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Call this meeting to order. Let me call
the role. The role. Uh Shannon

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» here.
Ben

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» here.
>> Joe

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» here.
>> Yeah, me. I'm here, I think. Uh Karen's

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not here yet. She may be. Diane can't
make it. So Dan, Diane and presently

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Corine
are not here, but they may join us

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later.
>> Britney, we're still missing two.

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» Britney's not coming. She just sent an
email.

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» Okay.
>> She may log in at 8. She's stuck in on

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the on her commute home.
>> All right, Britney is not here either,

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but still we have a forum and we need
seven. There's seven members I think.

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» Yep.
>> And four and the rules really read a

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majority of members and four is the
quorum. Four is that. So we are we have

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a quorum.
Okay. Let me start the meeting. Could

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you go to the first U slide?
Excuse me, M. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.

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Just a just [clears throat] a notation.
Meeting opened at 7:08 p.m.

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All right.
Okay, let's start the meeting. Um, this

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is uh just a list of of deadlines
uh for the warrant. I'm not sure that we

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want to submit anything, but they asked
me to distribute and there it is. Um we

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do have items that will end up going on
a town meeting of course the um the

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rental assistance program
and I think uh but I think that's

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probably for the ne the spring usual
spring uh town meeting. So we'll defer

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that to then. And I think too uh when it
comes time we should for for the spring

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meeting consider whether we need to have
a regular budget. In the past we have

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not had a budget. We relied on the fact
that um we can draw funds from the

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affordable housing trust but the funds
in the affordable housing trust are

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getting down there and we have other
uses for it. So it might be worth

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considering but not and how we feel we
need to do it now for the ball meeting.

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Um so unless any questions we'll move on
to the next topic.

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Okay here's the minute. Uh there's the
agenda

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and the minutes. Here's Channing has
prepared the minutes. Has everybody had

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a chance to review the minutes which I
said

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» my name's My name's spelled wrong.
There's an S on the end of it. My name

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is also spelled wrong at the top. Vermin
is V R M I N. Okay,

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» let me let me
>> but it's spelled correctly later in the

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notes. So I don't know
>> cuz I didn't catch well. That's why

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that's why I didn't catch it.
>> Is it close?

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» Did I come close?
>> No, it's a guy. I don't know.

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» Okay.
>> The A is same to an I. What else? Wendy,

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» say say it again.
>> Your name is misspelled somewhere. You

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said
>> Yeah, there invitees present. There's an

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S at the end of Trinks.

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» Oh,
yeah. Yeah, I got that changed. Okay.

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Verable. I will entertain a motion to uh
accept the minutes as modified.

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So moved.
>> Do I hear a second?

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» A second.
>> All in favor? We'll have to do a roll

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call vote. Uh Channing. Channing in
favor. Ben.

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» Me. I

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» Okay, the minutes are approved.
Thank you very much.

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Okay, what do we got next here?
Do

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» you want me to go up to the
>> Yeah. Now the next item is under old

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business is just to keep track is has
there any been anything new any response

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about the estate planning letter that we
submitted some time ago? Ian, you're

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probably the person who knows best about
that.

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» Uh as of now, no. I'd be happy to
continue to explore other options, but

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I've reached out to I think two other
folks at the EO EOHLC now and I did call

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the general line twice and left an email
on the general housing help

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email that they have there and I haven't
gotten anything. Mind you, that was last

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week, but
um yeah, I have not gotten anything

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there. I'm still happy to to continue
trying any

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new solutions if if uh some members
should have any, but it's

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» I don't know the politics of of
HO ELC that well, but um does anybody

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have any suggestions for anything else
to try? It is an important issue. Maybe

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they're just trying to not deal with it.
I don't know. Any

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It sounds like trying all the things I
can think of. Ian.

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» Well, okay. I'll
>> If anybody can find a phone number, I'd

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be happy to call them. The only thing is
I was calling the a couple of the like

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the EOHLC numbers including the one for
questions and I left uh several a couple

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voice messages. So if you can find a
voice message for someone, I'd be happy

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to call them.

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» Well,
okay.

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Do we have I mean I don't I haven't
dealt with the the group for a while.

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I'll look through the uh directory and
see if there's anybody in there yet

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still that I know. Uh is there anybody
that is in town government that's likely

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to know of a a name to call? Um I think
it's would it's a good suggestion, but

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it'd be good to find out who would be a
a person who might return your call.

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Oh
>> yeah, I can I I should I'll ask Alec if

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he has anyone. Really? I don't know. I
mean, unless Wendy has someone, but

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» um
>> I can also go up the ladder and maybe

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try Stephanie and Amanda.
>> Stephanie might be a good source of

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information. She presumably deals with
those folks more than we do. Although I

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wouldn't be surprised if they just send
me they probably one person they would

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send me to is is Whitney who I had been
emailing five six times over now.

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» Well, you never know. There might be
somebody else. You might get some other

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guidance. Um
>> yeah, it's a good it's it's really one

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of the only options I can think of right
now. So,

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» well, good luck.
>> Thank you. Thank you very much for your

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» certainly could use it. Yeah, no
problem.

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» Um, okay.
>> I think I'm up with the presentation.

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» Yes. Now, this is a separate.
>> Yes. Yep. Um, sorry for not getting this

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sooner. I was out for a few days,
but

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» So, can you can you
>> Yeah. Can you can you take down your

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» Oh, I did. Okay. Give me one second and
I should be able to.

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» But you have the share feature.
>> Yep. And then I just need to Oh my. Come

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on.

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All right. I should be able to do so
now.

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How does this look, guys?

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» Great. Yeah, I should say this is one
this is one thing we decided on at the

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last meeting that it seemed zoning was a
important factor however mysterious. So

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this is an educ educational effort on
the part of Ian to

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» help us navigate this difficult topic.
>> Thank you. And this is this is uh this

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is off just a couple days of of
research, but also kind of lot of

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conversations that like I've had with
Finn as as she's come by the office. Um

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Channing and Al have kind of picked my
brain about and we have these several

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options that we've talked about. Um, but
it's good to kind of see them put on the

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table into one presentation like this
where I'd say Joe's presentation is uh

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kind of big idea options of like sell
versus keep and uh keep and develop

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versus this is more just focused on
reszoning and trying to answer the

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technical questions um that the board
may have as well as give these options

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in regards to reszoning this lot because
we've been kind of asking ourselves or

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at least some folks have been asking me
about them. So, I have six options that

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we're going to kind of go through. Um, I
kind of ordered them in most realistic,

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maybe most feasible um to ones that have
maybe more challenges, but we'll get

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through them and I'm happy to answer as
many questions as I'm possibly able to

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to uh get through on on each of these.
So, it's really just six slides after

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this, but let me begin. So, option one
is kind of a broad one that it captures

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a couple of these different further
options, but uh we'll just call it

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sightsp specific overlay zoning. Um, so
there's no real picture of how to

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demonstrate what a overlay zone may look
like. There's overlay zones in Boston

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just as there are overlay zones out in
the B birkars. uh it can really take any

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any shape or form. And then the state
also has their own overlay districts

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which are some of the options that we'll
see later. That's why I I was talking

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about that. So um the AR agricultural
residential district will stay this

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middle layer, this zoning layer. Um, and
then we will kind of create from scratch

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our own overlay district to then put
over this um this 72 road property. And

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and you know, if if we want future if we
want the potential for uh future growth

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and there's spots nearby, then it may
also be worthwhile to uh explore kind of

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beyond just that single um parcel. But
for the time being, it would definitely

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be over that single parcel. Um, and we
would need to very similar path to the

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MBTA communities district. The only
thing is with the MBTA communities

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district, we obviously had a lot of help
and support from um the EOHLC to shape

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up that language and to ensure that it
would meet those state requirements with

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a sightspecific lo local overlay
district. you could call it something

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like 72 Stow Road or Stow Road overlay
district um town center housing

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district. Um we would be shaping those
own requirements um as we see fit. So it

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can be as broad or as tight as we deem
necessary um giving us kind of the

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maximum control over this um over this
new zone we'll call it. This would be a

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new zone. really only one of these
options is is to change it, but we'll

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get to that. Um, so we'll talk about the
trade-offs. Obviously, they're kind of

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simply put here. Requires a planning
board hearing and a town meeting

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approval. Um,
>> yeah, this this needs to be we there are

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laws in place to make sure that we're
not just kind of making these crazy

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districts um that we would need to
follow. So again, there would be some

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support from EOHLC, but we would have to
go out and seek that. Um, and we would

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be carrying most of this burden really
between Alec and I um looking for a lot

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of help from the housing board and the
planning board along the way to make

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sure this captures really what we're
trying to go for. And a lot of the other

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options, some of the state um routes, uh
they offer a lot of support and even

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financial incentive to kind of choose
their um overlay growth district

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options. But um yeah, happy to answer
any questions before we move on to the

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next one.
>> Yeah. Ian, would

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this is an MBTA
district be part of the possibilities

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here? Yes. Yep. That's actually so I
wouldn't really call that an option one.

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Option one is also explored in several
of these other options. I have MBTA

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communities district as another option
that we can explore as well as two

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additional like chapter 40R chapter 40Z.
So yes, you're right. Um, but the idea

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of this and kind of trying to separate
it into a different category than MBTA

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communities, smart growth, and starter
homes, um, would be kind of our own

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overlay district, um, with the
definitions and requirements that we

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would see fit.

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» What about party wise zoning? Um, is
that one of the the possibilities here?

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I mean, that's kind of an
>> It is. Do you want me to I can I'd be

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happy to hop around to them. It is
option three. Option two is MBTA

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overlay.
>> Go straight through.

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» All right. I don't want to mess with
your presentation.

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» Hold your horses. All right. Um so the
next one is um option two is the

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» NBTA communities overlay district. And
um

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[clears throat]
>> yeah,

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» could you go back to the first option,
please?

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» Absolutely.
>> Yeah. I I'm I'm trying not

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[clears throat] just in this case but I
guess the whole thing to get some sort

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of baseline from which I can move
forward step by step

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on the overlay that you have there
something property does that have

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certain aspects to it is that just
ownership or is that town control or is

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the town control come in on the zoning
part of it and then the overlay comes in

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on some flexibility as to the zoning
characteristics.

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» So, I'd say the town the town ownership
would actually come in at the property

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level because that changes just as
property changes. Um the zoning itself

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is then enacted by the town and if um it
wouldn't impact necessarily our base

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00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:14,639
zone just as the MBTA communities um is
kind of a layer on top of that base zone

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up on the um whatever hill uh those hill
apartments are are made for. So to

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answer your question, I think I think
that answers some of it is the the

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ownership is on the property itself. The
zoning is then enacted by the town and

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the overlay zone is essentially another
blanket of zoning that can further

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00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:44,880
restrict or open up um kind of uses and
allowances um within a zoning district

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00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:49,920
which is is also shown really we
understand that a lot more because we

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00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:54,639
saw it happen with the MBTA overlay
district. Does that make sense?

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00:16:51,920 --> 00:17:00,480
» Why don't you keep going? Okay, happy
to. Um, so this is uh the MBTA overlay

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00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:07,280
district. There's less to talk about
here because we know this and we've done

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00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:14,319
it. And I will add that um we the the
planning board is bringing a very minor

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00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:19,120
amendment to the current existing MBTA
communities overlay district that you

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00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:25,360
see on this slide um to their fall town
meeting to make to get that final

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00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:32,240
compliance. Um there was a slight kind
of error in um the materials in the

194
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:35,840
calculations that the state um made. So,
we're working to edit and adjust those,

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00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:44,320
but they're very, very minor
adjustments. Um, anyway, focusing on STO

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00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:50,400
Road. Um, with this second option of
continuing to expand the box borrows

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MBTA community overlay district, we
would be able to essentially either make

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00:17:53,120 --> 00:18:03,039
a new MBTA communities overlay district.
So very similar to how um we have a

199
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:08,640
business and a business one district, we
could explore the option of making a

200
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:14,960
second MBTA communities overlay district
that is different than this first one we

201
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:21,440
have up on Hill Road or we could follow
um we could follow the current standards

202
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:26,960
to a T which would mean like 30 foot
setback or I believe it's two stories

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00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:31,600
maximum of 30 ft height. on the
building, 1.5 parking space per unit,

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00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:37,760
10% affordability, were all of these
options that we um essentially codified

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into our bylaw at that zoning district
on the north side of town. And it would

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00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:46,799
be if we do decide to explore this
option, one of the first things we would

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need to do is checking whether or not
the current restrictions and standards

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on that overlay district would be
valuable to bring to the Stow Road site

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or if we would need to open up a new
kind of MBTA communities um district and

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the center of town. Obviously, we know
it was it was uh an option from the

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start to have this. Um but if we
>> yeah, it's we we have kind of two

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options with this option, but it's
something that would come with more

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support from the EOHLC. Of course, it
won't affect our standing compliance um

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as we continue to kind of expand this
overlay district um in one way or

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another. And um let me see anything big
I'm missing. Not really. Yeah, that's

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important to know. Um currently we have
it at about 13 units per acre as it

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stands. We're trying to adjust that very
very minorly. But it's it you know if we

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were to explore this and want to move
forward with this then we would need to

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um really study as to whether or not the
current um

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the current standards of the Hill Road
MBTA communities overlay district would

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be worth bringing to Stow Road or if we
would need to um edit and uh kind of

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change around the language so that we
can kind of see what we want built at

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Stro Road and um see what kind of fits
the site.

