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Welcome to the August 18th general session meeting. The city clerk previously took role. At this time, Sean Matlock, our Director of Community Services. I got that wrong, didn't I? Interim, okay. I think of you as a director. We'll lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. Immediately following Pastor Eric Clawson, Christ Lutheran will lead the invocation. Good evening. If you're able, please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. Place your right hand over your hand.

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I pledge allegiance to the fire of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with their duty and justice for all.

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Please remain standing for the invocation.

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Please pray with me. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this city and the gift that it is.

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Lord, I thank you for everyone here and the heart that you've given them to care about

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their community and to give up their evening for the sake of this community.

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Lord, I pray that you would bring three blessings upon tonight.

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One I pray that you would let everyone here speak courageously to the truth that they know

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it and humbly speak their truth and Lord, I pray that you would also give them grace to

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listen and that to everyone Lord, you would let them assume the best and others as they

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speak and give them to the grace to truly hear what they say. Lord, also, I pray that

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you would bring a blessing of wisdom that you would let minds be discerning, that they

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could see what would be the greatest blessing to this place, that they would act justly and

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righteously. Lord, I thank you that you've called these people together. Now, please guide

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them. I pray this all and your gracious son, Jesus Christ's name. Amen. Thank you. Thank you,

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pastor. And thank you, Sean.

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Next we have community announcements. Blair, would you like to start?

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The Bray Police Department is proud to offer a free nine week citizen academy program designed

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to give residents an insider look at police operations. Participants will gain first hand knowledge

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from police officers and detectives, learn about patrol procedures, investigations,

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canine units and more.

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The program is open to Brea residents 18 years or older who live or work in the city.

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To apply for the Citizens Academy, please visit BreaPolice.gov.

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Applications are due Monday, August 31st.

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Do you know an individual or group that is making a positive impact in the Brea community

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through the arts?

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The City of Brea would like to recognize them for their efforts during art and humanities

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month in October.

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The purpose of this initiative is to recognize and celebrate those making an impact on

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the Brea community through arts, culture, and humanities.

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Nominations are currently being accepted until September of the 2nd and you can visit the

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City website to submit to your nomination.

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Save the date for this year's State of the City taking place on Tuesday, September 15th

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during the City Council General Session portion of our meeting.

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Mayor Huff, along with Brea City staff, will recap accomplishments, celebrate the community

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and preview goals for the year ahead.

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Topics to be covered include development, public safety and more.

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You can watch the state of the city in person or online at your convenience.

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It will be available to view on demand on the City of Brea YouTube channel starting September

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16th.

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For more viewing details, please visit the city's website.

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Right.

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Orange County, mosquito and vector control district has confirmed an outbreak of a mosquito-borne

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illness that can be deadly.

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Residents can do their part by reducing sources from mosquito larvae to grow.

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Standing water should be dumped and drained once a week.

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By doing so, any bacteria or larvae growing in the water will be killed.

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Visit ocvector.org to learn more about the West Nile virus and learn how to take action against

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mosquitoes and prevent the spread of diseases.

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I'd like to add on to that that we got word this morning that a west now

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positive mosquito was detected in the city of Braya so far we've been able

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to avoid that but it was in the far west portion of our community so it's

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really really important that we all police our yards make sure that we get rid

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of standing water and make sure that we keep those mosquitoes out and when

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you're outside spray yourself so at this time assistant city manager

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community development director Killebrew and public works director Ho will

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provide the community development public works update great thank you Mayor the

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public works department continues working throughout the city on slurry

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ceiling street projects this includes crack ceiling and the slurry seal to prevent

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pavement surface as it prolongs the useful ice of asphalt crack ceiling began

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yesterday on blossom and lotus place skyward blaho and Sonora streets and the

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this Thursday and Friday, August 20, and 21st, with the street closures from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m.

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The residents have already been notified.

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And last week, street street ceiling was completed in the Corsican villas on Tanglewood, Foxwood, and Kerrwood streets.

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And lastly, all the streets in the residential track, bounded by Brea Boulevard, Imperial Highway, Elm Street, and State College Boulevard.

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those are my updates thank you mayor I have two updates related to community

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development activity the first one is related to the Amazon project so to

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prepare for the construction of that project demolition of the former Bank of

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America building is it expected to start within the next few weeks and demolition

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will take approximately four months so prepare prepare for that demolition and

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and construction activity.

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The community may notice signage construction fencing

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as well as a temporary 12-foot high sound wall

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along Valencia Avenue.

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And to describe it, it's essentially a fencing material

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with sound blankets as insulation at that 12-foot height.

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In addition to 50 South Kramer,

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this was the Lanar preliminary application

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that was submitted.

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Let ours move forward with a formal application which is recently submitted and currently under review and

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The application signs will soon be posted on the site within the next 60 days of that application being received. That's all my updates

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Thank you now we'll move on to public comment on agenda items

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This is your opportunity to make any comments relating to general session items

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comments related to non-agenda items will be heard at the designated public comment period for non-agenda items.

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Please submit a speaker card to the city clerk, raise your digital hand now or dial nine on a telephone to indicate you wish to speak.

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When it is your turn to speak, please begin by stating your name and city of residence and limit your comments to five minutes.

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I will first call on members of the public participating in person followed by remote participants.

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Our first register speaker is Mark Strong.

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Good evening.

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I'm Greg resident Mark Strong and speaking solely for myself regarding tonight's agenda topic.

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I'm renewing Brian's legal services contract.

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I thought carefully about what I heard in the June 16 Council meeting.

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Candidly, I find it remarkable that in the midst of everything going on,

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the Council thinks contract renewal is a good idea.

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I'm not an expert, but I can't observe this.

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First, our city treasureer, Janice E.B., identified a serious concern last year. She acted in the interest

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of taxpayers as did the research and showed courage in speaking up. She should be applauded, not dismissed.

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And a full year later, she certainly shouldn't be forced to speak and matters from the audience to

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get the counsel to pay attention to an issue involving the people's money. She's not an audience,

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just an audience member. She's the people's elected official in your equal. While roles differ,

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or no one is superior, and you all report to we the people.

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It's troubling that some seem to believe otherwise.

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Second, during the period when approximately $200,000

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in question will law firm buildings occur,

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the governing contract limited travel costs

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to out-of-pocket expenses.

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Out-of-pocket expenses as a standard industry term

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could find to include mileage, airfare, lodging,

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and so forth without markup.

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It expressly excludes professional time,

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build the service hours.

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If a firm intends to recoup those costs,

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it must be so stated in the contract. It was, but very narrowly, and not in reference to driving to to their city hall office.

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Third, it sounds like Richard Watson and Gershin's chairman sent a hostel letter to the city that redefines

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out apocalyptic expenses to include travel times or prayer. They charge for the driving time, but not mileage.

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That's a 180-degree reversal of the definition. Of course, attorney time is much more to RWG than mileage.

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After 58 years of city loyalty to our WG and its predecessors, this approach seems insulting.

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A professional response would have been to come to City Hall, discuss the matter and seek a compromise.

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And fourth, in City Hall bickering at the end of July 21st meeting, the mayor said that an independent reviewer believe there would be some mudding facts because the city let it go on,

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so long that we effectively share in the issue,

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hence it's not worth going to court.

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For the sake of argument, if we assume

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the mayor's conclusion is valid,

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the logic for renewing the contract still fails.

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Imagine a contractor who's done work

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on your home for years.

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Looking back, you see he's billed for quite a lot of it,

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wasn't aligned with contract terms.

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When you raise the point, he gets happy and says,

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it displays a C even court attitude.

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Now, would you go back to that contractor to do more work?

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Of course not, you'll find a new one.

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The point is this, why are you trying to renew a contract under these circumstances?

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After 58 years, isn't it entirely reasonable, in fact responsible, to go out to bid and evaluate

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other options?

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The comments of a June 16 speaker ring in my ears.

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He described a relationship between the council and our WG that is collusive in nature.

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Our WG knows what the council wants and enables it.

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In my little slice of the world with prayer for all, I see the same pattern.

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As I explained in last week's special meeting, when a majority of you really want something,

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notions of fear and transparent adjudicent for a new standard.

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We are illegal.

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Effective council stands tall for principles of fairness and transparency.

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They protect the city.

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They help you steer clear of even the appearance of brown act violations.

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They avoid public record disclosure issues by not giving conflicted staff

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Soul authority and deciding what records must be produced

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And it's consular controversy. They read the record for themselves and don't wait for the next shooter drop

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They dress serious each are issues before they escalate

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On the other hand, in effect of legal counsel. Let's leaders do what they want plays the deny and delay game and increases our spent litigating

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I

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the law firm. And I request that you think independently and vote for a fresh legal perspective

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in Brea. It's needed. Thank you.

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That concludes all of our pre-registered speakers in person.

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We do not have anybody out there. Okay. I'd like to call Mrs. Carvala to respond to that speaker

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and also I'm closing public comment.

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A mere and members of the council. I just want to thank you

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for the opportunity to address this matter for you,

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a special legal counsel to the city.

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I was asked to advise the city regarding whether it could

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recover alleged overpayments of legal fees paid

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to its contract city attorney, law firm,

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Richard Watson, and Gershon.

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I was asked to specifically address the amounts

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that were charged for attorney travel time

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to and from city hall.

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I just want to give a little bit of background here.

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As I understand it, these matters became a topic

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of conversation after the city's elected city treasure

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or sent to memorandum to the city council.

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Council, and made allegations at a city council meeting during public comments on February 17th of this year. The allegations made by the city treasure are serious in nature. She has put in writing that RWG has overbilled the city $195,639.50 for travel time that was specifically excluded in prior versions of the legal services agreement. She also encourages the city to seek recovery of the unauthorized travel times charges. She does not, however, put the

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the numerous legal service agreement amendments in context.

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Nordici addressed the 2018-19 amendments resulting in the reduction in billable rates, which

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was evident showing that they were intended to reduce overall the charges to offset our

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early travel charges.

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And the 2018 amendment was presented to the City Council for public review, and this amendment

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was presented after there was conversation here at the city about some of these issues.

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nothing was hidden from the public, the item was presented in an agenda report and approved by the City Council.

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Even members of the public and members of the council who had raised these issues did not protest at that time.

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I want to be clear, my goal here is not to pit the opinions of elected officials against one another.

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It is to assist you in understanding the obligations under the legal services agreement and encourage all of you as elected officials to adhere to and respect your respective roles.

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and order to ensure that there's good governance over the city and its resources.

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I have previously provided to the city treasurer of a general law city, what those obligations

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are communicated with her, offered to meet with her and to discuss these items.

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I have not received a phone call or any response to that attempt to reach her to understand

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and to better hear her perspective on these issues.

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I understand that all of you as elected officials have certain roles in fiduciary duties to

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the city and I know that you take them seriously.

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After reviewing the relevant circumstances,

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all of the correspondence and documents,

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I have concluded that the city is not likely to prevail

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in a breach of contract action seeking

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to recover payments that were made

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to purchase Watson and Gershon.

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And there's many reasons for this.

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I've outlined those reasons in a legal opinion

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to the council.

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I've also provided these to the city.

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But the most important part is that a contract

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should be viewed to carry out the intent of the party.

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It's in the reasonable intentions.

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A court might look at not only the language that was in the contract but they may also look at admissible extrinsic evidence giving meaning to the language.

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There have been negotiations, there have been communications, there has been prior payment of invoices, there has never been an objection from the city itself.

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And Richard Watson and Gershon responded, both parties proceeded to perform under the terms of the agreement after having a meeting.

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So for those reasons, which I won't go into more detail, it was my conclusion that the

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city would not prevail in such an action.

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I even took a look at whether a third-party taxpayer lawsuit might prevail, and that definitively

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could not occur.

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Someone might file it if they were to choose to file such an action.

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I believe it would be subject to dismissal by the courts.

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There is a direct case on point involving the Daily Journal, which is a legal publication.

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In that case, a competitor of that paper attempted to bring a taxpayer lawsuit and attempted

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to make the county of Los Angeles seek recovery.

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And the court absolutely said that it will not substitute the court's judgment for

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the judgment of the City Council members or in that case the supervisors for administering

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the contracts.

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So I don't believe such an action that you would prevail.

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It is my strong legal advice that you, later on in your agenda, have an agenda item before

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you to revise the contract if it's the council's desire to continue to contract with Richard's

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Watson and Gershon, that you'd be absolutely explicit in that contract. And I do have to

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say I've told some of you before that I think there were some missed opportunities by both parties

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to have addressed this travel issue. But I don't think we should look back. I think my legal advice

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to you is I don't think you will prevail if you were to seek a breach contract case against the law

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firm. I don't think a third party claim will prevail. And if you want to move forward,

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I strongly recommend that you adopt the agreement that I was asked to prepare, and that I

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place before you. It is explicit as to travel time, modernize as a number of provisions,

227
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and I think would resolve this issue once and for all.

228
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,820
Okay. Thank you very much.

229
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:26,840
I have a question for you.

230
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:27,540
Sonia.

231
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:28,960
Hold on, Steve.

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00:19:29,420 --> 00:19:33,560
Steve, our comments are reserved for later in the meeting, and Sonia will be here.

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here. Jason, do you have anything you'd like to add?

234
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:38,560
Not at this point.

235
00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:40,480
Mr. Boggo, do you have anything you'd like to add?

236
00:19:40,620 --> 00:19:40,680
No.

237
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,500
Okay. Thank you very much.

238
00:19:45,780 --> 00:19:48,660
Now we'll move on to the City Council consent calendar.

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00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,120
Do I have a motion to approve items 3-3-3-2-3?

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00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:52,900
A second.

241
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:04,260
Motion passes 5-0.

242
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,760
Now we'll move on to the City Successor Consent Calendar.

243
00:20:09,940 --> 00:20:12,720
Do I have a motion to approve items 4-A and 4-B?

244
00:20:25,620 --> 00:20:27,120
Motion passes 5-0.

245
00:20:29,860 --> 00:20:32,880
Now we'll move on to public hearing item number 5-A.

246
00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:37,100
OCTA enhanced mobility for seniors and individuals

247
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,460
with disabilities grant application.

248
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,340
Senior Management Analyst, Goodoy, will present.

249
00:20:43,860 --> 00:20:45,260
Well, good evening mayor and council.

250
00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:46,680
We'll thank you for the opportunity to present

251
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,460
Anthony Goodoy Senior Analyst for the Community Services Department.

252
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,360
My presentation will be loading momentarily.

253
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There we are.

254
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:58,960
So, for your considerations tonight is the enhanced mobility for seniors and individual

255
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disabilities grant or EMSD.

256
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,520
A little bit of background regarding this specific funding opportunity, it is consistent

257
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,760
with a similarly named Federal Opportunity under the Federal Transit Administration or FTA

258
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:17,860
Section 5310 with the purpose of reducing barriers for transportation for seniors and individual

259
00:21:17,860 --> 00:21:22,740
disabilities and supporting local agencies and nonprofits in the delivery of transportation

260
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:48,880
transportation services. However, the grant we're discussing tonight is administered by the Orange County Transportation Authority or OCTA, which makes it a local grant that basically reduces some of the barriers for federal requirements, allowing agencies to more easily receive funding. All projects must align with the OCTA's 2024 coordinated plan. Every four years, a coordinated plan is identified to provide goals and priorities for transportation issues in the county.

261
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,720
Regarding the application, the Smedal deadline is coming up next Friday, August 28th.

262
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,880
As part of the requirements of our application, in order to be eligible, we must hold this

263
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,880
public hearing and adopt a resolution as documentation.

264
00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:09,720
The resolution is twofold, one, it allows us to get your permission to apply for this funding

265
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,480
opportunity, and two, it specifically certifies that there are no non-profit entities that are

266
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,060
readily available to provide the transportation services that we offer.

267
00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:26,100
The total requests for this possible opportunity is $750,000 and there are four potential project

268
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:26,580
types.

269
00:22:27,140 --> 00:22:31,680
You see them listed there, but vehicles, small capital, operating, and mobility management.

270
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,380
I'm going to identify our request being vehicles, but I'll discuss that with these next few slides.

271
00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:42,880
Specifically regarding the Senior Transportation Program, the Shuttle, which is a complimentary

272
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,160
service for our seniors.

273
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,040
You can see in last fiscal year, we offered over 7,000 trips to our senior population.

274
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,500
These are arranged as pre-scheduled trips that can also be for shopping.

275
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,500
We had 532 trips last fiscal year for shopping opportunities.

276
00:22:58,020 --> 00:23:03,880
Program eligibility depends on one being age 16 over, a brayer resident, making that reservation

277
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one day at advance.

278
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,460
However, I am told that should same day opportunity be available, they are willing to accommodate,

279
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and it's available.

280
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,860
This program is available Monday through Friday only.

281
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Now regarding the shuttles, this need was identified by city staff because the shuttles

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we currently have in operation are part of a retired shuttle program through OCTA in

283
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:30,300
which they've reached the end of their useful life for the OCTA and we receive them at

284
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:35,500
no cost. That's a great opportunity for us to receive some vehicles that we need. However,

285
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just because we receive them at no cost, you'll notice they do require a good amount of initial

286
00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:44,800
inspection to ensure all systems are functioning properly. All safety mechanisms are in place

287
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:52,480
And if need be retrofitting for use in our program, they do represent a cost for ongoing maintenance repair being older vehicles

288
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That's part of why we identified them as a need and then of course there are questions regarding reliability and

289
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:04,380
Potential disruptions of service if these older vehicles need to go down for repair that represents interruptions and the transportation

290
00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:05,080
We're able to provide

291
00:24:07,530 --> 00:24:14,270
So now we get to our proposed part project. We are requesting two new shuttles one of them being an electric vehicle for zero emissions

292
00:24:14,270 --> 00:24:16,230
The other being a gas vehicle

293
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:22,630
This requests aligns with OCTA's 2024 coordinated plan in the fact that it provides sustainability

294
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:26,030
for this program and long-term operational capacity.

295
00:24:26,530 --> 00:24:32,230
We are required to match 10% of the cost of these vehicles, which we've proposed 10%

296
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:36,730
coming from the air quality improvement fund to 40 for the electric vehicle at zero emissions

297
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:40,990
and then the remaining match for the gas vehicle coming from our equipment and vehicle maintenance

298
00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:43,370
fund or vehicle replacement fund for 80.

299
00:24:43,370 --> 00:24:44,350
So

300
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,480
in closing tonight's recommendations by staff is to one we open and hold tonight's

301
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:51,080
public hearing.

302
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:56,560
We adopt the resolution certifying that there are no non-profit readily available entities

303
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,420
to provide this transportation service and you authorize our application for funding.

304
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,920
We also ask that you authorize the City Manager to execute any agreements or any documents

305
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,820
required regarding this funding opportunity.

306
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,140
And lastly, if awarded, you would amend the budget to receive any future funds, as well

307
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:17,240
as authorized our 10% match both from air quality improvement fees and equipment and vehicle maintenance.

308
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:25,160
Okay, before council questions I'll open the public hearing. This is your opportunity to make

309
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,980
any comments relating to the public hearing item. Please submit a speaker card to the city clerk.

310
00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:34,580
Raise your digital hand now or dial nine on the telephone to indicate you wish to speak.

311
00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:39,100
When it is your turn to speak please begin by stating your name and city of residence

312
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:41,240
and limit your comments to five minutes.

313
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,760
I will call on members of the public participating in person first.

314
00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:48,320
Do we have any members of the public wishing to speak?

315
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:52,500
I do not have any pre-registered speakers.

316
00:25:52,940 --> 00:25:53,960
Do we have anyone on Zoom?

317
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,920
Okay, I'll close the public hearing and open it to council questions.

318
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,160
If I could start.

319
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,600
Having visited the Senior Center numerous times,

320
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,360
discussing the vehicle situation there.

321
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,440
And with those vehicles going down,

322
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:14,760
has had a real impact at times we are really struggled just to be able to transport our seniors

323
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:21,120
to and from and not include shopping and everything else because those vehicles that are free,

324
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:27,900
they're free for a reason because their life is basically over and we're just stretching it out

325
00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:34,360
a wee bit. So I think taking advantage of these grants and getting these vehicles is going to do a

326
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:40,520
service or a seniors that's long overdue and I think that we'll get much more use out of this

327
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:46,400
for our seniors and we're getting now with our hand made downs. I'm going to move approval.

