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Good evening. I'd like to call to order

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the June 18th meeting of the Bellingham

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Planning Commission. Um, would you

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please call the role?

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» My cast

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» Here.

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» Jed Blue

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» Here. Jerry Richmond

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» Here.

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» Lisa Marks

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» Here.

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» Claire Swingle

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» Here. Rose Leip

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» Here.

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[snorts]

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» Okay. Tonight we have no um minutes to

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approve and we have two items on the

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agenda. We have uh we're going to

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discuss and vote to approve the home

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occupation code um as well as we're

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going to discuss and provide direction

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related to the landmark tree ordinance

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and um creating a chapter of that in the

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code. [snorts]

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Starting out we since this is a public

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hearing we will open to public

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testimony. uh you can talk about

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whatever uh you'd like that's not

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related to the issues at hand. Three

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minutes, please. And please uh

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» Thank you.

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» Good afternoon, commissioners and staff.

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My name is Miles Silverman and I'm from

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the Cordata neighborhood. I would like

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to comment on the proposed future

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residential zoning map that staff showed

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at a recent commission meeting which

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although it was thankfully less

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Byzantine than the existing map was

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quite similar in its distribution of

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allowed development intensity. This

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would make sense if that current

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distribution aligned with the sort of

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vibrant equitable sustainable city we

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want to build and I am not convinced it

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does. At the meeting where the map was

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shown, a commissioner suggested

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determining intensity based on proximity

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to interesting things which I think is

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an excellent approach. When I look at

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the existing map, however, it appears to

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have been drawn with other priorities in

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mind and changes in transportation land

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use since many of its boundaries were

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drawn exacerbate these issues. Consider

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the Sunnyland and Roosevelt zoning maps

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where the zoning south of Alabama is

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strictly higher density than it is north

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of Alabama. in Sunnyland. Perhaps this

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could make some sense based on proximity

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to downtown, but the abruptness of the

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decrease in density doesn't fit this.

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And with the gold line in operation now,

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ending higher density at Alabama doesn't

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make sense anymore. I will [snorts] note

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if the base zoning is different on each

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side of Alabama, a TOD overlay like

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those planned would probably not erase

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this imbalance. In addition, the blocks

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north of Alabama are lower density in

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Sunnyland than in Roosevelt. This

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probably aligns more with who went to

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neighborhood meetings 50 years ago than

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anything else and certainly doesn't gel

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with proximity to interesting things.

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Furthermore, some parts of Roosevelt

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near Barkley Village are lower density

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than than those farther away. Perhaps

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this made sense at one point, but now

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that these areas are close to the

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increasingly most interesting place in

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that part of town, enforcing a sleepy

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streetscape is difficult to justified.

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Finally, consider the narrow borders of

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multif family housing around inner urban

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villages like the Fountain District,

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while Birwood Center has a wider area

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where apartments are allowed. This makes

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sense only if we are trying to limit how

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much of the inner neighborhoods have to

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allow apartments, which once again does

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not support proximity to interesting

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things. If Birwood Center can have some

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small apartment throughout its entire

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walkshed, so can Fair Haven in the

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Fountain District. In conclusion, let's

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be ambitious and creative with our

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residential zoning boundaries so they

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match the sort of city we want to build.

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Thank you.

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» Thank you.

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» Anyone else for the public comment?

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Is there anybody online?

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Okay, I guess we'll get into the heart

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of it. we have the two topics to discuss

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and so not sure which of you is gonna

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jump in but

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thanks

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will come up soon.

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Thank you for your patience.

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All right. Well, hello everybody. Thank

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you for being here tonight. Um, my name

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is Sydney Prusac for those of you that

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don't know me and I'm back with my

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colleague Sarah Omen to discuss the

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proposed updates to our home occupation

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code.

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Here is the outline for tonight. Um,

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I'll give a quick refresher on the topic

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background and existing regulations and

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then Sarah will discuss our proposed

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updates. Then we'll ask you all for an

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official recommendation to city council.

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As I mentioned at our previous work

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session, and it's explained further in

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the meeting materials, during our public

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engagement for the Bellingham plan, we

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heard a lot of community feedback and

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support for more services and amenities

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that people could walk to from their

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home regardless of where they lived in

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town. This led to several comp plan

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policies uh encouraging what we refer to

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as a complete neighborhood, complete

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neighborhoods um separately but also

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connected. There is a community need for

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smaller and more affordable business

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incubator space for entrepreneurs just

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starting out or wanting to grow their

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business. So, with these two needs in

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mind, it seemed like the right time to

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update our home occupation code,

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especially following the adoption of the

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Bellingham plan last December. Um, like

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I alluded to on April 2nd, we presented

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an overview of our proposed code updates

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with you at a work session, and we

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received general support from you all on

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the proposed updates, got some feedback,

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and then went and drafted an ordinance

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based on that meeting and our research.

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Um, and finally, just breaking news.

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Just of this week, on Monday, June 15th,

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Mayor Kim Lond issued an executive order

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directing city action to expand economic

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opportunity, strengthen the city center,

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support businesses and entrepreneurs,

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and build the partnerships needed to

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make Bellingham more prosperous and

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affordable for all. So, that is word for

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word from the executive order. And um

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again, it's just really amazing timing.

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One of the actions in that order

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specifically states advanced policies

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that support small-scale commercial

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activity in residential neighborhoods,

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enabling homebased businesses,

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neighborhood serving retail, and corner

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store uses that encourage

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entrepreneurship, walkability, and

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economic life close to home. So, the

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timing of this order and this code

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update is very fertuitous and staff

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believes that the proposal before you

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tonight advances the mayor's directive.

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Um, I don't want to repeat too much from

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our work session presentation, but I do

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want to reiterate this graphic to better

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explain why we're updating our home

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occupation code now. And as a refresher,

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we use this graphic throughout the

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Bellingham plan engagement process to

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frame conversations around allowing

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commercial small-cale commercial uses in

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residential neighborhoods. Um, currently

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we are at level one that allows inhome

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businesses. Under specific conditions,

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home occupations are allowed within

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residences. We what we're proposing with

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this code update is to move to level two

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of the continuum and allow separated inh

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home businesses like an accessory

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building or above a garage.

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As we update our resident residential

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code to be in compliance with the new

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comprehensive plan and state law, we

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plan to incorporate small-cale

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commercial uses at a certain scale in

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residential neighborhoods which would

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get us to level three of the continuum.

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And while that residential that greater

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residential code update will take some

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time to come into fruition, we want to

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expand the home occupation code now, so

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they're in scale with the future

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updates. And I alluded to this and

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mentioned it at our past work session,

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but it doesn't really make sense if

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we're going to allow standalone

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commercial uses like restaurants or bars

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or cafes and then continue to prohibit a

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homebased business from selling goods in

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conjunction with the service they

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provide um or prohibit them from um

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operating within an accessory building.

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So, we just wanted to all be at scale

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when those updates come forward. And so

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just for some more context before Sarah

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gets into the proposed updates, I want

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to go over the existing regulations of

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home occupations in Bellingham. And

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first of all, home occupations exists

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all throughout Bellingham already. Pull

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up Google Maps and you'll see a variety

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of homebased businesses scattered

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throughout town. Our current home

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occupation regulations require

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businesses to operate within the home.

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um they prohibit any exterior

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modification of the home for the

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business. They limit the number of

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employees um to one in addition of the

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um occupant and then they also prohibit

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retail sales. So these restrictions are

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quite limiting for homebased businesses

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and we want to expand these allowances.

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However, we still need some regulations

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to ensure that residential structures

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retain their primary use as residential

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uses to um retain our existing housing

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stock and also to minimize impacts on

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neighbors. And we know the community

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wants more services and businesses close

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to home and expanding home occupations

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is a great way to get that started at a

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smaller scale. Um so now we're going to

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get more into the proposed updates. I'm

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going to turn it over to Sarah and then

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we'll open it up for discussion and a

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vote. Thank you.

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Thanks, Sydney.

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Um, so the draft ordinance is included

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in your packet for tonight's meeting and

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I'll be going over the main changes that

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we are considering. Um, so when we

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started researching best practices, we

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came upon a journal article published by

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the American Planning Association that

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recommended a tiered approach to home

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occupations. Um, where that first tier

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establishes uses that are permitexempt

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and then it goes on to the next tier

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where there are administrative permit

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reviews for non-controversial uses. Then

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that third tier is a discretionary

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permit um for uses that may have impacts

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that require mitigation.

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Um so the proposed code update that we

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have before you implements these

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objectives. Um, permitexempt uses are

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maintained and the ordinance proposes an

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administrative permit pathway for most

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[snorts] all home occupations

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um while requiring a discretionary

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permit process for uses that could

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create more impacts such as woodworking.

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the discretionary permit process. It

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works really similar to like an

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administrative conditional use permit

280
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:44,720
where there is uh public notice and

281
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,120
staff review for a for compliance with

282
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,279
approval criteria.

283
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,920
The proposed ordinance also allows home

284
00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:55,279
occupations to be operated within either

285
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:57,440
a dwelling or an accessory building like

286
00:12:55,279 --> 00:13:00,399
a garage on the same property as the

287
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,880
dwelling. For years, we've had to turn

288
00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:05,440
away home businesses that wanted to

289
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,600
operate within a garage or a workshop on

290
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,519
their property. And now we're reducing

291
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,440
that barrier.

292
00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:14,560
Home occupations are proposed to be

293
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,040
limited to 500 square ft unless approved

294
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:20,079
through a discretionary permit. And in

295
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:22,959
no case can a home occupation exceed 50%

296
00:13:20,079 --> 00:13:25,200
of the gross floor area of the residence

297
00:13:22,959 --> 00:13:28,000
to ensure that the business is never the

298
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:30,320
predominant use of the property.

299
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,160
This threshold was specifically chosen

300
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,560
because the building code actually

301
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:37,279
exempts home occupations that are 500

302
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:39,360
square feet or less in size from having

303
00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:42,079
to comply with all of the commercial

304
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,160
building code requirements.

305
00:13:42,079 --> 00:13:46,079
Structural enlargements will be allowed

306
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,839
to the residence or accessory building

307
00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:50,079
for the purpose of conducting the home

308
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:51,839
occupation. So this could mean a home

309
00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:54,560
baker could expand their kitchen for

310
00:13:51,839 --> 00:13:57,519
their business. And the ordinance seeks

311
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:59,839
to balance the increased flexibility for

312
00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:02,480
the business owners and mitigate impacts

313
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:04,800
of the business. An effective way to

314
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:07,680
manage impacts is to contain that

315
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:10,240
business. Uh outdoor storage will be

316
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:12,800
prohibited and all operations of a home

317
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,880
occupation must take place within a

318
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,279
building.

319
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:20,320
The ordinance proposes to increase the

320
00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:22,959
number of employees allowed from one to

321
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:25,920
three per home occupation to help

322
00:14:22,959 --> 00:14:28,160
businesses grow and evolve.

323
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,240
Retail sales of products made on site

324
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,240
under certain terms and conditions will

325
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,320
be allowed. We want to provide an

326
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:37,120
opportunity for artisans to sell

327
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,199
products from their home studios. And

328
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,040
retail sales will also be allowed when

329
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:43,920
in conjunction with a personal service

330
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:46,560
or other use. for example, allowing a

331
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,480
hairdresser to sell shampoo.

332
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,639
And the draft ordinance will limit hours

333
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,199
of operation for those discretionary

334
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:55,199
home occupations to traditional working

335
00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:57,680
hours of Monday through Friday, 8:00

336
00:14:55,199 --> 00:15:00,000
a.m. to 5:00 p.m.

337
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,079
Fleet dispatch centers for landscaping,

338
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,639
contracting, or similar will be

339
00:15:02,079 --> 00:15:06,959
prohibited. This use has been

340
00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:09,600
problematic in the past, and we did a

341
00:15:06,959 --> 00:15:11,839
lot of research and other jurisdictions

342
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,720
expressly prohibit them. So, we are

343
00:15:11,839 --> 00:15:16,720
following suit and an operations plan

344
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,120
will be required for discretionary home

345
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,600
occupations, which can really help staff

346
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,920
and the community understand how the

347
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,839
operator intends to mitigate potential

348
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,320
impacts.

349
00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:30,399
And the proposed update will require all

350
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,279
home occupations comply with local,

351
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:36,079
state, and federal regulations.

352
00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:38,399
Finally, the city's transportation group

353
00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:41,279
has determined that home occupations

354
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:43,360
less than 500 square feet are accessory

355
00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:45,760
to a dwelling unit and the traffic

356
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,240
impact fee paid with the dwelling unit

357
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:51,199
mitigates any transportation impacts

358
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,199
related to its accessory uses. So, the

359
00:15:51,199 --> 00:15:55,279
proposed ordinance is going to exempt

360
00:15:53,199 --> 00:15:57,600
home occupations that are 500 square

361
00:15:55,279 --> 00:16:00,399
feet or less from transportation

362
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,880
concurrency requirements, which reduces

363
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:04,320
financial barriers to small businesses

364
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,120
that are just trying to get up and

365
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,519
running. This concludes our summary of

366
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,959
the proposed code update. We think that

367
00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:13,120
this restructuring of the home

368
00:16:10,959 --> 00:16:15,839
occupation permitting requirements and

369
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,920
regulations will effectively balance

370
00:16:15,839 --> 00:16:20,160
business opportunities and mitigate

371
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,880
business impacts in a manner that

372
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,959
implements the community's goals and is

373
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,199
consistent with the mayor's economic

374
00:16:24,959 --> 00:16:29,120
development executive order. And this

375
00:16:27,199 --> 00:16:32,920
concludes our presentation and we're

376
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,920
available for any questions.

377
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,240
» Okay, we'd open it up to public comment

378
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,079
at this time.

379
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:43,079
If anyone's here wants to comment on

380
00:16:40,079 --> 00:16:43,079
this.

381
00:16:44,959 --> 00:16:51,800
Okay.

382
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:51,800
Anybody want to kick it off?

383
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,240
» I uh I like all the new language. I like

384
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,480
what you did with it. I love the tiered

385
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,039
approach and the uh the administrative

386
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,799
permit. I think that's kind of what we

387
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:11,679
were touching on the last meeting and

388
00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:13,039
that's a a great way to solve it. Nice

389
00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:16,280
work.

390
00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:16,280
» Thank you.

391
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,400
I

392
00:17:17,919 --> 00:17:23,199
» I had a question about the um hours of

393
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:26,000
operation. Uh what was the thought

394
00:17:23,199 --> 00:17:28,960
process in particular for weekend hours?

395
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,280
Um what was the reasoning for um not

396
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,640
allowing that to be part of the

397
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:37,120
operating hours of the home business?

398
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,280
Um, so when we were looking at the types

399
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:42,240
of uses that are in that class C

400
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:45,440
category, they can be noisy. So it's

401
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,440
woodworking, welding, machining. Um, so

402
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,679
we were trying to strike that balance

403
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,320
of, you know, what allows somebody to

404
00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:54,880
effectively operate a full-time business

405
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,480
while still allowing neighbors to like

406
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,120
have quiet enjoyment of their

407
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,679
properties. So we went with traditional

408
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:03,760
working hours. At first, we looked at

409
00:18:01,679 --> 00:18:06,559
the construction hours that are already

410
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,799
codified in the municipal code, but

411
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:11,200
those are from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.,

412
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:14,080
which felt like a lot and could affect

413
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:16,160
people's sleep schedules, etc. So, we

414
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,240
kind of went with a conservative

415
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,799
traditional approach that isn't codified

416
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,760
elsewhere, but we thought it struck the

417
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:25,039
best balance.

418
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,880
I think the only thing that I'd like to

419
00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:29,520
add to that is that the um the code

420
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,919
actually allows for the director to

421
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,640
restrict or expand those hours as well.

422
00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:36,400
So take for example, you've got um

423
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,200
someone that wants to do something on

424
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,600
the on the weekends. If we notice that

425
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,160
and say they wanted to operate Tuesday

426
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,400
through Saturday um at those same time

427
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,840
periods, then we can notice that, take

428
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,919
public comment on it. If we don't have

429
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:53,760
any concerns, we've got the flexibility

430
00:18:49,919 --> 00:18:53,760
to expand those hours as well.

431
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,520
Um, I guess I I agree. I feel like a lot

432
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,799
of our concerns last time were around

433
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,799
the like class C ones and how do we get

434
00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:10,320
one rule that covers everything. So, I

435
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:13,039
think the tears do a really nice job

436
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:16,559
with that. So, the great thought. Um, I

437
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:18,000
guess my question um I feel like I'm in

438
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:19,600
agreement with with all the changes we

439
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,480
discussed a lot of a lot of this last

440
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,960
time. So just thankful for you guys and

441
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,200
your work for putting that language in.

442
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,799
I guess my thought is just around the

443
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,760
your question is just around the future

444
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:33,679
process because I know Nelson's market

445
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,520
came up a billion times and that's the

446
00:19:33,679 --> 00:19:38,240
the example I hear from everyone all the

447
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,480
time you know um and per I hadn't heard

448
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,799
of the executive order so I may have the

449
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,960
language wrong but the referencing the

450
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:46,720
corner stores and that kind of thing. So

451
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,400
just wondering what the process is for

452
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:53,520
then um getting to those lower stages in

453
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,880
your in your image after this is done.

454
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,960
Thanks.

455
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,039
» Yeah, that's a great question. So right

456
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:02,080
now um we're in the process of just

457
00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:04,320
cracking open our entire code. So while

458
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,480
we work on our residential code, the

459
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,400
main priority right now is coming into

460
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:12,080
compliance with state law, House Bill

461
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:15,679
1110, and other regulations that have to

462
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:17,360
be met to make sure that we're um

463
00:20:15,679 --> 00:20:19,200
following through on our comp plan goals

464
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:22,799
and policies. So that's the first step.

