1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:15,040 Uh welcome welcome to planning commission. Um commissioners present are 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:20,960 commissioner Ross Sandal Shenoda Humphre Williams and Aquedov. And then we also 3 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:26,000 have Commissioner Southwick and H and uh Commissioner Williams online. So uh 4 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:32,279 we'll go ahead and get started. Uh we'll begin with our pledge of allegiance by 5 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,279 Commissioner Aquedolf. Please stand 6 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,040 al 7 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:49,960 to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with 8 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,960 liberty and justice for all. 9 00:00:51,840 --> 00:01:02,000 » Thank you. Uh our first item on the agenda is to approve the agenda. 10 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:06,960 I make a motion to approve the agenda. >> Second. Uh I have a motion by 11 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:11,280 Commissioner Sandow and a second by Commissioner Hen. All in favor? I 12 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:16,720 » I >> uh now we'll go to item two, the consent 13 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:21,200 agendum. Is there any items on the agenda that commissioners would like to 14 00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:27,520 have pulled for discussion for this? Uh >> yes. I'd move that we pull items 2B and 15 00:01:24,479 --> 00:01:35,720 2D for separate discussions, please. Okay. Any others? Commissioners, 16 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,720 any for you commissioners online? 17 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:41,040 » Move to approve. >> No. 18 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:48,720 » Okay. Thank you. >> I'll move to approve the consent agenda 19 00:01:44,159 --> 00:01:50,640 items A and C. >> I get a second. 20 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:57,119 » Second. >> Okay. We have a motion for to approve 21 00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:00,719 the consent agendas A and C by Commissioner Shenoda and seconded by 22 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,520 Commissioner Okov. All in favor? >> I 23 00:02:01,439 --> 00:02:09,759 » I >> All right. Any oppose? 24 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:14,720 » Okay. Uh we will uh go ahead and uh I guess we'll have discussion on item 2B, 25 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:23,080 the encroachment permit for Lotus Forge ADA ramps in the rightway uh 2270 26 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:23,080 Lincoln Avenue. Uh Mr. Simpson. 27 00:02:34,581 --> 00:02:36,601 [clears throat] 28 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:45,640 » Yep. 29 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:53,440 All right. Chair, members of the commission, it is really good to be with 30 00:02:49,760 --> 00:03:01,280 you tonight. Um, so what we're looking at with this item 31 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:08,080 is request to have um ADA ramps, stairs, landings, and 32 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:14,000 railing extend into the Lincoln Avenue right away. And for that, the commission 33 00:03:11,599 --> 00:03:18,800 will be making a recommendation to the mayor. And actions would need to be 34 00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:23,519 based on if there's good cause for the encroachment and if there's going to be 35 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:28,400 issues that will cause the encroachment to interfere with use of the public way 36 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:36,799 or utilities. Um so we have some perspective. This uh 37 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:42,640 encroachment is related to um a project that um has come to the commission 38 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:50,959 before for some exceptions um for a mixed you a large mixeduse 39 00:03:46,959 --> 00:03:56,959 building consisting of 193 dwelling units, eight live work units, and over 40 00:03:54,159 --> 00:04:02,959 8,000 square feet of nonresidential space, commercial daycare, things of 41 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,959 that nature. 42 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:14,720 So the encroachment takes up a portion of the lot fronting Lincoln. Um 43 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:20,639 this kind of shows um the plat and that location. The extension is approximately 44 00:04:17,359 --> 00:04:29,440 4T into the rideway. Conditions of the site. Um something to 45 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:36,560 consider historically. Um the um Ogden City Plaza area has been fairly 46 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:44,639 underutilized for an urban core area. Um I know it had many many years ago had 47 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:52,800 some density to it but um during the um 70s 80s have a development of more of a 48 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:59,680 um strip mall kind of setting with lots of surface parking. Um, this proposal is 49 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:05,360 a a the pro that's associated with a project that would significantly 50 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:14,080 increase density, add um building height and mixed use um in line with the CN or 51 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:20,800 commercial entertainment zone that we have designated for this downtown area. 52 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:26,479 This is a perspective of that building. Um the colors on this are not exactly 53 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:32,240 right but um the form is this is just a rendering but kind of showing the 54 00:05:28,479 --> 00:05:40,800 layout. Um there is with the requirement um in the CNT the areas along um Lincoln 55 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:48,639 and uh 23rd Street are required to have nonresidential use portion. So, there's 56 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:54,720 this creation of um storefront areas um which would allow for um live work units 57 00:05:51,680 --> 00:06:00,880 and other non-residential uses to accommodate access into those 58 00:05:57,199 --> 00:06:09,680 non-residential areas. Um the project is having to incorporate um some ADA access 59 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:17,680 um due to elevation with with the uh with the building and the design. So the 60 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:25,039 request is to um basically install um approximately 10 um ramps and and 61 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:30,720 landings with railing um at various heights. Um they start at a lower 62 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:34,520 elevation at the corner and would slowly rise to the north. 63 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:44,720 Um this kind of shows the the grading as you can see from the bottom image. the 64 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:52,960 right is much less um encroachment and smaller need for grade change and then 65 00:06:48,479 --> 00:07:00,880 that increases further to the north end of the building. Um the grading is 66 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:08,160 consistent along 23rd Street. So no um additional ramps or access uh uh 67 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:16,319 entrances would be needed on the south side of the building. 68 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:21,520 So with that um staff finds feels that there is good cause to provide this 69 00:07:18,479 --> 00:07:29,599 access and interaction with the street has been reviewed by um city staff and 70 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:34,880 um just have all have found that it does meet the clearance requirements 71 00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:39,680 um and would not impact the right of way and are recommending approval subject to 72 00:07:37,599 --> 00:07:44,080 just completing the site plan review for the project. 73 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:48,240 » Okay. Thank you. Um maybe real quick, I I 74 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,919 failed to have the petitioner give him an opportunity to speak, so maybe I I 75 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:56,240 kind of jumped the gun there. Uh so does the petitioner have anything they'd like 76 00:07:53,120 --> 00:08:00,199 to add to Mr. Simpson's remarks before we discuss as a commission? 77 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:06,639 » Hello, my name is Adam Hughes with Lotus and my colleague here, Matt Ratali with 78 00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:11,199 Lotus as well. And we've done a lot of work on this project to uh try and 79 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:16,960 accommodate um the commercial requirement with the city and these live 80 00:08:13,039 --> 00:08:21,840 work units represent uh uh a component of that effort. Um, you know, when we 81 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:28,000 purchased the site, we recognized that this was a failed retail center. And um 82 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:32,320 by activating the site and bringing uh some pedestrian activity uh to the 83 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:38,800 downtown core, it will reestablish vibrancy uh and activity. And there's 84 00:08:36,719 --> 00:08:46,720 some complexities associated with this and um the encroachment uh will help us 85 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:52,320 to accommodate the ADA requirement for these commercial units. 86 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:57,200 » Okay. Anything you'd like to add? Yeah, just I think just in addition, we love 87 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:01,600 this this zone and we would love to activate this part of Lincoln and we 88 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:06,560 feel this project in in its current design achieves what the city intends 89 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:10,480 for this section and so yeah we we appreciate all your time especially 90 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,640 Joseph with and staff and uh yeah that's all. Thank you. 91 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,000 » Okay, thank you. Before you sit down, is there any questions from commission that 92 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:19,440 would like to ask the petitioner anything? 93 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,640 All right, see go ahead and have have a seat. So 94 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,279 » thank you. >> All right. Um, let's open it up for 95 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,880 discussion from the commission. Any >> your thoughts? Go ahead, Mr. Chair. 96 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:33,200 Commission. >> I have a question for Joe. 97 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:36,720 There's another project between the two schools that are on the same block. I 98 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,040 don't remember how many units there are on that project. Can you refresh my 99 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,240 memory? >> Um, I would have to look. I don't know 100 00:09:40,959 --> 00:09:44,399 off the top of my head. You're talking about the uh on the north end of the 101 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,959 block. >> Yeah. That burned down and was being 102 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:51,360 rebuilt again. Yeah. >> I think it's something like 97 or 98 103 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,320 units if I remember. I believe that's correct. 104 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:59,600 » Okay. So, we're going to have 300 units here and 100 units there, two schools, 105 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,600 and we still have a quarter of the block that needs redeveloped. We're going to 106 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:07,920 have a significant, >> well, we would hope a significant 107 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:11,440 increase in pedestrian traffic, bicycle traffic, and so forth. That is along 108 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:16,880 Lincoln 23rd and 22nd Street. >> Correct. 109 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:23,200 » Okay. I I don't want to be difficult. That's why I wanted this item separated. 110 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,839 The developer knew, planning knew going into this the ADA was going to be 111 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:30,480 required for commercial in the first place. Why was this not considered 112 00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:33,360 beforehand? Why are we coming and asking the public right ofway which is now 113 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:38,560 going to be narrowed with a significant increase in public traffic in the space 114 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:42,959 on a why was this not dealt with before when it was brought to us in the in the 115 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:47,680 original spot? Why are we now using public rightway that's going to create 116 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:52,720 an impediment to some degree for the amount of increased traffic we expect 117 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:57,519 when that should have been designed in the building to begin with? 118 00:10:54,959 --> 00:11:01,839 » Sure. And I I couldn't speak to all the factors that may have been involved that 119 00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:08,800 has led to this point. I do know that there have been um is is a project of 120 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:13,360 this magnitude and size. There's a review process that goes through and it 121 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:18,240 goes through all of the different departments and divisions at the city 122 00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:21,519 that have certain requirements that have to be met. 123 00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:28,560 » So the initial review that was done with the commission was before really all of 124 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:34,800 those um site review um were completed. So there was not complete engineered 125 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:39,440 drawings when we were it was anticipated with some of the exceptions to reduce 126 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:43,839 some of the non-residential square footage requirements on the main 127 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:48,800 level. Um but I [clears throat] know as we've gone through reviews and it's 128 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:52,480 determined certain requirements. I I would I'm and I'm just making an 129 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:56,959 assumption. And I'm assuming that it's it's something that has come up through 130 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:05,360 the site official site plan review process in determining to make um access 131 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:10,720 um ADA requirements met. Um and again I just point out that this has been 132 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:16,480 reviewed by city engineering by um all of the department staff and really um 133 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:24,240 we've found that the the clearances and the the access is not inhibited by the 134 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:27,200 by the uh encroachment. Um like you said it's about 4T. 135 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:31,440 » It's not presently inhibited. >> Mhm. you factored in how many people are 136 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:35,120 going to be on the street, how many are going to use cars to make that 137 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:39,360 determination in advance. I mean, I love the project, don't get me wrong. I think 138 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:44,160 that activation and the additional people in the downtown core is extremely 139 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:48,720 important, but I'm concerned that this wasn't addressed before it came to us to 140 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:52,320 begin with. And I and I would have to defer to the the engine because it's 141 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:57,360 heav he heavily weighs on the engineering department the traffic 142 00:12:54,000 --> 00:13:03,920 engineer to evaluate um accessibility and needs of the rightway space like I 143 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:10,880 could just defer to the review of the project which does 144 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:15,120 it again it it finds that it wouldn't impede um the pedestrian access and 145 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:20,480 would comply. >> Okay. Thank you sir. Yeah. 146 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:21,440 » All right. Any other questions from commissioners? 147 00:13:20,959 --> 00:13:26,800 » Vice chair. >> Mr. Sh. 148 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:30,680 » So 4 feet of encroachment leaves how many feet of rightway 149 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:39,600 » minus the trees. >> I I don't know the exact distance. Um I 150 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:45,519 know the rideways are pretty large in this area. Some areas are um sidewalks I 151 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:51,920 believe are probably around 12 to 14 feet is what I would guess. So 152 00:13:49,839 --> 00:13:54,639 » what's that? >> Yeah, that's what I suspected. 9 and 10 153 00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:58,720 ft >> is left for 154 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:05,120 » That's right. And [clears throat] does the does the encroachment 155 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:10,480 um is does granting the encroachment on the ground level 156 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:14,639 um include upper levels as well or will they have to come back if they want that 157 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:19,760 » they would have to come back and that was evaluated. There was some question 158 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:23,760 of whether balconies would be one of those things but they are not. Those 159 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:31,120 balconies actually are recessed into the building. So the only encroachment that 160 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:36,079 would be be requested is these 10 um ADA and stair 161 00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:42,839 access points. I mean, encroachment is 162 00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:42,839 is 163 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:51,920 the the the public rightway belongs to the public 164 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:57,199 » and we're considering whether or not um a property owner can 165 00:14:54,800 --> 00:15:01,680 take away some of that public right away. 166 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:07,600 » Yeah. And I I guess the point of view and that it's discussed in the staff 167 00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:12,720 report um would be that you know having these encroach provide access to 168 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:18,320 multiple entrances along the rightway and so it's it's provides a good 169 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:24,800 interaction and access accessibility between directly between the sidewalk 170 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:29,199 and the building itself. So, 171 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,160 » chair, I have a question. >> Go ahead. 172 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:37,120 » Um, on the picture that's up here right now, it looks like you have like a drop 173 00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:41,680 off zone. In that drop off zone area with an encroachment right next to it, 174 00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:45,760 what space are we going to have there? Do you see that? Like the darker area 175 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,519 right off the road that almost looks like part of the road. Is that still 176 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:54,240 going to be there? Because if you have an encroachment right there and that 177 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:59,759 comes in as well, that could be awfully narrow. 178 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:02,160 » I'm not aware of a drop off zone on the street. 179 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,560 » I might be reading it. I don't know what that darker area is. 180 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,720 » That's like the approach. >> It's the approach has to be removed. 181 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,480 There is there's an existing approach there. 182 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,839 » Okay. So, that'll go that won't be there. 183 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,199 » Yep. >> Okay. 184 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,120 » What's that? >> That that's correct. So, Jeremy Draper 185 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:21,759 with Reven Associates had here for the project. So that that gray area that is 186 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:26,480 an existing approach that's going to be removed and replaced with sidewalk. 187 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:30,720 » Thank you. >> Okay. 188 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:34,800 Any other comments or questions? Commissioners, 189 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:40,196 any comments or questions online? Commissioner Southwick or Williams? 190 00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:44,560 » Chair. I had a question. Um [clears throat] 191 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:48,880 so these are stairs and walkways being added. Is this mainly just due to an 192 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:53,040 elevation difference? Um, and is that not 193 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:57,759 » Hi, let the engineer come up. >> Joe deferred real quick. 194 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,440 » Yes. So, this is a result of an elevation difference. Uh, just with the 195 00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:05,839 size of the building, the location of it. Um, the southeast corner of our 196 00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:08,640 building is a high spot and as we go around the corner up to the northwest, 197 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:13,360 there's about a foot and a half difference in there. We've worked with 198 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:17,760 the architect to lower some of these units internally as much as we could. 199 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:21,199 That's why, you know, this very northwest 200 00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:25,199 unit does not have a ramp because we're actually able to lower that inside the 201 00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:30,480 building and still maintain ADA compliance inside the building for 202 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:35,840 current circulation as well as outside. These units here as well as the main 203 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:40,640 entrance. Uh we did uh go with the ramp just because we couldn't maintain ADA 204 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:43,840 access inside the building that we needed to um at the level 205 00:17:42,422 --> 00:17:49,360 [clears throat] that we needed to as well as tie into the existing sidewalk. 206 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:54,559 » Okay. Thank you. >> Y 207 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:57,559 any other comments question? 208 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,559 This kind of seems like one of those that we progressed so far and we run 209 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:07,360 into an error and it fits within the code and the well the intent of the code 210 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:11,440 » some extent. So >> yes, but have you ever walked any of 211 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:16,240 those blocks after the 24th parade or the Christmas parade or the I mean 212 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,880 people on Grant Avenue alone, which is made for pedestrian walkway, they're 213 00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:23,600 still all over the street because there's nowhere near enough width in the 214 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:27,919 sidewalk already for that. I I presented that argument la last commission meeting 215 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,640 with the trees and stuff but >> so 216 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:34,320 » it does give you the access though I guess and but 217 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:38,160 » could move the building four feet back too. Could you chair 218 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:43,679 » when commission >> could the encroachment be decreased if 219 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:51,880 the approach was not perpendicular but or or is it 220 00:18:45,919 --> 00:18:51,880 already um at a at an angle 221 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:04,480 » parallel? >> Could you repeat that? So the 222 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:10,720 encroachment um stairs or railing is it perpendicular to the entrance or is it 223 00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:14,480 um at an angle? >> Yeah. So the ramps themselves are 224 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:19,360 actually parallel to the building. That way we can minimize the amount of 225 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:22,960 encroachment into the rightway. Uh we would work with staff. Originally did 226 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:28,000 have additional steps coming further into the rightway and working with staff 227 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:32,559 we actually adjusted that design. of the stairs were also parallel to the 228 00:19:29,679 --> 00:19:38,000 building to minimize that encroachment. Uh with the shape of the building, we 229 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:44,280 can't really get it any closer to it and still maintain the accessible access to 230 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,280 the doorways. 231 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:50,160 » Okay. Any other comments, remarks, or 232 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:55,039 questions? >> My only question would be, are they ADA 233 00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:59,919 accessible in the back? Do they have to be both? They they do have to be both 234 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:04,240 because it in the backside that provides the access into the building itself. 235 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:08,559 » And so with the depth of these particular units, we weren't able to get 236 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:13,280 ramp inside the unit and it was also ADA compliant that didn't just eat up all 237 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,200 the space inside the inside the unit itself, 238 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:21,120 » right? >> That's what tightens the space up that 239 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:25,679 requirement for the ADA. So any comments from commissioners online? 240 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,480 All right. >> No comment from me. I don't have a 241 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,840 comment. >> Sure. Just just a clarification 242 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:36,080 question. >> Is this a building that's already 243 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:39,840 constructed or is this is a a proposed construction? 244 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:43,840 » Proposed. >> Proposed. 245 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:48,720 » Yeah. Proposed. >> Yeah. Rick, that it is a proposed 246 00:20:45,919 --> 00:20:52,880 building um that's currently uh completing a site and construction plan 247 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:58,400 review. So, >> okay. So, well, and these ADA issues 248 00:20:56,159 --> 00:21:02,640 arose through those reviews. >> Well, what one of the other 249 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:06,720 commissioners uh raised, I mean, given the fact I my initial thought was it was 250 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:11,760 the building that was already under construction. Uh given the fact that 251 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:17,760 it's not constructed, one of the other commissioners asked a question I don't 252 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:23,679 think was was answered. Is it possible to set the building back farther from 253 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:29,360 the street? Is there room in the foot uh in the parcel to do that and and 254 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:33,679 maintain uh the rightway or is this the only option? 255 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:39,600 » So our downtown zoning codes actually have a zero foot requirement for a 256 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:45,440 certain percentage of the building along the street and so you would have to give 257 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:51,360 an exception to shift the building back further. it actually complies with the 258 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:56,880 code by being at at the sidewalk. And that's again the intent is to have close 259 00:21:54,640 --> 00:22:03,440 proximity and interaction between the public rideway space and and the 260 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:09,120 building itself. Um I think there would be a lot more concern if the walkway 261 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:18,120 areas were narrower. Um but where there is you know the 9 to 10 ft of of space 262 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,120 we feel um that would be sufficient 263 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,480 » to the >> and that's to the tree great. Yeah. 264 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,320 » Okay. >> Okay. 265 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:27,600 » Okay. >> So the tree isn't taking up part of that 266 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,000 9 ft. >> So 267 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,080 » no. So you got a little extra. So 268 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:36,320 » okay >> you walk under if you're short. 269 00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:44,240 » That's it. All right. Any other comments or questions? 270 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,840 Any from commissioners online? All right. 271 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,360 » No, you have a >> motion. 272 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,400 » Finding that there is good cause for the encroachment and that the encroachment 273 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:57,520 will not interfere with the use of a public w public way or utilities with 274 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:02,480 the permit being issued concurrently with the site plan review approval. Um I 275 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:06,240 forgot the address. It's an encroachment permit to allow ADA ramps, stairs, 276 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:12,080 landings, and railings for the new Lotus Ford mixeduse building to extend in the 277 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:16,080 Lincoln Avenue right away at 2270 Lincoln Avenue. Um, I motion to 278 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,280 recommend approval of the proposed encroachment permit subject to the 279 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:24,320 permit being issued concurrently with the site plan review approval. 280 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:28,640 » I'll second. I got a motion by Commissioner Sandow and a second by 281 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:33,120 Commissioner Shenoda. This roll call vote. Uh, Miss Bamo. 282 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:35,200 » Commissioner Almadov, >> yes. 283 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,919 » Commissioner Humphre, >> no. 284 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,880 » Commissioner Ross, >> yes. 285 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:46,520 » Commissioner Sando, >> yes. 286 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,520 Commissioner Southwick, 287 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:56,039 » no. >> Commissioner Williams, 288 00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:56,039 » no. 289 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,480 Commissioner Shenoda. >> No. 290 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:07,600 » Okay. So, that doesn't pass, right? Correct. So, all right. Um, I guess 291 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:12,400 we'll go back to the drawing board, uh, work with planning staff and, uh, see 292 00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:15,039 what you can do. >> Uh, 293 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:18,000 » you want them to explain their no votes? >> Yeah. Do you want to? 294 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:22,080 » So, the next step would actually be going to the mayor for what you're 295 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,760 making as a recommendation. >> Okay. So, Okay. So, we'll go to the 296 00:24:23,919 --> 00:24:33,440 mayor as a recommendation that we denied it. But, uh, do you want we start online 297 00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:37,919 uh for the nos and we'll finish up with the ones here. You want you want to 298 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:44,960 explain why you chose no? >> Yeah. I uh, chair, I given the fact it's 299 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:50,799 a proposed building, uh, I I think it's it's problematic to have that many 300 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:57,039 encroachments in there. And I I think the the clean, simple solution is to set 301 00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:00,880 the building back several feet. >> All right. Thanks, Commissioner 302 00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:04,640 Southway. Commissioner Williams. >> Um I agree because it's a proposed 303 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:10,080 building and it's not currently under construction. I think that they could um 304 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:16,080 use their own land instead of taking land from the public for their project. 305 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:20,480 » Thank you. All right, Commissioner. I've made the same argument on uh balconies 306 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:26,880 encroaching into the public right away. I just think um owners of the properties 307 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:34,880 need to plan their developments better not to encroach on on a area that's 308 00:25:32,159 --> 00:25:41,520 meant for the public that's owned by the public. Okay, Commissioner Humphre. 309 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:46,720 » Yeah, it's a proposed facility and not to be difficult, but once it's up, we 310 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:50,640 can't fix it. And I'd like to ensure that along an entire block of space with 311 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:55,520 that many units and that many people which I assume the developer is going to 312 00:25:52,880 --> 00:26:01,039 do well with at least I hope they will pencils well. I'd like to make sure that 313 00:25:57,679 --> 00:26:04,880 we did not create an environment that might be less than conducive because we 314 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:08,720 can't fix it after the fact. I'd like to fix it beforehand. 315 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,679 » Thank you for everyone's comments and uh that will go on to the mayor's 316 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:16,640 recommendation. We wish you the best on your project. 317 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:21,440 Uh we'll now discuss the uh the consent item D that was pulled. Conditional use 318 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:26,960 permit uh contractor services at 121 North 8:30 West. Um 319 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,760 we want to hear from the petitioner first. Looks like Zack 320 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:34,720 Zack. >> Zack. Yep. 321 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:39,600 » Zack. [laughter] >> I'm not sure if he's the applicant is 322 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:46,840 here, but um >> is he online, Joe? 323 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,840 is the petitioner online. 324 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,880 » All right. >> Okay. 325 00:26:53,120 --> 00:27:00,240 » Well, we'll go ahead with staff's report and go from there. 