[0:16] Well, good evening, good afternoon, or good morning
[0:19] whenever you happen to be listening to this podcast.
[0:21] My name is Marvinetta Woodley Penn,
[0:24] and this is all stories matter.
[0:26] You know, I decided to do this podcast and call it that
[0:30] because I just don't think that we are as engaged
[0:34] as we could be with one another's stories.
[0:38] Everybody has a story.
[0:40] I don't care how old you are, how young you are,
[0:43] you have a story, something has happened
[0:45] to you in this time, that you've been on this earth,
[0:48] and that thing is worth sharing with everybody.
[0:51] You know, I was just at home with my grandchildren
[0:55] and they wanted to know the story about their dad,
[0:58] and I'm in the car with their dad.
[1:00] I'm like, how much of this story should I tell?
[1:04] So we have to have a conversation
[1:05] because our, his children, my grandchildren wanna know,
[1:10] and I'm gonna tell them the story, the good, the bad,
[1:14] the indifferent, the ugly, the beautiful.
[1:16] They will know the story, then they will know their history.
[1:21] And there's nothing more beautiful than knowing the who,
[1:25] the why, the what, the how of your personal story.
[1:30] So today I have two people here who are going
[1:33] to share their story.
[1:35] These are my friends from the Civic
[1:37] Theater, my Forever Friends.
[1:39] Now that I have met them,
[1:41] we have Miss Katie, and we have Mr.
[1:43] Christopher and you will get to know their story today.
[1:47] So sit back, relax, get a cup of coffee
[1:50] or a cocktail depending on the time of day,
[1:53] and enjoy this story.
[1:55] So Katie, I'm going to start with you. Yes.
[1:58] Katie Martin Neck? Yes.
[1:59] Or Martin Neck, or Martin Neck, or how do you pronounce it?
[2:03] It's actually, it's Checklist of Volcan. Okay.
[2:05] So it's Martin Neck.
[2:06] Martin Neck, yep. Okay, very good. Very good.
[2:09] I appreciate people's names. Katie, tell me your story,
[2:13] wherever you wanna begin, because I'm gonna
[2:14] go back way you are.
[2:16] Okay. Back up to the prison and then forward. Yeah.
[2:19] Okay, awesome. I was actually born in St.
[2:22] Joseph, Michigan. So I'm from around the area. Okay.
[2:27] And I pretty much lived there my whole life up
[2:29] until I became 18.
[2:32] And I went away for college for a little bit.
[2:35] It didn't work out.
[2:37] So I came back and did Lake Michigan Community College.
[2:40] And I actually got involved in the theater program
[2:43] there. So that was
[2:44] In college in, Yes, in college.
[2:46] I actually, though going back, I have been taking
[2:49] structured, danced since I was three.
[2:52] So dancing is really
[2:53] what got me on the stage since I was very young at
[2:57] three. So, okay.
[2:59] And how did you like that?
[3:00] Do you have memories of being, of being in dance class then?
[3:04] Yes, absolutely. I can remember my first, it was ballet
[3:07] where we started at three
[3:09] and we were little chicks, so little yellow chick costumes.
[3:13] Right. Like just classic. How cute.
[3:16] And then as I got older, I started taking ballet, tap,
[3:20] jazz, acrobats.
[3:22] So it just became a whole thing for me all the way
[3:25] through until I was 18.
[3:28] Oh, wow. So being a trained dancer there.
[3:30] Nice, nice.
[3:32] So I just heard a little, I overheard a little bit
[3:37] that you're going to be having those skills on
[3:40] display very soon.
[3:42] Yes. And we will talk about that. Yeah.
[3:44] So it was when you were in college
[3:46] that you really got into theater
[3:48] and decided, oh yes. I like this too.
[3:50] In fact, my first audition
[3:52] for a musical was when I was 10.
[3:55] And it was Annie and I forgot the words too tomorrow.
[4:00] So I had a very big thing when I was little, being a dancer.
[4:04] It was funny. I still had stage fright.
[4:06] So I messed up the words to that audition.
[4:08] And then I was in a group called Sunshine Kids,
[4:11] and it was a Christian traveling, singing troop.
[4:15] We wore rainbow colors and St.
[4:18] Joseph has a bluff
[4:20] and we sang, make a Grateful Noise unto the Lord
[4:23] of the Earth, make a joyful noise.
[4:25] And I messed up those the earth.
[4:27] So I kind of had these like
[4:30] misses when I was little, little.
[4:32] And then once I got to community college, I was like,
[4:35] you know what, I'm gonna give it a go again.
[4:37] And Barnum was the first musical
[4:39] that I ended up auditioning for there.
[4:42] So. Nice. And you got that. I did ensemble.
[4:44] I was a lion, tamer, tamer, and a acrobat. So,
[4:48] So the dancing it, It came kicked
[4:51] Right in for You?
[4:52] It kicked right back in. Yeah. Very
[4:53] Good.
[4:54] There we go. And you auditioned for Annie
[4:56] and here it was Annie.
[4:57] We were all three.
[4:59] Yeah. And Annie, we were at the Civic
[5:01] and we just had the best time
[5:02] Magical show.
[5:03] I mean, Mrs. Pew, Mrs. Greer, bundles.
[5:07] Bundles, And the holidays at the Pacific. Always the
[5:10] Best. Oh, it was so
[5:11] Magical Always. Oh
[5:12] Yeah.
[5:13] Those were some great shows. It was a lot of them.
[5:15] I know a lot of them it is.
[5:16] But it was still so much fun. It's
[5:18] So fun.
[5:19] I miss it because it is a family unit, you know,
[5:20] especially around the holidays. Indeed. Yeah, indeed.
[5:23] So, Chris, what about you? What is your story Begin?
[5:28] Most definitely. So I grew up in Wheaton, Illinois.
[5:31] Wheat or Wheaton Warrenville area right outside of Chicago.
[5:34] Yeah. I was adopted at the age of four.
[5:39] Brought into foster care at the age of two.
[5:41] Never lived with another family.
[5:42] So it was me and my adopted mom.
[5:46] I grew up, when I was five,
[5:48] I started taking dance classes at a dance studio
[5:52] because I had some mobility,
[5:54] like I was having issues balancing and stuff.
[5:56] So my mom thought, oh, that'd be great.
[5:58] She didn't know anything about dance.
[5:59] She was a sports person. Yeah.
[6:01] So she never really, she enjoyed theater,
[6:03] but never really was a theater per like a performer. So
[6:07] Was it your therapist who said that you should take
[6:10] Dance?
[6:11] Yeah. Yep. So the occupational therapist
[6:12] and the physical therapist both recommended it.
[6:15] So I ended up taking dance, ended up becoming a part
[6:19] of like a competitive dance team.
[6:21] Oh. That was called Minis.
[6:23] It was a part of a dance studio
[6:24] called Stephanie's Academy of Dance.
[6:26] They're actually still in business.
[6:27] I think they're on their 20th
[6:28] anniversary this year. It's kind of crazy.
[6:30] Oh. Have you been back and said, Hey,
[6:32] I'm gonna give you guys a couple of dollars.
[6:33] You know, you started me on
[6:34] My route.
[6:35] I follow along online
[6:36] and kind of followed their, what they're up to.
[6:38] Nice. But kind of grew up doing ballet, tap jazz, modern
[6:43] competitively until I was in high school.
[6:47] Or eh, seventh grade is when I stopped competitive dancing.
[6:51] But I auditioned for the Joffrey Ballet Nutcracker
[6:53] when I was young as well.
[6:55] And I was actually in their
[6:56] children's ensemble for quite a few years. Growing. Nice.
[6:59] Growing up. So you were driving in,
[7:00] your parents were driving you into Chicago.
[7:02] Yep. Yep. And it was just single mom and then Dedicat.
[7:07] We Usually had up to six foster kids
[7:10] that she would foster a time too.
[7:13] What an amazing woman. Yeah. So,
[7:16] Yeah. Is she still with us?
[7:19] She is. We don't necessarily have a relationship.
[7:25] When my grandfather passed away, she was never the same.
[7:29] And so he passed away when I was in the eighth grade.
[7:32] And so like, our relationship just always
[7:35] was kind of rocky from there.
[7:36] Okay. Unfortunately. Okay. So wonderful human.
[7:41] Yes. I mean, I don't regret anything in life. Mm.
[7:45] But growing, not necessarily Either. Growing. Yep.
[7:46] Growing up there was always a very positive
[7:48] light and Yeah. Yeah.
[7:49] Yeah. But, and growing up being a
[7:52] teenager is already difficult.
[7:54] Oh yeah. Because you're finding your way, you're finding out
[7:57] who you are, and it's like, oh my God.
[8:00] And your the parents
[8:01] or the authority figure, whoever's there, they're struggling
[8:05] with you going from childhood to going into adulthood.
