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Join me in the pledge allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America.

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And to the Republic for which it stands.

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One nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.

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The Goffstown Zoning Board

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is an elected board

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of five members and up to five alternates
appointed by the Zoning Board.

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Currently, the board has five elected
members and four alternates.

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If anyone is interested
in serving on the CBA, please

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contact the Planning Zoning Office at Town
Hall for more information.

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The board has a posted agenda
for each meeting and tends

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to follow the items in order.

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The board will open the public

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hearing on an application
to receive testimony from applicants,

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butters, and affected parties,
and ask questions about the appeal.

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The public hearing will then be closed,
and the board will enter

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into a deliberative session
to discuss the merits of the appeal.

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For each application,
the board will decide to approve,

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approve with conditions, deny or continue
the public hearing to a later meeting.

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You are welcome to watch the deliberations
this evening.

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Or you can call the zoning department
at (600) 349-7899 zero, extension 815.

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To get the results for an applicant's
request to be approved,

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there must be an affirmative vote
of at least three members.

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An applicant can request a continuance
if there is not a full five member board

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to act on an application.

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Tonight we do have a full board.

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If you, the applicant and a butter
or any party to the action are aggrieved

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by a decision made by the CBA tonight,
you have the right to appeal

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to the Superior Court or the New Hampshire
Housing Appeals Board.

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However, before appealing,
you must request you must request

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a rehearing with this board
to preserve your right to appeal.

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Rehearing request must be filed
within 30 days of the decision,

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and state all reasons why the decision
was unlawful or unreasonable.

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Failure to request a rehearing
may forfeit your ability to appeal.

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And now we'll go through and do board
introductions.

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Jack.

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Jack.

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Sheppard, buildings
code Enforcement and zone..

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John Belville, member.

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Kristen Dawes, alternate.

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Jason Cody, vice chair.

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Davis Allen, alternate.

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Bruce Buttrick member.

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Charlie Farley, alternate.

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Leonard Stewart member.

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Joanne Duffy, planning and economic
development director.

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Thank you everybody.

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We'll start.

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Let's see.

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Put the agenda somewhere.

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And put mine so you can see it as well.

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Thank you.

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You don't have the right.

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So we'll go through
and do the August 4th, 2020 six minutes.

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Do we have any corrections or emotions?

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Yeah.

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I never said
the hardship is the ordinance,

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not the physical condition
of the property.

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This should be deleted.

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Okay.

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That's really clear.

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That's not what it was. Okay.

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So please, please note that in the record
to have that corrected.

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What page was that on.

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Page five of nine.

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The ordinance cannot be the hardship.

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Anyone else?

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Motion to make a motion as amended.

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Motion from Bruce.

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Second. Second. By Mr. Belliveau.

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All those in favor? All right.

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Oh. I'm sorry,
I have to appoint an alternate.

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Kristen,
you can vote on the minutes, please.

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All those in favor?

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I opposed one abstention.

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Motion carries.

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All right.

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First up on the docket, Beth Gage.

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Applicant is appealing
an administrative decision

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from the code enforcement officer
that an existing approval.

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I'm sorry.

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An existing approved preschool,
kindergarten group, child care center,

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infant and toddler care and school age
facility

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doesn't need an additional approval
or a conditional use permit from the

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Goffstown Planning Board
to allow for a summer camp program

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as part of the approved child
care center facility.

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The applicant is appealing
the decision under sections 1.2.2,

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1.3.7, 3.2.3

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and 15.4 of the Goffstown
Zoning Ordinance.

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The property, known as the Gage Farm
Schoolhouse, is located at 215 Wallace

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Road Map five,
lot 73, owned by 215 Wallace Road LLC.

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Zoned agricultural.

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And if those applicants are here,
you can come on up.

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Please just let us know who you
are and your address, please.

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For someone who started out with.

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I'm 205 Wallace Road.

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I've lived there for almost 39 years.

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The I.

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The whole thing started by.

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If I have the right

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planning board,
granted a conditional use permit in 2020

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to the previous owners
before the Roberta's purchased it,

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it was granted for group child daycare,

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which is up to five school age children.

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I'm not arguing anything, except

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the school's gotten more intense and use.

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They've got a lot
more school age programs,

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and they haven't been approved
for only up to five school age kids.

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I just feel that they should go to
the planning board to have it revisited.

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For the additional use of the property.

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They can evaluate
whether they want to approve it or not.

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They can

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look at the site plan and see if it's it's

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adequate for what they're doing now
because it's just more intense.

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And and I know for me it affects me.

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It's a lot louder.

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I couldn't do I couldn't say anything
if it was just just a daycare.

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It's approved and I understand that.

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But where they've opened the door
to a lot older kids,

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that that's
why I'm here, because I used to like

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just I could enjoy my yard.

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And now it's like all summer long,
there's kids outside screaming

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all day long and I can't use
my windows are shut.

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My just it's it's different.

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It's intense. It's more of a business.

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And you know,
the only thing I can really say is that

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there's like a lot more older kids,
which it wasn't approved for.

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So I think you should just go

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to the planning board again
to have them revisit it.

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Okay. All right. So you are

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right.

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This is not the way that I read this.

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So that's very interesting.

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But well I mean it. Has been approved.

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It it is true for school age kids but.

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Up to five school age kids.

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So you know it can't argue that.

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But more intense they they were
the property

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was granted a conditional use permit
for a group child day care center.

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There was no amount of kids
that was limited to

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I was naive, I've I've lived
next to the school that was there before.

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For what?

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I don't know, 20 years.

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And it was fine.

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I, I saw the kids playing.

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It was outside where they were playing.

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It's completely different.

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So I was naive to what it could turn into.

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But the only thing I can, you know,
address right now is the age of the kids.

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So if they were to go back to five
or less school age

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kids, there's really nothing I could say.

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But the way things are now,
I think it should be revisited

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to the planning board because a day it's
a day camp right now at the summer summer

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camps get school aged kids so it doesn't
fall under group child daycare.

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And that's a specific conditional
use permit

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that the planning board
is authorized to approve.

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Okay.

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22 so

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I'm going to open up the public hearing.

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I'm going to start with
Joanne is representing the town.

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Sure. Hi.

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For those of you who don't know me
and for the record, I'm Joanne.

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Excuse me, I'm Joanne Duffy.

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I'm the planning and economic development
director for the town.

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I've been involved with this

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probably from when Beth started to.

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2025.

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So I've kind of been in and out of it
for just over a year.

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So I've been sent here
to represent the town on this issue.

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So to start out with in 20,

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I can't even talk 2020.

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November of 2020, we had a request
that came to the planning board.

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There were four people involved,
two owners

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and two who wanted to open up
a group childcare center.

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And they came to the planning board
and they asked for a waiver of site

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plan approval.

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Because we had the site plan
from New Morning School.

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It was a 1986 site plan,
but it was still basically

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very, very similar
to what these people wanted to do.

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The only changes that they made was
there were some red line versions.

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You'll notice

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there were two copies in the packet
that was left on the table tonight.

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One was the original 1986
and the red line was from 2020.

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They presented that to the Planning Board.

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In the Planning Board,

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they had

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asked the Planning Board to waive
an engineered site plan in place of

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this site plan that they were presenting
with the red lines on it.

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The planning board approved that,
and at the same time they were asking

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for permission
for a group child care center,

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which in zoning ordinance requires

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in the agricultural district anyway,
it requires a conditional use permit.

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And that was also granted.

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They they started doing their homework
and started looking into the building

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more and found out
that what they really wanted to do

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was to expensive,
and they never went forward with it.

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They never applied to the state
for their license or anything.

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A few months later, we were then
approached by another applicant

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who was the current owner,
and that was in 2021, and they were asking

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for a preschool kindergarten, similar
to a new morning school.

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Who who were the original owners back
started in the 70s, I believe.

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Now kindergartens

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are permitted use in our zoning ordinance,

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so they didn't need a conditional use
permit to do a kindergarten.

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And that's, that's,
you know, written in our ordinance itself.

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So the

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the things that they were looking at
was the same red line

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versions that were shown to us in 2020.

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They had agreed that they wanted
to do the same.

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The original playground,
when it was new morning school,

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the original playground was towards
the road.

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There was a small like

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I forget what those fences are called,
but like a split rail fence.

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And then the playground was right there.

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And these kids that are out
there are like three, 4 or 5 years old.

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So they decided it was safer to

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move the children in the back
and have their play area back there.

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So they made some slight changes
like that,

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but it was in accordance
with the red lines version that was shown.

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And so we heard
we met with them at a technical review

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committee meeting with
staff, excuse me and staff.

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We all

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agreed that it wasn't a change
compared to what the planning board

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had previously approved
just a few months earlier,

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and that they didn't

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need to go back to the planning board
because it was typically the same thing.

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The only thing they did not need
was the conditional use permit,

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so they were not sent back
to the planning board at that point.

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Can I interrupt.

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They can I?

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Can you.

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Hold on? You'll be able. To.

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Respond back.

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Because I'll lose my train of thought.

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So under the New Hampshire
Health and Human Services, there are eight

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categories of child care programs
that they licensed through the state.

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There's a family child care home.

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There's a family group, child care home.

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There's a group child care center.

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There's an infant toddler program.

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There's a preschool program.

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There's a school age program.

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There's a night care program.

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And the last one is a residential care
residential child care program.

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The Gage School
has four out of those eight,

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they have a group childcare,
the infant toddler program,

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the preschool program,
and the school age program.

248
00:13:36,515 --> 00:13:39,852
Our ordinance does not break down

249
00:13:39,985 --> 00:13:43,255
all of these uses, even though you'll find

250
00:13:43,322 --> 00:13:46,992
I'm not sure about the night care
or the residential child care.

251
00:13:47,026 --> 00:13:50,029
Not familiar with those,
but the rest of them.

252
00:13:50,229 --> 00:13:52,865
We allow these uses in our town.

253
00:13:52,865 --> 00:13:55,868
It might not say
the same exact language in our ordinance,

254
00:13:55,868 --> 00:13:59,371
but they're similar in in uses

255
00:13:59,438 --> 00:14:03,042
like we don't have anything in there
that says school age program.

256
00:14:03,075 --> 00:14:06,912
Yet there are many childcare agencies
in this town that have school

257
00:14:06,912 --> 00:14:10,749
age programs,
preschool programs, things like that.

258
00:14:10,749 --> 00:14:16,455
So most of the time when someone comes
in, it falls under one of the others.

259
00:14:16,455 --> 00:14:18,157
But it's not.

260
00:14:18,157 --> 00:14:20,693
It's the ordinance itself needs work.

261
00:14:20,693 --> 00:14:22,494
It's not very specific.

262
00:14:23,863 --> 00:14:26,832
So when

263
00:14:26,832 --> 00:14:30,870
but what we do provide is
when someone comes forward

264
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:32,338
and they have to go

265
00:14:32,338 --> 00:14:36,075
after they meet with us, they go to
the state for their license approval.

266
00:14:36,108 --> 00:14:40,546
There is a zoning verification form
that needs to be approved and signed off

267
00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:43,616
by either the zoning person in town, or

268
00:14:44,350 --> 00:14:47,853
in one particular
one that we passed in your packet.

269
00:14:48,254 --> 00:14:49,955
I believe you have copies of it.

270
00:14:49,955 --> 00:14:51,123
There's two different ones.

271
00:14:51,123 --> 00:14:55,594
One is from 2021
and the other one is from 2024.

272
00:14:55,628 --> 00:14:57,696
One was signed by the town administrator.

273
00:14:57,696 --> 00:15:02,134
I think he was filling in at the time
because we didn't have a zoning person,

274
00:15:02,134 --> 00:15:07,439
but there's a section on there
that says any conditions.

275
00:15:07,506 --> 00:15:10,943
And the way it was explained to us

276
00:15:10,943 --> 00:15:16,882
through email from the state was that
if you had an issue where you didn't

277
00:15:16,882 --> 00:15:21,520
want to allow someone
to do a specific thing like a camp or

278
00:15:22,321 --> 00:15:26,258
a summer camp or after school care
or something like that,

279
00:15:26,258 --> 00:15:31,931
then you would write it in that section
in the state, would not allow them to

280
00:15:32,898 --> 00:15:35,634
receive that type of a license,

281
00:15:35,634 --> 00:15:38,637
but when they are approved by the town
to be

282
00:15:38,637 --> 00:15:41,674
there as a child care facility

283
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:45,911
and you don't have any restrictions
on there, then they can go and apply

284
00:15:45,945 --> 00:15:48,914
for any of those licenses
that I just read off to you.

285
00:15:48,914 --> 00:15:50,149
And this is what they did.

286
00:15:50,149 --> 00:15:53,152
And they applied for four of them.

287
00:15:53,152 --> 00:15:58,090
So the number of students
also comes into play on that form.

288
00:15:58,223 --> 00:16:02,227
You typically
you would have the first instance

289
00:16:02,227 --> 00:16:06,699
when the zoning officer signed off,
she had put to be determined

290
00:16:06,699 --> 00:16:10,202
by the fire department
because it's all based on square footage.

291
00:16:11,236 --> 00:16:14,840
That was the first time that when they
first opened, the second time, once

292
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,878
they were already established, the town
administrator knew the number and put 65.

293
00:16:19,878 --> 00:16:23,349
And that's the number
that's still in effect today. So

294
00:16:24,583 --> 00:16:27,419
so that's
the type of things that go on that form.

295
00:16:27,419 --> 00:16:31,457
And I'm not familiar with
how the state works with this process.

296
00:16:31,457 --> 00:16:36,595
I don't know if they ask for this
zoning verification every so many years

297
00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:39,832
when the license is about to be due.

298
00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:41,633
I don't know how that works.

299
00:16:41,633 --> 00:16:45,571
That's out of my ballpark,
but but I have found only

300
00:16:45,571 --> 00:16:50,376
two of them in the file, and that's all
we have so far for that particular school.

301
00:16:51,343 --> 00:16:55,080
I have photographs that we took.

302
00:16:55,914 --> 00:16:58,917
I think they were actually taken online.

303
00:16:59,218 --> 00:17:03,989
We didn't physically go out there
and take them, but I can pass them around

304
00:17:03,989 --> 00:17:10,596
and you'll see that
there is a very large treed buffer

305
00:17:11,063 --> 00:17:13,866
between the two parcels.

306
00:17:13,866 --> 00:17:17,069
This is the school area over here.

307
00:17:17,102 --> 00:17:19,505
And this is Mrs.

308
00:17:19,505 --> 00:17:21,340
Home over here on this side.

309
00:17:21,340 --> 00:17:24,343
But I'll just pass this around
and you can take a look at them.

310
00:17:24,476 --> 00:17:28,781
So there's it's quite a dense treed area

311
00:17:28,781 --> 00:17:32,818
which should help
with some some of the noise.

312
00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:39,291
The next thing is in night in,

313
00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:44,263
in. Let me just catch my.

314
00:17:44,363 --> 00:17:50,269
Oh, and one thing I failed to say
when the first people came in in 2020,

315
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:55,107
they called themselves
a group child daycare center.

316
00:17:55,107 --> 00:17:59,578
However, at the time that they asked
for a waiver of the engineered plans

317
00:17:59,578 --> 00:18:03,415
and the conditional use permit
in their application, they also said that

318
00:18:03,415 --> 00:18:06,518
they were going to be doing
after school care.

319
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,622
And it would be open from 6:30 a.m.

320
00:18:10,622 --> 00:18:11,790
to 6 p.m.

321
00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:15,461
so if they had gone forward,
they would have been doing the same thing.

322
00:18:15,461 --> 00:18:19,198
We just never saw that happen
because they never went forward.

323
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,339
The. Specific sections
of the zoning ordinance

324
00:18:27,506 --> 00:18:30,909
that the applicant mentioned is,

325
00:18:32,611 --> 00:18:35,347
was listed on her application.

326
00:18:35,347 --> 00:18:38,350
And the

327
00:18:38,784 --> 00:18:41,787
the items seem to be very vague.

328
00:18:42,354 --> 00:18:47,659
The first one has to do with relationship
to other laws, ordinances, regulations.

329
00:18:47,659 --> 00:18:50,696
Whenever one provision
is stricter than the other,

330
00:18:50,696 --> 00:18:54,199
you always go towards
the more restrictive one.

331
00:18:54,299 --> 00:18:57,636
The second one is to conserve conserve
property values

332
00:18:57,636 --> 00:19:01,874
by preventing harmful encroachment
of incompatible uses.

333
00:19:02,074 --> 00:19:03,342
Or, as I stated before,

334
00:19:03,342 --> 00:19:06,979
kindergarten is a permitted use
in the agricultural district.

335
00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:11,517
The third one is use is permitted
by conditional use permit.

336
00:19:11,517 --> 00:19:16,622
And I know that she had mentioned
in her text that she feels

337
00:19:16,622 --> 00:19:20,259
that this needs a conditional use permit,
but it's a kindergarten.

338
00:19:20,259 --> 00:19:24,596
So again, I don't mean to be repetitive,
but it doesn't require one.

339
00:19:25,597 --> 00:19:28,300
And then
the other one was that the planning board

340
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:32,137
shall have the authority to grant
conditional use permit, which is correct.

341
00:19:32,137 --> 00:19:34,706
But again
they don't need a conditional use permit.

342
00:19:34,706 --> 00:19:37,709
So I'm not really sure

343
00:19:37,709 --> 00:19:42,214
what the actual appeal is all about.

344
00:19:43,982 --> 00:19:48,654
The I did receive a phone call
from someone who is in a butter,

345
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:49,354
not in a butter.

346
00:19:49,354 --> 00:19:52,257
I'm sorry,
who is a resident of on Ridgewood Avenue,

347
00:19:52,257 --> 00:19:55,260
and they were complaining to me
about traffic.

348
00:19:56,061 --> 00:19:58,664
And as most of you probably travel

349
00:19:58,664 --> 00:20:01,733
Wallace Road at some point in time,
it is a busy road.

350
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,102
It's been a busy road for years and years.

351
00:20:04,102 --> 00:20:10,108
It goes it goes from Goffstown to Bedford
and then further on as you continue

352
00:20:10,142 --> 00:20:14,913
through the Bedford area, it's
I think the name changes,

353
00:20:14,913 --> 00:20:17,616
but it still continues on to,
I think, Merrimack.

354
00:20:17,616 --> 00:20:20,719
It's a it's a road
that lots of people use,

355
00:20:20,752 --> 00:20:23,822
especially during rush hour
in the morning, in the evening.

356
00:20:24,356 --> 00:20:28,627
But it's the traffic is certainly not
coming from the school itself.

357
00:20:29,361 --> 00:20:32,397
When New Morning was there,
there were a lot of problems with parking,

358
00:20:32,397 --> 00:20:35,534
especially when they had
little graduation ceremonies

359
00:20:35,534 --> 00:20:39,738
and they had special events
and things like that.

360
00:20:39,738 --> 00:20:41,473
Come and meet the teacher type things.

361
00:20:41,473 --> 00:20:46,712
And the cars used to park on Wallace Road,
and it caused quite an issue.

362
00:20:46,712 --> 00:20:48,280
And there wasn't as much traffic back

363
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,350
then, just they
they've been closed now for years,

364
00:20:52,551 --> 00:20:54,786
but the the current owners

365
00:20:54,786 --> 00:20:59,491
have made provisions
for parking for special event types.

366
00:20:59,491 --> 00:21:02,861
They don't use it on a normal basis,
but only when they have special events

367
00:21:02,861 --> 00:21:03,996
and they park in the

368
00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:07,532
in the back of the property
so as not to disturb the neighbors.

369
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:11,336
And it's not to cause any confusion
out on Wallace with all of the traffic.

370
00:21:11,336 --> 00:21:15,741
So they've taken steps to try to alleviate
any problems with traffic.

371
00:21:16,241 --> 00:21:18,510
And traffic was not an appeal to you here.

372
00:21:18,510 --> 00:21:21,980
So I don't think the zoning board
should even really be discussing it.

373
00:21:23,482 --> 00:21:26,451
The applicant

374
00:21:26,985 --> 00:21:29,554
has said here and she just

375
00:21:29,554 --> 00:21:33,558
she has it in her text,
and she's also mentioned it before that,

376
00:21:33,659 --> 00:21:38,096
that the project is not approved
for more than five school age children.

377
00:21:38,196 --> 00:21:42,701
But if you read through,
I included a list in your packet

378
00:21:42,701 --> 00:21:47,439
of the different types of daycare centers
and the ones that I just read off to you.

379
00:21:47,472 --> 00:21:53,078
There's definitions for each one,
and in our ordinance it says group child

380
00:21:53,178 --> 00:21:56,615
daycare cannot have more
than five school age children,

381
00:21:56,615 --> 00:22:00,786
which means five after school care
or before school care.

382
00:22:00,786 --> 00:22:05,991
Children, typically the school age
children are up to age 12.

383
00:22:05,991 --> 00:22:10,462
And that that's that's fine,

384
00:22:10,495 --> 00:22:14,733
except that the license,
the state overrides that

385
00:22:14,733 --> 00:22:17,903
because the license itself allows for

386
00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:21,073
as many as you want

387
00:22:21,073 --> 00:22:24,876
up to your limitation of the 65
at any one time.

388
00:22:24,876 --> 00:22:27,412
So you can't have, you know,

389
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,215
100 kids there

390
00:22:30,215 --> 00:22:33,218
and say,
well, but those are only school age.

391
00:22:33,218 --> 00:22:35,821
You can only have the maximum
that's allowed.

392
00:22:35,821 --> 00:22:38,824
And I don't know if you can. Mix the ages.

393
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:42,761
Again, I don't know all of the rules
of the state, only the ones I looked into.

394
00:22:42,761 --> 00:22:46,064
So I don't know if they can be mixed ages
at the same time.

395
00:22:46,832 --> 00:22:49,401
I'm not sure about that, but the.

396
00:22:49,401 --> 00:22:52,471
But I do know that the state allows

397
00:22:52,637 --> 00:22:56,842
as many school age children as possible
as you need to

398
00:22:56,875 --> 00:22:59,878
with the restrictions
that you follow their rules.

399
00:22:59,878 --> 00:23:03,749
As far as no more than what you're allowed
at any one time,

400
00:23:03,749 --> 00:23:06,752
which in their case is 65.

401
00:23:07,786 --> 00:23:11,156
So so that doesn't apply here.

402
00:23:11,156 --> 00:23:14,159
And the decision.

403
00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:16,661
She also said the decision did not address

404
00:23:18,029 --> 00:23:18,897
something about

405
00:23:18,897 --> 00:23:22,467
needing a special exception,
which it didn't need a special exception.

406
00:23:22,467 --> 00:23:24,870
Maybe it was supposed to be conditional
use permit, but again,

407
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:27,873
it doesn't need a conditional use permit
either.

408
00:23:28,907 --> 00:23:30,909
So during

409
00:23:30,909 --> 00:23:36,281
2025, staff had received complaints
from Mrs.

410
00:23:36,281 --> 00:23:40,819
Plourde regarding noise from the children,
particularly the after school program,

411
00:23:40,819 --> 00:23:45,657
because these kids were older,
and she was of the opinion

412
00:23:45,657 --> 00:23:49,661
that the after school program
was not a permitted use,

413
00:23:50,262 --> 00:23:53,632
and that they didn't include plans
for an after school program

414
00:23:53,632 --> 00:23:55,667
in their application.

415
00:23:55,667 --> 00:23:58,437
Again, it

416
00:23:58,437 --> 00:24:02,140
our zoning ordinance does not have any.

417
00:24:02,274 --> 00:24:05,944
There's no mention
whatsoever of after school care

418
00:24:05,944 --> 00:24:07,779
except for those five children.

419
00:24:07,779 --> 00:24:11,850
So that didn't really come into play
when they went to apply

420
00:24:11,917 --> 00:24:14,219
for their license at the state,

421
00:24:14,219 --> 00:24:18,523
just as the first people from 2020
were planning to do the same thing.

422
00:24:20,225 --> 00:24:24,796
So. Let me just catch my here.

423
00:24:24,796 --> 00:24:27,799
She's.

424
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:30,669
So, so I think there's just confusion

425
00:24:30,669 --> 00:24:34,239
on how the state handles it
and how the town handles it.

426
00:24:34,239 --> 00:24:37,709
And the state pretty much overrides

427
00:24:37,709 --> 00:24:40,812
what the town does
because the state has certain rules.

428
00:24:40,879 --> 00:24:46,084
We and we write on their nose
after school children

429
00:24:46,084 --> 00:24:50,789
on the zoning verification form,
which this school has been in operation

430
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:54,426
now for six years,
and we have never done that.

431
00:24:54,426 --> 00:24:58,196
And I can't imagine the town
going in there now and telling them

432
00:24:58,196 --> 00:25:04,202
that you have to change your business plan
because your kids are too loud.

433
00:25:04,836 --> 00:25:06,905
The kids are only up to 12 years of age.

434
00:25:06,905 --> 00:25:09,908
It's not like there's teenagers there.

435
00:25:10,475 --> 00:25:12,110
So in

436
00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:17,215
on May 21st of 2026,
the town did receive a letter.

437
00:25:17,282 --> 00:25:18,750
I'm sorry. Let me back up a minute.

438
00:25:18,750 --> 00:25:23,188
So to to address the issues
with the summer camp because

439
00:25:23,221 --> 00:25:26,391
because that was also an issue
raised by Mrs.

440
00:25:26,391 --> 00:25:27,225
Plourde.

441
00:25:27,225 --> 00:25:32,497
The town administrator
did send a letter back and explained

442
00:25:32,497 --> 00:25:38,136
that he spoke with the department heads,
and he looked into some other complaints.

443
00:25:38,136 --> 00:25:43,308
There was a complaint about something
to do with the tent, and some problems

444
00:25:43,308 --> 00:25:47,045
with the fire department had a few issues
and after everything

445
00:25:47,212 --> 00:25:52,417
and Jack had to go out there a few times,
everything was wrapped up in everyone.