326 00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:06,000 » Sure. Um, so what you're looking at is a request for a conditional use permit to 327 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:12,880 allow a contractor services office at the BDO which is located exactly at 121 328 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:18,960 North A30 West. Um, so it is in an existing warehouse style structure but 329 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:23,679 they're using the lower half of the existing structure. So the 330 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:28,720 considerations for the motion would be does the proposed use create detrimental 331 00:27:25,919 --> 00:27:32,640 impacts that cannot be mitigated? Is the project consistent with the general plan 332 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:37,120 and if the use and the site is compatible with the surrounding 333 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:42,559 development. So to go over some context for the 334 00:27:39,679 --> 00:27:50,240 location of the property, this is in the DDR zone u best known as BDO and it is 335 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:54,960 as you can see in the top right image it is an existing structure. So they would 336 00:27:52,080 --> 00:28:01,200 be using the southern half of the existing structure for their uh 337 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:05,840 landscape offices. And the applicant did mention the different kinds of 338 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:10,799 day-to-day activities that would be done in this location. But uh we're going to 339 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:16,399 look at that in the next slides. But quickly to run through the location. So 340 00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:23,440 it is part of the BDO in a property size of 7.29 acres. The actual building size 341 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:29,520 that he would be taking over is 2500 and it is proposed as a contractor 342 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:34,640 services offices. So the request is the applicant Zach 343 00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:39,600 from Mountainside Landscapes is requesting approval for the conditional 344 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:46,919 use permit to allow contractor services use for business storage located at 121 345 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,919 North 830 West 346 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:53,760 and uh as I talked before about the different day-to-day activities and the 347 00:28:52,159 --> 00:28:59,760 actual use that would be happening at this location as for the applicant was 348 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:06,159 more or less to do with the storage of his equipment and other small machinery 349 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:12,399 inside the building. And the applicant did mention that there would not be any 350 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:16,240 outside storage or anything where they would have to use the outer 351 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:21,440 parts of the building and the only thing which is in the scope of work happening 352 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:29,760 outside is the proposed parking on the east side of the building. So, yep. 353 00:29:27,679 --> 00:29:35,600 And the factors for consideration in this project would be detrimental to the 354 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:39,919 property or persons since it does not produce any noise, odor or light. It is 355 00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:44,559 not detrimental to the health, safety and general welfare of the public. And 356 00:29:42,399 --> 00:29:49,600 the other consideration would be if it aligns with the general plan. So when we 357 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:58,640 look at the defense depot district plan, it few of those aims and redevelopment 358 00:29:55,679 --> 00:30:04,240 goals do align with the proposal which is redevelopment of the DDO district 359 00:30:01,919 --> 00:30:08,480 plan and to allow businesses to reuse the existing structures. And when it 360 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:12,159 comes to the design compatibility since they would be using the existing 361 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:17,200 structures so there is no expanding of the footprint and the only new thing 362 00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:22,880 happening would be the proposal of new parking which is five stalls. 363 00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:28,640 So it would be 2,500 ft². So they would need one stall for every 500 ft². So 364 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:33,039 five stalls in that case. And the use compatibility. So they would 365 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:38,080 be using the existing structure rather than new one. And the hours of operation 366 00:30:35,679 --> 00:30:42,000 proposed are Monday to Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and no outdoor 367 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:47,200 operations. And coming to the compliance of 368 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:52,000 regulations, the different um reviewing officials of the city did review the 369 00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:56,880 project and they all have approved it. So I would say it is uh in compliance 370 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:02,799 with the regulations of the zoning ordinance and the BDO. and adding on 371 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:08,720 even the buyer company has given acknowledgement that they are good with 372 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:13,679 the new proposal. Okay. So yeah based on that the staff recommends approval for 373 00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:19,440 the proposed conditional use permit and the consistency of general plan for the 374 00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:24,480 use of contractor services office. So in the findings we did find that it does 375 00:31:21,679 --> 00:31:30,080 meet the conditional use permit uh criteria under the Ogden code 376 00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:37,279 and it is also consistent with the general plan and the DDO plan. 377 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:41,760 Okay. All right. Thank you. Well, this is a conditional use permit that meets 378 00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:45,360 that requirement. I guess we only can talk about the conditions of of 379 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,559 occupancy. So, uh we'll open discussion up to commissioners. You have any 380 00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:53,279 comments? Commissioner Humphre. >> Mr. Chair, yes, I have no problem with 381 00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:57,200 this project at all. I just want to make sure that we add the sunset clause for 382 00:31:55,279 --> 00:32:01,760 if the business goes out of business or moves that another business that might 383 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,200 qualify for a conditional use permit would at that point in time have to come 384 00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:10,399 before the commission again, whether that's 5 years or 20 years, etc. I don't 385 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:14,159 want a soft zoning change permanently in any area with a conditional use permit. 386 00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:17,519 If we can have the sunset clause, I'm good with everything. 387 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,240 » Okay. Any other comments from commissioners? 388 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,519 » I'm just wondering what the norm is on something like that. So, if we do do a 389 00:32:21,919 --> 00:32:26,799 conditional use permit and a company goes out of business, does it 390 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:30,880 automatically sunset or is that something we have to put in here? 391 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:36,240 » Well, we have to add it. The conditional use permit is permanent. 392 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,080 » So, it's permanent to the building, not the company. 393 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:41,760 » Correct. >> Oh, okay. 394 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:45,039 » So, we're getting uh planning that barn. You shaking your head? Yes. 395 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,760 » Yeah, that's correct. the conditional use permit uh is goes to the use and not 396 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,720 to the particular >> owner tenant or stuff. So yeah, it 397 00:32:51,679 --> 00:32:56,640 passes on >> and it's my request that we don't do 398 00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:59,120 soft zoning changes that don't go through everyone else's permission 399 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,039 without >> creating a sunset clause. 400 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,760 » Yeah, >> we are changing the traditional use of a 401 00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:09,120 space. We don't want to do that permanently anymore. 402 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:12,840 » Just add that. >> Uh any other comments? 403 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:24,880 Um, chair is I mean yeah with uh I mean with legal that that's is that fine to 404 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:28,720 that's a fair condition to add. >> Yeah, you can add that. 405 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,760 » We did to the church. >> We did do the last one in our last 406 00:33:30,159 --> 00:33:34,480 meeting. So we're being consistent with what we've kind of decided to try to do 407 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,000 moving forward. Correct. >> Right. 408 00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:39,519 » Which is why you bring it up. >> Yes, sir. That's why I brought it up 409 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,640 because we did that on the >> I can't remember the name of the 410 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:47,200 business but the church on the church. >> Yeah. Yeah. What's the process for the 411 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:51,279 new owner to rem remove the conditional use? 412 00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:55,760 » It just happens automatically and they would have to revert to the existing the 413 00:33:53,600 --> 00:34:01,760 original use. And if someone wants a different use, they'd have to apply for 414 00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:06,799 a new conditional permit at that time. >> The use would continue and unless it was 415 00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:10,560 discontinued for more than a year, then the conditional use would be lost. Mhm. 416 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:17,599 So, >> so what are some of the 417 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:24,399 conditions for revoking the permit if if um if a neighbor, let's say the owner or 418 00:34:21,919 --> 00:34:30,240 the um the owner started parking the vehicles 419 00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:34,520 and machinery outside, would that that would be detrimental to the 420 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:43,760 or they started um doing service on the vehicles outside then that would be 421 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:48,159 detrimental to the um property and that would be a cause for revoking 422 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,919 the conditional use permit. >> If they violate any of the conditions on 423 00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:57,440 that conditional use permit then yes it can be brought before the administration 424 00:34:54,240 --> 00:35:03,520 can bring it before the the commission for review of the of the conditions and 425 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:07,599 potential revocation of that uh per the conditional use permit. 426 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:12,079 » Thank you sir. And the conditions include 427 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:16,640 um no no parking out I mean no uh machinery outside and everything going 428 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,640 on inside. Those are part of the conditions. 429 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,920 » If those are the conditions listed on the permit, that is correct. And so if 430 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,760 they violate though any one of those conditions, it can be brought before the 431 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:29,520 before the planning commission for review and potential revocation. 432 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:33,520 » James, would that come through code enforcement? they'd ex you know when if 433 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,720 a complaint was called in it would be investigated kind of by them and then or 434 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,400 how would that how would we come to know that 435 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,520 » typically it would come through the community and economic development 436 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:45,680 department probably that the director but uh you know if it comes through code 437 00:35:43,839 --> 00:35:49,359 enforcement if even if it's mentioned to planning so to to Joe Barton they could 438 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,720 actually discuss it with the community economic development director and he 439 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,000 would probably be the one to to put it on the agenda. 440 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,079 » Okay that's your question commissioner. 441 00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:04,920 » Thank you. >> Okay. Uh any other uh comments or 442 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,920 questions or discussion? 443 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,680 » Any from commissioners online? >> No. 444 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:21,079 » No. >> Okay. 445 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:21,079 Well, someone want to make a motion? 446 00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:27,359 » Sure, I'll try. >> Okay. I make a motion that the 447 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:33,359 conditional use permit for contractor services at 121 North 830 West be 448 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:38,560 approved um with staff conditions as written and 449 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:43,520 one modification that should the business cease or move from the location 450 00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:49,680 that the conditional use permit would sunset and revert to its original zoning 451 00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:55,440 requirements. >> Okay. friendly addition to include the 452 00:36:52,720 --> 00:37:00,160 findings that meets the cup criteria under OMC 1574 subject to conditions and 453 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,359 it's consistent with the general plan and defense depot district plan. 454 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,760 » Okay, >> perfect. Thank you. 455 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,520 » So, is that a second? >> Uh I will second. 456 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,400 » Okay, so we have a motion by Commissioner Humphre and a second by 457 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,839 Commissioner Shinoda. This roll call vote. Miss Pagano. 458 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,560 » Commissioner Amadov. >> Yes. 459 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,160 » Commissioner Humphre >> I. Commissioner Sandow, 460 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,680 » yes. >> Commissioner Southwick, 461 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:29,440 » yes. >> Commissioner Williams, 462 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:35,440 » yes. >> Chair Ross, 463 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:38,320 » yes. Uh, that passes. So, uh, let's see. I guess that is the final on that one. 464 00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:40,480 So, good luck. >> Thank you, Commissioner. 465 00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:43,839 » You're online. >> All right. All right, we'll move on to 466 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:51,200 item three of the agenda, exterior materials review, uh, metal building, 467 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:56,240 uh, 102 Century Drive. Um, do we want to hear from the is the petitioner here? 468 00:37:53,440 --> 00:38:02,320 Uh, Teresa Roberts, if you'd like to say something before staff. 469 00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:07,599 » Uh, she's online, so I will give her permission to talk here. 470 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:15,920 » Hello. Um, it's pretty, this is a pretty simple 471 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:23,040 one. Um the code is requires um 60 well first of all it doesn't allow metal 472 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:30,240 buildings. Um and then there is an exception if we do 60% glazing on 473 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:34,960 the front of the building. Um but the we're we're building a post frame 474 00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:40,079 construction building and there's just engineering wise is no way to do 60% 475 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:45,760 glazing on the front of the building. Um the existing building is metal with a 476 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:51,200 about 4 foot uh I think it's brick Wayne's coat. Um 477 00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:56,160 and so that's what we plan to do for this this uh proposed building as well. 478 00:38:54,160 --> 00:39:03,359 Um that's what we're proposing is doing a a 4ft um brick or rock ways coat to 479 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:11,119 match the other building with metal. Um besides that and then also we will be uh 480 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:17,599 adding some glass to the overhead doors and the man door to meet the 20% glazing 481 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:24,079 requirement. Um and then we also did add a a gabled porch on the front to meet 482 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:28,320 the um varying depths requirement. The only one we couldn't meet was the 483 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:33,119 building has staggered roof line heights along with flat cornises. um the you 484 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,800 know the there's only the one roof line so we we couldn't meet that requirement 485 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:42,079 but we did were able to meet the rest of them 486 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:45,599 and yeah I think that's it on my end. >> All right thank you Miss Roberts I will 487 00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:50,720 now we'll hear from Miss Thomas from staff and 488 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:57,040 » thank you good evening um so this is an exterior materials review for a metal 489 00:39:52,880 --> 00:40:02,160 building at um with or sorry on Century Drive. These are the three factors for 490 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:06,160 consideration that we'll be discussing. Um, like the applicant has stated, metal 491 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:10,800 buildings are not permitted in our commercial zones with the exception of 492 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:16,560 if you are in our regional commercial district or our C3 zoning district. You 493 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:21,520 can have a metal building if it has 60% glazing on the front facade. If so, if 494 00:40:19,839 --> 00:40:26,320 it meets those two, then it is permitted. If it doesn't meet the 495 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:31,839 glazing requirement, then it can come before the planning commission to um be 496 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:36,880 reviewed with different requirements. And that's what the applicant is here 497 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:42,320 today to discuss. Uh just a site plan of their proposed 498 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:46,040 uh new building with their parking um and the existing building. 499 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:54,880 Um, so I just wanted to show an aerial image 500 00:40:50,640 --> 00:41:01,440 of the site. Um, there is a metal building that uh fronts Century Drive 501 00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:06,079 currently. Um, and then the rear portion of the parcel is not been developed. Uh, 502 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:12,119 with this addition of the metal building, the entire site will be 503 00:41:07,839 --> 00:41:12,119 brought up into current code compliance. 504 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:18,319 Uh so back to our factors for consideration. The first one is twofold. 505 00:41:16,319 --> 00:41:23,119 Uh the front facade has to have at least 20% glazing and two or more exterior 506 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:28,960 materials. So as the applicant has stated, they meet that 20% requirement. 507 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:34,079 Actually exceed it. Um with the doors and the the front door um sorry the 508 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:41,040 overhead doors and the front door. Uh they've also got uh four feet of stone 509 00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:46,160 um that comes up from the base of the project and then the steel walls meeting 510 00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:50,960 that those two exterior materials requirement. Uh I'm going to skip two 511 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:56,480 and go to three, the varied building depths. Um this is specific to the front 512 00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:00,960 facade, not the entire building. So they do meet that with their porch feature um 513 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:06,720 on the front of the building. And then back to two, this is the only one that 514 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:12,720 they didn't meet with their proposal. Um there is just that 412 pitched roof. Um 515 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:17,200 there's no flat sections or varying heights. Um 516 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:22,160 but the applicant is requesting an appeal to the planning commission under 517 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:27,839 the provision title 15 chapter 4 section 5J2C 518 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:32,400 um to uh to seek flexibility from this 519 00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:37,920 requirement um rather than modifying the proposed building. So planning or sorry 520 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:41,920 staff believes that um this would not impact the compatibility 521 00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:48,319 um or this would still be compatible with the area. Uh it is also behind the 522 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:53,760 existing building. So there's not a lot of visibility and it does meet all other 523 00:42:51,119 --> 00:43:00,240 requirements that we've set forth. So we are okay if you are okay with granting 524 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:06,560 flexibility on that second uh item. And then this is the staff recommended 525 00:43:03,359 --> 00:43:12,720 action um to approve the alternate exterior materials um finding that or 526 00:43:09,839 --> 00:43:17,280 sorry following our staff conditions of final site plan approval and obtaining 527 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:22,880 all building permits for the project. >> Okay, thank you. Um before we go to 528 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,400 staff comments, is there anybody here in the audience or online that would like 529 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,960 to have anything to say in regards to this? 530 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:34,560 If you do, please state your name, your address, and uh keep your remarks to 531 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:37,200 three minutes, please. So, 532 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:43,520 » no one online. >> Not seeing none. Uh we'll come back to 533 00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:47,119 the commission uh for discussion. >> I don't have a problem. 534 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:52,960 » I like this project. I'm good with it. >> All right. Uh any comments online from 535 00:43:50,319 --> 00:43:55,760 Commissioner Williams or Southwick? >> No comment from me. 536 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,880 » Done. >> Okay. Thank you. 537 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:03,520 » I have one question. If we >> recommend this based on the current 538 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,920 setup, that will allow them to not meet the roof requirement. Correct. 539 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,319 » That's correct. >> Okay. Perfect. Like I don't want to have 540 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,920 to amend it again. >> Yeah. Thank you for clarifying. 541 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:16,240 » Wonderful. All right. Can I get a motion? 542 00:44:13,839 --> 00:44:20,000 » I can do a motion. find that the proposed use of new 543 00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:23,839 architectural metal as the primary exterior surface material is compatible 544 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:28,640 with the area and approve the alternate exterior materials for a metal building 545 00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:33,040 in the C3 zone subject to the following staff conditions. One, obtain final site 546 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,160 plan approval. Two, obtain all required building permits for the proposed 547 00:44:34,319 --> 00:44:40,160 building. And I keep forgetting to put the address on there. This is for 548 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:45,680 exterior materials review metal building in the C3 zone at 102 Century Drive. 549 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,200 Second. >> All right, we got a motion by 550 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:52,880 Commissioner Sandow and a second by Commissioner Humphre. Roll call vote. 551 00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:55,920 Miss Pagano. >> Commissioner Almadov. 552 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,319 » Yes. >> Commissioner Humphre. 553 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,800 » I. >> Commissioner Sandow. 554 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,640 » Yes. >> Commissioner Southwick. 555 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,359 » Yes. >> Commissioner Williams. 556 00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:08,720 » Yes. >> Chair Ross? 557 00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:10,800 » Yes. >> Can you get my vote, please? 558 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,720 » Oh. >> Oh, sorry. [laughter] 559 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,960 Commissioner Shinoda >> I and also I on the last vote. 560 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:25,760 » Oh, did we miss you on that one, too? Sorry. You should have spoke up sooner. 561 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:29,760 Uh well, that passes. Uh uh we wish you well on your project uh for the 562 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:34,160 petitioner and that is a final decision. So, good luck on that. So, we'll move on 563 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:40,480 to item number four, preliminary sub subdivision modification, Kelly Court 564 00:45:36,319 --> 00:45:43,920 and 1425 Kingston Drive. Uh if the petitioner's here, Mr. Canon, you want 565 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:50,160 to come forward and tell us a little bit about your project? 566 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:57,440 » Um, Mr. Vice Chair, I think before then I think uh Mr. Southwick would like to 567 00:45:53,760 --> 00:46:02,720 recuse himself. Is that right? >> Yes, I'm a partner in the project. So, I 568 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:06,560 will not be uh uh voting or participating in the discussion on this. 569 00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:11,440 » All right. Thank you. Please note that in the minutes. 570 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:18,160 All right. Hi again. >> My name is Gary Cannon. 571 00:46:13,839 --> 00:46:25,599 I live at 1397 West 13400 South in Riverton, Utah. Uh, first I'd like to 572 00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:30,640 thank you and tell you how much that I appreciate your service to Ogden City. 573 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:33,599 I'm also an eighth term planning commissioner in the city of Riverton. 574 00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:38,079 So, I understand the commitment that you all make and it does not go unnoticed. 575 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:42,319 Trust me. And I know you don't hear that enough. 576 00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:46,240 Um, I I what's been so great the last couple years, this is the second 577 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:50,000 subdivision that I've been fortunate enough to and I I'm I'm going to try to 578 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,200 condense this as much as I can. This second subdivision that we've been 579 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:59,680 involved with in Ogden and I've been very impressed with 580 00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:03,680 uh the quality from the admin to to going through the process. So, I I just 581 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:07,920 want to tell you that we just had an interesting situation last week in 582 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:12,880 Riverton where uh um car dealer wanted to set up a a 583 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:16,240 dealership and we had we have restrictions for for the zoning that 584 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:22,400 they wanted to go in and thought it was odd that the you know dealerships are 585 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:27,920 generally based on um visual being able to see the vehicles 586 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:31,520 and traffic count and for whatever we've never approved one in Riverton before 587 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:37,359 but for whatever reason the zoning that it sat in had 588 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:41,520 a lot of vegetation and trees and shrubs out on the main street. And I questioned 589 00:47:39,359 --> 00:47:48,880 that because there's these business models that have been successful over 590 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:53,280 the years. And I don't think it's always the right thing for us trying to change 591 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:56,480 a successful business model. And when you think of a car dealership, you don't 592 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:59,920 think of trees and shrubs in front of it. You want to be able the visibility 593 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:05,280 of the cars. I want to point something that hits home for you. We're fortunate 594 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:10,079 to have I think the first Warren's uh restaurant in Salt Lake County, which 595 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:14,480 I know is a very successful uh restaurant up here. And I I frequented 596 00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:18,400 it two or three times a week for breakfast. It was I can say my favorite 597 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:23,119 restaurant. I got to know the employees there. And I watched the traffic count 598 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:28,240 or the the number of people go down and down. I says about Trauma Shields, 599 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:31,280 people don't know we're here. and they're on a busy road. They're on 114 600 00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:36,800 south across the street from the district, but they're about 60 ft off of 601 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:42,480 the main road. And that and it wasn't in Riverton. It was in South Jordan. And 602 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:47,839 the signage was so small that I felt like a a business model like that 603 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:51,680 deserves every opportunity to be successful. And when we in the 604 00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:55,440 government side of things try to come in and change change those things, 605 00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:58,960 sometimes doesn't always work the best. So, I applaud listening to you tonight. 606 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:04,160 I love the fact that you asked the commissioners who' voted nay why. I've 607 00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:08,720 never in a years I've never been asked why I voted nay. And uh I think that's 608 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:12,400 good for the applicant to hear. So when if they do if and when they do come back 609 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,040 but anyway that's all I have to say about that. 610 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,119 » Okay. Yeah. We're here to hear about your project. 611 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:22,800 » Yeah. But I just want Thank you. Thank you for letting me give you those three 612 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:26,880 or four minutes. Um is there a picture of that up Joe? 613 00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:31,839 Anywhere? Yeah, I'm sorry. Um, while you're doing 614 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:40,319 that, sadly, this is um we started this 615 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:45,200 project over a year ago and and I I I know it, but I'm going to read it. This 616 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:51,520 is this was our original design, but based on the moratorum on Poke, we moved 617 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:56,880 the culde-sac to the entrance down on Kingston. Uh when we originally started 618 00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:02,079 this design, we had 11 lots. If you look at it this evening, we are down to nine. 619 00:49:59,359 --> 00:50:07,920 This isn't the most economical thing to do when developing a subdivision is 620 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:14,079 reduce your density. Um I really wasn't happy about moving it to 621 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:19,200 Kingston, but the logistics, what I didn't like was the fact that it had a 622 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:24,079 negative flow or it had a flow running down onto Kingston. And with the the 623 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:27,520 weather we've had lately, I can see why rules like that are in place because if 624 00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:29,920 if we had a torrential downpour like that, the storm rains wouldn't be able 625 00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:33,680 to handle that. And it would hit the street, but it may also go to the 626 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:39,680 neighbors to the north. So I sadly in a year it's taken to get 627 00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:43,119 to this point now, we don't have a moratorium on Poke anymore. We can't put 628 00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:49,280 the entrance out on there, but it's cost us um 629 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:53,040 couple lots. Um, another reason we had to move it, there's a major power line 630 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:58,559 that runs through the property. When we originally started at the project, the 631 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:03,040 Rocky Mountain Power, the person we dealt with said it was going to be okay. 632 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:09,520 We could put it underground. That person has since retired, I believe. And uh, so 633 00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:13,440 we came back to this this design, which I like better. Anyway, a lot has 634 00:51:11,839 --> 00:51:17,599 happened in a year. We paid interest on a million dollars. We have downsized the 635 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:22,079 plat to nine lots. cost have increased almost 10% and most sadly our 636 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,920 underground excavator who is my best friend passed away a few months ago. So 637 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:30,400 we're coming to you. This is one of the few project in my I've been in the real 638 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:33,920 estate industry 42 years. This is one of the few projects where we actually had 639 00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:37,359 and a lot of you know this already. We actually had a lot of the neighborhoods 640 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:40,880 show up and welcome this project into their 641 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:47,119 neighborhood. This is an old LDS church site. Um not a lot of crazy things you 642 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:51,839 can do on it. Um, we've been we've done the best we could with what we had. Um, 643 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,640 and I'm open for any questions you may have. 644 00:51:52,319 --> 00:51:58,480 » I have one question and I I we we went and visited this site again today. Uh, 645 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,960 second time we did that. We did it last time you were here with the public 646 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,720 hearing and >> I remember with you downsizing the lots. 647 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:09,280 Remember part big part of the discussion had to do with the size of those lots. 648 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:14,160 Did as you downsized, did any of the other slots increase in size as far as 649 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:19,200 like square footage wise or did it mostly downsize to because of your 650 00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:23,520 limited with the power poles and that on that side? 651 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:25,760 » Overall, I would guess that and I I'm not Yes, they went up. I don't know how 652 00:52:25,359 --> 00:52:27,760 much. >> Okay. 653 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:32,079 » But all of I don't want to say every one of them went up in size, but 654 00:52:29,119 --> 00:52:34,880 cumulatively we have more square footage in the lots now than we did on the last 655 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:40,079 time we were here. >> Okay. Thank you. Is that correct, Joel? 656 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:42,880 Have you had a chance to look at it? I couldn't tell you the exact number, but 657 00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:46,160 » I just remember there was a lot of public that they were just a little 658 00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:49,280 small and they some of them wanted and but I mean I mean it was great project. 