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» That's all I have for that. Happy to
answer questions.

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» So my understanding uh if I understand
this correctly, the option one doing a

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separate local overlay is kind of like a
build your own zoning overlay.

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00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,559
» Correct.
>> Okay. So we can kind of customize it.

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That's the like customize overlay
option. Okay. There's there's obviously

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some like standards and um you know we
can't just make a Disneyland overlay

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district or something like it has to
come with there has to be reason to it

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and um I forget what the exact language
is but it's something like economically

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00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:14,559
feasible and developmentally
um viable but um yeah it would I'm

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00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:20,159
almost positive that you know what we
are looking to do with Stow Road. Um we

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can have a lot of flexibility at least
with that first option, but the

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trade-off is obviously um you know doing
an MBTA communities district or I

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believe the next two that we're going
through um come with EOHLC support um

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and definitely with the first one we
will get less and we will have to seek

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that out. Um [clears throat] but yeah,
so if there's no further questions, I

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will continue with chapter 40, which was
one of the options that uh came up. It's

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uh it's very new um and I believe that
it was originally introduced in the 2022

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00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:04,000
economic development package that was
passed um I believe by the Healey

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00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:08,240
administration. Um,
and it's a starter home district,

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00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:13,520
smaller price limited home ownership.
Um, and

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00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:19,120
I dug into this quite a bit last week
and today. I I'm not certain that it's

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00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:25,440
up and running yet. I'd be interested,
Joe, if if you uh can contradict me on

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00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:30,559
that. But, uh, from what I read, they
are still getting paperwork and permits

247
00:22:27,919 --> 00:22:37,520
and applications finished because a lot
of those deadlines were saying like June

248
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:42,640
2025 and July 2026, this this stuff will
become available. So, it's a very very

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00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:46,960
new program, but it might be it might be
a really great fit. But, um, I'm not

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00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:51,360
seeing your hand up, Joe. So, I'll take
that as a a knower and I don't know, but

251
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,080
um [snorts]
>> yeah. So,

252
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,559
» excuse me.
>> Jim over here had a question.

253
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» Oh, yeah.
>> What does EOHLC help me? Is that money?

254
00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:06,559
Is that assistance permitting? What What
does that mean to the town?

255
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:11,280
» Yeah, that's a great question. So, um
the MBTA communities, uh like overlay

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00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:17,360
district, the one we were just looking
at, came with a lot of support from the

257
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:24,159
EOHLC. um we got and unlocked grants
that essentially gave uh I don't know

258
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:28,960
the exact amount of hours but like x
amount of hours of work and it was

259
00:23:25,679 --> 00:23:34,159
definitely in the in the over 100red
possibly in the several hundreds hours

260
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:40,400
of work that folks from our regional
planning commission was helping us make

261
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:45,280
these calculations and do the outreach
and um ensure that we were eventually

262
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:50,080
going to be compliant. So, they were
actually doing a lot of the heavy

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00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:54,240
lifting along with I can't really claim
any claim I had any part in MBTA

264
00:23:52,640 --> 00:24:01,039
community since I only came on a year
ago, but um with Alec, the director of

265
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:06,480
land use and planning, he had um Aaron
Cruz, he's a housing planner from the

266
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:12,640
the state regional planning commission,
and they unlocked those funds through uh

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00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:18,559
the EOHLC. They essentially gave them
funds. They said you get up to this many

268
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:25,120
hours of support, direct support of this
gentleman, Aaron Cruz from MAPC working

269
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:30,480
directly on whatever we needed to ensure
that um this became this came into

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00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:34,960
fruition. Um
as well as like if we were to do this

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00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:40,799
again, we would have that option to
continue to get support um be it through

272
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:45,520
grants. But um EOHLC
has administrators of the MBTA

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00:24:43,679 --> 00:24:51,520
Communities Act. They have an
administrator just on this chapter 40Y

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00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:57,279
as well as just on this chapter 40R that
we'll get to next. So, it's essentially

275
00:24:53,840 --> 00:25:02,480
just a person I can pick up the phone
and call or email anytime and and

276
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:07,919
they're expert at this and I can ask any
any this that or the other question to

277
00:25:05,039 --> 00:25:13,520
have it answered on either starter homes
on MBTA communities district or on the

278
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:18,000
smart growth for 40R district. On top of
that, there are requirements that the

279
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:23,520
EOHLC
um needs Boxboro to hit to get approval

280
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:28,480
on these districts. And with that,
that's why they'll have some incentive

281
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:33,279
to continue to work with us and and kind
of foster a relationship to make sure

282
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:38,240
either this option, this option, or this
option go through, but less so on this

283
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:44,240
kind of custom option. We called it the
custom local option. But um good, that's

284
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:51,039
a great question. EOHLC support comes in
many forms and um and it it especially

285
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:58,720
comes through on these three middle
options that are directly supported and

286
00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:01,840
um and kind of pushed by EOHLC.
>> Thank you.

287
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:06,159
» Um so,
>> uh I have another question for the 40y.

288
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:10,880
Were you able to find out more
information about the um

289
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:14,320
» sewage and water? But yeah, the sewage
and water requirements.

290
00:26:12,159 --> 00:26:20,159
» Yes, I did find language that said there
was nothing that restricted it.

291
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:23,360
» Okay. So, it can be a private well and
that's fine.

292
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:28,880
» Yes, that's that that is what I found in
the general language of the law that was

293
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:33,279
passed. Um
I I will send that to you, but

294
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:39,120
essentially right after I I was looking
that up. It sounds confusing at first

295
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:46,400
and I read it a couple times over and it
said um that it's not restricted by uh

296
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:50,720
those those infrastructure needs.
>> Yeah. Like I feel like this and like the

297
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,240
more I've heard about it, the more I'm
just like this really feels like a good

298
00:26:52,159 --> 00:26:57,520
fit because that seems to be what and
we'll get to that information later, but

299
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:02,960
that seems to be what people in Boxboro
are asking more for is starter homes and

300
00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:08,240
this is a great way to make that happen.
>> Yeah. I absolutely agree and it the the

301
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:13,279
one of the one of the trade-offs maybe
one of the cons is though we haven't

302
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:22,080
seen this come to fruition because it's
so new and um and we'd kind of be kind

303
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:28,080
of treading our our own new steps. But
it's it certainly seems like a really

304
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:33,840
great program and from what I could find
a lot of communities have been starting

305
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:38,559
to do it. There's just no like I wanted
to show a picture of where a 40y

306
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:43,520
district was and what it looked like
like I did on this next one. This is a

307
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:49,440
40R home, but I I simply couldn't
because none of them have fully become

308
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:53,360
built yet. And um it seems like within
the next year or two, this is going to

309
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:57,919
be a more
accessible option and the in the state

310
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:03,760
should kind of finally flush out the the
final details of it. But as I said, this

311
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:08,399
is very new. Um, and another, you know,
as you can, I don't need to read this

312
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:15,840
here, but it's ownership focused. Um,
there are some bedroom requirements. Um,

313
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:21,760
and they are also a cap at the the house
got the house size. Um, but 1,800 fair

314
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:27,520
1,800
square ft is probably not kind of uh

315
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:32,080
going to restrict us too much if we're
talking about starter homes, especially

316
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:37,279
the amount that we might be wanting to
see on this 11 acre parcel.

317
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:42,960
» But the fact that it's new is actually
could be thought of as an advantage. It

318
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:46,720
gives us a chance to mold it our way.
>> Absolutely.

319
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:51,600
that is there a density requirement of
any kind associated with this?

320
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:55,919
» Yes. So you're per can do buy right four
homes per acre which fits really well I

321
00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:00,240
think with the property and the ideas
that we had for it already because we

322
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:04,000
were thinking already with what's been
you know with the work that's been done

323
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,559
on the property that you we're probably
capped at about 10 or 12 units

324
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,799
» right
>> so that would be great then you can get

325
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:16,080
I think
>> I think I think there is there is a

326
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:20,240
couple of drawbacks and one of them is
that and you think you're prohibited

327
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:25,200
from putting all your affordables in one
district with 40 wide

328
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:30,080
» and we would have to put all affordables
on still road.

329
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:33,120
» So I think there are some hookers.
Is that true? I haven't

330
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:37,120
» Well, I I
>> I'm sorry I missed that.

331
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:41,279
» I read the after your email, I took the
time to read the 13 pages of the

332
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:45,520
document and I think there are some
problems with it.

333
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:49,600
» I'm not you're not the first by whom the
new is tried, right? But anyway, I don't

334
00:29:47,679 --> 00:29:53,520
mean to hold you up. I just I personally
have reservations about 40.

335
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:58,320
» I remember seeing something in the
regulations about the affordable units

336
00:29:56,399 --> 00:30:04,159
have to be integrated with all the other
units, but nothing about them being

337
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:07,840
happen to be aligned along Stow Road.
>> I don't I don't know if I

338
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:11,360
» I don't remember that.
>> Yeah, Channing, sorry. I just I want to

339
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:15,679
write it down so I can I can look it up
and hopefully respond tomorrow. What was

340
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:20,320
your concern is is what with this
exactly? They're all

341
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:23,039
» Yeah. I don't know if I can find it
right off the bat. I may have to send it

342
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,960
to you, Ian, but
>> No. Yeah, please do. I'd be Yeah, I'd be

343
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,399
happy to look into it. This is the one
that kind of This is the one that's

344
00:30:28,399 --> 00:30:36,320
newest to me. I didn't learn about it in
school. I had to do my research over the

345
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:41,399
past week or so and and learn as much as
possible. And there's still plenty that

346
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,399
I don't know.

347
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,840
» Yeah. Joe, did you have a question on
this? I know. I saw your hand up. It

348
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:51,840
went down.
>> I'm good, Ian. Thanks.

349
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,120
» All right. All right. Let's keep going
through this. So, 40R

350
00:30:56,159 --> 00:31:06,159
» 40R is a pretty wellestablished um
reasonzoning overlay option. It's the

351
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:12,320
smart growth district. Um the state has
had this in place for oh, I want to say

352
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:16,320
well over 20 years now. It's been uh you
know, very successful in most areas. I'm

353
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:22,480
sure there's probably been some uh
pretty difficult areas to make it work

354
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:27,919
within. Um but it is exactly what you
would think of a multif family zoning in

355
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:33,919
a smart growth area. Um usually it does
prioritize uh ease of ease of access to

356
00:31:31,679 --> 00:31:38,480
like transportation. With that we might
be able to swing the um you know the

357
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:42,480
mart bus over there. I'm sure if we're
if we're looking to make this a smart

358
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:47,039
growth district, then um it certainly
can stop over there just as it does some

359
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:51,679
of our other housing housing um
complexes in town. But that's not

360
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:59,120
obviously not the only thing. Um there's
a lot here with um with 40R and um just

361
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:03,440
as with 40R and I should probably go
back because it's very important to add

362
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:11,840
with 40 Y there are financial
incentives. I believe it's $3,000

363
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:17,200
per unit. That comes back to us. Um, and
I obviously need to learn more on that.

364
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:21,760
It's not a crazy amount of money, but
it's something it's at least something

365
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:27,760
to look at. And I believe it's the exact
same amount for a 40R district. Um

366
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:34,159
there's also the 40s which is a program
where we can kind of do this math to

367
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:40,080
calculate how how much it burdens our
school with new students and then we can

368
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:47,279
get further tax um tax incentives or
money back to our school system.

369
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:54,720
Um but yeah, this is uh in going through
our 40R districts uh in the state on the

370
00:32:50,640 --> 00:33:00,320
EOHLC's website, a lot of them are much
higher density than what we would be

371
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:04,240
looking at for Stow Road. Um which is
kind of why I've put it down here. I'm

372
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:11,519
not throwing it off the table. It's you
guys's decision. Um there is a lot of

373
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:20,159
red tape that comes with a 40R district
um that we would have to figure out with

374
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:25,840
the EOHLC to see if this is even a
viable option for us. For example, um

375
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:30,480
they always put, you know, must be close
to public transit. After more review,

376
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:35,679
you can find out that okay, maybe we
don't need to be super close to public

377
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:42,240
transit, but um with that, you know,
we'll need to do XYZ and then ABC twice

378
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:50,880
over or something. There's a lot that
comes with this. Um and yeah, as you can

379
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:54,799
see, plenty of state review. Um and
let me think of what else. Yeah, so like

380
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:59,679
I said, most of them are much larger
scale. Think of like driving through

381
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:06,799
Cambridge and you see a lot of five over
ones. Um those are often associated with

382
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:12,800
uh smart growth districts, very dense.
Um and so oftent times a lot of the

383
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:17,919
acreage was way above 11 acres like what
we'll be working with. But it certainly

384
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:23,040
does not rule this out. And certainly
also not saying that we're going to have

385
00:34:19,359 --> 00:34:28,000
a 5 over1 um here in here in Boxboro.
It's it's obviously what we do with it.

386
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:35,839
It's how we take this um and mold the
density requirements to meet the um 40R

387
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:39,200
requirements within this district. Um I
see hands up so I'm happy to answer

388
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:44,320
them.
>> What are the what are the difficulties

389
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:49,520
associated with the first item under
trade?

