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We're

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going to go ahead and get started with this Board of County Commissioners meeting, September 22nd,

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2026. That's one of everybody who be mindful, like I just heard. Go ahead and silence your funds. Be respectful

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the people sit next to you, definitely when we get to the portions of the agenda where the

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public comes up and speaks at the two podiums. Troy, well I'm sorry, Tom, I don't know if it's

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a different person today. Tom will be navigating that for everyone in the room and when the time

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comes, we have extremely large crowd today. I assume everybody hears to participate in somebody

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agenda items. And remember, you have a timer, you're given three minutes. You get a 30 second

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morning, and when the red light goes off, here's the second deep that means you're

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times up for sake of moving this forward and moving quickly and efficiently. I hope

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everybody to mind their time and to keep track of that. This is not a Michigan or

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Western Michigan game where they add seconds to the end of the game. So we think 10.

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All right, but yeah, so we're going to get started County Managed.

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Yes, good morning.

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Let's we will be starting with the invocation by Pastor David Wildman, grow church

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states followed by the pledge of allegiance led by Lou Casanova, U.S. Navy, who served

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aboard the USS Hank, DD-702 from 1965 to 1971.

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Good morning, let's play.

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Heavenly Father, thank you for bringing us together here today for the opportunity to serve the people of

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Colleague County. We're grateful for this community and for the many blessings that you've given us and

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Lord, I lift up our commissioners and all those who serve this country, give them wisdom, patience,

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and good judgment as they consider the decisions before them. Help them work together with respect

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and integrity, always keep in the well-being of our community in mind. Your word tells us in

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First Timothy 2-2 to pray for those in authority, so that we may live peaceful and quiet lives.

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So today we pray for wisdom for our leaders and for decisions that will bring peace, prosperity and opportunity to call your county.

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We also pray for all of our county employees and their families, bless them, protect them and give them strength that they serve our community each day.

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We lift up our first responders and their families and our military personnel serving across the country and around the world.

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Protect them, give them courage and strength and bring them home safely.

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And also, as we enter this election season, Lord, we pray that citizens will be engaged, informed, and willing to take part in the process.

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May our elections conduct it with integrity and make those who are like that serve with wisdom and a heart for the people.

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And finally, Lord, give these discussions and decisions made here today.

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Guide them with your word and your spirit.

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And give everyone in this room humility with them and in genuine desire to serve others.

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May everything we do today contribute to the peace, prosperity, and well-being of

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Collier County.

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And we ask all these things in the precious name of Jesus, amen.

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You must have been very popular in a way that you stuck out like a sore thumb, my friend.

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That life is behind me.

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And my wife says right behind me.

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But I want to thank the commissioners for honoring veterans and the people that serve in the armed forces, the men and women who put their lives in the line every day.

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So we can all be here. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Commissioners, Agenda Changes for September 26, 2026, we have first up moved item 16D9 to 11F.

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This is a recommendation to approve and authorize the chair to assign the low-income pool

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letter of agreement with the agency for health care administration in the amount not to exceed

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$4 million, $8,319 to participate in the Medicaid Central Receiving Facility Low-Income

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pool program generating 4,984,933 dollars in federal matching funds for the benefit of David Lawrence

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Mental Health Center, be approved in additional 223,649 dollars in general fund support

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C. Sign the required provider questionnaire to assist in meeting the state required match

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obligation and the authorizes necessary budget amendments. This item is being moved at Commissioner

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calls request. We have an add-on item 10A. This is a recommendation to direct the county attorney

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to advertise an ordinance establishing limitations on the use of county funds and county

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owned or county controlled property for automated license plate recognition cameras providing

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for permitted and prohibited camera functions requiring compliance certification providing for

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municipal participation by opt-in providing for administration and enforcement and providing

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for applicability and an effective date.

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This is brought to the agenda at Commissioner Saunders request.

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We do have court and court and court break scheduled for 1030 and again at 250 with that

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county attorney.

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Nothing.

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Thank you.

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Commissioner Saunders.

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I have no additions to the agenda in terms of ex-part day.

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I think we probably all have a little bit of that this time.

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On the summary agenda,

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notice disclosure on 17c.

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Sorry, I don't have any disclosure in the consent agenda.

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Mr. Hall.

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Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

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I have no changes to the agenda.

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I do have meetings on 17c.

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Mr. McCaster.

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No changes.

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I also have meetings on 17c.

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Mr. McDaniel.

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Good morning.

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No changes and no expertise. I also have no changes, and I have no expertise on 17c. So with that said, get a motion, I'll move second motion a second all favors in the five by saying aye.

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I opposed the same sound same side. All right.

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Very good that brings us right to awards and recognitions item three. We're going to start with item three A1, our 20 year attendees. First up, we have David Laterno building plan review and instruction 20 years. Congratulations.

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Thank you.

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Uh-huh.

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Yeah.

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I guess it's a more important thing.

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Okay, I can appreciate it.

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Thank you very much.

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You got your Rolex box watching the mail yesterday.

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I don't think I got that.

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I get lost sometimes.

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I get lost sometimes.

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I get lost sometimes.

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Yeah.

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New York City time box.

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The following goal.

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Thank you.

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Next up we have Josie Turgau, Facilities Management 20 years.

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Congratulations.

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Thanks for having me.

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Thank you.

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How many years?

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Four years.

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Four years.

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Four years of student program.

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The interns.

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You have worked for me?

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You have worked for me?

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You have worked for me?

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Thank you.

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Melee Campbell, Parks & Recreation, 20 years.

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Congratulations.

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Well done.

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Thank you.

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You're all done.

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Moving on to 25 years attendees, Gregory Garcia, Transportation Engineering, Congratulations.

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There for us. I knew I'd like this guy. Yeah. Yeah, congratulations.

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Oh, you do. Oh, yes

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Johnnie Desenor, Utilities Finance Operations 25 years, congratulations.

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All right, moving on to 30 years, we have 130 year attendee, Mario Garcia, wastewater, congratulations.

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I don't know.

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Now we know where there's somebody in.

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The problem is you're going to get a haircut back here.

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And now.

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Group.

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Commission's efforts as to proclamations.

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Item 4A is a proclamation designating October 7th, 2026 as a day of remembrance and recognition

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of the formation of the solidarity with Israel coalition to be accepted by Richard Hoffman,

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Chairman, and Linda Blackman President's solidarity with Israel coalition.

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Congratulations.

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Thank you.

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No swag for the event.

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What do you got?

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Thanks for being here.

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Congratulations.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thanks for being here.

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Good

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morning,

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Commissioners.

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And Chairman, thank you for recognizing October 7th as a day of remembrance to respect

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the honor to reflect and honor the memory of the innocent civilians who were brutally attacked

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by Hamas.

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On October 7, Hamas, a terrorist organization committed unspeakable savagery against innocent

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and defenseless people.

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They led an in-humane and unprovoked attack from the Gaza Strip into Israel, killed more

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and 1200 Israelis and foreign nationals, including 46 U.S. citizens, and took 251

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hostages.

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The Islamic terrorists, who committed these acts, told us over and over again that they

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would do the same thing until Israel and America was destroyed.

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Jewish people wiped out a non-believers' force to face death or conversion.

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their intent is to destroy Western civilization and to replace it with a global

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caliphate to rule the world under Shira Law. Outrage of these events, a group of

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individuals, or I should say interfaith individuals, from Cali County, from

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solidarity with Israel coalition, to bring together people of all faiths,

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to

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of life. This proclamation reaffirms Cali County and Florida's steadfast support for Israel

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and condemns those who support Hamas and similar terrorist groups and recognizes the

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formation of solidarity with Israel coalition. It's an honor to receive this proclamation. Thank you

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very much. Welcome.

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Item 4B is a proclamation designating October

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420-26 as breast cancer awareness month in Calier County to be accepted by Nikki Audia,

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director of philanthropy and community engagement, Naples Cancer Advisors.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Thank you.

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Thank you again so much for honoring the breast cancer survivors and warriors.

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Today's proclamation is not about a signature, it's about people, our community, it's about

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women, children, your wife, your co-workers, it's about action, it's about a reminder

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to have the conversation with your provider, making yourself a priority, recognizing your

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body, and helping each other to remember to go and get scanned. Prevention is key.

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Today, this proclamation is a testament that you support those who are battling cancer, breast cancer, and those who we have lost.

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Thank you so very much for recognizing October and Call Your County as breast cancer awareness month.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you.

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Item 4C is a proclamation designating September 19th through the 27th, 2026 as national estuaries week to be accepted by T.J. Snopkowski, executive director, friends of Rekrie Bay. Congratulations.

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Thank you, thank you, thank you guys so much.

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Thanks for it, it you guys do.

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Thank you, thank you, thank

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you.

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TJ, would you like to thank you?

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Thank you, whoever you choose.

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You're going to be great.

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Commissioner, I want to thank you all for this

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Proximations.

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And I also want to thank Commissioner La Castro

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for sponsoring our quest for it.

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Estuaries like those found in Recreday

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are known as the Nurseries of the Sea,

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because 80% of marine life begins in them.

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and all species rely on them for food.

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Separate from their roles as fisheries,

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Esturaries provide crucial ecosystem services

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for the communities that surround them

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and in our unique case for the entire state and country.

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Recovery Bay is over 110,000 acres,

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over 40% of Calier County's coastline.

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The Recovery Bay National Estuary Research Reserve

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is one of just 30 in the United States

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and arguably the most important given our location

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in the Western Everglades region.

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our countries, most prized ecosystem.

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At a local scale,

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Mercury Bayes, Southwest Florida,

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Mercury Bayes,

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Southwest Florida's most important resource

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with our waters, scrub habitat,

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and pine uplands stretching from the Gordon River

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to Everglades National Park.

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We're home to the largest,

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continuous mangrove forest in North America,

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which is critical for biodiversity,

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regional hurricane impact mitigation,

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carbon sequestration,

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as well as the air and water quality

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that drives the economy of Southwest Florida

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and our county as a whole.

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If you live in or travel to Naples,

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you can thank the work happening in Recre Bay

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for this beautiful place.

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National S2aries Week is about recognizing

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these critical spaces and working to protect them.

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So I urge all of you to please come out

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to our Learning Center, our Environmental Learning Center

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at 300 Tower Road in Naples.

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We are close for maintenance until October 1st.

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So come out next week.

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You can also head to Recre Bay.org and just follow us

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on social media at Friends of Recre Bay

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to learn more about how you can get involved

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and the work you can take to help protect the beautiful place.

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Thank you all so much.

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Thank you.

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You need a motion to approve these proclamations.

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So move.

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Just a second.

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A motion.

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A second.

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All favors signify by saying aye.

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Opposed.

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Same sound.

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Proclamations are approved.

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Thank you.

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Commissioners, that brings us to item seven public comments on general topics.

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Not on the current or future agenda.

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Mr. Paul.

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Good sir.

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Mr. Chair.

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We have four registered speakers, three in the room, one on Zoom.

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We will begin with Karen Wager.

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Sorry,

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you are, man.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning, commissioners.

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I'm talking today about kindness to one another.

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My name is Khoran Wager, retired combat veteran, proud Jewish Zionist, and a member of the

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Pickle Wish on E. Tribe.

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I've seen many faces of humanity throughout my 14 and a half years of military service

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and travel to over 22 countries. I've seen such extraordinary strengths, courage and humility.

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This has helped shape my perception of life to see struggles as an opportunity to grow and persevere.

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I want to increase awareness and volunteering with existing programs that combat homelessness,

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starvation, family struggling to make ends meet, helping your fellow neighbors,

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and increasing funds for halfway homes for those who struggle with drugs and alcohol,

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individuals release some jail and prison.

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As human beings, we each struggle with something in our life.

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How many of us have seen somebody on the street and looked down at them, snubbed our nose at

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someone in the way they smell.

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How many of us just want those individuals to disappear?

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How many of us struggle to see beyond our own shortfalls?

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Each of us individuals is somebody special and somebody's everything.

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They are not invisible to the one who created them.

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Their tears are counted.

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Their value in their worth is immeasurable.

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I want to see more involvement from Call of County Commissioners

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to create more soup kitchens, pop up food trucks,

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innovative transition housing and showers,

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tiny homes and trailers,

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set up as temporary housing with an existing footprint

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without disturbing more green space.

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You can pick up the hotbed motel and turn that

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into traditional housing instead of its current use.

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There are so many ways that you can get involved

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into random acts of kindness and connect

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and help improve someone's life.

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provide a meal, pay for someone's groceries, pay for a coffee, help a neighbor with a project

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support and thank your local emergency responders, fire, police, EMS dispatchers.

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Support animal shelters volunteer at a better women's shelter and men's shelter.

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Project help rape crisis center, homeless shelter, volunteered the hairy chap and food bank.

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It would temple Shalom, assisting with after-school programs, creating fun activities and nursing

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homes and patients in hospital, volunteering with environmental groups, community guarding community

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dance in the park, yoga in the park, community, picnics, neighborhood clean-up blocks, supporting

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your local businesses, reading, buddy for seniors, coordinating events at nursing homes and

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hospitals, mentoring and tutor students and organizing disaster relief groups. Be willing to

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step outside of your comfort zone and talk to people and pay attention to find ways to connect

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and make someone's life a little easier. I challenge each of you college county commissioners

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to do a random act of kindness a week and to all my fellow college county residents, the same

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challenge goes to you as well. I want call your county to be known for our random acts of

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kindness, environmental stewardship and fostering community outreach. Be the change that you want to

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see. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if I might just before she leaves,

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Because before you leave, I want to make a comment, first of all, you're an inspiration and I want to thank you for your presentations and I hope.

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If you keep coming here and making those presentations, I know I'm meeting with you. I think in a few weeks, concerning some access issues, but your message has always been very positive and your attitude has always been very positive.

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I just want to thank you for that.

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You're here for us. That's fine, right?

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Yes, yes, yes.

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Mr. Chair, your next registered speaker is Lisa Drungle.

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Good morning.

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I'm here today to express my serious concern regarding the lack of street lighting at the intersection of Vanderbilt Beach Road and Windamare trails.

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Windamare trails is the South entrance to Valencia trails, a 55-plus community of approximately 1600 residents.

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At night, this intersection is extremely dark, difficult to identify and a significant safety

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concern.

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I contacted Collier County to learn why lighting was emitted from this intersection.

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Marlene Messam, supervisor and project manager with the county's transportation engineering

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department, explained that the Windermere Trail's intersection was introduced much later

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in the design of the Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension. When the corridor plans were already

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approximately 90 to 100% complete. She explained that adding street lighting at that stage would

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have required significant redesign. Those changes would have been costly and could have delayed

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the project. The road project moved forward, but the safety issue was left behind. I have requested

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copies of approved plans, permits, photometric studies, staff review, comments, and other

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records relating to this connection point.

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I have not yet received them.

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Those documents are important because they should show how the intersection was approved,

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whether its nighttime visibility was evaluated, and who was assigned responsibility for providing

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appropriate lighting.

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Because of the seriousness of this issue, I contacted Wink News, their reporter, Jillian

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Haggerty, visited the location and interviewed me.

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Wink aired the story last Tuesday evening.

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Clearly showing the intersection in nearly complete darkness and highlighting the legitimate

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safety concern.

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We should not have to wait for a serious collision or injury before the county takes action.

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00:32:56,290 --> 00:33:03,950
My questions to you are these. How does Collier County justify approving and completing this

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connection without addressing nighttime visibility? Who was responsible for ensuring that

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the intersection was safe when it opened? And most importantly, what will the county do now

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to correct the problem? I respectfully ask the commissioners to direct county staff to conduct a

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time safety assessment, produce the relevant plans and approved records and return with a specific

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plan in timetable for installing adequate lighting and signage. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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You are next registered speaker is Jackie K.

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Good morning. Good morning everyone.

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00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,240
I want to say

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00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,460
good morning to the crowd. You all look fabulous into the commissioners. You all look

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especially dashing today.

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And no, I'm not asking for anything.

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This is my time.

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This is for that introduction.

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This might be a good time.

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00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:17,440
Well, I want the world.

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00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,960
Can you give that to me?

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00:34:19,220 --> 00:34:19,460
Oh, no.

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It's yours.

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00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:21,920
Thank you.

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00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:23,380
I shall take it.

355
00:34:23,820 --> 00:34:28,880
So I watched original Terminator almost back in 1984.

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So I'm going to be telling my age.

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So I am swearing you all to see pursue, OK?

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So, that was almost 43 years ago when I was in freshman in high school.

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Here's the plot.

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So in 2029, an AI defense system named SkyNet gained self-awareness, to view humans as

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a threat, and triggered a nuclear holocaust known as Judgement Day.

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SkyNet sent a killer robot that is Arnold one of my favorites, back in time to 1984 to assassinate

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John Conner's mother as he was the leader of the human resistance.

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John in turn sends a loyal soldier to find and protect his mother.

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00:35:13,140 --> 00:35:15,360
Here's some key takeaways from that movie.

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The unchecked advancement of AI can lead to our destruction.

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Number one, our destiny and survival are in our hands.

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Number two, and a lack of empathy will lead to all of our destruction.

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Number three.

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Likewise, the Oliagarch's billionaires are a great threat to our democracy, constitutional freedom and lives.

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Billionaires and tech CEOs such as Peter Teele, Elon Musk, in Mark Andreson,

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00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:53,080
plantey use AI data centers, flock cameras, drones, and robots to create a

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digital and physical concentration camp, and enslave everyone that is not

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a centimillionaire or a billionaire. These fascists are great, greatly influenced by

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00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:13,780
anti-democratic philosopher Curtis Yarvan, please look him up. Who believes a country should be

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run by an all-powerful executive slash monarch with absolute power and authority.

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They plan to demolish our democracy, establish techno-heutelism, and institute a corporate run

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authoritarian order in which the billionaires will control digital platforms.

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social media and network states in economic zones as actual landlords.

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They will subjugate the working class and determine who lives and die via a prescribed

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purge. As AI and robots will render us obsolete in a financial burden.

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So, it doesn't matter what political background you come from the color

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00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:09,460
you skin your language, your position in life unless you're worth hundreds of millions or billions

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00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:16,680
of dollars you are seen as a financial and social burden to the billionaires. So we have to work

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together and help each other. Thank you all. Thank you.

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Mr. Chair, our next registered speaker joins us

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Gloria Martin, Gloria, you should...

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00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,220
We'd be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

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Gloria Martin,

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00:37:38,770 --> 00:37:44,290
going once, going twice. We are not getting it on mute from Gloria. That's our last speaker here.

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00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:53,130
All right. Well, thank you, Tom. We're going to go ahead and close the public speaking second of the items that are not on the agenda.

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And we'll go ahead and move on to the next item one list.

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00:37:57,350 --> 00:38:00,850
Yes, sir, that brings us to item 9 advertised public hearings.

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We're going to begin with item companion items 9A and 9B.

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9A is a organization to consider approval of an ordinance of the Board of County Commissioners

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00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:15,090
amending the Coyote County Growth Management Plan to create the fairways in commercial

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sub-district to allow an expansion of the existing fairways in by 30 suites to the North

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on a property described as Palmer River State's units unit 1,

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00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:29,570
lots 3.97, 3.98, 405 and 406.

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The subject property is 2.63 plus minus acres and located

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00:38:34,090 --> 00:38:38,890
on the north side of Piper Boulevard, West of Palm River Boulevard,

402
00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:42,570
in Section 23, Township 48, South Range 25 East,

403
00:38:42,570 --> 00:38:43,650
Call Your County Florida.

404
00:38:44,110 --> 00:38:49,230
It's companion item 9B is a recommendation to approve

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00:38:49,230 --> 00:38:54,190
ordinance resounding real property from a residential single family three zoning district

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00:38:54,190 --> 00:38:59,210
and a residential tourist zoning district to a commercial planned unit development zoning

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00:38:59,210 --> 00:39:03,890
district for the project to be known as the fairways in commercial planned unit development

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00:39:03,890 --> 00:39:09,410
to allow the development of a hotel or motel with up to 76 rooms. The subject property

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00:39:09,410 --> 00:39:15,110
consisting of 2.63 plus minus acres is located on the north side of Piper Boulevard west of

410
00:39:15,110 --> 00:39:18,610
on River Boulevard, in Section 23, Township 48, South,

411
00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:20,950
Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.

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00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:23,710
With that, we'll do X-partite disclosure

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and then the swearing in of all the speakers.

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Yes, Commissioner Saunders.

415
00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:29,830
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:32,730
I do have meetings in the correspondence concerning

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this item.

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00:39:35,250 --> 00:39:35,750
Mr. Hall.

419
00:39:37,390 --> 00:39:40,070
Mr. Chairman, I have meetings, correspondence e-mails and calls.

420
00:39:41,070 --> 00:39:41,810
I'm going to show a classroom.

421
00:39:41,810 --> 00:39:48,730
meeting's correspondence and emails, Mr. McDaniel, on on 9B I have the same meeting

422
00:39:48,730 --> 00:39:53,810
C-mails and calls, and I also have meetings e-mails and calls.

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00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:59,570
With that, I'll participate, please stand up to be sworn in by the court reporter that

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includes anybody that is going to be providing a public speaking or a four-tested money.

425
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A very good.

426
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We are going to begin with the applicant if they want to come to the podium.

427
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:40,640
Good morning. Good morning, commissioners. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to

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00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:47,020
speak with you about the fairways in and our requests to expand the property. My name

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00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:54,240
is Steven Merowitz, owner of the fairways in and this is my slide director, my wife and

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00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:57,020
also partner and owner of the fairways in.

431
00:41:00,060 --> 00:41:03,960
The presentation is about 10 minutes long, 22 slides

432
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:13,060
And if you have any questions or comments or need further explanation, feel free to interrupt me, and then perhaps I can resume.

433
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,460
I want to start by putting this presentation in perspective.

434
00:41:18,340 --> 00:41:22,460
The fear ways in has been part of the Naples area for 60 years.

435
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:31,440
What we are proposing is to allow a long-standing, calyre county business to evolve while preserving what is made at successful.

436
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:38,900
Today, I want to explain the history of the property, what we are proposing, and why we believe

437
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:43,940
the expansion is appropriate for this location and beneficial to the community.

438
00:41:47,540 --> 00:41:49,520
I'd like to go back to where this began.

439
00:41:50,540 --> 00:41:55,540
This aerial photograph gives you a sense of just how different the aerial look when the

440
00:41:55,540 --> 00:41:56,900
fairways in was established.

441
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,540
The important point is that the fairways in did not come into an established residential

442
00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:08,420
neighborhood and try and change it. The end has been here for decades and the surrounding

443
00:42:08,420 --> 00:42:14,720
area has developed and changed around it. So when we talk about the future of the property,

444
00:42:14,860 --> 00:42:19,700
we're talking about the evolution of a property that has been here for generations.

445
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:33,480
This aerial shows the relationship between the properties. The blue buildings are the existing

446
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:40,720
room expansion and the orange homes will remain residential and importantly will provide a buffer

447
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:45,760
between the proposed development and the other residential properties to the north.

448
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:54,060
The number show how long we've owned each property. As you can see it's been a long term ownership pattern,

449
00:42:54,580 --> 00:43:01,000
not something recently assembled for this application or merely put under contract with various

450
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,800
sellers for this application.

451
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:08,250
Now I'd like to show you what we're actually proposing.

452
00:43:09,010 --> 00:43:14,090
We have spent considerable time looking at how the building will appear from the surrounding area.

453
00:43:14,850 --> 00:43:22,090
The goal is for this to look like an appropriate palm river property, not something that feels out of place in this location.

454
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:30,160
These renderings give you a much better idea of what the finished project will actually look like.

455
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:36,500
The design incorporates landscaping and architectural elements associated with the existing

456
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:37,760
fairways in.

457
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:43,080
We want the new construction to feel like an extension of the property, not a completely

458
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,140
different property.

459
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:53,100
What are the important benefits of this layout is how it affects the movement of our guests.

460
00:43:53,860 --> 00:43:59,440
The proposed addition is connected to the existing motel, so guests are naturally oriented

461
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,040
toward the center of the property.

462
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:07,860
They are not coming and going at multiple points around the perimeter of the 2.5-acre site.

463
00:44:08,660 --> 00:44:18,040
In other words, we're concentrating pedestrian activity within the property, rather than dispersing it along the boundaries next to the residential area.

464
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:25,640
That is an important distinction when you're looking at the relationship between the expanded motel and the neighboring homes.

465
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,900
The entire property will have a strong landscape buffer perimeter.

466
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,360
This photograph represents something that doesn't show up on a site plan.

467
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:42,800
Our commitment to this property.

468
00:44:43,540 --> 00:44:48,580
Since 1998, we've operated the fairways in as owner operators.

469
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:52,780
We have not treated it as a short-term real estate investment.

470
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:58,620
We put time, money, effort into maintaining and improving the property.

471
00:44:58,620 --> 00:44:59,980
and we believe there is

472
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:09,220
This is a difference between someone trying to maximize a short term gain and an owner who has spent decades operating a business and being part of the community.

473
00:45:13,260 --> 00:45:23,540
One thing we have tried to, one of the things we have tried to do is preserve the character of the fairways in, while still giving guests the standard that they expect today.

474
00:45:23,540 --> 00:45:30,620
We're not trying to turn the fairways in into a generic modern hotel, we're trying to preserve its identity,

475
00:45:31,060 --> 00:45:35,440
while making sure the property remains competitive and attractive to visitors.

476
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,580
The same philosophy applies outside.

477
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:45,880
The landscaping and outdoor areas are a very significant part of what makes the fairways in different.

478
00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:50,980
We believe there is real value in maintaining this old Florida atmosphere.

479
00:45:50,980 --> 00:45:57,880
It gives visitors an experience that is very different from staying in a conventional large-scale hotel.

480
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,220
This character is something we intend to preserve as we expand.

481
00:46:05,390 --> 00:46:11,350
The Fairways in also serves purposes that go beyond ordinary overnight lodging.

482
00:46:12,010 --> 00:46:18,850
We have accommodated people during difficult periods, including disaster-related, related housing needs.

483
00:46:18,850 --> 00:46:25,510
We provided lodging for people connected with the local hospital that require extended stays.

484
00:46:26,970 --> 00:46:31,890
And we've been part of local family gatherings, celebrations and weddings.

485
00:46:33,150 --> 00:46:37,670
So when we talk about adding rooms, we're not simply talking about adding inventory.

486
00:46:38,270 --> 00:46:45,050
We're adding capacity to a business that has already served a variety of needs in the community.

487
00:46:47,060 --> 00:46:56,000
Why do we need? Or one to expand? The answer is demand. The fairways in consistently operates

488
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:03,680
at very strong occupancy levels and our guest reviews demonstrate that people value what we are offering.

489
00:47:04,660 --> 00:47:13,440
We have repeat guests who come back year after year. That tells us something that a single occupancy number does not.

490
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:19,940
There is an established demand for this type of lodging experience in the Calier County area.

491
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:25,560
I also want to address safety and compliance directly.

492
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,460
We take these issues very seriously.

493
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:39,120
As long-term owner operators are objective is to provide a safe environment for our guests, our employees, and the surrounding community.

494
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:46,120
We have worked with the fire district and other authorities to address concerns and make sure

495
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,440
that our operations comply with applicable requirements.

496
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,020
I don't want to minimize any safety concern.

497
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:58,340
If there is an issue, we want to know about it, address it, and correct it.

498
00:48:00,410 --> 00:48:04,210
Another thing that distinguishes the fear ways in is our employees.

499
00:48:05,470 --> 00:48:07,250
Hospitality is a people business.

500
00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:13,390
The experience our guests have is heavily influenced by the people who work here.

501
00:48:13,970 --> 00:48:19,010
We've been fortunate to have employees who stay with us for long periods of time.

502
00:48:19,490 --> 00:48:24,930
This creates something you can't simply buy, a deep knowledge of the property and a

503
00:48:24,930 --> 00:48:27,130
relationship with returning guests.

504
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:33,390
We believe the expansion will allow us to continue building that workforce and position

505
00:48:33,390 --> 00:48:37,770
the fairways to retain quality staff, long into the future.

506
00:48:40,020 --> 00:48:41,600
I think there is a larger community

507
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:49,120
issue here as well. How your county needs places for people who work in the area to stay that

508
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:56,500
often involve people of skilled trades. So lodging isn't an isolated business focused only on

509
00:48:56,500 --> 00:49:03,880
vacationers. It's part of a much larger economic system. Our goal is to add to that system in a

510
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:13,450
I want to address the neighbors' concerns directly because I believe that is important to this board.

511
00:49:14,830 --> 00:49:21,850
There is a difference between a perception about a property and what the documented history actually shows.

512
00:49:23,090 --> 00:49:31,470
We've heard concerns about kitchens and associated fire issues, flooding, 911 calls, and other matters.

513
00:49:31,470 --> 00:49:39,650
We believe those concerns should be evaluated based upon the actual record and the applicable regulations.

514
00:49:41,090 --> 00:49:43,930
We aren't asking the board to ignore concerns.

515
00:49:44,550 --> 00:49:50,450
We're asking that the decision be based on facts and the requirements that apply to this property.

516
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,920
If I could reduce our case to three things, it would be these.

517
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,960
First, history.

518
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:05,580
Fairways in has been here since 1966 and has become part of the fabric of this area.

519
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,640
Second, operations.

520
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,960
We have demonstrated over many years that we can operate the property successfully, maintain

521
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,620
it, and provide high quality experiences for our guests.

522
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:25,480
And third, the economic side, we are providing lodging, employment, and support for the

523
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:31,940
economy. These three things are the foundation of why I believe the expansion is appropriate.

524
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:42,660
Ultimately, this comes down to whether a property that has successfully operated in the community

525
00:50:42,660 --> 00:50:49,360
for six decades should have the opportunity to evolve. We believe the expansion is the next

526
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:55,660
logical step, not simply because we want more rooms, but because the property and the market

527
00:50:55,660 --> 00:50:59,080
have reached a point where additional capacity makes sense.

528
00:50:59,660 --> 00:51:02,960
We're asking for the opportunity to continue what we've been doing

529
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,500
at a scale that makes sense for the future.

530
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:12,620
The uniqueness of the vintage design is something that is particularly important to us.

531
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,920
We are trying to preserve the character of the fairways in,

532
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,920
but not freeze the property in time.

533
00:51:22,300 --> 00:51:27,120
A successful community needs workers, and those of workers needs somewhere to stay.

534
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:36,380
By creating additional logic and capacity, we're contributing to a workforce that is an important part of the Collier County economy.

535
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:46,240
Our manager, who has worked at the Fairways 17 years grew up and has lived most of her life right here in Paul River,

536
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,680
talk about roots connected to the local community.

537
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:58,880
Strong consumer demand, quality guest experience, high repeat business defines the essence of the fairways.

538
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:07,120
A 30-year record of outstanding safety and security for guests and employees in the subdivision.

539
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,560
Commissioners, let me bring this back to the fundamental decision before you.

540
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:21,040
We believe we've earned the opportunity to take this next step to expand and to secure the future of the fairways in and

541
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:25,730
We would like your support in that endeavor. Thank you. Thank you

542
00:52:31,950 --> 00:52:38,830
Questions from the board at this time? Do we have a staff report on this?

543
00:52:39,210 --> 00:52:40,910
Mr. Bozzi is making his way

544
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:52,160
up.

545
00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:54,380
One board, Mike Bozzi, planning and zoning director.

546
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:05,060
Just to provide an overview of the project in terms of its hearing before the planning commission was heard on June 4.

547
00:53:05,060 --> 00:53:14,020
The Planning Commission recommended by a 6-2-0 margin of recommendation of denial to the board

548
00:53:14,020 --> 00:53:20,480
specifically related to concerns related to the fire in police report and as well as code enforcement

549
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:29,340
issues associated with the facilities and some of the kitchenette within the facility.

550
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:36,580
staff, going into the planning commission, had a recommendation of approval, one of the things

551
00:53:36,580 --> 00:53:42,320
that staff recognizes is you saw the individual single family homes that they own.

552
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:47,480
Those homes, and I know they're not utilized in this way, but those homes can be rented out

553
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:48,520
on a short-term basis.

554
00:53:49,420 --> 00:53:58,000
And we felt that the requests to convert those homes to the hotel proper or to a extension

555
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:05,440
of the hotel proper and have that intensity focused inward towards the interior of the

556
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,460
property instead of exterior of the property as it currently exists as single family homes

557
00:54:10,460 --> 00:54:17,520
was an overall benefit. Staff is still recommending a recommendation of approval but we do

558
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:25,840
have an additional condition that we are having cooperated with into the proposed PUD or the proposed

559
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:32,160
resolution that specific says if approved no further development orders will be issued for the

560
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:38,040
30-room hotel expansion until all failed inspections from the annual inspections of the existing hotel

561
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:55,440
by the North-Cuyre North-Cuyre fire district and the 2020 to the present date in the

562
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,220
countertops without a permit or fully resolved.

563
00:54:58,740 --> 00:55:03,720
Staff is concerned that there has been ongoing issues,

564
00:55:05,500 --> 00:55:08,820
relates to a fire district that is stretched over a year.

565
00:55:09,380 --> 00:55:14,460
And that type of time frame we think has been adequate

566
00:55:14,460 --> 00:55:16,460
for those issues to be resolved

567
00:55:16,460 --> 00:55:20,200
and before we would recommend the expansion to be able to move forward

568
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,780
would be that those issues all have to be satisfied

569
00:55:23,780 --> 00:55:28,220
in terms of addressing them all.

570
00:55:28,780 --> 00:55:33,360
In regards to the, in regards to the petition,

571
00:55:34,060 --> 00:55:36,600
we understand that there are some concerns from the neighborhoods

572
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,260
related to code enforcement.

573
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:44,800
We think based upon the existence of this property for 60 years

574
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,060
in this residential community.

575
00:55:47,340 --> 00:55:51,360
The residents have really grown up around this hotel.

576
00:55:51,360 --> 00:56:00,340
And one of the things that we'll not, even if this project is denied, those properties that are owned by the fairways in,

577
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:06,880
just the seven single family houses that they own, in addition to the hotel, they can all be utilized as short-term rentals.

578
00:56:06,980 --> 00:56:12,840
They could be part of this hotel, but not incorporate, not buffered, not shielded from the neighborhood.

579
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,140
And because of those concerns, we think it's an overall benefit through the neighborhood.

580
00:56:17,140 --> 00:56:24,880
If it was a brought into the hotel proper, so they could focus that intensity to the

581
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,960
interior of the property.

582
00:56:27,820 --> 00:56:30,460
So with that, any questions that you may have for staff?

583
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:31,760
Mr. McDonald.

584
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:34,320
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

585
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:35,460
Mr. Bozy.

586
00:56:35,660 --> 00:56:38,220
How many units are currently there?

587
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:39,000
46.

588
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:39,820
46.

589
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:42,100
A narrow expansion is an additional 30.

590
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:51,980
And what are the existing height limitations on the RT that they currently have for the

591
00:56:51,980 --> 00:56:52,900
Motel exists?

592
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:59,700
RT is a 75 feet right in, but the hotel is not developed to that height.

593
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,080
I understand that.

594
00:57:01,300 --> 00:57:02,040
That wasn't my question.

595
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,220
My question was what are the height limitations that are currently allowed on the side

596
00:57:06,220 --> 00:57:07,020
as it sits?

597
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,240
The RT's only district allows a 100 feet of height.

598
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:11,620
I'm sorry.

599
00:57:12,020 --> 00:57:13,140
That was my question.

600
00:57:14,020 --> 00:57:14,700
Thank you.

601
00:57:16,580 --> 00:57:17,240
Mr. Saunders.

602
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:18,660
Thank you.

603
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,500
Can you elaborate a little bit on the code violations, the fire issues?

604
00:57:24,020 --> 00:57:30,300
That was one of the major points brought up for the recommendation of the Nile by the Planning Board.

605
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,720
And I'm curious because you mentioned countertops.

606
00:57:34,180 --> 00:57:40,180
It made it sound like all these violations relate to work dealing with countertops.

607
00:57:40,180 --> 00:57:52,140
So, give me some more detail on code violations issues with the fire department, any other regulatory issues and the history of that.

608
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:58,480
The code violation for the growth management was related to the countertops.

609
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:09,540
The kitchenettes in terms of the stoves and the venting systems that are associated with it were the issues that were associated with the fire department.

610
00:58:09,540 --> 00:58:16,900
And those have been ongoing, like I said, it's been over a year that those issues have been outstanding.

611
00:58:17,460 --> 00:58:21,640
I know that the owner is working with the fire district to come into compliance,

612
00:58:22,660 --> 00:58:26,640
but they are still issues that have not been addressed.

613
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,000
Say that the owner is working to come into compliance.

614
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,700
But it's been over a year and it deals with the kitchenettes.

615
00:58:35,700 --> 00:58:39,500
I'm not sure why I would take a year to do that, is there's some particular reason?

616
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:52,140
And I guess the reason I'm asking this is just in terms of timing, should this petition be heard once those code issues and fire issues have been resolved?

617
00:58:52,540 --> 00:58:58,080
I realize that that's somewhat unrelated to the actual construction issue here.

618
00:58:58,660 --> 00:59:01,460
But if we have a knowner that's not in compliance,

619
00:59:03,220 --> 00:59:09,940
It seems to me that we shouldn't consider these applications potentially into question until those issues are resolved.

620
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:15,680
And I think that would be a procedural due process question that we could explore a little bit more with the kind of attorney's office.

621
00:59:15,860 --> 00:59:20,420
But I don't believe that that prohibits them from asking for the expansion.

622
00:59:20,420 --> 00:59:37,440
And that's why staff is suggesting a condition if we were to find the recommend or to approve this that we would not allow for the expansion of the 30 additional units and to all the code issues and all the fire issues have been addressed.

623
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:48,020
You can, if you wish, just put this over for a time, it takes them to get into compliance.

624
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,160
That's within your cognitive.

625
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:54,420
That's what I would have to send.

626
00:59:54,460 --> 00:59:56,060
That wasn't too word about due process.

627
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,160
I was just worried about getting compliance.

628
00:59:59,160 --> 00:59:59,860
So I appreciate that.

629
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:22,060
That's all I have for right now. I'm just want to plant the seed with the board. Is this the right timing? Maybe it is, but I feel a little uncomfortable proceeding with an expansion of a project while there are code violations of fire violations out there.

630
01:00:22,060 --> 01:00:28,220
I'm not suggesting that it's the basis for a denial necessarily, but it may be, but I'm

631
01:00:28,220 --> 01:00:31,880
not suggesting that this thing in terms of timing.

632
01:00:34,370 --> 01:00:34,670
Thank you.

633
01:00:34,830 --> 01:00:34,970
Thank you.

634
01:00:35,570 --> 01:00:36,210
Thank you, Chairman.

635
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:38,450
You know, Mr. Bosing a couple of questions for you.

636
01:00:38,790 --> 01:00:41,650
First of the applicant, I just wanted to say you and I met on August 24th.

637
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:43,650
You get me up the speed on this.

638
01:00:44,430 --> 01:00:47,630
And to just be quite frank, you know, we went back and forth.

639
01:00:47,890 --> 01:00:48,790
I had a million questions.

640
01:00:49,010 --> 01:00:51,050
You had a million slides in front of you.

641
01:00:51,050 --> 01:00:54,590
And I gave you a few pieces of advice to be ready in here.

642
01:00:55,110 --> 01:00:58,030
This is exactly the kind of presentation that I was talking about.

643
01:00:58,210 --> 01:01:04,130
I'm not saying it makes it a approval, but to give us a good overview and cover everything

644
01:01:04,130 --> 01:01:07,630
in a very eloquent way as we were talking and it's a little different when you're in our

645
01:01:07,630 --> 01:01:07,910
offices.

646
01:01:08,190 --> 01:01:09,530
I want that when you come in here.

647
01:01:10,230 --> 01:01:15,450
This was a huge improvement to at least fill in some blanks for me, so I'm obviously put

648
01:01:15,450 --> 01:01:16,830
some time into it.

649
01:01:16,830 --> 01:01:21,030
And we appreciate that because to make a decision, we want both sides to be

650
01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:23,870
able to have the best presentation possible.

651
01:01:24,330 --> 01:01:28,750
Having said that, Mr. Vosie, a couple of questions that I just wrote down for you to piggyback

652
01:01:28,750 --> 01:01:35,030
off of Commissioner Saunders, I wrote kind of a very similar thing, but I said these recommendations

653
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:40,350
by fire and other that are still hanging loose that need to be fixed.

654
01:01:40,810 --> 01:01:44,230
How big of a muscle movement slash investment would that be?

655
01:01:44,430 --> 01:01:49,150
I'm asking you to just sort of like, you know, average gas, you know, these big major things

656
01:01:49,150 --> 01:01:58,670
And I want some of this stuff to go on the record, too, so some of it, I got some of the answers here, but give me the short version as to, you know, the list that's still hanging out there.

657
01:01:58,790 --> 01:02:06,530
If we did delay this, you know, pushed off the, hey, you know, you need to be much closer to approval before we're going to consider it.

658
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:11,970
Well, how big of a muscle movement would this be in an investment? Are these big things?

659
01:02:11,970 --> 01:02:27,990
Well, as a planner, not as a building contractor of an engineer, I have a hard time in terms of quantifying from a numeric or a dollar perspective, but I don't believe that they are insurmountable.

660
01:02:28,250 --> 01:02:41,790
I think that they are simply of inspecting and ensuring that the construction of how those facilities were put in met the criteria that the fire district is looking for.

661
01:02:41,790 --> 01:02:51,550
I think it's really just aren't just working with the fire district and code enforcement to address these issues and for whatever reason the applicant has not taken the time to do that.

662
01:02:51,910 --> 01:02:54,630
Yeah, and you know, we see a lot of projects in here.

663
01:02:55,230 --> 01:03:00,790
That piece is standard, right? Usually they, you know, the applicant comes in here and those things are hit.

664
01:03:00,790 --> 01:03:07,030
And Surnas, sometimes I, to, there again, piggyback on a commissioner, Sonder, say, I don't

665
01:03:07,030 --> 01:03:11,750
necessarily hate the idea of saying, hey, get these things in order and then come back

666
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:16,570
here and we have a more complete, you know, a package, but then we run the risk of sort

667
01:03:16,570 --> 01:03:21,570
of sending the signal that, oh, if you have these things done, we're leaning towards approval.

668
01:03:21,690 --> 01:03:24,910
Well, I've got some other concerns, and I'm sure we're going to hear from public comments.

669
01:03:25,030 --> 01:03:30,250
So I don't want to give the impression that make the investment and then come in here and

670
01:03:30,250 --> 01:03:31,770
we still disapprove it.

671
01:03:32,290 --> 01:03:34,330
But you know, coming in here is risky.

672
01:03:34,550 --> 01:03:39,050
There's people that spend millions on architects and design

673
01:03:39,050 --> 01:03:40,710
and all kinds of things to come in here

674
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:41,970
and get something to improve.

675
01:03:42,410 --> 01:03:45,290
So if it's something you really bad, it takes investment.

676
01:03:45,470 --> 01:03:47,930
And if these aren't multimillion dollar things,

677
01:03:48,110 --> 01:03:50,470
it could give you a better chance to come in here

678
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:51,610
and at least make a presentation.

679
01:03:51,930 --> 01:03:53,350
This doesn't have as many loose ends.

680
01:03:53,730 --> 01:03:58,170
But I caution that if we kind of say that,

681
01:03:58,250 --> 01:04:00,050
and I don't think that's what Commissioner Saunders

682
01:04:00,050 --> 01:04:05,350
is implying, but I think the implication is come back here with these things, there's less

683
01:04:05,350 --> 01:04:09,070
moving parts, and you got a better chance of approval, and you might, but also to

684
01:04:09,070 --> 01:04:10,810
you're taking a risk of that investment.

685
01:04:12,750 --> 01:04:17,890
The change in the growth management plan, you know, we have many projects that come

686
01:04:17,890 --> 01:04:24,430
before us that, you know, there's some sort of request to change a growth management plan.

687
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:29,450
A lot of times, civilians or citizens don't realize is they come in many different weights

688
01:04:29,450 --> 01:04:32,610
and changes, sometimes the changes is very small,

689
01:04:32,830 --> 01:04:36,390
yet we'll get a thousand hundreds of emails from people saying

690
01:04:36,390 --> 01:04:38,410
you should never change the growth management plan

691
01:04:38,410 --> 01:04:40,690
and then the reality is the neighborhood they live in,

692
01:04:40,690 --> 01:04:43,110
it was changed significantly to build their house.

693
01:04:44,050 --> 01:04:45,670
So, you know, but that's a whole another story,

694
01:04:46,330 --> 01:04:49,090
but it does, the growth management plan is a document

695
01:04:49,090 --> 01:04:53,910
that the applicant has the legal right to request the change.

696
01:04:54,310 --> 01:04:57,670
How big compared to the things we do across the big spectrum,

697
01:04:57,670 --> 01:05:02,770
And there again, I want to sort of get this on the record with this B, as far as a change.

698
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:07,350
You know, when you, when you laundry list the things that we would have to vote on and say,

699
01:05:07,430 --> 01:05:12,810
you know, this is where the change compared to some other projects,

700
01:05:13,210 --> 01:05:15,710
where we've made changes to the GMP.

701
01:05:16,350 --> 01:05:23,170
The, the request for just over a two acre modification adjustment to the growth management plan

702
01:05:23,170 --> 01:05:53,150
to include the RFF three properties into the RTs only to the RTs only difference is considered commercial zoning district allows for allows for the hotel to be developed there currently right now that the area is scheduled for residential development so it's a significant it's a upgrade of from residential to commercial so it is a significant change but because this hotel has been there for

703
01:05:53,150 --> 01:06:02,470
for 60 years, it's not an unexpected request or proposal based upon the desire to expand

704
01:06:02,470 --> 01:06:09,850
the facilities, but in terms of overall what type of a muscle movement is from a growth

705
01:06:09,850 --> 01:06:18,030
management plan standpoint, it's a significant change for the immediate area, but for the

706
01:06:18,030 --> 01:06:21,810
larger GNP, it's relatively small change.

707
01:06:21,810 --> 01:06:23,330
And at times, the changes we've made

708
01:06:23,330 --> 01:06:25,690
to growth management plan, they're just not arbitrary.

709
01:06:25,890 --> 01:06:28,370
And I'm not sitting here saying, oh, I think I'm voting.

710
01:06:28,810 --> 01:06:30,130
Yes, I still have a question.

711
01:06:30,370 --> 01:06:33,210
And I want to hear from the public and have some follow-ups from you.

712
01:06:34,210 --> 01:06:36,550
But when I think back to the time for we

713
01:06:36,550 --> 01:06:38,490
have voted almost in the anonymously,

714
01:06:38,770 --> 01:06:41,410
at times the anonymously it was because the change

715
01:06:41,410 --> 01:06:44,030
made sense, it provided for a huge upgrade

716
01:06:44,030 --> 01:06:48,590
for an area that was a big advantage.

717
01:06:49,390 --> 01:06:51,450
Also, this applicant owns those pieces.

718
01:06:51,450 --> 01:06:56,090
So sometimes when there's a change of the GMP and they need to acquire a bunch of pieces

719
01:06:56,090 --> 01:06:58,790
and there's a lot more movement, parts of such a look very sloppy.

720
01:07:00,130 --> 01:07:01,590
So I'm just sitting here weighing it.

721
01:07:01,970 --> 01:07:07,570
My last question for you would be, and this is more to get your expertise to summarize

722
01:07:07,570 --> 01:07:12,150
on the record, what a lot of people who are watching this might not, you know, know.

723
01:07:12,890 --> 01:07:17,870
The disagreement between staff, recommending approval and the color accounting planning

724
01:07:17,870 --> 01:07:24,670
commission, give the sort of synopsis as to, as this presentation change significantly

725
01:07:24,670 --> 01:07:29,790
since what they presented, he presented in front of the Planning Commission or where

726
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:59,960
The disconnect, because the planning commission, you know, we do maybe a little bit of a deeper dive. You know, we asked them to sort of vet this at step one at times. I've said their job is to really set the table for us. Ask really hard hitting questions that allows both sides to tighten up their presentation and then when they come here, you know, they've already sort of gone through it once. What would you say? Because obviously you were there and spoke, I have no doubt. What do you think for the record were the big concerns they had and have any of those things been changed?

727
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:04,360
or we're hearing the exact same presentation but just with a different set of years.

728
01:08:05,260 --> 01:08:06,860
You are here to a different presentation.

729
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,140
The owner didn't speak at the Plan and Commission meeting.

730
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:11,160
It was the representative.

731
01:08:11,540 --> 01:08:19,800
No debis was the applicant at the time provided the overview and I think the focus and

732
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:24,720
the concentration upon the code enforcement issues and the fire issues were the biggest

733
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:29,980
issues that the Plan and Commission really had and I think that motivated the

734
01:08:29,980 --> 01:08:37,760
the six-year-old recommendation of denial in quite frankly, I am somewhat surprised that in

735
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:41,720
that presentation, and it was a good presentation talking about the history and its context

736
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:46,520
and how it fits within the overall residential development that has grown up around it.

737
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,160
I'm surprised that the owner did an address that, because you're asking me about why the

738
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:55,600
has taken so long, I only have second-hand information knowledge of that.

739
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,800
I think that's a question that would be most appropriately directed to the applicant

740
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:06,320
to explain why such hardiness or why it's been a long-gated period to come into compliance.

741
01:09:06,940 --> 01:09:13,120
And because of that concern, I think the Plan and Commission felt that awarding 30 additional

742
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:19,480
rooms to somebody who hasn't taken serious health safety welfare issue is of concern.

743
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:27,200
So those were the focus of the Plan and Commission discussion and some of the code enforcement

744
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:33,220
issues. What I would say is from my perspective, I understand that running a hotel, it's

745
01:09:33,220 --> 01:09:42,300
tough to always, you know, contain some of the excitement of the visitors in a lot of times

746
01:09:42,300 --> 01:09:50,220
that the code enforcement issues have been portrayed as, that the guests have been unruly.

747
01:09:50,380 --> 01:09:55,660
But looking at the number of complaints over the past 15 years, I don't think it's been

748
01:09:55,660 --> 01:10:00,400
excessive in that regard. But I think the issues of some of the code enforcement issues related

749
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:05,460
to the guest behavior, the lack of attention to addressing health safety welfare issues

750
01:10:05,460 --> 01:10:09,580
that have been raised by the fire district, was probably the most concerning and the things

751
01:10:10,260 --> 01:10:13,520
that really persuaded the planning commission to that recommendation.

752
01:10:13,820 --> 01:10:18,800
That's what I really wanted to get, because that was my takeaway that, and even we take

753
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:23,380
that answer, is the duration when time seems to click by, and it doesn't seem like the

754
01:10:23,380 --> 01:10:30,140
there and then all of a sudden there's this mass scramble to come in here and say oh my gosh you know I need this thing approved and it's the greatest thing

755
01:10:30,140 --> 01:10:37,620
I'm the history of the world, but then you sort of go back in the timeline. There was a window there where you could have shown a sense of urgency, but sometimes there's a reason

756
01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:39,960
I'll just have one more add on

757
01:10:40,340 --> 01:10:43,540
because I didn't catch this in the notes. I scanned the

758
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:51,320
Dialogue of the Planet Commission just to get a sense of what they talked about, but I don't know that I pulled it out of there

759
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:56,580
did any to your recollection, anyone from the planning commission and their comments with something

760
01:10:56,580 --> 01:11:01,120
similar to what Commissioner Saunders said and said, you know, accelerate these issues with

761
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:05,600
the fire department and you know, you're maybe he gave a reason and it was a little fan,

762
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:10,620
but they said that was a thing, that was the thing that caused them concern, but was a suggestion

763
01:11:10,620 --> 01:11:17,200
even with the way it came that the caveat was, hey, you know, if you really fix these things

764
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,460
here, you know, I would have felt differently about it.

765
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,220
I didn't sort of pull that out of the comments.

766
01:11:22,380 --> 01:11:26,580
So if somebody said it, it must have just been on one sentence, unless you recall it.

767
01:11:26,980 --> 01:11:31,160
I'm not sure if that was, it wasn't a direct comment, but I think that was the undertone

768
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:36,640
of planning commission was if these issues would have been addressed in a more timely fashion,

769
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:41,800
I think maybe the perspective in terms of the request may have been looked at in a different

770
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:42,100
light.

771
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:43,280
Okay, thank you, sir.

772
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:44,600
Commissioner Hall.

773
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:46,040
Thank you.

774
01:11:47,580 --> 01:11:50,820
Tom, how many public speakers are in on this?

775
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:53,820
We have 15, sir.

776
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,560
All right, I'm going to go ahead and say what I'm thinking,

777
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:58,960
and then we'll hear them.

778
01:11:59,700 --> 01:12:00,780
As the district commissioner,

779
01:12:01,100 --> 01:12:02,980
I've heard from multiple multiple people,

780
01:12:03,300 --> 01:12:07,500
and whether, and I'm not going to be a fan of this project,

781
01:12:07,660 --> 01:12:10,400
and I told them that when I met them,

782
01:12:11,620 --> 01:12:12,740
property rights are sacred,

783
01:12:13,580 --> 01:12:20,080
And the owner has RT zoning, and they have the rights to build up where they're existing.

784
01:12:20,740 --> 01:12:23,680
They have the right to short-term rental their houses that they own behind them.

785
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:24,820
They have every right to do that.

786
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:26,620
I have no problem with that.

787
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:32,860
But to rezone and make everything commercial, to me it just opens up a whole new can of worms.

788
01:12:38,170 --> 01:12:40,190
You know, we don't know what the future holds.

789
01:12:40,350 --> 01:12:42,210
Lift locals in place right now.

790
01:12:42,850 --> 01:12:45,090
They can sell that property as it's rezone.

791
01:12:45,090 --> 01:12:52,030
And we could have all kinds of things happen over there, whether that's the intention, I highly doubt that, but that's a possibility.

792
01:12:53,270 --> 01:13:00,590
Whether I would like to see the existing code stuff, you know, taking care of right now, where they're existing, but that plays no.

793
01:13:01,070 --> 01:13:02,910
That has no weight with me on my decision.

794
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:07,030
I've heard from multiple multiple people that live in Palm River.

795
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:13,550
Palm River is a neat place to live, and it's all for, I appreciate the history of the fairways.

796
01:13:13,550 --> 01:13:22,510
I think it sits right there, it's perfect just like, you know, it's quaint, it serves a purpose, but to grow it, I'm not going to be a fan of it.

797
01:13:22,730 --> 01:13:28,350
So let's hear from the public, and we'll probably have some more discussion up here, and take a vote.

798
01:13:28,510 --> 01:13:30,550
We're going to hear from Commissioner Daniel first.

799
01:13:31,110 --> 01:13:31,950
One more time.

800
01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:41,550
Has there been an estimate on, because you shared with me early, that the height limitations on our T are 100 feet?

801
01:13:41,550 --> 01:13:45,350
And has there been an estimate of, and that's by right.

802
01:13:46,410 --> 01:13:48,670
He's making submit a site development plan,

803
01:13:48,890 --> 01:13:50,230
come to us, meet the criteria,

804
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:54,090
don't have to receive approval to go to that hundred feet.

805
01:13:54,290 --> 01:13:58,910
Has it been an estimate to the increase in units that could be accommodated there?

806
01:14:00,250 --> 01:14:02,630
There's been no estimate for us to apply.

807
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:04,290
Is there a density per acre?

808
01:14:06,150 --> 01:14:10,650
There is no limitation in terms of the,

809
01:14:10,650 --> 01:14:16,050
the country because it all has to say it has to with your floor ratio and size of the

810
01:14:16,050 --> 01:14:20,910
units and depending on what they end up doing. They met necessarily could accommodate

811
01:14:20,910 --> 01:14:30,010
their density increased by going up and not out. I personally I like the layout of the

812
01:14:30,010 --> 01:14:35,110
two stories in lieu of 100 feet and so on and so forth I think it's more conducive for the

813
01:14:36,130 --> 01:14:43,110
How long is the applicant been in the system as far as when did the original apply?

814
01:14:43,390 --> 01:14:49,310
Because I know I've had multiple meetings with both his lawyer and his well.

815
01:14:51,210 --> 01:14:55,130
It's been two years, it's a 2024 application.

816
01:14:55,610 --> 01:14:58,170
So it has been in the system for a while.

817
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:59,970
And I feel similarly to...

818
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,700
Missionary Hall with regard, I mean, health safety and welfare certainly is a big concern. But if, if, if, if I'm the applicant and I'm going to retry the, the units that I have, those, those, those, those hoods and things are necessarily going to go away, if, if the approval were in fact going to come forward. So I wouldn't necessarily be trotting to go spend a bunch of money to fix things that are going to go away in the first place. So, I'm not given them a pass.

819
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:36,460
on not attending those things, but from a financial standpoint, if the

820
01:15:36,460 --> 01:15:40,960
retrofit, if the rezone were in fact proved, those would go away with the new

821
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:41,860
construction anyway.

822
01:15:44,140 --> 01:15:46,280
So, and that's all I have for right now.

823
01:15:46,660 --> 01:15:47,460
Can I just add one thing?

824
01:15:47,460 --> 01:15:47,840
Sure.

825
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:51,920
Before we go to the public speakers, maybe this will help set the table a little bit.

826
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,600
I didn't come here with, you know, a letter everybody speak and I already know how I'm going

827
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:55,940
to vote.

828
01:15:55,940 --> 01:15:58,080
I mean, I've been over the last couple of weeks,

829
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,680
gather information on this, you know,

830
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:02,980
it's had an artistic, we've all been doing that.

831
01:16:03,060 --> 01:16:05,680
One thing that I always weigh is I look at projects like this

832
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:09,540
and I go, okay, I want a way change, you know,

833
01:16:09,940 --> 01:16:11,240
he wants to do something to change,

834
01:16:11,300 --> 01:16:14,120
you know, that whole footprint change versus improvement.

835
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:15,840
So what I would just tell the citizens,

836
01:16:16,140 --> 01:16:17,820
you all are sitting on great comments,

837
01:16:17,980 --> 01:16:19,440
this is where you live, you know, a lot more

838
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:22,700
about this neighborhood than, you know, any of us,

839
01:16:23,220 --> 01:16:24,580
because this is where you live.

840
01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:29,380
Think about that as you come up and sort of package your comments, you know, a lot of times people come to the podium

841
01:16:29,380 --> 01:16:33,860
They just say we just don't want at growth is horrible. You need to vote no or you're a horrible, you know

842
01:16:33,860 --> 01:16:39,180
Commissioner and that's great. You get your three minutes, but that doesn't help us assimilate all this information

843
01:16:39,180 --> 01:16:45,660
So those of you that sit here and go, hey, I'm not I'm not saying it won't look pretty or but here's why it's not an improvement

844
01:16:45,660 --> 01:16:50,800
That that's the kind of valuable information that really makes the public comments

845
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:54,340
The best they can be you can say whatever you want

846
01:16:54,340 --> 01:16:57,840
here I'm not I'm not trying to edit anything that you're saying but I'm going to be looking

847
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:02,500
for those people that have a deeper dive that are closer to this community to really explain

848
01:17:02,500 --> 01:17:08,600
to us the missing pieces in here so it just doesn't come down to fix the fire things,

849
01:17:08,900 --> 01:17:12,420
fix the hoods and the kitchens or whatever and then all of a sudden this thing sounds wonderful.

850
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:20,120
What are the things that make this what is being presented as an improvement as far as a

851
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:25,280
and an upgrade to the neighborhood, if you will, that's what's being presented.

852
01:17:26,060 --> 01:17:27,420
Why is that not true?

853
01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:32,620
That's a very important piece at this podium, at least for me.

854
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:35,300
And I know for my colleagues as well, this isn't rocket science.

855
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:36,680
That's what we're weighing.

856
01:17:36,780 --> 01:17:41,600
Nobody has some preconceived thing here that we're investors in this project.

857
01:17:41,700 --> 01:17:42,680
And it's got to go through.

858
01:17:43,020 --> 01:17:46,300
And I really want to make a sound decision here.

859
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,100
And I think the public comments can be the most important piece of this whole discussion.

860
01:17:50,100 --> 01:17:54,000
And so maybe think about that before we come up here and just read your speech about where

861
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,040
horrible commissioners turning this place into Miami and we should all be voted out

862
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:00,620
of office because we have no integrity, that's not the case.

863
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,260
So thank you, so I look forward to your comments.

864
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:05,920
Mr. Saunders.

865
01:18:06,420 --> 01:18:06,760
Thank you.

866
01:18:07,220 --> 01:18:11,160
A couple questions for the county attorney, just the curiosity at this point.

867
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:18,780
The current zoning on the property is single family RS3 and the request is to change that

868
01:18:18,780 --> 01:18:25,460
to and residents' tourism and change that to commercial planning and development. Under the existing

869
01:18:25,460 --> 01:18:32,420
zoning right now, the single family and the residential tourist, does any of that qualify

870
01:18:32,420 --> 01:18:34,580
for a live local under current zoning?

871
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,100
The commercial social circle certainly does, okay.

872
01:18:40,660 --> 01:18:43,980
And how big is that commercial deep section?

873
01:18:46,030 --> 01:18:48,690
I believe it's one and a half acre. I'm sorry.

874
01:18:48,690 --> 01:18:49,470
What in a half?

875
01:18:50,490 --> 01:18:58,450
And then if it's all changed to commercial planning and development, we did some discussions

876
01:18:58,450 --> 01:19:05,370
concerning planning and development and the applicability of the local, if it's changed

877
01:19:05,370 --> 01:19:10,530
to that commercial planning and development, the whole parcel there, would that then qualify

878
01:19:10,530 --> 01:19:11,470
for a live local?

879
01:19:11,810 --> 01:19:12,470
Yes, sir.

880
01:19:13,010 --> 01:19:15,130
That parcel would be how big?

881
01:19:16,050 --> 01:19:17,910
That would be a total of four acres.

882
01:19:19,090 --> 01:19:22,370
So that would be a potentially a substantial issue.

883
01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:23,610
Housing and affordability.

884
01:19:24,150 --> 01:19:29,810
If this was a proof, that would be an issue for us to be somewhat concerned about, I would think at some point.

885
01:19:30,610 --> 01:19:31,850
Not necessarily for this petition.

886
01:19:31,930 --> 01:19:41,950
I just want to get that that clarifying as to what parcels might possibly be subject to live local.

887
01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:43,370
So thank you.

888
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:47,370
Okay, I see no more questions from the board for you.

889
01:19:48,750 --> 01:19:50,270
How many speakers we have again, Tom?

890
01:19:50,490 --> 01:19:51,470
We have 15, sir.

891
01:19:51,810 --> 01:19:52,090
15.

892
01:19:52,290 --> 01:19:56,510
We have a scheduled court report of break within the next 15 minutes.

893
01:19:57,250 --> 01:20:01,810
Terry, if we want to go ahead and maybe do that before we go to public comment.

894
01:20:03,290 --> 01:20:07,410
And I just want to let everybody know that I've been lacking in my job up here today.

895
01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:10,330
I've been letting people applaud and cheer and stuff like that.

896
01:20:10,330 --> 01:20:14,650
Typically we don't like to do that because if somebody's on here and you don't agree with them

897
01:20:14,650 --> 01:20:18,270
with somebody who's in halls in the audience, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not fair.

898
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:21,630
You know, you might like something somebody's saying, you might dislike something somebody's saying.

899
01:20:21,630 --> 01:20:27,490
So let's just all be, even, remember the young ladies that's read that passage earlier,

900
01:20:27,730 --> 01:20:33,650
but it's all being kind and getting along. So let's just remember that when people appear at the podium, okay?

901
01:20:34,810 --> 01:20:40,030
I'm going to go ahead and take this quarter quarter break and we'll be back in 10-20.

902
01:20:40,190 --> 01:20:41,610
Take a 10-minute, 10-26.

903
01:20:42,570 --> 01:20:42,890
All

904
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:46,280
together.

905
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:47,980
And then I give some of the chance to think about it.

906
01:30:56,530 --> 01:31:07,850
Okay, if everybody go ahead and take their seats, we're going to go ahead and get started again. And just remind everybody, once again, you cell phones on silence and respect the people at the podium, okay?

907
01:31:10,370 --> 01:31:12,390
We have a quorum up here.

908
01:31:12,650 --> 01:31:13,790
Okay, Tom.

909
01:31:15,130 --> 01:31:20,750
They can hear, we have speakers out in the hallways in the bathroom and everything. So they hear everything you say and just let you know.

910
01:31:20,750 --> 01:31:21,970
And I'll miss in anything.

911
01:31:23,110 --> 01:31:23,610
Good to see you.

912
01:31:23,610 --> 01:31:28,830
Mr. Chair, we have 15 registered speakers, 14 in the room, and one on Zoom in the

913
01:31:28,830 --> 01:31:29,610
interest of time.

914
01:31:29,730 --> 01:31:33,710
I will ask speakers to queue up at both podiums.

915
01:31:34,130 --> 01:31:39,330
You'll have three minutes to speak, and if you could, if I may ask, state your name for

916
01:31:39,330 --> 01:31:39,850
the record.

917
01:31:40,350 --> 01:31:45,830
Our first registered speaker is Patricia Perisi, and she will be followed by Bay Bay

918
01:31:45,830 --> 01:31:46,270
Canter.

919
01:31:57,640 --> 01:31:58,240
Good morning.

920
01:31:58,600 --> 01:31:59,400
Good morning.

921
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:05,740
Patricia Parisi and I live at 475 Palmer of the Boulevard. Yes, that Parisi. I saw the

922
01:32:05,740 --> 01:32:07,900
look at I see. That's the email Parisi.

923
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:14,960
I live at 475 Palmer of the Boulevard. I have

924
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:23,420
been a resident and homeowner for 30 years. I have seen many different many things in

925
01:32:23,420 --> 01:32:36,500
I was there before saw grass, before horse creek, before the authorized building, my concern today is mostly the traffic and parking.

926
01:32:37,480 --> 01:32:42,580
Okay, we only have two entrances and exits into our community.

927
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:47,420
And I was very happy with Steve, right? Steve's presentation.

928
01:32:47,420 --> 01:32:52,860
because he showed what the fairways in looked like in 1964.

929
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:56,100
Well, there was no palm river in 1964.

930
01:32:57,300 --> 01:33:01,780
So yes, now we have over 2,000 residences

931
01:33:01,780 --> 01:33:07,000
that have to go through the two entrances and exits.

932
01:33:07,500 --> 01:33:11,140
And one entrance already has major commercial.

933
01:33:11,140 --> 01:33:17,460
or that's the one on Piper and Pomp and Cypress Way East.

934
01:33:18,020 --> 01:33:25,680
Okay, so my concern really is the off-street parking on this his tracks of land.

935
01:33:27,180 --> 01:33:40,300
So I did a lot of research into your PUDs and what the planning commission last time was not aware of is that you're going to be ruling today

936
01:33:40,300 --> 01:33:42,260
on both tracks of lanes.

937
01:33:42,740 --> 01:33:45,140
The Planning Commission thought it was just the extension,

938
01:33:45,740 --> 01:33:48,360
but it's not because he's asking you

939
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:53,140
to put both tracks A and B together in one CPU day.

940
01:33:53,740 --> 01:33:58,240
Now, your PUD states that there can be no off-street parking.

941
01:33:58,740 --> 01:34:00,120
Well, that's what's there now.

942
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:04,800
So in order to fulfill his requirements for parking,

943
01:34:05,380 --> 01:34:07,820
he needs 84 parking spots.

944
01:34:07,820 --> 01:34:17,000
Okay, for these 76, he is using 42 of those 84 parking spots as

945
01:34:17,260 --> 01:34:23,280
Off Street parking, which you're already there in track day. So if you, okay, this

946
01:34:23,820 --> 01:34:26,000
Incorporated track day track B

947
01:34:27,580 --> 01:34:28,380
CPUD

948
01:34:28,380 --> 01:34:35,960
Those parking spots, he doesn't have enough parking, and I know he said that the residential or the

949
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:38,900
pedestrian traffic will stay internal.

950
01:34:39,740 --> 01:34:43,700
But, track day in track B, they both have,

951
01:34:43,860 --> 01:34:47,600
they both have, they have to go through the same check-in,

952
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:51,980
check-out, and they're all using the same facilities.

953
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:54,200
So, that's my main concern.

954
01:34:54,300 --> 01:34:58,240
I have been personally almost involved in three,

955
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:00,580
thank goodness, almost involved in three accidents,

956
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:03,780
where I have been coming down that street,

957
01:35:03,780 --> 01:35:10,400
of a boulevard and stopped because people were already half way out of those parking spots.

958
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:18,260
Well, people behind me, they don't stop. And I've almost been re-rendered. So that's my concern.

959
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:24,760
I know you have other concerns, but just look at the Austrian parking. It already states it in the

960
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:30,080
you did. Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Bay Bay

961
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:36,800
Canter and she will be followed by Joan Ramino. Hi today I'm speaking as the

962
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:44,260
founder of Quiet Collier and I did clap for Jackie K because I missed her. Jackie

963
01:35:44,260 --> 01:35:49,140
K is a great speaker. I wish she came more often. I don't always agree with what

964
01:35:49,140 --> 01:35:51,580
She says, but it's always very interesting.

965
01:35:52,580 --> 01:35:56,240
I've already spoken to the owner about this.

966
01:35:56,440 --> 01:36:01,100
And my recommendation to them is that when they come back here,

967
01:36:01,540 --> 01:36:06,280
they should do more to buffer their proposal.

968
01:36:06,440 --> 01:36:09,580
Even if they don't pass, they should do more to buffer their

969
01:36:09,580 --> 01:36:13,500
proposal because there is not enough sound buffering.

970
01:36:13,500 --> 01:36:22,140
There are ways of making sure that their guests enter the streets more slowly by using bumps within.

971
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:30,240
And then also, it's very common to have, for neighbors to be upset about dumpster activity.

972
01:36:30,420 --> 01:36:38,620
And there will be more dumpster activity if this project is approved because there's more dumps.

973
01:36:38,700 --> 01:36:40,360
And it's very noisy in the morning.

974
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:46,400
So I think that, no matter what they should do, they should make greater effort, which

975
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:51,800
I looked at the plans, they could do a lot better in terms of their sound modifications

976
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:58,640
and slowing down traffic, and the other thing, which apparently, they didn't emphasize,

977
01:36:59,180 --> 01:37:05,980
is that they have all native plants, it's a bird sanctuary, which is more than you can

978
01:37:05,980 --> 01:37:13,140
for any housing surrounding houses when you plant native plants and bushes you become a sanctuary

979
01:37:13,140 --> 01:37:18,540
for wildlife. Maybe you should require that they put in some bad houses. I would and I would also

980
01:37:18,540 --> 01:37:22,280
be very strict about dark sky. Thank you very much.

981
01:37:24,440 --> 01:37:27,140
Our next registered speaker is Joan Ramino

982
01:37:27,140 --> 01:37:29,160
She will be followed by Gerald Hoagland.

983
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:40,300
Good morning. My name is Joni Ramone. My family and I live at 168 Palm View Drive, which is in close proximity to the site that we are talking about.

984
01:37:40,580 --> 01:37:56,640
I'm here to speak about the rezoning from a residential to commercial land use. The rezoning permanently removes the RSF 3 land from the residential supply in one of the north-nables, most accessible ownership neighborhoods.

