1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:19,320 Good evening. Welcome to the Zoning Board of Appeals. August 10th meeting. As always, everybody, please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance if you're able. 2 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:35,039 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 3 00:00:35,039 --> 00:00:38,560 All right. Secretary Marlin, can we get a roll call, please? 4 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,679 Yes, please. President Kozol. 5 00:00:40,679 --> 00:00:42,439 Here. 6 00:00:42,439 --> 00:00:53,000 I was going to say trustee. I saw my old hat. Mr. Poulet here. Mr. Pollack here. Miss Hall here. Miss Mallon here. 7 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,399 Right. I get an approval for the agenda. 8 00:00:58,399 --> 00:01:01,390 I'll make that motion to approve the agenda I support. 9 00:01:01,390 --> 00:01:06,909 Okay. All in favor? Aye aye aye. Approval of the minutes. 10 00:01:06,909 --> 00:01:08,989 So moved. 11 00:01:08,989 --> 00:01:10,109 I'll second. 12 00:01:10,109 --> 00:01:15,030 Thank you. All in favor? Aye aye aye. 13 00:01:15,030 --> 00:01:29,069 Correspondence. Any correspondence? No. Correspondence. Correspondence. All right. Old business for six, five. 422 and 6545 for Van Dyke. This is from the July meeting. Welcome back. Thank you very much for coming back. 14 00:01:29,069 --> 00:02:19,810 Uh, Michael Torres, five eight, six five. Jacqueline Korte, Washington Township. So we're here because we we're revisited. We made some changes, offered some changes to the islands, uh, that are attractive and functional. Uh, we put some grasses in the middle, and we put the rocks around the surrounding perimeter. The grasses don't have to be cut. It's a natural look. It'll. It'll look good with the entire surrounding out there, which is kind of natural with the wetlands and the conservative. Uh, I noticed when we left the last meeting, I did a drive in the township in 90% of every single commercial development has boulders. Rocks, right? As a matter of fact, I drove down the street and Kroger had a big pile in the middle of their parking lot. They were putting them in as we speak, and Meyers just replaced all their chipped bark with rocks. 15 00:02:19,810 --> 00:02:21,650 So everybody's just replacing it. 16 00:02:21,650 --> 00:03:13,000 I think just everyone that's in the commercial business that deals with this on a day to day basis, you know, we wanted to look good all the time. Nobody wants change because that's what it looks terrible. And for functionality. You know, we hear it from our landscapers. You know they can't get up to the islands because of the cars parked next to them. They don't want to damage a car. These mower decks are large. They don't want to come after hours to do it. They charge you more. It gets expensive for maintenance. So just in looking at what's there today, you know, it just sets the tone for why it's like that. It's because anyone that deals with property maintenance. You know, we want functionality. We want to look good. So doing what I did to add the grass and having the stone, I think it's pleasing. Aesthetically pleasing. And at the same time, there's nothing to be cut so we don't have to worry about cutting them, but we still water them for the trees that are there. It'll look. It'll look good. 17 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:37,960 I think last last month we had it was a 2 to 2 vote. And this is to replace instead of doing fields. Instead they wanted to put or you wanted to put, you wanted to put in the field stone. And we're at, uh, impasse on it. So you came back with another idea, which I think is a very helpful thing. It's beautiful. I think it'll look really nice. I saw the plans that you set up there in the packet. I think the maintenance is much better. 18 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:55,379 It looks actually more attractive, I think, because you got taller grasses that you can see and they stay there all the time. You're not worried about cutting the grass or killing the grass. So in spring you see a lot of yellow. Or when a when a plow goes by, he'll pick up the grass, pick up the heads and cut them. And it's just it's just it becomes a constant nightmare, right? 19 00:03:55,379 --> 00:03:57,860 When you look at what you're about to do. If we're able to do. 20 00:03:57,860 --> 00:04:01,539 No, it won't bother nobody. I think unless someone drives over the island. 21 00:04:01,539 --> 00:04:13,379 Yeah, the people might gravitate maybe to that. If that gets approved, that. Yeah, this might be an option. The Board of trustees might be able to look at it if it's viable. Um, to keep the the rural nature and. 22 00:04:13,379 --> 00:04:20,300 Yeah. I told Dana she can use my drawing for the new, you know, the new agenda when she changes the ordinance. 23 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:26,939 Well, since I was one of the no votes, I want to thank you for listening to us. And you absolutely have my support tonight going forward. 24 00:04:26,939 --> 00:04:28,819 Thank you. 25 00:04:28,819 --> 00:04:46,060 I think it's a good compromise that you did. Uh, and I just just wondering, because I drove by there a couple of times just to see it. And I see you're open right now as far as business. And then, um, is there irrigation system there in the islands right now? 26 00:04:46,060 --> 00:05:00,290 Yeah, we still have that because we have trees. So we still have to water the. But what we do is we, we water them with ringers So they're not pop ups that the plow can hit. So we put one down the middle and the end. They go around the base of the tree and it waters the tree. 27 00:05:00,290 --> 00:05:06,170 And then also, uh, what? The stone. What kind of matting are you putting down there? 28 00:05:06,170 --> 00:05:10,050 Because they put a weed barrier. It's a commercial weed. 29 00:05:10,050 --> 00:05:26,930 Barrier, you know, because if, uh, sometimes when people put the stone or those rocks in there, weeds, weeds pop out pretty quick. So you need to have a have a good matting. This way you won't have to have any maintenance for us. Yeah. With the spray can. Well the weeds. 30 00:05:26,930 --> 00:05:48,769 Yeah. Our maintenance guys will spray every year because the problem is, even with barrier, over time, any type of of a mulch relief that falls, it creates dirt, it creates a spot for a seed to grow, and weeds will grow. But they spray. So as long as they spray and they can keep it killed, because we hire them to pull weeds and to do everything. So if they don't maintain it by spraying, they're going to be pulling more weeds. 31 00:05:48,769 --> 00:06:03,990 I have a question for for Dan or Kayla. Now he's proposing to have wood chips in there. Now that that. Is that acceptable or not acceptable in ordinance right now? 32 00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:15,430 Um, so in the ordinance, mulch is also a prohibited material in those islands. Dana, I believe, did follow up with the fire department to make sure that they were comfortable with that, if you want to speak to that. 33 00:06:15,430 --> 00:06:29,550 Yeah, I did add that both of those reviews from both wraps in here, because I know there was concern expressed, depending on the location of that. I just wanted to make sure they were comfortable with it, and both of them had responded back with no objection. 34 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:40,189 So for the sake of the record, though, if you do make a motion, you should make sure to include that it's for the mulch and stone, um, versus just on. 35 00:06:40,189 --> 00:06:50,740 And I want suggestion to there's another building that's going to be built pretty soon. Make sure you check with staff. So hopefully you won't have to come back here. I mean. 36 00:06:50,740 --> 00:06:52,019 Yeah, we'll file the same. 37 00:06:52,019 --> 00:06:55,220 Yes, if we're going to ask for the same. Same thing. You're going to have to come back. 38 00:06:55,220 --> 00:06:56,019 Absolutely. 39 00:06:56,019 --> 00:06:56,939 Okay. 40 00:06:56,939 --> 00:07:01,259 Yeah. It's included with the included both properties. So this will cover both. 41 00:07:01,259 --> 00:07:04,579 Okay. I thought it was just for the parking for the larger building. 42 00:07:04,579 --> 00:07:13,699 No, it's all the way. He highlighted all the the different areas throughout the city would be. 43 00:07:13,699 --> 00:07:19,579 We had opened up public comments again. Do we have to reopen public comments for this? 44 00:07:19,579 --> 00:07:20,459 We do. 45 00:07:20,459 --> 00:07:30,779 We do. Okay. We want to see if anybody from the public wants to speak on this. After watching the the meeting last month and has just decided that they want to join us for this meeting. 46 00:07:30,779 --> 00:07:36,139 I think there's anybody. Mr. Henrich, would you like to talk about your neighbor's property right now. 47 00:07:36,139 --> 00:07:51,250 As you make your motion? I'm sure you're already planning to do so, but make sure that especially that last item. Intent of the ordinance based on the discussion. Last meeting. Make sure you know how this change design changes the finding on that intent of ordinance. 48 00:07:51,250 --> 00:07:54,089 Okay. 49 00:07:54,089 --> 00:07:56,290 We open and close the public hearing. I'm sorry. 