446
00:25:52,484 --> 00:25:56,521
All the departments were fine
and everyone said,

447
00:25:56,521 --> 00:25:59,057
and I have emails to this fact
that everyone said yes,

448
00:25:59,057 --> 00:26:01,326
they're in compliance,
that everyone's good.

449
00:26:01,326 --> 00:26:05,997
So that was in December of 2025.

450
00:26:06,231 --> 00:26:10,268
The following May of 2026,
the town received a letter

451
00:26:10,268 --> 00:26:13,471
from Attorney
Manning representing Miss Plourde

452
00:26:14,072 --> 00:26:18,710
concerning
alleged zoning code violations. And

453
00:26:19,644 --> 00:26:20,612
they said that

454
00:26:20,612 --> 00:26:23,615
issues that had been a concern.

455
00:26:23,715 --> 00:26:24,549
No. I'm sorry.

456
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:28,486
Then Jack sent a letter saying that
all of the issues that had been a concern

457
00:26:28,486 --> 00:26:29,487
with the various department

458
00:26:29,487 --> 00:26:33,925
heads had been addressed, and
there were no other outstanding issues.

459
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,029
When we sent the letter
back to the attorney,

460
00:26:38,196 --> 00:26:41,266
she she got in touch with us and said that

461
00:26:41,266 --> 00:26:44,469
she was no longer
representing the applicant.

462
00:26:44,469 --> 00:26:47,405
So we then sent a letter to Mrs.

463
00:26:47,405 --> 00:26:49,474
Plourde.

464
00:26:49,474 --> 00:26:51,876
The school is allowed to care.

465
00:26:51,876 --> 00:26:54,679
Now, this isn't my me saying this.

466
00:26:54,679 --> 00:26:55,480
This is the state.

467
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,483
I have emails from the state
and this is what they say.

468
00:26:58,583 --> 00:27:02,020
The school is allowed to care
for any number of school age children

469
00:27:02,020 --> 00:27:06,024
if they do not exceed
their licensing capacity of 65.

470
00:27:06,024 --> 00:27:10,595
These decisions are based on the life
safety inspection provided by the fire

471
00:27:10,595 --> 00:27:15,066
inspector and any restrictions
provided on the zoning approval form.

472
00:27:15,266 --> 00:27:19,237
And like I said before,
which there are no restrictions,

473
00:27:19,638 --> 00:27:24,409
child care licenses
may have the school age license type.

474
00:27:24,409 --> 00:27:27,879
In addition to the group child
care program,

475
00:27:27,879 --> 00:27:31,783
they are allowed to advertise and operate
a summer camp under the school age

476
00:27:31,783 --> 00:27:35,720
license type and are not required
to have separate approval for this.

477
00:27:37,022 --> 00:27:39,024
So it's

478
00:27:39,024 --> 00:27:43,028
pretty much everything that I've covered
and and looked at everything.

479
00:27:43,028 --> 00:27:47,532
So on behalf of the town and my office,
I am respectfully requesting

480
00:27:47,632 --> 00:27:49,167
that the Zoning Board of Adjustment

481
00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:53,004
find that this appeal has no merit
and deny this request.

482
00:27:53,304 --> 00:27:56,307
And I'll take any questions
if you have any.

483
00:27:56,941 --> 00:28:02,180
So let's start with the board first,
and then I'll come back to you.

484
00:28:02,180 --> 00:28:02,847
Okay.

485
00:28:02,847 --> 00:28:04,315
This is the questions that we're going

486
00:28:04,315 --> 00:28:07,318
to ask
are specifically what Joanne just said.

487
00:28:08,186 --> 00:28:11,222
So I want to make sure
we're not addressing this.

488
00:28:11,823 --> 00:28:14,059
Let's
take care of this set of parentheses.

489
00:28:14,059 --> 00:28:17,195
And then we'll we'll address bigger issue.

490
00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:23,668
But one of the things that confuses me
with this is this complaint

491
00:28:23,668 --> 00:28:26,671
seems to me to be more

492
00:28:26,671 --> 00:28:30,041
a matter of enforcement than zoning.

493
00:28:30,475 --> 00:28:33,478
And how can you direct

494
00:28:34,312 --> 00:28:40,418
against a summer camp program
when what you're really talking about

495
00:28:40,418 --> 00:28:48,126
is the licensing for the entire facility,
and whether they have

496
00:28:48,126 --> 00:28:51,830
the correct approvals
to operate that kind of right.

497
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:55,800
I'm unsure
how you can separate those two things out

498
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:59,070
summer camp versus their entire operation.

499
00:28:59,104 --> 00:29:00,705
Okay. Can I help you with that?

500
00:29:00,705 --> 00:29:02,941
So if their summer camp

501
00:29:02,941 --> 00:29:06,344
is part of their program,
it's considered part of their license.

502
00:29:07,178 --> 00:29:08,847
That's what we have.

503
00:29:08,847 --> 00:29:10,815
It's not a separate license.

504
00:29:12,484 --> 00:29:13,118
Understood.

505
00:29:13,118 --> 00:29:18,156
But that seems to me
to be the substance of the complaint.

506
00:29:18,189 --> 00:29:21,826
It was directed specifically against

507
00:29:22,193 --> 00:29:26,131
the facility
operating the summer camp program.

508
00:29:26,131 --> 00:29:30,101
I mean, one of the things
I would be interested in since Mrs.

509
00:29:30,101 --> 00:29:33,571
Florida's a longtime
neighbor of the property, is what

510
00:29:33,938 --> 00:29:39,911
the child census was
when the under its former name,

511
00:29:39,911 --> 00:29:43,848
it was in full operation
as a school in kindergarten.

512
00:29:44,115 --> 00:29:47,118
How many kids you had on site
at that point?

513
00:29:47,552 --> 00:29:50,555
They had they were licensed for 50,

514
00:29:51,556 --> 00:29:54,259
so it was 15.

515
00:29:54,259 --> 00:29:57,262
Higher than what the definition of group,

516
00:29:58,229 --> 00:29:58,997
family, group.

517
00:29:58,997 --> 00:30:01,032
But but. Again.

518
00:30:01,032 --> 00:30:04,002
Because they were
they fell under a kindergarten as well.

519
00:30:04,002 --> 00:30:05,804
Preschool. Kindergarten.

520
00:30:05,804 --> 00:30:08,807
The group child care and 5.6.4.

521
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:11,409
That's the only one
that's in the table. Yes.

522
00:30:11,409 --> 00:30:11,709
Yeah.

523
00:30:11,709 --> 00:30:14,379
So group
childcare as defined by New Hampshire

524
00:30:14,379 --> 00:30:18,082
RSA six seven for family and group
childcare programs,

525
00:30:18,082 --> 00:30:22,387
shall be allowed as an accessory
use to a primary residential use.

526
00:30:23,788 --> 00:30:24,989
It's for someone

527
00:30:24,989 --> 00:30:28,159
who has a home
who is taking care of children.

528
00:30:28,193 --> 00:30:29,828
There's two different.

529
00:30:29,828 --> 00:30:30,862
There's another. One.

530
00:30:30,862 --> 00:30:32,931
That is a family group.

531
00:30:32,931 --> 00:30:33,264
The other.

532
00:30:33,264 --> 00:30:34,399
One is the other one.

533
00:30:34,399 --> 00:30:37,068
That's the one reference, okay.

534
00:30:37,068 --> 00:30:42,740
But also the the allowed use
in the agricultural zone is kindergarten.

535
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:46,744
Elementary or secondary
school is a permitted use. Yes.

536
00:30:46,811 --> 00:30:49,781
And that was that was
kind of what I was going to bring up.

537
00:30:49,881 --> 00:30:52,483
I need to look at their license from.

538
00:30:52,483 --> 00:30:54,085
I'm sorry.

539
00:30:54,085 --> 00:30:54,786
Go ahead. Bruce.

540
00:30:54,786 --> 00:30:59,224
Mr. chair, I'd like to comment on
I think those owning board has the ability

541
00:31:00,692 --> 00:31:03,695
to look at it broader.

542
00:31:04,195 --> 00:31:07,198
There's been an appeal
of administrative decision,

543
00:31:08,166 --> 00:31:11,769
and we've been asked as a board
to act upon

544
00:31:11,769 --> 00:31:15,807
some elements that she's alleging
that's not correct.

545
00:31:15,807 --> 00:31:16,541
And she's appealing.

546
00:31:17,508 --> 00:31:18,343
However.

547
00:31:18,343 --> 00:31:21,346
RSA 674 colon 33

548
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,383
two allows a zoning board to make it

549
00:31:25,383 --> 00:31:29,988
as ought to be made, any decisions,
any appeals.

550
00:31:30,355 --> 00:31:33,491
So I think that opens up the board to say,
okay,

551
00:31:33,758 --> 00:31:38,730
let's look at it as a whole package
and see if there's any errors in this.

552
00:31:39,197 --> 00:31:40,431
I'm going to say application.

553
00:31:40,431 --> 00:31:43,434
But really in this property

554
00:31:44,636 --> 00:31:46,871
from a zoning standpoint.

555
00:31:46,871 --> 00:31:49,908
So I go back to more of a timeline

556
00:31:50,275 --> 00:31:55,980
issue or question
I was owning ordinance in the table

557
00:31:55,980 --> 00:32:00,251
says that it's a group child care
or family group child care.

558
00:32:00,952 --> 00:32:02,687
I believe it's permitted use.

559
00:32:02,687 --> 00:32:04,622
Just group. Child care group.

560
00:32:04,622 --> 00:32:06,024
So yeah. So okay.

561
00:32:06,024 --> 00:32:09,027
So our definition for group

562
00:32:09,794 --> 00:32:11,562
is that no more than five

563
00:32:11,562 --> 00:32:16,768
believe our town
definition group child daycare center

564
00:32:17,302 --> 00:32:20,772
provided for preschool children
up to five school age children.

565
00:32:21,472 --> 00:32:24,475
Okay, so it does nothing with numbers.

566
00:32:25,076 --> 00:32:30,081
It has an age criteria
that to me was referenced.

567
00:32:30,481 --> 00:32:31,649
I think it was morning.

568
00:32:31,649 --> 00:32:35,286
Morning, day school,
something way back going forward.

569
00:32:36,321 --> 00:32:38,156
Right.

570
00:32:38,156 --> 00:32:40,792
To me the town allowed

571
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:45,630
childcare up to five school age children.

572
00:32:46,664 --> 00:32:49,667
However, somewhere we're being told

573
00:32:50,768 --> 00:32:53,771
that in 2020
they went to the planning board.

574
00:32:54,005 --> 00:32:57,475
So they had the site plan approval
for the up to five school age

575
00:32:57,475 --> 00:33:00,478
children in 86.

576
00:33:00,678 --> 00:33:04,983
In 2020,
they asked the planning board for group

577
00:33:05,049 --> 00:33:09,387
childcare and I believe it was commented
also after school care.

578
00:33:10,989 --> 00:33:12,390
But that was a different person.

579
00:33:12,390 --> 00:33:13,491
That was not in. The morning.

580
00:33:13,491 --> 00:33:17,328
I'm going with you,
but an application came in.

581
00:33:17,428 --> 00:33:19,831
They went to the planning board
to say, look,

582
00:33:19,831 --> 00:33:22,433
obviously they were expanding
from the greater than five

583
00:33:22,433 --> 00:33:25,770
school aged children because they wanted
to do an after school care

584
00:33:26,204 --> 00:33:29,140
which has more school age children.

585
00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:34,145
So I'm trying to find that path,
and I believe that's factual.

586
00:33:34,212 --> 00:33:37,582
I'm not sure on that application in 2020.

587
00:33:38,316 --> 00:33:42,120
However,
that application of A14 was correct.

588
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:42,920
The first.

589
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,992
The. Application went forward, but
they never went forward with the business.

590
00:33:48,326 --> 00:33:53,564
So typically site plans
expire in two years.

591
00:33:53,564 --> 00:33:56,467
I think if you don't exercise
that approval.

592
00:33:56,467 --> 00:33:57,368
Correct.

593
00:33:58,369 --> 00:33:59,704
However, a new owner.

594
00:33:59,704 --> 00:34:01,005
Came in, a new owner came.

595
00:34:01,005 --> 00:34:05,043
Yes, exercised and approved site plan
within two years.

596
00:34:06,144 --> 00:34:08,046
So those approvals and the waivers

597
00:34:08,046 --> 00:34:11,649
that came with that from 20 in 2021

598
00:34:12,383 --> 00:34:16,521
goes forward
with all those approvals and the waivers.

599
00:34:17,121 --> 00:34:20,124
So I believe in 2021,

600
00:34:20,625 --> 00:34:23,628
they came into doing their group

601
00:34:23,628 --> 00:34:27,365
childcare with school age children,

602
00:34:29,167 --> 00:34:30,368
a number not received

603
00:34:30,368 --> 00:34:34,272
65, and there's no breakup
or a ratio of 6565 came

604
00:34:34,272 --> 00:34:37,275
from the fire department on the.

605
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:41,312
Documentation that I saw.

606
00:34:41,312 --> 00:34:44,315
And subsequently we've had some.

607
00:34:45,683 --> 00:34:47,585
In 2021 when they came in.

608
00:34:47,585 --> 00:34:50,922
The newest owners, current owners
go forward.

609
00:34:52,757 --> 00:34:55,059
I believe, rightly determined

610
00:34:55,059 --> 00:34:58,162
that there wasn't any change
from the approval in 2020.

611
00:34:58,830 --> 00:35:01,399
They were going to do

612
00:35:01,399 --> 00:35:02,600
what is the group?

613
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,903
Infant, preschool and school age?

614
00:35:07,872 --> 00:35:09,407
Even though we don't have

615
00:35:09,407 --> 00:35:13,511
a defined use of that
in our zoning ordinance.

616
00:35:14,545 --> 00:35:15,346
Right.

617
00:35:15,346 --> 00:35:18,749
We don't break it down
as specific as the state does.

618
00:35:19,317 --> 00:35:22,320
So they kind of approved it

619
00:35:23,154 --> 00:35:25,022
even though it doesn't
show up in the table

620
00:35:25,022 --> 00:35:28,025
of uses at the planning board.

621
00:35:28,392 --> 00:35:31,395
Probably the real thing to have done with

622
00:35:31,963 --> 00:35:37,068
probably get a variance to do the after
school or if there's another use group,

623
00:35:37,101 --> 00:35:41,038
put the after school in with it,
but we don't have that in that table.

624
00:35:41,172 --> 00:35:44,308
Music seems so confused
by a really simple issue.

625
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,281
What are they approved yet?

626
00:35:50,281 --> 00:35:55,620
Are are they approved as a group child
daycare center

627
00:35:55,686 --> 00:35:58,689
with the conditional use permit, or

628
00:35:59,490 --> 00:36:02,960
are they approved as a kindergarten?

629
00:36:04,061 --> 00:36:05,530
I think it's going to be yes and yes.

630
00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:07,999
They can carry all of those.

631
00:36:07,999 --> 00:36:10,234
They can carry all of those.

632
00:36:10,234 --> 00:36:11,969
So on the town.

633
00:36:11,969 --> 00:36:14,772
So if they're approved as a kindergarten,

634
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,743
well, first of
all, they have the conditional use permit.

635
00:36:18,743 --> 00:36:21,646
No, they don't need. One for.

636
00:36:21,646 --> 00:36:23,948
But we're saying that they're approved
for two things.

637
00:36:23,948 --> 00:36:29,554
The kindergarten
and the group child daycare center.

638
00:36:29,587 --> 00:36:30,488
They approve of both.

639
00:36:30,488 --> 00:36:33,324
That's
what the 2020 applicant was approved.

640
00:36:33,324 --> 00:36:34,992
For 2020 was.

641
00:36:34,992 --> 00:36:39,330
So the current owner,
are they approved for both

642
00:36:39,363 --> 00:36:42,300
the group child care center, daycare.

643
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:44,869
Center, have a license for that. Correct.

644
00:36:44,869 --> 00:36:48,439
And they're also approved
for the kindergarten program.

645
00:36:48,472 --> 00:36:51,409
We approve them for that.

646
00:36:51,409 --> 00:36:53,477
We staff approved them

647
00:36:53,477 --> 00:36:56,881
to to have a kindergarten preschool. Okay.

648
00:36:56,914 --> 00:36:58,783
And the state approved them.

649
00:36:58,783 --> 00:37:00,384
And for the.

650
00:37:00,384 --> 00:37:04,288
Group preschool, the the after school.

651
00:37:04,622 --> 00:37:08,993
And so the applicant is asking for

652
00:37:10,962 --> 00:37:12,363
the planning board to issue

653
00:37:12,363 --> 00:37:15,366
a conditional use permit

654
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,703
because, well, whatever.

655
00:37:18,703 --> 00:37:21,072
But there is one for one of the approvals.

656
00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:24,642
And they're also approved
as a kindergarten program.

657
00:37:24,642 --> 00:37:27,845
And the state
then has a licensing for that

658
00:37:27,845 --> 00:37:31,582
that allows them to do camps
and after school.

659
00:37:31,649 --> 00:37:32,783
And so.

660
00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:35,553
I can't.

661
00:37:35,553 --> 00:37:36,587
I. Have so some.

662
00:37:36,587 --> 00:37:39,590
Different license in your packet as well.

663
00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:40,157
Yeah.

664
00:37:40,157 --> 00:37:43,427
The local approvals, local approvals

665
00:37:43,427 --> 00:37:48,065
happened to allow the after school
kindergarten was always grandfathered,

666
00:37:48,065 --> 00:37:51,068
whatever that was the use
that was on an 86 man.

667
00:37:51,702 --> 00:37:53,871
The change in 20 to 21.

668
00:37:53,871 --> 00:37:57,475
Both of those asked to do after school,

669
00:37:58,109 --> 00:38:01,112
the over five years old agreed.

670
00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:01,912
Right. Yeah.

671
00:38:01,912 --> 00:38:05,650
So then going forward, the staff
at those times said, well,

672
00:38:05,650 --> 00:38:08,052
they don't need a conditional use permit
or there was a waiver to that.

673
00:38:08,052 --> 00:38:10,621
I'm not sure the planning board
had an approval.

674
00:38:10,621 --> 00:38:13,491
Well, they gave an approval
above and beyond kindergarten.

675
00:38:13,491 --> 00:38:16,460
They also allowed the after school
going forward.

676
00:38:19,764 --> 00:38:20,731
And again,

677
00:38:20,731 --> 00:38:24,568
the local approval criteria bucket,
so to speak.

678
00:38:24,802 --> 00:38:26,971
Don't go inside with state laws. Right.

679
00:38:26,971 --> 00:38:28,673
We know that.

680
00:38:28,673 --> 00:38:32,043
That's why it's hard for the staff to say
okay, this one, this one.

681
00:38:32,076 --> 00:38:35,479
Is there any more questions
specifically on what Joanne brought up

682
00:38:35,513 --> 00:38:36,881
and I know you're at.

683
00:38:36,881 --> 00:38:39,183
So I might be able to help
because I asked.

684
00:38:39,183 --> 00:38:43,287
So my cry studio we are licensed.

685
00:38:44,322 --> 00:38:46,624
So we are a licensed child care center.

686
00:38:46,624 --> 00:38:50,628
We have a school age program
that allows us to have up

687
00:38:50,628 --> 00:38:56,801
to X number of students
that is defined by.

688
00:38:57,001 --> 00:39:00,771
So the the town or cities

689
00:39:01,072 --> 00:39:04,075
fire department will determine capacity.

690
00:39:04,442 --> 00:39:10,281
The DHHS will take that

691
00:39:10,281 --> 00:39:14,085
and generally issue them a license
for the max capacity,

692
00:39:14,285 --> 00:39:17,288
assuming they have the proper teachers
and that kind of thing.

693
00:39:17,355 --> 00:39:21,092
And then from there
they can have whatever mixture

694
00:39:21,225 --> 00:39:25,129
because their license is
is not separated by that.

695
00:39:25,162 --> 00:39:28,933
So they can have a
they could have one preschooler

696
00:39:28,933 --> 00:39:31,902
and 64 after school kids.

697
00:39:32,703 --> 00:39:35,706
They're licensed
as long as they're not over 12.

698
00:39:37,308 --> 00:39:39,710
That help okay.

699
00:39:39,710 --> 00:39:40,111
All right.

700
00:39:40,111 --> 00:39:43,347
Now any board left with the town.

701
00:39:44,048 --> 00:39:47,051
All right. So I'll let you go ahead and.

702
00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:51,589
Well, I was trying to keep it simple, but
I got very confused, so I'm sure you are.

703
00:39:52,189 --> 00:39:54,792
I have the minutes from the 2020 meeting

704
00:39:54,792 --> 00:39:58,028
and they had no intentions
of changing anything exterior of them.

705
00:39:58,028 --> 00:40:00,631
So I think I was reading they they said,

706
00:40:03,267 --> 00:40:06,270
I highlighted.

707
00:40:06,670 --> 00:40:08,572
They only use main building at this time.

708
00:40:08,572 --> 00:40:10,941
They would use the first floor,
lower floor and second floor.

709
00:40:10,941 --> 00:40:14,078
It's for children who are ages
six weeks to pre-K.

710
00:40:14,111 --> 00:40:17,047
That's what
the 2020 conditional use permit was for.

711
00:40:17,047 --> 00:40:18,282
They didn't ask for after school.

712
00:40:18,282 --> 00:40:20,251
They were asking for a full day daycare.

713
00:40:20,251 --> 00:40:24,722
They wanted a full day daycare,
you know, up to kindergarten.

714
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:30,561
The conditional use permit
stays with the property.

715
00:40:30,561 --> 00:40:34,031
So it's not like
Roberta's had to go for more.

716
00:40:35,032 --> 00:40:37,034
I wrote the ordinance

717
00:40:37,034 --> 00:40:41,505
1.2.2 relationship to other laws,
ordinances, regulations.

718
00:40:41,505 --> 00:40:43,541
Whenever the provisions
of the ordinance conflict

719
00:40:43,541 --> 00:40:46,877
with any other ordinance, statute,
or rule, the more restrictive or higher

720
00:40:46,877 --> 00:40:49,880
standard shall apply, blah blah blah.

721
00:40:51,048 --> 00:40:54,251
The state lists
preschool and kindergarten, whatever.

722
00:40:54,318 --> 00:40:56,554
They list kindergarten with preschool.

723
00:40:56,554 --> 00:41:00,825
They list kindergarten with schools
when kindergartens are in schools,

724
00:41:00,891 --> 00:41:04,728
and that kindergartens are considered
preschool when they're with preschools.

725
00:41:04,829 --> 00:41:07,832
In our ordinance,
we list kindergarten twice.

726
00:41:07,832 --> 00:41:10,267
So under group childcare,

727
00:41:11,836 --> 00:41:13,904
the agency in which the child daycare

728
00:41:13,904 --> 00:41:17,808
is provided for preschool children
up to five school age children.

729
00:41:17,808 --> 00:41:21,445
This is our ordinance that we're supposed
to go by, not by the state.

730
00:41:21,512 --> 00:41:22,646
Our ordinance.

731
00:41:22,646 --> 00:41:25,182
The state can override
the local ordinance.

732
00:41:25,182 --> 00:41:26,917
Okay. This is state law.

733
00:41:26,917 --> 00:41:30,354
So they are licensed for school age kids.

734
00:41:30,354 --> 00:41:32,923
This is also state law.

735
00:41:32,923 --> 00:41:35,626
What a group child daycare is,

736
00:41:35,626 --> 00:41:38,329
is up to five school age children.

737
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:41,198
Whether the service is known as nursery,

738
00:41:41,198 --> 00:41:45,803
nursery school, kindergarten,
cooperative, child development center,

739
00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:48,305
daycare center, center
for the developmentally disabled,

740
00:41:48,305 --> 00:41:51,709
progressive school, Montessori school,
or by any other name.

741
00:41:51,742 --> 00:41:55,846
RSA 172 for.

742
00:41:58,716 --> 00:41:59,950
It's also state law.

743
00:41:59,950 --> 00:42:01,719
So that is state.

744
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,390
So they were licensed by the state
to do school age children.

745
00:42:06,957 --> 00:42:10,394
But it's group
child daycare center up to five.

746
00:42:10,461 --> 00:42:14,832
That's also licensed
for school age program which is up to 12.

747
00:42:15,065 --> 00:42:15,766
Okay.

748
00:42:15,766 --> 00:42:18,636
So in our ordinance

749
00:42:19,837 --> 00:42:22,406
that's a group child daycare center.

750
00:42:22,406 --> 00:42:23,040
That's up.

751
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,110
So in our ordinance,

752
00:42:26,277 --> 00:42:30,681
up to five school age children for group
child daycare, they want to have

753
00:42:30,681 --> 00:42:37,087
a summer camp with school age kids
not talking kindergarten.

754
00:42:37,087 --> 00:42:40,691
You said even if kindergarten is allowed
in agricultural talking

755
00:42:40,724 --> 00:42:43,661
older kids,
then they need a conditional use permit.

756
00:42:43,661 --> 00:42:47,431
It's in the ordinance,
so I'm just asking for that.

757
00:42:47,464 --> 00:42:49,266
Muddying all this up.

758
00:42:49,266 --> 00:42:53,103
There's a lot of extra that we went
through that I wasn't arguing,

759
00:42:53,203 --> 00:42:58,509
I'm just asking for this
to be seen by the planning board

760
00:42:58,509 --> 00:43:02,546
and to go over it
because the site plan didn't.

761
00:43:02,546 --> 00:43:04,381
Go. Over everything.

762
00:43:04,381 --> 00:43:07,384
They've had an addition,

763
00:43:07,451 --> 00:43:10,154
they've put an outdoor

764
00:43:10,154 --> 00:43:13,157
classroom,
and that's not part of the site plan.

765
00:43:13,757 --> 00:43:17,161
I guess they had a fire ring
that the fire department made them remove.

