How are you?
As bad as it sounds
for a while.
There's not
Good stuff.
All right.
Okay.
Yes.
All right, perfect. Hey, welcome
everyone. Thanks for coming to our
meeting tonight for our business
meeting. If you could please rise and
join us for the pledge of allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
Okay.
[clears throat] Well, welcome everyone.
Thank you for showing up to our monthly
business meeting. And uh Mr. Campbell,
let the record reflect that all three
trustees are present. Even Mr. Becker
who had a little health scare. So glad
you could be here with us. I'm glad
you're doing all right.
>> That's fine.
>> The uh before we get into things, I'll I
always like to go over this so everyone
knows. Uh here in just a moment, we're
going to have public comments and public
comments uh are you have comment cards
back there and that's for you to talk
about anything that you want. You get
five minutes to talk to the board and
things that are on your mind. If you're
here for a couple of the zoning cases,
which I'm betting some of you probably
are, uh I would suggest holding your
comments until we get to that zoning
case because basically you're going to
have to repeat yourself twice. Uh if
that makes sense. So,
>> [clears throat]
>> um for the sake of that, I would say
wait till we get to that zoning
resolution case. Uh but uh if you have
anything else on your mind here in just
a moment, you want to grab a public
comment card back there, fill that out,
and then we'll come by and grab that uh
here in just a moment. Uh so, Mr. Mr.
Campbell, are there any correspondents
for tonight?
>> Yes, sir. I have two. The first one is a
liquor permit. Uh, this is a new permit
for Amy's FNB LLC,
uh, doing business as scramblers. 4375
Ferguson Drive, Sweet C, Cincinnati,
Ohio 45245.
Um,
police department says I have no
objections and Mr. Flowy has sent over
the corresponding zoning and it is
permitted in that use.
Uh second, I've got a um a letter from
the Cincinnati Snapdragons
uh thank you card. Really says to our
friends at Union Township, thank you
again for all your support of the
Snapdragons.
Our athletes had fun playing baseball
this season.
Please accept our donation as gratitude
for all you do. The Cincinnati Stop
Dragons.
That concludes the correspondence. Good
job, Mr. Campbell. Appreciate that very
much. And uh Okay, personnel actions
tonight. And uh Mr. Taylor, they are
both for you. So, I will throw the floor
over to you and I'm going to let you
introduce the first candidate, sir.
» Thank you, Mr. uh Dills. Uh oh. Stand in
front of the podium.
>> To the podium.
Just turn around the
other side.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, we're the ones that got to vote on
you. So, [laughter]
>> it's all right.
>> We're going to we're going to use this
video future
>> after we hear from the audience.
[laughter]
>> Thank presenting to the board of
trustees Eric Lenslogger for
consideration of employment with the
Union Township Service Department. Mr.
Lens Slogger is a resident of Claremont
County.
Mr. Lton Slogger has uh an extensive
background in construction, concrete,
and blacktop, having spent many years in
the private sector as well as the public
sector. Uh Mr. Louden Slogger has
successfully completed all
pre-employment phases for the
maintenance worker one position. I would
like to request that the board appoint
Mr. or will Eric Lens Slogger to the
position of maintenance worker one in
accordance with the collective
bargaining agreement at the two-year
rate. Mr. Lton Slugger start date would
be September 2nd, 2026.
>> Got it.
>> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chiller. Uh Mr.
Becker, anything for Eric?
>> Uh just want to say uh thank you for
considering Union Township for
employment. You sound like you are
qualified for the position.
>> Thank you.
Mr. Luke, sir.
>> Uh, hey, no, just we're looking forward
to welcoming you to the team. We have uh
so much trust and respect in uh uh your
boss, Mr. Taylor, and so we know anyone
that he brings forward is uh uh going to
be a great asset to to support him and
the team. So, we're looking forward to
having you. Thanks.
>> The uh Eric, yeah, you you got your
family here?
>> I did not.
>> No, it's okay. No sweat. The uh uh
Claremont County resident, fantastic. A
lot of asphalt experience. uh you you'll
definitely be a good fit for the team.
Uh service department is a great group
of guys. You're going to love them. So
they'll have your back. Everyone's
teammanship mentality. Uh so you you'll
love it. So um yeah, welcome to the
team. So uh give me just one more minute
and then by the way, after we get done
voting, if you could uh hang out to the
side just for a minute and then we got
one more in the service department, then
we'll grab a picture with you before you
go. Okay. Perfect. Yeah, no sweat. So uh
gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion for
the approval of the hire of Eric
Lenslagger. That's not German, is it?
>> To the position of maintenance worker
one at the step three two-year rate
consistent with the collective bargain
agreement with effective date of
September 2nd, 2026 pending successful
completion of physical examination.
>> So move second.
>> All right. Any discussion? Mr. Campbell.
Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> Congratulations, Eric.
Eric.
>> Eric.
» Yeah.
>> Congratulations.
>> He's new here.
>> Congratulations.
>> Congrats. Welcome aboard.
>> Congratulations.
>> Congrats, Eric.
» Thank you.
>> And there just hang out real quick.
>> Either way. Yeah. the uh do whatever you
want.
>> Mr. Taylor, sir, I will throw the floor
right back over to you, sir.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dills. Uh tonight, I
would like to present an employee for
consideration of promotion. I would like
to present John Cascaden for the
position of maintenance worker 2, Mr.
Cascaden. Cascaden has been a service
department employee since 2006. During
his tenure, Mr. Cascaden has worked in
all facets of the service department. He
has also became a certified playground
safety instructor and has also received
a certification in parks and recreation
management from the NR NP.
Mr. Cascaden also has an associates
degree in business administration and
has successfully completed all facets of
the promotion
>> and tested for his weight. [laughter]
So, um, no, we're we're thrilled that you continue your service
with us. Uh, so thank you for that.
John, you got your family here, right?
>> Let me please point them out. Point
[clears throat] them out, please.
[snorts]
» Yeah, I saw I saw
>> our dispatch. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, good. Good. The uh uh John,
good people, man. 20 years you've been
with Union Township. Appreciate you very
much. And uh no doubt you're a leader
within the team. And uh I know Mr.
Becker has. I have. We've seen you
downstairs at the gym many many times
getting out after 12:00 noon for
lunchtime like clockworks. So uh but you always step up and help help uh the
whole team whenever needed. So
appreciate you very much. Also I've
heard Mr. Taylor said you went back and
got several certifications education
while you've been here for the past 20
years. Appreciate you very much. So uh
no doubt we want you to stay here and
retire with us. So you're doing a great
job. So appreciate you very much. Yeah
absolutely. So uh gentlemen I'll
entertain a motion for the approval for
the promotion of John Cascaden Jr. to
the position of maintenance two worker
maintenance worker two at the step five
5-year rate consistent with collective
bargaining agreement effective date
August 12th 2026
>> move
okay
» all All right. And by the way, s they're
going to clear off for a second. If
anyone has a public comment card, Miss
is going to be walking around right
there. If you could hand that to her.
This is not for zoning cases. Just just
public comment. She's going to grab
those.
Anyone? Oh, it looks like looks like
Jude's got one. Perfect.
All right.
Okay.
All right.
Perfect. Perfect. Thanks, M.
Okay. Got a few of them. No sweat. All
right. No particular order. Uh, all
right. First one. Uh, is it Mark? Is it
Blackham? Did I say that correct? Mark.
See, sir, come on up. And then, uh, just
do me a favor. You got five minutes and
whatever's on your mind, just state your
name and address for the record. But you
are good to go, sir.
My name is Mark Blackham. My address is
4257
Court Ohio
and
trustees.
>> Thank you.
>> Uh come before you to uh just express my
concern about the license plate readers
that have been placed. Um I work in IT
and uh concerned about information that
is gathered. Um how it's used
and the access to that information.
I don't know if there are any um
procedures
and policies that are in place that
would protect the citizens of their
people.
And the other point that I have is that
one of the cameras was was placed in the
property.
>> Okay.
>> And concerned about the privacy.
>> Sure.
>> So it's kind of pointing in towards my
backyard. So
>> Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. The uh
Anything else, Mr. Black? What's that?
>> Is there any
policies or procedures that we have
citizens?
Now, the now there are other agencies
that are allowed access to our cameras
if we allow them. And the best way I can
explain that to you is if another
department in another state is looking
for a stolen car that they believe might
be in Ohio, specifically Union Township,
they may ask for permission to access
our camera system to see if that
particular plates's been through Union
Township. And we would typically grant
that.
>> And how often does that happen?
Typically,
>> quite quite quite quite frequently. that
we have other departments around the
country request access to our cameras,
but that doesn't mean that they have
access to every still shot of every car
that's been through Union Township. That
just means that they are allowed to see
if the plate or the car they are looking
for has been through Union Township.
Sir.
>> So in in short,
the positive side of that is criminal
activity
that could be associated with a plate
is what is looked for via like an
algorithm,
>> right? I mean, I don't know how much you
know about the cameras, sir, but they're
not they're not surveillance in in the
respect of there's an officer sitting at
the station watching the cameras and
it's a live feed. They strictly take
pictures of cars as they go by. So it's
a imagine a still shot of a vehicle with
a license plate on the back.
>> Yeah.
>> Does it even maintain visual images or
does it essentially
strip the license plate so that like
>> strictly a picture of a car? If if your
officers or another entity is looking to
find a license plate number that that's
the only license plate number that's
going to hit if it hits because it came
through that camera.
>> If if they give us a license plate
number. Yeah.
>> So is this camera in a in a neighborhood
or is it on a main drag?
>> It's on um
>> Okay. Because because there are HOA
cameras that are not controlled by by
the township.
>> These are township cameras. Okay.
» Yeah, I believe I know the camera you're
talking about. Those cameras, they're
not positioned. We don't have any in in
neighborhoods. They're usually along
Thorough affairs. However, I can't
guarantee the the camera that's aimed at
a thoroughare doesn't catch a house or
two in your neighborhood. I think I know
the camera you're talking about, though.
>> Is that one of ours or is that an HOA?
>> That's one of ours.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
our our cameras are only that that the
township leases are only on thorough
affairs. Think old 74 125 uh Mount
Carmel Tobasco Road. They're not back in
neighborhoods on on on township streets.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Well, and so what is the retention
period on that?
>> 30 days.
>> Yeah. Th So those those still shots that
are taken are captured for 30 days. So
if you drive by by one today, you're
placed captured for 30 days. Then the
camera overwrites it. So we have 30 days
a 30-day look back period on those.
» Correct. Correct.
» So is there any reports on
the destruction of that information?
>> They're strictly wrote over. I I'm sure
that if we did a breakdown, we could
tell what plates for what period of time
were captured in our system if we did an
audit on it. But we trust that the
system overwrites it every 30 days. And
it's a pretty easy check. I mean, we can
check if we if we've looked for a
certain license plate on a certain date.
If it's still in there 30 days after 30
days from then, then we'll know the
system's not working correct.
» I just have concern in general about it.
>> Sure. gathering information about our
citizens. You know, I I would expect
that, you know, if I was in a prison or
incarcerated, but in our environment, I
don't expect that, you know, to be
something that our government would be
gathering information about the citizens
and those types of things. I
frankly,
you know, probably looking at this
you know investigations and stuff
criminal activity uh our area is very
low you know crime area that's one of
the reasons why I live here and you know
having that extra surveillance as a
citizen something I don't really expect
to have here
» I completely understand hear your
perspective on it and I'm definitely
open continuing to hear, you know, your
type of concern, uh, community's
perspectives as well. Um, I I agree with
you too from your own individual
perspective as we live in a safe
community. Um, I guess I have somewhat
firsthand experience where uh, my wife's
car was stolen out of our driveway,
middle of the night, and the license
plate hit on flock cameras that were
along Beachmont Avenue somewhere. I
think it's Beachmont Avenue. Don't cite
me to that specific fact. It was
somewhere east of here through Anderson
Township. Um, and between that and
having a locator on the car that I
thankfully had uh with some other
possessions in the car, um, it it made
it so that the team was able to recover
that car within five hours since it was
stolen. Um, which was miraculous. But
that do recognize when you're in that
you know,
criminal activity comes to your
doorstep.
» Yeah.
» Me either. And I'd chat with you as long
as I could too on I carry this in my
pocket, right?
I carry this in my pocket like pretty
much everybody else here. And
this has a camera, microphone,
everything
>> you choose to take with you.
>> Yeah. With you. It's not
>> right.
>> I'm just telling you I I I hear you and
completely understand. And that that's
type of technology that has been
[clears throat] accessible to be able to
um
outside of our jurisdiction. That's all
I can say. Yeah.
>> Mr. Black, I'll just say this and then
uh and then I I I'll be good. But um it
solved a lot of crime very fast, very
quickly. If we if we do the old school
way, that's fine, too. We can absolutely
do that and pull them down. I don't have
a problem with that at all.
>> [snorts]
>> Um, if if someone was to break into your
car, uh, and you capture a a black
Toyota Camry, but that's all the
information you have at 11 o'clock at
night, we can run that data, type in
black Toyota Camry, and from 11:00 to
11:15 or 11:30, if it pass any of those
cameras, we can narrow it down and just
help the detectives. Oh, there's the
license plate. Let's track the address.
Let's go knock on a door. Um, it would
help solve crime, it does help solve
crimes a lot faster. However, uh if if
the community of Union Township feels
like it's it's they don't like them,
they don't want them, um that's that's
fine. We can we can take them down. Um I
don't think that's a sort of any one of
us is going to die or who any of us is
going to die on. I'll tell you, um
>> I just don't want to make a knee-jerk
reaction because I'll tell you, all the
surrounding police forces have them for
the most part. For the most part. And we would be the only ones that
didn't. Then then the question goes,
well then do you want us to access if
your house or car got broke into or
someone hit skip and they left, do you
want us to access flocks and Anderson,
Miami, Hamilton Township to try to track
down the criminal or is that unfair?
Should we not do that because we took
ours down? So those are questions that
we need to ask. So I don't want to make
an reaction, but I will say if the
community of Union Township solely feels
that this is a violation and it
violates, you know, our Fourth Amendment
rights, then um roger that. We'll pull
them down. Um, however, however,
um, we cannot complain when it takes
three, four, five weeks to solve a
simple break into a car when it could
have taken two hours. You know, and the
biggest example I can give is the Mason
shooting that happened. Guy got 22
bullets put in him and it was because of
a flock camera and tracked down the guy
on 275 and he got him real quick. Um,
would have happened that fast if they
didn't have flock cameras to to when that car passed that plate. Uh, so
questions we all have to just think and
ask ourselves, but uh, but I I for me,
I'll speak for me, it's not a hill I'm
willing to die on. If the community
doesn't want them, we'll pull them down.
However, I will say it does help solve
crime pretty quickly. Um, so but but but
all good, you know, I hear you loud and
clear though. Yeah.
>> Yeah. No problem. Thank you, sir.
Appreciate you.
>> Yeah, good question.
>> Okay, now Mr. Chair, looking at this
one, this one might be for you, just so
you know. So, you might want to take
down this name and address. Uh, I got a
Scott Shielman and hopefully I'm
pronouncing your name right. Shean
Shielman.
» 2016.
» Oh, I see your case number. Yeah. Yeah,
you're good. I I don't need this thing.
You're fine. Yep. Never mind. You're
good. [snorts] Okay, perfect. Sorry. The
uh Okay. Uh, let's see here. Uh, John
Hunt.
>> Mr. Hunt.
>> Oh gosh. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
So, yeah.
>> Yeah. You're good. You're good. No
sweat. Oh, our good friend, Mr. Dit.
Jude, come on up.
» Mr. Dit, you you know protocol. You go
on ahead. The floor is yours.
» Good evening, gentlemen. My name is
Jude, 392 Banks Road.
Um, I just wanted to congratulate all of
you, including the police chief, for a
wonderful police night out. It was
great.
>> It was
>> um I was helping with the food and
around the back of the concession stand
down at the bottom of the hill.
It was Now, I know that that was all
reworked this year. That land was re
It needs some smoothing. It needs some
It still needs a little bit of work. We
had trouble walking down the hill. Um
people with small children were the kids
were tripping. Um
it it just needs some some rework. So I
just wanted to let you know about that
and I will be back in the spring to
remind you to have done.
>> Which part of the park specifically?
>> Behind the concession stand.
>> No, gotcha. Gotcha. Michelle, are you
good on that?
>> We got you, Mr. Good call. Yeah. Yeah.
[clears throat]
>> But that was really the only problem I
saw.
» But I just let you know. I'll be back in
the spring.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> [clears throat]
>> But we had fun and it was all really
well done.
>> No,
>> thank you so much.
>> I appreciate the kind words and
encouragement. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
>> Thank you for volunteering.
>> Thank you.
>> The uh
>> Okay, last call. Is there any other
public comments at all? Anything on your
mind?
>> All right, seeing none, we'll close
public comments
and all right, department reports. Uh
let's start with our fire chief. Uh,
Chief Clemens, sir, floor is yours.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dills. Uh, real quick,
just an update on today's storm that
came through. Uh, I know a lot of a lot
of residents are currently without
power. Uh, notification from Duke is
that 40,000 residents within Claremont
County are currently out. Uh, could take
up to 24 hours to get everybody back up
and running. So, just an update on that.
We handled about 25 to 30 emergency
calls with trees and wires down within
that hour of the storm. So, it was a
pretty busy day for the fire department.
Um, so in the month of July, the fire
department responded to 231 fire and
service calls, 667
EMS calls, which totals 8uh 98 total
calls, which was average of 29 calls per
day. Made patient contact with 604
patients and transported 489 of those.
uh completed 808 hours of training, took
part in 13 public education details,
hosted ride time for EMT paramedic
students in a total of 78 hours, uh
completed 48 life safety inspections and
16 inspections in conjunction with
Claremont County Building Department.
And that concludes my report.
>> Thanks, Chief. Mr. Becker.
>> Um I'm good. Okay,
>> Mr. Luke, sir.
Chief, if anyone's having uh uh
pain in their jaw, pain in their left
arm, um chest tightness, sweating, uh
what should they do and how fast should
they do it? Yeah, all of those are some
serious uh symptoms uh which our
recommendation is to to call 911 as fast
as possible and get somebody get a
professional on scene to mitigate the
situation of transport.
>> Well, nobody told me that.
>> Okay.
>> Um [laughter]
should should should uh someone in that
condition uh then also drive themsel to
the hospital?
>> I'll leave that. You don't have to
answer that. You don't have to answer
that. I'll leave it at that. I'm good.
Thanks, Chief. [laughter]
I didn't expect. That was pretty funny.
>> That was funny.
>> Yeah.
>> Good opportunity to ask this fire chief
some questions.
>> You're good. You're good. Thank you,
chief. And then, uh, our police
department, uh, Chief Reese, sir.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dills. In the month of
July, the, uh, communications section
handled 5,332 calls for service. Our
record section processed uh 572
court related documents for juvenile and
adult court. We processed 148 uh court
notices requiring an officer's
appearance in court, handled 173 records
requests, and redacted 36 body camera
videos. In the area public relations,
officers conducted uh or took part
participated in six events, including
two active shooter response trainings
for area businesses. We participated in
the Fourth of July parade parade in
Shaylor Crossing, hosted a bike bicycle
safety event in the polar fields, and
participated in a quarterly outreach
program with Eastgate Walmart, and we
conducted one safety talk at a senior
living facility. In the area of
operations, our officers took 367
incident reports, 100 crash reports,
made 554 traffic stops, issued 176
citations, 354 warnings, made 98
criminal arrests, 91 traffic arrests,
and served 83 criminal warrants. In the
area of training, our officers attended
80 hours of training uh in the month of
July. Currently within the police police
department, we have three open police
officer positions and a open dispatch
position. Um, I just want to close by
thanking our residents. Uh, as Miss Dit
had noted, was another great police
night out. Uh, probably the highest
attendance we've had. And I also want to
thank, uh, my fellow department heads,
uh, Mr. Taylor and Chief Clemens. Um
just the touch of the the uh tower truck
and the flag uh helping with air care
landing. It it really it's the police
night out but it's really a township
event and I just appreciate the help of
all the other uh departments and making
it a success. And lastly um to echo
Chief Clemens comments today was an
absolute mess. Um I stopped in our our
dispatch center and I'm really proud of
our dispatchers. They handled a really
tough time incredibly, including one
dispatcher who literally got a phone
call while I was in there that a tree
came down and totaled her garage. Uh we
had extra help on today. She didn't
leave. Uh she stayed there. Uh and I
heard her tell her fellow dispatchers
she wasn't going to leave them in that
mess. So just so proud of of all our
people. They they work really hard for our township residents. That
concludes my report. Thank you.
>> Thanks, Chief Reese. Uh vice chair.
>> Uh yeah, a couple things. So, first off,
um, kudos on on police night out. It was
a once again a great event. Uh, on the
callout reports there, there was one
particular case I want to ask you about.
It was a child in dangering would occur
on July 14th. A little girl,
two-year-old, severe burns. So, two
questions.
How is she? What's her condition? Is she recovered and or or not? And and
what happened? Yeah. So, this was a
young girl in this this case you're mentioning. Uh she had
seconddegree burns. Long story short, no
criminal, no neglect involved here. This
was an apartment complex. The family
just moved in. Um this is a younger
child that got into the bathtub, turned
the water on, and the maintenance
unfortunately had the the water heater
settings very high. Um she the the
girl's doing fine. We we got her to the
hospital, treated her for the burns, and
she's okay.
>> All right. Good. Yeah.
>> Yeah. That that's that's easy to happen.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That's all I
have. Chairman,
>> Mr. L.
>> Hey, quick question, Chief, with um
again an interest to hear from the
community and and and and just really
keep the pulse with that. Uh like like
Trusty Dills said, um
cameras, um if the community wants them
or if the community doesn't want them,
um fine either way. uh would it be
impactful or difficult in the reporting
if if you know I'm not sure if there is
a count of when a flock camera's use in
the preceding 30 days like benefited
solving
a crime or apprehending someone or like
>> there's probably nothing ever positive.
I know maybe historically too now
there's a lot of discussion about flock
cameras and people are looking where
things are at and I understand there's a
police perspective of criminals
avoid
those cameras as they can. Um, so I I
don't know how much of that
help is is is positive for the
discussion to hear from the community,
but yeah, as far as just a count of
utilization, is that something that
>> Yeah, good question. And we're trying,
we're doing a much better job now
because this is such a polarizing topic
of tracking our success stories. I can
tell you these cameras are used every
day from minor misdemeanor shopliftings
where they get take off in a car to
major felonies. You know, we are solving
real crime every day with these cameras
and I wholeheartedly believe that the
township is much safer because we have
these cameras, but I do understand uh
the the effect and and the impression
that they leave on the community. Um
we're solving crimes every day with
them.
>> Is is there is there ability to to Yeah.
to have uh utilization.
>> Uh you do
>> you want like a hard number of how many
crimes we're solving monthly with them
>> to just just consider if that's if
that's a value ad to the discussion or
if the residents would want to would
want to know it um or or see it at a
trustees report. I don't know if Becker
or Dells would have something to add to
that concept, but it's just a question.
So, um I don't have a metric to say go find now, but if you're open to
seeing if he comes up with something or
hey, here's how it's a pro or a con and
or this utilization rate of the flock
cameras.
>> It's used every It's used Yeah, it's
been used 30 times in the last 30 days
and solved 30 crimes.
>> It would be interesting to see the the
crimes that have been solved. Um
especially I mean I think of the what
with the Venezuelan nationals that were
knocking off a sheriffax I think three
different times they got busted all
three times
>> with flockers
>> with flocks. I mean that's great stuff
and there's more and more stories like
that and I think a compilation of those
kind of stories is is great for the
community that want to hear that.
>> Yeah.
We can certainly do that.
>> Imagine the data pool's got to be be by
that auditor that investigative
sergeant. Yeah.
uh if it does not put too much of a
stress or bandwidth on the police
because you are three officers short
right now. Uh I say absolutely I'd like
to have those stats but if you can't you
can't I understand as well. So
>> that's we can do that for sure.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks.
>> Great question for you. Uh Chief I'll
say uh I'm looking here total calls
5,484
total calls to your dispatch center. Uh
that is a record for the year. It's the
most we've had uh was in July. Um, and the the the the stat I always like
to look at is how many traffic stops we
had. We had 554 traffic stops.
Obviously, those are variable for
running a stop sign to to, you know,
getting pulled over doing, you know, 85,
right? Um, but citations was 176, but
warnings was 354, you know. So, that's I
just I love that fact that we try to uh
not be hardline police officers and
understand, you know, things happen and
we let people off with a warning. I I
like that. So, But I but I will say I
agree with uh you and uh both you and
Chief Clemens and um Mr. Taylor, which
you're coming up next, but uh all three
of you, your team did a great job uh
preparing the lands, the landscape, and
the parks to get ready for police night
out. That's our biggest night of the
year. Great job to your team. And then
both of you both, I mean, I think you
all had just about equal amount of staff
there. So, uh, um, your firefighters and
police officers were greeting everybody
nicely and smiling and out and just, uh,
giving them tours of their trucks and
equipment and everything and, um, yeah,
just really awesome night. Great job.
You handled yourselves, uh, top-notch.
So, good job both of you. Appreciate it.
>> Thank you, sir.
>> Yeah. Well done.
>> The, uh, M. Taylor, your service
department, sir, you were up. Floor is
yours.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dills. In the cemetery
division from July 1st through the 31st,
16 burials were performed generating
$29,552.
18 resident crays were purchased for
$36,000.
Two column barium niches were purchased
for $6,000.
Uh nine foundation orders uh were
purchased for $2,934.
The total amount generated for the
period was 75,986.
In the parks division, uh weekly mowing
and trimming and landscape continues on
uh all township buildings and within our
parks. And in the roads division, the
road department patched a total of 96
potholes over 13 township streets and a
total of 23 work orders were completed
on multiple township roads. And that
concludes my report.
>> Great. Good job. Mr. Becker, sir.
>> Yeah. How
>> Mr. Lo? I'm good. Thank you. Uh Mr.
Taylor, your team's doing a good job.
And then uh um I think Mr. Cascaden, 20
years is well overdue for promotion. So
good night for him. I'm glad to hear
that.
>> The uh Okay, Mr. Flouty. Planning and
zoning director, sir. The floor is
yours.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dills. the inspection and
violations. This month, there were a
total of 38 inspections, 18 complaints
received, three of those complaints
being unfounded, eight [clears throat]
warning citations issued in the month of
July, three 15-day non-compliance
letters with one 30-day violation
letter. There were a total of 10
resolved with and without action
complaints, 496 illegal signs removed,
12 miscellaneous issues resolved for a
monthly total violation of 19 and one
nuisance filed within the month of July.
The activity we had one change of use,
seven signs issued, one temporary sale.
We had seven single family homes issued,
five additions, four decks,
eight accessories, and 11 pools and
fences for a monthly total of 44 permits
and a total revenue of $8,225.
And that concludes my report.
Mr. Vice Chair, I'm good. Mr. Lo,
>> good. Thank you, Mr. Flood.
>> Mr. FY, great job. You're busy. Nice
job. Uh, all right. Lastly is our
township administrator, Mr. Wright. Go
ahead, sir.
>> Thank you, sir. I'll be brief with the
zoning hearings. We have uh not much to
provide on the old 74
>> [clears throat]
>> uh schoolhouse to block box and sidewalk
systemic safety grant. Stage one plans
have been submitted to ODOT and that's
in process. Uh we have applied as I
mentioned previously for transportation
alternative funding for the Icult
expansion. is basically from Walmart
kind of getting us down to Ivy Point in
that I expect we will do well on the
scoring but OKI canled their August
meeting so we'll have to wait for good
news until September hopefully
uh when they score those projects. Uh
unfortunately, ODOT did not approve our
systemic safety grant application for
some road, but again we uh I am
relatively stubborn. So we are going to
reapply as they like the project, but
there was a lot of need. Um we did
however receive about $150,000 in CDBG
funding to advance a portion of
sidewalks on uh Somerside Road. So uh
we'll be working with the county through
that process. 2026 road rate road
resurfacing projects are underway. Uh
roads you'll start to see milling and
filling activities. Uh the bulk of the
activities to date have been curb
replacements throughout the county. And
again we we save a lot of money through
this program. Uh so a little bit of
delay is worth it because we are able to
stretch our paving dollars further every
year. Um work continues on the safe
routes plan. Uh Mr. Woodruff and Mr.
Flouty are all over that. I do have news
on the OPWC project on Elmont. All of
the easements have been secured. We're
waiting on utility relocations and the
county will be bidding that out. There
will be a separate sidewalk addition
that's not included in the OPWC grant
because of the way that they score those
projects. If you put a sidewalk in, they
penalize you. I don't understand why,
but anyway, we'll be bringing that to
the board for that when uh we get closer
to a bid award or a bid a bid award uh
number there. Um just a couple other
items. Uh we we are um we will be
bringing a Jed 9 expansion to you to add
an additional uh facility to that. Um
and we have a couple of nuisance
resolutions for the board and uh the
hazard mitigation plan. Just a couple of
late ads. We did have a uh then a
certificate for uh park uh water usage
and uh we also added uh uh we have an
OPWC joint application authorization
with u Miami Township for slide repairs.
The countyy's not doing slide repairs
unfortunately this year. So if we ban
together with another organization, we
tend to score better. Um
uh we're looking specifically at
Baldwin. Um,
last item, there's an item on on the
agenda to transfer a fire truck uh
disposed property to the CIC for
economic development purposes. And, uh,
that is something if you recall, we use
the CIC to acquire equipment, but we
also use it to dispose of equipment. So,
uh, that really concludes my report.
>> Thank you, sir. Uh, vice chairman.
>> No, I'm good. Mr. Loen,
>> I have nothing.
>> You're good.
>> Okay. That's right. Good. Good job.
Thank you for the report. Uh, okay.
Public hearings.
