1 00:00:24,140 --> 00:00:27,920 Started to live. Let us know when we can start, please. 2 00:00:28,420 --> 00:00:32,840 Yes, ma'am. Good evening, everyone. I am now starting all recording devices. 3 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,180 Mr. Chairman, we're all set and ready to go. 4 00:00:39,020 --> 00:00:39,780 Thank you. 5 00:00:42,590 --> 00:00:52,470 Welcome to the August 2020-26 meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission, which is in person and on Zoom. 6 00:00:55,450 --> 00:00:57,950 Ms. Davis, can I have a roll call, please? 7 00:00:58,650 --> 00:00:59,930 Yes, Ms. Rossin. 8 00:01:00,570 --> 00:01:01,090 Here. 9 00:01:01,590 --> 00:01:02,170 Mr. Wright. 10 00:01:02,730 --> 00:01:02,990 Here. 11 00:01:03,350 --> 00:01:04,170 Councilwoman Jones. 12 00:01:04,930 --> 00:01:05,190 Here. 13 00:01:05,690 --> 00:01:06,370 Ms. Marlowe. 14 00:01:07,310 --> 00:01:07,650 Here. 15 00:01:07,950 --> 00:01:08,710 And Ms. LeVine. 16 00:01:09,210 --> 00:01:09,530 Here. 17 00:01:09,730 --> 00:01:10,430 We have a quorum. 18 00:01:10,910 --> 00:01:11,330 Thank you. 19 00:01:12,130 --> 00:01:13,630 Adequate notice of this meeting 20 00:01:13,630 --> 00:01:15,170 had been provided to the press 21 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:17,430 in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act, 22 00:01:17,570 --> 00:01:19,490 NJSA 10-4-6. 23 00:01:20,010 --> 00:01:21,550 In addition, notice of this meeting 24 00:01:21,550 --> 00:01:23,090 was posted in Village Hall 25 00:01:23,090 --> 00:01:27,390 on the village's website and it's been filed in the office the village clerk 26 00:01:27,390 --> 00:01:35,030 official action may be taken approval of the minutes that he sent out the 27 00:01:35,030 --> 00:01:41,710 minutes from the June and July meetings which seem to be accurate and 28 00:01:41,710 --> 00:01:49,690 adequate to me does anybody have any comments on the minutes okay can I 29 00:01:49,690 --> 00:01:53,930 I have a motion to accept the minutes. 30 00:01:54,190 --> 00:01:56,030 I make a motion to accept the minutes. 31 00:01:56,570 --> 00:01:57,770 Okay, second. 32 00:01:59,150 --> 00:01:59,710 Second. 33 00:02:00,490 --> 00:02:01,750 Okay, all in favor. 34 00:02:02,570 --> 00:02:02,870 Aye. 35 00:02:03,890 --> 00:02:04,490 Any opposed? 36 00:02:05,150 --> 00:02:05,390 Nay. 37 00:02:07,190 --> 00:02:09,230 And we also put on the record 38 00:02:09,230 --> 00:02:11,810 that Ms. Crawford has joined us. 39 00:02:12,110 --> 00:02:12,690 I'm so sorry. 40 00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:13,230 Bravo. 41 00:02:13,390 --> 00:02:13,610 It's okay. 42 00:02:14,270 --> 00:02:15,210 We just started. 43 00:02:15,470 --> 00:02:16,450 We just started the meeting. 44 00:02:20,620 --> 00:02:25,750 I'm sorry, Mr. Chair was the minutes for both sets. Yes. Okay. Thank you 45 00:02:26,780 --> 00:02:30,580 Okay, now we can move on to HPC case 46 00:02:31,170 --> 00:02:32,680 2026-3 47 00:02:34,910 --> 00:02:36,190 Harlem Gunness 48 00:02:36,910 --> 00:02:39,550 block 903 block 22 49 00:02:40,430 --> 00:02:41,570 20 Elm Court 50 00:02:42,630 --> 00:02:47,410 Applicant is proposing an ADU attached to the existing single-family house 51 00:02:53,860 --> 00:02:55,400 Okay, whatever you're gonna come up with. 52 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:58,500 Thanks, Brian. 53 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:59,180 Perfect. 54 00:02:59,540 --> 00:02:59,760 Okay. 55 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:03,860 Brian, if you want to pull up the slide, please. 56 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:06,400 Yes, ma'am. 57 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:07,180 Pulling it up now. 58 00:03:08,180 --> 00:03:08,860 Thank you. 59 00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:12,660 Can you please state your names for the record? 60 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:13,360 Yes. 61 00:03:13,580 --> 00:03:15,380 John Loughran, a homeowner at 20 Ohm Court. 62 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,740 Harlem Gunn is homeowner as well. 63 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:19,040 20 Ohm Court. 64 00:03:19,660 --> 00:03:22,000 Let me just get spelling of your names and then I'll swear you. 65 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:22,600 Sure. 66 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:27,880 John, J-O-H-N, Lachran, L-O-U-G-H-R-A-N. 67 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:30,440 L-U-G-H-R-A-N. 68 00:03:30,540 --> 00:03:32,760 L-O-U-G-H-R-A-N. 69 00:03:32,940 --> 00:03:33,200 Thank you. 70 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:33,880 Okay, you were? 71 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,300 Harlem, like Harlem, New York, H-A-R-L-E-M. 72 00:03:38,460 --> 00:03:42,760 And Guinness, like Guinness, without the I-G-U-N-N-N-N-S-S. 73 00:03:45,090 --> 00:03:46,830 All right, Mr. Laughlin and Mr. Guinness, 74 00:03:46,910 --> 00:03:47,650 do you surrender the testimony 75 00:03:47,650 --> 00:03:48,510 or provide the seating? 76 00:03:48,690 --> 00:03:49,470 Is the truth or the whole truth? 77 00:03:50,450 --> 00:03:51,190 Yes, it is. 78 00:03:52,270 --> 00:03:52,570 Okay. 79 00:03:54,710 --> 00:03:57,950 So we're proposing to add on an accessory dwelling unit 80 00:03:57,950 --> 00:03:59,410 behind our home at 20 Elm Court. 81 00:04:00,130 --> 00:04:01,730 You can go to the next slide. 82 00:04:03,250 --> 00:04:05,210 We're located on 20 Elm Court 83 00:04:05,210 --> 00:04:07,750 between University Court and South Orange Avenue. 84 00:04:08,070 --> 00:04:13,490 We're in a RE-60 zone, I guess you go to the next slide. 85 00:04:15,830 --> 00:04:18,710 So we comply with the zoning, 86 00:04:20,730 --> 00:04:22,130 except for a minimum lot width, 87 00:04:22,230 --> 00:04:24,170 but we're a non-conforming pre-existing use. 88 00:04:24,170 --> 00:04:27,230 All of the other requirements for the zoning. We do comply with 89 00:04:27,230 --> 00:04:29,770 I said the 90 00:04:29,770 --> 00:04:36,110 Minimum lot with we're pre-existing additions. We don't comply with that, but all the other conditions for the zoning we do comply with 91 00:04:37,490 --> 00:04:46,010 No, we do not because it's already non-conforming. It's all all ready non-conforming. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure whether we were here for 92 00:04:49,150 --> 00:04:53,550 So we're existing one family home we're proposing accessory drilling unit in the rear yard 93 00:04:55,910 --> 00:05:02,170 Let's see. It's approximately a 14 foot by 35 foot addition in the back. If you go to 94 00:05:02,170 --> 00:05:02,670 the next slide. 95 00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:09,680 So you can see the addition is in the back off the right-hand side of 96 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,580 the house in the back of the property. It's set 10 feet off the property line. Once again 97 00:05:14,580 --> 00:05:20,780 it comes back about 35 feet. It is a one-story addition of 480 square feet. That will be 98 00:05:20,780 --> 00:05:26,760 the accessory drilling unit. To construct the accessory drilling unit we are, there's 99 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,480 an existing screened-in porch in that location that would be removed to put the accessory 100 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,500 drilling unit addition on. And we can see photos of that if we go to the next slide. 101 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,440 Oh sorry, next slide is the plan. So you can see, let's see once again it's about 102 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:47,220 35 feet straight back. I just want to note to you that off the side elevation the 103 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,760 The addition is recessed back two feet to give it a break from the existing mass and existing facade. 104 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:59,580 You can see that it's a one bedroom, one bath addition, 480 square feet. 105 00:06:00,580 --> 00:06:01,520 So next slide, please. 106 00:06:05,170 --> 00:06:07,370 Okay, so this is a view of the existing house. 107 00:06:08,270 --> 00:06:09,950 You on the left is with the front of the house. 108 00:06:10,190 --> 00:06:12,130 On the right is the rear house. 109 00:06:12,690 --> 00:06:18,650 Rear of the house, you can see the existing through the porch that would be removed to add the new dwelling unit. 110 00:06:18,650 --> 00:06:23,430 unit. The new dwelling unit matches the existing roof pitch. 111 00:06:25,670 --> 00:06:26,690 I'm getting a little out of order 112 00:06:26,690 --> 00:06:26,910 here. 113 00:06:29,350 --> 00:06:33,550 Okay. So, yes, you know the next slide. So, yes, you can see that screened in porch. 114 00:06:34,770 --> 00:06:40,630 Once again, that's removed. So, the new addition is set back two feet from side to side. The 115 00:06:40,630 --> 00:06:45,770 next slide. And these are the homes to the left of us, the homes to the right of 116 00:06:45,770 --> 00:06:48,230 The addition would be in the back of the house 117 00:06:48,230 --> 00:06:49,510 so it wouldn't be visible from the street. 118 00:06:49,930 --> 00:06:52,050 So it wouldn't be changing the look from the street at all. 119 00:06:53,410 --> 00:06:55,090 This is the rear facade on the left. 120 00:06:55,230 --> 00:06:57,130 So once again, we matched the roof pitch 121 00:06:57,130 --> 00:06:59,490 on that existing porch. 