465
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:25,520
But in our work plan for next year, um I

466
00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:28,159
know it is a lot to commit to something

467
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,080
on record right now at the meeting, but

468
00:20:28,159 --> 00:20:32,880
we are scheduled to set that process

469
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,640
next year or the in the next few years

470
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,960
for the small scale commercials. So that

471
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,440
will be implemented with the residential

472
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,679
code, figuring out setbacks, delivery

473
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,840
schedules, if it's going to be only

474
00:20:41,679 --> 00:20:46,240
allowed on corners, only allowed on

475
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,240
arterials, allowed everywhere. And then

476
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,080
in the mix too, we brought this up at

477
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,320
the last meeting, but for the past three

478
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,880
years, I think there's been a bill at

479
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,440
the state level that has been trying to

480
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,200
allow commercial uses by right in all

481
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,240
residential areas. And that would

482
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,760
include cafes and bars as long as it was

483
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,520
written this past year, they would be

484
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,320
allowed to operate for 12 hours at any

485
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,720
given time and could serve alcohol if

486
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,760
they also serve food. So at the same

487
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:17,280
time when there's the um the legislature

488
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,559
meets next spring that could be required

489
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,480
outright and then that would just be

490
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:23,760
incorporated in our code too.

491
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:26,480
» If I may also add to that the other part

492
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,720
just for your consideration is that the

493
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:32,480
inverse is also true. state uh

494
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:34,799
legislature this past um spring adopted

495
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,360
Senate Bill 6026

496
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:42,240
which the governor signed in March which

497
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:45,120
allows for um ground basically cities

498
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,600
cannot restrict the amount of uh or

499
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:51,120
cannot require ground floor commercial

500
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,520
or mixed use in more than 40% of the

501
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:55,679
area zone. So it allows residential to

502
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,840
go into what was otherwise commercial

503
00:21:55,679 --> 00:21:59,520
areas. So, we're we're seeing the

504
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,600
traffic kind of go both directions.

505
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,919
Tonight, you're talking about commercial

506
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:06,559
going into residential zones and then

507
00:22:03,919 --> 00:22:09,200
that state law, which we have 18 months

508
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:11,360
from the signing to to put into effect,

509
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:14,080
allows for residential to go into what

510
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:16,000
was pre previously thought to be

511
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,080
commercial or mixed use areas. So, it's

512
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:21,080
kind of blending the lines in both

513
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,080
directions.

514
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:31,520
Um clarification on the fleet dispatch

515
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,960
center. I assume that means like with

516
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,200
trucks coming and going, which is what

517
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,799
we want to prevent. Like I I you could

518
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,240
also read that as like someone sitting

519
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:40,559
there at a computer with a headset like

520
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,720
directing remote activities out. Does

521
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:45,520
that need like a definition about trucks

522
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:48,000
being housed on site?

523
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,440
» Um it was more to avoid Yeah. trucks

524
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,520
being housed on site and like the

525
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,200
traditional morning meeting of everybody

526
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,799
congregating there, parking their

527
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,440
personal vehicle and then picking up

528
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:58,080
their work truck and going to their

529
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,159
site.

530
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,159
» I could I could picture a dispatcher who

531
00:23:00,159 --> 00:23:03,679
who doesn't have people coming and going

532
00:23:02,159 --> 00:23:05,440
just quietly in their office doing

533
00:23:03,679 --> 00:23:05,840
things and that that seems fine.

534
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,480
» Yeah.

535
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,960
» Yeah. If it's a home B, if it truly is

536
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,039
just the dispatcher themselves where

537
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,120
they're just, you know, taking calls and

538
00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:17,840
responding to things online, that kind

539
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:20,880
of stuff. Yes, that would be it's the

540
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,880
fleet component. So, if I'm a if I have

541
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,480
a dozen tow trucks, I don't want to have

542
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,919
them all parked in my backyard and then

543
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,360
send them out for my house kind of.

544
00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:30,919
» I think that makes sense. Yeah, I think

545
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:30,919
we're on the same page.

546
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,679
Do you see any risk of people who are

547
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,159
wanting to have more than the number of

548
00:23:41,679 --> 00:23:46,240
employees that are allowed uh having

549
00:23:44,159 --> 00:23:49,200
people move in as residents just to add

550
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:52,159
employees?

551
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:56,559
» Uh we hadn't considered that risk. Um

552
00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:58,880
but I suppose that it is there. Um yeah,

553
00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:00,640
I don't think that it's a a huge concern

554
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:04,000
right now that people would game the

555
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:06,960
system. I think um we're writing this

556
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,799
code and we want to see we specifically

557
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,480
chose this as phase one for the

558
00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:12,480
smallcale commercial because we wanted

559
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,960
to study it. So I think that we will be

560
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:18,880
studying it and we will be identifying

561
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:21,440
any problems that we that occur with the

562
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:24,400
code and we are open to modifying it in

563
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:27,679
the future. Um, but I don't think that

564
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,679
we've seen that in the past of people

565
00:24:27,679 --> 00:24:32,720
gaming the system to have more employees

566
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:34,080
under the old code. So, I'm I'm I don't

567
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,480
know. I'm doubtful that it would happen

568
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,640
in the future, but we can remain agile

569
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,480
and change things as we need to as we go

570
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,400
into this second phase of small-cale

571
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,559
commercial.

572
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,080
And

573
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:45,679
» I didn't see it listed, but may have

574
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,320
just missed it, but like things like

575
00:24:45,679 --> 00:24:50,000
marijuana related industries, are those

576
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,919
prohibited?

577
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:56,880
» Yes. Um the state regulates those um

578
00:24:53,919 --> 00:25:00,000
there there are very strict buffers that

579
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:02,640
the state requires from schools and

580
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:06,400
parks. So there are very few areas

581
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,559
within the city that even allow that. Um

582
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,200
but yeah, I don't think that that would

583
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:13,039
be an issue. We can evaluate it more to

584
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,039
make sure that there's no gaps in our

585
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:16,039
rules.

586
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:27,120
And yeah, so we retail sales are only

587
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,159
allowed with um goods produced on site

588
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,760
too. So I feel like that is limiting for

589
00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:36,600
I think that would require more a bigger

590
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,600
operation and space too. So

591
00:25:52,159 --> 00:25:57,440
further comments, anybody thinking of

592
00:25:54,159 --> 00:26:00,320
any modifications?

593
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:04,039
Okay.

594
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,039
Anybody have a motion?

595
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,960
better at it.

596
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,840
» Um,

597
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:20,159
you would say that you want to move to

598
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,919
accept staff's recommendation for

599
00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:24,799
approval to forward to the city council

600
00:26:21,919 --> 00:26:27,200
and accept the findings and facts and

601
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:28,799
recommendations as written in the staff

602
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,720
memo from today.

603
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:32,880
» Yeah, post that. I I'll move to do what

604
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,200
Mike just said to do. [laughter]

605
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,600
» A second.

606
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,080
» All in favor say I.

607
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,720
» I.

608
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,679
» I.

609
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,919
» Anyone opposed?

610
00:26:41,679 --> 00:26:45,520
» All right, motion passes.

611
00:26:43,919 --> 00:26:46,400
» Thank you. Thank you.

612
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:51,720
» Thank you.

613
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,720
» Um, so I guess we'll go to round two.

614
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:22,880
Are we ready?

615
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,159
» Yep, we're ready. Is uh Are you guys uh

616
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,600
going to have a presentation on the tree

617
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:26,480
ordinance or are they going to get a

618
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,640
tree and bring it in here?

619
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,640
» No, I [laughter]

620
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,240
I'll give I'll give some uh comments.

621
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,960
Yeah, we wouldn't want to bring a

622
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:39,120
landmark tree in here necessarily. Um

623
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:42,159
there's enough wood in this room.

624
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,600
» Yeah. Um thank you Blake Lion, director

625
00:27:42,159 --> 00:27:45,760
of planning and community development.

626
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,600
Uh we were here in front of you in

627
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,360
February to kind of introduce this topic

628
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,480
and and mention the fact that we were

629
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:53,760
going to come back and look at the

630
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:56,559
ordinance um in greater level of detail.

631
00:27:53,760 --> 00:28:02,799
As you may recall through that process,

632
00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:04,640
um we went through initially uh in 2024

633
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:07,120
and the council did an emergency

634
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,640
ordinance because as we were working our

635
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:12,080
way through the um urban forestry plan,

636
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,600
we realized there was some concerns

637
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:17,360
about losing some of these um larger,

638
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,880
more significant trees throughout our

639
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:22,880
city. And so we did that uh effort to

640
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,799
adopt the emergency ordinance. And then

641
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,679
we've been doing several iterations of

642
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:30,559
interim ordinances and we continue to

643
00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:32,880
refine. I'm thoroughly convinced in this

644
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:36,080
process that uh and you heard a little

645
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,440
bit about it in the first item. There's

646
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,039
for those of us who are in this

647
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,679
profession and trying to write code,

648
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:44,000
there's never a perfect code. You know,

649
00:28:41,679 --> 00:28:45,600
you go through you do your best to to

650
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,360
write something based on the

651
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,760
circumstances and the issues that are

652
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,679
brought up at the time. Um but there are

653
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,279
always competing influences. there are

654
00:28:51,679 --> 00:28:55,840
always competing opinions and

655
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:58,320
preferences um and directions. And so

656
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,880
one of the things that we've

657
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:04,240
um debated about with this particular

658
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,799
ordinance in partic in in specifics is

659
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,520
do we keep tweaking tweak keep refining?

660
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:12,320
It absolutely can benefit from that over

661
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,720
time. Uh but perfection can be the enemy

662
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,679
of good at times. And so we're in front

663
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:20,480
of you this evening to kind of see what

664
00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:23,279
your pleasure is. if you feel like you

665
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,760
um are comfortable with the revisions

666
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:27,200
that we'll talk about this evening. Um I

667
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,200
know you've received several public

668
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,760
comments that call for more and you're

669
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,440
going to see some of those on um

670
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,840
different sides of the issue and so

671
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:39,919
again we can continue to refine. There's

672
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:42,559
an opportunity for you to have um two

673
00:29:39,919 --> 00:29:45,039
more work sessions if you would like.

674
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:49,200
one would be next Thursday on the 25th

675
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:52,159
or we can look to uh the the 9th. Um

676
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:55,360
given the way that we have updated and

677
00:29:52,159 --> 00:29:58,240
changed the council lead times for

678
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,720
packets and for public noticing uh we

679
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,840
are scheduled to go to city council on

680
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:06,559
July 13th for a public hearing uh in

681
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,240
this ordinance with any recommendations

682
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:10,640
if you were to get to the point for

683
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,559
making a recommendation to the council.

684
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,159
If that cannot happen, if you're not

685
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:16,159
comfortable with that, if we need to go

686
00:30:14,159 --> 00:30:18,399
through that, we have the option of

687
00:30:16,159 --> 00:30:21,200
pulling that item uh and pushing back.

688
00:30:18,399 --> 00:30:24,159
But just to give you some context, the

689
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,720
interim ordinance as it sits now runs

690
00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:28,720
through September. If we feel like we

691
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,640
want more time and we want to do all of

692
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,399
that kind of stuff, that's fine. We can

693
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,399
go back to city council and ask to

694
00:30:32,399 --> 00:30:37,039
extend it yet again. We were just trying

695
00:30:34,399 --> 00:30:39,919
to do our part to get to a point where

696
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:42,159
we just have a an ordinance in place and

697
00:30:39,919 --> 00:30:44,399
give some degree of specificity and not

698
00:30:42,159 --> 00:30:46,399
continue to live by by interim

699
00:30:44,399 --> 00:30:48,720
ordinance. But I don't want you any of

700
00:30:46,399 --> 00:30:51,600
you to feel like we're painting you into

701
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,600
a corner with any of this. So if you if

702
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,679
you want andor need the time, we're

703
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,640
certainly able to take it. we just were

704
00:30:55,679 --> 00:31:01,200
trying to kind of stack things up and

705
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,120
abide by the time frames by which we

706
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,440
have to send out notices and get it on

707
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:10,480
council agendas and so on and so forth.

708
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:13,440
So, um, with that said, um, I want to

709
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:16,480
hone in a little bit on the fact that

710
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:19,120
again the intent of this ordinance as

711
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,279
it's currently drafted, and I'm going to

712
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,080
oversimplify it, but it really is to try

713
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:26,960
to find kind of two components to this.

714
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,919
one is to preserve the most significant

715
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,159
trees that are in our community. Um, and

716
00:31:29,919 --> 00:31:35,440
so the ordinance is really set up with

717
00:31:32,159 --> 00:31:40,320
that framework in mind, but we also know

718
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:42,720
that that priority can come at the um

719
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,760
risk of making it more challenging, more

720
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:48,640
difficult, more costly, more timely uh

721
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,640
time, you know, for the development

722
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,240
needs that we know we have in this

723
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:56,320
community as well. So trying to find

724
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:58,000
that balance uh is really um you know

725
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:02,000
kind of the the thing that we're trying

726
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:04,640
to thread in this context. Um there are

727
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,720
several pieces of existing code and I

728
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,960
won't go through all the details of

729
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:12,000
those but the gentleman sitting to my

730
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,320
left uh deals with this on a day-to-day

731
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,360
basis and can and can go through this at

732
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:20,320
nauseium. But you will see uh in the

733
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,000
staff report there's conversations about

734
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,679
uh chapter 13 of the Bellingham

735
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,640
Municipal Code that deals with street

736
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:29,679
trees. Chapter 16 deals with critical

737
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,519
areas and land clearing and grading. Um

738
00:32:29,679 --> 00:32:34,240
chapter 20 deals with development

739
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:36,320
regulations. Uh chapter 22 deals with

740
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,000
shoreline regulations. So all of those

741
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:41,679
have components that are dealing with

742
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:45,200
trees. This in particular is focusing in

743
00:32:41,679 --> 00:32:49,600
on landmark trees. By definition, those

744
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:51,279
are trees that are greater than 36 in at

745
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,080
breast height. So approximately 4 and

746
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:56,080
1/2 ft above grade. Now we've talked

747
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,919
through various different iterations. I

748
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,880
was back in front of you in February and

749
00:32:57,919 --> 00:33:03,440
we talked about whether 36 was the right

750
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:07,279
uh number to be looking at as we started

751
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:09,600
to look into that further. And there are

752
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:11,039
a variety of different opinions. Some

753
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,600
think it should be smaller, some think

754
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:16,240
it should be larger. Uh, you know, and

755
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,640
so part of our kind of ultimate

756
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,600
consideration was just better to stay

757
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,519
with what we have, what at least our

758
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,240
development community and community at

759
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:28,960
large is uh comfortable and used to

760
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,360
dealing with and not keep moving the,

761
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,279
you know, the goalposts and trying to um

762
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,399
adjust things. If you feel differently,

763
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:36,000
if you feel like there should be

764
00:33:34,399 --> 00:33:37,679
something, that's certainly your

765
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,679
prerogative to provide that input and

766
00:33:37,679 --> 00:33:42,000
we'll certainly work towards towards

767
00:33:39,679 --> 00:33:43,760
doing that. This new ordinance that you

768
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,760
saw in the packet, again, there's two

769
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,399
versions of predominantly the same

770
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,679
thing. One is the red line strikethrough

771
00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:51,360
version that shows you some of the

772
00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:53,519
changes and edits. A number of those

773
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,360
that you'll see in there, puts it into

774
00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:58,880
kind of more ordinance format where it

775
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,799
talks about chapter 1600

776
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,640
uh of the Bellingham Municipal Code. So,

777
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:04,720
it takes the section numbers out and

778
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,960
does a lot of changes in that regard.

779
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:10,560
And then the latter portion of it that's

780
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,919
um closer to later in your packet is the

781
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,359
clean version. So, if you're just

782
00:34:11,919 --> 00:34:15,760
looking to read it kind of without all

783
00:34:13,359 --> 00:34:17,520
the interruptions, that's certainly um

784
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,960
there. You'll see some additional

785
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,480
discussion. Oh, and I should also

786
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,240
mention, and I won't try to uh reiterate

787
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,560
their comments entirely, but we did have

788
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:29,200
one uh public comment that came through

789
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:32,639
that also had some suggested edits that

790
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:34,639
were from members of the community. Um,

791
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:36,879
so there's there's that kind of third

792
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:39,359
option out there, I guess, or a second

793
00:34:36,879 --> 00:34:42,800
option. Um,

794
00:34:39,359 --> 00:34:44,560
we did add Lombardi Popppler. Uh in

795
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,599
discussion with our arborists, in

796
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,440
discussion with that, we talked about um

797
00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:52,480
black cottonwoods were were trees that

798
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,399
we said, you know, because of their uh

799
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,520
growth patterns and characteristics that

800
00:34:54,399 --> 00:34:58,640
we didn't feel like those were

801
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:01,520
necessarily appropriate to maintain as

802
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,119
landmark trees. Um and Bombardi popppler

803
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,960
is another one that we felt like should

804
00:35:03,119 --> 00:35:06,800
be added to that for the the reasons

805
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,079
that are listed in your staff report.

806
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,079
So, that's certainly one of the

807
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:14,160
considerations that we'd like to think

808
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:16,480
about moving forward. Um, we also added

809
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,359
some language in there that allows

810
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:23,359
landmark trees uh as a criteria for

811
00:35:19,359 --> 00:35:24,800
removal to um if they are creating a

812
00:35:23,359 --> 00:35:26,640
hazard, if they are resulting in a

813
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,960
hazard. The example that I used with you

814
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,200
previously was we've had actually more

815
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,760
than one incident um but one comes to

816
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,680
mind where a property owner had a

817
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:39,280
landmark tree immediately adjacent to

818
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:41,359
their structure and um it was lifting

819
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,800
and shifting the framing of the home to

820
00:35:41,359 --> 00:35:46,000
the point where they couldn't close the

821
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,599
windows any longer. And so um we've had

822
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,160
others that are you know attacking

823
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:51,839
infrastructure. Um there's a few that

824
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,880
have come up that that come to mind, but

825
00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:56,480
it when it's damaging real property, um

826
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,040
the thought was okay, in order to

827
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:02,160
protect that investment, uh the tree has

828
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:05,040
an opportunity to be removed and look at

829
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:08,000
um alternative replacement opportunities

830
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,839
uh when that situation presents itself.