659 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:53,440 So, >> thank you. 660 00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:56,880 » But yeah. All right. Any questions for the 661 00:52:54,400 --> 00:53:01,440 » petitioner from question? >> Um my only concern would be that part 662 00:52:59,359 --> 00:53:05,839 that's connected to lot nine >> and that turning into 663 00:53:04,319 --> 00:53:10,480 » I don't know an eyesore because it's not being taken care of well that is a lot 664 00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:16,720 of land. Do we have any thoughts on how that could add to the community instead 665 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:24,160 of just be dead space there? I would love to find another option for 666 00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:29,920 that. And and we went back and forth on do we turn it into a retention basin? Do 667 00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:33,520 we just zerocape it, but then you then we deal with the maintenance that's 668 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:37,200 involved in it. We thought about maybe moving the road a little bit to the 669 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:41,599 south and move but then it in interferes with the power line running on the north 670 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:46,480 end north property line of Cali Court. So if if we can come up with something 671 00:53:44,319 --> 00:53:50,720 as we're moving along, we would love to come up with another option than than 672 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:55,200 giving it to that because I don't know I don't I don't place a lot of value in 673 00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:58,480 that either. We just don't have a lot of options. 674 00:53:56,079 --> 00:54:02,720 » Have you contact the the homeowners to the south and see if they would want to 675 00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:06,480 expand their just a question. >> No, it's a very good question. The 676 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,520 elevation change there is about probably three to five feet. 677 00:54:07,359 --> 00:54:13,280 » I noticed that there's good painting wall there. We we would give it to them 678 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,480 if they would accept it. I just I don't it's so narrow and it's such a I don't 679 00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:22,079 know what kind of value they would get out. It might end up being worse because 680 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:26,160 if they used it as an RV park or storage or I mean there's but we're open if we 681 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:29,760 could find something better. We went we went around and around on what to do 682 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:34,000 with it and that that was the best solution that we came up with. 683 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:37,720 » What about some kind of an HOA where you could have a park there? 684 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,079 It wouldn't be that much to maintain and then it would be the responsibility of 685 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:48,720 the whole >> certainly up for that. I mean the the 686 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:50,640 dirty word right now is HOA and for that small though. 687 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:54,880 » Yeah. That small of a space. It might be a good little pocket park or dog park or 688 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,359 something for the entire community. Very open to that idea. Thank you. 689 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,480 » So >> we would not look down on that. 690 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:06,160 » City doesn't want to take it. >> City too long. Maintenance is long. 691 00:55:03,858 --> 00:55:11,440 [laughter] All right. Any other uh comment or questions for the petitioner 692 00:55:08,319 --> 00:55:15,648 from the commissioners? >> All right. Hearing none, uh we'll go 693 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,720 ahead and hear from Miss Patrick [clears throat] staff. 694 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,880 » Thank you very much. >> Thank you. 695 00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:30,640 » Hello, commissioners. Good to see you. This is for amending the preliminary 696 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:38,480 subdivision for a nine single family lot subdivision located in the R18 zone 697 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:44,720 called Cali Court located at 1425 Kingston Drive. 698 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:54,160 So this property consists of about 2 point uh.24 of an acre or 106,000 square 699 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:59,280 ft. This is located in the Mount Ogden Community Plan and this is where it's 700 00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:04,240 located. The applicant is proposing to amend the 701 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:11,760 Kelly Court subdivision to a nine single family home subdivision in the R18. 702 00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:17,440 Ogden Municipal Code 1425 states that any time after pre 703 00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:23,040 preliminary subdivision plan approval or and before the submission of the final 704 00:56:19,599 --> 00:56:28,160 plat, the applicant may request that an amendment be made. 705 00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:33,680 So it could either be a minor amendment or a major amendment. In this case, this 706 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:38,760 is a major amendment. uh a total redesign of the original plat. 707 00:56:38,799 --> 00:56:47,440 The criteria are the same in this case. The we review the preliminary 708 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:52,000 subdivision on the same criteria as we did before. 709 00:56:49,280 --> 00:57:00,000 Uh the applicant may not propose more than two amendments uh whether ma minor 710 00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:06,640 or major to any preliminary subdivision plan. So, this will be the first of and 711 00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:12,079 hopefully the only as the applicant stated this was the 712 00:57:08,799 --> 00:57:16,720 former location of the LDS church. The property and some of the surrounding 713 00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:24,000 properties will make up the nine lots. This area was reszoned uh to R18 714 00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:29,280 December 3rd at 2025. The first preliminary subdivision for 715 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:34,960 Cali Court was s was arranged in this manner with the c with a culde-sac 716 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:42,799 coming off of Kingston Drive. Uh this was approved April 1st of 2026. 717 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:47,280 There is a main power line that was going to be relocated, but Rocky 718 00:57:45,359 --> 00:57:51,760 Mountain Power has determined that this is not economically feasible and cannot 719 00:57:49,839 --> 00:57:57,200 be removed or moved. 720 00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:02,799 So when we're looking at the factors for consideration of action, we want to look 721 00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:09,280 at is the design of the preliminary subdivision in relationship to streets, 722 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:15,119 lots, units, and other design factors, are they in in harmony with the intent 723 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:21,599 of the applicable zoning regulations? This is a picture of the power lines 724 00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:27,920 that were supposed to be moved or relocated or buried. Uh 725 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:33,839 this is no longer the case. So as you can see those there's quite a few power 726 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:38,960 lines that run through that easement. That picture to the lower right is where 727 00:58:36,799 --> 00:58:45,319 the Utah Power Line or Rocky Mountain Power Line easement runs. So this runs 728 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,319 east and west. 729 00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:55,440 Uh the as far as the factors for consideration 730 00:58:52,000 --> 00:59:02,400 of action, the the burden of potential 731 00:58:58,799 --> 00:59:10,079 of the of lot 9 could be potentially a lot. Uh that would be more maintenance 732 00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:16,079 for the homeowner. it would um create unusable land 733 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:23,040 that's attached to lot nine. So that could be a potential future 734 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:28,240 property owner burden that might have to be rethought. 735 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:34,319 This is the previously approved on the left and the modified subdivision on the 736 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:38,720 right. When we look at the second of the 737 00:59:36,799 --> 00:59:44,079 criteria, the proposed subdivision will not result 738 00:59:41,119 --> 00:59:53,200 in scattered subdivision of land that leaves undeveloped parcels. So if the 739 00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:57,359 if lot 9 were to be subdivided in a traditional way, it would leave a 740 00:59:55,440 --> 01:00:04,720 remnant piece of land. And that's represented in the split lot with the 741 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:11,520 orange being lot nine and the leftover uh remnant parcel. 742 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:15,559 So the applicant has decided to include that in lot 9. 743 01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:24,319 While the current configuration of lot 9 is really not preferred, an alternative 744 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:29,440 solution has not has yet to be identified 745 01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:34,440 due to the existing power line to uh easement that cannot be relocated. 746 01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:42,720 When we're looking at the third of the criteria that we need to consider is the 747 01:00:40,559 --> 01:00:47,599 subdivision provides for streets, utilities, and other improvements 748 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:54,640 identified in the general plan. The general plan found in 14.J of the 749 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:59,839 Mount Ogden Community Plan. In the community comment section of this plan, 750 01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:05,680 the community had concerns about public infrastructure and services. Cali Court 751 01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:14,079 subdivision will accommodate this future growth without sacrificing public 752 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:17,760 infrastructure and services to the area. Staff recommends approval of the 753 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:22,160 proposed subdivision, finding that the subdivision complies with preliminary 754 01:01:19,839 --> 01:01:27,599 subdivision requirements for zoning and utilities. It doesn't create scattered 755 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:31,920 tracks of land without utilities. It provides for streets, utilities, and 756 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:36,640 other improvements identified in the general plan on the following 757 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:41,760 conditions. List the addresses on the subdivision dedication plat for each 758 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:47,839 lot. Show the distance of Cali Court intersection in relation to Kingston 759 01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:53,200 Drive and 36 Street. Address the plaque corrections listed from legal on the 760 01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:56,799 correction report and address utility corrections listed on the correction 761 01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:00,400 report. Do you have any questions? 762 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,240 » Yeah, Commissioner, >> I have a question. 763 01:02:01,359 --> 01:02:07,200 » Commissioner Cinda, >> I know I'm not a planner, but I just 764 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:12,240 have a question of what if we went off 36 Street, that was the road, and then 765 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:16,480 that became lot nine where the road is, and then you wouldn't have that parcel 766 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:21,040 of land sticking out there. Is that even an option? 767 01:02:17,839 --> 01:02:27,119 » I think due to topography it may not be because it is um at a higher elevation 768 01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:31,200 than the rest of the parcel. >> So it would have to go down into the 769 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:35,119 culde-sac. It would have drainage issues >> and that's not allowed. 770 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:38,319 » Okay. All right. 771 01:02:36,799 --> 01:02:42,839 Any other commission? Commissioners, you have any other questions for Miss 772 01:02:39,839 --> 01:02:42,839 Patrick? 773 01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:48,400 » Yeah. Um, for that lot nine, I don't know if it 774 01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:51,280 was already addressed, which where would the be fronting? 775 01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:57,599 » Would it be fronting? >> It would front off the Cali Courtack. 776 01:02:54,480 --> 01:03:02,559 » So then the properties adjacent to it facing 36th Street. So its back would be 777 01:03:00,559 --> 01:03:08,319 so it'd be kind of flipped from the >> It'd be kind of double fronted. 778 01:03:06,559 --> 01:03:12,000 » I believe that's right. >> Is it? 779 01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:16,760 » I think you do either. I think it would be property owner choice. 780 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:26,200 » Yeah. Okay. [clears throat] Interesting. 781 01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:30,520 Any other questions from commissioners? 782 01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:38,000 All right. Miss Patrick, this is not a public hearing, but does anybody in the 783 01:03:36,319 --> 01:03:42,480 public want to speak on this project? And if so, uh, you come up. Please state 784 01:03:40,079 --> 01:03:48,000 your name, your your address. You have three minutes. Uh 785 01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:55,520 » Steve Van Wagner, I live over in this neighborhood. I am I love the proposal. 786 01:03:52,640 --> 01:04:00,640 I please urge you all to vote yes. this has been sitting there vacant since the 787 01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:05,599 church came down and this uh project moving something forward uh for that 788 01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:10,799 portion of land uh would be great for our community and um uh having some more 789 01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:15,240 neighbors uh nearby that would be great as well. Thank you. 790 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,240 » Thank you. 791 01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:25,039 » All right, seeing none other we'll come back to the commission for discussion. 792 01:04:20,799 --> 01:04:29,839 Any other questions or thoughts or My only thought is that sliver of land 793 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:32,720 and what options we have here. I love everything else about it. 794 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:37,039 » They're kind of stuck. I don't know what you have. 795 01:04:33,359 --> 01:04:42,160 » I I think the idea of a potential HOA space there makes the most sense 796 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:47,119 » in order to make that a usable spot. >> Uh question for staff. If they were to 797 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:50,400 choose to do that, would that modification be considered significant 798 01:04:49,119 --> 01:04:55,920 enough it would have to come back or would that be considered minor and it 799 01:04:52,319 --> 01:04:55,920 could just be handled inhouse? 800 01:04:59,839 --> 01:05:07,119 I would say that that would maybe put that more into the realm of a 801 01:05:05,119 --> 01:05:09,520 private subdivision because you would have to have an HOA. 802 01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:13,079 » Yeah. >> So, it would change. 803 01:05:15,839 --> 01:05:22,079 » I have a comment. HOAs are very unpopular with the public. I think it 804 01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:26,799 would be >> Yeah. Uh, I think it would be a problem 805 01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:31,440 to have the developer turn this into an HOA. I think we could maybe find a 806 01:05:29,359 --> 01:05:37,359 better solution. I think somebody asked, do the owners to the south, would they 807 01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:43,359 like to have that property added to their current property? Is do we need to 808 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:46,799 solve that today before we can vote on this? 809 01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:51,119 » And James, can we can we ask that? I mean, but that's kind of outside our 810 01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:54,720 realm if I'm right, but can we ask that as a 811 01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:58,480 » I don't think we can make it a requirement. 812 01:05:55,599 --> 01:06:03,200 » Yeah, >> because I mean your your job is to is to 813 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:10,079 look at it and see if it's approvable within the current land use regulations. 814 01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:12,400 Um, it's not really to design and figure out what to do with certain remnant 815 01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:16,720 parcels. >> Can we can we impose an that they do an 816 01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:19,920 HOA? That's falls in the same realm, right? 817 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:22,640 » We can't require an HOA, not unless it is truly a private subdivision. 818 01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:26,880 » Thank you. >> Can we put a condition work with staff 819 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:32,960 on a plan for it? >> Landscaping plan maybe 820 01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:35,680 » so at least starts manageable. They don't have to come in and at least 821 01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:40,130 landscape it because that's the hardest, most expensive part. 822 01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:45,599 » Yeah. I don't see why we couldn't have a [clears throat] condition to work with 823 01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:50,720 staff on that piece. um understanding that if something major has to has to 824 01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:53,920 happen, it may have to come back. >> Okay. I'm gonna I know the petitioner 825 01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:56,319 would like to say I'm gonna invite you back up just one. I would like to hear 826 01:06:55,280 --> 01:07:01,039 what you have to say because we've offered kind of a lot of 827 01:06:57,839 --> 01:07:05,359 » Thank you. I appreciate all of them. Um it is not below me to go to that 828 01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:13,039 property owner and ask him if he wants the ground. I with zero expense. I worry 829 01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:16,400 about the integrity of what it may do to the subdivision if he's given that 830 01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:19,599 ground and doesn't >> what he does with it. Correct. 831 01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:23,280 » Yeah. Yeah. So, I would like some conditions put on that if he was to 832 01:07:21,359 --> 01:07:26,160 accept and it might be a great might be great people. I don't know. But I I 833 01:07:25,119 --> 01:07:29,039 worry about that. >> Yeah. And future future people that own 834 01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:33,839 it too. Correct. >> Yeah. Could we do that, James? 835 01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:36,480 If that property owner does accept that piece of property and he doesn't 836 01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:40,160 maintain it, that is a property maintenance violation and code 837 01:07:37,839 --> 01:07:43,520 enforcement would take care of that. >> But again, that falls in the 838 01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:46,640 » but that would fall in after it was a mess. Correct. 839 01:07:44,559 --> 01:07:50,240 » I think the owners of the property doing the subdivision would prefer it didn't 840 01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:53,039 become a mess to begin with. >> Yeah. 841 01:07:50,559 --> 01:07:55,280 » And again, that's not what our decision. So, 842 01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:56,880 » all right. Any other >> I'm okay with it. 843 01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:00,240 » Everybody good? >> I can make a motion. 844 01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:04,640 » Okay. Go ahead, Commissioner Sheno. regarding preliminary subdivision 845 01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:10,319 modification for nine single family lots in the R18 zone called Cali Court 846 01:08:07,119 --> 01:08:13,599 located at 1425 Kingston Drive finding that the subdivision complies with 847 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:17,279 preliminary subdivision requirements for zoning and utilities does not create 848 01:08:15,839 --> 01:08:20,880 scattered tracks of land without utilities and provides streets utilities 849 01:08:19,199 --> 01:08:25,759 and other improvements identified in the general plan. 850 01:08:22,799 --> 01:08:29,920 I move to approve the [clears throat] proposed subdivision with the following 851 01:08:27,679 --> 01:08:35,199 conditions. List the addresses on the subdivision dedication plat for each 852 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:38,799 lot. Two, show the distance of Cali Court intersection in relation to 853 01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:42,880 Kingston Drive and from 36th Street. Three, address the plat corrections 854 01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:46,880 listed from legal on the correction report. And four, address utility 855 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:49,880 corrections listed on the correction report. 856 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:56,239 » Second. >> Okay, we have a motion by Commissioner 857 01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,920 Shinoda and a second by Commissioner Sandow. It's roll call vault. Miss 858 01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,719 Piano. >> Commissioner Amado. 859 01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:05,440 » Yes. >> Commissioner Humphre. 860 01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:08,239 » I. >> Commissioner Sando. 861 01:09:06,799 --> 01:09:11,040 » Yes. >> Commissioner South. No. Commissioner 862 01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:14,080 Williams. >> Yes. 863 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,159 » Commissioner Shenoda. >> Yes. 864 01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:19,040 » Chair Ross. >> Yes. 865 01:09:17,679 --> 01:09:23,520 That passes. So that's the final decision. Good luck on your project and 866 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:28,719 moving forward. Um all right. We'll move on to item five of the agenda. the 867 01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:32,960 Jefferson Junction development at 2731 Jefferson Avenues. And there is two 868 01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:38,480 parts to this, a preliminary group dwelling and a preliminary private 869 01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:42,080 subdivision. Um will uh if the petitioners here, 870 01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:47,880 Jonathan Shaw, you can come forward and tell us a little bit about your project 871 01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:47,880 before staff does a report. 872 01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:59,440 Well, thanks for your guys' time today and we appreciate you coming forth and 873 01:09:57,679 --> 01:10:03,600 helping us get this project together. So, we're working through the 26 town 874 01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:08,880 houses we're proposing here for a private subdivision in [clears throat] 875 01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:13,520 in the Jefferson district between 27th and 28th. I don't know if you guys have 876 01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:16,880 seen the property. It it we feel that it will drastically help because a lot of 877 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:20,719 the homeowners around us have actually come to us say we're excited because 878 01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:24,400 they have a lot of homeless people that kind of just trash the area and 879 01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:27,760 everything. So, we're excited to bring some home ownership in there and clean 880 01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:31,600 up the area for sure. So, and we're working through all the the red lines 881 01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:33,840 and everything with Joe and his team. So, yeah. So, thank you guys for your 882 01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:36,480 time. >> I [clears throat] thank you. We did 883 01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:40,800 drive by your place today also and took a look so we could have fresh eyes on 884 01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:44,159 it, too. So, thank you. All right, Mr. Simpson. Well, before you sit down, is 885 01:10:42,719 --> 01:10:50,640 there any questions commissioners have for the petitioner? All right, seeing 886 01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:54,000 none, uh, we'll let you have a seat. And >> Joe, you're up. 887 01:10:52,880 --> 01:11:00,640 » Thank you, chair, members of the commission. It's good to be with you 888 01:10:55,600 --> 01:11:06,480 tonight with this item. Um, is chair mentioned, this is a there's two 889 01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:11,840 applications that have come in with this proposal. includes a preliminary group 890 01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:17,120 dwelling approval as well as a subdivision plat that was submit at the 891 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:23,520 same time. And I believe the intent was and the hope was um from Mr. Shaw and 892 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:27,840 his team that we could have had a a great project that could get preliminary 893 01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:33,440 and final group dwelling approval together, which is an option that can 894 01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:40,320 occur on um lots this size being under 2 acres is 1.32 acres. and then look at 895 01:11:37,679 --> 01:11:45,760 the subdivision plat. So, I'm all about efficiency and doing things all at once, 896 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:50,239 but um we'll dig into the preliminary. We need to make sure we're to that 897 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:56,239 point. And so, I'll we'll dig into it now. But, um just to give some 898 01:11:52,640 --> 01:12:02,560 perspective of of the site and what we're dealing with, it is a a kind of an 899 01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:08,159 L-shaped lot, a larger flag lot, I should say. It's got a lot of um street 900 01:12:04,719 --> 01:12:15,520 frontage. um but uh has a significant amount of topography does slope um 901 01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:24,080 around from the north downwards to the south uh towards 28th Street. Um 902 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:30,640 the uh property has been vacant for quite some time. Um it is in the east 903 01:12:27,199 --> 01:12:36,480 central area. The proposal is to do um single family row housing and though the 904 01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:42,719 zoning doesn't require subdividing for individual ownership, the request is to 905 01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:49,920 plat it for individual unit ownership with the town homes. So that is their 906 01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:55,840 own free will and choice to do so. Um this is a good look at the uh the 907 01:12:52,719 --> 01:13:01,199 property. some of those we were on the tour. We did go and see um it drops 908 01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:06,280 quite a bit down from Jefferson and then slopes even further down to south. 909 01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:15,199 » Um it is all one solid piece of property. Um so 910 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:21,679 technically again no subdivision would be required but um we are grateful that 911 01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:27,360 um ownership um home ownership opportunities are being considered with 912 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:31,360 this project by the applicant. Um 913 01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:38,000 this showing the existing site the topography you can see how drastic that 914 01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:45,040 is um off of Jefferson. There are some um larger trees on the property as well. 915 01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:50,880 And that's one thing that um was not sufficiently staff's not sufficiently 916 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:56,800 addressed with the application is those existing trees and how they might be 917 01:13:53,520 --> 01:14:03,440 incorporated into the design of the project. And so um that would be one of 918 01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:09,120 the conditions staff would recommend um is that we have that uh detailed tree 919 01:14:06,159 --> 01:14:17,440 preservation plan identifying existing trees, their conditions and um 920 01:14:14,239 --> 01:14:23,040 see if if they are significant and can be preserved with the development. 921 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:28,320 Um this is showing the site layout. As we can see, there's multiple town home 922 01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:32,800 buildings being proposed, access coming directly off of Jefferson with a 923 01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:39,920 hammerhead turnaround um in two locations, one at the very 924 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:47,440 south end and one at the north end um to meet fire um access requirements. 925 01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:52,080 Um there is fencing shown um though the details of the fencing have not been 926 01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:57,040 provided. Due to the topography, there is quite a few uh retaining walls that 927 01:14:54,719 --> 01:15:02,719 would be done on the site which would include fencing on them. And our code is 928 01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:09,920 kind of unique in uh fencing on retaining walls where technically half 929 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:15,920 of the retaining wall height is counted towards the the fence height. Um, of 930 01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:20,000 course, if you have a five- foot fence or five foot retain wall, we don't want 931 01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:26,239 a one- foot fence on top of the retain wall. So, a minimum of of four feet. So, 932 01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:30,239 um, we just want the plan, the plan doesn't clearly identify the type of 933 01:15:28,239 --> 01:15:35,520 fence, those locations, but the group dwelling code does require, 934 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:40,560 um, that that fencing, a six-foot fencing be placed along, um, the 935 01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:46,719 perimeter of the property excluding the front yard setback, um, which is 20 ft 936 01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:52,400 from the street, which as noted on this, there's some concerns about that where 937 01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:56,960 we're showing a 15t setback. um these buildings would need to be shifted 938 01:15:54,159 --> 01:16:01,840 slightly to meet that 20 foot setback requirement. 939 01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:08,880 Um additionally um the the project has done good as far as um internal 940 01:16:04,719 --> 01:16:14,400 sidewalks and crosswalk connections um with all the individual uh front doors 941 01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:20,080 of the units. However, the code does require those units fronting um the 942 01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:24,560 public street. So, Jefferson that they have larger sidewalk connections. Those 943 01:16:22,719 --> 01:16:29,360 are required to be six feet and have direct connections 944 01:16:26,480 --> 01:16:35,520 um to tie into the neighborhood. Additionally, uh 24T uh driveway widths 945 01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:40,560 are required um in the development and these are measuring out about 22 feet. 946 01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:47,280 So, that's something that would need to be increased as well. 947 01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:51,120 um some of the amenities that have been shown. I know it's really hard to see 948 01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:57,440 the gazebo elevation, but that was one that was provided on the landscaping 949 01:16:53,679 --> 01:17:03,360 plan. It discusses a playground and there's um an image showing some of the 950 01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:12,880 playground, a dog park, and then um it shows some of the the uh the decorative 951 01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:19,520 uh concrete um crosswalks um that would be put in place um which 952 01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:27,840 that would meet code. there are um a number of outdoor amenities um um 953 01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:32,800 requirements that have to be met. Um and so we're we're asking that uh those 954 01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:39,520 details be provided. There seems to be some inconsistency between the um 955 01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:44,800 landscaping plan and the site plan as far as you know what those amenities 956 01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:50,159 are, how they relate to each other. Um and so just having those clarity and 957 01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:55,360 then of course just meeting those amenity requirements as far as quantity, 958 01:17:52,880 --> 01:18:01,040 location, and the design that is compatible with the development. 959 01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:07,280 Um again, we've talked about tree preservation. Uh this is a landscaping 960 01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:15,679 plan um that kind of outlines um the proposal. Um we we feel um you 961 01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:19,520 know a lot of this is is has potential you know as far as meeting our code. 962 01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:25,199 There are some things some that need to be addressed and looked at. Um of course 963 01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:30,239 trees that could are significant and could be incorporated into the 964 01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:35,920 development. Also the streetscape the areas along um the sidewalk and the 965 01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:41,600 street um and incorporating that in the design. And then of course again 966 01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:48,080 um meeting those outdoor amenity uh requirements on the site. We see on this 967 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:54,000 one the landscaping plan shows gazebo. I don't know if this is a gazebo covering 968 01:18:50,719 --> 01:18:58,400 um the playground or or how that is is functioning. But yeah, just some clarity 969 01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:03,840 and then you know showing that it meets those requirements. But we feel the 970 01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:11,679 intent is good as far as centralizing those and and having the access to them. 971 01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:15,600 Additionally, we need an entry sign for the development off of Jefferson with 972 01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:22,960 some landscaping around that. So, that is an additional um recommendation. 