328
00:26:49,890 --> 00:26:58,110
10% local match. What is that equate to in dollars? That equates to for the electric vehicle being

329
00:26:58,110 --> 00:27:04,450
the more expensive. That's approximately 42,500 out of air quality funds and then the gas vehicle

330
00:27:04,450 --> 00:27:08,410
being 150,000 that would be 15,000 out of our vehicle replacement and maintenance.

331
00:27:08,990 --> 00:27:10,950
Would you explain the air quality funds?

332
00:27:11,330 --> 00:27:13,230
So yes, those funds are specifically set aside.

333
00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:14,970
They're from vehicle registrations.

334
00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:18,670
The portion of that is set aside to specifically address vehicle emissions.

335
00:27:19,290 --> 00:27:23,610
So purchasing an electric vehicle, which has zero emissions, is right in alignment with the

336
00:27:23,610 --> 00:27:25,230
goals of that AQMD project.

337
00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:27,170
57,000.

338
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:28,270
Correct.

339
00:27:28,930 --> 00:27:35,190
Okay, I will second Marty's motion because I know that with these vehicles that we currently

340
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:40,290
have, they have gone down for weeks at a time in the past and it's really made it difficult

341
00:27:40,290 --> 00:27:42,750
to get our seniors to the places that they need to go.

342
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:44,810
So I'm all in favor of this.

343
00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:51,150
If I may just to address the 57,000, as of right now that's our estimates of vehicle, should

344
00:27:51,150 --> 00:27:55,790
we find a more cost effective option, we may end up requiring less, but that is our ask

345
00:27:55,790 --> 00:27:57,670
from the funding source at the moment.

346
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:00,960
Okay,

347
00:28:09,270 --> 00:28:10,770
motion passes 5-0.

348
00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:17,790
All right, the next item of business is item 8-B, annual report related to police department.

349
00:28:18,690 --> 00:28:20,270
No, I missed one, sorry.

350
00:28:20,850 --> 00:28:28,210
The next item of the business is item 8-6-A, the introduction of ordinance number 1-2-7-7.

351
00:28:28,590 --> 00:28:32,790
An ordinance of the City of Brea, revising electric mobility device regulations.

352
00:28:32,790 --> 00:28:38,510
a mending the Brayow City Code and approving a sequit exemption. Lieutenant Winger will present.

353
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,180
Good evening, Madam Mayor, councilmembers, city staff and committee members. I'm Lieutenant

354
00:28:52,180 --> 00:28:56,400
Chris Winger. I'm here with tonight with a quick presentation to address the increase

355
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:02,700
to the e-bike ordinance. During the June 2nd, 2026 council meeting, any bike update was presented

356
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:08,220
to outline the education and enforcement actions taken and to provide collision data recorded between

357
00:29:08,220 --> 00:29:14,700
in July 25th, I'm sorry, July 2025 in June, 2026, regarding those e-bikes.

358
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:19,720
Despite public outreach and education, collaborations with the Olanda Unified School District and

359
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:25,640
safety classes, their brave police department has seen significant increase in violations of e-bike

360
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,920
ordinance. As a June 2nd City Council meeting,

361
00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:34,440
City Council directed staff to take action to increase the administrative fines for violations

362
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:35,860
to the e-bike ordinance.

363
00:29:36,660 --> 00:29:37,420
Based on that feedback,

364
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,000
staff proposed it to increase the current fine amounts

365
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,420
to serve as a more rigorous deterrent

366
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:44,440
against reckless e-bike operation.

367
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,460
The proposed administrative fine amounts would be as follows.

368
00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:52,740
The first offense would move to $250 up from $125.

369
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,600
The second offense within 12 months would move to $500

370
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,800
and increase from $250.

371
00:29:58,800 --> 00:29:59,060
dollars.

372
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,740
And a third of fans within the 12-month span would move to $1,000 up from $500.

373
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:09,420
Thank you, and I can answer any questions if you have any.

374
00:30:11,780 --> 00:30:16,720
I guess that's a comment slash question. I'm absolutely in favor of this, I'll make the motion.

375
00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:21,960
But while you're here, can we just take this as one more education opportunity?

376
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:29,660
Can you share with the public and all of us when e-bike, motorcycle, et cetera, right?

377
00:30:29,660 --> 00:30:35,400
It's a range, most of them I think are not street legal that we're seeing in use or many of them.

378
00:30:36,020 --> 00:30:37,740
How can they or do we impound them?

379
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:42,500
Those are what is the process as you come across vehicles that shouldn't be out on our streets.

380
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:47,820
Sure, I can give you some feedback on some specific numbers as far as impounds go.

381
00:30:48,820 --> 00:30:58,360
In this year to date, we have 10 impounds and those impounds are related to the e-motor cycles or modified e-bikes that take them out of the e-bicycle class.

382
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:09,420
We don't have, there's nothing in place that would necessarily allow us to impound an ebicycle, but we have 10 to your today on the impounds.

383
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:17,180
And that is, when you find them, they are impounded, or is there some sort of a grace period or grace opportunity?

384
00:31:17,180 --> 00:31:18,640
They're impounded on the spot, we take it.

385
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:19,420
Thank you.

386
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:31,980
Yes, when you pull over, I'm assuming kids are having most of these violations, that correct?

387
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:33,940
Yep, below 18.

388
00:31:36,180 --> 00:31:38,960
It ranges, yeah, I couldn't give you a definitive, but-

389
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:39,420
Out of the 10.

390
00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:42,380
I don't know out of the 10, I don't know how many were kids.

391
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,720
It's generally kids, generally?

392
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,800
Sure, it could be, potential, yeah.

393
00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:54,240
So when you pull over a kid and you give them a ticket, do you call the parents?

394
00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:55,040
Yes.

395
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:56,320
And do the parents come?

396
00:31:56,820 --> 00:31:59,180
Or do you issue the ticket and just notify the parents?

397
00:31:59,820 --> 00:32:00,700
No, the parents come.

398
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,680
We issue, like if it's any bicycle in this case, we issue or give that back to them.

399
00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:12,100
If there's anything that falls outside of class where there's any modifications, we make that known.

400
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:18,760
and then we, in essence, provide them with an advisement for them taking responsibility.

401
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:26,760
Generally, if it's a young person, that's below 18, and you're going to issue them a citation,

402
00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:32,160
you call the parents and the parents come, and they have an opportunity to pick up the bike.

403
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:33,320
Yes.

404
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:33,900
Great.

405
00:32:33,980 --> 00:32:40,560
The reason I'm asking these questions is because I've got to call very young man who's had numerous violations,

406
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,940
and then the bike was impounded.

407
00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:53,200
So not only does the parent have to pay $250, or hopefully makes a kid bet, but

408
00:32:53,920 --> 00:33:01,420
now you have to pay Brea towing for whatever the cost is at Brea towing, which is per day.

409
00:33:02,180 --> 00:33:06,100
So if it's on a Friday and they can't get there until Monday, those costs all add up.

410
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:10,040
So we're already charging the parents quite a lot.

411
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,620
because the parents are most likely fronting the money for this citations and these fines.

412
00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:21,660
Could you, we just make sure that we're cognizant of the fact that if we're increasing these fees,

413
00:33:22,340 --> 00:33:26,260
we give the parents an opportunity to take the bike at least and

414
00:33:27,580 --> 00:33:30,480
not impound the bikes if it's at all possible.

415
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,640
I mean, that's worth a broader discussion.

416
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:40,020
I think certainly the point is of all of these fees is to not have reckless operation.

417
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:44,060
of e-bikes and not have e- motorcycles, right?

418
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,840
The point is that people follow the laws as they exist, in which case you're not paying any of these fines,

419
00:33:48,980 --> 00:33:50,080
and nothing is being impounded.

420
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:57,340
And just like that real quick, I think the lieutenant was quite specific when he said the bikes that they're impounding,

421
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,480
are the motorcycles that somebody's riding out of classification, are an e-bike that's been modified.

422
00:34:02,980 --> 00:34:06,960
Those are the ones that they said are being impounded, not just when they issue a citation.

423
00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:15,540
Yeah, I was going to clarify was the bikes that are being impound, it's kind of hard to describe

424
00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:19,080
because it's bike and bicycle and all falls kind of is all clumped in.

425
00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:26,680
But the impound ones are related to an e-motor cycle which is a vehicle defined by the California

426
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:27,320
vehicle code.

427
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,800
If it's just a general class to e-bicycle, those are the opportunities.

428
00:34:33,220 --> 00:34:34,900
It's just like your wallet for example.

429
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:38,700
Well, we can't just confiscate your wallet because you committed a crime.

430
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:44,960
We can also take a knee bicycle if it's involved in a type of crime.

431
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:53,020
You know, maybe felony evasion or a hit and run, but we would be taking it as an evidence piece of item.

432
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,500
Lieutenant Wenger, I'm just asking if you could just keep it in mind.

433
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:56,780
Sure.

434
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:08,740
It's a passing on to your officers that if there's an opportunity and it's not going to be and doesn't have to be found in rather than money stay with the parents and then go to a towing company.

435
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,200
Nothing against pray towing, we just approve their contract, so that's fine.

436
00:35:14,940 --> 00:35:17,540
So I'll go ahead and second the motion, I'm okay with that.

437
00:35:18,580 --> 00:35:19,120
Go ahead.

438
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,100
Okay, all right, that's what

439
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:29,530
motion passes 5-0.

440
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:37,110
Okay, the next item of business is item 6B, annual report related to police department use of military equipment.

441
00:35:37,350 --> 00:35:42,830
As required by government code section 7072, Lieutenant Hadad will present this.

442
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,000
Good evening mayor, City Council members.

443
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:59,320
My name is Lieutenant Chris Hadad, and I'm here to present the Bray Police Department's annual report on the use of military equipment for calendar year 2025.

444
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:12,960
As required by Assembly Bill 41, as you are aware, AB 41 requires law enforcement agencies to provide an annual report to their governing body regarding the acquisition, use, and maintenance of military equipment.

445
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:24,080
The purpose of this report is to provide transparency and accountability regarding the equipment available to the Bray Police Department, how that equipment was used during the reporting period and the associated costs.

446
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:30,420
The Department's Military Equipment Use Policy, annual report and inventory are publicly

447
00:36:30,420 --> 00:36:34,340
available on the Bray Police Department's website under the transparency session.

448
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,620
During the 2025 reporting period, the Bray Police Department deployed its military equipment

449
00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:40,940
in the following situations.

450
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:49,780
The Department conducted approximately 1,500 UAS or drone flights and accumulated approximately

451
00:36:49,780 --> 00:36:51,700
340 hours of flight time.

452
00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:57,140
These missions provided aerial support in a variety of situations, including search and rescue,

453
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,080
missing person investigations, suspect searches, critical incidents,

454
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:07,740
SWAT operations, high risk traffic stops, event security, and other incidents where an

455
00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:11,040
aerial perspective provided an operational or safety benefit.

456
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:18,840
In 2025, the department purchased two DFR, drone is a first responder, UAS systems,

457
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,580
and DFR operations began in the summer of 2025.

458
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,540
The DFR program currently provides coverage to approximately 75% of the city of Braia.

459
00:37:29,660 --> 00:37:36,360
There were no complaints regarding the department's use of military equipment during the 2025 reporting period.

460
00:37:37,020 --> 00:37:44,040
The department's review also identified no policy violations related to the use of military equipment during the reporting period.

461
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,380
That concludes my report for the calendar year 2025.

462
00:37:47,380 --> 00:37:47,580
five.

463
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,700
Does council have any questions? Okay. Do I have a motion?

464
00:37:54,780 --> 00:37:55,100
Motion

465
00:38:10,850 --> 00:38:19,630
passes five zero. Okay. Thank you. The next item of business is item six C legal

466
00:38:19,630 --> 00:38:24,650
services agreement with Richard Watson and Grishon administrative services director

467
00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:26,070
Lowe presented this.

468
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,960
Good evening mayor and city council members. The item before you this

469
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,020
This evening is a legal services agreement with Richard Watson and Greshon or RWG.

470
00:38:38,590 --> 00:38:43,720
The current amended and restated agreement for professional services with RWG has been

471
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:47,260
in place since 2004 with subsequent amendments.

472
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,620
While staff continues to work through other details, the city desires to update the agreement

473
00:38:52,620 --> 00:38:53,600
with RWG.

474
00:38:54,910 --> 00:39:00,240
The new proposed 2026 legal services agreement formalizes the continued relationship between

475
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:01,480
RWG and the city.

476
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,260
which includes updated scope of work and compensation

477
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:12,540
effective October 1, 2026, with the agreements remaining in effect until terminated by either party.

478
00:39:13,180 --> 00:39:16,320
It is the city's intent to review the contract after one year.

479
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:24,700
Under the agreement, RWG will continue providing comprehensive legal services as directed by the city council through the city manager.

480
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,820
A few of the core services include attendance at the city council meetings, legal research and

481
00:39:30,820 --> 00:39:34,000
advice and other legal services as directed.

482
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,080
Travel time is not billed for attendance at City Council and planning commission meetings.

483
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,520
Hourly rates vary between general legal services and other services.

484
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:50,920
The $235 hourly rate for general services is comparable to the rates identified in a survey of seven cities.

485
00:39:51,740 --> 00:39:56,080
Staff is recommending City Council approve the legal services agreement with RWG.

486
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:02,140
That concludes my presentation, and we are here to answer any questions you may have.

487
00:40:04,180 --> 00:40:05,140
Anyone have questions?

488
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:05,600
Yes.

489
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,900
Monica, this is the legal service agreement.

490
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:11,260
What about the lease agreement?

491
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,340
What is that going to come before us?

492
00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:16,840
I believe that's currently a negotiation, but-

493
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,640
Yeah, the lease agreement isn't before the City Council for consideration this evening.

494
00:40:21,020 --> 00:40:24,920
It's anticipated that that will come out of future City Council meeting.

495
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:25,580
I

496
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,760
have a quite a few questions.

497
00:40:35,340 --> 00:40:35,480
Okay.

498
00:40:35,780 --> 00:40:40,500
Before you start, does anybody else have any quick questions that you want to come in?

499
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:41,560
I have one quick question.

500
00:40:41,980 --> 00:40:48,260
So there's a, Monica, you just mentioned it that the city intends to review the contract

501
00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:48,960
offer one year.

502
00:40:49,580 --> 00:40:54,120
Is that being go to RFP through an RFP process?

503
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,860
That's up to the city council's direction.

504
00:40:57,460 --> 00:40:57,580
Okay.

505
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:58,060
Thank you.

506
00:40:58,060 --> 00:41:03,380
I think that was our direction that we would like to see it go to RFP, but staff needed time to prepare that.

507
00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:06,540
So, okay, Steve, what do you have?

508
00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:19,860
So, Ms. Love, we already have an RFP, a matter of fact, in 2025, the city manager prepared an RFP to go out to contract for the legal services agreement.

509
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:20,380
Is that correct?

510
00:41:21,940 --> 00:41:22,500
That's correct.

511
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:24,720
Okay. So we really have an RFP.

512
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,880
One of my issues is is that I would like and I wanted

513
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:42,080
an RFP to be issued through compromise. I was agreeable to a one-year contract. I just

514
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:49,820
like you to clarify, even though you're saying that it's potentially a one-year contract,

515
00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:56,260
It still counts for three votes, the City Council, to go out to bid for an RFP one year from now, is that correct?

516
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,000
So really there's no one year limitation on this contract, is there?

517
00:42:08,910 --> 00:42:10,130
It is listed in the contract.

518
00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:17,410
Yes, so if I can just interject, so the contract would have an expiration.

519
00:42:17,810 --> 00:42:25,370
So the evaluation of the contract would have either a move forward in a renewal concept,

520
00:42:25,370 --> 00:42:31,950
or a stop and pause, go out for RFP, and see what the results of that are.

521
00:42:32,270 --> 00:42:34,470
Right, it's from October to October, correct?

522
00:42:35,150 --> 00:42:35,850
That is correct.

523
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:37,370
Okay, where did you have something?

524
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:38,530
I'm sorry.

525
00:42:39,150 --> 00:42:45,910
I would just say my only comment is the RFP that you're related to did not come at the direction of the City Council,

526
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:47,450
which is I think why I didn't move forward.

527
00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:52,650
I think, however, we're hearing something different now with respect to RFP.

528
00:42:52,650 --> 00:42:59,170
having participated in a municipal RFP and seeing the time that it took to go through

529
00:42:59,170 --> 00:43:04,970
that process. I would just ask the reason I asked if that's what Ms. Lowe was referring

530
00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:09,550
to is it's actually really important I think for the council to be involved as well as

531
00:43:09,550 --> 00:43:15,050
city staff and so that's something that is time-consuming for all involved and needs to be done properly.

532
00:43:15,470 --> 00:43:20,230
So I think we need to allow sufficient time for such a process if we want to do it correctly

533
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:21,190
and have a proper outcome.

534
00:43:21,970 --> 00:43:27,910
And if I could just add on to that and for Council Member Vargas' purpose and again

535
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:29,910
I believe you can check with Jason.

536
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:36,530
It was pointed out to you some time ago that the RFP, as Council Member Merrick stated,

537
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:41,410
was pulled back because it wasn't the Council that authorized that to go out.

538
00:43:42,030 --> 00:43:46,690
And I believe the Council has two employees that you're aware of, the City Manager and

539
00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:47,270
the City Attorney.

540
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:52,830
So the city manager had no authority to put that RFP out.

541
00:43:53,110 --> 00:43:55,490
So when you're talking about there's an RFP ready to go.

542
00:43:56,070 --> 00:43:57,050
Did you authorize it?

543
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:58,790
Or did any of us authorize that to go?

544
00:43:59,090 --> 00:43:59,870
The answer was no.

545
00:44:00,190 --> 00:44:01,990
So it had to be pulled back at that point.

546
00:44:02,330 --> 00:44:03,810
And it had to be discussed at that point.

547
00:44:04,130 --> 00:44:04,890
And who pulled it back?

548
00:44:05,610 --> 00:44:06,810
City manager pulled it back.

549
00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:07,790
City manager pulled it back.

550
00:44:07,930 --> 00:44:08,790
Did you talk to her about that?

551
00:44:08,830 --> 00:44:10,610
I talked to her and I talked to Jason about it.

552
00:44:10,770 --> 00:44:11,030
Okay.

553
00:44:11,210 --> 00:44:12,910
So you spearheaded that.

554
00:44:12,910 --> 00:44:19,290
I pointed out that she was putting out an RFP for an employee that worked directly for the council.

555
00:44:19,450 --> 00:44:19,550
Correct.

556
00:44:19,690 --> 00:44:23,450
She did not have the authorization in my opinion to put that out.

557
00:44:23,850 --> 00:44:24,030
Correct.

558
00:44:24,110 --> 00:44:26,410
Now, if you want to give her that authorization, I don't.

559
00:44:26,810 --> 00:44:27,810
No, no, that's fine.

560
00:44:28,010 --> 00:44:34,090
And thank you for clarifying in your own mind, because I know that there's only two people that we hire and fire.

561
00:44:34,430 --> 00:44:36,230
As City Manager has all of their authority.

562
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:41,030
Then why would you bring up an RFP that you know was not authorized to go out?

563
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:48,630
I just want clarity, and thank you for clarifying that you were the one that spearheaded the downfall of that RFP.

564
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:51,170
I don't know if I spearheaded or not, I just brought it to their attention.

565
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:53,150
That means I'm going to continue on, if I may.

566
00:44:53,150 --> 00:44:59,970
Marka, the Sonia, are...

567
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:12,240
Local expert here that's helping us with this. She mentioned in her opening that it was $196,000, $195,000

568
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:14,960
that was identified by the city treasure.

569
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:19,290
Approximately it's fine with that. That's correct.

570
00:45:19,610 --> 00:45:28,910
Okay, and then did you subsequently validate those numbers? Yes. And what number did you come up with?

571
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:33,630
I came up with about $196,77.

572
00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:35,110
Yes, so I'm sorry.

573
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:37,310
The treasure and I came up with $195.

574
00:45:37,310 --> 00:45:39,390
You validated numbers and found an error

575
00:45:39,390 --> 00:45:42,410
and it was actually a little bit more, $196,000.