831
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,599
We're also going through, and I know

832
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:13,280
this is not entirely your purview, but

833
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:18,240
it is something that's very present on

834
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:21,200
our minds, is the um resource staffing

835
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:23,040
and and um budget challenges that we're

836
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,359
dealing with. And so, as we begin to

837
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,440
think through what our current

838
00:36:25,359 --> 00:36:29,599
circumstances are and how do we manage

839
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,480
and maintain and functionally implement

840
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:34,720
this kind of stuff, um we made some

841
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,119
modifications to the landmark tree

842
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:39,680
committee structure. uh instead of

843
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:42,800
having three staff go out to every

844
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:45,119
single request that comes in uh when we

845
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:48,000
go through and we receive the

846
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:50,079
professional uh arborist submitt to this

847
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,000
certified arborist submitt then we'll

848
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:54,560
have staff review that if we're

849
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,720
generally in agreement with the

850
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,760
direction that's been recommended in

851
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:02,960
there we have one member of the um staff

852
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,280
go out and field verify and make sure

853
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,200
that we again that that what's been

854
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,880
written in the report is consistent with

855
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,240
what we see in the field. And if that

856
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,720
all lines up, then we have that single

857
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:16,640
uh staff member attributed to that. If

858
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,839
there are differences of opinion, if

859
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,720
there is something that's a little more

860
00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:22,960
technical, there's still some ability to

861
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,800
consult with other staff members and to

862
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,040
try to address those things in a

863
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:31,280
committee format. But that's really the

864
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:32,640
intent was to be a little bit more um

865
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,000
you know just responsible with the

866
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,280
amount of resources that we're

867
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,119
committing. And as this whole process

868
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,520
played out, we found that we were

869
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:43,040
spending an inordinate amount of time

870
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,520
staff time trying to work through that.

871
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:48,320
That has mellowed out substantially over

872
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,079
the last uh several months in terms of

873
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,880
people just understanding the ordinance

874
00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:54,880
better uh and continue to figure out how

875
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,560
to work and navigate through that. So

876
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:00,800
that also contributed to how much did we

877
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,640
want to shift and change this. If if you

878
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,800
always feel like rules and codes are

879
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,800
changing, that could be uh adding a

880
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:10,240
level of frustration and and concern

881
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:13,440
there as well. Um

882
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:16,000
I won't go through all of the uh public

883
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,839
comments. Um I know the folks that

884
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,880
submitted them are here today and I'll

885
00:38:17,839 --> 00:38:23,599
let them speak for themselves. Um, I do

886
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:27,440
think that there is an opportunity and

887
00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:29,280
I'm happy to share with you. Um, you saw

888
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,880
in one of the public comments and I was

889
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,440
here in February and told you a little

890
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,440
bit more about the reasonleness memo and

891
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:39,119
that's a distinction

892
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:41,599
um, that we at the staff level use. It

893
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:43,280
wasn't intended to be and I'm sorry if I

894
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:44,960
misspoke previously, but it wasn't

895
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,320
intended to be incorporated into the

896
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,599
ordinance. That's some of the

897
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:52,400
flexibility that we try to maintain at

898
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:54,880
that SLA level to provide that uh degree

899
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:58,320
of interpretation. But as written right

900
00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:02,000
now, the ordinance says that um you are

901
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:04,400
allowed to remove a landmark tree uh in

902
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,800
order to have a reasonable use of the

903
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,520
property if you can demonstrate that

904
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:12,400
you've looked at reasonable alternatives

905
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:14,640
uh to that development. And so the

906
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,200
question has come up as to what is that?

907
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:20,000
How do you define that term reasonable?

908
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:23,440
And so the guidance memo that we worked

909
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,320
on drafting was really to provide that

910
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,760
context and provide a little bit, but um

911
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:32,480
to try to codify that in our opinion was

912
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,560
narrowing the focus so much and would

913
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,040
require an ordinance change or you know

914
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:40,320
code change if we wanted to deviate from

915
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:42,800
that. So having it in a uh memo format

916
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:46,320
gives us the ability to make sure that

917
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,960
we can adjust if we need to. Um there

918
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:51,599
are other a couple other things that I

919
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,280
spoke to you all about in February that

920
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:55,440
um

921
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:58,000
certainly are of interest to us and

922
00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:00,480
certainly are things that we are

923
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,720
continuing to evaluate and think that

924
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,960
might come through especially now we've

925
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:09,200
gotten direction since I was in front of

926
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:11,839
you last uh from the mayor to reinitiate

927
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:14,160
the urban forestry plan. So, we're going

928
00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:17,359
to be evaluating the tree bank and the

929
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:19,440
inloo uh fee options as you know kind of

930
00:40:17,359 --> 00:40:20,880
part of that effort. Um I want to

931
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,960
provide a little bit of a distinction at

932
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,520
least in our mind in terms of what those

933
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:29,200
terms mean. So, when we talk about a

934
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,040
tree bank, um, and we'll use it in

935
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,400
context with like wetland mitigation

936
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,480
banks, which we have a little bit more

937
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,599
experience, but it's a it's a basically

938
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:39,760
where the city goes out and establishes

939
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:43,440
um a wetland

940
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:47,359
and then has credits to be able to sell

941
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:49,599
to developers or other agencies uh for

942
00:40:47,359 --> 00:40:52,640
the to mitigate the impacts of that. And

943
00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:56,880
so in this example, when we talk about a

944
00:40:52,640 --> 00:41:00,160
tree bank, if somebody's removing a um a

945
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:03,760
tree off of their property, do we have a

946
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:06,400
another area where we can um call out or

947
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,640
a credit for that and do, you know, some

948
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,880
ability to that? There's also an ability

949
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,359
to look at whether or not we want to

950
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,599
have offsite receiving parcels, and that

951
00:41:13,359 --> 00:41:18,480
may be uh a little different than a

952
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:21,359
treebank dynamic. The third thing that

953
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,599
was brought up in that was the inloo fee

954
00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:25,599
payment. And so again, something that we

955
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:28,800
need to go through, make sure our

956
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:30,319
finance department is um equipped and

957
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,720
ready to do that from a payment

958
00:41:30,319 --> 00:41:35,920
perspective and and begin to identify

959
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:37,760
what that dollar amount is and how that

960
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,920
tree bank is structured. And so it takes

961
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,920
a a bigger effort to do that. and we

962
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,480
weren't prepared to to bring that

963
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,560
forward to you um at this time, but we

964
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,680
are working through through those

965
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,920
efforts. So, um I will conclude my

966
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,599
comments here. Again, I have some uh if

967
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,960
you want to see the reasonleness memo,

968
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:56,960
we can certainly walk you through some

969
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,400
of that, but it might be prudent to just

970
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,839
hear some of the public comment first

971
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,400
and then be able to respond to any

972
00:41:59,839 --> 00:42:05,200
questions that you might have. So, I'll

973
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,839
stop there.

974
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,920
» Thanks, Blake. Uh, I guess it's the time

975
00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:11,440
for public comment related to this

976
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,079
topic. So, if you have anything to

977
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:18,040
share, come on down and share with the

978
00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:18,040
group. Three minutes, please.

979
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,920
Can turn your mic on.

980
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:45,440
Okay, great. Thank you. Um, thank you

981
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,920
planning commission and thank you staff

982
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,760
for the opportunity to comment on the

983
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,160
landmark tree ordinance that you're

984
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,880
reviewing tonight and for the work that

985
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:57,119
you and staff have invested in it. Um, I

986
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,960
know that what is before us right now is

987
00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:00,960
a result of a lot of hard work and

988
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,880
thinking and planning and I want to

989
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,240
acknowledge all of that effort. Um, in

990
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,280
addition to the comments that I'd like

991
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:09,280
to relay, um, as executive director of

992
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,280
Watka Million Trees Project, I'm here

993
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,359
tonight to advocate for an ordinance

994
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:16,000
that provides effective protection for

995
00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:18,720
Bellingham's most significant trees

996
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:22,480
without creating opaque requirements

997
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:24,480
that require that uh, staff consultation

998
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,040
uh, at every turn and unnecessarily

999
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:29,760
hamper a project that we desperately

1000
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,359
need, such as affordable housing. At the

1001
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,839
February planning commission meeting,

1002
00:43:31,359 --> 00:43:35,920
staff identified several aspects of the

1003
00:43:33,839 --> 00:43:38,640
interim ordinance ordinance that needed

1004
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,720
to be improved before your next review.

1005
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:43,599
These are enumerated in my submitted

1006
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:45,839
comments uh but include a clearer

1007
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:48,800
definition of reasonable which rec which

1008
00:43:45,839 --> 00:43:51,520
appears in the ordinance five times an

1009
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,200
improved application process. How the

1010
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,839
landmark tree ordinance relates to

1011
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,760
existing clearing and grading ordinances

1012
00:43:55,839 --> 00:43:59,760
and how to enforce the ordinance because

1013
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:03,359
the city's enforcement resources are

1014
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:05,680
stretched so thin. This draft ordinance

1015
00:44:03,359 --> 00:44:07,599
has not been improved since you saw it,

1016
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,520
and it also fails to comply with the

1017
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:13,920
city council's clear direction to

1018
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:15,680
Director Lion at its February 24th, 2025

1019
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,720
meeting to improve the city's

1020
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,560
transparency in this process.

1021
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:23,200
In the last few years, we have seen

1022
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:25,119
poorly designed projects move forward to

1023
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,119
the terrible detriment of our natural

1024
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:29,920
areas because the rules that should have

1025
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:32,400
stopped them were not strong enough.

1026
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,319
That does not need to happen tonight.

1027
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,599
There is no time limit imposed by the

1028
00:44:34,319 --> 00:44:39,040
type six process. I respectfully request

1029
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,880
you return this ordinance to the

1030
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,880
planning and community development

1031
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,960
department to do what they said they

1032
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,800
would do and create an ordinance that

1033
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:50,640
allows Bellingham to live up to its

1034
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,560
values and serve its residents needs. I

1035
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,520
and many other members of the community

1036
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,440
would be very glad to help. Uh thank you

1037
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,200
again for your time, your service, and

1038
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,839
for your thoughtful consideration of

1039
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,839
these community goals.

1040
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,480
Good evening, commission members. Um my

1041
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,000
name is Perry Escridge. I represent the

1042
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,000
Walom County Realtors and the Building

1043
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,760
Industry Association of Walcomm County.

1044
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,079
I submitted a written comment yesterday

1045
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,160
regarding the fee and loo. I just want

1046
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:25,200
to emphasize that that is probably the

1047
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,880
number one priority of the BIAWC with

1048
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,480
respect to this ordinance and

1049
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,599
unfortunately as you as you heard

1050
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:34,640
Director Lion say it hasn't made it in

1051
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:36,880
and that is imperative

1052
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,400
for our our builders and it's their like

1053
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,800
I said it's their number one priority

1054
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,839
here. The other comments I have are

1055
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:46,240
included in a memo that I

1056
00:45:43,839 --> 00:45:49,680
I hate to say this. I'm embarrassed that

1057
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:51,680
I missed this, but um it's nonetheless I

1058
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,760
think it needs to be brought up. Both in

1059
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,760
the letter yesterday and in my written

1060
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,880
memo that I submitted just before this

1061
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:01,119
meeting, I talk about the um removal of

1062
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,280
the committee aspect of the Bellingham

1063
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:04,640
Landmark Tree Committee. One of the

1064
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,200
reasons that we think that committee

1065
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:10,480
aspect is so important is because one of

1066
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:12,480
the concerns is arbitrary um random

1067
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,599
decisions by a certain individual who's

1068
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:17,520
yet to be identified. um making a

1069
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:20,000
decision on somebody's mitigation plan

1070
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,000
for a development. And the idea was that

1071
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,720
having a committee do that, you've got

1072
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:27,200
the benefit of collegial review, you've

1073
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:29,680
got um you know some accountability in

1074
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,000
there and probably a better chance of

1075
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:34,880
consistent decisions that can be you

1076
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,839
know measured. The bigger issue though

1077
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:42,160
that I want to draw your attention to

1078
00:46:37,839 --> 00:46:44,319
is what happens with a mitigation plan

1079
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:47,119
when you go through and this is why I'm

1080
00:46:44,319 --> 00:46:48,720
embarrassed that I missed this you know

1081
00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:52,480
because it's only been what two years

1082
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:54,880
right if you look at 050

1083
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,520
and [sighs and gasps]

1084
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,280
um z yeah 050

1085
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,440
you see the word mitigation showing up

1086
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,200
time and time again but then when you

1087
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,000
actually go to consideration of the

1088
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,000
review process of a mitigation plan.

1089
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,920
First of all, only a single member of

1090
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,599
the committee reviews that mitigation

1091
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,920
plan.

1092
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:17,599
Then when you go over to the next

1093
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:20,400
another section in instances of removal

1094
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:22,079
of a landmark tree the language is the

1095
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:25,839
director

1096
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:28,720
has to adopt the conditions of the

1097
00:47:25,839 --> 00:47:30,880
mitigation plan and it doesn't show in

1098
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:33,119
there or reveal that the director has

1099
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,040
any discretion to make any changes to

1100
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:37,440
that plan. If the member of the

1101
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:40,240
commission or the committee adopts it,

1102
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:42,480
the director shall include those as the

1103
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:44,000
conditions.

1104
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:47,200
The other reason this is really

1105
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:51,040
significant is we use the phrase

1106
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:53,200
removal, damage or harm interchangeably

1107
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,599
with removal.

1108
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:58,960
And so if you're just damaging or

1109
00:47:55,599 --> 00:48:01,040
harming a landmark tree, is that subject

1110
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,520
to the same requirements as removal or

1111
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:07,280
isn't it? And I think we really need

1112
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:08,960
some clarity on what is intended there

1113
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,920
because I'll tell you after 30 years of

1114
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:14,000
administrative law practice, all I have

1115
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,440
to do is walk into a judge and say

1116
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:19,119
different language, different result.

1117
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:22,720
And that's just that's just

1118
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:25,440
administrative law 101. So if we're not

1119
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:26,800
consistent in the language, then we're

1120
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,880
not going to be consistent in the

1121
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:32,400
results. So mark this day. I agree with

1122
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,000
the million trees project that this

1123
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,520
needs to go back for a little bit more

1124
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,680
work [laughter]

1125
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,559
and uh yeah, I'm glad I could finally

1126
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,480
agree on this this big element of it.

1127
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:45,359
Okay, thanks so much.

1128
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,839
» Thank you.

1129
00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:50,839
» Any more public comment? Anyone on the

1130
00:48:47,839 --> 00:48:50,839
web?

1131
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:57,079
Okay, it's a smaller group than I

1132
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:57,079
expected.

1133
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,240
Who wants to kick it off this time?

1134
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:05,240
Minnie.

1135
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:14,319
» Okay. Um

1136
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,440
yeah, reading through everything uh the

1137
00:49:14,319 --> 00:49:21,280
ordinance and the letters uh from the

1138
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:23,920
public, I would tend to agree that uh

1139
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,599
although significant work has been done,

1140
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,400
I mean we're we're getting close, but

1141
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:30,160
there's uh there's things to put in. So

1142
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,240
I guess I'll just start with a question

1143
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:35,520
and that is about the fee and llu and

1144
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:36,960
you you mentioned it. Um, and before you

1145
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,680
mentioned it, my my question was going

1146
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,920
to be, has staff talked about it and why

1147
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:45,200
hasn't it made it in there? Uh, if

1148
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:47,280
there's a reason for that.

1149
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:51,839
» Yeah, I think um probably the best

1150
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:54,319
answer is um more sequencing and timing

1151
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:56,079
of working with our finance department

1152
00:49:54,319 --> 00:49:59,040
and trying to get make sure we get the

1153
00:49:56,079 --> 00:50:00,640
pay structure identified. And so if if

1154
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,880
we feel that's imperative and as you

1155
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:05,440
heard in public comment tonight there's

1156
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,280
a strong feeling that that is needed

1157
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:11,680
that would require additional time. So

1158
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:13,839
if as I spoke earlier if if the uh

1159
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,440
commission is in agreement with that and

1160
00:50:13,839 --> 00:50:18,559
that's something that we want to you

1161
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:20,559
know take into consideration then the

1162
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:22,400
ramifications of that decision would be

1163
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:24,880
simply to go back to the council and say

1164
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,440
okay we're not prepared for a public

1165
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:31,200
hearing on this for a final ordinance.

1166
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:33,359
we need to extend it yet again. Uh allow

1167
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,920
us the time to build that in and do the

1168
00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:38,160
work that's necessary to coordinate that

1169
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,839
with our finance. So again, perfectly

1170
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,000
viable option. Just wanted to make sure

1171
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:46,880
you're clear on what that would entail.

1172
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:50,240
» Right. And the other um kind of

1173
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:53,920
uh concern from from multiple and myself

1174
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:57,920
is the language of the director and um

1175
00:50:53,920 --> 00:51:00,319
whether he has ultimate authority. Um,

1176
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,839
so if we go back and we work on it, is

1177
00:51:00,319 --> 00:51:05,760
this something where we could improve

1178
00:51:01,839 --> 00:51:08,079
this language as well? And I'm also uh

1179
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:13,319
in line with the BIAWC about the

1180
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:13,319
language of removal, harm, and damage.

1181
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:19,680
» Well, I think um let's let's take both

1182
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:23,119
of those independent. So um as far as

1183
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:25,200
the director's authority, it

1184
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:29,200
the and I we can go back in and look at

1185
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:31,280
it. If the goal is to allow the um staff

1186
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,200
members to make a recommendation to the

1187
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,640
director, I think that's the intent of

1188
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,559
the ordinance. If we need to clean

1189
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:39,599
something up, we'll do that. But it's to

1190
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:41,200
have a decision making authority.

