Name: Cary Council Meeting – July 23, 2026
Uploaded: 2026-07-24T00:00:00Z
Duration: 5 h 21 min 7 s
Description: That tax way that they can allows us to invest in affordable housing, just as a side note, we invested in the senior affordable housing called Rose Park Manor, where there are 81 units.

[1:30] Twenty-third meeting of the Kerry Town Council at this time, I'll recognize Mayor Pro Tembush for our ceremonial opening.

[1:38] Thank you, Mayor. Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.

[1:43] I pledge of allegiance.

[1:59] We're at item three on the agenda. We have received a request from staff to add the item amendment to the meeting schedule to tonight's consent agenda.

[2:11] Is there a motion to adopt the agenda as amended?

[2:15] Second, second, second, second, second discussion, I'll unfavorably say aye.

[2:19] Aye.

[2:20] Aye.

[2:20] The opposed motion carries unanimously, which takes us to recognitions, reports and presentations.

[2:27] Our first presentation is PRCR Month Proclamation, and I'll recognize Council Member

[2:33] Banzel to present the Proclamation and invite her honoured guest to join her.

[2:49] Thank you, Sarah, for joining today.

[2:51] You're the chair of the PRCR Board, and doing an incredible job in keeping guys

[2:56] on track. Thank you so much for that. So today I will recognize July 236 as Parks and Recreation

[3:03] Month in Care, you're not Carolina. Whereas, carey parks, recreation and cultural resources

[3:10] enriches the lives of residents by providing high-quality parks, programs, facilities, cultural experiences

[3:18] and recreational opportunities that foster health, wellness, connection and belonging.

[3:23] And we do join me.

[3:29] Whereas carries nationally recognized parks and recreation systems, serves people of all

[3:37] ages, abilities, and interests, creating welcoming spaces where residents and visitors can

[3:46] play, learn, gather, celebrate and build community and various parks, trails, greenways,

[3:58] natural areas, arts and recreation programs, contribute to the environmental, social and economic

[4:08] vitality of carry, while supporting healthy lifestyles and enhancing quality of life.

[4:18] And whereas the town of carry is committed to thoughtfully planning for the future by expanding

[4:26] access to parts and recreation, promoting environmental stewardship and embracing innovation

[4:34] And ensuring these resources continue to meet the evolving need of our growing community.

[4:44] And whereas, care recognizes the dedicated professionals, volunteers, partners, and community members,

[4:54] whose contributions help make careless parks, and recreation system, one of the nation's finest

[5:01] and strengthen our community every day.

[5:06] Now, therefore, I consult members Rika Bansal on behalf of the Carey Mayor and Council,

[5:13] do hereby proclaim July 26th as Park and Recreation Month in Carey, and I encourage all

[5:21] residents to discover new experiences, connect with nature and one another.

[5:26] Support our parks and programs and celebrate the many ways our parks, recreation and cultural resources help our community thrive.

[5:36] Brooklyn, there is 23rd day of July, 2026.

[5:49] Thank you Councilwoman Banzel and thank you Mayor and other Council members.

[5:54] We certainly appreciate all of the resources, the time, the effort that Kerry puts into our parks, recreation, and cultural resources division.

[6:04] The town of Carrey, the citizens that live throughout the town of Carrey, thoroughly enjoy all kinds of activities in our town.

[6:15] Whether it be our seniors at a hot dog, hoodown, over at Bond Park, or whether it be toddlers taking a parent and child art class from Miss Lisa at the Carrey Arts Center, which I did many times.

[6:30] or if it might be folks taking dance classes or attending a concert or going to an event that

[6:39] might be happening such as the Chinese Lantern Festival at Kokebuth.

[6:45] The town of Carrie is rich in experiences for our citizens and it's because of this that

[6:54] Carrie is so nationally recognized as a wonderful place to live and there's no other place

[7:00] I would rather raise my family and have my parents join me now after they've retired and moved here.

[7:08] This is the place to live. I absolutely love it.

[7:13] And I thank you for investing in the power of play.

[7:18] You see play sort of goes as a theme through everything that we do in parks recreation and cultural resources.

[7:27] It's healing for our community, so I do want to encourage folks to get out to our parks,

[7:35] our greenways, our paths, our trails, take a class, try something new, go to a concert, come

[7:42] to the 50th Annual Lazy Days Festival taking place just one month from now on August 22nd

[7:50] 23rd. And again, thank you for making carry what it is by having such a robust parks recreation

[7:59] and cultural resources division. Thank you.

[8:02] Thank you.

[8:08] Our second presentation is the sister city's

[8:12] proclamation and I'll recognize Council Member Craig to present this proclamation and invite

[8:16] her honoured guests to join her at the podium.

[8:27] What did you say?

[8:29] So yes, I am council member Michelle Craig and I am honored to be the council liaison for

[8:35] Kerry sister cities and tonight we have a proclamation recognizing sister cities international

[8:42] day.

[8:43] Whereas in 2026 sister cities international is celebrating 70 years of global citizen and civic

[8:50] diplomatic action and helping support a future where the world cities, communities and

[8:55] citizens can come together on coming ground, whereas sister city's international

[9:00] days of fitting occasion to commemorate the significant impact that the

[9:05] organization has made in building bridges across nations cities and communities

[9:10] across the globe in order to create and sustain world peace. Whereas sister city's

[9:16] international was founded as president, President John initiative by President

[9:20] Dwight Diaz and Howard on September 11, 1956 at the White House Conference on Citizen Diplomacy

[9:27] to create more community-led global relationships so that people of different cultures

[9:32] could appreciate their differences and build partnerships that would lessen the chance

[9:37] of new national conflicts. Whereas Sister City's International Currently has 400 U.S. members

[9:45] cities, counties and states that include relationships with more than 1800 communities

[9:50] in 140 countries, spanning six continents.

[9:55] Whereas Carrie North Carolina is proud to be a driving part of the global network with

[10:00] sister city partnerships spanning the globe and the following cities and countries like

[10:07] to K France, Markham, Canada, Ben Dornham, Turkey,

[10:11] Chintu, Taiwan, and County, New Zealand.

[10:14] Whereas countless city, county, and state governments

[10:17] and their leaders have been involved

[10:18] in global relationships due to sister city's

[10:21] international and whereas these relationships include

[10:25] educational, economic, cultural, municipal,

[10:29] and humanitarian assistance exchange programs

[10:31] that are mutually beneficial to each community.

[10:35] Whereas, Sister City's International Day is a call to action for Americans and citizens of

[10:41] the world to come together to celebrate the importance of communities, continued commitment

[10:45] to people, people to people exchanges, and show how powerful humanity can be when we

[10:51] unite to promote peace, progress, and prosperity for a better world.

[10:56] Now therefore I counsel member Michelle Craig on behalf of the Carrie Mayer and Council

[11:02] to your hereby recognize July 23rd,

[11:05] 2026 at Sister City's International Day in Carey

[11:09] and encourage all residents to celebrate this day

[11:12] as a milestone for oral peace, proclaim this 23rd day

[11:16] of July, 2026,

[11:20] and

[11:30] we have a Kenna King and we have

[11:34] me hall-inch that are coming to the extent they are hard for the

[11:39] proclamations. We're all awarded by our

[11:42] Madam Speaker,

[11:53] I'm the Vice President of Carey Sister Cities.

[11:57] Our President Pamela Huff is currently in DC at the 7th Anniversary event where she will

[12:01] be joining the National Board of Directors.

[12:03] On behalf of the organization, thank you to the town and the mayor for this promotion

[12:07] for your continued support.

[12:11] For those who don't know, Carrie Sister Cities is the local chapter of Sister Cities International

[12:16] We organize cultural events and exchanges based around our sister cities in France, Canada, Turkey, Taiwan, and Ireland.

[12:24] In a time of increased political attention in xenophobia, creating international connections and celebrating our shared humanity is more important than ever.

[12:31] These programs create meaningful impact on our community,

[12:34] from creating educational opportunities for our youth to generating tourism and economic opportunities for our businesses.

[12:40] I encourage everyone to come out to one of our events.

[12:43] Grilled out a barbecue picnic and learn about French local government or come to our stage at

[12:47] lazy days to watch the Taiwanese cooking demonstration.

[12:50] It's amazing that things you learn in people you meet when you get involved.

[12:53] I look forward to our continuing work with the town and thank you again for your support.

[13:05] Our third recognition is for the attendees of the Carey Public Service Academy who are joining us this evening.

[13:12] The Carey Public Service Academy was created to help high school students learn how local government works while inspiring them

[13:20] to explore careers in public service and community leadership.

[13:25] At the opportunity today to speak with this outstanding group and I was genuinely impressed

[13:31] by their thoughtful questions they ask and their enthusiasm for serving their community.

[13:38] Also know that many of our council members look forward to celebrating with them at their

[13:43] graduation on Friday.

[13:45] The students represent a bright future for Kerry and I'm excited to see the impact they will have on our community in the years ahead.

[13:56] We are honored to have them with us tonight, and I would ask that the students of the Kerry Public Service Academy please stand and be recognized.

[14:18] Thank you.

[14:19] We now move to the fourth item, which is the interim town managers update and I'll recognize Mr. Overton.

[14:27] Thank you, Mayor. I want to take a moment to update our residents on the two work sessions we've had this prior to tonight's regular meeting.

[14:34] As a reminder, work sessions are live streamed and recorded and available in the town's YouTube channel as well as carry TV 11 for those of you that do not have the cable TV.

[14:43] Early, earlier tonight, staff provided an update on several utility items, including work

[14:49] on a new utility billing system, longstanding year-round water conservation efforts in

[14:54] our wastewater study with Holly Springs.

[14:56] We also talked about transit in particular, the bus rapid.

[15:00] Crancett system, as well as our multimodal center project in the downtown circulator route.

[15:06] Tuesday night, we received our monthly revenue report, and spent the rest of the meeting pretty much focused on council parties, council initiated items,

[15:14] and process options for addressing some of the recommendations in the Womble Bond Dickinson report, which is next on tonight's agenda.

[15:21] So I'll stop talking here and turn it back over to you, Mayor.

[15:24] Thank you, Mr. Overton. And a great segue to our fifth and final item is the presentation

[15:30] of the Kerry Town Council Special Commission report by Wammel Bonn, Dickinson, and First

[15:37] I'd like to recognize our town attorney, Lisa Glover, to introduce the item.

[15:41] Thank you, Mayor. It's my pleasure to introduce John Cook of Wammel Bonn Dickinson. John

[15:46] has worked with many North Carolina local governments and their governing boards throughout

[15:51] his career and has a deep understanding of local government operations.

[15:56] Womble Bond Dickinson has completed its comprehensive review and investigation of the town

[16:00] initiated after the resignation of the former town manager and John is here to present

[16:05] the findings. This review was commissioned by Council to develop a fuller understanding of

[16:10] what occurred and identify the changes needed to strengthen the organization.

[16:14] Its recommendations provide Council and staff with a clear framework for improving accountability,

[16:19] oversight and workplace governance. And with that, I'll turn it over to John.

[16:25] Thank you, Lisa. Good evening. Mayor, and members of the Council. I'm John Cook.

[16:32] And I'm here on behalf of Wumblebond Dickinson. Thank you for the opportunity first

[16:37] to be able to share the key aspects of our report that you commissioned us to do to look into

[16:44] three aspects of town operations. I have about 10 slides, give you a preview of that, and the

[16:54] slides will discuss fourth principle matters. What we were asked to examine, how we

[17:01] approach the work, what we found, and most importantly, perhaps, what we recommend the town council

[17:09] to consider going forward. If you have questions doing the presentation, feel free to interrupt

[17:15] me, you don't need to hold your questions to the end.

[17:24] This slide is an overview of our

[17:25] assignment and I'm going to be pretty quick going through it. You ask us to do an independent

[17:33] evaluation and report and you did not know that the town staff, influence our conclusions,

[17:41] or our analysis.

[17:44] You challenged us to look at three aspects of talent, government, first procurement

[17:51] card, transactions and reimbursements, which simply are the talent credit card, transactions

[17:58] and reimbursements.

[18:00] The financial reporting of information to the talent council and the workplace environment.

[18:06] You specifically designated an examination period from July 1, 2021, which is the beginning of

[18:15] your fiscal year for that year, to November 20, 2025, when you place the former

[18:22] town manager on administrative leave.

[18:26] You challenged us not only to investigate facts, but to come up with recommendations.

[18:32] The investigation of facts or the easy part, the recommendations of the hard part.

[18:42] This slide again simply tells you what our scope review and investigate to worry approach

[18:49] was.

[18:50] There's four points on here.

[18:53] Number one, we did not duplicate the efforts of any state agencies, but we cooperated

[18:59] with all state agencies that were looking at similar matters.

[19:02] We did what lawyers do. We investigate gather facts. Then we look at rules and then we draw

[19:11] conclusions whether those rules were applied to those particular transactions and events

[19:18] appropriately and is intended. Our information we gather from multiple resources.

[19:25] offices, we are documents, we retain a private accounting firm to help us sort through the

[19:33] P-Cart transactions, which involve 28 different people who were designated to look at those

[19:41] transactions.

[19:43] We gather information from both current employees and former employees, and because there

[19:51] There were no surveys of employees during the examination time or really for the last 10 years.

[20:00] We looked at a post-examination survey of the employees conducted in the first half of

[20:07] 2026 to give us an indication of what the workplace environment might have been during the

[20:14] examination period.

[20:18] So as I said, we did what lawyers do and we came up with some findings and conclusions.

[20:23] and they're pretty straightforward.

[20:27] We looked at many, many P-Card transactions and reimbursements.

[20:33] With the use of this forvice, which is an international accounting firm in there for

[20:39] insect team, they quickly identified those transactions that they felt were most suited

[20:46] for further consideration.

[20:48] And those transactions we've laid it to Mr. Stiegels' transactions.

[20:53] And the reasons they were selected was because they were generally the larger transactions

[20:57] that were handled during the P card transactions.

[21:02] But they also sorted that information into categories that were kind of interesting.

[21:09] First they sorted those categories in which Mr. Stiegels used the P card to charge

[21:17] of expenditures on weekends.

[21:22] Second one that they looked at was those P card transactions,

[21:26] so which he did not provide a receipt.

[21:30] And third, they focused on P card transactions

[21:34] that were where goods were delivered to his home

[21:38] and not to town hall.

[21:41] And those were the things that stood out in their mind

[21:45] things that require further examination.

[21:50] Finding those facts led to simply looking at your policies.

[21:55] Your policies and rules and regulations, which are captured in standard procedures adopted by town managers,

[22:06] Told the staff how to process P-car transactions.

[22:13] Those rules and regulations were adopted by town managers prior to Mr. Stegel.

[22:20] Mr. Stegel did not update those rules and policies.

[22:25] And in looking at those rules and policies, it is our conclusion that they were sufficient

[22:30] to give the staff opportunity to require,

[22:35] for the documentation from Mr. Stegel,

[22:38] to require receipts, to question transactions,

[22:43] to audit those transactions, and to decline to pay them.

[22:49] So we concluded that was an operational failure.

[22:52] By operational failure, we simply mean,

[22:55] there were rules in place that in our judgment

[22:58] were not applied as intended. And so that rule failed. We also turned into the financial

[23:07] reporting aspect of it. There were two things that were pretty clear in the facts. First

[23:13] of all that you had adopted a fund balance policy that that fund balance policy was violated

[23:19] in fiscal year 2023 and Mr. Stegel had misstated that had had not been violated to you.

[23:27] That is an operational failure.

[23:31] Secondly, the town council had already adopted a policy regarding an internment audit and

[23:38] audit function.

[23:40] In town hall and when Mr. Stigel came to town, there was an internal auditor on staff.

[23:48] Mr. Stigel eliminated that position and there really wasn't a position designated to handle

[23:55] this internal audit function that was required by your policy. Your policy also requires that

[24:02] you have the chance to ask this person who is to do these audits to go and look at very

[24:08] aspects of town government and it just wasn't there. So that's another operational failure.

[24:16] And furthermore, just looking at it broadly, Mr. Stegle managed the channels that were reporting

[24:24] financial information to you. And key financial information in our judgment was not reported

[24:30] to you. Obviously that's a judgment call. You can't report everything, but what are the key things?

[24:37] We think budget changes, real property purchases, tuition payments, those things should have

[24:43] been reported to the full council in a timely and complete and accurate fashion. So there were

[24:52] with regards to workplace work, workplace environment.

[24:57] This is the hardest one for us to investigate because there were no surveys during this period of time

[25:04] because workplace environment always is a matter of perspective.

[25:10] And so we gathered the best information we could.

[25:14] We focused, in part, on the survey conducted in 2026, after all of these matters came out.

[25:25] And that in that survey, there are three things that stood out in our mind.

[25:31] First, 44% of current surveys agree or disagree somewhat that decisions are driven by organizational priorities and professional judgment.

[25:41] This kind of echoed in some of the information we had gathered from others.

[25:47] But also in that report, a very large majority of those employees are fulfilled by their job.

[25:55] They enjoy serving the public.

[25:57] They appreciate being good public servants.

[26:00] And they enjoy a good relationship with their direct supervisory.

[26:08] from former employees, some of who left the town happily and some who left the town less than happy.

[26:18] We just gathered a general view that things were not fully transparent.

[26:24] There were people who questioned the fairness of the decisions,

[26:29] and there were some people who believed that the decisions were made based upon Mr. Seagull's favoritism of particular individuals.

[26:36] The information that we found was at Mr. Stigel continued to report to the council that the workplace environment was great.

[26:47] We, as lawyers, don't know how you do that if you don't have a survey.

[26:52] But regardless, it the best that information was either partially true and not completely accurate.

[27:01] So we suggest that the weight of the evidence here is that the town's policies that you adopt,

[27:09] which require fairness in employment, decisions and practices, were not fully adhered to.

[27:18] You require merit-based decisions from employees.

[27:23] That does not seem to have been true always.

[27:27] This was another operational failure.

[27:32] That was the easy part of the report.

[27:35] That's what we do as long as all the time.

[27:37] Go find facts, look at the law and conclude what happened.

[27:41] But you ask us to do more than that.

[27:43] You ask us to look for recommendations.

[27:46] And when you look at recommendations,

[27:49] you have to figure out what's the cause.

[27:54] See, if you don't know the cause,

[27:56] then your recommendations don't fit the problem.

[27:59] And you can look at these individual operational phase and say, well, they're just individual instances.

[28:09] But in all of these operational failures, Mr. Stegel played a role directly indirectly or somehow contributed to these operational failures.

[28:21] That led us to a really interesting question, and that was, well, if it was just Mr.

[28:28] Stegel, and it never could happen again, and Mr. Stegel is no longer a cow.

[28:33] Man, and Jared, well, we don't need to make any recommendations, because it's all been fixed.

[28:40] This led us to looking at something that's different than what lawyers typically do.

[28:47] we looked at the structure of the council manager form of government and in doing that,

[28:55] we concluded that there's a vulnerability in the structure. It's very important to say that every

[29:01] human structure has vulnerabilities because humans are involved. It doesn't say the structures

[29:11] defective or it can't be fixed. It's just a vulnerability and a vulnerability usually arises

[29:19] from a trade-off. A trade-off is where you've made a particular decision to cure a one thing

[29:26] by creating something else and that is exactly what happened with the Council Manager for my

[29:34] government.

[29:38] So turning to the destructural vulnerability slide,

[29:44] what we found, and this is

[29:46] we found by surveying academic literature across the country, is it we found that the Council

[29:55] major form of government originated in the early 20th century.

[30:00] He was designed to cure a particular problem. The particular problem that they were concerned about was that elected officials were using their position to control operations and employment decisions for their personal or political gain.

[30:18] That was the problem. These reformers were trying to solve with the council manager form of government.

[30:26] So what the what the form of government does is it walls you off.

[30:31] It's intentional. It walls you all from day to day operation employment decisions.

[30:38] That actually is a great comfort if you're ever on the other side of the wall as an employee, by the way, and I've been there.

[30:45] But that's the system, and so, well, once you wall all of the elected body, who's going to do it?

[30:52] Who's going to run the place?

[30:55] Well, they had a great confidence in their professional, non-partisan manager.

[31:02] And they invested, they invested, they invested greater authority and discretion in that official to run the government.

[31:11] And at that time they thought running the government was kind of like running a clock, you know?

[31:16] You just put in rules and it all go very smoothly.

[31:22] Over the years people have realized that there are some issues with that.

[31:27] The fact of that, and this is what the literature says, is that there's a partnership between the elected body and the town manager.

[31:37] And as a partnership, it builds this notion that you have trust.

[31:46] You expect the manager to bring everything that would be important for your decision-making

[31:52] and your supervision of the manager because only you have authority to supervise the manager

[31:57] to you as your trusted partner.

[32:01] The problem in the system is that as long as that is the trusted partner manager,

[32:10] functions

[32:11] that way, then you will have the information to help make the right policy decisions and

[32:17] supervise the manager appropriately.

[32:20] But here, many of the questionable matters related to Mr. Stegels' own personal actions,

[32:28] And he had management and control over the reporting channels of information to the talent council.

[32:36] That's the vulnerability.

[32:39] That's what needs be fixed in our judgment.

[32:43] And that which leads us to the recommendations that we are making tonight, or in our report, actually.

[32:53] So,

[32:57] our recommendations, themes or three-fold, one is transparency and oversight, financial

[33:04] accountability, workplace culture and governance.

[33:09] I'm just going to hit on one of these because it really is a principle assumption that

[33:17] we made, presumption we made in selecting recommendations.

[33:23] We think transparency in government is critical for effective and efficient government operations.

[33:31] If there had been increased transparency in these situations, these operational failures would have come to your attention quicker,

[33:41] and you've been able to deal with them in a more efficient way.

[33:45] We think transparency also addresses the two things that need to be strengthened, which we need to strengthen safeguards and we need to strengthen reporting channels of financial information to you.

[34:01] We favor transparency over rules if it's a tie.

[34:10] So with regards to transparency and oversight in the P card reimbursements, the first two recommendations are good examples of transparency.

[34:23] We think if you just publish the P card and reimbursements quarterly for the manager, the direct reports to the manager and the department heads, you will have a self regulating effect.

[34:39] If you know it's going to be public, you will always be reminded that you need to be a good steward.

[34:45] So instead of saying, you can't do something, encourage better behavior.

[34:52] Same thing with publishing travel, lodging meals and education expenditures.

[34:57] These are always going to be hot buttons. People always going to wonder whether that travel was better than it needed to be.

[35:09] the Council. Third, and here to the state, are all

[35:13] charged recommendations. Those are good ideas. Then, finally, because these

[35:19] P-Core transaction rules had not been updated regularly. We think you should

[35:26] require the manager to review and update those regulations every three years.

[35:35] These

[35:36] expenditures occur have changed so much over time that you really do need to update the policy

[35:43] every so often. With regards to the financial accountability, again, we're a big fan of written

[35:52] notice and information provided to the council that is mandated not relying on the good faith

[36:00] of the manager but to require the manager and in all of these matters you could have people

[36:05] signed certifications to this information, right?

[36:08] If you worry that you need more than one person, you know, indicating it's correct.

[36:14] But require written notice to the council before any appropriations out of fund balances are made.

[36:21] Mandate reporting discretionary budget changes at the next regular council meeting.

[36:27] And on that point I'd say think about it.

[36:30] Your most powerful financial tool is your adopted budget.

[36:34] There are very few things staff can change that you would adopt.

[36:39] Think about it.

[36:40] You adopt the law.

[36:40] They can't change it.

[36:41] Only you can change it.

[36:43] But they have to have some flexibility here to amend and change the budget.

[36:49] But you should be on notice of all of them and have a chance to play a role in that.

[36:54] require the answer notice of real estate purchases exceeding $300,000.

[37:00] Again, real estate purchases are hot buttons.

[37:04] Everybody has an opinion what a piece of property is, and they're usually not the same.

[37:12] So real estate purchases also typically involve local residents.

[37:16] So it's good for you to have that information.

[37:19] Re-instate the town auditor position, which you have already done in your budget, study

[37:27] best practices in budget development, review technology for seizures.

[37:34] This brings us to the workplace culture and governance, and we have 21 recommendations,

[37:43] which is quite a handful, but of the ones that we think are most important and probably most

[37:52] difficult and the ones that the State Auditor did not make any recommendations on, we

[37:56] think workplace culture and governance are important.

[38:02] Engage it outside consultant for an annual review

[38:05] for the annual performance review of the manager, and we actually said the town attorney

[38:11] and clerics, so everybody was treated fairly.

[38:14] The current system is that you are using human resources

[38:18] department, but the human, and that saves money.

[38:22] It saves money, but the human resources department

[38:25] is supervised by the manager.

[38:27] It puts them in an impossible position.

[38:30] And I'll also say, if you're a staff person

[38:33] who has information, you think you needed to know,

[38:38] they would be very reluctant to report it to human resources,

[38:41] because they know human resources answers to the manager, excuse me.

[38:47] So, this is one of those examples.

[38:49] We don't like many of them that cause a little extra money.

[38:53] In bed, a code of ethics, in your contracts, and have an annual certification.

[38:58] There is a code of ethics.

[39:00] All professionals need to be reminded.

[39:02] We all are reminded, almost annually, of our ethical responsibility.

[39:09] It's nothing unusual about this, but the reminder is helpful.

[39:14] A men the personnel ordinance to take out the language it says that the manager is the final authority for all activities of an all employees.

[39:24] One could read that to say, regardless of the rules, he gets direct or she gets direct.

[39:30] staff to do what they want to do.

[39:33] That is not part of the Council Manager form of government.

[39:36] That gives a more thoroughly than title.

[39:40] Restore standard personnel best practices.

[39:43] Exit interviews were eliminated by Mr. Stegel.

[39:47] In the all open job postings formal interview processes

[39:51] objective bonus systems.

[39:53] Adopt the whistleblower protection policy.

[39:57] Against retaliation, I believe that might be on your agenda

[40:00] Tonight,

[40:04] require written notice and justification for the change of addition of positions,

[40:11] change of positions, and elimination of positions, and the repurposing of positions.

[40:18] To direct the town manager to review the size of the town manager's office,

[40:24] it became much larger under Mr. Stigel than by historic standards.

[40:30] Mandate regular confidential employees surveys, at least every three years, so you have the data from the whole organization.

[40:39] evaluate the cost of anages and disadvantages of a confidential employee tip line.

[40:46] evaluate the cost of anages and disadvantages of using the organizational

[40:51] obliques program for employees. It is used by some organizations and they like that.

[40:57] It gives employees a safe place to bring up conflicts and try to resolve them.

[41:03] Then develop a menu of employee engagement initiatives

[41:06] share with employees for feedback,

[41:09] strengthen the relationships among employees' departments,

[41:13] and the manager's office.

[41:16] This brings me as I know you're happy to know my last slide.

[41:22] But this may be the most important slide of all.

[41:28] First, in terms of a path forward, affirm the foundation.

[41:31] Here it is financially strong. Despite all of these operational failures that we found,

[41:40] the town remains financially strong. It's rated by all bond agencies with AAA ratings

[41:48] for its general obligations, bonds, its revenue bonds for water and sewer, and it gathers

[41:56] National Recognition all the time I was listening to the Parks and Recreation presentation and that was just another example.

[42:05] The town is financially capable.

[42:09] You have employees who are committed to serving the public. I can tell you how important that is. I'm sure you know.

[42:19] These findings do not define you, but they are an opportunity to make town better.

[42:26] Enhanced the Council manage for a model as we've talked about.

[42:31] Too much authority, discretion, and control, concentrated, and single

[42:35] office without adequate safeguards and reporting channels

[42:41] creates a vulnerability and a problem.

[42:47] Act promptly on low-cost recommendations, we try to find some low-cost recommendations

[42:52] like just publishing information.

[42:55] Even if they don't work, they haven't cost you much, but they are kind of experiment to see

[43:01] whether that's hopeful or not.

[43:04] And then for those things, they're going to take more time developing deliberate plan that

[43:13] requires further study, and then you can just check them off, and I know you're working on

[43:17] that.

[43:18] And then finally, rebuild confidence through transparency.

[43:22] Respond in a measured, lawful, and forward-looker manner.

[43:26] The council's response to these findings and our view

[43:29] is itself an opportunity for the town to demonstrate its commitment

[43:34] to transparency and accountability.

[43:38] And none of you ask me questions.

[43:40] So I guess it was a pretty, it worked pretty well.

[43:44] I am here if you have any further questions.

[43:46] questions for council.

[43:50] I have a question. If you would mind, first of all thank you so much for that,

[43:54] Mr. Kameen. When this all came to light, we were angry, we were upset and it's been helpful

[44:04] as we tried to work through a plan, a short-term plan. It's helped me significantly to know that

[44:11] we would be able to develop a long-term plan based off of the findings that you would bring to us

[44:16] and the office of the state auditor.

[44:20] And, you know, without that sort of short-term long-term approach,

[44:23] I don't know that this would have been a manageable situation.

[44:27] That's just, that's how I see it.