50 00:07:56,290 --> 00:08:08,810 We did okay so fast. Open public made the motion to open. I supported the motion to close. I support it, okay. I think that's how it went. Mr. Boulet. Are you good with that? Okay. 51 00:08:08,810 --> 00:08:10,730 You said both of you. 52 00:08:10,730 --> 00:08:11,170 Yeah. 53 00:08:11,170 --> 00:08:11,610 Okay. 54 00:08:11,610 --> 00:08:13,410 Yes. We tech team got rid of it fast. 55 00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:16,089 Okay. 56 00:08:16,089 --> 00:08:18,370 That worked for you. 57 00:08:18,370 --> 00:08:28,730 All right, what I'm doing is I'm just going to open up the approval or denial. 58 00:08:28,730 --> 00:08:29,329 Since I wasn't. 59 00:08:29,329 --> 00:08:31,370 Able to print everything off to them online. 60 00:08:31,370 --> 00:08:36,730 Now I'm learning it. I think I've got it. 61 00:08:36,730 --> 00:08:40,370 I'm assuming there's no one from the public that wants to speak. 62 00:08:40,370 --> 00:08:42,490 I'm going to close the hearing. 63 00:08:42,490 --> 00:08:42,769 Oh we. 64 00:08:42,769 --> 00:08:48,429 Did. 65 00:08:48,429 --> 00:09:08,830 All right then. Um, if there's no further comment, I'm going to make a motion to approve the request made for both 65422 and 65454. Van Dijk parcel number 240411300034 66 00:09:08,830 --> 00:09:15,509 and 240411300035 67 00:09:15,509 --> 00:12:02,549 for variance from the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance Article 5.0 site standards, section 5.12 off street parking and loading requirements, parking lot and frontage landscaping requirements. Interior parking lot landscaping and allow for the alternative alternate landscaping plan which includes a mix of tall wild grass plants, wood mulch trees and fieldstone to be installed within the parking lot. Curbed islands. Ordinance requires that sod entries are planted within the curbed parking lot islands. This decision was based on criteria as outlined in the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance, Section 7.9. Echo Zoning Board of Appeals variance Review Procedures, number one. Strict enforcement of the zoning ordinance would cause practical difficulty or unnecessary hardship to the property owner. I do do the number of islands created and small size of them. This could be an unnecessary hardship. Furthermore, the revised landscape plan provides a reasonable alternative for the parking islands while maintaining landscaped areas with living plants. The revised design addresses the practical maintenance concerns presented by the applicant without eliminating landscaping from the islands. The conditions that make the variance necessary are unique to the property. The criteria is met based on the particular configuration, location and maintenance circumstances of this parking islands on the site. The approval is based on the specific conditions presented for this property and the revised plan. Due to the large number of islands in the small scope of them. It helps break up the concrete. I think it's a very nice design. The conditions that make the variance necessary were not created by the property owner. The need for relief relates to the physical configuration and ongoing maintenance conditions with the parking lots. The revised plan responds to those conditions while retaining trees and incorporating some living landscaping. The variance does not confer any special privileges. The specific facts of this property and revise the landscape plan does not establish a general exemption from the township's landscaping requirements for other properties, and more properties may want to look at what you do as an example. Therefore, this variance will not be contrary to the spirit and intent of the zoning ordinance because of the revised plan and that it continues to provide landscape parking lot islands and incorporates trees now wild grass mulch along with the fieldstone with the fine borders and the combination of living and non-living landscape materials, preserves the visual aesthetic function of the islands while providing the requested relief. And I believe this is in the spirit of the township's ordinance. 68 00:12:02,549 --> 00:12:04,750 I'll support that. 69 00:12:04,750 --> 00:12:05,509 Can we get a roll call? 70 00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:06,230 Yes, please. 71 00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:15,070 Mr. Kozel? Yes. Miss Holl? Yes. Yes, Mr. Pollack. Yes. Mr. 72 00:12:15,070 --> 00:12:15,950 Thank you very much. Thank you. 73 00:12:15,950 --> 00:12:16,509 Appreciate your. 74 00:12:16,509 --> 00:12:16,750 Time. 75 00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:20,710 Thank you. 76 00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:25,389 Okay. 77 00:12:25,389 --> 00:13:12,860 We got a new business. 64200 Van Dyke. We have three separate motions. We're going to have to. We can look at them together, but we have to treat them each individually as we go through them, for each one, for a motion. But the first one is for Hendricks Chevrolet Zoning Ordinance. Article 5.0 site standards. Section 5.20 sign regulations. Golf allowed signs, thank you and Dimensional Standards three allowed permanent signs. Table 5.20 golf three allowed permanent sign types and standards for nonresidential zoning districts. Monument sign the number permitted. So we have three motions here three different requests. And I know you're going to speak on probably a lot of them as we go through this. So for the first one you can speak on, however, how we'd like. 78 00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:13,620 What. 79 00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:17,419 We're going to be looking at specifically right now. The number of signs is what we're looking at for. 80 00:13:17,419 --> 00:13:17,740 The first. 81 00:13:17,740 --> 00:13:22,500 One. So we're calling this like the extra monument one. Correct. 82 00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:22,860 All right. 83 00:13:22,860 --> 00:13:24,620 So speak on the number of signs first. 84 00:13:24,620 --> 00:13:36,500 You can. Yeah. You can speak on anything. But we're looking at we have to take them in each in order to enter. So I'm sure what you say in the first time is going to relate probably to the rest of them a little bit to. 85 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:39,240 You know, take the lead and I'll do color commentary. 86 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:40,360 Sure. 87 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,440 Just please state your name and address. 88 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,519 Russ McCoy. 89 00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:44,919 Just kind of. 90 00:13:44,919 --> 00:13:46,440 Tell us what 264. 91 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:47,759 200. Van Dyck. 92 00:13:47,759 --> 00:13:52,080 Thank you. Daughter. Yes. Right. Same commercial address. 93 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:52,799 Okay. 94 00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:57,840 And just tell us a little bit about what you're doing, what you're planning on renovating and what your overall. 95 00:13:57,840 --> 00:15:30,669 Sure. So currently in the variance review that was done. You can see the the site plan there. And we currently have the four signs um at the dealership. We have multiple businesses within that business but all run within one overall rooftop. But separately we have three different buildings. So why we're looking for the variance is to keep some of our current directional signage while updating what we currently have. Um, you'll see that first sign is our certified service, and that is designated for our service customers to come in that specific, um, driveway that we have. We have the three different driveways. Um, so that is important for our customers. We have about 100, 150 service customers a day, and without that, it could cause a bit of havoc amongst the, uh, the parking lot. The other signs we're looking to update, um, both structurally and physically, the large main sign. And here I'll go within some of the other variances. Um, the large main sign is currently 36ft high and a about 121ft². So we're looking to bring that down. Um, and you'll see that on the second page with the proposed signage, the third sign that. 96 00:15:30,669 --> 00:15:34,309 We let's go back on the number because you guys want to talk about the number a little bit. 97 00:15:34,309 --> 00:15:35,409 You can talk about. 98 00:15:35,409 --> 00:16:45,960 Stay on that. Marissa's probably light on the number of cars that come in that. That would be the south entrance. That's the main drag. So if we get cars that miss that one, it's going to create a little bit of havoc in the rest of the place. And we know that internally, you folks, you know, aren't there day in and day out. So, um, I realize it's a we've got more than our fair share of signs. We understand that, uh, that little ones are fairly important to us. Uh, for that reason, I'm not sure we can make it any smaller. Um, I'm not sure they have a smaller one, but, uh, kind of that arrow getting people in that is, is a key. Because we have our we got our service entrance right there. Body shops in the next building. Uh, the trucks come in there, the semis. Um, it's an active joint. We want them all going in the right direction, or our body shop business will go up a little bit, and we're already busy enough. So, um, just we appreciate your consideration on that. We know that we're stretching you out. Um, and, uh, we'll save anything else on talking about those other signs and their size for the next conversation. 