1191
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:43,520
Ultimately,

1192
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,839
um that lies with the director as the

1193
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,400
responsible entity and those decisions

1194
00:51:45,839 --> 00:51:50,880
are then appealable to if there is a

1195
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,400
discretionary appeal uh process in there

1196
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,559
would be appealable to the hearing

1197
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,720
examiner. So that's kind of the order of

1198
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:58,240
hierarchy. If there's something that we

1199
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:00,400
need to adjust or tweak to make sure

1200
00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:02,160
that's clear, that we're not bound by

1201
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,319
what the recommendation of the committee

1202
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,400
is, but that there is some consideration

1203
00:52:04,319 --> 00:52:09,200
and discretion there, then that's

1204
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,720
ultimately uh the way it's intended to

1205
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,240
be structured. I know that there was

1206
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,400
other public comment that you received

1207
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:16,400
in all this that was concerned about the

1208
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,240
director having too much authority. So

1209
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:22,319
we've got to figure out where we want

1210
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:23,920
that line to be uh associated with that.

1211
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:25,520
The second question if you'll remind me

1212
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:28,640
again

1213
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,280
» Uh the language about remove damage or

1214
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,520
harm.

1215
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:34,160
» Yeah. And so generally the way and I

1216
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,079
agree with Mr. Esridge that uh I'm not

1217
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:39,760
an attorney. he can speak better than I

1218
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:43,119
can to that effect. But um oftent times

1219
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:46,880
when we talk about um

1220
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:49,680
damage or harm or removal

1221
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:53,119
um it's when those when that damage or

1222
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:55,920
harm effectively is degradating that

1223
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:57,920
tree so much that it is you know a

1224
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:01,839
removal. So, for example, and this just

1225
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:04,319
came up uh within a month or so, where

1226
00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:06,880
we had a construction site, they removed

1227
00:53:04,319 --> 00:53:08,800
two trees. We had others that were being

1228
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:12,400
protected and preserved. In the process

1229
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:14,160
of those two tree removals, they they

1230
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,160
basically dropped one tree and it

1231
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,640
delimmed half of the tree. And so, it's

1232
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,960
completely unbalanced. It's damaged.

1233
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:23,440
It's harmed so much that effectively

1234
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:26,160
that results in the removal. it's a

1235
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,160
you're creating a situation where that

1236
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,079
tree now needs, you know, effectively

1237
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:33,119
needs to be removed or doesn't have the

1238
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:34,720
same value it once had. Or if somebody's

1239
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:37,359
doing something like construction

1240
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:39,119
staging and stocking up all their uh

1241
00:53:37,359 --> 00:53:41,359
construction materials and effectively

1242
00:53:39,119 --> 00:53:44,160
damaging or harming that to the point

1243
00:53:41,359 --> 00:53:46,240
where that tree cannot live a fruitful

1244
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,960
life if as if it were entirely

1245
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:51,680
protected, then you've done irreparable

1246
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:54,800
damage or harm. Uh and so that's

1247
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,640
generally is is you know it we don't

1248
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,480
want to have the ability to we don't

1249
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:01,040
want to limit ourselves to just saying

1250
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,559
oh you you removed it and they can say

1251
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,559
no we it's still there but you've

1252
00:54:02,559 --> 00:54:06,880
damaged it to the point where it can't

1253
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:09,040
survive and it can't return to a healthy

1254
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,800
lifestyle. So, we we feel like now if we

1255
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:13,200
need to refine that and kind of work

1256
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:15,920
through that, um you know, our attorneys

1257
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,760
did review it. Do feel like that's uh

1258
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,839
defensible language, but if there's some

1259
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,280
direction that you'd like to to provide

1260
00:54:19,839 --> 00:54:24,319
or if we need to take a closer look at

1261
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:28,880
that, we're happy to do that as well.

1262
00:54:24,319 --> 00:54:33,040
» On the uh ordinance, we talk about um

1263
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:35,920
offsite areas for mitigation. Um it's

1264
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,440
not really in the ordinance that I saw.

1265
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,680
If you take if you're allowed to take a

1266
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:42,400
tree and you have to mitigate and plant

1267
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:45,200
the five additional trees, is it on-site

1268
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,720
or are we working to provide off-site

1269
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,319
areas? Well, when we're talking about

1270
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:51,520
the tree bank, that's one option that

1271
00:54:48,319 --> 00:54:53,680
we're considering is is how do you

1272
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:56,160
address that? So, you have to have a

1273
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:58,160
receiving parcel, you know, so another

1274
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,319
piece of private property that's able to

1275
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:03,520
do that. We've got to then think through

1276
00:55:00,319 --> 00:55:04,960
how do we track that for mitigation

1277
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,359
monitoring and other things like that

1278
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:09,839
because it's no longer on the site. It's

1279
00:55:07,359 --> 00:55:11,440
uh we're not set up currently. It's

1280
00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:13,040
something we'd have to expand if we're

1281
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,440
going to talk about taking some of those

1282
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,760
in public rights of way because then the

1283
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,599
liability shifts from a private property

1284
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,920
into maintaining it on public property.

1285
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:23,280
So there's a dynamic that goes along

1286
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,200
there.

1287
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:29,680
um we have a lot of properties that

1288
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:32,240
we're acquiring through the um watershed

1289
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,079
acquisition that then bring now

1290
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:35,760
technically most of those are out you

1291
00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:37,920
know around Lake Watkin wershed but

1292
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,599
they're outside of city proper so are

1293
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,559
there ways to kind of think through and

1294
00:55:39,599 --> 00:55:46,720
track you know goals part of what we're

1295
00:55:42,559 --> 00:55:49,280
trying to understand is um do we have

1296
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:52,240
particular goals as a city in terms of

1297
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:56,000
what those target uh retention or

1298
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:57,280
replacement are right now. Um, and Kirk

1299
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:00,400
may have to correct me if I get this

1300
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:02,240
incorrect, but on a on a significant

1301
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,559
tree, which is a tree that's 6 in or

1302
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:06,480
greater, it's a one for one replacement.

1303
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:09,359
Generally speaking, when you talk about

1304
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:11,119
landmark trees, it's a 3:1 replacement.

1305
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:12,400
Now, there are opportunities to think

1306
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:15,119
through and look at and say, "Okay,

1307
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:18,000
well, if I'm taking down a significant

1308
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:20,480
number of trees, significant trees and

1309
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,760
some landmark trees that the replacement

1310
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,680
value is so great that you can't

1311
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,440
accommodate the development and the

1312
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,599
replacement value." And so, that's the

1313
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,480
part that we're trying to address. So,

1314
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:34,720
can we do other things like upsizing

1315
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,599
some of the replacement trees or looking

1316
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:40,319
for different ways to get net ecological

1317
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:42,960
benefit so we're not deteriorating but

1318
00:56:40,319 --> 00:56:45,520
we can look through opportunities to to

1319
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:48,559
do a range of different things is it uh

1320
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:50,640
and where how do you create value some

1321
00:56:48,559 --> 00:56:56,480
of that maybe and this is part goes into

1322
00:56:50,640 --> 00:57:00,160
the um inlue discussion is what are our

1323
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:02,559
values as a community Do we want to say

1324
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,640
okay for example if you're at a 3:1

1325
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:08,000
replacement do you want to set up a

1326
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:09,839
ratio that says okay at least a third of

1327
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,160
the replacement trees need to be

1328
00:57:09,839 --> 00:57:14,960
provided on that property where they can

1329
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:17,119
be accommodated maybe a third can be

1330
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:19,920
offsite at a receiving parcel somewhere

1331
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:22,880
and you can maximize your inlue payment

1332
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,720
of a third or some I doesn't have to be

1333
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:27,680
those numbers I'm just kind of giving

1334
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:31,119
you some context so that somebody can't

1335
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:33,520
just offer a check and and and raise an

1336
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:35,920
entire property that may not align with

1337
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,680
our direction. So part of why we were

1338
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,359
trying to work through the urban

1339
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:41,119
forestry is because that's where a lot

1340
00:57:39,359 --> 00:57:44,799
of the policy direction and a lot of

1341
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:46,880
that dynamic is going to be um you know

1342
00:57:44,799 --> 00:57:48,640
brought to the forefront. But again we

1343
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,640
can we can work through some of those

1344
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,640
details.

1345
00:57:51,839 --> 00:57:55,359
» Yeah. I just want to add a maybe a

1346
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,520
little insider insight into how we

1347
00:57:55,359 --> 00:57:59,040
actually do this and the the discussion

1348
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:01,680
and the comments that we've had about a

1349
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,760
member or members. So, currently when we

1350
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:06,799
get a a request in, whether it's with a

1351
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:09,040
development proposal or um whether it's

1352
00:58:06,799 --> 00:58:11,119
just a standalone tree on a on a piece

1353
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:13,760
of property, um there's an email that

1354
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:15,760
goes out to the the committee, the

1355
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,280
designated committee, and that includes

1356
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,960
an arborist from the public works

1357
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,960
department, an arborist from the parks

1358
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:24,319
department, someone from the

1359
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:25,760
environmental planner from the

1360
00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:27,680
uh planning and community development

1361
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,240
department, and then the three directors

1362
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:32,160
of those departments. And what we were

1363
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:35,200
having what we were seeing is we'd have

1364
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:37,200
two arborists go out and review and an

1365
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:40,000
environmental planner. And having two

1366
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:42,319
arborists go out we didn't feel was an

1367
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,720
efficient use of staff time. And so the

1368
00:58:42,319 --> 00:58:47,359
thought process is you have one arborist

1369
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:50,400
go out evaluate it bring that report

1370
00:58:47,359 --> 00:58:52,319
back to the three other the the two

1371
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,559
other the two others go back in and

1372
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:56,559
review that report and if they agree

1373
00:58:54,559 --> 00:58:58,799
then they sign off on it. If they do not

1374
00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:00,960
agree, that's when additional discussion

1375
00:58:58,799 --> 00:59:03,200
would happen and occur and occur. So,

1376
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,599
it's not one individual making a

1377
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:07,280
decision. It's one individual that's

1378
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:09,760
going out and actually doing a site

1379
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,680
inspection and evaluating the situation,

1380
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:13,040
coming back in with that recommendation

1381
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,920
for the rest of the committee to

1382
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:19,520
actually go over and review. So, maybe

1383
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:22,680
that helps clarify um actually how we we

1384
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,680
do it.

1385
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:36,559
In terms of the critical root zone,

1386
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:38,319
that's a pretty large dimension for a

1387
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:42,079
landmark tree just based on the size of

1388
00:59:38,319 --> 00:59:44,960
the trunk. Um, that would there would be

1389
00:59:42,079 --> 00:59:47,440
situations, I'm sure, where the tree

1390
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:49,440
happens on a property that is not owned

1391
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:52,960
by the developer. It's on an adjacent

1392
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:54,880
property. And h how would that fly? I I

1393
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,799
guess it would probably be applicable

1394
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,480
for trees that aren't landmark trees as

1395
00:59:56,799 --> 01:00:01,359
well, and there's probably precedent for

1396
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:03,920
that, but I'm not very sure or clear on

1397
01:00:01,359 --> 01:00:06,400
what the current laws are on that type

1398
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:08,319
of development and how this landmark

1399
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:11,680
tree ordinance might affect people who

1400
01:00:08,319 --> 01:00:15,680
don't own the land with the tree.

1401
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:17,680
» So, you bring up a very challenging uh

1402
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,920
portion of the topic. So, let me see if

1403
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:22,079
I can walk through and Curt will jump in

1404
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:24,240
too as well. Let's for sake of

1405
01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:26,640
conversation, we're going to say that he

1406
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:31,680
and I are neighbors. I have a landmark

1407
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:33,520
tree on my property. The dimension is

1408
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:36,240
one inch. For every inch of the tree,

1409
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:39,119
it's one foot. So, if I have a 40inch

1410
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:42,319
tree, that's 40 feet of critical root

1411
01:00:39,119 --> 01:00:45,920
zone. If that 40t extends onto his

1412
01:00:42,319 --> 01:00:48,000
property and now impedes his ability to

1413
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:50,880
exercise development capacity on his

1414
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:54,880
property, the way it's set up right now

1415
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:58,400
is that he has the ability to

1416
01:00:54,880 --> 01:01:00,480
prune, limb, you know, root prune,

1417
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:03,920
branch prune, do all the things that you

1418
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:06,400
know that up to his property line. But

1419
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:08,559
if he's causing detrimental impacts to

1420
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:12,480
that tree, that's where it's

1421
01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:16,799
problematic. So there is a there is a

1422
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:20,079
scenario whereby my tree impacts his

1423
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:22,480
ability to to build on his property uh

1424
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:25,200
or to do certain things on his property.

1425
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:26,640
So that absolutely is a component of

1426
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:29,760
what we're dealing with and what we're

1427
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:34,400
talking about. But as long as as long as

1428
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:36,799
the um pruning or um you know tree

1429
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,720
maintenance that he's doing does not

1430
01:01:36,799 --> 01:01:41,520
impact the overall health and quality of

1431
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:44,160
the tree, then he has every right to you

1432
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,839
know to to manage it from from his side

1433
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:48,079
of the property line, if you will.

1434
01:01:45,839 --> 01:01:50,720
» Is that rule applicable for any tree or

1435
01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:52,480
is it just for landmark trees?

1436
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,559
» I believe that's any tree.

1437
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,640
» Yeah, pretty much any any significant

1438
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:58,240
tree. But from the um for the

1439
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,440
significant trees, like Blake said, we

1440
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,359
have run into a couple of these

1441
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,760
situations. And what we really do is we

1442
01:02:01,359 --> 01:02:06,319
rely a lot on our arborist. We rely on

1443
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:08,880
the arborists that the property owner um

1444
01:02:06,319 --> 01:02:10,880
hires. So they're hiring someone to go

1445
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:13,440
out and evaluate the impact of their

1446
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:15,839
development. And then our arborists and

1447
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:18,960
the committee review that report. And

1448
01:02:15,839 --> 01:02:21,760
what we've seen in these cases where

1449
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:25,599
Blake's tree is impacting my right to do

1450
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:27,280
my my project, um the arborists have

1451
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:29,440
been able to work together to say,

1452
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:32,720
"Well, if you move it a little bit over

1453
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:34,880
here or if you do hand digging here for

1454
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,520
these utilities that it's not going to

1455
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:41,599
cause significant damage." So, most

1456
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:43,760
trees can withstand a bit of um uh I

1457
01:02:41,599 --> 01:02:45,040
guess impact, if you will. And I think

1458
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,880
again we're going back to those

1459
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:50,160
arborists who are those specialists when

1460
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:52,480
it comes to tree um care as well. And so

1461
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:55,359
really relying on their expertise in

1462
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:58,079
that area to look for alternatives. Um

1463
01:02:55,359 --> 01:02:59,520
and in every case that I can think of,

1464
01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:03,599
we've been able to come up with some

1465
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:06,960
alternative that um that works. the if I

1466
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:09,440
may um the ordinance also has in there

1467
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,839
some degree of flexibility to

1468
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:15,280
accommodate if there's a intention to

1469
01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:18,160
retain the landmark tree. So reducing

1470
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,839
setbacks, increasing lot coverage. Uh we

1471
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:22,079
we've already eliminated parking

1472
01:03:19,839 --> 01:03:24,799
citywide. There's so there's some

1473
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:26,720
dynamics that are there. Also what gets

1474
01:03:24,799 --> 01:03:28,559
into that reasonleness is we talk a

1475
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,480
little bit about okay different types

1476
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:31,839
and again there's costs and implications

1477
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,520
to all these things. So, I don't want to

1478
01:03:31,839 --> 01:03:36,240
imply that that it's just easy to do

1479
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:37,680
some of these, but looking at a

1480
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:40,559
different type of footer instead of

1481
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:42,960
doing a, you know, a trench uh uh

1482
01:03:40,559 --> 01:03:44,640
foundation for a particular home where

1483
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,880
you're having to, you know, prune off

1484
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:49,680
significant portion of the roots for a

1485
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:52,880
landmark tree. Can you do post and beam?

1486
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:55,760
Can you do other things that allow you

1487
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:57,520
to, you know, to minimize the impact to

1488
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,960
some of those critical root zone areas

1489
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,280
and stuff?

