It's 10 o'clock. I call the meeting to order. Welcome to the april, 2026
meeting of the akima county wetlands board. While
going through introductory remarks, please take the time to silence. Turn off
all cell devices. The board consists of five members.
approval of all permits requires a majority vote or three yay votes.
today we have all five member presence. We have a quorum
from my right to left. Mr. Gick vice chair, mr. Ward,
mr. Taylor and mr. Badger. I'm t lee bird quorum is
established with a, uh, minimum of three board members
present. Uh, if I may introduce our staff and
guest present, we have, uh, ms. Ginger harmon, who is administrative assistant,
mr. Paul watson, deputy director of code administration.
uh, ms. Ms. Claire gorman, general marine resources
commission, vmrc. And mr. Pbit can't be here. He has another
meeting. The wetlands board is aware of and, uh, complies
as closely as possible to the objectives of the virginia marine
resources commission policy of no net loss. All
persons speaking for this board will be sworn in.
alright. Um, so if we will please,
uh, let's, uh, talk about the agenda. I hope
everyone has had a copy of the agenda I've had in mind for some time.
uh, has everybody had a chance to look it over? Any questions, comments,
then I ask for a motion to accept the agenda. Second, mr. Chairman.
thank you. A second please. Alright, and vote.
aye. Aye. We have accepted the agenda
minutes, um, after some minor changes. Thank you,
sir. Um, we have, um, would appear to be
clear minutes from the march 24th meeting. Has everyone had time to
look over the minutes from the march meeting?
any questions, comments? As for a motion
to accept mr. Chairman, make a motion to accept the minutes. Thank
you, sir. Second, please. Aye. Thank you, sir.
vote please. Aye, minutes are in the book. I abstain. I wasn't here.
mm. Alright, we're gonna move on. And our
first topic is old business nu number four.
um, the first subject is 4.01,
which is, uh, mr. Michael pulaski that I think we all know. Mr. Watson,
may I swear you in, please? Do you affirm or swear you tell the truth, whole truth, nothing
but the truth in all matters before this board? I did. Thank you, sir. Would you, uh,
tell us probably what we already know, but anything that is current,
um, slides, put 'em out of order, but, uh,
I did visit the site last week and take two quick pictures. Um, it does appear
as if, uh, some grass is growing back, but the gravel has
not been removed and does not appear any
efforts have been made at restoration. Um, of course, pictures
can speak for themselves as to what has been done or hadn't been done.
uh, that's, uh, as you're looking out towards shiite bay, that's to the right
and that's to the left. I guess this grass area in the middle
you can, is visible in both pictures. Um, yes sir, but this is the
affected area.
um, I'll also report that mr. Pulaski, in addition to
the filings that I've, uh, presented to the
board that he's made about this particular violation, he also submitted
a, uh, everybody get this, everybody know? Yes.
um, a, uh, I, I, I guess he wants, I guess the best way
to put it, he wants the board to investigate on everything that's happened with the gabby and walls.
and I responded to him that I did not,
uh, believe there was any basis for a sworn complaint because number one, the gabby and walls
are now in, uh, outside the board's jurisdiction. Yes, sir. Sir.
and while they were originally permitted by the board, I saw no evidence that
they were constructed improperly. And this was dating back decades ago. Um,
and, and there's no evidence they were constructed improperly or there was any violation of that
permit and invited him to come to the board during open session
if he thought that I was incorrect or he had a basis for some type of violation
he wanted to present to the board. And he's not here
and he's not here. He, he did in at least one of the emails
that I got, um, he indicated that he would, uh, not be on the eastern
shore, not in captains cove until sometime mid-may. Um, that's
when he was complaining about the april 15 deadline. And, and he
did indicate to me he was not gonna be back. He could not do it by the
deadline because he physically would not be back on the shore. Um,
and so obviously he hasn't complied with what the board has ordered him
to do. Um, I, well, obviously I have
no idea what he's planning to do when he gets back, whether he's planning to comply or not.
well, uh, first of all, he's had more
time than anyone else I can remember on a project since I've
been doing this. And secondly, um, I hope he's, well,
I hope he's not in the hospital, but if he's just outta town then um,
he probably should have been here or had a representative here if he was that, uh,
intent on proving that we're wrong.
anyway, uh, what else do you have on this particular subject?
that's all. Alright, um, mr. Chair, just of curiosity,
did he ask for an extension of deadline from april 15th?
I mean, I, that's something that, you know, we can maybe discuss a little bit. Um,
I guess I could charitably say that he asked, he, he objected to the board,
uh, imposing the deadline by emailing me saying he didn't agree
with it. Um, I mean, he's definitely indicated that he,
uh, could not abide by it because he was not gonna be here and that
he never agreed to it in the first place. Um,
so that's, I mean, he, okay. I mean, he, he has been in communication
with me, but ob obviously, it also looks like he hasn't done anything for
the last however many months, almost a year. I so
agree with mr. The chair here regards to the situation, but obviously
we want something done. Would it be just to ask him what timeframe
is he looking at? Maybe? I mean, I, well,
I I guess what I'm getting, he hasn't said he's not going to do it, it's just a
timeframe or am I mistaken about that? Um, that is correct. He, he
is, uh, I'd say the sum total of the communications with him,
uh, are not exactly positive in, in think in thinking he's gonna
do it, but, but he has never actually said, I am not going to do it. Te tell us, please,
uh, what our options are. Let's assume for the moment right
now, let's just say for the moment, I don't think he's
gonna do anything. Uh, educate us, please.
um, so it's, uh, section 1 0 2 4 0 1.
uh, subsection c any person who, uh,
violates an order of the wetlands board, um, is
guilty of a class one misdemeanor every day. The
violation continues as a separate offense. Um,
and then there's a little bit of a strange section. Um, well,
it does say that without limiting the remedies which may be obtained under this chapter, any person who violates
any provision of this chapter, um, or fails to obey a wetlands
board order, uh, shall upon
finding of the circuit court be assessed a civil penalty not to exceed,
uh, $25,000 a day. And,
um,
and, and, and, and, and this is the strange part is that it also says that
with the consent of the person who violated the order, the
board can assess a penalty up to $10,000. Yes, sir. And I, the
only way that makes sense is if somebody does not, you know, is fearful
of going to circuit court, they could appear and consent to a yes, your honor,
lesser penalty. So it, it seems like the only two options
are either, well, there are several options, but it's, but the escalating
options are to refer it over, uh, to the commonwealth's
attorney to go to court or offer mr. Pulaski
a lesser fine that he would consent to. Obviously, we could also give him additional time
to see if he does anything when he gets back in mid bay. Mr. Chairman,
um, I, I called paul matter, he just left the place. 20 minutes
of this. This is exactly what I, what I, and I think hank had the same
thing about this. This fix is so easy. I know we told him to plant,
I mean, to, to fill and plant and the real world. This area is dynamic,
but it's also, if, if only if you got any pictures of his neighbor's grass is the,
the grass growing on its own. As you can see, that's a lot of the 10 by 10 area.
to me, it just takes the raking, not even the filling of it. And replanting to
me, it just, if you rake out the, the small rocks, it'll grow.
and that's, I mean, like I said, that's really what I thought when I called you. You know what I'm saying? You just left
there and you said, yeah, I got a lot of growth. He's doing nothing. Uh, I agree with
you, it comes, but what I'm saying is, but the, the who was the original contractor on this,
uh, jeff brown, he's the one who had all the problems with doing the work in captains,
go without permits. And he, I mean, like I said, in the real world,
the fix is so easy. And like I said, I know we told 'em to fill and
plant, but in the real world, all that, all that's fine, fine stones is
just gotta be rigged out and you're talking about a four hour job.
let's, let's, uh, do this the way we should do it, which is hold
back for comments. But, uh, we talked about it. And, uh,
uh, one last thing before we, uh,
open it, we continue to give time and
time and time. What's that do to the people
that try to do it correctly and come here and say, thank you in 30 days
I'll have x, y, and z done. If we continue to let this go on and on and
on, I just wonder if I think about it for a moment. Anything else, sir? Um, I would say
it's a little ironic that one of his main complaints is he's saying that he's been treated un
or unequally or not fairly because of all the other problems
we've had over the past year. But obviously the board knows, well, every other circumstance,
the offender has come in and made right, uh, pretty quickly
and also taken action almost immediately to start the process to make right.
and that's why this particular case is being treated
differently is because everybody else comes in and, and, and fixes
the problem on and, and starts immediately. Everybody is
innocent. Uh, just go over there and start asking them. Mm-hmm. Uh, jail.