99 00:16:45,960 --> 00:17:29,079 I think we need to talk about them, though, as a trifecta. Sure. Because it makes sense that I'm able to see easily how two of your three are for sure. No problem. The one, though I can't find the evidence of the five to approve for the first one for the extra monument, and especially then if we can give them the other two that they need, it might help. So would you have asked for all three? If you knew, you could win on the other two? What I'm trying to say is the first one, the extra monument side. If we're able to give you the other two because they fit in our check box. So the way we have to answer the questions of meeting the criteria. Would that be enough for you guys not to need that extra monument side? 100 00:17:29,079 --> 00:18:01,940 I understand that logic. You know that you can't. Can't tell you that it necessarily works for a business case. But I understand your point of view, too. You know, as we get into the as we get into what we're doing with the other signs, we're probably moving about 40 years in the right direction here because that big honkers from 1971 and it's, it's old and ugly and, uh, the new stuff that we lay out in a monument style is where we want to go, and we're happy to go there, but we're hoping for a little, a little extra consideration. 101 00:18:01,940 --> 00:18:09,339 In here a really long time. And we appreciate all that that you've done in the community and just sticking with it and being here. How many how many signs are currently there? 102 00:18:09,339 --> 00:18:10,059 Right now. 103 00:18:10,059 --> 00:18:10,380 There's. 104 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:10,579 Four. 105 00:18:10,579 --> 00:18:11,779 Currently there's currently. 106 00:18:11,779 --> 00:18:19,779 Four. 107 00:18:19,779 --> 00:19:03,970 Right. And I'm just thinking as an alternative, let's say you didn't upgrade your signs at all and you just left and you went home. Right now you would still have four signs there. Correct. Because the township is not asking you to tear one down right now. What you're looking right now is to renovate and and kind of bring what most people expect right now in the 21st century here, what what a car dealership looks like. And I can only imagine how competitive that is with the with the surrounding dealerships in the area. Um, but what I'm thinking is if you did nothing, you would still have four signs. And you're asking for four signs because you're asking for newer and updated ones. 108 00:19:03,970 --> 00:19:09,650 So we're just for clear. Yeah. Were you going to clarify the same thing for the one extra one? 109 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:10,089 Yeah. 110 00:19:10,089 --> 00:19:13,289 Go ahead for the certified for the service. 111 00:19:13,289 --> 00:19:14,329 That's what I'm looking at. 112 00:19:14,329 --> 00:19:18,369 That's not part of this. They're leaving that alone. And that was granted by variance. 113 00:19:18,369 --> 00:19:18,970 Correct. 114 00:19:18,970 --> 00:19:37,279 So the other three signs. So that's a separate you know they're not touching that one. So the other three signs are what we're or what you're looking at as far as if you're allowing them to still keep three, which is the one extra because we're taking that certified service out of that calculation. 115 00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:37,799 Correct. 116 00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:42,200 And going by what they would be permitted for monument. 117 00:19:42,200 --> 00:20:10,880 And is this are these larger signs, because one of them I saw is going to be a smaller sign. I know that's a separate issue, but what I'm trying to understand is right now they have an extra sign. There is one there right now. And other than and I know what we're looking at, I'm just saying right now they have four signs there. And if everything were to get approved, they would have still the four signs a different signs. But there wouldn't be five now. 118 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:11,640 There would be four. 119 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,200 It would be four. 120 00:20:12,200 --> 00:21:12,220 It would still be four. There'll be the four signs. They would just be updated signs. That's what I understand why they need the variance I understand that. I'm just trying to understand if if they did nothing. I know there was a little bit of go. We had a we were updating car wash. They needed a variance for a car wash that had been over on 27 Mile Road, and they were looking to do some things to modernize it, to bring it, to bring people safety into the community or keep that car wash going. Family run again. And, you know, we kind of thought about that, that that was a family run business that's been there forever. That's looking to modernize so that they can compete. So we granted that variance based off the fact that we want this business to succeed. We want businesses to succeed. We want legacy businesses that have been here in the township supporting the township and the community for a long time. And my thought is, you know, if we do nothing, we're going to have four signs. They're essentially. 121 00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:13,059 Yeah, they're not adding. 122 00:21:13,059 --> 00:21:15,819 More than just pushing before they have. 123 00:21:15,819 --> 00:21:17,539 Yeah, fixing three of them. 124 00:21:17,539 --> 00:21:21,339 If Kayla can give us the language to make it work. Of course, we always want to. 125 00:21:21,339 --> 00:21:21,579 Work. 126 00:21:21,579 --> 00:21:23,380 In the betterment of the businesses. 127 00:21:23,380 --> 00:21:40,650 I actually just have a question because it's not clear in the application materials, and I'm not finding it here either. So the service sign we're not touching, but the three other signs that are remaining, what are each of those signs intended to to represent? 128 00:21:40,650 --> 00:22:02,609 I have a used car sign. You have your your main General Motors Chevy nameplate sign. And then we want to go with the digital. A digital would be our third sign which allows us to move around, promote whatever the service special or the used car special or what's going on in the community. 129 00:22:02,609 --> 00:22:06,130 And you don't want to attach the digital to the the Chevy sign. 130 00:22:06,130 --> 00:22:07,569 GM will not let you do that. 131 00:22:07,569 --> 00:22:14,930 Okay. Okay. I think that's some of the content that the DBA was looking for to understand why the number of signs is needed. 132 00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:18,650 Okay. 133 00:22:18,650 --> 00:22:21,569 General Motors will not let, uh. 134 00:22:21,569 --> 00:22:22,529 The franchisees. 135 00:22:22,529 --> 00:22:42,950 Uh, Cine division or something. They've got their rules. So I got to try and please them and then got to fit in with you guys, and, uh. Yeah, you can't do a digital like I came up with like, ten years ago. Let us put the digital on the bottom and put your gym up on top and probably be an easier sale to get you guys to go for that, but they won't play on that. 136 00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:49,390 Okay. But this could help us then wouldn't that represent a hardship for him if he's not allowed to do it any other way with the franchise laws? 137 00:22:49,390 --> 00:23:01,950 Yeah, and that's exactly kind of the information that was on there. An initial variance request way back in the 90s. Um, so that is really important for understanding why there's a unique situation here. 138 00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:04,269 Thanks for bringing that up. 139 00:23:04,269 --> 00:23:31,859 And so like I said, it's been here a long time. It's a lot of it's really when I look at it and I know nothing about a car dealership other than I bring my car there and magic things happen. I get it back and it works. And, um, but there's a lot of things, different departments that are like multiple businesses inside a conglomerate almost where you have alternate you need of your body shop, you have your sales shop, you have your used cars. You're bringing your kind of. 140 00:23:31,859 --> 00:23:35,660 Out money dealership that's running a body shop. 141 00:23:35,660 --> 00:24:09,579 Prior ordinance did have language in there, but based on the content, you know, neutral aspect of it. That's why we're we we can't showcase on the amount of businesses. We have to have it on quantity. And, you know, basically location size. 142 00:24:09,579 --> 00:24:17,859 No. I wish I would have went and thought to read that 1990 variance request. I would have been able to say right away this was a no brainer. 143 00:24:17,859 --> 00:24:47,329 If like a favor of upon heaven three signs. But I understand what the General Motors. And as I know at the service sign. You have to have that, of course. And then a pre-owned. But I was hoping that there will be a compromise and have one in between with the reader board. But what you're saying is with the General Motors, it's not going to work so. 144 00:24:47,329 --> 00:25:00,369 Well, not, you know, not the way that we want it to work, you know, or really the way you want it to work either. We could both agree on that digital and one of the other ones would something we'd shake our head to. But it's not going to happen. 145 00:25:00,369 --> 00:25:15,170 Well, to me it doesn't leave you with reasonable identification then. So for me it's an easy vote. Yes for the extra sign. If they can't use the sign that's dedicated to the franchise. 146 00:25:15,170 --> 00:25:19,349 Absolutely. And it's in a spot there. But, you know, we'll work through it one way or another. 