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Is this being recorded? I have no I.

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Attached or detached number of units per parcel, which is what Section 12 was talking about.

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The way the rules currently work is if you have three or more structures on one parcel, that would be considered subdivision law and that you have to go over for the planning board. The same thing is if you were to make three or more splits of land, but in a traditional subdivision where you are splitting, you're going to build a road, you're going to split land, you're going to split house lots out.

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three or more of those in a five-year period and you also have to go to

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Board of Planning Board. The state statute has changed it so that now the housing

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units, so if you do four or fewer in a five-year period, you don't have to have

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plenty more of you. So that goes along with the section 12. You have to about

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least three units if not four depending on the municipality. So the way I

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from the last meeting we haven't talked about this, was that so instead of going to the planning board it goes to the co-inforced officer and the standard is still applied.

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There's no distinction between the standards whether it's a four unit building or a four separate structures on a property versus eight.

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The difference being is that at four it would go before the co-inforced officer and the run to the same preview criteria and a greater number would come before the planning board to go through the same preview.

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realistically I think you'll find the tax structures in the morning not like a

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four unit apartment. Sure. Once you get passed three units you're required to

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sprinkle. Yeah, yeah. It's a matter of fire code. You wouldn't have to do that

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with duplexes so you could see two duplexes built on the same parcel. No spray. But

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if it wasn't a subdivision I mean I think we could benefit from the two

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break a lot minimum when we that's that's the yeah that's a discussion

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yeah we have you know we have that conversation a little bit of meeting

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I think there's going to be some of the concerns about this are going to be

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housing density you know that there's going to be too many houses so much if

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you have a bunch of wanting a lot of these in which there's three houses on it

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and you stack those along the road that's going to look pretty pretty built up

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I don't think a lot of people in the wine but also impacts you know your financial

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You know, you have a second acre that you used to be able to develop into this separately

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as a one acre log, but now you couldn't do that because you wouldn't meet them in a

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lot size requirement.

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Well, they're still going to do more than what they could now, you know, because you could

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put three instead of just one on each, right?

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So they're still getting gained, gaining.

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Well, you could do two on each, and it's still not going to be a separate vision.

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Right.

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The doubling the lock size, the, you know, perhaps unintended or

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secretary of consequence of that is going to be adding $40,000 to

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the construction for a first time all of our, they're going to buy a

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profit. So, you know, the intention of all of this mess is to

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increase the number of, you know, not that I'm, you know, I suppose

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to say again, I don't like this. I just like the state telling

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and every municipality, you know, sort of how to do things, rather argue amongst ourselves

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and figure out what works for every town but the increase in the lot size does harm

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to those who extensively were supposed to be helping, you know, the lower income and

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the people who were trying to get their first home were going to be hampered by increasing

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lot sizes.

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Well, the word about the people who are with housing, then we need to make sure that we do

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have short-term rental under what we need because otherwise you just kind of

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developers coming in and building houses so it does really I know that we're

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sticking to this but short-term rentals does relate to this so otherwise we

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won't have any homes for people because of they'll just be a lot of short-term

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rentals instead of homes but but I still think it's gonna benefit the people in

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a long run, even if it's, you know, because the people buying a lot, I'm going to worry

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about somebody being, you know, 20 feet away from their bedroom window.

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I mean, so I think it will benefit people that are trying to buy a home, and why people

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want to come to La Monde was because of the open space and, you know, having that, so I

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think if we do look back at the conference of plan, part of that, why people want

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to live in the Moin was because they had, you know, that open space and the land and so I

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think it would be something that I think people would want to see happening.

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Can I ask another question?

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Absolutely.

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I know what you talked about this at one point, but growth designated growth areas as opposed

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to, you know, we don't have designated growth areas here.

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I may be wrong there, but I didn't have the comp plan.

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I believe it's that there are no good grotesque.

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So I'm confused on how this, how so much of it applies to us

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if we don't have designated grotesque areas.

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Maybe you've addressed that.

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Yeah, so it's on that, the first page of it was in the packet

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from the planning board meeting.

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Not this one.

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the new one? Yeah, the new one today. No, the, it's, oh, the first one, what we've

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discussed, then we're more impacted for our last plan. Right. So it's that, that, that

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grade box there to set you. So it says, um, for any area in which residential uses are

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allowed. So anywhere that the town will monitor any other municipality allows you to have

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have a residence, you have to allow at least three units per parcel.

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Can I ask another question?

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Sure.

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So A says in the law, at least three dwelling units attached to detached, inclusive of

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accessory dwelling units per lot.

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So that three dwelling units, including, that would be the accessory dwelling, would be one

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of those three.

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So they could have what to do, question, and ADU.

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Right.

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So that's just a three.

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Yes.

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I don't think there's, I don't think there's setting aside as a distinct independent thing any of you at this point.

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No, anything that you could live in as a, as a habitable structure, I think they're just looking at as a residential structure.

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Correct.

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Yeah.

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Because it says assessor going unit.

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So, A, A, D, U's have, again, they probably don't know what they do in the morning, but in practice in my experience, now it's worth an A, D, U can have a much smaller habitable minimum than a regular apartment.

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We allow, like, about 180 square feet for an ADU for a tiny home touch thing.

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Whereas a normally gone apartment, you have to have at least 450 square feet to make it habitable.

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So that's kind of what the thing, no matter what it is considered, you're allowed to have three dwelling units on your back.

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Well,

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in the first one, LD 1829, because these are, that was an act to build housing for

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main families and attract workers to main business.

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Correct.

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By amending the laws covering housing density.

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Is that correct?

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Yes.

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The next amendment is an act to update the laws regarding housing development and a

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So that's where the density thing comes in because when you just said something about the

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requirements and it was in section 12A subdivision scope of 1829, which is it raises the exemption

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threshold from local subdivision review from two or fewer units to four or fewer, which

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And you said that and I just went by man I didn't quite you know get it in terms of because there's always been a five-year thing

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But it might be a little something on you if you had

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I've been 18 eight because I could build a place here. It's an ADU and then I

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Or I could go to and then I'll wait five years. Well, this is actually saying you could do four every five years every five years

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That's right.

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Assuming the septic sporting, yeah, and you have the average, that's a level on statute according to something.

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Yeah, but it's so, yeah, so it's structured on a single parcel and a traditional land split subdivision used to be two and two every five, you could do two every five years and it would trigger playing more.

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Now it's still two landspilates, but they allow it before dwelling units on a single parcel every five years.

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One thing is we're pointing out in this context.

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If somebody takes 20 acres in terms of 10 lots or 11 lots or whatever in our current system in the way we've been operating for years.

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But let's say you did that and you had, let's say you did everything on 10 acres and

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you had a large lot, you know, 10 acre, 11th lot that was reserved land or whatever.

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That whole totality of that property has become a subdivision and you then can't, five

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years later, take that 10 acres and turn it into another six lots or whatever, like once

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you encumber the whole piece of property into a defined subdivision, you attach all that

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property and then it's not it's not that same five-year cycle. Meaning, if you

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were to then, I'll say you did eight lots out of ten acres and you had one lot

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outback. It was huge. You couldn't then do another eight lots on that piece out

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back without running into the other review criteria requirements in our

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ordinance for common space and a bunch of other standards that apply after 12 or

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more. I think it is or 11 or more. Whatever the trigger the trigger is, where

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If you're going to do a 20 lot subdivision right now, we would be a lot more land and

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be a lot more owners for the developer than if you're going to do an 11 lot subdivision

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or a 10 lot subdivision.

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So that's what I, you know, while we're conceiving of how this works, it's probably worth mentioning

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about that.

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Well, you technically don't have that limit on structure at this point in time.

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Right.

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In my head, I think of subdivisions in town because basically they've always been landspots.

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Because if you're going to do a large development with a large number of housing units, a close proximity, that's a lot of water, a lot of safety.

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Generally, you don't see those sort of developments in these areas like limoing because there's no public water sources to supply them.

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That's another big limiting factor.

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It's a definition of law in the town of Illinois is, you know, it differs a little bit.

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So if you had five acres and you had a house on it, let's say you had a five-acre parcel

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that you bought at five acres, you'd never split it.

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You wanted to split an acre off and have, you know, for whatever reason, you want to split

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an acre off.

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Kid, build a house on it, whatever.

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You could just take 43,000 square feet, call it, and a lot.

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even if 90% of it was wetland is, you know, as long as you could build on whatever, you know, but if you're going to do a lot in our current language, you need 40,000 square feet of upland to develop a lot with NA subdivision plan.

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So that could mean practically speaking that you end up with three acre lot because a lot of wetland and a piece of parcel and you have a couple of islands of upland that you could have a spot to build a house, a spot to do a septic system, things like that.

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So the minimum lot size is dependent, it's basically 40,000 square feet, but slightly different

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in the subdivision than it would be if you were to just take an unencumbered, unsubdivided

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through a plan piece of property and divide it up.

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I believe the definition of a lot according to the town is on the tax map, is what you're

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paying on that lot.

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To Cree one or?

150
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Well, we certainly have lots of other issues.

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I've just stumbled into my, you know, the process of the five years I've been looking at it for 40 years and anything.

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And so I'm using it as a template for discussion.

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But I only have a short, very little left on my mortgage in the front, four and three quarters acres.

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In the back in the 13, I actually wanted to be clear as a result.

155
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But on the town, I paid taxes on that building and the total acreage.

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Right.

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In debt-by-definition, who defines the bank and the B

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or the town by what I think?

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The D is gonna be the legal lot.

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I mean, so the stuff you get from the town

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might as it a little bit.

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I own two pieces of property on sale-pointing road,

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or patty, I do, and we get one tax bill,

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because it's just easier for the town

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to combine those two properties,

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they buy each other, they're neighboring properties,

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and then I just get a single tax bill or whatever.

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But my understanding is the legal lot is what is defined and then registered and registered

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in D's.

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So even if we did a subdivision, so back to the Landsput subdivision concept, you

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pretend lots that plan gets filed to think of candy registry.

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And then every time one of those individual lots is sold, that also the transfer of that property

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to the new owner gets registered and is described and gets registered and all that stuff.

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The minimum size is 40,000 feet.

175
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Yes, that's what defines a lot.

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There are a number of legally non-conforming logs that were created prior to that, Chair.

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The state minimum for a septic system is 20,000.

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So any log, it's at least 20,000.

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It's a legal lot of record that it was that size before, whatever year,

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40,000 was adopted. I wasn't here to help. You could put three houses on 20,000 square feet if the law was, if such a law existed, had fatigued.

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I don't know if any law actually existed, that would have worked on in the moment.

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It's possible.

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At our last meeting, another, I don't know how practical this is, and as soon as it would happen, it would be out of the municipal co-enforcement hands, it would be a civil matter. But, you know, what we're having a conversation about minimum lot sizes and, you know, various ideas on how we could potentially influence growth in the kind of the way we're having a conversation here. There are, for a land split subdivision, there are covenants that get applied to those

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individual lots, you know, typically there, you know, you can't have farm animals, you

185
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might have to finish off your house with a certain period of time, whatever. I don't

186
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know how we would do it, but if you could encourage subdivision developers to the

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lot, there was a typical 40,000, there's no change to this minimum, or I'm sorry if it was one

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of those, whatever. My point is, is like, instead of getting three houses on every 40,000

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square feet of upland in a subdivision, if you have the covenant, say, you can only have

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one primary residence, you know, and that's it, kind of, you know, so that, again, if somebody would have

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violated that, it wouldn't be a code enforcement officer or an enforcement issue, it would be a civil

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suit between two people and one property in the same subdivision. So I don't know how practical it is in the

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long run, but... Well, that wouldn't be, if the town can't, can't, um, regulate the, the

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or something, you know, so it wouldn't be, you know, that'd be up to whoever's subdividing

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the land to come in, somehow or ask nicely.