1490
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,119
I do see this being challenging for, you

1491
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,799
know, if you have an area that's

1492
01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:07,520
undeveloped where you have wooded

1493
01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:09,680
acreage and these lots are being created

1494
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:11,760
that are smaller, people are going to

1495
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,359
want to develop as, you know,

1496
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,520
substantial amounts of the width of that

1497
01:04:13,359 --> 01:04:17,200
lot in a lot of cases. and seems like

1498
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:21,119
there would be some circumstances where

1499
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:24,640
it's very difficult to avoid affecting

1500
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:26,960
um you know the critical root structure

1501
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:29,039
and um but I guess that's been a

1502
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,640
condition that's been ongoing for

1503
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:32,480
doesn't necessarily have to do with the

1504
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:35,039
landmark tree ordinance. It's just that

1505
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:38,799
probably has some more teeth to it. Um,

1506
01:04:35,039 --> 01:04:41,760
other question I had is I the fee that

1507
01:04:38,799 --> 01:04:45,119
we discussed, there's also a fine um as

1508
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:48,319
well that is tied to if you do remove a

1509
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:51,359
landmark tree. Um, have we thought about

1510
01:04:48,319 --> 01:04:53,599
just, you know, it's like I mean is the

1511
01:04:51,359 --> 01:04:55,760
fee going to be, you know, more than the

1512
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:57,200
fine, less than the fine? How how does

1513
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:58,880
that work with those two things? Because

1514
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:01,119
it's like you could see scenarios where

1515
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:04,000
people would just cut down the tree and

1516
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:08,880
and and get the fine. the the fine is

1517
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:11,760
based off of the maximum amount we can

1518
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:14,640
charge and it's still being considered a

1519
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:17,920
gross misdemeanor. So, this is a civil

1520
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:21,119
violation, not a criminal violation. And

1521
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:23,280
so, the courts set some of those uh

1522
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:26,000
monetary amounts. So, when we go through

1523
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:29,599
and if we are administering those fines

1524
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:31,359
and penalties um then that's where that

1525
01:05:29,599 --> 01:05:34,400
dollar amount comes from. We have not

1526
01:05:31,359 --> 01:05:36,559
set the inloo payment so I can't say

1527
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,920
entirely what that is but um that's

1528
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:40,559
certainly something that we can consider

1529
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:43,920
to make sure uh it's commensurate but

1530
01:05:40,559 --> 01:05:46,079
the goal I think the goal at least uh

1531
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:51,119
initially from our thought process with

1532
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:55,039
the inloo payment is um thinking about

1533
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:58,400
the dynamic of um where you're you know

1534
01:05:55,039 --> 01:06:01,039
so one purchasing the tree uh two

1535
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:03,440
planting it and then having as the

1536
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:06,000
ordinance calls out for a five-year

1537
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:09,359
monitoring plan. So, there has to be

1538
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:12,319
enough in there to accommodate that, you

1539
01:06:09,359 --> 01:06:13,920
know, that effort to say, okay, you're

1540
01:06:12,319 --> 01:06:15,440
planting it here and you're and you

1541
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,359
know, whose responsibility is it to

1542
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,920
monitor and and to go through that is

1543
01:06:17,359 --> 01:06:22,880
that fall back then onto city staff to

1544
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:24,720
do that work? Um, you know, where that's

1545
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:29,160
where that's occurring. So, we'll we'll

1546
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,160
we'll need to do that work. We have not

1547
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:39,760
um the section on removal I'm generally

1548
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:42,000
just concerned there's a lot of

1549
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:45,119
subjectivity to

1550
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:46,799
um you know if reasonable efforts if if

1551
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:49,599
it impacts the reasonable use of the

1552
01:06:46,799 --> 01:06:51,680
property one

1553
01:06:49,599 --> 01:06:54,559
uh if reasonable efforts have been made

1554
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:57,280
to avoid and minimize the impact um and

1555
01:06:54,559 --> 01:07:00,079
then there's a priority order sequential

1556
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:03,280
order of preference avoiding the impact,

1557
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:05,280
minimizing the impact, compensation for

1558
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:07,280
removal

1559
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:09,359
at a ratio determined by the director.

1560
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:12,640
So there is sort of a facility for a

1561
01:07:09,359 --> 01:07:15,680
calculation of an in I guess that's kind

1562
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:18,160
of a unspecified inluff fee. Um and then

1563
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:21,920
lastly the the the reductions you

1564
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:23,440
mentioned setbacks lot coverage um upon

1565
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:25,839
the finding that the reduction will not

1566
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:29,200
create significant impacts.

1567
01:07:25,839 --> 01:07:31,280
That last phrase there is is that trying

1568
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,839
to reference impacts to the tree

1569
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,599
situation or just that the setback

1570
01:07:33,839 --> 01:07:37,920
reduction or any of these other

1571
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:40,160
reductions won't

1572
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,920
impact the neighborhood character or the

1573
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:45,559
neighbor or like what is the impact what

1574
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,559
we're referring to there.

1575
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:52,559
» It's often referring to um

1576
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:55,440
let me make sure I want

1577
01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:57,359
» To item four. I'm Yeah. Roman number

1578
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:00,880
four.

1579
01:07:57,359 --> 01:08:04,160
Yes. So, when you're when you're

1580
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:06,000
altering that development component, so

1581
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,920
let's say you're building an ADU in a

1582
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:11,039
rear yard or you're making an extension

1583
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:14,079
on that home that that

1584
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:17,520
uh reduction does not create another

1585
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:21,600
impact that's greater on the you know

1586
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:25,359
within the development proposal. So um

1587
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:28,640
you could argue uh loss of you know

1588
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:30,880
privacy or you could argue um you know

1589
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:33,279
some other component that is is it

1590
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:35,440
creating is it is it a fire concern is a

1591
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:37,679
building code concern you know what are

1592
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:40,319
the other things that go into that as

1593
01:08:37,679 --> 01:08:41,759
you're beginning to evaluate and look at

1594
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:44,719
those different things. So we want to

1595
01:08:41,759 --> 01:08:50,120
make sure we're not trading one thing

1596
01:08:44,719 --> 01:08:50,120
and making something else worse. Yeah,

1597
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:55,199
some of those are more serious like a

1598
01:08:53,759 --> 01:08:56,799
fire code thing than others. There could

1599
01:08:55,199 --> 01:08:58,640
be, you know, view or there could be a

1600
01:08:56,799 --> 01:08:59,359
lot more subject subjective concerns

1601
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,839
there.

1602
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:04,159
» Yeah. And we we I I don't want to imply

1603
01:09:01,839 --> 01:09:06,799
that you can just circumvent building

1604
01:09:04,159 --> 01:09:08,159
code or fire code. That's not that's not

1605
01:09:06,799 --> 01:09:11,199
what I was trying to imply with that

1606
01:09:08,159 --> 01:09:14,880
statement. But just looking at um the

1607
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:18,080
impacts of that alternative scenario and

1608
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:20,400
trying to determine are we are we having

1609
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:23,440
good intentions but creating some other

1610
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:24,239
circumstance that we need to you know

1611
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:26,000
» Evaluate further.

1612
01:09:24,239 --> 01:09:28,640
» So what does this priority order section

1613
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:30,560
look like when when you're you know

1614
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,960
you've tried to reasonably work around

1615
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:34,319
this tree there's a conversation about a

1616
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,239
fee. There's a conversation about

1617
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:38,960
setbacks. Like how how would you balance

1618
01:09:36,239 --> 01:09:42,319
that out? Well, you know, this takes a

1619
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:45,040
lot of um direction from how we do

1620
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:46,640
wetland mitigation sequencing and and

1621
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,480
impacts to that. So, it kind of follows

1622
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:51,279
a similar rhythm and pattern in that

1623
01:09:48,480 --> 01:09:55,120
respect. So, again, the goal is always

1624
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:56,880
to start with avoidance uh and not uh

1625
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:59,360
you know, not impact it. So, if there's

1626
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,800
an alternative design scenario where we

1627
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:03,120
can say, hey, we're not going to impact

1628
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:05,600
it at all, then that's kind of where you

1629
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:08,000
start. And if there are no reasonable

1630
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:10,719
options that you can do, then you can

1631
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:12,800
say, okay, well, well, what can we do to

1632
01:10:10,719 --> 01:10:14,320
minimize the impact to the greatest

1633
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,640
extent possible? So that's when you get

1634
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:19,840
into Roman numeral number two there. Is

1635
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:22,640
there a way to do certain things that

1636
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:25,040
help benefit it? May not eliminate the

1637
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:27,040
impact entirely, but we're going to

1638
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:29,360
significantly take it down to just the

1639
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:31,600
minimal amount that's that's still allow

1640
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,199
reasonable. The compensating piece is

1641
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,520
really talking about if there's

1642
01:10:33,199 --> 01:10:39,760
tradeoffs for certain things, you know,

1643
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:41,360
where you can say, okay, um, and it's

1644
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,440
probably a little easier to to

1645
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:45,120
contemplate when you're talking about

1646
01:10:43,440 --> 01:10:46,880
uh, wetlands because you can think about

1647
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:50,239
it from the context of saying, okay,

1648
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:52,080
well, if I if I have a buffer averaging

1649
01:10:50,239 --> 01:10:54,480
and I say, okay, I'm going to reduce the

1650
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:58,400
buffer here and extend it there, you can

1651
01:10:54,480 --> 01:11:02,000
do some u compensating and and so maybe

1652
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:04,880
on the um landmark tree dynamic where

1653
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:07,040
you say, "Okay, I've got a 40 foot uh

1654
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,120
root zone. I'm going to impact it a

1655
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:12,000
little bit over here, but I'm going to

1656
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:14,320
leave a little bit more space uh in this

1657
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,880
area to support it." So you can offset

1658
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:20,400
it by kind of going through the intent

1659
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:22,719
of all of this is to go through those

1660
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:27,040
different design iterations and really

1661
01:11:22,719 --> 01:11:29,120
contemplate how you can try to

1662
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:31,840
balance out those competing priorities

1663
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:34,000
and those competing objectives. And so

1664
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:35,520
no two projects are the same. You're

1665
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:37,920
looking at all of those kind of things

1666
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,760
and trying to figure out okay how do we

1667
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,159
re and again with the goal of protection

1668
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:44,320
and preservation. But this is one of the

1669
01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:48,080
things that I think to some degree

1670
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:49,679
frustrates the building community is how

1671
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:51,760
do I know if this project's going to

1672
01:11:49,679 --> 01:11:54,400
work until I sit down and kind of design

1673
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:56,159
all this stuff up front? And so there

1674
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:59,040
is, you've heard me talk a little bit

1675
01:11:56,159 --> 01:12:00,880
about kind of the upfront work that now

1676
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,719
needs to be done. I'm doing tree surveys

1677
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:05,440
and I'm getting a civil engineer to do

1678
01:12:02,719 --> 01:12:07,199
some preliminary utility work and trying

1679
01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:08,480
to figure out all these things and going

1680
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:11,360
through a couple different design

1681
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:15,360
iterations of how to place things on the

1682
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:16,960
property because I don't know what's you

1683
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,800
know what the sequencing is. I don't

1684
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:21,360
know what's considered reasonable and so

1685
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,280
we're going through those variables. Uh

1686
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:25,280
and so there's a commitment both from

1687
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:27,440
our development community side and from

1688
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:29,040
our staff side. And I think that speaks

1689
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:31,040
a little bit to the some of the comments

1690
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,280
you heard from from both our public

1691
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:36,159
commenters tonight where they want some

1692
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:38,560
of that predictability. Um, but it's a

1693
01:12:36,159 --> 01:12:40,400
it's a challenging situation where you

1694
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:42,480
want a certain degree of predictability,

1695
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:46,480
but then you also want to maintain some

1696
01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:48,800
flexibility to to be able to look for

1697
01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:50,640
design considerations that weren't um

1698
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:52,719
codified in some of this. And so that's

1699
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:55,520
the intent behind of this is to give

1700
01:12:52,719 --> 01:12:57,040
some direction but not be so narrow, so

1701
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:59,199
tight that you can't consider the

1702
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,960
one-offs and the variables.

1703
01:12:59,199 --> 01:13:01,920
» Have we gone through this process during

1704
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,199
the interim?

1705
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,800
» Yes.

1706
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:06,400
» Extensively

1707
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,440
» For months.

1708
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,080
» It years.

1709
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:11,080
» Years.

1710
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:11,080
» Yeah.

1711
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,400
» And

1712
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:18,400
» What what types of outcomes have you

1713
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:21,280
seen from this mitigation? We've seen uh

1714
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:24,960
we've seen a a probably a full range of

1715
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:27,520
them. Some that go to Yep, that makes

1716
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:30,159
sense where that tree is located on the

1717
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:32,320
property. There's no way of you know

1718
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:35,679
reasonably using that property. So the

1719
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:39,600
tree uh warrants removal. We've some

1720
01:13:35,679 --> 01:13:41,920
we've seen some where you are placing

1721
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:44,159
the you know the home for example

1722
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:47,440
somewhere else like sliding it further

1723
01:13:44,159 --> 01:13:49,520
forward. um you know, reconfiguring

1724
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:52,159
where they sit on the lot, thinking

1725
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:54,320
through the shape of that home. Instead

1726
01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:56,159
of just being a rectangular home, maybe

1727
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:58,400
it's now an L-shape and it, you know,

1728
01:13:56,159 --> 01:14:00,880
and there's some accommodations there.

1729
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:02,640
We've even gone so far in our thought

1730
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:04,800
process and we're working with one of

1731
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:08,239
the council members on thinking about

1732
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:11,040
different uh home types. So, uh one's

1733
01:14:08,239 --> 01:14:13,360
called a a mobile dwelling unit and so

1734
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:16,159
it's like a park model where it sits on

1735
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:18,159
a chassis. Well, that may not require a

1736
01:14:16,159 --> 01:14:19,360
permanent foundation that then impacts

1737
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:21,679
the root, you know. So, there's

1738
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:23,440
different dynamics and things like that

1739
01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:26,960
that we're trying to kind of think

1740
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:29,600
through and work through to say um

1741
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:31,600
driveway design is another example.

1742
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:33,920
Okay. Instead of doing an impervious

1743
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:35,920
driveway, can you think about other

1744
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:38,640
materials or other design components

1745
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:40,880
that do that kind of stuff? So, um I

1746
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,760
don't know if you want to elaborate, but

1747
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:45,840
» No, I think um it really comes down to

1748
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:48,640
making sure that all alter alternatives

1749
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:52,320
are being addressed, right? The the um

1750
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:53,760
the days of saying this is the the plan

1751
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:57,280
that I want and I'm going to put it on

1752
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:59,040
any lot anywhere, those are gone. Um

1753
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,040
we're trying to balance too many things.

1754
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:03,679
And so I think what we look at is have

1755
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:07,679
you really explored alternatives? Um and

1756
01:15:03,679 --> 01:15:09,840
that's really important. Um, and I think

1757
01:15:07,679 --> 01:15:12,400
I'd be willing to bet that Mr. Estridge

1758
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:14,480
and other people that have been in um,

1759
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,000
in the development world, they go

1760
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:17,280
through these alternatives already,

1761
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,440
right? They're trying to see if they're

1762
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:21,840
proform work. They they they take our

1763
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:23,600
existing rules and regulations. They

1764
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,880
throw out a design out there. They work

1765
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,640
with their designers to put something

1766
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,320
down on the table and then they go back

1767
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,920
in and they go tweak it. Well, this rule

1768
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:31,360
doesn't allow this or maybe that rule

1769
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:33,280
doesn't allow that. So, they they end up

1770
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:36,640
tweaking it. And we see this a lot in

1771
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:39,280
design review. um we will see a project

1772
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,719
that comes in for an application and we

1773
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,719
we look at it and go well have you

1774
01:15:40,719 --> 01:15:45,040
thought about this and the designer says

1775
01:15:42,719 --> 01:15:46,320
yeah that was plan number 32 right we've

1776
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:50,480
already gone through all of these and

1777
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:54,159
and in them doing their work to ensure

1778
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:55,600
that um the project can move forward um

1779
01:15:54,159 --> 01:15:58,800
they go through these alternatives and

1780
01:15:55,600 --> 01:16:02,000
so it's really to I don't think it's

1781
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:04,640
asking more than um much more of what

1782
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:06,719
they're doing already um it does cost

1783
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:08,960
more. Um that there's the reality of

1784
01:16:06,719 --> 01:16:10,480
that and and that's we're trying to

1785
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:14,719
balance these two, you know, the

1786
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:17,280
preservation and and development and um

1787
01:16:14,719 --> 01:16:18,239
those upfront costs are real. Can't you

1788
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:20,080
can't hide that.

1789
01:16:18,239 --> 01:16:22,159
» I thought of another example that might

1790
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:24,880
help. So, uh we were working on a

1791
01:16:22,159 --> 01:16:28,080
project a couple months back. Uh three

1792
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:30,560
lots side by side. Builder wants to come

1793
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:32,640
in. There's four landmark trees on the

1794
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,640
property and a variety of significant

1795
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:37,440
trees. So when you talk about that

1796
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:41,120
compensation piece, we said, "Okay, as

1797
01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:42,480
we start to do the tree um survey and

1798
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:45,199
look at the health and the quality and

1799
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:47,440
the size of those trees, um we started

1800
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:50,080
working with uh the project planner,

1801
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:51,520
with the applicant about where they were

1802
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:53,920
placed on the site, how they were

1803
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:56,000
arranged on the site, what we could do.

1804
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:58,960
We we moved things forward a little bit

1805
01:16:56,000 --> 01:17:01,920
more to give more preservation uh space

1806
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:04,719
for the landmark trees. it became very

1807
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:07,520
clear that one of the landmark trees,

1808
01:17:04,719 --> 01:17:09,840
for example, was um in declining and

1809
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:11,760
poor health as it existed on the

1810
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:14,000
property already. So, it didn't make

1811
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:17,040
sense to retain that particular landmark

1812
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:20,880
tree, but you had one, you know, over

1813
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:22,960
here on the site that's, you know, 32 in

1814
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:24,880
and in great health. So, it's like,

1815
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:27,280
okay, well, we'll we'll allow for you to

1816
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:29,280
remove this landmark tree that's in

1817
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:31,679
declining and poor health, but you need

1818
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:33,360
to protect and preserve that one because

1819
01:17:31,679 --> 01:17:34,960
that has the potential to become a

1820
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,640
landmark tree and we don't want to lose

1821
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:38,080
out on that. So that's kind of that

1822
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:40,560
compensatory thing where we're saying,

1823
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:43,600
okay, we had another one another example

1824
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:45,520
where again they removed um multiple

1825
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:47,440
trees on the site, but we wanted to

1826
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:49,760
protect and preserve others and think

1827
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:52,000
through utility placements and driveway

1828
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:54,800
locations and construction staging areas

1829
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:56,159
and placement on the lot. So it's a it's

1830
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:58,080
a bigger effort.

1831
01:17:56,159 --> 01:18:00,239
» I think I was reading that compensating

1832
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,679
as monetary, but the way you explained

1833
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:02,560
it, it's more about balancing or

1834
01:18:01,679 --> 01:18:05,520
averaging.

1835
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:08,760
» Yeah. Okay.

1836
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:08,760
That's all.

