[9:12] All to order the Albemarle County Board of Supervisors
[9:15] for our September 2nd, 2020 6:01 p.m.
[9:19] meeting here in Lane Auditory him with us today.
[9:22] We have Supervisor Mike Pruitt of the Scottsville district
[9:25] supervisor and Malik of the Whitehall District supervisor
[9:29] Fred Missal of the Samuel Miller,
[9:30] District Supervisor bill of Histo, courtesy of the Ribbon
[9:34] a district supervisor, Sally Duncan of the Jack Jewett
[9:36] district, and myself supervisor Nate
[9:39] Galloway of the Road District.
[9:41] We do have our deputy county executive, Mr. Trevor Henry,
[9:46] filling in for Mr. Richardson this afternoon.
[9:48] Deputy County executive and Wall will be subbing in this evening
[9:52] later on.
[9:53] She looks thrilled and i watched I saw that look at You.
[10:00] We also have with us our board attorney and Eric our board
[10:05] clerk, Ms..
[10:05] Claudette borgerson, and our Senior Deputy clerk, Mr. Travis
[10:08] Morris, with us I want to thank our Elmore County police
[10:12] Department officers who were with us this afternoon.
[10:14] Police officer First Class Luke Keyser,
[10:17] and Officer Enzo Irizarry.
[10:19] So thank you both, gentlemen, for being with us this afternoon
[10:22] And now, if you will please rise as your able for the Pledge
[10:26] of Allegiance I pledge allegiance
[10:30] to the flag of the United states of America
[10:33] and to a republic for which it stands One nation under god,
[10:38] indivisible, with liberty and justice for all
[10:48] And we're going to now join in a moment of silence.
[10:51] And I would just take the chair's prerogative
[10:53] to ask people to keep in mind the children at the Waynesboro
[10:56] elementary School, there was an incident there.
[10:58] This just this morning very traumatic.
[11:01] And just have that whole community in your thoughts
[11:03] during this moment of silence.
[11:04] Thank you All right.
[11:25] Thank you everyone.
[11:26] On board.
[11:27] We have an agenda.
[11:29] I do not know of any changes or edits to the agenda.
[11:32] Are there any at this time?
[11:35] All right.
[11:35] Seeing none.
[11:36] Is there a motion to adopt the final agenda So moved.
[11:39] Second, all right.
[11:40] The motion has been made and accepted.
[11:41] Without objection, if the clerk will please call the roll.
[11:44] Mississippi State currently I miss Mallett.
[11:46] Yes, Mr. Missal.
[11:48] All right, Mr. Pruitt I miss Duncan.
[11:50] Yes Mr. Galloway.
[11:52] Yes Thank you.
[11:53] Board.
[11:54] All right.
[11:54] We'll move to item number five, Brief announcements
[11:57] by board members.
[11:58] Supervisor Malik you're up first today.
[12:00] Thank you very much.
[12:01] And I am scrambling to try to find the dates for the Ravenna
[12:07] solid waste authority is having their fall
[12:09] household hazardous waste and all the various components,
[12:12] mattresses tires, furniture and appliances
[12:14] and if I can find it before we're done,
[12:16] I will redo that because it is coming up in September.
[12:19] The electronic waste sign up is already full,
[12:22] but there is a waiting list.
[12:23] So one can get on that if you are interested in still giving
[12:28] it a try And I will say that last week i
[12:33] was able to attend a cyber conference over at PCC
[12:37] and so heartened to hear that the county is already doing
[12:42] through the skills of our i.t.
[12:44] Department, the top ten things that we should all
[12:47] be doing to protect ourselves against attack
[12:49] And it really takes a village every employee, everybody being
[12:54] careful with all those different two factor authentication, etc.
[12:58] Cetera to keep the great effort going
[13:01] in protecting against self-inflicted wounds
[13:04] is the number one thing we should
[13:05] be doing And news about a new partnership
[13:09] and work with PCC UVA to build what's called a cyber range.
[13:14] There's one in another of community college
[13:18] that is having great success.
[13:20] And so we're looking forward to hearing more about that.
[13:21] And i hope that they will come to the board
[13:23] and make a presentation and I will come back later
[13:26] if I can find my dates.
[13:28] Thank you very much Thank you.
[13:29] Supervisor Duncan I have nothing Supervisor Pruitt
[13:34] two very quick things to keep on your radar.
[13:37] First, really sneaking up on us is the 2026 election.
[13:42] Early voting starts on the 18th of September and will be
[13:46] at the county offices on Fifth Street.
[13:48] And will run through the 31st of October.
[13:52] The spookiest day of all, which will be
[13:55] the last day of early voting.
[13:56] And then, of course, the election.
[13:58] The following Tuesday.
[13:59] Additional the annual loop de Ville celebrating and raising
[14:03] funds for our fabulous trail network that runs around
[14:06] the city of Charlottesville through both the city
[14:08] and the county will be on the 27th of September.
[14:13] This is one of the best opportunities
[14:15] to visit and learn about the trail to celebrate it.
[14:18] There are support stations all along it.
[14:20] So if you've ever thought, boy howdy,
[14:22] I'd love to hike or run or bike over 20 miles in a day,
[14:26] but I don't know if I have the capacity
[14:28] or this is easily the best time to find that capacity
[14:30] because there's got to be someone giving you a juice
[14:33] every three miles.
[14:34] I will be there.
[14:35] It's also the best opportunity to get the coolest shirt of all
[14:38] the nonprofit shirts around in this area I just got costs.
[14:42] You like 30 bucks.
[14:43] So get on down.
[14:45] That's all I got I have never once thought
[14:48] I need to go out, walk, bike or hike for 20 miles.
[14:52] Maybe the quarter mile super visor missile.
[14:55] Thank you.
[14:56] No announcements All right.
[14:57] No more commentary from me.
[14:58] Supervisor real office?
[14:59] No.
[15:00] Currently I I ask for For what, we had a C c v v meeting,
[15:04] and I will send to the board what
[15:08] was said that we have done them and their wish
[15:11] list that might have already been sent to the board.
[15:13] But i'll be send it just in case where the pen tops
[15:16] meeting a good turnout.
[15:18] And we had parks and Rec there which
[15:21] we were very grateful for because they told us
[15:25] about things that are coming up And I
[15:27] think one of our big projects is the old Mills Trail.
[15:30] So we're we're trying to get that accomplished
[15:33] And we do have monies from the state believe it or not.
[15:37] It's a miracle.
[15:38] So we're very happy about that.
[15:40] So hopefully we can get all that completed Thank you.
[15:44] Thank you.
[15:45] You.
[15:45] Did you have your.
[15:46] I found them.
[15:47] Yeah.
[15:47] You had to make them myself.
[15:48] So has household hazardous waste.
[15:50] Those are the paints, the pesticides the chemicals
[15:53] that you've been lurking around your garage and barn.
[15:56] That is September 18 and 19th.
[15:58] And the hours are 8:30 to 4 for all the days of furniture
[16:03] and mattresses as September 26th,
[16:06] appliances October 3rd and tires the dreaded tires, October 10th.
[16:11] You don't want those lying around either because the scope
[16:15] edge of the tires holds on to rainwater
[16:16] and then the mosquitoes love it.
[16:18] And then you're in big trouble.
[16:19] So get rid of all that stuff.
[16:20] This fall.
[16:21] Thank you.
[16:21] Thank you very much.
[16:22] All right Thank you.
[16:23] Board.
[16:24] I do not have any announcements today
[16:27] that will move us to proclaim ations and recognitions.
[16:30] Item number Six, we do have a proclamation recognizing
[16:33] September as national suicide Prevention Awareness Month
[16:37] we have with us today Mike Fox of The Verge.
[16:40] He is the Virginia Chapter leader
[16:41] of Moms Demand action for Gun Sense in America
[16:44] and vice chair missile is going to read this proclamation
[16:47] as a motion Great.
[16:49] Thank you.
[16:49] I'm honored to read this.
[16:51] Happy to read this proclamation and recognize is in September is
[16:55] National suicide prevention awareness Month,
[16:57] whereas every year, 27,000 people in the United States die
[17:01] by firearm suicide an average of 718 people in Virginia die
[17:05] by firearm suicide.
[17:06] Nearly six out of every ten gun deaths in the U.S.
[17:09] are suicide aids.
[17:11] And during the last two decades, youth suicide
[17:13] has reached its highest rate.
[17:14] And.
[17:15] Whereas, Albemarle County joins in observing national suicide
[17:18] prevention Awareness Month by raising awareness
[17:20] to foster a culture of understanding and empathy
[17:23] and encourage community members to become better educated
[17:26] on the signs of suicide.
[17:27] Risk factors Elevate local suicide prevention resources
[17:31] and destigmatize conversations around mental health.
[17:34] And.
[17:34] Whereas As the 988 or sorry, 9, 8, eight suicide and crisis
[17:40] lifeline, the trevor Project and local providers
[17:43] play a helpful role in suicide prevention and mental health
[17:45] support by offering immediate confidential assistance 24 seven
[17:50] to people in suicide or crisis or emotional distress.
[17:53] And.
[17:54] Whereas, Albemarle County has played an important role
[17:56] in suicide prevention by local advocates lawmakers
[17:59] and University of Virginia law students
[18:01] successfully fished but pushing for substantial risk order
[18:04] reforms The success of the Human Services Alternative
[18:08] response Team, or Heart and the school board
[18:10] secure for firearm storage resolution
[18:13] serving as a model for other localities And.
[18:16] Whereas, There are many low gate organizations,
[18:19] many local organizations, including moms demand Action
[18:22] for Gun Sense in America Students Demand action The
[18:26] American Foundation for Suicide prevention,
[18:29] the PLM Legacy Foundation, Regent ten
[18:32] and the National Alliance on Mental Illness dedicated
[18:35] to saving lives and bringing hope through research, education
[18:39] policies, advocacy and resources for those who have lost someone
[18:43] to suicide, who struggle with suicidal ideation
[18:47] or have otherwise been affected by suicide.
[18:50] Now, therefore be it proclaimed that we the Albemarle
[18:53] County Board of Supervisors, do hereby
[18:55] recognize suicide as a public health problem and designate.
[18:59] September 20th 26 as national suicide Prevention Awareness
[19:03] Month Signed the second day of September 20, 26.
[19:07] Chair Ned Galloway Second, all right.
[19:10] The motion has been made and seconded without objection,
[19:13] if the clerk will please call the roll missile piece.
[19:15] So currently I miss Malik.
[19:17] Yes, Mr. Missile I. Mr. Pruitt.
[19:19] All right.
[19:20] Ms..
[19:20] Duncan.
[19:20] Yes, Mr. Galloway Yes.
[19:23] All right.
[19:23] Thank you.
[19:24] Board Mr. Fox, we'd like to invite you up to the podium.
[19:26] You're welcome to make some remarks.
[19:29] And then the supervisors will probably make some remarks
[19:31] and then we'll bring the proclamation down.
[19:34] Thank you.
[19:35] You, Mr. Chairman.
[19:36] Supervisor.
[19:37] Mr. Alan all of you, for your support
[19:39] and recognizing that suicide prevention is
[19:41] part of creating safer and healthier communities
[19:44] Suicide is preventable Suicide is preventable.
[19:48] The vast majority of people who survive a suicide attempt do not
[19:51] go on to die by suicide Keeping people safe
[19:55] means taking seriously the moments when someone
[19:57] is in crisis and doing what we can
[19:59] to put time and distance between that crisis and lethal means.
[20:04] This includes our kids suicide is the second leading
[20:07] cause of death among young people ages 10 to 24.
[20:10] In the United States, suicide among pre-teens, pre-teens
[20:15] has risen sharply over the past two decades.
[20:18] Whether it's passing new laws in Richmond
[20:20] or investing in community based solutions here at home.
[20:23] Every act of kindness and every connection can make a difference
[20:27] and save a life Thank you again for your commitment
[20:29] and reaffirming that our community can
[20:31] be a place where people know they are seeing valued
[20:34] and not alone Thank you, sir.
[20:38] We'll see.
[20:39] Go through the supervisor, see what comments we have.
[20:41] Supervisor Malik.
[20:42] Well, I just want to, again, thank my constituents
[20:45] in those from the other rest of the county for all the work
[20:49] that you do behind the scenes to build those bridges that you
[20:52] just been describing, because the sense of hopelessness
[20:55] that people feel because they don't think there's
[20:58] anyone else out there who might understand really
[21:00] makes it worse.
[21:01] And access to the guns makes it.
[21:02] Final So I thank you again.
[21:04] Thank you, ma'am.
[21:05] Supervisor Duncan I just want to thank you for the work on this.
[21:10] It's you know, obviously very important.
[21:11] So thank you for bringing this to us.
[21:13] And also for us to do.
[21:16] Thank you.
[21:16] Supervisor Pruitt thank you so much for your advocacy
[21:20] on this issue.
[21:21] It's something that I feel touches
[21:23] me very directly as someone who is both a gun owner
[21:25] and struggles with depression as someone who has served
[21:29] on a ship where everyone carried firearms, sometimes
[21:33] in the course of their duty, and we also had processes
[21:36] because in the sector of the Navy,
[21:38] I worked in suicidal ideation was quite common We had
[21:42] processes where you could just walk
[21:44] into your commanding officers office and say Hey, sir,
[21:48] I have reason to be concerned about Ensign Schmuck Catelli
[21:52] wanting to do self harm.
[21:53] I would ask that you temporarily suspend this gun
[21:55] qualification of the army.
[21:57] And it happens And that was done.
[22:00] And it's a fairly standard process.
[22:04] I think it's safe Really simple.
[22:07] Modeling of how we can use policy
[22:09] to make it so that we can keep our communities
[22:12] safe without harming people's rights.
[22:14] And I'm really grateful for the kind of advocacy
[22:16] that you have led with moms that has made tools
[22:19] like this available here in Virginia Thank you, sir.
[22:23] Supervisor Missile.
[22:24] Yeah, I just echo the thanks and acknowledge the importance
[22:28] of this work I've had three cloves friends
[22:32] and colleagues in the last ten years
[22:34] who have directly experienced suicide of a family member
[22:38] And it's just you know, the lasting impact
[22:41] the lasting, I don't know, just pain that it brings
[22:44] is just mind blowing.
[22:46] It's just horrible.
[22:47] So critically important.
[22:48] And thank you for the work you're doing.
[22:50] Thank you sir.
[22:51] Supervisor of pistol.
[22:52] Currently Please continue to do your good work and your efforts
[22:56] because when someone commits suicide,
[23:00] that leaves friends and family members wondering why they never
[23:03] get that answer.
[23:04] Really?
[23:05] Why did that happen?
[23:06] So anything we can do to help mitigate that and help
[23:12] other people.
[23:14] But i do have one question for you.
[23:16] You mentioned pre-teens, which really disturbs me
[23:20] And is that it's been a direct link between that and maybe
[23:25] social media.
[23:27] Do you know based on what I read,
[23:29] it's like during the pandemic and all the levels of temper
[23:32] and off a little bit, they are still
[23:33] climbing some I think that that could be a contributor
[23:37] contributor based on what I've heard from some of our community
[23:40] partners and experts in the field
[23:42] that people might see that as they either
[23:47] gained so much stress from it and bullying
[23:49] and that sort of thing.
[23:50] Cyber bullying and all that, that that's the reaction to it.
[23:54] So it.
[23:56] It's possible Thank you.
[23:58] You.
[23:58] And thank you for what you do.
[24:00] Sure Thank you.
[24:01] Yes.
[24:01] Thank you, Mr. Fox and I join in,
[24:03] endorse everything that other supervisors have said.
[24:05] Appreciate it.
[24:06] Occurs to me, like I teach a course, on Tuesday
[24:09] nights and college level and it's really just a
[24:14] how do you go through class?
[24:15] And one of the things.
[24:16] It's like, don't wait till you're either in failure
[24:19] mode or crisis mode.
[24:20] Ask you got to ask early And this is just stuff
[24:22] about maybe being behind on schoolwork or things like that.
[24:25] But as you're talking, it's the same thing.
[24:28] It's not just it's easier to ask when
[24:30] you start to have the confusion or the struggle about things
[24:33] than it is when you're in a failure mode or crisis mode
[24:36] So I appreciate all the efforts you organizations do
[24:39] to help encourage that.
[24:40] But it's not just put on the individual who's
[24:42] feeling confused It's also contingent on the rest of us
[24:45] that if we're seeing somebody having a struggle
[24:47] or confusion to reach out and go, Hey are you okay?
[24:50] And what's going on?
[24:51] Before they get to failure and crisis mode?
[24:53] Because it's just more difficult to act rationally when you're
[24:58] in crisis mode for everybody.
[25:00] Yeah.
[25:01] So just kudos to all the education
[25:03] you're putting out there around the issue,
[25:05] but also reminding everybody that, hey
[25:08] ask because there is help out there and check in
[25:11] on people because we can also provide that help to folks.
[25:14] So thank you So thank you.
[25:15] The vice chair will bring the proclamation down for you
[25:26] This is thank you again OK Board We're
[25:38] going to go to item seven public comment
[25:40] on matters previously considered or currently pending
[25:43] before the board.
[25:44] Other than scheduled for public hearings.
[25:46] Looks like we have some folks signed up.
[25:47] So vice chair missile will take us through the procedures
[25:51] and then lead us through our speakers.
[25:53] Happy to.
[25:54] Looks like we have no one on line today
[25:58] so I will read the in person only during this portion
[26:01] of the meeting.
[26:02] Individual is may address the board regarding matters
[26:04] previously considered by the Board
[26:05] are currently pending before the Board
[26:07] other than an item scheduled for public hearing,
[26:09] speakers are limited to one opportunity
[26:11] of up to three minutes to ensure equal treatment and courtesy
[26:15] for all speakers.
[26:15] The board requests that the following guidelines be observed
[26:18] Please state your name.
[26:19] And if you live in Albemarle County or magisterial district
[26:21] comments should be directed to the board
[26:23] as a whole Written statements or supporting materials
[26:26] may be provided to the clerk if representing a group
[26:28] or organization you may ask others present to raise
[26:31] their hands and recognize the speakers
[26:33] may not share unused time with another speaker Back and forth
[26:36] debate is not permitted.
[26:37] And speakers should not speak from their seat
[26:39] or out of turn the podium timer will guide your time green.
[26:42] Indicate your time has begun.
[26:44] Yellow means one minute remains and to read
[26:46] indicate your time has expired.
[26:48] All comments are recorded live streamed
[26:50] and published on the county website.
[26:52] The sign up period is closed once public comment begins
[26:56] the podium is adjustable.
[26:57] Speakers may raise or lower to they're
[26:59] able to speak directly into the microphone We
[27:02] will begin with Mr. Rick Randolph
[27:13] Good afternoon, Members of the board.
[27:15] Kirk Randolph, who reside at 3191 Derby Road,
[27:18] Keswick is both discussed for supervisor and Planning
[27:22] commissioner I continually advocated
[27:24] for public accountability by Habitat regarding
[27:27] both held county supported Two funds are utilized
[27:31] and held Predevelopment South ward residents are affected
[27:34] by this unique large redevelopment project
[27:37] this afternoon you have before you a performance
[27:40] agreement for phase two of the Southwood neighborhood
[27:42] Model District Three of you have seen
[27:45] a mostly similar code of development
[27:47] before when it was on the 12, 1521 board concerning agenda.
[27:52] The rest of you i recognize, may not
[27:55] have this room to bring to the attention of those three of you
[27:59] who probably have not that the original progression
[28:02] of the redevelopment and phase two was to begin in block 18
[28:06] and then proceed in the clockwise direction
[28:09] sweeping the land to turn east to 17, 22 26 and 25,
[28:16] and then end in block 34 a drive through south yesterday showed
[28:22] that many of those blocks are being worked on simultaneously
[28:26] where one wonders are the resulting displaced residents
[28:31] being housed County staff has indicated that 81 original
[28:35] families were rehoused by June 26th of this year If we used
[28:40] to accept this statistical average of five persons per
[28:43] family that would yield some 405 persons for 105 persons only
[28:49] represents 31% of South Woods original 1300 residents,
[28:55] where those other residents today,
[28:59] because they can't all be in.
[29:00] Southwick Those anybody want to know where they are ?
[29:04] Does anybody really care?
[29:07] Those are all the morals public deserve to know.
[29:11] The request today is for the county
[29:13] to commit to providing habitat with 15.75 million
[29:18] and to funds as real estate turns over in South Portland
[29:22] as market appreciation occurs.
[29:24] So the market value of homes there has a board same
[29:27] projection of the amount of the capture property tax revenue
[29:32] that will accumulate in a county account and is then available
[29:36] to be pulled back into southward to help pay for public
[29:40] improvements Site cleanup utilities and roads, etc..
[29:44] So if the public deserve to see this projection
[29:47] and how about a conservative projection
[29:50] of when those property taxes will be directed solely
[29:53] to the county's budget and will no longer be reserved?
[29:56] Excuse of Lee for Southwick And finally, by what percentage
[30:01] are the counties revenues projected
[30:04] to increase as a result of the capture of those now
[30:07] roads reserve funds?
[30:10] I submit the board and taxpayers deserve
[30:13] to have this information Thank you.
[30:15] Thank you.
[30:17] Pam Reilly good afternoon to providers.
[30:28] I'm Pam Reilly and i live at 1375 Mill
[30:31] Drive in the Scottsville magisterial district.
[30:34] I served on the Scottsville planning commission
[30:36] during the Phase one review and approval,
[30:40] and I care deeply about southwards redevelopment in part
[30:43] because my career was in nonprofit affordable housing
[30:46] and community reinvestment.
[30:49] And you all know phase one was approved
[30:50] by the county in the June 2019 and a cornerstone
[30:54] of that approval was a commitment of no displacement
[30:58] of the residents living in South Would
[31:00] because some of the Planning commission,
[31:02] the board of Supervisors, had grave concerns
[31:04] about potential displacement of residents.
[31:07] The Board of Supervisors required habitat
[31:09] to develop a non displacement plan
[31:11] and to report on any relocation or displacement of the residents
[31:14] as did the Board of Supervisors.
[31:17] Receive written reports on resident relocation
[31:20] and displacement during the past seven years.
[31:22] Have you all been given written information
[31:25] about where the legacy residents are today
[31:27] as part of your review for the funding for Phase two?
[31:31] If not I would urge you to review this information
[31:34] before committing an additional almost 16 million in Phase two.
[31:39] I've been trying to obtain this information personally
[31:41] since last February when I requested the land displacement
[31:45] data from Dr. Pathy and after several followups
[31:48] on my part and no response, by July,
[31:50] I fortuitously ran into county executive Jeff Richardson
[31:55] and I asked him to please investigate this matter.
[31:58] He got right on it.
[31:59] And Ms..
[32:00] The chief human resources officer
[32:02] contacted me and she sent me copies
[32:04] of habitats that were provided to them in terms of the draw
[32:09] downs for phase one.
[32:10] And that contained information about the number
[32:12] of affordable units developed, the number of units
[32:15] purchased or rented by Southwood families.
[32:18] But there's no information regarding the families that
[32:20] may have been otherwise relocated or displaced
[32:24] other than the comments that maybe some families
[32:27] chose to leave on their own accord
[32:30] It's quite possible that the county does not
[32:32] have this information and that the non displacement data
[32:35] or reports were never submitted.
[32:37] Habitat did provide the non displacement plan to the county
[32:40] and to the state as part of the requirement for state funding.
[32:43] They have.
[32:44] We housing specialist with and they
[32:46] works with all the residents and the habitat staff
[32:48] is responsible for maintaining secure records
[32:51] for all households and the uniform relocation Act
[32:54] assessment forms that they submitted to the state.
[32:56] They describe their relocation record
[32:58] keeping to keep copies of relocation advisory notes
[33:01] offers a relocation assistance claims of once appeals, etc.
[33:05] So this data should be available to the county
[33:07] and to the public the taxpayers of the county
[33:11] deserve to know what happened to the original residents
[33:13] of Southwood Please obtain this information and review it.
[33:17] Thank you for listening to my concerns today.
[33:20] Thank you Thank you.
[33:21] And last on our list is Peter Kraus Good afternoon.
[33:35] I'm Peter Krebs from the Piedmont Environmental council
[33:38] and I'm also on the board of the County Parks Foundation
[33:41] The administrator follows Thrive in a river
[33:43] from the tail park along the edge of town tops
[33:47] to where it ends currently near the hospital.
[33:50] It's a beautiful place to walk, bike or run,
[33:53] and it's easily accessible to thousands of people.
[33:57] They've been long standing plans to extend this trail for miles
[34:00] further into the county.
[34:02] Connecting with an existing trail in Glenmore
[34:05] to create an unbroken ten eight mile greenway
[34:09] This will be stunning and it'll be really unrivaled anywhere
[34:13] in the state It's so exciting Much of the land in between
[34:19] is owned by and Trello, but the county
[34:21] has the right of way easement to make
[34:24] the trail during the rezoning.
[34:27] There is a timeline limit placed on that easement and work has
[34:31] to begin by 2027, which is right around the corner.
[34:37] I'm excited to say that it looks like the county is going
[34:40] to meet that deadline and start work next year There's
[34:45] a small reference in today's consent
[34:47] agenda about a grant from DCR to pay for this expense
[34:51] And although we don't know yet whether the county will receive
[34:55] the grant.
[34:56] All indications are very good and whether or not
[35:01] we get the grant The county staff has
[35:04] been very creative in identifying funding sources,
[35:08] including major pledges from the parks
[35:10] Foundation and many other groups and organizations.
[35:14] Also to their credit, they've found solutions
[35:16] to some of the problems that have really
[35:18] vexed a whole generation.
[35:20] Write the planners such as How do we get past the railroad?
[35:23] How do we get permission from the Udot?
[35:25] All of those plausible answers and it
[35:28] looks very promising i invite the community
[35:37] to come see what is possible.
[35:39] The Parks Foundation and P.S. Are co-hosting a kickoff party
[35:43] for the old Mills Trail as part of the In Basin Conference
[35:47] on September 30.
[35:50] So it's after the conference.
[35:52] It will be from 4 to 7.
[35:53] It's free, open to the public I've
[35:55] spoken to a couple of our new residents.
[35:58] They're super excited So they're actually hosting the party
[36:01] at their clubhouse, which is across the street
[36:03] from the hospital.
[36:05] So if we get the grant it'll be a great kickstart,
[36:08] but it won't be the end of the project quite the contrary.
[36:11] So if you're thinking about upcoming coming budget,
[36:14] please include monies for a greenway like the old Mills
[36:17] Trail, which contribute to quality of life for residents
[36:21] and also to the county's billion dollar business economy.
[36:25] So excited.
[36:26] And I look forward to seeing you on the 30th,
[36:29] if not sooner Thank you.
[36:31] I have flyers.
[36:32] I'll leave with this one.
[36:34] Appreciate it.
[36:34] Thank you.
[36:35] And we do have one speaker who has joined us online,
[36:38] and that is Pat sale in Houston Is Houston, are you there ?
[36:54] Come on back I don't think so.
[36:59] There you may begin smoking Good afternoon.
[37:07] Are you there now?
[37:16] All right.
[37:17] Last call.
[37:17] This is why I cannot go of this.
[37:20] All right.
[37:21] We got change Good afternoon.
[37:23] Are you there?
[37:25] I hope so.
[37:25] There you are Good afternoon.
[37:27] You can.
[37:27] You can begin when you're ready.
[37:29] Yeah.
[37:30] Thank you very much.
[37:32] There was a delay in that permission coming through.
[37:34] Thank you very much.
[37:35] And it was very interesting to hear the previous speaker
[37:38] about being able to use trails and have more development
[37:42] of the trail out there.
[37:44] My name is Pat in Houston.
[37:45] I live on Sugar Ridge road.
[37:47] And until recently, our understanding
[37:50] is that we were on a no paved list We've just
[37:54] heard there is some looking at you know, promoting
[37:58] the rural qualities of Albemarle County
[38:00] by preserving some of the key rural
[38:03] and paved roads maybe dispersed throughout the region.
[38:06] We aren't somewhere that we can really have trails
[38:10] except for going up into hiking areas
[38:13] But it is a very special region that we're
[38:14] at that people come to for a walking rain bike
[38:19] and and it really is a neighborhood of walkers.
[38:24] It's like a little community We live on this dirt road.
[38:27] And our farmhouse is so close to the road.
[38:29] We could almost shake hands with somebody walking by.
[38:32] When we came to love the nature and the surroundings.
[38:35] But we got to know it's a very mixed bag of experiences.
[38:38] And there are many downsides.
[38:40] And I acknowledge that on the list of which is not
[38:43] to promise when it's icy or all the credible dust
[38:47] we can get into our home, even though there
[38:50] is that we are in a section that we have observed how people
[38:55] really try and speed coming down the hill from the direction
[38:58] of sugar hollow.
[38:59] And I think there is a high risk for losing this ability
[39:03] to have as a walking and bicycling
[39:06] and running area should be paved even if there's signs posted.
[39:12] I'm even somebody who can be guilty of going
[39:16] faster than opposed to areas, especially if i'm
[39:20] thinking my needs to hurry.
[39:22] Are outweighing the speed limit So I do confess
[39:25] that it's a natural thing that people do.
[39:28] I think that having people speed down at 50 and 55 miles an hour,
[39:33] if they're not slowed by the gravel and dust and dirt
[39:41] is going to greatly change an impact and the ability
[39:44] for people to have this as an area,
[39:48] not just where people live here, but people come and train here.
[39:53] There are runners groups that come in, small groups and also
[39:56] large groups.
[39:57] We also still occasionally have horses
[40:00] that come along this road.
[40:03] I would doubt that would convenient
[40:04] be continued From what I've seen, the narrow country
[40:08] roads that have become paved the that the edges of them
[40:13] are hard to even find a place to walk on
[40:16] And as far as being safer during ice storms,
[40:21] my scariest moments on the road have been when somebody is
[40:24] coming down toward my road toward my car
[40:27] from the opposite direction, and they're losing control
[40:29] from excess speed.
[40:31] I don't think paving is going to be a great and addition
[40:36] to traveling with Ice storms.
[40:39] There are so many trees that come down Ma'am,
[40:42] your time has expired.
[40:43] If you were good clue.
[40:44] Thank you so much.
[40:46] That concludes our list.
[40:48] All right.
[40:49] Thank you to those who came out to provide public comment today.
[40:53] Board We will move to item number eight.
[40:55] Our concern at agenda.
[40:57] Any items that need to be pulled from consent.
[41:00] Is there a motion to adopt the consent agenda?
[41:03] So moved.
[41:04] Second.
[41:05] All right.
[41:05] The motion has been made and seconded Without objection,
[41:07] if the clerk will please call the roll missile piece.
[41:10] Currently Hi, Ms..
[41:11] Mallett.
[41:12] Yes Mr. Missal.
[41:13] Hi, Mr. Prewitt.
[41:15] Hi, Ms..
[41:15] Duncan.
[41:16] Yes, Mr. Galloway.
[41:17] Yes.
[41:18] All right.
[41:19] Thank you for that motion passes.
[41:22] And we will now move to item number nine.
[41:25] This is an action item Habitat for Humanity,
[41:28] Southwest phase two performance agreement to Mr. Sumner.
[41:31] Ms..
[41:32] Demick joining us.
[41:32] Good afternoon Good.
[41:35] Good afternoon Pull up the presentation Go.
[41:52] Excellent Good afternoon, Chair.
[41:57] Galloway and members of the board.
[41:58] Kathy Dimock, Chief humans services Officer.
[42:01] And I'm here with my very competent colleague,
[42:03] Jacob sumner, your chief financial Officer,
[42:07] to seek permission for the county executive
[42:09] to enter into a performance agreement with Habitat
[42:12] for Humanity of Greater Charlottesville for phase
[42:14] Two of the Southwood neighborhood Redevelopment
[42:17] Project.
[42:18] Also here in the audience is Dan rosensweig, president and CEO
[42:22] of habitat for Humanity of Greater Charlottesville in case
[42:25] there are questions, Mr. Sumner and I are unable to answer we
[42:29] understand the board's interest and in incentivizing
[42:32] the development of affordable housing
[42:34] and ensuring accountability for the use of public funds in such
[42:38] a pursuit.
[42:39] We are confident that the components of the performance
[42:42] agreement serve both of these interests
[42:44] as well We will review the project
[42:49] history of previous agreements, detail the conditions,
[42:52] restrictions and expectations and a performance
[42:55] agreement for Phase two.
[42:57] Provide time for questions or feedback
[42:59] and ask that you consider the resolution that
[43:02] was attachment to and your executive summary agenda
[43:05] materials for this item As you are aware, habitat for Humanity
[43:11] purchased the Hundreds acre Southwood neighborhood
[43:14] property in 2007 in an effort to prevent a mass tenant
[43:18] displacement Habitat organized a resident led initiative to build
[43:23] plans for an inclusive, mixed income development
[43:26] with a range of housing types and neighborhood
[43:29] amenities including community gathering places.
[43:32] Supports for small business operations, parks and playing
[43:36] fields Albemarle County and the Economic Development Authority
[43:42] entered into a performance agreement
[43:43] with Habitat for humanity to redevelop the village's one
[43:47] and two as part of phase one.
[43:49] On July First, 2019, Habitat has moved on.
[43:55] Phase two, which is now in development and constitutes
[43:58] villages three through 11 and completes the project.
[44:03] This is a complex and complicated development process,
[44:06] particularly because of the neighborhood residents remained
[44:09] in the park throughout the development process Phase two,
[44:15] including the redevelopment of 86 acres with a thousand
[44:19] dwelling units, includes single fan blades attached and detached
[44:23] homes and multifamily housing The redevelopment proposal was
[44:27] reviewed by the Planning Commission on April 26th, 2022,
[44:31] and approved by the board on November 2 2022.
[44:36] Mr. Sumner will now review the framework of the performance
[44:39] agreement, including conditions, obligations and compliance
[44:42] expectations Thank you, Kathy.
[44:47] Good afternoon.
[44:47] My name is Jacob Sumner.
[44:48] I'm Chief Financial Officer for the county estate commission.
[44:52] We are here today asking the board
[44:53] to allow staff to draft and develop and execute
[44:55] a performance agreement.
[44:57] But Habitat that supports phase two of the Southwood development
[45:00] The maximum amount of financial incentives attached to the forms
[45:03] Agreement is $15.75 million, spread out over 20 years.
[45:09] The funding for the incentive will
[45:10] be derived from the incremental increase in the real estate
[45:13] property tax generated from phase two of the project.
[45:18] As this agreement is performance based,
[45:20] there are several conditions and obligations
[45:22] will look for habitat to meet.
[45:24] This would include that at minimum habitat excuse
[45:27] me, would construct at least 227 affordable units
[45:30] at or below 80%.
[45:32] AMI.
[45:33] This would also require non displacement
[45:35] of original Southwood residents In addition,
[45:38] we would require a 40 year period
[45:39] of affordability for home ownership units
[45:41] and a 30 year period of affordability for rental units.
[45:45] Habitat would need to provided plan
[45:47] insuring income diversity and community integration
[45:49] within their development.
[45:50] Along the way, Habitat has shown an interest
[45:53] in developing community center within phase two
[45:55] and could be contingent upon access
[45:57] to outside funding availability.
[46:00] As required.
[46:01] As required in the development habitat
[46:02] will be responsible for owning all the infrastructure
[46:05] necessary to complete the project From a compliance
[46:09] perspective, we would require habitat
[46:11] to provide bi annual reports on the development, including
[46:13] their construction progress.
[46:15] Any barriers or delays that they're experiencing and metrics
[46:18] on the number of units developed rented or sold.
[46:21] There would also need to remain in good standing
[46:23] with the state and the county.
[46:24] Regarding project activities related
[46:26] to permitting zoning and building code regulations
[46:30] and be current on any applicable taxes or fees.
[46:33] The financial incentive will be paid out twice a year,
[46:36] 45 days after the real estate tax due date.
[46:39] The deadline for the required reporting
[46:41] would be before the tax due date to ensure compliance
[46:43] is met prior to disbursing disbursement of the incentive
[46:46] payment From a budgetary perspective,
[46:51] face two would increase future real property tax revenues.
[46:54] The incentive payments would be funded
[46:55] by the incremental increase in the real property taxes
[46:59] and both the revenues incentive payments will be incorporated
[47:01] into future budgets So these are the parameters
[47:06] that we are looking at to include
[47:08] in the performance agreement committee of the board.
[47:10] So chooses to move forward with forms
[47:12] agreement that has been requested today.
[47:15] And KKR are here available to answer any questions
[47:18] that you all have.
[47:19] All right.
[47:20] Thank you both.
[47:21] Supervisor Malik I wanted to thank you
[47:24] for your very complete answers to my questions
[47:27] from earlier, because I'm one, I needed more details
[47:31] than what was in the staff report
[47:32] And I'm really grateful for all the digging in that you
[47:34] have done and will do.
[47:35] And what you describe here this morning
[47:37] to make sure that everybody is going
[47:40] to be held to a timetable of, you
[47:42] know, just not just one side, because they
[47:44] can't operate without us.
[47:45] And we can't operate without them.
[47:47] So we're all in this together and i guess later,
[47:51] we can get a formal answer on the displacement question
[47:56] because i think there is one.
[47:58] Thank you All right.
[48:00] Supervisor Duncan, no questions.
[48:02] Supervisor Pruitt ?
[48:05] Yes So the kind of crux of this is around the tiff structure,
[48:10] and it's occurring to me that doing it
[48:13] as we are in multiple phases and with a very public process.
[48:16] I'm curious is there is the total value of the tiff not
[48:21] kind of altered by the publicity of it, as in.
[48:25] We are raising the base at which it's
[48:27] going to be assessed at before actually starting that process.
[48:30] Does that make sense ?
[48:33] We wouldn't be raising the base.
[48:35] I think the I guess I'm saying that the fact that it is known
[48:39] that there is going to be a a development here could raise
[48:45] the assessed value of that development even before ground
[48:48] is broken Does that make sense ?
[48:51] I understand where you're going, but when
[48:53] we would look at the property and the parcels, when we're
[48:55] dealing the real estate assessment each year,
[48:57] it would be looked at the market in totality
[49:00] And so when we look at real estate assessments,
[49:03] you look at more of our neighborhoods and neighborhood
[49:05] districts and so it is a little more
[49:09] geographic than the neighborhood of Southwood itself proper.
[49:14] So I would suspect that the the risk reassessment
[49:21] or the assessment of those properties
[49:22] will be based on the current conditions
[49:24] and as the four phases are built out over time,
[49:27] you know, those assessments will change
[49:29] and those will grow as they continue
[49:31] to grow from either raw or undeveloped land to more on land
[49:37] will have improvements on them.
[49:38] Got it.
[49:40] I'm also realizing I don't know, the structure of this discussion
[49:45] that literally the structure of the agenda item before us.
[49:48] In my mind, I might be thinking of it
[49:51] similar to a hearing for a zoning approval.
[49:54] It's not right.
[49:56] There is not going to be.
[49:57] Now we're turning it over to the applicant to speak.
[50:00] I think this is structurally the only time
[50:02] we're really going to have questions and discussions.
[50:05] I mention that because there's previously a they were concerned
[50:09] about displacement but maybe we'll hear from that later.
[50:12] I'm not sure there is another time to hear for it.
[50:15] So I guess I would just ask kind of generally, could you could
[50:18] you help characterize and respond
[50:20] to so the question about the current status of reporting
[50:23] related to displacement of the previous phase
[50:26] whether or not there's any contemplated changes to that
[50:29] and whether or not there's any concerns
[50:31] that staff is seeing on that.
[50:32] And that was three questions.
[50:33] Sorry I'm able to answer many of those questions,
[50:38] but there are detailed that I'm able to answer at this time,
[50:43] though i suspect Mr. Rosenzweig has those answers.
[50:46] So if there's a mechanism for recognizing
[50:49] him to answer those questions that would certainly
[50:52] provide a more fulsome answer.
[50:54] We have the county has received all
[50:56] of the required reporting around displacement and status
[51:00] of phase one, sufficient to satisfy
[51:04] the distribution of the funds both the granting of funds
[51:06] and the the real site tax based ones.
[51:12] So we have certainly been satisfied with what we've heard.
[51:16] I understand that Habitat is required
[51:19] to maintain individual and non displacement
[51:22] records for every individual who is in the park,
[51:25] but they are not required to distribute those to us.
[51:28] And so they're required to have them.
[51:30] And I understand they could make them available for the county
[51:33] to see.
[51:33] That is not that was not a component of phase One's
[51:36] performance agreement nor is it a component of our proposed
[51:39] Phase two agreement, we have no concerns
[51:42] on this issue I guess I might also ask the Chair if it would
[51:51] be appropriate to recognize Mr. Rosenzweig
[51:53] for any additional information he might want to add
[51:55] on this question If there's no objection by a supervisor,
[51:58] it's appropriate since the questions raised
[52:03] and the answer could be no further comment.
[52:05] I don't want to ask you to provide information
[52:09] that you don't have or don't want to provide.
[52:11] Have you ever heard me say no comment and mr. Rosensweig,
[52:14] before again, I mean, for the record
[52:16] we have other instances where there have been action
[52:18] items before us, including homestays where we've
[52:20] allowed folks to come up and speak as long
[52:22] as the board allows them.
[52:23] So you're also.
[52:24] Thank you, sir.
[52:25] I think I appreciate that.
[52:26] I'm Dan Rosensweig.
[52:26] In the presidency of Habitat.
[52:28] Make sure you maybe raise that up.
[52:29] Dan, you it might be.
[52:30] There's a button on the there's a button on the left below.
[52:34] So.
[52:35] Oh, yeah it's pretty cool.
[52:37] Unless I broke it before the meeting
[52:39] when I love that because my back always hurts.
[52:41] After speaking.
[52:42] I'm Dan Rosensweig, president and CEO of Habitat for Humanity
[52:45] of Greater Charlottesville.
[52:46] I really appreciate you inviting me up to clarify
[52:49] and I appreciate the staff for all the time.
[52:50] They've put in not just to clarify these questions,
[52:53] but in putting together the agreement that we feel very,
[52:56] very good about in terms of non displacement,
[52:59] trying to follow the speakers.
[53:01] So that I could address them directly with facts.
[53:05] I had a hard time following those.
[53:08] The numbers and the logic of the first speaker
[53:10] didn't I just I can't say I can address that.
[53:13] The second speaker talked about requirements
[53:17] that in our an agreement that was approved by the county
[53:21] and by HUD about what non what constitutes non displacement.
[53:25] It defines things like persons non displaced etc.
[53:28] It's very, very granular and as Kathy said,
[53:32] we do have a requirement to keep a file and detailed records
[53:36] on everything that happens with families, whether they
[53:39] stay or go.
[53:39] And we have those.
[53:40] And we have no reporting requirement.
[53:42] When we were talking to the county director of housing years
[53:46] ago about what the report should look like,
[53:48] we asked, what do you want to include And one of the things
[53:52] that you'll notice if you see it is that in the reporting that's
[53:54] now required, there is a segment on reporting on families who've
[53:58] been rehoused at Southwood So I can give you
[54:01] some facts around that.
[54:02] And phase one which is 19% of the land mass
[54:06] we have rehoused 89 families from Southwood
[54:10] or 29% of the families who are originally living there.
[54:13] And so we keep track of that as we move through the project.
[54:16] We always want to make sure that there's less land use than there
[54:20] is or there's more capacity to rehouse people
[54:23] as we go through the process There
[54:25] was a question in the first comment.
[54:27] And we have had zero involuntary displacements
[54:31] so not a single family has been in that has been in
[54:34] voluntarily displaced.
[54:35] And as I said, we are happy to share
[54:37] any of that information with the county either as part of this
[54:42] or outside of this.
[54:43] That's fine The the other thing that was brought up
[54:49] was the this question of where are
[54:50] the families As you all know, there was intensive sewer.
[54:54] Great or septic degradation in a section of the park.
[54:58] That was phase two.
[54:59] And so as we were developing phase one,
[55:03] we needed to move some people from that section
[55:06] on an emergency basis within the park, which
[55:08] we did most of those families were able to move either remove
[55:11] their trailers or we were able to purchase a trailer
[55:14] and put it on a pad that we reconstitute it or we purchased
[55:19] back trailers and moved on.
[55:20] But everybody was temporarily rehoused and then apart
[55:22] from just a handful of earlier adopters, the first families
[55:26] that moved in the vast majority of the 89 families
[55:29] who are in there are from the next sections of redevelopment
[55:32] So they've all any area that's been redeveloped,
[55:35] they're either in homes in phase one now,
[55:38] or the temporarily rehoused onsite at somewhere else.
[55:43] We have an 85% stay rate right now.
[55:45] That means that that 85% of the people who
[55:49] were legacy residents, the park who when it came time
[55:52] for their segment of the park to be redeveloped
[55:56] they've elected to stay in there they're
[55:57] staying 15% of the people who have left for a various reasons.
[56:01] Some people just move right.
[56:04] But we've documented all of that that 85% city rate is
[56:11] is a national record for that.
[56:14] The HUD's averages are about for hope.
[56:17] Six projects that were 13% of people staying across all three
[56:22] redevelopment projects in the nation
[56:23] at somewhere between the data is a little sketchy
[56:25] but it's between like 13 and 29% or something like that.
[56:30] So an average of about 20%.
[56:31] So 85% of the people are staying.
[56:34] So we feel very good about it.
[56:36] We're happy to make anything else available.
[56:38] I'm happy to answer any more of your questions
[56:40] The 85% I'm sorry, but is that for the aggregate
[56:44] of the entire community or is that for the components that
[56:47] are currently or have already seen redevelopment Yeah.
[56:51] So there comes a time when we have
[56:53] to redevelop a section of the park where people are.
[56:56] And so people have about a 3 or 4
[56:58] year runway between when we know that we're
[57:00] going to develop that.
[57:01] And when we actually start to develop that And so we
[57:04] bring them in, the first thing that they do
[57:06] is they meet with financial coaches.
[57:07] We get a sense of what they want,
[57:09] not what they can afford now, but what
[57:11] they might be able to afford.
[57:12] And three years from now then they
[57:14] go through a community design process.
[57:16] So those the families from that section
[57:18] of the park work with our designers
[57:21] to design their neighborhood and then the work begins.
[57:24] Then they start working one on one with our financial coaches
[57:27] to get them to a place where they want to be.
[57:29] So they can buy the product that they
[57:31] want when their neighborhood is developed So about 3 or 4 years
[57:34] later, after that, they move.
[57:36] So the 85% is based on the people
[57:39] who have had that have been at that threshold
[57:43] where the first question we say is, do you want to stay or not?
[57:45] Right.
[57:46] And if they don't want to stay, then we
[57:48] work with them to figure out timing.
[57:49] And if they want our help and Rehousing
[57:51] we provide free housing assistance
[57:53] And if they do want a stay, then they
[57:55] work towards mostly homeownership
[57:57] because 80% of the 85% are staying
[58:00] as homeowners or in an affordable rentals
[58:03] and well built, we build affordable rentals as well.
[58:05] Thank you.
[58:06] I think that answers all my questions
[58:07] and that would have been my understanding.
[58:09] The answer to that But, you know,
[58:11] the i think this is kind of the one part
[58:14] of this cycle where it's our job to be quite cynical.
[58:18] And after this, we can proceed together in partnership again
[58:22] And this the cynical thought is, oh, one could one
[58:25] could hypothetically depress that number by treating
[58:28] the entirety of South Wood as the unit that you're evaluating.
[58:33] And then the total amount that have actually
[58:35] made the decision to voluntarily displace would be lower.
[58:39] But that is not what the measure is.
[58:41] No, no, we're adding it, not subtracting it.
[58:44] So in other words it's all the people
[58:46] who are at that precipice where it's time to make
[58:49] a decision of all those people.
[58:51] That's where the 85, 85% of those people have had stayed.
[58:55] Understood.
[58:55] Thank you so much.
[58:57] That's all I have to.
[58:58] All right.
[58:58] Supervisor missile Thanks.
[59:00] Now, you guys both staff and Mr. Rosensweig Yeah.
[59:03] This is great.
[59:04] Just triple teamed.
[59:05] I love it.
[59:07] This is just a follow up in the non displacement plan.
[59:10] I'm just looking at the agreement that was
[59:11] and maybe this is a dated agreement back in 2019.
[59:15] And in there it says as provided in Section 4,
[59:18] a five habitat must obtain approval of the non displacement
[59:21] plan before the county appropriates the first cash
[59:23] contribution and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[59:26] Any amendment to the non displacement plan
[59:28] is also subject to review and approval
[59:29] by the county housing planner.
