[0:00] the boardroom are streamed live and
recorded in accordance with the county's
[0:03] live stream and publishing recordings
policy which can be viewed on the
[0:08] county's website. Your attendance
constitutes your consent to audio,
[0:13] visual streaming and/or recording and to
permit the county to broadcast your
[0:18] name, voice, image, contact to a broader
audience.
[0:24] Will the clerk please call the role?
>> Mr. Van Beek.
[0:30] » He is going to be here. Uh, tardy. He
had an issue that come up this morning,
[0:34] but he uh got it handled.
>> Okay. Commissioner Dia
[0:37] » here.
>> Commissioner Lovers
[0:39] » here.
>> Commissioner Boutman
[0:40] » here.
>> Commissioner Dugan
[0:42] » here.
>> This morning opening prayer will be held
[0:45] by Commissioner Mark D. Young followed
by the pledge of allegiance. Please
[0:49] stand.
[0:52] » Pray. Well Lord and heavenly father, we
thank you once again for another day and
[0:58] thank you for the the rain that we need
once again. Uh just ask for your
[1:04] continued blessing on our crops and as
we near our harvest season. Yeah. Ask
[1:11] Lord that you grant extra prayers and
mercy to uh families of past employees
[1:17] that have uh passed recently, especially
the family of Sam Dystra and uh Chris
[1:23] Jurgus. Raise them up to Lord and just
guide us as we deliberate on issues for
[1:30] the citizens of Alagan County today. Be
with us all as we travel home. Keep us
[1:36] safe. Guide us. Jesus name we pray.
[1:42] I pledge to the flag of the United
States of America and to the republic
[1:48] for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and
[1:54] justice for all.
[2:04] » This morning we have no public hearings.
So that brings us down to approval of
[2:08] the minutes for August 13, 2026. Ensure
you've all looked at those. Is there any
[2:13] additions, corrections? If not, I'll
take a motion.
[2:17] » Commissioner Lovers.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move we approve
[2:20] the minutes of August 13, 2026.
>> Is there a second?
[2:23] » Second.
>> Commissioner Dugan seconds. Motion and a
[2:27] second to approve the August 13 minutes.
Is there any discussion?
[2:33] Seeing none, all those in favor of
approval of those minutes, please say
[2:37] yes.
>> Yes.
[2:38] » Opposed. Those minutes are approved.
Next, it brings us down to public
[2:44] participation. I see we have a pretty
good uh crowd this morning. Um, who
[2:49] would like to go first for public
participation?
[2:54] » Please step up to the podium and uh
state your name and local of residence.
[2:58] And you have five minutes.
>> Good right here. That's uh if you would
[3:04] um we can move that maybe a little bit
closer to the mic so you can so because
[3:10] we're we're live streaming as well and
that way I can kind of be picked up your
[3:14] voice.
[3:20] » So uh my name is Eric Bane. I'm at 3245
Lone Oak Drive in Wayland Township. And
[3:28] uh
I am a concerned citizen and engineer.
[3:32] Um we have Jennifer Antel um the mayor
of Whan project manager at West Michigan
[3:39] Trails and Katherine Getty the Barry
County Commissioner for District 2 here
[3:43] to help support me. Um we are here today
to urge Aligan County's board of
[3:47] commissioners to consider holding the
easement for the yettobe constructed
[3:51] trail system you should see shown in
yellow on the board behind me. Um, the
[3:57] plan trail spans a total distance of
roughly four miles and would safely
[4:01] connect multiple communities while
promoting outdoor activities such as
[4:04] walking, running, and biking in an area
of Alagan County that lacks access to
[4:09] non-motorized trails. This route has
been carefully chosen to meet all of the
[4:14] following criteria.
Um, they allow for dual use of the land
[4:18] that is being occupied by the solar
panel project for the next 30 years. uh
[4:23] serve as a connection to the greater
MDOT uh state of Michigan Grand Regional
[4:28] Plan at 136th Avenue to its north here.
Um serve as connection to the Greater
[4:36] Yankee Springs Trail System to the
southeast
[4:39] would be here.
Um and it cannot infringe upon Apex
[4:44] Clean Energy Solar Farm project area.
Cannot infringe upon existing power line
[4:48] infrastructure or function. um and
prioritizes land owner route
[4:53] preferences.
Um there is so much going for this
[4:57] project. Um we have a commitment from
the farmers that own the land to realize
[5:02] the trail system represented by this
signature sheet.
[5:09] a commitment from the power line
easement holders
[5:14] ITC and consumers to fully evaluate a
non form or a formal non-interference
[5:19] request. Uh we have condition S in the
Wayland Township special land use permit
[5:25] approval that allows for the inclusion
of a trail system within the solar farms
[5:28] project site plan to be considered a
minor change.
[5:33] A verbal commitment from Apex Energy to
fund the construction of the trails
[5:37] pending an internal study. A verbal
commitment from Apex Clean Energy to
[5:42] fund the trail maintenance pending an
internal study. All we need is a
[5:47] government unit to step up and own the
easement for the trail. Algen County
[5:51] Parks and Recreation Entity owns and
maintains eight parks and 55 miles of
[5:55] pedestrian trails.
Um, ranging in size from about 4 acres
[6:01] all the way up to 320 acres. In our
correspondence with Alagan County thus
[6:05] far, you have shared with us that the
trail system aligns with all your key
[6:11] objectives. Wayan Township ownership is
not an option, and I would be happy to
[6:15] explain why that is the case, but most
importantly, the timeline. I know that
[6:20] projects of this size typically take
decades to complete, often requiring
[6:24] hundreds, if not thousands of
conversations, public hearings, and
[6:27] funding applications, but this project
is not that.
[6:31] Apex plans move at a break neck pace,
starting construction in spring of 2027
[6:36] and finishing in late fall of 2028.
There's a rare opportunity to secure a
[6:41] public asset at zero cost to the
taxpayers and all we and we need to
[6:45] seize it. You might ask yourself, how is
this possible? The answer is simple.
[6:50] Most of the construction obtain
most of the construction costs required
[6:55] to obtain such a trail system come from
its construction. Since Apex Clean
[7:00] Energy will already be in the area with
all the necessary equipment, personnel,
[7:04] and materials, the trails become a
relatively low additional cost for them.
[7:08] All we are asking from you today is to
consider holding the easement for the
[7:12] trail. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[7:21] Good morning.
>> Good morning. Uh, as Eric said, my name
[7:24] is Jennifer Antel. I am both the mayor
of the city of Whan in Alagen County,
[7:29] but today I'm representing West Michigan
Trails. We're a nonprofit
[7:33] um in West Michigan covering 18 counties
and we deal with all the non-motorized
[7:39] multi-use trails in West Michigan
working to get them connected and making
[7:43] a unified network.
And um as Eric said, I we know we
[7:49] understand this is very unusual to have
this happening at such a a fast pace.
[7:54] And I use the example of the inner urban
trail that we have been working on for
[7:58] 21 years to connect um Kent County to
Kazoo County on the western or excuse me
[8:07] the eastern edge of Alagan County
through Wayen Township and the old inner
[8:11] urban railway. You know, we've been
working on that for 21 years. We've
[8:14] spent through the municipalities, West
Michigan Trails, $70,000 studying it,
[8:20] doing pre-engineering, and we still
don't have any trail built. I'm
[8:23] optimistic in the next five years we
will, but it usually is a very long
[8:27] process and can cost millions of
dollars, you know, up to a million
[8:31] dollars a mile to build a trail. In
Alagan County, we have a very unique
[8:35] situation where someone else owns the
property is willing to give the easement
[8:40] to build the trail. they will design it,
they will build it, and they will even
[8:45] pay for the maintenance of it for the
next 30 years. Uh we just need somebody
[8:49] to hold that lease um in order to do it.
So, I urge you to to thoughtfully
[8:55] consider it. Um this is an opportunity
that comes around literally once in a
[8:59] millennium, and I understand it's a big
ask. It's a lot in a short amount of
[9:04] time. uh but we just ask that you
consider and maybe um enter into
[9:09] conversation with us about how this
could happen. Thank you so much for your
[9:13] time.
[9:21] » My name is Klfeld. I'm a senior uh de
development manager with Apex Clean
[9:25] Energy working on the Blazing Star Solar
Project. Uh I just want to clarify a few
[9:30] items. Uh thus far the conversation from
Apex's side has been around the idea of
[9:34] a trail system in and around our
proposed solar project. Apex does not
[9:39] develop nor construct trails. We have
committed to working with our
[9:42] construction partner and if there are
any areas that we can work together on
[9:47] this trail idea. Uh to that end, we have
not committed to funding a trail. We
[9:52] have have a community grant program. We
have done things of this nature
[9:56] previously, but we have not committed to
fully funding a trail because we do not
[10:00] know what this trail is going to be. Is
this an impervious surface? Is this a
[10:05] gravel trail? There are many things we
do not understand yet. To our
[10:09] understanding, there's a letter of
intent signed by the land owners, but
[10:12] there is no trail easements currently
signed by the land owners. We do not
[10:16] hold trail easements inside of our solar
ements. We legally do not have the
[10:21] ability to construct a trail on their
property under our agreement that allows
[10:26] us to construct the solar facility. We
have also not agreed to maintain the
[10:30] trail. Specifically, we are not
interested in maintaining a trail
[10:34] because we do not do trail maintenance.
We do not have the expertise in
[10:38] maintaining the trail and without
understanding what exactly the trail is,
[10:42] we don't know what type of maintenance
is required for a trail of that nature.
[10:46] So again, we are happy to participate in
this conversation. We are happy to be a
[10:51] partner in this trail, but I just want
to make that clear from Apex's
[10:54] standpoint. Thank you for your time.
>> Thank you.
[11:00] » Hello, my name is Karly Haka and I am
the director of the Eversol
[11:05] Environmental Education Center in
Wayland. Um, and if you're not familiar
[11:08] with Eversol, it is a 238 acre property
that's actually owned by the Lancing
[11:15] School District. It was donated um by
the Olds family in the 60s and we've
[11:21] been bringing students to um Wayland at
the Eversol Center for over 50 years
[11:27] providing environmental education,
stewardship, and outdoor recreation. and
[11:32] I'm here in support of the trail idea as
well as potential partners. Um, I have
[11:39] access to the students of the Lancing
School District. We have over 6,000
[11:43] students come every year for field
trips. Um, they do overnights. We do
[11:49] stewardship projects. So, we could
support the force of maintaining the
[11:54] trail. Um, and then give students some
real world job experience and
[11:59] stewardship experience. Um the proposed
bike path has an additional significant
[12:05] benefit because it would potentially
terminate at the Eversaw Center. Um
[12:11] for these students, many of whom come
from an urban environment, the journey
[12:15] to Eversol represents an opportunity to
experience forests, wetlands, prairies,
[12:20] waterways, and other natural
environments that may not be readily
[12:23] accessible in their everyday lives. A
lot of times I have students come to me
[12:28] from Lancing and it's their first time
that they've ever taken a walk in the
[12:32] woods. I had a conversation with the
high school student the other day. Um
[12:37] she said to me as I was explaining the
different types of trees and their needs
[12:42] on our hike. She said, "I didn't know
there were other kinds of trees. I
[12:46] thought a tree was just a tree." And she
was in 10th grade.
[12:51] So this experience for these students is
it can be lifechanging. We have students
[12:57] who come to the Eversol Center and then
decide that they want to go into forest
[13:01] management. Um, so I see this trail as
an opportunity for an extension of the
[13:07] outdoor classroom and also a bridge
between rural communities and urban
[13:13] communities and an intersection between
those two communities and an
[13:17] understanding can happen in that
experience. Um,
[13:23] the path could become an extension of
Eversol's outdoor classroom, and
[13:27] students could use it to study ecology
and biodiversity by observing changes in
[13:31] habitats along the route, wersheds, and
water quality by investigating streams,
[13:36] wetlands, drainage patterns, and runoff.
Um, we're already working to explain
[13:42] what the impacts of the human impact and
farming around our property. um and
[13:47] doing lots of ecological study and field
study with those students, partnering
[13:50] with other universities.
Um geology and glacial history through
[13:55] obser observations of the rural
landscape. We've taken students to the
[13:59] Yankee Springs area to show them what a
kettle lake is and the glacial impacts
[14:04] of that and then they have a realworld
experience that they look at a textbook
[14:08] and they can put it together from their
hike. Um, it's also really important for
[14:14] physical and mental wellness. Um,
incorporating walking, biking, and
[14:19] outdoor movement into educational
experiences and experiences for the
[14:23] community. Um, and like I said,
environmental stewardship by observing,
[14:28] documenting, and caring for the
landscape surrounding the trail. Um,
[14:32] Lansing School District already
identifies Eversol as a place where
[14:35] students engage in environmental
education, outdoor recreation, and
[14:38] stewardship. Its mission is to empower
people to connect with nature through
[14:42] those experiences. A community bike path
connecting directly to the center would
[14:47] strengthen that mission by creating
another safe avenue for people to reach
[14:51] and experience the landscape. There is
also an important equity argument. For
[14:56] many Lancing students, access to large
natural areas requires transportation.
[15:01] Eversol exists specifically to help
overcome that barrier by bringing
[15:05] students to a place where they can
experience nature through hands-on
[15:08] learning. A safe pedestrian and bicycle
connection would further expand access
[15:13] to this unique educational resource. The
value of that access goes beyond science
[15:18] and education. Physical activity can
reduce feelings of anxiety, improve
[15:23] sleep, support brain health, and reduce
the risk of depression. Creating safe
[15:27] places for young people to walk, bike,
explore, and spend time outdoors
[15:31] therefore supports both physical and
health physical health and mental
[15:34] well-being. The proposed path could give
students another way to experience what
[15:39] Eversol already strives to provide. A
chance to step away from the classroom,
[15:43] move their bodies, connect with nature,
challenge themselves, and experience a
[15:48] sense of discovery.