everybody's innocent. . Um, thank you, sir. Anything else?
that's it. I'd like to close the floor. Anyone else wish to speak about
this particular, uh, violation or jpa?
um, I'm gonna close it, open it to the floor, close
it. Now I'm gonna open it up to board discussion and I'd like to hear from
everyone starting with you. You had a question that I kind shut you down. Well, I just
based, say it again. Well, I just based that the gentleman, mr. Polowski's out of town right now. So he's not
at his house there in captain coat. Correct? I that's what
he's told me. And, and when I went by there, I didn't see anybody, but that's
okay. So I, I have to say where I'm at, I know it might sound hard for us to do this,
but I'm willing to give him a couple more months when the growing season
and get this done. That's my first thought in regards to this. I don't feel
like I want to impose any fines at the moment, but
that's what, that's the way I'm leaning in that regards to give him. But I
think it's important for him to communicate to us what is
the timeframe that he wants. Because the way I remember, I think I was the one that
sort of went with the discussion of april 15th, and it was my understanding
that he would be back in the area april, may of this year. And I
think we decide we want it done sooner than later. And that's why we
went with april the way my memory tells me. Um, and, uh,
that's correct. He did not give us a date. Okay. And when he did not give us a date,
the board imposed it. Okay. And when I communicated to him, he imme, he immediately said
he didn't agree with it. And I communicated back, I mean, the board obviously knows you
don't agree with it. I mean, or they don't know you don't agree with it, but they imposed
it. If you don't agree with it, then you can show up at the next meeting,
you know, do a number of things. But, well
then I guess maybe I'm, I'm leaning into a more of a lenient way here is
just to ask him, when do you want it done? Is it gonna be may,
june, july? What's, you know, what, uh, what, what, what day,
what month would he like to have it done in this case? That's, that's how
I'm thinking about it. Um,
if, if the board cares about my preference, I'd prefer the board to give
him a date because I, my communications with
him have not been all that productive. We can let
him kick his can down the road till we drop dead of old age if we
don't do that. Yeah. Uh, but I, I want to go around the room, first of all,
um, anything else, uh, I'd like to hear from the other board about this. So what I,
mr. Ward, uh, what do you gotta say about this? Knowing of the facts and how long it's
been in his attitude? I,
he's not being
very, uh, helpful in
the situation. And
it appears that he don't think it's any of his fault. It's our fault.
well, if he would just abide by our decisions, everything would be good.
I, I wouldn't mind giving him to another
60 days, but inform him that at
the end of the 60 days, if it's not completed,
uh, there will be civil action statements.
okay. Uh, my view,
if we allow him to just continue to, uh, do nothing,
then, uh, why shouldn't everyone expect that we've given him time
and time and time again? Uh, I can't imagine
with looking and getting ready to have mr. Taylor
tell you all that needs to be done, uh, which is
a very small thing that we all see there. Uh,
what I suggest is that we lean on you,
mr. Watson, to try to find him one more time and just
flat out ask him, uh, how much longer he want
wants, will he be here next month? Uh, will he
have it repaired inside of next month or he just doesn't care? That's
all. Talk to us police. We, we directed him to fill in plant.
and, uh, like I said, you just happened to be there when I called him. This is what I was expected
to see. But you can see the reason that really growth area,
white big build. There's, there's, uh, stone sort, lake crushing
nun, you know, find mills there. You, if you don't, does anybody disagree?
maybe with that little pile of, uh, stone, uh, crushed
stone, wasn't there, that that would, that would've, that grass would've grown? Sure. It's grown around
it, right? It's grown around it. So to me, I would even back off on what we told
him to do, which was filling plant, which is, and we're, and the simplest thing
in the world would be to rake the millings
out of that area. And I really think it's gonna go back on its own. And you're talking about something that would take four hours.
and to me that I can't, and I can't, I, as, as a board member, and I'm the one
that talked, I don't think you, I think you're gonna along way that time. I'm the one that said plant and,
and, and, you know, fill in plant. But this is so much easier than filling and planting. It's
just raking the st raking the stuff out where you get down to, to the natural. And I believe
it will grow on its own. And that's, if you can't do that, then
first of all, we gotta find out, uh, is if he's suggesting
I'm doing nothing or love to, we need to find that out.
uh, this is a whole lot less work and a lot less in a three year
planting plan. I believe, like you said, I believe you just rake the stuff out. It would grow on its own. That's
the reason why I called you and you told me what I thought. And, and, and hank had the same thinking. It would grow
on its own if it didn't get choked out by the, the thick, the thick rock and
the, and the re of it. I really think you take that out. I believe it would grow back on its own
no matter what. Uh, gotta have a monitoring
plan in place, no matter what we choose to do about this.
let him, I think you mentioned it, a three year monitoring
plan that we can take a look at. And, uh, if it's not growing, then
he's gonna have to fix it no matter what. Okay. Mr. Badger got
your book open. Uh, yeah. I, I I just wanna make sure that
we followed the correct procedure in this, this violation.
uh, so paul, can you kind of go over what has happened from,
uh, when you found the violation and then, uh,
uh, I know that you gave him a, a cease or you had stopped the work order
on him and then, uh, then the sworn
complaint was filed, or sworn complaint was filed for the first meeting.
I presented that to the board mm-hmm . And then at the next meeting, I gave him notice that it
would, the sworn complaint would be heard. Okay. And the board
ordered a restoration plan. He provided one. There
were a few months where we didn't have meetings. Mm-hmm . So I think it was, uh, several months
later he provided the restoration plan. Um, at that point,
uh, he did not have a, an overhead for the restoration
plan. Mm-hmm . Uh, he provided that. And then the last issue
was the deadline. And he did not, had not provided a deadline.
when we got to the meeting, uh, the subsequent meeting, the board imposed the
april 15 deadline. I would say that would probably have been the november meeting, I think off
the top of my head, to the best of my recollection, uh, where
the board imposed the april 15 deadline. So it was a series of mm-hmm
. Requests that he, you know, fill in the gaps
of his plan. Mm-hmm . So the original, uh, sworn complaint
in the hearing, that subsequent hearing, uh, we gave him more than
30 days notice. Yes. Okay. Um, I, because that's part of the process. Yes.
okay. Yeah, I, the rules aren't exactly clear about
the sworn complaint. So the, my practice is
to present the sworn complaint at one meeting and then have it heard at the next meeting with 30
days notice. Okay. Um, I, I think that follows
what the rules require, or at least that's being safe, I think, as to what the rules require.
so we, we've gone through the process. He has submitted the information
for restoration. At this point, he just has not done the restoration,
is that correct? That is correct. I, it certainly,
if he's done it, it, it's not apparent from, from what I've seen or, or done anything.
it, it appears as if he's done nothing but mm-hmm . I, I can't say for certain, but
it doesn't appear as if he's done done it. So really we have two options. We can either give him
another continuance for whatever number of days or whatever months,
or we can just turn it over to, uh, the, uh, the court system.
correct. Yes. I, I, those are two options. Uh, well, and the third option
is to ask him if he wants to agree to a fine, but well, a fine doesn't
take care of the problem. Uh, if that's correct, if, if he agrees to
a fine, what happens? Uh, we, somebody spends the money to fix
it or he has to fix it anyway. Um,
I do not believe that
either going to court and being fined or or accepting a fine
from this board relieves him of his original obligation. I expect
it. So I guess what you're saying is basically right. Yeah. And it just, once again,
yes, uh, strikes me as, uh,
he thinks he's right. Um, you, you everyone read the
letter from his neighbor or neighbors that, uh, they think that he can walk
on water, he saved them. Uh,
but nevertheless, I think hank, you hit the nail on the head and we need to
decide right now, uh, what we're gonna do, um,
I guess I have a two-parter here. Do we can go with what mr.
badger just said, extend it continuance, which I sort of
where I'm leaning, but essentially, do we have to modify what we want
him to do? Because what, right now, it sounds like mr. Taylor would just want him to rake
it first and see what happens. And then if need
be down the road, a monitoring plan, replant if it's necessary. Does
that sums it up and, and in the real world, like you say,
I mean, to me, that's what I was thinking. I think it was thinking that it's gonna grow back and why it's not growing back
is, like I say, the, the, the little stone and stuff. It won't, it won't, can't
get through it. Um, yeah, that's the original was planted and
I think that would be, um, really a tougher grill than raking it.
and like you say, it's, it's a lot more simple for 'em. It costs no money, costs no
money for fuel. It costs no money for the plants.
and, and it's going now, now when y'all, y'all were there, uh, out of that
10, 10 area, how much is left? That's un and I know we also, we can see the reason why
it's not grown, but what is, what is, what is that area left that's not, uh,
vegetated in that 10 10 area? You understand what I'm saying?
some of that 10, 10 area has already naturally grown in. Well, if that's, that's, you say, I would say
the area in, uh,
maybe 28 square feet out of the a hundred
maybe. Do you underst what I'm saying? Maybe a little less. So I really feel that's what I'm saying. I really feel,
and like we had the case of last week, it grows back.