[44:28] So I just want to thank you for for this and how thorough it was.

[44:32] One thing I want to clarify for me and for those that are obviously paying

[44:37] a lot of attention of the 24 million in P card purchases,

[44:42] for example, that were, well, I believe that's the last two years

[44:46] of peacard purchases. That's what that total was. That's been very widely reported and widely

[44:52] discussed. Can you give us an idea of what percentage of those peacard purchases?

[45:00] We're not problematic or on the reverse of that, what percentage seem to be or proof to be questionable or inappropriate.

[45:15] So you put your finger on a really important fact analysis and gathering.

[45:21] So, the four of us, accounting firm, had all 24,000, right, and you use, you use analytics.

[45:33] 24 million.

[45:35] You said thousand.

[45:36] Sorry.

[45:37] You said thousand.

[45:38] It was million, but we knew a German.

[45:39] All right.

[45:43] My apologies.

[45:45] So they had this large number of transactions to look at.

[45:48] They used analytics and their judgment.

[45:50] and going through that many of those transactions are $10, $15, $20 and they're all over the organization.

[46:04] It's not worth once effort to go and try to dig into $10, $15, $20 transactions.

[46:15] Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please.

[46:20] Ladies and gentlemen, please.

[46:24] So, they use the analytics to focus in on the larger transaction.

[46:30] Most of those in many of those were Mr. Stegels, either his personal transactions,

[46:37] transactions, he had other people submit on his behalf or transaction they encouraged.

[46:43] Then they looked at Mr. Steakle's transactions themselves and those numbers are in our report and they focused in on the three things I talked about.

[46:55] You don't have a receipt. You need to have a receipt under the system.

[47:01] You are ordering lots of material and goods on weekends from Amazon.

[47:10] You are having a number of those good deliver to your home instead of to your to town hall.

[47:22] Keep in mind that Mr. Stigol has not shared any information with us. He's not shared any justification.

[47:30] In part because it's been publicly announced that somebody is looking at him,

[47:35] law enforcement is looking at him. So he's out of lawyer. He's not going to share any information,

[47:40] but they, upon the information we have, we would say those are enough red flags for staff

[47:48] with the existing policy to say, no receipt. We're not going to process it. On weekends,

[47:58] explain it to us. On deliver to your house, explain it to us. None of that seemed to have

[48:07] occurred. It seemed to be that they just processed it because it was the town manager's

[48:13] expenditures. Thank you. That's helpful.

[48:18] Ladies and gentlemen, please please, ladies and gentlemen,

[48:23] please. Please. Other questions from Councilman.

[48:31] Also I have a question when mentioned just now

[48:35] about the misuse of P cars. So all the recommendation to change already in your recommendation, right?

[48:43] So all the actions we need to make already in place. Yes. Right. You're in the entire report is online.

[48:53] My entire report, our entire report, it wasn't just me, I want to be clear about that, and our entire report is online.

[49:02] And it has the details that I've tried to skim through in terms of numbers and things.

[49:10] I want to thank you for presenting some of the options for the Council recommendations.

[49:15] I want to kind of ask our interim time manager Russ.

[49:21] I believe we do have a dashboard where we have shared all of this now.

[49:26] So it's going to be tracked for competition on that dashboard with an ETA

[49:30] and different milestones. Is that correct, Russ?

[49:33] Yes, that's correct. Yes.

[49:34] So everyone can follow.

[49:36] It's these recommendations plus the ones from the state auditor,

[49:41] plus the ones that came directly from the council members, is, am I saying it?

[49:47] Jerry Zachard and Mamble Bonne tickets.

[49:49] Okay, great, thanks.

[49:52] Other thoughts and questions?

[49:54] Also, I want to add that,

[49:57] where as council together,

[50:01] we want to see not only the recommendations to be completed,

[50:04] but we can do more.

[50:06] and under the interim term manager, Russ,

[50:08] over to his leadership, I don't see anything related

[50:13] to Russ, and that's giving me confidence.

[50:17] We can change, and we can make a lot of changes

[50:20] in a short term, in long term, and continue to do that.

[50:24] And I feel, thank you, John, and thank you all

[50:26] the efforts of our residents.

[50:28] You have the right to say anything.

[50:30] or we are the one going to change and use your actions and the first action is online moving

[50:38] forward dashboard include everything if anyone has any question in a specific question we can answer

[50:48] thank you thank you other questions comments I have a comment I'd like to share as well

[50:57] If everybody's questions have been answered, and this isn't, this isn't on the substance of what you were saying necessarily, but I do want to share that, you know, we've discussed at great length that there have been significant operational failures.

[51:15] P card transactions, fund balance policy, the internal audit function.

[51:22] I was quite angry about that when I found out that that role had been removed.

[51:26] And I said this the other day, I was doing sort of an impromptu interview,

[51:32] but I understand that you say you have to say something seven times to make sure the message gets across.

[51:38] So I'm just going to continue to repeat myself.

[51:42] We've got a lot of policies in place.

[51:44] They were in a lot of circumstances, violated.

[51:48] And what I see is one of our biggest problems here,

[51:51] is we have a lot of policy, we do need some more.

[51:54] We need some updates.

[51:56] But policy can be ignored.

[51:58] I shared, yes, or Tuesday night,

[52:01] we need to see the behaviors coupled with that policy.

[52:05] And then I'd like the way you put it, Mr. Cook,

[52:07] we need to have that transparency.

[52:10] So what we need is to be able to point somewhere

[52:13] and say anybody that wants to see it can see it,

[52:17] because I think what happened here was these operational failures

[52:19] where they were able to happen and happen for far too long

[52:24] because there was no sunshine.

[52:27] So I really hear you on the transparency part of that.

[52:31] A lot of times when we talk about transparency,

[52:34] we treated as though as long as we as a council

[52:36] or leadership, as long as we, you know, say things into a microphone that we're being transparent.

[52:43] But what I believe is true transparency to get us out of this mess is to really make sure

[52:49] that information is public at every turn, and so I would support any and all ideas that anybody

[52:56] has to be able to do that, and what we really need is teeth, and I think that's not necessarily

[53:06] dangling punishment over anybody's heads. I don't think that modifies behavior, but I do believe

[53:11] the teeth when it comes to enforcing these policies is going to be that level of transparency,

[53:17] and I think it's absolutely critical. And in the spirit of transparency, I'll repeat again,

[53:24] you know, what I said into news cameras on Tuesday, it would be inappropriate for me to sit here

[53:29] and say, you know, I don't have any culpability.

[53:32] It is, you know, I am part of the machine of failure here.

[53:38] And, you know, as an individual, as a council member,

[53:41] that represents everybody here in carry,

[53:44] you know, wasn't good enough to say that that wasn't an appropriate,

[53:48] I'm not gonna participate in that or take that thing

[53:53] or go on that trip.

[53:54] What I needed to do was shout from the rooftops,

[53:58] stop my feet and make up a really big deal. And I failed to do that. I can tell you going forward,

[54:04] you definitely have a council full of people here that are going to stop their feet and

[54:08] shout from the rooftops.

[54:15] And it's also my job to sit here and take the heat. So that's what

[54:22] I'll continue to do, but I just want to share that. Any other questions, comments from council?

[54:30] Thank you, Ms. Cook.

[54:32] Thank you.

[54:32] We'll now move to our next item.

[54:35] Public speaks out.

[54:36] We've included instructions for speaking at this forum.

[54:40] Online and on the printed agenda.

[54:42] There were three opportunities to participate in public speaks out.

[54:45] Through written comments by calling in or by attending here in person tonight.

[54:50] And if you are here in person, I would like to ask you to take seats to the right if you can.

[54:56] Otherwise, please line up as your name is called, and the next speaker is called, that will help things move along quicker.

[55:04] Public speaks out, speakers have three minutes each, where there are comments and may speak on any town related topic.

[55:10] As long as it's not a public hearing, there's a three-minute time limit that will be enforced.

[55:15] We have a timer on the podium, starts off with a green light when it turns yellow.

[55:20] You have 30 seconds remaining and when it's expired, it will flash red.

[55:23] At that point, not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers, I will interrupt you and let

[55:29] you know that your time is expired.

[55:32] I would ask speakers be respectful and there are comments and direct those comments to the

[55:37] entire council and not to an individual, but also ask that everyone in the audience please

[55:42] understand that this is the business meeting and respect that this is the business meeting,

[55:47] do not applaud, make remarks from your seats, use props to do anything else that made

[55:52] from the meeting. So now is a time for public speaks out and I'll call on the clerk to share

[55:57] the number of written comments and call on any registered speakers. We have no

[56:03] calling speakers six written comments and 11 in-person registered speakers. Our first

[56:08] speaker is Nancy K. Fallabamari and Syria.

[56:22] Sadly I'm not a public speaker so you

[56:24] just have to move to your left please. You'll have to bear with me. I apologize in advance.

[56:31] So, good evening, my name is Nancy Jordan K and I live at 105 Ash from Court.

[56:37] I want you to know that I love the town of Perry and I'm excited about the mixed-used housing.

[56:43] Being created under the Imagine Carry Plan, using public and private financing.

[56:52] I'm here for Amberwood, yes I am.

[56:54] That's a public hearing, you'll get more time.

[56:56] Wait, wait, okay, so you can do so much.

[56:58] You're okay.

[56:59] Okay, I bought myself some time.

[57:02] Okay, so you'll be all new back.

[57:04] Okay, okay.

[57:05] So please, please, please.

[57:11] All right, our next register speaker is Marie and Sarah.

[57:16] Followed by Rob Jones.

[57:21] Good evening.

[57:21] My name is Marie and Sarah.

[57:23] I live at 407 Clearport Drive, Carrie.

[57:26] I have lived here for approximately 20 years.

[57:29] I'm an attorney for approximately 40.

[57:31] and I've worked for 20 years in local government, and want to thank the town of Kerry

[57:37] employees, not the ones that went to the 4,164 dollar dinner, not the ones that have been

[57:45] eating lunch every day on its planet Earth.

[57:49] I want to thank the employees that make this and frontline workers that make it a good place

[57:55] to live.

[57:56] The State Auditors report said it was a culture of hostility and difference to leadership.

[58:01] He reported that multiple employees spoke of having observed something they thought they

[58:05] should report, but they had no one to report it to.

[58:09] Of carries, 189 policies only 15 apply to employees.

[58:14] One EEO statement mentions reporting to complain to the town manager.

[58:18] How did that work out for carrying employees?

[58:20] There is no policy addressing harassment, anti-retelliation, whistle-floor protection, or among

[58:27] the policies recommended by the state, but I want to add one more, a grievance process.

[58:32] All of our neighbors, City of Raleigh, City of Durham, County of Durham, County of

[58:36] Wheat that you sit in, have a grievance process.

[58:39] You can cure it tonight.

[58:41] Womble recommended an obmuzzment, name outside council to hear grievances that can be investigated.

[58:48] If they are the direct reports, you can send those to outside Council.

[58:52] I hope you adopt all of the recommendations of the State Auditor and the Womble Report,

[58:57] including where in the Womble Report recommended examining the structure of the manager's

[59:04] office, which was, quote, expanded in size and reach.

[59:07] Put another way and overstaffed, top-heavy, division, or another extravagance.

[59:14] The culture of extravagance revealed in the State Auditors' report has brought widespread public

[59:21] disgrace to the town and to the Democratic Party that I am proud member of.

[59:29] That I have volunteered many, many years in these 20 years and I wish, and I call upon

[59:35] the legislature, would respond by passing a local act to allow a recall election.

[59:43] 24,

[59:52] 2021, 2025, we're complicit by accepting expensive dinners, car service.

[1:00:00] Tribal, tuition, revenge, sunglasses, and so much more, all of which contradicts the most recent faint ignorance

[1:00:10] of excesses by, as reported by the State Audit. I do not agree with Republicans very often,

[1:00:20] but the State Auditor nailed it. I'm sorry to inform you your time is expired. That's right. Thank you so much.

[1:00:37] Our next speaker is Rob Jones, followed by Sharon and Tobias.

[1:00:55] Our next speaker is Rob Jones, followed by Sharon Tobias.

[1:00:59] For Rob Jones here,

[1:01:03] go to the next speaker, please.

[1:01:05] Sharon Tobias?

[1:01:13] Well, that's the tough act to follow, but I'm going to try.

[1:01:17] I have my notes, but I think I'm going to table it.

[1:01:20] I went down the rabbit hole of the p-card,

[1:01:22] and probably the most oversight right now

[1:01:24] I can find is the three minutes on the limit, too.

[1:01:28] Anyhow, with all due respect about the Womble Report, as somebody who is face in science,

[1:01:35] research, and evidence-based practice, when you limit what you ask for, you get back what

[1:01:39] you're looking for.

[1:01:41] So when you limit to 28 employees, you didn't find the $750 Lugano's chart on a Sunday.

[1:01:49] You didn't find the Pinehurst Brewery.

[1:01:53] You didn't see almost 800,000 worth of Amazon charges.

[1:01:58] What's the job?

[1:02:01] Hey, not nervous.

[1:02:05] But how do you control that?

[1:02:07] Is it P card's link to personal Amazon account?

[1:02:11] How do you know what the town bought stays in the town?

[1:02:14] How do you know the $120,000 spent in Michaels stayed in the town?

[1:02:21] How do you know $700,000 spent multiple times at Lowe's stayed in the town?

[1:02:28] It's not the way a P card system is designed to work.

[1:02:32] You've got split charging on multiple purchases at a printer.

[1:02:37] I'm sorry I'm so nervous.

[1:02:39] To the tune of $8,000 for four purchases, I can just post the question, but most likely was that hiding some sort of non-compete where you didn't put it out for competitive bidding.

[1:02:53] How do you control and leverage your buying power?

[1:02:57] 55 P cards went dark when Sean's ego stepped down, but with all due respect, you only get what

[1:03:06] you want to find unless you go into it with an open mind and say, I'm best to get all

[1:03:11] the P cards.

[1:03:12] And that's why I had a table my notes when I heard there was no concerning other transactions.

[1:03:19] What about the Venmo to a person, to the tune of $9,000?

[1:03:25] That means somebody's P card linked to their personal Venmo.

[1:03:30] There's a lot more work to do because your taxpayers can't continue to shoulder the burden.

[1:03:36] We

[1:03:43] can't, you know, you, good question and I wish I could remember more of the totals.

[1:03:48] Do you realize you have a $32,000 transaction to gift cards?

[1:03:54] Who's, who's got the log?

[1:03:56] But my point being is your problem transcends 28 people.

[1:04:01] There's people out there using Amazon Cards that that's my Yankee accent.

[1:04:06] Cards that you can't track.

[1:04:09] Where are the receipts?

[1:04:10] I've requested the receipts for Pinehurst Brewery because it's the same

[1:04:14] Peacard on Saturdays.

[1:04:16] Do you owe shoes?

[1:04:18] $8,000 food purchase at lazy days.

[1:04:21] Done at the food trucks.

[1:04:22] Thank you.

[1:04:24] Sorry.

[1:04:24] All right.

[1:04:36] Our next speaker is Michael Anderson, followed by Linda Shaw.

[1:04:59] Mayor, council members, dancing queens.

[1:05:02] My name is Michael Anderson.

[1:05:04] I have a great county resident, a local small business owner, tax professional, and an enrolled

[1:05:09] agent.

[1:05:10] I'm not just speaking from a self here tonight.

[1:05:12] I am representing the dozens of hardworking taxpayers who trust me with their tax

[1:05:16] term preparation, planning, and representing them before federal, state, and local taxing

[1:05:20] authorities.

[1:05:21] Every single day, I sit across my desk from clients and advise them that they must follow

[1:05:25] the rules, pay their fair share of taxes.

[1:05:28] And frankly, you all are making me look like an idiot.

[1:05:31] I tell my clients to scrape together their tax payments just for you to take their harder

[1:05:35] money and blow up because you're too lazy to entitle their two incompetent to do your jobs.

[1:05:42] Let's talk about your priorities.

[1:05:43] You jacked up property taxes on my clients by 5% and then had a galt of push for another 11% hike

[1:05:50] Meanwhile, you sit back and collect an $800 monthly car allowance for a part-time gig

[1:05:55] Tax payers are essentially paying for your car to drive around town. You are actively failing to manage

[1:06:01] Throw in your $2,400 annual cell phone and internet allowances and it's no wonder you were completely clueless at the town's emergency

[1:06:07] Reserves had tank below mandatory minimums. You are too busy cashing your own checks to look at the balance sheet

[1:06:13] You expect us to believe you are just helpless victims misled by a mastermind town manager,

[1:06:18] it's pathetic.

[1:06:20] The auditor's report proves you were not victims, you are willfully ignorant and ableers.

[1:06:27] The report explicitly states you deliberately delegated financial matters away, so you wouldn't have to deal with them.

[1:06:34] Under this government, you are an elected body. You set the policies, you're supposed to see the operations.

[1:06:39] You can be bothered to oversee the budget, but you definitely found time to spend over $121,000

[1:06:46] on video production at your Wilmington retreat, including a $34,000 documentary about your

[1:06:51] own choreographed Dancing Queen Dance Video.

[1:06:55] Let's not forget the $37,000 of public money, quietly siphoned off, to pay for a sitting

[1:07:00] council member's graduation.

[1:07:02] You tell the town you didn't know what was happening, give us a break.

[1:07:06] You just didn't care as long as you got your paycheck.

[1:07:11] Playing dumb is not a defense.

[1:07:12] It is confession of gross incompetence.

[1:07:15] You abandon your fiduciary duty,

[1:07:17] because acting as a mindless rubber stamp

[1:07:18] was easier than doing the work you were elected to do.

[1:07:21] Stop passing the book.

[1:07:23] If you're disgraced a public service in this town,

[1:07:27] if you like the spine to read a budget

[1:07:29] and protect this town,

[1:07:30] or if you are in that dancing queen video,

[1:07:33] resign immediately.

[1:07:38] otherwise my clients and I will gladly throw you out at the ballot box. Thank you.

[1:07:44] Thank you. Our

[1:07:51] next speaker is Linda Shaw. Our next speaker is Linda Shaw.

[1:07:59] Follow my Andrew Hoss.

[1:08:06] Okay, we'll go to Andrew. I'm sorry. Linda is for the Amber Woods.

[1:08:13] will move her to that list and our next speaker's Andrew Hawes followed that Elliot Tartiff.

[1:08:24] Dear members of the town council and citizens of Kerry. My name is Andrew Hawes. Last month

[1:08:29] I stood here and used this public forum in a way that dishonored you. The purpose of this meeting

[1:08:35] and the convictions I claim should shape my life. I also spoke in a way that was deeply disrespectful

[1:08:41] to many in our immigrant and Hispanic communities. For that, I'm sincerely sorry.

[1:08:47] You provided this forum so the citizens can contribute to the good of our community, instead

[1:08:52] of doing that, I used my time in a way that created confusion, division, and hurt.

[1:08:57] I misused both the opportunity and the trust that comes with speaking before this council,

[1:09:02] and I apologize.

[1:09:05] In a misguided attempt to express support for law enforcement officers, I chose to read

[1:09:10] the script of a satirical video.

[1:09:12] I wanted to communicate one message, but instead communicated something very different.

[1:09:18] By words contributed to rhetoric that many understandably heard as racist and demeaning.

[1:09:23] While I did not write them, those were the words I chose to speak publicly, and I take

[1:09:29] full responsibility for them.

[1:09:31] I acted without wisdom, without counsel, and without prayer.

[1:09:36] Looking back, I see how pride convinced me that being provocative would accomplish something

[1:09:41] good instead of revealed poor judgment and caused real harm. As a Christian, I know Jesus

[1:09:48] commands us to love our neighbors. This concludes speaking about every person with dignity and

[1:09:52] honor because each person bears the image of God. My words failed to reflect that calling. They

[1:09:59] reflected frustration instead of love and they produced a vision where I should have sought

[1:10:03] understanding and peace. I'm deeply grieved that I have had to confront the painful reality

[1:10:09] What I said was not to reflect the man that I want to be or the Lord I profess to follow and that realization has been humbling

[1:10:17] I apologize to this council

[1:10:20] To the immigrant and Hispanic communities to my church to my family to the ministry where I used to serve and my co-workers to my friends and to anyone who was hurt or disappointed by what I said

[1:10:31] I cannot undo my words

[1:10:34] I cannot erase the hurt they caused

[1:10:36] I can only acknowledge my failure, ask for your forgiveness, and commit myself to speaking with greater

[1:10:43] humility, wisdom, and love in the future.

[1:10:46] Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to return today.

[1:10:50] I remain grateful to live in a country where we have freedom to speak, and where we also

[1:10:55] have the responsibility to own our words when we fail.

[1:11:00] Thank you for your time.

[1:11:01] May God bless the town of Kerry.

[1:11:10] Our next speaker is Elliot Tartof, followed by Evan Krockett.

[1:11:21] Before I begin, I'd like to say I'm right at three minutes, so please.

[1:11:26] Members of the Town Council, Mr. Overton, Mr. Mayor, could see you peacefully with you and yours.

[1:11:31] My name is Elliot Tartof, carry residents since 2014.

[1:11:35] My thoughts are rising out of the published reports of recent weeks or two of illuminists to put into three minutes,

[1:11:40] which is why I've provided them to you on the written record.

[1:11:43] Disassembling the sanitary language of your response and getting down to the dirty truth, it wasn't just systems that failed to prevent this.

[1:11:51] Laws did. People did. You did. My trust in government has been broken now at the local level too.

[1:11:59] Holistic changes discussed in the dashboard and not are needed to restore it. Here's two.

[1:12:05] First, the town manager town council model of government has been rightfully scrutinized, but state law,

[1:12:11] Section 1060A of the General Statutes, specifically stipulates this structure for all local governments.

[1:12:19] If we have seen here in elsewhere, this model embues to much power unto a person who is accountable to few and unaccountable to many.

[1:12:29] If Mr. Boliek were to perform the same rigorous review he did here unto all other local governments across the state, not one excluded, how many more carries would he find?

[1:12:40] This model excludes the weight of the townspeople in its two vulnerable to corruption, and

[1:12:46] Joan Street must reform, section 1-60A accordingly.

[1:12:51] I have written my representatives urging them to do exactly this, this email is attached to

[1:12:56] my written comments.

[1:12:58] Second, this is a town of nearly 200,000 people, staffed by hundreds, all charged with

[1:13:03] prosecuting the town's annual budget.

[1:13:05] Now, over $570 million annually in rising,

[1:13:09] same as our property taxes,

[1:13:11] but overseen by a dayist of part-time elected leaders.

[1:13:17] While this is the rule, not the exception I ask you,

[1:13:20] with these events have been nipped in the bud

[1:13:22] if you had a regular presence in town hall.

[1:13:25] As it was, the genesis of these revelations

[1:13:28] came from staff abandoning the chain of command

[1:13:31] to demand your audience.

[1:13:33] The business of this large dynamic town commands its elected leaders to have a full-time commitment to the same.

[1:13:41] This means making carries elected leaders full-time employees of this town, and with a regular presence in town hall.

[1:13:50] Work posture begets culture, and it starts with you.

[1:13:53] 12 minute response times the botch trolley car purchase books and document a theater of self-indulgence.

[1:14:00] These are part and parcel to your records for which there will be accountability and judgment come election day.

[1:14:06] But are also broader indictments on the part-time nature of this arrangement.

[1:14:11] Time is the only true fix.

[1:14:14] Thank you for yours.

[1:14:16] All right.

[1:14:20] Our next speaker is Evan Crocket.

[1:14:22] Follow by Hainaf Williams.

[1:14:36] Good evening.

[1:14:36] My name is Evan Crochet.

[1:14:37] I'm a carry resident and owner of by Crochet Media Lab, a local video production company.

[1:14:43] A Facebook post I made recently led to great conversations with council members, and I think

[1:14:47] council members Craig and Cone Johnson were taking the time to share their insight on my post.

[1:14:52] I'm standing here today to talk about restoring public trust after the state auditor's report

[1:14:56] as a release to my expertise in video production.

[1:14:58] The absurdity of those findings.

[1:15:07] I can't believe I just said that. Tax payers should have never foot the bill for an eGoField project like that. A half hour video like that proves a culture of self-importance has taken root in upper management and in the town's leadership.

[1:15:21] But top administrators living in privilege while overworked residents and staff, suffer in silence

[1:15:28] and unaffordable, increasingly unaffordable town.

[1:15:31] As a documentarian, I know what video production costs, in time and resources, watching

[1:15:37] leadership both on camera about taking time out of their workday, from their jobs shows

[1:15:42] me just how disconnected they are from people like me.

[1:15:46] It is truly an unbelievable display of government waste, and everyone involved should be ashamed

[1:15:52] and embarrassed that a high-level production was wasted on this venture.

[1:15:56] The former town manager was shown the door several months ago, but look who's still

[1:16:00] in their roles, even though they were heavily featured in the documentary.

[1:16:04] All of these people, several of these people, earned well over $200,000 a year.

[1:16:11] There is a glaring double standard if a worker making Wake County's average of $70,000

[1:16:17] committed these ethics violations and breaches that be fired on the spot.

[1:16:23] My question is very simple, who else knew about the cost?

[1:16:27] $35,000 is six months of wages for the average resident, spent on 30 minutes of vanity,

[1:16:33] whether through active participation or willful ignorance, failing to ask where that money

[1:16:37] went isn't a last lapse in judgment, it's total negligence of duty.

[1:16:41] When people who are hired as legal, financial, strategy, and HR, guardrails participate in

[1:16:48] this nonsense, it's like referees putting on jerseys to play for the team.

[1:16:52] There's nobody left to enforce the rules.

[1:16:54] Anyone complicit should do the right thing and resign from their roles.

[1:16:59] And I welcome the ongoing criminal investigation, and I hope the truth prevails.

[1:17:08] And I'm not here just to scold.

[1:17:09] We need to re-allocate this marketing budget.

[1:17:11] to establish something I'm calling the carry community storytelling initiative.

[1:17:16] Just as live streaming council meetings yields a massive return on trust,

[1:17:20] building an infrastructure for local storytelling is the logical way to spend

[1:17:24] marketing dollars in the town of carry. Instead of handing out unmonitored credit cards

[1:17:28] with zero oversight, let's create a quarterly application process for local media LLCs to compete for roles

[1:17:35] like this, pair of creators with high school classes for youth mentorship.

[1:17:38] and point that production back to our town, thank you.

[1:17:42] Thank you for your time.

[1:17:49] Our speaker is Henna F William.

[1:18:02] Good evening.

[1:18:03] Mayor town, counsel.

[1:18:04] Madam Clerk,

[1:18:09] I am profoundly disappointed

[1:18:14] at what I have engaged in this

[1:18:18] council.

[1:18:20] And I have given my advice privately.

[1:18:23] Which recently has one ignored and much of what you are

[1:18:28] witnessing tonight, I forewarned you about and I gave steps in how to mitigate some of what you see the night, but this is what your hand has called for.

[1:18:43] I adamantly object to the myth being propagated that the substance of the investigation can be placed entirely on the former town manager.

[1:18:57] It

[1:19:02] is very truthful that he must answer for his own conduct, but placing all responsibility

[1:19:12] or one former employee would be a broad leap of Olympic proportions.

[1:19:22] We should call him King Sean, because he had unilaterally authority that I had never seen

[1:19:27] before the mayor.

[1:19:29] You have been in office for 20 years.

[1:19:33] It is not only not only an insult to these great residents of this incredible town, but only

[1:19:41] yourself to say that you can be in office with that much experience and allow something like

[1:19:49] that to take place.

[1:19:50] The practical reality is that the report identifies challenges, operational dynamics,

[1:19:58] insufficient performance metrics, limited council oversight, and also what I want to

[1:20:04] mention is this conference Tuesday, it was a tragic lack of humility within a

[1:20:14] system that allowed these circumstances to continue. The auditor, and I think we

[1:20:19] all need to applaud him, that was an unbelievable, and I am in research science too,

[1:20:25] the detail to that investigation needs to be admired and committed,

[1:20:36] specifically when he mentioned this council,

[1:20:40] this is the quote from that report, the investigation,

[1:20:45] enabled this approach and allowed it to continue.

[1:20:49] That was in the report of the state auditor,

[1:20:52] To my expectation, the town must now focus on building out the oversight function, which was mentioned,

[1:20:59] established additional safeguards against waste and retaliation and ensuring that no official may act unilaterally outside clearly defined parameters.

[1:21:10] I respectfully request a specifically scheduled town hall-style meeting where residents may confer directly with the mayor and council

[1:21:20] receive substantive answers and evaluate the town's corrective mandate

[1:21:26] before public confidence continues on a downward trajectory.

[1:21:31] Thank you.

[1:21:38] That's all our rest your speakers.

[1:21:40] How much time's left in public speaks out?

[1:21:41] We started at 724 and we were currently at 715.

[1:21:45] If you would like to speak at public speaks out,

[1:21:47] now's your opportunity.

[1:21:49] Please, I would ask that you line up to the right there.

[1:21:54] When you come to the podium, please give your name.