The strongest vision for this project is
[15:52] not just simply a bike path that happens
to end at Eversaw. It is a connection
[15:56] between the local community, Lancing
students, outdoor recreation, education,
[16:00] and the natural landscape. Residents
gain a safe place to walk and bike.
[16:04] Families gain a destination for outdoor
recreation. Visitors gain another way to
[16:08] experience the area. And more than 6,000
Lancing students each year gain a
[16:12] potential extension of their outdoor
classroom. The path can serve as a
[16:16] physical connection between two
communities that might otherwise have
[16:19] little interaction. The rural
communities surrounding Eversaw and the
[16:23] urban students traveling from Lancing to
experience it. Building the path would
[16:27] therefore be an investment not only in
transportation but in health, education,
[16:32] environmental literacy, youth
development, and community connection.
[16:35] When a community builds infrastructure
that helps people move, learn, connect,
[16:40] and spend time outdoors, it is investing
in the kind of community where people
[16:44] can thrive. Thank you.
[16:50] » Anyone else? Public participation
>> come out from behind.
[16:54] » Good morning. the giant poster. So, my
name is Katherine Getty. I am a county
[16:59] commissioner from district 2 in uh Barry
County. So, just across the county line,
[17:06] um my district includes part of Yankee
Springs um and village of Mville and
[17:11] part of Thorn Township. So, that
northwest quadrant, a quickly growing um
[17:16] area in the state um coming um
development pressure from Grand Rapids.
[17:21] So, we are seeing a lot of population
growth in the area in Yankee Springs.
[17:26] We're working um on a trail project
along M179. If you can imagine where the
[17:32] McDonald's is um at Patterson and 179,
we want to create a safe um pedestrian
[17:40] non-motorized trail from that corner to
the state park um where we have a lot of
[17:45] visitors and it will allow access to our
um business corridor. um in a lot of
[17:51] those residential areas. Um and when
this opportunity when I heard about this
[17:56] opportunity um I I thought what a what a
incredible um missing piece of the
[18:02] puzzle that we didn't know we were
looking for. Um just Kitty Corner to
[18:07] McDonald's is where the trail head could
possibly be for this project. So, um, a
[18:13] great opportunity for us to partner, um,
between Alligan and Barry, um, serve a a
[18:20] real population center, um, provide
access for Alligen County residents, um,
[18:27] to another, um, whole system of of
trails. Um, and then, um, just to talk
[18:33] about trails for a minute, we we
obviously we we're still working on what
[18:38] this trail system could look like. Is it
paved? how wide does it um you know
[18:43] there's a lot of engineering and design
that goes through but but for this
[18:47] project um we we have an unprecedented
in in my experience of working on trails
[18:53] for over 25 years we have um the farmers
the property owners that where the solar
[19:00] panels are going to be placed um I
talked to Paul letting go last week he
[19:05] is very in favor of this in fact he said
he he came up with this idea he
[19:10] suggested did trails as part of this
solar project um from the beginning.
[19:15] It's unique in that it's not publicly
owned, right? So, we have um a number of
[19:20] um property owners that have um leased
their property for 30 years from this
[19:26] solar project, but they also see that
there's a potential for this great
[19:31] community benefit um in our region. Um,
we have lots of hiking trails in Yankee
[19:37] Springs, but we have very little areas
that are safe for people with any kind
[19:43] of mobility device, um, strollers,
anything, you know, that, um, where they
[19:49] need, um, a flat, um, solid surface of
some kind. I'm not saying paved
[19:56] necessarily, but some kind of surface
like like the Cal Haven has been able to
[20:00] develop um and is enjoyed by thousands
and thousands of people. Uh so um
[20:07] obviously we have some some things to
work out. Our biggest obstacle right now
[20:12] is to find a government entity that's
willing to say we'll hold that easement.
[20:18] we'll we'll be willing to to enter into
these conversations to say what will
[20:23] that look like? Um you obviously in
Alagan County own public parks and
[20:30] public spaces. So, you know, you have
that um that experience that those you
[20:37] know, insurance coverage. You know, I'm
dealing with financial pressures in
[20:41] Barry County as well. Um, I understand
that we all need to keep that at the
[20:47] forefront in our decision making, but we
also need to think about what
[20:51] opportunities are there to make this a
win-win situation where we um can take
[20:58] advantage of something that we didn't
even know was coming. Um, this is it is
[21:03] fast-paced. Um, I applaud Eric Bane and
his efforts um to really ambassador this
[21:11] project, but all we need is really a
commitment to say we'll enter. Let's
[21:17] let's have some discussions. Let's see
how we can make this a win-win without a
[21:21] huge financial obligation on behalf of
Alagan County. How can we work with
[21:27] Apex, the property owners, Eversol
Center, and some other partners? I mean,
[21:33] West Michigan Trails has has been a
great partner to help us figure this
[21:37] out, but how can we work together to
bring this resource um to Alagan County
[21:42] that that doesn't really have a lot of
that kind of um access? So, thank you
[21:48] for your time.
>> Thank you. Thank you.
[21:59] being hot live at 3381 2nd Street. This
trail will go across one two sides of my
[22:07] property. And I'm also going to speak on
behalf of my brother that's deaf because
[22:12] I didn't know this meeting was coming up
till last week. I could demand you have
[22:17] an interpreter here for him, but it's
not possible. So, I'm going to speak
[22:22] part on his behalf, too, because this
trail goes around two sides of his
[22:26] property.
I just took a rough number of say 100
[22:32] people use this trail a week.
If you take that times 52 weeks, that's
[22:38] 5,200 people that would be walking
beside my property,
[22:44] beside his property, and everybody
else's.
[22:49] 5 years ups to 26,000.
10 years, 52,000.
[22:56] 20 years, 104,000.
30 30 years 156,000 people will have
[23:04] walked possibly past my property.
I'm concerned not about necessarily the
[23:11] good people that use the trail. I'm
concerned about the bottom quarter third
[23:18] and those people are going to be ones
that are looking to rob
[23:24] possibly abduct kids along there.
rapers,
[23:29] poachers, and possibly murderers.
And the reason I'm bringing that up, my
[23:35] brother that's deaf is physically
handicapped also. His house has been
[23:40] robbed three times in the last 40 years.
The last one was as soon as 2020.
[23:50] I lived with him during first robbery.
That's a hell of a feeling when you walk
[23:55] into your house and somebody's been in
there stolen your stuff.
[24:00] It's not a good feeling. And it comes
back every time he's been robbed.
[24:05] The second time they rob him, they come
home, the dog's eyeball is hanging out
[24:11] of its head. These people don't care
what they do to your house, your
[24:15] property, nothing else.
My house has been robbed once.
[24:22] So, I've been a victim twice. He's been
a victim three times.
[24:28] I'm not thrilled about all these people
passing by my property. They trespass on
[24:33] it and get hurt, I get sued. Pretty
soon, the insurance company's going to
[24:38] drop. They rob my house twice in two
years, I could only make one claim
[24:44] because they'll drop me. So, that means
I eat the expense of replacing my stuff.
[24:50] That's not fair to me or anybody else
that lives on that trail.
[24:55] Not saying all these people are bad, but
those kind of people are going to be out
[25:00] there and on the trail. And not one of
these people here has said one thing
[25:04] about approaching the property owners
that are beside it.
[25:13] Talk about insurance. Their answer is
we'll put up a fence.
[25:17] There's no money tree growing in my
yard. I can't afford to put up a eight
[25:22] 10 foot fence around my property because
I'd have to go around all four sides.
[25:27] Otherwise, they're just going to walk
around the corner.
[25:32] So now I got to put up probably an
expensive camera system. That's more
[25:38] money out of my pocket. I'll have to pay
it for my brother cuz he can't afford
[25:42] it.
[25:45] We're going to end up living in our
homes in a cave because we're going to
[25:49] have to have our shades drawn,
curtains pulled so that people aren't
[25:55] watching and looking into our houses to
see what's in there.
[26:01] That doesn't please me at all. I don't
care to be out in my yard having people
[26:06] stare at me while they walk. I don't
have any idea what their intentions are.
[26:14] I can't even sit in my yard without them
watching me.
[26:19] My dogs going to be barking at these
people.
[26:23] Their dogs are loose while they're
walking. They take a dump in my yard and
[26:27] I got to put up no trespassing signs.
They going to come clean it up? Maybe,
[26:32] maybe not. But if I leave tools out
there, I'll bet they grow legs and
[26:37] disappear.
It's going to make it hard to sell my
[26:42] property.
cuz I'm not going to live out there
[26:45] forever.
[26:48] So, let's say I get a realer.
They drive in the driveway. Oh, didn't
[26:55] tell me there was a solar farm there.
Why does these people have all these
[26:59] cameras up? Is this a high crime area?
No, there's a walking trail there.
[27:05] » Anybody in their right mind?
>> You're close to your fiveminute limit if
[27:08] you wrap it up in 30 seconds, maybe.
Please.
[27:12] So, I'm just looking. It's all negative
for the people that live there. I want
[27:17] to know if this easement's going to be
paved. We can't even get our road
[27:22] kept up.
And how are you going to make your
[27:25] decision? How's it going to be made
public? How do I find out? Cuz I would
[27:30] appreciate you turn this down
because all it's doing is going to cost
[27:36] me money and I'm scared to death of all
those people that are going to be
[27:40] walking by.
And not one of these people have
[27:43] addressed that.
Thank you.
[27:58] » Good morning.
>> My name is Benjamin Atski. Right now I'm
[28:03] living on the Jackson farm at 3480
Patterson which is right here. The
[28:09] original trail that was proposed by
Apex, who didn't really know what they
[28:14] were looking at, had their trail going
right through the center of our
[28:17] property, which luckily they decided not
to do because we told them not to.
[28:23] But
I appreciate that the gentleman from
[28:26] Apex was here to say, you know, we don't
approve of this. Well, they do approve
[28:31] of it, but you know,
but they did say that they want they
[28:37] they approve of the idea, and I think
that's partially in support because they
[28:41] have to butter up their popular solar
panel farm here. Um, I wasn't sure if
[28:48] the lady from the upper saw center knew
that Jackson Lake is called Jackson.
[28:55] That's the reason you have it. I'm
pretty sure
[29:00] there
[29:07] » you're welcome.
There are plenty of trails in Barry
[29:11] County right next door for people to use
non-motorized
[29:17] and for flat trails for wheelchairs and
things. Those trails can be developed.
[29:21] There's plenty of already off-roading
trails through there that could be
[29:26] developed. And
just to support Jean's point,
[29:31] » Benjamin, if you would just uh address
the board of commissioners, not people.
[29:37] » All right. To support Jean's point, I've
been a paramedic for 25 years all across
[29:42] central Michigan from Detroit to
Holland. And I can tell you that these
[29:46] trails,
[29:51] they're highways for the homeless and
the mentally ill to get from place to
[29:56] place. They camp out there. When you're
on the trails using the trails, it's
[30:01] surrounded by trash, which is running up
against Je's property and everybody
[30:04] else's property. And just yesterday,
I picked up a paranoid psychotic who had
[30:11] been camping out on the trails
down by Martin.
[30:17] And those are the people that we want
walking Eugene's property
[30:24] or around these people. I don't even
know these people. I don't want them to
[30:28] have paranoid psychotics and homeless
people and trash on their property. They
[30:34] didn't move out here to the country to
live around trash.
[30:39] Speaking of obviously
that's all I have to say. Thank you.
[30:48] Anyone else at this time would like to
address the board of commissioners?
[30:58] Morning.
[31:14] » Good morning, commissioners. My name is
Melissa Brower and I'm the chair of the
[31:19] Alagan County Tourism Council. And I'd
like to briefly share the experience
[31:24] that we just had this year creating the
Taste of Alagan County postcard program
[31:30] and kind of like how that went. So it
was um you can see I'm passing out
[31:36] flyers right now from April to the end
of July. And at our last meeting last
[31:41] month, we had received 11 postcards. Two
were dropped off at the county building
[31:46] and nine were mailed in. And some of the
feedback that we got was super
[31:51] meaningful to the council with all the
work and effort that we put into it that
[31:57] um I just a couple I want to share with
you guys. I met a mother who said that
[32:03] taste of Alagen County postcard
promotion really made an impact on her
[32:07] and her son's relationship as he would
call her and say, "Hey mom, you want to
[32:11] go to a restaurant?" And they would go
and they would collect stamps. And so
[32:15] she just was thanking me and the council
for doing this promotion that actually
[32:20] improved her and her son's relationship
during the summer. Another person who
[32:25] received a $25 gift card in the drawing
that we had, she said that she had never
[32:31] been to the restaurant, the one that she
won the post the gift card for. And she
[32:36] was excited to go pick it up, try the
food, and then visit an attraction in
[32:40] the area which she had never been. So
that was kind of a cool experience.
[32:45] And then also other participating
restaurants were excited for the
[32:49] opportunity to have visibility with the
postcard promotion program. Also I
[32:55] wanted to talk about looking ahead. So
next year the tourism council is
[33:01] planning on doing another postcard
promotion. We're going to do five uh
[33:05] restaurants and five wineries and
breweries. So that way there's drinks
[33:08] and food and people can pick which five
they want to go to. Send it in. Same as
[33:13] this year. But then looking forward into
our five-year plan that we have um in
[33:18] 2028, we're looking at bringing in ice
cream shops and coffee shops in Alagan
[33:24] County to just help get people moving
around the county. Also, looking
[33:30] forward, the tourism council has a 10
$10,000 budget and we would like to make
[33:35] sure that the council has clear
oversight of how those funds are spent.
