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Okay, we're recording. Go ahead.
>> Welcome everyone. I'd like to call to

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order this Thursday, September 3rd, 2026
meeting of the Mass Planning and Zoting

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Commission. And um the first
item I'd like to do is add an add an

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item to the agenda.
So, we need to get a motion to add an

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agenda item. I'd like to discuss the
venue for the continuation of 26-29.

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Uh the that's the Mil Road application
and um because we I wanted to get a vote

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from the commission on that, we need to
add it as a special agenda item. So,

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could I have a motion?
>> Thank you.

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» Second, thanks. Everybody following me?
Okay. All in favor?

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» Jen, can you hear? Okay.
>> Okay. Great. Um, I thought we'd discuss

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it when we get down to 26-29 Mil Road.
Okay. So, with that out of the way, I'd

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like to go ahead and read the process
for public hearings because we have one

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public hearing this evening. Um,
during the

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» You're still here.
>> I'm going to do that when I get down

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here. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. During the
public hearing, the applicant will be

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invited to present the application
explaining to the commission and others

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present what is being requested. The
applicant or staff will share all

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application materials on the screen as
needed. Comments of town agencies will

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be read for each application if there
are any. Next, there will be clarifying

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questions from the commissioners. Then
there will be an opportunity for

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clarifying questions and comments from
the public attending in person and via

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Zoom. For Zoom attendance, please raise
your hand through the Zoom platform and

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wait to be called on and unmuted. As
this public hearing must be recorded,

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all attendees must state their names and
addresses before asking questions.

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Public questions and comments should be
concise and address issues related to

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the application. Questions and comments
from the public are to be directed to

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the applicant, not to the commission
when necessary for the sake of time and

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to give everyone a fair chance to speak.
They will be limited to 5 minutes or

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less. Public comments supporting
previous comments need not repeat those

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comments but can simply endorse them. We
ask that we we treat each other

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respectfully throughout the meeting.
Personal attacks on the applicants andor

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commissions commissioners will not be
tolerated. The applicant will have an

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opportunity to address any questions or
concerns raised by the commissioners and

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the public. Once the public hearing is
closed, the applicant is free to leave

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or remain for the balance of the regular
meeting during which the commission will

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try to reach a decision on each
application. Each applicant will be

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notified in writing as to the direct
decision of the commission and has a

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right to appeal to the superior court if
desired. Decisions of this m meeting are

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available the day after the meeting by
following the land use department at

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203245-55631
after 9:00 a.m. The recording of this

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meeting will be made available on the
town website for viewing. Seated this

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evening are Mike Fugda. Um Michelle
Clark, I would like to see you replace

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Jen G if that's okay.
>> Sure. Um,

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Vice Chair John Dooza
and Secretary John Morgan, Bob O' Conor,

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Janet Tekken via Zoom, and myself, Carol
Snow, chair. Staff present this evening

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is Aaron Manx, town planner, and the
planner read for legal notice.

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Notice is hereby given that the Madison
Planning and Zoning Commission will hold

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a public hearing on Thursday, September
3rd, 2026, beginning at 7 p.m. in

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meeting room A, the James Madison room,
Town Campus, 8 Campus Drive, Madison,

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Connecticut 06443.
This is a hybrid meeting and attendees

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may also join via Zoom webinar either
through the webinar link or call in

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information below. The webinar ID is
91581966735.

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The password is 452138
and the dialin number is 6465588656.

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The following application will be heard
number 26-32

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plus coastal site plan for 908 Boston
Post Road map 39 lot 4 zone R2. the

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owner applicant, uh, Nicholas and Nancy
Robert. Uh, again, this is a coastal

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site plan application. It's a site plan
modification in major downtown village

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district application to modify porch
railings, patio, and walkway for unit in

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a small cluster housing development.
Copies of this application are available

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for inspection in the land use office.
Further details on how to participate in

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the webinar posted on the town of
Madison website, www.mmadisonct.org.

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org. All written correspondence can be
submitted to the land use department via

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email to land usemisonct.org.
Dial 2032455631

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for assistance. Dated atmadison
Connecticut this 14th day of August

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2026. Carol Snow chair. This was
published once in the New Haven Register

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on August 20th and once in the source on
August 27th.

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» Thank you, Erin. Could I have a motion
then to open 26-32

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plus a coast site plan for 908 bus
second

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honor any further discussion on the day
that open the public hearing

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good to go.
>> Hi my name is Dickson. I'm the architect

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of general's residence development and
I'm the architect for this new owner of

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this this unit that wants to make some
minor modifications which you've seen I

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think but I'll go over them with you.
The one area which is uh visually uh

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present as with all of these but I think
would make a a difference was approved

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by the Madison Historical Commission,
Madison um Madison so Society, the

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Madison store commission and also
advisory council and community parents

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and accord approved by the homeowners
association of the unit. So four

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approvals so far this I think is the
last approval before the direction.

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The one area that the one area that is I
would say visually present is the

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putting in of a low fence which was
which was a railing which was on the

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original home and the historical
commission said they they thought they

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didn't really need to have it in the
fact that we raised up this earth. It's

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not required by code but they but the
homeowners would like to be able to sit

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up there and they they felt that they
need a little bit more of the barrier.

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So we simply make the barrier that was
there before putting back. Um at the at

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the front we have two walkways that come
that come out to the street and they are

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now just simply 2ft by 3 foot pieces of
blue stone with 6 in in between them.

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They'd like to make them into tiny
fashion patterned uh both both units

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tiny bashlar um walkways walk they're
done in sand with black and sand the

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rear which no one sees but is something
that's they change is that we actually

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have this raised deck that was done by
the first owner and these owners would

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like to have what everybody else has in
the entire place which between which

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between which these straw terraces which
are in the area that was designated

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as an intentional development for for
that area. So, we're dropping that down

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using the same stone walls. Then, the
sort of two enhancements are that I

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think about a project I worked on a
while ago, we may be able to we may be

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able to shroud utility uh boxes with
painted wood, which would be really

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nice. They could do it, but it's been
done somewhere else. So, I'm going to

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ask them to do that. They like to have a
two/3 light door, you know, which is

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sort of what they had before, but they
would like to have light come through

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versus a big door. There's a half
there's a there's a 3 foot6 in high wall

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at the back, which again, nobody sees.
They want to put plants on top of that.

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So, I think that's pretty much all the
things that go into

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» I would ask if you could like slide it
down this way and probably put it in

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front so Janet can see it.
>> Yeah,

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» because it's on the Janet, are you
seeing it on?

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» Oh, I can see it. I can see I can see it
on the screen.

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» Hi, Janet.
>> Yeah, thank you. Hi.

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» Is there any wood?
>> Yes. Yes, they made a break. The aka

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made it very clear. They want wood. And
I said, "Well, I hate to get the right

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wood. There's not a lot of good wood
paint anymore." So, they they were

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saying Newland's quite fine, but it'll
be wood. So, that's great.

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» And who do you need to get permission
from about the boxes for the electrical?

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Uh that would be the baed northeast
buildings.

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» Is that sweet?
>> Yeah. And it's uh a ring of hell. So

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there we go.
>> Where's the house?

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» It's not it's not as bad as conad. And
also I'm I'm being a pleasant knowing

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something somewhere. It's called like oh
up in Buffalo there's something called

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grid and apparently grid in Buffalo is
worse than anywhere on the planet. So,

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um, the hypothes

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Yeah.
>> Oh, this little guy. Yes.

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» No, no, I'm sorry. The stone the stone
stuff.

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» Yes. The the these the walkways.
>> Didn't we have a a height restriction?

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» This Well, these are at grade the these
two guys are are grade walkways.

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» Okay.
>> And then these and these guys here are

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basically city walls and match the other
city walls that are in the place

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» in height.
>> Yes.

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» Okay.
So they're like 18 inches too.

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» Any questions or comments? Thank you for
keeping the spirit of the general rest.

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» Are you kidding me?
We did measure of love. It's been a long

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and involved process.
>> Once he did my wedding

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every month he does what he does and
actually I love his daily ch.

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» Janet any questions or comments? I I had
I was having trouble hearing duo. So,

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but I think everything looked fine in
the drawing.

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» Yeah.
>> And I and I know that area so well that

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I I know what the wall is going to look
like and [clears throat] it'll be great.

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» I see it from where you're sitting.
>> I know, right? I can I can see it out my

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front window.
>> Yeah. [laughter]

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» Okay. Any other questions or comments?
>> Not.

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» In that case, could I have a motion to
close the public hearing? Oh, sorry.

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» Public
>> the public street public.

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» Thank you. Any questions or comments
from

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» Jim Nordin, 387 Boston Post Road, the uh
Belgian block interlocking, right?

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» Not Belgian block. The the these are
just blue stone flush pavers that

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» So, you're increasing the impervious
surface.

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» No, we're not. They're going to be set
in sand and they're exactly the same as

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» because there is still a storm water
runoff problem onto 174

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» and this will also be set in sand. This
will be set in sand.

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» Good.
>> That's actually mandated by aka

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» this one. AKA made that recommendation
>> and the storm water runoff issue. are

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rough that that would be a Stevens which
is maybe not Stevens anymore but that

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that that's an engineering issue that
they

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» set up and and I think the biggest thing
just not germanine to this project

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» but the reality is it is as Aaron said
it's it's a civil issue at this point

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where it is if the system fails to meet
engineering standards that's your

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recourse. Well, um
I was hoping you could somehow mitigate

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it's it's a it's a different issue.
There is still a storm water runoff

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issue. That's another thing to discuss
at some other time. Um my second point

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is it would be an opportune time now to
before you allow a modification to fix

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the invasive species problem.
>> Oh, where's that? You remember we talked

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about this for a couple years. I agree
it was a win-win and you said so too by

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um they actually have a deed restriction
filed with the land records that they're

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going to remove the invasive species on
the riparian buffer next to the fence. I

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00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:35,440
measured it. Aaron uh and I talked about
it. She wasn't quite sure how much of

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the land uh general's residence was
responsible for. It's about 15,000

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square ft. So it's almost half an acre
and it's been uh nearly 2 years since

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that uh requirement was made by you uh
in return for giving up that dreaded

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bench. Remember it gave up the
>> can I actually that uh invasive species

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thing was actually part of the original
discussions 5 years ago

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» right I know when no
with me and the idea was it would

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00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:12,240
actually um you know that that that was
part of well maybe not written but that

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was part of the understanding
>> right it is written now there's a deed

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restriction that you demanded because
it was unclear how committed they needed

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to be to remove all the invasive
species. And the point was to maintain

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the visual line of sight
>> for Fence Creek because you have a

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nonwater dependent
project and DEP wanted and that was

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public access to maintain the view. So
it's been almost two years. I go by it

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every day. It's gotten worse, not
better.

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Let me just finish on this. The
fragmmites now has invaded up into the

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native plant riparian buffer which is
almost non-existent.

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00:13:55,839 --> 00:14:04,720
» We now have mud wart in there and and we
also have Japanese nodweed and tree of

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heaven. Now to Aaron's credit, I spoke
with her last summer about this

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00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:16,240
and I also I also emailed her three
times this summer. So I know she's well

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00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:20,240
I know you're on top of it, Aaron. So,
it seems like a good opportunity to get

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the homeowners association to at least
work on what they are required by law to

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00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:31,360
do, which is remove invasive species in
perpetuity. I have the exact writing

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00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:38,240
from November 2024. How could you
forget? We spent six meetings on it. So,

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am I in fa speaking in favor of this?
I'm in favor of this application with

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conditions that you somehow get the
invasive removal project moving forward.

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And if it's not moving forward, Aaron,
go you've been out there. You haven't

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00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:57,120
been out there yet. You know, it is we
don't want to be you don't want to be

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00:14:54,720 --> 00:15:02,720
mean, but it's a violation. It's a
violation. It's been 2 years. So, it's a

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00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:09,920
good opportunity to
you hate to approve a change when

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00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:14,399
there's an outstanding issue. Right.
Now's a good time to talk about it and

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clear it up because it's been two years
and it's getting worse, not better.

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You ask your question because cuz I
drive by I live across the street,

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00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:27,680
right? So So I drive by there every day.
So So I had seen the um I'd seen

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fragmitees get big, but you're saying
all the other stuff's coming in, too.

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» Unfortunately, there was a nice strip of
native plants planted there. They're

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00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:40,000
almost overwhelmed now. It's getting
worse. Yeah,

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» they there was some brush hoging done I
think in winter last year. You can't

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00:15:42,079 --> 00:15:49,040
brush hot f mighty excuse me.
Additionally, I noticed today there are

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three new non-native evergreen trees
planted right there.