973 01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:28,800 Um we've got some good floor plans that have been presented. Um they there are 974 01:19:26,480 --> 01:19:33,520 some things that the commission consider um when we look at floor plans. Mainly 975 01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:39,040 we want to see the garages are big enough for the parking 976 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:44,239 requirements which um those are being met. Additionally 977 01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:50,000 um having outlets to support electrical electric vehicle um charging which those 978 01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:56,080 have been shown on the floor plans washer and dryer hookups. They have all 979 01:19:52,560 --> 01:20:02,640 that. Um, one thing that isn't being met is it does show uh balconies um with the 980 01:20:00,239 --> 01:20:09,280 units and 50% of the units are required to have either a balcony or uh a patio 981 01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:14,880 and there are certain size requirements for balconies. They need to be at least 982 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:21,040 6t deep and 8 ft wide. um they're short on the balconies shown 983 01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:26,080 on on these plans or we could have um patios that are 100 square feet. And so 984 01:20:24,480 --> 01:20:34,800 we're we're just saying we need to have this group dwelling requirement met. 985 01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:40,239 This shows the the design. Um it does um implement a lot of brick with um the 986 01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:46,719 elevations which is um outlined in the group 987 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:51,840 dwelling code as um main material um and particularly needs to be incorporated to 988 01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:56,560 the top the first level on all sides. And um the buildings for the most part 989 01:20:54,480 --> 01:21:03,280 meet this. Though there are a few sides where the grade is um at the um the 990 01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:07,199 heart the siding level or the horizontal planking 991 01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:13,199 level. And so there would need to be some additional brick on those sides. 992 01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:19,040 So that was one condition that has been added. Another 993 01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:25,760 uh concern is dealing with the street presence and I find it interesting as I 994 01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:32,400 drive through other cities and how new we have you see a lot of town home 995 01:21:28,159 --> 01:21:37,600 projects going up and a lot of them are really don't pay attention to the 996 01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:44,480 interaction of this new development and how it uh connects with the public way, 997 01:21:41,679 --> 01:21:52,080 the street and the neighborhood. Um, and our code really hits hard on this as far 998 01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:57,840 as creating a front elevation facing the public street. And I um, Greg 999 01:21:56,159 --> 01:22:01,920 Montgomery, our old plan manager, you always say we don't want the the 1000 01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:06,480 development turning its back on the community. We want it to face and 1001 01:22:04,239 --> 01:22:14,719 interact with the street. And so, a lot of the code language leads to that. Um 1002 01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:19,040 we do show on on this proposal having you know a front entrance but really 1003 01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:28,000 ultimately this this looks like a side of a building and um staff um is 1004 01:22:24,239 --> 01:22:34,159 recommending that conditions look at the design of this and implementing some 1005 01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:41,920 more um front elevation features whether that's bringing roof lines down um or um 1006 01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:47,600 adding additional windows. Um there is a minimum laz uh glazing or glass 1007 01:22:44,480 --> 01:22:54,800 requirement 20% along the main level facing the street which is not being met 1008 01:22:50,880 --> 01:23:00,159 with this design. So we we're in an area that is our east central and we really 1009 01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:06,880 like to see a good design on these front elevations that would um support um the 1010 01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:09,679 neighborhood and and be conducive with it. 1011 01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:20,400 Um the other is not the the group dwelling code requires that all the 1012 01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:24,880 entrances have uh porches and that the buildings incorporate a list of 1013 01:23:22,639 --> 01:23:29,040 architectural elements. There's three of them. 1014 01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:36,320 Three that a minimum that need to be applied to the development 1015 01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:41,440 um which um you know we we feel are missing from these elevation designs. 1016 01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:46,719 So, it's a condition we're recommending that we get these uh get the covered 1017 01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:54,960 porches element and the architectural elements met in the design and really 1018 01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:59,080 kind of look at keen towards um are in east central neighborhood. 1019 01:23:59,679 --> 01:24:09,120 And then lastly, um there was a phototric plan. I'm sure they're meeting 1020 01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:16,320 it, but um it was just not readable um as far as what those uh foot candles or 1021 01:24:12,719 --> 01:24:22,560 lumens are. Um, additionally, we want some details to see. No one ever thinks 1022 01:24:19,199 --> 01:24:27,840 about these things, but AC units and electrical meters and transformers, our 1023 01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:34,400 code um stresses the need to make sure those are not in public view. Um we get 1024 01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:39,360 you have to work with um you know uh Rocky Mountain Power, other utility 1025 01:24:36,159 --> 01:24:46,719 companies, gas companies and being strategic with landscaping, evergreens 1026 01:24:42,239 --> 01:24:51,840 and and fencing and location to provide good screening of that and of course 1027 01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:58,000 having lighting so we don't impact neighboring homes around this project. 1028 01:24:54,800 --> 01:25:03,800 It is somewhat an infill project as there are homes adjacent to the 1029 01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,800 development. 1030 01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:11,199 And then lastly, as I talked about the sub private subdivision plat, and there 1031 01:25:08,639 --> 01:25:16,000 is a plat included, and we don't want to discourage this. Of course, we want to 1032 01:25:13,440 --> 01:25:22,880 see the individual units be subdivided for owner occupation rather than rental. 1033 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:28,239 Um and so 1034 01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:33,280 um but there is concern where going through our subdivision process, it 1035 01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:37,360 seems to be a quicker process than than the site plan. And we want to make sure 1036 01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:44,400 that the layout of the building footprints match the actual site plan, 1037 01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:48,800 which we've got the first step of the preliminary. We feel there's a lot of 1038 01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:54,719 corrections that we want to have addressed and we're recommending to the 1039 01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:59,679 commission that this subdivision be continued um and to come in with the 1040 01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:05,280 final group dwelling review so the layout of the the units in the 1041 01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:08,639 subdivision match the layout of of the site plan. 1042 01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:11,760 So it's always talking about the bad 1043 01:26:10,159 --> 01:26:16,719 things. There are a lot of good things but um we kind of focus on things that 1044 01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:22,159 we want to resolve so we can get the project moving forward and get it 1045 01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:24,239 approved. So um there is quite a list I know 20 1046 01:26:23,440 --> 01:26:27,040 » three items >> three items have a lot to work through. 1047 01:26:26,480 --> 01:26:31,840 » Yeah. >> But uh staff feels that we could get 1048 01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:35,920 there and again this is a preliminary so this is the first step. we would do a 1049 01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:40,480 notice again for final group dwelling and for the subdivision to come back and 1050 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:46,159 look at it. But there are some things we we feel we could work um with the 1051 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:51,280 applicant and and get prepared and we just want to list those out for you in 1052 01:26:48,159 --> 01:26:57,440 consideration. So well it gave us plenty to consider. So thank you. So, uh, yeah, 1053 01:26:54,400 --> 01:27:01,040 we did. I mean, when I drove by the this project, you know, I thought I can't I'd 1054 01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:05,120 love to come and see this thing when it's done because I mean there a lot of 1055 01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:08,560 unique challenges with elevation and a lot of things, but what a wonderful 1056 01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:13,600 project if it can go all the way through to finish. So, 1057 01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:15,920 » I have multiple pages of this so you can >> go ahead commissioner. 1058 01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:20,480 » I have a question. Could you go back to slide eight for me? 1059 01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:24,560 » I sure can. Why we number them? >> Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. My biggest 1060 01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:29,440 concern is you're coming off Jefferson Avenue and you've got quite a slope 1061 01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:34,080 there. I worry about unit 18 and 19 being in direct ice during the winter 1062 01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:36,800 and cars going into it. >> Yeah. 1063 01:27:34,480 --> 01:27:42,400 » Just because what is the the slope going to be on this? 1064 01:27:38,480 --> 01:27:48,239 » There are minimum slope um or maximum I should say that can be um applied. 1065 01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:52,560 Generally that's a 10% is the absolute max. Um, 1066 01:27:50,239 --> 01:27:57,199 » well, because a thought that I had, and I love to throw my I have no idea what 1067 01:27:54,560 --> 01:28:03,440 I'm doing in here, but what if the road were to continue on and you were to turn 1068 01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:08,400 18, 19, and 20 the other direction and that's just a dead-end road so that you 1069 01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:11,600 don't have the possibility of cars going into garages. 1070 01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:18,800 » That's something that could be considered. I know that the layout was 1071 01:28:14,719 --> 01:28:24,480 chosen this way um because every 150 feet the fire marshall turn around and 1072 01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:30,080 so that it's though it looks like it's access to unit 20 it is it does provide 1073 01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:34,880 that but it is also so a fire truck could back into it and turn around. So, 1074 01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:40,639 » what if the road went straight and then they can back this count? 1075 01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:43,520 » Maybe. And that might be something that could be considered 1076 01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,800 » because I've seen pictures like this before. 1077 01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:49,679 » Yes. >> Where cars go into houses and where we 1078 01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:52,560 have a slope there. That's something to really consider here. 1079 01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:57,199 » Well, and and challenge too with drainage as well, you know, is 1080 01:28:55,679 --> 01:29:01,040 » your garage all of a sudden fills up with all the water coming down that 1081 01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:06,239 road. So, and I I know the engineers would would be looking into that, but 1082 01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:10,000 those are good suggestions for sure. >> That'll mostly all come to light during 1083 01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:14,159 the private subdivision portion if we were to continue it on. I correct. 1084 01:29:12,159 --> 01:29:18,560 » Well, and yeah, and through the site through the site plan review, which is 1085 01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:22,159 part of this group dwelling review, but no, this is 1086 01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:26,159 » why it's good to get many eyes on it so we can get good feedback and kind of why 1087 01:29:24,719 --> 01:29:29,199 we do a two-step. So, >> this is a preliminary. So this is just 1088 01:29:28,639 --> 01:29:30,800 saying >> that's why it's 1089 01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:33,040 » good idea, right? >> Yes. 1090 01:29:31,679 --> 01:29:37,760 » So yeah. >> And we got to admit this is this is a 1091 01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:41,120 very challenging site to to work with. >> It is. 1092 01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:45,120 » Yeah. All right. Uh any commission any questions for uh Mr. Simpson from the 1093 01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:48,560 commission? >> Yeah. Joe, I've got I've got a couple. 1094 01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:56,000 Um >> kind of had a rude awakening last week. 1095 01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:59,520 I was uh had an appointment over by the by Grand View where we approved that 1096 01:29:58,239 --> 01:30:04,960 project >> there and they've got their first 1097 01:30:02,239 --> 01:30:11,760 buildings look beautiful. first two first two buildings are up and I I don't 1098 01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:18,639 know how that compares to this but the narrowness of the driveway 1099 01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:25,760 and the complete lack of any parking other than inside the garage and no 1100 01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:31,040 parking. I mean, I I was just kind of shocked when I actually looked at that 1101 01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:35,840 versus looking at it when we approved on the plans 1102 01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:39,040 that I think it just I mean the the congestion 1103 01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:46,000 I'm not even sure you could pull an F-150 into into one of the garages with 1104 01:30:43,199 --> 01:30:50,239 the width between the two buildings. So I, you know, contrasting that with some 1105 01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:54,400 of the other things we've approved where there are 1106 01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:58,480 » there is driveway parking >> in addition to 1107 01:30:56,080 --> 01:31:01,600 » what's in the lane there. I question that. I question the slope on this. 1108 01:31:00,480 --> 01:31:05,840 » Sure. >> So I I would say yeah, we we recognize 1109 01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:11,199 they're narrow and we are that's why we're requiring they meet the minimum 1110 01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:15,280 driveway width for code. Um, they also need to meet the code requirement for 1111 01:31:13,199 --> 01:31:20,719 parking, which is the two stalls per unit. Um, 1112 01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:27,280 I know that this has come up of of guest parking requirements. Um, but yeah, that 1113 01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:31,920 is not a not part of our parking code or a code requirement. So, 1114 01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:35,920 » Mr. Chair, >> go ahead. Did did I understand you 1115 01:31:34,480 --> 01:31:39,840 correctly, Joe, that you were thinking even with 23 items that maybe we should 1116 01:31:38,159 --> 01:31:42,560 postpone this a little and narrow that list a little bit before we approve the 1117 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:46,880 preliminary? >> No, I was say I was saying we should 1118 01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:50,560 continue the subdivision plat. >> Okay. 1119 01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:56,800 » But um we'd be recommending I guess I could jump to our findings. So we we 1120 01:31:53,920 --> 01:32:01,520 feel that we could recommend approval including there is a a driveway 1121 01:31:58,719 --> 01:32:05,280 reduction. Um those and those are really just at the end 1122 01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:09,199 » of the driveways and 1123 01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:13,120 » Okay, then I have a couple more notes. >> Okay, 1124 01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:16,639 » the first is like so many town houses that we've approved and are being built 1125 01:32:14,719 --> 01:32:19,920 everywhere. The front doors are on the back side of the driveways. the 1126 01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:23,920 driveways in the middle of this subdivision, which means that the vast 1127 01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:28,800 majority of the front doors, specifically on the east side of the 1128 01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:33,040 property, are going to step right out six feet in 1129 01:32:31,199 --> 01:32:37,600 front of them. They're going to have a little sidewalk and a wall and a fence, 1130 01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:42,960 and there's nothing else there. I mean, it's just right in front of you, which 1131 01:32:40,480 --> 01:32:46,159 seems counterproductive because that's very usable space that 1132 01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:51,120 could be used for landscaping and other things, but it's just right there. And 1133 01:32:48,239 --> 01:32:54,320 secondarily, those are all houses on the other side. So, on the second floor, 1134 01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:58,400 especially on some of the plans that were submitted for for layout plans, you 1135 01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:03,360 didn't show all of them. You showed a sample of them. Um, in the most cases on 1136 01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:09,760 the second floor, the kitchen's not so bad. But on some of them, it included a 1137 01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:12,960 bathroom on that back wall, which is easily 1138 01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:17,199 you can easily see into a space like that from all those backyards and see 1139 01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:21,280 into the backyards from the bedrooms on the third floor as well as the kitchens 1140 01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:24,960 on the second floor into the backyards of those individuals. 1141 01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:28,639 I'm not as concerned about a bedroom in the sense you use it late at night and 1142 01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:32,480 most people won't be outside but and kitchens aren't usually an issue but a 1143 01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:37,360 bathroom is. And we need to make sure that there's not a lot of uh 1144 01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:42,719 crosscontamination if you understand my meaning in that sense. 1145 01:33:40,239 --> 01:33:47,440 » Uh and I think that's a challenge and I I echo Commissioner Sandal's concern. 1146 01:33:45,440 --> 01:33:52,400 We've seen a number of people who have slid in winter times on roads. And if we 1147 01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:57,120 can find a way to work with the developer and the fire marshall and 1148 01:33:54,320 --> 01:34:00,960 others to address that so we can remove that particular concern and get the 1149 01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:05,840 right kind of curves we need, that would be quite wise. Um because there's been a 1150 01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:09,159 lot of damage that's happened from that kind of material. 1151 01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:16,639 » Chair, I have a question. >> Go ahead, Commissioner Williams. 1152 01:34:13,199 --> 01:34:22,719 um 26 doors seems like a lot in that space. And if we're talking about um the 1153 01:34:20,639 --> 01:34:27,840 drainage right there, would it be possible to 1154 01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:32,880 for for everything to work out with just 24 1155 01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:37,199 doors instead of 26 and just take out 18 and 19? Maybe make that more of like a 1156 01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:40,880 green space if this is going to be a private subdivision. Anyway, Joe, I 1157 01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:45,360 guess the question is for you, Joe, or for the petitioner. 1158 01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:50,000 » I mean, there's nothing in the code that says 1159 01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:55,679 you you can't have less units than what you're allowed. It's a maximum. So, if 1160 01:34:52,400 --> 01:35:01,480 they build less units to to do redesign, that's that's not something that would 1161 01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:01,480 violate code. 1162 01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:07,360 » So, a formality issue here. So, we got two different items here. Is it going to 1163 01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:11,840 be two different action items, motions, or that would be 1164 01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:18,639 » it? It would. Yeah. And I I didn't do a presentation with the subdivision, but I 1165 01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:24,960 did because it's so over overlapping with, you know, us needing to address 1166 01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:29,280 three slides of corrections. So, this would be the recommendation with the 1167 01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:35,040 subdivision. that you know that the subdivision be uh um continued to be 1168 01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:37,199 reviewed with the final group dwelling review. So 1169 01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:41,520 » because I'm going to read the list twice. 1170 01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:46,320 » Well, no, you will just read the list once and then we'd make a vote at the 1171 01:35:44,159 --> 01:35:51,199 end of that and then this one be for the subdivision. So Joe, one last thing then 1172 01:35:48,480 --> 01:35:57,280 I would add is this particular neighborhood has cost restrictions with 1173 01:35:55,440 --> 01:36:02,719 regard to the type of buyers that are going to be looking in the space to 1174 01:35:58,719 --> 01:36:07,040 begin with. And we, one of the things that I noted that I 1175 01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:12,480 checked earlier today on is that the median income for people who live in 1176 01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:18,159 Weber County can't afford the median house in Weber County, 1177 01:36:16,480 --> 01:36:22,560 which means we're turning into a generation of renters instead of 1178 01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:28,080 homeowners. And I would love to see this as a homeowner project like we've done 1179 01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:31,120 so many in the recent weeks, but I also want to make sure that these are 1180 01:36:29,679 --> 01:36:37,840 affordable enough for people to actually buy them. 1181 01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:41,440 So I I get concerned that this has to pencil economically and how the 1182 01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:45,280 developer is going to be able to meet those needs. We'll look at that in the 1183 01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:49,520 final obviously, but I think we have to be a little flexible in certain cases 1184 01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:55,119 with some of the things we're looking at to make sure that it can pencil properly 1185 01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:59,920 and sell in that neighborhood. I mean it is an important issue but I I 1186 01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:04,000 guess what I would go back is you know what the what the findings are that 1187 01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:09,520 we're going to be making today relating to the group dwelling code and standards 1188 01:37:06,639 --> 01:37:14,800 and the findings and com and uh the design of the site and the buildings and 1189 01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:17,520 compatibility. So I that would just be my direction. 1190 01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:21,840 » Yes sir. Thank you. >> I ask another formality. Sorry. 1191 01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:26,719 » Anything. This is what I get to do. So, the first part I notice will be a final 1192 01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:30,400 decision. Uh, but the on the private subdivision would go to the mayor. So, 1193 01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:33,920 we just recommend something the mayor could approve this and it could or how 1194 01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:38,000 does that work? Could we go to the mayor? You know what I'm saying? 1195 01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:43,360 » Well, and I think it and I I have had that thought. My concern is I would 1196 01:37:40,719 --> 01:37:50,880 really like for the commission to see that the plat is matching with a more 1197 01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:55,440 final site plan. It's not as big a deal with lots, you know, where 1198 01:37:53,360 --> 01:38:00,080 » you have a setback and there's there's room to play, but in these private 1199 01:37:58,159 --> 01:38:05,840 subdivisions, those footprints are pretty specific. That's where those 1200 01:38:02,719 --> 01:38:10,800 units are going to go. And it just makes more sense to have that 1201 01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:13,600 » more refined and looked at together by the commission. 1202 01:38:11,679 --> 01:38:16,800 » I guess that's what I'm saying. Would we recommend that it just continue on and 1203 01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:19,440 it's tabled and it doesn't go to the mayor at this point? That's what that's 1204 01:38:18,239 --> 01:38:22,960 why I'm asking. I didn't know if we could do that or if it would go to the 1205 01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:25,840 mayor and he made a decision. We don't get to see it and we don't get a look at 1206 01:38:25,199 --> 01:38:30,480 that. So, >> yeah. No, this so our recommendation 1207 01:38:28,159 --> 01:38:36,560 this is the findings and the motion that we have is, you know, that it it is the 1208 01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:42,400 the private subdivision is subject to change um from conditions from the 1209 01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:46,400 preliminary group review and to uh continue it to come in with the final 1210 01:38:45,199 --> 01:38:51,360 group review. >> Great. Thank you. answer my question. 1211 01:38:48,159 --> 01:38:56,320 » Joe, what's what's our requirement for green landscaping, open space, green 1212 01:38:53,760 --> 01:39:01,600 space? Does this meet this just seems like an awful lot for for that size 1213 01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:08,719 footprint? Yeah. So it require this is a small lot 1214 01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:14,639 group dwelling. So it requires um the setbacks to all be landscaped and then 1215 01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:20,000 it requires a percentage or not a percentage but a square footage based on 1216 01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:26,960 the number of units of gathering area and the those uh uh gathering areas have 1217 01:39:24,480 --> 01:39:29,360 amenities. There has to be a certain number. 1218 01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:34,400 » And does this proposal meet those requirements? It it it looks like it may 1219 01:39:32,159 --> 01:39:41,119 there's just some as I was mentioning there's some inconsistency with some of 1220 01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:44,880 the amenity areas and that may change those may change as well shifting to 1221 01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:50,639 meet like the front setback and the driveway width. So there's going to be 1222 01:39:47,199 --> 01:39:56,639 some redesigning that needs to occur and we have in the corrections you know 1223 01:39:52,880 --> 01:40:01,040 referred to those um those codes. So we we get you you move one thing and it's 1224 01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:05,119 like well that moved this and that moved this and now we got to oh we got to keep 1225 01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:08,880 that in mind and so it it can be challenging because you think well I 1226 01:40:06,719 --> 01:40:14,560 fixed that but by fixing that you've affected these items. Um yeah, so there 1227 01:40:12,239 --> 01:40:19,119 are some some requirements landscaping wise generally. I mean big thing that we 1228 01:40:17,199 --> 01:40:24,159 have in our code is you know restricting the the amount of turf to certain 1229 01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:28,639 percentage which it appears that that is the case with this plan. Um there is a 1230 01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:33,840 lot of shrubs. One thing that we have to be careful of was like with ornamental 1231 01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:39,440 grasses can't have more than 20% of the ornamental grass and that's a fire 1232 01:40:36,159 --> 01:40:44,159 safety code that we have. So yeah, we we're looking at some of the symbology 1233 01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:48,800 like for the turf areas and that we're we've asked, you know, for some of those 1234 01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:54,639 calculations so we can make sure they're meeting it. But again, it's it's 1235 01:40:51,920 --> 01:41:01,679 preliminary, so we understand that a lot of times we don't those things are not 1236 01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:06,000 fully there yet until the final. >> One last question. So if we were to 1237 01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:10,239 approve the preliminary, we're not approving this exact 1238 01:41:08,719 --> 01:41:15,760 » setup, right? >> No. What what we would you'd be 1239 01:41:12,239 --> 01:41:22,159 approving is that you know t the the town homes and the projects the project 1240 01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:25,119 itself has has uh the potential to be approved. There are some corrections 1241 01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:29,679 that need to be made and some modifications and some additional 1242 01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:36,080 information provided for us to make a final group dwelling approval. So, 1243 01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:40,800 » and then we see it again. Great. >> You will see it again. We will notice 1244 01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:44,239 again do it again. [laughter] >> Awesome. All right. Any other 1245 01:41:42,719 --> 01:41:47,199 commission? Any other questions from commissioners? 1246 01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:50,880 » Do you want the public? >> Yeah, I'll ask that. Um, all right. Um, 1247 01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:53,679 thank you, Mr. Simpson. Is there anybody, this is not a public hearing, 1248 01:41:52,239 --> 01:41:58,080 but is there anybody in the audience or online that would like to comment on 1249 01:41:55,280 --> 01:42:01,520 this project? Uh, come forward. And again, uh, keep your comments to three 1250 01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:05,030 minutes. State your name and your address, please. [gasps] 1251 01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:15,199 Brian Scaddyy 26:15 Van Burren. I want to paint a couple of paintings, 1252 01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:18,960 pictures for you, brother members of the commission. 1253 01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:23,840 And you look at the access off of Jefferson, 1254 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:28,719 you first look at the 30 foot drop. It goes from the top of where the access on 1255 01:42:26,239 --> 01:42:34,400 Jefferson is to the land on the bottom in less than a half a football field. 1256 01:42:32,159 --> 01:42:38,639 That's fairly steep. So when that fire truck comes over the edge 1257 01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:44,639 » in the winter, first thing he's going to see is the porch of uh probably number 1258 01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:50,719 16, something like that. Number two picture. 1259 01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:57,440 If you'll look at where I'm standing, I'd be standing on on the porch or the 1260 01:42:54,400 --> 01:43:03,760 side of the building of a single story home and where you're sitting will be a 1261 01:43:00,639 --> 01:43:11,840 40ft wall from my side of my house. I'm not sure 1262 01:43:07,440 --> 01:43:19,520 that meets what we want to do in downtown Auggan. 1263 01:43:14,639 --> 01:43:25,440 May I suggest that we have either forgotten the vision or lost the vision 1264 01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:30,639 or never had the vision for East Central. 1265 01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:35,040 I don't think we need more of those 40ft tall buildings. If you want to look at 1266 01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:40,880 the quality of one of those, just turn around the corner, drive up 20 Swift 1267 01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:47,440 Street, Fifth Street or 28th Street, and look at uh the homes there that are 1268 01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:53,360 standing next to a 40ft wall and a singlestory home next door to it. I 1269 01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:57,280 think we've lost the vision. I hope we can gain the vision for East Central. 1270 01:43:56,480 --> 01:44:00,600 Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. 1271 01:44:00,639 --> 01:44:06,719 Any others? Is there any online board? >> No. 1272 01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:12,800 » Okay. Thank you. All right. We'll bring it back to the commission. Uh any more 1273 01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:17,119 comments, questions, or want to make a motion? And again, it'll 1274 01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:22,639 be two different ones on the preliminary group drawing with that one. 1275 01:44:19,760 --> 01:44:28,080 » Well, my thought is there are 23 things here. I don't want to stop development 1276 01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:32,400 moving forward, but I wonder if we've given enough feedback of things we don't 1277 01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:37,840 like so that when the final gets here, they're not surprised when some of us 1278 01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:40,000 are not willing to safetywise approve it. 1279 01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:44,000 » Yeah, I thought the same thing. I kind of wondered if we ought to postpone a 1280 01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:46,880 vote on this alto together until next month and give the developer and the 1281 01:44:45,440 --> 01:44:52,800 planning department a little bit more time to narrow the focus a bit and help 1282 01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:57,119 address some of those bigger issues so there's less for them to do before the 1283 01:44:54,480 --> 01:45:01,199 final gets to us. >> I'd be interested to know how planning 1284 01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:05,600 feels about that. Do do you feel like it's good to put it off a little bit and 1285 01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:10,239 address them now or does it kind of stunt it? 1286 01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:15,280 I just didn't want to make him pay another fee to come back. 1287 01:45:12,159 --> 01:45:20,400 » Well, and and I know it'll add a a bit more time to the review because um we 1288 01:45:18,639 --> 01:45:25,440 have deadlines and noticing that would have to be met. So, it probably would 1289 01:45:22,719 --> 01:45:33,679 add a couple more months to the project. But, um you know, we're as far as staff, 1290 01:45:30,159 --> 01:45:39,440 we're fine either way. um we can we're planning to work with the applicant 1291 01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:45,040 either way and and moving forward, but if the commission feels that there's 1292 01:45:42,480 --> 01:45:50,960 things that they need to see before it take makes that step to the final group 1293 01:45:48,239 --> 01:45:56,560 dwelling that I would I would say that's that's the decision that would have to 1294 01:45:53,440 --> 01:46:01,360 be made in order to continue um preliminary. 