[33:40] We want to inform we want to be informed
of and have the opportunity to approve
[33:45] any spending from our tourism budget. We
would also like clarification regarding
[33:50] the heritage trail which was originally
started by the tourism council so there
[33:55] is clear understanding and
responsibility and funding. Finally, we
[34:00] would like to have a conversation about
whether the tourism council is currently
[34:04] housed in the best place within the
county structure to accomplish our
[34:09] mission. Uh we would like to strengthen
the tourism council and work together to
[34:13] promote Alagan County and its
businesses. Alagen County has so much to
[34:17] offer and we believe there is a
tremendous opportunity to bring more
[34:20] attention, visitors, and economic
activity to our communities. We would
[34:25] appreciate the opportunity to work with
the commissioners to clarify our budget,
[34:30] review our proposed bylaw changes, and
discuss how we can best structure the
[34:35] tourism council moving forward. And
we'll be working on updating our bylaws,
[34:39] and we will be presenting that to you in
the near future. So, thank you for your
[34:43] time and for support of tourism in Alen
County.
[34:47] » Thank you.
Anyone
[34:52] else in the boardroom at this time that
would like to address the board of
[34:55] commissioners?
Seeing none, Mr. Sedor, is anyone online
[35:01] seeking recognition at this time?
>> Not that seeking recognition, Mr. Chair.
[35:07] » Thank you,
>> Mr. Chair.
[35:10] » We'll post public participation. Um,
next is additional agenda items. Oh,
[35:15] excuse me, Mr. Administrator.
>> Yes. I just want um just wonder if it
[35:20] would be appropriate to just we had a
lot of people talk just to provide the
[35:25] the status so that there's no ongoing
expectations or or whatnot regarding the
[35:31] the topic of the trail.
>> I don't understand your question. What
[35:36] are you what is your out?
>> Well, I just I I think there's a lot of
[35:40] there could be presumption that there's
an action forthcoming from the board and
[35:44] uh I don't want to enter into the topic
of discussion itself, but I do want to
[35:48] clarify.
>> Well, we are at additional agenda items
[35:50] and I guess if nobody puts it on the
agenda, it's not going to be taken up
[35:54] today.
>> And that's that's basically what I
[35:56] wanted to echo other than the fact that
there was a response formally from the
[35:59] county that said we're not going to be
taking it up at this time. So I just
[36:03] wanted to echo I just wanted to
reiterate that and that unless there's a
[36:07] different direction from the board no
further action should be expected. Thank
[36:10] you Mr. P.
>> Yeah I So
[36:15] uh any additional agenda items?
[36:22] Seeing none that brings us down to
approval of the agenda as presented.
[36:26] Is [clears throat] there a motion?
Commissioner Benique.
[36:28] » Thank you Mr. Chair. I make a motion to
approve the agenda as presented.
[36:33] Have a motion by Commissioner Benvik to
approve agenda. Second by Commissioner
[36:36] Dugan.
Any discussion?
[36:42] Seeing none, all those in favor of the
agenda as presented, please say yes.
[36:46] » Yes.
>> Opposed.
[36:49] We have an agenda.
[36:53] Presentations this morning. We have an
informal session by prosecute attorney
[36:58] Mr. Far. Good morning.
>> Good morning.
[37:06] I am Michael Lar. I'm prosecutor. I live
in Alligan 128 Hill Street in Alagan.
[37:11] So, I've been a 30 35 year resident of
the city of Alagan.
[37:17] I appreciate [clears throat] the time
you guys take it to read the annual
[37:21] report. I assume you guys all received
it. Did you all receive it?
[37:25] » Okay. Um,
I would note that last year was
[37:29] difficult to do an annual report because
I was reporting on things that I didn't
[37:33] do. It was all the stuff that my
predecessor had done because it was for
[37:37] 2024 and I started in 2025. This year I
am uh pleased to present the annual
[37:44] report and pleased to let you guys know
what has been happening uh since I took
[37:48] office.
Um,
[37:52] it's interesting. I I wanted to share a
story with you. I've shared it with
[37:56] Commissioner Dugan and Commissioner
Lovers uh about an experience I had at
[38:00] the Prosecuting Attorneys Association of
Michigan just a week and a half ago, two
[38:04] weeks ago. I I was seated at a table
with two prosecutors that were in
[38:09] counties that had five and six
prosecuting attorneys. So, they were
[38:12] smaller than us. And in listening to
them over dinner, they uh were bemoning
[38:18] their fate and how they had uh a
situation with their commissioners where
[38:22] they were having difficulty getting
funding for anything. In fact, one of
[38:26] them said that we can't get any
payraises. We can't get any spec any
[38:30] additional uh people and they cut the
funding for our jail. And he went on to
[38:35] say that they had given that same board
of commissioners had given each inmate
[38:39] in the county jail a tablet for them to
use. uh all day long. And then one day
[38:46] the internet went out for two hours and
half the half of the inmates broke their
[38:51] tablets and some of them actually tried
to flush them down the toilets and
[38:55] within two weeks all the inmates had
tablets again. So So they were they were
[39:01] very distressed about their relationship
with their board of commissioners. And I
[39:05] have to say before I do anything else
that I appreciate that we have a board
[39:09] of commissioners that is pro law
enforcement and and is concerned about
[39:13] the sheriff's department and the local
police agencies and the prosecutor's
[39:17] office. I do appreciate that. So I want
to thank you for that just before we say
[39:21] anything else. And uh and I do feel that
that as a board you guys have been very
[39:27] supportive of law enforcement.
When I started in January of 2025, I
[39:32] came into an office that had uh they had
bought the Carpell system or or signed
[39:37] on to it. I guess we got it free for
certain number of years and we have to
[39:41] start paying for it in 2027.
But Carpell is a paperless system where
[39:47] you don't have paper files. But when I
got there, there was h they were doing
[39:52] half carpel and half paper. So they were
maintaining both. And even when I got
[39:57] there, uh, we were paying, uh, each of
the legal secretaries, legal
[40:03] specialists, a time and a half for at
least four hours a week, each one of
[40:07] them, because they were so far behind on
maintaining both the Carpel paperless
[40:12] system and the paper system they were
using. And you'll see that in the in the
[40:17] report that I did, I we had pictures of
the files that were laying everywhere.
[40:20] And if you had OCD at all, those
pictures would would make you drive you
[40:24] crazy. and and they were driving me
crazy because when when we first
[40:28] started, if you needed a file, sometimes
it would take 30 minutes for people to
[40:32] find the file. Then when you get the
file, you you look at it and there's
[40:36] handwritten notes. And the handwritten
notes are are supposed to be in uh
[40:40] chronological order, but they weren't
always in chronological order. There
[40:44] might be things in the corner and not
only that, some of the people uh their
[40:49] handwriting was illeible. So you really
you picked up a file and you could you
[40:53] did not know what was going on and it
was difficult to find. And then if you
[40:58] look at the files themselves, they would
have seven or eight different kind types
[41:03] of handwrite, which means that seven or
eight different attorneys had touched
[41:07] that file. And every time someone has to
take go to court with that file, they
[41:11] would have to try to to discern from the
filing of the paperwork what was going
[41:16] on and where that case was, which was
which made it very inefficient. So the
[41:22] first thing that we did is within six
weeks of getting there, we said we're
[41:25] going to go through the carpel paperless
system completely pull off the bandage
[41:30] and it's it's going to hurt for a while.
I'm glad to say now that the carol
[41:34] system is working tremendously well and
all the the paperwork all the paper that
[41:39] was everywhere is all gone. Our offices
are neat. All the notes are typewritten
[41:43] so you don't have any problem
understanding what somebody else said.
[41:47] So that that was one of the things that
really improved our efficiency. The
[41:52] other thing is when we got there, um, we
talked to the legal specialists and and
[41:57] the office and what they informed us of
is that one of the big problems was
[42:01] there was not a receptionist. There was
not a person to answer phones and so
[42:05] every day each of the legal specialists
would have to take turns and answering
[42:08] the phones and they were already doing
four hours of overtime each each week
[42:14] each of them. So we asked uh what we did
is we gave up an APA one position. We
[42:20] had a an open APA1 position when we
started uh that had been unfilled, but
[42:26] it was there for us to fill. And what
had been happening is we used the money
[42:31] that was going to fund that APA1
position to fund the overtime for the
[42:35] legal legal specialists. So that was
what was going on at that time. We
[42:40] looked at the situation. We said, if
we're going to do Carpel, what happens
[42:44] every time we get a piece of paper, we
have to scan it. There was one scanner
[42:48] in the office and the scanner was in the
corner. So every time someone had to
[42:53] take the something that they had to
scan, they had to get up off their desk,
[42:56] walk to the scanner, hopefully there
would be no one else there. Hopefully
[43:01] there wouldn't be a 400page document
printing, scan it, get back to their
[43:05] desk, and then do whatever they're going
to do. And that's multiplied by all 10
[43:10] legal, you know, eight legal assistants.
So we
[43:14] would took the u initiative and got
small scanners for each station. So now
[43:21] the scan they get something at their
desk they scan it right there. So again
[43:25] it was it made things more efficient.
And with the carpel system I'm pleased
[43:29] to say that when we got there when I got
there there was about a year and a half
[43:33] to twoyear backlog of cases that were
waiting around just sitting around. And
[43:39] now the backlog is gone. So we have cut
the entire backlog and so and and that's
[43:45] important in that there's a couple
things why that is important. The
[43:48] backlog also caused problems with this
the civil cases not just criminal cases
[43:54] because when there's a divorce case and
there's a criminal case set at the same
[43:58] time because courts set lots of cases at
the same time the criminal case always
[44:02] takes precedence.
So when I was in private practice,
[44:06] divorce cases were taking two years to
get to trial because there were so many
[44:10] criminal cases and your divorce case
kept getting adjourned and adjourned and
[44:14] adjourned and adjourned. And now that is
not happening. So the that not only have
[44:20] we resolved some of the criminal
backlog, it's also resolving the civil
[44:24] case backlog. And
in in the interior of the report, you'll
[44:29] see that we conducted I think 12 or 13
trials last year in circuit court. Uh in
[44:36] the previous two years to when when I
came in, there have been 36 criminal
[44:40] trials and 24 criminal trials in the
previous two years. Uh Chris Dulac gave
[44:46] keeps track of the you know how many
trials there are. and he had informed me
[44:49] that historically there are 13 12 to 13
uh civil circuit court trials, criminal
[44:55] trials each year. We are back to that
traditional you like the the number that
[45:00] normally happens. And I would also I
wanted to point out that that that saves
[45:06] the county money. If you have 36
criminal trials, you have to call in
[45:09] juries, you have to pay the jurors, you
have to pay the judges, the secretary,
[45:12] everyone involved with that. So, uh, I
do want to to to
[45:17] and I guess part of it is for me to let
you guys know that I'm serious about
[45:21] cutting costs for the county and and and
doing things that are reasonable. I'm
[45:26] not one of those guys who say, "I'm
going to ask for new positions each year
[45:30] simply because that's the budget game
that people play. We don't need a
[45:33] position. I'm not going to ask for it."
And uh and I do appreciate last year
[45:37] that you guys gave us a a new
investigator position because bodywn
[45:42] camera has been the bane of our
existence because our our district court
[45:46] judges will not let a preliminary exam
happen unless all the body warn camera
[45:50] has been turned over. And Commissioner
Belman got to talk to Chris and uh
[45:55] and he explained to Commissioner Belman
the problem that we have is in in a case
[46:00] that has four or five attorneys or four
or five police officers, they all have
[46:04] an hour or an hour and a half of bodywn
camera and all of that has to be looked
[46:09] at and all the lean information which it
protects individuals. You have to take
[46:14] that out and remove it. So, we were
tremendously that that was the biggest
[46:18] problem that we had at trying to get
caught up and by virtue of the fact that
[46:22] you guys approved that position, we are
now we're not caught up yet, but we're
[46:26] closer to being caught up and the delay
is a lot less. So, so that's part of why
[46:30] I'm saying that we we asked for things
that I think are going to help us be
[46:34] more efficient and resolve cases. Now
the other thing that I noticed that when
[46:39] we started
is that
[46:43] we
[46:47] we had
so many young attorneys. We had a lot of
[46:52] really young attorneys and when I came
into the office we had let three people
[46:58] we didn't renew their contracts. So we
brought in three people. We brought in
[47:02] the district court administrator Jessica
who had phenomenal legal uh experience.
[47:08] We brought in John Blair who is the
probate court registar. Both of them had
[47:13] been pre prosecutors previously and then
I brought in Holly Verie who had 30
[47:18] years of experience uh in family law. So
we brought in probably right at the
[47:24] start 50 or 60 years of experience. I
had 31 years of experience at that time.
[47:29] And then ultimately we brought in Dan
Norbeck who had used he used to be an
[47:33] Alagu County prosecutor. He was the
district court magistrate and he's come
[47:37] back. So we have we have brought in um a
lot of mature attorneys and in the in
[47:43] the attrition part of my report we have
lost four attorneys and the four
[47:49] attorneys we lost one had five years of
experience. The other three had about
[47:54] one to one and a half years of
experience. So those four leaving was
[47:58] about 9 years of combined experience.
Well, the people that we brought in
[48:02] would be Dan Norbec who had 15 to 20
years. Then we brought in Don uh Welkkey
[48:07] who is from Chicago and she has 25 plus
years of experience. So we have replaced
[48:12] those people with with mature uh and
experienced attorneys. And so what that
[48:16] has done in our office is created a
really good mix of of young attorneys
[48:21] and experienced attorneys. And now we're
using that mix to train the younger
[48:26] attorneys to become more and more
proficient. So it's it's a really good
[48:30] system. It's a really good setup right
now. I'm very pleased with it. Um I you
[48:35] know, one of the things I mentioned or I
I thought about mentioning is that when
[48:39] we lose the younger attorneys, we've
lost them bit typically to two two
[48:44] respects. They they get closer to home
because a lot of them are from Grand
[48:47] Rapids and they get paid a little bit
more. Now, I don't know how much that
[48:51] really has an impact on how they're paid
because we've been able to get new
[48:56] attorneys in that are really good. So,
I'm I'm not sure that that's a a great
[49:01] argument for raising the pay of the
attorneys. Um, but it is one of the
[49:06] things that come up comes up when we
lose someone is they say, "I'm getting
[49:10] paid a little more." Uh, what we've
combed that with is we have a a really
[49:16] forwardthinking system of CarPel. We
have a good office mix. We have really
[49:21] good uh attorneys. And so that I think
that's been drawing people in. We just
[49:25] hired uh starting next week a young
woman who was a brand new basically a
[49:30] brand new attorney and she's going to be
put in charge of the district court. And
[49:34] uh so so
our staffing is is really good. And so
[49:41] with that, I also want to tell you that
um one of the things that we did to uh
[49:46] we immediately did was to create a
docket assignment system for the
[49:50] attorneys. And that happened in 2025
right when we started. We said there's
[49:55] going to be two attorneys with Judge
Ankovak, two attorneys assigned to Judge
[49:59] Jip, one attorney assigned to Judge
Scotches, one attorney assigned to Judge
[50:03] Bernett, two attorneys assigned to Judge
Clearwater in family court, one attorney
[50:08] who did preliminary exams, and one
attorney who did pallet work and
[50:12] supervised the district court attorneys.