122 00:06:59,670 --> 00:07:02,590 It matches that existing breakfast room to the right 123 00:07:02,590 --> 00:07:03,770 so that pitch stays the same. 124 00:07:04,270 --> 00:07:05,590 We went with a very simple structure 125 00:07:05,590 --> 00:07:07,810 so that it is subordinate to the main structure 126 00:07:07,810 --> 00:07:08,510 and the main house. 127 00:07:08,630 --> 00:07:09,830 So you can still read the main house 128 00:07:09,830 --> 00:07:11,150 even though it has an addition. 129 00:07:11,850 --> 00:07:15,650 As far as materials, we're proposing party plank siding 130 00:07:15,650 --> 00:07:22,730 A simple clapboard siding that would be the same contour and section as the existing house. 131 00:07:24,030 --> 00:07:29,270 The new siding does not come in contact with the existing wood siding except for that inside 132 00:07:29,270 --> 00:07:33,930 corner on the right-hand side because the first floor is brick where the two touch, where 133 00:07:33,930 --> 00:07:35,310 the two meet each other, so very different. 134 00:07:36,430 --> 00:07:40,210 The fenestrations are intended to match the proportions of the existing. 135 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:47,670 existing. Those windows on the right-hand side elevation, for instance, are taller windows 136 00:07:47,670 --> 00:07:54,310 that match our dining room windows. Same similar to those. Once again, materials would be an 137 00:07:54,310 --> 00:07:59,030 asphalt roof that matches the existing. The hardy plank, simple clapboard sign that matches 138 00:07:59,030 --> 00:08:02,870 the existing sliding on the house. Let's see what's my note. 139 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:07,920 And if you go to the 140 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,220 next slide, this would be the view from the south side, which is actually the 141 00:08:13,220 --> 00:08:14,560 side or our neighbor's driveway side. 142 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:18,760 And once again, the intent was that it matches the same 143 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,300 window proportion existing house. 144 00:08:20,820 --> 00:08:23,480 It is clearly an accessory to the main dwelling unit. 145 00:08:24,140 --> 00:08:26,520 And you can't tell from here, but once again, 146 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:29,840 the existing house that it touches up against is bricks. 147 00:08:30,020 --> 00:08:31,480 You'll never see the two different materials 148 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,320 come together, the hardened plank 149 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,000 versus the original wood side. 150 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,160 We're using, I 151 00:08:42,610 --> 00:08:43,590 think that's my last slide. 152 00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:45,530 Any questions on that? 153 00:08:45,530 --> 00:08:51,130 How much how much how many feet beyond the I know I understand it's being removed 154 00:08:51,130 --> 00:08:56,090 But how many feet beyond the existing screened-in porch will this extend about 155 00:08:57,190 --> 00:09:00,530 Existing through important is eight feet or so so 156 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,140 27 26 so that's pretty long. Yeah. Yeah 157 00:09:10,180 --> 00:09:14,240 What's the setback from the rear property line 158 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,240 rear setback is 79 feet 159 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,100 Oh, so you have a deep, you have a deep here. 160 00:09:28,260 --> 00:09:31,620 Yeah, it's a, it's a trapezoidal shape plot, 161 00:09:31,740 --> 00:09:32,480 yes, so it's very deep. 162 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:33,420 Okay. 163 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,640 And then the side yard is set back 10 feet 164 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,860 from the side closest to the neighbor's yard. 165 00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:42,080 And that's actually less than... 166 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:44,040 Yes. 167 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:48,620 No, the current porch is set back seven feet, 168 00:09:49,180 --> 00:09:53,870 so this is, it's two additional feet 169 00:09:53,870 --> 00:09:55,250 from the existing porch set back. 170 00:09:55,330 --> 00:09:56,050 Nine feet, yeah. 171 00:09:56,890 --> 00:09:57,990 Yes, two additional feet. 172 00:09:58,710 --> 00:10:01,390 So this is set back further from the side yard than the porch was. 173 00:10:02,910 --> 00:10:06,590 Now from your pictures, you said that the roof lines are the same. 174 00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:11,510 The roof line is the same as the porch. 175 00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:13,850 The roof line on the addition. 176 00:10:14,510 --> 00:10:17,190 You meant the roof line of the existing screened in porch. 177 00:10:17,290 --> 00:10:17,870 The pitch, yes. 178 00:10:18,110 --> 00:10:18,810 The roof pitch, sorry, yes. 179 00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:19,350 The roof pitch. 180 00:10:20,490 --> 00:10:27,070 Can I see if you had an elevation just of that side so that the neighbor on that side, what that view would be? 181 00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:37,150 Yeah, if you go back, couple slides, go back, no, sorry, go back one slide, yeah, so that's 182 00:10:37,150 --> 00:10:43,670 the existing side elevation, and if you go forward two slides, it's two, yeah, one more 183 00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:43,910 slide, 184 00:10:46,780 --> 00:10:49,200 yeah, so that is the proposed elevation. 185 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,280 So you don't have like a view so you can see in scale to the whole house? 186 00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:54,140 No, we don't have that. 187 00:10:54,140 --> 00:11:02,480 Okay, no is is the extension longer than the current depth of the house? 188 00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:08,720 Yes, it is. 189 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:16,960 Yeah, you can probably see that on slide two or three 190 00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:27,330 Yes, this slide. Yeah, it's much longer and 191 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,680 then inside with the two windows raised 192 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:40,080 Those are ones facing the interior of your yard. Correct. Yes. Yeah, that's the north elevation. Mm-hmm 193 00:11:40,620 --> 00:11:44,380 Does the property behind you, does that bound on south on Javen? 194 00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:49,560 The property behind us is on, I always forget the name of that road. 195 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:50,800 What's the name of that road? 196 00:11:54,730 --> 00:11:55,210 Yeah. 197 00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:56,350 Can you read it up there? 198 00:11:58,900 --> 00:11:59,860 Warren Court. 199 00:12:00,060 --> 00:12:00,560 Warren Court. 200 00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:01,360 Okay. 201 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,800 And that's a residential building also? 202 00:12:03,860 --> 00:12:04,440 Correct, yes. 203 00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:06,420 Okay. 204 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,100 And they were all noticed for this, correct? 205 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:12,520 Everybody, there's no notice for this? 206 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:12,960 Okay. 207 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:13,200 Yes. 208 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:14,180 All right. 209 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:15,860 All right. 210 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:16,440 Okay. 211 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:17,800 Thank you. 212 00:12:17,980 --> 00:12:19,140 That was a very good presentation. 213 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:21,840 Does anybody have any more questions? 214 00:12:23,980 --> 00:12:29,060 I don't because I don't believe that you can see it from the road. 215 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:32,140 And I think that this really is a zoning. 216 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:34,840 A zoning they don't have to worry about. 217 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:35,180 Yeah. 218 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,900 So I have no issues with it. 219 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:44,900 Do we have any public that has questions? 220 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:46,900 No? 221 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:47,880 Anybody online? 222 00:12:52,330 --> 00:12:54,130 I'm not seeing any hands raised. 223 00:12:57,580 --> 00:12:58,380 Okay, thank you. 224 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,100 That was a very good presentation. 225 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,300 See, we're not horrible. 226 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:02,920 You 227 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,040 have one second. 