[1:21:58] Hi, I'm Mark Zumbak.

[1:22:00] I'm a carry residence since 1967.

[1:22:06] I want reiterate a lot of the things that have been said already,

[1:22:09] but I do want to make a comment about moving forward.

[1:22:14] And that is what I see as one of the biggest problems with Mr. Sequel

[1:22:19] is that he was a superstar, and the council was blinded by a rainmaker and a superstar,

[1:22:30] and they turned a whole lot over him, and I just really want to caution we not do that moving

[1:22:35] forward. Look within the town, we don't need to go outside and find some flashy person who

[1:22:41] showed up in the media and bring them in and hand over the keys to them. And then the other

[1:22:48] point I wanted to make is of the findings, I think the most horrifying finding is that the surveys

[1:22:57] of town employees were stopped ten years ago.

[1:23:01] And I mean, every place I've ever worked, that's an annual, annual must do.

[1:23:07] And it's not just been a culture of privilege in the town, but it's been a culture of bullying.

[1:23:14] And I know that, and I'm not an employee.

[1:23:17] And I know if you were not kissing Sean's ham, if you were not his psychophant, you were on the

[1:23:25] out and it's ugly, it's really, really ugly and I just really want to encourage, I want

[1:23:33] to add one more thing, town council, implement a policy of taking employee to lunch every Friday.

[1:23:41] You know, I mean, they don't see you guys.

[1:23:45] I've talked with several town employees who said the last mayor they saw walks through

[1:23:51] the halls was Glen Lane.

[1:23:55] So you're not making yourselves known in the town halls here, and it shows.

[1:24:03] Thank you.

[1:24:17] Good evening, Mayor Weinbrecht and members of the council.

[1:24:20] My name is Todd McGee and I'm a 22-year resident of Kerry.

[1:24:23] Like many, I am concerned about what has happened in the last year in our town government.

[1:24:28] Those concerns grew when the State Auditor's report came out and revealed widespread

[1:24:32] problems that go much further than an out-of-control town manager.

[1:24:37] I am here tonight because I fear the town council will try to use Sean Stegel as a convenient

[1:24:42] scapegoat and not address some of the issues I would like to draw your attention to.

[1:24:49] First is the sheer number of town employees who have P cards.

[1:24:52] Second is the lack's oversight of these cards.

[1:24:55] Third is the gross misuse of these cards by employees who should know better.

[1:25:00] I have no doubt Shawn said a terrible example,

[1:25:03] but that doesn't excuse those who followed his lead.

[1:25:06] Apparently, many employees were, and perhaps still are,

[1:25:10] convinced town peak cards are their personal get-a-lunch free card.

[1:25:14] The auditor's report noted many trips to Sessou,

[1:25:17] academy street bistro, and craft public house.

[1:25:20] Favourite locations for town employees are the pecking plume restaurant and scratch kitchen in taproom.

[1:25:27] Both revisited 128 times over the two years covered by the auditor's report.

[1:25:33] In other words, 11 times a month, the tax paying citizens of carry provided a free lunch room employees at either of those two restaurants.

[1:25:41] This is unacceptable. The town of carry's P card policy states, items and or services to be purchased

[1:25:48] are for the official use of the town of Kerry.

[1:25:51] I would like to know how paying for employee meals at upscale eating establishments can be considered an official use.

[1:25:58] If you look at the AutoCers report, Card 529 belonged to Stegel.

[1:26:03] In the two years, he racked up almost $3,000 in non-travel-related meals.

[1:26:08] However, he was not the worst defender.

[1:26:09] Card 614 racked up almost $6,000 and local dining expenses with 72 different visits that

[1:26:18] three per month.

[1:26:20] The charges are often for more than $100, meaning at least three or four employees rent

[1:26:24] on this.

[1:26:25] Many speakers here are expressing their shock and anger.

[1:26:28] I share those sentiments, but I am not here just to vent.

[1:26:31] I am here to ask you to take two actions.

[1:26:33] First, adopt a policy banning any employee from paying for any meal with the town peak

[1:26:39] effect of immediately. Second, I ask you to review the local dining expenses found on these

[1:26:44] pecards, back to January 1st, 2021, and require employees to reimburse the town for these

[1:26:51] calls, unless they can provide

[1:26:57] documentation to prove their served at public purpose. Taxed

[1:27:01] dollars are not a luxury to spend on personal vanity projects like videos or books or for

[1:27:06] extravagances like limousines and luxury sweets. Nor are they to be used to pay for employees

[1:27:11] dining habits. There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst some staff, and on behalf

[1:27:16] of Kerry's tax paying citizens, I ask you to help correct this behavior.

[1:27:20] Thank you.

[1:27:39] Good evening, Town Council. My name is Mark Stolenman. I'm a Kerry taxpayer and a resident

[1:27:45] in downtown Kerry.

[1:27:48] I'm recently retired as a 30-year North Carolina Certify Public Accountant.

[1:27:54] and also sat in your chairs for 10 years in the town of Morrisville recently.

[1:28:01] You know, in the old days, when town folks who really upset, they'd come to town hall with torches

[1:28:07] and pitchforks. I'm coming forward with something a lot more scary. That's my

[1:28:14] tax bill. I just received an antenna carry.

[1:28:21] I think most people accept taxes as a way of life.

[1:28:24] They accept paying them every year, but they should really be focused on the three-piece

[1:28:30] of municipal government, planning, parks and wreck, public safety, and public works.

[1:28:37] Outside of that, you should really question what your money's being spent on.

[1:28:42] You know, it's not okay to buy Ray Banson glasses, $200 state dinners, banana fostered desserts,

[1:28:50] and gourmet popcorn on our dime.

[1:28:55] It's not okay to have the taxpayers fund your graduate tuition.

[1:29:05] It's not okay to spend a million dollars plus on unsealable land

[1:29:09] because it's your favorite apartment developer who's selling it.

[1:29:14] It's not okay to fund an egotistical book about how great your town manager is

[1:29:20] and it's a blueprint for how to miss spend millions of dollars.

[1:29:24] It's also not OK to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a dancing queen video, and especially not OK to spend more money on a video on how you made the video of dancing queens.

[1:29:39] This is merely the tip of the iceberg.

[1:29:41] I think if you go back enough years, you're going to find that the abuse was in the tens of millions of dollars.

[1:29:48] If you think this is okay, I think you should rethink your public service career.

[1:29:57] Just think of the money that you could have spent.

[1:30:00] On raises for your police and fire. Think about the tax rates that you could load if you had not spent this money.

[1:30:08] The town manager did not do this on his own. There are a lot of town leaders and staff leaders that let this happen.

[1:30:18] Sadly, there have been no formal apologies, only toned tax increases, one council member said recently I regret that I didn't ask harder questions.

[1:30:30] These are not hard questions. This is common sense. A tough question is, why haven't we seen more retirements and firearms and regulations? Please do a better job with our tax dollars.

[1:30:42] I'm retired and on a fixed income and I can't pay for any more of this nonsense.

[1:30:48] Thank you.

[1:31:06] Good evening Mayor and Council.

[1:31:07] I'm Renee Miller.

[1:31:12] And unfortunately I have been ill the past month, but I did have an opportunity to review

[1:31:18] some of the auditor's report.

[1:31:21] And one item in particular jumped out at me, one that you have particularly benefited from.

[1:31:27] And that is the $800 to dollars a month that you receive in car allowance.

[1:31:34] That equals at the current rates, 1,055 miles we are paying for you to drive.

[1:31:43] In one case it means 1,758 trips to town hall for one of the council members.

[1:31:52] I believe that for three months you should log your miles just like any other employee would and those

[1:32:03] locks should be publicly posted and then averaged to reset this amount to something that's more

[1:32:09] reasonable.

[1:32:10] Thank you.

[1:32:15] How much time do we have left?

[1:32:17] We are 8 o'clock so 24 minutes.

[1:32:19] If you'd like to speak of public speaks out, we, how about a bunch of four, now is your opportunity.

[1:32:26] Anyone else from public speaks out?

[1:32:31] Just is any topic that's not a public hearing?

[1:32:36] Yes, Amber Wood is a public hearing.

[1:32:39] Anyone else?

[1:32:44] Okay, we'll close public speaks out.

[1:32:47] We'll move to the consent agenda, which is item four, if you're following along for the benefit of people watching our meeting,

[1:32:54] Streaming I will take a moment to review our consent agenda items one vote approves these items on the consent agenda

[1:33:02] We have approval of minutes

[1:33:04] Resolution approving act 41 amendment to Chatham Carey joint land use plan

[1:33:11] Resolution calling for public hearing for 25 a.o. 9 Jacob's Creek

[1:33:16] Bit award for the swift creek pump station electrical improvement project

[1:33:20] Request for referral for further consideration from planning and zoning board.

[1:33:28] Update policy 143 rules and procedures for the town council.

[1:33:37] Salesforce licensee purchase for fiscal year 2027 and approval of an amendment to the meeting schedule.

[1:33:46] would council members like to pull any of these items for discussion, if not, I would entertain

[1:33:51] a motion to approve the consent agenda.

[1:33:54] So moved.

[1:33:56] There's a motion and a second discussion.

[1:33:58] All of a favor please say aye.

[1:33:59] Aye.

[1:34:00] Any opposed motion carries unanimously, and that takes us to public hearings.

[1:34:05] Same rules.

[1:34:06] Public hearings that apply for public speaks out except speakers will now have five minutes

[1:34:11] each for their comments.

[1:34:12] Our first and second item will be presented together, 26A04, which is 719 Pittered Sears Road

[1:34:20] annexation, and 26R-104, which is 719 Pittered Sears Road Resoning.

[1:34:28] Principal planning, principal planner Rachel Smith will introduce the item and council will

[1:34:34] not take action on this item tonight.

[1:34:36] It will be referred to our planning and zoning board for their review and recommendation

[1:34:41] and return to Council in a few months is Smith.

[1:34:46] Thank you. Good evening council.

[1:34:48] This is a public hearing on a request to annex and apply initial

[1:34:52] carries on to approximately 5.9 acres at 719 Pittered Sears Road.

[1:34:59] The property is not in carries extra territorial jurisdiction,

[1:35:02] so concurrent annexation of the property is required with the rezoning.

[1:35:06] Staff recommends that action on the proposed annexation, 26A-04, be deferred until the

[1:35:13] rezoning returns to Council for final decision.

[1:35:18] The site is located in Chattam County on the south side of Pittered Sears Road, approximately

[1:35:23] a quarter mile east of the American tobacco trail.

[1:35:27] The site is west of the Carolina Preserve at Amberly Neighborhood, and is north and east

[1:35:33] of property owned by the Army Corps of Engineers.

[1:35:38] Carey's GIS does not indicate stream buffer is located on the site.

[1:35:43] Field determination of such features is required at the time of development plan review.

[1:35:51] The street site trail was recently constructed along the site's front-inch

[1:35:54] on Peter's Road as part of a capital project.

[1:36:00] Peter's Road is identified as a two-lane collector on Carey's plan to roadway wits map.

[1:36:08] The site is currently within Chattam County and is zoned to Chattam County residential one.

[1:36:14] And the applicant proposes an initial carry zoning of residential 12 conditional use, or R12CU.

[1:36:24] The zoning conditions include limiting the development to a maximum of 11 detached dwellings.

[1:36:30] Every home will have at least a two-car garage wired for 60 amps to support EV charging,

[1:36:37] and the developer will dedicate right away and improve Pittered Sears Road to all applicable standards.

[1:36:42] A preliminary analysis against the Imagine Carey Community Plan found the policies from multiple chapters apply, along with guidance from the Chatham Carey Joint Land Use Plan.

[1:36:57] The Joint Plan generally recommends lower density, moving from east to west towards Jordan Lake, supported by corresponding land use sub areas.

[1:37:07] The subject site is in the low-density residential sub-area, which recommends one to two gross units per acre.

[1:37:17] The proposed density of approximately 1.86 units per acre fits the skydense.

[1:37:25] Surrounding low-density residential sub-area developments are under two dwellings per acre,

[1:37:31] with higher densities in the medium-density sub-area,

[1:37:33] which includes the Carolina preserve

[1:37:35] at Amberly Neighborhood to the East and to the South.

[1:37:40] The staff report provides further detail

[1:37:42] on the joint plan and the surrounding development pattern.

[1:37:49] Policies within the live, shape, and enrich chapters

[1:37:52] of the imaginary community plan also apply.

[1:37:56] We note that the area is largely surrounded

[1:37:58] by existing carry detached dwelling neighborhoods.

[1:38:03] The proposed use, density,

[1:38:04] and lot size may support the live and shape chapters policies on

[1:38:10] infill development and appropriate transitions.

[1:38:14] For the enriched chapter, the commitment to wiring garages for future

[1:38:18] electric vehicle charging may support policies on sustainable energy practices.

[1:38:25] In terms of move chapter policies, the proposed rezoning

[1:38:29] inclusive commitment to dedicate right away and to improve Pittered Sears Road to all applicable

[1:38:35] standards. However, the developer has declined to offer two additional commitments recommended

[1:38:41] by staff that could help meet move chapter objectives for pedestrian safety.

[1:38:48] A prohibition on direct driveway access to Pittered Sears Road, which is a best practice for

[1:38:54] collector streets, and the provision of sidewalks on both sides of subdivision streets.

[1:39:04] A neighborhood meeting was held in April in 16 members of the public attended.

[1:39:09] Questions and concerns were related to stormwater and drainage, perimeter buffers,

[1:39:15] tree clearing and conservation, street connectivity, and the proposed housing product

[1:39:20] and development details.

[1:39:22] There have been approximately a dozen inquiries since the notice of the neighborhood meeting,

[1:39:27] and then the notice of this public hearing.

[1:39:30] Including very similar questions and concerns, generally regarding the proposed density

[1:39:34] and lot sizes, the size and architecture of the proposed homes, stormwater, connectivity

[1:39:40] and roadway improvements, preservation of trees, perimeter buffers, and also the condition

[1:39:46] and maintenance of Pittered Sears Road.

[1:39:50] Notice of the public hearing was mailed to property owners with an 800 feet of the subject site.

[1:39:56] This exceeds the state and carries LDO requirements and signs were posted on the site.

[1:40:05] This concludes my presentation.

[1:40:07] Andy Porter, the applicants representative, is here to provide comments and following the public hearing.

[1:40:13] I'm available for your questions.

[1:40:15] Thank you, Ms. Smith.

[1:40:16] I'll invite the applicant for this.

[1:40:28] Good evening, Mayor. Members of Town Council. My name is Andy Porter. I'm Vice President

[1:40:34] and a landscape architect with TMTLA Associates, a local landscape architecture and land

[1:40:39] planning firm in Durham. Also here with me this evening in the gallery we have Lauren Hicks.

[1:40:43] She's a town of Carrie resident. She's also with Dunhill Investors property owner.

[1:40:50] Thank you Rachel for the great overview covering the basis of the request to annex and apply

[1:40:55] tentacary initial zoning. I will keep my comments brief this evening. Rachel covered all the specifics,

[1:41:03] so I don't necessarily want to go over all that again, but I do have a few quick points to recap.

[1:41:10] So the properties one existing parcel, it's on the east side of Peter Sears Road, it's approximately

[1:41:15] 5.9 acres in size. There are no existing homes on the property. There are no existing wetlands or

[1:41:23] which is unusual.

[1:41:26] The existing Chendem County zoning is our one residential district one,

[1:41:30] and this is one of the last parcels on Pittered Sears Road

[1:41:34] that has direct frontage on Pittered Sears Road.

[1:41:39] As many of you may be aware, an excitation and initial zoning

[1:41:42] was recently approved earlier this year for the property

[1:41:45] directly north of Pittered Sears Road.

[1:41:49] That property was re-zone for R-8CU

[1:41:51] to see you with a commitment, and I know more of 23 dwelling units.

[1:41:56] I mentioned this for comparison of our current requests.

[1:42:00] With annexation, we're requesting the zoning of R12CU,

[1:42:05] conditional use district.

[1:42:07] The R12 zoning requires a minimum of 12,000 square foot lot.

[1:42:13] And also, I want to mention, Dunhill investors, the property owner.

[1:42:17] They also develop the Dunhill subdivision that's on peter to use food.

[1:42:21] many of you may be aware. The lots within done hill existing subdivision are 12,000 square foot,

[1:42:28] plus or minus so that subdivision is very comparable. We anticipate and equal housing

[1:42:35] product to be constructed should this get approved. We held neighborhood meeting on April 15th

[1:42:43] and we worked with planning and transportation staff on the current commitments.

[1:42:48] I would look forward to work with staff and neighbors as we continue to move forward with the

[1:42:53] annexation and rezoning process and we're happy to receive feedback from town council

[1:42:58] and neighbors this evening. Thank you, and I'm here for any questions.

[1:43:02] Thank you. So now's time for the public hearing for the Pittered Sears rezoning and annexation.

[1:43:09] And I'll call on the clerk to share the number of written comments and call on any registered

[1:43:14] speakers. We have no calling speakers, no registered speakers, and

[1:43:20] vibrant comments. And they were provided to counsel at their seat on the

[1:43:25] agenda in email beforehand. Thank you. If you are here and would like to speak

[1:43:29] at this Pittered Sears Resonning and Exition Nails, your opportunity, and I would

[1:43:34] invite you forward. Anyone to speak at this public hearing? Yes.

[1:43:46] Could you move to

[1:43:47] your left please? Thank you. I was one of the residents that got one of the

[1:43:51] notices and my home is located very close to this. My biggest question about this.

[1:43:57] Did you give us your name? Yes, sorry. That's okay. Sonnalee.

[1:44:01] So Pitterseer's Road is very narrow. There's not much except for where you walk on as a pedestrian.

[1:44:10] The area just below where this is being annexed is where the tobacco trail is.

[1:44:15] There are a lot of pedestrians over there and people cross those areas a lot.

[1:44:21] My biggest concern would be whether the developer is going to invest in limiting the

[1:44:27] amount of traffic and making sure the pedestrians are safe in doing this type of, I know

[1:44:35] that in doing just a little limited amount of research, the type of zoning change that's

[1:44:40] going to happen makes it less restrictive for the developer and so my concern would be what

[1:44:46] is going to be done to protect pedestrians.

[1:44:49] There's a lot of children that ride bikes in this area so that would be my comment.

[1:44:55] Thank you.

[1:44:57] Anyone else to speak at this public hearing?

[1:45:01] I think no one else calls public hearing up in and up to council members for questions or comments.

[1:45:07] I guess the questions, mostly questions, can you speak a little bit more about the

[1:45:14] Army Corps of Engineers and what can be built there, the land that south of that,

[1:45:27] or maybe it's.

[1:45:35] So, Sean and White, dearly here, is the Army Corps of Engineers' property and I think that this

[1:45:41] the floodplain map would actually illustrate this pretty well as well,

[1:45:53] generally in here.

[1:45:55] So you can see that this is floodplain in here and then stream buffer running up in here.

[1:46:01] And so that would typically not be a development parcel due to those environmental features.

[1:46:08] So are there extra requirements for the developer, for runoff or obviously our stormwater laws already apply?

[1:46:17] But is there anything special that needs to be done because it

[1:46:21] abuts the Army Corps land?

[1:46:24] I was prepped by our stormwater staff for this potential question.

[1:46:30] So specifically, it's not the Army Corps property in and of itself

[1:46:34] because it's owned by the Army Corps.

[1:46:36] I think the reason they own it probably is related to the fact

[1:46:40] that it's watershed.

[1:46:42] But the proposed future development is within the Jordan Lake

[1:46:46] water should overlay, so the development will be required to capture runoff with an on-site

[1:46:52] stormwater control measure or SCM. That would also include all of the right of way improvements.

[1:46:59] There are also impervious limits established for the individual lots themselves. This will be

[1:47:04] recorded on the plat. It will depend a little bit on the size and type of the SCM and also runoff

[1:47:11] control will be required for the 1, 2, 5, 10, and 100 year storms as well. Does that help

[1:47:18] to answer your question? That's it, yeah. And we received some place or concerns about the

[1:47:24] runoff that's currently happening, but are there? Can you speak to that? Is there additional

[1:47:30] planning going on? So I think you might be referring to a couple of written comments as well as

[1:47:35] a video that it was provided. I have shared that video and actually watched it in real time with

[1:47:40] warm water staff. So the development plan reviewers who are responsible for reviewing any future

[1:47:47] development such as this are aware of that video and will take into account the information

[1:47:52] that was provided by the residents both in written and visual form. Okay, and there we go.

[1:47:57] Thank you. Other questions, concerns? I have a question. So I'm trying to look for that information

[1:48:06] on our Townsweb site. I'm not able to find it. It's related to 25 R.A.C.O.O.5.

[1:48:13] Peter 3, Spitter Sears Road, Zoning, that was approved about six months ago, and their project

[1:48:20] was based similar. It was all detached dwelling. I believe it was four points, some acres. I thought,

[1:48:30] and I see this on the map that you're showing right now on screen and I could be totally

[1:48:35] wrong and it could be totally, you know, I'm phasing out right now. But I thought, it was

[1:48:43] our 12 CU, that was approved. So the request actually started for TRCU at the time of

[1:48:52] public hearing throughout the process. It was revised to be R8 CU, which you see on your

[1:48:58] screen. It's this property here in the green hatching. That R8 CU was the approved zoning

[1:49:04] for that property. And right next to it is a parcel that the builder at that time suggests

[1:49:11] that they have purchased it and it will come back to the console. They plan to allocate

[1:49:17] that property for a stormwater resolution, you know, because at that time there was a lot of

[1:49:23] feet back related to stormwater. Is it possible that this applicant could work with that applicant

[1:49:31] and perhaps leverage some of that.

[1:49:35] We can certainly provide contact information for both parties.

[1:49:39] I don't have any more questions.

[1:49:42] Other questions, comments?

[1:49:44] I just wanted to urge the applicant to reconsider the two pedestrian safety recommendations

[1:49:51] by staff.

[1:49:52] Actually, I have questions on this, so would the applicant put sidewalks in on one side only of the streets in the development?

[1:50:05] On local streets, carries regulations only require a sidewalk on one side, okay.

[1:50:12] And can you tell me, are there driveway cuts allowed in the recently approved, I believe it's the R8CU to the north?

[1:50:19] Are there driveway cuts allowed in the the the the rezoning we approved or whatever the zoning is on the properties near there?

[1:50:30] So I'm wondering how dissimilar it is to to for this property to be allowed to have driveway cuts on that collector road as opposed to the neighboring properties?

[1:50:42] So, I just confirmed with air and that there was no written zoning condition for

[1:50:46] hybidine.

[1:50:47] The period is a collidered period.

[1:50:49] Here's a collector on both sides for both sides purposes.

[1:50:53] However, typically it is a best practice.

[1:50:57] We have other regulations that tend to prohibit direct driveway access to collectors, but it

[1:51:03] can happen.

[1:51:04] It's not a direct prohibition, but there are certain standards that discourage them.

[1:51:11] Okay.

[1:51:12] Can you dumb that down for me?

[1:51:16] So, they are technically allowed, but there's probably other requirements that make them

[1:51:22] exceptionally difficult to do.

[1:51:25] Good evening, council.

[1:51:25] Thank you.

[1:51:27] So, depending on the type of collector, they are limited to the, what your friends has

[1:51:31] driveway cuts, they are limited to the number of dryways or street accesses on to the

[1:51:40] collector.

[1:51:40] This is a NCDOT owned road, and so they would have to get those permits through NCDOT, and we have been working with both of the applicants to make sure that their driveways align with one another.

[1:51:56] If this was a carry owned road, would we be able to prohibit this development with if it included driveway cuts onto that road?

[1:52:04] Our SIM collector requirements will apply here.

[1:52:07] Okay, so the exception here is primarily because it's an NCDOT road and we can't regulate

[1:52:12] drugway cuts on an NCDOT road in a project.

[1:52:16] Well, we can guide that and work with NCDOT on what the appropriate safety access should be.

[1:52:21] And we have our required standards, which they would be required to meet.

[1:52:25] Unless in this instance there may be limited access to a remaining lot that may not be able to

[1:52:32] have internal connectivity, which is the condition that staff had mentioned.

[1:52:39] Thank you.

[1:52:40] I appreciate the clarity.

[1:52:42] And I did want to just bring attention to the questions.

[1:52:45] There's in the written comments that we received here, particularly Mr. Sullivan, and there's some others.

[1:52:51] They're asking, I think, pretty reasonable questions that they'd like some answers to.

[1:52:57] I mean, obviously, this is the public hearing.

[1:52:59] This is the ideal time to answer those questions, and I don't know that all of these are, you know,

[1:53:05] when they ask about our contextual requirements of the home, I think that's, you know,

[1:53:09] broadly part of our, our, our ordinances in general, but, you know, a timeline for development.

[1:53:16] I know that's not something that's typically provided to us, but what about maximum and minimum size of the

[1:53:22] homes to be built? Is there a minimum or maximum that's applied in a situation like this?

[1:53:28] That's typically not something that we would regulate.

[1:53:31] Just lots eyes, right?

[1:53:32] We would regulate lots eyes, correct?

[1:53:34] And I did respond to Mr. Sullivan's email yesterday.

[1:53:36] Excellent.

[1:53:37] OK. Thank you.

[1:53:38] And that's all I had.

[1:53:39] I just, you know, the, the, I've driven on that road,

[1:53:42] the driveway cuts give me pause.

[1:53:45] That's just seems like a really strange place for a driveway.

[1:53:49] It, you know, it reminds me of probably some of the challenges

[1:53:52] people who have cuts on some of our other thoroughfares,

[1:53:55] You know, like Maynard or Walnut, where they probably wish they didn't.

[1:54:00] Or it was a different road when they built.

[1:54:01] It was very different when they built it.

[1:54:03] But we know this is a collector.

[1:54:04] And we know the traffic isn't going to reduce on that.

[1:54:07] I know Council Member Poncell.

[1:54:09] You probably have a perspective on that as well.

[1:54:12] I just don't.

[1:54:13] It just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[1:54:16] I agree with you.

[1:54:17] And I think definitely some of these comments.

[1:54:20] Thank you for pointing that out.

[1:54:21] I totally phased out of this.

[1:54:23] earlier after the first section of our discussion. But there's another question that's here

[1:54:32] about the buffer.

[1:54:38] It's by Dennis Curtin. It's talking about tree preservation, tree planning,

[1:54:45] construction protection and

[1:54:50] the buffer committee. Talk about the buffer. I don't know if we

[1:54:54] of what that in this presentation.

[1:54:57] Sure, I just mentioned about the default buffer for privacy.

[1:55:03] Yes, so several of the comments you have received

[1:55:05] talk about the Carolina Preserves buffer.

[1:55:08] So that's a 30 foot type A. Some of the emails

[1:55:11] said type B, but it is a type A. I confirmed that.

[1:55:14] So they have an existing 30 foot type A as well.

[1:55:17] They have a fence.

[1:55:19] The requirement adjacent to this property to be provided

[1:55:23] by this developer, would be a 20 foot type B, so that is not as high of a planting standard

[1:55:31] as the type A to type A is typically a little bit denser.

[1:55:35] But the applicant could voluntarily do 20 feet of type A for a combined buffer of 50 feet

[1:55:41] of type A, which I think would probably go a long way with your neighbors in the east, right?

[1:55:49] They could, they could, they could, they could, they could do that.

[1:55:52] They could offer that.

[1:55:56] That was, I had a similar comment.

[1:55:59] So thank you to my colleagues for, for beating me to it.

[1:56:02] It's just, I'm looking at the satellite map right now.

[1:56:05] And it looks like there's considerable tree canopy to the south and west of the parcel.

[1:56:11] And as I encourage every applicant in particularly mindful of preserving as much of that canopy as possible.

[1:56:18] So maybe some voluntary conditions could help address that.

[1:56:21] What's that any other question to someone?

[1:56:24] One other, is it possible to not have driveway cuts?

[1:56:31] For instance, is there enough width of the property

[1:56:35] so that the applicant could do a single driveway cut

[1:56:40] into a neighborhood or is the property just to narrow?

[1:56:44] I'm trying to understand what the need for potentially

[1:56:47] 11 at the most 11 drive-in cuts for the 11 homes?

[1:56:52] So I don't know that there would be room for 11 drive-in cuts.

[1:56:56] We don't have a lot layout at this time in the rezoning process that will be provided at development plan.

[1:57:04] In my mind, I can see this laying out as a cul-de-sax street personally, but I don't have that knowledge.

[1:57:11] So I think that would be very helpful if the developer could come back,

[1:57:16] especially before the planning and zoning board.

[1:57:19] If they give the planning and zoning board an idea

[1:57:22] of what that road, what that collector would look like.

[1:57:26] How many cuts are we talking about?

[1:57:28] Are we talking about a single, like you said,

[1:57:30] call the sack street for those 11 homes?

[1:57:33] I think it's really difficult to envision what that would look like.

[1:57:41] Anything else next step in this process

[1:57:44] is it will go to the planning and zoning board

[1:57:47] for their review and recommendation and return to Council in a few months.