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I mean that must be a planting plan. I'm
surprised you somebody would put three

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non-native
trees

206
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:06,320
right there in
>> there was there was one long time ago.

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Yeah, but they they planted three trees
there recently when they did that little

208
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thing down there.
>> Yeah. So anyway, I'm not as concerned

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00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:18,320
about that, but the view is not there.
And the commitment to maintain invasive

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species removal, we make sure it was
written in perpetuity and that is is a D

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recorded with the M town of Madison land
records. So I don't want to be too

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00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:34,240
strict about it, but can we follow up on
that, please? Because they they agreed

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to do it.
Did you want to respond to me at all?

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00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:43,040
» No, I I'm no responsibility for that,
but I do know I do know the HOA a little

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00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:46,720
bit and the HOA is is I think has had a
change of leadership in the last year as

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00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:50,880
I understand it. And I think the idea
that maybe even if you just met with the

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00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:54,160
with them, they would they me actually
the planning zoning commission. It's

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00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:57,839
you're required by law to make sure
these conditions are met.

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00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:01,199
» Well, then I think I'm happy to meet as
a friend,

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» but it's your legal responsibility.
Would that be a zoning enforcement

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00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:10,400
officer issue?
>> Office has received a written complaint

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00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:15,039
from Jim and has been informed that our
zoning officer would investigate a

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complaint and from children.
>> Good.

224
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,400
» Independent.
>> I I hear I hear your point about

225
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:25,360
connecting the two, but it it's not
really related to this application

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00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:28,160
» except I don't I'm not I'm not a town
attorney. I don't think you can approve

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00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:32,080
something if there's an outstanding
issue.

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00:17:29,679 --> 00:17:39,280
There's an alleged
violation. There is no enforcement

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00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:43,440
action that is underway currently.
>> I mean, you've had I've notified you

230
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four times for this. You haven't gone
out there yet. I mean,

231
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:50,480
» I am not the inspector and
>> should be

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» should be a violation. Doesn't have to
be a mean violation, but someone's got

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00:17:52,480 --> 00:18:02,400
to tell the HOA, you said you do this
and you were bound to do it by law.

234
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:08,640
Okay, thanks. You're on the record here
for saying that. And um I think going

235
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:13,679
back to the application,
the non-native and the invasive species

236
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:19,760
aren't really impacting this portion of
the site for this application.

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00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:25,039
So I think um
did we

238
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:30,640
» Yeah, thank you. Um good evening Carol,
Missouri

239
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:36,080
Road. I also have a big opportunity duo
and work with him at the time that this

240
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:43,280
general's residence was underway. One of
the things that also is related to this

241
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:52,320
whole issue of how things get built and
as well as how they how the PNC improved

242
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:58,160
it was that there buffer to prevent the
housing from just the the built

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00:18:55,280 --> 00:19:04,880
environment affecting the uh the
creeping. And that also was uh written

244
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:09,440
out in a letter by John Cunningham. It
was part of the au buffalo placed and

245
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,400
I'm sure Done remembers that.
>> Oh yeah.

246
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,520
» Um
>> and actually my memory is this person my

247
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:19,440
memory was they did do some of that
native planting in the first year. They

248
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:23,280
did actually do a whole bunch of native
plant the first year and I think what I

249
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:27,600
now showing this I think the invasive
stuff is done when invasive stuff does

250
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:31,039
which is it takes over the non-invasive
stuff. Well, I I think you're right and

251
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,880
that's why I'm raising it because it's
just related and I think you should just

252
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:39,200
know the whole story that our
expectation and what Cunningham

253
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:43,280
outlined, right? And I think we're in
drawings as I recall that there would be

254
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:45,760
native trees and shrubs.
>> That was in Steven's drawings. But yes,

255
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:47,200
it was in there.
>> Steven's drawings.

256
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,919
» And it was in there.
>> And it was in there that there would be

257
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:57,120
native plantings so that those of us
that look at the general residence halls

258
00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:02,320
every day don't see all the light of the
built environment. And many of us feel

259
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:07,360
as though
etc. So I think there's a lot of

260
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:13,280
literature to support the idea that the
natural environment is important for the

261
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:18,000
creek and as a consequence of that I
think that what has to also be taken

262
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:25,039
into consideration is this issue of what
was originally approved by the community

263
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:30,320
and again I had sent this letter to Erin
about a month ago I know she's very busy

264
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:34,880
but it's also tied into this whole
notion of we're just building and going

265
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:39,280
further, but we're not dealing with the
fundamentals. And fundamentals are

266
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:43,200
really important to those of us that
live right across the creek and that we

267
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:47,200
see it every day.
>> A question.

268
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:52,320
» Um, I hear you and I understand your
your concerns. I'm trying to understand

269
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:56,720
where our scope is involved here so that
we can make an appropriate determination

270
00:20:54,080 --> 00:21:03,520
and consider the request accordingly.
What I'm hearing is that the owners of

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00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,919
this particular condominium unit are
asking for some improvements.

272
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:09,760
» That's all.
>> So there's the ownership of the

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00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,679
individual condominium asking for
improvements to their property.

274
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:17,679
» That's correct.
>> Which is in fact a part of a condominium

275
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:24,480
association
which then has obligations

276
00:21:21,679 --> 00:21:30,559
to in fact uphold the development of the
payment. So I the way I'm hearing it is

277
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:34,559
there's there's two separate issues at
hand here. And while I understand your

278
00:21:32,159 --> 00:21:38,799
concerns, I don't I don't know how we as
a planning and zoning would tie those

279
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:46,400
two things together. And I don't know
that that the lack of action on one part

280
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,679
would have an impact on the relative
action of the other

281
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:54,080
» one on one owner
>> or the enforcement of the conditions

282
00:21:51,360 --> 00:22:00,559
that were set. Right? So obviously
>> don't impact this application

283
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:04,720
» and we're not enforcers,
>> but that's why public hearings.

284
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,120
» Exactly. It's our only chance to say it.
I can send emails to people all day

285
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,919
long.
>> Yeah.

286
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,600
» A public hearing. It's a marriage.
>> Trust me.

287
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:18,480
» Yeah. Yeah. No, I think I think that's
well said and agreed and I don't think

288
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:22,400
you're hearing a real objection to an
audience per se. I think what you're

289
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:28,720
hearing is concern that there's a
poorest environment there that that were

290
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:33,919
outlined because part of PNZ original
approval was that all of the driveways

291
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,080
and all would be forest material. It's
all black asphalt,

292
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:43,280
» but that wasn't final application
>> that but but that came after it wasn't

293
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,799
in the final. the final navigation did
did actually have all the asphalt and

294
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:51,280
what they did was they calculated all
the runoff from that in their design of

295
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:55,280
the groundwater system. So that changed
the capacity of the groundwater system

296
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:58,799
to be larger than it was with the with
Billy's thing which was which was just

297
00:22:57,039 --> 00:23:02,880
gravel and so that made it more
expensive and then the question is is

298
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:06,640
the design effective or not and that's
the next level. So

299
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:10,320
» I I remember it slightly differently and
we can work it out together at some

300
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,159
point. But the larger point is I think
you understand quite well the

301
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:19,679
frustration with seeing the environment
really change. Not really thinking that

302
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:22,720
the owners are at fault necessarily for
all these things because I don't think

303
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,280
they knew.
>> That's correct.

304
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:29,520
» And I didn't think I don't think they
knew what was agreed to. And I don't

305
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,679
think we heard that. We heard that.
>> Yeah. No, that's actually true. I' I've

306
00:23:31,919 --> 00:23:36,080
had to deal with all these units.
>> Yeah.

307
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:40,000
» And I've had to inform people with all
of them and

308
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:44,880
» they're just gaps in information and I
try to do my best.

309
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,640
» As a matter of fact, when Mad for Trees,
which is such a great organization

310
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:53,919
trying to plant trees and native trees
in in um in Madison, I suggested to a

311
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:58,720
friend that he asked them if they would
like to have some native trees that they

312
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:03,520
could plant as butter. And um they
responded in saying they're not allowed

313
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:08,480
to to plant them along the Fence Creek,
which is not correct at all. In fact,

314
00:24:06,159 --> 00:24:14,640
there were trees there that died because
the roots had been uh removed when they

315
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:17,760
dug down to actually just let me finish.
>> I just want to correct you. They weren't

316
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:22,640
done. The construction didn't damage
them. They all had the the maple plate.

317
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:26,559
» Okay. Well, in any event, we can agree
to disagree, but never mind. The point

318
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:32,320
is, but there's a larger point here, and
that is that I think the folks that live

319
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:38,080
there don't understand that of course
they can plant a buffer there. What they

320
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:43,600
can't do is obscure the view from Boston
Post Road to the Fence Creek, which is

321
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:48,960
Jim's concern that now these these
natives as well as the fragies have

322
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:53,600
grown too high. But but my point is in
support of a larger view of the

323
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,400
environment which is simply that the
agreement was that there could be a

324
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:01,679
buffer
>> for the birds for the other animals and

325
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:06,400
so that we don't see this intense light
every night across

326
00:25:03,679 --> 00:25:11,440
» and it's it's just really changing the
environment. So that's that's really

327
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:15,840
what it's about. I I'm so glad Dud's
here listening to this too and hopefully

328
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:20,640
carried back a very positive message
that that we don't or I'll speak for

329
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:24,159
myself. I don't think these homeowners
are ignoring things as much as just not

330
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,000
knowing.
>> Well, speaking as a neighbor, I didn't

331
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,760
quite get what you said and I have no
doubt it's true. I I did I got the fact

332
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,120
that the fragmentes came back in because
I got fragmentes on my salt wash.

333
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,559
They're there all the time. I didn't
know that all that other crap was coming

334
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,960
back into obviously.
>> It's significant. Yeah. Well, that's

335
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:45,600
» the last point is on the plan of
conservation development

336
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:51,520
» interest,
>> right? The PCD that recently approved uh

337
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:56,080
one of the goals is to
uh

338
00:25:53,520 --> 00:26:01,120
protect and restore title wetlands. You
were big on that one. So, this kind of

339
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:07,039
fits right into a goal that you all set
for yourself. Yeah. To restore and

340
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:12,559
protect the title wetlands. Remember, it
wasn't that long ago. We appreciate

341
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:18,000
hearing from you. Um, it's on the
record. It's an enforcement issue, not

342
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:22,240
us approving a specific application, but
we hear you.

343
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:27,039
» Thank you. Maybe do encourage the
homeowners to listen to the testimony

344
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:31,600
tonight because that that might
>> I agree, but I also think to be honest

345
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:35,600
really would be good maybe to even get
John will do this do a sitewalk with

346
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,880
John Cunningham out there just out there
and look at those invasives and look

347
00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:41,919
» I assume there's a plan
>> there is there must have been invasive

348
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,360
removal plan
>> there is there is and and and it would

349
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,400
be good to get John out there and say
hey if you guys want to do this it

350
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:51,279
involves that and I'm sure that that
because it involves their spending money

351
00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:53,440
to do that. No, but they'd have to do
that. I know,

352
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,080
» but they don't know what they have to
do, right? That's what I'm saying. I

353
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:58,960
think John would be a better person to
get there.

354
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:02,799
» Yeah, John would be a way to connect the
problem with the solution. So, I'll I'll

355
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,799
try to talk to send a note to John and
say, "Hey, can you just go out there and

356
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,559
meet with these guys?"
>> That's nice, but it's also up to the

357
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,200
zoning enforcement officer.
>> Yes, agree.

358
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:15,520
» What are the What are the consequences
for an infraction of a zoning

359
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:20,720
regulation? When our office receives a
complaint, my zoning officer will go out

360
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:23,679
and investigate that. The way that is
prioritized is based on workload.

361
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,919
» Understood.
>> So if if a violation is found, what are

362
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:32,559
the consequences?
>> It depends what it is. I mean, sometimes

363
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:39,679
you can start with a phone call to
someone and communicate with them of

364
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:43,679
what is going on. Um, you know, I I
>> Well, you're allowed to leverage daily

365
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,080
fines. I mean, you're not going to do
that in this case, but you're going to

366
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,520
you can
>> typically the land use office doesn't

367
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:55,200
start
>> with citations when you receive a

368
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:57,279
complaint or usually the least
>> uh

369
00:27:55,679 --> 00:28:00,559
» that that's that's what I was asking and
and maybe you could carry

370
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:04,640
» trying to work with property owners
>> needs to be more mindful of what the

371
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:11,120
regulations are. a complaint has been
filed, there could be repercussions if

372
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:15,814
they are found to be in violation of
their obligations.

