been out

7084
04:56:17,360 --> 04:56:19,760
talking to our my peers and many are

7085
04:56:19,760 --> 04:56:22,320
working on this right now.

7086
04:56:22,320 --> 04:56:25,120
So at the last meeting you directed the

7087
04:56:25,120 --> 04:56:27,360
preparation of what we would describe as

7088
04:56:27,360 --> 04:56:30,080
a brief two pages. Very proud of that

7089
04:56:30,080 --> 04:56:32,798
narrowly focused charter uh modeled

7090
04:56:32,798 --> 04:56:34,638
after the St. Helina model that would

7091
04:56:34,638 --> 04:56:37,600
authorize the transfer tax but otherwise

7092
04:56:37,600 --> 04:56:39,920
keep the town subject to gen the general

7093
04:56:39,920 --> 04:56:42,160
state laws that exist. This will keep

7094
04:56:42,160 --> 04:56:44,320
the process simple and streamline and on

7095
04:56:44,320 --> 04:56:46,480
schedule and

7096
04:56:46,480 --> 04:56:49,600
um what there's a lot that the charter

7097
04:56:49,600 --> 04:56:51,360
will not touch and will not do and I

7098
04:56:51,360 --> 04:56:52,958
just want to make sure we're clear about

7099
04:56:52,958 --> 04:56:55,120
that. It won't change the town's form of

7100
04:56:55,120 --> 04:56:57,440
government, the council mayor and their

7101
04:56:57,440 --> 04:56:59,680
terms. Um won't alter the municipal code

7102
04:56:59,680 --> 04:57:02,320
or existing law. will not affect any

7103
04:57:02,320 --> 04:57:05,120
public contracting or prevailing wage

7104
04:57:05,120 --> 04:57:07,760
rules. That's important. Will not change

7105
04:57:07,760 --> 04:57:10,320
any local election procedures and will

7106
04:57:10,320 --> 04:57:13,200
not limit any changes to this in the

7107
04:57:13,200 --> 04:57:16,958
future through council or voter options.

7108
04:57:16,958 --> 04:57:19,600
So, here's our path to the November 3rd,

7109
04:57:19,600 --> 04:57:24,320
2026 ballot. So, we are embarking on a

7110
04:57:24,320 --> 04:57:26,080
series of public hearings and more

7111
04:57:26,080 --> 04:57:28,400
meetings. Um, this is number one today

7112
04:57:28,400 --> 04:57:31,040
and we do have a pretty big gap because

7113
04:57:31,040 --> 04:57:32,958
there has to be at least 30 days between

7114
04:57:32,958 --> 04:57:34,480
this public hearing and the next one.

7115
04:57:34,480 --> 04:57:37,920
So, if this proceeds tonight, we would

7116
04:57:37,920 --> 04:57:40,878
move to the next meeting on June 24th.

7117
04:57:40,878 --> 04:57:43,200
And then both meetings in July will be

7118
04:57:43,200 --> 04:57:46,240
occupied with the ballot measure work um

7119
04:57:46,240 --> 04:57:48,638
to meet the filing deadline of August

7120
04:57:48,638 --> 04:57:52,320
7th. And then if the voters vote with a

7121
04:57:52,320 --> 04:57:54,480
50% plus one majority vote, it would go

7122
04:57:54,480 --> 04:57:57,520
into effect January 1st.

7123
04:57:57,520 --> 04:57:59,120
And

7124
04:57:59,120 --> 04:58:02,080
that's actually all. Hold on. Just Oh,

7125
04:58:02,080 --> 04:58:05,360
hold on. We have the public hearing. And

7126
04:58:05,360 --> 04:58:07,600
again, we have the St. Helena model. We

7127
04:58:07,600 --> 04:58:10,798
have um omitted what was questioned last

7128
04:58:10,798 --> 04:58:12,560
time by the council about a specific

7129
04:58:12,560 --> 04:58:15,200
form of government. Article 4. We didn't

7130
04:58:15,200 --> 04:58:17,200
include that. We just determined that it

7131
04:58:17,200 --> 04:58:18,718
doesn't we don't need to specify the

7132
04:58:18,718 --> 04:58:20,718
form of government in the charter since

7133
04:58:20,718 --> 04:58:23,600
you're not changing it. Um, so again,

7134
04:58:23,600 --> 04:58:25,600
the town charter's

7135
04:58:25,600 --> 04:58:28,000
attached with two pages. We will accept

7136
04:58:28,000 --> 04:58:30,798
any comments. This is not like the

7137
04:58:30,798 --> 04:58:32,638
introduction and second reading. So

7138
04:58:32,638 --> 04:58:34,480
you're free to make comments and changes

7139
04:58:34,480 --> 04:58:35,920
tonight. You're free to make comments

7140
04:58:35,920 --> 04:58:39,040
and changes at the next meeting in June.