985
01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:03,320
and that loss cannot be undone. The Palm River neighborhood represents something increasingly rare

986
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:09,030
in call your county. An established owner occupied single-family neighborhood with a range of

987
01:38:09,940 --> 01:38:16,180
home prices accessible to a broad cross-section of residents. In a county where the median home

988
01:38:16,180 --> 01:38:22,900
price now exceeds $600,000, neighborhoods like this with an intact residential character,

989
01:38:22,900 --> 01:38:29,020
RFF3 zoning and proximity to employment corridors are finite and diminishing resources.

990
01:38:29,700 --> 01:38:34,300
The argument here operates at the zoning level, not the parcel level.

991
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:50,940
Whether these four specific houses are currently owner occupied, rented, rented, or otherwise used is beside the point, which matters is that the RFF3 zoning is a designation that makes residential use possible here as a right.

992
01:38:50,940 --> 01:38:55,020
No special approvals, no rezoning, no GMPA required.

993
01:38:55,700 --> 01:39:00,240
Once these parcels are converted to commercial-planed unit development through the GMPA,

994
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:05,380
that designation is permanently gone. Beyond these four houses,

995
01:39:05,620 --> 01:39:10,480
the President matters enormously. The hotel owner controls additional parcels

996
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:17,200
and has a clear path to continue expanding northward. Each approval makes the next request

997
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:23,980
easier to justify. The cumulative effect of the incremental commercial encroachment is a gradually

998
01:39:23,980 --> 01:39:29,840
erosion of the residential character that makes palm river the viable ownership and neighborhood

999
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:35,680
that it is. Once that character is lost it cannot be legislated back and the county should

1000
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:42,400
weigh not just what is being requested today but what approving this request makes possible tomorrow.

1001
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:45,020
A GMPA is a one way door.

1002
01:39:45,380 --> 01:39:47,720
The question is not what happens to these four lots.

1003
01:39:48,020 --> 01:39:53,020
It's what this approval makes possible for every residential parcel to the north.

1004
01:39:53,020 --> 01:39:54,360
Thank you.

1005
01:39:54,420 --> 01:39:55,400
Thank you.

1006
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:59,360
Our next registered speaker is Gerald Hogland.

1007
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:03,400
Gerald has a speaker who is seating time and Hogland.

1008
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:05,640
Raise your hand, Anne.

1009
01:40:06,160 --> 01:40:06,360
Thanks.

1010
01:40:06,500 --> 01:40:07,060
Thank you, Anne.

1011
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:09,260
Gerald, you will have six minutes, sir.

1012
01:40:09,620 --> 01:40:09,880
All right.

1013
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:18,320
I don't know what that planning guy that came up there that was at the planning meeting.

1014
01:40:18,700 --> 01:40:22,020
I don't know, I'm not good at names.

1015
01:40:23,020 --> 01:40:24,680
I don't know what meeting he attended.

1016
01:40:25,900 --> 01:40:29,660
But the fire hazard was a big thing for them.

1017
01:40:29,900 --> 01:40:42,270
But the main reason that they had planning commission turned down this request was because it was not acceptable.

1018
01:40:42,270 --> 01:40:51,890
in this area. And there was no reason for it to be in this area. Now the fairway

1019
01:40:51,890 --> 01:40:58,690
motel has, I've asked everybody how the fairway motel got there in the first place

1020
01:40:58,690 --> 01:41:04,670
and everybody said it was grandfather clause into the master plan of the

1021
01:41:04,670 --> 01:41:11,110
builder because it was already there and they had to build around it so they

1022
01:41:11,110 --> 01:41:16,090
that it was grandfathered clause down. And because it was grandfathered clause

1023
01:41:16,090 --> 01:41:23,070
down, we've had put up with that fairway motel. Everything that is about a motel

1024
01:41:23,070 --> 01:41:29,190
is not good. And if you want to expand a motel, that's even worse.

1025
01:41:31,290 --> 01:41:35,330
And I believe this

1026
01:41:35,330 --> 01:41:42,650
should be turned down. I think the planning commissioners turned it down and we had a petition

1027
01:41:42,650 --> 01:41:52,670
at the time of the planning commission, or 560 on a petition, to turn this down. I mean this

1028
01:41:52,670 --> 01:41:56,350
is absolutely not needed in this area.

1029
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:04,260
If they wanted to build a motel, they could go down near

1030
01:42:04,260 --> 01:42:10,620
good-let road and build a motel there next to them restaurants and things like that

1031
01:42:10,620 --> 01:42:18,080
where a motel was probably needed or a hotel not in the middle of a residential area.

1032
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:25,600
You have on the west side you have a million dollar houses.

1033
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:40,440
of Sherwood. On the east side, they range from 500 to 750 and the property values on that

1034
01:42:40,440 --> 01:42:47,960
house of all the houses will definitely go down. This is one of the considerations I was reading

1035
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:54,500
through the GPS of your considerations for this.

1036
01:42:58,020 --> 01:43:10,090
I mean, you don't put a big motel hotel in the middle of a residential area, especially

1037
01:43:10,090 --> 01:43:19,350
a million dollar homes that set right next to this motel, and I think the best alternative

1038
01:43:19,350 --> 01:43:21,930
would be to get rid of the whole motel,

1039
01:43:25,230 --> 01:43:29,790
not expand the motel. And I'm sorry I wasn't

1040
01:43:29,790 --> 01:43:40,350
meeting with you guys to have a great presentation here. I can only read from the notes

1041
01:43:40,350 --> 01:43:41,250
the Dajad.

1042
01:43:43,530 --> 01:43:55,630
And they're talking about the traffic. You had a prove that big building for Arthrax.

1043
01:43:56,770 --> 01:44:02,330
At the end of Coral Vine, you look at that big six-story building. Unfortunately,

1044
01:44:02,330 --> 01:44:08,790
that had 40 apartments in it, or condo, you figure that's too hard, too

1045
01:44:08,790 --> 01:44:18,670
cars per condo. They all come down, foam river, and they're going to

1046
01:44:18,670 --> 01:44:21,190
be coming down in the morning to go to work.

1047
01:44:24,050 --> 01:44:30,950
So you're going to have the

1048
01:44:30,950 --> 01:44:38,470
not what we need, especially at Palm River because it's a Palm River and paper is a big

1049
01:44:38,470 --> 01:44:44,670
accident waiting to happen and there have been several accidents at this corner.

1050
01:44:45,690 --> 01:44:55,850
Let alone at night when all the people, I mean you have traffic backed up all the way to

1051
01:44:55,850 --> 01:44:58,310
the palm river to the highway.

1052
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:14,660
And this is the most ridiculous thing I've seen adding more buildings and everything else until you fix a road to have enough for traffic.

1053
01:45:16,580 --> 01:45:27,960
And this is the biggest complaint I have is the traffic, they come off of a mockery, they

1054
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:33,900
turn in, they go down paper all the way to Kirkland and then try and get back onto a mockery.

1055
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:39,900
So you got that paper having enough traffic.

1056
01:45:39,900 --> 01:45:49,680
Let alone what this motel will add in traffic, because your figure in 72 rooms is going

1057
01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:59,660
to be 72 cars that you're adding to the traffic that is already plugged up,

1058
01:46:02,430 --> 01:46:05,180
and I keep

1059
01:46:05,180 --> 01:46:06,780
losing my train of thought.

1060
01:46:10,740 --> 01:46:14,320
You know, she's second left, so we'll go ahead and finish her.

1061
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:16,000
Okay, I'm sorry.

1062
01:46:17,080 --> 01:46:18,040
That's it.

1063
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:20,860
Well, thank you.

1064
01:46:21,020 --> 01:46:21,520
I'm done.

1065
01:46:22,060 --> 01:46:23,000
All right, thank you, sir.

1066
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:27,720
Your next registered speaker is Maria Styles,

1067
01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:30,740
and she will be followed by Maggie Diaz.

1068
01:46:38,260 --> 01:46:38,580
Good morning.

1069
01:46:39,620 --> 01:46:43,920
My name is Maria Styles, and I'm the property manager for the Fairways and of Naples.

1070
01:46:44,360 --> 01:46:48,040
I'm in a unique position because I am not only a Naples native,

1071
01:46:48,040 --> 01:46:53,300
But I've lived in Palmer ever since 1998. I've witnessed the many changes that have shaped

1072
01:46:53,300 --> 01:46:58,700
not only Naples as a whole, but this neighborhood specifically. Over the years I've learned

1073
01:46:58,700 --> 01:47:03,780
that change is inevitable, but it's just as important to hold on to what is good and to support

1074
01:47:03,780 --> 01:47:09,980
the kinds of development that keep our community in mind. The fairways is a charming mid-century

1075
01:47:09,980 --> 01:47:15,660
style motel. In fact, this year we are celebrating our 60 years in business. Our staff,

1076
01:47:15,660 --> 01:47:19,180
and guests often refer to each other as fairways family.

1077
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:23,400
Our guests know our staff by name, not because of a name tag,

1078
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:26,400
but because of the time, attention, and genuine care.

1079
01:47:26,660 --> 01:47:28,700
We give to everyone who stays with us.

1080
01:47:29,460 --> 01:47:34,500
Our team works tirelessly to provide an affordable, clean, and truly unique experience

1081
01:47:34,500 --> 01:47:38,520
and their dedication reflects the support we receive from our corporate office.

1082
01:47:39,900 --> 01:47:43,020
Many of us have worked for Steve for more than 10 years,

1083
01:47:43,020 --> 01:47:48,200
And that is because he is the kind of business man that anyone could hope to work for.

1084
01:47:48,660 --> 01:47:52,180
When summer slowed down and other hotels let seasonal workers go,

1085
01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:54,440
he keeps every one of us full time.

1086
01:47:55,040 --> 01:47:59,020
When COVID shut down our industry and so many people lost their livelihoods,

1087
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:00,600
he kept us employed.

1088
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:02,220
We never missed a paycheck.

1089
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:05,440
That level of dedication to a staff is rare.

1090
01:48:05,900 --> 01:48:09,440
It deserves to be recognized, appreciated, and supported by the community.

1091
01:48:10,140 --> 01:48:14,060
In turn, the Fairways values its community just as deeply.

1092
01:48:14,940 --> 01:48:20,380
We understand the need for affordable, clean, safe, and welcoming hospitality outside of the

1093
01:48:20,380 --> 01:48:24,400
high-end tour market, and we take pride in providing exactly that.

1094
01:48:24,900 --> 01:48:29,440
The Fairways extends discounts for Pomba of Residence, as well as guests who must travel

1095
01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:33,840
to Naples, whether it's for medical reasons, or to visit loved ones in the assisted living

1096
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:35,320
centers in neighboring hospitals.

1097
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:38,540
We strive to preserve the qualities that truly matter.

1098
01:48:39,140 --> 01:48:44,080
We celebrate anniversaries, birthdays, and holidays with our guests, and we support them

1099
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:47,360
through hospice visits, funerals, and major life changes.

1100
01:48:48,080 --> 01:48:52,240
These moments bring our staff and guests close together, and are a big part of why we consider

1101
01:48:52,240 --> 01:48:53,740
ourselves the fairways family.

1102
01:48:55,180 --> 01:48:59,240
Unfortunately, the proposal to expand what we all cherished has brought out some anger

1103
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:05,480
Then a few felt it was helpful to cause, to direct insults at our team or to his details to fit a narrative.

1104
01:49:06,140 --> 01:49:08,840
Over the past nine years that I have managed to fair ways for Steve,

1105
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:12,580
I have watched this place grow and blossom into something truly special.

1106
01:49:13,340 --> 01:49:17,020
And I worry about what would happen if it were not Steve who owned this piece of paradise.

1107
01:49:17,780 --> 01:49:23,240
I don't believe a large company would value the history, the staff, the tropical gardens, the neighborhood,

1108
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,440
or the sense of community that we are working so hard to build.

1109
01:49:26,440 --> 01:49:35,500
As a neighbor myself, I genuinely believe that adding another building one that reflects the look of the neighborhood remains open to the public and brings thoughtful change.

1110
01:49:35,840 --> 01:49:38,440
While honoring its history is a positive step forward.

1111
01:49:40,930 --> 01:49:41,810
Thank you.

1112
01:49:42,550 --> 01:49:46,810
Our next speaker is Maggie Diaz, and she will be followed by Starling Hendrix.

1113
01:49:48,950 --> 01:49:49,850
Good morning, Commission.

1114
01:49:50,810 --> 01:49:52,170
My name is Maggie Diaz.

1115
01:49:52,170 --> 01:50:13,310
I've lived on Sharward Drive, which is, I'm eight houses from the back parking lot of the hotel for about 30 years now and I've lived in the area since 77 and my first experience at the fairways was holding up there at $30 a night for two nights.

1116
01:50:13,310 --> 01:50:20,370
Well, I studied for my masters away from my family and friends, so they've always been a good neighbor

1117
01:50:20,370 --> 01:50:28,390
in my personal opinion. They give us neighborhood discounts. I know they've stepped in various staff members

1118
01:50:28,390 --> 01:50:37,710
have stepped in to assist neighbors with a variety of issues, personal issues. They have long-term

1119
01:50:37,710 --> 01:50:46,630
employees that we can have confidence in, and you don't find people leaving, they're well

1120
01:50:46,630 --> 01:50:49,650
paid, they're treated with respect, it's great.

1121
01:50:50,950 --> 01:50:57,550
The property itself shows respect for the neighborhood, they have added new fencing, with

1122
01:50:57,550 --> 01:51:07,570
lighting, to make that turn easier around the side of the hotel, it's pretty, the landscaping

1123
01:51:07,570 --> 01:51:15,170
beautiful. I had a baby shower there and there, because he bow in the center, that was too big

1124
01:51:15,170 --> 01:51:21,570
for my house and it's just gorgeous and all of the guests who are all local commented on that.

1125
01:51:23,510 --> 01:51:30,550
Maria even tried to come and check my house during in except the fact that when the water reached her

1126
01:51:30,550 --> 01:51:33,010
here. She had to turn back and couldn't check.

1127
01:51:35,050 --> 01:51:38,750
I think this project, when I look at some

1128
01:51:38,750 --> 01:51:45,690
of the projects and call your county, and the growth that we have, this looks subtle to me,

1129
01:51:45,730 --> 01:51:48,690
and it looks like it's in keeping with the neighborhood.

1130
01:51:51,490 --> 01:51:54,630
I'm closing what I hate to think what

1131
01:51:54,630 --> 01:52:04,430
it happened if the property is sold because if this property is sold, if maybe the owners

1132
01:52:04,430 --> 01:52:12,230
are dissatisfied because they have no room for growth or for whatever reason, but we're

1133
01:52:12,230 --> 01:52:20,570
looking at a 10-story monolith in front of our neighborhood and probably just a big old square

1134
01:52:20,570 --> 01:52:25,590
block, nothing actually really beautiful, something really contemporary,

1135
01:52:28,390 --> 01:52:29,970
and so, I-

1136
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:46,900
I think that's something that we, we, as a neighbor, would need to, you know, keep in our minds that by denying or, you know, not allowing this project, we may end up with a corporate sale.

1137
01:52:46,900 --> 01:52:53,620
We may end up looking at a parking lot. I mean, I don't know. I'm I'm much happier with what's there

1138
01:52:54,300 --> 01:52:58,640
and a small addition, which is a little stay within our neighborhood.

1139
01:52:59,300 --> 01:53:01,320
aesthetic. Thank you.

1140
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:03,220
Thank you.

1141
01:53:03,580 --> 01:53:10,240
Our next registered speaker is Starling Hendrix. Starling has someone seeding time to her. Eva Beckerman.

1142
01:53:10,860 --> 01:53:12,660
If you could raise your hand for me, Eva.

1143
01:53:13,900 --> 01:53:15,020
Thank you.

1144
01:53:15,900 --> 01:53:17,220
Darling, you have six minutes.

1145
01:53:17,820 --> 01:53:18,240
Thank you.

1146
01:53:18,580 --> 01:53:18,960
Good morning.

1147
01:53:19,020 --> 01:53:20,300
My name is Starling Hendrix.

1148
01:53:20,580 --> 01:53:28,760
I've been a call your county resident for 25 years and a resident of Palmer River for since 2015 where my husband and I raised our children there.

1149
01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:37,720
You're going to hear a lot today and I know the commission has already touched on some of the compliance issues at the hotel itself.

1150
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:41,700
as it relates to work on permitted work that was completed

1151
01:53:41,700 --> 01:53:43,320
and fire code violations.

1152
01:53:44,020 --> 01:53:46,080
But I do want to draw the commission's attention

1153
01:53:46,080 --> 01:53:49,760
to a second part of this that maybe won't be focused

1154
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:51,660
on as much, but I think it's just as important.

1155
01:53:52,520 --> 01:53:54,700
There's a home that is immediately to the north

1156
01:53:54,700 --> 01:53:57,080
of the commercial property.

1157
01:53:57,300 --> 01:53:59,240
It's 128 Palm View Drive.

1158
01:53:59,900 --> 01:54:02,560
128 Palm View Drive is the very first house

1159
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:04,520
behind the fairways in.

1160
01:54:04,520 --> 01:54:07,660
And we'd be part of the demolition and rezoning

1161
01:54:07,660 --> 01:54:10,080
of, as part of this application.

1162
01:54:11,140 --> 01:54:13,060
This home was, has been owned, I believe,

1163
01:54:13,200 --> 01:54:15,740
by the owner for a number of years by the applicant.

1164
01:54:16,620 --> 01:54:22,100
And I was used as a rental property, the home burned

1165
01:54:22,100 --> 01:54:27,160
in July of 2021 on July 4th of 2021.

1166
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:31,660
I believe there was a fireworks incident that caused

1167
01:54:31,660 --> 01:54:39,460
fire in the home and the roof was burned significantly. There were significant smoke damage

1168
01:54:39,460 --> 01:54:47,420
on the residents and it was deemed unable to be continued to be occupied. So in 2021, over five

1169
01:54:47,420 --> 01:54:54,740
years ago, that event happened. The applicant subsequently applied for a permit in July,

1170
01:55:01,560 --> 01:55:01,620
I'm sorry,

1171
01:55:01,620 --> 01:55:11,760
that that was going on. There was an adjustment made to the AdValorum assessed a value of the home.

1172
01:55:12,560 --> 01:55:18,260
That was dropped the assessed value of the home from $345,000 to $240,000.

1173
01:55:19,380 --> 01:55:24,760
Over $100,000 less at that, around that same time.

1174
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:34,680
And all of this, of course, is a public record and the tax card indicates that the basis for that was because the home was going to be demolished.

1175
01:55:35,140 --> 01:55:37,380
I can tell you right now, the home is still there.

1176
01:55:39,140 --> 01:55:45,540
Subsequently, in 2022, the tax rules will show that the assessed ad Valorant Value of that home dropped to 241.

1177
01:55:45,540 --> 01:55:56,400
And then, you know, obviously, everybody has sex increases in color counties, so, but the new basis for the increase was dramatically dropped in 2022.

1178
01:55:58,540 --> 01:56:05,760
The point I'm trying to make is really about the resources that the county has, right?

1179
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:11,720
And the fact that Adlerum taxes are used to provide those resources to the residents of color county.

1180
01:56:11,720 --> 01:56:24,060
They bring, they pay for our police department, they pay for our fire department, they pay for our county employees and they're important that everybody be contributing to that.

1181
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:32,720
After the permit was issued in January 2022, the permit was subsequently canceled in May of 2022.

1182
01:56:33,760 --> 01:56:39,460
The cancellation record states, the owner has decided to remodel rather than demolish.

1183
01:56:42,140 --> 01:56:48,480
The home has not been, the fire damage exists today, if you walk by that home today, there is still a hole in the roof.

1184
01:56:48,860 --> 01:56:51,700
This was also a bone of contention with the planning commission.

1185
01:56:53,220 --> 01:56:59,720
There has been no effort to remodel the residents, despite the representation by the owner, to do so in 2022.

1186
01:57:01,260 --> 01:57:08,880
In the meantime, the owner has been paying less taxes into the call your county registry,

1187
01:57:09,860 --> 01:57:14,620
and has, as you will hear from other neighbors, more demand on county resources.

1188
01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:24,160
There have been over 100 calls, 9-1-1 calls to this location in the period of time since 2021 till today.

1189
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:30,320
There's no private security that's provided by the owner at this hotel, but instead he relies on the

1190
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:34,480
Collier County Sheriff's Office to provide his security at this property.

1191
01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:39,460
And we all know that the money to pay for the Collier County Sheriff's Office comes from taxes.

1192
01:57:41,660 --> 01:57:51,900
So my message here is really about what more drain on resources is going to be taking place when we expand this property.

1193
01:57:51,900 --> 01:57:55,760
We're going to go from 46 rooms to 76 rooms.

1194
01:57:55,900 --> 01:58:01,560
We're going to go from, I don't know, you know, 150 calls a year to 100 calls a year.

1195
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:03,720
I don't know what that looks like.

1196
01:58:04,060 --> 01:58:13,840
But there has been zero effort by the owner to control his guests to control the situations

1197
01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:19,880
over there, to there have been a number of various disturbing calls, and one of my colleagues

1198
01:58:19,880 --> 01:58:26,880
will get into that a little bit further, but there's no regard for the impact that the business

1199
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:34,020
itself has on our county resources. And I think that's a really important point and I

1200
01:58:34,020 --> 01:58:39,420
encourage the commissioners to consider that when they're considering expanding and putting

1201
01:58:39,420 --> 01:58:44,180
more pressure on our services and more pressure on our resources in order to support a private

1202
01:58:44,180 --> 01:58:45,980
Thank you.

1203
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:46,960
Thank you.

1204
01:58:47,820 --> 01:58:54,060
Our next registered speaker is Ed Boeder. Ed has four additional speakers, seating time

1205
01:58:54,060 --> 01:58:58,440
to him, and I will list them off a few could raise your hands. Jeff Krauss.

1206
01:59:00,760 --> 01:59:01,740
Craig Hendricks.

1207
01:59:03,460 --> 01:59:04,440
Missy Cohen.

1208
01:59:08,240 --> 01:59:09,360
Chris Cohen.

1209
01:59:09,920 --> 01:59:16,080
Yeah, the lift as well. Ed, that means you will have nine minutes, sir.

1210
01:59:16,080 --> 01:59:20,640
Thank you. Good morning, commissioners. My name is Ed Bader. I have lived at 316

1211
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:26,160
Charlotte Drive just around the corner from the Fairways in and down the street for 25 years.

1212
01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:31,140
I want to address the narratives made by the two studies, the feasibility

1213
01:59:31,140 --> 01:59:35,480
staff reports issued by Davidson Engineering and Zonta, which is in your packet.

1214
01:59:36,220 --> 01:59:39,520
Davidson, of course, you know, is a local engineering firm, but you're probably aware.

1215
01:59:40,060 --> 01:59:43,940
Zonta, though, is a California-based firm, and there is no indication in their report.

1216
01:59:43,940 --> 01:59:49,620
whatsoever the anyone from their firm actually visited the motel site. So while it's hard

1217
01:59:49,620 --> 01:59:54,200
to understand how reliable any conclusions can be from them, the California base firm that

1218
01:59:54,200 --> 01:59:58,700
has never visited the site. I'm going to address their report anyway. Starting with Davison,

1219
01:59:58,980 --> 01:59:59,740
they say quote,

1220
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:10,860
In their report, the existing hotel maintains a good relationship with the neighborhood and is operated in a cleanly quiet manner, so it's not to call us any adverse impacts in quote.

1221
02:00:12,220 --> 02:00:17,380
I'll direct your attention to the 129-page, Cire County Sheriff's Report,

1222
02:00:20,160 --> 02:00:29,960
and shows that in the period from April of 2021 to 2025 there were 118 incidences that the fairways in involving the Sheriff's Department.

1223
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:31,960
That's almost two per month.

1224
02:00:32,620 --> 02:00:37,380
The report also shows it in the third, three and a half months of 20, 26 up until the time

1225
02:00:37,380 --> 02:00:39,960
of the original planning commission meeting.

1226
02:00:40,440 --> 02:00:44,180
There were seven more instances again, two per month in that three and a half month period.

1227
02:00:45,260 --> 02:00:50,180
Now, since the planning meeting in June, there were seven more calls to the sheriff's

1228
02:00:50,180 --> 02:00:52,100
department up to this point.

1229
02:00:52,660 --> 02:00:55,900
So basically, I know that no one said there'd be a math today, so let me give you the

1230
02:00:55,900 --> 02:00:56,280
conclusion.

1231
02:00:56,280 --> 02:01:01,820
And in the last five and a half years, there have been 132 calls made to the shares department

1232
02:01:01,820 --> 02:01:03,500
from the Fairways in.

1233
02:01:04,240 --> 02:01:06,520
18 of those calls were medical emergencies.

1234
02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:12,380
So eliminating those is legitimate, there were still 114 non-medical emergency calls to the

1235
02:01:12,380 --> 02:01:12,900
shares department.

1236
02:01:13,280 --> 02:01:18,780
So I don't know how you put a value on the words much beloved, how you quantify that.

1237
02:01:18,820 --> 02:01:20,880
Since it's just a value judgment in an opinion.

1238
02:01:20,880 --> 02:01:26,660
But the Sheriff's report pays a picture of a neighbor that doesn't operate in a quiet manner.

1239
02:01:27,380 --> 02:01:33,860
I personally witnessed a fist fight by two intoxicated gentlemen in the back parking lot of the Motel several years ago,

1240
02:01:34,180 --> 02:01:38,340
when I was out for a nice stroll in the evening in our residential neighborhood.

1241
02:01:39,520 --> 02:01:46,100
Some of the calls to the Sheriff, if you look at the reporter, actually occupants who got locked out of their rooms after hours in the evening.

1242
02:01:46,100 --> 02:01:54,240
The motel doesn't have an after-hours manned front desk, so people are forced to call the sheriff's department if they get locked out.

1243
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:57,260
That's not a good use of the sheriff's department.

1244
02:01:58,420 --> 02:02:09,400
And why ask you this? Why did the Coyour County School Board remove the school bus stop across from the back entrance to the motel for safety reasons?

1245
02:02:10,080 --> 02:02:15,740
But Davis says, quote, if this same quality of operation will be maintained in the proposed

1246
02:02:15,740 --> 02:02:22,700
expansion and quote, how do they know that and it creates a quote unquote minimal impact

1247
02:02:22,700 --> 02:02:27,980
to neighbors around two calls to the sheriff every month and you're proposing to increase

1248
02:02:27,980 --> 02:02:33,140
the motel by 40%. That won't have more than a minimal impact to the neighbors.

1249
02:02:37,320 --> 02:02:37,960
Davis

1250
02:02:37,960 --> 02:02:41,100
surrounding residential land uses,

1251
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:44,000
and quote, how can a commercial motel be compatible

1252
02:02:44,000 --> 02:02:47,960
with residential uses that surround the motel on three sides?

1253
02:02:49,260 --> 02:02:51,100
They would sit in Zonta both point out

1254
02:02:51,100 --> 02:02:53,060
that the single-family residential homes

1255
02:02:53,060 --> 02:02:55,660
that would be adjacent to the motel expansion

1256
02:02:55,660 --> 02:02:59,260
should they get approved are also owned by the motel owner

1257
02:02:59,260 --> 02:03:03,040
and that as additional buffering to the residents.

1258
02:03:03,420 --> 02:03:06,440
But houses can't be buffers,

1259
02:03:06,440 --> 02:03:16,320
Not to a motel, regardless of who owns them, you don't buff for a motel, a house you buff for a motel with landscaping and privacy walls, that sort of thing.

1260
02:03:16,860 --> 02:03:21,140
So Davidson also says those homes will be maintained as residential property.

1261
02:03:21,720 --> 02:03:23,240
But again, how do they know that?

1262
02:03:23,480 --> 02:03:24,900
Can they guarantee that?

1263
02:03:24,900 --> 02:03:33,020
especially a four single-family homes are torn down for motel leaving that

1264
02:03:33,020 --> 02:03:36,020
this leaves a press that sets a precedent for those adjacent motel

1265
02:03:36,020 --> 02:03:40,880
on homes the remaining three that the owner owns to convert to a more motel in the future.

1266
02:03:41,060 --> 02:03:46,560
It's a bad precedent. Zonta points out to quote numerous similar uses in the vicinity of the

1267
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:51,820
subject in quote. They are referring to two medical offices and a self-storage facility

1268
02:03:51,820 --> 02:03:54,900
along Piper Boulevard at Cyprusway East,

1269
02:03:55,420 --> 02:03:58,200
which is of course a frontied road facing a motley road.

1270
02:03:58,560 --> 02:04:00,180
They say those properties highlight

1271
02:04:00,180 --> 02:04:03,480
that the motel location should not be considered inappropriate.

1272
02:04:04,360 --> 02:04:07,020
Those parcels are his own C1,

1273
02:04:07,720 --> 02:04:10,960
as they are low-intensity uses versus a motel.

1274
02:04:11,700 --> 02:04:14,620
And they are not adjacent to single family residential homes,

1275
02:04:15,160 --> 02:04:18,080
but they're either they are a budding condominiums.

1276
02:04:18,760 --> 02:04:25,180
Zonda references the home which Star mentioned at 128-pound river Paul Vue Drive that was

1277
02:04:25,180 --> 02:04:30,700
damaged by fireworks on July 4th of 2021. They stayed at the mossy in that home for the

1278
02:04:30,700 --> 02:04:36,000
motel expansion quote will be an improvement to the neighborhood in quote. Well the motel owner

1279
02:04:36,000 --> 02:04:40,860
indicated they did not have adequate insurance on the home, so has sat damaged and vacant now

1280
02:04:40,860 --> 02:04:46,900
for over five years. Even after a failure to fix and patch their damaged roof was mentioned

1281
02:04:46,900 --> 02:04:48,840
by the planning board in June,

1282
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:51,400
still nothing has been done since then.

1283
02:04:52,120 --> 02:04:53,660
Seems like the best improvement to the neighborhood

1284
02:04:53,660 --> 02:04:55,920
would be to repair that home,

1285
02:04:55,920 --> 02:04:57,600
or as a residential home,

1286
02:04:57,600 --> 02:04:59,800
instead of tearing it down or replacing it with a motel.

1287
02:05:01,280 --> 02:05:03,200
To further our claim that though fairways in

1288
02:05:03,200 --> 02:05:04,920
is not a beloved motel,

1289
02:05:04,960 --> 02:05:06,400
I would like to comment on the reports

1290
02:05:06,400 --> 02:05:08,060
from the North-Color Fire Department,

1291
02:05:08,300 --> 02:05:09,540
which you also have.

1292
02:05:10,020 --> 02:05:12,000
And to the annual inspection by the fire department

1293
02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:16,060
on August 20th of 2024, over two years ago,

1294
02:05:16,060 --> 02:05:18,720
not one year ago, over two years ago.

1295
02:05:18,980 --> 02:05:23,780
It was discovered that 22 of the 46 Motel Units had kitchenettes,

1296
02:05:24,360 --> 02:05:27,460
not countertops, cooktops, okay?

1297
02:05:27,920 --> 02:05:30,580
Cooktops that were installed without fire suppression systems,

1298
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:33,380
and obviously installed without obtaining proper permits,

1299
02:05:33,860 --> 02:05:36,000
otherwise that would have included fire marshalling infections,

1300
02:05:36,100 --> 02:05:37,100
which they didn't.

1301
02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:40,220
It's unclear when those kitchenists are actually installed

1302
02:05:40,220 --> 02:05:42,040
since no permit for them was issued,

1303
02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:44,720
and they were not mentioned in any prior fire department

1304
02:05:44,720 --> 02:05:50,720
inspection reports prior to August 20, of 2024. At the re-inspection of year later, August

1305
02:05:50,720 --> 02:05:57,200
14, 2025, the cook cops remained with no fire suppression systems or hoods while the owner

1306
02:05:57,200 --> 02:06:02,340
was quote unquote researching options. A further meeting between the fire department and the

1307
02:06:02,340 --> 02:06:08,260
owner occurred in November of last year and again in February of this year, we still was no approved

1308
02:06:08,260 --> 02:06:13,560
plan and place. The most recent fire inspection report which I have given to the court report

1309
02:06:13,560 --> 02:06:19,180
to gave to the owner as well, this force is not in your packet, but that was done last month

1310
02:06:19,180 --> 02:06:19,820
in August.

1311
02:06:21,320 --> 02:06:23,800
And the report highlighted this section of it.

1312
02:06:23,840 --> 02:06:29,340
In any case, some of the stove tops now have been removed and replaced with oven-only units.

1313
02:06:30,060 --> 02:06:35,200
And the rest ought to be replaced by this December, per negrate between the owner and the fire

1314
02:06:35,200 --> 02:06:35,580
department.

1315
02:06:36,240 --> 02:06:41,200
So it's been over two years, and some of the non-permitted, fire inspection violation

1316
02:06:41,200 --> 02:06:43,160
and stovetops still remain.

1317
02:06:44,400 --> 02:06:45,620
Talk about unpermanent permits,

1318
02:06:46,060 --> 02:06:47,500
paddios with tables and umbrellas

1319
02:06:47,500 --> 02:06:50,220
when stalled at the rear of the two-story motel building

1320
02:06:50,220 --> 02:06:52,520
a few years ago, again with no evidence

1321
02:06:52,520 --> 02:06:53,920
of any permits being pulled.

1322
02:06:55,700 --> 02:06:57,820
I'm on the board of the Palm River Homeowners

1323
02:06:57,820 --> 02:06:59,280
and Civic Association.

1324
02:07:00,060 --> 02:07:02,340
The Palm River Homeowners and Civic Association

1325
02:07:02,340 --> 02:07:05,080
serves the residents of Palm River estates

1326
02:07:05,080 --> 02:07:06,900
where the fairway is in is located.

1327
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:10,600
It's a service and civic-minded organization.

1328
02:07:10,600 --> 02:07:13,540
It's not a nature way, and do's are not mandatory.

1329
02:07:14,920 --> 02:07:16,720
It maintains the civic association,

1330
02:07:16,880 --> 02:07:19,040
it maintains the palm river, both our median,

1331
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:22,800
places U.S. flags around the entire community on July 4th,

1332
02:07:22,880 --> 02:07:24,860
of each year, which perhaps you've seen or heard about.

1333
02:07:25,300 --> 02:07:28,540
We are award scholarships to local resident high school seniors.

1334
02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:29,960
We decorate the community.

1335
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:36,420
With lights in Garland for the holidays, including lights and on royal palm trees directly across the

1336
02:07:36,420 --> 02:07:42,660
entrance to the motel. And we all petition local government on behalf of residents among other

1337
02:07:42,660 --> 02:07:49,180
civic minded things. This is all done by unpaid volunteers and voluntary donations. A couple

1338
02:07:49,180 --> 02:07:53,560
of years ago, the owner of the Fairways did ask the Civic Association to endorse the

1339
02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:56,420
zoning plans and we declined.

1340
02:07:58,520 --> 02:08:04,840
We have not paid any dues since the first quarter of 2024, maybe there's a correlation there.

1341
02:08:05,640 --> 02:08:09,200
They also indicated a willingness to help defray some of the cost of the holiday decorations

1342
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:11,060
but no money has ever been received.

1343
02:08:11,680 --> 02:08:17,240
LePly, of course, located in Palm River, pays dues every quarter, voluntarily.

1344
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:18,800
So, it's closing.

1345
02:08:18,800 --> 02:08:23,540
I'd like to advise you to remind you that there are 559 signatures on a petition,

1346
02:08:24,500 --> 02:08:36,540
and the people spoke and the people spoke and the people spoke and the commission voted unanimously six out of not to recommend that it's clearly wrong use for the wrong location and I ask you to deny their petition. Thank you.

1347
02:08:37,580 --> 02:08:40,660
Mr. Chair, our final registered speaker joins us on Zoom.

1348
02:08:41,800 --> 02:08:42,760
And, Lift Cactus.

1349
02:08:43,740 --> 02:08:46,400
And you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

1350
02:08:47,600 --> 02:08:49,220
I see you. Let me do yourself, Anne.

1351
02:08:50,460 --> 02:08:52,160
Thank you so much. Good morning.

1352
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:58,500
and Lef Gakis, Pong River State's homeowner, mom to three, and business on our free businesses,

1353
02:08:59,240 --> 02:09:03,240
including real fitness Naples, it's a fitness facility that sits at a monthly vote in airport

1354
02:09:03,240 --> 02:09:09,960
and has been there for 17 years. My case against the project doesn't rest on opinion,

1355
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:16,640
but on many documented facts by the Collier County's data. First off, it lands on a single most congested

1356
02:09:16,640 --> 02:09:21,320
corridor and will significantly contribute traffic to three of the top ten most

1357
02:09:21,320 --> 02:09:26,000
dangerous intersections in the county. Further 2025 long-range transportation

1358
02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:30,400
plan segment of a mock-ling from good-but-Frank to call your boulevard experiences

1359
02:09:30,400 --> 02:09:35,400
32 minutes at bottleneck conditions and that's roughly 45 percent longer than the

1360
02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:40,100
second highest which is on-pengage. But most importantly, mock-ling road is

1361
02:09:40,100 --> 02:09:44,080
identified as severe crash concentration by the Metropolitan Planning

1362
02:09:44,080 --> 02:09:51,100
organization's 2025 major safety study. The Fairway and Skats will exit the project and immediately join

1363
02:09:51,100 --> 02:09:56,780
an act capacity and extremely dangerous road segment in Naples. Secondly, there's no demonstrated

1364
02:09:56,780 --> 02:10:03,260
market need. A growth management plan amendment changing the land use designation must demonstrate

1365
02:10:03,260 --> 02:10:08,160
need. Downs in the central main research that counties contract to tourism research firm,

1366
02:10:08,160 --> 02:10:16,880
Shears data that the occupation rate in July of 2025 was only 61% in July of 2026 was only 62.2%.

1367
02:10:17,640 --> 02:10:24,680
So barely a 1.2% increase year over year. Adding almost 40% new hotel rooms to a market

1368
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:30,320
that has significantly increased in the hotel motel options with more lodging slated.

1369
02:10:30,900 --> 02:10:35,360
A market that's not increasing dramatically in visitors, we're losing in our national demand

1370
02:10:35,360 --> 02:10:38,900
And already absorbing new supply faster than the tourism is justified.

1371
02:10:39,820 --> 02:10:43,560
It's not a project to public interest framework of the World Management Plan should accommodate.

1372
02:10:44,280 --> 02:10:48,380
Instead, it's a project that responds to the applicant's interest and not the community need.

1373
02:10:49,180 --> 02:10:53,660
Lastly, I want to draw attention to the dramatic changes within Plum River, the residential streets,

1374
02:10:54,220 --> 02:10:57,400
as a traffic impact study conducted a couple of years back,

1375
02:10:57,860 --> 02:11:01,520
doesn't factor in our third housing that will be completed by the end of this year.

1376
02:11:01,520 --> 02:11:06,740
With the 41 housing units on the same street as the end, that impact study wouldn't be an

1377
02:11:06,740 --> 02:11:10,820
accurate reflection of an inclusive likely 80 vehicles in the coming months.

1378
02:11:11,640 --> 02:11:15,700
Those residents will generate daily trips to work, appointments, shopping, dining, and other

1379
02:11:15,700 --> 02:11:17,940
activities through home-line residential streets.

1380
02:11:18,660 --> 02:11:23,460
So we're not simply discussing traffic as it existed a few years back, but instead the cumulative

1381
02:11:23,460 --> 02:11:25,560
impact of what is coming next.

1382
02:11:26,200 --> 02:11:30,180
Commissioner McDonald has spoken about the government's responsibility to care for public

1383
02:11:30,180 --> 02:11:30,580
safety.

1384
02:11:30,580 --> 02:11:35,140
I thank you for your service and ask that you keep that responsibility at the forefront today.

1385
02:11:35,680 --> 02:11:41,560
Since we already have many documented safety issues for the county as a whole, congestion, increased traffic coming,

1386
02:11:41,700 --> 02:11:44,500
and the evidence of a public need for additional rooms is questionable.

1387
02:11:45,240 --> 02:11:48,040
I respectfully ask that you do decline the petition as request.

1388
02:11:48,900 --> 02:11:49,620
Thank you.

1389
02:11:49,780 --> 02:11:51,060
Thank you.

1390
02:11:51,680 --> 02:11:53,000
Those are final register speakers.

1391
02:11:53,080 --> 02:11:54,200
Those are final register speakers.

1392
02:11:58,060 --> 02:11:59,200
Thank you, Chairman.

1393
02:12:01,060 --> 02:12:06,980
I have a few comments at the end, but before that, I think it's fair to just propose.

1394
02:12:07,200 --> 02:12:13,120
It's up to the chairman's discretion, but when there's so many public speakers and I hope you took good notes,

1395
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:16,680
I'd like to hear from the applicant and hear your rebuttal.

1396
02:12:17,060 --> 02:12:22,620
Here's a couple of things that I wrote down that I definitely would like to hear and you're, and obviously you can address anything.

1397
02:12:22,620 --> 02:12:27,360
But the status of the burned out house, why it's taken so long,

1398
02:12:29,500 --> 02:12:31,540
is any part of your plan addressing

1399
02:12:31,540 --> 02:12:32,700
on street parking?

1400
02:12:32,780 --> 02:12:34,360
Has a traffic study been done?

1401
02:12:34,720 --> 02:12:37,860
Maybe that's something you left out of your presentation, because that was some big concerns

1402
02:12:37,860 --> 02:12:38,620
of the citizens.

1403
02:12:39,300 --> 02:12:40,840
Can you address the sheriff calls?

1404
02:12:41,280 --> 02:12:45,680
And I'll preface it by saying, I bet if I lined up, you know, and I'm not taking a side here,

1405
02:12:47,280 --> 02:12:50,700
but we see numbers like that for even some of the nicest hotels.

1406
02:12:51,420 --> 02:12:55,980
But every issue is different, so, you know, if that's something that where you had concern,

1407
02:12:56,540 --> 02:13:01,820
or hey, the majority of them were lockouts and we, we had fixed that or whatever, but I wanted to address that.

1408
02:13:02,280 --> 02:13:07,720
The school bus removal, that's something that, I don't, maybe Commissioner Hall would have that information,

1409
02:13:07,840 --> 02:13:12,000
but that's not something that would have been presented to us, so somebody says it was removed for safety.

1410
02:13:13,140 --> 02:13:18,600
You know, that's a big statement, I'd like to know if that was true or not, if you were made aware of that.

1411
02:13:19,540 --> 02:13:24,700
And then lastly, but I've already covered this, just they're in traffic flow adjustments,

1412
02:13:24,940 --> 02:13:26,040
but we already talked about that.

1413
02:13:26,140 --> 02:13:33,360
And that goes online with parking, you know, if this was approved, is that a big portion

1414
02:13:33,360 --> 02:13:37,940
of your plan to make those adjustments, because we didn't hear anything about that.

1415
02:13:37,960 --> 02:13:41,660
And then, you know, feel free anything that you heard, it's not a debate back and forth,

1416
02:13:41,700 --> 02:13:46,280
but I think you have the right to be able to, you know, correct the record or give your honest

1417
02:13:46,280 --> 02:13:48,840
assessment if that's, if that's okay with the chairman.

1418
02:13:49,660 --> 02:13:53,340
Well that's typically what we do. We do elected petitioner go ahead and address anything

1419
02:13:53,340 --> 02:13:58,460
they may have heard during public comment, typical how we usually handle these hearings.

1420
02:13:59,180 --> 02:14:03,340
And I was going to give him the opportunity to do that if he chooses to, I just figure

1421
02:14:03,340 --> 02:14:05,300
if you guys any of the questions prior to that.

1422
02:14:05,300 --> 02:14:09,520
I do have a few questions, but it's going to be for staff after.

1423
02:14:10,180 --> 02:14:12,680
Sir, you're more and welcome if you want to go ahead and address anything.

1424
02:14:12,680 --> 02:14:14,520
Thank you very much.

1425
02:14:14,660 --> 02:14:16,480
I'd like to address all those issues.

1426
02:14:22,730 --> 02:14:27,290
I guess the simplest one is the burned out house.

1427
02:14:27,770 --> 02:14:29,570
This is the burned out house.

1428
02:14:29,890 --> 02:14:31,670
I took this picture.

1429
02:14:31,810 --> 02:14:32,250
Ooh.

1430
02:14:36,180 --> 02:14:36,900
Do as my adjective.

1431
02:14:49,860 --> 02:14:53,000
It looks like any other house in Paul River.

1432
02:14:54,340 --> 02:14:56,500
If you go by it, the lawn is maintained.

1433
02:14:56,620 --> 02:14:58,040
Hey, hey.

1434
02:14:58,620 --> 02:14:59,200
I'm serious.

1435
02:14:59,400 --> 02:14:59,960
I'm serious.

1436
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:07,000
So when I say people, please, please, you had your chance. You had your time. Nobody interrupted you.

1437
02:15:09,220 --> 02:15:16,060
I'll be civil. I don't think it's an isor. It looks like any other house. I did not actively go to

1438
02:15:16,060 --> 02:15:22,040
how your county appraisal office and ask them to reduce the value because it's been burned out.

1439
02:15:22,500 --> 02:15:27,540
A number of properties were reduced in value after Hurricane Ian hit.

1440
02:15:27,860 --> 02:15:32,780
So that's the simplest one. As far as the bus stop being removed from the back of the

1441
02:15:32,780 --> 02:15:37,140
motel, my underpass. Can I sort of request your report? Because you do have this photo up

1442
02:15:37,140 --> 02:15:42,920
while you have it up. You see the left of the eve on the garage, the giant hole on the roof,

1443
02:15:43,660 --> 02:15:50,200
you're referring to that damage to exist today. It does. That all does exist today and the house is not occupied.

1444
02:15:51,760 --> 02:16:04,320
As far as the bus stop being eliminated my understanding is that the school children who used that bus stop moved on to higher level of grades and it was no longer necessary.

1445
02:16:04,320 --> 02:16:12,760
there wasn't enough students to justify the bus stop being there. As far as lockouts and

1446
02:16:12,760 --> 02:16:19,680
calling 911, there is a phone right at the our lobby closes at 8 o'clock. There's a phone

1447
02:16:19,680 --> 02:16:26,380
outside and anybody who's locked out could call there are three employees who live

1448
02:16:26,380 --> 02:16:34,080
either on site or on the homes next to the hotel and they will let the guests in.

1449
02:16:34,080 --> 02:16:43,020
So that's not a use of county resources to get guests who have been locked out.

1450
02:16:44,840 --> 02:16:51,800
As far as not being loved by the neighborhood, Mr. Bader stated that

1451
02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:56,160
many neighbors would

1452
02:16:56,160 --> 02:17:00,960
be glad if the fairways didn't expand, perhaps didn't even exist.

1453
02:17:00,960 --> 02:17:17,280
This slide shows over the last five years the number of Paul River referrals where family and friends of people who live in Paul River have stayed based upon the referral of residents of the subdivision.

1454
02:17:18,000 --> 02:17:21,960
And it's steady this year we're on record to have our strongest year.

1455
02:17:23,020 --> 02:17:29,200
2021 was right after Hurricaneine where there weren't many options and people wanted to be

1456
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:35,020
close to loved ones in the neighborhood, but this shows tremendous support what we're not

1457
02:17:35,020 --> 02:17:43,260
hearing from today. As far as not contributing to the subdivision, for 27 years we voluntarily

1458
02:17:43,260 --> 02:17:51,700
paid dues on 13 lots, 6 for the motel, and the 7 homes next to it. In 2026,

1459
02:17:54,420 --> 02:17:55,120
the invoice

1460
02:17:55,120 --> 02:18:02,980
was the recommendation was not mailed out, and we missed paying the dues on the 13 lots.

1461
02:18:03,400 --> 02:18:10,740
But for 27 years, we paid them on 13 lots. If we hone the 13 homes, if it was 8 during

1462
02:18:10,740 --> 02:18:14,940
at time we paid on eight. So we have contributed to the subdivision.

1463
02:18:18,670 --> 02:18:19,650
And I guess the biggest

1464
02:18:19,650 --> 02:18:27,830
issue is right here. This is a letter from chief lens from the fire district of North

1465
02:18:27,830 --> 02:18:34,810
Collier, Fire Control and Rescue District. And if I can just read a little of it, the

1466
02:18:34,810 --> 02:18:40,230
part that's highlighted says throughout this process, the property owner has cooperated

1467
02:18:40,230 --> 02:18:47,550
with a fire district and has provided assistance in researching and locating historical documents

1468
02:18:47,550 --> 02:18:54,930
associated with the property. In particular, older plans for both the two story and the one

1469
02:18:54,930 --> 02:19:02,150
story buildings were located and provided for review. These plans demonstrated that the kitchen areas

1470
02:19:02,150 --> 02:19:09,530
associated with cooking facilities existed as part of the building conditions since the time

1471
02:19:09,530 --> 02:19:10,490
of construction.

1472
02:19:11,470 --> 02:19:16,430
The property owners proceeding with the agreed upon corrective measures in accordance with

1473
02:19:16,430 --> 02:19:22,050
this schedule established through discussions with a fire district.

1474
02:19:22,170 --> 02:19:27,130
At this time, the remaining cooking appliance conversions are scheduled to be completed

1475
02:19:27,130 --> 02:19:32,010
by the end of calendar year 2026, unless completed earlier.

1476
02:19:32,570 --> 02:19:38,470
North Calier Fire District appreciates the cooperation demonstrated by the property owner

1477
02:19:38,470 --> 02:19:45,850
throughout this process. That is written by chief lens, and it's a foretraced, a slightly

1478
02:19:45,850 --> 02:19:53,430
different perspective of what was portrayed by the neighbors who want to create their own narrative.

1479
02:19:54,970 --> 02:19:57,910
Commissioner of LaCosta was there anything else that you had in your notes?

1480
02:19:59,330 --> 02:20:08,450
Yes sir. Thank you very much. I did have a four minute concluding remark, but I don't know if you

1481
02:20:30,640 --> 02:20:35,040
here's just other pictures quickly of the fairways as it looks now.

1482
02:20:38,640 --> 02:20:39,840
Okay. As I was growing

1483
02:20:39,840 --> 02:20:46,920
up and into my adult life, my father taught me a simple rule. Live your life defensively.

1484
02:20:47,720 --> 02:20:54,260
If there is a line you should not cross, don't even get close to it. He meant that rule to apply

1485
02:20:54,260 --> 02:21:01,720
to both my personal conduct and my business. For the past 28 years that principle has guided the way,

1486
02:21:01,720 --> 02:21:04,500
I've operated the fairways in.

1487
02:21:05,140 --> 02:21:07,640
More than a quarter, for more than a quarter of a century,

1488
02:21:07,900 --> 02:21:12,140
code enforcement issues that the fairways were virtually non-existent.

1489
02:21:13,640 --> 02:21:17,780
And when an issue did arise, we addressed it and corrected it.

1490
02:21:18,100 --> 02:21:21,820
Our businesses thrive that we've been fortunate to have the support

1491
02:21:21,820 --> 02:21:25,300
of the surrounding community, despite what others said,

1492
02:21:25,660 --> 02:21:28,400
which is measured by the Palm River referrals.

1493
02:21:29,700 --> 02:21:36,040
Then, over the past year, we experienced a sudden increase in code-related scrutiny.

1494
02:21:36,740 --> 02:21:39,060
It's fair to ask what changed.

1495
02:21:39,840 --> 02:21:41,660
Our philosophy did not change.

1496
02:21:42,520 --> 02:21:44,560
Our operations did not change.

1497
02:21:45,140 --> 02:21:50,820
In fact, we continue to improve and invest in the property both physically and operationally.

1498
02:21:51,300 --> 02:21:57,080
What changed was a level of scrutiny surrounding the property, along with the circulation

1499
02:21:57,080 --> 02:22:02,360
of allegation that many cases have been unfounded or inaccurate.

1500
02:22:03,560 --> 02:22:08,960
That scrutiny began after I requested permission to replace four contiguous homes that

1501
02:22:08,960 --> 02:22:14,140
I've owned for more than 20 years on average with 30 additional hotel rooms.

1502
02:22:15,580 --> 02:22:21,740
I understand that some people have concerns with that request, and I respect the right

1503
02:22:21,740 --> 02:22:23,660
to express those concerns.

1504
02:22:23,660 --> 02:22:29,980
But I also believe it is important that decisions about this property be based on facts.

1505
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:42,440
Not assumptions or allegations. When a legitimate issue has been brought to our attention, we have done what we have always done, address it and correct it.

1506
02:22:42,920 --> 02:22:56,300
For more than three decades, the fairways has continued to evolve into a property with comfortable accommodations, lush gardens, and a special old Florida character that are guests value.

1507
02:22:56,300 --> 02:22:59,480
You don't have to take my word for it.

1508
02:22:59,800 --> 02:23:06,180
Are exceptionally high employee retention and very strong gas rankings demonstrates that

1509
02:23:06,180 --> 02:23:08,200
we are doing many things right.

1510
02:23:09,300 --> 02:23:16,100
Today, I'm asking for the opportunity to responsibly and modestly expand this long-standing

1511
02:23:16,100 --> 02:23:21,440
collier county business while preserving the character that has made the fairways in

1512
02:23:21,440 --> 02:23:24,100
part of this community for 60 years.

1513
02:23:25,740 --> 02:23:31,620
We've continually reinvested into the property, we've maintained it, upgraded it, and adapted

1514
02:23:31,620 --> 02:23:34,480
it to meet the needs of our guests and our employees.

1515
02:23:35,680 --> 02:23:40,000
Today's request is simply the next step in that long-standing approach.

1516
02:23:41,500 --> 02:23:47,520
Commissioners, I understand that the concerns being raised here place you in a difficult

1517
02:23:47,520 --> 02:23:53,120
position, and I want to assure you that I will approach this next phase of the fairways

1518
02:23:53,120 --> 02:23:59,500
development in exactly the same way I've approached it in the past 28 years, ethically,

1519
02:24:00,340 --> 02:24:05,220
responsibly, and with care and respect for the property and the community of which it is

1520
02:24:05,220 --> 02:24:12,240
apart. And as I have always done, I will operate and full compliance with rules and regulations

1521
02:24:12,240 --> 02:24:18,260
that apply to this property. Again, you don't have to take my word for that. All you have

1522
02:24:18,260 --> 02:24:22,920
to do is look at how I've managed the fair ways in for the past three decades.

1523
02:24:24,260 --> 02:24:30,520
For all of these reasons, I respectfully ask that you approve a rezoning request and

1524
02:24:30,520 --> 02:24:34,680
allow us to move forward with creating 30 additional rooms.

1525
02:24:35,500 --> 02:24:39,500
Thank you for your time and consideration, and I'd be happy to answer any questions.

1526
02:24:40,280 --> 02:24:43,300
I get forget to address the 911 calls.

1527
02:24:44,040 --> 02:24:45,060
I'm sorry about that.

1528
02:24:46,140 --> 02:24:46,720
Three things.

1529
02:24:47,120 --> 02:24:49,180
We do have an elderly clientele.

1530
02:24:51,310 --> 02:24:53,710
A number of the calls, most recently,

1531
02:24:54,650 --> 02:24:57,130
were kids knocking on the doors

1532
02:24:57,130 --> 02:24:59,370
of the guests at night

1533
02:24:59,370 --> 02:25:00,790
and running away.

1534
02:25:01,610 --> 02:25:02,670
They had been identified

1535
02:25:02,670 --> 02:25:08,410
and the police have talked to the family

1536
02:25:08,410 --> 02:25:09,610
and it has stopped.

1537
02:25:09,610 --> 02:25:15,590
And the third thing has been mentioned here before, there are 1,500 units, and Paul

1538
02:25:15,590 --> 02:25:16,030
Mrever.

1539
02:25:16,690 --> 02:25:23,290
We are at the intersection of the major exiting point and entrance to a mockery road.

1540
02:25:24,030 --> 02:25:30,490
If there's an accident at that intersection, our address is geolocated to that, and it shows

1541
02:25:30,490 --> 02:25:44,210
up as a 911 for fair ways in. It is not an area that has unusual issues, and that's all I

1542
02:25:44,210 --> 02:25:47,250
had to say, and if you had any questions, I'd be glad to answer them.

1543
02:25:47,990 --> 02:25:52,550
Mr. Hall, is there any other questions for you?

1544
02:25:52,550 --> 02:25:55,670
I don't have any questions for you, Steve. Thank you.

1545
02:25:55,670 --> 02:25:57,570
Thank you.

1546
02:25:58,410 --> 02:26:07,610
I do want to address one of my thoughts about why does the staff recommendation differ from planning commission.

1547
02:26:08,710 --> 02:26:14,550
Staff's perspective usually comes with is the project possible.

1548
02:26:15,310 --> 02:26:18,310
Is it possible to, you know, can, is it make sense?

1549
02:26:18,950 --> 02:26:21,610
Possibility wise. That's why we get the recommendation.

1550
02:26:21,610 --> 02:26:27,950
Planning Commission takes some other things in the consideration, as well as we take totally different things in the consideration.

1551
02:26:29,570 --> 02:26:32,310
You know, it's not, this project, it's well thought out.

1552
02:26:33,310 --> 02:26:40,070
It's pretty, you know, it's not whether, you know, it's an eye sore or not with me.

1553
02:26:40,110 --> 02:26:43,990
It's a fundamental, should we reason or should we not?

1554
02:26:44,270 --> 02:26:46,110
This is not emotional for me.

1555
02:26:46,110 --> 02:26:52,090
I'm not mad because he's asking, and I'm not impressed because they have a great fairway

1556
02:26:52,090 --> 02:26:53,610
family and the way that they operate.

1557
02:26:54,390 --> 02:26:57,450
I'm not, I don't even care about that.

1558
02:26:57,510 --> 02:27:01,490
It's not that I don't care, that doesn't weigh in my decision.

1559
02:27:01,850 --> 02:27:08,350
It's just a fundamental thing with me should we reason and put commercial property in the

1560
02:27:08,350 --> 02:27:10,270
residential area or should we not?

1561
02:27:14,280 --> 02:27:26,280
I'm not comparing this petition with anything else that we've done, we may have made some good decisions in the past, we may have made some bad decisions in the past, that doesn't matter with this petition.

1562
02:27:27,600 --> 02:27:30,680
I'm looking at this petition as a stand-alone petition.

1563
02:27:32,280 --> 02:27:40,920
The, the owner has every legal right as Commissioner LaCastro said he has every legal right to ask for this petition.

1564
02:27:42,360 --> 02:27:51,080
But we are under no legal obligation to obligate everybody can ask whether we say yes or whether we say no that's our decision.

1565
02:27:52,160 --> 02:27:55,540
So with that, I'm going to stick with my guns, I've listened to the people.

1566
02:27:55,540 --> 02:27:59,380
I've had numerous conversations, I've had numerous emails.

1567
02:28:00,240 --> 02:28:04,120
They don't want to see the commercial pushed into their residential area.

1568
02:28:06,060 --> 02:28:10,800
The owner has every right to operate his business as it stands.

1569
02:28:11,480 --> 02:28:13,140
He's done a great job.

1570
02:28:13,320 --> 02:28:14,900
I love the way every picture looks.

1571
02:28:15,380 --> 02:28:16,560
I love the way it's managed.

1572
02:28:16,940 --> 02:28:18,000
I love your passion.

1573
02:28:18,420 --> 02:28:19,540
I love all of that.

1574
02:28:19,820 --> 02:28:22,400
And you've done a great job as you stand.

1575
02:28:22,400 --> 02:28:31,460
So I'm going to stick with that. I'm going to make the motion as the commissioner in the district and listening to the people to deny the petition.

1576
02:28:32,940 --> 02:28:37,580
And there again, it's not an emotional decision from me. It's just a fundamental decision.

1577
02:28:37,880 --> 02:28:39,460
And I hope the others will join me.

1578
02:28:41,480 --> 02:28:43,200
If two other commissioners want to make comments.

1579
02:28:45,160 --> 02:28:46,120
Do you want to make the motion?

1580
02:28:47,160 --> 02:28:49,340
I made the motion to deny the petition.

1581
02:28:49,340 --> 02:28:53,720
Okay. All right. Have a motion to deny the petition. Do we have a second?

1582
02:28:57,570 --> 02:28:59,250
I think Mr. Chairman. Go ahead.

1583
02:29:00,790 --> 02:29:05,150
Just as a matter of proceed here. Can we listen to all the other commissioners?

1584
02:29:05,330 --> 02:29:07,590
That's what I was trying to get to see if you want to hold his vote.

1585
02:29:07,930 --> 02:29:09,870
I'll be motion. I'll withdraw it till we get going.

1586
02:29:10,390 --> 02:29:12,710
Okay. Let's just go ahead and do that.

1587
02:29:12,730 --> 02:29:13,410
Commissioner Lacaster.

1588
02:29:13,710 --> 02:29:14,290
Thank you, Chairman.

1589
02:29:16,030 --> 02:29:19,270
I'm weighing things, you know, as we all do, a little bit different perspective.

1590
02:29:19,270 --> 02:29:22,830
I think it does matter the reputation of the owner.

1591
02:29:22,970 --> 02:29:28,550
We've had people come in here that we're not good stewards of their property, whether they're

1592
02:29:28,550 --> 02:29:30,110
for 30 years or three years.

1593
02:29:30,490 --> 02:29:36,070
I think it does matter, and it's not in your particular case, but who the developer is, sometimes

1594
02:29:36,070 --> 02:29:38,850
we have a developer, it has no track record and those ways.

1595
02:29:39,470 --> 02:29:45,170
For me, maybe I have a bigger aperture and I'm not saying one side's right or wrong, but I take

1596
02:29:45,170 --> 02:29:50,590
everything at a consideration. I think it's a bigger muscle movement. If let's say it was

1597
02:29:50,590 --> 02:29:55,670
its own residential and had no commercial on it, and you're looking to a boy swinging the

1598
02:29:55,670 --> 02:29:59,470
pranks along the other way. You have commercial on it. You're just looking to expand.

1599
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:15,820
So I'm not saying it makes it right. I'm an automatic vote or anything, but there is a difference between the two. And I do look at things that we do in the past, because even though we take each, I hope we take each case individually, we also do look at precedent.

1600
02:30:16,060 --> 02:30:25,400
And sometimes we vote or don't vote for something, usually don't vote for something, because we're worried that there's very similar things that could come to us.

1601
02:30:25,400 --> 02:30:27,300
And even though we take everything separately,

1602
02:30:28,300 --> 02:30:29,900
that next person's going to come in and go,

1603
02:30:30,020 --> 02:30:33,080
well, you did it for the hotel access or whatever.

1604
02:30:34,600 --> 02:30:36,180
This one's a bit different.

1605
02:30:36,320 --> 02:30:38,060
Sometimes when we see black and white cases,

1606
02:30:38,100 --> 02:30:40,360
that's where at least I look at the precedent.

1607
02:30:40,800 --> 02:30:42,820
Somebody wants a bigger park and a lot of storage in it.

1608
02:30:42,900 --> 02:30:45,400
It's like, OK, we're going to see a fair amount of those.

1609
02:30:45,640 --> 02:30:46,920
This is a commercial area.

1610
02:30:48,080 --> 02:30:49,420
And here's the things that I'm weighing.

1611
02:30:49,600 --> 02:30:53,580
And maybe the comments of my colleagues will help me.

1612
02:30:53,580 --> 02:30:59,600
got to get a better perspective. I certainly always have the greatest respect for the commissioner

1613
02:30:59,600 --> 02:31:05,800
who's over that district, but then also too, I'm a separate vote. And I'm not a big guy on

1614
02:31:05,800 --> 02:31:09,780
popularity contest. You know, hey, none of the citizens want it. Well, a lot of times none of the

1615
02:31:09,780 --> 02:31:13,900
citizens want anything. You know, they want everything to be a dog park, and they don't want it,

1616
02:31:14,240 --> 02:31:19,560
you know, but when they're, when they're land was zone agriculture 25 years ago,

1617
02:31:19,560 --> 02:31:24,340
and somebody was in here trying to get a rezoned to residential, it was approved, and then

1618
02:31:24,340 --> 02:31:29,100
all their beautiful homes were built, and they love living in paradise, that's different.

1619
02:31:29,400 --> 02:31:35,020
Then they're happy all that happened previously, or when people say, you know, you're turning

1620
02:31:35,020 --> 02:31:38,360
this place to Miami, you've got to put a big lock on the gate, well, you know what, before

1621
02:31:38,360 --> 02:31:43,080
a lot of us moved here, the people that were already here, they didn't want any of us here either.

1622
02:31:43,400 --> 02:31:48,040
So, you know, you've got to, you have to sort of weigh, and I think even your employees

1623
02:31:48,040 --> 02:31:51,940
saying like what kind of boss you are and everything, I'm not saying that that makes this an

1624
02:31:51,940 --> 02:31:56,080
automatic yes but you know we don't always hear that either so you know are you going to

1625
02:31:56,080 --> 02:32:02,980
be somebody that is responsible if this was past I have no doubt but also too we don't just

1626
02:32:02,980 --> 02:32:07,560
rub or snap these things but you know in closing I would just say these are the things I'm

1627
02:32:07,560 --> 02:32:14,620
weighing right now there's a difference between just expansion and upgrade there's a difference

1628
02:32:14,620 --> 02:32:18,340
between just changing something and improving something.

1629
02:32:18,620 --> 02:32:23,780
And you have a beautiful place, but in some areas it's pretty dated and it looks like

1630
02:32:23,780 --> 02:32:26,120
you have a plan to upgrade it.

1631
02:32:26,820 --> 02:32:30,680
One of the things I sort of cautioned citizens at times, and this is maybe more of a generic

1632
02:32:30,680 --> 02:32:34,800
statement, but when they sort of hate something, in Commissioner McDaniel, I was mentioned

1633
02:32:34,800 --> 02:32:42,600
this several times and was always right, you might hate it, but it might be way better

1634
02:32:42,600 --> 02:32:49,620
than what could come down the road so be careful what you wish for because then there could be

1635
02:32:49,620 --> 02:32:53,900
something especially with live local and how a lot of rules change where you won't have

1636
02:32:53,900 --> 02:33:01,480
a big conversation in here. There'll be things possibly that might come that will automatically

1637
02:33:01,480 --> 02:33:06,280
be permitted. Now having said that, that's a bit hypothetical. So I won't sit here and just say,

1638
02:33:06,520 --> 02:33:11,440
hey, we're going to shove this down your throat because there's a slight possibility that a giant

1639
02:33:11,440 --> 02:33:17,480
Mary could get this property in a few years and it won't be a big debate if certain rules

1640
02:33:17,480 --> 02:33:23,440
and things change, but I look at it as I like the upgrade, I like the improvement,

1641
02:33:23,620 --> 02:33:25,140
I'm concerned about the parking.

1642
02:33:25,980 --> 02:33:32,900
If this was approved that hasn't been part of your plan, no, just wait, and you can, you know,

1643
02:33:33,360 --> 02:33:37,780
your reply can always be like it'd make it part of it, but you know, that part really resonated

1644
02:33:37,780 --> 02:33:42,140
with me with residents, you know, that parking on the street and things like that. I'm not saying

1645
02:33:42,140 --> 02:33:48,500
it's a ginormous show stopper. It's not like you have a motel with 1,100 rooms, but it does

1646
02:33:48,500 --> 02:33:54,760
matter, you're in a residential area. You know, one thing I would say about the house, I know,

1647
02:33:54,780 --> 02:33:59,480
as soon as the picture went up, we heard all the moans. One of the things I tell citizens is you

1648
02:33:59,480 --> 02:34:04,700
can come with pictures too. So if you happen to show a photo, that may be hid all the damage

1649
02:34:04,700 --> 02:34:09,120
that and that's why they were upset, you know, any one of the 17 speakers could have thrown

1650
02:34:09,120 --> 02:34:12,820
up slides and said, this is what I have to look up every day and I don't have a crystal

1651
02:34:12,820 --> 02:34:13,180
ball.

1652
02:34:13,860 --> 02:34:17,720
So, you know, Commissioner Hallsman out there, I'd love to know if that picture really did

1653
02:34:17,720 --> 02:34:24,720
represent what happened and I know in my district, I still have, I'll take a look at that.

1654
02:34:24,720 --> 02:34:32,040
I still have homes that were destroyed by Irma, even before I was a her, before I was

1655
02:34:32,040 --> 02:34:36,560
Commissioner got her still sitting there, you know, so I mean, I have a little bit of a

1656
02:34:37,620 --> 02:34:43,080
understanding of that, but, you know, and, you know, Commissioner McDonough, I was

1657
02:34:43,080 --> 02:34:47,400
as a great way of sort of summing up things, but so I wanted to sort of set the table and say,

1658
02:34:47,700 --> 02:34:53,160
I'm weighing expansion versus upgrade change versus improvement, and if we lean towards

1659
02:34:53,160 --> 02:34:59,340
this project, would you be the person that would do it in a way that was an extremely

1660
02:34:59,340 --> 02:35:04,000
responsible way, and would you walk out of here taking the inputs from the citizens about

1661
02:35:04,000 --> 02:35:07,440
what they are concerned about and try to lessen that concern.

1662
02:35:07,980 --> 02:35:13,500
But then also, you know, the big 800-pound URL in the room is making a change to the growth

1663
02:35:13,500 --> 02:35:17,060
management plan is a big major muscle movement that we don't take lightly.

1664
02:35:17,500 --> 02:35:22,700
I can say this isn't the biggest change we have ever heard about the growth management plan,

1665
02:35:22,700 --> 02:35:24,300
but it does come into play.

1666
02:35:24,300 --> 02:35:30,820
So if it was something that I didn't support, even if all those other things are true about

1667
02:35:30,820 --> 02:35:38,680
improvement and making the community better and upgrading this entire facility, does

1668
02:35:38,680 --> 02:35:45,960
it out way swing in the pendulum in the growth management plan to give you approval.

1669
02:35:46,240 --> 02:35:49,800
But you know, you already have commercial on it and a lot of times what we see when somebody

1670
02:35:49,800 --> 02:35:57,440
for a change in zoning is it is a complete zoning change. And those are big muscle movements.

1671
02:35:57,620 --> 02:36:01,580
I look at this one being a little bit more in the middle. So I'm a little bit, you know, I'm struggling

1672
02:36:01,580 --> 02:36:06,660
on this one because I, you know, I like, you know, property owners have rights. I like to see

1673
02:36:06,660 --> 02:36:12,260
projects come to us that are going to be upgrades, improvements, modernize, something.

1674
02:36:13,200 --> 02:36:17,700
I don't see you exponentially expanding this, but it has a couple of loose ends in parking and

1675
02:36:17,700 --> 02:36:23,060
of the other things but that could just vote could be delayed and it could say bring us a better

1676
02:36:23,060 --> 02:36:27,380
better proposal. You don't have to spend a whole lot of money to create a couple more powerpoint

1677
02:36:27,380 --> 02:36:33,200
slides and maybe have a meeting with the citizens and say what would I have to do for you to hate

1678
02:36:33,200 --> 02:36:39,180
this less? But I can say this isn't something that came before me that I hate across the board

1679
02:36:39,180 --> 02:36:46,020
no matter what you do. There's a few loose ends and I do like some of the improvements that

1680
02:36:46,020 --> 02:36:47,640
you would be making across the board of this.

1681
02:36:47,640 --> 02:36:50,120
So before we kind of poop without a way,

1682
02:36:50,800 --> 02:36:52,640
you know, we probably want to be really careful

1683
02:36:52,640 --> 02:36:56,900
as a commission up here, because this is a one,

1684
02:36:57,140 --> 02:36:59,920
one-time thing, but I'll turn it over to Commissioner McDaniel.