576
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:43,350
Is that correct?

577
00:45:44,330 --> 00:45:45,430
Generally, thank you.

578
00:45:46,030 --> 00:45:46,910
Well, I just have one question.

579
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:49,150
When you say validate, you mean add it up numbers

580
00:45:49,150 --> 00:45:52,670
that were billed for travel time or validated.

581
00:45:53,130 --> 00:45:56,190
Validate is just sort of has like a moral term to me.

582
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:57,370
You're just talking about counting.

583
00:45:57,370 --> 00:46:04,650
You can put whatever word you'd like. I don't mind the county city staff reviewed the information that councilman

584
00:46:04,650 --> 00:46:10,190
Religious provided and in that process that was the number that

585
00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:11,570
Services

586
00:46:11,570 --> 00:46:23,070
Who called exactly a county for travel time built not validating like right or wrong right validating has like a moral

587
00:46:23,070 --> 00:46:29,810
Well, stands to me, you're just saying you added up the numbers, and this was the allocation to travel time counted for these many dollars.

588
00:46:29,810 --> 00:46:30,710
Is that a correct statement?

589
00:46:30,790 --> 00:46:32,390
Colleagues, let me just clarify.

590
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:36,030
I'm going to ask a series of questions, okay, and I have the right.

591
00:46:36,170 --> 00:46:48,230
There's a pseudo-digital process, and I've been shut down on numerous times to, you've got to wait till the council meeting on the 18th to bring this stuff up because it's not on the agenda.

592
00:46:48,770 --> 00:46:50,390
We just did it at the finance committee meeting.

593
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:52,450
So, I'd like to have the opportunity.

594
00:46:52,890 --> 00:47:01,310
Any words that I use, I'm open to correction, just chime out a word but please allow me

595
00:47:01,310 --> 00:47:06,110
to have the process and don't keep on interrupting me because that's part of the whole process

596
00:47:06,110 --> 00:47:12,510
of why our citizens are frustrated with us as council is that we trip over ourselves to make

597
00:47:12,510 --> 00:47:17,150
sure that you're heard on the right words and I'm just trying to get out the facts here and

598
00:47:17,150 --> 00:47:22,730
And I will leave it to you to correct me, but please be succinct when you do it.

599
00:47:23,070 --> 00:47:23,410
I don't mind.

600
00:47:23,570 --> 00:47:24,690
So it's just one point of order, Siva.

601
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:24,910
Sure.

602
00:47:24,910 --> 00:47:25,830
I'm open to that.

603
00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:27,730
Out of everybody, you have to know that.

604
00:47:27,850 --> 00:47:34,330
But you have to also look in the mirror and recognize that you sometimes do use loaded words.

605
00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:41,110
So I would ask you to be mindful of the verbiage that you're using, that it's factual, not judgmental.

606
00:47:41,590 --> 00:47:44,110
Just one minute, I'll scratch out a couple of these words, not just kidding.

607
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:47,810
But I will keep that in mind, all right.

608
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:57,890
So for the sake of argument, since there's 195 and 196, I've used in conversation the

609
00:47:57,890 --> 00:47:59,250
term $200,000.

610
00:47:59,390 --> 00:47:59,690
Is that okay?

611
00:47:59,950 --> 00:48:02,130
If I used to say $200,000, take away that argument.

612
00:48:02,690 --> 00:48:03,050
That's fine.

613
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:03,630
Approximately two.

614
00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:04,230
We have a degree.

615
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:04,970
But thank you.

616
00:48:05,390 --> 00:48:07,510
This is just to get rid of numbers.

617
00:48:08,350 --> 00:48:08,570
All right.

618
00:48:08,650 --> 00:48:09,650
So the bottom line is that.

619
00:48:09,650 --> 00:48:20,310
But so I actually brought in an intern, Claudia Dukumski, who was a USC police side intern

620
00:48:20,310 --> 00:48:24,410
and legal lawyer, she's going to be a lawyer.

621
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:30,950
I brought her in, she was sworn in as the Assistant City Treasurer by Dinesi B, because

622
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,490
billing records are confidential.

623
00:48:34,970 --> 00:48:42,790
So she had to have some justification to look at them and she went through and we went back to

624
00:48:43,970 --> 00:48:53,190
2016. The statute of limitations is four years. So I went back from 2019 when I first brought

625
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:58,810
this up and said okay well let's go back as far as we can. Our electronic records only go back to

626
00:48:58,810 --> 00:49:00,830
May approximately of 2016.

627
00:49:01,290 --> 00:49:02,670
Is that generally correct, Monica?

628
00:49:03,310 --> 00:49:03,610
Yes.

629
00:49:04,010 --> 00:49:07,490
So, the billing issue could be another year,

630
00:49:07,530 --> 00:49:08,870
which would be the Statue of Limitations,

631
00:49:09,210 --> 00:49:12,750
if we determine that 2019 was the start date.

632
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:14,510
Sure.

633
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:16,690
If we could, thank you, I appreciate that.

634
00:49:16,990 --> 00:49:17,010
Okay.

635
00:49:17,890 --> 00:49:23,830
So anyway, then the premises lease was also brought up

636
00:49:23,830 --> 00:49:37,630
And that was in a report that the City Treasurer mentioned at the meeting that was what you first spoke about this on June 30th of 2025.

637
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:50,120
It was also in my memo that I brought it up and documented all of these issues that the lease was also out of whack.

638
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:56,220
As a matter of fact, it was $1.34 per square foot when the go on rate for

639
00:49:56,220 --> 00:50:02,260
class A space as we've seen in our updated lease is nearly 450.

640
00:50:03,540 --> 00:50:13,580
So since 2004, the law firm is paid under the full cost recovery of lease agreement.

641
00:50:13,580 --> 00:50:24,860
and compliance with their contract that was restated and amended each year since at least 2004, but

642
00:50:24,860 --> 00:50:30,120
it actually goes back to 1980, is when the start of this contract goes.

643
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,500
So let's just kind of context, is that the statute of limitations is important.

644
00:50:37,420 --> 00:50:44,100
And tolling is important, tolling which means stopping the clock on this, once this vote is taken.

645
00:50:45,340 --> 00:50:48,020
that we have that agreement, and I'm going to ask for that later on.

646
00:50:49,140 --> 00:50:56,680
But anyway, so I would like to clarify, and Monica, if you could stay up there just a minute longer, I'd like to address something with Ms. Carvello, please.

647
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:15,820
Ms. Carvello, you gave us a memorandum that was just placed at our 615 meeting and I know the read about half of it, but all the good parts are in front, so thank you.

648
00:51:16,820 --> 00:51:21,160
Anyway, this is not Mark Confidential, is this a confidential document?

649
00:51:21,820 --> 00:51:23,600
In his current format it is.

650
00:51:23,860 --> 00:51:26,680
It is a confidential attorney client privilege document.

651
00:51:27,340 --> 00:51:33,880
If the City Council were to desire to release it, my advice to you would be that you take a vote to wave the attorney client privilege.

652
00:51:34,500 --> 00:51:39,720
I'd be happy to answer any questions that you'd like me to answer this evening as to any of the issues.

653
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:45,680
And while this was presented to you tonight, there is much of this memorandum was presented to the council.

654
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,620
earlier at the very first meeting that I met with you to discuss this item.

655
00:51:50,300 --> 00:51:55,980
We exited, before we exited the closed session, it was stated clearly that this is a confidential document.

656
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,480
It was stated clearly by Jason, correct?

657
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:07,200
So I'm asking the lawyer, who just presented it, it's not more confidential.

658
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,680
I'm just asking you, are you suggesting that this is a confidential document?

659
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:11,660
It's an attorney client privilege.

660
00:52:11,780 --> 00:52:12,480
Thank you very much.

661
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:13,580
I have communication to the city.

662
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,520
And can I ask you questions about this document now?

663
00:52:17,340 --> 00:52:20,300
If the chair, so-

664
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:23,160
Well, if you're up there giving expert testimony.

665
00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:31,700
I would ask if that does a way with our attorney client privilege.

666
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:36,260
So it depends on the nature of the questions that they're factual and those factual questions.

667
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,440
Those facts are contained in public documents.

668
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:39,320
I can answer them.

669
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:39,760
Okay.

670
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:44,300
If he begins to ask me about legal opinions that exceed what my statement evolved just in terms

671
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:48,780
my conclusion, if we get deeper, I would look to the council to basically get your approval

672
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,560
to waive that privilege, if you'd like an answer.

673
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,760
My concern would be, if he's going to be asking questions based on what's in the document,

674
00:52:57,260 --> 00:52:59,120
he's going to be revealing what's in the document.

675
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,140
It's a legal opinion to repair it.

676
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,520
The council, let me ask you that, let me switch gears, right?

677
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,460
Council hired you to look at the contract, correct?

678
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:13,400
All right.

679
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:25,120
Yes, I was engaged to take a look at the legal services agreement and to opine on whether the city might prevail in an action to recover a alleged overpayment.

680
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,580
And that was approximately a month ago.

681
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:29,880
So that was longer, no.

682
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,920
The first time we asked you to do something was two months ago.

683
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:39,420
So I'm asking the second time, this is the second time we've asked you to come before the council on help us with this.

684
00:53:39,420 --> 00:53:43,460
I was invited to a closed session meeting, attended that, and invited to a workshop meeting,

685
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:47,620
which I attended virtually, and this would be my third appearance before the City Council.

686
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:48,880
Third appearance, okay.

687
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:52,820
So, and how many closed sessions were you in?

688
00:53:53,660 --> 00:53:53,940
One.

689
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:54,480
One.

690
00:53:55,180 --> 00:53:55,380
All right.

691
00:53:57,260 --> 00:54:02,560
One of the issues that I'm having is that during this whole time, we've had numerous meetings.

692
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:12,360
meetings. We had two meetings in February regarding this contract issue, the lease, we talked

693
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,560
about all kinds of things, and we've made some great progress on these issues, right?

694
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:25,800
And then you've been in a meeting where when you first were brought in, the vote that was

695
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:32,340
taken was specific to educate me on travel time because my council colleagues thought

696
00:54:32,340 --> 00:54:38,780
I thought that I was just off my game and that travel time was completely legitimate.

697
00:54:39,420 --> 00:54:45,380
And you came in and then you discussed it with us and pretty much said that you don't charge for

698
00:54:45,380 --> 00:54:48,440
travel time, and that most lawyers don't charge for travel time.

699
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,440
I don't want to quote you, but I believe you said it would be unethical.

700
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,680
Okay, so let me clarify that, I don't think that's legal advice, that's factual.

701
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:01,260
What I said was, I felt that there was a missed opportunity when your new city attorney

702
00:55:01,260 --> 00:55:13,920
May became city attorney, what I said is that I thought there was just a missed opportunity to address what had been a historical situation where you had a city attorney here for many years, where you had them right here at city hall and where they lived nearby.

703
00:55:14,660 --> 00:55:17,720
What I said was, every client's going to be different.

704
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:28,880
And I actually gave the city council, public, it's all public information, five different examples from five different contracts from five different law firms, including Richard's Watson and

705
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:34,380
or Sean because they negotiate different arrangements with their clients and said, these are all different.

706
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,320
Every single one of these examples are different.

707
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:43,100
Just choose one and make sure that you explicitly put it in your agreement, which is what you're doing tonight, which is in this agreement tonight.

708
00:55:43,380 --> 00:55:43,580
Sure.

709
00:55:44,060 --> 00:55:53,780
Well, I think where the confusion came in is when Mr. Markman was our city attorney, like you said, he lived locally, he worked out of the office here.

710
00:55:53,780 --> 00:56:03,580
He had an agreement with a city manager ages ago that he would not bill for any travel time and he was available in the building.

711
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:11,900
When he decided to semi-retire, he appointed Terrence Boga to be his replacement. Terrence is based out of L.A.

712
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:20,720
His contract with Richards Watson and Gershon allows him to bill for travel time so he automatically billed for travel time.

713
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:27,220
and when it came to our attention, it was discussed with our city manager, this is just to kind of simplify things.

714
00:56:27,660 --> 00:56:33,900
It was discussed with the city manager and that's when the new agreement was reached that we all voted on and it was approved 5.0.

715
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:39,680
Correct. And that is what primarily leads to my conclusion that you wouldn't be successful if you tried to challenge it.

716
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:43,780
It's because the issue was never hidden from the public. It was raised at a public meeting.

717
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:51,400
You're appointed city manager under humanist code who was then a former manager, but the manager who's in charge of

718
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:58,060
administering contracts as written out in your municipal code had conversations with the law firm and they came up with a

719
00:56:58,060 --> 00:57:06,000
Resolution and a solution and they didn't do that in a vacuum. They actually documented an agreement brought it forward to the city council

720
00:57:06,860 --> 00:57:11,100
From what I could tell it involved a reduced billable hour rate

721
00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:20,180
I can presume from that that was to reflect the travel time and it was presented to the City Council and it was approved and there was no public opposition to it.

722
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:30,980
That is very telling when you look at a potential claim for breach of contract because the courts will look at the plain language, which is one thing, but your plain language goes back and you have all these different amendments.

723
00:57:31,420 --> 00:57:40,820
They're going to look at what was the understanding of the parties and I believe that if they were to speak to your former city manager, they would say that an understanding had been reached.

724
00:57:40,820 --> 00:57:44,860
that the City Council approves an agreement modifying, you know, affirming that understanding.

725
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:53,980
So, Mr. Seminoff has already addressed this issue that the City Attorney does not work for the City Manager.

726
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,900
He clearly works for the City Council.

727
00:57:56,540 --> 00:58:03,400
So, any agreement that the City Attorney made with the City Manager has nothing to do with the Council?

728
00:58:03,740 --> 00:58:05,500
The City Attorney came to us.

729
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:07,620
Let's talk about that.

730
00:58:07,860 --> 00:58:12,240
So it came to us because in 2018,

731
00:58:14,740 --> 00:58:16,020
Amendment 7 was approved.

732
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,120
And essentially that has to do with a rate increase.

733
00:58:21,230 --> 00:58:23,830
I can pull it for you, but just take my word for it.

734
00:58:23,930 --> 00:58:30,250
It was a rate increase from 185 to 190 for the standard 60 hours,

735
00:58:30,250 --> 00:58:33,090
and then 230 to 235, OK?

736
00:58:33,090 --> 00:58:39,190
And then just six months later, this amendment eight came in.

737
00:58:39,690 --> 00:58:44,210
And previously, since 2004, there's only been seven amendments.

738
00:58:44,730 --> 00:58:49,310
So about every four years, there's an added and they adjust their rates.

739
00:58:49,530 --> 00:58:50,550
That's pretty much how it goes.

740
00:58:50,890 --> 00:58:52,410
All of these amendments have to do with the rates.

741
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:57,930
But somewhere, in that six month period, something changed, okay?

742
00:58:57,930 --> 00:59:08,290
And then Christine Merrick had to sign in January of, I'm sorry, May of 2019, this second amendment, just six months later.

743
00:59:08,650 --> 00:59:09,370
That we all approved.

744
00:59:09,690 --> 00:59:11,510
And I approved it also, okay.

745
00:59:12,670 --> 00:59:21,550
So in 2019, in January, I brought it to the attention of the city manager, that there was this travel time issue, right?

746
00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:37,610
And I was told by the City Manager at my next meeting with him or a month later or whatever we brought it back up again that the issue I recall asking him what happened with that issue and he said he took care of it.

747
00:59:38,070 --> 00:59:38,210
All right.

748
00:59:39,850 --> 00:59:50,210
So Mr. Boga, you recall having a conversation with Bill Gerardo about travel time and how you're going to resolve travel time that you are going to call him

749
00:59:50,210 --> 00:59:51,950
while you're on the car.

750
00:59:53,250 --> 00:59:54,350
Do you recall that?

751
00:59:54,570 --> 00:59:59,430
Councilmember Vargas, the conversation I remember with former city manager, Guyardo.

752
01:00:00,110 --> 01:00:30,090
Was essentially culminated in an amendment number 8 to the agreement. The conversation was about the fact that under the contract, the lower rate for retainer services covered attendance, a council meetings, attendance, a planning commission meetings, and attendance at staff meetings. The way the contract was written when I took over from Mr. Markman at the beginning of 2019, my and Mr. Guardo had me coming to the weekly staff meetings at that time. That was being built at the higher rate. In order to, and I actually, you know, propose this to Bill at the time,

753
01:00:30,090 --> 01:00:34,990
to because we all knew that I was coming from Los Angeles for those weekly meetings.

754
01:00:35,290 --> 01:00:46,550
We proposed an account to alternate me approved, they changed into the contract to lower the rate, so that to add the travel attendance at the staff meetings at the lower rate, that's why that was done within six months of the prior amendment.

755
01:00:47,130 --> 01:00:53,810
Okay. Thank you for that clarification, so you do recall having a conversation with our former city manager about travel time.

756
01:00:54,730 --> 01:00:56,210
I recall what I just described.

757
01:00:56,210 --> 01:01:04,570
All right, because that is one of our executive meetings, you said you didn't have any recollection of that, so that's that is my clarification for that.

758
01:01:05,330 --> 01:01:18,750
Sonya, one of your statements just says one argument is travel time can be billed under the first 60 hours, and that rates for these first 60 hours were specifically reduced the account for travel time.

759
01:01:19,410 --> 01:01:25,450
You say that in your and your question you against reading from that one, because the council has not waved these very claims.

760
01:01:25,450 --> 01:01:28,130
I would like to ask you a question, so I'd be happy to do that, it's okay.

761
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:39,870
All right, so my point is, is that in Amendment 8, they had the opportunity to specifically address travel time, right?

762
01:01:40,490 --> 01:01:43,670
And in Amendment 8, they don't address travel time.

763
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:52,790
All they do is state that they're going to do 60 hours and that the first 60 hours are going to be built at 190, right?

764
01:01:54,070 --> 01:01:57,490
But the word's travel time is not in a mandate, is it?

765
01:01:57,970 --> 01:01:59,370
You looked at a mandate, correct?

766
01:01:59,430 --> 01:02:01,010
It is not an amendment number eight.

767
01:02:01,110 --> 01:02:04,750
I think I've clearly said that I feel like it was very much a missed opportunity.

768
01:02:05,390 --> 01:02:10,990
But there was the conversations and everything that I reviewed, the documents, discussions,

769
01:02:10,990 --> 01:02:15,850
some of your prior meetings, and everything I reviewed, if this matter were to go before our court

770
01:02:15,850 --> 01:02:19,570
and if the court were to allow what we call admissible, extrinsic evidence,

771
01:02:19,570 --> 01:02:24,450
that's the standard. If the court were to do that it would be clear to me that the people who

772
01:02:24,450 --> 01:02:29,090
would be called to testify would say that there was a meeting of the mines as to how this travel

773
01:02:29,090 --> 01:02:33,150
time was going to be addressed. Remember there are other provisions in the contract and I think people

774
01:02:33,150 --> 01:02:38,170
keep overlooking this as well as the city treasure that did not see it. There are other provisions in

775
01:02:38,170 --> 01:02:43,230
the contract that do allow for travel time and the provisions that some people are looking to to say

776
01:02:43,230 --> 01:02:49,410
that you can't build travel time go to the issue of travel reimbursement. But that amendment that

777
01:02:49,410 --> 01:02:53,950
you're referring to, when it refers to 60 hours, it contains the words work performed.

778
01:02:55,230 --> 01:03:00,490
And when you look at some of the cases that review some of these issues, work performed

779
01:03:00,490 --> 01:03:08,790
is very key to this analysis. Because while you were looking at this as travel time, I'm

780
01:03:08,790 --> 01:03:12,550
not sure that any of us would know whether there was work performed while the individuals

781
01:03:12,550 --> 01:03:17,990
who were charging you travel time were traveling. I mean, it is the year 2026. I know I'm an

782
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:20,930
experienced municipal lawyer, I've been doing this for over 35 years.

783
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:25,270
There's not a time when I'm in my car that I'm not performing work, unfortunately.

784
01:03:25,790 --> 01:03:27,670
It's usually on my cell phone with the speaker on.

785
01:03:28,250 --> 01:03:33,510
And so I think that was another piece of extrinsic evidence for me that was telling here.

786
01:03:34,110 --> 01:03:41,230
And so one can allege that, but I don't think there's any facts on either side that you could say that work wasn't performed while this travel was occurring.