7141
04:58:39,040 --> 04:58:44,240
Um and then with that all you need to do

7142
04:58:44,240 --> 04:58:46,240
is hold the public hearing open close

7143
04:58:46,240 --> 04:58:51,520
the public hearing put and that is all

7144
04:58:51,520 --> 04:58:54,878
tonight. Yes. Tonight sorry tonight.

7145
04:58:54,878 --> 04:58:55,200
Yeah.

7146
04:58:55,200 --> 04:58:57,600
>> Got it. Okay. And and I wanted to make

7147
04:58:57,600 --> 04:59:00,240
the point that I mean this is St. Helia

7148
04:59:00,240 --> 04:59:02,798
St. Helena's

7149
04:59:02,798 --> 04:59:05,760
charter that we're modeling not their

7150
04:59:05,760 --> 04:59:07,040
real estate transfer tax.

7151
04:59:07,040 --> 04:59:08,160
>> Correct. And that's one thing that I'm

7152
04:59:08,160 --> 04:59:09,680
concerned is I think people conflate

7153
04:59:09,680 --> 04:59:12,400
those and they had a I believe a an

7154
04:59:12,400 --> 04:59:14,480
overly complicated real estate transfer

7155
04:59:14,480 --> 04:59:16,400
tax that we are not adopting.

7156
04:59:16,400 --> 04:59:18,638
>> So this is just their charter. So with

7157
04:59:18,638 --> 04:59:21,680
that, is there any questions for staff?

7158
04:59:21,680 --> 04:59:24,480
Judith?

7159
04:59:24,480 --> 04:59:27,440
Yeah, this is nice and simple, but um I

7160
04:59:27,440 --> 04:59:30,080
need a little explanation on the

7161
04:59:30,080 --> 04:59:33,760
paragraph 100 and in particular because

7162
04:59:33,760 --> 04:59:37,120
we were trying to aim for plain vanilla.

7163
04:59:37,120 --> 04:59:40,240
Um there is a sentence that starts in

7164
04:59:40,240 --> 04:59:43,760
particular and you know we're we're

7165
04:59:43,760 --> 04:59:47,520
making it specific for a transfer tax.

7166
04:59:47,520 --> 04:59:52,958
Um so I have that the first question is that needed?

7167
04:59:52,958 --> 05:00:00,070
what's the benefit of it?

7168
05:00:00,080 --> 05:00:02,400
» I I would want to go back and think

7169
05:00:02,400 --> 05:00:05,360
about that. Um, and I Yeah, the goal was

7170
05:00:05,360 --> 05:00:06,878
certainly to make it as absolutely

7171
05:00:06,878 --> 05:00:10,480
simple as possible. Um, I thought that

7172
05:00:10,480 --> 05:00:12,240
there was some clarity in actually

7173
05:00:12,240 --> 05:00:14,320
stating the purpose of this charter so

7174
05:00:14,320 --> 05:00:17,200
there wasn't some confusion around, oh,

7175
05:00:17,200 --> 05:00:19,920
you know, the town actually wants to um

7176
05:00:19,920 --> 05:00:22,320
collect some other type of tax. Uh, and

7177
05:00:22,320 --> 05:00:24,080
I believe this language actually was

7178
05:00:24,080 --> 05:00:26,958
also in um both Elserto's and

7179
05:00:26,958 --> 05:00:27,440
>> okay

7180
05:00:27,440 --> 05:00:31,440
>> uh St. Helena's um charter language, but

7181
05:00:31,440 --> 05:00:34,160
um I think that's a good question and I

7182
05:00:34,160 --> 05:00:35,040
mean since we're going to have another

7183
05:00:35,040 --> 05:00:36,240
public hearing, I guess I'd like the

7184
05:00:36,240 --> 05:00:37,440
opportunity to think about that a little

7185
05:00:37,440 --> 05:00:39,280
bit more. Yeah, because some public

7186
05:00:39,280 --> 05:00:42,320
comment was assuming that was already

7187
05:00:42,320 --> 05:00:44,560
rolling along and this was to your

7188
05:00:44,560 --> 05:00:46,480
point, Craig,

7189
05:00:46,480 --> 05:00:48,400
like that's where we're all headed and

7190
05:00:48,400 --> 05:00:51,280
this is it and this is step one and we

7191
05:00:51,280 --> 05:00:54,000
still have to have more discussion of

7192
05:00:54,000 --> 05:00:57,200
step two. So tying it to the this one

7193
05:00:57,200 --> 05:01:00,160
approach seems premature, but if there's

7194
05:01:00,160 --> 05:01:02,320
a benefit, I'm more than happy to hear

7195
05:01:02,320 --> 05:01:05,200
about it in the future.