[59:31] Is that all been done?
[59:32] Is that that's done?
[59:33] Yes.
[59:33] It's under the water received the plan
[59:35] and it was approved prior to the distribution of the first cash
[59:38] payment.
[59:38] Great OK, great.
[59:40] Thank you.
[59:40] And I appreciate also Supervisor Mallex
[59:43] request for additional information that
[59:45] was really helpful and i hope I didn't miss anything
[59:48] because I've tried to review everything
[59:49] that's been coming in over the last couple of days.
[59:52] I just have a couple of questions.
[59:53] One is, as you think about is is there.
[59:57] Do we know what percentage of incremental tax revenue
[59:59] remains with the county if this to cover, for example, schools,
[1:00:05] roads, etc.
[1:00:07] So similar to form screaming or one,
[1:00:11] this would be a phased in approach.
[1:00:13] So we would look at structuring it
[1:00:15] So the first major portion of the time
[1:00:18] period, the 20 year time period would be 100% of the incentive.
[1:00:23] And then that would step down as we
[1:00:25] move towards that latter half of the 20 year mark.
[1:00:29] And that's really to recognize the cost of construction,
[1:00:33] the cost of development and supporting
[1:00:35] the project So through that, through that timeline
[1:00:40] and towards the latter part is when
[1:00:41] we'd start seeing some of the additional revenues coming
[1:00:44] to directly into the county, that would not be
[1:00:46] part of the incentive payment.
[1:00:48] OK, great.
[1:00:49] And I have no doubt they will fulfill everything.
[1:00:52] The a great, great project, highly respected you, Dan,
[1:00:57] is there a clawback or other audit and reporting provisions
[1:01:00] that are in this If for some reason commitments
[1:01:04] aren't fulfilled or maintained ? there are in some
[1:01:07] of the obligations that I talked about earlier and the reporting
[1:01:09] requirements one of the structural things we're looking
[1:01:13] at is the due dates from those that.
[1:01:14] So now we have the reporting requirements
[1:01:16] before we look at the incentive payment got make sure
[1:01:19] that compliance is the measure that all the obligations
[1:01:23] are called out in the agreement are fulfilled before we make
[1:01:27] that incentive payment Okay.
[1:01:29] Great.
[1:01:29] Thank you.
[1:01:30] And then on Slide seven, you don't have to go to the slide,
[1:01:32] but you mentioned the community center
[1:01:34] and I think you mentioned that funding is available.
[1:01:37] So is i guess what is the likelihood of that
[1:01:41] being completed?
[1:01:42] I know maybe that's a crystal ball question.
[1:01:45] Is it really part of the compliance requirements
[1:01:47] or is it.
[1:01:49] We hope it happens, yes.
[1:01:51] To both.
[1:01:52] We're going to incorporate it with the expectation
[1:01:56] that it that it sets that the county is
[1:01:58] interested in investing in the community center
[1:02:00] and has been since prior to 2018 being in that space
[1:02:06] and recognizing that the financial obligation
[1:02:10] for creating that is shared and so
[1:02:14] shared it from what has the frequent been described
[1:02:18] as other people's money in this process,
[1:02:21] as we seek funding from other sources, both habitat seeking
[1:02:24] those sources,
[1:02:25] particularly the potential of using price money
[1:02:27] for that hUD based price funds or any other source
[1:02:32] that we might identify such as any private donor who
[1:02:35] might be listening to this conversation right now
[1:02:37] or wish to invest in community center at some kind of platform
[1:02:42] to say everybody knows what can i clarify something?
[1:02:45] Yes.
[1:02:46] So the money we have, we have money for the center.
[1:02:49] We requested staff allow for an out in case
[1:02:54] that money that is a proper rated by HUD right
[1:02:57] now for some reason gets rescinded given given
[1:03:01] the stuff that's going on Chris, shouldn't it
[1:03:04] be it shouldn't be subject to rescission as per the way
[1:03:09] the the program was structured But we've
[1:03:13] seen across the country that hasn't always been the case.
[1:03:16] So if for some reason, the money that's
[1:03:18] already been appropriated that that's sitting in
[1:03:20] account waiting to fund this.
[1:03:21] Yeah.
[1:03:21] Gets rescinded then we can't promise that.
[1:03:24] I gotcha.
[1:03:25] That's very helpful And just to clarify,
[1:03:27] this is a 40 year homeownership affordability period, right?
[1:03:30] Not 30, because there was a 30 would be for rental units.
[1:03:35] OK.
[1:03:35] And 40 would be for homeownership units.
[1:03:38] And that's a baseline threshold or maybe
[1:03:40] opportunities for longer periods of affordability
[1:03:43] based on some negotiations we've been in with Habitat
[1:03:46] about some scaling around that But for the agreement's sake,
[1:03:51] the baseline can, consistent with housing
[1:03:53] Albemarle got great thank you That's all the questions
[1:03:57] supervisor officer currently any chance of getting that HUD money
[1:04:01] and building it quickly before it gets
[1:04:03] rescinded Yeah, that goes back to the questions
[1:04:07] that that speaker that the members of the public asked
[1:04:10] is that that's right now it's an assignment their trailers are.
[1:04:15] And those folks are now going through that process
[1:04:17] to get themselves ready to purchase homes.
[1:04:21] When we build them.
[1:04:22] We can't we can't move them until we build homes.
[1:04:25] And so that's the limiting factor.
[1:04:27] We're trying to expedite all we can on that.
[1:04:29] But but the governor, on the pace of this project
[1:04:32] is always trying to keep families in their homes
[1:04:36] until they move to their site.
[1:04:38] Yeah OK.
[1:04:39] Thank you.
[1:04:40] Most of my questions were answered.
[1:04:42] But you offered to have the displacement numbers policy, not
[1:04:48] the policy, but the displacement numbers
[1:04:50] are included if that's what we wanted.
[1:04:53] That's something I would like to see.
[1:04:55] How many people each time or if anyone's displaced
[1:04:59] and they accept you know, homeownership
[1:05:02] or rental within South Ward or if they choose to leave,
[1:05:06] I would like to continue receiving those Four years.
[1:05:10] Absolutely.
[1:05:10] OK.
[1:05:11] Thank you.
[1:05:11] The other questions i know Supervisor Malik,
[1:05:14] did you have a follow up just a quick reminder
[1:05:19] of the whole point, as I remember for where
[1:05:23] villages one and two were.
[1:05:24] Was it.
[1:05:24] It was Greenfield And so you can build
[1:05:26] the house in which the people who
[1:05:28] were in the trailers ready to be moved
[1:05:30] could go and not be thrown out too soon.
[1:05:33] So that is sort of what I assumed was the base
[1:05:36] and took care of all those families
[1:05:38] as well And the whole appreciative inquiry process
[1:05:41] that you all have done I mean, it's the first in the nation.
[1:05:44] And having watched from the sidelines
[1:05:45] as these families are working through these things
[1:05:48] and seeing it over ten years, it is incredible
[1:05:51] how the understanding and the evolution of the planning
[1:05:54] And first, well, we want everybody to have a garden
[1:05:56] and then they realize that river garden.
[1:05:58] And then they realized that if they
[1:05:59] did that, there wouldn't be enough room for everybody
[1:06:02] So they had to shrink the lots down and figure out
[1:06:04] who needs what and all these different things that
[1:06:07] were achieved here that have not been achieved.
[1:06:09] And more standard neighborhoods.
[1:06:11] So I really appreciate that.
[1:06:12] Thank you.
[1:06:13] Thank you And Supervisor Duncan, did you have any follow ups?
[1:06:16] All right.
[1:06:16] I have the supervisor for Two quick questions that
[1:06:21] were prompted by this other additional conversation
[1:06:24] and referencing how he would mentioned, you know,
[1:06:26] and we've talked about this before, the governor is always
[1:06:28] on growth.
[1:06:30] And then movement.
[1:06:31] Right.
[1:06:32] And that creates delays in the process.
[1:06:35] So when we talked specifically about the community center,
[1:06:38] looking at the the maps that you provided it does
[1:06:41] look like you're notionally planning on the community center
[1:06:45] a little in a different place than the current community
[1:06:48] center right.
[1:06:48] A little earlier on Hickory Street
[1:06:51] And that now begs the question of the fact
[1:06:54] that there is uncertainty in the funding
[1:06:57] streams for that new community center
[1:07:00] and also the fact that this is an iterative redevelopment
[1:07:03] and phase two, we're going to be on.
[1:07:04] Greenfield Right.
[1:07:05] We're going to be looking at existing construction.
[1:07:07] Appreciate it.
[1:07:09] What does the world look like where that runway on how long
[1:07:13] it takes to secure funding for the new community center
[1:07:18] But we have to do work in the place
[1:07:20] where the old community is there a universe or an alignment,
[1:07:25] an unfortunate alignment of funding streams that has us
[1:07:28] have to bulldoze the old one before the new one is
[1:07:31] ready or funded Now we've done that intentionally.
[1:07:36] And so One of the reasons why we're not
[1:07:38] building that there are multiple reasons to build the community
[1:07:40] center where the new location is For one,
[1:07:43] it's the geographic center of the community.
[1:07:45] It's almost exactly walkable.
[1:07:48] Equally walkable from all sort of outskirts of the community
[1:07:53] The second part is its connection
[1:07:54] with Biscuit run trails.
[1:07:56] So we imagine we're going to build some extra parking
[1:07:59] adjacent to it.
[1:08:00] So that people can park and use that as a trailhead
[1:08:02] and walk into the the park and hopefully come out and buy
[1:08:07] a burrito from one of our entrepreneurs
[1:08:09] who's who's cooking.
[1:08:10] And in the shared commercial kitchen there.
[1:08:14] But one of the biggest reasons is
[1:08:15] that we'll be able to keep the current community center in use.
[1:08:19] And our plan is to keep that in use.
[1:08:20] And as soon as we open up the doors of the new one,
[1:08:23] that's when we'll decommissioned the old one.
[1:08:26] I should remind you, that's still
[1:08:27] making it even more complicated.
[1:08:29] It's still subject to one of our original proffers
[1:08:33] for this was the county has the right to build
[1:08:35] a school on that Second site.
[1:08:37] And you have until the end of 2027
[1:08:40] to notify us whether you want to or not.
[1:08:43] If you're not going to build a school there,
[1:08:45] then we have an additional affordable housing requirement,
[1:08:47] which were or well well ahead of what our production for.
[1:08:53] So that shouldn't be a problem Understood
[1:08:57] I guess this is maybe now a question of for later
[1:09:00] if there is with that kind of a tacit request
[1:09:02] to extinguish that earlier than we're required.
[1:09:05] But I don't think we need to get into that for this.
[1:09:08] The other question I'd had was just
[1:09:10] scratching a little bit more on the current obligations
[1:09:14] under the relocation plan, versus what
[1:09:17] you or the relocate sSiOn data that is provided
[1:09:21] versus what there might be a public desire for.
[1:09:23] I know you i've heard your data before on, you know,
[1:09:27] 85 for 2% retention and the relocations that do exist
[1:09:32] are voluntary relocations I'm not clear
[1:09:35] if that is part of our current report required Ment's And I'd
[1:09:39] be curious if that would be something because because that
[1:09:42] is data that is held and that is data that you're
[1:09:44] transparent with on request.
[1:09:46] But you know Joe Public, I don't know,
[1:09:48] has the access to qualitative or quantitative information
[1:09:53] on the voluntary relocations.
[1:09:56] And I'm curious if there is either qualitative
[1:09:58] and quantitative data that could be either included or added
[1:10:01] to that is required reporting So we certainly will include that
[1:10:05] as part of the performance agreement obligation
[1:10:07] and conditions in terms of reporting
[1:10:10] and we'll be specific to ask for displacement and not
[1:10:13] just purchase or movement and to make sure that that's
[1:10:17] part of what we would be.
[1:10:18] De-identified data, of course, we heard from supervisor p
[1:10:22] so currently a specific interest to have
[1:10:24] that be included in that performance agreement
[1:10:27] and will that will be the case Thank you.
[1:10:30] And just for one final note, as that I say this
[1:10:35] and I'm trying to be responsive to concerns
[1:10:37] but I'm also, frankly, trying to position us,
[1:10:42] you and I as well as possible to be
[1:10:44] able to respond to political agreement right.
[1:10:48] So if someone says, oh, well, I hear from my students at school
[1:10:52] that there's consternation, I hear
[1:10:54] that some people feel they haven't been treated fairly
[1:10:56] It is helpful to be able to have that data in a place other
[1:11:01] than from your mouth and a place that we can reference back to
[1:11:06] on that issue.
[1:11:06] I think it's important to note that there is the promise of non
[1:11:10] displacement was made to the original inhabitants of South
[1:11:14] would when Habitat purchased the property
[1:11:17] and then Habitat has on several occasions
[1:11:20] expanded that group to include whoever
[1:11:22] is in the park at that moment.
[1:11:23] That's a process for the purposes of a 20 year
[1:11:26] redevelopment planning process can't continue forever
[1:11:30] The the sort of end of folks would be changing constantly
[1:11:34] and you wouldn't be able to make appropriate construction
[1:11:36] or financial planning around that number
[1:11:39] And so Habitat has expanded that group on several occasions.
[1:11:44] And there are people who have lived in the park
[1:11:46] since the purchase of the park who
[1:11:49] are not covered under this non displacement agreement.
[1:11:51] And so there are certainly community members, folks
[1:11:54] in schools other folks who hear that there's a promise
[1:11:57] that if you live in South, well, you can stay there forever.
[1:12:00] And that applies to a subset of folks there,
[1:12:03] a large subset of folks who have the longest standing commitment
[1:12:06] or engagement in that neighborhood.
[1:12:07] But there are folks who live in South Bend who
[1:12:09] are not included in this agreement around us,
[1:12:12] non displacement.
[1:12:13] And so people's real life experience
[1:12:15] s is counter to what they hear is the promise.
[1:12:18] And I think it's important for us
[1:12:19] to say the extra 3 or 4 sentences that helps
[1:12:22] explain why that's the case.
[1:12:23] And this would both things can be
[1:12:25] true in the case of that gentleman who's
[1:12:27] living on his grandmother's sofa but is not himself a homeowner
[1:12:31] But that is his maybe primary place of resident.
[1:12:33] He might not be embraced by that in the same way that No, no,
[1:12:37] it doesn't.
[1:12:38] He's included.
[1:12:39] It's because it's families.
[1:12:40] It's the folks When we had to say, okay, this.
[1:12:45] This is it, we now have a rezoning plan.
[1:12:47] We have a density amount of density.
[1:12:49] We have a pro forma.
[1:12:50] We can't we can't change the plant.
[1:12:52] We can't go back to the supervisors.
[1:12:54] Now and say, we need all multifamily housing.
[1:12:56] Now at that point in 2019 and we asked
[1:13:01] the residents of the resident council we said, should we
[1:13:03] continue if trailers come available for rent to allow
[1:13:07] people to move in given the dearth of affordable housing,
[1:13:12] or should we just shut the door full stop right now?
[1:13:14] And the residents said no, let people move in,
[1:13:16] but make it very, very clear Make them sign something
[1:13:19] when they move in that says that they
[1:13:21] recognize that when redevelopment happens
[1:13:24] they'll need to leave.
[1:13:24] And so we have all of those records and signatures
[1:13:27] So there is a small subset.
[1:13:29] It's not the it's not the person who's joined the family.
[1:13:32] It's a new family that moved in understanding
[1:13:36] that they could stay up until the time for redevelop
[1:13:39] and begins.
[1:13:40] And so it was their choice at that time,
[1:13:43] they still have tenant rates And so
[1:13:45] it's not like we can say tomorrow you have to move.
[1:13:47] There are still statutory tenants rights that they have.
[1:13:50] Once we start to lease to them.
[1:13:51] So most of them have, I think it's a nine month obligation.
[1:13:55] There are certain circumstances where we can accelerate that.
[1:13:58] If there's a health and safety issue.
[1:14:00] So something blows up next to there.
[1:14:02] And so it's normal unlawful detainers or non renewals
[1:14:06] for the lot themselves Right?
[1:14:09] And those folks also are entitled to housing support.
[1:14:12] We provide everybody Rehousing support We give them
[1:14:14] a long leave lead time, and we also have an appeals process.
[1:14:19] And so there are some families that have said,
[1:14:21] no, we were actually there before
[1:14:23] and there's an internal appeals process.
[1:14:25] Our board is the arbiter in that.
[1:14:27] And I think we've said yes to all.
[1:14:28] But then like five appeals, I think
[1:14:30] we've said yes all but one.
[1:14:32] They just have to show us anything,
[1:14:33] a picture, a newspaper, something
[1:14:36] and we'll open that door.
[1:14:38] We don't we want people to be able to stay I appreciate
[1:14:41] your patience for it.
[1:14:42] I appreciate your patience in for my questions.
[1:14:44] Thank you.
[1:14:45] Then i don't have any further questions or comments.
[1:14:48] Ready for I have what I need to take
[1:14:50] a vote is there any final comments or questions?
[1:14:53] All right.
[1:14:53] I'll look to the Scottsville supervisor for a motion.
[1:14:55] Oh, goodness Of course.
[1:14:57] Yes.
[1:14:57] I'd like to move to approve the resolution, including the board
[1:15:00] materials for this agenda item in attachment B. Second,
[1:15:04] is there any further discussion All right.
[1:15:06] If the clerk will please call the roll missile piece.
[1:15:08] So currently I miss Malik.
[1:15:10] Yes, Mr. Missal.
[1:15:11] Hi, Mr. Pruitt I miss Duncan.
[1:15:14] Yes, Mr. Galloway.
[1:15:16] Yes All right.
[1:15:17] Thank you.
[1:15:17] Board.
[1:15:18] Thank you.
[1:15:18] Can't thank you, Jacob.
[1:15:19] Thank you Okay.
[1:15:23] Board.
[1:15:24] We will move to item number ten Micro Cat Program update and fee
[1:15:29] discussion.
[1:15:30] Brian Davidson will be joining us to lead this.
[1:15:34] This one.
[1:15:35] And I see Mr. Bowman and Welcome Garland
[1:15:39] I see you hiding there in the back a little bit Yeah.
[1:15:49] Yeah So Yeah.
[1:16:04] Oh, okay Thank you.
[1:16:10] Good afternoon.
[1:16:11] Ryan Davidson, the deputy chief for budget.
[1:16:13] And I'm here this afternoon to discuss the micro cat
[1:16:15] program with you.
[1:16:17] Before we get started, I did want
[1:16:18] to acknowledge some other staff from the core MicroCap team who
[1:16:22] are here today in attendance Kevin McDermott and Tanya Swartz
[1:16:25] and driver from the Community Development department
[1:16:28] and Carla Williams from charlottesville,
[1:16:30] Area Transit captain.
[1:16:33] So for today's presentation is really
[1:16:35] going to be broken into two sections.
[1:16:37] First, it's going to start with a refresher on the background
[1:16:39] of the service and some data on some current service
[1:16:42] levels in the section is more for your information
[1:16:45] and to answer any general questions you may have about
[1:16:48] micro cat And then second, we're going
[1:16:50] to discuss the micro cat fares as a reminder to the board
[1:16:53] and to the public.
[1:16:54] The fY 27 adopted budget contained revenue from micro
[1:16:58] fares and after a discussion with the board at our March 11th
[1:17:01] work session, the board instructed staff to come back
[1:17:04] for feedback and approval prior to the implementation of these
[1:17:07] fares.
[1:17:08] Today, staff brought forth a recommendation
[1:17:09] around the structure for the micro cat fares for the board's
[1:17:12] consideration and approval After we go through the presentation
[1:17:16] to complete the presentation, staff
[1:17:17] will turn to the board for any general questions
[1:17:20] and for questions and discussion on the microphone at fares
[1:17:24] and ultimately an action of the board decision on the fare
[1:17:28] recommendation So we're going to start
[1:17:33] with a quick refresher on the background of the micro Cat
[1:17:35] service and some of the data on the current program
[1:17:37] Service levels in 2022, our Martin County conducted
[1:17:41] a transit expansion study.
[1:17:43] One of the main recommendations coming from this study
[1:17:45] was around the utilization of micro transit and more
[1:17:48] specifically for having that service in the pant hops and 29
[1:17:52] north corridors or zones of the county.
[1:17:54] At that time, it was estimated the county could
[1:17:56] see approximately 100 rides per day
[1:17:58] for the service Using this study and the information provided
[1:18:02] by the county through our partners at fcaT,
[1:18:05] applied for and was awarded a demonstration grant
[1:18:08] from the Department of Rail and Public Transportation.
[1:18:10] This grant originally was a two year grant,
[1:18:13] worth a total of about approximately 1.9 million,
[1:18:15] which included a county match of just under $390,000.
[1:18:21] So utilizing this grant funding the county,
[1:18:24] again through partnership with Cat,
[1:18:25] was able to procure and launch the micro cat services
[1:18:28] at the end of October 2023.
[1:18:29] And that's for the area shown in blue and red here
[1:18:32] on this diagram which are the 29 north main types areas.
[1:18:37] As you can see, the service runs monday through Saturday from
[1:18:40] 6:30 a.m. to 9:00 PM and microcephalic consists of eight
[1:18:44] hybrid minivans and I'm sure you've seen driving around town,
[1:18:46] I think we're showing the blue vans here.
[1:18:49] But the most recent ones I've seen driving around town
[1:18:51] are those black man's they have now.
[1:18:52] So they're updating the fleet as we
[1:18:54] as we move along in terms of current annual cost,
[1:18:59] the adopted budget for this service for fY 27
[1:19:01] was just over 1.4 million since October of 2023.
[1:19:08] And through the end of last month,
[1:19:09] Micro Cat has completed over 184,000 rides.
[1:19:14] As I mentioned earlier, this study
[1:19:15] anticipated approximately 100 rides per day.
[1:19:17] And as you can see, we are averaging almost double
[1:19:19] that amount in rides per day.
[1:19:22] Listed on the left hand side are the top 15 location
[1:19:26] of combined origin and destinations
[1:19:28] for the service in order of the most requested
[1:19:31] at the top of the list requested.
[1:19:34] Obviously, that's the top 15, so there's
[1:19:36] a lot more outside of this that are
[1:19:38] that we're going to the graphics on the right show you
[1:19:40] kind of a heat map within the zones of where the most
[1:19:43] popular spots for ride origination which
[1:19:45] is the blue side and on the left and ride destinations shown
[1:19:49] in the yellowish gold, you can see
[1:19:51] there's a mix from the charts and from the graphics.
[1:19:54] There's a mix of commercial and residential locations
[1:19:57] and there's a higher concentration
[1:19:58] of rides around the urban ring and the Harley meter area moving
[1:20:04] on, I want to speak for just a moment on service performance
[1:20:07] and the quality of the service.
[1:20:09] There are a couple highlights around these areas.
[1:20:11] I want to point out first is that we
[1:20:13] see less than point three complaints per day which
[1:20:17] when you look at the number of rides
[1:20:19] we have per day, that means on average micro cat
[1:20:21] is receiving less than one complaint per day
[1:20:23] on the service.
[1:20:25] I also wanted to point out the high amount
[1:20:27] of five star ratings 93%.
[1:20:29] But those that leave a review.
[1:20:30] So the service appears to be leaving a good impression
[1:20:33] on the riders.
[1:20:33] They use it.
[1:20:34] And finally, I wanted to point out some rider
[1:20:36] retention and engagement.
[1:20:37] 79% of the riders are repeat users of the service
[1:20:41] and with it.
[1:20:42] And those customers with an average of eight rides per month
[1:20:45] for the return users of that service as good as our biker
[1:20:51] cat services, there are limitations.
[1:20:53] The charts on the next couple of slides
[1:20:55] may not be the easiest to read, but I'll walk through them
[1:20:57] really quickly.
[1:20:58] Our contract an annual cost, is based upon 380 driver
[1:21:02] hours per year or excuse me, per week,
[1:21:05] which requires us to adjust the vehicle hours at various times
[1:21:07] to meet the demand On this first chart,
[1:21:10] the green portion of the bar is is showing the demand where
[1:21:13] completed rides are completed, requests
[1:21:16] for each month since the service started, the gray portion is
[1:21:19] representing that unmet demand amount As you can see,
[1:21:23] the amount of requests per month have grown larger
[1:21:25] as the MicroConf has been in place
[1:21:27] and based on our hours limitations
[1:21:29] that I mentioned before, that's resulting in a higher
[1:21:32] as the demand grows,
[1:21:33] we're starting to see a higher percentage of unmet demand
[1:21:37] But to put this chart in context of percentages,
[1:21:41] my cat's averaging around the mid-seventies in terms
[1:21:44] of percent of met demand per month
[1:21:50] So because we have more requests than rides
[1:21:52] for my work at vehicle hours and driver hours
[1:21:55] have to be adjusted throughout the day
[1:21:57] to try and make sure we have the most vehicles in service
[1:22:00] at our highest demand points So in this chart, the blue bar show
[1:22:04] a typical day.
[1:22:05] And how the demand has been for the services
[1:22:08] and the rise has been spread throughout the day
[1:22:10] as you can see, the highest demand
[1:22:11] is normally between the hours of 2 p.m. and 5 p.m.
[1:22:14] and the light blue line here shows how the driver hours are
[1:22:17] adjusted throughout the day to get more drivers and more
[1:22:19] drivers on the road at our peak demand times
[1:22:22] to try to meet that demand again.
[1:22:25] Even after my work at flex is hours
[1:22:27] to meet our peak demand periods we're
[1:22:28] still limited to the 70% range.
[1:22:30] And that demand which we will tie into the fares
[1:22:32] discussion, which is part of the second half of our conversation
[1:22:36] today.
[1:22:38] So going to transition into the fares at this point right
[1:22:44] So the background these fares are proposed to begin mid-year
[1:22:48] in fiscal year 27, and they're estimated to generate
[1:22:50] approximately $80,000 in revenue for this fiscal year
[1:22:54] And we're included as part of the FY 27 adopted budget
[1:22:57] and subsequent fiscal years, we could expect the annual revenue
[1:23:00] for fares to be approximately double the 2027 amount
[1:23:03] at approximately $160,000 per year.
[1:23:07] It should be noted that the intent of these fees
[1:23:09] is not to be a source of revenue to fully offset the cost
[1:23:12] but rather to help cover some of the cost.
[1:23:15] While incentivize users to utilize this service
[1:23:18] to supplement fixed rail, not instead as a replacement
[1:23:21] for fixed route fixed services.
[1:23:23] Still, the most efficient and cost effective
[1:23:25] means of public transportation The main reason that micro-cap
[1:23:29] and staff have not proposed fares prior to F1 27
[1:23:32] was that there was a condition as part
[1:23:34] of the original EIGRP to demonstration grant, which
[1:23:37] was that that was used to start the program,
[1:23:39] as you remember that the service was
[1:23:41] to remain free as a condition of this grant, as that
[1:23:44] was part of the application F y 27 is the first full year.
[1:23:48] That is not governed by the conditions of the grant.
[1:23:50] We have fully met all the conditions of the grant.
[1:23:52] The grant has since expired.
[1:23:53] It is now fully on the county's dollar.
[1:23:55] And so this is the first year we've
[1:23:56] been able to look at the potential of cost
[1:23:58] recovery for this.
[1:24:00] Staff also wanted to point out that the implementation
[1:24:04] of these fares is consistent with the county's
[1:24:07] adopted financial policies.
[1:24:08] I'm not going to read them word for word,
[1:24:10] but it's really consistent with both our revenue diversification
[1:24:13] policy and our user free policy with some
[1:24:16] of the main points highlighted on the slide
[1:24:18] here So in working with our provider
[1:24:23] and researching the types of fares and fare structures,
[1:24:25] there are many different types of fares and models
[1:24:28] for implementation.
[1:24:29] There's the flat fare models various discounted models
[1:24:32] and more trip specific models.
[1:24:34] Is that a fair model or structure has its pros and cons
[1:24:38] and not every type fare type or structure
[1:24:40] is appropriate for each locality or service based on the type
[1:24:43] and level of service provided.
[1:24:44] Each locality must pick the option or options that
[1:24:47] are best for their service in a minute,
[1:24:49] we'll look at what we are recommending
[1:24:51] the options for the micro-cap service in addition
[1:24:56] to the structure and type affairs being charged,
[1:24:58] each locality must determine the proper rate for its service
[1:25:01] and for those using its service.
[1:25:03] As highlighted in blue on the chart here the fare of $2
[1:25:07] is average when compared to the rates charged by micro transit
[1:25:11] services across the U.S. it's not the highest, not the lowest,
[1:25:13] but really on par as the average for what's typically
[1:25:16] being charged for public metro transit services of this type
[1:25:23] So when looking at microcap fares
[1:25:25] in terms of how more county staff are recommending
[1:25:28] to start with a simple fare structure that increases
[1:25:31] the revenues and has a potential to improve some service
[1:25:34] efficiency and using that principle as a framework,
[1:25:37] staff are recommended to use a combination of the three fare
[1:25:40] types that I've shown here on the screen.
[1:25:42] We'll go into a little more detail on each
[1:25:44] of these in the following slides and how
[1:25:46] that would work within the micro-cap fare structure Again
[1:25:51] using the framework of keeping it simple,
[1:25:53] trying to get some revenue to try to increase efficiency,
[1:25:56] we are proposing the structure to start with a flat base
[1:25:59] rate of $2 per ride for a single passenger
[1:26:02] and then a reduced fare of $1 for each additional passenger
[1:26:06] that's picked up at the same location
[1:26:08] to the same destination for that same ride.
[1:26:10] In addition to the discounted rates for shared trips,
[1:26:13] staff are proposing to have rate concessions
[1:26:14] for specific groups of riders.
[1:26:17] We will go into more detail on that in next slide.
[1:26:19] But we're really recommending those groups
[1:26:21] to receive a discount be seat inclusive years.
[1:26:24] Individuals with disabilities and low income households
[1:26:28] in terms of ridership impact staff
[1:26:30] is really projecting a slight dip in demand roughly 2 2
[1:26:34] 3% based on history and some other localities
[1:26:37] But given the unmet demand we discussed
[1:26:39] earlier in the presentation this would allow us to capture
[1:26:42] and complete more of those rides So overall, we're
[1:26:45] projecting no decrease in the number of rides that are being
[1:26:48] served per week And staff is recommending
[1:26:55] to provide the discounted rate for these certain groups.
[1:26:58] And again, the reduced fares being proposed
[1:27:00] to be half of the base rate.
[1:27:02] So $1 per ride.
[1:27:04] The first group eligible for the reduced fare
[1:27:07] would be, as I said, having multiple passengers
[1:27:09] for the same ride, same location pick up location,
[1:27:12] same origin, destination and booked
[1:27:14] through an original requester.
[1:27:17] Staff believes this structure will promote greater efficiency
[1:27:19] in the system by incentivizing more group rides as opposed
[1:27:23] to those single one off trips.
[1:27:24] Getting more people to ride together
[1:27:25] and putting more people in each trip.
[1:27:28] Next group recommended for fare would
[1:27:30] be seniors over the age of 65.
[1:27:33] we're looking App riders with disabilities
[1:27:35] that would affect their mobility and ability to get around.
[1:27:38] And finally, riders that would classify as low income.
[1:27:41] After speaking with staff from our Human Services Department
[1:27:45] it was determined that using the metric of 60% below 60% AMI
[1:27:49] would be the proper level to set that to be
[1:27:53] consistent with the definition.
[1:27:55] A classification of low income that we've
[1:27:56] been using for other programs throughout the county.
[1:28:00] These reduced reduced rate recommendations
[1:28:03] are the most common types.
[1:28:04] When you're looking at the public micro transit
[1:28:07] services of this type.
[1:28:08] When you look at other localities,
[1:28:11] there are many forms of verification.
[1:28:12] You may be asking, well, how do we verify this?
[1:28:14] There's many forms of verification
[1:28:15] for these types of groups that we
[1:28:17] could look into self-selecting in the app
[1:28:19] some simple form submission from outside of the app that's
[1:28:22] review into a more strict and formal verification
[1:28:26] processes that require more resources.
[1:28:28] Given the resources considerations,
[1:28:30] staff recommending that it be self-select out
[1:28:32] by the users of the service as part of their
[1:28:35] to update part of their user profile within the app.
[1:28:38] Considering the staff resources that would be needed
[1:28:40] and the cost of administration and verification
[1:28:42] other verification processes At this point,
[1:28:45] the self-selecting option seems appears
[1:28:47] to make the most sense to staff and we can always uses
[1:28:50] for 6 to 12 month period period affairs as a sort of pilot
[1:28:54] for this type of verification.
[1:28:56] And look at the data to see from that time period
[1:28:58] to see if we might need a more comprehensive review
[1:29:02] and see if there is a more comprehensive form
[1:29:03] of verification might be needed in the future.
[1:29:06] But looking at this as a pilot to keep it simple,
[1:29:09] keep it easy for this first time around is staff's recommendation
[1:29:18] So to summarize on the fares, staff are recommending
[1:29:22] the microcap start with a simple fare increase revenue
[1:29:25] potential for service efficiency based on our research,
[1:29:28] the $2 for ride.
[1:29:29] Flat fare will do just that.
[1:29:32] Some of the benefits of the recommended fare structure
[1:29:34] and verification process are the simplicity and ease
[1:29:37] of understanding for the microcap riders
[1:29:40] as it has a low cost of administration as compared
[1:29:42] to other robust services and verification processes.
[1:29:46] There's no additional contract costs charged by our provider
[1:29:50] via via excuse me to charge fees and there
[1:29:54] should be a very minimal third party collection
[1:29:56] for the collection is done through a third, third party
[1:29:58] service and that should be around 1% of the revenue
[1:30:02] collected.
[1:30:02] So very minimal fee for their administrative services
[1:30:05] on that side.
[1:30:07] Again we're not intending for these fares
[1:30:08] to fully pay for the service, but rather
[1:30:10] provide that balance between cost considerations
[1:30:13] versus community needs and specialize
[1:30:15] nature of this service.
[1:30:17] The fees meet the intent of two of the counties
[1:30:19] adopted financial policies that I mentioned earlier
[1:30:21] and these fees are the first step in building different rider
[1:30:24] habits to not use this as a substitute for fixed route,
[1:30:27] but rather as a supplement to fixed fares.
[1:30:30] Have than help have been shown to help with unmet demand.
[1:30:33] And they have been shown to increase
[1:30:36] the efficiency of individual rides But we're always sorry.
[1:30:44] Apologize.
[1:30:45] This is my final sign of content.
[1:30:47] Before I turn the discussion over to the board
[1:30:49] chair for questions, discussion and ultimately action
[1:30:51] on the recommended fare structure.
[1:30:53] If the board approves the fare structure recommendation,
[1:30:55] here are kind of the next steps.
[1:30:57] We're really looking at over the next couple of months.
[1:30:59] And until the fares are implemented
[1:31:01] staff would work with or with Cape
[1:31:03] and our partners at Cat and Via to begin the rider education
[1:31:06] process about the coming fares and to make sure riders
[1:31:09] are informed and prepared for this upcoming change.
[1:31:12] We would work with our provider to update the app
[1:31:14] and be ready to begin charging for and collecting
[1:31:17] the fees through the app that folks used to book their rides.
[1:31:21] And finally beginning January 1st,
[1:31:23] we would begin charging for these fees With that,
[1:31:30] I am now going to turn this over to the board chair for question
[1:31:32] discussions and after the discussion,
[1:31:34] if there are no changes, staff's recommendation is to adopt
[1:31:38] the resolution and Attachment A to set the micro-cap fees.
[1:31:42] Thank you.
[1:31:43] Thank you, Mr. Davison.
[1:31:44] Supervisor Malik thank you very much.
[1:31:46] And I appreciate the approach that you are generate.
[1:31:50] You have suggested here i think it's really important
[1:31:54] that there be accountability.
[1:31:56] I been concerned about just giving free taxi
[1:32:00] rides to everybody, especially people who are certainly
[1:32:03] able to contribute something.
[1:32:05] It's not $15, which is probably more
[1:32:07] of a standard Uber ride from the airport to the hospital.
[1:32:11] But I also really appreciate the benefits
[1:32:13] to these people who are able to get
[1:32:15] to work or get to the hospital I get the child to school.
[1:32:17] I mean, they're wonderful reasons to do this.
[1:32:20] So i look forward to your app update
[1:32:25] and the profile could then be verified because someone will
[1:32:29] have access to the profile.
[1:32:31] And that's how they would reserve
[1:32:33] and how they would pay everything else.
[1:32:35] So there's no cash delay that makes the drivers crazy, which
[1:32:39] is important I think an affidavit button
[1:32:43] or something like that in your app
[1:32:47] So people are warned ahead of time
[1:32:49] to be accurate is fair to the people paying the bill.
[1:32:54] The last question I had.
[1:32:55] So the budget for 27 for this current year into this program
[1:33:00] is million dollars or something, right?
[1:33:02] Yeah.
[1:33:03] 1.4 million.
[1:33:03] Just over 1.4 million.
[1:33:05] That's significant for sure.
[1:33:07] OK.
[1:33:07] Thank you very much.
[1:33:09] Supervisor Duncan originally i was really hesitant
[1:33:15] about fees and about Africa and General
[1:33:20] so I appreciate sort of throughout the year here
[1:33:23] help me understanding it.
[1:33:25] And I also really appreciate having
[1:33:28] sort of the rationale laid out in our packet
[1:33:33] and it makes sense to me, especially if you're
[1:33:36] trying to get people to do group rides and not just have Sing
[1:33:39] Along Rides So I actually think this is a great thing
[1:33:44] to try and see what happens.
[1:33:46] So I really appreciate how well laid out this was
[1:33:49] and having all of this kind of ready ahead of time.
[1:33:53] Thank you.
[1:33:53] You.
[1:33:55] Supervisor Pruitt Thank you.
[1:33:58] I appreciate it.
[1:34:01] This change, I think My concern to kind of pithily
[1:34:07] capture the various concerns I have about MicroCap generally
[1:34:10] is that it feels like a kind of curious nice
[1:34:14] to have like a fun thing we do and feels
[1:34:17] less part of an integral to transit system.
[1:34:20] And I feel like this is a step toward that I think
[1:34:24] we heard a lot of things just in this very short presentation
[1:34:26] that still point to how it is being treated as a weird
[1:34:29] nice to have that rather than part of our transit system
[1:34:32] right?
[1:34:32] Like if 1 in 4 times when I wait at the bus stop,
[1:34:35] the bus never shows up Yeah, that
[1:34:38] is a disastrous transit system.
[1:34:40] But that is the case with fire, right?
[1:34:42] Like the only time I tried to use via it was in the rain.
[1:34:45] I was commuting from my home on Avon Street to tiptop right
[1:34:52] And I didn't once I walked into the county across free bridge,
[1:34:57] I did not want to walk up in the rain pant ups. Hell,
[1:35:00] 15 minute walk back.
[1:35:01] It sucked And so I tried to help.
[1:35:04] And it just told me, no, nothing available.
[1:35:08] It didn't like give me a timeline.
[1:35:09] It didn't explain why nothing was available.
[1:35:11] And that's what people get.
[1:35:12] One fourth of the time, right?
[1:35:14] Like that is not a transit service.
[1:35:16] That's not a transit service.
[1:35:18] Something that I can't rely on for a recurring thing
[1:35:21] is not functioning And similarly,
[1:35:23] like a service that i can use in lieu of fixed route
[1:35:29] to bus all the way up the length of 29
[1:35:33] from my home in South pant hops, if I have one,
[1:35:37] would not be what we want, right?
[1:35:39] So it is there existing problems?
[1:35:42] I think this professional lives.
[1:35:44] Is it it maybe helps integrate it
[1:35:46] and it helps us treat it more like a serious tool, which
[1:35:50] I appreciate it.
[1:35:52] I, I do think the logic behind the income verification
[1:35:55] or rather non verification makes sense
[1:35:58] but I'm going to be intrigued by the program analysis
[1:36:01] on the back end of that, I might suggest
[1:36:04] that in if it is being abused in lieu of a income standard
[1:36:11] at really easy to verify standard
[1:36:14] would be is receiving county services right Right.
[1:36:18] That could be literally a checkbox from someone
[1:36:21] human services who it gets sent to.
[1:36:23] I don't know that anyone from Human Services
[1:36:25] is here to tell me, please don't do that.
[1:36:27] But since they're not here, I can assign them
[1:36:31] that future potential network I think that is all I have.
[1:36:37] But I will be I will be interested to see
[1:36:39] how we are able to continue reconfiguring and reimagining
[1:36:43] this service to make it not just a curious city and instead
[1:36:49] part of an integrated transit system.
[1:36:50] And I'm going to continue Garland
[1:36:53] I'm going to continue to be quite cynical and skeptical
[1:36:56] about this program.
[1:36:57] Every time it comes up until it feels more like a transit
[1:36:59] service supervisor.
[1:37:03] Miguel, thank you.
[1:37:04] Just one quick questions.
[1:37:06] The numbers 1.4 million you said was budgeted.
[1:37:09] Yes, sir.
[1:37:09] The income expected from this is 80,000 for a full fiscal year
[1:37:14] would be approximately 160,000 is what we're estimating
[1:37:17] on the conservative side.
[1:37:18] But since we're only doing six months for the current fiscal
[1:37:21] year, not starting till January to come, in the 80,000,
[1:37:24] we did not want to kick this off immediately after approval
[1:37:29] because as we talked with Mr. Williams and those advisor,
[1:37:34] the biggest piece of this is the driver education Like you've got
[1:37:37] to make sure you educate your users because if you all
[1:37:40] of a sudden spring it on them like, hey,
[1:37:42] we're just approved this we're charging that creates a lot more
[1:37:45] issues, complaints, calls to their service center.
[1:37:47] And so we want to make sure we're properly educating.
[1:37:49] So if people need to find other methods of transportation
[1:37:54] when this may not be feasible for them,
[1:37:56] they can begin making those preparations as well Thank you.
[1:38:01] And so this.
[1:38:02] I apologize if these are basic questions,
[1:38:04] but the grant is expiring or has expired.
[1:38:08] It expired.
[1:38:09] Did we look for other grant opportunities to fulfill that
[1:38:12] or to replace that I, I, I'm going
[1:38:16] to look to Mr. Williams for another shake his head.
[1:38:20] I don't believe we have this was AA1 time demonstrate
[1:38:23] and grant Yeah.
[1:38:24] And typically those are kind of a one time
[1:38:26] show us Yeah, we'll let you see if the program is
[1:38:29] working and works for your community
[1:38:31] and what you would want to do.
[1:38:32] And then once it runs out, a condition of,
[1:38:35] of the demonstration grant was you have to do a year of this
[1:38:38] without our grant money on your dime.
[1:38:40] OK.
[1:38:41] And then the grants are technically
[1:38:43] this is our second year of paying for just county.
[1:38:46] Yeah, but it was still under the conditions of the grant in FY 26
[1:38:48] because we still had to do that one year on our own.
[1:38:52] So there might be a potential opportunity
[1:38:53] to replace the fare with a grant in the future.
[1:38:57] We'll be actively look to do that.
[1:38:59] We we're always looking for those opportunities.
[1:39:02] I i'm not a transit expert.
[1:39:05] I don't know what's currently out there
[1:39:06] but I know we're always looking for those opportunities needs
[1:39:09] to be able to do that across our entire transportation network
[1:39:13] And that's I'm sure that's something we would be
[1:39:15] able to bring in front of part of
[1:39:16] as well as we start to look at system
[1:39:19] configuration in the future.
[1:39:21] OK.
[1:39:21] Thank you.
[1:39:22] And then the fair verification piece
[1:39:24] that was also a question I had.
[1:39:26] How do you you know, how do you identify riders
[1:39:30] with 60% AMI or less, etc.
[1:39:33] We've talked around that.
[1:39:34] I think, affidavit, but it's a great idea.
[1:39:36] I think some of the other ideas were good ones.
[1:39:37] I think it'd be important for us to continue
[1:39:40] to pursue that just to try to avoid any abuse of the system.
[1:39:45] Grants and then I maybe ask this question offline.
[1:39:50] That's okay.
[1:39:51] I'm good.
[1:39:51] That's it.
[1:39:52] Thank you for supervisor Mr. Gurley.
[1:39:56] You know I remember when this program started a few years ago
[1:39:59] for half of you were here and this is a great program.
[1:40:03] Frankly this is we've gone from 100 people riding
[1:40:08] a day to 180 riding a day.
[1:40:11] So those are people that we are helping
[1:40:14] to get to their location Yes, it was at no cost
[1:40:17] Now it's going to be at a very low cost.
[1:40:19] I think it's going to continue to be successful.
[1:40:23] I think we've we've met our goal as far as ridership
[1:40:28] and over, you know, we've doubled that and kudos to you
[1:40:34] all for that I like the fare structure.
[1:40:38] I think that's going to work.
[1:40:39] I was a first word before it was answered
[1:40:42] that it's not going to be cash.
[1:40:44] So otherwise, I thought, oh my gosh,
[1:40:47] you're going to be held up.
[1:40:48] But anyway, the drivers.
[1:40:50] So this is a good thing.
[1:40:52] And it's all incorporate too, with cat.
[1:40:54] So that's a good thing.
[1:40:55] Could you go to slide five?
[1:40:58] There's something that piqued my interest
[1:41:01] because it came up before that.
[1:41:04] Oh, yeah The top origins and Destiny ations.
[1:41:07] We had discussed this before, and that
[1:41:10] was at Memorial High School I am planning a campus.
[1:41:15] We discussed about students who are late taking micro cat
[1:41:19] or who are using it to get to the high school
[1:41:22] and not taking the school bus or walking or whatever.
[1:41:27] I'm just wondering if you how many are from how many
[1:41:32] go to Albemarle High School Because I
[1:41:35] think you had another another slide that shows you your if you
[1:41:41] needed additional driver time, which one was that Not one.
[1:41:46] Right.
[1:41:47] So you need a additional driver hours.
[1:41:49] I what I'm wondering what is the effect maybe
[1:41:52] I have a moral high school.
[1:41:53] The students maybe it has no effect on this,
[1:41:56] but I'd like to know, what is the effect How many students
[1:42:00] are doing this?
[1:42:00] Are they monopolizing the lot or not ?
[1:42:06] So I'll start by saying, when this question came up
[1:42:10] in the March work session as well, or coming out of that.
[1:42:14] And we looked into this.
[1:42:16] And what we saw was that typically
[1:42:18] in terms of times of the rides there was a big boost midday
[1:42:23] and kind of towards the end, kind of like afterschool type
[1:42:27] of things there.
[1:42:28] It wasn't as big of a number of riders
[1:42:32] at the beginning of the day as it might,
[1:42:33] as you were mentioning, students that were late for school
[1:42:35] were dropped off.
[1:42:36] There wasn't a big spike there.
[1:42:39] There was a little bit before school,
[1:42:41] which maybe would speak towards staff
[1:42:43] using that as a as the ability to get to and from.
[1:42:47] And so we looked at that.
[1:42:49] And we couldn't say, oh yeah, no, this is definitely
[1:42:51] just folks using it for coming in not wanting to ride the bus
[1:42:56] or they're definitely taking this
[1:42:58] to get home because they don't want to ride the yellow bus.
[1:43:01] The Times weren't the data didn't bear that out
[1:43:04] conclusively So that was kind of how we looked at that.
[1:43:08] And so we can get additional information just
[1:43:11] for that particular one.
[1:43:13] Appreciate it.
[1:43:13] Has fallen as low as we look at this list
[1:43:16] throughout various periods of time.
[1:43:18] It's fallen as low as number nine
[1:43:19] on that list, been as high as number three.
[1:43:21] It kind of the locations don't tend to change,
[1:43:24] but they're the frequency of these locations
[1:43:27] tends to move up and down on the list.
[1:43:30] OK.
[1:43:30] With that, that answers my question.
[1:43:32] And thank you.
[1:43:33] I mean, for looking at i don't want
[1:43:35] you to do any additional work with that.
[1:43:37] Sounds like you're already on top of it.
[1:43:39] And the you know, students using it and everything.
[1:43:43] So that's all the questions i have.
[1:43:46] Thank you.
[1:43:47] That was going to be my question.
[1:43:49] One of the things that is kind of common out there
[1:43:51] in the world relative to fares, fees, things like that
[1:43:54] is a student rate And I don't see a student rate here.
[1:43:58] You put the $1, you know, like that seems to me
[1:44:02] to be a something that both for seniors and for students
[1:44:06] that that's something that you could do.
[1:44:08] I mean, I think it's pretty clear that Albemarle
[1:44:10] and the students are using at 1600 as 4:00.