373
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:19,399
» Later stages may involve flocking
[laughter]

374
00:28:16,399 --> 00:28:19,399
» publicly,

375
00:28:19,679 --> 00:28:26,240
but I I but I do actually think that
your desire is their desire. I just

376
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:31,679
don't know if they know how to do it
because I know these people and they and

377
00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:36,240
they like me they they hate the problem
is removing invasives is very expensive

378
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:40,720
and time consuming and it can take 10
years and you need an expert to do it.

379
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:44,000
So I'm surprised they agreed to do it
but they wanted to get rid of that

380
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:48,640
dreadful bench that they agreed to do it
and it's expensive and you have to be on

381
00:28:45,919 --> 00:28:53,520
top of it for 10 years
>> and I'm happy to talk to them about

382
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:58,640
I'll I'll try to connect you guys. I
mean, I know you're talking so much

383
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:03,600
better than the rest. It's not like
>> Yeah,

384
00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:10,240
it's not very we don't have Sorry,
Carol, but the applicant is a good key

385
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:13,840
person here. Nice conduitation.
>> Sadly, I've got a I've got a target on

386
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,559
my back. [laughter]
>> All right. Um,

387
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,440
» any other questions or comments? Any
other remote?

388
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:26,240
» I'm looking remote. I don't see any
hands up. Do you Erin?

389
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:32,159
No. [laughter]
>> Right. Any other questions you have? No.

390
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:35,760
Based on what we've heard so far.
>> In that case, did I have a motion to

391
00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:38,480
close the public hearing and move to
deliberations?

392
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,720
» Second.
>> No, sir.

393
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:48,480
» In favor.
>> Okay. Thanks.

394
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:54,200
» Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you.
>> I sent this to you based on what they

395
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,600
» call

396
00:30:13,919 --> 00:30:17,399
it sounds like

397
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,679
enforcement officing

398
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,080
they filed due process will ensue.
>> Yes.

399
00:30:37,679 --> 00:30:40,320
» Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah.

400
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:44,440
» And it's not related to this
application.

401
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,440
» Has no bearing onification.

402
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,760
» The elimination. All right. Um
>> motion to approve.

403
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:53,679
» Yeah. Second to approve.
>> Second.

404
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:58,240
Any further discussion?
I think we have a draft.

405
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,200
Aaron
want me to make

406
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,159
you.
>> Would you like to?

407
00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:05,159
» I

408
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:12,559
following draft resolutions offered.
Madison planning and zoning commission

409
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:18,880
approves application 26-32 plus coastal
site plan 908 Boston post road 39 lot 4

410
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:23,440
zone R2 owner applicants Nicholas J and
Nancy J Robert postal site plan

411
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:28,799
application site planation and major
downtown village district

412
00:31:25,679 --> 00:31:33,520
modify railway patio walkway per unit
small cluster housing development

413
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:40,720
architectural plan titled Robert 908
Boston room as nin 063

414
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:45,679
G SK dated 720 2020 26 by Dickens
architect. The site plan entitled

415
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:49,159
Blogber 908 Boston Post Road, Madison,
Connecticut 06443.

416
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:56,399
Site plan sheet SK prepared by DOT
architect the following conditions. One,

417
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,399
that the zoning enforcement officer be
notified at least 48 hours prior to

418
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,600
commencement of any regulating activity.
Two, that any necessary erosion and

419
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,960
sedimentation controls be installed
prior to any site disturbance and be

420
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,000
maintained in duration of construction
activities and until the site is

421
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,840
sufficiently stabilized to the
satisfaction of the zoning enforcement

422
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:17,120
officer. In the event that changes to
the improvement plans are required as a

423
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:21,200
result of other agency permitting to
support the proposed activity planning

424
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:25,279
and zoning commission resource right to
review set changes and may require

425
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:28,320
modification of this. The commission
finds that with the above reference

426
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:32,240
conditions, the proposal is consistent
with all applicable rules and policies

427
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:36,720
of the coastal management act section 15
of the mass zoning regulations. No

428
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:41,840
anticipated impacts to coastal resources
are expected. The effective date of this

429
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:44,840
approval is September 17th, 2026. Any
commission?

430
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:53,679
» Any further discussions?
All in favor to approve

431
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:58,799
unanimous. Thank you everyone.
All right, we have a pending application

432
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:02,480
for 26-15 plus a coastal site plan. This
is Garnet Park Road under applicant the

433
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,480
town of Madison. Applications are
coastal site plan review for the

434
00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:10,760
replacement of Garn Garnet Park Road
bridge over Bailey Creek

435
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:19,120
representative to present. Kim Fletcher
from Barton and Lois, the engineering

436
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,559
firm uh from the town is here to
present. Kim, did you have anyone else

437
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:25,360
on your team that I needed to promote
over?

438
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,600
» Uh, I don't think so. I think it's just
me.

439
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:32,480
» Okay. Thanks. And will you be screen
sharing or do you need me to pull up

440
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:38,080
your presentation?
>> Um, is it okay if I share it?

441
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:41,080
» Yeah, sure.
Let's

442
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:54,200
see if I if I can figure out technology.

443
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:01,399
» We all
>> Yeah. All right. Let me

444
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:12,000
Are you seeing that clearly where from
where you're sitting?

445
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:16,000
» Okay.
All right. Um so thank you very much for

446
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:21,520
having me here. Uh my name is Kim
Fletcher. I'm from Barton and Legudas

447
00:34:18,879 --> 00:34:26,399
and I've been working um with the town
of Madison uh specifically with Rob

448
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:34,320
Russo on this project for the last few
years. Um, so, uh, this is Garnet Park

449
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:39,703
over Bailey Creek in Madison, of course.
Um, let's please.

450
00:34:37,683 --> 00:34:39,703
[clears throat]

451
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,599
Come on. Hold on.

452
00:34:56,159 --> 00:35:02,800
Oh, there we go. Okay. Um, so, uh, this
is just a picture, quick picture of

453
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:08,079
where we're, uh, what we're talking
about. This is the existing bridge. It's

454
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:13,040
two pipes. I'm going to get a little bit
more into that in a second here. Um, I

455
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:20,079
just want to show you where it's located
first. Um, so it's on Garnet Park, uh, a

456
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:24,880
little bit, um, near Governor's Way, but
this whole section of, uh, roadway, you

457
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:31,599
can't tell based on this, but this is
all, um, a oneway in and out. So, it's a

458
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:35,520
dead end. Uh, so this bridge is serving
that entire community. Um, and so if

459
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:40,560
this bridge fails, then you're
essentially trapping these people um, in

460
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:46,079
their neighborhoods.
This is a aerial of the same. And this

461
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:50,640
is just showing um what we're here to
talk about which is the coastal res

462
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:55,640
resiliency and the coastal plan. And
these are all the title wetlands that

463
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,640
are in this area.

464
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,079
Oh man.

465
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:15,440
There you go.
>> There we go. All right. I think I

466
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:21,680
finally figured it out. Um, so like I
said, the um existing is a 48 inch and a

467
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:28,320
60 in um corrugated metal pipe with
concrete wing walls and head walls. Um,

468
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:33,839
it was built in the 1960s
and uh, as I said, it it carries uh,

469
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:39,520
Garnet Park over Bailey Creek. It's
tightly influenced.

470
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:45,560
Um, it's currently 47 feet long from end
of pipe to end of pipe with a skew of 20

471
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,560
degrees.

472
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:53,440
And this is a picture of the inside of
the pipe. So, um, we crawled through it

473
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:57,200
and and we continue to crawl through it
uh, every year or so just to make sure

474
00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:01,920
that it's not changing um, while we're
going through the design and permitting

475
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:08,400
process. But the the pipe has failed and
we're seeing some roadway fill um coming

476
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:14,880
through. Uh luckily a lot of that fill
is um a stone-like material, so it's not

477
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:20,800
it's not freely flowing out from over
the pipe. Um but it is a concern again,

478
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:26,280
especially with this being um the only
bridge that's carrying traffic in and

479
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,280
out of this neighborhood.

480
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:34,240
This is looking at it from the top. Um,
looking north over the bridge and then

481
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:38,640
looking south. The pavement is in uh
really good shape. So, we don't see any

482
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:43,040
movement of the actual pavement which
tells us that um the structure is stable

483
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:48,160
right now. So, we're not seeing any
movement of that pipe. Um although it's

484
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:53,359
failed, we don't see any continuous
movement which is good. Um it is an

485
00:37:50,960 --> 00:38:01,880
existing buminous overlay and the
roadway width is uh 19 and a half and

486
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,880
has approximately 600 cars a day.

487
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:10,160
So the existing hydraulics and the
existing conditions as you can see

488
00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:17,119
there's a lot of um there's a lot of
tidal wetlands on either side of the

489
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:24,640
bridge. Um there's a drainage area of uh
0.55 square miles and it has an existing

490
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:29,599
freeboard um of 2.32 and that's using
the 50-year riverine storm with a

491
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:34,839
one-year title surge. Um it has a
100redyear discharge of 130 cfs.

492
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:46,079
Uh so I' I've put the regulatory limits
on the top right there. So we have the

493
00:38:43,359 --> 00:38:51,440
high tide line at 2.65 and the coastal
jurisdictional line at 3.7 and mean high

494
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:55,760
water at 2.23.
Um and that will come into play in a

495
00:38:53,680 --> 00:39:01,200
couple slides. But um just a little bit
more. So, we had uh wetland scientists

496
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:06,400
come out and mark out all the flags and
uh give us a report of what we're

497
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:12,800
looking at for species and plant type.
Um most of the plants I can't pronounce,

498
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:19,839
but I have listed them there. um
wildlife uh you know the heron uh

499
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:26,720
muskrats, raccoons, crabs um and we've
gone through the IPAC and NDB process to

500
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:32,079
ensure that we have no effect or we're
making sure that we're doing our work

501
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:37,320
within the right um timelines to
minimize any impacts to these species.

502
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:51,200
So how are we going to fix it? So we
have um proposed a 15 by7 box coververt

503
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:57,200
um with one foot of stream bed embedment
and we've sized it for again the 50-year

504
00:39:54,560 --> 00:40:01,760
riverine flood with a one-year title and
the Army Corps and deep regulation

505
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:07,040
requires a 1 foot of freeboard um but
when we took a look at the Madison

506
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:12,160
coastal resiliency plan that recommended
24 in of freeboard and so we designed to

507
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:18,880
ensure sure that we were meeting that 24
in freeboard.

508
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:23,359
Um and and also here uh so I had
mentioned that the pipes were around 47

509
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:30,240
ft long. Um we've shortened the
structure to um uh 28 ft uh

510
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:35,520
perpendicular. And so the wing walls are
going to run um parallel to the road.

511
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:40,160
And there'll be bridge rail right on the
um on the shoulder of the road to get as

512
00:40:37,839 --> 00:40:44,680
much of that structure um out of the
water course and the wetlands that we

513
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,680
could.

514
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:57,119
So here's looking at just the the covert
section and then the culvert elevation.

515
00:40:53,040 --> 00:41:01,839
Um as I said it's a a 15t span. It's got
a slight skew. So you see the clear span

516
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:06,640
there and it says 15 and some change but
that's just because you're you're

517
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:12,560
looking at it on a skew. Um
and

518
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:18,480
uh additionally we which I'm not showing
here but we're going to have an

519
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:23,680
additional um mud mat under under the
bottom slab of one foot of uh concrete.

520
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:29,440
And that's to ensure that we don't uh
introduce any kind of scour concern. Um,

521
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:34,240
traditionally box you don't look at
scour um just because the nature of what

522
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:40,160
the structure is, but we just with it
being a title uh area, we just wanted to

523
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:46,000
ensure that, you know, we had adequate
um scour protection for the future. Uh

524
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:51,359
and additionally, we also sized this box
covert structurally so that we could in

525
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:55,680
the future raise the road almost 2 feet
and we wouldn't need to redesign the

526
00:41:53,119 --> 00:42:00,960
box. It could take the extra weight um
of the roadway if in the future we need

527
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:06,040
to raise the road just due to increased
storms and overt topping and things like

528
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,040
that.