1685
02:37:01,160 --> 02:37:02,160
I just want to lay my head at it.

1686
02:37:02,280 --> 02:37:02,900
I wasn't.

1687
02:37:02,960 --> 02:37:03,460
Oh yeah, I wanted to.

1688
02:37:03,820 --> 02:37:07,060
Is that the pick with this roof looks like now?

1689
02:37:07,700 --> 02:37:08,560
Does it an aerial picture?

1690
02:37:12,990 --> 02:37:16,090
OK, so I'm just going to share it with the colleague that was there.

1691
02:37:16,810 --> 02:37:18,690
All right, so you said, yes, that's what it looks like still

1692
02:37:18,690 --> 02:37:24,370
So that had an idea of what it was at the worst time.

1693
02:37:25,330 --> 02:37:26,010
Mr. McDaniel.

1694
02:37:26,570 --> 02:37:27,550
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1695
02:37:27,970 --> 02:37:29,930
You know what I heard out of all that?

1696
02:37:30,000 --> 02:37:34,760
Disretation? Commissioner McDaniel is always right.

1697
02:37:36,780 --> 02:37:38,760
It's a matter of public records.

1698
02:37:38,820 --> 02:37:42,320
Terry strike that for the record. I did not say that.

1699
02:37:42,360 --> 02:37:47,320
I think he did. First of all, Stevie did a good job on a presentation.

1700
02:37:48,620 --> 02:37:54,280
I have no argument that you've done your best to run a business and a residential neighborhood.

1701
02:37:54,280 --> 02:37:58,780
I have run businesses and close proximity.

1702
02:37:59,200 --> 02:38:04,220
You want a little fun, permut yourself, a fill pit sometime and run mining operation

1703
02:38:04,220 --> 02:38:05,720
and residential neighborhood.

1704
02:38:07,860 --> 02:38:11,180
I have concerns about your request in all candor.

1705
02:38:12,420 --> 02:38:15,260
I'm inclined to not support your request.

1706
02:38:16,220 --> 02:38:23,780
My question for the county attorney and I want to disclare if I, the RT zoning that's

1707
02:38:23,780 --> 02:38:32,000
front. Does it currently qualify for live local? Yes. Yes. If we were to expand the request to

1708
02:38:32,000 --> 02:38:37,780
the four acres plus minus the entire four acres would then qualify for live local. Yes. And for

1709
02:38:37,780 --> 02:38:46,400
those who don't know live local is a very disappointing law that was put upon us by the

1710
02:38:46,400 --> 02:38:53,440
legislature some time ago, but allows for housing affordability at a very, very high

1711
02:38:53,440 --> 02:38:59,660
density with a little to no communication, participation or discussion with the neighborhood.

1712
02:39:01,140 --> 02:39:08,580
And that is, I'm very much, and anybody who knows me, I've been an advocate for and

1713
02:39:08,580 --> 02:39:11,920
will continue to fight for your property rights.

1714
02:39:11,920 --> 02:39:19,000
Your property rights on your commercial property that you have are sacred, expanding those

1715
02:39:19,500 --> 02:39:27,120
with those additional residences. I can't live for. I want to caution the neighborhood.

1716
02:39:30,240 --> 02:39:34,860
You heard at the beginning of this, I asked the question of our staff, what are the height limitations.

1717
02:39:35,880 --> 02:39:41,040
He does have the right to go to 100 feet on that acre and a half up front.

1718
02:39:42,660 --> 02:39:46,700
He can do that with little to no communication with the neighborhood whatsoever.

1719
02:39:46,700 --> 02:39:54,360
If he chooses to do that, I will defend those rights that he's asking for just as adamantly

1720
02:39:54,360 --> 02:40:03,480
as I am suggesting that expanding those commercial rights are not appropriate in this particular location.

1721
02:40:07,130 --> 02:40:07,410
Mr. Sauder.

1722
02:40:07,950 --> 02:40:08,470
Thank you.

1723
02:40:08,530 --> 02:40:09,270
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1724
02:40:09,830 --> 02:40:14,110
The live local issue, Commissioner Kang, I think is an important one.

1725
02:40:14,110 --> 02:40:21,610
There are a couple points that I was kind of happy to hear come from the county commission.

1726
02:40:22,370 --> 02:40:28,390
The issue, Commissioner Hall, of amending the comp plan, especially in the residential

1727
02:40:28,390 --> 02:40:33,430
area, I understand that you have some reluctance to doing that.

1728
02:40:33,590 --> 02:40:41,130
I've kind of raised that issue myself in the past, some of the comp plan changes we've made

1729
02:40:41,130 --> 02:40:44,370
on a mockery road and on the beach road.

1730
02:40:44,470 --> 02:40:47,530
So I think that we're sending a message, I think,

1731
02:40:48,190 --> 02:40:53,630
to the development world that a many in the comp plan

1732
02:40:53,630 --> 02:40:55,130
is something that we take very seriously

1733
02:40:55,130 --> 02:40:59,330
because people buy their homes and they rely on the comp plan.

1734
02:40:59,950 --> 02:41:01,810
And we've made a lot of changes to that.

1735
02:41:02,010 --> 02:41:04,770
And we can certainly go back and perhaps justify that.

1736
02:41:04,870 --> 02:41:06,650
But going forward, I think we have to be careful

1737
02:41:06,650 --> 02:41:10,350
in a many in the comp plan because it does impact people

1738
02:41:10,350 --> 02:41:12,510
that are already living here.

1739
02:41:13,510 --> 02:41:20,230
In terms of the, if we expanded this and included the four acres

1740
02:41:20,230 --> 02:41:23,670
into a commercial planning and development,

1741
02:41:24,770 --> 02:41:26,190
live local would be one option.

1742
02:41:26,950 --> 02:41:28,610
But this question for the county attorney.

1743
02:41:29,290 --> 02:41:30,990
Under the document that they prepared,

1744
02:41:31,170 --> 02:41:33,610
whether things could, could a subsequent owner

1745
02:41:33,610 --> 02:41:36,790
do with those four acres, you know,

1746
02:41:37,030 --> 02:41:38,190
it's a relatively old building,

1747
02:41:38,190 --> 02:41:40,550
perhaps it gets torn down at some point in time.

1748
02:41:40,770 --> 02:41:42,970
I could put up another hotel there if you wanted to.

1749
02:41:43,230 --> 02:41:46,750
Now, if you had a four-acre hotel, how big could that be?

1750
02:41:47,210 --> 02:41:49,350
You've had this, Mr. Bozzy. You've got some specifics.

1751
02:41:49,370 --> 02:41:52,750
I realized that that, you know, this parking issue is in any parking issues.

1752
02:41:53,510 --> 02:41:54,310
Four acres.

1753
02:41:54,590 --> 02:41:57,090
Four acres is a fairly good size parcel.

1754
02:41:59,350 --> 02:42:05,210
And I will ask Mr. Bozzy that question, because we may have a wonderful owner right now

1755
02:42:05,210 --> 02:42:11,790
with a small hotel, and he's looking at having 76 units, but Mr. Bozy, just theoretically,

1756
02:42:13,490 --> 02:42:20,530
someone comes in with a four-acre parcel that's his own appropriately for a hotel, and

1757
02:42:20,530 --> 02:42:26,930
the whole four acres is upland, so we're not talking about the, you know, preserve areas.

1758
02:42:27,030 --> 02:42:30,170
That's really, but theoretically, how many hotel units could you build on that?

1759
02:42:32,600 --> 02:42:36,100
And I know it depends on the size of the units and parking, but just I'm trying to find

1760
02:42:36,100 --> 02:42:42,800
park here. Mike Bozzi played in zoning director, a rough estimate, I mean, because you have

1761
02:42:42,800 --> 02:42:48,840
water management, you have buffering it, parking, you have, there's a lot of different space

1762
02:42:48,840 --> 02:42:55,400
seders that are required for it. But 100 feet with the ability to have understory parking,

1763
02:42:56,080 --> 02:43:00,920
you could double or triple the number of hotel units that could possibly get there.

1764
02:43:01,240 --> 02:43:05,680
So, the point I'm making is we have an owner operator right now that has an existing

1765
02:43:05,680 --> 02:43:13,200
facility. Once they run it, maybe he would run it for another 10 or 15 or 20 years. On the

1766
02:43:13,200 --> 02:43:18,220
other hand, maybe he would sell it to a hotel operator that would like to put a 200-room

1767
02:43:18,220 --> 02:43:23,680
hotel there. And that's the potential that we're facing. So we've got to be very careful.

1768
02:43:23,940 --> 02:43:28,580
We have a petition here that wants to do a specific thing, but we're opening up the door,

1769
02:43:28,980 --> 02:43:34,400
opening the door for something that could be substantially more down the road. And that's

1770
02:43:34,400 --> 02:43:36,540
I want to hear from all the commissioners before we go to.

1771
02:43:36,560 --> 02:43:38,180
I support your motion.

1772
02:43:38,480 --> 02:43:40,720
I'm concerned about, and that would be nine B.

1773
02:43:41,140 --> 02:43:42,080
We'd have to make, right?

1774
02:43:42,320 --> 02:43:43,700
It's not a sense of motion on both.

1775
02:43:43,900 --> 02:43:45,260
We're just going to make a motion for nine B,

1776
02:43:45,460 --> 02:43:48,100
because that would be the one that really matters.

1777
02:43:49,720 --> 02:43:51,260
Yeah, if we see CPUD.

1778
02:43:52,220 --> 02:43:54,940
So anyway, that's why, that's the point I want to make that.

1779
02:43:56,080 --> 02:43:58,600
We've got to be very careful when we have a petition

1780
02:43:58,600 --> 02:44:00,760
in front of us for a discrete project.

1781
02:44:01,620 --> 02:44:03,900
It may be opening a door for something else.

1782
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:10,220
If you're going to deny this, if you're going to deny this, you need to state the reasons

1783
02:44:10,220 --> 02:44:11,160
why.

1784
02:44:13,540 --> 02:44:14,440
Mr. Buzz, I'm sorry.

1785
02:44:14,580 --> 02:44:16,820
Just additional commentary.

1786
02:44:18,340 --> 02:44:24,240
The denial of the growth management plan would extinguish the opportunity for the rezoning

1787
02:44:24,240 --> 02:44:30,720
to even be approved, because the growth management plan is needed for the rezoning request.

1788
02:44:30,720 --> 02:44:36,180
So nine A, I believe, is the growth management plan petitioned.

1789
02:44:36,180 --> 02:44:41,640
So I would focus to if it is going to be a recommendation of denial, it would be a recommendation

1790
02:44:41,640 --> 02:44:42,930
denial against nine A.

1791
02:44:43,580 --> 02:44:45,400
And then we don't even get tonight being done matter.

1792
02:44:45,420 --> 02:44:46,660
I thought it was the other way around.

1793
02:44:46,840 --> 02:44:46,960
I thought.

1794
02:44:47,700 --> 02:44:52,880
No, it's the zoning is dependent upon the growth management plan.

1795
02:44:53,140 --> 02:44:53,600
Authorized.

1796
02:44:53,600 --> 02:44:54,440
I'm asking you.

1797
02:44:54,960 --> 02:44:55,120
Yes.

1798
02:44:55,960 --> 02:44:56,120
All right.

1799
02:44:56,840 --> 02:44:57,180
Okay.

1800
02:44:57,180 --> 02:44:59,980
Thank you very much.

1801
02:45:01,280 --> 02:45:29,680
Let me just add one idea here and see if it has any traction with my peers here. Before we get a formal second of the motion and we vote, one thing that is different here is this is much different than some of the big things that we've had to weigh like a great wolf lodge or some of the other things. Even though you had some community, neighbors, that everything that they said has merit, I don't.

1802
02:45:29,680 --> 02:45:34,880
I don't, um, I don't feel like this huge animosity. We have some people that come here with pitch

1803
02:45:34,880 --> 02:45:40,020
forks and lit torches. They storm the building. You're the worst person in the world, blah, blah, blah.

1804
02:45:40,220 --> 02:45:43,960
I didn't hear that. You know, you know, you had a few people that are upset. And, and they have a

1805
02:45:43,960 --> 02:45:49,740
very right to, you know, give their, um, their stance. And I don't like kicking the can on a vote,

1806
02:45:49,820 --> 02:45:54,820
especially when we sort of have heard most everything. But there are some loose ends here. And I think

1807
02:45:54,820 --> 02:45:59,340
you do have a relationship with the community that if you had a town hall meeting, these people would

1808
02:45:59,340 --> 02:46:29,320
The people would come that, that, that, that hate it and don't want it and you'd hear from them even stronger than they'd have more than three minutes, you know, if you had a discussion, but you know, there's been more than a couple of times where we have said we've delayed the vote not because we couldn't come to a, to a quick decision here, but we wanted to give every opportunity to feel, I want, at least me to feel good about my vote. So one of the things that I would propose and it was early on where one of the commissioners here said, maybe we'd delay this, you work on the fire department things.

1809
02:46:29,340 --> 02:46:30,720
you know, you do all that.

1810
02:46:30,960 --> 02:46:32,560
What I don't like about that is you

1811
02:46:32,560 --> 02:46:34,480
expending funds and then coming back here

1812
02:46:34,480 --> 02:46:35,820
and thinking that gives you an edge.

1813
02:46:36,440 --> 02:46:38,420
But you certainly could meet with the fire department,

1814
02:46:39,120 --> 02:46:40,560
go through the list of things.

1815
02:46:40,560 --> 02:46:42,380
You know, slides don't cost any money.

1816
02:46:42,820 --> 02:46:44,200
You could cost out the things.

1817
02:46:44,400 --> 02:46:47,080
And then you could come, if I'm thinking hypothetically,

1818
02:46:47,640 --> 02:46:48,780
you came back here and said,

1819
02:46:48,960 --> 02:46:50,420
this is what the fire chief said.

1820
02:46:50,420 --> 02:46:54,280
I would need to do the total of all of that

1821
02:46:54,280 --> 02:46:55,400
is extra number of dollars.

1822
02:46:55,720 --> 02:46:57,100
I've got that money on the bank.

1823
02:46:57,100 --> 02:46:59,520
and I can pull the trigger on it instantaneously.

1824
02:46:59,820 --> 02:47:01,120
So that piece would be off the table.

1825
02:47:01,700 --> 02:47:02,680
I met with the citizens,

1826
02:47:03,060 --> 02:47:04,640
which came up with the traffic plan.

1827
02:47:05,800 --> 02:47:08,200
You know, use some of our county resources to come up.

1828
02:47:08,240 --> 02:47:09,860
I'm not saying we would still approve it,

1829
02:47:10,300 --> 02:47:11,760
but it would come back here, I think,

1830
02:47:11,800 --> 02:47:14,800
packaged a lot better, and also too,

1831
02:47:15,120 --> 02:47:17,760
maybe with some of the neighbors I've heard about the live local.

1832
02:47:19,120 --> 02:47:21,560
We don't say that to scare folks off,

1833
02:47:21,780 --> 02:47:23,220
but be careful what you wish for.

1834
02:47:23,320 --> 02:47:25,320
Everything that was just said by Mr. Bozy

1835
02:47:25,320 --> 02:47:27,700
is very factual with some of the things

1836
02:47:27,700 --> 02:47:29,080
that are coming down from Tallahassee,

1837
02:47:29,240 --> 02:47:30,480
that is Commissioner McDonough said,

1838
02:47:30,980 --> 02:47:31,960
we weren't happy with.

1839
02:47:32,180 --> 02:47:35,820
Some counties live local, according to the legislatures

1840
02:47:35,820 --> 02:47:38,240
up in Tallahassee, they think it's a great thing.

1841
02:47:38,800 --> 02:47:40,920
We don't, we want to maintain control here

1842
02:47:40,920 --> 02:47:45,340
and be able to control our destiny and not have somebody,

1843
02:47:45,780 --> 02:47:47,740
just automatically be able to do something

1844
02:47:47,740 --> 02:47:49,300
and not have this form here.

1845
02:47:49,640 --> 02:47:50,680
But I think there's merit,

1846
02:47:50,780 --> 02:47:53,280
we'll see if there's an appetite up here for it

1847
02:47:53,280 --> 02:47:54,840
with my colleagues to say,

1848
02:47:54,840 --> 02:47:56,440
Maybe we delay this vote.

1849
02:47:56,960 --> 02:47:59,460
Let's see how good I'm speaking hypothetically.

1850
02:47:59,880 --> 02:48:04,940
How great of an owner you are to host something in the community, to do a little bit more homework,

1851
02:48:05,080 --> 02:48:10,340
to hear from the fire department, to maybe work on the burned out house and not to say that you have to tear it down,

1852
02:48:10,420 --> 02:48:12,420
but have a plan to maybe address it.

1853
02:48:12,620 --> 02:48:16,380
You know, some of the citizens certainly made it sound like an ice-sorb of the picture I saw here,

1854
02:48:16,600 --> 02:48:24,720
just had a little fire in the back, so I could say there's worse things in my district that I wish I could order to be torn down.

1855
02:48:24,720 --> 02:48:25,980
but I can't.

1856
02:48:26,500 --> 02:48:27,940
We just have to make sure that they're safe.

1857
02:48:28,260 --> 02:48:30,380
But I think there might be merit in that.

1858
02:48:30,500 --> 02:48:34,040
And if my colleagues think, and this isn't,

1859
02:48:34,140 --> 02:48:35,900
I'd like to just hear their comments

1860
02:48:35,900 --> 02:48:38,320
where we would just say, you'll even hear

1861
02:48:38,320 --> 02:48:39,540
with a lot of homework assignments.

1862
02:48:39,760 --> 02:48:40,780
And so are the citizens.

1863
02:48:42,100 --> 02:48:43,400
Maybe there'd be merit and coming back.

1864
02:48:43,440 --> 02:48:45,460
And then that meeting would be way shorter.

1865
02:48:45,740 --> 02:48:47,220
We wouldn't start from scratch.

1866
02:48:47,300 --> 02:48:48,300
We know the hotel.

1867
02:48:48,380 --> 02:48:49,360
We've seen the things.

1868
02:48:49,740 --> 02:48:51,080
But you could fill in the blanks.

1869
02:48:51,260 --> 02:48:53,980
And then to be fair to a property owner

1870
02:48:53,980 --> 02:49:00,120
give them the full potential to be able to make their pitch and then if it dies it's like

1871
02:49:00,120 --> 02:49:06,080
hey we did everything possible you know you walk out of here and go you know what I feel like

1872
02:49:06,080 --> 02:49:10,060
I got a fair shake I think that might be something to consider it would be something that I would

1873
02:49:10,060 --> 02:49:16,740
support because I think you would come back and it still might get voted down but I think we would

1874
02:49:16,740 --> 02:49:22,460
have a lot more and because you can tell this is a unique you know community even with the

1875
02:49:22,460 --> 02:49:28,040
people that are upset. There's some cases that come to us before I see that would be the worst

1876
02:49:28,040 --> 02:49:35,740
idea in the world because it would be chaos, chaotic. But I think in this community you could

1877
02:49:36,500 --> 02:49:41,860
have a, you know, a mature and professional conversation and bring us back something that we

1878
02:49:41,860 --> 02:49:48,040
could, we could look at all the aspects of it and sort of pick up where we left off and then see

1879
02:49:48,040 --> 02:49:51,160
with a potential, what came out of that meeting?

1880
02:49:51,300 --> 02:49:52,040
Just an idea.

1881
02:49:52,760 --> 02:49:54,920
So I'm not making a motion floating at sea

1882
02:49:54,920 --> 02:49:58,240
if I got any appetite up here to give this a little bit

1883
02:49:58,240 --> 02:50:01,440
of a deeper dive before we make a final decision,

1884
02:50:01,760 --> 02:50:06,180
just because, you know, we think it would be too big

1885
02:50:06,180 --> 02:50:08,520
of a muscle movement with the growth management plan.

1886
02:50:08,680 --> 02:50:12,200
We change the GMP multiple times, but just an idea.

1887
02:50:13,340 --> 02:50:14,720
Sir, sir, please.

1888
02:50:17,440 --> 02:50:24,160
Sir, please, I see Commissioner Hall is a little up and I think we're going around and around again here.

1889
02:50:24,660 --> 02:50:30,460
I just, I do have two points I want to ask staff real quick of Mr. Bozzy and Mr. French.

1890
02:50:31,360 --> 02:50:39,560
I think certainly something was unclear and there was one of the comments that one of the female speakers made that was stuck out and I made a note.

1891
02:50:39,560 --> 02:50:59,700
And it was reference to once the properties combined, that because he has, because the old part is basically historical, it's under historical type, I believe, but tourist residential tourist zoning, and then he has the off street parking.

1892
02:50:59,700 --> 02:51:22,180
I know he's on the other side of Piper, he has parking on the median across the street from the hotel, which is like on the other side of the street, the main road runs through the parallels, the mockery, then he has the parking along the side street on the, I guess it'd be the north, the east side of the hotel itself.

1893
02:51:22,780 --> 02:51:25,780
She, something stuck out in my head when she made a comment.

1894
02:51:25,980 --> 02:51:29,960
Would that now change, and he couldn't use those parking swans?

1895
02:51:30,100 --> 02:51:31,440
Because nobody's really talked about it.

1896
02:51:31,540 --> 02:51:32,960
Would that change those counts?

1897
02:51:33,380 --> 02:51:36,000
No, there's a provision within the PUD that says,

1898
02:51:36,000 --> 02:51:40,660
only if they re-model tract A, do a full scale renovation,

1899
02:51:41,200 --> 02:51:43,440
then the parking, the ensuite parking would go away.

1900
02:51:44,340 --> 02:51:50,220
So, no, just a reason to commercial PUD would not

1901
02:51:50,220 --> 02:51:52,800
would not invalidate the utilization.

1902
02:51:52,880 --> 02:51:55,120
You do exist in the off-street parking, okay?

1903
02:51:55,800 --> 02:51:57,740
And it wouldn't be, and he couldn't use those

1904
02:51:57,740 --> 02:52:00,780
the count towards the spaces in the new part.

1905
02:52:01,240 --> 02:52:01,820
No, no, no.

1906
02:52:01,820 --> 02:52:03,660
Okay, so he can't use his part of total the new-

1907
02:52:03,660 --> 02:52:06,160
There's another provision that the Planning Commission had added

1908
02:52:06,160 --> 02:52:10,820
if there would be that said that the parking for B has to be provided

1909
02:52:10,820 --> 02:52:13,260
for on track B.

1910
02:52:14,400 --> 02:52:16,840
And the other question, Mr. French,

1911
02:52:16,840 --> 02:52:21,300
because there was mention of some code case violations.

1912
02:52:21,520 --> 02:52:23,140
Do you know if those ever resolved,

1913
02:52:23,300 --> 02:52:27,600
there's a stop standing fines or there's still any hearings pending on this?

1914
02:52:29,810 --> 02:52:29,970
So I...

1915
02:52:30,000 --> 02:52:37,660
I can highlight the, and again, Jamie French for the record, Terry. I'm your department head for

1916
02:52:37,660 --> 02:52:39,160
growth management community development.

1917
02:52:42,110 --> 02:52:47,150
So on the hotel property, this is more so about building

1918
02:52:47,150 --> 02:52:54,550
them into this fire. So there are active permanent applications that are incomplete. They were applied

1919
02:52:54,550 --> 02:52:57,350
for on September 15th.

1920
02:52:57,590 --> 02:53:00,850
So likely, and because there's no NFIP request,

1921
02:53:01,090 --> 02:53:03,910
I also serve as the county's floodplain administrator,

1922
02:53:04,770 --> 02:53:06,470
we recognize that there was a great deal

1923
02:53:06,470 --> 02:53:07,590
of flooding in this area.

1924
02:53:07,930 --> 02:53:11,190
I cannot say whether or not these units flooded,

1925
02:53:11,590 --> 02:53:14,490
but there was remodeling that occurred.

1926
02:53:14,790 --> 02:53:17,170
That does require this is a commercial structure,

1927
02:53:17,770 --> 02:53:19,590
and so it's subject to the Florida Building Code.

1928
02:53:19,670 --> 02:53:21,770
Now, if the fire component is important,

1929
02:53:21,770 --> 02:53:27,550
Now, fire marsal lents, he is a plan reviewer and an inspector.

1930
02:53:27,890 --> 02:53:29,610
He has a part in the building permit.

1931
02:53:30,310 --> 02:53:33,690
But there are no active permits issued on this site.

1932
02:53:34,190 --> 02:53:37,890
All of the units have been named and there is an ongoing code case.

1933
02:53:38,510 --> 02:53:43,650
That code case would follow that judicial process, the special magistrate should the owner

1934
02:53:43,650 --> 02:53:46,930
not comply with the Florida building code working with your building official.

1935
02:53:46,930 --> 02:53:51,530
So with regards to the House, there's a long history of this house, there was indeed a fire.

1936
02:53:52,190 --> 02:54:00,450
It appears that looks like in 2022, there was a permit that was applied for for demolition.

1937
02:54:01,050 --> 02:54:05,410
That permit was subsequently canceled by the contractor honk construction.

1938
02:54:05,910 --> 02:54:12,510
And a refund was issued for permits or for reviews or inspections that were not done.

1939
02:54:12,510 --> 02:54:18,550
That would demonstrate that purposely that contractor backed out of that contract and according

1940
02:54:18,550 --> 02:54:22,290
to Google Earth when you go through and you search the aerial street view imagery over

1941
02:54:22,290 --> 02:54:22,990
the years.

1942
02:54:23,350 --> 02:54:28,830
You can see windovers are placed, new paint, you can see softlets were replaced on the outside.

1943
02:54:29,450 --> 02:54:31,010
So clearly there was work done.

1944
02:54:31,390 --> 02:54:37,090
Now if there was an owner occupant, there may be, but this is not, there's no provisions.

1945
02:54:37,810 --> 02:54:39,290
He would have to have a license contractor.

1946
02:54:39,290 --> 02:54:45,790
So we have a property maintenance complaint on this property as well as a code case on this property as well.

1947
02:54:46,630 --> 02:55:00,690
So there's history here and unfortunately it is going to require permits to include likely some demolition as well as the upgrades to the units to the hotel units that the property owners responsible for

1948
02:55:00,690 --> 02:55:03,630
walking those all the way through the process that's here to the state law.

1949
02:55:04,670 --> 02:55:05,070
Thank you Mr.

1950
02:55:05,710 --> 02:55:08,830
I'm assuming Commissioner Hall is lit up in theax and assuming he's probably going

1951
02:55:08,830 --> 02:55:12,810
to make his motion again and I believe Mr. Saunders was going to second it.

1952
02:55:13,990 --> 02:55:16,710
Commissioner McDaniel is there anything you want to ask?

1953
02:55:17,830 --> 02:55:17,910
Okay.

1954
02:55:19,590 --> 02:55:20,210
I'm not.

1955
02:55:20,210 --> 02:55:26,870
Thank you for asking, but I don't have a flavor for continuing the item I'm not inclined

1956
02:55:26,870 --> 02:55:28,170
to support there.

1957
02:55:29,410 --> 02:55:29,570
All right.

1958
02:55:29,570 --> 02:55:30,570
Commissioner Hall.

1959
02:55:31,410 --> 02:55:31,690
Thank you.

1960
02:55:31,690 --> 02:55:32,710
Did you want to say something?

1961
02:55:33,030 --> 02:55:33,950
I just want to ask a question.

1962
02:55:34,030 --> 02:55:38,970
I know this is going to be a motion and it's going to be to deny the cop plan amendment

1963
02:55:38,970 --> 02:55:41,570
which will eliminate the zoning issue.

1964
02:55:41,810 --> 02:55:44,370
County Attorney has indicated that we have to state reasons.

1965
02:55:44,550 --> 02:55:50,890
I think on this is a, would be a legislative event in terms of the cop plan.

1966
02:55:51,770 --> 02:55:55,810
So in terms of stating our reasons, do we state the reasons before we vote?

1967
02:55:56,050 --> 02:55:58,130
What's the process before?

1968
02:55:58,130 --> 02:56:07,570
The motion maker state reasons, yes, I had the motion maker state reasons for it if anybody wants to chime in with additional reasons you're welcome to.

1969
02:56:09,700 --> 02:56:12,280
Mr. Hall. Thank you.

1970
02:56:12,680 --> 02:56:20,160
So whether regarding the building codes, regarding the fire issues, all of that has to be resolved anyway.

1971
02:56:20,820 --> 02:56:25,440
And I trust that it will be, and that's why we have our laws and ordinances in place.

1972
02:56:25,440 --> 02:56:33,300
I'm going to make the motion to deny the growth management change for the commercial PUD from residential.

1973
02:56:35,740 --> 02:56:42,440
Based on, I don't want to see the commercial property increased with the risk of live local.

1974
02:56:43,500 --> 02:56:44,460
And that's a real risk.

1975
02:56:44,460 --> 02:56:57,460
The acre and a half imprint commercial commercially is limiting versus a four acre commercial imprint and the Mercado West is a great example of that.

1976
02:56:58,480 --> 02:57:06,600
They could have lived local debt at a hundred feet and put 70 units in it as it was they only put 29 units in it over parking.

1977
02:57:07,360 --> 02:57:10,500
So I'm going to make the motion to deny the growth management.

1978
02:57:10,500 --> 02:57:19,420
based on, I don't want to see that property with a potential of going live local in the Palm River neighborhood.

1979
02:57:19,500 --> 02:57:22,780
Mr. Chairman, I'm going to second the motion.

1980
02:57:24,580 --> 02:57:32,500
In addition to what was stated, I have a concern of encroachment of commercial into a residential neighborhood.

1981
02:57:32,500 --> 02:57:41,700
I think it presents an unfair impact on the neighbors, and so I am very reluctant to change a

1982
02:57:41,700 --> 02:57:47,200
complaint that our citizens have relied on over the years, so I'm going to second the motion.

1983
02:57:49,420 --> 02:57:55,440
The motion, we have the reasons why, and we have the second, all in favor signify by saying,

1984
02:57:55,440 --> 02:57:58,840
I suppose the same sound, same sound,

1985
02:58:01,920 --> 02:58:04,120
motion to deny his pass.

1986
02:58:05,760 --> 02:58:06,180
That's next.

1987
02:58:06,380 --> 02:58:08,940
So we don't have to hear 9B because that's

1988
02:58:08,940 --> 02:58:09,800
irrelevant now.

1989
02:58:11,400 --> 02:58:15,060
All right, do you, county manager, do you

1990
02:58:15,060 --> 02:58:21,920
think we should take a few 11 items before we get into 9C and 9D?

1991
02:58:22,440 --> 02:58:23,140
Yes, sir.

1992
02:58:23,500 --> 02:58:25,520
If you're planning on taking the lunch break, we

1993
02:58:25,520 --> 02:58:28,000
I think that's not about a couple of the 11s.

1994
02:58:28,140 --> 02:58:30,720
We really, at least the Everglades Air Park item

1995
02:58:30,720 --> 02:58:33,680
and then break for lunch and come back to do 9C and D.

1996
02:58:33,720 --> 02:58:37,040
I believe that's our best avenue for the rest of the day.

1997
02:58:37,480 --> 02:58:39,960
Okay. Well, that will bring us then to item 11A.

1998
02:58:40,020 --> 02:58:43,980
This item was continued from the May 26, 2026 BCC meeting.

1999
02:58:44,520 --> 02:58:46,860
This is a report to the board regarding the status

2000
02:58:46,860 --> 02:58:49,260
of the proposed acquisition of six parcels known

2001
02:58:49,260 --> 02:58:51,940
as the Everglades City Outpost and recommendation

2002
02:58:51,940 --> 02:58:53,980
to deny the agreement for sale and purchase

2003
02:58:53,980 --> 02:58:57,420
and cease negotiations with E.C. Land Holdings L.L.C.

2004
02:58:57,840 --> 02:59:02,500
Mr. Indy Scott, your Department Head for Transportation Management Services, is here to present.

2005
02:59:11,470 --> 02:59:13,110
I'm going to let Tom drive.

2006
02:59:17,510 --> 02:59:18,970
Tom, do you have any speakers on this side?

2007
02:59:20,050 --> 02:59:20,670
Yes, sir.

2008
02:59:21,450 --> 02:59:22,070
Thank you.

2009
02:59:25,400 --> 02:59:25,980
We have speakers.

2010
02:59:30,760 --> 02:59:31,320
Thank you, Tom.

2011
02:59:31,500 --> 02:59:35,180
For the record, Trinity Scott, your Department Head for Transportation Management Services.

2012
02:59:35,180 --> 02:59:42,320
We were in front of you a few months back with regards to a purchasing

2013
02:59:42,320 --> 02:59:48,320
sale agreement for the Everglades City Outpost, which is approximately 52 acres of property

2014
02:59:48,320 --> 02:59:51,600
immediately adjacent to the Everglades Air Park.

2015
02:59:55,880 --> 02:59:59,800
This six parcels, within the Everglades City boundaries.

2016
03:00:00,210 --> 03:00:09,330
The seller is EC and landholdings LLC. It is waterfront property with proximity, as stated to the Everglades City

2017
03:00:09,330 --> 03:00:12,450
Air Park, as well as the Everglades Visitors Center.

2018
03:00:15,940 --> 03:00:20,380
The board, back in July of 2025, had given staff

2019
03:00:20,380 --> 03:00:26,240
direction to begin negotiations for the acquisition of the approximate 52.26 acre property,

2020
03:00:26,240 --> 03:00:39,060
which we had done so we had moved forward with some appraisals, come up with an average

2021
03:00:39,060 --> 03:00:41,980
appraisal price of $6.615 million.

2022
03:00:44,960 --> 03:00:48,480
Because the property was under consideration for use

2023
03:00:48,480 --> 03:00:54,080
of conservation call your dollars, we did proceed forward with talking with the City of

2024
03:00:54,080 --> 03:01:01,640
late city because that is part of the ordinance for the use of conservation call your funds.

2025
03:01:01,900 --> 03:01:07,180
So Commissioner McDaniel in a few staff members went to a city council meeting and June

2026
03:01:07,180 --> 03:01:12,860
2nd, 2026 to discuss the potential acquisition and receive some input.

2027
03:01:14,160 --> 03:01:22,080
On June 9th, we also attended another meeting and they did provide some conditional support.

2028
03:01:22,080 --> 03:01:28,960
And they had some requirements for that conditional support.

2029
03:01:29,300 --> 03:01:35,440
One was that they required a municipal revenue payment, essentially requesting that the

2030
03:01:35,440 --> 03:01:44,420
county provide the funding back of what they would have received for their municipal taxes

2031
03:01:44,940 --> 03:01:47,200
based on the value of the property.

2032
03:01:47,200 --> 03:01:57,760
They also desired that at least 10 acres be utilized for airport expansion and that no county operated vote ramp on the property.

2033
03:01:58,700 --> 03:02:10,840
So we, staff went back and re-evaluated the property and we are before you today with a recommendation to cease negotiations.

2034
03:02:15,140 --> 03:02:23,900
As we felt that without having the boat ramp on the property, we did not feel that we had sufficient uses.

2035
03:02:24,440 --> 03:02:28,580
And the other item that I wanted to correct on the record was in the executive summary,

2036
03:02:29,520 --> 03:02:36,860
we had noted a strategic plan initiative objective that was consistent with purchasing the policy.

2037
03:02:37,040 --> 03:02:40,680
And this is my error when you're working off of an old executive summary.

2038
03:02:40,680 --> 03:02:46,960
The recommendation should have been it's consistent with the county's responsible governance strategic focus area

2039
03:02:46,960 --> 03:02:56,280
Specifically the objective to safeguard taxpayer money by promoting fiscal stewardship and sound budget oversight. So I apologize for that. That wasn't over site on my part

2040
03:02:57,180 --> 03:02:58,800
Somebody doctor pay

2041
03:02:58,800 --> 03:03:05,760
So our recommendation today is accept the status report

2042
03:03:05,760 --> 03:03:13,400
or deny the agreement for sale and purchase, and direct the county manager does need to cease further negotiations with the seller.

2043
03:03:15,060 --> 03:03:15,580
Mr. McDaniel.

2044
03:03:16,320 --> 03:03:18,840
If we have, I mean public speakers.

2045
03:03:19,380 --> 03:03:20,100
Two sir.

2046
03:03:20,480 --> 03:03:21,020
I'd like to hear from you.

2047
03:03:21,020 --> 03:03:21,320
Okay.

2048
03:03:21,860 --> 03:03:23,140
I'd like to say something.

2049
03:03:23,500 --> 03:03:24,140
Good afternoon, please.

2050
03:03:25,200 --> 03:03:25,500
I don't know.

2051
03:03:25,540 --> 03:03:26,620
A couple more people will let up.

2052
03:03:26,860 --> 03:03:27,320
Mr. Saunders.

2053
03:03:27,640 --> 03:03:28,080
I don't know.

2054
03:03:28,540 --> 03:03:28,740
Okay.

2055
03:03:29,760 --> 03:03:30,820
Go ahead, Tom.

2056
03:03:31,240 --> 03:03:31,280
Thank you.

2057
03:03:31,360 --> 03:03:34,120
Our first registered speaker on the side of his Brad Cornell.

2058
03:03:34,120 --> 03:03:34,960
You

2059
03:03:39,790 --> 03:03:45,570
can only sign up for one thing a day and you take your poison.

2060
03:03:46,350 --> 03:03:51,450
You need to reduce the length of your agendas, but thank you.

2061
03:03:51,970 --> 03:03:52,790
I'm Brad Cornell.

2062
03:03:52,790 --> 03:03:55,130
I'm here on behalf of Audub on Western Everglades.

2063
03:03:55,690 --> 03:03:57,650
Thank you for the opportunity to address you.

2064
03:03:57,930 --> 03:04:04,650
I don't want to talk about the entire project, but I do want to address the mangrove.

2065
03:04:04,650 --> 03:04:11,370
So this site has 30 some acres of mangroves which were slated for conservation

2066
03:04:11,370 --> 03:04:12,650
carrier funding.

2067
03:04:13,710 --> 03:04:18,090
Audemn must never laid strongly supports the protection and acquisition

2068
03:04:18,090 --> 03:04:21,430
and respect for mangrove habitats.

2069
03:04:21,830 --> 03:04:28,430
They're clearly important for the city of Everglades City, for coastal communities,

2070
03:04:28,430 --> 03:04:37,730
here and anywhere in Florida, we recognize the value they have in mitigating storm surge

2071
03:04:37,730 --> 03:04:47,510
damage from hurricanes and tropical storms and the habitat value. So it's clearly a

2072
03:04:47,510 --> 03:05:10,350
valuable habitat asset. However, the $3 million proposed part of this acquisition, we do not support, that does not match with a reasonable appraisal for the 30 sum acres of mangrove.

2073
03:05:10,350 --> 03:05:17,470
So because of that, we would concur with the recommendation for not moving forward with this.

2074
03:05:17,750 --> 03:05:18,410
Thank you.

2075
03:05:18,710 --> 03:05:19,350
Thank you.

2076
03:05:20,530 --> 03:05:23,190
For next registered speaker, is Michelle Lenore?

2077
03:05:30,970 --> 03:05:32,230
Good morning, commissioners.

2078
03:05:32,610 --> 03:05:34,630
Michelle Lenhardt, chair of Conservation Collier.

2079
03:05:34,790 --> 03:05:38,830
And I am also here only to speak about the portion related to Conservation Collier.

2080
03:05:39,530 --> 03:05:43,350
We also represent the land acquisition committees' feelings.

2081
03:05:43,350 --> 03:05:51,090
and we did deny or rate this property as a C and not because of the environmental importance

2082
03:05:51,090 --> 03:05:55,570
of mangroves, which I don't want to repeat auto bonds position, but we agree with that

2083
03:05:55,570 --> 03:06:01,210
as well. More that we felt and the storm surge protection that they afford this community,

2084
03:06:01,890 --> 03:06:07,650
but the public access and recreational opportunities that are not available on this site don't

2085
03:06:07,650 --> 03:06:12,490
really fit with the goals of the Conservation Hollywood program. And I would say the committee

2086
03:06:12,490 --> 03:06:17,630
was concerned about using conservation collier funds for partnership on a property that doesn't meet

2087
03:06:17,630 --> 03:06:22,910
the state and goals of our program. So thank you. Thank you. You can sign up again today.

2088
03:06:23,370 --> 03:06:29,050
I see it. Oh, you're going to love her. Yeah, I'll let her. If you go too long, I can't stay. Oh,

2089
03:06:29,290 --> 03:06:33,390
well, noted. For our lunch today. Yeah.

2090
03:06:37,660 --> 03:06:40,660
I'm ready. Don't need to go now. Go ahead.

2091
03:06:40,660 --> 03:06:46,120
Commissioner McDaniel. Okay, Mr. Chair. Thank you. I'm going to throw a little curve at you.

2092
03:06:47,680 --> 03:06:56,800
Are we not out for world close to an ITN for both FBOs and Everglades and Marco Island or amocally?

2093
03:06:57,640 --> 03:07:04,640
Yes, there we are. Okay. So my suggestion is and there is other work going on that's outside of our staff.

2094
03:07:04,640 --> 03:07:26,500
My suggestion is, in Commissioner Saunders, you brought this up a month or so ago with regard to the upcoming November 3rd vote on Amendment 3, and it's passage or not, whether we're even going to have available tax money, and that's certainly a decision that we will have to make on November 4th, whether or not that amendment passes.

2095
03:07:26,500 --> 03:07:29,960
But my suggestion is we continue this for no-

2096
03:07:30,000 --> 03:07:40,720
Longer than 120 days, the second meeting in January, for sure sooner, if certainly if amendment 3 passes, we can discontinue communication.

2097
03:07:42,120 --> 03:07:55,820
Or discontinue our efforts. There are other efforts going on outside of staff's efforts with regard to exploration, utilization of the property, and what it could or could not be done.

2098
03:07:55,820 --> 03:07:59,620
And so my suggestion is rather than end this today

2099
03:07:59,620 --> 03:08:03,600
that's push it to no later than the second meeting in January

2100
03:08:04,080 --> 03:08:07,220
until this additional data can be brought in.

2101
03:08:07,240 --> 03:08:08,740
So I'll make that as a motion.

2102
03:08:10,360 --> 03:08:12,160
Mr. Sauner, if you want to add some.

2103
03:08:12,540 --> 03:08:16,640
Yeah, I don't think we should continue this.

2104
03:08:16,740 --> 03:08:21,600
I think we should simply say no and move on to other business.

2105
03:08:21,880 --> 03:08:24,360
And I've got a bunch of reasons here.

2106
03:08:24,360 --> 03:08:30,960
And so I'm going to go through them because I think that continuing this simply basically continues

2107
03:08:30,960 --> 03:08:34,340
the pain here a little bit in terms of dealing with the issue.

2108
03:08:36,180 --> 03:08:41,540
Even if amendment three fails, I would still be opposed to this, or the same reasons.

2109
03:08:42,700 --> 03:08:46,800
First and foremost, it's way too expensive for what the county would be able to do with

2110
03:08:46,800 --> 03:08:47,340
this property.

2111
03:08:48,980 --> 03:08:55,960
And one of the selling points of buying this property was that you could have a boat ramp there.

2112
03:08:56,500 --> 03:09:07,660
I was handed a couple letters from some boaters, commercial fishermen from Everglades City.

2113
03:09:07,800 --> 03:09:14,140
I've handed those out to all of the commissioners, but I want to highlight a couple points that are being made in these letters.

2114
03:09:14,140 --> 03:09:18,380
So I think it really points out why the board should just simply say no to this.

2115
03:09:19,100 --> 03:09:25,200
One of the letters is from Captain Steve Huff and just a couple sentences from it as a

2116
03:09:25,200 --> 03:09:30,340
fishing guide of 58 years is fair to say that my boat ramp experience is fairly well-founded.

2117
03:09:31,600 --> 03:09:33,540
My boat is on and off the trailer every day.

2118
03:09:33,660 --> 03:09:40,500
He points this out to say that he supports boat ramps and is certainly familiar with their

2119
03:09:40,500 --> 03:09:41,060
operations.

2120
03:09:41,060 --> 03:09:46,060
But he says, in my opinion, there is no great venue for ramp on that property.

2121
03:09:46,840 --> 03:09:51,280
At present, the parcel is surrounded by water too shallow to launch anything other than

2122
03:09:51,280 --> 03:09:53,040
a canoe at low tide.

2123
03:09:53,480 --> 03:09:59,120
The only exception is along the Bayer River, which has a four to five foot not current flowing

2124
03:09:59,120 --> 03:10:05,320
sweeping down the shore, making a launch virtually impossible, except perhaps for a total

2125
03:10:05,320 --> 03:10:08,820
of about three hours and a 24 hour period during the slack tide.

2126
03:10:08,820 --> 03:10:17,240
The other possibilities to dig a major basin with a ramp inside the expense of which would be greater than the value of the property.

2127
03:10:18,080 --> 03:10:20,260
Have another letter from a commercial fisherman.

2128
03:10:21,180 --> 03:10:23,540
This is from Mike Merritt.

2129
03:10:24,440 --> 03:10:28,340
Any outlines, several reasons why this would be a bad idea.

2130
03:10:29,420 --> 03:10:35,960
The area of the proposed boat ramp is adjacent to the channel used by larger boats to enter and lead the bear and river.

2131
03:10:35,960 --> 03:10:40,260
The distance from the existing shoreline to the channel is less than 100 feet.

2132
03:10:40,560 --> 03:10:44,580
This alone would make for a dangerous confluence of boats.

2133
03:10:45,240 --> 03:10:50,140
We have 50 foot commercial vessels that use this channel during the stonecraft season, commercial

2134
03:10:50,140 --> 03:10:54,620
groupar season, crawfish season, kingfish and macros, et cetera.

2135
03:10:55,100 --> 03:11:01,220
If you mix this with an inexperienced boater, it is just a matter of time, not when someone

2136
03:11:01,220 --> 03:11:02,380
will be injured or worse.

2137
03:11:02,380 --> 03:11:08,380
Then he goes on to say that this is a small town and we enjoy a certain level of tranquility.

2138
03:11:10,300 --> 03:11:14,620
Number three, our area already has six boat ramps that boaters can access.

2139
03:11:15,120 --> 03:11:22,000
They are all privately owned and are sufficiently manned to prevent negative actions by boaters coming in and from outside of town.

2140
03:11:22,700 --> 03:11:28,660
And fourth, perhaps the most important reason of all, is that we live on the outskirts of Everglades National Park.

2141
03:11:28,660 --> 03:11:34,120
every boat that leaves out of here ends up traversing the park, one must remember that there

2142
03:11:34,120 --> 03:11:41,300
is only one Everglades Park. So the idea that there could be a boat ramp there, I think, is,

2143
03:11:42,000 --> 03:11:48,720
I'm watching that there is at least questionable. If you take that out of the mix then I don't think

2144
03:11:48,720 --> 03:11:52,920
you really have a piece of property that the county should be purchasing.

2145
03:11:55,160 --> 03:11:57,180
Again, and also we have rolled

2146
03:11:57,180 --> 03:12:02,140
mill is right back three times at the last four years and that's something I think the board

2147
03:12:02,140 --> 03:12:08,480
is very proud of and we were saving the taxpayers a lot of money. Now I've been opposed to a couple

2148
03:12:08,480 --> 03:12:15,580
of those efforts for reasons that I've discussed in the past but I think when you start looking

2149
03:12:15,580 --> 03:12:24,040
at the potential impact on our overall budget whether or not amendment three passes this is a problem

2150
03:12:24,040 --> 03:12:29,740
And so I would urge the board to simply say, no, we're not going to proceed any further with the acquisition.

2151
03:12:34,400 --> 03:12:34,740
Okay.

2152
03:12:35,060 --> 03:12:35,740
Commissioner Lookaster.

2153
03:12:36,440 --> 03:12:37,220
Yeah, I would second that.

2154
03:12:37,900 --> 03:12:42,800
I don't think kick in the can of 120 days on this one's going to change my view.

2155
03:12:42,880 --> 03:12:45,680
Unless you think there's something magical that's going to come to us.

2156
03:12:45,760 --> 03:12:48,160
I mean, to go back on the last vote.

2157
03:12:48,300 --> 03:12:57,780
But I think the fairway in had more potential to bring us back something a little bit with a little bit more meat on the bone.

2158
03:12:57,780 --> 03:13:00,520
But this one, from the start, I got a lot of those same emails

2159
03:13:00,520 --> 03:13:01,360
and whatnot, it's on us.

2160
03:13:01,560 --> 03:13:02,240
I'm missing something.

2161
03:13:03,660 --> 03:13:04,940
I would, I would second the motions.

2162
03:13:05,240 --> 03:13:06,580
Didn't I have this one right now?

2163
03:13:09,500 --> 03:13:10,260
Commissioner Dario.

2164
03:13:11,000 --> 03:13:14,260
Put the map back up with the acquisition, if you would, please.

2165
03:13:15,640 --> 03:13:16,840
But that one right there.

2166
03:13:20,450 --> 03:13:22,150
Going back to my original discussion.

2167
03:13:22,690 --> 03:13:26,930
There is potential of traveling along to the south

2168
03:13:26,930 --> 03:13:29,570
and not access in that area where the residents,

2169
03:13:29,570 --> 03:13:34,430
said is people in Everglades have expressed a concern right on the river there by

2170
03:13:34,430 --> 03:13:38,190
half of the boat ramp going out to the north, but there is a potential of

2171
03:13:38,190 --> 03:13:43,010
coming along the side of our airport and put in a boat ramp off the south end of

2172
03:13:43,010 --> 03:13:48,410
that runway and there will be some mitigation with some of the mangroves that are

2173
03:13:48,410 --> 03:13:59,550
there in order to effectuate that. Actually that was suggested to me by one of

2174
03:13:59,550 --> 03:14:16,910
is a city councilman, so that was my main reason for continuing this, get through to November 3rd, get our ITN out to find out if we have anybody interested in expanding that FBO that we have there in Everglades City.

2175
03:14:16,910 --> 03:14:23,850
The long and short of it is the one thing none of us can argue is there are not enough public

2176
03:14:23,850 --> 03:14:30,150
boat ramps within our community, and having that boat ramp there would be an enormous asset

2177
03:14:30,150 --> 03:14:36,330
to all of the residents of Calier County and to the residents of Everglades, tourism, restaurant

2178
03:14:36,330 --> 03:14:40,510
business, and access into the Everglades National Park.

2179
03:14:40,510 --> 03:14:49,130
I don't disagree that there are concerns with pushing the, originally we have proposed

2180
03:14:49,130 --> 03:14:56,010
on the site plan to push the, have the boat ramp go out to the north, but I would like,

2181
03:14:56,010 --> 03:14:59,410
I would like a little bit of time to explore whether or not it can be done.

2182
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:05,520
Halfways cost the fact to believe coming to the south. That's my rationale for pushing.

2183
03:15:07,140 --> 03:15:14,680
I do have a question since you have the map up. Where was if we worked to do to boat ramp originally?

2184
03:15:15,060 --> 03:15:18,400
Where was it proposed? I know it was towards the northern end.

2185
03:15:18,640 --> 03:15:21,120
Right about there. Right in there.

2186
03:15:21,280 --> 03:15:26,200
So it's actually, we would access the water from the actual property purchased.

2187
03:15:26,440 --> 03:15:28,680
Right? There's no boundary between that.

2188
03:15:28,680 --> 03:15:32,420
correct. But we're Commissioner McDaniels

2189
03:15:32,420 --> 03:15:35,140
preferring down here. What didn't have to cross the airport

2190
03:15:35,140 --> 03:15:39,580
property? To meet the water. It would that then be a

2191
03:15:39,580 --> 03:15:43,520
FAA. I mean, would that be there be any more who should have

2192
03:15:43,520 --> 03:15:47,660
to jump through to do it on that end? Potentially yes. I mean,

2193
03:15:47,660 --> 03:15:51,400
it does look in this particular, it does look like in the

2194
03:15:51,400 --> 03:15:56,360
area that it would have to cross through the airport

2195
03:15:56,360 --> 03:16:01,380
own property. So yes, we would have to engage with the FAA.

2196
03:16:03,120 --> 03:16:03,860
I don't know.

2197
03:16:03,940 --> 03:16:07,720
Is there any history where you can have a boat ramp and an airport or the same property

2198
03:16:07,720 --> 03:16:12,320
at the end of the runway? I don't know if it ever existed or that's even a good question.

2199
03:16:12,980 --> 03:16:18,520
We would have to think that it would probably be frowned upon and just spit-balling.

2200
03:16:18,760 --> 03:16:23,140
We would have to work through with the Federal Aviation Administration on that.

2201
03:16:23,140 --> 03:16:27,260
Okay. All right. So Mr.

2202
03:16:27,720 --> 03:16:29,400
You made a original motion.

2203
03:16:29,460 --> 03:16:30,400
I don't think that's active.

2204
03:16:30,680 --> 03:16:31,180
Second, correct.

2205
03:16:31,380 --> 03:16:33,620
No, but you seconded my original motion.

2206
03:16:34,260 --> 03:16:36,160
And I had a second motion from Commissioner.

2207
03:16:36,780 --> 03:16:39,780
So our Saunders, can you go ahead and are you ahead?

2208
03:16:40,180 --> 03:16:43,820
Yeah, I would make a motion to accept the staff report

2209
03:16:43,820 --> 03:16:49,040
that staff cease for the conversations concerning this property.

2210
03:16:49,620 --> 03:16:51,360
Okay, I have a motion to exit.

2211
03:16:51,360 --> 03:16:55,200
So, the motion in the second, all of favor signify by saying aye.

2212
03:16:55,300 --> 03:16:55,700
Aye.

2213
03:16:56,140 --> 03:16:57,760
The pose, same sound, same sign.

2214
03:16:58,700 --> 03:16:58,900
Okay.

2215
03:16:59,180 --> 03:16:59,620
Four, one.

2216
03:17:00,300 --> 03:17:01,860
Thank you.

2217
03:17:03,880 --> 03:17:05,920
We want to try to go to lunch around 12, 30.

2218
03:17:06,320 --> 03:17:07,740
If you think we can squeeze another.

2219
03:17:08,600 --> 03:17:09,380
Terry, how you doing?

2220
03:17:09,580 --> 03:17:10,120
You okay?

2221
03:17:10,900 --> 03:17:11,740
It's on, okay.

2222
03:17:13,280 --> 03:17:13,800
All right.

2223
03:17:14,720 --> 03:17:17,140
That brings us to item 11B.

2224
03:17:17,640 --> 03:17:18,320
This is a recommendation.

2225
03:17:18,320 --> 03:17:24,500
Actually, we could, Commissioner Saunders, we could jump to that crack 10 because then we can take the conservation collar items together.

2226
03:17:25,460 --> 03:17:29,420
So that'll bring us to our add-on item that is item 10A.

2227
03:17:29,680 --> 03:17:44,560
This is a recommendation to direct the county attorney to advertise and ordinance establishing limitations on the use of county funds and county owned or county controlled property for automated license plate recognition cameras providing for permitted and prohibited camera functions.

2228
03:17:44,560 --> 03:17:50,540
requiring compliance certification, providing for municipal participation by opt-in, providing for

2229
03:17:50,540 --> 03:17:54,940
administration and enforcement and providing for applicability and an effective date.

2230
03:17:55,000 --> 03:17:57,100
Again, this item is brought to the agenda by Commissioner Saunders.

2231
03:17:57,100 --> 03:18:03,900
All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason I put this on the agenda is we had the share

2232
03:18:03,900 --> 03:18:10,900
of come and make a presentation concerning the use of these flock-type cameras and the share

2233
03:18:10,900 --> 03:18:19,000
dedicated very clearly that he uses these cameras as automated license plate readers only takes

2234
03:18:19,000 --> 03:18:24,620
a still picture of the license plate and that database is kept for a certain limited period

2235
03:18:24,620 --> 03:18:31,600
of time and that information can be used if there's a stolen car or perhaps or if someone

2236
03:18:32,310 --> 03:18:40,560
is driving away and they're impaired and it's reported it'll help locate that type of situation

2237
03:18:40,560 --> 03:18:44,880
will help locate missing persons and that sort of thing, but a very limited use.

2238
03:18:46,120 --> 03:18:54,200
Even with that presentation, I've received numerous letters and emails concerning what happens

2239
03:18:54,200 --> 03:18:56,540
if Sheriff Ram Bosch is no longer in the sheriff.

2240
03:18:56,640 --> 03:18:59,800
As a matter of fact, some of the speakers at that meeting express that very clearly.

2241
03:19:00,360 --> 03:19:06,580
We have a great sheriff, he does a great job, uses these cameras for a very limited purpose,

2242
03:19:06,580 --> 03:19:13,260
But we will eventually have a new sheriff and who knows what a new sheriff might want to do and so I thought well

2243
03:19:13,260 --> 03:19:18,780
Let's codify what the sheriff does and so that in the future if a new sheriff comes in

2244
03:19:19,380 --> 03:19:28,120
That's sure if we'll have to come to the county commission and have an ordinance repealed or modified before funds could be used for something other than

2245
03:19:28,620 --> 03:19:32,480
Automated license plate reading as is currently done by the sheriff

2246
03:19:32,480 --> 03:19:39,900
So I met with the Sheriff yesterday and his legal staff and his team members there and went

2247
03:19:39,900 --> 03:19:42,000
through what I was looking to try to accomplish.

2248
03:19:43,000 --> 03:19:47,540
I wanted to make sure that if we did something like this that the Sheriff would be on board

2249
03:19:47,540 --> 03:19:48,540
with that.

2250
03:19:48,980 --> 03:19:55,560
And the Sheriff was 100% in agreement with this type of a limitation, it meets with his policy

2251
03:19:56,260 --> 03:20:02,220
and certainly understands the concern of citizens in terms of these cameras being used

2252
03:20:02,220 --> 03:20:11,780
of the purposes. With the assistance of one of our dedicated staff folks, I went online

2253
03:20:12,500 --> 03:20:17,340
and had artificial intelligence draft and ordinance. So the ordinance you haven't

2254
03:20:17,340 --> 03:20:22,120
front of you was 100% AI generated, which I could take credit for, but I will tell you

2255
03:20:22,120 --> 03:20:32,200
AI did a great job. But it was just something to get started. So I submitted that to the

2256
03:20:32,200 --> 03:20:34,120
This is kind of what I'm thinking.

2257
03:20:34,640 --> 03:20:36,940
Let's have the county attorney draft the ordinance.

2258
03:20:37,860 --> 03:20:40,560
Bring it back and do it in two readings.

2259
03:20:41,180 --> 03:20:44,480
So that the commission has full opportunity to make sure that it's right.

2260
03:20:44,560 --> 03:20:47,140
Sheriff has full opportunity to make that it's right.

2261
03:20:47,700 --> 03:20:51,380
Let's put it into the concern that our citizens have about how these cameras

2262
03:20:51,380 --> 03:20:53,120
might be used for other purposes.

2263
03:20:53,960 --> 03:20:58,620
This ordinance will only apply to the expenditure of any county funds from any source

2264
03:20:58,620 --> 03:21:03,900
on county property or property control by the county through easement and other other purposes.

2265
03:21:04,640 --> 03:21:06,060
It doesn't apply to private property.

2266
03:21:06,080 --> 03:21:07,380
I don't think we can do that.

2267
03:21:08,040 --> 03:21:13,860
But it would eliminate the concern that citizens have about these cameras being used for surveillance, for example.

2268
03:21:14,140 --> 03:21:16,740
So that's the reason that I brought this for.

2269
03:21:17,700 --> 03:21:18,120
Mr. Hall.

2270
03:21:18,680 --> 03:21:19,180
Thank you, Chairman.

2271
03:21:20,140 --> 03:21:21,880
There was, I agree.

2272
03:21:23,720 --> 03:21:24,600
I thought you did.

2273
03:21:24,920 --> 03:21:25,900
I thought you did that.

2274
03:21:25,900 --> 03:21:33,460
And the photo was a pretty good job, but there was one issue that when I met with Sheriff

2275
03:21:33,460 --> 03:21:38,800
and their staff, we talked about the data that these cameras contain.

2276
03:21:40,080 --> 03:21:48,200
And it was my impression that we least, the cameras, and if they don't have video capability,

2277
03:21:48,480 --> 03:21:52,960
they don't have audio capability, they're only image capable.

2278
03:21:53,860 --> 03:22:02,080
And it was my understanding that the sheriff, they owned the data from these cameras, and it's

2279
03:22:02,080 --> 03:22:09,740
come to my attention in the contract with flock, that in the smaller print flock owns all

2280
03:22:09,740 --> 03:22:13,640
of the data, and the sheriff doesn't have any control of that.

2281
03:22:13,640 --> 03:22:29,980
I would like to see us in this ordinance, address that issue where if we have to end the lease with flock in order to gain the data ownership, I'd be willing to do that.

2282
03:22:30,000 --> 03:22:41,480
I think that's important that we own the data and control the data that's being taken publicly on the citizens, so I would like to see that added if it's possible.

2283
03:22:43,540 --> 03:22:56,240
Mr. Chairman, if I may respond to that, absolutely. That's why I wanted to have something drafted in front of you and have this early conversation, a second opportunity to have a first reading and then final ordinance.

2284
03:22:56,240 --> 03:22:58,680
I think all of those issues should be addressed.

2285
03:22:59,020 --> 03:23:03,800
These cameras are only used for license plate reading right now,

2286
03:23:03,960 --> 03:23:06,440
but they are capable of other functions.

2287
03:23:07,180 --> 03:23:08,820
Those other functions have been disabled.

2288
03:23:09,600 --> 03:23:12,160
And so this proposed ordinance would basically say

2289
03:23:12,160 --> 03:23:15,280
to the share of, it's okay to put those cameras

2290
03:23:15,280 --> 03:23:18,760
that have the capability of doing all of these things.

2291
03:23:19,160 --> 03:23:20,340
As long as there is a certification

2292
03:23:20,340 --> 03:23:22,260
that those capabilities are disabled.

2293
03:23:22,260 --> 03:23:27,260
So it's 100% in law with which you're suggesting as well.

2294
03:23:28,040 --> 03:23:28,960
Mr. Lukasher.

2295
03:23:29,240 --> 03:23:29,660
Thank you, Chairman.

2296
03:23:30,700 --> 03:23:35,440
We all spoke with the sheriff one on one because we all can't speak with him as a group unless he's in here.

2297
03:23:35,660 --> 03:23:40,160
So we did hear from him here and it was basically my invitation to come here.

2298
03:23:40,380 --> 03:23:46,340
He wound up coming two weeks later than what we had invited him to and that was just sort of a fluke.

2299
03:23:46,520 --> 03:23:51,640
And he even said to me, Tom and Cheek, I wish I would have come two weeks sooner because it would have been before the F dot.

2300
03:23:52,380 --> 03:23:55,260
memo and he would have had maybe a little bit of a different presentation.

2301
03:23:55,780 --> 03:23:57,300
But let me just sum it up by saying this.

2302
03:23:57,380 --> 03:24:00,540
One of the things that resonated with me is I asked the sheriff.

2303
03:24:02,420 --> 03:24:06,320
When the governor and F.D. came out with their proposal, their direction,

2304
03:24:07,080 --> 03:24:10,760
did they beforehand speak with all the sheriffs,

2305
03:24:11,120 --> 03:24:14,480
Palalda, all the main players, maybe even from the bigger counties together

2306
03:24:14,480 --> 03:24:17,420
to get their feedback and not line-side you,

2307
03:24:17,420 --> 03:24:23,320
you know, some sort of directive that was shot out or did you see it at the same time we did and he was very

2308
03:24:23,320 --> 03:24:27,960
honest and he said nobody checked in with me and you know I feel like I'm the save as county and

2309
03:24:27,960 --> 03:24:33,420
call your county so you would think I would have really gotten a call and you know it didn't say anything like

2310
03:24:33,420 --> 03:24:37,100
a disrespectful against the governor or the process that hey that's just how it works the governor

2311
03:24:37,100 --> 03:24:41,820
doesn't need Sheriff Rambaos permission to do anything but I think he would have appreciated it.

2312
03:24:43,080 --> 03:25:04,880
I think everything that's in this chat GPT, AI proposal, it might be a good start, but I can just say I feel like I'd like to see this come from the sheriff. I think we're doing the sheriff's homework for him, and I bet maybe he thought it was a great idea, but I think if I had a one-on-one meeting with him and said something totally opposite and said,

2313
03:25:04,880 --> 03:25:12,140
Sheriff, I'd like to give you 30 days to maybe take this suggested ordinance and fill in the

2314
03:25:12,140 --> 03:25:16,920
blanks, but then give us something that came from our colleague Sheriff who we respect so much,

2315
03:25:17,040 --> 03:25:22,800
have it be on your letterhead rather than the commissioners had to tell the Sheriff what to do.

2316
03:25:22,880 --> 03:25:28,180
I think he already knows the temperature of the water when it comes to House Citizen's

2317
03:25:28,180 --> 03:25:34,480
and what we've already talked about, so I think something improved here that has

2318
03:25:34,480 --> 03:25:40,380
issued to the sheriff. Even if it's with his help or support or what have you,

2319
03:25:40,420 --> 03:25:44,100
if he was in the room here, I would say Sheriff, we might come to the same

2320
03:25:44,100 --> 03:25:49,460
solution, but I'd like to see you present it, and with his expertise fill in all

2321
03:25:49,460 --> 03:25:52,860
the holes and whatnot rather than us, you know, create three or four different

2322
03:25:52,860 --> 03:25:58,160
drafts and mail it to the sheriff and say, what do you think about this? What do you

2323
03:25:58,160 --> 03:26:23,400
We give the sheriff a task or a homework assignment, a suggestion, and I think he's already working on it because some of the citizens that met with me, and I think met with all of us separately, have already provided the sheriff some details on these license plate reader cameras and some things that he, he may be kind of missed in his presentation here, so I think he's already chewing on it.

2324
03:26:23,400 --> 03:26:25,900
And I had those folks in my office just yesterday.

2325
03:26:25,960 --> 03:26:28,100
And my suggestion to them was the same thing.

2326
03:26:28,600 --> 03:26:29,840
You've given them all the information.

2327
03:26:31,140 --> 03:26:33,620
He said that he said, thank you.

2328
03:26:34,620 --> 03:26:35,760
Let me go talk to my attorneys.

2329
03:26:36,080 --> 03:26:37,460
He said, yeah, you're highlighting some things.

2330
03:26:37,660 --> 03:26:41,420
It definitely maybe I might have said wrong,

2331
03:26:41,560 --> 03:26:43,260
a spoke, or didn't even know about.

2332
03:26:43,800 --> 03:26:45,560
And what I told that group is, you know,

2333
03:26:45,580 --> 03:26:47,020
your next correspondent with the Sheriff

2334
03:26:47,020 --> 03:26:49,140
or maybe our correspondent should be

2335
03:26:49,140 --> 03:26:51,360
now that we're having a conversation back and forth.

2336
03:26:51,360 --> 03:27:05,320
Why doesn't the sheriff come up with a, with a, with a county ordinance that came from him that he authored that he worked with us on, but like I said, it's on his letterhead. I just think that's more polished.

2337
03:27:05,700 --> 03:27:13,500
It's more professional. I think it's more respectful to the sheriff, just like he would have liked to call from the governor and maybe to be part of the process.

2338
03:27:15,360 --> 03:27:22,160
So, I don't, and I read through the, the initial draft, so I think there's a lot of good things in there, like I said, there might be a few things missing.

2339
03:27:22,560 --> 03:27:30,180
But why don't we just give it to the sheriff informally and say, you know, we'd like you to come back here in next number of days, whatever we think is realistic, you know, not six months.

2340
03:27:31,240 --> 03:27:42,980
And present us with your first draft from our Collier County Sheriff, and I also think that would be very impressive, you know, to other counties in the state that our sheriff took the lead on law enforcement cameras.

2341
03:27:42,980 --> 03:27:49,880
that he installs and he owns and he came up, he took our advice, he took our feedback and

2342
03:27:49,880 --> 03:27:55,440
he came up with a county ordinance that we concurred with and I just think of, you know,

2343
03:27:55,640 --> 03:28:01,300
the chain of command to doing it that way is a lot more proper than us issuing him something

2344
03:28:01,300 --> 03:28:12,220
and he goes, oh yeah okay if that's what you want to do. That's my view of how I think is a better

2345
03:28:12,220 --> 03:28:16,060
way to do it. And I think we'll get a better product because rather than us trying to

2346
03:28:16,060 --> 03:28:19,220
brainstorm all these different drafts and going back and forth to the sheriff, just

2347
03:28:19,220 --> 03:28:22,960
give them something and let him work with his folks that work this issue every day.

2348
03:28:23,060 --> 03:28:28,580
He already knows the public, you know, feedback and our feedback as well. And I think we get

2349
03:28:28,580 --> 03:28:29,360
a better product.

2350
03:28:31,180 --> 03:28:31,800
There's some of Daniel.

2351
03:28:32,380 --> 03:28:32,780
Yes.

2352
03:28:33,060 --> 03:28:34,120
Can I respond to that?

2353
03:28:34,120 --> 03:28:34,300
No.

2354
03:28:34,740 --> 03:28:34,920
Okay.

2355
03:28:35,120 --> 03:28:35,260
Fine.

2356
03:28:35,820 --> 03:28:36,020
Sorry.

2357
03:28:37,780 --> 03:28:39,780
I'm going to say what you're going to say.

2358
03:28:39,780 --> 03:28:43,580
Well, I'm going to say that I take strong exception to everything that commissioner Castro just said.

2359
03:28:43,880 --> 03:28:49,540
Well, I don't take steps into it, but I don't agree with it and he already said I'm right all the time.

2360
03:28:49,860 --> 03:28:53,420
So just make sure a couple of things.

2361
03:28:53,760 --> 03:28:56,600
I agree 100% with Commissioner Hall.

2362
03:28:57,080 --> 03:29:04,500
I've said from the beginning, and Commissioner Coel, you explained it in, I call it simple

2363
03:29:04,500 --> 03:29:07,140
Billy terms when you were talking about the two keys.

2364
03:29:07,140 --> 03:29:15,880
That's right public in private and private's within the four walls of my home public your fair game

2365
03:29:16,400 --> 03:29:22,180
And we get our picture to a call of time if anybody else other than me is watching the lioness

2366
03:29:22,180 --> 03:29:23,780
You know what I'm talking about

2367
03:29:24,940 --> 03:29:29,520
So having said all that data control is imperative commissioner Saunders

2368
03:29:29,520 --> 03:29:35,840
We we we did in fact I like your or and now and I guess for a point of clarification

2369
03:29:35,840 --> 03:29:39,000
No, we voting today on the first reading of this ordinance.

2370
03:29:39,640 --> 03:29:40,000
Absolutely not.

2371
03:29:40,880 --> 03:29:41,080
Absolutely not.

2372
03:29:41,080 --> 03:29:43,340
So we're just having a discussion necessarily.

2373
03:29:44,200 --> 03:29:53,300
And so I like the funding aspect of this because it tells all of the sheriffs that we're ever going to have.

2374
03:29:53,620 --> 03:29:58,300
That the Board of County Commissioners has somewhat of a say so in the control of that data.

2375
03:29:59,520 --> 03:29:59,980
It's going to be.

2376
03:30:00,740 --> 03:30:08,180
There's going to be statute, come out this year, through the legislature, with regard to these, with regard to these cameras.

2377
03:30:09,220 --> 03:30:15,980
The sheriff, we talked about it with the sheriff when he was here. I would like to see it come from the legislature.