[8:10] That can be a, you're like, yes, I got hit. I know
[8:14] I'm doing it now.
[8:16] And it's you, you wanna give them grace.
[8:18] 'cause you remember how hard it was at 15.
[8:20] I have a 15-year-old and an 18-year-old at home.
[8:23] And obviously the 18-year-old, he's in college.
[8:25] He, I want him to be as much of adult
[8:28] as necessary and what he could do.
[8:29] But I'm still got the reminders going, you know? Indeed.
[8:32] And then with Oakley, my 15-year-old, I mean,
[8:36] she is miss Independent.
[8:37] She knows what she wants,
[8:39] but there's still guidance that is needed there.
[8:41] Yes. As a 15-year-old, you know? Yes.
[8:42] So it's that fine line of, yes, I'm still your parent,
[8:45] but I almost feel like a, you know,
[8:48] the buffers in a bowling lane.
[8:49] Right. You, you gotta bounce off of me.
[8:52] It's okay to make mistakes and I want you to make mistakes.
[8:54] I think that's the biggest thing right now. Yeah. Yeah.
[8:56] Is to learn how to cope.
[8:58] Learn how to cope and recover. Yes. Yes.
[9:01] Learn how to get back up, start it off.
[9:04] Learn the lessons you need to learn. I'm going through that.
[9:07] Even with my grandchildren who are 11,
[9:11] they wanna have a girlfriend, they're twins.
[9:15] And one is very popular. The other one isn't so popular.
[9:19] He's gonna hear this. I'm sorry.
[9:21] I'm sorry that I'm telling your story. It's okay.
[9:23] Because other children are going through this,
[9:25] so I'm just using you as an example sweetheart.
[9:28] But they have different personalities. Yeah.
[9:32] And some one is a, is really in a group.
[9:36] The other one isn't. So there's some conflict there.
[9:39] But I'm like, you have your own journey. Yes.
[9:41] And you have your own journey.
[9:43] And don't get so into your friends
[9:46] that you forget your brother.
[9:48] Yeah. You will always have your brother,
[9:50] not necessarily your friends.
[9:52] I am not interviewing myself. I'm interviewing.
[9:55] Yeah. But it's, it's, it's that connection. It all.
[9:58] It does. Yep. And I think I really appreciate as a mother
[10:03] that my kids, they have really bonded.
[10:05] They've always been pretty close. There's only three years,
[10:07] but this last year, Jake takes Oakley
[10:11] to school and picks her up every day.
[10:12] Thank you, Jake. I love you. But they've really bonded.
[10:16] Oh, that's awesome. So like, Jake coming into his adulthood
[10:19] and you know, girls do mature a bit quicker Yeah.
[10:21] Than males. And in that aspect,
[10:24] they're almost on the same level.
[10:25] And it's great to see as a parent where you can just kind
[10:27] of like, all right, job is mostly done.
[10:31] I say mostly you got, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[10:33] That is nice. That is
[10:34] Awesome.
[10:35] Awesome. No, you don't have any children, Christopher? No,
[10:39] No children.
[10:40] Well, Oakley and Jake, you do
[10:42] Have side, you have, you know, little adopted children.
[10:46] I'll send mine him. Okay, cool.
[10:49] What about your siblings? Were they technically siblings?
[10:52] The other foster children
[10:53] Who were up enough?
[10:54] So when I was in the sixth grade, my half brother
[10:59] came to, or we found out that he, I was curious about like,
[11:03] did my birth mother have any more children?
[11:05] Okay. And so we didn't know.
[11:07] And so he had been actually brought into foster care.
[11:10] He's five years younger than I am.
[11:12] And so he was living with another family.
[11:15] And that other family we went to visit where like,
[11:18] he's gonna be adopted by this other family.
[11:20] So we were all prepared for that.
[11:22] And then he ended up, the family decided that he needed
[11:26] to be with like our family because of the sibling.
[11:31] Or like, they wanted him to have a sibling
[11:34] that was like blood related.
[11:35] Yes. So they decided that they weren't gonna adopt him.
[11:38] And so he came and lived with us.
[11:40] And then we adopted him as well.
[11:42] Or, and then I have a brother, his name is Massimo.
[11:46] I still talked with with him.
[11:49] He is not related to me at all,
[11:52] but is four years younger than me.
[11:55] And so we've always been pretty close and yeah. Nice.
[11:58] And then I have a sister Annalise,
[12:00] when I was a junior in high school.
[12:02] She's a half sister as well. All, all have the same mom.
[12:06] She ended up moving in with us when I was a junior.
[12:10] And then she was adopted in 2016, I think.
[12:15] Okay. So, yep. Wonderful big family. Yes.
[12:19] Lots of you Guys running around.
[12:21] Yeah. Always had foster kids as well. And Okay.
[12:24] Other, sometimes some of those foster children would live
[12:27] with us for a few days 'cause we,
[12:29] they needed a respite care. How
[12:30] Did you, how, how did you,
[12:32] how did you navigate that? How did you feel
[12:34] About that issue?
[12:35] It was always just like, we always just kind
[12:36] of knew someone might be coming to live with us. Yeah. Wow.
[12:39] Okay. And you were all just cool with it all.
[12:43] We got another person here.
[12:44] I guess when you're a kid, you don't
[12:45] really know the difference.
[12:46] Looking back at it now was probably weird, but like
[12:49] Parents, how did that happen?
[12:50] Parents. And then the parents just made it seem like,
[12:52] oh, we got more people.
[12:54] Yep. That is so awesome.
[12:56] Yeah. It was really cool. Yeah. When, when
[12:58] You think about The children in need
[13:00] know these days, go
[13:01] Ahead.
[13:02] Yeah, most definitely. There was like children also
[13:03] that would have like special needs
[13:05] or attachment disorders and stuff like that.
[13:07] And so like, just like seeing people in all their different
[13:09] walks of life and what
[13:10] they're, what they were going through.
[13:12] I feel like as an adult has maybe more empathetic towards
[13:15] people that might not necessarily fit
[13:18] in with the normal crowd.
[13:20] And you are definitely that person.
[13:22] Yes, he is. Yeah. You feel deeply for people.
[13:26] I try to, sometimes you have to,
[13:28] sometimes you have to shut that off too.
[13:29] Yeah. Yeah. But definitely
[13:31] because you can wind up taking on people's energies.
[13:33] Yeah. You can't be taking that home
[13:34] all the time either. Well,
[13:35] I'm sure you're empath.
[13:37] Empath. Yeah. Yeah. And we take on
[13:39] people's energies. Yeah. Really. Do
[13:41] I have to shut it down? Yeah. Oh
[13:43] Yeah.
[13:44] Oh my God. That's, I, yeah.
[13:45] I go into like, you know, you have to protect yourself
[13:47] because you can get drained very easily that way. Yeah.
[13:51] So did you know that you had this
[13:56] performance side, this empath?
[13:58] Because I think that in order to be on stage
[14:00] and to be effective on stage, you have
[14:02] to have a little of that, right?
[14:04] Yes. Did you know as a child that there was something,
[14:06] did you ever feel like there was something different about
[14:09] you that you just didn't always fit in?
[14:14] Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's necessarily
[14:17] different or didn't always fit in.
[14:20] I loved people. I loved going up talking to people.
[14:24] So I was that kid that would be like, hi, I'm Katie.
[14:27] You know? And I think it's obviously stuck
[14:29] with me into my middle age.
[14:32] I was always that way.
[14:34] And I would always say I was personable.
[14:35] I think a word that has been used
[14:39] to describe me since I was little was bubbly.
[14:41] Right? Yeah. So I,
[14:42] and I know that sometimes it's always not good
[14:45] to have like the big energy.
[14:47] You know, some people don't perceive that
[14:49] as a good thing sometimes, you know what I mean?
[14:51] And, and take it as like, whoa, what's happening?
[14:54] Like I need to set back. But I have also been
[14:57] just very true in myself.
[14:58] So I've just, I, not that I don't have insecurities,
[15:02] 'cause I do, we all do.
[15:03] But I just kind of try to lead with kindness
[15:05] and live that way, you know?
[15:07] And hope that I know sometimes, you know,
[15:10] I'll put my foot in my mouth or something.
[15:12] 'cause I obviously, I'm a talker. We have to, we'll
[15:15] Do. Yeah.
[15:16] Yeah. But it just, I think as a performer, I think
[15:18] that goes hand in hand.
[15:20] You know? And you're, and and being able to relate to people
[15:23] because you have to be able to, you know,
[15:25] give back in a scene when you're acting to know
[15:29] that in your personal life already is so good
[15:32] to bring that to the stage. Yeah.
[15:34] So you never had an issue being outgoing and,
[15:39] and awe when you were a kid
[15:41] With friends?