Now, there's four of them. I'm betting
you are most here for two of them out of
the four. Uh, so we put the two easiest
ones first so we can knock them out and
those folks can go home and then
obviously the latter two uh the end. So,
all right. Public hearings. Okay. And uh
public hearing case, Union Township
overlay case 3-26-
Oscar. Uh, Mr. Flouty, would you like to
go and explain that one, sir?
>> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Dills. This
application is located at 1118 Ferris
Road. The applicant is Mike Shabbesta,
and he is requesting approval from the
Union Township Board of Trustees for an
overlay district plan consisting of five
new structures. One of them being a 2500
twostory structure for a shop and office
use, while there'll be four additional
lean to/additions to the existing
structure. The applicant is additionally
seeking relief from the 10-ft and 20
foot M1 zoning district minimum setbacks
per article 6 to have the minimum rear
and sideyard setbacks be at 3'6 in and
this project is located in the Bach
Buckton Road commercial corridor. Some
background information, the primary
principal structure site was constructed
around 1988. Since that time, the main
building has primarily housed DFS
business entities and a variety of other
light industrial uses. They were
recently here in 2025 with another
accessory structure that was approved.
Some staff review and analysis. This
proposal meets the proposed intent of
both the adopted comprehensive land use
plan and the overall overlay district
regulations. The plan proposes the
expansion and/or addition of
pre-existing structures or uses such as
warehouses, stoages, and office [snorts]
spaces. No new lighting is proposed at
this time. When the time of permitting
comes, we'll need it subject to article
14 of the zoning resolution. And any non
enclosed structure generally used for
storage should be efficiently screened
from the main road via landscaping or
fencing to maintain maintain a cohesive
level of visual cleanliness.
The action required tonight is in
accordance with section 1310 of the
zoning resolution that the board of
trustees is to enter a motion to approve
as submitted, approve with modifications
or deny this focus area overlay district
application as pres presented in Union
Township zoning case 3-26-.
There are five recommended modifications
should the board choose to grant
favorably upon this application. The
first one being that the applicant shall
comply with the requirements of all
federal, state, and local agencies. All
future lighting shall meet the adopted
article 14
regulations of the zoning resolution.
Any monument signage shall be compliant
with the 2030 land use plan. The
applicant shall provide additional
privacy fencing and screening for
materials should any fall within out of
the completely enclosed building. And
lastly, the applicant shall review shall
be subject to review of the buildings
containing the number of structures,
square footage, location, and materials
subject to administrative review and
approval. And that concludes the report
for the overlay case 3-26-
» Mr. F. Do do we have any pictures of
what these future buildings are going to
look like?
>> Uh, we do not have any pictures of what
the actual architectural renderings, but
>> the applicant can speak better on this,
but it would match the existing
buildings. It would be a metal metal
construction. Uh, since this is in the
M1 district and the surrounding
buildings are in
>> Hold on one second, sir. Hold on. I'll
sir, I'll call you up in just one
second. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Um,
>> okay. Fair enough. Um, Mr. Becker, any
questions?
>> No.
>> Mr. Logan, any questions?
>> Not currently.
>> Okay. Um, [snorts]
Mr. Poly for future.
>> Um,
I get it. I I want pictures of what the
future buildings are going to look like
from now on. So, tell the applicants
from now. I'd like to see those. Okay.
just some kind of what they're going to
look like, not just, you know, not this.
>> Okay.
>> For for any new building. I would like
to see an actual,
>> you know, picture what it's going to
look like. So, okay, fair enough. No
worries. Uh, okay. Uh, gentlemen, uh,
I'll entertain a motion to open this
public hearing case, Union Township, uh,
overlay case 3-26-
Oscar.
>> So, move. Second.
>> Any discussion? Mr. Kimber, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Public hearing is opened at 6:48.
>> All right.
>> Public hearing is open. All right. So
now, sorry, forgot to follow protocol.
So, sorry. The I'll go and call you up.
So, first thing, well, first thing, just
so I'm going to I'll call anyone up that
is a proponent of this case, and then
I'll uh here's how I'm going to do this
with all zoning cases tonight. Just so
you know, there's four of them. I'm
going to call up usually the the person
that would like to have this passed. Uh
and then I'll call up anyone that's
against it. And then I'll then I'll call
up again. So, the developer, whoever's
purchasing the property, wants to do the
project to basically kind of counter any
answer any questions for those that are
against uh the case. Just, you know,
that's how I'm going to do it for the
every single case tonight. So, uh but
just do me a favor. I got to swear you
in and uh go ahead and raise your right
hand if you could.
>> Do you swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth, nothing but the truth. So,
hope you be God.
>> I do.
>> Okay, great. And then just state your
name and address for the right.
[clears throat]
>> Mike Shabbusta. Our business is located
at 1118 Ferris Road, Amelia, Ohio 45102,
I1 Anderson Township,
[clears throat] Fireside Drive.
>> Perfect. Yeah.
>> Uh the floor is yours. Whatever you like
to say. Yeah.
>> So, it turns out it's a very expensive
process to even start to think about
building a building. So, in this case, I
failed to put the two side pieces on
last year when I put the first building
in.
>> Yeah. So on this particular drawing, all
the way to the corner there next to
Dave's driveway, the white strip,
without
[clears throat] your approval, nothing
can happen. After that, you're looking
at $6 to $8,000 for a water management
study.
>> Uh it's, you know, you could spend 10
$15,000 before you could even ask the
architect to draw something.
So uh you're the first step. In this
particular case, I had an agreement with
Mr. Food's pro uh predecessor that I
would show all my future plans. So the
yellow things are things that we may do
down in the future. Each one of those
would require the initial zoning
application for that particular
structure.
>> Sure. So this is strictly to get the
dimension on that proposed structure now
and with the water management issues. Uh
the chances get slimmer every day
there'll ever be built.
>> Okay.
>> Uh the building has to come out far way
into the detention pond. And even though
there's never I won't say never this
week proved it. Uh I've never seen water
above the grass in the detention bond. M
>> there was two feet in there because
Ferris Road backed up and filled the
depend our detention pond on that end of
the building.
[clears throat]
>> A little further complication, the dock
at the corner of the yellow was the
original detention pond, but the
contractor builder didn't tell us that.
>> So it more complicated. So, I'm simply
trying to get this side
uh corrected on the east side. I'm doing
the west side so I don't have to come
back next year and waste your old time.
>> Sure. Got it.
>> Any questions about the process of the
approach or anything?
>> Vice Chairman?
>> No. Okay,
>> Mr. Luke.
>> No, this time. Thank you.
>> Uh, and you might not know this, Mr.
Flouty. um currently cuz I heard you say
what was what's the current setback and
then what's the setback that they're
asking for?
>> So there is the side setbacks of 10 ft
and then the rear set back of 20 and
overall they're asking for three 3T six
inches. So it's a reduction of it's like
16. Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> The back is already done last year. So
we're really talking the two sides
>> three not worried about it. Okay.
Perfect. And then total of five
buildings. Five buildings total.
>> Okay. Can you describe uh first what kind of business are you at?
>> Uh and then what
>> I do commercial real estate and I'm a
systems engineer so I do uh IT stuff.
>> Do well I guess are do you plan what do
you plan on doing with the buildings?
>> I rent out the 95% of the building to
Keep Electric.
>> Okay.
>> They're the neighbor to this side.
>> Sure.
>> They've expanded that. We've kind of
joined the two properties. So, we've
probably created
I don't know 75 jobs there.
>> Fair enough.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, parking is an issue. I I have
60 spaces and it's still not enough. So,
>> that's a good bad problem. The uh Well,
Mr. Shvevesa, appreciate you investing
in Union Township. Uh you're growing. I
appreciate that. Thank Thank you for
that. And uh um yeah, all good. That's
all the questions I have for you. So,
appreciate you very much. Thank you,
sir.
>> Thank you. Uh, is there any other
proponents to this case? Anyone that is
for this case?
Oh, please come on up. Yeah, the floor
is yours, please. And by the way, just
so everyone knows, every zoning case,
when you want to come up and speak, I
got to swear you in every time. All
right, come on up, sir.
And then uh just raise your right hand.
And then, sir, do you swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth. I think the
truth be to God.
>> I do.
>> Great. Uh, state your name and address
for the record.
>> My name is Dave Flourish. I own the
adjoining building 1120 Ferris Road.
>> Perfect. I also live in Anderson. Mike
and I discussed this.
>> Yeah.
>> He got me on board with what they wanted
to do. And um it's also in my also my
best interest also to have that setback
change.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh my ingress into my place if that
building has to be set out 20 ft from
that line is going to really limit the
size of building that I can build.
>> Got it.
>> Perfect.
>> I'm on board.
>> Fantastic. Well, I appreciate the
testimony. Yeah. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
sir. Appreciate you very
much. [clears throat] Okay. Is there
anyone else that is a proponent of this
case? I see none. Is there anyone that's
against this case? Opponent.
Last call. All right. No sweat. Okay. Um
All right. Uh gentlemen, honor a motion
to close public hearing case uh 3-26-
Oscar.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Uh Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills?
>> Yes. The public uh portion of this
hearing is closed at 6:54 p.m.
>> Okay. Uh gentleman discussion. Mr.
Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Fair enough. Mr. Log, any issues,
concerns?
>> I have none.
>> No. Okay. Good. Uh likewise. Uh
gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion for
the approval of Union Township overlay
case 3-26-
Oscar uh for the approval uh with
modifications as recommended.
>> So move.
>> Second.
>> Mr. Any further discussion? Mr.
Campbell. Roll call. Mr. Becker,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Lo,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Jills,
>> yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> Congratulations, Mike. You're
>> good.
All right.
>> Oh, you got it. No sweat. The uh
>> they're working together.
>> Oh. Oh, it is. It's the same the same.
Got it. Got it. I mean, Huh. Maybe I'll
change my mind on this one. The uh just
the uh Okay. Uh Mr. Flouty, sir. Overlay
case 4-26- an Oscar. I don't anticipate
this taking too long. You go ahead, sir.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dills. This is property
located at 1120 Ferris Road. It's
directly behind Mr. Abesta's property.
The applicant is special touch
landscaping, and they're requesting from
the board of trustees
an overlay district plan consisting of
two enclosed storage structures. The
first being a total of 10,000 square ft
with the second being 6,000 square ft.
The applicant is seeking relief from the
20 foot setback in the M1 district to
have a setback of 3'6 in in the M1
district located in the Bach Buckston
corridor.
The subject property sits on 4.77 acres
and again is zoned M1. The principal
primary structures were
constructed around 1991 and 92 and the
applicant intends to improve the
property by constructing the additional
structures for storage as noted for the
existing landscaping business. Uh staff
review and analysis. It is this proposal
meets the intent of both the
comprehensive land use plan and the
overall district regulations surrounding
properties are M1 industrial and it is
consistent with supporting the goals and
recommendations of the Box Bach Buckton
Road commercial corridor. Again, if any
new lighting is proposed, it'll need to
be in accordance with article 14 of the
zoning resolution in any detention
proposed for the site containing any
water from any additional proposals on
the property. The action tonight that is
required is in accordance with section
1310 of the zoning resolution that the
board of trustees is to enter into a
motion to approve as submitted. Approve
with modifications or deny this focus
area overlay district applications as
presented. In case number 4-26-
there are five recommended modifications
should the board grant favorable
consideration to the overlay
application. one that the applicant
shall comply with the requirements of
all federal, state, and local agencies.
The future lighting plan shall be with
the requirements of article 14. If there
are any proposals of signage, it shall
be monument style signage. The applicant
shall provide additional privacy if
there is any visual outdoor storage
areas to the main streets. and the
applicant shall be subject to review of
the buildings containing the number of
structures, square footage, location,
and material subject to administrative
review and approval. With that, that
concludes the report for overlay case
4-26-
uh vice chairman.
>> No questions,
>> Mr. Lo.
No questions.
>> Yep. Okay. Gentlemen, I'll entertain a
motion to open public hearings case
overlay case 4-26-
Oscar. So moved.
>> Second,
>> Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lug?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills?
>> Yes.
>> Public hearing is open at 6:58 p.m.
>> All right. We start off with the
developer landowner. You're more than
welcome to speak. I got to tell you, I
have a gut feeling you're not going to
have any problems, but it's uh uh you're
more welcome to come up here and speak.
Now, since this is a separate case, I
got to swear you in for this one as
well.
>> All right.
You swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth. By the truth, self be God.
>> I do. Great. Name it and address for the
record.
>> 1120 Ferris Road. My name's Dave Flour.
Um,
been there since about 91 92.
Mike helped me out a lot when I moved in
because I had no water, no electric. So,
we've been buddies ever since. Uh, when
he did his building and he told me about
the change in the setbacks, I got really
excited because it greatly changes my
ability to make my building bigger. When
you start setting your stuff back from
the fence, it kind of crowds things in
there.
>> Okay.
>> So, that's why I'm here.
>> Yeah, fair enough. What What line of
business are you in?
>> A lot of landscape.
>> Oh, fantastic. Okay. So, no, appreciate
you investing in Union Township and uh
we're just happy to help. Uh sorry it's
a little bit of a process, but uh but
no, appreciate you invest in our
township. Uh Mr. Becker.
>> No, I'm good.
>> Mr. Log, I'm good. Thank you. Yeah,
appreciate it. Thank you. You're all
good. Appreciate you, sir. All good. And
then uh uh is there anyone else that's a
proponent of this case? Okay, seeing
none opponent.
All right, let's go and close it. Uh
gentlemen, entertain a motion to close
public hearing overlay case 4-26- Oscar.
>> So move second.
>> Mr. Campbell, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Log,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Jules,
>> yes.
>> Public portion of this closed at 7 p.m.
>> All right. Uh any discussion, gentlemen.
See none. Okay. Uh, I will gentlemen I
will entertain a motion for the approval
with modifications as recommended for
Union Township overlay case 4-26-
Oscar.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Uh, Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lou.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. D.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> Congratulations, Dave. The uh Okay. So,
what we'll do before we get to uh both
zoning cases, uh they're both kind of
similar kind of. uh at 8 o'clock I'm
going to have a hard cut off so we can
take a at that point a two-hour break
which is in one hour uh and then I will
break for five minutes you know whatever
five seven minutes uh also I want to say
this for those that are against the case
uh in the event hypothetically it is
approved I would like for when you you
don't have to but I would like for you
to speak on maybe something you would
like this is now your opportunity
assuming it's approved it might not be
approved but if it is approved this is
your chance to negotiate
For example, in the past, what I've done
is I've had the developer over here and
I've had residents say, you know, I want
a a landscaping buffer. I would like a
white uh vinyl fence, 6 foot high vinyl
fence so I don't have to see these
houses or I don't have to see whatever.
I would like this or that and I'm going
to tell a developer, hey, I'm going to
put this in here if you want me to prove
it, you know, kind of thing. This is our
chance to negotiate where both sides
win, both sides lose a little bit and
it's compromise. Or you don't have to at
all. That's up to you. So when you
speak, that's your opportunity to say,
"Hey, if it is approved, I would like to
see this, this, and this." Okay. Uh so
um with that being said, and by the way,
um the uh um the floor is yours. You're allowed to talk, you know, as
long as you want. Just just know even if
we're in the middle of this case, in one
hour, I'm going to call a timeout, five
minute break, and then we'll come back.
So Okay. Just everyone knows. Um okay.
Uh gentlemen, oh no, let's not open it
yet. Uh Mr. Flowy, sir. Uh, zoning case
3-26-Zenzula.
Go ahead and introduce that, sir.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dells. This is a request.
The name is the Oaks at Ridge Point
subdivision. The applicant is Chris
Hener at 1062 Kluff Pike. The action
requested is for a total of three
parcels totaling 23.63 63 acres to be
reszoned from R1 single family to an R4
single family variable residential
district in order to allow for a
proposed concept plan subdivision
developing development consisting of 58
lots for single family dwelling units
landscaping elements entry monument sign
and open spaces. Some land use and
zoning characteristics in the general
vicinity is residential uses with the
exception of instit institutional uses
such as Club Pike Baptist Church in the
West Claremont High School to the south.
In relation to the 2030 comprehensive
land use plan indicates that the
proposal is not located within any
designated corridor. However, the use
itself would be supportive to single
family residential character in this
area of the township. A single family
residential development goals stated
within the plan calls for a single
family dwelling densities up to four
units per acre, which this proposal
achieves with a gross density of 2.5
2.45
units an acre. Moving on to some of the
background information. This area has
been in the R1 single family zoning
district since the institution of
zoning. Since then, the properties have
been used for agricultural and/or
residential uses
according to the auditor site. Some
staff review and analysis. Wanted to
note that the staff comments have been
revised since the zoning commission
recommendation from the June 24th
meeting with relation due to the road
layout. The new lot configuration shows
seven homes being ended in a culde-sac
off of Ridge Point Drive and an
additional 51 homes being accessed off
of Kluff Pike to be ended in a
culde-sac. This differs from the
previous plan which included a through
street through Ridge Point and there was
talk back and forth with the zoning
commission on whether or not to
have it a through street have a lock
knock box for emergency services. And as
we went through the process with the
developer, uh, they came up and we came
up with this idea of doing the culde-sac
to complete the street in the
subdivision back there off of Ridge
Point with seven homes in a culde-sac
and then the 51 additional off of Ridge
Point. Some additional information
with this application is the proposed
street and trees are throughout the
subdivision with additional plantings
being provided.
Uh some of the lots have changed with
the new proposal since the total amount
of lots have gone from 60 to 58. Some
street lighting has been proposed. The
lighting shall be consistent with
article 14. An entry monument sign is
proposed. consideration should be taken
for the site distance clearance onto
Clark Pike.
Lastly, going back to the zoning
commission, they recommended five
modifications.
The fifth modification was the sample
proposed home facades. The applicant, we
have a proposal from them to pull up
with the proposed homes. So lastly, the
action required tonight is in accordance
with section 650 through 659 of the
zoning resolution that the board of
trustees is to enter into a motion to
approve as recommended by the zoning
commission. Approve with additional
modifications or deny this zoning map
amendment in accompanying concept plan
as permitted in Union Township zoning
case 3-26-Z.
Staff has made additional
recommendations due to the new road
layout and lot configuration that per
the Horizon 2030 plan to add a
pedestrian connectivity between the
established and existing Ridge Point
subdivision drive to the new
development. And lastly, efforts to
maintain the same pre previous
preservation areas which appear to have
changed slightly to have them labeled as
pre preserved and to pay attention to
the screening to the existing
residential areas from the proposed
development. With that, that concludes
the report for case number 3-26-Z.
» Thank you, Mr. Flouty. Uh, vice
chairman, any questions?
>> Yeah, I do have one.
So, Mr. Flowouty.
>> Hypothetically,
>> if we were to approve
changing the zoning from an R1 to an R4
>> and the developer, for whatever reason,
it could be any number of reasons,
>> may choose not to build anything at this
time. Mhm.
>> could several years from now, new board,
maybe a new developer, maybe not, choose
to build apartment buildings on this
property.
>> Yes. I That would be a hypothetical that
could potentially
>> not R4. Not not R4. It's got to be R3.
>> PD is apartment.
>> Oh, yeah. So,
>> what does R4 allow then?
>> Sorry.
>> Single
>> condos. So if you're you're asking if
you approve this to an R4,
>> they come back. Yeah, sorry I
misunderstood the question. So this
development what the R4 variable
structure
>> does is it creates a formal plan. So
what you are approving is the concept
plan in front of you. If there are to be
any changes to that, you have to come
forward, the applicant will have to come
forward with a new set of plans and have
a new set of approvals to do any changes
from this. That would be adding a lot,
changing from single family to attached
single family. That that would trigger
coming back to this board. If they were
to approve, if you were to approve the
R4 tonight, the development has to be
per this plan in front of you tonight.
Okay. So if we
so so if we approve this tonight and
then you know the for whatever reason
they can't or choose not not to go
forward five years from now
>> they they decide they want to come up
with a new plan. Does it revert to R1
between now and then?
>> It it would it would not but a new R4
plan would have to go before the board.
>> Okay. And then so how different could an
R4 plan be if it's not this one that's
before us?
The hypotheticals can can range, you
know, depending on what what would bring
in. But if they would go from this plan
to
attached, if they would go above the 58
number, you know, it again it's variable
structure. So the possibility to change
is you know,
>> basically what I'm if they change from
this plan, it's got to come back to the
board.
>> Correct. Yes.
>> Yes. It could be a future board is my
several years from now is my point.
That's all I have.
>> Yeah.
Mr. L, any questions?
>> Uh, just a [clears throat] little bit is
uh
Mr. Becker, is the concern about
action tonight and then developer not
being able to to move forward or
>> I guess I'm just confused about the
concern of the I want to make sure hear
his concern.
>> We're not debating this right now. We're
asking Mr. Fl.
>> Okay. I just trying to understand his
question. No, I don't have a question
for Mr. Flatty.
>> U Mr. Flatty. So on basically let's look at this property as an
overhead there
>> and uh so uh
I'm going to say up because it's not
north, it would be south. But so so uh
up from the property or I should say to
the left, let's do the left. Left of the
property of the of the square. What is
the average
um lot size? Um right right there on the
left on the left through here left
>> outside the property the existing
properties
>> these these through here.
>> Well so they range
>> in the community to the left. So just
the ballpark the
>> ballpark. So they range you know along Kluff here we do have larger lots
those were cut out previously you know
as Kluff developed through and then all
along so the existing community back
behind the existing subdivision
especially you see where ridge point
that is R2. So, the existing lots within
the R2, there's a minimum of 20,000
>> 10,000 square feet. So, you're roughly
>> a little bit below a quarter of an acre,
but you might as well just say a quarter
of an acre.
>> So, those lot sizes uh on the bottom
roughly are are quarter of an acre
ballpark.
>> The ones where my cursor is at here,
they're around a quarter of an acre.
>> Okay. Ballpark, give or take a little
bit.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. And then uh what about to the
left?
>> These they vary. They're going to be a
little bit larger as they're cut out.
>> I would say half an acre to quarter of
an acre.
>> Okay.
>> One acre.
>> All right.
Okay.
Uh that's all the questions I got for
you. Thank you. Oh, do do you have any
pictures of what these houses are going
to look like?
>> Yeah, let me pull up their presentation
here.
>> And by by the way, I might be stealing
their thunder. if they want to show
theirs.
>> We got
Okay. If this Are they going to be going
through their PowerPoint? Is that their
plan?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Never mind. I don't want to steal
their thumb. I'll let them do that. But
I I every single time we have a building
though, I want to see a picture of what it potentially is going to look
like. Uh I don't care if it's a shed or
if it's a massive complex. So, okay.
>> Uh fair enough. Okay. Um any more
questions for Mr. Flowy? Good. Let's
open this case. Uh, gentlemen, I'll
entertain a motion to open Union
Township zoning case 3-26-Z in Zulu.
>> So move second.
>> Any further discussion? Mr. Campbell,
roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lug.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Public hearing is open at 7:12 p.m.
>> All right. Good. Good. Uh, same thing.
Like to start off with the developer.
They're here and uh or so their
spokesperson. And uh
and then uh
>> we'll have you come through. Perfect.
And then you saw what I had to do. So,
let me can I swear you in?
>> Yes.
>> All right. Raise your hand. Do you swear
to tell the truth? The whole truth about
the truth. Help you God.
>> I do.
>> Great. Please uh state your name and
address for the record.
>> My name is Doug Smith. I'm with Abraine
Associates, the civil side engineer for
the project. The address is 811 Chevy
Road 200 [snorts] Cincinnati, Ohio
45247.
>> And then uh
>> Good evening, gentlemen. Uh, also here
with me tonight is uh
Brian Henny and Paul Mezer with Arbor
Homes will be the builder uh in this
proposed development. And then also in
the back row next throwback is Ed Fuia
with Beaver Creek Site Management.
They're the developers for the project.
So I'll be here to answer any questions
you might have. But um I'd like to first
off and state that um we're excited for
this development and we think it'd be a nice addition to the township, provide
nice housing. Uh you know, the R4 uh
provides an advantage to allow us to
preserve some of the natural features.
uh the the the existing pond that's on
the site as well as the uh the stream
that's to the I want to say
[clears throat] to the south I guess is
uh and the woodlands along it will be
preserved in open space. We have three
open space areas meeting the 20%
requirement. Um you know we we we're
excited about it. It's it's a similar
lot, similar product as as the adjacent
residence as well as the Magnolia Trace
development that uh is just down the
street off Shaylor. This will provide
the same type of housing which we think
is all very successful and it's done
well in the township. Um I can say that
during the um zoning commission meeting
there was concern about access. We had a
through street uh Craig I don't know if
you could pull up the old plan. Yeah.
Let's see.
So, this is the plan we presented at the
zoning commission that had a through
street from Pluff Pike to Ridge Point
Drive. uh the residents in in the on
Ridge Point Drive had a lot of concerns
about the through traffic and and the
cut through at that time we proposed to
gay some you know ballards or some
things of that nature. Um so
[clears throat] basically uh Mr. Wright
Mr. cloudy. Our team met with the county
engineer. We discussed our options and
based on the public input and and and
what we felt was going to be best for
this development, they developer reduced
the lots by two lots. We went from 60 to
58 units. Um and then we uh terminated
Ridgeoint Drive in a culde-sac to to
eliminate that through traffic that uh
was you know acceptable through the
county engineer and uh you know that's uh how we kind of
ended up the plan we have today. We do
have water sewer availability. There's
water and sewer available to serve the
development. Um I can have Mr. Penning
or Mr. Mezers talk about the product if
you like. if you'd like to know more
about the housing product.
>> Oh, one sec. Uh, Mr. Wester, any
questions?
>> Uh, no, but I do want to say that my
prior question, you know, about
potential apartments and what the
develop could do. It had nothing to do
with any of you in this room. It was
really just a hypothetical in my own
mind about zoning in general. So, no
offense was intended. The the only
comment I might add to that is is
[clears throat] uh and Craig, correct me
if I'm wrong, that u the R4 it's a
variable type housing, but it's it's
single family type housing. It's it's
not multif family or you know the R4 is
a single type single family residential
type housing. It's just whether it's
single family or attached is my
understanding.
>> The multif family would have to be in
the PD district.
>> Yeah.
So, so no matter what it would be a
single single family residential
product.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't have any questions.
>> Yeah. One sec, Mr. Luke.
>> No,
>> thank you for presentation on it.
>> Uh, I'm going to ask a few questions,
but I don't know if it's going to be
necessarily for you or or Arbor the
builders um
or it might even be for uh the Fuja
family. But uh question, first question
is if you can't answer it, that's okay.
I'll go through and you can answer with
first question. How long was the
property on the market until you you all
bought it? Now, that's a probably a Fuja
question, but uh Okay, so the um
>> what's the average ballpark price of
these homes? Ballpark.
>> That would be an Arbor home,
>> right? Roger that. All right. Um are you
all willing to
add any to work with the residents again
we approve this? If we don't, then this
is null and void. But are you willing to
work with the residents if they come up
and say, "Hey, we would like a white
vinyl 6ft fence to put up there so I
don't have to see any new homes." Are
you willing to put up maybe some rolling
hills that or whatever? Are you willing
to work with the residents on that to
create buffers?
>> I can't speak on behalf of that on
behalf of Mr. Fuier. I know that uh yes,
we'd be willing to work with the
residents. We've already been in
discussion with some of them.
>> All right, fair enough. And then uh what
about traffic count? Did did you all do
a traffic count study?
>> We did. We did a traffic count study.
We've prepared a traffic impact study
and we presented that to the county
engineer and it's currently in in review
and being processed.
>> Do do you have any more information on
it?
>> Yeah, it uh it it basically says that no
turn lanes are warranted on Club Pike.
No improvements are required to Club
Pike and the development is, you know,
the the surrounding roadways are
adequate to serve the proposed
development with no improvements.
>> Okay. Fair enough. Okay. Uh, Mr. Smith,
that's all I got. Appreciate it. Thank
you. Thank you.
>> And then uh uh and then any other Yeah.
You part of the development team? Yeah.
Come on up, please.
>> I'll swear you in.
>> All right. Please swear your hand. Do
you swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth? I the truth. Help you God.
>> I do.
>> State your name and address for the
record.
>> Uh Edwin Fujia. Address is 7861 East
Keer Road, Cincinnati, Ohio 45249.
Please go ahead. um to address the
couple questions you had for us. Um as
far as how long the property's on the
market, I don't know. We typically get
things before they hit the market. Um
>> and then as far as buffering goes, we
are happy to help. Um whether it's
landscaping or a you know artificial
buffer like a fence or something like
that in place where it's needed, we're
always open to that. We want to be good
neighbors.
>> Fair enough. Uh but uh before we I
always allow my vice chair to go first.
Vice Chairman, do you have any
questions?
>> Mr. Lo, the uh uh ballpark. Uh now I
know this is probably an Arbor question
because y'all are building, but uh uh do
we know the average price of the homes
yet? Ballpark?
>> I'll let Arbor.
>> Okay, one more. Um
I'm sure you you probably footed the
bill for the traffic count. Can can you
give me any more insight on that? cuz
I'll tell you I'll tell you what you're
going to hear tonight and it's probably
no surprise to you is uh during rush
hour times I drive Kluff every single
day so I can personally say uh there's
times where Kluff's fine. Cluff's fine.
It's not a problem. Then there's times
where Club Pike is a disaster and you
avoid at all cost. However,
whether you all like it or not, that's
actually a county road is not. We don't
own that road. That's a county road
which they really need to uh expand it
probably make it four ways. But uh
anyways, regardless, their concern is
going to be uh the traffic count and and folks trying to turn left on Kloff
at 7 8:00 in the morning. Uh I can
guarantee every single person is
probably going to come up here and say
that. So any thoughts or suggestions on
that?
>> So I don't know the exact counts off
hand. Um however, what I do know about
the study is we used a 10-year time
period for the study at that with the
traffic counts they generated. The way
the traffic study works and you all may
know this. So they submit our engineer
who's doing the traffic study submits a
memorandum of understanding to the
county.