529
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:15,760
» Um so just to summarize it's it's a
little easier to see because of this one

530
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:20,720
uh with the colors is the orange is the
uh box cover and the wing walls. The

531
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:24,880
yellow is the roadway reconstruction.
Um, so we try to limit the roadway

532
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:29,520
reconstruction to just what is necessary
to tie it back in. Um, and with the

533
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:37,839
existing roadway being like 19 and a
half and us um, extending this to a 24

534
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:41,440
foot roadway to meet design um,
requirement or I'm sorry, it's 22 foot

535
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:46,960
roadway with shoulders on either side.
So that's why it shows 24 on that

536
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:52,800
drawing, but it's um 22 feet for um
driving purposes. And that is um due to

537
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:56,680
design requirements through Connecticut
um DOT and AASHTO.

538
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:06,319
Um and I'm I'm going to explain the
water handling because it it has a lot

539
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:13,119
to do with the impacts. Um again because
this area is uh one way in and out, we

540
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:17,920
have no option other than to stage
construction so that we can maintain at

541
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:26,079
least alternating one-way traffic in and
out. Um so that did add a little bit to

542
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:32,319
our temporary impacts. Um, so during
stage one, we'll be removing half of the

543
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:38,319
pipe and installing uh installing the
box section there while we uh shift

544
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:43,200
traffic to the west and allow um
alternating one way. Once we have that

545
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:47,599
first portion of box in, we'll switch
and that's what stage two is. And we'll

546
00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:54,079
allow traffic alternating one way on
that um eastern side while we build the

547
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:58,720
western portion of it. And then for our
third um that would just be installing

548
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:02,720
that last piece of guide rail that we
couldn't get to um because the coffer

549
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:08,905
dam and and things were in the way
during the stage one and two.

550
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:08,905
» This should be my question. [laughter]

551
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:21,280
» So now how are we going to protect
everything? Um so we've had um an inter

552
00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:27,839
agency meeting with Army Corps and DEP
um and we have reviewed the project with

553
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:34,640
them um over the course of the last two
years um and we've come to a plan that I

554
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:41,280
think everybody has um that everybody
feels comfortable with. So it's three

555
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:47,599
three kind of boxes. So, we're trying to
avoid um as much impact as we possibly

556
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:55,200
can. Um we're maintaining all of our
inundation limits. So, what gets wet now

557
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:58,800
during these um changing tides will
still get wet after the new box. So,

558
00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:03,280
we're not going to be drying up any
wetlands.

559
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:10,720
um we're maintaining the same um
drainage patterns uh that are existing

560
00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:16,079
now and uh avoiding any future uh title
wetland impacts where feasible. Um where

561
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:20,400
we can't help it, we're trying to
minimize it. So there are limited

562
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:26,319
wetland and water course disturbances
associated again with the um temporary

563
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:33,200
condition where we're doing construction
and we'll be installing sheeting which

564
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:37,119
will temporarily impact um the wetlands.
Uh but we we tried to limit that

565
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:43,680
construction footprint as much as we
could while maintaining traffic. Um and

566
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:48,400
then also provide
um additional freeboard where we could

567
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:54,319
to help with any sort of future flooding
events. And then lastly, where we we we

568
00:45:52,000 --> 00:46:01,200
couldn't prevent any, we are going to
mitigate. And so ultimately we end up

569
00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:06,640
with approximately 185 square ft of
permanent impacts. And um when we spoke

570
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:13,119
with deep they thought that this would
be a good location for plant trans uh

571
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:20,560
title plant transllocation.
Um and so we have hired um Davidson

572
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:25,119
Environmental and he is um he's putting
together the final package for the

573
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:29,040
transllocation plan. Um and that will
include a minimum of three years of

574
00:46:27,359 --> 00:46:36,160
monitoring to ensure that it's
established. Um I I think and then after

575
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:42,079
that the contract shows just a like a an
hourly rate. So if at 3 years it hasn't

576
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:49,800
established, he'll continue monitoring
um and giving recommendations

577
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,800
until we have a reestablished wetland.

578
00:46:53,359 --> 00:47:03,760
Um and so this one kind of lays out what
those impacts are. Um so we have a total

579
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:11,200
wetland wetland impact of 535 square ft.
360 of that is the temporary wetland

580
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:19,400
impact. Um, which is from either
removing the existing pipes, uh, work

581
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:19,400
within the coffer dam. Um,

582
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:26,160
yeah, pulling and installing and
removing sheet piling, removing the

583
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:30,480
existing structure because we have to
extend the sheet piling out a little

584
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:35,040
further than the extents of our new
structure because we have to get the old

585
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:43,440
one out. Um, and then from a permanent
wetland impact, we have about 175 square

586
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:47,680
feet. Sorry, I said 185 175. Um, but
we're cutting that down to below mean

587
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:52,720
high water. So, the areas that were
having permanent wetland impacts, we are

588
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:58,079
creating a water course and then we're
still going to do a onetoone mitigation

589
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:01,880
with the transllocation to reestablish
that wetland area.

590
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:11,119
Um, from a water course uh standpoint,
we have uh 1,070 square feet and that's

591
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:17,040
all temporary. We don't have any
permanent wetland impact or water course

592
00:48:13,359 --> 00:48:22,800
impact. Um, it's all temporary during
construction and we're actually creating

593
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:26,480
um water course because the areas where
you used to have a pipe and fill between

594
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:31,599
those pipes, that's all going to be
water course now.

595
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:37,559
Um and there's no vegetated shallows
within the project limits our um wetland

596
00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:37,559
scientist

597
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:47,119
um
described. So uh this is kind of what I

598
00:48:43,839 --> 00:48:52,240
just said. We're create uh
we're creating eight uh we're creating

599
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:57,119
835 square feet of wetland water course
from the existing upland review area. So

600
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:03,280
that again is because we're bringing the
bridge in to um in closer to the

601
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:10,400
roadway. So instead of it extending out
that uh 47 ft and now we're only at 26,

602
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:15,359
there's an area that was um either pipe
or roadway fill that now is going to be

603
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:18,559
water course. Um the areas of the
current wetlands that is going to be

604
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:25,359
dropped below the mean high water that
will be water course. Um

605
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:32,400
and sorry I think I'm repeating myself
but yes. Okay. And then hydraulic and

606
00:49:29,359 --> 00:49:37,040
flood plane. Um this is the FEMA flood
map. Um we are not filling within the

607
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:40,040
flood plane. It's a minor cut in the
area.

608
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:49,680
Here's the um hydraulic information. So
um obviously the same drainage area.

609
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:56,480
We'll have the same flow rate. The
velocities are very slow 38. Um just the

610
00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:01,359
tide coming in and the tide going out.
Uh the water surface elevation between

611
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:07,200
the existing and the proposed um is
remaining the same. Um and we're meeting

612
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:12,200
the freeboard requirement of that 24 in
with some uh some buffer there.

613
00:50:16,319 --> 00:50:23,280
Um, so this is just kind of a snapshot
of all the environmental and species

614
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:27,920
considerations that we looked at. We ran
through all of the requirements of the

615
00:50:25,359 --> 00:50:32,559
Army Corps and deep um permits to ensure
that we're not negatively impacting any

616
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:36,559
of the species uh whether it be federal
or state um and ensuring that we're

617
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:44,240
working with all the time of year
restrictions in order to um minimize any

618
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:44,240
impacts to those um to those species.

619
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:53,440
And um so this again I I kind of already
went over this but it's going to be one

620
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:58,640
to one. Um the the way it'll work is
that Davidson right now he is um

621
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:05,440
currently determining which plants that
he feels have the um basically the best

622
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:11,119
chance of a transllocation
um being successful. uh and he's

623
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:17,119
providing to us a set of plans that
we'll include in our um bid package

624
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:22,720
which outlines to the contractor that
this transllocation has to happen prior

625
00:51:19,839 --> 00:51:26,800
to construction. So that way um these
plants are not impacted by the

626
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:32,000
construction that's happening around
them. Um and that will be handled both

627
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:36,720
with uh plans and also special
provisions that will be included in the

628
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:40,800
in the package. Um and and again, he'll
be monitoring this for at least three

629
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:44,880
years to ensure that um these plants
live and are thriving. And if they're

630
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:53,839
not, that he would make recommendations
in in what to do next. and and within

631
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:58,640
that within the plans um if if the
plants die so like if he monitors them

632
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:04,160
for two years let's say and then he goes
back and he's like these wetland plants

633
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:10,319
that we have um that we transllocated
didn't live at that point that 175 that

634
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:15,920
we're doing a onetoone
um uh mitigation for would then become a

635
00:52:13,359 --> 00:52:24,160
3 to one. So at that point we would be
mitigating um by planting new wetland

636
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:29,359
um somewhere else to to um account for
that loss of wetlands

637
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:32,400
» to remedy situation.
>> I'm sorry

638
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:35,800
» to remedy the situation.
>> Yes, exactly.

639
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:44,079
Um and so tonight, um I wanted to talk
through with you, you know, our coastal

640
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:48,559
site plan, um for any of the questions
or comments that you have. Um

641
00:52:46,319 --> 00:52:52,880
additionally, we'll be um seeking
approvals through local flood

642
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:57,599
management. Um we already have our
permit um in process with Army Corps and

643
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:03,040
Deep and we've had continued
conversations with them. um this piece,

644
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:09,200
this transllocation piece was the last
piece of it. And so they're continuing

645
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:13,920
to review um and we uh will be providing
them with Davidson's report once we

646
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:20,720
receive it. Um and then they'll be able
to um uh finalize that review. But um

647
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:27,520
from all of our conversations, that was
that was the last piece to the puzzle.

648
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:33,359
Um and then just quickly, so the project
schedule, uh we hope to put this out to

649
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:36,640
bid by the end of this year. Um that
that pipe is in bad shape. It's really

650
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:44,160
important that we get this thing
replaced so that we make sure that we

651
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:48,240
have um adequate um roadway for those uh
people that live in that neighborhood.

652
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:53,599
Um we are getting funding through the
state local bridge program. Uh, so they

653
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:59,200
pay 50% of engineering, construction,
and inspection. Um, and so, you know,

654
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:06,480
the the state reviews all plans and
specs prior to going out to bid as well.

655
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:11,520
Um, and so everything that we just kind
of talked about is listed here. Um, but

656
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:16,000
I'm happy to answer any questions or
anything that I've missed. Um, thank you

657
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:22,559
very much for for allowing me to come
and talk with you guys.

658
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:26,880
» Thank you, Kim. Thanks, Kim. Um, anyone
have questions since that's me?

659
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:33,839
» I have a silly one. Um, how was the
failing culbert first discovered?

660
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:39,200
» Um, so a lot we get hired a lot to look
at, um, bridges that are under 20 ft

661
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:44,079
because anything over 20 feet is
inspected by the state every two years,

662
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:48,480
but towns are responsible for inspecting
bridges under 20 feet. Um and so when we

663
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:54,599
were looking at some of the other
structures in town, um that one was

664
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:54,599
flagged.

665
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:00,720
» Good.
>> Kim, um I saw that fragmitees was listed

666
00:54:58,319 --> 00:55:05,520
on your list of species plant species in
the area. So will you be able to get rid

667
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:09,599
of that? I mean, are you could that be a
goal is to get rid of some of the

668
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:12,480
invasives while you're
>> Yes, thank you for mentioning that. I

669
00:55:11,119 --> 00:55:18,800
wrote that down and then I didn't say
it. Um, uh, part of the spec package is

670
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:22,800
that we are removing any of the invasive
species in the area as well.

671
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:27,280
» Great. Good. Super.
>> And then I had a question about the new

672
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:33,333
um,
culvert that you're putting in, how far

673
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:35,440
down into the muck do you have to go?
[laughter]

674
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:39,440
» Um, so [clears throat] for the like
permit requirements, you have to go at

675
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:43,680
least one foot. So, we're gonna we're
gonna place the bottom of the culvert on

676
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:47,599
top of what we call a mud mat because
the soils there are basically muck. And

677
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:52,319
so, we're going to be removing about two
feet of that muck and then back filling

678
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:57,599
with like a like a granular material to
place the the box cover on top of so

679
00:55:55,119 --> 00:56:01,520
that it doesn't um so it has good
bearing area.

680
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:06,079
» And I saw that you had hermit crabs and
blue crabs listed. Are there muscles and

681
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:11,440
oysters in there at all or are we too
far up river? Maybe

682
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:20,720
» they uh they were not listed within um
any of the research we did or the um

683
00:56:17,359 --> 00:56:24,720
biologists that we uh hired.
>> Okay. Yeah, they would they would have

684
00:56:22,319 --> 00:56:29,799
listed I think if they saw them. Thanks.
Thank you.