[1:44:12] That's right When 350 is when the bell rings.
[1:44:15] And that whole campus.
[1:44:16] So I don't know that I would be quick to say they just don't
[1:44:19] want to ride the school bus.
[1:44:20] Right.
[1:44:21] I would suggest somewhere and I wouldn't either.
[1:44:23] If it takes an hour to get home and I could get home
[1:44:25] in ten minutes, why the hell would I
[1:44:27] would I not take quicker cut?
[1:44:28] But the high school is more piece
[1:44:30] where the school bus runs right at the bell
[1:44:32] at the end of the day.
[1:44:33] But if you have an activity, you have
[1:44:34] to stay late to see a teacher You
[1:44:35] have to do anything like that.
[1:44:37] The service becomes an alternative way
[1:44:39] than to wait around for yet another bus or activity bus
[1:44:42] or something like that that may run later.
[1:44:46] So I think there's more to it than that.
[1:44:47] And frankly, don't care Love that the students are using it,
[1:44:50] frankly.
[1:44:51] That's fine with me.
[1:44:52] Garland you can always use me as the Prewitt synthesis
[1:44:55] and shield if he ever comes at you too hard,
[1:44:58] because I will continue to be a fan of this.
[1:45:00] And can counterpoint a lot of things
[1:45:03] But Rio district residents are using this as their transit
[1:45:06] service It's just happening And I always
[1:45:10] use the wood brook to Kroger.
[1:45:11] It's not that far They'll never be a fixed route that
[1:45:14] runs from Wood Brook to Kroger.
[1:45:16] And if there is one, it'll have to be circular and go around
[1:45:19] where the micropub it's always going to be the faster way
[1:45:22] and I don't want them walking across the aisle across 29.
[1:45:25] So happy to have that happen.
[1:45:28] I think the fee piece will be easily accepted
[1:45:31] because from the get go we did a good job of saying
[1:45:34] there will eventually be a fee.
[1:45:36] So every time I remind folks of that,
[1:45:38] it's not What are you talking about?
[1:45:41] It's Yeah okay, we understand.
[1:45:44] And that's, again just dealing with my districts,
[1:45:47] folks that I know who are using Micro Cat on a regular basis,
[1:45:50] I would like to know, though, because there's talk about
[1:45:53] fixed routes and micro cat could inform it
[1:45:56] because a lot of the places that Micro Cat is currently
[1:45:59] operating in just don't have fixed routes period right now.
[1:46:03] They could serve it and at some point
[1:46:06] when I don't expect this can be answered today.
[1:46:08] So this is like a foreshadowing the budget time At some point,
[1:46:13] we should have some data or information to theorize
[1:46:16] the cost of putting a fixed route in places in the county
[1:46:20] that don't currently have one or move it from 60 Minutes to 30
[1:46:24] or 30 to 15 minutes like I know some other stuff's happening
[1:46:27] versus the micro cat, so that the board could eventually
[1:46:31] go, well, which ones more cost efficient to go
[1:46:34] ahead and continue providing the micro cat
[1:46:36] or expand or get this fixed route in in conjunction
[1:46:39] with or just replace it with fixed round
[1:46:42] and via alluded to being able to do that kind of theorizing
[1:46:46] at one point.
[1:46:47] So I feel like we're far enough along that we
[1:46:50] should be able to have that level of discussion
[1:46:52] at budget time.
[1:46:53] So we can look at 1.4 million.
[1:46:54] We can look at the millions for the fixed routes
[1:46:57] and start to go, okay, how can we make improvements
[1:47:00] and what's the most cost effective way to do it?
[1:47:03] My guess is it'll be a combo pack, right?
[1:47:05] Of the micro cat and the fixed routes But so
[1:47:10] that's just a request for future budget type.
[1:47:13] This the lead time.
[1:47:17] I appreciate that.
[1:47:17] That was one of my questions.
[1:47:19] So the education plan is going to be important.
[1:47:22] And then do you own the profile for the app?
[1:47:25] I just I don't know.
[1:47:26] Do minors have to have their can they have their own profile
[1:47:30] or do adults have to set it up?
[1:47:32] So if I'm a 15 year old riding micro cat,
[1:47:35] do i have my 15 year old individual profile
[1:47:38] or does my parents set that up?
[1:47:41] I'm unsure.
[1:47:42] Mr. Williams, do you hear?
[1:47:43] And I don't really need to know that.
[1:47:46] But the thing that makes me concerned
[1:47:48] is if once we go to paid the 50 year old
[1:47:51] might not have the credit card or whatever
[1:47:53] is going to be asked to make the payment right.
[1:47:56] And we may want to just think about the logistics of that
[1:48:00] via probable plea has already dealt with this.
[1:48:03] So it may just be our report back kind of deal.
[1:48:06] How we'll handle that But I would definitely
[1:48:10] you know, for folks that are kids
[1:48:12] can drive their own cars at 16.
[1:48:14] So I would imagine anything below 16
[1:48:17] might be the threshold for something
[1:48:18] where okay, they might need some other type of profile,
[1:48:22] but the individual.
[1:48:23] I don't know if the drivers are checking.
[1:48:25] Does this look like, you know, when
[1:48:26] I get in Lyft, sometimes they're double
[1:48:28] checking to make I have to give them a code
[1:48:29] and do all these things to make sure I'm the rider
[1:48:32] And I would imagine VI is handled all that.
[1:48:35] And I only other thing I'd like to know
[1:48:37] is how you're getting from the airport to the hospital for 15
[1:48:40] bucks with local Uber or Lyft because right now I just looked
[1:48:43] at it.
[1:48:44] If I wanted to go home to railroad, it's 15 bucks
[1:48:46] and I don't often see it lower than $15.
[1:48:49] And this is down to do anything.
[1:48:51] Once or twice.
[1:48:52] Nine bucks is the cheapest I've seen it.
[1:48:55] Lyft generally is cheaper, it seems like, in our town
[1:48:58] than Uber.
[1:48:59] But that's a tangent or sidebar.
[1:49:01] Any other quick comments Just one thing to add.
[1:49:06] I think the benefit the after school activities kids getting
[1:49:09] to a job, if they have to wait for hours
[1:49:12] to get home they can never get to a job after school.
[1:49:14] And so on.
[1:49:15] That's if the grandparent or whatever isn't able to get them,
[1:49:18] as many grandparents have forever.
[1:49:21] That's really important use for this.
[1:49:23] I know we've received recent information from our county
[1:49:26] attorney about the board authority for oversight
[1:49:29] of budgets and school budgets being one of those.
[1:49:31] And if this is becoming a significant participation
[1:49:36] element in school transportation then they
[1:49:39] need to accommodate that.
[1:49:40] This is not something we should pay twice for and the i just am
[1:49:46] permanently scarred from the early 2000s,
[1:49:49] when it was $100 taxi ride for tourists from the airport
[1:49:53] to the army.
[1:49:54] Welcome to Albemarle.
[1:49:56] It was an awful.
[1:49:57] So I that regulation that's happened at the airport
[1:50:00] since then has helped with that somewhat.
[1:50:02] But this is all part of that same same stuff.
[1:50:07] So thank you.
[1:50:08] All right.
[1:50:09] Do we are we ready for motion?
[1:50:11] Who would like to make that motion?
[1:50:13] I'm just going to make a motion.
[1:50:14] Oh, sure I move that the board adopts the resolution
[1:50:21] to set the micro-cap fees Attachment a second.
[1:50:25] All right.
[1:50:26] The motion has been made and seconded.
[1:50:27] Without objection that the clerk will please call the roll
[1:50:30] Mr. Pizza.
[1:50:31] I miss Malik.
[1:50:32] Yes, Mr. Missal.
[1:50:33] All right, Mr. Pruitt.
[1:50:34] I miss Duncan Yes, Mr. Galloway.
[1:50:37] Yes.
[1:50:37] Very good.
[1:50:38] Thank you.
[1:50:39] Thank you both Thank you, Garland Yep.
[1:50:43] All right.
[1:50:43] Board will move to item number 11.
[1:50:45] And this is our work session on the 2027 draft
[1:50:48] Legislative priorities.
[1:50:50] We've got Mr. Herrick, Mr. Blunt and Ms..
[1:50:53] Kilroy i all with us today Yes Good afternoon And there you go.
[1:51:07] I need to take the training class again.
[1:51:09] I don't remember what we're supposed to do here.
[1:51:12] Emily Kilroy, director of economic development,
[1:51:14] joined by Andy Herrick and David Blunt
[1:51:16] for the second work session for your legislative priorities
[1:51:19] for the 2027 General Assembly legislative session Today,
[1:51:26] we'll go through some strategy updates for 2027.
[1:51:30] The draft documents that were part of your packet for today.
[1:51:33] And then the next steps taking us
[1:51:35] through the end of the calendar year and the 2027 strategy
[1:51:39] updates And this is the pie chart
[1:51:42] that we show at most of these work sessions and that talks
[1:51:45] about using the legislative program to focus
[1:51:48] on local albemarle specific items, leveraging in the region.
[1:51:53] The work that PVC does for regional items,
[1:51:55] and then leveraging Vigo and VML and others for statewide items
[1:52:00] to talk a little bit about some of the dynamics
[1:52:04] at play heading into 2027, I'm going
[1:52:07] to invite Mr. Blunt forward to talk more
[1:52:10] at a statewide level Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.
[1:52:16] Members of the board, David Blunt with t.J. PVC,
[1:52:19] this is my one slide today.
[1:52:22] So i'll be very brief.
[1:52:24] Just kind of a big picture look at the upcoming general Assembly
[1:52:26] session at the beginning of 2027.
[1:52:30] As you may recall the odd numbered years are short
[1:52:34] sessions which means 46 days rather than the long session
[1:52:37] of 60 days with that short session does come some
[1:52:41] limitation is on the legislators in terms of the number of bills
[1:52:44] that they can introduce and for this upcoming session that will
[1:52:49] be 15 bills that can be introduced that are to be pre
[1:52:53] filed pre filed means that legislation is introduced
[1:52:58] by the morning of the first day of the session to get those
[1:53:02] bills rolling The legislators have a deadline of November 30th
[1:53:05] of which to request a draft of their bills from the Division
[1:53:08] of Legislative Services and then, as you know,
[1:53:12] where I guess a little over two months
[1:53:14] since the general Assembly finally adopted a budget
[1:53:18] and it was enacted just a day before the end
[1:53:20] of the fiscal year.
[1:53:22] Yet three months from now Governor Bambinger will
[1:53:26] be presenting proposed changes she is recommending
[1:53:29] to the legislature for the biennial budget
[1:53:33] that's in place and that will occur on December 17.
[1:53:36] Legislators then have a shot at submitting their own budget
[1:53:40] amendments.
[1:53:41] They will do that in early January.
[1:53:43] And they have to be submitted right after the beginning
[1:53:46] of the session.
[1:53:47] And then just to wrap it up, just the general overarching
[1:53:50] timeline, first day of the session is the second Wednesday
[1:53:53] of January the 13th.
[1:53:55] We get to what's called the crossover period February 9th is
[1:53:59] the Tuesday at which all bills and their originating chamber
[1:54:04] have to have been acted upon the following day.
[1:54:07] The 10th is when those bills actually quote unquote cross
[1:54:10] over to be considered by the opposite chamber.
[1:54:13] And then if all goes well adjournment would be scheduled
[1:54:19] for February the 27th.
[1:54:20] It's scheduled for 24 the 27th of February.
[1:54:24] But it seems to be more routine in recent years
[1:54:28] that the session is extended.
[1:54:30] So there was probably some extent incentive
[1:54:32] to get out on time in 2027 because the November
[1:54:36] 20, 27 elections will be coming up very quickly after that.
[1:54:41] So thank you.
[1:54:42] Be glad to answer any questions at the appropriate time
[1:54:49] I see that Miss Kilroy is volunteering
[1:54:51] or I think she's volunteering to move the slides for me.
[1:54:54] I'm next to Andy here at County Attorney
[1:54:56] and so I'm going to be walking a board through the materials that
[1:54:59] are attached to your pAC agenda package today.
[1:55:04] If you go to the next slide.
[1:55:06] So as we go through, it seemed it just so
[1:55:08] happens that all of our materials begin with p.
[1:55:11] We've got a legislative program that
[1:55:13] has a priority and a print and some principles,
[1:55:16] as well as a separate document with position ins.
[1:55:19] And I just want to explain what the principles and positions
[1:55:22] where the principles are that sort of the guiding
[1:55:25] ideas behind the county's legislative approach.
[1:55:29] What we would like for the legislators
[1:55:32] to remember as we go about the general Assembly session,
[1:55:36] the positions go more in depth.
[1:55:38] And so they're in sort of a separate separate document
[1:55:42] that we consider sort of an NXT the ledger,
[1:55:44] to the main legislative program that we
[1:55:46] have with the legislative program
[1:55:48] being Attachment A and the legislative positions
[1:55:51] or at least the draft versions of those being attached.
[1:55:53] And B, if you go to the next slide
[1:55:55] and so you can see here that the legislator two program consists
[1:55:58] of a legislative prior Te as well as legislative principles
[1:56:01] Next slide, please And the legislative priorities
[1:56:04] as we discussed at the initial session on this
[1:56:07] when we went into the 2026 General Assembly session,
[1:56:10] the county had four legislative priorities
[1:56:14] and we were very pleased to report that three of those
[1:56:17] had been adopted by the 2026 Assembly
[1:56:19] with the one out standing,
[1:56:20] one being the ability to use or expanded ability
[1:56:24] to use the photo speed monitoring devices
[1:56:28] The board gave us clear feedback at the prior work
[1:56:31] session that the board wanted us to continue with that
[1:56:35] as a priority So that has been retained as the county's
[1:56:39] legislative priority.
[1:56:40] In our first draft legislative program Next slide, please.
[1:56:44] And in addition, we have a list of Eight pro principles listed.
[1:56:49] Again, these are sort of the high, high level guiding concept
[1:56:56] that we have behind the legislative program
[1:56:59] dealing with economic development, growth management,
[1:57:01] environmental protection and land use, health
[1:57:03] and human services, housing local government finance
[1:57:07] public safety, solid waste and transport tation.
[1:57:10] Again, each of these has very high level ideas and concepts
[1:57:14] that we can pass along to legislators as they're
[1:57:17] considering various bills in the upcoming session Next slide.
[1:57:20] And then we go on to the legislative positions document.
[1:57:24] And again, this is more detailed We had scoped it down from,
[1:57:29] I believe 48 or 49 two years ago to 28 last year down to 26
[1:57:35] this year.
[1:57:35] We were able to address some broadband issues
[1:57:38] during the past year.
[1:57:40] And there are some broadband Internet access
[1:57:43] issues that remain this year as well as more detailed statements
[1:57:48] about economic development growth management, health
[1:57:51] and human services, housing, local government administration
[1:57:55] and finance and public safety.
[1:57:57] So you'll see some correlate action
[1:57:58] between these legislative positions
[1:58:00] and the legislative principles with these position positions
[1:58:04] being more in depth statement by next slide.
[1:58:09] So there were several proposals at the work session
[1:58:11] Supervisor Pruitt specifically made several requests regarding
[1:58:15] taxing authority bond authority, and I
[1:58:18] wanted to address why some of those
[1:58:20] had made it into our legislative positions.
[1:58:23] Documents and others had not.
[1:58:25] There is a suggestion in that counties have the same bond
[1:58:29] issuance be able to issue general obligation
[1:58:32] bonds without a referendum That is a power that
[1:58:36] counties currently have If they make a one time election to get
[1:58:40] the same authority as city asset in issuing
[1:58:44] that transitional authority would
[1:58:46] itself require a referendum.
[1:58:48] So in other words if the county were to go to county residents
[1:58:51] and ask for the authority to be treated as a city,
[1:58:55] the county could then issue general obligation bonds
[1:58:58] going forward without needing subsequent referenda If we were
[1:59:03] to seek for that, for counties statewide
[1:59:05] to have that authority would require
[1:59:07] a constitutional amendment.
[1:59:08] Not saying it can't be done.
[1:59:10] But that would be a heavier lift than than the county typically
[1:59:13] advocates for, at least as a matter of first impression
[1:59:16] in its legislative program.
[1:59:18] Another suggestion was that we look
[1:59:19] at decoupling machinery and tools, tax and personal property
[1:59:23] tax rates again, this is an idea where the current setup is
[1:59:27] that localities can have different rates for machinery
[1:59:31] and tools and for personal property tax,
[1:59:33] but the machinery and tools rate has to be lower.
[1:59:36] So this wouldn't require a constitutional amendment
[1:59:38] It would be sort of a new concept for state legislators
[1:59:41] that they probably haven't been introduced to previously.
[1:59:45] Again, not saying it can't be done,
[1:59:46] but it's typically not something that's
[1:59:48] undertaken as a matter of first impression in our
[1:59:51] in our legislative program, at least without further board
[1:59:53] discussion One item that we have incorporated in this draft
[1:59:59] legislative position is out of state vehicle tagging
[2:00:02] and that's especially relevant given the number of out of state
[2:00:06] students that are present in the county
[2:00:09] It is possible to seek that authority.
[2:00:13] Currently state law exempts vehicles
[2:00:17] that even though they may be regularly garage parked
[2:00:20] or stored in Albemarle County if they have out-of-state tags
[2:00:24] they are typically not taxed in Virginia.
[2:00:27] That could be changed at the state level
[2:00:29] we would need to avoid double taxation.
[2:00:31] We need to have we need to avoid a situation where somebody we're
[2:00:35] paying taxes in another state on a vehicle.
[2:00:38] And then also being subjected to the same taxes.
[2:00:41] In Virginia.
[2:00:42] It's possible, though, that the General Assembly
[2:00:44] could pass some sort of law giving folks a credit on taxes
[2:00:47] paid to other states.
[2:00:49] And then go ahead and tax them in Virginia for the difference.
[2:00:52] Anyway, something to consider And I know that in prior years,
[2:00:56] we've asked the General Assembly to study or cancel
[2:00:58] siddur certain ideas and so that's
[2:01:00] how staff is proposing that we put this
[2:01:03] as a position and the current legislative program
[2:01:05] asking the General Assembly to take a look at this
[2:01:08] at the possibility of taxing vehicles that are locally
[2:01:11] a garage parked or stored.
[2:01:13] But giving them a credit on taxes that they may
[2:01:15] have paid to other states Just as saying for the assembly
[2:01:18] to take a look at.
[2:01:19] So that's my part of the presentation.
[2:01:21] I'll turn it back over to Ms..
[2:01:23] Ms..
[2:01:23] Kilroy to continue State transportation funding
[2:01:28] has been important conversation that this board has brought
[2:01:32] forward that other local.
[2:01:34] These through the Virginia Association of Counties
[2:01:36] that may go.
[2:01:39] It's hard at the Virginia Association of Counties.
[2:01:42] It may go other localities across the Commonwealth
[2:01:45] have brought forward concerns about the level of state
[2:01:47] transportation funding that's available for local priorities
[2:01:52] I was able to attend a session put on by the Virginia Economic
[2:01:56] Developers Association, a couple of weeks ago,
[2:01:58] and they had several members of the governor's cabinet sharing
[2:02:03] information about what they were looking at,
[2:02:05] including the Secretary of Transportation.
[2:02:08] And so I perked up very hard when
[2:02:12] he began walking through the challenge
[2:02:15] that his secretary is facing understanding exactly
[2:02:19] as as you all have articulated over the years,
[2:02:22] that there is just not enough funding
[2:02:24] to go around for all of the local priorities that
[2:02:27] are occurring.
[2:02:28] And he did take a couple of minutes
[2:02:30] to share all of the things that the Commonwealth is,
[2:02:34] is taking on right now.
[2:02:36] There are a number of very large projects happening
[2:02:38] in different parts of the Commonwealth none focused
[2:02:41] here but in the 81 corridor, enhancements that
[2:02:45] were done to the Port of Virginia, the hampton Roads
[2:02:49] Bridge Tunnel Project, work on the in the Beltway area,
[2:02:55] passenger Amtrak rail improvements that
[2:02:58] are part of transportation funding
[2:03:00] have all or all projects that are underway or will get
[2:03:03] underway shortly And our massive transport nation projects
[2:03:07] for the Commonwealth And so that is having the impact of tying up
[2:03:12] a lot of construction dollars that that otherwise
[2:03:15] could be prioritized elsewhere in the Commonwealth.
[2:03:19] He also took a moment to talk about how
[2:03:21] the vitality statistics statewide continue
[2:03:24] to go in the wrong direction.
[2:03:26] So 2014 was the last downward trend
[2:03:29] year for transportation fatalities in the Commonwealth
[2:03:32] and since then they've risen every year
[2:03:35] and that is a deep concern for them.
[2:03:37] And so safety continues to be a big priority for them
[2:03:40] But he was sharing some data around the knee
[2:03:45] to the need for additional funds to be able to even tackle
[2:03:49] the maintenance obligations that Virginia
[2:03:51] Department of Transportation has before you even then get
[2:03:55] into new construction projects.
[2:03:57] So One of the things that he wanted us to walk away with,
[2:04:02] what did not feel like a good news presentation,
[2:04:05] was that this is something that the Commonwealth transportation
[2:04:08] Board is focusing their work plan this year on talking
[2:04:12] about and trying to address They have had a couple of meetings
[2:04:15] already and will continue to sort of work
[2:04:17] through different scenarios For right now, that
[2:04:21] has a way that they program maintenance dollars
[2:04:24] and then construction dollars afterwards.
[2:04:26] Looking at what are the assumptions that
[2:04:29] go into how that those decisions are made,
[2:04:31] Does that need to be revisited and/or are there new funds
[2:04:36] necessary And how do you go about getting those?
[2:04:39] And so he encouraged everyone who
[2:04:41] has a concern in this area to engage with their Commonwealth
[2:04:44] transportation and board representative.
[2:04:46] There's a new representative for the Culpeper district
[2:04:49] that was appointed in June.
[2:04:52] And so that is one follow up that we
[2:04:54] wanted to put before the board today is
[2:04:56] that's that's a step that we could
[2:04:57] take to continue to raise this issue with the General Assembly.
[2:05:02] But also with our Commonwealth transportation board
[2:05:04] representative, vertical before district.
[2:05:07] And that's something that we've not done formally in the past,
[2:05:10] but we certainly are happy to to do in partnership
[2:05:12] with the board, if so desired The final slide that we have
[2:05:18] on this portion of the slide deck is just on part of we
[2:05:22] spoke last time about how the Charlottesville Albemarle
[2:05:26] regional Trans Transportation Authority has it
[2:05:33] was created with authority That was provided
[2:05:35] by the general Assembly.
[2:05:37] So several years ago, it was established
[2:05:40] in 2025 and sort of following the regional transportation
[2:05:44] partnership effort that preceded it.
[2:05:46] And they are currently working through an implementation
[2:05:51] strategy to follow that vision plan works
[2:05:54] that had been completed and they are continuing
[2:05:56] to sort of work through what are the right prioritized scenarios
[2:05:59] the cost estimates that go with those and refining that list.
[2:06:04] Again, stakeholder input that they're
[2:06:06] that they've been seeking.
[2:06:08] And so last work session on this topic, we talked about them.
[2:06:14] It may this year may not be the year
[2:06:15] for a formal legislative priority ask
[2:06:18] but that we know that the first year that you
[2:06:19] ask for something you're doing a lot of familiarization
[2:06:23] and awareness building and so this year may be a good year
[2:06:26] to get a head start on that familiar familiarization
[2:06:29] and awareness with the local delegates.
[2:06:32] And as we as we continue to sort of follow with the work
[2:06:36] that Carter is doing directly on what could
[2:06:39] be an ask in a future year.
[2:06:41] And so that is just sort of outlining
[2:06:43] the approach of sort of setting that baseline
[2:06:46] with the local delegation.
[2:06:47] This year, again, in anticipation
[2:06:49] that a formal request would be coming when timely I'll
[2:06:57] hit the next steps and then open it up for discussion if that
[2:07:00] pleases the board.
[2:07:01] OK So our final work session on legislative priorities
[2:07:06] is scheduled for your October 21 meeting
[2:07:08] and the hope there would be that you all would be in a position
[2:07:11] to adopt the positions and policy statements at that time
[2:07:16] and that we could then sort of peel off and set up meetings
[2:07:19] with legislators for that late October, early November time
[2:07:22] frame in order to meet the pre filing deadline
[2:07:26] that they have for introducing bills and that we would
[2:07:31] depending on how when we can schedule the legislative forum
[2:07:33] session,
[2:07:34] we would work through if there's some pre
[2:07:37] meeting with the local delegates individually ahead
[2:07:40] of that to ensure that we don't miss
[2:07:43] important times in their process And so the meeting
[2:07:47] with legislators is a time where we staff and the board
[2:07:51] together present legislative priorities.
[2:07:54] Time for you all to share concerns and information
[2:07:56] on transportation and statewide.
[2:07:58] And as progress and also time for the legislators
[2:08:01] to share some of their priorities heading into session.
[2:08:04] That is all of the slides that we have,
[2:08:06] but happy to hear you're also feedback.
[2:08:08] All right.
[2:08:09] We've got a lot.
[2:08:10] We've had some conversations.
[2:08:11] Supervisor malik, I guess I'll just It's all you can eat.
[2:08:14] Yeah And then we'll go along So thank you very much.
[2:08:19] I'll just right off the top, the format of 11 a I really
[2:08:23] like that and hopefully we could put that
[2:08:25] on a hard palm card vertical way more of bigger
[2:08:29] print than the little tiny business card size thing.
[2:08:32] And Phil North can't get away with being the only one around
[2:08:35] in the General Assembly.
[2:08:36] Man.
[2:08:36] So those things out there are fabulous.
[2:08:38] So that was great.
[2:08:39] Now let me jump back to the top of my list here.
[2:08:43] What was remove on broadband?
[2:08:46] I believe it had to do with the Albemarle specific provisions
[2:08:49] about deploying broadband Now, Monroe County, I
[2:08:52] think we took a look at that and saw that basically that had been
[2:08:55] something where essentially the mission had been accomplished
[2:08:58] during the past year except of a thousand
[2:09:01] people in the northwest part of the county.
[2:09:03] And we are under absolute deluge with SEC and FCC
[2:09:07] and having to fight this battle ourselves.
[2:09:09] And so it would be really nice not to just say the battle
[2:09:12] is over from the county perspective.
[2:09:14] So I'll throw that back out there for somebody else
[2:09:17] to think about, because this has been going on for years.
[2:09:20] And it's getting worse and worse every day.
[2:09:23] Every time it rains, nobody can call the ambulance,
[2:09:25] for crying out loud.
[2:09:27] So that that is really a big problem
[2:09:29] And I've raised that multiple times when
[2:09:31] there have been the citations the resolution
[2:09:34] we did that, people need to be aware that we're not done.
[2:09:38] Now Yeah, the okay with the double text
[2:09:46] version of the vehicles.
[2:09:47] I thought there was already a law that required three months.
[2:09:50] Was the only window you got before you
[2:09:53] were required If you're living here
[2:09:54] to register your car in Virginia and Massachusetts,
[2:09:58] where I my children went to school in Vermont, they do this.
[2:10:01] So I don't know why we can enforce that somehow.
[2:10:03] The site is laws are very complicated,
[2:10:05] but but basically, Virginia does not
[2:10:08] tax if you're domiciled in another state
[2:10:10] and show that you have paid taxes
[2:10:13] to another state you are currently exempt outright
[2:10:15] from Virginia.
[2:10:16] Personal property taxes What we're asking the General
[2:10:19] Assembly to study is to make that a credit rather
[2:10:22] than an outright tax exemption In Virginia,
[2:10:24] if I may out of state domiciliary renting here.
[2:10:28] And they're here as students or renting an apartment,
[2:10:30] they're here.
[2:10:31] They're voting here.
[2:10:32] They're not domiciled here under the law.
[2:10:34] They're domiciled in their home.
[2:10:35] Even if they're voting here.
[2:10:37] The same applies to military personnel and corporate persons.
[2:10:40] So fleet vehicles, which is also a scam because people
[2:10:44] don't vote.
[2:10:45] All those hundreds of job trucks and stuff that run around
[2:10:51] and they're registered there some guys.
[2:10:54] That's why.
[2:10:55] And then they don't pay the commercial rates.
[2:10:58] I mean, the whole thing is a big can of worms.
[2:11:01] So I'm really sorry that we're still
[2:11:03] allowing ourselves to be trampled on
[2:11:05] with that can't do anything about that amendment
[2:11:07] of the transportation things.
[2:11:09] Are you going to bring up your things separately?
[2:11:11] OK.
[2:11:12] Well, I very much will support that.
[2:11:14] But our new CTB member, Jim Roy, we
[2:11:17] had a great conversation a few weeks ago.
[2:11:20] I gave him my bill's moment as what
[2:11:22] is needed here because in 86, 40 years ago, our governor
[2:11:28] at the time 5 billion, $5 billion over 12 years
[2:11:32] was what those taxes raise.
[2:11:33] And it is time for the general Assembly to do that again.
[2:11:36] And the governor to do that again.
[2:11:38] And I hope we will tell her.
[2:11:40] But he, Jim Malloy, explained everyone that he very much wants
[2:11:43] to be in touch with local board members individually
[2:11:46] or group as fine, often quarterly at least,
[2:11:50] and wants to know what we need.
[2:11:53] So he can do his best job to represent our needs.
[2:11:56] When it gets down to the push and shove it at the CTB
[2:12:00] But he described in detail the lack of maintenance dollars
[2:12:03] because maintenance costs have escalated so greatly
[2:12:06] that just like in 2009, during the recession,
[2:12:09] it just ate up all the construction money
[2:12:11] So just like RCMP having to pay for the courts
[2:12:14] in the schools and all this other stuff,
[2:12:16] all these hampton Roads Tunnel and the Wilson Bridge and all
[2:12:19] these other things are still on the V IP
[2:12:22] and that's eating up their ability
[2:12:24] to do anything I'm very concerned about the timetable
[2:12:31] because every year for the last 15 years,
[2:12:33] our legislators have said October is too late
[2:12:37] So I would say we need to have this absolute delay as fast
[2:12:40] as possible because there already
[2:12:43] making a list of their 15 bills by August or July or whatever.
[2:12:47] So others have been contacting them regularly
[2:12:50] and we are missing our window.
[2:12:52] If we wait until November to say anything
[2:12:54] and they've told this to our faces over and over
[2:12:56] again about that So I hope that we'll figure out
[2:13:00] a way to have if we can get somebody
[2:13:02] on a Tuesday and somebody out Thursday,
[2:13:04] and we'll just have special meetings to go meet with them.
[2:13:07] I mean, I hope that we'll get there.
[2:13:09] This year in the sort of more.
[2:13:14] That's the local stuff.
[2:13:15] Now for the statewide things, a lot of these
[2:13:18] would go probably tobacco and others.
[2:13:22] But I think it's important.
[2:13:23] I mean, I will have raised them in the past as an individual,
[2:13:27] just have concerns with local delegates.
[2:13:29] And I think it's important that they know the
[2:13:34] and I'll just mention them now, just so others know as well,
[2:13:37] the need for updated best management practices in forestry
[2:13:41] in Virginia Potato right when she
[2:13:44] was secretary of forestry years and years ago
[2:13:45] said they were working on it.
[2:13:47] But nothing's been changed since 1986
[2:13:49] and it's totally had no correlation to the way
[2:13:52] forestry is practice today.
[2:13:55] So in the old days people, they took the logs,
[2:13:58] they left the slash, the branches and all that stuff
[2:14:00] laying down on the property, which provided some erosion
[2:14:02] protection.
[2:14:04] And now they ship all that stuff into teeny weeny pellets
[2:14:07] for people Seattle stoves and export it to Europe and stuff
[2:14:10] like that, which means you have acres of land
[2:14:13] often on very steep slopes completely naked.
[2:14:18] When these rains that are coming through.
[2:14:20] So I will just use the Dalles River in Whitehall
[2:14:23] as the example, which has been one of our very best water
[2:14:27] quality for 30 years, comes out Headwaters are up
[2:14:30] in the Shenandoah National Park, but a improperly put
[2:14:34] in and totally unapproved lumber access road vertical straight up
[2:14:41] the hill 40% grade and now there's mobs of sediment
[2:14:45] just floating down the Dallas River
[2:14:47] and going to go into the Mormons and into the South work.
[2:14:49] And this is sort of a terrible example
[2:14:52] of how we've lost in the first ten years of the south Fork
[2:14:57] Reservoir.
[2:14:57] We lost 40% of our capacity due to sedimentation
[2:15:00] So this is on the state docket, but it's something
[2:15:04] that i hope we will continue to think about
[2:15:06] as we deal with these things.
[2:15:08] Anything we can on the local level,
[2:15:10] it's a real burden for our local zoning people.
[2:15:12] They have to run out there with the state forest, the county
[2:15:14] forester and try to get these things under control
[2:15:17] But after the fact.
[2:15:18] It's almost impossible Planning District Commission, Solid Waste
[2:15:22] Management plan was in your packet for somewhere today,
[2:15:28] I guess the and this is from the Swac committee.
[2:15:33] One real difficulty is we don't have
[2:15:35] adequate records, registration of our private haulers
[2:15:38] nor do we have authority.
[2:15:40] I guess, to make them report.
[2:15:44] And so this is an Andy question.
[2:15:46] Do we have authority to require this?
[2:15:48] And we just haven't done it?
[2:15:50] I'd need to look into that.
[2:15:51] I understand.
[2:15:52] To offer a future.
[2:15:53] These people are not paying county taxes
[2:15:54] for doing business in the county,
[2:15:56] and they're not providing data to the PVC
[2:15:58] to be able to then meet the state obligation for.
[2:16:02] I mean, our reports have been woefully inadequate for decades
[2:16:04] because we have this run amok situation
[2:16:08] with the private haulers.
[2:16:10] A few, including the little guys,
[2:16:12] you know, out in the country Our register read and do report.
[2:16:16] And I'm very grateful Thank you very much for that.
[2:16:19] Including the bottle bill thing in the environmental thing.
[2:16:22] I really appreciate that.
[2:16:24] And I've sent it on to the swag committee
[2:16:27] so they will know that that is in there.
[2:16:29] And that's something that's also on the agenda for discussion
[2:16:33] for the Yellow Committee And they go in November
[2:16:36] and hopefully we'll be able to get some other counties
[2:16:38] interested in going backwards to the 50s where when we had all
[2:16:42] those things which were really great.
[2:16:44] And i will stop there.
[2:16:52] Thank you very much Thank you.
[2:16:54] Supervisor Duncan Oh, and I'm sorry.
[2:17:00] So before as you go around.
[2:17:02] And if there are other topics that supervisors
[2:17:04] speak to just offer that you don't have
[2:17:08] any objection to anything you've heard
[2:17:09] from anyone else that will help as kind of keep track of where
[2:17:12] we're going relative to.
[2:17:13] So we don't have to talk about every single thing,
[2:17:15] just if you object to something that bring that up.
[2:17:18] Sorry, go ahead.
[2:17:19] Is then is the no objection period We need to say not.
[2:17:22] No, I'm not.
[2:17:23] Just just talk If you object to something
[2:17:25] you heard ahead of you, then at the end, we can all go.
[2:17:28] Must be consensus because nobody object.
[2:17:31] I was this is my first time for this.
[2:17:33] And so i'm sort of learning just kind of coming at it.
[2:17:40] You know, with the super, it just
[2:17:42] seems I don't know if this is normal or not,
[2:17:44] but it assumes interesting to have a list of 26 positions
[2:17:48] when they can only offer up 15 bills.
[2:17:50] And so it just feels like a lot.
[2:17:52] And I mean, obviously there's a lot of things we care about.
[2:17:55] I'm just sort of curious if that's
[2:17:57] standard practice for counties to have such a long list
[2:17:59] or if it's better to make it shorter
[2:18:02] And then just my other opposite reason for reading through these
[2:18:06] is a lot of these make me feel like Oliver Twist.
[2:18:09] Please sir, can I have some more authority And there
[2:18:13] a simple solution to a lot of these requests.
[2:18:16] Yeah.
[2:18:17] And convince them of that.
[2:18:18] It's like i am probably going to North Carolina
[2:18:21] and we'll be paying attention to both of.
[2:18:24] The thing I would add about having that many physicians
[2:18:27] because we try to bring up certain things relative
[2:18:31] to bills, but what the legislators will often do
[2:18:35] is like, let's say Senator Deeds is here
[2:18:37] and he sees one of our 26 items and he'll say, you know what?
[2:18:41] There's some momentum coming out of wherever.
[2:18:44] And then he can track that.
[2:18:46] That's important to us, too.
[2:18:48] He doesn't necessarily have to expend One of his slots,
[2:18:51] but compile on the support over there if he knows it's there.
[2:18:55] So to not have it kind of limits you
[2:18:57] in that kind of wheeling and dealing.
[2:18:59] I guess that happens.
[2:19:00] But point taken Yeah.
[2:19:03] And I'll just add from his Duncan's benefit, the it.
[2:19:08] We don't always know until set until all the Bills have
[2:19:11] been published.
[2:19:12] We don't always know what all the topics that'll
[2:19:14] be before the General Assembly are.
[2:19:17] And so staff uses the that section
[2:19:20] that positions and policy statements work too.
[2:19:23] If we get a call of well, how does Albemarle
[2:19:25] feel about this will look there to say well actually okay
[2:19:29] we think we do see where the position would be on that.
[2:19:32] And sometimes the answer is we're still not sure.
[2:19:34] And we have to make some phone calls Supervisor Pruitt,
[2:19:38] I would further add to the conversation that's already
[2:19:41] going the very pithy way I think of it
[2:19:43] is the legislative program is telling them what to file
[2:19:46] and the legislative positions.
[2:19:48] It's telling them how to vote on things that other people
[2:19:50] file, which is mostly true or not perfect, but mostly i
[2:19:58] want to begin by concurring with Supervisor Mallex position
[2:20:05] that our timetable is and I know it's challenging,
[2:20:08] I know there's budget, but it's woefully inadequate.
[2:20:10] We need to begin this process basically the moment
[2:20:13] we have a legislative debrief from previous session,
[2:20:16] I met with Senator Deeds Friday and he had just
[2:20:21] come from a meeting of the legislative positions.
[2:20:25] I work session with the city.
[2:20:27] And he told them i have already the early bird filing
[2:20:31] deadline has already passed and I am almost at capacity.
[2:20:34] So a lot of this is not feasible that was last week so
[2:20:40] that it does these deadlines come up quick
[2:20:45] and by November, people already have their bills
[2:20:49] late almost entirely And there's not much flexibility.
[2:20:52] And we're really kind of playing with stragglers
[2:20:55] or if someone wants to trade a bill that they're already
[2:20:57] bringing to their friend who is going
[2:20:59] to co patron it because they have some opening
[2:21:03] So I would say that's a very urgent.
[2:21:06] I will I want to talk about specifically
[2:21:11] because our policy positions i think are pretty fixed
[2:21:14] and don't move that much year to year.
[2:21:16] So I'm going to specifically and exclusively talk
[2:21:19] about the legislative program, the things we want to file,
[2:21:21] rather than the things we're telling people
[2:21:23] how to vote yes on I would request to the board
[2:21:29] and suggest that up.
[2:21:31] I don't disagree that the mentee decoupling is a new issue.
[2:21:36] I think it is something that we have a policy window for right
[2:21:39] now because the big sexy thing that
[2:21:43] is going to dominate discourse is about revenue and data
[2:21:48] centers MMT is the primary local tax
[2:21:51] source related to data centers.
[2:21:53] And there is a clear through line.
[2:21:55] And there's frankly, I think, a political talking point
[2:21:59] because i see 70 being set to necessarily
[2:22:02] at or below personal property as a Republican dead hand
[2:22:07] guidance It is a limitation on corporate taxation
[2:22:12] that is being realized in the future.
[2:22:14] And you if you get a majority that's eager to make change,
[2:22:18] I think there's a policy window between data centers that
[2:22:21] and localities saying we want more that
[2:22:24] makes this a compelling issue.
[2:22:26] Maybe something that doesn't move forward,
[2:22:28] but there are special workgroups brought up
[2:22:30] around data centers and finance that we
[2:22:32] can inject this issue into.
[2:22:34] But me having individual conversations
[2:22:37] with senators calls in and deeds who I will also
[2:22:40] say this was the most interesting
[2:22:43] of the various things I've talked about Having
[2:22:46] those individual conversation is not
[2:22:47] going to elevate it to the degree
[2:22:49] that I think we would need If we want to inject this
[2:22:51] into those conversations around finance
[2:22:55] and actually get some attention on this issue.
[2:22:57] So I would i would ask that the board consider adding this
[2:23:01] to our program.
[2:23:03] I would also suggest the program is
[2:23:07] a way for us to elevate priorities of things That's
[2:23:09] asking for things to be filed.
[2:23:11] I appreciate the discussion that we had.
[2:23:13] And I know it's in our positions about transportation funding.
[2:23:16] This has been the clearest and most consistent thing
[2:23:18] that the board has said in the past two years.
[2:23:22] And what we'd for where the Transportation
[2:23:26] Board for our local district are going
[2:23:28] to tell us and all the things they're doing
[2:23:29] is always going to be based on what they've been allocated.
[2:23:33] And it's missing the question of how much
[2:23:35] are we actually allocate into road construction through Vdot
[2:23:38] And that conversation needs to be with legislators.
[2:23:41] And I think that means we need to elevate that in our
[2:23:44] in our transportation or in our legislative program
[2:23:48] a specific request for funding.
[2:23:50] I think there's also and I'll just say this
[2:23:52] because I've got the talking stick,
[2:23:53] I think there is an important piece of storytelling that can
[2:23:59] be done around this right now.
[2:24:01] The big sexy thing that everyone wants to solve is housing.
[2:24:06] It is something that's a majority is really
[2:24:10] eager to show movement on.
[2:24:11] And the main way they have to look
[2:24:13] at that is through preemption and in localities
[2:24:16] and trying to incentivize more growth in specific localities
[2:24:20] that look like us, that look like Chesterfield, that look
[2:24:24] like Spotsylvania I can tell you right now, you know,
[2:24:28] my organization is working on lobbying.
[2:24:31] Chester field, who's doing it down,
[2:24:34] zoning across their whole county right now.
[2:24:36] And the main argument that Chesterfield right now
[2:24:39] is bringing up is we have too much traffic
[2:24:42] on this area that is zoned high density and not yet developed.
[2:24:46] This is a through line that we hear from our constituents
[2:24:49] when we explore higher density developments
[2:24:52] in more of the suburban fringe.
[2:24:54] And I'm sure it's something these other suburban localities,
[2:24:57] which are the place where most growth is happening
[2:25:00] in the Commonwealth and it's poised
[2:25:02] to happen And the political stifling is coming
[2:25:05] from transportation So I think there's a very
[2:25:08] clear through line that a democratic majority is
[2:25:11] interested in housing But because transportation funding
[2:25:14] is parochial and they mostly represent
[2:25:16] cities that pay for their own transportation
[2:25:20] or have transit systems, there is not that parochial interest
[2:25:24] in beat up funding.
[2:25:25] I think this helps create that clear through line
[2:25:28] of how we connect their priorities
[2:25:31] as urban representatives as people who might not represent
[2:25:35] constituents that depend on Dot funding to their priorities
[2:25:40] Right?
[2:25:41] Like your priority is housing to do housing
[2:25:44] you need this I think that's a really compelling case that we
[2:25:48] can make, and I think we're uniquely well positioned
[2:25:50] to make that case as a non urban locality that is growing
[2:25:56] and that also, frankly it is predominantly democratic.
[2:26:01] There's a very finite number of those
[2:26:03] that can make that argument.
[2:26:04] I think we should be making that argument Lastly, and this.
[2:26:11] I would not expect the board to act on this today.
[2:26:14] I would I would ask that the board chew on this
[2:26:16] and maybe think about it before we
[2:26:18] adopt our legislative position, because the language itself
[2:26:20] is really simple.
[2:26:22] I think it can sometimes be nice to add to our program, something
[2:26:26] that we know is moving forward.
[2:26:28] But as a statement of values and priorities and I
[2:26:33] think it is prudent for us for the same kind
[2:26:35] of political incentives.
[2:26:36] I was just talking about to say something about housing,
[2:26:41] I might suggest that this board endorse expansion
[2:26:45] and continuation of the 5,000 families program.
[2:26:49] This is a state pilot voucher program that does what it says
[2:26:54] it's got do it is a state level voucher for 5,000 families.
[2:26:58] It was approved in the last budget.
[2:27:00] It is a simple as in.
[2:27:02] It's a clean ask It is a complicated ask
[2:27:04] for the legislators because they've got to find the money.
[2:27:07] But it is it would significantly expand the number of people
[2:27:11] who are able to actually afford housing in this Commonwealth.
[2:27:16] And it would be a simple thing for us to ask for.
[2:27:18] And it would help elevate this kind of wonky program
[2:27:21] that really just does the simple key thing that most people need
[2:27:25] to access housing, which is give them money to access housing.
[2:27:30] So I would ask that you chew on that
[2:27:32] and consider whether or not that would be something
[2:27:35] you'd be interested to add to the legislative program
[2:27:38] The M.A. we've talked about it multiple times on this board
[2:27:42] during my time here, I would ask that we
[2:27:45] consider adding that today Supervisor Mitchell Thank you.
[2:27:51] I'm in the same boat as Supervisor Duncan
[2:27:54] in a lot of ways, so I'll ask a few questions
[2:27:57] and one is I'll just kind of sort of riff on what
[2:28:01] you were just talking about.
[2:28:02] The affordable housing piece.
[2:28:05] And let me ask a general question
[2:28:06] So I'm looking at the 2027 legislative program, which
[2:28:09] is attachment A, I think that's where
[2:28:11] we're those are where we're asking questions and adding
[2:28:14] suggestions to.
[2:28:15] Correct.
[2:28:16] OK So on there, it does talk about affordable housing
[2:28:18] because I was wondering the same thing.
[2:28:20] It's very general support legislation
[2:28:22] that promotes the production of preservation
[2:28:23] of affordable housing whether through state support
[2:28:26] or enhanced enabling authority.
[2:28:28] Do we need to add more detail to it like you're suggesting,
[2:28:31] or is that enough to cover at this level
[2:28:34] those types of programs?
[2:28:37] If the questions to me, I would say we
[2:28:39] have a limited amount of time.
[2:28:41] And sometimes it comes down to what are the five things
[2:28:43] we're asking for this year ?
[2:28:45] OK, we have a bullet of normally specific bills.
[2:28:48] So it's appropriate to get more specific in each one
[2:28:51] of these categories.
[2:28:51] If if necessary.
[2:28:52] That's what I'm just and I don't want to get out of turn
[2:28:55] without trying to make this money
[2:28:57] or disagreeing with stuff Yeah, I'm
[2:28:58] just asking that question to sort of craft
[2:29:01] my other comments as well Yeah.
[2:29:02] And I think I would offer that if and when there
[2:29:05] is a very specific item to borrow Mr. Pruitt's language
[2:29:10] to ask them to introduce as a bill.
[2:29:12] Yeah, it's it would be appropriate to say,
[2:29:14] let's add that to let's add this very specific thing
[2:29:17] to the program.
[2:29:18] It's where it's items where the board is broad and supportive
[2:29:23] of action in that area, but does not
[2:29:26] have a specific solution in mind where the positions and policies
[2:29:31] statements will sort of lean into those But if you know,
[2:29:33] if housing Albemarle had a very specific state code
[2:29:37] change that would really help advance that work.
[2:29:40] If we would recommend that the board add that specifically
[2:29:43] to the program So that's something
[2:29:45] that we could ask our local delegation to introduce Okay.
[2:29:48] Well, then I'll ask these questions just
[2:29:50] for what it's worth, and maybe, maybe some of them are,
[2:29:53] are a little bit outside of what this is intended to be.
[2:29:56] But I'll just throw them out there
[2:29:57] One is the photo speed camera piece.
[2:30:00] I'm just curious why limit the eligibility to 35mph higher?
[2:30:04] Because there are other areas where there are 25mph or less,
[2:30:08] whether it's schools or other locations,
[2:30:12] rural communities etc., that it may apply to.
[2:30:15] Is there a reason that we cut it at 35?
[2:30:17] It's a max There's a max low as well.
[2:30:20] Oh, and below.
[2:30:21] OK, gotcha.
[2:30:21] OK.
[2:30:22] So it could be on other roads that are below the 35.
[2:30:26] It's not just 30.