766
00:43:17,194 --> 00:43:20,064
So was that ever permitted
when they put it in?

767
00:43:20,064 --> 00:43:23,867
The letter from Derek
Horne listed a lot of things that changed,

768
00:43:23,867 --> 00:43:28,906
and he said he never saw a permit
for the outdoor school classroom.

769
00:43:30,407 --> 00:43:34,845
And, you know, there were a lot of changes
that should have been on site plan

770
00:43:34,878 --> 00:43:37,881
because conditional use.

771
00:43:38,882 --> 00:43:41,485
So yes.

772
00:43:41,485 --> 00:43:44,021
Ma'am. Has two follow ups to that.

773
00:43:44,021 --> 00:43:45,422
I still wasn't done. But.

774
00:43:45,422 --> 00:43:46,991
You. Can. Interrupt me. It's okay.

775
00:43:46,991 --> 00:43:49,226
No no, no. Go ahead.
You can follow. Up on that.

776
00:43:49,226 --> 00:43:50,127
I'm not sure.

777
00:43:50,127 --> 00:43:51,428
Okay. The tree line.

778
00:43:51,428 --> 00:43:53,163
I don't know if that's in the site plan.

779
00:43:53,163 --> 00:43:54,431
It's not in the site plan.

780
00:43:54,431 --> 00:43:55,833
Those those can be cut.

781
00:43:55,833 --> 00:43:58,369
And I can tell you those trees are dying.

782
00:43:58,369 --> 00:43:59,870
There's like, they're dying.

783
00:43:59,870 --> 00:44:02,706
Those trees just kind of grow up.
There's never anything up there.

784
00:44:02,706 --> 00:44:04,508
I got a picture from, like 1970.

785
00:44:04,508 --> 00:44:07,277
You can see my house right to the barn.

786
00:44:07,277 --> 00:44:10,147
You know, they're just dying
because the water, the water's changed

787
00:44:10,147 --> 00:44:13,450
over there, so, you know, it's
not as thick.

788
00:44:13,484 --> 00:44:14,485
It used to be really thick.

789
00:44:14,485 --> 00:44:14,885
I used to

790
00:44:14,885 --> 00:44:17,955
walk my kids to school through there,
and it was like going through the woods.

791
00:44:17,955 --> 00:44:20,891
Now it's like you can kind of see through
in the winter. You can see right through.

792
00:44:22,359 --> 00:44:22,593
I think

793
00:44:22,593 --> 00:44:25,829
those are kind of the notes
I was writing with.

794
00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:29,833
So yeah.

795
00:44:30,567 --> 00:44:35,105
So day camp is conditional use permit.

796
00:44:37,608 --> 00:44:38,809
Okay.

797
00:44:38,809 --> 00:44:41,812
Do any wanted to respond? Yes.

798
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:44,381
Just two things

799
00:44:44,381 --> 00:44:47,384
in the letter that we received from

800
00:44:48,919 --> 00:44:54,191
the Jason Witty was his name back in 2020.

801
00:44:54,558 --> 00:44:58,128
He specifically says in here specifically,
the child care

802
00:44:58,128 --> 00:45:01,532
Center offers
not only educational preschool programs,

803
00:45:01,532 --> 00:45:06,770
but also offers childcare for hours
outside of the normal school hours.

804
00:45:06,804 --> 00:45:09,106
The child
care center will have a typical opening

805
00:45:09,106 --> 00:45:13,811
of hours 630 and 6 p.m.,
which I had mentioned before,

806
00:45:14,344 --> 00:45:17,881
so they were planning to do it before
and after

807
00:45:18,982 --> 00:45:21,318
child care, daycare, whatever.

808
00:45:21,318 --> 00:45:23,787
They didn't say the age is in when he.

809
00:45:23,787 --> 00:45:24,955
Spoke.

810
00:45:24,955 --> 00:45:25,789
The minutes of the.

811
00:45:25,789 --> 00:45:27,825
Planning interrupting me, please.

812
00:45:27,825 --> 00:45:29,760
I'm not finished. I'm sorry.

813
00:45:31,161 --> 00:45:31,762
And the

814
00:45:31,762 --> 00:45:36,667
second thing I just wanted to mention
was the issues that she's bringing up now

815
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,372
about the children
being the older children,

816
00:45:42,406 --> 00:45:46,076
I don't believe
we're in her written appeal.

817
00:45:46,110 --> 00:45:50,180
I could be wrong,
but I don't believe those items about the

818
00:45:50,180 --> 00:45:55,519
the after school kids
being there that they weren't allowed.

819
00:45:55,686 --> 00:46:01,291
However, that should have been brought up
30 days after the town

820
00:46:01,625 --> 00:46:04,995
decided that this could go
in, not six years later.

821
00:46:04,995 --> 00:46:08,398
You can't come back to a business
six years later and say,

822
00:46:08,532 --> 00:46:11,802
you can't do that, even though
the town told you that it was okay.

823
00:46:12,770 --> 00:46:15,239
So she.

824
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,407
Initially she was she was.

825
00:46:17,407 --> 00:46:23,113
Jack had written his letter
about the noise and and the not the noise.

826
00:46:23,113 --> 00:46:24,748
It wasn't even about the noise
at that time.

827
00:46:24,748 --> 00:46:26,750
The noise was a verbal.

828
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:29,953
Jack had written his letter and said,
all of the things that you

829
00:46:29,987 --> 00:46:33,557
that you didn't care for
were taken care of.

830
00:46:33,590 --> 00:46:36,527
And Jack's letter is also in your packet.

831
00:46:38,395 --> 00:46:41,398
I'll find it in a second.

832
00:46:52,943 --> 00:46:55,045
Do we have a copy of that letter?

833
00:46:55,045 --> 00:46:57,147
I don't remember seeing it stated.

834
00:46:57,147 --> 00:47:00,150
May 21st, 2026.

835
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,589
So. One.

836
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:07,357
Signed by Derek.

837
00:47:07,357 --> 00:47:08,559
Know this is a different one.

838
00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:10,928
This is the one she's appealing.

839
00:47:10,928 --> 00:47:15,399
Says this office reviewed
your letter of April 29th regarding

840
00:47:15,399 --> 00:47:19,903
zoning code violation, where you state
that you represent Beth Ford.

841
00:47:19,903 --> 00:47:22,906
Now, again, this was sent to the attorney
and then the attorney said,

842
00:47:22,973 --> 00:47:25,943
please send it directly to her.

843
00:47:26,276 --> 00:47:28,812
The business in question
has four child care

844
00:47:28,812 --> 00:47:31,949
license, and we could name them all

845
00:47:32,115 --> 00:47:35,519
the cumulative number of children on site

846
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:38,922
at any one time cannot exceed 65.

847
00:47:38,956 --> 00:47:40,357
Section five six.

848
00:47:40,357 --> 00:47:44,061
One of the town Zoning ordinance states
compliance with regulations.

849
00:47:44,061 --> 00:47:47,231
All child care facilities must comply with

850
00:47:47,231 --> 00:47:50,701
all applicable state
and federal regulations.

851
00:47:50,767 --> 00:47:54,471
Therefore,
morning and afternoon school child care

852
00:47:55,005 --> 00:47:58,108
is permitted as part of their state
licensing.

853
00:47:58,108 --> 00:48:01,445
Summer camp is a typical activity
conducted during the summer months

854
00:48:01,445 --> 00:48:04,248
at most child care centers,
and is permitted under

855
00:48:04,248 --> 00:48:06,516
the school aged care license.

856
00:48:06,516 --> 00:48:10,087
Derek Horned, Hound administrator,
did reach out to the property owner

857
00:48:10,087 --> 00:48:15,959
in November of 20 2525,
informing him of potential violations.

858
00:48:15,993 --> 00:48:19,863
My research shows that the 2024 building
permit

859
00:48:20,130 --> 00:48:24,201
24 115
conference room has been closed out.

860
00:48:24,234 --> 00:48:28,171
The work was inspected
and approved on November 7th, 2025.

861
00:48:28,205 --> 00:48:32,476
The outdoor shelter building with campfire
ring and sitting area was inspected

862
00:48:32,476 --> 00:48:35,812
by the fire inspector, Captain Tim LaVoy.

863
00:48:35,846 --> 00:48:40,317
Captain Lavoie noted they have resolved
the issues noted during the inspection.

864
00:48:40,317 --> 00:48:42,119
The campfire ring has been removed.

865
00:48:42,119 --> 00:48:45,689
They have also obtained a tent permit
for 2026.

866
00:48:45,722 --> 00:48:48,191
All issues have been addressed
and are now resolved.

867
00:48:48,191 --> 00:48:54,331
This is the letter that this is appealing
and there's nothing in here

868
00:48:54,331 --> 00:48:57,901
about school age
children or camps or anything like that.

869
00:48:57,901 --> 00:49:03,640
So those issues should have been appealed
in 30 days

870
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:08,312
after the place
received approval from the town.

871
00:49:08,645 --> 00:49:12,249
This is the only thing she can appeal is
Jack's determination.

872
00:49:12,249 --> 00:49:16,486
It's his appeal of the zoning code
officers determination.

873
00:49:16,486 --> 00:49:17,688
At this point.

874
00:49:19,423 --> 00:49:20,590
Can I speak again?

875
00:49:20,590 --> 00:49:22,426
Still my turn.

876
00:49:22,426 --> 00:49:25,429
Board to have any questions
for a follow up first.

877
00:49:26,196 --> 00:49:27,998
Just as I think

878
00:49:27,998 --> 00:49:30,968
I said before having trouble,

879
00:49:30,968 --> 00:49:35,505
we seem to not be able to focus on
one issue.

880
00:49:35,572 --> 00:49:41,878
We go back and forth
in the ages of the children on the site

881
00:49:42,212 --> 00:49:46,583
versus
the conditions on site that are possible.

882
00:49:46,583 --> 00:49:48,285
Zoning violates.

883
00:49:48,285 --> 00:49:52,155
And, you know, it's just very difficult

884
00:49:52,155 --> 00:49:55,325
to figure out
what is supposed to be the central

885
00:49:56,626 --> 00:49:56,994
here.

886
00:49:56,994 --> 00:50:03,533
And I you know,
I do tend to agree with Joanne's point.

887
00:50:03,533 --> 00:50:07,404
If the original conditions
that are talked about here

888
00:50:07,437 --> 00:50:11,641
were going to be appeal,
they needed to be appealed

889
00:50:11,908 --> 00:50:16,213
within a reasonable time
frame after the original approval,

890
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,483
not six years later.

891
00:50:21,118 --> 00:50:22,919
I agree, I gotta say.

892
00:50:22,919 --> 00:50:25,555
I do agree. On that.

893
00:50:25,555 --> 00:50:30,193
Yes, she's appealing this letter
July 8th, 2026

894
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,196
and I think she's questioning

895
00:50:33,196 --> 00:50:36,600
or challenging number
for school aged care,

896
00:50:37,534 --> 00:50:41,004
which I also again was saying, well,

897
00:50:41,004 --> 00:50:45,876
the town says
school aged care did get approval

898
00:50:47,310 --> 00:50:48,912
in addition to kindergarten.

899
00:50:48,912 --> 00:50:50,113
Kindergarten spend for years.

900
00:50:50,113 --> 00:50:52,315
We know that that's a fact.

901
00:50:52,315 --> 00:50:55,052
It's the school aged care.

902
00:50:55,052 --> 00:50:59,489
That to me has been new
and I'm trying to find that timeline.

903
00:50:59,523 --> 00:51:04,294
I believe it happened
that school aged care

904
00:51:04,795 --> 00:51:08,799
was in the 2020 application,
and as well as the 20

905
00:51:08,832 --> 00:51:14,304
or the approval of 2020,
and then the 2021 resubmit

906
00:51:14,438 --> 00:51:18,708
because there was a new owner
also included in addition

907
00:51:18,708 --> 00:51:23,280
to kindergarten, school aged care,
I believe that's the record.

908
00:51:23,613 --> 00:51:28,318
So she's saying no school age care is not.

909
00:51:28,351 --> 00:51:32,422
And again, back in the 86 approvals,
it wasn't

910
00:51:32,622 --> 00:51:35,625
I think that the planning board,

911
00:51:36,326 --> 00:51:41,031
through the site plan process
approved school aged children.

912
00:51:41,565 --> 00:51:44,468
That's my reason why we're here.

913
00:51:44,468 --> 00:51:47,771
She's appealing that and we're saying,
well, let's look at the history.

914
00:51:47,804 --> 00:51:50,507
So that's what we're digging.
We're cranking out the sausage.

915
00:51:50,507 --> 00:51:53,510
So I'll let you answer.

916
00:51:53,543 --> 00:51:55,145
Again I have.

917
00:51:55,145 --> 00:51:57,747
Hold on as long as it's new information.

918
00:51:57,747 --> 00:51:58,048
Okay.

919
00:51:58,048 --> 00:52:02,652
Well,
I have the minutes of the 2020 meeting

920
00:52:02,652 --> 00:52:06,756
and they wanted to have a full day,
but they did not want school age kids

921
00:52:06,756 --> 00:52:09,159
they've listed.
I already told you, the age of the kids.

922
00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:12,362
And the letter from Jack

923
00:52:12,362 --> 00:52:15,565
and Joanne
wrote with him, because Derek told me

924
00:52:16,766 --> 00:52:21,104
that it is just on the school age kids.

925
00:52:22,172 --> 00:52:24,107
It's not a. 2020.

926
00:52:24,107 --> 00:52:26,209
It's not when they first started
in business.

927
00:52:26,209 --> 00:52:29,279
Like I just, you know,
they were a business

928
00:52:29,279 --> 00:52:31,081
that were doing preschool
and kindergarten.

929
00:52:31,081 --> 00:52:32,782
They were picking
kids up from kindergarten,

930
00:52:32,782 --> 00:52:34,451
bringing kids back from kindergarten.

931
00:52:34,451 --> 00:52:36,386
And I just eventually got really loud.

932
00:52:36,386 --> 00:52:38,955
And I didn't say anything right away
because I knew

933
00:52:38,955 --> 00:52:42,792
Sarah was going through a lot of issues
medically, and I just felt

934
00:52:42,826 --> 00:52:45,262
it wasn't the right time
to bring it up to the family.

935
00:52:45,262 --> 00:52:48,765
And I finally spoke to Mr.

936
00:52:48,765 --> 00:52:51,001
Robert and Mr.

937
00:52:51,001 --> 00:52:53,503
Michael outside when August 2024.

938
00:52:53,503 --> 00:52:56,106
And I told him that, you know, at first
it wasn't bad.

939
00:52:56,106 --> 00:52:57,240
It got really loud.

940
00:52:57,240 --> 00:52:59,743
I couldn't even read a book
outside anymore.

941
00:52:59,743 --> 00:53:02,646
Mr. Michael said to me, I apologize.

942
00:53:02,646 --> 00:53:04,514
You should be able to enjoy your yard. Mr.

943
00:53:04,514 --> 00:53:08,318
Robert said, well, kids playing outside
scream and make a lot of noise.

944
00:53:08,485 --> 00:53:12,622
January 2025 found out
Sarah was back to work some.

945
00:53:12,622 --> 00:53:15,292
So I called her and I told her my issues

946
00:53:15,292 --> 00:53:19,062
and about the age requirements
that I understood.

947
00:53:19,062 --> 00:53:20,730
They were approved. For.

948
00:53:20,730 --> 00:53:26,436
Group child daycare and the planning board
approved them for group child care.

949
00:53:26,436 --> 00:53:28,071
They didn't approve more.

950
00:53:29,706 --> 00:53:31,174
She said, well, I need my numbers.

951
00:53:31,174 --> 00:53:32,642
I'll talk to my staff.

952
00:53:32,642 --> 00:53:35,946
Then I called Joanne
and I don't know if you remember.

953
00:53:35,946 --> 00:53:38,248
You told me
that your daughter had moved back home.

954
00:53:38,248 --> 00:53:39,683
This has really nothing to do with it.

955
00:53:39,683 --> 00:53:41,251
But the dog moved back home.

956
00:53:41,251 --> 00:53:45,488
She works for Mont Mote and she
she couldn't handle three kids screaming.

957
00:53:45,522 --> 00:53:47,157
Stop talking over me, okay?

958
00:53:47,157 --> 00:53:49,125
All right. I'm sorry.

959
00:53:49,125 --> 00:53:51,561
So information into this, it has. No.

960
00:53:51,561 --> 00:53:55,031
She said that I could couldn't
handle the screaming kids.

961
00:53:56,166 --> 00:53:58,602
She wrote me a letter back that, you know,

962
00:53:58,602 --> 00:54:01,605
kindergarten was was

963
00:54:01,638 --> 00:54:04,474
approved for,

964
00:54:04,474 --> 00:54:07,644
permitted for the agricultural zone.

965
00:54:07,644 --> 00:54:13,250
But I was talking about the school age
kids talking up to five school age kids.

966
00:54:14,317 --> 00:54:18,188
Then I spoke with Derek,
who was the acting code enforcement

967
00:54:18,188 --> 00:54:23,393
agent at the time, and he officer
and it was hard to get a hold of him.

968
00:54:23,493 --> 00:54:27,931
I talked to him in January and he wrote
a letter to the road in school

969
00:54:28,598 --> 00:54:33,870
in November 2025 with all the changes they
made, and I didn't hear back from him.

970
00:54:33,903 --> 00:54:37,841
I finally got a hold of him in March
and he said everything was in compliance.

971
00:54:37,841 --> 00:54:39,743
And I said, well,
can you send me a letter for clients?

972
00:54:39,743 --> 00:54:40,543
And he didn't.

973
00:54:40,543 --> 00:54:44,547
So I spoke with a lawyer and I just wanted
to know, am I right about all this?

974
00:54:44,547 --> 00:54:46,850
And like the ordinance and everything?

975
00:54:46,850 --> 00:54:52,022
And and she looked into it
and she said the, the state

976
00:54:52,622 --> 00:54:56,159
didn't override, you know, our ordinance.

977
00:54:56,159 --> 00:55:00,230
But whether they did or not,
I still think that they need

978
00:55:00,230 --> 00:55:04,634
to have a conditional use permit
for the camp if they're going to have

979
00:55:04,668 --> 00:55:07,237
a bunch of school aged kids.
And that's really all I have to say.

980
00:55:07,237 --> 00:55:11,174
And all the other extra stuff,
it doesn't really matter.

981
00:55:11,174 --> 00:55:14,344
But I just don't think that that

982
00:55:15,245 --> 00:55:18,214
I think the planning board
really should look at it. And

983
00:55:19,582 --> 00:55:20,917
that's all right.

984
00:55:20,917 --> 00:55:22,118
Thank you.

985
00:55:22,118 --> 00:55:26,589
Is there anyone else from the public
that wishes to speak for this from

986
00:55:28,191 --> 00:55:28,725
the public?

987
00:55:28,725 --> 00:55:31,728
If there's anybody
who'd like to speak on this issue.

988
00:55:33,630 --> 00:55:33,963
Ma'am.

989
00:55:33,963 --> 00:55:36,599
Come on up.

990
00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:37,600
Okay.

991
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,603
So I'm just going to ask you
to state your name and address, please.

992
00:55:40,637 --> 00:55:43,907
Kathleen Bozeman 202 Wallace.

993
00:55:45,175 --> 00:55:48,878
We live at 202.

994
00:55:48,912 --> 00:55:51,548
Owen. 212 and 216.

995
00:55:51,548 --> 00:55:57,153
So our property runs
across the street from the school.

996
00:55:57,454 --> 00:55:59,889
My grandkids have gone to the school.

997
00:55:59,889 --> 00:56:02,892
I've got a great niece there.

998
00:56:03,426 --> 00:56:06,329
I'm not arguing that

999
00:56:06,329 --> 00:56:09,866
we don't hear it,
but when there's a football game

1000
00:56:09,866 --> 00:56:12,869
or a little league game,
come on up to my house.

1001
00:56:12,902 --> 00:56:15,905
I hear you can hear every word,

1002
00:56:17,173 --> 00:56:18,708
but you know what I mean.

1003
00:56:18,708 --> 00:56:20,410
It's a town. It's.

1004
00:56:20,410 --> 00:56:21,678
What are we going to do?

1005
00:56:21,678 --> 00:56:24,814
Move the ball field. Be quieter.

1006
00:56:24,848 --> 00:56:27,450
I don't, it's an inconvenience.

1007
00:56:27,450 --> 00:56:28,551
I hear you,

1008
00:56:30,086 --> 00:56:31,755
all these laws and stuff.

1009
00:56:31,755 --> 00:56:32,989
I don't have a clue.

1010
00:56:32,989 --> 00:56:36,426
But the school has been a good neighbor.

1011
00:56:38,495 --> 00:56:40,063
They.

1012
00:56:40,063 --> 00:56:44,033
When it was the previous owner,
we would let them park in our driveway

1013
00:56:44,033 --> 00:56:47,303
for graduations
to try to keep them off the road.

1014
00:56:48,304 --> 00:56:54,711
Something's going to go there and could be
maybe a swine farm or something.

1015
00:56:54,744 --> 00:56:57,747
I don't know, could always get worse.

1016
00:56:57,914 --> 00:57:03,319
I hear you, but I think
it's a nice business to have in town.

1017
00:57:03,319 --> 00:57:08,024
It's servicing a lot of the community,
and a mile down

1018
00:57:08,024 --> 00:57:11,027
the road is another huge school.

1019
00:57:12,028 --> 00:57:13,062
That's it.

1020
00:57:13,062 --> 00:57:14,431
Thank you very much.

1021
00:57:14,431 --> 00:57:16,833
You're very welcome.

1022
00:57:16,833 --> 00:57:19,836
The next person who wanted to speak,
please.

1023
00:57:26,242 --> 00:57:27,110
Hi, everyone.

1024
00:57:27,110 --> 00:57:31,481
My name is Mary Jenkins
and I live at 245 Wallace Road.

1025
00:57:31,648 --> 00:57:35,752
The property abuts the Gage Farm
Schoolhouse property down.

1026
00:57:36,553 --> 00:57:39,155
Oh, the microphone, please.

1027
00:57:39,155 --> 00:57:39,589
All right.

1028
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:42,992
I'll just say that again
for anyone who didn't hear out there.

1029
00:57:43,293 --> 00:57:46,796
Mary Fike
Jenkins, 245 Wallace Road property

1030
00:57:46,830 --> 00:57:50,934
abuts the Gage Farm Schoolhouse property
along Dan Middlebrook

1031
00:57:50,967 --> 00:57:54,971
and along the
the woods between our properties.

1032
00:57:55,205 --> 00:57:57,073
I am not the property owner.

1033
00:57:57,073 --> 00:58:01,744
My mom is, and she has some mobility
issues right now and can't be here,

1034
00:58:01,744 --> 00:58:06,382
but asked me to just say
a couple of things on her behalf.

1035
00:58:06,516 --> 00:58:09,919
I'll start though,
by saying that I grew up there.

1036
00:58:09,919 --> 00:58:13,089
I had the pleasure
of living next door to the gages

1037
00:58:13,089 --> 00:58:16,125
and then the Gilmore's
and then the Shapiro's, and

1038
00:58:16,626 --> 00:58:19,929
am generally glad
that there is a school there

1039
00:58:19,929 --> 00:58:23,132
that makes good use of the property.

1040
00:58:23,933 --> 00:58:25,869
My mom's comments.

1041
00:58:25,869 --> 00:58:29,706
Her name is Gail
Fike again, 245 Wallace Road.

1042
00:58:30,406 --> 00:58:32,242
Just have to do with,

1043
00:58:33,843 --> 00:58:34,344
you know,

1044
00:58:34,344 --> 00:58:37,680
the importance of following protocol

1045
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,683
and requirements around

1046
00:58:41,384 --> 00:58:45,088
around the proceedings and appeal process
and so on.

1047
00:58:45,121 --> 00:58:48,124
So just wanted to just say,

1048
00:58:48,758 --> 00:58:51,895
you know,
just please follow whatever the rules are,

1049
00:58:52,395 --> 00:58:55,398
whatever the regulations are.

1050
00:58:55,532 --> 00:58:59,636
Her main concern is about habitat
and environment.

1051
00:58:59,802 --> 00:59:03,473
She'll say, yes, it's our property,
you know, Gage farm,

1052
00:59:03,473 --> 00:59:07,210
schoolhouse and the fake residence at 245
Wallace Road.

1053
00:59:07,243 --> 00:59:09,445
That's property, but it's not our land.

1054
00:59:09,445 --> 00:59:13,182
And she has grave concerns
about wildlife habitat

1055
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:17,153
in the area. And,

1056
00:59:17,754 --> 00:59:21,291
you know, I'm not saying for a minute
that that child care

1057
00:59:21,691 --> 00:59:25,094
and the school age programing
and so on is incompatible

1058
00:59:25,094 --> 00:59:29,365
with the approvals
or with the agricultural use.

1059
00:59:29,365 --> 00:59:33,770
Clearly the statutes
and the regs allow for that.

1060
00:59:34,237 --> 00:59:37,173
We just do see some inherent differences

1061
00:59:37,173 --> 00:59:40,143
in the use of the property

1062
00:59:40,243 --> 00:59:45,815
and the activity down along the brook,
which is also habitat for deer

1063
00:59:45,815 --> 00:59:51,120
and other wildlife in the area,
which is maybe neither here nor there.

1064
00:59:51,654 --> 00:59:55,758
It's just that the more the property
is used in an expansive way

1065
00:59:55,792 --> 01:00:00,196
during the summer months,
that that is quite a bit different.

1066
01:00:00,196 --> 01:00:03,967
But again, you know,
we're glad that there's a school there.

1067
01:00:03,967 --> 01:00:05,868
Again, thanks. Thank you.

1068
01:00:07,370 --> 01:00:08,671
Is there anyone else?

1069
01:00:08,671 --> 01:00:14,644
Sorry. Sue.

1070
01:00:16,346 --> 01:00:17,880
Good evening.