2378
03:30:16,680 --> 03:30:21,980
In cooperation and communication with our sheriff. That's one thing I do agree with you, Commissioner Le Castro.

2379
03:30:23,920 --> 03:30:29,820
I think it was a knee-jerk reaction on behalf of the governor somewhat hypocritical, frankly,

2380
03:30:30,960 --> 03:30:36,380
to disallow all of the flock cameras everywhere else except for over his toll boots, which

2381
03:30:36,380 --> 03:30:37,940
are taking the same dog on pictures.

2382
03:30:38,980 --> 03:30:45,650
And so I like the idea of what you're talking about here, Commissioner Saunders, I think

2383
03:30:45,650 --> 03:30:50,550
this puts some bumpers on in advance of that legislation that's in fact going to come

2384
03:30:50,550 --> 03:30:57,510
cross. And if you can add in before we do, in fact, have the first reading, because the

2385
03:30:57,510 --> 03:31:02,650
sheriff, you know, Christian Lecester, you talked, we all met with a sheriff. I felt really

2386
03:31:02,650 --> 03:31:06,850
good when I met with Chief Cunningham about their data control how long they keep it

2387
03:31:06,850 --> 03:31:12,570
out of what the utilize afford, their protocol with regard to the access to those to that

2388
03:31:12,570 --> 03:31:20,410
data. I felt really comfortable with all of that. But in further research, I've seen that

2389
03:31:20,410 --> 03:31:25,910
We don't necessarily own that data and that there may be opportunities for it to be, for

2390
03:31:25,910 --> 03:31:34,890
it to be pilpered in some way, shape or form, so bottom line is, I'm fine with what

2391
03:31:34,890 --> 03:31:41,130
you've proposed here, if we can add in the data, the control on the data aspect of it.

2392
03:31:42,110 --> 03:31:47,550
Mr. Sauner, back to taking some strong exception to what was just said.

2393
03:31:51,190 --> 03:32:02,550
I would say for the record, Commissioner McGanner was 1% correct as he usually is.

2394
03:32:03,210 --> 03:32:04,850
He agreed with Commissioner McGanner.

2395
03:32:06,830 --> 03:32:14,130
There were some statements made that I have to express that a strong exception to.

2396
03:32:14,130 --> 03:32:16,750
Things like this would be more respectful.

2397
03:32:18,470 --> 03:32:20,350
I have a great deal of respect for the sheriff.

2398
03:32:20,970 --> 03:32:25,390
As a matter of fact, I went over to the sheriff's office yesterday with the full intention

2399
03:32:25,390 --> 03:32:30,770
of getting his opinion and if he had said to me, you know, we'd like to go ahead and draft

2400
03:32:30,770 --> 03:32:31,690
this and we'll send it back.

2401
03:32:31,910 --> 03:32:32,690
I would have said fine.

2402
03:32:32,690 --> 03:32:36,850
I didn't go over there with the intention of trying to cram something down the sheriff's throat.

2403
03:32:36,890 --> 03:32:39,650
I went over there as a courtesy to say, here's what I'm thinking.

2404
03:32:40,030 --> 03:32:45,670
Here's an ordinance that I've drafted through AI that is kind of aligned with what I'm thinking.

2405
03:32:46,270 --> 03:32:52,430
What do you think? If he had said, well, let's let's hold off on this or let me do it.

2406
03:32:52,430 --> 03:32:57,650
That had been fine. But he didn't say that. He said, I agree. I think it's a good idea.

2407
03:32:58,150 --> 03:33:02,290
Send us what you send my lawyer what you have and let's move forward with it.

2408
03:33:02,290 --> 03:33:07,270
The other thing, as you said, that it would be more polished, well, I'm not sure how to polish this.

2409
03:33:07,650 --> 03:33:16,170
I will say that I'm trying to put together something from this board that is polished that the county attorney has and that the sheriff's attorney has.

2410
03:33:16,350 --> 03:33:17,790
So I don't even know what that means.

2411
03:33:18,410 --> 03:33:20,610
And then you mentioned more proper approach.

2412
03:33:21,290 --> 03:33:25,510
I'm not sure what's more proper than for me to go over to the sheriff's office.

2413
03:33:25,510 --> 03:33:29,490
hand them what I'm thinking and say, what do you think?

2414
03:33:29,890 --> 03:33:38,050
Let's move forward if you agree with it, and have them say, yes, I think that's, I think that is a proper approach.

2415
03:33:38,430 --> 03:33:40,250
Then you mentioned it'll be a better product.

2416
03:33:41,210 --> 03:33:44,890
This is a product that will be worked with the sheriff in the sheriff's attorney.

2417
03:33:45,410 --> 03:33:50,210
We will get a good product, it won't be a good product that comes just from the county commission.

2418
03:33:50,290 --> 03:33:54,950
It'll be a good product that comes with cooperation and work with the sheriff's department.

2419
03:33:54,950 --> 03:33:59,090
sign off from the Sheriff's Department and the agreement from the Sheriff's Department.

2420
03:33:59,230 --> 03:34:05,330
So I just have to say that I take kind of exception to the thought that I would do something

2421
03:34:05,330 --> 03:34:08,350
that was number one less respectful.

2422
03:34:09,150 --> 03:34:14,730
I would try to put together a product that was less polished or that I would use an improper approach

2423
03:34:14,730 --> 03:34:16,970
to doing this.

2424
03:34:17,930 --> 03:34:24,670
I'm kind of strong in my comments because this gets down to integrity, it gets down to things

2425
03:34:24,670 --> 03:34:29,030
that go personal, and I'm very, very protective of that.

2426
03:34:29,350 --> 03:34:33,750
So I'm trying to do this in the most respectful and proper way, and I thought this would

2427
03:34:33,750 --> 03:34:34,850
be the right way to do it.

2428
03:34:36,290 --> 03:34:41,150
So Mr. Chairman, my motion would be that we simply direct staff to work with the Sheriff's

2429
03:34:41,150 --> 03:34:47,850
office with their council, our county attorney, bring us back something, and a couple

2430
03:34:47,850 --> 03:34:52,110
of three, four weeks, whenever how long it takes, as a first draft, and then we'll have

2431
03:34:52,110 --> 03:34:57,810
second opportunity to add to it, things such as was recommended by Commissioner Hall.

2432
03:34:58,990 --> 03:34:59,670
Mr. Look after.

2433
03:35:00,210 --> 03:35:01,390
Well, I agree with the commissioner.

2434
03:35:01,950 --> 03:35:04,750
Let me clarify a few things.

2435
03:35:05,950 --> 03:35:08,470
And no way I was saying you personally were being disrespectful.

2436
03:35:09,770 --> 03:35:17,330
My comment was, I think the process of us, you know, signing something that the sheriff

2437
03:35:17,330 --> 03:35:36,130
That is a law enforcement issue is not as respectful as giving him ideas that are in the AI drafted ordinance and having him give us something that he has drafted and signed and then we're the second set of signatures

2438
03:35:36,130 --> 03:35:41,910
You know the law enforcement tool then comes from law enforcement so he might have thought it was a great idea in the office yesterday

2439
03:35:41,910 --> 03:35:45,930
But maybe if I would have been in the office yesterday, I'm proposed this, he would have said,

2440
03:35:46,050 --> 03:35:47,350
Wow, I like that even better.

2441
03:35:48,230 --> 03:35:51,090
So I guess I'm taking more of a not such a personal view.

2442
03:35:51,670 --> 03:35:55,650
So if you took of that way, my apologies, but I was talking more about the process.

2443
03:35:56,070 --> 03:36:02,430
Because even when we asked him when you were issued the directive from the Florida Department of Transportation

2444
03:36:02,430 --> 03:36:04,790
on the governor, would you think about that?

2445
03:36:04,790 --> 03:36:07,950
And he's such a professional guy that he wasn't going to throw on anybody under the bus.

2446
03:36:07,950 --> 03:36:15,870
But it was obvious he would have appreciated being able to be part of the process before it was authored.

2447
03:36:17,490 --> 03:36:23,650
I maybe feel different about government for some law enforcement type of tool.

2448
03:36:23,990 --> 03:36:31,090
I think it coming from legislators isn't as proper as it coming from the people who actually own it, which is law enforcement.

2449
03:36:31,090 --> 03:36:40,990
In the end, we may come to the same result, maybe we're going to have the same ordinance, but the signatures are just going to be reversed, it's authored by the sheriff, it's concurred for on by us.

2450
03:36:41,270 --> 03:36:57,730
That's what I think is more proper, so I have no problem with at least starting the conversation and giving them some drafts and whatnot, but my suggestion if the sheriff was here would be, you know, I'd like to see it typed on the computers in your office.

2451
03:36:57,730 --> 03:37:04,130
And I do think it would be, when I say polished, I think he is a lot more expertise on

2452
03:37:04,130 --> 03:37:04,830
law enforcement.

2453
03:37:05,190 --> 03:37:08,770
He talks to his counterparts regularly and we don't.

2454
03:37:09,290 --> 03:37:15,410
And so maybe if polish is a word that affends you, what I would say is maybe it would be

2455
03:37:15,410 --> 03:37:21,430
more complete, maybe it would be, it would have, you know, he can ensure it didn't have

2456
03:37:21,430 --> 03:37:27,130
some holes or loop holes, some things were not experts in, so I just feel that for an

2457
03:37:27,130 --> 03:37:29,970
That is addressing up.

2458
03:37:30,000 --> 03:37:43,780
A specific law enforcement tool, and those were his words, that our suggestion should be that he take our suggestions, but that any ordinance come from his office to us to concur with.

2459
03:37:44,420 --> 03:37:50,320
And the product may be exactly the same, but I think the procedure, the process,

2460
03:37:55,240 --> 03:37:59,980
the proper chain of command, much like the way I believe most sheriffs would have liked to see.

2461
03:37:59,980 --> 03:38:05,060
and what came down from them, from the state, would have been done.

2462
03:38:06,060 --> 03:38:11,280
I like government legislation a little less than government's telling the sheriff.

2463
03:38:11,920 --> 03:38:16,080
Here's your new ordinance, thanks for your input, but we signed it.

2464
03:38:16,140 --> 03:38:17,740
And then we asked you to concur on it.

2465
03:38:17,940 --> 03:38:19,420
I just think that that's backwards.

2466
03:38:20,540 --> 03:38:22,820
If it comes out with the same result and same wordage,

2467
03:38:22,840 --> 03:38:23,700
and we work on it together.

2468
03:38:24,000 --> 03:38:25,540
I think that's what's the most important thing.

2469
03:38:25,540 --> 03:38:40,920
But in the end I'd like to see our sheriff give us the final product that he and his experts have worked on rather than us drafted for him and just have him read multiple versions until he's okay with it.

2470
03:38:41,140 --> 03:38:48,960
And I think if he was here and we were having this healthy discussion, I would hope he would see the difference and it might be subtle, but I think it's important.

2471
03:38:50,160 --> 03:38:59,240
But just for expedience, let me just crack me from wrong county attorney, but the sheriff can't create an ordinance.

2472
03:38:59,760 --> 03:39:03,820
He's an executive officer to carry out enforcing an ordinance.

2473
03:39:04,100 --> 03:39:09,280
He would have to still work with us on an ordinance, just like any other ordinance that we do.

2474
03:39:09,580 --> 03:39:11,180
Like we did the like safety citizen.

2475
03:39:11,680 --> 03:39:15,860
We always worked on the hand with the sheriff when I didn't bet the sheriff.

2476
03:39:16,080 --> 03:39:17,460
Yeah, we do initial draft.

2477
03:39:18,040 --> 03:39:22,120
We all sit around talking about it, we have a reading, and we come back and we all add

2478
03:39:22,120 --> 03:39:26,760
our things out, and add things to it, and then eventually we get the sheriff's not at the end

2479
03:39:26,760 --> 03:39:28,260
of the day, and we create the ordinance.

2480
03:39:28,500 --> 03:39:29,460
He enforces it.

2481
03:39:30,140 --> 03:39:34,560
Now, the sheriff can make his own SOP, his own policy, and his own operational procedures within

2482
03:39:34,560 --> 03:39:39,720
the sheriff's office, but he can't create ordinance that's being forced upon the people

2483
03:39:39,720 --> 03:39:45,560
the Carter County. That's our job. Just for a heads up. So, Mr. Sergeant, do you want

2484
03:39:45,560 --> 03:39:49,120
to say anything else? Yeah, I was just going to say exactly what you said that we

2485
03:39:49,120 --> 03:39:54,640
drafted ordinances, but just to assure the public in the board, there's not going to be

2486
03:39:54,640 --> 03:39:59,060
a single word in any draft ordinance that this commission passes that the sheriff doesn't

2487
03:39:59,060 --> 03:40:04,160
sign off in the Gretto. So, this will be not just the sheriff drafting an ordinance. It won't

2488
03:40:04,160 --> 03:40:08,040
be just the county drafting an ordinance. This is going to be the county and the sheriff working

2489
03:40:08,040 --> 03:40:11,760
to gather hand in hand to draft an ordinance that will protect the citizens of Kyra County.

2490
03:40:12,560 --> 03:40:18,180
That was my goal, purely, not to run rough shot over the sheriff.

2491
03:40:18,860 --> 03:40:22,320
After all he has the guns and I don't, so I wouldn't want to do that.

2492
03:40:22,840 --> 03:40:26,720
It's the work closely with him and that's the way I've always operated on any ordinance

2493
03:40:26,720 --> 03:40:32,000
I've ever drafted or when I was in the legislature and in legislation, to have it be an

2494
03:40:32,000 --> 03:40:36,760
effort of the affected parties to make sure it's exactly what they want, as well as what

2495
03:40:36,760 --> 03:40:37,140
we want.

2496
03:40:37,700 --> 03:40:39,480
So no real offense was taken.

2497
03:40:39,680 --> 03:40:42,580
I just wanted to make a point and that's why I did it.

2498
03:40:42,760 --> 03:40:43,960
So no apologies, Nestle or anything.

2499
03:40:44,180 --> 03:40:46,200
I was just just just wanted to make a point.

2500
03:40:46,580 --> 03:40:47,600
So thank you.

2501
03:40:47,860 --> 03:40:48,920
So that's my motion.

2502
03:40:49,940 --> 03:40:50,300
That's the thing.

2503
03:40:50,860 --> 03:40:52,300
Anna, congratulations for the cash or the cash.

2504
03:40:52,380 --> 03:40:53,900
We're going to go ahead and vote on this in a second.

2505
03:40:54,100 --> 03:40:58,260
I guess my follow-up would be, is that everything doesn't have to be an ordinance.

2506
03:40:58,400 --> 03:41:05,340
Everything doesn't have to come from the legislative branch, but like I said, I'm not sitting

2507
03:41:05,340 --> 03:41:16,520
I'm here following on my sword over this, I just wanted to speak on a different angle of how I think, especially how I believe law enforcement works with my military background as well.

2508
03:41:16,640 --> 03:41:22,400
You know, a chain of command and sort of who's in charge of what, and the end, like I said, it could be an ordinance that was here.

2509
03:41:22,520 --> 03:41:26,440
But I think that I don't think I'll share if we'd use chat, GPT to come up with draft number one.

2510
03:41:26,440 --> 03:41:31,940
I think it used all of his experts who have actually been enforcing and utilizing these cameras correctly.

2511
03:41:31,940 --> 03:41:37,200
So however you want to hand it to him, I'm glad to hear that we'll work hand it hand and if his

2512
03:41:37,200 --> 03:41:41,580
signature is on the left or the right and we think it doesn't matter and this sheriff doesn't

2513
03:41:41,580 --> 03:41:42,320
think it matters.

2514
03:41:43,520 --> 03:41:51,000
Well, as long as we come up with a good document that gives clear direction, I just feel we're

2515
03:41:51,000 --> 03:41:55,420
doing it a little bit backwards but it's not enough to follow my sword over.

2516
03:41:56,360 --> 03:41:58,340
I'm gonna have a motion in a second.

2517
03:41:58,560 --> 03:42:02,640
All in favor on us moving forward in the process because it's all we're doing correctly.

2518
03:42:03,460 --> 03:42:03,480
Bye.

2519
03:42:05,320 --> 03:42:05,560
Bye.

2520
03:42:06,140 --> 03:42:09,020
I call this St. John St. John St. John St. John.

2521
03:42:09,120 --> 03:42:10,340
All right. I'm sorry.

2522
03:42:10,840 --> 03:42:13,880
All right. It's 12.37. Let's be back.

2523
03:42:13,960 --> 03:42:15,500
Let's take an hour for lunch.

2524
03:42:16,400 --> 03:42:17,720
Back at 1.37.

2525
04:38:10,210 --> 04:38:11,050
You

2526
04:39:08,650 --> 04:39:14,490
said I'll give me one dollar,

2527
04:39:17,140 --> 04:39:25,000
got to give you a man. It was a present from my mother.

2528
04:41:39,050 --> 04:41:43,210
All right, everyone, if you've got to take your seats, we're going to go ahead and get started again.

2529
04:41:44,130 --> 04:41:46,290
I think we're going to go right into the county manager.

2530
04:41:46,510 --> 04:41:52,550
I believe we're 9C and 9C and 9C.

2531
04:41:52,550 --> 04:41:59,850
with 9c. This is a recommendation to approve an ordinance, amending ordinance, 89-05, as amended.

2532
04:42:00,130 --> 04:42:06,570
The Coyote County Growth Management Plan to amend ordinance, oh, I just heard that twice. Sorry about that.

2533
04:42:08,050 --> 04:42:13,170
Specifically, amending the future land use elements and maps to change the land use designation

2534
04:42:13,170 --> 04:42:19,150
from agricultural rural designation, rural fringe, mixed use district spending lands to agricultural

2535
04:42:19,150 --> 04:42:22,970
rural, designation, agricultural, rural mixed-use district.

2536
04:42:23,550 --> 04:42:26,390
341-sabled palm-road golf course sub-district,

2537
04:42:26,690 --> 04:42:28,270
to allow an 18-hole golf course

2538
04:42:28,270 --> 04:42:30,610
managed in accordance with the best management practices

2539
04:42:30,610 --> 04:42:33,650
of the Audubon International's gold signature program,

2540
04:42:34,550 --> 04:42:37,070
and transient lodging facilities in the form of 10

2541
04:42:37,070 --> 04:42:38,950
member-guest golf cottages.

2542
04:42:39,330 --> 04:42:41,730
And furthermore, directing transmittal of the adoption

2543
04:42:41,730 --> 04:42:43,990
amendment to the Florida Department of Commerce,

2544
04:42:44,510 --> 04:42:47,510
providing for severability and providing for an effective date,

2545
04:42:47,510 --> 04:42:54,590
The subject property is 169.19 plus minus acres and located on the south side of Sable Palm Road,

2546
04:42:54,870 --> 04:43:01,890
approximately 1.4 miles east of Collier Boulevard, and section 25, township 50 south range 26 east

2547
04:43:01,890 --> 04:43:08,250
Collier County, Florida. It's companion item 9D is a recommendation to approve an ordinance

2548
04:43:08,250 --> 04:43:13,270
amending ordered number 2004-41 is amended at the Collier County Land Development Code,

2549
04:43:13,270 --> 04:43:17,630
which established the comprehensive zoning regulations for the unincorporated area of

2550
04:43:17,630 --> 04:43:22,990
Callier County, Florida by amending the appropriate zoning atlas map or maps by changing

2551
04:43:22,990 --> 04:43:27,730
the zoning classification of the here and described real property from a rural agricultural

2552
04:43:27,730 --> 04:43:33,470
zoning district within the rural mixed rural fringe mixed use district overlay sending areas

2553
04:43:33,470 --> 04:43:41,570
and the natural resource protection overlay and partly in the special treatment overlay to a

2554
04:43:41,570 --> 04:43:46,570
Community Facility Plan Unit Development Zoning District for the project to be known as the

2555
04:43:46,570 --> 04:43:53,410
341-Sable Palm Road, CFPUD, to allow an 18-hole golf course management accordance with

2556
04:43:53,410 --> 04:43:57,970
the best management practices of the Audubon International Signature Sanctuary Certification

2557
04:43:57,970 --> 04:44:03,550
Gold Level, and Transient Logic Facilities in the form of 10 member guest golf cottage units,

2558
04:44:04,010 --> 04:44:09,950
and by providing an effective date, the subject property consisting of 169.19 plus minus acres

2559
04:44:09,950 --> 04:44:14,970
is located on the south side of stable palm road. Approximately 1.4 miles east of

2560
04:44:14,970 --> 04:44:20,170
call your boulevard in section 25 township 50 south range 26 east call your county

2561
04:44:20,170 --> 04:44:23,070
Florida. With that commissioner's ex-partei.

2562
04:44:23,830 --> 04:44:29,490
Mr. Sons. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I have the whole list of ex-partei communications involving

2563
04:44:29,490 --> 04:44:32,510
letters, emails, and telephone calls and meetings.

2564
04:44:34,130 --> 04:44:35,090
Mr. Hall.

2565
04:44:35,090 --> 04:44:37,690
Me too. I got the whole shoot match.

2566
04:44:37,830 --> 04:44:39,910
All right. Commissioner of the Castro.

2567
04:44:39,990 --> 04:44:41,890
Same here. All they booked.

2568
04:44:42,330 --> 04:44:44,410
Commissioner of a Daniel. Me too.

2569
04:44:45,250 --> 04:44:47,270
I guess we got a full house. I got me too.

2570
04:44:47,590 --> 04:44:50,770
All the same. So that being said.

2571
04:44:51,070 --> 04:44:54,590
Yes, with that, we need everyone who plans on testifying and

2572
04:44:54,590 --> 04:44:57,510
including public speakers to stand and be sworn in by the court reporter.

2573
04:45:08,810 --> 04:45:22,170
Just like earlier, just if we can all respect each other's time, we're at the podium. When you're at the podium, I know we're going to, I think, Tom, we have how many public speakers? 40, 40, any on, on liner?

2574
04:45:22,270 --> 04:45:31,830
Yes, 34 in the room and six on Zoom. Okay. Okay. So once again, this is, you know, have the quorum that we had earlier, we respect everybody's time, whatever up there.

2575
04:45:32,910 --> 04:45:41,870
And then we will go ahead, I don't know if people were familiar, this item we've heard back in I want to say to you and you were here.

2576
04:45:42,290 --> 04:45:43,870
It was pretty way back.

2577
04:45:44,210 --> 04:45:44,950
Yeah, it's been a while.

2578
04:45:45,130 --> 04:45:48,050
Since my first, I think it was one of my first meetings as chair.

2579
04:45:48,690 --> 04:45:51,030
And I think we went six and a half hours.

2580
04:45:53,370 --> 04:45:55,230
The eight, maybe I heard from the audience.

2581
04:45:56,610 --> 04:45:59,490
I think at one point we got to the point where we were like, listen,

2582
04:45:59,490 --> 04:46:04,090
We have several people in this book, we have several people represented several organizations

2583
04:46:04,090 --> 04:46:11,690
like Audubon, Conservation, a couple of different conservancy type organizations.

2584
04:46:12,010 --> 04:46:17,410
And I think that today we decided to let the owner, his attorneys, and Commissioner

2585
04:46:17,410 --> 04:46:24,690
LaCaster, you participated in some sort of action after the fact that with these other

2586
04:46:24,690 --> 04:46:29,250
organizations and their representatives too because there was several comments that there

2587
04:46:29,250 --> 04:46:34,450
was organizations out there that are interested in the property that would want to

2588
04:46:34,450 --> 04:46:37,470
maybe participate in purchasing the property from the owner.

2589
04:46:37,930 --> 04:46:43,350
And I think the end result was that there was never really any resolve.

2590
04:46:43,630 --> 04:46:43,910
No, man.

2591
04:46:43,930 --> 04:46:44,430
Summarines.

2592
04:46:44,710 --> 04:46:45,710
If you could, please.

2593
04:46:45,710 --> 04:46:50,010
Yeah, just for the folks in the audience, we got plenty of emails this week and do this,

2594
04:46:50,210 --> 04:46:50,770
do that to this.

2595
04:46:50,910 --> 04:46:51,950
We've actually done a lot.

2596
04:46:51,950 --> 04:46:53,290
I mean, when we were in this room,

2597
04:46:53,930 --> 04:46:57,410
what earlier in the year, as Commissioner Cole all said,

2598
04:46:57,410 --> 04:47:00,670
you know, a proposal came to us for 400 plus houses,

2599
04:47:01,130 --> 04:47:03,410
and you know, that we not necessarily just proved that,

2600
04:47:03,450 --> 04:47:06,030
but between then and now, we had people at the podium

2601
04:47:06,030 --> 04:47:08,750
that made statements like, oh, there's a million other things

2602
04:47:08,750 --> 04:47:09,730
you can do with that property.

2603
04:47:09,970 --> 04:47:13,490
And boy, there's so many people that would be interested in investing in it.

2604
04:47:13,490 --> 04:47:14,330
And so I said, great.

2605
04:47:14,550 --> 04:47:19,030
I will hunt show as many meetings as possible with environmental groups,

2606
04:47:19,070 --> 04:47:20,770
with citizens, with anyone involved,

2607
04:47:20,770 --> 04:47:49,630
Because we want all possible options rather than just, you know, you got to make it a dog park, you know, I mean, you know, we need realistic things and then the county commissioner conference room, we hosted multiple meetings with the applicant without the applicant with the with the property owner with environmental groups with even even a group that said that they were interested in making an offer for the for the property and in the end, all those things were sort of great discussion.

2608
04:47:49,630 --> 04:47:58,970
but none of them had had any air speed at all, they weren't investors who came forward to

2609
04:47:58,970 --> 04:48:04,810
the environmental groups and the environmental groups weren't able to get their donors to

2610
04:48:04,810 --> 04:48:11,610
cough up the money and make up, make up and offer to the owner. The person that came that had an

2611
04:48:11,610 --> 04:48:16,590
idea was to young gentlemen and they wanted to turn it into a like a dune buggy and a motorcycle

2612
04:48:16,590 --> 04:48:21,150
race track, which certainly didn't, and they didn't have the funds basically to do it.

2613
04:48:21,610 --> 04:48:24,470
So we've spent, you know, we haven't just kicked the can on this one.

2614
04:48:24,630 --> 04:48:28,850
We've spent a lot of time meeting with different groups and keeping the lines of communication

2615
04:48:28,850 --> 04:48:33,290
wide open, so that if there was something that we weren't thinking of or, you know, citizens

2616
04:48:33,290 --> 04:48:37,070
are very active on social media, saying, you know, the county should do this, the county should

2617
04:48:37,070 --> 04:48:37,650
do that.

2618
04:48:38,090 --> 04:48:43,670
And I will tell you, we did all of those things, and so, but one of the things we also

2619
04:48:43,670 --> 04:48:49,450
at the last meeting and it was even a challenge of sort of speak by some people who spoke

2620
04:48:49,450 --> 04:48:54,210
against the houses which we did vote down. I'm at the podium and said, you know, bring

2621
04:48:54,210 --> 04:49:00,230
up, bring an option that would be environmentally friendly that wouldn't cause huge traffic

2622
04:49:00,230 --> 04:49:04,950
backups that wouldn't build 400 homes that wouldn't destroy the land and the water and all

2623
04:49:04,950 --> 04:49:10,930
of that. So that was one of the options and just to tie up one other loose end, I got plenty

2624
04:49:10,930 --> 04:49:17,230
emails, we all did, from some people, even last night, saying, you know, the owner agreed

2625
04:49:17,970 --> 04:49:24,650
to appraise the property on conservation call, and we agreed on my motion to move forward

2626
04:49:24,650 --> 04:49:29,490
within appraisal. And those of you that got emails from me, the property was appraised. It

2627
04:49:29,490 --> 04:49:34,810
did come up with a number, but the one correction was just because the owner filled out the paper

2628
04:49:34,810 --> 04:49:39,850
work and agreed to allow us to appraise the property. Doesn't mean the owner was interested,

2629
04:49:39,850 --> 04:49:46,930
You know, a lot of people said, you need to take the owners, you know, offer the offer that you've made,

2630
04:49:47,070 --> 04:49:51,190
the owner sounds like he wants to sell to conservation collier, and that wasn't the case.

2631
04:49:51,450 --> 04:49:56,590
We wanted the opportunity to be able to run the conservation collier option all the way to the finish line,

2632
04:49:56,630 --> 04:50:00,110
which we did, but we can't make the owner purchase it.

2633
04:50:00,470 --> 04:50:04,230
So all of those things were exhausted over all this time, and that's why now we're back here.

2634
04:50:04,230 --> 04:50:11,350
And the owner does have the rights to, to trust to hear ideas that they have and for us to consider them.

2635
04:50:11,570 --> 04:50:16,970
And we also will consider anything else that was out there, but, you know, we weren't sitting on any big solutions.

2636
04:50:18,470 --> 04:50:22,210
And certainly, we ran the conservation, higher option all the way to the finish line.

2637
04:50:22,410 --> 04:50:27,470
But, you know, the owner rejected the offer just a day or two ago. I think formally.

2638
04:50:27,470 --> 04:50:41,910
So that's where we are here, and a lot has been done to try to come up with some very unique solution that is the best of all worlds and we haven't gotten to it.

2639
04:50:42,470 --> 04:50:50,590
So I appreciate you kind of bringing everybody up to speed. I know you spend a lot of time on that and I know a lot of people in the room.

2640
04:50:50,590 --> 04:50:55,650
you know, some of them probably the same people were here last time, sat through this, we're

2641
04:50:55,650 --> 04:51:01,950
going to do it again today, but they are bringing another idea, a different concept forward

2642
04:51:01,950 --> 04:51:07,970
for this property in lieu of just being an old orange grove, because I think ultimately

2643
04:51:07,970 --> 04:51:12,730
today what we're basically going to decide is either it stays an old orange grove or it

2644
04:51:12,730 --> 04:51:20,530
becomes something else and the other else is offering or putting up the chance to ask for permission

2645
04:51:20,530 --> 04:51:25,690
to do this golf course. So that's basically where we're at right now. All those other options

2646
04:51:25,690 --> 04:51:31,010
that we were thinking of or had people saying would work or would work. We tried them.

2647
04:51:31,090 --> 04:51:36,710
I mean, we went exhausted at the ability to find other avenues or other people willing to invest

2648
04:51:36,710 --> 04:51:43,230
in the property and it fell short. So basically what's before us today is we're going to weigh

2649
04:51:43,230 --> 04:51:51,390
different what's what's better in old orange growth or possibly a golf course that

2650
04:51:52,170 --> 04:51:56,350
supposedly under certain circumstances is some sort of a lot of bond. I guess we'll

2651
04:51:56,350 --> 04:52:01,030
learn more about it on a bond international certified golf course as I guess they

2652
04:52:01,030 --> 04:52:07,730
have them throughout the country. So we'll go ahead from there. Potitioner. Thank you.

2653
04:52:07,890 --> 04:52:12,670
Thank you. Thank you. For the record, Rich Uonovich on behalf of the

2654
04:52:12,670 --> 04:52:26,390
which is the Smith family as well as the applicant, which is SWJR Naples 1 LLC with me today is our expert plan or Alexis Crespo, our transportation consultant,

2655
04:52:26,390 --> 04:52:29,970
in order to build a co-occur and buy a melt and solve it, TMI.

2656
04:52:30,000 --> 04:52:51,360
All, we left out our engineer. Sorry. Our engineer is here as well on the slip end. I have two golf course related consultants. One is Tim Hilderbrand. He will talk about the need and there is a demand for additional golf courses in

2657
04:52:51,360 --> 04:52:53,060
in Carter County.

2658
04:52:53,140 --> 04:52:55,920
People have said there isn't, but we will show you

2659
04:52:55,920 --> 04:52:57,320
that there is, in fact, a demand.

2660
04:52:58,420 --> 04:53:02,860
And Aldori, who is, I'll let him introduce yourself.

2661
04:53:03,040 --> 04:53:05,200
But himself, he was with WCI, Kitson.

2662
04:53:05,420 --> 04:53:07,240
He was with the DEP for the state.

2663
04:53:07,880 --> 04:53:11,500
And he has actually been involved in 12 auto-bond gold

2664
04:53:11,500 --> 04:53:13,880
signature golf courses, so he'll

2665
04:53:13,880 --> 04:53:16,940
be able to explain the environmental benefits of that program.

2666
04:53:16,940 --> 04:53:28,180
Before I get too far into this, this autobahn international certification is in your growth

2667
04:53:28,180 --> 04:53:31,380
management plan and it's in your land development code.

2668
04:53:32,020 --> 04:53:33,260
We didn't make this up.

2669
04:53:33,540 --> 04:53:39,760
This is the standard that was adopted as part of the rural fringe mixed use district when

2670
04:53:39,760 --> 04:53:46,920
it was implemented in the early 2000s and that, if you were recall, that rural fringe

2671
04:53:46,920 --> 04:53:54,520
This mixed-use district program came about as a result of environmental groups, challenging

2672
04:53:54,520 --> 04:53:56,400
the county's growth management plan.

2673
04:53:57,000 --> 04:54:03,460
And those very same environmental groups had a very heavy hand in designing the Royal

2674
04:54:03,460 --> 04:54:09,060
French mixed-use district standards, including including this autobiant gold certification

2675
04:54:09,060 --> 04:54:12,680
standard in the land development code as it exists today.

2676
04:54:12,680 --> 04:54:19,560
So I find it hard to sit here and listen and I'm sure we'll hear it again because we heard it to plenty commission.

2677
04:54:20,680 --> 04:54:28,860
There's very same people around criticizing the program that they had a hand including in the gross management plan.

2678
04:54:29,020 --> 04:54:40,420
But you'll hear from how that is, a program that takes into consideration environmental issues related to the development of the proposed golf course.

2679
04:54:41,460 --> 04:54:47,380
I think, you know, Christian Castro has summed it up very well, we did, we did everything

2680
04:54:47,380 --> 04:54:52,680
after us. We applied to the Conservation Coyote Program. We were asked to do that we did.

2681
04:54:53,080 --> 04:54:57,260
If you all were to call, you guys struggled with even going forward with the appraisal because

2682
04:54:57,260 --> 04:55:02,340
you didn't think that the grove really met the criteria for the Conservation Coyote Program.

2683
04:55:02,600 --> 04:55:07,660
But in fairness, you all said, well, let us appraise it and see if it comes up with a number

2684
04:55:07,660 --> 04:55:13,000
that makes sense, but it is not a classification-carder piece of property.

2685
04:55:15,140 --> 04:55:21,600
It didn't score the way I really should have scored to be considered, but nonetheless we did

2686
04:55:21,600 --> 04:55:22,560
receive an offer.

2687
04:55:25,320 --> 04:55:30,120
It was not consistent with something that the property owner is willing to accept.

2688
04:55:33,080 --> 04:55:39,220
No buyers have come forward, it's no waiting, and then we were also asked, and all the

2689
04:55:39,220 --> 04:55:44,140
I disagree, and there was actually no vote at the last meeting we continued before there

2690
04:55:44,140 --> 04:55:49,180
was a vote so that we could come up with other alternatives so the petition could stay alive.

2691
04:55:49,960 --> 04:55:54,940
So if we could come up with a less intensive use, we could present that less intensive use.

2692
04:55:54,940 --> 04:56:01,880
So, we have a much less intensive use that we're going to go through with a lot of experts.

2693
04:56:02,180 --> 04:56:06,600
I'm not going to, I'm just going to briefly go back where we are, just for purposes of,

2694
04:56:06,600 --> 04:56:08,800
this is 169 acre.

2695
04:56:09,280 --> 04:56:10,220
Orange Grove.

2696
04:56:10,500 --> 04:56:12,140
It's basically a dead orange Grove.

2697
04:56:13,740 --> 04:56:20,140
As you're all aware, basically the citrus industry is a dying industry in Florida.

2698
04:56:20,580 --> 04:56:24,280
This is a dying orange Grove.

2699
04:56:26,940 --> 04:56:32,720
Also, I want to point out, and Alexis is going to get in this from a compatibility standpoint.

2700
04:56:33,740 --> 04:56:40,820
We're not asking him to creep a commercial use into a residential neighborhood.

2701
04:56:40,900 --> 04:56:47,020
If you look in the screen, we're 2,100 feet from Verona Walk.

2702
04:56:48,400 --> 04:56:51,480
And that's a preserve between us and Verona Walk.

2703
04:56:51,480 --> 04:56:55,580
So unlike what you heard earlier, we're not trying to do a commercial project.

2704
04:56:55,820 --> 04:57:03,160
We are a golf course only development with 10 cottages that will serve the members.

2705
04:57:03,940 --> 04:57:12,820
We're not trying to trick the county into giving us an approval that we will then be able to use to do a live local project.

2706
04:57:13,420 --> 04:57:19,360
If we wanted to do a live local project, we've already been pursuing the live local project through their court system.

2707
04:57:19,360 --> 04:57:25,300
We want to do what we committed to do is to build a project that is compatible with

2708
04:57:25,300 --> 04:57:31,160
our neighbors, and that is environmentally compatible with what is around us.

2709
04:57:31,460 --> 04:57:35,940
So what you have in front of you today is a growth management plan amendment to create

2710
04:57:35,940 --> 04:57:43,200
the Savel Pomp Road Golf Course Subdistrict and a rezoned to a community facility

2711
04:57:43,200 --> 04:57:55,120
PUD to allow for the 18-hole golf course with 10 transient member gift guest golf couches.

2712
04:57:57,740 --> 04:58:01,960
We are comfortable imposing a deed restriction on the property.

2713
04:58:02,180 --> 04:58:04,720
You say that this property will never be developed as residential.

2714
04:58:05,400 --> 04:58:07,080
We've done that in other examples.

2715
04:58:07,320 --> 04:58:13,160
Most recently I did a golf condo and a car condo project on Santa Barbara.

2716
04:58:13,160 --> 04:58:17,940
But there was a concern that by allowing that commercial use in this residential neighborhood

2717
04:58:17,940 --> 04:58:23,600
would be the Supreme Board to a live local project.

2718
04:58:23,880 --> 04:58:27,800
We agreed to record a deed restriction and we recorded that deed restriction for a

2719
04:58:27,800 --> 04:58:29,740
happening residential development on that property.

2720
04:58:30,960 --> 04:58:37,460
We're willing to do that on this and we're also willing if it's the will of the commission

2721
04:58:38,000 --> 04:58:39,780
so we'll eliminate the cottages altogether.

2722
04:58:39,780 --> 04:58:47,800
We think it's a good amount to you for the club, but we are not interested in a live local project.

2723
04:58:48,960 --> 04:58:52,540
So we want to get that out there early on and we'll say that often.

2724
04:58:52,920 --> 04:58:55,420
We are not going to do a residential development on this property.

2725
04:58:55,480 --> 04:58:56,360
That's not our goal.

2726
04:58:57,380 --> 04:59:08,100
Our goal is to honor our commitment to come back to you with a less intense use on the property that is compatible with the surrounding and is environmentally friendly.

2727
04:59:08,100 --> 04:59:14,200
And then you will hear that from our environmental consultant, Tim Hall, about environmental

2728
04:59:14,200 --> 04:59:14,880
compatibility.

2729
04:59:15,540 --> 04:59:20,120
You'll hear from, again, an owl on how the design of the golf course takes into consideration

2730
04:59:20,120 --> 04:59:27,700
this surrounding environment and how it actually will result in better water quality going

2731
04:59:27,700 --> 04:59:32,820
into the preserves around the property than exist today through the orange groves.

2732
04:59:33,480 --> 04:59:51,880
A couple of important provisions I want to highlight in our sub-district is D. I've already talked about the Audubon International Signature Sanctuary Gold Certification that is taking from your existing comprehensive plan.

2733
04:59:53,160 --> 04:59:59,600
Also, I wanted to point out in letter E that

2734
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:17,640
In order to prevent the contamination of soil, surface water and groundwater by the materials stored and handled by the golf course maintenance operations, golf courses shall comply with the best management practices for golf course maintenance departments prepared by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.

2735
05:00:17,640 --> 05:00:45,560
So there are safeguards in the comprehensive plan, as well as in the PUD, you safeguard storm water and environmental related issues that the golf course will be able to be compatible with the surrounding preserve areas and fit in nicely with the surroundings.

2736
05:00:46,380 --> 05:00:52,600
Again, the property ours didn't know what was happening to them when the Royal

2737
05:00:52,600 --> 05:00:55,040
François cheese district program was being initiated.

2738
05:00:56,260 --> 05:01:01,360
I think your staff testified to the Plans of Commission that had they got involved in

2739
05:01:01,360 --> 05:01:02,920
this program at the very beginning.

2740
05:01:02,980 --> 05:01:09,800
This land probably would have been designated neutral or receiving lands, had they involved themselves

2741
05:01:09,800 --> 05:01:10,380
in this problem.

2742
05:01:10,540 --> 05:01:11,100
But they didn't.

2743
05:01:11,220 --> 05:01:11,900
They didn't know about it.

2744
05:01:11,900 --> 05:01:18,140
are where we are. But when you look at that orange grove, it is not a sending land piece of property.

2745
05:01:19,260 --> 05:01:29,280
So we are asking for an 18-hole golf course, 10 transient number cottages. There are four bedrooms

2746
05:01:30,060 --> 05:01:36,160
each with a maximum stay of 30 days. Those were conditions that your staff thought were appropriate to make

2747
05:01:36,160 --> 05:01:41,360
sure we weren't going to have any residential homes on this property. So we incorporated that.

2748
05:01:41,360 --> 05:01:47,120
We have 70% usable open space. The reality is we'll have more than that because it's a golf course

2749
05:01:47,120 --> 05:01:53,940
But that's the minimum standard same thing with the preservation of native vegetation. I'll show you on our master plan

2750
05:01:53,940 --> 05:01:59,240
We really don't have much native vegetation and we're well above the 35% requirement

2751
05:01:59,920 --> 05:02:05,630
We're gonna have a clubhouse practice facilities maintenance facilities water management facilities and

2752
05:02:07,180 --> 05:02:10,480
related recreational amenities for this golf only

2753
05:02:11,360 --> 05:02:35,300
golf course. We're not a country club. That's going to be allowed users. It's a golf, it's just a golf course with numbers. We're a low trip generator, 57, two way peak hour net trips is a high number. Because your IT manual includes public golf courses when they're talking about how they calculate peak hour trips. We're a private golf course.

2754
05:02:35,300 --> 05:02:43,620
We will not have 57 two way peak hour trips and we didn't even subtract in that 57

2755
05:02:43,620 --> 05:02:46,840
There's already trips coming and going from the

2756
05:02:48,680 --> 05:02:52,000
When the retail operations that are occurring on the side already

2757
05:02:52,000 --> 05:03:00,060
So this is we didn't even subtract out from this number. This is the worst case number as if this was property that had no trips going to it today

2758
05:03:00,060 --> 05:03:01,780
So first 57

2759
05:03:01,780 --> 05:03:09,520
and two way PMP power trips, and two, and we're going to have private onsite well-inceptic

2760
05:03:09,520 --> 05:03:14,600
to serve the golf course clubhouse as well as we have the bathrooms on the golf course.

2761
05:03:15,140 --> 05:03:19,720
So we're not extending public water, we're not extending public sewer, so this property

2762
05:03:19,720 --> 05:03:26,060
isn't going to all of some transform itself into a 400 plus residential development because

2763
05:03:26,060 --> 05:03:33,020
will not have the necessary utilities to serve anything but a golf course. So what we've tried

2764
05:03:33,020 --> 05:03:41,360
to do is make it very clear, very transparent, that we have a low impact use on this property.

2765
05:03:43,300 --> 05:03:50,480
One of the things in my one-on-ones that we had previously committed when this was a residential

2766
05:03:50,480 --> 05:03:55,760
development to doing this to assist getting the water on the north side of Sabel

2767
05:03:55,760 --> 05:04:00,940
Palm to the south side of Sabel Palm. Commissioner McGangiel and our 101

2768
05:04:00,940 --> 05:04:06,120
reminded me of that commitment and said, are you going to continue to do that?

2769
05:04:06,220 --> 05:04:11,320
And I said, well, I wouldn't plan it on it. He goes, yes, you are. So we will commit to

2770
05:04:11,880 --> 05:04:19,900
providing those two culverts underneath Sabel Palm Road. So water in the area can

2771
05:04:19,900 --> 05:04:27,160
go from the north to the south to save opomax like a dam. So we need to add that commitment

2772
05:04:27,700 --> 05:04:36,340
to the PUD should we get to a point where you bring a boat to recommend or actually you

2773
05:04:36,340 --> 05:04:42,860
don't recommend. You decide should you decide to approve. So we've committed to providing

2774
05:04:42,860 --> 05:04:50,270
those additional call of water management benefits to the overall community.

2775
05:04:51,310 --> 05:04:57,890
One other question that I was asked about was there seems to be a little bit of a drain

2776
05:04:57,890 --> 05:05:07,270
issue in community nearby, it's escaping me for the moment, the dammer in the dammer in the

2777
05:05:09,350 --> 05:05:17,910
We are willing to, they don't have a problem treating their water, they have a problem getting rid of the water.

2778
05:05:18,750 --> 05:05:23,110
So we're willing to take, and they got us to get us to numbers.

2779
05:05:23,410 --> 05:05:33,310
I can't say we'll take every drop of water on that property, but we're willing to take the water they can't get rid of right now through their system, through our system.

2780
05:05:33,870 --> 05:05:39,990
They'll have to get the water to us, but we'll take it through our system, and in exchange

2781
05:05:39,990 --> 05:05:45,210
for that we need to know what that number is within 90 days, and we want them to, and

2782
05:05:45,210 --> 05:05:51,470
we've estimated, we've got to guess as to what it, as a guest as to what it is and what

2783
05:05:51,470 --> 05:05:53,930
it's going to cost us to accommodate that.

2784
05:05:53,930 --> 05:06:00,830
We're going to ask them to pay for the necessary upgrades to accommodate that water.

2785
05:06:00,830 --> 05:06:02,910
we estimate that at about $500,000.

2786
05:06:04,030 --> 05:06:07,650
So we will help Timberindo solve their water management problem

2787
05:06:07,650 --> 05:06:11,190
as part of this, we could take them through our system,

2788
05:06:11,330 --> 05:06:13,930
but we're not going to take on the cost of that.

2789
05:06:14,690 --> 05:06:18,030
So we're willing to, they passed the $500,000,

2790
05:06:18,210 --> 05:06:21,670
we estimated, we'll take their water through our system

2791
05:06:24,420 --> 05:06:27,880
and disperse it at the appropriate discharge rates.

2792
05:06:28,780 --> 05:06:30,380
So they'll get us through clean water,

2793
05:06:30,380 --> 05:06:36,080
We'll disperse it through our project into the adjacent preserve.

2794
05:06:36,920 --> 05:06:44,500
So we're willing to take on and assist not only into the golf course to take on and assist in water management issues that are in this area,

2795
05:06:45,040 --> 05:06:47,680
that are there today without our project.

2796
05:06:48,400 --> 05:06:54,900
So there are additional besides this being an economically and economically and environmentally sensitive project.

2797
05:06:54,900 --> 05:07:01,700
We are also willing to dissipate and solving some public problems in that area.

2798
05:07:03,840 --> 05:07:09,340
With regard to the master plan, I don't point here, do I?

2799
05:07:11,340 --> 05:07:12,500
This is an odd.

2800
05:07:14,590 --> 05:07:15,170
But that's okay.

2801
05:07:15,390 --> 05:07:20,070
You could see the two native preservation areas that are the native areas that we have on

2802
05:07:20,070 --> 05:07:20,550
our property.

2803
05:07:20,710 --> 05:07:25,350
We're basically keeping the only native areas that are on our property as part of our master plan.

2804
05:07:26,250 --> 05:07:29,970
Our access, we have one access, many access point, thank you.

2805
05:07:30,620 --> 05:07:36,020
These are the two, just the native areas that are on our site, we're keeping them both.

2806
05:07:37,000 --> 05:07:41,600
Our main access to the golf course is right here off of Sable Palm.

2807
05:07:42,240 --> 05:07:47,600
And then we have a secondary access for our maintenance facility on Sable Palm.

2808
05:07:48,240 --> 05:07:52,760
We have not yet formally engaged the golf course architect.

2809
05:07:52,760 --> 05:07:57,820
I made the wrong career choice when I went to college.

2810
05:07:58,360 --> 05:08:02,780
I should have been majored in agronomy and become a golf course architect.

2811
05:08:03,340 --> 05:08:05,060
They're pretty steep in costs.

2812
05:08:06,820 --> 05:08:10,100
But we've had golf course architects out to the site.

2813
05:08:11,060 --> 05:08:11,960
They looked at it.

2814
05:08:12,440 --> 05:08:17,360
They think that this is a great piece of property and they'd like the surrounding environmental

2815
05:08:17,360 --> 05:08:21,460
because they think that will fit nicely into a uniquely designed,

2816
05:08:21,460 --> 05:08:31,080
high-end private golf course. So I don't have an 18-hole layout to show you today, but we've

2817
05:08:31,080 --> 05:08:37,580
had architects out there and they're excited about the potential for designing something unique

2818
05:08:37,580 --> 05:08:47,180
that they could put their name on and that will be attractive to future members of this golf course.

2819
05:08:48,300 --> 05:08:52,260
I'm going to stop here and if you don't have any questions to me at this point, I'm going

2820
05:08:52,260 --> 05:08:55,920
to ask Alexis to come up and talk a little bit about compatibility with our surroundings.

2821
05:08:57,160 --> 05:09:03,140
And then we'll progress through our various experts to talk about the need for the demand for

2822
05:09:03,140 --> 05:09:11,140
more golf and environmental, environmental comments from Tim, and then Tim Hall, I get two

2823
05:09:11,140 --> 05:09:17,180
to mail the brand to Tim Hall, and then we'll open it up to questions.

2824
05:09:18,080 --> 05:09:18,940
And Rachel, quick question.

2825
05:09:19,120 --> 05:09:20,260
Mr. Hawes, quick question.

2826
05:09:20,420 --> 05:09:22,700
What are your thoughts where the 10 colleges are going to go?

2827
05:09:22,920 --> 05:09:25,880
I don't think that we've laid out exactly where they would be.

2828
05:09:27,060 --> 05:09:29,760
The courses that I've been fortunate to play.

2829
05:09:30,640 --> 05:09:32,500
They usually kind of line up with the entry row,

2830
05:09:32,580 --> 05:09:34,460
but they could be anywhere on the course.

2831
05:09:34,780 --> 05:09:35,380
I wouldn't make sense.

2832
05:09:41,030 --> 05:09:41,590
Thank you.

2833
05:09:41,830 --> 05:09:42,290
Good afternoon.

2834
05:09:42,290 --> 05:09:47,290
My name is Alexis Crespo. I'm the Vice President of Planning with RBI, Planning and

2835
05:09:47,290 --> 05:09:53,750
Lanescape Architecture, it's a pleasure to be here today. My role was to assess the impacts

2836
05:09:53,750 --> 05:10:01,150
of the proposed CFP UD in relation to the RP UD you saw earlier or last year rather.

2837
05:10:01,850 --> 05:10:08,330
So assessing the private golf course, the 10 transient members only, guest cottages in relation

2838
05:10:08,330 --> 05:10:12,010
to the 423 dwelling units, you saw presented in the residential

2839
05:10:12,010 --> 05:10:13,030
planned unit development.

2840
05:10:13,530 --> 05:10:16,410
And across the board, not just in one metric, but in all metrics,

2841
05:10:17,130 --> 05:10:19,490
the proposal before you today is significantly

2842
05:10:19,490 --> 05:10:23,170
reduced impact to the facilities and infrastructure

2843
05:10:23,990 --> 05:10:26,790
of call your county as well as to the surrounding neighborhood.

2844
05:10:27,350 --> 05:10:29,650
We've quantified that a bit free on this slide,

2845
05:10:30,090 --> 05:10:32,350
norms real-cock performed both traffic studies

2846
05:10:32,350 --> 05:10:35,430
for both the RPUD as well as the CFPUD.

2847
05:10:35,430 --> 05:10:42,490
You can see it's an 80% reduction in the PM peak hour trip cap and total daily trips.

2848
05:10:42,890 --> 05:10:49,150
As Rich said, there's an estimate about 57 peak hour trips for the site and that is

2849
05:10:49,150 --> 05:10:50,410
in our opinion over estimates.

2850
05:10:51,030 --> 05:10:56,670
So very, very low traffic producing project really couldn't think of many land uses that

2851
05:10:56,670 --> 05:11:00,210
would generate less trips than what is being proposed for the site.

2852
05:11:00,850 --> 05:11:06,630
Additionally, increased open space, golf courses are inherently lots of green space, lots of

2853
05:11:06,630 --> 05:11:12,810
pervious areas, naturally landscape, so certainly we are increasing on our PewDieMaster

2854
05:11:12,810 --> 05:11:20,450
plan by 10% up to 70% open space total, but at build out the site will be very low intensity

2855
05:11:20,450 --> 05:11:26,070
in terms of any built structures on the site. It would really be limited to the golf course,

2856
05:11:26,070 --> 05:11:30,970
the maintenance area, parking lot, et cetera, as well as the 10 transient cottages.

2857
05:11:32,010 --> 05:11:35,750
Because of our occupancy limitations, because these are not residential dwelling units,

2858
05:11:36,890 --> 05:11:40,910
we will not have any impact on color county parks and wreck facilities.

2859
05:11:41,310 --> 05:11:46,250
We will have no impact on schools, obviously, because there are no dwelling units within the project.

2860
05:11:47,370 --> 05:11:50,130
And then the last item really in terms of neighborhood compatibility.

2861
05:11:50,890 --> 05:11:55,690
As you saw in our master plan, we're abutting preserver areas largely within the Hossandra Lakes

2862
05:11:55,690 --> 05:11:58,010
MPUD to our south and our west.

2863
05:11:58,390 --> 05:12:00,870
We also have preserve lands to our east.

2864
05:12:00,950 --> 05:12:05,630
So we're very well insulated from any residential uses immediately in the area.

2865
05:12:05,750 --> 05:12:09,510
We do have some large lot of states to the north of Saibu Palm.

2866
05:12:10,030 --> 05:12:16,290
And as Rich said, our closest neighbor to the west and Boronawak, they're 2,100 feet away from us.

2867
05:12:16,330 --> 05:12:23,030
So that's almost half a mile of distance intervening preserve areas, as well as, again, a very, very low

2868
05:12:23,030 --> 05:12:27,430
entities on the subject property that will ensure compatibility with our neighborhoods

2869
05:12:27,430 --> 05:12:31,850
with the surrounding neighborhoods when coupled with the proposed uses.

2870
05:12:33,070 --> 05:12:38,190
There's also several commitments within the PUD as well as within the growth management

2871
05:12:38,190 --> 05:12:41,690
plan for additional protections such as dark sky compliant.

2872
05:12:42,230 --> 05:12:44,510
This use will not be active in the nighttime.

2873
05:12:44,970 --> 05:12:50,210
We'll also provide great areas for habitat recreation as you're going to hear from the environmental

2874
05:12:50,210 --> 05:12:50,710
team.

2875
05:12:50,710 --> 05:12:53,190
So with that, I'll turn it over to Tim Hall.

2876
05:13:01,860 --> 05:13:03,960
Good afternoon, commissioners.

2877
05:13:04,720 --> 05:13:08,160
Tim Hall with Terrell Hall and Associates.

2878
05:13:08,980 --> 05:13:10,960
Here talk about some of the environmental changes

2879
05:13:10,960 --> 05:13:14,740
associated with the golf course versus the Orange Grove.

2880
05:13:15,600 --> 05:13:18,260
And it kind of falls into three major categories.

2881
05:13:19,560 --> 05:13:21,980
One has to do with the score of water treatment.

2882
05:13:22,660 --> 05:13:26,880
The golf, the Orange Grove has basically

2883
05:13:26,880 --> 05:13:27,900
uncontrolled pumping.

2884
05:13:27,900 --> 05:13:33,040
pump enough water off of the site to keep the trees dry enough to survive when it gets

2885
05:13:33,040 --> 05:13:38,240
really wet. Whereas the golf course when it comes in will have a controlled

2886
05:13:38,240 --> 05:13:43,620
stormwater outfall system. And what this really does is benefit some of the downstream

2887
05:13:43,620 --> 05:13:48,520
areas where the water is going into it when you pump. You're putting a lot of water into

2888
05:13:48,520 --> 05:13:55,380
a small area in a quick period of time. So that hydrology is regime is not something

2889
05:13:55,380 --> 05:14:02,940
that the plants are really used to and going through the controlled outfall with the spreader

2890
05:14:02,940 --> 05:14:08,780
system and the ability for the water to go out on a more natural pace is more conducive

2891
05:14:08,780 --> 05:14:12,680
to that natural vegetation that's in those preservatives around the development.

2892
05:14:14,260 --> 05:14:22,180
Second has to do with the irrigation and water usage under the autobond system, they take those

2893
05:14:22,180 --> 05:14:27,160
things into account and they look at those by reducing and you'll have other people talking

2894
05:14:27,160 --> 05:14:33,460
about that as well. But reducing turf area, utilizing native vegetation, all these things

2895
05:14:33,460 --> 05:14:37,640
that go into reducing the amount of irrigation that they actually need to keep the course

2896
05:14:37,640 --> 05:14:45,420
playable. And then lastly is that the open space associated with the golf course and those natural

2897
05:14:45,420 --> 05:14:51,320
areas that are incorporated into it can continue to be used by some of the animals that are

2898
05:14:51,320 --> 05:14:56,580
the preserve areas around the project. You'll see this, any of you that have the opportunity

2899
05:14:56,580 --> 05:14:59,460
to go out to some of the golf courses like 20 goals.

2900
05:15:00,000 --> 05:15:27,180
Out east, where the courses is integrated into the lands around it, and the wildlife uses those golf courses for, you know, for foraging, to escape predators and all kinds of things like that. So those uses are are still present and accommodated for under the golf course use. And with that I can turn it over to Mr. Hildebrand.

2901
05:15:35,310 --> 05:15:43,090
Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Tim Hilderbrand and my role really was to assess the golf market here in Calier County.

2902
05:15:44,350 --> 05:15:49,610
According to Florida's Paradise Coast website, which is really the convention visitor bureau.

2903
05:15:50,030 --> 05:15:52,430
Calier County currently has about 90 golf courses.

2904
05:15:53,410 --> 05:15:57,830
So for market analysis, these courses can really be grouped into three distinct categories.

2905
05:15:58,830 --> 05:16:04,550
By far, the largest is what I call a gate of community, which represents about 63 of those properties.

2906
05:16:04,550 --> 05:16:08,910
Here, golf is integrated into a master plan residential community.

2907
05:16:09,670 --> 05:16:11,770
The golf course is generally intended to support

2908
05:16:11,770 --> 05:16:14,190
and enhance residential real estate values,

2909
05:16:14,390 --> 05:16:16,930
rather than operate solely as a stand-alone club.

2910
05:16:18,550 --> 05:16:20,370
The next category is public courses.

2911
05:16:21,390 --> 05:16:22,670
There's currently seven courses.

2912
05:16:22,750 --> 05:16:24,490
That'd be, of course, like lately,

2913
05:16:25,030 --> 05:16:25,570
high-business.

2914
05:16:26,190 --> 05:16:28,950
Those are operated primarily to provide public access

2915
05:16:28,950 --> 05:16:32,150
golf, and, again, access is available without recording

2916
05:16:32,150 --> 05:16:32,710
membership.

2917
05:16:32,710 --> 05:16:39,010
And then the final category is what we're terming high-end private golf clubs, of which there were 10 clubs in Calier County.

2918
05:16:39,790 --> 05:16:43,830
Here golf is primarily the primary purpose of the development.

2919
05:16:44,770 --> 05:16:48,690
Membership access is limited and that depend on owning a residence within the community.

2920
05:16:49,830 --> 05:16:53,950
In the research that I have done, there is approximately 700 members,

2921
05:16:54,690 --> 05:16:59,410
or I should say individuals trying to gain access to membership to one of these clubs.

2922
05:16:59,410 --> 05:17:05,810
So right now, if you look at the marketplace for those 10 clubs, there's approximately 700 people trying to get in.

2923
05:17:06,370 --> 05:17:10,110
The shortest waiting list probably is somewhere around 2 to 3 years.

2924
05:17:11,450 --> 05:17:20,190
The average initiation fee currently for those 10 clubs is approximately 355,000 compared to 187,000, 3 to 4 years ago.

2925
05:17:20,550 --> 05:17:24,250
So you've seen an increase of initiation about 89%.

2926
05:17:24,250 --> 05:17:28,270
If I throw the high and the low out of the number, the average initiation fee right now is

2927
05:17:28,270 --> 05:17:34,730
303,000 compared to 174, 3 to 4 years ago, and increases 74%.

2928
05:17:34,730 --> 05:17:39,090
So in summary, there is a strong demand here for golf.

2929
05:17:39,470 --> 05:17:44,370
There is extended weightiness, and there's significant growth in initiation fees, which

2930
05:17:44,370 --> 05:17:49,930
indicates a substantial undemanned demand for another high end private golf club.

2931
05:17:49,930 --> 05:17:55,760
So at that, I'll turn it over to Tim, or I'll say Alan.

2932
05:18:09,240 --> 05:18:10,520
Good afternoon, commissioners.

2933
05:18:11,720 --> 05:18:12,980
My name is Al Dardi.

2934
05:18:13,420 --> 05:18:16,120
I've lived in South Florida for 46 years.

2935
05:18:17,000 --> 05:18:23,620
I've worked in the real estate development business for 46 years, both in the public and private sector.

2936
05:18:27,900 --> 05:18:35,400
Through those years, I've seen all sides of the road from the technical side of engineering,

2937
05:18:35,400 --> 05:18:40,500
whether it was the firm I had going down to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina doing

2938
05:18:40,500 --> 05:18:47,260
technical engineering work, land planning, architecture, marketing, sales.

2939
05:18:47,460 --> 05:18:50,720
I've covered every aspect of this business from the private sector.

2940
05:18:52,020 --> 05:18:57,860
Land development has been something that's been at the core of a lot of my work.

2941
05:18:59,840 --> 05:19:02,720
My passion has always been sustainable development.

2942
05:19:03,460 --> 05:19:08,760
As an 18-year-old, I came down to Florida, Naples, on Spring Break.

2943
05:19:09,520 --> 05:19:13,940
I came home, I told my mother, as soon as I get out of high school, and a few months

2944
05:19:13,940 --> 05:19:15,340
I'm moving down to South Florida.

2945
05:19:16,460 --> 05:19:22,780
I got here and I was fortunate enough to go to work at WCI communities where I had no idea

2946
05:19:22,780 --> 05:19:30,520
what land development was, but I needed a job, and I ended up working in the 600-acre

2947
05:19:30,520 --> 05:19:37,240
mangrove preserve with some of the finest biologists in the world as we blasted tidal ditches

2948
05:19:37,240 --> 05:19:44,560
and recreated wetlands and remastered water management areas and I became infactuated

2949
05:19:44,560 --> 05:19:51,460
and just completely enamored with why this was actually a good thing that if I put my life's

2950
05:19:51,460 --> 05:19:57,140
work into it it would create great value for the state of Florida and that's been my passion all

2951
05:19:57,140 --> 05:20:03,980
way through. I worked at WCI communities for 21 years. During that time we were building a number

2952
05:20:03,980 --> 05:20:10,120
of golf courses. I'm going to talk about Audubon International at the end because it's part of

2953
05:20:11,100 --> 05:20:16,640
summarizing some of the things that I hope to accomplish in my role in this project.

2954
05:20:18,060 --> 05:20:23,140
So I worked at WCI communities for 21 years. I was involved. I ended up being the vice-president

2955
05:20:23,140 --> 05:20:30,940
development over seeing the development of 15 master plan communities throughout Southwest Florida and some others outside this market in Florida

2956
05:20:31,740 --> 05:20:35,540
From there I had my own firm for for 10 years in real estate

2957
05:20:35,540 --> 05:20:43,520
Development business the downturn at 207 made it a little difficult there so I was very fortunate with the friends

2958
05:20:43,520 --> 05:20:52,940
I had made in the industry that I was able to go and work for Secretary of Hershel vineyard at the Department of Environmental Protection

2959
05:20:53,140 --> 05:20:56,440
My job there was Deputy Secretary of Land.

2960
05:20:56,920 --> 05:21:02,940
My responsibilities there were that overseeing the Division of State Lands.

2961
05:21:03,460 --> 05:21:09,140
I was the chair of the Florida Forever Program where the State would buy conservation land.

2962
05:21:09,800 --> 05:21:17,440
The State group that worked with me also oversaw about 80,000 acres a year in controlled burns

2963
05:21:17,440 --> 05:21:25,800
maintenance of state owned lands was also over the department of parks. We had 171 parks

2964
05:21:25,800 --> 05:21:33,440
at that time at a staff of biologists. My learning curve through that process was something

2965
05:21:33,440 --> 05:21:39,760
I'll never forget. I mean that in the most positive way. The other thing that I did at the

2966
05:21:39,760 --> 05:21:45,740
DEP I was the liaison between the governor's office and the cabinet members for the board of

2967
05:21:47,600 --> 05:21:53,840
I worked with all the cabinet members in the Governor's office, their staffs, their consultants, etc.

2968
05:21:55,260 --> 05:21:58,320
On the issues that were facing the Board of Trustees on a monthly basis.

2969
05:21:59,740 --> 05:22:07,000
From there I met Sid Kitsen and I went to work for Kitsen and Partners, which I just retired in December of 25.

2970
05:22:07,900 --> 05:22:10,120
It was there for 14 years.

2971
05:22:10,120 --> 05:22:17,140
The last five years I was said to Chief Operating Officer, I was at Babcock Ranch the

2972
05:22:17,140 --> 05:22:22,920
day we broke around and in a few short years we created a sustainable city with a population

2973
05:22:22,920 --> 05:22:25,500
of about 15,000 people.

2974
05:22:26,140 --> 05:22:29,960
one of the incredible things that I had, the great pleasure of working with.

2975
05:22:30,000 --> 05:22:37,260
Working with SID and at Babcock was a gave me an opportunity to expand my passion for sustainable development.

2976
05:22:39,440 --> 05:22:44,840
SID would always sit down and say, how we can't be afraid to make a mistake because that's how other people learn.

2977
05:22:45,920 --> 05:22:49,680
So we had a lot of success. We made some mistakes. We learned from the mistakes.

2978
05:22:50,300 --> 05:22:56,260
And we're open to talking to people about it because we want the model of Babcock Ranch sustainability.

2979
05:22:57,520 --> 05:23:03,620
to be something that people across the United States, not just our local market can learn from.

2980
05:23:04,980 --> 05:23:09,060
So it was a tremendous experience.

2981
05:23:09,260 --> 05:23:15,740
One of the things I also took out a Babcock because there is 6 million square feet of commercial.

2982
05:23:15,960 --> 05:23:21,380
It's not finished yet, but sustainability is not just taking a piece of land.

2983
05:23:21,380 --> 05:23:25,440
that's already in a state where it could be preserved.

2984
05:23:26,580 --> 05:23:31,460
It's working with complex land development programs

2985
05:23:31,460 --> 05:23:36,000
that create a place to live, work and play for a population,

2986
05:23:36,800 --> 05:23:39,660
making that sustainable is an art unto itself.

2987
05:23:40,440 --> 05:23:42,360
Anyway, enough of my background.

2988
05:23:44,240 --> 05:23:46,120
On this project in particular,

2989
05:23:47,920 --> 05:23:48,600
autobunternational,

2990
05:23:48,600 --> 05:23:55,820
I had the great fortune of doing 12 autobond gold courses with autobond international.

2991
05:23:57,000 --> 05:24:04,280
When we started I met Ron Dotson who at the time was the founder and the CEO of autobond

2992
05:24:04,280 --> 05:24:04,900
international.

2993
05:24:06,820 --> 05:24:08,440
We had so much work over the years.

2994
05:24:08,640 --> 05:24:13,280
Ron and I became great friends and I learned an awful lot from Ron.

2995
05:24:14,940 --> 05:24:18,080
Probably the most important thing was he said,

2996
05:24:19,420 --> 05:24:25,860
you have to get the plan right right from the beginning.

2997
05:24:25,960 --> 05:24:27,180
And I know that sounds obvious.

2998
05:24:27,880 --> 05:24:30,580
Start right, you can't finish right.

2999
05:24:31,160 --> 05:24:37,400
And I knew this philosophy from the master plan community work I was doing,

3000
05:24:37,620 --> 05:24:40,020
but to talk about it in the sense of sustainability,

3001
05:24:41,120 --> 05:24:42,880
it made even more sense why.

3002
05:24:42,880 --> 05:24:50,620
Because in the 90s, when sustainability started to become something that everybody was catching

3003
05:24:50,620 --> 05:24:58,240
on to, the trouble that it had at that point was the economics were difficult, materials

3004
05:24:58,240 --> 05:25:02,840
were difficult, they were expensive, recycled carpet if you're doing a building, the principles

3005
05:25:02,840 --> 05:25:09,080
of sustainability, the water management systems, people sort of poo-hooed the beginning of it,

3006
05:25:09,100 --> 05:25:11,520
which was a shame because of the cost.

3007
05:25:11,520 --> 05:25:18,020
So I'd always hoped to overcome the cost issue and prove that sustainability can make economic

3008
05:25:18,020 --> 05:25:21,980
sense because the more that happens, the more people are going to pick up and do sustainable

3009
05:25:21,980 --> 05:25:22,540
projects.

3010
05:25:23,020 --> 05:25:25,680
We were able to do that at Babcock Ranch.

3011
05:25:27,320 --> 05:25:30,320
So when I was learning from Ron, start right.

3012
05:25:30,520 --> 05:25:37,640
So on this project, our goal is to sit down from the very beginning with the Audubant team

3013
05:25:37,640 --> 05:25:45,340
and are complete team of professionals, the owner, and lay out this program as many times

3014
05:25:45,340 --> 05:25:47,800
as it takes to get the right plan.

3015
05:25:48,380 --> 05:25:57,000
To get the right plan to treat the water right, reduce water quality to get to have less

3016
05:25:57,000 --> 05:25:58,900
turf, less fertilizer.

3017
05:26:00,860 --> 05:26:06,420
One of the biggest opportunities we have here on this project because we're not building a bunch

3018
05:26:06,420 --> 05:26:12,780
homes in and around the golf course is in the layout. As Rich mentioned, there's a couple

3019
05:26:12,780 --> 05:26:17,740
of preserves that we're keeping on the property. But if you look at the perimeter of the property,

3020
05:26:18,780 --> 05:26:27,760
there's some great vegetation, natural vegetation, is to pull that into the project. I call it the zipper.

3021
05:26:28,100 --> 05:26:33,520
The zipper is the edge of the conservation area with the development project that you're doing.

3022
05:26:33,520 --> 05:26:43,020
And, instead of going along the edge of the golf course between the edge of the golf course and the surrounding conservation area,

3023
05:26:43,680 --> 05:26:51,500
and I jokingly say this and going to Lowes Garden Center and buying 53 varieties of pretty plants,

3024
05:26:52,280 --> 05:26:59,620
the idea here is very simple, create what mother nature has already given us and enhance it and make it better.

3025
05:26:59,620 --> 05:27:05,660
There's so many things you can do that are meaningful in terms of recreating the habitat.

3026
05:27:06,420 --> 05:27:08,980
For example, I'm a tremendous advocate.

