1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:01,120
Okay,

2
00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:02,399
>> we're live now.

3
00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:17,670
>> Okay, you want to put up the agenda?

4
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,000
» You would think otherwise. Okay, we

5
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,000
would like to uh welcome everybody to

6
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,080
Alpine City Planning Commission meeting

7
00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:30,880
today, September 1st, 2026

8
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,800
at City Hall at 20 North Main Street.

9
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,920
Let's do a quick

10
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,320
uh roll call. Um from the planning

11
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,600
commission, Troy Slade,

12
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,920
Michelle Shurmer. Shmer,

13
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,760
>> John McCay, myself, Jeff Davis,

14
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,239
>> Greg Butterfield,

15
00:00:56,239 --> 00:00:59,039
>> and from the city we have Kaden Lion and

16
00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:01,120
Jason Jud

17
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,960
and Mara Fox. Correct.

18
00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:07,280
>> Okay.

19
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,200
Um,

20
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,000
uh, we are excusing Alan McDonald. He's

21
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,799
out of the country this week.

22
00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:19,040
Um, let the record show that the meeting

23
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,119
has been duly noted as as Allan likes to

24
00:01:23,119 --> 00:01:26,240
say uh publicly

25
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:31,360
and uh let us begin with a prayer.

26
00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,240
Susan, would you mind giving that? Thank

27
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,320
you.

28
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,920
>> Our heavenly father, as we come before

29
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,799
thee this pretty fall day or evening,

30
00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:42,320
we're so grateful for the many blessings

31
00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:43,920
that we enjoy. Father, we're very

32
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,360
mindful of the things around the world

33
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,680
that are causing a lot of stress and

34
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,920
commotion for other people's lives, and

35
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,280
we pray for them that they will be

36
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,360
looked over and blessed to um get out of

37
00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,759
these hard circumstances.

38
00:01:57,759 --> 00:02:00,320
We're grateful for the citizens of this

39
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,920
great little town. We're grateful for

40
00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,840
the leadership and we're grateful that

41
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,000
we have a role in trying to make things

42
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,039
run smoothly and to come to decisive

43
00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,200
decisions that would be good for the

44
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,599
whole community. We pray that thy spirit

45
00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:15,120
will be with us. We're so grateful that

46
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,959
we live in this great country and please

47
00:02:16,959 --> 00:02:19,680
bless that we will be mindful of other

48
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,400
people and how we treat them and and

49
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,239
that we can have a very productive meeting

50
00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:27,760
this evening in the name of Jesus

51
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:28,640
Christ. Amen.

52
00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:30,879
>> Amen. I'll lead us in the pledge. All

53
00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:34,869
rise. [clears throat]

54
00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:38,319
I alian to the flag of the United States

55
00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:41,280
of America and to the republic for which

56
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,720
it stands. One nation under God,

57
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,200
indivisible, with liberty and justice

58
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,800
for all.

59
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,879
>> Thank you.

60
00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:53,840
>> Thanks, Susan.

61
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:58,080
Okay. Um, we'll turn the next item over

62
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,280
to Kaden as he has a little presentation

63
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,640
to give us.

64
00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,440
Okay, thank you. Yeah, so I was last

65
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,959
weekend I was feeling sad that this

66
00:03:08,959 --> 00:03:10,560
little part of our agenda always says

67
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,000
none. So I was like, "Oh, let's just

68
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,760
have a little discussion about uh about

69
00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,080
planning. Just a little planning lesson

70
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:19,280
and discussion." I thought it would be

71
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:20,640
fun. So we'll make it brief though

72
00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,560
because obviously we just uh we want to

73
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,319
go home not too late. So um let me just

74
00:03:26,319 --> 00:03:29,200
jump over to this actually before I do

75
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,640
that. So a little warm-up to this. I I

76
00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:36,080
threw this together just now. So, I have

77
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,720
two little uh images here. I would like

78
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,200
the commissioners to just tell me if

79
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,640
they agree or disagree with these

80
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,599
graphics and why.

81
00:03:47,599 --> 00:03:50,080
So, this says both both of these images,

82
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,319
the above and below are 20 mph zones,

83
00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:54,000
but only one of them is designed like

84
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,080
it.

85
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,599
Well, I mean, the top one does

86
00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:04,159
doesn't show any obstructions

87
00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:06,480
and

88
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,439
it's kind of a residential area, it

89
00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:11,360
appears. I mean, I guess they both

90
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,400
probably could be residential, but but

91
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,870
the road does look narrower.

92
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,320
» I think the bottom one looks it it has

93
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,800
enough with those trees. I don't think

94
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,800
anybody's going to go racing down that

95
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:32,479
for some reason. It feels tighter, but it's it's just I don't know. I can't

96
00:04:32,479 --> 00:04:34,560
imagine going putting pedal to the metal

97
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:35,919
there. But the other one looks like a

98
00:04:35,919 --> 00:04:37,440
straightaway, which I just drove a

99
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,360
Lamborghini a Lamborghini the other day,

100
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:40,320
just FYI.

101
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,600
>> Cool. [laughter]

102
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,440
>> Really? For the first time?

103
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,360
>> No, but for the second time out that

104
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,000
racetrack.

105
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:46,720
>> Oh, really?

106
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,000
>> Oh, man. That was so fast.

107
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,680
>> One looks like it's about 10 years old.

108
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,440
The other looks 30 years old. So, one

109
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,880
certainly established.

110
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,639
>> So, one's older. Yeah.

111
00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:56,080
>> Doesn't have sidewalks. Doesn't have

112
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,040
curb and gutter. Uh you can tell one's

113
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,720
20 years older than the other.

114
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,360
>> Okay. I like that comment.

115
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,400
>> But it feel it feels like you would be

116
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,400
less in the bottom one to me.

117
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:08,800
>> Okay.

118
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,360
>> I don't know. It just feels [snorts]

119
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,199
>> I don't know. Like I can't really see

120
00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:15,360
down the street that well. I'm not gonna

121
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,560
fly down there.

122
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,639
>> Yeah.

123
00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:20,639
>> So it says one of them is designed like

124
00:05:20,639 --> 00:05:22,160
it. Which one do you think is the one

125
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,479
that's designed like it?

126
00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:26,479
The top one.

127
00:05:26,479 --> 00:05:28,000
>> You guys think the top one is designed

128
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,120
like a 20 mph zone more than the bottom?

129
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,919
>> I think the bottom

130
00:05:33,919 --> 00:05:36,160
>> design [laughter]

131
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,160
>> it's a possibility too

132
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:39,440
>> older neighborhood

133
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,600
>> happened older neighborhoods their trees

134
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,520
where they want them.

135
00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,759
>> Okay.

136
00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:47,680
>> Yeah. It's a smaller road so it was

137
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,919
probably designed to be 20 but the

138
00:05:49,919 --> 00:05:51,840
original it's a narrow road.

139
00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:53,440
>> Yeah. Yeah. The top one definitely

140
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,199
probably is more masterd designed,

141
00:05:55,199 --> 00:05:56,479
right? Master planned.

142
00:05:56,479 --> 00:05:57,600
>> It's a 25

143
00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,039
>> likely. Okay.

144
00:05:59,039 --> 00:06:00,639
>> Is that what neighborhoods are usually?

145
00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:01,280
25.

146
00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:02,639
>> Yeah, I would say so. Yeah.

147
00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:04,319
>> Just Yeah. It's just a narrow street.