1071
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,148
I'm Tim Searles.

1072
01:00:19,148 --> 01:00:22,485
I live at 311
Terrell Hill Road here in Goffstown.

1073
01:00:22,518 --> 01:00:23,886
I'm a member of the planning board,

1074
01:00:23,886 --> 01:00:26,956
but I'm not here
on behalf of the Planning Board.

1075
01:00:28,625 --> 01:00:30,193
A couple of things.

1076
01:00:30,193 --> 01:00:30,760
Few things.

1077
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:35,765
First, correct me if I'm wrong, but state
law overrides local law.

1078
01:00:35,798 --> 01:00:37,533
Local jurisdiction. Right.

1079
01:00:37,533 --> 01:00:42,472
So if they have a state license
for 65 kids.

1080
01:00:43,606 --> 01:00:47,410
And in the minutes that Mrs.

1081
01:00:47,410 --> 01:00:50,413
Gage was referring to,

1082
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,883
they applied
for a kindergarten daycare center.

1083
01:00:54,183 --> 01:00:57,954
So if their license for 65 kids
have those licenses,

1084
01:00:57,954 --> 01:01:00,790
I think it should be able to stand
that they should be able to.

1085
01:01:00,790 --> 01:01:03,793
And in that same in those same minutes,

1086
01:01:04,193 --> 01:01:07,530
they stated the hours of operation 632, 6

1087
01:01:07,530 --> 01:01:12,368
or 7, whatever it was, the estate of
the the hours of operation.

1088
01:01:13,636 --> 01:01:16,639
So between that.

1089
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,275
Between that, that

1090
01:01:19,275 --> 01:01:23,880
and as far as the wildlife, it's
no more destructive than a farm

1091
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:29,052
being there before where they had
horses probably, or whatever, or cattle

1092
01:01:29,852 --> 01:01:32,955
trotting through the brook, probably,
and probably

1093
01:01:32,955 --> 01:01:36,926
doing the same amount of regional impact
as a two ton or as a one

1094
01:01:36,959 --> 01:01:40,563
ton animal would going up
only it's just divided

1095
01:01:40,563 --> 01:01:43,566
into 65 kids.

1096
01:01:44,934 --> 01:01:47,503
Other than that,

1097
01:01:47,503 --> 01:01:51,641
this whole thing, this whole
appeal process is kind of frustrating.

1098
01:01:51,641 --> 01:01:53,543
But like,

1099
01:01:53,543 --> 01:01:58,414
I don't see in my limited capacity,

1100
01:01:58,648 --> 01:02:03,920
in my limited understanding of what's
going on, I don't see why we're here.

1101
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:05,888
But she has every right to appeal.

1102
01:02:05,888 --> 01:02:07,890
I think the appeal should be denied.

1103
01:02:07,890 --> 01:02:10,893
Thank you.

1104
01:02:11,027 --> 01:02:14,030
Anyone else from the public?

1105
01:02:14,430 --> 01:02:17,333
With that,
I will close the public hearing and

1106
01:02:18,601 --> 01:02:19,535
the board.

1107
01:02:19,535 --> 01:02:21,204
I think someone wanted to.

1108
01:02:21,204 --> 01:02:21,604
Oh, sorry.

1109
01:02:21,604 --> 01:02:22,605
Was there someone else?

1110
01:02:22,605 --> 01:02:25,174
Oh. I'm sorry.
I will reopen the public hearing.

1111
01:02:25,174 --> 01:02:25,575
Sorry.

1112
01:02:25,575 --> 01:02:28,544
We'll scratch that out.

1113
01:02:28,945 --> 01:02:30,079
Hi, everyone.

1114
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:32,148
Good evening.

1115
01:02:32,148 --> 01:02:32,448
All right.

1116
01:02:32,448 --> 01:02:32,815
When you.

1117
01:02:32,815 --> 01:02:35,785
When you work in a classroom, I'm
looking for high.

1118
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,556
Up. Hi, I'm Sarah Stone.

1119
01:02:40,556 --> 01:02:45,728
I'm a part owner and director of Cage
Farm Schoolhouse.

1120
01:02:45,762 --> 01:02:47,530
I'm also the daughter of the owners,
David.

1121
01:02:47,530 --> 01:02:49,031
Nancy. Roberta.

1122
01:02:49,031 --> 01:02:50,199
I'm Michael O'Keefe,

1123
01:02:50,199 --> 01:02:53,269
and I'm the assistant director
and outdoor learning specialist.

1124
01:02:54,270 --> 01:02:57,273
I the reason why we're even here

1125
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:02,345
about Cage Farm is that I was a student
of New Orleans School back in the mid 80s.

1126
01:03:02,945 --> 01:03:04,881
I have a master's in early childhood.

1127
01:03:04,881 --> 01:03:08,351
I have two young boys
that I just went through childcare,

1128
01:03:08,384 --> 01:03:11,587
trying to find the perfect spot
for my kid, my kids.

1129
01:03:11,587 --> 01:03:13,222
Excuse me?

1130
01:03:13,222 --> 01:03:15,892
My parents gave me the opportunity
to buy the property.

1131
01:03:15,892 --> 01:03:20,163
As former alumni,
parents of New Morning School.

1132
01:03:20,163 --> 01:03:21,831
We just loved the property.

1133
01:03:21,831 --> 01:03:24,433
Loved the experience that provided.

1134
01:03:24,433 --> 01:03:28,638
And we're from Bedford
and it's just nothing like that property.

1135
01:03:28,671 --> 01:03:33,709
I wouldn't be here starting a business
if it wasn't for that property.

1136
01:03:33,876 --> 01:03:38,214
I have been a huge part
of becoming part of the community

1137
01:03:39,215 --> 01:03:42,118
with different events around town.

1138
01:03:42,118 --> 01:03:45,588
There is a severe need

1139
01:03:46,756 --> 01:03:49,091
for childcare, good childcare.

1140
01:03:49,091 --> 01:03:50,193
As a former first grade

1141
01:03:50,193 --> 01:03:53,196
teacher and kindergarten teacher
in the public school system.

1142
01:03:53,196 --> 01:03:55,031
Kids are coming to me.

1143
01:03:55,031 --> 01:03:56,799
Families were coming to me

1144
01:03:56,799 --> 01:04:00,369
feeling like they were prepared
and ready for first grade.

1145
01:04:00,403 --> 01:04:03,840
If you have any kids
that have been first grade or higher,

1146
01:04:04,106 --> 01:04:06,843
the expectations of first grade

1147
01:04:06,843 --> 01:04:09,846
is so different than when I grew up.

1148
01:04:10,246 --> 01:04:12,281
These parents would invest
in really good programs,

1149
01:04:12,281 --> 01:04:15,718
and they would come to my first grade
public school

1150
01:04:15,785 --> 01:04:17,353
in Manchester, New Hampshire.

1151
01:04:17,353 --> 01:04:19,121
Not a you no public school.

1152
01:04:19,121 --> 01:04:22,191
That's average in our state.

1153
01:04:22,425 --> 01:04:25,394
And they would be blown away
by the expectations.

1154
01:04:25,394 --> 01:04:28,564
I wanted to provide a space

1155
01:04:28,564 --> 01:04:32,802
that had full curriculum, full

1156
01:04:32,802 --> 01:04:37,039
classrooms of space that parents felt like
their money was going to good use.

1157
01:04:37,073 --> 01:04:40,610
It wasn't just childcare. It was a school.

1158
01:04:40,610 --> 01:04:44,513
It was a place where parents felt like
they were part of the community.

1159
01:04:44,547 --> 01:04:46,249
They felt connected.

1160
01:04:46,249 --> 01:04:47,583
Their kids were learning.

1161
01:04:47,583 --> 01:04:50,720
But I also having two boys
knew that the only place

1162
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:56,392
I would want to start a school and leave
my pension is 215 Walls Road.

1163
01:04:56,425 --> 01:05:00,029
It provides a space
that has an outdoor space for kids.

1164
01:05:00,096 --> 01:05:03,132
As a working mom, myself
and my husband being a police officer

1165
01:05:03,132 --> 01:05:06,202
at Manchester, we have an Army reserves.

1166
01:05:06,202 --> 01:05:08,571
We have very limited
time to do all the things

1167
01:05:08,571 --> 01:05:12,241
we want to do with our kids,
like go on a walk,

1168
01:05:12,642 --> 01:05:17,280
be in nature, go sledding in the winter,
we get home from work, it's time for bed.

1169
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,649
It's time for nighttime.

1170
01:05:19,649 --> 01:05:22,051
Hopefully we get dinner
and we're off to bed.

1171
01:05:22,051 --> 01:05:25,321
So that was my vision
when I started Gage Barton.

1172
01:05:25,855 --> 01:05:27,523
I brought Mr. Michael.

1173
01:05:27,523 --> 01:05:31,827
Michael O'Keefe
along as my assistant director.

1174
01:05:31,861 --> 01:05:34,363
He is our outdoor specialist.

1175
01:05:34,363 --> 01:05:37,833
He spends time with kids,
so I want to make sure

1176
01:05:37,833 --> 01:05:40,836
he speaks on behalf of farm.

1177
01:05:41,103 --> 01:05:44,240
I will pass this around if that's okay.

1178
01:05:44,774 --> 01:05:48,411
It does have our state license
that we're okay for 65.

1179
01:05:48,444 --> 01:05:52,515
We have been approved
for actually more kids than 65

1180
01:05:52,815 --> 01:05:55,918
since the state changed their ratio.

1181
01:05:56,686 --> 01:05:57,586
Sorry, not the ratio.

1182
01:05:57,586 --> 01:05:58,054
Excuse me.

1183
01:05:58,054 --> 01:06:01,324
There's square footage from 40 square foot

1184
01:06:01,590 --> 01:06:04,360
space for per child to 35.

1185
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,128
So we have been approved for more.

1186
01:06:06,128 --> 01:06:09,231
I have not come to
you asking for more kids.

1187
01:06:09,665 --> 01:06:12,335
I could, but I haven't.

1188
01:06:12,335 --> 01:06:15,237
I am happy with 65.

1189
01:06:15,237 --> 01:06:16,605
I think it's a good number.

1190
01:06:16,605 --> 01:06:19,208
It's like where we're at right now.

1191
01:06:19,208 --> 01:06:19,642
I'm not saying

1192
01:06:19,642 --> 01:06:22,645
I'm not going to do it in the future,
but I just want you to know that it's

1193
01:06:22,645 --> 01:06:26,248
actually under
what the state is allowing us to have.

1194
01:06:26,449 --> 01:06:28,484
Just real quick. Yeah, please.

1195
01:06:28,484 --> 01:06:32,321
The license that you were talking about it
currently does state 65

1196
01:06:32,355 --> 01:06:34,023
is a correct yes. Yeah.

1197
01:06:34,023 --> 01:06:35,891
The one could change. Correct.

1198
01:06:35,891 --> 01:06:40,096
And I do have an email from the state
saying that they recommend us

1199
01:06:40,129 --> 01:06:43,332
actually upping our numbers,
but I have not done so.

1200
01:06:43,366 --> 01:06:47,269
Our state license,
the reason why you had two times

1201
01:06:47,269 --> 01:06:50,239
is because we get a new license
every three years.

1202
01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:53,275
And we started in 2021 to the 2022
school year.

1203
01:06:53,275 --> 01:06:57,613
So we are now it's expiring in 2027.

1204
01:06:57,613 --> 01:06:58,748
Just so you all know that.

1205
01:06:58,748 --> 01:07:01,884
And our summer camp
is under our state license.

1206
01:07:01,884 --> 01:07:04,687
So it's really just the same program
moving forward.

1207
01:07:04,687 --> 01:07:08,624
So we still have four year
olds in a class.

1208
01:07:08,624 --> 01:07:11,293
We still have kindergartners in a class.

1209
01:07:11,293 --> 01:07:15,765
And then we have older students
who also need care during the summertime.

1210
01:07:15,765 --> 01:07:21,604
And it's it's not a really a different
programs, the same program, same license.

1211
01:07:23,172 --> 01:07:23,906
The state actually

1212
01:07:23,906 --> 01:07:28,144
recommended us to do a camp license
to actually hold two licenses.

1213
01:07:28,144 --> 01:07:29,845
We have chosen not to do that.

1214
01:07:29,845 --> 01:07:34,650
So our program, just like Michael
said, is the same exact license.

1215
01:07:34,650 --> 01:07:37,086
We just call it summer camp.

1216
01:07:37,086 --> 01:07:39,922
It is from age two and a half

1217
01:07:39,922 --> 01:07:44,193
to 12 years old, but
we are allowed infants if we wanted to.

1218
01:07:44,226 --> 01:07:47,229
But we hold our our license from

1219
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:50,433
two and a half years old to 12.

1220
01:07:50,933 --> 01:07:56,172
With that said, it is like you said,
it's the same license, same childcare.

1221
01:07:56,172 --> 01:07:58,841
Parents need full time care.
They need summer.

1222
01:07:58,841 --> 01:08:00,943
It's they need full time care.

1223
01:08:00,943 --> 01:08:02,445
And there's a huge need.

1224
01:08:02,445 --> 01:08:05,548
We are summer camp, I'm proud to say.

1225
01:08:05,548 --> 01:08:07,917
But I was also very surprised.

1226
01:08:07,917 --> 01:08:11,387
Just says something
about what we have in our town,

1227
01:08:12,555 --> 01:08:12,922
in our

1228
01:08:12,922 --> 01:08:17,927
local surrounding communities, is that our
our summer camp

1229
01:08:18,094 --> 01:08:22,031
filled up within an hour
of putting it out there

1230
01:08:23,632 --> 01:08:25,234
totally full.

1231
01:08:25,234 --> 01:08:29,305
Parents are begging to get their kids
in it.

1232
01:08:29,305 --> 01:08:30,673
Is that.

1233
01:08:30,673 --> 01:08:33,676
Yeah, it's a need. It's a huge need.

1234
01:08:33,809 --> 01:08:38,013
Parents are asking us to be open
for holiday breaks.

1235
01:08:38,013 --> 01:08:40,983
They need care. People need work.

1236
01:08:40,983 --> 01:08:42,651
But we also are.

1237
01:08:42,651 --> 01:08:46,889
I feel we've been extremely respectful
of our neighbors

1238
01:08:47,356 --> 01:08:50,526
in the book at the beginning.

1239
01:08:50,559 --> 01:08:55,931
It shows kind of the schedule of the
summer camp and how it's how we schedule.

1240
01:08:55,931 --> 01:08:57,066
Yeah, we spread out.

1241
01:08:57,066 --> 01:09:02,404
We're not all in the same spot
for a large period of time.

1242
01:09:02,605 --> 01:09:07,510
Our aftercare goes from 230
at the earliest, is when we get back with

1243
01:09:07,510 --> 01:09:10,679
our first van with kids

1244
01:09:10,679 --> 01:09:13,883
from New Boston,
and then it goes until 530,

1245
01:09:13,916 --> 01:09:18,187
and then that's our school age
aftercare during the school year.

1246
01:09:18,687 --> 01:09:24,160
Yeah, it just shows you that we
break it up within groups of age groups.

1247
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,496
So there are 30 kids plus

1248
01:09:27,496 --> 01:09:31,033
depending on the day that are there's
definitely 15 in each group.

1249
01:09:31,033 --> 01:09:31,967
So we have four groups.

1250
01:09:31,967 --> 01:09:32,968
So it was 15.

1251
01:09:32,968 --> 01:09:38,307
In our kids that are entering pre-K
and kindergarten, there's 15

1252
01:09:38,574 --> 01:09:43,345
maybe up to 18
that are entering into first grade.

1253
01:09:43,646 --> 01:09:47,016
And then but they were
kindergartners are entering first grade,

1254
01:09:47,016 --> 01:09:50,719
and then we have two older groups
that are about 15 each that are

1255
01:09:52,254 --> 01:09:55,424
entering second grade up to fifth grade.

1256
01:09:55,491 --> 01:09:58,494
I was sorry, accuse me sixth grade.

1257
01:09:58,727 --> 01:09:59,428
That 12 year. Old.

1258
01:09:59,428 --> 01:10:02,031
Mark, that 12 year old Mark. Exactly.

1259
01:10:02,031 --> 01:10:04,567
So we we spent people ask him,

1260
01:10:04,567 --> 01:10:08,037
how do you have a camp for four year
olds up to 12 year olds?

1261
01:10:08,037 --> 01:10:11,240
And it's like, well,
we've split them up by their their age.

1262
01:10:11,307 --> 01:10:12,241
What's appropriate.

1263
01:10:12,241 --> 01:10:17,513
So our our younger group,
which is more than half of our camp,

1264
01:10:17,546 --> 01:10:21,650
is as you'll see in our schedule,
they're indoors quite a bit.

1265
01:10:21,684 --> 01:10:22,384
And it's not that

1266
01:10:22,384 --> 01:10:26,355
we don't want them to be outdoors, it's
because they need to have snack in an area

1267
01:10:26,355 --> 01:10:30,759
that is clean, and they are able to be
in a spot where they can actually sit.

1268
01:10:30,793 --> 01:10:31,894
Because the picnic tables

1269
01:10:31,894 --> 01:10:35,631
aren't great for our little guys,
they need to have rest time.

1270
01:10:35,631 --> 01:10:39,802
It is mandated by our state license
that they have rest time for an hour

1271
01:10:40,202 --> 01:10:44,306
if they're entering kindergarten
or younger, and so we have them inside

1272
01:10:44,373 --> 01:10:45,207
having rest.

1273
01:10:45,207 --> 01:10:47,309
We call it mean time
because they don't like nap time.

1274
01:10:47,309 --> 01:10:52,815
But we do have that time
with our kiddos that are. Yes.

1275
01:10:52,848 --> 01:10:56,719
And then we also have, like Michael said,
we do stations.

1276
01:10:56,719 --> 01:10:59,088
So there's a group
that's down by the brook.

1277
01:10:59,088 --> 01:11:02,791
So again 15 kids, it's
not 65 running through the brook

1278
01:11:02,825 --> 01:11:06,528
like crazy and ruining our property
and our environment.

1279
01:11:06,528 --> 01:11:11,834
We have 15 kids that are up by the tent
that are doing crafts, making necklaces,

1280
01:11:11,867 --> 01:11:13,836
making bracelets. They're not screaming.

1281
01:11:13,836 --> 01:11:15,471
I mean, kids are going to be loud.

1282
01:11:15,471 --> 01:11:18,307
I'm not saying they aren't,
but we don't have kids

1283
01:11:18,307 --> 01:11:21,877
that are just scratching like,
I don't like screaming.

1284
01:11:21,910 --> 01:11:25,814
I'll tell you, I love kids, I love play,
I love when they're laughing.

1285
01:11:25,814 --> 01:11:30,119
I love when they're, you know, running
after somebody and making lots of noise.

1286
01:11:30,152 --> 01:11:32,921
Yes, but we don't have kids
that just scream.

1287
01:11:32,921 --> 01:11:35,424
We don't have infants,
we don't have toddlers.

1288
01:11:35,424 --> 01:11:38,694
We don't even have three year
olds in our summer camp because it's

1289
01:11:38,694 --> 01:11:41,797
a different environment
than our regular school days.

1290
01:11:42,131 --> 01:11:46,368
So I just, you know, at the most
there's when she's

1291
01:11:46,368 --> 01:11:49,438
talking about the outdoor classroom,
we were approved for that.

1292
01:11:49,438 --> 01:11:52,508
We do have kitchens,
but it's part of our property.

1293
01:11:52,574 --> 01:11:56,812
We have breeze garden beds, but they're
all spread out doing different things.

1294
01:11:56,812 --> 01:11:59,214
And we do that for a reason for safety,

1295
01:11:59,214 --> 01:12:02,885
for the enjoyment of kids
not being cluttered in one spot.

1296
01:12:02,918 --> 01:12:06,355
They're able to enjoy
all that we have to offer at Gage,

1297
01:12:06,588 --> 01:12:10,392
but part of that's indoors
and we don't go outside.

1298
01:12:10,426 --> 01:12:12,728
Our morning care is from 7 to 8:00.

1299
01:12:12,728 --> 01:12:16,231
We do not go outside
until 8:00 due to staffing.

1300
01:12:16,765 --> 01:12:19,568
I only have a certain amount
that I do for morning care

1301
01:12:19,568 --> 01:12:23,405
because I can't get the staffing
for that early, and we do

1302
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:27,776
start at 7 a.m., not 6 a.m.,
which was approved, but we started seven.

1303
01:12:29,812 --> 01:12:30,813
Hour aftercare.

1304
01:12:30,813 --> 01:12:34,683
We give a discount until 430,
so most of the kids are gone by 430.

1305
01:12:34,717 --> 01:12:38,587
We have truly like eight kids until 530.

1306
01:12:39,321 --> 01:12:40,356
We are out.

1307
01:12:40,356 --> 01:12:43,225
We are inside the entire campus, inside
when it's too hot,

1308
01:12:43,225 --> 01:12:45,327
which we've had a lot of hot days.

1309
01:12:45,327 --> 01:12:50,532
We do have AC in our building
and if it rains they're fully indoors,

1310
01:12:50,566 --> 01:12:53,802
so it's not a total outdoor program
where we're outside all day

1311
01:12:53,802 --> 01:12:57,072
long with 65 kids
just running around and screaming.

1312
01:12:57,106 --> 01:12:58,407
It's very organized.

1313
01:12:58,407 --> 01:12:59,775
It is structured.

1314
01:12:59,775 --> 01:13:01,944
Any parent that is part of our gauge for

1315
01:13:01,944 --> 01:13:05,714
our family will tell you
it's not just childcare, it is a school.

1316
01:13:05,714 --> 01:13:07,249
It's a program.

1317
01:13:07,249 --> 01:13:11,286
We are trying to bring that love of nature
into these young kids

1318
01:13:11,286 --> 01:13:15,691
that deserve it so much, but
also giving them more of that curriculum

1319
01:13:15,691 --> 01:13:19,695
and just a true
balance is what we do at Gage Firm.

1320
01:13:19,895 --> 01:13:22,331
Do you want to speak for the environment,
please, because you're.

1321
01:13:22,331 --> 01:13:24,533
Outdoor specialist sure.

1322
01:13:24,533 --> 01:13:25,868
To put you on. The spot.

1323
01:13:25,868 --> 01:13:29,037
So we we do try to mitigate

1324
01:13:29,037 --> 01:13:32,174
erosion on in some of our areas.

1325
01:13:32,174 --> 01:13:36,545
We try to build
water stops in when our stream is rushing,

1326
01:13:36,545 --> 01:13:39,882
so we can keep our frogs and our fish

1327
01:13:39,882 --> 01:13:42,951
and our other aquatic critters alive.

1328
01:13:43,986 --> 01:13:44,987
We we

1329
01:13:44,987 --> 01:13:48,590
find salamanders
and we don't pick them up.

1330
01:13:48,624 --> 01:13:50,359
We just watch them.

1331
01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:54,897
We try not to expose the critters
that we see to all of our human stuff.

1332
01:13:54,897 --> 01:13:58,734
We try to leave no trace and and watch.

1333
01:13:59,635 --> 01:14:03,806
So it's really not just like a place where
we're just running wild in the woods,

1334
01:14:03,839 --> 01:14:07,376
like we really teach the kids
all those things and how important

1335
01:14:07,376 --> 01:14:11,146
it is to take care of, you know,
the animals and plants and everything.

1336
01:14:11,146 --> 01:14:15,684
So and I also wanted
to just speak on the traffic.

1337
01:14:15,684 --> 01:14:20,088
I know we're not here for the traffic,
but I was told by Adam, who's

1338
01:14:20,856 --> 01:14:23,325
the owner of Green Thumb,
that it was okay to share this,

1339
01:14:23,325 --> 01:14:28,096
but he said that, you know, he's
got a business right across the street.

1340
01:14:28,096 --> 01:14:29,965
He's like, I have loud equipment.

1341
01:14:29,965 --> 01:14:31,767
I'm a landscaper.

1342
01:14:31,767 --> 01:14:34,770
He's like,
you guys, I've never had any issues

1343
01:14:34,770 --> 01:14:37,973
with getting my equipment
in and out of Wallace Road.

1344
01:14:38,006 --> 01:14:41,043
You have never had people, even two cars

1345
01:14:41,043 --> 01:14:44,146
waiting to pull in to your drop off.

1346
01:14:44,146 --> 01:14:47,449
We have a window of time
that we offer for free for parents

1347
01:14:47,449 --> 01:14:52,488
to drop off from 8:00 to 830,
so they're not all there all at once.

1348
01:14:52,488 --> 01:14:57,493
We stagger it out for the reason of
the town, for the reason of our neighbors,

1349
01:14:57,493 --> 01:14:59,962
for the reason of everyone
just to make sure.

1350
01:14:59,962 --> 01:15:02,831
And I'm not really sure
I want to speak upon

1351
01:15:02,831 --> 01:15:05,834
what she said,
saying that I need to check my numbers.

1352
01:15:05,834 --> 01:15:09,972
I never said that, but what I said was,
I'm so sorry you feel that way.

1353
01:15:09,972 --> 01:15:13,208
We have like, I truly still care

1354
01:15:13,208 --> 01:15:16,678
so much for that and the the history.

1355
01:15:16,712 --> 01:15:22,451
We even named our business after the
history of the property and the family.

1356
01:15:23,252 --> 01:15:26,355
We were going to do
Red red barn schoolhouse,

1357
01:15:26,355 --> 01:15:30,492
but we decided to cage Farm Schoolhouse
to keep the history going.

1358
01:15:31,527 --> 01:15:33,028
We have a great connection.

1359
01:15:33,028 --> 01:15:36,164
I was kind of surprised
that it has come to this, to be honest,

1360
01:15:36,164 --> 01:15:38,634
because I feel like we communicate
really well.

1361
01:15:38,634 --> 01:15:41,637
We've always been friendly neighbors, but

1362
01:15:41,970 --> 01:15:45,307
what I did say to her
is that I'm so sorry you feel this way.