7196
05:01:05,200 --> 05:01:09,120
100. And then the second question

7197
05:01:09,120 --> 05:01:12,160
is um

7198
05:01:12,160 --> 05:01:16,080
the the second question is the last

7199
05:01:16,080 --> 05:01:18,000
sentence here. In the event of a

7200
05:01:18,000 --> 05:01:19,680
conflict between the charter and the

7201
05:01:19,680 --> 05:01:22,878
general law, is it understood what the

7202
05:01:22,878 --> 05:01:25,840
general law is? And is it absolutely

7203
05:01:25,840 --> 05:01:27,920
clear that we we can completely

7204
05:01:27,920 --> 05:01:30,320
supersede it? um is just good

7205
05:01:30,320 --> 05:01:33,120
housekeeping to make sure I like the

7206
05:01:33,120 --> 05:01:35,200
principal. I just want to make sure it's

7207
05:01:35,200 --> 05:01:37,280
enforcable. So, I'll leave that with you

7208
05:01:37,280 --> 05:01:40,560
to think through and I have no other

7209
05:01:40,560 --> 05:01:41,040
questions.

7210
05:01:41,040 --> 05:01:44,480
>> Great. Thank you.

7211
05:01:44,480 --> 05:01:46,878
>> Um sort of Oh, sorry.

7212
05:01:46,878 --> 05:01:48,798
>> No, no, no. Please go ahead.

7213
05:01:48,798 --> 05:01:51,120
Along the same lines that Judith was

7214
05:01:51,120 --> 05:01:54,958
asking about, um, does this constrain us

7215
05:01:54,958 --> 05:01:57,200
from in the future having a different

7216
05:01:57,200 --> 05:02:00,400
type of tax, considering a different tax

7217
05:02:00,400 --> 05:02:02,718
like a, I don't know, second home tax or

7218
05:02:02,718 --> 05:02:04,400
something like that because we've kind

7219
05:02:04,400 --> 05:02:06,480
of put this into our charter for a real

7220
05:02:06,480 --> 05:02:08,560
estate property tax. Does it constrain

7221
05:02:08,560 --> 05:02:10,000
us in any way? I mean the sentence

7222
05:02:10,000 --> 05:02:12,638
before says that we have the right to

7223
05:02:12,638 --> 05:02:14,560
imposition levy and collection of such

7224
05:02:14,560 --> 05:02:18,400
taxes but does by putting the only the

7225
05:02:18,400 --> 05:02:19,760
real estate property tax in there does

7226
05:02:19,760 --> 05:02:22,160
that constrain us from

7227
05:02:22,160 --> 05:02:24,798
considering other taxes?

7228
05:02:24,798 --> 05:02:28,320
So all other taxes can be that I think

7229
05:02:28,320 --> 05:02:31,200
the town might consider could be um

7230
05:02:31,200 --> 05:02:33,120
passed whether you're a charter city or

7231
05:02:33,120 --> 05:02:35,760
a general law charter town or a general

7232
05:02:35,760 --> 05:02:38,000
law town. Uh, so this would not

7233
05:02:38,000 --> 05:02:40,480
constrain that ability, but I think it

7234
05:02:40,480 --> 05:02:43,440
also is related to um Judith's question

7235
05:02:43,440 --> 05:02:45,200
about whether we really need it um

7236
05:02:45,200 --> 05:02:47,040
because it it could sound constraining.

7237
05:02:47,040 --> 05:02:49,200
So I I will give that some thought and

7238
05:02:49,200 --> 05:02:50,240
you know when they come back for a

7239
05:02:50,240 --> 05:02:51,440
second public hearing have a

7240
05:02:51,440 --> 05:02:53,520
recommendation about whether um we need

7241
05:02:53,520 --> 05:02:55,520
the example of the real property

7242
05:02:55,520 --> 05:02:59,280
transfer tax um to to avoid you know

7243
05:02:59,280 --> 05:03:00,958
confusion that somehow that's limiting.