685
00:56:26,319 --> 00:56:29,799
» Any other questions?

686
00:56:30,319 --> 00:56:35,359
What is floorboard
mentioned?

687
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:40,319
» Floorboard. Yep. Freeboard. Oh, sorry.
Freeboard. freeboard.

688
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:45,920
» Oh, freeboard. Um, that is for uh it's
from your water surface elevation for

689
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:50,720
your storm that you're designing for to
the roadway surface.

690
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,720
» Oh, is it two feet?
>> Yes.

691
00:56:54,160 --> 00:57:02,079
» Can we kayak through it at low tide?
[laughter]

692
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:06,160
» You might be able to.
>> I can't I grew up in the on that salt

693
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,799
mar so I couldn't resist. I know it
really quick. It's like the branch that

694
00:57:07,599 --> 00:57:10,960
goes out the neck river. That's
>> right.

695
00:57:09,119 --> 00:57:16,319
» Yeah, you must know it, too.
>> Um Okay. Thanks. Thanks for the all this

696
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:21,200
information.
>> Yeah, I think the town has had um three

697
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:26,079
bridge replacements over the last few
years and um all of them have gone

698
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:32,640
through inland wetlands um but none of
those have been within a coastal zone.

699
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:38,960
So um now you have gotten a a full
project description and and land

700
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:44,079
» and you get to work with process deep do
I mean all these sort of levels of of

701
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:48,160
governance and agencies
>> and and typically in situations like

702
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:55,119
that where there's federal and state
permitting the the local takes a a

703
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:59,760
backseat to that permitting. Um which is
why we've sort of pushed this

704
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:06,079
application and along for several months
here through your statutory limits to

705
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:10,559
allow um the engineers to get to a point
where they feel they're going to have if

706
00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:15,040
any very little modifications to the
design so that they wouldn't have to

707
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:19,359
come back to you. Right. And I think old
Sabbrook right now has just had to

708
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:22,720
they've just admitted that they have to
replace a bridge that they just put in a

709
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:26,559
year ago. I don't know if any of you saw
that. They didn't get it high enough.

710
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:32,000
So, I'm glad to hear that you're going a
little extra high um to accommodate, you

711
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:36,319
know, sea level rise and whatever. Or
that the road also can be raised without

712
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:39,520
having to disrupt everything underneath.
>> That's right.

713
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:44,319
» Because um you know, if the previous one
lasted since the 60s, then are you

714
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:48,400
projecting how long this will last?
>> They're designed to last 75 to 100

715
00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:53,040
years.
So we might have higher segment. That

716
00:58:51,119 --> 00:58:57,599
might be a different kind of marsh in
100 years like underwater.

717
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,359
» All right.
Thank you. Um.

718
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:05,160
» Yes.
>> Would someone like to make a motion to

719
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,160
approve? We have a draft resolution.

720
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:11,119
» Thank you, Michelle.
>> Second.

721
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,880
» Do you want to read it then? [laughter]
>> Why not, John?

722
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:16,720
» Thank you, John.
>> The following draft resolution is

723
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:21,760
offered. The Madison Planning and Zoning
Commission approves application number

724
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:27,599
26-15
plus CSP Garnet Park Road owner

725
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:31,520
applicant town of Madison. Application
for a coastal state plan review for the

726
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:35,520
replacement of the Garnet Park Road
bridge over Bailey Creek as shown

727
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:39,599
application materials with the following
conditions. One, that the zoning

728
00:59:37,599 --> 00:59:44,720
enforcement officer be notified at least
48 hours prior to the commencement of

729
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:49,119
any regulated activity.
Two, that all erosion and sedimentation

730
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:53,760
controls be installed prior to any site
disturbance and be maintained for the

731
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:57,599
duration of construction activities and
until a site is sufficiently stabilized

732
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:01,599
to the satisfaction of a zoning
enforcement officer. In the event that

733
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:05,119
changes to the approved plans are
required as a result of other agency

734
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:08,559
permitting to support the proposed
activity, the Madison planning and

735
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:13,440
zoning commission reserves the right to
review said changes and may require

736
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:18,400
modification and disapproval.
The commission finds that with the above

737
01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:21,680
reference conditions, including those
imposed by state and f federal

738
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:25,359
regulations,
proposal is consistent with all

739
01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:30,799
applicable goals and policies in the
coastal management act and section 15 of

740
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:36,319
the Madison zoning regulations. The
effective date of this approval is

741
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:39,319
September 17th, 2026.
Second,

742
01:00:39,839 --> 01:00:46,559
any further discussion in favor? Very
well done.

743
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:51,040
» It's approved. Good luck. Can't wait to
have it.

744
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:54,960
» Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it.
>> Thank you.

745
01:00:52,400 --> 01:01:03,359
» All right. Next on the agenda, we have
um 26-33 plus coastal site plan for 1321

746
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:09,599
Boston Post Road. This is a M um map 31,
lot 32,

747
01:01:05,359 --> 01:01:12,559
zone C, owner applicant JL Bore LLC.
application for minor site plan

748
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:18,240
modification and coastal site plan to
install EV chargers in the parking lot.

749
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:21,280
Do we have Yes. So, I wasn't sure if we
were going to be moving forward this

750
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:29,440
evening, but I do see that Chelsea is
here um

751
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:35,280
uh I believe for um the application. Um
let me just

752
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:42,000
confirm. Um this is typically uh EV
chargers are considered a minor site

753
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:48,880
plan modification. um would go to uh AKA
for review as required by the

754
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:55,440
regulations. Um in this case um they did
uh go before AKA at their August meeting

755
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:59,119
and um
AKA had no comments. They're standard

756
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:04,240
chargers.
>> Yeah, standard pedestal. Um there's a

757
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:08,559
pedestal in the front of the property.
This is the existing vet office next to

758
01:02:06,319 --> 01:02:12,079
the Dunkin Donuts on Post Road. And then
another one in the back parking area for

759
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:17,760
cats and dogs.
>> Um yes, one for cat owners.

760
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:22,799
» No, I think one's for employees, one's
for um

761
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:27,040
» uh guests. The um the only reason it's
before you is because a site plan

762
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:33,760
modification triggers a coastal site
plan application. Um clearly there are

763
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:39,520
no coastal uh impacts associated with
this application. Um the only coastal

764
01:02:36,319 --> 01:02:44,240
resources present on the site um if
you're familiar with the location are

765
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:47,440
the standard general resources that
apply to every single property within

766
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,920
the coastal zone.
>> This is precious across from the Dunk

767
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,599
McDonald's.
>> It's next to the dump.

768
01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:59,599
» Yeah, it's they share that access
driveway. Um so there's very little

769
01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:07,920
excavation um you know associated with
digging out those. Um, so I did um draft

770
01:03:03,839 --> 01:03:13,119
a a general uh resolution here um for
you that I'm happy to share. Um

771
01:03:11,599 --> 01:03:16,319
I don't know if does the commission have
any questions? This is such a

772
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:21,359
» minor basic
>> application. I'm not sure it

773
01:03:19,359 --> 01:03:24,319
» requires boilerplate approval language
because we can just read one of the ones

774
01:03:22,559 --> 01:03:29,200
we got and swap out the the name.
>> Yep. I'll just I I just am screen

775
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:34,400
sharing it for you right now. Um
>> and not Are these fast chargers or

776
01:03:32,799 --> 01:03:39,680
» I think they are fast. Yeah.
>> Are they free?

777
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:44,240
» I don't think anything's free.
>> They they gave in the packet of of

778
01:03:41,839 --> 01:03:50,480
information they showed
gave us.

779
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:53,280
» Anyone read that?
>> Are you close enough to read?

780
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:58,720
» Sure.
>> Thank you. While Madison Planning Zoning

781
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:04,400
Commission approves application of the
26-33

782
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:14,559
Boston Coastal site plan 1321 Boston
Post Road map 31 lot 32 zone C owner

783
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:19,359
applicant JL LLC application for minor
site plan modifications in coastal site

784
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:24,160
plan installed EV chargers in parking
lot as shown on application documents

785
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:27,760
the following conditions. One, that the
zoning enforcement officer be notified

786
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:31,680
at least 48 hours prior to the
commencement of any regulated activity.

787
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:35,440
Two, that any necessary erosion and
sedimentation controls installed prior

788
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:38,799
to any site disturbance and be
maintained for the duration of

789
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:42,799
construction activities and until the
site sufficiently stabilized

790
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:46,880
satisfaction zoning enforcement officer.
the event that changes to the improved

791
01:04:44,799 --> 01:04:51,440
plans are required as a result of
weather agency permitting to support the

792
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:56,160
proposed activity. Madison planning and
zoning commission reserves the right to

793
01:04:52,880 --> 01:05:00,160
review said changes and may require
modifications modification of this

794
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:04,319
approval.
Bishop finds that but with the above

795
01:05:02,799 --> 01:05:10,240
reference conditions proposal is
consistent with all topical goals and

796
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:15,520
policies coastal management act in
section 15 of mask and zoning

797
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:19,280
regulations. No anticipated acts to
coastal resources are expected. The

798
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:23,920
effective date of this approval is
September 17th 2026.

799
01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:29,400
» Second
m further discussion. All in favor?

800
01:05:30,079 --> 01:05:36,160
» Thank you everybody.
>> Thanks for explaining that.

801
01:05:35,359 --> 01:05:40,799
» Oh,
>> next on the agenda 26-34

802
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:45,039
plus coastal site plan for 19 Advent
Hill Road. Um they've I think we're

803
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:52,720
going to
>> reschedule. So, if I could have a motion

804
01:05:47,839 --> 01:05:57,680
to reschedu this was it was schedumber
17th, but we'd like to move the public

805
01:05:54,559 --> 01:06:00,880
hearing to October 1st.
>> Motion.

806
01:05:58,319 --> 01:06:05,200
» Thank you. Second.
Any further discussion? All in favor?

807
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:12,079
So, that will get put on the agenda for
October 1st. Okay. Then phone 6-29 um

808
01:06:09,359 --> 01:06:17,200
plus Coastal Sydney for Mill Road. Um,
this was the one that was opened on

809
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:21,680
September 17th and continued, I'm sorry,
opened in August and continued to

810
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:26,799
September 17th. And we saw that there
was quite a turnout. And the question is

811
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:31,599
now um that I wanted to discuss with
everybody and take a vote on it was what

812
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:37,359
should we do? I had said that we would
find a larger space to accommodate the

813
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:42,720
public. Um, turns out I think the only
option might be Neck River Elementary

814
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:48,319
School. Um Erin, you're not keen on a
new place for a big for you know a

815
01:06:46,799 --> 01:06:51,920
public hearing that
>> how much more can you get in over there?

816
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:56,000
» That room is not available.
>> Awesome.

817
01:06:52,880 --> 01:07:00,160
» Yeah. So and so the question is should
we go to all Zoom? I prefer not to do

818
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:03,520
that because I have trouble seeing.
>> I should not do

819
01:07:01,839 --> 01:07:09,440
» um and I also feel that it is important
to listen to people. So I just wanted to

820
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:12,799
get a sense um it would be easier to do
Zoom for sure

821
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:16,400
is better. Erin, do you want to add some
more pluses of from Zoom versus

822
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,400
» Sure.
>> trying to figure out what it

823
01:07:18,319 --> 01:07:23,599
» given the fact that uh there was a
turnout at the last meeting. This room

824
01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:27,280
has limited capacity.
>> Correct.