147 00:25:19,349 --> 00:25:21,269 Yeah, absolutely. 148 00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:24,549 How long have you been in that spot? Over 50 years. Is it? 149 00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:25,430 How long have we got? 150 00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:28,789 How long have you been? Since 1971. 151 00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:30,670 I came out here in 10th grade with my dad. 152 00:25:30,670 --> 00:25:33,230 And 1971. 153 00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:56,430 Been a long time. So they've been. And we've grown a lot, too. You know, when we started, we had 35 employees, I think maybe of that. And now we're touching 100. So it's a different game. It's a very busy, busy place these days. 154 00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:57,390 To open up. 155 00:25:57,390 --> 00:26:09,829 Public hearing. So what we'll do is we'll make a motion to open up public hearing. I don't know if there'll be any here or anybody online that wants to correspond, but we'll give them the opportunity and then we'll close and see if we have any more questions and maybe have a little bit more discussion on the side. 156 00:26:09,829 --> 00:26:12,589 Okay. I'll make a motion to open public hearing. 157 00:26:12,589 --> 00:26:14,069 Thank you. 158 00:26:14,069 --> 00:26:16,579 All right. Thank you, Miss Hall. All in favor? 159 00:26:16,579 --> 00:26:17,500 Aye, aye. 160 00:26:17,500 --> 00:27:08,339 All right. So. Notice of public hearing by the charter township of Washington Township. Zoning board of appeals, Washington Township zoning ordinance, article 5.0 site standards. Section 5.20 sign regulations allowed. This is for allowed. Sign dimensional standards allowed. Permanent signs and table 5.20 golf three allowed permanent sign type standards. Non-residential districts. Monument signs. And this is what we're looking at specifically the number permitted. Purpose of the request one additional monument sign two are permitted based on the total road frontage exceeding 400ft. One sign to exceed. All right. So we're really just looking at that. The first point right now is that good numbers look after read all this. 161 00:27:08,339 --> 00:27:09,220 Yeah. 162 00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:14,019 Make it official. Um and the address is 64200 Vandyke. 163 00:27:14,019 --> 00:27:17,240 All right. 164 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,839 Anybody make a motion to close public hearing support? 165 00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:25,400 All right. All in favor? 166 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:41,000 There's a lot of support there. So I feel like this is all right. I guess for me, it's there's four signs there right now, and the business is a franchise that's been there since 1971. 167 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,799 Are you been here since 1971? I don't know if it was there. 168 00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:48,359 Well, yeah, they were. The dealership was here before we before I was. 169 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:49,240 Okay. 170 00:27:49,240 --> 00:28:12,079 So it's it's it's been a big piece of the township history and there's, there's four signs there. And if you wanted to, you could walk away and keep your four signs instead. We want the area to grow. Um, and this is where I look at the spirit and intent of the ordinance. Um, so if nobody has anything and no opposition, I'm going to make a motion. 171 00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:13,470 I support. 172 00:28:13,470 --> 00:28:18,029 Yeah. 173 00:28:18,029 --> 00:28:31,710 All right. So I'm going to make a motion to approve the request made for 64200. Van Dyke, parcel number 240414000003. 174 00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:37,710 And 240414100004 175 00:28:37,710 --> 00:31:51,390 for variance from the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance Article 5.0 site Standards, section 5.20 sign regulations. Golf allowed signs and dimensional standards. Three allowed permanent signs. Table 5.20 golf three allowed permanent sign types and standards for nonresidential zoning districts. Monument sign number permitted and allowed for one additional monument sign, bringing the total number for the site at three. Our ordinance allows for a maximum of two monument signs signs for the site based on the total frontage road frontage exceeding 400ft. This decision was based on the criteria outlined in the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance, section 7.9 echo. The Zoning Board of Appeals variance review procedure. Number one. Strict enforcement would cause practical difficulty or hardship as a large established automobile dealership containing multiple different operations, including vehicle sales, pre-owned vehicle sales, and service functions. These operations function as a distinct component within the larger dealership, and may reasonably require separate identification and customer direction. This is further shown because this is a franchise and science cannot be linked due to brand that this the number of signs is required so that you can establish exactly which vehicles are sold in your dealership. The condition that make the variance necessary unique to the property and do not apply to other properties. The property is large. Again, it's an established dealership consisting of two parcels and 550ft of frontage. When you look at it, says 400ft, allows anything over 400ft allows two. Now we're adding an extra 150ft of that. There's also extensive vehicle display area and multiple different businesses or brands inside your operation. Therefore, because it's a franchise that's been here a long time and they have rules that need to be abided by, I believe that this is a unique situation. Number three, the conditions and circumstances were not created by the owner. The applicant is not establishing an entire you're not making a new pattern of signs. The four signs already exist on the property for many years, and there has been previous variance relief that's been granted for the signage on the site. Um, the current request arises from replacement and modernization of the long standing sign. Yeah. You could you could otherwise just retain your current signage and not update anything. Therefore, the variance will not confer special privileges. The relief is based upon specific size, frontage, existing development, and multiple dealership functions that you have going on in the property. Therefore, I believe that this will not be contrary to the spirit and intent of the ordinance. The signs provide identification and direction for distinct operations on a large commercial site, which is consistent with the ordinance proposed of providing for business identification, 176 00:31:51,390 --> 00:31:56,509 and the business has been here and part of the community 177 00:31:56,509 --> 00:31:57,710 part of Washington. 178 00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:58,869 Romeo also. 179 00:31:58,869 --> 00:32:00,910 Support. 180 00:32:00,910 --> 00:32:03,789 Hey, can we get a roll call. 181 00:32:03,789 --> 00:32:05,150 Mister Council? 182 00:32:05,150 --> 00:32:05,430 Yes. 183 00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:06,109 To approve. 184 00:32:06,109 --> 00:32:06,410 Miss. 185 00:32:06,410 --> 00:32:07,730 Hall? Yes. 186 00:32:07,730 --> 00:32:09,769 Mr. 187 00:32:09,769 --> 00:32:11,730 Mr. 188 00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:14,369 Yes. To approve. 189 00:32:14,369 --> 00:32:18,049 Third of the way there. 190 00:32:18,049 --> 00:32:25,569 All right, let's take a look at the next one. 191 00:32:25,569 --> 00:33:04,200 So we're still looking at. This is still a sign. Still same property. 64200. Pandemic zoning ordinance article 5.0. Site standard section 5.20 sign regulations. Golf allowed signs and dimensional standards. Three allowed permanent signs. Table 5.20 golf three allowed permanent sign types and standards for nonresidential zoning. Districts, monument signs, dimensions, maximum sign area, and maximum height. So now what we're looking at is as the sign that you're looking at changing. And if I understand, I'll let you talk on it. But if I understand you're actually making it smaller than what it currently is. 192 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,160 Correct. 193 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:38,920 Hopefully this one's a little bit clearer here. So on this first page those are our that's our big massive high tech bright Chevrolet sign right now. That's 11 by 11. So we're looking to decrease that to this proposed. The actual sign will be this one this eight eight by eight eight and eight inches by eight. So if you calculate that out it's about a 41% decrease. While we're also bringing down the overall height of that sign. 194 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,279 So you're going to go for this P 137 to. 195 00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:46,680 M36P137. 196 00:33:46,680 --> 00:34:01,960 Goes to M 64. So the current one goes to the proposed one. And then the current two. We're looking to bring that site down that sign down lower to the ground. 