I could say it's already, it's right to have that and we wanna have that plant plan, but if
storms and stuff take, takes it, as long as it grows back and we see it, it's
growing back and, and we need to be monitoring ourselves, do the thing, seeing it going
back. And then for, like I said, it's not, if it does go back and then storm takes and stuff,
we already had that conversation last week and then nothing nobody can do about that.
uh, for what god takes. But again, I could say that's what, that's what my thinking was when I called
you. And to me, I could say, and it would take
very little time for the, and like I said, if, if you, if you can't do that,
it's not gonna work out. So I think we're at the point we either
need to stick with what we've already given him extensions for
and determine how much more time he needs. We'll,
uh, say you get half that, you get all that or change the
whole game and do what you're talking about. Call him, give him x
number of days to get that done, or we're going to file. Is that where we stand right now?
yeah. I, I don't stand there. Uh, no sir. We are gonna vote on if there's a,
if we change it, there'll be a vote. Yeah. I don't want, I, I I know. Okay.
um, and I would just add logistically, uh, we don't have anything to
be heard in may. So the next time we're going to the, the board will meet will be june.
oh, there's nothing next month. I, alright. I, I,
I would think I'm correct on this. Um, I think
we're at the point in time that we need to,
if anyone has a, a change
in what should be done other than how we stand with this gentleman right now,
I think it's time for a motion
to change it. Whether we vote, whether it passes or not.
but I think that is the way to go. And then we will go from there, uh,
and instruct mr. Watson how to get that done. Carry on. So, okay.
I'm sorry mr. Chair. Carry on. Okay. So unfortunately
I was not here at the july meeting back in 2025. Right?
so the game plan was for him to clean up the, rake it up, then
plant it, fill, fill, implant, fill and plant fill implant and, and,
and monitor. And monitor. Okay. Got that. Got that. Yeah. All
and the fill was where it's needed, sir. The fill was where, where it was needed.
not, not the hole. Okay, very good. You, you with us on that? Yeah, but
I feel like we're bending over too far. Great. It's coming to
you. Hold on. Uh, so
I think we could sit here and beat this to death, but we're not going to, if
anyone would like to make a motion to change
what we have already told him to do and he is,
uh, delinquent, then I ask for a motion now.
well, in the real world, like you're saying, as long as he know it's fill or need,
you understand what I'm saying? No, that has to be, well, like I said, that's what we're talking about. The
fill that doesn't isn't the whole place they call it right now. If you fill it, you're gonna be filling over marsh grass.
you understand what I'm saying? Right now that in that 10% area, a lot of that has already been, already
been reged on its own. So like you say, it is gotta be raked anyway or
nothing's gonna grow there anyhow. You can put all the fill onto it and planted all you want that it's gonna be choked off
by the rock down below. So either kind of way it's gotta be rigged either
way. It does it. And just like you say, places that don't have
the grass, because I don't see the sense in filling the grass that's already there.
that to me don't make any sense. So if we give him a, I'm just
put this out deadline, say june, are we expecting
the area to be raked and filled with plantings where needed?
is that correct? If we give 'em that deadline that's not already going
back on it on. Well, I don't know if it's gonna grow back. No, I'm talking there's, there's
area that 10 by 10 areas already been growing back on. It's on. Alright, so
I'm I'm I'm sorry, go ahead. So if we choose, since we've got no meeting
next month, uh, we stick with what we have, but
an extension through june, is that what we're talking about?
I I I think that's good. Is that what we're talking about? Everybody? Do y'all, do y'all see
the sense and filling the grass that's already been, that's already come back on
the phone. That's, I don't think we're talking about filling the grass. We we're, I don't think that's
so area, the area that needs to be would need to be filled. Now you said it's, uh, how many square
foot? Um, I mean
it's a little hard to tell. I think you can see from these pictures that has the, it was
a hundred was right and, and now it's what, uh,
say 85. It's 80 to 90, 80 call, let's call it 85.
all right. So, uh, if we're gonna give them extension,
we need a motion, uh, that the
85 square feet needs to be filled,
planted, monitored. It is
a little difficult because what's growing is interspersed
rocks and why not? Uh, a hundred feet less anything
that has growth. Alright. Uh,
talk to me everybody. And also we should address the gavin basket. Those gavin basket has
nothing to do to what we we're using as a clearing house. It has nothing to do with
us. We know that he knows it. You know it, everybody knows it. He's just
using it as an excuse. It doesn't matter. It doesn't even need to be in the motion.
so I want a motion. Please ask for a motion,
sir. Mr. I'll make the motion. Mr. I'll make the motion that
we extend the deadline for getting the planted where needed
for the area for the michael pala complaint. And
we give him a deadline of, I'd say june 30th, 2026.
june meeting. June meeting. Well, I'd ask for it to be, oh, approximately
a week before the meeting. So, okay. Excuse me. Let me, let me, let me re I make the
motion that we have a deadline of june 15th, 2026
for the, for the, uh, michael pulaski
complaint and have it so that the stone is removed
and plannings are done when ne where necessary. And with
a monitoring plan over three years, do
we need a tax map, jpa or anything in that motion? Or is that predetermined?
I, I I think, I think it's, I think we all understand. Okay.
alright. So you got that. Alright. Everybody understand the motion?
second please. I'll second. Second. Mr. Ward,
uh, let's vote. Aye aye. Aye.
okay, we're in favor of that. Uh, ginger, you got all that? You got any
questions? No. Alright. That's the way it's gonna be
just after the motion here, just for your informational purposes. He obviously sent
in a lot of paperwork and just to let you know, in,
uh, exhibit b, number seven, he talked about all the things
he would like the wetlands board to do. That's right. So if you, uh, I, I know
it's a lot of paperwork, but he sort of had it in the exhibit b. So if you wanna take
a look at that. But again, what mr. Watson talked about, it was more of an enforcement
issue, which may or may not be within our jurisdiction.
probably in that case, everybody's got this in it. Mm-hmm .
any questions? Uh, I think that, uh, in the enforcement,
uh, we've already done our job and he
can bring it to the table if he chooses. I do
have one more last question. Is that, I mean, we talked about, there's two things. We talked about the old
seawall that goes back to 1970 that was there.
does anyone ever have a picture of that? Is there, I I, I,
I, I have a house there. Was it 1977? Yeah. And clammed out in
that area. I think the reason why I took 'em down 'cause the, the wire got where
you, it got close to the chy, but the rocks actually, the rocks ain't going nowhere.
why they took it down. I mean, it was, it was, it was your, the organization
, you know what I mean? That, that wanted it out there. Don't ask me why. So that was back in, because it was protection
and it was protection. So did that get taken out back in the seventies? No, it was
there in the seventies. Okay. That wasn't that long ago. I mean, it was, I believe if you look
at the county mapping site, you can go back to 2002
and you can see like the outline in the water. It's not
been that of where it was at that time. Okay. Very good. Thank you.
okay, uh, let's move on, shall we?
we're gonna continue with the old business. This is subject 4.02
jpa is 2 0 2 4 dash 2360.
it is the planting, uh, plan
for cedar island. Um,
everybody knows, uh, this is now the third month
for the, uh, when they originally were here. Uh, we
asked for a five year monitoring plan and um,
I think we might have some more information on that. So sir, would you
enlighten us? So the only outstanding issue was the board's
inquiry as to whether the county had any liability under this planting plan. Right.
uh, the county attorney has reviewed the memorandum of understanding
between vims and the county and she has clearly stated to me that all
liabilities on vims, none on the county. Uh, so there was no concern
from the county that the board was placing any liability on the county.
and I believe that answers the board's question. At least
I hope it does. 'cause that's what I'm trying to be. Uh, if, if that's the way it is, then that certainly
answers her question. Does, I guess my question,
why did them come to the county to put their name on it anyway?
um, I, I
probably needed a local sponsor. I, I think the grant money need needed a local sponsor.