Um, with that, what that did is it
[50:17] streamlined the functioning of our our
office. No longer did seven or eight
[50:21] attorneys touch a file. when that file
gets to someone, that's their file. When
[50:26] so if you get a circuit court case, that
is your case forever and hour. So what
[50:30] was happening before is somebody would
get a a circuit court pre-trial motion.
[50:34] They'd have to pick find the paper file,
try to understand what was going on, had
[50:39] to read it, and then try to do a motion,
and they wouldn't know. They wouldn't
[50:43] know the case. They wouldn't know what
to do. They wouldn't know what
[50:45] appropriate resolution was. And they had
limited discretion to to resolve it
[50:49] anyway. And now what is happening is the
people that get those files, they know
[50:54] their cases. They know their cases. They
they and defense attorneys know who to
[50:59] call to try to resolve things. And
because they know their cases, they we
[51:04] are getting more appropriate resolutions
on on criminal cases. Our plea bargains
[51:09] have actually gotten better for us in
terms of of uh better resolutions. And
[51:14] when I say better, it means people that
go to jail, they people that need to go
[51:17] to jail are going to jail. people that
need to have these convictions on their
[51:20] record are getting convictions. But part
of that is because we changed how we did
[51:25] the business of of taking on cases. So
our our attorneys are are more involved
[51:31] in their own cases and they are able to
get better resolutions because they know
[51:36] the case. So an attorney another defense
attorney isn't going to say, "Oh, well,
[51:39] you have a weakness here and you have
this and that and therefore you should
[51:42] give us a better deal." Our attorneys
can say, "Nah, that's not true because
[51:45] look at this and this and this and
this." So I've seen that uh over time
[51:50] our our resolutions are getting better
and better and better and it's partly
[51:54] because we just changed the way we did
business. It's not a huge management I'm
[51:59] not a management genius but it that part
made a huge difference in how we resolve
[52:04] cases. So that part is is is running
fabulously well.
[52:22] Oh, and I did want to mention that with
Carpel, I think starting in 27, we we
[52:27] were signed on to Carpel before I got
here. So, I mean, we agreed to do the
[52:31] Carpel system and we got it free for a
number of years. Starting in 27, I think
[52:35] it's 15 or $17,000 a year. So, I want to
make sure you guys knew that. Um, now I
[52:41] would say this as an offset to that, we
have the Carpel system has allowed us to
[52:47] eliminate much of our paper supplies
that we had to get before because every
[52:52] one of those cases had a pretty
expensive uh paper folder that had five
[52:58] different sections and you had and each
one of them cost a fair amount of money.
[53:01] And so we have cut down the number of
expense maybe by about $10,000 just from
[53:07] not having to buy the paper files every
every for every case.
[53:12] Um and interestingly Carpel does not
have a
[53:16] probate u module. So our probate court
is still on paper but that's because
[53:22] there's no alternative and Carpel says
they're going to be working on a probate
[53:26] module but so far they have. So, we do
have a tiny portion of our office that
[53:30] still has paper files. So, and what I've
done there is made sure that they know
[53:34] how to write legitly because uh the the
other uh paper files were pretty bad.
[53:40] So, these are better.
[53:47] Um the other thing that I thought I'd
mention too is when we got when we when
[53:51] I was elected and before I came into
office, we met with Mr. the door to talk
[53:56] about the office plans. And uh Jessica
Wimi is my chief assistant and and I and
[54:04] Steve sat down and he showed us the the
plans that had been initially approved.
[54:08] And those plans called for 21 attorney
offices. And I was told that that that
[54:15] was the 10-year plan that that we wanted
to have enough space for 10 21 attorneys
[54:20] at 10 years. Now, we have 11 attorneys
right now. And uh and so when I saw that
[54:26] plan, all the attorneys were in a
cubicle in cubicles, 16 attorneys on the
[54:31] first floor in cubicles that basically
had a front desk, a desk, a credenza,
[54:35] and a chair and a door. They're very
small offices.
[54:39] And I I did inform uh
Mr. Sedora that I think that if we had
[54:46] more than 14 attorneys in 10 years, I
would be disappointed because I thought
[54:52] that we could do better and not have to
have because I asked him, I said, "Are
[54:56] are we going to double if we're going to
double the attorney staff for
[54:59] prosecutors? Are we going to double the
number of district courts and the number
[55:02] of circuit courts, the number of circuit
court staff, the number of district
[55:05] court staff? Is that what we're going to
double? we're going to have to build
[55:08] another building because 21 attorneys,
prosecuting attorneys, what what would
[55:13] we do with them? They'd have to be doing
cases. And so, so I asked Mr. Sedor to
[55:19] redesign that. And he came up with, I
think, just an amazing design. I think
[55:23] our space is beautiful. Uh, and anybody
who's been there, I know Commissioner
[55:28] Van Beink and Commissioner Belman have
been there and Commissioner Dugan have
[55:32] seen it. It's it's a beautiful space.
Yes.
[55:34] » Excuse me, Commissioner Lovers. I
believe it was a comment or a question.
[55:36] Thank you, Mr. I'm sorry.
>> Um,
[55:39] » given the addition of the extra circuit
court, do you have any issues keeping up
[55:44] with the trials and the pre-trial and
arraignments and everything with an
[55:47] extra courtroom?
>> Yeah, if you remember, I came here and I
[55:50] complained about that saying we might
need another spot if all three circuit
[55:54] courts are doing a full criminal docket.
And so the circuit court has
[55:59] accommodated us and judge judge Baker is
no longer having a full circuit court
[56:05] criminal docket. So her criminal cases
are down to three or four a lot. So she
[56:09] was doing what she had and and then
occasionally she'll have like a
[56:14] probation violation from one of her
cases. So they have they have
[56:17] accommodated us and we did not need
anybody else because her numbers were so
[56:21] low that we are able to uh work those in
with the attorneys that are dealing with
[56:26] Judge Jip and Judge Kovac. So yeah, so
that that resolved us up.
[56:30] » Thank you.
And one of the so so with the the the
[56:36] terms of the 21 21 attorneys over 10
years our goal is to we hopefully have
[56:41] less than 13. We haven't we haven't
asked for a new attorney for those
[56:46] unless conditionally the well Judge uh
Baker but right now we are fully
[56:51] staffed. We're we're happy with the
amount of staffing that we have for
[56:55] attorneys. So uh I don't see I don't see
a need. We're not busting at the seams.
[57:00] We're not going to be saying, "Oh my
gosh, we need two more attorneys next
[57:03] year." As long as things are consistent
with what's happened. Now, this is not
[57:08] necessarily 2025, but this year, there's
a big change coming. uh Commissioner Van
[57:12] Beek and and uh Administrator Sorrow
were with me as we met with Holland uh
[57:19] the in Ottawa County and for 50 years
Ottawa County has been doing Alligant
[57:24] County cases because there's three
precincts in Holland City that are
[57:28] actually in Alagan County and for the
last 50 years Ottawa County has been
[57:34] doing that. uh we met with them to try
to to resolve things because we had a
[57:39] contract that was signed just before I
came into office and within a year they
[57:44] had asked to re renegotiate that
contract. It substantially raised the
[57:48] price that would pay for their services
to do that. Uh, in addition, there was a
[57:54] a store owner in Holland that uh was in
the Alag County section and somebody had
[57:59] walked out with $2,000 worth of Yeti
coolers from their store and Ottawa
[58:04] County had had
declined to prosecute that case even
[58:08] though that person was picked out of a
lineup
[58:12] and but the guy who picked her her out
of lineup said, "I'm only 40% sure."
[58:17] Now, there was also cameras that showed
her car in Holland. So, so they
[58:22] complained to Ottawa, but then they
complained to us because it's our
[58:25] jurisdiction. And uh so every before
every year I have to go to Ottawa County
[58:32] and swear in all of their assistant
prosecutors to work in Alagen County. So
[58:37] I assume that they have some obligation
to me. [clears throat] So when we called
[58:42] them and said, "Hey, we want you to re
recharge that. Don't don't dismiss that
[58:47] because we think it's a good case. And I
was informed in no uncertain terms that
[58:51] they were not going to do that. If they
wanted to do it, we'd have to do it
[58:53] ourselves. But we did. And the woman
waved her preliminary exam, plead
[58:58] guilty. Now the store owner has
restitution and the person that was with
[59:03] her has also got a a warrant out for his
arrest. Uh and so I give you that as a
[59:08] background. Then we started meeting with
uh the Ottawa County uh prosecutor and
[59:13] everyone in Ottawa County, the Holland
city people.
[59:17] The long and short of it is they
terminated the uh contract, gave us
[59:22] 90-day notice, and as of October 1st of
this year, we're going to be doing the
[59:26] Ottawa the Alligant County portion of
Holland City. So, our office is going to
[59:30] take that over. And we don't know at
this point how much that entails. Even
[59:34] though they send us bills, there's no
way for us to know how many cases they
[59:38] have. We don't we don't know. So, right
now, we're planning on trying to do it.
[59:42] See how what what the workflow is and
and how much time it actually takes.
[59:48] Holland is a little different than us
because our courts have pre-trials on
[59:52] for Judge Scout on one day, pre-trials
for Judge uh Bernett on another day. So,
[59:57] we're structured. We have trials on this
day. If you go to Ottawa County, it's
[1:00:01] it's chaotic. you could have a probable
cause conference on Monday, Tuesday, was
[1:00:05] it Thursday or Friday in the morning, in
the afternoon. So, we've asked we met
[1:00:10] with Judge uh Bunts, who's this their
chief judge, and we asked him to if they
[1:00:14] could do that, and he said no. He said
no.
[1:00:17] » Excuse me. Yeah, back back to those
three precincts uh in in the city of
[1:00:22] Harlem, but within Alagen County,
>> they they when I say they, the Ottawa
[1:00:26] County courts or prosecutor's office
can't give you a an average number of
[1:00:31] cases that come from that area.
>> They cannot we've asked.
[1:00:35] » Is that unusual?
>> Yes. See, they they just started on
[1:00:39] Carpel, so I don't know what they were
doing before, but whenever we try to get
[1:00:43] they send us bills. They sent us bills
and we can try to to res, you know, but
[1:00:48] we don't know.
>> I wonder what those were based on.
[1:00:50] » I don't I do not know. They had to have
some kind of tracking, but if you ask
[1:00:53] them, can you pull you go to the
district court and say, can you pull up
[1:00:56] all the Allen County Holland cases? And
they say no. And so then we say, well,
[1:01:00] how are you going to do it now?
And so they're they're changing the case
[1:01:04] numbers. They're going to change it. put
AL or AC or something on that to to jud
[1:01:10] to say these are algen county cases
because they haven't really cared about
[1:01:14] where they are as long as they're in the
city of Holland.
[1:01:17] So, we also met with the the Holland
detectives and Holland Police Department
[1:01:22] and the the the the
police chief there, Matt Messer, has
[1:01:27] agreed to give us an office space there
because we asked Ottawa County, can we
[1:01:32] have space, just a room in your building
so that when we're there, we have some
[1:01:36] place to go and they said no. So Matt
Messer has agreed to give us a room that
[1:01:42] in the in the police department. So we
will have a place to print uh you know
[1:01:48] warrants and everything that we have. So
that's coming. Um we don't know exactly
[1:01:52] if we're going to need uh a person up
there or a half a person or spot. I
[1:01:57] don't know. We're it's too early to tell
how much is really happening there. But
[1:02:02] I wanted you guys to be aware of that
because we're we're going to be saving
[1:02:06] however much we spent on Ottawa County.
But again, we don't really know if what
[1:02:12] we're spending on Ottawa County is a
real number based on real cases or not.
[1:02:17] So, we'll find out as we go along. And
then
[1:02:22] other than that, I think that's about it
unless anybody has uh any questions for
[1:02:28] because I'd be glad to answer those.
Commissioner Benique. Thank you.
[1:02:33] » Sure. Yeah, [clears throat] we were in
that meeting and I I do didn't like how
[1:02:38] that we had no say or you didn't
specifically on what was prosecuted. I
[1:02:45] didn't care for that. And so I know that
the contract's been there a long time
[1:02:49] and I think it's it's probably a good
it's probably good to kind of move away
[1:02:52] from that. I'm curious to see how we end
up doing that because from our
[1:02:56] conversations, if I'm correct, we do a
little bit more online than they do.
[1:03:02] Correct. So, we were kind of hoping they
would switch up some of that, but we
[1:03:06] have to we're going to have to have
someone there in person. That's correct.