197 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,220 Okay. 198 00:34:04,220 --> 00:34:24,780 We've talked about, of course, at a smaller but on the record, I want to talk about the fact that last month we had the medical facility. The medical facility wanted to double in size. So just before that gets out there, that we voted yes for Mr. Hyde and know around the medical facility, it's a big difference in numbers and this is a reduction of size. So I want that on the record. 199 00:34:24,780 --> 00:34:26,380 Sure. 200 00:34:26,380 --> 00:34:31,780 So it is 64ft² and 12ft in height. 201 00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:34,820 64ft² and 12ft in height. 202 00:34:34,820 --> 00:34:39,019 Uh, yes. Yeah. We're a little over your height restriction as well, I think. 203 00:34:39,019 --> 00:34:40,260 Okay. 204 00:34:40,260 --> 00:35:49,369 I think that was on there. You're showing. Sorry. I just want to make sure I'm clear on this attachment. So the proposed two is that corresponding to current sign number two? Yes. Okay. And you weren't initially requesting variances for that sign. Correct. You were just requesting it for this. The size and height for the height of. Right. Correct. 205 00:35:49,369 --> 00:35:52,449 So in spirit, they're getting more in line with our variance. 206 00:35:52,449 --> 00:35:52,969 You're coming. 207 00:35:52,969 --> 00:35:55,690 Closer. Yes, yes. 208 00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:57,329 That. 209 00:35:57,329 --> 00:36:06,239 Yeah. The digital would be great at spend whatever the township spec is or. 210 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,119 We'll buy accordingly. 211 00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:10,719 Should we open public comment on this one? 212 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,760 Then we could. 213 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,960 Any other questions? 214 00:36:17,960 --> 00:37:01,579 I think I'm I'm more in favor of staying. Same with our ordinance with 4040ft² minimum of a ten feet high, because I think we compromised with the number of signs and going with the 48ft² and the ten feet, that would be more in line with the current ones that have been approved, like a township hall. And there's Myers down the street, and I think it's level. It's high enough that people can look and see those signs. So I'm in favor of not giving like the like a variance at this time, unless you can give me another reason why you should have a larger sign. 215 00:37:01,579 --> 00:37:04,219 But this is a reduction of what they already have. 216 00:37:04,219 --> 00:37:38,659 I understand that, but most of most of the newer signs that are coming in. Now, whether they are complying with the 48ft² and then the ten feet of height, and I think we need we we need to be consistent. And I think, you know, the large signs are very large right now. And I think this would be a lot more in line with the direction of the township, like the wind, the direction are going with the different signs. 217 00:37:38,659 --> 00:37:51,980 So so you're you're marquee signage, you're going to be putting up, you say that's going to meet all the requirements. That's in addition to these other signs. The marquee you said you're going to put one up. That's a digital. 218 00:37:51,980 --> 00:37:53,739 That's the plan was to put. 219 00:37:53,739 --> 00:37:56,340 Where's that. Is that in addition to these other ones. 220 00:37:56,340 --> 00:38:02,250 That's to replace. So we would be removing this the really old pre-owned. 221 00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:03,690 Old one okay. That's going to go there. 222 00:38:03,690 --> 00:38:15,690 Yeah. That would. Well we would move our current. We have a car Bravo sign. That's our certified used move that in line with that building and put the the digital monument between the. 223 00:38:15,690 --> 00:38:16,489 The digital. 224 00:38:16,489 --> 00:38:16,889 Signs. 225 00:38:16,889 --> 00:38:29,849 The Digital Marquis will go there. Correct. This large one that you want to take out, you want to make it a little smaller, but it's still not going to meet the requirements of being what it should be. That's what we're asking. 226 00:38:29,849 --> 00:38:54,449 Yeah, yeah. That one that would be over. Um, eight by eight would be 64ft. Um, it does say in the review that, uh, and I understand the number of signs. You're already giving us an allowance there, but Sarah and Jim Reals, both of their signs exceed the height and area of the ordinance. 227 00:38:54,449 --> 00:39:10,590 Um, and I know it's in this packet and I've gone through it. I know, so you're reducing it to 64ft² allowable 48ft². Correct. And I'm missing that I don't see in my notes. Here is what is the current square footage of that site. 228 00:39:10,590 --> 00:39:13,949 About 125ft². 229 00:39:13,949 --> 00:39:16,750 It's 11 a little over 11 by 11. 230 00:39:16,750 --> 00:39:20,429 Okay. So you're taking a sign. And how high is that sign? Did you. 231 00:39:20,429 --> 00:39:20,630 Say. 232 00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:26,590 That one's 36ft at the base. 36ft, 36. About 48ft tall. 233 00:39:26,590 --> 00:39:27,269 Right. 234 00:39:27,269 --> 00:39:29,230 That's an impressive sign. 235 00:39:29,230 --> 00:39:30,429 It's very large. 236 00:39:30,429 --> 00:40:09,019 Yeah. Those used to be approved by Mdot because before Van Dyke. Van Dyke used to all, like all the state regulated, all the the billboard, the billboard signs that you see that are still up are because they were reviewed by Mdot before Macomb County Department of Roads took over Van Dyke that when the bypass and everything was constructed. That's why you see a lot of these taller signs, even like we're Tractor supply. You know, there's that really tall sign. That's why some of those still exist. It was a different form of government that did those reviews back then. And then when the county took over, they had their rules and right aways and square footage requirements. 237 00:40:09,019 --> 00:40:09,539 Okay. 238 00:40:09,539 --> 00:40:23,739 So I have a couple of questions. Um, I don't want to lose sight of what you're voluntarily doing for us by making the sign smaller. Is there a reason why? 648 it just didn't work for you. Did you look at 48? 239 00:40:23,739 --> 00:40:37,500 Um, it would be the same size as the certified used, so I wouldn't see it as standing out and really noting the dealership, um, would be my main argument, for lack of a better word. 240 00:40:37,500 --> 00:40:39,300 That's going to be your your scholarship size. 241 00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:41,099 Yeah, that would be the sign. 242 00:40:41,099 --> 00:40:41,900 So if it went to. 243 00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:54,369 48, how many of the signs would be larger than that. So you're saying one of one of the, one of the other signs would be small. Would it would actually be larger than your main. 244 00:40:54,369 --> 00:40:55,449 It would all be the same size. 245 00:40:55,449 --> 00:40:56,849 It would all be. So they would all be forged. 246 00:40:56,849 --> 00:40:59,570 There would be nothing that would stand out or be prominent. I think it's. 247 00:40:59,570 --> 00:41:00,289 What they. 248 00:41:00,289 --> 00:41:02,650 Want. One that's a little bigger than the other two, though. 249 00:41:02,650 --> 00:41:06,769 Okay. Because all the other signs are in compliance. Then as far as size. 250 00:41:06,769 --> 00:41:08,090 The other two would comply. 251 00:41:08,090 --> 00:41:08,449 Right. 252 00:41:08,449 --> 00:41:10,329 Correct. 253 00:41:10,329 --> 00:41:13,650 Are we are we good on the height. On the 48? 254 00:41:13,650 --> 00:41:14,489 Correct. 255 00:41:14,489 --> 00:41:18,289 Yeah. 256 00:41:18,289 --> 00:41:32,929 Um, the applicant referenced that table that has kind of signed size compared to the number of signs on the site. That's on page five of our review letter for anyone that was looking for that. 257 00:41:32,929 --> 00:41:37,010 Write the number on the poles on all that suburban. 258 00:41:37,010 --> 00:41:38,409 Ford suburban. 259 00:41:38,409 --> 00:41:39,690 Ford does not have. 260 00:41:39,690 --> 00:41:46,170 See, for me, I don't feel like I'm approving a larger sign. I feel like I'm approving a sign reduction in size. 261 00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:47,489 Sure. 262 00:41:47,489 --> 00:42:13,550 I get that. You want everyone to come into compliance with what we're asking in the ordinance, and instead you're asking for relief to build a sign that's too big for what's there. But the alternative to me is they'll then you leave 125 foot sign up as your marquee or as your business, which is almost double the size. So really, I'm looking at a almost 100% reduction. 263 00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:15,150 In a much cleaner look. 264 00:42:15,150 --> 00:42:16,750 And a cleaner look. 265 00:42:16,750 --> 00:42:20,190 I mean, no offense, but that sign is ugly. Your old one. 266 00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:20,710 There's a. 267 00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:21,789 Few updates. 268 00:42:21,789 --> 00:42:25,510 That need to be happened, that need to happen to bring us up, you know, to. 269 00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:26,190 You don't notice. 270 00:42:26,190 --> 00:42:36,230 The safety as well that the poll if you look at the poll for that very large sign there, there's could be. I'm not a structural engineer, but. 271 00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:37,190 There's rusty holes in. 272 00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:37,670 It. 273 00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:46,389 I wouldn't have noticed it. I wouldn't have noticed that you needed a replacement until you brought it before. Because your place always looks spectacular, clean and neat. 274 00:42:46,389 --> 00:42:52,340 Beautiful. It's so much nicer when it's down. And I mean, this was probably great in 1970. But you know. 275 00:42:52,340 --> 00:42:52,539 What? 276 00:42:52,539 --> 00:42:54,980 We don't make the little wood shingles. 