[15:42] No, other than the flubs like with my, you know,
[15:44] make a joyful noise into the Lord.
[15:46] And then the Annie auditioned those
[15:48] and I obviously those stuck with me
[15:50] because like I can, I can remember, you know?
[15:52] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
[15:53] My kazoo, I was like, just put your kazoo in your mouth.
[15:57] But other than that, I was always the one
[15:59] that I feel like if someone is new,
[16:01] I wanna go up and say hi.
[16:03] Yeah. You know what I mean?
[16:04] You're, no, you're no longer new. Right. Good for you.
[16:07] Because I,
[16:08] and I think basing it on like a civic level, I came in
[16:14] to do the workshop for Hunchback
[16:17] and you know, coming in
[16:18] as a brand new person, there's a lot.
[16:20] I mean, it's a family. That
[16:21] Was your first experience with the Civic
[16:23] Minus polka dots?
[16:25] I got called in to help with wigs for that one.
[16:26] Okay. With Oakley. Oakley
[16:28] Was that, oh no.
[16:29] We have to figure out how you, I know
[16:30] how you navigated this course, but let me just ask you.
[16:33] Yeah, yeah. Chris, growing up, did you, did you know
[16:36] that you were, there was something in you
[16:40] that was pulling you to the stage?
[16:43] Most definitely kept being pulled back
[16:45] to the stage time and time again.
[16:46] Okay. I don't know if I ever thought
[16:48] that it would lead to where I am now.
[16:51] Like job wise, yes.
[16:53] But I didn't know if that was always an option. So yeah.
[16:56] You don't always have to be an actor on stage.
[16:58] Now, in my day to day, I plan events
[17:01] and make the civic look beautiful
[17:04] and make sure the patrons are happy and
[17:06] Wonderful.
[17:07] Yeah. So did you have a group that you fit in with?
[17:10] I always felt like an outsider, so I'm just trying
[17:12] to see if anybody, if anybody would like me.
[17:14] Yeah. I didn't, never really, I just did not fit
[17:15] in with the other kids.
[17:17] And I always knew, I knew that I was gonna be on stage.
[17:22] Oh yeah. You on stage.
[17:23] Did anybody have, did anybody else have
[17:25] That Feeling?
[17:26] I mean, I never really was like at school a lot.
[17:29] Like I was at school during the day,
[17:30] but I never did like extracurriculars.
[17:32] 'cause I was always busy doing like, dance related dancing,
[17:36] going to Chicago, going to the city.
[17:38] Yeah. And so there were days where, I mean, I just,
[17:42] I knew kids in my class, but I didn't know them.
[17:44] It wasn't until high school where I really like made like
[17:47] friends, I would say.
[17:50] Cool, cool, cool. All my friends lived in Chicago
[17:53] or lived in other suburbs.
[17:54] Whoa. Yeah. That wasn't,
[17:56] and they were all a part of the dance scene.
[17:57] Yeah. Okay. So you had your, you had a community? I
[18:01] Did, yeah.
[18:02] I just was the outsider, like the school and the normal,
[18:06] The normal kids.
[18:07] Yeah. The normal kids. The normies.
[18:10] See we didn't have, we didn't have dance programs
[18:13] where I grew up in East St.
[18:14] Louis. We didn't have theater programs where I grew up.
[18:17] We just had a high school choir and church choir. Yeah.
[18:20] And that was about it. So I know I would've been involved
[18:23] had we had those things.
[18:24] Right. But we just didn't.
[18:26] So I was like, oh, well one day it's all good. Look at
[18:29] You now. Look at you now. Life,
[18:31] Life has a way
[18:32] of bringing you whatever it is that you need.
[18:35] Yeah, you do. You put it out there.
[18:38] I, on the friend front, I went to Christ Lutheran.
[18:41] And you were,
[18:43] You were in a, a Christian School?
[18:44] I was raised, yes. Very conservative. Christian. Lutheran.
[18:48] Okay. Since kindergarten through eighth grade.
[18:52] And our fifth and sixth grade and our seventh
[18:54] and eighth grade classes
[18:55] were together 'cause we were so small.
[18:57] So I grew up very, I always felt way too big for that.
[19:02] Very tight, you know. Oh,
[19:04] I can imagine.
[19:05] Upbringing. So that was good to have different outlets
[19:07] with dance 'cause it wasn't part of that school
[19:09] or you know, I hung out with the public kids,
[19:12] you know, that was another thing.
[19:15] And then I was lucky enough to go
[19:16] to Lake Shore High School public school.
[19:17] But as far as friends, my best friend
[19:20] that since I was three,
[19:22] she actually lives in Kalamazoo with her husband.
[19:24] So like full circle. Just a weird shout out to Mandy.
[19:29] Weird moment Tuesday.
[19:32] How did she get to Kalamazoo?
[19:33] She went to West, well her husband went to Western. Okay.
[19:36] Then she came up here and they never, they never left.
[19:39] So it's kind of weird how I ended up here. So many.
[19:42] How did you end up here?
[19:43] I mean, my story's crazy.
[19:45] So after I did community college
[19:47] at Lake Michigan Community College, I moved to Chicago
[19:50] to do cosmetology school. So that's
[19:53] There, here in the makeup part comes in. Okay.
[19:56] And then I moved to Miami
[19:58] and lived there for five years. But
[20:00] Why did you, why Maya?
[20:03] I hate to say it a guy, it was our guy.
[20:06] Of course I told my parents it wasn't a guy,
[20:08] but of course it was a guy.
[20:09] Obviously that relationship did
[20:11] not work out and that's fine.
[20:13] But I also met my best friend, business partner that I, I,
[20:17] I mean, so it's just like every little avenue
[20:21] I now in my life have a piece of that.
[20:23] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So,
[20:27] So cool.
[20:28] It's fun. So wait a minute, wait a minute. Yeah.
[20:30] You went to Chicago,
[20:32] Did cosmetology.
[20:33] Cosmetology at Pivot. Why Cosme at Pivot Born?
[20:36] I remember Pivot Point. I'm gonna
[20:38] get to how you game to Oh yeah.
[20:39] How you love Chicago area. Yeah. And got to Kalamazoo. Yeah.
[20:42] So just keep all those stories in mind. Gotta
[20:45] Build it up.
[20:47] Yeah. So I did cosmetology. Why I always loved doing hair.
[20:51] So in, in high school, I mean first of all,
[20:53] all my Barbies dolls.
[20:55] Yeah. All their hair's cut, you know what I mean?
[20:57] I always like, I was in there with it.
[20:59] Makeup, always loved it.
[21:01] And in high school, I would be
[21:02] the one doing my friend's hair.
[21:03] I'd be the one doing Updos.
[21:05] So I'm like, why not get trained?
[21:08] And I was looking at Vidal Suun in London. Oh. Ooh.
[21:11] Don't think I'm not, yeah,
[21:12] I kick myself every once in a while in this middle age life.
[21:14] But I ended up in Chicago, which was great.
[21:17] And at the time my brother lived at the apartment
[21:20] across the street from me too.
[21:21] So, you know, again, being that 19-year-old close to 20,
[21:27] it, it was really good to have that support
[21:29] and plus hop, skip and jump away from home at the time.
[21:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[21:33] Awesome. And your parents sound phenomenal. No,
[21:39] I wanna say that you
[21:41] Were just that kind of kid. I gotta
[21:42] Do it.
[21:43] Well I was raised, I have no, I had no want as a kid.
[21:46] I had no want. No need As a kid, everything was great.
[21:51] You know, unfortunately my mother
[21:54] and I did not get along very well.
[21:56] And coming up work now coming up on six years
[21:59] that I haven't had a relationship with my parents
[22:03] or my brother, which is very sad.
[22:05] But I actually have a very good
[22:07] relationship with my brother's wife.
[22:09] Okay. So I'm not completely, you know, away from it.
[22:14] But I healthy enough for me to have a little touch into it.
[22:17] But I worked through therapy
[22:19] and it was the right decision, especially for my husband
[22:21] and my kids and I, yes.
[22:23] Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So good for you.
[22:24] But as far as childhood, I always say like
[22:27] I wouldn't change anything.
[22:29] My father, you know, he was loved me unconditionally.
[22:33] Yeah. Yes. Yep. That's
[22:34] Awesome.
[22:35] Awesome. You,
[22:36] you were just a trailblazer making your way from St.
[22:40] Joe. I'm going to Chicago
[22:42] and now I'm going to live in Florida and from Florida.
[22:47] Aw. Yes. So what I realized
[22:50] with being a cosmetologist Yeah.
[22:52] Is you don't get health insurance. Oh.
[22:55] And I got kidney stones while I was in Florida
[22:58] and ended up with a, you know,
[23:00] I was in the hospital like five different times
[23:02] 'cause I was obstructed.