1363
01:15:45,874 --> 01:15:50,312
I cannot change my business model
or my business plan.

1364
01:15:50,546 --> 01:15:53,248
Neither kept my parents
because we've been approved for it.

1365
01:15:53,248 --> 01:15:55,350
And this is we don't live there.

1366
01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:58,353
This is we've put a lot of money.

1367
01:15:58,687 --> 01:16:00,789
We went through an SBA loan

1368
01:16:00,789 --> 01:16:04,526
because I was school teacher
and my parents are in retirement.

1369
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,963
We went through SB alone
and we spent a lot of money

1370
01:16:07,963 --> 01:16:10,799
getting the best of like
making sure the property

1371
01:16:10,799 --> 01:16:14,469
looked beautiful for the town,
making sure that we have like

1372
01:16:14,536 --> 01:16:17,906
we've
we've added so much to that property.

1373
01:16:18,707 --> 01:16:22,444
So anyways, I just I want you to know,
I didn't say the numbers.

1374
01:16:22,444 --> 01:16:26,081
I did say I can't change my business plan
due to

1375
01:16:26,882 --> 01:16:29,184
you feeling it's too loud
and I'm sorry you feel that way.

1376
01:16:29,184 --> 01:16:32,187
And I was very apologetic
that I felt that she felt that way.

1377
01:16:32,187 --> 01:16:34,890
But it wasn't going
to change anything either.

1378
01:16:36,024 --> 01:16:36,692
Just.

1379
01:16:36,692 --> 01:16:37,392
Sorry. The last thing.

1380
01:16:37,392 --> 01:16:43,465
I'm talking circles and I am recovering
from leukemia three times, so I apologize.

1381
01:16:43,465 --> 01:16:48,737
My speech and everything's a little off,
but the traffic situation.

1382
01:16:50,839 --> 01:16:52,207
Again,
I know we're not talking about that,

1383
01:16:52,207 --> 01:16:56,445
but the Henry Bridge was closed,
so I was told by a lot of parents

1384
01:16:56,445 --> 01:17:00,048
that there was a lot of traffic
coming through Wallace Road due to that,

1385
01:17:00,248 --> 01:17:04,386
as well as a partial close of a bridge
near.

1386
01:17:05,487 --> 01:17:07,055
Terrell Hill. Yeah.

1387
01:17:07,055 --> 01:17:11,026
So we did have two accidents
this summer on Wallace Road.

1388
01:17:11,093 --> 01:17:12,027
Pretty bad accidents.

1389
01:17:12,027 --> 01:17:18,367
When we called in ourselves that people
went off into the ditch we did offer.

1390
01:17:18,367 --> 01:17:23,205
The policeman was very thankful
to our school actually, because we we

1391
01:17:23,238 --> 01:17:27,275
he shut down the road right there,
and we actually use our private driveway

1392
01:17:27,376 --> 01:17:32,748
to turn everybody around and go back
during our aftercare pick up hours, which.

1393
01:17:32,748 --> 01:17:35,684
Is. Not a great timing for an accident.

1394
01:17:35,684 --> 01:17:39,588
But we made it work
because we're community members.

1395
01:17:40,355 --> 01:17:42,391
We volunteered at the Pumpkin Regatta.

1396
01:17:42,391 --> 01:17:43,025
We've just

1397
01:17:43,025 --> 01:17:47,696
we've tried to be really good neighbors
and really good community members.

1398
01:17:47,929 --> 01:17:50,599
And yeah. That's. All. I have to say.

1399
01:17:50,599 --> 01:17:53,135
Thank you for your time.
Do you have any questions. For me?

1400
01:17:54,403 --> 01:17:56,371
I just have.

1401
01:17:56,371 --> 01:17:58,874
I have one question. Yeah. Please.

1402
01:17:58,874 --> 01:18:02,277
Clearly your facility has been in front
of the planning board in the past,

1403
01:18:02,277 --> 01:18:05,280
but if by

1404
01:18:05,347 --> 01:18:07,349
some turn of events,

1405
01:18:07,349 --> 01:18:10,052
this board said, yeah,
you got to go back to the planning board,

1406
01:18:10,052 --> 01:18:13,655
would you take that as an opportunity
to increase the number of students

1407
01:18:13,655 --> 01:18:18,093
from 65 to a larger number
that the state would agree to?

1408
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,897
Parents would love me to do
that, would love for me to do that?

1409
01:18:23,065 --> 01:18:26,034
We are in a wait list up to 2030.

1410
01:18:26,034 --> 01:18:27,769
Just to give everyone perspective.

1411
01:18:27,769 --> 01:18:31,273
We have about 70 kids on a wait
list for this upcoming school year.

1412
01:18:32,107 --> 01:18:34,276
Would I like to offer that?

1413
01:18:34,276 --> 01:18:37,145
Yes. As a business owner,
would it make sense?

1414
01:18:37,145 --> 01:18:38,346
Of course it would.

1415
01:18:38,346 --> 01:18:43,318
We have a big property, big expense
for small, only three classrooms per day.

1416
01:18:44,052 --> 01:18:47,689
We did extend the our half day

1417
01:18:47,689 --> 01:18:49,758
kindergarten
to help with the wraparound programs.

1418
01:18:49,758 --> 01:18:51,693
The why is on a wait list.

1419
01:18:51,693 --> 01:18:54,730
People are begging to get that half day K

1420
01:18:55,397 --> 01:18:57,999
so would I do it?

1421
01:18:57,999 --> 01:19:02,170
I'm not saying I wouldn't,
but I can't really.

1422
01:19:02,170 --> 01:19:06,241
I'm not sure I it's a good
yeah for my staff.

1423
01:19:06,241 --> 01:19:10,545
I want them to be comfortable,
I want them I want as a parent

1424
01:19:10,612 --> 01:19:13,348
feel like
they're not in a class with 25 students.

1425
01:19:13,348 --> 01:19:15,817
That's public school.
I came from public school.

1426
01:19:15,817 --> 01:19:16,918
I don't want to do that.

1427
01:19:16,918 --> 01:19:19,054
But at the same time,
I have to make enough money

1428
01:19:19,054 --> 01:19:22,057
to support my parents
that put their retirement money

1429
01:19:22,057 --> 01:19:26,328
into this property
and belief in me to make this worth

1430
01:19:26,328 --> 01:19:29,331
their investment.

1431
01:19:29,397 --> 01:19:32,234
And also, yeah, so it's a tough balance.

1432
01:19:32,234 --> 01:19:35,137
Like I of course
I have a big loan to fill.

1433
01:19:35,137 --> 01:19:38,306
I have I have a lot of money
invested into this business.

1434
01:19:38,373 --> 01:19:41,877
My parents, of course do, but I'm

1435
01:19:41,877 --> 01:19:45,080
the one responsible to pay that loan. So

1436
01:19:46,047 --> 01:19:48,283
yeah,
I don't know how to answer that question.

1437
01:19:48,283 --> 01:19:51,520
I just I would not overflow my anyone

1438
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:54,523
that knows me as a parent to me or

1439
01:19:55,390 --> 01:19:57,526
someone that works for me, they know that

1440
01:19:57,526 --> 01:20:01,429
I would not just
I don't add kids just to add kids.

1441
01:20:01,429 --> 01:20:05,133
I want it to be a good experience
for everyone involved.

1442
01:20:06,768 --> 01:20:08,537
Anyone else?

1443
01:20:08,537 --> 01:20:10,205
I have a very easy one. Yeah.

1444
01:20:10,205 --> 01:20:14,309
You don't need any waivers to operate
any of your any of your programs

1445
01:20:14,576 --> 01:20:17,312
from the state. Okay. Thank you. Welcome.

1446
01:20:17,312 --> 01:20:18,413
Thank you.

1447
01:20:18,413 --> 01:20:20,048
Thank you for your time.

1448
01:20:20,048 --> 01:20:20,415
Okay.

1449
01:20:20,415 --> 01:20:23,385
One last chance. Anyone in the up, sir?

1450
01:20:23,385 --> 01:20:25,453
All right.

1451
01:20:25,453 --> 01:20:28,456
I'm the father.

1452
01:20:29,257 --> 01:20:32,260
Do you still have to tell us your name?

1453
01:20:33,695 --> 01:20:33,995
David.

1454
01:20:33,995 --> 01:20:36,998
Roberta.

1455
01:20:37,065 --> 01:20:37,866
My wife Nancy.

1456
01:20:37,866 --> 01:20:39,734
And I

1457
01:20:39,734 --> 01:20:42,170
loved. The new morning school.

1458
01:20:42,170 --> 01:20:44,172
We know the Shapiro's closely.

1459
01:20:46,374 --> 01:20:49,377
I'm the one that was driving by down

1460
01:20:49,411 --> 01:20:52,647
Wallace Road
when the property went up for sale.

1461
01:20:53,315 --> 01:20:57,752
I'm the one that called Sarah and said,
boy, if you ever wanted to change lanes

1462
01:20:57,786 --> 01:21:00,789
where you went to school with up for sale.

1463
01:21:02,290 --> 01:21:05,160
I'm the one that

1464
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:07,762
put together a business plan.

1465
01:21:07,762 --> 01:21:12,801
I went to the bank
and they when I had retired and they said,

1466
01:21:13,835 --> 01:21:16,638
I said, I'd like to buy this property
and have it retrofitted

1467
01:21:16,638 --> 01:21:18,840
back to a school and get it furnished.

1468
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:19,975
And can we do this?

1469
01:21:19,975 --> 01:21:23,011
And they asked what my income was, and I

1470
01:21:23,011 --> 01:21:26,448
said,
Social Security required distributions.

1471
01:21:26,481 --> 01:21:30,785
They said, you don't qualify, but
you might be a really good SBA candidate.

1472
01:21:31,152 --> 01:21:35,190
And so we started the process.

1473
01:21:35,190 --> 01:21:38,326
I met with Curt Lauer, architect in town,

1474
01:21:38,326 --> 01:21:42,998
and the people that had met earlier
to do the school.

1475
01:21:43,031 --> 01:21:46,835
They backed away
because to purchase the property,

1476
01:21:47,202 --> 01:21:51,439
to do all the incredible upgrades
that are required for it,

1477
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:57,112
to meet all the current codes, to have it
hardwired into the fire department,

1478
01:21:57,112 --> 01:22:01,850
to have the whole wiring down in
the school that have all the

1479
01:22:02,951 --> 01:22:04,653
all the upgrades,

1480
01:22:04,653 --> 01:22:07,989
new subject, new everything to have it

1481
01:22:08,056 --> 01:22:11,026
meet code.

1482
01:22:11,426 --> 01:22:13,361
Was quite an undertaking.

1483
01:22:13,361 --> 01:22:16,364
And then so he

1484
01:22:17,332 --> 01:22:20,168
the original people
were going to use the upstairs apartment

1485
01:22:20,168 --> 01:22:23,505
where the Shapiro's lived
to have the space.

1486
01:22:23,571 --> 01:22:26,574
It would require a

1487
01:22:27,242 --> 01:22:28,643
sprinkler system.

1488
01:22:28,643 --> 01:22:31,646
And because it's a private well,

1489
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:35,517
you'd have to have a certified public
water system to have the school now

1490
01:22:35,550 --> 01:22:40,255
and to do that off a well, it was cost
prohibitive to have a reservoir.

1491
01:22:40,388 --> 01:22:44,159
So Kurt came up with a plan
to do the third classroom in the basement.

1492
01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:48,163
That was the addition in 1986,
came up with a plan.

1493
01:22:48,563 --> 01:22:49,030
He said.

1494
01:22:49,030 --> 01:22:52,233
I think the numbers would work
with our year round program.

1495
01:22:52,233 --> 01:22:57,205
I put the business plan
together, the bank and the SBA.

1496
01:22:59,207 --> 01:23:02,043
Thought my plan was was solid.

1497
01:23:02,043 --> 01:23:05,880
Sarah started to work with the state
to find out what it would take to get

1498
01:23:06,848 --> 01:23:07,482
licensed.

1499
01:23:07,482 --> 01:23:11,252
And then I came to the town
and I know all of the ministries

1500
01:23:11,252 --> 01:23:14,255
because I came and said,
I don't know anything about this.

1501
01:23:14,255 --> 01:23:16,691
Here's my business plan.

1502
01:23:16,691 --> 01:23:18,793
Can we do this?

1503
01:23:18,793 --> 01:23:24,032
And I worked
and I mean, I'm in there quite frequently.

1504
01:23:24,032 --> 01:23:25,166
I know almost everybody.

1505
01:23:25,166 --> 01:23:28,937
And I you know,
they tell me what to do and I try to do

1506
01:23:28,937 --> 01:23:31,906
it, and.

1507
01:23:32,974 --> 01:23:36,411
It's a it's so far away from whatever
I what I did.

1508
01:23:36,444 --> 01:23:40,515
I'm just trying to pass it forward
and let a daughter do follow her passion.

1509
01:23:40,515 --> 01:23:44,986
And I could not have got the bank loan

1510
01:23:45,587 --> 01:23:48,757
without the approval from the town.

1511
01:23:48,757 --> 01:23:49,724
I could have.

1512
01:23:49,724 --> 01:23:53,595
We couldn't have gone through the SBA
process, and we wouldn't be here today

1513
01:23:53,595 --> 01:23:58,800
unless everyone that was financing
this whole thing was assured

1514
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:03,571
that we had done our due diligence
and had gone through proper process.

1515
01:24:03,605 --> 01:24:06,808
And and I just hope that we did that and,

1516
01:24:06,841 --> 01:24:10,011
and that we're doing things in accordance.

1517
01:24:10,011 --> 01:24:13,248
And I can tell you if,
when the when the team came out

1518
01:24:13,248 --> 01:24:16,651
this summer, we just opened the door
and they walked through with us the

1519
01:24:16,918 --> 01:24:21,189
the past fire chief
not to get too derailed.

1520
01:24:23,591 --> 01:24:26,127
When Vassar Electric was

1521
01:24:26,127 --> 01:24:29,531
pointing in all doing
all the electric rewiring.

1522
01:24:30,298 --> 01:24:33,802
Apparently
they put the wrong light bulbs in with.

1523
01:24:34,202 --> 01:24:37,272
They had to redo the whole ceilings
and stuff for a fire code,

1524
01:24:37,272 --> 01:24:43,511
and he required them to redo every light
fixture to meet code.

1525
01:24:43,711 --> 01:24:46,548
And and

1526
01:24:46,548 --> 01:24:49,050
safety is my responsibility,

1527
01:24:49,050 --> 01:24:53,855
and I don't want to ever do anything
that's going to jeopardize anything.

1528
01:24:53,855 --> 01:24:57,525
And I'm going to
if somebody says do something,

1529
01:24:57,892 --> 01:25:00,895
I try to find out a way to get it done.

1530
01:25:00,929 --> 01:25:04,632
Right now, we're in the process
of restoring the barn.

1531
01:25:04,833 --> 01:25:08,670
I just worked with team engineering
to put a plan together.

1532
01:25:09,337 --> 01:25:12,707
So it's sort of we've been working

1533
01:25:13,041 --> 01:25:17,011
in a certified safe this past summer.

1534
01:25:17,011 --> 01:25:20,415
We took some eaves off
because I was afraid they might fall.

1535
01:25:20,682 --> 01:25:25,386
And it just
I think we have tried to be good

1536
01:25:25,386 --> 01:25:29,457
stewards, good neighbors
and to be compliant.

1537
01:25:29,457 --> 01:25:33,161
And if we ever step out of line,

1538
01:25:33,194 --> 01:25:37,265
we will do everything we possibly can
to bring it into compliance.

1539
01:25:37,265 --> 01:25:38,967
I ran a

1540
01:25:39,968 --> 01:25:42,904
business small medical practice
for 40 years.

1541
01:25:42,904 --> 01:25:44,606
I know medical compliance.

1542
01:25:44,606 --> 01:25:47,609
I, I live that life

1543
01:25:47,976 --> 01:25:50,912
and and safety

1544
01:25:50,912 --> 01:25:54,048
is in compliance are just top priorities.

1545
01:25:54,048 --> 01:25:56,651
That's my area of responsibility.

1546
01:25:56,651 --> 01:26:00,255
So I work with Jack, I work,
I mean all the time.

1547
01:26:00,455 --> 01:26:03,258
Tell me what I need to do
and I'll do it anyway.

1548
01:26:03,258 --> 01:26:04,592
That's our story.

1549
01:26:04,592 --> 01:26:08,563
I hope that we've been compliant,
but I can assure you, if

1550
01:26:08,563 --> 01:26:12,767
if there's any issues that come up
from anywhere, we will do whatever

1551
01:26:12,767 --> 01:26:15,770
we can do to be good stewards.

1552
01:26:15,837 --> 01:26:20,909
On the parking part we put in, Curt
recommended three drop off lanes.

1553
01:26:21,075 --> 01:26:24,612
We got the parking all done
so we don't have parking.

1554
01:26:24,646 --> 01:26:27,315
Any issues that have come to our attention
we've addressed.

1555
01:26:27,315 --> 01:26:30,919
We put signs up
for slow traffic for school,

1556
01:26:32,187 --> 01:26:33,054
and we're always

1557
01:26:33,054 --> 01:26:37,158
open for anything
we need to do to be better.

1558
01:26:37,158 --> 01:26:40,228
It's 15 acres, and much as they

1559
01:26:40,361 --> 01:26:43,431
stated, much of what's being done,
it's done

1560
01:26:43,498 --> 01:26:47,035
way down below, off the road away.

1561
01:26:47,268 --> 01:26:50,672
We wanted to get the playground
that was off to the right, down

1562
01:26:50,672 --> 01:26:53,708
under, out, back
and and to do the outdoor.

1563
01:26:53,908 --> 01:26:56,911
You have raised garden beds, do stuff

1564
01:26:56,978 --> 01:26:59,914
that kids don't get to do today
and the parents love it.

1565
01:26:59,914 --> 01:27:03,685
The golf community loves it
where they all love it

1566
01:27:03,685 --> 01:27:05,286
because there's nothing like it.

1567
01:27:05,286 --> 01:27:09,324
And we're fortunate
to have two people behind me that

1568
01:27:10,325 --> 01:27:12,927
they're following their passion,
and that's what parents always want.

1569
01:27:12,927 --> 01:27:14,963
So thank you for your time.

1570
01:27:14,963 --> 01:27:15,597
Thank you.

1571
01:27:15,597 --> 01:27:18,600
I don't know if there's any questions.

1572
01:27:19,234 --> 01:27:20,768
Thank you sir. Thank you.

1573
01:27:23,738 --> 01:27:26,708
Is there anyone else?

1574
01:27:26,708 --> 01:27:29,510
I do want to say traffic's wonderful.

1575
01:27:29,510 --> 01:27:32,513
They've done wonderful with parking.

1576
01:27:33,081 --> 01:27:35,650
I think this has gone
really kind of blown out.

1577
01:27:35,650 --> 01:27:38,953
Do you have a copy
of my original complaint in your packet?

1578
01:27:38,953 --> 01:27:41,756
Or just the letter from Jack?

1579
01:27:41,756 --> 01:27:44,759
They have the whole thing. My.

1580
01:27:45,159 --> 01:27:47,362
My my complaint was very small.

1581
01:27:47,362 --> 01:27:48,763
It doesn't complain.

1582
01:27:48,763 --> 01:27:49,163
And yes,

1583
01:27:49,163 --> 01:27:53,134
we did have a really great relationship
and I tried bringing pictures

1584
01:27:53,134 --> 01:27:53,768
to the property.

1585
01:27:53,768 --> 01:27:54,535
Everything. Great.

1586
01:27:54,535 --> 01:27:55,470
Great relationship.

1587
01:27:55,470 --> 01:27:59,507
This all had to do with the noise,
the extra, the extra, the extra programs

1588
01:27:59,507 --> 01:28:00,475
they have. That's all.

1589
01:28:00,475 --> 01:28:04,412
And all I'm saying is,
I think the planning board to look at it

1590
01:28:04,412 --> 01:28:07,015
because they did not go to the planning
door,

1591
01:28:07,015 --> 01:28:10,018
they didn't have to go
to the planning board, so they haven't.

1592
01:28:10,018 --> 01:28:13,121
So Charlie, you asked about
if they didn't go to the planning board

1593
01:28:13,154 --> 01:28:16,891
because they didn't need to
for the preschool, that's all.

1594
01:28:17,158 --> 01:28:17,492
Thank you.

1595
01:28:17,492 --> 01:28:18,926
But I'll be extra.

1596
01:28:18,926 --> 01:28:21,029
They they have done really good.

1597
01:28:21,029 --> 01:28:23,364
And we did work together really good.

1598
01:28:23,364 --> 01:28:26,367
This is just a little thing, that's all.

1599
01:28:26,367 --> 01:28:28,770
Not all the other stuff
I'm complaining about.

1600
01:28:28,770 --> 01:28:29,937
Thanks. Thank you.

1601
01:28:31,773 --> 01:28:34,208
Anyone else?

1602
01:28:34,208 --> 01:28:34,809
Okay.

1603
01:28:34,809 --> 01:28:38,346
Seeing none, I'm
going to close the public hearing. And.

1604
01:28:40,948 --> 01:28:42,850
I'd like to address.

1605
01:28:42,850 --> 01:28:44,018
I'm sorry.

1606
01:28:44,018 --> 01:28:46,521
Oh. Thank you.

1607
01:28:46,521 --> 01:28:49,724
You did the minutes, right,
so you would be next.

1608
01:28:49,757 --> 01:28:51,326
Okay.

1609
01:28:51,326 --> 01:28:54,329
I'd like to address
the standing of the appeal.

1610
01:28:54,529 --> 01:28:57,332
One second. Otherwise, you'll kill me.

1611
01:28:57,332 --> 01:29:00,234
I hereby a

1612
01:29:00,234 --> 01:29:02,570
appoint you as the voting alternate.

1613
01:29:02,570 --> 01:29:03,738
Sorry.

1614
01:29:03,738 --> 01:29:06,274
Okay. Well, that would be Alan, right?

1615
01:29:06,274 --> 01:29:09,077
I don't think this has. Anything for.
The Davis Alan.

1616
01:29:09,077 --> 01:29:09,911
Thank you.

1617
01:29:09,911 --> 01:29:12,513
I don't believe this has
a regional development issue.

1618
01:29:12,513 --> 01:29:13,481
Oh, yeah. That's right.

1619
01:29:13,481 --> 01:29:16,217
We need that, too.
I don't believe it does.

1620
01:29:16,217 --> 01:29:20,588
It's going to feel something,
but I make motion that it has no impact.

1621
01:29:21,122 --> 01:29:22,190
Second. Second.

1622
01:29:22,190 --> 01:29:25,193
All in favor? Christine?

1623
01:29:25,393 --> 01:29:26,627
Oh, actually, yeah.

1624
01:29:26,627 --> 01:29:28,229
This is all part of this.

1625
01:29:28,229 --> 01:29:30,365
Okay. All in favor?

1626
01:29:30,365 --> 01:29:32,567
Opposed? Motion carries.

1627
01:29:32,567 --> 01:29:34,235
There is no regional impact.

1628
01:29:34,235 --> 01:29:37,805
And I want to get the next step
that I think the zoning board has

1629
01:29:38,706 --> 01:29:41,476
the case for hearing the request.

1630
01:29:41,476 --> 01:29:44,479
It's an appeal
of an administrative decision.

1631
01:29:44,579 --> 01:29:47,348
The letter that was written July 8th,

1632
01:29:47,348 --> 01:29:49,917
2026 wasn't overly

1633
01:29:51,319 --> 01:29:54,155
specific, with

1634
01:29:54,155 --> 01:29:57,992
sections and verbiage of numbers,
just that indicated

1635
01:29:57,992 --> 01:30:02,764
the uses that number for being school
aged care, which I think was contained.

1636
01:30:02,897 --> 01:30:06,000
They've expanded what it was way back.

1637
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,636
We we followed that history.

1638
01:30:08,636 --> 01:30:12,673
I tried to get us to get that history
for findings of fact,

1639
01:30:14,308 --> 01:30:16,411
and we've got some of the

1640
01:30:16,411 --> 01:30:19,280
planning board minutes from 2020.

1641
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:20,815
And they discussed that.

1642
01:30:20,815 --> 01:30:23,751
It was later
became an after school center as

1643
01:30:23,751 --> 01:30:26,754
well.

1644
01:30:26,921 --> 01:30:29,924
New morning
school has been closed for some time,

1645
01:30:30,391 --> 01:30:33,094
but then it's a change
from its present use.

1646
01:30:33,094 --> 01:30:34,629
We need to review that.

1647
01:30:34,629 --> 01:30:39,434
That was Jim Raymond for planning Board,
Joanne Duffy said.

1648
01:30:39,434 --> 01:30:42,370
That's why they're here for conditional
use permit.

1649
01:30:42,370 --> 01:30:48,042
That meeting they came in for, I believe,
a site plan and a conditional use permit.

1650
01:30:49,210 --> 01:30:50,978
Jim Raymond says a condition is permanent.

1651
01:30:50,978 --> 01:30:53,948
Site can only view it done
at the same time.

1652
01:30:53,948 --> 01:30:56,951
He indicated the condition use permits
the zoning matter

1653
01:30:57,218 --> 01:31:00,054
site fans a planning matter.

1654
01:31:00,054 --> 01:31:01,389
I don't believe that's true.

1655
01:31:01,389 --> 01:31:05,159
True because the condition use permits
granted from the zoning ordinance

1656
01:31:05,159 --> 01:31:08,796
and the planning board
typically executes that.

1657
01:31:10,164 --> 01:31:13,067
So then we fast forward
to the notice of decision

1658
01:31:13,067 --> 01:31:16,070
from that meeting and the planning board.

1659
01:31:17,605 --> 01:31:20,074
And said the waiver requests were granted.