>> Yeah.
>> The county agrees this is what we're
studying. Uh after that there's a volume
submitt and we our engineer submits you
know says these are the volumes that
we're going to use. The county says okay
we agree with those volumes. They can
either increase the volumes decrease the
volumes. um with Claremont County and
our experience that they typically like
to increase the volumes um as a
conservative matter.
>> Um so we got approved on the volumes. We
did the traffic study. There was no
using the 10-year period. There was no
um
>> traffic there was obviously there's
impact but there was no improvements
deemed necessary. Uh currently they are
asking us to stretch that out instead of
10 years to 20 years. This was just as
of I think a couple days ago.
>> Um so that's what we're working on right
now. See
>> all it's all I can ask for is you get
you got the factual data. If they say
it's it's good then it's and that's all we got. So um I think that's
all I got. Appreciate you. Thank you.
Appreciate it, sir. Thank you. Yeah. And
I assume the builders. Yeah.
>> All right. Raise your right hand and do
you swear to tell truth? The whole
truth. I want the truth. Hope you got
it.
>> I do. Brian. Yeah. Brian Hending. 9050
Center Point Drive. got paper copies if
you guys want any.
>> Um but yeah, uh so average price is
going to be 360,000
to 550,000.
Um these homes are very customizable by
the kind of home buyer. So it really
depends on what they select ultimately.
One thing on traffic is this will be a
kind of 55 plus targeted community. All homes are ranch homes. So there
might just be a little less traffic
coming out of this neighborhood than
versus a you know a typical suburb
suburban neighborhood with families you
know taking kids to soccer practice and
all that. Um we've got five floor plans.
Each floor plan has different uh five
different elevations. Um they can pick a
variety of colors. We have a anti-
monotony policy where essentially no uh
house next door or across the street is
allowed to have the same elevation or
floor or color scheme. Um so essentially
that just kind of keeps kind of a a
design rhythm that um you know takes
away the monotony essentially. So yeah
that's about it. I don't know if you
guys have any questions for us. Happy to
go through kind of our company history
or anything else you guys
>> want to say Mr. Mr. back or anything?
>> No.
>> Mr. Luke,
>> I like that destination line. It's
interesting.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's nice. A lot of lot
of communities are looking for that 55
plus housing type thing.
>> Okay. So, so just recap the uh so your target market to sell these homes
is 55 plus age range.
>> Yep.
>> Uh price range is ballpark 360 to
550,000.
>> Y
>> and they're all ranch. So, uh,
basements, no basements.
>> Uh, so the customer can select a
basement, but
>> Okay. Well, basically, they're not going
to be two stories. It sounds like
they're all right.
>> No, they could be. So, essentially, uh,
a customer can either select, uh, to
have a basement or a second story. It
won't like these are the elevations of
the home. The second story is
essentially almost like half story.
>> Got it.
>> Um, so yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. And then uh assuming
hypothetically if it is approved, when
are you all planning on breaking ground?
>> Uh that would be the developer, but uh
we would say as soon as possible. I
would I would guess spring.
» Okay.
>> We we are constantly pushing these guys
to
>> That's okay. That's okay. All right. All
right. That's uh I think that's all I
got. Okay. And then uh and then hey I
would uh
>> once the folks come up and speak I would
uh be prepared to just answer any
questions they or concerns they might
have for whoever is best suited for that
one. So okay thank you. Thank you sir.
>> Um okay. And is there anyone else that
is a proponent of this case that is for
this case that would like to talk?
>> Okay. Anyone that's an opponent? Yeah.
Come on up. So and by the way I I don't need cards for this one. Uh so
you're okay. That's just for public
comment. So uh but go on. Come on up.
Dave, I'll swear you in.
>> Okay.
>> All right, sir. Do you swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth? But the truth,
shall be God.
>> So, help me to God. I do.
>> Name name and address for the record,
sir.
>> David E. Muse. Uh, 1071 Cluff Pike.
Sounds like I need to get in the golf
cart business because if it's 55 and
older, that's what's going to be driving
in that community over there. You know
what I mean? I got to start selling golf
carts.
>> I think so.
>> Okay. Thank you to the board of trustees
for having this opportunity for the
community to speak before you. Cast your
votes on the zoning change from R1 to R4
for the subdivision to be known as the
Oaks at Ridge Point. My name is David E.
Muse and I am with the Union
[clears throat] Township Republican
Central Committee. I represent voting
precinct T. Yes, it's true. Only
Republicans voted me in this position in
our last primary. I told John Becker,
who asked me to join and run for
election, that I would listen and try
and help with concerns that all voters
in precinct had, no matter what
political party they did or not belong
to. And now here is my first
representation for Union Township Voting
Precinct T. I or no one wants to stand
in a land owner's way of selling their
land and providing for their family. But
what we do ask is for them to think
about the neighbors
they had while growing up and the person
that gave you the land and how they
loved Kluff Pike. They called home for
many years.
I first off want to speak about Kluff
Pike between Shaylor Road and McMahon
Road. It is one of the busiest and
dangerous stretches of road in Union
Township. This section is at its peak
congestion during school bus pickup in
the morning and workers going to work at
it starts all over again when all
schools let out and workers are going
home. This will make it impossible
for those wanting to leave from Oaks at
Ridge Point subdivision.
That traffic will not let them out. We
on Pike know because we cannot get out
of our own driveways.
I ask our police chief
here today. You remember trying to get
in and out of the old Glenn Estie High
School in the morning and when school
let out. A police officer was needed to
direct traffic and that is what will be
needed to help those at the Oaks at
Ridge Point get out of their
subdivision. A police officer five days
a week, two times a day. That may be
what that part of club might need. Might
be good.
But with how the police and Union
Townships budget is stretched as it is,
we must come up with another answer.
The only solution for the entrance to
the oaks at Ridge Point subdivision on
cloth pipe could only be used as an
enter only heading to Shaylor Road and
when leaving the subdivision only
turning right on Clough Pike heading
toward Shaylor Road. The real answer is
to put an entrance
to the subdivision on Shaylor Road.
The developer had concerns about the
creek at the zoning meeting. Upon
observation
and Apple Maps, there is enough land to
make the needed entrance for the
subdivision. An estimated 500 ft before
the creek. More than enough needed. This
is the best time to tell the developer
that they must put the main entrance to
the Oaks at Ridge Point subdivision
there because they will have to pay for
it now and Union Township will not have
to pay for the mistake later.
Just think
58 homes, mom and dad have cars.
One car for the children. That's
180 cars trying to get out on pipe in
the morning going to work and school.
The traffic will not let them out
because they've got to be someplace as
well.
So that's
180 cars backed up in the new
subdivision that was not planned well.
The developer wants to change R1 to R4.
The Woodmont subdivision that will be
behind it, including Ridge Point Drive,
is R2.
Why not change R1 to R2 and not R4?
Mr. Trustees, before we leave here
today,
I would like to uh
end just a few concerns of those about
Bluff Pike. They would like to see, this
is my constituents that have gotten with
me, and they would like to see a right
turn on the red light as a three-way
light
uh at McMahon and CL. They would like to
see no turn on red. That would give the
subdivision a chance to get out
and uh that would cut down on the road
rage.
There's quite a bit of road rage there.
Uh the cars when they try to get out of
their subdivision there, cars are upset
and they ride their bumper and they toot
all the way down.
Another thing would be great is to
change the speed limit from 40 miles
hour to 25 or 30 miles per hour in that
stretch from light to light. I hope I've
presented all of my constituents
concerns of voting prect well. We want
to work with the trustees and the
developer on this project. We feel that
the matters that we have put before you
are not out of this world and can be
done where all can be happy. President
Ronald Reagan was once asked about his
deal making
and how he went about it. He stated,
"Both sides must come away feeling they
came away with something.
If only one gets everything, then the
next time you sit down across the table
with that person, they will remember."
And uh, Mr. Trustees, before you cast
your vote on changing the zoning from R1
to R4, I'd like to speak for 30 seconds
before you cast that vote.
>> Uh, that's not really how it works
though, Mr. So this mean meaning this is
your time to talk right now. I call up
other people. Uh so it all comes down to
safety for our community and for our new
neighbors that will arrive when the oaks
at Ridge Point subdivision is completed.
That's all we want from our trustees and
the developer. If both parties will not
work with us to achieve these goals,
which I know our trustees are wanting to
work with us, and the trustees okay to
the zoning change from R1 to R4,
then we
do
have uh uh then we must do as the law
permits. that we have been working on
as a group in precinct T is called a
zoning referendum.
Once we have our needed signatures on a
petition, the matter of keeping the
properties at R1 or R4 will be voted on
the 20 26 November election and be voted
on by the people.
So
that
will hold up your ground baking
development
not happen.
>> Thank you. Mr. Muse,
Mr. Flouty, can you throw up a a good
overview picture so I can see the uh
houses, you know, on on either side and
then also the roads it's on.
>> Yeah. You want a little wider one? I I
just have a feeling we're going to be
referencing uh the map quite a bit.
>> You you had one in your presentation
that was good.
» Um
» yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that one's fine. Can you maybe just Yeah, that's fine.
That's fine. Okay, perfect.
Okay. Uh All right.
Uh, is there anyone else that'd like to
talk on this project? Yes, sir. I see
you in the back. Come on up, sir.
All right.
>> No problem. Yeah, you're okay. And then
just raise your right hand. And sir, do
you swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and they both the truth? So hopey
God.
>> I do.
>> Great. And then just state your name and
address for the record.
>> My name is Scott Shean. My address is
1069 Ridge Point Drive in Betavia.
>> Go ahead.
>> Yeah.
>> Good evening, gentlemen. Lisa,
>> um,
starting off, I hate I hate to just be
an opponent for everything. I I was
against the uh the new subdivision going
through to Ridge Point. So, accolades
for the the solution of of having a
culde-sac. I think that solves uh at
least one of my concerns. So that that's
on a positive note. Thank you. Um
concerns that I have uh are several. Um
if we can we is there another
>> Let me shoot this up to you guys and you
can pass. Can I bring approach
>> this one? This one
>> the table.
>> Yeah. Cool.
That's okay. Craig, give me a give me a
better picture than that.
>> The the one Yeah, was fine.
>> I just want to be able to reference it.
>> That's perfect. Yeah. Okay.
>> All right. The first the first thing I I
would want to talk about is the
um
in the culde-sac having the seven seven
times. Um, couple things come to mind
here. Uh, the first one is and and my my
house is uh next to lot 52. I don't know
whether it's that's my house right
there. And lot 52 is right here. Lot 52
is uh one of the smaller lots. It's got
a 58 foot frontage. uh according to the
uh design requirements, you have to have
five feet on each side of the of the
home, which means it's a 48
uh it's 48 ft wide maximum. Um and and
uh if you look at the uh geology and the
topography of the of the land, the the
water from this area here flows down
this way toward where you have a a
retention pond slammed and um it the
creek starts probably just to the back
of my house uh on on the on the edge of
the property. Uh, in fact, I would say a
little bit on on my property and and
maybe 10 or 15 feet into lot 52. And it
comes down as kind of a wedge that uh
culminates uh maybe 40 feet behind uh my
house in a in the beginning of a creek.
And my concern is is if you look at the
topography of the land, it it all slopes
on 52 from the CF site
uh down toward my property. And I don't
know how you would ever build uh a
foundation to a house uh without pushing
the dirt around in in a manner that
would move the water towards my house
and my property. So that is that is a a
major concern
uh of a of water issue. You can't walk
through that area without waiters. Even when it's uh even when it's dry out
uh as you get down it uh further down
from my house, you do need
>> heavy galashes to walk through that
area. Um, the other concern I have is
you do have seven homes in that area in that uh culde-sac. We have covenants
that we had to sign uh uh in order to
get title to the to our property.
Everyone on Ridge Point, whether they
live up to them or not, had to had to
sign uh that uh the covenants as as part
of the neighborhood
>> for the HOA,
>> please.
>> For for the HOA, is there an HOA in your
neighborhood?
>> There there there is no formal HOA.
>> So that and that whole thing needs to be
rationalized and and normalized because
you're going to be adding seven houses
into an area that has defined covenants
that that uh someone could legally take
uh a neighbor to task on it because they
signed off on it. And and then and then
the the uh
>> my neighborhood's like that. There there
are things such as what even what fences
can be used in that HOA in I'm sorry in
the covenants and and normalizing those
is is really important otherwise it's
going to be real messy going down the
road. Um,
the
last item is and and you can see it
better on the thing that I passed out
there is my driveway is is on the side
right toward uh lot 52.
I for the life of me I don't know how
you would build that culde-sac or or
anything without blocking my blocking me
and and I'd like to understand how you
would manage that because uh um you know
I I can move my car down a little bit uh
but I'm I'm not 40 years old. It could
be that I need a life squad. the people
next to us uh uh have had the life squad
at their house several times and and uh
we we just can't block off that end of
the street while things are being built.
There could be and let me let me propose
a suggestion, you know, instead of
everything just being uh what you can't
do. Um the culde-sac could be designed
and pro the preliminary design and built
coming in off of Kluff. Um lay it all
out and then when you finally get it all
laid out uh then you know before you put
the the the curb and the the final
street in that's when you switch it back
to Ridge Point and and and manage it uh
manage it properly. I think I think
that's a a way to do that with
minimizing the the the pain and agony to the three or four houses down at the
end of the street. So, that's that's
kind of uh where I'm at. My concern is the water
uh how you would manage that water with
a 48 foot frontage on on a house with
five feet on either side in the in the
midst of of uh the beginning of a a
creek.
um the covenants and uh my driveway.
That's that's it. Anyone have any
questions?
>> Mr. Sheman. She right.
>> She
sir vice chairman. Any questions?
>> No.
>> Mr. Lug?
>> Uh not currently.
>> She miss Sheman. By the way, by the way,
>> please. [clears throat]
>> I I [snorts] want to commend you because
not I don't want to say all the time.
That's a blanket statement. But [snorts]
more often than not, typically residents
will come up no no no no. Right. And and
you have come up here with a positive
attitude with uh other concessions and also um you know solutions. And so I
wrote everything you just said down. And
so I just wanted to say appreciate that.
Um because I am I'm I'm a pro liberty
kind of guy. I mean, if it's your land,
do whatever you want. You want to sell
it, sell it. You want to develop it, As long as it meets, you
know, the the township rules. And so, uh
I just appreciate you you doing that. By
the way, um can can I can I keep this
for the time being, please?
>> Sure. I've got it on my computer.
>> And then developers, whoever's going to
talk, y'all need to plan because he's
100% right. I'm looking at this and I'm
looking also at lot number 58 across the
street from you, which would be category
to your left. Um, I I need to hear a
plan and what you plan on doing because
I will not have this man be
inconvenienced whatsoever. Um, I need to
make sure that's crystal clear and
addressed and for the the lot across the
street from him. Um, and and and uh the
reason why you do R4 is so you can not
have every lot size the same size
because that makes things difficult. So
R4 is actually a good thing when it's
used properly. And I think these
builders are trying to do it properly.
However,
that is a small lot size and I do not
want dirt or water or you to be or your
driveway to be blocked at all. Period.
So, I have your back on that 100%. I
know these two guys will as well. So,
I'm just speaking on their behalf right
now. For what it's worth, thank you for
pointing that out. So, I appreciate that
and um and that'll give these guys some
times to prep for a response to that
because we're not going to allow that.
I'm not gonna allow that. So, for what
it's worth, thank you for your time. So,
thank you, Mr. Appreciate it very much.
Thank you.
>> The uh Okay. Uh, anyone else that is a
uh uh what's the word? Not proponent.
Uh, against this against this opponent.
Geez, what is wrong with me? The
opponent of this case, please.
>> All right. All right. Will you please
raise your right hand? Do you swear to
tell truth, the whole truth, nothing but
the truth. So, bey God.
>> Great. Uh, name and address for the
record, miss.
>> My name is Susan Dudak, and I live at
1087 Gwood Drive. C,
>> can you say your name one more time?
>> Susan Dudak.
>> Dudak. Okay. Susan. Okay. So, a lot of
us here were at the uh previous zoning
um meeting where this was all discussed
and oftent times the question came up,
what is the difference between R1 and
R4? It's it's it's hard for most
homeowners to understand that and most
don't. Um and we come to those meetings
so we can get facts. That's what we
count on you guys for. So, I can tell
you that the um description of R1 versus
R4 that was given by the zoning
commission was extremely misleading and
highly biased. Okay? And let me give you
an example of what they said. In R1,
typically the houses would be on cookie
cutter halfacre lots. Now, every time
they spoke about R1, they use the word
cookie cutter. But with R4, we are
allowed to vary the size and shape of
these lots. Some can be smaller, some
can be larger, there can be fluctuation,
there can be diversification rather than
just this cutout subdivision that we
used to see all the time. Um, in an R1
traditional neighborhood, the lots are
cookie cutter and variable means the
lots can fluctuate in size. Now, our one
neighborhood, example, Shante Clear
Woods, Crystal Creek, drive into one of
those neighborhoods, do you see cookie
cutter? Do you see unvaried lot sizes?
It has nothing to do with that. Um, you
want to see cookie cutter, drive into an
R4 neighborhood, drive into Weatherbe
Farms, drive into um Magnolia Trace,
nice houses, but boom boom boom lots.
So, the um zoning commission said they said specifically, we are trying to
encourage our force.
They kept referring to the Horizon 2 TW
uh 2030 as backing up this um ability to
build our force. And let me read you
from that report because I'm sure that
most people don't even know it exists,
let alone have read it. So there is a
section in there called land use
recommendations residential development.
And the report specifically says, "This
comprehensive land use planning document
shall continue to recommend single
family large lot residential development
as the guiding principle for new family
development throughout the majority of
Union Township. Now, it goes on to talk
about little pockets where there might
be the possibility that higher densers
might be appropriate, but this is not
one of those pockets. And even in the
documentation that I received here today
um where the zoning commission is saying
further adjacent land uses use use
characteristics nearly mirror the
proposed development plan. Well
take a look at the township zoning map.
What do you see? You see yellow and
yellow outside of the development for
businesses R1 and R2. There are very few R4s here. I mean it's so that's
not true. Uh their description of our
winner, they're clearly biased. So who
here is to stand up for us? Because
that's not what the community wants. Um
so that's my first comment. Okay. My
second thing, I'm a real estate agent.
So when I heard when I hear about a new
builder that I've never heard of before,
I'm I'm going to do my homework. So, at
the last zoning meeting, they said that
the price range for this neighborhood
was going to be in the $600,000 plus
price range. I see they've ded that
down. So, did anybody ask, does Arbor
Homes build $600,000 houses, let alone
$600,000 neighborhoods? So, I started
with AI, Google, you know, because
that's where you start, right? I said,
"What kind of homes does Arbor Homes
build?" And it came back. Arbor Homes
builds affordable stickuilt single
family ranch and two-story houses
featuring open concept layouts tailored
for firsttime buyers and growing
families. Their properties range from
budget friendly starter options to
larger plans with semicustom structural
choices. I'm like, okay, that doesn't
sound real. So, I I got more specific. I
said, does Arbor Homes build $600,000
plus houses? And the answer came back,
no. Arbor Homes does not build houses
priced above 600,000. Their business
model focuses exclusively on affordable
entrylevel and mid-range production
houses, maxing out well below that
threshold.
Talks about their target demographics.
Arbor Homes intentionally develops an
outer suburban rings where land costs
are lower, utilizing tax incentives to
specifically keep homes attainable for
firsttime or moving up buyers.
So now I'm getting a little concerned.
So like let's go to their website,
right? What what does their website say?
So, if you go to their website and you
look at their mission statement on their
website, this is their mission statement
to increase home ownership for those
that didn't think they could afford it.
Now, I'm getting kind of worried about
this subdivision. So, I thought, okay,
let's let's let's take a look at where
they are in Ohio and what have they what
have they done or they built? So, they
are building in about 20 neighborhoods
uh in Ohio so far. And it really is
true. They're in very outer suburban
rings. They're in places like Washington
Courthouse,
uh, Plain City, Lethopoulos, Belf
Fontaine, Vandelia, Tip City, Peekqua,
New Carile. Okay. Um, and then I looked
at, and this is all information from
their website. I looked at what are the
starting prices in these neighborhoods.
Here they are. 250, 370, 240, 230, 260,
320, 240, 230, 240, 280, 270, 350, 270,
330, 280, 300, 270.
Now, in none of these neighborhoods are
you going to be able to build a $600,000
house because you're not going to you're
not going to start at 300 and put
$300,000 into upgrades. I mean, that just doesn't happen. So I said,
"Okay, well, you know, they're
headquartered in Indianapolis. So let me
look at what they're building in
Indianapolis." So they have 31 home
sites in Indianapolis and only two of
them start above 300,000. One at 300,000
and one at 350. They have nine home
sites in Louisville. None of those home
sites start above 300,000.
So
>> Okay. Can I ask you a question without
interrupting you?
>> Yeah.
I don't if you ever shop for a new home
like a to build from scratch. So if you
ever This goes back to a uh Mr. Flouty
issue because you know all those garbage
signs that those home builders put up at
all the corners of busy intersections
and you see the illegal signs that are
removed in his report. A lot of those
are like those home builders, right?
Which we hate. We all hate. Uh but it'll
say homes starting at 300,000. Well,
that's literally like a a bare bones
home. But once you add the countertops,
the special floors, the special, you
know, finished basement or whatever,
then the price ticks up to four, five,
600,000. So Mike, I'm not I'm just
asking you that question. Is is is it
say starting at bu building or are these
homes currently built and they've been
on the market and I'm just curious for
that because you know, is it the starter
package?
>> Well, I looked into these neighborhoods
and the homes were priced around that.
Now, even if you get into a $300,000
neighborhood, there's no way you're
going to put $300,000 in upgrades into
that house. True. It just doesn't
happen. And one of the ways that
builders keep their prices low is they
use standardized flow plans. They have
volume discounts that they get from
their contractors and their providers so
that their quality is pretty much all
the same. That's how they make their
dollar here. So, it's extremely
far-fetched for me to think that this is
going to be a $500,000 neighborhood. And
then on top of that, they want tiny
little lots that are not um like
anything else that's around it. I've got
a real concern now. Is this the kind of
neighborhood that's going to add value
to this area? And and and how do you
guarantee that?
Is is is that really your question to
us?
>> Yeah.
>> To to require the board to
require a higher value
>> well higher dollar builder to build
here. I just want to make sure I get the
question.
>> We all want a neighborhood that adds to
the value of the community and not
detracts from it. And so from what I'm
hearing so far, I'm not seeing this
>> proposal as the type that is going to
add to this community. So I'm very
concerned and I think you should be very
concerned as well. And I know that's why
we're all here.
>> Right. Got it. Right.
>> So we're not opposed to building a
subdivision there. Right.
>> But let's make it the right one. And I
mean it starts with you and you
approving R1 to R4. That's a big step
here that that just isn't reflective of
the community.
So, I would like you to ask you to take
that into consideration
and then
>> and I would speak on the uh Kluff Pike
thing, but I think you have enough
information on that.
>> The uh and I don't want to interrupt you
again. I'm sorry. Sorry. Are you
finished? Okay. Are are you finished or
No. Um, I just want to say that with the with the cluff um, entrance
kind of thing,
>> I think Union Township is getting a
reputation for letting builders come in,
build whatever they want, forget about
what impact it has on the surrounding
areas. And of course, when you bring
that up with the zoning commission, you
know what they say? Oh, not our problem.
That's a Clare that's a Claremont County
thing. But it is their problem and it is
your problem because you are approving
these subdivisions. So, you have a great
opportunity in this this instance to ask
the builder to step up. It's going to
cost him a little bit more money. That's
why he doesn't want to move the the
entrance to Shaylor, but it's going to
cost us a lot less money in the long
run. So, you can do that. You can say,
"Hey, Mr. Builder, go back and change
that entrance, you know, and make the
builder, when possible, step up and take
a little bit of responsibility for the
impact, the negative impact that he is
having on the community. Let's have builders that do that.
>> The um
Are you finished?
>> I'm finished.
>> Okay, interrupt you. I'm sorry. So, um
>> by the way, uh you don't think about
things until they're brought up, right?
So, this board had no idea. We just
didn't think about it. For example, uh
do you remember when we voted on the
truck weight and you couldn't have a
commercial vehicle
>> in your parking driveway?
>> Silliest.
And I'm using I'm and I'm using uh imag
like to use a different word, but I'm
saying silliest rule that we had in the
township.
>> You have a minivan legal. You slap a
company sticker on the side of it.
Illegal. You couldn't park in your
driveway. And I'm like, what? Are you
kidding me? And so we we changed that
rule to where, hey, if you want to start
your own company and have a pickup truck
and now you want to start your own
plumbing company, slap your logo on it,
you should be allowed to do that. Now,
can you have dump trucks and
semi-truckss parked in your drive? No.
Uh, but we didn't know that till it was
brought to our attention and we
immediately as this board rectify it
changed it so there we allow folks to
have more liberty and freedom to start
their own company or whatever, right?
Um, but we didn't know that till brought
to our attention. Um, so I did not know
that folks thought the the the wording
and the explanation of R1 to R2 to R3 to
R4 um was trickery or plain favorites at
all. I don't I don't want that. So, uh,
this Mr. Flowy's lane. So, Mr. Flouty,
can you can you make a note? Let's let's
try to bring it up to to look at that of
the wording of the differences between
R1 to R4 and and make sure it's
clear-cut and I don't want it to seem
biased whatsoever. Let's just let's just
check check it out and look at it if
that's okay. And then I'll tell you this
uh M Dubac Mr. Becker voted no on it.
Mr. Flo voted yes on a uh a housing
development project. And uh it's uh it
was funny because those houses were 5 to
600,000 and it was from a different
builder and they they they are they have
um continuity. They have history of
building 5 to600,000 homes. Him and I
got chastised because wait hold on we
can't. They're like this community
doesn't want 500 to $600,000 homes. We
want more affordable homes like two to
400,000. We we got ri ripped for this
and we're like okay. And then [laughter]
now and so and so and so uh and so you
know if it is 350 so the the argument we
heard the la the last this couple months
ago was guys this is Union Township.
This isn't Indian Hill or Terrace Park.
We don't want $600,000 homes. We're like
okay and then now and now you're you're
saying see so you know you know it's you
know what's tough and I I get it. This
is what we signed up for. It's tough
because we made that decision. And you
might have liked that decision because
those homes are going to be half a
million dollar plus and and
hypothetically if these homes are not
600,000 they are more 350 to 550 that's
going to make you unhappy and so it's
like geez no matter what we do I mean I
don't know that they're going to be 550.
So they referenced Magnolia Trace which
is right down the street right
>> now Magnolia Trace has not been able to
sell new construction over 600. Okay.
There's one house, I think, out of 60
that sold over 600. Now, this is Dre and
Brookstone Homes. Brookstone,
>> they build half a million dollar houses.
They build million-doll houses in
million-doll neighborhoods. They have a
background and they have an
infrastructure to support that. They
can't even build that high a level of
house. How is somebody like Arbor
Holmes, who doesn't have any
infrastructure to support that, who's
never done it before, how are they going
to do it? So, I question I know there's
not much you can do about the quality,
but you can do something about the
zoning. Make the lots larger, you know?
I mean, what's wrong with minimum
setbacks? You can't The only thing wrong
with it is you can't stuff as many
houses in there.
>> Yeah,
>> that's it.
>> The uh I understand the uh you you you
made one comment about I wrote it down
about some of the tax incentives. Um I I
don't know why I don't get on Next Door
at all. Uh but but uh folks tell me
about it and people will say, "Oh,
another tax incentive. Another tax
incentive." We have never given out a
tax incentive um uh to home builders or
businesses. Uh that's just not something
that we do. But for some people have in their brain that that's
happened. These folks are not getting
any incentive from us. I know that. So
just so you know. So
>> yeah, I understand that. But you do give
out tiffs. You give out tiffs to
apartment buildings and all sorts of
stuff like that,
>> which which uh conversation for a
different day. And and I'll tell you
that that it keeps the money in house so
it doesn't have to go outside the
township
>> but it keeps that away from people like
that.
>> You wouldn't believe it or not. That's
exactly how they've survived subsidizes
the
>> have kept those alive have kept them
alive.
>> The tiff cannot cannot can go to the
physical building but it can't be used
for salary.
So let's let Mr. Wright but that's
another
[laughter] fair. Fair time and and the
record of multif family
>> time out. So So a tiff just
[clears throat] 30 second elevator.
>> 30 second ele Okay. The tiff freezes the
property value at the base prior to the
improvement. All the improvement goes
into it's basically a separate pile
instead of the pie being split up 50
different ways. It gets it all comes to
the township. We have obligations to
either make the schools whole or provide
alternative compensation depending on
what they want. We do both. Aside from
that, we have the ability to deploy the
TIFF revenues specifically in support of
safety services. And my May 26 work
session presentation demonstrated that
we provide more than three million, was
it three million? 3 million annually in
safety services funding from our tiffs
throughout the township. And we're
permitted to do that.
>> It's our largest expenditure from the
tiff aside from debt obligations. that
support things like this building and
other public projects and our compensate
compensation to the schools.
>> Can TIF money be used for policemen or
firemen salaries?
>> It they can it's technically they can
>> Yeah, you can use it for you can you can
use it for salaries and capital
indefinitely for police capital
expenditures. We typically use it for
capital expenditures to offset the hit
on their levied funds which are police
9, 10, and 20 because with the salaries
you have to keep track of that and then
eventually you basically there's some
you have to basically refund it and then
it's
>> because I read that the tiff funds
cannot be used for those.
>> You're looking at post 2005 post 2005
tiffs. So,
>> those are typically tiffs that are
adopted. Uh, 57097
I actually just sent this to somebody.
570973
C tiffs, which are I call them area
tiffs, not district or parcel tiffs.