825
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:32,480
» Uh there's limited uh meeting rooms
available uh with hybrid capacity due to

826
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:38,720
construction projects within the school.
this room next door uh meeting room C is

827
01:07:35,359 --> 01:07:44,400
not available. Um experience that we
have had in sharing even if the room was

828
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:49,520
available in sharing overflow rooms and
things like that. Um you always have to

829
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:54,880
consider when there's an application
with opposition the potential for

830
01:07:51,359 --> 01:08:01,039
appeal, the potential for having
accurate transcripts, having everyone be

831
01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:04,960
able to be heard to see. Um, we have one
screen here in this room that's

832
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:11,920
available for viewing for folks in
person. It was my recommendation that

833
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:20,000
the um meeting be moved to entirely Zoom
to uh best accommodate everyone um for

834
01:08:16,159 --> 01:08:25,839
visibility and hearing and um Carol
expressed concern um about being able to

835
01:08:23,199 --> 01:08:29,440
see on a smaller screen. Um there are
individual accommodations for

836
01:08:27,759 --> 01:08:37,440
commissioners and any member of the
public. Um if there are uh you know a

837
01:08:34,480 --> 01:08:42,799
need for a larger screen or no access to
a computer, things like that, those

838
01:08:39,679 --> 01:08:49,120
opportunities are always available. Um,
Carol did uh request that we have

839
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:55,520
consultation from our town attorney um
which was done yesterday and um uh

840
01:08:52,560 --> 01:09:02,159
Carrie Olsen did as well recommend uh
the Zoom format entirely. Um but Carol u

841
01:08:59,759 --> 01:09:09,120
today requested that we bring this to
the commission um and open the agenda uh

842
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:14,480
for the commission to vote on this. Um,
I think this is somewhat unique as the

843
01:09:11,839 --> 01:09:21,520
commission has in my history at least,
um, never voted on a venue or a location

844
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:27,359
for a meeting. Um, it's a little unusual
and, um, I just wanted to be able to at

845
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:33,440
least share uh, at least the background
of that. As Carol mentioned, Neck River

846
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:38,000
um, elementary school is uh, does have
an open cafe

847
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:42,319
uh, setting. There have been public
information sessions there. Um the

848
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:50,560
planning and zoning commission has never
had a meeting there. Um the capabilities

849
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:57,199
of it are not fully determined at this
point. If the commission decides to uh

850
01:09:53,839 --> 01:10:02,640
vote to hold the meeting there um and
there isn't time to do practice runs um

851
01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:09,360
to do that either. The room is not
available until 6:30 the evening of the

852
01:10:05,440 --> 01:10:14,880
meeting. Um so at 6:30 in the evening uh
200 chairs would have to be assembled

853
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:18,640
and it would have to be made available
um so that the meeting could begin at

854
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:22,719
7:00.
>> That's new information for me too. So

855
01:10:20,719 --> 01:10:25,040
» well I had I had to look for some of
that information this afternoon after

856
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:29,440
your
>> when we request again it it became

857
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:32,880
apparent that it was really Aaron in
favor of Zoom and me in favor of in

858
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,920
person and I didn't feel comfortable
making the decision. I wanted to hear

859
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:39,280
from commissioners.
>> Um,

860
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:41,840
» what about
And

861
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:44,719
» what about the senior center? Didn't we
use that one?

862
01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:48,560
» Yeah, Mike just asked that too. Sorry.
It's not going to give you a larger I

863
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:53,520
don't think it's big enough actually.
>> If you're looking to acco I don't know

864
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:57,520
how many people to anticipate in person.
I know it would exceed the capacity of

865
01:10:55,600 --> 01:11:01,920
meeting room day. And the other kind of
thing for me too is that when they when

866
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:06,719
everyone came out for the you know when
we first opened the public hearing and

867
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:12,239
then left I said we'll look for a bigger
venue and so I felt like okay [laughter]

868
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:16,719
» I wanted to just make sure that
everybody knows what the options are and

869
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:21,520
what the pluses and minuses are of each
one and and make a decision if we can.

870
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:28,159
» I agree with you. I think we should be
in person. I think this was a very

871
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,159
community

872
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:34,560
uh
there's a lot of interest and a lot of

873
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:38,480
feelings about it and I think that we
should give the community an opportunity

874
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,960
to kind of be heard together and if we
can make that happen I think that we

875
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:44,159
should
>> I guess I guess that's a question is can

876
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,840
we make it happen
>> I think the dynamics are very different

877
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,800
» in person
>> person

878
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:53,600
» this is we're not talking about just an
in-person meeting this is a hybrid

879
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:59,440
meeting of one
>> oh hybrid yeah of course get the

880
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:02,159
opportunity for and most folks who
significant

881
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:07,600
session
>> right so frankly I think everyone was in

882
01:12:05,679 --> 01:12:11,000
the room almost there
>> there's some

883
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:18,640
what are the possibilities were the
rules on us being here and public being

884
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:22,640
online
>> us and applicants being here

885
01:12:20,159 --> 01:12:26,239
» hybrid hybrid
if if the commission is meeting in

886
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:32,080
person then the public would need to be
met in person unless there was a

887
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:37,600
specific accommodation for if you were
for example as I explained to Carol if

888
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:42,239
there's uh limitations or needing a
larger screen you may attend here in

889
01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:48,239
person so that you have access to a
screen if you don't have that at your

890
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:54,400
home to participate remotely. Um, and
again, we've had uh other hearings where

891
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:59,120
a resident did not have access to a
computer, something like that. We set

892
01:12:56,239 --> 01:13:03,760
them up um at a location where they was
able to participate

893
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:08,719
» coming out of the pandemic, the state
legislated how, you know, what the

894
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:13,440
options are now post pandemic and post
zoom only. And I think you do have to

895
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:16,880
accommodate anyone who can't either
doesn't have a computer or can't has,

896
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:22,480
you know, I have some visual impairment.
I have to I would I can't see on my

897
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:27,280
laptop plans when they're opened and
zooming in. Sometimes I lose resolution

898
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:30,239
» and that can be done upon request. It's
not that

899
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:33,520
» I I would probably come here and use the
big screen

900
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:35,360
» but we can't then have the public still
struggling with why we can't make it

901
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:39,520
happen.
>> Yeah, I would think what about changing

902
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:45,199
the meeting next door? Can they change
the date for that? I I that room is

903
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:48,880
already
>> that that room is already reserved for

904
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:52,159
another group.
>> Well,

905
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:57,360
» your option if you're looking to have a
larger venue that's hybrid, the neck

906
01:13:55,360 --> 01:14:02,000
river elementary school is your only
option.

907
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:05,520
» So, what is the AV U setup that we have
to do at Neck River? And

908
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:08,400
» that's something I have no experience
doing at Neck River.

909
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:13,199
» So, here we have camera and we have
screens. You have camera on the

910
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:17,600
television. It's it's a independent it's
a cafeteria. So the IT department would

911
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:19,920
have to set that up.
>> It depends whether they have that school

912
01:14:19,199 --> 01:14:27,440
or not.
>> They they bring the in the I would offer

913
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:32,000
that it's a brand new building
that I would expect them to have

914
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:37,360
sufficient capabilities to accommodate
if they offer that room for such

915
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:42,480
» meetings. Just because we haven't done
it before doesn't mean it hasn't done

916
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:46,080
» has have other groups used it
>> the board of selectman have used it for

917
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:49,760
uh an EOI
>> and they had a successful hybrid

918
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:54,719
sessions.
>> It was a hybrid meeting. I don't you

919
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:59,040
know you know it's a there are are
differences between the planning and

920
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:05,199
zoning commission and legal proceedings
and and having folks be able to be heard

921
01:15:01,679 --> 01:15:10,640
and produce transcripts for appeals and
things of that nature. So there there

922
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:15,679
are unknowns but you know that has not
appeals have not been generated. Um I

923
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:23,679
don't know what the crowds are or how
that sound will transfer. Um the EOI uh

924
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:31,520
academy school meeting was a camera on
the side and some uh uh projection

925
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:35,679
screen. Um it doesn't give the attendees
necessarily. It would be sort of this

926
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:38,960
side view of that
>> and that was recorded. So

927
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:42,960
» I don't I I think it was so we could go
watch it.

928
01:15:40,239 --> 01:15:48,400
» You can go watch it but I'm I I'm saying
there are unknowns that we have never

929
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:54,640
staffed the meeting that way. Um, as I
said, there's after school care um in

930
01:15:50,880 --> 01:16:02,480
that room until 6:30 um every day. Um,
and so there are limitations on getting

931
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:08,320
the room ready um after 6:30. Um, and I
don't know who is available at the

932
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:13,040
building through maintenance or it to
get that room ready. Um, that's not

933
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:19,760
something that falls on your land use
staff to uh set up that school venue. So

934
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:26,159
if the commission chooses to move
forward um with a hybrid meeting um know

935
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:31,840
that there's a caveat if the
capabilities are not able to be met at

936
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:36,000
that room then the meeting um would
wouldn't be appropriate to be there

937
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:40,239
» two weeks we have at least two weeks to
determine a course of action.

938
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:44,880
» Yeah. Are we allowed to communicate on
this matter via email once we get some

939
01:16:42,719 --> 01:16:49,360
more uh information around the
capabilities

940
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:53,360
technically at NAR?
>> What information are you

941
01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:56,159
» can we get it there? Can we get this
staff?

942
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:58,560
» Can we go look at it and see the room
after

943
01:16:56,719 --> 01:17:03,040
» can the commission go and look at it
during school hours? I I don't know.

944
01:17:00,719 --> 01:17:06,880
» Well, Erin, I also offered to go do
practice runs with you if we

945
01:17:04,719 --> 01:17:10,480
» I'm not able to do that during the day.
I can

946
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:16,320
» um the school is in session. We are not
able to do that during the day. The room

947
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:22,960
is used for the elementary school and it
is used by afterare until 6:30. We have

948
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:27,440
multiple meetings uh between now and
that meeting I'm unable to go and do a

949
01:17:25,679 --> 01:17:30,960
practice run for the commission.
>> If some of the commission are able to do

950
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:34,560
it at a time that works for the school,
is that acceptable?

951
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:38,239
» That would have to be coordinated. I
don't know that there's it available or

952
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:40,880
anyone to do that. I don't have the
answer to that.

953
01:17:38,719 --> 01:17:46,239
» What's your sense of the senior center
capacity and and I have I have I don't

954
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:49,600
know the number of that and I don't know
if the room is available or not

955
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:53,760
» but I wonder if that's worth pursuing
too because it's true we we had almost

956
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:57,360
everybody
>> there might be more people coming next

957
01:17:55,920 --> 01:18:00,960
time. There might be fewer people. Are
we allowed to publish?

958
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:04,640
» We're unable to find an alternate
location. Please note the public the

959
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:09,520
room can only accommodate X number first
come first serve. We will

960
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:14,239
» or and I was also asking if people if
the overflow could sit out you know in

961
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:19,040
the hallways with their laptops even and
>> Zoom there are limitations to fire code

962
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:23,440
and and things like that. This is why
this isn't typically a decision for the

963
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:28,400
commission to make.
>> This is typically logistics of staff

964
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:33,440
trying to find a venue that could
accommodate them. So, I don't have all

965
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:42,640
of the answers for you as far as, you
know, this room fits 68 people total.

966
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:47,360
Um, as you could probably imagine having
>> more chairs,

967
01:18:43,199 --> 01:18:50,800
» but that's only 30ome chairs.
>> Yeah.

968
01:18:48,239 --> 01:18:55,280
» I can't, you know, you you run the risk
of a hybrid meeting in this room that

969
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:59,920
you cannot fit people. You cannot just
bring couches in and things like that.

970
01:18:57,199 --> 01:19:06,320
that occurred at the last meeting. Um
when a room is um you know the fire

971
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:11,360
marshall and I've done this previously
setting up rooms the fire marshall in

972
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:15,760
here measuring and making sure walkways
are adequate. If hallways are full, the

973
01:19:13,679 --> 01:19:20,159
fire marshall will come down and shut
the meeting down. It has happened

974
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:25,760
before. He was here uh a week and a half
ago, two weeks ago for the board of

975
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:31,280
selectment meeting. um it it isn't you
know so in planning ahead these are

976
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:37,760
these are risks that are taken you may
have IT challenges at a location that we

977
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:45,280
have not had any experience with which
could impact potential

978
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:52,000
uh transcripts and and legal proceedings
if they happen to

979
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:56,640
occur after a meeting um or you know as
I I I can only give you the information

980
01:19:54,159 --> 01:20:03,600
that we have, the physical challenges of
of staff trying to accommodate these

981
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:08,800
rooms um and um what our attorney has
recommended. If the commission wants to

982
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:14,960
vote to pick a different room, um I have
no information on the uh senior center

983
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:19,679
for you. Um I simply have uh neck river
as your option if you wanted to vote

984
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:24,080
this. So I would offer
there are many opportunities for the

985
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:29,040
public to come attend our meetings and
we cannot predict who will show up when

986
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:34,000
and where. So I think it's
important for us to consider the future

987
01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:37,760
state of public hearings and if this
room can only accommodate a certain

988
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:43,840
number of individuals, we should prepare
for the maximum number to show up in

989
01:20:40,719 --> 01:20:48,000
this room and perhaps in the future we
might need to consider alternate

990
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:52,640
locations. If this is an option in front
of us and we have an opportunity to test

991
01:20:50,719 --> 01:20:56,560
a location
such as the school, I think we should

992
01:20:54,560 --> 01:21:02,320
investigate that so that we are prepared
for future public hearings.