I think maybe to assist in the grant funding. Um, I'm, I'm not exactly sure,
but I, I have been in the, at the periphery of those discussions,
so I, I can't say for certain, but I do know that it was some technicality
that assisted in the, in the funding or, or in
some aspect of the project because we own nothing there most I'm the owner that comes before
you list. Yeah. Just sound at the legal part of it.
so is there any action, uh, any discussion
regarding that? We only had one question. I guess the rest is,
uh, already predetermined and, and
I'll just say as a follow up, we, we have the, uh, permit ready for
your signature after the meeting today. Now that that's been resolved. Yes, sir. And, and, and
I have communicated with stantec about that, about the timing and they were fine with
it being signed. You know, they weren't waiting to start construction of
this whole thing. I'll just put it that way. . Alright, anyone?
uh, let's, let's do this. We're gonna close it. Uh, anyone
else wishing to speak about this particular jpa
close the floor public comment? Close the floor, uh,
open to board discussion. Mr. Watson, any questions
regarding it? I think we have done about everything we're gonna do.
uh, and I'm looking at you. You have any questions? You weren't
here last month. Do you know how we stand? Mm-hmm
. No. Okay. I'm fine. So there is no motion, no need for a vote.
we're just good to go. And I'll sign it after the meeting. Is that the way it goes? Yes.
okay, we're moving ahead. Thank you, sir.
next, still on old business 4.03
amended. Jpa 2 0 2 5 dash 1263
bic. Um, mr. Watson. Um,
so there were a couple of issues that were, uh,
raised at the last hearing. The board want to continue the matter so it could
have a little more information to resolve those issues. The first is whether they're
wetlands underneath this dock or platform. I made a,
well, several site visits and I've got a picture each time.
uh, this was on april the 13th. Um, obviously I'm laying
on my stomach taking a picture underneath the dock. This was, uh, at
11:28 am on april 13th, which was about 27
minutes before low tide. Um,
I actually checked the moon phase two. This was a little bit lower than normal tide, three
inches lower than normal tide. Uh, it was a pretty good breeze that
day, maybe 15, 20 mile an hour breeze. Um,
but as you can see on that day, there were a lot of wetlands under the dock.
um, the next visit was on april the 16th.
um, this was at 1:37 pm which
was about 23 minutes before low tide that day.
that low tide was one inch lower than normal. Um, on the moon phase,
which is probably about equal out with me being there 23
minutes or so before low tide, that actual low tide, uh,
much, uh, maybe 10 mile an hour breeze that day. Um,
and then finally, uh, monday evening, which was the 21st of april at
5 47. Um,
five mile an hour breeze at most, this was at 5 47 for a 6 0 8
low tide. So about 20 minutes before low tide. And this moon phase
had it almost at a zero tide of, I think
it was negative point, uh, five or 0.05
feet tied. So maybe like a half inch lower than normal, almost a normal tide,
mean low tide. And this was, again, 20 minutes before low tide, almost
no wind whatsoever. Um, uh, alright.
and my estimate of using the measurements we took
and acro mapt is that is about, well I would say a
conservative estimate is it's 240 square feet of wetlands underneath
that, uh, new portion of the dock
platform. Alright, anything else, sir?
so that's the first issue. Um, the second issue
was the, uh, uh, whether,
I guess it was two parts. Number one, whether, uh, multi-user docs
require a local wetlands board permit and
bmrc does require, I guess a, they're,
well, they're not exempt from review of a multi-user here. Our,
uh, our ordinance uses the word non-commercial,
uh, non-commercial peers that's correct. Are exempt. So,
um, I've communicated with bmrc about that. And that is,
uh, how our wetlands board or any wetlands board wants
to interpret that language, um, is up to the wetlands board.
so the wetlands board could determine that a multi-user peer requires a permit
to be, to have the same, uh, standard that vmrc does.
or it could, uh,
I guess go with the non-commercial commercial definition, um, and,
and just require commercial peers to, uh,
or non-commercial peers to be exempt. Um, that's
one part of the next issue of this issue. Another part of this issue is whether
this structure is actually
a peer, uh, meaning this is the new section
approximately here, and it is,
I guess otherwise it's just a platform over the water, meaning how big
of a pier can you have before you call it something else.
um, so the board has two issues there as to
how it wants to characterize what we have here.
and then the final issue that was raised was the, uh,
what had happened back in, I believe january of 2025.
at that point, the bulkhead was constructed out to where this
platform was. Um, bick was ordered to pull it back, which
it did, and also was assessed a penalty for the wetlands
that were destroyed. And, uh, there was discussion
about whether vic had, I guess, already paid for these
wetlands. And that is not what
happened. It's a penalty, it was not mitigation. Those are two different
things. I have looked at the minutes and the minutes do
say that, but I do not believe, uh, that
it was possible for it to be mitigation because it
was a, a penalty as opposed to mitigation. Meaning once he,
once you pay it, you don't, paul read that and, and I've read it
and I've read the minutes too. It don't mean nothing to you. What's that? That paper means nothing to you.
I would say that if it was mitigation, then mr.
britton should have been allowed to keep a bulkhead there because that's
what it means. It means, no, I'm the one that done the, I'm the one that done the,
um, I I've got the minutes right here and I good. You read, read, do the, do the do
the thing. And I know I did it. And the reason why he had to pay for it, he, he restored
it. Do you agree that he restored it? Do you agree or not? It's restored wetlands. Am
I right or wrong? Am I right or wrong? I I I don't know. I mean, you
just said it was wetlands under there. We all just looked at it. It's it's restored wetlands. It's restored wetlands.
I mean, I'm not, I wasn't involved in that, so I'm not sure it's restored wetlands.
it's restored wetlands. Okay. I'm the one that made a motion,
sister and I, and, and, no, no, no, no. Hold up. And I agree that that was what
was motion. The reason I made didn't pay for it because there was no way that the, uh,
the, we, the, uh, vegetative wetlands is gonna live there. If you, if you do need, if
you do a pullback for the years, it's amazing how much those, those, uh, vegetated wetlands
pull back vegetation wasn't gonna live there. So I didn't even pay for it. It's in black
and white. It's in the minutes. It's on tape. You can't believe me.
and it's done. I'm sorry. This is a
one-on-one. There's, there's the thing. And like I said, it's, it's on
tape. That's why I made him pay for it. That's the reason I made him
pay for it, because the vegetation wasn't gonna let there, I made him restore it. He
did it. He could and we made him pay for it because vegetation was not
gonna go back there. Yeah, it's, it, it, it's there. And blacking
white, it's on the, it's on the whole thing. I made the motion. I I I'm not disagreeing with any of that.
no, then I'm confused. Well, just because you were, you pay
for the, uh, loss of vegetated wetlands doesn't mean you give up the jurisdiction.
no. Of the vegetative wetlands are the, the wetlands that's there now.
I agree. I made you pay for it because it had paid for, it was because the vegetation wasn't gonna
grow that mm-hmm . But he's, that's not what they're being told to me right now. Well, just to be clear, he
says a fine, it's not a fine, it was in lieu of fee. It's sitting right there in black and white. If that means nothing,
then I'm just crazy. Well, okay, so my point was only that
at least I thought there was a suggestion that
now bick was entitled to do this
'cause they had paid that. Mm-hmm. And, and, and that,
that was my only point, is that I thought that was the remaining issue
was whether or not they were entitled to
cover up or affect these wetlands because of what had happened
back in january. And my suggestion is, is the, those are two very
different things. I'm not saying it's entitled. Okay. I'm saying it's not, you're saying
it's a fine, it's not a fine, it's in lieu of fee. It's written there in black and white.
I made him pay for it because that vegetation was not gonna grow and he had to
restore it. That's the double thing. That was the double thing. He's restored it. You all admitted it. It's
wetland's there. Alright. It's restored wetland's. What difference does it make if you call it
a fine or it's, we're not even addressing that issue. I guess the question is, who was the
check written out to? I mean, is this, isn't there map county
weapon? I mean to the, for the, uh, in low fee fund, that's
where a check is made out to. Okay, I got a check here. Okay.
alright. So it's, if it's made out to, it's not a fine, it's made out for the, for, for the
recoverable wetlands loss, loss of vegetative wetlands. Mm-hmm . Okay. So let's,
let's assume you are correct and it is paid,
it is finished. Uh, now
what's next with this amended? Jpa, do you have
any other future comment? A violation theoretically
has been cured and there is a
amended jpa, so so in january,
um, of course the bulkhead was taken back and that violation
was completely taken care of at that time. Yes, sir. So now we
have a new violation, which was,
uh, that this was constructed without a permit. Um, this is an after the fact.
jpa. Yep. And that it is over wetlands.
um, I would suggest that we have seen it's over wetlands and now the
board, um, has a couple decisions to make. Number one, whether
to determine whether this is exempt as multi-user or it needs
a hearing as a multi-user. Uh, number two, whether this is actually a peer
or something else. And then number three,
if the board determines that this is not a permitted use and
is over wetlands, that it, uh, that, uh,
at least, at least from what I understood at the last hearing was whether or
not that had already been paid or not. And I'm suggesting that for
this new violation that those wetlands have, that
the board would need new compensation for those wetlands for this new violation.
um, so those, so those are the issues that I see before the board.
can I, can I do something mr. Chairman? Uh, no. Hold on. . Um,
is there anything else regarding, uh, the new compensation? Do you want
to tell us of what? Square footage, anything like that? Um,
240 square feet. That's right. Okay. So
if you'll allow, uh, mr. Britton, your time's coming.
go ahead eugene wayne, see if you agree or disagree with that. In virginia, a private
dock, non-commercial, peter overstate owned submerged lands. Do you, do you, are you telling me
that that, that we just seen it low tide it. Who owes that property?