That's what I call them. Partial tiffs
are specific projects. Area tiffs are
larger residential uh they're actually
called residential incentive districts.
We don't have any post 2006 residential
incentive district
>> tiffs. We only have we have 2003s and
2005s
>> and all of those are eligible to fund
police and fire expenses out of that.
>> Okay, good.
>> And then the 570973b
tiffs which are the commercial tiffs
which apartments are taxed commercially.
>> So they pay a higher effective millage
rate than a residential property does. I
believe in West Claremont the
residential effective rate is about 56
mills and the the commercial rate is 67
or 68 mills. So commercial properties
pay a higher effective millage rate. Uh
for example, I've seen multif family
values as high as 155 to $156,000
per door. So a 200 unit apartment
complex could be appraised as high as
$30 to $35 million. I think the union
was generating more than was it more
than half a million almost 600 700 th000
don't quote me I got to look it up but
it's a lot of money and from that 55%
goes to the schools the township retains
the other 45% of that
>> under a typical makehole agreement and
those are used specifically to backs
stop safety services and to keep the
amount and the levy requests lower
through that economic development
funding. Well, that's great and thank
you for that information. And that's the
kind of information that we look for
when we come to zoning meetings, when we
come to this to get the correct
information. So, thank you for that.
>> Oh, thank you. Thank you.
>> And I'm done.
>> Good. Good job. By the way, the uh um
Oh, you're good. You're good. The uh
Okay, it's 8:07. All right. Let me call
for a quick recess. Uh gentlemen, I'll
entertain a motion to recess at uh 8:05.
>> So, second.
>> Uh any discussion, Mr. Campbell, roll
call. Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> For recess at 8:05 p.m.
All right. Uh, Mr. Campbell, I will
entertain a motion or gentleman
entertain a motion to exit recess. So
move
>> second.
>> Mr. Camp roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes. We're back in session
at 8:18 p.m.
>> Got it. Perfect. Okay. Uh, thank you,
Miss Dubac. We'll move on. Is there
anyone else that would like to speak
that is against uh this this uh
development? Sir, come on.
>> And will you please bring your cards up?
I know I know Mr. Dill said didn't need
them, but I that helps me because I'm
trying to keep notes and keep
>> I apologize. Mr. Campbell needs to write
down your name and address for the
record. The cards help him. So, I
[snorts] I apologize for that. That was
my mistake. And the reason we do that is
if there's followup or something, we
need to get back with you. We got your
name and number. Thank you.
>> Please accept my apology wrong.
>> No, thank you. No, thank you.
>> All right. Do you swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and the truth?
Hope you got it.
>> I do.
>> Say your name and address.
>> My name is Alex Lambro. I live at 1069
Club Pipe.
I'm the only resident on Club Pipe that
didn't get a notice
on this development. It doesn't
[clears throat] matter because I got
enough information.
I [snorts] recognize the reality
that people have the rights to develop
the properties. However, when they
purchase the property, regardless of how
they obtained it,
they they knew it was an R1 property.
They're asking for an R4, which is
legally their rights.
But how it was done is what concerns me.
[snorts]
Notifications were sent out. Some people
got it, some people didn't.
The association didn't get it
on the development.
And when they made the presentation last
month,
they had none of this information.
Different designs, different completely.
They put the notices out.
Did everybody get them? I didn't.
Did they put signs out? They put one
sign out in the woods
in the subdivision. Nothing on Club.
Nothing on Saber.
How will people know what's going on
if they didn't notify the people?
And when we attended the meeting, the
zoning meeting, the people were pretty
nice. The whole board sympathetic,
but whatever the citizens brought up,
you don't get to see it. No record
whatsoever.
Now today we're coming over brand new
designs
brand new everything. We don't know
nothing.
How can we come up here
and ask for something when we don't
know? It was never presented to the
people.
And if you look at your own forms, we
all took an oath at one time and another
to serve and protect.
We're serving the public. The public
don't know what R1 is, M1,
whatever.
They don't know what it is, what the
rules are.
My main concern between R1 and R4 is the
spacing between
the houses,
particularly in the backyard. R4 allows
you to only have five feet for backyard.
What are you going to do? Shake hands
with your neighbor every morning.
You know, those things need to be in
writing.
It was a complaint about the
subdivision.
That subdivision road is only 24 ft.
It's not wide enough, [snorts]
you know. Now you change the rules. I
can't identify the problems now
on it. R4 changes. Once you take a vote
here,
if any changes is done, it doesn't come
back to you.
One person makes a decision.
It's not that comes back to the board
and the board votes on it for the
changes.
Your own bylaws says one individual does
it and they will notify the board. It
doesn't come back and start all over
again for a new. And if you look at your
paperwork,
I'm sorry.
[snorts]
Okay. If you look at your paperwork on
326Z
part 4, the township zoning commission
and the township trustee may request
other county, state, and federal
agencies such as the Claremont County
Planning Commission, county engineer,
water and soil conser conservation,
Claremont County Water and Sewer
District, and Ohio PA to review and
comment on submitted [snorts]
plans.
Okay. At the meeting, we asked
for storm sewer because on Clap Pike, it
does not work. And I guarantee you that
you can drop a gallon of dye in front of
our houses
and you can dump water
and let a storm and it ain't going
nowhere. The storm sewers do not work at
[snorts] all.
Sewer system. You got an eight 8 in
sewer system
on clock pipe.
60 years old.
You got the creek back there with two
natural ponds. Do you have an EPA
report? We hear a lot of reports coming
in. I came to your office to look at
them. I can't find them.
It's all here. I have to see everything
in writing. What I recommend is because
the way the process was done, send it
back and give opportunity to people to
look at the new designs.
I can't even talk about it because I
don't know. This is totally different
of what we saw two weeks ago.
How can we make recommendations? How can
we ask for stuff when we don't know?
They didn't have no pictures of houses.
They told us they're going to build us
to 6,000 square foot homes on a 9,000
square foot lot.
Look at the
>> watch it on TV, on YouTube. It's too
many unanswered questions, stuff that
people ask for.
You, the board, don't get to see them
because nobody wrote it down. They
thought it was a big joke about the
gate, which is the dumbest thing I ever
heard. You're going to put a gate there?
Ain't no fence. What's the sense of
having a gate
just to block the street? They drive
around it.
It's too many unanswered questions to
the public. They're so fed up and they
just don't trust you. That's the
reality.
I recommend
send it back. Give the people an
opportunity
to digest it. see what they need and
then come back. We got plenty of time.
They already admitted that they won't do
nothing till next year.
>> Mr. Do you want me to address a few
things you talked about?
>> Yes, please.
>> Just, you know, they're not 6,000 foot
homes. That would be like an Indian Hill
style home. That'd be a monster home.
Just just not 6,000.
Um this is the first well zoning was
first and then then it comes here and
the county won't take a look at it
unless the township says yes they they
approving this in their that goes for
all of Claremont County. So no matter
where you're going to build in the
county
>> if the township's not going to approve
it and vote it down the countyy's going
to look at it to begin with. So the
first step is here that's the first step
and then and then uh the engineer and
the county [snorts] those folks look at
it after that. Um just you know the uh
so when when they approached the zoning
>> um they they came with their plans and
then they heard you know the residents
talk and they had the zoning board's
recommendations. That's why they changed
it to accommodate what everyone with the
feedback they got to give us these plans
that that's why they did that. So the
gate you're talking about they did that
for those two guys over there for safety
services but then but then they got got
approval but they didn't need the gate.
So the gate was actually to help for
safety services, you know, for for that.
And then then they did away with the
gate because they realized they didn't
need it. Uh so they actually thought the
uh the adjacent neighborhood didn't want
the gate at all. So that's why they put
an end culde-sac there instead of having
a gate drive through. So therefore
>> therefore the road doesn't go through
the neighborhood to the right. Uh so
they just put an end culde-sac there.
was a gate, but from my
understanding the feedback they got was
from the residents that live in that
current neighborhood. They didn't want
the gate and so they they basically cut
it off. That's why that's why the plans
are different tonight than they were. So I mean
>> you could say you don't trust any of us
up here on this board. But no no you say
you don't trust any of us. What I'm
saying is they send the plans first to
zonings. Zoning makes recommendations
then they modify them to bring them here
and that's what they're doing now. So I
mean that so far everything they've done
whether you like them or not is
irrelevant. They've done everything
correctly up to this point. That makes
sense.
It's as I stated before, it's not a
matter if they did, you know, the
corrected problems or the issues. You
had over 30 concerns
at that meeting. Not a one of them made
it to your report that you got in front
of you. Who are we serving?
When you met with the contractor, you
met several times. Your guideline itself
says that you met with a contractor
several times. Okay? You send a notice
out to the people that you're going to
do it, but you don't give them any
information, any kind of information of
what their rights are.
Nothing,
you know. And what happens is they say
they attend the meeting and the I tell
you very simple
the only thing everybody got very clear
if you don't follow our recommendation
what we're going to do we're going to
strip the land
and put houses on it.
Well
you don't blackmail people. He's from
out of town. He's coming in here to make
a profit.
There's nothing wrong with it. He has
the rights to. It's his land.
But if he wants something changed, he
has to cooperate.
You know, we ask how the houses look. We
didn't have no pictures
of see what kind of house you do.
How can we have input on it if we didn't
know? How can we prepare for it? It's an
unfair. Now, the bottom line is the
reality is you can make a choice and you
got a hard choice to make today. Either
send it back, vote for it, or turn it
down.
You know, that's your choice. And I
wouldn't want to be in your shoes right
now. But the difference is these people
don't know what to do next because
you're not providing that information.
Don't you think you should have a piece
of paper guideline
for every citizen to look at it says
okay they're going to do this but I have
the option of doing that
you know to protest it or support it.
You're leaving them out in the cold.
It's very simple.
Union tells you precinct t the last
election for governor, you had 61 people
voted for the governor. Either way,
whichever party it was, there was 601
people voted.
According to your own township rules, to
put a referendum in requires 8%
of that vote. That's 47 people.
Okay? People should know that that
that's all they have to do is get 47
registered voters to participate to put
it on the ballot.
Now, this is where you come in. Would
you assist the people to put it on the
ballot if you vote yes on it so they can
meet the the language? They got 30 days
to do it. Would you provide that service
to the public to put a referendum in
>> that I think that I think that I
completely understand your p completely
understand your your your perspective in
question there and yeah you're
absolutely right that there's a legal uh
path for referendum
>> u but I also believe that that probably
stretches beyond the limit of
the government here I'm going to ask
that Because hold on.
>> Yeah, I understand.
>> Is it? No, here's a question. Like
here's the very black and white question
with that. You be asking if township
resources can support or oppose a ballot
item. And that's a very dangerous
slippery hill. That is an issue.
>> No, I'm not asking for that.
[clears throat]
>> I'm not asking whatsoever of that.
>> What I'm asking for the res legal
language that you need specifically
for Union Township precinct T
exclusively to vote on this one to
remain R1
or to change to R4.
That's all I'm asking is to provide the
proper language. clean referendum clean
referendum language for so yeah and also
probably another item there is I don't
believe it's just uh to to precinct t
>> I think it's a you'd have to collect
signatures
uh for the total was it 35% in the last
gubernatorial for the township
>> no no no it's not the township
>> I'm not I'm not here to legisl I'm not
here I'm not here to litigate that I
just
>> what I'm trying to say yes.
>> I've I've looked at that previously as a
as an issue for for residents.
Absolutely understand
>> and absolutely have shared that in the
past that referendum is a right that
residents have. Absolutely. And to make
it clear,
>> basically what you're trying to tell me
if I come in as a businessman,
okay? And I want something from you.
You're going to bend over backwards like
you did with them. You sat down. You had
meetings with them. You didn't charge
them for it.
Okay? You turn around and wrote wrote up
all the designs and the paperwork.
Okay? and you didn't charge him
anything.
And now the citizens that be paying your
taxes, and most of them are retirees on
a fixed income,
[clears throat] asking you to represent
them and provide them with the necessary
tools
to defend what they will guarantee when
they purchase their properties.
And now you want to change the rules
and you know it and I know it. Senior
citizens can't afford to fight you. The
only thing they can ask is put it on a
referendum.
>> I'm not I'm not looking for a fight from
anybody and I'm not trying to change any
rules with anybody.
>> I'm not asking to change the rules. I'm
asking you to use equal rules
>> to both sides.
You leaving one side the taxpayers
on the coal and you open the roll the
carpets out on the other side. Make it
even.
That's all. And I hope you consider my
position and
>> you go from there.
>> Thank you, Mr.
>> Do you have any questions for me?
>> No. No. No. Thank you. Thank you for
your time. Appreciate you. Uh Miss Come
on up.
All right, just raise your right hand
and then do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth. Nothing but the truth.
So hope you got God.
>> I do.
>> And then just do me a favor. Say your
name and address slowly so Mr. Campbell
can grab.
>> There's a card that I turned in.
>> Someone has
>> What was your first name?
>> Margaret.
>> Got it right here. You're good. We still
need it for the record. Go ahead and say
it. I think I just put Margaret Zidan,
but legally it's Margaret Richardson
Zan, 1088 Ridge Point Drive, Davia 451.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Um, this isn't really opposed or for
more comments and questions.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Um,
first I'm grateful for the culdeac
because my big my big concern living on
Ridge Point was a road coming through
with maybe a hundred and whatever number
more cars trying to get through that.
>> Yeah. Um, I do want to I do want to make
one comment because some of you up there
probably agree with me. Um, I'm still
very active and I drive a lot. Just
because I'm a senior doesn't mean I
drive any less. I just want you to know
[laughter]
and my neighbors are in and out of their
houses all the time just as often as the
young folks with little kids. I'm sorry.
>> Sorry. I don't need my I don't need a
golf cup.
>> I appreciate that.
>> I just want you to know. Thank you.
Okay. So the um the water issue was
already brought up. It's on both sides
of that culde-sac. So I think seven
houses is going to be a big issue um to
take care of that so that that doesn't
impact. I'm concerned that if because
I've seen this even on cloth just across
a little later, you know, just just
across shaller
um when they put in uh into a new
subdivision there, they really raised
the ground. I certainly don't want the
ground raised in a way that's going to
shed water into either other people's
yards or homes or the like the Cluff
Pike residents right now who the water
doesn't drain.
I'm extremely concerned
about another road coming off Cloth Pike
and the short distance of a light the
distance of maybe a house and a half and
the exit we now can take to get out onto
cloth. Maybe there's only about 10
houses between us and the next light
just just to kind of give you an idea.
And somewhere in there, another
entrance on the cluff. I I just think I
I'm concerned. I think that's dangerous.
I just think it's dangerous. If there's
a way of doing shallor or shayaylor,
however it's pronounced, that would make
a little more sense to me. It doesn't It
seems to have a little more room without
some of the difficulty that we're
already having. And wherever that new
one goes in, there's not a left turn
lane.
Um, so if they want to turn into their
subdivision from there, it's going to be
extremely difficult
um to do that, especially if that's the
only way in or out for them. Um,
so I'm not too I'm not certain. There
are times getting in and out is is
really difficult and it and we really
depend on those lights. I think someone
mentioned about not having a right turn
on the red
there. Um because we really depend on
those two red lights so that we can get
out even to make a right turn without
having and times you're still kind of
gunning it a little bit currently just
to get out safely and I know there have
been a few accidents right there but um
I think that's it. I didn't have major I
somebody answered the question about the
housing. Um, I certainly wouldn't want
houses lower than, you know, 350
just because of what we just got the new
evaluations on what ours are.
>> I know. I know.
>> And so that's a pro. And then and then I
also have concerns about they only have
to put five feet between houses for me.
That's a big concern as well.
>> Um, that's that's not a space enough
space between houses. It really isn't. and I
grew up and was born and raised in
Detroit. Um, I know what close houses
look like and I know also what a hazard
it is if one of them catches fire, how
quickly that spreads if you've only got
five feet or less between buildings. So,
my biggest concerns are the cluff pike
and that that glad he mentioned the
water and the other and that's it.
>> Yeah, I I didn't get your last name so I
can't but thank you, Miss Margaret.
Appreciate you very much.
>> Thank you. Oh, I'm sorry. Mer, any
questions?
>> No.
>> Any questions,
>> Mr. Lo?
>> No. Thank you.
>> Thank you, miss. Appreciate you.
>> Okay. Is there anyone else that like to
speak here? Please come on up, sir.
» Perfect. Perfect.
>> You got it. Thank you, sir. Appreciate
you.
>> Then I'll swear you in.
>> All right. Do you swear to the truth,
the whole truth? Are they both the
truth? So help God?
>> I do. Great.
>> Yours name and address for the record.
>> My name is Doug Schaer. I live on 1060
Kluff Pike and um
I have the house right there that's
affected by all of this. The house right
there where the entrance is at.
>> So I've got
>> Oh, right. right right there.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Right there. All right.
>> Yep. I've got the uh the house that is
physically affected by all of this.
Yeah. Which is fine. I just want to say
I truly support all this. I think this
is a great
>> great thing. And the last the May 24th
meeting, uh, we were talking about
plenty of green space. The the this is
new. The prior plans had much more green
space, which would have been really
nice. Um, there's a ton of green space
back there, but there's a ton of
wildlife back there. Um, I'm not too
thrilled about having a road right
beside me, but I know what it is. It is
what it is. But we also have to consider
what what's the safety of the people
that are back there. Uh, we're all
concerned, all of us people at the
Bridge Point, one word, Ridge Point is
concerned about drainage. You I'm sure
you guys hear this all the time. I'm not
even going to bring that up anymore.
Drainage is an issue. But to me, the
real issue is is the the traffic on
Kluff opposed to the traffic on Bach
Bucks. It we've all driven both down
both of them. Um during school hours,
traffic on Kluff is insane. you can't
get out. If it's
if you're if it's 7:45, good luck.
Somebody might be nice enough to stop
short of you. You've got about a
football field before Shaylor at my
house and then the new street's going to
be right there. Um so you've got to gun
it and hopefully nobody's coming. I've
almost been t-boned there plenty of
times. I mean, dozens of times. My kids
have also too. Um, every time, this is
just during school hours. U when we
first moved there 27 years ago, it was
just a a stop sign. They raised up the
land. They they took all of our shrubs
and trees that were blocking the view. I
replanted another 40 plus shrubs and
trees out there. Now, with this new
layout, they're going to have to widen
the road because people are not going to
be able to turn in and out safely. It's
a hazard the way it is now. with this
plan. The only solution that I see is
going back to the old plan. Is it
possible we could pull up the old plan?
So,
the old plan it has you have two exits.
If you want to go south towards 125, you
have to turn left out of my house or the
new subdivision.
Good luck with the school. Like I said,
TW 27 years ago, Glenn and Ameilia,
they're miles away. Now that school's so
close that we can hear the the metronome
clinking every time the band's playing,
which is great. Fully support it. But
the reality of it is Bach Bucks has less
traffic than than Cliff Pipe.
>> My solution is either gun it or you turn
right on the Shaylor. You turn right on
the Buck Bucks and you're going past
that subdivision anyways. So the only
solution is to go through the
subdivision and then you can turn right
onto Bach Bucksen and go towards 125.
And that way the the people in the new
subdivision, the 60 homes there will
have an alternative route besides
turning left and towards 125. They can
turn right out of out on a Bach Bucksen
which has less traffic. If you're
turning right out of that subdivision,
you have a quarter mile towards Shaylor.
You got another quarter mile before the
next traffic light. You don't have
[snorts] 300 feet before the before the
traffic lighted trailer like it is at my
house. I know no matter what happens,
I'm still have to turn right and turn right. But I'm advocating
for the new people and all the realators
that come in, all the contractors that
come in, all the minivan bombs that come
in, they're going to need to safely pull
out of their own subdivision. I don't
mind it. I'm a wild man. I'll gun it and
get it. You can ask the people that live
there, but it's a reality of it all.
Um, I just don't get the understanding
of it's going to be a slight
inconvenience. Uh, and I understand the
inconvenience. All of the traffic is
going past my house. All of it. And I've
had our land got reduced once already.
It's going to end up getting reduced
again. So, that's another inconvenience.
[clears throat] Whatever. Which is fine.
Whatever. We still support it. But the
only solution that I see for the
residents, the new residents for this
new subdivision is to be able to exit on
the back side of Bucks and to turn right
up to 1.5. That's all that I got.
>> Mr. Becker, any questions?
>> Mr. Lo,
>> questions for you guys. What are your
thoughts between the traffic from Bach
Boxing and Club Pike? Which one's worse?
You don't have to even talk about it
because I know that there's reports and
this that and the other, but you don't
have to talk about it. I just want to
give you something to think about,
right?
>> Yeah,
>> I see it every day.
>> It's a loaded question. I know.
>> Uh, no. Well spoken, you know, and thank
you.
>> And then, hey, hey, uh, Mr. Flatty, keep
the old plan handy because I'll probably
reference it later on tonight.
>> Y,
>> uh, M. Schaefer, first off,
>> fantastic attitude given the fact that,
yeah, I think out of
almost everyone, you're probably the
most affected. Uh especially since the
main entrance is going right by your
house.
>> Yeah. And we still support the
subdivision. We love it.
>> I think the homes that you guys have
presented, I think they're wonderful
homes and they're somewhat affordable
for this economy.
>> Um sorry to interrupt.
>> No, no, no. You're okay. I I just
appreciate your attitude. And uh do you
hypothetically, maybe it's shot down,
but if it is upheld to be voted for, is
there anything you want specifically for
them to do on your property?
>> Well, I've I'm already building a fence.
I got a permit to build a fence a couple
months ago. I'm building shadow box
fence, the the good neighbor fence. Um
>> I'm taking I'm being proactive on this.
Um, but if they do this other they do
this other subdivision where they're
because we're bending the knee to the
fine people at Ridge Point. I might, you
know, I don't know. I might just buy a
bunch of junkers out there and put put
it behind my house. Why not?
[laughter]
>> Yeah,
>> I'm joking.
>> No, no, I'm laughing. I'm laughing. It's We We have to try to make
[laughter] light of life sometimes. No,
it's good. Okay. Um
>> Um, they said they're already going to
put shrubs and trees out there. That's
about all they can do. Um,
>> do do you want me to ask them for
anything else? I'll put it
>> if they want to pony up for some of the
fence. I'd be fine with that, too. But
and I'm installing all this. It's It's a
beautiful fence.
>> More than welcome to look at it,
whatever. But
>> Okay, fair enough. The uh
>> Yep. I don't have a problem with it at
all again, but I think it's a safety
issue.
>> Yeah, I understand. Thank you. Thank
you, sir. Appreciate you very much. Um
Okay. Is there anyone else that is
Please come on. I saw you first, sir.
Then then I'll get you you next. Come on
up, sir.
>> Yeah. No. No. Yeah. Please bring that
up. Yeah, appreciate that. Helps out Mr.
Campbell a lot.
>> Okay,
>> then I got to write it.
>> Oh, it's it's okay. Just just talk slow
so Mr. Campbell can get you. Okay.
>> Oh, talk slow. Okay. So, I tell you
verbally. Great.
>> You verbally this this nice gentleman
right here.
>> You look quite nice.
>> Yeah. So, you look like a nice Let me go
swear you.
>> Absolutely.
>> Do you swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth? Are they both the truth?
So, be God.
>> Yeah.
>> Great. And then just state your state
your name and address for the record,
but
>> I know it's a long night. Everyone's got
the giggles.
>> Mr. Campbell can write it [laughter]
down.
>> Mr. Campbell, it's Ivon Delgado. I V A N
D E L G A D like dog O.
>> Got it. And then your address, sir.
>> 1122 Forest Run Drive. Feel free to
visit.
>> That's a joke.
>> Yeah,
>> I think there have been tremendous
solutions [clears throat] raised to the
issues proposed. I don't want to
reiterate those. The traffic, the
drainage, the people whose homes are
directly affected. I came here to be
mainly informed and I certainly was and
I think everyone's spoken very
eloquently on those issues. I'm in full
support of the solution proposed the
entrance to Shayaylor etc. very
intelligent solutions. There's just one
perspective I want to add from the point
of someone who owns no property. Now
don't be uh misguided by the spring
chickens behind me. All right? But I
unlike them who are concerned of their
property and of their existing value as
they should be. It is their property.
>> Sure.
>> I myself will one day hope to be in a
position like them where I concerned of
my own property. Right now I rent a home
at the address I mentioned with four
other people. There's five of us. And
yes, it's legal. Five of us in one
place.
We've tried many, many times to buy a
home, but because of the prices of the
economy, which I know the trustes can't
control. We're outbid every time. We
pulled together our money. We have a
handsome down payment. I get a nice
corporate job. That's why I'm wearing
the shirt. It's not for you guys,
unfortunately.
But outbid cash every time. Now, this is
not necessarily a request of a developer
or anything like that. I understand the
prices were lowered. This is just a
general sentiment that out of all the
solutions you've heard today, I think
all of them are valid. I just want to
throw in my two cents that I think one
solution that won't solve anything is
raising the prices. I know some people
think ah they were 600,000 before
and some as you mentioned not to make
your head spin some people want higher
prices some people want lower prices.
If I had property in this existing area
perhaps I'd want higher prices but I
want to bring the perspective of
somebody who one day dreams to have
property in this area to build a life
here with my friends in Union Township
where I intend to stay.
As you enter hypothetically the
negotiation phase after this, the one
thing I request for you to weigh is of
course the traffic, of course the
drainage, but raising the prices back to
600,000
is not something I think would solve any
of the problems brought here today and
not something that would benefit people
like me and my friends who want to
establish a future life here.
>> That's all.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dion. Appreciate it very
much.
>> Thank you very much. eloquently spoken.
Thank you, Mr. Belgado.
>> Okay, Mel, did you you want to come up?
Okay, Mel, come on up, sir.
Mr. Camp, do you have Mel Mr. Dean's uh address memorized?
» All right, Dit. Mr. Dit, sorry. Do you
swear to tell truth? The whole truth. I
think the truth.
>> I do.
>> Melvin Dit 3902 Banks Road. Yes,
>> sir. I've heard uh many uh things here
tonight and I want to just restate that
your first purpose here is to protect
the residents
and that means in all their general
safety, their property
and that is your duty.
I disagree with uh one of the statements
that somebody made. It's not you,
this board here, that are trying to
change the rules.
It's the gentlemen back here that are
trying to change it from R1 to R4.
Now, sometime in the past, there's been
many many people that have looked over
and figured out how to zone these
various areas. Why they did that, I
don't know, but they thought that they
were good. And for you to change, excuse
me, I stated that wrong. For somebody to
try to change those in the middle of the
road is wrong. If they need to be
changed, they need to be changed. But
before something like this comes up, not
in the middle of the game.
That's about what I have to say.
Thank you, Mr. Dwood. Appreciate you
very much. Thank you.
I was taking notes. Okay. Uh, is there
anyone else that like to speak tonight?
Come on up, sir.
Oh my gosh.
» Howdy.
>> All right. Perfect. And then uh All
right. Raise your right hand. You swear
to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
they both the truth. So hopey God.
>> I do.
>> Great. And then just say uh your name
and address for the record, but slowly
so Mr. came and grabbed it.
>> My name is Jacob Dom. J A C O B.
Last name Dom. D as in dog. A as in
apple. U is in unicorn. M as in mother.
[snorts]
>> Got it. Please. Yeah.
>> I am the second owner of a 72year-old
house. I'm proud that I was able to buy
that house. I'm 25 years old. I bought
that house three years ago. Most people
my age, most my contemporaries are not
capable of being able to buy a house.
And if I say I didn't compromise, that
would be a lie. It is a project house as
an understatement. Certainly, a lot of
work has to be done to it. That house
was built after the Second World War.
It was built for a family who bought it,
who raised their three daughters in it,
who lived in it, died in it, had a whole
life in it. It's like a an 1100 square
foot house. The profound amount of what
is being built today, not just here, but
all across the country, is homes that
are way larger than that, don't fit the
scale of that, are much bigger, often
double the size, and because of that,
are also way more expensive relative to
people's incomes. It is not generally
possible to be able to be a a father
with a stay-at-home wife and a child
anymore and own a house. It's just not
functionally possible. You have to at
least have a two parent income and then
all of the uh extra problems that come
with that like having to afford child
care and plan around that and all the
other stuff around that just to be able
to raise a family.
And so my problem with this proposal
wouldn't be that they're
not expensive enough, but they're too expensive really. Uh, I'm very much in favor of the diversity
of the free hand of the market. Let
developers build. If developers
somewhere want to build expensive homes,
let them build expensive homes. They
want to build cheap homes. Let them
build cheap homes. But certainly as as a
community, if if the goal of the
township is to bring in and retain the
youth to have a literal future because
eventually all the older people in the
back are going to die off and you won't
have a tax base if they're all dead,
>> right? You better be careful.
>> You're going to need people like me who
are willing to set up a set up a life
here and live here and pay taxes here
and grow the community. And it's very
much so impossible to do that when
there's nothing that you can afford. And
when the houses like mine that are fixer
uppers that someone who was 96y old died
in are very rare to find.
when when it's impossible to start that
future, it makes why would you live in
Union Township? Why not go live
somewhere else? Why not rent an
apartment in downtown Cincinnati? I if
you're going to not be able to own a
house anyway, like why bother trying?
So, I think I would encourage the
trustees here to consider and favor
development plans that include smaller
lot sizes, that include lower price
housing, that include smaller houses.
And also, you have to consider when the
only stuff being built and developed is
big houses on big lots, you're telling
people essentially, if you want to own a
house, you have to mow this much yard.
If you want to own a house, you have to
vacuum this much floor. Some people
would rather like to have a smaller
house and not have to pay the extra
heating and cooling costs, pay the extra
energy bills and do the extra
maintenance, but that that lower end
diversity in the freehand of the market
is quite lacking. And that's not just
because of zoning restrictions, which in
of themselves are already quite crazy
restrictive to be able to build smaller
stuff, but also because of other people
who already own stuff who are worried
about their own
housing values going not up enough and
then usually often later complaining
when the precipitous increase of
property taxes also occurs.