228 00:13:07,260 --> 00:13:07,860 We're going to do that now. 229 00:13:08,060 --> 00:13:08,240 Okay. 230 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:09,260 Okay. 231 00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:11,260 So can I have a... 232 00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:13,740 So what would be a certificate of appropriateness? 233 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:14,980 Yeah. 234 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:16,080 I have a motion. 235 00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:26,220 I'll make a motion for certificate of Appropriateness for 12 Elm Court, yes, 12 Elm, 20 Elm. 236 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:27,760 Okay. 237 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:28,640 Anybody second? 238 00:13:31,740 --> 00:13:32,260 I'll second it. 239 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:32,640 Okay. 240 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:34,760 All in favor? 241 00:13:35,020 --> 00:13:35,720 Can I have a roll call? 242 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:40,200 Okay, Mr. Wright. 243 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:42,820 Yes. 244 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:44,700 Ms. Crawford. 245 00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:45,900 Yes. 246 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:47,440 Ms. Rosson. 247 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:47,960 Here. 248 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:50,660 That will be it. 249 00:13:50,660 --> 00:13:51,000 Oh, yes. 250 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:54,800 Ms. Marlowe. 251 00:13:55,420 --> 00:13:55,640 Yes. 252 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:56,500 And Ms. Levine. 253 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:56,960 Yes. 254 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:57,980 Washington, Canada. 255 00:13:59,020 --> 00:13:59,420 Congratulations. 256 00:14:02,460 --> 00:14:04,860 I'll prepare a certificate, a resolution, 257 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,180 and then, like that, you can take that resolution 258 00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:08,660 to the bill. 259 00:14:13,460 --> 00:14:15,220 You have an email address, don't you? 260 00:14:15,940 --> 00:14:16,540 What's it mean? 261 00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:17,900 I'll email it to Ruchi. 262 00:14:18,420 --> 00:14:18,660 Perfect. 263 00:14:18,940 --> 00:14:19,100 OK. 264 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:20,000 Thank you. 265 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,760 you're welcome thank you thank you yeah 266 00:14:47,460 --> 00:14:50,560 we can do that or find out who they are and do the rest first 267 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:59,980 and then we can do them first okay okay and congratulations Lynn that was your first look 268 00:15:04,850 --> 00:15:12,430 Okay, so now we're going to move on to our local landmark designations 269 00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:17,960 22. We're removing 270 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:24,700 324 Scotland Road from consideration at this point. We're going to add them to the list 271 00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:30,920 at the end of structures that have been modified and have them re-reviewed at the end. 272 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:42,220 So that leads us 22 from the people who are online and in the audience are you 273 00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:55,360 here which property are you here for I think it's only 21 we took we took one 274 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,660 of them off because it was already designated there's 21 we talked about 275 00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:05,680 324 Scotland Road. Yeah. Because there's some question about recent modifications. Yeah, 276 00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:11,280 but there was another one that we took off before we sent it out. Because it was already 277 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,160 designated. It was a key contributing property. Is that what it was on this list? Yes, and 278 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:21,340 I don't remember which one it is. Oh, okay. Well, maybe by the time we get to a vote, 279 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:28,080 you need to figure out which one it was. Well, the one on this list is on this list. 280 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,360 It won't be on that list, Karen. 281 00:16:30,940 --> 00:16:33,440 There was also one that was on the previous list 282 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,220 that we took off. 283 00:16:34,580 --> 00:16:37,300 I think it's only like 18 or 19, actually. 284 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,280 Oh, okay. 285 00:16:38,380 --> 00:16:42,340 The list you sent me has 22 when we took off the one. 286 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,180 I know that one we did on our previous list 287 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,520 and then the one we just took off 288 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,420 and then the one that was already designated. 289 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,580 I've got 22 that we're still doing. 290 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,340 I'll have to go back to my emails to see. 291 00:16:57,410 --> 00:16:58,210 Oh, you took that from that. 292 00:16:58,210 --> 00:17:05,510 22, right? Yeah, but this should have one less than that. 293 00:17:12,030 --> 00:17:29,610 This is a new process for us, so I'm sorry about that. We still haven't gotten it all down yet. This one, this is 22. Yeah. And the last one we took off. 294 00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:35,010 All right. Minus the one. I'm actually saying there's another one. 295 00:17:47,780 --> 00:17:54,480 112 Raymond is the one, so it would be 20. So 112 Raymond has already been designated. 296 00:17:54,860 --> 00:17:57,160 Already designated, okay. Got it. 297 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,300 All right, now we're down to 21. 298 00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:06,440 No, it was designated on our last group. 299 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,200 which 300 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:18,310 was the one that was a key contributing and I can probably look 301 00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:18,810 it up 302 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:29,580 yes yes yeah well I was going to just adjust councilman that we put 303 00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:33,560 together a presentation and I know there's only a couple people here but 304 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,800 it's important to them so I thought that we did and I figured this is probably 305 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,780 something that we're going to do you know before we get you know with new 306 00:18:40,780 --> 00:18:47,660 people right so could you Brian could you put up that that presentation yes sir 307 00:18:47,660 --> 00:18:50,400 doing it now can make 308 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:11,520 that any bigger 309 00:19:14,170 --> 00:19:17,870 that's not really readable from here I 310 00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:23,870 guess I'll have to make it Brian can you make that any bigger yes 311 00:19:26,110 --> 00:19:27,010 sir let's see 312 00:19:27,010 --> 00:19:29,270 if I could try something else by 313 00:19:31,450 --> 00:19:33,090 the way I have copies what 314 00:20:00,580 --> 00:20:01,260 was your address 315 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,500 We only have one Scotland on the list, so that's what it's like. 316 00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:18,710 Okay, great, thank you. 317 00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:25,970 Okay, so this is something that I expect that we will do for each of the presentations. 318 00:20:26,670 --> 00:20:33,190 We made the effort to put this together because a lot of people don't know how this process works 319 00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:36,930 or what the potential designation consequences are. 320 00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:39,710 So I think that this is hopefully will address 321 00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:42,170 some concerns and questions that might come up 322 00:20:42,170 --> 00:20:43,510 as we go through these hearings. 323 00:20:44,430 --> 00:20:48,630 So the historic preservation regulation 324 00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:51,010 is based upon the municipal land use law 325 00:20:51,550 --> 00:20:53,950 and a local ordinance that was adopted here 326 00:20:53,950 --> 00:20:56,630 first in 2012 and that amended in 2024. 327 00:20:57,550 --> 00:21:01,710 Our jurisdiction is that designated local landmarks 328 00:21:01,710 --> 00:21:04,510 are potentially subject to review by this commission. 