148
00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:06,319
Cars are parked close. If the kids comes

149
00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:08,080
darting out, boom. You know, I mean,

150
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,680
same with the top, but the bottom feels

151
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,120
more

152
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,160
>> I think.

153
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,479
>> Yeah. top one you can see the homes are

154
00:06:14,479 --> 00:06:17,360
set back so you can kind of

155
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,000
uh well more likely people will be up

156
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,800
and around the garage area front door so

157
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,319
you can see them more clearly from the

158
00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:26,800
middle of the road if you're driving

159
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,000
bottom one maybe it's a little more

160
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,400
obstructed I think Susan Troy were

161
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,560
saying that I also like what you guys

162
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,280
said you both said it feels like this it

163
00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,280
feels like you know this is how I would

164
00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:39,120
feel on that road and I think a lot of

165
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,800
the times we forget in city design and

166
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,639
planning that um usually feel is what

167
00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:50,479
people react to. It's not law, even

168
00:06:50,479 --> 00:06:52,479
though it should be probably, but

169
00:06:52,479 --> 00:06:55,039
usually feel is more what we react to

170
00:06:55,039 --> 00:06:57,840
because that's more what our senses uh

171
00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,080
are are feeling in that moment, right?

172
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,720
So, if it feels like it's safe to to

173
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,720
drive quickly, then it's more likely

174
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,560
someone will drive quickly no matter

175
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,240
what the law is. Um so, yeah. Okay. So,

176
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,400
let's move on to the next one.

177
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,240
What's the answer?

178
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:15,199
>> Can't leave us hanging.

179
00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:16,880
>> Yeah, the bottom one is for sure more

180
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,039
design like a 20. Yeah. And I would say

181
00:07:19,039 --> 00:07:20,880
the reason why I think what you guys

182
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,280
have already said, the street trees,

183
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,880
narrower road, um, you know, there's

184
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,599
room for parking or maybe there's not a

185
00:07:29,599 --> 00:07:32,319
sidewalk here, but people to walk here.

186
00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:35,120
Um, there's just more friction is what

187
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:36,639
you could say. There's more going on.

188
00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:38,240
So, as a driver, you're a little more

189
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,479
hyper aware, which naturally causes you

190
00:07:40,479 --> 00:07:43,120
to slow down here. Like, you still are

191
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,960
aware. You maybe a kid will dart out

192
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,319
behind this white car. So, you want to

193
00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:48,000
be safe. You want to be make sure you're

194
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,080
paying attention, but it's just a little

195
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,000
bit easier to feel like I can drive

196
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,400
faster on this road, I would say. I

197
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,319
don't know if you guys agree, but okay,

198
00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:57,919
let's look at this one, too. Do you

199
00:07:57,919 --> 00:08:00,879
agree or disagree? And why with this?

200
00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:04,080
So, this is saying this is a 15-ish mile

201
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,560
an hour pedestrianfriendly street. So,

202
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,319
you can there's always people out on the

203
00:08:08,319 --> 00:08:11,520
road. It's a narrower street. Car cars

204
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,240
parked here on the right side.

205
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,120
And it's saying this is safe. This

206
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,680
middle one is 30 to 50 miles an hour.

207
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,400
It's kind of designed like you would

208
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,240
imagine State Street or something like

209
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,160
that where there's a lot of businesses

210
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,440
on either side. There's street lights.

211
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,440
There's a median here, but it's mostly

212
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,000
cars. You don't see really at all any

213
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,719
pedestrians in this image.

214
00:08:36,719 --> 00:08:38,719
And then and it says it's deadly. That's

215
00:08:38,719 --> 00:08:40,640
what it says here. And then this one

216
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,760
says 60 plus miles an hour. It's only

217
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,120
cars freeway style. There's a bar a

218
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,200
barrier between the two different ways

219
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,680
of of traffic. And it calls it safe as

220
00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:53,600
well. So I'm curious what the

221
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,560
commissioners think about this.

222
00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:58,160
>> I don't know what deadly means. I mean,

223
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,720
like, what does it mean there? Because

224
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,200
>> I think it's because pedestrians can

225
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,600
cross streets when traffic is going that

226
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,519
fast. And I think when you throw all

227
00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:10,640
that in and all the different turns and

228
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,269
it becomes more points of

229
00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:17,120
» you remember Troy, we were you were in

230
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,040
on it Kaden when we had the dot guy with

231
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,360
our dra that traffic thing and he talked

232
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,959
about how people are safer driving. you

233
00:09:24,959 --> 00:09:27,040
just expect to drive 60 miles an hour in

234
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:28,720
something like that. And by everybody

235
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,440
slowing down and that's the danger is no

236
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,839
one the middle ones probably really is

237
00:09:33,839 --> 00:09:36,880
because look how many cars are out like

238
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,279
look at your your just your purview like

239
00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:43,440
you couldn't keep track of all that. Is

240
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,519
that big truck going to turn? Is that

241
00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,360
somebody going to dart out there?

242
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,120
>> That's to me is just a visual thing. and

243
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,640
the other one. It seems like we're all

244
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,040
going the same direction and so we're

245
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,399
going to keep our speed at the same.

246
00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:56,080
>> The first two are fairly cropped. You

247
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,360
almost need to have it so you can see

248
00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,680
what's going on.

249
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:01,839
>> The fact that it says 30 to 50 mph gives

250
00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:04,240
you a 20 m hour buffer where the one on

251
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,240
says

252
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,160
>> they're on side walk.

253
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:09,600
>> I don't know if you've got the med in

254
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,360
the middle if people try to run and dart

255
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,920
and then stand in there and then cross.

256
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,760
>> But it's kind of hard when you just take

257
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,399
and show one lane. Yeah,

258
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:19,760
>> I would say every once in a while you

259
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,200
see someone dart out in the middle of

260
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,959
State Street like trying to cross

261
00:10:22,959 --> 00:10:24,240
without the

262
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,680
>> crosswalk or something, right? And

263
00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:27,519
you're always like, "Okay, there's

264
00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:30,240
someone crossing the road randomly."

265
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,360
But mostly you don't really see someone

266
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:34,880
darting across the road, right? you

267
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,680
would say in this case

268
00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,360
or even crossing the crosswalk at the

269
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,440
right spot in the middle. I would say

270
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,200
there's not really many pedestrians

271
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,040
walking along the roadside

272
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,600
>> in a in a environment like this.

273
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,120
>> So, are you going to tell us why one's

274
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,560
deadly or you going to wait till

275
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,387
>> somebody else have any more comments?

276
00:10:52,387 --> 00:10:54,399
[laughter]

277
00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:57,040
>> So, well, and I didn't fully prepare an

278
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,480
answer to all this. I was just wanting

279
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,399
to see your guys' opinion. I mean, so my

280
00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:02,560
opinion would be, yeah, the reason why

281
00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:04,800
this is called out as safe is because

282
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,760
drivers are expecting people on the

283
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,640
road. I mean, the speed limit is low.

284
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,079
So, that naturally brings down uh brings

285
00:11:14,079 --> 00:11:15,920
down friction between cars and

286
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,640
pedestrians. But the reason why it's low

287
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,800
is because there's street trees, there's

288
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,040
cars parked along the side, there's

289
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,240
shops here with pedestrian facing signs,

290
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:27,839
there's people on the road. They're

291
00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:29,519
you're expecting to see them because

292
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:31,680
they're always there. There's always

293
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,839
activity going on. The road also is

294
00:11:33,839 --> 00:11:36,160
designed differently than normal

295
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:37,519
pavement. It looks like it's a brick

296
00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:40,800
style design. And so as a driver, that

297
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,480
signals, oh, this road is different than

298
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,360
normal road, so I should be aware just

299
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:45,920
naturally.