7244
05:03:00,958 --> 05:03:04,638
Can can you clarify your statement of

7245
05:03:04,638 --> 05:03:07,200
being able to assess a tax as a general

7246
05:03:07,200 --> 05:03:08,718
law, city? I thought the whole point is

7247
05:03:08,718 --> 05:03:11,840
that we can't uh we can't assess the

7248
05:03:11,840 --> 05:03:14,958
real property transfer tax. What about a

7249
05:03:14,958 --> 05:03:18,480
second home tax? Is that a is that

7250
05:03:18,480 --> 05:03:20,718
something we need to be a charter town

7251
05:03:20,718 --> 05:03:22,320
for? Even

7252
05:03:22,320 --> 05:03:24,320
>> I No,

7253
05:03:24,320 --> 05:03:25,920
>> it's allowed under general law.

7254
05:03:25,920 --> 05:03:26,798
>> Yeah.

7255
05:03:26,798 --> 05:03:29,040
>> Oh, okay.

7256
05:03:29,040 --> 05:03:31,200
Same with sales tax or the parcel tax

7257
05:03:31,200 --> 05:03:33,360
option. Those could all be um you know

7258
05:03:33,360 --> 05:03:36,080
if passed by the voters uh could could

7259
05:03:36,080 --> 05:03:41,200
be assessed by a general law town.

7260
05:03:41,200 --> 05:03:43,360
And if I just follow on is the reason

7261
05:03:43,360 --> 05:03:45,200
the real estate transfer tax special is

7262
05:03:45,200 --> 05:03:47,760
it's already in general law but it's a

7263
05:03:47,760 --> 05:03:50,080
small a lower number because we are we

7264
05:03:50,080 --> 05:03:51,520
already have a real estate transfer tax.

7265
05:03:51,520 --> 05:03:52,638
It's just a lower number.

7266
05:03:52,638 --> 05:03:53,040
>> Correct.

7267
05:03:53,040 --> 05:03:55,200
>> Yeah. Okay. So Mary, did you have any

7268
05:03:55,200 --> 05:03:58,878
questions for staff? Okay. Helen. Um,

7269
05:03:58,878 --> 05:04:01,760
can I obviously like as we're dealing

7270
05:04:01,760 --> 05:04:03,600
with Mid Pen and they've had all of

7271
05:04:03,600 --> 05:04:07,440
these public meetings,

7272
05:04:07,440 --> 05:04:10,080
I am concerned, you know, it's 11:30 at

7273
05:04:10,080 --> 05:04:12,480
night, we've got five people online or

7274
05:04:12,480 --> 05:04:15,280
whatever, right? That that that the town

7275
05:04:15,280 --> 05:04:18,320
is not aware fully aware of what's going

7276
05:04:18,320 --> 05:04:21,600
on. So, I'm very like I'd very much like

7277
05:04:21,600 --> 05:04:27,200
clarity on what the council what we can

7278
05:04:27,200 --> 05:04:28,718
like I know we're not supposed to

7279
05:04:28,718 --> 05:04:33,680
advocate right legally. Um,

7280
05:04:33,680 --> 05:04:35,840
but can like could the town do like a

7281
05:04:35,840 --> 05:04:37,920
popup at Roberts kind of thing during

7282
05:04:37,920 --> 05:04:39,680
the week or something to help do

7283
05:04:39,680 --> 05:04:41,920
outreach like to help let people know

7284
05:04:41,920 --> 05:04:46,000
what's going on kind of thing?

7285
05:04:46,000 --> 05:04:46,400
So,

7286
05:04:46,400 --> 05:04:49,680
>> and can I add to that? I mean, are we

7287
05:04:49,680 --> 05:04:51,760
restricted from advocating? I know once

7288
05:04:51,760 --> 05:04:53,920
it's on the ballot, we are. So, after

7289
05:04:53,920 --> 05:04:56,160
August 7th, we are, but between now and

7290
05:04:56,160 --> 05:04:57,680
then, are we?

7291
05:04:57,680 --> 05:04:59,520
>> So, it's a little fuzzy, but there's

7292
05:04:59,520 --> 05:05:02,000
never any prohibition regarding

7293
05:05:02,000 --> 05:05:04,080
providing information. And I think the

7294
05:05:04,080 --> 05:05:06,638
example provided here popup um would

7295
05:05:06,638 --> 05:05:08,560
beformational.