1837
01:18:10,480 --> 01:18:18,239
I guess I feel um convinced after all

1838
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:22,719
this discussion and and public comment

1839
01:18:18,239 --> 01:18:26,320
and the language set forth overlaps to a

1840
01:18:22,719 --> 01:18:29,600
degree with what would need to be

1841
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:32,480
fleshed out more in the tree bank or you

1842
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:34,480
know fee in lie of you know the proposed

1843
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:36,480
mitigation plan says you know

1844
01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:38,320
replacement of 3 to one or is required

1845
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:40,880
by the director. And then we're just

1846
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:42,320
discussing how the fee in lie of would

1847
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:46,640
need to determine those things. So it

1848
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:50,159
does seem like there's enough um

1849
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:53,440
reason to to pause and to further

1850
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:56,000
develop this from a variety of fronts I

1851
01:18:53,440 --> 01:19:00,159
think um of what does the fee in lie of

1852
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:02,400
mean the tree bank reasonable use um

1853
01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:05,199
role of the director of a few different

1854
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:09,840
areas. So, I think I've I feel confident

1855
01:19:05,199 --> 01:19:11,360
that that's where I've I've landed. Um,

1856
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:13,679
and I don't know if I I don't think I

1857
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:14,960
would feel comfortable recommending this

1858
01:19:13,679 --> 01:19:18,320
move forward at this moment. I don't

1859
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:18,880
know if anybody else

1860
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:21,600
» Thoughts on that.

1861
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:24,000
» What would extending the emergency and

1862
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:26,400
and doing this more in tandem with the

1863
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,120
urban tree plan look like? Is that

1864
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:29,040
feasible?

1865
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:31,120
» Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And that's

1866
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:34,159
perfectly within your discretion to to

1867
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:36,080
take that position. So um my

1868
01:19:34,159 --> 01:19:40,719
understanding of Washington state law is

1869
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:43,280
that there is no limitation on uh how

1870
01:19:40,719 --> 01:19:46,640
long an interim can stay interim. They

1871
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:48,880
don't predefine that. It's only that it

1872
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:51,440
h it can only be done in sixmonth

1873
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:55,040
increments. So essentially what we would

1874
01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:56,960
have to do is prior to the expiration of

1875
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:59,280
the current interim ordinance which is

1876
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:01,920
September of this year we would have to

1877
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:03,520
go back to the city council hold another

1878
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,760
public hearing with them saying we'd

1879
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:07,679
like to extend it an additional 6

1880
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:11,600
months. So basically it would go from

1881
01:20:07,679 --> 01:20:13,679
September of 26 to March of 27 and then

1882
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:16,719
that would give us the additional time.

1883
01:20:13,679 --> 01:20:18,480
And again that's a perfectly viable

1884
01:20:16,719 --> 01:20:21,280
option. We would basically go back to

1885
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:22,640
the city council and say we got some

1886
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:24,239
clear direction from the planning

1887
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:26,719
commission and from our public comment

1888
01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:29,120
that they would like these components in

1889
01:20:26,719 --> 01:20:31,040
the ordinance. We need additional time

1890
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:34,640
to make those adjustments and

1891
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:36,800
refinements and then we would you know

1892
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,560
if they agree then they would extend the

1893
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:40,400
interim ordinance. We would then come

1894
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:43,040
back do the work that you've requested

1895
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:45,760
of us come back to you in the future

1896
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:47,920
time frame to say did we get this right?

1897
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:50,080
you can give us additional direction if

1898
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:52,159
you need to and then we would go forward

1899
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:55,280
and we would just keep going in six

1900
01:20:52,159 --> 01:20:56,560
month increments for until we till you

1901
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:57,760
felt like there was something you could

1902
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:01,120
support.

1903
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:04,880
» Is does some of those pieces need the

1904
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:06,560
urban tree urban forestry plan

1905
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,480
work to be finished? Like are we tying

1906
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:10,000
oursel to that project as well?

1907
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:13,280
» Um go that way.

1908
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:15,679
» It certainly helps inform the process.

1909
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:18,400
It's not mandatory. I mean, we have,

1910
01:21:15,679 --> 01:21:20,400
like I said earlier, we have other codes

1911
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:23,679
that are in place that begin to inform

1912
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:26,159
all of this, but it's a it's a little

1913
01:21:23,679 --> 01:21:28,719
bit of cart before the horse in terms of

1914
01:21:26,159 --> 01:21:30,480
typically those the comp plan is our

1915
01:21:28,719 --> 01:21:32,640
overarching document. Then you have the

1916
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:34,880
functional plans like the bike master

1917
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:38,480
plan, PE. So, the urban forestry plan

1918
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:40,239
sets that kind of next tier of policy,

1919
01:21:38,480 --> 01:21:43,120
if you will, and then usually you

1920
01:21:40,239 --> 01:21:45,040
implement codes. there's there's not an

1921
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:47,360
obligation to do it that way. It just

1922
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:49,199
helps to kind of again inform and set

1923
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:53,520
especially when you have competing

1924
01:21:49,199 --> 01:21:56,560
priorities. But if we agree collectively

1925
01:21:53,520 --> 01:22:00,800
that the goal is still to start with a

1926
01:21:56,560 --> 01:22:03,760
preservation mindset to then um allow

1927
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:07,280
for housing development to occur and

1928
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:10,000
some you know limited loss and removal

1929
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:13,440
of those trees and that we want to

1930
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:15,600
provide a range of options in your

1931
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:18,159
sequencing conversation. Essentially

1932
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:20,880
what you what you would anticipate is if

1933
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:23,440
you look at that section of the code you

1934
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:24,880
know whe and I'm I don't want to commit

1935
01:22:23,440 --> 01:22:27,920
to this entirely but if you're talking

1936
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:31,280
about removal then one of those

1937
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:33,840
sequencing is paying an inlue fee

1938
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:36,000
instead of a replant requirement and

1939
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:38,320
again part of the direction and you can

1940
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:39,920
provide at least you can provide

1941
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:42,800
direction or you can provide thoughts if

1942
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:46,800
you like about do you like the idea of

1943
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:49,760
having some on-site requirement, some

1944
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:53,199
potential off-site accommodation and in

1945
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:55,440
loo and we can figure out the ratios or

1946
01:22:53,199 --> 01:22:57,520
are you comfortable just allowing in loo

1947
01:22:55,440 --> 01:22:59,120
entirely? I mean that's kind of those

1948
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:03,120
are some of the pieces that we would

1949
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:04,639
have to um identify as we begin to do

1950
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:06,800
that and we can do that work and bring

1951
01:23:04,639 --> 01:23:08,880
back a recommendation or if you have

1952
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:11,040
thoughts on it I'm happy to you know

1953
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,400
take those comments tonight. If you get

1954
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:14,639
to the point where you want to give us

1955
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:16,320
direction, then we can take that too.

1956
01:23:14,639 --> 01:23:18,960
But don't feel obligated like you have

1957
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:20,480
to give us direction. We we can we can

1958
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:22,159
craft it further.

1959
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:23,920
» My biggest concern has been that I could

1960
01:23:22,159 --> 01:23:26,880
see that this ordinance would really

1961
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:28,719
affect people financially. Um that it

1962
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:32,080
could really have a big impact on

1963
01:23:28,719 --> 01:23:34,800
someone. And so I'm wondering if

1964
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:39,040
there's, you know, has there been

1965
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:42,960
thought put into maybe giving benefit to

1966
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:44,239
people who retain landmark trees or or

1967
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,560
you know, somehow

1968
01:23:44,239 --> 01:23:49,280
» In what format in terms of like a

1969
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:52,159
financial break?

1970
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:56,080
» Maybe. So yeah, because I feel like that

1971
01:23:52,159 --> 01:23:58,880
that's a I mean it's a benefit to the

1972
01:23:56,080 --> 01:24:00,960
community, but a lot of people, you

1973
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:04,000
know, that this ordinance happened

1974
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:05,840
suddenly, so people didn't necessarily

1975
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:06,880
know that it was going to happen and it

1976
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:09,520
happened. And

1977
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:11,679
» I think most people like trees. I mean

1978
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:13,199
most people like the idea of having a a

1979
01:24:11,679 --> 01:24:16,480
forested

1980
01:24:13,199 --> 01:24:18,480
um city but if then the fee in lie of or

1981
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:20,159
the fine or these other things become

1982
01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:22,080
such that it's just like well it's just

1983
01:24:20,159 --> 01:24:24,320
a a hit that you have to take in order

1984
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:25,600
to do this kind of wonder if that we've

1985
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,920
talked about the

1986
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:30,480
» Well and and keep in mind the at least

1987
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:33,360
the way I'm thinking about it and I can

1988
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:37,600
adjust if necessary but the fee in lie

1989
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:40,719
is to give somebody an option right um

1990
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:42,560
and So, it's never a requirement that

1991
01:24:40,719 --> 01:24:45,679
you must pay this. It's not an

1992
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:48,880
application or a permit fee. It's, hey,

1993
01:24:45,679 --> 01:24:51,679
I don't physically have the space or I

1994
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:54,080
don't want to replant. I want an

1995
01:24:51,679 --> 01:24:56,400
alternative. So, it's a it's a choice.

1996
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:58,880
Now, they wouldn't necessarily it's up

1997
01:24:56,400 --> 01:25:01,120
to us to decide what that fee amount

1998
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:02,000
would be. And so that may not feel like

1999
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:04,159
a choice, but

2000
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:07,440
» Yeah, I just feel like there's a lot of

2001
01:25:04,159 --> 01:25:10,000
lots that if you draw a diameter of 70

2002
01:25:07,440 --> 01:25:12,239
feet circle on a lot, it's going to have

2003
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:14,239
a big impact. And I know that there's

2004
01:25:12,239 --> 01:25:16,719
flexibility within like, you know, get

2005
01:25:14,239 --> 01:25:18,719
an arborist and research what you can do

2006
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:20,400
and look at all the, you know, things

2007
01:25:18,719 --> 01:25:21,679
that are possible. But I just see that

2008
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:23,440
as being, you know, it's going to be a

2009
01:25:21,679 --> 01:25:25,440
challenge. It has been a challenge for

2010
01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:28,800
people. And so um

2011
01:25:25,440 --> 01:25:32,800
» Well and I think part of where the um

2012
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:36,000
urban forestry plan helps to inform that

2013
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:41,600
but again uh are not obligated to do

2014
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:44,880
that is when we talked about it in 2024

2015
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:49,040
the council was talking about a target

2016
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:51,520
canopy for the entire city. Um, if you

2017
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:53,520
go back to that draft plan, the draft

2018
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:56,159
plan looked at what our current

2019
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:59,520
conditions are and we have about 40%

2020
01:25:56,159 --> 01:26:01,280
canopy coverage for the city. To get to

2021
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:03,360
some of the development goals, the

2022
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:06,880
housing goals in particular that we

2023
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:08,480
have, it's going to be hard to maintain

2024
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:11,120
40%.

2025
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:15,360
So, the question becomes,

2026
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:17,360
what level are we at? Uh, or where do we

2027
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:19,280
want to be? What is it? Is there an

2028
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:21,760
aspirational target? Are we comfortable

2029
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:24,960
dropping below 40 and doing that? And I

2030
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:29,120
will say, but for maybe one other city

2031
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:31,199
in the state of Washington, 40% is very

2032
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,719
um

2033
01:26:31,199 --> 01:26:34,960
aggressive is not the right word. It's a

2034
01:26:32,719 --> 01:26:37,920
high it's a high high standard. There's

2035
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:41,760
not many if any at all that are above

2036
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:45,920
40%. So if we're comfortable scaling

2037
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:47,920
back on that then you can talk about

2038
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:49,840
different replant ratios. You can talk

2039
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:52,880
about different in you can talk about

2040
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:56,400
different kind of compensation if but if

2041
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:59,520
we truly are trying to stay at 40 or get

2042
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:01,600
higher than 40 then we've got to factor

2043
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:04,320
that in because we're we're not going to

2044
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:06,639
get there without those replant values.

2045
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:09,520
And so that's where some of the policy

2046
01:27:06,639 --> 01:27:11,760
discussions. Now could we do something

2047
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:14,800
ahead of time and then if the policy

2048
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:16,719
discussion is more ambitious then we

2049
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,400
come back and change the code we could

2050
01:27:16,719 --> 01:27:20,400
do it that way too I mean none of these

2051
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:22,159
codes are

2052
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:24,719
you know etched in stone there is a

2053
01:27:22,159 --> 01:27:29,639
process to amend them so it's just a

2054
01:27:24,719 --> 01:27:29,639
it's a cart and horse kind of scenario

2055
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:38,320
» Just on that comment I feel like that's

2056
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:40,000
a classic problem of the commons where

2057
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:41,760
the benefits are diffused and the risks

2058
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:44,239
are concentrated and the tree is chopped

2059
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:47,440
down. And I think that's one of the

2060
01:27:44,239 --> 01:27:49,120
reasons why there's value in a policy

2061
01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:52,320
like this to set that preservation

2062
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:54,800
mindset to have a government policy step

2063
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:57,920
in place where the private incentive is

2064
01:27:54,800 --> 01:28:00,480
not aligned with a community incentive.

2065
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:03,760
Um so I just to re reiterate the value

2066
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:06,400
in having this uh mindset and structure

2067
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:07,679
in place for that very reason. Um, you

2068
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,440
know, nobody's talking about

2069
01:28:07,679 --> 01:28:11,760
compensating cyclists because they're

2070
01:28:09,440 --> 01:28:14,880
not polluting like the cars are, though.

2071
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:18,280
I would love that. Um, a similar a

2072
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:18,280
similar thing,

2073
01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:26,080
» Rose.

2074
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:27,840
» Yeah, thank you. Um, yeah, I I echo a

2075
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:30,639
lot of the comments. I think there's the

2076
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:34,480
tension between like predictability and

2077
01:28:30,639 --> 01:28:38,560
clarity and having the ability to uh

2078
01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:41,520
make decisions based on the uh on

2079
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:45,040
specific projects and specific things.

2080
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:48,560
Um, one of the things I mentioned uh,

2081
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:52,719
last time we met is is there a way that

2082
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:55,440
we can create a trigger or some way of

2083
01:28:52,719 --> 01:28:57,360
um, monitoring the sort of the

2084
01:28:55,440 --> 01:28:59,920
challenges, the struggles, the

2085
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:02,480
opportunities and like

2086
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:04,880
I I guess what I'm looking at is could

2087
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:06,560
we create a policy today that said in

2088
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:09,360
two years we're going to look back and

2089
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:11,440
we're going to have an analysis of how

2090
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:13,760
this policy either

2091
01:29:11,440 --> 01:29:15,600
helped tree protection and what the

2092
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:18,960
impacts were to housing so that we can

2093
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:20,239
really like hone in on what it what it

2094
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,080
is and I know that you all have been

2095
01:29:20,239 --> 01:29:24,000
working with it for a couple of years

2096
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:26,800
already so that you you have some of

2097
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:29,040
that intrinsic knowledge but I think

2098
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:31,679
just getting it really clear and having

2099
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:34,000
a report out to say you know and then

2100
01:29:31,679 --> 01:29:36,560
maybe at that time we're also aligning

2101
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:38,480
any revisions to uh the urban tree

2102
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:41,440
canopy plan.

2103
01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:44,480
So the short answer is yes, but I think

2104
01:29:41,440 --> 01:29:47,280
the longer answer is

2105
01:29:44,480 --> 01:29:49,199
understanding what those measurables are

2106
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:51,920
that you all would want to see or that

2107
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:55,360
we would need to see as a community um

2108
01:29:51,920 --> 01:30:00,480
are really where the details would lie.

2109
01:29:55,360 --> 01:30:03,679
Um, you may recall we had the um, I

2110
01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:05,520
think it was the 2018 ADU regulations

2111
01:30:03,679 --> 01:30:07,679
where it said, "Hey, if you get to more

2112
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:10,480
than 50 in any particular neighborhood

2113
01:30:07,679 --> 01:30:13,040
or if you get more than 200 citywide or

2114
01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:15,440
and there was a couple triggers in that

2115
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,960
code that required us to kind of

2116
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:19,520
re-evaluate

2117
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:22,080
um, our rules and regulations. So, we

2118
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:23,840
could certainly build in something like

2119
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:26,080
that, but we would have to figure out

2120
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:27,600
what those,

2121
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:30,667
you know, what those milestones, what

2122
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:32,560
those trigger points are for that piece.

2123
01:30:30,667 --> 01:30:35,920
[snorts] Um, you also heard some public

2124
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:39,440
comment tonight about um, you know, that

2125
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:41,840
wanting that additional clarity um, and

2126
01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:45,040
transparency on certain things. We

2127
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:48,480
certainly set out to do that with the

2128
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:52,000
inventory. Uh I will be very frank and

2129
01:30:48,480 --> 01:30:53,600
somewhat blunt. Um that was a much

2130
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:58,159
bigger staff lift than we ever

2131
01:30:53,600 --> 01:31:00,159
anticipated. Uh and and so it we have

2132
01:30:58,159 --> 01:31:01,920
not maintained that the way it was

2133
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:04,719
intended. So that is something we would

2134
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:06,400
need to double down on uh and do if

2135
01:31:04,719 --> 01:31:09,199
that's if that's the broader

2136
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:11,360
expectation. But um you know that was

2137
01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:12,960
just that was one of the things in our

2138
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,719
existing workload and our resource

2139
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:17,280
availability where we just couldn't keep

2140
01:31:14,719 --> 01:31:20,560
pace with it as as was initially

2141
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:22,320
intended. Um now can we can we refine

2142
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:24,320
that? Can we get better at that? Sure we

2143
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:26,560
can certainly work towards that but we

2144
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:28,719
are in a constrained environment. U and

2145
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:31,360
so that's a it's one of those things

2146
01:31:28,719 --> 01:31:34,600
that just didn't we didn't quite frankly

2147
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:34,600
get done.