300
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,000
>> You go there if you're trying to get

301
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,079
anywhere in life, you know, to avoid

302
00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:50,560
that.

303
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,560
>> Right. No, that's a great comment,

304
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:53,839
right?

305
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:55,600
>> So if you're trying to get anywhere,

306
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,920
you're here. You want to be here, right?

307
00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,839
>> If you're trying to enjoy something or

308
00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:02,399
do something else, you're here. Here,

309
00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:04,640
what are you trying to do? I mean, got

310
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,079
to go to Ross, dress for less or

311
00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:07,200
something. I don't know, right? Like,

312
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,600
there's definitely reasons you would be

313
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,880
here. And especially in the US today, we

314
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,399
have so many roads like this that we're

315
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:17,519
often here in this location. I don't

316
00:12:17,519 --> 00:12:19,120
know if we like being there, [laughter]

317
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,839
but we all go there. We all have to go

318
00:12:21,839 --> 00:12:22,959
there because a lot of things are

319
00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:26,240
designed this way. But um yeah, I would

320
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:27,519
say they're calling this one out as

321
00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:30,079
deadly because uh as a pedestrian you

322
00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:32,480
don't want to be here and as a driver

323
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:33,839
you don't want to be here and because

324
00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:34,959
there's a lot of things going on. I

325
00:12:34,959 --> 00:12:38,399
think what Suz was saying like um if you

326
00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:39,920
know

327
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,440
you would never know if someone's going

328
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,680
to dart out or something like that or

329
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,519
there's different speeds that people are

330
00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:46,880
driving. Oh, if I need to get into this

331
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,079
store all of a sudden I'm slowing down.

332
00:12:48,079 --> 00:12:49,360
I'm trying to get over to the left turn

333
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,440
lane. The car behind has to slow down.

334
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:52,800
Everybody else there's a repercussion

335
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,040
effect. I think that's why they have

336
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,440
this various this varying speed limit

337
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,079
here because roads like this often do

338
00:13:00,079 --> 00:13:03,440
vary in speeds by law, but also just by

339
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,160
how drivers drive, driver behavior.

340
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,279
People are doing different things.

341
00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:08,560
They're trying to get over. They're

342
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,240
trying to go down a different street.

343
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,720
There's so many access points. So speeds

344
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,600
just vary so often here. And so I think

345
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,000
uh both as a driver and as a pedestrian,

346
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,240
you probably don't feel the most

347
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,160
comfortable in an environment like this.

348
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,279
I don't know if the commissioners would

349
00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:27,519
agree. That'd be my take. Um, this one I

350
00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:29,040
think is said as safe, not because

351
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,480
accidents don't happen because they do

352
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,040
on roads like this, right? But, um,

353
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,760
there's no pedestrian conflict at all.

354
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,760
This is not a space for pedestrians. So,

355
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,920
you're not worried about running into

356
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,519
one unless something really uncommon or

357
00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:45,600
weird happens. Otherwise, you would

358
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,880
never see a pedestrian here. Um, I think

359
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,120
uh what someone said is there's a

360
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,279
consistent speed. You kind of expect it

361
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:57,519
to be a one speed or very close to it

362
00:13:57,519 --> 00:13:59,920
and everyone's on on your side of the

363
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,920
road is going the same way and vice

364
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,560
versa.

365
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,880
So, um, this chart just kind of breaks

366
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,040
this down one more time. So, a walkable

367
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,000
street, an urban arterial, which we have

368
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,560
Alpine Highway, Canyon Crest, and I

369
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,880
think going up Heel Boulevard are the

370
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,440
three arterial roads in our city. Um,

371
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,800
and then we have a freeway. And so,

372
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,199
pedestrians here, common, possible,

373
00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:30,399
none. Lots of cross traffic in both of

374
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:34,959
these, but none here. driveways a lot

375
00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:38,720
and none or very few maybe but and then

376
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,519
vehicles common. Vehicles turning across

377
00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:44,079
traffic common and common very rare for

378
00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:47,440
a freeway. Opposing traffic is close by

379
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,279
or often close by with these two and

380
00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:50,560
then physically separated with the

381
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,600
freeway. Speed variation low for a

382
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,680
street. You're probably going about 10

383
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,160
to 20 miles an hour no matter what. And

384
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,920
you expect that with a pedestrian style

385
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,720
street. This one's a not uncommon

386
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,320
variation because people are always

387
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,079
shifting or the speed limit might

388
00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:09,279
actually change by law. And then this is

389
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,360
low as well and relatively predictable.

390
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,440
We all know the freeway 70 miles an hour

391
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,839
even if we all drive 80 or something.

392
00:15:15,839 --> 00:15:18,560
And then access on these two is high

393
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,839
speed limit or freeway is controlled.

394
00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:23,279
So one thing I thought I think is

395
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:24,880
interesting about this chart too is look

396
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,480
how many uh the 50 mph and 30 and 50

397
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,800
have in common. Lots lots. Mini mini

398
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,959
common common close by close by high.

399
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:36,880
So you can see that these two different

400
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,680
designs of roads have so many common

401
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,360
elements but they feel so different and

402
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,800
they don't and this one feels safe and

403
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,320
this one feels not as safe. Interesting.

404
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,519
I just think it's an interesting thing

405
00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:52,320
to think about.

406
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,959
>> And I put it in Claude said gave me the

407
00:15:54,959 --> 00:15:58,000
uh kinetic energy square velocity.

408
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,600
>> Okay. The main reason is the one on the

409
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,040
left is safe is because you're going 15

410
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,000
miles per hour.

411
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:02,240
>> Okay.

412
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,680
>> The reason the one in the middle isn't

413
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,759
because you got variation of speed and

414
00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:09,360
it's main definition was uh high speed

415
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,240
mixed with high complexity

416
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,680
definition with complexity.

417
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,519
>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I have here

418
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:16,880
exactly. Thanks for saying that, Greg.

419
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,959
So the 3050 is the dangerous middle

420
00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:21,040
because it combines relatively high

421
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,120
speeds with lots of potential conflict

422
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,600
points. So, if someone's pulling out of

423
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,639
a driveway to a 30 to 50 mph arterial

424
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:30,240
road, you can see this car is zooming

425
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,560
down here and you're trying to pull out.

426
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,399
Um, high chance because you're just

427
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:35,759
trying to pick up your speed. If you're

428
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:37,440
this car, high chance, and this is kind

429
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,560
of backwards. I should be going this

430
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:39,279
way.

431
00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:41,360
>> But, um, high chance that this car is

432
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,199
going fast and you're just

433
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:45,199
>> you're just getting going. And you know,

434
00:16:45,199 --> 00:16:48,480
my my wife is was going to this school

435
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,240
on State Street in Orum and you had to

436
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,000
kind of it kind of felt awkward even to

437
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,199
pull in because you had to pull off into

438
00:16:55,199 --> 00:16:57,360
the shoulder and then inch your way in

439
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,120
after you were going like 45 miles an

440
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,519
hour and then pulling out was even worse

441
00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:03,519
because the street allowed street

442
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:05,439
parking all the way along the road in

443
00:17:05,439 --> 00:17:07,280
the shoulder. So you first you couldn't

444
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,600
see and then when you finally get out to

445
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,400
the the actual lane of road the car is

446
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,400
going 45 miles an hour or whatever and

447
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,079
so then you have to you hope that no

448
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,079
one's there and and then zoom up and

449
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:20,160
catch up with traffic. And that's the

450
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,319
nature of roads like State Street is

451
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,240
there's so much as it says here

452
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,400
potential conflict points but also high

453
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,400
speeds that it creates that environment

454
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,080
where we just feel like I'm in a car I

455
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,080
feel like sometimes I'm not safe and as

456
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,360
a pedestrian I definitely don't feel

457
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:37,120
safe either. Right? So I just have this

458
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,559
part. Don't look at speed limits in

459
00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:40,160
isolation.