1295 01:45:58,239 --> 01:46:04,719 I I just think there's so many changes that the project could look almost 1296 01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:07,440 completely different by the time it comes back to us. 1297 01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:10,800 » Well, that's why there's 23 items on there, you know, that's that's the whole 1298 01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:15,119 reason why you preliminary just gives them good faith to move forward, you 1299 01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:18,800 know, and work with staff. But I think the staff's well aware of all the things 1300 01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:22,800 and even when we drove by this, you know, there's a lot of I mean just 1301 01:46:21,119 --> 01:46:26,320 hearing their concerns and all the things. I think most of those all be 1302 01:46:24,480 --> 01:46:29,920 resolved and [gasps] keep notes these will be here. We can 1303 01:46:28,239 --> 01:46:33,920 address them when they come back, you know, but and it may look different when 1304 01:46:32,639 --> 01:46:36,800 they work with staff. Their project might look totally different. So, but I 1305 01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:41,280 think we need to give them the opportunity to develop under the codes 1306 01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:46,400 and things that we've established through through 1307 01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:51,360 Tone Ogden and everything. So, but I know that's why we're here to discuss as 1308 01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:55,679 commissioners. So, any other comments or remarks? 1309 01:46:52,639 --> 01:46:59,679 » I'll just say it's it's easier for me as a commissioner to move forward 1310 01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:04,239 when there's less >> uncertainty. 1311 01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:08,880 Um, but I'm okay moving forward this time. So just for your next uh 1312 01:47:06,719 --> 01:47:14,880 development, just keep in mind that the more exceptions and and uncertainty, 1313 01:47:11,679 --> 01:47:21,000 you're there's more risk of us needing clarity in order to move 1314 01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:21,000 forward. 1315 01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:30,639 This may be a little premature, but I'm going to make a motion that the 1316 01:47:27,679 --> 01:47:34,880 Jefferson Junction development at 23 2731 1317 01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:39,040 Jefferson Avenue, both preliminary group building and preliminary private 1318 01:47:36,239 --> 01:47:42,719 subdivision be tabled, which gives everyone a month to to address this 1319 01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:46,000 before we give final review on the preliminary. 1320 01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:49,760 » I'll second the motion. Okay, I got a motion by Commissioner 1321 01:47:48,239 --> 01:47:57,239 Humphre, a second by Commissioner Southwick. This is a roll call vote. 1322 01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:57,239 » Commissioner Almad. 1323 01:48:05,119 --> 01:48:10,080 » Yes. >> Commissioner Humphre. 1324 01:48:08,480 --> 01:48:15,360 » Hi, >> Commissioner Sando. Yes, 1325 01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:19,920 » Commissioner Southwick. >> Yes, 1326 01:48:16,719 --> 01:48:23,040 » Commissioner Williams. >> Yes, 1327 01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:26,400 » Commissioner Shenoda. >> No. 1328 01:48:25,119 --> 01:48:29,400 » Chair Ross? >> Yes. 1329 01:48:30,239 --> 01:48:37,440 » All right. Uh, well, there's a decision on that and so, uh, you want to give 1330 01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:41,119 Commissioner Shinota a chance to explain what's 1331 01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:48,239 » Yeah. Go ahead, Commissioner Shena. >> Yeah, we we [clears throat] have 1332 01:48:44,719 --> 01:48:53,800 we have voted in favor of other uh projects with a similar number of 1333 01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:53,800 exceptions. 1334 01:48:54,400 --> 01:49:00,880 » Okay. So, >> thank you. 1335 01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:05,600 » All right. I guess we still need to make some take some action on the preliminary 1336 01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:09,119 subdivision or does that kind of go away as we're putting it on hold? 1337 01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:14,080 Sorry, what was that? >> So, do we still need to uh vote on the 1338 01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:19,679 preliminary subdivision? >> I believe that was in the east. 1339 01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:22,239 » That was by sign included both together. >> All right. 1340 01:49:21,210 --> 01:49:26,400 [sighs] Well, thank you. All right. We'll move on to item number six, which 1341 01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:34,520 is public hearing of the West Ogden zone changes. Um, Mr. Ripian, I guess you're 1342 01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:34,520 up to 1343 01:49:48,239 --> 01:49:52,360 I was going to ask for a fight. 1344 01:49:54,800 --> 01:50:01,119 While you're getting this up, can we take a five minute break? A few of our 1345 01:49:57,600 --> 01:50:03,679 commissioners need to take a second. So, be all right. All right. Let's let's 1346 01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:09,719 break for five minutes and we'll come right back. So stretch your legs. Those 1347 01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:09,719 who've been sitting things 1348 01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:20,816 » you're a good dude. >> I hope you like that. Don't you 1349 01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:22,836 need a little bit of [sighs] 1350 01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:34,920 » It's a good one. 1351 01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:41,080 I'm very happy. 1352 01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:48,840 » You too. >> That's good. That means there's action. 1353 01:50:49,199 --> 01:50:56,639 » You're wrong. >> No, I have a team. 1354 01:50:54,560 --> 01:51:00,560 » I've got a good I've got a good I've got a lot of good teammates. everybody in 1355 01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:05,840 there. >> They work so we all work so hard. 1356 01:51:04,159 --> 01:51:12,920 » It's really nice. So >> So you kind of like 1357 01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:12,920 go 1358 01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:18,440 » mean could take a day off. 1359 01:51:18,639 --> 01:51:22,600 » Maybe I'll go to spring. 1360 01:51:25,199 --> 01:51:30,639 might be in southern Utah again. 1361 01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:32,960 » I don't want it to be like >> I think that's where the last spring 1362 01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:36,440 was. >> But I do think 1363 01:51:40,239 --> 01:51:44,840 » Yeah. You just drove what hours? 1364 01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:51,719 » New Hilton Hotel. 1365 01:51:52,080 --> 01:52:00,280 » Big conference. Lot of lot of AI still 1366 01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:29,080 » that's there now. And it's not I wasn't trying to be harsh. You weren't all 1367 01:52:26,080 --> 01:52:29,080 those5 1368 01:52:56,080 --> 01:52:59,239 in there. 1369 01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:06,159 » This is grand view. >> Yeah, that 1370 01:53:03,119 --> 01:53:09,719 » but it's kind of hard to talk about first rows. 1371 01:53:11,119 --> 01:53:16,280 » I'm sorry. >> We're making this meeting. 1372 01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:26,000 » No, my thoughts on the pulinary. 1373 01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:35,080 Huh? 1374 01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:56,520 » The amount of items isn't what bothered me the most. It was what wasn't on those 1375 01:53:53,520 --> 01:53:56,520 items. 1376 01:54:00,239 --> 01:54:03,239 » Yeah. 1377 01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:14,760 » Oh, yeah. The one that's not happening now. 1378 01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:26,760 This one's a little better than that, I think. 1379 01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:37,840 » All right, we'll start back up in one minute. 1380 01:54:36,320 --> 01:54:44,159 » Hey, they didn't even leave till I got back. 1381 01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:47,159 They're supposed to leave the same time. No. 1382 01:54:48,639 --> 01:54:55,480 Well, and there's a difference between like a difference of opinion versus a 1383 01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,480 safety issue. 1384 01:55:05,089 --> 01:55:11,400 [laughter] >> What's that? 1385 01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:11,400 » All the public. 1386 01:55:11,599 --> 01:55:18,159 » It's all on you. >> Oh, yeah. 1387 01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:22,174 good. So, >> I mean, they won't want [laughter] 1388 01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:39,400 » You could feel it. You're not supposed to be able to feel it. 1389 01:55:40,719 --> 01:55:47,000 » All right, if we have everybody seated, we'll go ahead and get started. So, 1390 01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:57,280 thank you for your patience. Um, as we are heading into public hearing, uh, 1391 01:55:54,719 --> 01:56:00,000 before, uh, Mr. Ripian gets going, want to thank everybody for their 1392 01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:04,320 correspondence and the emails we received over the next few items, uh, 1393 01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:08,320 they have been forwarded on to us as commissioners and we've read them and so 1394 01:56:06,239 --> 01:56:12,800 we really appreciate that. it gets us thinking and then as we go drive by the 1395 01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:16,639 sites uh you know it helps us uh know and get a feel for the history and 1396 01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:21,520 things. So I just want to thank you for that. So all right Mr. Ripian. 1397 01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:25,840 » All right. Excellent. >> Thank you 1398 01:56:23,280 --> 01:56:30,800 Chair Ross and planning commission. So the um item on the agenda today that 1399 01:56:28,400 --> 01:56:37,679 we'd like to review as a public hearing is the West Ogden zone change associated 1400 01:56:33,679 --> 01:56:42,159 with the future land use map. Um, so as you look at this item, we'd like you to 1401 01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:47,840 consider um should the proposed zone change area be zoned M2 based on 1402 01:56:44,719 --> 01:56:54,320 following the future land use map. So I have um just some background 1403 01:56:50,080 --> 01:57:00,000 information. So, as we've been uh preparing the future land use map as 1404 01:56:56,159 --> 01:57:06,239 part of the general plan update, um we looked at several areas throughout the 1405 01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:11,440 city. And um we compared the the general plan or the future land use map with the 1406 01:57:09,119 --> 01:57:16,800 um the zoning map for the city. And there are several areas that we felt uh 1407 01:57:13,840 --> 01:57:23,840 were appropriate to consider for reszoning to um to align the the zoning 1408 01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:29,280 map with the future land use map. So the West Ogden area is one of those one of 1409 01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:35,679 those areas. So you can see in the future land use map the West Ogden area 1410 01:57:32,320 --> 01:57:41,440 and then the zoomed in uh image on the right hand side shows the area that 1411 01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:46,400 we're considering or that was considered um at a previous meeting to be reszoned 1412 01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:54,320 from uh R15 1413 01:57:48,800 --> 01:58:00,880 C3CO and M1 uh to M2. So the the yellow outlined area was the previous proposal. 1414 01:57:58,239 --> 01:58:05,920 Um so we did notify all the property owners within this area and we received 1415 01:58:03,440 --> 01:58:10,320 feedback which has been shared with the planning commission. So as I stated 1416 01:58:08,560 --> 01:58:16,800 before you can see the relationship between the future land use map and the 1417 01:58:12,560 --> 01:58:22,400 the zoning map. So originally the um the area that's outlined in black on the 1418 01:58:18,400 --> 01:58:33,440 right hand side shows um the the original proposal from going from R15 C3 1419 01:58:27,360 --> 01:58:38,880 or C3CO and uh M1 to M2. Um, so we did, as I said before, we 1420 01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:47,199 received feedback on the original original, um, area. And so, um, the 1421 01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:52,159 feedback that we received was to from the kitchen family. They're we're 1422 01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:58,960 proposing to include several of their properties within the 1423 01:58:55,520 --> 01:59:03,520 zone change area, which was just north of the C3CO. 1424 01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:09,440 And so you can see that area outlined in yellow. And then we also received input 1425 01:59:06,239 --> 01:59:15,599 from existing residents on Doxy Street and they um requested that their 1426 01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:23,760 property be removed from the proposed uh zone air zone change area. So after um 1427 01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:28,400 our previous meeting, we um we did a windshield survey. We went out and um 1428 01:59:26,320 --> 01:59:34,800 looked at all the different land uses in the area. And so this map highlights 1429 01:59:31,840 --> 01:59:41,199 the existing land uses in the area. The brown signifies 1430 01:59:37,440 --> 01:59:49,520 manufacturing. The light um yellow or beige signifies residential and then the 1431 01:59:44,639 --> 01:59:56,320 green is for vacant properties. So after uh we had our discussion at our 1432 01:59:52,560 --> 02:00:01,760 previous meeting, the uh staff proposed a modification to the original proposal 1433 01:59:59,679 --> 02:00:07,280 which included some of the properties just north of the or I guess on the 1434 02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:11,760 south side of Benford Street, the area outlined in yellow. So that was our 1435 02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:15,920 modified proposal. And then we also shared three options 1436 02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:23,440 with the planning commission. One option was to um follow the future land use 1437 02:00:19,599 --> 02:00:27,599 maps boundary which was the straight alley is what we called option one. 1438 02:00:25,599 --> 02:00:33,119 Option two was Benford Street. So it included some properties 1439 02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:42,239 uh on the south side of Benford and then option three expanded even further uh 1440 02:00:36,639 --> 02:00:47,920 north and um yeah captured several um areas north of Benford Street. So those 1441 02:00:44,480 --> 02:00:54,159 were the three options that we explored. The planning commission uh decided that 1442 02:00:51,119 --> 02:01:00,080 option one was the preferred option out of those those three. 1443 02:00:57,119 --> 02:01:06,880 This option um so it includes the all the property that's shown on the future 1444 02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:14,960 land use map uh with without the residential area um along DXY Street. So 1445 02:01:11,199 --> 02:01:21,040 that was the that was the preferred proposal. This also highlights the 1446 02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:28,320 different land uses and um how this area would interact with the future um 24th 1447 02:01:25,119 --> 02:01:34,320 Street interchange. Um since the last meeting, we did um 1448 02:01:31,679 --> 02:01:38,880 some more research um and I I actually learned a lot more about what's uh 1449 02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:47,679 happened in the past. So the the kitchens had a previous application to 1450 02:01:44,239 --> 02:01:52,880 modify the West Ogden community plan to include part of their prop or some 1451 02:01:50,239 --> 02:02:03,199 additional properties along Benford Street. So, the area outlined in red 1452 02:01:56,560 --> 02:02:11,280 um was proposed to be reszoned and to um to yeah be part of of the property 1453 02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:17,920 that's also south of the yellow line which they use for kennel. They build 1454 02:02:14,320 --> 02:02:25,440 kennels um on their property and so this was proposed as a future expansion. 1455 02:02:21,599 --> 02:02:32,800 So this is um in the West a community plan amendment and the proposed reszone 1456 02:02:28,560 --> 02:02:40,159 that was proposed in 2021 stated that the planning commission's 1457 02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:48,159 recommendation stated that if the um that the entire block between G Avenue 1458 02:02:44,000 --> 02:02:55,840 and H Avenue from Benford Street to 27th Street should be considered for uh 1459 02:02:51,280 --> 02:03:00,480 reszone to either C3CO or M1CO. Um so that was the planning commission's 1460 02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:07,599 previous recommendation. Um which yeah included that that 1461 02:03:03,760 --> 02:03:14,639 property that was outlined in red. Um here's just some more documentation 1462 02:03:10,320 --> 02:03:16,480 of what the planning commission reviewed in 2021. 1463 02:03:16,345 --> 02:03:24,960 » [clears throat] >> So outlined the the entire block 1464 02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:30,639 as potential M1 CO or C3CO and then just the the notice. So and 1465 02:03:27,679 --> 02:03:35,040 then this was the conceptual site plan. So on the 1466 02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:41,520 the there's the existing building on the south with parking to the I guess it' be 1467 02:03:38,480 --> 02:03:45,920 the east and then the new facility to the north that would be along Benford 1468 02:03:43,599 --> 02:03:50,639 Street. So, this was a proposal that was considered by the planning commission in 1469 02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:55,840 2021 and it was forwarded to the the city 1470 02:03:53,679 --> 02:04:01,520 council, but that's basically where where it stopped. So, 1471 02:03:59,119 --> 02:04:07,560 um yeah, so that's basically the the history that I wanted to share with with 1472 02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:07,560 you. Um 1473 02:04:07,679 --> 02:04:19,119 and so um our recommendation, sorry, go back. 1474 02:04:17,199 --> 02:04:23,520 um or the plan is that the planning commission finds that the proposed zone 1475 02:04:21,599 --> 02:04:31,840 change is consistent with the general plan and that it meets the state federal 1476 02:04:27,599 --> 02:04:37,520 laws and zone criteria in in the OMC 14-18E and recommend the city council 1477 02:04:34,719 --> 02:04:44,400 adopt the zone change as presented. So our recommendation would be to follow 1478 02:04:40,080 --> 02:04:48,040 the future land use map boundary. Um so that would be our recommendation. 1479 02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:57,520 which is >> which yeah let me get there 1480 02:04:53,360 --> 02:05:04,159 is option one. So it was the option that the planning commission originally 1481 02:05:00,719 --> 02:05:07,840 » was preferring. So and that is my presentation. So 1482 02:05:05,520 --> 02:05:10,480 » okay can you keep that on there just I want the public to look at that as well. 1483 02:05:09,599 --> 02:05:18,040 So, >> all right. Um, have any uh questions for 1484 02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:18,040 Miss Ripian from commissioners? 1485 02:05:19,199 --> 02:05:25,920 » Is there anything that would prevent the kitchens in the next week, 6 months, 1486 02:05:24,239 --> 02:05:30,719 years, whatever the case would be, to come back with a proposal that might 1487 02:05:28,719 --> 02:05:35,280 include the property that's just outside the space and request a zone change at 1488 02:05:32,639 --> 02:05:40,560 that time for just those two parcels? >> No, they would be able to do that. Okay. 1489 02:05:37,599 --> 02:05:40,560 Thank you. 1490 02:05:41,280 --> 02:05:49,440 All right. Uh, seeing none others, uh, we'll, uh, go to p our public hearing 1491 02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:54,080 portion of this. And so, we'd like to invite anybody in person or online to 1492 02:05:52,239 --> 02:05:58,320 come forward at this time and state your name if you'd like to say something. 1493 02:05:55,920 --> 02:06:02,960 Keep your comments to three minutes. Uh, and your address, please. And then also 1494 02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:06,080 if if something's already been said, we don't need to have redundancy, you know, 1495 02:06:04,560 --> 02:06:10,800 we don't just to hear about it because we we make notes and we address them per 1496 02:06:08,239 --> 02:06:17,199 item. And so, uh, if we can be mindful of that with we got a lot to go over it 1497 02:06:12,800 --> 02:06:20,719 this evening. So, uh, thank you. Oh, and one other thing. So, I had him leave 1498 02:06:18,639 --> 02:06:24,239 this up here. So, I'm curious to which option, if you don't mind sharing, if 1499 02:06:22,560 --> 02:06:29,679 you looked at it, which one you would prefer, uh, just so we have an idea of 1500 02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:35,040 what that looks like from your perspective. Thank you. 1501 02:06:31,199 --> 02:06:38,000 » Okay. I'm representing 811 Benford and option three would be best. I'm happy 1502 02:06:36,639 --> 02:06:41,119 with option two. >> And what's your name, sir? 1503 02:06:39,119 --> 02:06:47,280 » Uh, Matt Kitchen. >> Option one just does not work. Uh it 1504 02:06:44,239 --> 02:06:52,480 just seems like the word manufacturing is a dirty word or a bad word, but as 1505 02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:56,639 you I'm sure you all understand, manufacturing is the engine of the 1506 02:06:54,239 --> 02:07:03,679 economy. If we don't produce anything as a as a community, we don't create any 1507 02:06:59,920 --> 02:07:09,679 value, then all you all you've got is valets and lawyers left that are just 1508 02:07:06,320 --> 02:07:14,800 trading money around. So as a community, we want to produce something. We want to 1509 02:07:11,679 --> 02:07:20,000 make something and h and add value to our economy. That's the only way it's 1510 02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:24,079 going to work. And by going to, you know, by expanding allow us to 1511 02:07:22,239 --> 02:07:30,000 manufacture in your community, we're producing jobs. We're uh producing a 1512 02:07:27,040 --> 02:07:34,320 product which is going to in turn bring some influence there. The other thing 1513 02:07:31,679 --> 02:07:40,400 that manufacturing does in this in this where this is located, everybody knows 1514 02:07:37,360 --> 02:07:46,079 this area. It's it's kind of already there. And if anyone's 1515 02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:51,040 a homeowner there, by having the option of going manufacturing or residential, 1516 02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:55,040 it gives them the opportunity to to if they ever do sell that they're going to 1517 02:07:52,560 --> 02:08:00,159 be able to maximize the prop their profits or whatever their property, 1518 02:07:57,599 --> 02:08:05,679 whichever way, you know, it just exposes it to much more uh many more buyers. So, 1519 02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:10,320 I don't, you know, we're not asking for a huge change, but it seems like we're 1520 02:08:08,880 --> 02:08:14,880 we're right there. Everything's been noticed up and stuff. I I I don't know 1521 02:08:13,119 --> 02:08:19,280 why we would want to go through all this again. Uh, you know, years down the 1522 02:08:17,679 --> 02:08:25,040 road. We've been planning this. We've been saving for it. The freeway has 1523 02:08:21,760 --> 02:08:31,040 thrown a big stick in the spokes and that's that's prevented, you know, 1524 02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:35,199 some some of this progress. But there's no reason 1525 02:08:32,960 --> 02:08:40,400 uh you know I don't I don't know why this would harm any anyone in any way to 1526 02:08:38,159 --> 02:08:44,880 be able to do this. So yeah, option option one or I mean excuse me option 1527 02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:48,920 two or three. Okay, but not option one. >> So thank you. 1528 02:08:45,280 --> 02:08:48,920 » All right. Thank you, Mr. Kitchens. 1529 02:08:57,199 --> 02:09:08,320 » Hi, I'm Mark Kitchen. I'm representing um 875 and 835 West Benford. Um I'm an 1530 02:09:04,719 --> 02:09:14,480 owner of that those properties which is um and I'm in favor for option two, 1531 02:09:11,360 --> 02:09:19,760 preferably option three, but not option one. Uh we like uh he did really well 1532 02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:26,639 explaining I was going to put in a building there. Um M I mean right on the 1533 02:09:24,320 --> 02:09:30,880 exit of 24th Street, we have a bunch more property 1534 02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:35,599 that is M1. We were going to build a building there as well, but the city or 1535 02:09:33,440 --> 02:09:41,199 the UD do is going to come in and buy me all out and this is two years ago. They 1536 02:09:39,199 --> 02:09:45,119 were talking about buying me out, but we had several meetings with UD do. They 1537 02:09:43,119 --> 02:09:50,719 were going to come and I didn't want to sell, but they're going to put in the 1538 02:09:46,960 --> 02:09:53,679 that interchange on 24th Street. So, I was going to come in with a bunch of 1539 02:09:51,920 --> 02:09:58,560 money and I was going to put in this really nice really nice building. Um, 1540 02:09:57,040 --> 02:10:03,920 but they haven't they haven't done anything. So, I had to put it on hold 1541 02:10:01,840 --> 02:10:08,560 until, you know, who knows when they're going to but we are saving up to do this 1542 02:10:06,400 --> 02:10:16,880 and we really do want to build a n building there. Um, and we can do it 1543 02:10:12,000 --> 02:10:21,599 pretty soon. Um, we just didn't have the cash flow at the time, so we had to let 1544 02:10:18,639 --> 02:10:28,480 it lapse. Um, so that's what we did there. Um, so yeah, I'm an option of two 1545 02:10:26,719 --> 02:10:31,040 or three. Do you guys have any questions for me? I' I'd love to answer them for 1546 02:10:30,400 --> 02:10:36,159 you. >> Are your Are your properties currently 1547 02:10:33,440 --> 02:10:43,840 rented to residentially then? >> Yes, they are. And we have in this area, 1548 02:10:39,599 --> 02:10:49,840 we have 12 properties. So, and I I feel like we didn't get heard last time 1549 02:10:47,280 --> 02:10:54,800 last meeting. We I don't know if we had one spokesman and it it didn't really 1550 02:10:52,960 --> 02:11:02,800 resonate with anyone. It it seemed like to me with 12 properties. 1551 02:10:58,880 --> 02:11:09,000 So, anyway, another any other questions? >> Any other questions of commissioners? 1552 02:11:05,599 --> 02:11:09,000 » Commissioner Williams. 1553 02:11:09,119 --> 02:11:14,840 » All right. >> Okay. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Thanks. 1554 02:11:23,360 --> 02:11:30,159 This hopefully this won't be too much more of the same. I'm part of the the 1555 02:11:26,400 --> 02:11:36,639 kitchen group representing um 944 Benford um two or three. Uh if if I 1556 02:11:35,599 --> 02:11:39,840 don't know if you're all familiar with that area, but it's very mixed use right 1557 02:11:38,480 --> 02:11:45,941 now. I mean, if you drive through it, it's very chopped up. Um, so moving it 1558 02:11:44,159 --> 02:11:50,560 to something more >> [clears throat] 1559 02:11:46,159 --> 02:11:57,440 » um uniform like option three or or even expanding to option two um to me makes 1560 02:11:53,599 --> 02:12:01,280 more sense. Um, I think it would give, you know, us the opportunity and 1561 02:11:59,280 --> 02:12:06,639 flexibility to sell, especially with the new interchange coming in where 1562 02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:11,760 I think the idea for that area is that it could um, you know, become a really 1563 02:12:10,239 --> 02:12:15,840 nice part of town with the new interchange and um, some new 1564 02:12:13,360 --> 02:12:20,560 opportunities there. So having it open to M2 allows us to expand um our 1565 02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:25,119 businesses but also allows the homeowners in that area um the 1566 02:12:22,719 --> 02:12:28,960 flexibility to sell. Uh I think one thing that was brought up is that um 1567 02:12:27,440 --> 02:12:32,800 maybe a previous meeting someone said that their home insurance would would 1568 02:12:30,719 --> 02:12:37,920 maybe go up if the zoning changed. We checked with our agent and that's that's 1569 02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:44,079 not true. Well, according to them um they wouldn't see uh increases in their 1570 02:12:41,920 --> 02:12:48,079 insurance. Um that's just according to our agent. Um so so I think it would 1571 02:12:46,480 --> 02:12:54,960 have a positive impact. I don't I don't see negative impacts to it. Uh just 1572 02:12:51,599 --> 02:12:58,960 create more revenue for the um city if we were to put in a manufact another 1573 02:12:56,880 --> 02:13:03,040 manufacturing building there. Uh more jobs in the area and it's already a 1574 02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:07,040 really chopped up kind of interesting area. So to make it something more 1575 02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:11,119 uniform like option three uh makes a lot of sense to me. So 1576 02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:13,199 » are you a kitchens or you get so what's your first name? Zack. 1577 02:13:12,239 --> 02:13:15,760 » Zack. >> Okay, thank Kitchen. 1578 02:13:14,239 --> 02:13:19,599 » Just if we have any questions, I want to know which one to call. So, thank you. 1579 02:13:17,599 --> 02:13:24,040 » Sure. Yep. That's That's me. >> Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Kitchen. 1580 02:13:31,760 --> 02:13:39,440 » How you guys doing? >> Good. My name is Matthew Daniel. I'm at 1581 02:13:35,280 --> 02:13:44,880 2722 Hav. So, I'm struggling to figure out where my house sits on this map. 1582 02:13:43,599 --> 02:13:48,639 I don't know if there's anyone that could show me that. 1583 02:13:48,000 --> 02:13:52,440 » Sorry. >> Pull up a different map. 1584 02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:58,000 » I'm going to pause your time just for a second while we find that information. 1585 02:13:56,560 --> 02:14:02,960 Give you time to speak. >> Is it in that lower yellow? 1586 02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:09,159 » Let's see. You're on H and what? >> 2722. 1587 02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:09,159 So, it's in that green, right? 1588 02:14:12,159 --> 02:14:15,159 Street 1589 02:14:15,599 --> 02:14:18,840 is here. 1590 02:14:20,400 --> 02:14:24,760 No, pardon me. 272. 1591 02:14:25,280 --> 02:14:28,280 Yeah. 1592 02:14:45,360 --> 02:14:50,052 I hope. >> Oh, sorry. 1593 02:14:48,032 --> 02:14:50,052 [laughter] 1594 02:14:56,639 --> 02:15:01,199 » Right there. So, you're right in that green area right there. See where the 1595 02:14:59,280 --> 02:15:04,079 red dot is? Right in this square at the bottom. 1596 02:15:02,000 --> 02:15:09,679 » Yeah. So you would be outside of the area that's 1597 02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:15,320 » okay. So I would with the maps up there I would support option two 1598 02:15:15,920 --> 02:15:23,440 » and all the options that we don't include property 1599 02:15:21,119 --> 02:15:28,960 » right >> all of them cover you as residential. 1600 02:15:27,679 --> 02:15:33,040 » Okay. >> Thank you. 1601 02:15:29,920 --> 02:15:33,040 » That was easy. 1602 02:15:37,599 --> 02:15:43,920 What's that? Yeah, go ahead and put it up there just for funsies. 1603 02:15:41,360 --> 02:15:48,239 Is there anybody else online? 1604 02:15:44,639 --> 02:15:53,280 » So, all right. Uh, will you give us their names, Barton? 1605 02:15:51,040 --> 02:15:59,520 » Yes. Uh, what Colton call? There they are. Sorry. 1606 02:15:55,840 --> 02:16:02,760 if you would uh hold on. 1607 02:16:03,679 --> 02:16:09,760 Yeah, Colton, if you would uh say your name and you can 1608 02:16:08,480 --> 02:16:16,320 » Yeah, good evening everyone. Thank you. Yep. Colton College. Um I'm an owner at 1609 02:16:13,199 --> 02:16:19,040 834 West Oxy Street. Just just my two cents. I know we've gone quite a while 1610 02:16:17,920 --> 02:16:24,079 in this meeting tonight, so I don't want to take much much time, but I would be 1611 02:16:21,040 --> 02:16:31,040 in favor of the M2 zoning, preferably option three. Um, option two would be 1612 02:16:28,159 --> 02:16:34,800 okay. Um, but you know, I I just personally uh and respectfully ask that 1613 02:16:33,359 --> 02:16:39,599 you know that property could be included in that M2 zoning. So, thanks for your 1614 02:16:36,880 --> 02:16:45,040 time. Really appreciate it. >> Thank you, Mr. College. 1615 02:16:42,160 --> 02:16:49,719 » Okay. And then the next uh we have Becky. 1616 02:16:50,880 --> 02:16:53,760 » Can you hear me? >> Yes. 1617 02:16:53,359 --> 02:17:00,000 » Hello. >> Yes. Okay. I'm Rebecca Kitchen 1618 02:16:57,359 --> 02:17:04,800 and I own the property at 834 West Benford Street, which is on the north 1619 02:17:02,080 --> 02:17:10,719 side of Benford. So, I support the proposal to change the 1620 02:17:06,880 --> 02:17:16,000 zoning in this area to M2. Um, there's already a business on the north side of 1621 02:17:12,559 --> 02:17:20,479 Benford at G Avenue called Connected and it's only 100 feet from my property 1622 02:17:18,399 --> 02:17:25,760 and there's only two small rental houses in between that were built in 1936 and 1623 02:17:24,240 --> 02:17:31,040 1950 and also the street has heavy traffic, 1624 02:17:28,639 --> 02:17:38,479 heavy, very heavy truck traffic going to and from Cargle. Um, 1625 02:17:34,559 --> 02:17:42,800 so anyway, I am a proponent of the M2 zoning. 1626 02:17:41,200 --> 02:17:44,880 » Which option? >> Oh, 1627 02:17:43,840 --> 02:17:47,200 » option two. >> Two. 1628 02:17:45,679 --> 02:17:51,679 » N or three. >> Two or three. Okay. 1629 02:17:49,760 --> 02:17:58,960 Thank you, Miss Kitchens. >> You're welcome. 1630 02:17:53,920 --> 02:18:01,915 » Then we have uh Cody Kitchen. All right. >> Yeah. Hello. Uh my name is Cody 1631 02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:06,639 Kitchenen. >> [clears throat] 1632 02:18:02,080 --> 02:18:12,719 » um representing 833 West 27th Street. Um and I'd be in favor of option two or or 1633 02:18:09,439 --> 02:18:18,160 three. Um not to repeat too much, I just feel like it'd be a positive thing. Um 1634 02:18:15,599 --> 02:18:22,479 job creation and and growth in the economy. Um you know, like was said 1635 02:18:20,639 --> 02:18:27,519 earlier, I just think there's value in producing something and um it's already 1636 02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:32,439 mixed. So I appreciate your time. Thank you. 1637 02:18:28,800 --> 02:18:32,439 » Thank you, Miss Kittens. 1638 02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:38,319 Okay, that was all the people we had raising hands online. 1639 02:18:37,120 --> 02:18:42,479 » All right. Is anybody else in the audience like to say anything? All 1640 02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:46,960 right. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing for item number six? 1641 02:18:45,200 --> 02:18:50,800 » So moved. >> Second. 1642 02:18:48,479 --> 02:18:53,679 » Motion uh by Commissioner Shenotto, second by Commissioner Humphre. All in 1643 02:18:52,880 --> 02:18:58,080 favor? >> I. 1644 02:18:55,439 --> 02:19:03,639 » All right. We'll bring this back to commissioners uh for discussion. So, 1645 02:19:05,200 --> 02:19:11,519 I know we chose option one, but uh sounds like 1646 02:19:09,519 --> 02:19:15,120 » option two is not that much different and those homeowners are the ones that 1647 02:19:13,679 --> 02:19:18,120 have been speaking. >> Yeah. 1648 02:19:21,280 --> 02:19:29,359 » What? Okay. does mean. >> Oh, does it 1649 02:19:26,399 --> 02:19:31,679 » does it require we Yeah, we move it forward. So, it would require another 1650 02:19:30,960 --> 02:19:37,439 one. So, >> I believe you you could uh choose option 1651 02:19:35,359 --> 02:19:41,040 any of the three options >> and that would be it come back. 1652 02:19:39,920 --> 02:19:44,479 » They wouldn't have to come back because we this is our 1653 02:19:43,679 --> 02:19:46,000 » Yeah. >> Okay. 1654 02:19:45,439 --> 02:19:52,880 » Okay. >> Okay. That's good. We have options. 1655 02:19:49,120 --> 02:19:58,520 » I'm good with option two. Well, >> I don't know. 1656 02:19:53,760 --> 02:19:58,520 » What's the feel from the commissioners? 1657 02:20:03,200 --> 02:20:11,439 » I think historically there's no question that everything south of Benford is 1658 02:20:08,240 --> 02:20:17,680 likely in option three is likely to turn manufacturing at some point in time. 1659 02:20:15,600 --> 02:20:21,200 But, you know, UD do's also going to at some point in time in the next 50 years 1660 02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:26,160 decide whether they will or will not build an interchange that they've been 1661 02:20:22,640 --> 02:20:31,520 trying to build for four decades. So, my faith in how quickly any of this happens 1662 02:20:28,880 --> 02:20:35,760 is small. But I am concerned in West Ogden in 1663 02:20:33,680 --> 02:20:40,000 particular, as much as we want to do things better, that there's nowhere near 1664 02:20:37,680 --> 02:20:45,200 enough inventory for those who may be displaced to be able to find a space to 1665 02:20:42,800 --> 02:20:51,200 be. And considering that that has the lowest property values in the city, even 1666 02:20:48,160 --> 02:20:58,080 those folks who sell are going to struggle to find a place in 1667 02:20:55,200 --> 02:21:04,319 the wider area to live. And we have not planned, prepared, 1668 02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:11,399 or we have nothing in front of us or or or you know any potential folks to help 1669 02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:11,399 offset those losses. 1670 02:21:12,720 --> 02:21:17,439 Sure. >> Go ahead. Commissioner, 1671 02:21:15,439 --> 02:21:22,960 » the reason why we chose option one last time was 1672 02:21:19,200 --> 02:21:30,479 to preserve the homeowners and to keep to keep that area 1673 02:21:27,600 --> 02:21:34,359 residential so they could stay in their homes. 1674 02:21:35,120 --> 02:21:42,319 So, option one 1675 02:21:39,760 --> 02:21:47,319 keeps more people in their residential homes. 