[2:30:26] Mike, thank you The housing section.
[2:30:30] I think there's one thing that we've
[2:30:31] talked a little bit about here, and I
[2:30:34] don't know if it's worth putting in because the language speaks
[2:30:36] to most of the funding but I just don't want us to lose track
[2:30:41] of the importance of having a streamlined review
[2:30:44] process and possible incentives for affordable housing
[2:30:48] and whether that gets added to that housing section in terms
[2:30:51] of support.
[2:30:52] So state support enhanced enabling
[2:30:54] authority, streamlined review process
[2:30:56] and potential incentives.
[2:30:58] I think would be helpful You know the discussion that we're
[2:31:05] talking about relative to mostly in southern albemarle
[2:31:08] and the case for some of that fun stuff,
[2:31:10] talking about stream preservation,
[2:31:12] we now have a riparian buffer ordinance,
[2:31:14] which I think is very helpful.
[2:31:17] I don't know if the environment if there's anything in here that
[2:31:20] should be considered in terms of sediment,
[2:31:24] erosion control, those types of things As as a broader subject
[2:31:28] to consider And I think that I would also
[2:31:35] echo the broadband piece.
[2:31:37] I know we've been part of that.
[2:31:40] I think Supervisor Brewer and I have been part of those meetings
[2:31:43] and has seen the progress.
[2:31:45] But the supervisor advisor, Mallex comments that still not
[2:31:49] complete.
[2:31:49] So I don't know if we want to completely take it off
[2:31:51] or if we feel like the programs that we have in place have
[2:31:54] enough traction and momentum to get the job done,
[2:31:58] or if we need to continue to push that, that's it.
[2:32:02] That's supervisor opposed to currently.
[2:32:05] Okay.
[2:32:05] First of all, I just want to clarify if I misunderstood,
[2:32:08] but for the photo speed cameras is
[2:32:11] for it applies only to segments and secondary roads
[2:32:15] having posted speeds of 35 miles or higher it does
[2:32:19] say it does set with speed side.
[2:32:22] Yeah Composite crash fatalities supports
[2:32:25] and everything like that.
[2:32:26] So your point can be lower.
[2:32:28] We we don't know yet.
[2:32:29] We haven't gotten anywhere with this despite you know,
[2:32:34] we've been to Richmond, we've spoken to the committee
[2:32:37] and everything.
[2:32:38] But hopefully maybe it will gain some traction
[2:32:41] because I think this is something
[2:32:43] that the rural areas are asking a lot.
[2:32:45] And I think it should go more so to some of the smaller roads
[2:32:50] right now, secondary roads.
[2:32:52] But having said that, again I think i can't.
[2:33:01] Oh, I regarding Amtrak, well, first of all,
[2:33:04] I like the whole agenda, so that's not a problem.
[2:33:07] I like the whole agenda.
[2:33:09] I just have a couple of questions The Amtrak improvement
[2:33:14] does that affect us?
[2:33:18] Yes So when all of the capital projects that are currently
[2:33:23] being undertaken are complete, that
[2:33:26] provides capacity for Amtrak passenger rail service
[2:33:30] to allow a second train from the Charlottesville station
[2:33:34] to that heads up to Washington, D.C. And beyond.
[2:33:38] And then it also opens up some opportunity is across
[2:33:44] across the commonwealth And I don't know Mr. Blunt knows more.
[2:33:48] Yeah, but there's the capital projects for Amtrak
[2:33:51] will provide additional service for Charlottesville.
[2:33:54] OK So that's that's good.
[2:33:57] I agree regarding the legislative deadlines
[2:34:01] and I and I think we're we're aware we've been doing
[2:34:05] this for several years now.
[2:34:07] We're we're always coming into late.
[2:34:09] So how that gets fixed, I don't know.
[2:34:11] But it's been a few years that we keep saying that.
[2:34:15] Also regarding broadband that was
[2:34:17] supposed to have been completed for the county
[2:34:21] last December of 25.
[2:34:22] Now they're saying spring of 27 for the complete year.
[2:34:27] And we do have some real outliers
[2:34:30] there with like a three mile long driveway that
[2:34:33] is proving very challenging But it's now
[2:34:36] supposed to be spring of 27.
[2:34:38] So hopefully the Northwest area of Albemarle
[2:34:42] gets taken care of But those just those comments.
[2:34:47] But I do approve of what I didn't I did want to ask
[2:34:52] supervisor Pruitt though you mentioned 5,000.
[2:34:55] It helps that the state has a program for 5,000 vouchers
[2:35:01] program is called 5,000 families.
[2:35:04] It is that local.
[2:35:05] It it's a state administered voucher program.
[2:35:08] Similar to the housing choice voucher program.
[2:35:10] And that was created through the budget this year,
[2:35:13] statewide or locality based I believe
[2:35:16] it is statewide and dispersed as state vouchers through the local
[2:35:22] So we administer them.
[2:35:23] But i don't want to get over my skis.
[2:35:25] It's brand new.
[2:35:26] I'm not even sure if vouchers are live on it yet.
[2:35:29] Okay.
[2:35:29] And we don't know if they're going to allocate so many
[2:35:32] per area, you know, for city or county.
[2:35:37] Okay But I mean, that sounds like a good program That's all.
[2:35:42] Thank you.
[2:35:44] I just want can I circle back around on broadband
[2:35:47] because I realize I didn't talk about it I just want to one,
[2:35:51] clarify and kind of add a little bit more texture to what
[2:35:54] supervisor Pistole currently was saying about what
[2:35:56] the current status of deployment is
[2:36:00] and how I think that should affect our positions.
[2:36:02] Statement So Body 2021 is our primary vehicle
[2:36:07] for funding the existing expansion
[2:36:12] that's going to cover 99.9% of the county and the main outlier
[2:36:17] and remaining work to be done is correct.
[2:36:20] The early civil service area, which is probably getting
[2:36:24] deployed before spring because they
[2:36:26] want to get their money, which they
[2:36:27] can't get their money for it.
[2:36:29] If they go past the end of the year.
[2:36:32] But that is in process and is already program.
[2:36:35] There are not more houses that are
[2:36:36] going to be coming out of that.
[2:36:37] There's then an additional something like 1,400 households
[2:36:41] that are going to remain unserved.
[2:36:44] Most of those are getting picked up in be said.
[2:36:47] That is the federal program that's
[2:36:49] going to take a longer cool down time.
[2:36:51] But we have done our piece in administering
[2:36:54] that And those most of those will get additionally served.
[2:36:58] There are few pulled out of that that
[2:37:00] would remain unserved, which we are currently identifying
[2:37:04] how we could best serve them for a round of funding of 80 2026.
[2:37:09] This is all just to say, I think we actually have our Vanessa.
[2:37:12] It's a rare thing for me to say.
[2:37:14] I think we have the funding vehicles.
[2:37:16] I think it's just a matter of remaining implementation
[2:37:19] and so I would concur with staff that I
[2:37:22] don't think we need to request funding on that still.
[2:37:26] I think it's important that we still have a request in there.
[2:37:29] But I think we need to be talking about affordability.
[2:37:32] Consumer Protection and reliability
[2:37:35] which I would suggest means more than digital equity
[2:37:39] to someone who's going to read this.
[2:37:41] But that is digital equity.
[2:37:43] So it just might be prudent to I know.
[2:37:46] Mr..
[2:37:47] And if went has used that language because that
[2:37:50] is the language of the trade I might suggest.
[2:37:55] I'm not sure delegate Laufer knows what it means
[2:37:59] when you say it Digital equity.
[2:38:02] And so maybe we should say broadband affordability,
[2:38:05] broadband, consumer protection funding
[2:38:08] and broadband reliability Sorry.
[2:38:12] Thank you.
[2:38:13] Yeah In the interest of time, I won't do any transfer station
[2:38:19] lectures today, but the bus, I think speaking to the timing,
[2:38:25] I think that man, the whole piece
[2:38:28] of your too late coming in, and meeting this goes back back
[2:38:31] to when I was on the school board
[2:38:33] and was being told the same thing as a school board.
[2:38:35] And what is the primary obstacle?
[2:38:38] It's getting us all together at the same time.
[2:38:40] As always, the scheduling conundrum.
[2:38:42] So why are we not just going to by twos
[2:38:44] with individual legislators?
[2:38:47] We could take the supervisors who are the best on the topic.
[2:38:50] So if we did, mentee might could be on that two by 2.
[2:38:53] We've just been volunteer aired meet with an individual One
[2:38:57] person.
[2:38:57] But we could do it where we don't
[2:38:59] have to meet all together Let's remove the obstacle
[2:39:02] to the timing problem.
[2:39:03] If we want to get all together for the show of it,
[2:39:06] the performance of it we could still do that.
[2:39:09] And all of those 2 by 2s would have happened.
[2:39:12] The nitty gritty conversations, the advocacy could happen.
[2:39:14] We would trust that board members would advocate
[2:39:18] for the board regardless of who the two are,
[2:39:20] with whichever individual person, and then
[2:39:22] the pull together could be Well, here's
[2:39:26] the summary of the conversations and then we
[2:39:28] don't get into you missed the deadline or the early bird
[2:39:30] deadline.
[2:39:31] I didn't even know there was an early bird deadline.
[2:39:33] So that's a new one for me But I think
[2:39:36] that we have to get past because this is a common complaint going
[2:39:40] back a long time.
[2:39:42] And it's time if we keep trying to do the same damn thing,
[2:39:45] we were.
[2:39:45] That supervisor is not here anymore
[2:39:47] that you know, you get the same result.
[2:39:49] Why are we still doing it?
[2:39:50] And then we just talk about it in the fall.
[2:39:52] So could we make the effort right now to go.
[2:39:55] Let's let's set up a strategy, work on your group meeting.
[2:39:59] That's fine.
[2:40:00] They want to come and be with us all together
[2:40:01] and have chats and conversations, especially
[2:40:03] leading into election year, which is a priority.
[2:40:06] We heard that earlier from Mr. Blunt
[2:40:07] that they want to get out of Dodge because they
[2:40:10] want to go campaign Then.
[2:40:12] OK, then let's we will do that.
[2:40:15] And I think it's important for us to get together with them.
[2:40:17] And we can speak kind of philosophically
[2:40:19] in those moments.
[2:40:20] But let's get the grunt work happening on the street
[2:40:23] before the end of September, if that's doable.
[2:40:25] And I think that certainly which saying we can look at,
[2:40:27] I'd have two comments in response that First of all that
[2:40:30] in my past experience, it's not so much the six board members,
[2:40:34] it's the scheduling constraint it's the three legislators.
[2:40:37] I get it that they're the ones that say, oh, we
[2:40:39] can't do it, and so on and so forth So,
[2:40:42] so getting the six of you together is not nearly as
[2:40:44] big of a timing constraint as getting the three of them
[2:40:46] together, two of us getting after.
[2:40:48] And I'm not saying to people, go meet with all three.
[2:40:51] I'm saying to can go meet with these two.
[2:40:53] Others could meet with blood and how
[2:40:55] are they going to get around that Right now, we
[2:40:57] don't have to accommodate three state representatives schedules.
[2:41:01] We have to accommodate one individually
[2:41:04] and we can do it collectively and then
[2:41:06] we can figure out the other conundrum later
[2:41:07] that that certainly an option.
[2:41:09] The second.
[2:41:09] Come, I have for you is that this isn't an election year.
[2:41:12] So it's not an issue.
[2:41:13] But in election years, we often don't
[2:41:15] know who are legislators will be until after election day.
[2:41:18] And so there's that problem that in election years,
[2:41:22] we don't know who are delegates are going to
[2:41:23] and senators are going to be until after election day.
[2:41:26] So that's that one of the reasons why it's typically
[2:41:29] held later so that we actually know who are represented
[2:41:31] are going to be.
[2:41:32] Yeah, I get it.
[2:41:33] Understood.
[2:41:33] And we can accommodate for that.
[2:41:35] But at least.
[2:41:35] Let's get the conversations going We're already.
[2:41:37] I mean, they all invited us for one on ones earlier
[2:41:40] and the spring following the session.
[2:41:42] And people when I know some of you all went and met.
[2:41:45] So, I mean, let's just build on that strategy
[2:41:47] and see what we can do.
[2:41:48] We all got our packets, so you all have your individual things
[2:41:52] that you could say, but in a two by two, you can help each other,
[2:41:57] could help accommodate making sure we stay true to the board.
[2:42:00] The collective board approach to the legislative position,
[2:42:04] and then we can do the all together,
[2:42:06] get together later as we normally do.
[2:42:08] Should the supervisor Galloway one one open item
[2:42:12] that I would add to Mr. Harris list
[2:42:14] is just the board would formally adopt the program
[2:42:18] for this coming year at your October 21 board meeting.
[2:42:23] And unless you all wanted to give direction on the items
[2:42:25] before us ahead of that and then we
[2:42:27] could start working on scheduling
[2:42:29] those meetings with the legislators in September.
[2:42:30] OK.
[2:42:31] So that sounds like a hiccup for this year
[2:42:35] But next year, we can approve our platform knowing
[2:42:37] that the schedule changes.
[2:42:38] So everything else can change.
[2:42:40] This is all fixable.
[2:42:42] And workable and in my mind, is there any objection from anybody
[2:42:46] to that?
[2:42:46] No.
[2:42:47] Makes sense that that would be an improvement to the 2027
[2:42:50] program.
[2:42:50] But yes, so notice but I mean I'm
[2:42:53] saying can we start trying to get together
[2:42:55] with individual people now?
[2:42:56] So we can have some conversations
[2:42:58] about what we're talking about?
[2:42:59] This year?
[2:43:00] You're welcome to.
[2:43:01] But as ms..
[2:43:02] Kilbride pointed out, the board isn't going to formally adopt
[2:43:05] this until October 21st unless we were able to get on a sooner
[2:43:09] agenda.
[2:43:09] Or unless the board wanted to provide direction
[2:43:11] to date to I think there were some proposals
[2:43:14] during this discussion regarding the M.A.
[2:43:18] as well as adding elevating transportation funding So
[2:43:21] if we have that list of three items
[2:43:23] formally fully planned to bring us together
[2:43:25] on what the direction will be at the end of the conference
[2:43:27] session, I don't think we need to wait
[2:43:29] for a formal adoption of agree to get there
[2:43:33] because we're all nobody's objected to anything that I
[2:43:36] could hear.
[2:43:37] I hear nuancing.
[2:43:38] If anything So I don't hear anybody going.
[2:43:40] I don't agree with that.
[2:43:41] I don't agree with that.
[2:43:42] But yeah we got to get better at this.
[2:43:44] Sure.
[2:43:45] And let's not just because saddle up for another year doing
[2:43:49] it the same old way when we can attempt something,
[2:43:51] and that could inform us better for next year And that's not
[2:43:54] criticism to any of y'all because the board just needs
[2:43:56] to say, All right, let's do it.
[2:43:58] Let's do it differently right now.
[2:44:00] Yeah I did want to say that the three legislators,
[2:44:04] I think it's going to be a yearly thing.
[2:44:06] I know they came this year.
[2:44:07] It was on a Sunday was a town hall meeting here
[2:44:11] And that would be a perfect opportune minute.
[2:44:12] If we could get on their schedule for next year
[2:44:15] to then have a meeting with the board That was on a Sunday.
[2:44:19] But you know, that's where I guess
[2:44:21] we'll be open to all ideas for next year.
[2:44:23] I think like right now it's like, let's get this.
[2:44:26] Yeah, let's get some traction and get on the,
[2:44:28] get, get out on the street right now with them
[2:44:30] and try to talk about it.
[2:44:32] The only other thing I wanted to talk about today
[2:44:34] is transportation.
[2:44:35] And it's not funding.
[2:44:36] And it actually doesn't change anything in this packet other
[2:44:38] than some wording.
[2:44:40] So I did suggest some altered change to the transportation
[2:44:43] position statement, and it was primarily just the First
[2:44:46] of those statements.
[2:44:47] The rest, if I did what I thought I did,
[2:44:49] I think I I might have adjusted it.
[2:44:52] But it basically kept items two through five the same,
[2:44:56] but item one is what I've changed.
[2:44:58] I'm not asking for a bill from any of these three.
[2:45:01] And frankly, it's not.
[2:45:03] Don't even need much time in our meeting with them
[2:45:06] because the clearly the letter that I'm advocating for
[2:45:09] is a whole different approach and strategy.
[2:45:11] And isn't even a funding ask.
[2:45:13] So quick note 2020.
[2:45:14] 2021 J Clerk did their study.
[2:45:17] The General Assembly advocated another $560,000,055 million
[2:45:22] to two to transport that year.
[2:45:24] And lo and behold didn't really go too far right.
[2:45:28] And one of their great ideas was the mileage use
[2:45:30] for the voluntary thing that literally
[2:45:32] says if you choose to be taxed, whoever
[2:45:35] is going to say yes when they read that phrase,
[2:45:38] regardless of all the other content, the repeal,
[2:45:41] the text that had been passed.
[2:45:42] And the funny thing is is it's lumped into all
[2:45:44] the other use fees.
[2:45:45] And I haven't been able to find what actually has been collected
[2:45:48] from the voluntary mileage use program
[2:45:50] or whatever it's called anyway, the strategy.
[2:45:53] I'm asking the board to adopt is to call on the governor
[2:45:57] to convene a conversation because a lot of work
[2:46:00] has been done.
[2:46:00] I appreciate that our new Commonwealth transportation
[2:46:03] Board representative and the Virginia Department,
[2:46:06] the transportation secretary, keeps saying,
[2:46:09] well, we got to get better at prioritization Actually,
[2:46:11] Virginia compared to all the other states,
[2:46:13] does a damn good job of prioritizing the projects
[2:46:16] But at the end of the day, fewer and fewer priorities
[2:46:18] get done because of the funding model and the 558 million
[2:46:22] that they added is the proof that this
[2:46:24] isn't a budget decision.
[2:46:26] It's not a two year or a one year budget.
[2:46:29] It never will be.
[2:46:30] They have to look at and go okay,
[2:46:32] for the next 50 years, what's the program going
[2:46:35] to be that's going to adequately do what our transport nation
[2:46:37] program is going to do?
[2:46:38] And that's the part that they're not doing.
[2:46:41] They've talked around it.
[2:46:42] There's ideas but now it's time to get the decision
[2:46:46] makers in the room and convene and this
[2:46:49] was not because sometimes it's like, well,
[2:46:52] am I just doing this?
[2:46:53] Is this just Albemarle?
[2:46:55] It's not going to ever be accomplished
[2:46:57] if one locality is just alone trying to do this
[2:47:00] and yelling and screaming, it's going
[2:47:02] to take the collective effort of all the localities
[2:47:05] and that effort was well received at the Virginia
[2:47:08] Associated Counties Summer session
[2:47:10] at the Transportation Committee So I fully
[2:47:12] expect a fuller count.
[2:47:13] David, you were there.
[2:47:14] Am I misrepresenting Well, maybe you weren't in the room.
[2:47:17] I don't I don't know who was behind me, but.
[2:47:20] But these are your folks that have
[2:47:22] who are also local uS transportation
[2:47:25] folks that i would say that are revered in the state
[2:47:27] by the General Assembly.
[2:47:28] Folks as local politicians on the issue.
[2:47:31] Right.
[2:47:31] That joining with the vaiko effort,
[2:47:35] joining with our own regional push,
[2:47:38] I think could get some momentum going.
[2:47:41] But it's not that any and nobody is saying we're just
[2:47:44] asking for more money.
[2:47:45] We're asking for something that's
[2:47:46] sustainable and predictable and not for two years,
[2:47:50] but for 30 years.
[2:47:51] For 50 years.
[2:47:54] So if there are no objections I did offer the letter
[2:47:58] that i drafted for the governor.
[2:48:00] What I would love to do is to take the letter we
[2:48:03] that the board signed off on and endorsed from the pdf
[2:48:06] from last year.
[2:48:08] Send that along with the Governor letter
[2:48:10] to the Governor at our legislative session
[2:48:14] with our locals.
[2:48:15] We'll bring that and go here.
[2:48:16] You were copied on the T j PDQ letter.
[2:48:19] Here's what we've said to the governor.
[2:48:21] Here's the rationale.
[2:48:22] Here's the point.
[2:48:23] Then I'll be able to take all that to the Vaiko committees
[2:48:26] and show them what Albemarle positions been.
[2:48:28] And then I can take we could take this file.
[2:48:31] And I can take it to the commission
[2:48:33] and see if we can get our local region on board
[2:48:36] with this kind of strategy as well.
[2:48:38] This doesn't change anything.
[2:48:40] I don't think with the meeting with the other three other
[2:48:43] than here's what we're doing, and we'd appreciate your support
[2:48:47] in this effort.
[2:48:48] And I mean, otherwise we're just going
[2:48:50] to get the same old talking points.
[2:48:52] And that's no criticism of our local delegates
[2:48:54] because it's coming from the whole group
[2:48:58] And I honestly just at this point
[2:49:00] don't think they know what else to say.
[2:49:02] So it's that means it's time to convene and do
[2:49:04] something different and not study it to death.
[2:49:06] We know what the rising costs are.
[2:49:08] We know why the revenues are declining
[2:49:11] So this is something I think merits that kind of push.
[2:49:14] And then we'll have a revised transportation
[2:49:16] study that supports it.
[2:49:17] So when the advocacy works actually happening,
[2:49:20] it'll be there and hopefully we can
[2:49:22] get a groundswell of localities that kind of keep going in this.
[2:49:25] The Floyd County guy was just as interested as the Roanoke County
[2:49:29] guy.
[2:49:30] So you know, this has broad appeal I think,
[2:49:33] and could do something to future vaiko presidents in those two
[2:49:37] people.
[2:49:38] So yeah.
[2:49:39] Brings the whole ones next right?
[2:49:41] Yeah, for sure.
[2:49:42] And then he then in the other in the Floyd County
[2:49:44] goes right by two years after.
[2:49:46] Yeah.
[2:49:47] All right.
[2:49:48] So that's my bet for today.
[2:49:50] And I'm not hearing any objection to that.
[2:49:52] So I'm going to proceed.
[2:49:53] The board actually had voted several months ago
[2:49:56] to authorize the chair to sign a letter to the governor
[2:49:59] about transportation funding.
[2:50:00] So I don't know that I need a new action because i still
[2:50:03] have that.
[2:50:03] I don't know.
[2:50:04] Are discussing that, that I could still whip off this letter
[2:50:07] based on smoke But I just decided to bring it
[2:50:10] back up for reconsideration.
[2:50:13] So if there's no objection to that the to tidy this up.
[2:50:18] The machinery and tools piece and supervise
[2:50:20] are Pruitt said, we'd like to add
[2:50:22] is there any objection to adding that i
[2:50:24] don't know about its likelihood but we can add it.
[2:50:28] OK.
[2:50:29] I just didn't completely understand
[2:50:30] what it was you wanted to do.
[2:50:32] So.
[2:50:33] Well, we can get into that.
[2:50:34] It's a decoupling basically, that gives us a little bit
[2:50:37] more nuance with it.
[2:50:38] As a taxpayer So I'm hearing the consensus of the board
[2:50:42] is to elevate that to a priority status in the program.
[2:50:45] That's what I think the request was.
[2:50:46] And I didn't hear any objection.
[2:50:48] OK.
[2:50:48] The other piece is the endorsement of the 5,000 family
[2:50:51] program.
[2:50:52] And I understand the rationale and the strategy behind it.
[2:50:55] And plus, it should help people regardless of where they live
[2:50:58] So I have no I have no objection to that.
[2:51:00] I don't know if anybody else does.
[2:51:02] And I don't know the clarifying question on that.
[2:51:04] One is that expansion of the number of vouchers or extension
[2:51:08] of the time of the program I would suggest both.
[2:51:11] I think it's currently two years and actually decreases
[2:51:14] in funding over time, which would necessarily kick people
[2:51:17] off of the voucher Yeah So that also
[2:51:23] would be elevates the priority part of the program
[2:51:26] That sounds more like a endorsement of something that's
[2:51:29] in play, if I understood correct and get it that it's like,
[2:51:33] let's give that to him.
[2:51:34] So it's not necessarily taking up a bill slot,
[2:51:37] but as a priority point of topic of conversation
[2:51:39] for the full gathering when we all get together OK.
[2:51:42] That I misrepresent that i heard some common area
[2:51:48] about the wording.
[2:51:49] I don't think there's a downside to keeping supervisor Mallex
[2:51:52] piece about the broadband in.
[2:51:54] I do think that it's important to show that we understand what
[2:51:57] Supervisor Pruitt explained and all of that
[2:52:00] should help to say that we still have residents who don't have
[2:52:02] broadband and we need to make sure we're all aware of that
[2:52:05] and keep on it A short phrase in there that
[2:52:08] says they have no access to emerge just these services when
[2:52:11] it rains, that should get them or should get some attention
[2:52:15] And now I'm looking did I miss a topic that we that we have
[2:52:18] to clear up before we recess?
[2:52:20] I don't think so.
[2:52:21] I would like a little more clarity on the 5,000 families,
[2:52:23] whether that, again, is a is a priority or whether
[2:52:27] that's something that's put in the principals,
[2:52:29] because I still not I hear interest in it but I'm not
[2:52:32] hearing where that land and all I'll offer for discussion adding
[2:52:37] it as up to the position of policy statements under
[2:52:40] the housing header and making sure that it's part
[2:52:43] of the legislative forum discussion As for reaction
[2:52:48] housing, that would be I, I don't want to overly steer this.
[2:52:52] When I had said it, I imagined it as a priority.
[2:52:56] But if that belief of both the board and staff
[2:52:59] is that it would make more sense as a position
[2:53:00] that we talk about the forum, then that's also fine by me I,
[2:53:05] I think she was saying under attachment
[2:53:08] 11, a legislative program, those are the priorities And on page
[2:53:13] two is or that principles I see okay
[2:53:15] is where the housing is so it's on the same document.
[2:53:17] It's just adding a sentence there
[2:53:20] would help because I didn't know anything about this.
[2:53:23] And others may be equally clueless,
[2:53:25] open to any direction from the board.
[2:53:27] I just building off of Mr. Galloway's I mean,
[2:53:30] I think funding sounds like the priority,
[2:53:33] making sure it's and you would question
[2:53:34] whether the funding was there if this board is amenable to it.
[2:53:38] But I would like to see it as a legislative priority.
[2:53:41] It gives us the ability it puts it
[2:53:43] on that first page of the Palm Card
[2:53:45] that they say, yeah, I have no objection to that.
[2:53:48] OK, I like that And to your point,
[2:53:50] it wouldn't take up bill slot for them.
[2:53:52] So it's not us being too pushy on that front.
[2:53:55] Yeah, great And then, yes, transportation
[2:53:58] would be one of the three.
[2:54:00] So we currently have four to speed as number one.
[2:54:02] We have transport nation, and we have five
[2:54:04] and I'm fine if you all want to not have transportation
[2:54:09] because the idea is, is that we're
[2:54:12] taking the focus to another group that's
[2:54:15] part of the strategy.
[2:54:16] It's like you three can come along but here's
[2:54:19] what we're off and running and doing.
[2:54:21] So I'm happy to make it a priority.
[2:54:22] I certainly wouldn't object to that,
[2:54:24] but I'm saying that it doesn't have to displace something
[2:54:26] because we're going to be already in motion item
[2:54:29] by the time we meet with the folks in the larger group,
[2:54:32] we're already going to be off and running with some of those.
[2:54:34] We're not waiting until this program
[2:54:36] or this meeting with these three locals to do this.
[2:54:39] This is something we're going to send out immediately.
[2:54:42] It was my intent if that makes sense.
[2:54:46] So, you know, they'll get copied I'll get to similar to the PVC
[2:54:50] piece that we did last fall, but the region did.
[2:54:54] And the ideas.
[2:54:55] Yeah it doesn't bump something that we
[2:54:57] want to be a bill slide or a major priority for.
[2:55:00] I mean, it is a major priority.
[2:55:01] We'll be able to say.
[2:55:02] So Yeah I think we would, we would put it
[2:55:05] not as a legislative priority because that is sort of seen
[2:55:11] as the bill slots, but much like the card a discussion just
[2:55:14] keep that as a high priority thing
[2:55:16] that we're talking about and continuing to talk about.
[2:55:20] So I mean, I think we can massage that.
[2:55:22] I don't think it's obviously a priority.
[2:55:24] It's a long game, though, and it's not we're not at this point
[2:55:28] asking for a budget request.
[2:55:31] I think the it'll be interesting to see what Vaiko chooses to do.
[2:55:35] We might be whipping off a second letter
[2:55:37] after the Vaiko what position may decide to take and request
[2:55:41] But I don't want to be stealing any of their thunder
[2:55:43] based on the conversation that happened in summer.
[2:55:45] As if it's about morals.
[2:55:46] I do.
[2:55:47] I hope that you're planning to talk about it at the Region five
[2:55:50] because that would be a great place to get it out.
[2:55:52] That's next Friday.
[2:55:53] Yeah.
[2:55:53] On the 11th.
[2:55:55] Yeah Or week to week from Friday, huh ?
[2:56:00] OK.
[2:56:00] Anything we need to clear up No, I think we've got.
[2:56:04] I think we've got it.
[2:56:05] And I think what we'll do is well,
[2:56:06] we'll work on revising those materials.
[2:56:09] We might put some sort of subject to final adoption but.
[2:56:14] But in that state, those revised materials
[2:56:17] with sort of subject to final adoption tagline,
[2:56:19] hopefully that can get members of the board that
[2:56:21] want to use that proposed final proposed
[2:56:25] final drafts out to their meetings with the legislators.
[2:56:28] Equip you all to have those meetings even prior
[2:56:30] to the formal adoption on October 21.
[2:56:32] Great folders we can deliver, same
[2:56:34] as we've done in the past with the draft in there,
[2:56:37] and we'll work on setting up meetings.
[2:56:40] Supervisors will just have to be available to coordinate quickly
[2:56:43] on this.
[2:56:43] If a time opens up, we may have to be ready to move.
[2:56:46] But the idea would be find the supervisor.
[2:56:49] That's the most educated to speak on that particular issue,
[2:56:53] or one of the three.
[2:56:54] And we'll steer them into the end
[2:56:57] of the meeting like the machinery and tools tax
[2:56:59] that you've got to be in that meeting.
[2:57:01] So there you go.
[2:57:03] There's three meetings for you.
[2:57:04] Yeah, Yeah, great.
[2:57:06] We're just 5 and we can do three meetings.
[2:57:08] That's that.
[2:57:08] We'll see how this works.
[2:57:09] And we can have a discussion about that.
[2:57:11] We can?
[2:57:11] Yeah, we can refine from there.
[2:57:12] Go.
[2:57:12] Great.
[2:57:13] Thank you all.
[2:57:13] Thank you.
[2:57:14] Thank you.
[2:57:14] You.
[2:57:15] Thrilled for the change of effort.
[2:57:17] That's really great.
[2:57:18] Thank you.
[2:57:19] Board We are about what, a half an hour behind.
[2:57:22] So let's do a quick break.
[2:57:23] If we could and come back at four and we'll pick up there.
[2:57:26] If there's no objection to that game plan
[2:57:28] sounds like plan A little Yeah when we were having labor.
[3:07:45] All right, everyone, we are coming back from recess
[3:07:48] and we will move to get my glasses
[3:07:52] and we'll move to item number 12.
[3:07:56] The rural, rustic and unpaved road improvement program
[3:07:59] And I see up Eric at the podium.
[3:08:01] Good afternoon and Yeah, make sure you
[3:08:06] write in on that microphone now Eric,
[3:08:07] sometimes you're a little hard to hear Thank you.
[3:08:13] Where's the pointer thing?
[3:08:14] Do we have that?
[3:08:15] Oh, I'm the wrong person to ask about the pointer
[3:08:20] after recitation Perfect answer Good afternoon, sir.
[3:08:31] Galloway Board.
[3:08:32] My name is Gilbert.
[3:08:34] Karina and I am a transportation planner and planning
[3:08:36] within community development.
[3:08:38] I return to you to clarify our stake
[3:08:40] in Europe processes and the secondary six year plan.
[3:08:43] You are being unpaved Road improvement program, as well as
[3:08:46] present recommendations for roads
[3:08:48] to be included on the maintain gravel roads
[3:08:50] list Be gender for this presentation
[3:08:54] will focus on the following items.
[3:08:57] Clarify find the role rustic and the process
[3:08:59] is recommending roads not to be paved
[3:09:02] to preserve the recreational value
[3:09:04] and prioritizing the types of projects for the secondary Six
[3:09:07] are plan, but a background for secondary A six year plan
[3:09:11] is a veto document that applies to roads
[3:09:14] in the secondary system.
[3:09:15] Identifies that funding allocated
[3:09:17] for the next fiscal year and estimates the available funding
[3:09:20] for the next five fiscal years tell
[3:09:23] if funding stems from utility companies paying a fee
[3:09:26] to VRA to put lines in there right away.
[3:09:28] These funds are being used to help fund the Birkenau drive
[3:09:31] extension by Airport Road district grant.
[3:09:34] Unpaid funds are used both on rural, rustic and other paving
[3:09:38] projects.
[3:09:39] This plan is updated and adopted by the board
[3:09:41] annually each spring Some definitions for rustic roads.
[3:09:48] These are requested to be paved.
[3:09:50] These roads have had two thirds support.
[3:09:52] They are eligible for paving and they have board supports
[3:09:56] and for Europe, I'm going to be using this term
[3:09:58] other presentation you review ripping is kind of a term
[3:10:02] that we've come up with, so please bear with me.
[3:10:05] But these have either had more than one third
[3:10:08] of residents reject paving.
[3:10:10] Vdot has found them ineligible for repaving
[3:10:13] or they're bored projected these roads would still be improved,
[3:10:16] but not paved As a reminder, staff must receive a request
[3:10:22] either through resident or a board member
[3:10:24] representing a constituent step checks
[3:10:27] to see if the road is eligible for paving
[3:10:29] against the Europe in the maintain gravel roads lists.
[3:10:32] And if so staff will send the resident the signature list
[3:10:36] the rural rustic tool kit and the Albemarle County unpaved
[3:10:39] roads process document If the road has already
[3:10:42] been predetermined to not be eligible for paving
[3:10:45] it will be added to the list at the public hearing and may
[3:10:49] the board inquired if there was language in the materials sent
[3:10:51] to the public that describe the pros and cons of paving roads
[3:10:55] On the slide is language that was included in the tool
[3:10:58] kit and maybe some time to read it
[3:11:12] So there are four outcomes that can come out
[3:11:15] of a request for paving outcome.
[3:11:17] One is that the road is paved slash repeat outcome two where
[3:11:20] I can be the requested road will be moved
[3:11:23] to the maintain gravel roads list
[3:11:25] and will be for eligibility outcome C The requested
[3:11:29] road is already on the maintain viable roads list
[3:11:32] and is waiting for eligibility or outcome
[3:11:35] D The request will be addressed through other means.
[3:11:38] It'll be clear in the upcoming slides how request gets
[3:11:41] to one of these four outcomes.
[3:11:45] So the bottom of the chart shows the path of a road,
[3:11:49] assuming that it meets the road.
[3:11:50] Rest of requirements received two thirds signatures received.
[3:11:53] If you don't, approval has been prioritized
[3:11:56] and then a support approved by the board
[3:11:58] should be on the secondary six or plan.
[3:11:59] So the pointer to we get the request,
[3:12:06] we check the basic requirements.
[3:12:08] If yes, we check if it's on the road list.
[3:12:10] In this case, if it's not, we send the request to toolkit.
[3:12:13] If we get two thirds approval from the residents,
[3:12:16] we send it to veto.
[3:12:17] If it meets veto eligibility, then it's
[3:12:20] moved to be on the prioritized road list.
[3:12:22] As a rural rustic, we go to the April board work session.
[3:12:25] And the main board work session.
[3:12:27] And if yes is added to the secondary six year plan list
[3:12:31] and eventually it's paved.
[3:12:33] So that's how it's normally worked for the last few years.
[3:12:38] These are the ways for a road to become a Europe.
[3:12:41] The main decision points for a road becoming a Europe are it
[3:12:46] goes through You get some basic requirements, which
[3:12:49] check if it's on the list.
[3:12:50] If not, we send the rural rustic toolkit.
[3:12:53] If more than one third of oppose, we present the Europe
[3:12:56] option saying, you know, if you don't want the road paved,
[3:12:59] you still want improvements.
[3:13:01] If yes, the road is then moved to the prioritized road
[3:13:04] list as a Europe and then a similar process for the road
[3:13:07] rustic.
[3:13:08] We have the April board work session,
[3:13:10] the public hearing is added to the list
[3:13:12] and eventually becomes a year project.
[3:13:16] Secondly the second way to get on there is vote cannot pave
[3:13:19] the road.
[3:13:20] So same process, it gets to here, it gets through here.
[3:13:23] We get two thirds approve, but we cannot pave the road step
[3:13:27] or request that vote up.
[3:13:29] Essentially the project And there may be factors that still
[3:13:33] prevent veto from Europeana Road But the other decision point is
[3:13:37] if you veto cannot pave the road and the board will still have
[3:13:41] to approve a road as a Europe road Moving on and then maintain
[3:13:51] gravel roads path outcome B and C are similar and they both
[3:13:55] relate to the maintain gravel roads list The main ways
[3:13:58] for a road to end up on this list are the roads previously
[3:14:02] Europe.
[3:14:02] So we get to here if as previously you ripped
[3:14:06] it is therefore ineligible.
[3:14:07] We request for another six years.
[3:14:09] So if you worked in 2028 and someone came in 2030
[3:14:13] asking for paving improvements, it
[3:14:15] wouldn't be available to be requested until 2034.
[3:14:18] And it's on that list More than one third of residents
[3:14:22] reject paving and do not want the road to be changed
[3:14:25] or you repeat.
[3:14:26] So they will want any changes.
[3:14:27] They're happy with the road the way it is.
[3:14:29] It would be added to the maintain of a roads list
[3:14:31] and eligible for request for six years.
[3:14:34] And lastly the board rejects the road project as either a rural,
[3:14:37] rustic or you are a project so it can go through the road.
[3:14:41] Rustic decision point.
[3:14:43] And when it gets to here, if the board does not
[3:14:45] approve as a rural rustic it goes straight back
[3:14:47] into maintenance of our roads.
[3:14:48] Same for Europe.
[3:14:49] Appreciate it.
[3:14:50] Can make it through the whole Europe path through here
[3:14:54] and I guess the board if the board says no, it
[3:14:57] moves to meeting couple rooms.
[3:15:01] Here's a full flowchart.
[3:15:02] I'll come back to it after I finish your presentation
[3:15:04] for any questions The board expressed interest
[3:15:10] in May in preserving unpaved roads for recreational usage
[3:15:13] while vetoed does not have a separate recreational road
[3:15:16] program.
[3:15:17] The board has the power to block paving of any secondary road
[3:15:20] in the county Staff has conducted research
[3:15:23] on popular recreational unpaved roads in the area
[3:15:26] and is presenting that list to you now.
[3:15:29] The following roads have been listed by the Civil Bike Club
[3:15:32] and or ragged mountain running as good roads
[3:15:35] to use for recreation.
[3:15:36] Dick Woods Road, Elliotts Mill Road.
[3:15:38] Wesley Chapel Road Slam gate Road Jones Mill Road Midway
[3:15:42] Road.
[3:15:42] Townsend Creek Road and Ridge Road.
[3:15:45] If the board desires they can add all some or none
[3:15:49] of these roads.
[3:15:50] The main thing all roads list at the april 2027 work session.
[3:15:55] If they are added, they will be ineligible to be requested
[3:15:58] for paving until 2033 following the public hearing
[3:16:02] If a request comes after that, the board may choose
[3:16:05] to keep the road on the list and prevent
[3:16:07] paving or other improvements If the board like to add more
[3:16:11] roads, the appropriate time for that
[3:16:13] will be at the April work session Conclusions will rise to
[3:16:20] and will be merged and the secondary six year
[3:16:22] plan with some projects including paving
[3:16:25] and some projects focusing on improvement without paving
[3:16:28] over this project will be prioritized
[3:16:33] by average daily traffic volumes regardless if they
[3:16:36] are both a Europe or world.
[3:16:37] Much rural rustic project And finally, the board
[3:16:41] may choose to add any secondary road to the meeting gravel
[3:16:44] list for six years at a time.
[3:16:46] At the work session.
[3:16:47] After that, it will become open for paving
[3:16:49] requests Staff will continue to prepare for FY 2833.
[3:16:55] Secondary six year plan using the format presented
[3:16:58] and staff will continue to receive feedback on the process
[3:17:01] and work with the grant to implement.
[3:17:03] Thank you.
[3:17:04] And I'm open for questions All right.
[3:17:08] Supervisor Malik thank you very much for all your work
[3:17:11] at Ridge Road and other places.
[3:17:13] Standing in the ditch watching and worrying
[3:17:15] about these things and this is a huge step
[3:17:18] forward in my understanding And I
[3:17:21] think you all ability to not spend your wheels quite so much
[3:17:25] So that's great.
[3:17:26] Congrats elations on that So I may have misunderstood
[3:17:34] when you were just describing no one's
[3:17:41] ever denied improvements to a gravel road.
[3:17:43] So did I misunderstand you.
[3:17:44] When I heard you say that for six years
[3:17:47] you couldn't ask for repairs to the gravel
[3:17:49] and grading and drainage and stuff like that?
[3:17:52] If something's on the maintained list.
[3:17:54] So if it's on the maintain gravel list,
[3:17:56] it's not eligible to be requested for paving.
[3:17:59] So it wouldn't be eligible to receive a request.
[3:18:01] But if there's an obvious a problem or a maintenance issue
[3:18:04] would be that there was still take care of the paving only I
[3:18:06] just as long as that's clear that I'm clear on that
[3:18:09] that you're talking about paving for the six years,
[3:18:11] the six years has nothing to do with maintenance Yes.
[3:18:14] Okay, great.
[3:18:15] That's excellent.
[3:18:17] And thank you supervisor duncan for sharing.
[3:18:22] Alex, email earlier, because that several other people
[3:18:24] have reached out to me and said all these roads aren't
[3:18:28] on the list.
[3:18:29] Who did they talk to?
[3:18:30] I mean, about running out family is saying,
[3:18:32] I didn't know anything about this.
[3:18:33] So there's been a breakdown.
[3:18:35] But anyway I was sent a long list
[3:18:37] of roads, which I will give you in writing,
[3:18:39] but I'm going to read them now because I
[3:18:40] think they're all they're not just in the Whitehall district.
[3:18:43] They're all over the place of things
[3:18:45] that the trail runners use, the walkers use and the bicycle
[3:18:51] people.
[3:18:51] So I'm grateful for the ones you did list.
[3:18:53] The dick was.
[3:18:54] Velez-Mitchell wesley Chapel slam gate, Medway Pounding
[3:18:57] Creek, John's Mill and Ridge.
[3:18:59] However off of those are others And if you
[3:19:03] looked at the running website, websites and things there,
[3:19:07] all of these 18 mile loops and all these things that
[3:19:09] incorporate a whole lot of these other roads
[3:19:13] Castle Rock, Batesville Road, Clark road, Major One,
[3:19:16] Catterton, Deca Chapel, Spring Bike mountain.
[3:19:19] Ford Green Mountain Road.
[3:19:20] Forsyth rise Path.
[3:19:21] Hurd's Mountain, which is on the paving list.
[3:19:24] Pounding Creek shepherd's Mill really important Secretary
[3:19:28] stands stony Point, Sugar Ridge, Turkey
[3:19:31] sag violating which is connected to slam gate White Mountain
[3:19:37] and dickerson there on the unpaved part right now.
[3:19:40] So i don't know what has to be done
[3:19:44] to recognize all these others.
[3:19:48] They have them all mapped out.
[3:19:49] And I go send all the maps and everything to you.
[3:19:51] I just got this this morning So I
[3:19:55] think it's really important when we're looking at just like we're
[3:19:58] looking at transit networks and things
[3:19:59] when you're looking at recreation
[3:20:01] and then preserving the access to recreation
[3:20:06] for the roads such as the ones i've mentioned
[3:20:09] is a really valid approach.
[3:20:12] Earlier in the day, we learned about a $600,000 grant to build
[3:20:16] a couple of miles of the old Mills Trail This is dozens
[3:20:20] of miles.
[3:20:20] These just these roads I've listed here probably 50.
[3:20:24] And so the cost savings to the county budget
[3:20:28] to provide recreation in places where
[3:20:31] we know the individual and passive recreation is incredibly
[3:20:35] important to a huge number of people
[3:20:37] whom we did not recognize before Covid, that 1 million to 2
[3:20:41] million users a year That job has not gone away.
[3:20:46] So I think it's important that we
[3:20:48] do our very best to make this as thoroughly a list as possible
[3:20:52] and to consider these loops that are being used I forget
[3:20:59] Eggleston saying he was on his bike ride, the 50 mile trip
[3:21:01] from out early ville around Burnsville at around 810
[3:21:04] and all the way back to Crozet.
[3:21:06] I'm going now, brother Life taking your life in your hands.
[3:21:09] The entire way.
[3:21:10] But lots of people do it so that, I think,
[3:21:14] is a really, really helpful thing.
[3:21:17] And that's really all I have at the moment Thank you very much.
[3:21:20] The superb Duncan.
[3:21:23] Yes to everything, Supervisor Malik said some of those
[3:21:27] were the same points that I have.
[3:21:29] So to sort of add on to that, the runners and bikers
[3:21:34] in the community have come up with an excellent argument
[3:21:37] that I really hope they formally send to us
[3:21:40] but they have a list of the top unpaved roads for recreation
[3:21:43] and they have the ones that you have on here,
[3:21:45] but they also have deca, Chapel, Spring, Fox Mountain, Clark,
[3:21:49] Turkey, SAG Secretary Sands, Stony Point
[3:21:53] So again, sort of reiterating what I said in the spring
[3:21:56] that we really need to be doing our due diligence
[3:21:58] and reaching out to the recreational community of what
[3:22:01] roads.
[3:22:01] They want to prioritize And yeah, it's so much cheaper
[3:22:06] to keep our natural greenways than to have
[3:22:08] to like pay hundreds of thousands of dollars
[3:22:10] to create new paths for people to run on.
[3:22:13] But for me in addition to all of this,
[3:22:15] in addition to the great points that people have made in emails,
[3:22:19] is that this actually comes back to a bigger question of what
[3:22:22] we want the county to be.
[3:22:24] You know, are I can I economic development plan calls
[3:22:27] for increased agritourism.
[3:22:28] And one of the needs that identifies to do that
[3:22:30] is connecting with outdoor recreation in the current plan.
[3:22:34] We obviously have a whole section on recreation open space
[3:22:37] And so I was thinking about this because, you know, my kids are
[3:22:40] runners and so this is something that's super important to them
[3:22:44] and something we talked about And you know,
[3:22:47] is the fact that we have such a large running community here.
[3:22:52] Is this something that exists spontaneously
[3:22:56] because we had somebody come in and build a great once
[3:22:59] or 40 years ago.
[3:23:00] And sort of create this culture in that it just
[3:23:04] has to survive on its own merits through volunteers,
[3:23:06] through people who decide to run, or is it
[3:23:08] something that the county wants to encourage and cultivate
[3:23:11] and support, you know, continuously talk about how much
[3:23:15] rural land among ours and how much we want people to preserve
[3:23:18] it and keep it and be this beautiful, great outdoors,
[3:23:21] then we should also ensure that people
[3:23:23] can use it in having access to rural roads.
[3:23:26] For recreation is one of the benefits of having
[3:23:28] a rural county If it's our policies and sort
[3:23:33] of the boards for that prerogative to set roads aside,
[3:23:39] then, you know, I think we really
[3:23:41] need to be communicating with the recreational communities,
[3:23:43] listening to them when they are doing this advocacy.
[3:23:46] There's also, you know, health equity
[3:23:48] for being able to run outside, run,
[3:23:51] you know, for free everywhere in the county.
[3:23:53] People should have access to this.
[3:23:56] These are public goods These are not just about the neighbors
[3:24:00] that live on a road.
[3:24:01] These are, you know, community goods that benefit all of us
[3:24:06] And then just one last point that somebody
[3:24:08] made in one of the emails.
[3:24:10] We got that I thought was a really good request is
[3:24:15] that instead of a real road network analysis based
[3:24:19] on, you know, all the recreation or stuff
[3:24:21] that people are doing as part of the upcoming mobility
[3:24:24] and rural area plans, I think that would be kind of a good way
[3:24:27] to sort of comprehensively look at all of this
[3:24:29] and not just wait until work sessions in April Thank you.