460
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,679
Look at whether the physical design of

461
00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:44,720
the road matches the speed. And the

462
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,640
reason why I think I've this has been on

463
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:47,760
my mind and I even thought about this

464
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:48,960
presentation today is because we've had

465
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,720
this conversation often and I I think

466
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,160
Troy and um Suz were there at our at our

467
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,480
conversation about traffic with two

468
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,039
council members and Andy Spencer or was

469
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:00,160
it three council members? I can't

470
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,360
remember. Um, yeah. And so, and there

471
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:04,799
was like a lot of discussion about this,

472
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:05,840
like there were some council members

473
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,360
that were really pushing to lower the

474
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:08,880
speed limit on Main Street here in our

475
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,960
city or lower the speed limit on Canyon

476
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,160
Crest or something like that because

477
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,520
people drive too fast, right? And I was

478
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:16,799
listening to that and I was like, well,

479
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:18,799
really like what slows people down is

480
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:21,120
street design. It's not posted speed

481
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,120
limit. It's how you feel as you go,

482
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:26,000
right? And so if you feel safe going 45

483
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,320
on Canyon Crest, the only thing stopping

484
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,559
you is if you happen to notice or

485
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:32,160
there's a police officer there or

486
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,919
something like that, right? Um so uh I

487
00:18:35,919 --> 00:18:37,840
think just some fun food for thought to

488
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,480
think about as we consider great uh

489
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,160
planning as the planning commission

490
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,039
team. Um so yeah, so a 50 mph road

491
00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:46,640
designed like a freeway can function

492
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,000
relatively safely. So, a lot of people

493
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,320
think high speed less safe, but what

494
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,799
we've just looked at, uh, high speed

495
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:54,960
doesn't necessarily have to be unsafe.

496
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,400
It just depends on how the road's

497
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,840
designed, right? A 35 a 35 mph road

498
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,039
designed like a city street, but

499
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:03,200
carrying freeway like traffic can be

500
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,520
extremely problematic.

501
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,520
Um, so now I'll just jump over to my

502
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:08,799
presentation which I actually put in and

503
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:10,080
I I won't go through this whole thing

504
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,520
because I really wanted to just focus on

505
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,200
a few slides here and it was more for

506
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,240
you to just kind of kind of have uh some

507
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,720
fun like thinking about street design.

508
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,919
So um so the purpose of this exploration

509
00:19:21,919 --> 00:19:23,760
was just to use our imagination to think

510
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,679
about what we have versus what could be

511
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:29,200
with street design. Right? So here's a

512
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,520
just a screenshot of Pleasant Grove

513
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:32,799
State Stage Street really close to where

514
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:36,400
I live. Um, so you look at this road and

515
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,480
think about how you feel as a driver

516
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,720
going down this road. Uh, think about

517
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,640
how you feel as someone walking on that

518
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,760
sidewalk right there or or a cyclist on

519
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,880
the shoulder. There's no designated uh,

520
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,520
bike lane there, but probably people

521
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,360
would drive down that or ride down that

522
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,520
shoulder there on a bike. So, it's

523
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:56,880
funny. I brought up this image with

524
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,840
Andrew Young and Sarah Blackwell in just

525
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,760
a private meeting we had here last week

526
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,559
and they were laughing and joking about

527
00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:06,880
how when you see someone like walking on

528
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,440
the sidewalk right here, you like Andrew

529
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,600
was saying that oh wow like when

530
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,120
someone's walking there you feel like oh

531
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:14,640
do you need a ride like can I pick you

532
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,880
up and take you somewhere? which I

533
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,400
thought was a really interesting

534
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,480
observation because it's it's true.

535
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,320
Usually on a road like this that's

536
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,960
designed more toward leans towards cars

537
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,679
and less towards people. Someone is out

538
00:20:27,679 --> 00:20:30,480
there on their feet, you feel like, hey

539
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,080
buddy, do you need help? Like I can help

540
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,520
you out or something like that, right?

541
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,360
You shouldn't be out here not in a

542
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,679
vehicle, not in two tons of steel. So

543
00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:41,840
let me help you out, right? Um, so I

544
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,159
aied this image just to kind of give us

545
00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:46,559
an idea of, oh, okay, what would it feel

546
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:48,400
like if this road was a little bit more

547
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,720
designed towards people riding a bike or

548
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,240
walking?

549
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,159
And obviously this is AI as you see

550
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:56,000
these medians don't line up. This should

551
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,280
be down here more or something, right?

552
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,760
But um, but I just think this is

553
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,080
interesting. you look at this other

554
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,000
road, which is the exact same road, and

555
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,960
you feel like, wow, if I was a if I was

556
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,080
a pedestrian or riding my bike, and that

557
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,280
second image, I would feel fine if I had

558
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,919
that dedicated bike lane.

559
00:21:15,919 --> 00:21:18,159
Um, or if I was walking along that

560
00:21:18,159 --> 00:21:19,840
sidewalk, which is a little bit wider

561
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,840
than the first image. It was widened to

562
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,039
make it feel a little bit more

563
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:26,320
comfortable for someone using it.

564
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:27,679
Um, so

565
00:21:27,679 --> 00:21:32,400
>> that first image feels like 50. The

566
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,159
second image feels like 3540, you know.

567
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:37,039
>> Yeah.

568
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:38,640
>> Like it just feels like Yeah.

569
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,000
>> Sidewalk makes you feel safer. That

570
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,240
little bike lane bike lane is bike lane

571
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,880
is an absolute buffer. Even I mean it's

572
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,400
just visually you're looking at that

573
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,440
going, "Oh, I could walk on that

574
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:50,880
sidewalk because I got some space

575
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,320
between me and the cars."

576
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:52,720
>> Yeah.

577
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,720
>> It feels a lot. Anyway,

578
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,640
>> yeah. did a good job on that.

579
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,000
>> Yeah. And if you're riding, you're like,

580
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,400
"Oh, I I totally feel comfortable, you

581
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,120
know, using this as like a training a

582
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,400
training trail for me as as a cyclist or

583
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,679
whatever." Right.

584
00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:09,760
>> Um, so I thought that was interesting.

585
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,440
Anyone else have thoughts about this

586
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,280
before I move on to the next one?

587
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,480
>> It'd be interesting to know the

588
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,039
difference in cost.

589
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:18,720
>> That that's always the question too,

590
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:19,760
right? With city

591
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:20,640
>> one on the right.

592
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:21,360
>> Yeah.

593
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:23,919
>> Pay for how wide of a road you have. We

594
00:22:23,919 --> 00:22:25,200
couldn't do that on Main Street. We'd

595
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,039
love it, but we just don't have the

596
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:28,400
space. We'd be

597
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,320
>> I think that's your next slide. The

598
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,919
picture was taken at the widest part of

599
00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:32,880
Main Street.

600
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,000
>> Problem.