196
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Yeah, the board couldn't make it a requirement, but you could say, G-Shocks, we really like it.

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Yeah.

198
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They want?

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You could say, G-Shocks, we'd really like it if you do that for us, you know, and you could

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Yeah, you know, we don't all that goes, yeah, well, I mean, I was been so success in, you know,

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leaning on the subdivision

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guys to do things, so it's, it's not, it's not on her, but we

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don't really know that we'd be interpreted in the law courts, you know, if you're

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a Covenant, so contrary to state law, then which one's going to prevail, right?

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the upshot if we were successful in getting something to try this would be that the town

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would not be on the hook for the legal bills to defend the position it would be right.

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I get a civil matter between two parties that own property close to each other so.

208
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I see we basically have two choices. We're mandated to incorporate the 2173 into our zoning

209
00:32:39,820 --> 00:32:51,660
So we could use it just to say, all right, we just take this copy it, go to our ordinance and paste it, and that'd be, we'd meet the minimum requirements, we'd meet what the state is telling us we have to do.

210
00:32:52,240 --> 00:33:02,780
So answer up to us, we want to take this and somehow manipulate it, so it's works better for this specific town, you know, while still staying within the guidelines of the bar.

211
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,440
We really don't have a choice about this here, I mean, it's here.

212
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,720
Right, so the only thing we've got to think about, not the only thing, but is how can we

213
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:15,260
have this less of an impact on our town?

214
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,480
And so one is the lot size, two, we've got to be thinking about, well, what do we consider?

215
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,740
What are some things we wouldn't want to see on the lot?

216
00:33:29,380 --> 00:33:30,780
How can we regulate that?

217
00:33:31,620 --> 00:33:35,440
And I think that would be pretty important to everybody in town.

218
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:37,840
Again, I mean, everything, everything.

219
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,100
So if we increase the minimum lot size,

220
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:44,900
we increase the cost for a new person to purchase and or build,

221
00:33:45,260 --> 00:33:48,060
not purchase but build, if we...

222
00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:48,780
We've got to do something.

223
00:33:49,460 --> 00:33:55,180
If we don't allow the rental of a secondary unit on that property

224
00:33:55,180 --> 00:33:58,260
that also is going to impact those who are, you know,

225
00:33:58,260 --> 00:34:00,440
that have less income to buy a free property in the morning.

226
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:02,400
So there's a ying and ying doll.

227
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,500
So if you, and, you know,

228
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:09,360
I'm not the type of person

229
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,560
who uses the language of, you know, 1%, you know,

230
00:34:13,700 --> 00:34:17,280
whatever, but to increase lot sizes and to make it more

231
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,280
expensive and reduce the revenue side for the average person

232
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,560
to be able to run out of a second unit on their property,

233
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:28,120
you are going to see in my estimation an increase

234
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:39,640
in a more and more affluent and, you know, narrowly tailored community than you would with the desire to have families in town that, you know, fill our school with kids and all that kind of stuff.

235
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,920
So there's a push and pull in this kind of a deal.

236
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:52,420
So I wonder if any thoughts been given to that the cumulative effect of having a bunch of one egg, a lot of seats, which has a set to system long enough.

237
00:34:52,420 --> 00:34:54,940
I'm allergic to support in three houses.

238
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,880
Maybe one eight blood and there's a bunch of land around

239
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:58,860
that's probably not a problem.

240
00:34:59,260 --> 00:35:02,320
But if you have a one acre log with a three house septic system,

241
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,100
another one acre log with a three house septic system,

242
00:35:05,140 --> 00:35:07,400
I may generally be judging you a lot of ways

243
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,600
that it's not gonna be, it's gonna be in a very small area.

244
00:35:10,860 --> 00:35:12,680
So I don't know if there's any income by now.

245
00:35:12,860 --> 00:35:14,800
So realistically speaking on a one acre log,

246
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,640
you'd probably be hard pressed to get more

247
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,180
than a six bedroom septic design.

248
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:27,840
So you're looking at basically 3-2 bedroom homes, you know, that would presumably increase traffic a little bit.

249
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:35,520
They may need to share a driveway just to make, you know, less, you know, cyclone and stuff like that better.

250
00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:44,480
But realistically speaking for such a waste water, it's going to be hard to put more than a 6-bedroom septic on a 1-acre wire.

251
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,880
So if you're looking at like three, three two bedroom, three one bedroom, some combination

252
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,820
there of at most.

253
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,340
You're not going to put three six bedroom houses on a one acre lot and be able to

254
00:35:56,340 --> 00:35:56,800
accept it.

255
00:35:57,020 --> 00:35:57,400
That's right.

256
00:35:57,980 --> 00:35:59,980
And especially if you have one right after another after another.

257
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,120
Yeah.

258
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,880
Well then that would also, you know, kind of point the direction then you would want two

259
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:06,140
acres.

260
00:36:06,140 --> 00:36:11,060
So then that could be three instead of, you know, so.

261
00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:20,060
So I'm going back to this idea of a Lancelot subdivision, but if you look at a lot of

262
00:36:20,060 --> 00:36:27,180
those Lancelot subdivision plans that have the minimum of 40, a lot of them have much larger

263
00:36:27,180 --> 00:36:34,840
lots because the upland that's identified when you do a Lancelot subdivision adds up to that

264
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:40,540
40 but you may end up with a two acre lot more or less and have 40,000 exactly on it which

265
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:50,000
so I mentioned that because practically speaking we may find a lot of limiting to the growth

266
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,080
that people are worried about you know the large large number on a lot small lots all it

267
00:36:54,080 --> 00:37:00,320
it may end up being that you end up seeing three houses on a four acre parcel because that you know

268
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,920
A huge portion of our capacity may be wet and not a comedy,

269
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,780
septic systems and stuff like that.

270
00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:07,240
So it may, by default, sort of limit us a bit there,

271
00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:09,600
you know, unintended consequences.

272
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,700
Another thing we've mentioned for those who weren't here

273
00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:13,060
in the last meeting, I think I posted,

274
00:37:13,140 --> 00:37:17,340
or one of us posed a question about the state's definitions

275
00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:18,600
on the subsurface waste water.

276
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:21,100
With the idea that maybe we can tweak that,

277
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,060
maybe we can require bigger capacity,

278
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,420
but we are found in hemmed in by the specific language

279
00:37:26,420 --> 00:37:28,420
of the state's subsurface waste water laws.

280
00:37:28,420 --> 00:37:33,840
So we can't, you know, we can increase our setback on the shoreland from 75 to 100.

281
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:39,280
We can't likewise increase the required capacity of the septic system locally by 25% and

282
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:39,380
so.

283
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,540
And the other thing there, you know,

284
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:53,780
if you're also worrying about a what if, you know,

285
00:37:54,000 --> 00:38:02,900
what if this becomes a problem, the way I've tackled that in Ellsworth is, well, it's

286
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:11,260
It's only a problem once it becomes a problem, and you can always make an ordinance later.

287
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:19,160
If housing density does become a problem, people are, you know, to your summation that

288
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:26,360
they are abusing the laws that are on the books, you can always create an ordinance to address

289
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:27,200
that apt effect.

290
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:32,540
You can never be able to stop them, the ones that did manage to do it, but you'll be able

291
00:38:32,540 --> 00:38:38,160
the stuff that went forward. So we kind of my recommendation there would be adopt this

292
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:46,460
stuff, adopt these statutes as they're written and see if it becomes a problem. If housing

293
00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:51,680
density becomes an issue, if the short-term rental stuff takes off and they're packing all kinds

294
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,360
of short-term rentals onto a lot, it wouldn't take very many building permits before you'd say,

295
00:38:56,420 --> 00:39:01,060
oh, this is going to be a problem. I just feel like we need to do it before.

296
00:39:01,060 --> 00:39:05,980
and not wait for a problem to happen, and it's harder to make it happen.

297
00:39:06,460 --> 00:39:11,340
That's what, well, again, you're welcome to it.

298
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:14,260
It's not an if, it's not an if, anymore.

299
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:15,840
It is taken off.

300
00:39:16,340 --> 00:39:22,780
It is the news of MDIs and news across the coastal part of Maine and most of the cities.

301
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,100
So, I mean, I had a question that was about legal, and that was,

302
00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:33,000
what if we didn't do anything? What if we kept what we got? What if we like what we've got?

303
00:39:33,180 --> 00:39:37,820
What if we'd like to see the court? Well that state decided that maybe they might adjust

304
00:39:37,820 --> 00:39:41,720
their thing to say, hey look you've got a pretty good deal, got a pretty good comprehensive

305
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:47,760
plan, you town's working all right? Why do you need, why do they need to tell us that without

306
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:55,700
at least thinking about challenging it? So that would go towards the letter that Mr.

307
00:39:55,700 --> 00:40:03,680
the Plegi Road in the last full paragraph he writes, I recommend that the mowing consider

308
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:08,920
amending the BLUO to reflect the statutory minimums. Minimum residents of dwell in density

309
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,500
standards and permitting authority ship.

310
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,620
So the extent that they may be available to the

311
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:16,720
office.

312
00:40:17,420 --> 00:40:23,140
We'd like to see him be an attorney that fights for us in the way that what we've got. I mean,

313
00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:26,640
I've been here long enough to watch the battle that we've had for the things that we've

314
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:32,760
done, and I'm not taking this idea, but I think you're right, we can do one or two things.

315
00:40:33,420 --> 00:40:39,200
We could adopt it as they presented to us, but we could say, what are you going to do?

316
00:40:39,940 --> 00:40:43,180
Are you going to take our little town beat up on us?

317
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,360
No, I say that position, but I take that back.

318
00:40:45,580 --> 00:40:46,480
I didn't mean to do it that way.

319
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:53,280
This was designed for public sore, public water, and density that goes this way, and I think

320
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:58,260
that makes sense and a whole lot of communities. But I don't know all of these other communities

321
00:40:58,260 --> 00:41:02,480
so I don't know how that means. But it seems like it's an issue that gets thrown out

322
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:09,740
way that, and you've been really going to presenting it. No, I'm not. You're just the

323
00:41:09,740 --> 00:41:15,260
messenger. Don't shoot the messenger. The reason we were allowed not to have a growth

324
00:41:15,260 --> 00:41:23,680
area because Fred Stocking was a lawyer on a group. And because we were so close to

325
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,380
Ellsworth that the growth area was 10 minutes away.

326
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,540
I hear every week people that live in North Ellsworth, they're mad at you because you live

327
00:41:32,540 --> 00:41:35,460
closer to the Walmart and they do and they pay the Ellsworth taxes.

328
00:41:35,780 --> 00:41:35,960
Right.

329
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:43,300
So I'm saying like that, you know, there's a lot of, you know, I think it takes public utilities

330
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:47,860
to classify to and the public until a century. Yeah, but it was also was

331
00:41:47,860 --> 00:41:51,080
could we close to all? Well, it's interesting. Surrey now is looking into

332
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:53,740
poking up with elsewhere. It's a sewer water.

333
00:41:56,700 --> 00:42:01,840
I would welcome it. All the way down

334
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:07,420
the water, down the sewer road? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it wouldn't. On the back? Yeah,

335
00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:12,560
I would absolutely. I'd be all for it. Can we get a housing? Well, it's a lot more

336
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,920
So the subdivision law that we run under is a state requirement.

337
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:29,420
We have latitude in there to set, can we differentiate minimum lot sizes, there's subdivision

338
00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:34,820
minimum lot sizes, X number square feet, and the minimum lot size on the piece of property

339
00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:38,260
again back to the, somebody has ten acres and they want to cut an acre off of you to sell

340
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:38,400
it.