277 00:42:54,980 --> 00:43:05,219 It would be common for the main sign to have a little more beef to it than your, uh, your used car sign. 278 00:43:05,219 --> 00:43:11,139 I'm going to make a motion for open public comments support. 279 00:43:11,139 --> 00:43:12,300 I'll make the motion. 280 00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:13,820 Okay. Thank you. 281 00:43:13,820 --> 00:43:14,940 All in favor? 282 00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:15,579 Aye. 283 00:43:15,579 --> 00:43:17,619 All right. 284 00:43:17,619 --> 00:43:18,900 No one from the public. 285 00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:19,179 Here. 286 00:43:19,179 --> 00:43:22,860 For this one. All. Anybody want to make a motion to close public hearing? 287 00:43:22,860 --> 00:43:23,739 Oh. 288 00:43:23,739 --> 00:43:49,599 Yes. Let me just remind the public what we're in case they're missing yet. 289 00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:54,920 Thank you. 290 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,880 Make a motion. Nobody's here. Do we want to make a motion to close public hearing? 291 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,079 I support. 292 00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:11,119 If I can make the motion, I'll make the motion to close the public. Appreciate you. She supports it. Thank you. All right. Anybody have any questions. 293 00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:12,760 About the. 294 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:26,000 Suit? No. Basically, he's going for 125 square foot, making lower on the 64 square foot. What? A requirement is 48 square foot. 295 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,760 And getting rid of the old look. 296 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,079 Under. 297 00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:31,719 The shingles. All that jazz. 298 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:37,599 And how tall is this new sign going to be? 12ft off the ground. 299 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:42,239 Is it 12 or 11? Because this graphic shows 11ft. 300 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:48,389 The motion is says 1012. 301 00:44:48,389 --> 00:44:54,190 I thought it was two. That was the. The dimensions that were given was 64ft² and 12ft in height. 302 00:44:54,190 --> 00:44:54,869 Are you able to. 303 00:44:54,869 --> 00:44:55,309 Clarify. 304 00:44:55,309 --> 00:44:59,949 For the sign how high it is? So you're going from the the current sign is. 305 00:44:59,949 --> 00:45:01,630 It's 12ft, 64. 306 00:45:01,630 --> 00:45:05,510 12ft. 307 00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:14,469 Yeah. So 64ft² and 12 foot height is. Is there an ordinance. What's the ordinance right now? 1010. So it's two feet over. 308 00:45:14,469 --> 00:45:15,670 Yes. 309 00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:18,230 But it's currently. 310 00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:29,750 But what was what was presented today on the record. Proposed sign one with the 41% decrease is showing a height of 11ft. 311 00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:32,829 Would you give me the dimensions? They were at 12. 312 00:45:32,829 --> 00:45:36,030 That's why we said 12. 313 00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:49,409 Yeah. When I had asked the. Because this was a little confusing with like the all the varieties of So this. Yeah. So 66 to 64. And the 12 was what was. 314 00:45:49,409 --> 00:45:50,010 Asking for. 315 00:45:50,010 --> 00:45:53,610 Six in the email. But I mean if you. 316 00:45:53,610 --> 00:45:54,010 But. 317 00:45:54,010 --> 00:45:55,130 You would know more than I would. 318 00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:55,849 I'm just but this. 319 00:45:55,849 --> 00:45:56,489 Is what I. 320 00:45:56,489 --> 00:45:56,690 Like. 321 00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:57,489 The motive. 322 00:45:57,489 --> 00:45:58,489 I think it should be. 323 00:45:58,489 --> 00:46:02,530 It looks like the measure, you know, the sign area and then the frame up above. 324 00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:06,449 Yeah. It's from the great. So it's the established grade to the top of the sign. 325 00:46:06,449 --> 00:46:06,929 To the top. 326 00:46:06,929 --> 00:46:08,809 Yeah. 327 00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:13,329 Well our board packet is correct. Dana, did you do the board packet. Yes it's correct. 328 00:46:13,329 --> 00:46:14,570 Would there agree. 329 00:46:14,570 --> 00:46:16,449 On the board packet. You have it correct. 330 00:46:16,449 --> 00:46:17,329 For the 12ft. 331 00:46:17,329 --> 00:46:20,289 Yep. You have 64ft² in area and 12ft in height. 332 00:46:20,289 --> 00:46:20,849 Yes. 333 00:46:20,849 --> 00:46:22,409 What we're looking at is this what. 334 00:46:22,409 --> 00:46:23,489 They just handed over. 335 00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:24,050 To them. 336 00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:35,050 But yeah that was what was sent originally. So just just for purposes of making the motion, you know, I mean obviously if it if they make the motion for 12 and it's 11 that's a foot lower. 337 00:46:35,050 --> 00:46:35,369 11. 338 00:46:35,369 --> 00:46:44,800 You know, it's but you go the opposite way and now you're trying to reduce it by a foot. so I just make sure that. 339 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:58,960 I stick with their original numbers. I guess I didn't realize it, but there is no 48 option apparently here. So at 36, we're a little under spec on the used car sign. 340 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:04,639 When you when you pick a sign company, um, how did you select them? Was that GM did they help drive. 341 00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:05,079 Me towards. 342 00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:05,280 This? 343 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,800 So you you you lease the signs from them. You don't even own them. You release them. 344 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,079 From. So this is something you lease. So you. 345 00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:20,480 Yeah. This is what you pick from. 346 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:20,719 On the. 347 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:21,239 Base. 348 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:21,559 Yeah. 349 00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:25,480 Okay. 350 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:31,199 So if I had a sign company, I could give you a better deal. You couldn't even buy from me. But you're saying. 351 00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:32,039 I know. 352 00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:34,599 A digital sign we could get from. Yeah. 353 00:47:34,599 --> 00:47:37,960 Oh, don't say that. We're going to get mail about this. 354 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,360 I don't have a digital sign. 355 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,789 Mr. Cassel is not looking for sign business. 356 00:47:41,789 --> 00:47:43,309 No. 357 00:47:43,309 --> 00:48:01,230 The applicant will have to come in for separate sign permits. This is just the variance piece. 358 00:48:01,230 --> 00:48:11,510 So basically you just want to go 64 square foot. 359 00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:14,710 At 1212ft off the ground. Is it 11 now? 360 00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:18,710 Yes. Yes. My other one's my mistake. 361 00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:23,710 Other one was 36ft off the ground at 125ft². 362 00:48:23,710 --> 00:48:28,309 So what I have here is, is, is a. 363 00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:39,889 Is a 16 square foot variance per square foot for the sign and a variance for a two foot and additional height. Is that what. Is that my understanding? 364 00:48:39,889 --> 00:48:40,610 Yes. 365 00:48:40,610 --> 00:48:50,650 As what's written in the actual paper. Now, this was a good handout, but this just didn't have the right height in there, right? Or could I, especially if you can read the. 366 00:48:50,650 --> 00:48:54,090 I can't read. That's why I asked. I can't read that. 367 00:48:54,090 --> 00:48:55,050 Yes. Good question. 368 00:48:55,050 --> 00:49:07,610 And if it's 11 I just can't go the opposite. 369 00:49:07,610 --> 00:49:09,210 Well you could it would just require. 370 00:49:09,210 --> 00:49:15,369 Another another round of our presence here. 371 00:49:15,369 --> 00:49:31,690 All right. Hope everyone vote. So they believe based off this. But I'm going to make a motion to again approve the request made for 64200 Van Dyke, parcel number 240414100003. 