601
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,799
>> When I drive home on Alpine Highway, I

602
00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:38,799
always think about why do I feel like

603
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:40,880
I'm going slower here than I'm going

604
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,440
faster there. And you try to put what is going on in the streetscape,

605
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:45,679
right?

606
00:22:45,679 --> 00:22:47,919
>> But Highland has put those medians,

607
00:22:47,919 --> 00:22:50,960
>> but their medians south of the Al of the

608
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,440
Tempogus Highway. they have kept

609
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,919
manicured and the trees are big and as

610
00:22:55,919 --> 00:22:57,200
the trees are getting bigger and the

611
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,000
side trees are getting bigger the the

612
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,440
street is shrinking.

613
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:01,679
>> Yeah.

614
00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:04,159
>> And you feel it and so I feel like I go

615
00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:06,080
slower on the alpine highway south the

616
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,919
tip highway then you go north.

617
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:08,480
>> Oh

618
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,080
>> because north they've let all of their

619
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,559
planters die in some all the trees are

620
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:13,280
dead

621
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,200
>> because they're hard to manage. Yeah.

622
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,120
They take water. They They go out and

623
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:20,159
spray that crappy herbicide that's that

624
00:23:20,159 --> 00:23:22,080
yellow bright yellow. Think we're all

625
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,919
going to die the day they spray it.

626
00:23:23,919 --> 00:23:24,480
>> Yeah.

627
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,400
>> Because it leaves the rocks and but

628
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,320
they're hard to maintain. And so they

629
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,480
have maintained their south

630
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,120
>> of the Tim Highway. And so I think

631
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,360
that's part of the reason people speed

632
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,760
up on the north side of the Temp Highway

633
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,320
is because it's open again.

634
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,799
>> There's no trees that are closing it in.

635
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:46,320
It's wider and the are just the little

636
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,640
shrubs because the trees are gone. So I

637
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,120
think that's part of the two sides of

638
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,840
the alpine highway and south of Tim.

639
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:54,400
>> I love that.

640
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,240
>> I think can crrest the problem you're

641
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,159
never going to solve is the hill

642
00:23:58,159 --> 00:24:00,559
>> because everybody accelerates when you

643
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:01,440
see the hill

644
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,120
>> and when you accelerate because you're

645
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,120
seeing the hill all of a sudden your

646
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:06,720
speed is just up.

647
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,159
>> I don't know if there's anything you can

648
00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:10,080
do just because it's a topograph

649
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,840
topography kind of thing

650
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:12,960
>> and that's part of dealing with this

651
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,799
too. Topography is definitely a factor.

652
00:24:14,799 --> 00:24:17,840
>> I think that's the CN crest problem is

653
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,080
just, you know, you accelerate because

654
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,799
you see a hill. Oh, I better accelerate

655
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:25,919
and so and then smack your your fast.

656
00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:26,960
So, my two

657
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,120
>> Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that.

658
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,159
Anybody else? That was great.

659
00:24:32,159 --> 00:24:34,640
>> Yeah. No, I agree. I I think the image

660
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,559
on the right we like because it feels

661
00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:38,240
good. It feels comfortable. Especially

662
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,919
if you're outside of your car, right?

663
00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:41,520
You're like, "Oh, I I feel fine." Even

664
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,600
though I can tell cars are moving pretty

665
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,840
swiftly right next to me, I feel I feel

666
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,720
fine. Um, that doesn't mean it's uh

667
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,039
cheaper as we just mentioned and it

668
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:52,640
doesn't mean again it's easier to it's

669
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,240
easier to ma manage or maintain, right?

670
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,159
It's just this is all just about street

671
00:24:58,159 --> 00:25:01,440
design and and how it affects speeding

672
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,360
and and pedestrian life on the street,

673
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:07,919
right? Or on the road. Okay. So, yeah,

674
00:25:07,919 --> 00:25:09,600
we saw this one for our street, too. So,

675
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,600
I think here's our main street and and

676
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,840
like Greg said, this is the really wide

677
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,360
shoulder down by the clock tower. Um,

678
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,360
which when I first started working for

679
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,320
the city just a few months ago, I was

680
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,400
like, "Wow, this is a really awesome

681
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,200
opportunity space. Like, this is really

682
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,960
wide, especially right here. Like, this

683
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,559
could this could something could be done

684
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:30,640
here that could make the main street

685
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,120
really active or really great." Right

686
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,640
now, it's just a really wide shoulder

687
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,159
that really doesn't serve any purpose,

688
00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:37,360
right? because I don't know if enough

689
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,919
people even park there to to justify how

690
00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:41,360
wide that is. Right.

691
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,279
>> Does the charter school use the space?

692
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:45,440
Uh it seems like they're using the space

693
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,440
right now for turning right. So if

694
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,039
you're to do something there like a bike

695
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:50,640
lane or something else, you can put all

696
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,039
that traffic on one lane.

697
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:55,919
>> So you compound traffic significantly, I

698
00:25:55,919 --> 00:25:57,120
guess.

699
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:57,600
>> Yeah.

700
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,120
>> But then when I left, I noticed they

701
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:02,000
were uh seem to be trying to do a better

702
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,120
job. And I don't know if it's because of

703
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,200
the barricade you put up. It seems like

704
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,960
the teachers are parking in the dirt

705
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:07,520
field.

706
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:08,000
>> Yes.

707
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,080
>> And today I noticed that to keep the

708
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,520
traffic down, they were all in this lane

709
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,039
over here on the left hand side.

710
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:16,080
>> Yes.

711
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,080
>> For their kids to cross that way now.

712
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,840
>> But there's still parents that park over

713
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:20,720
here [clears throat] where people are

714
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,039
waiting and dumping their kids off.

715
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:24,480
>> Yeah. Right here. Especially this

716
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,520
shoulder. I think I've seen this

717
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,000
shoulder backed up to about here from

718
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,960
the school which is way down that way.

719
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,480
But yeah, people definitely are using

720
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,480
that shoulder on this side.

721
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,159
Um, yeah, and that's a complicated

722
00:26:36,159 --> 00:26:37,200
question, right? We're not going to

723
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,320
analyze how uh a better designed street

724
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,840
will affect the parking of the school

725
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,080
today, but that's something that

726
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,679
obviously needs to be taken into

727
00:26:45,679 --> 00:26:47,919
consideration if ever action was was

728
00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:50,880
taken to to do something, right? But,

729
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,240
um, okay. So, if you haven't seen this

730
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,320
image, uh, get ready, buckle up. So,

731
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,840
again, this is just an AI generated

732
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,440
image, so it's not perfect. The person

733
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,440
has the bike lane on the left side

734
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,640
pointing the other way and they're

735
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,400
coming towards us. But um so

736
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,840
tell me about what you think about this image here and what do you think it

737
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:12,480
>> it's great

738
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,200
>> means for the main streets

739
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,640
feel like speeding down.

740
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,200
>> This looks like Holiday and Mil Creek.

741
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,000
>> That's what we should have. Man, let's

742
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,799
>> raise our tax.

743
00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:29,679
>> Yeah. And I just think wedged over that

744
00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:30,960
same teeny tiny.

745
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,200
>> What's the double yellow? Uh, is that

746
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,120
>> Yeah, I think that's just an AI error as

747
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,440
well. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was

748
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,760
thinking this was a two-way. But anyway,

749
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,520
we all know this is the one. This goes

750
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,120
this way and this comes towards us.

751
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,080
>> Yeah. Some little med. But I think I

752
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,360
think the good thing about that it threw

753
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,919
this in here is like a narrow lane like

754
00:27:51,919 --> 00:27:56,080
this is ideal for a main street.