I know y'all have jurisdiction, I promise you I know that. But who owns, who owns its name on state owned property? But that's
his, that lo that that's his, uh, marshal, I mean his, uh,
not, uh, g dan's soba. Yeah, so well, his name well call sub
on low tide. It's, he physically owns, what is your point? Uh, who
owns it? I have the tax map here that shows the parcel. He owns it, right? You
agree? Yes. Just like, just about everybody. But even like I say, yeah, virginia private
dock, this is, even overstate owns . He, he would own it just like
anybody based on what saying. Right. But what I'm saying, there's a difference between private docket, public dock, private
dock, noncommercial, people over state owned, which this indicates it's his own, uh, basically
what we're talking about, uh, owned submerged lands for, uh, non-commercial
use, but not open to the general public, like you said, town of shank tank just
bought a park there. Two and a quarter acres. I guarantee he'll have a sign
there not open to the public because we'd be out there using it. Uh,
a big part. I'm sure that's, like I said, if it was open to the public, everybody on that,
that's using that two and a quarter, uh, acre park we just bought, we'd be using his dock
. Know what I'm saying? It'll be a private, it'll be a private sign. There are, I'm sure that
process. So in north hampton county, I know they treat a multi-user dock as
a, uh, they, it is not exempt.
um, my understanding is that many other counties in virginia treat multi
users is not exempt, but some do. And, and that is at the board's
discretion as to how it wants to handle that. As of this minute, that has been how
we've been doing it though, right? Yes. Uh, yeah. That and,
and, uh, that's my understanding. Yes. And, and I had a conversation with vmrc
about this several months ago, and then since the last meeting, I wanted to make sure
that I have reported that correctly. Um, but it was my understanding that's how the board's
treated in the past. I just wanted to bring that issue up. Um, because
it doesn't get before the board very often. Hank uh, I want you
to hold up. I know you've got something to do. Alright. Thank you sir. Um,
uh, representing, uh, bic is mr. Raymond
britton jr. Uh, sit where you are. Do you affirm or swear you
tell the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth in all matters before this board,
I do stay where you are. Please speak up or pull that down or something. Uh,
we were permitted for 300 and, uh, 50 foot,
six foot wide field. Almost the s bottom right.
we only built 265 foot of it, right? So
we left the other 90 feet out there. I didn't touch
it. We came back when we made us move to bulkhead, which was done
by mistake, I was out of town. My boys did it. Not knowing that it
was wrong. We, as soon as beth called my attention to her, I immediately
said, I'll do what you say. And we moved it. That put
a pier outside of the bulkhead. I said, well, I can extend it. Pier
back in 1521 feet just changed my starting point.
I'm still not exceeding the 350 feet that I was allowed.
I'm only up to 290 feet down.
so we enclosed that little, had those pieces there about six foot by 15, there
would've been a gap in there. So we decked over.
it would've been permitted if it had been all the way across the marsh to main street.
we do 'em all the time across the marsh. It's a not, it's, it's a permitted no permit
required thing to begin with. And while we're here,
I don't know if these people can make decisions without trying to look for a violation
every time they come out. It would be a whole lot of stuff in the world for, but that
doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. Alright. As soon as they
walk out, it'd be, you gotta take it out. It's not what
happened, what can we do? It's take it out. That was the first thing that
the bmrc girl said, you're gonna take this out. I said, hold on a
minute. I, I had a permit for 350 foot on my building.
I'm, I'm at 300 square foot less impacts right now.
which the project, like the sex that I was allowed to do,
there's no trade off. Then I made an amended permit when
we had a borrow for the project, go buy a house to whole property. He went on for
three months. He couldn't get his financing with the amount of money.
that changed everything. That changed everything. Then I was told I had to
reapply, amended permit to change it to a commercial beer.
fine. I did that. Then I sent over another
one showed where we came in, tied in here like this for
permit to do that. And all I wrote is a violation
not looking at before we're going to give a permit order or not. Would it have been, it
would've been permitted if, if it hadn't all, all the uses hadn't
changed. That's in the minutes. Same thing you said before. Yeah. It's,
it's just, okay. It's frustrating that you don't have anybody that can come out in
the field and say, well, you, you, you gave up
all this out here. We'll trade off here. Send us a new drawing. Show where you're going to tie
in at now. It would've been permitted anyway.
is is the sad part about it. Alright,
sir, anything else? Not right now. Uh, is there, go ahead,
sir. Um, mr. Watson, I would say that, I mean this, this is a very simple process.
before you build, you need a permit. We need the plans and, and,
and mr. Brit and several times is built without,
you know, bill, not according to the permits or built even, you
know, this modification didn't even come to us and submit anything. So, I mean, I,
I understand. I'm not exactly sure what we're supposed to do when he never notifies us before
he does something like he's required to do. Uh, you just made a statement.
you may have to back up what he just made a statement. He may have to back
us up. I been building it without permits.
well, you built this without, no, I have a permit, but 350 foot
all change would be where it started. Okay. And we're not going to beat that
little aspect to death. Uh, you can take that up behind closed doors
if you choose uhhuh. Just said's the first time construction. All, all
right, sir. Is there, uh, anyone else, ms. Gorman, that
wishes to speak about this particular amended? Jpa? If you
have specific questions, I can answer them. Anyone have any questions for
ms. Gorman? Yes. Yes I do. Yes. Would you approach, please
do you firm or swear you tell the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth in all matters
before this board? Yes, sir. Thank you ms. Claire gorman. Carry on, sir.
so what my big concern here is setting a precedent where someone
mitigates wetlands and they build over it.
and I guess from my view is from your experience, have you ever seen a
situation like this where there's a mitigation, there's wetlands
and then someone just goes ahead and builds a pier or a ramp
or whatever over top of it? Do you, you get my gist of my question?
I'm not sure I I follow your, so you're asking
if I've seen cases where a board has required mitigation for
shading of wetlands. Yes. Let's go with that. Yes. In terms of,
um, you have the wetlands there, you pay mitigation and you weren't
expecting someone to build something over top of those wetlands paying.
so I, I I just, I do wanna make the
point that I agree that it's kind of a mute point now as to
whether or not this is called mitigation or a fine. I am on the same
page. Paul and I are on the same page. As far as like the semantics of mitigation versus,
versus a fine, this was mitigation was not paid for these wetlands.
it was a fine because you cannot pay an in lieu fee or mitigation for something
that is a violation. But it doesn't change the nature of this.
okay. Of this, of this structure. Does that, you just said it does
not, it, I, in my opinion it doesn't change the, this
this scenario. I have a question. What you, hold on. Alright, just so one more last,
so initially the mitigation, well we call it mitigation, correct? This, whatever, it's
how many square feet was that initially? Oh, I don't recall. It's
one 62nd. Can I have that paperwork back too? This, I've got the minutes. Thank you.
okay. I've got the minutes from that meeting. Okay. So was it a hundred, you said a hundred sixty one oh eight.
1 0 8. And now what? I heard that it's 240 square 40.
correct. Okay. Alright. I, that's what he said. Well, okay. I,
oh right. 'cause the bulk had only didn't go out quite as, quite
as far, I guess, but all right. But I don't think that changes anything here. Well, I'm just looking,
looking at the mm-hmm . Okay. Thank you very much. Board. Any questions from ms. Goman?
no. Okay. Uh, mr. Taylor. Okay, back, back to, back to your
question. Uh, if, if we gave junior a fine, where would that money go?