787
01:03:41,790 --> 01:03:44,250
And I think that is really key to the analysis that I did.

788
01:03:44,250 --> 01:03:52,850
And the three meetings that you were one was zoom I recall that yes, so but you didn't charge us travel time to come from wherever you live

789
01:03:52,850 --> 01:03:56,130
I don't, but I do have to admit I live less than five minutes away

790
01:03:57,770 --> 01:03:59,010
Okay, thank you for that

791
01:03:59,650 --> 01:04:01,990
So anyway, so so the point is is that

792
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:11,330
It also in your letter and I won't read it, but essentially you say that this all occurred in 2019 when the new

793
01:04:11,330 --> 01:04:17,970
lawyer took over for the old lawyer, right, Jim Markman, and at this occurred in 2019.

794
01:04:18,490 --> 01:04:25,870
However, the billing for travel time from Terrence Bogey started in January 2017, and

795
01:04:25,870 --> 01:04:30,650
then it started for, who's our lawyer for planning commission?

796
01:04:31,330 --> 01:04:32,070
Flower, Steve Flower?

797
01:04:32,740 --> 01:04:35,730
Steve Flower in May of 2016.

798
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:39,230
So, one lawyer was already charging.

799
01:04:39,230 --> 01:04:46,190
and parents started charging for two years and, again, you suggest that it's, it all started in 2019.

800
01:04:46,670 --> 01:04:53,190
It seems to have, I guess, I think that the reason I say that and I really think that this is what the analysis proves out is that

801
01:04:53,190 --> 01:04:58,230
this understanding that your city attorney would not travel or charge for travel time.

802
01:04:58,510 --> 01:05:03,410
As really I think that's what was going on here, is that your city attorney would not charge for travel time.

803
01:05:03,410 --> 01:05:06,970
was because of the historic arrangement that you had with your city attorney.

804
01:05:07,350 --> 01:05:12,530
That your city attorney like I was a Fullerton resident, your city attorney was close to town.

805
01:05:12,670 --> 01:05:13,750
Your office was here.

806
01:05:14,370 --> 01:05:16,050
I do think that that would prove that out.

807
01:05:16,210 --> 01:05:22,670
I mean, since 2016, before you even raised the issue, you had an attorney from this law firm who was traveling from Los Angeles.

808
01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:27,970
It shows a pattern in practice that your understanding of this agreement was that Mr.

809
01:05:28,030 --> 01:05:30,050
Markman was not going to charge for travel time.

810
01:05:30,570 --> 01:05:34,250
because close by and you had an agreement that he would be here at City Hall.

811
01:05:34,790 --> 01:05:38,430
But other attorneys from this firm were charging for trial time historically.

812
01:05:38,930 --> 01:05:43,730
And I think the issue that came up when Mr. Boga was appointed is that you went back to revisit

813
01:05:43,730 --> 01:05:44,170
the issue.

814
01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:47,910
So I mean, I think that if you really take the time to look through all it all, it proves

815
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:48,770
out that argument.

816
01:05:49,170 --> 01:05:54,170
Again, I would say this very clearly because I don't want anyone to get the impression that

817
01:05:54,170 --> 01:05:55,570
I somehow defending these actions.

818
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:57,370
I think it was a missed opportunity.

819
01:05:57,370 --> 01:06:01,890
I think it should have been addressed when there was the transition, but unfortunately it wasn't.

820
01:06:02,130 --> 01:06:05,050
That doesn't mean that anyone did anything fraudulent.

821
01:06:05,350 --> 01:06:08,310
It doesn't mean that anyone sought to take advantage of the city.

822
01:06:08,830 --> 01:06:15,530
It was a historic relationship that changed, and you missed the opportunity to address it when the relationship changed in 2018.

823
01:06:15,710 --> 01:06:18,250
I'm going to ask for those of us that have this document.

824
01:06:18,750 --> 01:06:25,830
If we can have Jason pick it up because I'm afraid somebody's going to keep referring to it, because I see him going through the pages and

825
01:06:25,830 --> 01:06:26,590
And then asking questions.

826
01:06:26,830 --> 01:06:29,150
I have plenty of other documents.

827
01:06:29,310 --> 01:06:31,530
I don't need this, but I will have this.

828
01:06:31,870 --> 01:06:33,010
Jason, you cannot have this back.

829
01:06:33,290 --> 01:06:36,630
I'm going to put it right under here to put a lay his fears.

830
01:06:37,190 --> 01:06:38,150
I'm going to put it right under there.

831
01:06:39,390 --> 01:06:40,970
So let me just continue on.

832
01:06:43,690 --> 01:06:47,230
So first of all, I want to thank you for the work

833
01:06:47,230 --> 01:06:47,890
that you have done.

834
01:06:49,070 --> 01:06:50,750
You've shed some great light on this.

835
01:06:51,630 --> 01:06:53,550
I would like to get your opinion on something.

836
01:06:53,550 --> 01:07:05,090
If we've had all of these meetings, and all we're doing is talking about our lease agreement and travel time because that's been the bulk of these meetings that we've had, is that correct?

837
01:07:08,580 --> 01:07:20,940
Well, it's come up, but there's been other issues that have that relate to this travel time in this $200,000 dispute, thank you.

838
01:07:20,940 --> 01:07:23,520
That's a good choice of words, that's a good choice of words.

839
01:07:26,340 --> 01:07:29,400
So those were all in executive session.

840
01:07:32,140 --> 01:07:35,220
I don't know if the workshop meeting was a public meeting, as I recall.

841
01:07:35,340 --> 01:07:37,140
Okay, one was not, but two were executive session.

842
01:07:37,140 --> 01:07:39,060
I had one meeting with the council in close session.

843
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:39,660
Okay.

844
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:46,500
All right, but we had plenty of meetings that we've been talking about travel time and this issue.

845
01:07:46,500 --> 01:07:57,780
And we color it under the petter of performance evaluation for our city attorney.

846
01:08:00,100 --> 01:08:08,560
So if we've been having these discussions for the last year and a half about travel time and

847
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:14,860
a dispute regarding the contract, and we've pretty much resolved a lot of the issues with

848
01:08:14,860 --> 01:08:16,260
with this new contract, right?

849
01:08:18,980 --> 01:08:21,980
What does that have to do with the performance evaluation

850
01:08:21,980 --> 01:08:23,780
of Tarris Bogha?

851
01:08:26,500 --> 01:08:28,740
With the City Council evaluating performance,

852
01:08:29,060 --> 01:08:32,760
I was brought in as I said under a one very small area

853
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,440
as part of that evaluation process.

854
01:08:34,620 --> 01:08:37,700
My understanding was that you were conducting an evaluation,

855
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,040
you had questions that were relevant to that evaluation

856
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:41,420
and that's what I was giving you.

857
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:43,920
One of the reasons why I prepared for you,

858
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:45,320
this subsequent legal opinion,

859
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:51,380
and is because when I was then asked to address the potential litigation, it was not the evaluation.

860
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,940
And that's the reason why you have this separate analysis because there are two distinct issues.

861
01:08:55,500 --> 01:09:02,100
Yeah, so we've been having numerous executive sessions all under the banner of performance evaluation.

862
01:09:02,380 --> 01:09:05,760
And let me ask Jason Killibrew.

863
01:09:06,060 --> 01:09:09,340
No, we only had one on performance evaluation.

864
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,240
We've only had one on performance evaluation.

865
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:41,760
Councilmember Vargas, my recollection is that the conversation that occurred with that heading spurred into side conversations in direction by the city council that has led to the hiring of BBK, a special council to look into very specific scope in order for the city council to further evaluate the city attorney and make decisions for the future of what that city attorney position looks like, which is what is before you this evening.

866
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:51,740
So Claudia and Denise documented the issue, the crux of this argument, a year and a half ago.

867
01:09:52,140 --> 01:09:53,440
We've had numerous meetings.

868
01:09:54,020 --> 01:10:00,380
Only one time Cecilia just said was about performance, but we've had numerous executive sessions

869
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:05,760
in closed session that had nothing to do with Terrence Bogus performance.

870
01:10:06,580 --> 01:10:10,900
And that's another one of my issues that I'm bringing up right now is because

871
01:10:10,900 --> 01:10:12,780
So I believe that's a brown ad violation.

872
01:10:13,780 --> 01:10:17,680
I also do because there is conversations that have occurred.

873
01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:23,960
Questions that have been had specifically at the tail end of meetings on a non-agentized items.

874
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:28,080
So I don't disagree with you that there was conversations that happened.

875
01:10:28,700 --> 01:10:32,340
But those were quickly resolved because those were not on the agenda at that time.

876
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:33,760
So that is my-

877
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:35,580
Those are my items that Mr. Vargas brought up.

878
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:37,680
That is my recollection.

879
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:44,800
To, for example, hiring Sonia Cervello the first time to evaluate the claim about travel time.

880
01:10:45,060 --> 01:10:45,520
Correct.

881
01:10:45,900 --> 01:10:55,020
Okay, so I specifically asked, at the February 2020-26 meeting, was there anything to report out, and again, it's on the state.

882
01:10:55,340 --> 01:10:57,260
Tarris Bogas said there was nothing to report out.

883
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:07,200
If that was a Brown Act violation, it should have been clearly reported out that yes, we hired an attorney to evaluate something to do with the contract.

884
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,620
I don't think that would be a reportable action as required under the brown.

885
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:17,260
So if I'm wrong, but I believe that that issue was brought up at the end of the meeting by you, Steve.

886
01:11:18,020 --> 01:11:22,220
And I mentioned, I said that that's not on the agenda, and it's not something that we can discuss.

887
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:31,400
You took a vote, Marty put forward the vote, Blair seconded the vote, to hire an attorney, specifically to educate me on travel time.

888
01:11:32,060 --> 01:11:33,940
No, no, no, no.

889
01:11:34,900 --> 01:11:40,260
I mean, if that's what you feel, then that's what you feel, but there's a very specific definition

890
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:46,000
for what is reportable as a reportable action that Terrence would be in.

891
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:50,660
Every conversation that occurs in closed session or direction given to staff is not necessarily

892
01:11:50,660 --> 01:11:52,560
reportable action under the Brown Act.

893
01:11:52,620 --> 01:11:54,000
Brown Act is very specific.

894
01:11:54,160 --> 01:12:00,680
It says, you know, if you vote to initiate litigation, if you approve contract with your

895
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:06,300
bargaining units. If you approve a settlement that is final, the Brown Act is very specific

896
01:12:06,300 --> 01:12:11,180
as to what is reportable. But just because you give direction to someone, or you say,

897
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:16,120
we will vote to direct our city manager, UX, and not necessarily reportable under the

898
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:17,900
Brown Act, not required to be reported out.

899
01:12:18,380 --> 01:12:26,760
All right. Are you familiar? I sent you a memo when you first were tasked with reviewing

900
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:37,660
this I sent you a memo and I outlined specifically a clause in we find it here health and safety

901
01:12:37,660 --> 01:12:43,500
code 33130 regarding the lease agreement and travel time.

902
01:12:43,700 --> 01:12:48,100
I would be happy, yes I do and I would be happy to address that but not wanting you to

903
01:12:48,100 --> 01:12:49,340
get into a brown act violation.

904
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,760
The item on the agenda is approval of a legal services agreement.

905
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:57,580
My understanding is that staff is working on that other and that that will be brought forward to you

906
01:12:57,580 --> 01:13:01,500
I'd be happy to return at that time to advise you on that health and safety code section

907
01:13:03,900 --> 01:13:10,300
Shap me down on that one. Sorry. It's just I those are the parameters. Okay. We'll have another opportunity. That's fine

908
01:13:10,300 --> 01:13:16,740
Okay, so Sonya again. Thank you for your your work and your help. I thought you were very helpful

909
01:13:17,780 --> 01:13:24,020
You educated a lot of staff allow my colleagues on issues about travel time and

910
01:13:24,580 --> 01:13:28,680
And you clarified some things for me as well.

911
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:30,400
So thank you for your service.

912
01:13:30,700 --> 01:13:31,080
You're welcome.

913
01:13:31,300 --> 01:13:32,340
Thank you for the opportunity.

914
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:32,720
Yes.

915
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:36,200
Monica, guys, you have a couple more questions here.

916
01:13:36,660 --> 01:13:43,420
So first of all, you of course worked on this contract in collaboration with staff and

917
01:13:43,420 --> 01:13:44,660
with Sonya.

918
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:53,840
And your staff was incredibly helpful a year and a half ago in helping Claudia.

919
01:13:54,860 --> 01:14:00,660
put together these numbers that led up to this $200,000 travel time dispute.

920
01:14:01,300 --> 01:14:06,780
So I want to thank you and your staff and make sure they understand that I am grateful for their work.

921
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:13,600
I just want you to be there as I read some of the positive things that are going to come out of this lease agreement.

922
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:23,020
All right, one, it limits the contract to one year with the promise of going out to bid in October of 2027.

923
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:29,740
And although this will still take three votes, at least it's in there that it's a one-year contract.

924
01:14:30,620 --> 01:14:31,760
That's a positive.

925
01:14:32,900 --> 01:14:37,800
Number two, it reduces the termination timeline from six months to 30 days.

926
01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:45,820
In the contract that was reinstated and amended since at least 2024, 2004,

927
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:53,640
it extended out the termination clause to six months, which is beyond the standard

928
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:59,980
service, professional service agreement. So that's 30 days. Sonya was very helpful of-

929
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:31,260
We're helping us with that as well. So it reduced the termination from six months to 30 days. This new lease, this has to do with the lease payments, but the lease payments is addressed in the future. But it's going from $1.35 a square foot to nearly 450 square foot. I'm going to stop you right there. We don't know that yet. We don't know that. And that's a discussion for another meeting. If you recall, it was stated earlier in the

930
01:15:32,060 --> 01:15:36,820
That's the least that the lease is under negotiation, so the negotiating it.

931
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,380
I have a copy of the lease right here, and this has come up in our next council meeting.

932
01:15:40,540 --> 01:15:44,200
I'll address it there, but I'll clear that it's being negotiated.

933
01:15:45,340 --> 01:15:47,160
Apparently, you don't want to accept what you hear.

934
01:15:49,110 --> 01:15:54,790
Okay, so we'll address that at our next meeting, but the lease that was presented

935
01:15:54,790 --> 01:16:00,070
to us a month ago that was going to be on the agenda, that this got bombed from the agenda.

936
01:16:00,070 --> 01:16:04,750
a month ago, specifically says that we're going to about 450 square foot.

937
01:16:06,550 --> 01:16:08,510
That's what are you talking about today, though.

938
01:16:08,770 --> 01:16:14,250
So if we're not talking about that today, it was a proposed, but it was not accepted and

939
01:16:14,250 --> 01:16:15,430
it's being negotiated.

940
01:16:15,770 --> 01:16:16,370
Okay, this is good.

941
01:16:16,650 --> 01:16:19,910
This is good that we're having this discussion because it's the first time hearing that

942
01:16:19,910 --> 01:16:23,630
this lease is not being accepted.

943
01:16:23,630 --> 01:16:29,290
That's that just gives more more evidence to what I hope to see the issue.

944
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:35,410
So apparently early on when you're told it's being negotiated that didn't indicate to you that it wasn't accepted.

945
01:16:35,730 --> 01:16:37,550
No, I need to hear the word it wasn't accepted.

946
01:16:37,770 --> 01:16:38,970
No, I have a copy of it right here.

947
01:16:39,270 --> 01:16:45,250
No, no, when you were told earlier that it's being negotiated earlier in this meeting or did you not hear that?

948
01:16:45,770 --> 01:16:48,430
I must have missed that because I guess you didn't miss it.

949
01:16:48,490 --> 01:16:49,510
That's okay. That's okay.

950
01:16:49,610 --> 01:16:52,670
Let me get to my next point Monica of praise that I'd like to give you.

951
01:16:53,750 --> 01:17:00,850
It takes away language because all of these contracts have been restated and amended.

952
01:17:01,370 --> 01:17:05,610
And they're restated and amended to 1984, not to 2004.

953
01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:11,210
Even the 2004 was restated and amended, okay?

954
01:17:12,430 --> 01:17:20,570
So RWG, or the previous law firms have built in little nuggets, and

955
01:17:20,570 --> 01:17:23,610
and then we've just restated and amended.

956
01:17:24,710 --> 01:17:28,070
So some of the language that's not in this new contract

957
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:33,610
is the talks about bonuses or lump sums

958
01:17:33,970 --> 01:17:35,050
for bond issues.

959
01:17:36,270 --> 01:17:39,210
So in our previous contracts that have been restated

960
01:17:39,210 --> 01:17:43,190
and amended, if there's a bond issuance,

961
01:17:43,870 --> 01:17:48,990
the law firm gets $35,000 flat rate.

962
01:17:50,230 --> 01:17:59,790
plus a percentage of 0.12% if it's more than 5 million, and then if it's 10 million,

963
01:18:00,250 --> 01:18:04,730
it goes down a little, if it's 0.10%, and then it's even less, if it's 20 million.

964
01:18:05,830 --> 01:18:06,830
You're aware of these, right?

965
01:18:07,610 --> 01:18:10,210
You're aware that there was a language in there?

966
01:18:10,910 --> 01:18:12,950
Because your staff removed that language.

967
01:18:15,540 --> 01:18:16,520
Jason, you want to address that?

968
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:20,240
the bond language that gave you 35,000.

969
01:18:20,540 --> 01:18:21,000
Thank you.

970
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:21,580
I

971
01:18:28,490 --> 01:18:34,810
don't want to speak from harmonic or city manager, but this agreement that you have before you, as I mentioned, I've made my first comment, is a modernization.

972
01:18:34,810 --> 01:18:36,430
I believe of all those documents.

973
01:18:36,870 --> 01:18:42,430
There's a provision in section 10, which accumulates everything that says any of your past agreements are all gone.

974
01:18:42,590 --> 01:18:43,930
This is the only agreement that's going to govern.

975
01:18:45,130 --> 01:18:51,390
It was my recommendation that you remove that language because it has become kind of common practice,

976
01:18:51,390 --> 01:18:57,050
that at least for bond work, that most cities are now going out with what we call like many RFPs to do that work.

977
01:18:57,430 --> 01:19:07,090
There was an opinion on government code section 1090 issues, and we believe that it's just while you can include those in your contracts.

978
01:19:07,530 --> 01:19:18,730
It was my recommendation that if you want to modernize this and to address some of the historical issues that you've had that you just take that out and if the city decides to go to bond issue, the law firm that you have, as well as others can bid on that.

979
01:19:18,730 --> 01:19:28,030
So these changes that you're referencing, I don't want you to like criticize staff or I worked with staff closely, but it was just a modernization contract to bring you up to the year.

980
01:19:28,030 --> 01:19:32,090
So thank you, Sonny, I'm praising staff and you for taking that out.

981
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:45,950
So Monica, please come up there and receive your praise, so in the past, it was restated and amended that we were going to give 35,000 for each bond.

982
01:19:46,150 --> 01:19:47,970
And then you know the city's built on redevelopment.

983
01:19:47,970 --> 01:19:52,190
So there's been redevelopment bonds, a significant amount.

984
01:19:52,510 --> 01:19:58,070
At one point, we were two thirds of a billion dollars of bond debtness, right?

985
01:20:00,430 --> 01:20:00,950
The 20 point-

986
01:20:00,950 --> 01:20:04,190
Was that just give money, or was that for legal services-

987
01:20:04,190 --> 01:20:07,250
No, no, no, no, no, that was the total bond, the total bond, the total bond-

988
01:20:07,250 --> 01:20:10,870
So I think, again, this is one where you have to be clear in your language.

989
01:20:11,510 --> 01:20:15,410
And this is not just a giving and the law firm, $35,000,

990
01:20:16,270 --> 01:20:20,690
There's work required for attorneys to do with bond issuance.

991
01:20:21,030 --> 01:20:31,650
So as we just learned, now we would do a version of a mini RFP to hire a legal service provider may or may not be RWG.

992
01:20:31,930 --> 01:20:37,450
But in the past we probably did everything with RWG and that included a cost of 35,000.

993
01:20:37,550 --> 01:20:39,490
And those rates by the way we're not unusual.