755
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:56,399
>> Yeah.

756
00:27:56,399 --> 00:27:58,080
>> Because that also contributes to slower

757
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:58,559
speeds.

758
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:00,080
>> This is basically what the plan

759
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,039
suggested.

760
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:01,840
>> Mhm.

761
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:02,799
>> Right.

762
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:05,279
>> To slow them down before they get to the

763
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:07,520
yellow.

764
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,080
>> Yes. Don't we love those? They're

765
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,159
beautiful out there. Right. But they're

766
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:13,440
kind of serving the purpose that a

767
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,919
medium like this would. Right. um which

768
00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:18,720
is much more aesthetically pleasing.

769
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,720
>> Um

770
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,720
>> tell me what you think. Tell me how you

771
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,159
feel or what you would think about

772
00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:28,080
standing like standing right here versus

773
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,520
standing right here if you're just on

774
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:30,240
your feet.

775
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,440
>> Safer obviously.

776
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,080
>> Yeah.

777
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,399
Want to spend a little the right

778
00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:39,200
one is just more inviting to foot

779
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,919
traffic. And you know, my office is in

780
00:28:41,919 --> 00:28:44,640
downtown Holiday and that's this is what

781
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,240
it looks like and and so there's lots

782
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,679
more foot traffic in that area.

783
00:28:51,679 --> 00:28:53,279
>> Yeah. Yeah. It feels like you want to go

784
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:54,799
downtown.

785
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:55,600
>> Yeah.

786
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:56,399
>> Exactly.

787
00:28:56,399 --> 00:28:58,000
>> You need to have something downtown. You

788
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:58,720
want to go to

789
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,159
>> Oh, that's true.

790
00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:03,360
>> Go to the dentist.

791
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:04,000
>> Exercise.

792
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,200
>> Go to the dentist.

793
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,559
>> The printing press museum.

794
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:08,960
>> Yeah. In the printing press museum.

795
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,870
never.

796
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,000
» It's true though. No,

797
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,440
>> I like that point though. Like that's

798
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,320
obviously part of creating an active uh

799
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,080
friendly main street is have

800
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:22,960
destinations, right?

801
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,760
>> Yeah. Holiday has lots of restaurants in

802
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:26,640
downtown.

803
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:27,120
>> Yeah.

804
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,200
>> And they have a Harmons and

805
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,720
>> Yes,

806
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,880
>> they have lots of good restaurants right

807
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,080
by our office.

808
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:56,710
>> Yeah. They have Takaria 27.

809
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:03,110
No.

810
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,159
» So

811
00:30:04,159 --> 00:30:06,240
>> yeah, but you still [snorts]

812
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,120
make it inviting

813
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,279
>> and look good and then

814
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:13,679
>> maybe that's the impetus

815
00:30:13,679 --> 00:30:19,830
>> for something in the future

816
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,840
» well

817
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,520
>> if the environment was cool enough I

818
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:24,480
think

819
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:25,679
>> people would come

820
00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:31,840
>> it could it could be you know it could be if there was if this was

821
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,679
what it looked like

822
00:30:33,679 --> 00:30:36,559
>> and there was foot more foot traffic

823
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:39,360
down there.

824
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,159
One one business might lead to two,

825
00:30:42,159 --> 00:30:44,720
might lead to three. I mean, like in

826
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,720
downtown Holiday, they all just didn't

827
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:47,919
come at the same time.

828
00:30:47,919 --> 00:30:48,320
>> Right.

829
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,240
They didn't go, "Oh, we're all

830
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,240
going to go." No, they came one at a

831
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,240
time. And now it's really nice.

832
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,080
>> I think it's relatively close to ours.

833
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,399
>> It's pretty close to ours.

834
00:31:00,399 --> 00:31:02,320
>> Maybe 10,000 more. I don't know, but it

835
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,600
might even be that many. It

836
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,440
>> might be up to 20,000. I'm not sure

837
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,880
though exactly,

838
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,880
>> but I mean I think Allan brought it up

839
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,520
last time with detach because he was

840
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,679
saying it was so similar to

841
00:31:15,679 --> 00:31:16,159
>> Yeah.

842
00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:23,510
>> Alpine in that way.

843
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:24,559
» 31,000.

844
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:26,159
>> Oh, it says 31,000.

845
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:27,919
>> Yeah, it's like three times.

846
00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:32,950
>> So, it's three times our size. Yeah.

847
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,480
36.

848
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,360
>> Okay.

849
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:36,720
>> So, basically three times.

850
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440
>> So, it's three times our size. Yeah.

851
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,120
>> But yeah, I mean, if you can imagine

852
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,039
like let's think what's the snow cone

853
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:44,399
place that all the kids love going to

854
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:44,880
right over here.

855
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:45,519
>> Snowasis.

856
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:46,320
>> Snow Aces.

857
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,320
>> Yeah. What if Snow Oasis was like in the

858
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,519
middle of this right here?

859
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:50,399
>> Used to be

860
00:31:50,399 --> 00:31:51,760
>> It used to It used to be down.

861
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,360
>> If it looked like this, I think that

862
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:54,159
would

863
00:31:54,159 --> 00:31:54,480
>> Yeah,

864
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,440
>> there would definitely be a lot of

865
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,600
people there, right?

866
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,000
>> Yeah. So I think once you have one

867
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,679
business that people want

868
00:32:01,679 --> 00:32:04,799
>> because Mike Mike didn't Mike didn't

869
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:24,470
want it right there.

870
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,600
» Yeah.

871
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,360
So, if you had this and you had

872
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,200
dedicated bike lanes, like let's imagine

873
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,880
this image doesn't show it, but what if

874
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,159
this was a little bit more ice separated

875
00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:37,120
from traffic, it had like a a raised

876
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,039
curb or something or just a different

877
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:41,200
like maybe this is painted all green or

878
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,799
something like that that made it even a

879
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:44,399
little bit safer for the rider.

880
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:44,799
>> Yeah.

881
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:46,240
>> The kids were like, "Mom, I'm going down

882
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,840
to Snow Oasis down in the center of

883
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,120
town." And they'd ride down here and

884
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,720
come up in this pedestrian area like

885
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,720
>> should be on the sidewalk anyways, not

886
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,880
in a bike lane.

887
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,200
But if it was dedicated bike, I don't

888
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,240
know if parents would be that as

889
00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,840
nervous, right?

890
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,200
>> So, it's all about design. That's all

891
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,399
I'm trying to say. It is all about

892
00:33:02,399 --> 00:33:04,000
design.

893
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,389
>> But I think they're crazy.

894
00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:09,600
» Yeah.

895
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,360
>> They're confusing.

896
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,480
>> No, they're not.

897
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:13,120
>> They are.

898
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,600
>> They're like everywhere in Europe.

899
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:16,960
>> Yeah.

900
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,120
>> In a lot of places back east. We don't

901
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,320
>> we have to just get used to them.

902
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,840
>> We don't have them here.

903
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,720
>> Yeah. And I mean, again, it's not so

904
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,000
much about the color, I would think. I

905
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,279
mean, that's the universal color for

906
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:29,360
bikes now, I think, here. But it's about

907
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,279
the difference in appearance, I think,

908
00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:33,120
for drivers that can help slow people

909
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,039
down. Um, yeah. So, those were kind of

910
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:36,000
the main things I want to talk about.

