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There we go. Do I need to start over for

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the tape?

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Anyway, um

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good afternoon everybody.

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Uh, this is a regular meeting of the

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Princeton Historic Preservation

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Commission being held on August 25th at

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5:00 PM in the main building in the main

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meeting room of the of the Princeton

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Municipal Building at 400 Witherspoon

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Street. Pursuant to section 13 of the

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open public meetings act, adequate

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notice and time of in place of this

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meeting has been noticed by transmitting

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a copy of the agenda to the Princeton

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packet town topics times of Trenton and

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by filing a copy with the clerk of

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Princeton, posting on the municipal

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website in the center

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and posting on the official bulletin

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board at the Princeton Municipal Complex

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here at 400 Witherspoon Great.

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Sarah, could we please take the role?

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» Miss Satderfield is joining from Zoom.

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Can I get a here,

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>> here, here, here, here, here, here.

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>> Adam will fix that echo, but thank you.

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[snorts]

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>> Uh, Mr. Shatskin is absent.

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» Miss Howard

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>> here. Miss Capazolei

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here. Miss Freriedman is absent. Miss

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Croll is absent. Miss Kosnikova is

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absent. Chair Sher

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>> here.

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>> We have quorum.

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>> Thank you very much.

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So we usually start our meeting with um

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any announcements.

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>> The design guidelines uh public comment

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period ended yesterday. I am reviewing

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them, compiling them and we should get

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any major updates to the uh guidelines

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review committee and our consultant for

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any changes shortly and there will be a

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presentation to council on September

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14th for the

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>> very interesting. Do you have um a sense

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of how many people submitted comments?

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» We definitely had more sort of

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conversations at the public presentation

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than submitted them in writing, I would

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say.

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>> Right. And for the audience, we you and

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I both wrote up the uh

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>> Yes.

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>> to be in the list of things that will be

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considered when you're going over all of

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it. And my understanding is what happens

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next and Sarah you can correct me if I'm

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wrong is that the committee who worked

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with the [snorts] consultant on this for

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about a year will um be called to

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reconvene and to go over the the

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comments and to then give feedback to

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the consultant about where we go, how we

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tie this up and and get the product done

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and ready for um final distribution and and use.

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Did you something we're going to add or

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>> I Yes, I I'm going to summarize the

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comments and send them out to everybody

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to see if we need to meet again. If

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there's any major outstanding items we

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need to discuss and revise um or if

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there are things we have identified that

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can be

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>> discussed for future projects

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>> and maybe something we don't need to

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revise now.

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And that's it's kind of up to us as the committee.

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>> Very good.

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All right. Um, normally we review the minutes next. Um,

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>> has everyone had a chance to look at

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them? And is there any input or comment?

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>> Um, I think the minutes look fine and

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I'll make a motion to approve. Second.

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>> I second.

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Okay, Sarah, when you're ready,

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>> roll call. Uh,

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>> Miss Soldderfield,

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>> yes.

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>> Miss Howard?

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>> Yes.

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>> Miss Capazolei?

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>> Yes.

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>> Chair Sher?

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>> Yes.

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>> Minutes have passed.

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>> Was Miss Satderfield at the last

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meeting?

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>> She read them.

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>> Okay, I read them.

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>> Awesome. Thanks.

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» Okay.

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So, we will move to the applications.

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Um, first off is uh 61 Lee Avenue. If

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you want to come up and sit at the

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table,

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» joining us is our liaison. Um, Leighton

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Nulan.

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Okay. You want to get them established?

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>> Hey, will you both be testifying or

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discussing the application?

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>> Okay. So, I'm just

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>> I'm sorry.

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» Press the button.

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>> Okay. Um All right. Well, I can swear

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you both in and if she um wants to

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testify, then I can swear her in as

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well. So, Um,

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>> and will Jiva be giving testimony or is

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it just you?

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>> Um, yes. Say yes.

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>> Yes. So, can you wait a second?

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>> Yeah.

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>> Thank you.

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For those of you in the audience, we are

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excited that our um

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>> later down in the agenda, you'll see

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that we're going to get a um courtesy

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review from the people associated with

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the Princeton Battlefield Park on the

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progress of what's being done there. And

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we hope that people will um stick around

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if they can.

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Yes,

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this picture.

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Can you hear me? No,

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>> tell just tell Cecilia that I can't come

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today. Don't tell her I'm at a meeting

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and tell her that I do want to be partly

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want to participate and I'll be at the

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next meeting.

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» Yeah,

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» this

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All

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right. So, I'm just

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I can swear you all in at this time, you

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know, in case you guys testify and for

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Max as well. So, if you could all please

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raise your right hands, I can do it

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simultaneously. Um, do you swear that

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the testimony you're about to give shall

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be the truth, the whole truth, and

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nothing but the truth to help you God? I

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do.

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>> I do.

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>> Okay. So, then I guess we'll have you

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each say your names as as you speak. So,

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>> Okay.

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>> Good afternoon or good evening, early

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evening. I'm Max Hayden. I'm the

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architect for the applicant. Um, Jiva

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and Mita live at 61 Lee Avenue in the

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Witherspoon Jackson neighborhood. Um,

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they have a 1910 era house. It's uh one

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of several in a cluster nearby. Uh we

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they would like to extend their porch to

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the right hand side of the house,

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wrapping it back to the L to gain much

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needed space. They have the most

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adorable little set of twins I ever saw

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and they have less adorable teenagers.

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And so there are six people living in a

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relatively modest house. And the porch

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addition will have an extension of the

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front porch, but it will also include a

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much needed mudroom and bathroom for the

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first floor. Um, at the rear of the

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house, we are uh extending a porch over

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an existing set of stairs. The stairs

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will actually be replaced, but they lead

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from the kitchen to the garden. and uh

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we really want to cover them over to

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protect them and replace the 1950s era

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concrete steps with something more

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sympathetic to the architecture of the

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house. So, we're really trying to make

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it look as if this is how the house was

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built. Uh we're also asking for um

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permission to erect a fence to separate

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the parking, the existing parking from

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um the garden. They're avid gardeners.

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They have some chickens. They really

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love hanging out in their yard. They

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have an they have a double lot and

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they'd like to um you know have a little

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bit of privacy. Um they are going to

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match all the existing finishes. The

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color of the trim will stay the same.

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The color of the windows will stay the

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same. Uh we are

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>> with with one Oh, go ahead.

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>> With with one exception. So Oh, Jiva

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Petran, I'm one of the owners. Um the

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prior owners painted some of the windows

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pink and some maybe five different

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shades of green. So our proposal

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includes um matching the what seems the

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most historical part which was the

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sophet was a sages green. Um, and so our

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proposal includes making all the windows

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the same shade

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>> and uh we might be changing the stuckco

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color.

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>> Um, and the stucco is in very poor shape

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and we need to patch it in multiple

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areas. So, the plan is to um the most

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original stucco color was a a very

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bright coral pink and then it's gone

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through multiple iterations of various

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paints all over it. And so, we would

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propose to bring it to like a beigish

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lightish pink like a sandstone color

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like a white off-white I don't know how

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to describe that

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just not the bright coral that it was.

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We also the applicant also is required

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to get a variance because the porch

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exceeds the prevailing setback and the

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zoning code takes 500 ft along one side

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which is kind of funny I will call it

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because the cluster of houses that this

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house is similar to all have the same

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porch and the same setback to the

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street. So, it's a little ownorous on

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the owner, but that's the next step for

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us. So, we're hoping that the historic

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commission will deem this an appropriate

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application and uh would welcome any

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questions you might have.

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» Uh I'll [music]

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briefly go through the the main points.

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Um, as the applicants and Max have said,

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the applicants have filed an application

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for historic preservation plan review as

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well as an application toward the zoning

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board of adjustment for severances

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related to the restoration and extension

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of the existing front porch, the

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construction of a one-story addition on

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the east side elevation of the dwelling,

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as well as landscape and hardscape

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changes to 61 Lee Avenue. Uh, the site

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is identified as 6904, lots 23 and 24 on

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the Princeton tax map. It is in

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Princeton historic overlay in

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Witherspoon Jackson historic district as

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a type two district which is defined per

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T10B2 I is subject to preservation plan

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review for any changes visible from the

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public right ofway. Uh 61 Lee Avenue is

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a circa 1915 2 and a half story L-shaped

264
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woodframe vernacular building clad and

265
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stucco with some colonial and folk

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revival influences based on the historic

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sandborn maps. The building largely

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retains the same footprint since its

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original construction. This includes the

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full width front porch, the twotory L on

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the east side elevation as well as the

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one-story shed roof for your edition.

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The proposed scope of work includes the

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restoration of the existing front porch

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and kind that is not that's a blank

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00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:37,710
page.

277
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:38,000
>> [snorts]

278
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,320
>> uh the restoration of the existing

279
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:41,920
masonry the restoration of the existing

280
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,920
masonry stoop with a wood stoop and

281
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,079
railing as well as the extension of the

282
00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:48,480
front roof around the east elevation

283
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,079
connecting and closing the east side

284
00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:52,399
elevation and south front elevation of

285
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:54,800
the main block and L respectively. The

286
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,480
enclosure will eliminate the existing

287
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,560
stoop entrance to the L creating a

288
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,800
one-story addition. The east elevation

289
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,399
of the addition will feature two new

290
00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:04,639
wood windows with custom lentils sills

291
00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:06,560
casing and trim to match the existing

292
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,720
windows. The applicant also proposes to

293
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,560
add a new bluestone walkway to replace

294
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,360
the existing brick walkway, a 6-ft tall

295
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,440
cedar fence to the rear yard, and a shed

296
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,360
roof extension to the existing one-story

297
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,600
shed roof rear edition. There were also

298
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,360
additional landscaping changes proposed

299
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:22,880
for the rear yard that will not be

300
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,800
visible from the public rightway with

301
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,800
the installation of the new fence. The

302
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,079
proposed scope of work appears to

303
00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:29,839
largely retain the historic fabric and

304
00:15:29,839 --> 00:15:31,199
character defining features at the

305
00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:32,959
property. The proposed one-story

306
00:15:32,959 --> 00:15:34,480
addition on the east elevation of the

307
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,240
front facade will alter the building's

308
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,920
overall massing, but the form will

309
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,320
remain evident. Similarly sized and

310
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,000
placed additions have been made to a

311
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,839
number of dwellings along Lee Avenue,

312
00:15:43,839 --> 00:15:47,360
including 64, 66, and 87 Lee, although

313
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,199
these additions appear to be to have

314
00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:50,639
been construction prior to local

315
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:52,639
designation of the historic district.

316
00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:55,360
The the additions appear to be

317
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,120
compatible with the existing size,

318
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,800
scale, and proportion massing of the

319
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,880
houses along Lee and within the larger

320
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,959
Weatherspoon Jackson Historic District.

321
00:16:02,959 --> 00:16:05,199
Therefore, the proposed addition at 61

322
00:16:05,199 --> 00:16:07,120
Lee Avenue appears to be consistent with

323
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:08,720
the existing paradigm of the block and

324
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,240
falls within the vernacular traditions

325
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,240
of the neighborhood. The fence provided

326
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,079
in the concept plans appears to match

327
00:16:14,079 --> 00:16:16,000
existing fencing found throughout the

328
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,519
Weatherspoon Jackson neighbor

329
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,519
Witherspoon Jackson historic district as

330
00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:21,680
a wood fence with the lattice top. In

331
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,040
addition, the blue stone walkway and the

332
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,040
proposed rear rear roof addition appears

333
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,560
to have minimal impact on the building

334
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,440
or the surrounding district. Uh this is

335
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,759
an application for development. So the

336
00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:35,759
HBC is a referral to the zoning board of

337
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:37,680
adjustment.

338
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,000
As a contributing resource to the

339
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,079
Witherspoon Jackson Historic District,

340
00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:43,839
staff recommends that the commission

341
00:16:43,839 --> 00:16:46,320
consider whether the project as proposed

342
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,759
generally retains the building's

343
00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:50,320
historic integrity, spaces, and spatial

344
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,000
relationships as well as the overall

345
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,160
historic character of the property. In

346
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:55,519
addition, staff recommends that the

347
00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:57,120
commission consider the following while

348
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,480
conducting their historic preservation

349
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,639
plan review and sub subsequent

350
00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:02,079
recommendation to the zoning board

351
00:17:02,079 --> 00:17:04,160
adjustment. Whether proposed project

352
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,520
meets the secretary of the interior

353
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:06,799
standards for the treatment of historic

354
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:08,959
properties. Whether proposed project is

355
00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:10,559
appropriate to and compatible with the

356
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:12,079
existing structures and landscape of the

357
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,480
Wman Jackson historic district. Whether

358
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:15,839
the proposed project would adversely

359
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:17,360
affect the ambiance, character, and

360
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:19,039
appearance of the district. Whether

361
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:20,880
proposed project preserves or enhances

362
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,640
the historic or architectural value of

363
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,640
the structure. Whether proposed project

364
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,160
would reversely affect the exterior

365
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,760
architectural features and setting of

366
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,320
the structure as well as its historic

367
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,320
and architectural character. whether the

368
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,080
modifications proposed to the existing

369
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,760
dwelling that are beneficial to comp

370
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,840
contemporary living including the

371
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,440
construction of the new onesto edition

372
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,960
are consistent with the architectural

373
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,320
design and character of the structure

374
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,080
and the larger district. Whether

375
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,520
proposed addition is visually compatible

376
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:46,640
with the structures and places within

377
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,160
the district. Whether the proposed

378
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,160
addition acts as a backdrop to and does

379
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,000
not visually intrude upon the structures

380
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,080
and places within the district. Whether

381
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,440
the height of the addition is visually

382
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,559
compatible with the structures within

383
00:17:56,559 --> 00:17:58,480
the district. Whether the relationship

384
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,080
of the width and the height of the

385
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,160
district of the addition is visually

386
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:03,360
compatible with the structures and

387
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,000
places within the district. Whether the

388
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,760
relationship the proposed addition to

389
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,760
the open space between it and joining

390
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,520
structures is visually compatible.

391
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:12,799
Whether the roof shape of proposed

392
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:14,160
addition is visually compatible with

393
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,240
structures within the mated setting and

394
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,760
whether the size, massing, and windows

395
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,200
on the proposed addition is visually

396
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,200
compatible. and whether the fencing

397
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,799
proposed is appropriate for the historic

398
00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:24,640
preservation district and the principal

399
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,990
structure on the lot.

400
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,350
Thank you.

401
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:37,590
If um

402
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,360
unfortunately I can see part of the

403
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,039
drawing up here that you guys can't see

404
00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:43,520
on the screen there. Um I had one

405
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,760
question about it, but I would ask the

406
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,280
commission members if they want to make

407
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,720
some comments before I go.

408
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,039
Um, I will

409
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:53,840
>> Okay, go ahead.

410
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,039
>> Um, I agree entirely. This seems to be

411
00:18:57,039 --> 00:18:59,440
very consistent with the neighborhood

412
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,679
and that the owners have shown

413
00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:04,559
themselves to be very wonderful stewards

414
00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:08,160
of the property. So, I think it fits in

415
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,320
beautifully with the with the

416
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:19,350
neighborhood context.

417
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,360
I just needed some clarification on the

418
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,280
fence.

419
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,520
Um,

420
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,520
a picture of the fence.

421
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,240
>> The fencing will be cedar.

422
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,360
Um, there's a lattice on top of it to

423
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,360
break down the scale of it because it is

424
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,160
a 6 foot tall fence.

425
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,640
>> And um,

426
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,720
you know, there is a gate allowing

427
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,720
access from the parking to the rear

428
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,480
yard. It's on the second

429
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,720
>> and it connects to the shed.

430
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,200
>> What is the uh existing fence? I think

431
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,360
it's iron, is it?

432
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:56,320
>> What is the

433
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,240
>> There's an existing fence there.

434
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,430
>> No, there is no fence. No.

435
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,440
Sorry.

436
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,280
>> So, I don't know if it helps, but to

437
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,320
plan the plan is to in front of the

438
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,480
fence plant a rain garden to capture

439
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,520
some of the the rainwater there. Um, so

440
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,760
the plan is that really there will be a

441
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,240
little bit of plantings there also

442
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,559
hiding the fence from view. I don't know

443
00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:27,760
if that helps explain, but that it won't

444
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:35,510
be like the first thing you see.

445
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,600
» Surely, do you have any uh comments you

446
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:38,880
want to add?

447
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,799
>> Yes, I agree with the commission. I

448
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:43,840
don't agree with extending the porch.

449
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,400
And um the reason that it's pink and

450
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,120
green is probably because it's festive.

451
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,520
uh with the family who was there before.

452
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,559
I agreed to changing it all to a a

453
00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:57,360
green, but um I wanted to stay the way

454
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,840
it is and just do the fixer uppers uh

455
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:08,310
and not extend the the porch.

456
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,080
Um okay, thank you.

457
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,400
Um my question, and it's going to be a

458
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,320
little bit hard to do without without

459
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:22,710
graphics. I'm going to ask um

460
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,600
Max if he can kind of with words work

461
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,559
with me. The gable over the entrance

462
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:32,640
currently,

463
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,840
how does that relate to the gable that I

464
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,840
guess is going to be in about the same

465
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,480
place, but the porch being brought out?

466
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,240
The gable now looks like it's in the

467
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,360
middle of the porch roof and it looks

468
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,440
like it's at a different pitch.

469
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,000
>> No, I mean it's meant The gable's

470
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,760
staying there. Gable's not moving.

471
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,840
>> Oh, that gable and and those precise

472
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,360
angles are staying there. Then it's just

473
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:56,240
my eyes. Sorry.

474
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,120
>> Yeah. No, we're just truly extending to

475
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,000
the right and it will be an open porch

476
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,240
and then the addition is from the wall

477
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,039
of the house back where it's enclosed.

478
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:08,720
And you know, the whole thought was to

479
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,360
make it look as if it was at one point

480
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:13,760
kind of a wraparound porch that Yes,

481
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,440
they then enclosed,

482
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,240
>> which I don't think is out of character

483
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,919
with the rest of the neighborhood.

484
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:22,159
>> Mhm.

485
00:22:22,159 --> 00:22:24,559
>> And it gives them very much needed

486
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:27,830
space.

487
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:34,230
Okay. Then um

488
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,039
then I g I I guess that now that I

489
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:38,799
understand that that gable is not

490
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:40,720
changing. It's just that it's it's

491
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,520
position just looks different when you

492
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,120
have extended the

493
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:48,240
>> it it might be

494
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,720
I may have drawn it not accurately but

495
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,520
truly we're not changing the gable.

496
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,720
>> Okay. I my hope is that we can actually

497
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,919
keep the roof um the moldings are all

498
00:22:59,919 --> 00:23:01,120
rotten.

499
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:02,960
>> Um and everything is covered in lead

500
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,200
paint. I have 2-year-old toddlers and so

501
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,600
part of this is abatement of any

502
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,840
possible lead. But we are hoping

503
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,480
actually to preserve the gable as it is.

504
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,280
Um as well as the existing roof and just

505
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,440
really replacing the moldings and

506
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,760
everything else. So really kind of doing

507
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,159
very little to to to any of that. We're

508
00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:24,320
not touching the ballisters. Uh we're

509
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,720
keeping the original spindles. The porch

510
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,720
really should not look noticeably

511
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,880
different to people who have known it

512
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,760
before except for that it extends just a

513
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,799
little bit further out. It should really

514
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:41,190
be as much original as possible.

515
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,159
And also I think that you know um

516
00:23:46,159 --> 00:23:50,240
as I understand it now um looking at it

517
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,080
you would still be able to understand

518
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,240
what had been there all along and what's

519
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,240
being changed

520
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,000
uh without standing out as a change. You

521
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,559
can kind of pick up that where where

522
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:06,720
things looked originally.

523
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,000
Um, so that makes me more comfortable.

524
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,600
>> There is a side entry door in the L now.

525
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,159
>> Mhm.

526
00:24:16,159 --> 00:24:18,320
>> With another set of steps. There are

527
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,880
three entrances into the house. We're

528
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,039
really kind of making a front door and a

529
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:26,480
back door and trying to codify it a

530
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,440
little bit.

531
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:35,350
>> Mhm.

532
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,039
Are there members of the public who

533
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:41,430
wanted to speak about this application?

534
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,430
Okay.

535
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,520
Uh notwithstanding that Shirley has a

536
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,799
different uh view on this porch, um is

537
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:53,679
anyone wanting to put forth a motion

538
00:24:53,679 --> 00:24:57,347
about what we'd like to do? Um, I'll

539
00:24:57,347 --> 00:24:59,039
[clears throat] put forward a motion to

540
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:03,990
accept the application as presented.

541
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,350
» Second.

542
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:13,350
» A second.

543
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:23,990
» Okay. Um,

544
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,080
» let's go ahead and have a a roll call on

545
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,679
that, please. On that motion,

546
00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:37,909
>> Miss Satderfield.

547
00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:42,799
» Oh, I already made my decision. Yes.

548
00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:45,600
>> Yes. to the motion.

549
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,240
>> Yes.

550
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,669
>> Okay.

551
00:25:49,679 --> 00:25:50,880
Miss Howard?

552
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,960
>> Yes.

553
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,320
>> Miss Capazolei?

554
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,520
>> Yes.

555
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:56,640
>> Chair Sher?

556
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,279
>> Yes.

557
00:25:57,279 --> 00:25:59,360
>> Okay. Motion has passed.

558
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:00,240
>> Thank you very much.

559
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,279
>> Thank you all very much.

560
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:09,750
>> Thank you.

561
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:19,909
» Okay.

562
00:26:19,919 --> 00:26:40,173
Thank you.

563
00:26:40,183 --> 00:26:43,990
» [clears throat]

564
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,600
» Oh, okay. Um, would the um application

565
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,870
for 30 lid like to take the table?

566
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,760
I'm going to uh just mention one thing

567
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,080
is these microphones are kind of

568
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,400
sensitive. So, when you're talking just

569
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,400
lean into them.

570
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,470
>> Sounds good.

571
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,640
If you could both raise your Are you

572
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,880
both going to be speaking on? Yes. Okay.

573
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,799
If you could both raise your right hand.

574
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,320
Um do u do you swear that that the

575
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,760
testimony you're about to give shall be

576
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:18,960
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

577
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,039
but the truth to help you God.

578
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:22,159
>> Yes.

579
00:27:22,159 --> 00:27:22,880
I do.

580
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,200
>> Okay. And then if you could state your

581
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,720
full names for the record.

582
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,520
>> Sure.

583
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,120
>> Luke Hermer,

584
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:35,110
>> Ana Tavgar. Okay.

585
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,440
So, go ahead and tell us about your

586
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,840
project. Um, let's get it up on the

587
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,230
screen if we can.

588
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,679
» Do you want to start? You want to be on

589
00:27:45,679 --> 00:27:46,799
the screen?

590
00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:49,200
>> Yeah, I mean I can start. So, we bought

591
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,720
this house uh about a year ago. Uh, and

592
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,919
when we bought it, it had a uh like

593
00:27:55,919 --> 00:27:58,960
dilapidated garage on it that was by

594
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,720
ASIS. Uh, and so, you know, when we

595
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,039
moved in, we were like, we want to, you

596
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:07,840
know, refurbish this and change it. We

597
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,080
had a architect come, Ronald Berlin,

598
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,000
whose letter is in the testimony. And

599
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,679
then same thing with a builder, a Smith,

600
00:28:15,679 --> 00:28:16,320
who

601
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,520
>> does a lot of work in the neighborhood,

602
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:18,880
lives in the neighborhood.

603
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,880
>> Uh, and they both were basically like,

604
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,159
yeah, this has to be demolished and torn

605
00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:27,120
down. Uh and then so then we were

606
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:30,000
evaluating other options and basically

607
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,640
noticed that a lot of the uh houses in

608
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,640
the neighborhood don't have garages and

609
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,320
so we were like okay well maybe we don't

610
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,159
need one. It would be really expensive

611
00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:41,440
to completely redo everything uh about

612
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,880
the garage. So we applied for a building

613
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,200
permit to get the garage to demolish the

614
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,600
garage and we received the permit and so

615
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,240
then we demolished the garage. Uh, and

616
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,480
then when we wanted to, we decided we

617
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,320
wanted to just do a small patio off the

618
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,919
back. Uh, and put a fence in and put in

619
00:28:59,919 --> 00:29:03,440
like a little prefab shed for storage.

620
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,640
uh we applied to do so and were informed

621
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,360
that you know we needed to get approval

622
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,440
from the historic district uh in order

623
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,080
to do that and have then like I guess

624
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,960
retroactively sort of applied for

625
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,360
demolition of the garage including

626
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,360
informing our neighbors and publishing

627
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,120
stuff in the newspaper. Yeah.

628
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,279
>> And whatnot. Uh and so the proposed

629
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:28,159
changes would be it's like a small uh

630
00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:30,240
like blue stone patio

631
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:30,880
>> paver

632
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,039
>> uh or with pavers

633
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:37,120
>> uh it's a cedar wood fence and uh the

634
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,520
shed is like just a prefab like Quaker

635
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:40,000
shed

636
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,799
>> on the shed. Also, I will mention too

637
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:44,399
regarding the building permit we

638
00:29:44,399 --> 00:29:46,799
received for the demolition. Um, that

639
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:49,279
was an instance of going to the

640
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:52,640
municipal office window and, you know,

641
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,399
ringing the bell or whatever it is and

642
00:29:54,399 --> 00:29:56,240
just saying, "Hey, we we don't know

643
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,760
what's going on, but we need a permit."

644
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,760
Um, and we weren't directed to speak

645
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,440
with with Sarah or the Historic

646
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,360
Preservation Commission. Um, so that's

647
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,080
how that process went forward without

648
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,950
doing this first.

649
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,480
Thank you. Um Sarah, do you want to tell

650
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,760
us about

651
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,840
>> Sure. Uh I'm going to kind of largely

652
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,600
read this one in full because it's a

653
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,120
little more complex. Uh so apologize for

654
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,480
my garbled length. Um the applicants uh

655
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,880
Ania and Luke have filed an application

656
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,799
for historic preservation plan review

657
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:36,399
related to the replacement of the

658
00:30:36,399 --> 00:30:38,559
existing wood fence with the cedar fence

659
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:41,279
at 30 Lidle Street. The scope of work

660
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:43,039
also includes items that are not visible

661
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:44,880
from the public rightway such as the

662
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,799
installation of a pre-fabricated shed

663
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:48,320
and the installation of a blue stone

664
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,320
patio in the rear yard. The site is

665
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,120
identified as block 1501, lot 17 on the

666
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,960
Princeton tax map and is located in the

667
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,039
R4B zone within the Witherspman Jackson

668
00:30:57,039 --> 00:30:58,960
Historic District. The property is

669
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,799
designated on Princeton's historic

670
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:02,960
overlay district as a type two, which is

671
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,720
defined per 10T T10B2 is subject to

672
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,399
preservation plan review for any changes

673
00:31:08,399 --> 00:31:10,559
visible from the public ride ofway. In

674
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:11,679
addition, in the application

675
00:31:11,679 --> 00:31:13,200
description, the applicant noted that

676
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,640
they had applied for a building permit

677
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,320
to demolish and remove the detached

678
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,640
garage, concrete slab, and a portion of

679
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,120
the existing driveway on May 5th, 2026.

680
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,679
Am I um a building permit was granted on

681
00:31:25,679 --> 00:31:28,000
May 6, 2026 for the demolition of a

682
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,080
one-story woodframe garage listed as a

683
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,000
shed. However, no prior historic

684
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,679
preservation plan review application was

685
00:31:33,679 --> 00:31:35,440
filed for the demolition of the garage

686
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,360
or the hardscape changes to the side and

687
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,519
rear yards. Once staff learned about the

688
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:42,960
demolition of the garage uh and the of

689
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,240
the demolition, staff followed up with

690
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:45,519
the building department to let them know

691
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,519
that exterior changes within a historic

692
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:49,519
preservation zoning district, including

693
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:51,600
but not limited to the demolition and

694
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,519
removal of any structure subject to

695
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:55,120
historic preservation plan review and

696
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,480
should be referred to the office of

697
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,720
historic preservation immediately. It

698
00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:59,840
appears that the building department

699
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,679
believes the removal of such a small

700
00:32:01,679 --> 00:32:03,120
structure such as a shed would not

701
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,200
require HBC review and did not refer the

702
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,640
application to the historic preservation

703
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,720
officer. In early discussions with the

704
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,320
applicant, it appeared the applicant

705
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,640
largely assumed the same or was unaware

706
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,240
regarding the garage and staff

707
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,679
instructed them on the required

708
00:32:15,679 --> 00:32:19,440
application noticing under T10B 378 and

709
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,039
T10B390.

710
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:22,799
Although the garage has been demolished,

711
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:24,320
the commission should consider if it met

712
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,600
the criteria outlined under T10B390,

713
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,120
including whether or not the garage

714
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,799
could not have been put to a reasonable

715
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,519
use and its preservation would have and

716
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:34,640
whether or not its preservation would

717
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,240
have imposed a financial hardship on the

718
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,240
applicant. The property is in the Wii

719
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,840
Jackson Historic District as shown on

720
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,679
municipal overlay zoning map of historic

721
00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:46,080
districts and buffer districts on the

722
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,000
south side of Lidle Street east of the

723
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,919
intersection of John and Lidle Streets.