2148
01:31:35,440 --> 01:31:39,840
Um, if we're not moving,

2149
01:31:38,639 --> 01:31:41,280
» I think

2150
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:43,440
» Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

2151
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,960
» Sorry.

2152
01:31:43,440 --> 01:31:48,800
One of the things that I appreciated

2153
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:51,360
about that uh trigger in the ADU code

2154
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:53,840
was that it did come up like it forced

2155
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:56,080
it to come up again. And I feel like

2156
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:59,520
often we say, "Oh, well, you know,

2157
01:31:56,080 --> 01:32:01,040
code's not etched in stone." And then 20

2158
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:03,280
years later we're like, "Well, this is

2159
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:05,760
the way it's always been, you know." Um,

2160
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:09,840
so just wanting to think if there was a

2161
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:11,600
way that um makes us think critically

2162
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:13,440
again in the future and not just let

2163
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:16,639
this get stale.

2164
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:18,239
» Yeah. And certainly open to um I mean we

2165
01:32:16,639 --> 01:32:19,760
could we could absolutely give that some

2166
01:32:18,239 --> 01:32:21,040
more thought. It sounds like if we're

2167
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:23,360
going to take a little time, we can come

2168
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:26,239
back with some you know considerations

2169
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:28,080
and options uh you know to help kind of

2170
01:32:26,239 --> 01:32:30,400
guide that conversation. or if there's

2171
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:32,960
things that you all think tonight make

2172
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:35,960
sense, we're happy to take that that

2173
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:35,960
direction.

2174
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,840
Oh, I was just going to say

2175
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:46,239
process-wise, if we're not moving

2176
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:47,840
towards like clean adop approval, um do

2177
01:32:46,239 --> 01:32:49,280
you feel like we've kind of popcorned

2178
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:51,199
some comments to you, would would it be

2179
01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:55,840
helpful if we packaged some thoughts

2180
01:32:51,199 --> 01:32:57,520
into a a motion on some key key elements

2181
01:32:55,840 --> 01:33:00,080
that were are important to

2182
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:03,840
» Well, let me reiterate what I think I've

2183
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:06,080
heard and if you feel like we need to

2184
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:09,040
» Tighten that up a little bit, then I'm

2185
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:10,800
happy to take that. Um, it sounds to me

2186
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:13,120
like we're not at a point where we're

2187
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:15,360
comfortable recommending as presented to

2188
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:17,280
you tonight and that there is additional

2189
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:20,800
direction and more work that needs to be

2190
01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:25,360
done. And the things that I heard u in

2191
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:27,360
particular were looking at the uh inloo

2192
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:29,840
fee and inloo program and what that

2193
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:32,080
might look like in a in a more defined

2194
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:35,520
manner but we haven't defined what that

2195
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:37,440
looks like yet. So, if I'm operating on

2196
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:38,800
just that, then I'm looking at it from

2197
01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:40,480
the standpoint where we're going to

2198
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:43,040
craft something and present it to you

2199
01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:44,800
all and let you react and respond to it.

2200
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:47,120
But if you have thoughts on what you'd

2201
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:50,880
like to see, I encourage those to come

2202
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:54,719
out. Um, there was concern about the

2203
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:56,480
director's authority uh with regard to

2204
01:33:54,719 --> 01:33:58,400
in particular with regard to the

2205
01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:59,760
landmark tree committee and the

2206
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:03,440
recommendation that they're going to

2207
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:05,840
provide back. Um there was additional

2208
01:34:03,440 --> 01:34:10,000
interest in looking at the kind of

2209
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:14,560
damage, harm, removal trilogy of terms

2210
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:16,560
and and where we can go there. Um

2211
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:19,440
so those are the three most prominent

2212
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:22,159
ones. Um I didn't we talked about the

2213
01:34:19,440 --> 01:34:23,840
fine amount but I I think I responded

2214
01:34:22,159 --> 01:34:26,639
and so I'm not sure if there's more work

2215
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,880
you feel like needs to be done there but

2216
01:34:26,639 --> 01:34:28,560
um

2217
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:29,679
» I think that'd be more tied to the fee

2218
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:31,280
in lie of because

2219
01:34:29,679 --> 01:34:34,400
» So we can consider that as part of the

2220
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:38,480
fee in lie and try to evaluate that a

2221
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:40,080
little bit further. Um,

2222
01:34:38,480 --> 01:34:42,239
is there anything? And then the

2223
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:44,159
triggers, the thing that Rose just

2224
01:34:42,239 --> 01:34:46,960
brought up is what what would be

2225
01:34:44,159 --> 01:34:48,800
something that we would want to use as a

2226
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:50,960
threshold or a milestone to say, "Hey,

2227
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:54,320
if we hit this, then we need to look

2228
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:56,159
closer." Um, right now what we don't

2229
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:58,960
have

2230
01:34:56,159 --> 01:35:00,719
identified, and this is something that

2231
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:04,480
we've talked about with the urban

2232
01:35:00,719 --> 01:35:07,920
forestry plan, is that the LAR data that

2233
01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:10,960
set our tree canopy number, the 40% that

2234
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:14,000
I referenced was done in 2018. What we

2235
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:16,560
don't have is how frequently the city is

2236
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:19,280
doing that. So that may be one of those

2237
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:22,000
triggers is to say, you know, where are

2238
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:24,159
we comfortable if we see the other thing

2239
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:25,840
that's probably worth mentioning just in

2240
01:35:24,159 --> 01:35:30,480
the overall context because it can

2241
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:32,719
really impact those numbers is

2242
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:36,880
private property owners have the ability

2243
01:35:32,719 --> 01:35:39,760
to go to the state and get a forest

2244
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:41,760
practices permit. um which is something

2245
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:46,560
that the state can issue that can allow

2246
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:49,920
for you to uh basically deforest a piece

2247
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:53,920
of property. So it's not uncommon in

2248
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:56,560
this town that you'll get a 20 acre

2249
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:59,600
parcel, a 30 acre parcel, a 70 acre

2250
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:02,000
parcel that gets logged and forested.

2251
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:03,520
That could impact our tree canopy

2252
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:06,800
numbers,

2253
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:10,080
you know, uh s significantly. And we

2254
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:12,560
don't have any any authority on some of

2255
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:14,400
those things. We we have the ability

2256
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:16,560
with the Department of Natural Resources

2257
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:18,560
to provide comment, but they are the

2258
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:21,360
decision-making authority when it comes

2259
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:23,679
to whether or not that forest practices

2260
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:25,120
permit gets issued. Now I will tell you

2261
01:36:23,679 --> 01:36:28,080
there's different categories in

2262
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:30,800
different levels and so if for example

2263
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:32,880
in some of those categories u you're not

2264
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:34,800
allowed to build you can forest it you

2265
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:36,639
can do you know the forest practice

2266
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:38,400
permit you're not allowed to build it's

2267
01:36:36,639 --> 01:36:40,000
a there's a 10-year moratorum for

2268
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:41,920
construction on that site and there and

2269
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:43,679
it requires a replant so there are

2270
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:46,880
things like that but when you look at

2271
01:36:43,679 --> 01:36:48,880
overall canopy you know that could be

2272
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:52,320
significant loss in canopy that will

2273
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:55,360
take decades and generations to replace

2274
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:59,119
And so just saying canopy percentage

2275
01:36:55,360 --> 01:37:01,679
alone is probably not in and of itself

2276
01:36:59,119 --> 01:37:03,199
enough of a a a threshold or a trigger.

2277
01:37:01,679 --> 01:37:05,760
We would have to look at something a

2278
01:37:03,199 --> 01:37:08,400
little more refined than that.

2279
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:09,360
» So getting back to your summary, I think

2280
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:12,360
you nailed it.

2281
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:12,360
» Okay.

2282
01:37:14,719 --> 01:37:18,560
I think there was also a discussion of

2283
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:21,440
what reasonable use means, but I think

2284
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:24,080
that might fall into the needing

2285
01:37:21,440 --> 01:37:27,119
flexibility um you know as you go

2286
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:29,600
through those permit processes and you

2287
01:37:27,119 --> 01:37:30,239
you know described several examples of

2288
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:32,080
» And I think

2289
01:37:30,239 --> 01:37:33,600
» Looking at 80 different things. So

2290
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:36,800
» What I would love to hear your thoughts

2291
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:39,040
and comments on is

2292
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:41,440
how much of that do you want to build

2293
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:43,760
into code or how much of that do you

2294
01:37:41,440 --> 01:37:45,920
want I mean again that predictability

2295
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:49,119
versus flexibility. How much of that do

2296
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:51,520
you want to leave in a staff

2297
01:37:49,119 --> 01:37:53,840
discretionary process and how much do

2298
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:57,119
you want it to be you know the shalls

2299
01:37:53,840 --> 01:38:01,119
and the musts. Uh and so there's there's

2300
01:37:57,119 --> 01:38:04,239
room for discussion on that topic.

2301
01:38:01,119 --> 01:38:05,840
If it was just this ordinance that was

2302
01:38:04,239 --> 01:38:09,040
causing

2303
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:10,719
development proponents to have to do 42

2304
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:14,159
iterations of the plan before they get

2305
01:38:10,719 --> 01:38:16,000
started, I would say like max

2306
01:38:14,159 --> 01:38:18,719
predictability up front would would be

2307
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:22,000
would be key. If it is really the case

2308
01:38:18,719 --> 01:38:23,360
that storm water and and open space and

2309
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:25,600
and all these other things are leading

2310
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:28,560
to people needing to do those multiple

2311
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:31,199
configurations, like like Kurt said,

2312
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:33,440
the days of cheap development are gone.

2313
01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:35,360
So therefore, the days of housing that's

2314
01:38:33,440 --> 01:38:38,400
affordable are are gone. And I don't

2315
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:41,119
think it's just this that is is causing

2316
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:43,600
that. But this is a pillar of a package

2317
01:38:41,119 --> 01:38:47,679
of things that is causing housing to be

2318
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:49,760
more expensive. So, can this part of its

2319
01:38:47,679 --> 01:38:52,000
package do its job at making

2320
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:55,040
predictability

2321
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:56,560
come back or or not get significantly

2322
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:58,080
worse?

2323
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:00,080
That's not an easy thing to accomplish

2324
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,600
within the framework of this, but it is

2325
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:03,360
a worthy goal.

2326
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:05,199
» And we do have and I I don't want to be

2327
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:07,600
remiss. I mean, you guys did a lot of

2328
01:39:05,199 --> 01:39:10,320
work on the Bellingham plan. And there

2329
01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:12,239
are uh and thanks to Elizabeth, she

2330
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:14,159
reminded us there's a few policies that

2331
01:39:12,239 --> 01:39:17,119
are in there that are already starting

2332
01:39:14,159 --> 01:39:19,760
to inform this. You had one in uh the

2333
01:39:17,119 --> 01:39:21,920
environmental chapter uh you know that

2334
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:24,080
talks about integrating city tree canopy

2335
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:26,239
and green infrastructure

2336
01:39:24,080 --> 01:39:27,760
um you know considering different

2337
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:29,280
mechanisms that support active

2338
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:31,520
management and increasing tree

2339
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:33,360
preservation. So there's some direction

2340
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:35,199
in there. There's another one in the

2341
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:37,440
community design chapter, you know, and

2342
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:39,760
so there's there is some policy

2343
01:39:37,440 --> 01:39:41,679
direction in there, but I think when we

2344
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:43,679
talk about it's the trigger points that

2345
01:39:41,679 --> 01:39:46,719
we want to try to figure out if we can

2346
01:39:43,679 --> 01:39:48,320
define how do how do we go back and Rose

2347
01:39:46,719 --> 01:39:51,199
mentioned, you know, I mean, we could

2348
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:52,800
set it just based on a year, you know, a

2349
01:39:51,199 --> 01:39:54,960
certain number of years. Hey, in five

2350
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:57,920
years, we'll come back and re-evaluate

2351
01:39:54,960 --> 01:40:00,080
this. I I think her comment about you

2352
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:02,639
know um

2353
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:05,360
you know forgetting it and and it I mean

2354
01:40:02,639 --> 01:40:07,920
we parking is a perfect example of that

2355
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:11,360
what 55 years before it changed you know

2356
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:14,719
I mean so uh yeah we would we would like

2357
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:16,719
to set some of those um if that's the

2358
01:40:14,719 --> 01:40:19,360
interest and desire I know that one of

2359
01:40:16,719 --> 01:40:21,520
the things that's going to be I don't

2360
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:24,080
want to set it so short like within a

2361
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:25,280
year or two because there's a lot of

2362
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:27,040
work you heard a little a little bit.

2363
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:30,880
City made the comment earlier tonight

2364
01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:32,880
about the a number of different uh

2365
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:34,639
residential resoning efforts. We're

2366
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:36,800
restructuring and rewriting, you know,

2367
01:40:34,639 --> 01:40:38,960
the whole code. There's a there's a a

2368
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:41,600
mountain of work that's happening in the

2369
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:43,920
next couple years around a variety of

2370
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:47,199
things. I would love to be able to set

2371
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:50,239
it out like five years as an example to

2372
01:40:47,199 --> 01:40:53,679
say let's get that body of work and then

2373
01:40:50,239 --> 01:40:55,840
re-evaluate how this uh intertwines with

2374
01:40:53,679 --> 01:40:58,960
that. So, we now have a clear

2375
01:40:55,840 --> 01:41:01,119
distinction because if we're chasing it

2376
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:03,760
every couple years, we're we're gonna

2377
01:41:01,119 --> 01:41:05,679
just I'm concerned that we're we're not

2378
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:07,119
going to have that that full body of

2379
01:41:05,679 --> 01:41:09,199
work and be able to do it. So, I would

2380
01:41:07,119 --> 01:41:12,159
love to set it out a little bit. That

2381
01:41:09,199 --> 01:41:13,840
would give us as an example, we know

2382
01:41:12,159 --> 01:41:15,600
we're going to be back in front of you.

2383
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:18,719
If you think about just the Bellingham

2384
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:22,000
plan, the comp plan cycle, that took us

2385
01:41:18,719 --> 01:41:23,840
as a city two two and a half years to go

2386
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:26,960
through. So we basically have about an

2387
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:28,880
eight-year window to do a bunch of the

2388
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:32,159
implementation before we start that

2389
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:35,119
process in earnest again. And so you

2390
01:41:32,159 --> 01:41:37,679
know getting kind of within that year

2391
01:41:35,119 --> 01:41:40,239
kind of five to eight is probably that

2392
01:41:37,679 --> 01:41:42,480
that sweet spot where we can okay we've

2393
01:41:40,239 --> 01:41:44,400
done all the implementation we can use

2394
01:41:42,480 --> 01:41:48,320
the development code to do some of these

2395
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:50,320
things. I would not want to do uh

2396
01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:54,800
interim ordinances for the next five

2397
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:56,239
years, but um but if that's the trigger

2398
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,600
point where we say, "Hey, when we get to

2399
01:41:56,239 --> 01:41:59,679
the point where we're adopting this,

2400
01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:01,679
we'll re-evaluate it within a fiveyear

2401
01:41:59,679 --> 01:42:03,440
period." I mean, that that could be

2402
01:42:01,679 --> 01:42:05,119
something we could do or we can again,

2403
01:42:03,440 --> 01:42:06,960
we'll come up with we'll work through

2404
01:42:05,119 --> 01:42:08,960
and see if we can come up with different

2405
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:11,280
suggestions and ideas. And I don't know

2406
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:13,280
if this how hard this is or not, but

2407
01:42:11,280 --> 01:42:15,920
it's good to hear the examples of

2408
01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:17,440
projects that have come up already and

2409
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:19,440
just kind of getting an idea of like

2410
01:42:17,440 --> 01:42:22,320
this is the scenario that happened and

2411
01:42:19,440 --> 01:42:24,320
this is how we uh treated that those

2412
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:26,639
conditions because I think that's the

2413
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:28,080
thing where I feel like the least um

2414
01:42:26,639 --> 01:42:30,080
knowledgeable is just like yeah, we've

2415
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:32,320
been doing this for a little bit. So we

2416
01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:35,199
do see circumstances and we have seen

2417
01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:37,280
what works and what might not work um to

2418
01:42:35,199 --> 01:42:41,360
kind of understand it better and and

2419
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:42,719
maybe form the the long-term rules for

2420
01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:45,520
it.

2421
01:42:42,719 --> 01:42:48,239
» Yeah. And we do that pretty regularly.

2422
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:50,719
Kurt uh and the development review team

2423
01:42:48,239 --> 01:42:53,199
have weekly meetings and I would say

2424
01:42:50,719 --> 01:42:55,199
probably for the first eight to 10

2425
01:42:53,199 --> 01:42:57,280
months we were talking almost

2426
01:42:55,199 --> 01:42:59,440
exclusively

2427
01:42:57,280 --> 01:43:00,880
this interim ordinance and treat I mean

2428
01:42:59,440 --> 01:43:02,639
every week we were talking about

2429
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:05,280
different scenarios different projects

2430
01:43:02,639 --> 01:43:07,920
that were influencing it. So, we've

2431
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:11,679
really been working through a range of

2432
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:13,600
those things trying to advise um current

2433
01:43:11,679 --> 01:43:16,719
property owners, prospective property

2434
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:18,159
owners, uh community members that are

2435
01:43:16,719 --> 01:43:20,400
concerned about the loss of some of

2436
01:43:18,159 --> 01:43:22,880
these resources, uh designers,

2437
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:25,040
developers. So, we we've been living it

2438
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:27,119
the last couple years pretty more

2439
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:30,239
intensely at the front end of that curve

2440
01:43:27,119 --> 01:43:32,719
than than recently. Um, but if it's

2441
01:43:30,239 --> 01:43:34,400
helpful, we can bring different examples

2442
01:43:32,719 --> 01:43:36,400
and show you different scenarios. Part

2443
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:38,880
of the reasonist memo, and I'm happy to

2444
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:42,480
put it up on the screen and uh and show

2445
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:44,639
you, but um it was based on kind of

2446
01:43:42,480 --> 01:43:46,400
those range of different scenarios that

2447
01:43:44,639 --> 01:43:50,560
we kind of were trying to think through.