[23:03] So what I realized, what is important, especially at
[23:06] that timeframe in my life, 21, 22, I need something
[23:10] that will pay for health insurance when there's emergency.
[23:12] So I ended up leaving as artistic director at a salon
[23:17] and I did the educational and I loved it,
[23:19] but I really needed a job that would give me the benefits.
[23:23] Yes. So my leasing office at where I lived was hiring
[23:26] for a leasing agent and they're like, you talk to anybody?
[23:31] No. How serendipitous that. Yeah.
[23:33] So I ended up working with this
[23:35] leasing office, which is great.
[23:36] I got health benefits, still did hair on the side. Yeah.
[23:38] Worked at Carabas. Did like three different jobs.
[23:41] Then Reef Management, who the leasing company was through,
[23:45] had accounts payable in Chicago.
[23:48] And at this time I still had a
[23:50] relationship like with my family.
[23:51] So I had to come back for help.
[23:53] I was about, I wanted to move closer.
[23:55] So I applied for that job over Christmas.
[23:57] So I ended up getting that job. This was January, 2005.
[24:02] I ended up moving back into Chicago. Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah.
[24:06] Which is a funny story. I know we'll get to it.
[24:08] But the day, January 22nd, 2005 when I was
[24:11] moving my stuff in, yeah.
[24:13] Blizzard, my husband now called me on the
[24:17] phone and I'm sitting in my apartment.
[24:18] He had no idea that I had moved back to home.
[24:21] So I just always remember that date too. Yeah.
[24:26] You got so many reading. We do that stories my adhd. Oh
[24:30] No, no, no, no it's not.
[24:32] It's just your life. Your life. Yeah. Chris.
[24:34] Yes. How did you get from
[24:38] after you graduated high school?
[24:42] I did two years at the local community college
[24:44] College of DuPage.
[24:46] Okay. Okay. I know College Illinois Glen of DuPage,
[24:48] they have their best jazz station there.
[24:50] They do, yeah. They do have good jazz Station
[24:51] W dcb.
[24:52] Yep, they do.
[24:54] And then was dating someone
[24:57] and was doing theater in the Chicagoland area.
[25:01] Non-equity kind of theater. Wait
[25:02] A minute, how did you get into theater?
[25:03] You can't skip over that. Okay.
[25:05] So No. So I was in dance. Yeah.
[25:08] And then when I was in the fifth grade,
[25:10] they had local auditions for the Wizard Oz.
[25:13] Auditioned for the Wizard of Oz was cast as a munchkin
[25:16] and the Lollipop Guild.
[25:17] Oh. And then kind of started my theater journey from there.
[25:20] Yeah. And then kind of when I was in the seventh
[25:24] and eighth grade, it was like made clear to me
[25:26] that like you had to choose theater or dance.
[25:29] You couldn't do both when you got to high school. Yeah.
[25:31] So I ended up going towards theater.
[25:34] And so I did theater sophomore through senior year I act,
[25:39] sorry, freshman year I was in one show.
[25:41] I was in Jack and the Beanstalk. I was a bean stalker. Oh.
[25:46] Oh, Nice. See you
[25:49] Guys had, you had schools that offered those programs.
[25:52] I know, I know. That's crazy. I hated
[25:53] you guys, but that's okay.
[25:55] That's my sophomore. We did not. But that's all so good.
[25:59] And that's one, one thing I really love
[26:01] about Kalamazoo. Yeah.
[26:02] We have so many maca opportunities here.
[26:04] Yes, yes. Go
[26:05] Ahead.
[26:06] So then my sophomore year they were doing Into the Woods
[26:09] and I did not wanna audition for some reason.
[26:12] Just decided I didn't wanna be on stage. Yes.
[26:15] And so I assistant directed the show.
[26:17] But you were still there. Yep. Still in the media.
[26:20] And so the director had me do a few scenes
[26:23] and so she ended up changing my title from assistant
[26:26] director to student director, which is really cool.
[26:28] And so I was able to kind of work my way up in
[26:31] that theater program and direct a few shows
[26:34] and choreograph a few shows and kind of too.
[26:37] Yeah. Kind of had that side as well.
[26:40] And then went to community college,
[26:42] did some theater in the Chicagoland area.
[26:44] Which, which groups? I did a show with the,
[26:48] or a few shows with Oaklawn Park District Theater.
[26:51] Okay. I did a show with,
[26:55] oh my god, what are they called?
[26:57] Is they center? No, Brightside Brightstar Theater. Okay.
[27:02] And then I did another one
[27:04] with Jed Laca Performing Arts Center in Cicero.
[27:07] Okay. And I was in Miss
[27:08] Saigon there. So that was really cool.
[27:09] Oh, why Now? It was my fav, one
[27:11] of my favorite experiences.
[27:12] I met a friend named Shauna there. Yes.
[27:15] And they were doing the production of Miss Saigon.
[27:19] She had been called in to come
[27:22] to a civic theater in South Bend to play the part of Kim.
[27:26] And so I went to go see her in the show
[27:28] and the guy I was dating at the time that we had kind
[27:31] of broken up, there was some like abuse going on
[27:35] and it was just, it was not a good situation.
[27:37] And, and so I ended up finding, like the director
[27:42] who directed the show, Ms.
[27:43] Lagon, that she was in, invited me to come
[27:46] and stay with them for a year to kind of get out
[27:49] of my situation and kind of spend time.
[27:50] Oh yeah. What? And so I was like,
[27:53] well like I would obviously
[27:54] pay you rent and stuff like that.
[27:55] And they're like, Nope, we want you to come down
[27:57] to South Bend and just be here
[28:00] and you can have a job and all that.
[28:02] And as long as you're taking care of stuff around the house
[28:06] and helping us out.
[28:07] Great whiz.
[28:08] What are these people? Right. That's what I'm saying.
[28:10] I know. But you know, they're really all around. They are.
[28:13] They really are. They really are good people.
[28:15] Gravity to those people. But
[28:17] Also like you would pay it forward.
[28:19] Oh, do you know what I'm saying? Like icy Topher.
[28:22] Yeah, exactly. Yes.
[28:23] Like this is exactly what you would do as well. Yeah,
[28:25] Indeed.
[28:26] That's your spirit now. Yeah,
[28:28] For sure.
[28:29] And so did some stuff at South or in South Bend area?
[28:32] I was in production of Chicago there at St. Mary's College.
[28:36] Oh yeah. Right. With
[28:38] and Notre Dame had,
[28:39] they had some male students from Notre Dame come over
[28:41] and do some show or do the show as well.
[28:43] And yeah. So got to know a lot of the Notre Dame and St.
[28:46] Mary's group and then did some stuff at their civic theater
[28:50] there, the South Bend Civic Theater
[28:52] and a few shows at Premier Arts.
[28:54] And then met my ex-husband now,
[28:58] but met, his name is Chucky and we are still friends.
[29:01] Good. And I worked for the travel agency
[29:03] that his family Okay.
[29:04] Owns. And so yeah, we started dating,
[29:09] I worked at a restaurant in the area.
[29:11] I worked at a AAA for Diamond Restaurant there as a server.
[29:15] Really loved my job
[29:17] and ended up getting married in 2020.
[29:21] We moved to South
[29:22] or we moved from South Bend
[29:24] to Kalamazoo in July of 2020. And
[29:26] What prompted that move?
[29:28] You know, the restaurant industry was really
[29:31] in not in a great spot.
[29:33] Yes. He was missing his family. Mm.
[29:36] I had become very close with the family
[29:38] and so we kind of just made the decision
[29:40] that it was best to move here.
[29:42] 'cause my job wasn't, it was gonna be,
[29:45] there was gonna be restaurant jobs,
[29:47] but it just wasn't something I wanted to do at that point,
[29:50] either with COVID going on.
[29:52] So yeah, it was weird. Yeah, it's interesting.
[29:54] And then that brought me here and then kind of auditioned
[29:58] for a show or we got married in December.
[30:00] Yeah. Of 2020. Yeah.
[30:03] And then we,
[30:05] or I auditioned for Mama Mia at the Kindle Burger Festival
[30:08] here in Kalamazoo and was cast in Mama Mia.
[30:11] And then met some people and led me to the Civic.
[30:15] Met some people at Kindle Burger.
[30:17] They were like, you've gotta come to the Civic.
[30:19] Yep. They sure did. Oh wow. Nice. Yeah.
[30:23] So I met my friend Carly Stoker
[30:25] and my friend Maggie used to be Pelo Cho.
[30:28] Now it's ow wi, I think I said it right this time.
[30:31] Sna ni. I knew I was close.
[30:35] You're welcome Maggie Ci. So Skin.
[30:38] Okay. So, yep. And they both were civic people.
[30:41] So we all auditioned for Newsies and we were all in Newsies.