[1:03:10] » Yes. They don't do as much Zoom as we
do. The biggest issue that we had is on
[1:03:15] their warrants. They do weekend warrants
and they have for years made the
[1:03:21] prosecutors show up at the Fillmore
complex where the judges are, where the
[1:03:26] detectives are and the and the
prosecutors were actually typing the
[1:03:30] warrants and we were afraid that they
were going to make us do that because
[1:03:33] that would be a huge ask for us to have
to drive to Filillmore to be there at
[1:03:37] 8:00. And so when we talked to to Chief
Judge Bunts, he agreed that we could do
[1:03:44] our warrants on Zoom and email them to
the Ottawa or the Holland Police
[1:03:49] Department and Holland Police Department
would swear the warrants out in front of
[1:03:52] the judge. So we dodge a bullet by not
having to do that. They let us do that
[1:03:56] remotely. But in terms of uh pre-trials,
uh even in Alligant, I mean, we're in
[1:04:02] the building and we do Zoom pre-trials
because the judges like them better, but
[1:04:05] Ottawa County is not like that. So,
we'll have to have a person there. The
[1:04:08] other thing I would say is that I um it
may not be as bad as I had originally
[1:04:13] feared because Holland has a city uh a
city prosecutor that works for
[1:04:19] Cunningham Dolman and they prosecute
most of their uh tickets, most their
[1:04:24] drunk driving first offenses. A lot of
the things are city ordinances and if
[1:04:28] the if the person is charged with a
violation of city ordinance, the the
[1:04:32] Holland uh prosecutor takes care of
that. So, a lot of the stuff like
[1:04:36] traffic tickets and things like that, I
don't I think we're going to avoid. So,
[1:04:40] hopefully we won't have as much as I was
worried about.
[1:04:44] » A followup, Commissioner Vindic. Thank
you. Uh yeah, and so I'm curious to see
[1:04:49] kind of how that plays out and we don't
know and we I've asked those questions
[1:04:53] as you asked, chair, uh you know, how
many cases
[1:04:58] then that's hard to plan for. So I think
we have to give you some latitude inside
[1:05:01] of that because we don't know exactly
what we're going to have to do there and
[1:05:06] the timewise spent. But what I wanted to
ask was beyond that is in your goals. So
[1:05:11] workforce stabilization and retention uh
you know it talks about in here
[1:05:17] » um and you talked about as well the the
uh experience that you've brought in the
[1:05:23] collaboration and trying to train new
attorneys. Yeah.
[1:05:26] » Like Mr. would you just touch on what
that what is that going to look like?
[1:05:30] like how are you going to is it just
collaboration on cases like what are
[1:05:34] those newer attorneys how are they going
to soak up some of that older attorney
[1:05:38] more you know some of that more
experience they've had what are you how
[1:05:42] are you going to blend that so what we
do is John Blair is our appellet
[1:05:46] attorney but he is also in charge of the
district court attorneys so he's working
[1:05:49] with them on a weekly basis and talking
about uh district court order is very
[1:05:53] fast-paced so there's a lot of things
that have to happen quickly they've been
[1:05:58] working with uh Mr. Mr. Blair uh on like
at uh pre for pre-trials and for
[1:06:04] settlement conferences for trial
preparation, they have John as their
[1:06:10] first go-to, but if they develop
relationships with other attorneys, we
[1:06:15] we encourage them to go to those
attorneys as well. Dan Norbec is a very
[1:06:19] good resource because he's a district
court magistrate. He was and so he helps
[1:06:23] occasionally. Also, the new attorneys,
we have Nick Rad, who's a brand new
[1:06:28] attorney, and we have um a new attorney
that's starting next week, and she's
[1:06:32] going to be in the district court. So,
the newer attorneys typically are in
[1:06:36] district court until they get enough
experience where they can move up. They
[1:06:40] all we also as they're once they get a
little acclimated to district court then
[1:06:45] we start taking them and making them do
preliminary exams which are felonies and
[1:06:49] you have to prove probable cause in the
in district court but it's for higher
[1:06:53] charges and more serious charges. So we
usually pair them with somebody and they
[1:06:58] will start doing the felony cases as
well. So we have a collaborative we try
[1:07:02] to create a collaborative atmosphere
where they can go to any attorney in in
[1:07:07] the office and say hey I need help. this
is this is above my pay grade and I I
[1:07:11] don't understand it. And so far that
that that's been working pretty well.
[1:07:15] We've had we've moved two of our
attorneys that are in circuit court are
[1:07:18] still relatively young, but we have a
lead attorney in each courtroom. So that
[1:07:23] lead attorney is in charge of the the
the younger attorney and so they
[1:07:28] collaborate and work together. So that
person initially like Katie Hora um
[1:07:33] Michael will go to Katie Hora and say
hey I I've got this issue and so and
[1:07:37] then if Katie can't answer we have a lot
of other people that will work. So it's
[1:07:41] a trying to create a collaborative uh
atmosphere.
[1:07:44] » Good. So beyond that you've you've
talked about Carpel and that was a kind
[1:07:50] of a big step like going to digital but
you're two years in now. What do you see
[1:07:55] currently as what would you say your
biggest hurdle is left in front of you
[1:08:00] going forward?
I think that the the biggest hurdle is
[1:08:04] is going to be for a while. Um there's
two. One is the the body worn camera
[1:08:11] that's getting more and more there's
more and more body worn cameras and if
[1:08:15] there's six police officers it creates
this huge amount of of backlog of bodywn
[1:08:19] camera. So I think if that's that's
where we're we're we're trying to catch
[1:08:23] up. I'm afraid that summer's usually uh
quieter. So, I'm worried that we're
[1:08:29] going to fall behind on body warn camera
again. The other thing is is the market
[1:08:35] uh for attorneys. You know, right now uh
in the last year and a half, if you're a
[1:08:40] prosecuting attorney and you want to go
anywhere, there's people that are going
[1:08:44] to hire you. There are people that have
four and five openings. We're very
[1:08:47] fortunate that we don't have any
openings, but a lot of places are
[1:08:51] looking and they're poaching. You know,
we Barry County took one of our
[1:08:54] attorneys that Aaron Burr the last time
and and and he he was a great guy. We we
[1:09:00] had a party for him when he left and
where there's no animosity, but there
[1:09:03] are a lot of openings for prosecuting
attorneys. What I hope is happening is
[1:09:08] uh for the public defenders offices,
they got cut last year. Part of the
[1:09:13] reason I think we had a hard time
getting people is there was so much
[1:09:16] money being poured into public defenders
offices that they were competing with us
[1:09:21] for the younger attorneys. And uh this
last year our our office our public
[1:09:26] defenders office got cut a significant
amount $250,000 I think. So and that's
[1:09:31] happened across the state. So I'm hoping
that will ease the the shortage of
[1:09:36] prosecutors. So those those two things
and I think uh the biggest thing is with
[1:09:40] anything if you're if you're dealing
with 25 people is trying to keep
[1:09:44] everybody reasonably happy. I'm finding
that that is a little more difficult
[1:09:48] than I thought it was. But I think
that's that's always the that's always
[1:09:52] the task of making sure that your office
is running away that people feel uh
[1:09:57] appreciated and uh that you appreciate
their work.
[1:10:02] » Thank you. Uh Commissioner Lobers. Thank
you, Mr. Chair. Um go back to the
[1:10:07] Holland transition. Um do they give you
any indication that you know you
[1:10:11] mentioned the case where you know you
there was a case they didn't want to
[1:10:14] prosecute and they wouldn't let you.
>> Yeah.
[1:10:17] » Would that be reciprocal? So once you
guys take the reigns in all the Allen
[1:10:22] County cases, are they going to be quote
unquote big brother and say we don't
[1:10:26] like what you did. We're going to now
try to do something else or
[1:10:31] » they can't.
>> They can't. Okay. I just didn't know how
[1:10:33] that was gonna
>> technically it's our case. It it's
[1:10:36] always been our case even though they've
been dealing with it. Okay,
[1:10:38] » which is why as Commissioner Van Beek
said they they basically said, "We don't
[1:10:42] care if it's your case. We're going to
do what we want. If you don't like it,
[1:10:45] you do it yourself."
>> Now, I will say this, in times past, if
[1:10:49] we had a murder or CSC1 of a very
serious case, Alligan would step in and
[1:10:54] take those.
>> So, they didn't do everything
[1:10:56] completely, but we we would do some of
those cases if they were very important.
[1:11:00] But uh but for the most part 95% of the
cases were done by them. They don't have
[1:11:05] any authority to come in and say
anything about what we do.
[1:11:08] » Okay. Just wanted to clarify how that
relationship will then you know if
[1:11:12] that's complete autonomy of like
>> yeah it's us.
[1:11:15] » It's just a good thing.
>> And and before we had no say I mean if I
[1:11:19] asked them to do something they would
like no they would tell me to pound sand
[1:11:22] and that would be it and we'd have to do
it ourselves if we wanted it done.
[1:11:27] » So I'm I I think actually I I think that
it's better for our Alagan County
[1:11:33] citizens to have have an Alagan County
prosecutor be there. I just think it's
[1:11:37] better.
So, I'm hap I'm happy with that
[1:11:41] actually. And I will say this, what
we're planning on for the first quarter
[1:11:46] of take once we take it over, it's me
and Jessica Winas are going to be the
[1:11:51] ones who do a lot of the Holland work
because one, we can make decisions
[1:11:56] because she's their my chief assistant.
So, there's something that's not going
[1:12:00] well, we change it. Um, and two, that'll
give us a good idea of how many cases
[1:12:04] there really are. So, I I think we we'd
have to wait a quarter even before we
[1:12:09] came back to you guys and gave you an
idea of what's going on.
[1:12:12] » Thank you.
>> Anything else for our prosecutor?
[1:12:18] Thank you very much for your report.
>> Thank you for your time. And again, I
[1:12:21] would invite anyone that wants to come
in and take a look at the office or see
[1:12:24] how we do things, uh, come on in. Uh, I
would I would welcome that.
[1:12:29] » Thank you.
[1:12:32] Next on the agenda, uh, administrative
reports. I know that, uh, administrator
[1:12:37] Saro did send that out yesterday, uh, an
update to everyone. Um, is there
[1:12:42] anything you'd like to add to that at
this time?
[1:12:45] » Uh, no, Mr. Chair. I guess I'd like to
maybe just cover a little bit of a I
[1:12:50] guess outline for the U remainder here.
if it pleases you and the board. Um I
[1:12:56] can address uh any questions that you
may have on the update, but otherwise
[1:13:00] leave it, you know, submit it as in in
writing. Um if there are no questions, I
[1:13:05] I'd suggest that uh uh perhaps we, you
know, consider a break and go till about
[1:13:13] um 11 on the the budget. And then I do
have a I would like a brief close
[1:13:18] session with the board for collective
bargaining. And then just so the board's
[1:13:21] aware, myself and the chair have a a
meeting scheduled as well as
[1:13:26] Commissioner Lovers for 11:30. So, and
we got a lot to get done and so if it's
[1:13:31] okay with you, I'll yield the report to
any questions at this time.
[1:13:35] » Commissioners, any questions?
[1:13:39] » This time I think we'll go through the
consent items and then uh we'll take a
[1:13:43] 10-minute break. We'll get the consent
items done so when we come back we can
[1:13:46] jump right into the budget discussion.
Commissioner Dugan. Move to approve the
[1:13:51] consent items as presented for 821, 828,
and 94 of 26.
[1:14:00] » Mr. Commissioner Dugan uh makes a motion
to approve the consent items. Uh is
[1:14:05] there a second?
>> Second.
[1:14:07] » Commissioner D. Young seconds that. Any
discussion?
[1:14:12] Seeing none, we have a motion by
Commissioner Dugan, a second by
[1:14:15] Commissioner D. Young to approval of
consent items. Will you please call the
[1:14:19] role?
>> Commissioner Vani,
[1:14:21] » yes.
>> Commissioner Dio,
[1:14:23] » yes.
>> Commissioner Lovers,
[1:14:24] » yes.
>> Commissioner Beltman,
[1:14:26] » yes.
>> Commissioner Dub,
[1:14:27] » yes.
>> Those claims are paid. Um, at this time,
[1:14:34] um, without objection, I'd like to take
a break till 10:25.
[1:14:38] Is that all right with everyone?
Stay journ till 10:25. Thank you.
[1:25:59] call the meeting back to order. Um, just
to establish quorum. Uh, Madam Kirk,
[1:26:04] would you please call the role?
>> Commissioner Dan Beek here.
[1:26:09] » Commissioner D Young here. Commissioner
Lovers here.
[1:26:12] » Commissioner Belman here. Commissioner
Dugan
[1:26:14] » present.
Okay, we have a quorum. That brings us
[1:26:19] down [clears throat] on the agenda down
to discussion items 2027 to 30
[1:26:26] 2027 to 2031.
That's so far in the future. I can't
[1:26:30] even hardly say it. 2031 budget uh
discussion. Mr. Administrator, would you
[1:26:37] please uh kick this off?
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, well, as you
[1:26:41] may recall, we uh uh briefly started the
budget discussion at our uh our last
[1:26:47] meeting and uh in the interest of time,
the board was left with the uh memo and
[1:26:54] the original packet to review. Um I
don't contact administration if any uh
[1:27:01] questions or additional information was
needed. Uh to my knowledge to date, we
[1:27:05] have not uh not received any. And so,
um, the first thing I just want to do,
[1:27:12] uh, again, in the interest of time and
not necessarily trying to to read the
[1:27:17] memo to you, I want to start with, um,
you know, are there any specific
[1:27:22] questions from within the the memo that
you want to focus? Um, I had highlighted
[1:27:28] a couple of things at the last meeting
to say would probably be the main source
[1:27:31] of topic. So, we talk about
transportation and such. Uh those are
[1:27:36] some things I plan to try to make sure
that we're on the same page with, but
[1:27:41] just kind of open it generally first. Is
there anything specifically that you
[1:27:44] would like me to um walk through?
>> Commissioners,
[1:27:50] Commissioner Dugan,
>> uh one thing that uh I've been pondering
[1:27:55] as to transportation
uh before we had a lot of contracts that
[1:28:00] uh different organizations within the
county. of one of them being on point.