390
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:56,159
» Yes, and that's a great question. And I
think it's one of those I think it's

391
00:34:52,159 --> 00:35:02,400
exactly that it's a tradeoff where um
this one the 40 wy they were not

392
00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:08,079
concerned about the waste water uh and
the sewage being private. This one the

393
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:13,359
smart growth um it's something that
they're going to look into and they're

394
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:18,240
probably going to not be very attracted
by it. I know that doesn't directly

395
00:35:15,359 --> 00:35:22,880
answer your question, but um there are
stricter requirements just across the

396
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:30,079
board. Um with this having been put in
place over 20 years ago, um most of

397
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:35,839
these developments are in kind of larger
cities um and even the smaller ones

398
00:35:33,359 --> 00:35:39,720
don't. So, let me um let me see if I
have it in my notes here.

399
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:02,400
Um
just off the quick search alone, it just

400
00:35:59,359 --> 00:36:08,960
says that we will need to certify
that like our existing

401
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:15,280
infrastructure be it installed or f it
will be installed in the future. can

402
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:20,640
adequately handle the load um required
for whatever we plan on building. So,

403
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:24,960
it's going to present us with a pretty
similar option that we're already

404
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:32,160
exploring where we're like constricted
by nitrogen loading or uh the well um

405
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:37,040
how much the well is able to produce um
the size of our septic. These the these

406
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:42,720
are things that we're going to have to
go through with whatever we develop. So

407
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:47,520
going through them and and exploring
those options through 40R doesn't seem

408
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:52,160
like it's going to be a terribly
challenging option. It seems like we'll

409
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:57,040
need to do that anyway. Um but you know,
this is something we would obviously

410
00:36:53,680 --> 00:37:01,920
explore before we get to the stage of
like putting together draft language to

411
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:08,880
make this 40R district. um we would have
those meetings with EOHLC to make sure

412
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:14,000
that um that the whatever we're
proposing will work for all of their

413
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:18,880
requirements um before anything is is
kind of put together. But it looks like

414
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:24,640
we're not restricted by private
wastewater um and water conditions um

415
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:29,599
the well in the in the septic. It just
seems like they're going to need to

416
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:33,920
check that um a lot more than they have
for MBTA communities and it seems like

417
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,240
more than they'll do for the starter
homes district.

418
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:49,280
» I feel like with our with the property
we're dealing with 20 units being able

419
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:54,920
to do 20 units per acre is just not
going to be feasible for it at all.

420
00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:02,960
Yeah, it is it is it is definitely a bit
high and higher certainly higher than

421
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,920
the starter homes and our current MBTA
communities uh overlay.

422
00:38:13,839 --> 00:38:22,320
There's a good chance that if you were
to put these on a spectrum

423
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:26,160
that this would be furthest to the the
denser side of the spectrum.

424
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:30,400
» Yeah, I think
>> but obviously a lot of these provide

425
00:38:27,839 --> 00:38:37,440
flexibility and we could put them really
anywhere on that spectrum. But judging

426
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:44,320
by, you know, not to look into a crystal
ball, but I wouldn't imagine that um

427
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:49,920
that a lot of folks would want to see
higher than 20 units per developable

428
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:53,200
acre.
>> I I rather think people wouldn't want to

429
00:38:51,839 --> 00:38:56,880
see anything like [clears throat] that
anywhere near it.

430
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:01,760
» Yeah.
Um Okay. So

431
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:07,280
» one just one question and and yeah just
>> historically you guys looked at the

432
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:10,720
wells and the septic and you had 12 to
was it 14 to 20 units or was what unit

433
00:39:09,839 --> 00:39:13,040
something like that
>> that's when you say units that's like

434
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,880
beds right
>> that's the whole thing

435
00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:20,480
» that's the whole thing
>> that's the whole units it's it's a mixed

436
00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:23,599
I think that number was for a mix of two
and threebedroom condos I forgot what

437
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,839
the
>> so that was that was units or bedrooms

438
00:39:25,839 --> 00:39:30,720
» units units
Okay.

439
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:34,560
» Right. Right. So something something
like that is going to be like you're

440
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:38,240
going to use 2 acres of the property and
all the rest of the property is septic.

441
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,079
Well, right.
>> Yeah. Well, something else something

442
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:46,720
else that might be an option is if we
have extra land besides the building is

443
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:51,119
having something like a community center
of some sort, which would be something

444
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,240
that you would want for a model if you
were going for like a co-ousing

445
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:59,839
community. And I feel like the starter
the the 40 Y overlay district works

446
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:04,320
really well for that sort of for for a
really small co-housing community like

447
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,960
that.
>> What's number five?

448
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:20,640
» Okay, friendly 40B. Great. Um so this is
uh an option I'd say we're probably all

449
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:27,920
a lot more familiar with. Um what 40B is
um it's similar to 40R, similar to 40 Y.

450
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:33,280
40B is specifically about um affordable
housing and every town in the state

451
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:41,440
needs to meet their requirement
threshold of having um 10 or more% of

452
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:47,440
their units uh of housing in town over
uh uh to be affordable. Sorry. And um

453
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:53,680
what a friendly 40b is and sorry if it's
below that 10% um a lot of uh affordable

454
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:59,280
housing developers will often come in
with plans um to build uh you know x

455
00:40:57,359 --> 00:41:03,760
amount of affordable houses even if it's
just one or whatever um to come in with

456
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:09,280
these plans to develop affordable
housing. And the town is very, if you

457
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:20,160
are below that 10%. The town is very
limited in their ability to um restrict

458
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:23,520
a 40B development um based on, you know,
whatever they're asking for. Usually,

459
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:29,760
it's a comprehensive permit through the
ZBA that really handles the majority of

460
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:34,960
it. A friendly 40B is often um brought
to towns with over this 10% threshold.

461
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:40,960
um like Boxboro, we are over that 10%
threshold and um it's called the local

462
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:45,760
initiative program and we would either
seek out developers developers um

463
00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:53,040
through an RFP process and then these
developers would come over and give us

464
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:58,079
their their um you know their plan to
develop a site and say we are going to

465
00:41:55,359 --> 00:42:05,200
go through the exact same process that
uh we would go through with 40B if um

466
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:11,280
you guys or below 10%. Um but it's a
collaborative effort where the usually

467
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:18,720
the select board signs some um something
into uh like policy first where they

468
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:25,280
allow this uh exploration and um process
to happen um in collaboration with one

469
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:29,680
another so that um it's not kind of a
one-handed and one-sided approach that

470
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:35,119
favors the developer but the town of
Bossboro will also be able to have a lot

471
00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:40,480
of say and how this site's built out and
developed. Um, rather than just a

472
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:44,960
developer kind of coming in and saying,
"This is what we would like to develop.

473
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:50,319
We see you're under the 10% threshold.
There's little you can do to stop or

474
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:56,319
curb um what we're suggesting." a
friendly 40B um invites affordable um

475
00:42:54,000 --> 00:43:03,280
developers to come build affordable
units in Boxboro collaboratively between

476
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:07,200
the ZBA um mostly the ZBA but obviously
in this case with it being kind of the

477
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:12,800
housing board's land it would be through
the housing board as well um and then uh

478
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:19,440
the zoning or the planning board as well
as needed um and I'm sure that we would

479
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:24,079
seek out their opinions and um advice as
as we would go through a process like

480
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:32,079
this. This is a very this is probably of
all of these the most common practice,

481
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:35,520
the most commonly done practice. Um I do
not have historical knowledge on how

482
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:39,920
many times this has been done in
Boxboro. I don't believe it will be the

483
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:49,040
first time, but this is done all across
the state um every, you know, every day

484
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:55,240
or several times a year. Um, it's it's
one of our safer or safest options, I

485
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:55,240
would say.

486
00:43:57,839 --> 00:44:02,640
» I have a question,
>> please.

487
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:09,200
» So, these are a bunch of different
overlay districts. Is it is it would it

488
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:17,280
make sense or is it a thing to combine
overlay districts or would that be more

489
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:23,119
of a kind of the build the zoning So,
yeah, I will point out that this 40B is

490
00:44:19,839 --> 00:44:30,400
is technically not an overlay district.
Um, it is it is a comprehensive permit

491
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:35,920
from the ZBA that essentially waves the
existing zoning there and permits um

492
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:42,960
this comprehensive
project to take place um you know,

493
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:48,160
wherever wherever it is. But um sorry I
got caught up on the overlay part. You

494
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:53,280
said would it be worthwhile to explore
combining some of these options?

495
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:59,680
» Mhm. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean I can't speak to that too

496
00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:07,359
much. I'm not certain that uh it's
really been done anywhere. Um, these the

497
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:13,760
MBTA overlay and the 40R overlay are
really the only ones that have been

498
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:20,240
practiced and completed. Um, with, of
course, as we know, the MBTA overlay is

499
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:24,640
just a few years old. Um, I I'm sure
that there are some overlap districts.

500
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:31,760
Actually, I I know for a fact that in
Middlear they um they put their MBTA

501
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:36,800
overlay district and their 40R district
um kind of on top of each other

502
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:44,480
overlapping. Um so there are instances.
However, it seems like uh I I'm just not

503
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:49,440
sure how it would work for Boxboro. Um
it I'm guessing it would probably be

504
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:56,079
more work to combine some of these. Um
and not going to kind of say that we

505
00:45:54,240 --> 00:46:03,359
can't do it. I just know that, you know,
between Alec and myself. Um it would be

506
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:10,160
probably a lot more to try to piece meal
some of these together than to kind of

507
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:15,760
just go for one and uh and focus on one
alone. But it's certainly, you know,

508
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:20,240
another option on the table that we can
further explore if we like this part of

509
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:24,560
that and this part of the other. But it
also might be worthwhile if we like this

510
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:30,000
p part of one and this part of the other
to explore this custom local zoning

511
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:36,160
overlay um that we would be able to kind
of shape up ourselves. But

512
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:40,480
» okay, I got one more. Yeah, Channing, I
heard you.

513
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:47,359
» Yeah. Uh I I I can wait or give this to
you now, but I have the section of uh

514
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:51,440
what is it? Uh 76069,
whatever it is.

515
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:54,640
» Yeah, it's MGL you're saying. It's in
the text.

516
00:46:51,839 --> 00:46:56,480
» Oh, 760 CMR. It's the 40 Y.
>> Gotcha.

517
00:46:55,839 --> 00:47:01,520
» Okay.
>> 760 CMR. I just want to be able to

518
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:05,880
reference this later.
>> CMR 69.03.

519
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,800
» Thanks.
That's the section that'll work.

520
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,520
» Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to
interrupt you.

521
00:47:13,839 --> 00:47:22,400
» No worries. I appreciate it. And then
this will be the last one. Um this is

522
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:28,480
this would let me let me be frank. This
would be uh these are all possible.

523
00:47:26,319 --> 00:47:32,800
They're not none of them are impossible.
Um this one would definitely kind of be

524
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:38,079
the
the odd ball out. I'd say this is a

525
00:47:35,359 --> 00:47:42,560
zoning change. So if we go back and look
at technically all of these are zoning

526
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:48,000
changes. They change our zoning bylaw
one way or another. But see this purple

527
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:54,880
layer in the middle. This last option is
the option to change our zoning, our

528
00:47:51,280 --> 00:48:00,079
base zoning. So we'll go back here. It's
done in every town. You know, every town

529
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,760
and city changes their zoning here and
there every couple years. There was uh

530
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:11,599
just this past Falltown meeting, there
was a proposal to um to bring some of uh

531
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:15,599
it was the business some of the
industrial commercial district into the

532
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:22,000
business or business one district. It
didn't move forward, but um it it was on

533
00:48:18,319 --> 00:48:27,440
the table to begin with. Um I I'll be
frank, I don't think that this is a very

534
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:34,400
viable option for us to explore. um we
don't have another district uh in our

535
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:40,800
base zoning that is what we want to see
at 72 Stow Road. So it could also mean

536
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:49,599
making a new zoning district of which is
not completely worth uh not worthwhile

537
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:56,079
I'll say but it's um it it's
it's just a bit we have other options

538
00:48:52,880 --> 00:49:01,280
that can bring us financial incentives.
um or be a bit easier to accomplish. It

539
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:07,920
seems like this would probably be one of
the harder ones to accomplish. Um and we

540
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:12,559
do have some
legal I mean with all of them we have to

541
00:49:10,079 --> 00:49:19,760
follow the law but you know with this
being one parcel um it can't be spot

542
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:26,000
zoning of which there could certainly be
plenty of appeals um to call this spot

543
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:32,960
zoning which could of course take us to
land court and um nobody none of us want

544
00:49:29,359 --> 00:49:38,240
that but uh yeah so we have the option
to bring in Stow Road into another

545
00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:42,319
district already in our zoning map or
create a new residential district, one

546
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:46,400
in the shape that we want to see. Um,
but I do believe that if we wanted to do

547
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:50,960
the latter of those two options to
create a new district, it would probably

548
00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:55,119
be easier to do so through an overlay
district. Um, but I'd be happy to talk

549
00:49:53,359 --> 00:49:59,119
about that more with you. I'd be happy
to talk about any of these options. I've

550
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:07,359
been talking for almost 30, 40 minutes
now. So, I am going to um let you guys

551
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:12,240
continue to ask questions and uh yeah,
that's pretty much it.