1676 02:21:51,359 --> 02:21:58,640 A question for the realtors that we have on the commission would be something I 1677 02:21:56,720 --> 02:22:03,840 I'm thinking I'm only making assumption, but if we were going from residential to 1678 02:22:01,359 --> 02:22:07,680 mixed use, the value of the property is going to go up with or without the 1679 02:22:05,359 --> 02:22:12,399 building on it, but going from individual residentials to manufacturing 1680 02:22:10,160 --> 02:22:16,479 means the value of the land likely goes down 1681 02:22:14,960 --> 02:22:20,560 because manufacturing wants a lot more space. Well, when you go to 1682 02:22:17,439 --> 02:22:24,800 manufacturing, they're going to look at price per square foot of the land. The, 1683 02:22:23,680 --> 02:22:27,040 you know, the homes are going to be demolished. 1684 02:22:25,600 --> 02:22:29,840 » No one's going to want to buy the prop the structure on the property. 1685 02:22:29,040 --> 02:22:34,720 » So, >> I don't think they'd pay fair market 1686 02:22:31,840 --> 02:22:41,600 value for a residential property. They'd be looking at the land value more than 1687 02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:45,359 the residential value. So for those who would want to sell to 1688 02:22:43,359 --> 02:22:52,960 leave the area that aren't renting from the predominant owner of the properties, 1689 02:22:48,880 --> 02:22:56,399 their land value will be lower. >> Correct. And that's what they were 1690 02:22:54,720 --> 02:23:01,200 talking about when we had our last meeting. That's what the residents were 1691 02:22:58,640 --> 02:23:05,280 concerned about. >> Okay. 1692 02:23:02,800 --> 02:23:09,200 One thing that was brought up is um those properties we're talking about are 1693 02:23:06,800 --> 02:23:14,000 being rented right now and the owners of those properties are the ones wanting it 1694 02:23:11,840 --> 02:23:16,399 resed. So they're not going to lose any money that because they're asking for 1695 02:23:15,920 --> 02:23:18,960 it. >> Absolutely. 1696 02:23:17,280 --> 02:23:23,200 » And these aren't owned by the people living there. They're owned by 1697 02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:27,800 » Well, not all of them, but some of them. They're just these three that are 1698 02:23:24,560 --> 02:23:27,800 difference between 1699 02:23:27,920 --> 02:23:32,080 » because those are all three property of the 1700 02:23:30,720 --> 02:23:36,479 » and they're being rented >> to family and they're being rented. 1701 02:23:35,359 --> 02:23:40,680 » Okay. >> So, I'm good with option two. 1702 02:23:42,640 --> 02:23:47,359 Mock, you look like you've had a comment before. Sorry. 1703 02:23:45,520 --> 02:23:51,280 » Yeah. No, I was just saying, you know, the only difference between one and two 1704 02:23:49,359 --> 02:23:53,040 looks like just those three. So, >> yeah. 1705 02:23:51,760 --> 02:23:56,319 » And so, They were requesting that then, 1706 02:23:55,040 --> 02:23:59,040 » right? That's >> okay. 1707 02:23:56,960 --> 02:24:03,200 » All right. Um, I'm going to back up a little bit here real quick. Uh, so out 1708 02:24:01,520 --> 02:24:06,399 of all the public comments that we did receive, were there really any concerns 1709 02:24:04,880 --> 02:24:11,680 that we need to answer? Because all of them were kind of in affirmative for 1710 02:24:09,359 --> 02:24:15,600 option two or three and getting the most value. I didn't Is there anything we 1711 02:24:14,000 --> 02:24:20,640 need to address that was of a concern that we need to answer? I I didn't catch 1712 02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:24,399 any from the note I wrote down. just a >> I was just going through my email to 1713 02:24:22,880 --> 02:24:29,439 look for exactly what you were talking about and I could find anything that was 1714 02:24:27,600 --> 02:24:35,280 not the kitchens. >> I don't know if anything 1715 02:24:31,840 --> 02:24:41,520 » I mean I after our last meeting I was you know solidly in favor of option one 1716 02:24:37,439 --> 02:24:47,040 but I don't think that option two is a significant change and it grants the 1717 02:24:44,479 --> 02:24:52,800 request to the property owner. So, >> I'm comfortable I'm comfortable with 1718 02:24:48,399 --> 02:24:59,040 option two. I think option three impacts too many residences and it doesn't 1719 02:24:55,439 --> 02:25:04,640 preclude I mean I think the the the biggest unknown here is if and when 1720 02:25:02,080 --> 02:25:09,840 you do ever comes up with a I mean at some point when that happens I think 1721 02:25:06,880 --> 02:25:14,720 we're going to be reviewing the entire area again. 1722 02:25:11,359 --> 02:25:18,880 » Mhm. I think option two is probably a reasonable middle ground that 1723 02:25:17,040 --> 02:25:23,359 addresses property owners that have existing 1724 02:25:21,359 --> 02:25:30,596 businesses and desires to potentially expand it. Also, I mean, I've spent some 1725 02:25:28,399 --> 02:25:34,640 time out there driving around and, [snorts] you know, there's there's a mix 1726 02:25:31,920 --> 02:25:39,760 out there, but there's a there's a good little core of of well-maintained old 1727 02:25:38,000 --> 02:25:43,040 older homes that show pride of ownership. I'm I'm comfortable with 1728 02:25:42,000 --> 02:25:45,439 option two. >> Yeah. 1729 02:25:43,760 --> 02:25:46,880 » Okay. Sounds like we're all kind of on the same page. 1730 02:25:46,160 --> 02:25:55,319 » No, we're not. >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead. 1731 02:25:48,319 --> 02:25:55,319 » Option option two. Those cutouts um 1732 02:25:55,359 --> 02:26:04,800 threaten the homeowners on on either side. So, I I don't like option two. I 1733 02:26:01,520 --> 02:26:10,439 like a nice big solid block of residential, not uh cutouts, not the 1734 02:26:07,439 --> 02:26:10,439 zigzag. 1735 02:26:13,200 --> 02:26:25,680 I think we have to consider um the kitchen's private property rights though 1736 02:26:19,439 --> 02:26:31,120 and if they want to change their zoning for their private property that should 1737 02:26:28,720 --> 02:26:34,840 be considered. If that creates a cutout then so be it. 1738 02:26:38,160 --> 02:26:42,960 Mhm. >> We don't we don't have to consider 1739 02:26:40,319 --> 02:26:47,920 individual property rights. We're looking at 1740 02:26:44,720 --> 02:26:53,520 zoning of a neighborhood as a whole and what we 1741 02:26:49,760 --> 02:27:01,920 envision it to be in the future. So the houses in the residential cutouts 1742 02:26:57,840 --> 02:27:07,280 of option two are going to be right next to manufacturing. 1743 02:27:04,240 --> 02:27:15,040 Whereas in an option one, at least you have uh a nice 1744 02:27:10,720 --> 02:27:19,240 straight swath of neighbors that can hang out. It's contiguous. 1745 02:27:20,479 --> 02:27:25,520 » So if that cutout wasn't there, was straight across, you'd be in favor of 1746 02:27:23,760 --> 02:27:28,160 option two. >> Just a question. 1747 02:27:27,120 --> 02:27:30,800 » That would be a square. >> That's option one. 1748 02:27:28,880 --> 02:27:35,439 » That's option one. >> Well, it goes it goes further though. go 1749 02:27:32,720 --> 02:27:39,200 clear over to the kitchens property. So >> it does. So it does 1750 02:27:36,800 --> 02:27:43,600 » I'm immunable to option two, but I understand where Commissioner Shenot is 1751 02:27:41,040 --> 02:27:46,399 coming from in the sense that where are those people going to go? 1752 02:27:46,000 --> 02:27:50,560 » So >> based on median household income, fact, 1753 02:27:48,800 --> 02:27:56,560 we know that that's a bluecollar neighborhood. Um property values are a 1754 02:27:53,600 --> 02:28:01,680 little lower to begin with. >> There's already a housing crisis that 1755 02:27:58,640 --> 02:28:09,280 exists in our area. costs are rising every day. I'm concerned that we're 1756 02:28:06,479 --> 02:28:12,399 putting the cart before the horse. I mean, I'd feel a lot more comfortable if 1757 02:28:10,800 --> 02:28:16,160 UD do actually had money and was going to do something and that would suggest 1758 02:28:14,720 --> 02:28:20,880 that other people are going to develop other housing opportunities in the area 1759 02:28:17,920 --> 02:28:26,680 as well. But right now, they're not. All we're looking at is displacing people. 1760 02:28:29,200 --> 02:28:37,040 And we have we have four parcels there. >> They're all owned by the kitchens. So I 1761 02:28:35,760 --> 02:28:39,920 have to respect where they're coming from. 1762 02:28:38,080 --> 02:28:44,080 » But I also understand where Commissioner Shenoton is coming from. The an island 1763 02:28:42,240 --> 02:28:49,359 like that makes the property on either side of a new manufacturing space less 1764 02:28:47,200 --> 02:28:52,880 desirable for residential. It doesn't mean it can't be sold as residential. I 1765 02:28:51,600 --> 02:28:57,760 don't know what will or will not happen to those property values, but it's 1766 02:28:54,560 --> 02:29:00,880 certainly less desirable to live next to a manufacturing plant than it is to live 1767 02:28:59,680 --> 02:29:05,359 next to another house. >> Right. 1768 02:29:02,880 --> 02:29:08,399 That's what kind of surprised me when >> Go ahead, Commissioner Williams. 1769 02:29:06,720 --> 02:29:11,600 » Sorry. No, you go ahead, Chair. I apologize. 1770 02:29:09,680 --> 02:29:15,840 » Uh, you know, when we drove through the neighborhoods, I was surprised. One of 1771 02:29:13,359 --> 02:29:19,760 the petition, one of the public comments was how cut up the block. Like, there's 1772 02:29:18,240 --> 02:29:22,640 so much inner Nick. So, it's it surprised me. I hadn't been out that far 1773 02:29:21,120 --> 02:29:26,800 for a while. I go to the archery range and you know used to ride my motorcycle 1774 02:29:25,120 --> 02:29:30,800 out there behind Pillsbury all the time, but you know I it surprised me how much 1775 02:29:29,120 --> 02:29:34,720 there is intermixed in between everything. So I I don't think you get 1776 02:29:32,399 --> 02:29:39,680 away from being next to a manufacturing or or you know type of stuff. Uh it's 1777 02:29:37,600 --> 02:29:45,680 just the nature of where the area is going. But just my two cents. So go 1778 02:29:43,359 --> 02:29:51,520 ahead, Commissioner Williams. Well, that was my comment is that that area is so 1779 02:29:47,840 --> 02:29:58,240 chopped up already and I always I'm just so in favor of 1780 02:29:54,560 --> 02:30:04,240 personal property rights that um it's really hard to 1781 02:30:00,720 --> 02:30:06,880 put zoning over a personal property right, especially when you have an 1782 02:30:05,600 --> 02:30:13,040 entire family. And it's not like they're, you know, they're making 1783 02:30:08,800 --> 02:30:18,160 kennels. They're not making bombs or whatever, you know, it's not. 1784 02:30:16,000 --> 02:30:21,920 » And everyone who lives out there lives out there and they know they're in 1785 02:30:19,920 --> 02:30:25,359 manufacturing areas. 1786 02:30:24,479 --> 02:30:34,000 » Okay. >> The the future land use map is 1787 02:30:30,160 --> 02:30:39,040 is changing the zoning on multiple property rights. So, 1788 02:30:37,200 --> 02:30:44,240 » I understand that. But those people aren't here arguing for their property 1789 02:30:41,120 --> 02:30:46,880 rights. They're not showing up over and over again. 1790 02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:50,960 » And we have two people here in support of it that are live right in the middle 1791 02:30:49,040 --> 02:30:54,080 of it. So, yeah. >> Well, that's because we cut their houses 1792 02:30:52,399 --> 02:30:58,880 out at their request. >> Well, yeah. 1793 02:30:56,399 --> 02:31:02,399 » Yeah. So, anyhow, 1794 02:30:59,680 --> 02:31:06,000 » could this might not be available, but could we see what the zoning is right 1795 02:31:03,920 --> 02:31:11,880 now? Do you happen to have a slide of that? 1796 02:31:08,640 --> 02:31:11,880 » Yeah, that's 1797 02:31:11,920 --> 02:31:19,280 » it's right there. >> Right. So, 1798 02:31:14,399 --> 02:31:23,520 » yeah. So, the green yellow is R15 and then yeah, the light light pink is 1799 02:31:21,920 --> 02:31:29,840 M1. The darker pink is M2. 1800 02:31:26,319 --> 02:31:32,840 And then the red with the hatch is C3 CO. 1801 02:31:36,319 --> 02:31:44,120 So, we've got a mix. >> Yeah, it's just these were talking about 1802 02:31:39,920 --> 02:31:44,120 everything is the same. 1803 02:31:44,399 --> 02:31:47,399 » Okay. 1804 02:31:47,439 --> 02:31:53,120 » I mean, is including those, too. >> Somebody make a motion. Let's 1805 02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:57,240 » Yeah, I see. I think we just need to make some decision individually. 1806 02:31:57,680 --> 02:32:02,640 » I think Commissioner Humphre or Commissioner Shenot should make a 1807 02:32:00,720 --> 02:32:07,640 motion. [laughter] All right, I'll make a motion uh 1808 02:32:04,640 --> 02:32:07,640 regarding 1809 02:32:08,560 --> 02:32:15,359 West Ogden area zone change between the east side of I-15 from F Avenue to H 1810 02:32:13,280 --> 02:32:21,880 Avenue and approximately from Benford Street to Doxy Street associated with 1811 02:32:17,439 --> 02:32:21,880 future land use map 1812 02:32:22,160 --> 02:32:29,680 finding that the proposed zone change 1813 02:32:27,359 --> 02:32:36,600 changes are consistent with the general plan, state and federal Paul and the 1814 02:32:32,479 --> 02:32:36,600 zone change criteria in OMC14-18-4E 1815 02:32:38,160 --> 02:32:48,560 move I move to recommend I move to 1816 02:32:45,120 --> 02:32:54,760 recommend that the city council adopt the zone change as presented in option 1817 02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:54,760 one 1818 02:32:55,040 --> 02:33:01,439 » I have a motion from commissioner Cernoda do I have a second [snorts] 1819 02:32:59,520 --> 02:33:04,479 » I'll second the motion Second from Commissioner South. 1820 02:33:03,439 --> 02:33:10,560 » We can discuss and vote. >> Yes, this will be Yes. This will be a 1821 02:33:06,960 --> 02:33:13,600 roll call vote. So, Miss Pagano. >> Commissioner Amada. 1822 02:33:12,399 --> 02:33:17,280 » No. >> Commissioner Humphre. 1823 02:33:15,200 --> 02:33:19,920 » No. >> Commissioner Sando. 1824 02:33:18,640 --> 02:33:23,520 » No. >> Commissioner Southwick. 1825 02:33:21,760 --> 02:33:26,960 » Yes. >> Commissioner Williams? 1826 02:33:25,200 --> 02:33:29,600 » No. >> Commissioner Shenoda? 1827 02:33:28,240 --> 02:33:32,160 » Yes. Chair Ross. 1828 02:33:30,560 --> 02:33:35,439 » No. All right. Uh, that'll go on to the city 1829 02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:37,680 council and >> we can revote. 1830 02:33:35,920 --> 02:33:42,000 » Oh, I guess we can revote. Okay. >> We can do another motion. 1831 02:33:39,200 --> 02:33:46,080 » So, uh, does someone want to make another motion 1832 02:33:43,520 --> 02:33:51,280 or do we are we okay with what that is knowing that it's going to go to another 1833 02:33:47,520 --> 02:33:57,280 council to also have debates and see our minutes and notes and conversations and 1834 02:33:54,560 --> 02:34:03,040 what was been in this meeting. Um, I can make a motion. I just don't 1835 02:33:59,439 --> 02:34:06,560 know how to do it with all these um roads. 1836 02:34:04,000 --> 02:34:14,240 » So, I could just say um West Ogden area zone change option two. Make a motion to 1837 02:34:10,800 --> 02:34:19,280 accept to send option two to the city council for 1838 02:34:16,800 --> 02:34:23,120 um approval or whatever. I can't get my 1839 02:34:20,080 --> 02:34:27,920 » Does that suffice, Barton? He's g. So, good good job. There we So, I have a a 1840 02:34:25,040 --> 02:34:31,200 motion from Commissioner Sandow. Is there a second? 1841 02:34:30,160 --> 02:34:36,640 » I second. >> A second from Commissioner Odo. Uh, 1842 02:34:34,319 --> 02:34:39,280 again, roll call vote. >> Commissioner Amad, 1843 02:34:38,080 --> 02:34:41,920 » yes. >> Commissioner Humphre, 1844 02:34:40,640 --> 02:34:44,479 » yes. >> Commissioner Sando, 1845 02:34:43,359 --> 02:34:47,960 » yes. >> Commissioner Southwick, 1846 02:34:52,319 --> 02:34:58,160 » yes. Commissioner Williams, 1847 02:34:55,760 --> 02:35:01,840 » yes. >> Commissioner Shenoda, 1848 02:34:59,359 --> 02:35:04,399 » no. >> Chair Ross, 1849 02:35:02,880 --> 02:35:08,720 » yes. Thank you. That passes. We'll go on to 1850 02:35:06,479 --> 02:35:12,720 city council for their decisions. So, Commissioner Shota, 1851 02:35:11,200 --> 02:35:15,520 you you've already spoken on, but you want like one last. 1852 02:35:13,840 --> 02:35:17,040 » Yeah, [laughter] I don't have anything to add. 1853 02:35:16,160 --> 02:35:21,760 » Thank you. Thank you. >> So, all right. We move on to item number 1854 02:35:19,760 --> 02:35:27,280 seven. Uh public hearing of the Harrison Boulevard 24th to 25th Street mixeduse 1855 02:35:24,640 --> 02:35:34,080 zoning text mixeduse master plan and the zone change. Um Mr. 1856 02:35:31,680 --> 02:35:37,319 Bileley right Barton >> you're up. 1857 02:35:39,840 --> 02:35:42,840 Yeah. 1858 02:35:50,560 --> 02:35:55,040 Usually there's >> Hey, 1859 02:35:53,040 --> 02:36:01,120 » good evening. >> Good evening. [laughter] 1860 02:35:56,960 --> 02:36:07,120 » So, this is a hearing to consider a uh mixeduse zone text amendment, master 1861 02:36:04,720 --> 02:36:12,000 plan, and zone change. And there's a bunch of things to consider in this. 1862 02:36:08,960 --> 02:36:16,800 This is a the third time we've had uh consideration of this area, which is 1863 02:36:14,240 --> 02:36:20,560 fun. >> Start. Can I get one clarification? 1864 02:36:18,560 --> 02:36:24,399 » Yes. Are we voting on three separate things, A, B, and C, or is this all 1865 02:36:22,880 --> 02:36:29,040 Okay, you'll clarify that then. >> Yes, it's three separate things. It can 1866 02:36:27,120 --> 02:36:31,439 be one motion, but there are three separate things. 1867 02:36:29,760 --> 02:36:34,319 » Okay. One Oh, that's what I was asking. >> I like that. Can you line them all up 1868 02:36:32,880 --> 02:36:37,280 like that? That's I'm just kidding. >> Yes, you can do one motion. 1869 02:36:35,760 --> 02:36:42,960 » Okay, great. >> Yeah. So, yes, the first would be a 1870 02:36:40,160 --> 02:36:48,560 zoning ordinance text amendment. uh because a mixeduse zone is not an 1871 02:36:46,720 --> 02:36:52,960 offtheshelf off therackck uh zone. It's got to do a 1872 02:36:50,800 --> 02:36:58,960 custom fit. So there is a particular zoning text that you have to adopt a 1873 02:36:55,600 --> 02:37:02,399 master plan for that area and then the zone change. 1874 02:37:00,880 --> 02:37:06,319 So I wanted to just back up and say why are 1875 02:37:04,319 --> 02:37:12,479 we doing this? We've just uh done a general plan. We've engaged the 1876 02:37:08,240 --> 02:37:18,880 community uh and had incredible um input from a broad spectrum of the 1877 02:37:16,319 --> 02:37:23,120 community. Uh there were a number of things that really resonated with a lot 1878 02:37:20,960 --> 02:37:27,359 of people. One of them is to have a neighborhood center. have something 1879 02:37:24,960 --> 02:37:33,520 where you can walk in short distance where you might be able to to buy 1880 02:37:30,880 --> 02:37:39,359 something or go to church or go to a park or, you know, maybe get your 1881 02:37:36,640 --> 02:37:44,160 haircut or any sorts of things, places that are close to you that really 1882 02:37:40,800 --> 02:37:49,439 resonated with our community. And uh so we adopted we recommended that as part 1883 02:37:46,640 --> 02:37:56,640 of the general plan. Uh we described what this a neighborhood center could be 1884 02:37:52,800 --> 02:38:00,800 and it' be a a small pocket of commercial or institutional style 1885 02:37:59,040 --> 02:38:04,479 buildings, walkable commercial nodes that connect 1886 02:38:02,560 --> 02:38:08,880 residential neighborhoods to cafes, parks, gathering spaces, and smallcale 1887 02:38:06,880 --> 02:38:14,080 services to help maintain the vibrance of neighborhoods. So that was the vision 1888 02:38:12,800 --> 02:38:18,640 that we would have these neighborhood centers throughout the community. And 1889 02:38:16,000 --> 02:38:23,280 then looking at the map, one of the areas that uh we saw 1890 02:38:21,520 --> 02:38:29,280 would make a great community center and really is a community center is on 25th 1891 02:38:26,960 --> 02:38:35,439 and Harrison between 24th and 25th Street. And so as part of the general 1892 02:38:32,720 --> 02:38:41,520 plan, uh we recommended that that be a neighborhood center. And then we looked 1893 02:38:37,920 --> 02:38:46,560 at the the zoning of what a neighborhood center should be and can have a 1894 02:38:44,720 --> 02:38:50,160 different zonings because you could have a a residential component, you have a 1895 02:38:48,479 --> 02:38:55,040 mixeduse component, a commercial component, offices. So there's all these 1896 02:38:53,040 --> 02:39:01,840 zones that uh could fit within a neighborhood center. Um the one that did 1897 02:38:58,479 --> 02:39:10,399 not fit in a uh neighborhood center was R4 is a little higher density housing 1898 02:39:05,359 --> 02:39:15,840 than would be envisioned because we said homes would be or it' be mostly house 1899 02:39:12,800 --> 02:39:18,640 scale. So think about the scale of a typical house with some block scale 1900 02:39:17,439 --> 02:39:22,880 buildings which might be a little bit bigger. So the R4 just didn't really fit 1901 02:39:20,800 --> 02:39:27,439 that vision. So as part of the general plan like with the previous one uh we 1902 02:39:25,120 --> 02:39:34,399 said hey let's make the zoning match the plan. So, we had recommended a change to 1903 02:39:30,319 --> 02:39:39,040 the R4 zoning and uh we had public comment on that and there was a desire 1904 02:39:36,640 --> 02:39:44,160 from a number of the property owners to make this a mixeduse zone. And then we 1905 02:39:41,520 --> 02:39:49,760 had the hearing last month and one of the directions that you said was well 1906 02:39:46,880 --> 02:39:54,479 you doing on the west side of Harrison but we also have these uh neighborhood 1907 02:39:51,840 --> 02:39:59,359 commercials on and offices on the east side. would you propose would you look 1908 02:39:57,280 --> 02:40:05,120 at uh including those also in the mixeduse zone? So that's what we're here 1909 02:40:02,319 --> 02:40:11,359 this week for. So current [clears throat] land uses to 1910 02:40:07,120 --> 02:40:18,000 the west of uh Harrison. You've got some uh several homes there. You've got uh 1911 02:40:14,880 --> 02:40:23,280 the one home in the upper left was an office at one point. You've the the top 1912 02:40:20,640 --> 02:40:29,920 there that was a original mansion. Then it was a uh um converted to a 1913 02:40:26,880 --> 02:40:34,479 chiropractic clinic for a while. The building on the bottom was a pharmacy. 1914 02:40:32,479 --> 02:40:40,240 Remember the the park there used to be a hospital. That's why you have this sort 1915 02:40:36,800 --> 02:40:46,560 of concentration of uses in this area. Um and then looking at the east side, 1916 02:40:42,560 --> 02:40:49,920 you have a uh service station there. You have some personal service uses. You 1917 02:40:48,479 --> 02:40:54,960 have a home that's been converted to personal services and then a service 1918 02:40:52,399 --> 02:41:03,359 station that's been converted to more of a personal services use and uh and a 1919 02:40:58,319 --> 02:41:08,399 couple homes there that uh and a duplex. So the changes from when you heard this 1920 02:41:06,560 --> 02:41:12,319 math last month uh we've added the properties on the east side of Harrison. 1921 02:41:10,560 --> 02:41:17,760 Uh there was some comment about the height limit. We proposed a 35 ft height 1922 02:41:14,479 --> 02:41:23,600 limit. Um you discussed that uh perhaps you'd want it a little bit more for more 1923 02:41:20,240 --> 02:41:29,280 the block scale uh maybe more like three or four story buildings. So we uh 1924 02:41:26,640 --> 02:41:33,439 increase that to 45 ft. Um had a lot of discussion about the 1925 02:41:31,280 --> 02:41:38,080 setback on Harrison. So we proposed reducing that from 20T 10 ft and I'll 1926 02:41:35,840 --> 02:41:42,960 discuss that more in my presentation. I also had some discussion about the 1927 02:41:39,840 --> 02:41:48,399 minimum lot size. Uh we proposed that to be 5,000 square ft. So, we reduce that 1928 02:41:45,600 --> 02:41:54,319 to 2500 square feet. And we've updated the master plan to 1929 02:41:51,200 --> 02:42:00,800 include the uh properties on the east side. The master plan discusses what 1930 02:41:58,160 --> 02:42:07,840 kinds of uses these properties could be to. Um the overall idea of a a mixuse 1931 02:42:05,600 --> 02:42:12,800 zone is that you have a mix of land uses. uh residential development shall 1932 02:42:10,880 --> 02:42:19,120 not exceed more than 80% of the total ground floor area because sometimes when 1933 02:42:15,520 --> 02:42:24,560 we do a mixeduse plan then people say oh I can put apartments there and so that's 1934 02:42:20,880 --> 02:42:29,200 all you get you don't get the mix so um so it is wanting to have a mix of land 1935 02:42:27,439 --> 02:42:37,200 use and that's why we're recommending that along Harrison Boulevard that uh 1936 02:42:33,760 --> 02:42:41,680 you can have multi uh what we call mixed use dwellings so upper floor 1937 02:42:39,280 --> 02:42:46,479 residential, but let's keep the the ground floor as a non-residential use. 1938 02:42:43,840 --> 02:42:50,720 So, uh use like this, uh I know this was one thing that this is currently in zone 1939 02:42:48,399 --> 02:42:56,479 R4, and that was always a little bit uncomfortable for potential reuses of 1940 02:42:53,280 --> 02:43:02,640 that. So, the mixed use would allow uh a variety of of uh commercial and 1941 02:42:59,760 --> 02:43:09,280 services, office uses in this building. Um, again, this building uh could be 1942 02:43:06,160 --> 02:43:14,880 either an office or potentially at some point a mixeduse building. 1943 02:43:12,319 --> 02:43:18,800 Uh, there's some homes in this area. I mentioned the one on the left was an 1944 02:43:16,319 --> 02:43:22,720 office at some point. Uh, you know, the other homes in the area. The zoning 1945 02:43:21,359 --> 02:43:26,399 would allow them to stay. That's one thing I want to emphasize. If you want 1946 02:43:24,880 --> 02:43:31,520 to just keep it as a house, you can keep it as a house. Um, if it burns down, you 1947 02:43:29,280 --> 02:43:36,560 can rebuild a house. Um, you know, the zoning would allow it to remain as a 1948 02:43:34,160 --> 02:43:44,399 house. Uh, but the mixed use would allow that if you wanted to convert it to a a 1949 02:43:40,399 --> 02:43:50,640 lawyer's office, a nail salon, a a little commercial shop or so, you could 1950 02:43:47,840 --> 02:43:55,359 do that also in the zoning much like uh this bu this one building has been. This 1951 02:43:53,120 --> 02:43:58,720 former home has been converted to a salon 1952 02:43:57,200 --> 02:44:02,160 and there could be new buildings there. And this 1953 02:44:00,479 --> 02:44:07,680 you know, the audience hasn't seen this. This is just an artist rendering. Um, 1954 02:44:05,359 --> 02:44:12,000 it's not anything that anybody proposed, but it's something I think would fit 1955 02:44:10,080 --> 02:44:17,040 nicely in there. A couple story building, maybe a ground floor um 1956 02:44:15,120 --> 02:44:23,439 commercial use with some upper floor residential in there. 1957 02:44:20,399 --> 02:44:27,840 And uh part of it would propose keeping the East Central guidelines there. So, 1958 02:44:26,399 --> 02:44:34,560 you know, the designs here like the brick and the the more classic roof 1959 02:44:30,800 --> 02:44:38,160 styles and other items for that. So the 1960 02:44:36,640 --> 02:44:42,640 with the mixed use zoning, it would allow, you know, number one there, 1961 02:44:40,399 --> 02:44:48,720 single household dwellings, um, duplexes, town houses, new ones would 1962 02:44:46,080 --> 02:44:52,560 again not be, uh, along the Harrison Street frontage, but you could do 1963 02:44:50,080 --> 02:44:57,120 mixeduse dwellings and other uses, schools, churches, daycarees, office, 1964 02:44:54,800 --> 02:45:02,000 retail sales, restaurants, personal services. 1965 02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:08,720 Now on the setbacks, I know you got some very thoughtful uh input on setbacks and 1966 02:45:05,520 --> 02:45:13,920 we appreciate that. Um so we did look carefully at what the setbacks are. 1967 02:45:10,479 --> 02:45:19,439 There's uh I mentioned on the side se streets is mostly a 20 foot setback. Um 1968 02:45:17,120 --> 02:45:27,200 so we're recommending it stay at 20 ft on the side streets on Harrison 1969 02:45:23,200 --> 02:45:30,720 Boulevard. It uh was historically more office uses in there. there were 1970 02:45:29,359 --> 02:45:34,399 several buildings that were built very close to the property line and you know 1971 02:45:32,800 --> 02:45:40,800 streets been widened over time and stuff like that. So, we looked um the average 1972 02:45:37,120 --> 02:45:47,600 setback along Harrison Boulevard's 19T, median's 18 feet there approximately. Uh 1973 02:45:44,640 --> 02:45:52,160 but there are I counted four properties that are less than 10 ft. Some that are 1974 02:45:50,240 --> 02:45:56,479 just like right up to the where the property line is because you have the 1975 02:45:54,479 --> 02:46:01,279 curb, the planter strip, the sidewalk, and then there's even space behind the 1976 02:45:58,240 --> 02:46:06,240 sidewalk in the right way. So uh so based on that 1977 02:46:03,200 --> 02:46:09,359 we looked at the really thinking you know how close 1978 02:46:07,840 --> 02:46:16,240 should that go in [snorts] be if that came in um I think a zero setback would 1979 02:46:12,880 --> 02:46:23,040 be probably too close but keeping others would be fitting 10 ft 1980 02:46:19,200 --> 02:46:26,240 uh seem to be right based on the um feeling of the neighborhood the 1981 02:46:24,399 --> 02:46:30,319 buildings that are closer they can stay there um if they wanted to demo and 1982 02:46:28,960 --> 02:46:36,720 rebuild But then they'd have to meet the 10 foot setback. But that's certainly 1983 02:46:32,319 --> 02:46:43,680 something you can talk about there. Um made the other changes that we noticed 1984 02:46:39,760 --> 02:46:48,800 that I mentioned there. So the recommendation would be for the mixeduse 1985 02:46:46,960 --> 02:46:55,439 zone, the map. Um I did want to point out 1986 02:46:52,880 --> 02:47:00,800 there's a couple kind of on the edge here. Um 1170 1987 02:46:58,960 --> 02:47:04,880 Capitol Street is a single family dwelling. I know we talked about this 1988 02:47:02,319 --> 02:47:11,359 last month and uh there were a couple others there. Um we actually did get a 1989 02:47:09,120 --> 02:47:16,800 couple letters from the property owners there who do not want to be mixed use. 1990 02:47:14,479 --> 02:47:23,439 They would like to keep it in a residential zone. Um and staff would 1991 02:47:21,040 --> 02:47:27,120 concur with that. Uh I think this particular 1992 02:47:25,040 --> 02:47:31,600 property is better suited for just a residential zone. It's not along 1993 02:47:28,720 --> 02:47:37,359 Harrison. Um and we need single family homes. So and then likewise the 1216 1994 02:47:35,120 --> 02:47:41,920 25th street. I think the zone boundary just got drawn straight when it was a 1995 02:47:39,760 --> 02:47:51,120 professional office included this one house. Again it's not on the main drag. 1996 02:47:47,439 --> 02:47:54,800 So, uh, we would recommend, um, not including those in mixed use, 1997 02:47:53,200 --> 02:48:00,720 but again, that's something you can decide. So, oh, there here's what those 1998 02:47:57,200 --> 02:48:04,640 two homes would look like. So, looking at the criteria, uh, the 1999 02:48:03,120 --> 02:48:09,200 mixeduse zone master plan does promote the things 2000 02:48:07,439 --> 02:48:14,960 that supposed to be compact, efficient form, mobility, and connectivity. Need 2001 02:48:11,439 --> 02:48:21,680 to point out it's the the OGX stopped there. OGX is really doing well and you 2002 02:48:19,439 --> 02:48:26,800 ride it you're you see there's a lot of people there so it's it's a good 2003 02:48:23,600 --> 02:48:31,359 location here uh does provide for some additional housing needs you know again 2004 02:48:28,720 --> 02:48:36,319 if you do uh some mixeduse dwellings there I think by adding some uses there 2005 02:48:34,399 --> 02:48:42,000 you'll improve the economic vitality there is some uh shopping and other 2006 02:48:38,479 --> 02:48:46,960 things there um public spaces there's a park right across the street so you're 2007 02:48:45,040 --> 02:48:51,680 provided that and design quality. That's why we're recommending those uh e 2008 02:48:49,040 --> 02:48:58,080 central design guidelines so that we we uh keep to the character of that area. 2009 02:48:55,600 --> 02:49:03,359 Uh the text amendment is nice thing about doing the new code 2010 02:49:00,720 --> 02:49:09,840 is that we can slot this in another column and make that fit. Uh so the 2011 02:49:07,279 --> 02:49:14,560 zoning would be con consistent with that neighborhood center and really goals and 2012 02:49:12,720 --> 02:49:20,640 objectives of creating a neighborhood center. Um I think there's 2013 02:49:17,680 --> 02:49:26,399 compatibility and I think with some additional uses there make that a little 2014 02:49:23,439 --> 02:49:31,200 more bustling neighborhood center and it is suitable and there's not really much 2015 02:49:29,359 --> 02:49:37,600 need for additional public services there. So, so we're recommending that uh 2016 02:49:34,399 --> 02:49:45,040 you recommend approval of the the three things, the the the 2017 02:49:40,960 --> 02:49:50,560 code update, the the master plan, and um the zone change um with those, 2018 02:49:48,880 --> 02:49:55,840 but we would recommend removing those two houses. 2019 02:49:53,760 --> 02:49:59,439 » Thank you, Barton. uh you know we I remember last month we were here uh we 2020 02:49:58,080 --> 02:50:02,240 were really close but we had talked about so many things we just we asked 2021 02:50:00,800 --> 02:50:05,920 you to kind of clean it up and I think all all all the things that I remembered 2022 02:50:04,160 --> 02:50:10,800 were addressed except the two houses that have asked to be requested but uh 2023 02:50:08,479 --> 02:50:15,600 we'll open up to commission well let's go to public can we go to public first 2024 02:50:13,359 --> 02:50:18,560 or well let's have yeah let's go to public first then we'll call you back up 2025 02:50:16,960 --> 02:50:21,760 Barton and have the commissioners ask any questions so if there's any public 2026 02:50:20,000 --> 02:50:25,200 who would like to speak on this matter please come forward state your name your 2027 02:50:23,520 --> 02:50:29,439 address keep your comments to three minutes. And uh again, let's try not to 2028 02:50:28,240 --> 02:50:31,760 have redundancy, but don't look like there's many here. So, thank you. 2029 02:50:31,200 --> 02:50:35,840 » Hi. >> Hi, I'm Robert Miles. I own the house at 2030 02:50:33,680 --> 02:50:40,880 1170 Capitol Street and have for 36 years. Uh it's been a fun house. The 2031 02:50:38,640 --> 02:50:45,200 house was built in 1915. It has a lot of character. It has a lot of of the nice 2032 02:50:43,120 --> 02:50:50,160 old wood in the interior and the crown molding. And we've been trying to to 2033 02:50:47,279 --> 02:50:54,319 bring the house back up into a condition that would match that and preserve that. 2034 02:50:52,319 --> 02:50:59,200 Uh, we've done a lot of work inside. I just put $15,000 into the bathroom. 2035 02:50:57,040 --> 02:51:04,560 We've surrounded our Bearclaw bathtub with marble, so it looks very nice and 2036 02:51:02,080 --> 02:51:08,800 some kind of cross period uh cabinetry to make it look uh kind of fit in with 2037 02:51:06,720 --> 02:51:13,600 the theme. Our next step is the flooring. We want to put down hardwood 2038 02:51:10,240 --> 02:51:19,680 floor in the in the main still 1915 kind of feeling areas. And uh after 2039 02:51:17,600 --> 02:51:24,880 that, we would like to reskin it. We put up the sighting when uh finances were 2040 02:51:22,160 --> 02:51:29,359 quite constrained. I'm no longer a firefighter. I was a firefighter for 26 2041 02:51:26,960 --> 02:51:35,439 years here in Ogden and finances were a little tight. Uh but now I work on the 2042 02:51:33,200 --> 02:51:43,040 space launch system for NASA's Artemis program and we have much much much freer 2043 02:51:39,520 --> 02:51:45,680 uh uh finances to be able to try and restore this to the way we'd like it to 2044 02:51:44,399 --> 02:51:50,319 do. I'd like to put something a little more period. Unfortunately, the roof is 2045 02:51:47,120 --> 02:51:54,560 aluminum, which is not 195 era. But I'd like something different 2046 02:51:53,040 --> 02:51:59,279 than that sighting. That sighting is just they said it wouldn't fade. It did. 2047 02:51:57,439 --> 02:52:04,800 I'd like it redone. I'd like it to look nice. And I'd like to redo the the 2048 02:52:02,319 --> 02:52:09,439 sprinkler system with the new modern valves and that sort of thing. And I I'd 2049 02:52:06,479 --> 02:52:15,359 also like to redo the driveway. But uh those are the things I finally have the 2050 02:52:11,120 --> 02:52:21,359 ability and the the resources to pursue now that the income is six figures 2051 02:52:18,160 --> 02:52:24,880 instead of otherwise. And um please allow me to continue doing so. I'd like 2052 02:52:23,279 --> 02:52:30,640 my house to stay a house and stay residential. Was R1 would be great, but 2053 02:52:27,600 --> 02:52:35,680 you know R2 I'll take whatever you can do. I appreciate your time. And uh also 2054 02:52:34,000 --> 02:52:39,600 I've been around like I say 36 years. I've seen the businesses come and go. 2055 02:52:38,000 --> 02:52:44,399 Uh, I've seen what's worked in that district. I know that certain things do 2056 02:52:41,920 --> 02:52:47,840 really well. I walk to my dentist. That's why I like him there. I walk 2057 02:52:45,920 --> 02:52:51,840 across the street and it's get my teeth worked on. I walk to my barber. They've 2058 02:52:50,160 --> 02:52:56,960 been seller barber's been there for a very long time. That area supports 2059 02:52:54,000 --> 02:53:02,319 destination type businesses, places you go to to get a specific service done. Uh 2060 02:52:59,840 --> 02:53:06,240 they've had daycare, they've had pizza places, they've had I think a taco 2061 02:53:04,240 --> 02:53:10,160 place, and then for the last what, eight years, it's been sitting pretty much 2062 02:53:08,160 --> 02:53:14,720 vacant. It's been pretty hard to find tenants there. Uh you can see what 2063 02:53:13,200 --> 02:53:19,680 thrives and you see what you can see what doesn't. And uh I'd like to have 2064 02:53:17,439 --> 02:53:23,279 input on that at some point as what I've seen, but I appreciate your time and 2065 02:53:21,840 --> 02:53:26,760 hope you'd consider that. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. 2066 02:53:30,034 --> 02:53:32,054 » [snorts] 2067 02:53:34,080 --> 02:53:44,080 » Greetings. Uh, [clears throat] I'm Herman Jensen. I live at 67525th Street 2068 02:53:40,720 --> 02:53:49,359 and I own the Harrison corner of Harrison 25th, the two properties there. 2069 02:53:47,439 --> 02:53:54,840 Let's see. First thing I think we ought to take 1170 and make it a restaurant. 2070 02:53:54,880 --> 02:54:00,319 Great rush restaurant there. >> No, I'm just kidding. [laughter] 2071 02:53:59,279 --> 02:54:02,319 » You're talking to a bunch of people that are really hungry right now, so we 2072 02:54:01,680 --> 02:54:07,040 probably >> Yeah. 2073 02:54:04,000 --> 02:54:13,680 » Uh well, I we've reviewed the whole thing and had a meeting with Barton and 2074 02:54:10,000 --> 02:54:18,080 I I'm in favor of doing it this way. I think it allows us a lot of latitude 2075 02:54:15,680 --> 02:54:24,880 with our building and our properties there and and everything else. So, I'm 2076 02:54:20,960 --> 02:54:30,000 not opposing. I'm this uh change. I think it's a good change. So, that's all 2077 02:54:28,560 --> 02:54:34,040 all I've got to say. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Jensen. 