[3:24:35] Thank you.
[3:24:36] Supervisor Pruitt Thank you.
[3:24:39] So I. Great presentation Very I found the flowchart.
[3:24:44] Very good.
[3:24:45] Very well made.
[3:24:46] I appreciate it.
[3:24:46] The key.
[3:24:47] Sometimes we'll make a flowchart and then they
[3:24:49] assume that you'll remember what a maintained gravel road means
[3:24:53] But that's not.
[3:24:54] It's not all there in the name.
[3:24:55] You have to have the key.
[3:24:57] So.
[3:24:57] Very, very good job.
[3:24:58] Thank you.
[3:24:59] I would echo my peers point on potentially wanting
[3:25:07] to do additional public engagement for how we're
[3:25:09] building the list that we're going to review in April
[3:25:13] I am immediately thinking the Charlottesville area trail
[3:25:16] runners cats.
[3:25:17] I'm not sure if they were county acted.
[3:25:19] And you know, it's weird to give a family.
[3:25:21] So much power but like directly communicating
[3:25:24] with the lawns owners who are kind
[3:25:26] of the weird natural hub of running culture
[3:25:29] in Charlottesville and Albemarle would probably
[3:25:31] be relevant because they could they
[3:25:33] could do a lot of the community engaged
[3:25:36] and on the county's behalf.
[3:25:39] And so i just might recommend those two things.
[3:25:42] The thing I do want to say, though, because I i'm a runner.
[3:25:47] I love these trails that we're all talking
[3:25:50] about I want us to be cautious.
[3:25:53] And this is more an outbreak not for you.
[3:25:55] This is more for the board right To remember
[3:25:59] that what we're talking about with potentially adding them
[3:26:01] on in April of next year is subordinating
[3:26:05] the political process that we've already created.
[3:26:08] It is extracting that from residential or control
[3:26:12] through the current to thirds majority request process
[3:26:16] that we've created.
[3:26:17] And sometimes that is prudent.
[3:26:20] Dick Woods Road east of Ortman, is a great example.
[3:26:24] Those residents a lot of them want
[3:26:26] it paved because they've built very beautiful homes that they
[3:26:28] want to not have to drive five miles to get to,
[3:26:31] but it is a tremendously essential community amenity.
[3:26:36] I am fine with taking that out of their hands,
[3:26:39] and I reckon with the fact that that
[3:26:41] means I'm subordinating their political power
[3:26:45] And on the other hand, I will remind this board the people who
[3:26:49] voted on it last year, right?
[3:26:51] Like I, I sat with a constituent for half an hour
[3:26:55] and listened to him talk about how
[3:26:57] he had been trying to get Glendalough Road paved for 50
[3:27:00] years and how multiple residents on Glendora Road
[3:27:03] felt like they were were second class
[3:27:06] citizens because they're a rural and their road wasn't paved.
[3:27:11] Glendora Road was also so an important trail running amenity
[3:27:16] Glendora Road and the King drop off at christ Church
[3:27:21] have long been one of the highest priorities.
[3:27:23] Trail runs in this county like that
[3:27:26] is a thing people still do it.
[3:27:28] But I don't know if people are running on Glendora Road as much
[3:27:32] So there is a balancing of of considerations that I would just
[3:27:37] really encourage this board to take serious and think about
[3:27:40] as we're moving toward April and as we're
[3:27:43] getting excited about what we're adding to this list.
[3:27:46] Remember that we're taking it out of resident hands sometimes
[3:27:49] that does have real considerations for their lives.
[3:27:53] Oh I also always try and talk about like the importance of I
[3:27:57] agree.
[3:27:57] We should if we're going to talk about the rural area
[3:28:00] as a public amenity, we should talk about it
[3:28:01] as a public amenity.
[3:28:03] I would encourage before April of next year, we try and walk
[3:28:09] or run every one of these roads because I would suggest
[3:28:13] that some of them you might not be
[3:28:14] able to do because you literally can't park somewhere fourth,
[3:28:18] depending on which one they are.
[3:28:20] And so like to take the charge seriously
[3:28:23] as we're thinking about this like consider
[3:28:25] what we are doing before we add something to a list,
[3:28:29] because it's exciting and because we all
[3:28:31] care about running.
[3:28:32] I love running and constantly in search
[3:28:35] of a better running for my circuits and it
[3:28:41] it is something that we just have
[3:28:42] to take our stewardship really seriously on this.
[3:28:45] That's all I have Supervisor Missal, Thank you.
[3:28:48] And I first considered being on this board.
[3:28:51] I was speaking to the previous, I
[3:28:52] think it was the previous supervisor in this position.
[3:28:54] And he said one of the main things you're
[3:28:56] going to be hearing about is to pay for
[3:28:58] or not to pay that will be one of the main issues
[3:29:01] that you address.
[3:29:03] So I kind of tried to come up to,
[3:29:05] you know, my learning curve to try to understand
[3:29:07] what that really meant.
[3:29:08] And I've spoken to supervisor Prude's comments,
[3:29:13] various sides of the issue.
[3:29:15] Right?
[3:29:15] There are people who live on a road that's
[3:29:17] a recreational road that are passionate about keeping
[3:29:20] it gravel and not paving it.
[3:29:22] There are others who are passionate about paving
[3:29:24] and want to keep that, you know, have that.
[3:29:26] So I'm a little uncomfortable with taking that away from I
[3:29:30] think you said the citizens decision making process.
[3:29:34] I think it's worth thinking about it.
[3:29:35] I'm not against it.
[3:29:36] I mean, all the good reasons that all the other peers have
[3:29:40] mentioned, I think is right on.
[3:29:42] But you know, we're talking about people who potentially
[3:29:46] have runners like supervisor prude or others
[3:29:49] who come from another location to run on a road
[3:29:52] that they live on.
[3:29:54] And you're essentially saying that that road that you live on
[3:29:57] will remain gravel for six years.
[3:29:59] Right before it becomes eligible to be paved.
[3:30:02] There could be a lot of things that occur within that six year
[3:30:05] period that might change.
[3:30:06] It need to be paved or not paved I don't know.
[3:30:09] But we're essentially saying we're
[3:30:11] taking that out of the mix.
[3:30:12] Right?
[3:30:12] That's we're being sort of we're saying this is it now there may
[3:30:16] be some that it's an easy one.
[3:30:18] But I just have heart.
[3:30:19] I'm having a hard time getting my head around how
[3:30:21] we do this in a way that's objective
[3:30:23] And also consider it in consideration of those
[3:30:27] that live on the roads.
[3:30:30] I'm not going to get into the list of roads.
[3:30:32] There were a couple that were mentioned,
[3:30:33] a couple that weren't mentioned that i think probably
[3:30:35] should be added that I've heard of people saying.
[3:30:37] I also agree.
[3:30:38] And just echo the comments You know, I made a note of I
[3:30:41] think you received this list from the Charles
[3:30:45] for biking Association.
[3:30:46] Was it or.
[3:30:46] Yes I actually went to the civil, both the website
[3:30:50] and the websites, and I went through their list
[3:30:53] for recommending gravel biking and running routes
[3:30:55] And this is how I came up with the list.
[3:30:56] So it's going to be a challenge, I think,
[3:30:58] to try to figure out how we are objectively
[3:31:03] comprehensive in asking and weighing
[3:31:06] both the folks who live there.
[3:31:09] And those that want these for recreational purposes asking
[3:31:14] enough of each side to understand really
[3:31:17] what that balances are.
[3:31:18] So I'll just say that I know this is a work in progress.
[3:31:22] I'm fully behind this idea.
[3:31:24] I think it's great that we're finally, talking about it.
[3:31:27] I just find it to be a bit of a challenge
[3:31:29] as we try to measure the input from our constituents,
[3:31:34] supervisors Office Development.
[3:31:35] Thank you for your presentation.
[3:31:38] I was improvising.
[3:31:39] Missal I'm concerned about this in that I want the residents
[3:31:45] to have their views heard.
[3:31:47] We seem to have they have worked out.
[3:31:50] And I think it was passed and what 4 or 5 years ago where
[3:31:54] you have to have two thirds of the people who live along
[3:31:56] there have to approve it.
[3:31:57] I've experienced that in my own district
[3:32:00] where some didn't get approved and others got approved.
[3:32:03] And that has seemed to work out well.
[3:32:06] It took the onus off of us and it made the neighbors talk
[3:32:10] to each other and they agreed.
[3:32:13] I understood about the running, about the biking
[3:32:16] You have people, though, are they
[3:32:19] going to concentrate and areas where or it's not paved?
[3:32:24] I don't know where they don't live.
[3:32:27] You know, they're using it as a track to get around.
[3:32:31] I don't know I think we need to consider the impacts I'm not
[3:32:36] saying I'm against everything, but I
[3:32:39] know Supervisor Mallett mentioned a couple of roads
[3:32:45] that really piqued my interest.
[3:32:46] I know she mentioned Deca and my understand
[3:32:49] is that we disapprove that because you didn't have
[3:32:52] two thirds of the people wanting that paved,
[3:32:55] so that was disapproved and that won't come up again
[3:32:58] for, I guess, six years.
[3:32:59] Is that correct It was ineligible.
[3:33:02] Decided by Veeder, which is why is vdot
[3:33:04] said they're not going to pay that.
[3:33:06] It doesn't qualify.
[3:33:07] OK.
[3:33:08] So not about the neighbors.
[3:33:09] It was just they we can't do it.
[3:33:11] So I know it needs to be on the maintained list
[3:33:13] and off the table.
[3:33:14] Right.
[3:33:14] And I do know that the neighbors were weighing in on that one.
[3:33:18] You also mentioned stony Point and turkeys sag.
[3:33:21] You're talking about the portion in between 20 and 231
[3:33:25] where it goes over that southwest mountains.
[3:33:29] This is a list four provided by the shelter area trail runners.
[3:33:32] OK.
[3:33:33] I would definitely i like to see that because I
[3:33:36] don't know of any other unpaved area for Stony point.
[3:33:40] If it's Stony point pass.
[3:33:41] And also Turkey sag.
[3:33:42] So what I was thinking of, you have all these roads and even
[3:33:46] the roads that were added.
[3:33:48] I'd like to see them on a map.
[3:33:50] I'd like to see where they are and what section,
[3:33:53] we're talking about, because the actual Stony Point road that's
[3:33:57] all paved We're not in Turkey.
[3:33:59] SAG is, is mostly paved also, except for going
[3:34:05] over the mountains.
[3:34:05] And same thing.
[3:34:06] It's not it's Stony Point pass.
[3:34:08] It goes over the amounts that will probably never
[3:34:11] be paved because it's too narrow, it's Winge.
[3:34:14] It doesn't meet the standards and anyway,
[3:34:18] so that that got me thinking that I think
[3:34:21] I'd like to see where these roads or section of roads
[3:34:24] are we talking about the whole road.
[3:34:26] A section of the road.
[3:34:27] But I'd like to see where they are in a math,
[3:34:29] I believe there was a map included in the materials
[3:34:32] packet for you as well.
[3:34:33] But I'm happy to make another map if you
[3:34:35] need more details as well.
[3:34:36] OK.
[3:34:37] I am sorry that I missed that because you had a map.
[3:34:41] But not the extra ones that I listed on.
[3:34:43] Yes.
[3:34:44] And that to you.
[3:34:45] It was just the map with the road Oh, yeah, Yeah.
[3:34:48] No, those are.
[3:34:49] No, I'm talking about with any other ones that are suggested
[3:34:54] Those they might be good.
[3:34:56] They may not be good.
[3:34:58] But it's something that is worth in my opinion,
[3:35:01] continuing to discuss and getting a little more detail
[3:35:06] of you know, I where the roads are located
[3:35:11] because I think those are the only two
[3:35:12] Stony point and Turkey side that are in my district.
[3:35:15] I think all the others are in I don't know which district
[3:35:21] some of my garden, some in my, some in yours.
[3:35:23] Excellent.
[3:35:24] Thank you.
[3:35:25] I done i would just echo the point that Supervisor Prewitt
[3:35:29] raised and supervisor missile when
[3:35:33] we're kind of discussing it.
[3:35:34] And the idea of keeping it in its current state, that
[3:35:37] appeals to could appeal to the residents
[3:35:39] and could appeal to this other group
[3:35:41] But as soon as you give yourself the authority
[3:35:43] to do that, you can do the reverse to which then takes,
[3:35:47] oh well, we're going to go ahead and decide for paving regardless
[3:35:51] of what the residents think.
[3:35:53] If we deem that decision So if we take the decision out
[3:35:55] of the residential piece, out of it, for one,
[3:35:59] you got to do it for all or else you're
[3:36:02] kind of Yeah yeah, kind of rigging it,
[3:36:04] if you know what I mean.
[3:36:06] I couldn't imagine you know, like when
[3:36:09] the residents and the other groups
[3:36:10] agree That seems to be a nice situation.
[3:36:14] If we all want that road ourselves to remain gravel.
[3:36:18] But if we get into a situation where the residents want it.
[3:36:21] And this other group who doesn't live there
[3:36:23] does what you know, vice versa, that's a problem
[3:36:27] And then we have to get into a conversation about,
[3:36:29] well, which is more important.
[3:36:31] Your daily travel to and from your home
[3:36:33] on a public road or the recreation for this other group.
[3:36:37] And I'm not if the Rio district residents ask me that question,
[3:36:41] I know how I'd answer that.
[3:36:43] Bleak House road residents if they came out here and said
[3:36:46] You're going to take our ability of living along this road
[3:36:49] and allow this other input to weigh into it
[3:36:52] I know what commentary I'd be getting
[3:36:53] at that podium from Bleak House Road
[3:36:55] except said they'd be on the same side.
[3:36:57] So that would be fair.
[3:36:58] But okay Yeah, you say so.
[3:37:01] Like that's the only time that scenario is going to come up.
[3:37:04] But you know, the first one out of the gate
[3:37:06] won't be that scenario right?
[3:37:08] We've seen it happen in other places.
[3:37:10] So at some point the board, if we go.
[3:37:14] This road and I'm not, you know look, I'm not going to I'm
[3:37:18] not trying to say that at your points, are there?
[3:37:21] I disagree with the points.
[3:37:22] I'm not even offer counterpoint.
[3:37:23] It's the awareness.
[3:37:25] Look, I don't run unless something's chasing me.
[3:37:27] I go out of my way to make sure I'm not
[3:37:29] running most of the time.
[3:37:31] So I used to run.
[3:37:32] I just can't do it anymore.
[3:37:34] Right?
[3:37:35] And I didn't like it then.
[3:37:36] But the idea is that, okay, I get it.
[3:37:39] I understand.
[3:37:40] And I think it's great at these roads when the residents agree.
[3:37:43] And that group agrees.
[3:37:44] Phenomenal But it's life is just not that clean.
[3:37:48] And if at some point it's in front of this board
[3:37:51] and we have to start nuancing a policy where
[3:37:54] we say more than a third of the residents
[3:37:57] x plus whatever percentage of this group equals
[3:38:02] do or don't that's too squishy for me.
[3:38:05] And I'm going to have to choose residence
[3:38:08] on the road advocacy group for whatever the advocacy is.
[3:38:12] I know where I'm going to end up on that conversation
[3:38:15] So I'm saying that today because I want,
[3:38:17] you know, we have a chance to have people give us
[3:38:19] feedback on this discussion And I
[3:38:22] think that's a good one to hear some feedback on I know where
[3:38:25] the advocacy group is but, you know,
[3:38:27] the bleak House road members aren't listening
[3:38:30] on this conversation today The residents who
[3:38:33] are out there who may be one, a road
[3:38:35] paved aren't here listening necessarily to this today.
[3:38:39] Maybe they are.
[3:38:41] And it's going to introduce their opinions about how
[3:38:43] they feel their public road is being
[3:38:45] used for recreational purposes.
[3:38:46] Right.
[3:38:47] And those opinions haven't been discussed yet.
[3:38:49] So, again, all of it to just endorse
[3:38:52] the idea that we need to be cautious and careful in this.
[3:38:56] And sometimes be careful what you wish for.
[3:38:59] Yeah Are there any other comments or questions?
[3:39:03] This is presentation.
[3:39:04] No action today.
[3:39:05] Can I take one more comment?
[3:39:06] Yeah, I've just when people come to a gravel road,
[3:39:11] they're buying a house and a gravel road.
[3:39:13] Yeah.
[3:39:14] So I guess that's just sort of my last thought.
[3:39:17] But points.
[3:39:18] Well taken.
[3:39:18] Yeah.
[3:39:19] And some of them would say I've lived
[3:39:20] on this gravel road for 30 years wanting it to be paved
[3:39:23] and it's never been.
[3:39:24] I'm sick of the dust Yeah, I had one person literally
[3:39:27] were talking about paving or not being the road.
[3:39:30] And I had somebody in the same household
[3:39:32] show up in support of paving and somebody
[3:39:35] in that same household emailed me saying, I'm told,
[3:39:38] don't do that.
[3:39:39] Yeah.
[3:39:39] If i will chair just add one more thought, which is I
[3:39:43] think we're all I think there's a lot of interest
[3:39:46] from the public in engaging on this.
[3:39:48] And like even me, as I'm expressing like hesitancy
[3:39:51] about this issue, I'm like excited about it
[3:39:54] because because this is a really huge part of comprehensive plan.
[3:40:01] How do we define cultural amenities, right?
[3:40:02] This is a huge part of our cultural amenities as a county.
[3:40:05] It's a really big like identity component of this county.
[3:40:09] And it doesn't feel like there is much government energy
[3:40:14] or effort around it.
[3:40:17] And I think that is maybe the the void
[3:40:21] that that these that these people are shouting into
[3:40:24] because, you know, we haven't said, we're
[3:40:27] going to pay adequate roads.
[3:40:28] So we don't have the entire UVA club
[3:40:31] in here lining the the bleachers, which
[3:40:33] is what would happen.
[3:40:34] You would have 100 people in here
[3:40:36] if we tried to pave Dick Woods Road
[3:40:40] And so I might just say it would be nice
[3:40:44] if we could engage with this issue of recreational road use
[3:40:48] and how we engage and incentivize
[3:40:50] and build this as a county Outside of this conversation.
[3:40:54] And it would be it would be really
[3:40:55] and there was the recommendation that you read off
[3:40:58] to that effect.
[3:40:59] I think that would serve and scratch a lot of the edge
[3:41:03] that I think we're hearing from the public on this.
[3:41:07] Like alberich doesn't have to be the channeling function for all
[3:41:10] of recreational or rural activity.
[3:41:12] And in Albemarle County, we protect our IRA.
[3:41:16] Yeah, yeah, I will protect him from your ire
[3:41:19] because we've stood together being run over
[3:41:22] by the speeders a number of times.
[3:41:25] I do have one thing that I know well you get to me,
[3:41:27] I think somebody else has some go.
[3:41:29] Yeah, and we got to get going because we've
[3:41:31] got to get in a close meeting.
[3:41:32] So quick comments.
[3:41:32] Supervisor Malik Good comments.
[3:41:35] This is a quality of life issue.
[3:41:37] And we have missed the boat.
[3:41:40] So far.
[3:41:41] On what Roanoke has made an enormous success
[3:41:43] of being the first ranked in the Commonwealth
[3:41:46] for outdoor recreation and our CVB
[3:41:49] is pretending that they are doing all this advertising.
[3:41:51] But if we are destroying the facilities
[3:41:54] that we're trying to draw people to, we are killing ourselves.
[3:41:57] Back in 2007, going door to door and Edwards Road people
[3:42:01] complained to me about their neighbors who
[3:42:04] said they moved in here and told me that their realtor promised
[3:42:07] them that the road to be paved and 26
[3:42:09] and I don't want it paved.
[3:42:11] And that's how far back my personal experience goes
[3:42:14] with that particular stretch.
[3:42:16] That was chosen right away in 2008 because of the use
[3:42:21] by the high school kids for practice.
[3:42:24] So lots of other people benefited
[3:42:26] from that I think it's perfectly fine to consider used decisions
[3:42:32] made by the board.
[3:42:33] There are lots of use decisions made in every other aspect
[3:42:36] of local government.
[3:42:37] So people have said, why is it recreation
[3:42:41] funded based some more on the number of users instead
[3:42:44] of organized sports and the ones who get all the headlines when
[3:42:47] they're probably I don't even know how many
[3:42:50] hundreds of one Walkers, writers and runners who
[3:42:55] like to use these kinds of facilities as opposed
[3:42:57] to kids who, you know, somebody who does something else.
[3:43:00] I don't know the answer to that, but it's a question
[3:43:02] that was raised to me.
[3:43:05] There.
[3:43:06] One thing I forgot to say earlier there
[3:43:09] are many roads on that paving list that
[3:43:11] have fewer than 80 cars a day.
[3:43:13] And that, to me, is 1,000,005 from paving roads between 60
[3:43:19] and 70 cars per day.
[3:43:20] That money could be spent in other ways.
[3:43:23] And we have finally, the authority to do that.
[3:43:26] So I would just throw that out there, and ask you all
[3:43:28] to consider that long before April,
[3:43:30] because this is been going around, around,
[3:43:33] around for a long, long time.
[3:43:36] Thank you.
[3:43:36] You.
[3:43:37] Last comment.
[3:43:38] Yeah, I just wanted to say that I i'm
[3:43:41] not against looking at all these roads and any other roads that
[3:43:44] are added, but I think we need to take in
[3:43:48] with the community things.
[3:43:49] But also what the residents think
[3:43:51] and maybe just do A11 by one because I'm not sure
[3:43:55] that all of these the other ones that Supervisor Malik suggests
[3:44:01] that the residents may be just fine not having it not having it
[3:44:07] paved so thank you.
[3:44:10] Thank you.
[3:44:10] And I also agree with the flow charts That was wonderful.
[3:44:13] Yeah.
[3:44:14] To stuff.
[3:44:15] Good stuff.
[3:44:15] Thank you All right.
[3:44:18] Board We're going to move to the item 13, the 2026 Thomas
[3:44:23] Jefferson Planning District Commission Regional Solid Waste
[3:44:26] Management Plan, and Jamie is going to introduce us.
[3:44:30] And we also have Isabella O'Brien from the t J PTC
[3:44:32] with us Good day board.
[3:44:38] My name is Jamie Powers from Climate Action program
[3:44:40] Manager with Elmira County.
[3:44:42] I'll offer just a few brief comments to introduce
[3:44:45] your presentation today.
[3:44:47] On our way to getting to zero net greenhouse gas
[3:44:51] emissions in 2050, solid waste composition in landfill
[3:44:55] comprises about 2% of that total.
[3:44:58] So a very small amount in the grand scheme of things However,
[3:45:01] solid waste is a gateway issue for community members
[3:45:05] to become more involved in climate
[3:45:07] action and other environmental initiative.
[3:45:10] It's also something that we know through our community engagement
[3:45:13] feedback surveys show that it's something
[3:45:16] that the community cares deeply about, as is evidenced
[3:45:19] through the legislative principles
[3:45:22] that you saw earlier today So anything we can do to enhance,
[3:45:26] improve our solid waste management system
[3:45:29] is up for offers opportunities for deeper, engaged mint
[3:45:33] in partnership with community members
[3:45:36] in achieving all of our climate and environmental goals.
[3:45:38] So with that I welcome Isabella O'Brien,
[3:45:41] environmental planner with the PTC Thank you.
[3:45:47] Good afternoon, Chair.
[3:45:48] Galloway All these down.
[3:45:49] OK.
[3:45:49] And Isabella, there's a little button
[3:45:51] if you want to lower that so we can see the podium.
[3:45:54] But you're fine too, if you're getting okay.
[3:45:57] I think it's okay for me if it's okay for you.
[3:45:59] Thank you. you for having me this evening, as mentioned,
[3:46:02] I'm Isabella O'Brien and a regional planner,
[3:46:04] too, at the Thomas Jefferson Planning District Commission.
[3:46:07] And tonight.
[3:46:08] I'll provide a brief overview of the 2026 Solid Waste Management
[3:46:11] Plan.
[3:46:12] Update highlight the findings relevant to Albemarle and review
[3:46:15] the next steps before Plan Adoption.
[3:46:19] The solid Waste planning Unit includes Albemarle County,
[3:46:21] the city of Charlottesville, Savannah and Green County.
[3:46:25] The t.J. Peabody staff coordinates the activities,
[3:46:27] the state requires of our solid waste planning
[3:46:30] unit on behalf of these localities as a planning unit,
[3:46:34] we have two primary responsibilities
[3:46:36] the annual recycling rate reporting due to Q
[3:46:40] and maintaining our regional solid waste management
[3:46:43] plan State regulations require that this plan be updated
[3:46:46] and maintained every five years with the next update due to D
[3:46:50] EMQQ in October of this year The plan is guided by Virginia's
[3:46:55] waste management hierarchy as stated in the Associated
[3:46:58] Planning regulations.
[3:46:59] The preferred approach is to reduce waste
[3:47:01] before it's generated, followed by reuse recycling
[3:47:04] and composting and then disposal options,
[3:47:07] such as landfilling and energy recovery
[3:47:10] are considered after those opportunities have
[3:47:12] been evaluated.
[3:47:14] So state regulations also establish the required contents
[3:47:18] of the plan.
[3:47:19] This update evaluates existing facilities and services, waste
[3:47:23] and recycling trends.
[3:47:24] Future needs.
[3:47:25] Public outreach efforts and implementation strategy
[3:47:28] for the next 20 years.
[3:47:31] It also includes future population and waste projections
[3:47:34] funding considerations and strategies for maintaining
[3:47:36] compliance with Virginia's recycling requirements
[3:47:41] So as mentioned, one of the plan's major components
[3:47:44] is the annual recycling rates And Virginia requires
[3:47:47] our planning unit to maintain a minimum recycling rate of 25%
[3:47:52] based on our cumulative population.
[3:47:54] And TCP staff coordinates the collection
[3:47:58] and reporting of this recycling data from local governments
[3:48:01] public facilities and participating reporting partners
[3:48:04] around the region It is important to note
[3:48:07] that the recycling rate is based on reporting requirements that
[3:48:10] are established by dequeue.
[3:48:12] The process does not capture all waste
[3:48:14] management activities such as construction demolition
[3:48:17] and debris and private haulers and recycling facilities
[3:48:21] are encouraged but not required by state code
[3:48:24] to report their data to us However,
[3:48:27] local governments can obtain that information
[3:48:29] through local ordinances or permitting requirements,
[3:48:31] and as a result the recycling rate
[3:48:35] should be viewed more as a useful compliance
[3:48:37] metric and trend metric rather than a complete picture of all
[3:48:41] of the recycling and diversion occurring
[3:48:43] within a locality The recycling rate is calculated by comparing
[3:48:49] documented recycling tonnage to documented municipal solid waste
[3:48:53] disposal and there are credits up to 5%
[3:48:57] that D EMQQ provides for recycling
[3:48:58] of non municipal solid waste, such as construction,
[3:49:01] demolition and debris, or for source
[3:49:04] reduction and reuse programs.
[3:49:08] So based on the data that we collect for the recycling
[3:49:11] report, the region consistent only
[3:49:14] does exceed the required rate between 2021 and 24
[3:49:19] at the regional rate ranged from 34 to 41%.
[3:49:23] And you'll notice that Charlottesville and Albemarle
[3:49:25] are reported together because much of their data
[3:49:28] comes from the relevant authorities serving
[3:49:30] both jurisdictions and based on their data, information
[3:49:33] from the city's waste contract waste and recycling hauler.
[3:49:37] Some private businesses and UVA.
[3:49:39] The reported recycling rate ranged from approximately 41
[3:49:43] to 49% during that same period.
[3:49:46] And because private facilities and haulers,
[3:49:50] the reporting is voluntary, some of the recycling activity
[3:49:54] may not be captured if haulers manage
[3:49:56] their waste, that private facilities
[3:49:57] or haul it outside of our region.
[3:50:01] And as a result, understanding local performance
[3:50:03] requires looking beyond the recycling rate
[3:50:05] alone, especially in the more rural portions of our planning
[3:50:08] unit.
[3:50:10] So in this chart, you can see some of those reporting
[3:50:13] challenges, differences between jurisdictions
[3:50:15] can reflect differences in data availability and reporting
[3:50:18] practices as much as differences in recycling,
[3:50:21] participation for localities with more activity
[3:50:24] is handled through private sector haulers
[3:50:26] or facilities may appear to recycle less or manage
[3:50:28] less waste overall because fewer materials are captured.
[3:50:31] In the scope of this report the Charlottesville, Albemarle area
[3:50:37] reports a per capita disposal rate
[3:50:39] that's generally lower than the national average based
[3:50:42] on the latest data from EPA, which
[3:50:44] is 2018, which may point to some of these data gaps.
[3:50:50] So so the planning process began in late 2020
[3:50:54] for and over the course of that process,
[3:50:56] we've held five technical advisory committee meetings
[3:50:59] with your local staff and stakeholders.
[3:51:02] The Technical Advisory Committee was instrument to the plans.
[3:51:05] Update staff provided local detail
[3:51:08] about the locally specific implement actions
[3:51:10] and reviewed the draft planning in advance of the public comment
[3:51:13] period.
[3:51:15] Public engagement occurred throughout the process.
[3:51:17] We should information through PVC channels, locality,
[3:51:20] newsletters and collected information
[3:51:23] through a public survey and workshop.
[3:51:25] We also collected feedback from the community
[3:51:27] during a 30 day public comment period.
[3:51:29] This August.
[3:51:31] And there's also the opportunity to share comments
[3:51:33] and in advance of or during a public hearing
[3:51:36] held tomorrow at the PVC Commission meeting at 7 p.m.
[3:51:41] before local adoptions Later the September as part
[3:51:47] of our public survey we received 257 responses
[3:51:51] across the planning unit, including approximately 97
[3:51:54] from Albemarle County residents and across the region.
[3:51:58] We saw several themes.
[3:52:00] There's a desire for greater transparency regarding
[3:52:03] what happens to collected materials,
[3:52:06] improve convenience for recycling and composting
[3:52:09] and expanded diversion opportunities.
[3:52:11] And these themes help to shape both the regional goals
[3:52:14] and locally specific actions included in the plan
[3:52:17] And if you're curious, you can see the detailed survey response
[3:52:21] via the link here and also in the plan appendices
[3:52:27] Overall, Albemarle County residents
[3:52:29] expressed strong support for expanding recycling, composting
[3:52:32] and waste diversion opportunities
[3:52:34] while identifying access, convenience and transparency
[3:52:37] as key priorities for survey respondents consistently
[3:52:41] requested additional recycling and compost drop off locations
[3:52:44] particularly in Crosby, Northern Albemarle and areas
[3:52:49] farther from existing facilities residents
[3:52:52] also demonstrated strong interest
[3:52:54] in more accessible and affordable composting options.
[3:52:58] So while some private curbside compost collection services
[3:53:01] are available many residents indicated
[3:53:04] that the cost remains a barrier to participation
[3:53:06] And as a result, residents expressed interest
[3:53:09] in expanding composting opportunities,
[3:53:12] including lower cost curbside community composting,
[3:53:15] drop off options and other county
[3:53:17] supported programs Additional feedback highlighted interest
[3:53:21] in expanding collection programs for specialty materials,
[3:53:25] improving recycling and composting access.
[3:53:27] Specifically at multifamily and rental and business properties
[3:53:32] and supporting waste reduction and reuse initiatives in line
[3:53:37] with the themes from the regional feedback respondents
[3:53:41] frequently called for clearer and more detailed guidance
[3:53:45] on what can and cannot be recycled,
[3:53:48] especially for plastics.
[3:53:49] Compostable products, batteries, electronics
[3:53:52] and other hard to recycle materials
[3:53:55] There was concern about contamination and wish cycling
[3:53:58] happening and they just wanted better educational resources
[3:54:02] to improve diversion and trust and transparency
[3:54:06] was another major theme, asking for more information about where
[3:54:10] recyclables go after collection and whether materials
[3:54:13] are actually being recycled All right
[3:54:20] so the draft plan organize.
[3:54:22] It's the implementation efforts into three focus areas
[3:54:27] data and information sharing and planning and waste diversion.
[3:54:32] The regional goals address many of the issues identified
[3:54:35] through public engagement and each locality
[3:54:38] submitted local locally specific objectives
[3:54:41] to support each of these goals.
[3:54:44] This was this was part of the focus of the technical Advisory
[3:54:47] Committee team members ensuring alignment with each localities
[3:54:50] programs and resources and Albemarle
[3:54:54] provided 14 of the 60 total locally specific actions
[3:54:58] in the plan for Albemarle implementation actions focused
[3:55:03] on expanding public education and outreach programs, improving
[3:55:07] waste and recycling data collection, reporting benefit
[3:55:10] action and public transparency conducting
[3:55:14] countywide assessments of solid waste system capacity
[3:55:17] and future service needs.
[3:55:19] Increasing diversion of priority materials,
[3:55:22] such as food waste, cardboard, textiles and construction debris
[3:55:26] through targeted programs supporting
[3:55:28] circular, circular economy initiatives
[3:55:32] and regional recycling market development,
[3:55:35] and then improving equitable access to waste
[3:55:37] and recycling services So the key changes from the last plan
[3:55:44] compared to the 2021 update, this plan
[3:55:46] includes a more detailed analysis
[3:55:49] of the recycling and disposal trends and expanded
[3:55:52] public engagement process and locally specific implementation
[3:55:56] actions The appendices include all of our public engagement
[3:56:00] materials adoption resolutions.
[3:56:02] Once approved a technical report that was developed by a master
[3:56:07] student at UVA School of Public Policy that focused
[3:56:10] on rural waste diversion opportunities,
[3:56:13] as well as the detailed implementation
[3:56:15] plan and the draft plan is currently
[3:56:20] available on our website and following today's presentation,
[3:56:24] the PDC will hold the required public hearing,
[3:56:27] incorporate any final feedback and return the plan
[3:56:31] to local boards, The City Council and the PVC commission
[3:56:34] for Adoption before being submitted to THQ in October
[3:56:40] So here is the link to our website with all of the updated
[3:56:42] planets cereals and thank you for your time and participation
[3:56:46] throughout this process.
[3:56:47] I'm happy to answer any questions Thank you.
[3:56:50] Supervisor Malik, thank you very much.
[3:56:53] I really appreciate the goals that you enumerated,
[3:56:56] particularly the education one and the guidance document
[3:57:00] and know our select committee is working hard to refine.
[3:57:03] And I know they've shared it with you for comments with
[3:57:05] your university intern to be able to share with
[3:57:09] the university students All 30,000 of them too,
[3:57:12] would be a really great help as far as the whole thing.
[3:57:16] I am continually frustrated by the lack of your hands being
[3:57:19] tied by the lack of reporting.
[3:57:21] So I guess my future quest, My question for future research.
[3:57:24] Mr. County Attorney, is, do we have the authority to require
[3:57:29] haulers to be registered, licensed,
[3:57:31] pay their business taxes at our county,
[3:57:33] and we required to report their tonnage ?
[3:57:35] Right.
[3:57:36] And as I said before, I'll need to take a look into that.
[3:57:38] Yes.
[3:57:38] Thank you.
[3:57:39] You.
[3:57:39] There are examples in Arlington and Loudoun counties
[3:57:43] of where they have hollow requirements in place to require
[3:57:46] reporting based on the size.
[3:57:48] And then there's an example in the city of Alexandria
[3:57:52] where they have permitting requirements
[3:57:55] So oftentimes, I know Albemarle County already
[3:57:58] has a permitting process for all of their haulers
[3:58:01] but requiring annual updates to that, that also
[3:58:04] requires data being shared.
[3:58:05] So there are examples that exist within the state of Virginia
[3:58:09] Well, the discrepancy of our SWC having 100 businesses crossing
[3:58:13] the scale when we have 15 or 20 who are licensed,
[3:58:16] that was a shocking statistic.
[3:58:18] So I hope we will make some progress on that.
[3:58:19] Thank you very much.
[3:58:21] Supervisor Duncan No comments, really.
[3:58:24] This is really great.
[3:58:25] And it's of interesting.
[3:58:27] Supervisor pruitt, this is my second bite
[3:58:30] at this presentation.
[3:58:31] And so I'm going to not make any further comments.
[3:58:35] Supervisor And you'll get your third department supervisor.
[3:58:38] Whistle Thank you.
[3:58:39] Thanks.
[3:58:40] For the presentation.
[3:58:41] Was really off.
[3:58:42] Was a lot of information there.
[3:58:43] So a couple of questions.
[3:58:45] One is I have to find my notes my question.
[3:58:50] So when I'm sorry.
[3:58:53] Forgive me.
[3:58:54] I'm on Medicare here Sorry.
[3:59:01] But I had this in front of me.
[3:59:04] OK.
[3:59:05] So public feedback public survey, public feedback.
[3:59:08] It seemed to me that there was a lot of request for education,
[3:59:12] all opportunities, additional not
[3:59:14] a lot of requests for a specific facilities to be added.
[3:59:20] Is that fair?
[3:59:22] Let me go back.
[3:59:23] But there was one that actually talked about expanding recycling
[3:59:26] opportunities.
[3:59:28] Yes.
[3:59:28] So particular in northern Albemarle along Route 29
[3:59:32] and in Crosby there were some requests for additional drop
[3:59:36] off locations just for convenience use.
[3:59:39] They noted that Ivy or McIntyre was a barrier.
[3:59:42] It's not really on there commuting path.
[3:59:44] Got it.
[3:59:45] And so did that.
[3:59:45] Did those show up in your original implementation plan?
[3:59:50] I just I may not have seen them.
[3:59:52] It's just a you don't have to answer now.
[3:59:54] I'm just making sure that that's all kind
[3:59:57] of captured in that piece.
[3:59:58] I think that was one thing that stood out to me.
[4:00:00] I know there was a locality specific item for Albemarle that
[4:00:03] was to increase accessibility of facilities,
[4:00:07] but I don't know if it had nailed down
[4:00:09] any specific locations.
[4:00:11] Okay.
[4:00:11] That's good to know.
[4:00:13] And then the other.
[4:00:15] I guess is these are great plans.
[4:00:18] This is a pretty massive lift, I think.
[4:00:22] What are we using to review the success metrics?
[4:00:26] Are there.
[4:00:27] What are to the outcomes?
[4:00:28] Like how often do you check it?
[4:00:30] How often do you say this implementation plan is working
[4:00:33] or it needs to be amended, etc.?
[4:00:35] That is something that's been updated
[4:00:37] as a part of this process.
[4:00:38] This is my first time working through the whole process,
[4:00:41] but we've added a plan maintenance section which
[4:00:45] will encourage the technical advisory committee
[4:00:47] members to come back together on an annual basis
[4:00:50] to review Yeah, exactly.
[4:00:54] Okay, great.
[4:00:54] Thank you.
[4:00:55] That's it.
[4:00:55] And I know your staff has also really highlighted
[4:01:01] the need for a better baseline of our data.
[4:01:04] So how can we know if we're making system improvements
[4:01:07] if the recycling rate data isn't really
[4:01:09] reflective of the whole picture?
[4:01:11] Yeah.
[4:01:11] So there's efforts there as well.
[4:01:14] OK.
[4:01:15] Thank you.
[4:01:16] Supervisor Lipstick early is the actual plan
[4:01:19] to increase recycling to have more convenient centers
[4:01:27] throughout the county or to have a system in the urban ring
[4:01:32] where you actually collect trash and recyclables.
[4:01:38] So it's interesting because the plan is really
[4:01:41] guided by D. Q regulations and their main goal
[4:01:45] as part of this planning process is to look at our population,
[4:01:50] our waste projections to see if overall, as a state,
[4:01:54] we have enough landfill capacity to manage all
[4:01:56] of the waste happening here.
[4:01:57] So as that stands we're meeting the requirements of the plan.
[4:02:02] Does that make sense We're meeting
[4:02:04] the requirement of the plan.
[4:02:07] The D EMQQ has laid out what the future specifications will
[4:02:11] be implement station plan is to move higher
[4:02:15] in the waste management hierarchy,
[4:02:18] further towards waste reduction.
[4:02:20] So I got to go all the way to the top,
[4:02:22] but source reduction, reuse, recycling and composting
[4:02:25] and moving further away from landfilling
[4:02:28] But it's really up to your staff, your boards,
[4:02:32] your resources as to tell you implement that plan.
[4:02:36] Basically we're meeting the requirements
[4:02:38] as it stands for plan maintenance.
[4:02:40] OK, So you're meeting the minimum.
[4:02:42] Is there are there other counties.
[4:02:44] I know the city of Charlottesville,
[4:02:46] they have I don't know how many waste haulers does
[4:02:50] anyone know how many waste haulers they have,
[4:02:52] But they pick up everything.
[4:02:53] So they're able and I think they have recycling is that correct?
[4:02:56] They do.
[4:02:56] So they have a system there.
[4:02:58] What prevents us from doing something similar
[4:03:02] in the urban ring or at least in certain neighborhoods
[4:03:06] I think that would be a question for your local staff
[4:03:09] to determine.
[4:03:10] But I don't think there's anything really prohibiting
[4:03:13] that money.
[4:03:14] Yeah, it's that all need to stand up.
[4:03:17] The public works department, the rest
[4:03:19] of the way to do that because we don't have it.
[4:03:21] Yeah.
[4:03:21] Well, I mean i just because I've been a member of this committee
[4:03:26] and everything.
[4:03:27] And that's just I know the haulers.
[4:03:29] We're asking them information, but I
[4:03:31] understand that they don't have to give it.
[4:03:34] OK So there's no teeth there that we have a 25%
[4:03:39] minimum recycle link, right?
[4:03:41] So that's not anything to brag about.
[4:03:45] So states requirement pardon.
[4:03:46] That's the state's requirement We didn't set that in place.
[4:03:49] OK.
[4:03:50] So the state has a low requirement.
[4:03:51] Yes OK.
[4:03:52] It's 15%.
[4:03:54] It's 15%.
[4:03:55] And even more rural areas.
[4:03:57] So we're actually doing better than the state's 15%
[4:04:01] requirement.
[4:04:01] Okay.
[4:04:02] And the public feedback in Albemarle was 97 responses.
[4:04:07] Yeah In our community survey it was an online survey
[4:04:11] open for two months.
[4:04:12] Right.
[4:04:12] I remember Yeah.
[4:04:15] Okay.
[4:04:16] I, I mean, you've done a great job of summarizing everything
[4:04:20] and i appreciate that.
[4:04:21] I guess I would like to see maybe a more robust
[4:04:27] how can we recycle more?
[4:04:29] Because that's better for the environment, the climate,
[4:04:33] everything What can we do to actually start doing that?
[4:04:36] And and I know you say money, but I mean, this.
[4:04:40] I said money.
[4:04:40] You said money.
[4:04:41] Yeah.
[4:04:42] So I has a plan.
[4:04:43] It's back as a plan.
[4:04:44] We can certainly do that.
[4:04:46] That's not hers over here.
[4:04:47] Right.
[4:04:47] She doesn't work for us.
[4:04:48] It's helpful to remember I realized that right here's
[4:04:51] the guy.
[4:04:52] But it's like it's great to be able to have something
[4:04:55] more concrete that we're doing more at least toward recycling.
[4:05:00] And I know compost thing, you know my issue on that.
[4:05:02] But I mean, you know do little steps first
[4:05:06] where we get people recycling and they're
[4:05:08] in a mindset of recycling except for all the good people that
[4:05:12] go to the convenience centers and they
[4:05:13] recycle everyone else just throws it all in one bunch.
[4:05:17] Sorry.
[4:05:18] Gotcha.
[4:05:20] Good afternoon Jeffrey Dumas, director of Facilities
[4:05:22] Environmental services.
[4:05:24] I'm very excited to talk about our initiative
[4:05:27] to hire Matrix, the consulting firm that complete
[4:05:32] our organization assessment.
[4:05:34] They will be assisting us with evaluating our permitting system
[4:05:38] and our the potential for enhancing services
[4:05:43] in the urban areas.
[4:05:46] We intend to come back to executive leadership
[4:05:50] and provide the options and menu of options for fee
[4:05:56] based service or enhanced services in the very near future
[4:06:01] is a part of our department.
[4:06:02] All our FY 27 plan and to fulfill the strategic plan
[4:06:07] goal of analyzing an enhanced public
[4:06:10] works function for the county.
[4:06:13] Good Glad to hear that.
[4:06:14] Thank you.
[4:06:14] Know, the questions.
[4:06:15] I'll get I should have asked this question when
[4:06:19] we had it the first pass.
[4:06:20] And I didn't because I thought I missed it.
[4:06:22] But what are the dollars I my general
[4:06:25] take on the chart the regional implementation plan with the
[4:06:28] got the dollar signs on the far right was the more dollar
[4:06:31] signs, the more expensive.
[4:06:32] But then when I actually read through it some of the $2 signs
[4:06:36] were as low as $3,000.
[4:06:38] So what's the key for a dollar sign equates to under $3,000.
[4:06:43] There is a key and the key I've been looking for the key.
[4:06:47] I apologize.
[4:06:48] I might need to duplicate it because we
[4:06:50] have a section in the actual draft plan that describes
[4:06:54] that the implementation plan is in the appendices
[4:06:57] and has the key.
[4:06:58] But I think the actual implementation plan might not
[4:07:01] have the key.
[4:07:02] So that's it We put it in the appendices
[4:07:04] because I was looking through there going, maybe it's in there
[4:07:07] and the only reason I ask is because it confused me
[4:07:10] with some about the Morales dollar signs
[4:07:12] when you just look at them.
[4:07:13] There were a couple that went from 1 to 3
[4:07:15] and I'm like, Why is that Tripled the cost.
[4:07:18] But I didn't know the reference of the cost So if you could
[4:07:21] just I can send that along.
[4:07:22] I can't remember it off the top of my head
[4:07:24] and I'll be the this one dollars sign.
[4:07:26] Yeah, I can clarify it then as well.
[4:07:28] Might just be staff time and resources.
[4:07:31] And then I'll clarify tomorrow.
[4:07:33] And like I said, if it's, if it's embedded in the plan,
[4:07:36] I just I haven't been able to find it
[4:07:39] And one note as well is i got some additional feedback
[4:07:43] from Monroe County staff and the link that was sent to you
[4:07:46] all or the draft plan that's included in your packet,
[4:07:49] I believe, is the previous version
[4:07:50] since I had to share materials.
[4:07:52] A few weeks in advance.
[4:07:53] So if you go to our website link right here,
[4:07:57] there's just a few changes that were made.
[4:07:59] A substantial But can you just sentence.
[4:08:02] All right, got us all updated.
[4:08:05] Right.
[4:08:05] Perfect Well, thank you very much.
[4:08:08] Thank you.
[4:08:08] All right.
[4:08:10] Bored we are need to go into closed meeting.
[4:08:13] Is there a motion to take us in I move that the board
[4:08:17] of supervisors can be in a closed meeting pursuant
[4:08:19] to section 2.2-37118 of the Code of Virginia under subsection 1
[4:08:24] To discuss and consider appointments to various boards
[4:08:27] and commissions, including without limitation.
[4:08:29] The First Neighborhood Community Advisory Committee
[4:08:32] the Blue Ridge community, for showing Dot regulations.
[4:08:34] The Crozet Community Advisory committee,
[4:08:36] the Fire Prevention Code Appeals Board, the joint words,
[4:08:39] the local board of building code appeals for Places 29
[4:08:42] North Community Advisory Committee and the 20
[4:08:44] and the Places 29 Row Community Advisory Committee.
[4:08:47] And under Subsection 3 2 discuss and consider
[4:08:50] the disposition of publicly held real property
[4:08:53] and the right in a magisterial district where discussion
[4:08:56] and open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position
[4:08:59] or negotiating strategy of the county in the board.
[4:09:02] So second.
[4:09:03] All right.
[4:09:04] OK.
[4:09:04] If there's no objection, if the clerk will please call
[4:09:07] the roll is up.
[4:09:08] So currently I miss Mallet Yes.
[4:09:10] Mr. Missal Yes, Mr. Pruitt.
[4:09:12] I miss Duncan Yes.
[4:09:14] Mr. Galloway.
[4:09:14] Yes.
[4:09:15] All right good.
[5:07:41] All right.
[5:07:41] Good evening, everyone.
[5:07:42] We are coming back from our closed meeting.
[5:07:45] Do we have a motion to certify the closed meeting I move
[5:07:49] that the board of Supervisors reconvene in an open meeting
[5:07:51] and certify by a recorded vote that the best
[5:07:54] of each supervisors knowledge only public business
[5:07:57] matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting
[5:07:59] requirements of Virginia freedom of Information Act
[5:08:02] and identified in the motion authorizing the closed meeting
[5:08:05] were heard, discussed or considered in the closed
[5:08:07] meeting.