552
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,319
» Thank you very much, Ian. That you know,
you've done a lot.

553
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:19,760
» No problem. I I hope that was
comprehensive enough. I I do wish I had

554
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:25,040
a little more time to to delve into them
and um and learn as much as I could

555
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:29,520
about them, but uh that that's kind of
more or less highlevel knowledge about

556
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:34,000
those. Um, it'd be good to kind of see
which ones peique our interest and if

557
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:39,440
there are any that we can outright say
no to, we're not interested in. Um, that

558
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:43,839
would that would be uh that'd probably
be pretty worthwhile in the short term,

559
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:48,880
but I will not speak for the board
anymore. I'll let you guys discuss.

560
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:55,520
» Oh, thank you. It was very good.
>> Well, Channing has some uh charts that

561
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:58,720
we could have discussion later in the
meeting, I think.

562
00:50:56,319 --> 00:51:03,920
» Sure. Yeah. So we can talk talk about
which of those things we'd like. So uh

563
00:51:02,319 --> 00:51:09,920
unless there's further questions about
the presentation, we can move on to the

564
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:15,200
um rest of the meeting.
>> I had one question further question

565
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:19,119
about 40y. Um I think one of the things
that I don't necessarily like about it

566
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:23,920
is that it's
>> entirely focused on ownership. I know a

567
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:29,280
lot of people aren't asking for rentals,
but the reality is that people who are

568
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:34,720
low income and and require and and in
need of affordable housing often can't

569
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:41,119
meet the requirements for that and need
to rent for a while before they can

570
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:45,760
actually get that um like move toward,
you know, ownership. So, they have to

571
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:51,440
rent for a while anyway. Um, I don't
necessarily want to see super dense

572
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:56,640
rentals, but making a starter homes
district where there are a few options

573
00:51:54,160 --> 00:52:02,640
for rentals or rental is an option for
the affordable units. Um, I think would

574
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:07,280
be really great. I just don't know if
that's really included in the 40 because

575
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:14,559
the main focus is on
>> Yeah. Which again, people who need an

576
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:19,599
affordable unit, like if you if you want
to get into a 40b and you have a bunch

577
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:24,079
of student, you know, a student loan
debt, you might not be able to get

578
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,720
approved for a mortgage, which is one of
the like first things you have to do to

579
00:52:25,839 --> 00:52:31,839
be able to get in that.
>> I I can afford factor a little bit to

580
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:36,640
affordability, Ian, later on, and you're
going to add to it if you wish. You and

581
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:41,760
I talked about that earlier today.
>> Yeah. Yep.

582
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:47,599
No, but um yeah, Channing had a I mean
it does relate to that, but um I I

583
00:52:45,119 --> 00:52:53,280
certainly understand it's a frustration
and it's a drawback of going that route.

584
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:59,839
What could be a very attractive
um option to take the state

585
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:07,920
zoning route. Um that's definitely a
restriction that I see. Um

586
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,920
yeah, Joe, I see you have your hand up.

587
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:14,559
I may
>> Yeah, real quick. I just want to see um

588
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:19,359
I don't know if you have time to do
this, Ian, or if you're able to do this,

589
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:25,760
but it'd be cool to see these in kind of
a chart, maybe like on a landscape p so

590
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,960
we can see density for each option,
>> what's involved in each. I don't know if

591
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,599
you could do that quick. Um I don't even
know if I can even ask you to do that.

592
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:35,200
It's just something that would be
helpful for us to process, I think.

593
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:39,520
» Yeah. Yeah, like I just wanted to
>> I got of like densest to least dense

594
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:44,079
versus like
>> Yeah, just like a homeownership versus

595
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:49,680
most renter. Yeah, I I like that. I
should I I'll add that in advance of our

596
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:53,119
next meeting and I'll send it around.
>> Yeah. And then one thing I just wanted

597
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:58,640
to clarify. I heard the question earlier
like what is EOHLC? Um I want to just

598
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:03,760
people make sure it's um it's not the
state housing finance agency but it's

599
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:08,160
it's the state housing administrator. So
it used to be department of housing and

600
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:14,800
community development. It runs a number
of programs home CDBG. Um it runs the

601
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:20,160
local 40B housing what now they just
changed the name to executive office of

602
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:27,880
housing and livable communities. uh
which just is another difficult acronym

603
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:27,880
» in our line of work.

604
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:39,520
» Okay.
>> Thanks again.

605
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:43,680
» No problem.
>> We can move on with the rest of the

606
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:49,960
meeting. So Wendy, could you put Yes,
sir. and go down to after the

607
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,960
presentation.

608
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,280
Keep going.

609
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:57,960
Keep going.

610
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:07,280
Oh, that's it.
I don't know. We need we need to go

611
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:12,400
through this in detail, but there is
another issue that we need to resolve.

612
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:20,000
probably it's not a problem but in fact
there are constraints associated with

613
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:27,280
the land and with the account really
that the money that we would use is it

614
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:32,160
the affordable housing trust
and the restrictions are that it'd be

615
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:37,599
affordable to low and moderate income
housing

616
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:43,680
no numbers just that
uh it's non-specific [clears throat]

617
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:51,280
Well, early on, you know, a long time
ago, we had that discussion in the

618
00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:59,680
SRCDC. What does this actually mean?
What what does it allow us to do? So, we

619
00:55:55,359 --> 00:56:06,960
uh asked K&P for guidance and their
letter is included in a packet that I

620
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:13,280
sent you. Their answer was that it's
okay. All the units don't have to be

621
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:20,480
affordable, which you you might suppose
it can be a friendly 40b,

622
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:27,520
which is what I we ended up proposing.
one thing and but but I think one thing

623
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:34,559
that we need to worry about and perhaps
seek another opinion about is exactly

624
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:41,520
what does constitute
uh conforming to all these requirements.

625
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:49,040
Would a 40 wide development
uh with 10% home of the homes affordable

626
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:55,920
comply? that question as far as I know
has not been answered uh at least to us

627
00:56:52,319 --> 00:57:01,119
by K&P. So I just wanted to include that
as one of the things that we have to

628
00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:06,880
worry about is that you know we have to
make sure that what we do is legal and

629
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:11,920
legally complies with the constraints of
the affordable housing trust and and the

630
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,640
land itself.
And the stuff I sent out to you goes

631
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:20,400
into a lot more detail than that. So
that's all I wanted to say about that

632
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:26,649
unless there are questions. Yeah, I have
a question. Al the the letter from KMP

633
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:32,319
from Jean and so forth is
[clears throat] now 13 years old.

634
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:37,760
You think that's at some point worth
worth uh checking with them to see if

635
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:42,400
it's still viable?
>> It might be, but I think I think we're

636
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:48,319
going to have to check with them to see
if if we go the 40 40 Y route. I think

637
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,599
we'll have to check with them to see if
that's legal.

638
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:53,119
» Yeah,
>> cuz that's different than a friendly

639
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:59,680
40B.
>> Well, and 40.

640
00:57:57,599 --> 00:58:03,520
» Sorry. Since the friendly 40B isn't an
overlay district,

641
00:58:01,359 --> 00:58:10,079
» conceivably it could be a friendly 40B
with the 40 Y as an overlay district.

642
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:18,240
» Correct, Ian?
Potentially this would all be questions

643
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:22,960
for EOHLC, but I also would question is,
you know, does one not restrict the

644
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:29,920
other by uh what it requires? But yeah,
I'd be I'm not sure. Well, I don't think

645
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:35,200
40 Y is limited to 10% affordable units.
You can have more than 10%. So,

646
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,599
» we could have 25%
>> 100% if we could figure out how to do

647
00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:42,880
it.
>> But the more affordable units are, the

648
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:46,319
less attractive it becomes to
developers. I mean, these are tradeoffs

649
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:49,119
you would have to think about.
>> Just that's why that's why I'm like,

650
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,160
just talk to the people who want the
housing, [laughter]

651
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:56,385
» right?
But all I'm saying that this is an issue

652
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:59,880
that we're going to have to worry about.
[clears throat] Great.

653
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:07,599
» Is it any other questions?
>> Just real quick, Al. Um,

654
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:14,160
» yeah. to the point that the letter's a
little dated. If we do ask for an

655
00:59:09,839 --> 00:59:21,040
update, um, could we ask
the attorneys to analyze

656
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:27,280
their update against the options that
Ian presented and that would help us uh,

657
00:59:24,319 --> 00:59:31,520
not so much with the nuanced questions
um, in terms of could we do a hybrid

658
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:35,680
overlay and whatnot, but could we just
ask the attorneys, hey, we want to make

659
00:59:33,839 --> 00:59:42,559
sure we're going to meet
um the agreement and the and the

660
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:47,359
affordability um clause in the contract
uh the local contracts, you know, could

661
00:59:44,799 --> 00:59:51,280
you update your memo uh for our
purposes? And oh, by the way, could you

662
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:57,839
look at these options that we're
considering 40 Y 40R friendly 40B?

663
00:59:56,319 --> 01:00:03,119
» Exactly. That's what I think we're going
to have to do. Well, like I my opinion

664
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:08,640
is that before we do that, we need to
clarify our thinking as best we can

665
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:15,520
about exactly how we'd like to implement
these various options cuz the more my

666
01:00:12,079 --> 01:00:21,359
experience with all lawyers, probably K&
K&P in particular, is the more precisely

667
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:26,480
and you can ask the question, the better
guidance you'll get. So, I think I think

668
01:00:24,559 --> 01:00:32,079
it's that's exactly what we should do.
Joe, I agree.

669
01:00:30,319 --> 01:00:36,480
When the time comes, you know, when the
time comes, but I think we need to, if

670
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:42,480
we can, I think we need to clarify our
thinking on exactly what we would want

671
01:00:39,359 --> 01:00:45,599
under those various options uh before we
seek that guidance. But I think we

672
01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:48,920
should.
Yeah, I agree.

673
01:00:49,119 --> 01:00:57,200
Thank you.
Okay. What do we got here?

674
01:00:54,480 --> 01:01:00,960
Okay.
Uh, moving on to the housing production

675
01:00:59,359 --> 01:01:09,359
plan.
How are we doing there? Um, Ian,

676
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:14,160
» good. We um I'll I'll you know, really a
few updates, but it'll be good to kind

677
01:01:11,599 --> 01:01:20,640
of talk about what we what we want to do
for this next month. Um,

678
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:25,200
we haven't yet heard back from
the Oh goodness, I don't even know which

679
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:31,839
department it is. And it might be
several, but in March, we applied for a

680
01:01:28,319 --> 01:01:35,599
grant through the Eco1top. Um, which is
different than the kind of grant portal

681
01:01:33,839 --> 01:01:41,680
that we applied for this housing
production plan grant with, but we did

682
01:01:38,079 --> 01:01:46,000
that in June. So, for the the open space
plan, we applied to that in March. Like

683
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:53,920
I said, we still have yet to hear back.
And they they say that they're going to

684
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:59,119
um let us know in June, which um is very
on on par with how they normally roll

685
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:04,960
out these these grants and their
announcements. So, we do look forward to

686
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:10,799
hearing back from them on the open space
one very soon. But this would probably

687
01:02:07,839 --> 01:02:15,839
push the announcement of whether or not
we received this state grant for the

688
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:20,480
housing production plan. Um I believe
the original month that they said was

689
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:25,920
September following the June
application. So I wouldn't expect it

690
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:30,400
until at least November is probably more
realistic by how they're moving, but who

691
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:37,200
knows? So that's the update on kind of
where the grand state the the the grant

692
01:02:33,359 --> 01:02:41,760
is. Um, regardless, I think the plan has
been and has always been to continue

693
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:48,079
moving forward with this, anticipating
that we receive that and um and only

694
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:53,760
readjusting once we receive um the
hopefully good news um on that later

695
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:58,319
this year. Uh we do have a housing
production forum planned for our next

696
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:05,359
August meeting. I would like to spend a
little time just openly talking about

697
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:09,599
that. Al, I'd hope uh you and maybe if
any of the additional board members

698
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:14,319
would like to put some time and energy
towards that in the next month, um then

699
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:22,720
I think that's definitely worthwhile. Uh
I do want to kind of emphasize that the

700
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:28,319
way I see this next month's meeting
going is about housing production. And I

701
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:34,799
think Stow Road should have a part in
that. But I want to make sure that we um

702
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:40,400
that we don't focus entirely on Strow
Road. Um or if we would like we can have

703
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:46,559
an additional meeting sometime in
September or August um where we do focus

704
01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:52,720
on Strow Road. Um but for right now, I
believe the current plan we have was to

705
01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:58,160
um make up an agenda on some topics and
items that we wanted to discuss. um a

706
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:04,079
lot of which surrounding the visioning
exercise that we did at um Feifers Day

707
01:04:01,359 --> 01:04:11,039
and uh at one of the town hall town
meeting events. Um talk broadly about

708
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:15,520
those. um try to invite some potentially
invite some committee representatives

709
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:21,760
from the EDC, the planning board, the
select board, the zoning board of appe

710
01:04:18,079 --> 01:04:27,280
appeals um and such as well as of course
the open public and try to receive as

711
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:34,480
much feedback as possible um from folks.
But that's a pretty high level

712
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:40,200
look at it. I'd be happy to answer any
questions or openly discuss this. Um,

713
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:48,240
» well, right now it sounds like what we
need to do is convene a small group to

714
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:53,280
uh put together what we need to do at
the the hearing, the meeting.