1660
01:31:20,074 --> 01:31:23,077
And it's a conditional use request.

1661
01:31:24,245 --> 01:31:27,215
And they made a motion
to grant the waivers.

1662
01:31:27,215 --> 01:31:32,286
But all the conditional use issues
made a motion to approve the condition

1663
01:31:32,286 --> 01:31:35,289
use permit based on the representation
of the applications.

1664
01:31:35,523 --> 01:31:39,927
And it got seconded and they dealt
with the conditional use permit.

1665
01:31:39,961 --> 01:31:41,362
Yeah. Planning board dealt with that

1666
01:31:42,797 --> 01:31:45,800
which had some expanded use.

1667
01:31:47,935 --> 01:31:49,136
Then the site plan.

1668
01:31:49,136 --> 01:31:52,807
They made a waiver to the requirement

1669
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:56,477
that didn't have to be an engineered plan,
but to use a marked up plan.

1670
01:31:56,477 --> 01:31:59,480
That was red line from the 86 site plan.

1671
01:31:59,814 --> 01:32:04,018
So the planning board established
the history that they acted on a site plan

1672
01:32:04,151 --> 01:32:07,889
and conditional use permit
that included school

1673
01:32:07,889 --> 01:32:10,892
age children greater than five.

1674
01:32:10,958 --> 01:32:13,961
So I'm satisfied that.

1675
01:32:15,396 --> 01:32:18,566
Complies and that the applicant hasn't.

1676
01:32:19,066 --> 01:32:21,869
I don't see why
there's any argument for that.

1677
01:32:21,869 --> 01:32:24,972
It doesn't,
but that's just my opinion for the moment.

1678
01:32:25,072 --> 01:32:27,375
Trying to follow this. It's
very convoluted.

1679
01:32:27,375 --> 01:32:28,976
A lot of history here.

1680
01:32:28,976 --> 01:32:30,478
Look how thick the packet is.

1681
01:32:30,478 --> 01:32:32,313
Yeah,

1682
01:32:32,313 --> 01:32:35,683
I don't know if anybody else wants added
any other comment to that.

1683
01:32:36,384 --> 01:32:40,288
Well, just without going into Bruce's
convoluted history,

1684
01:32:40,321 --> 01:32:45,126
I think that, you know what
we're being asked to do by having them

1685
01:32:45,126 --> 01:32:48,829
go to the planning board for conditional
use permit,

1686
01:32:48,896 --> 01:32:54,001
is adding an additional requirement
to what they've already gone

1687
01:32:54,268 --> 01:32:56,337
over for their state licensing,

1688
01:32:56,337 --> 01:33:00,107
which I don't think
is within the legal purview of this board.

1689
01:33:00,107 --> 01:33:03,477
I just, you know, I just don't

1690
01:33:03,477 --> 01:33:06,681
find that,
you know, the appeal has any merit.

1691
01:33:07,949 --> 01:33:10,151
I don't think the planning board
would accept an application

1692
01:33:10,151 --> 01:33:13,154
with an issue because they'd say,
we've already done one.

1693
01:33:13,387 --> 01:33:16,390
They granted a waiver or whatever
it was for it.

1694
01:33:17,358 --> 01:33:18,759
That's that's.

1695
01:33:18,759 --> 01:33:18,993
Sure.

1696
01:33:18,993 --> 01:33:21,896
I just think that the
the heart of the issue is

1697
01:33:21,896 --> 01:33:24,966
the applicant is wondering,
are they following all the rules?

1698
01:33:24,966 --> 01:33:25,600
And I think

1699
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:30,371
from what we've gathered, I think that
they are following all the rules and their

1700
01:33:30,538 --> 01:33:34,108
their licenses are all valid
and being followed.

1701
01:33:36,110 --> 01:33:39,313
My only comment was given, given the,

1702
01:33:41,282 --> 01:33:43,084
the pieces of their license

1703
01:33:43,084 --> 01:33:46,087
and our lack of

1704
01:33:46,487 --> 01:33:50,458
complete definition in our table of uses.

1705
01:33:50,891 --> 01:33:55,096
I actually, based on their license
and description,

1706
01:33:55,096 --> 01:33:59,567
would consider it a kindergarten
or elementary school as well.

1707
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:03,771
So given that that is permitted
by right in agricultural zone.

1708
01:34:04,205 --> 01:34:08,309
So I personally wouldn't

1709
01:34:08,309 --> 01:34:11,846
see a zoning need
for a conditional use permit period.

1710
01:34:13,848 --> 01:34:16,851
That's my take on this.

1711
01:34:17,451 --> 01:34:19,854
So that being said,

1712
01:34:19,854 --> 01:34:22,857
is there any further discussion
or is there a motion.

1713
01:34:23,290 --> 01:34:27,228
Offer, a motion that we reject

1714
01:34:27,228 --> 01:34:30,231
the application to the

1715
01:34:30,498 --> 01:34:35,236
we uphold the zoning officers decision

1716
01:34:35,236 --> 01:34:39,306
that it does not require
a conditional use permit

1717
01:34:40,841 --> 01:34:42,576
for this activity.

1718
01:34:42,576 --> 01:34:44,045
Okay. Motion upholding.

1719
01:34:44,045 --> 01:34:46,347
The letter.

1720
01:34:46,347 --> 01:34:47,748
Second by John.

1721
01:34:47,748 --> 01:34:50,885
All in favor? II opposed.

1722
01:34:51,285 --> 01:34:54,288
Motion carries.

1723
01:35:01,128 --> 01:35:02,997
How about a about a three minute.

1724
01:35:02,997 --> 01:35:03,731
Break.

1725
01:35:03,731 --> 01:35:06,434
For the next one. We will now.

1726
01:35:06,434 --> 01:35:09,637
Enter into a legal
with a five minute break

1727
01:35:09,637 --> 01:35:13,040
and restart at 8:30 p.m..

1728
01:40:09,069 --> 01:40:10,871
So we will resume the meeting

1729
01:40:10,871 --> 01:40:14,675
now for this next hearing.

1730
01:40:15,075 --> 01:40:17,311
Charlie, you will be voting alternate.

1731
01:40:17,311 --> 01:40:20,314
Please.

1732
01:40:20,481 --> 01:40:21,615
Craig. Drawback.

1733
01:40:21,615 --> 01:40:25,152
Applicant owner is seeking variances
to remove and rebuild a garage

1734
01:40:25,152 --> 01:40:29,089
that is five feet from the side property
lines, whereas a 25 side

1735
01:40:29,123 --> 01:40:33,560
setback is required for section
4.3 of the ordinance.

1736
01:40:33,761 --> 01:40:38,032
The proposed structures will also exceed
the maximum allowable ten building

1737
01:40:38,032 --> 01:40:42,603
coverage on the lot per section
4.3 of the town's only ordinance,

1738
01:40:42,636 --> 01:40:46,840
as the structures
will approximately cover 15.1% of the lot.

1739
01:40:47,107 --> 01:40:50,644
The property is located at 129 Mountain
Base Road.

1740
01:40:50,677 --> 01:40:53,847
Map 41, lot 2000. I'm sorry.

1741
01:40:53,881 --> 01:40:55,849
Zoned agricultural.

1742
01:40:55,849 --> 01:40:58,485
We have a motion for regional impact.

1743
01:40:58,485 --> 01:41:01,488
I'll move. No regional impact. Motion for.

1744
01:41:01,655 --> 01:41:03,290
Second round. Second for Bruce.

1745
01:41:03,290 --> 01:41:06,260
All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

1746
01:41:06,260 --> 01:41:07,394
Motion carries.

1747
01:41:09,229 --> 01:41:11,965
Applicant to come on up.

1748
01:41:11,965 --> 01:41:12,566
I have a question.

1749
01:41:12,566 --> 01:41:15,602
Is Charlie
the voting alternate in this one? Yep.

1750
01:41:22,476 --> 01:41:23,010
Who you are.

1751
01:41:23,010 --> 01:41:25,579
And my name is correct.

1752
01:41:25,579 --> 01:41:28,849
I hope the fact that I don't have ten
people supporting me doesn't

1753
01:41:29,550 --> 01:41:32,553
go against me.

1754
01:41:32,619 --> 01:41:32,920
Yeah.

1755
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,756
So I was here in April
for something similar

1756
01:41:35,756 --> 01:41:38,759
on the same property,

1757
01:41:38,759 --> 01:41:40,894
for a variance on

1758
01:41:40,894 --> 01:41:43,397
building a house that's already underway.

1759
01:41:43,397 --> 01:41:45,732
And yes, I hope to do.

1760
01:41:45,732 --> 01:41:50,337
I wasn't planning on doing this
with the garage, but the current one is

1761
01:41:51,138 --> 01:41:51,672
the front of.

1762
01:41:51,672 --> 01:41:54,675
It's almost half a foot

1763
01:41:55,509 --> 01:41:58,178
lower than the back,
so it's kind of sinking.

1764
01:41:58,178 --> 01:42:02,316
And I felt like
I didn't realize that in April

1765
01:42:02,316 --> 01:42:05,319
when I was coming for the first variance,

1766
01:42:06,053 --> 01:42:08,889
but I'm.

1767
01:42:08,889 --> 01:42:13,060
Wanting to basically replace
the garage structure and the

1768
01:42:14,828 --> 01:42:15,529
replace it with the

1769
01:42:15,529 --> 01:42:18,532
garage and the same exact place

1770
01:42:18,532 --> 01:42:21,535
of the same exact footprint.

1771
01:42:23,937 --> 01:42:26,940
That's basically it.

1772
01:42:27,241 --> 01:42:30,978
I talked to my the the butter next to me.

1773
01:42:31,311 --> 01:42:34,148
Who's the five foot

1774
01:42:34,148 --> 01:42:37,151
property line,
the butter mentioned in there.

1775
01:42:37,151 --> 01:42:43,123
And he's like, well, if you need to,
I don't intend to do that.

1776
01:42:43,157 --> 01:42:46,160
But just just for note.

1777
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:52,833
I don't think that.

1778
01:42:54,535 --> 01:42:57,771
Based on the House

1779
01:42:58,205 --> 01:43:01,041
not being an issue for the reasons
stated in there,

1780
01:43:01,041 --> 01:43:05,245
I feel like the garage
should be a similar issue.

1781
01:43:06,313 --> 01:43:08,482
Craig, did you consider

1782
01:43:08,482 --> 01:43:12,853
attaching the garage to the house
in some way

1783
01:43:12,853 --> 01:43:15,856
to try to consolidate the footprint?

1784
01:43:19,993 --> 01:43:22,563
Is your house design done?

1785
01:43:22,563 --> 01:43:25,465
I have framing and a roof at this point.

1786
01:43:25,465 --> 01:43:26,733
Oh. I'm sorry.

1787
01:43:26,733 --> 01:43:29,269
Yep. I get it, kind of.

1788
01:43:31,371 --> 01:43:34,374
Figuring out the garage

1789
01:43:34,474 --> 01:43:38,312
part and the fact that it was sinking
and everything kind of happened

1790
01:43:38,912 --> 01:43:43,850
after things were already ready in motion
with the with the house.

1791
01:43:44,051 --> 01:43:47,054
That makes sense. Yeah.

1792
01:43:47,154 --> 01:43:48,522
This was the trolley horse.

1793
01:43:48,522 --> 01:43:51,525
Correct. Yeah. Okay, I got you.

1794
01:43:52,159 --> 01:43:54,161
So the 15.

1795
01:43:54,161 --> 01:43:59,566
Point 1% coverage of the lot
is the same right now as it will be after.

1796
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:02,469
That's not a changing number
one way or another. Correct.

1797
01:44:02,469 --> 01:44:05,472
Because I'll still be doing a 20 by 20.

1798
01:44:05,672 --> 01:44:08,675
Same.

1799
01:44:11,445 --> 01:44:12,079
Question.

1800
01:44:12,079 --> 01:44:15,015
Do you have any room to move it
further away

1801
01:44:15,015 --> 01:44:18,018
from the lot line in any way?

1802
01:44:18,318 --> 01:44:21,121
There's almost immediately

1803
01:44:21,121 --> 01:44:24,124
to the right of it is the tank.

1804
01:44:25,292 --> 01:44:28,295
Well, there's the tank just

1805
01:44:28,395 --> 01:44:31,999
to the corner of it, but
the leach field is right next to it also.

1806
01:44:31,999 --> 01:44:33,967
So I mean like within a couple of feet.

1807
01:44:36,436 --> 01:44:39,439
It's possible it could go.

1808
01:44:39,773 --> 01:44:41,708
Same foundation. Everything.

1809
01:44:41,708 --> 01:44:42,643
Sit right on it.

1810
01:44:42,643 --> 01:44:45,012
Down the woods we build on top.

1811
01:44:45,012 --> 01:44:48,015
Correct.

1812
01:44:50,050 --> 01:44:50,951
Same foundation.

1813
01:44:50,951 --> 01:44:53,954
No no. No no. No no no.

1814
01:44:54,221 --> 01:44:55,689
The foundation. Yeah.

1815
01:44:55,689 --> 01:44:56,657
New foundation.

1816
01:44:56,657 --> 01:44:58,592
Same same same.

1817
01:44:58,592 --> 01:45:00,694
And everything is going to be okay.

1818
01:45:00,694 --> 01:45:03,430
It's poured
and then it's going to be poured.

1819
01:45:03,430 --> 01:45:07,301
Or is it like the original is
what might have been a block or the old.

1820
01:45:07,334 --> 01:45:11,038
It's it's it's concrete, but I'm gone.

1821
01:45:11,772 --> 01:45:13,640
It's just sinking.

1822
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:15,042
Thinking, cracking jokes.

1823
01:45:15,042 --> 01:45:17,644
Yeah.

1824
01:45:17,644 --> 01:45:19,413
Replacing what's there.

1825
01:45:19,413 --> 01:45:21,948
Correct.

1826
01:45:21,948 --> 01:45:24,117
As I'm looking at the picture

1827
01:45:24,117 --> 01:45:27,120
of the house
from the front on the property.

1828
01:45:27,220 --> 01:45:30,991
This is located at about two
the rear of the house

1829
01:45:30,991 --> 01:45:34,328
at roughly 10:00 or thereabouts.

1830
01:45:34,494 --> 01:45:35,362
10 to 11:00.

1831
01:45:35,362 --> 01:45:38,365
Yeah. So.

1832
01:45:38,398 --> 01:45:41,401
Just back left.

1833
01:45:49,443 --> 01:45:50,577
I just wanted to mention that

1834
01:45:51,645 --> 01:45:52,612
it may not be

1835
01:45:52,612 --> 01:45:56,350
officially condemned,
but we do have a statute that in

1836
01:45:56,717 --> 01:46:02,055
an ordinance that allows someone
for a condemned building to rebuild it

1837
01:46:02,089 --> 01:46:06,793
in the same footprint
if it was a non-conforming structure.

1838
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:10,831
It's not condemned,
but there's just support in our ordinances

1839
01:46:10,831 --> 01:46:14,000
for taking non-conforming structures
that are dilapidated

1840
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:17,003
and rebuilding it in the same location.

1841
01:46:18,038 --> 01:46:21,375
And I think we're treating it
as a replacement

1842
01:46:21,375 --> 01:46:24,378
in kind, essentially.

1843
01:46:26,646 --> 01:46:28,615
Anyone else?

1844
01:46:28,615 --> 01:46:30,617
Do we need him?

1845
01:46:30,617 --> 01:46:32,819
We have to grant him a variance of this.

1846
01:46:32,819 --> 01:46:34,354
I don't understand.

1847
01:46:34,354 --> 01:46:35,422
If he's replacing like.

1848
01:46:35,422 --> 01:46:38,158
A yeah.

1849
01:46:38,158 --> 01:46:41,161
I was out.

1850
01:46:42,729 --> 01:46:44,531
You excuse excused.

1851
01:46:44,531 --> 01:46:47,701
Well,
I think we had another garage situation.

1852
01:46:47,768 --> 01:46:49,736
I don't remember the.

1853
01:46:49,736 --> 01:46:51,204
Within three feet of the string.

1854
01:46:51,204 --> 01:46:51,571
Yeah.

1855
01:46:51,571 --> 01:46:54,574
And I and that one,
I think with the same situation.

1856
01:46:54,574 --> 01:46:57,577
It was a complete tear down
and rebuild on the same footprint.

1857
01:46:57,577 --> 01:46:59,446
I don't think there was any changes in.

1858
01:46:59,446 --> 01:47:00,914
45 grown.

1859
01:47:00,914 --> 01:47:02,082
And and

1860
01:47:02,082 --> 01:47:06,953
and we were saying that because they're,
they're tearing it down to the level

1861
01:47:06,953 --> 01:47:10,457
and then rebuilding it is a new structure,
even if it is on the same footprint.

1862
01:47:10,457 --> 01:47:13,660
Because the foundation is being removed
to be certified.

1863
01:47:13,693 --> 01:47:15,762
Yeah. Okay. Right, right.

1864
01:47:16,897 --> 01:47:17,330
All right.

1865
01:47:17,330 --> 01:47:20,300
So you can sit there.

1866
01:47:20,300 --> 01:47:23,270
Is there anybody who wants to speak
on this in the public

1867
01:47:24,571 --> 01:47:26,807
seeing no hands, I will.

1868
01:47:26,807 --> 01:47:28,241
Do you have anything else you want to add?

1869
01:47:28,241 --> 01:47:29,176
I don't. Think so.

1870
01:47:29,176 --> 01:47:32,012
All right, then,
I shall close the public hearing.

1871
01:47:32,012 --> 01:47:34,815
Board motion or discussion?

1872
01:47:34,815 --> 01:47:37,818
I think it comes down to replacing.

1873
01:47:38,351 --> 01:47:41,955
I won't say the structure,
but one in poor condition

1874
01:47:41,955 --> 01:47:46,693
with a new structure in the same location
which is not conforming.

1875
01:47:47,928 --> 01:47:51,097
And it's if there was to make it

1876
01:47:51,131 --> 01:47:54,734
more conforming, it runs into a septic.

1877
01:47:54,734 --> 01:47:57,737
And is that is it a tank?

1878
01:47:57,838 --> 01:47:59,139
It's a small field.

1879
01:47:59,139 --> 01:48:00,340
Yeah, right.

1880
01:48:00,340 --> 01:48:01,475
It's a field.

1881
01:48:01,475 --> 01:48:04,478
So he doesn't have the option

1882
01:48:04,511 --> 01:48:07,814
of rebuilding in a conforming space.

1883
01:48:08,548 --> 01:48:10,150
It'd be no different than just.

1884
01:48:12,452 --> 01:48:14,454
Siding on the existing building
and whatever.

1885
01:48:14,454 --> 01:48:16,656
So we're not the broken foundation.

1886
01:48:16,656 --> 01:48:17,757
Right? Right, right.

1887
01:48:17,757 --> 01:48:20,760
So I don't see any.

1888
01:48:21,394 --> 01:48:23,663
Whatever it's

1889
01:48:23,663 --> 01:48:26,533
going through the criteria, but

1890
01:48:26,533 --> 01:48:30,170
I would make a motion to campus variance

1891
01:48:31,137 --> 01:48:34,374
again, going through the conditions
that typically would by

1892
01:48:35,308 --> 01:48:40,847
the granting would not be contrary
to public interest, because he's replacing

1893
01:48:40,847 --> 01:48:43,850
an existing structure,

1894
01:48:43,884 --> 01:48:46,820
basically like the light,

1895
01:48:46,820 --> 01:48:48,922
the spirit of the ordinance

1896
01:48:48,922 --> 01:48:52,859
wouldn't be observed again,
because he's replacing an existing

1897
01:48:53,159 --> 01:48:57,097
non-conforming,
but he's replacing it like polite.

1898
01:48:57,097 --> 01:49:00,100
He's not encroaching anymore.

1899
01:49:00,233 --> 01:49:03,236
Granting of the variance,

1900
01:49:03,737 --> 01:49:06,006
but do substantial justice.

1901
01:49:06,006 --> 01:49:10,310
For that reason, the ability
to make a repair and still maintain

1902
01:49:10,310 --> 01:49:13,580
that nonconformity,
but with a new building

1903
01:49:14,915 --> 01:49:17,017
for the following reasons.

1904
01:49:17,017 --> 01:49:21,454
The value of the surrounding properties
would not be diminished,

1905
01:49:21,721 --> 01:49:24,925
probably because a new structure
is a much better value

1906
01:49:24,958 --> 01:49:29,696
than an existing dilapidated
or poor condition structure.

1907
01:49:31,231 --> 01:49:34,634
The hardships
I think the hardships are again

1908
01:49:34,701 --> 01:49:38,672
within our zoning ordinance
to require the rebuilding

1909
01:49:40,273 --> 01:49:43,276
to to make it less

1910
01:49:44,644 --> 01:49:46,012
nonconforming.

1911
01:49:46,012 --> 01:49:49,149
He can't because of the layout
of the land.

1912
01:49:49,316 --> 01:49:50,550
He runs into a septic.

1913
01:49:50,550 --> 01:49:52,619
It's a small lot that large.

1914
01:49:52,619 --> 01:49:54,688
I would say the hardship is the lot size.

1915
01:49:54,688 --> 01:49:58,091
It's a very, very small
lot in the agricultural zone. Yes.

1916
01:49:58,391 --> 01:49:59,659
Nowhere below.

1917
01:49:59,659 --> 01:50:02,329
So again, it runs with the property.

1918
01:50:02,329 --> 01:50:04,097
It's not by his choice.

1919
01:50:04,097 --> 01:50:07,867
He's limited in what choices
he has to make it conforming or complying.

1920
01:50:07,934 --> 01:50:11,071
But therefore I think we should.

1921
01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:14,407
Second.

1922
01:50:14,407 --> 01:50:16,309
Second from Charlie.

1923
01:50:16,309 --> 01:50:17,877
Any discussion?

1924
01:50:17,877 --> 01:50:19,813
All in favor?

1925
01:50:19,813 --> 01:50:20,847
Opposed?

1926
01:50:20,847 --> 01:50:23,249
Motion carries.

1927
01:50:23,249 --> 01:50:25,051
You have your variance, sir.

1928
01:50:25,051 --> 01:50:25,852
Can I.

1929
01:50:25,852 --> 01:50:28,788
Can I ask a question?

1930
01:50:28,788 --> 01:50:31,791
30 days, subject to an appeal.

1931
01:50:32,559 --> 01:50:34,361
Is there a. Way for me to go?

1932
01:50:34,361 --> 01:50:37,030
Like if I find. As.

1933
01:50:37,030 --> 01:50:39,165
I excavate that. I have, like, two.

1934
01:50:39,165 --> 01:50:43,536
Feet of play
to work with towards that leach field?

1935
01:50:43,837 --> 01:50:44,804
Can I go

1936
01:50:46,206 --> 01:50:49,209
like 2 to 3ft?

1937
01:50:49,576 --> 01:50:51,211
I, I would, I would.

1938
01:50:51,211 --> 01:50:54,247
Miss variance
or is there a would there be more that.

1939
01:50:54,981 --> 01:50:58,952
The variance was like for like
so I would I,

1940
01:50:59,486 --> 01:51:03,189
I can't answer that because I'm
not the zoning enforcement officer.

1941
01:51:04,157 --> 01:51:07,327
But given the fact that in the past
we've always said

1942
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:11,398
like if if that's what the discussion is,
that's what it's supposed to be.

1943
01:51:11,731 --> 01:51:14,167
So I would.

1944
01:51:14,167 --> 01:51:17,771
Even though the
the variation that you might present

1945
01:51:18,071 --> 01:51:22,976
is a betterment less nonconforming,
you probably should come back

1946
01:51:22,976 --> 01:51:26,713
just for the record of new planets
in the discussion.

1947
01:51:26,913 --> 01:51:30,450
But again, really
it's a it's only administrators

1948
01:51:30,684 --> 01:51:33,687
officers decisions.

1949
01:51:38,058 --> 01:51:40,126
All right.

1950
01:51:40,126 --> 01:51:43,129
That one is all set.

1951
01:51:44,497 --> 01:51:46,032
I don't know if Jack will be available

1952
01:51:46,032 --> 01:51:49,035
after the meeting, but.

1953
01:51:49,769 --> 01:51:50,937
Yeah.

1954
01:51:50,937 --> 01:51:52,639
All right.

1955
01:51:52,639 --> 01:51:54,040
For this next

1956
01:51:55,442 --> 01:51:57,277
next hearing we

1957
01:51:57,277 --> 01:52:00,280
Kristen, you will be the voting alternate.

1958
01:52:01,581 --> 01:52:03,383
Jeffrey Ellen, applicant owner

1959
01:52:03,383 --> 01:52:06,219
is seeking variances
to allow for the replacement of stairs

1960
01:52:06,219 --> 01:52:09,789
on a single family home
with two decks and stairs on the front

1961
01:52:09,789 --> 01:52:14,728
and front side of the home, as well
as on the front slash middle of the home.

1962
01:52:14,761 --> 01:52:18,231
The proposed deck and stairs
on the front side of the home.

1963
01:52:18,398 --> 01:52:20,100
It's a lot of slashes here.

1964
01:52:20,100 --> 01:52:24,270
We'll we'll be approximately 21ft
from the property line,

1965
01:52:24,270 --> 01:52:28,808
and the proposed deck stairs on the front
middle of the home will be approximately

1966
01:52:28,842 --> 01:52:32,078
18ft from the property
from the front property line.

1967
01:52:32,178 --> 01:52:37,550
Both structures are required to have a
25ft front setback from the property line.

1968
01:52:37,550 --> 01:52:38,418
As perception.

1969
01:52:38,418 --> 01:52:43,389
4.3 the table of Dimensional Regulations
of the Goff Sound Zoning Ordinance.

1970
01:52:43,590 --> 01:52:49,229
The property is located at 48
Laurel Street, map 14, lot 49, Zoned

1971
01:52:49,229 --> 01:52:50,764
Residential two.