7296
05:05:08,560 --> 05:05:11,840
uh the FBC which enforces these rules

7297
05:05:11,840 --> 05:05:14,958
about no campaigning um with use of

7298
05:05:14,958 --> 05:05:17,920
public funds um does not always draw a

7299
05:05:17,920 --> 05:05:20,878
super bright line um at the point of

7300
05:05:20,878 --> 05:05:25,040
place placement on the ballot. So you know I recommend being cautious and

7301
05:05:25,040 --> 05:05:28,000
mindful that to avoid use of public

7302
05:05:28,000 --> 05:05:30,080
funds for advocate. Now if you want on

7303
05:05:30,080 --> 05:05:32,240
your free time do some advocating that's

7304
05:05:32,240 --> 05:05:33,120
fine.

7305
05:05:33,120 --> 05:05:37,200
>> Perfect. And so for instance like at

7306
05:05:37,200 --> 05:05:38,958
farmers market or something if we were

7307
05:05:38,958 --> 05:05:41,440
to set up and say like information this

7308
05:05:41,440 --> 05:05:43,760
is what's going on that's okay to do.

7309
05:05:43,760 --> 05:05:48,240
>> Yeah. And I would I would encourage you

7310
05:05:48,240 --> 05:05:53,040
to use the Portell Valley Post as a good

7311
05:05:53,040 --> 05:05:55,120
source of information. The back the

7312
05:05:55,120 --> 05:05:57,040
front has information about our

7313
05:05:57,040 --> 05:06:00,160
priorities which this is focused on as

7314
05:06:00,160 --> 05:06:01,440
well and then the back has the

7315
05:06:01,440 --> 05:06:03,520
information and the back has the date of

7316
05:06:03,520 --> 05:06:05,040
this meeting and again it went out to

7317
05:06:05,040 --> 05:06:06,798
every house

7318
05:06:06,798 --> 05:06:09,680
in Porta Valley.

7319
05:06:09,680 --> 05:06:11,200
>> Yeah. So,

7320
05:06:11,200 --> 05:06:14,000
>> okay. Just I want to make sure like

7321
05:06:14,000 --> 05:06:16,000
think like trying to get clarity of what

7322
05:06:16,000 --> 05:06:17,920
we could do or not do

7323
05:06:17,920 --> 05:06:19,520
>> and and send those questions to us

7324
05:06:19,520 --> 05:06:21,440
offline, but yeah, this would be a good

7325
05:06:21,440 --> 05:06:23,440
place to start and we have some extras

7326
05:06:23,440 --> 05:06:25,840
if you want to hand some out and we can

7327
05:06:25,840 --> 05:06:28,320
also do the table at the farmers market

7328
05:06:28,320 --> 05:06:30,160
or at Roberts. That's a good idea.

7329
05:06:30,160 --> 05:06:31,680
>> Thank you.

7330
05:06:31,680 --> 05:06:37,520
>> Can I ask another kind of question? Can we if someone has a pro or con to

7331
05:06:37,520 --> 05:06:39,840
it? Are we is it part of information to

7332
05:06:39,840 --> 05:06:42,400
provide the other side of it or is that

7333
05:06:42,400 --> 05:06:47,590
starting to get into advocacy?

7334
05:06:47,600 --> 05:06:49,120
» I guess I might want a little bit more

7335
05:06:49,120 --> 05:06:52,718
examples of the of the pro and the con.

7336
05:06:52,718 --> 05:06:54,480
Um we certainly can inform people that

7337
05:06:54,480 --> 05:06:56,878
we have the public hearing process and

7338
05:06:56,878 --> 05:07:01,280
please come. Uh we welcome all views. Um

7339
05:07:01,280 --> 05:07:02,798
I don't think we're going to be putting

7340
05:07:02,798 --> 05:07:05,520
out pros and cons with use of public

7341
05:07:05,520 --> 05:07:07,040
resource. even if it's balanced, it's I

7342
05:07:07,040 --> 05:07:08,400
don't I don't think we're going to do

7343
05:07:08,400 --> 05:07:10,958
that. Um, so

7344
05:07:10,958 --> 05:07:12,160
but if you have any other examples,

7345
05:07:12,160 --> 05:07:13,840
happy to. No, I'm just thinking in terms

7346
05:07:13,840 --> 05:07:16,000
of if we were set up outside here at the

7347
05:07:16,000 --> 05:07:17,920
farmers market to provide information

7348
05:07:17,920 --> 05:07:21,040
and someone said, "I hate taxes."