715
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:56,559
» Yeah.
>> Anybody interested?

716
01:04:55,119 --> 01:05:00,319
» When's the meeting?
>> Or

717
01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:04,480
» August 25th, I believe. Is that our next
scheduled meeting normally?

718
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:08,920
» Oh, right, right, right. That's what
we're doing. I remember now.

719
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,640
» Yeah.

720
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:24,000
» Any other any other Oh, Channon. Oh my
goodness. Shannon raised his hand. Hey,

721
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:28,240
I'm in all the way on this.
>> Okay,

722
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:33,039
» thank you. I I don't hear anyone else,
so I'll assume it's you two folks for

723
01:05:30,079 --> 01:05:36,880
now. But um with that, I don't I'm not
sure we'll need to post anything or

724
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:40,640
create a working group or anything. We
can we should be able to meet

725
01:05:38,319 --> 01:05:46,720
informally. Um and I'll double check the
the requirements for that, but we should

726
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:53,680
be good on that. Um great. Okay. So, we
can begin putting some stuff together um

727
01:05:49,839 --> 01:05:59,200
on that. And uh
yeah uh we'll also invite invite um

728
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:05,760
individual members of the board if they
have any opinions or ideas of things

729
01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:10,240
that we should be doing um then they can
reach out to me not the board as I would

730
01:06:08,319 --> 01:06:15,200
be discussing in violating open meeting
law. But um if you do have any ideas

731
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:21,359
that you'd like us to bring and set up
for uh next month's housing forum then

732
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:25,359
please let me know. um and I will bring
them to Al and Channing as we work on

733
01:06:23,839 --> 01:06:32,240
this. But I think it should be a good
opportunity um to focus on,

734
01:06:29,119 --> 01:06:36,960
you know, the needs broader of the uh
the the town. Hopefully get some some

735
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:42,480
input.
I think what you just said is

736
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:46,720
uh you would you would like and it's
really good idea for any housing board

737
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:53,119
member even if you're not on this plan
group to send u suggestions of what

738
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:57,280
should be included and how to go about
it

739
01:06:54,000 --> 01:07:01,119
» to you and Channing and we can talk
about it when we get together and

740
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,720
that right
>> it could also be a great time to show

741
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:11,359
off our
dreamhouse quilt that fit in and Britney

742
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:18,280
did so good. Um did a great job at
putting together or getting getting

743
01:07:14,079 --> 01:07:18,280
folks to buy into that.

744
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:25,599
» Okay.
>> Okay.

745
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:30,319
» So, we'll be informed
Al, you

746
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:35,280
and myself will be informed as to what
our next step is.

747
01:07:33,119 --> 01:07:41,839
» Yeah. Let's let's uh let me just look at
my calendar. Probably next week would

748
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:51,359
probably Yep. very very open next week.
So um yeah, maybe sometime next week um

749
01:07:47,359 --> 01:07:59,280
to meet and discuss some of the options
um to uh to present and and talk about

750
01:07:55,760 --> 01:08:03,039
and discuss there.
But also within that time, within that

751
01:08:01,599 --> 01:08:08,640
time, I'll try to put together some
promotional material as well that we can

752
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:13,680
get to Wendy to send out, that we can
get to the board to send out, and that

753
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:20,480
I'll get to um town administrator, town
clerk, and make sure that it's um as as

754
01:08:17,839 --> 01:08:24,960
publicly available as possible, get as
many voices as possible. It will be

755
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:30,960
hybrid. I will be in person this time
for that. Um,

756
01:08:27,759 --> 01:08:35,839
but yeah, we should I' I'd hope that we
have several folks attend. And while

757
01:08:33,759 --> 01:08:40,640
we're still on it, um, and I mentioned
it briefly, but I didn't get any

758
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:46,799
confirmation earlier, maybe last month
or the month before, we talked about,

759
01:08:44,239 --> 01:08:51,520
um,
we talked about inviting committees. Did

760
01:08:49,679 --> 01:08:55,600
we want
is it good if I start reaching out to

761
01:08:54,159 --> 01:08:59,440
said committees and inviting a
representative for them to to join and

762
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:05,359
be a part of this discussion or is that
something that we'd like to push further

763
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:14,080
out focus on just residents for this
next one and um have a future meeting to

764
01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:17,839
discuss um with with board and community
representatives.

765
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:24,480
I think residence is what we want to
focus on at this stage.

766
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:28,159
» I think that's right too. I mean I mean
one thing that might happen if we get a

767
01:09:26,480 --> 01:09:34,080
whole bunch of committee people we have
all these committee people and maybe one

768
01:09:29,839 --> 01:09:39,603
or two residents I think they might
>> that's

769
01:09:36,239 --> 01:09:44,319
no that's a great point.
[clears throat]

770
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:52,080
» Yeah I think is up first.
Yeah. My fear is that we don't get

771
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:56,159
enough residents and then we're but we
don't have to

772
01:09:54,239 --> 01:10:00,800
we'll be hopeful and we'll do our
outreach.

773
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,520
» We should have goodies or refreshments
or something.

774
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:07,520
» Yeah. Offer some refreshments.
>> I'll look into that. Yeah, we can

775
01:10:04,719 --> 01:10:10,800
definitely get some refreshments.
>> We can do that.

776
01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:15,280
» All right.
Very good.

777
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:19,520
and the whole program. I'm not sure
there's anything going there. Uh

778
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:22,880
anything,
Wendy?

779
01:10:20,719 --> 01:10:31,280
» The only thing there hasn't been any new
applications, but I got the last um

780
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:37,679
just today. I got the last invoice of
number four application. So, we've given

781
01:10:34,239 --> 01:10:42,159
out, you know, almost the $8,000.
This was for um gutters to prevent ice

782
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,600
dams.
So,

783
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,159
» yeah.
>> Okay.

784
01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:52,880
» So, I have not received any new
applications since probably April.

785
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:58,080
» When did we originally send out the
information about the program?

786
01:10:54,960 --> 01:11:00,480
» I think it was the very end of December,
>> right?

787
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:03,679
» And I got, you know, I got two or three
right away, then another one, then then

788
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:08,000
that one.
>> Yeah. I think it would be a good thing

789
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:12,159
to do during the summertime to, you
know, do a blast and remind people of

790
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:16,640
the program. And that's
>> that's not my that's not my

791
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:20,560
» that's not my position. Yeah,
>> that's that's not something that I do.

792
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:26,080
That's a housing board thing.
>> Oh, okay. So we should do that again

793
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:29,600
then is put that notice out that you
know hey this is on a rotating basis if

794
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:35,040
you need anything because then if
anybody needs to do any kind of

795
01:11:32,159 --> 01:11:39,600
maintenance work in preparation for the
upcoming seasons

796
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:44,239
» maybe we should uh give oursel maybe we
should discuss that next

797
01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:49,360
um meeting
>> it probably depends on what there's a

798
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:52,719
budgetary question too I mean you know
how much money should we allocate things

799
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:57,360
like that.
>> So like let's put that on the agenda for

800
01:11:55,199 --> 01:12:03,679
the next meeting whenever.
>> So Al, you're saying a a budgetary

801
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:12,159
thing, but I mean all the 20 people are
or whatever are allocated the 2K. So

802
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:18,719
um I mean there's still there wasn't a
time limit to it, was there? I mean

803
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:23,600
» Yeah, you're right.
>> Yeah. there's money that's still

804
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:27,040
available. It might be worth it to
remind people of the program since it's

805
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,480
like more than six months later,
>> right?

806
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:32,640
» Um
>> I think I think

807
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:35,679
» springing and stuff, they might be newly
aware of things that they weren't aware

808
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:38,960
of, you know, in December when they
first got notified.

809
01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:42,239
» Well, let's put it on the agenda for
next

810
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:49,040
» next week.
All right. And the rental assistance

811
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:55,280
program. Yeah, there was something I
wanted to ask and now I can't remember.

812
01:12:51,679 --> 01:13:01,920
Um, but it's still we still have a
waiting list. Um, we're still,

813
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:07,360
you know, vetting people that are in the
program.

814
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:12,480
Uh, I think there's 15 people right now.
So, we keep on plugging away. And I

815
01:13:10,159 --> 01:13:19,520
can't believe I forgot. It's been very,
very, very, very busy this summer. And

816
01:13:15,679 --> 01:13:23,600
so I can't remember exactly what that
question was.

817
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:26,239
» Okay. Well,
>> if you think of it later.

818
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:29,280
» Yeah, I will.
>> Come back. We'll come back around to it.

819
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:33,600
» Okay.
>> Okay. Well, the next part of the

820
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:39,280
meeting, I think I will let Channing
have before. Channing, if you could go

821
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:46,560
down the the stack, there's a couple of
visuals Channing might want to use uh in

822
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:51,760
his talk.
>> Is it this?

823
01:13:48,480 --> 01:13:55,280
» Well, I I don't see anything a little
pardon.

824
01:13:53,679 --> 01:13:59,440
» What?
>> I just don't know what you want me to

825
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:04,719
show. Do you want me to show something?
>> Go back to the Go back to the deck.

826
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:08,239
Original deck. go back to El's El's
email

827
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:11,840
» the deck you were showing the the the
the

828
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:14,960
collection of slides that you were
showing.

829
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:19,280
» Okay. So, not the packet.
>> Go back to the packet.

830
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:22,159
» Oh, I was just in the packet. Hold on.
>> I believe it's the last pages on the

831
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:26,280
packet.
>> The last pages on the packet.

832
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:34,640
Oh, okay. I just have to share it again.
Is that what happened? I stopped

833
01:14:30,239 --> 01:14:38,040
sharing. All right, hold on.
>> I got it.

834
01:14:39,679 --> 01:14:47,040
» Okay,
>> do you want the other one too, Channing?

835
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:50,719
» I think it's probably more before the
one right after.

836
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:53,840
» I got it.
This one?

837
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:57,440
» Yeah, that's fine. Thank you.
>> Okay,

838
01:14:55,360 --> 01:15:01,679
yeah, Ian, do you want to make any
comments at all about that as we spoke

839
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:09,600
earlier? Yeah, I'll I'll give the
highlevel uh detail on it. So, we had

840
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:15,280
this we had this um
this poster at two town events. The

841
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:18,880
first one was a town meeting info
session. Um and I don't believe it was

842
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:24,320
for annual town meeting. I believe it
was for a special town meeting. So, that

843
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:29,280
would have been in March. Um, and with
that, I did not remove the suggestions

844
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:36,800
or the dots, but I brought them back to
Feifer's Day. And, uh,

845
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:44,800
in my short count, I believe we had
about 19 or so at the first event that

846
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:52,560
we did. And then at the end of Fifer's
Day, we had a total of 89 entries. Um,

847
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:59,600
so that would make about what is that 60
or 70 people um who came by at Fifer's

848
01:15:56,159 --> 01:16:05,600
Day to give their opinions on this. Um,
there are some sticky notes that were

849
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:11,679
put on there of priorities and options
for housing that were not originally put

850
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:17,679
on there. Um and what you one of the
struggles you know you get with this as

851
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:23,360
a statistician looking at that is well
okay this option in the sticky note was

852
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:27,040
not presented to everybody at the same
exact time. It wasn't there at the

853
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:32,719
beginning but rather somebody put that
in halfway through or towards the tail

854
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:36,719
end. And so, um, yeah, that's, uh,
that's pretty much the high level and

855
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:42,320
the technical of it, but, um, I was very
happy when Channing asked for that data.

856
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:48,000
Um, and, uh, was able to kind of make
this this thing we see next. Um but

857
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:53,360
essentially you you obviously see them
ranked here um from starter homes to

858
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:58,239
affordable housing to middle income all
being really really high priorities for

859
01:16:55,760 --> 01:17:02,719
the residents of Boxboro who responded
to this visioning poster. Um so yeah

860
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:08,960
that's all I'll say. I'll pass it back
to Channy.

861
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:16,760
One question. Is it at all legitimate to
combine the starter homes and middle

862
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:16,760
income housing homes categories?

863
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:24,960
» It's not in my opinion, I don't think
that's uh unheard of. I do think that I

864
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:29,600
think it could go either way. I think
you could staunchly defend that starter

865
01:17:27,679 --> 01:17:34,239
homes are separate than middle inome
housing um and should be treated as

866
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:38,080
such. But um I also definitely
understand that there are a lot of

867
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:41,600
similarities between starter homes and
middle-income housing. As we've seen the

868
01:17:40,239 --> 01:17:46,000
housing market kind of change,
especially over the past 10 years, those

869
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:53,760
two things kind of blend together where
now a lot of younger middle inome people

870
01:17:49,760 --> 01:18:00,320
per se um yep have a very hard time of
attaining um any regular house and then

871
01:17:57,199 --> 01:18:04,080
would hence need starter homes. So um it
could go either way. I

872
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:10,320
» that's my that's my look at it. But
>> I I forget that board, but was the

873
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:17,120
nature of it such that a a a cert a
given person could vote for both starter

874
01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:20,239
homes and middle and income housing.
>> Mhm.