3027
05:27:09,380 --> 05:27:13,900
I've planted 100,000 small pine trees at Babcock Ranch.

3028
05:27:14,580 --> 05:27:18,920
When people saw that, they kind of laughed in the beginning because a lot of them were that big.

3029
05:27:19,440 --> 05:27:22,640
Well, three years down the road, there are six, eight feet tall.

3030
05:27:22,640 --> 05:27:35,420
And you can reforist areas using minimal species of landscaping, small landscaping, and high-numbers, pine trees, wax murdals, palm meadows,

3031
05:27:35,920 --> 05:27:38,360
stable palms and oaks, native grasses.

3032
05:27:38,980 --> 05:27:39,980
Very simple palette.

3033
05:27:40,100 --> 05:27:41,940
That's what Mother Nature gave us.

3034
05:27:42,000 --> 05:27:45,060
Let's utilize what Mother Nature gave us and bring us in.

3035
05:27:45,500 --> 05:27:49,300
The project also has a benefit in terms of a fire break.

3036
05:27:53,340 --> 05:28:01,160
I won't mention the name of the project, but one comes to mind that gave me an incredible amount

3037
05:28:01,160 --> 05:28:07,980
of confidence that we could do a lot of good through redevelopment with sensitive areas.

3038
05:28:07,980 --> 05:28:14,500
There was a project we did, I will say it was at WCI, where we had its surrounding communities.

3039
05:28:14,500 --> 05:28:21,220
the all the runoff before we started our project was going down to one of the

3040
05:28:21,220 --> 05:28:25,120
estuaries. So it was creating a water quality problem.

3041
05:28:27,440 --> 05:28:28,600
Through the design of the

3042
05:28:28,600 --> 05:28:32,000
course, through the water management, the use of the total plantings and a whole

3043
05:28:32,000 --> 05:28:36,580
host of other sustainable practices, working with autobond international, we

3044
05:28:36,580 --> 05:28:43,660
committed to a program that would improve the water quality greatly and we

3045
05:28:43,660 --> 05:28:49,000
achieve. Great results with that. I'm very, very, very confident that in this project,

3046
05:28:49,180 --> 05:28:54,760
we can achieve great environmental goals, take a piece of property that's already been

3047
05:28:54,760 --> 05:29:00,720
been cleared. We're not clearing the, proposing to clear the preserve areas. Again, another

3048
05:29:00,720 --> 05:29:06,780
thing we did at Bapcock, we used areas that were already cleared. This is sustainable. Our

3049
05:29:06,780 --> 05:29:12,060
goal, as we finish this project, is to create an example of what sustainable redevelopment

3050
05:29:12,060 --> 05:29:18,140
can be. And I have no doubt in my mind that we can accomplish that on this project and look

3051
05:29:18,140 --> 05:29:20,960
forward to being a part of it. Thank you.

3052
05:29:31,440 --> 05:29:37,380
So in conclusion, both your staff and the Planning Commission recommended approval of both

3053
05:29:37,380 --> 05:29:48,100
growth management and the proposed PD. I think it's clear that this golf course is low

3054
05:29:48,100 --> 05:29:55,100
intensity is environmentally friendly and it's going to maintain the character that's in the immediate area.

3055
05:29:56,700 --> 05:29:59,680
We're preserving substantial open space.

3056
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:14,100
Preserving, basically, all of the native education that exists on the site. Today, we're consistent with the golf course standards, and the role friends to make sure you use district land use category in your comprehensive plan in your land development code.

3057
05:30:15,300 --> 05:30:28,480
As Al, elaborated, we, the Audubon international signature sanctuary certification, gold level is an environmentally friendly standard, and it's your standard.

3058
05:30:28,480 --> 05:30:37,560
It has a minimum impact less than 1% on cardiovascular work, and it's consistent with the gross

3059
05:30:37,560 --> 05:30:37,860
method.

3060
05:30:38,000 --> 05:30:43,580
Once we have this amendment, it'd be consistent with the gross management plan and land development

3061
05:30:43,580 --> 05:30:44,080
code.

3062
05:30:46,830 --> 05:30:53,930
With that, that's our presentation about our proposed golf course with the additional commitments

3063
05:30:53,930 --> 05:31:00,350
that we've made with regard to the culverts under stable palm road, as well as the system

3064
05:31:00,350 --> 05:31:06,850
with the project that I can't remember the name of the member.

3065
05:31:07,490 --> 05:31:07,810
Yeah.

3066
05:31:08,970 --> 05:31:09,550
You see.

3067
05:31:10,430 --> 05:31:12,770
We'll remember when it comes time, yeah.

3068
05:31:13,350 --> 05:31:13,510
Thank you.

3069
05:31:13,810 --> 05:31:14,350
The guest there.

3070
05:31:14,450 --> 05:31:15,350
Chamber and dough.

3071
05:31:15,690 --> 05:31:19,490
We'll assist with that project as well.

3072
05:31:20,450 --> 05:31:25,950
So there are environmental benefits to reducing, as well as the air is in benefit to the community

3073
05:31:25,950 --> 05:31:29,790
through these additional commitments to assist with water management in the area.

3074
05:31:30,630 --> 05:31:37,990
But that where the team is here can answer any questions you may have with regard to the proposed golf course.

3075
05:31:38,390 --> 05:31:41,130
And if I haven't made it clear, it's just golf course.

3076
05:31:41,670 --> 05:31:42,690
We have no intentions.

3077
05:31:43,390 --> 05:31:44,450
We're doing a residential development.

3078
05:31:45,030 --> 05:31:47,650
And we're not trying to be a live local project.

3079
05:31:47,970 --> 05:31:51,450
And we're not bringing a commercial to a residential area.

3080
05:31:52,090 --> 05:31:52,930
Mr. Sawyer.

3081
05:31:52,930 --> 05:32:05,070
Just a couple of quick questions, and you may already have this in there and I apologize if I just didn't catch it. How many members are we are we are anticipating somewhere between 275 and 325?

3082
05:32:07,720 --> 05:32:09,520
Well, let's just say it's around 300.

3083
05:32:10,820 --> 05:32:14,460
I always like to ask them a little higher, but

3084
05:32:14,460 --> 05:32:16,460
And I think you'll find it.

3085
05:32:16,460 --> 05:32:17,960
Of course, it's like this.

3086
05:32:18,660 --> 05:32:21,240
That's not a lot of members. You can basically walk on to play.

3087
05:32:21,240 --> 05:32:28,300
And then in terms of what could be built there today, in terms of residential units, how many units?

3088
05:32:28,920 --> 05:32:29,940
I guess it's a one unit per 20.

3089
05:32:30,260 --> 05:32:33,040
It's actually because it's used to be one per five.

3090
05:32:33,460 --> 05:32:36,180
And then the Royal French Miss used to just move it to one per 40.

3091
05:32:36,400 --> 05:32:37,060
One per 40.

3092
05:32:37,260 --> 05:32:38,860
That would be four.

3093
05:32:39,040 --> 05:32:39,820
I'd be four.

3094
05:32:39,860 --> 05:32:40,740
With big yards.

3095
05:32:41,880 --> 05:32:42,680
Two yards.

3096
05:32:42,880 --> 05:32:44,200
Huge yards with.

3097
05:32:44,440 --> 05:32:46,160
And then questioned for the county attorney.

3098
05:32:47,700 --> 05:32:53,360
There was an indication that there may be a willingness to put a deed restriction or something

3099
05:32:53,360 --> 05:32:56,740
in to prohibit the use of live local.

3100
05:32:57,820 --> 05:33:03,800
Is that something that we can legally do, is that that be binding on a future buyer or

3101
05:33:03,800 --> 05:33:06,140
the property or a future potential use?

3102
05:33:07,340 --> 05:33:10,040
Well, if you have a book and consense to it, yes.

3103
05:33:10,380 --> 05:33:14,520
Would you want to eliminate the issue entirely, just agree with the residential portion?

3104
05:33:16,680 --> 05:33:19,620
It was just golf course they couldn't live in the right place.

3105
05:33:20,620 --> 05:33:21,280
That makes sense.

3106
05:33:21,680 --> 05:33:23,120
That's all I just had a couple of questions.

3107
05:33:24,820 --> 05:33:25,460
Mr. Castro.

3108
05:33:26,200 --> 05:33:26,600
Thank you, Chairman.

3109
05:33:27,140 --> 05:33:29,400
I have some questions, but I'd like them to be answered by staff.

3110
05:33:29,680 --> 05:33:30,300
Not by the applicant.

3111
05:33:30,580 --> 05:33:32,620
So if Mr. Bozzy, if you could come forward, please.

3112
05:33:34,300 --> 05:33:36,160
And ask one quick question while he's still there.

3113
05:33:36,420 --> 05:33:39,000
And Mr. Cook, if I ask a conservation car,

3114
05:33:39,120 --> 05:33:41,400
or question, and you think you have a better answer than Mr. Bozzy,

3115
05:33:41,400 --> 05:33:45,240
then maybe beyond that if you want to thank you.

3116
05:33:45,300 --> 05:33:47,100
Thank you.

3117
05:33:47,100 --> 05:33:51,180
As far as the housing goes,

3118
05:33:52,200 --> 05:33:53,560
correct, good answer.

3119
05:33:54,380 --> 05:33:56,960
As far as the housing goes,

3120
05:33:57,260 --> 05:34:00,760
you can voluntarily stipulate to the deed restriction,

3121
05:34:01,200 --> 05:34:06,400
but would a deed restriction disallow any increase in

3122
05:34:06,400 --> 05:34:11,320
to do the same thing. Mr. Clouds go.

3123
05:34:11,740 --> 05:34:12,540
It gives you a reason.

3124
05:34:13,100 --> 05:34:14,180
Okay. He was a paying attention.

3125
05:34:14,480 --> 05:34:16,200
proceed. I'll ask my question again.

3126
05:34:16,240 --> 05:34:18,120
I'll ask you one question before you leave.

3127
05:34:18,260 --> 05:34:21,800
So on the ten cottages, if that was something that.

3128
05:34:21,940 --> 05:34:24,100
And I know you don't have blue prints on the golf course,

3129
05:34:24,260 --> 05:34:28,480
but the oven idea, any idea what kind of footprint that would eat up on the total acreage.

3130
05:34:28,760 --> 05:34:31,700
We're talking about basically a four bedroom residence.

3131
05:34:32,140 --> 05:34:33,440
Yeah, but ten of them.

3132
05:34:33,660 --> 05:34:34,100
Ten, yes.

3133
05:34:34,100 --> 05:34:39,780
But we haven't laid, we're not even sure we're gonna do the cottages.

3134
05:34:39,920 --> 05:34:41,100
Neither am I.

3135
05:34:41,620 --> 05:34:41,980
Okay.

3136
05:34:42,840 --> 05:34:43,880
Let me ask Mr. Bozzi.

3137
05:34:44,200 --> 05:34:45,080
So we'll get back to you.

3138
05:34:45,220 --> 05:34:45,540
Yeah.

3139
05:34:45,740 --> 05:34:47,180
I don't mean to be a physician.

3140
05:34:47,920 --> 05:34:48,740
And I wasn't here.

3141
05:34:48,940 --> 05:34:53,240
I mean, there are a lot of these golf courses have one, two, five.

3142
05:34:53,900 --> 05:34:56,160
Because their members come and they can stay there.

3143
05:34:56,160 --> 05:34:56,640
Absolutely.

3144
05:34:57,660 --> 05:35:01,100
I guess I don't want to jump ahead, but the reason I asked that is

3145
05:35:02,960 --> 05:35:07,620
Hypothetically, if we were trying to maximize as much green space as possible as much wild

3146
05:35:07,620 --> 05:35:12,280
life area as possible, if you take a look at whatever the footprint is for 10, 4 bedroom

3147
05:35:12,280 --> 05:35:17,080
cottages and the driveways and the golf course, car pads and whatnot, and let's just

3148
05:35:17,080 --> 05:35:19,000
say, for argument, all that stuff disappeared.

3149
05:35:19,360 --> 05:35:25,360
Number one, it helps us much, it basically makes live local go away, so that's one thing,

3150
05:35:25,600 --> 05:35:30,440
but it also opens up a more green space and acreage that what you truly do have is a golf

3151
05:35:30,440 --> 05:36:00,420
course, that is fully green. And as the sun goes down, all the golfers have to leave. And so, you know, I mean, I, like I said, I don't want to jump, but maybe, maybe it's something for you to just think about, if we have people that are living on the golf course, I mean, I live on Marco Island and one of the big issues is lights at night that affect the turtles. We don't have turtles out there. But if you had a bunch of people in these 10 cottages, all spent in the night, I'm sure they're not going to be locked in their room with black shades closed and they're all going to be sleeping at 830 at night. So, you know, you know, they're all going to be sleeping at 830 at night.

3152
05:36:00,420 --> 05:36:04,720
So there's going to be people out there enjoying the golf course, and I'm just wondering

3153
05:36:04,720 --> 05:36:05,600
how that all affects.

3154
05:36:05,700 --> 05:36:11,120
So that might be something for the environmentalists that you on that, how would that affect

3155
05:36:11,120 --> 05:36:11,480
things?

3156
05:36:11,640 --> 05:36:18,440
I mean, I really want to dissect the different pieces and some of them might not be overwhelming

3157
05:36:18,440 --> 05:36:24,900
really positive if we take it away or put it, but it all sort of adds up, so we'll get back

3158
05:36:24,900 --> 05:36:25,060
to that.

3159
05:36:25,700 --> 05:36:27,540
But I want to ask Mr. Bozi some things.

3160
05:36:27,540 --> 05:36:34,980
So Mr. Rosie, we all got quite a few emails from a lot of citizens, a lot of them, the exact same email, which is fine.

3161
05:36:35,600 --> 05:36:38,640
I've said before, I appreciate any kind of citizen input.

3162
05:36:39,240 --> 05:36:43,540
But I sort of cobbled together five or six questions that pretty much everybody had.

3163
05:36:44,960 --> 05:36:49,380
You and Ms. Cook answered some of them for me, but they need to be answered in this forum.

3164
05:36:49,460 --> 05:36:54,660
It might actually help citizens who are going to come up to the podium that might ask this exact question

3165
05:36:54,660 --> 05:37:00,320
or make this exact statement, it might change what they say or not, based on what you said.

3166
05:37:01,360 --> 05:37:05,760
So, you know, one of the big questions from the vast majority of people, it says, you know,

3167
05:37:05,880 --> 05:37:10,840
that they oppose the Sable Palm Golf Course Subjust District, and that asks that we vote

3168
05:37:10,840 --> 05:37:17,020
no on the request to remove the Sable Palm parcel from the rural fringe mixed-used district

3169
05:37:17,020 --> 05:37:20,320
to allow our private course, yada, yada, yada, kind of thing.

3170
05:37:20,340 --> 05:37:22,520
So that's the statement, you know, no question in there.

3171
05:37:22,520 --> 05:37:29,980
My question is, by doing that, and I sort of asked this earlier when we were talking about a different issue.

3172
05:37:30,000 --> 05:37:40,180
And changing the growth management plan. How big of a heavy left is that by removing that from the RFMUD, as we say,

3173
05:37:40,620 --> 05:37:47,840
what would you say in your assessment and as more, you know, for the crowd, is that, would you consider that a pretty big muscle movement?

3174
05:37:48,480 --> 05:37:55,920
Mike Bozzi, planning and zoning director, and as the board stated earlier, any time that you

3175
05:37:55,920 --> 05:38:01,360
amend the growth management plan, it is an elevated, it's one of the highest burdens

3176
05:38:01,360 --> 05:38:05,940
that you can cross in terms of modifications to local regulations.

3177
05:38:06,720 --> 05:38:12,240
So it is a significant change in relationship to the rural fringe mixed yeast district.

3178
05:38:12,240 --> 05:38:20,680
It's over 65,000 acres in total, so in retrospect, in terms of the 169 acres, in that regard,

3179
05:38:21,360 --> 05:38:26,820
it's a small percentage of the overall of the overall acreage associated with it.

3180
05:38:27,380 --> 05:38:29,600
But it is a growth management plan, a amendment.

3181
05:38:29,920 --> 05:38:36,780
What I would say is this proposal compared to going to the residential of 423,

3182
05:38:36,780 --> 05:38:41,380
is golf course zoning is within your open space,

3183
05:38:41,380 --> 05:38:43,220
within your open space zoning districts.

3184
05:38:43,760 --> 05:38:47,860
So this is a, this is a, a use set is in line with that,

3185
05:38:47,880 --> 05:38:51,200
in line with the World Friends McEuse District of being

3186
05:38:51,200 --> 05:38:55,140
in open space and being part of the, the, the,

3187
05:38:55,240 --> 05:38:57,460
the setting area which really wants to promote

3188
05:38:57,460 --> 05:39:01,240
low density and provide for wildlife corridors.

3189
05:39:01,600 --> 05:39:05,840
This is an alignment with the overall purpose of what the,

3190
05:39:05,840 --> 05:39:12,960
of what the rural French McHugh's district sending area is providing for.

3191
05:39:13,940 --> 05:39:19,960
So in that regard, any time you amend the growth management plan, it is a high bar, but

3192
05:39:19,960 --> 05:39:32,040
in terms of what's being proposed in relationship to what it's replacing, it is both of open

3193
05:39:32,040 --> 05:39:40,000
a lot of pervious surfaces for what a recharge and for when that in that respect I think

3194
05:39:40,000 --> 05:39:44,540
it is a much better proposal than what the alternative was when they had originally proposed

3195
05:39:44,540 --> 05:39:44,820
to you.

3196
05:39:45,480 --> 05:39:49,340
I don't want to put words in your mouth but compared to other times when we where this has

3197
05:39:49,340 --> 05:39:57,480
come up this is you would say is a closer match to and a little bit of a lighter jump than

3198
05:39:57,480 --> 05:40:01,940
in some other times where this question you know this request has come up and it was a huge

3199
05:40:01,940 --> 05:40:08,860
lead. I would agree that it's in better alignment with with with with with the direction that the

3200
05:40:09,280 --> 05:40:14,820
the this the sitting area provide. Okay. This was on a lot of eleven notes a big a bold statement.

3201
05:40:15,040 --> 05:40:21,700
It might not be something maybe it's something that we we Jamie Cook answers, but it says the entire

3202
05:40:21,700 --> 05:40:30,200
project site is 100 percent primary zone Florida Panther habitat and 100 percent adult breeding habitat.

3203
05:40:30,200 --> 05:40:36,480
One of the things we've said in this room before here when sometimes speakers an even environmental

3204
05:40:36,480 --> 05:40:43,620
experts come to the podium and they say this is an environmental habitat and this is a preserve

3205
05:40:43,620 --> 05:40:49,840
wilderness or whatnot. Sometimes we've had experts come up and say you've got to be careful

3206
05:40:49,840 --> 05:40:56,380
throwing those terms around because an actual panther preserve it's usually designated officially

3207
05:40:56,380 --> 05:41:02,080
And you know it has it has a more official connotation just because a panther walked across

3208
05:41:02,080 --> 05:41:07,580
a field doesn't mean it's a panther preserve but having said that the specificity that came

3209
05:41:07,580 --> 05:41:13,120
to all of us by a lot of folks and some folks that you know this is what they do for a living

3210
05:41:13,120 --> 05:41:22,420
said the entire project site is 100% primary zone flared up panther habitat and 100% adult breeding

3211
05:41:22,420 --> 05:41:27,720
ground habitat, adult breeding habitat, what significant documented panther climate

3212
05:41:27,720 --> 05:41:33,280
tree on site. Is that something we can confirm? I'm a 100%. I don't think anything that

3213
05:41:33,280 --> 05:41:40,460
just has grass and trees on it is a 100% primary zone panther habitat. So is that something

3214
05:41:40,460 --> 05:41:45,360
Jamie maybe you can separate remember from fact or at least define that for us?

3215
05:41:45,640 --> 05:41:49,640
Sure. Good afternoon, commissioners. Jamie Cook, your director of development review for the

3216
05:41:49,640 --> 05:41:57,520
So, the property is in the primary panther habitat zone, which is areas that are designated

3217
05:41:57,520 --> 05:42:05,580
predominantly for panther-dening, feeding, hunting grounds, but especially the denning.

3218
05:42:06,960 --> 05:42:11,980
Panthers don't typically den in orange groves that they're in the wetland habitats.

3219
05:42:12,740 --> 05:42:18,980
So, while this is within the zone, the primary zone, it's not what they would typically utilize

3220
05:42:18,980 --> 05:42:22,440
for dending, for cubs, juveniles, and things like that.

3221
05:42:23,840 --> 05:42:26,700
With your professional opinion of running conservation

3222
05:42:26,700 --> 05:42:29,000
and call your forests, if that property

3223
05:42:29,000 --> 05:42:31,600
trans, then like you said, maybe the orange grove isn't

3224
05:42:31,600 --> 05:42:35,160
perfect habitat, but if it transition from an orange grove

3225
05:42:35,700 --> 05:42:38,740
to the scoff course that's been described, do you think

3226
05:42:38,740 --> 05:42:41,400
that the habitat would be more favorable?

3227
05:42:41,940 --> 05:42:43,780
You know, it's a panthers if it was designed correctly,

3228
05:42:44,040 --> 05:42:45,800
because we know that with the orange grove is,

3229
05:42:45,820 --> 05:42:48,400
and the orange grove owner isn't going to modify

3230
05:42:48,400 --> 05:42:54,480
there aren't the orange Grove to make it more panther friendly. Could the golf course have

3231
05:42:55,940 --> 05:43:03,080
architectural features to it that would make it even more attractive to, you know, in your opinion?

3232
05:43:03,260 --> 05:43:08,880
I mean, absolutely. This, this parcel is going to predominantly be used for panther migration

3233
05:43:08,880 --> 05:43:15,420
and movement through the area. When you look at the habitat zones, it's done on a large scale basis.

3234
05:43:15,420 --> 05:43:22,280
it's not done a lot by lot, so they're not going zooming in and looking at each individual

3235
05:43:22,280 --> 05:43:27,720
a lot when they establish the primary and secondary habitat. They're looking at it on a large

3236
05:43:27,720 --> 05:43:34,160
scale landscape level basis. So the panthers, whether this is an orange grover or golf course,

3237
05:43:34,340 --> 05:43:40,200
are still going to be able to traverse the property and get potentially from the OSE and decide

3238
05:43:40,200 --> 05:43:42,680
to the Piquillian side and vice versa.

3239
05:43:43,940 --> 05:43:49,360
You're knowing that that map, that aerial very well and all the properties that have

3240
05:43:49,360 --> 05:43:53,980
environmental significance and this one obviously does, you know, another question here was,

3241
05:43:54,040 --> 05:43:59,420
this parcel is surrounded by permanent conservation on all sides, making intensification

3242
05:43:59,420 --> 05:44:01,760
to a golf course development incompatible.

3243
05:44:02,380 --> 05:44:08,120
So when I got that from quite a few citizens when we all did, my first thought, but I want

3244
05:44:08,120 --> 05:44:14,820
to confirm or deny this. I'm not sure it's surrounded on all sides, but maybe it is.

3245
05:44:15,080 --> 05:44:19,620
But I also know having worked closely with you on Conservation Collier and also Ms. Cook

3246
05:44:19,620 --> 05:44:24,200
was in all the meetings that we had with people who thought they were going to buy the property,

3247
05:44:24,400 --> 05:44:28,160
had a better idea, all the environmental groups that came in and were trying to shake the trees

3248
05:44:28,160 --> 05:44:33,720
for donors and whatnot. So you've been with me on this one since day one. But hearing that,

3249
05:44:33,720 --> 05:44:37,160
the parcels surrounded by permanent conservation on all sides.

3250
05:44:37,760 --> 05:44:40,120
So the inference there is that,

3251
05:44:40,120 --> 05:44:41,700
wow, you have this choice piece of property

3252
05:44:41,700 --> 05:44:46,280
that all around it is this highly coveted conservation

3253
05:44:46,280 --> 05:44:47,880
on every single side.

3254
05:44:48,160 --> 05:44:50,020
Is that how you would classify it?

3255
05:44:50,440 --> 05:44:53,940
So on, I believe it was Alexis that had stayed

3256
05:44:53,940 --> 05:44:57,020
at this earlier to the West and South

3257
05:44:57,020 --> 05:44:59,860
are conservation easements owned by Asyanda Lakes.

3258
05:44:59,860 --> 05:44:59,980
Thank you.

3259
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:11,920
Secondary private conservation easings. So, the east is picky, unstrand state forest. So, yes, the surrounding lands are conserved.

3260
05:45:12,840 --> 05:45:16,900
And this is just the postage stamp sort of right in the middle sort of correct? Yeah.

3261
05:45:17,300 --> 05:45:20,680
Okay. All right. Yeah. And then let's see.

3262
05:45:20,680 --> 05:45:21,140
to the north.

3263
05:45:21,560 --> 05:45:22,180
Sending light.

3264
05:45:22,320 --> 05:45:23,060
Here's another question.

3265
05:45:23,400 --> 05:45:24,480
And is by from Mr. Bozi.

3266
05:45:24,800 --> 05:45:27,280
Sending lands undermines the entire transfer

3267
05:45:27,280 --> 05:45:31,440
of development rights, TDRs, framework across the county.

3268
05:45:31,700 --> 05:45:33,480
What's your comment to that, Mr. Bozi?

3269
05:45:35,400 --> 05:45:37,860
Sending the rural French McChief District,

3270
05:45:37,940 --> 05:45:41,340
sending lands are the area that you send your development

3271
05:45:41,340 --> 05:45:42,780
away from.

3272
05:45:43,360 --> 05:45:46,740
So I don't think it undermines it's one of the basis

3273
05:45:46,740 --> 05:45:48,560
for the rural French McChief District.

3274
05:45:48,560 --> 05:45:51,540
It's identifying the more environmentally sensitive areas

3275
05:45:51,540 --> 05:45:54,740
and to send development, take development rates

3276
05:45:54,740 --> 05:45:58,160
from those areas in place, in the receiving areas,

3277
05:45:59,000 --> 05:46:00,340
which are deemed, have been deemed

3278
05:46:00,340 --> 05:46:02,700
to be less environmentally sensitive, more appropriate

3279
05:46:02,700 --> 05:46:03,960
for development.

3280
05:46:05,000 --> 05:46:08,380
It's one of the basic components of a world-fringe,

3281
05:46:08,900 --> 05:46:12,120
or a transfer of development rates program.

3282
05:46:13,060 --> 05:46:15,720
You can't have a TDR program without any lens.

3283
05:46:16,120 --> 05:46:18,280
So it's essential to a TDR program.

3284
05:46:18,280 --> 05:46:20,080
it's essential to the world for each mixed use.

3285
05:46:20,480 --> 05:46:23,240
And having said that, the conversation that has happened up

3286
05:46:23,240 --> 05:46:24,880
until this point, even out of first meeting

3287
05:46:24,880 --> 05:46:27,560
at the Planning Commission meeting is, I may not,

3288
05:46:27,720 --> 05:46:30,220
I'll guess I'll simplify it, is that these lands

3289
05:46:30,220 --> 05:46:32,880
were never characterized correctly.

3290
05:46:33,500 --> 05:46:34,900
You know, what's your comment to that?

3291
05:46:35,140 --> 05:46:36,480
You know, I know, I'm sorry.

3292
05:46:37,340 --> 05:46:39,820
And sorry, I didn't mean to admit to speak over you.

3293
05:46:40,040 --> 05:46:44,380
I think what Ms. Cook said was the landscape scale

3294
05:46:44,380 --> 05:46:47,860
of how they assessed the original 77,000 acres

3295
05:46:47,860 --> 05:46:55,240
of rural French mixed use. District was not partial, but it was mild quadrant, but mild quadrant.

3296
05:46:56,120 --> 05:47:05,100
So this 169 acres was evaluated based upon the surrounding properties, and those surrounding

3297
05:47:05,100 --> 05:47:09,040
properties did have environmental sensitivity qualities that would suggest that

3298
05:47:09,040 --> 05:47:14,880
Sinyland was appropriate. I think at the time, if the owner had petitioned the Board of

3299
05:47:14,880 --> 05:47:16,340
and commissions within the first year

3300
05:47:16,340 --> 05:47:17,540
that the real infringement she's just

3301
05:47:17,540 --> 05:47:21,800
who was established, and it was a process

3302
05:47:21,800 --> 05:47:24,860
that was identified to ask out of it

3303
05:47:24,860 --> 05:47:28,960
that because it was utilized as a citrus farm,

3304
05:47:29,920 --> 05:47:31,880
they could say that there's no native vegetation

3305
05:47:31,880 --> 05:47:33,560
on this property for the most part.

3306
05:47:34,040 --> 05:47:37,160
It's a working farm is not environmentally sensitive.

3307
05:47:37,160 --> 05:47:39,700
It may be surrounded by environmentally sensitive lands.

3308
05:47:40,100 --> 05:47:43,100
So I think that they would have the probability

3309
05:47:43,100 --> 05:47:48,120
of having this parcel taken out of the rural French mixed use district would have been high

3310
05:47:48,120 --> 05:47:53,640
at the time because it was a working farm and a working farm is not considered environmentally sensitive.

3311
05:47:54,180 --> 05:47:57,100
Okay, and then this is more of a combination of just a lot of different questions,

3312
05:47:57,260 --> 05:48:01,160
but people were really concerned about hydrology and fire management,

3313
05:48:01,620 --> 05:48:07,140
you know, I just sort of summarize here the parcel sits in an area that borders the Peking

3314
05:48:07,140 --> 05:48:12,460
and Strand State Forest intensive turf management and lodging conflict directly with watershed

3315
05:48:12,460 --> 05:48:19,260
rehydration and state mandated prescribed burn operations. What would be your comment to that?

3316
05:48:21,380 --> 05:48:41,000
Is this parcel of that sensitive to different? And we'll hear from the applicant a little bit more in hydrology and water drainage and all of that. But between that and fire management, we got a lot of notes from citizens that were concerned about controlled burns. And if this was a golf course, you know, the kind of things that would happen and how it affect the community.

3317
05:48:41,000 --> 05:48:47,360
What what's your what can you add to I would say that this is a this is a

3318
05:48:47,360 --> 05:48:51,760
This is a partial that would be concerned about to wildfires and control board

3319
05:48:51,760 --> 05:48:58,420
Obviously or are something that are planned by the the the individual districts and that they have a a little bit better

3320
05:48:58,420 --> 05:49:00,920
Management of but if it was a wildfire

3321
05:49:00,920 --> 05:49:06,880
There could be there could be damage that could be associated because of where it sits because it sits within an

3322
05:49:06,880 --> 05:49:10,200
development portion, like to the east, is the picking

3323
05:49:10,200 --> 05:49:14,940
used during state force to the west, and to the south,

3324
05:49:15,220 --> 05:49:18,020
are preserved land from Hoth's end, so if it's a wildfire,

3325
05:49:18,460 --> 05:49:24,900
it would be more susceptible to damage from that wildfire.

3326
05:49:25,320 --> 05:49:28,580
But the one thing about this proposal is they're

3327
05:49:28,580 --> 05:49:30,520
not proposing any residential development.

3328
05:49:30,640 --> 05:49:34,160
They are 10 transient lodging facilities,

3329
05:49:34,160 --> 05:49:41,400
But in terms of the the overall impact that wildfire would have upon this location it could be it could be

3330
05:49:41,400 --> 05:49:48,860
Substantial, but it's not really structures. It's more of it. It's impacted golf course in the the holes within that golf course

3331
05:49:48,860 --> 05:49:51,100
So yeah, but where it sits it

3332
05:49:51,100 --> 05:49:58,300
You know wild wildfires will be something of a primary concern for how they designed this course in how they have the water

3333
05:49:58,300 --> 05:50:01,740
Manning the water management system and how that we're how they place that

3334
05:50:02,360 --> 05:50:05,440
Mr. Cook, lastly, how did it score for Conservation

3335
05:50:05,440 --> 05:50:05,740
Collier?

3336
05:50:05,860 --> 05:50:09,860
Because we sort of forced the issue, but I at least felt

3337
05:50:09,860 --> 05:50:12,540
like it was worth running it to the finish line,

3338
05:50:12,840 --> 05:50:15,180
so that if we made a command decision here

3339
05:50:15,180 --> 05:50:17,100
that it wasn't worth the $2,000 investment

3340
05:50:17,100 --> 05:50:20,120
to do the appraisal where we would get spares thrown out.

3341
05:50:20,160 --> 05:50:22,680
It says, wow, I bet if you would have done the appraisal,

3342
05:50:22,800 --> 05:50:23,900
maybe you would have taken them out,

3343
05:50:24,280 --> 05:50:27,280
and we talked quite a bit about this in these private meetings

3344
05:50:27,280 --> 05:50:30,600
that we had with the group, and it was, you know what?

3345
05:50:30,600 --> 05:50:35,380
Let's make the investment so we either pursue or exhaust all possible options.

3346
05:50:35,580 --> 05:50:39,540
And I feel like we certainly did that and then some, but can you give us a little synopsis

3347
05:50:39,540 --> 05:50:45,100
of when we, when we made you, you know, move forward and it wasn't the owner, you know,

3348
05:50:45,220 --> 05:50:48,100
the owner did take our recommendation and say, you know, apply for it.

3349
05:50:48,280 --> 05:50:53,660
So we can at least rule this in or out or maybe it appraises at a, at a figure that maybe

3350
05:50:53,660 --> 05:50:59,860
does attract you or what not, can you tell us sort of in summary the process that you went

3351
05:50:59,860 --> 05:51:01,680
through and how it scored.

3352
05:51:02,000 --> 05:51:09,700
Sure, so at the May 12th, BCC meeting, we brought this to you as for consideration for conservation

3353
05:51:09,700 --> 05:51:10,460
call your.

3354
05:51:10,880 --> 05:51:15,320
When staffed at our initial review of the property, we actually ranked it on the do not

3355
05:51:15,320 --> 05:51:19,460
acquire a list for several reasons.

3356
05:51:19,460 --> 05:51:26,820
The first being that there's a very low native vegetation on the property.

3357
05:51:26,820 --> 05:51:32,160
I know the report says there's about 22 acres but by our land development code definition

3358
05:51:32,160 --> 05:51:38,140
there's actually only about three acres of 169 that would be considered native for preservation

3359
05:51:38,140 --> 05:51:44,700
purposes. So most of that native vegetation was actually full of exotics that would have to

3360
05:51:44,700 --> 05:51:51,880
be removed. Some of the other staff concerns that we raised were environmental cleanup of the

3361
05:51:51,880 --> 05:52:04,620
after 50 years of farming, as well as it would be financially very difficult to restore that property to what most people would consider for conservation

3362
05:52:04,620 --> 05:52:15,080
call your land. The advisory committee did rank it on the A list mostly because of the wildlife utilization and the potential for restoration.

3363
05:52:15,080 --> 05:52:21,940
And if only a small amount of acres are really conducive to a bald life because of certain

3364
05:52:21,940 --> 05:52:26,700
vegetation and why not, then when you look at that footprint as a whole, is it really,

3365
05:52:26,740 --> 05:52:28,240
I don't want to say, is it really that valuable?

3366
05:52:28,420 --> 05:52:29,980
I don't want to use the wrong words, so...

3367
05:52:30,000 --> 05:52:42,660
So let you make answer in a much better way, but is that whole footprint really of a super significant use and value of wildlife.

3368
05:52:42,800 --> 05:52:53,540
Stuff always cuts through empty land. So I mean, you know, everybody sees something, but also to, as you've said here before, when we've considered conservation, higher properties.

3369
05:52:53,540 --> 05:53:00,820
at times you say, you know, this one is a minimal cut through because it's wetlands and the

3370
05:53:00,820 --> 05:53:05,320
panthers aren't going to walk through wetlands or it doesn't really have the shade, the

3371
05:53:05,320 --> 05:53:10,240
trees, the hiding from predators and whatnot. So they'll tend to walk around this.

3372
05:53:10,460 --> 05:53:16,040
What's your assessment having seen the area of this of the value as to the weight that

3373
05:53:16,040 --> 05:53:20,920
it would really carry for wildlife usage, the way it sits now?

3374
05:53:20,920 --> 05:53:24,960
I think you, you hit it pretty much head on. I mean, it's going to be a property that animals

3375
05:53:24,960 --> 05:53:30,740
are going to traverse through. It's not going to be nusting or dending habitat with the exception

3376
05:53:31,440 --> 05:53:37,760
of maybe some gators getting into some of the ditches at some points in time, but for habitat

3377
05:53:37,760 --> 05:53:44,280
for dending nusting, things like that, very minimal. I really want to thank you for not only how

3378
05:53:44,280 --> 05:53:50,900
much you can work with this group as we try to exhaust every possible option, but the sense of

3379
05:53:50,900 --> 05:53:55,660
emergency, you have this feed to get us the answers to talk with the owner and everything like that.

3380
05:53:55,780 --> 05:54:01,440
I mean, you certainly made this a top priority as we had requested and you know, and that was obvious.

3381
05:54:01,940 --> 05:54:03,400
And so we're at the point that we're at now.

3382
05:54:03,860 --> 05:54:05,060
So, and that's all I have for now.

3383
05:54:05,080 --> 05:54:06,360
I will have some questions for Mr.

3384
05:54:07,300 --> 05:54:09,740
Avonovich, but we'll wait till he comes back up.

3385
05:54:10,060 --> 05:54:10,400
Not now.

3386
05:54:11,420 --> 05:54:11,660
I will.

3387
05:54:12,060 --> 05:54:14,580
Some other commissioners might have some questions for Mr. Bozy.

3388
05:54:14,840 --> 05:54:15,600
Mr. Saunders.

3389
05:54:16,260 --> 05:54:20,280
I did have a quick question for Mr. Avonovich before we do the public comment.

3390
05:54:22,060 --> 05:54:23,480
Obviously, traffic is always an issue.

3391
05:54:23,580 --> 05:54:25,620
I know you've got your traffic counts and everything there.

3392
05:54:26,020 --> 05:54:28,640
Question is, and it's private course like this,

3393
05:54:28,740 --> 05:54:30,520
which will be an exclusive course.

3394
05:54:31,540 --> 05:54:34,040
About how many rounds of golf on a busy day

3395
05:54:34,040 --> 05:54:35,860
would typically be expected?

3396
05:54:36,280 --> 05:54:38,920
And I know you have to keep a limit on that.

3397
05:54:39,240 --> 05:54:41,980
Well, on a typical busy day.

3398
05:54:41,980 --> 05:54:42,880
Busy day.

3399
05:54:43,140 --> 05:54:45,940
At a course like this, you're talking 70 to 90 rounds of golf.

3400
05:54:46,440 --> 05:54:46,580
Thank you.

3401
05:54:46,660 --> 05:54:49,440
And I just wanted to point out, there's about 150 cars

3402
05:54:49,440 --> 05:54:54,460
today coming to the existing fruit stand and

3403
05:54:54,460 --> 05:54:56,180
vegetable stand. So been there many times

3404
05:54:56,180 --> 05:54:58,760
myself. Right. So so you're probably talking

3405
05:54:58,760 --> 05:55:01,860
about comparable traffic. And if I might

3406
05:55:01,860 --> 05:55:03,640
I just wanted to point out something in

3407
05:55:03,640 --> 05:55:07,480
that in our PUD, we have a requirement to have a

3408
05:55:07,480 --> 05:55:09,540
wildfire management plan as a part of the

3409
05:55:09,540 --> 05:55:11,440
development of this project. So I just wanted

3410
05:55:11,440 --> 05:55:13,300
to make sure you're aware of that

3411
05:55:13,300 --> 05:55:14,720
commercial capital. Which that property

3412
05:55:14,720 --> 05:55:16,760
doesn't have now. It doesn't it doesn't

3413
05:55:16,760 --> 05:55:19,060
have now. And I also wanted to point out

3414
05:55:19,060 --> 05:55:23,620
that our habitat is no different than verona walks habitat was.

3415
05:55:23,900 --> 05:55:28,420
When verona walk was approved as far as it was also primary

3416
05:55:28,420 --> 05:55:31,740
panther habitat and that's many homes that we're talking about.

3417
05:55:33,280 --> 05:55:40,860
Ten transient cottages so from an impact we're far less impactful

3418
05:55:40,860 --> 05:55:48,500
to primary panther habitat and also I think Mike said or it was with

3419
05:55:48,500 --> 05:55:54,560
who said that the golf course actually will act like a fire break or for what's on the other side

3420
05:55:54,560 --> 05:56:00,700
of it. So it's not going to be a home, I can't wait for home. That was could potentially

3421
05:56:00,700 --> 05:56:03,640
be in harm's way. And I didn't mean to interrupt you, Chris, or Saunders, do you have

3422
05:56:03,640 --> 05:56:04,200
other questions?

3423
05:56:04,620 --> 05:56:05,620
No, I'm just kind of curious.

3424
05:56:07,000 --> 05:56:10,180
If it plays the chairman just while you're, while you're, and I know somebody else is lit up,

3425
05:56:10,300 --> 05:56:16,540
but just while we're talking traffic, you didn't touch on your possible improvement of

3426
05:56:16,540 --> 05:56:20,020
stable palm road say this was past you know you talked about how you

3427
05:56:20,020 --> 05:56:23,860
improved the the footprint in the acreage and all that is there any

3428
05:56:23,860 --> 05:56:28,760
doing that would would change stable palm road. I'm sorry there

3429
05:56:28,760 --> 05:56:32,320
wouldn't be a need to do that for this project you know if we were doing

3430
05:56:32,320 --> 05:56:38,780
the the 400 plus homes we were going to if we have to make improvements to

3431
05:56:38,780 --> 05:56:43,440
stable palm from work currently ends to our entrance we'll do that but we're

3432
05:56:43,440 --> 05:56:46,520
currently right now we don't think we'll need to. Thank you sir. Other than the

3433
05:56:47,720 --> 05:56:52,280
underground drainage and possible system to bring the water from the other

3434
05:56:52,280 --> 05:56:55,740
and after that all comes. You're trying to make sure, Tim or Indo, if

3435
05:56:55,740 --> 05:57:00,940
Tim or Indo brings their water to some sort of, they'll do that. They're going to bring

3436
05:57:00,940 --> 05:57:05,120
it to us and we'll take it through, or I'm also talking about the two larger

3437
05:57:05,120 --> 05:57:10,380
culverts. So we don't have any water on the other side, nor side of it, say, I was thinking

3438
05:57:10,380 --> 05:57:14,240
the pavement area. We were not going to widen the pavement or bring sidewalks, but

3439
05:57:14,240 --> 05:57:19,960
Yes, where we have to build the UNF to improve so that we will have to do some well

3440
05:57:19,960 --> 05:57:23,540
probably cut part of the road to put in the culverts, I'll let JD answer them more

3441
05:57:23,540 --> 05:57:29,720
specifically, but as a whole, there will not be improvements by us to stable palm.

3442
05:57:30,180 --> 05:57:34,760
If it has to be improved because Tamarindow brings their water and they put pipes in there

3443
05:57:34,760 --> 05:57:39,520
then they'll obviously replace whatever the damage they did to you haven't had conversations

3444
05:57:39,520 --> 05:57:40,280
with Tamarindow.

3445
05:57:40,280 --> 05:57:48,380
I have, I have, I actually, I have, I believe we're not, but reached out to me, and I said to

3446
05:57:48,380 --> 05:57:56,100
them, we could work with them if that becomes a solution to their current state.

3447
05:57:58,340 --> 05:57:58,820
Mr. McGregor.

3448
05:57:59,200 --> 05:57:59,620
Yes.

3449
05:58:00,200 --> 05:58:06,240
And, and, if you would just clarify the wildfire management plan, is that the notification

3450
05:58:06,240 --> 05:58:11,020
to your membership that this is an area that's conducive to wildfires?

3451
05:58:11,020 --> 05:58:17,000
I think that is all over that as well as I think you can land there's certain landscaping

3452
05:58:17,000 --> 05:58:21,880
that you put close to like the clubhouse and things like that but we're happy to provide

3453
05:58:21,880 --> 05:58:26,640
an notification to all of our members that there's good control burns in the area we've done

3454
05:58:26,640 --> 05:58:32,380
you know for sure we've done we did that at Belmar and Longwater out there at Big Cyprus and

3455
05:58:32,380 --> 05:58:37,960
next to the Panther preserve right and I just wanted to clarify happy to provide that notification

3456
05:58:37,960 --> 05:58:38,620
to our members.

3457
05:58:39,160 --> 05:58:49,400
Now, early on, in my earlier discussions, we were talking about the 10 units and quite frankly,

3458
05:58:49,520 --> 05:58:55,900
I mean, we may be able to, these the answer is to make them go away, but I'm not necessarily

3459
05:58:55,900 --> 05:59:03,040
opposed to those 10 transient units, is there something that we can do that would protect

3460
05:59:03,040 --> 05:59:09,480
against expansion, the future residential, presidential development, from a deed restriction standpoint

3461
05:59:09,480 --> 05:59:14,460
if they were to voluntarily consent to that.

3462
05:59:18,240 --> 05:59:26,440
If the goal is to make sure this property does not develop, live, local, the built-in

3463
05:59:26,440 --> 05:59:32,300
suspended approach would be to not approve the homes and restrict the covenant or take

3464
05:59:32,300 --> 05:59:32,660
restriction.

3465
05:59:37,400 --> 05:59:40,480
Before I let everybody go, I just got a couple of quick questions.

3466
05:59:40,620 --> 05:59:42,000
I don't know if it might be for Mr. Hall.

3467
05:59:42,120 --> 05:59:45,160
Is he like kind of your biology, kind of expert?

3468
05:59:45,980 --> 05:59:46,540
Yeah, 10.

3469
05:59:47,400 --> 05:59:48,420
Yeah, Mr. Hall.

3470
05:59:48,980 --> 05:59:50,800
He gets really nervous if you call him this wrong.

3471
05:59:50,960 --> 05:59:51,800
I'm sorry, Jim.

3472
05:59:52,880 --> 05:59:55,060
I might as well throw a couple of questions out to you before.

3473
05:59:55,420 --> 05:59:57,220
Because we're going to do is, after I'm done my questions,

3474
05:59:57,420 --> 05:59:58,820
I'm going to take court report or break.

3475
05:59:58,820 --> 05:59:59,500
You all right, Dave?

3476
06:00:00,700 --> 06:00:02,420
And then we'll get the public comment.

3477
06:00:03,640 --> 06:00:09,720
Real quick, so like I said, the beginning of this whole thing when I laid this all out before, you know, we started this whole hearing process.

3478
06:00:10,300 --> 06:00:28,120
It was basically what we got is a future golf course designed in a way that, you know, the Audubon International, and I heard a lot of good things from the gentleman that is very passionate and seems like he used it with the EPA for many, many years, with the state of Florida, kind of, knows about it, understands it.

3479
06:00:28,120 --> 06:00:33,240
And then a citrus grove that pretty much is dying doesn't have a lot of veggies.

3480
06:00:33,520 --> 06:00:40,380
We found out any as about 3% native vegetation on it actually, no real new vegetation actually growing there.

3481
06:00:40,640 --> 06:00:41,400
About 3 acres.

3482
06:00:41,520 --> 06:00:42,380
It's about 3 acres.

3483
06:00:42,760 --> 06:00:44,240
That would qualify under your code.

3484
06:00:44,400 --> 06:00:46,660
So I'm going to ask you some questions that you're going to do.

3485
06:00:46,780 --> 06:00:47,580
It's like a game show.

3486
06:00:47,660 --> 06:00:50,540
I'm going to say, all right, citrus grove, golf course.

3487
06:00:51,340 --> 06:00:57,620
All right, white-tailed deer, are they more attracted to citrus grove in condition or to

3488
06:00:57,620 --> 06:01:01,240
to this golf course that you're planning on developing.

3489
06:01:02,500 --> 06:01:07,120
Year round attraction would be I would put the golf course ahead of the

3490
06:01:07,120 --> 06:01:13,360
growth. Okay golf course gets more white-tailed deer. How about birds of prey? Like

3491
06:01:13,360 --> 06:01:18,420
ball eagles? Because I know I live behind a golf course on a big set-pon. I actually have

3492
06:01:18,420 --> 06:01:23,020
a family of ball eagles live at the end of the lake and a really enjoy the clear

3493
06:01:23,020 --> 06:01:27,260
pathway to come in and snatch the fish out of the lake. Take it up to the nest and

3494
06:01:27,260 --> 06:01:29,980
their babies and live a happy life that way.

3495
06:01:30,220 --> 06:01:32,380
Well, plus the golf course will have a lake.

3496
06:01:33,220 --> 06:01:34,520
The orange grove doesn't.

3497
06:01:34,640 --> 06:01:35,900
It has ditches.

3498
06:01:35,960 --> 06:01:39,520
They said bald eggs will be more attracted to a golf course or orange

3499
06:01:39,520 --> 06:01:40,160
group.

3500
06:01:40,400 --> 06:01:44,380
Certain raptors like bald eagles, cestrols, caracarras.

3501
06:01:44,600 --> 06:01:48,280
The birds that really like to open areas will be more attracted to the golf course.

3502
06:01:48,300 --> 06:01:48,700
That's good.

3503
06:01:49,060 --> 06:01:52,860
So they might be some potential chances for bald eagles to start nesting their

3504
06:01:52,860 --> 06:01:54,320
starting families.

3505
06:01:56,300 --> 06:02:01,700
about furrow hogs and boars, what are they like to feed on like grobs and stuff like

3506
06:02:01,700 --> 06:02:06,920
it, which is really damp, moist, fresh, green areas, and long fringes of lakes.

3507
06:02:07,180 --> 06:02:13,140
They'll also come in and forage on like the down, if fruit isn't picked and falls on the ground,

3508
06:02:13,460 --> 06:02:18,480
they'll go in and eat the oranges and some of the citrus that lands on the ground as well.

3509
06:02:18,480 --> 06:02:28,000
Okay, so, so primary protein source for portfolio to panther, from what I understand, my

3510
06:02:28,000 --> 06:02:30,500
little researcher did is a white-tailed deer.

3511
06:02:30,880 --> 06:02:35,560
The second is usually hog or furl hog or furl hog, and then kind of go down the list

3512
06:02:35,560 --> 06:02:36,320
to some of the smaller ones.

3513
06:02:36,320 --> 06:02:37,680
But smaller mammals, correct?

3514
06:02:37,740 --> 06:02:42,800
Which would also be more attractive to the golf course, like raccoons, possums.

3515
06:02:43,460 --> 06:02:45,240
Well, it depends on the time of year.

3516
06:02:45,240 --> 06:02:53,420
again, sometimes like raccoons also could be a food source. But yeah, for the panthers.

3517
06:02:53,420 --> 06:02:57,440
Sometimes what the small animals, food source, to get a golf course, and we'll be going to a

3518
06:02:57,440 --> 06:03:03,160
citrus. Well, and that's what I'm saying. Well, rabbits, rabbits, and all yes, could survive well

3519
06:03:03,160 --> 06:03:08,760
on the golf course, and you'll see them on every golf course here in town. Raccoons, at certain

3520
06:03:08,760 --> 06:03:12,600
times of the year, when the fruits right, they like the groves they'll go in and get the fruit out

3521
06:03:12,600 --> 06:03:20,320
the groves as well so they both have some attractions so more likely through all these surrounding

3522
06:03:20,320 --> 06:03:26,400
areas where we do know there's a lot of panther further to the east that once the deer

3523
06:03:26,400 --> 06:03:31,260
understand this golf course is there these hogs understand it understand it's a it's a regular

3524
06:03:31,260 --> 06:03:37,860
food source of to them they'll traverse through those woods on their way over there at night because

3525
06:03:37,860 --> 06:03:42,800
not turn, or even the panthers not not turn, or even the deer feed not turn, or the hogs

3526
06:03:42,800 --> 06:03:46,600
like the not turn, and that's what nobody's on the golf course anyways.

3527
06:03:47,000 --> 06:03:47,800
So they get used to that.

3528
06:03:47,800 --> 06:03:50,960
They actually develop, like I like a mindset saying, you know what?

3529
06:03:50,960 --> 06:03:55,020
This is safe to feed there, and it's abundant with the type of food we like.

3530
06:03:55,560 --> 06:04:00,560
So in reality, we're going to create a greater food source for our panthers that naturally

3531
06:04:00,560 --> 06:04:05,860
survive in the wilderness as around this golf course, for them to choose on to get a high

3532
06:04:05,860 --> 06:04:10,580
protein diet to become more strain and more sustainability just by the golf course

3533
06:04:10,580 --> 06:04:12,020
existing where it exists.

3534
06:04:12,300 --> 06:04:17,620
The golf course can provide a consistent year-round food source for some of the praise

3535
06:04:17,620 --> 06:04:24,400
species for the path there whereas the grove is more of a seasonal food source in a lot of

3536
06:04:24,400 --> 06:04:24,920
cases.

3537
06:04:25,500 --> 06:04:26,520
Thank you so much.

3538
06:04:26,680 --> 06:04:27,240
Thank you.

3539
06:04:28,040 --> 06:04:28,740
Thank you.

3540
06:04:28,740 --> 06:04:34,520
Mr. Hogg, just before we take a break, do you know if any soil samples of the current orange

3541
06:04:34,520 --> 06:04:37,820
have been done, is there anything that your group has done even per

3542
06:04:37,820 --> 06:04:41,920
elementary things to figure out what you're about to inherit and what type of

3543
06:04:41,920 --> 06:04:44,020
remediation might need to be made?

3544
06:04:45,000 --> 06:04:48,780
Okay, so I know there, I believe there was a phase one, environmental assessment

3545
06:04:48,780 --> 06:04:54,840
and also done that was done by by my group or anything, so I don't, I don't have any

3546
06:04:54,840 --> 06:04:56,140
specific details on it.

3547
06:04:56,600 --> 06:04:57,480
Do we have the county?

3548
06:04:58,800 --> 06:05:04,500
Yes, a phase one assessment was done for the property, when it was going through the

3549
06:05:04,500 --> 06:05:08,360
conservation call your process, we did recommend a phase 2 assessment as well.

3550
06:05:09,000 --> 06:05:12,760
If we were to enter into negotiations, but a phase 1 was completed.

3551
06:05:13,500 --> 06:05:17,920
So just understanding the process, depending on what the determination was of the current

3552
06:05:17,920 --> 06:05:23,920
soil status, with the golf course have to, in order for it to meet all of the parameters

3553
06:05:23,920 --> 06:05:28,980
of what would be acceptable, would they have to do some sort of significant remediation

3554
06:05:28,980 --> 06:05:35,400
to get the sort of levels back up to a much, you know, a certain standard that it's not at now.

3555
06:05:35,820 --> 06:05:41,480
So the phase one assessment typically is more of kind of a desktop computer type assessment.

3556
06:05:41,520 --> 06:05:45,660
It looks that uses on the property, historical areas, and things like that.

3557
06:05:45,660 --> 06:05:51,560
And then makes recommendations. That phase two assessment takes those recommendations and actually

3558
06:05:51,560 --> 06:05:57,360
does the sampling. So once you get those results, you know what remediation specifically it would

3559
06:05:57,360 --> 06:06:02,080
And then whatever it is, if it was something significant, and just did go through, there would

3560
06:06:02,080 --> 06:06:03,980
have to accommodate that.

3561
06:06:04,120 --> 06:06:04,300
Correct?

3562
06:06:04,460 --> 06:06:04,540
Correct.

3563
06:06:05,620 --> 06:06:10,360
If I can answer that question for you, we've done so all samples, and it's suitable for

3564
06:06:10,360 --> 06:06:11,800
the golf course to go forward.

3565
06:06:12,300 --> 06:06:13,880
So we're safe.

3566
06:06:14,060 --> 06:06:16,700
It's not like we're hoping that it's all going to be cleaned.

3567
06:06:17,580 --> 06:06:18,400
We've done the sampling.

3568
06:06:22,140 --> 06:06:22,940
All right.

3569
06:06:23,500 --> 06:06:24,700
And then we're questions to the board.

3570
06:06:24,720 --> 06:06:26,660
Let's go ahead and do that court reporter break.

3571
06:06:26,660 --> 06:06:33,060
It's take 15 minutes, I'm back at 3.16 and then we'll go right into public comment.

3572
06:20:35,380 --> 06:20:43,140
Your seats, they're going to get started, Tom, we still what 40 you said or do we change, right?

3573
06:20:44,440 --> 06:20:47,840
I think we added an additional one, so 41.

3574
06:20:49,660 --> 06:20:56,000
All right, everybody go ahead and take your seats, we're going to get started with the public comments on this particular agenda item.

3575
06:20:56,540 --> 06:21:01,520
Once again, I know I saw like a broken record, make sure your phones, because you may have walked outside, use your phone or something,

3576
06:21:01,520 --> 06:21:05,980
I've got to make sure they're on silence and respect the people with the podiums and Tom will

3577
06:21:05,980 --> 06:21:14,000
have you cut off that each podium for a time we keep things moving along, so all right Tom.

3578
06:21:14,500 --> 06:21:19,060
Yes sir, as the chair mentioned, I'll ask in the interest of time if you could queue up that

3579
06:21:19,060 --> 06:21:24,180
both podiums. You'll have three minutes to speak and you'll hear a beep when you have 30 seconds

3580
06:21:24,180 --> 06:21:29,420
remaining. Our first registered speaker is current wager and she will be followed by

3581
06:21:29,420 --> 06:21:33,500
I apologize if I get this wrong. Laura Gelli-Wittick.

3582
06:21:46,830 --> 06:21:48,470
My afternoon commissioners.

3583
06:21:49,870 --> 06:21:55,170
My name is Corin Wager. I'm a retired combat veteran, proud Jewish Zionist, and a member of the Pickle-Wish on E Tribe.

3584
06:21:55,830 --> 06:22:02,990
The area in Brockovich was instrumental in assuming the PGE company for poisoning the town of Hinkley's drinking water with Hexavaila Chromium.

3585
06:22:03,670 --> 06:22:11,690
The case was settled in 1996 for 333 million. The largest settlement ever paid in a direct action lawsuit in the United States history to that date.

3586
06:22:12,470 --> 06:22:15,710
Like Erin Brock of it, I truly care about Call Your County.

3587
06:22:16,150 --> 06:22:20,230
I will fiercely advocate and protect the health of Call Your County residents, our drinking

3588
06:22:20,230 --> 06:22:25,270
water, water sources, ground in service, our natural resources, our land, our wetlands,

3589
06:22:29,690 --> 06:22:29,970
our

3590
06:22:30,000 --> 06:22:35,400
Administration is now putting more than a hundred species at risk by removing protections which allows for harmful

3591
06:22:35,400 --> 06:22:41,360
over-development and toxic Gulf courses. The endangered species at protects millions of acres of

3592
06:22:41,360 --> 06:22:46,760
critical habitat for bears, Florida-pans or alligators, budget-bads, sea turtles, manatees,

3593
06:22:47,060 --> 06:22:52,060
and other plants and animals. These protections is sent to people, enabling them to hike, swim, hunt,

3594
06:22:52,260 --> 06:22:57,260
and fish. The environment is our tourism. There is no good reason for destroying our precious

3595
06:22:57,260 --> 06:23:03,680
land with over-development and toxic Gulf Courses. Gulf Courses use pesticides, herbicides,

3596
06:23:03,860 --> 06:23:09,400
insecticides to maintain turf and control pest at levels up to 15 times higher than those in

3597
06:23:09,400 --> 06:23:17,160
Europe. Chemicals such as two-four, D, chloropypheroes, periquot, manneb, and ruminum, each associated

3598
06:23:17,160 --> 06:23:21,740
with neurodegeneration, have been linked to Parkinson's disease and pesticide-related cancers,

3599
06:23:22,180 --> 06:23:26,480
such as non-hutch-consumphoma, leukemia, and bladder cancer. Workers who can't

3600
06:23:26,480 --> 06:23:31,300
The pale-quot in Rutton have developed Parkinson's rates two to three times higher than those

3601
06:23:31,300 --> 06:23:33,040
workers who have never handled those chemicals.

3602
06:23:33,940 --> 06:23:38,840
Even when the gold standard is utilized, the Journal of American Medical Association demonstrated

3603
06:23:38,840 --> 06:23:45,160
that there is a 126% increase risk of developing this neurodegendative condition with

3604
06:23:45,160 --> 06:23:50,340
inner visuals who reside within one mile of a golf course, significant elevated risk within

3605
06:23:50,340 --> 06:23:56,040
three miles, and water sources that share with a golf course nearby, double the odds of developing

3606
06:23:56,040 --> 06:24:00,500
Parkinson's. Aries with vulnerable groundwater systems, shallow bedrock, poor

3607
06:24:00,500 --> 06:24:04,780
soils, shallow wells, demonstrate an increased risk and spike in developing

3608
06:24:04,780 --> 06:24:10,100
Parkinson's. Golf courses, negatively impact the environment and wildlife

3609
06:24:10,100 --> 06:24:14,380
through groundwater pollution and fertilizers, herbicides and psychedocytes and

3610
06:24:14,380 --> 06:24:18,840
pesticides. Toxins get into your body through contaminated drinking water, airborne

3611
06:24:18,840 --> 06:24:24,160
drift and direct skin contact. This permanently damages the health of animals and

3612
06:24:24,160 --> 06:24:28,780
humans. Natural habitats are diverse ecosystems of biodiversity and

3613
06:24:28,780 --> 06:24:34,720
florida in the fauna. We love our land and we want to preserve all the future

3614
06:24:34,720 --> 06:24:39,700
generations to come. We should keep the looms and zoned for agriculture and

3615
06:24:39,700 --> 06:24:43,080
create community gardens and teaching gardens and farming and conjunction with

3616
06:24:43,080 --> 06:24:47,800
the Botanical Gardens or universities. Say no to any developer, law firm or

3617
06:24:47,800 --> 06:24:52,340
representative who does not fiercely protect and preserve almost precious ecosystems

3618
06:24:52,960 --> 06:24:58,760
Biodiversity are Florida and Fana and most importantly the residents of Clare County, so they know to talk sick golf courses

3619
06:25:02,020 --> 06:25:06,060
No, no plotting please be here. Oh, my

3620
06:25:07,400 --> 06:25:13,040
I keep things moving. Mr. Chair your next registered speaker is Laura Gellie with it

3621
06:25:13,040 --> 06:25:17,240
And she will be followed by I believe this is baby cancer

3622
06:25:18,260 --> 06:25:20,820
I don't see her in the audience we be going

3623
06:25:21,900 --> 06:25:22,560
All right

3624
06:25:24,260 --> 06:25:27,220
And Laura will be followed by Monica Higgins.

3625
06:25:30,270 --> 06:25:31,530
Good afternoon, commissioners.

3626
06:25:31,950 --> 06:25:33,550
Thank you for allowing me this time.

3627
06:25:33,810 --> 06:25:34,730
Don't know how much I can say.

3628
06:25:34,910 --> 06:25:36,530
The lady before me did a beautiful job.

3629
06:25:37,090 --> 06:25:39,090
I wanted to talk about pesticides, et cetera.

3630
06:25:39,610 --> 06:25:43,130
You can't do even near with the good job that she did.

3631
06:25:43,390 --> 06:25:45,790
There's already over 13, I'm sorry, over 1200,

3632
06:25:46,150 --> 06:25:47,490
golf courses in Florida.

3633
06:25:48,390 --> 06:25:51,250
Florida's most cop, of course, in the country.

3634
06:25:51,630 --> 06:25:54,750
The state of Florida has the most golf courses in the whole country.

3635
06:25:54,750 --> 06:26:03,730
We really need another one, and I'm thinking to myself, how many people really have 300,000 just put down and never get it back?

3636
06:26:04,030 --> 06:26:05,390
Probably very, very rich people.

3637
06:26:05,630 --> 06:26:07,830
Needless to say, I've been here for six years.

3638
06:26:07,930 --> 06:26:14,430
Actually, yesterday was my anniversary, six year being in the Roman Walk, I'm on Zenig of Zenig Drive.

3639
06:26:15,230 --> 06:26:20,150
So I'm thinking, I don't understand why we need another one.

3640
06:26:20,150 --> 06:26:27,550
I mean, oh, the thing I want to say about where we live is a upper kind of up-class middle-class neighborhood.

3641
06:26:28,290 --> 06:26:31,990
But there's a portion of, if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only here six years.

3642
06:26:32,470 --> 06:26:37,190
Seems to me, northern Naples is a richer section of Naples.

3643
06:26:37,370 --> 06:26:39,970
May I go along? Please. Can't trick me if I'm wrong.

3644
06:26:40,170 --> 06:26:48,430
Sounds like we'd really, but someone would be interested in putting $300,000 to be in a golf course here at this portion of Naples.

3645
06:26:48,430 --> 06:26:50,690
I don't know if that doesn't make sense to me.

3646
06:26:51,130 --> 06:26:53,970
Obviously I'm against the rezoning, right now,

3647
06:26:54,350 --> 06:26:56,990
because fires are an issue because I remember last year

3648
06:26:56,990 --> 06:27:00,450
it was horrible that the those fires that it was getting

3649
06:27:00,450 --> 06:27:02,870
a little bit concerning in the run-off

3650
06:27:02,870 --> 06:27:06,310
and also the Tamarando Tamarando place.

3651
06:27:06,890 --> 06:27:08,650
Do you really think they have $500,000

3652
06:27:09,110 --> 06:27:10,590
that they could put toys aside?

3653
06:27:11,090 --> 06:27:12,510
They can't even rent those places.

3654
06:27:12,850 --> 06:27:13,950
I mean, maybe you can get it from them,

3655
06:27:14,070 --> 06:27:15,950
but I would be shocked, I would be really shocked.

3656
06:27:15,950 --> 06:27:22,630
I'm concerned also the over-development, the six years I'm here, I'm overwhelmed without over-developed

3657
06:27:22,630 --> 06:27:30,310
naples' I mean, I don't have children, I went into my career, but I'm thinking the younger generation,

3658
06:27:30,490 --> 06:27:37,530
what are we leaving for these kids, my God, every place I go, development's all apartments, condos,

3659
06:27:37,850 --> 06:27:37,870
whatever.

3660
06:27:38,490 --> 06:27:44,250
I had many more things to tell you, but I kind of like what I, but I, oh, I also, when I get my

3661
06:27:44,250 --> 06:27:45,950
Bill on the mail of my text bill.

3662
06:27:46,250 --> 06:27:48,450
It has the panther in the corner.

3663
06:27:49,250 --> 06:27:50,570
I think you should change that logo,

3664
06:27:51,130 --> 06:27:52,270
because we're losing all the panthers.

3665
06:27:52,590 --> 06:27:56,150
He either put a bulldozer or a cementer, if he has me.

3666
06:27:57,590 --> 06:27:59,250
I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

3667
06:28:00,310 --> 06:28:02,290
And closing because a lot of my other stuff

3668
06:28:02,290 --> 06:28:04,030
has already been mentioned.

3669
06:28:04,710 --> 06:28:08,210
Oh, price of greed, not the price of progress.

3670
06:28:08,330 --> 06:28:09,450
That's what seems to be happening.

3671
06:28:09,810 --> 06:28:10,030
Thank you.

3672
06:28:10,210 --> 06:28:10,730
Thank you.

3673
06:28:11,650 --> 06:28:14,230
Our next registered speaker is Monica Higgins.

3674
06:28:14,230 --> 06:28:16,490
And she will be followed by Robin Stinky.

3675
06:28:19,780 --> 06:28:20,980
Thank you, I'm Monica Higgins.

3676
06:28:21,120 --> 06:28:23,300
Thank you for allowing me to speak today.

3677
06:28:24,200 --> 06:28:26,420
I am against the rezoning of this property,

3678
06:28:26,500 --> 06:28:30,880
and I'm sure others will cover other areas that might need to be talked about,

3679
06:28:30,900 --> 06:28:35,520
but I want to speak specifically about the suggestion that an odd bond

3680
06:28:35,520 --> 06:28:40,420
international signature course would be good for the habitat of the animals living there.

3681
06:28:41,060 --> 06:28:43,500
I have worked on golf courses for over 30 years.

3682
06:28:43,500 --> 06:28:46,380
Most of them were autobond certified.

3683
06:28:47,480 --> 06:28:49,660
The last 10 years here in Call Your County.

3684
06:28:50,860 --> 06:28:54,740
These were not at areas that allow for animal habitats.

3685
06:28:56,940 --> 06:28:57,980
Let me tell you why.

3686
06:28:58,300 --> 06:28:59,880
It starts at five o'clock in the morning,

3687
06:29:00,440 --> 06:29:03,880
because that's when the mowers and the blowers and the weed ears

3688
06:29:03,880 --> 06:29:09,460
and the edges and the utility vehicles all start out with lights on

3689
06:29:09,460 --> 06:29:13,460
so they can see to work in the dark for the next two and a half to three hours.

3690
06:29:14,400 --> 06:29:18,280
Then you have 20 to 30 people running this equipment.

3691
06:29:18,640 --> 06:29:19,620
They have to come in.

3692
06:29:19,680 --> 06:29:21,000
They have cars coming in.

3693
06:29:21,140 --> 06:29:26,280
You talk about 50 to 70, 50, 70, 70 traffic coming in.

3694
06:29:26,380 --> 06:29:28,080
How about the workers that work there?

3695
06:29:28,320 --> 06:29:29,260
They have to come in.

3696
06:29:29,260 --> 06:29:35,680
They have to park this and then there's the irrigation system has to run.

3697
06:29:36,000 --> 06:29:37,920
And the irrigation has to be repaired.

3698
06:29:38,320 --> 06:29:42,440
You have people all over the course making noise and lights and actions.

3699
06:29:42,440 --> 06:29:44,740
So the dark sky thing doesn't fit either.

3700
06:29:47,240 --> 06:29:50,320
And then you have the irrigation, the fertilizers,

3701
06:29:50,460 --> 06:29:53,740
the fungicides, and the pesticides that you have to apply

3702
06:29:53,740 --> 06:29:57,600
because you have to keep the grass at 3, 30 seconds of an inch

3703
06:29:57,600 --> 06:29:59,960
for the grass to be potable and they have to...

3704
06:30:00,000 --> 06:30:03,060
12, like everybody wants.

3705
06:30:05,930 --> 06:30:13,570
Additions. Then have aeration, power raking, vacuuming, and tractors, the

3706
06:30:13,570 --> 06:30:21,150
command that's sliced-sitter, and inject an insecticide to kill malkricots and nematodes. So, it's not

3707
06:30:21,150 --> 06:30:28,650
a simple green open space. It's an active production area, active turf production area.

3708
06:30:31,860 --> 06:30:39,960
Habitat if there is any is along the edges because you're there to play golf, you're not there to make habitat for animals.

3709
06:30:41,340 --> 06:30:52,420
You can have a few butterfly gardens, so you might have an area for, I don't know, any little animal, but you're not going to have panthers living on the course.

3710
06:30:52,420 --> 06:30:59,460
You're not going to have habitat for anything besides rabbits and the animals that do come in

3711
06:30:59,460 --> 06:31:05,160
like the boars and the deer will have to be hunted because they tear up the golf course.

3712
06:31:05,880 --> 06:31:07,960
So you're not making habitat for animals.

3713
06:31:10,930 --> 06:31:15,690
And then if you have cottages in a clubhouse, then you have people that have to come in and service

3714
06:31:15,690 --> 06:31:17,210
to cottages in the clubhouse.

3715
06:31:17,530 --> 06:31:19,210
So there's more personnel coming in.