2078 02:54:35,535 --> 02:54:37,555 [snorts] 2079 02:54:39,600 --> 02:54:46,640 » Chair Commission, thank you for all your hard work over the past three months. Uh 2080 02:54:44,000 --> 02:54:51,200 when this came to us, it was R3, sorry, I always forget that part. Steve Van 2081 02:54:48,399 --> 02:54:56,319 Wagner, property manager for uh uh Harrison Boulevard property there. Um 2082 02:54:54,240 --> 02:55:01,600 » again, thank you to all of your work and to uh Barton, his presentation. Uh he's 2083 02:54:59,040 --> 02:55:05,040 taken in a lot of emails from us. He's taken a lot of consideration. Um the 2084 02:55:03,680 --> 02:55:09,680 only thing that I would like to there's two things that I'd like to ask for. 2085 02:55:06,720 --> 02:55:13,279 I've kind of already sent you an email here at the beginning of the week and I 2086 02:55:10,960 --> 02:55:19,120 I I think that you've seen that. But the setbacks I would ask especially after 2087 02:55:16,399 --> 02:55:25,920 seeing what I saw earlier with the other project that you considered there had a 2088 02:55:22,000 --> 02:55:33,279 9 ft threshold. We have a 12 ft threshold currently up there. Uh 12 ft 2089 02:55:29,200 --> 02:55:39,040 from curb to property lines. Um a 0 to five out of all of your mixed use zones 2090 02:55:36,319 --> 02:55:44,720 on your chart. we would be the only zone with a with a 10 plus foot setback. 2091 02:55:42,720 --> 02:55:49,600 That's that's that's a big setback, guys. So, what I would ask is, and I did 2092 02:55:47,279 --> 02:55:56,080 in the email, is I'd ask that we do a zero to five foot setback. Give the 2093 02:55:53,359 --> 02:56:02,000 building property owners the ability to have flexibility. If they need to use 2094 02:55:58,319 --> 02:56:06,240 that zero to five for ADA, if they want to set their buildings back five and in 2095 02:56:04,319 --> 02:56:10,479 incorporate that in the front, they can do that. If they want to have decks in 2096 02:56:08,000 --> 02:56:16,720 that zero to five, they can do that. But it gives flexibility rather than a hard 2097 02:56:14,080 --> 02:56:22,399 limit. So a zero to five is what I'm asking for for all setbacks in this 2098 02:56:20,000 --> 02:56:27,279 district, not just the front setbacks. The other thing that I'm asking for 2099 02:56:25,279 --> 02:56:35,520 and and I've heard it repeated so many times is carveouts. Um, I don't know if 2100 02:56:31,359 --> 02:56:40,720 everybody understands the mixeduse zone increases their property value. It 2101 02:56:39,040 --> 02:56:44,640 doesn't change their use. They can continue living as a home. They can 2102 02:56:42,960 --> 02:56:48,640 rebuild it. They can make it beautiful. They can do everything to make it 2103 02:56:46,160 --> 02:56:53,439 period. That will never change. But their value of their property being 2104 02:56:50,560 --> 02:56:59,840 mixed use does change. It changes that. And so I would say look at this section 2105 02:56:56,720 --> 02:57:05,600 as it is. approve it as it has been suggested, but don't let's let's be 2106 02:57:03,439 --> 02:57:11,120 careful about continuing to make carveouts in districts and and making 2107 02:57:09,040 --> 02:57:14,960 them look less cohesive. That's all I got for you. 2108 02:57:13,439 --> 02:57:21,560 Thank you for all your hard work. >> Thank you, M. Van Wagner. 2109 02:57:18,080 --> 02:57:21,560 » Any other comments? 2110 02:57:24,960 --> 02:57:34,880 » Hi. Hi. I'm Angela Anderson and I live at 2456 Harrison Boulevard. I So I 2111 02:57:32,960 --> 02:57:39,840 understand that it will increase my property value. I'm in my I'm in a 2112 02:57:37,439 --> 02:57:44,560 house. I I am right next door to the salon. I but it's commercially zoned and 2113 02:57:43,040 --> 02:57:50,319 to the best of my knowledge, it's only ever been a residence. 2114 02:57:47,680 --> 02:57:54,680 But this is going to improve my property value if it becomes mixeduse. 2115 02:57:57,040 --> 02:58:05,600 Okay. And then what is a setback? >> It's how far your house be to the road 2116 02:58:04,240 --> 02:58:10,399 to the property line. >> So, does that mean that it's going to 2117 02:58:07,600 --> 02:58:15,359 you guys can broaden the road? >> And no, that's not going to change the 2118 02:58:13,279 --> 02:58:19,200 sidewalk in front of my house, >> my yard, any of that. 2119 02:58:17,439 --> 02:58:22,880 » No, >> it would let you build something closer 2120 02:58:21,120 --> 02:58:24,399 to your road. That's all it would do. Yeah. 2121 02:58:23,680 --> 02:58:29,439 » Okay. >> But intimate domain could I mean if if 2122 02:58:28,240 --> 02:58:33,040 you do wanted that >> if you don't want it they could 2123 02:58:30,800 --> 02:58:35,520 » they could take it but this zoning wouldn't affect that. 2124 02:58:34,720 --> 02:58:39,198 » Yeah. >> Hopefully they're focusing on 24th 2125 02:58:37,680 --> 02:58:42,080 Street [laughter] 2126 02:58:39,920 --> 02:58:49,680 » instead of that. >> Okay. I I think then that I'm in favor 2127 02:58:45,439 --> 02:58:55,000 of mixeduse zoning. >> I So thank you for your time. Thank you. 2128 02:58:51,760 --> 02:58:55,000 Thank you. 2129 02:59:00,560 --> 02:59:08,240 » My name is Jeff Smith representing 2453 Harrison Boulevard. Just wanted to say 2130 02:59:06,240 --> 02:59:13,920 thank you for all the hard work you've done on uh the improvements made to this 2131 02:59:11,120 --> 02:59:18,960 proposal. I'm in favor of them. Uh my one concern is the 10-foot setback. Uh, 2132 02:59:17,279 --> 02:59:23,600 I'm the owner of one of the properties that goes almost right up to the 2133 02:59:20,880 --> 02:59:29,359 sidewalk and we've actually been a victim of arson in the past and if we 2134 02:59:26,479 --> 02:59:33,680 had to move it back an additional 10 ft, uh, we wouldn't be able to have much of 2135 02:59:31,760 --> 02:59:38,319 a footprint there. We'd lose parking in the back if we had to to rebuild and 2136 02:59:35,760 --> 02:59:42,800 move it further back. Um, so luckily that wasn't the case. We're able to 2137 02:59:39,600 --> 02:59:46,640 rebuild on the original footprint. Um, but I do have concerns. Hopefully 2138 02:59:44,880 --> 02:59:51,279 lightning doesn't strike twice and that happens again, but uh if it did, I think 2139 02:59:49,600 --> 02:59:55,760 it would be really difficult to to rebuild and have what we currently have. 2140 02:59:54,000 --> 03:00:01,399 Um but again, thank you for all your work in favor of everything else. 2141 02:59:57,840 --> 03:00:01,399 Appreciate your time. 2142 03:00:03,359 --> 03:00:08,399 » All right. Anybody else? Anybody online? >> No. 2143 03:00:07,120 --> 03:00:13,040 » No one online. Chair. >> Okay. Anybody else in the 2144 03:00:11,120 --> 03:00:15,600 » move close the public hearing? >> Got them. Go ahead. 2145 03:00:14,479 --> 03:00:19,120 » Second. >> So, got a a motion from Commissioner 2146 03:00:17,600 --> 03:00:21,520 Southwick, second from Commissioner Sandal. All in favor? 2147 03:00:20,880 --> 03:00:28,080 » I >> I thank you for your comments. So, uh 2148 03:00:25,359 --> 03:00:33,120 let's open it up for uh discussion with the commissioners. So, 2149 03:00:31,200 --> 03:00:38,800 » go ahead, Commissioner Humps. >> I have a question for Barton. 2150 03:00:36,160 --> 03:00:42,800 As the last gentleman just mentioned, if his property burned down under the new 2151 03:00:40,800 --> 03:00:47,600 guidelines, would he have to rebuild his property meeting the new setbacks if 2152 03:00:45,200 --> 03:00:52,640 he's already at close to zero? >> No, you can uh rebuild it u provided you 2153 03:00:50,560 --> 03:00:58,000 do so soon after, but you could build at the 2154 03:00:55,200 --> 03:01:02,560 same footprint. and our our gentleman at 1170 2155 03:01:00,000 --> 03:01:06,880 the mixed use change when I'm looking at this I want to respect his property 2156 03:01:04,479 --> 03:01:10,560 rights at the same time I also look at this and go well he gets an increase in 2157 03:01:09,040 --> 03:01:14,479 value he doesn't have to change anything it doesn't change he could sell it as 2158 03:01:12,560 --> 03:01:20,160 residential he could do any number of things there but also um we have to 2159 03:01:18,080 --> 03:01:24,240 maintain a certain number of residences in the district and having a house 2160 03:01:22,560 --> 03:01:28,960 that's a house because single family homes are part of what is mixed use 2161 03:01:26,800 --> 03:01:33,279 would help us to meet that criteria as well. Correct. 2162 03:01:30,479 --> 03:01:37,680 » Yes. Yeah. And it wouldn't he could continue his house and improving it. 2163 03:01:36,319 --> 03:01:43,520 » Well, and we want to see it improved. That's awesome. But then 1215 25th 2164 03:01:40,240 --> 03:01:46,960 Street is currently zoned professional. >> Yes. 2165 03:01:44,479 --> 03:01:50,479 » And has been zoned professional for 30 years. 2166 03:01:48,479 --> 03:01:54,399 » It's not presently residential. >> Correct. So taking it out of 2167 03:01:52,080 --> 03:01:59,040 professional and adding a residential component in a mixeduse space actually 2168 03:01:56,640 --> 03:02:02,319 improves their situation significantly and their options as well. Correct. 2169 03:02:01,760 --> 03:02:04,720 » Uh yeah >> doing anything. 2170 03:02:03,120 --> 03:02:07,600 » Yeah. Going from >> professional to mixed it would increase 2171 03:02:06,960 --> 03:02:10,720 the >> it doesn't change their existing uses 2172 03:02:09,439 --> 03:02:13,439 either in any way. >> Right. They could continue using 2173 03:02:12,000 --> 03:02:17,439 » well that remains and it does the same thing for us in keeping residential 2174 03:02:15,200 --> 03:02:19,680 inside the district. >> Mhm. 2175 03:02:17,840 --> 03:02:25,520 » Okay. >> Thank you sir. Oh, the setbacks. The Has 2176 03:02:22,720 --> 03:02:30,720 anyone ever done a zero to five like a variance in setbacks with conditions? I 2177 03:02:29,200 --> 03:02:35,120 I've never heard of anything like that, but like we were dealing with earlier 2178 03:02:32,479 --> 03:02:38,000 this evening, I don't want to set a zero setback and then have someone come back 2179 03:02:36,479 --> 03:02:41,359 and say, "Oh, I need to put steps out there. 2180 03:02:39,520 --> 03:02:44,640 » I don't want to do that." >> So, 2181 03:02:42,800 --> 03:02:46,240 » if you have a 0% setback and then somebody 2182 03:02:45,040 --> 03:02:50,560 » and then someone says, "I want to do 88." Right? And if we want to improve 2183 03:02:48,880 --> 03:02:53,920 Harrison to make it a little bit nicer in that area, additional trees or 2184 03:02:52,479 --> 03:02:58,479 something that makes it more distinguishable as a neighborhood 2185 03:02:55,439 --> 03:03:02,640 center, that takes up space as well. But I've never seen in code anywhere where 2186 03:03:00,640 --> 03:03:07,040 anyone's done you could do zero if you do this and five if you do that. 2187 03:03:05,040 --> 03:03:10,720 » Well, what are but what have we done with our 2188 03:03:09,040 --> 03:03:14,880 you know the commercial and the apartments that are right up against the 2189 03:03:13,359 --> 03:03:18,880 sidewalk? Is that >> is that a zero setback? 2190 03:03:16,560 --> 03:03:24,319 » Yeah. Like in downtown zones, we have a a zero setback. And we have actually we 2191 03:03:22,000 --> 03:03:29,200 kind of corrected that in the proposed code update cuz 2192 03:03:26,000 --> 03:03:30,399 » zero is hard because you end up with stuff that 2193 03:03:29,760 --> 03:03:35,439 » they're balconies >> hangings out the right place. 2194 03:03:32,800 --> 03:03:39,600 » I know we've we've uh adjusted a lot of those to like instead of saying zero, 2195 03:03:37,120 --> 03:03:42,080 it's like 0 to two, you know, just give us 2196 03:03:40,000 --> 03:03:48,399 » So there is some variance or we moved them from zero to two. 2197 03:03:44,399 --> 03:03:53,680 » Well, yeah. So the the minimum I think in like downtown we said instead of a 2198 03:03:50,479 --> 03:03:59,520 zero minimum we said twoft minimum just to allow a little bit of space there. 2199 03:03:56,319 --> 03:04:04,319 But there's minimums and maximums. So how far back if you build your building 2200 03:04:02,399 --> 03:04:08,000 like in downtown we don't let you build your building 20 ft back. We want it 2201 03:04:06,160 --> 03:04:12,399 pulled up. So >> I don't know if when we talk zero to 2202 03:04:10,160 --> 03:04:16,560 five are we saying five feets a a maximum. So if you want to build it your 2203 03:04:14,560 --> 03:04:21,279 building 10 ft back, nope, you can't. You got to bring it forward, which in 2204 03:04:19,200 --> 03:04:25,600 downtown we want to do that cuz we want to really be 2205 03:04:22,560 --> 03:04:30,479 » five to 10. >> I I put a maximum on it at all. We just 2206 03:04:28,720 --> 03:04:36,319 want to look at the minimum. >> And I I think five makes some sense for 2207 03:04:33,359 --> 03:04:39,600 those that are already there. But I also understand the it doesn't stop someone 2208 03:04:38,080 --> 03:04:43,840 from building an example where they're 20 foot back and have a front patio and 2209 03:04:41,760 --> 03:04:48,640 so forth. But we also have to recognize that most of these lots aren't deep 2210 03:04:46,319 --> 03:04:52,240 enough to do a lot of that >> realistically. They're a lot shallower 2211 03:04:50,560 --> 03:04:56,319 than they are in other parts of the residential area of the city. 2212 03:04:54,720 --> 03:04:58,880 » When we say five though, we're talking the edge of the sidewalk to the 2213 03:04:58,000 --> 03:05:02,640 building. >> Uh talking the curb to the building. 2214 03:05:00,880 --> 03:05:06,720 We're we're talking actually >> propertine 2215 03:05:03,680 --> 03:05:13,040 » property line which there's there's curb there's planter strip there's sidewalk 2216 03:05:08,640 --> 03:05:17,600 and then here there's uh four five six feet between the sidewalk and the 2217 03:05:16,000 --> 03:05:20,160 actual property line. So you got a little bit of space there. 2218 03:05:19,520 --> 03:05:25,520 » So >> so you could you you could actually 2219 03:05:23,279 --> 03:05:28,319 justify the zero to five with that. You can. Yeah, 2220 03:05:27,120 --> 03:05:32,240 » because you've already got five. >> If you look at that building on I want 2221 03:05:30,319 --> 03:05:36,000 to say the corner of Capitol and Harrison 2222 03:05:33,600 --> 03:05:40,399 » on the north side that's the yellow duplex. 2223 03:05:37,840 --> 03:05:45,439 It's like 4 feet from the property line and the side pan steps and the steps 2224 03:05:43,439 --> 03:05:48,720 take it right to the property line. It's at zero. 2225 03:05:46,640 --> 03:05:50,399 » So it would qualify as zero. >> Mhm. 2226 03:05:49,520 --> 03:05:54,240 » Right now, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. You got some of those 2227 03:05:52,640 --> 03:05:56,560 » and that doesn't affect existing. That's just anything new. 2228 03:05:55,200 --> 03:06:00,080 » It's just what we do in the future. And if of course one of those buildings was 2229 03:05:58,000 --> 03:06:03,680 destroyed and had to be replaced, these rules wouldn't apply to replacing it. 2230 03:06:01,760 --> 03:06:08,399 They have to replace it as is. They just have to bring it up to fire and 2231 03:06:05,840 --> 03:06:13,040 earthquake codes and stuff. But >> okay, [clears throat] 2232 03:06:10,399 --> 03:06:15,600 » but if if that did happen, >> they could 2233 03:06:13,760 --> 03:06:16,560 » and you wanted to do something, if you wanted to, 2234 03:06:16,080 --> 03:06:21,720 » you could >> go two or three stories, 2235 03:06:18,479 --> 03:06:21,720 » you could. 2236 03:06:22,560 --> 03:06:30,399 Can you under that? I mean, if you weren't if you were going to do 2237 03:06:26,479 --> 03:06:34,680 something more than what was there, you could still use that existing line. 2238 03:06:36,399 --> 03:06:41,520 » This is like the most flexible thing we've done since I've been on the 2239 03:06:39,200 --> 03:06:45,439 commission. I really like it >> for this particular neighborhood. 2240 03:06:43,600 --> 03:06:50,160 » Yeah. If the property line is like five feet on this side of the sidewalk, I'm 2241 03:06:47,920 --> 03:06:54,319 good with another five feet being enough. Yeah, I think so, too. 2242 03:06:52,560 --> 03:06:59,359 » One concern I kind of have, well, just depends how close that if there's zero 2243 03:06:56,720 --> 03:07:02,800 and if but right up if you have >> Yeah, just depending I guess you 2244 03:07:01,040 --> 03:07:08,880 probably have enough room, but we've had issues with balconies and we're allowing 2245 03:07:05,359 --> 03:07:12,720 to go up three stories 30 45 ft. Now you're going to Our big concern is what 2246 03:07:11,040 --> 03:07:16,399 snow and things that come off the >> and we don't want that. We don't want 2247 03:07:14,479 --> 03:07:19,760 that encroaching in the public space. said that many times which is why I'm 2248 03:07:18,640 --> 03:07:23,040 kind of okay with five >> five foot minimum is what 2249 03:07:20,960 --> 03:07:27,359 » well maybe what we has to be six by eight if I remember from earlier tonight 2250 03:07:24,880 --> 03:07:32,520 so maybe we need to set that to six feet so that if they have a balcony it goes 2251 03:07:28,960 --> 03:07:32,520 to the property line 2252 03:07:32,800 --> 03:07:39,520 » just thinking about that in advance before we get asked for a variance 2253 03:07:37,760 --> 03:07:42,960 » what would be the benefit of 10 feet in your mind 2254 03:07:41,359 --> 03:07:48,240 » uh more than anything consistency with what 2255 03:07:45,600 --> 03:07:52,560 on there. I just think about looking at this uh corridor and thinking about 2256 03:07:49,920 --> 03:07:58,319 those buildings being really kind of close to the the property line. And I 2257 03:07:55,200 --> 03:08:02,720 think uh just a little setback gives you better visual quality for homes. It gets 2258 03:08:01,200 --> 03:08:07,680 you a little bit further from the street, little protection from noise. 2259 03:08:04,960 --> 03:08:11,600 » And they can come and get an uh encroachment, right? They can come and 2260 03:08:09,760 --> 03:08:14,800 petition for [sighs] >> they want a balcony. 2261 03:08:12,720 --> 03:08:17,439 » Well, they can. Well, >> yeah. 2262 03:08:15,920 --> 03:08:20,000 » We're trying to eliminate that, but >> Right. Yeah. 2263 03:08:18,479 --> 03:08:23,920 » Yeah. It's easier to handle this up front. 2264 03:08:22,399 --> 03:08:28,160 » All right. >> A bunch of 2265 03:08:26,720 --> 03:08:31,439 » one thing that just kind of crossed my mind, you know, and you know, just 2266 03:08:29,760 --> 03:08:36,240 because I, you know, we're getting older, got a elderly mother and I had 2267 03:08:34,160 --> 03:08:40,720 grandparents to live up off 25th Street. And, you know, I know how I know that 2268 03:08:38,399 --> 03:08:44,399 this will increase the value. Uh unfortunately there's certain people 2269 03:08:42,399 --> 03:08:48,720 that are your house increases so does your taxes and you know 2270 03:08:46,640 --> 03:08:53,439 » family members that come in trying to file stuff with the county to get 2271 03:08:50,560 --> 03:08:58,399 exceptions to drop their taxes because their value of the property has gone up. 2272 03:08:55,600 --> 03:09:02,240 I mean some people that is a concern especially up in that area. We got a lot 2273 03:08:59,840 --> 03:09:07,760 of retired people that are limited to fixed incomes but just something that 2274 03:09:03,920 --> 03:09:11,439 kind of to think about too as we look at uh the mixed use. So I that would be 2275 03:09:09,760 --> 03:09:16,000 more in favor of those residents that want to stay residential. I'm I'm in 2276 03:09:13,520 --> 03:09:18,720 favor for that. So the two parcels that we'd take out of this. So 2277 03:09:17,600 --> 03:09:21,600 » kind of my comment. >> One isn't residential now. 2278 03:09:20,800 --> 03:09:24,560 » Yeah. It would stay. >> It's professional office. 2279 03:09:23,040 --> 03:09:30,000 » Yeah. But it would stay the same. So it wouldn't change really anything there, 2280 03:09:26,080 --> 03:09:34,080 right? So I'm okay with that. But >> I think that ought to be cleaned up. 2281 03:09:31,840 --> 03:09:39,359 That's an oddball to have that one little professional office there. 2282 03:09:41,520 --> 03:09:47,439 Does it clean up to make it a >> Are you talking this one here 2283 03:09:45,200 --> 03:09:51,120 » on the east side? >> Yeah. At some point, someone may want to 2284 03:09:49,359 --> 03:09:54,080 take down the commercial building that's on Harrison and replace it with 2285 03:09:52,960 --> 03:09:57,040 something else. >> The news gives them that option if they 2286 03:09:55,840 --> 03:10:02,319 want to potentially purchase the additional land. 2287 03:10:00,399 --> 03:10:04,960 » Again, that's out of our control. So, it is. 2288 03:10:03,120 --> 03:10:09,760 » Well, it's not unless we change the zoning. 2289 03:10:05,439 --> 03:10:13,439 » Yes, I mean. Yeah. So, um, what are the side and the rear setbacks, 2290 03:10:11,920 --> 03:10:19,040 Barton? >> Like five, right? 2291 03:10:16,160 --> 03:10:20,800 » Yeah, we >> Yeah, we're recommending 2292 03:10:20,000 --> 03:10:23,840 » five feet. >> Five. 2293 03:10:22,000 --> 03:10:27,120 » Allowing them to maximize. They are small. Some of the lots are 2294 03:10:25,200 --> 03:10:30,080 » Some of those lots are very And we've deliberately gone with 25. 2295 03:10:28,880 --> 03:10:34,080 » I think those are good. I think that makes sense. Yeah. Are we 2296 03:10:31,920 --> 03:10:38,160 » Are we saying five on the front then? Well, with balconies, I think maybe we 2297 03:10:36,000 --> 03:10:42,080 have to say six. No, you're okay. If we get an encroachment for a foot, 2298 03:10:39,439 --> 03:10:43,520 » you're saying in 10ess the balconies in, 2299 03:10:43,200 --> 03:10:46,240 » right? >> Yes. There you go. Perfect. Okay. 2300 03:10:45,359 --> 03:10:48,560 » With that with that? >> Yeah, you can do 2301 03:10:46,960 --> 03:10:52,160 » with that close of a set. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm good with that. 2302 03:10:49,600 --> 03:10:55,680 » Or the two-footer. [laughter] >> That's why it's bonus owner. 2303 03:10:53,760 --> 03:10:57,359 » So, what do you Jeremy? >> What? 2304 03:10:56,000 --> 03:11:03,680 » I didn't hear what you said. Well, the two foot the twoft uh balcony that's the 2305 03:11:00,960 --> 03:11:09,600 rest of um on the rest of Washington Boulevard 2306 03:11:04,720 --> 03:11:15,040 » in downtown. That's what we gave um uh property owners on Washington. 2307 03:11:12,160 --> 03:11:20,640 » They asked for six, we gave them two. >> Now the Wonderblock, they asked for six 2308 03:11:17,680 --> 03:11:24,479 and you gave them six. >> They were fickle. 2309 03:11:21,920 --> 03:11:27,520 » But I I I wanted to give them two. I wanted to be 2310 03:11:26,399 --> 03:11:31,120 consistent. >> Yeah. So, all right. 2311 03:11:30,479 --> 03:11:34,560 » Okay. >> Uh 2312 03:11:33,040 --> 03:11:36,560 I think we've talked a lot about this. It's been cleaned up. Where we want to 2313 03:11:36,080 --> 03:11:39,040 go with this. >> All right. How do we Let's see. 2314 03:11:38,080 --> 03:11:46,640 » Someone think >> So, our mixed use zoning text. 2315 03:11:43,279 --> 03:11:53,080 » Let's leave it the way. Yeah. >> I've got it here. 2316 03:11:49,200 --> 03:11:53,080 » The only other thing is that 2317 03:11:57,279 --> 03:12:04,560 Okay. I guess I didn't give me the rationale on the R2 on that. Uh 2318 03:12:03,040 --> 03:12:09,279 » 1170 capital. >> That's a it's a block bat. 2319 03:12:07,200 --> 03:12:13,200 » Yeah. >> This is this is R2. 2320 03:12:11,200 --> 03:12:17,359 » It's currently R2. >> It It's currently R4. 2321 03:12:14,800 --> 03:12:21,920 » It's currently R4. And make it >> R2, which is what this is. Oh, so it's 2322 03:12:19,920 --> 03:12:24,080 not make it >> same as just what's 2323 03:12:22,960 --> 03:12:25,920 » plus they block off >> that was the restaurant. 2324 03:12:25,279 --> 03:12:30,319 » Yeah. >> Hence the reason I it doesn't make a 2325 03:12:28,720 --> 03:12:34,560 massive adjustment. It doesn't change their use in any way. It just gives more 2326 03:12:32,319 --> 03:12:39,200 flexibility to either them or future people who purchase property. So I'm not 2327 03:12:36,720 --> 03:12:43,600 sure the carveout is the right thing. >> It's not really a carve out. It's giving 2328 03:12:40,960 --> 03:12:46,880 it the one that's right next to. >> It's not on the other side. 2329 03:12:44,560 --> 03:12:48,800 » So you painted it one way or the other. >> Yes. 2330 03:12:47,200 --> 03:12:50,240 » It's being changed one way or the other. Correct. 2331 03:12:49,760 --> 03:12:52,880 » Um, >> so that it doesn't all look R4 by 2332 03:12:51,760 --> 03:12:58,640 itself. >> Um, but I mean on the previous one, 2333 03:12:55,359 --> 03:13:02,319 right, there were property owners that asked to get it added to the, you know, 2334 03:13:00,960 --> 03:13:05,520 their zone to be added, >> I think. 2335 03:13:03,680 --> 03:13:09,359 » And so, no, I know I'm saying like on the previous, you know, in West, right? 2336 03:13:07,840 --> 03:13:12,240 They like they added and so it's like now now this property owner is also 2337 03:13:11,439 --> 03:13:15,279 asking >> now we're flop with Commissioner Snowd 2338 03:13:14,160 --> 03:13:19,359 trying to save them, right? >> Well, there's a vast difference between 2339 03:13:17,359 --> 03:13:24,080 someone's There's a big difference because this doesn't change his zoning. 2340 03:13:22,399 --> 03:13:30,160 He can still have a residential property. This doesn't take away his 2341 03:13:26,319 --> 03:13:33,840 right to still reside in his property, >> you know, improve his property. It 2342 03:13:31,920 --> 03:13:39,200 doesn't take that a right away from him. It just gives him more potential in the 2343 03:13:36,880 --> 03:13:43,680 future as a property owner. So, we're not taking away his personal property 2344 03:13:41,120 --> 03:13:48,640 rights. We're just giving him more. So, it's totally different, actually. 2345 03:13:45,760 --> 03:13:54,319 » Yeah. Yeah. I I'm against cutting the two parcels out personally. 2346 03:13:52,000 --> 03:13:57,640 » Leave them in, have clean lines. >> Yes, sir. 2347 03:14:00,720 --> 03:14:08,160 » Or cut them cut them [clears throat] out because we want to make sure that they 2348 03:14:05,680 --> 03:14:10,399 always stay >> residential. 2349 03:14:09,040 --> 03:14:14,479 » Residential. >> We have to maintain a certain amount of 2350 03:14:12,319 --> 03:14:17,279 residential in the zone in the first place. And if they're already 2351 03:14:16,000 --> 03:14:19,279 residential and they're going to stay residential, that helps meet that 2352 03:14:18,800 --> 03:14:21,680 requirement. >> Well, each property has to have so much 2353 03:14:20,880 --> 03:14:26,000 residential. >> No, the entire mixeduse zone has to have 2354 03:14:24,960 --> 03:14:31,120 so much residential >> allows it. Yeah, that was the idea of 2355 03:14:28,319 --> 03:14:34,399 why you would have a master plan so that >> we guarantee so much residential, so 2356 03:14:33,439 --> 03:14:37,200 much commercial. Yeah. >> And you kind of point out this is going 2357 03:14:36,080 --> 03:14:42,800 to be the residential and this is going to be the commercial. 2358 03:14:38,960 --> 03:14:45,920 » Punches. I'd really hate all that work that you're putting into restoring that 2359 03:14:44,560 --> 03:14:50,560 house and have someone turned into commercial. I'd hate to see that, but it 2360 03:14:48,080 --> 03:14:52,800 » Well, it certainly wouldn't happen. >> He's never going to let that happen. 2361 03:14:52,000 --> 03:14:56,160 » That's true. But >> and we certainly don't want to stop him 2362 03:14:54,319 --> 03:14:58,800 from doing the great work he's doing, >> right? So, I mean, it still allows it, 2363 03:14:58,160 --> 03:15:01,520 but Yeah. >> Yes. 2364 03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:05,279 » I'm kind of on the fence on that one. >> How does he feel about it now? 2365 03:15:03,840 --> 03:15:11,040 » Yeah. So I know the petition or 2366 03:15:08,640 --> 03:15:17,040 » if his son decides he wants to inherit the house and he wants to put in a you 2367 03:15:13,920 --> 03:15:22,080 know an accounting office at home or a daughter wants to put in a nail salon 2368 03:15:19,359 --> 03:15:26,239 right now that would require as a residential unit that requires 2369 03:15:23,920 --> 03:15:31,439 significantly more work as a mixeduse development it's automatically allowed 2370 03:15:28,640 --> 03:15:35,760 for them to use that as they wish. There's significant values in those two 2371 03:15:34,160 --> 03:15:39,520 properties being able to stay in the mixed use space. 2372 03:15:37,680 --> 03:15:44,000 » Yeah, I noticed he's shaking his head back there. Can we have you come up one 2373 03:15:42,080 --> 03:15:46,479 uh remind me your name? Uh >> Robert. 2374 03:15:44,640 --> 03:15:49,279 » Yeah, Robert Miles. Can you come up and just after this conversation just give 2375 03:15:48,239 --> 03:15:53,439 us >> just really just a one minute. My 2376 03:15:51,680 --> 03:15:57,840 thought is that if the house is included in in the mixeduse zone, which I'm not 2377 03:15:56,239 --> 03:16:04,560 exactly certain how what they want to do with it or how it would improve the area 2378 03:16:01,120 --> 03:16:09,760 of of for businesses there, is that people that are close to it might have 2379 03:16:08,000 --> 03:16:13,520 ideas that they would like to then say, "Hey, if we can just grab that one 2380 03:16:11,600 --> 03:16:17,760 property, it would we'd be able to do this project that would allow us to." 2381 03:16:15,760 --> 03:16:22,239 And if it's not part of that, then they have another hurdle to go through to 2382 03:16:19,920 --> 03:16:26,080 stop them from just saying, "Hey, if we can just build this bit business a 2383 03:16:24,319 --> 03:16:32,160 little bit bigger and then present it as some starry eyed pie in the sky idea 2384 03:16:29,760 --> 03:16:37,840 that they can then, you know, annex the house or have it become uh part of their 2385 03:16:35,760 --> 03:16:40,560 plan to put in it as a business. We'd like to keep our house. We just been 2386 03:16:39,439 --> 03:16:43,200 living there 26 years." >> Yeah. It wouldn't change it. 2387 03:16:42,080 --> 03:16:47,920 » And we don't want it to >> We wouldn't change anything with your 2388 03:16:45,040 --> 03:16:50,720 health anything other than he he wants to remove the incentive for somebody to 2389 03:16:50,319 --> 03:16:53,439 » Yeah. >> Yeah. 2390 03:16:51,439 --> 03:16:57,120 » Yeah. All right. If they're if it's available for them to be able to do 2391 03:16:55,040 --> 03:17:00,960 that, we don't want them eyeing it and going, "Huh, maybe we can 2392 03:16:58,960 --> 03:17:02,800 » combine it and go in and grab that property, too." That's that's our 2393 03:17:02,319 --> 03:17:06,160 thought. >> Thank you for your additional comments. 2394 03:17:04,560 --> 03:17:14,080 So we'll >> also a house at 9:15 built in 1915 2395 03:17:11,279 --> 03:17:16,560 » restored in such a way there could be other hurdles that could 2396 03:17:15,359 --> 03:17:21,520 be added. It could be part of the landmarks commission. 2397 03:17:18,160 --> 03:17:23,680 » Yeah. So all right I think we beat this. Let's make a vote. 2398 03:17:23,200 --> 03:17:28,080 » Okay. >> Let's go. Let's see where everybody 2399 03:17:25,359 --> 03:17:32,080 » Okay. finding that the proposed text a well proposed text amendment, master 2400 03:17:29,840 --> 03:17:38,399 plan, and the zone change are consistent with the general plan, state federal 2401 03:17:34,560 --> 03:17:44,720 law, the mixeduse master plan criteria, OMC 1428 2402 03:17:41,600 --> 03:17:48,800 5D, and the zone change criteria in OMC 14184E. 2403 03:17:47,120 --> 03:17:56,399 Recommend the city council adopt the text amendment, master plan, and the 2404 03:17:51,760 --> 03:18:03,200 zone change with the following changes. uh remove the house 1170 Capitol Street 2405 03:17:59,359 --> 03:18:09,920 from plan and reszone that as R2 uh include 2406 03:18:06,239 --> 03:18:15,680 the house at 121625th and reszone that as mixed use. 2407 03:18:14,000 --> 03:18:20,479 Um, and 2408 03:18:18,479 --> 03:18:25,600 the only other change is that the front set back be uh 5 ft. 2409 03:18:24,239 --> 03:18:30,319 » I'll second that. >> Have a motion by Commissioner Southwick 2410 03:18:27,600 --> 03:18:34,319 and second by Commissioner Shenot. Roll call vote. Uh, Miss Pagano. 2411 03:18:32,800 --> 03:18:36,560 » Commissioner Amadov. >> Yes. 2412 03:18:35,359 --> 03:18:39,120 » Commissioner Humphre. >> I. 2413 03:18:37,680 --> 03:18:41,600 » Commissioner Sando. >> Yes. 2414 03:18:40,239 --> 03:18:44,000 » Commissioner Southwick. >> Yes. 2415 03:18:42,720 --> 03:18:46,880 Commissioner Williams. >> Yes. 2416 03:18:45,680 --> 03:18:48,880 » Commissioner Shenoda. >> Yes. 2417 03:18:47,920 --> 03:18:53,920 » Chair Ross. >> Yes. That passes that. We'll go to the 2418 03:18:51,359 --> 03:18:57,760 city council. Uh again, you know, they'll go there. Go voice your opinions 2419 03:18:55,680 --> 03:19:01,359 there as well as you have here. Thank you for coming and being part of We've 2420 03:18:59,520 --> 03:19:06,160 been we've been working on this one for a little while and so this is good good 2421 03:19:03,520 --> 03:19:10,800 to see progress. So, thank you. Uh all right. Um, we'll go to item eight, 2422 03:19:09,279 --> 03:19:16,239 public hearing, airport development guidelines. And I believe that's 2423 03:19:14,399 --> 03:19:18,560 Barton, too. So, >> Brandon, 2424 03:19:17,200 --> 03:19:26,040 » do we have someone from community development? Yeah. Oh, there you go, 2425 03:19:21,040 --> 03:19:26,040 Brandon. Sorry. So, okay. 2426 03:19:26,399 --> 03:19:35,359 » Awesome. Thanks, Bon. >> Thank you. 2427 03:19:32,000 --> 03:19:40,560 Um so yeah item uh last item on the agenda is the airport development 2428 03:19:36,880 --> 03:19:48,880 guidelines. Um we have Brian Condi our airport director here and uh Jud Hill 2429 03:19:44,160 --> 03:19:55,680 our consultant from Lochner or Egyp. Yeah. Okay. Um so they're here in case 2430 03:19:52,399 --> 03:19:59,600 uh you have any questions. Um, but some of the thing items that we'd like the 2431 03:19:57,040 --> 03:20:03,920 planning commission to consider are do these guidelines provide a structure 2432 03:20:01,520 --> 03:20:07,840 that establishes procedures and expectations for developing on the 2433 03:20:05,600 --> 03:20:12,560 airport? Uh, do the guidelines help improve safety and professionalism? 2434 03:20:10,560 --> 03:20:18,399 And last, do the guidelines help accomplish the airport's mission? Um, so 2435 03:20:16,399 --> 03:20:23,920 just give a little background of the airport. So it was um established in 2436 03:20:21,760 --> 03:20:31,680 1943 and um so it's seen a lot of years. Um 2437 03:20:29,200 --> 03:20:36,479 it's changed quite a bit from what it was originally to what it is now. Um 2438 03:20:34,560 --> 03:20:44,399 some of the buildings that were built in uh when it was originally 2439 03:20:38,640 --> 03:20:50,560 um I guess well in 1943 there are still buildings there that are original. So, 2440 03:20:47,279 --> 03:20:55,600 um, so you have a big variety of, um, new buildings and buildings that have 2441 03:20:52,560 --> 03:21:01,600 been there, um, a long time. Um, here are some images that I took. Um, so 2442 03:20:58,960 --> 03:21:08,160 there are some, um, some buildings that need some love, that need some 2443 03:21:04,160 --> 03:21:16,239 renovations, um, redevelopment. Um but then uh yeah the Ogden airport or Ogden 2444 03:21:12,000 --> 03:21:22,239 Hinkley airport is uh has seen a lot of investment um throughout the years as 2445 03:21:18,399 --> 03:21:29,760 well. We have the the Breeze Airways um we have our new uh terminal um that was 2446 03:21:26,000 --> 03:21:35,920 recently opened which is is amazing. Um there's lots of businesses that have 2447 03:21:31,439 --> 03:21:40,239 invested um on the airport as well as um around the airport. So 2448 03:21:38,880 --> 03:21:46,560 um you can kind of see that the airport's changing um in a positive way. 2449 03:21:44,720 --> 03:21:54,000 um also has a lot of fixed space operations um where airplanes are 2450 03:21:50,399 --> 03:22:02,319 maintained and um where um people using the airport um can can 2451 03:21:58,399 --> 03:22:09,920 receive service. So there's um our goal is for the airport to to be a 2452 03:22:05,120 --> 03:22:16,479 professional regional airport. And so um as the airport grows there are three 2453 03:22:12,560 --> 03:22:24,080 areas three group areas um that are part of this the guidelines. So group one is 2454 03:22:19,760 --> 03:22:30,160 your general aviation. So um your small airplanes single prop airplanes um so a 2455 03:22:27,680 --> 03:22:35,520 lot of lot of the older hangers are generally in this found in this area. Um 2456 03:22:33,840 --> 03:22:41,200 just I guess said to be yeah south of the 2457 03:22:38,239 --> 03:22:48,479 terminal and group two is more of your commercial or corporate um hangers 2458 03:22:45,279 --> 03:22:57,200 associated with um sky share and your skydiving other um 2459 03:22:54,880 --> 03:23:02,399 yeah just airplane what am I trying to say? Um basically 2460 03:22:59,760 --> 03:23:08,720 airplane training. So, and then group three is an area that's planned for 2461 03:23:05,439 --> 03:23:16,319 larger uh airplanes for large hangers and um we have seen interest recently um 2462 03:23:13,520 --> 03:23:21,279 in this area as well. So, um the airport's trying to adapt to change and 2463 03:23:19,120 --> 03:23:28,399 the development the airport development guidelines are um supposed to help 2464 03:23:26,319 --> 03:23:35,439 achieve the the goal of becoming a professional regional airport. This uh 2465 03:23:31,760 --> 03:23:41,520 aerial shows just ex existing structures on and off the airport. Um it highlights 2466 03:23:39,359 --> 03:23:48,239 structures that are um part of the airport and then the the 2467 03:23:44,239 --> 03:23:55,600 yellow uh just shows those uh buildings adjacent to the airport boundary. 2468 03:23:53,120 --> 03:23:59,840 Um so what do the guidelines achieve? So they provide an overall framework uh for 2469 03:23:57,760 --> 03:24:05,200 how development, redevelopment and infrastructure occur on the airport. 2470 03:24:02,399 --> 03:24:11,760 They establish clear processes and procedures. They help improve safety and 2471 03:24:08,080 --> 03:24:18,880 security. They improve professionalism and how it operates. And then it also 2472 03:24:14,880 --> 03:24:24,640 assures that FA standards are met for funding uh future funding. And then it 2473 03:24:21,760 --> 03:24:30,399 sets expectations on um what happens once uh someone receives a building 2474 03:24:27,760 --> 03:24:34,479 permit and has a lease agreement with the airport. 2475 03:24:32,080 --> 03:24:38,960 So the guidelines these are this is kind of like a table of contents. So you have 2476 03:24:36,319 --> 03:24:45,840 your purpose that describes the purpose of the development guidelines. Um there 2477 03:24:41,920 --> 03:24:50,880 are definitions specific to the airport um different than what you would have in 2478 03:24:48,399 --> 03:24:56,640 our like zoning ordinance. And then it includes the design review process, 2479 03:24:53,520 --> 03:25:02,960 development areas, building guidelines, structure, exterior or exterior 2480 03:24:58,560 --> 03:25:08,399 structures and then construction. So it describes the timeline and expectations 2481 03:25:05,920 --> 03:25:13,439 of what happens during construction. And then there is a pend an appendix that 2482 03:25:10,319 --> 03:25:17,200 includes checklists and um other criteria. 2483 03:25:15,120 --> 03:25:22,239 So I'll kind of go through these uh three that are highlighted. 2484 03:25:19,680 --> 03:25:28,560 So, the design review process. So, the airport um anytime they have a property 2485 03:25:25,279 --> 03:25:35,520 available, they'll um they'll put out an RFP or request for proposal and um so 2486 03:25:32,720 --> 03:25:42,399 anyone that's interested in developing on the airport can submit a proposal and 2487 03:25:39,520 --> 03:25:48,640 there there's a pre-application meeting that's required with the airport staff 2488 03:25:44,960 --> 03:25:53,920 and it allows them to review all of the um applications 2489 03:25:50,640 --> 03:26:01,760 to see what fits the airport's mission best and then there's a conceptual plan 2490 03:25:57,600 --> 03:26:10,239 um that's part of or that's required after that and then the RFP selection um 2491 03:26:06,479 --> 03:26:15,120 criteria is included in that. So once a applicant is selected they'd be required 2492 03:26:12,479 --> 03:26:20,479 to submit a preliminary development plan. It's reviewed by the airport and 2493 03:26:18,080 --> 03:26:26,640 then it's also reviewed by city staff here at at um at city hall. And then the 2494 03:26:24,160 --> 03:26:34,399 final development plan would be checked for meeting NEPA um approval FA airspace 2495 03:26:32,080 --> 03:26:40,160 clearance. So it's typically with heights and then building plan approval. 