I believe this went to the county. Now if we gave him a fine
to the county either way. Okay. So this, this
in lieu of fee did not go to the restoration and to the, to
the, uh, wetlands boards account for restoring wetlands. I don't know where
your, your funds go, whether it's an in lief fee or a violation. Uh, why would the
in lie fee go? It would go to different places. They're not, you're
not gonna take fine money and put it into restoration of wetlands. That's, that's the county's
okay. Paul logistics, it's not question you, where did that money go?
um, from all indications. It went to the, I mean,
I, I would say that it, from what I know now, it
went to the in lie fund and that was probably a mistake. And
I will say, well, no, I will say most municipalities, whether it's a fine
or an in lieu fee, it usually goes into the same location. But I don't know specifically for
akima county how that works. No. And
how, how do we find out for an absolute fact where it went?
um, I could probably go find out in
just a few minutes. Uh, go ahead. Should be, it should be a receipt in our inter go system.
um, I say we have a, we have a, would you do that? Show us or
let us know as soon as possible. Um, if you wanna take about a
five minute, maybe we take a five minute recess. Junior, you are okay
for a few minutes. Uh, we're taking a five minute recess.
okay. Uh, don't, don't leave hank 'cause you have a question or two. Oh. Oh,
I'm sorry. I thought we were doing, doing the five minute recess. You can you go back. Hit
the head baby. Okay. George ward. I know you gotta go. Well,
not really, but I can. This one's easy. I probably will just in
case you please. Just don't, don't, don't go across
the desk. You're not in
go bathroom.
don't worry about it.
wow. So, uh,
has the fire department spent all their money? The all its millions they
made on penalty pending. I hope.
last week, last month I was asking myself. I worked, I worked with kids
with his grandson. Started working with, that's a good boy. Great, great
young man. Work with my kids. I tell myself I'm 65-year-old, I need to just turn
this over to west after leaving here. I'm like, nah, I still like kids. Way better.
I do adults . I of us do. I'm serious.
like, you know, when I, when I was, uh, first time I ran for council,
I was in my coaching little league and uh, I had a game that night. So asked, it
was a debate. I asked her that little first. So one of my questions, well, if you have a little big
baseball game where you have a a town council game, which one you gonna go to? I said, this is easy.
I said, I'm not gonna lie to you at the job. I'm going to the ballgame. I'm much, I'm much gonna spend time with the kids
than, than than a bunch of politicians. This was easy. My, my grandchildren
across the bay are into everything from dance to soccer's to running.
uh, they've got a, now they've got a thing now in
their middle school called girls on the run and it's
about 15 of 'em. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a big program they run.
that's a big program. She does five, six miles. She's 11 years old. Yeah. That's a
big, that's a big, actually that's not that big. They did the, uh, thing
on the beach, uh, on the boardwalk. Uh, 25,000 people that
did it. And her daddy is a a, a new zealand
up, upcoming general that gave it up to come here.
and she, he paces her and, uh, she, she can go.
I'd love to, I'd rather watch him play sports
than eat when I'm hungry. Mm-hmm . Keep a minute. Keep
a minute. Alright. We're waiting on mr. Watson, I believe. Yeah.
alright. One thing I
can tell you is money and mitigation the same,
same fund. , they
don't go through general funds. It shouldn't. They don't. There's a certain amount. We got a certain amount. We got like 160
some thousand dollars in our fund before they, uh, they need to acquire a
trust fund. Took it from us sitting right here. We got that in our account. We got $160,000
for, for restoring wet masks. Yep. Right now
you take it. I'm working with a lady right now. What? What? We're working with a lady
on receipt. Create a wetlands back. Yeah. Uh, stack. Any
rest non title or title? Title, title? It's uh, russell's
house up on main street. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That whole front yard. This
lady's bought a lot. Well that's the perfect place to do it. That's a perfect place to do because you always do. Yeah.
canal. You always do it adjacent to it just fairly high
land. You do the land and strip it down to that. It has the best
chance of winning, of survival and it's protected. Mm-hmm . It
won't, seed's not gonna take it once you do it. And, uh, but in contact
cc gentleman, bm rc and
she's thinking about, uh, at $26 a square foot, do the whole
cut the house down and do it. 'cause that's a lot of money. Take the half. She gonna take that whole front yard.
but you understand what I'm saying? Do that, do that math. $26 times is 43,200
some square foot just do four, 3000. It'd above your mind. Well, well,
I thought it was like they, they came up a million dollars per acre. I thought
it was like 22 when you do this. I don't have no problem with charging people. I'm serious. I
don't have a problem. But problem is, like you said, if you do it, you better have a reason to do it. You
know what I mean? You better have a real reason. It's a great, uh,
great thing. And particularly there, uh,
people can pay into it. It's a win-win. It appears to me. You
really do understand what I'm saying about this. Yeah.
yes I do. But there's a way to go about it. Mm-hmm
. There's a way we're gonna go about it. Okay. Gonna just come across the desk.
we're not selling tomatoes. ,
man, old man.
the first complaint, I thought it was a joke. Damn joke.
it ain't a joke. Uh, the first complaint. Wow.
yeah,
we made some wetlands on when jerry tracy was here when
you built sunset bay, built a bit wetlands in jerry tracy
went up, wil and I made blowing some lands out. Yeah, I remember that. It made wetlands
out. This did well, did that canal about just enough warm.
it did real well. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that.
I think dave's don't know what subdivisions are, ain't he? Yeah. Dave dave's good. Dave's
good boy too. I give him a 13 acres. Yeah. They, these,
these good, uh, very, very excellent, uh, carpenter, very excellent carpenter
who gave it. Yeah. Not because he's my son. There is no carpenter touch.
yeah, I've, I've heard son. I call don't care who you are.
I don't believe that. .
I'll figure, I'll tell you. That's why I don't text. I don't email. I tell
you something. I be face that . I want you
to know. I meant, and no paper trail, huh? . Yeah, that's right.
junior. You gonna put a fence down that line on that line buying,
but between, uh, town and mm-hmm . That I'm not, we
are probably, that's what I was asking you was trying to save some money. . Yeah. Y'all ended
up buying, you ended up buying it, didn't you? That's what I thought.
I got a lady now that she bought russell over's house. She bought the
other house, bunk hill that, uh, um, dick
cotton built mm-hmm . One built and she bought the house across the
coast and she just bought 13 acres of land from
to wetlands. $200,000 on they all road.
oh. They, that they're across from the, uh, uh, what do you call that, harbor,
down by the harbor. Mm-hmm . Anyway, she wants to buy my house now, all
the land. So she put her ponies out in the front yard and I'll roll around and
people can come tell them she wants pay said million dollars. Well, once she does
that, I can, I can play legal biggle on this one. I can play legal biggle
on this. I've had to stay, uh, uh, land law my whole life. You know that
you know the reason why too, not 'cause I wanted to, but this is easy. If
she buys the whole thing, you drop two lot lines. This is legal. Yeah. . She,
she, you know, she's right now she's, she don't want, she don't want, she don't want three lot. She
wants the whole thing for put apo in. Yeah. She wants, she wants a house to live in and she wants
to, so she, she's not, she's not gonna put houses on the other two lot. She got special horses she's
got from rose. She's only got six of 'em. So they can roll the ones and
people can come up and pat them and hand feed them. Oh. You will have people to feed 'em. Where's she
hail from? She said, look, she's from california or originally, but she's
from up around washington. Now my understanding was her ex-husband
or dead, dead husband or where it was, had a lot
of apple stock and they sold that. That'll
do it. Yeah. I should. And she gotta do something with the money and she just been buying everything which they
dollar. Yeah. Got spend
this property I've gotten, in fact, I was over the phone with her this morning. She's already bought the
marsh beside you. She's already bought the marsh beside you. She has already bought the marsh
beside you. Oh. Oh. I bought hill that one. Oh. She ain't bourbage still
on that one. Still on that one. Well get bourbage and sell to marsh then that she'll be
sure to buy that yours then if she's interested. She, if she, if she, if she
wants to feed people, feed horses, she's in a perfect place there. We're
gonna do apartments. She can feed 'em all day long. But she, she, that's what she, that's
her goal is to have a place to feed her horses and keep 'em
nice to have money. I guess she's, uh, she's waiting on that her account to tell her she
can buy if she should buy any more property. But she says she
may go against him and do it anyway. Yeah.