329 00:21:05,730 --> 00:21:08,010 Any project that is on one of these properties 330 00:21:08,010 --> 00:21:11,330 that requires a zoning board of adjustment approval 331 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:14,930 for variances, that's one specific process 332 00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:16,590 and that's why you heard me ask the question 333 00:21:16,590 --> 00:21:18,890 in the last group about whether or not 334 00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:22,470 they needed a variance because if your project involves 335 00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:24,390 having to go to the zoning board of adjustment, 336 00:21:24,670 --> 00:21:26,870 then what happens is the zoning board of adjustment 337 00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:30,430 sends that application here and we provide advice. 338 00:21:30,430 --> 00:21:34,210 It's not a decision, we provide advice to the zoning board, 339 00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:36,910 just like the environmental commission or somebody else, 340 00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:38,730 as an advisory decision. 341 00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:41,710 Now, if it doesn't require a variance, 342 00:21:41,910 --> 00:21:42,990 like the one we just heard, 343 00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:45,410 then they're here for something, 344 00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:47,170 but they need a construction permit, 345 00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:50,470 then the building official tells them to come here 346 00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:52,690 for a certificate of appropriateness. 347 00:21:53,070 --> 00:21:54,670 The first thing we have to figure out 348 00:21:54,670 --> 00:21:57,010 is the project exempt. 349 00:21:57,850 --> 00:21:59,930 So, I think this is important 350 00:21:59,930 --> 00:22:04,150 because there are a number of things that once we determine what it is, it doesn't have to 351 00:22:04,150 --> 00:22:11,410 need any review at all. These ordinances do not regulate any interior work at all. Anything 352 00:22:11,410 --> 00:22:17,610 you're doing in the interior is near business. It also exempts exterior painting of existing 353 00:22:17,610 --> 00:22:24,610 painted surface, repairs to less than 25% of existing shingles, siding, roofing, etc., 354 00:22:24,610 --> 00:22:30,290 the same style of materials and repair of existing doors and windows of then kind material. 355 00:22:30,570 --> 00:22:35,470 All that is an example. If it's not exempt, then we look to see whether or not it qualifies 356 00:22:35,470 --> 00:22:42,150 as minor work. And minor work is replacement of a roof using material compatible with 357 00:22:42,150 --> 00:22:49,390 architectural design, replacement of over 25% of shingles, siding, etc. while maintaining 358 00:22:49,390 --> 00:22:54,930 in the integrity, replacement of windows and doors, minor work, and painting a previously 359 00:22:54,930 --> 00:22:57,590 unpainted exterior surface like brick or stone. 360 00:22:58,090 --> 00:23:02,230 So if you're paving over brick or stone, you need to come here for minor work. 361 00:23:02,370 --> 00:23:04,750 If you're paving over existing paving, you don't come here at all. 362 00:23:05,650 --> 00:23:08,890 If it's a minor work, you don't actually have to come to one of these meetings. 363 00:23:09,890 --> 00:23:14,390 If we deem it to be minor work, we have a subcommittee that visits and determines 364 00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:17,370 if the work will harm the historic character and integrity of the structure. 365 00:23:17,370 --> 00:23:21,510 And if it won't, then the subcommittee issues a minor work permit. 366 00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:24,930 If it's not minor work, then it's major work. 367 00:23:25,010 --> 00:23:27,350 And that means you have to come here for a hearing like you just heard. 368 00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:33,030 We take testimony and we decide whether to grant the certificate of appropriateness. 369 00:23:33,550 --> 00:23:38,210 You must obtain a certificate before the construction official can issue the permit. 370 00:23:39,610 --> 00:23:44,410 The standards for the certificate and the minor work review, they're in the ordinance. 371 00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:49,030 I'm not going to repeat them all now, but generally speaking, will the OR project negatively 372 00:23:49,030 --> 00:23:54,050 impact the historic and architectural significance of the property or the historic district? 373 00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:56,330 And that's really the test. 374 00:23:56,550 --> 00:23:57,650 That's really what we're here to do. 375 00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:59,150 Now what are we doing here now? 376 00:23:59,650 --> 00:24:05,450 This is designation because one of the things that the ordinance directs us to do is to 377 00:24:05,450 --> 00:24:09,330 recommend to the council properties that are worthy of historic designation. 378 00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:14,830 Right now, properties that are located in the Montrose Park Historic District. 379 00:24:15,550 --> 00:24:22,490 If you go over this survey and look at any of it, there are properties in there that are called key contributing, contributing, non-contributing. 380 00:24:23,010 --> 00:24:25,590 If you are key contributing, you're already regulated. 381 00:24:25,790 --> 00:24:27,910 We're not going to be designating you because you're already regulated. 382 00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:35,690 In 2024, the ordinance expanded the potential designation to properties identified as contributing also. 383 00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:42,550 And all of this comes from a cultural survey of Essex County that was done in 1986, which 384 00:24:42,550 --> 00:24:49,350 looked at each one of the properties and identified, by the way, I should mention that there were 385 00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:54,530 other criteria by which, under the federal rules, that a property can be considered 386 00:24:54,530 --> 00:24:56,990 to be historic in a landmark. 387 00:24:57,590 --> 00:25:02,290 For example, if an important person lived there, if an important event happened there, 388 00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:02,910 things like that. 389 00:25:02,910 --> 00:25:08,290 that we as sitting here, I don't believe we're aware of any properties in this district 390 00:25:08,290 --> 00:25:09,330 that qualify for that. 391 00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:11,810 That could change as we go along, but we're not aware of any of that. 392 00:25:11,890 --> 00:25:17,010 So that means that the only criterion of the Department of Interior standard that applies 393 00:25:17,010 --> 00:25:20,970 here is the one related to the architecture of the structure. 394 00:25:21,410 --> 00:25:27,070 And that's why the survey has a paragraph or so that explains what the historical 395 00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:31,490 character of the property is and identifies it in all the cases that we're here 396 00:25:31,490 --> 00:25:35,950 for tonight, identified as contributing on that basis. 397 00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:43,350 So the focus of this hearing, really, is whether or not the home continues to maintain what 398 00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:47,610 the consultant said was historic character in 1986. 399 00:25:49,570 --> 00:25:53,590 With all respect, this is not a hearing to discuss whether or not historic property 400 00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:57,070 should be regulated or property rights, et cetera. 401 00:25:57,490 --> 00:25:58,670 That's kind of already in the audience. 402 00:25:58,670 --> 00:26:04,710 What we're here to decide is whether or not the property in its current format continues 403 00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:08,430 to be historically important because of its architecture. 404 00:26:09,010 --> 00:26:14,090 Next steps, we recommend to the Council that the zoning ordinance should be amended to 405 00:26:14,090 --> 00:26:18,630 include whatever properties we recommend as designated landmarks. 406 00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:22,530 The Council then proposes an ordinance amendment to designate them. 407 00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:26,930 That ordinance, like any other zoning ordinance amendment, is referred to the Planning Board 408 00:26:26,930 --> 00:26:29,230 for review for consistency with the master plan, 409 00:26:29,730 --> 00:26:31,250 but it's important to realize that's really going 410 00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:34,370 to be a perfunctory step because all of the properties 411 00:26:34,370 --> 00:26:36,030 that we're going to talk about here 412 00:26:36,030 --> 00:26:38,270 and in future meetings are already identified 413 00:26:38,270 --> 00:26:41,690 in the master plan is potentially worthy of designation 414 00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:43,790 but still subject to this process. 415 00:26:43,950 --> 00:26:45,550 So that's going to be pretty routine. 416 00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:47,510 And so then it goes back to the council. 417 00:26:48,010 --> 00:26:49,950 The council holds a public hearing 418 00:26:49,950 --> 00:26:52,430 and adopts the ordinance designating what properties 419 00:26:52,430 --> 00:26:53,770 the council chooses to designate. 