724
00:32:49,919 --> 00:32:51,519
The Willisman Jackson Historic District

725
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:53,360
is primarily a residential district

726
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,039
unique in Princeton with a period of

727
00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:56,320
significance that reflects the

728
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,000
development of one of the earliest

729
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,519
African-American communities in New

730
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:02,799
Jersey from 1830 to 1969. The district's

731
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:04,799
cultural significance is represented

732
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:06,320
through the built environment that

733
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,320
developed over time in simple vernacular

734
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,240
styles due to economic disparity,

735
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,399
displacement, and discrimination. 30

736
00:33:12,399 --> 00:33:14,320
Lidle Street is a two-story woodframe

737
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,720
vernacular dwelling constructed s circa

738
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:22,399
1900 along with its neighbor 32 Lidle Street originally 28 and 30 Lidle

739
00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:24,720
respectively. The former garage located

740
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,240
southwest of the dwelling in the rear

741
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,480
yard was a one-story frame building clad

742
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,640
and stuck with an asphalt shingle gable

743
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,640
roof and an asphalt shingle halfhipped

744
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,559
roof extension over the north front

745
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:36,320
elevation which featured vertical board

746
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,480
sliding doors. Historic Sandborn maps

747
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,399
indicate that the garage was constructed

748
00:33:40,399 --> 00:33:42,320
circa 1925.

749
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,480
The construction of the detached garages

750
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,240
or similarsly sized out buildings was

751
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,840
not uncommon in the Wii Jackson

752
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,640
neighborhood between 1918 and 1927. Most

753
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,240
of this development appears to have been

754
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,000
concentrated along the north section of

755
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,679
the neighborhood as parcels along Lee

756
00:33:55,679 --> 00:33:57,600
and Birch were laid out and were later

757
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:58,880
accelerated by the construction of

758
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,720
Palmer Square. However, the central

759
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,320
cross streets of the district also saw

760
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:03,760
the construction of these outbuildings,

761
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,600
including those on Lidle, McClean,

762
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,600
Quarry, and Green, with a few appearing

763
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,919
on along John Street as well. While it's

764
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:11,679
difficult to confirm if they were all

765
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,440
constructed specifically as garages,

766
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:14,960
historic photos from the Historical

767
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,879
Society of Princeton showed the presence

768
00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:18,240
of cars throughout the neighborhood as

769
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:19,919
widespread car ownership expanded

770
00:34:19,919 --> 00:34:22,240
nationally in the 1920s. For communities

771
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:24,079
like Withersman Jackson, car ownership

772
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:25,839
also provided a level of freedom to

773
00:34:25,839 --> 00:34:27,200
travel beyond their walkable

774
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,200
neighborhood. This is reflected in the

775
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,520
annual Negro Motorist Guide Book, also

776
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,679
known as the Green Book, a travel guide

777
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,359
for African-Americans during the Jim

778
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:37,359
Crow era, that included advertisements

779
00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:39,280
for four Princeton businesses within the

780
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,760
Withers Jackson neighborhood. Cars also

781
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,119
provided additional employment

782
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:44,879
opportunities beyond those at Princeton

783
00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:46,399
University or within the Manners,

784
00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:47,919
especially at the Princ after the

785
00:34:47,919 --> 00:34:50,000
Princeton Fastline Trolley that l ran

786
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,000
along Witherspoon Street was shut down

787
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,639
in 1930. While the garage at 30 Lidle

788
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:56,480
Street appeared to be utilitarian in

789
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,079
design with little to no architectural

790
00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:00,160
ornamentation compared to other garages

791
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,640
from the period, its significance is

792
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,760
marked by the development it

793
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,920
represented. The Wman Jackson Historic

794
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,520
District is first and foremost a

795
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,599
historic district designated for its

796
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:11,760
cultural significance. This significance

797
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,760
is reflected in the built environment of

798
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,240
not just vernacular residences but also

799
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:18,240
outbuildings and garages that survive

800
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,720
from earlier periods. For a community

801
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,240
facing racial discrimination,

802
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:23,920
segregation, and limited employment

803
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,560
opportunities, the freedoms provided by

804
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,320
car ownership in the early 20th century

805
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,320
were not insignificant. This importance

806
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:31,520
is reflected in the increased

807
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,040
development of rear out buildings and

808
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,240
garages between 1918 and 1927. Based on

809
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,599
current aerials, few of these

810
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:39,200
outbuildings remain extent with the

811
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:40,880
majority still concentrated along Lee

812
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,280
and Birch. Additionally, staff can only

813
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,520
find one similar design similarly

814
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,960
designed extent garage to 30 lid on man,

815
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,040
although it is a smaller version. The

816
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,480
integrity of a cultural historic

817
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,079
district like Witherspman Jackson is

818
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:56,480
largely reflected in the cohesive

819
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,640
setting and building density of the

820
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,400
neighborhood. While a small shattered

821
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,079
garage may not be architecturally

822
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:03,680
significant, it can reflect the unique

823
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,760
history, development, and character of

824
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,790
the surrounding area.

825
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,960
This application represents an after

826
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,880
the-act demolition review that did

827
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,520
obtain building permits in addition to

828
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,599
the proposed improvements after the

829
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:21,280
demolition of the garage. In addition to

830
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,440
reviewing the appropriateness of the

831
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,839
replacement fence, staff recommends that

832
00:36:25,839 --> 00:36:27,200
the commission consider the following

833
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,400
while conducting their historic

834
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,640
preservation plan review. whether the

835
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,800
demolition of the garage met this

836
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,839
criteria outlined under 10B390,

837
00:36:35,839 --> 00:36:37,440
including whether or not the garage

838
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,960
could not have been put to a reasonable

839
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,960
use and whether its preservation would

840
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,720
have imposed a financial hardship on the

841
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:44,880
applicant, whether proposed project

842
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,280
would adversely affect the exterior

843
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,880
architectural features and setting of

844
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,280
the property as well as its historic and

845
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,880
architectural character. Whether the

846
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,560
proposed project preserves or enhances

847
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,560
the historic architectural value of the

848
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,640
character of the property. Whether the

849
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,640
proposed project is appropriate to and

850
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,400
compatible with the existing structures

851
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,560
and landscape of the district. Whether

852
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,160
the proposed fencing is appropriate for

853
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,680
the historic preservation district and

854
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,440
the dwelling on the property. Whether

855
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,040
proposed fencing would change the open

856
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,119
streetscape or obstruct the view of

857
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:20,950
these nearby structures.

858
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,349
» Thank you.

859
00:37:25,359 --> 00:37:27,520
my um

860
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,599
first um item here. Um

861
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:33,200
well, let me first find out if there's

862
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,119
any comment from anybody in the public

863
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:38,560
first on this project. Okay. Uh I guess

864
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,400
the first thing I'm I'm going to ask um

865
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,800
Sarah or Lisa is what is the action that

866
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,480
we're that's before us tonight on this?

867
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,359
What do we

868
00:37:51,359 --> 00:37:53,680
are we looking for?

869
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,920
>> Just I was gonna say just I think the

870
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,200
board is just determining whether or not

871
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,839
um it would have approved the

872
00:38:01,839 --> 00:38:03,839
demolition. Um I don't think the board

873
00:38:03,839 --> 00:38:10,320
has the legal authority to um I mean I the board has [clears throat] the

874
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,839
legal authority to make factual findings

875
00:38:11,839 --> 00:38:13,359
but the board wouldn't for instance if

876
00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:16,079
the board said this was wrongful cannot

877
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:17,839
order to you know the building be

878
00:38:17,839 --> 00:38:19,680
rebuilt or anything like that. It's just

879
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,520
more for purposes of um uh setting forth

880
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,359
a record about um and making findings

881
00:38:27,359 --> 00:38:32,400
about um the really what what is in the

882
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,680
board's purview which is whether or not

883
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,880
um it would have approved demolition.

884
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:39,359
>> Thank you.

885
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:41,760
>> Does that help?

886
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,079
>> Sorry. Do you have anything to add? I

887
00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:46,320
yeah, I think that's that's we're

888
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,680
they're you're reviewing the the

889
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,240
application they submitted of the fence

890
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:52,800
and the the the other changes to the

891
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,480
backyard, which aren't really visible,

892
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,440
so it's not really within our

893
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,119
jurisdiction. Um, and then an after

894
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:02,640
the-act review of the demolition of the

895
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,720
garage.

896
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:05,440
>> Yep.

897
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,079
>> There's no recourse, but on the record

898
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,920
of whether or not we would have whe it would have been approved.

899
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,240
>> Thank you. Can I ask a quick question?

900
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:14,640
>> Yes.

901
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,599
>> I'm wondering Sarah, we got it late if

902
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:19,920
the um statement from Abel Smith was

903
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,599
also given to the board.

904
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,240
>> It was uploaded to all the I just want

905
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:25,760
to make sure that both you have both

906
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,839
documents because they talk about the

907
00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:30,079
>> they address the um the guidelines for

908
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:31,040
demolition

909
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,119
>> both Abel Smith and Ron Berlin,

910
00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:34,800
>> right?

911
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,040
Um

912
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,920
>> I have a question for Lisa really. Um,

913
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,720
how does the fact that they they

914
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:45,280
received zoning approval, how does that

915
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,599
affect us?

916
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:50,079
>> Well, I think it definitely

917
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:52,160
impacts the, you know, impacts what

918
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,480
happened. It it you can't ignore that

919
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,800
it, you know, they they had gotten

920
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,839
building approval. Um, so it you can

921
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:03,760
definitely consider that this is a very

922
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,800
unique situation. But I would also, you

923
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,640
know, look at the, you know, the

924
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,400
historic preservation standards because

925
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,920
I think it's important just publicly

926
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,720
also not not just for, you know, one

927
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:17,520
application, but just in general, um, so

928
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,599
people understand, you know, the

929
00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:21,520
demolition standards you to, you know,

930
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,760
to go through those standards and and to

931
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,040
review it here just to make a public

932
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,240
record. But at the same time, I think it

933
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:32,960
is reasonable to consider the fact that

934
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,119
the building department issued approval.

935
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:36,640
I I definitely think that that is a

936
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:44,630
reasonable consideration.

937
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,040
I'll make a comment.

938
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,960
Um,

939
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,599
I do think that

940
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:56,079
it's remiss of the building department

941
00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:58,319
to

942
00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:03,599
just casually um allow for a demolition

943
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:06,480
in a historic district. I think that's

944
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,000
beyond their ability to approve. On the

945
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,119
other hand, this building is in terrible

946
00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:16,640
shape and it's not really significant as

947
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,680
far as its architectural style. So, I

948
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,760
think we're

949
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,599
in some ways just lucky. So, I do think

950
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,480
we would have allowed the demolition of

951
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,119
this, but I don't think it was right for

952
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:34,319
the building department to say, "Okay, I

953
00:41:34,319 --> 00:41:35,839
think we should have been able to at

954
00:41:35,839 --> 00:41:39,200
least have Sarah look at it." So, but

955
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,599
given the fact that this all happened,

956
00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:45,680
I'm I'm comfortable moving on,

957
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:51,750
you know, with the whole thing.

958
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,079
» Surely,

959
00:41:54,079 --> 00:42:04,390
do you have some comments to add?

960
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,319
Okay. Well, she may be thinking about it

961
00:42:06,319 --> 00:42:08,400
some. I will tell you my thoughts what I

962
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,160
think are are consistent with what we're

963
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,560
hearing overall this evening and you

964
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,359
know this is from a historic

965
00:42:15,359 --> 00:42:17,440
preservation point of view and what's

966
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,079
happening on a property and a historic

967
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:23,760
resource uh regardless of its condition.

968
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,599
Uh, I think that the point that Sarah

969
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:28,000
brings up, well, um, we we think it's

970
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,800
not a high-style building. It's a part

971
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,960
of the complete package of what was

972
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,560
going on in that neighborhood, which is

973
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,520
significant, but well, moving on from

974
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,359
there, I I think that a, you know,

975
00:42:39,359 --> 00:42:41,520
unfortunate series of actions took

976
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,359
place. Um, the building is gone. Um but

977
00:42:45,359 --> 00:42:47,200
I think this is as as I think

978
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,480
everybody's saying an opportunity for

979
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,839
all the parties and and and I mean the

980
00:42:53,839 --> 00:42:57,520
municipal parties um property owners but

981
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,359
also some of the contractors who are

982
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:00,960
familiar with this area and familiar

983
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,839
with this town also too have kind of

984
00:43:03,839 --> 00:43:07,200
guided you or misguided you. Um, I kind

985
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,400
of like this be, you know, as far as the

986
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,280
record goes, anyone reads our minutes,

987
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,440
um, that this is a situation that we'd

988
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,000
like not to see happen or if it's going

989
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,680
to happen and that's still the same

990
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,599
result we come up with, at least we've

991
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:24,800
done our process on it. And, um, I think

992
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,560
that's

993
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,119
the most we can ask for. Um but I think

994
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:32,400
if we can also uh kind of reverberate

995
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,480
from here that um that the departments

996
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,400
and the people that you know are in

997
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,760
charge of giving permission need to uh

998
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,400
be aware um and to that actually and I

999
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,079
we don't need to get into these details

1000
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:51,119
but I understand that notice of what

1001
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:52,560
properties are within districts

1002
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,720
sometimes is is lost that property

1003
00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:57,040
owners don't always realize that and

1004
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,359
that's something that's on our long-term

1005
00:43:59,359 --> 00:44:02,480
plan. It's in our uh design guideline

1006
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,839
review. Um this is something that

1007
00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:08,880
um we want to try and be um more aware

1008
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,640
of and and try to work on more

1009
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,760
proactively and um there we are. Um

1010
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,440
actually, thank you for coming in. Thank

1011
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,680
you for your your honest description of

1012
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,079
what happened and um

1013
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:23,119
>> yeah,

1014
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:26,400
>> wants to make a comment.

1015
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,319
Yeah, I would like to make a comment f

1016
00:44:28,319 --> 00:44:30,400
first. Welcome to the neighborhood.

1017
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:31,440
>> Uh, thank you. I

1018
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,720
>> I live in the Witherspoon Jackson

1019
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:35,200
neighborhood, but I would be remiss if I

1020
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,160
didn't comment on the following. Um, we

1021
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,680
over the past year and a half, we've

1022
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,280
been working with a very talented

1023
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,920
consultant named Dominique

1024
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,599
Wilkins who is putting together Hawkins,

1025
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:50,079
I'm sorry, Hawkins, right?

1026
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:52,640
Hawkins, who's putting together

1027
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,680
uh a navigational tool that goes over

1028
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,920
every single historic district in

1029
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:04,160
Princeton so that people who move into

1030
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,480
Princeton, in particular in a historic

1031
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,000
district,

1032
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,960
know that they are in a historic

1033
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,480
district.

1034
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,480
My point is is that Witherspoon Jackson

1035
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:20,720
may not be uh Mercer Hill, Hyd Road,

1036
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:25,040
uh Constitution Hill. It's not Ca. It

1037
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,359
it's the word vernacular means it's kind

1038
00:45:27,359 --> 00:45:31,040
of helter skelter. So, it would be easy

1039
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,520
to know that you had moved into a very

1040
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,640
uh regular house in the Witherspoon

1041
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,040
Jackson neighborhood and it's not a

1042
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,800
historic district. But the truth is is

1043
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,230
that neighborhood

1044
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:50,240
arguably

1045
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,560
has greater history

1046
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:58,160
than any neighborhood in this town.

1047
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,240
and I and others worked on this being a

1048
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:04,160
historic district, this Princeton's 20th

1049
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,599
historic district. And I got to tell

1050
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:08,960
you, it did not come easy.

1051
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,640
>> It was a allout struggle

1052
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,319
>> because there were many people that

1053
00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:17,280
thought it wouldn't make the historic

1054
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,960
district designation because

1055
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,319
h of houses like the one you bought.

1056
00:46:24,319 --> 00:46:28,560
>> But here's the real story. There's more history in that house.

1057
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,040
The Trotman's live there.

1058
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,680
Uh Mary Tropman, Mr. and Mrs. Tropman,

1059
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,160
Marv Tropman was a great basketball

1060
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,680
player at Princeton High School. He grew

1061
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,800
up in that house. That house is loaded

1062
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,760
with history. So my last point in in

1063
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,480
bringing this to a close is is that I

1064
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,079
think that

1065
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:49,760
uh

1066
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,839
we sometime lose sight of

1067
00:46:53,839 --> 00:46:56,480
what's valuable architecturally

1068
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,200
because it's not it's not pretty.

1069
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,480
>> It like it may not make that much sense.

1070
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,000
But uh you do live in a hell of a

1071
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,920
historic district and and and uh I hope

1072
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,560
that uh

1073
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,960
and it's not the first time.

1074
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,359
>> But but to be honest,

1075
00:47:17,359 --> 00:47:19,680
the these sort of things don't happen

1076
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,839
anywhere else but in our in our in in

1077
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,200
our neighborhood.

1078
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,920
>> And we got to stop that.

1079
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,520
>> Um you didn't make the mistake.

1080
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,240
We made the mistake. And we got to

1081
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:36,000
correct that because that cost us.

1082
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,880
That raggedy ass shack in the back of

1083
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,800
your house was something really

1084
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,520
important to a lot of people and under

1085
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,440
different circumstances.

1086
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:46,880
We would have made you renovate that

1087
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,440
damn shack. We you would have brought it

1088
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,280
back to the way it used to be. That's what kills me in this whole

1089
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:58,319
conversation. I'm not mad at you. I'm just tremendously disappointed and

1090
00:47:58,319 --> 00:48:00,000
sad

1091
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,400
>> that we lost that little raggedy shack.

1092
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:02,880
>> Yeah.

1093
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,400
>> Because that's that's the kind of thing

1094
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,640
like people rebuild their lives when

1095
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,160
they get shattered.

1096
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,240
>> That's what historic designation is. You

1097
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:12,720
rebuild shacks when they lose their

1098
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:14,000
integrity. So

1099
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:14,400
>> yeah,

1100
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,319
>> I hate to wax poetic and take longer

1101
00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:18,000
than I should have, but it was important

1102
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,240
that I shared this with you. And I hope

1103
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:22,559
everybody uh here was paying attention

1104
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:24,319
and everybody online was paying

1105
00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:26,160
attention. And I hope somebody covered

1106
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,280
this that's in the local newspapers and lets people know what I said here

1107
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,319
today. Thank you.

1108
00:48:34,319 --> 00:48:37,520
>> I want to thank you um Councilman Nuland

1109
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,440
for for offering that testimony. I think

1110
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,920
it's really really important and I

1111
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,040
agree. You know, we we tried as best as

1112
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,559
we could to to go through proper

1113
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:49,760
channels and even bringing in Mr. Berlin

1114
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,440
and Mr. Smith to come and look at the

1115
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,680
what at the property was because we know

1116
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,800
they have a a real reverence for the for

1117
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,319
the Witherspoon Jackson neighborhood in

1118
00:48:58,319 --> 00:49:00,640
the historic district. Um, and it wasn't

1119
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,319
just an it wasn't an accident that those

1120
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:03,760
were the two people that we consulted

1121
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,839
about this. Um, but also I agree I agree

1122
00:49:07,839 --> 00:49:10,000
with everything you said and we want to

1123
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,160
also be uh reverent and responsible um

1124
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,599
members of this neighborhood and this

1125
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:17,920
community.

1126
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,000
>> We are happy that you're here. Welcome

1127
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,839
again to the neighborhood. We got some

1128
00:49:21,839 --> 00:49:23,680
work to do to go. Thanks.

1129
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:24,720
>> Yeah. Thank you.

1130
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:25,359
>> Thank you.

1131
00:49:25,359 --> 00:49:28,079
>> Porchfest 9:26. It's going to be

1132
00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:32,790
happening in the neighborhood.

1133
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,200
» Thank you everybody for these comments.

1134
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,520
I think they're they're very meaningful.

1135
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,960
Back to the application. I I guess the

1136
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:44,640
other parts of it, the patio and stuff

1137
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,640
aren't really under our purview, so

1138
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:47,760
we're not really looking at an

1139
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:53,359
application for that. We're Yes. So the prefab shed and the patio would

1140
00:49:53,359 --> 00:49:55,119
ultimately fall out of the view of the

1141
00:49:55,119 --> 00:50:01,440
public rightway, but the fence and the whatever would need to be voted on

1142
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,079
for historic preservation plan review is

1143
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:06,319
the fence which was provided in the

1144
00:50:06,319 --> 00:50:11,680
application specs and whether the garage

1145
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,760
met the criteria, the demolition

1146
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:23,670
criteria.

1147
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,119
So, we're looking for a motion on that

1148
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:27,599
or

1149
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:28,000
>> Yes.

1150
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,109
>> Okay.

1151
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:37,750
» Anybody got that?

1152
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,280
I I guess it's just defense and that we

1153
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,280
have

1154
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,119
by default we have to accept that the

1155
00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:48,559
demolition of the garage happened.

1156
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:54,160
>> Not by no not by default is as we

1157
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,079
you can find that it didn't meet the

1158
00:50:56,079 --> 00:51:00,160
criteria. It's just that we don't have

1159
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,760
for the record that it didn't meet the

1160
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:06,790
criteria under 390

1161
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,520
for the record, but then we're there's

1162
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,160
no other recourse outside of that.

1163
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,680
>> That's for you to

1164
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,240
decide.

1165
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:22,960
>> So, do we have drawings of the patio? I

1166
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,960
see drawings here, but I'm not sure what

1167
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,280
I'm looking at.

1168
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,480
Is this it?

1169
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,880
>> Hello.

1170
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,480
>> Charlie.

1171
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,319
>> Yes. I've been saying hello for the past

1172
00:51:36,319 --> 00:51:38,000
10 minutes. Can you hear me

1173
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,680
>> now? We can. Yeah.

1174
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,200
>> Yeah. Well, I just want to say what

1175
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,119
Leighton has said is exactly what I was

1176
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:45,040
going to talk about. I went past the

1177
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,800
house when I when I was going to the

1178
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,720
American Legion, which is one of the

1179
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:50,880
buildings that's going to be renovated.

1180
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,079
That's a historic um post. And I looked

1181
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:55,760
at the house and I thought the house

1182
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,079
really looked they didn't do very much

1183
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:00,880
to change it from the historic district

1184
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,200
except for what Leighton said about the

1185
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,000
um about the garage. Also, I want to say

1186
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,400
that um I was going to talk about

1187
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,720
Mildred Trotman, not Mildred Trotman,

1188
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:12,559
but uh one of the Trotmans who lived in

1189
00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:15,280
that house. Um

1190
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,160
uh I want to also say that when this

1191
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,839
historic district was started, it

1192
00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:24,640
started in my dining room with nine

1193
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,000
people, three from Princeton community

1194
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,440
and how many left? Six from those of us

1195
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,319
who grew up in this town. And uh when

1196
00:52:34,319 --> 00:52:37,040
people call, I get so many calls, would

1197
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,280
you like to sell your house? I spend

1198
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,200
time giving them the history of the

1199
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,119
Witherspoon Jackson community and they

1200
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,160
hang up. So I want I want everyone to

1201
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,559
know including the two who live on Lidle

1202
00:52:48,559 --> 00:52:50,640
Street is that when you move in this

1203
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,839
neighborhood, remember our ancestors and

1204
00:52:53,839 --> 00:52:56,000
remember our families who took care of

1205
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,400
not only this community but all of

1206
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,960
Princeton. So thank you Leighton for the

1207
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,559
speech that I was going to say. You

1208
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:04,960
already told it but I I kept saying

1209
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,680
hello. Nobody heard me. So thank you.

1210
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:10,720
>> Thank you.

1211
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:15,750
>> We're coming in from this.

1212
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,000
» Um,

1213
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,240
we're still trying to reconcile what the

1214
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:22,319
drawings tell us and what what we're

1215
00:53:22,319 --> 00:53:23,760
trying to look at. From

1216
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:24,559
>> Yes.

1217
00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:26,240
>> From what we're looking [clears throat]

1218
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:31,040
what Freda and I are looking at, we we see a a garage building that's marked

1219
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:32,960
masonry on the drawing. So, that's not

1220
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,200
the one that came down, although that

1221
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:36,960
seems to be the location of It was

1222
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,520
surveyed as masonry, but it was stuck

1223
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:40,800
over frame.

1224
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:41,280
>> Oh.

1225
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:42,079
>> Uhhuh.

1226
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:45,040
>> So that's what Okay. So then the fence

1227
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,359
is this line.

1228
00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:50,640
here. Yeah.

1229
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,480
>> So what are we approving regarding the

1230
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,349
fence?

1231
00:53:57,359 --> 00:53:58,720
» So this is the building that actually

1232
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:00,240
did come down.

1233
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:02,640
>> And this is the fence line.

1234
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,720
>> Got it. And that's going to be What do

1235
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:06,640
we know about the fence? Is it

1236
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,800
>> um It's a shadow box cedar fence.

1237
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,480
>> Yeah, we're just replacing the existing

1238
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,359
one and then we're like adding a little

1239
00:54:15,359 --> 00:54:17,280
gate at the end of the driveway.

1240
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:18,720
>> Were you adding it?

1241
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:19,599
>> It's like a gate.

1242
00:54:19,599 --> 00:54:21,520
>> If the house is here, the driveway, it's

1243
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:22,240
like the very end.

1244
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:24,400
>> Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know.

1245
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,119
>> But this doesn't look like it because on

1246
00:54:27,119 --> 00:54:29,119
the survey it's like in the middle of

1247
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:36,150
the property.

1248
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:48,870
Thank you.

1249
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,400
» Oh, okay. So, we didn't see those.

1250
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:51,839
>> Oh, and this is just

1251
00:54:51,839 --> 00:54:54,079
>> Yeah. And the shadow box in here.

1252
00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:54,400
>> Okay.

1253
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,720
>> And then this.

1254
00:54:56,720 --> 00:54:58,400
>> And then I guess this would be the

1255
00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:59,040
patio.

1256
00:54:59,040 --> 00:54:59,920
>> Yeah.

1257
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,640
>> Which is not really visible.

1258
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:08,549
Okay.

1259
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:15,109
» What's a motion? [laughter]

1260
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:16,880
» Julie, do you have um

1261
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,480
>> Julie's better at motions?

1262
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:19,680
>> And a motion for this one.

1263
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,079
>> Yeah, I'll I'm happy to make a motion.

1264
00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:26,640
Um, I move that we approve the the fence

1265
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,640
and the patio

1266
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:33,040
and that we as a commission

1267
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,000
state our

1268
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,480
displeasure with the building department

1269
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,240
for

1270
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:44,640
>> uh issuing a demolition permit. Um, you

1271
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,400
know, just as the statement that that

1272
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,400
should not that practice should not

1273
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:53,510
continue.

1274
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,119
» Second.

1275
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:56,400
>> I second.

1276
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:57,599
>> Okay.

1277
00:55:57,599 --> 00:55:57,839
>> Second.

1278
00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:00,240
>> Shirley first.

1279
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:02,240
>> Shirley second.

1280
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:04,160
All in favor or are you going to do roll

1281
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:04,480
call?

1282
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,160
>> Um, are we making a motion on the

1283
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,880
demolition itself?

1284
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,880
>> Yeah. Well, do we have to go beyond that

1285
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,079
and say we approve the demolition or can

1286
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:20,079
we just say that

1287
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:23,040
>> we didn't question.

1288
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:24,000
>> Okay, Lisa.

1289
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,079
>> Sure. You I you can do either. I I mean

1290
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:32,319
I think it might be helpful for the

1291
00:56:32,319 --> 00:56:34,160
record for you to make a decision if

1292
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,040
you're able to on the demolition, but

1293
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,799
>> or it could be a case of we don't have

1294
00:56:38,799 --> 00:56:39,839
enough information.

1295
00:56:39,839 --> 00:56:43,040
>> Yeah. You Right. I I think the most

1296
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,599
important point here is just to make

1297
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:47,280
sure the process

1298
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,040
>> is corrected

1299
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,720
>> and that you know that's I think that's

1300
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:56,480
where we kind of are as far as

1301
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,799
what we see. Um you know it could have

1302
00:57:00,799 --> 00:57:02,319
been presented in a lot of different

1303
00:57:02,319 --> 00:57:04,799
contexts. So I'm not sure.

1304
00:57:04,799 --> 00:57:07,040
>> Yeah. No, that's that's fair.

1305
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,640
>> Yeah.

1306
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,640
>> All right. So with the

1307
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,839
>> you can absolutely yeah you can I guess

1308
00:57:13,839 --> 00:57:16,640
>> include that maybe you know may you may

1309
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,559
not have enough information to make that

1310
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:19,680
determination right

1311
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,119
>> on the demolition

1312
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:22,720
>> because it is after the fact and you

1313
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:23,680
don't have

1314
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,280
>> right so I guess that's where I stand

1315
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,440
>> and that our goal from that is that a a

1316
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,280
message is

1317
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,040
comes out that the building department

1318
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,359
really needs to coordinate with Sarah's

1319
00:57:35,359 --> 00:57:35,839
office.

1320
00:57:35,839 --> 00:57:40,319
>> Yes. and um

1321
00:57:40,319 --> 00:57:41,680
these poor people had to come to the

1322
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,400
principal's office because of it. Um

1323
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,079
>> right.