341
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,860
You got their kid use it, that can be a different number than the one that's in the subdivision.

342
00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:47,320
You could have proved, right down, you could have proved whatever lot size you want.

343
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:56,280
If that's what the subdivision plan comes through and they can have a 5,000 square foot lot

344
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,720
and they have a shared septic and the shared water system.

345
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,120
And if they wanted to design that and put it in, you could do that.

346
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:04,640
It would be called a cluster subdivision.

347
00:43:04,820 --> 00:43:06,740
Well, we have a cluster, we have cluster ordinance.

348
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:07,320
Correct.

349
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,420
So, you know, when you mentioned that, that triggered that in my head.

350
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,860
So, that might be something worth looking at as far as, you know, maybe trying to manage this.

351
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,380
But I was thinking more on the traditional land split subdivision sense.

352
00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:23,620
Could we make a two acre minimum, 80,000 square foot minimum in a traditional land split subdivision

353
00:43:23,620 --> 00:43:28,780
and then the one acre pulled out of 10 so your kid can build a house could still be 40,000?

354
00:43:29,060 --> 00:43:33,120
Is that something that we could have as above board states fine with it?

355
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:38,920
I would have to look into that, but I think you can have whatever standard you want for

356
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,120
your minimum loss side of it.

357
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,520
That may be an avenue to pursue.

358
00:43:43,980 --> 00:43:48,460
To get the most of the loss, I think, and I haven't looked at all the transfers, so I can't

359
00:43:48,460 --> 00:43:49,640
say this with any certainty.

360
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:55,420
But the huge number of the lots in town, traditionally over the last 20 years, the Netherlands,

361
00:43:55,420 --> 00:43:56,640
what subdivision has happened.

362
00:43:57,020 --> 00:44:01,960
And certainly, people split land and give it off sale and whatever, but maybe we should

363
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:08,920
get a hard number on what that is or attempt to, but, if we're doing, even if it's 50-50,

364
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,820
if half the lots that are being created in town for the purpose of residential structures

365
00:44:13,820 --> 00:44:19,340
are within a subdivision plan, if those have to be two acres, then you're going to see

366
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:26,040
a buffer from density concerns within those subdivisions based off advice.

367
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:31,680
We couldn't stop three structures if accommodated by the septic system going up on each one

368
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,980
those last out again, have to be a private effort if they wanted to do it in a covenant.

369
00:44:38,060 --> 00:44:42,960
So the other two with our subdivisions, our last subdivisions, there are a bunch in

370
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,900
town that have been down along road sides and stuff.

371
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:51,060
But I think the last couple that have gone before the board have enforced and maintained

372
00:44:51,060 --> 00:44:54,900
that requirement that there be an ingress in egress.

373
00:45:04,820 --> 00:45:10,920
So if we have the buffering and we have, you know, a driveway going into a subdivision, even

374
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,720
if there was a three structure on every one of those, it wouldn't be public facing on the

375
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,200
roadway so much as it could be.

376
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:23,400
I just want to make sure I understand. So there would be two minimum lot sizes, one in a

377
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,860
subdivision? Maybe just the idea of making it harder for, you know, the first time home

378
00:45:28,860 --> 00:45:33,780
buyer, you know, getting started. I wouldn't specify it in a subdivision. You know, it'd

379
00:45:33,780 --> 00:45:37,820
be some type of regulation saying if you're going to use this just to build your one hole

380
00:45:37,820 --> 00:45:42,560
on, you've had the opportunity to go with the one-eighth. I mean, I worry that that runs

381
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,580
counter to the state law. The state law basically says if you have a minimum lot standard

382
00:45:46,580 --> 00:45:52,100
three is it. So we try to make it this lot standard only can have one. I think we end up

383
00:45:52,100 --> 00:45:54,980
If we were to challenge, I think you're correct.

384
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:03,640
Robert, what is the, when somebody comes in and buys a lot and wants to build a house on it,

385
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:09,800
do you have any idea what the average lot size is for building right now in in the morning?

386
00:46:10,060 --> 00:46:11,420
Like, you know, somebody comes to it and wants to.

387
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:12,020
I wouldn't know.

388
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:18,580
Now, most of them are, I would say everyone that I've dealt with probably his undervision,

389
00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:23,620
So they're all, you know, in that one acre plus or minus.

390
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,920
But it's not part of a subdivision.

391
00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:26,620
Yeah, I have.

392
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,700
I'm trying to think of one that I've dealt with.

393
00:46:28,820 --> 00:46:29,940
It wasn't part of a subdivision.

394
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:30,420
Okay.

395
00:46:30,620 --> 00:46:35,060
And then since February, all that large amount of time I've been...

396
00:46:35,060 --> 00:46:36,040
Right, right, true.

397
00:46:36,340 --> 00:46:38,500
Yeah, and my subdivision are all one plus, you know,

398
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,500
two or five acre lots or anything like that.

399
00:46:41,980 --> 00:46:42,860
But it's on the water.

400
00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:45,120
So you're generally going to have a high-ability density

401
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:54,000
the war front lots was the drum is just a valuable, full acre I think it's 43-50 or something

402
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:54,380
like that.

403
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:55,360
Yeah, something like that.

404
00:46:55,700 --> 00:46:57,040
I never remember the, yeah.

405
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,100
So our minimum of 40 is just under that acre mark.

406
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:03,320
That's a pretty standard, 40,000, 80,000.

407
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,240
That's, they rarely ever do the exact number.

408
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:13,000
There are a few, I think, I can't remember if it was Surrey or Trutton, has a two-week or

409
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:19,280
a lot, minimum. So there's other towns that, oh, for sure, it's not like it's a, you

410
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:25,540
know, oh my gosh, and people are buying houses and being sure. So I think really back

411
00:47:25,540 --> 00:47:31,240
about 15 minutes, I don't think we'd have, following up on what you said about us, standing

412
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:36,480
out around, just telling the state that, you know, we're not going to do this, you know,

413
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,800
we just aren't really opposed to it. I just don't think the town has resources or the guts

414
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:52,780
to stand up. I mean it'd be a bit great for attorneys. I mean this would be the legal

415
00:47:52,780 --> 00:47:57,480
costs I think to the town if we were to stand up and say we're not doing this unless we

416
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:02,360
had a whole like class action suit I think it'd be really expensive for the town to say

417
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:03,300
I'm not doing this.

418
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,980
How is, I mean, it's more of that in the last year.

419
00:48:06,980 --> 00:48:07,940
It would be expensive.

420
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,580
It only if somebody brings it to the, you know,

421
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,280
brings it to court and saying,

422
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:16,720
we wanted to do this and we can't.

423
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,740
It was, I mean, it's not like the state's gonna come

424
00:48:21,740 --> 00:48:23,840
and say, you know, you've done something wrong.

425
00:48:24,340 --> 00:48:26,820
And I, I can't speak to what they would do,

426
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,480
but you're more likely going to have it

427
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,480
to be a developer who would say,

428
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,320
That would say, I want to put...

429
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:33,560
Right.

430
00:48:34,060 --> 00:48:36,540
Every house is on an acre, and I want...

431
00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:38,620
I'm going to put 15 of them in.

432
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,880
You know, like 15 acres, I get...

433
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:41,780
Well, I want to put...

434
00:48:41,780 --> 00:48:44,460
On the state side, I would suspect that they wouldn't...

435
00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:46,620
They wouldn't directly lean on us.

436
00:48:46,700 --> 00:48:49,140
They were just a nice, every grand opportunity for all four.

437
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:50,360
I looked at them.

438
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,960
They had a lot of successful grants in recent years.

439
00:48:53,300 --> 00:48:56,400
So, that, that's, you know, including the implement at least now,

440
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,860
And for these, you know, all the hie pumps that are in every building, we're currently

441
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:05,180
putting in the recovery units in the school.

442
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,580
All the lights are being replaced from fluorescence and LEDs.

443
00:49:10,940 --> 00:49:14,740
Do you have a sense, Nate, on how many dollars, Laura, is the success we're brought in at the

444
00:49:14,740 --> 00:49:14,880
hour?

445
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:20,940
I think it's been just a third or fourth grant round, 50,000.

446
00:49:22,580 --> 00:49:26,380
But in regards to the law, they're not going to, you know, there's no way.

447
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,360
locations, other than if somebody sued us.

448
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,120
I think the state's going to do.

449
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:38,360
But you're much more likely to run into a developer who wants

450
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,520
to push it legally.

451
00:49:42,060 --> 00:49:46,180
Then I would assume the state would have time or desire

452
00:49:46,180 --> 00:49:46,700
to do it.

453
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,660
I think we're better off trying to steer this in a direction that

454
00:49:49,660 --> 00:49:52,100
we'll come to with as opposed to saying we're not going to do it.

455
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:53,680
No, I agree.

456
00:49:53,680 --> 00:50:00,560
And I think, but we need to do some things that make it, so it's not so impactful on

457
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:00,880
our town.

458
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:08,300
It's interesting, and looking up, I was just asking questions, and I get lost on the

459
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:15,320
computer sometimes, but nonetheless, one of the interesting things that came off as, you

460
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:21,900
know, under, I was trying to look to the definition of 2173, and how it came about, and all of

461
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:28,560
trying to get points of view, and I got directed to this commercial outfit called Canbury

462
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:35,060
Holmes, which is a commercial outfit that's basically building houses and so forth throughout

463
00:50:35,060 --> 00:50:43,960
the state, and they wanted you to know about specifically about LV2173, and then they started

464
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:50,860
listening, listening, all of the towns in the state that had accessory-joling unit rules.

465
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,240
And Hollis happens to be where I knew where I went to school, my mother lived there

466
00:50:56,240 --> 00:51:05,980
and so forth, and it, it, it, Hollis's ADU was pretty extensive and so forth, but I, it

467
00:51:05,980 --> 00:51:11,900
was a commercial company listening for anybody who was interested in knowing in specific

468
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:21,960
And so I'm realizing, oh, so those people who are interested in developing is about profit.

469
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:23,900
It's about making the living.

470
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,920
And this whole thing came down to me.

471
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:35,060
The acts were made for family, main families, and attracting workers with housing.

472
00:51:35,460 --> 00:51:37,660
Which has to, and the amendment was about density.

473
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:45,200
and that density is what we're dealing with because it really doesn't fit. It's a round

474
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:50,420
peg and square hole. It fits beautifully. It may be a banger and bath and all of the

475
00:51:50,420 --> 00:51:58,980
cities that have, you know, municipal, but I'm concerned with the possibility of our land

476
00:51:58,980 --> 00:52:06,240
being developed, our land, our community, according to the intent of the Moyne Comprehensive

477
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:16,000
plan, the intent of the existing main blue law and the intent of this 18, 24, and 21,

478
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:22,720
73, and how that meshes in coalition, and perhaps we've got an AI out there. Maybe

479
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:27,460
there's an AI that would take our problem and our concerns and be able to spit something

480
00:52:27,460 --> 00:52:32,500
back out, because if you're going on the market, you want to be bidding on that. I'm being

481
00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:38,220
positions here, but guess why? There are those people who are looking for where they can

482
00:52:38,220 --> 00:52:46,180
exploit the laws and the land and do what they want and it's good. The capitalism and

483
00:52:46,180 --> 00:52:52,200
people can make a living doing that and that's fine. But that isn't about affordable housing

484
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:58,460
all the time. It is, though. Fundamentally, then why is it failed? Why has it...

485
00:52:58,460 --> 00:53:00,400
How do housing projects fail so miserably?

486
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:01,200
What's that?

487
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,860
Housing projects don't exactly have a good record.