420 00:26:54,810 --> 00:27:00,550 that's it that's what we're doing and of course the homeowner would have an 421 00:27:00,550 --> 00:27:07,990 opportunity to speak tonight and and in front of the council when it's on when 422 00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:13,760 they have the public hearing on the ordinance okay you're the one sitting 423 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,840 here so do you have anything to say okay 424 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:18,700 Okay, fabulous. 425 00:27:21,660 --> 00:27:22,960 Chief Vapaba, who's online? 426 00:27:24,790 --> 00:27:28,310 So Michael, are you objecting to your house being put on? 427 00:27:28,770 --> 00:27:29,250 Oh, okay. 428 00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:30,290 Great, thank you. 429 00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:34,010 Michael is a longtime member of the zoning board of Adjustment. 430 00:27:34,430 --> 00:27:34,870 Oh, I did not. 431 00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:35,730 When I first went on. 432 00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:37,170 So you knew all about the zoning warden, 433 00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:38,610 so you didn't have, I didn't need to tell you that part. 434 00:27:38,730 --> 00:27:39,490 Okay, I'm sorry about that. 435 00:27:39,730 --> 00:27:40,330 No, you're right. 436 00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:44,310 I represent the planning board, not the zoning board. 437 00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:46,090 Okay. 438 00:27:46,150 --> 00:27:46,830 Is there anybody online? 439 00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:47,690 We 440 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,520 have one attendee online, 441 00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:57,580 Maria, please raise your hand. 442 00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,620 Chatter your mic is off. 443 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:01,540 Sorry. 444 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,880 We have one attendee online, Maria. 445 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,700 If you would like to speak, Maria, please raise your hand so we can elevate you. 446 00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:19,400 Okay, Brian, please elevate Maria. 447 00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:24,580 Yes, ma'am, Maria, you have been elevated. 448 00:28:25,060 --> 00:28:27,320 Please unmute your mic and turn on your camera. 449 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:27,840 Maria 450 00:28:38,270 --> 00:28:40,030 is now joining hi 451 00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:00,340 Maria what what property are you my address is 274 452 00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:05,500 Charlton Avenue you know what's your last name Maria 453 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,120 I don't have any questions. I just wanted to just say that I'm online and I'm participating. 454 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:11,560 I'm sorry. I missed it. 455 00:29:11,740 --> 00:29:12,060 M what? 456 00:29:13,420 --> 00:29:15,160 M E N. 457 00:29:15,540 --> 00:29:17,520 E I L L Y. 458 00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:20,780 Thank you. Okay. Go ahead. 459 00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:23,620 I don't have any questions. 460 00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:26,660 I just wanted to just say that I'm online and I'm participating. 461 00:29:26,660 --> 00:29:31,060 Thank you. Do you object to us designating your house? 462 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,880 I do not. Oh, okay, great. 463 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,840 In that case, we can just read all these things. 464 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,420 Yeah, I think that we don't need to read the descriptions. I think we can read the problems. 465 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:51,680 So let's make clear what it is that, so the record is clear about what it is that we're relying upon. 466 00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:59,660 So, the document that I have in front of me, that you have in front of me, are the sections 467 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,780 Of the 1986 Essex County Cultural Survey for the properties that are on the agenda this evening. Is that right? 468 00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:22,420 Yes. Okay. And so the, those, that document includes the address, the block and lot number, a description of the property in some cases, 469 00:30:22,420 --> 00:30:28,860 This is, in some cases, not only including the architectural character of the property, 470 00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:35,060 but also some information in some cases about prior ownership, et cetera, and then it includes 471 00:30:35,060 --> 00:30:37,000 the names of the current owner. 472 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:47,520 So what you'll be voting on here eventually, after I just read the addresses, is based 473 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:56,860 based upon this document, whether or not you were recommending that these properties be recommended to the Council for designation as local owners. 474 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:16,500 Okay. All right. So the properties are 127 Ralston Avenue, 130 Ralston Avenue, 137 Ralston Avenue, 144 Ralston Avenue, 147 Ralston Avenue, 158 Raymond Avenue, 228 Raymond Avenue, 475 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:27,060 111 Terrell Avenue, 134 Terrell Avenue, 135 Terrell Avenue, 139 Terrell Avenue, 147 Terrell 476 00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:35,220 Avenue, 155 Terrell Avenue, 262 Charlton Avenue, 273 Charleston Avenue. 477 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,360 Are you ready to know what he's down? 478 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:37,660 I'll give this to you later. 479 00:31:40,650 --> 00:31:48,430 273 Charleston Avenue, 274 Charleston Avenue, 274 Charleston Avenue, 274 Charleston 480 00:31:48,430 --> 00:32:12,200 186 Charlton Avenue 136 Irving Avenue 151 Irving Avenue and that's it I would also for 142 Irving 481 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:18,860 Erving Avenue, I would also like to read into the record a statement 482 00:32:21,130 --> 00:32:25,190 of the owner who asked 483 00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:31,450 for some clarification on what the ordinance was and then said, we have reviewed and support 484 00:32:31,450 --> 00:32:37,870 the designation of our property at 142 Erving Avenue as a local landmark, we will not attend 485 00:32:37,870 --> 00:32:42,490 the hearing due to travel, but please add our support to the public, many thanks. 486 00:32:42,490 --> 00:32:51,230 that's Mr. Mariel and Ms. Miller correct correct I think you're ready for a 487 00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:55,930 motion that case can I have a motion to designate denoted properties as local 488 00:32:55,930 --> 00:33:04,770 landmarks I'll make a motion I have a second second I have a roll call please 489 00:33:04,770 --> 00:33:15,100 check yes mr. Wright yes miss Rosson yes miss Crawford yes miss Marlowe yes 490 00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:16,300 Yes, and Mr. Levine. 491 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:16,700 Yes. 492 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:17,960 Real phone. 493 00:33:18,380 --> 00:33:19,020 I mean, motion carries. 494 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:20,520 Thank you. 495 00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:22,600 Okay. 496 00:33:26,610 --> 00:33:28,550 So that takes us out of new business. 497 00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:32,460 I'll leave you a message. 498 00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:33,400 I know. 499 00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:35,320 Okay. 500 00:33:37,140 --> 00:33:39,340 Old business, we don't have any. 501 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,000 Discussions follow up. 502 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,640 Is there a village council report? 503 00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:54,810 I have two items. 504 00:33:55,030 --> 00:33:55,790 Thank you so much. 505 00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:58,570 Can we talk about the next steps? 506 00:33:58,570 --> 00:34:04,830 because now we're at a group of, I guess it's 28 plus the 10, 8 from before 10? 507 00:34:04,990 --> 00:34:06,530 No, I think it's 6. 508 00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:10,890 So now we're almost at 30, so I guess the next step, we'll go to the Village Council, 509 00:34:10,910 --> 00:34:11,830 so we'll find a date. 510 00:34:12,630 --> 00:34:13,730 Do we send an email? 511 00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:18,170 Are you sending an email or a letter to all of the people that say you're now moving 512 00:34:18,170 --> 00:34:19,850 on and you need a date from the Council? 