So, I would I would encourage you all to
consider and encourage developers to
build more affordable homes for young
families that can build and start a
future here. And maybe we can actually
revitalize America, one small township
at a time. Thank you for your time.
>> Thank you, Mr. Jones. Appreciate
>> you, Jacob.
>> Jacob, have you have you spoke have you
come up to this podium before for
something recently?
>> I have not. This is the first time I've
attended a township trustee meeting, but
I've lived in the township for six years
now.
>> Okay. I thought I was recalling that
you've uh uh spoken spoken before.
Anyway,
>> we might have met before.
>> Eloquently said, "Thank you, Jacob.
Thank you. Appreciate it."
>> Okay. Is there anyone else that's in
opposition?
[clears throat]
>> Okay, Mr.
builders, developers, I'll bring you
back up and uh
please and uh I have sworn you both
already in. So, you guys are both good
to go and then uh you guys can tag team
or whatever you like to do. No problem.
>> Wow. Well, hopefully we got it uh some
of it down and some of we can answer
some of these questions. Um I'll start
off with um the connection to Shaylor
Road. Um the terrain is very steep. Uh it's the property really drops down.
It's about 12 to 15 feet from the uh
property down to Shaylor Road. It's a
very steep uh grade to Trevors and it
wouldn't be practical to put a road to
Shaylor Road. Um secondly, if we did do
put a [snorts] road to sh if it was
possible to put a road to Shaylor, u the
creek does come I think it's on the
north side of Sher and it does cross
over that that uh that proposed street
would be approximately the same distance
we have it from the intersection now on
club. It would be about the same
distance from the intersection from the
light. But the main reason is not to go
to shers is due to the steep terrain is
the main reason. So that's why we uh we
propose not to go to uh to Shaylor Road.
Okay. Um I guess with Mr. Sheman uh with
his concerns
um I'd like to say that um construction
entrance would come off of cloth and
just as he stated we would build the
subdivision u you know everything would
come in off of cloth. The only things
that we would do uh would be the sewer
and water tie in onto Ridge Point and
then the paving and curb construction
would be uh coming off the ridge point.
Um but like he said, the main heavy
lifting of the earthwork and things of
that nature, we would bring a
construction entrance in off club Pike.
Uh his water issues. Um,
I'd like to, um, I guess the best thing
to do is if I can, can I approach the
board and just show them our thoughts
real quick on this on the plan? Be
easier to discuss.
So,
» so
this is lot 52. Here's the call to say.
There's a ridge high point that comes
this way. Water drains. You can see the
finger. It drains down into here into
this pond. This point drains this way.
There's this finger he's talking about
that runs across his property. This is
it's a natural natural drain. All the
impervious area would be collected by
the storm sewer run down this way. The
only thing we we can do a side ditch
down here and we can put a catch basin
in here, pick this up, take it to here
and then we would eliminate that that
flow from going across this property. So
that would answer that question.
>> Got it. Perfect. Okay.
Let's see. Um,
I'll let you talk about covenants and
restrictions on the HOA.
Um, I guess the only other point I'd
like to make is is you know, property is
currently zoned R1 and um, you know, the
property could be developed as R1.
Access would come could be uh, come
right off CL. It would tie it could tie
into Ridge uh, Ridge Point Drive and no
approvals are required. There's no
approvals required. Only approval
through this board. I'm sorry. an
approval through this board or these
residents would now have an input on
what kind of road would be built from
Cluff Pike to Ridge Point because it's
zoned R1. It's approved. They could a
developer come in tomorrow and build a
road from Kluff Pike to Ridge Point and
develop R1 lots on it and and the
access. So, what I'm trying to say is is
the access is really independent of the
zoning. We're asking for R4 zoning
to build again, as the two young
gentlemen say, a more affordable
housing. We're trying to take the
natural character of the land and uh and
preserve the ponds, create create a
community, create an environment that
would people want to live in, you know,
and so um you know, in my opinion, the
uh the access could be that road
connection could be built tomorrow. you
know, so I just I just wanted to bring
that up to your your attention.
Um,
oh, with regards to the traffic impact
study, there was a mention of 180
vehicles per day or we did the traffic
counts are as such. The [clears throat]
AM peak trips are 47 and the PM peak
trips are 60. Those are minimal. They're
small amounts of traffic with relation
to the the overall roadway system. So, I
just wanted to make you aware that it's
not 188 or or whatever was referenced in earlier.
Um,
the rear yards are 30 feet. They're not
five feet.
And, uh, the other op comment I think I
had was is there will be side
>> yards, but ballpark. Yeah. Sideyards.
Ball. Ballpark. say what's I know
they're different because it is R4 but
what's what's the
>> we're proposing 5 foot of sideyard 10 ft
between houses and that's consistent
with what was done at Magnolia Trace
» I think unless you guys got any
questions for me I'll let Ed take care
of uh some of the comments that he's
going to address.
Um, so I don't want to repeat everything
that Doug said, but um, when it comes to
the gentleman who lives at the end of
Ridge Point Avenue, right, Ridge Point
Drive right now, we're not going to
block his driveway as mentioned. We're
going to be um, coming in off of Cloff
Pike with our construction entrance. If
when we go to tie in that sewer, um, I
believe that sewer is on the side of his
driveway. Um there are ways for us to
tie in without blocking his driveway. Um
we can have no parking for our
contractors on Ridge Point Drive. I I
know it's a public street. Um but we can
require that of our contractors. Um and
then when it comes to the covenants and
restrictions, I guess that were filed
for his their neighborhood. There's no
HOA, but I guess they had to sign off on
some things. um for those seven lots.
We would be happy to review those
covenants and have our homeowners sign
off to adhere to those covenants. um if
they're, you know, if if as long as it's
not related to um you know, some sort of
square footage requirement that they're
trying to meet or a building material
that uh Arbor Homes isn't pro proposing
um as far as maintenance of their
property and things like that, we'd have
no problem uh having our homeowners sign
off on that. Um, but other than that, I
will let uh I'll let Ar unless you guys
have questions. I'll let Arbor Homes
kind of take it over with the pricing
and things like that.
>> We'll definitely have questions for
because you all are I'm going to say you
all kind of one. So, I might have you
all three come up, but yeah, please come
on up.
[clears throat]
» Oh, I'm sorry, gentlemen. I just did
you, the one of you have questions for
those guys?
>> Sorry. Okay, please go ahead.
>> Yeah. Uh so we do have a a mission
around affordable home ownership. Um so
this this home series, the destination
series is our higherend home. We have an
arrival series that we came out with in
the last few years. Starts in the low
200s. Um it's pretty sweet, frankly, in
my view. I think the the two gentlemen
in the back might might be a fan of
those kind of projects. Uh that's not
what we're building here. Um, once
again, we so we're we're owned by
Clayton Homes, which is owned by
Berkshire Hathway. So, we, you know, can
borrow money at a lower rate than most
home builders. Berkshire Hathway owns a
bunch of different like building
material companies. So, we can buy in
bulk from them. There's many different
ways that essentially we can bring
efficiency to the process and cost
effectiveness because of our scale that
allows us to build a quality home for a
decent price for American families and
that's what we're here to do. Is there
anything any questions you guys have
specifically about the homes?
>> No.
>> Mr. Becker, anything?
>> All right, Mr. Look,
>> sounds very
>> uh I do I want I want to ask you so so
the number 600 was tossed out at the
zoning case.
>> Yeah.
>> And tonight that number was not tossed
out. So what what are the prices
ballpark of these homes?
>> Yeah. 350 to six uh 550, excuse me. Uh
we have two um so Arbor's at Grandon
Pond is a subdivision up in uh South
Lebanon. It's our um Arbor series which
is different than the destination but
similar more similar than the arrival
and that's an average of 450 460 right
now.
>> The John Charles Estates in Forest Park
is averaging around 450 460. We're about
to open a um a first destination series
uh community in um Lebanon proper um
basically next year.
>> Yeah. And so we don't have, you know,
sales figures for that product here.
>> Okay. The uh I'm going to have questions
for all three of you. So if you want all
three want to come up, that's fine. So
no, no, no. Go go go and stay put. But
uh Okay. So question is is uh
um
Okay. If we if we leave it R1, which
would put you at a half acre, h how many
houses could you fit there? And then can
you just jack the price up? Honestly, I
couldn't tell you that right now. I'd
have to go back, talk to our marketing
team, see what the market could support.
I'd have to talk to the engine.
>> Well, I'm gonna ask you to give me an
educated guess. I'm not trying to come
across too strong, but it's kind of now
or never tonight. So, so if we kept it
the same at R1,
>> yeah,
>> u ballpark. Um, just we could do some
math real quick. Ballpark, how many
homes could you
>> cram in there? Yeah, that would be R1.
Uh, give you halfacre lots. And then can
you just can you just rub the price up a
little bit to make up the difference?
>> I could not tell you that because I
don't know what the R1 standards are.
>> Uh Mr. Dales, I do have that.
>> Thank you.
>> So R1's halfacre standard. So go ahead.
[clears throat]
>> So it's a calculation if you take
>> 51 homes.
>> 51.
>> Yeah.
>> That's flat
>> just taking the acreage of
>> 23.63 63 divided by the minimum square
footage of an R1 lot, which is 20,000.
That yields 51 homes.
>> But they couldn't do that much because
you have to make way for roads for
roads. So you're looking at 40
>> 45 44 45 homes after.
>> Is there a lot width minimum that you
guys?
>> Yes. Yep. 100
>> 100.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. We I mean I Yeah, we don't build
on 100 foot wide lots. The development
cost is too much.
>> Okay. Fair enough. Okay. Okay. The uh um
I know the terrain is not the best uh
but the these folks you you hear them
loud and clear.
>> Uh and actually it's really not
>> it's really not their concern or my
concern. The concern is the the
residents that are going to be moving
into there.
>> Uh it's going to be difficult for them
to get on a cloth.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> I think you can hear everyone avoids
cloth if we can avoid worst part is it's
a county road. we can't do anything to
that road even if we wanted to. Um, and
really they need to put a center lane
there. At least put a center lane there
so people can turn left, get in the
center lane, then merge over to the
right. At least do that. Uh, but but
regardless, that's that's a that's a
conversation for our county, not for
Union Township.
>> So my question is is uh
what can you do to make Shaylor happen
to put put the entrance and exit there
and reroute this plan?
>> Yeah.
>> To make it happen.
>> I'm going to turn that over. That's why
I said maybe all three of you can all
come up
>> because I
is there is there is there
>> emergency response.
>> All right. So appreciate it if nobody uh
caused any problems because obviously
our chief of police isn't here so you
know don't don't beat us up. Um but okay
so hey uh I can you can you um
>> is there any chance you can still make
your money do what you want to do? I
know the train's a little rough but make
it happen to exit out of Shaylor. Is
that possible? And can the can the
township work with you folks to make
that happen?
[cough]
>> It's not cost effective to go that way.
Just
>> okay.
>> The terrain's just too steep. And
secondly, there's a 12 in public water
man that runs along the up on the
ridgetop there. That would and require
more cost uh to relocate that water
line.
>> Got it. Got it. Um
All right. So to go back to
in the reason why you adjusted your old
plans to your new plans now, is that
because uh the folks in the neighborhood
basically didn't want drive-through
traffic? Is that is that correct?
>> That's correct. Okay.
>> But we lost two lots.
>> Yeah. Is there is there a way?
All right. No, fair enough. Okay. All
right. Got it. Um Okay. What what I went
done and y'all may want to talk about
this before we vote and give us give us
your opinion is for the front house. So
Mr. Schaefer, he's the one that owns the
nice beautiful house in the front of
your house there on Kluff. Um
the I would like for you all to take
care of his fence. Okay. Can you all do
that?
>> Yes. I was actually I meant to talk
about Mr. Schaefer when I was up here,
but yeah, happy to work
>> out of everyone. Now, the gentleman next
to lot number 52 is affected big time,
but out of everyone, everyone is
entering and exiting by his house. He's
the one that's affected the most. And
honestly, I can't believe how positive
he was because if it was me, I would be
100% against him if I was him. So, um I want you to take care of his fence.
Can you can you do that? The second part
is is uh
um
all right here's the part where you may
not like it and I need you all to
discuss this part. So how how wide is
lot 52 which is the one closest to uh
Mr. Sheman right there at the end
ballpark do you have a
>> it's 60 feet wide.
>> Okay.
Yeah. And then how how how wide is lot
53, the one right next to it?
>> I know. I know.
>> If you're asking me if I can get the lot
next to Mr. Sheman a little wider, I I I
can we can do that. We can accommodate
that.
>> I mean, do you want me to go to 65 ft? I
can make it 65.
What I would do I would increase the
setback on the culdeac a little bit
>> and and and was able to shift those lots
around and and and pull some distance
out of the lots in the back of the
culdeac and make Mr. that lot next to
Mr. Sheen wider.
>> Well, and and uh I'm surprised that the homeowner by lot number 58's not
here. So, I don't want those two
residents affected at all.
Yeah, he he I mean his lot's a little
wider now. Anyway, I can tell you how
wide his lot is.
>> But I I do not want these two residents
affected at all. At all. Zero. None.
Non-negotiable. So, uh I I don't want
any dirt in their land. Don't affect
their property. Any drainage at all. No
dirt. I don't want it. So, and I'll tell
you, our our zoning inspector, people
either love him or hate him. Uh but he he he will be on this. And so, uh,
um,
can you eliminate lot number 52 and
still make do and only put seven homes
or six homes around the culde-sac?
» I don't want to.
>> Yeah,
>> obviously. We've we've sacrificed two
lots.
>> Yeah.
>> From our initial plan,
I mean, I I would prefer to keep the lot
obviously and work with the homeowners.
Okay.
» You can make it 65 ft.
>> Okay. The uh
foot. Okay. The uh
I think that's all the questions I got.
Uh
Mr. Becker, you have anything for these
guys? Mr. Loie, anything else?
So, um I I like the questions you're
asking, Mr. Dills, as far as uh you
know, the sacrificing of additional
lots. I was just pondering the previous plan and the road all the
way through and the sacrifice of those
two lots that you're talking about, but
I think that on total more homeowners in
Ridge Point would not be happy with a road going all the way through,
but it sounds like it alleviates more
traffic concerns that uh Mr. Schaefer
shared. So, I thought that was a pretty
valid point um for the traffic concerns
that everyone has and the concern that
you have about eliminating two lots or
so and them not wanting to eliminate
four lots in total. So, I'm saying on
balance
a road going through and instead of
eliminating four that he's asking for,
just eliminate those two that are
closest to
uh Mr. Sheetman and and the other
gentlemen.
Um, so that was just a a thought. Happy
to hear any anyone's comments on that. I
don't know if you even you crack
tracking that you like that concept.
>> Uh, lot 58. How how wide is that one?
[clears throat]
>> As they're looking at that,
it's got a radius so it's impossible.
It's 35 ft wide in the back and it's
probably if you measure it across the
front about 62
» at at the setback
>> it's it's 70 ft but what we do is is
>> the house is approximately 60 ft deep.
So at the rear of the house we maintain
the minimum 60 foot. Good.
>> So if you go 60 ft back we're we're at
60 ft.
>> Okay. So, uh, again, we could work with
the setbacks on lots 54, 55, 56, and 57.
Make those a little larger. Make those
lots a little pull them in a little bit
and and get some additional uh space for
lots 52 and 58 and make them 65 ft each.
We could do that.
>> Okay.
Fair enough. Yeah. Go ahead,
>> M. I mean, that's that's another that's
another answer to the same question. So,
>> all right.
>> Um,
» I don't have any other questions.
>> Just just there's a couple things from
the community that was was brought up.
Um, and that was following following the
rules or changing the rules mid middle
of the game. Um,
[snorts]
Ohio Revised Code 519.12.
I essentially gives you guys the the
ability, any land owner, to amend or
bring forward plans like you're bringing
forward today. Um, so that is kind of
the rule book that that as land owners
and everybody has that right. Um,
>> um, has the township covered any of your
expenses given you have we given any tax
abatements?
>> No.
tax baitments. We do we have we ever
given any tax abatements?
>> No, I've not.
>> No. Okay. I just just to clear up things
in the community because a lot of res a
lot of residents rightfully so place a
lot of frustration and anger with with taxes and and their costs and
associate it to poor judgment decision-m
that maybe goes on um that they perceive
anyway and other communities and and and
so we have to try to be clear about what
it is that we're actually doing. So no,
we've not covered any of your costs, not
giving you any tax incentives. We're not
giving you any tax abatements.
>> Um,
>> and you're following state code and we are following state code by hearing
from you.
>> Okay, I'm good. Thank you.
>> Was was so the traffic count was done.
Was any of it done during the school
year? Because I'll tell you this West
Claremont's not too far from your
location.
This is why everyone's right now it's
not awful on cloth. It's not great, but
it's not awful. But when school opens
up, gosh, is it next week or this week?
Next week. Next week.
We hate Kluff Pike. We hate it. We hate
No one wants to drive on it. So, so when
was the traffic study done and and was
the school taken into account?
>> The school was taken into account, but I
cannot tell you when the traffic I was
not the traffic engineer for the
project. So, I cannot tell you when it
was done. I I if I had to say, I'd say
it was not done during during schools in
session.
>> Okay. And West Clara doesn't have busing
at the high school. No.
>> So more cars if they use like a average.
>> Okay. Okay. Perfect. I think that's all
the questions that we have. Anything
else?
>> Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Okay. Thank
you, gentlemen, very much.
>> Thank you. Thanks, guys.
» Okay. All right. Last call. Is there
anyone else that like to speak on this
before we we discuss and vote? Okay.
Come on up, sir. Please. Go ahead.
All right. Do you resto tell the truth,
the whole truth and about the truth? So
hope you got it.
>> Yes, I do.
>> And then just uh clearly state your name
and address for the record.
>> Uh Chris Miller, 1072 Rid Point.
>> Um one thing I wanted to bring up just
real quickly is um we're talking about
how the traffic is bad on club. Um I
exit out of Buck Buckton, out of our
neighborhood all the time. And it's just
as bad during school when people it's
lined up all the way past Shaylor. Uh
people going in and out of the the
neighborhood. you can't make a left turn
out of there. Same thing with rush hour
in the morning. So, um, as far as the
traffic being, um, you know, heavier on
Cl or heavier on Buck Buckton, I think
it's equal because I drive that road
every single day during rush hour and
it's extremely busy and backed up. I
mean, you can be backed up all the way
to Cleer on rush hour. Okay? So, um, I
just want to let you know that, you
know, having this plan there. I like
this plan with the court. You're having
at least seven homes there that are
exiting out our Buck Buckton way and the
rest of the people will be exiting out
of club. Now, it is tough both ways
during the course of the day.
>> Just want to make that point, make that
point clear because I I know we're not
talking about Buck Buckton much, but
it's just as bad on Buck Buckton during
the school day.
>> Fair enough. Yeah. Appreciate you. Thank
you, sir. Thank you.
Okay. Is there anyone else?
>> You you you want to talk or no?
>> Oh, okay.
>> No sweat. Okay.
>> The uh it's okay. Is there anyone else
before I close public hearing?
>> Yeah. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. No, you got to
come to the podium, please. Come on.
» How can we do a traffic study and nobody
knows what it said?
>> Well, we know what it says. We just
don't know what time of the year they
took it.
>> July.
>> I mean,
>> July this month. Okay. July. Okay.
>> And And I mean, really, we're asking
questions about the traffic study and
they're like, "Well, we don't know. We
don't know. I just think we should have
more information on that."
>> No. Yeah. I I I get it. I get it. They
Yeah, I I understand. So, Mr. Phil, so
>> there's not a lot of information there.
>> So, with the traffic study, no one in
this room is a traffic engineer,
>> right? The county engineer is the
traffic engineer. The county engineer
has looked at the traffic study. So they
have a certified traffic engineer that
provides the county with a study. This
is how it typically goes. The county
looks at it. They look at the
assumptions. They look at the volumes.
Sometimes when they do a traffic study,
they will take actual numbers and then
they will take background traffic
volumes and they have those counts. They
pull from OKI, they pull from ODOT, they
pull from local county counts. And then
they make assumptions based on the
behavior of the existing traffic and
then based on the proposed traffic and
then they forward that to the county
engineers office. County engineers
office looks at that and makes a
determination as to whether additional
improvements are needed or not needed.
And that usually there's a threshold
depending on existing traffic, existing
subdivision u whether it makes a
connection or not. the traffic
assumptions that are that are coming
from the new development and that's
where they make a determination as to
whether additional improvements are
required specific to that project.
>> And so they said no addition
>> the county said this configuration
results in no additional improvements.
» Hold up. Mr. M, you got to come up here
and talk if you want to talk.
>> It's okay. How come there was never a
counter on the road?
>> Well, so a couple of reasons. So the
county already has counts related to
Bach Buckton and Shaylor because they've
had to study all this area for the Bach
Bucks and Shaylor roundabout projects
which are supposed to hopefully let
in 27. And I think there's been public
comment period. They've had that open
for public comment. I know the county
asked us about some fire and AMS
concerns about that project, about
access and whatever. So, they're working
through that federally prescribed
process. So, the county has counts. They
have existing traffic counts. They take
traffic counts throughout the year. When
I work for the city of Leland, they had
traffic counts,
>> but not on that stretch.
>> No, no, no. They have traffic counts on
all parts of the road. They have a very
sophisticated data set. The county looks
at traffic all the time. They count it.
OKI counts it. ODOT counts it. County
engineer counts it. The And the other
thing is the counters. Are you thinking
about the little strips?
>> Yeah.
>> They don't use those anymore. They use
camera counters. They're like laser
[clears throat] beam
>> counters cameras.
>> You wouldn't see them. They're very
small.
>> Very small.
>> They don't use Those are old school. I
I'm with you. When I see those, those
are old traffic counters. I tell you
what,
>> the strips,
>> my grandparents have owned that house
that I live in since I was 14 years old.
I sit on that porch.
Well, pardon me, since I was 12.
I'm 64 years old. I can do any traffic
study better than any of you.
[clears throat]
And that is the most dangerous
stretch of road I've ever seen.
And
uh I've never seen a camera. I have
never seen a leprechaun out there
counting.
Okay.
And looking up at this, you only got one
way in off cluff,
no way out. you let a uh a gas leak or
something and that subdivision needs to
get out of there quickly. Best of luck.
There's no way to evacuate.
And he says, "Oh, I've got to cut 12
feet.
Uh shave it down." I thought he was an
engineer.
>> I'm not being sarcastic.
>> It's okay. That's okay. He's got 12 feet
to cut down
>> to go on Shaylor. I mean, I'm getting a
little upset here.
>> I got 11 grandb babies.
We got people on that street.
That's dangerous.
Chief,
I hope you get two two officers out
there like you did at Glenn Esby High
School because we need [clears throat]
» Okay. Is there any other discuss
right
now people with this being 350 ft from
the traffic light they're blasting
through there they're trying to make the
traffic light
>> in both directions 50 55 it's like
pulling out on a 32
>> when
>> so you're exactly right if the speed
lower a little bit
as dangerous
Okay. All right. Is there anyone else?
Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. All
right. The uh Hold on. I lost my agenda. All right. There we go. Okay.
Uh, gentlemen, entertain a motion to
close the public hearing for zoning case
3-26-Z
and Zulu.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Mr. Campbell, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker,
>> yes. Mr. Lo,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Dills,
>> yes.
>> Public hearing session is closed at 9:31
p.m.
>> All right. Uh, gentlemen, is now time
for trustee discussion. Uh, vice
chairman, sir.
Mr. Chairman, I
>> already know.
» He knows what I'm going to say.
>> I guess I'm a broken record. I've been
saying it for five years.
I have
never voted for a housing development.
And there's a couple of reasons for
that. One of which a lot of what we
heard tonight, a lot of the grievances,
it's all part of it. Part of it also
is I value our zoning that is er that's
um estate residential.
Was that minimum two acres? I think
estate residential and R1
and I don't want to see that diminished.
So unless there's a compelling reason,
I've never said no never to a zoning
change, I've never said no never to a
housing development.
But in my mind, there's got to be a
compelling reason for me, I guess, to go
against those values that I hold, the
values many of you all hold, and the
platform I ran on when I ran for this
job five years ago.
>> Beautiful. Um
what's that?
>> Nothing. Go ahead.
>> So um you know with that, Mr. Chairman,
I I intend to vote no on this.
>> Mr. Lucer,
um heard a lot of uh
eloquent speakers. Uh tonight I've got
four pages of notes.
um try to balance
uh the state code
of what land owners are able to do with
their land
and bring that forward. Um
you know, I know we've been asked to
basically deny based off of um the
pricing. It's nothing we can set. We
can't determine the pricing. Uh we can't
pick and choose.
uh winners and losers. Um I believe in
American values and uh free market and
uh you know what I what I see what's
presented before us is
um a land owner choosing to do with
their land uh and trying to work with
the community uh where they can um where community members live on their
land. And uh we've seen great um I think
interaction commentary by like Mr.
Schaefer uh very very impacted uh by
this right there on Cliff Pike. Um
and the developer
wanting to work with with Mr. Schaefer
uh for that screenage and and and and
the fencing. Um and uh you know as Mr.
right eloquently spoke,
uh, we are not the traffic engineers. We
don't have the engineering authority.
That is not something that is in our
jurisdiction and power to to be able to
do. Um, other residents here uh may agree or disagree with perspectives,
you know, shared tonight and absolutely
right. there is a statutory
uh pathway to to to follow to referendum
any type of vote and and hear from the
community and I'm all for that. Uh it's
exactly why I was elected and am in in
the position to try to balance the fine
art of governing which is not just black
and white and you don't get to just be
black and white when you're trying to
govern. Um it is um complex at times. Uh
I wish it could just be very simple. Um
same rate I wouldn't want to just give
the land owner a very easy way to come
sue the township and earn costs. That is
also right also taking care of being
conservative values for you the
residents and where time and resources
go. Um so with that it's pretty clear uh
that there's a plan that is
ready to move forward uh tonight um that
has been presented. So I think that's
last of my my my comment uh to it.
>> Mr. Dills. All right. So
Mr. Mr. Mayor, one one question is uh so
Bridge Ridge Point Drive that that
neighborhood right there and then all
the houses to the south of that picture
based off what you said you would you
would vote that down as well. So half
these folks in this room wouldn't have a
home if you were their trustee because
those those uh lot sizes are the same
size and actually they're a little bit
smaller than the culde-sac. Now, the
rest of the homes are a little bit
equal, maybe a little bit more, but the
culde-sac ones are actually a little bit
more than the rest on Rich Point as far
as uh land area. So, you would have
voted all those down to the right to the
south based off your logic.
>> Yeah, they would have vote they would
have built it on R1 instead.
>> True. Yeah. Which would they have been
able to afford it at the time based off
that because obviously more land, more cost. So, um
>> more parking on the street.
>> That's true. Yeah, that's true. the uh so I'll say uh I've said this uh
almost every time we have a housing
development come in whether it be multif
family or in this case single family
residential um uh one thing that when it
comes to housing uh Mr. Becker and I and
of course Mr. We we all agree that we we
do not like multif family. We don't we don't unless it's a a mixeduse
and there's only one apartment that I've
voted yes on. It was because it was
mixed use meaning first floor retail and
second floor apartment buildings. Um
that's the only way I would ever be
considerate uh right now at this point.
And so um you know when we got elected
residents said we need more middle class
single family residential homes. That
that's been clear. Um and it sounds like
there isn't really that many people
against this development. It's just the
fact that it exits out on Kluff Pike,
which I happen to agree with everyone
because I drive Kluff Pike twice every
day myself. Uh so, um
yeah, and it's unfortunate because with
pre precoid, uh 200 to 250,000 was your
average middle class nice house and that
250,000 has now become gosh 450 500,000.
So, um but this isn't going to attract
riffraff. the I mean, you're not going
to buy a $500,000 house and cause
problems in the township. You're just
not. This isn't affordable housing, uh,
meaning section 8. Uh, it's it's it's,
uh, it's a good development. I I do hate
the fact that it's on cluff. I hate
that. Hate it. Capital H. Hate it. I
don't like it at all. Um, but it is a
good development. Uh, so, uh, gentlemen,
I both want you to hear this. As far as
this, uh, I'm going to need, uh, I'm
going to put in here my contingencies
that Lot 52 and lot 58 need to be 65 ft
wide. I'm also going to include that,
uh, they need to pay for Mr. Schaer's
fence, uh, incomplete, uh, completely.
So, just so you know, doesn't affect
you, Mr. Becker, but just, so, you know,
um, [clears throat]
>> well, the motion would
>> Yeah. Yeah. Say it again.
>> When you wrap up one comment question,
» Yeah. That's all I got.
Mr. Wright, is there a pathway for the
developer to pursue a special assessment
on these homes? I don't know if it would
generate enough for traffic improvements
on Cliff Pike, but
so the answer is maybe. Um, you know, it
all has to do with the amount of the
construction cost and I know there have
been other neighborhoods where a special
assessment district has been formed.
Again, for the benefit of the audience,
a special assessment district means the
people in the development are paying
extra. They're paying more into a
special assessment district over a
period of time to either backs stop
bonds or reimburse expenditures or to
provide funding for future improvements.
And so there is that mechanism. Um,
>> do we do that before and after? It's an
after the fact.
>> It's after the fact. It's it would not
be really germanine issue, but there are
>> there are avenues if if the developer
wanted to do that.
>> Um, okay.
>> Road improvements are very expensive. I
will just tell you they're
>> I I
don't remember the number for the lock
bucks and roundabouts, but they're
creeping up on $12 million.