7349
05:07:21,040 --> 05:07:22,718
What, you know, what would we be allowed

7350
05:07:22,718 --> 05:07:26,958
to say in terms of why this is needed or

7351
05:07:26,958 --> 05:07:27,760
whatever?

7352
05:07:27,760 --> 05:07:29,920
>> The red, the black line,

7353
05:07:29,920 --> 05:07:31,600
>> well, the black line and what the

7354
05:07:31,600 --> 05:07:33,040
finance committee has gone through. I

7355
05:07:33,040 --> 05:07:34,400
think we can speak to all that. That's

7356
05:07:34,400 --> 05:07:38,718
all in the public record. So,

7357
05:07:38,718 --> 05:07:41,280
Ellen, anything else? Okay. Um, so then

7358
05:07:41,280 --> 05:07:43,840
the only question I have, um, so the

7359
05:07:43,840 --> 05:07:45,440
Jarvis initiative, which is trying to

7360
05:07:45,440 --> 05:07:48,638
limit this, um, if that were to pass,

7361
05:07:48,638 --> 05:07:52,320
then our issues, as I understand it, is

7362
05:07:52,320 --> 05:07:55,040
if ours is certified first, then we have

7363
05:07:55,040 --> 05:07:56,638
some short period,

7364
05:07:56,638 --> 05:08:00,160
>> two years, and if we're certified after,

7365
05:08:00,160 --> 05:08:02,958
then it's null and void at the gecko. or

7366
05:08:02,958 --> 05:08:04,160
do we still have two years?

7367
05:08:04,160 --> 05:08:05,680
>> Uh, it would be null and void at the

7368
05:08:05,680 --> 05:08:08,160
get-go. And I will say um I am doing

7369
05:08:08,160 --> 05:08:11,600
some research um with staff to on the

7370
05:08:11,600 --> 05:08:12,958
specific dates that we can expect

7371
05:08:12,958 --> 05:08:14,958
certification of our results. I mean, I

7372
05:08:14,958 --> 05:08:16,320
think normally we wait and have a

7373
05:08:16,320 --> 05:08:18,320
regular council meeting to certify those

7374
05:08:18,320 --> 05:08:20,000
results, but we might actually schedule

7375
05:08:20,000 --> 05:08:22,000
a special meeting the next day. Um so

7376
05:08:22,000 --> 05:08:24,000
we'll at the next opportunity we'll have

7377
05:08:24,000 --> 05:08:27,040
some more um information about the

7378
05:08:27,040 --> 05:08:29,600
specific timing of election results.

7379
05:08:29,600 --> 05:08:32,000
Okay. And just so that you probably

7380
05:08:32,000 --> 05:08:34,958
know, uh, the Howard Jarvis

7381
05:08:34,958 --> 05:08:36,560
ballot measure has qualified as my

7382
05:08:36,560 --> 05:08:38,638
>> understand it's qualified. Yeah. I mean,

7383
05:08:38,638 --> 05:08:39,840
there's still a question of whether

7384
05:08:39,840 --> 05:08:41,120
it'll get pulled and whether to

7385
05:08:41,120 --> 05:08:42,320
negotiate and a bunch of other stuff,

7386
05:08:42,320 --> 05:08:44,480
but but at the moment it's qualified is

7387
05:08:44,480 --> 05:08:45,280
my understanding.

7388
05:08:45,280 --> 05:08:47,920
>> And the negotiations are not going well.

7389
05:08:47,920 --> 05:08:50,798
>> And do they have to have 50% plus one or

7390
05:08:50,798 --> 05:08:51,760
twothirds?

7391
05:08:51,760 --> 05:08:53,920
>> Well, for for us to pass

7392
05:08:53,920 --> 05:08:55,920
>> No, theirs. Jarvis,

7393
05:08:55,920 --> 05:08:58,160
>> I think it's 50.

7394
05:08:58,160 --> 05:09:00,400
Good question.

7395
05:09:00,400 --> 05:09:02,160
They would say it's 50% plus one, but my

7396
05:09:02,160 --> 05:09:04,160
understanding is there's some there's

7397
05:09:04,160 --> 05:09:05,920
some effort in the legislature to force

7398
05:09:05,920 --> 05:09:11,040
a um a twothirds on theirs.