1324
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:49,599
>> So our our our our motion is that we

1325
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:52,319
acknowledge that this demolition

1326
00:57:52,319 --> 00:57:54,640
happened. If we'd had a chance to review

1327
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,799
it more properly, we may have

1328
00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:01,839
a different outcome or we may I'm I'm

1329
00:58:01,839 --> 00:58:07,990
stumbling now. Um,

1330
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,920
» I think we would would have appreciated

1331
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,920
an opportunity to review it,

1332
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,280
>> right? We would have appreciated an

1333
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:14,720
opportunity to review it and hope that

1334
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,400
the building department hears this loud

1335
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,670
and clear.

1336
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,720
As for the fence, we find that that's

1337
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:23,920
acceptable and

1338
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,440
>> right

1339
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,440
>> and that the patio we can't see is not

1340
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,280
our business,

1341
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:30,079
>> right?

1342
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:33,670
>> That part out.

1343
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,839
Roll call vote. Miss Satderfields.

1344
00:58:37,839 --> 00:58:39,920
>> Yes.

1345
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,040
>> Miss Howard?

1346
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:41,839
>> Yes.

1347
00:58:41,839 --> 00:58:43,119
>> Miss Capazolei?

1348
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:43,680
>> Yes.

1349
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:44,880
>> Chair Sher?

1350
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:46,240
>> Yes.

1351
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,960
>> Resolution is passed.

1352
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:49,680
>> Thank you.

1353
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:50,480
>> All right.

1354
00:58:50,480 --> 00:59:04,710
>> Thank you guys.

1355
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,920
All right. Next up, courtesy review for

1356
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:16,230
the Princeton Battlefield State Park.

1357
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,079
» Small correction to the agenda. This is

1358
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:21,200
more of a presentation than a review.

1359
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,359
Um, but the commission is of course open

1360
00:59:23,359 --> 00:59:25,920
to provide comments. I'm

1361
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,559
>> I'm sorry. It's a This is a

1362
00:59:28,559 --> 00:59:29,520
presentation.

1363
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,520
>> Presentation.

1364
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:39,109
Okay. I Right. I was reading it.

1365
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:41,359
Well, welcome everybody. Lisa's about to

1366
00:59:41,359 --> 00:59:45,680
um get you all started.

1367
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,319
Just a presentation.

1368
00:59:48,319 --> 00:59:50,319
All right. And we're I guess we're

1369
00:59:50,319 --> 00:59:52,319
looking to see if we can get your audio

1370
00:59:52,319 --> 00:59:56,240
video stuff up. I see Sarah's down the

1371
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:57,359
hall. pressure on.

1372
00:59:57,359 --> 01:00:04,870
>> Oh, look at that.

1373
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:05,520
» Aha,

1374
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,349
>> I saw it.

1375
01:00:09,359 --> 01:00:11,359
» All right. We don't need to be swearing

1376
01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:12,960
you in, but if you all as a group would

1377
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,440
like to introduce yourselves for the for

1378
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,440
the community, for the panel, and then

1379
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,400
we'll just take it from there.

1380
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:21,520
>> Go ahead.

1381
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,000
>> Hi, my name is L. Mcnite. I'm a state

1382
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,839
and local government relations manager

1383
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:28,319
for the American Battlefield Trust. I

1384
01:00:28,319 --> 01:00:30,000
cover the state of New Jersey and spend

1385
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,599
a lot of time up here in Princeton. It's

1386
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:33,280
one of my favorite places to come and

1387
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:34,720
I'm very excited about the project that

1388
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,000
we're working on together.

1389
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,920
I'm Will Krakower. I'm the resource

1390
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:41,760
interpretive specialist for the New

1391
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,119
Jersey Department of Environmental

1392
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:45,040
Protection, Division of Parks, Forests,

1393
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,200
and Historic Sites, which is the long

1394
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,880
way of saying I am the chief historian

1395
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:50,079
and site manager for Princeton

1396
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:53,200
Battlefield State Park.

1397
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,119
I'm Ben Strong, president of the

1398
01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:57,119
Princeton Battlefield Society and I've

1399
01:00:57,119 --> 01:00:58,319
been on the board of the Princeton

1400
01:00:58,319 --> 01:01:03,349
Battlefield Society since 2003.

1401
01:01:03,359 --> 01:01:05,920
» Sorry, six.

1402
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,200
>> Pleasure to be here with you. My name is

1403
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:08,640
Glenn Stack. I'm a preservation

1404
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,280
landscape architect, a consultant to the

1405
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,280
American Battlefield Trust, speaking

1406
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,920
today on the topic of cultural landscape

1407
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:24,069
preservation. Thank you.

1408
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:26,880
All right. So, I'm kicking it off. Uh,

1409
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,000
for those of you uh who have not visited

1410
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,599
the battlefield, I'm certain you've

1411
01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:34,079
driven through it. Uh, it is obviously

1412
01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:36,640
an important part of our nation's

1413
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:38,559
history, the world's history, but more

1414
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:41,760
specifically of Princeton's history. Uh,

1415
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,920
if you want to just hit that real quick.

1416
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,079
Uh, a brief overview in case you are

1417
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:48,319
unaware of the importance of this site.

1418
01:01:48,319 --> 01:01:50,000
The Battle of Princeton occurred on the

1419
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,880
morning of January the 3rd, 1777. We are

1420
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:54,559
now less than six months away from the

1421
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:57,599
250th anniversary of that date. It is

1422
01:01:57,599 --> 01:01:59,280
the third and final battle in what

1423
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,280
became known as the 10 crucial days

1424
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,040
campaign, which began with Washington's

1425
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:04,400
crossing of the Delaware River on

1426
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,640
Christmas night, 1776.

1427
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,559
Nine days of fighting and maneuvering

1428
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,880
later, General Washington commits what

1429
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,119
we call a rudigare, a ruse of war and

1430
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:15,200
marches overnight from Trenton to

1431
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,839
Princeton and catches the rear guard

1432
01:02:17,839 --> 01:02:20,240
stationed here at Princeton on the

1433
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,079
morning of the third fighting this

1434
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:25,280
climactic action. It cements

1435
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,480
Washington's uh reputation as a

1436
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,119
commanding general of the army and it

1437
01:02:31,119 --> 01:02:33,280
also seals uh what I like to call the

1438
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,359
first chapter of the American Revolution

1439
01:02:35,359 --> 01:02:37,440
in favor of the Continental Army and

1440
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,520
keeps the flame of independence from

1441
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,119
growing out uh prematurely.

1442
01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:46,880
Our story begins uh much much later in

1443
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,480
2016. the uh Institute for Advanced

1444
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,280
Study was beginning a project to

1445
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,760
construct new faculty housing on the

1446
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,599
property adjacent to the battlefield

1447
01:02:57,599 --> 01:03:01,359
known as Maxwell's Field. Uh it had

1448
01:03:01,359 --> 01:03:04,079
gotten almost all the way through when

1449
01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:05,760
the American Battlefield Trust, then

1450
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:07,599
known as the Civil War Trust, became

1451
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:09,839
involved and offered to broker an

1452
01:03:09,839 --> 01:03:12,559
agreement with the IAS uh for the

1453
01:03:12,559 --> 01:03:14,319
property what uh will become known as

1454
01:03:14,319 --> 01:03:16,960
Maxwell's Fields. uh what could have

1455
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,039
been just a small sign and a new trail

1456
01:03:21,039 --> 01:03:22,799
uh on this property next to the

1457
01:03:22,799 --> 01:03:25,200
battlefield instead became something

1458
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:27,200
that's wholly unique for the New Jersey

1459
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,119
State Park Service and something truly

1460
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:30,960
wonderful in the world of historic

1461
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,559
preservation. By 2022, just a few years

1462
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:37,520
later, uh we had conducted an

1463
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,480
interpretive plan for the park which had

1464
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,720
a vision for what the park would one day

1465
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,520
become. It included new trails. It

1466
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,720
included new fences uh and it included

1467
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,280
the possibility of a visitor and

1468
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,839
education center for the site. And we'll

1469
01:03:53,839 --> 01:03:55,599
talk a little more about uh the needs

1470
01:03:55,599 --> 01:03:57,839
for the site as we go forward. Uh

1471
01:03:57,839 --> 01:03:59,520
something that's been on my mind lately

1472
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,119
and maybe the rest of yours if you're

1473
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:03,440
avid baseball watchers is if you build

1474
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,799
it, they will come. This is an

1475
01:04:06,799 --> 01:04:10,480
incredible example of that. Uh I started

1476
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,920
at the battlefield in 2018. So right as

1477
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,599
the initial agreement uh kicked off uh

1478
01:04:17,599 --> 01:04:20,960
and in that time I started with about

1479
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,559
400 school children coming in per year.

1480
01:04:24,559 --> 01:04:28,400
We are now well over 5,000 per year. Uh

1481
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,799
because of that things have to change.

1482
01:04:30,799 --> 01:04:33,760
Uh Princeton Battlefield has largely

1483
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:37,039
suffered uh from what I politely call

1484
01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:40,720
benign neglect uh for a very long time.

1485
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,760
Uh maintenance has been deferred in

1486
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,400
every quadrant of the park for far too

1487
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,799
long. And we now find ourselves at that

1488
01:04:48,799 --> 01:04:52,079
wonderful and unique juncture between a

1489
01:04:52,079 --> 01:04:55,760
major uh commemorative event, the 250th,

1490
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,920
and back in the 2010s, the threat of

1491
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,039
development uh on the eastern side of

1492
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:03,599
the park.

1493
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:05,359
between the Department of Environmental

1494
01:05:05,359 --> 01:05:06,880
Protection, the American Battlefield

1495
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:08,400
Trust, and the Princeton Battlefield

1496
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,119
Society. We've come together uh to work

1497
01:05:11,119 --> 01:05:13,440
on bringing this interpretive plan to

1498
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,200
reality. We've created MOAs with each

1499
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,720
other going all the way back to 2023

1500
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,440
uh to fund raise for continued

1501
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,160
interpretation and the rehabilitation to

1502
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,559
the site and to preserve it uh support

1503
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:28,559
its preservation treatment moving

1504
01:05:28,559 --> 01:05:31,359
forward. Uh I'm sure it comes as no

1505
01:05:31,359 --> 01:05:34,079
surprise that managing a site like this

1506
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:36,079
is incredibly expensive and that the

1507
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:39,520
state's budget is not very big. Uh so we

1508
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,359
learned very quickly that we're going to

1509
01:05:41,359 --> 01:05:43,680
have to rely on the township. We're

1510
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,039
going to have to rely on private

1511
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:47,440
funding. Uh which is why this memorandum

1512
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,599
of understanding is so important. uh and

1513
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:51,920
that we're so grateful to have had uh

1514
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:53,599
the American Battlefield Trust hop on

1515
01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:55,280
and of course always continuously

1516
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,119
grateful for the Princeton Battlefield

1517
01:05:57,119 --> 01:06:00,160
Society's role in keeping us uh relevant

1518
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,440
within the community.

1519
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,559
There are four major projects uh that

1520
01:06:06,559 --> 01:06:09,039
have come to shape the most recent

1521
01:06:09,039 --> 01:06:10,559
rehabilitation

1522
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:12,720
uh project and you probably noted I keep

1523
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,480
using the phrase rehabilitation. We

1524
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,359
cannot use the word restoration. Uh,

1525
01:06:17,359 --> 01:06:19,280
restoration means that we would actually

1526
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,359
have physical evidence or a photograph

1527
01:06:21,359 --> 01:06:22,640
of something that we're going to

1528
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,400
recreate. And as I'm sure you're well

1529
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,160
aware, there are no cameras in 1776.

1530
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,400
So, we're going based on handdrawn maps

1531
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,720
and paintings of the time, uh, as well

1532
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,520
as archaeology and primary source

1533
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:37,680
accounts written by the men and women

1534
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:39,520
who were actually living here in

1535
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:41,280
Princeton and what was actually not

1536
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:42,799
Princeton, but the Quaker settlement of

1537
01:06:42,799 --> 01:06:46,000
Stony Brook 250 years ago. The two

1538
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,520
projects we want to highlight for you

1539
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,280
today is what we call project one,

1540
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,760
trees, trails, fields, and fences, and

1541
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:53,359
project four, which involves the

1542
01:06:53,359 --> 01:06:55,760
Maxwell's field rehabilitation. The

1543
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,119
other two projects uh are largely being

1544
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:02,880
uh conducted by the NJ DP. Uh as a brief

1545
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,520
overview, as I mentioned, our visitation

1546
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:07,599
has increased exponentially over the

1547
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:11,359
last several years. Uh we need to take

1548
01:07:11,359 --> 01:07:14,400
away some of the uh onus on the Thomas

1549
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,720
Clark house which is an original witness

1550
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:18,640
structure to the battle now over well

1551
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,680
over 250 years old. It cannot support

1552
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,599
that many people coming through and act

1553
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:25,920
as the site's sole visitor center and

1554
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,880
visitor contact station for much longer.

1555
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,599
Um, we also want a place to better tell

1556
01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:34,720
the story, the full story, not only of

1557
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,160
uh the fighting that occurred on the

1558
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:38,079
morning of the 3, but the story of the

1559
01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:40,319
Quaker settlement that was here and the

1560
01:07:40,319 --> 01:07:42,559
settlement in Princeton and the College

1561
01:07:42,559 --> 01:07:44,720
of New Jerseys role in the American

1562
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,920
Revolution as well. Uh, the new entry

1563
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:49,839
parking is also being covered by the

1564
01:07:49,839 --> 01:07:52,880
NJP. I am sure we will be coming to you

1565
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,319
in due time to discuss that.

1566
01:07:56,319 --> 01:07:58,720
So, go right ahead. So, I'll start where

1567
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,240
we always start and where I'm sure you

1568
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:01,920
always start too, which is the research.

1569
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,440
This is the earliest map of uh the

1570
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,280
battlefield as it existed at the time.

1571
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:08,880
There are certainly earlier maps of the

1572
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,039
area, but none of them have as much

1573
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:14,160
detail as this one. It was done in 1816

1574
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,719
by a man named James Wilkinson, who at

1575
01:08:16,719 --> 01:08:18,880
the time is a soldier in the Continental

1576
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,279
Army. uh when he wrote his memoirs, he

1577
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:23,759
came back to these places uh and did an

1578
01:08:23,759 --> 01:08:25,600
extensive amount of research on the maps

1579
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,839
and the troop movements as they existed.

1580
01:08:27,839 --> 01:08:29,920
Uh because this was the earliest map and

1581
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,560
it so very clearly depicted the orchard

1582
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,440
uh and not only the orchard but also uh

1583
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:37,279
what we know today as Mercer Road or

1584
01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:38,960
Princeton Pike which is running right

1585
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,080
down the m the center of the orchard. Uh

1586
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,560
we chose to use this as one of our

1587
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,080
primary sources for the location and the

1588
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,239
recreation of the orchard and a number

1589
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:52,239
of fence lines which you'll see in just

1590
01:08:52,239 --> 01:08:53,839
a moment uh where we're going to be

1591
01:08:53,839 --> 01:08:56,960
placing those.

1592
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,880
Uh and for those who aren't aware of the

1593
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:00,880
history of the Stony Brook settlements,

1594
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:02,400
uh you'll see a number of names up there

1595
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:04,239
that might sound familiar. Thomas Clark

1596
01:09:04,239 --> 01:09:06,159
being the one at the battlefield.

1597
01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:08,239
Benjamin Clark, the property today

1598
01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:11,359
largely owned by the IAS and the uh

1599
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:13,440
Historic Society of Princeton, the

1600
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:16,080
Quaker meeting house which has exactly

1601
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:17,920
the exact same square footage that it

1602
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:22,159
had uh 250 years ago in 1776. William

1603
01:09:22,159 --> 01:09:24,319
Clark to the east and to the north,

1604
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:26,480
Matthew Clark and Robert White who is

1605
01:09:26,480 --> 01:09:30,319
married into the Clark family as well. U

1606
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:32,960
go ahead. This is one of my favorite

1607
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,120
photographs of the park. It's one of the

1608
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:37,520
earliest aerial photographs taken in

1609
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,040
1945.

1610
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,440
It depicts the battlefield on its west

1611
01:09:41,440 --> 01:09:43,679
side looking east back towards town. If

1612
01:09:43,679 --> 01:09:45,040
you were to follow the road in the

1613
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,960
middle there, that's Mercer Road. It

1614
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:48,640
would take you all the way back to

1615
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,960
Princeton. Some notable features down on

1616
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:52,480
the bottom right where it says number

1617
01:09:52,480 --> 01:09:55,280
three is the Thomas Clark house and the

1618
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,920
barn. If you follow the driveway all the

1619
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,760
way back down towards the center of the

1620
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:01,520
photograph to Mercer Road, you'll note a

1621
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,600
number of small shrubs on the side of

1622
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,920
the road, those are the Norway spruces

1623
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,840
which today tower over the driveway at

1624
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:09,440
Princeton Battlefield State Park. They

1625
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:11,600
had been planted about a decade prior.

1626
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,080
Um, and if you look across the fields

1627
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,800
there, uh, on the upper left hand side,

1628
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,000
you might see, uh, David's house all the

1629
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,960
way in the back left corner. Uh but uh

1630
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:24,800
that number one spot there was

1631
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:26,400
recognized as the common grave where the

1632
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:28,560
mass grave is today. It's near where the

1633
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,480
colonade stands today. This photograph

1634
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:32,159
was taken about 10 years before the

1635
01:10:32,159 --> 01:10:34,320
colonade was moved. You can actually see

1636
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,000
it in the photograph just above number

1637
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,199
two. There is the Mercer Manor uh

1638
01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:41,280
sitting up there and the colonade is at

1639
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:42,960
the moment still attached to that

1640
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:44,640
building. [laughter]

1641
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,320
Go ahead.

1642
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:48,640
I like that image because we've used a

1643
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,040
similar vantage point for what we expect

1644
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:52,880
the battlefield will look like come the

1645
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:55,199
end of this year. What you're seeing all

1646
01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:57,679
the way on the top side of the image is

1647
01:10:57,679 --> 01:10:59,840
the faculty housing constructed by the

1648
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:01,199
Institute for Advanced Study. That

1649
01:11:01,199 --> 01:11:03,520
housing has concluded. Uh what you're

1650
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,199
seeing as you come down is the addition

1651
01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:07,520
of Maxwell's Field and the new trails

1652
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:11,360
that will link the existing park to the

1653
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:12,960
new section of the park which is slated

1654
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,679
to be added by the end of the year to

1655
01:11:15,679 --> 01:11:18,800
Princeton Battlefield. There are two

1656
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,880
tree lines in the if you go back to the

1657
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,280
previous one, two tree lines of note.

1658
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:25,440
The first is right where it says number

1659
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:27,040
four. That's of course the old Mercer

1660
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,120
Oak there. But that tree line today no

1661
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:30,960
longer exists. There are maybe three or

1662
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:32,560
four trees still standing along that

1663
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,040
tree line. It's important for us because

1664
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:36,640
it's the property boundary between

1665
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:38,239
Thomas Clark and his brother William

1666
01:11:38,239 --> 01:11:40,800
Clark. And the other boundary of note is

1667
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,000
just to the north of that. And uh so if

1668
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:45,920
you go look for number two and look

1669
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,880
down, follow that tree line there. That

1670
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,880
is a driveway which we recently

1671
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,400
discovered when doing work on the

1672
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:54,080
property. It's the original driveway of

1673
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:55,520
William Clark's home, which would have

1674
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,159
been somewhere in that mess of trees uh

1675
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:00,719
250 years ago.

1676
01:12:00,719 --> 01:12:02,560
And you can see it there with a few

1677
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,880
trees dotting that extent road uh

1678
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,360
structure. The fencing that you see in

1679
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:11,120
the image here is all historic. Uh it is

1680
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,320
chosen based on archaeology and maps of

1681
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:17,040
the area uh and descriptions from the

1682
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,199
soldiers and the Clark family and the

1683
01:12:19,199 --> 01:12:22,239
Hail family who followed them. One other

1684
01:12:22,239 --> 01:12:24,000
item of note which is worth mentioning,

1685
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,400
you'll see near the top left of the

1686
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:30,080
image is the apple orchard uh which is

1687
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,960
sort of the premier uh historic

1688
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,120
preservation project for us. The

1689
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,640
recreation of a commemorative orchard

1690
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:40,560
near the location of where the original

1691
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,120
orchard stood. Uh apple orchards are

1692
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:45,120
incredibly important to 18th century

1693
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,159
history. uh everybody who owned property

1694
01:12:48,159 --> 01:12:52,480
had one uh either for mass production

1695
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:55,520
mostly for their own con consumption or

1696
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,520
in some cases as I like to say mad

1697
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:59,760
scientists who like to breed different

1698
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:03,280
kinds of apples as a as a pastime. Uh it

1699
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,360
also plays of course a central role in

1700
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:06,800
the opening shots of the Battle of

1701
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:08,320
Princeton.

1702
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:10,000
With that I'm going to hand it over to

1703
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,320
Mr. Mcnite to tell us a little bit about

1704
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:13,360
our partnership.

1705
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,199
>> Great. Thanks Will. And uh yeah, I just

1706
01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:16,719
want to highlight here just how

1707
01:13:16,719 --> 01:13:18,320
important the partnerships are with the

1708
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:19,760
state of New Jersey, the Princeton

1709
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,600
Battlefield Society, and the American

1710
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,120
Battlefield Trust to making this whole

1711
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:24,719
reimagining Princeton plan come

1712
01:13:24,719 --> 01:13:26,640
together.

1713
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:28,320
Um just a little bit about the American

1714
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,400
Battlefield Trust. Uh we're a national

1715
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:32,960
nonpartisan nonprofit battlefield

1716
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:35,440
preservation organization dedicated to

1717
01:13:35,440 --> 01:13:37,920
preserving our nation's hollow ground

1718
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:40,000
from the Civil War, the Revolutionary

1719
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,040
War, and the War of 1812. Uh to date we

1720
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:46,000
have saved uh 63,000 acres across the

1721
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,040
nation across 25 different states. Uh we

1722
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:50,960
provide a wide variety of educational

1723
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:52,480
resources

1724
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:54,400
um on our website and on our YouTube

1725
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,800
channel um and have reached 40 million

1726
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:00,640
people uh annually um and uh so that's

1727
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:01,600
just a little bit about the American

1728
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,270
Battlefield Trust.

1729
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,199
Now, we originally, as Will mentioned,

1730
01:14:07,199 --> 01:14:10,080
were the Civil War Trust and only did

1731
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:11,760
Civil War battlefields. Princeton

1732
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:13,280
Battlefield was one of the first

1733
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,040
revolutionary battlefields that we came

1734
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:18,400
in and helped save land at. Uh, so as he

1735
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,080
mentioned, the Institute of Advanced

1736
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:21,920
Study was going to um build faculty

1737
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:23,440
housing. You can see the original

1738
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:25,840
footprint in the light blue there. Um,

1739
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:27,600
we were able to come in with a group of

1740
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,280
preservationists and actually reach an

1741
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,440
agreement. uh got them to revise the

1742
01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:33,920
footprint down to that dark blue oval up

1743
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,480
there where it currently sits. Uh and as

1744
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:38,320
a result were able to save Maxwell's

1745
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,280
Field, the site of Washington's charge

1746
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:42,719
where he, you know, led the charge

1747
01:14:42,719 --> 01:14:44,239
against the British, helping to turn the

1748
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:46,560
tide of the battle. Um and ultimately

1749
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,960
the American Revolution. Uh so this is

1750
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:50,960
very very important hollowed ground uh

1751
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,880
that we were a part of helping to save.

1752
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,040
Um, now as part of our phase one

1753
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:58,719
interpretive work at the battlefield,

1754
01:14:58,719 --> 01:15:00,239
we've done a a wide variety of things

1755
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:01,600
and I encourage you all to get out there

1756
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,760
and check them out if you haven't. Um,

1757
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,679
but in the top right you can see Will

1758
01:15:05,679 --> 01:15:07,199
actually interacting with the large

1759
01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:10,000
topographical map of the battlefield.

1760
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,600
And this is a very great feature. It

1761
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:13,440
actually you can use your phone scan the

1762
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:16,719
QR code and overlay troop movements on

1763
01:15:16,719 --> 01:15:19,040
the map. So I it's one of the best ways

1764
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,320
you can really learn about how the

1765
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:23,280
battle unfolded. Um, some really cool

1766
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:24,560
other features that we've got on the

1767
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:27,440
battlefield are the uh battle windows.

1768
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:29,280
So, we took a a painting of the Battle

1769
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:31,679
of Princeton and were able to overlay it

1770
01:15:31,679 --> 01:15:33,440
on the landscape of the Princeton

1771
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:35,440
battlefield. Uh, we have two of those

1772
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:37,600
now at the park and this is one of the

1773
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:38,880
coolest features I've seen at a

1774
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,800
battlefield and actually I think it's

1775
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:41,840
something that's going to spread to

1776
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:43,199
other battlefields across the country

1777
01:15:43,199 --> 01:15:46,719
with how popular it has been. Um, yes.

1778
01:15:46,719 --> 01:15:48,719
And, uh, you know, [clears throat] part

1779
01:15:48,719 --> 01:15:50,159
of the work we've done has also involved

1780
01:15:50,159 --> 01:15:51,679
archaeology.

1781
01:15:51,679 --> 01:15:53,760
um as part of the due diligence of any

1782
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:55,520
anytime we're you know the ground is

1783
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:56,560
being disturbed we're going to do

1784
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:58,880
archaeology there. Um found some very

1785
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:00,560
cool things there. One of the one of my

1786
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,159
personal favorites is the uh coin from

1787
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:04,320
the Jacobite rebellion uh that they

1788
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,159
found there featured in the center of

1789
01:16:06,159 --> 01:16:09,750
the picture here.

1790
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,000
Uh this photo just shows all of the

1791
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,239
archaeology that has gone on throughout

1792
01:16:14,239 --> 01:16:16,640
the years at the Princeton battlefield.

1793
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,040
Uh you can see in the in the red and the

1794
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:20,800
green all areas that have been looked at

1795
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,679
with the by archaeologists um notably

1796
01:16:23,679 --> 01:16:26,080
around the Clark house down in the south

1797
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:29,040
uh up near the orchard um and near where

1798
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:30,960
the institute of advanced study is as

1799
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:32,640
well. So just showing all the areas

1800
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,159
we've done archaeology at.

1801
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:37,840
uh Will mentioned this a little bit

1802
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,320
earlier, but uh sort of phase two of the

1803
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:42,320
project is the hopeful wish that we will

1804
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:44,400
have a visitor and education center at

1805
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:47,360
the Princeton battlefield so that um the

1806
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:49,120
Thomas Clark house no longer needs to

1807
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:51,840
serve as the uh sort of visitor center.

1808
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:53,520
It's a historic house and it's really

1809
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:55,120
not best equipped for that. We want to

1810
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:57,280
try to preserve that um and have a

1811
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:59,199
proper visitor and education center.

1812
01:16:59,199 --> 01:17:01,040
It'll be better to accommodate larger

1813
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,040
school groups uh and visitors. it'll

1814
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:04,880
hopefully attract more tourism to the

1815
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,520
town as well.

1816
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:09,760
Um, just looping in the theme of

1817
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,080
partners as well. Um, with the orchard,

1818
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:14,159
we brought in pomologists, apple

1819
01:17:14,159 --> 01:17:16,080
experts. I I just learned that word

1820
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,880
recently. um from Mount Vernon,

1821
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,280
Montichello, all sorts of historic sites

1822
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,159
to help advise how to best um you know

1823
01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:26,719
manage and steward this new orchard uh

1824
01:17:26,719 --> 01:17:28,480
that we plan to have placed at the

1825
01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:31,040
battlefield which is a very important

1826
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:32,560
feature of the battlefield to understand

1827
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,199
how the battle unfolded. Um that's what

1828
01:17:35,199 --> 01:17:36,880
we want is we want George Washington if

1829
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:38,159
he was to come back and look at the

1830
01:17:38,159 --> 01:17:40,000
battlefield he would recognize it as the

1831
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,000
battle of Princeton like he saw it back

1832
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,880
in the day.

1833
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:48,000
Um as part of the work goes on uh phase

1834
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,360
one uh also includes field management.

1835
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,000
Um so the trust has been working very

1836
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,400
hard to reduce mowing uh on the on the

1837
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,360
park uh and to bring back the natural

1838
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:02,159
biod diversity of the area. Uh the trust

1839
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:05,840
has a land stewardship uh expert that is

1840
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:07,920
uh leading the charge for us on this. Uh

1841
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,800
Tom Selli. uh he takes very careful uh

1842
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,320
work to make sure like any ground

1843
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,800
nesting birds and uh natural wildlife

1844
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,199
are not disturbed and actually enhancing

1845
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:19,360
the environment of Princeton through

1846
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:23,350
this work.

1847
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:26,080
Um and lastly here I'll I'll highlight

1848
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:27,920
the you know Will's personal favorite

1849
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,840
here the Battlefield Bioblitz. I don't

1850
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,600
know if you all have heard of it. Um,

1851
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:33,600
but we've partnered with Sustainable

1852
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,760
Princeton, the Friends of Princeton Open

1853
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,320
Space, and even Ruckers University, uh,

1854
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,560
to ultimate ultimately get people out to

1855
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,040
the battlefield and document the

1856
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:45,040
biodiversity that they see on the

1857
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,040
battlefield, and this will help inform

1858
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,440
future stewardship of the land. So,

1859
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:54,790
that's been a hit so far.