875
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:26,080
» Um they were told to put they were told
to put one on. Um I'm not sure how it

876
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:31,360
went at Fifer's Day, but Finn was there.
So, Finn, I'm not sure if if it if you

877
01:18:29,679 --> 01:18:36,640
had people putting a couple on. We
weren't super strict about it. Um, we

878
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:43,920
weren't going to peel stickers off, but
>> I think uh um I wasn't paying too close

879
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:48,880
of attention. I think uh Britney might
have been more alert to that.

880
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:53,920
» She's not
the the question is what is your number

881
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:58,560
one housing priority? So, I would hope
that would

882
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:00,719
sway folks to just vote for one as well.
But

883
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:06,960
» I do I do remember the wheelchair
accessibility one was actually from a

884
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:12,320
family that had, you know, the child
with them that was, you know, in a

885
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:21,760
wheelchair at the event. Um, and they
said they were in uh a unit in um

886
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:27,360
uh Beaver Beaver Brook. Is that the one
that I'm thinking of? The one that's a

887
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:30,080
portable or something?
I I I [clears throat] can't remember

888
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:33,440
exactly.
>> Otman Hill or Swanson River?

889
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:37,679
» No, no, not Cotman Hill. No,
>> Brook Village. Brook Village or Bridge.

890
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:48,159
» Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.
I I tried to account for by by including

891
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:55,360
what would have been obvious multiple
selections uh on that list. In other

892
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:59,920
words, uh climate appropriate materials.
Well, let's say that would be across the

893
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:03,600
board. Okay? I mean, what else would it
be? You know, you're not going to

894
01:20:01,199 --> 01:20:07,520
separate those out. Work wheelchair
accessible. That's going to apply to

895
01:20:05,199 --> 01:20:11,679
everything and so forth. So I tried to
account for that through an adjustment

896
01:20:09,679 --> 01:20:17,920
and the list came out pretty much the
way it is anyway. Uh which I then

897
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:23,040
extracted onto this grid here which
maybe I can talk through now but there

898
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:28,120
are more questions go ahead but for
explanatory

899
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:28,120
note to that.

900
01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:36,880
Okay.
Okay.

901
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:41,000
Does everybody have a copy of it? you.
I've got one here if you need one.

902
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:49,679
» I I didn't send one to you.
>> Other words, I' I'd like to Okay, we'll

903
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:56,080
leave it there. Leave leave that then. I
Let me make a couple of preface uh um

904
01:20:53,440 --> 01:21:02,159
let me preface this when the preface is
probably going to be longer than the

905
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:08,400
comments. Okay guys, um
in an effort to deal [clears throat]

906
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:16,400
with the results of the survey
and also to remove some of the

907
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:22,000
kaleidoscopic elements of this
whole puzzle that we're faced with. I

908
01:21:19,199 --> 01:21:28,320
took the most frequent
uh frequently mentioned categories and

909
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:32,640
tried to apply some decision criteria to
them.

910
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:37,600
Um before I get to the decision
criteria,

911
01:21:34,239 --> 01:21:43,199
let me say as to the categories and
starting from the top

912
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:47,600
uh starter homes. Okay, that was the at
19 that was the largest and most

913
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:52,560
frequently mentioned category.
affordable,

914
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:58,880
then middle inome housing, then more
rental, but rental is is a move issue

915
01:21:56,159 --> 01:22:04,000
now because Actton Housing Authority has
told me they're not interested in

916
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:09,520
building anything now. And we are not
equipped to manage any rental properties

917
01:22:06,639 --> 01:22:15,120
on that or any other land. So, I'm
afraid of rentals unless somebody knows

918
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:22,719
more than I do out the window.
and housing for seniors uh is number

919
01:22:17,679 --> 01:22:28,480
eight and co-op and commun community uh
res residential property is number five.

920
01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:34,719
So um that's kind of at the tag end of
it. So uh that's how I rank them and

921
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:42,080
then I try to apply these decision
criteria but the I also put 40 Y in here

922
01:22:38,480 --> 01:22:46,400
but I I am not predisposed to 40 Y. So
you'll have to override my my decision

923
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:54,000
on that one.
>> Okay. But what I would like to talk to

924
01:22:48,480 --> 01:23:01,600
primarily at this point is starter homes
and that is where the lowincome people

925
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:05,920
are also the neediest people and that is
where Boxboro has its share of them even

926
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:11,360
though we have to put this up for
lottery.

927
01:23:07,679 --> 01:23:19,600
But I do I think have a thought to
introduce here and that is instead of

928
01:23:15,679 --> 01:23:25,679
giving up the land on Stow Road either
giving it up to Habitat for example or

929
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:30,639
selling it to a developer.
We don't do either. We create a land

930
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:37,600
lease
and we keep the land.

931
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:43,840
Now the advantages of that as I see it
are that the value of the land comes out

932
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:49,600
of the selling price of the residents.
So the only thing that's being purchased

933
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:55,440
is the structure. Now this is something
that's quite prevalent in Maryland. It's

934
01:23:51,679 --> 01:24:00,960
not a new thing. And the advantage to
the purchaser is they don't have to pay

935
01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:05,440
for the land and they don't have to pay
a tax on the land.

936
01:24:03,440 --> 01:24:10,320
Okay. [clears throat] And we don't pay a
tax on the land because the housing is

937
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:13,120
not a buy. So we're going to pay taxes.
>> Yeah.

938
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:16,320
» So the town just misses out on the
revenue of those builders.

939
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:18,960
» Well, the town isn't going to be
spending an awful lot of money on it

940
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:23,679
anyway. I don't
>> Well, but but years from now, they're

941
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:26,639
going to miss their
revenue pion.

942
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:32,800
So
>> Okay. So that's that would lower the

943
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:37,920
price uh by $160,000
an acre. Okay.

944
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:44,719
So if you put one house on that acre,
the price comes down by $160,000 bucks.

945
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:49,440
If you put two houses on that acre comes
down by $80,000 and so on and so forth

946
01:24:47,679 --> 01:24:55,520
depending on how many units put on the
acre, which is why zoning comes into the

947
01:24:52,239 --> 01:25:02,000
issue, I think. But the advantage is you
really lower the price of a starter home

948
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:08,000
down to where people who really don't
have a lot of money presumably can

949
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:13,840
afford it. Now, pricing price points,
price points for middle inome people,

950
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:18,639
all of that has to be worked through,
but I think the concept is sound. And

951
01:25:16,639 --> 01:25:23,679
I've taken the liberty of talking to
Stephanie Peterson at Metro West to see

952
01:25:21,679 --> 01:25:29,520
if she has any insight. She's
researching it. I spoke to Ian this

953
01:25:26,159 --> 01:25:33,520
afternoon. Ian's thinking about it, too.
I don't believe there's any prohibition

954
01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:37,920
in Massachusetts about doing something
like that. Although, if we chose to

955
01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:44,960
pursue it, we would have to have a legal
opinion on it. But I think it does lower

956
01:25:41,679 --> 01:25:50,639
the price of an affordable unit to a
really manageable level for somebody

957
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:57,199
somewhere on the AMI spectrum or
continuum household of two. Now I would

958
01:25:54,239 --> 01:26:04,239
be would not be overly mortgage burdened
uh at $170,000 house. Maybe you might

959
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:08,800
even be able to do better with reframe
housing, modular housing on there

960
01:26:06,159 --> 01:26:13,360
somehow or some other technique. I I
don't know. But uh that's where my

961
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:18,159
starting point is. And I think I'm just
sort of taking the liberty

962
01:26:16,159 --> 01:26:22,800
and taking the liberty of advocating for
it now or jumping the dot maybe. I don't

963
01:26:20,719 --> 01:26:28,080
know. But that's where I'm coming from.
>> Who would we lease it to?

964
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:32,719
» We're going to lease it to anybody.
It's it's they they just get the right

965
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:37,440
to to have the house on it.
>> Yeah. So the homeowners would own the

966
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:41,440
houses but the town would maintain
ownership of the land is my

967
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:46,239
understanding there.
>> Now depending on what the economics of

968
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:53,199
the whole thing turn out to be we could
say that yeah there will be a lease

969
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:59,120
amount of some a lease of some amount.
What that amount might be could be zero

970
01:26:56,159 --> 01:27:03,679
or it could be some very small amount
that would help pay for preservation

971
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:08,960
syncing fund. We know what those are
about. Or it could be something that

972
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:18,400
would help fund BAP. So my question
about the land lease is if we went that

973
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:23,199
route and we put you know a a septic and
you know a well on the property does

974
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:27,280
that then mean that the town of Boxboro
is responsible for maintaining those?

975
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:32,239
» That's a very good point. Maybe
>> yeah so there would have I feel like

976
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:36,000
there would have to be some amount paid
>> to the lease to make sure that that m

977
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:39,199
that we're able to continue funding the
maintenance. It probably would have to

978
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:44,639
be something. Yeah,
>> but I think the thrust of it is to get

979
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:49,840
the price of the house the housing down.
>> Yeah, I I think and I think I've also I

980
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:53,760
think I've also heard about this. I
think that was one of the one of the

981
01:27:51,199 --> 01:28:00,159
groups in the housing leadership academy
out in Western Mass was doing something

982
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:04,400
something similar as a as a you know
>> community housing trust. And we we have

983
01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:10,400
the affordable housing trust. I don't
know if that's somehow different than

984
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:13,520
that, but I think I think the land lease
is is kind of part of what they were

985
01:28:12,480 --> 01:28:16,159
talking about. I don't know much about
it though.

986
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:20,800
» This is Did I understand you say that
somebody's actually doing this?

987
01:28:18,159 --> 01:28:24,800
» I if I remember correctly, I think so. I
I'm getting a ton of information at this

988
01:28:22,480 --> 01:28:28,880
housing leadership academy and I'm only
absorbing a percentage of it. [laughter]

989
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:32,320
» That would be very useful. you want to
track down who if somebody's doing it to

990
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:40,159
see how
>> it's doable as a it's a community land

991
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:44,719
trust a CLT and um housing trusts are
able to do that just exactly how

992
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:49,520
Channing described
>> Yeah. Yeah. My my main question would be

993
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:55,360
would the town be responsible for the
the septic and the well maintenance and

994
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:58,719
if so you know what would that cost be
to the town and then

995
01:28:57,440 --> 01:29:04,000
» that could go into the price of the
house too actually the lease hold

996
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:07,120
some way to look at it
>> so that's a good that's a good point

997
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:10,880
question
>> yeah sure

998
01:29:07,679 --> 01:29:17,040
» I I kind of assume in this that the town
would kind of donate the land at cost

999
01:29:14,719 --> 01:29:21,520
or at no cost. So if that was the case
when they're building there is no and

1000
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:26,320
and the the homeowner is assuming the
mortgage he is paying the mortgage for

1001
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:28,239
the value of the property that gets
built.

1002
01:29:26,639 --> 01:29:33,040
» The structure is only the
>> only the structure,

1003
01:29:29,679 --> 01:29:37,600
» right? But then I guess again my my
problem is is I think you can go to town

1004
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:43,520
and say we're going to build 12 houses
on this set are great but we're not

1005
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:47,520
going to get any tax to support the
schools or anything out of that. I just

1006
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:50,639
think you're dead town me I don't see
how how that could ever pass the town

1007
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:55,679
need
>> to [clears throat] be honest

1008
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:59,280
» if it's all affordable units though. So
I it doesn't I guess the point I'm

1009
01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:03,760
making is yeah I mean it's affordable or
not the town's going to I mean those

1010
01:30:02,480 --> 01:30:09,280
people who move in those units are going
to have kids that are in schools. How

1011
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:13,679
are they not how is the town
how come they don't have to pay taxes to

1012
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:15,679
send their kids to school when when I
do.

1013
01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:19,600
» Why would they not have to pay they'd
have to pay taxes on property tax?

1014
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,840
» They pay taxes on the structure.
>> They would that's right. They would pay

1015
01:30:20,719 --> 01:30:24,560
the property.
>> So they're going to be paying some tax.

1016
01:30:23,199 --> 01:30:26,960
» Yeah. They're going to pay property tax.
Right. They're going to own the land.

1017
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:30,719
They're going to pay property. The
answer the answer to that one is those

1018
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:34,960
kids are marginal. They're going to pay
it anyway. They write out on the margin.

1019
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:38,320
You know, you got fixed costs there.
These are just variables are making

1020
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:41,920
difference. Don't worry.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Right.