[1:57:53] Our next public hearing is going to be a long one.

[1:57:56] So before we get started, I want to take a very short by a break.

[1:58:01] Jenny, I want to come on.

[1:58:02] Hello.

[1:58:04] So he's saying body, break?

[2:06:03] In our council meeting at this time, our next public hearing is for a resolution authority,

[2:06:11] rally housing authority to acquire and preserve mixed income housing and carry, director of

[2:06:18] planning and community development. Heather Willahan will present the item and council may take

[2:06:23] action, Ms. Willahan. Good evening, Mayor and council. Tonight is a public hearing to consider

[2:06:29] of a resolution authorizing the Raleigh Housing Authority to operate and carry for the purposes

[2:06:35] of acquiring and preserving the affordability of 340 existing mixed income multifamily dwellings

[2:06:41] within the Amberwood Allock Mirror community. The Raleigh Housing Authority has asked that we

[2:06:46] bring this request to you during their contract due diligence period, so we are here tonight to

[2:06:51] present that request. After the public carrying council may take action on this item.

[2:06:56] First, I'm going to talk a little bit about procedures since this is unusual for us, and

[2:07:01] then we'll specifically cover the request before you tonight.

[2:07:05] The Raleigh Housing Authority is a government entity created under North Carolina General

[2:07:09] Statutes, Chapter 157, known as the Housing Authority Law.

[2:07:14] The law authorizes housing authorities to serve low and moderate income residents within adjacent

[2:07:18] municipalities, but only if a community adopts a resolution authorizing them to do so.

[2:07:25] Adopting a resolution authorizing a housing authority to operate is a technical requirement and does not make counselor carry a party to the acquisition or any related financing of the property.

[2:07:36] Additionally, properties must be in compliance with all zoning and town ordinances.

[2:07:42] Turning to Amber Wood at Luckmere.

[2:07:44] This existing apartment complex was originally developed in two phases.

[2:07:47] first, the first phase in 1991 and the second in 1996. It offers one, two, and three bedroom garden style apartments with a total of 340 units.

[2:07:59] It's located at the intersection of southeast Kerry Parkway and Piny Plains Road about one mile southwest of the Destination Center at Crossroads,

[2:08:07] and one mile east of the Destination Center at Kilder Farm Road and Trion Road.

[2:08:14] Amber Wood is a part of the Lock Mirror community and is 96% occupied, so home to about

[2:08:19] 314 carry households.

[2:08:22] Amber Wood is considered naturally occurring affordable housing or NOAA, meaning that

[2:08:28] it is an unsubsidized unrestricted property offering below market rents.

[2:08:33] It currently rents at rates affordable to households earning approximately 52% of the

[2:08:44] average rent of 1510.

[2:08:47] This type of below market unrestricted residential property

[2:08:50] often serves as a community's largest supply

[2:08:53] of affordable housing.

[2:08:56] And properties like this represent

[2:08:58] important affordable housing and carry.

[2:09:01] In markets like ours, where comparable rents are higher,

[2:09:05] a property is considered to have rent to headroom.

[2:09:09] Amber would as being marketed with the value proposition

[2:09:12] that it has two to three hundred dollars in rent headroom.

[2:09:18] It's impossible to predict every potential scenario, but two outcomes that properties like this

[2:09:23] often faced and often faced in a profit-motivated market are.

[2:09:29] First, a private investor inquires the property, invest in renovations, and increases rents.

[2:09:35] Potentially, pricing out existing residents, and permanently removing affordable housing units from the community's supply.

[2:09:42] or two, the property declines through deferred maintenance as an owner realizes gains without reinvesting,

[2:09:50] resulting in substandard conditions and property value decline.

[2:09:55] Alternatively, if an entity committed to affordability such as a non-profit,

[2:09:59] a government agency or a subsidized private owner,

[2:10:02] recapitalizes the property, rents remain affordable to low and moderate income households,

[2:10:07] while the property is maintained to continue offering a high quality of life and stability to residents.

[2:10:14] This is important because the residents of Amberwood are critical members of our community.

[2:10:22] The Rally Housing Authority has proposed the following.

[2:10:25] That all 340 units will remain affordable for low and moderate income households or 80% of AMI.

[2:10:31] With at least 51% of the units as affordable for low-income housing, low-income households, or 60% of AMI,

[2:10:40] with a maximum of 10% of the units potentially supported by project-based voucher subsidy.

[2:10:47] They're also committed to minimizing rent increases over time to avoid displacing existing carry residents,

[2:10:54] as well as addressing deferred maintenance and investing in renovations of units as they naturally turn over.

[2:11:02] The assessed value of Amber Wood at Lockmeer is $64 million, $485,515, with the $20,27

[2:11:11] carry municipal property tax of $236,984.

[2:11:17] While there are currently property tax exemption avenues that any owner could pursue,

[2:11:23] this resolution would allow RHA tax exemption through the Housing Authority's statute.

[2:11:33] This is an important distinction because RHA's operating status is clearly defined under state law,

[2:11:40] whereas recently publicized charitable housing loophole could be available to any property owner regardless of affordability commitments.

[2:11:51] We have heard us say that partnerships are at the heart of Kerry's community plan and housing strategy.

[2:11:56] This proposal leverages a regional public partnership, and for there's several

[2:12:02] imagined-carry community-plan-live policies and carry-plan housing goals, including

[2:12:07] maintaining neighborhood character, encouraging the provision of affordable dwellings,

[2:12:13] pursuing regional and non-profit partnerships to meet housing needs,

[2:12:17] and ensuring that all carry residents can enjoy the full benefit of carries

[2:12:21] high quality of life. Please, please. This concludes my presentation. A representative from the

[2:12:29] Rousey Raleigh Housing Authority is here to address this request and following the public

[2:12:34] caring I'm available to answer any questions you may have. Thank you, Ms. Wheeler.

[2:12:42] Good evening. Mayor and members

[2:12:46] the town council and citizens of Kerry. My name is Ashley Lomus Johnson. I am the CEO

[2:12:57] of the Raleigh Housing Authority. I'm going to just talk a little bit about the housing

[2:13:01] authority and about what our intentions are. I think Heather gave a really good presentation

[2:13:12] and explanation for what we are trying to do.

[2:13:19] As the staff person said, the rally housing authority is required by state law to request

[2:13:28] authorization for this acquisition, and that's why we are here.

[2:13:36] The rally housing authority has served Wake County residents for decades.

[2:13:43] We all of our programs, the Section 8 Program, Public Housing Program, and other housing programs,

[2:13:52] a non-subsidized programs, have a preference for residents of all of Wake County.

[2:13:58] So we have served, and we currently serve households throughout the county, from without the county.

[2:14:06] and also within the city limits of carry.

[2:14:11] We have a 400 carry residents on our waiting lists,

[2:14:17] and we serve 211 households in carry through the section 8 voucher program.

[2:14:25] The housing authority has a strategic plan adopted in 2024.

[2:14:30] to that includes developing, redeveloping our properties into mixed-income housing units,

[2:14:40] but also to acquire through acquisition, acquire properties so that we can preserve the affordable,

[2:14:49] naturally occurring, affordable housing.

[2:14:52] The folks who live in these properties are people who work, who are teachers.

[2:15:00] Child care workers, and other essential workers who work in carry. And we want to make sure that those people who are living there now will continue to be able to live there through the housing authorities efforts.

[2:15:20] The Raleigh Housing Authority is not completely unique, but of over 3,000 housing authorities in the United States.

[2:15:31] We are one of less than 1% of the housing authorities in the nation that has a standard and poor credit rating of a plus, not triple A like the city of Kerry or Raleigh.

[2:15:47] But this allows us to do things that we haven't been able to do in the past and that many cities can't do.

[2:15:54] We are able to invest in

[2:15:58] Naturally occurring affordable housing to save

[2:16:02] Those properties and preserve them for use by folks who now live in them.

[2:16:11] And that is what we intend to do.

[2:16:13] And we are here to keep Amber Woods in the way it is now in the people that it serves.

[2:16:25] Nothing will change.

[2:16:30] Please, please, or almost nothing.

[2:16:34] The rents will stay the same.

[2:16:36] The lease will stay the same.

[2:16:39] The management company will stay the same.

[2:16:42] The feel of living there will stay the same.

[2:16:47] Please allow us to hear the speaker thank you.

[2:16:52] What did you?

[2:16:52] What may change is the fact that we will have and will be able to have the resources to address the deferred maintenance and improve the property above the conditions that they are there now.

[2:17:11] So I will end my remarks there, and if there are questions, I will entertain them, or my colleague.

[2:17:21] I would direct of acquisitions and strategic partnerships, Jason Morrell, will assist with some of the...

[2:17:27] And our process is to hold a public hearing. We have questions for you after the public hearing.

[2:17:32] Okay, thank you. So now is the time for the public hearing. I'll call on the clerk to share the number of written comments,

[2:17:38] call on any red street speakers?

[2:17:42] Yes.

[2:17:44] We are going to first start with the speaker that's on the line,

[2:17:49] Cassie Holt, Cassie, if you can.

[2:17:51] Are not going to do written comments?

[2:17:53] Yes, they didn't give me the total, so I need to go ahead.

[2:17:55] Go ahead.

[2:17:56] So we'll let Cassie go first.

[2:17:58] He's on the line, and then we'll do the written comments

[2:18:02] and then in person speaking.

[2:18:03] Okay, very good.

[2:18:05] Cassie will, you confirm that you can hear us

[2:18:07] Thank you, your name.

[2:18:09] Yes, good evening. My name is Kathy Holtz.

[2:18:13] I'm a resident of Lockmear.

[2:18:16] I've had the privilege of growing up in Carrey,

[2:18:20] having attended Davis Drive Elementary,

[2:18:22] West Lake Middle School and Middle Creek High School.

[2:18:25] I moved away from Carrey for college in law school,

[2:18:29] but after living in Raleigh,

[2:18:30] decided to purchase my first single family home in Lockmear

[2:18:35] earlier this year. I've worked extremely hard and extremely proud of this achievement. However,

[2:18:43] the proposed resolution regarding rally housing authorities' purchase of Amber Wood at Lockmear

[2:18:49] is concerning to me on many levels.

[2:18:54] First, the proposed R8HA resolution locked carry residents

[2:18:58] into a 30-year commitment that helps the city of Raleigh to the detriment of the town of Carrey.

[2:19:04] All current RHA developments are within Raleigh, which makes sense because RHA's board of commissioners are appointed by the Raleigh Nayer.

[2:19:17] A quick review of RHA's website shows that the organization's goal is to help residents of the city of Raleigh.

[2:19:26] Unlike Raleigh residents who can hold the mayor of Raleigh accountable for her appointments

[2:19:32] to the RHA board, the town of Kiri, and residents of Kiri have no such appointment power

[2:19:38] to ensure that the town's interest are represented in RHA's decisions.

[2:19:45] Having recently moved to Kiri from a property that was adjacent to an RHA development,

[2:19:55] I can confirm that this decision will affect property values and resellabilities of homes in this area.

[2:20:06] Recently trying to sell a town home, I had several out-of-state buyers interested in purchasing the property until they found out that there was an RHA development across the street.

[2:20:18] Lastly, I want to conclude with urging this council to take a moment to seriously consider

[2:20:23] the circumstances surrounding this resolution.

[2:20:27] A lot of things have happened recently.

[2:20:29] The state auditor's office, the findings from Wambalban, Dickinson, regarding serious

[2:20:36] operational failure and lack of transparency.

[2:20:40] It was very concerning to me that I could not find information regarding this RHA resolution

[2:20:48] on the town of Kerry Web site.

[2:20:51] It is unclear whether there have been studies or whether anything has been done to consider

[2:20:56] the property values of residents living in this highly residential area.

[2:21:02] And with undermined confidence and the completeness and reliability of the information provided by this council,

[2:21:11] I urge the council to, at a minimum, pause, take a moment and delay the vote to ensure that such a major decision is not rash.

[2:21:22] The timing, the office,

[2:21:27] the timing, the optics, the optics, the lack of information could not be more

[2:21:32] assessed. And I urge the Council to vote no or the minimum delay this vote so that further

[2:21:39] due diligence can be made. Thank you.

[2:21:48] We had 144 written comments. They were provided to the Council beforehand through email at

[2:21:56] desk tonight and also online. And then we'll go to our in-person speakers and start with

[2:22:02] the people who signed up for Pollock's Beaks Out first. So I'm going to start with Nancy

[2:22:06] Kaye, Fall of Island of Shaw.

[2:22:14] I am not a professional public speaker. I am nervous. So if you can bear

[2:22:22] with me, I'd appreciate it.

[2:22:26] So good evening. My name is Nancy Joyner Kaye and I live at one of

[2:22:31] I want you to know that I love the town of Carey and I am excited about the mixed income

[2:22:40] housing that includes market rate housing that is currently under consideration under the

[2:22:51] Imagine Carey Plan.

[2:22:54] I'm excited that a lot of these projects are public and privately financed.

[2:23:01] You couldn't ask for a better mix, you have low income housing, you have market rate housing on the same site, you have a community coming together, private and public to finance it.

[2:23:17] This is the ideal model for housing options.

[2:23:23] But tonight, I would like to address the tax exemption requested by Raleigh, or rather Raleigh Housing Authority.

[2:23:33] Staff stated that private ownership brings either higher rents or deferred maintenance,

[2:23:42] and that the Raleigh Housing Authority ownership prevents both.

[2:23:48] Specifically, for Amber Wood, the deferred maintenance claim is simply not true, okay, and you need to listen.

[2:24:00] Amber Wood sits inside a lockmeer homeowner's association.

[2:24:05] Subject to the same architectural and landscaping covenants as every lockmeer home.

[2:24:12] for a private owner, private.

[2:24:16] Those covenants have teeth.

[2:24:19] Unresolved violations bring fines,

[2:24:22] and fines become leans.

[2:24:25] Deferred maintenance is not an option,

[2:24:29] which is why this apartment complex

[2:24:31] looks so awesome,

[2:24:34] despite the fact that it is 35 years old.

[2:24:38] Since 1991,

[2:24:40] through every owner, Amber Wood has met lockmeers standards, because the

[2:24:47] covenants run with the deed, and you need to understand what that means. It

[2:24:53] runs with the deed, and it binds any private owner. They would not bind the

[2:25:02] housing authority. Now consider the Rally Housing Authority created by Rally in 1938. It is controlled by Rally. All nine commissioners appointed by the Rally mayor. The Rally mayor, not the Rally City Council. They're appointed specifically by the Rally mayor.

[2:25:29] Like carry, it is a municipal corporation with immunity.

[2:25:39] Let that sink in.

[2:25:41] I shall repeat it.

[2:25:42] It is a municipal corporation like carry with immunity.

[2:25:47] North Carolina says plainly that no judgment against it can become a lean on its property.

[2:25:55] This tax exemption is the first step toward the Raleigh Housing Authority operating as a housing authority inside carry.

[2:26:15] If you approved this tax exemption, you would essentially be creating a town within a town.

[2:26:23] One that covenants and carry ordinances, they cannot touch them.

[2:26:31] And you need to be mindful of that.

[2:26:34] By staff's own admission, margins, your staff would be thin

[2:26:40] once this converts to low and moderate income housing.

[2:26:45] With captains, when costs rise,

[2:26:49] maintenance is the only place that gives.

[2:26:54] That's the only place they can cut, an owner immune to lockmeers, covenants, and the town

[2:27:03] of carry ordinances could remove the landscaping and features that are costly as to maintain.

[2:27:12] A change the appearance of the buildings,

[2:27:16] changed the level of maintenance of the buildings,

[2:27:18] With little consequence, please let me finish one more sentence, I have to even

[2:27:26] I'm speaking slow. I'm speaking slow. I'm speaking slow. It's you understand

[2:27:29] Even the mayor has publicly voiced concerns about long-term maintenance under the RHA

[2:27:36] staff and the mayor agree

[2:27:38] Sir that

[2:27:40] Ambrer to it is naturally occurring affordable housing

[2:27:43] 35 years old and an excellent condition with updated interiors

[2:27:48] to pools, clubhouses, dog parts, et cetera.

[2:27:51] But under our age control, 14, 9% of the units

[2:27:56] would eventually go to rally residents

[2:27:59] and current residents above the income level,

[2:28:03] currently living there, would not be able to renew their lease.

[2:28:07] Carrying residents would be displaced

[2:28:09] from one of our few affordable communities.

[2:28:14] In the end, this tax exemption is unnecessary.

[2:28:18] The housing is already affordable, and the covenants already keep it well maintained.

[2:28:25] Granting it cheats carry out a $6.5 million over 30 years, and the county out of $8.5 million,

[2:28:34] also $3.8 million.

[2:28:35] Well, just a minute, puts a town, just a minute, I've never been here.

[2:28:42] I've never been here.

[2:28:43] It puts a town inside our town.

[2:28:45] It displaces Carrie residents in favor of Raleigh residents.

[2:28:50] I am asking you to show up.

[2:28:53] Ladies and gentlemen, I am asking you to show up for the Carrie residents

[2:28:58] and let the RHA address its housing needs not in the town of Carrie.

[2:29:07] You owe your allegiance, you owe your allegiance to the taxpayers and residents

[2:29:14] of the town of Kerry.

[2:29:16] Ms. K. If you, I have one more sentence.

[2:29:18] I've let you go over for two of you.

[2:29:19] If you cannot bring yourself to vote this down today.

[2:29:23] Ladies and gentlemen, please.

[2:29:26] I ask that you take that you table the vote for further study.

[2:29:32] We have had very little notice.

[2:29:34] Thank you. 13 days.

[2:29:35] Thank you. Please, please, Mr. Ray, thank you.

[2:29:46] Speaker is willing to solve.

[2:29:49] Miss Shaw.

[2:29:51] Miss Shaw, you're next.

[2:29:53] Paul, about you, Lena Morgan.

[2:29:55] I would ask please stick to the five-minute timer.

[2:29:58] We have a long night ahead of us.

[2:30:24] Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Weinbrecht and Kerry Town Council. Thank you for letting me speak. My name

[2:30:31] is Lynn Shaw, and I live in Gary, and the residence is 95, and the residence of Washington

[2:30:39] is 2001. I am speaking on my own. Okay, this is my own personal opinion. Okay. I do have a couple

[2:30:49] ideas. I am asking the town of Kerry Town Council to vote no, on the resolution to allow

[2:30:55] probably housing authority to operate in carry in a choir

[2:30:59] of Amberwood apartments at Lachmer.

[2:31:01] Amberwood apartments is already renting is naturally

[2:31:04] a current affordable housing known as Nella.

[2:31:07] I know is a subset of unsubsidized, not subsidized housing

[2:31:12] that remains cheaper because it's specific rates.

[2:31:15] Amberwood at Lachmer is within the Lachmer Association

[2:31:19] and it does have to buy by the Lachmer

[2:31:21] architectural standards and specifications, just like me and resident.

[2:31:26] I am asking the town of Kerry Town Council and planning department to not allow a

[2:31:32] potential loss of the Kerry tax revenue to rally housing authority.

[2:31:37] Instead, please reallocate the hundreds of thousands and potentially millions of Kerry

[2:31:43] tax revenue dollars to developing a veterans billet on the site of the Epic Games property

[2:31:50] formerly known as the Curie Town Center,

[2:31:52] property that is soon and still enveloped.

[2:31:57] And article published in the American Legion,

[2:31:59] and June 23rd, 2026, reports that there are over 32,000

[2:32:03] homeless veterans.

[2:32:05] The Charlotte today published on July 16th, 2026,

[2:32:10] a tunnel to towers, excuse me, we got a call.

[2:32:12] Foundation, the TeleTower's Foundation

[2:32:15] has begun construction on a new veterans village

[2:32:17] that will provide not only stable housing but also comprehensive support services designed to help service numbers rebuild their lives.

[2:32:26] The town of Kerry could seek a partnership with Epic Games and Tunnel to Towers and the HUD VASH that's VASH to build a veteran's village.

[2:32:38] Part of the partnership deal could allow for a part of the parcel to be developed for Epic Games or Print office space.

[2:32:44] I don't know, maybe call it Epic 10 Veterans Village, you know.

[2:32:52] And what's the Veterans Village?

[2:32:53] The Foundation Bill's Transitional Employment Housing Community

[2:32:56] across the United States, featuring on-site,

[2:33:00] supportive medical and mental health services.

[2:33:03] The Tunnels of Towers Foundation operates a dedicated

[2:33:05] batch services team that collaborates with the United States

[2:33:09] Department of Veterans Affairs, Department of HUD,

[2:33:12] and the local public housing authorities to help homeless veterans secure permanent housing.

[2:33:18] This project could align with the town of Kerry 2040 and imagine plan.

[2:33:24] So once again, I am asking the town of Kerry town council to vote no,

[2:33:28] the resolution to the rally housing authority to operate and carry.

[2:33:33] And thanks so much for listening.

[2:33:40] Our next speaker is Elena Morgan by followed by Thomas Kellener.

[2:33:44] Good

[2:33:51] evening. My name is Dr. Elena Morgan and I live across from the Amberwood apartment

[2:33:56] buildings in Lockmear. I am here tonight to strongly oppose the sale of the property to

[2:34:04] the Raleigh Housing Authority. Before I get into the specifics of what I want to say,

[2:34:11] I'd like to take a moment and say the optics of this situation are catastrophic for all of you

[2:34:17] individually. If I were to bill my patients and Medicare, who was who why bill for my services,

[2:34:30] 24 million dollars in excess of the services I had provided to my patients, I would lose my

[2:34:37] license and I would go to jail. I would be on the front cover of every newspaper in this country

[2:34:44] as a villainous physician, the fraud that has been propagated by the members of this council

[2:34:53] seems to wash over you. Your faces are impressive. You've committed crimes. Crimes. Significant.

[2:35:05] Financial malfeasance. Let that sink in. You are now turning to face, carry residents,

[2:35:13] many of whom are telling you that giving away $200,000 a year in tax revenue.

[2:35:23] Let's remember what tax revenue is. Tax payer dollars. What does that mean?

[2:35:31] Money people have earned in their jobs and been forced by you to give to the government in good faith.

[2:35:41] that you have taken and you're asking if you can give it away to a municipality that is not

[2:35:49] answerable to us.

[2:36:00] Each one of you will gladly have to stand for re-election sooner or

[2:36:05] later. I genuinely support women and government. I'm glad to say a panel full of women who are

[2:36:25] are elected, Bella, you are in my district, to represent the welfare of the people who live

[2:36:33] in that area. Amber, what apartment buildings is fine, leave it alone.

[2:36:47] I will end with

[2:36:48] this one extraordinarily important point. When I reviewed the crime statistics for every

[2:36:56] strongly housing authority building within its jurisdiction.

[2:37:01] The violent crime recorded by police in Raleigh in the immediate quarter mile around

[2:37:08] those apartments exceeded national averages by staggering numbers.

[2:37:14] Should I tell you what they were?

[2:37:20] Drive by shootings.

[2:37:22] Great. Intentional homicide.

[2:37:28] The sexual assault of a child at gunpoint. In the daytime. Near the street.

[2:37:34] Not by a family member. Do you know what that means? Street crime, the likes of which carry cannot comprehend.

[2:37:43] I moved here from Atlanta, and I can tell you, even in the areas where taxpayers feel

[2:37:50] buffered, from crime, it will arrive on your doorstep.

[2:37:58] And I will tell you, the ballot box

[2:38:01] will arrive on yours. Vote? No.

[2:38:22] Our next speaker is Thomas Volvai, Candace Demattis.

[2:38:31] My name is Tom Keller, her IML, resident of Lockmeer.

[2:38:36] I've been in Carries since 1992.

[2:38:41] Although I do not have a Southern accent,

[2:38:43] you can tell them from the Boston area.

[2:38:47] I was born in Beaford, South Carolina,

[2:38:50] so that qualifies me to be here.

[2:38:52] So with that said,

[2:38:55] I mentioned that I'm from the Boston area.

[2:38:57] And my personal life story is I grew up under the Cambridge Housing Authority in Boston.

[2:39:09] Similar projects, we call them projects, similar arrangements to this proposed arrangement,

[2:39:17] similar situations, similar wanting to do good for the community,

[2:39:23] and then ramped mismanagement.

[2:39:28] That mismanagement caused a lot of grief on my family.

[2:39:35] I have scars to approve that it was mismanaged.

[2:39:40] I have a stab wound.

[2:39:42] And that is something that I don't want anywhere

[2:39:46] in our carry community, especially managed by a housing authority

[2:39:52] and a housing authority that is not within the care limits and not controlled by care.

[2:40:00] Now I know other folks have gone over the money, the 219 by 30 years, 6.5 million adjusted

[2:40:10] for inflation up to 11 million and if you take the other numbers and say, well actually

[2:40:16] The inflation adjustment of 2%, it should be 5%, it just goes up into astronomical numbers.

[2:40:27] But I came to carry 92, like I said, I worked my way through carry in different neighborhoods.

[2:40:34] And my whole goal was to live at Lockmeyer, to live in that environment.

[2:40:41] I think I deserve that right.

[2:40:43] I think I deserve to preserve that, right?

[2:40:47] Amber, what itself is a giveback where we provide, not subsidized housing for honest people

[2:40:57] to make a living to grow and carry.

[2:40:59] We provide that already.

[2:41:00] There's no reason to remove this.

[2:41:05] And I wanted to say things like, well, I'm a disabled veteran, which I am.

[2:41:10] I have struggled, I've seen what these housing authorities who present, you know, delusions

[2:41:21] of grandeur and what they actually deliver.

[2:41:25] I've seen the rats and the sewers, I've seen trash piled up as high as the second story

[2:41:31] within the project I've lived in.

[2:41:33] I've seen the riot police come in every Friday and Saturday night and throw tear gas to where we have to close our windows and we can't go outside.

[2:41:44] These are all places that are managed by the housing authority who I don't even think is in here in the room anymore to hear these comments.

[2:41:54] So, I may be speaking on that, but yeah, that's my observation and that's when I'm going to stand on.

[2:42:03] I do know through articles within different papers and news feeds and all that,

[2:42:12] that the rally housing authority and the current owners have bragged to say,

[2:42:16] well, we don't really need your approval.

[2:42:19] We can go ahead with this without your approval.

[2:42:21] So then don't give it to them, don't give them the tax break, which is what they probably need and they desire.

[2:42:29] Let them do what they want to do if that's what they can do and do it.

[2:42:34] I guarantee you they won't go ahead if you don't approve this and give them the tax break.

[2:42:41] After all my years of service through the military, I think I deserve and I think my community deserves

[2:42:49] And I think Kerry deserves your consideration in this issue.

[2:42:54] Just don't give them the authority.

[2:42:58] That's all I can say.

[2:42:59] Except for this is financial bad for Kerry.

[2:43:02] It's very stressful for the current Amber Woods residents.

[2:43:06] Who eventually would be kicked out?

[2:43:08] And I know something up now.

[2:43:10] And the surrounding thousands of Kerry residents

[2:43:14] to support your, what we have here in Carey.

[2:43:22] I think we know that the word transparency came by tonight.

[2:43:27] And I think this is your moment.

[2:43:28] You want to, you want to make things right.

[2:43:31] Be transparent about this, and not vote for it.

[2:43:35] Thank you.

[2:43:46] Our next speaker is Candice Demadas,

[2:43:49] followed by stormy forte.

[2:44:01] Who's after?

[2:44:02] So Candice, then stormy, and Paula, and China, and then Sina.

[2:44:09] So it's Candice here.

[2:44:12] Okay, who's the next speaker?

[2:44:14] Story.

[2:44:15] Or tape?

[2:44:16] Paula, Bob Paula.

[2:44:18] The stormy here.

[2:44:21] Next speaker.

[2:44:22] Paula.

[2:44:29] Good evening.

[2:44:32] I am a resident of Kerry.

[2:44:33] My name's Paula Mansino.

[2:44:35] I live on Franklin Heights Road.

[2:44:37] and Amber Wood is adjacent to my neighborhood. I live off of Piny Plains.

[2:44:46] Ms. Donna over here is a resident. How many years? 40 years. Her husband came to the same town

[2:44:56] and insisted that they paid the road before they built Amber Wood.

[2:45:00] It was dirt. She worked for the state, her husband worked for the state, her son worked for the state. He had to beg and plead for them to keep the trees up for the buffer swear, deers can live in the woods. I make $15.50 an hour. I teach preschool. My husband works hard. I have a son on the spectrum. I don't need to worry about what's going to happen behind those woods.

[2:45:26] to the people that live there. Now to miss Donna should have to put up a fence.

[2:45:32] She's widow. Her son has some needs. She shouldn't have to worry.

[2:45:41] Her husband helped make that area as beautiful as it is because he had to come here and tell you people how to go by the laws.

[2:45:49] that the developers have to put up a stop sign and a sidewalk, and they have to pay

[2:45:56] the road. This is not rocket science. It's called legal zoning protocols.