1972
01:52:50,764 --> 01:52:54,434
And I will entertain a motion
for reasonable impact.

1973
01:52:54,734 --> 01:52:58,004
Or no motion. There's no regional impact.

1974
01:52:58,071 --> 01:52:58,605
Second

1975
01:53:00,006 --> 01:53:00,974
then got beat out.

1976
01:53:00,974 --> 01:53:06,312
So motion by second from all in favor
I opposed.

1977
01:53:06,613 --> 01:53:08,715
Motion carries.

1978
01:53:08,715 --> 01:53:12,752
Hi, I'm Jeff Allen, the owner
of the property at 48 Laurel Street.

1979
01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:17,257
And we would like to replace our stone

1980
01:53:17,257 --> 01:53:20,260
steps with Trex decking.

1981
01:53:21,094 --> 01:53:24,097
And the footprint
is going to be a little bit larger

1982
01:53:24,097 --> 01:53:27,100
than they are now.

1983
01:53:31,070 --> 01:53:32,338
I've got pictures.

1984
01:53:32,338 --> 01:53:36,109
This is our current steps and cracks.

1985
01:53:38,178 --> 01:53:39,379
Damage.

1986
01:53:39,379 --> 01:53:43,650
And then we want to replace them with
this is the front of the house.

1987
01:53:45,018 --> 01:53:47,287
So if anybody on the he's
showing pictures on.

1988
01:53:47,287 --> 01:53:48,254
We have it in a packet.

1989
01:53:48,254 --> 01:53:50,356
I think these are some saying the one.

1990
01:53:50,356 --> 01:53:52,358
Oh they're the same ones. Okay.

1991
01:53:52,358 --> 01:53:54,661
More pictures. Okay. Yeah.

1992
01:53:54,661 --> 01:53:56,629
Just a little bit larger.

1993
01:53:56,629 --> 01:53:59,632
I'd like to expand the front.

1994
01:54:00,300 --> 01:54:03,336
The current stone
steps wouldn't fit within

1995
01:54:04,437 --> 01:54:06,472
the zoning regulations.

1996
01:54:06,472 --> 01:54:09,475
They must have had a variance
to build those.

1997
01:54:10,610 --> 01:54:11,911
Meaning that current

1998
01:54:11,911 --> 01:54:15,315
front steps are not code
compliant right now.

1999
01:54:15,582 --> 01:54:16,082
Compliant?

2000
01:54:16,082 --> 01:54:20,687
The the house is 25ft from the line,

2001
01:54:20,687 --> 01:54:23,690
and then the steps come out about five
feet in front of it.

2002
01:54:23,857 --> 01:54:24,924
Okay.

2003
01:54:24,924 --> 01:54:28,494
If the I'm just trying to say
if the steps were

2004
01:54:30,296 --> 01:54:33,433
if the steps met the setback requirement,

2005
01:54:33,433 --> 01:54:36,536
would they be compliant or are they

2006
01:54:36,836 --> 01:54:39,639
too small or you can't be.

2007
01:54:39,639 --> 01:54:41,574
There yet.

2008
01:54:41,574 --> 01:54:42,442
You have to be.

2009
01:54:42,442 --> 01:54:45,578
It has to be larger
if you're going to do it under.

2010
01:54:45,578 --> 01:54:47,881
Current code. Okay.

2011
01:54:47,881 --> 01:54:48,982
Okay.

2012
01:54:48,982 --> 01:54:51,951
That answers my question.

2013
01:55:01,494 --> 01:55:02,328
Got some damage

2014
01:55:02,328 --> 01:55:05,331
and I current steps
we have to do something.

2015
01:55:07,333 --> 01:55:11,070
Which of them do you use
as the primary entrance.

2016
01:55:11,070 --> 01:55:15,675
The one in the middle
of the front of the front of the house or.

2017
01:55:15,675 --> 01:55:17,877
The one side entrance?

2018
01:55:17,877 --> 01:55:20,713
The side entrance
was still in the driveway.

2019
01:55:20,713 --> 01:55:23,216
That's the one used for the main entrance.

2020
01:55:23,216 --> 01:55:24,217
The majority of the time.

2021
01:55:26,052 --> 01:55:27,553
Right.

2022
01:55:27,553 --> 01:55:30,556
Is that poured in place
or is it a precast drop?

2023
01:55:30,657 --> 01:55:34,127
The one on the right hand
side is a precast drop in.

2024
01:55:34,928 --> 01:55:38,531
The one on the front of the house
is poured in place.

2025
01:55:38,598 --> 01:55:39,699
Okay.

2026
01:55:39,699 --> 01:55:41,634
Both of them will have to be demolished.

2027
01:55:41,634 --> 01:55:42,669
That's gonna be fun.

2028
01:55:42,669 --> 01:55:45,672
Yeah.

2029
01:55:53,980 --> 01:55:56,950
We have spoken to our neighbors and.

2030
01:55:58,117 --> 01:55:58,618
Yeah.

2031
01:55:58,618 --> 01:55:59,686
Yes, there is an email.

2032
01:55:59,686 --> 01:56:02,689
That came in. Well,

2033
01:56:02,956 --> 01:56:06,859
it's part of the packet,
I think, but I'll read it just in case.

2034
01:56:07,527 --> 01:56:11,631
I came in on August 31st at 10 p.m.

2035
01:56:12,565 --> 01:56:15,635
from Michelle and Claire.

2036
01:56:16,569 --> 01:56:21,207
And that would be
the person who lives at 50 Laurel Street.

2037
01:56:21,407 --> 01:56:22,542
I am fine with the Allen

2038
01:56:22,542 --> 01:56:25,378
putting decking against their house
and in their front yard.

2039
01:56:25,378 --> 01:56:27,680
I am unable to attend September 1st.

2040
01:56:27,680 --> 01:56:32,719
Please consider this email to be in favor
of the project proposed at use 46.

2041
01:56:32,719 --> 01:56:35,521
But it's 48 Little Street.

2042
01:56:35,521 --> 01:56:37,156
Thank you Michele.

2043
01:56:40,193 --> 01:56:40,960
Okay.

2044
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:43,963
What is the hardship?

2045
01:56:44,330 --> 01:56:46,366
What's the hardship part of this?

2046
01:56:46,366 --> 01:56:48,234
That's always the tricky thing for us.

2047
01:56:48,234 --> 01:56:52,338
If we can understand what is it
that's unique about the property that

2048
01:56:53,740 --> 01:56:55,341
such. That.

2049
01:56:55,341 --> 01:57:00,313
The ordinance should
is an undue hardship on you?

2050
01:57:00,780 --> 01:57:03,649
Well, the house is 25ft.

2051
01:57:03,649 --> 01:57:06,652
The front of the house is 25ft
from the property line.

2052
01:57:07,020 --> 01:57:10,556
So anything that we build in front of
the house is going to be violating the

2053
01:57:12,058 --> 01:57:15,061
the ordinance.

2054
01:57:15,428 --> 01:57:16,195
Right.

2055
01:57:16,195 --> 01:57:17,730
And you do need steps to get out.

2056
01:57:17,730 --> 01:57:19,232
We need steps to get out.

2057
01:57:19,232 --> 01:57:22,235
That sounds like a hardship to me.

2058
01:57:24,270 --> 01:57:27,173
Did break it apart there.

2059
01:57:27,173 --> 01:57:29,709
Yeah. So the there really shifted.

2060
01:57:29,709 --> 01:57:34,414
We've lived there 13, 14 years before us.

2061
01:57:34,814 --> 01:57:36,482
They looked like they've really settled.

2062
01:57:36,482 --> 01:57:39,218
Somebody added another stair on top.

2063
01:57:39,218 --> 01:57:41,220
It's kind of hacked.

2064
01:57:41,220 --> 01:57:44,323
And now it's really getting kind of wonky.

2065
01:57:44,490 --> 01:57:49,796
And then the side ones are just straight
up broken by the winter, last winter.

2066
01:57:49,896 --> 01:57:51,697
There's a hardship right there.

2067
01:57:51,697 --> 01:57:57,003
So the board in place, one is settling
into the ground and brought, in other.

2068
01:57:57,003 --> 01:57:59,472
Words, quite a lot.

2069
01:57:59,472 --> 01:58:02,608
Jack the so by code they had

2070
01:58:02,775 --> 01:58:06,212
the steps have to be a specific size
for entry right? Yes.

2071
01:58:06,379 --> 01:58:07,780
For entry for them to open.

2072
01:58:07,780 --> 01:58:10,550
The door on both the, on
both the side and the front.

2073
01:58:10,550 --> 01:58:11,484
Correct. Okay.

2074
01:58:11,484 --> 01:58:14,454
So I mean the hardship is, is that

2075
01:58:14,454 --> 01:58:17,590
if we say no,
he has no way to enter exit his home?

2076
01:58:17,657 --> 01:58:19,859
That sounds like
a pretty big hardship to me.

2077
01:58:23,062 --> 01:58:26,032
Okay.

2078
01:58:27,233 --> 01:58:30,369
Just any further discussion.

2079
01:58:31,737 --> 01:58:32,138
Okay.

2080
01:58:32,138 --> 01:58:35,174
I will close the public hearing,
seeing that there's nobody

2081
01:58:35,174 --> 01:58:38,177
left in the audience.

2082
01:58:38,277 --> 01:58:39,679
Board discussion.

2083
01:58:39,679 --> 01:58:42,682
Motion.

2084
01:58:48,921 --> 01:58:51,924
Seems pretty straightforward to me.

2085
01:58:52,992 --> 01:58:55,995
Needs to be safe.

2086
01:58:58,364 --> 01:59:00,399
I don't have anybody jump in at one.

2087
01:59:00,399 --> 01:59:01,501
I will.

2088
01:59:01,501 --> 01:59:05,671
Make a motion to approve a variance for

2089
01:59:05,972 --> 01:59:09,242
48 Laurel Street map 14, lot 49,

2090
01:59:09,742 --> 01:59:13,513
to allow for the proposed deck stairs

2091
01:59:14,113 --> 01:59:16,716
in both the front and the side of the home

2092
01:59:16,716 --> 01:59:19,485
to be

2093
01:59:19,485 --> 01:59:21,621
to be repaired

2094
01:59:21,621 --> 01:59:24,590
as written in the request.

2095
01:59:26,192 --> 01:59:29,195
Going through the criterium,

2096
01:59:29,929 --> 01:59:32,932
which is in a different part of.

2097
01:59:34,834 --> 01:59:36,435
Granting
the variance would not be contrary

2098
01:59:36,435 --> 01:59:40,239
to the public interest, because
I don't believe anybody in the public

2099
01:59:40,239 --> 01:59:44,177
would really be upset about somebody
being able to enter or exit their home.

2100
01:59:44,710 --> 01:59:47,513
The spirit of the ordinance
is observed because.

2101
01:59:50,483 --> 01:59:53,719
I don't believe
that there is any spirit of the ordinance

2102
01:59:53,719 --> 01:59:56,722
that would deny somebody to fix something
that would allow them

2103
01:59:56,722 --> 01:59:57,657
entry into their home.

2104
01:59:57,657 --> 02:00:00,560
That has to violate the code.

2105
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:03,896
Granted, the variance would do
substantial justice because.

2106
02:00:05,932 --> 02:00:08,134
He can now have steps to enter

2107
02:00:08,134 --> 02:00:11,137
and safe steps to enter

2108
02:00:11,204 --> 02:00:15,541
and exit the home values of surrounding
properties will not be diminished.

2109
02:00:15,575 --> 02:00:18,578
I think that's a given, I think,

2110
02:00:19,212 --> 02:00:21,247
yeah, that's fine.

2111
02:00:21,247 --> 02:00:25,952
And then in terms of the hardship,
owing to special conditions

2112
02:00:25,952 --> 02:00:29,155
of the property that distinguish it
from other properties in the area,

2113
02:00:29,422 --> 02:00:33,693
the Nile of the variance
would be an unnecessary hardship because

2114
02:00:34,961 --> 02:00:37,430
there is no relationship
between the public

2115
02:00:37,430 --> 02:00:41,167
that that would have any impact on this
at all,

2116
02:00:42,168 --> 02:00:46,239
other than the fact
that the person cannot use their home

2117
02:00:46,472 --> 02:00:51,177
and the proposed uses a reasonable one
because they're stairs to enter the home.

2118
02:00:52,511 --> 02:00:53,379
Well.

2119
02:00:53,379 --> 02:00:56,249
There's the motion on the table.

2120
02:00:56,249 --> 02:00:58,117
Second from.

2121
02:00:58,117 --> 02:01:00,419
All in favor.

2122
02:01:00,419 --> 02:01:01,520
Opposed?

2123
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:04,523
Motion carries. Thank you.

2124
02:01:04,957 --> 02:01:07,960
I should have gone first.

2125
02:01:09,061 --> 02:01:09,462
I don't.

2126
02:01:09,462 --> 02:01:12,465
Make draw.

2127
02:01:12,765 --> 02:01:14,333
30 days.

2128
02:01:14,333 --> 02:01:17,403
Yes, there could be an appeal on that
within 30 days.

2129
02:01:17,403 --> 02:01:20,273
Just be aware. Of that.

2130
02:01:20,273 --> 02:01:23,276
A disgruntled neighbor.

2131
02:01:23,876 --> 02:01:24,777
All right.

2132
02:01:24,777 --> 02:01:26,479
Correspondence. Bruce.

2133
02:01:26,479 --> 02:01:28,648
Go ahead. Yes.

2134
02:01:28,648 --> 02:01:31,550
So again, I was tasked in the last meeting

2135
02:01:31,550 --> 02:01:35,488
to come up with some of the requests
for topics,

2136
02:01:36,322 --> 02:01:39,525
present topics from the zoning ordinance
that we feel

2137
02:01:39,525 --> 02:01:42,528
that the planning Board
to address into the zoning ordinance,

2138
02:01:43,529 --> 02:01:46,432
drafted up in the form of a memo

2139
02:01:46,432 --> 02:01:49,435
to the Planning Board
from the Zoning Board of Adjustment,

2140
02:01:49,568 --> 02:01:53,839
the subject is Items and topics
for zoning Ordinance amendments.

2141
02:01:53,839 --> 02:01:57,443
Consideration from the Zeba
to present to the Planning Board

2142
02:01:57,877 --> 02:02:00,513
one definition of multifamily.

2143
02:02:00,513 --> 02:02:03,516
I think we've asked that around a lot.

2144
02:02:03,816 --> 02:02:08,254
Two Adu requirements need to be the same
as the single family.

2145
02:02:08,521 --> 02:02:14,860
For example, strike
the section referenced 5.2.7,

2146
02:02:14,894 --> 02:02:18,931
which has a separate requirement
of satisfying requirements

2147
02:02:18,931 --> 02:02:22,168
above what
the single family does as a requirement.

2148
02:02:22,201 --> 02:02:23,536
And some of that might be.

2149
02:02:23,536 --> 02:02:26,405
I looked back at what we voted with.

2150
02:02:26,405 --> 02:02:28,140
Everything was happening last time.

2151
02:02:28,140 --> 02:02:32,011
We look back at what we voted in
in the spring for the elections,

2152
02:02:32,011 --> 02:02:35,981
and there was an update
to the definition of the Adu,

2153
02:02:36,182 --> 02:02:39,151
but it was voted no by the public.

2154
02:02:39,752 --> 02:02:42,521
So that might be why we're seeing so many,

2155
02:02:42,521 --> 02:02:45,524
is that there was please vote for this.

2156
02:02:45,958 --> 02:02:49,095
In order for this to be updated
in accordance with the state laws

2157
02:02:49,328 --> 02:02:51,130
and the public vote, to. Know.

2158
02:02:51,130 --> 02:02:52,198
Whether we still have.

2159
02:02:52,198 --> 02:02:54,100
But we still have to uphold
the state laws.

2160
02:02:54,100 --> 02:02:54,900
I know.

2161
02:02:54,900 --> 02:03:00,072
So that might be why the definition
of ADUs not including detached,

2162
02:03:00,072 --> 02:03:04,710
for instance, it's still doesn't
quite add up and I think that is why.

2163
02:03:04,777 --> 02:03:05,911
Okay.

2164
02:03:05,911 --> 02:03:08,247
So again,
we'll probably try it again this year.

2165
02:03:09,415 --> 02:03:09,682
I would.

2166
02:03:09,682 --> 02:03:11,884
Say yeah. Thank you for that.

2167
02:03:11,884 --> 02:03:16,956
So they might even have red lines
saved from last year that apply right.

2168
02:03:18,057 --> 02:03:21,060
Third topic was detached home occupations.

2169
02:03:21,293 --> 02:03:22,795
Again I throw this out.

2170
02:03:22,795 --> 02:03:23,796
Really the planning board

2171
02:03:23,796 --> 02:03:27,833
is the one that supposed
to craft the ordinance and the details.

2172
02:03:27,933 --> 02:03:31,570
Sometimes we can suggest some of that
to help make it easy for them.

2173
02:03:31,570 --> 02:03:34,373
But so for that instance,
and we've had a couple

2174
02:03:34,373 --> 02:03:38,177
that have detached home occupations in
the past, we've had to deal with that more

2175
02:03:38,177 --> 02:03:41,714
so as a variance because it's
not addressed in that loading ordinance.

2176
02:03:41,981 --> 02:03:45,818
So do we want to do different criteria
new classification,

2177
02:03:46,085 --> 02:03:50,489
cottage industries, another name for those
when they're outside of the home self.

2178
02:03:50,890 --> 02:03:53,893
Just food for the planning board
to run forward with.

2179
02:03:53,926 --> 02:03:54,994
But we don't have

2180
02:03:54,994 --> 02:03:58,898
something in the zoning ordinance,
so now they have to come in for a variance

2181
02:03:58,964 --> 02:04:03,936
if it's a detached home occupation,
multiple principal uses on one lot.

2182
02:04:04,103 --> 02:04:07,773
That's the new law
that says we can have mixed residential

2183
02:04:07,773 --> 02:04:10,443
in with a commercial development
going forward.

2184
02:04:10,443 --> 02:04:14,847
And that's still being cranked out
to sausage in the state level as well.

2185
02:04:14,980 --> 02:04:19,051
But we need to update
as to allow that kind of mixed use

2186
02:04:20,085 --> 02:04:22,922
construction business or use.

2187
02:04:22,922 --> 02:04:26,659
That's not a defined use,

2188
02:04:27,059 --> 02:04:31,363
but we need the definition details
in table of uses and or supplemental.

2189
02:04:31,397 --> 02:04:33,165
Otherwise they come in for a variance.

2190
02:04:33,165 --> 02:04:36,168
They want to do a construction business
because it's not defined.

2191
02:04:37,803 --> 02:04:41,173
Lastly rename the a the agricultural zone

2192
02:04:41,173 --> 02:04:45,077
to rural the roof zone
keeping all the uses dimensions.

2193
02:04:45,077 --> 02:04:50,216
As before, it's just a name change
to reflect the current actual use graph.

2194
02:04:50,282 --> 02:04:54,487
Sounds no longer an agricultural zoning
ordinance came in 63.

2195
02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:56,722
It was pretty much agricultural.

2196
02:04:56,722 --> 02:04:58,324
Was all the outlying.

2197
02:04:58,324 --> 02:05:02,361
Now it's pretty much rural,
but agriculture is still used.

2198
02:05:02,394 --> 02:05:03,963
That's permitted.

2199
02:05:03,963 --> 02:05:06,966
I think that would just clarify it
because it's always weird

2200
02:05:06,966 --> 02:05:08,033
when do an application.

2201
02:05:08,033 --> 02:05:09,235
It's in the agricultural zone.

2202
02:05:09,235 --> 02:05:11,470
It's not agricultural use.

2203
02:05:11,470 --> 02:05:12,638
It's it's a real use

2204
02:05:14,406 --> 02:05:14,940
district.

2205
02:05:14,940 --> 02:05:18,911
So with that, if there's any other topics
that the board

2206
02:05:18,911 --> 02:05:22,281
wants to bring to the planning board,
we can do that.

2207
02:05:22,481 --> 02:05:24,016
We should vote on this present

2208
02:05:24,016 --> 02:05:27,152
to the planning board
so they can get into their schedule

2209
02:05:27,152 --> 02:05:30,155
for getting amendments
to the zoning ordinance. So,

2210
02:05:32,124 --> 02:05:35,127
when does that have to get in by?

2211
02:05:36,562 --> 02:05:39,698
Is it before our next zoning
board meeting?

2212
02:05:41,967 --> 02:05:44,603
Just right after.

2213
02:05:44,603 --> 02:05:47,606
Okay.

2214
02:05:48,274 --> 02:05:52,444
I might suggest that we discuss this,

2215
02:05:52,444 --> 02:05:55,447
but hold off until next month
when things comes back.

2216
02:05:55,447 --> 02:05:57,383
And if she doesn't come back,
then we vote.

2217
02:05:57,383 --> 02:05:58,417
Then.

2218
02:05:58,417 --> 02:06:00,486
Because there would be a sitting, sitting.

2219
02:06:00,486 --> 02:06:03,689
Member of the board voting for that.

2220
02:06:03,722 --> 02:06:04,657
That's one of the things.

2221
02:06:04,657 --> 02:06:08,193
The other thing
was, given tonight's discussion,

2222
02:06:08,260 --> 02:06:12,731
we noticed that there's a absence
in definitions for school.

2223
02:06:13,098 --> 02:06:15,734
The school. School, kids.

2224
02:06:15,734 --> 02:06:17,102
Dinner. Garden.

2225
02:06:17,102 --> 02:06:22,541
I suggest that we add that to this list
so that they can define it based on state

2226
02:06:22,541 --> 02:06:26,912
definitions of those industries,
those pieces of the industry.

2227
02:06:26,979 --> 02:06:30,082
Especially because after school care
and summer

2228
02:06:30,082 --> 02:06:33,285
camps
and things like that are a growing need.

2229
02:06:33,319 --> 02:06:34,119
I think that there's

2230
02:06:34,119 --> 02:06:38,190
going to be more business owners
looking to open up businesses, and it's

2231
02:06:38,490 --> 02:06:42,561
kind of a black hole there for them,
and maybe we can make some ordinances,

2232
02:06:42,595 --> 02:06:44,563
just make it a. Little more clear.

2233
02:06:44,563 --> 02:06:49,435
Education definitions in our zoning
ordinance should mirror match.

2234
02:06:49,535 --> 02:06:52,471
They can kind of the same language.

2235
02:06:54,907 --> 02:06:55,808
Okay,

2236
02:06:55,808 --> 02:06:59,178
I'll craft another at that is another item
for the next meeting.

2237
02:06:59,211 --> 02:07:02,114
Yeah, there's infant toddler care.

2238
02:07:02,114 --> 02:07:03,048
School age.

2239
02:07:03,048 --> 02:07:06,051
Goes all the way up to G something that h.

2240
02:07:06,118 --> 02:07:09,488
And it's it's an adventure,
I'll tell you that.

2241
02:07:11,156 --> 02:07:13,959
It's sort of interesting is the state
has that form.

2242
02:07:13,959 --> 02:07:16,695
It's a zoning verification form.

2243
02:07:16,695 --> 02:07:18,597
But there's only three.

2244
02:07:18,597 --> 02:07:19,131
Right.

2245
02:07:19,131 --> 02:07:22,134
So but a through something

2246
02:07:23,035 --> 02:07:24,536
look at the group care.

2247
02:07:24,536 --> 02:07:26,672
Right

2248
02:07:26,672 --> 02:07:27,940
c c g.

2249
02:07:27,940 --> 02:07:29,274
At the very end.

2250
02:07:29,274 --> 02:07:29,608
Yeah.

2251
02:07:29,608 --> 02:07:35,114
So that's goes from infant care
all the way up to school

2252
02:07:35,280 --> 02:07:38,283
elementary
or whatever kindergarten and beyond.

2253
02:07:39,118 --> 02:07:39,918
That's why it's nice.

2254
02:07:39,918 --> 02:07:44,289
That's why it's hard for local definitions
to say yes, we comply with the state

2255
02:07:44,289 --> 02:07:48,694
if like ours only has up to five,
we don't have all the aces.

2256
02:07:48,727 --> 02:07:52,498
I mean, we go a through,
I mean, see through, whatever it is.

2257
02:07:52,831 --> 02:07:54,400
Three of them. Well,

2258
02:07:55,401 --> 02:07:57,770
we can group with this in some way.

2259
02:07:57,770 --> 02:08:00,239
Like it should speak the same language.

2260
02:08:00,239 --> 02:08:00,439
Yeah.

2261
02:08:00,439 --> 02:08:03,609
That that was what the point
that I was trying to make is that

2262
02:08:04,543 --> 02:08:07,880
because they there can be a lot of weeds
that grow very fast

2263
02:08:07,880 --> 02:08:10,883
because of those types of definitions.

2264
02:08:11,016 --> 02:08:14,019
And I think from the zoning ordinance,

2265
02:08:14,553 --> 02:08:18,657
an after school program might be different
than a full day program.

2266
02:08:18,657 --> 02:08:19,358
And I'm just thinking

2267
02:08:19,358 --> 02:08:23,462
planning board for traffic, whatever,
just other things of planning board stuff

2268
02:08:23,462 --> 02:08:25,497
that they need to deal with that differs

2269
02:08:25,497 --> 02:08:29,334
with each of those different
classifications, I would imagine somewhat,

2270
02:08:30,169 --> 02:08:33,472
but. Okay,

2271
02:08:33,839 --> 02:08:36,742
at least the topic is going to get
so we can get

2272
02:08:36,742 --> 02:08:39,712
marriage to that.

2273
02:08:39,778 --> 02:08:41,680
Educational institution.

2274
02:08:41,680 --> 02:08:44,650
Yeah. Preschool educational.

2275
02:08:44,650 --> 02:08:47,686
I think it's an Irish 170 that had it.

2276
02:08:50,322 --> 02:08:50,656
Was on.

2277
02:08:50,656 --> 02:08:51,223
That form.