3716
06:31:19,210 --> 06:31:25,070
people that bring in food in alcohol and paper products and clean clean the

3717
06:31:25,070 --> 06:31:31,210
property of and do laundry. So it's not a simple thing as saying that it's just an

3718
06:31:31,210 --> 06:31:36,850
open space and does not encourage wildlife. I am against, I'm not against the

3719
06:31:36,850 --> 06:31:41,930
out of on in program because I have certified courses, but it's just a small step

3720
06:31:41,930 --> 06:31:46,610
up from a regular golf course and it's not habitat for animals. Thank you.

3721
06:31:47,650 --> 06:31:53,390
Our next registered speaker is Robin Stanky, and she will be followed by J. Cole Hagen.

3722
06:31:55,150 --> 06:32:01,190
Good afternoon. My name is Robin Stanky, and I'm here to comment on behalf of the Conservancy of Southwest Florida.

3723
06:32:02,350 --> 06:32:08,190
The Conservancy has a long history in protecting the lands within and around the Pika-Yoon-Strand State Forest,

3724
06:32:08,190 --> 06:32:11,890
also known as Southern Golden Gate estates and Bel-Meed.

3725
06:32:13,410 --> 06:32:24,370
This parcel is within the Florida forever Bel-Meed acquisition area, and is adjacent to lands that are part of Pigeon's strand and lands that are set aside for conservation purposes.

3726
06:32:25,830 --> 06:32:30,690
This parcel is also part of the rule French mixed-used district sending lands.

3727
06:32:30,690 --> 06:32:42,570
We oppose this proposal to remove nearly 170 acres from RFMUD sending to intensify the land in order to develop a private golf course with amenities.

3728
06:32:44,190 --> 06:32:47,950
Intensification for this use is not appropriate in this location.

3729
06:32:49,110 --> 06:32:59,470
The Sabel Palm property contains important habitat for the endangered Florida painters and other wildlife, and is currently classified as sending lands under the RFMUD.

3730
06:32:59,470 --> 06:33:12,030
which limits use to load density development, agriculture, conservation, and participation in the RFMU-D's transfer of development rights TDR program.

3731
06:33:13,650 --> 06:33:26,490
While this land does consist of citrus grows, that does not diminish its ecological value, especially when considered in a location context adjacent to pick a UNstrand state forest.

3732
06:33:27,570 --> 06:33:35,450
This land is sensitive habitat, in an important location, and its classification as RFMUD

3733
06:33:35,450 --> 06:33:39,050
sending has always been and remains appropriate.

3734
06:33:40,590 --> 06:33:46,710
Taking the Sabel Park parcel out of the RFMUD overlay, in order to build a private golf course,

3735
06:33:47,010 --> 06:33:54,170
contains no public benefit to call your county, or the RFMUD overlay, and does not discourage urban

3736
06:33:54,170 --> 06:34:00,870
strong. The Conservancy Beliefs, one of the most important functions for the commissioners,

3737
06:34:01,250 --> 06:34:08,010
is to uphold the integrity of the comprehensive plan. Therefore, we ask that you deny this

3738
06:34:08,010 --> 06:34:15,010
application as being not in the best interest of Koya County. Thank you. Our next registered

3739
06:34:15,010 --> 06:34:19,550
Speaker's J. Cole Hagen followed by Samuel Weiskell.

3740
06:34:20,570 --> 06:34:24,230
The missioners. J. Cole Hagen for the record.

3741
06:34:25,770 --> 06:34:30,150
And precinct 434 committee man and mosquito control commissioner.

3742
06:34:31,230 --> 06:34:32,050
Seat 3 candidate.

3743
06:34:33,370 --> 06:34:34,690
What that said.

3744
06:34:35,610 --> 06:34:39,450
My concern is what could happen if you approve this golf course

3745
06:34:39,450 --> 06:34:45,150
zoning particularly because Hassiana lakes owns property directly adjacent to this site.

3746
06:34:45,490 --> 06:34:52,990
Florida, Florida's new SB 686 agricultural and Klaver law raises important question.

3747
06:34:54,050 --> 06:34:59,450
Could the approval of this golf course rezoning help create the 75% perimeter needed for

3748
06:34:59,450 --> 06:35:04,870
the adjacent property to pursue the development under the SB 686 law?

3749
06:35:04,870 --> 06:35:12,870
You know, the law that you commissioners have no say so when they pull the trigger on it.

3750
06:35:14,270 --> 06:35:18,830
If the answer is yes, then you are voting on to they could.

3751
06:35:19,150 --> 06:35:22,510
You're voting to they have consequences beyond the orange grove in front of you.

3752
06:35:22,750 --> 06:35:26,010
I'm asking you to make sure you understand the consequences before you vote.

3753
06:35:27,170 --> 06:35:30,950
I'd like to have my capacity come up and explain to the board before you make the decision.

3754
06:35:30,950 --> 06:35:37,570
because in the future you might not have a decision to make. Thank you.

3755
06:35:38,270 --> 06:35:43,790
Our next registered speaker is Samuel Weiskell, and he will be followed by James Weiskell.

3756
06:35:44,610 --> 06:35:51,390
Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Samuel Weiskell, and I'm here to speak against the proposed changes at 341 Sabol Palm Road.

3757
06:35:51,930 --> 06:35:56,430
To me, the bigger issue is where call your county wants development to occur in the future.

3758
06:35:56,430 --> 06:35:59,930
This property is outside the urban development boundary.

3759
06:36:00,530 --> 06:36:05,650
It is in the rural fringe mixed use district and is currently designated as sending land.

3760
06:36:06,250 --> 06:36:11,470
In area that the county has specifically identified because of its environmental value and sensitivity.

3761
06:36:12,470 --> 06:36:18,090
The county's own explanation says that sending lands are an area of the highest environmental value and sensitivity

3762
06:36:18,090 --> 06:36:24,010
and that the purpose of the program is to direct development rights away from those areas towards receiving lands

3763
06:36:24,010 --> 06:36:26,390
where development is considered more appropriate.

3764
06:36:27,430 --> 06:36:29,130
There is a pretty important planning principle.

3765
06:36:29,170 --> 06:36:30,990
That's a pretty important planning principle.

3766
06:36:31,650 --> 06:36:35,910
My question is, why are we changing that plan for this particular property?

3767
06:36:36,590 --> 06:36:39,410
I understand that the proposed golf course is less intensive

3768
06:36:39,410 --> 06:36:42,130
than the 423 homes that were previously proposed.

3769
06:36:43,170 --> 06:36:45,470
But I don't think the question should simply be,

3770
06:36:45,490 --> 06:36:48,250
as a golf course better than 423 houses.

3771
06:36:48,730 --> 06:36:51,130
The question should be, is a private golf course

3772
06:36:51,130 --> 06:36:53,150
the kind of development that belongs on land

3773
06:36:53,150 --> 06:36:55,050
that the county intentionally designated

3774
06:36:55,050 --> 06:36:58,910
as rural sending lands outside the urban development boundary.

3775
06:36:59,970 --> 06:37:02,250
And remember, this isn't simply a request

3776
06:37:02,250 --> 06:37:04,210
to build something that is already permitted.

3777
06:37:04,870 --> 06:37:07,570
The county is being asked to change the growth management plan

3778
06:37:07,570 --> 06:37:10,250
and then change the zoning to a governmentate this plan.

3779
06:37:11,010 --> 06:37:13,130
I also think we need to consider what happens

3780
06:37:13,130 --> 06:37:14,590
if we start making exceptions

3781
06:37:14,590 --> 06:37:18,750
to this planning system one property at a time.

3782
06:37:18,750 --> 06:37:24,130
If property outside the urban development boundary can be removed from the Sending Land designation,

3783
06:37:24,730 --> 06:37:29,970
whenever an alternative development proposal comes along, what happens to the purpose of the Sending Lands Program?

3784
06:37:30,000 --> 06:37:39,660
The county has the rights and responsibility to, including the responsibility to maintain a consistent long-term plan for how call your county grows.

3785
06:37:40,080 --> 06:37:44,940
For me, that's the issue. It's about whether we want to continue directing growth towards the area.

3786
06:37:45,520 --> 06:37:53,240
The county has designated for development or start making exceptions for development in areas specifically designated to remain rural and environmentally sensitive.

3787
06:37:53,960 --> 06:37:58,240
I respectfully ask you to vote no on items 9C and 9D. Thank you.

3788
06:37:58,440 --> 06:37:59,380
Thank you.

3789
06:37:59,380 --> 06:38:04,760
Our next registered speaker is James Weiskel, and he will be followed by Robert Bloom.

3790
06:38:05,880 --> 06:38:15,280
Good afternoon. My name is James Weiskel, and I'm here today because I'm strongly opposed to the proposed changes affecting 341 Sabol Palm Road.

3791
06:38:15,880 --> 06:38:21,240
I think it's important to understand that this is about more than simply building a golf course.

3792
06:38:21,240 --> 06:38:29,120
What is being requested is a change that counties existing land use designation, as well as a change to the

3793
06:38:29,120 --> 06:38:38,200
Boundary Establish by Ordnance 8905 in order to create a special designation that would allow an 18-hole golf course in 10 cottages.

3794
06:38:39,120 --> 06:38:49,400
I understand that the property owner has rights and I respect those rights, but having the right to own property is not the same thing as having the right to have the county change

3795
06:38:49,400 --> 06:38:56,240
land use plan to accommodate a particular project. This property is currently designated as

3796
06:38:56,240 --> 06:39:02,440
rural fringe mixed use, sending lands. And the county's own comprehensive plan says that sending

3797
06:39:02,440 --> 06:39:08,620
lands have the highest degree of environmental value and sensitivity in our principal target

3798
06:39:08,620 --> 06:39:14,600
for preservation and conservation. So we're not talking about just any piece of vacant land.

3799
06:39:14,600 --> 06:39:20,180
We're talking about changing a designation that the county specifically created to protect

3800
06:39:20,180 --> 06:39:22,220
environmentally sensitive land.

3801
06:39:22,900 --> 06:39:28,120
I realize a golf course is less intensive than putting hundreds of homes on this property,

3802
06:39:28,620 --> 06:39:32,160
but that doesn't automatically make it environmentally appropriate.

3803
06:39:32,920 --> 06:39:39,020
Golf course requires significant irrigation, fertilizer, pesticides, and stormwater management.

3804
06:39:39,020 --> 06:39:47,080
and the county's own conservation call your review found approximately 22 acres of native plant habitat on this property.

3805
06:39:48,020 --> 06:39:58,880
There are also wildlife and water concerns, the county's policies specifically talk about protecting listed species habitat and maintaining wildlife corridors.

3806
06:39:59,380 --> 06:40:03,700
And I think there's an important point about the conservation call your offer.

3807
06:40:03,700 --> 06:40:09,660
The owner had every right to reject that offer, but rejecting an offer to sell the property

3808
06:40:09,660 --> 06:40:15,240
doesn't mean the county should then change its land use designation and boundary to

3809
06:40:15,240 --> 06:40:17,740
make the owners prefer development possible.

3810
06:40:18,440 --> 06:40:22,560
The missioners, I'm not asking you to take this property away from the owner.

3811
06:40:23,020 --> 06:40:27,900
I'm asking you to protect the integrity of the plan that call your county itself adopted.

3812
06:40:28,600 --> 06:40:32,760
If we're going to change both the land use designation and the boundary establish

3813
06:40:32,760 --> 06:40:39,260
under ordinance 8905. I believe there needs to be a very strong legal and environmental justification

3814
06:40:39,260 --> 06:40:45,000
for doing it. I respectfully ask you to vote against these amendments. Thank you.

3815
06:40:45,320 --> 06:40:51,280
Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Robert Blum and he will be followed by Jennifer

3816
06:40:51,280 --> 06:40:51,980
Asling.

3817
06:40:54,050 --> 06:40:58,650
Good afternoon. My name is Robert Blum and thank you for your opportunity.

3818
06:40:58,650 --> 06:41:04,650
speak on the Sable Palm Citrus Rope proposed private golf course in cabins.

3819
06:41:05,630 --> 06:41:13,890
My take of it is that this proposal has no general public benefit for district one or

3820
06:41:14,370 --> 06:41:16,030
call your county in general.

3821
06:41:17,270 --> 06:41:20,870
Call your county if you all love to call home and want the best for.

3822
06:41:21,950 --> 06:41:26,130
Has approximately 90 golf courses.

3823
06:41:26,130 --> 06:41:31,670
and which, according to I think, was Mr. Hillibran said, there's seven public courses.

3824
06:41:32,150 --> 06:41:34,730
So, it means there's 83 private golf courses.

3825
06:41:37,110 --> 06:41:41,650
Prior to the county has the highest or nearly the highest concentration of private golf courses

3826
06:41:41,650 --> 06:41:48,790
in the United States, the need for another private golf course on an environmentally sensitive

3827
06:41:48,790 --> 06:41:54,970
land by changing the designation from sending this not whole water and does not serve the general

3828
06:41:54,970 --> 06:41:55,430
public.

3829
06:41:56,310 --> 06:42:02,090
In the supplemental staff report, executive summary, the justification by the developer team

3830
06:42:02,090 --> 06:42:09,170
uses a document showing the membership weights and initiation fees of 10 comparable private

3831
06:42:09,170 --> 06:42:15,730
golf courses that I think it was referred to as document by RVI, Mr. Hilbert referred to it.

3832
06:42:17,230 --> 06:42:22,810
This is not only not provided any proof of general public benefit and in fact provides the

3833
06:42:22,810 --> 06:42:28,190
opposite. Another private golf course for the wealthy and super wealthy, so they have to

3834
06:42:28,190 --> 06:42:35,490
wait less time to join. That's what we're doing here today. According to Mr. Hilibrand,

3835
06:42:35,930 --> 06:42:40,070
the developer's golf course consultant told the Planning Commission, there's unfulfilled

3836
06:42:40,070 --> 06:42:47,050
the man he explained that again today about 700 people are on the waiting list again into these

3837
06:42:47,050 --> 06:42:49,310
comparable golf courses,

3838
06:42:51,330 --> 06:42:53,250
700 people out of a

3839
06:42:53,250 --> 06:42:57,190
coyote county population, 400,000, but adults to 150,000,

3840
06:42:57,190 --> 06:42:59,090
how is that any general public benefit?

3841
06:43:00,390 --> 06:43:06,430
And again, they've mentioned that the initiation fee was 300,000.

3842
06:43:06,430 --> 06:43:09,090
How many in this room can afford 300,000 million dollars?

3843
06:43:09,610 --> 06:43:10,510
I don't think many.

3844
06:43:12,130 --> 06:43:16,050
The National average public golf courses in an area is 61%.

3845
06:43:16,050 --> 06:43:22,350
percent, the 39 percent private. Again, this proposal has no general public benefit.

3846
06:43:24,510 --> 06:43:29,530
At the neighborhood meeting, I think it was passed June, and again, it was mentioned about

3847
06:43:29,530 --> 06:43:36,570
O'Reilly International. Well, what is O'Reilly International? What it isn't is the National

3848
06:43:36,570 --> 06:43:42,790
Audubon Society, the opposite. It is an organization funded by golf courses, and the United

3849
06:43:42,790 --> 06:43:49,570
government association. Golf courses pay thousands of dollars to obtain certification. That's

3850
06:43:49,570 --> 06:43:56,790
a self-fulfilling outcome. Additionally, it takes up to three years to complete certification if

3851
06:43:56,790 --> 06:43:57,850
they get it.

3852
06:44:02,280 --> 06:44:07,800
That's 30 seconds. That's 30 seconds. That's your final beaver.

3853
06:44:07,800 --> 06:44:16,380
OK, I just want to say an conclusion that a wealthy private golf course, an on-clave

3854
06:44:16,380 --> 06:44:20,160
in the middle of preserved lands has no general public benefit.

3855
06:44:20,940 --> 06:44:21,080
Thank you.

3856
06:44:21,320 --> 06:44:21,940
Thank you.

3857
06:44:22,340 --> 06:44:25,200
Our next registered speaker is Jennifer Astling.

3858
06:44:26,280 --> 06:44:29,300
Jennifer has a speaker seeding time to her Cynthia Bryce.

3859
06:44:29,940 --> 06:44:30,600
Thank you Cynthia.

3860
06:44:31,280 --> 06:44:35,220
Jennifer, you'll have six minutes and she will be followed by Richard next time.

3861
06:44:37,520 --> 06:44:41,200
Man would you prefer to sit out with the microphone or are you okay standing with me?

3862
06:44:41,200 --> 06:44:45,520
I'm okay saying that if you don't mind my voice shaking for just a moment but I do appreciate the offer

3863
06:44:45,520 --> 06:44:46,620
I just want to make sure

3864
06:44:47,460 --> 06:44:51,510
So I think all of you have heard the time to allow us to speak I

3865
06:44:52,580 --> 06:44:59,980
I've sat here and I'll be honest since I've been part of this since 2002 actually 97 when all of this started

3866
06:45:01,260 --> 06:45:12,500
All of most of your time, I think. But in those times, there were a lot that we went through. So when I was looking through this, the only thing I kept coming up with was inconvenient truths.

3867
06:45:13,060 --> 06:45:17,340
And the unfortunate part is no one in this room is exempt from the immediate truths that I found.

3868
06:45:18,720 --> 06:45:29,120
So we've debated a lot about whether or not the smits have the right to change their land. And I would never want to say that they can't because, as I've said here before,

3869
06:45:29,120 --> 06:45:35,220
They've been our neighbors for 36, 32, 40, whatever years, and I want what's best for them,

3870
06:45:35,300 --> 06:45:39,660
but I don't want to give up my life or the lives of those of us around them to do that.

3871
06:45:40,160 --> 06:45:44,400
One of the things that keeps getting brought up is that, you know, it could have been changed.

3872
06:45:44,560 --> 06:45:46,140
They didn't have to have the sending units.

3873
06:45:46,560 --> 06:45:49,980
And you're right, they didn't, but see, we were all notified of that.

3874
06:45:50,200 --> 06:45:55,560
There were letters that went out, there were conversations that had all going back to the original

3875
06:45:55,560 --> 06:46:03,680
ordinance of 2002-32. In during that time, we had signs that came out, we had

3876
06:46:03,680 --> 06:46:08,180
mailings that came in, that gave us that lovely year to come here in front of you

3877
06:46:08,180 --> 06:46:13,120
or in front of the courts and say, hey, we don't want our land to be this. And while I

3878
06:46:13,120 --> 06:46:16,220
appreciate the fact that they were busy and I appreciate whatever reasons we're

3879
06:46:16,220 --> 06:46:20,440
coming to now, that wasn't done. The first time that they were notified that they

3880
06:46:20,440 --> 06:46:29,220
the right to change this was sent out April 10th through the 15th of 2002. So why were here 25 years later

3881
06:46:29,220 --> 06:46:34,360
having the same conversation I'm not exactly sure? I know that they have the right to come before

3882
06:46:34,360 --> 06:46:39,340
you and say hey please do what's right for our lands but so do I. So does everyone else in this room

3883
06:46:39,340 --> 06:46:44,280
and unlike the people that live in Barona walk or the other developments they don't live under a

3884
06:46:44,280 --> 06:46:50,340
mile away from this. So when the light pollution happens which it will it's not their lands affected

3885
06:46:50,340 --> 06:46:55,240
But when you go out on table palm at midnight, there is no lights, there's some of the

3886
06:46:55,240 --> 06:46:59,160
houses, there's horses, there's animals, we bought into that life.

3887
06:46:59,500 --> 06:47:04,580
We wanted that life to expect it to change now because someone 25 years later says that

3888
06:47:04,580 --> 06:47:07,180
that doesn't work for them doesn't really work for me.

3889
06:47:07,840 --> 06:47:14,180
If I were to come into any of your communities like, I do believe that we'll pick any one

3890
06:47:14,180 --> 06:47:14,520
of these.

3891
06:47:14,780 --> 06:47:18,040
That is one of the auto-bond societies, tip-run, for example.

3892
06:47:18,040 --> 06:47:24,240
I couldn't go into Tibron even if I owned all the money in the world and buy that golf course and say in the middle of your development

3893
06:47:24,240 --> 06:47:30,440
I'm gonna put my farm. You're gonna wake up to my cows. You're gonna wake up to my horses. You're gonna wake up to my geese and

3894
06:47:30,440 --> 06:47:33,880
God forbid you make one of our our peacock's mad because let me tell you

3895
06:47:34,240 --> 06:47:41,020
You know anybody that lives on Brandy Lane can tell you you are woken up by one of our neighbors animals or one of the horses or one of those things

3896
06:47:41,020 --> 06:47:47,240
But I couldn't do that to your areas. I couldn't walk in and say hey, this is the zoning that works for me

3897
06:47:47,240 --> 06:47:54,680
Why is it okay now 25 years later for you to come into my land in some my area where I live and say it's okay

3898
06:47:54,680 --> 06:47:57,540
And we're saying we can't talk about the future

3899
06:47:57,540 --> 06:48:04,320
We can't say that this could lead into a development the problem with that is I live on the 200 block of stable pump or a brandy land

3900
06:48:04,320 --> 06:48:08,640
Directly behind me. It's Hasi Handa at 690

3901
06:48:09,220 --> 06:48:14,240
Approximate eight years now. I paraphrasing because I don't have the exact age acreage here

3902
06:48:14,240 --> 06:48:15,980
But that's just on the one side of the road.

3903
06:48:16,540 --> 06:48:19,420
You go on the side that connects to the Citrus Grove and there's more

3904
06:48:19,420 --> 06:48:23,960
acreages that around them that also brought up to the picking and state park.

3905
06:48:26,450 --> 06:48:29,390
How can you tell me that that can't eventually become development?

3906
06:48:30,910 --> 06:48:34,090
When the Smith's family has bought 300 table palm.

3907
06:48:34,670 --> 06:48:37,550
They have bought the easement to the church immediately next to it.

3908
06:48:37,590 --> 06:48:41,330
They bought the easement to the property on the 300 side of Brandy Lane,

3909
06:48:41,590 --> 06:48:42,930
all for the housing development.

3910
06:48:42,930 --> 06:48:48,390
And while that was made for that, maybe it doesn't stop from being there property now.

3911
06:48:48,750 --> 06:48:52,290
It doesn't stop it from owning a development owning that.

3912
06:48:52,490 --> 06:48:53,950
That's one side of my land.

3913
06:48:54,350 --> 06:48:56,150
The other side of my land is already Hacienda.

3914
06:48:57,210 --> 06:49:01,190
So I appreciate that we're not supposed to talk about inconvenient truths,

3915
06:49:01,210 --> 06:49:02,630
but that's my inconvenient truth.

3916
06:49:03,090 --> 06:49:05,750
When I walk out of here today, regardless of what you decide,

3917
06:49:06,670 --> 06:49:08,150
my life will be affected by it.

3918
06:49:08,330 --> 06:49:11,590
You change the sending into something that is commercial,

3919
06:49:11,590 --> 06:49:17,030
something that is not residential, especially for owners who have not gone any other route

3920
06:49:17,030 --> 06:49:22,490
but developers. We have talked about conservation collier. There is no public price for this land.

3921
06:49:22,990 --> 06:49:28,430
There is no public listing for this land. There are about 15 different places that you can go just

3922
06:49:28,430 --> 06:49:34,110
for self-situations. There are places you can go to sell land that people would be interested in for

3923
06:49:34,110 --> 06:49:40,770
things like ranches. We spent $756 million or billion dollars to do the piquean

3924
06:49:40,770 --> 06:49:44,590
strand. And we're not asking why we're not pitching this property right next

3925
06:49:44,590 --> 06:49:50,770
store to people who would live in agricultural sending land. It doesn't make sense. Money

3926
06:49:50,770 --> 06:49:57,210
makes sense. Now, I happen to have a degree in crime analysis and happen to graduate

3927
06:49:57,210 --> 06:50:01,550
second in my class, happen to work in banking and April for less 15-20 years. So I

3928
06:50:01,550 --> 06:50:06,050
know there's money here and I know how to follow but I don't know how to follow logic that

3929
06:50:06,050 --> 06:50:12,010
doesn't go back we give someone a year to come back and say hey you don't like this don't

3930
06:50:12,010 --> 06:50:17,690
do it no one did that you don't have the right to do that I don't have the right to do that why

3931
06:50:17,690 --> 06:50:23,290
is that here there's a statute of limitations for everything and we've applied it I want this family

3932
06:50:23,290 --> 06:50:28,510
to be successful I don't think they have the right to destroy an area because of it and before we

3933
06:50:28,510 --> 06:50:33,870
talk about things like animals and bed or landing, we forgot that there was a panther that

3934
06:50:33,870 --> 06:50:37,250
came out right by their preserve, that's the only one that is done that came out with

3935
06:50:37,250 --> 06:50:41,870
cubs, went back, came out with three more cubs, and while that's not convenient and it

3936
06:50:41,870 --> 06:50:45,630
doesn't do a lot, it doesn't say that they have a tail on it, it's the land that we bought

3937
06:50:45,630 --> 06:50:52,070
into. 86 acres of land, just in one mile of people who thought that this was the world

3938
06:50:52,070 --> 06:50:55,810
that we wanted. How is it different now? Thank you for your time.

3939
06:50:55,810 --> 06:50:58,370
Thank you.

3940
06:50:58,770 --> 06:51:04,410
Our next registered speaker is Richard X-Dine and he will be followed by Michaela Kendall.

3941
06:51:08,610 --> 06:51:09,970
Richard X-Dine.

3942
06:51:13,240 --> 06:51:14,140
All right, it doesn't appear.

3943
06:51:15,100 --> 06:51:16,740
Richard is here.

3944
06:51:17,500 --> 06:51:18,080
Michaela Kendall.

3945
06:51:19,120 --> 06:51:24,080
Michaela is our next registered speaker and Michaela will be followed by Susan Skolf.

3946
06:51:29,610 --> 06:51:31,430
All right, hello commissioners for the record.

3947
06:51:31,830 --> 06:51:32,690
Michaela Kendall.

3948
06:51:33,590 --> 06:51:39,890
My concern is that approving this project would fundamentally change county policy, undermining

3949
06:51:39,890 --> 06:51:45,450
environmental safeguards for one property without adequately demonstrating that doing so serves

3950
06:51:45,450 --> 06:51:49,730
public interest or protects surrounding natural resources and neighboring communities.

3951
06:51:50,870 --> 06:51:55,650
This is a decision on whether or not the county's long-standing system for directing growth

3952
06:51:55,650 --> 06:52:01,010
and protecting environmentally sensitive lands still holds the spirit as originally intended.

3953
06:52:02,650 --> 06:52:08,410
Now, I have, all over the place, I've been following this since we started with the 400

3954
06:52:08,410 --> 06:52:15,390
in some houses, obviously that was shut down, but now we're here for a golf course, and

3955
06:52:15,390 --> 06:52:20,430
there's been a lot of conversation about, well, as a golf course, more sustainable for animals

3956
06:52:20,430 --> 06:52:25,810
or as an orange grove, and I think it's very funny, because some of my earliest memories

3957
06:52:25,810 --> 06:52:29,790
are in a mockery, writing down and looking.

3958
06:52:30,000 --> 06:52:41,380
Down the orange grows, looking for Turkey, and dear early in the mornings. You know, whether they make habits at there or they're just hanging out, you know, shade from the trees, that's one thing.

3959
06:52:42,120 --> 06:52:55,860
But my real concern is the changing of this land, changing it from the sending designation, and specifically changing it to a community facility.

3960
06:52:55,860 --> 06:53:02,920
I was actually looking in your land development code, section 2.03.05, right, it says a community

3961
06:53:02,920 --> 06:53:10,460
facilities for the purpose and intent are non-residential land uses, generally identified

3962
06:53:10,460 --> 06:53:15,820
in the urban designation of the future land use map, or it's our element.

3963
06:53:16,720 --> 06:53:22,860
Dimensional standards are intended to ensure compatibility, again, with existing or future nearby

3964
06:53:22,860 --> 06:53:28,940
residential development. My concern is that if you establish this as a community facility,

3965
06:53:29,460 --> 06:53:35,000
properties around it can then look at that and say, well, this is justifying future residential

3966
06:53:35,000 --> 06:53:41,020
development. So I really, I don't understand why we need the community facility designation.

3967
06:53:42,460 --> 06:53:49,000
They're not even asking just for neutral. I, again, I still think that a sent, it should be classified

3968
06:53:49,000 --> 06:53:55,880
a sensitive land. I think that agriculture is important for our economy, important for our environment,

3969
06:53:56,100 --> 06:54:00,060
important for us because it feeds it. If we're talking about, you know, chemicals and stuff,

3970
06:54:00,380 --> 06:54:05,320
yeah, you need chemicals on an orange grove. Did you give me my extra time? Was that six minutes?

3971
06:54:08,150 --> 06:54:11,550
Well, she had water. I don't remember you saying it at the beginning. Yeah, I'm so sorry.

3972
06:54:11,950 --> 06:54:15,770
I didn't realize. It was at the end somebody through the meantime.

3973
06:54:17,150 --> 06:54:18,530
Did you stop her timer?

3974
06:54:18,770 --> 06:54:19,030
You did.

3975
06:54:19,290 --> 06:54:19,530
Okay.

3976
06:54:20,650 --> 06:54:21,590
Sorry about that.

3977
06:54:21,670 --> 06:54:22,050
Sorry, sir.

3978
06:54:22,070 --> 06:54:22,930
Let me check really quick.

3979
06:54:23,930 --> 06:54:26,010
It was the last person to put one in of Brittany.

3980
06:54:29,530 --> 06:54:30,170
And she is here.

3981
06:54:30,270 --> 06:54:32,770
She raised your hand.

3982
06:54:33,630 --> 06:54:34,390
Put it down.

3983
06:54:34,730 --> 06:54:35,590
Put it up.

3984
06:54:38,310 --> 06:54:38,990
I'm a service.

3985
06:54:43,080 --> 06:54:44,800
We should get three minutes and thirty seconds.

3986
06:54:45,500 --> 06:54:46,280
But that at all.

3987
06:54:47,020 --> 06:54:47,880
We're good now.

3988
06:54:50,220 --> 06:54:50,420
All right.

3989
06:54:50,460 --> 06:54:51,760
Sorry about that.

3990
06:54:52,500 --> 06:54:52,780
All right.

3991
06:54:52,800 --> 06:54:53,320
Where was I?

3992
06:54:53,320 --> 06:55:20,140
So yeah, I have issues with the community facility aspect of it, again, I'm concerned that in the future, I understand that they want to dedicate this, it's just going to be a golf course, that's all find and nanny, but unless we get those beef restrictions, we're not that can't be guaranteed, you know what I mean, the owner is going to shift things are going to change, not everyone's always going to want to play golf, I

3993
06:55:22,860 --> 06:55:26,020
know that the live local act came up a lot.

3994
06:55:26,040 --> 06:55:28,240
especially during the planning meeting.

3995
06:55:29,440 --> 06:55:32,720
I honestly don't think that as it stands with their current designation,

3996
06:55:33,220 --> 06:55:37,100
that they would receive approval because of the sensitive land.

3997
06:55:38,180 --> 06:55:41,300
But if you did go through with approving this,

3998
06:55:41,640 --> 06:55:46,420
I fear that the changes would give them greater...

3999
06:55:47,140 --> 06:55:47,700
Sorry.

4000
06:55:48,760 --> 06:55:52,220
It would make it more likely for them to get approval under the live local act.

4001
06:55:55,240 --> 06:56:01,760
I also wanted to talk about the fact that Parkinson's disease, right?

4002
06:56:02,060 --> 06:56:05,560
There have been studies that come out that show if you live within a golf course.

4003
06:56:05,880 --> 06:56:09,240
You are more likely to develop that disease.

4004
06:56:09,940 --> 06:56:14,680
I think it was like you have the highest chances within one to three miles, but then it

4005
06:56:14,680 --> 06:56:15,240
continues.

4006
06:56:16,140 --> 06:56:21,400
I first talked about it, but I wanted to kind of circle it back to something else, so the

4007
06:56:21,400 --> 06:56:27,040
the panthers have been dealing with a neurological issue, that's not, they don't know the root cause of it.

4008
06:56:28,320 --> 06:56:33,220
It's a neurological disorder that affects their back legs and makes it difficult for them to walk.

4009
06:56:33,740 --> 06:56:39,080
My concern is that introducing more chemicals to a land that they're in,

4010
06:56:39,780 --> 06:56:47,160
I understand we don't know what the cause is, but I would hate to perpetuate an issue that already exist.

4011
06:56:48,160 --> 06:56:54,520
Again, I'm kind of linking to kind of different ideas, Parkinson's disease to this.

4012
06:56:54,740 --> 06:56:59,480
Panthers disease, that again, we still don't know much about, but I would hate to see that

4013
06:56:59,480 --> 06:57:03,260
it net, I'm sorry, hate to see it negatively affect the Panthers.

4014
06:57:17,770 --> 06:57:23,010
Also, most of the properties along Sable Palm Drive, I believe are not on public sewer,

4015
06:57:23,010 --> 06:57:30,270
their private septic tanks and use a lot of well water. So again, that groundwater is going

4016
06:57:30,270 --> 06:57:35,810
to be affected by the pesticides. I understand that, you know, Autobahn has their best

4017
06:57:35,810 --> 06:57:39,430
management practices, but that does not mean that they're not putting chemicals into the

4018
06:57:39,430 --> 06:57:46,750
ground. It's just best practices. In conclusion, this application asks you to amend the comprehensive

4019
06:57:46,750 --> 06:57:51,790
plan to amend the land development code and establish new zoning framework for one property

4020
06:57:51,790 --> 06:57:55,030
adjacent to one of Florida's most significant restoration projects.

4021
06:57:55,790 --> 06:58:00,010
I don't believe the applicant has demonstrated that these amendments are necessary,

4022
06:58:00,770 --> 06:58:04,670
consistent with long-term planning objectives, or protective of neighboring communities

4023
06:58:04,670 --> 06:58:05,910
or natural resources.

4024
06:58:06,470 --> 06:58:10,990
Until these issues are fully addressed, I respectfully ask you to deny these petitions.

4025
06:58:11,750 --> 06:58:12,110
Thank you.

4026
06:58:12,250 --> 06:58:14,290
Thank you.

4027
06:58:14,290 --> 06:58:15,490
Mr. Chair, if I may.

4028
06:58:16,110 --> 06:58:18,370
What was the name of the person who seeded you time?

4029
06:58:20,760 --> 06:58:20,900
Pretty?

4030
06:58:21,300 --> 06:58:27,340
Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Susan Skulf and Susan has speakers that I've

4031
06:58:27,340 --> 06:58:33,220
seen a time to her Mary Lou Jenkowski. Raise your hand. If you could raise her hand.

4032
06:58:33,220 --> 06:58:38,120
She had to leave because she was here at 830 and she had to leave. She didn't know what was

4033
06:58:38,120 --> 06:58:44,920
going to go on the song. Michelle Fraser. Okay. Susan, you'll have six minutes. Thank you.

4034
06:58:45,840 --> 06:58:50,500
Good morning. Well, I better change my new commissioners.

4035
06:58:51,300 --> 06:58:57,640
My name is Susan Schelf, and I'm asking you to deny this rezoning.

4036
06:58:58,400 --> 06:59:03,800
First, let's expose the legal trap, county legal warnings make it clear that approving

4037
06:59:03,800 --> 06:59:10,620
a commercial designation here creates a dangerous legal loophole, under Florida's

4038
06:59:10,620 --> 06:59:17,220
Live Local Act, granting commercial entitlement risks, stripping this board's local land

4039
06:59:17,220 --> 06:59:24,260
use the authority entirely, opening the door for up to 129 high density, residential units

4040
06:59:24,260 --> 06:59:31,140
through Hacienda Lake's density transfers, without any local oversight or public control.

4041
06:59:31,860 --> 06:59:36,440
Once that commercial door is opened, you cannot close it.

4042
06:59:36,880 --> 06:59:41,880
Second, this is a designated conservation sending area in the Bell Mead overlay.

4043
06:59:41,880 --> 06:59:50,660
Just yesterday, the landowner officially rejected conservation collures fair market value purchase offer.

4044
06:59:51,620 --> 06:59:59,980
Walking away from a fair tax payer funded buyout at the very last minute is a classic all or nothing developer tactic designed.

4045
07:00:00,300 --> 07:00:10,360
To force a commercial resum, taxpayers funded conservation calyer precisely to preserve sensitive lands like this.

4046
07:00:10,720 --> 07:00:19,040
You are under no obligation to bail out a private landowner with a commercial windfall because they refused a fair public offer.

4047
07:00:19,740 --> 07:00:27,880
Granting an exception here sets a devastating precedent for land conservation across our entire county.

4048
07:00:27,880 --> 07:00:33,660
Third, this is the primary Florida panther habitat and a vital ecosystem.

4049
07:00:34,560 --> 07:00:43,020
This land acts as a critical wildlife corridor, buffering the Picaune, strand state forests,

4050
07:00:43,800 --> 07:00:50,160
converting protected habitat into a commercial footprint, further fragments this corridor,

4051
07:00:50,820 --> 07:00:54,740
critical to the survival of Florida's endangered state animal.

4052
07:00:54,740 --> 07:00:58,820
Do not be misled by greenwashing.

4053
07:00:59,800 --> 07:01:03,680
The applicant claims credentials through Audubon International,

4054
07:01:03,860 --> 07:01:10,940
but Audubon International is a private membership organization funded by golf course fees.

4055
07:01:11,260 --> 07:01:18,300
It has no government oversight or endorsement and is completely separate from the National Audubon Society.

4056
07:01:18,300 --> 07:01:25,900
paid-goss certifications do not change the fact that this is commercial development on protected

4057
07:01:25,900 --> 07:01:27,380
Panther habitat.

4058
07:01:28,500 --> 07:01:34,580
Fourth, Consider Water in Public Safety, the applicant suggests installing culverts to

4059
07:01:34,580 --> 07:01:38,500
manage water, but culverts merely move water faster.

4060
07:01:39,160 --> 07:01:47,420
They do not absorb it, paving over hydric wetland soil, destroys the natural sponge that prevents

4061
07:01:47,420 --> 07:01:54,700
regional flooding, removing that natural storage channels untreated runoff and shifts long-term

4062
07:01:54,700 --> 07:02:02,500
flood liability directly onto the taxpayers. Furthermore, stable palm road remains a narrow

4063
07:02:02,500 --> 07:02:09,580
two-lane, dead-end, stripping out previously promised infrastructure improvements,

4064
07:02:09,580 --> 07:02:15,640
creates severe hazards for daily traffic and emergency wildfire evacuations.

4065
07:02:16,900 --> 07:02:21,740
Fifth, this request violates the PUD criterion 20.

4066
07:02:22,340 --> 07:02:29,380
For decades, this property enjoyed low-agric cultural tax rates intended for land

4067
07:02:29,380 --> 07:02:36,200
preservation preservation, reimagining it now for commercial gain grants and

4068
07:02:36,200 --> 07:02:41,160
warranted special privilege that directly threatens public welfare.

4069
07:02:42,080 --> 07:02:45,020
Every zoning decision sets a policy precedent.

4070
07:02:45,620 --> 07:02:51,000
If you grant a commercial exception inside a conservation sending area, you break the

4071
07:02:51,000 --> 07:02:55,880
contract with every property owner who complied with our growth management plan.

4072
07:02:56,440 --> 07:03:02,280
You signal to every developer in Southwest Florida that our highest environmental protections

4073
07:03:02,280 --> 07:03:05,540
are negotiable if they hold out long enough.

4074
07:03:05,540 --> 07:03:15,860
If you have full legal authority under PUD criterion 20 to protect public welfare, over private speculative gain,

4075
07:03:17,080 --> 07:03:29,160
I urge you to stand up for our water, our wildlife, our infrastructure, and our land use integrity. Please vote no, and thank you very much.

4076
07:03:29,160 --> 07:03:36,400
Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Sergei Kelly followed by Cody Davis.

4077
07:04:00,100 --> 07:04:03,220
Okay, perfect. Great to be here and great to see you guys all again.

4078
07:04:03,320 --> 07:04:10,820
It is a simple no on this development is the Everglades and you cannot exchange your own wild Florida for a golf course.

4079
07:04:10,920 --> 07:04:13,960
It will never be a fair substitute for the more.

4080
07:04:14,120 --> 07:04:19,520
We do obviously thank you for denying the housing proposal because obviously that's easily much much worse.

4081
07:04:19,520 --> 07:04:31,700
However, these transient cottages, which are just houses on the golf course, which currently would allow up to four for the whole 169 acres, would they want 10 and they would be

4082
07:04:31,700 --> 07:04:37,200
Pernet buildings, this would not be something that disappears at night or when the animals come by the house has gone for some reason.

4083
07:04:37,640 --> 07:04:43,160
Furthermore, the golf course has to be padded down, you're going to be moving substrate, moving the water around.

4084
07:04:43,160 --> 07:04:47,000
There's going to be chemicals, this is not just you pull up with the golf cart,

4085
07:04:47,000 --> 07:04:50,940
wraps and golf clubs, and you go out with the Panthers, deer, and boar, and go see

4086
07:04:50,940 --> 07:04:51,780
them while you play golf.

4087
07:04:51,960 --> 07:04:52,820
That's now what this is.

4088
07:04:53,160 --> 07:04:57,980
Furthermore, the area is always going to have water problems or water on it, because it is

4089
07:04:57,980 --> 07:04:58,540
the Everglades.

4090
07:04:58,700 --> 07:05:02,960
And the fact that it's surrounded by north, south, east, and west of the Everglades and

4091
07:05:02,960 --> 07:05:08,180
conservation lands that you guys designated should be protected forever.

4092
07:05:08,640 --> 07:05:12,600
Furthermore, I think the fact that the developer did not show up with an actual golf course

4093
07:05:12,600 --> 07:05:17,100
plan for the golf course development they put forward as a golf course shows a lot more

4094
07:05:17,100 --> 07:05:21,560
that there isn't necessarily maybe a golf course they want. They just need some new designation

4095
07:05:21,560 --> 07:05:26,360
of classification which could open up the doors we've seen time and time again where a developer

4096
07:05:26,360 --> 07:05:31,920
usually doesn't have maybe the most directive intentions and obviously we know what a law can be

4097
07:05:31,920 --> 07:05:37,860
very friendly to developers. Furthermore, I did not see a species impact or an assessment really

4098
07:05:37,860 --> 07:05:41,760
given just some talk about there could be deer or borrower on there, which didn't only

4099
07:05:41,760 --> 07:05:44,040
know the signs behind that furthermore.

4100
07:05:44,540 --> 07:05:50,840
If conservation collier had been fully funded and 29.3 million had not been taken in 2023,

4101
07:05:51,580 --> 07:05:54,280
perhaps there could have been the funds to actually acquire this property.

4102
07:05:54,820 --> 07:05:55,640
Obviously, yes.

4103
07:05:55,840 --> 07:05:56,860
I've been out to that site.

4104
07:05:57,000 --> 07:05:57,640
I've looked at it.

4105
07:05:57,780 --> 07:06:02,200
It's not, you know, it says peak for steam ever glades because part of it was a citrus

4106
07:06:02,200 --> 07:06:02,460
growth.

4107
07:06:02,500 --> 07:06:07,360
However, as it stands today, it's far better than a golf course and could be very easily

4108
07:06:07,360 --> 07:06:12,580
many terms re-wilded or allowed to be agriculture, but definitely not a golf course.

4109
07:06:13,000 --> 07:06:17,300
Furthermore, whether you agree or not with people here or if it should be the Everglades,

4110
07:06:17,460 --> 07:06:20,560
it's not the Everglades, it should only be protected if it's part of a state force,

4111
07:06:20,600 --> 07:06:25,800
the official designation. It should be more of what do the people want. If everyone here essentially

4112
07:06:25,800 --> 07:06:31,660
wants it to be either agricultural, not reclassified or wild, that should be the will and that should

4113
07:06:31,660 --> 07:06:36,620
what's done. Furthermore, we need thirty-seven.

4114
07:06:37,500 --> 07:06:42,420
Furthermore, yes, there are private property rights, however, the private property rights of one

4115
07:06:42,420 --> 07:06:47,880
owner is not the same as the private property owner, extinguishing their rights and giving it

4116
07:06:47,880 --> 07:06:52,740
to another person entirely or another corporation entirely to do a whole mother use of the land.

4117
07:06:53,060 --> 07:06:57,400
It's not the same person doing the same thing on the land when they're bringing houses or golf

4118
07:06:57,400 --> 07:07:04,800
So their property rights have ended and then new ones be getting and that's what we're deciding it's not trying to impede on their rights as we do want to respect

4119
07:07:04,800 --> 07:07:08,560
And please vote no on this and hyper club

4120
07:07:10,860 --> 07:07:16,870
Our next registered speaker is Cody Davis followed by Christine Briggs

4121
07:07:18,030 --> 07:07:28,310
Hi, my name's Cody Davis the county attorney's office wrote up a very important memo regarding the potential application of the live local act on this proposed CFPUD

4122
07:07:28,870 --> 07:07:29,550
in the memo.

4123
07:07:30,000 --> 07:07:37,060
It highlights the fact that this project is structured in a way that would grant local eligibility if approved in its current form.

4124
07:07:37,660 --> 07:07:42,660
This would allow 4,225 units to be built on this property by right.

4125
07:07:43,660 --> 07:07:47,940
Three potential options were suggested for altering the proposal to disallow this.

4126
07:07:48,520 --> 07:07:54,140
The county attorney indicated he was not sure whether the first proposal, restrictive covenants who did the deeds.

4127
07:07:54,340 --> 07:07:56,600
The deed restrictions would hold up in court.

4128
07:07:56,600 --> 07:08:01,620
Proposal number two was characterized as retaining the RF mud receiving land designation.

4129
07:08:02,100 --> 07:08:06,760
This appears to be an error since county staff have repeatedly described the parcel as sending land.

4130
07:08:07,580 --> 07:08:13,120
The third option is the only one proposed by the memo in which the board could have confidence it would stand up in court.

4131
07:08:14,020 --> 07:08:20,240
This option consists of conditioning approval on applying a conservation easement over the entire CFPUD.

4132
07:08:20,880 --> 07:08:25,280
Additionally, in the executive summary for this item, the county attorney suggested not

4133
07:08:25,280 --> 07:08:29,860
approving the cottages could resolve the issue, but his own office's memo contradicts

4134
07:08:29,860 --> 07:08:30,540
him.

4135
07:08:30,660 --> 07:08:35,720
Quote, the sale of golf memberships, payment for golf, rental of golf carts, and rental

4136
07:08:35,720 --> 07:08:41,380
of the cabins slash gas cottages, among other for-profit uses, our commercial activities

4137
07:08:41,380 --> 07:08:44,800
under the definition of commercial use under the Live Local Act.

4138
07:08:44,800 --> 07:08:53,620
The proposed CFPUD would qualify as a commercial use in a planned unit development under the act and would be eligible for live-local development.

4139
07:08:54,600 --> 07:08:57,900
The property currently is not eligible and staff agrees.

4140
07:08:58,540 --> 07:09:06,000
The applicant's attorney is bluffing when he threatens to appeal staff's decision regarding the current in-applicability of the act if his client doesn't get their way.

4141
07:09:06,000 --> 07:09:13,560
The RF Month's sending land designation was made prior to July 1st, 2026, so the pre-emptions

4142
07:09:13,560 --> 07:09:16,600
of the act do not apply to this land in its current state.

4143
07:09:17,300 --> 07:09:21,860
Additionally, the property owner, according to his longtime neighbor, Jennifer Asling's

4144
07:09:21,860 --> 07:09:26,960
sworn testimony that we heard a moment ago, knew that his property was being placed in

4145
07:09:26,960 --> 07:09:28,720
the RF Month back in 2002.

4146
07:09:30,100 --> 07:09:35,340
Altogether, this entire proposal in its current state is a convoluted scheme to get the

4147
07:09:35,340 --> 07:09:40,580
missioners to approve the same sprawl that they rejected in January by leveraging the preemptions

4148
07:09:40,580 --> 07:09:47,020
of the Live Local Act. This is not a golf course, it's 4,000 plus units. I urge the

4149
07:09:47,020 --> 07:09:51,680
commissioners to reject this project again. Thank you.

4150
07:09:51,860 --> 07:09:57,440
Thank you. Our next registered speaker is Christine Briggs. Christine has what appears

4151
07:09:57,440 --> 07:10:04,280
to be two people seeding time to her, Lonnie, Lonnie Attten, and Connie Randolph.

4152
07:10:06,400 --> 07:10:06,540
I should.

4153
07:10:06,740 --> 07:10:07,680
I should be back there.

4154
07:10:07,720 --> 07:10:08,260
Thank you, Connie.

4155
07:10:09,040 --> 07:10:10,540
Christine, you will have nine minutes.

4156
07:10:13,200 --> 07:10:17,980
Thank you for being willing to hear everyone's concerns.

4157
07:10:18,780 --> 07:10:23,400
I have been so impressed with the comments that others have made,

4158
07:10:23,920 --> 07:10:28,800
and I do want to express appreciation to our commissioner.

4159
07:10:28,800 --> 07:10:35,320
I'm in Barona Walk to Brickle Castro for trying to find other options.

4160
07:10:36,560 --> 07:10:40,060
He came to Barona Walk and he heard us.

4161
07:10:40,780 --> 07:10:48,060
We had an amazing turnout for his presentation and I think he was well aware that the vast

4162
07:10:48,060 --> 07:10:55,620
majority of people were opposed to development, whether the development is something so

4163
07:10:55,620 --> 07:11:03,880
and obvious is 423 homes, or whether it's disguised as the Audubon International Golf Course.

4164
07:11:04,680 --> 07:11:13,160
In my ideal, perhaps, dream world, all five of you will vote no to changing this.

4165
07:11:15,760 --> 07:11:23,660
Others had powerfully described the environmental and legal drawbacks for approving a golf course.

4166
07:11:23,660 --> 07:11:30,920
Their most compelling argument that we heard so many express, and I know that you fear

4167
07:11:30,920 --> 07:11:37,480
because of the questions that you asked your attorney, is that the live local act, which

4168
07:11:37,480 --> 07:11:44,560
ironically does exactly the opposite of what it says, takes away all the power from the local

4169
07:11:44,560 --> 07:11:49,640
commissioners, would be used if we have those 10 cabanas.

4170
07:11:50,400 --> 07:11:55,180
I'd like to approach this whole issue from a different angle.

4171
07:11:56,080 --> 07:11:59,840
As elected public servants, I know your job isn't easy.

4172
07:12:00,540 --> 07:12:07,780
Many of you work over time, including our commissioner, answering emails, a few of

4173
07:12:07,780 --> 07:12:10,640
which could possibly be annoying or redundant.

4174
07:12:18,530 --> 07:12:31,920
But which decision that of a golf course or to turn down this request to change the growth

4175
07:12:31,920 --> 07:12:41,440
management plan most closely aligns with your responsibilities to fulfill voter mandates

4176
07:12:41,440 --> 07:12:45,140
and honor public fiduciary trust.

4177
07:12:46,220 --> 07:12:54,280
Which decision most clearly benefits the 400,000 residents of Kauir County is opposed to

4178
07:12:54,280 --> 07:13:02,000
the five-sours of the Sable Palm Grove according to the officially sanctioned Kauir County

4179
07:13:02,000 --> 07:13:13,440
community assessment. More than 250,000 residents are deeply concerned about managing growth

4180
07:13:13,440 --> 07:13:20,380
and development. That was their second greatest concern. Their third was protecting the

4181
07:13:20,380 --> 07:13:33,220
environment. In 2020, a decisive 76.5% majority, or over 150,000 residents voted to support

4182
07:13:33,220 --> 07:13:41,980
conservation call you, do we need more indicators that the environment, the beauty of

4183
07:13:41,980 --> 07:13:49,620
Naples is what draws the tourists. Not just those of us who became permanent residents

4184
07:13:49,620 --> 07:13:59,360
a dozen years ago like I did. And if you do your research, if you just look at AI, it says

4185
07:13:59,360 --> 07:14:07,680
we get more income from our tourist money, from our tourist taxes than we do from other

4186
07:14:07,680 --> 07:14:18,600
sources. So why not continue to nurture what has made, call your county so unique?

4187
07:14:24,940 --> 07:14:25,680
The argument

4188
07:14:25,680 --> 07:14:32,240
has been made that the sellers didn't, that the Orange Grove owners didn't know they were

4189
07:14:32,240 --> 07:14:42,700
getting sending land. They purchased 169 acres in 1979. For probably less than 100,000, the

4190
07:14:42,700 --> 07:14:49,800
purchase prices and available online, but that's what AI says. They are benefited for decades

4191
07:14:49,800 --> 07:14:58,220
from Florida's Green Belt Law, which grants an agricultural classification and ensures substantially

4192
07:14:58,220 --> 07:14:59,860
lower property taxes.

4193
07:15:00,180 --> 07:15:09,920
It is less likely that they would have easily qualified for that sending agricultural qualification.

4194
07:15:10,860 --> 07:15:23,300
If they had not been sending. So in other words, one of the reasons I think it was not contested is that they saw the benefits of being designated as sending,

4195
07:15:23,300 --> 07:15:31,180
because it ensured that they would more easily get the agricultural property tax.

4196
07:15:32,800 --> 07:15:44,960
I do believe as someone who has personally patronized the growth for the last 12 years and spent

4197
07:15:44,960 --> 07:15:54,680
over about $2,000 sending citrus packages to all my relatives in the north that I left behind,

4198
07:15:55,320 --> 07:15:59,920
that I think the Orange Grove has been a profitable business for them.

4199
07:16:03,750 --> 07:16:11,090
If it wasn't, wouldn't they have sold their transfer of development rights by now if they were in need of money?

4200
07:16:12,210 --> 07:16:20,770
So, how are they repaying the thousands of residents who have supported their growth?

4201
07:16:21,550 --> 07:16:28,650
Even when we knew citrus-greening had taken most of it down, the residents that are nearby

4202
07:16:28,650 --> 07:16:31,990
and we do not want to see this area developed.

4203
07:16:31,990 --> 07:16:33,390
So,

4204
07:16:38,830 --> 07:16:46,330
I do value private property, even though I wanted those unfortunate people who bought

4205
07:16:46,330 --> 07:16:50,930
a home in 2003 and sold it for much less later.

4206
07:16:52,190 --> 07:16:55,830
But that's part of the American dream, I get it.

4207
07:16:55,970 --> 07:16:57,570
But they have other offers.

4208
07:17:00,690 --> 07:17:08,070
If you don't approve this, that will bring maybe a change of heart.

4209
07:17:08,070 --> 07:17:37,750
Who knows? They could be like the like-murvin-radabal, who is he? He's a farmer in Pennsylvania, who despite having four children and many grandchildren turned down 15.7 million dollars and accepted 1.9 million to sell his development rights to the Lancaster Farmland Trust, ensuring the land remains.

4210
07:17:37,750 --> 07:17:45,510
active farm land forever. If you refuse to approve the golf course, the

4211
07:17:45,510 --> 07:17:51,010
stable Palm Salars can still maximize the economic return by double dipping,

4212
07:17:51,530 --> 07:17:55,610
severing and selling their transfer of development rights and credits to

4213
07:17:55,610 --> 07:18:00,590
private buyers first while retaining the underlying land title to sell

4214
07:18:00,590 --> 07:18:05,910
separately to conservation kaya, that might generate additional millions to

4215
07:18:05,910 --> 07:18:08,730
sweeten the offer by conservation calyer.

4216
07:18:13,330 --> 07:18:16,930
If you reject the golf course and this is where

4217
07:18:16,930 --> 07:18:22,730
I'm going to ask all of you as commissioners and I'm going to digress from my script a

4218
07:18:22,730 --> 07:18:29,470
little bit. You did something amazing in a broccoli with belly violence.

4219
07:18:39,110 --> 07:18:39,790
I don't know

4220
07:18:39,790 --> 07:18:47,070
a million dollar land acquisition and a lot of it was set aside for conservation

4221
07:18:47,070 --> 07:18:53,110
value compared with conservation value. So why not do the same and one last

4222
07:18:53,110 --> 07:18:59,270
idea explore other options why not create the first statewide park with a

4223
07:18:59,270 --> 07:19:04,470
working educational citrus growth. I bet we could get support from Ben

4224
07:19:04,470 --> 07:19:13,670
who, by the way, managed to have our legislature dedicate more than 320 million to promote

4225
07:19:13,670 --> 07:19:19,090
for the citrus growth. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have part of it be conservation

4226
07:19:19,090 --> 07:19:24,170
color and the other and educational citrus growth that we could all enjoy. Thank you for your

4227
07:19:24,170 --> 07:19:28,950
patience. Thank you. Mr. Chair, your next registered speakers,

4228
07:19:28,950 --> 07:19:30,290
Bridget Washburn.

4229
07:19:33,950 --> 07:19:37,430
Bridget has a speaker-seeding time or a subfigure all.

4230
07:19:39,450 --> 07:19:43,730
Hi, good afternoon commissioners. Bridget Washburn, executive director of Audubon

4231
07:19:43,730 --> 07:19:45,690
Western Everglades, thanks for the time.

4232
07:19:46,890 --> 07:19:52,170
I'm here to urge you to deny this golf course proposal at 341 Sable Palm Road.

4233
07:19:52,810 --> 07:19:56,890
This property is surrounded by permanent conservation lands and sits within the Bell

4234
07:19:56,890 --> 07:20:03,730
hydrological enhancement overlay which all add to its ecological value. So water passing through

4235
07:20:03,730 --> 07:20:09,050
this property flows all the way to Recrebe and it could be carrying fertilizer, pesticide,

4236
07:20:09,050 --> 07:20:14,590
and other runoff with it. The point being, this property is important not just because of its location

4237
07:20:14,590 --> 07:20:19,830
but because of its role and a much larger conservation in hydrological landscape.

4238
07:20:21,050 --> 07:20:25,830
Due to the resource intensive nature of golf courses and the amenities proposed along with this

4239
07:20:25,830 --> 07:20:30,230
development, we do not see it as a viable conservation compatible option.

4240
07:20:31,050 --> 07:20:36,050
Golf courses generally require lots of fertilizer and irrigation, like other folks have pointed out.

4241
07:20:37,610 --> 07:20:41,170
And that means the impact can reach far beyond the property's footprint.

4242
07:20:41,870 --> 07:20:46,590
And it's current zoning, ascending land, and the county's rural-friendly mixed-use district

4243
07:20:46,590 --> 07:20:49,650
recognizes this area is not suitable for development.

4244
07:20:50,710 --> 07:20:55,590
So speaking to that zoning, as other people have also done, the rural-friendly mixed-use district

4245
07:20:55,590 --> 07:21:01,930
covers around 77,000 acres and call your county and was designed to support local sustainability

4246
07:21:01,930 --> 07:21:04,030
through mindful growth management.

4247
07:21:04,630 --> 07:21:09,090
It directs development away from ecologically sensitive areas or sending lands, including

4248
07:21:09,090 --> 07:21:14,250
this property, towards more appropriate locations that are able to handle housing and

4249
07:21:14,250 --> 07:21:14,930
other development.

4250
07:21:16,470 --> 07:21:21,870
Today, this transfer of development rights program has protected over 7,800 acres on

4251
07:21:21,870 --> 07:21:30,070
$470 properties for around the value of $58 million so it's working, but the framework depends

4252
07:21:30,070 --> 07:21:36,110
on consistency and maintaining existing policies, including upholding the sending and receiving

4253
07:21:36,110 --> 07:21:41,030
designations. It also seems we're saying the Coyour County's Royal French McFews District

4254
07:21:41,030 --> 07:21:46,070
was not created in isolation. That's the result of a county-wide planning and environmental assessment

4255
07:21:46,070 --> 07:21:50,830
that ran from 1999 to 2002 with lots of public input.

4256
07:21:51,450 --> 07:21:54,010
The study looked at the county's large rural areas,

4257
07:21:54,270 --> 07:21:57,630
Aglands, environmentally sensitive lands, wildlife habitat,

4258
07:21:58,090 --> 07:22:00,910
along with anticipated development pressures.

4259
07:22:01,830 --> 07:22:04,110
And so all this data analysis informed amendments

4260
07:22:04,110 --> 07:22:06,490
to the 2002 Proc Management Plan.

4261
07:22:07,090 --> 07:22:08,730
All of this was transparent, equitable,

4262
07:22:08,970 --> 07:22:11,050
and included public workshops, public meetings,

4263
07:22:11,550 --> 07:22:13,810
appointed committees, technical working groups,

4264
07:22:13,810 --> 07:22:17,230
integration of the Environmental Advisory Council, the

4265
07:22:17,230 --> 07:22:20,190
Collier County Planning Commission, and even some state and

4266
07:22:20,190 --> 07:22:24,330
regional agencies, allowing construction of a golf course and

4267
07:22:24,330 --> 07:22:28,110
other structures, and the amenities that might come with them on

4268
07:22:28,110 --> 07:22:29,870
sending lands would undermine the purpose.

4269
07:22:30,000 --> 07:22:39,640
And the integrity of a well-established planning process and this framework, instead of precedent, that opens the door to landowners who might seek similar exemptions in the future.

4270
07:22:40,540 --> 07:22:43,680
So the decision before you today is about more than one property.

4271
07:22:44,160 --> 07:22:52,260
It's about upholding the integrity of the royal fringe mixed use district and protecting public conservation lands and waters from incompatible development.

4272
07:22:52,960 --> 07:22:55,920
I also want to thank you for pursuing the conservation collar option.

4273
07:22:55,920 --> 07:23:01,720
It did provide a fair alternative to the landowner, which is very important, third decision

4274
07:23:01,720 --> 07:23:03,660
not to accept it.

4275
07:23:03,660 --> 07:23:07,360
So we're asking you to say no to this private golf course proposal.

4276
07:23:07,500 --> 07:23:11,640
We're asking you to protect the public interest and surrounding conservation lands and

4277
07:23:11,640 --> 07:23:17,740
waters, including Recrebe, so you all recognize this morning's a well-loved public resource.

4278
07:23:18,300 --> 07:23:23,280
We urge you to use today's decision as an opportunity to preserve one of our most environmentally

4279
07:23:23,280 --> 07:23:29,240
important zoning designations that allows us to balance development with conservation and sustain

4280
07:23:29,240 --> 07:23:34,820
the quality of life here in Coyour County. Thank you. Thank you. Our next registered speaker is

4281
07:23:34,820 --> 07:23:36,300
Gwen Ranzo.

4282
07:23:38,320 --> 07:23:46,700
Gwen has additional speakers seeing time. Wayne Barrick and Gene Pollam.

4283
07:23:50,770 --> 07:23:56,310
Gene Pollam, I'm hoping to say that. I think she loves. Okay. Thank you.

4284
07:23:56,310 --> 07:23:58,450
Gwen, you'll have six minutes.

4285
07:23:58,910 --> 07:23:59,330
Thank you.

4286
07:23:59,450 --> 07:23:59,910
Good afternoon.

4287
07:24:01,250 --> 07:24:02,310
My name is Gwen Randson.

4288
07:24:03,830 --> 07:24:07,770
There is not a need or a demand for a golf course on stable palm road.

4289
07:24:08,230 --> 07:24:13,070
I never heard of people going homeless or starving because a private golf course was not built.

4290
07:24:14,090 --> 07:24:17,510
There are 90 golf clubs in Naples and 21 are private.

4291
07:24:18,170 --> 07:24:21,590
14 are less than five miles from stable palm.

4292
07:24:21,590 --> 07:24:26,630
This road is a two-lane side street that is not conducive to handling traffic.

4293
07:24:27,890 --> 07:24:30,410
They state there will not be heavy traffic, how so.

4294
07:24:30,910 --> 07:24:36,350
There will be hundreds of members, guests, employees, and vendors driving on stablepong.

4295
07:24:37,470 --> 07:24:44,450
This project will increase pollution and noise levels with cars, commercial trucks, and around 850 people.

4296
07:24:45,150 --> 07:24:47,230
These are all negative effects on our neighborhoods.

4297
07:24:47,230 --> 07:24:56,280
High Biscuits Golf Club is 6.1 miles from the location, which will be an exclusive private

4298
07:24:56,280 --> 07:25:04,780
golf club. Clubhouse, six guest colleges and 18-hole championship course, excuse me. An 18-hole

4299
07:25:04,780 --> 07:25:13,120
championship course expected to be operational by late 2028. I'm asking you please to vote

4300
07:25:13,120 --> 07:25:19,080
Commissioner Hall and Saunders, you saved our neighborhoods last time.

4301
07:25:19,820 --> 07:25:21,780
I'm asking you please to say no again.

4302
07:25:22,920 --> 07:25:25,500
Commissioner LaCastro, McDaniel, and Cal.

4303
07:25:26,120 --> 07:25:27,580
This is not the only option.

4304
07:25:29,060 --> 07:25:31,620
The property was never publicly listed for sale.

4305
07:25:32,360 --> 07:25:38,120
The land can be listed for sale to the public as sending agricultural land.

4306
07:25:38,520 --> 07:25:39,960
We are the Sunshine State.

4307
07:25:41,460 --> 07:25:45,620
Fruit, vegetables, trees, and plants are all lucrative businesses.

4308
07:25:46,780 --> 07:25:49,500
Once the land is re-zone, there's no turning back.

4309
07:25:50,220 --> 07:25:53,320
The land is rare, and not much of us exist in the Naples.

4310
07:25:54,640 --> 07:26:02,180
At the last hearing on August 20th, rich state, there's not any – there was not any panther

4311
07:26:02,180 --> 07:26:03,780
activity at Citrus Grove.

4312
07:26:03,780 --> 07:26:10,640
Where is the documentation from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service where a newsial party?

4313
07:26:12,500 --> 07:26:18,300
FCW did confirm that the property is within the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services primary

4314
07:26:18,300 --> 07:26:21,060
Florida Panthers are focused area.

4315
07:26:22,440 --> 07:26:27,120
And that the Panther protections are handled through U.S.F.W.S.

4316
07:26:27,340 --> 07:26:30,160
and the appropriate federal review and permit process.

4317
07:26:30,700 --> 07:26:36,900
At this time, I would like to show you videos of Panthers from Kareena Court, which is around

4318
07:26:36,900 --> 07:26:41,620
3.1 miles from 3-4-1 stable palm.

4319
07:26:41,900 --> 07:26:42,660
Now that's driving.

4320
07:26:43,460 --> 07:26:44,100
I'm a panther.

4321
07:26:44,220 --> 07:26:44,940
I'm in the woods.

4322
07:26:45,280 --> 07:26:45,960
I'm walking, right?

4323
07:26:46,120 --> 07:26:46,900
So it's closer.

4324
07:26:47,500 --> 07:26:49,820
I'm cutting like an up and around and down.

4325
07:26:50,240 --> 07:26:50,940
I'm cutting right through.

4326
07:26:57,170 --> 07:26:59,910
So I won't give it heads up because the videos are pretty fast.

4327
07:27:00,130 --> 07:27:03,090
So I want to show you where to look before he hits play.

4328
07:27:03,490 --> 07:27:04,210
Well, this is beautiful.

4329
07:27:04,210 --> 07:27:13,090
So this verse first one is video number one this was May 4, 2025 look to the left bottom

4330
07:27:13,090 --> 07:27:19,640
corner and I also want you to see that they're different the size this one was the largest

4331
07:27:19,640 --> 07:27:24,140
one so therefore I think it's a male video number two

4332
07:27:28,740 --> 07:27:31,200
look to the right look to the left

4333
07:27:31,200 --> 07:27:37,320
now look to the right bottom corner three it's a mother with two juveniles when was this

4334
07:27:37,320 --> 07:27:49,060
taken? This was taken January 23rd, 2026, that was 8 months ago. Video number 3

4335
07:27:52,840 --> 07:27:53,740
looked to the

4336
07:27:53,740 --> 07:27:58,940
right, okay, yeah. So, see to the right and it's traveling down. This was taking September

4337
07:28:00,000 --> 07:28:10,620
13th, 2026, 9 days ago. Oh, I'm not done. Video number 4. Last night.

4338
07:28:15,520 --> 07:28:16,120
Two of them. See,

4339
07:28:16,120 --> 07:28:19,300
There's one, and there's two.

4340
07:28:20,040 --> 07:28:21,420
We need to play it again.

4341
07:28:22,000 --> 07:28:25,340
Last, and that'll, looks like a mother and a juvenile.

4342
07:28:27,420 --> 07:28:28,520
If you share the map, please.

4343
07:28:29,080 --> 07:28:31,200
Now I want to show you where this area is.

4344
07:28:39,280 --> 07:28:41,020
So, like I said, it's Karina Court.

4345
07:28:41,860 --> 07:28:43,820
And Karina Court is, if you're in a car,

4346
07:28:43,980 --> 07:28:45,240
3.1 miles.

4347
07:28:46,000 --> 07:28:48,740
If you're a panther, it's a lot faster because you're going right through the woods.

4348
07:28:49,420 --> 07:28:56,840
Korean Accord is in Verona Walk and I live there and I walk around development every day.

4349
07:28:56,960 --> 07:29:02,440
I love it. On the south side, there's all the houses and that's where I live and you

4350
07:29:02,440 --> 07:29:07,640
can share them out whenever you're ready. And when you're walking on the south side, the

4351
07:29:07,640 --> 07:29:14,480
other side is Sabel Palm Road. They all come out. I have so many more videos and photos of

4352
07:29:14,480 --> 07:29:20,340
of deer, of wild turkey, there's all animals back there. I'm not here from my

4353
07:29:20,340 --> 07:29:23,640
health. This is the fourth day I took off from work to be here. Every here

4354
07:29:23,640 --> 07:29:30,040
and I've been here. They're all back there. Another thing is this is where I live.

4355
07:29:30,080 --> 07:29:35,700
This is where we live. It is so peaceful. It is so quiet. It is so nice. This is

4356
07:29:35,700 --> 07:29:40,080
all the way down a side street. And all we're going to hear now are commercial

4357
07:29:40,080 --> 07:29:46,540
trucks and cars and have it. It's not right. Can you get the map? Okay, well he can't get

4358
07:29:46,540 --> 07:29:52,220
the map. So I'm going to pretend. Here is Korea. Alright, so here's Korean Accord. This is

4359
07:29:52,220 --> 07:29:59,920
going to walk. Here's the side. Here's a stable pump. Up and around and down. A stable pump. I'm a

4360
07:30:01,860 --> 07:30:02,520
Goodbye.

4361
07:30:02,520 --> 07:30:07,000
Your tells me there's no Panthers on that land where's the proof?

4362
07:30:10,600 --> 07:30:11,480
Thank you.

4363
07:30:15,530 --> 07:30:17,610
Our next registered speaker is Brad Cornell.

4364
07:30:18,730 --> 07:30:22,880
Brad has a speaker's evening times him brooks brook beardsey.

4365
07:30:26,950 --> 07:30:29,790
Brad, you will have six minutes and he will be followed by

4366
07:30:30,610 --> 07:30:31,830
Janice Gawes.

4367
07:30:32,090 --> 07:30:33,230
Cheers Gawes!

4368
07:30:35,890 --> 07:30:36,290
Good afternoon.

4369
07:30:36,710 --> 07:30:39,650
I'm Brad Cornell and I'm here on behalf of Otobun Florida.

4370
07:30:39,650 --> 07:30:43,810
I'm usually talking for out-of-investor neighborhoods, but in this case I'm talking

4371
07:30:43,810 --> 07:30:48,450
for out-of-in-floor and it's corkscrew, so I'm sanctuary, I'm their south-less

4372
07:30:48,450 --> 07:30:49,910
Florida policy associate.