1860
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:55,520
» That's right.

1861
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,679
>> All right. And uh Ben, I'll go ahead and

1862
01:18:57,679 --> 01:18:58,960
let you talk about the Princeton

1863
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:01,840
Battlefield Society here. [laughter]

1864
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:05,360
>> Thanks. Um Princeton Battlefield Society

1865
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:06,880
has been here for quite a long time

1866
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:09,920
since the 1970s. In a nutshell, our job

1867
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:13,679
would be to protect, preserve, and

1868
01:19:13,679 --> 01:19:15,360
promote the Princeton Battlefield in the

1869
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:16,960
memory of the men who fought there

1870
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,199
because it is very much hollowed ground.

1871
01:19:19,199 --> 01:19:22,159
The uh American Revolution turns at the

1872
01:19:22,159 --> 01:19:23,679
Battle of Princeton in the favor of the

1873
01:19:23,679 --> 01:19:28,080
patriots. Having said that, uh, we have

1874
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,480
been promoting a very vigorous program

1875
01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:33,280
both on an educational sense and working

1876
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,199
with this tremendous team. As you can

1877
01:19:35,199 --> 01:19:37,679
see here, we're very energized. We're

1878
01:19:37,679 --> 01:19:40,159
very active and we're doing an awful lot

1879
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:41,440
of different things such as Young

1880
01:19:41,440 --> 01:19:43,440
Patriots Day, bringing the younger

1881
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:45,120
generation, experience the Battle of

1882
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,600
Princeton, which is our very large scale

1883
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,440
reenactment, which we're doing again

1884
01:19:49,440 --> 01:19:52,000
this year on December 27th. I should add

1885
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:54,159
last year we had about 3,500 people

1886
01:19:54,159 --> 01:19:56,640
there. Sorry, my voice is going with

1887
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,040
allergies. And uh that's the biggest

1888
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,840
crowd we've ever had for one of those.

1889
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:03,360
And I think this year it's going to be

1890
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:04,719
even bigger. And we have great

1891
01:20:04,719 --> 01:20:07,440
expectations for that event.

1892
01:20:07,440 --> 01:20:09,760
We also do tours on a regular basis for

1893
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,080
people often from out of state uh

1894
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,520
bringing in the uh the enthusiasts for

1895
01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:17,280
American history from all across the

1896
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,520
country. We have a CAD Walder lecture

1897
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:21,840
series where we do [clears throat] uh

1898
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:23,760
every couple of months, usually about

1899
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:25,360
every three months or so, a lecture from

1900
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,239
an author or or a historian, sometimes

1901
01:20:28,239 --> 01:20:30,640
other individuals on uh American the

1902
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:32,239
American Revolution or something to do

1903
01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:34,000
with Princeton.

1904
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:36,159
uh we've had a lot of success with that

1905
01:20:36,159 --> 01:20:39,040
and got a lot of attention for that

1906
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:41,760
and we just uh do whatever we can to

1907
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:43,280
bring the focus to the battle of

1908
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:45,120
Princeton which we uh feel has been

1909
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:47,440
somewhat overlooked over the years and

1910
01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:49,440
the group that we have here with our

1911
01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:52,480
agreement with the D and the ABT

1912
01:20:52,480 --> 01:20:54,719
American Battlefield Trust and the

1913
01:20:54,719 --> 01:20:57,679
Department of Environment Protection uh

1914
01:20:57,679 --> 01:21:00,000
we feel we have really got something

1915
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,000
going here that's really good not only

1916
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:03,600
for the battlefield but for Princeton

1917
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,000
for the state of New Jersey. So, it's a

1918
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:09,040
type of uh public private partnership

1919
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:11,840
that people want to have but often don't

1920
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:14,960
get. You sort of uh aspire to do what I

1921
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:16,640
think we're doing right now because

1922
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,440
we're really uh hitting on all eight

1923
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:22,480
cylinders. So, from our perspective, uh

1924
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:24,800
this is great stuff that's going on and

1925
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,520
uh we've had a great uh partnership as

1926
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,080
well with the township of Princeton. So,

1927
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:34,870
we're hoping that this can continue.

1928
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:36,880
Thank you, Ben.

1929
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:38,719
So, now on to the application for

1930
01:21:38,719 --> 01:21:41,520
project authorization. This is the um

1931
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,120
the document that was sent forward to

1932
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,840
the historic preservation office uh in

1933
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,080
Trenton, and you all received a copy of

1934
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,400
that. Specifically, what I wanted to

1935
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:52,320
provide just a context for the last sort

1936
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,520
of bit of additional context here is

1937
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:59,679
battlefields as cultural landscapes and right you you deal with historic

1938
01:21:59,679 --> 01:22:01,600
properties that come to you and those

1939
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,159
properties may be significant for a

1940
01:22:04,159 --> 01:22:06,960
historic event. It may be attributed to

1941
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,199
a historic designer. Uh it may be an

1942
01:22:09,199 --> 01:22:11,679
ethnographic landscape. Uh it may be a

1943
01:22:11,679 --> 01:22:13,280
vernacular landscape. All of those

1944
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:15,600
things come together uh in the same way

1945
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:18,480
for landscapes as they do for you know

1946
01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:20,960
elements of architecture as well. But

1947
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:23,280
cultural landscapes you know are defined

1948
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:26,320
as natural and cultural spaces that have

1949
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,280
been shaped by human interaction. Uh

1950
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:31,280
they are governed by the secretary of

1951
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:33,360
interior standards in the same way that

1952
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,280
the secretary of interior standards were

1953
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:38,400
written for buildings. But only recently

1954
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,199
in about the 1990s uh were those same

1955
01:22:41,199 --> 01:22:43,280
standards written to apply to

1956
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,560
landscapes. Uh so within the arc of

1957
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:49,440
preservation it's a relatively young uh

1958
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:52,080
discipline but again the this the same

1959
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:54,080
standards uphold

1960
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,719
we four treatments preservation

1961
01:22:56,719 --> 01:22:58,400
rehabilitation restoration and

1962
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:00,400
reconstruction which you see frequently

1963
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:03,679
to buildings as will mentioned this is a

1964
01:23:03,679 --> 01:23:06,639
rehabilitation uh rehabilitation largely

1965
01:23:06,639 --> 01:23:09,040
says protect what you inherit but

1966
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:12,480
repurpose for a new and compatible use

1967
01:23:12,480 --> 01:23:14,400
and when will tip you

1968
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,040
classified this as it could have just

1969
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:19,760
been a preservation action that started

1970
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:21,440
all of this, the preservation of 13

1971
01:23:21,440 --> 01:23:23,760
acres and someone puts up a sign and

1972
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,880
says we save this. But it has gone far

1973
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:29,600
beyond that. has been transformative on

1974
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,360
the part of the state, on the part of

1975
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:34,239
local partners and the local community

1976
01:23:34,239 --> 01:23:37,199
to make this something that really is

1977
01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:39,120
befitting of a national historic

1978
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:41,840
landmark battlefield, a best-in-class,

1979
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:45,360
globally significant site. So, as

1980
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:48,719
mentioned, the the study was done of the

1981
01:23:48,719 --> 01:23:51,040
archaeology, all of the the background

1982
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:53,199
research of both natural and cultural

1983
01:23:53,199 --> 01:23:55,840
resources completed. There are three

1984
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,159
principal movements. Uh the meadow

1985
01:23:58,159 --> 01:23:59,679
restoration

1986
01:23:59,679 --> 01:24:01,040
and I just want to say something you

1987
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:04,080
know from the standpoint of sustainable

1988
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:06,480
practices. There are roughly there are

1989
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:10,080
over 50 acres of land that are mowed

1990
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:11,199
bi-weekly.

1991
01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:12,320
>> Yeah. By

1992
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:15,600
>> bi-weekly. We have the opportunity now

1993
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,639
to take those 50 acres and create more

1994
01:24:18,639 --> 01:24:21,920
sustainable meadows that reinforce the

1995
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,440
individual properties, holdings, spatial

1996
01:24:25,440 --> 01:24:27,760
character of the historic period. When

1997
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:29,440
we talk about historic landscapes,

1998
01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:32,000
there's trees, there's structures, uh

1999
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:33,920
there's circulation, all of that's

2000
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,400
important, but spatial character is is a

2001
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:38,560
very significant contributing feature.

2002
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:40,320
and the establishment of the meadows

2003
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,440
will be transformative to that spatial

2004
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,639
character. Again, proposed species mix

2005
01:24:46,639 --> 01:24:49,520
looking at at both warm season grasses,

2006
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:52,880
native legumes, and pollinator species.

2007
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:57,600
Poundforpound, the acre of meadow

2008
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:02,000
restored. And and as naturalists, they say restoration, and they mean

2009
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,280
something entirely different than we

2010
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:05,280
would talk about from the standpoint of

2011
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,520
preservation. But a restored meadow

2012
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:10,400
pound-for-pound provides more oxygen

2013
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:13,840
than an acre of of trees. From that

2014
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,719
standpoint, the rate of oxygen, the deep

2015
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:20,000
root mass that is attributed to this not

2016
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,520
only supports the reinterpretation and a

2017
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,320
more authentic experience of that 1777

2018
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:27,840
condition, but it's better for the

2019
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:30,400
environment.

2020
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:32,960
We also looked at again three major

2021
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,280
movements. the historic William Clark

2022
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:37,760
Lane. On the far right was a tree survey

2023
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:40,560
that was conducted uh by Davy Resource

2024
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:43,199
Group that identified the condition of

2025
01:25:43,199 --> 01:25:45,840
that property line separating the IAS

2026
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:47,520
property now owned by the American

2027
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:49,679
Battlefield Trust and the State Park

2028
01:25:49,679 --> 01:25:53,920
property identified largely consists of

2029
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,600
ash trees, invasive trees, dead trees.

2030
01:25:57,600 --> 01:25:59,760
Uh but we we did an extensive study

2031
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:01,600
really over six months to look at at

2032
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,639
what's what to save. No large trees of

2033
01:26:04,639 --> 01:26:06,560
significance will be removed that aren't

2034
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:10,000
dead or ash. Uh from that standpoint,

2035
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,800
there are 219 trees proposed for

2036
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:15,760
removal. 40 of those are dead, 30 are

2037
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:20,239
ash, 35 are hazard trees. There are 115

2038
01:26:20,239 --> 01:26:23,040
regulated trees by your ordinance uh

2039
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:25,120
that are proposed for removal. We've

2040
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,880
worked closely with uh Taylor Saputo uh

2041
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:32,800
the t the arborist for the municipality

2042
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:36,239
uh and are working to far exceed the

2043
01:26:36,239 --> 01:26:38,080
planting the compensatory planting for

2044
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:39,920
the removals. Uh I think by the

2045
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,800
compensatory planting um we would be in

2046
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,000
the 100s range. were in were over 200

2047
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:47,520
and we're planting those on the east

2048
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:52,000
buffer uh adjacent to the IA property uh

2049
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:53,920
in the commemorative orchard as was

2050
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:56,080
discussed and then we've worked with the

2051
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,159
friends of Princeton open space to

2052
01:26:58,159 --> 01:27:00,960
identify an area that's been succumb to

2053
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:03,280
emerald ashbor and are planting 100

2054
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,840
trees there as well. Why would we do

2055
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,560
that and not you know plant them back at

2056
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:10,719
the battlefield in part is to steward

2057
01:27:10,719 --> 01:27:13,840
the resource. It's an archaeological,

2058
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:17,040
you know, sensitive resource. So, every

2059
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,199
tree that's planted, you know, in in the

2060
01:27:19,199 --> 01:27:21,280
eyes of the archaeologist is is

2061
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:23,600
injurious uh to that resource. So, how

2062
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:27,040
do we balance that in a way that's both

2063
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:29,280
respectful of nature and culture? All

2064
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:32,159
the trees planted back will be of native

2065
01:27:32,159 --> 01:27:35,520
varieties that are have provenence to

2066
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,400
Princeton. Last thing, the heirloom

2067
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:41,840
orchard. Uh, as Will mentioned, uh, you

2068
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:44,960
know, this is a topic in landscape that

2069
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,360
I will say is slightly different than

2070
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,440
buildings. In in a building, you would

2071
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:51,679
never build back a historic structure

2072
01:27:51,679 --> 01:27:54,560
that that was is no longer there. In

2073
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:56,239
most cases, you wouldn't do that.

2074
01:27:56,239 --> 01:27:59,600
Landscapes and trees and individual

2075
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:01,760
features like fences have a lifespan

2076
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:03,679
within the landscape. And when they

2077
01:28:03,679 --> 01:28:06,800
succumb, they are replaced within a

2078
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:08,159
cultural landscape. when there's

2079
01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:10,560
documentation to support that. And

2080
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:13,040
that's precisely what's proposed in the

2081
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,760
rehabilitation of an orchard. Uh as Will

2082
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,480
mentioned there on on the far side at

2083
01:28:18,480 --> 01:28:21,199
the end of the William Clark lane. Uh

2084
01:28:21,199 --> 01:28:22,880
we've worked with national experts,

2085
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:25,760
pomologists, which is a fun word to say.

2086
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,239
Uh and they have identified the heirloom

2087
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:31,280
species that have providence to

2088
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:35,199
Princeton in the mid 18th century. uh we

2089
01:28:35,199 --> 01:28:38,960
are supporting that with uh a collection

2090
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:41,840
of crab apples that will give structure

2091
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:44,880
to the orchard as it develops over time.

2092
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:46,639
These heirloom orchards and varieties

2093
01:28:46,639 --> 01:28:48,400
are grown to spec. You can't just run

2094
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,639
out to Lowe's and buy them. Um they are

2095
01:28:50,639 --> 01:28:53,520
grown specifically for this battlefield.

2096
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:56,719
Uh and the the community that has

2097
01:28:56,719 --> 01:28:58,880
congealed around this is really quite

2098
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:00,719
significant. They're writing a

2099
01:29:00,719 --> 01:29:03,600
management plan for this orchard that

2100
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:08,159
will span both staff overview uh hired

2101
01:29:08,159 --> 01:29:12,400
for hire consultation um to take care of

2102
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:15,360
the trees and then volunteer efforts

2103
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:16,800
spurred by the Princeton Battlefield

2104
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:19,120
Society, local garden clubs and others

2105
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,080
that are looking to care for this icon

2106
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:24,320
of nature and culture on the

2107
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:25,840
battlefield.

2108
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:28,000
So what was put forward uh to the

2109
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:32,000
historic preservation or sorry to the um

2110
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:34,000
historic preservation office is a

2111
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,480
collection of both uh if you see in the

2112
01:29:36,480 --> 01:29:39,199
far right hand corner

2113
01:29:39,199 --> 01:29:41,760
non ground disturbing activities and

2114
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:44,000
light ground disturbing activities. So

2115
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:48,159
when we say fields, fences, trees and

2116
01:29:48,159 --> 01:29:52,000
trails, these are, you know, low impact,

2117
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,000
high return when it comes to the

2118
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:57,840
rehabilitation of this space.

2119
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:00,480
This is a view of Maxwell's field as it

2120
01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:04,639
exists now. Again, you know, years of of

2121
01:30:04,639 --> 01:30:07,280
inattention here to be assessed and

2122
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:10,560
opened up to the public. Uh this is a

2123
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:13,280
view of course of the overall landscape

2124
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:15,440
character of the battlefield. Even in

2125
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:16,880
this photo, it looks a little bit

2126
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:19,040
different than it did a year ago. Uh

2127
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:22,080
these are the pathways that are now

2128
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:24,239
proposed uh and they're already being

2129
01:30:24,239 --> 01:30:27,440
moan to change the experience to make it

2130
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:29,679
more authentic uh and to interpret

2131
01:30:29,679 --> 01:30:32,080
features that no longer exist. This is

2132
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:34,960
the tree line that separates the IS

2133
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,280
property and the state park property.

2134
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:39,840
Right in the center of it is a very

2135
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,560
definable depression of the William

2136
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,040
Clark Lane. It went straight to his

2137
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:48,960
house. There are only two roads that run

2138
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:51,679
in that north south direction and they

2139
01:30:51,679 --> 01:30:55,040
both went to Clark's uh one to Thomas

2140
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:57,440
Clark and one to William Clark. And so

2141
01:30:57,440 --> 01:30:59,440
that exists in there that will remain as

2142
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:03,120
a living relic. Uh it also has small

2143
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:06,000
depressions for the hedge or fence lines

2144
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:08,480
that would have existed to support and

2145
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:12,480
protect that lane during the period.

2146
01:31:12,480 --> 01:31:14,960
Again conditions of of the current state

2147
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:18,400
of things at at the state. Um you know

2148
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:21,120
there are a lot of invasives and the

2149
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,080
biob blitz has you know provided a

2150
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,000
baseline to understand what the

2151
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:28,639
character of that landscape is today. Uh

2152
01:31:28,639 --> 01:31:30,880
and I'm happy to say that partners have

2153
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,040
signed an agreement to do a biob blitz

2154
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:35,760
every 5 years for the next five years

2155
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:38,480
just to demonstrate program efficacy. Uh

2156
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:39,920
so that should tell us, you know, how

2157
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:43,360
we're doing as new species are planted.

2158
01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:45,199
When we look at historic fence lines or

2159
01:31:45,199 --> 01:31:47,760
fence lines, there are are at minimum

2160
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:49,440
three

2161
01:31:49,440 --> 01:31:52,080
uh details. This is a non-historic fence

2162
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:56,159
line. So this is a five rail uh snake

2163
01:31:56,159 --> 01:31:58,159
rail fence.

2164
01:31:58,159 --> 01:32:00,560
and that's to to be placed in locations

2165
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:02,320
where there weren't historic fence

2166
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:04,480
lines, but you need the control of

2167
01:32:04,480 --> 01:32:07,120
vehicular access, those sorts of things.

2168
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:09,920
Uh there's a dilapidated trail that runs

2169
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:11,840
along that property line. Again, that

2170
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:14,320
historic William Clark Lane is right off

2171
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:16,400
screen to our right. That will be

2172
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:20,080
removed and again, new trails put in its

2173
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:23,280
place. Even today to the far left you

2174
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:26,880
can see the old property line between

2175
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:29,360
Thomas Clark to the right and William

2176
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,080
Clark to the left.

2177
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:35,040
And again these are the

2178
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:38,639
IAS properties that were built in 2019

2179
01:32:38,639 --> 01:32:41,520
uh and beyond. So additional uh trees

2180
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:43,840
will be planted along that buffer to

2181
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:47,520
support the screening of those lands.

2182
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:50,400
This is a snapshot of the wood lots uh

2183
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:52,080
that are over at Mountain Lakes, an area

2184
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,719
that has succumbed to emerald ashbor.

2185
01:32:54,719 --> 01:32:56,239
And we'll we will be working with them

2186
01:32:56,239 --> 01:32:59,520
to plant 100 trees there. And that's a

2187
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:01,760
location within Mountain Lakes to show

2188
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:04,800
in that circular area the uh roughly

2189
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:08,639
halfacre portion of land.

2190
01:33:08,639 --> 01:33:12,080
This is an area of the proposed meadow

2191
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:14,880
restorations. Uh and so these will go

2192
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:18,560
through a process of

2193
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,040
controlled burns or prescribed burns and

2194
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:22,880
working with the state forest service

2195
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:25,360
who will be managing that project. Uh

2196
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:27,120
the locality and and working with the

2197
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:29,199
planning office here is very excited

2198
01:33:29,199 --> 01:33:31,040
about that. This would be the first of

2199
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:35,040
its kind uh in Princeton. Uh it is you

2200
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:36,719
know absolutely essential from an

2201
01:33:36,719 --> 01:33:39,920
ecosystem standpoint uh to contribute to

2202
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,280
the rehabilitation of this site.

2203
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:45,840
again the historic fence lines. So this

2204
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:48,239
would be along the the old historic

2205
01:33:48,239 --> 01:33:50,400
roads and lanes.

2206
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:52,159
We saw the non-historic and then these

2207
01:33:52,159 --> 01:33:54,480
are the five rail post and rail fences

2208
01:33:54,480 --> 01:33:57,040
that are out there today that are also

2209
01:33:57,040 --> 01:34:01,040
documented from a historic standpoint.

2210
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:03,600
And then lastly the location of

2211
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:06,239
additional trees to be planted along the

2212
01:34:06,239 --> 01:34:09,040
IAS buffer.

2213
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,600
And with that, that is the the end of of

2214
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:13,920
our review today. We're happy to answer

2215
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,400
any additional questions or comments

2216
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:19,440
that you have in in review and I'll

2217
01:34:19,440 --> 01:34:21,280
point it to the state or to the American

2218
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:23,440
Battlefield Trust accordingly. So, thank

2219
01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:27,830
you for your time.

2220
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:30,080
» Wow, that was a great presentation and I

2221
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:31,600
kind of know some of these pieces, but

2222
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:33,600
this was to see it all together is is

2223
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:36,239
really great. Um, does anybody have any

2224
01:34:36,239 --> 01:34:39,040
questions or comments or

2225
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:39,520
very exciting?

2226
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:41,520
>> I have comments. Do you hear me?

2227
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:41,920
>> Yes.

2228
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:42,960
>> Yep.

2229
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:45,760
>> This is Shirley. Um, first of all, thank

2230
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:48,639
you gentlemen. Um, when I was in

2231
01:34:48,639 --> 01:34:50,960
elementary school, when they integrated

2232
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:53,120
the schools and I was at the elementary

2233
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:56,000
school on Nassau Street, um, our history

2234
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:58,159
was about Princeton history and we were

2235
01:34:58,159 --> 01:35:01,280
taken to the battlefield and I remember

2236
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:04,480
a cannon and cannonballs that were

2237
01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:08,159
shaped like a um, shaped in order. What

2238
01:35:08,159 --> 01:35:10,239
happened to those cannons and that

2239
01:35:10,239 --> 01:35:12,000
cannonball cuz it had been there for

2240
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:13,120
years.

2241
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:15,440
>> That's the the million-dollar question,

2242
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:17,120
believe it or not. Uh, we don't know

2243
01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:19,440
what happened to those cannon balls. No

2244
01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:21,120
one seems to know the straight answer.

2245
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:22,960
My theory is that they're currently in

2246
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:25,520
the basement of the state museum in

2247
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:28,639
Trenton. Um, those were Civil War era

2248
01:35:28,639 --> 01:35:31,440
cannonballs and at some point somebody

2249
01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:33,520
decided to take them off of the field.

2250
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:35,760
Uh, the one cannon that used to be out

2251
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:37,520
there is actually still there, but it's

2252
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:39,520
not in the same spot. It's now on the

2253
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:42,400
porch of the Clark house uh in a new

2254
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:44,880
sort of carriage for it. uh the old one

2255
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,760
having broken um and probably when you

2256
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:50,320
were there uh it was on its side sitting

2257
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:52,639
in the dirt for some time. But yeah,

2258
01:35:52,639 --> 01:35:54,480
that's the million-dollar question. Uh I

2259
01:35:54,480 --> 01:35:55,679
get that one a lot. Where are the

2260
01:35:55,679 --> 01:35:57,600
cannonballs? Um and uh

2261
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:00,159
>> they were they were up on a hill and you

2262
01:36:00,159 --> 01:36:03,600
could it looks like they were facing the land.

2263
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:05,520
>> They were they were placed near the site

2264
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,440
where General Mercer was believed to

2265
01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:10,800
have fallen. Um yeah uh that monument

2266
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:12,560
when we did the archaeology we found

2267
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:15,120
some evidence of the concrete uh of the

2268
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:17,040
original uh monument. So we know exactly

2269
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:19,600
where it was. Uh it's just a question of

2270
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:21,920
when did those disappear

2271
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:24,880
uh and where did they go and the state

2272
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:26,719
actually does not know [laughter] what

2273
01:36:26,719 --> 01:36:29,760
happened to them. Um so come back to me

2274
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:31,600
soon. That's that's my white whale. I'll

2275
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:33,199
find them eventually.

2276
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:35,199
>> I also want to thank the lady. I don't

2277
01:36:35,199 --> 01:36:38,639
know who the lady is that regrrew the uh

2278
01:36:38,639 --> 01:36:41,840
Mercer tree, but it's beautiful.

2279
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:43,440
>> Yes. Yeah. One of our neighbors from

2280
01:36:43,440 --> 01:36:46,960
Parkside Drive is responsible for uh

2281
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:50,159
that 1980s repopulation of the oak. Uh

2282
01:36:50,159 --> 01:36:51,520
so the one that's sitting there out

2283
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:54,080
there today, we lovingly call Mercer Oak

2284
01:36:54,080 --> 01:36:57,119
Jr. or baby Mercer Oak. Uh she's over 50

2285
01:36:57,119 --> 01:36:58,719
years old now, so she's not a baby

2286
01:36:58,719 --> 01:37:01,360
anymore, but she is beautiful. Uh right

2287
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:03,040
now Mercer Oaki the third is currently

2288
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:05,520
growing in my office uh getting ready

2289
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:07,280
for replanting somewhere on the field

2290
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:08,639
soon.

2291
01:37:08,639 --> 01:37:10,800
>> Well, I like going down Mercer. I always

2292
01:37:10,800 --> 01:37:12,480
go that way because it's beautiful. But

2293
01:37:12,480 --> 01:37:13,840
I want to know what's happening to the

2294
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:16,800
grass cuz the grass is all brown now.

2295
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:18,480
>> Yeah, that's what we were just talking

2296
01:37:18,480 --> 01:37:21,600
about. We're letting the grass grow out

2297
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:24,080
as part of this sustainable

2298
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:26,320
uh programming for the nature of the

2299
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:28,960
site. Um eventually what you're going to

2300
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:31,360
see happen and actually quite soon we

2301
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:33,040
hope is that all of that is going to be

2302
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:35,840
knocked back down uh and then treated

2303
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:39,199
and prepared for a prescribed burn. Uh

2304
01:37:39,199 --> 01:37:41,679
once the burn takes place, we will then

2305
01:37:41,679 --> 01:37:45,119
be able to sew uh a um what is it

2306
01:37:45,119 --> 01:37:46,239
called? Winter wheat.

2307
01:37:46,239 --> 01:37:47,440
>> Well, well, we're going to grow winter

2308
01:37:47,440 --> 01:37:50,400
wheat. a starter uh crop, a starter

2309
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:53,119
crop, which is winter wheat, which u

2310
01:37:53,119 --> 01:37:54,800
interestingly enough is actually what

2311
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:56,400
was growing at the battlefield at the

2312
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,320
time of the battle was winter wheat. Uh

2313
01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:01,679
once that winter wheat comes up, uh we

2314
01:38:01,679 --> 01:38:04,960
will then make the transition from crop

2315
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:09,360
to natural meadow and natural grass. So

2316
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:12,800
wild flowers, pollinators, legumes, uh

2317
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,119
grasses that are all native to New

2318
01:38:15,119 --> 01:38:18,560
Jersey will take the place of uh some of

2319
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:21,840
those larger swats of land. Uh and as we

2320
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:25,119
continue our progress years, you know, a

2321
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:26,719
few more years down the road with the

2322
01:38:26,719 --> 01:38:29,520
creation of the uh visitors center and

2323
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:31,119
the removal of the current parking lot

2324
01:38:31,119 --> 01:38:33,040
and the making of the new parking lot,

2325
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:35,440
we'll open more land for the open space

2326
01:38:35,440 --> 01:38:37,520
that a lot of Princonians are used to

2327
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:39,600
for flying their kites and and

2328
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:41,280
picnicking. And we're going to enhance

2329
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:43,600
that area for our visitors as well. It's

2330
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:45,440
a delicate balance between this is

2331
01:38:45,440 --> 01:38:48,080
hallowed ground. People fought and bled

2332
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:51,119
and died here for an idea. uh that all

2333
01:38:51,119 --> 01:38:53,280
men were created equal and at the same

2334
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:55,440
time it's one of the few places with

2335
01:38:55,440 --> 01:38:57,600
open space left in Mercer County and New

2336
01:38:57,600 --> 01:38:59,920
Jersey. Uh so we have to straddle that

2337
01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:02,080
line very very carefully. Uh and we do

2338
01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:03,840
have people's thoughts in minds. So

2339
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:07,280
thank you for your input on the grass.

2340
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:09,840
>> Thank you. One other thing, Kip Cherry

2341
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:12,400
who grew up in Princeton is a very is

2342
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:14,639
quite an advocate for the battleground.

2343
01:39:14,639 --> 01:39:17,280
>> She's sitting right back here.

2344
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:18,480
>> Kip Cherry's there.

2345
01:39:18,480 --> 01:39:20,800
>> Yeah, she's here. [laughter] Oh, okay.

2346
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:27,430
Thank you. A word for Kip.

2347
01:39:27,440 --> 01:39:29,440
» Any other commission members want to

2348
01:39:29,440 --> 01:39:31,520
comment or ask any questions?

2349
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:34,239
>> I had a quick comment. Um, I wear two

2350
01:39:34,239 --> 01:39:37,119
hats because I've been a member of the

2351
01:39:37,119 --> 01:39:39,760
commission since 2003, but I've also

2352
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:41,679
been a member of the Princeton Friends

2353
01:39:41,679 --> 01:39:47,760
meeting since 2005. So, um, we're

2354
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:51,040
very happy. I think from a preservation

2355
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:53,679
perspective, all the work you're doing,

2356
01:39:53,679 --> 01:39:55,600
it's tremendously

2357
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:59,040
exciting and enriching our community.