[30:44] And that was my first show at the Civic.
[30:46] I've heard so much about that show.
[30:47] It was a great show. It Was Beau, it was so fun. Yeah,
[30:50] Well the Civic is
[30:53] amazing. It's
[30:55] Just, we are so lucky. So
[30:57] Lucky.
[30:58] It's family. I mean, it's my family, you know,
[31:01] touching about, it's your family again
[31:03] and ex you become family, you know?
[31:06] So yeah. Yes.
[31:09] So tell me about
[31:14] your experiences, some of your best, worst moments
[31:20] at this place we love called the Civic
[31:23] Theater of Kalamazoo.
[31:25] No, you said that there was a civic theater someplace else.
[31:28] South Bend Civic Theater.
[31:29] South South. South Bend, civic.
[31:31] So is the Civic like part of a A group?
[31:36] So this is what I like to think of it as. Okay.
[31:38] Community theater is the thing. Okay.
[31:41] And then I feel like there's Civic theater.
[31:42] Community theater is very much your Mon Pop. Yes, yes.
[31:47] Everyone volunteers. Your civic theater has like a staff.
[31:50] Okay. And established staff.
[31:52] And then they have volunteers that do the shows
[31:55] and help around with hair and makeup and costumes
[31:59] and scenery and stuff like that.
[32:01] And I feel like they're very,
[32:02] they're two very different entities
[32:04] where we have a few community theaters in Kalamazoo
[32:07] and then we have the Civic theater.
[32:09] Yes, yes. And then you have the Farmer's Alley
[32:12] And then you have your Equity, which is equity.
[32:14] Yes. Yes. The Civic.
[32:17] I did not even know about the Civic
[32:19] before I came to Chicago, you know,
[32:22] and I'm in Chicago, so I know about Stephan Wolf
[32:25] and I know about the Goodman, then I know about lots
[32:27] of other smaller theaters.
[32:29] And those are basically on the north side.
[32:32] I lived on the south side,
[32:33] I had my own little performing arts group.
[32:36] We didn't do professional theater,
[32:38] but we, I still train them as actors and dancers.
[32:42] But coming here to Kalamazoo
[32:45] and then getting involved
[32:47] with the Civic was a total experience.
[32:52] A total experience.
[32:54] And what was it like for you
[32:58] when you first came to the Civic?
[33:02] I mean, I was bit by the bug.
[33:03] I, I had taken time off to get married, have babies.
[33:08] I invented a beauty tool.
[33:10] So I had all these like things, you know, that led up to it.
[33:14] And then Oakley actually auditioned.
[33:16] Were you doing hair here?
[33:18] I was doing it on the side. Okay.
[33:20] So salon wise it was just in Florida.
[33:22] And then I've done like hair and makeup. All different. Yes.
[33:25] So yes. But just not at a salon here. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
[33:28] Yeah. But I definitely did it.
[33:30] Like all my clients, they would come to my house,
[33:32] I'd go to theirs, you know. How did you get your
[33:34] Reputation here?
[33:36] I think, 'cause again, I'm just a talker
[33:38] and usually word of mouth.
[33:40] And then they're like, you do hair
[33:41] well, duh, duh dah, you know?
[33:43] So then I started going around
[33:45] and highlighting colors my specialty.
[33:49] But Oakley auditioned for Newsies.
[33:53] She's like, mom, can you teach show? I know.
[33:55] She's like, can you teach me how to tap dance in an hour?
[33:58] And I'm like, ha, no, I tried. But that was it.
[34:03] And then I didn't get that one.
[34:05] She then went to audition for Polka Dots.
[34:07] Were you here for that? No. What year was Polka Dots?
[34:10] Like three years ago, right? Yeah, it was three years ago.
[34:13] And I got called in.
[34:15] 'cause my reputation as a cosmetologist. Yeah.
[34:18] And they're like, can you please help us with wigs?
[34:20] We have 30 wigs that need to be cut and styled.
[34:23] It was Tuesday of tech wig.
[34:25] And so that is how I 30 wigs. 30.
[34:30] 30 blue wigs.
[34:31] One wait, 29 blue wigs, one purple wig, right? Yep.
[34:34] Because it's the Ruby Bridges story. Okay.
[34:37] And so there's one girl that is a
[34:42] Polka dot.
[34:43] That's a dot. And then the rest are squares. Okay.
[34:45] So, So it's about race, but it is
[34:48] Nuts.
[34:49] At the same time, color and shape was used. And Yes. So Oak,
[34:53] The drinking fountain is very
[34:55] Prevalent in the story.
[34:56] Yes, it is. Yeah. It was such a cute
[34:58] in the parish. Very interesting.
[35:00] Oh my God, That was great.
[35:01] So Oakley and then that was it.
[35:03] And then I decided to do like audition for Hunchback and,
[35:07] and I did not get cast, but that's okay.
[35:10] Actually, Mike Artis, who was directing the show, talked
[35:14] to Anthony and said, she's a great dancer.
[35:17] I think she might be a good choreographer.
[35:18] And then that's how
[35:20] I ended up on the choreographer
[35:22] side of things. And And what
[35:23] Did you choreograph?
[35:24] So my first show was Forever Plaid.
[35:26] The Carver. Okay. Okay. It
[35:28] Was And Cody was In that Cody, yes.
[35:30] Cody was in that. And so was Matt. So was Matt. So was Matt.
[35:33] Oh my. And one of the best experience,
[35:38] literally to this day.
[35:40] The whole entire company. Everybody. Yeah. It was magical.
[35:44] Awesome. It was magical.
[35:45] Awesome. How did you come to the Civic?
[35:48] So I was in Newsies and kind of got by that theater bug
[35:52] and really loved the group.
[35:55] And then they were hiring for a box office associate.
[36:01] And so I applied for that job
[36:02] and got that in the February of, oh God, what year was that?
[36:06] 2024. 2024. Just
[36:08] 2024.
[36:09] No, no, it had to be 2020.
[36:11] 2023. Yeah, 2023. Yeah.
[36:14] Was when Hunchback was, it was May of 2023. Okay. Now, yeah.
[36:18] Yeah. It took me a second. Wow.
[36:19] And so I was working in the box office
[36:21] and then in January of 2024, the job came available
[36:26] for the audience engagement manager.
[36:29] And so that's what my job is now.
[36:30] So I went from the box office to that.
[36:33] Nice. And kind of have been there since. Yeah.
[36:35] And you're still doing shows.
[36:37] And I'm still doing shows. That is wonderful.
[36:39] I tried to do at least one a season this year.
[36:41] Hopefully two. We'll see the producers, he auditioned. Yeah.
[36:44] The producers auditions happen. So we shall see. Yep. Yeah.
[36:48] And you auditioned. I did audition. Yep.
[36:51] So we will see. Yeah. There's supposed
[36:52] to be a callback list sometime today. So
[36:55] It's probably today. It
[36:56] Probably is. It probably is. But
[36:58] You got the callback.
[36:59] You got It. We hope. We hope. We hope.
[37:01] Look at that face. Did you audition?
[37:04] I did not because I held true.
[37:06] I said I was gonna take time off member after Annie. Yes.
[37:09] And you went four shows in a three shows in a row.
[37:11] Yeah. I mean I, you know,
[37:13] and then when you do an opener,
[37:14] you start in the summer, you know, for Kama.
[37:17] And, but I have held through and I've taken my time off
[37:22] and I'll be ready to get back into it in May. Good, good.
[37:25] Yeah. Now I could talk about the Civic forever. Yes.
[37:28] But, and I will get back to the Civic. Yes. No, no, no.
[37:31] I'm gonna talk about the Civic a little bit.
[37:32] What do you really love about this Civic?
[37:35] I know my experience with the Civic is,
[37:36] has been really, really good.
[37:38] For one thing, I get to meet great people like you guys.
[37:41] And every time I'm in a show, I meet more people
[37:45] for more relationships and,
[37:47] and it's always just expanding my world, I think.
[37:52] And I get the opportunity at my age to get back on stage.
[37:57] Yes. To do something that I really, really love.
[38:00] That I feel like I'm connecting with the audience and,
[38:02] and that energy exchange on the stage,
[38:06] there's just nothing like it.
[38:07] I'm messing up, Christopher's looking
[38:09] at me like, what are you doing?
[38:10] What happen? That is not the step.
[38:13] I'm like, oh, you're right. Want me get back on here.
[38:15] We're tripping upstairs with packages.
[38:19] Can't turn on the line. Cancer.
[38:21] Yeah. I can't find the bug.
[38:23] Nobody knows. But at least I hope nobody knows.
[38:27] When did you really fall in love?
[38:30] When I was doing Newsies, I fell in love
[38:32] and then kind of was volunteering and helping usher shows.
[38:35] And it's a great way to get meet new volunteers as well.