994
01:20:39,890 --> 01:20:44,430
My law firm has very similar contracts that are historic, the older contracts.

995
01:20:45,010 --> 01:20:47,370
I do not find any of those numbers to be onerous.

996
01:20:47,490 --> 01:20:52,130
In fact, just for the record, I do want to share a comment with you that I shared with your city manager.

997
01:20:52,710 --> 01:20:55,350
I looked at the rates in the contract because I just did the contract.

998
01:20:55,350 --> 01:20:56,090
I didn't do the rates.

999
01:20:56,090 --> 01:20:59,230
That was negotiated and I think that you're getting really competitive rates.

1000
01:20:59,230 --> 01:21:03,030
I have to tell you there is a lot of cities that I'm aware of that I service.

1001
01:21:03,150 --> 01:21:07,330
My law firm services that would not do the work for the rates that are proposed for you in this contract.

1002
01:21:07,530 --> 01:21:10,730
I just think that that is embarrassed you should know that from a market standpoint.

1003
01:21:10,730 --> 01:21:30,830
So, Sonia, since you brought it up, I did a seven-city survey, and I presented that information to Monica, and I presented all the contracts, including contracts from RWG, and the rates that are currently charging are in line with those other seven cities.

1004
01:21:30,990 --> 01:21:32,250
You said that in your opening statement.

1005
01:21:32,430 --> 01:21:32,970
Yes, exactly.

1006
01:21:33,010 --> 01:21:33,770
So thank you very much.

1007
01:21:33,770 --> 01:21:43,310
All right, so Hanukkah, would you and could you pull the 2020 bond issuance in that issuance?

1008
01:21:43,670 --> 01:21:46,350
It's a very thick document.

1009
01:21:46,630 --> 01:21:48,290
You have three of them in your vault.

1010
01:21:48,970 --> 01:21:52,230
And one of them lists all of the checks that went out.

1011
01:21:52,290 --> 01:22:00,630
Could you tell me how much went to RWG specifically for this $35,000 bonus plus this percentage?

1012
01:22:02,050 --> 01:22:10,610
because if the work that they did for a $5 million bond amounts to a certain amount,

1013
01:22:10,990 --> 01:22:15,330
whether it's a $20 million bond, why they should get more in a bonus money.

1014
01:22:15,630 --> 01:22:16,750
I think that's-

1015
01:22:16,750 --> 01:22:18,770
Are you talking about work that was done when?

1016
01:22:19,390 --> 01:22:23,470
The 2020 water bond, which is our biggest bond that we've done most recently.

1017
01:22:23,990 --> 01:22:26,490
I would just like to know the number that was given to RWG.

1018
01:22:26,910 --> 01:22:28,210
In the future, could you do that for me?

1019
01:22:29,070 --> 01:22:29,310
Yes.

1020
01:22:29,310 --> 01:22:30,330
Thank you, ma'am.

1021
01:22:30,650 --> 01:22:31,410
I appreciate that.

1022
01:22:33,490 --> 01:22:42,690
Finally, so we've had these quite a few positives that came out of this process for a year and a half.

1023
01:22:42,910 --> 01:22:44,810
I want to thank the city Charger.

1024
01:22:45,670 --> 01:22:48,290
I want to thank Claudia Kumski.

1025
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:52,970
I did quite a bit of work on this.

1026
01:22:53,110 --> 01:22:57,230
I've been beaten about quite a bit for bringing this issue forward.

1027
01:22:59,310 --> 01:23:16,490
So I do have a request of my council colleagues, the $200,000 I believe is in dispute that they're the statute of limitations since a member of the council did bring it to the address to the city manager.

1028
01:23:16,490 --> 01:23:22,490
here. The city manager told me that it was handled. I didn't relook at those numbers

1029
01:23:23,930 --> 01:23:29,090
for quite a few years, although every four months approximately, do I go through the

1030
01:23:29,090 --> 01:23:34,330
check register in your office, approximately every four months? All right, so there was

1031
01:23:34,330 --> 01:23:39,310
times when I didn't dig deep into law firm because that wasn't my issue. It was another issue

1032
01:23:39,310 --> 01:23:44,150
I had. So I'm looking through there. I do that to justify the money that I get every

1033
01:23:47,190 --> 01:23:55,470
We, as a council, when we get the warrant registers that would just approve tonight, and it was a 5-0-0, we would approve those all the time.

1034
01:23:56,230 --> 01:24:04,970
All we see on there is $11,000 base amount and then $22,000 this month for other legal services.

1035
01:24:05,230 --> 01:24:06,070
We don't see the details.

1036
01:24:06,070 --> 01:24:14,570
else. In your office, in your vault, you have a file folder with all of the receipts and

1037
01:24:14,570 --> 01:24:21,450
they're put in order, right? So you know exactly where you know exactly to go to three

1038
01:24:21,450 --> 01:24:24,710
quarters in and that's where you're going to find a particular receipt. You're very organized,

1039
01:24:24,970 --> 01:24:31,450
right? So if I wanted to go look at those receipts and go through the monthly register, I could

1040
01:24:31,450 --> 01:24:32,790
If you do that, if I wanted, right?

1041
01:24:33,190 --> 01:24:33,550
That's correct.

1042
01:24:33,610 --> 01:24:34,990
And a citizen could do that also, correct?

1043
01:24:35,570 --> 01:24:36,050
That's correct.

1044
01:24:36,410 --> 01:24:41,530
Okay, where are the invoices for the law firm?

1045
01:24:43,810 --> 01:24:44,770
Are they in that file folder?

1046
01:24:46,270 --> 01:24:47,830
Yeah, they would be in the file folder,

1047
01:24:48,010 --> 01:24:50,290
where we keep all the invoices and payments.

1048
01:24:50,570 --> 01:24:52,430
So if I go in there and ask you for the won't register

1049
01:24:52,430 --> 01:24:56,630
for the month of May, and you give me this file folder,

1050
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:58,730
it's a courtian folder, and I went through that,

1051
01:24:58,730 --> 01:25:02,690
I would find RWD's law firm invoices in there?

1052
01:25:03,010 --> 01:25:03,150
Yes.

1053
01:25:03,710 --> 01:25:04,070
Okay.

1054
01:25:04,110 --> 01:25:04,890
So I have a question.

1055
01:25:05,570 --> 01:25:06,290
Is there a second?

1056
01:25:06,650 --> 01:25:07,270
Is there a second?

1057
01:25:07,370 --> 01:25:14,030
Any attorneys invoices for outside services are, the attorney that handles our personnel

1058
01:25:14,030 --> 01:25:22,510
matters, the RWG attorneys that handle the planning commission, all those invoices would

1059
01:25:22,510 --> 01:25:22,610
be.

1060
01:25:22,630 --> 01:25:24,930
Any attorney we use, the invoices would be in there.

1061
01:25:24,930 --> 01:25:27,730
And it would state what that charge was for.

1062
01:25:28,430 --> 01:25:32,750
That's correct, unless it's a personnel matter, we keep that specific detail separately.

1063
01:25:33,070 --> 01:25:36,450
But yes, you can get a general idea of the invoice payment.

1064
01:25:36,810 --> 01:25:37,030
Okay.

1065
01:25:37,450 --> 01:25:43,190
All right, so are there two file folders that you have for each month in your vault?

1066
01:25:43,870 --> 01:25:47,290
One for RWG and one for all other invoices?

1067
01:25:48,570 --> 01:25:49,090
Yes.

1068
01:25:49,090 --> 01:25:55,510
So if I asked this member of the public to look at the invoices for the month of May,

1069
01:25:56,150 --> 01:26:01,750
and you had me a accordion folder, and I went through that, I would not see the invoices

1070
01:26:01,750 --> 01:26:02,710
for RWG.

1071
01:26:03,690 --> 01:26:03,930
Because first of all, they're confidential.

1072
01:26:03,930 --> 01:26:07,810
Well, we would apply to the invoices related to the month of May.

1073
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:11,490
So if we paid RWG in May, we would have that for you.

1074
01:26:11,690 --> 01:26:12,970
But you'd have two file folders.

1075
01:26:14,430 --> 01:26:22,930
Because it's very, very important, because in Sonia's note, she says that we had ample

1076
01:26:22,930 --> 01:26:31,950
opportunity to review and that the council has not reviewed these invoices in 2019.

1077
01:26:33,290 --> 01:26:37,610
The opportunity is there to review it if you had questions, but yes.

1078
01:26:37,610 --> 01:26:47,970
So in 2019, I had questions and then in 2025, I came back to the same question and then I started digging again and I found the same issue, right?

1079
01:26:48,870 --> 01:27:01,710
But in my role as a council member, if I asked for the invoices, I would generally get the invoices of all the general generic invoices, not the RWG because you have two file folders is my point, right?

1080
01:27:01,710 --> 01:27:03,390
No, not necessarily.

1081
01:27:03,830 --> 01:27:07,090
I mean, if you're asking for a specific month or

1082
01:27:07,890 --> 01:27:16,110
during the based on the disbursement register, we would give you what we pay during that month or

1083
01:27:16,110 --> 01:27:17,010
a week.

1084
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:27,090
The reason why this is important, Sonia, is because part of the responsibility of the law firm is

1085
01:27:27,090 --> 01:27:34,550
is to be open as open as possible with the billing practices and the invoices practices.

1086
01:27:35,570 --> 01:27:36,410
You mentioned that.

1087
01:27:37,590 --> 01:27:38,490
You taught me that.

1088
01:27:40,410 --> 01:27:48,830
So if I actually wanted to dig into as a responsible council member, I would actually have to go above

1089
01:27:48,830 --> 01:27:54,110
and beyond and ask for two file folders, one for the general and then one specifically for

1090
01:27:54,110 --> 01:27:58,330
of the law firm in order to do that full research.

1091
01:27:58,990 --> 01:28:02,270
When I was told that the issue was handled, right?

1092
01:28:03,110 --> 01:28:05,990
Subsequently, I have gone in every four or five months,

1093
01:28:06,410 --> 01:28:08,950
or every three and four months, whatever, every four months,

1094
01:28:09,850 --> 01:28:13,670
and I would generally get just the initial fire folders,

1095
01:28:14,050 --> 01:28:20,270
that the initial monthly invoices, and I wouldn't see

1096
01:28:20,270 --> 01:28:22,490
the RWG invoices either.

1097
01:28:23,570 --> 01:28:31,910
So I'm sorry, you asked for the RWG invoices, but you got a separate file folder that didn't include the RWG invoices I'm trying to understand.

1098
01:28:32,070 --> 01:28:43,630
In 2025, when I started this process in March of 2025, I specifically asked for the RWG invoices, and then I asked for electronic copies for each month subsequent.

1099
01:28:44,470 --> 01:28:53,390
Prior to that, I was only reviewing the monthly statements that did not include the RWG invoices, right?

1100
01:28:54,110 --> 01:28:55,510
So that's why it never occurred to me.

1101
01:28:55,590 --> 01:29:01,250
They included the total amount paid, but they didn't include the itemization.

1102
01:29:01,610 --> 01:29:09,810
Correct. So that's why I would contend, Sonya, that there is a cause of action,

1103
01:29:10,750 --> 01:29:17,350
that I would specifically deny the information when I sought that information out.

1104
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:19,430
So I think there is a point of contention.

1105
01:29:20,630 --> 01:29:24,150
So Steve, I would contend that there was a missed opportunity in 2019.

1106
01:29:24,330 --> 01:29:31,250
Because you loved to point out that I signed the updated, the most recent amendment prior to what we're doing potentially this evening.

1107
01:29:31,470 --> 01:29:31,650
Sure.

1108
01:29:31,810 --> 01:29:36,270
And that's just because I was mayor, not because any special interest in it, I was the mayor in 2019.

1109
01:29:36,270 --> 01:29:37,150
I acknowledge that absolutely.

1110
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:55,830
I think that really was a misopportunity because I can stay, I have no memory as the person who did the final review and signed it, we all voted on it, that that was a misopportunity to say hey, we're doing this amendment because of I, Steve August, have a concern about travel time.

1111
01:29:55,830 --> 01:29:58,130
I have no recollection of that.

1112
01:29:59,010 --> 01:29:59,970
I look to my...

1113
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:29,980
Right. I don't see anybody remembering that. I can say that our former city attorney did not share with me why we were doing this particular amendment. We were doing an update. There was no conversation of that specific concern. So I truly believe that was the missed opportunity. If your concern was that we have a city attorney who is now billing for travel time. And you did not think that was appropriate.

1114
01:30:29,980 --> 01:30:36,160
none of that was discussed, disclosed, mentioned in any way, shape, or form.

1115
01:30:36,480 --> 01:30:40,320
And I would ask that is the issue of the missed opportunity.

1116
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:44,360
We, you are sharing, there was a conversation.

1117
01:30:44,940 --> 01:30:48,520
Terrence is a party to the conversation he had with Bill.

1118
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:49,880
Bill is no longer here.

1119
01:30:50,700 --> 01:30:57,840
So we all after the conversation you had and the city manager told you it was handled.

1120
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:04,780
It was handled without amendment as it turns out that was not what you that didn't count has been handled for you

1121
01:31:04,780 --> 01:31:08,080
But there we have none of us who who were in the room and voted on that

1122
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:16,540
Have any memory of that conversation. I don't believe it happened and so there for that was our missed opportunity

1123
01:31:16,540 --> 01:31:22,520
Sure, but I think it was a missed opportunity and that we as a council were misled

1124
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:29,460
I don't know because I didn't have any conversation about travel or of us were uninformed.

1125
01:31:29,740 --> 01:31:34,340
You kept that conversation private between you and Bill and I don't know if it was a

1126
01:31:34,340 --> 01:31:39,500
gotcha moment for the future or what, but you didn't discuss it in open session with

1127
01:31:39,500 --> 01:31:40,560
any of the rest of us.

1128
01:31:40,620 --> 01:31:43,540
And when you voted on the amendment, you didn't bring it up at that point, either.

1129
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:45,540
That's a really unnecessary matter, mayor.

1130
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:46,600
What do you mean it's unnecessary?

1131
01:31:47,060 --> 01:31:47,680
I'm not talking to you.

1132
01:31:47,740 --> 01:31:48,320
I'm talking to the mayor.

1133
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:52,060
It wasn't gotcha moment because I was here.

1134
01:31:52,060 --> 01:31:55,740
by the city manager that it was handled, that the issue was handled, right?

1135
01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:59,720
But why wouldn't you, when we were talking about that vote, why wouldn't you have then

1136
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:04,520
said to all of us, this is the reason that this restated agreement is here,

1137
01:32:04,860 --> 01:32:08,600
because I discovered this, and I want the rest of you to know about it.

1138
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:12,540
Because that would be grandstanding, and I wasn't grandstanding, I was just bringing up

1139
01:32:12,540 --> 01:32:14,740
something, and the city manager said he handled it.

1140
01:32:14,780 --> 01:32:18,600
It wouldn't be grandstanding, it would be sharing pertinent information with your colleagues.

1141
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:25,520
I guess I trusted the City Manager when he said he handled it, that it was handled.

1142
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:29,160
All right, and I assume that meant that the issue was no more.

1143
01:32:30,020 --> 01:32:37,060
It was a missed opportunity because in the 2000, in the Amendment 8, Richard Watson and

1144
01:32:37,060 --> 01:32:43,020
Gershon should have specifically addressed the issue and said we are going to start

1145
01:32:43,020 --> 01:32:47,720
charge for travel time, or we are going to continue to charge for travel time, they didn't

1146
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:52,680
I didn't even mention it, and the issue that was brought up by me was specific to travel

1147
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:52,960
time.

1148
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:57,860
And I wish you had shared that with us because then we would have known to look for that.

1149
01:32:57,980 --> 01:33:03,800
But we were unaware that you had an issue with respect to travel time.

1150
01:33:04,060 --> 01:33:04,680
At least I was.

1151
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:06,320
I don't want to be free, but I'm getting the same thing.

1152
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:07,540
But we're all aware of it now, correct?

1153
01:33:08,260 --> 01:33:08,900
We're all aware of it now.

1154
01:33:08,900 --> 01:33:13,680
And in the version that is before us this evening, it is very clearly delineated.

1155
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:14,060
Yes.

1156
01:33:14,060 --> 01:33:20,140
And Monica, that my last point is in this contract, it specifically says that they're

1157
01:33:20,140 --> 01:33:25,340
only going to charge IRS rates from door to door, closest door.

1158
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:32,040
So from this door, at the Brea office, if they approve this new lease to the Orange County

1159
01:33:32,040 --> 01:33:34,060
Courthouse, for example, that's allowed.

1160
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:39,460
The new lease specifically states that we will not be charged attorney travel time

1161
01:33:39,460 --> 01:33:40,700
for City Council meeting.

1162
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:50,640
I'm sorry for city council meetings and planning commission meetings, so yes, you accomplish that and that's a good win.

1163
01:33:50,640 --> 01:34:08,920
The staff accomplished that, so thank you finally Monica. I appreciate that, okay? All right, I still have an issue with 200,000 I would like to just wrap this up because I've gone on long enough and I thank you for your patience. I thank people in the audience for the patience and the staff for the patience.

1164
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:23,080
The $200,000 is not been addressed, I disagree with Sonia, that this is a case that should

1165
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:30,720
be contested, specifically Sonia, you're familiar with Vargas V-Balls.

1166
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:37,680
One of the costs is over $600,000 in cash, in legal fees that you created, that one?

1167
01:34:37,680 --> 01:35:00,060
So, are you at a time I sued the city and I was not a council member, it was Vargas V balls and so it is doable to correct a wrong or proceed wrong and that is now case law, so I'd encourage you to look at that.

1168
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:06,620
My issue is I would like there to be a tolling agreement on this contract.

1169
01:35:06,740 --> 01:35:15,880
If you approve this tonight, since you're not going to seek the $200,000 restitution, which I believe is only one opinion,

1170
01:35:17,500 --> 01:35:21,360
you don't think it is a correct, you don't agree with me, right?

1171
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:23,580
You don't think that there's no-

1172
01:35:23,580 --> 01:35:25,360
There's no, here's no.

1173
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:25,800
No, no, no, no, no, no.

1174
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:26,860
You'd go $200,000.

1175
01:35:27,020 --> 01:35:29,320
Can I, can I, let me, here's my concern, okay?

1176
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:32,240
Because in the community, I'm hearing

1177
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:34,620
that you're looking for an attorney to sue the city again.

1178
01:35:35,100 --> 01:35:38,860
So, suing the city once, taking silver, 650,000,

1179
01:35:38,980 --> 01:35:41,380
and taxpayer dollars and saying, look at me,

1180
01:35:41,460 --> 01:35:42,260
I got case law.

1181
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:44,840
What an hero I am, you're looking to do it again?

1182
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:48,160
I'm just, you're looking to sue the city again.

1183
01:35:48,460 --> 01:35:49,780
You just mentioned that again.

1184
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:52,200
That it's a good case, that it could be one.

1185
01:35:52,200 --> 01:36:00,360
So you're asking us to support you in suing the city again? No, I'm asking you to cover $200,000 that's sitting on the table

1186
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:04,580
Yeah, because you want to sue the city again for $200,000. I do not want to sue the city

1187
01:36:04,580 --> 01:36:11,600
I wish I wish I wish the law firm would make an offer and compromise and release and say instead of us going out

1188
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:16,140
And when you sit there and you talk about how great a job you did instead of

1189
01:36:16,140 --> 01:36:25,980
As soon as I have $650,000, a taxpayer dollars, and then you sit here and you tell us it was a good case, it's case law, it shows it can be done.

1190
01:36:26,500 --> 01:36:33,520
Marty, you're actually advertising, you want to hire an attorney to take the temperature down for a minute, okay?

1191
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:44,460
I tend to agree with the legal opinion that we're paying for, and I think it would be a waste of taxpayer dollars to go out.

1192
01:36:44,460 --> 01:36:49,220
But to sue for that is going to cost more than what you alleged they owe us.

1193
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:50,960
Does that make sense?

1194
01:36:51,100 --> 01:36:52,100
I'm not suggesting that we sue.

1195
01:36:52,900 --> 01:36:53,240
I'm not going to sue.

1196
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:55,960
Well, you're out on the street looking for somebody to handle it on a contingency.

1197
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:57,700
I don't know where you're getting the information from.