488
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:07,280
So the two sides of this coin, it sounds like

489
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,920
from what you just said, is the need for the housing

490
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,220
at that lower tier should be handled in a way absent of profit.

491
00:53:15,980 --> 00:53:19,240
And to do that, you're going to end up having to subsidize

492
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:21,100
it through municipality of some sort or another.

493
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,780
So you're going to have to have private industry to do the thing

494
00:53:24,780 --> 00:53:27,120
that the state wants us to do, right?

495
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:35,000
The state has identified certain, you know, 60, 80,000 structures that need to be built within a certain period of time to accommodate, et cetera, et cetera.

496
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:42,560
A, the government, typically governments, typically, are so inefficient that they're never going to hit that number by themselves.

497
00:53:43,180 --> 00:53:50,480
They don't have the numbers, they don't have the capacity. They would have to hire as an independent contractor, every contractor in the state to get out to it.

498
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:55,800
So you're going to end up with private organizations, individuals, companies like this, building

499
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,560
these structures in some way or another, whether they be homes or ADUs or new or renovations

500
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,600
into multiple units or whatever the case may be.

501
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:10,200
So I guess a little, I don't understand where you're getting to, exactly, I suppose.

502
00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:15,180
Because there's this issue between public housing, which fails miserably, and there's more

503
00:54:15,180 --> 00:54:15,860
socialistic.

504
00:54:15,860 --> 00:54:24,240
and capitalism where all of a sudden the last housing crisis we had was an industry that failed.

505
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,920
That was a subprime work at this point here.

506
00:54:28,060 --> 00:54:29,640
We're trying to serve the morning.

507
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,840
I'm thinking about people in the morning and what serves us here.

508
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:39,120
And if somebody could do this project and meet some of the purposes of our comprehensive plan

509
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,040
and also be thinking about what our intent of the intentions of the state

510
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:49,160
to provide workers, housing, and affordability comes into that.

511
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:54,680
We were sitting here two years ago and we got those first ADU things and we had the

512
00:54:54,680 --> 00:55:00,100
hand-con commission was talking about and that all got shifted and amended and updated.

513
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,320
And so here we are again having a conversation and I just want to be assured if there's a way

514
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:10,460
of assuring anything that people are looking at the fact that we, there are young people

515
00:55:10,460 --> 00:55:15,940
out here are a lot of young people who cannot afford to have even the right health care

516
00:55:15,940 --> 00:55:19,900
to go along with the housing and where your housing is takes a lot of your dollar.

517
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:26,480
So those affordable housing dwellets, what makes it affordable, I think, is the cost

518
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:27,080
of them.

519
00:55:27,260 --> 00:55:27,760
Is that correct?

520
00:55:30,060 --> 00:55:34,540
I'm just saying, on both sides of this coin, there are even people that have done whatever

521
00:55:34,540 --> 00:55:37,120
they wanted to do and they'll do it.

522
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:42,940
What I'd like to see is some reasonable capitalists that the people can make some money and

523
00:55:42,940 --> 00:55:48,040
expand and provide some services, provide some housing for people so that we're not in

524
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,400
a, you know, having to do this with Robert.

525
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:52,620
You could look at it.

526
00:55:52,980 --> 00:55:56,060
You could look at it in a affordable, well let me finish my thought please.

527
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,360
You could look at it on the formal side of things.

528
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,200
Let's say somebody built a new structure and they had a detached garage with the apartment

529
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:02,660
above it.

530
00:56:04,340 --> 00:56:08,480
Young family, you know, let's do the classic young family, two kids, you know, in school,

531
00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:14,620
you know, whatever, first to the fourth grade, they build brand new property, that apartment,

532
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:20,000
that apartment covers a proportion of mortgages in their property taxes, that does two things

533
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:25,500
that provide affordability for the family before and then presuming that the person or people

534
00:56:25,500 --> 00:56:29,340
that are renting the apartment above the garage, they're not in position or in a place

535
00:56:29,340 --> 00:56:34,600
in life or whatever where they're going to look to buy they would have a brand new affordable

536
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:40,900
clean place to live as well so you know and that's a purely capitalistic at the base levels

537
00:56:40,900 --> 00:56:46,280
like pure democracy in town at town meeting doing that is pure capitalism in that two people

538
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:52,020
are changing goods and or services and or labor or whatever between each other you know in a trade

539
00:56:52,020 --> 00:56:58,100
that's equitable and that they both see as equitable rather you know so so I think you can get there

540
00:56:58,100 --> 00:57:00,540
with this model as far as providing affordable housing.

541
00:57:01,020 --> 00:57:05,820
It certainly has the opportunity for, you know, bad outcomes for, you know, dependent upon

542
00:57:05,820 --> 00:57:06,740
the developer or whatever.

543
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:12,000
But I'm not going to try to blame developers, I'm just saying historically, it can be shown

544
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,800
that there's been an exploitation of certain things.

545
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,500
What I'm saying here, and I think still it's something I'm going to go along the same

546
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:25,120
ones, that if people had an additional sexually dwelling, it might make older couples have

547
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:30,920
a chance to you know get by when the money gets tight and you'd like to see younger people

548
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:36,300
have an opportunity to start but what are they going to charge if you look at what is being

549
00:57:36,300 --> 00:57:41,540
charged in Hancock County and you look across the way the manager of the state park any number

550
00:57:41,540 --> 00:57:47,400
we all know what people are looking they can't find land that's affordable housing that's affordable

551
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:54,240
or rents, and what's happening now is that across the

552
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,380
countries there's a lot of conflict about how we can come

553
00:57:58,380 --> 00:58:00,020
to something that people can have ownership.

554
00:58:00,220 --> 00:58:03,360
The property rights are about the individual who wants

555
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,420
to live and grow in the community, or just be

556
00:58:07,420 --> 00:58:09,940
there as a worker, working in a particular business.

557
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:16,300
But that rate of pay, I mean, who determines that?

558
00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:18,060
Is that the free market?

559
00:58:18,340 --> 00:58:18,580
The market.

560
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:19,200
It is.

561
00:58:20,540 --> 00:58:21,880
You're not going to see it.

562
00:58:21,940 --> 00:58:24,180
If we found ourselves in a position where we

563
00:58:24,180 --> 00:58:27,760
were seeing prices drop, we would be in a depressive

564
00:58:28,420 --> 00:58:32,280
economic state, which would be brutally harmful for everybody.

565
00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:36,360
In the end, so you look at the Subprime Mortgage Crisis

566
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,400
in 0708, you had a decrease in property values,

567
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,140
a huge number of houses that got foreclosed on and sat vacant

568
00:58:44,140 --> 00:58:45,680
for years afterwards, right?

569
00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:50,300
That was economically harmful to everybody, brutal, right?

570
00:58:51,700 --> 00:58:57,460
So the way out of the current state is where we have just

571
00:58:57,460 --> 00:59:02,540
ridiculous average rents and house mortgages and rates

572
00:59:02,540 --> 00:59:05,040
and everything just overwhelming everybody,

573
00:59:05,460 --> 00:59:07,500
is that growth component nationally.

574
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,700
They increased the growth in our economy.

575
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,820
So you see the wages rises and try

576
00:59:13,820 --> 00:59:17,600
and keep the inflationary side down and all that.

577
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,700
So I'm not commenting on how well that's going.

578
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,920
That's how every time we've had a bad economic moment,

579
00:59:25,220 --> 00:59:27,700
or we've had an increase in the 70s,

580
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:29,280
the increase in inflation in the 70s,

581
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:35,020
the Reagan did it by having Paul Wilger run the Fed rates up.

582
00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:40,300
You know, I had a friend, when I was 15 years old,

583
00:59:40,380 --> 00:59:41,440
I had a friend who moved out of the neighborhood

584
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,840
and his parents bought a brand new house

585
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:49,400
By the time they closed by the time the construction was done the loan closed and their rate was 17% on that mortgage

586
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:54,920
And they were so far backwards in their monthly budget to be able to pay for that they immediately had to sell that frame

587
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:28,680
House and, you know, go elsewhere. So, the corrective periods are not pleasant. Sometimes they are just catastrophic. But the growth throughout the 80s lifted everybody up out of that. So, that's why I'm sorry. I'm so appreciative of all of your service, but we're getting a little bit into, like, civics, I feel like an economics 101 type of thing. I don't know if there's time for public comment, but I would love to. We've got five o'clock and we're gonna, we were trying to do this.

588
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:54,320
I agree with Bob whole heartedly. I think that it's because of where we are, Hancock County with short-term rentals. I think it's irresponsible of us if we don't address that as part of this law.

589
01:00:55,740 --> 01:01:05,340
Under the main legislature.gov, they say, under municipalities and counties, planning

590
01:01:05,340 --> 01:01:10,100
and land use regulation, municipalities may regulate short-term rentals.

591
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:15,460
A municipality may establish and enforce regulations regarding short-term rental units

592
01:01:15,460 --> 01:01:20,200
in order to achieve the statewide or regional housing production goal.

593
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:28,200
For the purposes of this subsection, short-term rental unit means living quarters offered for rental through transient rental platform.

594
01:01:29,980 --> 01:01:47,100
They're encouraging municipalities to address the short-term rental issue because like Bob said, towns like, I mean, it's on their agenda this week for Tremont, Southwest Harbor.

595
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,380
You know, we can't, I don't believe we can ignore that.

596
01:01:51,580 --> 01:01:53,780
I think it's irresponsible for us to ignore that.

597
01:01:53,980 --> 01:01:57,300
And I, for one, yes, and I've said it, I have a,

598
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,040
I have an accessory dwelling unit.

599
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:00,080
I live on the property.

600
01:02:00,300 --> 01:02:03,120
I don't intend to divide my property anymore.

601
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:06,320
It's a good rental income for us.

602
01:02:06,740 --> 01:02:09,000
I'm not taking a house away from anybody.

603
01:02:09,220 --> 01:02:13,260
It's a, it's a seasonal, it's a seasonal rental.

604
01:02:13,260 --> 01:02:29,940
But, you know, there is an issue, and, you know, I've brought it up before at other meetings, there is single-family homes, year-round homes being rented for seasonal rental.

605
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,120
And that, and there's a lot of them in Lemoy.

606
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:43,600
I mean, I can count 25 on Douglas Highway and the Moin Beach Road, it's easy to count them.

607
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:50,680
So those have taken off the housing market, those are small homes being rented weekly.

608
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:57,900
And as far as I'm concerned, that's where a lot of the issue lies.

609
01:02:58,300 --> 01:03:00,900
And that's why Bar Harbor did what they did.

610
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:08,540
that's why other communities, because it's taking houses off of the market, out of which

611
01:03:08,540 --> 01:03:13,400
is increasing unaffordability for people, for young families.

612
01:03:14,820 --> 01:03:15,600
I don't know.

613
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:19,820
I don't think any of us don't think can do the short-term rental.

614
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,800
I think I think we all understand that that's there.

615
01:03:23,340 --> 01:03:26,880
Well, what I'm saying is it needs to be addressed as part of this.

616
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:35,000
That's why I think we need to write it into our ordinance as we're addressing this law.

617
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:45,980
If we don't address it now, there is nothing just like Bob said, there is nothing that's

618
01:03:45,980 --> 01:03:52,380
preventing a developer from coming in and saying, I'm going to, you know, whether it's

619
01:03:52,380 --> 01:03:58,820
lot size or short-term rentals. If we don't do that now, it's going to be a problem.

620
01:03:59,180 --> 01:04:00,260
It's already a problem.

621
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,860
We had something more than that.

622
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:09,820
So once again, do you have anything else you want to say, Don?

623
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:11,720
I just see them as too.

624
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:12,400
I agree.