[38:39] 'cause you'll see people that don't necessarily do things on
[38:42] stage, but they'll usher every show.
[38:43] So yeah. Got to meet those people.
[38:46] And then kind of just kept chugging along
[38:49] and really loved it since
[38:51] even working there, I still love it.
[38:54] Are there days where I'm like, every job?
[38:57] Yes, of course, of course. Yeah. Every, every place. Yeah.
[38:59] But it's nice to have a creative space as well,
[39:02] where you get to do what you love
[39:03] and then also have people that are also like-minded
[39:06] and love what they're doing as well.
[39:09] Katie, I mean, I just wanted to get on that stage.
[39:14] I do like behind the, the scenes. Yeah. Yeah.
[39:16] Which is very important.
[39:18] So the first show I actually made was Big Fish.
[39:22] The season opener for 20, 24. 23, 3. I don't even,
[39:26] Because it was after Hunchback.
[39:27] I mean, yeah. And,
[39:29] and once you're on that stage, you know, you know,
[39:32] and it just like, Ugh,
[39:35] I wanna do it again and again and again.
[39:36] Oh yeah. Yeah. And it just is the relationships you formed.
[39:39] Yeah. They're family.
[39:41] You know, I would say like one
[39:43] of my closest friends is Sarah Aiello.
[39:44] And I met her on Big Fish, one of our icebreakers.
[39:48] It was our first rehearsal.
[39:50] We had to sit back to back with someone we didn't know.
[39:52] Yeah. This was Shannon Hill, who was our director, did this.
[39:56] So it was Aiello and I who sat back to back.
[39:58] Isn't that funny? So when I look back at that, yeah.
[40:01] We didn't know each other. Yeah. We knew of
[40:03] 'cause you just kind of do in the community.
[40:05] Yeah. And to be now
[40:08] and just how much we progressed or develop.
[40:11] And then you and I, we would always say hi to each other.
[40:13] Yeah. Yeah. But to be in a show with you
[40:15] In a show, there's nothing like
[40:16] It.
[40:17] There was nothing like, it was just always magical.
[40:19] But it was like that much more, you know?
[40:21] And then, I mean, Topher is family.
[40:24] He is part of our family.
[40:25] How far you've been calling him? I've heard you. I know.
[40:27] Wait, wait a minute. We, we would be backstage
[40:31] and you say Topher, I'm like,
[40:32] Who is to, who is it?
[40:34] Who is this? Topher. I know.
[40:35] And I finally got it tonight.
[40:37] Yeah. Just now, Right Christopher? Yes. Yes. Topher.
[40:41] Well that's so cute. Well, and
[40:43] I think, does anybody else call you that?
[40:45] Well now people have, but I know it it,
[40:48] people always ask me, do you want,
[40:49] what do you prefer to go by?
[40:51] Like, Chris, Christopher, what do you like?
[40:52] And I said, I don't really care.
[40:54] And then I was telling a story one night at dinner
[40:56] that I had a teacher, 'cause my mom was very particular
[40:59] that I had to be Christopher and everything.
[41:01] And so I had a teacher her,
[41:03] she could never remember to say Christopher.
[41:05] She'd always call me Chris. So she
[41:06] ended up calling me Topher.
[41:08] Oh, I see. So that's, that's what ended up like ended up.
[41:11] Yeah. Yeah. Because I used
[41:12] to call Christopher in high school, Topher.
[41:15] Oh. And that's the first time I had heard
[41:16] it when he told me.
[41:18] And I said, wait a minute. And so it's been to another
[41:21] One of those moments.
[41:22] But we were in Cinderella together
[41:25] where we had a Prince Topher.
[41:26] So that was funny. That was real fun.
[41:28] When they're like, which Topher?
[41:29] And I'm like, obviously this one I would call Peter. Peter.
[41:32] Yes.
[41:34] So when did you guys really connect?
[41:37] We met through Wendy. We did Wendy Wheeler
[41:39] During, what was that? Big fish.
[41:42] Oh, it was Big fish. Well, well like we met, we met
[41:44] Before that.
[41:45] But like, yeah, it was during Big Fish
[41:46] And it was instantaneous.
[41:47] Yeah, for sure. I mean it was just right away.
[41:50] And I mean, I can't imagine life without you. That's crazy.
[41:53] That's crazy to even think that there was a time. Yeah.
[41:55] I mean he is, he's part, like I said, part of our family.
[41:57] He came to spend the holidays with us.
[42:00] My in-laws, which is actually funny story. Oh lord. I know.
[42:04] So he came to Jake's graduation this last May.
[42:07] And my in-laws were there.
[42:09] John and Susan And John taught at Wheaton.
[42:13] Well, Topher went to
[42:15] Wheaton. He was the gym teacher.
[42:16] So we're talking about No, no, I
[42:18] Know this is Okay. And Downers.
[42:19] Yeah. They live in Downers.
[42:21] Grove Shields. Yeah.
[42:22] So there's And and Topher goes, wait,
[42:24] I was there the time you were a PE teacher.
[42:27] Like they literally, did you have him as a PE teacher?
[42:30] I can't remember. I don't know for sure. Okay.
[42:31] I can't remember. It was a long time ago.
[42:33] He PE would've been middle. Yeah.
[42:34] It would've been his middle school years. Wheaton.
[42:37] And now my nephew goes to Wheaton.
[42:41] Like went to Wheaton. Yeah. No, yeah, he does. Yeah.
[42:43] Wheaton. I mean everything is like I know.
[42:47] That's why I say like, you know, as much as you
[42:50] wanna create your own path, things are laid out for you.
[42:53] Things are there.
[42:55] We were talking before the show started about
[42:58] there are are the dimensions.
[43:00] I believe now those are, you don't have to believe it.
[43:03] I'm not pushing anything on anyone.
[43:04] But I so believe that there are dimensions beyond
[43:08] our understanding that exists.
[43:12] Science might know about it, might not know about it.
[43:15] They say we have five senses.
[43:17] I believe we have several additional senses.
[43:20] And you were telling me about one story. Yeah.
[43:23] When you were in a car accident.
[43:24] Can you just say that again because Yes.
[43:25] I really want people to think outside the box.
[43:27] Christopher, have you had some experiences like this?
[43:29] Please share a couple of doors.
[43:31] Yeah. Yeah. I mean I was 16, my birthday's January 15th.
[43:35] And so I'm always, you know,
[43:37] I went right into a blizzard when I drove
[43:39] and I remember us coming back from
[43:41] a guy's playoff soccer game for our high school.
[43:44] A friend was following me home.
[43:45] I went to turn left and got into a head on collision.
[43:48] And my friend wasn't in my car, she was behind me
[43:51] as my friend because there were no cell phones at this time.
[43:54] Early nineties. My friend went to go use a house phone
[43:58] to call my parents.
[44:01] There was a gentleman with a yellow shirt on
[44:03] who was keeping me calm
[44:04] and saying everything's gonna be okay.
[44:06] And really just instead of the freak out and go into shock,
[44:10] 'cause I broke, you know, a couple bones.
[44:13] He kept me calm until my parents,
[44:15] who luckily were just down the street.
[44:17] So we were almost home. And then I was telling my friend,
[44:20] thank God for that guy in the yellow shirt, you know?
[44:22] And she goes, what guy in the yellow shirt?
[44:24] There was no guy in the yellow shirt.
[44:26] And it's like, you know, it's like that dream
[44:28] how you can kind of Yeah, I can still picture him.
[44:30] Yeah. Yeah. But I can't picture a face. Oh,
[44:34] And energy came to you and I believe an angel
[44:37] Came to you.
[44:38] I do too. I do too.
[44:39] It was an angel that was there right on the spot giving
[44:42] you exactly what
[44:44] You needed.
[44:45] Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
[44:47] Oh, and then there was something when you were in
[44:50] Yeah, so then of course I, yeah.
[44:52] Oh, Savannah. No, no, no. Go go with that one.
[44:54] I was just gonna finish this one. So then I obviously had
[44:56] to go, I actually got taken by ambulance to the hospital.
[44:59] Yes. And I was getting X-rays
[45:01] and they were like, Cynthia, you have to stay straight.
[45:03] And I'm like, you know, obviously car accident shock.
[45:05] And I'm like, wait, my name's not Cynthia.
[45:07] Come to find out the lady that I hit. Her name is Cynthia.
[45:10] So it just like, again, with all the alignment with that.
[45:14] And you know, honestly I was,
[45:17] I was raised believing in spirituality.
[45:19] You know, I, if you're Lutheran, if you're, no matter
[45:21] what religion, you know, you kind of take that spirituality.
[45:24] So I do believe in like the angel that was there
[45:27] and spirits and that.
[45:29] Yes. That leads me to Savannah.