513 00:34:21,130 --> 00:34:23,190 What's the next step and what that process will be? 514 00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:24,950 Yeah, I don't know that we figured that out. 515 00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:28,050 I don't know that that's in the ordinance, I didn't look honestly, but I would think 516 00:34:28,050 --> 00:34:33,430 that once you have a date, then we should notify them. 517 00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:35,970 Okay, yeah, I'll send an email out to the council 518 00:34:35,970 --> 00:34:39,330 to find out when in the fall we would do those homes. 519 00:34:39,650 --> 00:34:43,730 And if we can have a solid list of the ones from today, 520 00:34:43,830 --> 00:34:47,370 plus I can pour that, if you could put it on one, 521 00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:48,030 that would be helpful. 522 00:34:48,450 --> 00:34:48,530 Sure. 523 00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:55,170 Number two, I did ask Mr. Grinchy, 524 00:34:55,170 --> 00:34:58,190 if the process is in place for demolitions, 525 00:34:58,650 --> 00:35:00,690 because a number of years ago we had said anytime 526 00:35:00,690 --> 00:35:02,590 that there was a home being demolished, 527 00:35:02,890 --> 00:35:05,450 that we would know, just so we can capture pictures. 528 00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:07,470 So that process is still in place. 529 00:35:10,610 --> 00:35:14,670 But there was an ordinance for 99 boats that you guys, 530 00:35:14,990 --> 00:35:16,630 which is the one that's next to the post office. 531 00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:18,670 That is not being demolished, 532 00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:23,170 but if you look at the council resolutions, 533 00:35:23,170 --> 00:35:28,790 There was a turning off of the sewer for that which my assumption is in the future something's gonna happen 534 00:35:29,830 --> 00:35:33,890 I don't know when it could be like 10 years. Yeah, it's insignificant as repair. It is. Yeah 535 00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:35,270 I know they're having a hard time 536 00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:39,610 So I just want to make sure that you guys were aware that the process for mr. 537 00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:43,770 Grinchy is still in place where he will notify us if there are demolitions coming up 538 00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:51,550 No, what we have said is 539 00:35:51,550 --> 00:35:56,410 is, he would tell us of any building that was being demolished so that we could take 540 00:35:56,410 --> 00:36:00,970 a picture of it, not necessarily in the mattress. So that was, I think that was about three years 541 00:36:00,970 --> 00:36:02,790 ago that we had that discussion. 542 00:36:03,690 --> 00:36:10,830 Is there anything we can do for that property to prevent it from just demolition by neglect, 543 00:36:11,010 --> 00:36:12,610 which is essentially what seems to be happening? 544 00:36:15,370 --> 00:36:21,810 Well, your ordinance that we did in 2024 has a demolition by neglect provision in 545 00:36:21,810 --> 00:36:30,450 right? And if I recall correctly, they either really on anybody's initiative but 546 00:36:30,450 --> 00:36:35,510 certainly on your initiative you could communicate to the building department 547 00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:39,410 that there are obviously code violations there and they should take those 548 00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:44,930 steps necessary to address them. Sounds like he's kind of doing it already but 549 00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:50,450 I could be wrong. I think it's been happening for two years now. So if it's 550 00:36:50,450 --> 00:36:58,090 So my goal is not to call out bad property in general, it's just more of a larger look 551 00:36:58,090 --> 00:36:58,750 at outside of it. 552 00:36:58,750 --> 00:37:00,530 Right, no, I totally understand that. 553 00:37:01,610 --> 00:37:03,310 But I don't want the property owner to have it. 554 00:37:03,390 --> 00:37:03,990 That's continuing. 555 00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:08,630 I haven't driven by there recently, but I did take some photos actually of it even a year 556 00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:10,710 plus ago when I was sort of concerned. 557 00:37:10,910 --> 00:37:11,590 I know it's a sale, so. 558 00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:13,350 I walked by. 559 00:37:13,530 --> 00:37:17,590 Yes, I know someone made an offer on it and it was turned down from what I heard 560 00:37:17,590 --> 00:37:20,770 And it sounds based on the condition of the building like it was a fair offer 561 00:37:22,070 --> 00:37:25,850 Well, it's up to you. I mean if it's the it's the will of the Commission 562 00:37:25,850 --> 00:37:32,570 I can write a simple letter to mr. Grinchy that says we're concerned about the conditions on this property and under them 563 00:37:32,570 --> 00:37:34,790 it appears to be demolition by neglect and 564 00:37:35,710 --> 00:37:42,050 We'd you know hope that you will take steps necessary to enforce the code. I 565 00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:43,430 Would be in favor of that. Okay 566 00:37:44,290 --> 00:37:45,790 You see the address again? 567 00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:48,840 I'm sorry? 568 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:50,720 99 votes. 569 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:51,340 99 votes. 570 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:52,620 What was that happening? 571 00:37:54,740 --> 00:37:54,960 Okay. 572 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,900 I would also like to know that Mr. 573 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,680 Linser who is filling in for Ms. 574 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:09,380 Petrus is also discussing changing the definition of 575 00:38:10,220 --> 00:38:10,940 demolition. 576 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:12,680 I know. 577 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:13,580 No. 578 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,580 Just demolition, period. 579 00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:20,180 because it was specific to a house on Prospect Street, 580 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,180 which was, they said they were renovating the house, 581 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,260 they knocked it all down, except one little corner piece, 582 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,500 and then they built the whole big giant house around it, 583 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:33,760 and then knocked that down, 584 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,220 and they pulled out the whole, 585 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:35,860 this absolutely- 586 00:38:35,860 --> 00:38:37,660 That's that beautiful one that I saw online. 587 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:38,960 I just happened to be online, 588 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:40,980 and I said, where did this house on Prospect come from? 589 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,260 Because it's definitely out of character. 590 00:38:42,460 --> 00:38:43,940 It's completely out of character. 591 00:38:43,940 --> 00:38:51,840 It's they replaced a 2,000 square foot house with a it's I think it's going to be 6,700 square feet 592 00:38:52,840 --> 00:39:00,280 It has forward-facing garages, which is the only the only one on process on process at 331 593 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,200 Garth over by Garfield, okay, interesting 594 00:39:06,980 --> 00:39:08,740 And the guy built it 595 00:39:08,740 --> 00:39:14,840 but apparently this guy builds the shell and then tries to sell it before he finishes it. 596 00:39:15,460 --> 00:39:21,080 Yeah, that's not what it looks like. That's the AI version of what it's going to be when it's finished. 597 00:39:23,820 --> 00:39:28,800 So it's a non-conforming lot. It's not wide enough. 598 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,240 It's going to be tough, but... 599 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:31,560 So Ms. Patras is going to look 600 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:32,660 at the demolition... 601 00:39:32,660 --> 00:39:35,760 Well, I think Mr. Grinch is 602 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,980 pretty keen on just pushing it 603 00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:39,640 through, and I don't think on 604 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,760 this one that it's going to be 605 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,260 reversed, but going forward, I 606 00:39:46,260 --> 00:39:48,100 think we need to look at what 607 00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:51,040 they called demolition, because 608 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,480 like I said, they pulled out 609 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:53,760 the whole foundation, put in a 610 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:54,740 whole new foundation. 