911
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,519
Here's like, so the rest of these

912
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:38,880
images, I'll just let you guys can kind

913
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,159
of look at them as you want and think

914
00:33:40,159 --> 00:33:41,840
about why does this work? Why is this

915
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:42,559
good?

916
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:44,480
>> I liked this crosswalk.

917
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:44,720
>> Yeah.

918
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,320
>> Like, you think about this like how many

919
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:47,600
people do you think have died crossing

920
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,679
this crosswalk? Probably

921
00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:51,600
>> none. [laughter]

922
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,919
very few, right? Because like there's

923
00:33:53,919 --> 00:33:56,720
this pedestrian island here.

924
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,120
>> Again, landscaping. I just think the

925
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,279
cars signaled there's different material

926
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:03,440
here for the the brick here versus the

927
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,960
concrete here. So,

928
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,640
>> drivers are just kind of signaled, oh, I

929
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,000
got to go slow just in case someone's

930
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,280
crossing. Right.

931
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,879
>> Imagine something like that or even just

932
00:34:10,879 --> 00:34:13,119
like a red brick crosswalk going even

933
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:14,560
going across this whole entire width

934
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,040
right here.

935
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:15,839
>> Yeah.

936
00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:17,440
>> If it was a different material like a

937
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,800
red brick or something, people would

938
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,240
slow down as well. that would cause

939
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:21,359
people to slow down driving.

940
00:34:21,359 --> 00:34:21,919
>> Yeah.

941
00:34:21,919 --> 00:34:23,599
>> Anyway, so that was my presentation for

942
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:25,359
today. I just wanted to have a little uh

943
00:34:25,359 --> 00:34:26,399
discussion about that.

944
00:34:26,399 --> 00:34:27,760
>> Thank you.

945
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,829
>> Yeah, good job.

946
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:33,200
» Okay.

947
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,359
So, we'll move on to action items

948
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:38,079
and we

949
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:40,960
hopefully we can finalize our

950
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,599
recommendation for ADUs. So, do you want

951
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:47,520
to give us some update, Kaden?

952
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,240
>> Okay. So, um I think [snorts]

953
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:54,159
not sure if everyone knows we had a

954
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:56,800
discussion about ADUs last week with the

955
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,839
city council. Um I think it was because

956
00:34:59,839 --> 00:35:01,440
it was anticipated that the planning

957
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,040
commission was going to approve it last

958
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,839
week or the week before and so we were

959
00:35:05,839 --> 00:35:09,920
just preparing the the city council for that discussion and since it was

960
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,200
already on the schedule, we had that

961
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,359
discussion anyway. With our deadline

962
00:35:13,359 --> 00:35:14,640
approaching, we figured it was still

963
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,079
good to do. So um there were there were

964
00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:20,560
different recommendations from them as

965
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,359
well that we tried to implement in an

966
00:35:23,359 --> 00:35:27,599
updated code here. Um, so here's the

967
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:28,880
state requirements that we've already

968
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,599
talked about

969
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:35,440
and um, so what kind of happened is they

970
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,000
gave some recommendations alongside what

971
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,760
you as the planning commissioners gave

972
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,119
last meeting [snorts]

973
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:42,880
and we tried to find a happy medium

974
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,200
between the two as well as staff

975
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,040
analysis. Um, and if there was like two

976
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,320
of the three, the planning commission

977
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,760
and the city council wanted something,

978
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,480
that's what I have in here. If it was

979
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,839
staff and the planning commission,

980
00:35:55,839 --> 00:35:57,040
that's what I have in here. If it was

981
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,400
staff and the city council, that's what

982
00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,359
I have in here. So, there's some things

983
00:35:59,359 --> 00:36:01,280
you'll recognize are the same as what

984
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,880
you recommended last time. There might

985
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,800
be some things that have changed. Um, so

986
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,040
let's just go over it, I guess. Um, so

987
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,359
we have

988
00:36:11,359 --> 00:36:13,200
the ADU code language. So, we still have

989
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,040
the definition for detached ADU, and

990
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,040
then we have the definition for living

991
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,680
area. So, I know last time we talked

992
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,079
about doing footprint instead of living

993
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:23,839
area.

994
00:36:23,839 --> 00:36:27,599
um the council, the few I think there

995
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:29,040
was three that reached out to me after

996
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:30,880
our discussion because we ended abruptly

997
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,079
so they weren't all able to give their

998
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:34,560
input, but but all three of them favored

999
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,839
living area over footprint. Um just so

1000
00:36:37,839 --> 00:36:41,520
you're aware. Uh and I think as staff, I

1001
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:42,800
don't want to speak for Jason, but for

1002
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,440
me, I think that still makes more sense

1003
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,599
to me. um just because I I don't want um

1004
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:52,800
someone with a larger building to have

1005
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,560
trouble converting that into an ADU and

1006
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,160
instead have to build another building

1007
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,119
to put an ADU in um if they're over the

1008
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,520
allotted footprint square footage. So to

1009
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,920
me that made more sense, but again it's

1010
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,000
up to you to to go back to footprint if

1011
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,839
you would like to. Um we have the

1012
00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:12,320
purpose statement that was asked for by

1013
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,480
the commission. Um, so we said the

1014
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,920
accessory dwelling units are meant to

1015
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,440
assist in the creation of new housing

1016
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,520
units, support a more efficient use of

1017
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:20,560
existing housing stock and

1018
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,640
infrastructure, and provide housing that

1019
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,720
responds to changing family needs,

1020
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:26,079
smaller households, and increasing

1021
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:28,240
housing costs while maintaining the

1022
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:29,599
residential character of existing

1023
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:31,040
neighborhoods and minimizing impacts on

1024
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,520
adjacent properties.

1025
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:34,720
So that's what we have for the purpose

1026
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:38,000
statement. We can reword that if you

1027
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,440
would you think we should. Um, okay.

1028
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,119
And then so this was just some

1029
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,119
added language here just to describe

1030
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:47,680
it's also detached now as part of the

1031
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,520
definition of what accessory dwelling

1032
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,320
unit is in the paragraph.

1033
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,640
This was moved down to here uh for

1034
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,400
internal accessory dwelling units. We

1035
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,359
added the word internal there.

1036
00:37:59,359 --> 00:38:02,000
Remembered everything here from letters

1037
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,666
to numbers. Um and then

1038
00:38:04,666 --> 00:38:05,040
[clears throat and snorts] we just

1039
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,800
changed a few words around here. If a

1040
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,480
lot or parcel already has a detached

1041
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,480
accessory dwelling unit, no internal

1042
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,720
accessory dwelling unit will be allowed.

1043
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,720
So if you recall, the state is

1044
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:17,839
permitting municipalities to restrict ad

1045
00:38:17,839 --> 00:38:20,480
use to one per property. And so that was

1046
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,040
our I think the consensus among all

1047
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,480
three of us, all three of our bodies

1048
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,240
that we think that probably is the best

1049
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:28,240
for our city.

1050
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:31,440
Um, we added this after a discussion

1051
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,280
with with you guys last time that an

1052
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,040
internal accessory dwelling unit may not

1053
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,400
be rented or offered for rent for a

1054
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,480
period of less than 90 consecutive days.

1055
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,960
So, it has that 90-day limit there or uh

1056
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,680
threshold there.