[45:31] I have, I have a picture of a full body apparition
[45:34] happened in one of the squares.
[45:37] Over 200 bodies were buried.
[45:38] We actually found that out the next day.
[45:40] We did a segue tour. So we told the guy,
[45:42] and we showed him the picture of the ghosts
[45:43] that I showed you, which was a full body apparition
[45:46] of a soldier.
[45:48] Yes. The guy confirmed. Oh yeah. That lines right up.
[45:51] And then we looked at the uniform,
[45:52] everything lined up with it.
[45:54] And so the energy is in that type of town where there's
[45:56] so much tragedy and so much energy. Yeah,
[45:59] So much energy.
[46:00] The energy does not die. Yeah.
[46:03] So when people talk about death, I'm like,
[46:05] ah, it's a transition.
[46:07] Yeah, it's transition. Because energies do not die.
[46:10] Isn't that what the Einstein said?
[46:12] It's energy cannot be born, does not die,
[46:15] it just changes form.
[46:16] Right, right. Oh, I was in, I was in Africa
[46:19] and we went to the, I was in Ghana, we went down
[46:22] to Cape Coast and where the slaves were held
[46:25] until they were taken on the put on the boat.
[46:27] And we were standing in,
[46:30] in the ladies holding the women's holding cell.
[46:33] And the energies were so strong in there, I could feel them
[46:39] trying to communicate.
[46:40] And I just started crying and it was like,
[46:42] Have to get, it became visceral. It was,
[46:44] Yeah.
[46:45] It was. Oh my gosh. It was something. But what's your story,
[46:50] Christopher?
[46:51] So my ex-husband
[46:52] and I, he, his really good friend Sarah, when we moved
[46:57] to Kalamazoo, we, it was great to be with her.
[47:00] She had been diagnosed with cancer,
[47:02] breast cancer stage three at the time.
[47:05] She ended up like beating it and then it came back.
[47:10] So in 2022 in March,
[47:14] her mom had passed away and she asked Chucky
[47:18] and I, I, if we would be interested in living with her.
[47:21] She was, she was lonely and wanted some people there.
[47:24] And just also, I think it was good for us.
[47:27] We were living with his parents still.
[47:29] And it was probably, we had been there a little too long in
[47:31] my opinion, at that point it was time to move out.
[47:34] So we lived with her and she ended up getting cancer again.
[47:38] So we were there to take care
[47:39] of her and she became very Right.
[47:41] We, we became very close as well.
[47:43] And when she passed away, she did leave us her house.
[47:47] And so there would be times when I was in the house
[47:51] that I could smell her hairspray by the front door
[47:55] where she would be, the cats would go there all the time.
[47:58] So I knew she was there. Yes.
[47:59] And then I, there are times now where she,
[48:02] where I'll be at the Civic
[48:03] and in places where like I've been with her
[48:07] and like I just kind
[48:09] of just know she's there in some way or another.
[48:12] It's weird. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
[48:13] It's really, really, it's really bizarre. Yeah.
[48:16] But she's always kind of still around and Yeah,
[48:19] She's with you.
[48:21] She's with you comforting and cheering you on
[48:25] and letting you know everything is all right. So
[48:28] Yeah, when you were sharing
[48:29] that story about just like walking down
[48:33] to the, like the where the slaves were brought in
[48:37] to the ships when I was in New York
[48:40] with my friend Anastasia in May of last year.
[48:44] She and I, when we crossed the,
[48:48] the right before where Oh my gosh.
[48:51] The twin Towers would've been Yeah. Oh my gosh.
[48:54] Like we just both started crying
[48:56] and just like, you could just feel that heaviness around it.
[48:58] It was just Oh, kind of crazy. Yeah.
[49:01] To think that there were so many people that were there
[49:04] and now are no longer.
[49:06] Yeah. And two giant towers that are just no longer there and
[49:10] Attached to that Yeah.
[49:12] Area. That's, yeah.
[49:15] Was there ever a per,
[49:20] how do I say this there, there needs to be,
[49:24] well not there needs to be,
[49:26] but can you see
[49:31] a healing, a ceremony of some type
[49:37] to release the spirits?
[49:39] Yeah. To say it's okay.
[49:45] I know when my brother passed, I had him,
[49:47] he was in hospice at my house until he passed.
[49:51] And sometimes he would be in such pain
[49:55] that he would just scream and I would just release.
[49:58] I just wish he could just relax. God just let go.
[50:03] And finally he did. And it was so beautiful.
[50:08] All of the family had come up.
[50:10] My son from, from southern Illinois, my nephews, his, his,
[50:15] the, the woman that he really loved, he had his son by
[50:19] and he was there, my son was there
[50:21] and all of the family was just around him.
[50:25] And, and he, you could tell by the look on his face
[50:28] that he had his peace, he had come,
[50:31] Had come. Yeah,
[50:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[50:33] And his soul was ready
[50:34] and that night he made his transition.
[50:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[50:39] Yeah.
[50:40] That peace. And I think like that's something
[50:42] I know when my grand, I was very close with my grandma
[50:45] and grandpa o Brian, my dad's parents
[50:49] and my grandma.
[50:50] My grandpa passed first
[50:52] and my grandma had Alzheimer's really bad.
[50:55] But I came back, I was living in Florida
[50:57] and I was doing her hair and makeup for the funeral.
[50:59] And she became lucid.
[51:02] She looked at me and all
[51:03] of a sudden like knew why I was doing her hair
[51:05] and her makeup and everything, and gave me a look
[51:08] and, and had sadness.
[51:10] And it was that one second our
[51:11] eyes met in the mirror, right.
[51:12] 'cause I'm standing. Yeah.
[51:14] And, and then just like that she was gone again.
[51:16] And a jovial child.
[51:18] She was a very happy person with Alzheimer's.
[51:20] But it was like that, it was like that touch
[51:24] of reality right there.
[51:25] And when my grandfather was passing away, he said,
[51:29] tell Katie not to worry about things.
[51:32] It will be okay. And at the time I was living in Florida,
[51:34] I had, you know, some things like young twenties as you do.
[51:38] And that just message, just as he was passing away to know
[51:41] that and, and that little Remi like just even talking about
[51:44] it right now, it's been so long since I thought about that,
[51:46] you know, but the comfort, yes.
[51:48] That brings the eye contact I got with my grandma.
[51:51] That was lucid at that point.
[51:53] That's the stuff I think you just, you take with you
[51:56] and you have to remind yourself. Yeah.
[51:58] Connection. Connection.
[52:00] We were talking about connections
[52:03] and you guys were talking about, we have a few minutes left,
[52:05] but I want to get to the importance
[52:08] of human connection.
[52:11] Our children are losing that
[52:14] with probably not your children. Oh they are.
[52:17] They're in there with cell
[52:18] Phones online.
[52:23] The human connection.
[52:25] You might have some, but it's just not as important.
[52:28] You guys were just connecting in New York,
[52:35] That boy did we connect. I can see
[52:38] That there were memories.
[52:40] You guys just looked at each other
[52:41] and I saw mom is just flashing between you.
[52:44] I mean, what Was that like?
[52:46] I think when you're, especially this age
[52:49] and you're middle aged, not you yet,
[52:51] but you hang out with the Middle Ages
[52:53] and you can find a core group that you're able
[52:56] to leave town with.
[52:58] You know, it's one thing going to dinners
[52:59] and doing things here, but be with someone four to five days
[53:04] and still belly laugh on the last day as you're flying home.
[53:09] That is something that you need to cherish.
[53:10] And those are the friendships that you invest in.
[53:13] And when I say like New York also,
[53:16] we have our very own travel agent.
[53:18] I mean we're like, Topher, we're going to New York.
[53:20] And he is like, okay, big B,
[53:22] he had everything like planned out, done and done.
[53:26] We have to show up. He booked our shows.
[53:28] He's, he's wonderful. I mean that's why we break.
[53:30] No, I'm just kidding. But, but I mean, it just is,
[53:35] and again, it's like a family thing, you know, without
[53:38] the trauma of the family, without the drama.
[53:40] Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[53:42] Yeah.
[53:43] Wonderful. We went to see, I saw nine shows when
[53:46] We were there.
[53:47] Nine shows How many days?
[53:48] How many days? We were there for four or five nights.
[53:51] Thursday ending up
[53:52] through Tuesday because we had to. Yeah,
[53:54] We were were there during Snowmageddon. Oh
[53:56] Boy. Yeah. That was fun.
[53:57] Or the storm of the century. Storm
[53:59] Of the century.
[54:00] We saw rag time when we were there.
[54:02] We saw, which was phenomenal.
[54:04] And then we did see the Phantoms masquerade.
[54:07] And if you have not heard of this,
[54:09] it is an immersive phantom
[54:11] and it is the most incredible thing I've ever seen.