2358
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:01,360
And from the Princeton friends meeting,

2359
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:02,880
I think you guys have been very

2360
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,719
respectful and very um aware of the

2361
01:40:06,719 --> 01:40:08,800
Quaker history in our our town,

2362
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:12,320
especially with the Clarks and the

2363
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:15,679
neighboring um cemetery and meeting

2364
01:40:15,679 --> 01:40:20,560
house and um the the friends the land

2365
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:23,520
that you know they used to worship

2366
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:26,800
there. So um we also appreciate your

2367
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:29,679
consideration and sensitivity to our our

2368
01:40:29,679 --> 01:40:31,040
meeting. So thank you.

2369
01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:33,360
>> It's our pleasure. It has been and

2370
01:40:33,360 --> 01:40:37,199
remains my uh interpretive

2371
01:40:37,199 --> 01:40:39,600
uh philosophy that the battle of

2372
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:42,800
Princeton is 0001%

2373
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,119
of the life of [snorts] that land and

2374
01:40:45,119 --> 01:40:47,040
that the rest of the time in that period

2375
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:48,400
it belongs to somebody. It was

2376
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:50,080
somebody's home. It was somebody's place

2377
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:52,320
of worship. So, our story begins not

2378
01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:54,320
with George Washington crossing the

2379
01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:57,040
Delaware, but with the people who lived

2380
01:40:57,040 --> 01:40:58,800
in this land. And that's what visitors

2381
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:00,159
get when they come to the Clark House

2382
01:41:00,159 --> 01:41:01,840
and what we hope they'll get in our

2383
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:03,040
future visitors center.

2384
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:06,000
>> And and we have had at the meeting some

2385
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:08,480
ancestors from the Clark family that

2386
01:41:08,480 --> 01:41:11,840
have come by to to visit us. So, yeah,

2387
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:13,840
>> it's we saw that they came by a couple

2388
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:15,440
weeks ago or a month or so ago. They

2389
01:41:15,440 --> 01:41:16,080
were awesome.

2390
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:21,350
>> Yeah.

2391
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:23,119
Well, thank you very much. I really

2392
01:41:23,119 --> 01:41:25,040
enjoyed that presentation. I can't wait

2393
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:27,040
to see

2394
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:29,920
um what all that happens and and that

2395
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:35,040
people can know more and more about what what happened here.

2396
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:37,465
>> Plus, it's fun to say pomologist.

2397
01:41:37,465 --> 01:41:38,159
[laughter]

2398
01:41:38,159 --> 01:41:39,520
>> Yeah. New f everybody's new favorite

2399
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:43,189
word, pomologist.

2400
01:41:43,199 --> 01:41:44,560
» Thank you very much. Thank you for your

2401
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:44,800
time.

2402
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:47,679
>> I wanted to add just one thing quickly.

2403
01:41:47,679 --> 01:41:50,000
Um, I wrote a brief memo that basically

2404
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:52,159
just summarized like, "Hey, you guys are

2405
01:41:52,159 --> 01:41:55,520
coming in." Um, but

2406
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:57,360
wanted to emphasize the importance of

2407
01:41:57,360 --> 01:41:59,760
this is a

2408
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:02,159
heavily designated property. It's a

2409
01:42:02,159 --> 01:42:05,440
state park. It's a It's listed on the

2410
01:42:05,440 --> 01:42:06,960
state and national register. It's a

2411
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:08,719
national historic landmark. It's locally

2412
01:42:08,719 --> 01:42:10,400
designated. So there's a lot of eyes on

2413
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:12,239
this and p public and private

2414
01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:14,800
partnerships, volunteer organizations

2415
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,119
working together for for this important

2416
01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:20,639
stewardship project. I'm very excited

2417
01:42:20,639 --> 01:42:22,800
and interested in the controlled burn. I

2418
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:24,400
think that will be very educational and

2419
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:26,480
helpful the community for how important

2420
01:42:26,480 --> 01:42:28,480
that is to the environment and how it

2421
01:42:28,480 --> 01:42:31,119
can benefit

2422
01:42:31,119 --> 01:42:32,719
>> the ecology and the

2423
01:42:32,719 --> 01:42:35,679
>> bio systems. Yeah. Um, I'm excited for

2424
01:42:35,679 --> 01:42:39,360
the nerdy history apples and maybe

2425
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:41,040
potentially in the future nerdy history

2426
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:43,360
cider, but we'll see. Got got to grow

2427
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:46,400
those trees first. Um, but I also want

2428
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:48,880
to point out the importance of this

2429
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:50,800
project going forward and the parties

2430
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,119
involved on it here at the state and the

2431
01:42:53,119 --> 01:42:56,159
local level. Um because we do currently

2432
01:42:56,159 --> 01:42:59,600
have a federal administration that is

2433
01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:02,320
trying to update the section 106

2434
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:06,080
regulations to roll them back to not

2435
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:08,000
respect

2436
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:09,520
anything that is essentially not the

2437
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:11,280
built environment. So it's going to

2438
01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:13,520
impact cultural landscapes. So to have

2439
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:15,679
this in place and to have us all working

2440
01:43:15,679 --> 01:43:17,920
together on this is significant and

2441
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:20,960
important. And I like that we're

2442
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:23,440
doing this together and moving forward.

2443
01:43:23,440 --> 01:43:25,600
I think. Yeah, you're here. Everyone is

2444
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:27,040
uh like mind with you. So,

2445
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:27,600
>> yes.

2446
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:28,400
>> Yeah.

2447
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:30,080
>> All right. Thank you guys.

2448
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:32,880
>> Thank you.

2449
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:34,400
Sarah, for those remarks.

2450
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:42,561
Perfect. Thank you.

2451
01:43:42,571 --> 01:43:45,189
[laughter]

2452
01:43:45,199 --> 01:43:48,629
» Up next,

2453
01:43:48,639 --> 01:43:53,280
concept review for 57 Birch Avenue.

2454
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:55,920
uh on technology here for the laptop.

2455
01:43:55,920 --> 01:44:13,189
Should I just plug it in here or do we have a thumb drive we can provide?

2456
01:44:13,199 --> 01:44:15,840
» We also have old school handouts if this

2457
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:42,719
does not work.

2458
01:44:42,719 --> 01:46:13,750
You want

2459
01:46:13,760 --> 01:47:24,149
Okay.

2460
01:47:24,159 --> 01:47:26,480
We have a problem with my law firms over

2461
01:47:26,480 --> 01:47:29,360
active security on his videos. Not we

2462
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:34,470
could hand these out.

2463
01:47:34,480 --> 01:47:38,390
» Yep. These are all handouts.

2464
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:40,400
» Yep.

2465
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:43,040
>> I apologize to Shirley because she's not

2466
01:47:43,040 --> 01:48:01,510
going to have

2467
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:03,280
Hold on, folks. We may have the

2468
01:48:03,280 --> 01:50:32,950
technology solved here.

2469
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:34,880
All right. Thank you very much and I

2470
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:36,560
apologize for our technical

2471
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:38,719
difficulties. Uh my name is Kevin Moore

2472
01:50:38,719 --> 01:50:41,760
with the firm of Stevens and Lee and I

2473
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:45,920
represent our applicant Gray 35 LLC

2474
01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:48,880
which is owned by John Shadid and Yuma

2475
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:51,119
Shaded. They live in Lebanon, as in the

2476
01:50:51,119 --> 01:50:53,040
country, not the township. So, they

2477
01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:56,560
could not be here this evening. Um, they

2478
01:50:56,560 --> 01:50:59,040
purchased the property on October 30th,

2479
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:02,080
2025, and the property is 57 Birch

2480
01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:06,400
Avenue. It's block 6902, lot 24 on the

2481
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:09,360
municipality tax map. It's approximately

2482
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:11,520
5,999

2483
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:14,080
square feet in area. It's in the R9

2484
01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:16,491
zoning district of the old township.

2485
01:51:16,491 --> 01:51:18,320
[snorts] It's in the Weather Witherspoon

2486
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:20,400
Jackson Historic District, which is why

2487
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:23,119
we're here this evening. The house in

2488
01:51:23,119 --> 01:51:27,199
its existing condition now is 2,183

2489
01:51:27,199 --> 01:51:30,080
square ft. It has two stories plus a

2490
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:33,280
finished attic. It had three units on

2491
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:35,199
the property record card, but there's

2492
01:51:35,199 --> 01:51:38,000
only it's only zoned for single family

2493
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:39,599
will be appearing before the zoning

2494
01:51:39,599 --> 01:51:44,239
board. Um and uh it when my clients

2495
01:51:44,239 --> 01:51:46,320
purchased the property had an illegal

2496
01:51:46,320 --> 01:51:49,440
occupancy of about 30 people that it is

2497
01:51:49,440 --> 01:51:52,719
now empty and they have uh it was in

2498
01:51:52,719 --> 01:51:55,599
terrible condition uh and they have uh

2499
01:51:55,599 --> 01:51:57,280
removed much of the damaged and

2500
01:51:57,280 --> 01:51:59,679
dilapidated interior

2501
01:51:59,679 --> 01:52:02,080
uh and we're seeking concept review. And

2502
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:04,719
I just want to clarify before Jason Viko

2503
01:52:04,719 --> 01:52:07,119
our architect uh goes into this in

2504
01:52:07,119 --> 01:52:09,920
detail. This is a rehabilitation and

2505
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:12,560
investment project. There's no no change

2506
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:14,639
whatever whatsoever proposed to the

2507
01:52:14,639 --> 01:52:16,960
building footprint. No change to the

2508
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:19,280
building envelope. There's some minor

2509
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:22,560
demolition and inind reconstruction of a

2510
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:25,440
very severely damaged rear wall. And the

2511
01:52:25,440 --> 01:52:27,520
plan is to refurbish the exterior as

2512
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:29,119
we'll show you this evening and

2513
01:52:29,119 --> 01:52:31,119
refurbish the interior with three

2514
01:52:31,119 --> 01:52:33,119
apartment units. I have two

2515
01:52:33,119 --> 01:52:34,880
professionals presenting this evening.

2516
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:37,440
And the first is Jason Elviko, our

2517
01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:40,159
project architect, and then uh James

2518
01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:43,679
Shimalik, our uh civil engineer, who

2519
01:52:43,679 --> 01:52:45,760
will provide some conceptual landscaping

2520
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:47,599
review. With that, I'd like to turn it

2521
01:52:47,599 --> 01:52:53,430
over to Jason.

2522
01:52:53,440 --> 01:52:54,560
» You're on, Jason.

2523
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:55,599
>> I'm good.

2524
01:52:55,599 --> 01:52:56,480
>> Yeah, go.

2525
01:52:56,480 --> 01:52:58,159
>> Um I'd like to do this in a couple

2526
01:52:58,159 --> 01:52:59,280
different parts. if it's okay with the

2527
01:52:59,280 --> 01:53:01,679
board. I'd like to go through my notes

2528
01:53:01,679 --> 01:53:03,360
that respond to the project as an

2529
01:53:03,360 --> 01:53:06,639
overall project and the um board's

2530
01:53:06,639 --> 01:53:08,639
response letter, then go through the

2531
01:53:08,639 --> 01:53:10,719
plans of what we're proposing, then go

2532
01:53:10,719 --> 01:53:11,760
through two different sets of

2533
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:14,320
photographs. One of the exterior

2534
01:53:14,320 --> 01:53:15,760
building and then one of the interior

2535
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:17,679
before the building was gutted, if

2536
01:53:17,679 --> 01:53:19,760
that's okay. Um, starting with the

2537
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:22,639
notes, um, as Kevin said, this overall

2538
01:53:22,639 --> 01:53:24,400
project approach is a rehabilitation and

2539
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:26,480
reinvestment to the existing building.

2540
01:53:26,480 --> 01:53:28,480
Uh, we want to retain existing structure

2541
01:53:28,480 --> 01:53:30,880
rather than replace it, correct unsafe

2542
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:33,599
and inappropriate previous alterations,

2543
01:53:33,599 --> 01:53:35,440
repair deteriorated structural and

2544
01:53:35,440 --> 01:53:37,760
building envelope conditions, improve

2545
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:39,520
the exterior appearance and residential

2546
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:41,760
character, convert the property into

2547
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:43,599
three safe code compliant residential

2548
01:53:43,599 --> 01:53:46,320
units, maintain existing overall scale,

2549
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:47,920
massing and relationship to Birch

2550
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:50,400
Avenue. Um staff has already indicated

2551
01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:53,760
that the project as a whole does not appear to pose a significant

2552
01:53:53,760 --> 01:53:55,840
impact to the property or surrounding

2553
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:58,560
Witherspoon Jackson historic district.

2554
01:53:58,560 --> 01:54:01,119
Um now the historical context important

2555
01:54:01,119 --> 01:54:02,480
distinction between the history of the

2556
01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:03,840
property and the building that currently

2557
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:07,199
exists. Uh the 1927 Sanbour map shows an

2558
01:54:07,199 --> 01:54:09,040
earlier woodframe duplex at the

2559
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:11,280
property. Uh earlier the structure was

2560
01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:14,080
demolished by approximately 1956.

2561
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:16,080
Uh current building was constructed by

2562
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:18,800
the mid 1960s. Existing building is

2563
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:20,400
therefore not the early 20th century

2564
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:23,199
duplex formally located on the property.

2565
01:54:23,199 --> 01:54:25,119
The current building represents a later

2566
01:54:25,119 --> 01:54:26,800
period in the evolution of Witherspoon

2567
01:54:26,800 --> 01:54:29,040
Jackson neighborhood. Witherspoon

2568
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:30,560
Jackson significant extends beyond the

2569
01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:32,159
individual architectural styles and

2570
01:54:32,159 --> 01:54:33,920
includes its social, cultural, and

2571
01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:37,119
residential history. Um we read through

2572
01:54:37,119 --> 01:54:38,960
Adam Welch's the Witherspoon Jackson

2573
01:54:38,960 --> 01:54:40,880
neighborhood how one community changed

2574
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:42,719
Princeton. Uh it reinforces the

2575
01:54:42,719 --> 01:54:44,239
importance of viewing the district as an

2576
01:54:44,239 --> 01:54:46,880
evolving community and neighborhood.

2577
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:48,960
Now the existing building construction,

2578
01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:50,560
the main portion of the existing

2579
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:52,239
building is wood frame construction with

2580
01:54:52,239 --> 01:54:54,960
a brick exterior. Uh the rear portion

2581
01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:56,880
which was an addition at a later date is

2582
01:54:56,880 --> 01:54:59,280
a m is a masonry construction with a

2583
01:54:59,280 --> 01:55:01,760
brick exterior. Um the staff's

2584
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:03,119
memorandum questioned whether the

2585
01:55:03,119 --> 01:55:04,400
building was masonry or framed

2586
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:06,400
construction and express willingness to

2587
01:55:06,400 --> 01:55:08,800
review existing conditions in the field.

2588
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:10,320
Uh we're going to coordinate on-site

2589
01:55:10,320 --> 01:55:12,080
review with staff if necessary. And I'll

2590
01:55:12,080 --> 01:55:15,040
get to that a little later on. Um the

2591
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:16,800
existing previous alterations. The

2592
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:18,320
property was previously used illegally

2593
01:55:18,320 --> 01:55:20,400
for multiple apartment units. Illegal

2594
01:55:20,400 --> 01:55:22,000
rear stair was constructed to provide

2595
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:24,400
access to the basement apartment areas.

2596
01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:25,920
Rear stair construction undermine

2597
01:55:25,920 --> 01:55:28,000
existing footing. The existing building

2598
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:30,239
has undergone numerous alterations over

2599
01:55:30,239 --> 01:55:32,960
time. The current project will remove or

2600
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:34,560
correct inappropriate and unsafe

2601
01:55:34,560 --> 01:55:36,400
conditions. The existing conditions

2602
01:55:36,400 --> 01:55:37,840
should not automatically assume to

2603
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:39,599
represent historical significant

2604
01:55:39,599 --> 01:55:42,709
conditions.

2605
01:55:42,719 --> 01:55:46,080
Uh in our proposal, we propose to uh

2606
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:48,560
treat the exterior brick with a a white

2607
01:55:48,560 --> 01:55:50,480
wash, but that's more of a generalized

2608
01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:52,960
term. Um you know, it's going to help us

2609
01:55:52,960 --> 01:55:55,440
repair deteriorated brick as required.

2610
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:56,960
We're going to repoint the masonry where

2611
01:55:56,960 --> 01:55:58,880
necessary. It's going to help clean

2612
01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:01,199
existing brick prior application of any

2613
01:56:01,199 --> 01:56:03,520
finish. Um we're not going to use a

2614
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:05,440
conventional exterior latex paint. I

2615
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:07,599
think that's an important note. Um

2616
01:56:07,599 --> 01:56:09,679
proposed finish to be a breathable and m

2617
01:56:09,679 --> 01:56:12,080
and masonry compatible. Uh the potential

2618
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:13,760
systems we're going to propose is either

2619
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:16,400
a lime wash, a mineral-based masonry

2620
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:19,599
coating. Um both are similar uh and

2621
01:56:19,599 --> 01:56:22,560
breathable masonry treatments. Um the

2622
01:56:22,560 --> 01:56:24,719
finish is intended to visually unify the

2623
01:56:24,719 --> 01:56:26,800
existing repairs, differing brick

2624
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:29,440
conditions and previous alterations.

2625
01:56:29,440 --> 01:56:32,400
Um we are willing to do a field mockup

2626
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:34,320
if necessary so it could be reviewed

2627
01:56:34,320 --> 01:56:36,080
before the whole building gets that

2628
01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:38,239
treatment. Um the staff's principal

2629
01:56:38,239 --> 01:56:39,920
concern about the treatment was the

2630
01:56:39,920 --> 01:56:41,679
previously unpainted brick and potential

2631
01:56:41,679 --> 01:56:45,280
long-term masonry impacts. Um also part

2632
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:46,560
of the project is some window

2633
01:56:46,560 --> 01:56:49,119
modifications. Uh selectively adjust

2634
01:56:49,119 --> 01:56:51,199
second floor window locations, improve

2635
01:56:51,199 --> 01:56:53,199
relationship between first and second

2636
01:56:53,199 --> 01:56:55,119
floor openings. Um that's going to help

2637
01:56:55,119 --> 01:56:56,639
us better establish a vertical

2638
01:56:56,639 --> 01:56:58,639
alignment, a rhythm, a proportion, and

2639
01:56:58,639 --> 01:57:00,960
an architectural organization. um

2640
01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:02,719
maintain overall building height,

2641
01:57:02,719 --> 01:57:05,599
building massing, uh roof configuration

2642
01:57:05,599 --> 01:57:08,320
and residential scale and character. Uh

2643
01:57:08,320 --> 01:57:10,880
the changes are intended as as the

2644
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:13,679
changes are in intended as limit facade

2645
01:57:13,679 --> 01:57:15,599
improvements rather than a wholesale

2646
01:57:15,599 --> 01:57:17,920
redesign. Um the Princeton Witherspoon

2647
01:57:17,920 --> 01:57:19,440
Jack Jackson district documentation

2648
01:57:19,440 --> 01:57:21,760
recognizes the vernacular and altered

2649
01:57:21,760 --> 01:57:23,599
nature of the much of the neighborhood's

2650
01:57:23,599 --> 01:57:25,199
building stock and supports reasonable

2651
01:57:25,199 --> 01:57:27,920
flexibility in the rehabilitation.

2652
01:57:27,920 --> 01:57:30,080
Uh we're also proposing some front

2653
01:57:30,080 --> 01:57:32,000
entrance upgrades. Um we want to

2654
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:33,599
reconstruct and improve the existing

2655
01:57:33,599 --> 01:57:36,080
front stoop, provide a modest roof over

2656
01:57:36,080 --> 01:57:37,760
the primary entrance for protection from

2657
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:40,239
the weather. Uh that roof will contain a

2658
01:57:40,239 --> 01:57:42,480
standing seam metal roof. Uh it's going

2659
01:57:42,480 --> 01:57:44,000
to improve the weather protection at the

2660
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:45,599
entrance, provide clear entrance

2661
01:57:45,599 --> 01:57:47,360
hierarchy. Uh it's going to add some

2662
01:57:47,360 --> 01:57:49,440
architectural interest and curb appeal.

2663
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:51,360
Uh the pent roof remains subordinate to

2664
01:57:51,360 --> 01:57:53,520
the principal building and proposed as

2665
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:54,719
compatible new element rather than

2666
01:57:54,719 --> 01:57:56,560
attempted to recreate an undocumented

2667
01:57:56,560 --> 01:57:58,639
historic historical feature being a

2668
01:57:58,639 --> 01:58:01,910
front porch.

2669
01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:05,760
Um it was um suggested in the letter of

2670
01:58:05,760 --> 01:58:07,840
possibly putting back a front porch that

2671
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:10,560
may have been there. Um a staff notes

2672
01:58:10,560 --> 01:58:12,000
existing brick condition suggests that a

2673
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:14,480
full width porch may have existed. Uh we

2674
01:58:14,480 --> 01:58:16,320
acknowledge the importance of the front

2675
01:58:16,320 --> 01:58:18,159
porches with proportions to the Wizman

2676
01:58:18,159 --> 01:58:19,920
Jackson neighborhood. No historic

2677
01:58:19,920 --> 01:58:21,520
photograph or drawing has currently been

2678
01:58:21,520 --> 01:58:23,840
identified showing the porch. Um the

2679
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:25,440
existing information does not establish

2680
01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:28,880
the following exact width, depth, roof

2681
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:31,280
form or pitch, roof material, column

2682
01:58:31,280 --> 01:58:33,280
number or spacing, column design,

2683
01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:34,719
railing, stair configuration, trim or

2684
01:58:34,719 --> 01:58:36,400
decorative details, and whether the

2685
01:58:36,400 --> 01:58:39,360
porch was open or enclosed. Uh there's

2686
01:58:39,360 --> 01:58:41,840
currently brick ghosting may establish

2687
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:43,679
that the architectural element existed

2688
01:58:43,679 --> 01:58:46,159
but does not provide suff sufficient

2689
01:58:46,159 --> 01:58:47,520
information to accurately reconstruct

2690
01:58:47,520 --> 01:58:49,520
this complete configuration.

2691
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:51,760
Um the secretary of the interior

2692
01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:53,520
standards caution against conjectural

2693
01:58:53,520 --> 01:58:55,679
reconstruction and creation of a false

2694
01:58:55,679 --> 01:58:57,920
sense of historical development. Any

2695
01:58:57,920 --> 01:58:59,520
reconstruction of a missing feature

2696
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:01,040
should be supported by adequate physical

2697
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:03,760
or documentary evidence. um continue

2698
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:05,280
with proposed pent roof unless

2699
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:06,960
sufficient documentation supporting an

2700
01:59:06,960 --> 01:59:08,800
accurate porch reconstructed is

2701
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:11,599
identified. That's our current approach.

2702
01:59:11,599 --> 01:59:14,480
Um there's also a practical and economic

2703
01:59:14,480 --> 01:59:16,400
impact of a full porch if one were to go

2704
01:59:16,400 --> 01:59:18,320
back. Uh there's three existing gas

2705
01:59:18,320 --> 01:59:20,400
meters located on the front face of the

2706
01:59:20,400 --> 01:59:22,719
building. Um the porch would have to

2707
01:59:22,719 --> 01:59:25,840
have those relocated to a a new

2708
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:28,000
location. Um the associate work may

2709
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:30,000
include utility company coordination,

2710
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:31,920
new gas service piping, new building

2711
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:34,239
penetrations, removal of gas piping,

2712
01:59:34,239 --> 01:59:36,800
exterior repairs and site work. It uh

2713
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:38,159
it's going to add significant

2714
01:59:38,159 --> 01:59:40,320
construction cost to the project. The e

2715
01:59:40,320 --> 01:59:42,159
the economic impact should be considered

2716
01:59:42,159 --> 01:59:44,239
secondary to the preservation concern

2717
01:59:44,239 --> 01:59:46,880
regarding undocumented reconstruction.

2718
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:48,880
Um then we have economic sustainability

2719
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:51,040
and preservation. Um, the long-term

2720
01:59:51,040 --> 01:59:52,480
preservation requires buildings to

2721
01:59:52,480 --> 01:59:55,520
remain occupied, useful, maintained, and

2722
01:59:55,520 --> 02:00:00,639
economically viable. The three-unit residential use provides

2723
02:00:00,639 --> 02:00:03,360
a viable long-term use for the property.

2724
02:00:03,360 --> 02:00:04,800
provides funding and

2725
02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:06,480
incentive to correct existing structural

2726
02:00:06,480 --> 02:00:09,199
and and envelope deficiencies.

2727
02:00:09,199 --> 02:00:10,880
Rehabilitation preserves the existing

2728
02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:12,960
building rather than replacing it.

2729
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:14,639
Improvements contribute to overall

2730
02:00:14,639 --> 02:00:15,920
condition and appearance of the

2731
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:18,159
streetscape. Preservation goals should

2732
02:00:18,159 --> 02:00:19,599
be balanced with reasonable adaptive

2733
02:00:19,599 --> 02:00:22,000
rehabilitation and long-term economic

2734
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:24,000
sustainability.

2735
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:25,119
>> Let's go to the picture.

2736
02:00:25,119 --> 02:00:26,400
>> Yep. If I can go through the pictures

2737
02:00:26,400 --> 02:00:27,760
real quick.

2738
02:00:27,760 --> 02:00:30,480
>> Um I'll start with the exterior.

2739
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:32,080
There should be that should be the one

2740
02:00:32,080 --> 02:00:41,750
that just says photos, not exterior.

2741
02:00:41,760 --> 02:00:44,639
Uh example packet

2742
02:00:44,639 --> 02:00:47,280
that one. Yep.

2743
02:00:47,280 --> 02:00:51,589
That's it.

2744
02:00:51,599 --> 02:00:54,480
So, the the first picture, photo one,

2745
02:00:54,480 --> 02:00:56,719
this is a front elevation of the entry.

2746
02:00:56,719 --> 02:00:58,880
Um, you can see between the windows

2747
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:01,280
there appears to be some patching or

2748
02:01:01,280 --> 02:01:04,000
replacement of brick at one time. It

2749
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:06,480
also shows the stoop to the left and the

2750
02:01:06,480 --> 02:01:09,119
three gas meters currently there. Um,

2751
02:01:09,119 --> 02:01:12,000
photo two shows pretty much uh the upper

2752
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:14,639
facade and the same uh brick patching in

2753
02:01:14,639 --> 02:01:16,320
the middle. It also shows that the

2754
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:17,679
middle windows currently are not

2755
02:01:17,679 --> 02:01:19,920
aligned. The second floor middle windows

2756
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:22,080
kick slightly to the right from the

2757
02:01:22,080 --> 02:01:24,080
lower window. Um the two to the right

2758
02:01:24,080 --> 02:01:25,760
are aligned over top of each other. The

2759
02:01:25,760 --> 02:01:26,960
middle alignment is something that we're

2760
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:30,950
proposing to fix.

2761
02:01:30,960 --> 02:01:32,880
Um photo three is just another example

2762
02:01:32,880 --> 02:01:34,560
of the left side of the patching in the

2763
02:01:34,560 --> 02:01:36,320
middle between the windows and the two

2764
02:01:36,320 --> 02:01:41,589
window alignments.

2765
02:01:41,599 --> 02:01:43,840
Photo five shows the existing condition

2766
02:01:43,840 --> 02:01:46,800
of the front stoop. Um the left side is

2767
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:50,320
a is a mixture of brick and masonry.

2768
02:01:50,320 --> 02:01:54,960
Um photo six shows a rear entry that was

2769
02:01:54,960 --> 02:01:58,880
created at some time without permit. Um

2770
02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:01,599
it started to undermine the footing

2771
02:02:01,599 --> 02:02:03,280
which can be seen in a couple pictures

2772
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:05,679
coming up. Uh photos seven and eight

2773
02:02:05,679 --> 02:02:08,560
just further show that rear entry. Uh,

2774
02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:10,000
photo eight, if you look towards the

2775
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:12,239
left, that's the footing that's sticking

2776
02:02:12,239 --> 02:02:18,310
out, hovering kind of in the air.

2777
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:20,960
Um, photo nine

2778
02:02:20,960 --> 02:02:23,599
shows where the mortar uh is kind of

2779
02:02:23,599 --> 02:02:25,920
falling out from previous repairs. U,

2780
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:27,679
one of our proposed objectives is to

2781
02:02:27,679 --> 02:02:30,880
repoint the brick and fix it up.

2782
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:34,159
Photo 10 is is a side picture showing

2783
02:02:34,159 --> 02:02:36,639
the similar U mortar where it's coming

2784
02:02:36,639 --> 02:02:38,560
out from a previous repair. It also

2785
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:42,239
shows the mix of both brick and block

2786
02:02:42,239 --> 02:02:47,910
construction.