1021
01:30:40,239 --> 01:30:45,840
» Okay. You you can apply that.
>> You can try it with that. Well, anyway,

1022
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:49,840
you're thinking outside the box here.
So, that's that's my story. I'm going to

1023
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:54,239
stick to it. The other part of it is
that at least you try to find we try to

1024
01:30:52,080 --> 01:31:00,320
find out what the what the decision
criteria are and see what approach is

1025
01:30:58,719 --> 01:31:05,679
going to work with them or won't work
with them and so forth. So this was an

1026
01:31:02,480 --> 01:31:10,560
attempt to try to at least get on paper
what what for these various choices that

1027
01:31:08,719 --> 01:31:16,639
were or pre preferences that were
selected you know what are the various

1028
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:21,520
elements that they have to satisfy in
order to fly and [clears throat] that's

1029
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:27,040
that's really what I was trying to do uh
whether I succeeded I guess up to the

1030
01:31:24,159 --> 01:31:30,800
board's deliberation but if these
criteria don't work I'm sure there are

1031
01:31:28,719 --> 01:31:37,760
others that would would be useful
instead stead. But my main selling point

1032
01:31:34,159 --> 01:31:45,120
here is to get a reasonable number of
lowcost affordable houses on Stow Road

1033
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:50,080
that Stow Road lot and a ground lease
would be one way to at least get a good

1034
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:52,880
step on it, I think. And it doesn't mean
we couldn't charge them something. I

1035
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:59,760
think
>> it just would be unus as an assessor of

1036
01:31:57,440 --> 01:32:04,159
one of the board of assessors
there. Yeah. So unless the town owns the

1037
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:07,600
land somehow, I mean, they're going to
just look at the land say this is the

1038
01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:10,880
value. The taxes are based on the value
of the property land. If they own the

1039
01:32:09,679 --> 01:32:14,159
land, they don't own the land, then
that's Yeah, that's true.

1040
01:32:12,239 --> 01:32:17,920
» Well, you know, they don't get any tax
on the land. That's again, I think

1041
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:24,800
that'll just be a child since the
accounts,

1042
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:31,040
you know, the accounting department.
>> I I I will say I do like this. I mean,

1043
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:37,520
to me, it's it seems like to me that not
being on the planning board is that

1044
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:41,840
planning board needs to kind of come up
with a vision for what they want that

1045
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:47,600
property to look like. And I mean, I
think what Jan's describing is that if

1046
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:54,320
it's a property that has eight or 10 or
12 individual homes

1047
01:32:51,199 --> 01:32:59,760
that some are starter homes, they're
they're all affordable. Some of them are

1048
01:32:57,679 --> 01:33:06,239
have access are built with accessibility
for seniors. I think that's a that's a

1049
01:33:02,480 --> 01:33:11,040
nice vision that seems that would work
work well for the town and I think you

1050
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:15,120
could you it would sell at the town.
>> Well, you know, there's a question too

1051
01:33:12,719 --> 01:33:21,600
of availability
not as well as affordability. I mean the

1052
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:29,120
plain fact is that starter homes are not
very available in box.

1053
01:33:24,719 --> 01:33:35,760
So even having a starter home that would
not be designed to be affordable, I

1054
01:33:32,639 --> 01:33:39,280
think would be a benefit to Boxboro
because we don't have many of them. It's

1055
01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:42,239
fairly impossible to find one.
>> Mhm.

1056
01:33:40,159 --> 01:33:48,320
» They've got to be affordable now.
>> No. Uh I think some fraction of them

1057
01:33:45,440 --> 01:33:54,320
have to be affordable.
there is I think a bet like kind of a

1058
01:33:50,800 --> 01:34:05,440
social benefit to this to the property
having mixed income. Um because

1059
01:33:59,199 --> 01:34:14,000
I like if you if it's all like 100% you
know low income or affordable um that

1060
01:34:11,440 --> 01:34:17,600
like keeps you more socially isolated
when you have a more when you have like

1061
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:22,320
mixed income and you have people of
different income levels all interacting

1062
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:26,400
in you know in in a community. I think
you get the most benefit out of that.

1063
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:31,520
Well, you could you could have
affordable homes that would could cost

1064
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:34,560
$600,000, you know, if you want to twist
it, right?

1065
01:34:32,719 --> 01:34:37,280
» But I'm I'm not going to be willing to
stand up in front of the town meeting

1066
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:39,679
and try to sell it.
>> Try to tell tell me a starter home for

1067
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:43,280
$600,000.
>> Yeah. Well, there's an affordable house

1068
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:48,159
here for $600,000. Folks, you all buy
it, right? Sure. We do. I think an argu

1069
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:53,440
argument could be made, but this is
something that the spectrum of how

1070
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:59,440
there's a a real weakness in the
spectrum of housing. It's available in

1071
01:34:55,360 --> 01:35:03,600
Boxboro and we're trying to, you know,
fix that

1072
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:07,120
» and and by going
two per per acre something like that,

1073
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:10,880
that
>> pains the equation, right? Because we're

1074
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:13,840
all on acre minimum lots, too.
>> Yeah. Right. That's why I really like 40

1075
01:35:13,199 --> 01:35:19,360
Y.
>> Yeah. The party is attractive to me

1076
01:35:16,480 --> 01:35:26,639
because I mean that's what the survey
said and I think personally war I tell

1077
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:32,960
anecdotally
that is something that box badly needs

1078
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:37,840
is dual income starter homes whatever
you call them

1079
01:35:34,239 --> 01:35:44,320
» the the I think I think and you know 40
y is new and I was I missed the part

1080
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:49,840
about the municipal war and so forth But
I really tried to pin the presenter down

1081
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:56,880
when we were up at evidence and I
thought I got the right answers. But

1082
01:35:51,760 --> 01:36:02,400
» I think some careful reading of um
statute I just read

1083
01:35:58,639 --> 01:36:06,560
» is that the minimum density for 40y
is four units per acre.

1084
01:36:04,719 --> 01:36:09,520
» Yeah.
>> Which sounds sounds pretty feasible for

1085
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:14,400
that property honestly.
>> So we've got eight acres. So you've got

1086
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:20,960
8 * 32
>> and you're going to have 8 * 32 * 2 kids

1087
01:36:18,159 --> 01:36:22,800
in your school.
>> So

1088
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:26,159
» you're being careful with those numbers
because there's constraints

1089
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:31,440
» on
>> radius and wellhead and ledge and all

1090
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:37,199
that. So we can't fit
>> eight times four.

1091
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:42,639
» Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think
>> so. Anyway, we could sit, you know,

1092
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:48,320
» I'm I'm saying for that for that for the
acreage that we have, there's about you

1093
01:36:45,440 --> 01:36:56,719
could at that rate about use about 3
acres of it for housing and then the

1094
01:36:52,080 --> 01:37:01,280
rest of it for other amenities.
>> I bet you that you won't find it.

1095
01:36:59,199 --> 01:37:05,920
» That will work.
>> But 8 acres now that are developable for

1096
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:09,920
housing. I think it's eight.
>> I think it that's what we figured. We

1097
01:37:08,159 --> 01:37:13,360
haven't done an analysis. There might be
ledge and everything else.

1098
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:15,920
» Well, 20 Yeah, 20 that would be 24 units
and that's way beyond the capacity of

1099
01:37:15,199 --> 01:37:20,400
the land.
>> Right. What we could do is to say we can

1100
01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:25,280
only build on this portion of the land.
Okay. For geographical reasons

1101
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:29,679
» and donate the rest of it to the town
for municipal purposes,

1102
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:33,280
» right? Yeah. which makes sense to me
because we can't build

1103
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:37,760
» and and I'm saying like if if if you use
like a co-ousing model and you had a a

1104
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:42,639
cert
center that had multiple purposes, you

1105
01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:45,520
could collaborate with the town on that.
The town could use it for different

1106
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:52,400
things. like most of the co-housing
communities in the area also like host

1107
01:37:49,440 --> 01:37:57,280
other groups and events and stuff in
their common house because it's it's a

1108
01:37:55,920 --> 01:38:01,520
great resource
>> and also we need some of the other quite

1109
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:07,840
quite a bit of the other land
>> for wells and septic system too. It's

1110
01:38:05,119 --> 01:38:11,199
not I mean we can't I don't know quite
how much that is probably around five or

1111
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:16,639
six acres
>> that we need for that.

1112
01:38:12,639 --> 01:38:20,960
» Yeah. So, uh, I mean, we with the
housing, we might have room for a

1113
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:24,239
community center, we might not, but I
think we could comfortably use all the

1114
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:27,840
land that we have.
>> Mhm.

1115
01:38:25,440 --> 01:38:32,880
» Well, I think I think the town would the
town, you know, the economic committee,

1116
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:38,960
the conservation committee, etc., etc.,
all have some ideas as to how that

1117
01:38:36,159 --> 01:38:43,360
extra, so to speak, land could be used.
What trails or whatever.

1118
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:49,440
» Yeah. Well,
of things like a town center and stuff.

1119
01:38:46,719 --> 01:38:53,360
» So if you use three acres of it for 40 Y
housing, you have the rest of the

1120
01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:58,080
acreage per
whatever else.

1121
01:38:54,560 --> 01:39:00,800
» Well, you're going to use plus
>> whatever it takes for septic as well.

1122
01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:04,239
That's
>> Oh, yeah, that's it.

1123
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:09,520
» So that's going to be community center.
got to have some septic system in

1124
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:14,320
» the requirements for a community center
for that are not as stressful as those

1125
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:16,560
for uh dwelling.
>> Mhm.

1126
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:18,159
» So probably that's not going to add too
much load.

1127
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:22,719
» Yeah.
>> I mean um

1128
01:39:20,719 --> 01:39:27,040
but
a lot of things to think about,

1129
01:39:25,679 --> 01:39:31,440
» you know, maybe maybe what you're saying
is right. I I don't know. I I don't

1130
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:36,719
think we need to have a commercial
development in order to get get on there

1131
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:41,040
what we want to have done, but I may be
wrong. I don't we'd have to work through

1132
01:39:38,639 --> 01:39:44,639
some pricing and some alternatives and
say, well, what is the market really

1133
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:47,520
able to sustain?
And you know, you're going to come in

1134
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:52,719
and someone's going to say, well, it's
going to be affordable and you know, for

1135
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:56,560
a four family or for a six person
household,

1136
01:39:54,080 --> 01:40:00,719
» you know, your your annual income could
be, I don't know, call it $100,000.

1137
01:39:59,600 --> 01:40:05,920
And if [clears throat] you can afford
that amount of money, you can afford a

1138
01:40:02,480 --> 01:40:10,080
$500 to $400,000 home. And you know, you
got to convince everybody that's what we

1139
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:13,920
want to do. And you know, and they're
going to want to say, "Sure, I'm glad

1140
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:18,719
they have it."
>> I can tell you that I have kids and

1141
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:22,400
$500,000 hole over $600,000. It's a
bargain right now.

1142
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:27,520
» You know, you got the money.
>> It is.

1143
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:32,480
» Yeah. Apparently I that still like makes
my eyes bug out thinking about those

1144
01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:37,760
numbers because I'm just like
>> well I think Massachusetts Massachusetts

1145
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:42,239
says gee we got to we got to have
affordable housing for to keep technical

1146
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:45,840
people here but I've never met a company
yet that wouldn't pay up for the

1147
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:50,760
technical people that they wanted. So I
don't

1148
01:40:46,239 --> 01:40:50,760
» well if you work in tech sure it's fine.

1149
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:57,280
» People throw around the term affordable
but there's a lack of precision about

1150
01:40:56,159 --> 01:41:04,639
what they mean.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz cuz affordable

1151
01:41:01,119 --> 01:41:10,639
here by and large when we say what our
affordable units are in Boxboro most of

1152
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:16,800
it's 40B like a large chunk of it 40B.
But if you're offering a home that would

1153
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:20,639
market at 800,000 and selling it for
600,000,

1154
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:24,239
could you call that affordable?
>> I don't know.

1155
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:28,800
» Well, it seems reasonable.
>> I mean, if that is that 80% AMI,

1156
01:41:28,159 --> 01:41:33,600
» you know,
>> 110% of AMI for a six person household,

1157
01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:39,520
eight person household.
>> What? But this 80% AMI is not in any of

1158
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:44,080
the
it's not we people don't get that

1159
01:41:41,199 --> 01:41:49,520
numeric you talk about it.
>> So that's unclear

1160
01:41:47,199 --> 01:41:54,199
affordable means less than the market
price to most people.

1161
01:41:51,199 --> 01:41:54,199
» Yeah.

1162
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:58,600
» Well there you have it.

1163
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:03,560
Well, some still out there.

1164
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:07,320
» You're still there?

1165
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:11,719
» I am.

1166
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:22,639
» I my my take on it is we should look
into 40 Y. I I think 40 to me 40 Y is a

1167
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:27,840
good fit. Now maybe there are some
problems with it that you know I haven't

1168
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:35,119
caught or we don't know about but I
think digging a bit deep into 40 Y

1169
01:42:31,679 --> 01:42:40,560
uh to see what really is possible or
whether it is you know the fit it seems

1170
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:45,840
to be would make sense for us that's
what I my opinion is

1171
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:51,840
» I agree
>> now we just have to analyze it and see

1172
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:56,880
» I say I like option Would
>> would the board like me would it would

1173
01:42:54,239 --> 01:43:01,040
the board like me to set up a meeting
sometime over the next few weeks to

1174
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:07,040
discuss this with whoever the 40y
coordinator at EOHLC is

1175
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:10,400
» and I can get a hold of them and and
schedule some time.