I think property gonna better for feet of horses.
well she could've helped the county. I I mean the, uh, bought that property for him.
right. The one that y'all bought and
giving it to the kind to the tire horse apart. There you go.
charge, here we go. Those little machines that you get some boss feed
. I had some of them at the restaurant feeds your ducks with you did. Yeah. You put your
money into the bubble cup machine. That's right. Put the quarter. You got a handful of corn. Yeah. Right
beside mcdonald's is where you mm-hmm . And they used to feed the duck up the
end with we had the restaurant. That's right. Surprised how much quarters that
thing filling up every day if you're in the right spot. I told my girlfriend
what these all the town, you know, our kids are gonna go, oh,
daddy, mama and the duck were so tam that it would
come around your feet. They eat right between your legs and your feet, but all the shoes
mm-hmm . Because they're used to getting fed there. Yeah.
it's like for deer in pennsylvania. My house up forever. My son david feeds, so every time he goes up corn
that we feed when we go, he's gotta beating outta his hand.
I believe it. There was a deer coming right up, right up his hand. And their biggest cows up there are
deer in pennsylvania are, I had two, two eights and
a 10 of course where I live. Everybody's got those, uh, screw on, uh, sponsors
on the, on the rifles. Yeah. They, they didn't make it. He didn't even make it hunting season .
I told, I told, I told the billy, I said, don't be shooting, but gary, you better pencil some in. Jeez.
but I was surprised he read down of his hand like that, come up to the deck on the house
and he was standing there and feeding by his hand. We got mallards. We feed
the ducks every day off the dock. We got mallards. The children are feeding. Yeah.
oh. Uh, they, the, the black ducks and the uh, buffalo
heads won't do it, but the mallards will come right up there and they feed 'em right their hand. They're not scared.
I got a pond behind my house and the metals come in there and do he ever
bit of it or cleaned up upon every winter? Is that right? They stayed there every
bid of you feel like paying them by throwing some corn or something they want because I mean they did do extremely
good job. I tell my daughter, don't you even think about it shooting them ducks? Don't even think about
it. Do we have a freezer up back in the seven sixties? I guess they were
the early the seventies bad freeze up. 68 was one. We were
feeding the ducks corn. Old man and tom reed lived by a
depot. Old, old man. Mm-hmm . Come. He said, son, please don't do that.
I said, he don't feed them ducks. You going kill them. I said, why am I
going kill 'em? I thought you need to eat everything screwed up. He said, no,
he can't get no fresh water to drink. It's all through he gonna kill him.
I never thought of that. . Okay. Uh,
I like to call the meeting back to order, uh, mr. Watson, you
have some information for us. I do. Um, so we recorded it as
a miscellaneous fee in, in our computer system,
the zoning, but that doesn't really mean anything. Um, and
the treasurer checked the in lieu bank statements. Uh, it looks like
we got the check february the fourth. And uh, they checked the
bank statements for the in lieu fund for the several months, uh,
february, march, and so forth. And there was no deposit in the, in lieu fund bank account,
uh, at all. It just shows interest for all of those months, um,
to actually determine. And so it
likely, the treasurer thinks likely went into the county's general fund
and that is a much more difficult process to track down a deposit, you know,
15, 16 months ago in the general fund in five or 10 minutes. But
she did pull, she, she has easy access to the bank statements for the in lieu fund. It did not
show any deposit and the in lieu fund for the several months after we received this
check and that we took the check over to them
on february 4th. Alright.
so we think that it's in the general fund for the county. That's
what we think. Yes. Then it needs to be transferred to, to our
bank. What's, uh, what's involved. That sounds like it's,
uh, a lot of work. Um, not
work. I'd have to do no, somebody. Um, but I I do not,
I can can we get it done? I would think it shouldn't be too hard.
um, but I I do not, I am not on the money side of all this. I
think it, I think we need to ask that question. I I don't think that where that's where it
needs to be. Um, so
what's the, what steps, what hopes we jump through to try to get that done?
um, well, I'd go over and talk to the, to the treasurer james, and, and
just explain the situation. I I, you know, obviously in the scope of county finances,
this doesn't seem like a hugely significant, uh,
transfer. And I would think with a little bit of digging they could find
it's $1,944. It's kind of an odd number. I mean, they'd be able to find that jane
ton. Yes, sir. And, um, I mean, they know within a week or
so when it would've been deposited. So it seems like that should not be too hard to
find a bank statement in that amount. Um, I'd like, uh, to ask
you to talk to james, and this is a slack time for them
in the scheme of things before june. And I think he's willing
to do within reason, whatever it takes to make something like this. Right.
I I they're very helpful if deposit on two six.
okay, that's helpful too. But you don't, you just know when the check was
box check, would you please, uh, make one more call on
mr. Littleton and ask him if he would help us find that.
get outta there. Yes. So not now balance on that too, because it's like a hundred some
thousand dollars. Hold on just a minute. So thank you for that information. Uh,
I think we can resolve it now. Um,
how do we stand, uh, mr. Badger? Yeah. Um, just a couple
thoughts. Um,
should be no fees involved in this as far
as mitigation fees for, it's, it's an opens to pile structure.
we haven't, they haven't lost the wetlands underneath of it. So that's a not it's, it's
doesn't need, it doesn't need to be addressed. Yes, sir. So the question we really
have here is, first of all, is it we, considering this a
permitted structure that we need to permit because it's joint use?
uh, in the past I think we have, uh, joint use. Uh, we
consider something similar to commercial, uh, but not pri totally private.
so I think we do to be consistent with what we've done in the past,
probably permit something there. Then the big question is, is whether
or not the width is, uh, reasonable or not. Uh,
so that's kind of where I am. If you look at just the width, did
you say width? The width, yes. Versus height. Uh, the height is height.
it doesn't matter because it's non vegetated underneath. Right. Okay. So it doesn't matter. Uh,
so if you just look at activities in wetlands authorized, uh,
by law and, uh, marine resources, wetlands, uh,
section of the code, uh, non-commercial. That's the big difference
here. Catwalks, piers, boathouses boat shelters, fences, duck lines,
wildlife management shelters, foot bridges, and observation
decks. Okay. Are, are accepted under a non-commercial.
randy, we're gonna have to give a permit here. So we've gotta decide whether or not this,
the, the additional width of six feet versus, um,
basically, I guess it's 10 feet, uh, with the, the width across
the wetlands, whether or not that's appropriate or not. And
is that, uh, the, the tens versus six, is that something
that's, uh, appropriated or is that something that is on a case by case?
I think it, I think we're looking at case by case here. Uh, we're not dealing with vegetated wetlands underneath
this, uh, um, observation. Yeah. Is that what you just said?
yeah. There's an observation. Decks. Decks. I like that observation deck. I like that
too. 400 square foot. Yes. How do you feel about an observation deck, sir?
fine with me. The thing this was,
this was all built before we were asked to make the change. I know all
that to commercial, it was being done as residential at the time.
what other options do we have besides observation deck,
uh, shelters and other similar structures? Were finding that the struc
that such structures, uh, are so constructed are pilings as
the reasonable unobstructed flow of tide and preserve the natural
contour of the wetlands, which this is open pile, it's non vegetated. Perfect.
so the area underneath perfect. Mr. Watson,
uh, after the fact to turn this into an observation
deck from whatever it was, it was a private peer and then it was
a, uh, um, uh, you had
three people involved. Um, what do, what do we
do after the fact? What do you need from that gentleman to make this an observation
deck? I mean, what's the, what do we need? Excuse me.
oh, well I think we do have an amended, amended jpa. So I think
that is before the board. So the amended, just to be clear. So is
there, is there a, uh, vote to take this amended
jpa, uh, and have it include an observation deck? Does it
need to be worded in the motion? Um,
I think that's best. Yes. Um, yeah. And oh,
sorry. No, no, no, no. Uh, so
do you, uh, agree that it can become
an observation deck if the owner says it is and we put it in
a motion and it's, uh, part of the amended jpa
that he's already paid for? I, I would just say that
section 1 0 2 dash 2 8 3 1 does mention, well,
it's straight out of the virginia code, mr. Badger quoted. But it does say, would you observation
deck as a permitted? Yes, sir. Uh, I guess, uh, alright.
but, but of course you have to go back to the commercial non-commercial. Exactly. And I don't want,
so that's another issue whether the, but
yes, it's discretionary. Um, if the board calls it commercial, of course
it can permit it. Um, I'm not speaking for the owner here,
but, uh, I think, uh, whatever we want it to be, to keep
it like it is, uh, uh, uh,
observation, uh, public or private or
whatever, I think, uh, if we do that, everything is resolved. Is that what
I'm hearing and junior is, is that okay
ma'am, you, is there anything that you can help us, uh, on
this particular aspect?
do you understand what we are trying to do here? And do you
agree or disagree from where you sit? So, um,
I am not totally clear on how you all are proceeding. All I think that
I should say though is that if you are going to issue
a permit, a wetlands permit for this after the fact application,
it needs to be a complete application. That's,
that's, um, in keeping with, in keeping with, um,
your procedural, you know, so, so we have, we advertised this,
we cannot, we, we, we did before the last meeting.