7399
05:09:11,040 --> 05:09:13,920
>> Okay. All right. Any other questions?

7400
05:09:13,920 --> 05:09:15,440
We're not into discussion yet. All

7401
05:09:15,440 --> 05:09:18,080
right. So, it's now time to open the

7402
05:09:18,080 --> 05:09:20,798
public hearing. So, I will open the

7403
05:09:20,798 --> 05:09:22,958
public hearing. There's nobody in the

7404
05:09:22,958 --> 05:09:26,480
schoolhouse. We have five people online.

7405
05:09:26,480 --> 05:09:29,680
Does anybody have comments?

7406
05:09:29,680 --> 05:09:31,840
I'll give people a moment to raise their

7407
05:09:31,840 --> 05:09:34,948
hands.

7408
05:09:34,958 --> 05:09:37,200
All right, seeing no hands, I'm going to

7409
05:09:37,200 --> 05:09:40,240
close public comment.

7410
05:09:40,240 --> 05:09:44,480
So, what else do we need to do tonight

7411
05:09:44,480 --> 05:09:48,628
in terms of this item?

7412
05:09:48,638 --> 05:09:50,320
» Uh I think I have sufficient direction

7413
05:09:50,320 --> 05:09:52,160
in terms of the questions regarding the

7414
05:09:52,160 --> 05:09:53,680
charter language itself.

7415
05:09:53,680 --> 05:09:55,600
>> Okay. And I think we have some direction

7416
05:09:55,600 --> 05:09:57,440
in terms of providing information to the

7417
05:09:57,440 --> 05:09:59,680
community about the public hearing

7418
05:09:59,680 --> 05:10:01,440
process and the charter.

7419
05:10:01,440 --> 05:10:04,240
>> Great. And and it's my hope back to this

7420
05:10:04,240 --> 05:10:05,440
sort of question of how how we're going

7421
05:10:05,440 --> 05:10:07,600
to get information out to the public. I

7422
05:10:07,600 --> 05:10:09,760
I'm already starting to work on sort of

7423
05:10:09,760 --> 05:10:11,840
a PowerPoint that I'd like to take out

7424
05:10:11,840 --> 05:10:14,000
to the community. Um which just shows

7425
05:10:14,000 --> 05:10:15,040
the stuff that we've talked about the

7426
05:10:15,040 --> 05:10:16,480
finance committee. It just, you know,

7427
05:10:16,480 --> 05:10:18,160
shows our expenses and our revenues, but

7428
05:10:18,160 --> 05:10:20,080
it also talks about why we're a town and

7429
05:10:20,080 --> 05:10:24,240
talks about the general plan. And I I'm going to be willing to talk to

7430
05:10:24,240 --> 05:10:26,480
anybody, you know, any 10 people who

7431
05:10:26,480 --> 05:10:29,440
want to invite me. I I will go.

7432
05:10:29,440 --> 05:10:31,680
>> So, I would I don't know if you'd be

7433
05:10:31,680 --> 05:10:33,760
willing to share your slide deck, but

7434
05:10:33,760 --> 05:10:35,280
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not done with it

7435
05:10:35,280 --> 05:10:36,480
yet, but yes, when I have a finished

7436
05:10:36,480 --> 05:10:38,480
deck, I Yeah, I think I can do that. I

7437
05:10:38,480 --> 05:10:39,680
probably have to do in a public meeting

7438
05:10:39,680 --> 05:10:41,600
or something, but I'm I'm happy to share

7439
05:10:41,600 --> 05:10:42,080
it.

7440
05:10:42,080 --> 05:10:44,160
>> You can provide a one-directional email.

7441
05:10:44,160 --> 05:10:45,520
>> There you go. Fine. One directional

7442
05:10:45,520 --> 05:10:48,080
email. I I'll give it to Darcy and she

7443
05:10:48,080 --> 05:10:49,600
does that.

7444
05:10:49,600 --> 05:10:51,440
There there is a process point here

7445
05:10:51,440 --> 05:10:54,000
though um because it is in every all of

7446
05:10:54,000 --> 05:10:56,080
the council members interest to provide

7447
05:10:56,080 --> 05:10:58,000
the information when the opportunity

7448
05:10:58,000 --> 05:11:02,400
arises and keeping it as consistent as

7449
05:11:02,400 --> 05:11:04,080
you know reasonably possible makes

7450
05:11:04,080 --> 05:11:07,920
sense. So I mean if I if I come up with

7451
05:11:07,920 --> 05:11:09,440
a different set of talking points if I

7452
05:11:09,440 --> 05:11:11,520
hear people asking questions in a

7453
05:11:11,520 --> 05:11:13,840
certain way I'm not sure how to handle

7454
05:11:13,840 --> 05:11:16,958
that. like do I do I

7455
05:11:16,958 --> 05:11:19,200
put it for reaction to Darcy and

7456
05:11:19,200 --> 05:11:20,718
Catherine

7457
05:11:20,718 --> 05:11:22,958
and just for their information and they

7458
05:11:22,958 --> 05:11:26,160
can give input on whether it's accurate.