[1:28:06] Uh we're having that budget hearing for
onpoint year this coming Tuesday and
[1:28:12] wanted to go and try to understand
uh those contracts that they had to give
[1:28:20] up because of monetarial reasons. Can we
get those restored to help bolster that
[1:28:25] transportation budget or is that
something that we're not going to
[1:28:30] explore?
Um when you say thank you when you say
[1:28:35] get those restored are help me
understand the u those contracts that uh
[1:28:41] onpoint had with uh transportation to
give transportation to people that were
[1:28:47] needed to get to their jobs or uh mental
health appointments or just even from
[1:28:54] their homes to on point to uh attend
their appointments.
[1:28:59] » Uh those were all eliminated.
are those years back. Are those going to
[1:29:05] be pursued as extra context or a funding
source or transportation to bolster that
[1:29:12] contract?
>> Um well, I guess we maybe we can start
[1:29:16] with the the route as to um you know why
why they were um
[1:29:23] discontinued and then and then I guess
see what the appropriate uh funding
[1:29:28] would be for restoration. But Dan, do
you want you want to provide that, you
[1:29:31] know, some perspective on
what what happened there and then what
[1:29:36] how that fits into the current service
levels?
[1:29:40] » Sure. [clears throat]
If I'm correct in in what he's referring
[1:29:43] to is I'll be back.
>> You're pretty low. I'll try to
[1:29:48] » Hold on.
[1:29:53] » Is that better?
>> Yes. Yes.
[1:29:56] » Yes.
>> Okay. So in reference to what I believe
[1:29:59] you're talking about is back in 2017
there were contracts for service with uh
[1:30:04] community mental health at the time now
on point and that was to take eligible
[1:30:09] clients to and from you know
appointments. The funding at the state
[1:30:13] level was my understanding at that time
the funding at the state level did not
[1:30:17] flow into onpoint uh for the
transportation the same way that it used
[1:30:22] to and so to my understanding I mean
that's why the contracts went away. Now,
[1:30:26] do we continue to transport those
individuals? Uh, we do and there is some
[1:30:31] reimbursement, but that reimbursement
comes to Alagen County through the
[1:30:35] Michigan Department of Health and Human
Services and does not come directly from
[1:30:39] OnPoint. So, we are actually still
receiving funding for clients going to
[1:30:44] and from eligible appointments with with
OnPoint. Hopefully, that helps.
[1:30:50] » Thank you, Dan.
[1:30:55] Please uh Commissioner Lovers.
>> Yeah, on the transportation note um the
[1:31:00] some thoughts I had, you know, this
recommendation on the budget packet has
[1:31:05] numbers in there to maintain current
levels at 100%. Um but the thought I had
[1:31:11] is if we should consider and this may be
a card for the horse but
[1:31:17] funding you know if ridership is going
to continue to go up over the years
[1:31:22] funding a you know certain percentage
above that 100%. to
[1:31:28] to take it in account of 10% or whatever
percentage you want to say you know for
[1:31:33] next year and you know so we don't have
run into this issue next year and then
[1:31:38] the following you know if we're just
this is where it is now well if we know
[1:31:41] it's going to be here well you know we
can't go 10 years ahead but just a
[1:31:47] thought that I you know you know and I
know that will change some of the
[1:31:52] numbers that are here in this budget
recommendation but that was just
[1:31:58] Commissioner Van Beek.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, yeah, on that,
[1:32:01] what what are is there a percentage
we're kind of growing to Commissioner
[1:32:05] Lover's point, like a year? Like, have
you guys seen like rides? Is that
[1:32:10] growing? Is it shrinking? Like, what is
the what is beyond that? I know this may
[1:32:15] be a little too much down in the weeds,
but how many how many rides are we
[1:32:19] declining? Like, do we not have enough
transportation out there? But do we have
[1:32:24] some of that off the top of your head? I
know that's kind of
[1:32:28] those numbers are maybe not instantly
available, but
[1:32:33] » uh in terms of what we
provide, those are really those are
[1:32:38] quite accessible. I think I have them
here in the quarter 2 report as well,
[1:32:41] but um but I don't recall. Dan, do we um
provide like the uh demand that's unable
[1:32:48] to be uh met in in there or you know
rides just not able to be accommodated?
[1:32:55] » Yes, all that information is tracked
with the uh uh software app that we
[1:33:00] have. it tracks all of that information
and um I believe that if that's not in
[1:33:06] that report that's something that we can
easily provide.
[1:33:11] » So Dan, have we seen like do you have a
percentage of growth you've seen over
[1:33:15] the years?
[1:33:19] » The uh Yeah, I don't have that report
right in front of me. Rob, maybe you
[1:33:22] have that there. I think the specific
percentages were were listed right in
[1:33:26] there. um that was what she had put
together was both the growth um that
[1:33:30] we've seen to date as well as
anticipated future growth.
[1:33:36] » Um and I just want to be clear, are you
talking about the uh second quarter
[1:33:42] report or are you talking about the uh
budget memo?
[1:33:48] I
>> think it'd be the budget memo. I believe
[1:33:50] that's where the information should be
included.
[1:33:54] » All right. Yeah, I've got that up or I'm
putting that up on the screen as well
[1:33:58] here. Let's
[1:34:08] share this.
[1:34:28] Let me zoom that up. It's a little bit
loud.
[1:34:38] Thank you.
[1:34:43] Okay. So at least from a a high level
perspective,
[1:34:48] this is
the information provided in the budget
[1:34:52] memo and then in your quarterly um you
know service reports you you can see the
[1:35:01] hours of service and stuff over time.
But basically
[1:35:05] uh I think in the second paragraph there
in particular um
[1:35:11] from our current level the the gap that
we're we're seeing is um about roughly
[1:35:18] 420,000
that would actually bring us below our
[1:35:23] our current
which would result in about 4,000
[1:35:30] uh
service hours now to about 3,000 service
[1:35:37] hours per month. So, um waiting to about
a 30%
[1:35:42] change um
with the
[1:35:47] highest area of impact being employment
um related trips. Now, now having said
[1:35:55] that, Dan, that's that's sort of the
impact um
[1:36:00] of from our current service level.
I think within the um budget memo itself
[1:36:09] though, some of the other questions
being asked here are I think more the
[1:36:16] trending
over time.
[1:36:21] And I guess from that report that should
be in the quarterly.
[1:36:27] » Yeah, let me see if I can find that. I'm
I have seen that. So I'll look for that
[1:36:33] here shortly. Good
>> as you look for that. So my my thinking
[1:36:37] is and Lake Town has asked this as well
for increased uh transportation. Lake
[1:36:42] Town is a ways from where ACT is. So if
they call someone in Lake Town calls,
[1:36:48] they're the farthest away of Alagen
County where we are here. And so for
[1:36:54] them, like timewise, it's a long time
for them to get up there for those
[1:36:58] rides. And so [clears throat] I am a
proponent of transportation. Uh you as
[1:37:05] I've talked with some people, they don't
they would like that maybe to look a
[1:37:09] little bit different. Do we have to do
buses? Are there other things we could
[1:37:12] do? Like are there different types of
transportation we could offer? And I
[1:37:15] know in our conversations previously,
funding is becoming an issue. Well, how
[1:37:20] much do we as commissioners want to push
towards transportation? And then, you
[1:37:25] know, what I'm trying to ascertain
really is, is there the need? While I'm
[1:37:30] hearing these people say it, do we see
it with the calls and with the rides?
[1:37:33] Like, are these are these growing to
Commissioner Lover's point,
[1:37:36] » are they growing? I mean, is this a
place that we should say yes, we know
[1:37:39] this is a cost, but [clears throat] how
much is this helping the residents of
[1:37:44] Alen County? And I do like the idea of
trying to get maybe some corporate
[1:37:48] sponsors which bringing outside dollars
because at this point I mean we'd have
[1:37:52] to look at something whether it be some
type of millillage, you know, countywide
[1:37:56] millage to try to support that to get
extra dollars for more transportation,
[1:38:01] but it's something that my townships
have asked about, you know, increasing
[1:38:06] and expanding. And I just want to make
sure as we see we're seeing that need. I
[1:38:12] don't want to expand something and all
of a sudden we have this expanded group
[1:38:16] and it's not being used. I also don't
want to do that, right? So, you know,
[1:38:19] maybe if we had a plan to expand, you
know, each year or to look at different
[1:38:24] options of of
travel, you know, I know we have some
[1:38:28] senior rides, right, that people donate
their time. I think they get that they
[1:38:32] get mileage for that, Mr. Mr. Right.
>> So, we have some other options, but I
[1:38:38] just think transportation needs to be
continually looked at what we do.
[1:38:45] » Commissioner lovers.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So we have in our
[1:38:48] my area and Craig's area we have inner
urban um and a lot of my area is served
[1:38:54] by inner urban and I don't know if we
want to as a county rely on
[1:39:00] trends they have because they are
expanding but they rely on local primary
[1:39:04] villages from each municipality to
facilitate that and that grows all the
[1:39:10] time and their ridership has grown just
the same as our transportation has grown
[1:39:14] but what is the current status of lake
that I Remind me. Did they deny to put a
[1:39:18] mil their millillage on their ballot?
>> Yeah, they had at one point they were
[1:39:23] funding some of it. They pulled that
they pulled that back the right time.
[1:39:27] » They [clears throat] they it was voted
on or they never put it on the ballot.
[1:39:31] » They had voted and had some funding for
a short period of time to try it out,
[1:39:36] but uh what happened with there was some
of what the rides were being used for
[1:39:42] were not what it was necessarily
intended. Um there was more school bus
[1:39:47] kids taking the inner urban for school
started using school buses. They were
[1:39:50] using the buses for some different
reasons and so Lake Town had some
[1:39:55] difficulty with that uh because what
what they were being used for. But I
[1:40:00] also don't want to
everything gets abused at a time, right?
[1:40:05] But I also don't want to pull way back
because there was a few people not using
[1:40:09] it what was intended for originally.
Okay.
[1:40:15] Yeah, on this. Yeah,
>> administrator Sl.
[1:40:18] » So, [clears throat] I pulled up in the
quarterly reports that you receive um
[1:40:23] under transportation. Um
this starts to give you some of the the
[1:40:30] the statistics here like the number of
vehicle hours you can see for quarter 1
[1:40:35] compared to quarter two. Uh the miles
traveled um you can see was up.
[1:40:41] Passenger trips was was up. Um, you
know, new wrership was down a bit for
[1:40:47] quarter two. Um,
[1:40:52] trip denials. Um, that's the one. Dan, I
guess I would need you to explain if
[1:40:58] that maybe that one addresses their
question in terms of when it says a trip
[1:41:02] denial. Is that can you explain why that
occurs?
[1:41:06] » Yeah, [clears throat] that could be a
variety of different things. Cap
[1:41:10] capacity definitely is one impact there.
Um, sometimes it has related to kind of
[1:41:15] something you just spoke to, the school
requests. If somebody's like, I, you
[1:41:18] know, I need [clears throat]
transportation for my child five days a
[1:41:21] week, uh, those also tend to get denied
unless it links up with something that's
[1:41:25] already existing. [clears throat] The
other thing that can also show up
[1:41:28] because the way the system works is if
you call um, the day you need to go, you
[1:41:33] know, half hour, hour before you need to
be picked up, those are also considered
[1:41:37] denied because we require at least
advanced notice the day before. So I
[1:41:42] believe they can break that uh that
detail down you know in more in depth
[1:41:46] but all of that is what uh equals that
trip.
[1:41:50] » Commissioner Benique.
>> Thank you Mr. Chair. So and there's also
[1:41:54] correct me if I'm wrong if I called for
a ride and it was just a ride to go to
[1:42:00] wherever someone if Mark called for a
ride and it was a medical uh to the
[1:42:06] doctor appointment. there is some that
trumps that kind of isn't there is there
[1:42:10] like a distinction of my ride compared
to some of the others is that correct
[1:42:14] » if that information is shared yes I mean
we do prioritize medical I would say
[1:42:19] like the first priority would be
diialysis people that are requesting
[1:42:23] diialysis type transportation uh so yeah
medical falls into that employment and
[1:42:28] then um trips to the grocery store
that's kind of the hierarchy of the
[1:42:32] others prioritization system they use
>> is that stuff typically um asked or
[1:42:38] conveyed at the time that they call for
a ride. I mean would they say I'm going
[1:42:42] for dialysis?
>> Yes. Often that I mean that usually they
[1:42:47] come out with that information. Hey this
is what I need. Uh but again we we can
[1:42:51] ask that but they don't have to
necessarily tell us but if somebody
[1:42:55] gives us that information
[clears throat]
[1:42:57] provides that uh tend to again
prioritize those and generally because
[1:43:02] those are reoccurring type of trips
that's the other thing that you know
[1:43:05] becomes very evident. Yeah. So,
>> okay.
[1:43:08] » So, what I'm saying that's and that's a
great thing. I I think we should
[1:43:11] prioritize the medical aspect, but if
you called for a ride the day before,
[1:43:16] your ride is now, you know, you're not
going to be able to go because of the
[1:43:19] medical, and I understand that, but uh
Danny, we looked at
[1:43:24] well, other counties that mimic us
sizewise, rural, like what are they what
[1:43:29] are other people doing transportation
wise? Are they using buses like we're
[1:43:33] using? Are they using more individuals
with cars like more of like an Uber type
[1:43:38] feel? Uh what are what are other people
doing? I guess because as we talk about
[1:43:43] transportation, we talk about expanding
it possibly.
[1:43:46] Is is buses the only answer? Are there
other avenues that other counties are
[1:43:51] doing?