>> So, that gives you an idea. So,
um, what I will say before we wrap up
is, uh, I I don't want one single
complaint from the two neighbors living
next to lot number 58, lot number 52,
uh, at all. Uh, I appreciate you putting
the culde-sac in. I think that appease
the folks at Ridge Point. Um,
yeah. Okay, we good. Okay. All right,
gentlemen. I'll entertain a motion for
the approval of Union Township zoning
case 3-26-Z is in Zulu uh with
modifications as recommended including
uh lot 52 lot 58 uh 65 ft wide and a
fence fully paid for for Mr. Schaefer.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Uh any further discussion? Mr. Campbell.
Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> No.
>> Mr. Log.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> Okay. Uh moving on to our second zoning
case of the night. Uh, it'll be Union
Township zoning case 4-26-ZOU
and uh, Mr. Flowy, you're up. Go ahead.
Oh, we'll wait to wait till they folks
exit.
[clears throat]
» Okay,
get ready for round two.
>> Okay, I think that's good. Okay, go
ahead. Go ahead, Mr.
>> Thank you, Mr. Dills. This is for a
zoning map amendment for 4-26-Z.
It's called Bishop's Grove subdivision.
The applicant has submitted an
application requesting that two parcels
totaling 4.77 acres be reszoned from R2
single family detach residential
district to the R4
family variable residential district in
order to allow for the proposed concept
plan subdivision development consisting
of 18 lots for single family dwelling
units, landscaping elements, greening,
entry monument signage, and open spaces.
Some land use and zoning
characteristics. The current land uses
in the vicinity are are mostly
consistent of residential uses with the
exception of some institutional uses
such as the church across the street and
Crocker auto parts the west. All
adjacent parcels consisting of the R2
family detached residential in the area.
The adjacent Willowbrook and Shepardwood
subdivisions consist of lots with an
average width of 70 ft and a depth of
130 ft. With the horizon 2030 land use
plan indicates the proposed development
is not located in a designated corridor.
However, the R4 district allows for
creative design yielding the greatest
green space in retaining vegetation
compared to the traditional zoning. The
square the single family dwelling
densities are up to four units per acre
and the proposal readily achieves that
through a density of 3.77
units an acre.
Moving with some background information.
The subject properties have been located
in the R2 districts since the
institution of zoning in 1959. The
principal structure was built in 1937
according to the auditor's site and has
several nonconformities. In addition,
these properties have been in violation
of the zoning resolution multiple times
in the recent past and has been resolved
by the zoning inspector. Some staff
review and analysis of the application
shows that the proposal yields the
zoning map and conceptual plans are
consistent with the R4 district
regulations and adopted single family
use recommendations. The there are 18
single family housing lots located on
located within this subdivision with a
width of an average lot of 50 ft at the
building lot setback line and 100 ft in
depths. Some of the open space there are
four additional lots to be dedicated
totaling approximately 1.39 acres or
29.2% 2% of the total site to be
maintained by the HOA.
Uh landscaping, buffering, screening,
and pedestrian access is included with a
36 inch high mound consisting of white
and white and pine trees and has been
proposed along the adjacent properties
to the north and south.
The areas that have been in indicated
here as uh with vegetation should be
labeled as preserved. The installation
of a sidewalk should be along both sides
of Bishop's Way and along the Shephard
Road as consistent with the 2030 plan
goals. Some lot configuration and
orientation. A minimum setback should be
set for the proposed lot to ensure
enforcement with the zoning is
consistent throughout and a signage
package should be submitted so the
proposed monument signage can be in
accordance with article 9 of the zoning
resolution.
The zoning commission recommended
approval for the site with seven
modifications. This was unanimous in
case number 4-26-Z
and the action required tonight is in
accordance with section 650 through 659
of the zoning resolution that the board
of trustees is to enter a motion to
approve as recommended by the zoning
commission approve with additional
modifications or deny the zoning map
amendment in accompanying concept plan
as presented in Union Township zoning
case 4-26-Z
And that concludes my report.
>> John, Mr. Floody. Um, by the way, for
all all you folks that have been waiting
for this zoning case, just apologies um
for the delay as far as how long it
took. But no matter what, I like to get
every single person a chance to voice
their thoughts. Uh, so for what it's
worth. Uh, okay. Uh, uh, vice chairman,
any questions for Mr. Flouty?
>> No. [clears throat]
>> No, I'm good.
>> Mr. Lo,
>> no, I'm good. Thank you.
>> Uh, Mr. Flouty, you mentioned HOA. Is
that a new HOA or is it going to be a
part of the existing neighborhood there?
>> It would be a separate HOA for this
subdivision alone. It would be created
in the deeds and covetants for for these
two properties in in whole.
>> Perfect. And then uh the the houses to
the left and houses underneath ballpark.
What are those average uh on on those
lots?
>> The the existing homes, those are in the
R2. So they would be around the quarter of an acre lot. Yes. Correct.
>> All right. Got Okay. That's all I got.
Okay. Uh gentlemen entertain a motion to
open up public hearings zoning case uh
4-26-Z is in Zulu.
>> So moved. Second.
>> All right. Any discussion? Mr. Campbell.
Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes. Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Public hearing is open at 9:47 p.m.
>> All right. And first thing is we usually
have the proponent up. So to be the
developer, uh, if you'd like to come on
up
and then I will swear you in. All right.
You swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, nothing but the truth. So help
God.
>> I do.
>> Great. Uh, name and address for record,
sir.
>> Tyler Gibbs, Maddox Development. Address
is 4026
Bach Buckston Road, Matav, Ohio 45103.
>> Michigan. Would you get all that?
>> I got it.
>> Perfect. Okay, go ahead.
>> Oh, I do have a card. If you
>> I'll take that, too. Um, I'll give it to
you after.
>> Okay.
>> So, Maddox, a little bit history of
Maddox Development. Maddox Development
is local to Union Township. Uh, we're
located on Bach Buckton Road. Um, own
several commercial properties uh in this
township, including the building that we
worked out of in the Kennedy Land, the
shops at Kennedy's Landing. Um, Maddox
Development is also responsible for
building several truly affordable houses
in this township in the last since 2018.
Um, some of those houses are on their
second owner. Um, and they sold for 335.
We sold them for 315. Um, Maddox
Development is not the the builder in
this case. Uh, we are developing it for
other builders.
Um, so what Maddox Development looks for
is they look for we look for infill
lots. Um, you know,
for example, we did on traction lane
over by Speedway on Traction Lane,
there's an infill lot there. We split it
into two and put two houses on it. We
also look for um
uh troubled properties, I guess you
could say, houses that may have burnt
down that we can tear down, rebuild, and
redevelop. So, that's kind of our
specialty. Um, and so this particular
lot came up. We I let it be for sale. It
was for sale for two weeks before I looked at it. Um,
it was still available. So, we looked at
it and this particular lot fits all of
our requirements that we looked for in a development. It is the house is is
abandoned. There's nobody living in it.
As Craig said, there's been several
zoning uh issues with this lot in the in
the past few years that have been
resolved. Um but
uh you know that this is what we look
for. We we look for these kind of lots
and clean it up a little bit. So um we
came up with a pretty decent site plan.
I you know if you ask me I might be
biased. Um 18 lots. It is currently
zoned R2. So the density is a quarter
acre per lot which in this case would be
20 houses or so. Um and so we hit 18.
And we also um were able to design this
to have green space all the way around
the entire perimeter there, the backside
and the uh I believe that's the west
with a mound.
We have a green space in the middle with
a gazebo um obviously a monument sign.
We have two retention ponds and one
detention pond um to help with drainage
in the area. It's a relatively flat lot
and um and so Carl Hartman, he could not
be here tonight. he fell ill earlier
today and uh but he he has drawn up a a
very good site plan for this uh for this
lot. So um that's all I have for right
now. Want to answer some questions?
>> Mr. Fresher.
>> No, Mr. Lugs.
» Mr. Gibbs. Uh
>> Maddox is my middle name. the uh
regardless how the vote turns out uh you
know appreciate you investing in the
township as because you own Kenny's
Landing and also your other business is
located here as well, right?
>> Yeah, we uh we're located on Bach Bucks
and we also own the building that we're
in on Bucks, the old KUP electric
building.
>> Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate your
investment here in the township. Yeah.
Thank you very much. But uh no questions
for me at the time. Appreciate. Yeah.
Thank you, sir.
>> Okay. Is there anyone else that's a
proponent of this case? Uh for this
case?
>> Yes.
>> Oh, please. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Please come on up. Yes.
All right. Got it.
» All right. Appreciate it.
>> Thank you.
>> Appreciate you. All right. Let me let me
go swear you in.
>> All right. You swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth. Anything about the
truth. So have you got I do. Great.
Lor's yours, sir.
>> My name is David Lamb. Uh my address is
1192
Emery Ridge Drive. That is a Bavia
address. Uh I am speaking tonight um
from the perspective of the family
trying to sell the property.
So I am the son of one of six siblings
who inherited the property when my
grandmother died in 1995.
>> We have been through about 10 years of
probate complications.
We just reached the point this winter
where we could list the property. the
family is not in a position to maintain
the property. We are aware that the
house on that property is an eyesore,
that some of the other debris on the
property is is not only an eyesore, but
it's a safety hazard if anybody
trespasses. We know that for the good of
the community, this property needs to
move on. The family's not capable. Um,
so from a sellers's perspective,
we're looking for support in moving this
property and letting everybody in that
community move on. Um,
two weeks ago was the zoning committee
hearing. We heard a number of different
concerns from the local the neighbors of
the area. One of them was traffic. I
think this this uh the trustees have
established the traffic concerns are
more in the county's area. So I would
say, you know, any concerns with traffic
kind of be deferred. I would, you know,
I'd hope they would go. The other
concern was related to the use of the
property. One of the things I learned in
the zoning and and it's funny, we've had
a lot of conversation about R1, R2, R4.
These are things that are foreign to any
of us, you know, that don't deal with
properties.
>> One of the things I learned in the
zoning committee meeting was
that the plan that the developer has
come up with actually meets the density
requirements for I think it's the R2
rating, the current rating. So, even
though they're applying for R4, the the
density rating when you factor in the
green space actually still meets the
current uh zoning for that property. And
I I can defer to the zoning committee
for clarification on that. I'm by no
means an expert on that. So what I'm is from the seller's
perspective is, you know, we have a need
to move the property. We're looking for
improvements for everybody on Shepard
Road and that as long as the density
requirements, the zoning requirements
are are met, we're hoping there's no
obstruction to selling this property.
One last point I want to make just just
noting it. I believe I assume that a
petition that was turned into the zoning
committee with about 125 signatures
um was pulled together by one of the
competing biders. We also learned in the
zoning committee meeting that the
information that was given to a lot of
the signees at the time, not
intentionally, but because of a
misunderstanding of zoning, a lot of the
people that signed that petition may not
have gotten accurate accurate
information on the zoning rules.
But my concern is is that the person
driving that petition
could be using that to keep the sale
open and prevent the sale to the current
developer. With that, I'll close.
>> Fair enough. Yeah. And then did you have
any questions for Mr. Lamb?
>> No.
>> Any questions for Mr. Lamb?
>> Uh, not apparently.
>> Appreciate you speak. And by by the way,
uh, sorry for your grandmother in her
passing, by the way, Mr. Lamb. The, uh,
Okay. Is there anyone else that is for
this case that is a proponent. All
right. Seeing none, I can kind of tell
where the room's at. So, [laughter]
the Okay. Yeah. Uh is there is
>> wedding
>> the uh if anyone that that is an
opponent of this case that is against
this case uh you please come on up sir.
Yeah.
And uh
this is right.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Okay. Do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and both the truth
shall be God?
>> I do.
>> Great. And then go and state your name
for that. Uh, excuse me, Justin Burch,
997 Shepardwoods Court. Um, first things
first, uh, I just want to say, uh, thank
you, Mr. Dills, for allowing everybody
to come up and speak. I know it's late,
pushing 10:00. Um, I have been getting
texts, uh, Mr. Wright, saying they were
hearing you uh, ask Mr. Dills to wrap
this up, which you responded. It's their
right. So, thank you for that.
>> Absolutely. Thank you, sir.
>> Uh, good evening. I'm here tonight to
voice the collective concerns of many
residents regarding the proposed zoning
uh reszoning from R2 to R4 on Shepard
Road.
While we understand the need for the
growth, development development must be
harmonious with the established
character of our community. One concern
is the unprecedented increase in
density. Currently the small private
areas along Shepard Road average just
four homes each. So when you off
Tealtown all the way down it's about
four homes on each one of the offshoots
of that if that makes sense. It does.
>> Uh this proposal calls for new 18 home
development. This isn't just a minor
increase. um myself and those back on
Willowville um and many residents down
Sheperwood's Court uh it will feel like
a mini Brooklyn dropped right in our
backyard
uh which is completely out of step with
the existing neighborhoods down Shepard
Road. Another major concern is the loss
of privacy right now. lot of mature
trees, natural brush, provide a buffer
between our homes, this property,
um, and the Willowbrook community behind
us. This development would remove most
trees and a three-foot tall burm around
the perimeter. This burm simply will not
replace decades of mature trees that
currently provide any sort of privacy
for residents all around.
Uh approximately 21 existing homes
including 12 on Locust uh Grove Court,
seven on Sheperwoods Court and two on
Sheper Road, we'll see our privacy
significantly decreased
with this potential to reszone to R4
allowing more flexibility of homes on
their respective lot. these new new
homes um won't have to adhere to the
setbacks of the 30 feet uh 30 feet and
10 feet respectively uh per the zoning
documents that are online potentially
putting new homes even closer to our
existing properties diminishing the
privacy that is already in danger.
Um we're also worried about traffic and
safety. The road leading to this
development is narrow, has no sidewalks,
and there is only one entrance and exit.
Um, one note that I do have, I've
already had to spend over $200 uh
because my wife was forced off the edge
of the road um years ago hitting a trash
can that was out there because it was so
narrow.
>> Is it is that on Shepard?
>> That's on Shepard Road. Yes.
Um, and a side note with that, many
times we're constantly pulling over to
allow cars to pass.
Um
so family, children, walkers, cyclists,
we all use this road. Uh increased
traffic creates additional safety
concerns. Uh we also need to consider
the impact of the consider uh excuse me,
consider continued residential
development on the West Claremont School
District. It seems there has been a
recent shift in Union Township toward
fitting as many residential communities
as possible into smaller pieces of
property. But if we stop to consider the
cumulative impact impact of that growth
on our schools, 18 additional homes may
seem like a small number when considered
on their own, but when combined with
other new developments, these homes mean
additional students to the West
Claremont School District. This affects
class sizes, classroom space, staffing,
transportation, and other school
resources. We urge the the trustees to
deny the reasonzoning request. We're not
against the development, bar none.
Period. Full stop. We're not against it.
What we're against is shoving 18 homes
into a 3.7 acre lot
on a already narrow road to bring if
there's 18 at least two cars for
husband, wife, partner, spouse. Now
you're up to 36. They started having
children. You're you're climbing way up
very quickly. Again, on a very narrow
road already. Um, and I would like to
just say during snowstorms, plows don't
really come down Shepherd Road very
often. Um, there are some low spots,
there's a lot of ice,
it it it gets uh pretty dangerous at
times, and I'm not just trying to
exaggerate that either. Um, we we do
agree that the the current property is
an eyesore. Full stop. We we we agree
with that. Um, but again, it feels like
the goal is just to cram as many uh
homes as possible. Um, I'm sorry, I
misspoke. I said 3.7 earlier. Um, as
many homes as possible into a 4.7 acre
property to maximize the profits of the
developer that doesn't live in the
community.
Um, current currently there is a privacy
fence, a sixoot wooden privacy fence.
Um, that is
C.
>> Craig, can you pull up a better picture
of that? Yeah. On the aerial. Thank you.
>> Um once you turn into well to the if
you're staring at Bishop's house, which
is the top right corner, um little white
building to the right of that, there is
a 6-ft wooden privacy fence that is
constantly falling down, uh currently.
So, uh, one thing that we
are worried about is what's going to
happen with that fence all the way down,
uh, that privacy fence. It then turns
into barbwire fence that comes down my
property,
neighbors property, another piece of
property, and then around to the private
drive.
Who's going to take care of that? Is
there going to be another fence? What is
that going to uh what's that going to
look like?
>> And all this, Mr. patrol this fence
you're talking about is that on the
existing property right now
>> that is on the existing property that's
correct
>> all right
um
in the
last couple things I do want to say um
we have spoken with people that know the
developer they're even against it um and
uh we also know people personally that
have put bids in on the property um that
were denied
whatever it doesn't matter. Um, I just
want to say or have that on the record
that other people are bidding on this
that they were just going to have it as
a single family lot. They were going to
use it for green space. They were going
to build a home on it. Um, not turn this
into again a mini Brooklyn.
Um, and then
the really the only question that
[clears throat] I have
is, uh, what are the setbacks on the
home if this hypothetically did get
reszoned to an R4?
» Mr. F, you want to answer that one?
>> Yeah. So, looking at the plan, let me
pull out the report here.
The setbacks for the holes would be the
minimum fret yard setbacks of all
proposed lots should be 25 foot. The
minimum rear yard setbacks of the
proposed lot should be 15 ft. This
combined with a landscape buffer. So the
landscape buffer to the rear of this. So
you can see that along through there
makes a combination for roughly 30 feet
in combined setbacks.
So from the very the the property line
to the house would be 30 ft.
>> So if you're looking at it here, this
would roughly be
keep it contingent with 15. So you have
15 roughly and another 15 to get 30 in
there. And then the front would be
combined to have a standard of 25 ft.
>> What about Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean
to cut you off. So you can kind of see
within this plan how all the setbacks
vary those dash lines. We just keep a
standard setback there of 25 ft from the
front, 15 from the rear with the
additional 15 ft in the back to make a
total of 30 in. Sorry, what was your
question? Uh what about the lots that
are smaller on the right hand or excuse
me on the lefthand side around the
culde-sac and then also on the far right
hand side heading back towards that
>> I can't see
they've got So, this one here,
the mouse, we've got 30 feet. Here we've
got 25 ft, 20 ft, 25 ft, 20 ft. So, roughly, and then you
have the buffering of
the mound throughout here. What about on
the side where the the burm is on the
far right side? See a little strip and
then
>> Yeah. So, this one's
10 15 and then the mound in between
there.
>> And how how wide is that mound?
the mound would be so we know it's 36 in
high and then it would roughly be um
it would roughly be let's see here I
would say what four four feet in width
to offset you know you can't have it too
steep otherwise yeah it just erode
through there so
>> so about either 14 to 19 feet from the
burm or from the the property line where
the burm would
end for that development to the back of
the house of a of one of the developed
homes.
>> Am I understand that correctly? It' be
between 14 and 15 ft on that side.
» Yes, it looks like it's 10 feet and then
the width which is Yeah, I would say
roughly around 10. So, we'd be at 20 at
20 feet 20T around there. Yeah.
Thank you. That's one second. Mr. B, Mr.
Becker, any questions?
>> I do. Uh, and Mr. Flouty might want to
chime in on on this as well. So, I'm
very familiar with Shepherd Road. I've
even picked up garbage along it the
whole stretch all the way down. Now, as
the chairman pointed out, the area is
zoned R2, but is it my imagination
or are even though it's zoned R2,
most of lots are much larger than a
minimum for R2?
Do they know the answer to that?
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. These these lots are smaller than a
typical R2. What's made up with this?
>> I'm talking about the current Sheepard
Road
>> hubs. Yeah, Shepard Road. If you look at
the zoning map, the properties around
are R2.
>> Yeah, but that wasn't my question.
[laughter]
>> Are you saying the lots around it are
smaller, bigger? Is that your question?
>> I'm saying although they're zoned. So, you know, prior to this, I was
spending some time looking real hard at
the at the schematics of of, you know,
the the the property sizes. It appeared
to me, although it's R2, a lot of these
properties are much larger than the
minimum for an R2.
>> Mr. Becker, if I could, I' I've been
here a while.
>> Uh, I've looked at probably
300 subdivision plats in my career,
minimum.
So, those lots, that's Shephard Road. If
you look at the yellow there, and then
uh you kind of see the curve where the
lots sort of uh they sort of line up,
they don't line up there. You can kind
of see Shephard there. And you see the
frontage there. Those lots to the south
there. Those are approximately with the
exception of that one weird shaped lot.
You guys see it? There's two larger lots
and then kind of a
>> I don't even know.
>> So, put put your put your mouse on the
curve there.
>> Yeah. So, those are probably those two
lots there next to it are probably
somewhere between a third of an acre and
a half an acre. And then that weird
little you see that one that looks sort
of squareish with the corner cut off of
it. That might be a little over between
a quarter and a third. And then those
lots along the frontage to the south,
those are quarteracre lots. Those are R1
lots. The lots in Blackberry and all
that, those are are R2 lots. I'm sorry.
We got We've talked R1, R2, R4. I'm are
I'm
>> all the ones there on the curve are are
R2 which are quarteracre lots.
>> Yeah, those small lots on the bottom of
the picture there on the bottom right.
Those are quarteracre lots.
>> You don't see it very clearly.
>> I I feel like the maybe I'm wrong. I
feel like the question was about how
many houses per acre.
>> Yeah, it's four R2 is four units an
acre. And he asked what size are the
lots on Shepard? And I think the answer
is it's all over the map. You have large
lots, you have small lots. Yeah. In this
particular area, you have some you have
some quarter acre lots, and then
literally across the street got two and
three acre parcels.
>> And I think that's what I was looking
for. It's all over the map.
>> Yeah.
>> All right.
>> Above the minimum.
>> Yeah. Mr.
>> Because they're building above the
minimum.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh Mr. Look, any questions for Mr. M?
>> No.
>> I I'll tell I'll say this to you and I I should have probably said this the
previous one, but it didn't come up. You brought up uh West Claremont
schools. Y'all can bring up West
Claremont schools. We however are not
allowed to. Now in our brain we can
think whatever we want but we cannot
speak about making a decision based off
anything and take the schools into
account that's out of our purview. We're
not allowed to. So we might think it.
Yeah.
>> And but but regardless we cannot talk
about oh overcrowding the schools
therefore I'm going to vote no. I just
broke the rules and I can't do that.
Just just so you know. So you all can
but we cannot. So for what it's worth.
So Mr. Burch good job. Appreciate you
very much. Yeah. Thank you. And then uh
hey uh Mr. Taylor, will you take note
that Shephard uh he's saying it's too
narrow. Uh if we could somehow put that
in the budget in the future. I don't
know what when, but in the future. Also
snow plows as well. Have you heard that?
Just saying, "Hey, the street doesn't
get as plowed as much as it should." I
don't know. I don't live on Shepard, but
still just uh just just check it out.
>> All good. Thank you, Mr. B. Appreciate
you.
>> Okay. Is there anyone else that is an
opponent of this case that's against
this case that like to talk? Yes, miss.
I saw you first and then sir, I saw you
getting ready to get up. I'll call you
on next. But no, Miss Come on up. You're
first.
All right. Oh, very nice of you, Mr.
Campbell. Appreciate that. All right.
Let me swear you in.
Okay. Do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and but the truth of be
God?
>> I do.
>> Great. Floor is yours, Mr. Name and
address for the record.
>> Um, my name is Tanya uh Buts Hamilton. I
live at 4733 Shepard Road. And um I a
lot of my questions were already
answered just listening to what other
people said and what your response was
to it. Um but first let me say I'm not
opposed to development there. I'm just
opposed to the R for development there.
Um one of the problems I found when I
went to the zoning meeting is they tried
to tell us that their rationale be
behind it being
acceptable to go to R4 was that the the
population density would be the same as
if it was developed as R2. They tried to
say that 20 houses would go in on R2 or
could. And I said, you know, I I I
actually wrote a letter to each of the uh trustees. I don't know if you got
them, but I said, you know, just suppose
I'm a developer.
I would also have to allow access road
and a drainage right I said so I try to
say that at most they're probably going
to get 12 houses in maybe depending on
upon the configuration of that lot maybe
even as low as 10 so the argument that
they gave us that that 18 was better
than 20 actually is more in our favor
that 18 isn't as good as 10 you know so
and I do my lot is two acres the uh the
lady who lives behind me, uh, hers is
12.43
acres and that butts up against the
Cincinnati Nature Center. One of my
greatest concerns was the decision
decisions that you make on this lot, how
is that going to affect all the other
green spaces and developments back
sheepard in the future? Now I know that
doesn't set a precedence because you
have to take each lot into consideration
on its own merits or its own what topog
you know um but if you allow this R4 to
go into place it's got to make
somebody's argument easier in the future
for saying well you've done it before
you did it up here look at the number
just like you were asking how big are
the existing lots well somebody's going
to say how big are the existing lots I'm
one of the people that actually brought this to the attention of the
Cincinnati Nature Center and they seemed
to be quite interested in it and um I
used to know Bob TR and he had told me a
story about one acre of land that his
client had that was undevelopable he
said and they wanted him to approach the
nature center and see if they were
interested purchasing it and he said oh
I didn't think they would be interested
but they were he says anything that that
prevents future development helps to
prevent future groundwater contamination
and maintain their ecosystem. Now, are
where we're at there, we are right on
the nature center. So, the things that
you do here, might they influence things
in the future? And you know, my dad
played at the nature center when he was
a kid. We're talking 70ome years ago.
So, 50 years from now is not
inconceivable. And you would hate to say
50 years from now, boy, I wish we
wouldn't have allowed this much
development to go in around the nature
center, you know, but it's not too late
to make that decision now. Now, some of
those lots are actually almost a tenth
of an acre. You know, you also have the
uh uh Shephard Wood, I believe is the
name of the subdivision that is just
beyond it. And those are some pretty
nice houses that went in back there. Um
uh that letter I also made sure we
distributed it to all those people
because I thought they wouldn't be too
appreciative to know that a a lower
income housing may be going in, you
know, up the street. Now, when I
initially they told us I had heard that
it was going to be like 260,000
was going to be the approximate value of
those houses that were going in. And um
luckily I got to speak with Tyler Gibbs
at the break we had which he real nice
guy. Um and I'm not again I'm not
opposed to development and I'm not
opposed to him being successful. From
what I understand, his purchase of that
property, and I can't swear to this
because I haven't seen the contract, is
contingent upon the changing of the
zoning. There's also other offers on
this property to the owner, seller of
that property, which would then clean up
that house that's there. So, that isn't
Yeah. shouldn't sway one way or another.
Um, so if he were not to if you were not
to change the zoning, he isn't out
anything. he's just got to look for
another property that's going to meet
the criteria and the zoning of whatever
he wishes to make the profit margin that
they'd like to on. Um now then I heard
earlier they were saying for $300 to
$500,000 homes. Who's going to buy a
$500,000
home on a 10th acre lot on Shephard
Road? I think that was uh yeah, somebody
that doesn't sound accurate to me. Um
and so
you know I also question the
infrastructure on that road you know not
just the how wide it is because it is
narrow um is we have had so much repair
of the water sewer lines constantly
redigging up there because it's all old
you know and so you're adding more
development into it and and because
we've already called them like five
times to come out with a sewage leakage
that they've redone dug up right in
front of my house. You I'm all the way
back around the corner. If you go there
on the the pretty blue house on the the
left hand side and that was my
grandfather's house. I've lived there,
caught the bus there my entire life. And one older gentleman here had said
something about they put, you know, they
zoned it for a reason. Who decides that
now we don't want to maintain the
zoning? Um, and I understand developing
[clears throat] and but it's it's zoned,
you know, I don't see the benefit of of
going to R4, you know, other than it
benefiting the developer that he's going
to make the profit margin that he's
looking for. It's certainly not develop,
you know, helping me, my family. Uh, you
know, if it I just put an $80,000 room
addition on my house back there and
it's, you know, my kids are going to
inherit this, my grandkids, and yeah,
this affects the future. So, um I I know
that and I can't say that, but that that
particular company in question that was
buying this also worked with the Chamber
of Commerce on a lot of different
projects. He even helped on developing
their offices. There's on his website
the Chamber of Commerce is saying,
"Thank you for helping us, you know,
with the developing of." So, it just
makes you wonder, you know, does he know
somebody so he's got a better chance to
get this to persuade you that way. I
certainly hope not, you know. Um, and
then also, um, oh, there was one other
thing I was going to the the property
values, you know, if they go in, it's
going to affect all of us, uh, over the
next 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. Um
and um oh and and just one other little
comment that I wanted to make about how
we all got notified about this and uh if
it wouldn't have been somebody coming
around and trying to sign a petition
because there was 125 names on it and um
I wouldn't have known about it and and
they did stay within their guidelines
that they had to notify the people that
were adjacent and across the street and
whatever. But I also found out that
Kevin Syler got a letter and he lives
down even further down the road than I
did. So, how is it that he got a letter
of notification, but I didn't? Are you
picking and choosing who you're giving
them to? I mean, that kind of lends
itself to think that there's impropriy
to that. I mean, was it overlooked? Was
it uh, you know, neglect? Was it got
lost in the mail? Uh, or is somebody
doing something that they didn't want
everybody to get jump on board with
this? because I think or what I'm saying
is in the future I think that if it's
going to affect everyone on that street, should have
received notification and they did not.
So, and so that means I think that not
just this one, any other one. Is there a
way to change that so that if it, you
know, everybody that lives on that
residential street if there's zoning on
it being changed, I think everybody on
that residential [clears throat] street
should receive.
>> We hear you on that.
>> That's my recommendation for future.
That was that was one thing this board
was able to take initial action on um
was exactly that concept because it it
did used to just be the adjacent
property and we
>> we pushed for it to be widely expanded.
>> Yes.
>> Uh so that people do receive letters and
that signage goes out. There should be
the postings that are out.
>> Um and so that I mean that's that's
tough when you start to say how far do
you go? Is it two miles radius? Is it
you know quarter mile? We had that
discussion literally dead in road in
Claremont County or Union Township. One
of our friends is a postman. He was
telling me that
>> we end up doing that. We end, you know,
we end up saying here it is, you know,
shepherd and and then we turn around at
Kluff Pike and and everyone at Clike
says I didn't get a letter like well
Pike's this long.