1198
01:36:58,020 --> 01:36:58,740
Oh, people talk.

1199
01:36:59,020 --> 01:36:59,560
It's all over the place.

1200
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:00,240
It's good information.

1201
01:37:00,940 --> 01:37:02,640
I don't know where you're getting this information.

1202
01:37:03,140 --> 01:37:04,840
You basically stated yourself.

1203
01:37:05,940 --> 01:37:10,260
I'd like to maybe just offer one more piece of advice that came up because of this conversation.

1204
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:12,580
We talked about missed opportunities.

1205
01:37:12,780 --> 01:37:14,340
I want to make sure you don't miss an opportunity.

1206
01:37:14,340 --> 01:37:18,340
If you're going to move forward tonight, I'd highly recommend that you add

1207
01:37:18,340 --> 01:37:19,980
to section 10F of the agreement.

1208
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:22,720
It's the integration section in your agreement.

1209
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:26,580
What that section does is it says this is the agreement that will govern from here on out.

1210
01:37:26,940 --> 01:37:28,600
It doesn't refer to all those old agreements.

1211
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:30,700
And I would recommend this.

1212
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:35,180
The parties acknowledge and agree that effective, as of the effective date of the agreement,

1213
01:37:35,420 --> 01:37:39,160
any and all billing disputes, any disputes regarding payment, claims,

1214
01:37:39,460 --> 01:37:42,020
offsets, credits, adjustments, or other disagreements,

1215
01:37:42,020 --> 01:37:53,340
are rising out of or relating to any legal services performed, or agreements entered into prior to the effective date of this agreement, are hereby fully and finally resolved, compromised and settled.

1216
01:37:54,380 --> 01:37:56,960
There's an exception for any outstanding and voices.

1217
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:04,660
I'd recommend that you add this language I've provided it to staff, just so that once and for all as you move forward, you put this issue to rest.

1218
01:38:04,660 --> 01:38:07,760
This would be if you were going to decide to move forward with the agreement.

1219
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:11,800
There's that language I'd recommend to you, and I've provided it to staff this evening.

1220
01:38:12,140 --> 01:38:14,480
So, Sonia, is that in your memo?

1221
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:16,660
No, she just said she's adding on the floor.

1222
01:38:17,260 --> 01:38:18,840
I'm recommending this piece to you.

1223
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:21,800
You're on the fly recommending that we not do any tolling.

1224
01:38:22,060 --> 01:38:23,140
I'm asking for a tolling.

1225
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:24,880
I'm asking for my colleagues to do a tolling.

1226
01:38:25,060 --> 01:38:27,720
Is that a motion?

1227
01:38:28,700 --> 01:38:29,880
Sonia can't make a motion.

1228
01:38:29,940 --> 01:38:31,180
No, Steve, I'm asking you.

1229
01:38:31,380 --> 01:38:31,880
Is that a motion?

1230
01:38:33,300 --> 01:38:33,700
Steve.

1231
01:38:33,700 --> 01:38:33,980
What?

1232
01:38:34,260 --> 01:38:35,020
Is that a motion?

1233
01:38:35,220 --> 01:38:35,800
Is what a motion?

1234
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:36,480
Tolling.

1235
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:39,860
Yes, I would like there to be a tolling agreement where we-

1236
01:38:39,860 --> 01:38:41,060
Okay, so you're making a motion?

1237
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:42,000
I would like to make a motion.

1238
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:42,220
Okay.

1239
01:38:42,380 --> 01:38:43,140
Do we have a second?

1240
01:38:45,650 --> 01:38:45,870
All right.

1241
01:38:46,150 --> 01:38:47,390
Seeing none, the motion fails.

1242
01:38:47,630 --> 01:38:53,850
Can I make a second motion that we ask or we do a compromising release regarding $200,000

1243
01:38:54,550 --> 01:39:00,870
of money that is allegedly owed to us by Richard Watson and Gerson?

1244
01:39:01,070 --> 01:39:02,810
Can I put forward a motion for that?

1245
01:39:02,950 --> 01:39:03,670
Do I have a second?

1246
01:39:03,670 --> 01:39:06,500
What do you want to do?

1247
01:39:06,860 --> 01:39:19,480
I would like to ask for a meeting so that we can meet and confer with RWG regarding $200,000 of disputed monies that I alleged is owed.

1248
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:23,680
The city treasurer alleged is owed and our staff is documented.

1249
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:34,240
So see if the problem is we have an attorney here who's telling us that there was a missed opportunity, the dispute is really only your dispute.

1250
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:39,800
So that's really the crux of what's happening here, the language that we were just provided

1251
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:46,620
as a recommendation to add is saying we're done looking backward, we are looking forward.

1252
01:39:46,820 --> 01:39:51,880
We have a modernized contract, our expectation is that that will carry us October to October.

1253
01:39:52,500 --> 01:39:57,160
There's conversation of going through the RFP process for legal services.

1254
01:39:57,160 --> 01:40:05,180
Why are you so focused on a dollar amount that you have created as a dispute?

1255
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:11,280
Literally, you have created, there is, you have, you have with your team.

1256
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:19,420
No, we've gone through this so many times, we've done it privately in the city manager's office.

1257
01:40:19,860 --> 01:40:22,540
You and I met it.

1258
01:40:23,900 --> 01:40:33,220
Not everything has to be blown up and convert, like talked about, for over an hour, again and again and again.

1259
01:40:33,780 --> 01:40:39,640
I would like to make the motion that we move forward, add the language that Sonia has suggested,

1260
01:40:40,020 --> 01:40:44,000
and we finally put this to bed and move forward.

1261
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:46,460
Do I have a second?

1262
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:00,020
Motion passes 4-1.

1263
01:41:03,580 --> 01:41:07,460
Okay, now we'll move on to public comment on non-agenda items.

1264
01:41:07,820 --> 01:41:11,900
This is your opportunity to make any comments relating to non-agenda items.

1265
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:17,740
Please submit a speaker card to the city clerk, raise your digital hand now, or dial nine

1266
01:41:17,740 --> 01:41:20,400
on the telephone to indicate you wish to speak.

1267
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:24,920
When it is your turn to speak, please begin by stating your name and city of residence

1268
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:26,880
and limit your comments to five minutes.

1269
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:32,720
I will call on members of the public, participating in person first, followed by remote participants.

1270
01:41:33,060 --> 01:41:34,600
City Clerk, do we have any speakers?

1271
01:41:37,010 --> 01:41:41,030
Yes, the first speaker I have is Craig Ferris, followed by Linda Criner.

1272
01:41:41,470 --> 01:41:41,850
I'm

1273
01:41:57,370 --> 01:42:00,710
Craig Ferris, I've been excited to hear it in the city of Paris since 1970.

1274
01:42:00,790 --> 01:42:08,560
One mayor, council, city staff, those in attendance, thank you very much.

1275
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:11,440
Interesting.

1276
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:20,900
As to, I wanted to speak about a development that we all know about that I've been attending.

1277
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:27,380
But actually, I wanted to speak about the favorability of Costco as to some things that

1278
01:42:27,380 --> 01:42:27,920
I found out.

1279
01:42:28,420 --> 01:42:34,120
So before I was in the logistics transportation industry, warehousing industry, I was in

1280
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:39,640
super market industry. Super market industry operates on an extremely lean

1281
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:45,480
profit margin. What I found out is Costco, which started from Saul Price, and

1282
01:42:45,480 --> 01:42:51,300
it was Price Club, which then became Costco, their profitability of their

1283
01:42:51,300 --> 01:42:59,080
merchandise sold is very marginally slim, which brings benefits to the

1284
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:04,720
residents to those that shop at Costco for the food items or for the items that are there.

1285
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:08,640
There are profit margins range between no greater than 3% and

1286
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:12,700
hover closer to 1.5% profit margin for a business.

1287
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:19,700
Where Costco does make a tremendous amount of profit is off of their membership.

1288
01:43:20,500 --> 01:43:22,260
That is just pure profit.

1289
01:43:22,820 --> 01:43:26,300
That's where they make a lot of money to make it be.

1290
01:43:26,300 --> 01:43:29,320
a gold standard of what that retailer is.

1291
01:43:30,020 --> 01:43:32,500
And I just wanted to share that fact.

1292
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:39,760
I still to this day and I know that I've reached out

1293
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:43,340
to some individuals and I've attended the meeting

1294
01:43:43,340 --> 01:43:47,460
that was the residential meeting and I'm really thankful

1295
01:43:47,460 --> 01:43:50,240
for those residents that conducted that meeting.

1296
01:43:50,380 --> 01:43:53,720
I'm really thankful for Jason coming to that meeting

1297
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:59,900
and giving his input where it was appropriate as well.

1298
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:04,900
I just witnessed learned and sometimes you don't speak

1299
01:44:04,900 --> 01:44:08,660
and you learn a lot more compared to either running through the forest

1300
01:44:08,660 --> 01:44:11,380
you don't see the animals or when you speak you don't hear.

1301
01:44:12,340 --> 01:44:17,160
So really I just wanted to hear where I know I'm in favor.

1302
01:44:17,500 --> 01:44:20,700
I wanted to learn more about those that were against.

1303
01:44:20,700 --> 01:44:35,700
I don't still understand, I just don't want it near me because I want to learn how I can learn from those that are against so we can make this the best ability for our city.

1304
01:44:36,420 --> 01:44:42,920
I personally think this is an opportunity that is not before the council yet and I know I'm speaking prematurely.

1305
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:48,100
It's not even, I believe, fully at the Planning Commission, that's just my opinion.

1306
01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:59,980
But I want to learn from those that oppose, because I think it's a benchmark decision of

1307
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:29,700
What is going to be coming up very similar to, right here at the Bremel was, back in the 70s. And so, my time, I just wanted to speak favorably, I wanted to thank all the city council, all of you. And for a resident, what I do like to see is I understand being on a board. And if you oppose something, a voice willing to

1308
01:45:29,700 --> 01:45:58,600
to make a statement to oppose it, but I also want to see our council working for the benefit of all of us as residents, and I'm thank you for your time, I thank you for that, I thank you for your openness of sharing each one of you, your opinions, but the same sense, I want to make sure that that is ultimately in the end for the benefit of all of us that are residents here.

1309
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:01,040
There's my two cents, thank you.

1310
01:46:04,540 --> 01:46:08,720
The next register speaker I have is Linda Criner, followed by Crystal Eichner.

1311
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:20,700
Hi, I'm Linda Criner, I'm a long time resident of East Brea.

1312
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:32,520
And I have two big issues with the addition of the largest Costco in California with 40 gas pumps to my neighborhood, which is East Brea.

1313
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:40,400
There are many, but the bottom line of the problem is the additional traffic that is definitely

1314
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:42,980
going to come to Kramer and Birch.

1315
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:51,320
Google AI estimates that there will be 10 to 14,000 additional cars caused by just the

1316
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:59,020
Costco being there in addition to the 20 to 30,000 cars that are going through Kramer and

1317
01:46:59,020 --> 01:47:00,160
Birch at this time.

1318
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:07,620
During the Christmas lights event, which is a quality of life thing for the city of Braia,

1319
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:17,400
we had 50,000 cars going through the neighborhood which brought joy to probably 50,000 families.

1320
01:47:17,620 --> 01:47:19,000
How many people would that be?

1321
01:47:20,560 --> 01:47:23,580
In addition, there's going to be traffic on Imperial.

1322
01:47:23,580 --> 01:47:31,100
in Imperial and Kramer already has 67,500 cars going through that intersection every day.

1323
01:47:32,200 --> 01:47:39,500
Smart walls and smart signals are not going to decrease this log jam of cars.

1324
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:44,560
This is going to affect the quality of life for the people who live in East Brea.

1325
01:47:46,100 --> 01:47:51,160
My question with this is the environmental impacts that are going to address

1326
01:47:51,160 --> 01:48:00,400
The huge traffic issue at the east end of town, which is the biggest residential area of Brea.

1327
01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:07,890
It's a residential area, not where Costco's are typically set up.

1328
01:48:09,790 --> 01:48:17,550
And are the AIR findlings going to be public, and are they going to be open to question by the residents?

1329
01:48:18,630 --> 01:48:25,570
Another big concern I have is the tax sharing agreement that has been made with the City of

1330
01:48:25,570 --> 01:48:30,830
Braia and Dwight Manley, the developer who owns the current Beckman campus.

1331
01:48:31,990 --> 01:48:39,510
Why does the city give the majority of the sales tax to revenue to the developer for 30

1332
01:48:39,510 --> 01:48:41,870
of the 50 years of the contract?

1333
01:48:41,870 --> 01:48:49,270
fact, it isn't until year 30 that the share is 50% for the city and 50% for Mr. Manley.

1334
01:48:50,390 --> 01:48:57,090
He begins by getting 95% of the first two years of the contract and it gradually increases

1335
01:48:57,090 --> 01:49:03,890
by 5% to a year until the year 30 with the sharing going to 50% for each.

1336
01:49:04,770 --> 01:49:11,570
Perhaps he paid too much for the property initially, but he will get a huge income when

1337
01:49:11,570 --> 01:49:15,550
Costco begins leasing the land for Mr. Manley.

1338
01:49:15,930 --> 01:49:17,470
This is the cost of doing business.

1339
01:49:18,530 --> 01:49:24,750
Why does the city feel it is obligated to help Mr. Manley at the beginning of the agreement

1340
01:49:24,750 --> 01:49:26,610
before the Costco is even built?

1341
01:49:27,690 --> 01:49:29,510
Isn't that the cost of doing business?

1342
01:49:30,550 --> 01:49:33,370
What would happen if the Costco wasn't built?

1343
01:49:34,470 --> 01:49:37,530
It could be homes that would fit in with a huge

1344
01:49:37,530 --> 01:49:40,710
residential area that is East Brea.

1345
01:49:41,730 --> 01:49:45,490
Then perhaps Mrs. Manley would sell the land to a residential

1346
01:49:45,490 --> 01:49:46,290
developer.

1347
01:49:47,490 --> 01:49:50,890
If Mr. Manley doesn't get the Costco on the land,

1348
01:49:51,250 --> 01:49:53,570
does the senior center disappear?

1349
01:49:55,190 --> 01:49:57,850
His support of the Costco seems to be baked

1350
01:49:57,850 --> 01:50:01,070
end to the existence of the senior center.

1351
01:50:02,110 --> 01:50:07,470
These are two very important issues for the East Brea residents and I appreciate being

1352
01:50:07,470 --> 01:50:08,570
able to speak tonight.

1353
01:50:08,990 --> 01:50:09,390
Thank you.

1354
01:50:13,740 --> 01:50:16,440
Next I have Crystal Eignner, followed by Deborah Dauer.

1355
01:50:17,460 --> 01:50:20,080
Good evening, Mara and the City Council members.

1356
01:50:20,340 --> 01:50:23,800
My name is Crystal Eignner and I've been a resident of Brea for over 40 years.

1357
01:50:24,420 --> 01:50:29,760
So I'm here tonight to, as a resident of Country Hills the States and the neighborhood that's

1358
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:31,040
going to be right next to Costco.

1359
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:33,420
Recently, our neighborhood came together.

1360
01:50:33,540 --> 01:50:36,560
I was spoken about before for a peaceful community gathering

1361
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:38,440
to talk about the Costco development

1362
01:50:38,440 --> 01:50:40,920
and to better understand what is happening

1363
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:44,840
and how it will affect our homes and streets in our community.

1364
01:50:45,580 --> 01:50:48,180
Jason Kilbrew was very kind enough to attend

1365
01:50:48,180 --> 01:50:49,720
and help answer a lot of questions

1366
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:52,060
and explain what he could about the project.

1367
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:52,840
Thank you, Jason.

1368
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:55,780
I appreciate his willingness to speak with us,

1369
01:50:55,820 --> 01:50:58,700
but what I walked away with was very discouraging feeling

1370
01:50:58,700 --> 01:51:05,540
that there's essentially nothing our neighborhood can do to have a meaningful voice in what is happening around our homes.

1371
01:51:06,820 --> 01:51:12,000
We can discuss ways to make this less painful but little chance of stopping it.

1372
01:51:12,540 --> 01:51:16,740
We are deeply concerned about the impact this development will have on our neighborhood,

1373
01:51:16,980 --> 01:51:21,960
including increased traffic congestion on our streets, freeway on and off ramps,

1374
01:51:21,960 --> 01:51:26,640
and the overall disruption to the businesses and residents surrounding the project.

1375
01:51:26,640 --> 01:51:36,240
What is especially in trouble to me first is that our community has had to organize our own gathering to simply understand what was happening.

1376
01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:46,720
Residents should not have to come together on their own to find answers about major developments that could have such a significant impact on our daily lives.

1377
01:51:47,300 --> 01:51:54,180
Second, it turns out that the most pivotal decision that you made was approving the tax sharing agreement in December,

1378
01:51:54,180 --> 01:51:58,280
which at this time you said it was just one small step.

1379
01:51:58,860 --> 01:52:01,640
It was not the substance of the meeting

1380
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:04,360
felt designed to railroad this project.

1381
01:52:05,140 --> 01:52:07,760
I was very also disappointed to hear comments

1382
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:10,940
suggesting that this is simply the way things

1383
01:52:10,940 --> 01:52:13,460
have always been done and that there was no fault

1384
01:52:13,460 --> 01:52:15,320
in how the process was handled.

1385
01:52:15,860 --> 01:52:19,140
With respect, I don't believe that should be the standard

1386
01:52:19,140 --> 01:52:21,560
that we accept for the future of Brea.

1387
01:52:21,560 --> 01:52:21,640
Yeah.

1388
01:52:22,980 --> 01:52:29,080
Even when a decision may be very far along, residents deserve clear information, honest

1389
01:52:29,080 --> 01:52:36,700
communication, and an opportunity to be heard, transparency should not be something that

1390
01:52:36,700 --> 01:52:40,480
the community has to ask for after the fact.

1391
01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:47,360
I sincerely hope that the future of Brea City Council will include a commitment to restoring

1392
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:52,420
honoring trust with our residents and making communication a two way street.

1393
01:52:52,920 --> 01:53:07,020
I love the city of Braya that we have and we may not always agree on the outcome, but we should always be able to expect honesty, transparency, respect, and a meaningful opportunity to participate in this process.

1394
01:53:07,500 --> 01:53:08,580
Thank you for listening.

1395
01:53:11,650 --> 01:53:15,470
The next register speaker I have is Deborah Dauer, followed by Roseanne Scott.

1396
01:53:15,470 --> 01:53:16,530
Good

1397
01:53:19,570 --> 01:53:32,730
evening mayor, City Council and staff. I'm Deborah Dawa, a Braia resident since 2002. I have a question on the topic of additional traffic and public safety burden regarding the proposed Costco project.

1398
01:53:33,210 --> 01:53:43,130
Has an independent and I underscore the word independent. Analysis determined the additional cost to Braia for police, traffic enforcement, fire and road maintenance.

1399
01:53:45,310 --> 01:53:51,850
If yes, what is the name of the independent firm that conducted the analysis and when did they do so?

1400
01:53:52,270 --> 01:53:57,690
If not, why was it an independent analysis done before the approval of a 50-year agreement?

1401
01:53:57,990 --> 01:53:58,350
Thank you.

1402
01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:04,760
The next slide, Mr. Speaker.

1403
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:07,700
I have is Roseanne Scott, followed by Felix Road.

1404
01:54:12,360 --> 01:54:12,560
Okay.

1405
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:13,820
Felix Road.

1406
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:16,940
After Felix, I have Carrie Wines.

1407
01:54:22,720 --> 01:54:23,820
Good evening, Mayor.

1408
01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:25,240
Good evening, Council.

1409
01:54:25,240 --> 01:54:33,580
So, I really appreciated the lifeline conversation you had earlier about a $200,000 outstanding bill.

1410
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:40,660
I would have loved if you had the same intense conversation about the revenue sharing agreement on Costco

1411
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:45,540
that at least was not the case in the public eye, maybe behind doors.

1412
01:54:46,260 --> 01:54:48,940
Was that being said? That's what I want to talk about today.

1413
01:54:49,340 --> 01:54:54,520
I'm here to talk about the 50-year economic development agreement for Costco at Birch and Kramer.

1414
01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:58,720
Up front, I want to say I'm not against the Costco in Brea.