>> Uh yeah, thanks for that question. So I
[1:43:55] would say comparing other rural
counties, what we have in place is very
[1:44:00] typical. you know, in my 25 years of
being involved in in this industry,
[1:44:05] specifically our program, uh, what we
have mimics that from a service delivery
[1:44:10] standpoint. Um, in smaller concentrated
areas like when you have like one major
[1:44:16] city, you know, so you're communicating
between two key points, you'll tend to
[1:44:20] see more like what the inner urban has.
inner urban, you know, has that demand
[1:44:24] response and that allows the ability to
just call get a ride, but you have to
[1:44:29] have a certain number of volume to make
that cost effective. So, in a rural
[1:44:34] county our size, that's where that
reservation system is is prevalent. As
[1:44:38] far as are there other options out
there, uh it's it's very few and far in
[1:44:42] between, but some communities do have um
like a a medical ride program where it's
[1:44:49] it's kind of a hybrid between you have
transit drivers that drive cars, but
[1:44:54] then that person has to pay a premium
for that ride. It is still less than
[1:44:58] what say a taxi would be or an Uber,
which we don't have in our county
[1:45:03] anyways, but it does give that option.
That is something that um you know I had
[1:45:09] looked at even you know a few years
back. Um the upside to that is much like
[1:45:14] our current program the state and
federal funds they reimburse on a
[1:45:18] percentage of cost. So if your costs go
up so does your revenue. They cover that
[1:45:23] percentage of that operating cost. So if
you did put some type of uh you personal
[1:45:28] vehicle
county owned but you put a vehicle where
[1:45:31] you're taking a driver taking one person
you could still look at what is actually
[1:45:36] cost to provide that service and 50% of
that will still be eligible for
[1:45:40] reimbursement from state federal grants.
So in the communities where they
[1:45:43] implement that that has been successful
but again it you do have to pay a
[1:45:48] premium for that service and the
passenger would have to pay more than
[1:45:50] what if they get on the bus system.
>> So what are you talking amount wise?
[1:45:54] What do you think bid currently? What do
they pay to ride the bus?
[1:45:58] » Uh right now the uh so for average
passenger it's $2 each way. And so in
[1:46:04] this other model, what would it be like?
>> Uh last, again, this is a couple years
[1:46:09] back. Uh the communities that were doing
that, they were looking at like a like a
[1:46:13] $15 oneway trip. So it could be $30, but
again, that often would be like a trip
[1:46:18] to Kazoo, Grand Rapids, farther
distances.
[1:46:26] Commissioner Dugan and then
Administrator Sorrow.
[1:46:29] » Okay. Thank you. This is going to be
quite a few questions. Uh the new
[1:46:34] writers that are onboarded,
it's been consistently the same as to
[1:46:40] the data that were just shown. Was it
the same increase or number of people
[1:46:45] that are coming on board last year? And
is that maintaining across where that is
[1:46:51] the uh number of writers that is
growing?
[1:46:55] » Yes, we're seeing
I think over a two-year period we saw
[1:46:59] like 50% increase of wrership. I've
talked about individual people signing
[1:47:03] up for services. So that growth has been
tremendous and again when this board
[1:47:08] took action to add money to the budget
uh that kind of opened those doors to
[1:47:13] say look we're not going to refuse. So
for the longest time we had the ability
[1:47:16] to do that. We've now hit that threshold
where it's like, well, we can't continue
[1:47:20] to grow even though the demand is there.
>> And a lot of that growth has been around
[1:47:25] medical and employment. I think that's
where probably the bigger concern is.
[1:47:30] Got people that are depending on this
service to get back and forth to work.
[1:47:33] If we are forced to take that away, it
it just leaves a little bit of a huge
[1:47:37] cash. The second question is no shows.
Is that fairly steady uh when bus shows
[1:47:45] up and nobody comes out of the house or
the business to get on? Uh has that been
[1:47:50] steady from last year to this year too
because it looked like it was fairly
[1:47:54] steady in quarter one, quarter two?
Yeah, I think there's actually been an
[1:47:58] improvement in that area because uh we
had some management changes with our
[1:48:02] contractor and they've been taking a
more proactive approach to enforce
[1:48:07] people using the no policy and enforcing
the policy more rigorously in regards to
[1:48:13] make sure that if you don't show you're
not reliable then lose your access for
[1:48:19] 30 days that has helped curb some of
that. So, it's actually proved that.
[1:48:25] » Thank you very much. Uh, let me go to
administrator and his hand up for quite
[1:48:31] some time.
>> That's right. Well, thank you, Mr.
[1:48:33] Chair. I just, you know, I guess as to
the
[1:48:37] as Commissioner Lever's original
question, um I think right right now
[1:48:45] giving a brief like I don't know that
we're in the position to necessarily
[1:48:50] commit to a certain level above
a service level because um well because
[1:48:58] of of this that I I want to walk through
here which kind of combines
[1:49:02] uh your question a little bit with
Commissioner Jugan's previous question
[1:49:07] of several meetings ago um that kind of
brings all this together which is uh you
[1:49:13] know I'm hearing the board say well this
is important obviously we we we agree
[1:49:16] this has been an important service so it
just comes well how how do you sustain
[1:49:21] uh you know this in the near term and
you know ideally long term um I guess
[1:49:28] for this particular year just to kind of
cut to the chase on the paragraph we had
[1:49:33] before uh while it gets tight, I I I
believe we can
[1:49:39] prioritize and budget that 420 into the
general fund without
[1:49:45] hopefully without trying to increase the
actual um assessment or rate. Sure.
[1:49:50] » And that's why I say, well, I don't know
if we're ready yet to to kind of go much
[1:49:53] beyond that, but taking it in baby
steps, like I think we can probably at
[1:49:57] least
>> hold the line for 27
[1:50:00] at the current service level.
I think for
[1:50:06] uh kind of ongoing in the near term,
tying this back to Commissioner Dugan's
[1:50:11] question, well, what about the tax
limitation renewal strategy?
[1:50:18] And
I I think that has, you know, that was
[1:50:22] one of the original purpose and intents
when we put the
[1:50:27] community survey out when we did the
um tax limitation renewal question. That
[1:50:34] was one of the things. One was uh you
know looking at sheriff's department
[1:50:38] services, one was looking at
transportation and one was looking at
[1:50:41] you know debt reduction.
uh and I think one the other one might
[1:50:45] have been medical care and we had uh you
know asked what people were looking and
[1:50:51] and they were definitely favorable to
transportation. Um in turn the tax limit
[1:50:57] renewal was you know renewed to its
original 1965 state. Uh the challenge I
[1:51:04] think of seeing right now is we've had
discussion to say well do we just go to
[1:51:08] that max? Well, I I would I would be
very cautious about going to the maximum
[1:51:15] because
well, honestly because I lived in that
[1:51:18] box for I think kind of way too long and
as the roll back occurs and as revenue
[1:51:25] may you know slow at times uh really put
you in a back against the wall kind of
[1:51:30] scenario. So if you look at the top of
this chart, um you know why then when we
[1:51:37] did the tax limitation renewal back to
the 5 uh 7,
[1:51:45] you know, it it allowed an additional
6.2
[1:51:49] million,
but that's also because it hadn't been
[1:51:53] reset since 1965.
Now, fast forward to today.
[1:51:59] um for this. All right, I'll zoom things
in the way here. So for 27,
[1:52:07] even if we were to max that out and go
straight up to the uh
[1:52:15] » maximum, which has now been rolled back
to
[1:52:20] 5.3237.
So just think about I have to keep
[1:52:24] moving this around. Think about from
2020 2021 that we got that max reset to
[1:52:30] 5.7.
It it literally rolled back almost as
[1:52:34] soon as it was passed. Like you can see
it rolled back almost immediately to
[1:52:39] 5.6441.
Just since 2021,
[1:52:44] that maximum has now rolled back to
5.3237,
[1:52:49] which at the moment, if we were to say,
I'll just go ahead and max out our our
[1:52:53] our millage rate, uh, it would only
produce about a million and a half, but
[1:52:59] then look ahead to
2028.
[1:53:04] If we hold the line this year, we don't
do any additional increase, that
[1:53:09] capacity actually rolls back to even 1.1
million, which I think is starting to
[1:53:14] get extremely close to, you know, if if
we had I mean, I was prepared to say
[1:53:20] like if we had to tap into that to keep
transportation at its current level, I I
[1:53:27] I think that that would be a a fair safe
thing to do. But I think Commissioner
[1:53:32] Dan, the broader question, I'm going to
try to tie a few things here was like,
[1:53:35] well, what about parks? What about And I
would say until we get a history of
[1:53:39] renewal, I don't I don't see it. I I
don't see maxing out just the millage
[1:53:46] rate. Now, I also don't want to take
this as total doom and gloom because
[1:53:49] keep in mind when we say like number of
remaining bills, it doesn't mean revenue
[1:53:54] is not going up, okay? It just means the
amount that we have um that can be
[1:54:01] levied above our current rate and our
maximum and in between.
[1:54:06] So while that's rolling back, I do want
to be cautious to say, well, that
[1:54:10] doesn't necessarily mean that revenue is
rolling back. I mean, it may still be
[1:54:13] going up by 3% 5%. But what does happen
is once those numbers become the same,
[1:54:20] once your maximum levy becomes your
maximum limit, then you truly are
[1:54:27] operating the county with essentially
only a inflation allowable
[1:54:33] budget. And that's where we lived for a
very long time since 1965.
[1:54:40] And that's why it was so much. So the
last thing I kind of want to show on
[1:54:43] this chart is even if and so here so
here's the thing and and you know
[1:54:48] hindsight 2020 whatever I mean in a
perfect world maybe we would have done
[1:54:54] the renewal this year on the ballot um
and and it's not so it is what it is. I
[1:55:01] think the next only practical time then
would be the 28 election. I mean you
[1:55:05] wouldn't want to have a special election
on something like this. you wouldn't
[1:55:08] want to just throw it on like a school
election or something. So, when it comes
[1:55:12] down to it, I think this is personally
the world we're just sort of living in
[1:55:16] for the next two years is kind of
holding line as best we can on like
[1:55:20] transportation and and uh those things.
And then I think you go for the renewal
[1:55:26] in 28 again with the focus of the
questions you guys are asking is well do
[1:55:31] you want us to build into county
operations, you know, viable train? I
[1:55:37] think there's room in that because if
you were to get it reset, you know, that
[1:55:41] would bring it back to like 4.8 million.
Again, stressing with caution though
[1:55:46] that at each renewal, the more frequent
we do it, which some counties, I think
[1:55:52] like Clinton for example, they do it
every four like it just it's just
[1:55:55] automatic. And that was our plan. Like
when we put it out there, it was like,
[1:55:59] yeah, we're not going to let it go back
to where we didn't do it for 50 years.
[1:56:03] Um, but you can see that even in
comparison to 21, you know, that was
[1:56:08] such a big gap because it was left out
there so long. But you can see in 29,
[1:56:12] even if we do go to the full limit back
to 5.7,
[1:56:17] um, which would probably almost
immediately roll back to 564,
[1:56:21] you know, you can see that it's uh well
over a million less than the original
[1:56:27] capacity. So again, are you going to
fund
[1:56:31] every
additional service that citizens desire
[1:56:35] just within the operating millillage?
No, I don't I don't think that that
[1:56:38] capacity is there. At some point, some
things probably just do need a dedicated
[1:56:43] millillage. Do I think that you could
fund uh transportation
[1:56:49] uh as we did the first time around? Yes.
I I think there's room for that. Um, and
[1:56:54] you know, we could probably have some
discussion around like, you know, parks
[1:56:59] at a reasonable level, you know. Um, but
that's that's our analysis. Um, I guess
[1:57:07] Commissioner Dugan, you know, I don't
know.
[1:57:09] » Uh, hopefully this gets to the question
you previously asked. I didn't want to
[1:57:14] bypass that. But uh our recommendation
at this point looking for specifically
[1:57:18] at transit is to
build into the budget to maintain the
[1:57:24] current service level. And um right now
in discussions with Jennifer, I believe
[1:57:29] that we can do that without altering the
the millage rate for 27. Even for 28, I
[1:57:35] don't even know that I can say that's
true yet. But for 27, I believe that we
[1:57:40] can do that.
uh Commissioner Lobers first and then
[1:57:45] Commissioner Dugan.
>> Yeah, and I appreciate that, you know,
[1:57:48] the intention of that discussion that I
that got started here. Just I just want
[1:57:52] to put that out there for, you know, as
we look ahead, you know, what level of
[1:57:56] service do we want to provide? If we
know that's is a demand. Now, that
[1:58:00] doesn't mean we can afford it, but
if that demand is there, where do we
[1:58:04] want to be? You know, what does that
look like? And if we don't do that is to
[1:58:09] your point Rob in the next two years are
we talking about more denials um
[1:58:15] changing the priority system of people
called for ride
[1:58:20] sorry we've changed the system you don't
or raising rates
[1:58:26] um you know
all to be determined what does that look
[1:58:30] like right I mean in the event that of
those scenarios so I just wanted getting
[1:58:36] out there as a discussion starter. So,
thank you,
[1:58:39] » Commissioner Dugan.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to take
[1:58:44] the board down memory lane here a little
bit of in our 2026 budget of we had a
[1:58:52] debt plan. We were going to think about
playing paying off our debt and that
[1:58:57] would have given us a 1.298
[1:59:02] million in interest.
If we pay that off, is that interest
[1:59:09] the accumulated amount that we can go
and budget put into the budget other
[1:59:15] places or is that a lump sum of what the
remaining years were going to be?
[1:59:22] Because in my analysis of this, if we
have 1.29 29 after paying the debt off
[1:59:30] that we don't have to pay in interest.
Where can we go and massage the budget
[1:59:36] with that money to maintain services and
keep things rolling along uh
[1:59:44] strategically
stable?
[1:59:48] » Well, I think it comes down to so so
essentially what it comes down to is the
[1:59:51] debt service payment. You know, the
payment being in the the budget. So the
[1:59:55] interest becomes, you know, certainly a
a savings, but that's also part of the,
[1:59:59] you know, the payment of course as well.