611 00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:56,520 There's nothing left of the 612 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:04,560 old house. You could argue that it was existing, non-compliant, but it's still the intensity 613 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,720 is certainly a lot different from when it was a smaller house to what it is right now. 614 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,280 It just kind of got pushed through by the building department even after it was pointed 615 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,460 out that it shouldn't be. 616 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:23,580 There was nothing anybody has 617 00:40:26,940 --> 00:40:28,140 something that was in discussion. 618 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:31,660 Yeah. 619 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:38,560 I'm from a council perspective. I don't have anything else on this. Do you want to talk about the 620 00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:45,280 The subcommittee meeting with the two vendors the two I was gonna leave that up to when you guys get to it 621 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,320 Oh, you have to do it. Sorry. Mr. Right. Sorry. He got it from here. I did my email 622 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:56,780 Okay, before we do that, let's just go through the other ones on the subcommittee stuff 623 00:40:56,780 --> 00:41:04,880 So, 257 Warwick Avenue, minor work involving repairing, replacing elements of the existing 624 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,940 wraparound porch. 625 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,460 David and I did an inspection. 626 00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:15,820 We met with the contractor and they did a beautiful job on it, and we gave them the 627 00:41:15,820 --> 00:41:17,240 okay to go ahead with that. 628 00:41:19,020 --> 00:41:25,500 351 Terrell put in a request for minor work, they're replacing the existing entry 629 00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:33,180 door and a side door. I got back to the, I guess it's a company that does permitting 630 00:41:33,180 --> 00:41:40,200 for the window and door company and said I needed more information because they gave us a whole 631 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,940 bunch of pictures of what's there now but absolutely no information on what they're 632 00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:49,660 putting in. So they said they were going to follow up and give us some more information 633 00:41:49,660 --> 00:41:56,610 on that they haven't done that yet so inspection or 634 00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:06,450 that brings us to the 635 00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:13,330 prospect street surveying process. David do you want to? Well council member 636 00:42:13,330 --> 00:42:21,900 Jones has very kindly proposed a process to to get the ball rolling on this 637 00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:28,120 survey and initial stage would be consultation with a couple of historical 638 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:38,780 survey firms that are doing work in our neighborhood, neighboring towns, and she 639 00:42:38,780 --> 00:42:45,400 circulated this proposal a couple days ago and I can't add much to it at this 640 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:53,680 point but I can see our next action will be to figure out some scheduling so we 641 00:42:53,680 --> 00:43:03,680 can get our town administrators and delegation from this commission in informal meetings 642 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:15,200 with these consultants to help us craft our own proposal, our own RFP for going ahead with 643 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:19,700 I'd like to just interject a question. 644 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:31,180 We have also been addressing the subject of the 1985-86 county cultural survey. 645 00:43:32,660 --> 00:43:39,040 I understand that some of that information is 40 years old and therefore out of date 646 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,760 and we also are facing a process to update that information. 647 00:43:43,940 --> 00:43:44,980 Am I right about that? 648 00:43:45,420 --> 00:43:49,100 Well, what we're doing is, when I select the houses, 649 00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:51,660 I'm looking for ones that match the descriptions. 650 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,660 And then at the end of that, anything that's been altered, 651 00:43:56,060 --> 00:43:59,240 then we'll have whoever we choose to come in 652 00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:02,160 and do a new report on those. 653 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,280 Okay, so you will be identifying some properties 654 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,420 So a mismatch with their description in the old survey. 655 00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:14,840 I just won't select them for designation 656 00:44:15,180 --> 00:44:16,980 and then we'll leave them till the end. 657 00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:17,880 Right. 658 00:44:19,540 --> 00:44:21,380 Should we have this on our mind 659 00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:23,700 as we're talking to these consulting firms 660 00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:27,820 about the Prospect Street, which is a new survey. 661 00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:33,720 I think the question is whether or not the scope of work. 662 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:34,900 We'll have both kinds of, 663 00:44:35,580 --> 00:44:42,580 We'll have those two processes going and we'll figure out how to structure that one week. 664 00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:46,460 Yeah, I would suggest that if you're, that, so you don't have to do it twice. 665 00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:47,200 Yeah. 666 00:44:47,380 --> 00:44:53,740 That the scope of work for, for the RFP would include this review of properties that need 667 00:44:53,740 --> 00:44:57,540 to have a second look because the potential changes since 1986. 668 00:44:57,540 --> 00:44:59,900 I hope we just add that to the scruffle work. 669 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:06,580 Can I also, I know our focus, our next focus is prospect, and then Montress would 670 00:45:06,580 --> 00:45:10,420 have her homes, but I think if there's, I think whenever you look at this book you're 671 00:45:10,420 --> 00:45:14,140 going to look at like a group of homes. If there's others that fall outside of 672 00:45:14,140 --> 00:45:18,000 those two neighborhoods that you think should be looked at as well, I would 673 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,520 include those. So it should say you're gonna give them a list of this many 674 00:45:23,260 --> 00:45:27,140 places. You're gonna have a set list of homes that they're gonna look at, but 675 00:45:27,140 --> 00:45:28,700 that doesn't necessarily have to be all of Prospect. 676 00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:32,400 Because I think you guys have designated homes in mind 677 00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:34,020 that you wanted to look at again, right? 678 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:34,660 It's not everywhere. 679 00:45:36,380 --> 00:45:39,260 Well, I think what we're gonna do is 680 00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:42,220 we're gonna do the mantras with the ones, 681 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,620 these guys will have to look at some of them, 682 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,380 not many of them, and then Prospect Street. 683 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:49,940 Outside of those districts, 684 00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:53,920 I don't think we've decided what we're doing yet. 685 00:45:53,920 --> 00:46:01,020 So, for example, there's a proposed Clark Street, but I think, do we have to, do they 686 00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:06,600 have to have like a vote to decide whether they want to be a historic district or something? 687 00:46:06,860 --> 00:46:11,820 I saw that for some other time, 50% or more had to agree to. 688 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,340 But we could designate individual homes. 689 00:46:16,980 --> 00:46:26,200 But keep in mind that if the district or the homes are not in the master plan then you 690 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:34,140 have to either amend the master plan or the council can vote, a majority vote to approve 691 00:46:34,140 --> 00:46:36,400 and will not withstand the fact that it's not in the master plan. 692 00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:41,640 There are some mid-century houses I think that we should probably also be including. 693 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:49,080 Yeah, but I think it's just order and we're doing, we're doing mantros, then we're going to do prospects. 694 00:46:49,180 --> 00:46:56,460 Yeah, just if anyone knows of any to sort of start working on a, you know, a tentative list so that we don't have to track them all down. 695 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:04,140 It might, it might be just from your common knowledge that there were properties that, you know, they have to be designated first before you can regulate them. 696 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,040 So if there's one that's coming down next week, it's too late, right? 