>> I hadn't considered that. But
>> so I I appreciate I just it just upset
me. No, thank you so much. you know, and again, the the lady behind me is
getting ready to sell her property. It's
12.4 acres within this next six to nine
months,
>> and whatever happens back here, could
that influence how much could happen
behind me coming up in the not too
distant future. Yeah.
>> So, I've already contacted the nature
center. I think they're interested in
purchasing that, though. So, um and it
was because of all of this that it
brought it to my attention that I
started to get concern. Yeah. So, um,
beyond that, I don't think I have
anything else.
>> Thank you, Mr. Beer.
>> Oh, yeah. So, Mr. Flouty,
>> can you comment on the letters that went
out like how many residents or how far a
radius from the from the property?
>> So, we have a list and in the
>> if it's based on radius, somebody behind
me got one, even further down got one.
>> We can see the radius of 200 feet around
the property and that's who the letters
were sent to. 200 feet around the
property.
>> Yes.
>> Why would Mr. Syler not
>> That's what we decided on.
>> Yeah. That's Mr. Becker. That's that was per our decision to expand it
because it previously was just the next
door neighbor.
>> I remember that
>> and we wanted to be like the P person
across the street and we're like we had
that discussion this exact discussion
like it's going to be difficult because
>> we expanded from the original.
>> Yeah.
>> But Jason only remember
>> someone's always going to feel like they
missed a letter.
>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Fl.
>> That's all I have. Chairman,
>> did you have anything for
>> No, I I do appreciate that. Thank you.
>> Thank you, miss. Appreciate you very
much.
>> Yeah. Okay. Is there anyone else that's
I said I was going to call you next,
sir? So, please. Yeah. No, I'm right
here in the front. Red shirt. Yes, sir.
Okay. Come on up.
>> Um, perfect.
>> Okay. And then, uh, Oh, you got your
card. Perfect. Yeah, Mr. M's fine.
Perfect. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Yes.
Okay. All
right, let me go and swear you in. Uh,
you want to raise your right hand and do
you swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, but they both know the truth. So
you got
>> I do. Then name and address for the
record, sir.
>> My name is Jeffrey Bond. I live at 4634
Sheepard Roadia,
obviously.
Good.
>> Now,
I raised zoning
at the zoning meeting. I raised several
concerns of mine and some of those have
even changed more.
The traffic,
that's one. And we're not talking about
36 cars.
If I had four sons and each one had a
car and my wife had a car and I had a
car. Okay, that's six times 18,
not two.
That's one. I drive down Shepard Road
every day. And it is narrow. And yes,
you do have to slow down. You do have to
move over. You're going to add another
60 cars to this.
That's one concern.
Someone raised the point that the
signatures that were gathered
was a ploy by a possible purchaser. I
disagree with that.
Mr. Crocker's daughter and his son live
adjacent to me.
Why wouldn't he be concerned
about this development?
I would be if they were my children. and
grandchildren. We have all kinds of
pedestrian traffic.
So now we have another concern.
And it's 35 miles an hour on a deadend
street.
They seldom drive 35. I guarantee you
that. I back into my driveway to make
sure I don't get hit.
Now, we'll talk about my newest concern.
I came up to the zoning and they were
gracious enough to print out
something that I hadn't been made aware
of at the zoning meeting. If I can
approach you for just a moment.
>> Sure. Yeah.
>> They printed this out for me
and it has
all the addresses on it. And
unfortunately, I only have one copy, but
my address is 4634.
And you will see that
this is my property.
Along my property line is a drainage
ditch creek.
It starts here. This is
Cindy's property, Mr. Crawford's
daughter.
That drainage creek
drains
everything
» all of this.
>> All of the development over here. All
the development over there
>> flows into this creek.
>> Go north.
>> That was a question. Does it go north?
>> Where does it go from there?
>> It goes back into the junkyard.
>> Is that north? Okay. Yes, it flows
north.
Now
>> on Friday, oh at my own expense,
>> because it was narrow,
I had it expanded
>> to slow the flow down.
» And again, I'm sorry I only have
>> these few pictures.
>> Yeah, I can imagine.
>> Friday last we had an unusual amount of
rain. I know you guys will all agree
with that.
So now
you don't see the creek
>> because it is flooded. It has flooded my
neighbor's yard. It flooded part of my
yard. Even though I expanded this just
so we could slow the flow down. What was
this picture taken?
>> Friday last.
>> Friday.
>> Remember we had like three inches of
rain in an hour and a half or whatever.
>> I've got this I've got this storm drain.
And I will not argue that we have no
storm drains on Shepherd Road.
>> It's every everything in my neighborhood
comes into mine and it shoots up into
the air.
>> Yeah. Well, it comes up in my basement a
little bit sometimes, too, because
>> everything drains in it. There's
>> exciting.
>> Oh, it's insane. So now it's you're
going to add 18 more houses that are
going to drain into my creek
according to
your zoning drawing.
>> Your house is where?
>> My house
is right here.
>> 4634.
>> So it runs right there.
» That's my newest concern. And that's
because of this.
the flooding.
>> Yeah.
>> That we had and it was an unusual rain.
But now you're going to add 18 more
houses, which is 18 more gutters, which
is 18 more basement drains, etc.
>> There's no storm storm sewers on
>> No, there are not.
>> Shepherd sir,
>> I did not know that. That's interesting.
>> No, sir. They're all um either front
yard drain and in fact when I had my Let
me go back.
When I had my driveway laptop,
the county engineer told me I had to
slope it so it would drain from the
street into the creek that runs on the
property line of my property management.
>> My other concern is the actual community
that we live in.
The vast majority of the houses on
Shephard Road have halfacre lots.
Not necessarily all. Some are larger,
very few are smaller.
So now we're going to put in housing on
8th acre lots.
So this is not going to fit in this
community. It won't look right.
It removes a lot of the privacy of
several of my neighbors.
They talk about expanding green space by
making it R4.
That's a wonderful concept
except that that's already
green space. And yes, I'd want it to be
developed, but not 18 houses.
Nine or 10 houses
would fit really nice. they would be
able to save a fair amount of the
existing old forest that's there
and still have development.
I'm not against the development at all.
I'm against the scale of the
development. And like I said, my newest
concern is the drainage on my property.
That's about all. Oh, one more thing.
These poor gentlemen here, they put the
development that they want. How are they
going to get in there to put out a fire
that has a house that's five feet next
to it? You're going to put three
firefighters and a ladder in between
there and drag the hose in? I don't
think so.
I don't think that would work at all.
And I don't believe the fire chief would
force those poor guys in there unless he
had no choice.
with the resoning that's being proposed,
he would have no choice.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you, gentlemen.
>> Thank you, Mr.
M. Appreciate it. Thank you.
>> Is there anyone else that's an opponent
to this case? Sir, sir, come on up.
Yeah,
>> let me go swear you in. Yeah, you got
it.
>> I got you. Perfect. You're good.
All right, sir. And then uh let me go
and swear you in. Do you swear to tell
the truth, the whole truth, nothing but
the truth? So hopey God.
>> I do.
>> Great. Where's yours, sir?
>> My name is Richard Crocker. Live at 4630
Shepherd Road.
>> Yeah.
>> My daughter lives at 4631. My son lives
at 4632
and also on 4642.
That is the salvage yard.
Uh
it's just too many houses for a small
space. I guess my first question is in
the R2
quarter acre lots.
They argued that you could put 20 houses
on that land.
We still got to deduct for the black
top, pension ponds, SIBO area. So now,
how many houses can they put? They're
not required to show that because that's
not his plan.
>> But I think there's a there's a method.
It's probably, like they said, nine or
10. So if it was quarter acre lot
houses, you just raise the price a
little bit.
he would still get his profit margin.
Uh at the 18 houses proposed, he's
probably at a $10 million project. I
don't know if um got it down to quarter
acre lots, say 10 houses,
probably wouldn't be that far off. The
price got raised a little bit. They
would still sell. That's what I want. I
want less houses, more land. The green
space would be the yards that would
absorb the water.
instead of so many gutters, so many
shank, so many roofs. Uh, yeah, there's
going to be a storm sewer on that
property. There's going to be a storm
sewer and it's going to have pipes going
to the detention ponds, the water
holding areas. It's got to go out
eventually. So, there is going to be a
water problem. It's just too many houses
on a small lot. Just too many. It's just
How would you like to have 18 houses pop
up in your backyard? And, you know, I
own the land right next to it. My
daughter lives there. Yes, she's going
to request she request him to put up a
fence if that's if that goes through
tonight. She's sitting right there. She
would like to have a fence
instead of trees.
She don't want people looking at her.
She don't want to look at nobody, I
guess. So, she would like a fence. Um,
I did go around and get all the
signatures
because
My first thought was when Kevin Sal
shared the the letter with me, it's too
many houses. Yeah. And the fire marshall
should speak, but he won't because he'd
lose his job. Too close together. One
cow's catching on fire and they're 12
feet apart. And I realized it's five
feet and five. That's 10. But it's
probably more like six and six. It' be
12.
Burn them all down. How would you get
there in time? That's one. That's
another thing. I'm not very good at
talking places like this, but
>> that's okay. You're good.
>> This is just wrong. It's just too many.
I'm not I'm not against developing. I'm
against overdeveloping. And this is a
prime case of overdeveloping. It's just
too many.
Yeah, I'm happy that they've got it
sold.
No big deal. Did I make an offer on it?
I did. Didn't get it. I'm good. I'm not
mad about that.
It's too many houses. It's too many.
>> There should be an amendment, an
adjustment. And how can I force them to
show the the drawing? You know, you
can't put 20 houses there. It ain't like
if you had 20 quarter acre lots parallel
with the street.
That'd be five acres. And everybody
entered Shepherd from sheep from
Shepherd Road to their house. That would
be what you're trying to say. 20 houses
on five acres quarter acre at a time.
If you deduct for the streets, deduct
for all the other things, you're going
to get 20 houses in there on R2. It's
going to be more like 10.
So that's this is an upgrade. This is
not a downgrade from 20 to 18. This is
not a downgrade. We are not getting uh a
bone thrown to us here. We're not
getting something special. It's an
upgrade.
I realize they got to make a profit. I
realize they got to make money. If you
spend money, you deserve to make money.
Not not not mad about that. That's all
good.
But it's just too many houses for for
where it's going. And it's a dead end
street. It's one way in, one way out. Uh
I drive a big truck up down that road
every day. Every day. A Mac truck. I get
over and stop for people. I wave. I
thank them. You know what I mean? For
giving me space. Shepherd Road is a real
weird entrance and exit. There's trees.
There's telephone poles at the bright at
the corner. I've touched them many times
with semi trailers. Okay. It's just
tight. It's It's just wrong to keep
adding more housing and that many.
And eventually there's like Elmer
Griggsby owns 35 acres.
He's 93 years old. I mean, my place
ain't never going to get developed.
Who'd want that?
>> You know, who'd want that? It ain't
never going to get developed. It's only
got a 20 foot entry by about 150, 200
feet and it's 8 and a half acres back
there. But who'd want to develop that?
Nobody. So, I know that my son's taking
it when I'm gone. I'm good with that.
It's just It's just too many for the
spot. So, keep it. Please keep it R2. It
will adjust. He'll still make money. It
will adjust. what is the exact number of
houses when he redraws it and and you
know he's drawn it three or four
different ways when he looked at it to
buy it for R2 he draw it wasn't enough
housing and money profit margin if you
keep it R2 he'll redraw it price might
be a little more because it's a little
bit more lands
houses more land the grass will soak it
up and it'll be more green the the
perimeter will be the They'll put the
pine trees up and the three-foot little
grassy areas. It'll be less houses
make it
maker. Any questions?
>> I I do actually for Mr. Flouty. So, but
first off, I want to correct myself that
water is flowing east. I said north. So,
my apologies on that. Mr. FL those
detention ponds.
>> Mhm.
>> Where does the water go? If there's no
storm sores along Shepard, where does
water where does the storm water drain
to?
>> Yeah. So there's design calculations put
into place. And one of the reasons why
you see three well so there's two
detention, one retention. It's because
the site is very flat. So they're having
to capture the water and bring it and
hold it. And then it slowly gets
released to the level to where it
doesn't affect the surrounding
properties. There's storm water
calculations done
>> that
they capture the flow on this site and
>> one of them is like a spillway. One of
them would be like a spillway
>> that gets filled up. the pipe of juice.
>> Uh the the two are grass
>> so they you know fill up they'll slowly
release and then the other ones
>> understand
>> I understand that we all understand
that.
>> Okay. Thank you. That's all I have
chairman. And the the thing that Jeff
brought up about the the water now
running from the flatter area of the
land
>> towards the ditch next to my daughter
>> and then uh if you're standing in front
of my daughter's house it' be left. I
guess that would be north. I'm confused
on that. This guy is
>> that pipe that goes underneath Sheepard
Road.
>> The Leon and Glenn Bishop had worked on
that catch face because that was
originally Bishop property back in the
60s.
>> They had worked on that catch phase. I
remember talking to them when they did
that and Glenn that was their
[clears throat] brother. Okay. It does
leave there, crosses Shepard Road, goes
between Jeff's house and I used to call
it the house and goes down between
those two houses. Then it goes
underneath the junkyard driveway and
runs down on the left side of the
junkyard towards an acres center. It's
been that way. My family's been on this
street for 95 years. Been that way
forever and it works. Does it get a
little backed up once in a while? That's
what you scream, but it does. So that's
been there forever.
Is it going to overflow that? Yeah, it's
possible.
It's very possible because we all
understand what gutter water, shingle
water, house water, concrete water,
black top water moves fast. It moves
quick. It don't saturate into the
ground. Everybody understands that. So,
I ask you please keep it R2.
if he if he still wants to pursue a a
building project, a um you know, a
subdivision project, he will he'll
adjust it. He'll raise the price a
little bit. It'll still work. Now, is he
allowed to call it a subdivision then? I
don't know that answer. That'd be on
you. Is he allowed to have an HOA an HOA
then?
>> I don't know that answer. That's on
>> and I realize that's what he's after.
>> Okay.
>> Mr. Crocker, I'm curious.
I'm sorry, Mr. Lug. Do you have any
questions for Mr. Crux?
>> No, I'm good. Thank you, Mr. Cer. You
put an offer in. Um, have you thought
about matching or beating whatever Mr.
>> When I did put the offer in the the
second offer I did put in with my
realtor,
um,
they said it was rejected and they had a
they were under contract at that time.
So, and we waited, never heard nothing
back and it was fine. I'm not mad about
that. I'm really not.
>> Um
>> I'm just cur curious if you ever want to
go higher than what Mr. Gibbs is
offering and buy the land yourself.
>> Wow,
that's a good question.
» I'm sure he's he's got some expenses
now.
>> I I don't think the owners really care.
They just want to sell it and make as
much money as they can. So,
>> well, I feel some animosity from from
David here. I feel some animosity from
him throwing me under the bus every time
to come to a meeting like this. I am not
mad no more that I
>> No, it's interesting. My my question
though is is is I that I'll let you two
work out your all
>> Yeah. Would I still be interested? Well,
yes, I would. And what would I do with
the place? I'll tell you. I would
renovate the old house.
>> Put 30, 40,000 in it. I'd fix it up.
It's fixable. Anything's fixable.
>> Sure.
>> I'd put somebody in within the family.
>> I would make a large green space toward
my daughter's house. I would mow that
every week. I would leave the back trees
border to Willoughbrook. Um, and I'd pay
taxes on a on almost a 5 acre place the
rest of my life.
>> Yeah,
>> that's what I'd do with it.
>> Fair enough.
>> I mean, there was a there was a thought
years ago when I first talked to Irma
about buying it. I wanted to build a
house next to my daughter's house in
between the two and and have just one
house there and maybe somebody else in
my family would get my house. I I that
was just a thought,
>> but that thought's changed. You know
what I mean? I've had a lot of different
things happen in my life since then.
>> Yeah. Understand?
>> Could I afford to buy it? Absolutely.
That ain't the problem.
>> Yeah.
>> That ain't the problem. And they know
that.
>> Okay.
>> And I'm happy that the man's bought it
and he's going to develop it. I'm good
with that. It's just too many houses for
that little spot. It's 4.7. I mean, I
can't even understand how you can have a
subdivision on that tiny of a spot.
other there should be a guidelines for
against that. You should have 30 acres
with 50 houses to call it a subdivision.
That's just me thinking out of the box.
>> Appreciate you, Mr. Crocker. Thank you
very much. Yeah. Thank you, sir.
>> Think we're okay. Yeah. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
>> Is there anyone else that's an opponent
of this case?
>> Okay. See, one more. Please go ahead.
Yeah.
Democracy is not clean.
» I had no idea that this meeting Oh, I'm
sorry. Swear me.
>> I'm tired.
>> I swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth. Nothing about the truth. Help
you.
>> You bet. I will.
>> Go ahead. State your name.
>> So, uh, I had no idea this meeting was
going to go this long and I didn't bring
my back medicine, so I am in pain, but
that's okay. It's important.
>> Yes, ma'am. Um, my name is Deb Bond or
Debbie Bond. Uh, I'm the wife of Mr.
Jeff. Uh, I live at 4634 Shepard Road in
Betavia. And we are the house that's
across the street from Cindy's and and
uh and Dan's. Dan has the one and then
Cindy's next to that. And we're across
the street and we're the one that has
the creek as well.
>> It's not really a creek. It's a drainage
ditch, but I'm going to talk about that
here in a minute.
Um,
one thing we've been there about 10
years and a couple things that I really
liked about living on Shepard Road is
that it's it feels very rural. You know,
there's there's houses we have a half an
acre. Uh, our house was built in 1949,
so apparently it's not zoned at all.
That's what they told us in the zoning
meeting. Uh, that it's not an R1. It's
just because it was built before 1959, I
think. So, there's no zoning to it.
Yeah. Sure.
>> Which is fine. We wanted a little land.
We wanted um you know, peace and quiet.
There's no um Sorry, I'm so tired.
There's no um street lights. Uh so it's
nice and quiet. You hear the crickets
speaking and the frogs are, you know,
there's there's um wildlife in the in
the uh creek itself. Um, and it's just
nice to be able to sit out on the porch,
front porch, and listen to that and to
see the trees and all those beautiful w
woods that you can see there and it's
going to all be gone. And I just don't
understand it. The wildlife that comes
out of there, we get deer, we get fox,
we get raccoons, uh, possum, all kinds
of stuff like that. So, that bothers me.
The second thing, and people have
brought this up, is if you have 18
houses on there, uh, and everybody has
two cars. We actually have three. Not
that we drive them all at the same time,
but we do. But so you're talking at
least a minimum of 40 cars. And it's
kind of misleading the the way that that
road goes. It goes down. It dips down
and curves around. And we're right on
the dip in the curve. Okay. So,
when I used to drive my Miata, uh, it
would be really scary, you know, to try
to look, and I'm short, look out this
way, look out this way, look out this way again, go, you
know, so you wouldn't get hit. I have a
bigger, taller car now, but it's still a
problem getting out of there. And with
more traffic, just three doors down, I
just, it's just not right. There's a lot
of people that walk their dogs, run,
kids on bicycles, people, you know, and
I I fear for them. I do if there's more
cars. So, another 40 cars. I don't see
it. Um, people mention the speed limit
of 35.
That's just it should be 30 or less. It
really should because it is very narrow.
You do have to be very careful uh not to
fall in the ditch because the ditches
along the road is where the water goes
and to not hit them as you're going. So,
it it's a little scary. Um, but the
biggest thing that concerns me with that
many homes and with the
retention, well, first of all, the
retention uh pond, um, I'm assuming that
they're going to have something in there
to make it move around so that the
mosquitoes don't grow in there. I mean,
I'm not sure how that works. So,
concerned about that. Then we had the
two detention ponds, right? one on the
one side and one on side right next
really to where um
where uh I'm sorry I'm so tired where um
uh Dan uh Dan's house there's going to
be one back in that wood that has a gap
right and it is all going to go down
into our creek. Now, here's the thing
about our creek.
After it goes underneath the shepherd
road and it goes into the culvert or
whatever it is and it comes down, right,
[clears throat] it drops about 20 feet
deep. It's that steep. It's not just a
creek. It's steep. Okay? And the
pictures that my husband showed you is
showing you the low part of our our So,
it goes like that. And that's the part
that flooded.
>> Yeah. But it also flooded all the way to
our fence line which is also another 18
ft deep. So that was a lot of water.
Okay. I'm concerned, you know, if
somebody was some child was playing in
that water and thought it was just a
pond, you know, boom, dead. It's gone.
You know what I'm saying? It's a big
drop off.
>> Doesn't really show it there, but it is.
Um, I just wondered whether anyone has
um checked with Claremont County soil
and water to make sure that the water
flow is going to be right for this creek
area. It's not going to be flooded even
more when it rains when they release
these detention ponds because it is all
going into that creek.
Um,
so that's it. I'm sorry. I had no idea
this was going to be this long, this
late.
And I got to get up and go to work
tomorrow. So, there you go.
>> Likewise,
>> and him Yeah. My husband's got to get up
at 4 a.m., so we're tired.
So, I just want to I just I think I'm
like Mr. Proctor. We just don't want as
many homes there.
>> Less homes, less water. We're not
looking to widen the street. We like the
street. It's It's rural. It's a one-way
street that goes back several miles, but
we like that. We like that there's no
street lights. We like that there's no
sidewalks. I think the reason a lot of
people live on Shepard and stay on
Shepard is because it feels like
country living and yet you're just
around the corner from the escape. So,
I think I said enough as I'm really
tired. I need to go to bed.
>> Mr. Re, do you have any questions?
>> Yeah. Do you have any questions about
the ditch in the creek and how
>> You did good. You did a good job
explaining. Appreciate you very much.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, miss.
Appreciate you.
>> Thank you. Sorry.
>> Is there anyone else that's an opponent
of this case? Please come on up, sir.
Yeah.
>> Oh,
wait. I just want to go to
whatever you want to do.
>> Thank you.
» You sure?
>> Yeah.
>> I'll let you know once.
>> All right. Okay. All right. Let me know.
All right. Let me go swear you in. You
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth
about the truth. So hope you got God.
>> I do.
>> Okay, great. Floor is yours, sir.
>> Uh my name is Jeff Beal. Um I live at
989 Shepard Woods Court. It's actually
behind site 13, I think it is.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> Um I do have a couple concerns. Um
it's the first trustee meeting ever been
to, so it's kind of new new to me. I
wasn't expecting to be here till as late
as it is. So I'll be try to be quick.
Looking at the previous case that was up
here, I He had everybody lined up, you
know, and every resident that lived in
there knew what was going to happen.
They knew what who was building the
homes. They knew everything. Who's
building the homes? I mean, what's going
in there? That's great. He's got the
property. He's got a plan. What kind of
homes are going in there? You know, they
the previous case they built they built
the case for us homeowners around them
to know what was going to happen here.
What's going on? Is it his parent
company buying building the homes? I
don't know.
So
that's where I have a concern. You know,
my house was just re-evaluated. My wife
and I are putting a pool in. So I know
what my house is worth. You know, what
kind of home is going to go in right
behind us. You know, is it going to
lower my value? You know, all this money
that I've invested. Talking about
drainage. I got water that comes right
through my the side of my house because
of that property. My wife and I had to
put a French train in back in 2020. It
helped, but it doesn't it's not perfect.
So, and I'm trying to be quick here
because I know it's late, but those are
my concerns.
If you pull up that map for site 13, you
can see how close my house is and that
property line has barely anything there
that separates me from that community.
You know, yeah, you got a retention pond
or whatever it is, but am I going to get
more runoff because now they don't have
a storm sewer?
You know, I'm not opposed to community.
In fact, if you look at that drawing,
there's a there's a barn right there. I
literally in the back of my house look a
barn, an old barn that's been there 40
years. It's a pretty decent fall. So, I
don't mind having somebody live behind
me, you know, that might actually invest
in the back of their property, have
something nice to look at.
>> It's just what's going to go in there,
>> you know.
So, if this gets approved,
which you know, I I've shared my
concerns up to this point. Can we get
can I get some kind of buffer between my
house and and my fellow neighbors on
Shepherd Woods? You know, I know each
and every one of them and has invested a
lot of money in into clearing their own
land. When I bought my property, it was
full of pine suck and everything. spent
a lot of money dropping trees, building
a deck, you know, putting up a fence,
just like probably all of you. I wanted
your homes to look nice. You know, I
have five kids. I'm getting ready to
have a six guardianship of a six.
>> You know, I got a pool going in and what
kind of what kind of homeowner is going
to be living 40 feet from that pool
where my kids are going to be in bathing
suits?
So, you know,
what kind of uh privacy can this
developer or whoever is going to be
building this property offer me to get
my blessing? I'm not going to be
building it because it's his property,
but you know,
» no, appreciate it, Mr. Beto. The uh Mr.
Becker, any questions, sir?
>> Um, again, Mr. Flouty, I got a question
for Mr. Flouty.
So, if we don't know who the builder is
for this development, how is it we have
the elevations for the for the for the
houses for the
>> in our packet?
>> Yeah. They would have to follow the
specification. So, you would still be
looking at single family one to twotory
homes.
>> They're not necessarily what we have in
the packet.
>> We ask the developer when he comes up.
Yeah.
>> Can we ask the developer when he comes
up?
>> We just ask the developer when he comes
up. Okay, that's fine. I was just trying
to
>> just curious
to the points. No, I got a note about
the buffer and I plan to ask the
developer about that when that comes up
and I appreciate you, Mr. Beck.
>> That's all I appreciate you. Thank you.
sir.
>> Thank you. Okay. Is there anyone else
that's opposed to this development?
Okay. See, see.
Okay.
[snorts]
All right. Come on up. Yeah. Yeah. Hand
to Mr. Campbell.
>> Thank you.
>> And then uh let me go and swear you in
and name that address for the record.
You swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth. Are they both the truth? Help you
God. So help me God.
>> All right. And then name address for the
record, sir.
>> Mark Watkins, 4626 Shepard Road. I'm
Richard's neighbor.
>> Yep.
>> And also
was partial family with Irma. Her
brothers helped
make
developments on my land to fix a wide
open ditch that was left there from the
60s.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean,
>> that's my my brother-in-law p former
brother-in-law. He's dead. That's part
of their family.
>> Oh, I see. Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah.
>> It's not that we oppose the development.
It's just too many.
There is water problems. We all know
there's water problems from beginning to
teal town just before Shepard all the
way down Shepard.
There's no storm sewers. It's a skinny
road. It's got ditches.
[clears throat and cough]
As you go down Shephard before you get
to the first hump that goes up by
Blackberry,
>> all the water from the top of Shephard
goes down there and goes into a creek.
That creek follows along in the back of
all the houses before me
and Richards. I've got one in my
sideyard.
The crook that they uh the ditch that
they covered up, we put pipe in. We put
in a storm sewer. and Friday storms.
Water was boiling over from across the
street and boiling out of my storm sewer
a good foot and a half, two foot tall.
Sure.
>> There was a river that run through my
property 6 to 8 foot wide that went down
to the creek next to my barn on the
lower part of my property.
The water problems on Shepherd, it's not
uncommon.
And if you look at the topographical lay
of the land, all of Willoughbrook in
that area between Cindy's house and our
house, it's not it's flat, but it's not
really flat. It all goes down into that
little valley where their house is.
So, how are you going to route all this
rain water to these retention ponds?
They have nowhere for it to go anyway,
but pasting through their lots. We've
all got water problems.
Adding all that much roof space, con,
you know, driveways,
you're making the water problems worse.
Like they were saying at R2,
8 to 10 houses is more than enough on
Shepard Road, not 18.
I mean, I don't know what the rules are.
Like the HOA,
but Shephard,
the development, Shephard Woods just
passed that.
They stuck with the AR, too. They had no
problems with it.
So, why would you take that much land as
opposed to a smaller plot of land and
try to put more houses on it?
There's just
It's not good for the neighborhood.
>> Thank you.
Mr. Watkins. Thank you, Mr.
Becker. Mr. Logan, anything?
>> Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.
>> Yeah, come on up, sir, please. Yeah,
love to have you. All right.
» Appreciate your service, by the way.
>> Thank you. Yes, sir.
>> Appreciate.
>> Thank you for your service.
>> Okay, let me go and swear you in. Do you
swear to tell truth, the whole truth,
nothing but the truth, so shall be God?
>> I do.
>> Great. Great. Great. uh for your s the
name and address for the record.
>> Uh yes, my name is Doyle Castile. Live
at 4638
Locust Grove Court and
uh our property
is right
um
right there. The kind of high shot.
We we have the longest property line
against
um that property and I have been around
[clears throat] the building
uh industry for since 1970
>> and um I have seen
a lot of houses go up. I've worked in
the houses and around the construction
areas and I have never seen a house
built on that small of a lot. And um and
I because we back right up to that
property
u and I look at what is what they're
trying to put in. It's just not
um too many houses for the amount of the
property.
And I like I said, I've never seen a
house built on that small of a lot.
And the houses that I worked on back in
the 70s and 80s and 90s and on up
>> uh have all been in $300,000
houses at that time.
» So I I don't feel that
um that we should have that many houses
back there. Plus the strain. Uh we have
enough strain right now on the
electrical
uh grid back there. We're constantly
losing electric. Uh that's going to put
more burden on the uh electrical system.
Um it's all overhead wiring.
So that's going to put a extra strain on
the electrical system.
and um
and of course the water problems and
everything that you run into. So
um that that's my feelings and
um I don't want to see it to be that
much and have to worry about what uh
people move in back there.
>> Thank you, Mr. Casio. Appreciate it, Mr.
Becker. Mr. Lope. I have no, you know, I
have no problems with them building
houses there, but it's just too many
houses for that
property.
>> Understand?
>> All right. Thank you.
>> Thank you, sir. Appreciate you very
much. Thank you.