okay. So it's been advertised. So it's been advertised. Uh, we have a, an amended,
uh, been paid for. But you're saying if we're going to do this, it needs
to start a again, in your opinion. No, I am just, I, my only,
um, comment is that it needs to be a complete application if a permit is going to be
issued for it. I, I think we have a complete application.
uh, paul, would you enlighten me on that? Do you agree that we have a
complete application in some fashion? Um,
there's been a lot going on in this case, so well lot going
on. I just object with bunch of cases speaking. I think at least we need to modify the drawings
to indicate an observation that's a piece
of cake. You already have everything. You might need to change two words or something.
we, we, we do have an updated drawing. We got
a drawing. I'm, it's right here if anybody wants it, but I don't know
if there's, uh, some verbiage or if something big deal. Uh,
um, there are, lemme bring it up on the screen and we can all look
at it. Uh, here it is there. It's, yeah. So
a couple things. Uh, we would need mean low and mean high
noted on here. And also I guess where the x's are.
um, where are the x's? Uh, oh yeah, I got it.
go. Oh shoot. Oh, there we go. Um, mean low and high is not on there somewhere
I do not believe so. Um, and also I don't see it some indication
that whatever that, that this additional area is an observation deck. I mean this
is the pier going straight back and
uh, or some com you know, some indication that that's what was
applied for here. Alright. Uh, if we choose to do this and
the owner is willing to, uh, get with you and
change some, some worded or mean high mean low,
uh, take five minutes in your office. Uh, is everybody, not
us? Everybody clear with that? And, uh, junior,
uh, mr. Watson? Yes. Uh, if
we do that and he's willing to, uh, redo the drawing,
if that's what it takes, uh, I'm be glad. Review the drawing. Yes
sir. Yes sir. And you'll be glad to talk to him and say, what do you want on there that's
not on there. Is that a fair assumption? Mm-hmm . Alright. And I would just add to
that, that I would, uh, also review the application and make sure yes, sir. Anything else that
needs to be put on there of course is, is you'll filled out. No. When, just make
sure. Uh, and, and paul, will we go through the application?
yes sir. Send me an email and tell me what he wants on it. Yes, sir. So I don't miss anything. I do it all at
one time. Fair deal. That's fair. Uh, how long to get that done? I'll send the email out
today. No problem. Okay. Uh, any
other, oh, hold on. Uh, closed floor. Anybody want
to talk about it? Closed floor, public comment, close the floor
now. Discussion from the board. Okay, I just wanna make sure we we're clear on covering this
one point when you went and measured that when you are on your back,
you came over 240 square feet? Yes. Okay.
and the original mitigation for was for 108 square feet. We're
not, nothing's been filled. Nothing's been filled. Okay. So we don't need to worry about the differential. It's open
pile structure over, we over, uh, uh, non vegetated
wetlands. Okay? So we're all fine. Nothing's been filled. It's just open pile. Just open
pile. And it's also property that it's, it is, it is private bottom, not state
bottom. I don't mean nothing either, but again, it's, it's nothing been filled. It all goes
away because of that. I just wanna make check. I understand judge. Just wanted check. There's the only
thing that could ever even possibly be charged for would be shading. That's the only thing that even be possibly charged
for. And because sha vegetation, that's not an issue here.
I don't think so. You agree? I, I agree. Question. Uh, you agree
hank? You agree? Alright, here's what we're gonna do.
we're going to, uh, make a motion regarding this, um,
amended jpa 2 0 2 5 1 2 6 3.
yes. And it's gonna include re uh,
uh, mr. Watson's, uh, redrawing
with, uh, mr. Britton's, uh,
high, low, et cetera. What else needs to be put on there? He's willing to do
it and it's become an observation deck.
you with me? Yes. Alright. Uh, are we ready for a motion
regarding that? May I ask for a motion, please? I'll
make a motion on the admitted jpa that it'd be, um,
uh, new drawings I stand. It'd be a, um,
uh, observation deck and it's under, that area is under 400
square foot. Um, and the new drawings will be in place
with the, um, mr. Paul and mr. Mr. Gina
britton. And the drawings will show, uh, state, uh, instead of be
an observation that this area in question, I make a motion after the,
the, uh, new drawings and everything, state this observation deck that we approve.
we have a motion call for a second. I've got a
question. There is no change in anything other than
the terminology of the, that's absolutely correct. Alright,
as for a second, please. I'll second, second vote please.
aye. Aye. Unanimous. It passes two year permit. Uh,
ginger, excuse me. Did you get all that? Yes, I did. Yes, sir.
um, so I guess the last thing to dispose of is, of course this section
was bill not according to any plans we received, and
that was the violation was this was built without the required
permitting. Um, and I would just ask the board to dispose of that
sworn complaint. Yes, sir. Uh, that is very, very good. Should have that
have been in the motion? I don't think so. I think it just, we dispose of
it separate. I think it's end of story, story separately. Uh, that the, the
violation is disposed of, uh, not include in
the motion. Uh, it is just gone.
we agree with that? Mm-hmm . Everybody. Okay.
we don't, we don't need to vote on that. We're just, it's vacated. We can do it.
let's, uh, here, here's the motion. I make a motion. We've disposed
of the sworn, um, violation. Alright,
second vote. Aye. Aye. Gone away.
alright, uh, let's move along please. Thank you all. That was
a hairy one. Um, all we've got now is, uh,
number five. Is there, is there another
violation that I missed? There's not, but I, but I would ask the board just for a little
of guidance. Uh, this one was easy to bring before
the board 'cause obviously there was a violation the board needed to dispose of. Yes
sir. And so the issue of the multi-user, whether that's commercial
or non-commercial. So I would just ask the board if it wanted to provide any
guidance on a going forward basis. If I have another application,
a jpa with a multi multi-user peer, whether the
board considers that exempt or requiring a hearing. I
only speak for myself. I think it should be on a case by case, uh,
round the rum. Do you understand the question? Uh, should is,
is it set in stone as of this moment? Um,
if it is this, it's commercial, if it's that it's private, uh,
or is on a case by case. Well, to be consistent with vmrc,
they consider joint use peers something they have to permit.
so I would suggest that we continue on the same line that they do just to be,
'cause we're gonna be dealing with the same peers. Yes, sir. Uh,
makes sense to, uh, gene wayne. But to be honest with you, it's a lot
easier if we don't , but well, uh, I think we can,
I think if we, uh, align ourselves, uh, and
ms. Gorman is here to, uh, give us some guidance,
I think that we can do it on a case by case until we have two
or three under our belts. And then if we see that it is black and white, then we're going
to put it in a book. Okay. Okay. Fair deal. Yes. Alright. What else you got?
um, I, there are no jpa
for the next meeting. I think I distributed one at the last meeting that I thought was gonna be heard
highly. Right. But they have, uh, reconfigured their, uh,
design such that it's no longer in the wetlands. So, uh, that means
I don't, I've got it here. When's, when's june meeting? Uh,
I got it if you need it.
if I do sign it wrong, please. It's, it's back to the fourth thursday. May,
may was gonna be the third. Uh, somebody look up, uh, I got it
in my calendar if you need it. Here we go. Um, so the fourth
thursday in june is the 25th. 25th. Yes. Alright.
uh, moving on to number five. Uh, there is no meeting
or next month. So our next scheduled meeting is june 25th,
uh, thursday, 10 o'clock right here in chambers.
um, anybody have anything from,
I I do have one question for yes sir. Um,
it's my understanding, um, that vmrc
has taken a harder line when it comes to, uh,
both rip wrap and bulkheading. Now is
is I, am I not thinking correctly on that? Um, could
you expand a little bit? Um,
I think they're pushing more and more for living shorelines than
they have in the past. And you've almost got to now justify, uh, stone
rip wrap more than we've had in the past is that we have only, um,
I, we approach it on a case by case basis. I mean, I would say,
um, so that hadn't changed to being, being consistent with those state mandate for
living shorelines. We do ask for justifications for bulkheads and
revetments. Okay. If a living shoreline is feasible.
um, but if it's not, but we do like to have that justification on the record.
they need to put the justification in there. Okay. Yeah. But from where we sit, don't
we still have our tree that, uh, goes from, uh, living
all the way to, uh, bulkhead? Yeah. Mm-hmm . We do. Okay.
alright. Uh, anything else? That's it. We're adjourned.
alright. Okay. Take the motion.