[2:46:06] The presentation

[2:46:07] neglected to mention the Wake County taxes that Raleigh would be exempt from, which

[2:46:15] I think is a lot more than $200 in something thousand dollars per year.

[2:46:20] Okay.

[2:46:20] I'm sure one of you knows the number.

[2:46:24] Okay.

[2:46:25] 725,000 times 30 years.

[2:46:28] I'm not a statistician, but I know that's a lot of money.

[2:46:33] I love Kerry.

[2:46:35] How much?

[2:46:36] 21 million dollars.

[2:46:37] Why don't you all pay that?

[2:46:38] Okay.

[2:46:39] You write us a check.

[2:46:40] Okay.

[2:46:41] Get out to check folks.

[2:46:43] God bless me.

[2:46:43] Let me be nice. Okay. I love Kerry. I love their towns people. They're hard working.

[2:46:50] They're kind and they're honest people. They're from all over the world, by the way.

[2:46:56] Okay. I'm here to speak my peace. There's neighbors in my area that are disabled,

[2:47:01] that are veterans that have adult children on the spectrum.

[2:47:05] And they shouldn't have to be afraid to walk down the street because we're going to put in

[2:47:10] subsidized housing in our backyard.

[2:47:13] My husband works a long hours.

[2:47:15] I should not be afraid who's walking down my street.

[2:47:18] My son should not have to be afraid because he's on the autism spectrum.

[2:47:22] Somebody might run him down.

[2:47:23] We've got one lady in the neighborhood.

[2:47:25] We're going to catch her.

[2:47:29] I want our tax dollars to stay in carry.

[2:47:34] So we can hire more police officers.

[2:47:36] So people could call 911 and not be put on hold for God's sake.

[2:47:43] How many people have called 911 in the town of Cary and can't get somebody to answer?

[2:47:49] Where is the money for that?

[2:47:54] I do not want you to vote yes on this

[2:48:00] The tax money deserves to stay in the town of Cary.

[2:48:05] There are people living in our community now, it used to be Swift Creek and then it became

[2:48:10] Tonic Care and everyone thought that would be wonderful.

[2:48:12] De-duke's raising our rates, y'all approve that, okay, the water's going up, there we go.

[2:48:19] You said we're going to have our taxes up 3.5, well we talked it down to 2.5, thank you, but

[2:48:24] no thank you.

[2:48:25] Last time I checked, I didn't get a 2.5% increase in my wages and in my neighbors' social

[2:48:33] security in those veterans benefits. Did you get a 2.5 raise? You did. Good for you. I'm sure you'll put some to charity.

[2:48:46] Okay. The wealthy people living in carry and all of us other folks living in carry do not want folks that need affordable housing to go without that needs to be clear here.

[2:49:00] No one is here putting people down that live in a place that has affordable housing, okay?

[2:49:08] I am speaking from experience. I lived near the projects in St. Paul, Minnesota.

[2:49:13] And I know what section eight subsidized housing looks like.

[2:49:19] And it's scary. And it's not everybody that lives there.

[2:49:22] Only takes about 10% to take the whole place down.

[2:49:25] and you are going to lose money if you approve it because guess what people are going to

[2:49:30] be leaving in droves is that what you want for the town of carry and see no okay I'm

[2:49:35] a six so I want you to realize that if you allow that to happen you will see higher crime

[2:49:41] rates you will see drug related crimes no one wants to talk about the drugs but that comes

[2:49:46] with it I'm as expired last time and let's remember the child abuse in neglect I'm prayerful

[2:49:53] that the town of Carrey, God bless you, it's true, we'll make the right decision and not sell amberwood

[2:50:00] because we have serious concerns.

[2:50:03] Some people like myself, our home property values are all the only investment I have.

[2:50:11] I'm going to be 55 years old.

[2:50:13] I would like to stay in my house until I'm no longer alive.

[2:50:18] I'd like my son to inherit that house.

[2:50:20] I would like my son to be able to keep the property value so he can have something to live off of and not be paying for subsidized housing.

[2:50:30] Thank you. God bless you.

[2:50:36] Our next speaker is Tim Brock.

[2:50:47] All about Thomas Hozy.

[2:50:57] Good evening. My name is Tim Brock.

[2:51:00] I am also a resident of Lockmear and a resident of Kerry.

[2:51:04] I came tonight to voice my support for affordable housing and the resolution before you right now.

[2:51:12] I think it's really important as a community benefit that we have affordable housing and I think carry

[2:51:17] recognizes that as it's in a lot of our plans and our visioning.

[2:51:22] I also think that it's important to keep these wonderful people in place that are already here at Amberwood.

[2:51:28] Many might be here tonight.

[2:51:29] I think there are critical members and valuable members of our community and I think we need

[2:51:34] to support them staying here so they can work and engage in living carry and don't have to

[2:51:39] make long commutes to stay part of our community.

[2:51:42] I also think in terms of when you think about affordable housing, it's also people who have already

[2:51:48] living here who maybe have parents that can't afford to come and live in carry and they need

[2:51:53] a place to stay nearby and they can sort of engage in affordable housing.

[2:51:58] And I know that's been something that over the years has been an issue with my family.

[2:52:03] And so I think it's really important that we have affordable housing and carry.

[2:52:08] In terms of the cost proposition, I think it's this is a very good cost proposition for affordable

[2:52:13] housing.

[2:52:14] When you think about what it would take to buy land, construct and develop affordable housing

[2:52:19] in the maintenance cost, that is way more expensive than for going to $100,000 in taxes

[2:52:26] a year.

[2:52:27] I think this is really important and really worth

[2:52:29] worth doing because it is a fraction of the cost

[2:52:32] to get affordable housing that we want to need and carry.

[2:52:38] In terms of community character,

[2:52:40] the Intuence of Community Character,

[2:52:42] Amber Wood is already there,

[2:52:45] and they've been wonderful neighbors

[2:52:46] and those residential stay in place.

[2:52:48] And I think that it'll continue to create a great,

[2:52:51] and it'll continue to,

[2:52:54] it'll continue to create great neighbors

[2:52:56] and a great place to be.

[2:52:57] And so I think in terms of this, my biggest concern is that if the deal were to fall through an RAHA doesn't get this property and a predatory development company comes and looks as an extract of opportunity to disinvest and to grade the property.

[2:53:12] And if we see a dilapidated property then that really will impact community character.

[2:53:16] So I have concerns about that.

[2:53:22] So to reaffirm I am a locker resident and I am very much in support of affordable housing in this proposition

[2:53:29] And I want to thank you for your time this evening.

[2:53:38] Our next speaker is Thomas Hosing followed by Reynolds Nippie.

[2:53:42] I'm sorry could you repeat the name Thomas Hosing?

[2:53:45] Yes followed by Reynolds.

[2:53:47] Okay.

[2:53:50] Mayor and Council people, I am Thomas, I'm Thomas, I'm Thomas, I live in Carrey homeowner

[2:53:57] there in the Winston Ridge Development. I had two have concerns with the RHA proposal for

[2:54:03] the public housing in Ambulance. This would eliminate approximately 236,000 to the city over

[2:54:10] 500,000 of the county property tax annually, all while property tax and carity was just increased

[2:54:15] by the Council, 8%, another three and a half percent by the county.

[2:54:20] However, the needs for amberwood services would continue but unfunded.

[2:54:25] Property values in the fabric of the community are great concern.

[2:54:30] Neither RHA or WAKE housing authority, oh no, operate apartments in carry.

[2:54:35] They primarily use vouchers for single units, the owner pays the property tax, and hundreds

[2:54:41] of units are not concentrated in one location.

[2:54:46] Large scale public housing in carry would be a first, an experiment, if you will, without

[2:54:51] precedent.

[2:54:52] In fact, there is only one publicly owned complex of comparable size in concentration in the

[2:54:59] entire state of North Carolina, and that is McDougal Terrace in Durham.

[2:55:03] This large complex and Jay Scenario experienced dramatically high crimes, as well as many associated

[2:55:10] challenges, violent crimes. Comprehensive studies that are not limited to just low-income areas

[2:55:16] and actually distinguish between affluent areas and low-income indicate when public housing

[2:55:22] incurs in affluent areas such as carry, property values do fall. They go down, as opposed to

[2:55:30] when built in lower-income areas, where values can remain stable or actually increase. A few examples

[2:55:36] of comprehensive studies that make this finding include a 2016, a 2019 Stanford University study,

[2:55:45] a 2016 Harvard University study with work noted economist Rebecca Diamond and Tim

[2:55:52] Quaid, as well as a 2016 urban studies that specifically focused on the Charlotte area, just

[2:55:59] the name of few. Additionally, the City Council has no future input into this experiment.

[2:56:04] RHA can make any changes they choose at any time without regard to how this impacts the surrounding areas or the required city service levels.

[2:56:15] According to RAL on WRAL on July 16, Wake County and various rally agencies are seeking to house 400 homeless people.

[2:56:25] Each year, they have a budget of 22 million, which is great, so they will be housed.

[2:56:29] Would RHA unilaterally decide to house them at Amberwood?

[2:56:34] It is definitely more than possible.

[2:56:36] Again, carry council would not be a decision-maker on this.

[2:56:39] This is not a carry-marigold development model, which is great.

[2:56:44] It's a very different approach.

[2:56:47] Amberwood does a pride, naturally caring, affordable housing,

[2:56:50] many as many have already stated.

[2:56:52] Changing this to public subsidized housing will not add any affordable units.

[2:56:58] This is already occurring has been stated 50 to 52 percent low-mod AMI and 96 percent

[2:57:04] occupied. However, if approved, it would remove needed property tax.

[2:57:11] Negatively impact adjacent property values supported by comprehensive studies that conclude this

[2:57:16] in affluent areas. Remove Council as a decision maker. Council's responsibility,

[2:57:21] as you know, is to promote stable home values, public safety,

[2:57:25] risk or responsibility and ensure the continuity of the fabric of the community for existing

[2:57:31] resonance. This is why we elected you and purchased homes in carry rather than less expensive

[2:57:37] homes in other communities. Removing 340 units from the tax roll while taxes increased on existing

[2:57:44] homeowners jeopardizing existing property values and eliminating oversight simply does not fulfill

[2:57:51] of the risk responsibility owed to existing carry residents.

[2:57:55] The intentions are great, but the downside at this location,

[2:58:00] at this concentrated size, at this fiscal juncture,

[2:58:04] are just not in the best instruments

[2:58:05] of current carry residents.

[2:58:08] I would urge you to please vote no on this.

[2:58:12] Thank you very much, I appreciate your time.

[2:58:21] Our next speaker is Rinal.

[2:58:25] Okay, followed by Eric Northeine.

[2:58:33] A lot of paper.

[2:58:34] There you go.

[2:58:34] Oh, by the way.

[2:58:36] That's what you're on.

[2:58:40] Good evening, Mr. Mayor.

[2:58:43] And council members.

[2:58:46] That gentleman was right.

[2:58:48] A lot of you folks are somewhat on the record

[2:58:51] of being in favor of affordable housing

[2:58:54] and an authority.

[2:58:58] Don't vote your dream.

[2:58:59] Vote your reality.

[2:59:00] If you please.

[2:59:01] The reality, this gentleman just gave you the reality, and it's not as good as a dream.

[2:59:09] Everywhere is a success, and it's someone before me said it.

[2:59:12] But you're alone.

[2:59:15] Okay.

[2:59:16] Now I do have about two minutes, maybe or less.

[2:59:23] And it's in big print, so it'll go real quick, and it's only two sides.

[2:59:29] Okay, comments on the rally housing authority coming to carry with the rally program.

[2:59:37] Number one, this is a back door entry.

[2:59:40] You folks have been talking about tonight, about transparency.

[2:59:44] This is a back door entry.

[2:59:45] Carry has not initiated a housing authority, and it's not therefore debated it publicly or

[2:59:52] a thought of vote, a approval of our citizens to undertake such a costly program.

[2:59:58] We may be in favor of it.

[3:00:00] But this is a backdoor effort. Number two, North Carolina State Auditor, a part of me for talking about what's happened in the last six days.

[3:00:16] North Carolina State Auditor, only a week ago released a 2600 page investigative report detailing, to quote WRAL, widespread financial best management within the Tana Carey.

[3:00:32] Number three, again I quote WRAL's article, quote Extravagant Spending Investigation

[3:00:41] Reviews, Curries, Fund Balance, Cell Ballot Policy Specials, in fiscal 2023, and fiscal 2024,

[3:00:52] and a quote.

[3:00:55] Number four, if members of the town council of Kerry vote yes, on this agenda item

[3:01:01] tonight, your U.S. will reduce carries real estate income tax, carries income, pounds

[3:01:09] income, it was put up tonight, about $130,000 plus dollars, just the first year.

[3:01:18] Because the rally housing authority, as you have heard, and no, is tax exempt.

[3:01:26] Number five, I ask you, each and every member of this town council.

[3:01:31] Please vote no, on Raleigh's request.

[3:01:36] Thank you.

[3:01:44] Our next speaker is Eric Northheim, all of our Roy Miller.

[3:02:00] Hello, my name is Eric Northheim.

[3:02:02] I've been a carrier resident for more than 43 years now.

[3:02:06] In fact, I've been a lock mirror resident for 39 years.

[3:02:09] I've seen the area quite a bit.

[3:02:11] I am on the Board of Directors of the Lockmeer Homeowners Association, so I'm going to give you the view of our HOA.

[3:02:22] I appreciate you letting me stand up here and address all of you and speak on behalf of the Lockmeer Homeowners Association.

[3:02:31] We represent about 1,966 properties and owners, including our billet.

[3:02:40] We do recognize the importance of affordable housing and carry.

[3:02:44] It's very important.

[3:02:46] That's why we've had Amber Wood working as an NOAAH, I guess you call it, for 35 years.

[3:02:54] But, however, we have received quite a bit of feedback from our residents and the overwhelming majority oppose this resolution.

[3:03:04] So, we respectfully ask the council to vote no tonight.

[3:03:09] First, I would like to highlight three concerns.

[3:03:13] I'll try not to cover items that are already been covered, so I'll modify some of the words on here.

[3:03:20] But the things I'd like to talk about are the benefits of the carry, financial impacts, and lack of transparency.

[3:03:29] So first, the benefits of the carry remain very unclear to a lot of us.

[3:03:35] The accelerated timeline has allowed little opportunity to evaluate the long-term impacts of this significant change.

[3:03:43] This resolution would authorize the rally housing authority to obtain jurisdiction and carry and that goes a long way.

[3:03:55] I think even on the slides and we saw at the beginning, we said that the rally housing authority is going to set aside a minimum of 51% of the units as a low income housing.

[3:04:07] What do you think is going to happen to those

[3:04:09] and what residents when their lease comes to you?

[3:04:13] They're not going to qualify for that.

[3:04:16] So they will be displaced, but other people in there.

[3:04:22] So before approving this resolution,

[3:04:24] the council really should have clear answers

[3:04:27] about whether the rally housing authority,

[3:04:29] ownership would change occupancy policies

[3:04:31] and whether current care to residents

[3:04:34] would continue to be served.

[3:04:36] Second, the financial impact deserves careful consideration.

[3:04:42] A lot of the speakers have been up here talking about the reduction in taxes and things

[3:04:47] like that.

[3:04:47] I'm not going to cover all those numbers again, but at the same time that you have reduced

[3:04:53] amounts, you're still, the time is still going to be responsible for providing police,

[3:04:59] fire, transportation, and other municipal services.

[3:05:02] And in fact, there's a lot of research that said that might actually go up based on the use of it.

[3:05:11] So where would that come from? The residents observed and know how this law's gravity would be

[3:05:17] offset in what impact it could have on our own future town services or our property taxes.

[3:05:25] So I think you don't consider that. Then third, the public process is lack transparency.

[3:05:31] I mean, that's just very obvious, but legal notice was issued on July 10th, and that we

[3:05:38] let's less and two weeks for public review, less and two weeks.

[3:05:44] I think you had to over what 144 comments, is that what I heard the number was?

[3:05:49] Neither the locking or association nor neighboring communities received direct notification.

[3:05:54] So we did not get that.

[3:05:56] We found out about it by word of mouth.

[3:05:59] So, I don't think that's a very transparent decision with long-term consequences should include

[3:06:09] meaningful public engagement and really not a rushed process that this is.

[3:06:16] So the resolution tonight is more than just a procedural action and I've read those words

[3:06:22] in from the staff.

[3:06:23] This really could establish a precedent for outside housing authorities to acquire and operate properties and carry without a clear obligation to benefit carry residents.

[3:06:34] So, we're in closing, let's say the Lockmeer Homeowners Association respectfully urges the

[3:06:40] Council to vote no, I would

[3:06:51] reiterate, reiterate also at minimum if you don't vote

[3:06:59] no that you vote to defer this and gather the facts that you have clear answers regarding

[3:07:05] occupancy policies.

[3:07:06] Thank you.

[3:07:07] A thorough financial impact analysis and an open public dialogue with the taxpayers who will

[3:07:11] be affected.

[3:07:12] Thank you.

[3:07:19] Our next speaker is Rory Miller, followed my Mary Kits.

[3:07:28] Hi, my name is Rory Miller, and I'd like most of the people before me.

[3:07:32] I'm a homeowner in Lockham, here.

[3:07:35] I want to start with, I'm not going to focus on the crime and all that.

[3:07:39] Demographic, anything like that, that's outside my purview.

[3:07:42] I want to focus on RHA.

[3:07:43] They were formed in 1938, 88 years ago.

[3:07:47] Today, I don't know that they've ever owned a property outside of Rally City limits.

[3:07:51] Why now? Why are our neighborhood? Why carry?

[3:07:57] I understand the need for affordable housing.

[3:08:00] I've lived in I assume much roughly places than anybody sitting up there right now.

[3:08:07] I've been there.

[3:08:08] I don't judge on it, but there's some concerns for sure.

[3:08:11] I'm going to go back to the whole process.

[3:08:12] I'm going to speed up, so I don't run out of time like everybody else.

[3:08:15] The first notice came out 10 days ago.

[3:08:18] In that notice, I said the carry town council intends to adopt a resolution,

[3:08:22] authorizing the Raleigh Housing Authority to acquire and rehabilitate.

[3:08:25] The word intent is bothersome to me here, you didn't have the public hearing yet, you didn't listen to your constituents and you already made a decision.

[3:08:35] It's not okay. Now there will be people for it and again, that's okay. We all have our opinion and that's what makes the democracy of America.

[3:08:44] I'm here to hear everybody, it is what it is.

[3:08:47] The word intent was bothersome to me because you guys seem to already have your thing and going back to what you campaign on,

[3:08:53] Yes, many campaign on affordable housing.

[3:08:56] Okay, you know, do what you campaign on.

[3:08:59] The document I saw today, dock ID 8650 55,

[3:09:03] attachment resolution was titled the resolution of the

[3:09:06] carry town council authorizing the housing authority of

[3:09:09] the city of Rally to acquire and rehabilitate a certain

[3:09:11] multifamily housing development located in

[3:09:14] carry.

[3:09:15] It states that the housing authority of the city of

[3:09:17] Rally has requested that the town authorized RHA to

[3:09:21] operate and perform its lawful functions within the boundaries

[3:09:23] of the town in connection with the acquisition and rehabilitation by RHA through its nonprofit

[3:09:29] affiliate capital area developments incorporated. That's the first I heard of them. What's

[3:09:35] the relationship? Do you guys all know? I looked it up. I know there was a name change. We'll go to

[3:09:42] the corporate filings. We've got a ton of differentities here. RHA, Rolly Housing Authority, 11 properties

[3:09:48] Please listen, wait county real estate, all in the city of Raleigh.

[3:09:51] RHA Incorporate, Raleigh Housing Authority Incorporate, 15 properties,

[3:09:54] listen, wait county real estate, all in the city of Raleigh.

[3:09:57] Capital area developments incorporating non-profit, 80 properties,

[3:10:01] listen, wait county, all in the city of Raleigh.

[3:10:05] And then we have one for the Raleigh Housing Authority as well.

[3:10:07] I assume it's an office.

[3:10:08] 107 total properties owned by all of these different entities,

[3:10:12] all in Raleigh, zero and carry.

[3:10:13] I think we support the affordable housing.

[3:10:20] I think there's definitely questions of why to push us through in two weeks flat.

[3:10:25] And then every time the information comes out, it's different.

[3:10:28] And frankly, I don't know that I don't need to assume here,

[3:10:33] but I'm not sure if you guys understand the corporate structure of these two different entities.

[3:10:38] So, non-profit, who's buying it, is the non-profit buying it because I'm sure that's going

[3:10:44] to change the way we govern them as far as lock mirror goes, as far as the town of

[3:10:48] carry goes.

[3:10:49] And like many others have said, basically, it seems like Raleigh's going to get their first

[3:10:55] foot in the door.

[3:10:56] Like I said, 88 years, they don't have any properties outside of Raleigh, and we're going

[3:11:00] to be the first.

[3:11:02] So, good or bad, can't tell you, but it'll have every one of your names attached to it,

[3:11:06] If you vote yes on the resolution today, I

[3:11:15] do want to go to one more thing, it kind of

[3:11:19] relates to crime, but not really.

[3:11:21] So federal lawsuit settled October 16, 2019 by RHA, per Fair Housing Project, a project

[3:11:28] of legal aid of North Carolina, RHA settled a federal discrimination complaint filed against

[3:11:33] the RHA, on behalf of a public housing tenant who was a victim of domestic violence.

[3:11:37] The settlement includes a federal consent decree believe to be the first in the country to address the landlord's obligations under the EVAWA violence against women's act

[3:11:48] well

[3:11:49] They did a first don't know that that's a good thing. I feel bad for the woman though. Um, the tenant

[3:11:54] Was the victim of multiple crime to enter housing unit violence perpetrated by an exploiter and who strangled her a home intruder who threatened her

[3:12:00] at Gunpoint and our man plural who shot bullets into her apartment.

[3:12:05] No, I'm not focusing on the crime.

[3:12:07] No woman or nobody should have to go through that.

[3:12:10] And that happened under RHA's watch,

[3:12:12] and they had to settle it federally.

[3:12:14] Thank you to Legal Aid of North Carolina for that.

[3:12:17] If you do some research on the gentleman that was here,

[3:12:20] I'm sure you'll find interesting things in every housing authority

[3:12:23] relating to how he manages.

[3:12:26] I guess that's it.

[3:12:27] Thank you guys.

[3:12:35] Our next speaker is Mary Kins, followed by a submit the partner.

[3:12:50] Good evening, Mayor and town council staff.

[3:12:54] Carrie folks.

[3:12:56] My name is Mary Kins.

[3:12:59] I'm employed at St. Paul's Episcopal Church.

[3:13:01] I'm on staff there. My title is Community Connector.

[3:13:05] I'm also a member of the Strategy Team of One Wake.

[3:13:11] One Wake is formed so that we can reach beyond the boundaries of our

[3:13:15] faith and try to connect, trying to connect people together to find a way to a more just and

[3:13:23] loving world.

[3:13:27] I'm really frustrated that this is happening tonight. Timing stinks. There's

[3:13:35] an opportunity before us that has nothing to do with corruption. There's an opportunity

[3:13:43] before us, and I feel like I'm in a time warp. Because 30 years ago, the thing that prompted

[3:13:51] me and really spurred me to get involved in one wake was the time that I kept my mouth shut.

[3:13:57] When the Episcopal Housing Ministry wanted to build affordable housing apartments in my backyard,

[3:14:03] literally in the backyard of the first home I ever owned. And I said, who's going to live there?

[3:14:11] And they said, single moms, people who are just trying to make it, and I said, you know what?

[3:14:18] That's the neighborhood I grew up in.

[3:14:21] Yeah, I want that in my backyard.

[3:14:23] And my neighbors said, you are an idiot.

[3:14:26] You're going to lose everything that you ever worked for in this house.

[3:14:30] You're going to lose it all.

[3:14:32] And so I shut up in the Episcopal Housing Ministry didn't build apartments on dynasty drive.

[3:14:40] So here I am 30 years later,

[3:14:46] and the mood is really not any different, except that the

[3:14:50] town council is listening.

[3:14:54] Now, you're taking it on the chin for listening, and I'm kind of embarrassed by that.

[3:15:00] I'm sad about that. Stop please, let her speak.

[3:15:07] You know, rent is expensive. Wages are not keeping pace. Dead is increasing.

[3:15:15] No area in Wake County is getting ahead of this. We have got to work together to try to change this runaway system.

[3:15:24] We have got to stop blaming people for the hardships that the system keeps piling on them.

[3:15:33] We used to say people were down on their luck.

[3:15:36] They come knocking at the church door.

[3:15:37] We maybe didn't want to say that they were having a hard time.

[3:15:40] No, they're down on their luck.

[3:15:41] As if luck is the driving factor.

[3:15:45] We have created a system that keeps pushing people into these crises.

[3:15:51] We have to stop it.

[3:15:57] Chathamah states was an issue in March.

[3:16:00] I was there with my camera on the last day that they gathered.

[3:16:05] I was there to capture the emotion of what was going on.

[3:16:08] I captured the emotion of several of you town council members who were weeping

[3:16:12] over the fact that these people were being wiped away.

[3:16:16] People said, if only we had enough money that we could buy the land out from under them,

[3:16:22] that we could keep them here.

[3:16:24] If only we could invest in them, we cared about them.

[3:16:30] We didn't have the money, we didn't have a superhero.

[3:16:31] Please let her speak.

[3:16:33] So now, when we're presented with a solution that will prevent profitability from taking over this land, what do we do?

[3:16:44] We don't want that here, we don't trust them, we don't trust anybody.

[3:16:48] profitability is the thing we can't afford to let these people live here. We keep calling them

[3:16:55] these people as if it's not us. Where are our priorities? Good ideas don't stop at the boundaries

[3:17:06] of our town. There's good ideas in Raleigh. There's good ideas in Zebulin. There's good ideas

[3:17:11] in a lot of places.

[3:17:14] We stand at a crossroads where we can bring collaboration in

[3:17:18] in a place that we have never done this before.

[3:17:21] Innovation is what gets us beyond the same old,

[3:17:27] innovation.

[3:17:28] Letterspeak, please.

[3:17:29] What do you need?

[3:17:30] Innovation will carry us way beyond the 30-year problem

[3:17:37] of not in my backyard.

[3:17:40] I urge you to let this collaboration be the beginning of a new way forward for all of Wake

[3:17:46] Army.

[3:17:49] Are we only a profit motivated society?

[3:17:53] Or can we think about the people that are in our community?

[3:17:55] Thank you.

[3:17:55] Your time is expired.

[3:17:57] Thank you.

[3:18:18] Good evening.

[3:18:19] My name is Samantha Burtner.

[3:18:21] My husband Jared and I became first-time homeowners four years ago when we bought our

[3:18:27] And we live directly across the street from the Amberwood apartment community.

[3:18:32] We can see the entrance from our windows.

[3:18:35] We're here tonight with our four children, and many, many of our

[3:18:40] Lockmeer neighbors.

[3:18:43] To voice our objection to the Raleigh Housing Authority acquiring this property.

[3:18:49] The town of Kerry should not authorize or enable this for all of the reasons

[3:18:53] that you've heard tonight.

[3:18:56] And because the Raleigh Housing Authority is not operating on behalf of Kerry and will not be a good neighbor.

[3:19:03] The Raleigh Housing Authority has an extensive application, oh I'm sorry, yes.

[3:19:07] The Raleigh Housing Authority has an extensive application process and long wait lists,

[3:19:12] which range from months to several years according to their website.

[3:19:16] The application for this public housing and the application, I'm sorry, is for this public housing.

[3:19:24] and when public housing units become available, the next person on the wait list is notified.

[3:19:30] This is not carry specific.

[3:19:33] Rally public housing in carry will move people looking for affordable housing in Rally out

[3:19:38] of the city, which might be in Rally's best interest, but is not serving the housing needs

[3:19:43] of the people of carry or the town of carries stated housing goals.

[3:19:49] This idea that the idea that this housing would be for carries teachers and firefighters

[3:19:54] who we love is just a comfortable fantasy.

[3:19:58] In reality, the RHA cannot guarantee that people living in Amberwood are working in

[3:20:03] carry, and in fact, it's most likely that residents would be from Raleigh effectively taking

[3:20:08] housing from carry residents.

[3:20:11] This is not preserving affordable housing for carry residents as Mrs. Ms. Wailahan hopes.

[3:20:18] It will only create more public housing for Raleigh's public housing program.

[3:20:24] The reason the RHA will be a bad neighbor is too fold. First, it takes a robust property management

[3:20:30] team to maintain a clean, safe and comfortable community. I have experience with this as I was a property manager

[3:20:36] for many years. And some of the communities I worked for had low-income designated units.

[3:20:44] RHA apartment communities have received many negative reviews from residents complaining about

[3:20:49] trash, dirty and stinky buildings, broken AC for weeks during our recent heat wave, and complaints

[3:20:55] about management and on-responsive staff. One resident review even said, don't move here unless you

[3:21:02] have nowhere else to go.