>> Um, right now the debt service is still
[2:00:04] built into the budget. Uh, we are, you
know, on track to at at a minimum pay
[2:00:11] the um pension bond, you know, off a
little early. Uh what I guess the
[2:00:17] caution point that I would see at this
point is
[2:00:22] understanding some of the other needs
that we've you know discussed
[2:00:26] particularly by way of capital. Um, I
don't I don't necessarily see us being
[2:00:33] able to fully take out the
debt payment and just sort of reallocate
[2:00:38] that to services because our capital as
you know still starts from a roughly u
[2:00:48] what is it Jen about 1.3 million kind of
starting point.
[2:00:53] » Yes, it starts at 1.3 for the revenue
share. Is that your what you're
[2:00:57] referring to? correct? Yeah.
>> Yes.
[2:01:00] » And then uh you know and then there's a
percentage split up above that for it.
[2:01:04] There's increased revenue sharing things
of that nature. But my concern is
[2:01:09] whether you look at it in terms of uh
major infrastructure like you know
[2:01:14] additional building needs or renovations
or whether you look at it as the ongoing
[2:01:18] capital for like vehicles and such.
Either way, each year we've actually
[2:01:23] been sort of taking from the um
liability syncing fund in order to pay
[2:01:28] for some of that capital.
>> Uh just last year uh or going into this
[2:01:33] year alone, I mean some of those axon
uh cost as you saw were uh what John
[2:01:39] like 500,000 over three years something.
>> Yes. might have split it out, but you
[2:01:45] know, and I don't I don't see body
cameras, things like that going away
[2:01:50] anytime soon. So, and I don't see the
cost plummeting anytime soon. Um, so
[2:01:56] that's where I would say I think you're
on the right track in terms of Yes. I
[2:02:00] think that the debt service payment
can hopefully either be rerouted to your
[2:02:06] other infrastructure projects or um
other capital, but I don't see a large
[2:02:12] amount that we could maintain those
infrastructure capital needs
[2:02:19] and also divert all of those dollars
into services because once you put it
[2:02:24] towards services, it's, you know, it's
kind of gone. And and then that's kind
[2:02:28] of been our strategy here is uh you know
this year we are taking a very minimal
[2:02:34] approach on like new positions. We
trying to get our contracts you know
[2:02:40] settled in advance that the message was
definitely put out to employ groups like
[2:02:45] you know obviously we'll negotiate we'll
do everything but the reality is from a
[2:02:49] money perspective I mean we're trying to
prioritize those needs. take it while
[2:02:54] you can because we have a lot of other
needs. So, I've been trying to let
[2:02:58] groups know like if this is not, you
know, this is a very nice package that's
[2:03:03] been presented. Um, but it is, you know,
some of the things we've offered are
[2:03:08] sort of one time because if we can't get
agreement now, like we got to so that's
[2:03:11] why I'm even saying like, well, I think
we probably can get the transportation
[2:03:16] thing into the budget and and some of
those, but you know, again, dollars have
[2:03:20] to go one way or the other. So, so I
think right now if we can get the
[2:03:23] contracts in place, we'll know for the
most part what our personnel cost over
[2:03:27] the next couple years will be, pay the
debt portion off, use the debt service
[2:03:32] to help balance out some of these
infrastructure needs that we've been,
[2:03:36] you know, kind of behind on, um, and
then, um, you know, at this point, at
[2:03:41] least prioritize transportation
and work sparingly within that, um,
[2:03:49] within at
millage maximum and to me I would say
[2:03:55] you know see what happens at the 28. I
mean if you guys decide to put it out
[2:03:59] there but my recommendation following
the board's previous decisions was to uh
[2:04:04] definitely not let too much time go by
before renewal. And so if you can get
[2:04:08] that tax limitation renewed in 28,
um then I think you know you'll have
[2:04:15] some more viable discussion for some of
the increased service and parks. If it
[2:04:20] doesn't get renewed, I think that's
going to honestly push you into either a
[2:04:24] what can we look at for dedicated
millillage or frankly just say hey this
[2:04:28] is we're just back to basic operations.
So that's that's the picture.
[2:04:32] » Yeah, I I think 2028 is our first
opportunity to do that. Um, and I know
[2:04:38] that's a ways out, but I think we can
get there. Commissioner Dugan.
[2:04:41] » Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. And to to
broaden that discussion,
[2:04:47] I would like to hear from
administration.
[2:04:52] If the proposal is is to put this tax
limitation budget question on the 28
[2:04:59] ballot, when does administration have to
let what's the drop dead date as to the
[2:05:07] commission acting to put this? If you
need to have it within the next six
[2:05:12] months, this is the course we're going
to go ahead and do. put it in
[2:05:18] sync that this board wants to have it
done or if it's going to be within the
[2:05:22] next 12 months of sometime towards the
end of 27 that yep, we're putting it on.
[2:05:30] This is where we're going so we can get
to the public uh succinctly educated as
[2:05:35] to what we're facing
if we if it's not passed. Absolutely.
[2:05:42] » So, I I guess I'd like to have that time
frame uh pretty well in our uh
[2:05:49] administrative report uh sometime as to
when we need to absolutely act of to to
[2:05:57] make sure that we don't trip our own
selves up.
[2:06:00] I I think we'll be able you know the
nice thing in looking ahead at that is
[2:06:05] uh the last time you know we had to do a
significant amount of legal research and
[2:06:10] FAQ
and you know um really building that
[2:06:15] information. Um luckily I still you know
I've kind of maintained sort of a packet
[2:06:21] for that. Um I think the biggest things
that'll be so I think most of it's going
[2:06:26] to be able to happen just with just
within 28. Still the biggest question
[2:06:29] will be you know do you want August or
November of course and then um from
[2:06:35] there just the board especially our our
um newer members which not really new
[2:06:40] anymore but kind of new new IST members
um there is actually a committee that
[2:06:47] has to be formed that has a
predetermined
[2:06:52] membership in terms of the
representation. So you and and there's
[2:06:57] different parties that choose different
members. So the probate judge has a
[2:07:01] certain appointment, the board makes
certain appointments, but basically that
[2:07:05] committee gets together and they
actually have to make the recommendation
[2:07:10] for the um tax limitation renewal. So
that's the part I think it's a great
[2:07:16] question that I would say at a minimum
you know you want to probably do that um
[2:07:22] you know a few months in advance of you
know whatever u
[2:07:28] uh ballot you'd want that on
>> and that was 2020 was last thought
[2:07:32] correct
>> correct
[2:07:36] be
>> thank you m chair would it be
[2:07:38] advantageous when we get closer into
that to have some type of plan laid out
[2:07:43] of over doing what the plan is to do
with that because if we just want to
[2:07:47] reset it, they're going to say why. Like
is is there any and I don't know if that
[2:07:53] is the right thing to do or not, but is
there any discussion of laying out like
[2:07:56] what these dollars would be allocated
towards if you go ahead and renew this?
[2:08:01] I I don't know how that goes.
>> Well, I think the the best way would be
[2:08:04] to, you know, again, we we we created a
lot of information on that the last
[2:08:08] time. I think the best thing would be to
walk through that in terms of, you know,
[2:08:12] okay, let's update this. What do we
want? What one of the key things to keep
[2:08:16] in mind though that that I think um it's
kind of like the dispatch search charge
[2:08:20] like sometimes you're doing a search
charge and people are like, well, it's a
[2:08:22] millage and it's like, well, that's not
it's not a millillage. You're actually
[2:08:25] setting a maximum of the search charge.
Same thing in this case like in and
[2:08:30] again other there are other counties
that it doesn't automatically result in
[2:08:36] a levy. That's the people that's the
hardest thing I think for people and
[2:08:39] it's a trust issue too. But so for
example you could increase the maximum
[2:08:45] and that's no additional
which in many ways I mean again that's
[2:08:49] our goal I would say do recommend you
know people look at way they say oh it
[2:08:53] was you know it's less taxes they're not
at their limit. It's like, well, yeah,
[2:08:56] because you know, like they're they're
not at their limit. And that's so I
[2:08:59] think that's where we want to stay is
not necessarily like vote for this and
[2:09:05] it's going to automatically pay for, you
know, but but more like we're just
[2:09:10] renewing what they originally set as our
limit. You know, they're really putting
[2:09:14] the limit in place. It's just basically
keeping it instead beyond, you know,
[2:09:19] with with the headly roll backs. But we
did marry that with yes, this will
[2:09:24] create some room and here's some needs
identified. So what we did was we built
[2:09:28] those questions into the community
survey. We got those results and then
[2:09:33] that translated into okay, if we do have
some room in our limit, we'll add some
[2:09:38] deputies do transportation. And so so
yeah, there's a process that we can go
[2:09:42] through. And like I said, the nice thing
is we've got all the documentation now
[2:09:46] that we used last time. And we we
actually even had like a project website
[2:09:49] that we still have that that kind of
answered all these questions. So
[2:09:53] » I just think a lot of people don't
understand the heavy roll back aspect. A
[2:09:56] lot of the voters don't understand what
that is specifically. So
[2:10:00] » but to your point, Commissioner Benique
though, I would be a little hesitant to
[2:10:04] just spell it out too specifically
because I I don't want to tie our hands
[2:10:09] that it has to be used just for those
things because it's a it's a dynamic
[2:10:14] thing. It changes it. constantly and and
the priorities um may or may not change.
[2:10:22] Um we could show some of the some of the
deficits that we have and and here's the
[2:10:27] need and here's why and here's what this
will do,
[2:10:32] but not not to I mean just that's just
me talking not to lock it in that we're
[2:10:37] going to specifically use it for this
because it could limit what we what we
[2:10:42] do in the future. Makes sense because if
something else comes up then we we've
[2:10:46] kind of pigeon our fold ourselves into
that. So good point.
[2:10:50] » Point of order.
>> Yes.
[2:10:52] » Uh you had mentioned before that we
needed to sort of wrap this up by 11:00
[2:10:57] to
>> uh get into a close session.
[2:11:00] » We we we we should. Um anything else?
Any questions for administration that
[2:11:06] they need to work on before we have our
next meeting? I guess we can any
[2:11:10] commissioners have something some
homework.
[2:11:14] Administrator Saro
>> I would just ask to confirm and again
[2:11:17] this isn't final but next so the plan is
next budget next budget meeting would be
[2:11:22] essentially the final in terms of saying
yes we authorize this budget to be put
[2:11:26] out for public review and scheduled a
public hearing for October. That said
[2:11:32] and I don't I don't really need a formal
action here. I just want to make sure
[2:11:34] we're on the same page. So, are you is
there any concern with us presenting you
[2:11:40] with a budget then that prioritizes and
builds in um you know maintaining
[2:11:46] transportation at at least its current
level to make up this roughly 420,000
[2:11:52] gap which in turn will also bring in an
additional 400,000 in federal and state
[2:11:56] fund. Is anybody concerned with us
presenting you that budget to maintain
[2:12:02] that service for 27?
>> No. and looking around the room by head
[2:12:06] nods. I think that's a good uh plan
forward and that way it gets out there
[2:12:10] and we can work with it from there.
>> I think that was really the biggest
[2:12:14] thing. I mean, of course, if there's
other details stuff we can, you know,
[2:12:18] talk about the next meeting, but uh
that's helpful. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[2:12:23] » Okay,
moving along on the agenda. Um we have
[2:12:27] no action items, no planning items. It
brings us down to public participation.
[2:12:32] Um, is there anyone that would like to
address the board of commissioners at
[2:12:36] this time?
Seeing none in the boardroom, Mr. Sedor,
[2:12:41] is there anyone online seeking
recognition?
[2:12:45] » Not that's seeking recognition, Mr.
Chair.
[2:12:47] » Okay. Thank you.
Uh, future agenda items. Uh,
[2:12:52] Commissioner Lobers, we do the opening
prayer. Um, we'll have our consent
[2:12:56] items. Um action items will be the final
budget and set the public hearing for
[2:13:02] 2027.
Uh is there any requests for mileage at
[2:13:06] this time?
Seeing none boards and commission
[2:13:11] reports.
[2:13:15] Seeing none in the interest of time.
Thank goodness. Um
[2:13:20] any any discussions for round table
amongst commissioners?
[2:13:26] » Commissioner lovers
>> um yesterday I had privilege of seeing
[2:13:31] the I've been to it before but the uh G
Lake Drive did the surgeon release at at
[2:13:36] New Richmond County Park which is kind
of neat to see. They do a little
[2:13:41] ceremony with some music and you know
the the ways of the tribe what they do
[2:13:46] and and it was kind of neat if you ever
get a chance another year to to to
[2:13:50] witness it. It's kind of cool and they
were 16 sturgeon like that. So anyway,
[2:13:55] just wanted to mention that that it's
kind of a neat opportunity to attend.
[2:14:00] Thank you. Commissioner Dugan,
>> I'd like to recognize Whitney Heirsman
[2:14:06] uh as to her recognition nationally uh
for the dedication that she has shown uh
[2:14:13] providing our transportation and Dan's
hiring for uh compliment him on looking
[2:14:19] at uh finding real talent and u thanking
her for uh bringing a lot of honor back
[2:14:26] to Alo County.
>> Good. Anything else for round table?
[2:14:36] Seeing none, that takes us down to next
on the agenda would be close session.
[2:14:42] Commissioner Dugan.
>> Move. I move at this time to go into
[2:14:45] close session for the purpose of
collective bargaining report by the
[2:14:51] administrator.
>> Moved by Commissioner Dugan to go into
[2:14:54] that collective bargaining close
session. Is there a second?
[2:14:58] » Second. Commissioner Van Beek seconds
that any discussion.
[2:15:05] Seeing none, um before we vote on this,
just so the listening audience knows, um
[2:15:12] once we return back from our close
session, we'll immediately adjourn. So
[2:15:16] there'll be no other no um other
business uh discussed at our meeting
[2:15:20] today.
So, we have a I have a motion by
[2:15:24] Commissioner Dugan, a second by
Commissioner Van Bele to go into close
[2:15:28] session for collective bargaining. Um,
any discussion?
[2:15:33] Seeing none. All those in favor, please
say yes. Opposed.
[2:15:38] Okay.
Turn to the back commission. I was done
[2:15:44] in