4373
07:30:51,350 --> 07:30:55,130
Out-of-in-floor deposits this proposed growth management plan amendment and

4374
07:30:55,130 --> 07:31:01,590
rezone for an urban golf course with 10 transient guesthouses, clubhouse, and significant

4375
07:31:01,590 --> 07:31:04,390
irrigation and fertilizer pollution on the golf course.

4376
07:31:04,390 --> 07:31:09,370
On the basis of creating a comprehensive planning, regional failure,

4377
07:31:10,010 --> 07:31:12,390
contrary to the interests of Collier's citizens.

4378
07:31:13,730 --> 07:31:16,990
The site was designated as Roll French Mixed Use District,

4379
07:31:17,470 --> 07:31:21,190
sending a natural resource protection area in 2002.

4380
07:31:22,190 --> 07:31:25,910
And the overall Roll French Mixed Use District plan was challenged

4381
07:31:25,910 --> 07:31:28,390
in administrative court in 2003.

4382
07:31:28,790 --> 07:31:31,630
It was successfully defended by Collier County,

4383
07:31:31,630 --> 07:31:42,350
The state of Florida, Audubon-Western Everglades, and Florida Wildlife Federation, and was prominently reported in all the papers and news media at the time.

4384
07:31:43,650 --> 07:31:51,570
The science-based habitat mapping was confirmed, which showed conservation lands in the real French mixed-use district and across Florida,

4385
07:31:51,570 --> 07:31:56,210
are a mosaic of agricultural and native habitats.

4386
07:31:56,570 --> 07:31:59,550
This citrus grove is surrounded, as you have heard,

4387
07:31:59,690 --> 07:32:02,310
by permanent conservation on all sides,

4388
07:32:02,970 --> 07:32:07,230
including the 74,000 acres of Bickeun Strand State Forest.

4389
07:32:08,790 --> 07:32:11,510
Also, this site and the region have suffered

4390
07:32:11,510 --> 07:32:15,870
from hydrologic impacts, the damning of flowways by the road,

4391
07:32:16,370 --> 07:32:18,630
and over drainage, resulting in exotics,

4392
07:32:18,630 --> 07:32:32,750
And catastrophic wildfires, at least three times in the last two years, that threatened human communities, as well as federally endangered red-cuckated woodpecker habitat, pines, and panther habitats.

4393
07:32:33,770 --> 07:32:40,710
There must be hydrologic restoration to improve this whole region, including this 169 acres site.

4394
07:32:40,710 --> 07:32:46,510
That needed restoration is not golf course storm water lakes.

4395
07:32:46,930 --> 07:32:50,930
It must include the berms being taken down ditches,

4396
07:32:51,130 --> 07:32:55,510
stable palm road, and culverts, and restored flowways.

4397
07:32:55,950 --> 07:33:01,170
This is the watershed of recovery bay, as we've all been paying attention to.

4398
07:33:01,570 --> 07:33:08,150
Also, any golf course should be landscaped only with native plants outside of the fairways.

4399
07:33:08,150 --> 07:33:16,390
that's a really important strategy for building a habitat-friendly golf course.

4400
07:33:17,410 --> 07:33:22,270
Finally, there is a significant risk that eliminating the comprehensive plan

4401
07:33:22,270 --> 07:33:28,410
designations for conservation, sending, and NRPA will make this site vulnerable to future

4402
07:33:28,410 --> 07:33:32,830
conversion of the urban golf course to more intense residential development.

4403
07:33:33,530 --> 07:33:36,490
That is a risk the county should not take.

4404
07:33:36,490 --> 07:33:42,890
The better alternative would have been the application the landowners made to conservation

4405
07:33:42,890 --> 07:33:49,630
collier where the county made an offer based on the current zoning appraised value.

4406
07:33:50,010 --> 07:33:54,090
It's unfortunate that they rejected that before even learning what would happen today.

4407
07:33:54,510 --> 07:33:55,830
I don't know why that happened.

4408
07:33:56,530 --> 07:34:02,790
Audubon Florida strongly urges you not to grant these changes to the growth management plan

4409
07:34:02,790 --> 07:34:05,970
and zoning for this 169 acres.

4410
07:34:06,790 --> 07:34:10,190
One final note, as you've heard a couple of speakers say,

4411
07:34:10,850 --> 07:34:11,890
but since I'm with Audubon,

4412
07:34:11,970 --> 07:34:14,470
I'm going to say this a little more authoritatively.

4413
07:34:14,890 --> 07:34:17,870
Audubon International is not National Audubon Society.

4414
07:34:18,190 --> 07:34:22,150
I'm not saying what they do is good or bad or indifferent,

4415
07:34:22,750 --> 07:34:25,350
but that is not National Audubon Society.

4416
07:34:25,430 --> 07:34:29,590
That is a four-profit golf course certification program.

4417
07:34:30,630 --> 07:34:32,730
Thanks very much for considering our comments.

4418
07:34:32,730 --> 07:34:34,070
Thank you.

4419
07:34:34,530 --> 07:34:36,430
Your next speaker, I apologize.

4420
07:34:37,030 --> 07:34:37,870
Janice Goss.

4421
07:34:38,070 --> 07:34:38,730
Jeras.

4422
07:34:38,730 --> 07:34:39,310
Jeras Goss.

4423
07:34:39,670 --> 07:34:40,370
Jeras, thank you.

4424
07:34:40,890 --> 07:34:43,190
And Jeras will be followed by Dan Shallow.

4425
07:34:43,870 --> 07:34:44,190
Awesome.

4426
07:34:44,570 --> 07:34:45,130
Good afternoon.

4427
07:34:45,770 --> 07:34:49,310
I was born and raised in Florida, and I'm speaking on my own behalf today.

4428
07:34:50,130 --> 07:34:57,570
I respect that the land owners need financially, need a financially workable path,

4429
07:34:57,990 --> 07:35:01,550
and I don't pretend to know everything this property can support.

4430
07:35:01,550 --> 07:35:09,590
But across South Florida we invest tremendous effort and public resources repairing environmental damage after it occurs.

4431
07:35:10,610 --> 07:35:13,850
Prevention must begin with decisions like this one.

4432
07:35:14,610 --> 07:35:23,190
I appreciate hearing the applicants, the applicant consulted conservation organizations and explored alternatives.

4433
07:35:23,190 --> 07:35:43,130
Before making permanent change, please ensure that for record that clearly identifies which alternatives were evaluated, why they were considered infeasible and whether a smaller conservation based use or stronger permanent conservation component remains possible.

4434
07:35:43,130 --> 07:35:50,510
I understand today that a phase one assessment was completed and a phase two was requested.

4435
07:35:51,070 --> 07:35:56,490
If that's sampling and analysis remain unfinished, please do not treat this property.

4436
07:35:57,710 --> 07:36:01,030
The properties and environmental condition as fully settled.

4437
07:36:03,440 --> 07:36:08,620
Panthers do not recognize property lines we draw on maps.

4438
07:36:08,620 --> 07:36:17,160
Protected lands become islands when the pass between them disappear and those connecting lands are lifelines.

4439
07:36:18,000 --> 07:36:24,960
They are living beings already navigating roads, shrinking habitat, and boundaries created by people.

4440
07:36:26,380 --> 07:36:37,960
I feel the community is being asked to change the map before the principal environmental commitments are connected in binding plan.

4441
07:36:37,960 --> 07:36:43,820
The land, water, wildlife and surrounding communities are all part of one living system.

4442
07:36:44,840 --> 07:36:50,120
Because this decision will shape the land for generations, I ask not to approve this permanent

4443
07:36:50,120 --> 07:36:55,960
change unless the proposed environmental benefits are tied to measurable baselines and

4444
07:36:55,960 --> 07:36:59,260
forceful monitoring and binding communities.

4445
07:36:59,880 --> 07:37:00,660
Thank you.

4446
07:37:00,900 --> 07:37:01,960
Thank you.

4447
07:37:01,960 --> 07:37:05,700
Next register speaker is Dan Shala. No, sir. Okay.

4448
07:37:06,000 --> 07:37:07,400
Now you do it.

4449
07:37:12,870 --> 07:37:14,450
You give her second to fix it.

4450
07:37:14,570 --> 07:37:15,070
Sure, she.

4451
07:37:20,160 --> 07:37:21,400
How many speakers we have left?

4452
07:37:22,300 --> 07:37:24,480
Three in the room and seven on Zoom.

4453
07:37:49,250 --> 07:37:57,850
Okay, good. Okay. We have time. Our next registered speaker is Elizabeth Barric, and she will be followed by Keylon Glenn.

4454
07:38:05,140 --> 07:38:05,880
Yes, I'm sorry.

4455
07:38:09,170 --> 07:38:18,390
Hi, good afternoon. My name is Elizabeth Barric. I live in Verona, walk. Thank you for your time and the long patience you're using with all of this talking.

4456
07:38:18,390 --> 07:38:29,910
I wanted to bring a couple of points. People have made a lot of good points and obviously I think no matter how you vote we can all agree there's a lot of risk involved here.

4457
07:38:30,030 --> 07:38:41,110
You know the question is risk versus benefit. Well, I'd like to offer you a visual. The people who are going to benefit from this golf course could all fit in this room.

4458
07:38:43,470 --> 07:38:51,990
265 to 275 members, so there's going to be a very few number of people benefit, a lot

4459
07:38:51,990 --> 07:38:56,390
of people are going to get very rich off this, and there's going to be a lot of risk

4460
07:38:56,390 --> 07:38:57,930
to the rest of us.

4461
07:38:58,450 --> 07:39:01,090
The homeowner does have an option.

4462
07:39:01,490 --> 07:39:04,830
If I sell my house, it's a residential property.

4463
07:39:05,050 --> 07:39:10,890
I sell it as a residential property and I take the hit, whether it's good or bad, I take

4464
07:39:10,890 --> 07:39:17,490
market price. This is agricultural land. The people who bought it knew it was agricultural land

4465
07:39:17,490 --> 07:39:24,070
when they bought it. They've held it all these years. And they can sell it on the open market

4466
07:39:24,070 --> 07:39:30,030
as agricultural land. I've looked for it on the MLS. I've looked for it for sale. I've not seen

4467
07:39:30,030 --> 07:39:38,890
it on the open market. So it's really an unknown what the value of this land is outside of being

4468
07:39:38,890 --> 07:39:54,730
And I think one of the things that concerns me the most is that the golf course developer said that the land never met the qualification should have never been sending land.

4469
07:39:54,730 --> 07:40:03,990
Well, in my mind, it meets all the qualifications, wildlife corridors, crucial habitat,

4470
07:40:06,710 --> 07:40:07,990
wetlands,

4471
07:40:09,770 --> 07:40:15,270
contiguous preserves, and that right there is something that is really a big issue.

4472
07:40:15,570 --> 07:40:21,850
It breaks up the preserves, and although we've had the discussion from the biologist for

4473
07:40:21,850 --> 07:40:30,110
developer about how the golf course is just as beneficial as the archer to Wavla, well,

4474
07:40:30,730 --> 07:40:36,910
are the growth. The difference is the factor that hasn't been discussed is what about all the

4475
07:40:36,910 --> 07:40:42,530
activity on the land. The golf course is going to be busy all the time it's going to increase the

4476
07:40:42,530 --> 07:40:49,690
traffic, agricultural land doesn't have that kind of activity on it, it's calmer, there's fewer people

4477
07:40:49,690 --> 07:40:55,890
And, you know, one question that hasn't been answered, will this be fence to walled?

4478
07:40:55,990 --> 07:41:03,610
I mean, this is like the most wealthy people in our country will be members, but yet, is it going to just be open for wildlife?

4479
07:41:03,930 --> 07:41:07,570
And anybody else, me, if I want to take a walk through it, can I do that?

4480
07:41:08,150 --> 07:41:09,130
I don't know.

4481
07:41:10,130 --> 07:41:10,930
Do you?

4482
07:41:11,170 --> 07:41:11,510
Thank you.

4483
07:41:11,970 --> 07:41:12,650
Thank you.

4484
07:41:13,110 --> 07:41:17,890
Our next registered speaker is Kaylin Glenn, and she will be followed by Stephen Hines.

4485
07:41:18,570 --> 07:41:24,210
Good afternoon commissioners and mine is a baby this time so hopefully this goes a little bit better but great to see y'all again

4486
07:41:24,210 --> 07:41:26,670
I'm equally as tired as I'm sure you are

4487
07:41:26,670 --> 07:41:35,590
My name is Kaylin Glenn and I'm a fifth generation cari county resident and I'm also a conservationist and incoming member on the call your soil and water district

4488
07:41:35,590 --> 07:41:46,190
For seat one and I'm also involved in several other conservation community efforts here locally and much of it is around agriculture at working lands conservation and long term future use of this county

4489
07:41:46,190 --> 07:41:51,210
some speaking from myself today, not for those folks, but I'm sure they aligned with my thoughts.

4490
07:41:51,610 --> 07:41:55,350
My family was here before Carri County was called your county, and I came back here,

4491
07:41:55,370 --> 07:41:59,410
I'm raising my children here, and I'm heavily invested in what this place looks like long term.

4492
07:41:59,870 --> 07:42:04,430
I was here in January and spoke in opposition to the residential proposal on the same property,

4493
07:42:04,710 --> 07:42:09,530
and I appreciated what this board did that day. You spent hours hearing from everyone involved,

4494
07:42:09,550 --> 07:42:14,130
gave the landowners and the developer an opportunity to go back, explore another path,

4495
07:42:14,130 --> 07:42:16,890
instead of moving forward with 423 homes.

4496
07:42:17,410 --> 07:42:20,350
They did, and this proposal is clearly less intense,

4497
07:42:20,430 --> 07:42:22,210
and I give them credit for coming back

4498
07:42:22,210 --> 07:42:22,990
with something different.

4499
07:42:23,390 --> 07:42:24,990
I'm asking you to deny it, though.

4500
07:42:25,310 --> 07:42:27,010
I watched and listened in very intently

4501
07:42:27,010 --> 07:42:29,250
on the August 20th Planning Commission hearing

4502
07:42:29,250 --> 07:42:33,150
and appreciated, seriously, how they vetted it

4503
07:42:33,150 --> 07:42:34,770
and had conversation around it.

4504
07:42:37,670 --> 07:42:40,170
The surrounding landowners, and they spoke heavily

4505
07:42:40,170 --> 07:42:42,130
about this, the environmental concerns,

4506
07:42:42,130 --> 07:42:46,210
the live-local concern and what would happen if this proposal does not move forward.

4507
07:42:46,750 --> 07:42:49,790
A lot of that discussion eventually turned into what might happen next.

4508
07:42:49,970 --> 07:42:53,050
What if this application prevails on the live-local challenge?

4509
07:42:53,450 --> 07:42:54,550
What if the county loses?

4510
07:42:55,050 --> 07:42:57,610
What if something substantially more intense comes back?

4511
07:42:57,810 --> 07:43:01,110
And I understand why that concerns people because it concerns me too.

4512
07:43:01,350 --> 07:43:05,550
County staff have already made its determination and the applicant's live-local request.

4513
07:43:05,730 --> 07:43:07,310
And that determination is being challenged.

4514
07:43:07,310 --> 07:43:18,570
The much higher density scenario discussed the planning commission is not intimate today, but could be potential in the future, and I fear what I'm skipping ahead.

4515
07:43:18,850 --> 07:43:26,170
Commissioner Saunders raised a concern in January that I really want to speak to about what this looks like when we keep piecemeal in the growth management plan.

4516
07:43:26,490 --> 07:43:35,530
The rural fringe was created as a larger framework with how this county manages its transition between urban growth and its agricultural and rural and conservation lands.

4517
07:43:35,530 --> 07:43:42,270
Property rights are part of that framework. I understand that such a screening has what it's done to this grove as someone in agriculture

4518
07:43:42,270 --> 07:43:48,970
And I understand why landowners want to move on. They're all so farmers as we've heard from today and horse owners and

4519
07:43:48,970 --> 07:43:55,250
People who's livelihoods depend on things and within this area that it would add pressure to and what you're being asked now today

4520
07:43:55,250 --> 07:43:59,810
is to not approve the 423 homes, but a golf course with a lot of other oh gosh, okay

4521
07:44:00,450 --> 07:44:02,270
My family's been here for a long time.

4522
07:44:02,290 --> 07:44:04,150
I really appreciate everyone's due diligence,

4523
07:44:04,250 --> 07:44:05,970
but this isn't a great fit for our county.

4524
07:44:06,430 --> 07:44:08,270
And I'm worried about the precedent that it sets

4525
07:44:08,270 --> 07:44:10,970
when we decide to continue to amend the men

4526
07:44:10,970 --> 07:44:12,330
and make changes and allowances.

4527
07:44:12,550 --> 07:44:13,830
And so thank you for your time.

4528
07:44:13,970 --> 07:44:15,410
Thank you.

4529
07:44:15,950 --> 07:44:17,410
Our next speaker is Steven Hines,

4530
07:44:17,650 --> 07:44:19,930
and then we will go to Speaker Zanzu.

4531
07:44:21,610 --> 07:44:22,210
You don't have one

4532
07:44:32,680 --> 07:44:32,840
left.

4533
07:44:33,300 --> 07:44:33,500
Yeah?

4534
07:44:33,940 --> 07:44:34,800
You haven't heard about

4535
07:44:39,760 --> 07:44:40,620
it.

4536
07:44:40,620 --> 07:44:42,260
Anyway, so rather than you're holding up,

4537
07:44:42,360 --> 07:44:42,740
you're holding up, you're holding up, you're holding up.

4538
07:44:42,740 --> 07:44:43,480
I don't want to say it.

4539
07:44:43,580 --> 07:44:46,180
Let him just, let him start the timer for you, sir.

4540
07:44:47,180 --> 07:44:49,660
It's make sure we get it clear, so if we have everybody's speaker slips.

4541
07:44:52,520 --> 07:44:52,740
Who's that?

4542
07:44:52,880 --> 07:44:53,220
A curiosity.

4543
07:44:53,460 --> 07:44:55,580
Did you submit on the other items?

4544
07:44:57,180 --> 07:44:57,580
It's...

4545
07:44:57,580 --> 07:44:59,820
I believe they're working enough of the...

4546
07:45:03,620 --> 07:45:10,660
The speaker slips had been removed because the item had began. So I'll ask for your discretion here Mr. Chair.

4547
07:45:12,280 --> 07:45:17,740
Did she thought out a difference? It's for like 11 BC and D.

4548
07:45:18,000 --> 07:45:21,260
The intent on speaking on those, the intention was to speak on this.

4549
07:45:21,860 --> 07:45:24,400
Okay. If the intention was to speak on this, let's let them go ahead and speak.

4550
07:45:25,000 --> 07:45:25,760
Okay. Thank you, sir.

4551
07:45:28,530 --> 07:45:28,850
All right.

4552
07:45:28,850 --> 07:45:35,470
only three. Are you seeing that time? No, I'm not taking over a time. I was

4553
07:45:35,470 --> 07:45:39,390
clarifying that he said I was the last speaker and she was calling to

4554
07:45:39,390 --> 07:45:44,370
me that before you went to Zoom. We're gonna...

4555
07:45:44,370 --> 07:45:47,790
We'll just... No you're not. We're gonna clear it.

4556
07:45:48,330 --> 07:45:52,490
No we're gonna give it to you. Nice to me.

4557
07:45:52,490 --> 07:45:52,930
It's interesting.

4558
07:45:55,510 --> 07:46:02,210
For a year native, foreign race, I've traversed all through picking out there and we know

4559
07:46:02,210 --> 07:46:03,590
that this is about it.

4560
07:46:03,790 --> 07:46:09,490
I commend the developer on their redesign, trying to make it all appealing and minimize

4561
07:46:09,490 --> 07:46:14,790
it's, you know, jaw and negative aspects of it, you know, they're doing their best, but

4562
07:46:14,790 --> 07:46:17,830
that's because they know it doesn't belong there.

4563
07:46:17,830 --> 07:46:23,050
They're pick this low piece and the low all this conservation that we need to protect.

4564
07:46:23,550 --> 07:46:30,990
And we don't need to start a precedent here and now to allow this change when we know what is right.

4565
07:46:31,070 --> 07:46:36,630
I hope in your hearts and you know the way that you need to vote on this to maintain what we

4566
07:46:36,630 --> 07:46:47,810
as call your right residents what call your to be. And I'm not going to run on, I'll go ahead and

4567
07:46:48,790 --> 07:46:53,730
So our next registered speaker would be calling hines? You're welcome.

4568
07:46:59,100 --> 07:47:02,180
Yeah, I'm not really a public speaker. I'm just a resident of

4569
07:47:02,180 --> 07:47:09,860
Call Your County that wants this over developing to stop. Slow it down. We've got no roads built for all of this

4570
07:47:09,860 --> 07:47:18,540
excess building that's going on. It is a sending area. We do not want it changed. You keep squeezing and

4571
07:47:18,540 --> 07:47:24,700
squeeze in and squeeze in and let them get away with developing over, developing and moving

4572
07:47:24,700 --> 07:47:30,780
into protected conservation and sensitive lands.

4573
07:47:31,660 --> 07:47:33,480
Our wildlife are equally

4574
07:47:35,910 --> 07:47:38,530
indebted into these lands.

4575
07:47:38,770 --> 07:47:42,130
These owners of this land had opportunity to sell it.

4576
07:47:42,130 --> 07:47:44,030
They had opportunity to settle.

4577
07:47:44,530 --> 07:47:50,950
They keep trying to push this agenda of changing the zoning that's protecting our wild

4578
07:47:50,950 --> 07:47:58,430
life and boundaries against the buildout. It's getting out of hand. I wish you would

4579
07:47:58,430 --> 07:48:07,250
vote no. Please. Thank you. Zoom. Yes, sir. We will move to our speakers on Zoom.

4580
07:48:08,490 --> 07:48:13,930
Our first registered speaker on Zoom is Patty Whitehead. Patty, you should be receiving

4581
07:48:13,930 --> 07:48:19,710
a prompt to unmute yourself and I see that you have Patty you have. Okay. I can you hear

4582
07:48:19,710 --> 07:48:20,710
Are you okay commissioners?

4583
07:48:21,590 --> 07:48:21,770
Yes.

4584
07:48:22,690 --> 07:48:23,090
Yes.

4585
07:48:23,510 --> 07:48:23,590
Great.

4586
07:48:24,510 --> 07:48:24,830
Yes.

4587
07:48:24,830 --> 07:48:26,730
I don't want to belabor some of the points tomorrow.

4588
07:48:26,870 --> 07:48:27,530
We're going to raise.

4589
07:48:28,330 --> 07:48:29,550
But I'll just start from the beginning.

4590
07:48:29,790 --> 07:48:33,670
Of course, this has a heck of a lot more human presence in human activity than orange

4591
07:48:34,710 --> 07:48:35,110
groves.

4592
07:48:35,750 --> 07:48:38,610
Golf courses are also notorious for what are consumption.

4593
07:48:39,590 --> 07:48:42,330
How many times do you raise a new cycle?

4594
07:48:42,810 --> 07:48:43,110
Excuse me.

4595
07:48:43,170 --> 07:48:47,770
Have we heard the argument made by local government growth advocates and developers that

4596
07:48:47,770 --> 07:48:52,270
strictly from a water consumption quantification standpoint, golf courses have a far worse

4597
07:48:52,270 --> 07:48:54,910
water budget than even mega data centers.

4598
07:48:56,190 --> 07:49:00,410
Let's move on to the issue of, it was raised by some of the commissioners at the beginning,

4599
07:49:01,650 --> 07:49:04,970
that, you know, oh, golf courses can support

4600
07:49:04,970 --> 07:49:07,670
fray base for panthers.

4601
07:49:07,950 --> 07:49:09,090
Well, not really.

4602
07:49:09,290 --> 07:49:15,610
I mean, golf course managers really go out of their way to keep hogs and deer off golf

4603
07:49:15,610 --> 07:49:17,370
of course, is they're incredibly destructive.

4604
07:49:19,250 --> 07:49:23,570
And I mean, they eat off the ground in the Etrees.

4605
07:49:26,390 --> 07:49:29,870
So it's just, it's antithetical to say that we're going

4606
07:49:29,870 --> 07:49:32,450
to Dr. Snatch is going to track these creatures

4607
07:49:32,450 --> 07:49:37,310
and then at the same time try and preserve the artificial landscape

4608
07:49:37,310 --> 07:49:39,950
that they've poured millions of dollars into creating.

4609
07:49:40,710 --> 07:49:45,490
So generally, fences at our areas where there is high

4610
07:49:45,490 --> 07:49:51,210
of habitat value, we see, you know, tall, multi-strain, high-thed, so near-fencing.

4611
07:49:51,770 --> 07:49:55,650
We see true protection, plastic tree guards, or wire cages around the

4612
07:49:55,650 --> 07:50:00,870
saplings, ferment antlers, antler rubbing, damage during the summer, repellents,

4613
07:50:01,670 --> 07:50:05,650
managers applied the catapult, voter, or case-based granular, only with repellents.

4614
07:50:06,170 --> 07:50:09,630
Landscapes selection, superintendents use deer-resistant plantings around

4615
07:50:09,630 --> 07:50:15,730
bowl and roll perimeter zones and finally I want to talk about the changes in the growth management

4616
07:50:15,730 --> 07:50:21,590
plan that this usher is in and consequently the zoning changes. I mean to raise the sending land

4617
07:50:21,590 --> 07:50:27,210
as a nation of these 160 acres there's a really really slippery slope potential whole wholesale

4618
07:50:27,210 --> 07:50:34,950
degradation of the RF mode and RLSA programs. Rea citizens of South of Florida are constantly dealing

4619
07:50:34,950 --> 07:50:39,290
with these shifting baselines when it comes to foundational growth management rules.

4620
07:50:39,690 --> 07:50:43,470
There were implemented for some very worthy and very necessary land protection regions

4621
07:50:43,470 --> 07:50:48,110
and rural sectors of our counties that are subsequently stripped away.

4622
07:50:48,850 --> 07:50:52,550
We're living this now in the weak county where our density reduction in groundwater resource

4623
07:50:52,550 --> 07:50:56,870
area and southeastly has been recently demolished, and I mean completely demolished by the

4624
07:50:56,870 --> 07:51:01,910
currently B.O.C.C. to basically accommodate more and more growth and eliminate any cap on

4625
07:51:01,910 --> 07:51:07,530
the power and capacity of sensitive lands needed for fresh, freshwater percolation for domestic and county wealth fields.

4626
07:51:08,290 --> 07:51:10,450
And unimpleated open space for wildlife movement.

4627
07:51:11,030 --> 07:51:15,650
Wildlife especially are native megafauna, don't live in isolated pockets of adequate habitat.

4628
07:51:15,890 --> 07:51:21,110
They need to move across a broad non-human geography, to hunt, to farage, to find mates, and to den.

4629
07:51:21,290 --> 07:51:25,390
Across extensive landscape scale ranges of each county and across county lines.

4630
07:51:27,270 --> 07:51:33,290
And so the other speakers have pointed out the lands, there are lands, I guess, and the

4631
07:51:33,290 --> 07:51:38,830
ease of the stable ponds that could potentially fall to the development if you allow this

4632
07:51:38,830 --> 07:51:39,730
to go through this.

4633
07:51:39,950 --> 07:51:41,770
Of course, you're setting a precedent.

4634
07:51:42,070 --> 07:51:44,710
That's exactly what happened in our leading RGR.

4635
07:51:45,410 --> 07:51:46,330
You know, you –

4636
07:51:47,090 --> 07:51:48,150
Just to –

4637
07:51:48,150 --> 07:51:48,630
Just to whom.

4638
07:51:48,630 --> 07:51:49,470
Man, just to whom.

4639
07:51:50,070 --> 07:51:54,150
Your time went off the f 것이 seconds together so just go ahead and finish up.

4640
07:51:54,150 --> 07:51:58,990
How many minutes? What do I have left second? Yeah, nothing left. I'm sorry. That's what I'm saying.

4641
07:52:04,670 --> 07:52:16,150
Our next registered speaker is Dylan Scott. Dylan, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

4642
07:52:20,270 --> 07:52:22,330
Dylan, I see you have unmuted yourself, Dylan.

4643
07:52:24,400 --> 07:52:28,760
hey good evening commissarence thank you for allowing me to up in the speak

4644
07:52:28,760 --> 07:52:29,960
I did just want

4645
07:52:30,000 --> 07:52:39,380
To note, you know, like Commissioner Le Costa had mentioned earlier. You know, he asked a question about, it's paying just a growth management plan.

4646
07:52:39,920 --> 07:52:45,320
And staff had said this would require significant efforts required to amend the growth management plan.

4647
07:52:45,580 --> 07:52:51,840
I just want to caution the commission, you know, what is the point of a growth management plan or a land development code?

4648
07:52:52,200 --> 07:52:55,840
It every time a developer asked for an amendment to it, the commission grants it.

4649
07:52:55,840 --> 07:53:05,300
So please just consider that the weight of the decision to be held later today as you decide on this vote.

4650
07:53:08,100 --> 07:53:13,220
And then I do want to just talk on, you know, there have been, I don't know, 40 public commenters today.

4651
07:53:13,780 --> 07:53:22,280
And all of them have been in opposition to this. There have been no golfers here to comment or show support for this plan.

4652
07:53:22,280 --> 07:53:29,720
So I'm just pleading with you. Please listen to the community members and the professionals that have background in conservation.

4653
07:53:31,080 --> 07:53:34,600
You know, this is Panther habitat. This is breeding habitat. They may not dead.

4654
07:53:34,880 --> 07:53:37,840
And there's orders that they are utilizing this land.

4655
07:53:41,420 --> 07:53:47,160
And even with the All-Bond certification, there will still be negative environmental impacts from this golf course.

4656
07:53:47,480 --> 07:53:51,100
You can put $5 million in the page, but at the end of the day it still will take.

4657
07:53:51,320 --> 07:53:51,620
I would.

4658
07:53:53,360 --> 07:53:58,720
Please, or ask that the Commission or landowner for two other options for the land at

4659
07:53:58,720 --> 07:54:07,180
whether it be, you know, looking into a conservation collier again, or seeing if the property

4660
07:54:07,180 --> 07:54:13,540
would be suitable for the role of family lands program or for the forever, but in closing,

4661
07:54:13,540 --> 07:54:18,580
Please vote now on this proposal and furthermore GoGator's Beetle Miss.

4662
07:54:21,040 --> 07:54:22,000
All right.

4663
07:54:22,000 --> 07:54:25,320
Our next registered speaker is Katherine Donovan.

4664
07:54:26,900 --> 07:54:29,460
Katherine, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

4665
07:54:31,380 --> 07:54:33,600
I see you've unmute yourself, Katherine. You have three minutes.

4666
07:54:34,860 --> 07:54:36,220
Okay, thank you so much.

4667
07:54:36,600 --> 07:54:39,260
I'm Kitty Donovan, and thank you for having me speak today.

4668
07:54:39,260 --> 07:54:44,600
We've heard this property described today as old-dead orange grove, but a Florida

4669
07:54:44,600 --> 07:54:48,760
Panther does not care whether we consider land beautiful, whether it wants to

4670
07:54:48,760 --> 07:54:52,900
screw oranges, or whether it looks impressive on a development plan.

4671
07:54:54,040 --> 07:54:58,880
The Panther itself does not know where protective public land ends and private land

4672
07:54:58,880 --> 07:54:59,240
begins.

4673
07:54:59,660 --> 07:55:05,340
What it means is connected habitat, room to hunt, breed, and move safely across South Florida.

4674
07:55:05,340 --> 07:55:08,880
We're talking about one of the rarest mammals in America.

4675
07:55:09,820 --> 07:55:14,920
The U.S. Wildlife and Fish Service described a single-breeding population remaining in South Florida.

4676
07:55:15,720 --> 07:55:22,060
This often cited federal estimate is only 120 to 230 adult and sub-adult.

4677
07:55:30,870 --> 07:55:32,730
Katherine, did we lose you?

4678
07:55:36,420 --> 07:55:39,760
Going one more time, I believe, might have a technical issue, Katherine.

4679
07:55:44,880 --> 07:55:46,320
All right, will we have another speaker?

4680
07:55:46,740 --> 07:55:47,220
Yes.

4681
07:55:47,220 --> 07:55:51,720
If we could, just keep Katherine on hold.

4682
07:55:52,480 --> 07:55:55,700
Our next speaker would be Morgan walk-in-chall.

4683
07:55:57,620 --> 07:55:59,940
Morgan, you should be receiving a prompt on yourself.

4684
07:56:01,180 --> 07:56:01,820
I see you voted.

4685
07:56:02,720 --> 07:56:03,880
Yes, you have three minutes.

4686
07:56:05,080 --> 07:56:06,800
Okay, thank you for letting me speak.

4687
07:56:07,900 --> 07:56:11,260
We are here asking you all to deny this development proposal.

4688
07:56:11,680 --> 07:56:14,960
I heard some of the commissioners say we just want everything denied.

4689
07:56:14,960 --> 07:56:20,280
But after 2,000 acres of panther have attacked out approved under Calder County's missioners,

4690
07:56:20,440 --> 07:56:24,780
there should be no question in doubt that any Everglades development gets denied in full force.

4691
07:56:25,360 --> 07:56:29,120
Not to mention many golf courses use glyphosate to maintain their properties,

4692
07:56:29,380 --> 07:56:31,900
which will inevitably run for wildlife areas.

4693
07:56:32,740 --> 07:56:39,600
Although I'm not sure the FWC has a problem with that particular thing that they are and have been spreading in our waterways for a very long time now.

4694
07:56:39,600 --> 07:56:47,480
My question is, is what kind of precedent do we set to those who want to and are bulldozing our state for the right price?

4695
07:56:47,920 --> 07:56:51,340
They're willing to sell out the lives of truth, where it ends, and all our wildlife.

4696
07:56:52,060 --> 07:56:56,680
It truly makes me sick to my stomach to see what's happening to our state because of these terribly selfish decisions.

4697
07:56:57,120 --> 07:56:58,420
It really is pure evil.

4698
07:56:59,220 --> 07:57:06,440
And I think to myself, very often, if there's a spot you love and role or protective Florida, that this is your warning, they're coming for it.

4699
07:57:06,440 --> 07:57:11,680
they will take it, their greed literally has no bounds and their cup is always running empty.

4700
07:57:12,360 --> 07:57:17,520
Our state is getting over 100,000 acres of land developed every single year.

4701
07:57:18,760 --> 07:57:22,600
Which begs the question, when will our commissioners be a public servant rather than a

4702
07:57:22,600 --> 07:57:25,300
servant to developers and the whims of the FWC?

4703
07:57:25,800 --> 07:57:29,820
Truly, I hope God has more mercy on these politicians than they have had while destroying

4704
07:57:29,820 --> 07:57:30,440
our state.

4705
07:57:31,020 --> 07:57:34,060
We are seeing our beautiful state get turned into a concrete jungle.

4706
07:57:34,700 --> 07:57:40,180
The truth is, Americans are spending about 90% of their life inside because we are losing

4707
07:57:40,180 --> 07:57:41,520
green spaces rapidly.

4708
07:57:43,940 --> 07:57:47,520
With that being said, we are begging you to do the right thing and deny the settlement.

4709
07:57:47,980 --> 07:57:51,540
The public will not keep voting and commissioners who continue to allow this pro-development

4710
07:57:51,540 --> 07:57:52,020
ideology.

4711
07:57:52,580 --> 07:57:53,900
Thank you.

4712
07:57:54,200 --> 07:57:54,740
Thank you.

4713
07:57:55,140 --> 07:57:57,920
Our next registered speaker is Ryan Young.

4714
07:57:58,860 --> 07:58:01,600
Ryan, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

4715
07:58:02,360 --> 07:58:04,780
I see you have Ryan, do you have three minutes.

4716
07:58:06,280 --> 07:58:06,760
Good afternoon.

4717
07:58:07,460 --> 07:58:08,620
Can everybody hear me okay?

4718
07:58:10,660 --> 07:58:11,540
Yes, sir.

4719
07:58:11,820 --> 07:58:12,820
Thank you.

4720
07:58:12,900 --> 07:58:13,840
My name's Ryan Young.

4721
07:58:13,980 --> 07:58:15,660
I own an operating, rising tide explorers,

4722
07:58:15,840 --> 07:58:17,620
as well as Naples, Outfitters, and Kaya Company.

4723
07:58:18,000 --> 07:58:18,920
Here in Colored County.

4724
07:58:19,120 --> 07:58:20,460
This is where I live, work.

4725
07:58:20,560 --> 07:58:22,660
And I'm raising my family right here in these Naples.

4726
07:58:23,440 --> 07:58:25,660
And earlier today, I sent all the commissioners

4727
07:58:25,660 --> 07:58:27,760
are written summary of a potential third path.

4728
07:58:28,640 --> 07:58:31,480
I recognize that the Smith's family needs a fair and timely

4729
07:58:31,480 --> 07:58:35,680
outcome and I respect the current applicants position and investment and Commissioner

4730
07:58:35,680 --> 07:58:39,780
LaCastro, I heard you're concerned that prior alternatives lack funding and

4731
07:58:39,780 --> 07:58:43,440
execution and that's a fair assessment. I want to clarify that the

4732
07:58:43,440 --> 07:58:47,360
plant cent this morning is not a final funded offer today, but I'm asking the

4733
07:58:47,360 --> 07:58:52,340
board to treat. This is an early concept as one regardless of the existing

4734
07:58:52,340 --> 07:58:56,640
interests from private capital and operating partners that we've already gathered.

4735
07:58:56,640 --> 07:59:01,980
So rather than a concept composed, sorry,

4736
07:59:02,100 --> 07:59:03,140
to never mind, I'm stumbling.

4737
07:59:04,520 --> 07:59:07,140
I'm late in bringing this concept because it only took shape

4738
07:59:07,140 --> 07:59:09,860
after hearing the lack of agricultural

4739
07:59:09,860 --> 07:59:11,660
centered alternatives being presented.

4740
07:59:11,860 --> 07:59:14,380
After studying the property, conservation tools,

4741
07:59:14,840 --> 07:59:16,740
and operating models, I felt that should be raised

4742
07:59:16,740 --> 07:59:19,660
due to legitimate potential to combine private investment

4743
07:59:20,200 --> 07:59:22,600
and conservation tools to create a lasting resource

4744
07:59:22,600 --> 07:59:24,420
to serve the community as a whole

4745
07:59:24,420 --> 07:59:30,340
and provide a competitive offer for the family where conservation offers alone struggle to compete with development offers.

4746
07:59:30,800 --> 07:59:38,720
I've built this concept that would combine permanent conservation, diversified working agriculture, private investment, and a limited agritorism area.

4747
07:59:39,480 --> 07:59:52,020
Most of the property would remain diversified and improve agricultural operation, habitat water, management land, or restoration, and a smaller area could support an upgraded diversified farm market, farm to table.

4748
07:59:52,020 --> 07:59:58,360
food operation, education with eco and adretorism opportunities, a conservative old Florida

4749
07:59:58,360 --> 07:59:59,980
event space and very limited.

4750
08:00:00,000 --> 08:00:05,020
It had farmsday lodging that would help fund the farm and stewardship of the land. The goals not

4751
08:00:05,020 --> 08:00:10,000
to preserve the current Business Model unchanged or ask the family to sacrifice the land value

4752
08:00:10,000 --> 08:00:15,460
a determined whether conservation participation, working land protection, private capital can

4753
08:00:15,460 --> 08:00:19,720
provide a dignified exit while preserving families like to see an appease of old Florida.

4754
08:00:20,900 --> 08:00:25,300
I understand there's a lot more work that we need to go into this, but I wanted to put this on

4755
08:00:25,300 --> 08:00:31,520
table while there was still time, and this would require either an extension or denying the

4756
08:00:31,520 --> 08:00:37,320
current proposal to allow for more opportunities to be presented that might check all of

4757
08:00:37,320 --> 08:00:44,040
the boxes and satisfy a lot of different parties with something that would serve the community.

4758
08:00:44,420 --> 08:00:49,040
And I didn't want to leave this here without presenting it because that would be an opportunity

4759
08:00:49,040 --> 08:00:56,740
lost and I hope that you'll consider reviewing it and that the parties involved with this

4760
08:00:56,740 --> 08:01:01,720
project might be open to considering a third alternative. Thank you.

4761
08:01:01,760 --> 08:01:08,540
Thank you. Our next speaker is Nancy Rose Spectre. Nancy, you should be receiving a prompt to

4762
08:01:08,540 --> 08:01:13,840
unmute yourself. I see that you have Nancy, you have three minutes.

4763
08:01:15,020 --> 08:01:22,100
All right, good afternoon, almost evening commissioners, for the record, my name is Nancy Rose

4764
08:01:22,100 --> 08:01:27,340
Spector, I'm a resident of Markle Island, and I strongly urge you to vote no on items

4765
08:01:27,340 --> 08:01:34,340
90 in D. The applicant earlier conceded on the record that sending lands are essential,

4766
08:01:34,960 --> 08:01:40,280
and that you cannot have a functioning transfer of development rights program without them.

4767
08:01:40,280 --> 08:01:47,600
Yet his justification to circumvent that rule is claiming that this parcel was never characterized correctly.

4768
08:01:48,360 --> 08:01:50,700
That argument is legally baseless.

4769
08:01:51,240 --> 08:02:02,380
Call your county's world fringe mixed use district was mapped on a landscape scale to direct intensive uses away from fragile ecosystems, connecting Pikaigan's strand state forest.

4770
08:02:02,380 --> 08:02:10,340
Establishing a precedent that 169 acres were, quote, never characterized correctly, just

4771
08:02:10,340 --> 08:02:15,860
because an agricultural decline and a developed or wants a golf course caused the integrity

4772
08:02:15,860 --> 08:02:18,920
of the entire countrywide TDR framework to collapse.

4773
08:02:19,620 --> 08:02:25,620
The applicant's presentation further proves this project is anything but environmentally sensitive.

4774
08:02:26,560 --> 08:02:32,020
First, commercial golf courses and their maintenance hubs rely heavily on chemical controls

4775
08:02:32,020 --> 08:02:35,580
including second-generation anti-quadulent brodoin decides.

4776
08:02:36,460 --> 08:02:38,600
Even under Audubon International Guidelines,

4777
08:02:38,880 --> 08:02:39,940
brodoin decides are permitted.

4778
08:02:40,980 --> 08:02:44,040
When poisoned rodents wander into roughs and open-ground,

4779
08:02:44,440 --> 08:02:48,100
secondary bio-accumulation directly threatens native raptors,

4780
08:02:48,700 --> 08:02:51,820
including our local burrowing owls, hawks, and ospreys,

4781
08:02:52,540 --> 08:02:55,400
as well as apex predators hunting adjacent to state lands,

4782
08:02:55,640 --> 08:02:56,260
like the Panthers.

4783
08:02:57,580 --> 08:03:01,200
Second, their presentation confirms this entire commercial footprint,

4784
08:03:01,200 --> 08:03:12,340
A 18-hole golf course, clubhouse, maintenance facilities, and 10 rental cottages will run entirely on private, onsite, well-inceptic.

4785
08:03:12,980 --> 08:03:23,720
High-volume groundwater pumping and commercial septic drain fields inside the Bell-Mead hydrological enhancement overlay directly threatened regional water quality and sheet flow restoration.

4786
08:03:23,720 --> 08:03:32,200
Third, while touting 70% open space, they admit to preserving only 35% native vegetation.

4787
08:03:33,400 --> 08:03:39,680
In a natural resource protection overlay, clear-cut graded fairways are not ecological conservation.

4788
08:03:40,620 --> 08:03:48,080
Baseline property rights guarantee the uses permitted under existing zoning, not the growth management plan amendment.

4789
08:03:48,080 --> 08:03:56,380
The baseline world zoning of one home for 40 acres protects the owners equity through the TDR credits, the applicant acknowledged.

4790
08:03:57,640 --> 08:04:02,620
That allows four homes, not an intensive resort complex on a private set.

4791
08:04:03,460 --> 08:04:10,080
Please uphold the growth management plan, protecting our sending lands, and vote no on items 9C90.

4792
08:04:10,560 --> 08:04:11,280
Thank you very much.

4793
08:04:11,860 --> 08:04:12,880
Thank you.

4794
08:04:12,880 --> 08:04:21,880
Our final registered speaker on this item is Matthew Schwartz. Matthew, you should be receiving a prompt to unmute yourself.

4795
08:04:23,400 --> 08:04:24,600
I see that you have it on mute.

4796
08:04:25,100 --> 08:04:25,520
Yes, sir.

4797
08:04:25,720 --> 08:04:27,460
Okay, great. Thanks. Good afternoon.

4798
08:04:27,860 --> 08:04:29,840
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening.

4799
08:04:30,660 --> 08:04:30,740
Good evening.

4800
08:04:30,740 --> 08:04:30,920
Good evening.

4801
08:04:31,620 --> 08:04:34,520
Matthew Schwartz for South Florida Wildlands Association.

4802
08:04:35,060 --> 08:04:39,480
I better to paragraph to my prepared comments and response to some of the earlier Q&A.

4803
08:04:39,480 --> 08:04:45,100
The environmental expert who spoke earlier about Panther Habitat and Denning and stated to you that

4804
08:04:45,100 --> 08:04:49,720
Panthers prefer wetlands for Denning provided clearly incorrect information, according

4805
08:04:49,720 --> 08:04:55,200
to every agency and scientists that studies and manages Panthers, Panthers prefer uplens that

4806
08:04:55,200 --> 08:05:00,460
do not flood for all life processes, and especially for Denning. Wetlands that often flood

4807
08:05:00,460 --> 08:05:05,780
would rank very low on a female Panthers choice of a den site. If the site has ditches for

4808
08:05:05,780 --> 08:05:08,300
a cultural drainage that would create a drier environment

4809
08:05:08,300 --> 08:05:09,980
for denting and all-life activities.

4810
08:05:10,840 --> 08:05:12,860
In fact, this site and the surrounding lands

4811
08:05:12,860 --> 08:05:14,600
is loaded with tants or telemetry,

4812
08:05:15,020 --> 08:05:17,220
and that is only from the small percentage of panthers

4813
08:05:17,220 --> 08:05:18,240
that are actually a colleague.

4814
08:05:18,920 --> 08:05:20,980
A lack of human occupancy on this site,

4815
08:05:20,980 --> 08:05:23,660
especially if it became a conservation call your property,

4816
08:05:24,220 --> 08:05:26,300
is a major factor that determines quality

4817
08:05:26,300 --> 08:05:30,020
pantor habitat, and that today's discussion completely overlooked.

4818
08:05:30,780 --> 08:05:33,380
Finally, I or a panther scientist could explain

4819
08:05:33,380 --> 08:05:35,360
what primary pantor habitat is,

4820
08:05:35,360 --> 08:05:40,740
and means for a commission that should already understand that concept, that concept and detail,

4821
08:05:41,180 --> 08:05:45,120
since you folks are actually making the most important decisions that can be made for

4822
08:05:45,120 --> 08:05:48,040
at state-animal, here in ground zero, call your county.

4823
08:05:48,820 --> 08:05:53,360
You folks make those decisions, but we need much more time than I have to explain Panther

4824
08:05:53,360 --> 08:05:54,880
habitat and primary habitat.

4825
08:05:55,940 --> 08:06:00,300
Unfortunately, that lack of actual Panther science here is a big deficiency in this decision

4826
08:06:00,300 --> 08:06:06,440
discussion. But the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has designated this land as primary

4827
08:06:06,440 --> 08:06:11,920
plant-to-habitat for a reason. I'll go back to my original comments. At the outset, the

4828
08:06:11,920 --> 08:06:16,860
only reason we're here today is because the Commission, while opposed to 423 new homes

4829
08:06:16,860 --> 08:06:24,420
on this 169th site, Acrecyte, back in January, never though that's voted to continue it and

4830
08:06:24,420 --> 08:06:28,260
consider an alternative use. That's now the golf course that we're discussing today.

4831
08:06:28,260 --> 08:06:33,400
What is up with that? I've attended many commission and planning commission meetings involving

4832
08:06:33,400 --> 08:06:38,120
developments that I know are going to degrade the ecology of Calier County and further

4833
08:06:38,120 --> 08:06:42,620
threaten the tiny amount of habitat at our state animal that Florida plant has left. River

4834
08:06:42,620 --> 08:06:48,180
grass, long water, bell motor, bell mar, right shore of the list goes on and on. It's tens

4835
08:06:48,180 --> 08:06:52,620
of thousands of acres of habitat, somebody said two thousand tens of thousands. Calier County

4836
08:06:52,620 --> 08:06:57,360
is around zero for the only poop population left in the entire eastern United States and

4837
08:06:57,360 --> 08:07:01,180
people all around the U.S. pay attention to the decisions that are being made here.

4838
08:07:01,840 --> 08:07:06,200
I'm often told that my comments are out of step with the circumstances because the

4839
08:07:06,200 --> 08:07:11,940
programs created by the county, including the RLSA, and now the RFM UD, allow these developments.

4840
08:07:12,600 --> 08:07:16,620
I'm also told to take my concerns to Larry Williams or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

4841
08:07:16,940 --> 08:07:21,320
I did. And currently, I'm at a federal lawsuit with the service over their continued

4842
08:07:21,320 --> 08:07:25,420
permitting of development after development and panther habitat without adequately

4843
08:07:25,420 --> 08:07:28,380
adequately considering cumulative impact to this disease.

4844
08:07:29,180 --> 08:07:29,980
When a project comes

4845
08:07:30,600 --> 08:07:38,800
I don't get to say that the land never should have been designated that way, that it should have been sending lands, or ask you to simply change the designation.

4846
08:07:39,600 --> 08:07:46,000
And when I'm done speaking usually, Mr. Nianovitch is called to speak, the applicant's attorney will say, well, the opponents don't like the program.

4847
08:07:46,300 --> 08:07:48,060
But I say times out.

4848
08:07:48,400 --> 08:07:49,420
We'll do it.

4849
08:07:49,440 --> 08:07:58,620
I will just close on this. Mr. Nianovitch doesn't like the program and is asking you to change it simply to further his client's economic interest.

4850
08:07:58,620 --> 08:08:04,960
The parcel is rural, unpopulated land, the Jason's the pick you can scan, primary plant the habitat, it should be left

4851
08:08:04,960 --> 08:08:13,860
As is, you have no need to designate this for the developer and the his his his legal team. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair

4852
08:08:13,860 --> 08:08:21,650
Katherine Donovan who the call dropped out on earlier has returned if I may take her. How many minutes you have left?

4853
08:08:22,410 --> 08:08:24,230
It's hard to determine, isn't it?

4854
08:08:25,430 --> 08:08:25,890
About two.

4855
08:08:26,030 --> 08:08:26,970
You were seeing the monitor?

4856
08:08:27,610 --> 08:08:28,430
So you got about two men?

4857
08:08:29,530 --> 08:08:29,610
Two?

4858
08:08:29,610 --> 08:08:29,730
Okay.

4859
08:08:30,030 --> 08:08:31,690
From my referee in the second row.

4860
08:08:31,710 --> 08:08:34,550
Can't prove to be receiving a prompt to 100 meters self-catter?

4861
08:08:34,850 --> 08:08:35,570
I get by once again.

4862
08:08:35,590 --> 08:08:36,350
Thank you so much.

4863
08:08:36,350 --> 08:08:38,050
I was on hold since this morning.

4864
08:08:38,970 --> 08:08:41,470
And my kids were playing hide and seek and kicked out the internet.

4865
08:08:41,650 --> 08:08:42,790
I was about to have hard time.

4866
08:08:43,030 --> 08:08:44,310
I'll just do my quick ending.

4867
08:08:45,230 --> 08:08:50,010
The National Park Service estimated that they're used to be 1,360 Panthers.

4868
08:08:50,010 --> 08:08:55,790
the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service projected between 2000 and 4000 adult panthers.

4869
08:08:56,430 --> 08:09:02,770
We now have 200, and we're seriously considering building on their dozen native habitat.

4870
08:09:03,890 --> 08:09:08,290
Marjorie Stone and Douglas Warnford are about exactly this kind of decision. She wrote,

4871
08:09:08,910 --> 08:09:14,090
there's only one Everglades in the world to widely destroy it for building purposes

4872
08:09:14,090 --> 08:09:16,410
and with the mistaken idea of development,

4873
08:09:16,410 --> 08:09:21,170
It's to wipe out one of the greatest factors of our regional life.

4874
08:09:21,790 --> 08:09:27,970
So, commissioners, I'm asking please to reject this offer, no reclassifying, no rezoning

4875
08:09:28,930 --> 08:09:30,930
of this unused orange grove.

4876
08:09:31,110 --> 08:09:33,050
It's perfect just the way it is.

4877
08:09:33,270 --> 08:09:36,650
Give our panthers the 200 remaining or however many.

4878
08:09:37,450 --> 08:09:41,850
Somewhere left to go, somewhere left to breed, somewhere left to go, not a golf course.

4879
08:09:42,490 --> 08:09:42,810
Thank you.

4880
08:09:42,810 --> 08:09:44,410
Thanks for giving me a second chance.

4881
08:09:44,410 --> 08:09:51,390
All right, thank you. That was our final register speaker. All righty. Typically we

4882
08:09:51,390 --> 08:10:00,080
would like to, do you need a break before we do this? Let's finish it up. Hey, hey, hey,

4883
08:10:00,180 --> 08:10:03,600
I got a corporate reporter here. It's been typing away. I got to check with her, all right,

4884
08:10:03,940 --> 08:10:04,040
guys.

4885
08:10:04,380 --> 08:10:08,640
This is actually my question. Okay, we're going to finish it up. Yeah, I won't be long,

4886
08:10:08,840 --> 08:10:13,600
but I do need to get back to my presentation. I want to point out a couple of things. I

4887
08:10:13,600 --> 08:10:21,420
But I think the property that the woman who showed the videos was referring to was Karina

4888
08:10:21,420 --> 08:10:25,700
Court, correct Karina, which is in which is verbal.

4889
08:10:27,220 --> 08:10:32,520
Which I find it ironic that the pants that was perfectly comfortable walking through her

4890
08:10:32,520 --> 08:10:38,060
backyard or someone's backyard and somehow that pants was going to be uncomfortable walking

4891
08:10:38,060 --> 08:10:41,460
through a deserted golf course at night.

4892
08:10:41,460 --> 08:10:50,280
So to copyright and say that my golf course when my client's proposed golf course is somehow interfering with the panther that was perfectly comfortable

4893
08:10:50,280 --> 08:10:54,860
walking through a residential community and I think we have on my

4894
08:10:59,890 --> 08:11:04,110
I gave you I gave you your turn to speak. It's my turn

4895
08:11:04,110 --> 08:11:10,730
Yeah, Korean Accord is a residential development and we're gonna be a totally

4896
08:11:10,730 --> 08:11:19,890
open golf course. We are not interfering with the panther's ability to roam at night when they're

4897
08:11:19,890 --> 08:11:40,710
up and about doing their activities. This is not a pristine piece of property. This is an

4898
08:11:40,710 --> 08:11:47,130
waters. We're going to have a golf course that will be required to clean up through the water

4899
08:11:47,130 --> 08:11:52,950
management system, whatever chemicals that are used on the golf course before they're dispersed

4900
08:11:53,630 --> 08:11:55,770
into the surrounding environment.

4901
08:11:59,450 --> 08:12:03,350
Someone talked about a water budget. Well, the water budget

4902
08:12:03,350 --> 08:12:08,730
for the citrus growth is higher than the water budget than the golf course. So there's a reduction

4903
08:12:08,730 --> 08:12:16,170
and water use related to going from the citrus grove to the golf course.

4904
08:12:17,530 --> 08:12:20,390
There will be express any credentials when they spoke.

4905
08:12:21,110 --> 08:12:25,250
So I don't know if they were just reading from the internet, did an AI search.

4906
08:12:26,210 --> 08:12:29,970
But the experts, who know about this, including your own experts,

4907
08:12:32,290 --> 08:12:43,230
Mike Bozi and Jamie Cook all have testified that this is an appropriate use in the sending

4908
08:12:43,230 --> 08:12:47,310
areas, and this is not unprecedented.

4909
08:12:49,630 --> 08:12:52,850
For those of you who played hideout golf course,

4910
08:12:52,850 --> 08:12:58,570
The South portion of high-doubt golf course is designated sending lands.

4911
08:12:59,730 --> 08:13:06,430
So to come up here and say, a golf course is not appropriate in sending lands, isn't

4912
08:13:06,430 --> 08:13:09,390
familiar with or existing growth management plan.

4913
08:13:10,030 --> 08:13:13,030
So high-doubt golf course is part of the sending lands.

4914
08:13:13,450 --> 08:13:13,710
Why?

4915
08:13:13,930 --> 08:13:14,750
It was compatible.

4916
08:13:15,730 --> 08:13:20,530
Our top proposed golf course is compatible with what is around it.

4917
08:13:22,610 --> 08:13:27,390
We're not, and I've said this early on, we are not going to be a residential development.

4918
08:13:28,170 --> 08:13:33,730
If you want us to, but indeed restriction on there, this says we're not going to build residential,

4919
08:13:34,510 --> 08:13:36,170
we won't build residential.

4920
08:13:37,030 --> 08:13:38,610
I don't know how to make it any clearer.

4921
08:13:39,390 --> 08:13:46,250
What we proposed is a use that is less intensive that is consistent with the sending areas

4922
08:13:46,250 --> 08:13:48,450
as testified to by your own staff.

4923
08:13:49,230 --> 08:13:52,690
And we're requesting, I'm not going to go point by point,

4924
08:13:52,990 --> 08:13:54,750
or what the neighbors are listening to specific questions.

4925
08:13:55,450 --> 08:14:00,890
We've proposed water management fixes to the area

4926
08:14:00,890 --> 08:14:05,950
by the two culverts and to assist with our neighbor,

4927
08:14:06,190 --> 08:14:09,950
to the south, and their water management issues.

4928
08:14:11,170 --> 08:14:14,450
What we're proposing is consistent with the surrounding

4929
08:14:14,450 --> 08:14:21,450
sending lands. It's an environmental upgrade from what's there today, and we're requesting that the Board of

4930
08:14:21,450 --> 08:14:28,690
County Commissioners approve both our gross management plan amendment and our resound. You could take the

4931
08:14:28,690 --> 08:14:33,450
words, you could take a see off. I don't care what kind of a PUD you call it. You want to call it a golf course

4932
08:14:33,450 --> 08:14:38,870
PUD. That's what we are. We're a golf course. We're not a residential development. We're not going,

4933
08:14:38,950 --> 08:14:43,930
we're not a commercial development. We're not going to be a live local act project. And with that,

4934
08:14:43,930 --> 08:14:50,290
We're here to answer any specific questions you may have with regard to our proposed project.

4935
08:14:51,070 --> 08:14:51,730
Mr. Saunders.

4936
08:14:52,010 --> 08:14:54,130
Just a couple of questions for Mr. Yvonnevitt.

4937
08:14:55,290 --> 08:14:58,770
The clubhouse, I'm sure it's in the materials, but I just don't recall.

4938
08:15:00,910 --> 08:15:10,230
I assume there will be a restaurant associated with that. Can you describe kind of what the clubhouse, so it will be a clubhouse that serves the members of their guests all day?

4939
08:15:10,430 --> 08:15:13,510
No, I understand that it's a clubhouse serving members of the guests all day.

4940
08:15:14,550 --> 08:15:16,910
What do we do with the whole of the food service?

4941
08:15:17,250 --> 08:15:22,770
The described a little bit more for me. A number of seats, for example, in the restaurant. How big is this? I'm just curious.

4942
08:15:22,770 --> 08:15:30,950
We haven't designed it yet, Commissioner Saunders, but they're not, you're not going to have all 300 people there at the same time, the members.

4943
08:15:31,690 --> 08:15:33,810
So it'll be, it'll be a restaurant or appropriately sized.

4944
08:15:35,770 --> 08:15:36,910
I'm trying to give you some examples.

4945
08:15:37,210 --> 08:15:39,790
I don't have, have you been to, have you been to the clubhouse that hide out?

4946
08:15:40,910 --> 08:15:41,270
No, of course.

4947
08:15:42,590 --> 08:15:46,350
It's a relatively small, it's not, let me, it's not coil West.

4948
08:15:47,130 --> 08:15:48,490
It's not that type of clubhouse.

4949
08:15:48,510 --> 08:15:50,190
It's not a gray oak clubhouse.

4950
08:15:50,190 --> 08:15:53,630
It's a much smaller facility focused on the membership.

4951
08:15:54,030 --> 08:15:58,190
It's not that same level of size of facility.

4952
08:15:58,450 --> 08:15:59,810
I'm sure you've been to those located.

4953
08:16:00,070 --> 08:16:02,130
I mean, there is an ask if you're talking about

4954
08:16:02,130 --> 08:16:08,810
memberships at $300,000, $400,000, the members are going to expect

4955
08:16:08,810 --> 08:16:14,810
I would assume some fairly nice facilities in addition

4956
08:16:14,810 --> 08:16:19,590
into the nice Greenland and the guiding, for the facilities,

4957
08:16:20,910 --> 08:16:25,030
I can, it's going to be in, or since you probably

4958
08:16:25,030 --> 08:16:27,370
not the way to hire that, I've been fortunate

4959
08:16:27,370 --> 08:16:29,670
to go play coups upon a couple of times.

4960
08:16:30,810 --> 08:16:33,310
You'll be surprised that the clubhouse facility

4961
08:16:33,310 --> 08:16:35,030
is not that large.

4962
08:16:35,730 --> 08:16:38,270
It has a nice restaurant, actually most people

4963
08:16:38,270 --> 08:16:39,930
don't even eat in the restaurant that they have.

4964
08:16:40,070 --> 08:16:43,990
You eat in the locker room, where it's very cozy,

4965
08:16:43,990 --> 08:16:48,790
And he spent a lot of money to be a member there, but you get, you get your food and your

4966
08:16:48,790 --> 08:16:50,230
beverages, it's a small bar.

4967
08:16:50,550 --> 08:16:53,910
It's not a big grand flood house that you might imagine.

4968
08:16:54,930 --> 08:16:59,590
That's associated with a golf course that you pay a lot of money to be a member.

4969
08:17:00,430 --> 08:17:06,130
And all of this will be on septic and, well, it'll be appropriate size to be on septic

4970
08:17:06,130 --> 08:17:06,970
and well, yes.

4971
08:17:07,810 --> 08:17:11,370
I have no other questions right now, Mr. Chairman, okay, Mr. LaCastra.

4972
08:17:11,730 --> 08:17:12,230
Thank you, Chairman.

4973
08:17:12,890 --> 08:17:16,130
Mr. Ivanovich, I was just going to, did you need a minute?

4974
08:17:16,370 --> 08:17:19,430
No, I just want to make a client to come up closer to some case to the questions I need to help.

4975
08:17:20,970 --> 08:17:23,850
You know, the county exhausts it all in possible options that we can.

4976
08:17:23,910 --> 08:17:27,870
It's not our job to sell this property, but I think we went above and beyond.

4977
08:17:27,930 --> 08:17:31,150
You know, not only did we not support the 423 houses.

4978
08:17:31,650 --> 08:17:33,130
We pursued conservation collar.

4979
08:17:33,990 --> 08:17:35,710
Over an eight million dollar offer.

4980
08:17:35,710 --> 08:17:42,210
We shook the trees as best we could with owners and investors and none of those paned out.

4981
08:17:42,390 --> 08:17:46,950
I guess my question is, before you defaulted, it's just, you know, the golf court

4982
08:17:46,950 --> 08:17:51,710
option did your owner, especially since they've lived here for so long, I got to think

4983
08:17:51,710 --> 08:17:56,970
they know, you know, the agricultural community really well, and they're very well connected.

4984
08:17:57,750 --> 08:18:04,310
They explore or entertain any other options to sell this property and people were saying,

4985
08:18:04,310 --> 08:18:09,290
I didn't see it on the MLS list thing, but a lot of times that's not how big pieces of property get sold.

4986
08:18:09,670 --> 08:18:16,810
But was there any kind of conversation that you were going or had to try to see if anybody wanted to take over the orange growth, turn it into something else?

4987
08:18:16,830 --> 08:18:25,770
Well, to take it over and sell it to someone else would have required someone to clear out the groves and replant it with something else.

4988
08:18:26,210 --> 08:18:33,770
So they know, because they're in the farming business, that that was not going to not going to return any type of reasonable investment.

4989
08:18:33,770 --> 08:18:35,890
I mean, I assume with their connections, I mean,

4990
08:18:36,050 --> 08:18:38,930
if somebody was interested, they would have been banging on their door,

4991
08:18:39,030 --> 08:18:42,190
and knowing that they were wanting a bail from the orange grove,

4992
08:18:42,350 --> 08:18:46,790
and if somebody, and their line of work was interested,

4993
08:18:47,590 --> 08:18:49,210
there would have been some sort of their risk.

4994
08:18:49,930 --> 08:18:52,530
I guess my final question, not my final,

4995
08:18:53,610 --> 08:18:57,710
but they didn't turn down any offers before they saw it or not.

4996
08:18:57,990 --> 08:18:59,870
Other than the concentration collar offer,

4997
08:19:00,710 --> 08:19:01,890
it was the only thing that they've turned down,

4998
08:19:01,890 --> 08:19:04,630
And I'm still waiting for the offer from Brad's clients.

4999
08:19:04,910 --> 08:19:05,770
Yeah, I'm sorry.

5000
08:19:05,970 --> 08:19:07,890
I'm still waiting for the offer from Brad's.

5001
08:19:08,770 --> 08:19:09,310
Mr. Cornel.

5002
08:19:09,350 --> 08:19:09,570
Mr. Cornel.

5003
08:19:10,530 --> 08:19:15,930
Well, I mean, and I think they did reach out to their people, but a lot of people have really great

5004
08:19:15,930 --> 08:19:17,590
ideas, but not the cash flow.

5005
08:19:18,410 --> 08:19:22,770
You know, one thing I will say about golf courses is, I mean, when people say they're not needed.

5006
08:19:23,730 --> 08:19:24,930
Our golf courses really needed.

5007
08:19:25,390 --> 08:19:28,250
I mean, we get the same question about a tangible housing.

5008
08:19:28,430 --> 08:19:30,350
When people say, oh, you've over-built it to death.

5009
08:19:30,350 --> 08:19:35,450
minute we've kind of ribbon on it is a weightless of 400 so I will say from what I know

5010
08:19:35,450 --> 08:19:39,170
from the golf courses in District 1 and I'm saying I'm sitting here supporting this but

5011
08:19:39,170 --> 08:19:43,890
just to speak on the fact there is a two or three year weight I mean when the when

5012
08:19:43,890 --> 08:19:48,030
Habiscus turns into the lantern they already have more people that are interested in the

5013
08:19:48,030 --> 08:19:53,330
lantern and you know it's not for us to say they can't or can't do that so um there is I

5014
08:19:53,330 --> 08:19:59,030
know some people that don't you know maybe don't believe the the facts there but you know

5015
08:19:59,030 --> 08:20:03,030
where we see that all the time and you know we I may have loved how

5016
08:20:03,030 --> 08:20:06,190
biscuits to say a public off course but you know we don't have the legal

5017
08:20:06,190 --> 08:20:08,790
right to tell somebody what to do with their property.

5018
08:20:10,950 --> 08:20:11,910
I will tell you the

5019
08:20:11,910 --> 08:20:17,490
one thing I'm struggling with is I wouldn't support this at all with the

5020
08:20:17,490 --> 08:20:23,530
cottages and and here's why and here's why. First of all I like the idea

5021
08:20:23,530 --> 08:20:27,890
that it it give this a more definitive unless I misunderstood our county

5022
08:20:27,890 --> 08:20:31,670
attorney gives us a more definitive way to prevent, prevent growth, prevent,

5023
08:20:32,450 --> 08:20:34,110
live local to creep in.

5024
08:20:34,290 --> 08:20:37,650
It's more of a guarantee.

5025
08:20:37,990 --> 08:20:42,050
And I guess there's never any guarantees because your attorney could take us to court,

5026
08:20:42,050 --> 08:20:44,030
regardless of what we decide here and say, you know what?

5027
08:20:44,270 --> 08:20:46,590
I think the 423 homes should have been approved.

5028
08:20:46,970 --> 08:20:48,690
And so I try to play the game with the golf course,

5029
08:20:49,230 --> 08:20:52,970
with conservation collier and let's take the houses to court.

5030
08:20:54,150 --> 08:20:55,690
And I don't know what our attorney thinks,

5031
08:20:55,690 --> 08:20:58,230
but there's always a chance that could be overturned.

5032
08:20:58,270 --> 08:20:59,350
But let me get back to the cottages.

5033
08:21:00,610 --> 08:21:04,870
So protecting us from local is a big thing on my list.

5034
08:21:05,430 --> 08:21:06,390
I don't think they're required.

5035
08:21:06,650 --> 08:21:09,110
I think they're a nice to have, not a must have.

5036
08:21:09,890 --> 08:21:11,570
I think regardless of the footprint,

5037
08:21:12,050 --> 08:21:13,810
10, 4 bedroom cottages.

5038
08:21:14,190 --> 08:21:17,270
Okay, I have a 3 bedroom house in Marko Island,

5039
08:21:17,370 --> 08:21:19,210
and it's a original deltone at home.

5040
08:21:19,490 --> 08:21:22,890
So it's tiny, but if you put 10 of them in a row,

5041
08:21:22,990 --> 08:21:24,930
that's a pretty big footprint.

5042
08:21:25,590 --> 08:21:30,190
And so I think, but not having the cottages, you would have even, I'm still not

5043
08:21:30,190 --> 08:21:33,430
saying I'm supporting this, but I'm trying to brainstorm my way through the things that

5044
08:21:33,430 --> 08:21:37,610
I'm struggling with or that I think are showstoppers for me, and I think it would open

5045
08:21:37,610 --> 08:21:43,790
up more space, and it would be more of a natural habitat, not ten buildings, and then of course

5046
08:21:43,790 --> 08:21:46,670
now we're talking, of course you got the club house in the restaurant, I would at least

5047
08:21:46,670 --> 08:21:49,750
limit the structures on the property.

5048
08:21:50,930 --> 08:21:56,810
added to that if you had the ten cottages, I mean, I've played golf at a lot of different places

5049
08:21:56,810 --> 08:22:01,830
then you spend the night there, you know, you don't play golf and go to bed, you know, you have a great time,

5050
08:22:01,930 --> 08:22:07,710
you're outside, lights are all lit up. So if we're saying that, you know, this golf course would create a natural habitat,

5051
08:22:08,170 --> 08:22:17,230
I think ten four bedroom cottages is a significant amount of people and I bet they would always be full, especially during season.

5052
08:22:18,370 --> 08:22:29,970
You know, much like we see on Marco Island like I said with the lights, with the turtles, I think that type of activity would, would prohibit us looking at it as, and you know, a, you know, a

5053
08:22:30,000 --> 08:22:48,780
A natural habitat in the evening, and there was even some things written on one. You know, when the sun goes down, then obviously on the golfer stop, and then the animals, you know, they're, they're, they're, they'll be walking all over the golf course. I think the cottages could, could be a significant, could significantly hamper that.

5054
08:22:49,340 --> 08:22:54,920
You know, golfers can obviously come and stay elsewhere. We got plenty of places within a stone's road.