[3:21:05] I drove by RHA's Kentwood community, and the first apartment I saw had a broken couch sitting

[3:21:10] on the front porch and trash all around the front door.

[3:21:13] This is not in keeping with the community standards of lockmeer, and we should not invite

[3:21:18] Raleigh's dysfunctional property management choices into our neighborhood and into our communities.

[3:21:28] Second, the RHA is not accountable to the people of Kerry as many people have pointed

[3:21:33] out, or even to its own residents that are living at their communities.

[3:21:38] This kind of bureaucratic entity is no incentive to keep residents happy since there's a

[3:21:41] steady supply of applicants waiting to take their place, or it's carry neighbors since it

[3:21:47] has no ties of any kind to our community.

[3:21:53] Voting, yes, on this resolution, would not only go against the will of the community affected

[3:21:57] by this measure whom you represent and have heard from tonight overwhelmingly, but also against

[3:22:03] the best interests of Kerry, since it will not keep Kerry housing available for Kerry residents

[3:22:07] and will introduce an unaccountable government entity into our community.

[3:22:12] We urge and expect a no vote on this resolution and even more that you will take action

[3:22:19] to prevent this acquisition in the future.

[3:22:22] Thank you.

[3:22:33] Our last registered speaker is Michael Jones.

[3:22:38] Mr. Johnson?

[3:22:52] Yes, I'm the Speaker, you've been waiting for.

[3:22:56] I think I'd nice to be here all by fellow Kerry citizens.

[3:23:01] Most citizens, Kerry, are here by choice.

[3:23:04] We could have chosen Raleigh with its high-rises and urban amenities,

[3:23:08] but we chose Raleigh, have chosen Kerry.

[3:23:11] Kerry, with roughly one-seventh-the-violent crime,

[3:23:14] allowing citizens of all ages to enjoy time and public spaces.

[3:23:17] carry with less than one half the property crime.

[3:23:21] This proposal gives the mayor of carry, her non-appointed Rosal Raleigh housing authority

[3:23:26] commissioners, their CEO, and 134 fellow employees operational authority over the 340 units

[3:23:34] of Amberwood apartments.

[3:23:36] You are carry-elected citizens can say no.

[3:23:39] That's the only voice you will have, a yes vote by you will mean all citizens carry will

[3:23:44] linkers our operation of this large, the operation of this large, successful carry apartment

[3:23:50] complex to a governor organization that answers to their citizens, not ours.

[3:23:56] Unlike private, privately owned departments, he will not be subject subject to the open

[3:24:01] market forces of renders with choices, subsidized renders will not have alternative accommodations

[3:24:07] they can afford.

[3:24:09] It's a poverty trap for the residents who become dependent and must accept what a full market

[3:24:15] paying renner would not.

[3:24:18] Who here believes Raleigh will prioritize carry apartments, sending in the best residents,

[3:24:24] putting their first, putting first their operational and maintenance funds over, over their

[3:24:29] own Raleigh units.

[3:24:31] This acquisition of a significant carry property by government that does not serve us is wrong

[3:24:37] for the town of Kerry, bad for the people of Kerry, but quite the outlet for Raleigh.

[3:24:44] The citizen of Kerry voted for you. Who will you vote for?

[3:24:56] That's it for those who have signed up to speak if you are in the audience and would like

[3:25:00] to speak this is your opportunity.

[3:25:24] Good evening, Council. My name is Evan McGen, and I serve at the Kirk of Kildair Presbyterian

[3:25:30] Church and I'm a Kerry resident. I'm a previous role. I also served on the Advisory Council

[3:25:35] of the largest effort to preserve Noah housing in North Carolina.

[3:25:42] I'll say that much of the discussion tonight has focused on whether or not 300 units of affordable housing should come to carry.

[3:25:51] When I want to note that there are already 340 units of affordable housing in carry.

[3:25:56] And so, the question, the question is not, should these 340 units become affordable housing?

[3:26:04] The question is, do we want to lose it?

[3:26:07] Now, I'll say that comes with a cost, that decision to preserve no housing, which is the

[3:26:14] largest source of affordable housing in carry.

[3:26:17] It's 80% of all affordable housing in White County.

[3:26:21] If we want to keep that, because it's vulnerable.

[3:26:24] It is the most at-risk source of affordable housing in our community.

[3:26:29] If we want to keep that vulnerable and large stock of affordable housing in this community,

[3:26:35] it comes with a cost that's been talked about a lot this evening, that 200,000, number,

[3:26:43] that 15 million over 30 years, what has not been talked about is the cost of building 340 units

[3:26:51] of affordable housing, which by my count with the current North Carolina Builders Association

[3:26:56] 250,000 per unit cost comes to about 85 million dollars. So I know there's been a lot of discussion

[3:27:05] about financial responsibility and management this evening, but I would compare 85 million dollars

[3:27:12] and 15 million and I would take this bet as a much more responsible choice.

[3:27:18] I would also just want to say that I think if you live in Amber Wood, if it's managed by

[3:27:26] Raleigh Housing Authority, you're still a carry resident, and I'll leave that there.

[3:27:33] Thank you.

[3:27:49] Good evening, Council.

[3:27:50] My name is Reverend Wesley Spears.

[3:27:53] I've lived in carry for about a decade now, coming up on our 10th anniversary, and I'm proud to live in this town.

[3:28:01] I'm a pastor at Greenwood Forest Baptist Church just down the road at the intersection of

[3:28:07] Maynard and killed their farm.

[3:28:11] And when I first started working in ministry and carry, one of the things that would happen

[3:28:18] a lot is folks would come in with small needs.

[3:28:22] They would come in meeting a grocery card, meeting a gas card,

[3:28:26] need to bus ticket just to get to Raleigh.

[3:28:30] Let's back then, we had higher fares.

[3:28:33] So thank you, God.

[3:28:36] But eventually, they started coming with more.

[3:28:39] And I started coming with needs that we couldn't meet.

[3:28:44] They started coming with needs like rent.

[3:28:47] That was too high.

[3:28:48] Newtility bills that were too high.

[3:28:51] And we didn't have the resources to help with that.

[3:28:54] And that is what led to our congregation's housing work.

[3:29:00] Many of the folks in Carrey,

[3:29:02] know us as people who have worked on housing and are working on housing.

[3:29:06] We were one of the founding congregations of one wake because of this interest in housing.

[3:29:12] Because we saw it affecting the people who walked in our door

[3:29:15] in the people who sat in our pews.

[3:29:19] We have decided to take half of our property and make it available to become affordable housing.

[3:29:28] Because we believe in putting money where our mouth is.

[3:29:34] So one wake and greenwood forest and our folks are not coming to you as people who just want other people to do things.

[3:29:42] But we're putting our skin in the game too.

[3:29:45] And given my history with housing advocacy and housing work and working with vulnerable populations,

[3:29:54] when I heard details about RHA purchasing Amberwood, I actually breathed a sigh of relief.

[3:30:00] Because we've been enduring the effects of displacement for years, hearing carry. Not just a high profile, examples of it, but we've been watching our housing stock disappear.

[3:30:12] I have told the story in front of council before, but the only reason I was able to move from renting and carry to living and carry, where I work and serve the community, is because someone in my family died and left us the money.

[3:30:30] And that should not have to happen to be able to afford a house.

[3:30:36] We should not be necessary for folks to die for us to be able to afford housing.

[3:30:42] And we should not have to work six figure jobs to be able to afford housing in care.

[3:30:47] I was relieved when I saw that RHA wanted to buy it because this is housing that serves folks

[3:30:54] who are at the 50% of the area median income right now.

[3:30:58] We're trying to do that on our campus too and we don't have as much room it's not going to be

[3:31:04] 340 units. But we have been moving heaven and earth for 5 years for 62 units and it has cost us money

[3:31:13] and it has cost us effort and it is incredibly hard to do. And it seems to me given my experience that if we have someone who can come in

[3:31:24] and preserve affordable housing,

[3:31:27] we should become partners with them.

[3:31:29] I understand the concerns about oversight

[3:31:32] and I understand the concerns about Raleigh,

[3:31:36] and I also know that the people of Raleigh are my neighbors too.

[3:31:41] That I know that the people of Carrie are my near and dear family.

[3:31:44] I love my street, I love my neighborhood,

[3:31:47] and I love my church, and all the people who go there.

[3:31:50] And I also know that through my work with one week, I care about the people rally too.

[3:31:56] And I've been disappointed to see them demonized tonight as they have been.

[3:32:01] And I would like to see these homes stay affordable.

[3:32:04] And I would like to see the residents stay in their homes.

[3:32:10] And we can debate about the best way to do that.

[3:32:13] It seems to me based on considering this asking questions of RHA and asking questions of all of you all that this is our best option right now.

[3:32:24] So let's let people stay, don't turn carry into just a luxury community, and let's be good partners and good stewards and above all be good neighbors.

[3:32:35] Thank you.

[3:32:50] My name's Mike Dolan, like many of you have heard from my live in Lockmear.

[3:32:56] The pastor was just up, seemed to make a good point.

[3:32:59] Apologize if I disagree with a lot of what you said.

[3:33:04] First question is, do you guys know what the Yoki Doke is?

[3:33:08] Because that's what I feel like we're getting.

[3:33:11] The Yoki Doke is where you get somebody's attention on one thing,

[3:33:15] and you get them from behind on something else.

[3:33:19] The rally housing authority

[3:33:22] As many people have said, not just is not part of carry, but it's going to have priorities that are completely in contradiction to what's important for carry.

[3:33:34] They're going to be managing a whole portfolio.

[3:33:38] And as some have said, the crime in one might be high or the values in another, and they're going to want to distribute that.

[3:33:44] And any of that will then start being distributed to us.

[3:33:49] If we decide we need a housing authority, we need our own.

[3:33:54] Not one from Raleigh or any other municipality.

[3:34:01] And I've heard that there's 24 million available to start it.

[3:34:09] Number two,

[3:34:13] the specifically with the Okidoq.

[3:34:15] We've heard a lot of how it's $219,000 in tax.

[3:34:20] per year that's going to be forgiven if the rally housing authorities led to come in.

[3:34:28] I don't think anybody thinks that there won't be an impact on property values.

[3:34:32] Take for example, let's say a house is a half million dollars.

[3:34:37] I don't think it'll go to a hundred thousand.

[3:34:39] Let's say it only loses ten percent.

[3:34:42] Let's say it becomes a foreign fifty thousand dollar property.

[3:34:46] If you take the value of all the houses and I pulled them,

[3:34:49] There are within two miles of amberwoods.

[3:34:53] There's 7,187 private homes.

[3:34:57] The assessed value is $4.65 billion.

[3:35:03] If you assume a 5% annual increase, which is exactly what we've averaged,

[3:35:10] that loss of property taxes along with will be over 4 million a year,

[3:35:18] And to that, the 219,000, over the 30-year commitment, you're looking at $263 million lost

[3:35:30] in tax revenue to the town of Kerry.

[3:35:33] So telling everybody, oh, it's only 219,000, when it's really over a quarter billion dollars,

[3:35:41] that's the Okidoq.

[3:35:42] That's saying, here's one number, but it's really something else.

[3:35:46] And if you guys haven't done the math and haven't calculated that, that's because either there wasn't enough time in the process, or you didn't care.

[3:35:57] Guess me the next part.

[3:35:59] The fact that the RHA folks left makes me think they already know this is a done deal.

[3:36:06] That's one of the most telling things I've seen.

[3:36:09] In the wake of auditors finding the financial mismanagement, I think it would be prudent to freeze any large financial decisions by the council, the mayor, the board, anybody.

[3:36:23] This is a chance to instead move forward with a different direction.

[3:36:28] If you want to send the message that this is all for show, that this is all a waste of time, and that this was done.

[3:36:33] But yes, otherwise, vote no.

[3:36:39] Thank you.

[3:36:52] Good evening.

[3:36:53] Good evening.

[3:36:54] Good evening.

[3:36:54] My name is Joshua Atkins.

[3:36:56] My parents are residents of Lockhamere for 25 years.

[3:37:01] I grew up in a household.

[3:37:02] I still live there to this day.

[3:37:04] We live about half a mile from Amberwood.

[3:37:08] I have a disabled brother.

[3:37:10] And he often takes walks to Amber Wood or to the church, which is right across the street from Amber Wood, right up the street.

[3:37:21] We often take walks every day.

[3:37:25] I have been very star-stroke by this because it's been brought to my attention just ten days ago that they're going to put a affordable housing.

[3:37:39] in this, in lockamere, my neighborhood.

[3:37:43] So I'm speaking to you as a kid, as a kid of lockamere.

[3:37:48] I would not feel safe with these people, not these people,

[3:37:55] but I have a voice just like you.

[3:38:07] I'm trying to figure out the right words to say.

[3:38:12] Because nowadays, living a world where you cannot speak your mind without other people disagree and we should be able to disagree and go on with other lights, you know, and not, you know, be neighbors, and I feel like if we put these affordable housings in, then my neighborhood lock mirror will become a crime driven neighborhood.

[3:38:40] Like you've heard the numbers today, why don't we all take a trip down to Raleigh, down to the

[3:38:47] affordable housings, and let's take a look around and let's take a look at how that would fit

[3:38:54] into carry, how that would fit into lockmail.

[3:38:57] My parents withdrew them to lockmail was the safeness of lockmail and the proximity to everything,

[3:39:06] The proximity of everything, you can get the rawly within 15 minutes, wherever you need.

[3:39:15] And my concern is today. And my question is to you guys today. Would you guys put these affordable housings in your neighborhood?

[3:39:25] Because honestly, I'm not one that would be accusing in you guys elected officials I do respect you all.

[3:39:33] as I've been raised, but honestly I do not feel like you guys would put this in your

[3:39:38] guys's neighborhoods. This is my opinion. Other people may have different opinions, but

[3:39:44] please do not put this in my neighborhood and let my disabled brother risk his life

[3:39:50] on the street. Because if that happens, your your mayor seat and all your guys' seats

[3:39:57] will be up and I'm an I'm of the age to vote now so I will vote specifically for

[3:40:04] a different person all right thank you and we do not put this in my neighborhood thank

[3:40:11] you

[3:40:30] my name is Kim Dakey and I'm a terrible speaker so just bear with me I have actually

[3:40:40] live in Cary for 48 years and I haven't heard anybody here that's lived quite that long

[3:40:49] here. So I'm coming at it from somebody who's grown up, went to Cary schools, went to

[3:40:57] college in North Carolina, came back, lived in Cary, owner house and Cary in fact right

[3:41:03] Mayor Wine Brick's house and I'm very concerned about this public housing that's going in right across from our neighborhood.

[3:41:14] I live in Camden Forest, which is right around the corner from lock mirror.

[3:41:20] I'm not going to reiterate all the tax issues, which I feel very strongly about,

[3:41:26] especially given the fact that this city council not to hold the mic.

[3:41:33] The city council has just blown through all of this money which really, as a taxpayer,

[3:41:41] makes me and most of my friends and family extremely angry because if I overspent in my

[3:41:50] I have to cut back on a lot of things so that I could catch up.

[3:41:55] It seems like this whole tax issue with this affordable housing unit, public housing,

[3:42:04] is not cutting back on things.

[3:42:05] It's just wasting more money that we have.

[3:42:08] It might only be $4 or $5 or $10 or $10,

[3:42:12] but what's the next one going to be?

[3:42:14] What's the next one after that?

[3:42:15] I mean, it's just, it's just going to go on and on and I just think it's a poor use

[3:42:21] of our tax money.

[3:42:24] When I first found out about this, I just thought I was going to look up the RHA housing

[3:42:31] developments and see for myself what was going on with them, crime-wise, because I don't

[3:42:37] like to just listen to other people say, oh yeah, well, there are a lot of crime, and what

[3:42:41] found was extremely alarming. There's one group that rates some of these places with grades.

[3:42:52] And the only grades I saw were a C, a C minus and an F plus for crime ratings. One is

[3:43:00] Kentwood, it had a C rating. So here's what happens with the C rating. Most of these are

[3:43:06] actually not violent crimes, there are property crimes and drug crimes, but assault was 67%

[3:43:13] above the national average, robbery was 92% above the national average, burglary was 50%

[3:43:20] above the national average, larsony in theft was 81% above the national average, vehicle theft

[3:43:28] was 83 above the national average, Kentwood is near NC State, it's not, you know, in an area

[3:43:36] that you would really consider to be super low-income or anything like that.

[3:43:41] I have two kids at NC State, Capital Park, which is near William P. University, was rated

[3:43:49] the C minus. I'm not going to go into all of this, but it also had low violent crime,

[3:43:55] but very, very high property crime above the national average.

[3:44:00] The one that really really got me though was Walnut Terrace, which is in downtown Raleigh.

[3:44:08] Near southeast Raleigh, this is all Raleigh housing association property, very high crime F plus.

[3:44:18] violent crime, 94% above the national average, so that's violent crime, property crime was 81%

[3:44:27] above the national average, and overall had a 100% crime rate above the national average.

[3:44:35] So, and I all I did was I just googled every one of these properties, and I really only got to about half of them.

[3:44:44] Now, some people brought up the information about maintenance.

[3:44:53] And I was reading that the maintenance requests are like there's 250 requests in.

[3:45:00] Right now at Raleigh Housing Association and there behind. How do you fill 250 maintenance requests?

[3:45:08] I mean, when my kids lived in apartments at NC State, they had to wait a week to get their air conditioning fixed.

[3:45:15] I mean, it's hot outside. What do you do? You can't wait for 250 other requests to be filled before your own.

[3:45:24] So I just, I really feel like this has been rushed, it's been, you know, a back door type of thing, and it's a crime, it's going to be,

[3:45:38] the crime alone is just alarming to me, and I would urge you to vote no for it, especially you, Bella.

[3:45:53] Hello Mayor and town council, and I just want to thank everyone in this town for coming out tonight.

[3:46:00] This is great to have you.

[3:46:01] Could just take it together to discuss.

[3:46:05] I hope everyone could you state your name please.

[3:46:08] Oh yes, thank you.

[3:46:09] Jenny Lynn Tilletson.

[3:46:10] Thank you.

[3:46:11] And I live in Franklin Chase.

[3:46:16] My house, the backyard, is open to the Spate Branch Greenway,

[3:46:19] way, which is easily accessible from the Amberwood apartments, and I hope everyone will forgive

[3:46:27] me for not having prepared remarks, but I actually only heard about this four days ago.

[3:46:36] And at first I was very excited because I firmly believe that we should have space for everyone

[3:46:47] and our world, and we should be providing opportunities for all of us to reach out and be better

[3:46:53] neighbors. As I've been listening tonight, though, I see everyone's concerns.

[3:47:04] There are

[3:47:04] ways, there are really smart ways, there are really caring ways to provide affordable housing.

[3:47:12] My brother who is a public school teacher in Iowa was hoping to move here, but can't find

[3:47:19] place that they can afford.

[3:47:23] And so I'm all for carry being able to provide many levels

[3:47:28] of housing where everyone has a lifestyle that they can feel good about. The large scope

[3:47:37] of this development is concerning.

[3:47:41] First of all, because it is rushed, as I said, this came

[3:47:45] to me as a surprise, having only heard about it four days ago from actually a friend who lives

[3:47:52] in lock mirror.

[3:47:53] When my house is so easily accessible to the Amberwood, I thought perhaps all of us in those

[3:47:59] surrounding areas should have been notified so that we could have time to study this out

[3:48:05] and learn about it, my hope was that as other areas have done where they do have very successful

[3:48:14] of boarding affordable housing. My hope was that this was going to be more of a few units

[3:48:22] placed so that no one really can tell within the neighborhood which residents are subsidized.

[3:48:31] So there's more of a community places I grew up in Utah and also in California and neighborhood

[3:48:39] where affordable housing is placed highly successfully, is where on in a group of town homes,

[3:48:46] one or two town homes will be the subsidized affordable housing. But because neighbors have a chance

[3:48:53] to be seen as equal with each other, there isn't the discrimination and there isn't an assumption

[3:49:04] of I have a reason to fear you, or in a housing development, a few houses, within that development,

[3:49:15] would have a subsidized or a floor or a lower income level capped for just a few of those

[3:49:21] houses.

[3:49:22] But again, none of the neighbors would know which of those houses were capped for a lower income.

[3:49:28] It made it a really wonderful opportunity in those neighborhoods where I lived in Utah and in California

[3:49:37] to be able to just reach out and be neighbors and not have any social, economic status assumptions go along with that.

[3:49:49] So, as much as I was super excited to know that there's affordable housing being promoted by

[3:49:58] Utah Council and by other entities in the town of Kerry,

[3:50:03] from what I've heard tonight,

[3:50:05] I don't think this has been well planned or well thought out if what people have studied about the

[3:50:12] tax issues of taxes going to rally rather than to carry is true. I think that's a mistake.

[3:50:23] I would just urge all of us though to find better ways to welcome all people into our lives

[3:50:31] and into our neighborhoods that we can have our distrust evaporate because there's a really

[3:50:38] wonderful thing that happens. If you see someone as an enemy, they're going to be an enemy.

[3:50:46] But if you instead treat your enemies, quote enemies as friends,

[3:50:51] pretty soon you don't have any enemies. And we can make that happen in carry.

[3:50:57] But it needs to be done wisely, judiciously, carefully.

[3:51:01] Thomas, it's far. Thank you very much, town council. Thank you,

[3:51:04] Kerry residents.

[3:51:18] Hi, my name is Paul Cole. I live in

[3:51:20] Lockmeer. I am very fairly familiar with the housing authority.

[3:51:24] I have built housing subsidized housing before.

[3:51:29] It's a terrible idea to do in Kerry. It's a terrible idea that

[3:51:33] most successful ones are when like she said right there.

[3:51:36] When you build them, you mix them in here and there. You don't put a group together

[3:51:40] like that. The most successful ever the crime line goes up 19

[3:51:44] percent. That's the most successful. So if we can keep it very successful and raise our

[3:51:49] crime only 19 percent, why would you want to do that? I am also a member of the Lock

[3:51:56] Mirror Home Association, the HR at the, at the, at the HR at the, at the HR at the

[3:52:02] Architectural Committee. Everybody has to keep their yards up, and we're with no exception.

[3:52:07] Like she says, it's not like people were saying before that another developer will come in here

[3:52:13] and they'll let it run down. It won't be run down. It has to be maintained. We have control

[3:52:18] over it the way it is. Somewhat control.

[3:52:22] If we don't, if we let Rally take care of it, and

[3:52:25] I'm familiar with Rally housing authority. I know how they work. I know how believe me it'll

[3:52:30] be an absolute mess. People in lockmeer, most of people in lockmeer, and around here don't

[3:52:35] want that. I know Bella, you've come to our neighborhood. I know you represent it so over there,

[3:52:41] I know most of the people who live in the area don't want it.

[3:52:44] I know some people who rent it, lock me, they're okay with it.

[3:52:48] I know the crowd over there who doesn't live in lock me is for it.

[3:52:54] But as someone who lives there and someone who cares about our property,

[3:52:58] our neighborhood, I don't want to crime increase.

[3:53:00] I do believe it would be good to mix people in neighborhoods here and there,

[3:53:05] not altogether in one section.

[3:53:07] that never works out. It always raises crime everywhere. There's never been one that hasn't

[3:53:13] raised the crime. Why would carry you on it? Why would any of you want it, in carry?

[3:53:17] I don't understand why anybody who, on this council who represents carry would want this,

[3:53:23] would you want it for any of your people? I can't, I can't, I can't believe in it even,

[3:53:28] even up for consideration, but anyway, I urge you to vote against it. Please do. I know what you're

[3:53:39] doing is tough. I know you get criticism from all sides all the time. It's got to be hard to make

[3:53:46] decision, but for the carry resistance we represent, it's not good for us. Thank you very much.

[3:53:52] Hello,

[3:54:02] my name is Carla Libertor. I lived in affordable housing 33 years ago. My husband

[3:54:08] data and I moved from Syracuse, New York, where we went broke in the recession in

[3:54:15] upstate New York. We both lost our jobs in the same year. We had a one year old and a five

[3:54:20] year old. We drove down here in two cars that took us two days in blinding snow to follow

[3:54:26] Mayflower truck to get here.

[3:54:29] My husband started a job that one day.

[3:54:32] And in a month, the person that hired him said she couldn't

[3:54:35] paint anymore.

[3:54:37] Everybody was happy to not take a paycheck that month.

[3:54:40] Well, we had babies to feed, and I wasn't working.

[3:54:44] We moved into affordable housing in Durham, and I'm

[3:54:47] telling you it saved our marriage, it saved our life.

[3:54:51] So when I hear people saying, NIMBY, not in my backyard,

[3:54:56] It breaks my heart, and you can tell I'm on the verge of tears.

[3:55:01] This community is an affluent community.

[3:55:04] We get written up in National Geographic as a beautiful affluent, carry community.

[3:55:09] But we need to open our doors to people who have less than us.

[3:55:12] There are people in this audience who are having trouble making ends meet.

[3:55:17] I've had trouble making ends meet.

[3:55:19] I became a successful financial advisor.

[3:55:22] I raised our family.

[3:55:23] We live in Lockman now. We live in a beautiful house in Lockman. When I go by

[3:55:28] Ambergate regularly, because I live two blocks down from there, I never see a

[3:55:33] problem. I have never seen a person from Ambergate in my neighborhood.

[3:55:38] Letterspeak. Letterspeak. Letterspeak.

[3:55:42] Here's your manners. I'm really sorry about the anger and the fear that we're

[3:55:47] hearing here tonight. We're an anger, fear-based society, and it's all in this room.

[3:55:51] everybody's assuming the worst of rally housing authority.

[3:55:56] What if they're trying to create a partnership with us to give people a second chance?

[3:56:01] I really hope that you will consider this proposal and even if you put it on hold

[3:56:07] and ask them to wait so you can do more research.

[3:56:10] These people deserve a second chance.

[3:56:12] I know I did.

[3:56:25] Hi, my name is Alison Spencer.

[3:56:27] I have been a resident of Carey since I was six years old in 1996.

[3:56:35] One thing that I don't think many people have been thinking of is, I work with refugees

[3:56:40] and a silice.

[3:56:42] Current affordable places like Amberwood, who are not controlled by a public housing authority,

[3:56:49] offer some of the increasingly limited housing options for population for these populations

[3:56:56] who are currently under extreme attack by the current administration,

[3:57:03] and

[3:57:03] please let a part in that population is currently being proposed to have

[3:57:09] barred access to accessing programs like this that they have traditionally been

[3:57:13] offered. Right now, in Lockmear, we have refugees living there. We have a refugee

[3:57:19] who lives in my home. She would not be able to go to this place. We have other

[3:57:25] people who are looking at this place to come and move that I've been working with.

[3:57:32] Also,

[3:57:35] a lot of this reeks of what happened last year with the Waverly proposal.

[3:57:41] If the council was so concerned about affordable housing availability, why was Waverly

[3:57:47] approved with only seven, seven apartments out of 750 apartments for affordable housing.

[3:57:57] And of those, all seven of those are efficiency apartments.

[3:58:00] They don't even get the same level of amenities that a normal family, or even a family to live in.

[3:58:12] Last year when the vote for Wavelay was called, my dad called out the towns.

[3:58:16] for option to y'all's faces. Mr. Mayer, you even told him how dare he impune on your integrity

[3:58:24] given the events of the last several months. I really wouldn't be surprised if kickbacks were offered by

[3:58:29] hines back then and I can't help but wonder what has been off or behind closed doors for this deal.

[3:58:36] Back then we had no idea just how right my dad's assumptions were. Thank you very much.

[3:58:43] Mr.

[3:58:56] Mayor, town council, thank you for letting us have this time in front of you.

[3:59:01] My name is David Johnson.

[3:59:02] I have been a carry resident, a lot near homeowner for close to 35 years.

[3:59:09] I love my neighborhood, I love my neighbors.

[3:59:12] We disagree all the time, but I want to stand up here right now and applaud everyone here

[3:59:18] because we all come together, whether we like us each other or we don't like each other,

[3:59:23] to do the democratic process to speak our minds.

[3:59:27] Because if we can't speak our minds, nobody's

[3:59:31] going to know what's going on.

[3:59:32] And that's what happened here, guys.

[3:59:35] This is what happened.

[3:59:37] Two weeks ago, you're my representative, by the way.

[3:59:40] Two weeks ago, this came in from, I came into my came home,

[3:59:44] and I found out the world was turning upside down.

[3:59:48] OK?

[3:59:49] I found a sneaky guy, very, very sneaky.

[3:59:52] I would like to ask one question.

[3:59:56] When did this first come up to the Terry Carey?

[4:00:02] What was the last week? Why did you let that fall and you jump on this? This is your time speech.

[4:00:14] Yes, sir, why did you let that happen? Because in one week's time nobody can close a house. Could you close a house in a week? Can you clear, I couldn't clear out my garage in a week?

[4:00:29] You know, there's no me know this, but I want to say thank you to everybody who came out tonight, whether it's pro, whether it's con.

[4:00:36] I thank all of you for doing your job.