2278
02:08:51,223 --> 02:08:54,193
Sorry sugar from that one. So yes.

2279
02:08:54,593 --> 02:08:57,663
Just somewhat related to
what Bruce is saying.

2280
02:08:57,663 --> 02:09:01,366
I suspect you all got that slide deck

2281
02:09:01,400 --> 02:09:05,204
that I had Patty send out to everybody
on the

2282
02:09:05,537 --> 02:09:09,541
that wonderful hour of the state
planning office similar tonight.

2283
02:09:09,541 --> 02:09:14,680
And the one thing that made me think,
and I think it's a long term development

2284
02:09:15,247 --> 02:09:18,717
thing, but the way that new law is crafted

2285
02:09:18,717 --> 02:09:22,121
as far as multifamily

2286
02:09:22,955 --> 02:09:25,958
in commercial zones,

2287
02:09:26,291 --> 02:09:29,762
what it's going to do,
I see the ghost town in the long run.

2288
02:09:29,762 --> 02:09:34,333
It's going to force
all multifamily development

2289
02:09:34,399 --> 02:09:37,736
basically into the 114 corridor,

2290
02:09:38,303 --> 02:09:42,141
because the requirements of the law
and there are two

2291
02:09:42,174 --> 02:09:46,845
that are in you've got to have
all the infrastructure pieces.

2292
02:09:46,845 --> 02:09:51,583
You've got to have the road, the water
and the sewer.

2293
02:09:51,917 --> 02:09:57,523
And in particular, because the question is
raised by when it was answered

2294
02:09:57,523 --> 02:10:01,293
by, I think there's no a Hodge
that I believe was the chief planner,

2295
02:10:02,661 --> 02:10:04,163
private sewer

2296
02:10:04,163 --> 02:10:07,800
built by a developer will not make it

2297
02:10:08,300 --> 02:10:12,037
doesn't fulfill the law.

2298
02:10:12,204 --> 02:10:16,208
You've got to have some sort
of a public sewer system,

2299
02:10:16,208 --> 02:10:20,212
whether it's tax supported
or whether it's like gloves,

2300
02:10:20,212 --> 02:10:24,850
town sewer districts where it is
supported by user fees.

2301
02:10:24,850 --> 02:10:27,352
It cannot be a private sewer system.

2302
02:10:27,352 --> 02:10:30,088
So what do we got here?

2303
02:10:30,088 --> 02:10:33,091
We got one. We got 114. Yeah.

2304
02:10:33,258 --> 02:10:37,129
It did have a provision for the developers
to pay for upgrades

2305
02:10:37,129 --> 02:10:42,434
to the public sewer system
and somehow give money towards that.

2306
02:10:42,501 --> 02:10:47,206
It also took away any rights for us
to mandate a conditional use permit.

2307
02:10:47,272 --> 02:10:50,776
Mixed use
first floor use is allowed by right

2308
02:10:50,809 --> 02:10:54,379
to have multifamily
in the commercial district.

2309
02:10:54,413 --> 02:10:55,047
But I.

2310
02:10:55,047 --> 02:10:58,050
I just. Have. The district.

2311
02:10:58,283 --> 02:11:01,153
Unfortunately,
I'm looking at the apartment

2312
02:11:01,153 --> 02:11:05,591
road that you have for
and seven think River road, River

2313
02:11:05,591 --> 02:11:09,561
road in Hooksett
heading up toward the Walmart or

2314
02:11:10,963 --> 02:11:13,932
I can't
remember the name of the street in bed,

2315
02:11:13,932 --> 02:11:17,135
but there's another line of apartment
buildings there.

2316
02:11:17,135 --> 02:11:18,737
And problem with Goffstown.

2317
02:11:18,737 --> 02:11:23,842
And this is the discussion that Denise
and I have had on a number of occasions.

2318
02:11:23,842 --> 02:11:28,447
The Goffstown has got very limited
commercial space.

2319
02:11:28,814 --> 02:11:32,517
We try like hell to preserve it,
and every time we do,

2320
02:11:32,885 --> 02:11:35,754
the state says story.

2321
02:11:35,754 --> 02:11:39,091
Oh, maybe that's something that
that should be brought up to the

2322
02:11:39,391 --> 02:11:41,360
to the planning boards as well.

2323
02:11:41,360 --> 02:11:44,329
Because if it needs to be rezoned

2324
02:11:44,329 --> 02:11:47,299
to protect that space,
that might be an option for the town.

2325
02:11:47,299 --> 02:11:49,368
If it really feels like that.

2326
02:11:49,368 --> 02:11:51,003
I mean, this is not anything

2327
02:11:51,003 --> 02:11:55,073
that's going to be tomorrow
or even next month or next year.

2328
02:11:55,073 --> 02:11:59,978
But, you know, if you look 5
or 10 years out, we've already seen it.

2329
02:12:00,012 --> 02:12:05,083
I think of the development that's going in
just to the east of the shell there,

2330
02:12:05,484 --> 02:12:10,022
that's been sitting there now
for 2 or 3 years or.

2331
02:12:10,022 --> 02:12:11,256
They're.

2332
02:12:11,256 --> 02:12:15,928
Out, you know, which is a commercial,
a commercial property.

2333
02:12:16,561 --> 02:12:20,999
You know, we're looking we're looking at
that kind of development up and down.

2334
02:12:20,999 --> 02:12:25,103
One or as far as the sewer line runs. So

2335
02:12:26,772 --> 02:12:27,139
yeah.

2336
02:12:27,139 --> 02:12:27,472
Okay.

2337
02:12:27,472 --> 02:12:31,143
That said, my piece
that I'm just thinking of what

2338
02:12:31,143 --> 02:12:34,112
the future of the town can look like.

2339
02:12:35,447 --> 02:12:35,647
Yeah.

2340
02:12:35,647 --> 02:12:41,119
The only buts are, is it has to have
the sewer and the water and the roads.

2341
02:12:41,119 --> 02:12:44,122
But that's the only thing
that can hold it up

2342
02:12:44,356 --> 02:12:45,958
because it's permitted by right now.

2343
02:12:45,958 --> 02:12:48,527
So it has to be public sewer.

2344
02:12:48,527 --> 02:12:50,562
Yeah. But that that was the caveat.

2345
02:12:50,562 --> 02:12:53,532
It has to. Be and it's immediately
effective.

2346
02:12:53,532 --> 02:12:54,766
It's not next year.

2347
02:12:54,766 --> 02:12:58,603
It's immediately
as of last this past July.

2348
02:12:59,771 --> 02:13:02,774
Yeah they've made it retroactive.

2349
02:13:02,774 --> 02:13:09,181
But yeah, developers in this town
have been trying for years along 114

2350
02:13:09,881 --> 02:13:14,052
only because that's where all
the infrastructure is already in place.

2351
02:13:14,519 --> 02:13:17,356
And if they're wrongfully denied,
they're allowed to seek

2352
02:13:17,356 --> 02:13:21,126
reasonable compensation
for their attorney's fees from the town's.

2353
02:13:22,127 --> 02:13:23,862
Hall, as before, the housing

2354
02:13:23,862 --> 02:13:28,633
Appeals Board again. So.

2355
02:13:33,472 --> 02:13:37,175
So because the gender says

2356
02:13:37,175 --> 02:13:41,079
that there should be a vote
to submit to the planning board.

2357
02:13:41,213 --> 02:13:45,817
I wouldn't say either we do that
or somebody make a motion. To.

2358
02:13:46,852 --> 02:13:47,519
Move that.

2359
02:13:47,519 --> 02:13:51,423
We table any vote on this

2360
02:13:52,991 --> 02:13:55,927
of topics for the planning board.

2361
02:13:55,927 --> 02:13:58,397
The next regular meeting.

2362
02:13:58,397 --> 02:14:01,400
For this vote, Davis,
you'll be the voting alternate.

2363
02:14:02,367 --> 02:14:04,536
I will second that.

2364
02:14:04,536 --> 02:14:05,904
So we have a motion on the table

2365
02:14:05,904 --> 02:14:09,674
to push this table,
this until the next meeting a second.

2366
02:14:09,808 --> 02:14:12,811
So all in favor I opposed.

2367
02:14:12,811 --> 02:14:15,814
Motion carries.

2368
02:14:16,415 --> 02:14:16,782
Okay.

2369
02:14:16,782 --> 02:14:20,252
So the next thing on the agenda
is the email from Joanne

2370
02:14:20,919 --> 02:14:23,355
regarding density calculations
in the zoning

2371
02:14:23,355 --> 02:14:26,358
ordinance.

2372
02:14:32,998 --> 02:14:36,001
Updating some of these.

2373
02:14:37,035 --> 02:14:37,936
Town okay.

2374
02:14:37,936 --> 02:14:39,504
That's right.

2375
02:14:39,504 --> 02:14:42,507
That's great.

2376
02:14:44,476 --> 02:14:46,244
For round down right up

2377
02:14:47,679 --> 02:14:50,682
for the area.

2378
02:15:21,480 --> 02:15:24,483
Comments or otherwise.

2379
02:15:25,283 --> 02:15:27,619
Then we shall just note that

2380
02:15:27,619 --> 02:15:30,622
those received from the board.

2381
02:15:30,722 --> 02:15:33,091
And then the last one was the one
I just found,

2382
02:15:33,091 --> 02:15:36,962
which is the update to the application
fees.

2383
02:15:39,164 --> 02:15:42,167
I think it's it's a vote to.

2384
02:15:43,835 --> 02:15:45,837
Agree with the staff recommendations

2385
02:15:45,837 --> 02:15:48,840
and on voting on the fees.

2386
02:15:49,107 --> 02:15:50,876
Yeah. I was going to ask if.

2387
02:15:50,876 --> 02:15:51,943
We can.

2388
02:15:51,943 --> 02:15:54,913
If we can do that.

2389
02:15:58,583 --> 02:15:59,284
Point of adjustment

2390
02:15:59,284 --> 02:16:02,721
has the authority to make the necessary
change to the application fees.

2391
02:16:03,321 --> 02:16:06,324
So I guess I guess we do have

2392
02:16:06,391 --> 02:16:09,394
to make changes to the fees.

2393
02:16:17,169 --> 02:16:18,770
The last sentence says please vote.

2394
02:16:18,770 --> 02:16:21,773
The staff's recommended.

2395
02:16:22,874 --> 02:16:25,243
Application fees.

2396
02:16:25,243 --> 02:16:28,813
I, I guess my only question of this was

2397
02:16:28,813 --> 02:16:32,517
it would have been nice
to see what the current costs are.

2398
02:16:33,818 --> 02:16:36,821
Not second page.

2399
02:16:37,055 --> 02:16:39,224
No, those are the fees.

2400
02:16:39,224 --> 02:16:40,091
That's not the case.

2401
02:16:40,091 --> 02:16:41,560
Oh, I see, just like it.

2402
02:16:41,560 --> 02:16:42,561
It's stating here

2403
02:16:42,561 --> 02:16:47,098
that to cover the cost of the union either
classified ads and postage.

2404
02:16:47,132 --> 02:16:49,100
I would like to see the costs.

2405
02:16:49,100 --> 02:16:51,770
So we know that okay.

2406
02:16:51,770 --> 02:16:53,838
This is a reasonable adjustment.

2407
02:16:53,838 --> 02:16:56,841
I mean not not that I doubt

2408
02:16:57,042 --> 02:16:59,678
not that I doubt them, but I think

2409
02:16:59,678 --> 02:17:03,315
it would make good fiduciary sense
to know the cost.

2410
02:17:03,682 --> 02:17:04,849
Patti.

2411
02:17:04,849 --> 02:17:06,351
Monday, next. Monday.

2412
02:17:06,351 --> 02:17:07,886
You'll be back on Monday. Yes.

2413
02:17:07,886 --> 02:17:13,758
So we want to know,
like what the union leader charges, right.

2414
02:17:13,758 --> 02:17:15,660
Because that goes into the fees. Right.

2415
02:17:15,660 --> 02:17:19,798
So if if we're saying that the we're going
to increase the fees

2416
02:17:19,798 --> 02:17:23,535
for a residential house by $75,

2417
02:17:23,802 --> 02:17:26,538
I would like to be able to justify why.

2418
02:17:26,538 --> 02:17:28,173
So if.

2419
02:17:28,173 --> 02:17:32,744
We're going up the dollar,
the notice on the butter fees $12.

2420
02:17:32,744 --> 02:17:37,115
Now a butter notification fee is $13.

2421
02:17:37,182 --> 02:17:42,220
I think that's what she's mentioning on
that line item is the union leader.

2422
02:17:42,921 --> 02:17:43,955
You know, notice

2423
02:17:45,557 --> 02:17:46,091
whatever that.

2424
02:17:46,091 --> 02:17:47,292
No. The notice in. The paper.

2425
02:17:47,292 --> 02:17:49,728
No. The other notification fee is.

2426
02:17:49,728 --> 02:17:50,395
Oh, maybe that's.

2427
02:17:50,395 --> 02:17:53,398
The sort of the post sending it out.

2428
02:17:53,932 --> 02:17:57,836
The I would imagine that the fees
for the union leader ad

2429
02:17:57,836 --> 02:18:00,872
and whatnot are part of the fee itself,

2430
02:18:01,039 --> 02:18:04,743
not the butter notification fees, I think.

2431
02:18:04,776 --> 02:18:08,980
I think I'd like to just see a little bit
more clarification on

2432
02:18:08,980 --> 02:18:13,385
on where the costs are coming from
to be able to justify to the public.

2433
02:18:13,418 --> 02:18:16,421
Hey, this is why
we're increasing the peace by this much.

2434
02:18:17,222 --> 02:18:18,823
I. I trust.

2435
02:18:18,823 --> 02:18:22,360
Staff like this is this is the minutia.

2436
02:18:22,360 --> 02:18:23,662
That.

2437
02:18:23,662 --> 02:18:26,264
You know, they figure this stuff out
and they do the math

2438
02:18:26,264 --> 02:18:29,234
and they take the time to prepare
and give it to us.

2439
02:18:29,234 --> 02:18:31,436
It's like, well, all.

2440
02:18:31,436 --> 02:18:33,605
All the way you have to look at

2441
02:18:34,606 --> 02:18:37,609
if it
were minor increases, but you've got.

2442
02:18:38,009 --> 02:18:41,212
These are significant. Doubling.

2443
02:18:41,246 --> 02:18:45,417
But you've got a doubling and residential
a you've got a doubling.

2444
02:18:45,984 --> 02:18:49,921
You have more than a doubling
in residential application

2445
02:18:49,921 --> 02:18:52,924
and a doubling and residential be.

2446
02:19:02,901 --> 02:19:03,301
Yeah.

2447
02:19:03,301 --> 02:19:08,406
So I mean, it's up to the board as to
how we, how we want to push this forward.

2448
02:19:08,440 --> 02:19:12,377
If we're going to vote to do that,
then that's fine.

2449
02:19:12,677 --> 02:19:15,447
So Charlie,
you'll be devoted in alternate.

2450
02:19:15,447 --> 02:19:19,684
I guess the other option
is to request that

2451
02:19:19,684 --> 02:19:21,086
there be a little bit more information.

2452
02:19:21,086 --> 02:19:22,921
If we wanted to vote on the next time.

2453
02:19:22,921 --> 02:19:26,758
I don't know if there's a deadline
that they have to be getting this

2454
02:19:26,825 --> 02:19:30,495
in, like by next month
or I think I'm sure it's, it's,

2455
02:19:31,863 --> 02:19:34,432
Well, I would imagine if anything
it would have.

2456
02:19:34,432 --> 02:19:37,168
Well, no, because we get to set them.

2457
02:19:37,168 --> 02:19:39,838
On the budget. It's part of the budget.

2458
02:19:39,838 --> 02:19:42,941
So when does that need to be
in that information?

2459
02:19:43,975 --> 02:19:47,078
Probably by October 1st.

2460
02:19:47,078 --> 02:19:49,914
First, second weekend. Okay.

2461
02:19:49,914 --> 02:19:52,684
Well if it I mean,
if it's the second week of October, then

2462
02:19:52,684 --> 02:19:55,720
we have a meeting in there,
be able to have the information

2463
02:19:56,488 --> 02:19:59,491
that that's just that's my my opinion.

2464
02:19:59,524 --> 02:20:02,727
And mine's more procedural.

2465
02:20:02,727 --> 02:20:08,933
I didn't think that had the authority
to set fees.

2466
02:20:08,967 --> 02:20:11,970
I had to have a public hearing.

2467
02:20:12,937 --> 02:20:13,605
Just like this.

2468
02:20:13,605 --> 02:20:18,543
Like we can just like
we can justify raising fees also.

2469
02:20:18,977 --> 02:20:20,478
To hold a public hearing.

2470
02:20:20,478 --> 02:20:23,481
Oh, they. Don't really know. They do not.

2471
02:20:23,615 --> 02:20:25,683
But I think I know

2472
02:20:25,683 --> 02:20:29,521
I, I always like to on the side
of letting people know things.

2473
02:20:29,554 --> 02:20:34,325
So you know, we I, I'm not sure I know
what the actual cost of these things are.

2474
02:20:34,359 --> 02:20:38,930
They just get pulled into a budget,
but they never really separate it out. So

2475
02:20:40,598 --> 02:20:41,766
I agree with you, Jason.

2476
02:20:41,766 --> 02:20:43,835
I'm you know, I. Trust.

2477
02:20:43,835 --> 02:20:45,904
That the staff. Has. Done the hard work.

2478
02:20:45,904 --> 02:20:49,040
I just want to see the math
that they put into it as well,

2479
02:20:49,073 --> 02:20:53,411
just so that we can feel assured
that when we make this decision,

2480
02:20:53,411 --> 02:20:58,583
if we do accept their proposed fees,
that we feel confident

2481
02:20:58,583 --> 02:21:02,120
that we've made the right decision
based on the work that they have for them.

2482
02:21:03,321 --> 02:21:05,256
Yeah. Definitely do the homework.

2483
02:21:05,256 --> 02:21:07,258
It's nothing. Against the tenant.

2484
02:21:07,258 --> 02:21:11,796
I just want to be able to have it in
the record that that we make it available.

2485
02:21:11,963 --> 02:21:13,731
So I think David instead. It.

2486
02:21:13,731 --> 02:21:16,968
Will have it for the minutes and. And.

2487
02:21:18,203 --> 02:21:21,206
I would say the

2488
02:21:21,339 --> 02:21:24,676
to see the cost of the things
that are specified here.

2489
02:21:24,809 --> 02:21:26,611
The union leader cost,

2490
02:21:28,112 --> 02:21:29,013
the postage.

2491
02:21:29,013 --> 02:21:32,450
To certify. The certification costs.

2492
02:21:32,517 --> 02:21:35,620
I mean, I, I know that the post office
has up their fees,

2493
02:21:35,753 --> 02:21:37,155
but I don't know to what extent.

2494
02:21:37,155 --> 02:21:40,291
I know there's something significant here.

2495
02:21:40,325 --> 02:21:45,697
Be a question to explore
how many people really like

2496
02:21:45,730 --> 02:21:48,733
getting a envelope

2497
02:21:49,534 --> 02:21:50,735
going on.

2498
02:21:50,735 --> 02:21:56,441
Is it is it possible that we could do,
like many organizations have done

2499
02:21:56,441 --> 02:21:59,611
and just go to electronic notification?

2500
02:22:00,211 --> 02:22:03,681
Or is it some,
or is it a legal requirement

2501
02:22:03,681 --> 02:22:06,651
that the board get it in hard copy?

2502
02:22:06,651 --> 02:22:08,553
I don't know the answer to that.

2503
02:22:08,553 --> 02:22:11,422
I mean, I get all of the PDF
electronically.

2504
02:22:11,422 --> 02:22:12,757
I mailed copy.

2505
02:22:12,757 --> 02:22:17,795
Because as I think all of us do, but
I mean, do we really need the hard copy?

2506
02:22:17,795 --> 02:22:20,131
Besides.

2507
02:22:20,131 --> 02:22:23,401
I mean, I look at this table, it's
almost like a building permit thing.

2508
02:22:23,401 --> 02:22:27,405
It's got residential, a one house
unit of duplex

2509
02:22:27,438 --> 02:22:30,475
residential,
be 2 or 3 houses, units or duplexes.

2510
02:22:30,542 --> 02:22:32,977
We don't have applications
like that, do we?

2511
02:22:34,312 --> 02:22:34,679
Well.

2512
02:22:34,679 --> 02:22:39,183
When the commercial industrial three
or residential, other.

2513
02:22:39,450 --> 02:22:42,453
Than they put in their applications,
they have to check off

2514
02:22:43,288 --> 02:22:45,557
what what it falls under.

2515
02:22:45,557 --> 02:22:46,758
To send the notifications.

2516
02:22:46,758 --> 02:22:49,928
They would have to send it
to each family in the multifamily.

2517
02:22:49,928 --> 02:22:53,331
So then everybody gets notified
and that I'm guessing.

2518
02:22:53,331 --> 02:22:54,732
But it would be nice to see.

2519
02:22:54,732 --> 02:22:57,902
But I'm guessing that that's
why it's more for each one

2520
02:22:57,902 --> 02:23:01,239
as well as if you need to notify

2521
02:23:01,839 --> 02:23:06,678
in a condo complex everyone in the condo
for something I don't know, even work.

2522
02:23:06,678 --> 02:23:07,245
That way.

2523
02:23:07,245 --> 02:23:09,981
Do you want to send it
to the manager of the.

2524
02:23:09,981 --> 02:23:12,050
Condo complex?

2525
02:23:12,050 --> 02:23:16,087
It's up to them to give it to the 13
or 18, 20, whatever hundred.

2526
02:23:17,622 --> 02:23:18,690
I would assume part. Of.

2527
02:23:18,690 --> 02:23:23,061
These fees is not only, but specifically
when we're looking at the residential

2528
02:23:23,094 --> 02:23:26,965
A, residential B commercial C categories,
I would assume part of

2529
02:23:26,965 --> 02:23:30,768
it is also factoring in the cost of staff
time with these applications.

2530
02:23:30,768 --> 02:23:32,737
A residential a one house

2531
02:23:32,737 --> 02:23:36,874
unit or duplex is going to be
a lot simpler than looking at if,

2532
02:23:37,175 --> 02:23:40,144
you know, since they've been so much
in the news around the country,

2533
02:23:40,144 --> 02:23:41,646
a data center is trying to come in

2534
02:23:41,646 --> 02:23:45,216
and has this huge thing
that they're trying to take away.

2535
02:23:45,249 --> 02:23:50,488
Some part of the agricultural district
that's going to take a lot more staff

2536
02:23:50,521 --> 02:23:54,659
time to review
a much more extensive application

2537
02:23:55,460 --> 02:23:59,564
that's going to fall under that,
that third category

2538
02:23:59,664 --> 02:24:03,635
that's going to have a higher cost
because it's going to require more time.

2539
02:24:04,168 --> 02:24:06,971
I can think of things if you've got

2540
02:24:06,971 --> 02:24:10,942
30 or 40 of butters versus a handful

2541
02:24:10,942 --> 02:24:15,113
for a residential project,
just the amount of time to develop,

2542
02:24:15,279 --> 02:24:19,317
develop
a mailing list of a Butters certification.

2543
02:24:19,384 --> 02:24:21,686
My guess would be
that that average is out.

2544
02:24:21,686 --> 02:24:26,424
You know, for the ones that have won
a butter versus those that have 300. But

2545
02:24:27,759 --> 02:24:29,694
I don't know

2546
02:24:29,694 --> 02:24:31,996
that that

2547
02:24:31,996 --> 02:24:34,799
I don't think
we need to have documentation

2548
02:24:34,799 --> 02:24:37,702
to like the minute of staff time.

2549
02:24:37,702 --> 02:24:40,505
Like I said, I'd just like to know
what the union leader classified

2550
02:24:40,505 --> 02:24:44,142
ad costs like, how did they go up
so that we can turn around and say, well,

2551
02:24:44,175 --> 02:24:48,413
somebody says, did the board
do a good job of allowing these fees?

2552
02:24:48,680 --> 02:24:50,515
We can say yes to.

2553
02:24:50,515 --> 02:24:50,815
All right.

2554
02:24:50,815 --> 02:24:53,818
Can I make can I make a motion on

2555
02:24:54,018 --> 02:24:57,922
I move that we table action

2556
02:24:57,922 --> 02:25:01,392
on these fees to the next regular meeting,

2557
02:25:01,859 --> 02:25:05,163
and that we request staff to provide

2558
02:25:05,863 --> 02:25:09,434
justification for the numbers, back up

2559
02:25:09,434 --> 02:25:12,770
materials for this for the next meeting.

2560
02:25:13,237 --> 02:25:14,972
I would. Say that.

2561
02:25:14,972 --> 02:25:17,341
You're about an alternate

2562
02:25:17,341 --> 02:25:19,811
I think I said. You yeah.

2563
02:25:19,811 --> 02:25:24,082
So, all right, so we have a motion
from Len, second from me.

2564
02:25:24,315 --> 02:25:26,617
All in favor? Aye.

2565
02:25:26,617 --> 02:25:29,620
Opposed? Motion carries. So.

2566
02:25:32,256 --> 02:25:35,259
So that is

2567
02:25:35,727 --> 02:25:36,360
agenda.

2568
02:25:36,360 --> 02:25:39,363
So do we have a motion to adjourn?

2569
02:25:39,931 --> 02:25:40,932
So move.

2570
02:25:40,932 --> 02:25:41,899
Move from Bruce.

2571
02:25:41,899 --> 02:25:44,702
Second from John.

2572
02:25:44,702 --> 02:25:47,338
Charlie,
you're the voting alternate. All in favor?

2573
02:25:47,338 --> 02:25:48,072
All right.

2574
02:25:48,072 --> 02:25:50,007
Closed. Motion carries.

2575
02:25:50,007 --> 02:25:51,109
Have a good evening, everyone.