[5:08:08] Second.
[5:08:09] All right, the motion has been made and seconded
[5:08:11] without objection, if the clerk will please call
[5:08:13] the roll is lucky.
[5:08:14] Secretly, I miss Malik.
[5:08:16] Yes, Mr. Missal.
[5:08:17] All right, Mr. Pruitt.
[5:08:18] All right.
[5:08:19] Mr. Anquan.
[5:08:19] Yes, Mr. Galloway.
[5:08:21] Yes.
[5:08:21] All right.
[5:08:22] Are there motions coming out of closed meeting?
[5:08:24] Yes.
[5:08:24] Thank you.
[5:08:24] Two motions coming out of closed meeting.
[5:08:26] First is I moved to appoint the following to boards
[5:08:31] and commissions for Fifth and Avon Community Advisory
[5:08:34] Committee.
[5:08:34] Amanda Brookman Rob Fiola.
[5:08:38] I don't i of how I did on that.
[5:08:43] Mr. Pruitt.
[5:08:44] Nathan Holland Blue Ridge Committee
[5:08:46] for Shenandoah park Relations.
[5:08:48] Lonnie Murray Crochet Community Advisory committee.
[5:08:51] Christopher are a solid John Knight and Jay
[5:08:54] Pence The Fire Prevention Code Appeals
[5:08:57] Board slash local board of building code Appeals John
[5:09:01] eggleston, Doug Low and Wayne via john Board, Christy
[5:09:06] Hagen and Jacob Sumner Local Board of Building Code Appeals
[5:09:11] last fire prevention code Appeals Board.
[5:09:14] John eggleston, Doug Lowe and Duane via places 29 North
[5:09:18] Community Advisory Committee.
[5:09:20] Adam Yost places 29 Ryan Community Advisory committee.
[5:09:25] Audrey Kuchar, Brian mcMillan.
[5:09:28] Judith Schlissel and Secretary of the Fire Prevention Code
[5:09:32] Appeals Board and Local Code Building Code Appeals.
[5:09:36] Danielle sumners, Second.
[5:09:39] All right, the motion has been made and seconded.
[5:09:41] Without objection if the clerk will please
[5:09:43] call the roll missile piece.
[5:09:45] OK.
[5:09:45] I miss Malik Yes, Mr. Missal, I. Mr. Pruitt.
[5:09:49] I miss Duncan.
[5:09:50] Yes.
[5:09:50] Mr. Galloway.
[5:09:51] Yes All right.
[5:09:53] Second motion is I move i resolution.
[5:09:56] I move to adopt the resolution authorizing execution of a gift
[5:09:59] proffer letter to the united States Army for drive
[5:10:02] into station second.
[5:10:04] All right With a motion has been made and seconded,
[5:10:06] without objection that the clerk will please
[5:10:08] call the roll missile stoker.
[5:10:10] Lie.
[5:10:10] Miss Mallett?
[5:10:11] Yes, Mr. Missal.
[5:10:12] All right, Mr. Pruitt.
[5:10:13] All right Ms..
[5:10:14] Duncan.
[5:10:15] Yes, Mr. Galloway.
[5:10:16] Yes.
[5:10:17] That motion carries.
[5:10:19] Thank you And the next item, then we
[5:10:22] will start number 17 from the county executive report
[5:10:26] on matters not listed on the agenda
[5:10:28] And I know we have an item here.
[5:10:30] And are you listening?
[5:10:31] I will speak very briefly just and advise the board
[5:10:36] that county attorney Andy Herrick will provide the board
[5:10:38] with some information regarding referendum communications
[5:10:41] And with that, I'll turn it over to the county attorney.
[5:10:44] Thank you.
[5:10:46] Thank you Evening, Mr. Chair.
[5:10:51] Members of the board.
[5:10:52] Andy Herrick.
[5:10:53] I'm the county attorney, and I've
[5:10:54] been asked to speak to you this evening about the referendum
[5:10:57] communications in advance of the sales tax referendum
[5:11:01] that will be on the ballot this fall.
[5:11:03] As you're aware, the board authorized
[5:11:06] and our office filed a petition with this local circuit court
[5:11:09] earlier this summer authorizing the issue of a $0.01 sales
[5:11:14] tax to be put on the ballot this fall.
[5:11:18] There's a Virginia code section, section 24.2,
[5:11:21] dash 687 that allows a number of communication to take place
[5:11:25] that are authorized by the board I've
[5:11:28] put some of the highlights of that up there.
[5:11:31] It allows an explanation of a referendum that
[5:11:33] would include the ballot question and a statement
[5:11:35] describing the referendum It has to be
[5:11:38] a neutral, factual explanation.
[5:11:40] And it must remain unbiased in plain English
[5:11:42] with a maximum of 500 words.
[5:11:44] It may not advocate for or against referendum passage.
[5:11:48] It may be distributed at polling places
[5:11:49] on the day of the election and it also
[5:11:52] may be published in newspaper proceeding.
[5:11:53] The referendum I have prepared that proposed explanation.
[5:11:58] I've distributed to your seats.
[5:12:00] There are also copies available for the public at the sign up
[5:12:04] table and the code also does provide
[5:12:06] that if the board authorize it, it's
[5:12:08] the local government attorney that prepares that explanation.
[5:12:11] And so I have done so and attempted
[5:12:13] to make it again to fit all of all of the restrictions
[5:12:17] that it's under.
[5:12:18] 500 words factual.
[5:12:20] It does have the question that will appear on the ballot
[5:12:22] as well So it attempts to provide a neutral summary
[5:12:25] of the referendum.
[5:12:26] It outlines the purpose of the tax, its limitation
[5:12:29] and duration, and it describes the allowable uses of revenue
[5:12:32] for school capital projects.
[5:12:36] That same code section also allows
[5:12:39] for other neutral explanations to be distributed
[5:12:43] by the local government.
[5:12:44] So the county is authorized to provide neutral,
[5:12:47] factual referendum information outside of the official
[5:12:50] explanation that appears on the ballot or excuse me,
[5:12:53] that appears at the polling places So the county can provide
[5:12:58] objective information, facts, amounts,
[5:13:00] uses of proceeds and so forth, but it cannot run a vote yes
[5:13:04] campaign using public dollars, individual members of the board
[5:13:08] and their own personal capacities may also advocate
[5:13:11] for or against a referendum But again,
[5:13:14] that has to be in your personal capacity.
[5:13:16] It is Virginia law does not prohibit elected officials
[5:13:18] from expressing their personal views on a ballot question.
[5:13:22] However several important legal limits apply.
[5:13:25] Board members may not use county funds staff time county email
[5:13:29] accounts, County Facil ities or any other public resources
[5:13:32] as to promote or oppose the referenda on any advocacy
[5:13:36] should make clear that the member is speaking
[5:13:37] in an individual capacity, not on behalf of the Board
[5:13:40] or on behalf of county government.
[5:13:43] Again, as I've indicated, staff may provide neutral,
[5:13:45] factual information about the referendum,
[5:13:48] but cannot assist in preparing advocacy materials or messaging.
[5:13:52] If a member engages in activities
[5:13:54] that meets the definition of express advocacy campaign
[5:13:58] finance rules may apply, including reporting requirements
[5:14:01] for referendum committees So in some personal advocacy
[5:14:05] is allowed.
[5:14:05] But official advocacy using county platforms or resources
[5:14:09] is not.
[5:14:11] So the neutral, factual communications
[5:14:13] through county channels is permitted
[5:14:14] and will be managed by staff consistent with state law.
[5:14:19] So we've done our Cape office led by Abby Stump,
[5:14:24] has prepared a county communications campaign again
[5:14:27] along the lines of neutral factual information will launch
[5:14:30] that or we plan to launch that public awareness campaign
[5:14:33] on September 4th with these principles that
[5:14:36] the communications will remain factual and neutral,
[5:14:38] that the information will explain what the referendum is,
[5:14:41] how it works and when and where residents can vote.
[5:14:44] Again, the county will not encourage a yes or no vote
[5:14:47] because we're prohibited by law from doing so.
[5:14:50] The local government and schools, it's worth noting,
[5:14:52] will conduct separate coordinated campaigns
[5:14:55] The code section that I just cited
[5:14:56] to 24 section 24.2, dash 687 restricts local governing
[5:15:01] bodies.
[5:15:01] But the school board is not under the same restrictions.
[5:15:04] So there's a slightly different set of rules.
[5:15:07] As a result, the counties communicate
[5:15:08] options may differ somewhat from the schools,
[5:15:11] including the possible naming of school projects
[5:15:13] by the schools themselves if they so choose.
[5:15:16] While the county focus on the types of projects,
[5:15:19] while the county will focus on the types of projects
[5:15:22] that the tax might fund the schools
[5:15:23] might name specific projects.
[5:15:25] Again, we don't control that and they are not
[5:15:27] limited by the code section that I cited.
[5:15:30] And again, this difference is rooted
[5:15:31] in the different legal regulations
[5:15:32] for the two entities.
[5:15:34] So with that those are my prepared remarks.
[5:15:36] I'm happy to answer any questions you might have missed.
[5:15:39] Not from our Cape office is here and might also be able to answer
[5:15:41] questions regarding the communications effort.
[5:15:44] Thank you, Andy And I would encourage the board
[5:15:46] to ask as many questions as you need to on this one.
[5:15:49] So that we understand the letter and not
[5:15:52] just the spirit of the law, but the actual letter of the law.
[5:15:55] So Supervisor malik, you're a first.
[5:15:59] I think I understand the spirit and the intent
[5:16:01] and we'll tread very carefully.
[5:16:03] Thank you.
[5:16:04] Supervisor Duncan yeah, I would be
[5:16:06] really interested in hearing more
[5:16:08] about what the plans are for the community
[5:16:11] engagement and education.
[5:16:12] And I guess I defer to Ms..
[5:16:13] Stump to address that.
[5:16:18] Oh, he's so much taller than me.
[5:16:20] Abby Stone, director of communications
[5:16:21] and public Engagement We're really
[5:16:24] focusing on a broad education based campaign,
[5:16:29] and it'll include a web platform form our web page.
[5:16:32] And that's really going to be the source
[5:16:34] of all of this information.
[5:16:35] So people can find it, particularly all those Google
[5:16:38] searches.
[5:16:39] We have the rate language that'll
[5:16:40] pop up to answer questions and people are looking for.
[5:16:44] It'll have a to launch it'll have an initial one pager fact
[5:16:49] sheet that people can download and then share as they need.
[5:16:52] It will also be working on a mailer out to all residences
[5:16:57] in the county that will drive traffic back to their website.
[5:17:00] And then there's a whole bunch of cash, a whole bunch probably
[5:17:03] about 10 to 12, I think that we know
[5:17:06] that people are going to be asking
[5:17:08] and we're just going to keep adding to that
[5:17:09] as we hear more and more Have you.
[5:17:13] So I know that the city has already started
[5:17:16] running ads on the radio.
[5:17:17] That's sort of a, you know, educational thing
[5:17:21] Have we thought about doing any sort of like video
[5:17:24] ads, social media ads, radio ads and anything like that?
[5:17:28] So we have social media and in our in our plan right
[5:17:31] now, we're going to start with organic social media
[5:17:34] a first, because I know that a lot of the sharing
[5:17:36] for the first couple of weeks is going to going to hit everything
[5:17:39] and people are going to be just using that as their platform
[5:17:42] for moving.
[5:17:43] But we're going to be looking weekly to figure out,
[5:17:46] are we getting the information out of the places
[5:17:48] that we need to?
[5:17:50] So you have radio ads and newspaper ads
[5:17:52] and some other places are going to be on our list
[5:17:54] that we can easily tap into if we need to That's all I have.
[5:17:57] Yeah.
[5:17:58] Supervisor Pruitt, I actually have nothing to add on this
[5:18:02] or ask Supervisor Bissell.
[5:18:04] Thank you.
[5:18:05] No questions, Supervisor or Mr. Kirby.
[5:18:07] No questions Thank you.
[5:18:09] All right, I got some questions I open up
[5:18:13] my inbox, a constitu or an emails me and says,
[5:18:16] Supervisor galloway, do you support the referendum?
[5:18:18] Am I allowed to answer that question
[5:18:20] If I want to answer yes or no, is that
[5:18:23] the correct or not correct?
[5:18:24] You have the ability to answer that question,
[5:18:27] but you cannot use county resources to advocate.
[5:18:29] So it might be if you wanted to perfectly comply
[5:18:32] with the letter of law, it may be best
[5:18:33] to respond to that with your personal email
[5:18:35] rather than a county based email.
[5:18:37] But if I respond to that email and say yes or no then I'm not.
[5:18:41] I could be in violation technically
[5:18:44] because you'd be using county resources.
[5:18:45] And again, it would be very important for you to clarify,
[5:18:48] I'm speaking on my on the more important thing
[5:18:50] is that you clarify that you're speaking on your own behalf,
[5:18:53] not on behalf of the board or the county All right.
[5:18:56] I'm asked to come speak to some constituent group in the county.
[5:19:00] We'd like to have you here to help answer questions that
[5:19:02] cetera, etc..
[5:19:03] And they're trying to figure out where they're at on this
[5:19:06] Is in that situation.
[5:19:08] And I know I'm free to speak as I want,
[5:19:10] but i have to just state that I'm here as the citizen,
[5:19:13] not the chair of the board.
[5:19:15] Yes, sir.
[5:19:15] And that you're speaking on your own person
[5:19:17] of your own personal opinion and again, not
[5:19:19] on behalf of the board or the county.
[5:19:22] I think that sums up exactly what we have to be mindful of
[5:19:26] and careful of Yes, just want to know.
[5:19:31] We usually have two phones, so if we get a call on our work
[5:19:35] phone then we can't answer it.
[5:19:37] Best to return it.
[5:19:38] On not using county resources, county email, county phones,
[5:19:41] best to return any sort of inquiries
[5:19:44] on your own personal devices.
[5:19:46] Thank you.
[5:19:46] Yeah.
[5:19:47] So just I guess we're just clarifying again
[5:19:52] to be very clear, so we can like go on social media and say,
[5:19:56] this is my opinion on this.
[5:19:57] Yes, ma'am I would advise you, though,
[5:20:00] to, again, just disclaimer this is my personal.
[5:20:02] Exactly.
[5:20:03] As a voter and parent Exactly.
[5:20:05] Yes, ma'am.
[5:20:07] In the great wisdom of the you know, the code of Virginia,
[5:20:09] we've done nothing but advocate for this up until this point
[5:20:14] And we voted to put it on the ballot.
[5:20:16] And as soon as we did that, now it changes the game
[5:20:18] while we lead up to the vote.
[5:20:19] Criminal indictments.
[5:20:21] While the board has put it before the voters
[5:20:23] to make that decision.
[5:20:24] So I'm just saying, though, for three years
[5:20:28] that all of a sudden, if I could clarify, the board
[5:20:30] has advocated to allow that to allow Virginia
[5:20:32] localities to have that option.
[5:20:34] And now we have that option, and it's before the board.
[5:20:36] There are voters at this point, and I
[5:20:39] don't suspect that there's anything
[5:20:41] wrong with if an e emails received on the county email
[5:20:44] that I can reply, email me here or just you said go ahead
[5:20:48] and just reply Yes, sir, Use the email address
[5:20:51] and apply from the personal.
[5:20:52] Yes, sir.
[5:20:52] Right Very good.
[5:20:54] Thank you.
[5:20:55] Thank you.
[5:20:55] Two other questions actually I do have one.
[5:20:57] Yeah.
[5:20:57] The one that just came up.
[5:20:58] So if someone emails a question to our county email
[5:21:02] should that be kept?
[5:21:03] Yes.
[5:21:03] OK.
[5:21:04] Even though we don't ever answer it or anything else OK.
[5:21:07] And again.
[5:21:08] And let me clarify.
[5:21:09] You can answer from your county email as well.
[5:21:12] As long as it's neutral factual.
[5:21:13] And so forth.
[5:21:14] The moment that you express an opinion,
[5:21:16] it would have to be from your personal account.
[5:21:18] OK.
[5:21:19] Thank you.
[5:21:20] Very good.
[5:21:20] Thank you Okay, we will move to item number
[5:21:28] 18 public comment on matters previously considered
[5:21:31] are currently pending before the board other than the other
[5:21:34] than scheduled public hearings And we
[5:21:37] do have some folks signed up.
[5:21:38] So Vice Chair mr. Will read the rules
[5:21:41] and introduce our speakers.
[5:21:42] Happy to.
[5:21:42] We have no one on line.
[5:21:43] So I read the in person only during this portion
[5:21:45] of the meeting.
[5:21:46] Individuals may address the board regarding matters
[5:21:48] previously considered by the Board
[5:21:50] are currently pending before the Board,
[5:21:52] other than the item scheduled for public hearing,
[5:21:54] speakers are limited to one opportunity
[5:21:55] of up to three minutes to ensure equal treatment and courtesy
[5:21:59] for all speakers.
[5:21:59] The board requests that the following guidelines
[5:22:01] be observed.
[5:22:02] Please state your name.
[5:22:03] And if you live in Albemarle County or magisterial district
[5:22:06] comments should be directed to the board as a whole.
[5:22:08] Written statements or supporting materials
[5:22:10] may be provided to the clerk if representing a group
[5:22:13] or organization, you may ask others present to raise
[5:22:15] their hands in recognition.
[5:22:16] Speakers may not share unused time with another speaker.
[5:22:19] A back and forth debate is not permitted
[5:22:21] and speakers should not speak from their seat
[5:22:23] or out of turn the podium timer will guide your time.
[5:22:26] Green indicate your time has begun.
[5:22:27] Yellow means one minute remains that read indicates
[5:22:30] your time has expired All comments are
[5:22:32] recorded live streamed and published on the county website.
[5:22:35] The sign up period is closed once public comment begins
[5:22:38] the podium is adjustable.
[5:22:39] Speakers may raise or lower it.
[5:22:41] So they're able to speak directly into the microphone,
[5:22:44] and we'll begin with Mr. Tom Olivier our good evening.
[5:22:54] I'm Tom Olivier from the Samuel Miller district.
[5:22:57] I'm here to speak about regarding rural areas values
[5:23:01] and planning.
[5:23:03] In the early 1990, as a former county supervisor
[5:23:06] told me that during the development of the county's
[5:23:09] first zoning ordinance, a large scale map of the county
[5:23:13] was hung in public area in a public area,
[5:23:16] and a planning department.
[5:23:17] While on the map areas we today would call rural areas were
[5:23:22] labeled as raw land law is a semantically pregnant adjective,
[5:23:28] one that suggests that open space is of there to be
[5:23:32] transformed by humans into something else Fortunately,
[5:23:36] by 1989, our comprehensive plan recognized the need
[5:23:40] to preserve open spaces with forestry and agriculture
[5:23:43] as priority uses In 1999, the natural resources
[5:23:48] and cultural assets chapter added
[5:23:51] natural and historical resources to the list of protected
[5:23:55] or values a few years later, the first Rural Areas chapter
[5:24:00] presented a vision for enduring rural areas.
[5:24:03] A vision of integrated agroforestry and industries,
[5:24:06] natural systems and historic resources
[5:24:10] I recently sent you all a copy for that vision
[5:24:13] statement in contrast to early in the last comprehensive plan
[5:24:17] planning staff proposed a new structure for the plan
[5:24:21] without a rural areas chapter are open spaces, it seemed,
[5:24:26] were deemed undeserved.
[5:24:27] And with much attention What impoverished conception
[5:24:31] of our rural areas lay by and are behind that decision
[5:24:34] and were rural areas again, being seen as raw land pressure
[5:24:40] from members of the public who understood open face, open space
[5:24:43] values led to including the rural areas
[5:24:46] chapter and a commitment to develop a standalone rural areas
[5:24:50] plan such a plan would help identify policies
[5:24:54] that foster coexistence of often compete in open space.
[5:24:58] Land uses.
[5:25:00] It could help identify adaptive paths for Forest Hill industries
[5:25:04] in changing ecological and economic circumstances Allow
[5:25:10] the county currently lacks rural areas planners to help develop
[5:25:14] a standalone plan.
[5:25:16] If the Community Development Department
[5:25:18] doesn't request a new rural areas planning
[5:25:21] position in the next county budget, I urge that use of force
[5:25:25] require that it be added and funded.
[5:25:27] Thanks.
[5:25:28] For your consideration.
[5:25:30] Thank you.
[5:25:30] Thank you.
[5:25:32] And tim Kendrick Good evening.
[5:25:39] My name is Ted Kendrick and I live in the white hold district.
[5:25:42] I'm speaking today on behalf of Albemarle County Farm Bureau.
[5:25:45] In front of you, there's a small booklet.
[5:25:47] Welcome to the Country.
[5:25:49] This is a booklet about Central Virginia and living
[5:25:52] in the country and rural areas within our county.
[5:25:56] It's a light reading, but in the fact that in the near future,
[5:25:59] we'll be making decisions here with this board about the future
[5:26:02] of agricultural in our county.
[5:26:04] I would ask that you take the time
[5:26:06] and read the short book You'll recognize names in there
[5:26:09] from farmers past and present, like Corky Shackleford Rob
[5:26:13] Harrison and Carl Tender It's a short read, 70 pages,
[5:26:19] but I think you'll find it informative
[5:26:22] and a delight to read Thank you.
[5:26:24] Thank you.
[5:26:25] Thank you, Tim.
[5:26:26] That concludes our list.
[5:26:27] All right.
[5:26:27] Thank you for our speakers this evening All right.
[5:26:31] We will move to item number 19.
[5:26:34] ZM 2025 seven Windy Knoll.
[5:26:38] We have Rebecca and Michael at the dais with us.
[5:26:41] Good evening.
[5:26:43] Good evening.
[5:26:44] Thank you.
[5:26:45] Rebecca Ragsdale, planning manager with the Community
[5:26:49] Development Division, And I will be taking us
[5:26:51] through this presentation and going over
[5:26:55] the specifics of the proposal This is a public hearing
[5:26:59] and we did get a few questions and want
[5:27:01] to make sure we clarified that it has been properly advertised
[5:27:05] and that includes all the required
[5:27:07] parts of the code of Virginia and sufficient notice,
[5:27:11] including posted notice under the county
[5:27:13] specific requirements in our ordinance This rezoning involves
[5:27:19] about three acres of land comprised of three parcels
[5:27:24] currently zoned r-1 residential and the proposal
[5:27:28] is to rezone to r six for up to a total of 18
[5:27:32] units at a gross density of six dwelling units per acre
[5:27:38] Public hearings have been held at the planning
[5:27:41] Commission in February and then most recently in May when they
[5:27:45] made their recommendation And the application has advanced
[5:27:48] to you this evening.
[5:27:50] So I will go through a couple of slides
[5:27:53] to go over the existing conditions
[5:27:55] and orient everyone to the parcel
[5:28:03] Just getting situated over here with my screen
[5:28:07] It is located along Rockfish Gap Turnpike at 250
[5:28:12] and it is in between the quarry farm and Liberty hall
[5:28:17] neighborhoods.
[5:28:18] And it has a couple different access
[5:28:21] points that we will go over.
[5:28:24] But it is a c-shaped assemblage of those three parcels Looking
[5:28:31] at a little more closely with the aerial view,
[5:28:33] the parcel will be outlined on each of these slides or most
[5:28:36] of them in the in the blue.
[5:28:38] It is this c-shaped parcel, as I mentioned
[5:28:40] to the east of quarry Farm and it is to the west
[5:28:46] is Liberty Hall.
[5:28:47] It's near the clover line and Center area
[5:28:53] of Blue Ridge Shopping Center.
[5:28:55] The yellow arrows are indicating a couple access points
[5:29:00] that already exists to these parcels off of quarry Farm,
[5:29:03] which will, of course be future Eastern Avenue.
[5:29:07] Those access points are important as we
[5:29:11] go through this presentation because it is, again,
[5:29:15] an assemblage of parcels that will
[5:29:16] be accessed from a couple of different spots
[5:29:20] which is Windy Lane that extends off Little Fox
[5:29:23] Lane in the existing quarry farm neighborhood
[5:29:26] to the northern most portion of the existing quarry farm road
[5:29:30] and access point.
[5:29:32] From there.
[5:29:32] And then from Colony Drive within liberty Hall,
[5:29:37] we mentioned that it is located adjacent
[5:29:39] to future Eastern Avenue.
[5:29:43] That is underway In terms of moving forward with the design
[5:29:48] build process and funding this fall hopefully starting
[5:29:52] that in 2027 through 2029.
[5:29:57] Again with the existing conditions,
[5:29:59] information, switching gears to this map,
[5:30:01] you'll see the C-shaped parcel in the light.
[5:30:04] Green color in the middle is zoned R-1 residential.
[5:30:07] Currently.
[5:30:07] As we mentioned, the White is just
[5:30:10] acknowledging the existing and 20 foot
[5:30:12] right of way for future Eastern Avenue quarry Farm
[5:30:16] is zoned r six excuse me, R4.
[5:30:20] And then Liberty Hall is neighborhood model
[5:30:25] with about a gross density of six dwelling units per acre
[5:30:30] This is a snippet or inset map from the crazy master plan.
[5:30:35] The parcel is designate added neighborhood density
[5:30:37] residential That density range is up to six
[5:30:41] dwelling units per acre and is the same designation as Liberty
[5:30:46] Hall and quarry farm as we mentioned.
[5:30:49] Again, the center is located within close proximity
[5:30:53] and walking distance from the site Going
[5:30:57] over the specifics of the proposal,
[5:31:00] this is what we refer to as a concept
[5:31:03] plan that is offered by the developer
[5:31:07] to make commitments to certain features.
[5:31:10] We often use the term major elements Anything you don't see
[5:31:14] called out on the plan specifically as a unique element
[5:31:18] of this proposal will be covered by the ordinance,
[5:31:21] which is the R six regulations that are six allows unit types,
[5:31:28] such as single family detached and multifamily and the maximum
[5:31:34] building height is 35ft.
[5:31:36] For example.
[5:31:37] This particular plan as I mentioned,
[5:31:40] has a couple of different areas assemblage of three areas.
[5:31:46] But it has what we refer to in the applicant has labeled
[5:31:50] the South building zone, which is accessed by windy non lane.
[5:31:55] And then from colony Farm or excuse
[5:31:58] me, colony Drive and then the northern portion in the north
[5:32:04] building zone, which would be accessed
[5:32:07] with a new private street from existing quarry farm road.
[5:32:14] The total number of units.
[5:32:18] That's proposed is 18.
[5:32:19] And that maximum is included in the materials
[5:32:23] from the applicant They have included
[5:32:28] a limit on the number of units within each of these building
[5:32:32] zones, which would be up to 11.
[5:32:35] So for example, you know, if they did if they did fewer
[5:32:39] in one, they can't do as many.
[5:32:43] But the maximum overall is 18.
[5:32:47] This plan also given that it has multiple access points and also
[5:32:56] some constraints that will result in it,
[5:32:59] not completing any new public road segments.
[5:33:02] It is bound on a couple of access points
[5:33:05] from existing public roads.
[5:33:06] So these connections into the site again will be private.
[5:33:11] There is the commitment to a paved path that
[5:33:14] would provide accessibility from the northern part of the site
[5:33:19] down through it over to the existing sidewalk system,
[5:33:24] either in liberty Hall or down to future Eastern Avenue
[5:33:30] or the existing paved path down near Little Fox that
[5:33:34] extends along the 250 frontage.
[5:33:37] This development with the townhouse proposal
[5:33:41] and the limited number of the limit to the number of units
[5:33:44] that need each building zone might end up
[5:33:47] being similar to the row of townhouses
[5:33:48] that is grayed out and similar to some of that development
[5:33:52] that you see in Liberty hall currently.
[5:33:57] What is in addition to the regulations of the R six
[5:34:02] district.
[5:34:03] There is no requirement for buffers or screening
[5:34:06] between residential uses and based
[5:34:10] on public input and concern about adjacent neighborhoods.
[5:34:16] The there is what you will see as a ten foot buffer zone along
[5:34:22] property lines that are adjacent to existing residential
[5:34:25] in Liberty Hall the residence at 3:30,
[5:34:28] which is not part of this proposal.
[5:34:30] And then the existing residents in Corey Farm,
[5:34:35] the rear setback for R six is 20ft and the applicant has
[5:34:39] proposed an additional five feet for that rear setback to allow
[5:34:43] for some additional space between the new development.
[5:34:48] And this development.
[5:34:50] There was what we refer to as an illustrative plan, which means
[5:34:56] is an example of how the site could develop under the R
[5:35:01] six zoning regulations that would regulate it.
[5:35:03] And the features of the plan that they have made commitments
[5:35:07] to.
[5:35:08] So that would this is just showing you
[5:35:10] how there may be fewer units in the southern section
[5:35:15] than the northern section It's hard to see on this screen,
[5:35:19] but the applicant has demonstrated
[5:35:21] how they will manage stormwater on the site, which
[5:35:24] would be completely contained on this site.
[5:35:27] And not relying on any conveyance
[5:35:29] over in the or drainage to the liberty hall neighborhood.
[5:35:34] But would drain through the site to the stormwater stormwater
[5:35:38] facility that they have planned.
[5:35:41] Engineering staff has reviewed this
[5:35:43] and been out to the site several times
[5:35:45] based on some concerns about stormwater
[5:35:47] from the Liberty Hall residents.
[5:35:48] They didn't object to the proposal
[5:35:51] or see any hurdles with me meeting the D EMQQ
[5:35:55] regulations or local regulations with regard
[5:35:57] to managing stormwater on site and not
[5:36:01] having any impacts offsite I mentioned the proffers
[5:36:10] and what what commitments have been made with the plan
[5:36:14] and those features I think I've gone over in the in the plan
[5:36:18] may not have mentioned a few of the other elements
[5:36:22] include an additional drainage and slope easement or excuse me.
[5:36:27] Yes, drainage and slope easement That
[5:36:30] would be necessary to accommodate eastern Avenue.
[5:36:33] We mentioned the public paths and connectivity through there.
[5:36:37] And then based on the number of units
[5:36:41] the applicant has committed to proffers
[5:36:45] that are consistent with fully consistent with housing.
[5:36:47] Albemarle including that the percentage
[5:36:51] of units terms of affordability and the income limits.
[5:36:57] So if they build out to the maximum 18,
[5:37:01] for example, that would be up to affordable units
[5:37:06] We mentioned the review at the Planning Commission.
[5:37:08] Ultimately the last action by the Commission
[5:37:11] was a recommendation for denial We did receive a resubmit
[5:37:16] from the applicant and this proposed will includes
[5:37:19] some additional changes that were meant
[5:37:24] to address those concerns.
[5:37:26] We heard from the Commission and the public related
[5:37:29] to storm water defining and defining
[5:37:35] the boundaries and condition between this development
[5:37:40] and the adjacent and so I will pause there for any questions.
[5:37:47] All right.
[5:37:48] Thank you, Rebecca Supervisor Malik.
[5:37:50] Thank you.
[5:37:51] I will start at the bottom Most recent.
[5:37:53] So what are the changes that were proposed since the May
[5:37:59] Planning Commission?
[5:38:00] Because I didn't see that in my homework.
[5:38:02] If I missed it, I'm sorry I knew the path was new,
[5:38:05] but I didn't know there was anything else.
[5:38:07] It was substantial.
[5:38:09] So they made sure that that ten foot planted buffer zone
[5:38:14] around the perimeter or adjacent to existing resident marshall
[5:38:18] included was included in additional areas
[5:38:22] that it wasn't at the commission.
[5:38:25] The 25 foot rear setback was an increase
[5:38:29] from 20, which is the ordinance minimum to 25
[5:38:34] between the board I mean, excuse me,
[5:38:38] the Planning Commission and the board.
[5:38:39] And then they also there was an updated narrative proffer
[5:38:44] and concept plan to address stormwater
[5:38:49] an additional response to stormwater
[5:38:51] and some of the other concerns that
[5:38:52] were raised in the narrative.
[5:38:55] So that was what was provided in between the the Planning
[5:39:00] Commission Board.
[5:39:02] And so in the buffer zone around 330, for example,
[5:39:07] that ten foot green angle that you showed on one of the slides,
[5:39:10] what is the tree protection in that zone?
[5:39:13] Because having stood right there,
[5:39:16] there are multiple trees, two feet
[5:39:18] and 3 feet in diameter right along that buffer route
[5:39:24] So the proper that may not include the buffer
[5:39:29] would be landscaped, but it doesn't necessarily
[5:39:31] make a commitment to preserving the existing trees in that area
[5:39:37] Given a site like this.
[5:39:39] And the grading and everything that
[5:39:40] would be necessary to develop it it the developer
[5:39:45] has not made a commitment to preserving specific trees.
[5:39:50] Okay.
[5:39:50] And i will work our way back up the chain.
[5:39:54] Let's see, you had mentioned amenities
[5:39:57] and i did get some questions today.
[5:40:00] So let me just open that up.
[5:40:03] Come on.
[5:40:04] Are you well shoot.
[5:40:10] I'm sorry.
[5:40:11] One second and then died for crying out loud.
[5:40:20] The So where are the recreation?
[5:40:24] Closest Recreation and places for this one?
[5:40:31] The questions from one of the people
[5:40:33] who lives far away in Crozet.
[5:40:35] But not anywhere near his playground.
[5:40:37] Basketball court, Baseball field, soccer field.
[5:40:39] How will kids get there without parents driving them?
[5:40:43] We're talking about amenities.
[5:40:45] So I'm just wondering if any of those questions
[5:40:47] are included in the amenities.
[5:40:50] You mentioned So the starting point in the ordinance,
[5:40:55] there actually aren't amenity or recreation requirements
[5:40:59] for units of less than 30.
[5:41:02] This is a proposal for 18, but the proffers
[5:41:05] have made a commitment to provide amenities.
[5:41:09] The minimum amenities that would be
[5:41:11] required for under our ordinance in section 416.
[5:41:17] So there's volun they've proffered
[5:41:19] to comply with 416, which would include the tot lot
[5:41:25] as the amenities for this site.
[5:41:28] There.
[5:41:28] It's not one based on the number of units and the schedule
[5:41:31] on our ordinance that would require those other amenities.
[5:41:34] But it will be with Eastern avenue,
[5:41:37] hopefully more accessible to crozet Park
[5:41:42] within the development area.
[5:41:44] So this green rectangle on the slide, you have up now
[5:41:47] is where these features would be even though it's a very
[5:41:50] sleepy section right now.
[5:41:52] So the I have to cut cut that out.
[5:41:54] OK.
[5:41:55] I feel.
[5:41:56] Yes, that the green area on the illustrative
[5:41:59] is where they believe they have enough area
[5:42:01] to provide a amenities that are cited in the ordinance.
[5:42:07] But you'll also, you're seeing now
[5:42:09] how developers are getting creative
[5:42:11] with things that work with the area that they have
[5:42:15] and the characteristics of the location where
[5:42:19] they would go All right.
[5:42:21] Working my way back up the easement for Eastern Avenue,
[5:42:24] which you mentioned in the proffers,
[5:42:27] there seems to be a difference between what is
[5:42:30] shown on the applicant's map.
[5:42:32] And what the county's map is showing.
[5:42:35] And so who's going to be what's going to be this when the county
[5:42:39] needs this map to go forward with the Eastern Avenue
[5:42:43] procurement and who's going to be is the extra area going to be
[5:42:47] then provided or is the county going to be stuck with buying
[5:42:50] an extra 6000ft² or whatever to accomplish the construction
[5:42:55] of Eastern Avenue?
[5:42:55] Because there seems to be a pretty significant just
[5:42:59] a mismatch between this little slash
[5:43:02] triangle here and the bigger.
[5:43:04] It's about twice as big actually, on the county county
[5:43:07] maps So that may be something you're not
[5:43:10] prepared to answer right now, but it is certainly
[5:43:12] a discrepancy going forward.
[5:43:14] That could mean lots and lots of money to county taxpayers
[5:43:20] But we do have Kevin McDermott excuse me, McGovern.
[5:43:23] McDermott If you would like to call him up
[5:43:25] to answer any specific questions related to Eastern Avenue,
[5:43:31] we have to answer the question about the specific proffer.
[5:43:34] It's the 4500 and roughly seven 70 square foot
[5:43:37] area that had been identified up to this point
[5:43:40] for additional easements We Kevin,
[5:43:45] may have more details I could hear where
[5:43:49] Michael, our local bar and treasurer planning.
[5:43:51] We so currently miss Malik.
[5:43:54] We have conceptual plans for the widening of well, you
[5:43:59] know, the installation of the road and extension, the Eastern
[5:44:03] Avenue Connector There have been some concepts that we've looked
[5:44:06] at lately about, you know maybe reworking
[5:44:09] some of the sidewalk and shared use paths in this area.
[5:44:13] I don't believe at this point that the,
[5:44:14] you know, the right of way discussions
[5:44:16] we've been talking about would be outside of the area
[5:44:21] shown on this particular plan I'm not quite sure the exhibit
[5:44:24] that you're looking at.
[5:44:26] I guess it was part of the materials that were put together
[5:44:28] for the public meeting in Crazy a couple of weeks
[5:44:30] ago that showed official documents or somebody sufficient
[5:44:33] looking documents that showed a big arch for the construction
[5:44:38] easement, particularly as part of it, as opposed to
[5:44:41] and then it's encroaching.
[5:44:43] If having been there and seen how deep.
[5:44:47] That ball is, it begins on the white parcel going north and all
[5:44:51] those timber lines that are there is very steep
[5:44:55] and this stormwater pond that they're looking at,
[5:44:58] they're in the low spot is sort of at the bottom of the slope.
[5:45:02] That's going to have to be dealt with for the construction
[5:45:05] easement, for the roadway So it looks.
[5:45:07] I'm not an engineer, but it looks too small for me,
[5:45:10] considering the constraints, which are there So
[5:45:12] I just want to know who's going to get stuck
[5:45:14] with making those changes.
[5:45:15] And I don't think changes should be happening
[5:45:17] to the public project when we have an application in which
[5:45:21] is open for deliberation and would be easy enough
[5:45:25] for them to make sure that there is sufficient land provided
[5:45:28] for whatever the county needs for this long awaited roadway
[5:45:32] improvement Let's see So you basically in the buffer
[5:45:43] question, what will happen to the vegetation
[5:45:45] and will basically all be cut down
[5:45:47] and little shrubs will be put in the places the answer, I guess,
[5:45:50] that I took away from that no tree preservation was required.
[5:45:54] So the proper specify the replanting standards
[5:45:57] for the buffer areas that were proffered and that was keep
[5:46:05] excuse trying to refer to my screen here the there was a mix
[5:46:12] of ornamental and medium shade trees at at intervals of 30ft
[5:46:18] on center, existing healthy trees within the buffer zone are
[5:46:23] preserved, maybe if existing trees can be preserved,
[5:46:27] they will be counted towards the buffer.
[5:46:29] So they aim to try and preserve the existing trees,
[5:46:32] but it would be a mix of the ornamental in the shade
[5:46:36] trees in your presentation, you describe the multiple access
[5:46:44] points and then the outcome might be similar to the Liberty
[5:46:49] Hall townhouses over to the east for this upper northern building
[5:46:57] zone, but might be is not giving me enough information
[5:47:01] to know whether I can approve a particular application
[5:47:04] because there's no guarantee of what the proposals are going
[5:47:07] to be.
[5:47:08] And I'm old enough to know that things
[5:47:10] have changed between approval and final site plan.
[5:47:13] So I just want to know what is really being proposed that I
[5:47:17] think the board needs to know.
[5:47:18] And the applicant, the neighbors and the community
[5:47:21] certainly need to know what to be.
[5:47:24] What to expect up there.
[5:47:25] So the applicant will probably go into greater detail.
[5:47:29] But when you look at this row of townhouses,
[5:47:32] this represents the maximum 11 that
[5:47:34] could be achieved in a building envelope.
[5:47:37] So the limit is 11.
[5:47:40] And in one envelope and then 18 total.
[5:47:44] So this row here on the illustrative
[5:47:48] is roughly the same size as the Liberty Hall one over here.
[5:47:53] And that's why I just it's one, you
[5:47:55] know real world example that's nearby.
[5:47:59] And so footprints, footprints would
[5:48:02] need to be smaller in the other portion
[5:48:05] or, you know, they made regionally distributed.
[5:48:07] But this is an example given the area
[5:48:10] that they have to work with of the maximum they could achieve.
[5:48:14] I believe based on what we've looked at on this plan
[5:48:18] in in one of those buildings, owns
[5:48:20] given the the configuration of the parcel and the limit of 11
[5:48:23] and each one and the constraints of the configuration
[5:48:28] of the parcel are given and certainly
[5:48:30] something that was known before the purchase and the process
[5:48:33] even began.
[5:48:34] But these lots, the six townhouses
[5:48:37] are basically half the size of the units across the 25 foot
[5:48:41] buffer, which is there toward the east.
[5:48:45] And the lots over there are very, very close.
[5:48:49] Having And I guess the the townhouses on the east,
[5:48:53] the northern zone will have to be dug in to the slope
[5:48:57] is pretty steep, like 15 or so feet from top to bottom,
[5:49:01] going north over there.
[5:49:03] It's really hard to imagine how that's
[5:49:05] going to work because we were given no information about that.
[5:49:11] Oh, let's see.
[5:49:12] Going up to the top All right.
[5:49:15] I guess that's all the questions I have for right now.
[5:49:17] Thank you.
[5:49:18] Thank you very much.
[5:49:21] Supervise Duncan going into sort of the land use for it.
[5:49:25] Could you just refresh my memory on how long the Crozet master
[5:49:29] plan has been there and how many times it's been revised Well,
[5:49:35] crazy has its third master plan that were on right now the five,
[5:49:40] ten, 15 and 21.
[5:49:44] The 2005 was the first one.
[5:49:49] There's a four well, 3 to 4 times.
[5:49:52] But the designation of neighborhood density.
[5:49:55] And this general area hasn't changed
[5:49:57] substantially since in any of the master plans.
[5:50:01] And every time it gets revised, the public
[5:50:03] has a chance to like weigh in and sort of debate what they
[5:50:07] want the master plan to be.
[5:50:10] There's extensive public engagement with each
[5:50:12] of those master plan Thank you.
[5:50:15] And then in the packet you talk about
[5:50:19] that this area is designated and activities center.
[5:50:22] You just sort of refresh what that
[5:50:24] means that activity centers are noted
[5:50:30] where we have certain goals for them
[5:50:33] in terms of more than the most dense at the center
[5:50:37] of the activity center.
[5:50:38] And then supporting those in terms of walkability and density
[5:50:43] around them as it radiates out from the center,
[5:50:45] sort of roughly.
[5:50:47] Mr. Barnes may have things to add,
[5:50:49] but it's where there is a certain amount of facilities
[5:50:58] already that can serve even serve more infill
[5:51:02] And the intent, then is you have activities and places to be.
[5:51:06] And then the intends to have housing close by.
[5:51:10] So that people can make sure i'm definitely
[5:51:12] mixed use in the center.
[5:51:14] And then I guess my last question
[5:51:16] is so you believe that this meets
[5:51:19] the higher requirements for stormwater and soil
[5:51:22] and sediment?
[5:51:23] Rose control, and all that You know, we with rezonings
[5:51:30] are looking at feasibility.
[5:51:32] So we wouldn't be able to say it meets it
[5:51:36] until it goes through the full extensive engineer and site plan
[5:51:39] review process, but we didn't see any hurdles to them
[5:51:44] being able to comply.
[5:51:45] No, that's all i have.
[5:51:46] Thank you.
[5:51:48] Supervisor Pruitt, this is going to be a really weird question
[5:51:52] to begin with.
[5:51:53] But do you know what this is like?
[5:51:54] This was just put on our desk.
[5:51:57] I don't want to say it came from as a party That's correct.
[5:52:01] OK.
[5:52:01] Got it Thank you.
[5:52:04] I was just legitimately confused and figured,
[5:52:06] you know, we're asking questions because it
[5:52:09] looks like it's part of the packet,
[5:52:10] but it's the massing is different.
[5:52:12] And so I was a little thrown In fact, I was so through
[5:52:18] and I forgot what my next question was.
[5:52:19] Oh, yes, can you talk us through?
[5:52:21] Because I know there were rounds of changes.
[5:52:25] We talked about the change that was
[5:52:28] made after the planning Commission voted either five 1
[5:52:34] or 6 1 2 deny it recently.
[5:52:36] But then there was also a vote for deferral.
[5:52:40] What were the differences between the vote for defer roll
[5:52:42] and next appearance before the Planning Commission?
[5:52:45] That there was actually a decision on?
[5:52:48] I think one of the bigger items was the distribution of units
[5:52:53] between the two buildings zones the second time I went
[5:52:57] to the commission was where there was the commitment
[5:52:59] to establish the maximum within each zone of 11.
[5:53:02] Prior to that, there were potentially fewer units
[5:53:07] in the southern building zone.
[5:53:10] So the part of the response from the planning Commission
[5:53:13] initially that they returned for was to actually increase
[5:53:17] the density on the southern part. yes.
[5:53:22] And the commission specifically said, I think balance the site.
[5:53:28] But I think just distribute distributing the density perhaps
[5:53:32] would have addressed their concerns about if there's
[5:53:36] fewer in each one perhaps compatibility
[5:53:38] with the surrounding neighborhoods.
[5:53:40] But they didn't say that specifically under
[5:53:43] and was it after the first iteration, before the planning
[5:53:49] commission or the second that this little the stormwater
[5:53:54] reach back was added this section of piping
[5:53:58] to the northern section stormwater
[5:54:02] has been a topic from the first visit
[5:54:04] to the Planning Commission and the second visit.
[5:54:07] And this visit.
[5:54:08] So I can't remember exactly what was provided
[5:54:10] when I think each time the applicant has addressed
[5:54:15] their strategies and provided even,
[5:54:17] you know, a response to what they've heard at each
[5:54:20] of those meetings, each time Understood that the stormwater
[5:54:27] piping is something that I simultaneously understand what
[5:54:30] it's trying to accomplish and the specific concern.
[5:54:33] It's trying to speak to.
[5:54:35] But this is just to kind of cede the conversation that will later
[5:54:39] happen.
[5:54:40] I see what it's trying to accomplish right ?
[5:54:42] We know that in the northern part of this parcel
[5:54:44] there are drainage issues.
[5:54:45] And it's trying to make it so that there is clarity
[5:54:48] that the water on the upper part of the parcel
[5:54:51] will actually get to the stormwater retention I get it,
[5:54:54] but I'm also looking at it.
[5:54:56] And I'm seeing if this is creating
[5:54:58] a piece of infrastructure that will need replace and repair,
[5:55:03] which is currently the exact debacle
[5:55:05] that the neighbors are grappling with.
[5:55:09] So this is a point of frustration with me
[5:55:13] that, yes, it's resolving potentially
[5:55:15] part of the problem of stormwater
[5:55:17] pooling on the Northern parcel, but introducing
[5:55:21] another problem which is creating
[5:55:24] a piece of infrastructure that will be on future residents
[5:55:27] to repair replace 20 to 30 years from now.
[5:55:30] Right.
[5:55:31] Like retrenching is expensive.
[5:55:32] It sucks not wants to do it.
[5:55:35] And it's never covered by your insurance
[5:55:38] I assume it's not covered by HOA insurance in so far
[5:55:41] as such a thing exists.
[5:55:42] I don't know.
[5:55:42] Not nature way water.
[5:55:45] I can you.
[5:55:48] I want to make sure I got this correctly.
[5:55:50] There's the amenity area proffered the amenity areas not
[5:55:54] bound to a specific place, but it's notionally
[5:55:58] drawn on our map.
[5:56:00] And it sounds like if I heard correctly, the amenity proper
[5:56:03] is not required based on the number of units
[5:56:07] Is that accurate?
[5:56:09] Yes.
[5:56:11] And i recognize we're not in a position
[5:56:16] to do anything about this.
[5:56:17] I find this frustrating because it
[5:56:20] acts like it is something that is being given given to us
[5:56:24] as the county, as the public, as the representatives
[5:56:27] of the public as something that is protecting
[5:56:29] their interests by potentially creating a problem which
[5:56:32] is removing a level of flexibility from the plan
[5:56:36] to try and make it better in other ways,
[5:56:39] because at some point, they have to accommodate a certain size
[5:56:42] footprint and I don't know, I guess
[5:56:46] i'm bringing this up because it seems like something that we
[5:56:48] as a county need to potentially be better about communicating
[5:56:52] and messaging what we think and want on amenity areas.