372 00:49:31,690 --> 00:49:36,719 And parcel 240414100004 373 00:49:36,719 --> 00:52:55,269 for variance from the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance Article 5.0 site standards. Section 5.20 sign regulations. Golf allowed signs and dimensional standards. Three allowed permanent signs. Table 5.20 golf three allowed permanent sign types and standards for non-residential zoning districts, monument sign dimensions, maximum sign area, and maximum height and allow for the for one ground sign to exceed the maximum square footage by 16ft and a maximum height by two feet. The proposed sign is 64ft² in area and 12ft in height. Ordinance requirements for monument sign dimensions allow for a maximum sign area to be 48ft, and the maximum height to be ten feet. This decision was based on the criteria outlined in the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance, Section 7.9. Echo Zoning Board of Appeals variance review procedures One, strict enforcement would cause practical difficulty or hardship. The main shrubby sign serves as the primary identification for this large, long established dealership on 550ft of Van Dyke frontage. The request of a relief allows adequate identification while actually reducing the size of the existing signage from 125ft² to 64ft². The condition that makes US variance necessary are unique to the property and do not apply to other properties. The site is approximately 550ft of frontage. Multiple dealership operations and a long standing commercial development. It's. Moreover, it's unique because GM gives you a certain allotment of signs to pick from that don't necessarily correspond with the ordinance included in Washington Township. Therefore, conditions and circumstances were not created by the owner again. You're replacing a long standing existing sign, and it was approved by Mdot. Then you're now establishing a new sign. Oh. I'm sorry. This is not an undeveloped site. You're replacing a sign, and the replacement is actually smaller than the larger existing sign, and therefore actually reduces the degree of existing nonconformity. Right. The applicant could otherwise just retain the existing sign. The variance will not confer special privileges. Other automobile dealerships in the township do have signs that exceed the area. And again, you're asking to actually reduce the overall square footage of the sign. And I want to say that as well. And the height down to 12ft. So therefore the variance will not be contrary to the spirit or intent of the ordinance. The proposed sign, although larger than what's currently permitted, is actually smaller than the existing sign. It allows for continued effective business identification while bringing the property into compliance with the standards. And what I believe the spirit of the ordinance is trying to do for the township I support. Okay, can we get a roll call, please, Mr. Kozel? Yes. To approve. 374 00:52:55,269 --> 00:53:01,309 Yes to approve, Miss Hall? Yes to approve, Mr. 375 00:53:01,309 --> 00:53:05,510 Mr. 376 00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:06,550 He answered for you. 377 00:53:06,550 --> 00:53:07,590 Oh. 378 00:53:07,590 --> 00:53:11,829 Sorry. Sometimes it's hard to hear. Names are so close. 379 00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:14,269 Okay. So you're a no. No. In a yes. 380 00:53:14,269 --> 00:53:15,829 Okay. 381 00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:25,909 All right. Motion carries. All right. One to go. So now we're looking at again same property. 382 00:53:25,909 --> 00:53:49,739 64200 Vandyke zoning ordinance, article 5.0 site standards. Section 5.0. 5.20 sign regulations. Hotel General regulations for setback standards. Table 5.20 hotel four required sign setbacks. Major road is 70ft. Again, this is for parcel 240414100003 383 00:53:49,739 --> 00:54:07,780 and 004. All right. Now we're talking about bringing the signage which should be 70 foot setback from the road you're looking to. Can you talk a little bit about what you're the sign locations which if I understand they're not changing. They're keeping it silent. 384 00:54:07,780 --> 00:54:58,489 Yeah. The signs would stay right in line with where they are now. 385 00:54:58,489 --> 00:55:32,309 I know one of the things that I appreciated you had included in the packet was, uh, was a letter from the right of way agent from Macomb County Department of Roads, and he says that the he's he's looked at where the signs are right now, and he concurs that, uh, the area between the 33ft of existing right of way, which you shaded in blue and the future right of way, which is shaded in green. So that might be a future development. Is that what they're talking about is that when they talk about the part that shaded blue versus shade of green. 386 00:55:32,309 --> 00:55:33,349 Um. 387 00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:35,269 You're possible right away. 388 00:55:35,269 --> 00:55:44,150 No, it's actually where their right of way falls today. So for whatever reason, they have the West as a larger right of way than the East. It's separated. 389 00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:44,869 Okay. 390 00:55:44,869 --> 00:55:51,070 Yeah. So their future right away is the Green line on page four of our review. And that image provided by the applicant. 391 00:55:51,070 --> 00:56:23,429 Okay. And that future right away, uh, remains your property. It says that and it would not we. And it says and you would not need anything from us as far as a permit to place a sign in that area. Uh, there may be setbacks, EIS and replacement requirements, basically saying that those signs currently allow for the right of way that could be given. So I do appreciate that we ask that for a lot of times for someone to check with the road commission before they do something, especially with the setback. And I have that included. 392 00:56:23,429 --> 00:56:39,340 I thought that was great. I'm going to ask him to do it. 393 00:56:39,340 --> 00:56:44,380 That was the easiest part of the whole thing was once I got all that guy, he was like, oh yeah, no problem. 394 00:56:44,380 --> 00:56:50,059 He did apologize in the letter, so he maybe had to call him twice on twice. 395 00:56:50,059 --> 00:56:56,059 Funny how pretty friendly guy. I wasn't looking for an apology. I wasn't mad about anything. 396 00:56:56,059 --> 00:57:09,980 And again, what you're looking at doing, as we keep saying over and over again, is that these signs are currently where they are. You're not asking to bring them any closer to the road. You're not asking. You're asking to keep them in the same spots. 397 00:57:09,980 --> 00:57:11,340 Correct. 398 00:57:11,340 --> 00:57:20,820 You've seen some of their concerns about. They want to make sure you don't block any kind of right of way, and it's not too bright for cars and all that stuff. 399 00:57:20,820 --> 00:57:22,019 Correct. 400 00:57:22,019 --> 00:57:26,519 And they have sign lighting standards they'll have to comply with through our ordinance. 401 00:57:26,519 --> 00:57:41,079 Okay, I know that's going to be getting light pollution. And I always think that's tough on a major road. But yeah, complying with that is. 402 00:57:41,079 --> 00:57:44,159 Shall we make a motion for public comment? 403 00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:46,400 A motion for public comments. 404 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,840 I'd like to make a motion for public comment. 405 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,280 We have a second. 406 00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,000 Oh, come on, don't leave me hanging here. 407 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,360 Somebody might do that. 408 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,239 All right, I have a motion for Miss Marlon, supported by Miss Hall. All in favor? 409 00:58:01,239 --> 00:58:02,400 Aye. 410 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:15,760 Great. So again, this is for the same property, 6400. Let me look a little bit further into it just to talk about the actual. 411 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:22,349 The distance from the road here. I love computers. 412 00:58:22,349 --> 00:58:24,070 They're not moving their current sign. 413 00:58:24,070 --> 00:58:34,469 Correct. Yeah. I'm just talking about what the variance is that. So anytime you tear something down, technically, um, we're moving it. So this was. 414 00:58:34,469 --> 00:58:51,469 A setback variance for all three proposed signs in the amount of 36ft. So this is a 36 foot measured from the centerline of band. The right of way again for 64200 van Dyke 240414100003 415 00:58:51,469 --> 00:58:57,550 and 004. 416 00:58:57,550 --> 00:58:58,469 Clearance for all. 417 00:58:58,469 --> 00:58:59,030 Three. 418 00:58:59,030 --> 00:59:03,670 Signs. Anybody from public comments? 419 00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:06,070 I'll make the motion to close the public. 420 00:59:06,070 --> 00:59:07,510 Oh, I'll support. 421 00:59:07,510 --> 00:59:09,190 How quick that was. All in favor? 422 00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:10,230 Aye. 423 00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:19,590 Thank you. How far is 70ft? So currently, how far are they from the road? Is it 36ft or is it 30? 424 00:59:19,590 --> 00:59:20,699 It would be 34. 425 00:59:20,699 --> 00:59:21,780 From the sidelines. 426 00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:22,940 Request 3036. 427 00:59:22,940 --> 00:59:23,460 Plus. 428 00:59:23,460 --> 00:59:25,780 Variance. 