625
01:04:12,740 --> 01:04:17,280
We can't close our eyes and pretend that that concern doesn't exist.

626
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:22,140
I think we do have to face the music on these days and that's going to be very controversial

627
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,840
But that said, that's just not what we're doing.

628
01:04:27,060 --> 01:04:28,480
There's two separate things here.

629
01:04:29,340 --> 01:04:33,840
One is to incorporate L.D. 21773 into our ordinance

630
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,800
with the state mandate and the other.

631
01:04:36,140 --> 01:04:39,580
And once that's in place, then it's not talking about short-term rentals.

632
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:40,400
I just don't see them.

633
01:04:41,140 --> 01:04:47,900
We couldn't amend L.D. 2173 to have the section relating to short-term rentals.

634
01:04:48,740 --> 01:04:55,020
But the actual act says to update the laws regarding housing development and ADUs.

635
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:56,460
That's what the law says.

636
01:04:57,500 --> 01:04:59,720
But ADUs are not necessarily short-term rentals.

637
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:00,700
I understand that.

638
01:05:00,980 --> 01:05:02,660
But it's not necessarily not.

639
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:03,000
No.

640
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,480
I'm not saying we don't need to address it.

641
01:05:05,580 --> 01:05:08,240
I'm just saying it should be addressed to two separate items.

642
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:08,580
Well done.

643
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,860
Other people, other towns are doing the consecutive, very at the same time.

644
01:05:13,100 --> 01:05:15,560
So that's why Tremont sent out the survey.

645
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:21,760
And they're still having to dress this law so it's not like you can't do it together. I mean they're doing it.

646
01:05:24,060 --> 01:05:24,740
It's happening.

647
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,340
Stacy, do you have anything you want to add?

648
01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:34,240
I'm just not sure that we should cooperate the two together at this time. We should look at one and then the other.

649
01:05:35,500 --> 01:05:39,460
We shouldn't look at the shoulder terminal as opposed to the

650
01:05:42,100 --> 01:05:45,000
walk right at all, as far as the long-term Reynolds.

651
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:45,760
What's that?

652
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,180
Short-term versus and long-term.

653
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:48,380
Oh.

654
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:49,040
Yeah.

655
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,580
And that's exactly what I mentioned earlier.

656
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,060
That's one of the things that Southwest Arbor has asked somebody to take a look at.

657
01:05:56,140 --> 01:06:02,020
Just an inventory, one procedure for an inventory, to come to our registry, like Ellsworth,

658
01:06:02,020 --> 01:06:04,480
and that they wouldn't have to be, what's that?

659
01:06:04,620 --> 01:06:06,160
That doesn't come to words to be, yeah.

660
01:06:06,460 --> 01:06:06,960
Well, okay.

661
01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:08,580
We're in the process.

662
01:06:09,180 --> 01:06:11,800
Yeah, whether it's long term or short term,

663
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:19,500
this, I mean, it stays to you and Karen and Brett

664
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:22,600
and Stuart all have rentals in town.

665
01:06:23,340 --> 01:06:23,840
You look like one.

666
01:06:23,940 --> 01:06:25,060
No, I don't know what it's like.

667
01:06:25,180 --> 01:06:25,960
I rent my house.

668
01:06:26,180 --> 01:06:27,320
I mean, it's not like I'm against,

669
01:06:28,300 --> 01:06:31,220
I'm not against it, but I think within that,

670
01:06:31,220 --> 01:06:39,260
That is a volume of impact, or just thinking about, as to what is good and bad and what

671
01:06:39,260 --> 01:06:41,940
are the issues and so forth, we've got it right here.

672
01:06:42,500 --> 01:06:48,480
So it makes sense to discuss it in ways that maybe you could guide us as a facilitator.

673
01:06:49,220 --> 01:06:53,680
But I agree with you, Don, that what's before us is this particular thing.

674
01:06:53,900 --> 01:06:59,620
What I keep running off about is it's an update and an amendment, but it's all dealing with

675
01:06:59,620 --> 01:07:07,920
the density for main families and workers equal workers because you know the

676
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:13,220
short-term the the islands troubled with all sorts of gaps and we're people in

677
01:07:13,220 --> 01:07:15,700
the and I've been everybody in this room can tell you that people have

678
01:07:15,700 --> 01:07:20,560
trouble finding somebody to work maybe not store it because they will have a

679
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,120
place to live to work is what it's about you know having a place to live to work

680
01:07:28,940 --> 01:07:36,780
I feel that we are stick to this. I mean, it's mandated that we have to do this, and I think that we are stick to it as it is the best that we can.

681
01:07:37,140 --> 01:07:44,260
I know it would be nice to try to fit it into the town, but I don't know if that's really going to be an option for us at this point in time.

682
01:07:44,260 --> 01:07:46,680
And, you know, we do have a time frame, it's going to be done.

683
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:53,680
And I think that we ought to kind of stick to this agenda on this planet and try to get

684
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:54,320
it squared away.

685
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:59,320
Personally, I could not like this whole thing whatsoever, because just as soon as we get

686
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:04,620
things squared away, they're going to change everything, and it's a real pain in the neck,

687
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:05,540
you know.

688
01:08:05,980 --> 01:08:09,840
Then we can also wait and see, because there's a lot of being up and done.

689
01:08:10,220 --> 01:08:12,760
There's a lot of people that's not going to like what I have to say about it.

690
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,100
But, you know, we're going against this affordability.

691
01:08:15,220 --> 01:08:16,720
I'm trying to make this affordable housing.

692
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:19,880
There's no such thing, unless it's government subsidized

693
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:20,580
or something.

694
01:08:21,020 --> 01:08:21,740
It's impossible.

695
01:08:22,220 --> 01:08:23,440
Things are not going to get cheaper.

696
01:08:24,380 --> 01:08:27,600
What they have to do is they have to have the young people,

697
01:08:27,780 --> 01:08:31,600
which are kids that we have raised,

698
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,820
they've been spoiled, they're not working half the hours

699
01:08:34,820 --> 01:08:36,640
that they could be, okay?

700
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:38,520
And they're not saving their money.

701
01:08:39,300 --> 01:08:41,900
And so therefore, that makes a lot of the reason

702
01:08:41,900 --> 01:08:46,600
why they can't afford some of this stuff, you know, they're going out and they're spending

703
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:52,420
all the money and they're working 30 to 40 hours a week at the most, you know.

704
01:08:53,820 --> 01:08:57,520
I think they're very good dream of everyone having a single day out.

705
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:04,540
I was like 80 to about 80 hours a week, trying to do it, but that's consciousness.

706
01:09:04,540 --> 01:09:11,460
I would push back on that, I'm 42, so I'm a little older than that, but I work my

707
01:09:11,460 --> 01:09:19,520
tail off for decades, and I can job barely at Ford, my house, and so, and I have a very

708
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:25,120
good job, the very good wage for this area, I can barely get by, so it's, and I agree

709
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:26,680
the affordable housing is an option tomorrow.

710
01:09:26,860 --> 01:09:27,420
Yeah, yeah.

711
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:30,600
It's, it's, it's done, because it's, it's made out of how hard you work.

712
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:32,720
It's paid for by something else.

713
01:09:32,900 --> 01:09:33,000
Yeah.

714
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:37,320
Ultimately, I think it's going to have to be close to having a partner building, something like that.

715
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:42,740
It's a single family home for every person, a couple of my things, just going to be.

716
01:09:43,020 --> 01:09:48,160
But unfortunately, when you get into that, you get into a whole other level of problems.

717
01:09:48,660 --> 01:09:51,520
Well, I feel like what's the purpose of this workshop?

718
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:55,600
I guess I'd like to know what the purpose is.

719
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,660
Well, the law in front of this is the purpose.

720
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:11,020
So what do we, I know we want to discuss it and talk about it, but also as far as

721
01:10:11,020 --> 01:10:21,430
Lemoine's concerned, how are we going to try to address some of the laws that are

722
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:25,070
in this to best meet the needs of Lemoine?

723
01:10:25,070 --> 01:10:29,110
So, I mean, so I guess that's where my question is.

724
01:10:30,450 --> 01:10:33,330
So I want to hear from the audience members.

725
01:10:33,970 --> 01:10:35,310
I'm not trying to put you guys on.

726
01:10:37,030 --> 01:10:41,130
The document that was handed out tonight was the one that came two or three meetings together.

727
01:10:41,150 --> 01:10:41,950
Right. And I read that.

728
01:10:42,010 --> 01:10:43,890
I identified the specific areas of our order.

729
01:10:44,010 --> 01:10:46,070
It says in the, you know, the amendments.

730
01:10:47,050 --> 01:10:48,770
To that point to do that question you made.

731
01:10:49,330 --> 01:10:51,750
I would, I would like to see.

732
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:54,630
and review this and maybe you already did for certain degree.

733
01:10:55,790 --> 01:11:00,130
Yeah, you already did. I mean, I think maybe it's a gift of language. Yeah, I think maybe,

734
01:11:01,390 --> 01:11:05,810
we'll touch on this at our next meeting. So maybe we take this home's homework and we review

735
01:11:05,810 --> 01:11:10,770
this and we compare it to our full ordinance and Travis and do that back and forth.

736
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:16,390
And then at our next meeting we talk about whether we want to make tweaks,

737
01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:20,390
the language or whatever as far as this goes, we can think we can miss something,

738
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:24,770
or something else needs to be in there and that might be the next logical step forward

739
01:11:24,770 --> 01:11:25,350
to be productive.

740
01:11:25,770 --> 01:11:26,570
Does that make sense to everybody?

741
01:11:27,370 --> 01:11:27,470
Yeah.

742
01:11:27,690 --> 01:11:28,470
I think it's ongoing.

743
01:11:29,350 --> 01:11:29,710
Certainly.

744
01:11:31,030 --> 01:11:31,390
Certainly.

745
01:11:31,390 --> 01:11:32,210
We just open it up.

746
01:11:32,310 --> 01:11:33,190
I said that at the beginning.

747
01:11:33,390 --> 01:11:36,430
If we don't open up and get the other thing out, we don't know what we can talk about.

748
01:11:36,490 --> 01:11:37,350
Lots of kid awards.

749
01:11:38,050 --> 01:11:38,150
Right.

750
01:11:38,330 --> 01:11:39,450
So I don't know either of you.

751
01:11:39,650 --> 01:11:40,090
Thanks, Brett.

752
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:40,450
Sure.

753
01:11:40,650 --> 01:11:41,110
Thanks, Brett.

754
01:11:42,110 --> 01:11:44,470
We're just here as part of this conversation.

755
01:11:44,470 --> 01:11:46,610
I'm so grateful to hear your discussion.

756
01:11:46,690 --> 01:11:47,470
It's always great.

757
01:11:48,050 --> 01:11:56,590
Yeah, that we're all participating in the culture of our town, but we're actually we fit right in line with what this was attempting to address with this new law.

758
01:11:56,790 --> 01:12:04,450
It's attempting to address some of the first time home buyer. I come from folks that my mom was like a cleaner for hotels on NDI.

759
01:12:05,250 --> 01:12:14,130
I'm so grateful that we get to live here in our beautiful house. We also have a rental. It allows us to survive and make it work here.

760
01:12:14,850 --> 01:12:22,310
But we do notice that there's a huge issue with these single-family homes being purchased in town by people from out of state

761
01:12:22,310 --> 01:12:27,550
And out of town and out of state or multiple houses being purchased by people from out of state

762
01:12:28,190 --> 01:12:34,310
We're seeing like I can tell you all the ones that we can see because all the they get their own trash

763
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:35,090
Make up, you know

764
01:12:35,090 --> 01:12:42,370
There we can tell all the cars in the driveway aren't from here and it does start to make our block essentially feel like a ghost town

765
01:12:42,370 --> 01:12:43,490
It doesn't feel good.