697 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:14,940 But if there are particularly important properties that you think should be designated to protect them in the future 698 00:47:14,940 --> 00:47:20,620 so we don't have a situation like we had over on Ridge Road, Ridgewood Road, 699 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,540 then you probably start making that list. 700 00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:31,140 For purposes of informal consultation with these survey firms, 701 00:47:31,940 --> 00:47:38,920 should we try and at least have an idea of the number of properties that they might be dealing with 702 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,420 so that they have a sense of whether this is a big project or... 703 00:47:43,420 --> 00:47:47,800 I think we'd have that number for the Prospect Street Historic District Town. 704 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,880 I think I have to find out if they're going to do them like, you know, dollars per house 705 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,700 or did we get a quantity discount or what? I don't know. 706 00:47:56,700 --> 00:48:00,660 Yeah, well, that's definitely part of it and we have to know what it's gonna cost 707 00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:04,000 Jacob, I think you're right. I think that was 708 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,820 That number was in my memo 709 00:48:06,820 --> 00:48:07,820 I 710 00:48:09,870 --> 00:48:17,010 just want to bring up the 99 boats again. That is not in Montrose 711 00:48:17,630 --> 00:48:25,170 No, it is the 99 both Street is not in Montrose. So it's it's not part of the Montrose Park district 712 00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:27,710 So then it's not regulated. Yeah 713 00:48:28,750 --> 00:48:30,070 And I think it's also, I don't know, 714 00:48:30,130 --> 00:48:31,210 is that a commercial building? 715 00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:32,130 I believe so. 716 00:48:32,250 --> 00:48:34,870 So it would not go to the Port of Adjustment either 717 00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:37,310 for changes to it or go to the plan? 718 00:48:37,550 --> 00:48:39,070 Well, I can't write them a letter 719 00:48:39,070 --> 00:48:41,510 about demolition by neglect of a house that's not regulated. 720 00:48:41,770 --> 00:48:43,310 Right, it's not, I don't think it is. 721 00:48:43,310 --> 00:48:43,870 All right, everyone. 722 00:48:46,540 --> 00:48:50,380 The reason I looked it up because the demolition 723 00:48:50,380 --> 00:48:54,020 by neglect says that in a district, 724 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,960 a historic, an officially designated historic landmark 725 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,020 or contributing structure within a historic district 726 00:49:03,020 --> 00:49:07,440 shall not be allowed to be deteriorated by neglect. 727 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,060 So I wanted to see if 728 00:49:11,420 --> 00:49:13,260 it was contributing 729 00:49:13,260 --> 00:49:13,940 and it's- 730 00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:14,660 It's not in the role. 731 00:49:14,820 --> 00:49:15,600 It's not in the role. 732 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,320 Yeah, it's not in the district, yep. 733 00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:22,560 Okay, anybody else have anything for the subcommittee? 734 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:23,400 No? 735 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:25,380 Public comment? 736 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:26,560 I just want to mention, 737 00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:28,520 those of you that weren't here, 738 00:49:28,580 --> 00:49:29,760 you're going to get a memo from me 739 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:39,580 about proposed federal regulations that will significantly curtail gut of the Section 106 740 00:49:39,580 --> 00:49:45,320 process that the administration has proposed, and there'll be an opportunity. 741 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:51,600 It hasn't gone to the Federal Register yet, but when it does, there'll be a great human 742 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:58,000 cry across the country, so you might want to maybe even participate in that comment. 743 00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:01,640 I'm sending it out to, you know, all the people I represent. 744 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,460 So now I have another question for you, William. 745 00:50:07,180 --> 00:50:11,860 So now we've done what we need to do for the houses that we've done. 746 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,660 Do I have to, if I come up with another list, and I guess I can do another 20, 747 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:26,520 because obviously it wasn't that bad, do I have to wait and give that to the 748 00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:30,110 commission first 749 00:50:30,110 --> 00:50:35,490 And say this is what I want to designate and then notice or can I come up with a list to give it to Jetty? 750 00:50:35,770 --> 00:50:36,650 It's a can you notice? 751 00:50:37,410 --> 00:50:40,810 I mean, I'm just picking. I mean you you want to give 752 00:50:41,830 --> 00:50:44,990 Chairman's discretion to pick the next list or do you want to see the list first? 753 00:50:47,820 --> 00:50:52,260 I think the committee had to approve doesn't the committee have to the Commission have to approve? 754 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:58,220 I mean we're doing an action. Yeah, but I mean we're doing all of them. It's just the order in which we're doing that I 755 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,080 I mean, would that require a vote in a meeting or is this something we can just do in an email? 756 00:51:04,980 --> 00:51:06,100 I was thinking that too. 757 00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:09,840 I was like, maybe what we do is give them to Jettie. 758 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:16,380 Jettie sends out an email to a group, you know, just don't communicate between each other on it, right? 759 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,580 But what I would do is we can work on this. 760 00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:27,200 But in the email to say, if you have any concerns about any property on this list, you know, let Jettie know, let me know, and we can do it. 761 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,880 I would have come up with a list but I figured this would be such a long and tiresome meeting 762 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,620 that I wanted to see how it went before I did it and nobody had any complaints. 763 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:37,780 Thank you. 764 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:38,500 Right. 765 00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:43,780 I just feel like we should say we're going to designate all other contributing properties 766 00:51:43,780 --> 00:51:46,280 at the next meeting and how everybody comes. 767 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,420 I would wait on that because it'll be interesting to see who shows up at the council meeting. 768 00:51:56,620 --> 00:52:02,620 I mean they can always go to the council because there's public comment at the council for the second reading. Yeah, I'm playing. 769 00:52:04,020 --> 00:52:05,680 I thought we put that in the letter. 770 00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:08,880 No, you can't deny them their right to speak before the council. 771 00:52:13,770 --> 00:52:19,930 Oh, actually it's like a court. You don't go to if you don't show up the court, you can't go to the appeals court and say, well, I don't agree with what they said. 772 00:52:19,930 --> 00:52:24,050 Except that this is not an appeals court. This is this is a de novo review. 773 00:52:29,650 --> 00:52:31,430 I will not be here next month. 774 00:52:32,070 --> 00:52:34,990 I need some surgery, which you can talk about while flying. 775 00:52:35,310 --> 00:52:39,570 But so I will, I'm actually encouraged by what happened here tonight 776 00:52:39,570 --> 00:52:41,870 because if somebody else is going to fill in for me, 777 00:52:42,330 --> 00:52:46,190 maybe it's not going to be as traumatic as we thought it would be, 778 00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:47,170 but we'll figure out. 779 00:52:47,630 --> 00:52:51,550 One of my other associates who does these questions for me. 780 00:52:51,930 --> 00:52:54,250 I mean, in the beginning, I'm trying to pick houses 781 00:52:54,250 --> 00:52:56,690 that there's no way that somebody can come back 782 00:52:56,690 --> 00:52:59,550 and say, hey, that's not architecturally significant. 783 00:53:02,370 --> 00:53:02,570 OK. 784 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:07,500 Motion to adjourn. 785 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:09,320 Second. 786 00:53:10,660 --> 00:53:11,560 All in favor? 787 00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:12,160 Aye. 788 00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:12,480 Aye. 789 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:13,220 OK. 790 00:53:13,340 --> 00:53:14,000 Here goes the gavel.