429 00:59:25,780 --> 00:59:30,260 Did I read some of that? Said, if you made it go where it was supposed to be, like in the second row of the car? 430 00:59:30,260 --> 00:59:35,500 Yeah it would, yeah. B be towards the showroom entrance. So yeah. 431 00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:37,059 It wouldn't work. 432 00:59:37,059 --> 00:59:58,500 I know the Samaritan house too. They're very close to the road. But again, if you ask them to push it back they would lose space for providing food. 433 00:59:58,500 --> 01:00:08,739 Do you have anything else with this? 434 01:00:08,739 --> 01:00:41,239 I've been practicing with this computer thing. How to find stuff? It's not that bad. Okay, um, looks like there was one other thing that I wanted to bring up. 435 01:00:41,239 --> 01:00:54,960 A motion. I'll make a motion. One more time to approve the request. Made for 64200. Van Dijk, parcel number 240414100003 436 01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:02,519 and 2404 1400 1410 0004 437 01:01:02,519 --> 01:01:47,070 for variance from the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance Article 5.0 site Standard section 5.20 sign regulations. Hotel General Regulations number for setback standards. Table 5.20 hotel for required sign setbacks, major road requirements, 70ft and allow for a reduction and setback for the monument sign locations and the amount of 36ft, making the distance as measured from the centerline of Van Dyke Road right away, 34ft. Decision was based on criteria outlined in the Washington Township Zoning Ordinance, Section 7.9 Echo Zoning Board of Appeals variance review procedures number one strict enforcement would cause practical difficulty. 438 01:01:47,070 --> 01:02:55,929 The signs are currently there. They're not in a different location. And if you were to bring them into compliance, be moving the signs into your parking lot. Therefore, this is a hardship that you'd have to face. The conditions that make it necessary are unique to the property and that the property has two parcels. Approximately 550ft of Van Dyke frontage and has been developed and operated as a dealership for, we'll say, over 50 years. It's been there a long time. The long standing sign locations, vehicle displays and existing site configuration create conditions that are particular to this developed property. This is not created by the owner. The requested setback does not result from a newly selected sign location. Instead, the applicant proposes to maintain the general locations or the locations of the longstanding existing signs while replacing and modernizing them. 439 01:02:55,929 --> 01:03:19,639 This practical difficulty results from applying the current setback requirements and replacing the sign frontage that's already been developed on the site. The variance will not confer special privileges. The variance is based on particular circumstances of this established property and its existing development. 440 01:03:19,639 --> 01:04:11,860 Also, Macomb County Department of Roads has verified that this would not impede with the right of way. Therefore, the variance will not be contrary to the spirit and intent of the zoning ordinance. Maintaining the general existing sign locations allowed continued business identification without changing the long standing locations of the sign. The signs are not being moved closer to the roadway, and the variance does not authorize an encroachment on the existing right of way in Macomb, um, in the existing right of way. And again, the Macomb County Department of Roads did not identify the maintained areas as affecting the existing right of way. Therefore, I believe this is in the spirit and intent of the ordinance. 441 01:04:11,860 --> 01:04:12,420 Anybody want. 442 01:04:12,420 --> 01:04:15,860 A second? I'll second that. 443 01:04:15,860 --> 01:04:19,860 We have a motion by Colesville, seconded by Pawlak. Roll call. 444 01:04:19,860 --> 01:04:20,780 Yes. To approve. 445 01:04:20,780 --> 01:04:21,420 Pawlak. 446 01:04:21,420 --> 01:04:21,619 Yes. 447 01:04:21,619 --> 01:04:22,980 To approve Pohlad. 448 01:04:22,980 --> 01:04:24,059 Yes. To approve. 449 01:04:24,059 --> 01:04:26,340 Milam. Yes. To approve? 450 01:04:26,340 --> 01:04:49,980 Yes, sir. 451 01:04:49,980 --> 01:04:50,460 That's the goal. 452 01:04:50,460 --> 01:04:52,380 Thank you for all you do. 453 01:04:52,380 --> 01:04:55,460 Thank you. 454 01:04:55,460 --> 01:05:08,500 Hold on. I'll get a hold of GM too and see if by chance we can get that one signed to come down and get rid of some of that base. Okay, maybe we could squeeze in and look a little better. So I'll make a call and see if I can find the right person. 455 01:05:08,500 --> 01:05:09,460 All right. 456 01:05:09,460 --> 01:05:18,650 That old sign. That old sign has been around for a long time. Oh, yeah, I remember seeing that. I remember seeing that in the yearbooks in the 70s. 457 01:05:18,650 --> 01:05:33,769 When we lost Oldsmobile. I was able to. We're supposed to break them all up and take them away. But I said, maybe you guys should go grab some pizza. You know, and I had my garage for a long time. I only gave it away to some Oldsmobile club. Yeah, I think we got some history. 458 01:05:33,769 --> 01:05:41,809 Yeah, I said I seen it in some of the, you know, they put pictures in the yearbook. I remember seeing that in the yearbook this morning. 459 01:05:41,809 --> 01:05:49,170 And dad, my dad was so. Yeah. Fun stuff. We had lots of stories around this long. So appreciate your time. 460 01:05:49,170 --> 01:05:50,090 Thank you very much. 461 01:05:50,090 --> 01:05:52,050 You have a good day. 462 01:05:52,050 --> 01:06:01,170 All right. Public comments. We had so much from the public earlier. Anybody else from the public want to talk at this time? 463 01:06:01,170 --> 01:06:02,489 Member comments. 464 01:06:02,489 --> 01:06:55,000 I have one comment. Since we have the issue with the landscaping like approval. I think we need to have something in place, either with staff planning or pre-planning, that no construction should start unless it's approved by someone and staff. Because, for instance, that property like I happen to be in a township hall today and there's a property on Van Dyke south of 27th on the west side, and they're in violation of the ordinance already. So somewhere there needs to be information or like a checklist that no one should be able to concert or construction until they get approval. 465 01:06:55,000 --> 01:07:01,840 But they did conform with the approved site plan. So it was something that should have been caught during the review process. 466 01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:12,380 Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Somehow, because that person's violation right now, So are they going to come before the NBA? 467 01:07:12,380 --> 01:07:13,780 Well they should. 468 01:07:13,780 --> 01:07:18,219 They should have ordinance enforcement. 469 01:07:18,219 --> 01:07:21,219 I know that's a tough thing. Ordinance enforcement. 470 01:07:21,219 --> 01:07:23,820 Does that work with an approved site plan? 471 01:07:23,820 --> 01:07:56,579 Yes. So in this case, that specific property. Um, there was a site plan on file with the township that had been approved. Um, even though, you know, there was that issue in the parking lot, islands of of not being compliant, compliant with the Sod standard. Um, it was an approved site plan, which means at this point it can't be enforced for that ordinance because it conforms to the site plan that was approved and then on file with the township. Um, I'm not sure what year that was approved. Um, we, you know. 472 01:07:56,579 --> 01:08:47,609 Yeah, not that long ago, but with other ones that have removed, you know, materials and then put materials in, that would be an enforcement if it was approved with a plan that required the sod. Then yes, we can go. And you know, obviously we are working on some ordinance updates. Um, I don't know where we'll land with that configuration of what would be acceptable. That's up to the planning commission and board. But, you know, ultimately the the only ones on an enforcement, you know, standpoint would be ones that are in violation and removed Sod that had an approved site plan. But the one that you're referencing was approved with, with landscaping. And, um, Stone. 473 01:08:47,609 --> 01:09:02,090 Is a moving that there's about three, three other buildings that are going up. And I think one won't need a variance, but the other two might, depending upon me. I haven't seen anything on the Planning Commission. 474 01:09:02,090 --> 01:09:17,229 And with the particular one that was in front of the CBA. They were approved. They met the ordinance requirements. They came back after, you know, for consideration. So their approved site plan on file had showed, you know, the sod and the trees. 475 01:09:17,229 --> 01:09:26,630 So I had to have someone come before us after. It's violating the ordinance, that's all. 476 01:09:26,630 --> 01:09:28,510 That's a tough thing. When they come. 477 01:09:28,510 --> 01:09:29,949 Back it's an after after. 478 01:09:29,949 --> 01:09:31,270 The hoops. You caught me. 479 01:09:31,270 --> 01:09:52,590 Yeah. We've had that happen where people coming after and said, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't know I couldn't do that, especially even with decks and patios. And I know you've seen your fair share of those, too. 480 01:09:52,590 --> 01:09:54,470 I'll make the motion to adjourn. 481 01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:55,909 All right. I'll see you. 482 01:09:55,909 --> 01:09:56,869 All in favor? 483 01:09:56,869 --> 01:09:57,829 Aye, aye. 484 01:09:57,829 --> 01:09:57,829 All right. Thank you.