766
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:46,890
It was not what we meant to live amongst.

767
01:12:47,610 --> 01:12:49,710
So my concern, even regardless of this,

768
01:12:49,830 --> 01:12:52,510
I totally understand that it might be really challenging

769
01:12:52,510 --> 01:12:57,970
to, you know, even braid this in with another project,

770
01:12:58,130 --> 01:13:01,750
which is trying to regulate this monolith

771
01:13:02,250 --> 01:13:05,050
of an industry, which is short-term rentals.

772
01:13:05,490 --> 01:13:09,790
But at the same time, even aside from this going into effect,

773
01:13:09,790 --> 01:13:15,750
It does feel as if as a town it is our responsibility to actually come up with

774
01:13:15,750 --> 01:13:18,510
who's doing these, how many are there,

775
01:13:20,610 --> 01:13:23,610
and what can we do to at least not

776
01:13:23,610 --> 01:13:29,170
necessarily curb like in-home businesses that people have, but to at least curb

777
01:13:29,170 --> 01:13:33,530
people from out of town be able to buy four or five homes and turn them into

778
01:13:33,530 --> 01:13:39,630
short-term rentals and add 80 use on to them and sort of call a flower our town

779
01:13:39,630 --> 01:13:45,230
with these, you know, I guess, expansive ways to earn money. I mean, we're really just

780
01:13:45,230 --> 01:13:49,110
talking about money and this is what our discussion has been. There are people that are here

781
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:56,070
to exploit walls like this and there's predatory developers that will come in and just throw

782
01:13:56,070 --> 01:14:01,750
some money at a parcel and expand it for their own gain. What can we do to prevent that before

783
01:14:01,750 --> 01:14:06,530
it's too late? Yeah, we really appreciate being here and we don't want to lose the culture

784
01:14:06,530 --> 01:14:10,910
of this town, which, you know, I did. I love looking at the Comprehensive Plan because

785
01:14:10,910 --> 01:14:17,170
I'm a bit of a nerd. And I love that it says, you know, we really do, we, and we have

786
01:14:17,650 --> 01:14:22,850
Role Character. It's the 2020 Comprehensive Plan was the attempt was to preserve the Moines

787
01:14:22,850 --> 01:14:27,170
Role Character, maintain natural beauty, and support home-based businesses, which, you know,

788
01:14:27,310 --> 01:14:32,030
Karen's speaking about hers, we're speaking about ours while prohibiting large-scale hotels,

789
01:14:32,030 --> 01:14:37,810
motels and resorts, and I would argue that at this point, with the ADUs, it's a huge

790
01:14:37,810 --> 01:14:43,990
possibility for an outside person to come in and create their own profit from an industry

791
01:14:43,990 --> 01:14:45,490
that's already about doing that.

792
01:14:45,990 --> 01:14:48,610
So yeah, what's to prevent this from just being totally exploited?

793
01:14:48,770 --> 01:14:51,710
I would love to see the planning board come up with a plan.

794
01:14:52,390 --> 01:14:54,910
So I'm not pushing back on you, but I'm like I said

795
01:15:05,370 --> 01:15:21,150
I don't know how many people are out of town or out of state, but I do know that there's a lot of people that live in town and not in a significant number of them will take their campgrounds and then rent their home out.

796
01:15:21,890 --> 01:15:22,290
So...

797
01:15:22,290 --> 01:15:22,590
Right.

798
01:15:23,030 --> 01:15:23,530
How do...

799
01:15:23,530 --> 01:15:24,970
You know, it seems to be...

800
01:15:24,970 --> 01:15:24,990
Yeah.

801
01:15:24,990 --> 01:15:25,510
Do I hear...

802
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:27,090
I don't know how the legal part works with that.

803
01:15:27,250 --> 01:15:32,210
Well, in my impression, it's really about actually being, like, uh, let's say you own a home

804
01:15:32,210 --> 01:15:34,630
here and you can even do whatever you want with it.

805
01:15:34,730 --> 01:15:36,010
That seems totally reasonable.

806
01:15:36,310 --> 01:15:42,110
But let's say you're a corporation or an LLC or something that literally, uh, buys homes

807
01:15:42,110 --> 01:15:44,290
from out of, you know, from New Hampshire.

808
01:15:44,430 --> 01:15:48,230
For example, our house was purchased near us by a group of people from New Hampshire.

809
01:15:48,230 --> 01:15:52,030
It's they they're doing what they want with it which is to short-term rent it

810
01:15:52,030 --> 01:15:56,490
But what it's doing is it's preventing another family especially a family like this

811
01:15:56,490 --> 01:16:01,610
You know this new law is attempting to assist with having housing

812
01:16:01,610 --> 01:16:07,090
So I don't think it's about xenophobia personally. That would disturb me if I was if I was advocating for that

813
01:16:07,090 --> 01:16:13,130
What I'm advocating for is that if you have a home here you bought it you live here whatever you can do whatever you want

814
01:16:13,130 --> 01:16:16,750
But there's got to be a way to say maybe you know bar harvors

815
01:16:16,750 --> 01:16:21,790
I feel like, uh, dress this. Don't they? Like you can have a certain amount. You can have one or two.

816
01:16:22,370 --> 01:16:25,510
It's fine that those people from New Hampshire bought one. Live your life.

817
01:16:25,870 --> 01:16:29,910
But if they're about to buy three or four, that's a problem. And there, that is what's happening.

818
01:16:30,290 --> 01:16:37,670
If you go on Airbnb, they say right now that there's been an 80% of increase in short term rentals in Le Mans from 25 to 2026.

819
01:16:38,150 --> 01:16:43,990
So, you know, 2025, yeah, 2026. That's huge you guys. That is not okay.

820
01:16:43,990 --> 01:16:53,950
And it's because these these profiting corporations and again sometimes, you know, an individual but that's more rare are buying multiple properties.

821
01:16:54,250 --> 01:17:00,290
So, again, I don't think it has anything to do with even everyone in this room wouldn't be regulated in this sense.

822
01:17:00,630 --> 01:17:07,630
I don't think, maybe, he would, but I think it's really about actually maintaining the culture of being able to have a home-based business.

823
01:17:07,630 --> 01:17:11,430
and not letting electric lamp ground, we didn't want that as a town.

824
01:17:11,870 --> 01:17:17,190
This is essentially a lamp ground, again, if we don't curb what's possible.

825
01:17:17,650 --> 01:17:21,770
So LLCs, in my life, own multiple LLCs.

826
01:17:21,830 --> 01:17:24,670
And the reason I own multiple is because we have ample properties.

827
01:17:25,070 --> 01:17:29,290
And the purpose of the LLC is to provide me with a limited liability corporation,

828
01:17:29,670 --> 01:17:34,870
providing me the ability to protect the assets that I have literally sweated more for

829
01:17:34,870 --> 01:17:37,810
for being taken, if there's a legal challenge that I lose,

830
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:40,190
meaning if somebody gets hurt on a piece of property,

831
01:17:40,290 --> 01:17:43,110
I only can attach the assets that the property

832
01:17:43,110 --> 01:17:44,210
or the injury happen to them.

833
01:17:44,530 --> 01:17:47,370
So I think it's unfair to lump in the LLCs,

834
01:17:47,370 --> 01:17:48,890
because LLCs are really just a standard.

835
01:17:48,890 --> 01:17:51,090
I don't think I mean LLCs specifically.

836
01:17:51,310 --> 01:17:54,050
I mean, anyone from out of town that is incorporated

837
01:17:54,050 --> 01:17:55,950
in whatever way, again, maybe an individual,

838
01:17:56,290 --> 01:17:58,510
whoever is profiting off of buying homes

839
01:17:58,510 --> 01:18:00,710
that are meant to be for individuals to live in.

840
01:18:00,850 --> 01:18:04,270
So along with the folks I mentioned

841
01:18:04,270 --> 01:18:08,890
that have that live here and then leave and then rent and you know they of course pay their

842
01:18:08,890 --> 01:18:13,390
mortgages and their property taxes with all of that I live on seal point whether it's a tremendous

843
01:18:13,390 --> 01:18:18,550
number of homes on the on the shore side of seal point as you go down and I think you know let's

844
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:22,490
say there's ten down there I think eight of them probably have year-round residences the other eight

845
01:18:23,950 --> 01:18:27,930
are temporarily occupied during the summer there's the classic summer home so wealthy people

846
01:18:27,930 --> 01:18:33,170
I'll shut up long on the shore a good number of those get rented out and again those people are

847
01:18:33,170 --> 01:18:34,990
paying their mortgages in their property taxes.

848
01:18:35,710 --> 01:18:37,510
A lot of folks look at those properties

849
01:18:37,510 --> 01:18:40,010
as some sort of a net negative on a town.

850
01:18:40,430 --> 01:18:44,590
And certainly they are a residential component

851
01:18:44,590 --> 01:18:48,010
that could be occupied by a family,

852
01:18:48,290 --> 01:18:50,310
and those people could have kids, whatever.

853
01:18:51,150 --> 01:18:52,870
But those particular properties in themselves

854
01:18:53,410 --> 01:18:55,110
back to the argument about affordability,

855
01:18:55,590 --> 01:18:56,850
those are never going to be affordable houses.

856
01:18:57,010 --> 01:18:58,550
Those are $1,000,000 homes on the shore.

857
01:18:58,950 --> 01:19:00,430
Those are going to be $5,000 a month

858
01:19:00,430 --> 01:19:03,050
some of those houses out in traditional sense.

859
01:19:03,730 --> 01:19:06,230
So, along with that, along with them never really,

860
01:19:06,330 --> 01:19:07,990
truly ever being an affordable house,

861
01:19:08,270 --> 01:19:10,470
they also contribute a sizable amount of property

862
01:19:10,470 --> 01:19:13,610
tasks in the town that cover filing our school,

863
01:19:14,030 --> 01:19:15,830
our fire department, this building,

864
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:17,730
the salary to the people working.

865
01:19:18,130 --> 01:19:21,370
So it's not just, you know, it's back to the yin and yin.

866
01:19:21,570 --> 01:19:24,450
There's a lot of move on parts in these conversations

867
01:19:24,450 --> 01:19:27,550
and these ideas and I think, you know,

868
01:19:27,950 --> 01:19:28,670
it's these conversations.

869
01:19:28,670 --> 01:19:29,470
This is a pushback.

870
01:19:29,550 --> 01:19:34,930
And I just wanted to say that what you're doing is pushing back on that and listening and

871
01:19:34,930 --> 01:19:35,970
putting it up on the board.

872
01:19:36,350 --> 01:19:41,430
And what I suggest when I came in here is that the muscle group, the work with Ellswood

873
01:19:41,430 --> 01:19:42,010
is that correct?

874
01:19:42,330 --> 01:19:42,470
Correct.

875
01:19:42,690 --> 01:19:47,010
And you were talking about that in a positive sense because they were having a collective

876
01:19:47,010 --> 01:19:49,630
discussion and a lot of information on the table.

877
01:19:49,770 --> 01:19:50,210
Is that correct?

878
01:19:50,690 --> 01:19:50,770
Correct.

879
01:19:50,770 --> 01:19:52,190
Get about this particular issue.

880
01:19:52,410 --> 01:19:53,490
Not about short or rental.

881
01:19:53,690 --> 01:19:55,910
Well, about the housing densities.