>> Okay. Is there anyone else that like to
speak?
>> Of course. Yeah. Come on up. Perfect.
» That's okay. Then just speak slowly so
Mr. Campbell can understand. Okay. Are
you ready? Uh, you swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth of the truth will
be God.
>> Yes.
>> Great. Name and address for the record.
>> Cindy Crocker Clark.
>> My address is 4631 Shephard Road,
Betavia.
>> Perfect.
>> Um, I live directly next to the property
where they're wanting to build
uh the 18 houses. I think it's um
a crazy idea to put 18 houses in this
tiny little spot. It doesn't fit the
neighborhood. If you drive down Shepard,
there's
just house after house after house. And
if you throw in just this little tiny
road and you look and there's just I
don't know.
I don't It just doesn't fit. It it
wouldn't fit to just look back and see
just a a mega bunch of houses back
there. I I I don't know. I grew up on
this road. It it just wouldn't fit the
neighborhood.
Uh I already deal with water issues
and I have a feeling that putting uh I
think it's the detention pond is going
to be like right next door to my house.
Um, I have a feeling that's going to
cause issues. Bugs, animals,
um, more water issues.
Um, noise.
I'm going to have to deal with people in
their houses and their cars and more
noise than I already deal with on the
road.
Um, I mean, I could probably sit here
and complain all night, but I don't want
to keep you guys here all night.
So, I just just come up. I wasn't gonna
get up here, but I thought I'd get up
here and just
[clears throat]
>> um if it were to go through. [snorts]
Yeah. I mean, I like watching nature and
stuff like that. There's a deer den back
in my backyard right now.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but if it were to go through, I' i'd
like to see a fence put up all the way
around my yard.
Did you say a deer den or deer pen?
>> Den.
What's a deer? Den.
>> Like there's there's a mother and two
fawns in my backyard.
>> Oh, they just live out in the wild.
That's okay.
>> Yeah, I still have the woods back there.
>> That's fine. Thank you.
>> Okay, I got it. Loud and clear. Yeah.
Thank you, Miss Crocker, very much. Yes,
ma'am. You got Oh, I'm sorry. Did you
want
>> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate you very
much.
>> Okay. Is there anyone else that like to
talk on this?
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Please, please, please.
>> I'd be remiss to say, my wife is texting
me saying, "Hey, uh, remind them the
$3,000 we spent um to regrade our
backyard. We too have uh water issues."
So, everybody mentioning the water
issues, uh, reminded us of that. And
then also, if this were to go through,
uh, concessions are to be made. Uh, Mr.
Beal and I, we are very close together.
uh we share that buffer zone uh
at the top of this picture, the north of
this picture uh if you will, um where it
will be and why I was asking earlier
what the uh setback would be and so what
was it uh 10 feet 14 to 19t or so? Could
we potentially get an even deeper
setback like the residents on Locust
Grove get? Uh they get up to 30 feet in
that buffer zone. So, I just wanted to
throw that out there uh as well. Um so,
>> okay, you got it. You got it. I
appreciate it.
» Perfect. Okay. Is there anyone else like
to talk?
>> Okay. Seeing none, uh Mr. Gibbs, come on
up and then I will I will go ahead and
close public session, sir. Public
hearing. Uh I'll let you talk first, Mr.
Gibbs. Anything you want to address and
then I'm sure the board will have a
couple questions for you.
>> Let me get back to my notes here.
Okay.
Um, when we
first went under contract for this land,
it was my intention to bring a multif
family development to you guys with 25
units on it. Um, I came to a few trustee
meetings to kind of feel the temperature
of the township with multif family.
>> Yeah. [snorts]
>> And, uh, here we are. So, uh, you know,
that's why we end up with a single
family product.
I do want to point out um
[clears throat]
the subdivision Shepard Woods Court
that's to the uh west
directly um off the corner the top right
corner of that map
the density there they have I just when
I was sitting down took a map they have
17 houses in the same amount of density
uh same amount of acreage on private
driveways not not uh you know township
streets and uh Willowbrook directly to
the south has the same density, same 17
houses on 4 point I think it was like
six acres is what I came up with. Um and
so
our densities match or slightly slightly
larger than what's currently there.
>> We we put up a back that image up to
where it was. Uh
>> yeah, that one right there shows it the
best with the yellow. Well, you see this
one too.
So, what I'm referring to is that area
to the north of that photo. That's
>> Yeah,
>> I guess I would photo.
>> If you if you measured the acreage,
there's 17 houses in the same amount of
acreage to the south to the on that map
to the left of it where Willoughbrook
is, same thing. There's 17 houses in the
same amount of acreage there, too, with
a street.
>> So, um you know, so I do think we're we
actually are matching the density in
this subdivision. Um, as far as the we
were talking about buffer zones on the
back of the property and there was
discussed that they were 15t I believe
they're 30 feet on the back of the
property. The tighter buffer is the one
to the u uh sheep sheepard woods court
side um where we combed that with a
three-foot mound and some
>> some landscape. So on I'm going to say
to the left of that picture. So the
houses that are butt up to the left of
the of of the picture you're putting
rolling hill mounds on there. Is that
correct?
>> To the left the long property line to
the left.
>> Yes.
>> There's a 30 foot. We're keeping the
trees. We're not cut.
>> So like a no mo zone basically like
Okay. Got it. Okay.
>> And that's part of the green space for
the subdivision.
>> Craig, can you stay on the picture you
had it at?
» Yeah. Perfect. There you go. And then uh
Okay. Okay. And then well, I'm going to
say the top part of the picture where
it's like a like a Z. There you go. What
are we doing there?
>> I can't tell from my map if it's 10 or
15 which Carl Carl can answer that was
here, but it it's a different type of
buffer. It's got the mound with the
landscaping on it.
>> Okay.
>> Um same thing with the with Miss
Crocker's along Miss Crocker. If you
look at our site plan, there's a mound
all the way around that property line,
too.
>> Um hypothetically, Miss Crocker, if this
goes true, do you want do you want a
mound with landscaping or do you want a
fence?
Roger that. Okay. All right. And then uh
Okay. And then uh so basically is it
mounds all the way all the way around
the entire property basically
>> and and 30 ft of trees? Yeah.
>> Got it. Okay.
>> Yes. Okay.
>> Other than the road and there is some
along the road too.
>> Question. Please go ahead. Yeah.
>> I heard [clears throat] Miss Crocker
make the comment about a fence all the
way around her property. I just want to
clarify. Did you guys just discuss that
or just about a fence along the border
to his property?
>> Yeah. So, so Mr. Gibbs, if so, so her
pro do you know her property is that?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Is that is that an issue to put up
a fence basically like like an L right
there? Would that be an issue? The
thoughts, what do you think?
>> No, it's not an issue.
>> Okay.
>> Now, the the house that's the second
house or the house down from her,
there's nothing behind them. It's just a
retention pond. Would you be expecting a
fence there?
>> I don't think so.
>> Um, [clears throat]
» okay. Is that an issue? What are your
thoughts?
>> No. But
>> Okay, fair enough. Okay. All right. All
right. The things to consider. Okay. Um,
>> but just so we're clear, we would be
deleting the mount that goes around
that.
>> You can't You can't have both. You can't have both. So, yeah, that's
what she shows. So, in the event it goes
through. So,
>> okay. Uh anything else on on your end
that you want to go over?
>> Uh it would discuss about the plans. Um
none of our other So as you guys
probably know by now, Maddox Development
is part of a larger group, actual
building group and the act Maddox group
and we do build houses. I do want to
reiterate we're not building these
houses. Um I don't have a written
agreement, but I have intentions from
Fiser Homes to build these houses.
>> Okay. Okay. Fisher homes. Okay. And that
and the plans that we show came from
Fisher Homes, the uh the the designs
that you saw in this packet, see,
>> but and that is obviously um there's
some contingencies there and it's not a
final deal, but that is our intention.
>> Did you talk with the Arbor people
today?
>> Who?
>> The Arbor people tonight. We should have
>> compet competition might get you a
better deal.
>> Okay. Anything [clears throat] else on
your end at all?
uh the water drainage. I I think that
our plan aims to improve the water
drainage in the area. Like I said, we
got two retention ponds and one
detention pond. The retention ponds will
hold the water and then again, that's
all kind of regulated by the county and
so they they have to approve the water
management plan uh before we they would
issue us any type of permit.
» U Mr. Becker, any questions?
>> No.
Okay. Mr. Logan, any questions?
>> No. Um, what what was I didn't ask this
question. Uh, what ballpark what what
are you going to be selling these homes
for? Ballpark each.
>> I'm not going to be selling the homes,
but I is there anything? So, the product
the most comparable product in the new
the most comparable recent project in
Union Township would be Bucks and Oaks
behind Arch Rental.
>> Okay.
>> Um, which 400s 400. Okay.
>> 350 to 450.
>> Okay. Okay. So, 400K. Okay. Uh why since
you could fit I assume it's probably was
it for the green space but I assume you
could fit what you want in R2. Wh why
because you don't need to come to us for
an R2. Why why come to us for an R4?
>> Because R4 allows for us to have a
variable design HOA a planned
development uh the green space uh where
uh we just look at uh just look at
Shephard Woods. There's no required
green space around that perimeter of
that property or anything like that.
>> Yeah.
>> And so we we
Fisher wants that. They want the HOA.
They want that controlled area for the
product they're selling.
>> Makes sense. Okay. Um any other
questions at all gentlemen.
>> Okay. See, hey, Mr. G. Appreciate you
very much. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Okay. And then uh All right.
>> Okay.
>> Come on to the mic, please. this
>> when he's talking about or they're
talking about fence versus the
>> you you can't have both.
>> You can't have both.
>> But he was having since they're going to
cut all the trees down in that area
right in that side where
>> No, it's going to be a 30 foot mozzone.
No. Gosh.
>> In the back.
>> Correct. Yeah.
>> But what I'm asking is so they had the
BM thing or what it's called and they
had the pine trees. They're going to put
pine trees there. So if they're defense,
there's no trees. Is that right?
>> You still have trees. Uh because he said
it was going to be a no mo zone. Just
the the hill mounds are going to go
away. That's all.
>> So the pine trees will stay.
>> Mr. Gibbs, yes or no? Pine trees stay or
no?
>> What the design was put on top?
>> Okay. Okay. So
>> that's being removed for
>> Okay. So So hey, I I I I don't I don't
want to keep going all night. We were
pushing almost midnight here, guys. So,
do do we want Hey, Miss Crocker. Miss Crocker, let me look at
you real quick. You you and I. Do you
want hill mounds with pine trees or do
you want a do you want a fence? What
would you like, miss?
>> I would like a fence.
>> Roger that. But I need both. I need
since the neighbor's not here, Miss
Crocker's got got president. So, the
fence is what's going to go in. Um, and
if he was here, he could have a say and
then you two could battle it out, but
I'm sorry. So, you're you're going to
make the decision for him. Okay. U Miss
M. Crocker, I'm looking at you. So, so
your neighbor to your south, assuming
we'll find out. We're going to discuss
it first, but uh the the fence it is and that's that's what we'll do. So, the
hill mounds are going to go away if
that's what you choose. Okay. Roger
that. Okay.
>> And the pine trees.
Okay. So, uh all
right, gentlemen. I'll entertain a
motion to close uh public hearings. Uh
zoning case number 426-Z
and Zulu.
>> So, moved. Second.
>> Discussion. Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Logan.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes. The public hearing is closed at
11:16 p.m.
>> All right. Uh, vice chairman, like
normal, go to you first, sir.
>> Spin up that broken record.
>> I'm uh surprised here. [clears throat]
I'm going to side with the residents.
>> No way.
>> Um,
>> which resident? I think they're all
residents of Union Township.
» That's why he smells like roses
>> always.
Go ahead, [snorts] sir. Couple of things
that that jumped out at me. There's
legitimate concerns about the the the
water runoff. Understand detention
retention basins and such which would
certainly mitigate it if not entirely
eliminated.
There's um you know character of the
community issue. I think that's most
compelling. Well, maybe not most
compelling uh but the issues about how
narrow Sheepard Road is. And yeah, I've
been up and down it. I get that. So, you
have a public safety what I believe is a
legitimate public safety concern as well
with the addition additional traffic uh
going going up and down the road. So, uh
for those reasons, I will be in no vote.
>> Okay. Uh Mr. Lug. Sure.
>> Yeah. Uh look, I feel that I heard I've
got two three pages of notes here. Um I
keep keep the decision based off of the
case that's presented in front of us.
Obviously, I'd heard some sentiment of
history and family and purchasers and
offers made and this is solely based off
of um the real concerns that I heard
that were based on the water uh and the
dynamics there. um and looking at it,
the water looks that uh working through
the county uh and the water um
management
>> uh but it's also the detention ponds
that will
>> basically
>> grab all the water flow that's coming in
on the property and control the release
of it. So I I you know would venture to
say that that the the overflow and the
mad rush of the water and storm water
that that is currently seen uh I believe
that it will improve and get better uh
because it's going to have a controlled
release. Um, and
I believe between that and the fencing
were the biggest concerns that that that
we've heard um of what is aside from an
R2
to an R4 and essentially meeting the
density of that. So
I I can support the the project as
brought forward. Okay. Craig, Craig, can
you go back to that last slide?
[cough and clears throat] Gosh. Well,
not not that one. Yeah, there there you
go. Okay. So, uh concerns I heard
overall was basically the same
consensus. Uh too many houses compacted
into 4.77 acres. Um the green space,
which I understand that um
I I don't think 18 homes will kill the
traffic. I'm not sold on that. I'm sold
on the other project we voted on 18
homes. I'm I'm sorry. I'm not sold on
that part. I think uh it's a good
argument, but I I don't think it's going
to affect it that much. The nature
center, the drainage was the consensus
was the drainage as well as well as too
many houses packed onto the one green
space. Um what I will say is
uh
by going to an R4
that will open up a little bit more
green space. And I think, you know, when
the water falls, the water falls in the
land. Whether there's a roof there, a
gutter there or not, the water falls in
the land. I think the two retention
ponds or I'm sorry, yeah, two retention
[clears throat] and the one detention
pond will will will help that. The water
is the water. Uh whether it hits a roof
or a gutter or if it hits directly the
land, it'll it'll help the issues with
the water drainage. Um
and uh
and and
I mean, we're looking at this. I don't
think many can argue against the fact
that it's it's similar very similar to
Shepherd Woods in in Willowbrook. It's
very similar. Um
and I drove by the land uh and it's it's
the house it needs to come down. So, um
I agree with it. So,
um Okay. All right. So gentlemen, I'm
going to entertain a motion for the
approval of unit Township zoning case
4-26-Z as in Zulu uh with modifications
as recommended, including the white
vinyl 6-foot fence to surround the two
properties as discussed. Um I don't know
the addresses, but we know what they're
discuss.
>> So moved.
>> Second. Uh any further discussion? Mr.
Campbell, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker,
>> no.
>> Mr. Log,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> All right. So, a man motion to recess.
>> So moved.
>> I'll second. Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Log.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes. We're recess at 11:22 p.m.
ever.
>> This is a Christmas party, right?
» All right.
>> Oh,
>> that's right. That's where I met you.
>> I told you then you speak like a
Republican.
>> [laughter]
>> He was here and I was like, "You're on
the wrong party, guy."
>> All right.
>> I thought good value right there.
>> All right. Uh,
>> he sounded very conservative. [laughter]
>> All right, gentlemen. Entertain a motion
to exit recess.
>> So move.
>> I'll second.
>> Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Jills.
>> Yep.
>> We're back in session at 11:30
p.m.
>> Any old business? Seeing none. I don't
care if there is. We're gonna move on.
Just kidding. That was a joke. Uh, all
right. New business. Our consent agenda.
Uh, gentlemen, entertain a motion for
our consent agenda. Approval of the
minutes 2020, sorry, July 20. Wow. July
14, 2026 regular meeting minutes. The
approval of payments prepared by our
fiscal officer, Ron Campbell, and
approval of our monthly financial report
as prepared by our fiscal officer.
>> So move.
>> Second.
>> Mr. Camp. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> All right. Uh, Mr. Ray, I'll throw it
over to you. Approval of our purchase
orders exceeding 15,000.
>> First purchase order is blanket purchase
order for miscellaneous legal fees to
breaker for 225,000.
The next purchase order is to Matthew
Brun Enterprises. That is Champions.
>> Is that DBA Champions Landscape Supply?
Matt, is that correct?
>> That's Matthew Brun Enterprises is DBA
Champions Landscape Supply.
>> Yes.
>> For salt. So that's for our road salt
contract. You technically can't award a
bid until you uh have a PO. So that's
$285,600.
Next one is Claremont County Water
Resources for the parks, $50,000 blanket
PO. Um next one is um Schneller Heating
and Air Conditioning. We had three units
at the police department uh grenade at
the same time. So that's for $39,871
to replace those three units. Uh the
next item of business is uh for Flock
Group for traffic cameras for the ALPRS
in the amount of $46,900.
That is our annual contract fee due in
October. And the last one is Kevin
Carpenter. That's Dave Carpenter for
nuisance abatement at 4692 Blue Jacket
Road in the amount of $26,575.
And I recommend you know that that would
be a significant improvement if you guys
are interested.
>> That concludes purchase order.
>> Gentlemen, any question Mr. Right?
>> Mr. uh I will entertain a motion for the
approval of purchasers exceeding 15,000
as recommended by our administrator.
>> Uh so move
>> second.
>> Mr. Kimber roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Logan.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion cares.
>> All right. Uh
see uh gentlemen entertain a motion for
the SWOP 4G 20226207
road salt contract continuation.
>> So move
>> second.
>> Any discussion?
>> Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> I can tell you retired.
The uh All right. I entertain a motion
for the approval of 2026 Halloween
trick-or- treat hours establishing to
October 31st. 26 between hours of 6:00
and 8:00 p.m.
>> So move.
>> Second.
>> Uh discussion. Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes. Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> Uh item four. Uh Mr. Wright, why don't
you just briefly describe?
>> Sure. So uh this is for the Tabasco
Mount Carbasco and Club Pike uh
intersection. Uh that uh county has gone
through some initial review. They've
selected a preliminary alternative and
uh we originally pledged $50,000
uh in concert with the transportation
improvement district for $50,000 and
they have secured $385,000 from OKI and
uh J um I don't I'm not I don't remember
who JNC is, but it's some state agency.
Anyway, they've got $385,000 in grants.
We have a $50,000 pledge. T has $50,000
pledge. preliminary design and detailed
design came back a little higher.
There's a funding gap of around
$144,000.
Um, in the spirit of continued
cooperation,
uh, they are requesting to see if we
would be willing to split the funding
gap. Look, it's probably one of our
worst intersections in in the township,
particularly at rush hour, and I think
this would be consistent with our
approach to continue to fund this,
consistent with like what we've done
with the Bach Bucks and Shield
roundabouts. We're looking at about 100.
So, uh I think it's like um this would
push our total funding commitment to
about 122,000, just under that. And uh
the county's funding commitment would be
the same. And this would get us all the
way through detailed design. Okay. Any
questions, Mr. Ray? All right.
Gentlemen, entertain a motion for the
mount for the approval of Mount Carmel
Tabasco Club Pike intersection
improvements, engineering, and design
funding.
>> Submit.
>> Second.
>> Any discussion? Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Logan.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> All right. Easement approval. Uh, real
quick, Mr. Right. Go ahead.
>> Uh, yes. And and just as as far as that
next item, that last item goes, we'll
put purchase orders in and everything
else. We haven't signed anything. thing
I just told the county I would get the
board to give me an affirmative on that
easement approval. So along Icults Road,
we don't have any easements for the turn
lanes that were installed 22 years ago
and we also need to have grant an
easement for the uh uh the box culvert
repair that's going to take place. So uh
just need permission uh authorization to
grant and sign perpetual and temporary
easements dedicate the rightway along
Icults and then also for the uh uh box
culvert repair.
>> Great. Any questions? Mr. Right. All
right. Gentlemen entertain a motion for
the approval of the easement approval
for Icults road
and storm easements clar county
engineer.
>> So move second.
>> Any discussion? Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes. Motion carries.
>> All right. Legislative agenda. Uh, I'll
entertain a motion for the approval of
resolution 2026-46,
nuisance vehicle abatement resolution.
>> So move.
>> Second.
>> Any discussion? Mr. Kim, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker?
>> Yes. Mr. Luth?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills?
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> Uh, I entertain a motion for the
approval of resolution 2026-47,
nuis nuisance abasement baitment
resolution. two addresses
[clears throat] 536 Old State Route 74
and 821 Whiz New Drive U first pin is
413 213 A's and alpha 019 second pin is
414236
B is in Bravo 014 move
>> second
>> any discussion Mr. Camp roll call
>> Mr. Becker
>> yes Mr. Lo
>> yes
>> Mr. S.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> All right. Next one is resolution onto a
motion for the approval of resolution
2026-48, the Claremont County Hazard
Mitigation Plan Adoption.
>> So move.
>> Second.
>> Any discussion?
>> Mr. Kim, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Log?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills?
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> Application. Uh, do you want to explain
the next one? Sure.
>> Township.
>> Uh, 202649.
So the Claremont County Engineers Office
advised us late, I believe in July,
Matt, was it that they were not going to
pursue landslide repair joint
applications. We typically do our
landslide repair applications through O
OPWC and piggyback on the county's
program. They're not doing that this
year. So we we uh contacted uh Miami
Township to see because they also
participate and they are not they were
in the same boat we are. And with OPWC
scoring, if we combine our projects, we
get better if we are funding partners on
a family of projects, we get better
scoring.
>> Yep.
>> So, we're looking at for Baldwin Road,
uh, I just got geotech consult again,
real preliminary, looking at about a
total cost of around $700,000. We would
only apply for a 10% match. There is a
$10 million uh township set aside this
year that we're going to try to shoot to
go after. And I think $700,000 would get
us a significant portion further up the
hill, which there's already what two
segments that are in process now at the
bottom of the hill
>> next next week.
>> Next. Yeah. So So that's imminent. So
this would give us permission to kind of
execute agreements, bring uh get
consulting contracts, do other things
just to get this thing moving forward.
Okay.
>> Okay. Uh gentlemen, I entertain a a
motion for the approval of resolution
2026-49, the resolution authorizing
OPWC, round 41 application union and
Miami Township slide repairs project. So
move
>> second.
>> Any discussion? Mr. Campbell, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker,
>> yes. Mr. Lo,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Dills,
>> yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> All right, next one's easy. Looks like
the disposal of the 2001 Pierce Aerial
Platform to the UTCIC.
Uh, gentlemen, I entertain a motion and
for approval of resolution 2026-50,
resolution authorizing disposal of
property to the UTCIC.
>> Second.
>> You want any discussion? Mr. Campbell,
roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> All right. Next one's then for the water
resources. Uh, gentlemen, obtain a
motion for the approval of resolution
2026-51.
Then now certificate for the Clement
County Water Resources.
>> So moved.
>> Second.
>> Any discussion? Mr. Just came. Roll
call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Lo.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Jill.
>> Yes.
>> Motion carries.
>> All right. Uh. Oh. Comments from the
board. Mr. Becker.
>> Uh, I did have something different in
mind to talk about for board comments.
I'm going to it can wait till a future
meeting, but what I don't want to push
off to a future meeting is is commenting
about the flock camera concerns. And we
did hear that uh tonight where a
gentleman voiced
uh his you know very legitimate
concerns.
When we first got these, the libertarian
side of me was queasy.
Um
and I was surprised there was actually
no opposition at the time.
the um of course as time went on there's
been no abuse or reason to suspect any
abuse at least not here locally in Union
Township and they've been
extraordinarily effective in fighting
crime of course you know the other side
of that nobody wants Union Township or
the rest of the country to be a
surveillance state so I do get those
concerns
um you know is is I think the the whole
board here agrees I know I've heard you
say that and I think as well as Mr.
still is that this isn't a hill any of
us are willing to die on. If the
community wants it out, then then
they're then then we'll take them out.
I've only heard from a very few handful
of people. I'm not even sure the people
I've heard from even live in township.
Some clearly do. Some I'm not too too
sure about. Regardless, it seems to be a
vocal minority rather than a prevailing
opinion across, you know, 50,000
residents or whatever the number is. I
did um yesterday had a meeting with the
uh with a representative from Flock. Uh
this was over at the uh police
department. Uh we had a good discussion,
answered uh my my concerns and um um you
know, I'm I'm I'm comfortable with uh
continuing to have those in Union
Township. And that concludes my remarks.
>> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Luke,
>> do they give you the unlimited password
and secret code so you can see
everybody's images? I forgot to ask for
that.
>> Okay, Mr. Becker's. So, everyone, uh,
John Becker and his phone number. No,
thank you, John, for for those update.
That's good. Um, no, I'll keep it short
for tonight. Just happy to to to hear
from the residents. Hear from the
residents. Obviously, things are never
black and white and super uh uh simple.
Uh, and so it's good to be able to hear
from the residents through and through
from flock to water and fencing and
bushes.
floor to you, Mr. Dills. Mr. Becker, I
agree with your sentiments on flot
cameras, so we're on the same page. Uh,
upcoming events, the next park
recreations committee meeting is
Thursday, August 13th at 5:00 pm right
here. Next township zoning meeting will
be Wednesday, August 26th, right here at
7 p.m. Uh, next board of uh, zoning
appeals will be Thursday, September 3rd
at 7 PM. Our next regular business
meeting will be the second Tuesday of
the month, September 8th at 6 PM.
Township offices will be closed
September 7th in observance of Labor
Day. Farmers Market is being held on
Fridays from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. right
here on the Civic Center campus. Pickle
Ball Slam is Saturday 8 uh August 15th
at 8 a.m. at Cleper Park.
And uh the Marty Connor Band uh concert is
canled in inclement matter. Oh, it's
rescheduled for August 28th, uh 7:00
p.m. right here at Civic Center behind
us. Uh, Mount Mariah Cemetery lantern
lighting is Saturday, September 19th,
uh, from 5 to 7:30 pm. and the UT
fireworks celebration that we always
have September 26 live music at RJ's uh
which will all begin at 4 pm
and concert or the fireworks at 8:45
p.m. Uh the our fire department has our
open house kickoff, annual open house
kickoff, national fire prevention week,
October 4th uh from 11 to 1 pm and
located at the water tower. And uh
police department invites residents to
local businesses to an open house
Saturday, October 10th from noon uh from
noon to 4 p.m. at the police department
building. and uh UT's uh sip and shop
will be held Saturday, October 17th from
noon to 4:00 right here at the Civic
Center campus. And trick-or-treating
October 31st from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Next
CPR training will be held with our fire
department uh September 12th from 9:00
a.m. to 1:00 p.m. And uh All right,
gentlemen. I will entertain a motion for
the approval to enter executive session.
Motion during executive session present
to Ohio revised code 121.22G is engulf
as follows. To consider the purchase of
property for public purposes, the sale
of property at competitive bidding or
the sale of other uh disposition of
unneeded, obsolete or unfit for use
property in accordance with section
505.10 of the Ohio of of revised code. A
premature disclosure of information
would give unfair, competitive, or
bargaining advantage to a person whose
personal private interest is adverse to
the general public interest. Uh, number
two is to confer with an attorney for
the public body concerning disputes
involving the public body that are the
subject of pending or imminent court
action pursuant to pursuant to Ohio
Revised Code section 121.22G is engulf
three. Item three is preparing for
conducting or reviewing negotiations or
bargaining sessions with public
employees concerning their compensation
and other terms and conditions of their
employment pursuant to Ohio revised code
section 121.22 Golf 4. Last item is item
four to consider confidential
information related to the marketing
plan, specific business strategy,
production techniques, trade secrets, or
personal financial statements of an
applicant for economic development
assistance or to negotiations with other
political subdivisions respecting
request for economic development
assistance provided that both of the
following conditions apply. The
information is directly related to a
request for economic development
assistance that is to be provided or
administered under any provision of
chapter 715, 725, 1724 or 1728 or
sections 701.073735.67
to3735.70
5709.402
579.43
579.612 61 to 579.69
5709.73
to 579.75
or 579.77
to 579.81 of the Ohio Revised Code that
involves public infrastructure
improvements or the extension of utility
services that are directly related to an
economic development project. and B, a
unanimous quorum of a public body
determines by a roll call vote that the
executive session is necessary to
protect the interest of the applicant or
the possible investment or expenditure
of public funds to be made in connection
with the economic development project
pursued to high revised code section
121.22 G is engulf 8. My gosh, what what
>> sound move?
>> Second,
>> Mr. Campbell, roll call.
>> Mr. Becker,
>> yes.
>> Mr. Lo,
>> yes. Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. We're into executive session at
11:46
p.m.
>> I was reading and I'm like,
>> you guys
see you.
>> Thanks, gentlemen.
You You can do whatever you'd like.
» I want to go home.
>> It is midnight. You know, we're going to
hear about this tomorrow
>> today. Back there.
>> Good to go.
>> She was just there.
>> There she is.
>> She's got thumbs up.
>> All right. All right. Uh, gentlemen,
I'll entertain a motion to exit
executive session with no action taken.
>> So move.
>> Second.
>> Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Log.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> We're out of executive session with no
action taken at 12:08 p.m.
>> Well, gentlemen, it's my
>> pleasure. AM. I'm sorry. [laughter]
>> On uh Wednesday morning, it's my
pleasure to chair the arguably the
longest trustee meeting in the history
of town.
>> You're proud of yourself.
>> Yeah, very proud. It's all your fault.
>> Well, hey, public public session, public
input. That's
>> can't wait to hear about this on the
news tomorrow. We just want news.
Anyways, uh I entertain a motion to
adjourn.
>> So vote.
>> Second.
>> Mr. Campbell. Roll call.
>> Mr. Becker.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Log.
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Dills.
>> Yes.
>> We're adjourned at 12:09 a.m.
>> Did you hear about the the death march?
[laughter]
» It's common.
Out of all the zooming cases that were
those