5055
08:22:57,580 --> 08:23:23,420
So there's plenty of places around that would create business, and then, you know, similar to what I said before, you know, you talk about these Panthers and other wild life being nocturnal. So the less lights that would be on heck, I'm getting complaints right now for some apartment complexes that are in that same sort of location that the lights and the parking lots are too bright, and that they do get wild life that cut through certain areas.

5056
08:23:23,420 --> 08:23:52,160
So the cottages for me are our no-go and unless I hear something, you know, totally out of blue here from my colleagues, but, you know, that's something that I just think is a nice to have, not a much to have, and it would limit the construction, it would limit the evening activities, it would protect us from live local. But that would only be if we approved this. If I'm an overall no vote, then I don't really care about cottages because I'd be a no vote across the board.

5057
08:23:52,160 --> 08:23:57,500
But I don't know what your, you know, your regal room is on the cottages, but I wouldn't

5058
08:23:57,500 --> 08:24:02,440
support this at all with those structures being built, you know, with those cottages being

5059
08:24:02,440 --> 08:24:02,660
on there.

5060
08:24:02,660 --> 08:24:03,800
For the reasons I mentioned.

5061
08:24:04,560 --> 08:24:08,680
And I think I said early on, one of the options was to remove cottages altogether.

5062
08:24:10,020 --> 08:24:15,440
If that's a concern about interfering with the wildlife at night or somehow leading

5063
08:24:15,440 --> 08:24:22,580
to a liberal local acclaim, the cottages are a nice amenity for the members, but they're

5064
08:24:22,580 --> 08:24:24,640
not an essential amenity for the members.

5065
08:24:25,160 --> 08:24:33,120
So we're willing to remove the 10 transient cottages from both the complement amendment and

5066
08:24:33,120 --> 08:24:33,460
the pediatric.

5067
08:24:33,600 --> 08:24:37,900
Let me see this one last question about the orange grove, I mean obviously it's your client,

5068
08:24:38,500 --> 08:24:43,200
and so I haven't been out there a thousand times, I've been out there.

5069
08:24:43,200 --> 08:24:49,220
I would assume they get plenty of deliveries. I remember the, I think it was the sun when I had my

5070
08:24:49,220 --> 08:24:52,200
Four and a half hour town hall meeting at

5071
08:24:52,200 --> 08:24:56,800
Veronica Walk, where's my Veronica Walk people you all remember that did you stay who's state to the end, right?

5072
08:24:57,620 --> 08:25:01,960
I'm catching all these spheres from and Trinity Scott was they're catching all these spheres and

5073
08:25:02,740 --> 08:25:10,260
Rocks from the Veronica Walk people and we're not even even close to discussing this and then I come to find out the son of the orange Grove owner

5074
08:25:10,260 --> 08:25:15,440
is sitting in the back the entire time and then comes up to me when it's over and I said,

5075
08:25:15,780 --> 08:25:21,540
buddy, you could have walked up here and sort of helped me out a little bit in the conversation,

5076
08:25:23,320 --> 08:25:28,800
but that didn't happen. But one of the things he did say is he says a lot of people love the

5077
08:25:28,800 --> 08:25:35,100
orange grove and they come here to buy this, that and I don't want to, I might be over summarizing,

5078
08:25:35,220 --> 08:25:39,740
but what I remember sort of hearing is the vast majority of what we sell at the orange grove

5079
08:25:39,740 --> 08:25:46,840
isn't grown there, the trees are sort of a photo op and everything else is sort of brought in.

5080
08:25:47,000 --> 08:25:51,880
So it's not like even though we say it's a dead orange grove or whatnot, it really is just a storm or

5081
08:25:51,880 --> 08:25:52,100
shop.

5082
08:25:52,540 --> 08:25:56,980
So it gets me to my point that I would expect there's a fair amount of truck traffic that's

5083
08:25:56,980 --> 08:26:00,320
delivering all the things that are keeping that place, you know, a float.

5084
08:26:01,320 --> 08:26:04,200
Everybody's coming up here saying how much they enjoy the orange grove.

5085
08:26:04,440 --> 08:26:06,360
So I don't know how many customers they see a day.

5086
08:26:06,360 --> 08:26:10,840
But it sounds like a fair amount based on it's about a hundred fifty cars a day

5087
08:26:11,120 --> 08:26:13,280
You know for people coming there to buy

5088
08:26:14,760 --> 08:26:20,900
Plus deliveries and all those kind of things so similar it's again, and I didn't we can count any of that

5089
08:26:20,900 --> 08:26:22,660
In fact or any of that in to the golf course

5090
08:26:24,120 --> 08:26:28,520
Traffic you know, I think Commissioner Saunders asked me early on. What did I think the average number of rounds

5091
08:26:28,520 --> 08:26:33,840
At a typical day is 70 to 90 rounds, which is not a lot a lot of golf

5092
08:26:33,840 --> 08:26:38,480
It's really not a lot of, it's not a lot of cars going up and down that road.

5093
08:26:38,640 --> 08:26:41,460
It's probably almost a wash from what's probably there today.

5094
08:26:41,820 --> 08:26:46,180
In the off season, was there any discussion, I don't know, like you said, you know, I'm

5095
08:26:46,180 --> 08:26:49,540
blue prints of the course, you haven't done this deep dive, you just pitched in the idea.

5096
08:26:49,960 --> 08:26:53,680
But was there any conversation that, hey, we've got these 300 members, but a lot of them

5097
08:26:53,680 --> 08:26:57,820
are going to be seasonal, that the course could possibly be open to the public and the

5098
08:26:57,820 --> 08:27:01,360
off season, because I mean, I'm, you know, people can play like a laily the whole, whenever

5099
08:27:01,360 --> 08:27:01,780
they want.

5100
08:27:01,780 --> 08:27:07,760
But most of these courses, and probably this course as well, are closer to the summer, as

5101
08:27:07,760 --> 08:27:11,800
when they do their—oh, closed in the summer, usually they close in the summer to do their

5102
08:27:11,800 --> 08:27:16,860
renovations, or rehabilitation, or, you know, of course, you know, get it ready for the next

5103
08:27:16,860 --> 08:27:17,620
to the next season.

5104
08:27:17,980 --> 08:27:26,720
A lot of these courses are closed in the summer anyway, so there's a limited golf season

5105
08:27:26,720 --> 08:27:28,260
if you will at these types of courses.

5106
08:27:30,310 --> 08:27:35,890
Well, one thing I will say is our direction to you was to shake the trees as hard as we

5107
08:27:35,890 --> 08:27:41,290
were shaking them and one of the biggest, the list of big pushbacks when we were in here

5108
08:27:41,290 --> 08:27:46,910
talking about the 423 houses was people hated the traffic because of course 423 houses

5109
08:27:46,910 --> 08:27:51,890
were generated in a fair amount of traffic that in the construction of the density of the urban

5110
08:27:52,370 --> 08:27:52,830
sprawl.

5111
08:27:52,830 --> 08:28:10,750
I mean, I will say, you know, you brought us something that minimizes or or or eliminates, you know, all those things, but I'm still struggling with some, some things in here and I still think, you know, we just before you were in here, we made a decision on the growth management plan for something that was way smaller than this.

5112
08:28:11,010 --> 08:28:19,930
And it seemed like we all had some issues that, you know, we were going to be violating the growth management plan for for a totally different project, but it had a lot less moving parts.

5113
08:28:19,930 --> 08:28:28,250
And so even though I know what Mr. Bozi said that as far as moving parts go, this one is a lot less than what it could be.

5114
08:28:28,990 --> 08:28:34,730
We're still having to override quite a few things to say yes to this.

5115
08:28:34,870 --> 08:28:36,970
Not to say that we haven't done that in the past.

5116
08:28:37,090 --> 08:28:42,190
If we thought it was in the best interest of the county and the landowner and whatnot,

5117
08:28:42,830 --> 08:28:44,650
but I'm struggling with those sort of things.

5118
08:28:44,790 --> 08:28:49,390
Maybe that sets the table a little bit from my colleagues to sort of pick up where I left off.

5119
08:28:49,390 --> 08:28:56,170
But those are the things on my short list that are big speed bumps for me to approve this.

5120
08:28:56,790 --> 08:28:58,350
Mr. Hall, thank you, Chairman.

5121
08:28:59,970 --> 08:29:02,930
I can sum that my comments up in 60 seconds.

5122
08:29:04,730 --> 08:29:08,950
I won't support the 10 cottages, so I'm glad to hear you say you can do it out that.

5123
08:29:09,450 --> 08:29:12,410
I will support the golf course, and I think it's a super low impact.

5124
08:29:12,830 --> 08:29:15,210
It's way better than 423 homes.

5125
08:29:15,210 --> 08:29:19,190
I do want to address the comments about conservation carrier.

5126
08:29:20,750 --> 08:29:21,610
Nobody's listening.

5127
08:29:22,330 --> 08:29:26,710
You got your own opinions and you're going to stick to them, but the truth is, conservation

5128
08:29:26,710 --> 08:29:27,970
carrier is well funded.

5129
08:29:28,470 --> 08:29:36,410
We didn't buy this property from conservation carrier because we took 29 million or the conservation

5130
08:29:36,410 --> 08:29:38,770
carrier program doesn't have any money.

5131
08:29:38,770 --> 08:29:44,910
We couldn't buy the property because the seller wasn't willing to cooperate.

5132
08:29:45,910 --> 08:29:47,370
And that's what I've said all along.

5133
08:29:47,670 --> 08:29:48,370
It's not funding.

5134
08:29:49,210 --> 08:29:50,570
We're subject to willing sellers.

5135
08:29:51,750 --> 08:29:53,730
So I hope you get that.

5136
08:29:54,330 --> 08:29:57,570
And I hope you record it, and I hope you get it, and you watch it again.

5137
08:29:58,470 --> 08:29:59,970
Controversion Collier is well-funded.

5138
08:30:00,660 --> 08:30:11,040
It's not has anything to do with us not being able to purchase. I will support the project without the houses.

5139
08:30:11,400 --> 08:30:12,460
Mr. McDaniel.

5140
08:30:13,180 --> 08:30:14,920
I think that was longer than 60 cents.

5141
08:30:16,640 --> 08:30:20,040
I got a lot of track of time, a long time ago.

5142
08:30:20,720 --> 08:30:26,360
I got a, in precept, I'm in support of the project.

5143
08:30:27,180 --> 08:30:33,500
The public benefit here, and I have talked about this at Nazium, you have, we have an enormous

5144
08:30:33,500 --> 08:30:37,920
amount of flooding on the north side of Sabel Palm, the water conveyance coming from

5145
08:30:37,920 --> 08:30:41,600
Sabel, north of Sabel Palm underneath isn't there.

5146
08:30:42,900 --> 08:30:50,340
You've committed to a system, and I'd like the 90-day provision for the developer at Tamarindow

5147
08:30:50,340 --> 08:30:56,660
to get with you, to negotiate, to take their excess water, that's imperative for that

5148
08:30:56,660 --> 08:30:57,000
community.

5149
08:30:57,740 --> 08:31:01,820
We have a huge issue with Tamarind, or you know this as well, they just flooded last

5150
08:31:01,820 --> 08:31:05,620
weekend with that little shower that we had last weekend.

5151
08:31:06,780 --> 08:31:11,640
So, not that they don't have other internal issues, but the fact that you'll take that water,

5152
08:31:11,820 --> 08:31:16,960
the fact that you'll work with them and do the plumbing underneath, sable palm road to allow

5153
08:31:16,960 --> 08:31:21,960
for that convinced. The fact that you'll take that water as it flows out, bring it through

5154
08:31:21,960 --> 08:31:27,920
your lake systems, and then have it in a control structure outlet. We're going to call

5155
08:31:27,920 --> 08:31:35,300
Mr. Hall said, having a control structure is a far better way to disperse water than it

5156
08:31:35,300 --> 08:31:44,640
is the current methodology and the pump. I'm totally fine if we eliminate, I wasn't necessarily

5157
08:31:44,640 --> 08:31:51,200
opposition of the cottages, but I don't ever want to trigger the capacity for somebody to come and do the

5158
08:31:51,200 --> 08:31:51,860
live local.

5159
08:31:53,980 --> 08:31:54,820
I want

5160
08:31:58,850 --> 08:32:03,110
to hear that you're going to pay your proportion at share when traffic says a signal

5161
08:32:03,110 --> 08:32:11,730
can go. I say we'll palm in 951. I don't know that you said you would do that. I will pay our 57 trips worth of traffic signal.

5162
08:32:11,730 --> 08:32:18,710
maybe more. That's what I'm supposed to share. Well, and does that 57 trips count the

5163
08:32:18,710 --> 08:32:22,430
trips in and out for deliveries and food? That's the peak hour trips is 57 hours.

5164
08:32:23,590 --> 08:32:28,190
How ever Trinity normally counts? If she doesn't have a daily trip, we'll do it on a daily trip.

5165
08:32:28,230 --> 08:32:33,890
So I'll get the help Trinity count your trips. No, however, Trinity counts. Okay, okay, okay,

5166
08:32:34,050 --> 08:32:41,390
so you will pay your proportion that's there on that. And then since you don't really have a plan,

5167
08:32:41,730 --> 08:32:47,630
Let's just make a plan with regard to the Clubhouse Commissioner Saunders asked,

5168
08:32:48,390 --> 08:32:56,730
I know when I joined my club, we were in a double-wide trailer for five years and quite

5169
08:32:56,730 --> 08:33:00,290
happy and had lockers and food and everything else in there.

5170
08:33:00,970 --> 08:33:04,890
So let's limit the Clubhouse to not exceed 10,000 feet.

5171
08:33:07,910 --> 08:33:11,370
I don't have my guy here to where I can complete it.

5172
08:33:11,370 --> 08:33:15,470
that a little bit of certainty so that we're not gonna end up with a Taj Mahal in there

5173
08:33:15,470 --> 08:33:17,430
at some stage.

5174
08:33:18,530 --> 08:33:22,170
In 10,000 feet to 10th, well it is.

5175
08:33:22,390 --> 08:33:24,410
10,000 square foot, back to Clubhouse.

5176
08:33:24,530 --> 08:33:24,710
Yes.

5177
08:33:25,230 --> 08:33:25,830
That's what it was like.

5178
08:33:26,290 --> 08:33:27,770
The court house was originally.

5179
08:33:28,150 --> 08:33:29,690
It made things to everything else to separate.

5180
08:33:29,870 --> 08:33:35,430
I talked about the Clubhouse facilities where people are going to be coming and having to do whatever it is to do it.

5181
08:33:35,750 --> 08:33:41,350
So we limit that add some certainty to one of the questions that you could.

5182
08:33:41,350 --> 08:33:48,490
answer or so. And you are going to do the written notice for the prescribed burns to the

5183
08:33:48,490 --> 08:33:53,970
membership. Yes. When they join, you'll do that. Okay. That's all I had.

5184
08:33:55,960 --> 08:34:01,800
Mr. Caster, follow up. If we did away with the cottages, then the trips up and down that road

5185
08:34:01,800 --> 08:34:05,600
would increase because instead of somebody spending the night in park in the car and leaving it there

5186
08:34:05,600 --> 08:34:08,940
for two or three nights now, they got to go back and forth if they want to play the whole weekend.

5187
08:34:08,940 --> 08:34:14,040
I remember my 57 trips was assuming I was a regular golf course and not a private golf course.

5188
08:34:14,080 --> 08:34:18,120
It was over a statement. It was an overstatement of trips in the first place.

5189
08:34:19,640 --> 08:34:26,220
Because the way the IT manual is they lump, they lump public golf courses, residential community golf courses.

5190
08:34:26,380 --> 08:34:29,420
They don't have a separate category for our type of golf course.

5191
08:34:29,620 --> 08:34:32,980
So it's a conservative overstatement of traffic.

5192
08:34:32,980 --> 08:34:38,900
Was do you think if you're open from sun up to sun down to play the feet? You said it peak hour

5193
08:34:39,840 --> 08:34:45,320
Yeah, okay, so that was the measure. That was in your total number. No, no, no, that's the peak hour trip. But it was still

5194
08:34:46,180 --> 08:34:47,900
I mean, would you say

5195
08:34:47,900 --> 08:34:54,420
It would be unaffected whether you had the cottages or not it would be it's gonna be in it's gonna be a minimal or

5196
08:34:54,420 --> 08:35:02,900
No impact I'm real traffic by eliminating the cottages. I I'm dealing like you said with tamarindo and it's really

5197
08:35:02,980 --> 08:35:04,980
not just us, it's the south of Florida,

5198
08:35:05,140 --> 08:35:07,220
water management district, and it's not just

5199
08:35:07,220 --> 08:35:07,940
sitting with the county.

5200
08:35:08,660 --> 08:35:11,580
But when you said, and I don't want to put words in your outfit,

5201
08:35:11,760 --> 08:35:14,720
you said, oh, it could be like about a $500,000 expense.

5202
08:35:15,580 --> 08:35:22,100
Is your client willing to commit to a minimum or a maximum number

5203
08:35:22,100 --> 08:35:25,880
of what they would invest once all the science was on,

5204
08:35:26,320 --> 08:35:29,040
or do you think that you'll have to communicate with

5205
08:35:29,040 --> 08:35:35,640
and I'm trying to help where you can to to to to to I've already had conversations

5206
08:35:35,640 --> 08:35:41,460
but timber and both of those aspects. The dollar amount and it's the developer. It's not

5207
08:35:41,460 --> 08:35:46,740
the resident. It's the developer of timber and though as to that dollar amount and taking

5208
08:35:46,740 --> 08:35:54,180
on their extra taking their capacity and they didn't blink. So what you're saying is whatever

5209
08:35:54,180 --> 08:36:01,400
that cost would be, they're going to pay it, they're going to pay it, they're going to pay it.

5210
08:36:02,180 --> 08:36:09,680
But we can, this project can be a solution for a lot of people's problems right now.

5211
08:36:10,040 --> 08:36:15,460
If Tamarinda wants to come and use our property to disperse the water.

5212
08:36:16,020 --> 08:36:20,940
And by using, yes, you have some sort of investment, though, to make all that work as well.

5213
08:36:21,120 --> 08:36:22,880
It's not just you going, yeah, pour your water on it.

5214
08:36:22,880 --> 08:36:31,120
Well, we have to one, we have to size our pipes and we have to make sure everything works, but they're going to pay the cost of the upside thing and taking care of all that.

5215
08:36:31,960 --> 08:36:38,940
Well, it sounds like, you know, I mean, the colleges were a deal breaker for me and it sounds like Commissioner Hall and Commissioner McDaniel degree.

5216
08:36:41,660 --> 08:36:42,980
So I'm happy with that.

5217
08:36:43,060 --> 08:36:45,360
I don't know if Commissioner Saunders or Colahab anything.

5218
08:36:46,340 --> 08:36:47,140
Mr. Saunders.

5219
08:36:47,440 --> 08:36:47,720
I'm sorry.

5220
08:36:47,720 --> 08:36:48,100
Thank you.

5221
08:36:48,100 --> 08:37:03,100
I was very interested in listening to Commissioner of Castro because it's his district and we usually place a lot of weight on the district commissioner and what the district commissioner's opinion is.

5222
08:37:04,240 --> 08:37:08,420
I've got some issues with this.

5223
08:37:08,420 --> 08:37:13,260
You know, I've been kind of on the fence on this for a long time.

5224
08:37:14,680 --> 08:37:18,820
There's a lot of stuff that's been said like a dignified exit.

5225
08:37:20,020 --> 08:37:21,880
The landowner needs a fair outcome.

5226
08:37:23,200 --> 08:37:24,820
I don't know that any of that's relevant.

5227
08:37:26,040 --> 08:37:29,080
I've got a property under that has a piece of property that is problematic.

5228
08:37:30,000 --> 08:37:36,660
I don't think it's incumbent upon the board to find a fair exit or fair outcome for the

5229
08:37:36,660 --> 08:37:41,620
property owner. That doesn't mean I'm going to vote against this project. It just means that I just

5230
08:37:41,620 --> 08:37:52,320
don't think that's a particularly good reason to consider it. I am very concerned about the panther habitat and the peace

5231
08:37:52,320 --> 08:37:55,240
I think of some of these types of developments going forward.

5232
08:37:56,180 --> 08:38:02,780
So I'm probably going to vote against this, because I just don't like the concept of

5233
08:38:02,780 --> 08:38:04,080
changing the comp plan.

5234
08:38:04,580 --> 08:38:07,880
I understand that this is a little different than a lot of things we've been dealing with.

5235
08:38:08,180 --> 08:38:10,600
But we have a lot of people that are really disappointed.

5236
08:38:11,680 --> 08:38:16,620
In fact, they're not going to have the same quiet enjoyment that they had when they purchased

5237
08:38:16,620 --> 08:38:17,020
them.

5238
08:38:17,020 --> 08:38:18,400
I'm very concerned about that.

5239
08:38:18,400 --> 08:38:25,700
So, I'm still listening, you know, I'm really on defense here, but I'm kind of leaning towards,

5240
08:38:25,700 --> 08:38:29,240
I think that I think that the property owner has speech property just has to deal with,

5241
08:38:29,360 --> 08:38:37,160
as opposed to us having to solve his problem. So, still, still weighing the issues here.

5242
08:38:39,950 --> 08:38:40,690
Mr. McGangel,

5243
08:38:43,700 --> 08:38:44,940
what I was going to say.

5244
08:38:47,040 --> 08:38:49,580
I just had one comment with regard to

5245
08:38:50,560 --> 08:38:57,440
the allegations of it being our responsibility to fix the landowners problem. That's not the issue that's here.

5246
08:38:57,740 --> 08:39:08,880
I think this is a fine compromise for a use of this piece of property enhancement of water conveyance from the north to the south.

5247
08:39:08,880 --> 08:39:17,180
Like it or don't, there are environmental benefits that come from the utilization of this property as a golf course.

5248
08:39:17,500 --> 08:39:21,160
Habitat, food source for the panther, so on and so forth.

5249
08:39:22,600 --> 08:39:28,980
The huge thing for me is the public benefit associated with the water conveyance and moving the...

5250
08:39:28,980 --> 08:39:33,140
You're doing the culverts underneath, stable palm, one way or the other.

5251
08:39:33,180 --> 08:39:35,420
Correct. Correct. So that's happening.

5252
08:39:35,420 --> 08:39:41,740
And that conveyance is, it's imperative, I mean, you have, you have Hustiana Lake setting

5253
08:39:41,740 --> 08:39:48,700
up here at an elevation of the 11.2 or something, and their excess flow comes out here,

5254
08:39:48,780 --> 08:39:52,940
and you've got the South Florida Water Management District pumps over in the PICU and State

5255
08:39:52,940 --> 08:39:59,340
Forest that pump back to the west, all this rehydration efforts occurring up here, and then

5256
08:39:59,340 --> 08:40:02,400
the water comes to get to the, you've heard me say it.

5257
08:40:02,400 --> 08:40:08,340
I've called say upon the damn damn the water sits here can't get under and so those culverts are

5258
08:40:08,340 --> 08:40:14,500
Appared for the conveyance of the water that's on the north side and the flood alleviation not just for tamarind

5259
08:40:14,500 --> 08:40:19,980
Tamarindo has a separate issue because they're elevations like eight and half feet and

5260
08:40:19,980 --> 08:40:26,700
Hussein does it 11 so you you've got a head differential of pushing water when they're stacking water up here

5261
08:40:26,700 --> 08:40:31,260
It's coming up down here so and and they're only answer so far

5262
08:40:31,260 --> 08:40:37,940
And I think they're on their second engineer is get the South Water Management to lift the

5263
08:40:37,940 --> 08:40:40,560
restrictions on their outflow into the Henderson Canal.

5264
08:40:40,960 --> 08:40:45,840
And they're not going to do that because that dumps an enormous amount of storm water

5265
08:40:45,840 --> 08:40:51,620
into the Henderson Canal, which is a straight shot into Uruguay Bay and Henderson Creek.

5266
08:40:54,930 --> 08:41:00,330
So all of those things aside, is it our job to fix the seller's issue?

5267
08:41:01,010 --> 08:41:08,190
I mean, do we, do we have to refer this week in technical, we can say no, but I think given

5268
08:41:08,190 --> 08:41:15,750
the public benefit, given those, given those, the additional issues that are being supported

5269
08:41:15,750 --> 08:41:16,390
with this.

5270
08:41:16,790 --> 08:41:20,310
I think it's a fine compromise if you want to call it that.

5271
08:41:24,480 --> 08:41:25,180
Mr. Lukasher.

5272
08:41:25,320 --> 08:41:30,180
Yeah, the other thing I look at is, and this is the perfect map to put up, but this puzzle

5273
08:41:30,180 --> 08:41:32,820
piece exists that right here, and it was on Dutch land, right?

5274
08:41:32,820 --> 08:41:35,540
It was just, it was just, you know, wildlife land,

5275
08:41:35,640 --> 08:41:39,040
and it was, you know, being used towards a totally different story.

5276
08:41:39,680 --> 08:41:45,040
There were, you know, what I will say to my constituents is a lot of folks

5277
08:41:45,040 --> 08:41:49,100
did send us notes and come to the podium, talking like it's that.

5278
08:41:49,180 --> 08:41:53,260
But it's a store, it's a, it's a, it's a orange grow of a dying orange grow.

5279
08:41:53,420 --> 08:41:59,260
It's not in great shape, you know, so you sit here and say we can just let it sit

5280
08:41:59,260 --> 08:42:02,720
the way it is and maybe people are happy that there's, there's nothing that's going

5281
08:42:02,720 --> 08:42:11,460
be done there but a lot of improvement would come and I think there'd be less of structures

5282
08:42:12,020 --> 08:42:18,700
and it would be more improvement not only for the water flow but for the land so I'm

5283
08:42:18,700 --> 08:42:23,040
much like Commissioner Saunders I'm not everybody wants to follow my lead but we're all

5284
08:42:23,040 --> 08:42:28,800
experienced folks in here and I'm on the fence a little bit on that as well but I look

5285
08:42:28,800 --> 08:42:35,460
and I go, you know, is this better than if this was just on touch land, Pekno? Is it better

5286
08:42:35,460 --> 08:42:40,680
than an orange grove that, you know, has trucks coming down the road, you know, people are buying

5287
08:42:40,680 --> 08:42:45,840
stuff that doesn't even grow there, the trees are dying, you got a land that's totally saturated,

5288
08:42:45,920 --> 08:42:52,020
I'm sure, with decades worth of fertilizer that's going to have to be remediated to a much

5289
08:42:52,020 --> 08:42:58,780
more acceptable level. And this may be the chance to actually do it. So, you know, that's

5290
08:42:58,780 --> 08:43:03,940
something that I think is on the plus side. You know, I'm trying to line up pluses and minuses.

5291
08:43:04,100 --> 08:43:08,760
This one doesn't have an easy fast answer. It might for some citizens who just say,

5292
08:43:08,820 --> 08:43:13,360
vote no and a lot of the notes that we got. I didn't have a lot of details behind it. It was just

5293
08:43:13,360 --> 08:43:17,340
we don't want it. Vote no and it doesn't really work that way. We have to figure out a legal and

5294
08:43:17,340 --> 08:43:21,880
environmental reason that we can support, but I look at it and say, if you did away with the

5295
08:43:21,880 --> 08:43:25,460
cottages, it does away with the lighting and all the other things that are associated with

5296
08:43:25,460 --> 08:43:30,040
the cottages, it does away with the housekeepers, it does away with, there's probably

5297
08:43:30,040 --> 08:43:36,460
a much smaller employee staff because you don't have the cottages, so they're not being serviced

5298
08:43:36,460 --> 08:43:37,420
and whatnot.

5299
08:43:37,780 --> 08:43:40,620
And then I think of the other improvements that would be on there.

5300
08:43:40,620 --> 08:43:54,720
You know, it might be the lesser of all the evils, and in the end, it improves that land right now that is not in great shape, and we would hold you to a very high standard if we were to approve this.

5301
08:44:00,930 --> 08:44:02,110
Thank you for Mr. Fosie.

5302
08:44:02,250 --> 08:44:03,510
We're going to need less.

5303
08:44:05,110 --> 08:44:06,130
Oh, okay. Sorry.

5304
08:44:06,570 --> 08:44:07,190
Yes, I'm done.

5305
08:44:08,290 --> 08:44:09,790
Mr. Fosie.

5306
08:44:10,490 --> 08:44:11,750
They commented on a couple things.

5307
08:44:13,130 --> 08:44:21,870
When we look at the sending lands issue, for example, we're not talking about preserving

5308
08:44:21,870 --> 08:44:28,710
land for next year or the next five years. We're really talking about preserving lands

5309
08:44:28,710 --> 08:44:33,910
for the long-term future of the county. So this has been designated as sending land. It's

5310
08:44:33,910 --> 08:44:41,550
an orange grove now that isn't working. Well, what's it going to be like if it is used as a

5311
08:44:41,550 --> 08:44:45,410
landing land in 10 years from now, 15 years now, what is it going to look like?

5312
08:44:45,750 --> 08:44:51,990
But most likely, it's going to look like the forested parts of Florida because it doesn't

5313
08:44:51,990 --> 08:44:56,230
take long for the natural growth to come back and all.

5314
08:44:56,570 --> 08:44:59,970
So we're not really talking about, okay, this is impacted land.

5315
08:45:01,100 --> 08:45:10,260
And therefore, it's not valuable land for the future, because I think it could be. And I think that's why it's been designated as a sending plan.

5316
08:45:10,540 --> 08:45:19,420
So, I'm going to stick with the comp plan the way it is. I know this is going to pass this afternoon, but that's my rationale for that.

5317
08:45:24,770 --> 08:45:31,450
And then we're comments, all right, you know, I did a lot of research on this just on my own

5318
08:45:31,450 --> 08:45:39,210
just thinking about golf courses and benefits and negative impact, you know, and I know to the

5319
08:45:39,210 --> 08:45:45,730
east, you know, this is definitely predominant panther area, they do hunt in this area, they do

5320
08:45:45,730 --> 08:45:52,450
migrate through this area on a regular basis. And you know, and what it is now, like I said,

5321
08:45:52,450 --> 08:45:57,930
basically making a decision today is it came down to because we didn't have any too many other options.

5322
08:45:58,650 --> 08:46:03,630
You know, we started this day and started this conversation. A lot of things were exhausted.

5323
08:46:04,150 --> 08:46:06,250
I mean, the conservation quality of things was exhausted.

5324
08:46:07,210 --> 08:46:12,990
The other independent organizations that spoke about interest on it never came to fruition.

5325
08:46:14,530 --> 08:46:18,570
In conservation, our own staff, you know, this never would have made our A list

5326
08:46:18,570 --> 08:46:24,150
The staff uses the actual process of determining this property.

5327
08:46:24,710 --> 08:46:32,210
You know, you heard our own staff say it would have been a deer, a sea, wouldn't have been an A.

5328
08:46:32,990 --> 08:46:35,530
So in that way, we wouldn't even made an offer on this property.

5329
08:46:35,770 --> 08:46:39,490
But we wanted to go down every avenue.

5330
08:46:40,610 --> 08:46:44,170
You know, to make sure we were not, you know, overlooking something.

5331
08:46:45,090 --> 08:46:50,810
And like Commissioner Hall said, we're steady, we're strong in the fund and

5332
08:46:50,810 --> 08:46:53,030
conservation quality as nothing to do it.

5333
08:46:53,210 --> 08:46:55,670
When you guys leave here, we still have worked to do today.

5334
08:46:56,250 --> 08:47:01,990
We've got a piece of property that's priced at $7.8 million, that's a very, very, very

5335
08:47:01,990 --> 08:47:04,010
environmentally important piece of property.

5336
08:47:04,050 --> 08:47:06,730
And we're going to have that discussion while you guys all go home and eat dinner.

5337
08:47:07,850 --> 08:47:09,690
We still have to finish our agenda tonight.

5338
08:47:09,690 --> 08:47:33,510
But, you know, everything I've read, everything I looked at, you know, these particular, like golf courses do attract certain things like deer, hog, other small mammals, a lot of birds of prey that would typically would not be there if it was just a wooded lot or an orange growth is what it is now.

5339
08:47:33,510 --> 08:47:36,870
But it's basically a store with an ice cream store inside of it, because I've been there.

5340
08:47:37,090 --> 08:47:37,570
I have ice cream.

5341
08:47:37,710 --> 08:47:38,590
They will kind of get stuff.

5342
08:47:38,990 --> 08:47:43,310
So it's almost like a commercial market in reality that's there now.

5343
08:47:44,570 --> 08:47:50,210
And then the funny thing is when I saw the video of the Panthers, it almost reinforced

5344
08:47:50,210 --> 08:47:55,430
the fact that, is it, of course, going to restrict these Panthers at night when nobody's

5345
08:47:55,430 --> 08:48:00,970
on it to walk across when a mother panther is willing to take her babies into a community,

5346
08:48:00,970 --> 08:48:05,090
Literally walking around the lanaes at the back doors at his houses.

5347
08:48:05,430 --> 08:48:09,130
She's confident enough that she's safe to walk around in there.

5348
08:48:09,230 --> 08:48:14,050
Let alone walk to an 18-hole golf course, which I think the gentleman was talking about.

5349
08:48:14,270 --> 08:48:21,030
I think he's a zipper technique of bringing natural vegetation into the golf course.

5350
08:48:21,150 --> 08:48:25,570
He's the buffers, dividing the holes, and not bringing in foreign vegetation.

5351
08:48:26,150 --> 08:48:30,950
There's probably going to be more natural vegetation than there is right now, which I heard there's any three acres on the golf course.

5352
08:48:30,950 --> 08:48:37,630
course as the way it is or the grove as it is now. So in reality we're going to put more natural

5353
08:48:37,630 --> 08:48:45,770
vegetation. We're going to bring more potential wildlife to this piece of property sooner

5354
08:48:45,770 --> 08:48:50,990
than later. And I don't think it's going to hinder any panther from walking through in the

5355
08:48:50,990 --> 08:48:55,610
middle night, especially hunting for a number one source of food, which is white-tailed deer,

5356
08:48:56,110 --> 08:49:00,110
which are going to be attracted to this particular vegetation in this. And it's going to make

5357
08:49:00,110 --> 08:49:04,030
of our students, other wooded areas, they might know you'd have to go to the golf course

5358
08:49:04,030 --> 08:49:04,370
to the hunt.

5359
08:49:04,550 --> 08:49:08,670
It's probably going to walk right past their den on the highland areas, this around this already

5360
08:49:08,670 --> 08:49:09,310
in the woods.

5361
08:49:11,630 --> 08:49:16,710
So I had a couple of speakers and a lot of things they said, I think they were answered.

5362
08:49:17,690 --> 08:49:25,270
And I do agree with Commissioner McDaniel that there is some benefit because I know since

5363
08:49:25,270 --> 08:49:35,770
All of that, he started the projects in the south blocks and some other areas to rehydrate a lot of this natural flowway to the south and especially south to the stable palm road.

5364
08:49:36,090 --> 08:49:38,210
This has been a dam for a long time.

5365
08:49:38,330 --> 08:49:39,730
It's been backing up.

5366
08:49:40,030 --> 08:49:44,810
The young lady who was up here speaking, you know, it lives back up towards the north side there.

5367
08:49:44,890 --> 08:49:49,390
I'm sure there are property floods on a regular basis, because the water has nowhere to go.

5368
08:49:49,390 --> 08:49:55,450
And by having the developer willing to put these culverts in to get this flow of water,

5369
08:49:55,670 --> 08:50:00,670
we're naturally supposed to go keep flowing south to eventually make it down through the

5370
08:50:00,670 --> 08:50:03,990
Rookery area to the south.

5371
08:50:04,550 --> 08:50:05,570
That's a benefit.

5372
08:50:06,130 --> 08:50:07,530
Anyway, you look at it.

5373
08:50:07,730 --> 08:50:09,390
And nobody else is doing it.

5374
08:50:10,430 --> 08:50:11,570
Nobody's doing it right now.

5375
08:50:11,670 --> 08:50:12,910
And we don't know when it will happen.

5376
08:50:13,390 --> 08:50:17,490
And even if we let it grow into a wilderness 10, 15, 20 years,

5377
08:50:17,490 --> 08:50:22,130
now is a sending area. It doesn't mean it's called for it's going to get built. It doesn't

5378
08:50:22,130 --> 08:50:26,350
mean that water is going to actually do what it's supposed to do. The only way that happens

5379
08:50:26,350 --> 08:50:32,950
is to actually the golf course goes forward. So to me that is a public benefit, especially

5380
08:50:32,950 --> 08:50:37,270
for the people to live to the north of it to get flooded on a regular basis and it will help

5381
08:50:37,270 --> 08:50:44,850
hydrate that lands to the south, the way it's supposed to be, the natural flow. Yeah, I think

5382
08:50:46,270 --> 08:50:52,970
And I think, and I agree, we're not in the business or making sure this gentleman makes

5383
08:50:52,970 --> 08:50:57,790
a profit in his property, but we also are not in the business to hinder him with a product

5384
08:50:57,790 --> 08:51:04,090
and an idea to brought to us that is probably better than what they have now out there.

5385
08:51:04,710 --> 08:51:09,150
So, and we've already hinder it once, not a back for a second shot at it.

5386
08:51:09,150 --> 08:51:16,570
So, I'm going to have to agree, I have to, I'm going to support this without the cottages, guarantee that we do

5387
08:51:16,570 --> 08:51:24,190
are getting the culverts in place and then whatever other deal you work with the other community, I think

5388
08:51:24,190 --> 08:51:30,130
that's going to benefit a lot of people at the end of the day if that all comes to fruition and I can't

5389
08:51:30,130 --> 08:51:35,090
see, we can all say over and over again, it's going to be bad for pants, it's good for pants,

5390
08:51:37,850 --> 08:51:37,850
it's

5391
08:51:37,850 --> 08:51:39,750
evidence, I see you to Panthers and on

5392
08:51:39,750 --> 08:51:43,170
either by even by your how many houses are on a walk.

5393
08:51:43,550 --> 08:51:44,690
I mean, look at that picture.

5394
08:51:46,030 --> 08:51:47,730
How many houses is it?

5395
08:51:47,890 --> 08:51:50,430
When you have Panthers walking around the houses,

5396
08:51:51,170 --> 08:51:53,210
I mean, you brought the evidence, I didn't.

5397
08:51:53,830 --> 08:51:55,030
But it is what it is, man.

5398
08:51:55,430 --> 08:51:56,430
It's not an over with.

5399
08:51:56,890 --> 08:51:57,990
It's not an over with.

5400
08:52:00,170 --> 08:52:01,110
It's not an over with.

5401
08:52:03,010 --> 08:52:06,070
That was a security camera on a back of a lmao,

5402
08:52:06,070 --> 08:52:12,130
I saw the fence and I'm not arguing about where it was.

5403
08:52:12,390 --> 08:52:13,210
I saw my own eyes.

5404
08:52:13,350 --> 08:52:14,510
I know it was.

5405
08:52:14,750 --> 08:52:19,730
It actually reinforces the fact that the panthers are not hindered even by a large community

5406
08:52:19,730 --> 08:52:26,610
like that that safe enough to bring her cubs through, walking through a golf course and

5407
08:52:26,610 --> 08:52:29,970
in the middle of the night between two giant preserves is a lot.

5408
08:52:30,000 --> 08:52:47,540
It's not safer than walking in a community. That's all I'm saying. Let's just be realistic. I'm using common sense. I'm sorry. But that's the fact. So I'm going to support this moving forward. I don't think we have a motion. I got two more commissioners. I want to say something. I thought we were done. Good. Good.

5409
08:52:48,880 --> 08:52:59,140
But you keep bringing things up. It was mentioned earlier the County Attorney, this is important that you pay attention now this time.

5410
08:52:59,140 --> 08:53:02,140
I caught you messing around before and I got the attention.

5411
08:53:02,980 --> 08:53:05,060
There was, there was made mention.

5412
08:53:05,200 --> 08:53:07,120
I had a note and I didn't bring it up.

5413
08:53:07,980 --> 08:53:08,580
And S.B.

5414
08:53:09,580 --> 08:53:10,460
S.S.

5415
08:53:10,460 --> 08:53:10,500
S.S.

5416
08:53:10,500 --> 08:53:10,540
S.S.

5417
08:53:10,540 --> 08:53:10,600
S.S.

5418
08:53:10,600 --> 08:53:10,980
S.S.

5419
08:53:10,980 --> 08:53:11,160
S.S.

5420
08:53:11,160 --> 08:53:11,240
S.S.

5421
08:53:11,940 --> 08:53:12,020
S.S.S.S.

5422
08:53:12,020 --> 08:53:16,360
than about a trigger for the gang brought that up.

5423
08:53:16,780 --> 08:53:18,440
Jay, Jay, to broaden it up.

5424
08:53:19,460 --> 08:53:22,040
About a trigger for a continuous property owner,

5425
08:53:22,220 --> 08:53:24,780
if this were approved as a development,

5426
08:53:26,120 --> 08:53:28,940
that it would allow them to become an end.

5427
08:53:30,520 --> 08:53:32,580
I don't know about that Senate Bill.

5428
08:53:32,980 --> 08:53:34,260
I think he's just not willing to look.

5429
08:53:34,600 --> 08:53:42,000
No, he's talking about a project that I believe

5430
08:53:42,000 --> 08:53:46,000
qualifications under under that development. I'll be I will be off the

5431
08:53:46,000 --> 08:53:49,180
resolution. Here comes Bozi to tell us Mr. Rosie.

5432
08:53:51,490 --> 08:53:53,690
And I don't interpret

5433
08:53:53,690 --> 08:53:57,890
statute that's the County Attorney's Office, but the Senate Bill 686

5434
08:53:59,490 --> 08:54:04,850
provided for agricultural office means if you're in the agricultural zoning

5435
08:54:04,850 --> 08:54:12,850
district in your project or your property, a but a residential development, you're

5436
08:54:12,850 --> 08:54:18,570
entitled to that density of that residential development based upon the existence of.

5437
08:54:18,810 --> 08:54:24,710
The only PUD that a buttsis property is Hoshy and the Lakes.

5438
08:54:25,510 --> 08:54:29,510
That density is 0.78 units per acre, very low density.

5439
08:54:30,770 --> 08:54:36,750
So the 169 acres would translate to about 131 residential units.

5440
08:54:36,750 --> 08:54:45,750
So, this possibly could be eligible for the agricultural on-clay, based on Senate Bill

5441
08:54:45,750 --> 08:54:51,850
686, which would give them, and I'm not sure if 131 would be attracted to them in

5442
08:54:51,850 --> 08:54:52,530
that regard.

5443
08:54:53,330 --> 08:54:59,150
But that's still a layman's interpretation, not a lawyer's interpretation of the

5444
08:54:59,150 --> 08:54:59,730
Florida statute.

5445
08:55:00,230 --> 08:55:05,970
That same land is owned by the same developers, and they've already stripped the credits

5446
08:55:05,970 --> 08:55:12,090
off of that to facilitate the development in Haseyenda and the wrong one.

5447
08:55:12,510 --> 08:55:15,190
That land is part of the Haseyenda PUD.

5448
08:55:15,990 --> 08:55:17,650
They've already stripped the credits off of it.

5449
08:55:17,670 --> 08:55:22,310
But the Haseyenda PUD has a density of 0.78 units per acre.

5450
08:55:23,750 --> 08:55:30,170
The entire PUD has residential portions, commercial portions, and then preserved portions.

5451
08:55:30,690 --> 08:55:34,550
The preserved portions happen to be adjacent to it, but that's still the Haseyenda

5452
08:55:34,550 --> 08:55:37,090
PUD, which has a development standpoint,

5453
08:55:37,090 --> 08:55:39,930
has a density of 0.78 units per acre.

5454
08:55:42,990 --> 08:55:45,170
So would this improve a little trigger to their right?

5455
08:55:46,150 --> 08:55:49,010
To, no, no, if you, if you have pigs of course,

5456
08:55:49,310 --> 08:55:50,370
it's approved for a golf ball.

5457
08:55:50,370 --> 08:55:51,630
Yeah, it takes it away, it doesn't.

5458
08:55:51,690 --> 08:55:54,510
Right, it's right now as agricultural.

5459
08:55:55,110 --> 08:55:57,670
It would be, it would be eligible because it's

5460
08:55:57,670 --> 08:56:01,690
a joining, it's adjacent to the Hossi and the PUD

5461
08:56:01,690 --> 08:56:03,770
with the 0.78 units per acre.

5462
08:56:03,770 --> 08:56:15,330
So then disapproves not going to trigger their right to know he doesn't trigger that was my I think what he saying is if if you don't approve this

5463
08:56:15,330 --> 08:56:24,770
Maybe I have a hundred thirty one-homes on this piece of property. Oh, I think that's what he just said

5464
08:56:24,770 --> 08:56:26,830
Yeah, I think that's what he just

5465
08:56:28,970 --> 08:56:30,350
said

5466
08:56:30,350 --> 08:56:35,890
Yeah, I think we've heard through

5467
08:56:35,890 --> 08:56:39,550
I think that we explored every possible option.

5468
08:56:40,730 --> 08:56:43,530
It's the landowners right to say yes or no to conservation

5469
08:56:43,530 --> 08:56:43,910
collar.

5470
08:56:44,130 --> 08:56:46,950
It's not like that's some big magic solution.

5471
08:56:47,770 --> 08:56:52,590
It's one of many, but also this landowner has the right to bring us something.

5472
08:56:53,750 --> 08:56:56,690
And you actually took our homework assignment from our last meeting.

5473
08:56:57,510 --> 08:57:00,490
And what I heard from a lot of citizens in here was,

5474
08:57:00,490 --> 08:57:05,870
hate to traffic, hate to construction, hate to density, hurt to your

5475
08:57:05,870 --> 08:57:10,210
I think what we've done here is significantly minimize the structures,

5476
08:57:10,790 --> 08:57:13,750
significantly minimize the lights and the after-hours activities,

5477
08:57:14,530 --> 08:57:16,310
downsize the project significantly.

5478
08:57:16,830 --> 08:57:19,870
I guess my last question for Mr. Rosie is going forward here.

5479
08:57:20,210 --> 08:57:22,270
How much involvement do we have?

5480
08:57:22,290 --> 08:57:25,410
Like we have no design, we don't know what the cloud house is going to look like.

5481
08:57:25,470 --> 08:57:27,670
We don't know what the landscape is going to look like, you know,

5482
08:57:27,690 --> 08:57:33,990
and all of us that are at least leaning towards a proving this want to see the most robust,

5483
08:57:33,990 --> 08:57:41,930
natural wildlife using all the right things in place, you know, not just give them up, give them a thumbs up and say, hey, make a look pretty.

5484
08:57:42,670 --> 08:57:50,750
What is our involvement that has the county to make sure that it hits all those targets and all of those things to make it the most robust

5485
08:57:51,730 --> 08:57:54,750
environmentally friendly golf course that we want it to be?

5486
08:57:55,370 --> 08:58:02,150
Well, I mean, they do have to meet the gold standard, which they're green to within their PUD,

5487
08:58:02,150 --> 08:58:10,130
as well as the best-manager practices for their maintenance facility that's related to the DPMPs.

5488
08:58:10,810 --> 08:58:15,350
They have to go through, they'll have to go through a site development plan for the individual golf course.

5489
08:58:15,750 --> 08:58:21,510
And one thing I won't point out that other than on stable palm road, there are no buffers,

5490
08:58:21,790 --> 08:58:25,390
because it's next to preserve and the picking and strength say,

5491
08:58:25,390 --> 08:58:30,770
for you want no buffers along this golf course. You want the wildlife to be able to

5492
08:58:30,770 --> 08:58:33,310
versus discourse, of course, with relatively ease.

5493
08:58:33,930 --> 08:58:38,570
So this is an area where a buffer doesn't serve any benefit

5494
08:58:38,570 --> 08:58:42,030
if it's to preserve area in state forest.

5495
08:58:43,270 --> 08:58:44,870
You don't want buffers on there.

5496
08:58:45,250 --> 08:58:47,770
And the plug says it does not have buffer there.

5497
08:58:48,350 --> 08:58:51,830
So it's providing for that environmental aspect

5498
08:58:51,830 --> 08:58:55,050
of recognizing that this is a panther habitat

5499
08:58:55,050 --> 08:58:58,970
and will allow for the panthers to transverse it relatively easily.

5500
08:58:58,970 --> 08:59:05,310
I know some nice people hate when I say this, but because of all the things that we've made the

5501
08:59:05,310 --> 08:59:11,490
applicant agree to here to significantly downsize the project, I do hate it a lot less,

5502
08:59:11,770 --> 08:59:18,590
but I also think what's going to get lost in the whole story here is how I do believe this

5503
08:59:18,590 --> 08:59:23,330
will prevent something much more robust from being able to go there.

5504
08:59:23,510 --> 08:59:28,210
And so I think we've slammed the door on that and you can't just say, hey, I don't want

5505
08:59:28,210 --> 08:59:30,350
or I want everything to be a dog park.

5506
08:59:30,790 --> 08:59:35,170
And so I think that's the part that I think is the,

5507
08:59:35,670 --> 08:59:38,210
if there's a little bit of a silver lining,

5508
08:59:38,650 --> 08:59:41,830
something much more robust can go on this very easily,

5509
08:59:41,850 --> 08:59:43,910
unless we agree to something like this

5510
08:59:43,910 --> 08:59:47,430
and by downsizing it with the structures and the lighting

5511
08:59:47,430 --> 08:59:50,150
and all the things that we've agreed to here

5512
08:59:50,150 --> 08:59:53,950
if we approved it, I think we've squeezed it as much as we can

5513
08:59:53,950 --> 08:59:56,890
and then like you said, the process is going to guide

5514
08:59:56,890 --> 08:59:58,830
very aggressive.

5515
09:00:01,280 --> 09:00:12,000
A natural habitat type of end result. And in that area, that's exactly what we need. And we'll be working with the county staff to make sure that happens.

5516
09:00:12,440 --> 09:00:16,140
So, and like you said, that they meet all the parameters of the gold standard.

5517
09:00:16,140 --> 09:00:17,820
So if you're still on that,

5518
09:00:17,820 --> 09:00:18,460
two more or two more,

5519
09:00:18,460 --> 09:00:19,740
two more and let up.

5520
09:00:20,380 --> 09:00:21,260
Coming in.

5521
09:00:21,760 --> 09:00:25,000
I've been to make a motion for approval with those

5522
09:00:25,000 --> 09:00:27,440
stipulations that we've already

5523
09:00:27,440 --> 09:00:28,140
brought forward.

5524
09:00:30,040 --> 09:00:31,060
I just want to include a

5525
09:00:31,060 --> 09:00:32,160
deeterestriction on that.

5526
09:00:33,240 --> 09:00:34,940
We don't need to deeterestriction.

5527
09:00:35,100 --> 09:00:36,640
If he's not going to have the residential

5528
09:00:36,640 --> 09:00:37,360
do it.

5529
09:00:37,780 --> 09:00:39,020
We're going to do a deeterestriction

5530
09:00:39,020 --> 09:00:39,680
and not the right data.

5531
09:00:39,680 --> 09:00:41,600
We double down on the deeterestriction

5532
09:00:41,600 --> 09:00:42,280
and the 10 house.

5533
09:00:42,660 --> 09:00:43,320
I'll find with that.

5534
09:00:43,360 --> 09:00:45,420
To take the cottages out

5535
09:00:45,420 --> 09:00:47,720
add the deed restriction as says no residential.

5536
09:00:49,940 --> 09:00:50,060
Yes.

5537
09:00:50,200 --> 09:00:54,400
Notice to the notice to the honors, I mean, the members, the prescriptive burns.

5538
09:00:54,420 --> 09:00:55,260
Hey, you went into.

5539
09:00:55,380 --> 09:00:56,120
We need everything.

5540
09:00:56,880 --> 09:01:01,520
I think it eliminates some possible loopholes after we're all gone.

5541
09:01:01,800 --> 09:01:04,300
That the deed restriction on the other added protection.

5542
09:01:05,200 --> 09:01:07,840
I'll second that.

5543
09:01:07,840 --> 09:01:08,000
Yeah.

5544
09:01:08,000 --> 09:01:08,620
Commissioner Sons.

5545
09:01:09,060 --> 09:01:09,580
Yeah.

5546
09:01:09,700 --> 09:01:10,680
Just a quick comment.

5547
09:01:11,040 --> 09:01:11,920
Mr. Bozy.

5548
09:01:11,920 --> 09:01:15,300
This statement about the on-clave.

5549
09:01:16,480 --> 09:01:19,920
If I had heard that information early on,

5550
09:01:20,420 --> 09:01:22,660
that certainly would have affected my voting.

5551
09:01:22,880 --> 09:01:26,860
So I think it's important if we got a statute like that

5552
09:01:26,860 --> 09:01:29,400
that says if we don't do anything,

5553
09:01:30,020 --> 09:01:32,460
there can be 171 units built there.

5554
09:01:32,660 --> 09:01:35,240
I think that's important that we know that in advance.

5555
09:01:35,560 --> 09:01:38,720
I want to go ahead and vote against this just because I said it was going to.

5556
09:01:38,720 --> 09:01:51,300
I know some past, but I just, in the future, you know, I think if that is a case, then we need to know, and I'm not 100% sure that's necessarily correct, but keep us fully informed.

5557
09:01:52,060 --> 09:02:08,320
I understand it. I should have addressed it with the County Attorney's Office earlier to see if if they had the, if their perception or they're understanding the statute was identical to my understanding the statute to let you know that 130 units could have been developed on this 169 acres.

5558
09:02:08,320 --> 09:02:11,560
And Mr. Classico's interpretation correct?

5559
09:02:11,800 --> 09:02:12,100
Yes.

5560
09:02:12,500 --> 09:02:12,740
All right.

5561
09:02:12,880 --> 09:02:13,780
Oh, that should withdraw.

5562
09:02:14,580 --> 09:02:16,880
No, you can't.

5563
09:02:16,880 --> 09:02:21,820
But that was still on coming though, right?

5564
09:02:22,440 --> 09:02:23,600
Or has it been put in a little bit?

5565
09:02:23,980 --> 09:02:24,420
No, no, no, no.

5566
09:02:24,700 --> 09:02:25,640
It's a place.

5567
09:02:26,160 --> 09:02:27,180
Oh, this Laura statue.

5568
09:02:27,800 --> 09:02:27,920
All right.

5569
09:02:27,920 --> 09:02:28,180
All right.

5570
09:02:28,180 --> 09:02:29,300
I got a motion on the side.

5571
09:02:29,920 --> 09:02:30,980
On the motion.

5572
09:02:31,120 --> 09:02:33,340
I don't want to look like I'm stupid.

5573
09:02:33,820 --> 09:02:37,320
I'm going to go ahead and vote for this motion only because of what you've just said

5574
09:02:37,320 --> 09:02:41,820
because this is a better situation than if we, if we deny this,

5575
09:02:41,880 --> 09:02:43,480
I realize it's gonna pass with it without me,

5576
09:02:44,380 --> 09:02:46,140
but if I had known that at the beginning,

5577
09:02:46,320 --> 09:02:47,840
then I wouldn't be sitting here trying to figure out

5578
09:02:47,840 --> 09:02:48,840
what to do on this.

5579
09:02:48,940 --> 09:02:50,500
But also, on top of that, live local,

5580
09:02:51,160 --> 09:02:53,820
if we let the cottage, that also leaves it vulnerable

5581
09:02:53,820 --> 09:02:55,640
to even further expansion even more.

5582
09:02:55,800 --> 09:02:57,520
So I mean, we're shutting the door

5583
09:02:57,520 --> 09:03:01,720
and quite a few things that are big possibilities

5584
09:03:01,720 --> 09:03:03,280
if not certainties.

5585
09:03:03,880 --> 09:03:05,940
So I mean, I know that won't say well with a lot of citizens,

5586
09:03:05,940 --> 09:03:12,060
But sometimes, you know, we see it up here in a different way because we're sort of swimming in the stream a lot more regularly

5587
09:03:13,020 --> 09:03:14,540
So I'm good with that, so

5588
09:03:15,760 --> 09:03:17,760
All right, so with all the

5589
09:03:18,340 --> 09:03:20,980
subtractions and add to the

5590
09:03:20,980 --> 09:03:25,320
Demotion, it was made of a commission of a Daniel and I got a second-by-commissioner Hall

5591
09:03:25,320 --> 09:03:30,900
All-favorite singer five by saying aye. Hi, I oppose the same sound same side

5592
09:03:34,320 --> 09:03:35,440
Thank you.

5593
09:03:35,440 --> 09:03:37,240
Thank you guys.

5594
09:03:39,540 --> 09:03:41,780
We're going to talk about a break.

5595
09:03:44,300 --> 09:03:46,520
Terry definitely needs a quarter quarter break.

5596
09:03:47,140 --> 09:03:47,200
Yeah.

5597
09:03:47,560 --> 09:03:48,380
Ten minutes.

5598
09:03:48,540 --> 09:03:50,220
About five minutes.

5599
09:03:50,400 --> 09:03:50,980
About ten minutes.

5600
09:03:51,140 --> 09:03:51,620
You're called.

5601
09:03:52,440 --> 09:03:53,520
Ten minutes.

5602
09:03:54,000 --> 09:03:54,700
No, a little longer.

5603
09:03:54,960 --> 09:03:55,980
I need that food already here.

5604
09:03:56,880 --> 09:03:58,220
I need that.

5605
09:03:58,220 --> 09:03:58,980
I need that.

5606
09:03:58,980 --> 09:04:01,100
We'll start at the end.

5607
09:04:01,700 --> 09:04:02,460
We still got.

5608
09:04:10,140 --> 09:04:10,880
Thank you.

5609
09:04:11,340 --> 09:04:11,980
2020, gentlemen.

5610
09:25:08,990 --> 09:25:16,090
Members 11B and 11C together, I will read those two into the record. Jamie Cook has got them together in her presentation.

5611
09:25:16,510 --> 09:25:38,870
So item 11B is a recommendation to approve an agreement for sale and purchase under the conservation call your land acquisition program with Bernabe Acosta for a 1.14 acre parcel at Acosta of 34,200, James A and Alice M. Riley for a 1.14 acre parcel at Acosta of 32,490, and Katherine M. Nichols.

5612
09:25:38,990 --> 09:25:45,670
for five parcels totaling 9.1 acres at a cost of $290,000 for a total cost not to exceed

5613
09:25:45,670 --> 09:25:50,150
$282,970 inclusive of closing costs.

5614
09:25:51,070 --> 09:25:55,530
And item 11C is a recommendation to approve and agreement for sale and purchase under

5615
09:25:55,530 --> 09:26:02,010
the conservation call your land acquisition program with one HK investment AG Inc for a

5616
09:26:02,010 --> 09:26:11,310
$1.37 acre parcel at a cost of $560,000 to Dwight and Nielrick Klet for a .57 acre parcel

5617
09:26:11,310 --> 09:26:19,630
at a cost of $720,000 and $3 Kim and Kim M Coffner trust for a .34 acre parcel at a cost

5618
09:26:19,630 --> 09:26:27,910
of $475,000 for a total cost not to exceed $1,768,660 inclusive of closing costs Ms.

5619
09:26:27,910 --> 09:26:34,290
your division director for Development Review is here to present. Good evening commissioners,

5620
09:26:34,430 --> 09:26:39,270
Jamie Cook, for the record. As the county manager mentioned, there are six purchase agreements

5621
09:26:39,270 --> 09:26:45,610
before you today. Two of them are in red maple swamp. One of them consisting of five parcels

5622
09:26:45,610 --> 09:26:49,390
is out in the immaculate area and three purchase agreements on Marco Island.

5623
09:26:51,920 --> 09:26:53,120
The red maple swamp

5624
09:26:53,120 --> 09:27:00,200
was established in 2005 and to date 81 percent of the preserve has been acquired by conservation

5625
09:27:00,200 --> 09:27:06,820
collier. The red maple swamp is north of 20 ghosts and contributes to a large wildlife

5626
09:27:07,360 --> 09:27:12,380
private and wildlife corridor of public and private conservation easements including

5627
09:27:12,380 --> 09:27:18,520
the corkscrew swamp sanctuary, the bird recovery swamp, and private conservation lands

5628
09:27:18,520 --> 09:27:22,920
including Benita Bay, Esplanade, Riverstone,

5629
09:27:23,200 --> 09:27:24,800
the Corey, and Heritage Bay.

5630
09:27:27,020 --> 09:27:29,320
There has been a large restoration project

5631
09:27:29,320 --> 09:27:32,680
undergoing for the past little over a year

5632
09:27:32,680 --> 09:27:35,620
that is continuing in this summer

5633
09:27:35,620 --> 09:27:38,440
as a result of that restoration project,

5634
09:27:38,660 --> 09:27:41,140
a significant number of white till deer

5635
09:27:41,140 --> 09:27:44,200
and juvenile panthers were observed on the preserve itself.

5636
09:27:45,760 --> 09:27:52,680
So, the Acosta parcel is 1.14 acres of mixed wetland hardwoods, and it is 100% hydroxolios.

5637
09:27:54,820 --> 09:27:59,940
This parcel is on the north side of the preserve, and a butts conservation collier

5638
09:27:59,940 --> 09:28:04,300
parcels on three sides, as well as the bird recovery swamp to its north.

5639
09:28:07,800 --> 09:28:12,400
One of the things I was asked to provide to you all was when the owners had purchased

5640
09:28:12,400 --> 09:28:18,680
these parcels and if they were currently being listed for sale so this parcel was bought

5641
09:28:18,680 --> 09:28:25,580
by the current owner in May of 2022 and the purchase price mentioned is 100% of the

5642
09:28:25,580 --> 09:28:26,800
appraisal value.

5643
09:28:29,990 --> 09:28:35,810
The Riley parcel is a little bit further west and south of the cost of parcel

5644
09:28:35,810 --> 09:28:41,630
but it is a butts conservation call your parcels to its north and south as well.

5645
09:28:43,710 --> 09:28:50,330
Again, this parcel supports Florida Panthers and their juveniles, Black Bear and waiting birds.

5646
09:28:51,030 --> 09:29:02,630
This purchase price is 95% of the appraised value of the property and this owner has owned the parcel since 1977 when the Golden Gate of States was first being subdivided.

5647
09:29:04,710 --> 09:29:12,850
The nickels parcels are out in a mockery. They are five parcels containing wetland vegetation, but non-hydric soils.

5648
09:29:14,350 --> 09:29:21,790
This site supports waiting birds, black bears, bobcats, and there is Florida panther of telemetry data in this surrounding area.

5649
09:29:22,710 --> 09:29:28,250
These parcels are about 400 feet west of the Williams Farm Preserve.

5650
09:29:28,250 --> 09:29:40,090
And it does provide an eastern connection around the lake around Lake Trafford to get to Pepper Ranch and so the other private conservation lands and crew habitat.

5651
09:29:42,050 --> 09:29:51,650
These parcels were acquired in 1987 by the owner. They've gone through various trusts since then, but it's essentially been the same owner since 1987.

5652
09:29:52,830 --> 09:29:59,770
They were listed for sale in September of last year, they reduced the price to $75,000 per

5653
09:29:59,770 --> 09:29:59,970
lot.

5654
09:30:00,620 --> 09:30:14,760
In October of last year and $50,000 per lot in August of this year, the purchase price of 209,000 for the five parcels is 95% of the appraised value of the property.

5655
09:30:15,500 --> 09:30:17,180
Any questions so far?

5656
09:30:21,320 --> 09:30:31,680
Yeah, thank you. No, there's no sorry. I just was curious. Why we're voting on or talking about

5657
09:30:34,040 --> 09:30:41,140
B and C together. I just made the presentation together. Oh, okay. We're both part of the red maple swall.

5658
09:30:42,120 --> 09:30:42,640
Well, I

5659
09:30:42,640 --> 09:30:44,820
Can we vote on them individually?

5660
09:30:44,820 --> 09:30:52,800
Absolutely. I'll make a motion for approval on the purchases of on on 11B as present.

5661
09:30:54,820 --> 09:31:01,380
I'll second it. Motion a second for 11B all favors signify by saying aye.

5662
09:31:01,960 --> 09:31:06,220
Aye. Opposed same sound same sign. Passes.

5663
09:31:08,350 --> 09:31:15,110
Then to go to 11D, which is the three Marko Island parcels. The first parcel before you is the

5664
09:31:15,110 --> 09:31:23,630
K investment parcel. This parcel is on Barfield Drive just south of San Marco Road. It is

5665
09:31:23,630 --> 09:31:31,190
immediately south across Hawaii court from an existing conservation collier preserve known as

5666
09:31:31,190 --> 09:31:36,730
Barfield Burrows. The Barfield Burrows preserve does contain a bald eagle nest, as well as

5667
09:31:36,730 --> 09:31:40,050
about 130 active go for tortoise burrows.

5668
09:31:41,150 --> 09:31:46,130
This HK parcel is 0.37 acres of coastal scrub habitat.

5669
09:31:46,950 --> 09:31:50,350
Coastal scrub habitat is typically defined by upland soils.

5670
09:31:50,950 --> 09:31:53,570
They do, they are sandy and drain well.

5671
09:31:54,330 --> 09:32:00,470
It's more of a sand ridge and contains cell palmetos,

5672
09:32:00,750 --> 09:32:04,530
livox, Florida Rose Mary, and prickly pair cactus.

5673
09:32:04,530 --> 09:32:12,170
This property itself contains at least 13 go for tortoises of varying ages, which indicates

5674
09:32:12,170 --> 09:32:18,430
that there's a breeding population on this parcel, and it also contains habitat for burrowing

5675
09:32:18,430 --> 09:32:18,890
owls.

5676
09:32:21,330 --> 09:32:27,650
The current zoning of this parcel is C1 slash transitional, and Mark O'Ilan considers

5677
09:32:27,650 --> 09:32:34,250
that to be lower intensity commercial development as it transitions into the residential

5678
09:32:34,250 --> 09:32:39,270
neighborhood to the east of this parcel.

5679
09:32:41,810 --> 09:32:45,190
The property owner bought this property in May of 2015

5680
09:32:45,190 --> 09:32:49,710
and I was not able to find any record that it's actually ever been listed for sales since

5681
09:32:49,710 --> 09:32:59,490
then. This owner did apply to the program back in 2024. So it did have two appraisals and the

5682
09:32:59,490 --> 09:33:07,290
at that time was 6,6500, which was the author made. It was re-appraised due to the clerk

5683
09:33:07,990 --> 09:33:16,450
office of Inspector General audit in 2025 and the purchase price of $560,000 is the lower

5684
09:33:16,450 --> 09:33:20,430
of the two appraisals, and it is a hundred percent of that lower appraised value.

5685
09:33:26,360 --> 09:33:26,740
The next

5686
09:33:26,740 --> 09:33:34,600
Parcel is the clet parcel, which is 0.57 acres of coastal scrub and maritime hammock.

5687
09:33:34,800 --> 09:33:42,460
Maritime hammock habitat is influenced by sandy soils and salt spray from the sea.

5688
09:33:42,920 --> 09:33:47,220
It contains livox, cabbage palms, gumbo limbo, strangler figs.

5689
09:33:47,280 --> 09:33:52,180
As well as some of those scrub habitat scrub vegetation I mentioned earlier.

5690
09:33:52,820 --> 09:34:07,300
There are eight currently eight goher tortoises on site and this personal does border two streets as well as two single family homes, so it is slightly more isolated than the previous parcel I just showed you.

5691
09:34:08,040 --> 09:34:21,540
This property owner bought the property in January of 2020 and it's been listed for sale twice the first half of 2025 as well as earlier this year and it is currently for sale for

5692
09:34:21,540 --> 09:34:31,800
of $729,000, the purchase price of 720 is 100% of the appraisal value of the lower appraisals.

5693
09:34:40,880 --> 09:34:50,500
The last parcel is the Q&A trust parcel. This is 0.34 acres of, again, coastal scrub and maritime hammock habitat.

5694
09:34:50,500 --> 09:34:53,840
There are seven go for tortoises on this property,

5695
09:34:55,920 --> 09:34:57,480
and it is known for single family

5696
09:34:57,480 --> 09:35:02,280
residential as was the club parcel that I failed to mention on that one.

5697
09:35:02,540 --> 09:35:04,260
Again, this one is more isolated.

5698
09:35:04,840 --> 09:35:12,020
It does have development surrounding it on three sides, as well as two sides, I'm sorry,

5699
09:35:12,840 --> 09:35:15,060
as well as it abuts two streets.

5700
09:35:17,200 --> 09:35:24,140
The purchase price is $475,000, which is 99% of the lowest appraised value.

5701
09:35:24,740 --> 09:35:29,640
Again, the owner did buy this one for $549,000 in May of 2023.

5702
09:35:30,920 --> 09:35:34,740
It has also been for sale twice, but it is not currently listed.

5703
09:35:38,270 --> 09:35:45,130
The total cost to the program, including closing costs with the acquisition of all six

5704
09:35:45,690 --> 09:35:52,930
purchase agreements is $2,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000 for all fixed purchase agreements.

5705
09:35:53,550 --> 09:35:56,610
And with that, I'll take any questions or comments.

5706
09:35:59,140 --> 09:36:00,420
I can make sure as we did have a question.

5707
09:36:00,500 --> 09:36:03,020
We do have public comment on these items.

5708
09:36:04,260 --> 09:36:05,900
So how long do you want to go first?

5709
09:36:06,200 --> 09:36:07,100
How many speakers?

5710
09:36:07,580 --> 09:36:08,180
We will 11.

5711
09:36:09,500 --> 09:36:10,060
Okay, sir.

5712
09:36:10,360 --> 09:36:10,600
You know what?

5713
09:36:10,660 --> 09:36:11,800
Before we hear from the 11.

5714
09:36:12,060 --> 09:36:14,080
I'll make a few opening comments.

5715
09:36:14,080 --> 09:36:17,180
and maybe that'll help put some things in perspective.

5716
09:36:18,700 --> 09:36:21,060
Another purchase price of smaller lots on conservation

5717
09:36:21,700 --> 09:36:25,720
jump out at folks, but conservation collier to me

5718
09:36:25,720 --> 09:36:28,960
isn't a real estate program, it's a land preservation

5719
09:36:28,960 --> 09:36:32,040
program when parcels meet or exceed requirements.

5720
09:36:33,200 --> 09:36:36,360
Conservation program exists to me, in my opinion,

5721
09:36:36,580 --> 09:36:39,920
for a lot such as this, that are already home

5722
09:36:39,920 --> 09:36:41,720
to endangered species.

5723
09:36:41,720 --> 09:36:51,960
I mean, think of all the lots that we buy here that are puzzle pieces and yeah, they're cut throughs and maybe an eagle flew over at three years ago, and a panther may, you know, skirt the edges.

5724
09:36:53,000 --> 09:37:00,020
These are, I can tell you I know every single one of these lots, and your numbers might even be low, and so I'm sure.

5725
09:37:00,280 --> 09:37:09,880
I know Mr. Blonna is here who's a real environmental expert on Marco, so I would say, you know, it's not a matter of just sort of finding the good real estate deals.

5726
09:37:09,880 --> 09:37:15,040
If that was the case, then everything that we would buy would be out in a mockery or out in the middle of nowhere,

5727
09:37:15,100 --> 09:37:18,300
and it would be those puzzle pieces, which are also still very valuable.

5728
09:37:18,700 --> 09:37:29,980
But these lots are already home to, you know, exotic and sensitive wildlife as well as the vegetation.