882
01:19:55,910 --> 01:20:01,030
housing density, which is connected to ADU's in this particular discussion. And that

883
01:20:01,530 --> 01:20:08,830
self-established library tonight, the topic, cultivating yes in my backyard, culture, balancing

884
01:20:08,830 --> 01:20:15,630
concerns and opportunities in the housing development process, which is what we are involved

885
01:20:15,630 --> 01:20:21,290
in. And so, if the Muslim group is capable of providing elsewhere, then I suggest we should

886
01:20:21,290 --> 01:20:24,410
and maybe ask a question of that particular professional

887
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:26,630
to say, look, this is the issue.

888
01:20:26,970 --> 01:20:28,170
These are the issues.

889
01:20:28,770 --> 01:20:31,030
And then we collectively, maybe we are just working

890
01:20:31,030 --> 01:20:31,790
on one thing.

891
01:20:32,050 --> 01:20:33,810
Maybe we could, wow, let's just vote on that,

892
01:20:34,010 --> 01:20:35,070
and we'll take care of it.

893
01:20:35,270 --> 01:20:36,930
But this other stuff isn't going away.

894
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:39,950
If what you just said about you and what you make

895
01:20:39,950 --> 01:20:43,430
and what you can afford, then there are those of us

896
01:20:43,430 --> 01:20:44,650
who are lucky with land.

897
01:20:44,970 --> 01:20:47,970
There are those of us who are lucky with land plus rentals.

898
01:20:47,970 --> 01:21:02,590
And some of us have worked our ass off quite frankly, and I've watched you as long as I've been in town, and you young man have done quite a bit, and you deserve everything you work for because you're earned it, and that's no further away from you or you.

899
01:21:03,050 --> 01:21:14,410
But quite frankly, you listen about you, you and individuals, this is collective. This is the town of a boy, and this is how it works, and it ain't easy, is it? I don't live my easy street.

900
01:21:14,410 --> 01:21:14,910
Yeah.

901
01:21:15,190 --> 01:21:16,470
But my life that's not good.

902
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:24,330
So yeah, I don't, and you can explain to me, I don't fully, I don't think this is a workshop

903
01:21:24,330 --> 01:21:30,970
and everybody's workshopping ideas, but I don't understand like why I forget that, I

904
01:21:30,970 --> 01:21:36,110
get that you have an opinion that's different, but how like, is there a way that people in

905
01:21:36,110 --> 01:21:41,590
the market can also have inputs like that they aren't foreign is there a way that we can

906
01:21:41,590 --> 01:21:42,170
do that?

907
01:21:42,170 --> 01:21:47,190
and then my other question is there's people at the table that say we have this

908
01:21:47,190 --> 01:21:52,250
ordinance or we have this law that we have to write in and in their view we

909
01:21:52,250 --> 01:21:56,770
can add to it and in other people you you shouldn't but how do you guys like

910
01:21:56,770 --> 01:22:02,230
democracy there's democracy on this table because I've seen like I think I

911
01:22:02,230 --> 01:22:07,910
feel like some people are more important they would be a public hearing yeah so any

912
01:22:07,910 --> 01:22:13,230
Any ordinance gets developed, it goes to the slide board, and then there'll be a public

913
01:22:13,230 --> 01:22:13,850
hearing component.

914
01:22:14,010 --> 01:22:17,630
People can input how they feel about it, what they think is good about it, what they think

915
01:22:17,630 --> 01:22:18,350
is wrong about it.

916
01:22:18,670 --> 01:22:23,550
And then ultimately everything that happens in town, I mentioned pure democracy, is a town

917
01:22:23,550 --> 01:22:24,330
meeting, formal government.

918
01:22:24,550 --> 01:22:25,450
It is pure democracy.

919
01:22:26,090 --> 01:22:30,670
The decisions made by the majority of the people that attend town meeting, pass whatever.

920
01:22:31,390 --> 01:22:31,750
You sure?

921
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:31,970
Yeah.

922
01:22:32,110 --> 01:22:33,690
Could be 10 people, could be 500 feet.

923
01:22:33,710 --> 01:22:33,790
Yeah.

924
01:22:34,070 --> 01:22:35,750
So that's how that works.

925
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:39,890
But yeah, no, because I want I want to hear your opinion, but I also like

926
01:22:39,890 --> 01:22:44,670
Want to be heard. I even though you're saying this is not the right time, but I just was like

927
01:22:45,670 --> 01:22:49,970
Wanted to be heard. I just feel like what you said is how a lot of people feel in town

928
01:22:49,970 --> 01:22:50,450
I agree

929
01:22:50,450 --> 01:22:56,910
We know it's just it's like to disregard what you said is it's not that it wasn't just regard it

930
01:22:56,910 --> 01:23:05,030
I'm saying like there's a lot of people that feel the way you feel and in the in the voices do need to be do need to be heard whether it's a

931
01:23:06,170 --> 01:23:12,190
You know, another meeting and they can come and talk about it or whether it's an online

932
01:23:12,190 --> 01:23:16,170
survey, so they can give input and not have it like be front and center, you know.

933
01:23:16,910 --> 01:23:21,490
So I think it's a disservice for the town not to do something like that, not to provide

934
01:23:21,490 --> 01:23:26,350
that for the residents to be able to come and speak and give a voice.

935
01:23:26,810 --> 01:23:31,430
Well, and to your point, we're also, this is meant to address moral populations and truly

936
01:23:31,430 --> 01:23:35,930
a lot of folks that have this voice that we're close with, they don't have time they have kids,

937
01:23:36,170 --> 01:23:40,190
they have work, they can't necessarily come here right now, so we're here right now speaking

938
01:23:40,190 --> 01:23:45,010
on behalf of a large constituency who feels the same way. And we really, it's really a plea,

939
01:23:45,470 --> 01:23:50,890
I'm truly pleading with you to consider this, I understand the other perspectives here,

940
01:23:51,270 --> 01:23:55,370
I don't think we can solve all the housing problems in the world right now, I don't think we can solve

941
01:23:55,370 --> 01:24:00,230
all the housing problems in the morning right now, but I do think we can address one really intense

942
01:24:00,230 --> 01:24:06,930
broken dam which is this influx of short-term rental money that's coming

943
01:24:06,930 --> 01:24:10,350
again from the individuals or whatever whatever we want to say

944
01:24:10,350 --> 01:24:15,430
corporations whatever it is that's profiting tremendously off of our housing

945
01:24:15,430 --> 01:24:20,450
stock and I'm pleading with you to consider addressing that somehow thank you

946
01:24:20,450 --> 01:24:24,050
very much and I think it can be done together because other towns are doing it so

947
01:24:24,050 --> 01:24:29,250
you said 532 yeah we're right about there the the back of work conversation we're

948
01:24:29,250 --> 01:24:33,210
having here was just the back-and-port conversation and you guys you know give

949
01:24:33,210 --> 01:24:36,850
an opportunity to speak and I was not pushing back on you I was continuing that

950
01:24:36,850 --> 01:24:40,150
back-and-port conversation when I presented the other side or when I felt

951
01:24:40,150 --> 01:24:43,530
to be the other side of the presentation you think so it wasn't I wasn't pushing

952
01:24:43,530 --> 01:24:46,530
back I wasn't trying to be rude to come across my way please don't take it that

953
01:24:46,530 --> 01:24:50,930
way you know my point that I made a bunch of times is that these are complex

954
01:24:50,930 --> 01:24:55,270
issues and the one side always has the other side and there's going to be an

955
01:24:55,270 --> 01:25:01,390
effect. So it's 5.26. I know. But I'm going to use the chair's

956
01:25:01,390 --> 01:25:05,790
progative. There's been a lot of discussion about hours. And I

957
01:25:05,790 --> 01:25:09,530
understand a lot of people have strong feelings about hours. The

958
01:25:09,530 --> 01:25:12,950
town owns a very limited amount of town or property in town that

959
01:25:12,950 --> 01:25:15,970
the ours in town is all of the collective people. It's town

960
01:25:15,970 --> 01:25:19,850
meeting and whatnot. So the you know, the the ultimate democracy of

961
01:25:19,850 --> 01:25:22,030
town meeting may prove that it wants something like this.

962
01:25:24,770 --> 01:25:25,250
If it

963
01:25:25,250 --> 01:25:31,350
So I am uncomfortable with the language of ours because, you know, you end up with

964
01:25:32,170 --> 01:25:32,490
on?

965
01:25:33,170 --> 01:25:33,650
The ours.

966
01:25:33,910 --> 01:25:40,030
The idea that what I have worked hard for is somehow allowed to be influenced by others

967
01:25:40,030 --> 01:25:42,230
beyond the democratic process.

968
01:25:42,810 --> 01:25:49,450
I think the collectivist nature of ours is a problem, not that problem, but a problem.

969
01:25:49,830 --> 01:25:50,470
Not being rude.

970
01:25:50,950 --> 01:25:51,570
It's my perspective.

971
01:25:51,570 --> 01:25:56,870
I don't think they have a question ethic and several other millennial kind of things.

972
01:25:57,170 --> 01:26:00,910
Talk about treating the neighbor as you'd like to be treated.

973
01:26:01,430 --> 01:26:05,530
And that neighbor that kind of thing, I think, is a lot what happens here, but you know

974
01:26:05,530 --> 01:26:05,750
that.

975
01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:10,530
You've been here long enough, so you've made it, you know, you make connections with a lot

976
01:26:10,530 --> 01:26:11,270
of different people.

977
01:26:11,390 --> 01:26:15,190
And you don't always see eye to eye, but somehow you can joke about it a little bit.

978
01:26:15,530 --> 01:26:16,110
And learn.

979
01:26:16,690 --> 01:26:20,450
Because if I didn't learn something from Nate sitting in the back there, sitting on his

980
01:26:21,090 --> 01:26:25,590
I've been less of a human being, but I've learned from anybody that I've ever worked with.

981
01:26:25,730 --> 01:26:29,910
So this is another group and at 5.28, I hope that we can take this home.

982
01:26:30,530 --> 01:26:32,150
We got two minutes to get something done.

983
01:26:32,810 --> 01:26:34,330
Can we bump?

984
01:26:35,510 --> 01:26:36,170
I'm sorry.

985
01:26:39,610 --> 01:26:41,070
We're obviously going to need some more of these.

986
01:26:41,930 --> 01:26:43,310
Yeah, we'll touch you in the next meeting.

987
01:26:43,310 --> 01:26:46,530
Our next meeting will actually have a section in the agenda on this.

988
01:26:46,530 --> 01:26:50,910
I think probably the productive thing there would be to go through this list.

989
01:26:51,210 --> 01:26:54,350
Like I said before we get to the meeting and then whatever notes people want to bring

990
01:26:54,350 --> 01:26:58,950
to the meeting regarding the recommendation that was in this particular document we can

991
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:59,570
work out with that.

992
01:26:59,710 --> 01:27:00,310
Does that make sense?

993
01:27:00,750 --> 01:27:02,350
Can we put this specifically on the agenda?

994
01:27:02,830 --> 01:27:03,710
Yeah, I want to.

995
01:27:03,950 --> 01:27:07,630
I mean that way we will take care of it because it's part of the process.

996
01:27:07,730 --> 01:27:11,890
I also have a question about the site clear review when we change that checklist.

997
01:27:12,110 --> 01:27:13,250
This is not what you guys said that.

998
01:27:13,770 --> 01:27:14,530
Did that ever get?

999
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:15,210
Thank you.

1000
01:27:15,630 --> 01:27:17,130
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1001
01:27:17,470 --> 01:27:18,750
Did that ever get updated?

1002
01:27:19,090 --> 01:27:21,550
I don't know. I was wondering about that yesterday.

1003
01:27:22,030 --> 01:27:23,510
It might be worth running that by.

1004
01:27:23,610 --> 01:27:24,190
If you want to send me a mail.

1005
01:27:24,190 --> 01:27:24,830
Would that be two?

1006
01:27:24,990 --> 01:27:25,450
Yeah, he did.