1415
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:00,260
I think it would have a lot of benefit.

1416
01:55:00,500 --> 01:55:03,920
However, what worries me is how to deal with structured

1417
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:07,560
and the risk that it puts Brea's tax payer on.

1418
01:55:08,440 --> 01:55:11,220
Start with the math, it doesn't actually add up.

1419
01:55:11,820 --> 01:55:14,340
The staff projected about 50 million for the city

1420
01:55:14,340 --> 01:55:16,320
and 83 million for the developer,

1421
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:21,880
based on 267 million a year in taxable sales.

1422
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:28,080
States. If you break dials down under state law, groceries and fresh foods are roughly

1423
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:35,400
half of what Costco actually sells, and those are actually exempt from sales tax. So to

1424
01:55:35,400 --> 01:55:41,900
hit that taxable number, you would have to create a sales revenue of north of $400 million.

1425
01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:47,720
That is well above any typical Costco in California.

1426
01:55:48,340 --> 01:55:52,500
So, now, how does the model actually close the gap?

1427
01:55:52,820 --> 01:55:57,160
Okay, the model does close the gap with a gas station of 40 pumps.

1428
01:55:57,740 --> 01:56:01,460
Unlike groceries, as you know, fuel is fully taxable,

1429
01:56:01,840 --> 01:56:06,740
and is expected to bring in in this particular agreement nearly a million dollars.

1430
01:56:07,240 --> 01:56:11,480
Now, was that disclosed? No, I did my own math, but that's the only way

1431
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:15,440
you can get to the overall tax numbers that were stated.

1432
01:56:15,440 --> 01:56:20,220
So, which brings me to the traffic problem at the last

1433
01:56:20,220 --> 01:56:25,640
community meeting that Jason was kind enough to attend, we were told the 40 pumps were

1434
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:29,320
simply away to cut wait times.

1435
01:56:29,900 --> 01:56:34,380
The city own numbers that were provided tell a different story.

1436
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:39,360
For the numbers to work, that station has to function as a regional draw.

1437
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:48,260
Moving roughly 20 million gallons a year and pushing 5 to 7,000 extra car trips in addition

1438
01:56:48,260 --> 01:56:54,060
to what a Costco actually pulls through the Burj and Kramer intersection every day.

1439
01:56:54,680 --> 01:57:01,620
The city can't claim its managing traffic which we did at the community meeting, while in

1440
01:57:01,620 --> 01:57:06,180
its own model it depends on that traffic to actually happening.

1441
01:57:06,180 --> 01:57:34,740
Okay. Now stretch that over 50 years. California is moving towards electric vehicles. And under state law, electricity sold in a D.V. Charger is actually not generating sales tax or is exempt from local sales tax as pumps get replaced by chargers, which will happen. It's a function of when not if a few tax revenue will go down to a level.

1442
01:57:34,740 --> 01:57:38,940
and eventually level off at a very low level.

1443
01:57:39,460 --> 01:57:44,560
It could eventually disappear if Costco at those facilities

1444
01:57:44,560 --> 01:57:48,160
decides to replace the food pumps in, say, 20 years,

1445
01:57:48,460 --> 01:57:49,600
completely with charges.

1446
01:57:50,780 --> 01:57:55,240
And remember, the point of the gas station is that Costco is driving

1447
01:57:55,240 --> 01:57:57,480
membership to their stores and visit.

1448
01:57:57,940 --> 01:58:00,860
Fuel is not a margin item for them.

1449
01:58:00,860 --> 01:58:15,520
The membership and the loyalty of those members is and so if they find a different strategy to pull these members into the Costco, we have a significant revenue gaps on our taxes.

1450
01:58:16,660 --> 01:58:28,860
So here's what concerns me the most under the rebate scheduled developer keeps to 100% of the fuel tax in the year when fuel is actually still at peak.

1451
01:58:28,860 --> 01:58:35,300
Brea's share doesn't reach 60% percent of the tax until much later in the agreement

1452
01:58:35,300 --> 01:58:41,960
by which point the tax base may not actually exist in the form it does today.

1453
01:58:42,500 --> 01:58:48,080
The developer gets the money now while it's worse the most and the city inherits what's

1454
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:48,960
left later.

1455
01:58:49,500 --> 01:58:57,300
Brea also carries the risk that cost goes underlying lease likely to be initially 20 to 30 years with

1456
01:58:57,300 --> 01:59:03,820
renewal options may not outlast the agreement because the extensions are optional, they are

1457
01:59:03,820 --> 01:59:09,500
not required. A more typical agreement would have included a hard-dollar cap tied to

1458
01:59:09,500 --> 01:59:16,960
verifiable infrastructure costs, a term closer to 20 years matching the real lease and protections

1459
01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:25,060
against the EV transition that may occur. I'd like four questions to be entered into the

1460
01:59:25,060 --> 01:59:29,620
The public record was written, answered, requested from staff and the city attorney.

1461
01:59:30,300 --> 01:59:30,460
One.

1462
01:59:31,200 --> 01:59:33,560
What dollar amounted percentage of the two hundred and a half?

1463
01:59:33,560 --> 01:59:35,440
I'm sorry, but your time is up.

1464
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:39,280
Could you present your questions to the city clerk and she can pass them on?

1465
01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:40,080
Okay.

1466
01:59:40,320 --> 01:59:41,380
Thank you very much.

1467
01:59:44,510 --> 01:59:46,890
Next, I have Carrie Wines, followed by Mark Strong.

1468
01:59:55,770 --> 01:59:56,710
Not used to this.

1469
01:59:57,230 --> 01:59:59,750
I've not been at the new format.

1470
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:07,140
New and approved format, this is nice. My name is Carrie Wines. I've been here in a couple

1471
02:00:07,140 --> 02:00:13,360
different various speaking moments, but this time I'm going to get a little philosophical.

1472
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:18,340
So I wore my jammies to kind of dress up for the occasion.

1473
02:00:19,420 --> 02:00:24,860
Tonight I want to talk about progress. Progress is not measured by how many or what kind

1474
02:00:24,860 --> 02:00:29,520
of buildings we can put on a map. Progress is measured by whether the people who already

1475
02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:33,260
they live there can still recognize the community they call home.

1476
02:00:33,960 --> 02:00:37,720
Whether they can positively impact their lives and their children's lives,

1477
02:00:38,260 --> 02:00:41,860
what they can afford to celebrate, how many children they can afford to care for,

1478
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:46,560
what food they can purchase, what college they send their kids to.

1479
02:00:47,060 --> 02:00:51,000
I say this because I think many of the various citizens have nothing against growth.

1480
02:00:51,640 --> 02:00:56,120
We have nothing against investment, but many citizens have a problem when development

1481
02:00:56,120 --> 02:00:58,320
and it happens faster than the infrastructure

1482
02:00:58,740 --> 02:01:01,700
when decisions are made without meaningful public input

1483
02:01:02,200 --> 02:01:04,720
and when residents feel that their voices are treated

1484
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:07,940
as an inconvenience rather than as the foundation

1485
02:01:07,940 --> 02:01:08,900
of local government.

1486
02:01:09,540 --> 02:01:12,540
And let me be clear, government belongs to the people,

1487
02:01:12,860 --> 02:01:15,440
not to developers, not to politicians,

1488
02:01:16,340 --> 02:01:18,980
not to anyone who believes a campaign contribution,

1489
02:01:19,220 --> 02:01:22,860
a private meeting, or a powerful connection should matter more

1490
02:01:22,860 --> 02:01:25,760
more than the concerns of ordinary residents.

1491
02:01:26,440 --> 02:01:31,480
If there has been misconduct conflicts of interest or decisions made behind closed stores,

1492
02:01:31,660 --> 02:01:32,620
then we deserve answers.

1493
02:01:33,340 --> 02:01:34,740
Do not fear transparency.

1494
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:37,340
We are not asking for special treatment.

1495
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:38,900
We are asking for accountability.

1496
02:01:39,560 --> 02:01:43,120
We are asking all to play by the rules.

1497
02:01:43,740 --> 02:01:47,600
We are asking for open meetings on its disclosure, responsible planning and

1498
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:51,380
a development process that puts residents not profits at the center.

1499
02:01:51,380 --> 02:01:54,080
because this is not simply about one project.

1500
02:01:54,620 --> 02:01:58,380
It is about what kind of city we want to leave to the people who come after us.

1501
02:01:58,780 --> 02:02:01,580
We can choose growth without sacrificing our character.

1502
02:02:02,140 --> 02:02:04,820
We can choose investment without surrendering our voice.

1503
02:02:05,500 --> 02:02:08,720
And we can choose a city government that remembers one simple truth.

1504
02:02:09,260 --> 02:02:11,680
Brea citizens are not obstacles to progress.

1505
02:02:12,380 --> 02:02:15,380
The people of Brea are the reason our local government exists.

1506
02:02:16,380 --> 02:02:18,160
We should stand together for our city.

1507
02:02:18,500 --> 02:02:19,400
I love Brea.

1508
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:36,180
I've been here since 1984, that's a long time to put in for, you know, living in one city, I love it, but we need transparency, we need accountability, and for a future where development serves the community rather than the community serving development.

1509
02:02:36,740 --> 02:02:37,040
Thank you.

1510
02:02:37,040 --> 02:02:38,060
Next

1511
02:02:41,450 --> 02:02:45,010
speaker, I have is Mark Strom, followed by Nancy Clifton Hawkins.

1512
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:55,500
Mark Strom, spokesperson for Bayer for All.

1513
02:02:56,000 --> 02:03:02,580
Tonight I want to examine seven myths behind the Costco saga, misused to obscure core issues.

1514
02:03:03,340 --> 02:03:08,920
Myth one, Costco worked with the property owner Hines and couldn't reach a deal only the developer could.

1515
02:03:09,660 --> 02:03:10,860
This defies logic.

1516
02:03:11,420 --> 02:03:14,500
The reasonable conclusion is that Costco knew a subsidy was needed.

1517
02:03:14,500 --> 02:03:18,600
rather than work or pray it directly, it was easier and less visible to let the developer

1518
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:24,820
do it. He has in your perfect batting average getting what he wants, right? If anyone

1519
02:03:24,820 --> 02:03:30,460
deserves vanks, it's not the developer. It's Braia for granting a large subsidy. Myth

1520
02:03:30,460 --> 02:03:36,760
too. If the developer wants Costco its own for it and he can do it. Yes, but zoning rights

1521
02:03:36,760 --> 02:03:42,800
do not create subsidy rights. Subsidies are discretionary. At the recent community meeting, the developer

1522
02:03:42,800 --> 02:03:46,860
answered a question about why not move Costco to the South property with a parking garage.

1523
02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:53,060
Quote. It would cost $35,000 per parking space and Costco has maxed out on what they're willing to pay

1524
02:03:53,580 --> 02:04:00,600
so it would make the taxuring math worse. Really? That's upside down. Make Costco and the developers

1525
02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:06,560
math worse. They both seem to be doing quite well. Meanwhile, the city faces major budget issues

1526
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:07,540
in the next several years.

1527
02:04:08,540 --> 02:04:11,280
Again, zoning rights do not create subsidy rights.

1528
02:04:12,200 --> 02:04:14,960
Myth three, prayer for all doesn't care about revenue,

1529
02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:16,440
completely false.

1530
02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:19,360
Sadly, we're the only party that looked at year

1531
02:04:19,360 --> 02:04:20,680
by year general fund impact.

1532
02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:23,840
Prayer for all inform the council that an all-housing project

1533
02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:26,300
produces superior all-in general fund revenue

1534
02:04:26,300 --> 02:04:27,080
for a quarter century.

1535
02:04:27,880 --> 02:04:29,500
Prayer for all also inform the council

1536
02:04:29,500 --> 02:04:31,580
that the deal digs about a $20 million budget hole

1537
02:04:31,580 --> 02:04:33,880
in the first 10 years compared to Batman today.

1538
02:04:33,880 --> 02:04:37,920
Okay, staff have to date and said nothing, the council never asked.

1539
02:04:38,620 --> 02:04:44,380
Why bother when the decision is pre-wired, and certainly don't muddy the public hearing packet with contradictory information?

1540
02:04:45,900 --> 02:04:49,540
Myth 4, the property costs to the developer $140 million.

1541
02:04:50,140 --> 02:04:56,480
No, the Costco portion costs $77 million, and the Lamar housing portion costs $63 million.

1542
02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:01,840
$77 million is exactly the tax subsidy the developer receives in constant dollars.

1543
02:05:01,840 --> 02:05:04,840
In other words, pay a pay for the Costco property.

1544
02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:08,520
The developer pays carrying costs, transaction costs, and land prep.

1545
02:05:09,180 --> 02:05:11,700
Carrying costs is minimized with his front-loaded subsidy.

1546
02:05:13,060 --> 02:05:13,540
Myth 5.

1547
02:05:14,260 --> 02:05:17,840
The math on the developer's return is transparent, incorrect.

1548
02:05:18,380 --> 02:05:22,260
We don't know most key variables in his return, including his proceeds from Lara housing,

1549
02:05:22,740 --> 02:05:28,480
Costco lease terms, loan terms, and potential compensation from Costco for his mental man role.

1550
02:05:28,480 --> 02:05:31,960
and no one evaluated how his risk-adjusted tax sharing value compares to

1551
02:05:31,960 --> 02:05:37,200
Brae is. We don't know a lot of things. While it's mostly confidential, we should

1552
02:05:37,200 --> 02:05:41,280
not accept his blanket statements. We do know he's watched as we turn far more

1553
02:05:41,280 --> 02:05:46,680
closely than the city watchards. Miss six. The developer is taking all the risk.

1554
02:05:47,260 --> 02:05:50,520
Huh? You already have 77 million of front-loaded tax sharing, the

1555
02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:53,020
Costco lease, and the one-on-our deal, and he's not the builder.

1556
02:05:53,760 --> 02:05:57,520
Regardless, aren't developers always supposed to bear the project risk, not

1557
02:05:57,520 --> 02:05:57,900
cities.

1558
02:05:59,580 --> 02:06:01,200
Brea's risk hour is very high.

1559
02:06:01,540 --> 02:06:06,140
The vast majority of our revenues is decades from now after the initial Costco leased expires.

1560
02:06:07,160 --> 02:06:09,640
Our risk adjusted returns a fraction of the rose projection.

1561
02:06:10,680 --> 02:06:16,660
On this 7th, the December hearing, approving tax sharing was one small step, and simply

1562
02:06:16,660 --> 02:06:17,980
allow Costco as an option.

1563
02:06:19,060 --> 02:06:22,120
That's complete hogwash, and it's a wide barrier for all organized.

1564
02:06:23,080 --> 02:06:24,680
The tax sharing enabled everything else.

1565
02:06:24,680 --> 02:06:29,720
Without the subsidy, the city would be working with a developer right now on a mixed-use housing project.

1566
02:06:30,380 --> 02:06:34,980
The city can seal the Costco plan for months, waited until the last minute, and

1567
02:06:34,980 --> 02:06:40,160
jammed the economic underpinning through in one night, despite please, without pause for review.

1568
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:48,020
In the recent community meeting, nine months overdue, Mr. Kilibur explained extremely low odds of stopping the project in the EIR stage.

1569
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:53,700
That's how British City Hall operates when it thinks it knows best.

1570
02:06:53,700 --> 02:06:57,820
Yes, it prewires the decision then does the minimum required by California law.

1571
02:06:58,400 --> 02:07:02,820
In this case, citizens were effectively denied our rights to meaningful participation.

1572
02:07:03,800 --> 02:07:07,660
By the way, imagine how much better it would be for our general fund,

1573
02:07:08,080 --> 02:07:14,860
had the city obtained an independent financial assessment, including alternatives before your December vote, and then negotiated more.

1574
02:07:15,780 --> 02:07:19,420
And imagine if the city had genuinely engaged the public prior to the vote.

1575
02:07:19,420 --> 02:07:23,240
You could have had it all, a casco, a far better deal for

1576
02:07:23,240 --> 02:07:24,920
Braia and residents who feel respected.

1577
02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:28,260
In closing, the casco matters have become the three ring

1578
02:07:28,260 --> 02:07:28,600
circus.

1579
02:07:29,240 --> 02:07:30,020
It's a city creation.

1580
02:07:30,240 --> 02:07:32,480
Never forget the center ring is city hall.

1581
02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:36,140
There are side shows that the main event is city conduct.

1582
02:07:37,100 --> 02:07:39,220
A majority of the council seems to be holding their breath

1583
02:07:39,220 --> 02:07:40,900
hoping this circus leaves town soon.

1584
02:07:41,460 --> 02:07:41,960
It won't.

1585
02:07:42,200 --> 02:07:43,180
It's the city's circus.

1586
02:07:43,700 --> 02:07:45,780
And we're not leaving even if the project is approved.

1587
02:07:45,780 --> 02:07:48,640
more is coming and truth eventually prevails.

1588
02:07:53,340 --> 02:07:57,000
The next speaker I have is Nancy Clifton Hawkins followed by Gail Nita.

1589
02:08:01,500 --> 02:08:02,380
Good evening mayor.

1590
02:08:03,560 --> 02:08:07,200
City council members, city staff and members of the public.

1591
02:08:07,980 --> 02:08:11,760
I'm Nancy Clifton Hawkins, a 30 plus year resident at the City of Brea.

1592
02:08:12,900 --> 02:08:16,660
At the July City Council meeting I stood before you and asked for something very simple.

1593
02:08:17,320 --> 02:08:22,120
An opportunity for the residents who will be most directly affected by this proposed project

1594
02:08:22,120 --> 02:08:26,020
to have a meaningful conversation with the city, Costco, and the property owner,

1595
02:08:26,500 --> 02:08:29,020
and that request came from us, the residents.

1596
02:08:29,800 --> 02:08:33,900
We believe that if a project of this magnitude was being proposed in our neighborhood,

1597
02:08:34,540 --> 02:08:39,060
the people who live here deserve an opportunity to come together, ask questions,

1598
02:08:39,500 --> 02:08:43,880
hear directly from those involved, and have a meaningful conversation about what is being proposed.

1599
02:08:44,680 --> 02:08:46,000
So we organized the meeting.

1600
02:08:46,860 --> 02:08:50,180
We invited the city, the city council,

1601
02:08:50,180 --> 02:08:56,680
the property owner and to our neighborhood and on August 8th approximately 150 residents

1602
02:08:56,680 --> 02:09:01,620
showed up. They came early on a Saturday morning because they care about where they live

1603
02:09:01,620 --> 02:09:06,920
and what happens in our community. I also want to say something about how that morning unfolded

1604
02:09:06,920 --> 02:09:11,800
because I think it says a great deal about our community. Some people may have expected

1605
02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:18,840
shouting or confrontation. That isn't what happened. People listened. They asked questions.

1606
02:09:18,840 --> 02:09:24,960
They express concerns, they disagreed respectfully, and they stay engaged.

1607
02:09:25,440 --> 02:09:26,840
That is our community.

1608
02:09:27,520 --> 02:09:31,720
We are a civil, engaged community, not a group looking for a fight.

1609
02:09:32,800 --> 02:09:36,060
We organize this meeting because we want a dialogue, not confrontation.

1610
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:42,440
We want an information, not assumptions, and we want an opportunity for the residents to be heard.

1611
02:09:43,400 --> 02:09:47,280
I want to recognize Jason Kilibrew, who came on that Saturday.

1612
02:09:47,460 --> 02:09:48,440
Thank you, Jason, for coming.

1613
02:09:49,610 --> 02:09:50,620
He came prepared.

1614
02:09:51,200 --> 02:09:54,460
He provided information and answered our resident's questions.

1615
02:09:55,580 --> 02:10:00,040
I also want to recognize Dwight Manley, the property owner, who participated in the conversation

1616
02:10:00,510 --> 02:10:04,940
and helped fill in information where he could, and he even offered residence tours of the

1617
02:10:04,940 --> 02:10:05,300
property.

1618
02:10:06,690 --> 02:10:11,140
Their participation was important because it gave residents an opportunity to hear directly

1619
02:10:11,140 --> 02:10:16,820
from the people involved, rather than relying on speculation or secondhand information.

1620
02:10:17,760 --> 02:10:21,720
And I'd be doing it to service to my neighbors if I stood here tonight and suggested that

1621
02:10:21,720 --> 02:10:23,220
one meeting solved the problem.