2787
02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:50,239
And then photo 11 and 12 are from the

2788
02:02:50,239 --> 02:02:52,560
opposite side of the front porch where

2789
02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:55,360
the um exterior parch has completely

2790
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:58,239
come off. And at one time there was

2791
02:02:58,239 --> 02:02:59,760
numerous materials stuck in there to

2792
02:02:59,760 --> 02:03:04,470
infill it.

2793
02:03:04,480 --> 02:03:06,880
Uh the next page shows some context

2794
02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:09,520
along Birch Avenue. Uh the first picture

2795
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:11,840
is directly across the street. The

2796
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:14,000
structure to the right is a white

2797
02:03:14,000 --> 02:03:16,880
horizontal sided house. The structure to

2798
02:03:16,880 --> 02:03:19,280
the left is a masonry uh with white

2799
02:03:19,280 --> 02:03:23,119
parch structure. Um Birch Avenue 2

2800
02:03:23,119 --> 02:03:25,199
picture is further down the street. I

2801
02:03:25,199 --> 02:03:27,599
believe that's a a a small church that

2802
02:03:27,599 --> 02:03:31,360
has a masonry white exterior.

2803
02:03:31,360 --> 02:03:33,199
And then Birch Avenue 3 picture is just

2804
02:03:33,199 --> 02:03:35,520
another picture showing that there's um

2805
02:03:35,520 --> 02:03:38,239
quite a bit of white exterior structures

2806
02:03:38,239 --> 02:03:42,229
along the street.

2807
02:03:42,239 --> 02:03:44,000
These last two photos I think are the

2808
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:48,080
most important. Um this is an example of

2809
02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:49,920
the exterior treatment that we would

2810
02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:52,560
like to do to the current brick. uh it's

2811
02:03:52,560 --> 02:03:53,760
going to be more of a lime wash or

2812
02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:56,880
mineral wash. Um it does not completely

2813
02:03:56,880 --> 02:03:59,440
get rid of the look of the red brick.

2814
02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:00,960
is still allowed to peek

2815
02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:02,960
through in certain areas. Uh it is

2816
02:04:02,960 --> 02:04:04,239
consistent with other structures

2817
02:04:04,239 --> 02:04:06,239
throughout Princeton. Um and it's

2818
02:04:06,239 --> 02:04:08,159
mindful to the existing red brick

2819
02:04:08,159 --> 02:04:10,080
without completely covering up like a

2820
02:04:10,080 --> 02:04:12,960
latex paint would. Um we are more than

2821
02:04:12,960 --> 02:04:15,679
willing to do a mockup on site in a

2822
02:04:15,679 --> 02:04:17,280
small area so the board can take a look

2823
02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:19,199
and get approval if necessary.

2824
02:04:19,199 --> 02:04:21,599
>> Cool.

2825
02:04:21,599 --> 02:04:24,000
Um, the next set of photos is going to

2826
02:04:24,000 --> 02:04:33,430
be interior photos.

2827
02:04:33,440 --> 02:04:35,280
I'll go through these pretty quick.

2828
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:36,800
These just show the conditions of what

2829
02:04:36,800 --> 02:04:38,800
was there before our clients purchased

2830
02:04:38,800 --> 02:04:41,520
the building. Um, to Kevin's point,

2831
02:04:41,520 --> 02:04:43,360
there was what, 30 units?

2832
02:04:43,360 --> 02:04:45,199
>> Yeah, there was roughly 30 apartment

2833
02:04:45,199 --> 02:04:46,800
units in this 2 and a half story

2834
02:04:46,800 --> 02:04:50,480
structure. Um, they had people in units

2835
02:04:50,480 --> 02:04:52,159
in the basement with an unfinished

2836
02:04:52,159 --> 02:04:54,960
basement and a dirt floor. Um, photos

2837
02:04:54,960 --> 02:04:57,599
one and two show a typical kitchen and

2838
02:04:57,599 --> 02:05:00,480
sleeping area that was there before. Um,

2839
02:05:00,480 --> 02:05:03,440
photos three is another area of the

2840
02:05:03,440 --> 02:05:07,040
kitchen and living. Um, photo four is is

2841
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:12,070
a shower. Um,

2842
02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:13,679
photo five is another shot of a

2843
02:05:13,679 --> 02:05:16,080
bathroom. And then photo six, believe it

2844
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:19,119
or not, that was how people were that

2845
02:05:19,119 --> 02:05:20,480
photo six, there was units down there

2846
02:05:20,480 --> 02:05:22,159
with that basement as it as it is in

2847
02:05:22,159 --> 02:05:24,480
that picture.

2848
02:05:24,480 --> 02:05:25,760
And they were getting to that basement

2849
02:05:25,760 --> 02:05:28,400
unit from that stair in the back.

2850
02:05:28,400 --> 02:05:30,239
Um, photos seven and eight just show

2851
02:05:30,239 --> 02:05:32,960
typical living areas and sleeping areas

2852
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:36,719
prior to the um, demolition. And then

2853
02:05:36,719 --> 02:05:43,270
nine and 10 are similar pictures.

2854
02:05:43,280 --> 02:05:44,880
Now, I'd like to walk through the plans

2855
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:48,709
real quick.

2856
02:05:48,719 --> 02:05:53,109
» Uh, top one. Y.

2857
02:05:53,119 --> 02:05:54,800
» So, the first page is a colored

2858
02:05:54,800 --> 02:05:57,199
>> question. Did Did you note that there

2859
02:05:57,199 --> 02:06:00,880
were 30 units in this house?

2860
02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:02,080
>> Did we know

2861
02:06:02,080 --> 02:06:05,760
>> 30 30 individuals of sleeping areas?

2862
02:06:05,760 --> 02:06:08,159
>> Our client, you know, purchased the

2863
02:06:08,159 --> 02:06:10,239
property. As I said, they're they live

2864
02:06:10,239 --> 02:06:12,000
over they they have visited Princeton.

2865
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:13,520
They hope to actually retire to

2866
02:06:13,520 --> 02:06:15,760
Princeton, not in this house, but uh and

2867
02:06:15,760 --> 02:06:20,400
their son goes to Ruters. Uh but uh they

2868
02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:23,199
were unaware of the situation when they

2869
02:06:23,199 --> 02:06:25,040
purchased it. It obviously wasn't listed

2870
02:06:25,040 --> 02:06:27,920
that way, but when they took title, they

2871
02:06:27,920 --> 02:06:30,079
saw and determined the situation and

2872
02:06:30,079 --> 02:06:33,440
corrected it.

2873
02:06:33,440 --> 02:06:33,840
>> Thank you.

2874
02:06:33,840 --> 02:06:39,119
>> And it's for cl clarity, it's empty now.

2875
02:06:39,119 --> 02:06:40,560
Thank you.

2876
02:06:40,560 --> 02:06:42,000
>> So, just to walk through the drawings

2877
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:44,159
real quick, the first page is color

2878
02:06:44,159 --> 02:06:47,040
codes the units. Um, there's three units

2879
02:06:47,040 --> 02:06:50,159
proposed. On the left image is the first

2880
02:06:50,159 --> 02:06:54,639
floor plan. The blue the blue unit is on

2881
02:06:54,639 --> 02:06:56,159
the second and third floor in the second

2882
02:06:56,159 --> 02:06:58,800
floor and attic. Um, so the first at the

2883
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:00,480
you come into a first entry vestibule

2884
02:07:00,480 --> 02:07:01,920
takes you up to the second floor and

2885
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:04,320
attic space. The yellow space is a unit

2886
02:07:04,320 --> 02:07:06,320
in the front and the pink space is a

2887
02:07:06,320 --> 02:07:11,270
unit in the back.

2888
02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:14,960
» Question before you move on, please. Um,

2889
02:07:14,960 --> 02:07:19,520
>> which color depicts existing conditions?

2890
02:07:19,520 --> 02:07:19,920
>> Section.

2891
02:07:19,920 --> 02:07:23,840
>> Which color shows us what is existing

2892
02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:24,400
now?

2893
02:07:24,400 --> 02:07:25,840
>> It's going to be the next page.

2894
02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:26,480
>> I see.

2895
02:07:26,480 --> 02:07:28,079
>> Yeah. The next page.

2896
02:07:28,079 --> 02:07:31,440
>> The next page. A1- Z00. The image on the

2897
02:07:31,440 --> 02:07:33,520
left is a demolition plan which shows it

2898
02:07:33,520 --> 02:07:35,679
how it sits now. The red is what's going

2899
02:07:35,679 --> 02:07:38,079
to be removed. Um if you notice at the

2900
02:07:38,079 --> 02:07:39,599
top of that demolition plan, that back

2901
02:07:39,599 --> 02:07:41,840
area is being completely removed because

2902
02:07:41,840 --> 02:07:43,119
that is the area where the foundation

2903
02:07:43,119 --> 02:07:44,719
wall and footing were undermined from

2904
02:07:44,719 --> 02:07:47,360
that rear stair. Um the image to the

2905
02:07:47,360 --> 02:07:49,760
right is a proposed floor plan for that

2906
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:51,599
first floor. It's going to have the one

2907
02:07:51,599 --> 02:07:53,760
unit in the front with one bedroom

2908
02:07:53,760 --> 02:07:55,760
kitchenet and living space. The unit in

2909
02:07:55,760 --> 02:07:57,119
the in the back will also be a

2910
02:07:57,119 --> 02:07:58,800
onebedroom unit with kitchen living

2911
02:07:58,800 --> 02:08:00,800
space. And then that vest view up front

2912
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:02,880
goes up to the second floor which is on

2913
02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:06,800
the next page sheet A1.10.

2914
02:08:06,800 --> 02:08:08,239
Again the image on the left is a

2915
02:08:08,239 --> 02:08:10,320
demolition plan which shows existing

2916
02:08:10,320 --> 02:08:12,320
conditions. The red being removed. The

2917
02:08:12,320 --> 02:08:14,400
image on the right is the plan for the

2918
02:08:14,400 --> 02:08:16,639
proposed apartment. Um this space is

2919
02:08:16,639 --> 02:08:18,159
this unit is going to be a two-bedroom

2920
02:08:18,159 --> 02:08:20,239
unit. This is the second floor which

2921
02:08:20,239 --> 02:08:22,079
contains a living space, a bedroom and a

2922
02:08:22,079 --> 02:08:27,280
kitchenet. Um sheet A-1.20 20 shows the

2923
02:08:27,280 --> 02:08:29,040
attic level that's going to contain an

2924
02:08:29,040 --> 02:08:30,960
additional bathroom and bedroom for that

2925
02:08:30,960 --> 02:08:34,159
unit and the image to the left is the uh

2926
02:08:34,159 --> 02:08:40,229
existing adding plan with the red which is what is being removed.

2927
02:08:40,239 --> 02:08:44,639
Uh moving on to the next sheet a-2.0

2928
02:08:44,639 --> 02:08:46,880
these are the proposed elevations. Um

2929
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:48,320
the elevation in the top left corner

2930
02:08:48,320 --> 02:08:51,040
front elevation proposed um shows the

2931
02:08:51,040 --> 02:08:53,280
existing porch with new pent roof above.

2932
02:08:53,280 --> 02:08:55,360
Uh we lined up the middle two windows

2933
02:08:55,360 --> 02:08:57,679
for more of a symmetrical architectural

2934
02:08:57,679 --> 02:08:59,679
look. Uh the two windows to the right

2935
02:08:59,679 --> 02:09:01,760
were already there and lined up. We are

2936
02:09:01,760 --> 02:09:03,360
slightly increasing the size of the

2937
02:09:03,360 --> 02:09:04,800
windows to meet current egress

2938
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:09,040
standards. Um the image to the right is

2939
02:09:09,040 --> 02:09:11,520
the right elevation uh from the right

2940
02:09:11,520 --> 02:09:14,719
side. Um same thing we're increasing the

2941
02:09:14,719 --> 02:09:17,199
windows slightly to meet uh current

2942
02:09:17,199 --> 02:09:19,280
egress standards. The image on the

2943
02:09:19,280 --> 02:09:22,800
bottom left is a rendering of what the

2944
02:09:22,800 --> 02:09:25,840
color scheme will look like. Um there is

2945
02:09:25,840 --> 02:09:29,360
no proposed increase in square footage.

2946
02:09:29,360 --> 02:09:32,560
There is no proposed uh additions that

2947
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:33,920
will be exceeding the existing

2948
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:36,960
footprint. Um the image, the rendering

2949
02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:40,000
image shows more of a pure white facade.

2950
02:09:40,000 --> 02:09:42,320
You know, it's hard to get technology to

2951
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:44,239
do what you want sometimes, but the

2952
02:09:44,239 --> 02:09:46,239
pictures in that packet, the back is

2953
02:09:46,239 --> 02:09:47,520
more what it's going to look like with

2954
02:09:47,520 --> 02:09:51,840
the line wash or mineral wash.

2955
02:09:51,840 --> 02:09:56,560
Um, the next sheet, A-210,

2956
02:09:56,560 --> 02:09:59,840
shows the rear elevation. That is the

2957
02:09:59,840 --> 02:10:01,679
area that we are rebuilding to the

2958
02:10:01,679 --> 02:10:04,480
existing footprint just to um because

2959
02:10:04,480 --> 02:10:05,599
we're going to have to take it down to

2960
02:10:05,599 --> 02:10:07,920
redo the foundation footing. So that

2961
02:10:07,920 --> 02:10:10,159
back wall is is new, but it's within the

2962
02:10:10,159 --> 02:10:12,800
existing footprint. Uh the next shot on

2963
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:14,880
the right, the left side elevation, um

2964
02:10:14,880 --> 02:10:19,030
just shows it from the left.

2965
02:10:19,040 --> 02:10:22,000
Um and that's it.

2966
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:24,320
>> Hi Sharon,

2967
02:10:24,320 --> 02:10:28,880
I'm on Zoom. Um can I call you back?

2968
02:10:28,880 --> 02:10:30,159
Okay.

2969
02:10:30,159 --> 02:10:40,390
>> Having trouble hearing

2970
02:10:40,400 --> 02:10:43,360
Sarah, do you have um

2971
02:10:43,360 --> 02:10:46,480
some comments to share?

2972
02:10:46,480 --> 02:10:48,880
>> Yes, I think um the applicant kind of

2973
02:10:48,880 --> 02:10:54,390
covered a lot of it. Um

2974
02:10:54,400 --> 02:10:56,239
generally there's there's no changes

2975
02:10:56,239 --> 02:10:58,400
currently proposed to the building's

2976
02:10:58,400 --> 02:11:01,679
footprint. Uh there's a lot of what

2977
02:11:01,679 --> 02:11:03,280
mainly is happening is the rebuilding of

2978
02:11:03,280 --> 02:11:05,985
the the rear wall um repairs,

2979
02:11:05,985 --> 02:11:07,280
[clears throat] realignment of the

2980
02:11:07,280 --> 02:11:11,199
windows, uh and the remainder for lack

2981
02:11:11,199 --> 02:11:14,800
of a better term is kind of cosmetic. Uh

2982
02:11:14,800 --> 02:11:18,000
painting of the brick, repairing of the

2983
02:11:18,000 --> 02:11:20,159
facade and the addition of that pent

2984
02:11:20,159 --> 02:11:23,920
roof over the front door. Um as I said,

2985
02:11:23,920 --> 02:11:25,440
like willing to work with the applicant

2986
02:11:25,440 --> 02:11:28,079
in any on-site design meetings. Um

2987
02:11:28,079 --> 02:11:29,840
because based on what I could find,

2988
02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:31,360
which

2989
02:11:31,360 --> 02:11:33,599
the property tax records also said said

2990
02:11:33,599 --> 02:11:35,280
this was a brick building, also said it

2991
02:11:35,280 --> 02:11:37,360
was built in 1949, which I know is

2992
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:39,760
incorrect. Um and that was a three-unit

2993
02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:42,320
building, so not the most reliable, but

2994
02:11:42,320 --> 02:11:45,199
the infill above the windows where what

2995
02:11:45,199 --> 02:11:48,079
was presumably a porch used to be made

2996
02:11:48,079 --> 02:11:50,639
it look more like brick than brick

2997
02:11:50,639 --> 02:11:55,990
veneer, but I could be wrong. Um

2998
02:11:56,000 --> 02:11:58,880
and yes, so that that being my main

2999
02:11:58,880 --> 02:12:02,320
concern is ensuring we're treating the

3000
02:12:02,320 --> 02:12:04,960
brick facade correctly. We're not

3001
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:06,880
painting it with the wrong material and

3002
02:12:06,880 --> 02:12:09,199
that the whatever changes we're making

3003
02:12:09,199 --> 02:12:10,880
to the facade with a pent roof, all of

3004
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:14,000
that is kind of taken appropriately. But

3005
02:12:14,000 --> 02:12:17,280
by and large, I the the project seems to

3006
02:12:17,280 --> 02:12:18,880
not have a significant impact on the

3007
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:21,199
district.

3008
02:12:21,199 --> 02:12:23,040
By and large, the project as currently

3009
02:12:23,040 --> 02:12:25,599
proposed doesn't doesn't appear to have

3010
02:12:25,599 --> 02:12:29,840
a large impact on the district.

3011
02:12:29,840 --> 02:12:32,159
I mean, kind of what we're looking for

3012
02:12:32,159 --> 02:12:35,360
your feedback on is we [snorts] would

3013
02:12:35,360 --> 02:12:38,320
really like to do the lime wash

3014
02:12:38,320 --> 02:12:39,840
and

3015
02:12:39,840 --> 02:12:42,000
realign the windows. And we'd like to

3016
02:12:42,000 --> 02:12:45,119
get your feedback on that so that now

3017
02:12:45,119 --> 02:12:47,199
and because after this we'd obviously

3018
02:12:47,199 --> 02:12:49,760
apply to the zoning board and then it'll

3019
02:12:49,760 --> 02:12:51,360
be given you know referred to you

3020
02:12:51,360 --> 02:12:54,400
formally for your formal recommendation.

3021
02:12:54,400 --> 02:12:55,760
So we're [snorts] really here tonight

3022
02:12:55,760 --> 02:12:59,280
looking for guidance on that.

3023
02:12:59,280 --> 02:13:01,599
>> I'm sorry.

3024
02:13:01,599 --> 02:13:04,239
>> Oh okay. We'll give you the conceptual

3025
02:13:04,239 --> 02:13:05,920
landscaping

3026
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:09,440
uh presentation as well.

3027
02:13:09,440 --> 02:13:12,079
>> Sure. Uh good evening everyone. Jim

3028
02:13:12,079 --> 02:13:15,199
Kamalac, Kencho resources uh project

3029
02:13:15,199 --> 02:13:19,280
engineer and we did submit a site plan

3030
02:13:19,280 --> 02:13:22,079
on a survey just showing as you can see

3031
02:13:22,079 --> 02:13:23,679
here the limits of the existing

3032
02:13:23,679 --> 02:13:26,159
structure which is not changing and the

3033
02:13:26,159 --> 02:13:29,840
main takeaway here um is the fact that

3034
02:13:29,840 --> 02:13:32,639
in the prior photos you saw that there's

3035
02:13:32,639 --> 02:13:35,119
absolutely no landscaping bare

3036
02:13:35,119 --> 02:13:38,320
foundation um trees that once existed

3037
02:13:38,320 --> 02:13:39,920
including street trees that have been

3038
02:13:39,920 --> 02:13:42,880
removed. Okay. And we provided uh what

3039
02:13:42,880 --> 02:13:46,159
we feel is an authentic and will be an

3040
02:13:46,159 --> 02:13:48,400
ultimately a very nice upgrade to that

3041
02:13:48,400 --> 02:13:52,960
frontage landscaping um that'll satisfy

3042
02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:55,119
uh several particular things. One, as

3043
02:13:55,119 --> 02:13:57,440
you can see, we're adding a street tree.

3044
02:13:57,440 --> 02:13:59,679
Um one that formerly existed, I believe

3045
02:13:59,679 --> 02:14:03,440
it was a uh an evergreen previously, but

3046
02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:04,800
we're going to add a street tree there

3047
02:14:04,800 --> 02:14:07,760
to replace that. Two other small um

3048
02:14:07,760 --> 02:14:10,239
trees in the front yard. We'll maintain

3049
02:14:10,239 --> 02:14:12,719
an existing square uh 600 square foot

3050
02:14:12,719 --> 02:14:16,079
lawn area that can be used for open open

3051
02:14:16,079 --> 02:14:19,199
space and a play area for example. We're

3052
02:14:19,199 --> 02:14:22,719
also providing planting beds and then um

3053
02:14:22,719 --> 02:14:24,719
with all of this native landscaping

3054
02:14:24,719 --> 02:14:26,719
which we have incorporated with

3055
02:14:26,719 --> 02:14:29,280
pollinators. Um it also includes

3056
02:14:29,280 --> 02:14:30,719
foundation plantings that will

3057
02:14:30,719 --> 02:14:33,599
adequately screen the foundation and

3058
02:14:33,599 --> 02:14:36,719
we're sharpening up uh the walkway from

3059
02:14:36,719 --> 02:14:39,040
the driveway into that front entry. So

3060
02:14:39,040 --> 02:14:41,360
there'll be a clear path uh from the

3061
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:43,280
walkway to that front entry. So we feel

3062
02:14:43,280 --> 02:14:44,880
as though there'll be an aesthetic

3063
02:14:44,880 --> 02:14:47,920
elevation here um from a landscaping

3064
02:14:47,920 --> 02:14:50,639
standpoint uh and from a native material

3065
02:14:50,639 --> 02:14:53,040
standpoint that'll complement the facade

3066
02:14:53,040 --> 02:14:57,109
treatments that were discussed.

3067
02:14:57,119 --> 02:14:59,840
» That concludes our presentation.

3068
02:14:59,840 --> 02:15:02,320
>> Thank you.

3069
02:15:02,320 --> 02:15:05,119
>> Comments from commission members.

3070
02:15:05,119 --> 02:15:07,679
>> Um I have a question.

3071
02:15:07,679 --> 02:15:09,520
So, there's an

3072
02:15:09,520 --> 02:15:12,320
enormous amount of utilities on the

3073
02:15:12,320 --> 02:15:14,800
front of this building. There's like the

3074
02:15:14,800 --> 02:15:17,360
gas meters, three gas meters. There's

3075
02:15:17,360 --> 02:15:19,599
like electrical panels. There's huge

3076
02:15:19,599 --> 02:15:22,320
cables running up and down the sides.

3077
02:15:22,320 --> 02:15:25,599
Um, there's a whole lot going on there.

3078
02:15:25,599 --> 02:15:28,719
Um, is that going to be removed or

3079
02:15:28,719 --> 02:15:31,119
moved?

3080
02:15:31,119 --> 02:15:33,119
>> Well, I I believe the the satellite

3081
02:15:33,119 --> 02:15:35,119
dishes will be removed. Yeah,

3082
02:15:35,119 --> 02:15:37,599
>> the gas the gas meters are most likely

3083
02:15:37,599 --> 02:15:39,119
going to stay in the location they're

3084
02:15:39,119 --> 02:15:41,119
in. Uh we're going to lean on the

3085
02:15:41,119 --> 02:15:42,800
landscaping to kind of screen those from

3086
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:43,520
the street.

3087
02:15:43,520 --> 02:15:44,000
>> Okay.

3088
02:15:44,000 --> 02:15:46,880
>> And make it more uh sightful.

3089
02:15:46,880 --> 02:15:48,320
Um same thing with the electrical

3090
02:15:48,320 --> 02:15:51,040
panels. I mean, that's I don't think we

3091
02:15:51,040 --> 02:15:52,239
planned on moving any of those

3092
02:15:52,239 --> 02:15:56,229
utilities.

3093
02:15:56,239 --> 02:16:01,189
» Where's the electrical panel?

3094
02:16:01,199 --> 02:16:04,560
» Jason asking for the electric I believe

3095
02:16:04,560 --> 02:16:05,280
there

3096
02:16:05,280 --> 02:16:06,239
>> photo is that

3097
02:16:06,239 --> 02:16:10,709
>> I believe it's on the one side

3098
02:16:10,719 --> 02:16:15,350
here.

3099
02:16:15,360 --> 02:16:18,239
» I'm not showing it on my photos.

3100
02:16:18,239 --> 02:16:21,040
Freda, your questions, your thoughts?

3101
02:16:21,040 --> 02:16:24,880
>> Um, well, just thoughts.

3102
02:16:24,880 --> 02:16:26,639
That's weird.

3103
02:16:26,639 --> 02:16:31,119
Just thoughts on the lime washing. Um, I

3104
02:16:31,119 --> 02:16:32,960
mean, lime washing is a historic

3105
02:16:32,960 --> 02:16:35,280
treatment, so I I don't see any reason

3106
02:16:35,280 --> 02:16:38,080
for not using it. In fact, I think it'll

3107
02:16:38,080 --> 02:16:43,120
improve that red brick. Um,

3108
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:46,240
and I even though the windows are, you

3109
02:16:46,240 --> 02:16:48,160
know, very very visible, I think

3110
02:16:48,160 --> 02:16:53,910
aligning them makes sense.

3111
02:16:53,920 --> 02:16:57,120
That's pretty much my opinion on that.

3112
02:16:57,120 --> 02:16:59,359
>> And the lime wash is going to

3113
02:16:59,359 --> 02:17:01,200
It's historical treatment. It's also

3114
02:17:01,200 --> 02:17:02,319
going to help us kind of hide some

3115
02:17:02,319 --> 02:17:03,760
imperfections.

3116
02:17:03,760 --> 02:17:04,160
>> Yeah.

3117
02:17:04,160 --> 02:17:05,760
>> And I think it's important that we, you

3118
02:17:05,760 --> 02:17:07,679
know, do move forward a mockup to make

3119
02:17:07,679 --> 02:17:08,639
sure that it's

3120
02:17:08,639 --> 02:17:08,960
>> Yeah.

3121
02:17:08,960 --> 02:17:10,000
>> You know, at some point when we get to

3122
02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:11,439
that stage, we'd like to do a mockup to

3123
02:17:11,439 --> 02:17:12,080
get approval.

3124
02:17:12,080 --> 02:17:14,960
>> Yeah. Because you never know how much

3125
02:17:14,960 --> 02:17:15,359
>> Yep.

3126
02:17:15,359 --> 02:17:19,840
>> it'll absorb. So, yeah, makes sense.

3127
02:17:19,840 --> 02:17:22,080
>> Thank you, Shirley.

3128
02:17:22,080 --> 02:17:23,840
>> Yes. Um, can you hear me?

3129
02:17:23,840 --> 02:17:25,920
>> Yes. Um, I I may have missed the

3130
02:17:25,920 --> 02:17:27,519
explanation as to why they didn't keep

3131
02:17:27,519 --> 02:17:30,399
it a brick. Um, because this house

3132
02:17:30,399 --> 02:17:32,479
really doesn't doesn't look like the

3133
02:17:32,479 --> 02:17:34,960
houses in this community. And when you

3134
02:17:34,960 --> 02:17:36,639
said something about a porch, this is

3135
02:17:36,639 --> 02:17:39,760
not a porch. Um, our houses had porches

3136
02:17:39,760 --> 02:17:41,840
and there were reasons for those porches

3137
02:17:41,840 --> 02:17:44,240
for families who went to work and came

3138
02:17:44,240 --> 02:17:46,160
back to relax before they worked for

3139
02:17:46,160 --> 02:17:49,200
their family. Um, so I just wanted to

3140
02:17:49,200 --> 02:17:50,880
know why you couldn't keep the bricks

3141
02:17:50,880 --> 02:17:53,359
and and restore the brick building

3142
02:17:53,359 --> 02:17:55,439
instead of putting this building up that

3143
02:17:55,439 --> 02:17:57,599
does not comply with the little Jackson

3144
02:17:57,599 --> 02:17:58,479
community.

3145
02:17:58,479 --> 02:18:01,280
>> Oh, we're not we're keep it's exact

3146
02:18:01,280 --> 02:18:02,880
surely it's the same building. We're

3147
02:18:02,880 --> 02:18:06,240
just limewashing the existing brick.

3148
02:18:06,240 --> 02:18:08,880
>> The other thing is um are the people who

3149
02:18:08,880 --> 02:18:11,840
will be moving in are they owners of the

3150
02:18:11,840 --> 02:18:14,240
house or are they renters? rent. It'll

3151
02:18:14,240 --> 02:18:21,270
be three apartment units.

3152
02:18:21,280 --> 02:18:22,639
» You can hear us.

3153
02:18:22,639 --> 02:18:28,950
>> Thank you.

3154
02:18:28,960 --> 02:18:34,629
» So, my comments are um

3155
02:18:34,639 --> 02:18:38,080
that it cleans it up.

3156
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:40,160
Um

3157
02:18:40,160 --> 02:18:41,920
the form of the building is probably its

3158
02:18:41,920 --> 02:18:44,160
most significant

3159
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:46,559
attribute to the street.

3160
02:18:46,559 --> 02:18:52,950
I I think it wasn't a uh high

3161
02:18:52,960 --> 02:18:56,080
material, high quality

3162
02:18:56,080 --> 02:18:58,719
structure, exterior finish to begin

3163
02:18:58,719 --> 02:19:01,840
with. Um it was probably on the rebound

3164
02:19:01,840 --> 02:19:04,080
of whatever the building was lost,

3165
02:19:04,080 --> 02:19:06,639
either a new investor or someone who had

3166
02:19:06,639 --> 02:19:09,040
to rebuild something after after what

3167
02:19:09,040 --> 02:19:11,519
happened. So, I think it's just a

3168
02:19:11,519 --> 02:19:13,519
straightforward, honest kind of building

3169
02:19:13,519 --> 02:19:16,880
that we're trying to straighten up some.