[5:56:57] Right.
[5:56:57] Because like, well, look at that thing Ain't
[5:57:00] nobody got to use that for anything, right?
[5:57:02] It's not a meaningful amenity area.
[5:57:04] And I think we can all like in our secret heart of hearts,
[5:57:06] acknowledge that most of these top lots
[5:57:08] aren't being used for a lot of things
[5:57:10] when they're below a certain size.
[5:57:12] And I feel that when I look at the notional amenity area
[5:57:15] here, what it does do is it makes it
[5:57:17] so that you have to negotiate eight massing around that right?
[5:57:22] It makes it so that, oh, if some part of this plan
[5:57:26] changes and allows massing to change and shift,
[5:57:29] you've still got to preserve and retain that piece.
[5:57:33] And so basically they've proffered something
[5:57:36] that makes it harder for the development
[5:57:37] to be good as it goes forward through the next stages
[5:57:41] of approval.
[5:57:41] If it's approved here tonight.
[5:57:43] And that's more just me ranting for a little bit here.
[5:57:46] And this is also interesting because I'm
[5:57:48] realizing the amenity area I've been ranting about
[5:57:50] is not on the screen at all.
[5:57:51] It's on one of the other things.
[5:57:55] Unless i'm tripping, Right.
[5:57:57] It's supposed to be like right there.
[5:57:58] There is there is I think that's all I have at this stage.
[5:58:03] And I have more for the applicant unless I'm sorry.
[5:58:05] Mr. Meyers.
[5:58:06] And they just wouldn't mind back to the stormwater thing.
[5:58:08] I just.
[5:58:09] Yeah, please.
[5:58:09] The points really are is water going to transversal
[5:58:13] on the other property?
[5:58:14] And I think it's one of the concerns
[5:58:16] and we don't think that it will.
[5:58:17] We think that the engineering department is locked in.
[5:58:20] The applicant will be able to keep the water on their site.
[5:58:23] The conveyance system that you're seeing,
[5:58:25] there's sort of like to further illustrate
[5:58:27] how that would be put on to retain on their property That
[5:58:31] will be something that is required by both state
[5:58:33] and local regulations to keep your point about the expense
[5:58:38] that's taken that's going to be with all of the amenities
[5:58:41] that we're looking to for the ordinance,
[5:58:44] whether it's this parcel or any other development
[5:58:46] that we review.
[5:58:47] Sure.
[5:58:48] And remind me is the is the inlet piping,
[5:58:52] is that formally proffered and therefore require moving forward
[5:58:56] or this is notional It's required
[5:58:59] regardless for any property that would develop like this.
[5:59:02] It's covered via ordinance into a Q regulations.
[5:59:04] So there wouldn't it wouldn't there
[5:59:07] wasn't anything any impact identified that a proffer would
[5:59:10] need to address.
[5:59:12] Or the developer would need to address uniquely on this site.
[5:59:15] And that's why you're seeing it on the illustrative plan
[5:59:17] and not on if the previous plan had
[5:59:20] to provide that by ordinance, not by proffer Understood.
[5:59:24] Thank you That's all I have.
[5:59:29] Supervisor Missile.
[5:59:30] Great.
[5:59:31] Thank you.
[5:59:32] A lot of my questions have been answered by staff.
[5:59:34] A bunch.
[5:59:34] I just want to run through.
[5:59:36] So this one's kind of subjective, I guess.
[5:59:39] In addition to changes that you noted
[5:59:42] that were the result of the Planning Commission
[5:59:44] or at least between the Planning Commission recommendation
[5:59:46] and for denial.
[5:59:47] And today, are you aware of any conversations
[5:59:51] the applicants had with the adjacent homeowners?
[5:59:55] I will defer to the applicant on that.
[5:59:58] Sounds good.
[5:59:59] You mentioned the Crozet master plan
[6:00:01] is this area is not changed on the master plan
[6:00:03] since its inception in 2005, correct I heard that correctly,
[6:00:08] yes.
[6:00:08] So I went back to the original cities transect map with the.
[6:00:14] OK.
[6:00:15] And you used or someone use the word feasibility at one point.
[6:00:19] Right.
[6:00:19] And I'm also kind of side note, trying
[6:00:21] to keep separate in my mind site plan related issues and zoning
[6:00:25] issues Right.
[6:00:25] And I think that's a critically important thing
[6:00:28] because some of the stuff we're talking about is really more
[6:00:30] site plan review.
[6:00:31] And I know you guys have mentioned that,
[6:00:33] but in terms of feasibility there's on this plan,
[6:00:37] there's a couple of references to private streets and access.
[6:00:42] And I'm aware of some issues with access easements in order
[6:00:46] for staff to support this plan.
[6:00:49] Did you all confirm them that the access easements
[6:00:52] are actually, in fact, there and legal and available?
[6:00:55] Or does that become discovery in the site plan process?
[6:01:02] So the two main access points are
[6:01:05] from existing, publicly dedicated
[6:01:08] right of way from quarry farm and from Colony Drive.
[6:01:14] And then the easement and Wendy Knoll
[6:01:18] is a private access that extends from little Fox Lane.
[6:01:24] Ultimately up to serve 330 when you know a lane.
[6:01:27] So could you point to that on here just so I'm.
[6:01:30] Yeah, I understand.
[6:01:31] I'm sorry for everybody else.
[6:01:32] So this is what is named Wendy no Lane that comes up
[6:01:36] from little Fox and the easement is for access across the owners.
[6:01:44] The developer of this proposal to serve.
[6:01:47] 330 So it's for their access.
[6:01:53] There isn't anything that we found,
[6:01:57] we can't speak to the private agreements,
[6:02:01] but the access would continue and be available for 330.
[6:02:06] And then, of course, there is potentially
[6:02:11] a crossing of across, across it and improvements potential.
[6:02:16] But we didn't identify any other concerns.
[6:02:23] And to.
[6:02:24] Go ahead.
[6:02:24] Go ahead.
[6:02:25] No.
[6:02:25] After you know, I was just going to say the other identified
[6:02:29] private street on the top of the slide there.
[6:02:31] Yeah, that's another easement area
[6:02:33] that you may be asking about as well.
[6:02:34] That and also to the right where it says Private Street.
[6:02:37] Okay.
[6:02:38] So to the latter one the one and Ralph Colony
[6:02:40] Drive that large part of the reason why that's not
[6:02:43] a public street is you can kind of see there's a full pinch
[6:02:47] point Yeah, that area parcel you know
[6:02:52] the 330 parcel kind of comes in there and creates
[6:02:55] or pinch point.
[6:02:55] That's one of the reasons that we
[6:02:57] weren't able to extend a public street from Colony drive
[6:03:00] because we didn't have the developer didn't have
[6:03:02] the right of way, and we were certainly were
[6:03:03] pushed for a public street in that area.
[6:03:05] And you're talking about the area that's
[6:03:07] marked private street at the top or bottom
[6:03:10] or I was trying to catch you in the order you were coming up
[6:03:12] from the lower one.
[6:03:13] Lower, Right.
[6:03:14] OK.
[6:03:14] Yes.
[6:03:15] Yes.
[6:03:15] And you see that point?
[6:03:16] That's and that is part of the reason why
[6:03:18] you're seeing a private street extended in that area.
[6:03:20] So the private street can be narrower therefore,
[6:03:22] and get by that point, we don't have the 50ft of right away
[6:03:27] in that area or extend a public street.
[6:03:29] There's a private street shown and the private street
[6:03:31] can access three dwelling units three dwelling units, max Yeah,
[6:03:36] Private street access.
[6:03:39] OK.
[6:03:40] Well, there's not a limit to the number
[6:03:44] of private streets per say.
[6:03:47] There is sort of a tier of private streets,
[6:03:50] share driveways would serve to private streets.
[6:03:55] There are certain again, tiers and standards
[6:03:59] based on the number of lots.
[6:04:01] That's two or fewer, 3 to 5 and then five or more.
[6:04:04] It's not prohibited I see based on the number of lots
[6:04:08] that you can't have a private street,
[6:04:09] but they're very specific circumstances
[6:04:11] where private streets are allowed to be served
[6:04:13] in the development areas.
[6:04:15] What unit type and it is set up between agent and planning
[6:04:21] commission approval in some cases,
[6:04:23] planning Commission approval may be
[6:04:24] necessary for a private street Got it.
[6:04:28] And that would be a process.
[6:04:29] They would still have to go through Yes, I
[6:04:33] felt I mentioned in my presentation,
[6:04:35] you may have seen in the PC packet planning commission
[6:04:37] packet a couple of very specific waivers,
[6:04:41] but this is a concept plan.
[6:04:43] And we felt it was more appropriate to go
[6:04:45] through the final process of approval
[6:04:47] for the streets site plan, where we had all of the details
[6:04:50] as you anticipate in my next question.
[6:04:55] Thank you The and the upper which
[6:05:00] is private street at the top with the orange triangle, that's
[6:05:03] another easement right It was in the I
[6:05:07] think it was in a key on one of the drawings that purple area.
[6:05:12] There you go.
[6:05:13] It's purple, not orange This is a that's an access easement.
[6:05:19] And that is an easement that's already
[6:05:24] in place from the planning of quarry Farm.
[6:05:28] Right.
[6:05:28] Okay.
[6:05:29] And a private street would establish the right of way
[6:05:33] for the private street.
[6:05:34] That would serve this north building zone.
[6:05:37] Yeah, wouldn't it?
[6:05:38] Yes.
[6:05:39] Applicant would have to obtain an easement there.
[6:05:41] Right Well, it's there's no triangle there is a yes,
[6:05:46] there is overlap.
[6:05:48] There's a triangle within the triangle Yes.
[6:05:50] Believe is what you're referring to now right here where there is
[6:05:55] and I'm sure the applicant will elaborate further.
[6:05:58] There is quarry Farm, there's right away for Eastern Avenue.
[6:06:02] And then there is quarry Farm, open space,
[6:06:04] and an already granted easement from quarry Farm over there,
[6:06:08] open space, very tiny little triangle within that triangle
[6:06:12] that we've dedicated years ago.
[6:06:14] Just to be clear.
[6:06:15] Got it.
[6:06:16] Thank you.
[6:06:16] And so this may be a question.
[6:06:18] I don't know for counsel that the easement,
[6:06:21] if there are discrepancies or if there
[6:06:23] are issues with the easement, that staff
[6:06:25] is not aware of, when will that be discussed?
[6:06:30] Is that at the site plan where you'll go find?
[6:06:33] They'll have the which easements that you will use any access
[6:06:37] easement if, for example, coming in at the bottom right hand
[6:06:39] corner, if the pinch point is too narrow
[6:06:41] and they can't fit a private street in there
[6:06:43] for some reason, that would be determined.
[6:06:45] That site plan.
[6:06:47] Right.
[6:06:47] OK Talked about interconnecting streets a little bit.
[6:06:57] So the stormwater i mean Yeah I think this was mentioned that
[6:07:03] just by what I mean by regulation stormwater cannot
[6:07:06] spill over to adjacent properties right?
[6:07:08] They have to capture it on their own property.
[6:07:10] That's going to be a site plan requirement
[6:07:12] Quality and quantity have to be captured on their site plan.
[6:07:17] Are there any i may have missed this?
[6:07:19] Are there any tree preservation requirements and/or proffers
[6:07:25] or offers in this plan?
[6:07:28] There are the there are the proffers in the the
[6:07:33] for the buffers.
[6:07:34] There aren't there buffer piece.
[6:07:36] But not any specific tree preservation areas.
[6:07:39] No, there wasn't a tree conservation plan that one.
[6:07:42] That's what I was looking for.
[6:07:43] Got it.
[6:07:43] Thanks.
[6:07:47] On page nine nine there's a note in the upper left.
[6:07:53] That's kind of cut off.
[6:07:55] No specific improvements are shown
[6:07:56] to demonstrate feasibility of concept that
[6:07:58] are for demonstration purposes only.
[6:08:01] Site layout is regulated by sheet for concept plan
[6:08:06] Can you go to sheet for this is sheet for yes.
[6:08:11] Sheet five and 6.
[6:08:12] In the upper right.
[6:08:14] It says of this is thank you.
[6:08:22] This is actually sheet five is the same as sheet four.
[6:08:25] Except that the blue and red arrows
[6:08:29] are shown to demonstrate the vehicular and pedestrian
[6:08:34] circulation I don't have sheet for in the slide show,
[6:08:38] but it's very similar to.
[6:08:40] OK.
[6:08:40] So that would be what governs not the other one.
[6:08:43] Previous one.
[6:08:44] Got it.
[6:08:45] And i just want to make sure I'm getting this right.
[6:08:50] So the 11 dwelling units, Max, the north and the 11 dwelling
[6:08:55] units, max on the south can only total up to 18 dwelling units.
[6:08:59] Right Yes.
[6:09:00] Is there anything that's preventing them
[6:09:02] from putting in 18 dwelling units in the north and nine
[6:09:05] at the bottom?
[6:09:06] Yes Okay.
[6:09:08] That's that is this plan and the proffer and the proffer.
[6:09:13] OK.
[6:09:13] Got it.
[6:09:14] Another we put our total on the site.
[6:09:17] Yeah.
[6:09:17] And no more than 11 on either the upper or lower.
[6:09:20] One of the like ten at the upper one they
[6:09:23] could put eight in the lower one.
[6:09:24] That type of effect Got it.
[6:09:26] Thank you.
[6:09:31] Just make sure I'm getting everything
[6:09:41] I think that covers it.
[6:09:42] Thank you.
[6:09:43] Supervisor Stoker thank you for the presentation
[6:09:48] and my my understanding is that the residents would
[6:09:53] like fewer homes in the north section
[6:09:57] and more in the South section.
[6:09:59] Correct I am not sure if that was
[6:10:04] One of the public comments in the minutes or not.
[6:10:06] OK, It wasn't.
[6:10:07] But when I went out there and met with them,
[6:10:10] that seemed to be the desire for.
[6:10:12] And the information we're getting the emails
[6:10:14] were getting that they wanted more.
[6:10:17] The Southern part, but my understanding.
[6:10:22] There's they can't have more in the southern part without having
[6:10:27] the private street be a public road.
[6:10:29] Correct.
[6:10:31] The southern area does bring challenges in terms of access.
[6:10:36] Right.
[6:10:36] And if it was a public road, if they had enough area,
[6:10:40] then they could put more homes in the southern area.
[6:10:44] But they it has to be a private street because
[6:10:47] of the size, the limited access they have there, correct?
[6:10:51] Yes Okay.
[6:10:53] And I think at the site plan level,
[6:10:56] they're going to actually decide how many buildings they want
[6:11:00] in the northern part, how many they want in the southern part
[6:11:03] Correct.
[6:11:04] Right now, they have that flexibility.
[6:11:06] It's 18 total, but they can there's 22.
[6:11:09] But they can only put in 18.
[6:11:11] But they can do any combination they want as long as it fits.
[6:11:16] Yes, that's okay.
[6:11:18] Write right And if you could go to I think it's nine number,
[6:11:23] slide nine Okay.
[6:11:27] So the little green rectangle to the left of the northern path,
[6:11:33] that's amenity area.
[6:11:35] Do you know what that with the size of that is about?
[6:11:39] Or should I say again, I would ask the applicant to have that.
[6:11:42] Oh i see.
[6:11:43] Applicant I think it.
[6:11:44] Yeah.
[6:11:45] Pardon.
[6:11:46] I would ask the applicant.
[6:11:47] OK.
[6:11:48] Okay.
[6:11:48] And then there is a path, a walking path
[6:11:51] from the northern part to the southern part.
[6:11:56] And that's so that they can access either Corey Farm road.
[6:12:02] Would that lead to the grocery store along
[6:12:05] with going through the private street Colony Drive?
[6:12:10] What would both of those go to the local grocery
[6:12:14] store, which is, I think about a half mile away Yes.
[6:12:18] There is a well with the Eastern Avenue
[6:12:22] that would provide a fill in that would provide
[6:12:26] the pedestrian facilities.
[6:12:27] Right now, the paved path on the court on quarry Farm Road
[6:12:31] starts down at Little Fox.
[6:12:34] But there is a complete sidewalk system within Liberty Hall.
[6:12:37] But it could provide for opportunity and either direction
[6:12:41] Okay.
[6:12:42] Got it.
[6:12:42] And I understood.
[6:12:44] Correct me if I'm wrong, is that on the northern part
[6:12:48] on the right hand side, right next to Liberty Hall
[6:12:52] that the applicant intends to keep as many trees as they can
[6:13:01] They have indicated a willingness
[6:13:03] but haven't committed with us a specific conservation
[6:13:06] plan to which individual trees will be saved
[6:13:09] and when would that be done At the site?
[6:13:12] At the site plan.
[6:13:13] So a lot of things are going to happen at the site plan.
[6:13:15] OK.
[6:13:16] Those are all my questions right now.
[6:13:18] Thank you.
[6:13:19] All right I'm just trying I have some questions
[6:13:26] I think I'm going to hold until we hear
[6:13:27] from the open the public hearing and hear
[6:13:29] from the from the public and the applicant to ask them to follow.
[6:13:34] If there's no objection.
[6:13:35] Were there any other questions for staff before we do so?
[6:13:37] I have a couple.
[6:13:39] Yeah.
[6:13:40] All right So in your description of further clarity
[6:13:44] on the private street in the rural area,
[6:13:47] the third unit requires a wider acceptable road.
[6:13:51] But you're saying that now in the growth area between three
[6:13:55] and five units has some other private road possibility?
[6:13:59] We haven't That is the ordinance refers
[6:14:02] to meeting Vidor's standards are it
[6:14:05] just flexibility in the design and elements of the road
[6:14:11] You know, for example, they recognize
[6:14:13] they may not be able to get a sidewalk section on both sides.
[6:14:16] They may be seeking sidewalk and street tree waivers on one side.
[6:14:20] So there will be the travel lanes will meet standards.
[6:14:26] It's where they may see classic flexibility
[6:14:30] in the entire streets section.
[6:14:33] So the window lane, that's currently like 11ft wide,
[6:14:36] the whole thing that would be expected to go to 26.
[6:14:40] So the standard for a shared driveway,
[6:14:42] which serves only two lots, is ten feet wide for pavement.
[6:14:47] But okay, my picture will probably i
[6:14:50] can pull up a picture.
[6:14:52] But anyway.
[6:14:52] But it's now going to be expected
[6:14:54] to do three or whatever.
[6:14:56] I mean, there are three now on this tiny little
[6:15:00] so they may feel hearing access.
[6:15:02] They're not necessarily with the two access points.
[6:15:08] It doesn't for example, windy no Lane
[6:15:11] if it only serves its existing and the lots have been created
[6:15:17] so it's the number of new lots when you get
[6:15:19] into the subdivision ordinance.
[6:15:20] So but it is a 20 foot access easement
[6:15:25] that could be widened within that 20 foot access easement.
[6:15:28] But the pavement width right now may maybe narrower
[6:15:34] So they would be allowed to pave right
[6:15:35] out to the end of their easement to get a fire truck in there.
[6:15:40] For example.
[6:15:41] But if that's.
[6:15:42] Yes OK And I guess I'm just the word feasibility
[6:15:50] and decided that site plan is still being mentioned every five
[6:15:54] minutes here.
[6:15:54] And that is a great uncertainty for everybody in the room.
[6:15:58] So it's impacting the applicant as well.
[6:16:01] So I think as much certainty as we can get during this process
[6:16:05] will be really helpful for everyone going forward.
[6:16:08] And I continue to ask questions.
[6:16:10] Thank you Any other.
[6:16:14] All right.
[6:16:14] We'll open the public hearing.
[6:16:16] Do we have folks signed up?
[6:16:17] Claudette?
[6:16:21] And if you're in the room and you have not signed up,
[6:16:23] you will need to do so.
[6:16:25] But the sign up does remain open.
[6:16:27] It's down over here to the house right Okay.
[6:16:34] We have in-person and online all the
[6:16:36] read the rules of the road speakers
[6:16:38] are limited to one up here.
[6:16:40] There was a question here Go ahead.
[6:16:43] You're good.
[6:16:44] Okay.
[6:16:45] Speakers are limited to one appearance
[6:16:46] of up to three minutes.
[6:16:47] Applicants are allowed ten minutes
[6:16:48] for their presentation and five minutes for rebuttal.
[6:16:51] At the close of the hearing In person, speakers
[6:16:53] will be heard first, followed by online, online participants
[6:16:56] coordinated by the clerk to ensure equal treatment
[6:16:59] and courtesy for all speakers.
[6:17:00] The board requests that the following guidelines
[6:17:01] be observed.
[6:17:02] Please state your name.
[6:17:03] And if you live now Monroe County,
[6:17:05] your magisterial district comments
[6:17:06] should be directed to the board as a whole.
[6:17:08] Written statement to supporting materials
[6:17:10] may be provided to the clerk online.
[6:17:12] Participants may also submit comments to the comment portal
[6:17:15] or by email to the clerk If representing a group
[6:17:18] or organization, and you may ask others
[6:17:19] present to raise their hands in recognition.
[6:17:22] Speakers may not share unused time with another speaker
[6:17:25] back and forth debate is not permitted.
[6:17:27] And speakers should not speak from their seat
[6:17:29] or out of turn for in-person speakers.
[6:17:31] The podium timer will guide your time.
[6:17:32] Green indicate your time has begun.
[6:17:34] Yellow means one minute remains in red
[6:17:36] indicates your time has expired.
[6:17:38] Online participants will be notified when time has expired
[6:17:41] and microphones will be muted shortly thereafter.
[6:17:44] All comments are recorded, live streamed and published
[6:17:46] on the county website.
[6:17:48] A couple of notes.
[6:17:48] The sign up period does not close
[6:17:50] once public comment begins, speakers
[6:17:54] may sign up to speak during the duration of the public comment
[6:17:56] period.
[6:17:58] The podium is adjustable.
[6:17:59] Speakers are encouraged to raise or lower it.
[6:18:01] So they are able to speak directly into the microphone
[6:18:05] that where we got the applicant first.
[6:18:08] So we'll bring the applicant forward for the presentation
[6:18:10] and then we go to our.
[6:18:12] That's right, public comments Speakers over here.
[6:18:16] There.
[6:18:16] Thank you.
[6:18:19] Good evening.
[6:18:20] You got your ten minutes, Justin.
[6:18:22] Thank you.
[6:18:23] Good evening, everyone.
[6:18:24] I'm supporting Justin Champagne engineer for this project.
[6:18:28] I'm representing both Harrington and a friend of mine
[6:18:30] and the owner of this Pride property.
[6:18:32] Let me see if I can get this started.
[6:18:35] There's a lot of good questions asked in this lead up
[6:18:40] to the discussion here.
[6:18:42] I will try to answer further.
[6:18:43] Anything else and be happy to, of course, answer questions
[6:18:46] at the end.
[6:18:46] So the property here, Sean, you've seen this on the map
[6:18:51] to for freshers or between Cory Farm Liberty Hall
[6:18:54] and you see the Harris Teeter there.
[6:18:56] Hello.
[6:18:56] That is sort of a center that that area that we
[6:18:59] talk about as the center of development
[6:19:02] where you want to have your connectivity getting to it.
[6:19:07] Our quest is 18 units on 3.1, 4, six acres.
[6:19:10] That's about 5.7 years.
[6:19:12] Thank you.
[6:19:12] Just under six, which is the comprehensive plan
[6:19:15] recommendation here.
[6:19:17] As was noted, we have our 20% affordable housing and provide
[6:19:21] and it is indeed in walking proximity to the shops.
[6:19:24] It clearly on this project will enhance
[6:19:28] the mix of units in the neighborhood in a higher density
[6:19:31] compared to quarry farms and sparrow
[6:19:35] Hill which were developed.
[6:19:36] It's purely single family dwellings
[6:19:39] that main update since the Planning Commission mean
[6:19:42] that the 526 meeting was the addition of additional
[6:19:45] was adding buffers and increased setback on the Liberty Hall side
[6:19:49] I was one of the details of that with the floor
[6:19:51] plan, some additional stormwater management details.
[6:19:54] And then I'll go back one more meeting.
[6:19:56] You heard some of those changes at the February one.
[6:19:58] I think the big one was clarifying the shared use path.
[6:20:03] We had a little bit of a unclear solution
[6:20:06] to how we were going to get folks connected on the site.
[6:20:09] At the first Planning Commission meeting.
[6:20:10] And so we worked the staff and I,
[6:20:11] I think a very good solution for connectivity for the site
[6:20:15] and that was the main focus of the first planning Commission
[6:20:20] meeting.
[6:20:20] The amenity requirements that folks spoke of really, really
[6:20:23] came out of response to the planning Commission request
[6:20:26] after they heard from the residents
[6:20:28] thinking that we needed amenities It is indeed
[6:20:30] a double edged sword that the folks who live here ultimately
[6:20:33] pay for those as their cost.
[6:20:35] But I think that this particular area is not.
[6:20:38] It's meets the ordinance requirements around 2000ft².
[6:20:42] There's a certain number of square feet per unit two,
[6:20:45] you're required to do in Section 416.
[6:20:47] And so we proffered basically to follow
[6:20:48] that as though we had more than 30 units, even though we have
[6:20:52] fewer, as the code says 30 enough,
[6:20:54] you have this requirement, our 18 would trigger it.
[6:20:57] We proffered it anyway.
[6:20:58] Essentially still amortize about this for a moment.
[6:21:02] But I want to clarify something.
[6:21:03] We don't believe this is a zoning issue.
[6:21:05] We know it's a topic of interest for everybody
[6:21:07] because it sounds like there's a big expense coming
[6:21:09] for those folks that HOA maintaining upon the pond.
[6:21:12] It's kind of off page north of us
[6:21:15] where here is the limit of our property.
[6:21:18] So water currently does drain that way,
[6:21:20] is kind of a divisive issue in front of Hatcher here.
[6:21:22] This orange drains this way along the site,
[6:21:24] drains this way to our stormwater pond,
[6:21:26] goes and has been discussed, you know,
[6:21:29] whether we want to or not we have
[6:21:32] to meet the D EMQQ mandated regulations for stormwater
[6:21:35] management.
[6:21:36] We cannot discharge large additional runoff
[6:21:38] to our neighbor's property.
[6:21:39] In fact, we have to reduce it So it goes
[6:21:41] to our neighbor's property.
[6:21:43] Ironically, the only caveat around the only loophole
[6:21:46] to that requirement is if you develop a single family house,
[6:21:50] less than one acre of disturbance
[6:21:52] So if this is not zoned, one could
[6:21:55] clear all the trees in here.
[6:21:56] Take all of the tall grass out, convert it into driveway,
[6:21:59] is a large house, a 6,000 square foot house,
[6:22:02] and you haven't required to do any stormwater mitigation.
[6:22:04] That's literally the only way you get around that.
[6:22:06] So with this proposal, what are we going forward with?
[6:22:09] More than one house permit?
[6:22:11] Those requirements surrounding the site,
[6:22:13] You've got a mix of single family.
[6:22:16] You have some townhomes very similar to Liberty Hall.
[6:22:20] Interesting map here shows the growth area
[6:22:22] immediately adjacent to the center.
[6:22:25] You'll see a predominantly single family mix
[6:22:28] And so that's why we view that the six units nacre
[6:22:30] the 5.7 units nacre here promoting townhomes
[6:22:33] or attached product provides more housing opportunity
[6:22:37] and a lower price point.
[6:22:38] Housing opportunity for folks who
[6:22:40] desire to live within walking distance of those amenities.
[6:22:43] So comprehensive plan talks in numerous ways
[6:22:45] about providing density near these centers.
[6:22:48] We're not above the comprehensive plan density.
[6:22:50] We feel it's appropriate to be right about that.
[6:22:52] For all those reasons Here's a quick illustration of that two
[6:22:57] shows that the walking shared is a part of the description.
[6:23:00] This is the walking shed from our site.
[6:23:02] And you see it picks up the ten minute walk and shed.
[6:23:05] There's two years that we all the things that
[6:23:07] are amenities for folks.
[6:23:09] This is the point I'll stop for a minute here
[6:23:11] is the red line here is where the comp plans show
[6:23:15] a potential public street connection county drive through.
[6:23:18] There's a couple of issues with that.
[6:23:20] One is the right of way.
[6:23:21] We don't have two.
[6:23:22] Is the grade approaching from the end of our site
[6:23:26] down is very difficult to recreate Tyria We looked at this
[6:23:30] and said to ourselves, you know, it's
[6:23:33] not I know it's been drawn now, but eventually there's
[6:23:36] an Eastern connector coming this way, which you are working hard
[6:23:38] to get built. There is this Oak Bluffs development
[6:23:41] that on that last application plan
[6:23:43] showed a picture connection right here.
[6:23:46] So that closed the loop with an automobile.
[6:23:48] But if i live over here.
[6:23:50] And I want to take my bike over to here
[6:23:52] or here, I do not want to go out and bike on route to 50,
[6:23:56] down to hear Cedar.
[6:23:58] So the shared use path we install here
[6:23:59] will be a public shared use path that allowed folks
[6:24:02] to get from this neighborhood through our site
[6:24:05] and over to that center.
[6:24:06] So we think that was the right solution for connectivity
[6:24:09] for neighbor.
[6:24:09] We want the staff to develop that.
[6:24:11] That's part of what took some time for this.
[6:24:15] So here's the concept plan.
[6:24:16] This is the sheet for haircuts.
[6:24:18] And this is what you're voting on is this drawing.
[6:24:20] And there's a lot of hang up at the planning commission talking
[6:24:22] about would there be townhomes here
[6:24:25] and how far they apart from the other homes and the reality
[6:24:29] is we don't know what we're going to put there I know it's
[6:24:32] a desire of everyone to see.
[6:24:34] And you're accustomed to seeing large developed plans, right?
[6:24:36] Ten, 20, 30 acres where I have a neighborhood model.
[6:24:39] So all the streets and the houses,
[6:24:41] right as it were, working infill development.
[6:24:44] And I think we had the lesson of the 999 project
[6:24:46] to go from there with where we got the zoning approval was
[6:24:49] very specific for two acres and we had to go back and change it.
[6:24:53] But at the time it got zoned, the market
[6:24:55] had shifted We're asking for here is are six zoning.
[6:24:59] You have a plan for six units, an anchor.
[6:25:01] We're asking for your zoning ordinance
[6:25:03] that accommodates that density.
[6:25:05] The regulations about what gets built,
[6:25:07] the setbacks and those things are within those codes already.
[6:25:10] And we think they're appropriate What
[6:25:12] we've done here and the neighbors,
[6:25:14] we've got this ten foot buffer zone
[6:25:16] It has plantings or preservation of trees,
[6:25:19] and we've added additional setback on this side
[6:25:22] because these particular dwellings are quite
[6:25:24] close to the property line.
[6:25:26] I'll go with that at a moment.
[6:25:27] But so these are the critical elements for the 11 units here
[6:25:31] that came out of an earlier concept.
[6:25:33] I think we've maybe had 14 units at one time on North Side
[6:25:37] and it was desire to see those split more evenly.
[6:25:39] So 18 and half is 99.
[6:25:41] So we want a little bit of flexibility.
[6:25:43] And that was the original 11 and 11.
[6:25:45] So we can put those numbers there.
[6:25:46] We want to split it like the Planning Commission asked,
[6:25:48] but we also need to leave ourselves all flexibility
[6:25:52] And the real issue about, you know, the density
[6:25:56] is really that the size of the house, right?
[6:25:58] If we have a buildable zone, as you see here, right on the north
[6:26:01] side and you put townhomes here because it's six townhomes here,
[6:26:05] we could fit three large houses there
[6:26:07] it wouldn't really change the building, massing
[6:26:10] or how close they were to the neighbors
[6:26:12] to change the housing type.
[6:26:13] Basically.
[6:26:14] So this allows the housing type to have flexibility.
[6:26:17] But really speaks to the issues that are brought up,
[6:26:20] which is what's the relationship of these buildings
[6:26:22] to each other Here's the plan.
[6:26:26] The concept planners.
[6:26:27] I go back to the questions on this.
[6:26:29] If we need to go on, but this is not proffered.
[6:26:32] This is for illustration of what might be,
[6:26:34] but we are not guaranteeing things
[6:26:36] on this plan This is kind of fascinating.
[6:26:40] This is the site plan for Liberty Hall.
[6:26:43] They actually have a reduced by neighborhood model, a 15 foot
[6:26:46] building setback for us So we standard have a 20 foot setback.
[6:26:51] We've actually offered 25ft.
[6:26:53] So this developer got five feet of extra land to build houses.
[6:26:57] We've lost Five feet of land and accommodation
[6:26:59] of those residents who lived there.
[6:27:01] That's the reason the structure is being so close.
[6:27:06] Lastly interesting tidbit here.
[6:27:08] So we have access to historical maps from if I
[6:27:12] had Zoom with them to see.
[6:27:13] And if you zoom this out, it was just farmland here
[6:27:17] because this is 1957, this house here
[6:27:19] is the one that was recently taken down when, you know,
[6:27:21] all incomes are right through here 330 is right here.
[6:27:25] That's what was here in 1957, 1980.
[6:27:30] The House that we're retaining is here
[6:27:34] That's the other house there.
[6:27:35] The access actually this way to a private road, some kind 1990.
[6:27:41] You'll see here there was a structure here.
[6:27:44] These houses.
[6:27:45] And so this is actually a redevelopment
[6:27:48] This area is essentially was no environmental features here.
[6:27:50] There's nothing here because it was,
[6:27:52] in fact the original development area.
[6:27:56] And then it was developed around the subdivisions
[6:27:58] that you see around it.
[6:27:59] So this is a redo.
[6:28:01] All of these we're trying to use the Kern County ordinance This
[6:28:04] is the plan to have to vote on tonight
[6:28:08] And we think this meets all the requirements are applicable.
[6:28:11] Happy to answer any further questions,
[6:28:12] you will have about this.
[6:28:14] All right.
[6:28:15] Thank you, Justin.
[6:28:16] Questions for the applicant supervisor malik.
[6:28:19] OK, Let's see Some of you have mentioned the 20% affordability.
[6:28:29] How does the application address the long term Affordable
[6:28:34] Because there will be people who get in
[6:28:36] to purchase by the skin of their teeth financially
[6:28:39] and then the assessor means for hold up
[6:28:43] holding all of the requirements for all the private features
[6:28:45] that you've designed into this are
[6:28:47] going to be a burden for those families going forward.
[6:28:50] How does how do you approach that question?
[6:28:55] Well, no matter where I think you go in our county,
[6:28:57] you're going to have stormwater and road maintenance cost.
[6:29:00] I think it's going to be baked in.
[6:29:01] Someone everywhere that the for profit affordability
[6:29:04] is the problem, right?
[6:29:05] It's the housing.
[6:29:06] Our moral standard.
[6:29:07] There is an argument for trying to reduce, you know,
[6:29:10] what these costs may be.
[6:29:12] And I don't know when the rent.
[6:29:14] So in a rental environment, the rental units right the landlord
[6:29:18] pays the cost, the rent is fixed.
[6:29:20] So the rental environment, you can't even
[6:29:23] unless I have to incur expenses, repairing a road
[6:29:25] or fixing a pipe, I can't charge more.
[6:29:27] Rent and housing out more allows me.
[6:29:29] So in that scenario there would be
[6:29:31] no cost passed on I don't know.
[6:29:34] I guess if the scenario where I buy in my,
[6:29:36] you know, subsidized housing price, I buy my house.
[6:29:39] And over the years, the HOA dues increase.
[6:29:41] I think that probably is a cost added to me
[6:29:44] but I don't think it's a cost at all unique to the site.
[6:29:46] This is going to be a cost in any practically any development
[6:29:49] to provide affordable housing types.
[6:29:51] Is there going to be townhomes?
[6:29:52] And they're all built on private streets.
[6:29:54] So I think that's a thing to think about,
[6:29:57] but not unique to the site.
[6:30:00] Thank you.
[6:30:01] So for now, Supervisor Duncan I have no questions.
[6:30:06] Supervisor Pruitt I actually don't
[6:30:09] think I have further questions.
[6:30:10] Thank you.
[6:30:11] Supervisor Missile thanks.
[6:30:14] You alluded at the beginning of your presentation.
[6:30:16] Maybe touched on this or you said
[6:30:18] you're going to come back to that in the future.
[6:30:20] And that is the adjacent setback.
[6:30:22] Can you talk a little bit more about that please?
[6:30:26] Sure.
[6:30:26] And so it's interesting here actually, to go back to our plan
[6:30:30] here.
[6:30:31] So we have property on this side here next to Liberty Hall.
[6:30:34] This houses here.
[6:30:34] It's 25 foot setback.
[6:30:36] The standard is 24.
[6:30:38] Pretty much every county zoning district like this.
[6:30:41] The one the state and the zoning was approved by the board
[6:30:44] because I think maybe probably before all you all were here,
[6:30:47] I think there was a 15 foot proffered setback here.
[6:30:52] So you can ask in a neighborhood model three, reduce setback.
[6:30:56] So essentially, part of the reason
[6:30:57] these houses are close to the neighbors and the planning
[6:31:00] commission brought this up is it feels
[6:31:02] like it's tight is because there was a special disposition
[6:31:05] to give them an extra five feet, which
[6:31:07] not if you bought those houses, it wasn't their doing for
[6:31:09] say Right.
[6:31:10] But the developer of that project gained more sellable.
[6:31:13] Real estate for building larger houses based on that.
[6:31:16] So we simply said, we don't like, we have the room,
[6:31:19] we'll give up that five feet on our side
[6:31:21] to keep that standard setback house to house.
[6:31:24] That would have been if they had their 20 foot Got it.
[6:31:30] OK.
[6:31:31] Thank you.
[6:31:31] That makes sense.
[6:31:32] Can you go back to your drawing please?
[6:31:34] Yeah.
[6:31:35] There.
[6:31:37] We've talked a lot about both tonight
[6:31:40] and with neighbors and together with the applicant the call
[6:31:46] it carrying capacity of that northern area
[6:31:49] feels it feels tight.
[6:31:50] Right.
[6:31:51] And so how many units are there?
[6:31:53] One, two, three, Four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten,
[6:31:57] 11, ten, 11.
[6:31:58] There Then you mentioned 9 and 9.
[6:32:01] And I know you want flexibility.
[6:32:02] And I get that Is there any flexibility
[6:32:07] on that northern development area
[6:32:09] to reduce from what you're showing here below nine
[6:32:16] for below 11?
[6:32:20] What's your what was your thought process around that?
[6:32:22] Just that's just one of the big areas to discuss.
[6:32:25] Well, I think I think I guess that to answer
[6:32:28] that sort of a matter of what's the concern?
[6:32:30] Because if it's really if it's the spatial distance.
[6:32:33] Right.
[6:32:33] If I if I simply if I said, you know what,
[6:32:36] I'm going to make these guys 40 foot wide triplexes right.
[6:32:40] 1 to 3 units.
[6:32:42] I've lost three units right there.
[6:32:43] I'm down to eight.
[6:32:44] I don't think that's materially different than the townhomes.
[6:32:48] Essentially And so that's really the Planning Commission
[6:32:51] talked about that the neighbors have talked about that.
[6:32:53] And my response was, well here's I'm
[6:32:57] proffering right and proper in these buffer zones
[6:33:00] and increased setback.
[6:33:01] So no matter what gets built here,
[6:33:03] we're trying to be respectful of that space, even
[6:33:05] though normally residential, residential, that would not
[6:33:08] be required.
[6:33:09] We don't know what's going to get built there.
[6:33:11] Exactly, but we know that whatever
[6:33:13] it is, the setback in my mind is more important than, let's say,
[6:33:18] how many people live there from the neighbors standpoint,
[6:33:21] I think from maybe the county standpoint, argue
[6:33:23] more people living there is better
[6:33:26] We should point to higher density.
[6:33:27] We just don't know which side of the road
[6:33:29] that ends up on right this moment.
[6:33:30] OK Fair enough.
[6:33:32] Understood.
[6:33:32] Right there.
[6:33:33] We have a ten foot buffer zone between 330,
[6:33:37] your adjoining property boundary.
[6:33:38] So why not 25?
[6:33:40] There ?
[6:33:42] Well, as far as a building setback, yeah.
[6:33:45] Oh, that would be a pretty substantial side setback.
[6:33:49] The side setbacks, five feet currently.
[6:33:51] So we've doubled it.
[6:33:52] You have the rear setback of 25.
[6:33:55] Right.
[6:33:55] The rear setback is correct.
[6:33:57] So we use the back of 25 on this side.
[6:34:00] You're calling that your side yard?
[6:34:02] This is the side yard.
[6:34:04] Yes.
[6:34:04] That's orientation here.
[6:34:06] If the lots were revised per the you
[6:34:08] know, the ordinance to say face this forward away from this.
[6:34:12] And this was their backyard.
[6:34:13] The ordinance would require a 20 foot rear setback.
[6:34:16] So there is a layout change with the back of those units faced
[6:34:20] 330 a 20 foot setback would be required and my ten foot buffer,
[6:34:24] but we wouldn't be able to hold a ten foot rear.
[6:34:28] And we have to follow the ordinance, an ordinance.
[6:34:31] So you voluntarily went from 20 foot rear setback to 25 foot
[6:34:34] roost that back correct on the appetite
[6:34:36] increase the ten foot buffer zone on the side yard
[6:34:39] whereas it becomes a point of is that a reasonable.
[6:34:42] You know request for density is particularly in side
[6:34:45] the side of the same.
[6:34:47] There's ordinance would not call for that kind of stuff
[6:34:50] are normal.
[6:34:51] Yes i feel like we've come up with a reasonable solution
[6:34:55] here that preserves possible easy
[6:34:57] to provide infill housing for people
[6:34:58] and provide some respectful buffers to our neighbors Got it.
[6:35:03] Okay I think well, I'll just ask.
[6:35:13] So we've talked about easements, access easements
[6:35:16] Do you see any yellow flags, any concerns
[6:35:19] with being able to access as you've drawn on these plans?
[6:35:22] No, no.
[6:35:23] And just a few things to dig out clarify.
[6:35:26] So that here we have a platted, one recorded access easement
[6:35:30] through here.
[6:35:31] There's an access easement.
[6:35:32] As I said, this is the back of the north side.
[6:35:35] There's really no lane here is an existing
[6:35:39] road serving three units.
[6:35:41] And that is why you see in our concept here,
[6:35:44] I think no matter what happens, only this house this house.
[6:35:48] And this house remain on the windy Knoll road
[6:35:51] because this is like a nonconforming road basically.
[6:35:53] So there are a lot of lots that use this currently We don't we
[6:35:58] would have to upgrade that is mentioned to use it.
[6:36:01] And there may be other easement issues there.
[6:36:03] So the intention is for that to simply has always
[6:36:04] served three houses and it will remain
[6:36:06] to serve three houses over here we
[6:36:09] have 35 or so feet of frontage along the public road.
[6:36:13] So we can get a private road off that we
[6:36:17] would say we need to continue the sidewalk.
[6:36:18] You know, take this whole triangle.
[6:36:20] It's more complicated and nothing we're doing here
[6:36:23] prohibits a later time.
[6:36:25] My client working a deal with those neighbors
[6:36:27] and acquiring a triangle and building that right.
[6:36:29] We're setting the zoning.
[6:36:30] We could always come back and put a public street here,
[6:36:33] if that can be worked out.
[6:36:35] So there's not a proper private street.
[6:36:38] It's a zoning proffer.
[6:36:41] And the buffers we could if a triangle is required,
[6:36:44] a public street could be built, I believe.
[6:36:46] So there's a veto.
[6:36:47] I would have to prove it.
[6:36:48] Obviously So if I'm hearing you correctly
[6:36:53] I may not be the connection, the road,
[6:36:56] the pathway that runs through there Here.
[6:36:59] No, sorry.
[6:37:00] The portion of the path.
[6:37:01] Oh, sorry.
[6:37:01] Yes.
[6:37:02] It looks like a dead end on the right at the property line.
[6:37:06] That's right.
[6:37:07] Yes.
[6:37:07] That's so that is the edge obviously, of our property line
[6:37:12] right there.
[6:37:13] Just triangle.
[6:37:14] So shared use path touches the public right
[6:37:16] of way at column drive.
[6:37:18] So if you were coming to another sidewalk
[6:37:21] there without having to acquire the access correct.
[6:37:25] Okay.
[6:37:28] And then the last question.
[6:37:29] I know tree preservation has come up.
[6:37:30] We've got an arborist report, etc., etc..
[6:37:33] There's concern about where that public page path, a foot piece,
[6:37:37] paved path goes through Is there the possibility
[6:37:43] of retaining that as green space,
[6:37:45] keeping that tree buffer there and moving
[6:37:47] that shared path closer in?
[6:37:49] Well, the idea of this.
[6:37:52] And if you've been out there and you have a nice land
[6:37:55] is really flat right here.
[6:37:57] I agree So what I liked about this
[6:37:59] was that I could put the path in amongst those trees
[6:38:02] and have the green space, the path within it,
[6:38:04] so that the path is neither in the side yard of this house
[6:38:08] or the side yard of the house.
[6:38:10] That's the origin of this design.
[6:38:11] So would you be willing to create a conservation
[6:38:13] plan for the trees that are in there?
[6:38:15] Well, if we decide to save.
[6:38:17] And we have to, that's an ordinance requirement.
[6:38:19] We'd have we'd have to do that.
[6:38:21] At this moment, we have to go survey the trees,
[6:38:23] figure out new way of keeping what could be done around them,
[6:38:26] etc..
[6:38:28] I think we feel like what we have.
[6:38:31] We can create a path.
[6:38:32] We'll save some trees, even mine.
[6:38:34] We're financially motivated to save trees
[6:38:36] because we get a bonus canopy for those, right?
[6:38:39] The county says we build this.
[6:38:41] We have to provide an extra canopy for every tree
[6:38:44] we save we get a bonus of that.
[6:38:46] So we are we will do that if it makes sense.
[6:38:49] But some of the trees back in here
[6:38:50] are our trees and the Bradford pear in the middle.
[6:38:52] Some of these are good trees.
[6:38:53] Some of them are ones that are kind of weedy that
[6:38:55] will maybe be better off.
[6:38:57] Planted a new.
[6:38:57] There are some beautiful trees in there, though.
[6:38:59] Oh, yeah OK.
[6:39:03] Thank you.
[6:39:04] That's all.
[6:39:05] Supervisor office for currently So I understand that.
[6:39:09] Wendy.
[6:39:09] Wendy.
[6:39:10] No Wendy.
[6:39:11] Noel can only serve us because it's a private street.
[6:39:15] Private road.
[6:39:15] Right.
[6:39:16] Can only service three homes.
[6:39:17] Correct?
[6:39:18] That's right, yes.
[6:39:20] So it is that the reason why you only have three homes on colony
[6:39:24] Drive?
[6:39:25] Because that private street could also
[6:39:28] only access three roads.
[6:39:30] This is actually some as five as a property line here
[6:39:33] in the Middle.
[6:39:33] So there's two kind of duplexes here and a single family here.
[6:39:36] So this current concept, again, just a concept, but the thought
[6:39:39] is we have five here to have been
[6:39:42] historically here, plus a 330.
[6:39:45] Make make three in total on wendy Nolan.
[6:39:49] Okay.
[6:39:49] So on the private street, that would be three buildings.
[6:39:53] It could be three buildings.
[6:39:54] Is it again, this is laid out.
[6:39:56] This is not proffered, but that was
[6:39:58] a concept that's an idea that could come to fruition.
[6:40:01] OK.
[6:40:01] OK.
[6:40:02] And once again you could put more homes in there.
[6:40:06] If you were able to build an actual public street
[6:40:10] and potentially in a private street.
[6:40:12] Also, we have to ask for certain waivers and things like that.
[6:40:14] That's a site plan item that I think
[6:40:16] have said they can't make a judgment on that until I
[6:40:19] show them some very specific engineering on what
[6:40:21] that looks like.
[6:40:22] And that's a step back to the site plan level.
[6:40:24] So we will be back to the planning Commission,
[6:40:27] all the staff with various waiver requests
[6:40:29] if needed, to meet those criteria and the piping
[6:40:33] that you have, the stormwater inlet,
[6:40:35] that's going to be a pipe going from that point.
[6:40:39] All the way down to the storm water pond, correct?
[6:40:42] Yeah, something like that will be
[6:40:43] built to keep drainage that direction.
[6:40:45] I asked that because it's going right through the amenities
[6:40:48] underneath that.