2448
01:43:46,400 --> 01:43:53,920
And anytime you get into writing code,

2449
01:43:50,560 --> 01:43:56,400
you I would say that you write it often

2450
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:58,960
times with a particular issue that

2451
01:43:56,400 --> 01:44:00,960
you're trying to solve or or address and

2452
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:03,280
then we go through that process of

2453
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:05,280
trying to think through how broadly can

2454
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:07,199
you cast it so it's not just based on

2455
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:08,800
one thing.

2456
01:44:07,199 --> 01:44:10,800
But you can never consider every

2457
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:13,760
scenario. So you try to build in again

2458
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:15,760
some degree of flexibility or

2459
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:17,840
administrative review to to deal with

2460
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:20,320
the oneoffs. And so the goal is you know

2461
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:23,040
how do we how do we structure it to meet

2462
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:25,440
80% of the topics that come up and have

2463
01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:27,760
enough flexibility to deal with the you

2464
01:44:25,440 --> 01:44:29,520
know the other 20%.

2465
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:30,880
And there may be some things we just

2466
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:32,080
can't you know.

2467
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:34,400
» Yeah. Yeah. And just to add on to that,

2468
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:36,400
I think vegetation and trees, I mean,

2469
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:38,400
just go out and look around, right? No

2470
01:44:36,400 --> 01:44:41,440
site is exactly the same. And so, trying

2471
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:43,360
to create predictability on a on a

2472
01:44:41,440 --> 01:44:46,239
canvas that is completely different

2473
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:46,800
everywhere you go is very challenging.

2474
01:44:46,239 --> 01:44:49,760
Um, I

2475
01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:51,679
» Agree. the o the only other way um I was

2476
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:54,320
just sitting here kind of spinning

2477
01:44:51,679 --> 01:44:57,360
trying to think about other ways and I

2478
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:59,679
think if if you wanted to be more

2479
01:44:57,360 --> 01:45:02,159
certain and give that predictability

2480
01:44:59,679 --> 01:45:06,159
then you may need to look at a code

2481
01:45:02,159 --> 01:45:09,280
that's more um quantitative. So if a

2482
01:45:06,159 --> 01:45:11,840
property has five or more trees on it,

2483
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:14,880
then this plays into it, you know. So

2484
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:18,239
you you you have to have some some

2485
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:21,360
standard number um it it's just like a

2486
01:45:18,239 --> 01:45:22,960
setback. A setback is five feet or is 10

2487
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:27,280
feet, right? You need that definitive

2488
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:31,040
number. And how you would apply that on

2489
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:34,480
a vegetation or a tree scenario

2490
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:36,560
is one. Is it one? Is it two? Is it 22?

2491
01:45:34,480 --> 01:45:41,119
like that that's very hard to come up

2492
01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:43,040
with that number. But the only to to

2493
01:45:41,119 --> 01:45:44,960
ensure our flexibility and

2494
01:45:43,040 --> 01:45:49,199
predictability I think this code does

2495
01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:51,360
that. Um and I saying that based on how

2496
01:45:49,199 --> 01:45:55,360
we have been working through this for

2497
01:45:51,360 --> 01:45:57,840
the last few years. Um getting any more

2498
01:45:55,360 --> 01:46:02,840
predictable is going to be hard I think

2499
01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:02,840
without maybe throwing in some numbers.

2500
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:10,800
Um I guess related to that and to the um

2501
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:13,520
query for what kinds of metrics or

2502
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:15,040
information would want to be seen in

2503
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:17,199
some reporting in the next few years.

2504
01:46:15,040 --> 01:46:19,920
I'd be curious just off the top of my

2505
01:46:17,199 --> 01:46:24,560
head um you know the number of landmark

2506
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:26,400
trees that are cut down um which I'm

2507
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:30,400
sure you have available. I just don't

2508
01:46:26,400 --> 01:46:33,119
know it. um whether how many people just

2509
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:35,679
take the fine like is that 2400

2510
01:46:33,119 --> 01:46:37,679
violation are people just taking that

2511
01:46:35,679 --> 01:46:40,239
you know where does that sit or is that

2512
01:46:37,679 --> 01:46:42,639
high enough is that too low I'd like to

2513
01:46:40,239 --> 01:46:45,840
know which is probably very difficult

2514
01:46:42,639 --> 01:46:49,280
data to get but um you know when a

2515
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:51,440
landmark tree is cut to enable um

2516
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:55,360
development you know what kind of costs

2517
01:46:51,440 --> 01:46:57,280
were saved 10,000 50,000 100,000 by

2518
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:59,600
being able to remove that and do one

2519
01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:02,800
site plan versus another, you know, like

2520
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:04,880
how how much are we saving by making

2521
01:47:02,800 --> 01:47:09,360
those trade-offs? And I'd also like to

2522
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:11,119
know the um development type of

2523
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:13,280
properties going in like was it

2524
01:47:11,119 --> 01:47:17,119
affordable housing? Was it super

2525
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:19,920
unaffordable housing? Um you know what,

2526
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:21,840
you know, price per unit kind of

2527
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:26,080
information. What are we when we're

2528
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:29,360
looking at balancing the priorities of

2529
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:30,960
ecology and well-being and canopy cover

2530
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:33,600
and affordable housing? Is it really

2531
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:36,080
affordable housing being developed when

2532
01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:38,880
these go down? Um, so those are some

2533
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:41,360
things in the last two minutes I'd be

2534
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:43,440
curious about, but I'm sure more some of

2535
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:45,520
that exists and some of that would never

2536
01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:49,000
be practical for, you know, a number of

2537
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:49,000
reasons. But

2538
01:47:49,119 --> 01:47:54,159
» I will just um I can't give you specific

2539
01:47:51,679 --> 01:47:57,440
numbers, but I can tell you that the

2540
01:47:54,159 --> 01:48:00,639
majority of applications that we've

2541
01:47:57,440 --> 01:48:03,920
processed for removal have been because

2542
01:48:00,639 --> 01:48:06,880
of diseased or hazard. Um we do

2543
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:09,119
definitely see them in development. Um

2544
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:11,199
but the majority of those that have been

2545
01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:12,800
removed have been because they're not

2546
01:48:11,199 --> 01:48:14,719
healthy.

2547
01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:17,840
And as far as affordability is

2548
01:48:14,719 --> 01:48:23,000
concerned, um I just want to make sure I

2549
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:23,000
get a little finer point on that because

2550
01:48:23,440 --> 01:48:26,719
very So when we talk about

2551
01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:28,560
affordability, I think it's really

2552
01:48:26,719 --> 01:48:30,560
important to make a distinction between

2553
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:34,239
capital A affordable, which is what I'm

2554
01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:37,600
referring to as subsidized um or

2555
01:48:34,239 --> 01:48:40,159
naturally occurring affordable. And uh

2556
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:42,159
if if part of your definition is the

2557
01:48:40,159 --> 01:48:44,400
latter where it's naturally occurring,

2558
01:48:42,159 --> 01:48:48,960
new construction is always going to come

2559
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:52,000
in higher. But the reality is is that

2560
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:54,000
the more the more supply we can create

2561
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:55,520
if we're talking about ADUs and other

2562
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:58,159
things like that, that's a more

2563
01:48:55,520 --> 01:49:00,639
attainable price point to a lot more

2564
01:48:58,159 --> 01:49:04,800
people. And so I would just are we

2565
01:49:00,639 --> 01:49:07,920
talking specifically like below 80% AMI

2566
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:09,760
kind of affordable subsidized or

2567
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:12,000
naturally occurring or maybe a little

2568
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:13,199
bit of both.

2569
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:15,440
» Probably a little bit of both. I'd

2570
01:49:13,199 --> 01:49:19,199
probably defer to Rose on that and need

2571
01:49:15,440 --> 01:49:22,400
a second to to think on it more. But um

2572
01:49:19,199 --> 01:49:25,040
I think naturally it should be cheaper

2573
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:27,840
to do infill and build where that's

2574
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:29,679
already disrupted and for to the extent

2575
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:32,480
possible that we have incentives to do

2576
01:49:29,679 --> 01:49:36,639
that that should be aligned in that way.

2577
01:49:32,480 --> 01:49:37,920
And then as far as affordability, I

2578
01:49:36,639 --> 01:49:40,080
mean, I think it has to be somewhere

2579
01:49:37,920 --> 01:49:42,239
below market rate because obviously it's

2580
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:43,199
market rate that's being developed at

2581
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:45,440
that moment. But

2582
01:49:43,199 --> 01:49:48,400
» Well, what we're seeing just anecdotally

2583
01:49:45,440 --> 01:49:52,080
is when somebody's coming in and

2584
01:49:48,400 --> 01:49:56,400
building an ADU or two ADUs on a lot,

2585
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:58,320
they are um saving because they're not

2586
01:49:56,400 --> 01:50:02,560
having to do the frontage improvements

2587
01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:04,320
the same way. they're paying 50% of the

2588
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:07,360
uh impact fees and other things like

2589
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:09,760
that. So, there's there's some um

2590
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:12,639
measures that are incentivizing those

2591
01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:15,040
already. Um but again, new construction,

2592
01:50:12,639 --> 01:50:17,199
what we're seeing in the market, things

2593
01:50:15,040 --> 01:50:18,800
are still coming in, just just

2594
01:50:17,199 --> 01:50:21,199
construction in general, and there's

2595
01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:24,400
others on the commission that can speak

2596
01:50:21,199 --> 01:50:26,480
um more to this, but um you're still

2597
01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:28,800
seeing it come at a fairly high price

2598
01:50:26,480 --> 01:50:32,400
point for that.

2599
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:34,880
As that asset starts to depreciate, then

2600
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:37,679
then you're starting to see those rent

2601
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:40,080
structures change a little bit. Um, but

2602
01:50:37,679 --> 01:50:41,840
when we look at multifamily,

2603
01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:44,480
when we look at some of the stuff that's

2604
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:48,880
kind of out there, we also see a higher

2605
01:50:44,480 --> 01:50:50,800
degree of affordability when it's um

2606
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:52,320
somebody who has ownership and then

2607
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:54,639
they're renting out the unit on their

2608
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:56,480
lot. They're not necessarily

2609
01:50:54,639 --> 01:50:58,000
chasing the market in terms of what they

2610
01:50:56,480 --> 01:51:00,000
can get. So, there's a natural

2611
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:03,360
affordability that kind of gets built

2612
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:06,480
into that. So, all of it helps. Um, but

2613
01:51:03,360 --> 01:51:07,920
if you want specific numbers on, excuse

2614
01:51:06,480 --> 01:51:09,280
me, on rent structure and stuff like

2615
01:51:07,920 --> 01:51:12,280
that, that would take a little more

2616
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:12,280
effort.

2617
01:51:14,320 --> 01:51:19,119
» So, do we need a formal motion for any

2618
01:51:16,239 --> 01:51:20,639
of this uh to move forward or are we

2619
01:51:19,119 --> 01:51:23,520
just

2620
01:51:20,639 --> 01:51:25,920
Yes, that would be helpful. Um, just in

2621
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:28,719
terms of

2622
01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:30,400
u not moving it forward and directing

2623
01:51:28,719 --> 01:51:31,600
staff to address the things that I

2624
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:33,119
brought up. And if you need me to kind

2625
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:35,119
of walk through that again, I'm happy to

2626
01:51:33,119 --> 01:51:36,239
do that, but I would be helpful in the

2627
01:51:35,119 --> 01:51:38,960
motion.

2628
01:51:36,239 --> 01:51:40,000
» And process-wise, we had a public

2629
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:41,520
hearing tonight. We heard some

2630
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:43,840
testimony.

2631
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:46,719
Do we want we we have the option of

2632
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:49,280
continuing either written or

2633
01:51:46,719 --> 01:51:51,440
in person testimony? If there's going to

2634
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:53,199
be significant revisions, do we want an

2635
01:51:51,440 --> 01:51:55,599
opportunity to get that feedback and

2636
01:51:53,199 --> 01:51:57,440
leave the record open for now?

2637
01:51:55,599 --> 01:52:00,239
» You certainly can. And the also the

2638
01:51:57,440 --> 01:52:02,480
expectation that I would have is that we

2639
01:52:00,239 --> 01:52:05,280
would from this point forward we would

2640
01:52:02,480 --> 01:52:07,440
then go back to city council to ask for

2641
01:52:05,280 --> 01:52:10,400
an extension of the interim ordinance

2642
01:52:07,440 --> 01:52:12,800
and then when we refine this we would be

2643
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:15,520
do basically renoticing a public hearing

2644
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:17,920
because we're not doing it to date

2645
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:18,800
certain. Um, so we would probably just

2646
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:20,480
go through a

2647
01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:21,840
» So we're clo we could close out this

2648
01:52:20,480 --> 01:52:23,520
process and it's a new new

2649
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:25,760
» Or you could leave the written open if

2650
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:27,679
that's if that's the preference, but our

2651
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:29,679
practice has been we we'll take those

2652
01:52:27,679 --> 01:52:31,599
written comments

2653
01:52:29,679 --> 01:52:32,800
at any time.

2654
01:52:31,599 --> 01:52:34,239
» So what kind of motion are you looking

2655
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:37,679
for then?

2656
01:52:34,239 --> 01:52:39,760
» Um to to not move this ordinance forward

2657
01:52:37,679 --> 01:52:42,560
to city council and to go work on the

2658
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:45,440
refinements that we discussed earlier.

2659
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:47,520
And so that way I can and in full full

2660
01:52:45,440 --> 01:52:49,840
disclosure I can go back to city council

2661
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:51,679
and say we received a recommendation

2662
01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:53,040
from the planning commission to refine

2663
01:52:51,679 --> 01:52:55,440
these. We're going to need additional

2664
01:52:53,040 --> 01:52:57,679
time to do that and that's why we're

2665
01:52:55,440 --> 01:53:00,679
asking for the extension of the current

2666
01:52:57,679 --> 01:53:00,679
interim.

2667
01:53:01,599 --> 01:53:05,920
Did anyone in here have anything on the

2668
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:08,719
commission to add to that list or we all

2669
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:10,719
feel good about where we're at?

2670
01:53:08,719 --> 01:53:12,560
Okay.

2671
01:53:10,719 --> 01:53:15,560
Um, anyone in here want to make a

2672
01:53:12,560 --> 01:53:15,560
motion?

2673
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:20,288
» Sure. I don't care.

2674
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:21,920
» You're getting good at it, Jerry.

2675
01:53:20,288 --> 01:53:24,880
[laughter]

2676
01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:27,599
» Uh, move to not move forward and to

2677
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:31,520
allow you extra time and extension uh to

2678
01:53:27,599 --> 01:53:33,920
work on what we discussed here tonight.

2679
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,639
That too broad. Good.

2680
01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:35,040
» Sounds good.

2681
01:53:34,639 --> 01:53:37,440
» All right. [snorts]

2682
01:53:35,040 --> 01:53:38,960
» You have a second.

2683
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:40,400
» Second.

2684
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:40,800
» All right. All in favor?

2685
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:44,000
» I

2686
01:53:40,800 --> 01:53:47,080
» I. Any opposed?

2687
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:47,080
» All right.

2688
01:53:47,199 --> 01:53:51,840
» Thank you very much.

2689
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:53,760
» We are at the director's report.

2690
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:57,599
» I'm trying to think if we have anything.

2691
01:53:53,760 --> 01:54:00,560
» We continue to work on um

2692
01:53:57,599 --> 01:54:04,400
just a wide range of the land

2693
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:07,520
development code updates. um Elizabeth's

2694
01:54:04,400 --> 01:54:09,360
heading up a full team of uh staff that

2695
01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:11,679
are continuing to work on various

2696
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:14,000
different components of that. So as

2697
01:54:11,679 --> 01:54:15,840
those uh get further on and their

2698
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:19,119
maturation process will certainly be

2699
01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:20,880
coming forward to you. Um

2700
01:54:19,119 --> 01:54:22,880
the other thing I'll I don't know if

2701
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:24,800
there's other stuff you want to

2702
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:27,280
» Yeah, coming up at one of your next I

2703
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:29,440
think it's July 9th is the what we're

2704
01:54:27,280 --> 01:54:31,760
shooting for. Is that correct, Heather?

2705
01:54:29,440 --> 01:54:36,560
» Yeah. um at July 9th, we're looking

2706
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:41,040
forward to um start the discussion of

2707
01:54:36,560 --> 01:54:44,080
we're calling it an a lowincome housing

2708
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:46,560
incentive. Um and it's really geared

2709
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:49,199
towards the as Blake mentioned the big A

2710
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:53,040
affordable um providers um doing those

2711
01:54:49,199 --> 01:54:55,440
largecale affordable housing um projects

2712
01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:57,520
and looking at reducing and kind of

2713
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:59,760
streamlining the process. So reducing

2714
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:01,760
any sort of regulatory barriers and

2715
01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:05,440
streamlining kind of the review process.

2716
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:07,679
So allowing um more opportunity for that

2717
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:10,800
true affordable housing, those projects

2718
01:55:07,679 --> 01:55:13,360
to move forward quicker and without um

2719
01:55:10,800 --> 01:55:14,719
as much regulatory oversight as before.

2720
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:18,159
So

2721
01:55:14,719 --> 01:55:21,639
» Rose, you better be here for that one.

2722
01:55:18,159 --> 01:55:21,639
» I hope so.

2723
01:55:22,239 --> 01:55:25,520
» Okay. Well, I guess if we don't have

2724
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:27,040
anything else, uh we can adjourn. I'll

2725
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:30,520
see you all next time.

2726
01:55:27,040 --> 01:55:30,520
» Thank you very much.