[4:00:38] I'm not going to sit here and say, you know what you guys are, bunch of crooks.

[4:00:41] I don't think I have to say that.

[4:00:44] That's not how I meant that. That came off from.

[4:00:47] I won't you to seriously consider what you've heard tonight.

[4:00:52] And when someone goes to buy a house, you just don't go in and buy a random and just jump all over it.

[4:01:00] That's, okay, so I've been in North Raleigh 35 years ago.

[4:01:03] Off six forks road, what was the investments I could ever have made in my life trying to drive up and down there?

[4:01:09] So what I ask you is, if you don't vote no, at least table this so we can have more community discussion.

[4:01:17] So we can do not get angry at each other, but let's have real discussion because you did not discuss with anybody.

[4:01:24] You didn't call, you didn't call a lot, Mayor. You didn't call the neighborhoods around the corner. Nobody's in anything out.

[4:01:32] Period.

[4:01:34] No way.

[4:01:36] So I leave this tonight saying to all my friends, not friends.

[4:01:42] People I've never met before, I've never said only about three people I know here.

[4:01:45] But I think as a whole, we are against this, okay?

[4:01:51] You are not, that's great, yes, you're a pinion.

[4:01:54] So please vote no, I thank you, may we have a good night,

[4:01:58] not everybody goes home safely and take all this

[4:02:01] in the consideration.

[4:02:02] I plead that you vote no, thank you.

[4:02:14] Thank you.

[4:02:16] I might be the last, but I'll be brief.

[4:02:20] Thirty years ago, I made into Ann Riverwood.

[4:02:23] Your name, please.

[4:02:24] Bob Bolderon.

[4:02:25] Thank you.

[4:02:26] I live in Locomir.

[4:02:28] Thirty years ago, I moved into Amber Wood, loved it so much.

[4:02:33] What did I love?

[4:02:35] I love the beauty, the beauty of Locomir.

[4:02:39] Locomir was, to me, one of the anchor, PUD models of Carey.

[4:02:48] It had covenants.

[4:02:50] It had covenants and the covenants made it special, right?

[4:02:56] It wasn't for everybody, but it was the covenants.

[4:03:00] So what do I hear today?

[4:03:01] I came here with an open mind, right?

[4:03:04] I'm gonna hear, and what do I hear?

[4:03:07] It's affordable today.

[4:03:10] It's nice today because of the covenants and carry.

[4:03:14] So for me, it's a vote of this.

[4:03:17] is a better under the covenants of lock mirror and carry, or roly, okay?

[4:03:26] It's your vote.

[4:03:27] You think it's better off under roly or under you to me.

[4:03:33] That's the question you ask yourself.

[4:03:36] What do you think?

[4:03:38] I think the answer is it's better under you

[4:03:42] and it's better under the covenants of lock mirror, okay?

[4:03:46] So I urge you to vote, no,

[4:03:52] thank you very much,

[4:03:55] anyone else.

[4:04:10] Good evening, my name is Kim Zoinger.

[4:04:13] I've been a resident of Carey for 38 years and absolutely did not expect to speak tonight.

[4:04:20] So I have, excuse me, if it sounds a little scattered.

[4:04:28] I grew up in a low-income family.

[4:04:30] I don't think any of us broke the law or trashed our neighborhood or endangered people who lived around us.

[4:04:45] I remember years ago someone in my neighborhood invited a bunch of us over and said we need to talk about something.

[4:04:52] We went over and they said, did you hear there's going to be some lower priced apartments going up beside our neighborhood?

[4:05:00] And we're starting a petition,

[4:05:04] and I remember standing up and saying, I'm not signing it.

[4:05:13] I've yet to see any crime or any endangerment.

[4:05:18] The property values in carrier skyrocketing.

[4:05:23] I see 1,000 square foot ranch homes.

[4:05:27] The one point I looked at is a good place for me to retire.

[4:05:30] They're going for $900,000 now.

[4:05:33] And then being torn down to build something bigger.

[4:05:37] I

[4:05:43] don't know all the details about what's going on with this.

[4:05:47] I haven't had time to research it.

[4:05:49] I do know that some of the research that's been thrown out tonight

[4:05:52] sounds a little sketchy.

[4:05:55] 92% higher than the national average.

[4:05:59] 100% higher.

[4:06:01] That seems like something that would be newsworthy.

[4:06:05] I'm a teacher.

[4:06:06] I've taught children who are from low income families.

[4:06:10] and are doing their best to get by. And I also know that a lot of people are being pushed

[4:06:15] out around where I taught. We had low income, a low income neighborhood, and now we have

[4:06:22] houses that sell for 1.6 million dollars. And the community that was a lot of people who had

[4:06:29] grown up together and knew each other were pushed out, and they now do not live in carry.

[4:06:37] But I

[4:06:38] the thing that bothers me the most about what I've heard tonight, and we can debate the

[4:06:44] legalities, the, it sounds like Amber Wood is a, is a community that's already there,

[4:06:50] and that this is going to keep a company from coming in and raising the rates, which I'm sorry,

[4:06:57] it does happen. And like I said, I haven't had time to research all of this, but I think that

[4:07:04] the thing that bothers me the most tonight, and I think that being able to talk is community is very

[4:07:11] important, but the thing that bothers me the most is I feel like we're equating income with character.

[4:07:19] And I think that's wrong.

[4:07:23] We can't mix, you know, all respect to people that live in

[4:07:37] I can't sell a house and lock mere for $300,000 to $200,000.

[4:07:46] Please, please.

[4:07:52] I just wish we would see each other as more than our incomes.

[4:07:59] And thank you for your time.

[4:08:07] Next speaker,

[4:08:19] please come.

[4:08:25] Good evening.

[4:08:30] My name is Nick Ballmus, and I am a Lockman resident.

[4:08:33] I live very near the Amberwood facility.

[4:08:36] And it has been pointed out already.

[4:08:40] It already is a affordable housing, and it's been being managed quite well, and it's been

[4:08:46] part of the community, it's been part of the lock mirror, and it doesn't need to change.

[4:08:52] I also grew up in a family, they did not have a lot of money, did not have a nice house when

[4:08:59] I grew up.

[4:09:00] I had to work hard, pay my taxes, and work really hard to get a job and carry.

[4:09:06] Sometimes you just have to work really hard pay your taxes and you get a place like

[4:09:14] Harry to live.

[4:09:17] I'm sorry that not everybody can afford to live here.

[4:09:21] There are other places that are cheaper.

[4:09:23] But there are so many places to live, not that far away.

[4:09:29] It doesn't need to be right next to in amberwood and it doesn't need to change.

[4:09:33] is already affordable and I encourage you to vote now for this. Thank you.

[4:09:44] Anyone else for this

[4:09:46] public hearing? I was

[4:10:07] not planning to speak tonight and I'm not going to talk long. My name is Elizabeth

[4:10:11] Slight. I go by Libby, Libby, Libby, Libby. I've been there almost 40 years. You guys have all gotten

[4:10:17] might e-mails. The one thing that I want to mention that hasn't even been mentioned tonight

[4:10:24] is none of us are not in favor of low and mid-income housing. Amberwood's already there,

[4:10:34] we love it. What we are opposed to is you giving that to the Raleigh Housing Authority.

[4:10:41] Now, if we can get a bond referendum to put a $68 million park in downtown Kerry, why can't we do that for an amberwood?

[4:10:56] We know that they're trying to sell it. We know that the owner wants to sell it.

[4:11:00] Find, let's keep it affordable, but let's keep it Kerry.

[4:11:04] make this happen, you should do this, put the bond forward, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll, yes, for it.

[4:11:12] Don't let Raleigh come in and ruin it. Don't let them.

[4:11:19] I'm sure, I'm sure those people are really nice, but just for whatever heard,

[4:11:25] just the fact that Raleigh doesn't have, Kerry doesn't have any control over it once it's gone.

[4:11:30] Big mistake. That's all you gotta say. Thank you very much.

[4:11:38] Anyone else or the public hearing?

[4:11:43] Anyone else? Okay I'll close the public hearing. I'll start off with my comments. I'll be very brief.

[4:11:54] Um, some questions before we to come in.

[4:11:57] Sure.

[4:11:57] Could you be right?

[4:11:58] Yeah.

[4:11:59] Um,

[4:12:00] Ms.

[4:12:01] We love you.

[4:12:01] And, and maybe the RTA.

[4:12:03] I have a number of questions that, um,

[4:12:06] the public brought up.

[4:12:08] I'm hoping someone can answer them.

[4:12:13] A whole time.

[4:12:14] Oh, here.

[4:12:20] Can you,

[4:12:22] can you, um,

[4:12:25] address,

[4:12:26] maybe the history of this property?

[4:12:29] And, you know, we've heard there's some money that's put down, there's money that's coming.

[4:12:36] We've also heard about RHA being only in Raleigh, and which you have shared with us.

[4:12:42] Can you give us a little bit more information about that?

[4:12:45] And also the covenant, some of the questions that we have heard.

[4:12:49] Can you address some of those?

[4:12:54] Hi.

[4:12:55] Good evening.

[4:12:57] Can you introduce yourself?

[4:12:58] My name is Jason Morrell.

[4:12:59] I'm the Director of Acquisitions and Strategic Partnerships for the

[4:13:02] Rally Housing Authority and the prime point person responsible for this acquisition.

[4:13:09] A little bit of history, the Housing Authority has a strategic plan which provides a background for our actions, which is authorized by our board.

[4:13:19] One part of the strategic plan is to preserve affordable housing where we can and where we can.

[4:13:24] In this instance, we had made an offer on some an acquisition in Raleigh, that acquisition was not accepted.

[4:13:35] At the same time, the property in Amberwood was perfor sale.

[4:13:40] We were contacted by brokers to participate.

[4:13:43] We put an offer, a competitive offer with a wide variety of commercial real estate investment companies.

[4:13:50] And ultimately, we were selected as the winning offer and at that time, we then negotiated

[4:14:01] basically a agreement for access to take a look at the property that triggered the timeline.

[4:14:08] And so the timeline that has been addressed tonight and the reasons why it's of the particular timing that it is.

[4:14:14] From our perspective was driven by the sales contract and the market process for these properties.

[4:14:22] And in general, once the agreement is made and offers accepted, typically those terms are 30 days due diligence period,

[4:14:31] which is a period for us to take look at the property without that money becoming non-reimbursable,

[4:14:37] meaning the earnest money that we would put down similar to the same thing that you would do before your house.

[4:14:45] Um, so the earnest money,

[4:14:59] I'm going to walk.

[4:15:00] I want to talk to everyone through maybe just the time.

[4:15:03] I can't ask that question right? I think the audience is trying to.

[4:15:08] The access agreement, there are two parts, basically, of a purchase and sale agreement.

[4:15:15] One part is an access agreement, which provides the buyer of the property and opportunity to do

[4:15:20] due diligence on that property, meaning to enter the grounds, to take a look at the physical elements, to

[4:15:27] documents have been provided at that time prior to the full fulfillment of those documents

[4:15:32] set.

[4:15:33] During that time, there's a negotiation over the actual purchase and sale agreement.

[4:15:38] So these work at parallel times, but the actual timeline is triggered by the access agreement.

[4:15:45] And the access agreement I believe was signed on the 12th of June or somewhere very close

[4:15:50] to that date.

[4:15:51] That triggers basically a 30-day due diligence period and then a 15-day extension period

[4:15:57] which was part of that sales contract.

[4:16:00] That is why that takes us to in terms of our timeline

[4:16:04] that's driving this process to the 27th.

[4:16:07] That is a decision date by which we need to make a decision

[4:16:10] as a buyer, whether or not we want to move forward

[4:16:13] with this acquisition and purchase,

[4:16:16] or whether or not we decline to move forward.

[4:16:20] As a housing authority, and as a fiduciary of public monies,

[4:16:24] We need to be very certain at that point in time that we can move forward.

[4:16:30] At that time, should we choose to move forward?

[4:16:32] We then have a closing period process, which is typically 30 to 60 days.

[4:16:38] In our sales contract, we have a 30-day process, and then we have another 30-day extension

[4:16:43] with the very sizable deposit that's associated with it.

[4:16:47] And so that explains basically the timeline that brought us to today.

[4:16:52] And, you know, it's already been noted why we're here today, but we need to ensure that we're

[4:17:00] compliant with the law prior to making that decision.

[4:17:04] And can you speak to the covenants questions by the public?

[4:17:10] I have found that discussion would be very interesting today.

[4:17:14] I haven't.

[4:17:15] Myself have very deep conversations with legal counsel, so the first thing I want to suggest

[4:17:19] is that we haven't had legal counsel conversation in regards to the covenant.

[4:17:24] For my perspective, there's no expectation or no reason why the housing authority and

[4:17:30] in particular instrumentality that the question is about capital area developments in

[4:17:34] instrumentality.

[4:17:35] Housing authority is used, what we call instrumentalities, which are nonprofit entities to own

[4:17:42] the properties in which we engage in and in this instance, this would be CAD as a participating

[4:17:49] The owner, which is basically otherwise known as a sister company or instrumentality, there's

[4:17:56] no reason to believe that the instrumentality would not.

[4:18:00] Please, please let me know.

[4:18:01] There would be no reason to believe that there would be no reason for our perspective to believe

[4:18:11] that we would not have to adhere to the covenants of Amberwood.

[4:18:15] So, and nor would we be disenclined to not agree to.

[4:18:20] So Ms. Glover, do you have any information

[4:18:22] that would help on that question?

[4:18:24] Yes, I too have not done deep research on this,

[4:18:26] but for my understanding,

[4:18:33] for my understanding in general,

[4:18:35] when you buy property in that neighborhood,

[4:18:37] you would be subject to any covenants

[4:18:39] that the property is currently subject to,

[4:18:40] but they wouldn't need to confirm that

[4:18:42] with their own legal counsel, not the towns.

[4:18:45] Thank you.

[4:18:46] Other questions?

[4:18:47] That's where my first point of this one, Hanson.

[4:18:50] I have some question to our towered attorney is the procedure like RHA, no matter what kind of authorities come to carry as to ask for a resolution.

[4:19:08] What is the procedure for that?

[4:19:10] And I think we need to let the public know we are complies with the procedure.

[4:19:19] That's correct.

[4:19:20] State law is Ms. Wheeler hand mentioned in her presentation.

[4:19:24] Governors all actions of housing authority and a housing authority created in one city that

[4:19:29] desires to operate in an adjacent city must come to that city, so in this case, carry.

[4:19:35] and ask for a resolution approving their operation in the city of

[4:19:41] Kerry. So that's what they have done. They came to Kerry and again they've

[4:19:46] explained their timeframe. We are required under state law to provide the

[4:19:51] public hearing notice which we did in compliance with law and then it's

[4:19:55] before you tonight.

[4:19:57] Other questions, please, please,

[4:20:03] other questions,

[4:20:08] other questions?

[4:20:11] Who will the Management Company?

[4:20:13] This is Council Deliveration.

[4:20:15] Thank you.

[4:20:16] Who will the Management Company be?

[4:20:18] Our intention is the Management Company.

[4:20:20] It will be the same management company that's currently there, which is great star.

[4:20:25] Other?

[4:20:27] Can, I'm not sure everybody heard you.

[4:20:31] Can you say that a little bit louder?

[4:20:32] The management company our intention is for it to remain the same.

[4:20:40] Any other questions?

[4:20:41] And the reason I use the word intention is because we're still in the negotiation of a contract.

[4:20:45] We haven't signed a contract and therefore we can't do that.

[4:20:49] That's fair. We can't hold you to it.

[4:20:55] Please. Please.

[4:21:00] I didn't hear.

[4:21:02] At least I didn't hear you say the specifics of the questions I have for staff were about the language.

[4:21:10] of the public notice, the timing, the how and where it was distributed. I don't know who would be best to answer.

[4:21:17] And we complied with state law and preparing the notice and publishing it.

[4:21:20] Because Lisa, just to clarify, my understanding is, you know, I know that language of intense to adopt, you know, a gruesome attention.

[4:21:29] But that's the statutory language. That's the language that informs the public of what your action may be.

[4:21:36] There are, of course, many different ways you could prepare a public notice and that's how that one was prepared.

[4:21:41] The timeline was appropriate. I looked at all of them also.

[4:21:44] And I want to remind everyone that just Tuesday, our mayor per 10 bush proposed to take this proposal out of today's agenda and we did a vote on this past Tuesday.

[4:22:00] that was 3, 2, 3, and today we opened the paddock speaks out, a paddock hearing just

[4:22:08] we are listening to everyone's opinion and I know this is by law we need to listen to everyone's

[4:22:16] opinion and I wish everyone will be respectful to each other because this is in discussion and

[4:22:25] and we are listening to everyone,

[4:22:27] CMS, RHA, we respect everyone's opinion.

[4:22:32] And we haven't, please, please.

[4:22:37] We had the conversation, our staff on Tuesday.

[4:22:41] If you, please let me talk for the council meeting, right?

[4:22:48] That's, we had a conversation with the Lockmeer HOA,

[4:22:53] this Tuesday, noon with our staff.

[4:22:55] and our system temperature.

[4:22:58] We had a very good conversation, and I appreciate

[4:23:02] Loch Nier H-O-A, provide enough information with us.

[4:23:07] And we listened a lot.

[4:23:11] We haven't made any decision at that time.

[4:23:15] So today, the council meeting is for the decision.

[4:23:19] So our council hasn't had any decision on this proposal.

[4:23:24] And on Wednesday, we had a conversation with RHA meeting with most of our council members to deliver all the questions from lock near residents.

[4:23:38] And today during the public hearing, we have heard every question you reached today before the council meeting.

[4:23:48] And I think RHA already received all the concerns from the residents and also from the council.

[4:23:59] I appreciate everyone's respectful opinions, and especially there are children in front of the camera in our council meeting.

[4:24:10] I really appreciate your word or language to be the role model of the future, a dance of

[4:24:20] Kerry. So let's continue the conversation, but please respect the applicant, the council,

[4:24:30] and everyone here. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Wong. So are there any other questions

[4:24:36] for R.I.J. Thank you, gentlemen. Any questions?

[4:24:42] Thank you, Mr. Wheelhand.

[4:24:45] Okay, so I'll give my comments very briefly.

[4:24:50] There's a lot of information.

[4:24:52] Unfortunately, some things were true, some things were not true,

[4:24:56] but I'll give my perspective.

[4:24:59] I do have a vested interest. I live less than a quarter mile from there.

[4:25:04] I've lived in Carries since 1958.

[4:25:08] So I've been here a long time.

[4:25:11] I can talk to things that I thought were interesting,

[4:25:16] the lost revenue.

[4:25:17] And if the Council votes to approve this,

[4:25:19] I would ask that we subtract that from the 1%

[4:25:24] that we give to affordable housing every year.

[4:25:27] As counted as expenditures toward affordable housing,

[4:25:30] I would ask Council to consider that.

[4:25:32] But my biggest problem with this whole thing is how it's been handled.

[4:25:38] I found out somewhere around July 10th,

[4:25:42] I got a staff report on July 13th

[4:25:44] and filled the dozens of emails trying to provide them with the staff reports

[4:25:51] so they would have information.

[4:25:53] But the problem for me is if I am making a decision

[4:25:57] and I can't give the public enough information

[4:26:01] where they understand all the details of it,

[4:26:05] then I shouldn't be defending that decision.

[4:26:08] So I cannot support that.

[4:26:10] Please don't.

[4:26:11] I cannot support that.

[4:26:14] And I realize we might be missing a grand opportunity.

[4:26:18] But we have got to, in the future,

[4:26:21] if you want to work with the Kerry Council,

[4:26:23] you have to work with the public first.

[4:26:26] They are all voices.

[4:26:27] They are the ones that are in charge.

[4:26:28] And they have to understand what we're trying to do.

[4:26:31] And if they don't, then we can't move forward with it.

[4:26:34] So those are my thoughts, and I'll let my council colleagues speak nice.

[4:26:45] I can make a motion.

[4:26:46] Oh, can I make a motion?

[4:26:48] Sure.

[4:26:49] No, I have lots of things to say.

[4:26:51] I just wanted to defer to you as though.

[4:26:52] Oh, I, before, after mayor, I completely agree with mayor,

[4:26:59] because the timing to rush and we had meetings on Tuesday, Wednesday, and we have phone calls

[4:27:08] with all around in partners, and that makes me feel not because of today's public hearing

[4:27:14] the enders here, just because I have the procedure and everything the information is not enough

[4:27:22] for me to support this proposal.

[4:27:28] But during our meeting with Lockmeyer H.O.A. board members, we all agree that affordable housing is important for the carry residents.

[4:27:40] So it's not about affordable housing, it's about the procedure to make decision on this specific proposal.

[4:27:49] That's my comments.

[4:27:52] So, first of all, I want to thank all of you for joining tonight because this is real

[4:27:58] democracy where we hear both sides.

[4:28:00] You know, we all are fighting for the same thing.

[4:28:03] I really appreciate what Libby said in the end.

[4:28:06] You can sum up everybody that we are not fighting against each other.

[4:28:10] It's not a topic about affordable housing, whether we want this and carry or not.

[4:28:16] This council has been very, very responsive and it comes to affordable housing.

[4:28:20] we have gone above and beyond what we could do in the budget, we still move the needle forward

[4:28:27] for affordable housing and we will continue to do that in future.

[4:28:32] What I understand from my very brief conversation with RHA was that they will increase the rent.

[4:28:41] So it is not going to stay where it is today, but it will be at 51% AMI for 60% 80% of the units and about 60% for 10% units.

[4:28:58] So you know, I mean, if you think about this, the rent is still going up.

[4:29:02] It's not, it is that's my understanding.

[4:29:04] And the reason I why I understand the timing issue here because I agree that we didn't have enough time to research everything.

[4:29:15] Everything is so rushed from our side that we don't feel comfortable.

[4:29:19] I don't feel comfortable at this point saying that I can wave this side or that side.

[4:29:26] And so I voted what Councilwoman Bella Wong still said.

[4:29:30] I voted in favor of, you know,

[4:29:33] tabling this for now so that we can take some time

[4:29:36] and understand both perspectives

[4:29:39] and come up with a plan which is best for gay residents.

[4:29:43] I just feel like I don't want to be rushed.

[4:29:46] And in the spirit of exactly what we discussed today,

[4:29:50] and some of my colleagues may not agree with me,

[4:29:53] but this is just my perspective

[4:29:54] I'm just one boat here. In the spirit of what the findings of the state auditors are, I don't

[4:30:07] I'm not looking at this, whether I'm voting in favour of affordable housing or voting against affordable housing, we want affordable housing and these are affordable housing units.

[4:30:18] I actually like the suggestion, even though that is a dream,

[4:30:23] Billaron housing authority, and you know, put a bond and buy this property and manage it by day.

[4:30:31] Why should we let Raleigh take this property and run for us?

[4:30:37] That's just my opinion, though.

[4:30:39] Other comments, thoughts?

[4:30:42] Please.

[4:30:46] I didn't feel that I had enough time to, I couldn't have made a decision on Tuesday.

[4:30:54] I've got a lot of research to talk to a lot of people since then, and I do, I do believe,

[4:31:01] I love room for any new information that I gained tonight, and I didn't gain any new information,

[4:31:06] and I do believe I have enough information to vote tonight.

[4:31:14] I, thanks to RHA for all they do to help contribute to affordable housing, thanks to all of the diverse opinions that are here.

[4:31:23] It takes a lot to get out and speak in front of people.

[4:31:28] Some are speaking for it, some are speaking against it.

[4:31:31] We obviously cannot vote in a way to agree with everyone.

[4:31:34] And I respect my colleagues' views as well.

[4:31:37] I understand that people are upset about the misuse of funds in the town.

[4:31:43] I'm sorry that we did not provide enough oversight.

[4:31:46] We are learning and we will do better.

[4:31:49] It will take time to earn trust.

[4:31:52] I understand the concerns about the loss of tax revenue.

[4:32:00] And perhaps I can get into that more, but I have lots of other things to say.

[4:32:05] I've never been as validated as I am tonight about my choice to run for office.

[4:32:12] I know that everyone does not, I believe you all respect the positions that we hold,

[4:32:19] but I think it's fair to say some of you do not respect me and my role currently as council member.

[4:32:28] That is okay, that is your opinion and that is fair.

[4:32:31] Everyone's opinion is right for them.

[4:32:36] I care deeply about affordable housing.

[4:32:42] I serve as a council member and a teacher to families who receive government assistance, including subsidized housing.

[4:32:51] I work with people who in public education that receive government assistance.

[4:32:58] I am disappointed by some misinformation that I've heard over the last week.

[4:33:07] I'm disappointed especially about a narrative that those receiving a voucher to help offset calls for housing

[4:33:16] may be associated with crime and using drugs.

[4:33:21] It's okay. You're entitled to your opinion.

[4:33:23] I know that some people who live in subsidized housing may use drugs and they may commit crimes,

[4:33:33] but so do other people who live in carry in other places.

[4:33:40] I have taught children who lived in Magdugo Terrace also because of that reference earlier.

[4:33:46] I worked in Durham before I worked in White County Public Schools.

[4:33:48] These are humans that deserve respect and we can address them on individual basis instead of making sweeping statements.

[4:34:00] I have spent hours researching this and I will make the best decisions that I can and if I don't have all the information then I, I own that as well.

[4:34:13] I have searched the Lockmeer website and I may have understood but what I see is that there

[4:34:27] are

[4:34:31] condos, townhouses and single family homes under the Lockmeer Master Association.

[4:34:40] And I can't find anything the map of Lockmear on Lockmear's website when I compare it to where Amber Wood at Lockmear is, if I have not had, if I have incomplete information, I have not been able to find it.

[4:35:00] I am not making my decision tonight based on the statements that they don't need

[4:35:09] renovations or whatever. I'm making my decision based on the fact about having

[4:35:16] naturally occurring affordable housing where families live with the average

[4:35:25] Area meeting income currently is 52 percent. They are already low and moderate income

[4:35:33] individuals and families. I am concerned about their displacement. I see an opportunity

[4:35:41] for someone to come in and help keep them from being displaced. I don't have a crystal ball.

[4:35:48] I am not making any promises, I believe that the best vote for me tonight is to go forward with it is to vote yes for the resolution.

[4:36:04] I respect your opinion even when you do me.

[4:36:13] Please, please.

[4:36:18] I understand the concern that the person raised about certain groups not being able to access subsidized housing.

[4:36:23] I think I saw you over here. I share those concerns also. I do believe the fact that this property is being sold, makes individuals vulnerable, and I hope we can do better at a federal level to help with those policies.

[4:36:43] My view about the tax loss.

[4:36:47] Ladies and gentlemen, please let us deliberate.

[4:36:51] We've been here many hours listening to you.

[4:36:54] Please.

[4:36:56] We received emails and people spoke tonight about the tax loss.

[4:36:59] And there was one particular email that I remember that referred to it as tax loss.

[4:37:04] And I understand that.

[4:37:05] Yes, there will be an effect where,

[4:37:09] I believe it's 237,000 for this year we would not be collecting and then of course that

[4:37:17] would most likely include possibly increase year to year and it's a 30 year commitment.

[4:37:22] We, from the time that I've been on council for the two and a half years, we've put millions

[4:37:27] of dollars into affordable housing every year. We would definitely need a conversation but I'd

[4:37:32] be open to looking at the idea that the mayor had about however much money we want to spend.

[4:37:38] we potentially need to dunk this out.

[4:37:41] This is, in my opinion, not a tax loss,

[4:37:46] but an investment, instead of collecting money

[4:37:49] and putting it into affordable housing,

[4:37:51] we are subsidizing a small tiny bit

[4:37:54] of what could be a great benefit to carry.

[4:37:58] And I know we have some disagreement on that, that is okay.

[4:38:06] No housing, no housing when a position opens

[4:38:10] in an apartment. There is never a promise of whether people in

[4:38:15] Kerry are going to get that or whether it's from another municipality, this will be

[4:38:19] no different.

[4:38:23] I hope that housing authorities continue to want to come to

[4:38:29] Kerry. I believe this is our opportunity and if this turns out to be a

[4:38:40] Ladies and gentlemen, please allow civil discourse.

[4:38:44] Please, I'm begging you. Let her finish.

[4:38:47] Then we can take a vote.

[4:38:49] Okay. We don't know yet if this will pass or not.

[4:38:53] Right now, you can see that we are divided and that is okay because just like you all,

[4:38:58] we have different opinions and we have different comfort levels with things.

[4:39:03] But if it passes, this is rally housing authorities first opportunity outside of rally.

[4:39:10] every new thing that starts has a first. I don't believe their predatory and coming to carry,

[4:39:17] but if I'm wrong, I will own my mistake.

[4:39:22] Please.

[4:39:26] Ladies and gentlemen, please let us finish.