1622
02:10:23,880 --> 02:10:24,760
It didn't.

1623
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:31,400
What we heard were questions about traffic, neighborhood impacts, public safety, property

1624
02:10:31,400 --> 02:10:37,020
values, the environmental review process, transparency, and whether this project ultimately benefits

1625
02:10:37,020 --> 02:10:38,040
the city of Brea.

1626
02:10:38,040 --> 02:10:41,820
We also heard questions about the process itself.

1627
02:10:42,500 --> 02:10:43,940
How are decisions being made?

1628
02:10:44,320 --> 02:10:45,720
How will information be shared?

1629
02:10:46,160 --> 02:10:50,260
And will public input actually have an opportunity to influence what happens next?

1630
02:10:51,180 --> 02:10:54,040
These aren't simply questions about the project.

1631
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:56,940
These are questions about trust.

1632
02:10:59,450 --> 02:11:01,750
And trust isn't built through a project sign.

1633
02:11:02,470 --> 02:11:04,190
Trust isn't built through a single meeting.

1634
02:11:04,190 --> 02:11:10,570
trust is built through consistent communication, transparency, and unwillingness to keep showing up.

1635
02:11:11,990 --> 02:11:19,190
Of the approximately 150 residents who attended, 60 voluntarily provided their names and email

1636
02:11:19,190 --> 02:11:24,350
addresses because they want to stay informed, remain engaged in this ongoing conversation.

1637
02:11:24,950 --> 02:11:31,390
That is civic engagement. People are raising their hands and saying, keep us informed. We want to

1638
02:11:31,390 --> 02:11:38,390
understand. We want to participate. So tonight I'm asking the city to build on what we, the residents,

1639
02:11:38,710 --> 02:11:45,350
started. We ask for regular project updates as major milestones are reached. We ask that

1640
02:11:45,350 --> 02:11:50,750
information about timelines, EIR milestones, public meetings, and opportunities for community input

1641
02:11:50,750 --> 02:11:56,290
be communicated proactively and consistently. And we ask that the city consider ongoing communication

1642
02:11:56,290 --> 02:12:01,330
channels, whether through email updates, a project web page, a periodic community briefing

1643
02:12:01,330 --> 02:12:05,710
so the residents can stay as formed as the project unfolds.

1644
02:12:05,710 --> 02:12:09,810
Because trust is earned, one conversation at a time.

1645
02:12:11,050 --> 02:12:13,510
On August 8th, we started that conversation.

1646
02:12:14,190 --> 02:12:15,850
We brought our neighbors together.

1647
02:12:16,750 --> 02:12:19,550
We showed up, Jason showed up.

1648
02:12:20,410 --> 02:12:26,270
We listened, we asked questions, and we demonstrated that a community can be deeper

1649
02:12:26,270 --> 02:12:30,570
concerned about a proposed project without being hostile or divisive.

1650
02:12:31,510 --> 02:12:33,690
We can disagree without being disagreeable.

1651
02:12:34,210 --> 02:12:36,830
We can ask hard questions without attacking people.

1652
02:12:37,470 --> 02:12:41,790
We can advocate for our neighborhoods while respecting the people on the other side of

1653
02:12:41,790 --> 02:12:42,270
the table.

1654
02:12:43,210 --> 02:12:46,630
And as a 30-year resident of Brea, that is the Brea I remember.

1655
02:12:47,450 --> 02:12:51,450
A Brea where neighbors came together, listened to one another, and worked through difficult

1656
02:12:51,450 --> 02:12:52,950
issues as a community.

1657
02:12:52,950 --> 02:12:56,610
So let's get back to being Braia. Thank you.

1658
02:12:59,260 --> 02:13:01,160
And thank you for putting that together.

1659
02:13:02,160 --> 02:13:06,160
The next register speaker I have is Gail Nida, followed by Melissa Strong.

1660
02:13:12,570 --> 02:13:18,030
Good evening everyone. I have been before you three times

1661
02:13:18,030 --> 02:13:23,070
and my questions and concerns are the same.

1662
02:13:23,970 --> 02:13:29,350
It's the busy traffic on Birch and Kramer, presently.

1663
02:13:29,350 --> 02:13:39,190
With Costco coming in, it will be busy all day long and into the evening.

1664
02:13:40,550 --> 02:13:50,850
Decisions were made in haste with no public input by your constituents and business owners

1665
02:13:50,850 --> 02:13:56,310
who will be impacted the most by this Costco deal.

1666
02:13:56,310 --> 02:14:07,470
I don't understand why this was not done. This is the predicament we are in today.

1667
02:14:08,950 --> 02:14:19,370
So number one, help me understand why there were no public hearings on this

1668
02:14:19,370 --> 02:14:29,310
matter. As you are finding out this evening, that not everyone is happy. There are lots

1669
02:14:29,310 --> 02:14:33,790
of people that have issues with Costco coming in.

1670
02:14:35,130 --> 02:14:46,130
Number two, in addition, I would appreciate hearing from each council member who voted

1671
02:14:46,130 --> 02:14:57,470
to approve this deal as to your reasons for your yes vote. Thank you for your consideration.

1672
02:15:01,550 --> 02:15:04,050
The next registered speaker I have is Melissa Strom.

1673
02:15:13,440 --> 02:15:39,380
Hi, I'm Melissa Strom. I am a longtime resident of Brayeye grew up here, lived here for three decades now. I'm here on behalf of Bray for all. And I've been on the sidelines for much of this Costco conversation because there are plenty of people to speak as you can hear. But I felt compelled to speak on one key point because I'm concerned there might be an inclination to write off or dismiss this crowd's concerns because there may be

1674
02:15:39,380 --> 02:15:41,820
NIMBs, or they don't understand business as usual.

1675
02:15:42,720 --> 02:15:45,200
Some of you might be holding your breath until they move on.

1676
02:15:45,640 --> 02:15:48,080
I think if anything, tonight is proof they have some persistence.

1677
02:15:49,320 --> 02:15:51,540
I've been in commercial real estate for my whole career,

1678
02:15:51,680 --> 02:15:54,280
predominantly serving as a public relations representative

1679
02:15:54,280 --> 02:15:57,280
for developers, commercial real estate law firms,

1680
02:15:57,480 --> 02:15:58,500
financing institutions.

1681
02:15:59,540 --> 02:16:02,840
So my work has spanned commercial, residential real estate,

1682
02:16:02,980 --> 02:16:06,060
everything from affordable housing up to big mixed use mega projects.

1683
02:16:06,060 --> 02:16:12,760
So in that time, I've dealt a lot with nimbis, and I can tell you that this crowd, they're

1684
02:16:12,760 --> 02:16:14,740
not nimbis, so don't write them off as such.

1685
02:16:15,220 --> 02:16:20,120
The traditional, not-in-my-back yard crowd, irrationally, opposes change wherever it is near

1686
02:16:20,120 --> 02:16:25,460
their home just because they don't want change, originally and most commonly it's used for

1687
02:16:25,460 --> 02:16:30,000
those opposing things like drug rehabilitation, affordable housing, because they're afraid

1688
02:16:30,000 --> 02:16:35,880
it'll increase crime, or change the landscape of a neighborhood negatively, and oftentimes

1689
02:16:35,880 --> 02:16:40,240
If not, always those can actually be elayed by some actual cold hard data.

1690
02:16:40,780 --> 02:16:47,880
If anything, this group are entirely rational and they, as you can hear, are bringing some data back concerns that they've expressed a number of times now.

1691
02:16:48,560 --> 02:16:57,980
And for what it's worth to my recollection, they were not being down City Hall's doors when the Birch Hill apartments were constructed, which are workforce housing across the street from the site in question.

1692
02:16:57,980 --> 02:17:05,760
So furthermore, care for something going on near your home seems like the best time to engage the city.

1693
02:17:06,440 --> 02:17:10,960
It's human nature, whether you're a resident who doesn't want to look at a billboard on the freeway near your house,

1694
02:17:10,960 --> 02:17:18,400
or if you're a commercial retail owner that's threatened by some other shops coming in that might be threatening your commercial properties.

1695
02:17:19,360 --> 02:17:25,700
I think all this being said, it's been made clear that the real reason that they're sticking around is because city conduct has been

1696
02:17:25,700 --> 02:17:31,240
study revealed to be a major item of concern. As some have even said tonight, they're actually

1697
02:17:31,240 --> 02:17:35,860
maybe not opposed to a Costco under the right conditions. So the Costco plan is really secondary

1698
02:17:35,860 --> 02:17:41,260
to holding the city accountable in this incident, which brings me to my next point. You may also

1699
02:17:41,260 --> 02:17:46,400
dismiss these folks because you believe that every event in this Costco matter is completely fine,

1700
02:17:46,600 --> 02:17:52,700
totally normal business is usual, nothing untoward. If that's the case, then my question is why have

1701
02:17:52,700 --> 02:17:57,400
leaders from institutions that have led my industry for years raised an eyebrow publicly

1702
02:17:57,400 --> 02:18:02,840
about this deal. With all the evidence presented thus far, it seems unwise to take at face

1703
02:18:02,840 --> 02:18:07,680
value internal claims that critics have merely misconstrued things or taking things out

1704
02:18:07,680 --> 02:18:12,380
of context. If all is truly well, what is stopping us from what has been requested a few times,

1705
02:18:12,380 --> 02:18:18,200
which is an independent process and ethics assessment. Assessment aside, best practices for

1706
02:18:18,200 --> 02:18:22,980
this development whether you have nimbis or not would dictate a robust community engagement plan

1707
02:18:22,980 --> 02:18:28,320
which I've been a part of a number of times thus far residents have only been invited to participate

1708
02:18:28,320 --> 02:18:33,160
on the sidelines and meaningful conversations have been set up by residents themselves as you've heard

1709
02:18:34,460 --> 02:18:39,040
I know there's an upcoming air hour process and as was stated in the community organized meeting

1710
02:18:39,040 --> 02:18:43,980
on the 8th none of that can really change the tide in terms of if Costco is happening we understand

1711
02:18:43,980 --> 02:18:50,120
But I really recommend that you don't miss the opportunity at this stage to do right by your constituents and

1712
02:18:50,120 --> 02:18:55,060
ensure the path forward is one of independently verified transparency and proper processes.

1713
02:18:55,460 --> 02:19:01,040
I recommend you hold yourselves to the highest standard because doing the right thing when no one is watching is your character.

1714
02:19:01,360 --> 02:19:03,660
And doing the right thing when everyone is watching is your legacy.

1715
02:19:04,220 --> 02:19:08,680
And if you can deliver on both, that's a great campaign message for those you on the ballot in November.

1716
02:19:09,260 --> 02:19:11,760
So aside from that, I look forward to seeing you at the scoping meeting.

1717
02:19:11,760 --> 02:19:12,360
thank you.

1718
02:19:16,980 --> 02:19:22,300
That concludes all of our registered speakers and person and it looks like we do not have any online speakers.

1719
02:19:23,000 --> 02:19:27,920
Okay, thank you. Jason, did you have anything you wanted to say?

1720
02:19:29,540 --> 02:19:36,900
Yes, thank you, Mayor. Just a couple of points of clarification, but I want to just give a huge shout out in Kudos.

1721
02:19:36,900 --> 02:19:43,960
Those may be a handful of times that I see in the community actually take the onus on

1722
02:19:44,500 --> 02:19:45,200
our timeline.

1723
02:19:46,000 --> 02:19:51,120
And so as I shared in other public communication as well as this meeting, there's not a lot

1724
02:19:51,120 --> 02:19:56,200
of information that I have at this moment given that the application was submitted in March

1725
02:19:56,200 --> 02:19:59,580
and just for the record it's still deemed incomplete at this point.

1726
02:19:59,580 --> 02:20:21,420
And so a lot of moving things, but instead of taking, you know, it's not, you know, the city's response because we don't have the information, you know, they took, they took control of that. And I really, really come in on Nancy for that because that is something that, like I said, I've only seen happen a handful of times.

1727
02:20:21,900 --> 02:20:26,260
But what it did though is it challenged me, it challenged my staff.

1728
02:20:26,820 --> 02:20:28,900
So maybe look at some things differently.

1729
02:20:29,160 --> 02:20:35,040
So we're already talking about some creative things that we can do moving forward, Costco

1730
02:20:35,040 --> 02:20:35,420
aside.

1731
02:20:36,260 --> 02:20:43,900
So maybe looking at ways that we can have, I'll just small pitch and normalist is going

1732
02:20:43,900 --> 02:20:49,420
to the amount of me right now, but we took a look at a variety of different cities, cities

1733
02:20:49,420 --> 02:20:53,080
that we admire some of the things that they do.

1734
02:20:53,900 --> 02:20:58,120
You may have seen on social media, this particular city, I'm not going to name them by name,

1735
02:20:58,720 --> 02:21:06,160
but they hosted a get to know your community development team, get to know the big projects

1736
02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:08,720
that are going on and they hosted it at the AMC theater.

1737
02:21:09,440 --> 02:21:14,300
And so those are the types of things where what I appreciated was, you know, and I will

1738
02:21:14,300 --> 02:21:16,400
always do this to come to where they are.

1739
02:21:17,020 --> 02:21:21,660
But also, we don't always have to have these meetings in such a formal setting.

1740
02:21:21,660 --> 02:21:26,200
And so, again, I appreciate the challenge, and there's more to come from that.

1741
02:21:27,240 --> 02:21:30,660
One couple of things I want to say, so like I said, the application is incomplete.

1742
02:21:31,400 --> 02:21:34,460
And so I understand traffic, right?

1743
02:21:34,720 --> 02:21:41,960
There's not been a project in my two decades of doing this that there hasn't been some level of concern related to traffic.

1744
02:21:42,740 --> 02:21:50,520
The EIR will address that traffic, it will take into account the analysis for not only just the project itself.

1745
02:21:50,520 --> 02:21:53,480
But what is going around on the east side of town?

1746
02:21:53,700 --> 02:21:58,120
It will take into account those intersections, it will take into account all of those different things.

1747
02:21:58,620 --> 02:22:03,480
And if there's deficiencies, those deficiencies at that point would have to be addressed.

1748
02:22:04,040 --> 02:22:12,380
And that would be in turn, documented in the EIR, the draft EIR, let me say that, the draft EIR.

1749
02:22:12,720 --> 02:22:15,740
And there was a comment about, was there going to be meaningful engagement.

1750
02:22:15,740 --> 02:22:38,620
And I explain this at the community meeting that a draft VIR will just be the document the first kind of opportunity to review that document was definitely not the last and we put it out for a 45 day period to have that engagement to give people an ample amount of time of reading the document, providing us comments and we will respond back to those comments.

1751
02:22:39,800 --> 02:22:50,340
The other thing I also wanted to talk about was related to, you know, Jason said there's a near chance that this won't be approved, it's not exactly what I said.

1752
02:22:50,960 --> 02:23:01,560
What I shared at the community meeting is in my two decades of experience, the ways that, you know, a project is stopped is based off of voluntary withdrawal by the applicant.

1753
02:23:01,560 --> 02:23:30,860
based off of a city council which in most cases is the ultimate decision authorities denial and then in a legal setting a judge basically to making a termination to deny the project what I shared was in my two decades of doing that I have never seen any of those superior decision authorities making a claim or making a judgment or

1754
02:23:30,860 --> 02:23:38,880
Or a decision that had prejudice that said that particular person loses all their property rights and they can't move forward again.

1755
02:23:39,160 --> 02:23:50,500
So even in the case of the sale of a project is denied, there is still an opportunity if it's not denied with prejudice to continue and apply another application,

1756
02:23:50,500 --> 02:23:53,340
submit another application, go through that entire process again.

1757
02:23:53,900 --> 02:23:59,860
And for that, I don't have a crystal ball to determine if someone gives up or someone continues.

1758
02:23:59,860 --> 02:24:02,500
So, that's what I said, so I just want to make that clarification.

1759
02:24:03,580 --> 02:24:10,480
But other than that, I look forward, we are still engaging in EIR consultant to go through

1760
02:24:10,480 --> 02:24:15,220
and prepare the EIR in assistance with our community development and planning staff,

1761
02:24:15,760 --> 02:24:21,780
and that is working through its process, and we should have some news to share very shortly

1762
02:24:21,780 --> 02:24:25,960
about what the next step is, and then eventually that will be that scope meeting.

1763
02:24:25,960 --> 02:24:31,360
Okay. Thank you very much, Jason. I want to thank each and every one of you for coming

1764
02:24:31,360 --> 02:24:35,860
here and speaking to us tonight. I know it's been a long meeting, but I've asked you

1765
02:24:35,860 --> 02:24:39,400
if you could please bear with me. We only have a couple little things and then we're ending

1766
02:24:39,400 --> 02:24:44,460
with a tribute tonight to a very special prayer resident. So I hope you can stay for that.

1767
02:24:46,240 --> 02:24:49,060
Are there any city manager or city attorney announcements?

1768
02:24:50,940 --> 02:24:51,280
None.

1769
02:24:52,260 --> 02:24:55,640
Okay. Any council requests or announcements?

1770
02:24:57,440 --> 02:25:02,880
No, okay. At this time my colleagues and I would like to close tonight's meeting in

1771
02:25:02,880 --> 02:25:09,060
honor of Miko Downey, longtime Brea resident and senior center volunteer who sadly passed

1772
02:25:09,060 --> 02:25:16,220
away last week. Miko was 92 years young and when I say 92 years young she was a young soul.

1773
02:25:16,220 --> 02:25:26,880
She lived in Brea the past 24 years, she volunteered at the Brea Senior Center for 15 years where she served as the Center's nutrition program site council member.

1774
02:25:27,260 --> 02:25:36,340
She was also a regular writer of the senior center shuttle and relied on it for the past decade to ensure she could stay connected to her many friends at the center.

1775
02:25:36,780 --> 02:25:41,480
We ask that you keep her loved ones and your thoughts and prayers during this difficult time.

1776
02:25:41,480 --> 02:25:44,900
With that, I would like to adjourn, I'll get to you, Marty.

1777
02:25:45,300 --> 02:25:51,340
I would like to adjourn our meeting in appreciation of Mico and her long dedication to our community.

1778
02:25:51,800 --> 02:25:56,020
And I know Marty wants to say a few words because he had quite the relationship with her.

1779
02:25:57,880 --> 02:26:01,360
From the very beginning when I started going to visit the senior center,

1780
02:26:01,900 --> 02:26:04,480
Mico was one of those individuals that would seek me out.

1781
02:26:05,060 --> 02:26:08,440
If you ever needed a hug, Mico was the person to go see.

1782
02:26:08,440 --> 02:26:12,620
even when she was in her walker and she needed help standing up she would make

1783
02:26:12,620 --> 02:26:16,460
sure she was able to stand up, give that hug and she didn't want to let go.

1784
02:26:17,140 --> 02:26:20,860
You know, Miko was one of those individuals that would remember things I can

1785
02:26:20,860 --> 02:26:25,640
remember. I had my granddaughter when she was just a baby at one of the country

1786
02:26:25,640 --> 02:26:29,880
fairs and Miko was there and took a picture with me and her and Miko kept that

1787
02:26:29,880 --> 02:26:33,560
picture and she would show me that picture every now and then when I would go

1788
02:26:33,560 --> 02:26:37,620
in. So she would remember and I would tell her how old my granddaughter is now

1789
02:26:37,620 --> 02:26:38,840
and she would just be amazed.

1790
02:26:39,540 --> 02:26:44,760
Miko was special and I know that she's going to be missed by anybody and

1791
02:26:44,760 --> 02:26:50,160
everybody that ever had an opportunity to talk to her for at least two or three minutes.

1792
02:26:50,580 --> 02:26:52,300
You couldn't help but fall in love with this lady.

1793
02:26:52,740 --> 02:26:54,120
All right, so I agree with you.

1794
02:26:54,220 --> 02:26:55,040
Yeah, you're right.

1795
02:26:55,360 --> 02:26:56,440
She was really special.

1796
02:26:57,040 --> 02:27:00,460
Okay, thank you for staying and with that, this meeting is adjourned.

1797
02:27:01,700 --> 02:27:02,180
Steve.

1798
02:27:02,180 --> 02:27:02,700
See you.

1799
02:27:02,860 --> 02:27:03,240
See you.