7459
05:11:26,160 --> 05:11:28,400
Like I'm not quite sure how to do this

7460
05:11:28,400 --> 05:11:31,680
and I want to be very deliberate about

7461
05:11:31,680 --> 05:11:34,160
not not emphasizing things in

7462
05:11:34,160 --> 05:11:37,120
inappropriate ways. So, what what is

7463
05:11:37,120 --> 05:11:40,400
maybe you can get back to us on if we've

7464
05:11:40,400 --> 05:11:42,718
got like maybe Craig's talking to

7465
05:11:42,718 --> 05:11:45,200
broader points and I know the audience I

7466
05:11:45,200 --> 05:11:48,080
want to give an update to has, you know,

7467
05:11:48,080 --> 05:11:50,320
a different angle. I'm just going to

7468
05:11:50,320 --> 05:11:52,798
want to be consistent if I can be and

7469
05:11:52,798 --> 05:11:54,958
like let me know how that might be

7470
05:11:54,958 --> 05:11:57,520
achieved.

7471
05:11:57,520 --> 05:11:58,320
>> Great. Thank you.

7472
05:11:58,320 --> 05:12:00,240
>> Will there be a Q&A? Are we going to

7473
05:12:00,240 --> 05:12:02,480
have a section on the website or what's

7474
05:12:02,480 --> 05:12:03,120
the

7475
05:12:03,120 --> 05:12:05,760
>> I think we already have a Q&A on the

7476
05:12:05,760 --> 05:12:08,400
website, but should be off that

7477
05:12:08,400 --> 05:12:10,000
community engagement page, but we're

7478
05:12:10,000 --> 05:12:11,360
continuing to build it all the time. And

7479
05:12:11,360 --> 05:12:13,440
I would say if you get questions, send

7480
05:12:13,440 --> 05:12:16,560
them to me one one way only to me and

7481
05:12:16,560 --> 05:12:19,840
then I can add them or add them to my

7482
05:12:19,840 --> 05:12:21,920
we're sending out another postcard and

7483
05:12:21,920 --> 05:12:23,680
then the next quarterly newsletter. So,

7484
05:12:23,680 --> 05:12:25,600
it would be helpful for me to know what

7485
05:12:25,600 --> 05:12:27,040
kind of questions we're getting so we

7486
05:12:27,040 --> 05:12:29,680
can ensure we get the information out.

7487
05:12:29,680 --> 05:12:30,878
>> Yeah. No, that seems great. I'd say,

7488
05:12:30,878 --> 05:12:32,000
yeah, if we get questions, let's send

7489
05:12:32,000 --> 05:12:34,718
them to Darcy because getting an FAQ up

7490
05:12:34,718 --> 05:12:36,400
so that they're all there and then we

7491
05:12:36,400 --> 05:12:38,080
can all refer to it as well so that when

7492
05:12:38,080 --> 05:12:40,240
we go out to talk to people, we're all,

7493
05:12:40,240 --> 05:12:41,920
you know, given the same answer. So,

7494
05:12:41,920 --> 05:12:46,080
okay, great. Um, so we've closed public

7495
05:12:46,080 --> 05:12:48,480
hearing. We've dealt with this item. I

7496
05:12:48,480 --> 05:12:49,840
think there's nothing else to do. Is

7497
05:12:49,840 --> 05:12:52,080
that Am I missing anything? All right.

7498
05:12:52,080 --> 05:12:55,040
So I would entertain a motion.

7499
05:12:55,040 --> 05:12:56,080
>> So moved.

7500
05:12:56,080 --> 05:12:57,760
>> Second.

7501
05:12:57,760 --> 05:13:00,878
All in favor? I. All right. Good night.

7502
05:13:00,878 --> 05:13:02,560
Thank you everyone. I know it's been a

7503
05:13:02,560 --> 05:13:06,480
long night. Um, excellent work.