[54:13] Oh my God. So much so We went again. We saw it twice
[54:16] The most in incredible.
[54:19] I gotta go to New York. Here's the thing.
[54:21] Tell every single everything.
[54:23] Yeah, but have, I mean, when you, here's the thing
[54:25] with immersion theater,
[54:26] because we're on stage, we get immersed.
[54:28] So, so we've, we've done a
[54:29] show, we've done costume, you know.
[54:30] Yeah. Being on stage. But when you go watch a
[54:33] show and you watch it, you're great.
[54:34] This brought you into the show. You were part of the show.
[54:39] In fact, they would hand you props.
[54:41] They would hand you held onto Christine's dress.
[54:44] At one point, Ashley, our friend, got taken
[54:47] to the other room, into the phantom's bedroom
[54:50] and seated next to his bed.
[54:52] Like it was so intimate. You're wearing masks. Oh my gosh.
[54:55] Yeah. And you're looking around
[54:57] And there's a dress code. So
[54:58] Like there's a dress code.
[54:59] Yeah. I, if you get the opportunity,
[55:01] I'm gonna tell everybody, if you have the
[55:02] opportunity, go see it.
[55:04] Okay. Roddy. Yeah. My God. That was, yeah. It was amazing.
[55:07] And then Hades Town. That
[55:09] Was very good.
[55:10] I saw Hades Town here,
[55:11] but I can imagine. I can only imagine.
[55:13] I mean, there's no per, oh my God. Let's see.
[55:18] Yeah, that's what I, who said Persephone again?
[55:20] I'm telling Marvinetta.
[55:21] Oh, she'd be phenomenal.
[55:22] Oh, she'd be a phenomenal vicious Hermes as well.
[55:25] Oh my gosh. Let's, Anthony,
[55:27] let's do Hades tone. Oh my God. Don't
[55:29] Tell Anthony.
[55:30] Anthony.
[55:31] Okay. Stop. Marvinetta. I'm gonna be
[55:35] Horrible because Haiti, when I saw Hayestown here,
[55:38] just the traveling show. I was like,
[55:40] That, that music, oh, that's that store.
[55:44] I cleaned the house to that music.
[55:45] When the chant comes on, I'm like, okay, let's go. You know?
[55:49] I, I mean, it is beautiful.
[55:50] So, yeah, you got so that in New York we did.
[55:53] Well, there's a story. Okay. What a surprise. Yes.
[55:56] So we realized that we had to cancel our flight.
[55:59] 'cause Delta was basically like, this is Saturday.
[56:02] This storm is coming
[56:03] Sunday, all flights are gonna be canceled.
[56:04] So we decided to cancel our hotel, had our same rooms.
[56:07] It was, it worked out again, you know,
[56:09] just Synchron. We'll take it
[56:11] Ity. That's right.
[56:13] So toasts like, okay. Should we book another show?
[56:16] I hadn't seen Book A Mormon
[56:17] and Ashley hasn't seen Book A Mormon.
[56:19] Yep. Amy. And you did. Yep.
[56:21] And we got Book A Mormon tickets. So we go, we show up.
[56:24] There's a line like, this is weird.
[56:27] 20 minutes before the curtain, we're like,
[56:28] this is weird. Show
[56:30] Canceled minutes.
[56:31] Because all these shows are canceling, show canceled.
[56:33] We look, here's another serendipitous. Yeah.
[56:35] We look across the street.
[56:36] There's Haiti Town, Haiti's Town Theater.
[56:39] I had literally just said to Amy the night
[56:41] before, I wish you could, it's such an experience.
[56:45] I looked, now Boca Mormon starts at two Hades Town,
[56:49] which had available tickets started at three.
[56:52] So it's like, we ended up going to Hades Town,
[56:56] the most amazing experience.
[56:58] Get outta Haes, Hades town.
[56:59] Topher bought us and Juliet tickets for Christmas.
[57:03] And Juliet gets canceled.
[57:05] I was so sad. So
[57:06] I said, what are the chances
[57:08] that they would mark down the phantom tickets?
[57:10] 'cause it's a steeper one. Yeah.
[57:12] So I go on, they were marked down a tad.
[57:13] Yeah, they were the
[57:14] Christmas and I, and they were still having shows.
[57:15] Everything else is canceled. Everything is canceled.
[57:18] I said, let's you think we can do it now.
[57:20] We had to run back, change into our either black, silver
[57:23] or white, put our masks on.
[57:25] We went a second time,
[57:26] but it was just like one
[57:27] of those moments when something closes, another
[57:30] Door opens. Let's go.
[57:31] Oh, let let, Yeah. Oh, wait, okay.
[57:34] I have, I have less than three minutes.
[57:35] I know what is on the horizon.
[57:41] You can't talk about it. No, no, no, no, no.
[57:43] Not for this today. Oh, for you personally.
[57:46] What is on your horizon? What's your moonshot?
[57:50] Hmm. More travel.
[57:55] Done and done. Where you wanna go?
[57:57] What's, what's your dream location?
[57:59] Oh, I would love to see Japan.
[58:02] I'd also like to go to Vietnam.
[58:04] Mm Yeah. To see Vietnam. Yes.
[58:09] Yeah. Nice, Nice. Egypt as well. But it's not safe.
[58:12] But I would love to go to Egypt as well.
[58:16] Things are changing. This is true.
[58:18] Things are changing. This is true.
[58:20] So, cool, cool, cool.
[58:22] And do you see yourself still being at the Civic?
[58:24] Maybe being the Ed one day
[58:26] Executive director would be very cool.
[58:28] I actually would like to be the artistic director
[58:31] If I Being honest.
[58:34] But Anthony's not going anywhere,
[58:36] so I gotta wait a little bit.
[58:37] No kidding. You'll never know.
[58:39] He'll be back on Broadway in Sunday. He'll,
[58:42] He'll be on Broadway when He'll be
[58:44] directing on Broadway soon.
[58:46] Yeah. Oh boy. Moonshot speed.
[58:49] Army. Travel, travel. Travel.
[58:51] I'm actually, I have a great trip coming up.
[58:54] I'm going to Marrakesh with two of my besties.
[58:57] One of my besties is turning 50.
[58:59] And this is what she wanted to do. Yeah.
[59:01] So we're gonna go to Marrakesh.
[59:03] We're gonna do spend one night in Paris, fly to Marakesh,
[59:06] and then tag back in Paris and fly home.
[59:08] So I'm excited for that one.
[59:09] And then Topher, Oakley
[59:12] and I have a big trip coming up in July.
[59:15] So we're gonna fly to London first.
[59:17] Stay about five days in London.
[59:19] Go see some Joe's. Go see. Oh yes. Paddington.
[59:23] I mean, I'll see just for you. Well, you're gonna he, yeah.
[59:25] No, nothing like theater in London.
[59:27] Oh, west End and the west Side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
[59:29] The tickets are cheaper.
[59:30] America. We got some issues.
[59:32] Yeah. The houses are really nice. They are small into get
[59:36] The AC pumping.
[59:37] No, but, and then we are,
[59:40] and then we're gonna do Disneyland.
[59:42] Paris and Paris. We're gonna do Bastille Day in Paris.
[59:45] So my best friend was born in France.
[59:47] She's the one that lives in Miami. Yeah.
[59:49] I have a couple of best friends. You know everyone. Yeah.
[59:51] But she will be in Paris the same time we're there too.
[59:53] So it's just like, yeah. Again, we're staying in
[59:56] A part of a castle or something.
[59:59] It's like insane. Yeah. Like it's just gonna
[1:00:01] Be Love it, love it, love it.
[1:00:03] Yeah. I have to have a conversation with you after.
[1:00:04] 'cause I'm traveling a lot. And so yes.
[1:00:08] This has been an incredible show.
[1:00:12] I enjoyed every minute of hearing your stories.
[1:00:17] Thank you so much for just opening,
[1:00:22] being authentic, sharing,
[1:00:25] going there wherever I wanted to go.
[1:00:28] Having fun.
[1:00:29] Reminding me of the magic, not only
[1:00:31] of theater, but the magic.
[1:00:33] The magic of life being present in the moment, being open
[1:00:38] to whatever.
[1:00:40] And just, I like being a blank sheet of paper
[1:00:43] and just letting the experience fill it up.
[1:00:45] Yes. Thank you for being who you are,
[1:00:48] and thank you for tuning in.
[1:00:51] Remember, get to know somebody's story and share your story.
[1:00:56] The good, the bad there is no bad. It's all good.
[1:01:00] Till next time, all stories matter. Bye-bye.
[1:01:07] Programming on public media network is made possible
[1:01:10] thanks to our community partners, including the city
[1:01:13] of Kalamazoo, city of Parchment, Comstock Township,
[1:01:17] Kalamazoo Township, and Omo Township.