2496 03:26:37,760 --> 03:26:45,200 So building would uh the building division would verify that it meets all 2497 03:26:42,239 --> 03:26:51,760 building codes and then there would be a lease established with that applicant. 2498 03:26:49,439 --> 03:26:56,160 Um and I'm not going to go through all these but there um the building 2499 03:26:54,239 --> 03:27:02,399 guidelines address things such as height limits uh the size of a building what 2500 03:26:59,600 --> 03:27:08,880 the setback requirements are. that verifies that fire protection is 2501 03:27:05,120 --> 03:27:14,239 considered. Um considers uh the type of structures that are allowed, what type 2502 03:27:10,960 --> 03:27:20,960 of building materials they can have. Um so yeah, it just verifies that 2503 03:27:16,000 --> 03:27:25,600 everything is in compliance. It uh makes sure that any new construction meets 2504 03:27:22,960 --> 03:27:32,479 current building standards, that any remodels or additions or changes to use 2505 03:27:28,800 --> 03:27:38,160 that those buildings um if there is a modification to them, they would be 2506 03:27:35,040 --> 03:27:43,040 required to be um brought up to current building standards. And then it sets 2507 03:27:40,720 --> 03:27:48,160 clear limitations on residential uses. So only snooze rooms would be allowed. 2508 03:27:46,000 --> 03:27:52,080 So, no residential uh uses. >> Can't live in your hanger anymore. 2509 03:27:49,439 --> 03:27:55,520 » Can't live in your hanger anymore. Nope. That's no longer allow or wasn't 2510 03:27:54,640 --> 03:27:58,800 allowed. But >> hanger has to have a plane in it. 2511 03:27:57,279 --> 03:28:01,279 » Yeah. Yeah. The hanger has to have a plane. 2512 03:27:59,359 --> 03:28:04,560 » No more running businesses for security for nothing. 2513 03:28:02,000 --> 03:28:09,040 » And all construction uh must be done by a licensed contractor, which 2514 03:28:06,560 --> 03:28:15,520 unfortunately hasn't always been the case. 2515 03:28:10,319 --> 03:28:20,720 So uh so the highlights um so as I said before we want the Ogden airport to be a 2516 03:28:18,080 --> 03:28:27,439 professional regional airport. Uh we want the all hangers to be designed with 2517 03:28:24,399 --> 03:28:33,840 um using still and compliant and be in compliance with fire code standards. Um, 2518 03:28:31,200 --> 03:28:39,920 so one of the regulations would be that buildings that 2519 03:28:37,040 --> 03:28:44,239 are visible uh and within 100 ft of the public rideway that they meet the same 2520 03:28:42,399 --> 03:28:48,720 requirements that we have for commercial and industrial building standards that 2521 03:28:46,720 --> 03:28:54,399 are outlined in the unified development code. So, um what that does is it just 2522 03:28:52,160 --> 03:28:59,520 um improves the overall appearance of the airport. Um 2523 03:28:57,680 --> 03:29:06,080 and it still allows um hangers that are not 2524 03:29:02,800 --> 03:29:11,920 visible from the public rideway to be completely metal. the the requirement 2525 03:29:09,040 --> 03:29:19,120 for commercial and industrial buildings basically states that um they have to 2526 03:29:15,279 --> 03:29:23,200 have some sort of uh masonry or hardy board some sort of material that 2527 03:29:20,640 --> 03:29:26,560 improves the appearance of the the structure. 2528 03:29:24,720 --> 03:29:32,399 So that's what that requirement is addressing 2529 03:29:28,960 --> 03:29:38,560 um utility services or utilities serving uh buildings. So the lease or lei is 2530 03:29:36,479 --> 03:29:43,120 responsible for connecting the existing systems. 2531 03:29:40,319 --> 03:29:50,560 So such as power, water, natural gas, storm water, waste water, all those 2532 03:29:44,640 --> 03:29:55,680 things um would be the be required. And then um the guidelines also address 2533 03:29:53,760 --> 03:30:03,439 things such as you know how the property around the hanger is maintained. Um it 2534 03:29:58,319 --> 03:30:11,760 addresses outdoor storage. Um it ver or it makes sure the FA standards are kept. 2535 03:30:08,000 --> 03:30:16,479 Any attached um structure or an accessory to the the hanger would be 2536 03:30:14,319 --> 03:30:21,600 required to be approved by the airport director and FAA. And then also set 2537 03:30:19,520 --> 03:30:31,200 standards for lighting, landscaping, parking, signs, fencing, and security. 2538 03:30:27,279 --> 03:30:36,720 Um, as I said before, so this makes it very clear that the uh airport struct 2539 03:30:34,720 --> 03:30:41,920 any structure within the airport property would not be allowed to have um 2540 03:30:40,160 --> 03:30:48,720 sleeping accommodations. So it does allow for snooze and crew rest 2541 03:30:45,600 --> 03:30:53,439 facilities, but those would be um required to be followed by the or they 2542 03:30:51,840 --> 03:31:00,560 would be required to follow the FAA policies for those. So no overnight 2543 03:30:56,319 --> 03:31:05,840 state. And then um last just the this I think is 2544 03:31:04,080 --> 03:31:11,920 going to really help and be important is the construction timeline. So once um 2545 03:31:09,359 --> 03:31:16,880 someone receives a permit uh to construct their their 2546 03:31:14,399 --> 03:31:24,800 hanger or other structure, they're required to um do it in a in a specific 2547 03:31:21,200 --> 03:31:29,680 time frame so that someone doesn't get a permit and then start their their hanger 2548 03:31:27,840 --> 03:31:33,920 and then five years later, you know, they're still under construction. So 2549 03:31:31,439 --> 03:31:40,080 this this is meant to protect against that. So once someone once property is 2550 03:31:37,040 --> 03:31:46,800 leased to someone, they're actively making progress and um that property is 2551 03:31:43,120 --> 03:31:53,040 just not kept forever and doesn't um does I guess the permit is um not not 2552 03:31:51,600 --> 03:31:58,720 finished. So >> So how do you in what's the consequence 2553 03:31:55,680 --> 03:32:03,600 of not finishing? Do they not get to finish or it's taken away from them or 2554 03:32:01,200 --> 03:32:06,560 » Yeah. So they they're they would have a lease agreement. 2555 03:32:04,960 --> 03:32:10,800 » So they would agree to a specific timeline 2556 03:32:07,920 --> 03:32:15,920 » and then um I don't know if we got into the details, 2557 03:32:12,880 --> 03:32:19,680 but I'm sure you could probably speak more to that. 2558 03:32:18,640 --> 03:32:22,680 » Yeah. Are you okay? >> Yeah. 2559 03:32:23,600 --> 03:32:31,760 » Hi, my name is Jud Hill. I'm with Eegis. Uh we're the firm that was working on 2560 03:32:28,640 --> 03:32:38,720 putting this together. Um, as far as what happens, it is set up basically so 2561 03:32:35,680 --> 03:32:42,560 you don't get uh two situations arising. Someone leasing the land and never 2562 03:32:40,239 --> 03:32:47,120 building on it, at which point >> um it's going to be a net negative 2563 03:32:44,479 --> 03:32:51,439 benefit to the airport. Yes, the >> airport is gaining the revenue of the 2564 03:32:48,720 --> 03:32:54,720 ground lease, but that's it's uh also about the functional use of it. There's 2565 03:32:53,680 --> 03:32:57,760 a lot of people that want to be there. You're in a place where people want to 2566 03:32:55,920 --> 03:33:02,880 be. you've got a great facility >> that more people are wanting to be at. 2567 03:32:59,920 --> 03:33:06,640 So, if there's space available to use for the benefit of aviation, you want to 2568 03:33:04,720 --> 03:33:10,800 make sure that's happening. So, you don't want the land banking of just 2569 03:33:08,479 --> 03:33:15,200 leasing it and not building anything. And then through stuff like uh 2570 03:33:13,520 --> 03:33:21,279 construction type bonds where hey, you have to get it done by X period of time 2571 03:33:17,760 --> 03:33:24,960 or um you've got the money set aside to return it to its natural state at the 2572 03:33:23,279 --> 03:33:30,479 your lease gets terminated. you have to return it to the original state, which 2573 03:33:27,200 --> 03:33:36,239 usually includes um completely tearing out any foundation that may have been 2574 03:33:32,800 --> 03:33:42,319 built. Um or it could just be a matter of the land lease or the uh going to 2575 03:33:40,800 --> 03:33:46,319 keep the land where they may have done some bit of earth work, get it back to a 2576 03:33:44,640 --> 03:33:51,520 point where it's no longer and then it can go on to the next available person 2577 03:33:48,880 --> 03:33:55,840 that uh would want to put in an RFP. Is that common for people to come in and 2578 03:33:53,680 --> 03:33:59,279 land bank? Yes. At airports. Okay. >> I actually before this job, I had 2579 03:33:57,840 --> 03:34:04,080 Brian's job. I was an airport director down to Moab. And I actually made sure 2580 03:34:02,000 --> 03:34:08,080 to put this in there because I had that exactly happen to me where someone came 2581 03:34:06,319 --> 03:34:11,279 in. They were really excited, really convinced the county that they wanted to 2582 03:34:09,920 --> 03:34:14,800 they were going to build this great massive hanger and it was going to 2583 03:34:13,200 --> 03:34:19,840 benefit the airport. Lots of planes could stay there. Two years later, there 2584 03:34:16,800 --> 03:34:23,520 was absolutely nothing. and eventually had to work through the process and they 2585 03:34:21,840 --> 03:34:28,000 had to relinquish their lease. Someone else built on it and it's now a great 2586 03:34:25,120 --> 03:34:32,600 big hanger that lots of people use. >> Great. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. 2587 03:34:33,518 --> 03:34:38,640 [clears throat] >> So yeah, uh we would recommend that the 2588 03:34:37,040 --> 03:34:44,399 planning commission recommend approval of the airport development guidelines. 2589 03:34:42,800 --> 03:34:49,160 » All right, that's my presentation. >> Any questions uh for Mr. Ripia? 2590 03:34:50,319 --> 03:34:57,120 I figured I'd wait till after the >> Yeah. So, okay. Uh well, this is a 2591 03:34:54,319 --> 03:35:03,359 public meeting, so uh if public hearing, so there's anybody here like to address 2592 03:34:59,760 --> 03:35:07,560 this project or uh moving forward, uh please come forward now. So, 2593 03:35:10,000 --> 03:35:16,319 so >> do 2594 03:35:13,359 --> 03:35:23,680 just one question. So as part of this proposal, we're existing 2595 03:35:19,840 --> 03:35:26,399 users at the airport notice on this. >> Okay. 2596 03:35:25,520 --> 03:35:33,600 » The picture I >> All right. Please state your name. 2597 03:35:29,520 --> 03:35:37,040 » So Brian Condi a Ogden city resident also the airport director 2598 03:35:36,000 --> 03:35:43,520 Ogden. >> Um the important part here is that we 2599 03:35:39,439 --> 03:35:47,200 have separated out the groups. So, the master plan that was approved by the 2600 03:35:45,040 --> 03:35:53,040 city council and the mission of the mayor is to protect the local pilots, 2601 03:35:50,720 --> 03:35:58,960 promote commercial air service and promote economic growth. And so, this uh 2602 03:35:57,200 --> 03:36:03,760 layout development guide protects that. Group one protects for the small 2603 03:36:01,040 --> 03:36:07,600 aircraft owners. So, no large corporation could go into group one and 2604 03:36:05,920 --> 03:36:12,560 tear down a bunch of small hangers and put up a large hanger. So, that 2605 03:36:09,520 --> 03:36:18,319 accomplishes that. The group two uh the terminal area is protecting for 2606 03:36:14,640 --> 03:36:22,720 commercial expansion and that area we can get six uh jetway gates in there 2607 03:36:20,880 --> 03:36:27,120 which is about half a million passengers. We're 40 years away from 2608 03:36:25,520 --> 03:36:32,239 that. Don't get excited but we're preserving for that eventuality. 2609 03:36:30,080 --> 03:36:35,040 We are too close to Salt Lake. If you want to go anywhere in the world, go to 2610 03:36:33,439 --> 03:36:40,399 Salt Lake. But if you want to go to a leisure destination, that's our market 2611 03:36:37,439 --> 03:36:45,520 right there. So um we're preserving that. The business growth is in group 2612 03:36:43,200 --> 03:36:51,359 two. So that's like the King Airs or the small jets. And the group three is for 2613 03:36:48,880 --> 03:37:00,720 economic growth either for manufacturers or for um Wasatch Peaks type um hangers 2614 03:36:57,200 --> 03:37:05,920 up there. Now we were in the middle of our primary management documents and 2615 03:37:03,520 --> 03:37:12,319 this was an important item that came up. So last year we were tasked with 2616 03:37:08,080 --> 03:37:17,120 developing this. We've talked with um internal city organizations, the mayor 2617 03:37:14,960 --> 03:37:22,239 appointed airport advisory committee and we've had several airport user groups 2618 03:37:19,439 --> 03:37:27,040 which is open to the public and Jud came out and presented this to the public. So 2619 03:37:24,000 --> 03:37:31,040 they have had this since November and given us their input. So, this is like 2620 03:37:29,120 --> 03:37:36,399 the 16th uh revision that we've taken everybody's 2621 03:37:33,359 --> 03:37:42,640 input to make sure we can accomplish the mission of the council's master plan and 2622 03:37:39,359 --> 03:37:45,600 the the mayor's vision of the airport. So, that this document will help us do 2623 03:37:44,800 --> 03:37:50,239 that. >> Sweet. Thank you, Brian. All right. Is 2624 03:37:48,640 --> 03:37:53,680 there any other comments from the from the public online? 2625 03:37:53,040 --> 03:37:57,359 » Online. >> All righty. I could get a motion to 2626 03:37:55,840 --> 03:37:59,920 close the public hearing. Make a motion to close the public hearing. 2627 03:37:59,279 --> 03:38:03,520 » Second. >> Got a motion from Commissioner Sandow 2628 03:38:01,760 --> 03:38:05,200 and a second from Commissioner South. All in favor? 2629 03:38:04,800 --> 03:38:08,479 » I >> I Okay, let's bring it back. 2630 03:38:07,439 --> 03:38:11,279 » Move. Any oppose? >> Move to approve the 2631 03:38:09,680 --> 03:38:13,520 » I have some questions. >> Okay, 2632 03:38:12,080 --> 03:38:15,840 » go ahead. >> Um, sorry. 2633 03:38:15,040 --> 03:38:19,279 » Not a problem. >> As I look at this map in particular, 2634 03:38:17,600 --> 03:38:23,920 there are two things that strike me that I kind of like to have some answers to. 2635 03:38:21,760 --> 03:38:29,040 The first is in the terminal area for its preservation expansion are a large 2636 03:38:26,640 --> 03:38:32,720 number of hangers for small private general aviation folks that will 2637 03:38:30,560 --> 03:38:36,880 eventually be removed. There is not enough room in group one to 2638 03:38:35,040 --> 03:38:40,720 accommodate replacing them in any way, which means shrinking the number of 2639 03:38:38,399 --> 03:38:45,120 general avi general aviation hangers available on site for the small private 2640 03:38:42,720 --> 03:38:50,239 pilots that live in the area right now. How is that being addressed? 2641 03:38:48,319 --> 03:38:53,720 » Maybe. Yeah, Brian, can you come back up and address that? 2642 03:38:56,800 --> 03:39:03,439 » The are are you talking the redevelopment district? 2643 03:39:00,319 --> 03:39:06,720 » I'm talking the terminal district. There's a significant number of small 2644 03:39:05,359 --> 03:39:11,279 private pilot >> hangers in the current terminal district 2645 03:39:08,880 --> 03:39:13,600 that will eventually be removed. >> Correct. 2646 03:39:11,600 --> 03:39:19,279 » There is almost full buildout and currently as identified as group one. 2647 03:39:16,640 --> 03:39:23,359 How are you intending to replace those? >> We're not planning on replacing. 2648 03:39:20,960 --> 03:39:29,200 » So, >> we we've been given three missions. 2649 03:39:26,800 --> 03:39:34,640 » Ogden is primarily a general aviation airport. It primarily services the local 2650 03:39:32,160 --> 03:39:38,720 pilots in the area from South Davis and so forth. The next thing I noticed that 2651 03:39:36,720 --> 03:39:43,920 I was going to ask about is the area that's on the west side or yeah, I guess 2652 03:39:41,279 --> 03:39:48,160 it's west side of development of the jet center space where AV is at is not 2653 03:39:45,760 --> 03:39:52,720 identified for future development or is that already owned by someone? Is it 2654 03:39:50,560 --> 03:39:59,359 between the end of the thresholds of runway 3 and 35? 2655 03:39:56,160 --> 03:40:04,080 Uh yeah, that area is not uh able to be developed because of the uh airspace 2656 03:40:01,520 --> 03:40:07,600 restrictions in that area for for a vertical construction. We can put ramp 2657 03:40:05,920 --> 03:40:09,840 out there and park aircraft, but no vertical. 2658 03:40:08,239 --> 03:40:13,279 » But that so the westside development that was originally planned for that 2659 03:40:11,200 --> 03:40:18,800 can't be built now. >> Correct. 2660 03:40:14,160 --> 03:40:26,479 » Okay. and under this configuration. >> So in 2016, it was brought up in the 2661 03:40:21,920 --> 03:40:33,920 master plan that uh runway 321 is your primary runway and you don't need runway 2662 03:40:29,279 --> 03:40:39,439 1735 and that would open up a lot more development 2663 03:40:35,600 --> 03:40:43,120 uh potential 600,000 square feet. Uh but we would lose several of our flight 2664 03:40:41,359 --> 03:40:48,560 schools because that's their main >> the primary runway that's used as 1735 2665 03:40:47,040 --> 03:40:50,560 » because it's primarily for flight training. 2666 03:40:49,120 --> 03:40:55,120 » Correct. >> But again, what's the mission of the 2667 03:40:52,720 --> 03:40:59,920 airport? I don't see flight schools anywhere in the mission of the airport. 2668 03:40:57,600 --> 03:41:04,960 » Protecting the local pilots is in group one. Protecting for commercial air 2669 03:41:02,239 --> 03:41:09,760 service that is in the terminal area. Now, if we let somebody come in there 2670 03:41:07,200 --> 03:41:14,960 and build a hanger with a 40-year lease, now we can't do anything in that 2671 03:41:11,680 --> 03:41:19,120 terminal area for 40 years. So, that group of individuals, they will be able 2672 03:41:16,800 --> 03:41:25,279 to keep their hangers on 5-year renewing terms for probably 20, 25 years until we 2673 03:41:22,319 --> 03:41:30,479 need that space. So, that is protecting the local pilot. Well, short term 2674 03:41:29,040 --> 03:41:35,359 long term, you're shrinking what the local pilot has access to. 2675 03:41:33,439 --> 03:41:40,720 Uh, has there ever been any discussion to like Salt Lake number two and Salt 2676 03:41:38,080 --> 03:41:44,560 Lake International both have the in essence tea hangers without the sides 2677 03:41:42,560 --> 03:41:48,319 that they lease >> um and rent out for a lot less expense 2678 03:41:46,399 --> 03:41:51,120 behind all the large hangers. Is there any discussion about any of that 2679 03:41:49,680 --> 03:41:53,600 happening at Ogden? >> Um, 2680 03:41:51,920 --> 03:41:58,319 » because I did notice that there were a few older spots that are empty in group 2681 03:41:55,680 --> 03:42:02,080 one when I looked last night. Uh those are all in the redevelopment 2682 03:42:00,239 --> 03:42:04,479 district and we have individuals wanting to come in and put in new tea hangers. 2683 03:42:03,760 --> 03:42:07,680 » That's fantastic. >> That are compliant with the FA 2684 03:42:06,399 --> 03:42:11,680 standards. Okay. >> What's put in now is not compliant with 2685 03:42:09,600 --> 03:42:14,560 any FA standard. Not even for the group one. 2686 03:42:12,640 --> 03:42:18,080 » We don't have the proper wing clearance. So a group one aircraft is 49 ft or 2687 03:42:17,040 --> 03:42:22,479 less. >> But we have small aircraft and jets in 2688 03:42:20,319 --> 03:42:28,080 that group one area right now. We don't want to build a 300,000lb ramp 2689 03:42:25,279 --> 03:42:32,479 for a jet and put a 3,000lb aircraft on it. So, anyone that goes into the group 2690 03:42:30,880 --> 03:42:37,120 one, they're going to put in small tea hangers or box hangers. If we want to 2691 03:42:34,560 --> 03:42:41,920 maximize it, we will put in tea hangers. And we have four options in that area to 2692 03:42:39,840 --> 03:42:47,120 maximize the number of hangers, more than we have now, or to put in box 2693 03:42:44,160 --> 03:42:51,840 hangers. Now, the shade hangers, uh, they pencil out not much more than a a 2694 03:42:50,800 --> 03:42:55,040 tea hanger. >> Yeah. 2695 03:42:53,279 --> 03:42:57,840 » That they not only have to have the downward lift, but then the wind comes 2696 03:42:56,640 --> 03:43:03,120 up underneath. They've got to be structured to withstand, you know, gale 2697 03:43:00,479 --> 03:43:07,120 force winds. So, that that's a possibility. If somebody wants to invest 2698 03:43:05,200 --> 03:43:10,479 in that, the land is going to be available for them 2699 03:43:09,520 --> 03:43:13,920 to invest in that. >> Can I ask a quick question? So, our two 2700 03:43:12,000 --> 03:43:17,279 closest airports that would be available for like these small pilot planes is 2701 03:43:15,920 --> 03:43:18,399 what? Bountiful and Logan. Is that correct? 2702 03:43:17,760 --> 03:43:24,239 » Morgan. >> Oh, there is a Morgan one. Just curious 2703 03:43:21,840 --> 03:43:27,520 what what the options are close by >> for 2704 03:43:25,279 --> 03:43:30,560 » Yeah. >> That is a 2705 03:43:28,560 --> 03:43:35,760 » Yeah, go ahead. That's >> Are we looking reason why is flying? 2706 03:43:33,760 --> 03:43:39,840 » That's an elected official decision on how much they want to protect the flight 2707 03:43:38,000 --> 03:43:45,120 schools at the expense of the other three. I asked just because uh you know 2708 03:43:42,880 --> 03:43:49,359 uh my father's private pilot had a small plane. He houses it at the Ogden airport 2709 03:43:46,960 --> 03:43:53,199 for a while and but then uh my other friend has one in Bountiful and he just 2710 03:43:51,120 --> 03:43:56,640 commutes down to there and you know I got a few friends that that do have 2711 03:43:54,800 --> 03:43:59,600 small planes but I know there's options around. 2712 03:43:57,920 --> 03:44:05,520 » There are there are to answer those specific airports. U Bountiful is a 2713 03:44:02,239 --> 03:44:10,239 unique situ well semi unique situation. Um there's 46 public use airports in the 2714 03:44:08,880 --> 03:44:14,800 state. And two of them are privately owned, 2715 03:44:12,960 --> 03:44:20,399 Fairfield and Bountiful. Okay. >> So basically the FAA rules do not apply. 2716 03:44:17,760 --> 03:44:25,439 They generally try to keep so like the spacing they won't allow things to be 2717 03:44:22,479 --> 03:44:30,399 get built that are too close to one another, but not any of the existing 2718 03:44:27,279 --> 03:44:35,359 hangers have proper spacing. Their new ones built do have that. They do have an 2719 03:44:33,279 --> 03:44:39,120 incredibly long wait list at last I heard just for a 2720 03:44:37,199 --> 03:44:42,800 » not even undercover just a parking space. They have a 2721 03:44:40,479 --> 03:44:48,560 » 75 person plus weight list >> to get into there. Um 2722 03:44:46,080 --> 03:44:52,640 so this as Brian said the terminal area. Yes, there are the small hangers there 2723 03:44:50,960 --> 03:44:57,439 but that's protecting for the very long term. Obviously they're not just getting 2724 03:44:55,680 --> 03:45:01,439 being displaced at this time. >> No, but they will be displaced at some 2725 03:44:59,359 --> 03:45:05,760 point in the future. Yes. that reduces the protection of the small 2726 03:45:04,080 --> 03:45:10,479 pilot in this area because the total number of hangers available becomes less 2727 03:45:08,319 --> 03:45:14,560 and if there's already weight lists no one wants to fly out of Salt Lake as a 2728 03:45:12,000 --> 03:45:18,080 general pilot and number two is a long ways and in the middle of nowhere and 2729 03:45:16,399 --> 03:45:21,359 Bountiful is difficult because there's a long wait list so that pushes pilots to 2730 03:45:20,560 --> 03:45:24,960 Brigham City >> Brigham City would be the next closest 2731 03:45:23,439 --> 03:45:28,080 they're developing Logan >> and we're comfortable pushing our local 2732 03:45:26,720 --> 03:45:31,920 pilots up there because there's not enough space in Ogden 2733 03:45:30,080 --> 03:45:39,199 comes our choice, right? >> Yeah. It's and I, you know, on on the 2734 03:45:34,960 --> 03:45:43,199 larger picture, the state is um Salt Lake is very not in favor of small 2735 03:45:41,760 --> 03:45:47,520 aircraft. Every one of those shade hangers describing 2736 03:45:44,560 --> 03:45:51,040 » an hour to get to the runway from they rip those out. Those are being I had a 2737 03:45:50,239 --> 03:45:54,239 couple friends that >> Yeah. 2738 03:45:51,439 --> 03:45:57,760 » had to move down to South Valley. Um, and then Logan, they're actively 2739 03:45:56,239 --> 03:46:00,880 building hangers as well >> because Ogden used to be the largest 2740 03:45:59,199 --> 03:46:05,439 general aviation airport in the state and we're not anymore. 2741 03:46:03,680 --> 03:46:07,439 » Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for answering 2742 03:46:06,720 --> 03:46:11,680 that. >> Now, now the people in the terminal 2743 03:46:09,359 --> 03:46:17,040 area, when I showed up, there were some issues on the um surrendering of their 2744 03:46:15,600 --> 03:46:21,199 property, the reversion of their property. Uh-huh. 2745 03:46:18,239 --> 03:46:24,479 » With the new lease policy, there's no reversion, so they can keep their 2746 03:46:22,720 --> 03:46:28,000 hangers. So, they were going to give them up. Actually, some of them were 2747 03:46:25,760 --> 03:46:32,080 going to give up in 2020. So, the fact that they've got another 20 years 2748 03:46:29,920 --> 03:46:37,279 potential out of their hangers gave them much more value than they would have 2749 03:46:35,279 --> 03:46:41,040 under the old system. And I have not heard anybody complain about the new 2750 03:46:39,359 --> 03:46:46,399 system because they're happy with 20 more years rather than surrendering 2751 03:46:43,199 --> 03:46:51,520 their hangers. there also were part of that discussion and again I have not 2752 03:46:49,279 --> 03:46:56,880 received any verbal or written um complaints about that. We need to 2753 03:46:53,600 --> 03:47:02,880 protect uh for commercial growth hopefully sooner than later because that 2754 03:47:00,319 --> 03:47:07,920 aviation population is only a very small portion of the users of the airport and 2755 03:47:05,199 --> 03:47:11,359 we want to let the rest of northern Utah come to the airport and fly to leisure 2756 03:47:09,840 --> 03:47:15,840 destinations. So short term we are protecting the 2757 03:47:13,680 --> 03:47:19,199 local pilots and giving them 20 extra years that they didn't have two years 2758 03:47:17,279 --> 03:47:21,920 ago. I think most of them are very happy. 2759 03:47:20,000 --> 03:47:26,319 » Yeah. Thank you. >> Did is that all your questions you have? 2760 03:47:23,439 --> 03:47:30,000 » That's everything. Yes. All right. >> Chair, I'll now move to approve the 2761 03:47:28,319 --> 03:47:32,960 airport development guidelines and forward it to the city council. 2762 03:47:32,080 --> 03:47:36,479 » Second. >> Motion from Commissioner Southwick. 2763 03:47:34,720 --> 03:47:41,600 Second from Commissioner Sandal. It's roll call vote. Miss Pagano. 2764 03:47:39,199 --> 03:47:44,160 » Commissioner Amada. Yes, >> Commissioner Humphre. 2765 03:47:42,960 --> 03:47:46,560 » I >> Commissioner Sando. 2766 03:47:45,439 --> 03:47:49,279 » Yes, >> Commissioner Southwick. 2767 03:47:48,239 --> 03:47:52,560 » I >> Commissioner Williams. 2768 03:47:50,640 --> 03:47:54,880 » Yes. >> Commissioner Shenoda. 2769 03:47:53,760 --> 03:47:58,960 » Yes. >> Chair Ross. 2770 03:47:55,840 --> 03:48:03,680 » Yes. That passes and city council. Thank you everyone. Appreciate it. 2771 03:48:01,840 --> 03:48:07,920 » Sorry to keep you so late. Had a lot going on tonight. So, all right. Uh 2772 03:48:06,479 --> 03:48:13,680 we'll move into our review correspondence. 2773 03:48:10,080 --> 03:48:19,359 So, we did uh send you several pieces of correspondence. Uh, one of them was a a 2774 03:48:16,560 --> 03:48:24,479 survey from a private consultant who's also served on 2775 03:48:22,160 --> 03:48:29,359 the diversity commission and helped us out planning. So, you you aren't 2776 03:48:27,359 --> 03:48:32,080 required to take that, but if you do, you can. 2777 03:48:30,080 --> 03:48:37,920 » I did just because. >> So, all right. That all 2778 03:48:35,120 --> 03:48:42,239 right. Thank you. Um, review. Well, let's go from the Manny's not here, so I 2779 03:48:40,560 --> 03:48:46,640 guess citizen advisory. >> So, we didn't meet, but our next meeting 2780 03:48:44,479 --> 03:48:50,923 is scheduled. Oh, so this is for the community and economic development 2781 03:48:48,640 --> 03:48:55,279 citizens advisory committee. Their [clears throat] next meeting is planned 2782 03:48:52,479 --> 03:49:01,520 for Wednesday, October 14th at 6 p.m. There is a vacancy. So, if you're 2783 03:48:57,840 --> 03:49:08,560 interested in how the city spends federal grant funds 2784 03:49:05,359 --> 03:49:13,439 uh from the uh Department of Housing and Urban, United States Department of 2785 03:49:10,800 --> 03:49:21,120 Housing and Urban Development and how it spends money in uh on the four priority 2786 03:49:17,359 --> 03:49:26,560 needs which are improving quality and increasing supply of decent affordable 2787 03:49:23,760 --> 03:49:31,680 housing. two, expanding home ownership opportunities, and three, stimulating 2788 03:49:29,520 --> 03:49:35,760 economic growth, and four, improving physical appearance and safety of 2789 03:49:34,319 --> 03:49:44,479 neighborhoods. If you're interested in that, I encourage you to attend and 2790 03:49:37,680 --> 03:49:47,800 apply for the uh opening. It's exciting. >> Anything else? 2791 03:49:48,640 --> 03:49:52,479 » That it, Jeremy, >> that's it. 2792 03:49:50,239 --> 03:49:58,000 » No, we were laughing at Michelle. He realized that we can see to see you 2793 03:49:54,080 --> 03:50:04,399 Michelle's big enough off girl. >> So tired. [laughter] 2794 03:50:00,160 --> 03:50:08,000 » We can tell you James review a meeting. 2795 03:50:06,720 --> 03:50:12,239 » I think this is the longest meeting we've had in a long time. 2796 03:50:10,319 --> 03:50:16,720 » Blame it on the guy that's filling in for chair. Sorry. [laughter] 2797 03:50:15,279 --> 03:50:21,600 » Um overall, I think everything went good. One thing that I want to caution 2798 03:50:18,239 --> 03:50:26,160 on is um before the meeting there were some 2799 03:50:22,960 --> 03:50:30,479 emails sent around if let's not uh discuss some of the cases that we're 2800 03:50:28,239 --> 03:50:34,720 going to be reviewing in a meeting in emails because that that could violate 2801 03:50:32,640 --> 03:50:39,199 the open and public meetings act and we don't want to do that. Um other than 2802 03:50:37,520 --> 03:50:42,920 that I think everything went pretty well. Um 2803 03:50:43,040 --> 03:50:49,760 except I think everybody else is tired too. 2804 03:50:47,040 --> 03:50:54,560 If I can just jump in. Um I think we saw the real value of zoning. We had a 2805 03:50:52,239 --> 03:50:58,880 neighborhood where it's industrial, residential, industrial, residential, 2806 03:50:56,399 --> 03:51:04,319 and it's like, you know, how much that neighborhood 2807 03:51:00,720 --> 03:51:07,600 would have just benefited from >> a 100 years ago having zoning. 2808 03:51:06,239 --> 03:51:10,479 » Yeah. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Amen to that. We're coming 2809 03:51:09,359 --> 03:51:14,640 in a little late. >> Yeah. And um just to let you know for 2810 03:51:13,040 --> 03:51:24,080 the work session, we'll have a pretty full work session too. Um we're going to 2811 03:51:20,319 --> 03:51:30,080 have a public hearing for just a technical thing. The uh on this the 2812 03:51:28,160 --> 03:51:37,680 exchange building, the stock exchange building. There's we got a 2813 03:51:34,560 --> 03:51:46,000 federal grant 10 years ago to do historic preservation of that area 2814 03:51:41,600 --> 03:51:52,160 and um that expired and so we've got to renew the plans for that uh to continue 2815 03:51:49,680 --> 03:51:57,600 on with that and in order to do that we have to have the public hearing on it. 2816 03:51:55,359 --> 03:52:01,760 So, it's you're not going to be requested to do any action, only to hear 2817 03:51:59,840 --> 03:52:03,920 anybody in the public who wants to hear it. So, 2818 03:52:02,479 --> 03:52:06,960 » are we going to be in here then or? >> Uh, we'll be in the 2819 03:52:05,600 --> 03:52:07,840 » we'll be in the workroom. >> Okay. 2820 03:52:07,359 --> 03:52:14,479 » Okay. >> Um, I don't expect more than two people 2821 03:52:11,680 --> 03:52:18,800 to show up to that. Uh, and we'll also talk about uh the Wall Avenue corridor 2822 03:52:17,199 --> 03:52:22,800 plan and we also want to talk a little bit about the Nine Rails Creative 2823 03:52:20,399 --> 03:52:27,760 District. So, >> all right. Thank you. I have a comment 2824 03:52:25,279 --> 03:52:32,720 on the um preliminary hearing for the one that we tabled. When you see a 2825 03:52:30,720 --> 03:52:39,359 conceptual view of something, you almost feel like you have to um be okay with it 2826 03:52:35,920 --> 03:52:43,120 to pass it. I know the the housing and where it was going to be can change. But 2827 03:52:41,920 --> 03:52:48,800 I don't have a problem with something that has 22 things of and passing it if 2828 03:52:46,399 --> 03:52:53,120 planning is going to work on it. I don't have a problem with that. But I wonder 2829 03:52:50,720 --> 03:52:58,560 sometimes if we pass something with the conceptual view if we're saying okay to 2830 03:52:56,160 --> 03:53:02,239 it. That was my concern. I didn't want them to think we were okay with the 2831 03:53:00,319 --> 03:53:06,160 plan, but I didn't want to stop it either. Yeah. 2832 03:53:02,960 --> 03:53:11,439 » So, how do we manage that? Well, I I was what I was kind of 2833 03:53:08,800 --> 03:53:16,000 thinking is if you feel like the project is on track, like you're you kind of 2834 03:53:13,520 --> 03:53:20,960 see, oh, if we just make some of these changes that that will I can see what 2835 03:53:19,199 --> 03:53:26,160 that's going to look like. But if you're like, I need to see this again 2836 03:53:23,520 --> 03:53:30,880 » and see what all those changes are going to look like. That that would be the 2837 03:53:29,120 --> 03:53:34,080 time I'd say you would kind of >> That's kind of how I was feeling. I 2838 03:53:32,640 --> 03:53:37,760 needed to see that those houses weren't going to be at the bottom of a heel, 2839 03:53:36,160 --> 03:53:41,359 » you know. And I just didn't feel like I could see it. But yet, I know we've 2840 03:53:39,279 --> 03:53:44,000 passed things with 22 things before. >> Yeah. 2841 03:53:41,760 --> 03:53:45,840 » But they were different 22 things in my mind. 2842 03:53:44,640 --> 03:53:50,560 » Yeah. >> So, I just don't know if there's a 2843 03:53:47,760 --> 03:53:54,319 » that that hills a challenge. >> Yeah. 2844 03:53:51,760 --> 03:53:58,800 » Yeah. I I think it was valuable to have the meeting and get the input that was 2845 03:53:56,960 --> 03:54:03,040 received for the developer to hear that and go, 2846 03:53:59,760 --> 03:54:08,000 » "Okay, I see what we need to do." It's probably going to change a lot of our 2847 03:54:04,720 --> 03:54:11,760 layout where and I we get why we need to come up. It's going to add quite a bit 2848 03:54:09,359 --> 03:54:15,760 of time to the review, but >> it's it's important because like you 2849 03:54:14,319 --> 03:54:19,439 say, once we build this, we're going to live with it for many many years. So, 2850 03:54:18,160 --> 03:54:23,199 » well, and if we didn't make those comments in the preliminary and waited 2851 03:54:21,040 --> 03:54:26,560 till the final, that's even worse. >> Yeah. 2852 03:54:23,520 --> 03:54:32,239 » Yeah. That that was my issue. There is the key I got from you, Joe, tonight was 2853 03:54:30,640 --> 03:54:35,680 I don't understand what they're doing here. There's this doesn't make sense 2854 03:54:34,319 --> 03:54:39,120 with this and this doesn't make sense with that. Well, then I'm wondering, 2855 03:54:37,359 --> 03:54:42,720 well, if you haven't dotted the eyes and cross the tees, if there's 20 things 2856 03:54:40,640 --> 03:54:45,359 that need fixed, there's 20 need fixed. But if you haven't dotted the eyes and 2857 03:54:43,840 --> 03:54:50,880 crossed the tees on your preliminary plan, don't bring it to us. Clean that 2858 03:54:48,560 --> 03:54:55,920 up a little bit more. If you don't sound like you're confident in it, I'm not 2859 03:54:53,199 --> 03:54:58,319 confident in it. >> He said, 2860 03:54:56,720 --> 03:55:03,680 » I think they've got the right to submit it 2861 03:54:59,840 --> 03:55:08,720 » and we have to look at it. But I >> I think it benefits the developer too 2862 03:55:05,760 --> 03:55:11,920 because then they get other perspectives rather than just what they what they've 2863 03:55:10,479 --> 03:55:16,640 gone through and what they've talked to planning about. They they have they've 2864 03:55:14,239 --> 03:55:21,040 got another what seven people that that have looked at it and said I don't know 2865 03:55:18,560 --> 03:55:25,439 about this and and and some of them really could be sight specific like on 2866 03:55:23,439 --> 03:55:29,760 on this one. Yeah. with the elevation change coming down off of Jackson that 2867 03:55:27,680 --> 03:55:34,960 that could be a pretty significant issue. Whereas if it's if it's a flat 2868 03:55:32,880 --> 03:55:39,760 run in, you're not going to have the same problem. And so if there's 22 2869 03:55:37,120 --> 03:55:44,960 items, then there's 22 items. But if some of those items are potentially 2870 03:55:42,080 --> 03:55:49,439 drainage based and safety based, then yeah, they're they need to look at that 2871 03:55:46,880 --> 03:55:53,680 a little bit closer. >> Yeah. Particularly if it's going to 2872 03:55:50,880 --> 03:55:57,920 really affect the layout. It's the layout's going to change significantly. 2873 03:55:56,080 --> 03:56:03,359 You probably want to see that >> there happens to be a piece of property 2874 03:55:59,840 --> 03:56:07,920 for sale on 27th Street that butts up against this that the previous I think 2875 03:56:06,560 --> 03:56:11,600 there's been an ownership change on this. Maybe, maybe not. 2876 03:56:09,040 --> 03:56:16,160 » We've we've tried making them connect and it and 2877 03:56:13,840 --> 03:56:22,479 » I I have the property currently listed for sale. They had communicated with my 2878 03:56:18,960 --> 03:56:28,399 seller previously and had tenatively discussed purchasing it and it would 2879 03:56:26,479 --> 03:56:32,000 significantly >> improve. 2880 03:56:30,080 --> 03:56:35,199 Not that I have any >> we don't have control over it. Things 2881 03:56:33,680 --> 03:56:37,600 like that come and go. >> Yeah. 2882 03:56:35,920 --> 03:56:45,439 » But but I think uh Mr. Scatty's comment of 2883 03:56:42,960 --> 03:56:47,920 » Well, I was seeing that too. I don't think that's a good one. off. 2884 03:56:47,520 --> 03:56:51,680 » Yeah. >> But I think my thing is I always want to 2885 03:56:49,680 --> 03:56:54,080 just move it on and I think sometimes it's okay to step back and say, 2886 03:56:53,439 --> 03:56:57,840 » "Yeah, >> and I know we passed it with 22 before, 2887 03:56:56,319 --> 03:56:59,520 but I don't feel good about this one with 22." 2888 03:56:59,040 --> 03:57:03,319 » Yeah. >> Um things. 2889 03:57:03,680 --> 03:57:11,600 » Good job. >> Move to journ. 2890 03:57:07,840 --> 03:57:14,600 » I commissioner I 2891 03:57:16,319 --> 03:57:25,359 We should now. Okay. >> Yeah, I finished my report, but I'm kind 2892 03:57:22,239 --> 03:57:25,359 of like