1176
01:43:08,480 --> 01:43:15,600
» Yeah, I mean it looks good to me but
maybe when we like Chan says maybe when

1177
01:43:12,719 --> 01:43:19,040
we look into it more detail we find you
know it's not that good. And I'll bet

1178
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:22,400
that that person might be able to
actually look at what we have and be

1179
01:43:20,480 --> 01:43:26,920
able to tell us if it's very feasible or
not. You know,

1180
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:37,840
cuz what everybody complains about and
what the data shows, matter of fact, is

1181
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:41,920
that we need starter homes in Boxboro.
And what's wrong with that? I mean,

1182
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:46,480
those are homes for families, for young
people, and everything else for all a

1183
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:48,719
bunch of old aers. I mean, you know, it
would be good for box play in my

1184
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:52,719
opinion.
>> I mean, I think it would be great to

1185
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:57,199
have it half and h like half and half
like geared towards starter homes for

1186
01:43:55,440 --> 01:44:02,639
young families and the other half of it
more towards seniors who are sizing

1187
01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:06,639
down, right? Like that seems to be kind
of the needs of the town because I'm

1188
01:44:04,719 --> 01:44:09,119
hear I I hear both sides.
>> Yeah.

1189
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:15,920
» Yeah. How do how do we answer the
question? I guess that's the question.

1190
01:44:12,719 --> 01:44:19,760
Have I talk to somebody and sort through
a little bit?

1191
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:23,760
» I you know
Yeah, that's what I think. I think we

1192
01:44:21,199 --> 01:44:29,199
ought to I think you ought to do that
myself. I think let's look into 40 wide.

1193
01:44:26,719 --> 01:44:32,320
» Mhm. you you can be part of the group
that looks into 40 wide to see if

1194
01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:35,840
there's
>> and then if we find that there's some

1195
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:40,480
aspect of it that doesn't really quite
work for our town specifically maybe

1196
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:47,040
then we could go with option one and do
kind of a modified 40y

1197
01:44:43,679 --> 01:44:52,560
of some sort
we just so long as the process keeps

1198
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:56,800
moving along so that we can either
discard what we really just can't handle

1199
01:44:54,960 --> 01:45:03,280
because it's either too complicated or
too lengthy or whatever as long as we

1200
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:10,239
can and keep focusing on what we can do.
>> Another possibility and one advantage of

1201
01:45:06,480 --> 01:45:17,199
talking to a person about it is as Ian
points out 40 is kind of new and in the

1202
01:45:14,400 --> 01:45:20,560
process of formation. I mean we might
actually be able to influence

1203
01:45:19,119 --> 01:45:25,199
» Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The the way the
program is structured by telling them

1204
01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:29,440
our situation and what
>> I think it's a good opportunity.

1205
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:37,119
» Yeah. So we could take advantage of the
fact that things are

1206
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:40,560
» quite not quite worked out in 40 land
>> have some plasticity.

1207
01:45:38,719 --> 01:45:46,239
» So do we do we all
>> Well, it's it's got to you guys. Um

1208
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:50,400
» I'm telling you what I think. What is it
what does everybody else think?

1209
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:56,719
Well, I'm I'm glad to take another look
at what at at the U DMR whatever it is

1210
01:45:54,880 --> 01:45:59,840
69
uh highlight what I think of the

1211
01:45:58,239 --> 01:46:05,520
problems
and then if someone thinks that they can

1212
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:09,360
solve the problems that's
an action item [clears throat] for them

1213
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:14,400
I guess because
I don't I don't I really don't want to

1214
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:17,360
fool around with 4. It's new. You know,
I don't want to be the one that gets

1215
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:24,320
tangled in the spaghetti trying to sort
through it and the density bothers me.

1216
01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:30,320
Um, but you know, just was just my I
wonder if the the four houses breakers

1217
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:36,080
includes septic. Well,
well, there is a wastewater issue thing,

1218
01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:39,840
although it isn't the municipal thing,
>> but I but I, you know, I'm just one

1219
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:45,840
voice in this.
Um, Jim, you mentioned that you liked

1220
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:50,320
option five. I could see that since
since uh option five isn't actually an

1221
01:46:48,480 --> 01:46:53,600
overlay that it could conceivably be
combined with 4. I don't see why I don't

1222
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:58,480
really see why not.
>> I mean, I I just think that I guess for

1223
01:46:56,880 --> 01:47:02,719
me, my view, and I'm a longtime
resident, so I'm not I'm not looking for

1224
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:08,800
affordable housing, but it seems like to
me, you've got a nice parcel,

1225
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:14,239
you have space. Why are you trying to
jam everything together? Like you could

1226
01:47:12,400 --> 01:47:18,320
take the houses, maybe spread them out a
little bit, maybe do two per acre or

1227
01:47:16,639 --> 01:47:21,360
something like that, and then yeah,
you've got to do the well and stuff. It

1228
01:47:19,760 --> 01:47:26,639
just seems like to me you're trying to
jam it all on an acre. Jam it all on an

1229
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:31,440
acre and then yeah, it just doesn't seem
it doesn't seem consistent with the town

1230
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:35,520
rural character that we like to claim.
And I know that there's a lot of

1231
01:47:33,199 --> 01:47:40,960
developments that are much tighter than
that, you know, but you know, we're

1232
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:46,400
we're limited in how many units we can
put up by well septic. So why are we

1233
01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:51,040
trying to like jam them all on three
acres of it or two acres of it, right?

1234
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:56,159
That's that's kind of my feeling.
>> And if that's the case, then you could

1235
01:47:53,440 --> 01:48:00,239
do what do they call it? I'll make sure
I call it the right option five, which

1236
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:04,719
was the friendly chapter B.
>> Yes.

1237
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:09,920
Well, that's what the uh committee ages
ago decided on. That's what that's what

1238
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:16,400
we decided. But I really think I like
Ian's idea of tracking down somebody who

1239
01:48:13,199 --> 01:48:21,280
could talk to us about wide and we could
just have a informal discussion with

1240
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:26,719
them about what we are thinking and find
out what they're thinking.

1241
01:48:24,719 --> 01:48:31,040
» So shall we go forward with that?
>> I think so. And that doesn't exclude the

1242
01:48:28,639 --> 01:48:35,679
possibility of still doing um you know
the friendly 40b or doing it in coll in

1243
01:48:34,480 --> 01:48:40,000
combination with it.
>> No indeed it might actually do in the

1244
01:48:37,840 --> 01:48:44,320
whole 40 wide thing. If we find
something we don't like that's untenable

1245
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:46,480
then we'll stop talking about it.
>> Mhm.

1246
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:51,239
» Yeah.
>> I guess that's your action item being

1247
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:58,239
» I'm on it. I'll reach out to him
tomorrow. I I'm certain that the 40y

1248
01:48:56,239 --> 01:49:04,400
page does have a contact at the bottom.
So, I'll start that ASAP

1249
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:09,760
because we know how long it can take to
hear back from them.

1250
01:49:06,480 --> 01:49:14,080
» Britney has better note from the last um
ARHC

1251
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:17,920
meeting and has the and has the contact
jotted down for

1252
01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:21,600
» Oh, perfect. I didn't know that they
they did something at the

1253
01:49:19,679 --> 01:49:25,040
» Yeah, they did they did a presentation.
>> Oh, awesome. That's where that's where I

1254
01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:32,159
first learned about it. And then in the
housing leadership academy thing um one

1255
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:37,440
of the um locations out in oh for it's a
town that begins with R out in um

1256
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:42,440
Northshore. Um but they were working on
trying to apply that in their town.

1257
01:49:39,440 --> 01:49:42,440
» Nice.

1258
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:54,719
» Okay. Great. Thank you. Is that all J?
Yeah. Okay. Uh the final item is the is

1259
01:49:51,199 --> 01:49:59,119
the letter to sent to the tenants
out of here or what is the status on

1260
01:49:57,040 --> 01:50:02,960
that? I know we looked at the letter
last week. Uh

1261
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:08,639
» yeah, I don't think I don't think we
ended up sending it out. I might have

1262
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:13,119
dropped the ball on that. Um unless
Wendy did was I supposed to have sent

1263
01:50:10,400 --> 01:50:18,639
that to you
and then maybe I didn't.

1264
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:26,080
» I think so. Ian and I briefly touched
base on it like a week or two ago,

1265
01:50:23,679 --> 01:50:33,199
but I think we were supposed to get some
>> Yeah, I had finished it. Um I had

1266
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:39,600
finished editing it, but I'm not sure if
I

1267
01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:46,320
I'm not sure where its final draft is.
Um I'll put that on my agenda. uh uh

1268
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:51,280
find or at least
find what I can for tomorrow morning.

1269
01:50:49,199 --> 01:50:54,719
» Well, my memory is we were pretty happy
with the

1270
01:50:53,280 --> 01:51:01,199
» we're talking about the letter that we
had at the um at Viper Day at the table,

1271
01:50:59,119 --> 01:51:06,000
right? Yeah.
>> So, uh Okay. So, you two are going to

1272
01:51:04,239 --> 01:51:11,440
work on getting it out of here.
>> Yeah. And this also this also has on it

1273
01:51:09,440 --> 01:51:15,840
that we invited we're inviting people to
the housing board meeting on the fourth

1274
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:21,320
Tuesday of each month and specifically
the one um on the 25th.

1275
01:51:24,719 --> 01:51:32,880
» Okay. That's sort of a then I that's if
I got it straight that's kind of a dual

1276
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:36,239
action item between Wendy and you Wendy
and Ian.

1277
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:39,520
» Yeah I believe so.
Yep.

1278
01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:47,760
» Okay. Well, let's see if we can get this
out of here. Um, let's see. Huh.

1279
01:51:45,360 --> 01:51:54,000
It would be actually good to get more
people in at the uh August meeting.

1280
01:51:51,679 --> 01:51:58,159
Um,
does the does the board feel that we can

1281
01:51:56,080 --> 01:52:03,520
just,
you know, make editorial changes and get

1282
01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:08,000
it out of here without further approval
by the board?

1283
01:52:05,440 --> 01:52:11,920
I think so.
I'm going to go ahead and send this as a

1284
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:15,119
link to Ian
>> if that's okay. I think that's what we

1285
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:19,560
should do. Otherwise, we won't get it
out in a timely way for the

1286
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:28,960
» So, unless I enter your objections,
we'll we'll figure out how to get it out

1287
01:52:27,119 --> 01:52:32,960
of here, make the corrections, and then
send it out.

1288
01:52:31,199 --> 01:52:37,199
» Yeah, I think that's fine.
>> Sounds good.

1289
01:52:34,719 --> 01:52:44,400
Yeah.
>> Well, I think that's all we have.

1290
01:52:42,480 --> 01:52:51,920
Certainly been an interesting meeting.
Um, we learned a lot.

1291
01:52:48,719 --> 01:52:59,280
As always, facts produce more questions
than answers, but that's the way it is.

1292
01:52:57,280 --> 01:53:02,800
Excuse me. I'm sorry. Excuse me. When's
the next meeting?

1293
01:53:00,320 --> 01:53:06,719
» August 25th.
So, I do just want to confirm that we

1294
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:10,719
are not planning to have a second
meeting in the month of August, but

1295
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:15,920
instead we're just opting for the one
housing production forum to finish off

1296
01:53:13,599 --> 01:53:19,760
the summer.
>> Wait, is that on August 25th? So, that's

1297
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:22,480
» August 25th.
>> There's going to be a house, what is it?

1298
01:53:21,679 --> 01:53:27,360
A housing
>> housing production forum

1299
01:53:24,639 --> 01:53:31,199
» production. Al, I'll reach out to you in
Channing over the next week. We can set

1300
01:53:29,119 --> 01:53:38,560
up a time to meet. Um, in the meantime,
I'll get some promotion promotional

1301
01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:41,760
materials in the hands of those um who
need it.

1302
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:44,719
» Okay. So, do I keep that on the calendar
and is there going to be an agenda cuz

1303
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:50,320
there's
>> there will be Yes. Yeah. For the time

1304
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:52,719
being, just assume it's a regular
meeting. Um,

1305
01:53:51,199 --> 01:53:55,360
» that's a regular time, right? The
fourth.

1306
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:58,080
» Yeah. Are you talking about the the town
calendar?

1307
01:53:56,320 --> 01:54:02,719
» Yeah, the town calendar. If you have it
up there, it wouldn't wouldn't hurt just

1308
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:08,000
to say box uh box housing board
meeting/housing production form.

1309
01:54:06,159 --> 01:54:11,280
» Okay, I can just change the name. It's
probably already up there because I set

1310
01:54:09,599 --> 01:54:14,960
it for every fourth Tuesday.
>> Perfect.

1311
01:54:12,320 --> 01:54:18,520
» So say housing
production form.

1312
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:21,560
» Yep.

1313
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:29,440
And if if I think if items accumulate
that we need to deal with in a timely

1314
01:54:27,599 --> 01:54:32,800
fashion,
uh we might have a meeting there in

1315
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:38,679
August, but let's not plan it now. Let's
see how many items accumulate and only

1316
01:54:35,679 --> 01:54:38,679
meet.

1317
01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:46,080
» So with that being said, do I hear a
motion to adjourn?

1318
01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:48,400
» So move.
>> Second.

1319
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:51,360
» All right.
Uh, Channing in favor. I

1320
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:54,719
» I
>> I

1321
01:54:53,360 --> 01:55:00,760
uh Joel Joe
>> I

1322
01:54:56,880 --> 01:55:00,760
» Okay, there.