[6:40:49] You never know.
[6:40:50] Was there.
[6:40:51] OK, that's good to know.
[6:40:52] And the fact that you have that path that goes along,
[6:40:56] that connects to Colony Drive and you can also go out,
[6:41:01] I guess once the Eastern Avenue is built out,
[6:41:05] then you could go that way.
[6:41:06] Or you can go to once again, repeating myself out colony
[6:41:10] drive down to where all the melodies are, correct?
[6:41:14] That's right Okay.
[6:41:15] Thank you.
[6:41:16] No other questions and just for my own understanding
[6:41:20] just in the ten foot buffer zone and the 25 year setback,
[6:41:24] you don't combine those.
[6:41:25] The 25 is from the property, plant, not from the buffer.
[6:41:29] That's correct So it's not 35.
[6:41:31] It's a total of 25.
[6:41:32] Yes.
[6:41:33] All right Yeah.
[6:41:41] All right.
[6:41:41] I think I'm.
[6:41:42] Thank you.
[6:41:43] Any other questions for the applicant before?
[6:41:45] I guess only one of what has been
[6:41:47] done to try to solve the pinch point
[6:41:49] question as far as addressing the neighbors
[6:41:52] or making requests or making offers or any kind of discussion
[6:41:56] I know that.
[6:41:56] So the change in has spoken with those neighbors quite a lot.
[6:42:00] I have not been involved with that discussion,
[6:42:03] so I can't say what the specifics are
[6:42:07] of that would probably, again be something
[6:42:12] I mean, in a site plan, we would like to have that triangle.
[6:42:15] If they don't want to part with it, that's their business.
[6:42:18] It's their conversations broke down a year ago To put it
[6:42:22] simply, I think that there's been no contact negotiations
[6:42:26] broke down a year ago as well.
[6:42:28] So maybe the on the but once the decision tonight is made,
[6:42:33] then we typically do basically the others
[6:42:37] make the choices going forward.
[6:42:38] Staff and the applicant make the choices after tonight.
[6:42:41] So that's why I'm trying to get as much information as possible.
[6:42:45] All right Thank you.
[6:42:46] I'll stop there.
[6:42:48] All right.
[6:42:48] Thank you, Justin.
[6:42:49] We're ready to go to our public speakers.
[6:42:52] Great.
[6:42:52] Thank you.
[6:42:53] We'll begin with Bill O'Malley and Nadia Anderson
[6:42:57] is on deck and good evening.
[6:43:10] And O'Malley.
[6:43:11] President the Crows, a community associate Asian.
[6:43:15] The issue before you tonight is not
[6:43:17] whether this board has the authority
[6:43:19] to disagree with the Planning commission.
[6:43:21] Of course it does.
[6:43:22] The question is, what is materially
[6:43:25] changed after a 5 to 1 recommendation of denial
[6:43:28] that warrants a completely different land use conclusion
[6:43:32] Remember, this applicant was already
[6:43:33] afforded a deferral, an opportunity to redesign.
[6:43:36] When did all the Planning Commission clearly
[6:43:39] tried to find a path to Yes.
[6:43:41] But after reviewing the revised proposal, it still voted 5 to 1
[6:43:44] to recommend denial.
[6:43:46] It concerns its concerns included compatibility
[6:43:50] transition to existing homes, private property
[6:43:53] issues and particularly the concentration of density
[6:43:56] on the northern portion of this difficult site
[6:43:59] So what changed after the vote will fairly
[6:44:02] acknowledge some mitigation, additional landscaping,
[6:44:05] a ten ten foot plan planted buffer.
[6:44:08] But mitigation was not a redesign.
[6:44:10] On May 13th, the North buildings aren't allowed 11 units tonight.
[6:44:15] It still allows 11 units.
[6:44:17] That matters because one of the clearest messages
[6:44:19] from that body, the planning Commission,
[6:44:22] shifts some of the density south.
[6:44:24] That didn't happen.
[6:44:26] And that raises a reasonable question.
[6:44:28] If these posts denial changes represent a better design,
[6:44:32] why wasn't the design result ?
[6:44:35] Did the design return, then to the Planning Commission ?
[6:44:39] This is not an argument against infill townhomes.
[6:44:42] Affordable housing.
[6:44:43] We recognize those public policy goals.
[6:44:47] This is an argument for good site design.
[6:44:49] We know it is an unusual collection of parcels.
[6:44:52] It's weird because of its shape slope, the existing residence
[6:44:56] surrounded by the proposal, separate vehicular access
[6:45:01] points to development clusters being treated
[6:45:05] as a cohesive neighborhood.
[6:45:07] Candidly, what makes us proposal.
[6:45:09] So unusual It just doesn't fit together.
[6:45:12] There's a better approach.
[6:45:14] Reduce the northern density and challenge the developer
[6:45:17] to design the two areas around the physical realities
[6:45:20] of the property.
[6:45:22] Hopefully to different vote is not land use strategy mitigation
[6:45:26] around the edges.
[6:45:27] It's not the same thing as fixing the design.
[6:45:30] A 5 to 1 planning Commission recommendation
[6:45:32] should not be overturned lightly on the central condition that
[6:45:36] produced that recommendation remains unchanged Tonight.
[6:45:40] You have an opportunity to demonstrate good planning
[6:45:44] means giving the communities a legitimate concern
[6:45:47] to the same serious consideration as the applicant.
[6:45:51] We ask you today This is here May at a minimum,
[6:45:55] defer it and required applicant to return with a better design.
[6:46:00] These are good people.
[6:46:02] Please stop with word the developer
[6:46:04] who is not done the necessary work Do the right thing, please.
[6:46:09] Thank you.
[6:46:10] Thank you.
[6:46:11] Thank you.
[6:46:12] Not Anderson and Julianne Price is on deck Good evening,
[6:46:30] members of the board.
[6:46:31] I stand before you tonight generally confused.
[6:46:34] And I don't know how each of you intends to vote,
[6:46:37] but I'm baffled why a project that's fundamentally
[6:46:39] flow what has been allowed to advance this far in the process.
[6:46:43] Let me be clear.
[6:46:44] I commend the applicant for attempting
[6:46:46] to address a community's affordable housing shortage.
[6:46:49] Affordable housing is a critical need across Albemarle county
[6:46:53] and efforts to create accessible housing solutions deserve
[6:46:56] genuine recognition.
[6:46:58] However, good intentions do not change the law of physics,
[6:47:01] planning policy or even that high density rezoning
[6:47:04] must be paired with appropriate land
[6:47:06] and viable infrastructure in the site
[6:47:08] is simply the wrong location.
[6:47:10] This is not in alignment with the adopted Closing Master plan,
[6:47:14] nor does it fit the comprehensive principles
[6:47:16] of the 1844 granting a spot zoning increase here violates
[6:47:20] the very long range planning documents.
[6:47:23] Our community spent years developing.
[6:47:26] And for legal follow up to a question under Virginia land use
[6:47:29] law and Albemarle County Procedure,
[6:47:31] an unapproved application filed before 8044 was adopted
[6:47:35] holds no legal grandfathered rights or entitlement.
[6:47:38] The Planning Commission evaluated this project.
[6:47:41] And I hope that you go back to those comments
[6:47:44] and they voted to deny it, not once,
[6:47:47] twice overriding a decisive evidence based denial
[6:47:50] undermines public trust and treats the appointed planning
[6:47:53] oversight as an extendable hurdle rather than
[6:47:55] an essential safeguard.
[6:47:58] Furthermore, packaging a 20% affordable housing
[6:48:01] alongside private roads and private stormwater manage
[6:48:04] is deeply irresponsible.
[6:48:06] Albemarle County oversees well over a thousand private
[6:48:09] stormwater facility is county data shows that roughly upwards
[6:48:13] of 60% of HOA manage basins suffer from an active
[6:48:17] maintenance deficiencies and failures Volunteer HOA boards
[6:48:21] such as myself don't know the extent of the burden they need
[6:48:24] to cover by fronting upwards of 30 to $100,000 in capital
[6:48:29] reserves needed for major dredging and structural repairs.
[6:48:33] So in future, residents and small affordable development
[6:48:36] with complex private drainage systems and road maintenance
[6:48:39] sets, both these homeowners and downstream neighbors up
[6:48:42] for systemic failure The area around liberty Hall hasn't been
[6:48:47] spoken a little more frequently tonight, which I appreciate,
[6:48:50] but it struggles with saturated ground and overwhelming drainage
[6:48:54] during routine storms Even with my 15ft of setback,
[6:48:57] the water continues to be a problem.
[6:49:00] And those board members who came out to our community, thank you.
[6:49:03] You understand the cost of fixing
[6:49:05] such an expensive mistake.
[6:49:06] There are complete replacing it.
[6:49:08] This needed and clay loam soils here have notoriously
[6:49:12] been have are notoriously have poor percolation crushing
[6:49:16] high density development directly upstream
[6:49:19] or dumped still and unmanageable runoff volume into an already
[6:49:23] fragile corridor.
[6:49:24] And my very true fear is that stripping this canopy
[6:49:27] and replacing absorbing crown.
[6:49:30] But these surfaces will surely accelerate and enough.
[6:49:34] Thank you.
[6:49:35] Thank you.
[6:49:36] Thank you, Jillian price up next and Mark Esplin
[6:49:40] is on deck OK, Good evening.
[6:49:47] Thank you.
[6:49:48] My name is Julianne price.
[6:49:49] I'm in the Whitehall district.
[6:49:50] And I live with my family at 3:30.
[6:49:52] Wendy Nolan the center of the sea.
[6:49:54] I had initially planned to talk about our concerns
[6:49:56] and objections regarding the easement
[6:49:58] and whether or not we feel like Mr. or the applicant
[6:50:00] is able to build this path across that at this point
[6:50:04] we have felt like we had to retain counsel.
[6:50:05] So we have continued concerns, but I will leave those to him.
[6:50:11] I want to thank all of you and the counties staff and all
[6:50:14] the members of our community.
[6:50:15] There's so many people here for taking all the time
[6:50:17] to examine this proposal We know that what remains
[6:50:20] within the Crozet growth area is largely
[6:50:22] other unusual parcels like Windy Knoll,
[6:50:24] little bits of former farmland and family subdivisions that
[6:50:27] have not yet been sold off or up zoned,
[6:50:30] I believe that the board has an opportunity tonight
[6:50:32] to set the tone for how current residents
[6:50:34] within and around infill parcels are treated.
[6:50:37] You can reinforce that we are simply
[6:50:39] an obstacle to the developer's goal of maximum allowable units
[6:50:42] and that our existence is.
[6:50:43] But an annoyance Or you can echo the values that the Planning
[6:50:46] Commission and the spirit of the master
[6:50:48] plan that existing community members are partners
[6:50:51] whose lived experience and knowledge of their neighborhoods
[6:50:53] can inform responsible growth So many members of our community
[6:50:57] have repeatedly come together in meaningfully
[6:50:59] contribute to raise an objection to this plan Some of those
[6:51:03] have been addressed.
[6:51:04] Many have not.
[6:51:05] Many of our neighbors do not have the same privilege
[6:51:08] and opportunities for engagement that we
[6:51:10] have had for a wide variety of reasons language, health, money.
[6:51:14] I really worry about the next family
[6:51:16] that sits in the middle of the next infill development.
[6:51:18] Elmore County and who does not have the resources or the time
[6:51:22] or the ability to contest a plan that prioritizes quantity
[6:51:25] over function.
[6:51:26] I urge you to be clear in your evaluation tonight
[6:51:29] that the county expects respectful, reasonable design
[6:51:32] for cohesive neighborhoods that function in reality and not just
[6:51:35] on paper, and that the burden of do
[6:51:37] diligence and negotiations should rest on the applicant,
[6:51:40] not on the abutting residents.
[6:51:42] That is not been the case here.
[6:51:44] And this applicant has had enough chances to get it right.
[6:51:46] Since he began talking with the county
[6:51:48] about rezoning in March of 2025.
[6:51:50] This is the sixth official version
[6:51:52] for a density of R six or higher.
[6:51:54] The way to address this problem and all the problems
[6:51:57] with this design and its negative implications
[6:51:59] for the environment and the people
[6:52:00] who live around this property is to reduce the number of units
[6:52:03] to a level that is a proper effort for this land
[6:52:06] and its unique constraints.
[6:52:08] Maybe that involves reversing the northern curve.
[6:52:10] Someone from the southern parcel.
[6:52:11] So we reduce the infrastructure burden on future residents
[6:52:14] and we stop pretending that a C shaped sloped parcel
[6:52:17] with our property in the middle and three separate access
[6:52:19] points from three different areas
[6:52:21] is actually a neighborhood There are the real potential
[6:52:27] and community support here for an
[6:52:29] for designation with up to 9 or 10 dwelling units in this area.
[6:52:33] We are ready to welcome your neighbors.
[6:52:35] I'm ready for the event.
[6:52:36] This trees next to you to be cut down
[6:52:38] for that site to be maintained but please
[6:52:40] deny the CMA so that we can move on
[6:52:43] and work towards a reasonable, realistic and respectful plan
[6:52:46] that will serve all of us.
[6:52:49] Mark esplin and Darren Price's on deck Good evening.
[6:53:01] My name is Mark Esplin.
[6:53:03] I live in quarry Farm on Little Fox Lane.
[6:53:06] I submitted a counterproposal to the committee.
[6:53:07] I'm sorry that I created so much confusion.
[6:53:09] That was not my intent The reason I wanted to submit this
[6:53:13] is that is something that we as neighbors believe
[6:53:15] could be more appropriate and really blends
[6:53:18] for our one quarry farm in the R six Liberty Hall.
[6:53:21] That is around the area.
[6:53:24] I believe this is something that would be closer
[6:53:26] to like an R3R4 zoning and also looks like our state.
[6:53:30] If you and the r three zoning does comply with the Cruzan
[6:53:36] master plan, it looked to us that the easement
[6:53:39] needed for the Eastern Avenue construction extended deeper
[6:53:41] into the area than what the applicant chose.
[6:53:44] And this is according to the county's own exhibits on Eastern
[6:53:47] Avenue So while the proposal showed and left you
[6:53:51] at least that area open because we didn't want
[6:53:53] to add infrastructure or amenities that would be impacted
[6:53:56] by the construction.
[6:53:57] And without further clarification on how large
[6:53:59] that easement is, maybe there could be a path there maybe
[6:54:03] that due to timing of be best to just have the two parcels
[6:54:06] developed separately.
[6:54:08] The sketch that I provided you was done by a lay person,
[6:54:11] like I'm a chemical engineer.
[6:54:12] My forte is in vaccine purification
[6:54:14] and protein separation.
[6:54:16] So this is something, not something
[6:54:18] that I do on a daily basis And I understand
[6:54:21] that there would need to be adjustments
[6:54:22] and that this is just a talking point
[6:54:25] But nonetheless, this layout has a lot of benefits
[6:54:27] that the neighborhood and talking
[6:54:29] with the rest of our neighbors agree
[6:54:31] that would be very beneficial.
[6:54:33] Namely, it would provide opportunity
[6:54:35] to preserve the mature trees that are within the area.
[6:54:39] It could reduce the stormwater runoff
[6:54:41] because you have less permeable surfaces and greater green space
[6:54:44] with the trees It provides more opportunity for setback
[6:54:47] and Bunbury with the existing neighbors.
[6:54:49] It would give us some more green space
[6:54:52] for residents and children.
[6:54:53] There will be lots of children in the area The buses are
[6:54:57] already full.
[6:54:57] That's great.
[6:54:58] The more children, the merrier.
[6:54:59] My kids can play with them and they
[6:55:01] will be less light and noise and distract disruption
[6:55:04] to the neighbors.
[6:55:04] Fewer parking constraints, reduce traffic
[6:55:07] to fine road, greater privacy for Patriot Way.
[6:55:11] So in that proposal there would just be one unit.
[6:55:13] They would be facing Patriot way instead of the six
[6:55:15] and it would decrease the likelihood of foot traffic
[6:55:18] across existing property.
[6:55:19] So this viewpoint is something that could be done.
[6:55:22] And there could be a transition from the quarry farm
[6:55:24] neighborhood to the library, whole neighborhood.
[6:55:26] It would enable the considerations
[6:55:27] of difficulty issues that might be
[6:55:28] present in the current design.
[6:55:30] Again, we're all for having infill.
[6:55:31] We understand the need for growth and welcome new neighbors
[6:55:34] when they do arrive.
[6:55:36] We we're all in favor of having more housing
[6:55:38] and having affordable housing in the area and the design
[6:55:41] that I submitted has affordable units
[6:55:43] and mixed use of townhomes, duplexes and single family
[6:55:46] homes.
[6:55:47] We believe that this is something
[6:55:48] that the neighborhood would indeed support
[6:55:50] and that we are more than welcoming for something
[6:55:53] along this nature.
[6:55:55] Thank you very much.
[6:55:56] Thank you.
[6:55:57] Thank you.
[6:55:58] Taryn Price and Travis Britton is on deck
[6:56:02] to turn price I live at 331.
[6:56:09] You know, Julianne, everyone's made a great point I largely
[6:56:14] agree with all of them.
[6:56:15] And I don't have a 3 minute prepared speech
[6:56:17] that I have time.
[6:56:18] I have full time job.
[6:56:19] And as Mark does as well, I mostly just
[6:56:23] wanted you to know i, I haven't slept well
[6:56:27] in three days at least.
[6:56:28] I hardly even i don't know if I can make it
[6:56:32] through this talk It makes you feel physically ill to be here
[6:56:39] to defend this again We spent a lot of time talking
[6:56:43] about the extra five feet on each side.
[6:56:47] I'm staring at the picture now and I
[6:56:51] think that's largely because there are no significant changes
[6:56:54] to the previous plan that the Planning Commission already
[6:56:56] denied us 5 to 1.
[6:56:57] It wasn't close.
[6:56:59] It wasn't like it almost passed its 5 to 1.
[6:57:02] The main changes are these tiny incremental things
[6:57:04] in that the expression that comes to mind.
[6:57:06] I don't mean to be ungrateful, but it's
[6:57:07] like it's putting lipstick on a pig.
[6:57:10] It's it's not a well-balanced plan.
[6:57:12] I'm starting to feel, frankly, kind of bullish
[6:57:15] about that corner of our land that gives us
[6:57:19] access to Liberty Hall.
[6:57:20] I don't know what's going to happen there,
[6:57:22] and I guarantee nothing's off.
[6:57:23] You approve this, approve it knowing
[6:57:25] that we don't know what's going to happen with that I think it's
[6:57:28] interesting that the Planning Commission repeatedly emphasized
[6:57:31] that there should be community engagement from the applicant.
[6:57:35] I have seen zero evidence of that,
[6:57:37] and instead, I feel like it's our job.
[6:57:39] Like Mark's making his own plan Why isn't my responsibility
[6:57:45] removed here from Hog Waller and our two bedroom house too cozy
[6:57:50] where I used to be a teacher because I love cozy
[6:57:53] and I love the community.
[6:57:55] And I love the neighbors that I've met through this process.
[6:57:58] But I never did.
[6:57:59] I imagine that I would have to look, defend my land.
[6:58:02] It feels like.
[6:58:03] And this like John Dutton, West What is that?
[6:58:06] What does that show?
[6:58:07] You know what I'm talking about it.
[6:58:10] 11 units like next to my house.
[6:58:12] Yes.
[6:58:13] I expected neighbors.
[6:58:14] I was very excited to have neighbors.
[6:58:15] One day.
[6:58:16] We call that the tennis playground because there's
[6:58:18] junk all over it.
[6:58:19] I'm excited to see it cleaned up and have neighbors.
[6:58:21] But like 11 units.
[6:58:22] Are you serious?
[6:58:23] These three acres aren't a buildable three acres
[6:58:26] and it doesn't match the neighborhood.
[6:58:27] And I understand the need for more housing.
[6:58:29] But this is an appropriate part of the master plan.
[6:58:32] Says this should match the existing neighborhood
[6:58:34] adds the community is telling you
[6:58:36] they want fewer houses there.
[6:58:38] Make it work with the land as it is.
[6:58:40] And if you've been there, you know how Soviet is.
[6:58:42] You can't build in that little middle part.
[6:58:44] That's why there's a retention pond I don't know what else
[6:58:48] to say, but I think I'm going to take a good nap after this.
[6:58:52] And I'm going to try not to throw up in my seat.
[6:58:54] And I hope that at the end of this.
[6:58:56] It feels like we were heard.
[6:58:59] Thank you.
[6:59:01] Thank you.
[6:59:01] Travis Britton and Steve Walsworth is on deck.
[6:59:06] All right.
[6:59:07] Good evening, Travis Brendon from law firm
[6:59:09] of Music Peeler and Garrett, I represent
[6:59:11] Julian Price who lives in 330.
[6:59:13] Most of the discussion has, I think,
[6:59:15] appropriately focused on the matters
[6:59:17] in front of the board purview.
[6:59:19] Stormwater is the density, the appropriate
[6:59:22] now is the rezoning, which is what's before the board.
[6:59:24] Tonight I want to raise three issues related
[6:59:27] to the proposed public path.
[6:59:30] The path there.
[6:59:32] I don't believe that's a shared use path because it's not
[6:59:35] ten feet, but regardless, these also concern the easement.
[6:59:39] I spoke with Mr. Herrick earlier today
[6:59:41] about the first thing that I'll bring up,
[6:59:43] namely the easement on Wendy.
[6:59:45] No, actually, let me see.
[6:59:46] I know.
[6:59:47] Yes, I can move this.
[6:59:48] OK.
[6:59:48] So the easement on Wendy, No land that crosses here,
[6:59:53] this being the Servian estate.
[6:59:56] If there is another easement granted, then we have a tourism.
[6:59:59] It's crossing at this point.
[7:00:01] Now you can burden an easement by an increase degree in use
[7:00:06] without necessarily causing an unreasonable burdening.
[7:00:10] But this would be a change in the type of use
[7:00:12] because we would then have vehicular traffic and pedestrian
[7:00:15] and bike traffic crossing paths at that point.
[7:00:18] Right there.
[7:00:19] Now, I think that there could be disagreement.
[7:00:22] Mr. Hart expressed the opinion that that would not
[7:00:25] be unreasonable Of course, what that means is
[7:00:28] that every trip in and out has to stop.
[7:00:31] And there's the potential of interaction
[7:00:32] And I think that's where the actual feel
[7:00:35] of the thing on the ground is going
[7:00:36] to make a difference because a pedestrian walking along here
[7:00:40] is not going to perceive that this is an actual roadway.
[7:00:42] It's I don't think it's hardly any wider than the proposed path
[7:00:46] itself.
[7:00:47] So the building would be on my client and the inhabitants
[7:00:51] of 330 to make sure that that they're looking out
[7:00:55] for pedestrians who probably are not aware of what this is So
[7:01:01] the second issue with regards to this that I want to bring up
[7:01:04] is the fact that there is a May 2016 property maintenance
[7:01:09] agreement that burdens the parties which at this point,
[7:01:15] there are two parties, the owners of these parcels
[7:01:17] and Harrington and my client here,
[7:01:19] and they are obligated to agree obligated to maintain
[7:01:24] this easement.
[7:01:25] But also, they must agree on no maintenance can be performed.
[7:01:28] Now if we add an additional unit here
[7:01:30] above what currently exists, then there's
[7:01:34] an obligation to maintain it.
[7:01:35] Yet it cannot be maintained unless all three parties agree.
[7:01:39] Now, if there a pothole or something
[7:01:40] that occurs at this point, there would
[7:01:42] be no incentive for these people who,
[7:01:44] by the agreement, which is recorded and part of the deed
[7:01:47] would be obligated to maintain that or share the costs equally
[7:01:51] Why would they approve that when their driveway is here?
[7:01:54] So that's a potential problem.
[7:01:56] But i think would constitute a burden and I'm out of time.
[7:01:59] And I was going to discuss this, but I'll just
[7:02:01] end by saying my client is open to negotiation
[7:02:04] with the developer and we hope to have that conversation open.
[7:02:06] Thank you.
[7:02:07] Thank you.
[7:02:09] Thank you.
[7:02:09] Steve Walls Worth and David track guards truck.
[7:02:15] It's thank you is on deck.
[7:02:19] Good evening supervisors I'm Steve Rose
[7:02:21] what i live in Curry farm for over 23 years now.
[7:02:25] First I want to thank the person supervisors that did come out
[7:02:29] and did a site visit with us that
[7:02:31] was very appreciated by everybody involved
[7:02:34] and it actually shows a representation
[7:02:37] of representative democracy in action.
[7:02:40] I think.
[7:02:40] So thank you.
[7:02:42] Second, you are in favor of more housing.
[7:02:46] We are in favor of affordable housing.
[7:02:49] We are not NIMBYs, as you can tell by everybody talking today,
[7:02:53] they're offering some kind of solution to everything.
[7:02:57] Now down to business as a matter of law.
[7:03:00] This is why this project is here in front of the board
[7:03:04] right now, because the Planning Commission voted
[7:03:06] to not recommend the six reso in a 5 to 1,
[7:03:11] and that's very telling.
[7:03:13] It wasn't a three to 3 or 4 to two.
[7:03:16] It was a 5 to 1.
[7:03:18] Very definitive.
[7:03:19] There was no changes since then.
[7:03:22] There is no changes of any substance from the planning
[7:03:25] commission to now.
[7:03:29] We should be looking at this.
[7:03:32] The use should be looking at a project that
[7:03:35] uses what we call a standard of excellence
[7:03:38] as it's laid out in the board, pursuing and achieving
[7:03:40] excellence in community action as we don't have that.
[7:03:46] But we have we have what do we have?
[7:03:49] We have a heavy financial burden that's
[7:03:51] going to be put on the HOA to maintain all the infrastructure
[7:03:54] that they're responsible for roads,
[7:03:56] driveways stormwater systems, paved and unpaved trails.
[7:04:02] This is especially detrimental to the affordable housing folks
[7:04:06] because now they're going to be faced with a still paid
[7:04:11] for the Affordable house after they've already bought it.
[7:04:15] Connectivity there is still always
[7:04:17] no real connectivity between the north
[7:04:20] end of the development and the south that connects context.
[7:04:24] There's still a context problem.
[7:04:27] The 11 units on the north they don't flow with the all one unit
[7:04:32] unit built in.
[7:04:34] Kori Farm and the model neighborhood
[7:04:37] built in the Liberty Hall It just about flow trees.
[7:04:41] There's 150 year old trees that are there.
[7:04:43] They're native to Virginia and they're
[7:04:46] just there's no plan to preserve those.
[7:04:49] And those were outlined in the Charlottesville area.
[7:04:52] Trees, stewards study, and they were
[7:04:55] adamant about trying to save those trees.
[7:04:58] The current master plan as it's laid out,
[7:05:01] is follows densities concerned.
[7:05:03] It says actual density as a singular tool does not
[7:05:07] necessarily promote affordable housing.
[7:05:10] There are other factors to consider but they are.
[7:05:13] So this is concerns not change since the Planning Commission
[7:05:18] vote.
[7:05:19] Yet here we are Thank you for.
[7:05:23] Thank you, David trekker Rich and Philip Wade on deck.
[7:05:31] Hello.
[7:05:32] Albemarle county board of supervisors How y'all doing?
[7:05:35] Good.
[7:05:35] Here's three minutes for everything
[7:05:36] you can just check out because, I mean,
[7:05:38] it is related because I'm in right hall, Crazy district,
[7:05:41] and I'm so I'm sorry.
[7:05:43] You just need to identify yourself.
[7:05:45] David Gregory So and I am, you know one race and try to wife,
[7:05:54] one race Orchard Acres which you know
[7:05:56] long history of development, you know,
[7:05:58] it was a neighborhood on King Lane
[7:06:01] and then got completely like just
[7:06:03] dumped like it's like a little mini city over there now,
[7:06:05] which is fine because we need houses
[7:06:07] and I'm not for against this, but these are the same.
[7:06:09] You can check out because I just want to actually just say
[7:06:12] like, thank you guys for your service to your community.
[7:06:15] And I know you know, things are, you know we run or anything,
[7:06:21] but thank you for you know, I know we're coming a long way.
[7:06:24] And I just from that corridor and pro smart development
[7:06:29] and pro neighborhoods getting together and fight
[7:06:32] for what they believe in.
[7:06:34] So just that's it.
[7:06:35] Just thank you guys for being here.
[7:06:37] You guys for being here developers
[7:06:38] for wanting to invest in the community
[7:06:41] even if the community may not be heads right now,
[7:06:44] but, you know, it's all would be good.
[7:06:47] So thank you.
[7:06:48] That's all I have to say.
[7:06:49] Thank you.
[7:06:50] Appreciate Philip Wade and I'm not even
[7:06:54] going to try that actually has a challenging name for a Beamer NG
[7:07:00] Liang.
[7:07:02] Exactly This is on deck.
[7:07:04] Good evening.
[7:07:05] Good evening.
[7:07:06] My name is Philip Wade and i am in the Whitehall district
[7:07:09] and I'm at 5340 Glenview Court right
[7:07:11] across the street from the proposed 11 units
[7:07:14] in the north up there.
[7:07:16] I did want to first address the master plan because that's
[7:07:20] been discussed a little bit when I bought my house this was not
[7:07:23] in the development area.
[7:07:24] So there has been a significant change from the original master
[7:07:27] plan.
[7:07:27] This was not in the development area that was down
[7:07:29] near Old Trail and now it has been
[7:07:32] changed, which was done right around Covid
[7:07:34] when people were, you know, unable to get out as much.
[7:07:37] And that's when it was changed And so, you know,
[7:07:41] when I bought my home.
[7:07:42] This was, you know, I see single family units everywhere.
[7:07:46] And, now you're talking about 11 units on one acre
[7:07:51] across the street from me.
[7:07:53] If they we're looking to do 11 acres, 11 units on one acre,
[7:07:57] you would most likely just say no.
[7:07:59] But they've bought, other parcels that are not buildable
[7:08:03] and now all of a sudden 11 units is okay there.
[7:08:05] That just doesn't make much sense to me.
[7:08:09] There has been no communique motion,
[7:08:10] despite the Planning Commission asking them to communicate
[7:08:13] with the neighbors.
[7:08:14] Have I have received no communication I didn't even
[7:08:16] recognize Justin when I saw him there
[7:08:20] because I didn't know who he was,
[7:08:22] because he's never talked to me before.
[7:08:24] And I'm right across the street The planning commission did
[7:08:28] ask for less units on the north side.
[7:08:29] I want to be clear.
[7:08:30] They did not ask for HyperFlex 11 here or there.
[7:08:33] They asked for less units in the north and more in the south.
[7:08:36] And I understand that they can't do that.
[7:08:38] But that's a restriction of the property
[7:08:40] and that shouldn't be something that we have to deal with.
[7:08:42] That's a restriction of the property.
[7:08:45] There should be less units there.
[7:08:48] And he's asked what the concern was with the more units.
[7:08:50] And I would say, in addition, everything else we've said,
[7:08:53] the appeal when you were about to build a $40 million
[7:08:56] new Eastern Avenue road here and the one
[7:08:59] of the first things you're going to see
[7:09:00] is the backside of townhomes.
[7:09:03] I just don't think that is is the way that we
[7:09:06] should be doing things.
[7:09:07] And i wanted to ask one question.
[7:09:12] I don't know if we know the answer to yet, which
[7:09:14] is it said there was a total of 18 units allowed
[7:09:18] between the two, but I was wondering
[7:09:20] if that includes the existing home or is this 18 new units?
[7:09:25] So that was the other question that I
[7:09:27] had that I don't think was addressed.
[7:09:28] I appreciate it.
[7:09:29] I'm going to leave the rest of my time
[7:09:30] because that's what I have to say,
[7:09:32] I hope that I don't I hope that.
[7:09:34] And my pediatrician wife don't have to move from this county
[7:09:37] if you approve this.
[7:09:38] And we have one units across the street from us.
[7:09:40] Thank you Thank you.
[7:09:43] Thank you.
[7:09:45] There, Lang, I was I even close.
[7:09:50] Yes, you.
[7:09:51] You got a pretty good, good attempt I appreciate your grace.
[7:09:54] All right.
[7:09:56] So I want to thank you all for being here
[7:09:58] And I see a lot of questions in front of developers
[7:10:04] and designers and our I want to thank my neighbors asking really
[7:10:09] questions.
[7:10:10] I don't have much to say, but I just
[7:10:11] want to sort of put on some, you know like question to you
[7:10:16] because end of the day, this is not just about 18 homes,
[7:10:20] like 18 houses on a piece of property.
[7:10:22] Right?
[7:10:23] It's really about what kind of neighborhood.
[7:10:25] We want to preserve and what kind
[7:10:27] of development, our existing infrastructure
[7:10:30] can safely support.
[7:10:32] And I have been calling for I live
[7:10:34] in Korea for leader Fox team.
[7:10:36] My heart is right up against existing home
[7:10:40] on this When Island sweet 25.
[7:10:43] And I been there for more than 20 years, I enjoy my home there.
[7:10:48] And I think this is if you are having your hand is
[7:10:51] is big because once these homes are built the increased traffic
[7:10:56] density changing neighborhood character will be permanent.
[7:11:00] It's a decision you have to make with your with your choices is
[7:11:04] going to change.
[7:11:05] My life quite big and the changing
[7:11:08] my life and the life of my neighbors quite a lot.
[7:11:11] And I respect respectfully ask permission to take care.
[7:11:14] Careful look beyond the number of proposed units.
[7:11:17] And consider this cumulative effect on this.
[7:11:20] You know, just things we our neighbors
[7:11:22] have mentioned as stormwater and the traffic safety,
[7:11:27] infrastructure to even naturally resources
[7:11:30] and the competitive compatibility about.
[7:11:33] So our neighbors.
[7:11:34] So this so I want to say, you know
[7:11:37] I think I'm the last one to speak.
[7:11:38] So I just want to preserve some time So you know,
[7:11:42] we can maybe hopefully we can go home early.
[7:11:44] Thank you Thank you.
[7:11:47] We you.
[7:11:48] You're the last one to speak in person,
[7:11:50] but now are switching to online Lisa Gaylor her.
[7:11:54] Goler Can we can you hear me?
[7:11:58] Yes.
[7:11:59] Good evening.
[7:12:00] Yes.
[7:12:00] OK.
[7:12:00] Hi.
[7:12:01] I am lisa Gaylor.
[7:12:02] I am a resident of Cozy in the Whitehall magisterial district.
[7:12:08] I live in the southwestern part of Cozy, so I'm not a neighbor
[7:12:13] but I'm interested in that sort of the,
[7:12:16] I guess the development of growth in cozy
[7:12:19] and as first of all, I'd also like
[7:12:22] to say pretty much everything I was
[7:12:23] going to say has already been said by the other speakers
[7:12:26] very well.
[7:12:26] And I want to also say that I heartily support them.
[7:12:29] And so one of the points that I did want to talk about
[7:12:32] was the challenges of the infill.
[7:12:35] It looks like most of what we're going to be doing now in Crozet
[7:12:38] is going to be infill and it's those
[7:12:41] are more of challenged lots.
[7:12:43] I think we're pretty much developed on all the low hanging
[7:12:45] fruit and I'm concerned when I see
[7:12:50] consider ation of these infill projects being compared
[7:12:54] to the properties next to them, which may be more easily,
[7:12:58] easily developable and develop or whatever to build on.
[7:13:04] I think we need to look at each one of these infill properties.
[7:13:08] Individ Surely, as has been pointed out
[7:13:10] by the other commentators, there's
[7:13:13] a lot of challenges in this particular property.
[7:13:16] And so just assuming that because it has three acres,
[7:13:21] you can put 18 units on it, what will that do to the land?
[7:13:25] What will that again, what will that
[7:13:27] do down the road for a for the people
[7:13:32] who end up becoming residents?
[7:13:33] And what will happen to other county infrastructure
[7:13:38] potentially also.
[7:13:39] And also yeah, I think that's probably
[7:13:46] the most main thing that I that i want to talk about as
[7:13:50] has also been said, you know, we're not NIMBYs,
[7:13:54] but we're interested in having really good growth.
[7:13:57] We want developments that will meet our needs including housing
[7:14:02] affordability, but also provide benefits to the community
[7:14:06] and protect the environment.
[7:14:08] And these things are critical.
[7:14:11] And I'm a little concerned because so far it
[7:14:15] doesn't seem like we have any guidelines in available
[7:14:19] for us to be thinking about that.
[7:14:20] So I'd like it if all of us can be thinking, okay, we can.
[7:14:24] We have a number of emails coming up, but you know,
[7:14:27] what are the ways that we want to think about these things?
[7:14:29] I think the community members, the county and developers
[7:14:33] need to collaborate with this.
[7:14:35] And with that, again, I like to say I strongly support
[7:14:39] the comments of the previous commentators
[7:14:42] and I want to thank you for your attention tonight.
[7:14:46] Thank you.
[7:14:47] Thank you.
[7:14:48] Rashmi, give good evening.
[7:14:54] Can you hear me?
[7:14:55] Yes, ma'am.
[7:14:55] Good evening.
[7:14:57] Hi.
[7:14:58] My name is Rashmi Guy and I live in the Whitehall district.
[7:15:02] I have some concerns about the proposed Wendy Knoll development
[7:15:06] First, I'm concerned about the density
[7:15:08] on the north side of the development
[7:15:09] and the impact of residential parking.
[7:15:11] I realize that the county uses a formula That formula doesn't
[7:15:15] seem to consider factor like multi-generational families,
[7:15:19] kids, media, car to drive to school and work, etc.
[7:15:23] I lived in a townhome community and guess parking was limited.
[7:15:27] It created tension among neighbors
[7:15:29] and it made it difficult and stressful
[7:15:31] to have guests over Those that had more than two cars would
[7:15:34] permanently park their extra vehicles in the guest spots I
[7:15:37] purchased my first home that was an hour away from work,
[7:15:40] so a minimum of two hours commute each way.
[7:15:43] Day because that's what I could afford.
[7:15:45] And it allowed me to have a little extra space.
[7:15:49] I ended up selling my townhome because the parking
[7:15:51] situation became untenable The surrounding neighborhoods.
[7:15:55] Kori Farm Liberty Hall shouldn't bear the burden of overflow
[7:15:58] parking from another development and with the future construction
[7:16:02] of Eastern Avenue, cars would not be able to park along there.
[7:16:05] There needs to be ample parking available within the development
[7:16:08] even if that means a reduction in units for residents who
[7:16:12] are physically able potentially can walk and bike
[7:16:15] to the restaurants and grocery store for a few things,
[7:16:18] they will need their vehicle to go
[7:16:19] to Charlottesville or Waynesboro for work and shopping.
[7:16:22] Second, the community shouldn't be ultimately
[7:16:24] responsible for road maintenance, snow removal etc.,
[7:16:28] especially for residents who need more affordable housing
[7:16:31] That extra burden through higher HOA fees or special assessments
[7:16:35] can really create financial strain Third,
[7:16:37] I'm concerned about the stormwater runoff and capacity
[7:16:40] because the proposed walking path is in a lower lying area.
[7:16:43] Water will flood that path.
[7:16:45] While some will argue that during the site plan phase,
[7:16:48] stormwater will be addressed.
[7:16:49] But given the stormwater failures in Liberty Hall,
[7:16:52] that will cost the HOA quite a bit of money to remedy.
[7:16:55] And stormwater issues in other neighborhoods
[7:16:57] like mine developers and the county
[7:16:59] have shown that they can't or won't address this
[7:17:01] during or after construction To add, as a parent,
[7:17:05] having the amenity area right next to a stormwater pond
[7:17:09] concerns me The proposed development went
[7:17:12] before the Planning Commission twice
[7:17:13] and it was not recommended with the latest being so
[7:17:16] being 5 to 1.
[7:17:18] The applicant chose to move to the Board of Supervisors
[7:17:21] Given all these points, I hope the board denies
[7:17:23] this postponing application.
[7:17:25] Thank you.
[7:17:25] Thank you.
[7:17:26] You.
[7:17:27] Thank you.
[7:17:27] And last on our list is Andrew Bauer Yes, hello.
[7:17:37] Can you hear me?
[7:17:38] Yes.
[7:17:39] Good evening.
[7:17:39] Yes.
[7:17:40] Andrew Bowers, live in the Whitehall district.
[7:17:43] I have followed this situation since it was first
[7:17:48] brought to the CCRC.
[7:17:50] I am a member of the CAC in Causeway
[7:17:53] and every time this developer has come back with a new plan,
[7:18:03] the way that I've thought about this is they're trying to finish
[7:18:07] a jigsaw puzzle We're trying to infill
[7:18:11] and they have a piece that they think fits in this spot
[7:18:15] and they keep turning it around and turning it different ways.
[7:18:19] And trying to cram it into the space
[7:18:21] and it's not actually the right piece
[7:18:24] for this space at this point.
[7:18:28] When you start tweaking the set backs,
[7:18:33] now you're taking scissors to the puzzle piece
[7:18:35] to try to make it fit and ultimately, that's
[7:18:38] not going to work.
[7:18:40] All of the things that these other folks have said
[7:18:43] are right on point.
[7:18:45] My main concerns are the cost for the residents long term,
[7:18:50] the safety of these private roads and walking paths.
[7:18:57] These loop, the water, maintenance,
[7:18:59] everything that's been mentioned is a problem.
[7:19:02] There's nothing about this project that's not a problem.
[7:19:06] And I highly recommend and hope that this group
[7:19:13] will follow in the steps of the Planning Commission.
[7:19:18] Thank you very much.
[7:19:20] Thank you Concludes our list.
[7:19:22] Thank you.
[7:19:23] Did we have any more signups than.
[7:19:25] All right.
[7:19:25] Very good Thank you.
[7:19:27] To those speakers.
[7:19:28] And now we can move to the applicant
[7:19:31] has a chance for rebuttal Five minutes
[7:19:33] if you choose to have it.
[7:19:37] Yes.
[7:19:37] Thank you There's a number of things to go over.
[7:19:40] But I start off with the last comment about the pieces
[7:19:44] of the jigsaw puzzle.
[7:19:45] We have trimmed our setbacks, but the opposite direction.
[7:19:48] It was Liberty Hall who got a reduction of five feet
[7:19:51] for their side.
[7:19:52] We've said, we can tackle our six the county standard
[7:19:56] ordinance on this property designated
[7:19:59] for up to six units an acre with the standards that
[7:20:02] are applicable to folks Asked about could it be are
[7:20:07] for sure could be after this.
[7:20:09] This year map would be the same.
[7:20:14] They'd be larger houses and fewer of them.
[7:20:17] And the cost of the amenities would
[7:20:20] be shared over fewer people.
[7:20:24] But the setback meets the county requirements
[7:20:27] for road access, parking, all those things
[7:20:31] are shown on our concept to meet the codes.
[7:20:34] So we've demonstrated that it can be done.
[7:20:37] That same going to do this after that we're not proffered
[7:20:39] that plan, but the thing.
[7:20:42] I think the Planning Commission got hung up on a little bit
[7:20:47] was just a thought about, you know, these townhomes
[7:20:49] and how close they are.
[7:20:53] We've addressed that concern The county staff,
[7:20:56] they were at the meeting.
[7:20:57] If you look at their staff report they said,
[7:21:00] we addressed the Planning commission's concerns
[7:21:02] by dealing with the actual issue, which is the space.
[7:21:07] I don't believe that's fair to say.
[7:21:10] Oh, well a townhome that cost less
[7:21:13] is somehow more impactful than a house that costs more
[7:21:16] by fewer houses doesn't change the space
[7:21:18] spatial relationship of this.
[7:21:20] So the density question, I think,
[7:21:23] does not get at the question that the answer, unless you want
[7:21:26] to say, look, the it's all single family over here
[7:21:30] and we should carry that predominantly across
[7:21:33] But if you look at with the staff, it's recommended.
[7:21:36] All along and which a comprehensive plan says
[7:21:37] you look how close this is to a center for the reason we push
[7:21:40] to the high side of that is because all those amenities
[7:21:43] are there for those individuals to use that investment made.
[7:21:47] Those folks have to use that.
[7:21:49] So I think that these concepts of the plan being
[7:21:52] for things people don't like development there.
[7:21:55] But let's go back 1957, right It was farmland and a couple
[7:22:03] of houses in 80.
[7:22:05] The houses this is the house that remains.
[7:22:07] And they put folks at is this house count yesterday as this
[7:22:10] is one of the this house that was here in development
[7:22:14] has occurred all around.
[7:22:16] I guess we have to go.
[7:22:17] We can go back up to the very beginning here right.
[7:22:22] That's a good picture.
[7:22:24] Developments occur all around.
[7:22:25] This for the ordinance is for the comprehensive plan,
[7:22:28] the land use plans had this in the 3 to 6 units an acre
[7:22:31] neighborhood density for 20 years.
[7:22:33] I think And what we're doing here is filling in a piece.
[7:22:38] And I get everyone wants to know before we come to this body
[7:22:41] like, hey, what's exact units going to be here?
[7:22:44] How much is it going to cost?
[7:22:45] What do I have?
[7:22:46] 26ft here?
[7:22:47] 30ft?
[7:22:48] What's the grading?
[7:22:49] But those aren't really things that we would customarily do.
[7:22:51] And you really can't commit to at this point are
[7:22:56] what are the way to develop the site?
[7:22:58] All infill sites is going to be to find the zoning
[7:23:02] ordinance that you have that matches what the land use is.
[7:23:06] And so this is what should be in the restrictions in play on it,
[7:23:09] take care of the protections in cases
[7:23:11] like this situation where you had a 15 foot previously
[7:23:16] approved setback here.
[7:23:17] We've increased it to help mitigate that situation
[7:23:20] for those neighbors.
[7:23:22] But those are the things that we can do here.
[7:23:25] I think there is a concern about cost of amenities for folks,
[7:23:29] but that's going to be a cost anywhere in Albemarle County
[7:23:32] because anything that's built new stormwater management
[7:23:35] amenities, all those things you have to pay to maintain.
[7:23:38] And I think that to say oh, we should just not
[7:23:40] build something because folks can't afford that.
[7:23:42] So they then have to live an hour away from work because they
[7:23:46] can't afford the housing.
[7:23:47] That's the wrong solution.
[7:23:49] So I I hope that summarizes the response to these things
[7:23:57] There are laws that deal with environmental regulations.
[7:24:00] There's zoning setbacks long standing development regulations
[7:24:04] that the county has had.
[7:24:05] And we're simply saying, based on all that that's
[7:24:08] how this should be built. And because
[7:24:09] of certain special circumstances,
[7:24:11] we've outlined this particular buffer setback And one more
[7:24:16] time, I'll say, you know, planning
[7:24:18] Commission didn't say oh, make this six this
[7:24:21] and spread them out more.
[7:24:23] That was response to the plan.
[7:24:24] We had 14 units up here.
[7:24:26] It's actually more.
[7:24:27] So we've done that.
[7:24:28] We spread the units out We have only two more than the maximum 9
[7:24:33] to 11 split inside and the staff has looked at our response
[7:24:36] and said Yeah, that met the concerns over there.
[7:24:39] So anything we can do Thank you, Jeff.
[7:24:41] Thank you.
[7:24:43] I'm going to leave things open since we've
[7:24:45] heard from the public and the applicant
[7:24:46] will do around and see if you all
[7:24:48] have questions for anybody at this point, staff, applicant,
[7:24:51] etc.
[7:24:52] So that fair?
[7:24:53] Yes.
[7:24:53] Supervisor Malik questions OK.
[7:24:59] Can you come back to me?
[7:25:02] Yep.
[7:25:02] Supervisor doesn't that we got a pass.
[7:25:05] So we'll come back There's some questions for the applicant
[7:25:10] Yeah.
[7:25:10] With those two questions will close.
[7:25:12] I have some questions that I wanted to hear from folks
[7:25:14] before I ask.
[7:25:16] So yeah, I don't.
[7:25:18] I don't want to be like nosy, but.
[7:25:22] And so feel free to not answer.
[7:25:24] But I was wondering if you could sort of talk
[7:25:26] about the costs that go into developments You mentioned, you
[7:25:33] know, increasing your buffers.
[7:25:35] You're losing land.
[7:25:37] There's a lot that goes into a development and the time
[7:25:43] that you spent coming back and forth, coming back and forth
[7:25:46] all adds into the costs and the fact
[7:25:48] that you are doing the affordable housing.
[7:25:50] For 40 years, I've heard from a lot of other people
[7:25:53] that really increases the costs because we need
[7:25:56] to relook at our policy Can you just kind
[7:26:00] of if you want to talk about sort of, I guess,