993
01:20:58,719 --> 01:21:05,679
» We're not um
>> we're not untested and untried and we

994
01:21:04,239 --> 01:21:09,600
have an understanding of what
limitations are in terms of capacity and

995
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:13,760
technology and what the experience for
the public as well as the participants

996
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:19,440
and the applicants would be. So I I
think we should investigate our options

997
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:23,600
further. I would offer adding additional
chairs with consideration from the fire

998
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:28,880
marshall and how could we set up this
room in advance to accommodate

999
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:34,640
additional
audience members in anticipation of the

1000
01:21:32,480 --> 01:21:40,560
Milroad application. I think that should
be our first option to look at. Um if

1001
01:21:38,239 --> 01:21:44,640
not then I I would recommend we
investigate neck road as an option or

1002
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:51,640
the senior center.
I my vote for an all zoom meeting would

1003
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:51,640
be the last option.

1004
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:56,480
» Anybody else?
>> Do we have time?

1005
01:21:53,679 --> 01:22:00,639
» A quick comment is that I wonder
>> both these arctics and the legality of

1006
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:05,840
an all meeting
>> and we haven't had anything else. So

1007
01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:10,080
this time just because we know there's
issues coming up we're treating it

1008
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:12,639
differently. That doesn't look very good
to me.

1009
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:15,760
» That's a good point.
>> Plus we really need the face to face.

1010
01:22:14,239 --> 01:22:20,159
» That was my thought back during the
pandemic. Right. But question where did

1011
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:22,639
the border select committee relocate to
after the far?

1012
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:25,840
» They didn't need to relocate. There
weren't enough people in the hallways.

1013
01:22:24,719 --> 01:22:29,120
» Awesome.
>> But he was called in to look.

1014
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:34,480
» And did they have they had extra rows of
chairs in here? We set up a room in

1015
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:40,800
anticipation. This is something that is
not unusual to staff. We constantly

1016
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:46,400
gauge the expectation of who will be at
public meetings. Um, and I think your

1017
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:51,600
staff in particular has gone above and
beyond trying to accommodate the public

1018
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:57,120
and making documents and meetings as
accessible as possible. We're probably

1019
01:22:54,239 --> 01:23:02,880
the only commission that has run a dual
meeting with Zoom access in another room

1020
01:23:00,639 --> 01:23:10,320
which happened during the Tumine uh
hearings. Um people it it it was angry,

1021
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:16,000
it was unruly. uh the police were here
um and the transcripts were not audible

1022
01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:21,679
and that makes a challenge when
something is appealed and quite frankly

1023
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:26,159
it's an unnecessary burden on staff um
without any other resources here to man

1024
01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:30,239
two meeting rooms to try to accommodate
that.

1025
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:35,760
the the the point of public
accessibility is so that it's not

1026
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:41,440
necessarily to jam as many people in a
room as you're able to to make a

1027
01:23:39,199 --> 01:23:46,080
physical room. It's it's creating
opportunities for people to be able to

1028
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:52,480
participate in a meeting and hear
clearly and the commission to be heard

1029
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:57,360
and to and to see yes visually. um
you'll know you fill this room with 68

1030
01:23:54,880 --> 01:24:02,320
people, you have one screen that is
visible. This screen does not screen

1031
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:07,040
share you. So these are things that you
are all need to be considered. There's

1032
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:11,199
no more exploration of options in this
room um for

1033
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:14,159
» you know this is how at our August
meeting was it this set up for the rows

1034
01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:15,440
of chairs?
>> Yes.

1035
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,760
» Yeah.
>> Yes. So

1036
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:22,880
» you can fit one more row of chairs here.
That that is

1037
01:24:21,199 --> 01:24:25,679
» 30 and it says what?
>> 689

1038
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:28,480
of us.
>> Yeah.

1039
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:32,880
» You have to look at the size of the
chairs and the furniture that we have in

1040
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:38,800
here and that includes staff in the
commission as well. So although those

1041
01:24:36,159 --> 01:24:44,400
the number in capacity for the square
footage for the room may be 68, you may

1042
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:49,120
not physically be able to fit 68 chairs
in this room for people based on the

1043
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:53,679
furniture that is purchased here. They
have arms on them. We we do the best we

1044
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:59,760
can to limit the distance in between the
seats and to maintain the emergency

1045
01:24:56,719 --> 01:25:06,360
aisles, but you have a fixed amount of
space here for the public. Got it. Chair

1046
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:06,360
can't do a reservation.

1047
01:25:06,639 --> 01:25:11,840
» Are we able to add for this meeting?
>> Would we be able to add one more row of

1048
01:25:11,199 --> 01:25:14,400
chairs?
>> Yes,

1049
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:19,360
» we have chairs that we can set up if
that's where you're looking to go.

1050
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:24,960
» Know that if you have people in excess,
they will be asked to leave the room and

1051
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:29,280
if they're in the hallways, they have to
maintain appropriate aisles and they

1052
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:33,280
would be asked to participate remotely.
The other thing to keep in mind is that

1053
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:37,679
we haven't even heard this application,
you know, right? I

1054
01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:41,199
that's fine. I'm also leaning for just
having it here increasing as many

1055
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:46,320
putting it in as many chairs as we can
hoping for the best. See what happens

1056
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:51,600
but the applicant could still present
the application.

1057
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:55,120
» Worst case is you have to continue the
hearing because you can't

1058
01:25:53,199 --> 01:26:00,000
» Exactly.
>> I don't have the answer for

1059
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:02,560
what you're doing. What are you going to
do? Do it all. There's no so

1060
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:07,120
» said them all.
>> My perspective is we add another row. We

1061
01:26:05,440 --> 01:26:10,560
can't predict who's going to show when
or for whichever hearing we have on any

1062
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:16,639
given day.
>> We have advanced warning on this one

1063
01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:19,840
» by chance. When when I walked in here
then I had absolutely no idea we would

1064
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:22,960
have such a public
>> display response.

1065
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:25,920
» It was incredibly surprising for me.
Have we

1066
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:29,360
» so I don't think on any given session we
can anticipate public attendance to that

1067
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:32,560
degree. Can we make some kind of an
announcement for public hearing that you

1068
01:26:31,679 --> 01:26:36,080
know
>> space is limited and

1069
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:39,280
» I think the public is aware of how large
this room is and they're going to clam

1070
01:26:38,159 --> 01:26:43,360
when they get here if they want to
attend and if they get a seat they get a

1071
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:48,000
seat. If not I'm sorry they stand in the
hallway and if they if they create a

1072
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,920
disturbance they'll be asked to leave.
That's just the nature of how we

1073
01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:53,199
operate.
>> We really can't have them milling around

1074
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:55,360
on the back there and nose against your
glass, right?

1075
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:58,800
» Who's to say they didn't show up like
that today? We would not have been

1076
01:26:56,560 --> 01:27:01,800
prepared. Well, we weren't prepared for
that.

1077
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:08,480
» Citizens will be behaved. I don't think
there's any reason to expect.

1078
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:13,920
» And if they so choose, they can go sit
in their car and join from their phone.

1079
01:27:10,159 --> 01:27:17,520
» Yeah, we'll listen,
take notes.

1080
01:27:14,639 --> 01:27:24,639
» I think the best option is accommodate a
safe amount of capacity in this room and

1081
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:30,400
we proceed as planned. Well, then how
about we have like the fire marshal here

1082
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:34,159
or somebody here to kind of manage the
thing if it gets out of hand?

1083
01:27:32,239 --> 01:27:37,120
» Sure.
>> I don't think I'd worry, but it's of

1084
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:41,600
course
>> prior preparation for

1085
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:48,960
» certain
thoughts. I've already given my opinion

1086
01:27:46,159 --> 01:27:53,199
other opinions to give. Can we request a
police officer be here to help with

1087
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:55,760
crowd control or the the fire marshall
come and check to make sure

1088
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:58,239
» the fire marshall will if the room is
crowded the fire marshal will show up?

1089
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:01,840
» Sure.
>> If people are overflowing in the room

1090
01:28:00,239 --> 01:28:04,639
into the hallway the fire marshall will
be here to make sure there are no fire

1091
01:28:03,679 --> 01:28:11,280
code violations.
>> That's not a police officer maintained

1092
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:19,520
» role.
Okay. So um I guess we could but you

1093
01:28:16,719 --> 01:28:24,800
have to know as the chair it's your
responsibility to tell the attendees to

1094
01:28:22,159 --> 01:28:30,639
this meeting how they will have to
>> attend the meeting when there's if there

1095
01:28:27,679 --> 01:28:34,560
is no room in this meeting room for them
>> what's the

1096
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:37,840
» and Erin is there any way to in advance
>> not the night of when they arrive

1097
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:42,480
telling them this but
>> is there any way to get some

1098
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:44,239
notification out that we anticipate
large

1099
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:48,719
» maximum capacity.
>> I wouldn't even

1100
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:54,080
» I wouldn't even do that.
>> It's almost self-fulfilling prophecy.

1101
01:28:51,199 --> 01:28:57,280
» Okay. I would
>> let the public do what it

1102
01:28:56,000 --> 01:29:01,280
» I think one thing you could do I think
one thing you could do is ask people

1103
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:04,560
once they speak and give their opinion
and they've said their bit that they're

1104
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:08,560
going to have to they're going to have
to leave and let someone else come in

1105
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:12,320
that needs to. And you can do it that
way too that they can't sit through the

1106
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:17,040
whole thing and listen here. They can go
to their cars or, you know, whatever and

1107
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:20,960
watch the rest of it if you're going to
have it in person. But I think, you

1108
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:27,199
know, I I got to I think we have to
respect the staff. I mean,

1109
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:32,400
» Aaron knows and
I I think we we do she's right. We do

1110
01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:36,080
accommodate everyone on these thing and
let everyone speak and which I think is

1111
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:42,159
wonderful and we have to do that but at
the same time we have to think about um

1112
01:29:39,679 --> 01:29:46,880
doing you know being efficient too and
if the best way to do it is through a

1113
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:51,760
zoom you know I think I I personally
think we need to respect the staff knows

1114
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:56,800
best.
She sees she sees meetings. She knows

1115
01:29:54,000 --> 01:30:00,560
the co fire, you know, she knows all
this stuff and how much what the

1116
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:04,320
furniture, you know, we have to
accommodate and setting up. I mean, when

1117
01:30:02,639 --> 01:30:09,760
I heard that they're going to set up 200
chairs after the kids leave at 6:30 from

1118
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:14,080
after school in an elementary school
where parents are picking up, I think

1119
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:19,040
that's a disaster waiting to happen. I
think that's a really bad idea.

1120
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:26,560
» Don't think it's necessary. I think we
have the means to to hold the

1121
01:30:22,159 --> 01:30:29,920
appropriate session here as we normally
do

1122
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:33,760
» and the public will be determined.
>> Yeah, I think

1123
01:30:32,159 --> 01:30:38,080
» I think your your tenure on the
commission has not experienced a very

1124
01:30:35,679 --> 01:30:43,040
busy public hearing, a contentious
public hearing. So I think it will play

1125
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:47,360
out and if that's the decision that the
commission would like to vote on. Um

1126
01:30:45,199 --> 01:30:52,239
that's what Carol has brought to the
floor then

1127
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:55,760
so we give it a try. That's up to the
>> the commission decision at this point.

1128
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,920
» Janet and John you might be in favor of
Zoom.

1129
01:30:56,159 --> 01:31:03,840
» I would vote for Zoom. Yeah.
>> Do you want to have a full vote on this?

1130
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:07,920
» Yeah. Yeah. So, how about um first raise
your hand if you're willing to try the

1131
01:31:05,679 --> 01:31:10,800
hybrid as usual
>> at this location?

1132
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:15,960
» At this location?
>> I'm I'm sorry. Um what are what's

1133
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:26,000
» If we want to formal Robert's rules,
could I have a motion that we have the

1134
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:29,199
meeting as scheduled as a hybrid in this
room?

1135
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:35,080
» I provide a motion.
>> Second. Second discussion on favor

1136
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:41,920
» and that was to John Duca second.
>> Yes.

1137
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:46,760
» And who was
>> opposed is John Morgan and Janet Pin?

1138
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:58,560
» J are we clear on the options are hybrid
here additional seating carry on or

1139
01:31:56,719 --> 01:32:02,320
fully zoom?
>> Yeah.