[4:39:30] But I can easily justify the investment of taking this tax exemption and putting it into affordable

[4:39:39] housing. There are multiple entities in Carey that already exist as a tax

[4:39:46] exempt entities. This is not a first. And I'm happy to see what my

[4:39:55] colleagues say. Who would like to go next? I'm happy to because you know

[4:40:01] while I came to a very different conclusion I do agree with much of what

[4:40:07] you just said. And thank you for, you know, the fortitude to sit and say it all. I appreciate

[4:40:14] that I do. I do particularly feel strongly that preserving naturally occurring affordable

[4:40:21] housing is something that is well worth our time and energy. And it's just so difficult

[4:40:28] to do. It's probably one of the most difficult things to do. You know, I've yet to hear any

[4:40:35] better proposal than what was described by the, you know, the report and the materials and

[4:40:42] what the, the leaders of the housing authority described, where what their intention is and

[4:40:51] I believe this to be right and true, I believe their intention is to preserve that naturally

[4:40:56] occurring affordable housing. And I do support that. I live in, you know, 20 years in the most

[4:41:02] affordable area of carry which has become wildly

[4:41:05] unaffordable, very quickly here downtown.

[4:41:08] So, you know, every time I see a affordable house

[4:41:12] torn down, my heart breaks and I do want to be a part

[4:41:16] of the solution.

[4:41:18] And ideas like this, I would welcome a collaboration.

[4:41:23] I spoke to a member of the Raleigh Council today,

[4:41:27] shortly before coming to this meeting.

[4:41:29] And, you know, we had a really nice brief discussion of, you know, Wake County, Raleigh,

[4:41:36] Carey, other municipalities in Wake County, collaborating makes a lot of sense.

[4:41:42] You see it in our other regional partners, you see it in the Greater Raleigh area, habitat

[4:41:47] for humanity, you see it in the Raleigh area of land trust.

[4:41:52] So I do believe there's a future for us in collaborating with other entities.

[4:41:58] these, that being said, I think I owe my colleagues in apology, because they wanted us to consider

[4:42:07] removing this from tonight's agenda, and I fought against that, because I think there's

[4:42:12] two problematic things that happen.

[4:42:15] Our residents believe we vote, yes, on everything, and we agree too much.

[4:42:20] And in this case, we certainly don't agree too much, and we're not all voting, yes.

[4:42:25] And I felt as though it was important for the ugly part of this process to be done publicly.

[4:42:33] I expected a little more, you know, mutual respect in the process,

[4:42:37] but so be at your angry with us and you have every right to be angry.

[4:42:41] So that this is the discourse and this is what I think needed to happen.

[4:42:46] But there is no reasonable reason why we shouldn't do this exactly how we just discussed.

[4:42:53] And that's transparently.

[4:42:55] We just found out about this and I argued to my colleagues that if we refused to hear this

[4:43:01] in the timeline that was necessary for the housing authority to move forward with this project,

[4:43:08] we're making it a decision by not making it a decision and that is not how I work.

[4:43:12] I don't avoid hard votes, hard questions, hard answers, and I don't anymore that I respond to being bullied into it.

[4:43:20] I'm not going to be bullied into this, but I did consider all of the information that was

[4:43:26] available to me and my answer really is not now, maybe at some point I don't know what a great

[4:43:34] project looks like. I do believe that mixed income is right for carry. I've said it for four years.

[4:43:39] I'll say it for four more. I do believe those projects are right here. I want to do more to shore up

[4:43:49] that were like me 30 years ago and didn't have two nickels to rub together and really needed

[4:43:54] a lot of help or a little help or some help at all.

[4:43:57] And I do know there are so many people in this community that want to be part of that

[4:44:02] solution and I want to say we do hear you even when we can't move forward on the

[4:44:09] thing that's in front of us that you feel so strongly about.

[4:44:12] And I'm sorry about that,

[4:44:17] but I can't support this, based off of the merits of what's in front of me how quickly we had to consider this case and come to a decision.

[4:44:31] You want to go next or last?

[4:44:33] I guess I'll go next.

[4:44:36] So on the spirit of transparency on Tuesday, I made a motion to table this.

[4:44:42] As everybody has shared, we were six people.

[4:44:46] The mayor was unfortunately not able to be there and it was the vote as we said was three to three and a tie the vote fails

[4:44:54] So that's what happened on on Tuesday and there was a reason as everybody has

[4:45:00] Chair, the reason at that time was I had been also contacted by a rally council member who had some concerns.

[4:45:09] We had, I had some concerns about the RHA governance. How does it work?

[4:45:14] You know, I have a similar question that you all brought up. How does rally working in carry work?

[4:45:21] You know, we don't, as you all brought up, we don't have a seat on board. What does governance look like?

[4:45:27] And although we've absolutely followed the process and that is the state process, this

[4:45:35] is very different than a rezoning where you have months and months to weigh in.

[4:45:43] The average rezoning takes a year or more, maybe two years.

[4:45:47] So there's lots of opportunity to weigh in to hear, to talk back, and this process is compressed

[4:45:54] two weeks. As you learned, we got most of our information just a couple of weeks ago. So that

[4:46:01] is new information. We're also not done this before. So everyone's doing their little bit of

[4:46:08] our own research, looking at what's in front of us, and I also knew that by making the proposal

[4:46:16] to table it was making a decision to not make a decision, right? Because basically they have

[4:46:24] a timeline as well. I think, as Council Member Conjonson said, I think a housing authority

[4:46:33] and carry is a good idea. Whether it's Raleigh, whether it's a regional partnership, whether

[4:46:38] it's weight counting, whether it's our own carry, I don't know what the right answer is,

[4:46:44] But certainly, having that ability to take advantage as RAH can do in that tax way that they can allows us to invest in affordable housing, just as a side note, we invested in the senior affordable housing called Rose Park Manor, where there are 81 units.

[4:47:10] That, those 81 units cost carry $3 million, it cost weight counting almost $3 million, and they received more than $25 million in tax credits for 81 units.

[4:47:25] Now, it is a lovely place if you don't, or you know people that are there.

[4:47:29] But that is quite the investment for a small number.

[4:47:33] So in comparison to the 340,

[4:47:36] that this investment is much more affordable

[4:47:40] if you were to compare them.

[4:47:43] And there were one last thing that Amber Wood is a lovely community.

[4:47:50] I grew up in a single family home

[4:47:57] in subsidized housing, and I know what it's like to not have food on the table, but be entirely grateful for a roof over my head.

[4:48:09] It is, no one wants to be there, and Kerry is becoming continually more unaffordable for many of the people that live here.

[4:48:19] Amber Woods, we received some demographics. Amber Woods's median age is 31.

[4:48:24] The people that live there and this is real life data are many our teachers and nurses first responders, child care workers and service workers, that is real hard data of the folks who serve our community and I know that this is an important opportunity.

[4:48:46] And at my challenges from Tuesday still remain, I don't have the answers to a lot of the things that I need, which are, how does Raleigh Governance work and carry?

[4:49:06] How does the two million dollars, that was due diligence, or earnest money, was that role

[4:49:15] these money, or you're going to want that back from Kerry?

[4:49:21] What is the place that we have?

[4:49:24] Where's the say that Kerry will have?

[4:49:27] But the biggest concern I have right this moment is the fact that we don't, I'm very glad

[4:49:32] brought up. We don't know enough about the covenants. We know that our ordinance will obviously

[4:49:39] still play a role. There are too many unanswered questions still for me. They have not changed.

[4:49:49] A bunch of them were answered. I will give RHA credit for that. But there's still a number of other

[4:49:55] questions that need to be answered for me.

[4:49:58] I am an affordable housing advocate.

[4:50:01] I believe the folks that live in Amber

[4:50:04] which would stay in Amber would,

[4:50:06] and I want this to happen,

[4:50:10] but I don't have enough information to support it at this time.

[4:50:13] And that's where I am going to

[4:50:20] go.

[4:50:20] I'll make some brief remarks,

[4:50:22] but Council Member Craig has one more question.

[4:50:26] Oh, first of all, I thought you met after.

[4:50:28] I would, I would like that, I would like RHA to answer the question about the $2 million

[4:50:38] because I was told that no money was received from the city of Raleigh

[4:50:49] and Mayor to

[4:50:54] the person, Lori Bush, was in a different meeting than me.

[4:50:58] So I want to make sure we have both the information.

[4:51:00] No, I'm glad you, it was one of my questions on my list to ask him, I first.

[4:51:04] So the question again is the $2 million in earnest money that was paid.

[4:51:10] Yeah, so that money is refundable and will come back to the housing authority.

[4:51:15] Then money, I think she was asking where it came from, was it Raleigh's?

[4:51:19] Have you read, I would hold you had not received me from the city of Raleigh?

[4:51:24] No, no, no, we don't, we just saw on resources.

[4:51:27] So could you, it tells a tiny bit more, we're probably voting no, it sounds like, but could

[4:51:33] you provide a time because I think it's important that people know that I do a did do research.

[4:51:39] I mean, I'm gathered this information, but where are you get your funding?

[4:51:43] Where do we, the housing authority does have reserves that are unrestricted from operation

[4:51:50] of properties that are non-federal and not subsidized?

[4:51:54] we have workforce housing, that pays for itself, and earns, you know, has cash flow.

[4:52:02] So, with reserves built up, we can make that investment.

[4:52:07] And we also have other sources of income in bond fees, that we issue bonds for all tax credit deals

[4:52:18] in the county and we earn bond fees for that.

[4:52:20] So we do have unrestricted funds coming in that we can use doors.

[4:52:26] Other properties have those been funded by the city of Raleigh.

[4:52:34] No, we have not received any funding from the city of Raleigh for this.

[4:52:38] Can you walk there?

[4:52:39] Were those projects funded similarly to what you described to me when I asked you how

[4:52:46] funding works with these kind of self-funding where you purchase the property and the

[4:52:53] rents are really what's paying the mortgage, so to speak.

[4:52:56] So, which property is the property that we developed?

[4:52:59] What we're trying to understand is, remember I kept asking you is there any commingling

[4:53:05] of rally taxpayer funds with how you're paying for this project and I think we're trying

[4:53:12] really understand, you know, break down to the penny, whether or not there is.

[4:53:19] I mean, the short answers, there's no rally tax money that is going into this, not at all.

[4:53:29] Thank you.

[4:53:30] Thank you.

[4:53:31] Appreciate it.

[4:53:33] Okay, folks, I'm last and it's late and I'm clearly not casting the deciding vote,

[4:53:39] so I don't really have to offer a comment, but I feel compelled to speak to the constituents

[4:53:45] of Carrie so you understand why I cast a vote the way that I do and I'm going to be up front

[4:53:51] to give you time to react so that hopefully I can get through the rest of my remarks and tell

[4:53:55] you that I am voting yesterday.

[4:54:00] The resolution is not going to pass so like I said this is not decisive

[4:54:05] but in the interest of transparency I want to let you know why my vote is yes and so council is not

[4:54:12] passed with making decisions slowly.

[4:54:14] We are charged with making decisions thoughtfully

[4:54:17] and seeking community input.

[4:54:19] And as evidenced by my full inbox

[4:54:22] and the full house here tonight, residents are engaged.

[4:54:26] And I agree with my colleagues,

[4:54:30] if they feel that they did not have enough time

[4:54:32] to have their questions answered,

[4:54:34] then they should not vote for it.

[4:54:36] I however feel that I had enough time

[4:54:38] to have my questions answered to my satisfaction.

[4:54:42] That was talking to our counterparts in Raleigh.

[4:54:45] That was meeting with the applicant.

[4:54:47] That was consulting police chief salt about crimes

[4:54:51] statistics in our community.

[4:54:53] And so what I heard here today was a lot of concerns about change,

[4:54:57] which I totally understand.

[4:54:59] I drove through Amber Wood myself today.

[4:55:02] And it's lovely.

[4:55:03] I see why you don't want to change it.

[4:55:05] the change of ownership is not our choice, the current owner is selling and the current owner

[4:55:11] is an investment firm in Florida and so, you know, the concerns about if the ownership

[4:55:16] has the interest of carry at heart, the ownership of any given property doesn't necessarily

[4:55:21] have ties to our community and so I was willing to think of our partners and our neighbors

[4:55:26] in Raleigh as owners that would be owners in good faith as any owners were and that's not

[4:55:32] cast aspersions on a ownership company in another state, but they are also not local neighbors.

[4:55:41] They don't, you know, that company is not based in carry.

[4:55:44] And so I believe of all the likely outcomes that RHA ownership is a scenario most likely

[4:55:51] to keep the community the same.

[4:55:53] The residents who live there now stay in their homes, professional property management stays

[4:55:57] the same.

[4:55:58] affordable housing has been a top concern, not just of many on council, but also the community.

[4:56:04] And it was one of the top concerns of our most recent carry survey.

[4:56:08] And what I hear most often is that carry is a prosperous community,

[4:56:14] but people are getting priced out of living here.

[4:56:17] And honestly, I hear less about building brand new affordable housing, which is an important tool,

[4:56:22] but I think folks think more about maintaining the affordable housing for the people that live here.

[4:56:27] I personally don't think it's a myth or a fallacy to say that preserving Amber would means

[4:56:34] that the teachers and the firefighters and the police officers who live there now would

[4:56:38] get to stay there. The other population I hear a lot about is when people say, I raise my

[4:56:45] children and carry. I'd love for them to, they went away to college, they want to move back,

[4:56:49] I'd love for them to be able to live here. Well, those are the young professionals, the median

[4:56:54] page 31, those are the people who are living in Amberwood.

[4:56:59] And I see a parallel with Chadama states, one of the commenters mentioned Chadama states.

[4:57:04] That situation just made a lot of neighbors that carry residents were being displaced.

[4:57:10] And in that case, carry couldn't intervene.

[4:57:12] We assisted our nonprofit partners, but we couldn't prevent that displacement from happening.

[4:57:17] And in this case, we do have an opportunity to preserve a community.

[4:57:21] And so I believe the investment is worth it, especially compared to the cost of new construction, and that's why I'm voting yesterday.

[4:57:30] Anybody else?

[4:57:33] We're ready for emotion.

[4:57:35] I would entertain a motion.

[4:57:39] If you want to.

[4:57:41] I'm sorry.

[4:57:43] The council member Fong had mentioned that she wanted to make a motion.

[4:57:46] So I wasn't sure if you still want to.

[4:57:48] because similar to Tuesday, I still, on the same page,

[4:57:54] would love to table this, Lisa, I can,

[4:58:01] I think RHS made it clear if we table it, that will be effectively a no vote.

[4:58:09] Of course, you can make that motion if you would like.

[4:58:12] I would just say that tabling from my perspective, I would support a table.

[4:58:19] You haven't made the motion yet, so I'll just say that because my concerns do need additional information.

[4:58:27] And I do think that some of these, over time I might have the answer in order to vote.

[4:58:34] Yes or no.

[4:58:35] but right now, if I'm pressed to vote,

[4:58:38] I don't have enough answers to support it.

[4:58:41] But if you were to vote on the table in it,

[4:58:43] I would support that if that was your motion.

[4:58:46] But again, we do know that the RHA has said

[4:58:50] that they need the answer to vote.

[4:58:53] Before, next Monday, which is essentially no?

[4:58:59] Yes, a table in this proposal means no.

[4:59:07] If that is your motion.

[4:59:10] My motion is to table the RHA to put his emberwood in carry.

[4:59:18] Is there a second?

[4:59:21] It's the same motion we did on Tuesday.

[4:59:25] I would just like clarification from Lisa please on understanding that RHA has their own independent decision

[4:59:34] to make, whether this is a vote to table or this is an upper-down vote, is there any practical

[4:59:38] difference to us in terms of calling this a table, you know, in terms of saying that we're

[4:59:46] tabling it or in just voting no. I mean, does this obligate us to then have to return to it

[4:59:53] on another agenda or it doesn't obligate you, it leaves it open so that it comes back to you

[4:59:59] the future.

[5:00:00] You may not ever bring it up again.

[5:00:04] So, I mean, couldn't it also, if we voted it, no tonight, still come before us again?

[5:00:10] The housing authority or different housing authority would need to make a different proposal.

[5:00:17] So, we have a motion on the table two and a second.

[5:00:20] And the second to table this item.

[5:00:23] And I understand, to be clear, I understand that folks on this table, some are ready to make a decision.

[5:00:30] But my reason still stands that I don't have enough to support it, so I think I agree with Mayor Brutan Bush.

[5:00:40] That's exactly what I said.

[5:00:41] I don't have enough information toward yes or no.

[5:00:45] I mean, if I really have to work today, it would be no.

[5:00:50] Between yes and no.

[5:00:53] Please, please.

[5:00:56] So in discussion, I will support your motion.

[5:00:59] but that I'm thinking that is a no vote.

[5:01:03] So that is the vote you know.

[5:01:06] All right, so any other comments and discussion,

[5:01:09] there's a motion on the table, all in favor.

[5:01:11] Please say aye.

[5:01:13] Aye.

[5:01:13] Those opposed.

[5:01:16] So motion carries five, two.

[5:01:21] And this item is tailored to the council.

[5:01:25] The council will now take a five minute recess.

[5:01:28] Council

[5:08:22] meeting at this time, we have two discussion items. First discussion item is twenty-five

[5:08:28] R.E.Z.O.O.-3. K.L.X. Senior Living of Carey Resonning and Planning Manager Aaron

[5:08:34] Puckett will give a report and we'll hear from the planning and zoning. We'll hear the

[5:08:39] planning and zoning boards recommendation and council may take action. Thank you and good

[5:08:45] evening council. On a lighter note, this request is to resume an approximately 7.4 acres

[5:08:50] located at 1,000, 5, and 1,017 redecorate. You all to public hearing for this request last year in June

[5:08:58] and you may make a decision this evening. The site is located south of the intersection of North

[5:09:03] Harrison Avenue and redecorate road with front-age on both streets and it's largely surrounded

[5:09:07] by detached residential development. The Parks Recreation and Culture Resources System plan

[5:09:14] indicates a greenway corridor along the southern edge of the property. The site is currently

[5:09:19] zone, R-40, and the applicant proposes to reason the site to office and institutional

[5:09:25] conditional use, or O and I-C. The applicant has offered several zoning conditions,

[5:09:34] to limit uses on the site to life care community and nursing home, for context these

[5:09:39] uses could include facilities similar to searstone or Glen Air. Additional conditions

[5:09:44] include a minimum of 40 and maximum of 75 residential units, which would be just over

[5:09:50] 10 units per acre, commit to construction of the green way on site as shown on that PRCR

[5:09:57] system plan I showed a moment ago, and to construct it at least 35 feet from the southern

[5:10:02] property line, such than an average 30 foot wide area where we may not disturb, limit

[5:10:08] buildings on the site to one story and 35 feet in height, provide a 75 foot building step

[5:10:14] from the Southern property line, as well as a 75-foot parking space that back from the Southern property line.

[5:10:21] Dry BIOS could be closer. Provide a bus stop pad along the North Harrison Avenue front-edge,

[5:10:29] and provide a slide path along the North Harrison Avenue front-edge consistent with the PRC

[5:10:33] our system plan and bike plan. That would be a 12-foot wide facility, but could be reduced to

[5:10:38] no less than eight feet in constrained situations. That would be reviewed and approved by staff at

[5:10:43] of development plan.

[5:10:46] The planning and zoning board reviewed the request at their March meeting

[5:10:49] earlier this year. Board members had generally positive comments that noted the proposed uses

[5:10:54] are needed in carry. One member requested the applicants ensure a minimum number of units. Some

[5:11:00] noted the need for a wider multi-modal facility along North Harrison at the time of six foot sidewalk

[5:11:05] was offered. And, excuse me, and some commented that larger buffers are open space could help

[5:11:13] of transitions to nearby residential neighborhoods.

[5:11:17] Ultimately, the board did find it consistent

[5:11:19] with the Carey Community Plan by a vote of a tone.

[5:11:24] The applicant made a number of changes

[5:11:25] with the proposal following the planning and zoning board meeting.

[5:11:29] They added that minimum number of units for 40 units

[5:11:32] in addition to the maximum.

[5:11:34] They increased the greenway separation

[5:11:36] from those southern property line by five feet,

[5:11:38] so the minimum separation would now be 35 feet.

[5:11:41] I do note this condition does not supersede

[5:11:43] LDO requirements, limiting buffer disturbance.

[5:11:46] So it is possible the LDO could require the trail

[5:11:48] to have a slightly greater separation

[5:11:50] at time of development plan.

[5:11:54] They also increase the minimum side path

[5:11:56] along the North Harris and Avenue frontage.

[5:11:58] Previously, they had offered six foot sidewalk

[5:12:00] and now they've offered to meet the 12-bit wide option

[5:12:02] in the PRCR system plan and bike plan,

[5:12:05] but narrow it to eight feet in areas of constraint

[5:12:08] as approved by carry staff.

[5:12:12] Staff on the proposed use is consistent with live policies

[5:12:15] and is supported by the future growth framework designation.

[5:12:19] The shape policy regarding transitions is addressed by an increased building set back

[5:12:23] and the one-story building form.

[5:12:26] The commitment to constructing the site's green-way segment

[5:12:28] and providing a multi-modal facility on North Harrison Avenue

[5:12:31] helps meet move and engage policies.

[5:12:35] There's no clear commitment to open-space or tree preservation

[5:12:37] beyond minimum LDO requirements to address and rich

[5:12:41] but overall the proposal meets most applicable

[5:12:43] plan policies and staff therefore recommends a approval

[5:12:46] of the request.

[5:12:49] This concludes my presentation.

[5:12:51] I'm available for questions and the applicants team

[5:12:53] is also available.

[5:12:54] Should you have questions for them?

[5:12:55] Thank you, Ms. Puckett.

[5:12:56] Do we have questions from us?

[5:12:59] Or are we ready for a motion?

[5:13:01] I just have one quick question.

[5:13:03] I know.

[5:13:04] I know.

[5:13:05] How tall is a one story building usually?

[5:13:08] So it depends.

[5:13:09] This is more of an institutional type building.

[5:13:12] So it could be more like 15 feet, but that's not a requirement in our code.

[5:13:17] Can you explain one story slash 35 foot, then to me?

[5:13:20] So they could go up to 35 feet.

[5:13:22] We have had facilities, even apartments in the past,

[5:13:25] that have sort of a one and a half story appearance.

[5:13:28] We're have like a mezzanine, type, trim, yes.

[5:13:32] So this just gives them some flexibility.

[5:13:34] Should they have high ceilings?

[5:13:36] OK. Thank you.

[5:13:37] I just couldn't get past them.

[5:13:40] I understand, yes, that's my only question.

[5:13:44] Other questions?

[5:13:44] I just have an observation.

[5:13:46] It feels lonely here now.

[5:13:48] What's that?

[5:13:49] It feels lonely here now.

[5:13:51] You're lonely.

[5:13:52] Come on.

[5:13:53] Does that's for some giggles?

[5:13:56] I just wanted to say that I appreciate the changes made

[5:13:59] since planning and zoning board.

[5:14:02] And we have, there's a shortage of CCRCs and it's growing.

[5:14:06] And so that would be a welcome addition to the community,

[5:14:09] because that's exactly the kind of facility we really need.

[5:14:13] And I'm not going to repeat anything anyone else said.

[5:14:17] So moving and getting along.

[5:14:19] I appreciate specifically the wider sidewalk to 12 feet, especially for bike

[5:14:25] folks, and understanding is narrower.

[5:14:29] The other thing is that I reached out to some folks and I find it very interesting.

[5:14:34] We didn't receive any email from any concerned homeowners this time.

[5:14:39] So if they let it go, or they're okay with the changes as well.

[5:14:46] Yeah, they must be okay, but I appreciate all the conditions

[5:14:49] and I think this is going to be a great project.

[5:14:52] Yeah, I'll be candid and say,

[5:14:54] you know, we don't make a decision until we are taking a vote.

[5:14:58] And so I was leaning no on this.

[5:15:00] It felt me a little bit like. You know, we know that the land that's left to develop and carries often, not yet developed because it presents logistical challenges. And so it felt to me that maybe we were having a little bit of a square peg in a round hole situation here, despite the real need for the housing. But I'm also happy to see the changes since planning and zoning. I think the applicant was mindful of that. You know, whenever we're making any one of these decisions, thinking about,

[5:15:29] also what are the alternatives and, you know, we have so many pressures for density and height.

[5:15:37] And so for this to be a needed type of housing with a height that's going to fit in with a

[5:15:43] neighborhood character. We've addressed some of the transition issues by extending the the

[5:15:49] buffer. I appreciate all those measures. Make a motion that we move to adopt the following

[5:15:56] Dr. Mithatatch to the online agenda for the State of Independence Consistency for 25REC,

[5:16:01] O3 Calix, Senior Living of Care and the Resonating Ordinance for 25REC, 03 Calix, Senior Living of Care.

[5:16:09] There's the motion and a second.

[5:16:10] Further discussion.

[5:16:12] All in favor, please say aye.

[5:16:14] E. A. P.O. is motion carries unanimously.

[5:16:16] Thank you, Ms. Bucket.

[5:16:17] Thank you.

[5:16:18] Now moved to our last discussion item.

[5:16:20] Yeah, it's anti-retaliation policy protection for reporting and proper activities.

[5:16:28] Interim town manager Russ overdone will present the Sodom in Council May, Tech Actual, Mr. Overtime.

[5:16:34] Thank you, Mayor, before you with just a little bit of night left is a new policy to establish

[5:16:39] an anti-retaliation policy and we talked about this in more detail at this past Tuesday's work session.

[5:16:46] Kerry does not have a formal standalone anti-rotalliation policy to provide comprehensive

[5:16:51] organization-wide coverage.

[5:16:53] We do, however, have policies and standards on anti-harassment, non-discriminate nation,

[5:16:59] as well as grievance procedures that provide some protections.

[5:17:04] Not going to read them all, but this policy implementation mentions three of, is mentioned

[5:17:15] on the screen? It's policy would also establish a tip line and we are currently that someone

[5:17:22] could call and report retaliation and we'll research options and make that part of the standard

[5:17:29] procedure as we implement it. There is no direct fiscal impact associated with approving this policy,

[5:17:35] however, with the tip line operating tip line, there could be some calls. We'll research that and if

[5:17:40] it's of a appropriate fee that we need budget appropriations, we'll bring that back to you. So the next

[5:17:46] steps of Council approves this anti-retaliation policy.

[5:17:50] We'll publish it, we'll communicate it to staff and throughout the

[5:17:53] organization there'll be training and we'll develop the

[5:17:56] supporting standard procedure to be able to implement it.

[5:17:59] So with that, we'd recommend that Council adopt a policy

[5:18:04] statement, 190 for anti-retaliation protection for reporting and

[5:18:07] improper activity.

[5:18:09] And I want to point out that we also, as was recommended by Council

[5:18:13] on Tuesday's work session, add the language to the policy that you were emailed earlier today

[5:18:20] that I believe it states direct to create a standard procedure to further implement this policy

[5:18:25] to include requirements for training for new and existing employees on a periodic basis.

[5:18:30] Thank you for that. I appreciate it. I think I also sent you an email,

[5:18:34] about how do we report this back to the council?

[5:18:41] Can we, can we have some sort of reporting structure on a quarterly basis on how does the

[5:18:48] feedback or things working and you know what kind of issues are we hearing about?

[5:18:54] Okay, I probably didn't see that with all the other emails of the day, what if we, obviously,

[5:19:01] You know, recommending that to adopt this policy statement, we work on that within a standard

[5:19:05] procedure and try to implement it in that way and then also give us some time to think

[5:19:09] about it because we'll have to be careful how we report and we probably need to be thoughtful

[5:19:14] on how we report because there's an anonymity to this with regards to who, so if it's data

[5:19:20] and how many calls or something like that, I'm sure that would be easy to report, but

[5:19:25] maybe we work that into the standard somehow and certainly you can always ask me for anything

[5:19:30] you like? Okay. That's fine. No, I'm saying that's fine. Just putting that into standard

[5:19:38] operating procedure. Other questions or are we ready for most quick comments? I just want

[5:19:46] to say that I'm sorry that we didn't push for a survey last year. We requested a year prior

[5:19:52] for a survey to happen for employees and I take personal responsibility. I did not follow up

[5:19:58] that and I'm sorry for that and I'm sorry that as was described in the wobble bond, it can

[5:20:07] send report today that a negative workplace culture developed and that we were not able to

[5:20:14] prevent or that from happening or from making it worse and so then I'm happy we're putting things

[5:20:20] wow I'm happy that we're putting things into place to help make sure that doesn't happen in the future

[5:20:27] If we vote yes anybody else ready for a motion I

[5:20:36] moved that the council adopts policy statement when 90 the anti-retellation

[5:20:40] protection for reporting improper activity a second not motion in a second

[5:20:45] discussion all in favor please say aye aye any opposed motion very unanimously that

[5:20:50] concludes our business I would entertain a motion to oh so moved second there's a

[5:20:56] Motion in a second to adjourn. Discussion. All in fact, let's say aye.

[5:21:01] Opposed. Motion carries.

[5:21:02] And we are adjourned.

[5:21:04] On Thursday.

[5:21:05] Is it?

[5:21:06] On Thursday.

Cary Council Meeting – July 23, 2026

Transcript