3170
02:19:16,880 --> 02:19:20,230
Um,

3171
02:19:20,240 --> 02:19:24,000
I think it's unfortunate that um the

3172
02:19:24,000 --> 02:19:25,920
electric or the gas meters caused that

3173
02:19:25,920 --> 02:19:28,800
kind of trouble for not having a porch.

3174
02:19:28,800 --> 02:19:30,960
However, I would also say that this

3175
02:19:30,960 --> 02:19:33,679
building just didn't have a porch. it

3176
02:19:33,679 --> 02:19:35,200
just

3177
02:19:35,200 --> 02:19:36,880
uh it would be a nice feature if it

3178
02:19:36,880 --> 02:19:38,319
could be added, but it's not like we're

3179
02:19:38,319 --> 02:19:40,160
trying to get back something that had

3180
02:19:40,160 --> 02:19:42,160
been taken away.

3181
02:19:42,160 --> 02:19:46,399
>> Mhm. Um I understand the importance um

3182
02:19:46,399 --> 02:19:49,120
surely of the um of the nature of the

3183
02:19:49,120 --> 02:19:50,560
porches in this neighborhood that's been

3184
02:19:50,560 --> 02:19:52,319
brought up many many times over the

3185
02:19:52,319 --> 02:19:55,120
years and it has a real social compound

3186
02:19:55,120 --> 02:19:57,359
component to it but it I don't think it

3187
02:19:57,359 --> 02:20:01,120
just ever existed on this building and I

3188
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:03,760
think trying to apply one to it given

3189
02:20:03,760 --> 02:20:06,000
the challenges

3190
02:20:06,000 --> 02:20:07,520
>> and I think from your opening statement

3191
02:20:07,520 --> 02:20:09,600
that you did look at that

3192
02:20:09,600 --> 02:20:14,230
>> and I appreciate that. Um,

3193
02:20:14,240 --> 02:20:18,720
getting the windows a little more uh

3194
02:20:18,720 --> 02:20:20,160
relatable to each other, I guess that's

3195
02:20:20,160 --> 02:20:21,359
the way to say it, or to get the

3196
02:20:21,359 --> 02:20:24,560
geometry looking neat. I think it's a

3197
02:20:24,560 --> 02:20:28,160
plus. I think the shed over the uh front

3198
02:20:28,160 --> 02:20:30,800
doors

3199
02:20:30,800 --> 02:20:34,080
is fine. Um, I don't really see much

3200
02:20:34,080 --> 02:20:38,160
else to recommend or suggest. I I think it's

3201
02:20:38,160 --> 02:20:41,120
a nice straightforward project. Um,

3202
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:42,560
commission members, if I'm going on too

3203
02:20:42,560 --> 02:20:43,920
far and you have a different thought,

3204
02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:48,790
please say so.

3205
02:20:48,800 --> 02:20:51,439
» So, these are um just comments and

3206
02:20:51,439 --> 02:20:53,040
recommendations. We don't take any

3207
02:20:53,040 --> 02:20:56,640
action. Um, I hope that that's useful.

3208
02:20:56,640 --> 02:20:57,439
>> Very useful.

3209
02:20:57,439 --> 02:20:59,840
>> Um, I think it's always nice to see

3210
02:20:59,840 --> 02:21:02,000
investment in projects, buildings that

3211
02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:04,080
may have gotten away from an owner, a

3212
02:21:04,080 --> 02:21:06,560
new owner trying to to do things as

3213
02:21:06,560 --> 02:21:07,920
good.

3214
02:21:07,920 --> 02:21:09,359
Sarah, from a staff point of view, is

3215
02:21:09,359 --> 02:21:14,870
there anything else we need on this?

3216
02:21:14,880 --> 02:21:16,000
» Okay.

3217
02:21:16,000 --> 02:21:17,520
>> Nope, nothing on my end. It's I mean,

3218
02:21:17,520 --> 02:21:19,280
it's concept review, so it's

3219
02:21:19,280 --> 02:21:22,080
>> your guys feedback, my feedback, and we

3220
02:21:22,080 --> 02:21:23,680
wait for the application from there.

3221
02:21:23,680 --> 02:21:24,240
>> Yep.

3222
02:21:24,240 --> 02:21:24,720
>> Great.

3223
02:21:24,720 --> 02:21:25,840
>> Come back and see us.

3224
02:21:25,840 --> 02:21:27,280
>> Thank you so much. Thank you.

3225
02:21:27,280 --> 02:21:28,080
>> Very helpful.

3226
02:21:28,080 --> 02:21:31,750
>> Thank you,

3227
02:21:31,760 --> 02:21:33,200
» gentlemen. And I just want to say for

3228
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:36,560
somebody who um lives on Birch Avenue,

3229
02:21:36,560 --> 02:21:38,880
uh well done.

3230
02:21:38,880 --> 02:21:42,080
We it it's a plus. It is well done and

3231
02:21:42,080 --> 02:21:45,280
it it's going to replace what during my

3232
02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:47,680
lifetime is something that I don't think

3233
02:21:47,680 --> 02:21:50,479
really lends itself to the to the to the

3234
02:21:50,479 --> 02:21:53,200
streetscape at all. So this really is

3235
02:21:53,200 --> 02:21:55,680
mimicking more of what is now in Birch

3236
02:21:55,680 --> 02:21:57,520
Avenue. And I don't think you left the

3237
02:21:57,520 --> 02:21:59,280
history at all. I think you enhanced it.

3238
02:21:59,280 --> 02:22:00,399
So well done.

3239
02:22:00,399 --> 02:22:11,030
>> Thank you. Thank you.

3240
02:22:11,040 --> 02:22:12,960
Sarah, I see that we have um a couple

3241
02:22:12,960 --> 02:22:16,800
other items before um the state historic

3242
02:22:16,800 --> 02:22:18,560
markers or do you want to go to that and

3243
02:22:18,560 --> 02:22:21,830
come back?

3244
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:24,240
» It looks like um public comment, staff

3245
02:22:24,240 --> 02:22:26,080
report, member report. You

3246
02:22:26,080 --> 02:22:27,600
>> Well, I mean, we have public comment,

3247
02:22:27,600 --> 02:22:30,720
but I think Kip is the public at this

3248
02:22:30,720 --> 02:22:33,359
point. Um, [laughter]

3249
02:22:33,359 --> 02:22:36,880
I outside of the design guidelines, I

3250
02:22:36,880 --> 02:22:38,479
don't have anything additional to

3251
02:22:38,479 --> 02:22:39,200
report.

3252
02:22:39,200 --> 02:22:40,560
>> All right, we'll come back to that in a

3253
02:22:40,560 --> 02:22:42,000
minute. Kip, do you want to come on up

3254
02:22:42,000 --> 02:22:59,110
and tell us tell us the stuff you know?

3255
02:22:59,120 --> 02:23:01,040
So, this shouldn't take very long, I

3256
02:23:01,040 --> 02:23:03,520
hope. Um,

3257
02:23:03,520 --> 02:23:07,280
I've got the text for you to review

3258
02:23:07,280 --> 02:23:12,379
>> signs.

3259
02:23:12,389 --> 02:23:14,710
[clears throat]

3260
02:23:14,720 --> 02:23:16,240
» Since this is being recorded, I think

3261
02:23:16,240 --> 02:23:18,240
you need to get closer to the microphone

3262
02:23:18,240 --> 02:23:21,120
just so we can hear you, but for the

3263
02:23:21,120 --> 02:23:22,960
recording purposes. Oh, yeah.

3264
02:23:22,960 --> 02:23:30,309
>> Thank you.

3265
02:23:30,319 --> 02:23:39,190
Is that what this is?

3266
02:23:39,200 --> 02:23:41,200
» So, um, a lot of people have been kind

3267
02:23:41,200 --> 02:23:43,680
of confused about how we even got

3268
02:23:43,680 --> 02:23:47,120
started on this. Um, the idea was to do

3269
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:49,600
something for the 250th

3270
02:23:49,600 --> 02:23:51,600
and Elizabeth thought that that this

3271
02:23:51,600 --> 02:23:53,920
would be a really great idea. I don't

3272
02:23:53,920 --> 02:23:56,080
think that the HPC really focused on it

3273
02:23:56,080 --> 02:24:00,720
very much. So, uh I was hoping to shovel

3274
02:24:00,720 --> 02:24:02,720
it off on someone else, but that didn't

3275
02:24:02,720 --> 02:24:04,720
work. [laughter]

3276
02:24:04,720 --> 02:24:08,640
So, um it's a very simple uh sign that

3277
02:24:08,640 --> 02:24:11,600
is used standard. Nothing unusual about

3278
02:24:11,600 --> 02:24:16,240
it. Um you're allowed 50 um characters

3279
02:24:16,240 --> 02:24:21,760
in the title and uh 615 in the text.

3280
02:24:21,760 --> 02:24:25,520
So, uh, it's been hard to come up with a

3281
02:24:25,520 --> 02:24:28,720
blurb that that really worked. So, the

3282
02:24:28,720 --> 02:24:30,560
one that we've been using as a base is

3283
02:24:30,560 --> 02:24:32,160
the one really that David thought was

3284
02:24:32,160 --> 02:24:35,280
the best one. And then, uh, Will had

3285
02:24:35,280 --> 02:24:37,760
some ideas. And so, it's it's sort of,

3286
02:24:37,760 --> 02:24:40,720
uh, evolved. Uh, but the basic idea is

3287
02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:43,439
that it's got to be under 615 characters

3288
02:24:43,439 --> 02:24:45,840
no matter what.

3289
02:24:45,840 --> 02:24:48,240
Uh, also the sign is along the uh,

3290
02:24:48,240 --> 02:24:50,399
Quaker Bridge Road, not at the

3291
02:24:50,399 --> 02:24:53,520
battlefield per se. So that there's got

3292
02:24:53,520 --> 02:24:54,880
to be something in the sign that

3293
02:24:54,880 --> 02:24:56,720
indicates to people that you're not at

3294
02:24:56,720 --> 02:24:58,399
the battlefield. Otherwise, people are

3295
02:24:58,399 --> 02:25:02,240
going to turn into the tow uh the toe

3296
02:25:02,240 --> 02:25:03,520
path parking lot and think they're at

3297
02:25:03,520 --> 02:25:05,280
the battlefield.

3298
02:25:05,280 --> 02:25:07,680
So, um,

3299
02:25:07,680 --> 02:25:11,200
let me just, uh, read it really quick

3300
02:25:11,200 --> 02:25:13,680
and then I think you can vote on it so

3301
02:25:13,680 --> 02:25:15,920
that somebody's voted on it anyway. And

3302
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:18,880
then Mark Texel maintains the

3303
02:25:18,880 --> 02:25:21,200
prerogative of still making changes. So,

3304
02:25:21,200 --> 02:25:23,680
we're not the end of the line.

3305
02:25:23,680 --> 02:25:28,469
So, this is this is a state project

3306
02:25:28,479 --> 02:25:32,080
and that's why that's why council is not

3307
02:25:32,080 --> 02:25:33,920
it's not necessary for council to get

3308
02:25:33,920 --> 02:25:37,040
that involved in the weeds. Um they

3309
02:25:37,040 --> 02:25:38,399
don't know that much about the battle

3310
02:25:38,399 --> 02:25:42,080
anyway and uh the state is going to be

3311
02:25:42,080 --> 02:25:44,080
trumping everything. So,

3312
02:25:44,080 --> 02:25:44,880
>> very good.

3313
02:25:44,880 --> 02:25:46,560
>> You know, this this is the best we can

3314
02:25:46,560 --> 02:25:48,640
do with it and then the state will do

3315
02:25:48,640 --> 02:25:50,240
whatever they're the state is going to

3316
02:25:50,240 --> 02:25:53,429
do.

3317
02:25:53,439 --> 02:25:57,040
So, um, along this road, General George

3318
02:25:57,040 --> 02:25:58,880
Washington and the Continental Army

3319
02:25:58,880 --> 02:26:01,840
approached Princeton on January 3rd,

3320
02:26:01,840 --> 02:26:03,760
1777.

3321
02:26:03,760 --> 02:26:06,240
Slipping away from Trenton, Continental

3322
02:26:06,240 --> 02:26:08,880
forces had marched overnight along

3323
02:26:08,880 --> 02:26:11,600
freezing back roads to surprise the

3324
02:26:11,600 --> 02:26:14,720
British garrison at Princeton. Unaware

3325
02:26:14,720 --> 02:26:16,560
of the approaching army, the British

3326
02:26:16,560 --> 02:26:18,560
force from Princeton was marching south

3327
02:26:18,560 --> 02:26:21,280
towards Trenton.

3328
02:26:21,280 --> 02:26:24,399
Uh now I just said towards and ra and

3329
02:26:24,399 --> 02:26:25,920
rather than sing I have to look at that

3330
02:26:25,920 --> 02:26:28,880
again whether it should be single or or

3331
02:26:28,880 --> 02:26:31,920
you know toward or tors. Uh leaving only

3332
02:26:31,920 --> 02:26:34,960
a contingency behind. As fighting broke

3333
02:26:34,960 --> 02:26:37,439
out both armies rushed onto the farms of

3334
02:26:37,439 --> 02:26:40,399
Quaker brothers Thomas and William Clark

3335
02:26:40,399 --> 02:26:43,359
while Continental General Hugh M. Mercer

3336
02:26:43,359 --> 02:26:45,520
was mortally wounded. The battle was a

3337
02:26:45,520 --> 02:26:49,040
critical turning point for the patriots.

3338
02:26:49,040 --> 02:26:51,920
So that's it. Um, and no, it's not a

3339
02:26:51,920 --> 02:26:56,399
poem. It's not supposed to be poetical.

3340
02:26:56,399 --> 02:26:59,439
It's supposed to provide information in

3341
02:26:59,439 --> 02:27:02,560
as tightly as as one can and make it as

3342
02:27:02,560 --> 02:27:06,080
interesting as one can. So, um, you

3343
02:27:06,080 --> 02:27:07,680
know, we wanted to include something in

3344
02:27:07,680 --> 02:27:10,880
there about the u freezing back roads.

3345
02:27:10,880 --> 02:27:12,399
That was something that kept getting

3346
02:27:12,399 --> 02:27:17,439
knocked out and put back in because it creates the environment of of what

3347
02:27:17,439 --> 02:27:20,399
that day was like as people are looking

3348
02:27:20,399 --> 02:27:22,240
at the sign.

3349
02:27:22,240 --> 02:27:24,160
So the idea is if you look at your

3350
02:27:24,160 --> 02:27:27,520
chart, your diagram,

3351
02:27:27,520 --> 02:27:30,800
if you're coming from uh does everybody

3352
02:27:30,800 --> 02:27:34,240
have a copy? Okay. as you're coming from

3353
02:27:34,240 --> 02:27:37,280
the big box shopping center and crossing

3354
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:39,760
the canal and that little bridge and

3355
02:27:39,760 --> 02:27:43,359
then uh you are going along the canal

3356
02:27:43,359 --> 02:27:46,640
and making a turn at the toe path uh

3357
02:27:46,640 --> 02:27:50,319
park. So the first of all the criteria

3358
02:27:50,319 --> 02:27:53,280
for this location had to be stateowned

3359
02:27:53,280 --> 02:27:54,960
property. That was the number one

3360
02:27:54,960 --> 02:27:57,600
criteria. It couldn't be anything else.

3361
02:27:57,600 --> 02:27:59,359
Um

3362
02:27:59,359 --> 02:28:02,160
and of course the state had to bless the

3363
02:28:02,160 --> 02:28:04,720
idea of it and and what the state has

3364
02:28:04,720 --> 02:28:08,399
final say. So uh you know some people

3365
02:28:08,399 --> 02:28:11,120
may say well why did it happen this way?

3366
02:28:11,120 --> 02:28:12,479
You know why wasn't the Princeton

3367
02:28:12,479 --> 02:28:15,200
Battlefield Society more involved? All

3368
02:28:15,200 --> 02:28:17,040
these different things. Well it's just

3369
02:28:17,040 --> 02:28:19,680
the way it it worked because the uh

3370
02:28:19,680 --> 02:28:22,880
state was in charge of the program and

3371
02:28:22,880 --> 02:28:24,479
if you wanted to participate you had to

3372
02:28:24,479 --> 02:28:26,880
apply to the state.

3373
02:28:26,880 --> 02:28:29,680
Uh the the state incidentally uh you

3374
02:28:29,680 --> 02:28:31,200
know they gave me a pretty rough time.

3375
02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:33,840
They wanted a lot of um original

3376
02:28:33,840 --> 02:28:35,520
citations

3377
02:28:35,520 --> 02:28:37,680
to demonstrate that the battle of

3378
02:28:37,680 --> 02:28:40,479
Princeton had happened and you know

3379
02:28:40,479 --> 02:28:44,000
there's very little original material.

3380
02:28:44,000 --> 02:28:46,479
So uh I almost got knocked out of the

3381
02:28:46,479 --> 02:28:48,640
ballpark because of that. They were not

3382
02:28:48,640 --> 02:28:50,399
satisfied.

3383
02:28:50,399 --> 02:28:52,080
Now, you know, the Battle of Princeton

3384
02:28:52,080 --> 02:28:55,520
was a big thing and very and a long time

3385
02:28:55,520 --> 02:28:59,040
ago. Um, there are a lot of small

3386
02:28:59,040 --> 02:29:00,960
historic houses and that kind of thing

3387
02:29:00,960 --> 02:29:02,640
around and people can document that

3388
02:29:02,640 --> 02:29:04,800
fairly well, but it's very hard to

3389
02:29:04,800 --> 02:29:07,920
document the Battle of Princeton. So,

3390
02:29:07,920 --> 02:29:10,560
um, and incidentally, um, I think we

3391
02:29:10,560 --> 02:29:13,120
paid about $4 million for the property

3392
02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:15,439
from the institute.

3393
02:29:15,439 --> 02:29:17,520
Um, I've been involved now in two other

3394
02:29:17,520 --> 02:29:20,560
acquisitions at Mammoth. We just closed

3395
02:29:20,560 --> 02:29:23,600
two weeks ago on a property

3396
02:29:23,600 --> 02:29:26,399
uh in roughly the same size. Let's say

3397
02:29:26,399 --> 02:29:28,800
$15 million is how much the state had to

3398
02:29:28,800 --> 02:29:29,520
pay for that.

3399
02:29:29,520 --> 02:29:30,479
>> Wow.

3400
02:29:30,479 --> 02:29:34,720
>> So uh you know this and you know it was

3401
02:29:34,720 --> 02:29:36,479
nip and tuck as to whether or not we w

3402
02:29:36,479 --> 02:29:39,200
were going to be successful and what the

3403
02:29:39,200 --> 02:29:40,880
state does with the property remains to

3404
02:29:40,880 --> 02:29:42,720
be seen and I don't know. I'm sure

3405
02:29:42,720 --> 02:29:45,680
that'll be a matter of great discussion.

3406
02:29:45,680 --> 02:29:47,520
And when you talk about orchards, for

3407
02:29:47,520 --> 02:29:49,359
instance, it sounds very nice to put it

3408
02:29:49,359 --> 02:29:50,960
in an orchard because there were

3409
02:29:50,960 --> 02:29:52,960
orchards all over the place, but there

3410
02:29:52,960 --> 02:29:55,520
was no orchard there at the time. Now,

3411
02:29:55,520 --> 02:29:58,160
later on in the 1940s,

3412
02:29:58,160 --> 02:30:01,200
the seller grew up on an orchard that

3413
02:30:01,200 --> 02:30:03,840
was right there. The seller was actually

3414
02:30:03,840 --> 02:30:07,280
the original the owner from the 1940s.

3415
02:30:07,280 --> 02:30:09,040
Uh, and his parents came along and

3416
02:30:09,040 --> 02:30:10,800
bought the milk farm, and that's what it

3417
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:14,080
was at the time, and put an orchard into

3418
02:30:14,080 --> 02:30:16,000
it. They thought they could make a life

3419
02:30:16,000 --> 02:30:18,479
that way and and you know orchard

3420
02:30:18,479 --> 02:30:20,960
remnants still remain and they still

3421
02:30:20,960 --> 02:30:23,280
have a store there. It's a pie. They

3422
02:30:23,280 --> 02:30:28,000
sell pies and uh so the parents are gone

3423
02:30:28,000 --> 02:30:31,520
and uh Mr. Junko waited until his mother

3424
02:30:31,520 --> 02:30:34,080
died before he embarked on this thing. I

3425
02:30:34,080 --> 02:30:35,120
don't think she would have been very

3426
02:30:35,120 --> 02:30:37,600
happy with him. He never was into the

3427
02:30:37,600 --> 02:30:39,600
American Revolution. It was just a pain

3428
02:30:39,600 --> 02:30:42,000
in the butt as a kid. He just didn't

3429
02:30:42,000 --> 02:30:44,960
respect it at all. And then his parents

3430
02:30:44,960 --> 02:30:47,040
came up with this this idea of selling

3431
02:30:47,040 --> 02:30:49,680
pies and his mother came up with special

3432
02:30:49,680 --> 02:30:52,560
recipes. And so people going along Route

3433
02:30:52,560 --> 02:30:55,680
33 to the shore would stop and buy a pie

3434
02:30:55,680 --> 02:30:58,080
coming and going. And they're still

3435
02:30:58,080 --> 02:30:59,520
struggling along. You would think that

3436
02:30:59,520 --> 02:31:01,200
they would have given up a long time ago

3437
02:31:01,200 --> 02:31:02,880
and said, "Well, you know, this business

3438
02:31:02,880 --> 02:31:04,880
doesn't have any real future." But

3439
02:31:04,880 --> 02:31:07,520
they're still at it. So, uh, and they're

3440
02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:09,040
not making a lot of money on this

3441
02:31:09,040 --> 02:31:11,439
because they gave everything that they

3442
02:31:11,439 --> 02:31:14,880
were entitled to to the brother Junko,

3443
02:31:14,880 --> 02:31:17,600
Mr. Junko, the son, and he's the one

3444
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:19,520
making the money, not not the rest of

3445
02:31:19,520 --> 02:31:21,600
the family. So, that's just a

3446
02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:25,280
parenthetical comment. So, um, on this

3447
02:31:25,280 --> 02:31:27,600
chart, you can see, uh, where the cars

3448
02:31:27,600 --> 02:31:30,080
are parked. The, uh, tow path is over on

3449
02:31:30,080 --> 02:31:32,720
the, uh, right side there, the east

3450
02:31:32,720 --> 02:31:35,120
side. and you see this little star and

3451
02:31:35,120 --> 02:31:37,120
that's where we propose to put the uh

3452
02:31:37,120 --> 02:31:40,640
the sign. So, as you come around the

3453
02:31:40,640 --> 02:31:44,880
curve, you will see the sign. Um if

3454
02:31:44,880 --> 02:31:46,880
somebody parks right in front of it, you

3455
02:31:46,880 --> 02:31:48,880
know, we had there's some jostling about

3456
02:31:48,880 --> 02:31:51,680
how to avoid that. So, it's moved a

3457
02:31:51,680 --> 02:31:54,479
little bit uh to the left towards Stony

3458
02:31:54,479 --> 02:31:57,600
Brook uh to try to avoid people parking

3459
02:31:57,600 --> 02:32:00,399
right in front of it. Um what if there

3460
02:32:00,399 --> 02:32:02,560
are a lot of weeds growing up around it?

3461
02:32:02,560 --> 02:32:04,560
Well, it's going to be the

3462
02:32:04,560 --> 02:32:07,200
responsibility of the state to maintain

3463
02:32:07,200 --> 02:32:11,600
the the sign. Um, but uh the locals are

3464
02:32:11,600 --> 02:32:14,000
supposed to report problems. So, you

3465
02:32:14,000 --> 02:32:16,319
know, if the battlefield uh society

3466
02:32:16,319 --> 02:32:18,000
sees, you know, it's not being well

3467
02:32:18,000 --> 02:32:20,319
taken care of, they need to report that

3468
02:32:20,319 --> 02:32:23,040
or any vandalism. Now, it would be nice

3469
02:32:23,040 --> 02:32:24,640
to put a little circle of something

3470
02:32:24,640 --> 02:32:27,520
around it so people don't actually put

3471
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:29,200
the front of their car right in front of

3472
02:32:29,200 --> 02:32:31,920
it, but that's getting too complicated.

3473
02:32:31,920 --> 02:32:34,560
So, you know, I think maybe the garden

3474
02:32:34,560 --> 02:32:36,399
society might come along later and say,

3475
02:32:36,399 --> 02:32:37,920
"Well, we could make that a little

3476
02:32:37,920 --> 02:32:39,600
better because those weeds are not very

3477
02:32:39,600 --> 02:32:41,520
good." And that's what will happen. I'm

3478
02:32:41,520 --> 02:32:44,399
sure there'll be some weeds and maybe um

3479
02:32:44,399 --> 02:32:46,080
you know, gravel. There are no

3480
02:32:46,080 --> 02:32:49,680
provisions for designing the pad around

3481
02:32:49,680 --> 02:32:52,479
the the marker and maybe we can prevail

3482
02:32:52,479 --> 02:32:55,359
upon them. The the way this is going to

3483
02:32:55,359 --> 02:32:57,280
work is first of all, we have to have

3484
02:32:57,280 --> 02:32:58,479
some people that are going to take

3485
02:32:58,479 --> 02:33:01,760
responsibility for getting the sign off

3486
02:33:01,760 --> 02:33:04,800
the truck. That's not that easy. Nobody

3487
02:33:04,800 --> 02:33:07,520
wants to take responsibility for that.

3488
02:33:07,520 --> 02:33:09,280
Uh and then there are people with bad

3489
02:33:09,280 --> 02:33:11,920
backs and all this kind of stuff. So,

3490
02:33:11,920 --> 02:33:14,319
right now, we don't actually have it

3491
02:33:14,319 --> 02:33:16,560
figured out totally. We're just saying

3492
02:33:16,560 --> 02:33:18,399
parks maintenance is going to pull it

3493
02:33:18,399 --> 02:33:21,600
off the truck or, you know, sometimes

3494
02:33:21,600 --> 02:33:23,359
the truck driver will help and sometimes

3495
02:33:23,359 --> 02:33:26,240
they won't. So, it's going to go into

3496
02:33:26,240 --> 02:33:28,240
some kind of maintenance facility

3497
02:33:28,240 --> 02:33:31,280
associated with parks. Uh, I was hoping

3498
02:33:31,280 --> 02:33:33,280
to put it in the uh in that extra

3499
02:33:33,280 --> 02:33:35,359
building at the Clark House, but there's

3500
02:33:35,359 --> 02:33:38,080
it's full of stuff already. So, but that

3501
02:33:38,080 --> 02:33:39,600
would be the ideal place for it because

3502
02:33:39,600 --> 02:33:41,200
that wouldn't be very far away and we

3503
02:33:41,200 --> 02:33:43,920
kind of keep an eye on it. I I hope it

3504
02:33:43,920 --> 02:33:47,600
doesn't take forever to get the thing uh

3505
02:33:47,600 --> 02:33:49,520
installed. That's another thing.

3506
02:33:49,520 --> 02:33:50,720
Politically, you know, we're going to

3507
02:33:50,720 --> 02:33:53,439
have to be after the maintenance folks

3508
02:33:53,439 --> 02:33:56,240
to get it, and that's Mark Texel and his

3509
02:33:56,240 --> 02:33:59,600
capabilities to get it installed.

3510
02:33:59,600 --> 02:34:01,760
And you know, there some of the parks

3511
02:34:01,760 --> 02:34:03,680
don't have superintendent. I'm not quite

3512
02:34:03,680 --> 02:34:05,439
clear on where Washington's Crossing is

3513
02:34:05,439 --> 02:34:07,359
right now in terms of having a

3514
02:34:07,359 --> 02:34:08,880
superintendent.

3515
02:34:08,880 --> 02:34:11,840
Um you know, Will is it at Princess

3516
02:34:11,840 --> 02:34:12,880
Battlefield. there was no

3517
02:34:12,880 --> 02:34:14,479
superintendent.

3518
02:34:14,479 --> 02:34:16,720
So, you know, it's very murky as to how

3519
02:34:16,720 --> 02:34:18,479
to make all this work. And it's going to

3520
02:34:18,479 --> 02:34:21,760
take I mean, I don't imagine walking

3521
02:34:21,760 --> 02:34:23,520
away from it. I imagine, you know,

3522
02:34:23,520 --> 02:34:25,600
hanging in there until it's actually in

3523
02:34:25,600 --> 02:34:28,080
the ground. And then I'm hoping that we

3524
02:34:28,080 --> 02:34:30,560
will have some kind of a uh a

3525
02:34:30,560 --> 02:34:33,200
celebration the way we did at the

3526
02:34:33,200 --> 02:34:34,800
battlefield.