1140
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:10,120
because said you weren't here during the
Tmaine hearings. [laughter] I mean, it's

1141
01:32:06,159 --> 01:32:10,120
it can get pretty full.

1142
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:15,280
» Boy, Janet, that was something else.
>> Wow.

1143
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:19,520
» I just remember going over to the other
room and talking to people who were

1144
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:22,880
waiting and and them complaining to me
because they couldn't be heard. You

1145
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:28,719
know, we we were here for three hours
and we're not allowed to speak. And, you

1146
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:33,440
know, it was it got pretty heated.
Carol, I think you did a great job this

1147
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:38,320
morning at the top of this session
instructing the audience about the

1148
01:32:35,679 --> 01:32:43,360
comments. If you agree with someone,
keep your comment.

1149
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:48,880
» I think that was a lovely addition.
>> We have a large number that will limit

1150
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:53,199
the time for questions and comments.
>> State that up front. You have

1151
01:32:50,480 --> 01:32:57,120
» get it all up front and and that I think
will help the government.

1152
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:59,840
» Yeah.
timer for each person or for the

1153
01:32:58,719 --> 01:33:06,639
» person total second.
>> No, each person was taking two minutes.

1154
01:33:04,159 --> 01:33:09,440
» And there's a timer. Why don't we select
time

1155
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:14,400
» as they are
>> handle it as best we can as

1156
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:20,400
» that work well.
>> Okay. All right. Thanks everybody and

1157
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:25,760
thanks for your input and
>> the options. Um, next on the Erin, did

1158
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:29,520
you want to say anything further about
26-29

1159
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:32,960
public hearing?
>> No.

1160
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:37,760
» Okay. 26-30128
Samson Rock Drive. This is a site plan

1161
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:42,400
and major downtown village district of
alteration to stand to install a

1162
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:46,639
standalone unmanned redemption center in
the existing parking lot. Um, we already

1163
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:50,960
have the public hearing scheduled for
October 1st.

1164
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:55,679
» Yes. What is a redemption center? Is
this something religious?

1165
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:58,960
» Throw your clothes.
>> The application materials are

1166
01:33:58,159 --> 01:34:02,120
» Yeah, you can look at it
>> in there.

1167
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:13,840
» Okay, but there is you can see on the
>> All right. Next is approval of minutes.

1168
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:21,199
Secretary,
>> the August uh 20th uh 2026

1169
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:24,080
minutes. Uh, Janet, you were absent,
correct?

1170
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:28,639
» I was absent.
>> Um, motion to a review or approve the

1171
01:34:26,719 --> 01:34:31,600
minutes.
Second.

1172
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:36,960
» Second.
>> Um, I just had a couple of minor wording

1173
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:42,719
changes. Uh, there was a on page five
improved needed to be changed to

1174
01:34:38,719 --> 01:34:48,800
improved. And on page six, uh, they were
talking about the, uh, valve walls on

1175
01:34:44,719 --> 01:34:55,040
the course. Uh just changing uh install
install warning of flying flying golf

1176
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:59,080
balls instead of fly golf balls.
>> Not really cool golf balls.

1177
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:06,320
» No.
>> Any anybody else have any changes?

1178
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:11,719
» No changes but it was a long meeting.
This is a question of words completion

1179
01:35:16,906 --> 01:35:18,926
[clears throat]

1180
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:21,280
to approve.
>> Motion to approve.

1181
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:23,440
» Second.
>> Second.

1182
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:26,320
» All in favor?
>> Thank you.

1183
01:35:25,199 --> 01:35:32,000
» Thank you, Aaron, for these good
minutes. Yes.

1184
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:38,560
» Okay. Um, couple of remarks. Aaron and I
have been planning um a couple of events

1185
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:43,520
let you know about. One is a an informal
session at the surf club of all land use

1186
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:48,880
related agencies,
commissioners, commission

1187
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:52,480
members. The invite's about to go out,
Erin.

1188
01:35:50,159 --> 01:35:57,360
» Yep. We'll send it out probably. Um I
was waiting for another flyer um to have

1189
01:35:55,040 --> 01:36:03,280
some final text. So if not tomorrow,
it'll go out Tuesday. Um it's it's

1190
01:36:00,480 --> 01:36:07,199
really kind of more of a gathering for
land use related boards and commissions

1191
01:36:05,679 --> 01:36:11,520
for us to meet each other, get to know
each other, find out

1192
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:16,159
» completely optional.
>> Um just to kind of

1193
01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:21,679
may have food but not enough food to
keep you to stay too long.

1194
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:27,920
» When's the date?
>> On strong field that I'm gonna be

1195
01:36:23,199 --> 01:36:30,000
itching a bit at. So, it it should go um
I I think we said

1196
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:34,639
» 5 to 7.
>> Yeah. Or 5 to like 6:45, I think.

1197
01:36:32,159 --> 01:36:40,800
Sunset. Nice little sunset and and go.
But it's really um you know, not a a a

1198
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:46,480
venue to be taking notes and things like
that. It's really kind of to to put a

1199
01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:53,280
face to these various um boards and
committees um who are advisory or

1200
01:36:50,480 --> 01:36:56,639
looking to um move forward their
charges, understand what other

1201
01:36:54,960 --> 01:37:01,920
committees charges are, things like
that. See how they all kind of play a

1202
01:36:59,199 --> 01:37:08,719
role in um some of the goals and actions
of the POC and the strategic plan. um

1203
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:15,440
kind of grease the skids for uh warming
them all up to give some feedback to the

1204
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:20,880
commission um on October 1st. We're
hoping um that commission members are

1205
01:37:17,679 --> 01:37:24,800
available from 6:00 to 7 uh to regular
meeting but early

1206
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:31,040
» to come an hour earlier to allow for a
regulation um informal not informal a

1207
01:37:28,719 --> 01:37:34,000
listening session excuse me um before
the full commission um

1208
01:37:32,719 --> 01:37:37,280
» with
>> and

1209
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:41,280
our our first
>> it's a regular meeting date

1210
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:45,520
» um and you have regular business that
starts at 7 but what we're hoping to do

1211
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:52,320
is have a listening session that will be
available in room C and um via Zoom to

1212
01:37:49,440 --> 01:37:56,159
allow the public um we're going to you
know put something in the paper as well

1213
01:37:54,000 --> 01:38:01,920
and and get this flyer out posted for
everybody um in advance so they know um

1214
01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:05,840
but there there are people who would
like to give some feedback on

1215
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:11,360
recommended changes to the zoning
regulations um also want to kind of

1216
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:14,960
understand the project itself what is
within the realm of this project and

1217
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:20,239
capabilities and what the commission
cannot do. Um, so your consultant will

1218
01:38:17,679 --> 01:38:24,719
be ready to kind of guide that uh
discussion, maybe ceue up some good

1219
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:31,360
questions for the public to get them
thinking and and um allow for that hour

1220
01:38:28,400 --> 01:38:37,600
of some feedback and then uh move over
here into room A for your regular

1221
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:43,040
meeting. Um and then um you know based
off of that meeting see if um there's a

1222
01:38:40,239 --> 01:38:48,000
need for additional um feedback
sessions, things like that, more focused

1223
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:52,000
groups, that that kind of thing. Um
>> sorry, sorry. When when was the date of

1224
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:55,360
this meeting for all the land use? I
didn't hear the date.

1225
01:38:53,440 --> 01:38:58,000
» That was September 24th.
>> Oh, soon. I'm sorry.

1226
01:38:56,639 --> 01:39:01,760
» September 24th.
>> Yeah.

1227
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:05,119
» September. And the time was 5. It starts
>> 5 6:37 something like that. Yeah. about

1228
01:39:04,480 --> 01:39:08,480
an hour and a half.
>> Okay. Sorry, I didn't hear the date.

1229
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:13,840
» It's not mandatory, but it would be
great. It would be nice to go and meet

1230
01:39:11,119 --> 01:39:18,320
everybody.
>> Yeah, I don't know how many, you know,

1231
01:39:16,239 --> 01:39:23,119
folks from the various boards and
committees will come. Um I, you know, I

1232
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:27,840
suspect at least one or two from them
can come. Um, but you know, you've got

1233
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:32,639
land use related boards like ZBA or
Inland Wetlands and you know, I'm not

1234
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:35,920
sure how much since their their charge
is a little specific. I'm not sure how

1235
01:39:34,719 --> 01:39:37,360
much.
>> Um,

1236
01:39:36,639 --> 01:39:42,159
» that's good.
>> So, those are the two dates. I would um

1237
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:49,440
it would be very helpful for staff if
anyone has a conflict getting to the 101

1238
01:39:45,679 --> 01:39:52,400
meeting at 6:00 um to let me know. I
just want to make sure that at least we

1239
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:58,320
have the majority of the commission
there um to be able to hear from the

1240
01:39:54,960 --> 01:40:02,239
public. Um and again, that's uh in
person or Zoom, whichever works. If you

1241
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:07,199
you know, if you're not able to
physically get here by six o'clock, if

1242
01:40:04,159 --> 01:40:09,679
you're able to hop on remotely um before
the regular meeting, that's fine as

1243
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:12,719
well.
>> Yeah, good point.

1244
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:17,280
» It's just a listening session.
>> Yes. Yeah, it's a brief a brief overview

1245
01:40:15,119 --> 01:40:21,920
of the project by our consultant and
then um listening to uh members of the

1246
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:25,679
public and any other group who would
like to uh share some feedback with

1247
01:40:24,719 --> 01:40:28,800
» mostly listening.
>> That's it's not going to be a

1248
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:32,800
conversation.
>> It kind of I think it kind of depends on

1249
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:36,480
who shows up like if you have a large
group and you need to kind of hear from

1250
01:40:34,239 --> 01:40:42,800
a lot of people. if it's a smaller group
there. I mean, yes, we encourage

1251
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:47,280
interactive, you know, uh, conversations
here with that. It's not it's not a form

1252
01:40:45,199 --> 01:40:54,480
of public hearing or anything like that.
It's really a chance to to start hearing

1253
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:57,840
from people and to hear the conversation
about

1254
01:40:55,360 --> 01:41:03,040
» what is entailed in regulation updates
and revisions and things. Okay.

1255
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:07,440
» But because it is an hour, it's not
going to be a long presentation. It's

1256
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:11,760
really just kind of brief introduction
and then letting everybody

1257
01:41:10,239 --> 01:41:16,080
» talk. Sure. I think it sounds great.
It's block my calendar.

1258
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:20,560
» Question on the the surf club thing. Is
it considered a meeting?

1259
01:41:18,159 --> 01:41:27,520
» It's it's I mean we'll notice it as a as
a gathering. It's not Yeah, it's not a

1260
01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:33,520
um it's a multi-group workshop. It's not
um anything

1261
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:38,639
It's not it's not meant to be boards and
commissions giving specific feedback to

1262
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:43,360
specific members of the commission.
That's what the October 1st meeting is

1263
01:41:41,040 --> 01:41:46,719
for the regulations. This is really just
to kind of hear from folks, see what

1264
01:41:46,239 --> 01:41:50,560
they're working on.
>> The draft that you have of the email to

1265
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:53,840
send out was great. I thought it just
sets the tone of what it's going to be

1266
01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:57,840
like and what the expectations should be
for people coming. So I think as we get

1267
01:41:55,600 --> 01:42:00,560
more information out there it'll be I'll
put all of

1268
01:41:58,719 --> 01:42:03,920
» it's a general public invite.
>> Of course it's a public meeting. It's

1269
01:42:02,719 --> 01:42:07,760
the intent of
>> the surf club.

1270
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:12,239
» Yes. The public can attend. It is not
meant to be a a public interact.

1271
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:17,040
It's
>> okay. So that makes sense.

1272
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:20,960
» It's a meeting designed to allow for
various committee members to interact

1273
01:42:19,119 --> 01:42:24,320
and and have conversation.
>> Okay.

1274
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:29,679
» Um that's that's the intent.
Great. Thanks. I have a motion to

1275
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:32,400
adjurnn. I'll make a motion. [laughter]
Got a second, third, fourth, and fifth.

1276
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:36,960
Anybody's got it all in
>> favor

1277
01:42:34,480 --> 01:42:42,000
at 8:40.
>> Yeah.

1278
01:42:38,480 --> 01:42:50,960
» Thanks, Janet. Thank you. Sorry, I
ditched last minute there. Sorry.

1279
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:50,960
» Yeah. Thank you for explaining.