1007
01:27:25,550 --> 01:27:26,330
One that we dropped up.

1008
01:27:26,370 --> 01:27:27,470
Any changes to that sheet.

1009
01:27:27,730 --> 01:27:29,010
Okay. So this was the

1010
01:27:29,370 --> 01:27:30,470
modifications to the application.

1011
01:27:31,170 --> 01:27:32,670
Yeah, there was a couple of things that

1012
01:27:33,330 --> 01:27:34,990
Val suggested that we add to.

1013
01:27:35,130 --> 01:27:36,770
That, you know, very top of the list.

1014
01:27:36,970 --> 01:27:37,090
Yeah.

1015
01:27:37,630 --> 01:27:39,850
I mean, there's one last thing I was going to say is that, you know,

1016
01:27:40,890 --> 01:27:42,310
what I said before about, you know,

1017
01:27:43,010 --> 01:27:44,130
worrying about the what if

1018
01:27:44,650 --> 01:27:53,310
that what I was trying to say with that is that, you know, we have a mandate to enact 18-20,

1019
01:27:53,570 --> 01:27:53,910
right?

1020
01:27:54,190 --> 01:27:56,030
When I was 20, I was 17, I get all 100.

1021
01:27:56,410 --> 01:27:56,750
You know what I'm saying?

1022
01:27:56,930 --> 01:27:57,570
I deal with it every day.

1023
01:27:58,090 --> 01:28:00,610
So that really should be the focus of what we're doing here.

1024
01:28:00,850 --> 01:28:05,050
And the short-term analysis of what we're doing here, and any of that, that's all valid.

1025
01:28:05,550 --> 01:28:08,070
And I deal with that every day too, and that was worth it.

1026
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:12,630
I think what, you know, you can develop them on parallel tracks.

1027
01:28:12,630 --> 01:28:19,710
They don't necessarily have to be interlinked, you can do it together, not necessarily mix them.

1028
01:28:19,790 --> 01:28:25,650
So we really should focus on getting the LD1829 and 2173 stuff

1029
01:28:26,610 --> 01:28:31,670
migrated into the land use ordinance, but we can also work on short-term

1030
01:28:31,670 --> 01:28:37,570
house stuff if that's, if the town wants to pursue that, I'm also happy to help with that.

1031
01:28:37,570 --> 01:28:42,370
And you know, we can have other workshops on that and I can come over and I have a lot

1032
01:28:42,370 --> 01:28:44,190
of information in my brain about that stuff too.

1033
01:28:45,070 --> 01:28:48,490
I mean, because we think I'm going back to Tremont just because they're dealing with

1034
01:28:48,490 --> 01:28:53,350
this law, but they're also dealing with, you know, getting input from the town from residents

1035
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:54,430
about structural and mental.

1036
01:28:54,570 --> 01:28:58,170
So, I mean, there's no reason why it can't be too, too proud of that.

1037
01:28:58,170 --> 01:28:59,130
Here, parallel law.

1038
01:28:59,650 --> 01:28:59,790
Right.

1039
01:29:00,090 --> 01:29:01,290
I don't think they can't be together.

1040
01:29:01,750 --> 01:29:03,010
No, I know it's two different things.

1041
01:29:03,010 --> 01:29:10,870
Yeah, so we need to get this, the LV stuff done for the town meeting.

1042
01:29:11,150 --> 01:29:15,010
So I guess I'd like to know, I know what you've written out here, right?

1043
01:29:15,190 --> 01:29:17,650
So my question going back is what I say, what was the purpose?

1044
01:29:19,330 --> 01:29:25,610
The town, I mean, within the law, it's saying we can do some guidelines, like say, can we

1045
01:29:25,610 --> 01:29:31,150
put in there, like we wouldn't want, I'm just throwing this out there, you know, like

1046
01:29:31,150 --> 01:29:37,630
say three trailers on one you know can we can we define like what we would

1047
01:29:37,630 --> 01:29:43,850
want on a residential you know like what structures we would want yes I know

1048
01:29:43,850 --> 01:29:49,930
Al's work did but I believe this statute limits your ability I'm not gonna say

1049
01:29:49,930 --> 01:29:54,190
totally gets rid of it but I think it's probably military ability to sell you

1050
01:29:54,190 --> 01:29:54,970
You know, no bobo.

1051
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:26,500
I'm not saying, well, I mean, is there any kind of, you know, way we could regulate some of what could be or no? I mean, not really? That's probably above my pay rate to say yes or no on that, but it'd be more of selling. Yeah, I think it was zoning. You can say, like, no, mobile homes, but I don't think you can say, like, you know, I don't know how granular you want to get on that. So that would be, I have nothing to get small homes.

1052
01:30:26,500 --> 01:30:29,020
My, my mother-in-law lives in a mobile home.

1053
01:30:29,180 --> 01:30:32,040
I mean, I'm just saying that's just an example.

1054
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:32,960
Yeah, you know.

1055
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:37,080
So, on the mobile home statement, I have two mobile homes

1056
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:38,740
and a year-round rentals for families.

1057
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:41,120
They are cheap and affordable.

1058
01:30:41,540 --> 01:30:44,540
They do work and they all don't look like a mobile home

1059
01:30:44,540 --> 01:30:45,580
marketable housing.

1060
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:46,120
Yeah.

1061
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:49,620
They're under $100,000 and they can put families up.

1062
01:30:49,900 --> 01:30:53,180
Because the stigma is about that, but if you look at the short,

1063
01:30:53,180 --> 01:31:00,260
So look at the tiny houses right now that are about $100,000 that happen to be on wheels,

1064
01:31:00,700 --> 01:31:06,580
but they fulfill a lot of the potential for somebody to have affordable housing.

1065
01:31:07,620 --> 01:31:13,700
So I think it has to be considered, you know, the edict with mobile parks is a stigma,

1066
01:31:13,860 --> 01:31:14,260
or whatever.

1067
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:18,400
Well, it's about always taking care of, you know, but I'm thinking of some park that aren't

1068
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:21,060
taking care of, you know, sometimes they can not look, you know.

1069
01:31:21,100 --> 01:31:22,000
No, I'm just doing it.

1070
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:26,080
I mean, I don't think yours are, you know what I'm saying, some people do, but we are here

1071
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:31,040
about affordable housing, okay, and we're trying to keep it on affordable housing because

1072
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:36,020
mobile homes are a part of it, and town really doesn't like them, but they do wear it.

1073
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:41,400
I think we really have to stay focused, like Robert said, on getting, I mean, we have two

1074
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:41,620
things.

1075
01:31:41,820 --> 01:31:46,060
One is mandated, and the other one is something that's just up for discussion, and we didn't

1076
01:31:46,060 --> 01:31:47,440
really know where we want to go with that.

1077
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:50,860
So I think we have to, it was like the show line's only.

1078
01:31:51,300 --> 01:31:52,800
I'm sure when the show line's only game,

1079
01:31:53,340 --> 01:31:54,800
there's a lot of controversy surrounding it,

1080
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:56,640
but the data in the town had no option.

1081
01:31:56,980 --> 01:31:58,320
It had to be implemented to show line's only.

1082
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:00,580
And this is the same thing. It's coming down from the

1083
01:32:00,580 --> 01:32:02,180
gothsteria scene. This is what you got to do.

1084
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:07,300
And we can, you know, for sure, the easiest way

1085
01:32:07,300 --> 01:32:09,180
to just cut and paste, like I said.

1086
01:32:09,820 --> 01:32:11,040
But, you know, if we want to try and,

1087
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:13,120
I think we can, might be some room for things

1088
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:14,960
like different lock sizes or something like that,

1089
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:20,020
But I think if we really stop widening the scope of what we're considering here, we're

1090
01:32:20,020 --> 01:32:21,600
just going to kind of get lost in the mud.

1091
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:27,920
On that idea of law sides, does the board feel comfortable requesting Robert to look

1092
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:34,160
into whether you could find support for the idea of a subdivision having a bigger minimum

1093
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:39,100
law size than, you know, just a standard lot that's been created off a bigger lot?

1094
01:32:39,480 --> 01:32:41,500
I can certainly look at that.

1095
01:32:41,500 --> 01:32:43,100
Do we all feel comfortable out of the basket?

1096
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:46,120
Is there any way you can state that to me in an email?

1097
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:46,780
Sure.

1098
01:32:46,980 --> 01:32:49,020
I don't know if you remember how you said that.

1099
01:32:49,420 --> 01:32:53,980
Well, the idea being minimum loss size of 8,000 square feet in a subdivision,

1100
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:59,240
and then if somebody just takes an acre off of 10 to let the kid go and house that only needs to go.

1101
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:00,740
I can look it up.

1102
01:33:01,420 --> 01:33:02,960
I don't think that's going to fly.

1103
01:33:04,180 --> 01:33:05,500
I don't question the answer.

1104
01:33:05,700 --> 01:33:07,280
My gut says it won't fly.

1105
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:16,360
But okay, so say you had a three acre line is that end if you subdivide that is that considered a that's not considered a

1106
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:23,880
subject. So if you had a lot of any size and you just wouldn't have you can do that and then if I you can take 100 acres and make it 50 and then

1107
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:32,340
five years later you can make two cities and make it four to five. So if you had a three acre log and you put it in the three one acre

1108
01:33:32,340 --> 01:33:35,720
lots, and you were not selling them to family. You were just

1109
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,380
putting them out there for the general public to buy. That

1110
01:33:38,380 --> 01:33:40,040
would be considered a separate decision. They would have to

1111
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:43,340
get. Okay, so that's my question. But they they put it

1112
01:33:43,340 --> 01:33:46,760
once and then put it again in five years. That's not that

1113
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,380
would not. That would not be where they're being stupid.

1114
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:51,800
No, wrong.

1115
01:33:56,170 --> 01:33:57,910
Way too much grinning in the back.

1116
01:34:00,870 --> 01:34:02,010
Okay. Thank you, everybody.

1117
01:34:02,630 --> 01:34:02,990
Thank you.

1118
01:34:05,630 --> 01:34:12,490
I think that the committee does to turn on the camera or is it all automated?

1119
01:34:12,770 --> 01:34:19,650
Stu and or whomever manages their tech I think pre-programs and so I don't know you know years ago beyond

1120
01:34:19,650 --> 01:34:23,850
air light used to work my understanding with that particular thing is that there was an expensive component

1121
01:34:23,850 --> 01:34:30,010
in the tech room that failed and it was due expensive to fix it so we no longer have the benefit of beyond

1122
01:34:30,010 --> 01:34:32,870
on that light, so as far as that goes.

1123
01:34:33,130 --> 01:34:34,750
I don't know what is scheduled.

1124
01:34:35,950 --> 01:34:40,330
He had put a note for us that it was going to start,

1125
01:34:40,530 --> 01:34:42,890
so it'd be to feel like he would have programmed it

1126
01:34:42,890 --> 01:34:44,230
for, oh, it didn't.

1127
01:34:44,270 --> 01:34:46,790
No, I've been trying to, I couldn't get here to London,

1128
01:34:47,070 --> 01:34:48,450
and it has said that there's not.

1129
01:34:48,830 --> 01:34:49,810
Oh, oh, yeah.

1130
01:34:50,150 --> 01:34:51,030
Pretty question.

1131
01:34:51,390 --> 01:34:56,270
Yeah, that comes down just as long as, yeah.

1132
01:34:57,010 --> 01:34:58,670
Well, it's a medical school or a child.

1133
01:34:59,210 --> 01:35:00,250
How many people are there?

1134
01:35:01,030 --> 01:35:03,170
What's the meaning of this?

1135
01:35:03,610 --> 01:35:06,610
You need to see a sound wave when you're out there.