3527
02:34:34,800 --> 02:34:37,040
um you know, invite all the monkeys and

3528
02:34:37,040 --> 02:34:41,200
have um some speeches and uh you know,

3529
02:34:41,200 --> 02:34:44,640
some refreshments and just say we did a

3530
02:34:44,640 --> 02:34:46,399
good job and this is wonderful kind of

3531
02:34:46,399 --> 02:34:50,160
stuff. So, um I think that'll that'll

3532
02:34:50,160 --> 02:34:53,680
work out very nicely. Um

3533
02:34:53,680 --> 02:34:56,240
and and then you know the the the the

3534
02:34:56,240 --> 02:34:59,120
tow path parking lot is taken care of by

3535
02:34:59,120 --> 02:35:02,399
parks maintenance not very well and you

3536
02:35:02,399 --> 02:35:04,800
know it's got this kind of ugly uh guard

3537
02:35:04,800 --> 02:35:10,160
rail. Um they did recently restore the

3538
02:35:10,160 --> 02:35:13,040
bridge over Stony Brook. I doubt if it

3539
02:35:13,040 --> 02:35:15,760
was really a restoration but it looks

3540
02:35:15,760 --> 02:35:20,960
nice. Uh so uh you know that's there and

3541
02:35:20,960 --> 02:35:23,439
uh and people can walk on this little

3542
02:35:23,439 --> 02:35:28,080
pathway from the toe path parking lot to

3543
02:35:28,080 --> 02:35:29,840
um the Stony Brook and look over the

3544
02:35:29,840 --> 02:35:32,240
bridge and into the water.

3545
02:35:32,240 --> 02:35:33,359
>> So that's very nice.

3546
02:35:33,359 --> 02:35:35,680
>> That's pretty much it. Yeah, it's very

3547
02:35:35,680 --> 02:35:37,920
simple and straightforward

3548
02:35:37,920 --> 02:35:41,200
and uh it's just a matter of, you know,

3549
02:35:41,200 --> 02:35:42,640
keeping the pressure up to make sure

3550
02:35:42,640 --> 02:35:43,920
this thing gets

3551
02:35:43,920 --> 02:35:45,520
>> Well, I think you've been doing a good

3552
02:35:45,520 --> 02:35:48,319
job of that and um I appreciate it. I

3553
02:35:48,319 --> 02:35:50,160
think the way you've got it edited right

3554
02:35:50,160 --> 02:35:51,840
now, it reads beautifully. It's

3555
02:35:51,840 --> 02:35:53,840
evocative of the day. You get a real

3556
02:35:53,840 --> 02:35:56,160
picture of what's going on and you got

3557
02:35:56,160 --> 02:35:57,680
within the word count or the letter

3558
02:35:57,680 --> 02:36:00,479
count, which is not easy.

3559
02:36:00,479 --> 02:36:02,560
>> Thank you. Well, the the state has um

3560
02:36:02,560 --> 02:36:06,479
seven um signs that they're responsible

3561
02:36:06,479 --> 02:36:09,040
for. Anybody could could apply for a

3562
02:36:09,040 --> 02:36:09,920
sign.

3563
02:36:09,920 --> 02:36:12,319
>> So, you know, HPC applied for the sign.

3564
02:36:12,319 --> 02:36:14,560
The state did not apply for the sign.

3565
02:36:14,560 --> 02:36:16,640
The council did not apply for the sign.

3566
02:36:16,640 --> 02:36:18,560
That was something that HPC did. And I

3567
02:36:18,560 --> 02:36:20,800
think it was fully within the

3568
02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:22,800
responsibilities and authority of the

3569
02:36:22,800 --> 02:36:26,960
HPC to to make that application. And

3570
02:36:26,960 --> 02:36:30,080
then um so now, you know, we're kind of

3571
02:36:30,080 --> 02:36:32,000
in a stack because the state said,

3572
02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:35,359
"Well, uh since, you know, you have to

3573
02:36:35,359 --> 02:36:37,280
have our okay because it's on state

3574
02:36:37,280 --> 02:36:39,280
property and we're going to have to work

3575
02:36:39,280 --> 02:36:40,720
it out with maintenance, we'll kind of

3576
02:36:40,720 --> 02:36:43,040
take it over and and add it to our

3577
02:36:43,040 --> 02:36:45,840
list." So, they have a gal now in charge

3578
02:36:45,840 --> 02:36:48,560
of the list. So, you know, I'm trying

3579
02:36:48,560 --> 02:36:50,160
not to get buried in that thing because

3580
02:36:50,160 --> 02:36:51,680
I want to make sure that we get this

3581
02:36:51,680 --> 02:36:54,560
thing done and have a nice 250th

3582
02:36:54,560 --> 02:36:58,560
acknowledgement next year. So, um so

3583
02:36:58,560 --> 02:37:00,479
that's that's the whole deal.

3584
02:37:00,479 --> 02:37:01,600
>> Very good.

3585
02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:04,640
>> And then, um maybe Sarah, could you pass

3586
02:37:04,640 --> 02:37:07,600
this around? This is the u

3587
02:37:07,600 --> 02:37:10,720
that's what the uh the exhibit looks

3588
02:37:10,720 --> 02:37:11,840
like.

3589
02:37:11,840 --> 02:37:14,479
>> And it was at the library. And Leighton,

3590
02:37:14,479 --> 02:37:16,080
I think, was very concerned that, oh

3591
02:37:16,080 --> 02:37:17,920
gee, the library is, you know, got

3592
02:37:17,920 --> 02:37:19,600
something going on and we're, you know,

3593
02:37:19,600 --> 02:37:21,920
we'll be behind because we're not doing

3594
02:37:21,920 --> 02:37:25,200
ours until next year. But I don't know

3595
02:37:25,200 --> 02:37:26,960
what was going on with the library, but

3596
02:37:26,960 --> 02:37:29,680
they stuck it in a corner. It wasn't

3597
02:37:29,680 --> 02:37:31,680
really noticeable. It wasn't pleasant to

3598
02:37:31,680 --> 02:37:33,520
go through it from my point of view.

3599
02:37:33,520 --> 02:37:34,000
Mhm.

3600
02:37:34,000 --> 02:37:37,760
>> And it's a rather odd exhibit because um

3601
02:37:37,760 --> 02:37:41,359
each panel is is a little bio, but it's

3602
02:37:41,359 --> 02:37:45,359
on people that are not commonly known

3603
02:37:45,359 --> 02:37:47,120
and and it's not as though there's a

3604
02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:49,040
little bio like Hugh Mercer, you know,

3605
02:37:49,040 --> 02:37:50,560
some of the famous people that kids

3606
02:37:50,560 --> 02:37:53,920
could learn more about. These are on

3607
02:37:53,920 --> 02:37:57,280
fairly unknown people. Now, that's not

3608
02:37:57,280 --> 02:37:58,960
to say that they shouldn't be known. I

3609
02:37:58,960 --> 02:38:00,800
mean they made a contribution at the

3610
02:38:00,800 --> 02:38:03,840
time and some of them were slaves which

3611
02:38:03,840 --> 02:38:07,840
is pretty exciting. Um, but the names

3612
02:38:07,840 --> 02:38:11,120
weren't known and I didn't find when I

3613
02:38:11,120 --> 02:38:14,640
went through the panels that I

3614
02:38:14,640 --> 02:38:18,160
they took it in really, you know, I I it

3615
02:38:18,160 --> 02:38:20,080
didn't really it wasn't that meaningful

3616
02:38:20,080 --> 02:38:21,760
to me for some reason,

3617
02:38:21,760 --> 02:38:24,000
>> which for would be just

3618
02:38:24,000 --> 02:38:25,600
>> but it is what it is,

3619
02:38:25,600 --> 02:38:26,479
>> you know. Yeah.

3620
02:38:26,479 --> 02:38:29,040
>> So, I think that to add to that, um, if

3621
02:38:29,040 --> 02:38:30,800
we had some handouts, which the library

3622
02:38:30,800 --> 02:38:34,240
didn't have, have some handouts on

3623
02:38:34,240 --> 02:38:36,160
people from Princeton who were involved

3624
02:38:36,160 --> 02:38:39,200
in the Battle of Princeton who are names

3625
02:38:39,200 --> 02:38:41,120
>> uh, including Orange who was an

3626
02:38:41,120 --> 02:38:44,479
African-American in the battle and um,

3627
02:38:44,479 --> 02:38:46,080
uh, there are a couple of other there

3628
02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:47,680
are several African-Americans in the

3629
02:38:47,680 --> 02:38:50,319
battle. U, so I think we could have at

3630
02:38:50,319 --> 02:38:53,600
least one handout on either on each one.

3631
02:38:53,600 --> 02:38:55,200
If we don't have enough material, then

3632
02:38:55,200 --> 02:38:56,960
we could have one that clusters them

3633
02:38:56,960 --> 02:38:59,760
together. And I think I could handle

3634
02:38:59,760 --> 02:39:06,479
doing the those handouts, uh, Leon, but they would be on people rather than

3635
02:39:06,479 --> 02:39:07,280
places.

3636
02:39:07,280 --> 02:39:07,680
>> Mhm.

3637
02:39:07,680 --> 02:39:09,600
>> So, you know, they're not not intended

3638
02:39:09,600 --> 02:39:13,040
to be a map or, uh, you know, explain

3639
02:39:13,040 --> 02:39:15,520
the battle. That's for the battlefield

3640
02:39:15,520 --> 02:39:17,760
to do. This is just a sort of an

3641
02:39:17,760 --> 02:39:20,319
augmentation to try to get a little

3642
02:39:20,319 --> 02:39:22,160
spirit going in the community. And there

3643
02:39:22,160 --> 02:39:24,800
isn't much spirit on the 250th

3644
02:39:24,800 --> 02:39:26,720
and it's not just in Princeton, it's

3645
02:39:26,720 --> 02:39:27,600
everywhere.

3646
02:39:27,600 --> 02:39:30,800
>> I was going to say it's it's it's a very

3647
02:39:30,800 --> 02:39:33,680
different event from the 200 that you

3648
02:39:33,680 --> 02:39:37,200
and I remember and it just I was hoping

3649
02:39:37,200 --> 02:39:39,120
it would actually trigger more interest

3650
02:39:39,120 --> 02:39:41,040
in history and more interest in historic

3651
02:39:41,040 --> 02:39:45,200
preservation as it did 50 years ago. Um,

3652
02:39:45,200 --> 02:39:46,880
but it's not to say that it's completely

3653
02:39:46,880 --> 02:39:48,560
lost and that Princeton has another

3654
02:39:48,560 --> 02:39:49,439
chance to

3655
02:39:49,439 --> 02:39:52,319
>> and it's up it's up to us and and um,

3656
02:39:52,319 --> 02:39:53,520
you know, we can give this good

3657
02:39:53,520 --> 02:39:56,880
promotion. Um, you know, I' I've done a

3658
02:39:56,880 --> 02:39:58,720
lot of promotion over time. So, I mean,

3659
02:39:58,720 --> 02:40:00,720
I can certainly and I think we should

3660
02:40:00,720 --> 02:40:02,720
approach the schools and see if they

3661
02:40:02,720 --> 02:40:04,960
can't get groups of kids over.

3662
02:40:04,960 --> 02:40:06,880
>> Now, one of the logistics is, you know,

3663
02:40:06,880 --> 02:40:08,720
are we going to have a host there when

3664
02:40:08,720 --> 02:40:11,439
people go through how to handle that?

3665
02:40:11,439 --> 02:40:13,359
and I'd like to get the mayor's opinion

3666
02:40:13,359 --> 02:40:16,080
about, you know, what he might envision.

3667
02:40:16,080 --> 02:40:19,600
Um, and we have to lay it out, you know,

3668
02:40:19,600 --> 02:40:23,120
so and we have to put it up ourselves.

3669
02:40:23,120 --> 02:40:25,600
So, uh, I'm a little concerned about

3670
02:40:25,600 --> 02:40:27,600
that because I'm not, you know, it

3671
02:40:27,600 --> 02:40:30,240
arrives in a big truck and you have to

3672
02:40:30,240 --> 02:40:31,600
kind of put it up and you don't know

3673
02:40:31,600 --> 02:40:33,040
what it's going to be like from the last

3674
02:40:33,040 --> 02:40:36,240
person who used it. So, um, you know, I

3675
02:40:36,240 --> 02:40:42,560
have to discuss that a little bit. that uh brochure. We only have that one.

3676
02:40:42,560 --> 02:40:43,359
Yeah.

3677
02:40:43,359 --> 02:40:44,720
>> We don't have, you know, and I'm going

3678
02:40:44,720 --> 02:40:46,720
to ask them, you know, are there is

3679
02:40:46,720 --> 02:40:48,160
there a stack we could put in the

3680
02:40:48,160 --> 02:40:51,200
library? Uh which would be a little bit

3681
02:40:51,200 --> 02:40:53,600
odd since they had their own show at one

3682
02:40:53,600 --> 02:40:55,120
point, but they really didn't make a lot

3683
02:40:55,120 --> 02:40:57,680
of it. They didn't tie it into a

3684
02:40:57,680 --> 02:40:59,520
lecture, which we could do. We could

3685
02:40:59,520 --> 02:41:00,720
have a lecture right here in the

3686
02:41:00,720 --> 02:41:01,680
community room.

3687
02:41:01,680 --> 02:41:02,080
>> Yeah.

3688
02:41:02,080 --> 02:41:04,800
>> If we wanted to. Um we could have Will

3689
02:41:04,800 --> 02:41:06,800
maybe I've already asked Will to do

3690
02:41:06,800 --> 02:41:08,640
something in Pennsylvania. He hasn't

3691
02:41:08,640 --> 02:41:12,000
acted overly enthused, but um you know

3692
02:41:12,000 --> 02:41:15,760
that's a possibility. And then um

3693
02:41:15,760 --> 02:41:18,399
there's a film uh that was shown at

3694
02:41:18,399 --> 02:41:21,840
Morvin a couple of years ago um of the

3695
02:41:21,840 --> 02:41:23,840
African-American community and how they

3696
02:41:23,840 --> 02:41:26,720
gathered around and learn more about the

3697
02:41:26,720 --> 02:41:28,720
participation of that community in the

3698
02:41:28,720 --> 02:41:31,920
battle or in in Princeton life. And we

3699
02:41:31,920 --> 02:41:34,640
could show that film at some point. I

3700
02:41:34,640 --> 02:41:36,479
think that might be a nice thing to do.

3701
02:41:36,479 --> 02:41:38,960
So, you know, we can use it as a

3702
02:41:38,960 --> 02:41:41,520
programming focus and do other things

3703
02:41:41,520 --> 02:41:43,200
around it, but we have that's the stuff

3704
02:41:43,200 --> 02:41:45,120
we have to discuss with the mayor and

3705
02:41:45,120 --> 02:41:47,040
the building maintenance because I don't

3706
02:41:47,040 --> 02:41:49,439
know how they handle uh opening the

3707
02:41:49,439 --> 02:41:51,600
building when it's not usually open and

3708
02:41:51,600 --> 02:41:53,200
you know, all those kinds of little

3709
02:41:53,200 --> 02:41:55,040
things have to be figured out. But, we

3710
02:41:55,040 --> 02:41:56,240
have plenty of time.

3711
02:41:56,240 --> 02:41:58,240
>> Yeah. So, maybe to wrap it up, what we

3712
02:41:58,240 --> 02:41:59,760
could do is the uh

3713
02:41:59,760 --> 02:42:01,359
>> I think Leighton had something to add

3714
02:42:01,359 --> 02:42:01,840
real quick.

3715
02:42:01,840 --> 02:42:03,920
>> Oh, sorry.

3716
02:42:03,920 --> 02:42:05,280
Yeah, Leighton, have you got some

3717
02:42:05,280 --> 02:42:06,399
comments?

3718
02:42:06,399 --> 02:42:09,920
>> Yeah, I I've got some comments. Yeah, I

3719
02:42:09,920 --> 02:42:11,600
think Kip, this is a great idea,

3720
02:42:11,600 --> 02:42:14,800
especially the marker. Uh, you mentioned

3721
02:42:14,800 --> 02:42:20,240
that this exhibit has been shown and was at the library. I think you also

3722
02:42:20,240 --> 02:42:24,880
said you didn't uh rank high where they

3723
02:42:24,880 --> 02:42:27,040
placed it at and how much attention they

3724
02:42:27,040 --> 02:42:31,439
paid to it. But um I I think before we

3725
02:42:31,439 --> 02:42:35,359
get too far down the road with a re uh

3726
02:42:35,359 --> 02:42:37,840
establishing and re another exhibit

3727
02:42:37,840 --> 02:42:39,920
bringing it back, I think that's

3728
02:42:39,920 --> 02:42:41,520
something that that really should come

3729
02:42:41,520 --> 02:42:45,120
before uh mayor and council.

3730
02:42:45,120 --> 02:42:46,240
>> I would be glad to give them a

3731
02:42:46,240 --> 02:42:49,840
presentation. Um again, I don't think

3732
02:42:49,840 --> 02:42:51,439
they've been overly enthused about the

3733
02:42:51,439 --> 02:42:54,479
250th. I understand that Michelle now is

3734
02:42:54,479 --> 02:42:56,080
coordinating that, which I didn't know

3735
02:42:56,080 --> 02:43:00,160
about before. So, um

3736
02:43:00,160 --> 02:43:04,880
you know, I certainly will do that and I need the um cooperation of the

3737
02:43:04,880 --> 02:43:07,439
building um maintenance person,

3738
02:43:07,439 --> 02:43:09,600
whoever's in charge of this building,

3739
02:43:09,600 --> 02:43:13,040
you know, to work with them on that. So,

3740
02:43:13,040 --> 02:43:14,399
>> well, those are all things

3741
02:43:14,399 --> 02:43:16,640
>> I think one one of the points is is

3742
02:43:16,640 --> 02:43:18,960
that, you know, we have like you

3743
02:43:18,960 --> 02:43:21,120
mentioned Morvin, we just had a

3744
02:43:21,120 --> 02:43:23,680
presentation from Princeton Battlefield,

3745
02:43:23,680 --> 02:43:24,080
>> right?

3746
02:43:24,080 --> 02:43:27,200
>> The library showed the exhibit. I think

3747
02:43:27,200 --> 02:43:29,200
the real question is is is it the

3748
02:43:29,200 --> 02:43:32,000
municipality's responsibility to really

3749
02:43:32,000 --> 02:43:36,000
lean into the 250th more than what we've

3750
02:43:36,000 --> 02:43:38,640
already done? And then I I'll just go a

3751
02:43:38,640 --> 02:43:40,880
little bit further and say this for

3752
02:43:40,880 --> 02:43:43,200
African-Americans.

3753
02:43:43,200 --> 02:43:48,240
Uh we know the uh importance of

3754
02:43:48,240 --> 02:43:50,160
African-Americans and Native American

3755
02:43:50,160 --> 02:43:53,200
Indians who fought in the revolution in

3756
02:43:53,200 --> 02:43:56,479
the war right here in Princeton. But we

3757
02:43:56,479 --> 02:43:59,359
just heard from four gentlemen who sat

3758
02:43:59,359 --> 02:44:02,160
up here for almost an hour said nothing

3759
02:44:02,160 --> 02:44:03,520
about African-Americans.

3760
02:44:03,520 --> 02:44:03,920
>> Right.

3761
02:44:03,920 --> 02:44:09,200
>> I'm glad you did mention it. But from my personal perspective and what I

3762
02:44:09,200 --> 02:44:13,920
know is that right now the 250th

3763
02:44:13,920 --> 02:44:17,200
like I think back to what is a slave uh

3764
02:44:17,200 --> 02:44:19,840
what you know what to the slave is the

3765
02:44:19,840 --> 02:44:21,760
4th of July. The frame is Frederick

3766
02:44:21,760 --> 02:44:24,160
Douglas speech. And right now most

3767
02:44:24,160 --> 02:44:26,080
people of color are not feeling very

3768
02:44:26,080 --> 02:44:29,120
happy about where we are 250 years

3769
02:44:29,120 --> 02:44:29,680
later.

3770
02:44:29,680 --> 02:44:30,319
>> I know.

3771
02:44:30,319 --> 02:44:33,040
>> So, you know, you want to give that some

3772
02:44:33,040 --> 02:44:34,960
thought, but but I would, you know,

3773
02:44:34,960 --> 02:44:36,800
invite you to come before mayor and

3774
02:44:36,800 --> 02:44:40,479
counsel and and present rather than be

3775
02:44:40,479 --> 02:44:43,120
here and making the assumption that we

3776
02:44:43,120 --> 02:44:45,760
are ready and willing and able and

3777
02:44:45,760 --> 02:44:49,279
really excited about the exhibit.

3778
02:44:49,279 --> 02:44:51,920
>> Yeah, I'll do that. And um you know I

3779
02:44:51,920 --> 02:44:54,720
think tying it in with a marker also is

3780
02:44:54,720 --> 02:44:57,120
another thing that's nice for the

3781
02:44:57,120 --> 02:44:59,680
community. As people drive in on Quaker

3782
02:44:59,680 --> 02:45:02,240
Road, they will see that sign. Many

3783
02:45:02,240 --> 02:45:04,399
people uh who don't really know where

3784
02:45:04,399 --> 02:45:06,080
the battlefield is, don't know what

3785
02:45:06,080 --> 02:45:10,479
happened there. And uh you know it's an evolving community. We have new

3786
02:45:10,479 --> 02:45:12,479
people moving in move people moving out.

3787
02:45:12,479 --> 02:45:14,720
There's you know always an evolution.

3788
02:45:14,720 --> 02:45:17,520
the kids in school are interested at

3789
02:45:17,520 --> 02:45:19,439
certain times and then not so much other

3790
02:45:19,439 --> 02:45:22,000
times. I think fourth grade is when we

3791
02:45:22,000 --> 02:45:24,960
got um our history lessons about New

3792
02:45:24,960 --> 02:45:27,600
Jersey history. So, I mean, I'll have to

3793
02:45:27,600 --> 02:45:29,279
coordinate with the school system and

3794
02:45:29,279 --> 02:45:31,840
see what they want to do.

3795
02:45:31,840 --> 02:45:34,479
So, um I I think it's a possibility of

3796
02:45:34,479 --> 02:45:37,359
getting some excitement about this going

3797
02:45:37,359 --> 02:45:39,120
and but I agree with you. I think that

3798
02:45:39,120 --> 02:45:40,560
we're all kind of down in the dumps

3799
02:45:40,560 --> 02:45:43,520
right now and and worried. Um maybe

3800
02:45:43,520 --> 02:45:45,600
after the the November election we'll

3801
02:45:45,600 --> 02:45:48,960
feel a little better. I hope. And uh and

3802
02:45:48,960 --> 02:45:50,720
then you know we'll we'll keep going

3803
02:45:50,720 --> 02:45:56,950
because we have to

3804
02:45:56,960 --> 02:46:01,680
» Sarah does this present do we are we

3805
02:46:01,680 --> 02:46:04,479
required to to do a vote on the um on

3806
02:46:04,479 --> 02:46:06,960
the what what is we need to be doing

3807
02:46:06,960 --> 02:46:08,800
business-wise? what we're trying to

3808
02:46:08,800 --> 02:46:09,920
figure out up here.

3809
02:46:09,920 --> 02:46:14,000
>> I don't think this was like a formal

3810
02:46:14,000 --> 02:46:15,600
application to my knowledge. I think

3811
02:46:15,600 --> 02:46:19,040
what KIP is looking for is

3812
02:46:19,040 --> 02:46:21,040
I guess an informal vote in our feedback

3813
02:46:21,040 --> 02:46:25,359
if we if the HBC approves this text.

3814
02:46:25,359 --> 02:46:26,800
I don't think it needs to be like a roll

3815
02:46:26,800 --> 02:46:27,840
call vote.

3816
02:46:27,840 --> 02:46:30,080
>> Okay. So, we can say that um the

3817
02:46:30,080 --> 02:46:32,479
consensus was if I'm speaking for

3818
02:46:32,479 --> 02:46:34,720
everybody that we we like the text the

3819
02:46:34,720 --> 02:46:35,439
way it is. We

3820
02:46:35,439 --> 02:46:37,120
>> Yeah. Can we vote on that? because then

3821
02:46:37,120 --> 02:46:39,520
I can tell the state, well, HBC voted on

3822
02:46:39,520 --> 02:46:40,160
it.

3823
02:46:40,160 --> 02:46:40,720
>> All right.

3824
02:46:40,720 --> 02:46:41,120
>> Okay.

3825
02:46:41,120 --> 02:46:44,160
>> Then if you need that, um,

3826
02:46:44,160 --> 02:46:47,040
>> I move that we approve the text as

3827
02:46:47,040 --> 02:46:49,439
written.

3828
02:46:49,439 --> 02:46:50,000
>> Thank you.

3829
02:46:50,000 --> 02:46:50,800
>> Second.

3830
02:46:50,800 --> 02:46:53,520
>> All in favor?

3831
02:46:53,520 --> 02:46:54,640
>> Did [clears throat] you hear me?

3832
02:46:54,640 --> 02:46:56,160
>> Yes.

3833
02:46:56,160 --> 02:46:58,880
I also want to say when I told you

3834
02:46:58,880 --> 02:47:02,080
that how how much of an advocate um Kip

3835
02:47:02,080 --> 02:47:04,160
is, I didn't know she was there. Now you

3836
02:47:04,160 --> 02:47:06,800
hear she is. and she also was one of the

3837
02:47:06,800 --> 02:47:10,080
persons who met um to make this a 20th

3838
02:47:10,080 --> 02:47:11,600
historic district. So, thank you very

3839
02:47:11,600 --> 02:47:14,560
much for that, Kip. Also, I work with um

3840
02:47:14,560 --> 02:47:18,240
the committees for Morvin Museum and

3841
02:47:18,240 --> 02:47:21,200
also the cemetery. I'm on the uh board

3842
02:47:21,200 --> 02:47:24,000
of the cemetery of Nassau Presbyterian

3843
02:47:24,000 --> 02:47:26,880
Church and I always give the history of

3844
02:47:26,880 --> 02:47:29,439
African-Americans and Native Americans

3845
02:47:29,439 --> 02:47:32,479
and we do talk about the uh slaves and

3846
02:47:32,479 --> 02:47:34,800
those who worked for the um

3847
02:47:34,800 --> 02:47:39,349
Revolutionary War.

3848
02:47:39,359 --> 02:47:40,080
» That's it.

3849
02:47:40,080 --> 02:47:41,840
>> Thank you, Shirley.

3850
02:47:41,840 --> 02:47:44,399
>> Thanks, Shirley. So, is this a All in

3851
02:47:44,399 --> 02:47:46,560
favor say I or is this a roll call?

3852
02:47:46,560 --> 02:47:48,640
>> I just All in favor say I.

3853
02:47:48,640 --> 02:47:50,000
>> All in favor?

3854
02:47:50,000 --> 02:47:50,479
I

3855
02:47:50,479 --> 02:47:51,359
>> I

3856
02:47:51,359 --> 02:47:52,800
>> opposed.

3857
02:47:52,800 --> 02:47:55,200
>> I

3858
02:47:55,200 --> 02:47:57,120
>> Thank you. Thank you.

3859
02:47:57,120 --> 02:47:59,279
>> And may I also thank say thank you to

3860
02:47:59,279 --> 02:48:02,000
the council. I'm not the council, the

3861
02:48:02,000 --> 02:48:03,840
historic preservation commission because

3862
02:48:03,840 --> 02:48:05,359
when I brought this up about this being

3863
02:48:05,359 --> 02:48:07,920
the 20th historic district, you gave us

3864
02:48:07,920 --> 02:48:09,920
so much

3865
02:48:09,920 --> 02:48:12,319
backbone and I want to thank those of

3866
02:48:12,319 --> 02:48:14,720
you who were on the count on the pres.

3867
02:48:14,720 --> 02:48:18,240
Oh god, I can't. This is part of my s

3868
02:48:18,240 --> 02:48:21,040
all of you who were on the commission

3869
02:48:21,040 --> 02:48:23,200
who helped make this the 20th historic

3870
02:48:23,200 --> 02:48:25,279
district. I want to thank you also.

3871
02:48:25,279 --> 02:48:26,479
>> Our pleasure.

3872
02:48:26,479 --> 02:48:29,040
>> Thank you, Shirley.

3873
02:48:29,040 --> 02:48:30,560
>> Thank you for understanding why I can't

3874
02:48:30,560 --> 02:48:32,399
talk. [laughter]

3875
02:48:32,399 --> 02:48:35,590
>> Thank you. [clears throat]

3876
02:48:35,600 --> 02:48:39,429
» All right. Um,

3877
02:48:39,439 --> 02:48:41,439
» I lost it.

3878
02:48:41,439 --> 02:48:45,120
>> Staff report. Anything more to report?

3879
02:48:45,120 --> 02:48:46,240
Motion to adjurnn.

3880
02:48:46,240 --> 02:48:48,720
>> I move to adjurnn.

3881
02:48:48,720 --> 02:48:50,000
>> Second.

3882
02:48:50,000 --> 02:48:51,279
>> All in favor?

3883
02:48:51,279 --> 02:48:53,520
>> Yes.

3884
02:48:53,520 --> 02:48:55,840
>> All right.

3885
02:48:55,840 --> 02:48:58,240
We are journed.

3886
02:48:58,240 --> 02:49:00,160
>> Thank you, Shirley. You're a trooper.

3887
02:49:00,160 --> 02:49:01,359
Welcome back.

3888
02:49:01,359 --> 02:49:03,760
>> And thank you all and thank you for

3889
02:49:03,760 --> 02:49:07,880
being with me through this journey.