1057
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,160
Um, and then we added this paragraph as

1058
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,480
number 11 as well. So each year, the

1059
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:49,920
property owner of a lot or parcel with

1060
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,680
an accessory dwelling unit must fill out

1061
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,920
the ADU registration or rental license

1062
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,200
renewal form provided by us. To certify

1063
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,400
it remains in compliance with the

1064
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,880
requirements of this chapter. If the

1065
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,800
dwelling unit is rented or offered for

1066
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,240
rent, the property owner shall pay the

1067
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,280
rental license fee and then no fee is

1068
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,440
required if it's not offered for rent or

1069
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,000
rented.

1070
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,200
So, we just wanted to make that clear

1071
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,440
for property owners that that will be

1072
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,359
required every year. And kind of one of

1073
00:39:17,359 --> 00:39:18,800
the other main reasons we need this

1074
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,480
paragraph is because that's how we can

1075
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,640
submit for moderate income housing to

1076
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,320
the state which we have to comply with

1077
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,040
every year.

1078
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:25,440
>> Okay.

1079
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,839
>> And having that rental license renewal

1080
00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:30,160
form slash the ADU registration form

1081
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,160
that helps us know who's doing it in the

1082
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,040
city.

1083
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,480
>> Obviously, not everyone will fill that

1084
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,480
out, but we hope everyone will.

1085
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,560
>> Did that language come from another

1086
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,079
city?

1087
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:43,440
No, it came from just what we already do

1088
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,160
currently with the ADU registration.

1089
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,079
>> And then we just added rental license

1090
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:51,200
renewal as well since uh we want to make

1091
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,599
it clear and and Mara can correct me

1092
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:56,480
too. Um what we do already is people

1093
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,599
renew every January. And so they they're

1094
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:02,079
supposed to call in or confirm with her

1095
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:04,240
from the mail she sends out every

1096
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:05,119
January,

1097
00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:05,440
>> okay,

1098
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,200
>> that they continue to have that rental

1099
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:07,599
unit.

1100
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:10,640
>> Okay. So we already kind of existed in

1101
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:11,760
our code

1102
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:12,800
>> essentially. Yes.

1103
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,960
>> Yeah. We're just making it totally

1104
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,520
clear. Uh and this is a copy paste in

1105
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,680
the detach down here as well which

1106
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,240
you'll see.

1107
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:20,640
>> Okay.

1108
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,680
>> Just so it's consistent.

1109
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,480
>> Okay. So now the detach ADU code.

1110
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,310
>> Yes.

1111
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,000
» Additional infrastructure cost.

1112
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,119
Is that true?

1113
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:36,880
>> From what I understand, yes, that is

1114
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,599
true. Yeah, we and I think there's no

1115
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:42,480
way we can

1116
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:52,870
require that.

1117
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,280
» Additional units.

1118
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,200
Yeah, we definitely looked into impact

1119
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,599
fees and if we could charge impact fees

1120
00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:02,560
for detached ADUs and from what I

1121
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,760
remember we we cannot. So yeah, please

1122
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,200
look that up because I think we

1123
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,560
definitely would like to if we can. So

1124
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,720
yeah. Okay. Um Okay. So the detachu code

1125
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:16,400
which we've which we've looked at but

1126
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,240
this is the refined version we have for

1127
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:22,880
today. TBD by by you all of course. So,

1128
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,640
um, number one, they're permitted use in

1129
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,880
the zone. Number two, they shall be a

1130
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,560
minimum of 300, which we talked about

1131
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,200
last time, and maybe a maximum according

1132
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,440
to the table below.

1133
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,280
So, we talked about last time, and there

1134
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,520
were some that agree and some that

1135
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,040
disagree in the city council that we

1136
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,040
should allow less than 11,000, just so

1137
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,280
you know. But ultimately, since the

1138
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,520
commissioners thought it was good, and

1139
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,839
to be frank, I thought it was good too,

1140
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:49,599
we left that in there for now. That will

1141
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:52,079
allow any law um to also have one as

1142
00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:52,960
long as they can meet these

1143
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,359
requirements. Okay.

1144
00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:58,000
>> So, less than 10,000 is 800, 10 to 20 is

1145
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,040
900, 20 to 40,000, and 40,000 plus is

1146
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,720
1,200.

1147
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:04,720
>> And as you can see, that's living area

1148
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:07,839
is what we have right now.

1149
00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:09,599
Okay. Okay, number three is just the

1150
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:11,440
requirement for owner occupancy with all

1151
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,280
the stipulations for that. So basically

1152
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,520
just saying an owner occupied uh

1153
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,119
property has to uh is the only one

1154
00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:21,839
that's allowed to have an ADU. Uh number

1155
00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:24,319
four is the addition or establishment of

1156
00:42:24,319 --> 00:42:27,359
an ADU shall not cause the aggregate

1157
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:28,960
building coverage of all permanent

1158
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,520
structures on the lot to exceed the

1159
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,640
following. So less than 10 is 35, 10 to

1160
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,319
20 is 30, 20 to 40 is 25, 40 plus is 22.

1161
00:42:38,319 --> 00:42:40,079
And I think this is exactly what the

1162
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:42,160
commissioners recommended last time.

1163
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,800
>> So that has carried over. Um, one thing

1164
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,960
I think we will want clarification on

1165
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,560
one more time is just what permanent

1166
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,960
structures will entail.

1167
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,400
Um, I think with the holiday code saying

1168
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,240
not including pools or ponds or

1169
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:00,560
something that we looked at last time

1170
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,640
and then I think with how long the

1171
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,880
motion was, it just didn't come out in a

1172
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,800
way like as clear I think as we wanted

1173
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,880
it to be. So I think that is one thing

1174
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,480
we'll want to clarify from you today.

1175
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,079
What you think that should be. Should it

1176
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:16,400
be the main dwelling and the ADU or

1177
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,520
should it be any structure that's a

1178
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,160
permanent structure on the property?

1179
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,560
which would include, you know, the pool,

1180
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,200
tennis courts, pickle ball courts,

1181
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,640
anything like that, any accessory

1182
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:29,440
building.

1183
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,000
>> Point of clarification, internal, you

1184
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,040
cannot charge impact fees. ADUs that are

1185
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:36,720
not attached that are detached, you can

1186
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:38,160
charge impact fees.

1187
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:38,560
>> Okay.

1188
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,240
>> It's got I'll forward you all the codes

1189
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:41,920
and the rules and stuff.

1190
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,319
>> Okay, that's good to know.

1191
00:43:44,319 --> 00:43:45,599
>> Thanks.

1192
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:48,480
Huh?

1193
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:49,920
>> Yeah, it's it's very detailed and it's

1194
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,359
quotes all the ordinances and stuff, but

1195
00:43:51,359 --> 00:43:53,520
it's basically proportionate share to

1196
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,640
cover additional expenses, culinary,

1197
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,720
water, sewer. It just lists all the

1198
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:00,880
stuff. If it's internal, you can't.

1199
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,200
There's ordinances that prohibit it. But

1200
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:04,079
if it's

1201
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:05,920
>> Is this Utah State Code?

1202
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,520
>> Yes, I'll send it to you.

1203
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:08,160
>> Yeah. Can you send

1204
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,359
>> I don't know that we want to do that,

1205
00:44:09,359 --> 00:44:12,160
but there might based off of I don't

1206
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:12,960
know.

1207
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,880
>> I'll forward it to you guys.

1208
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,720
That's great.

1209
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:17,520
>> I think

1210
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,520
>> we're not allowing them to create

1211
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:20,960
>> new connection.

1212
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,605
>> Yeah.

1213
00:44:22,605 --> 00:44:24,240
[snorts]

1214
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:25,839
>> Which that's by state law. You can't

1215
00:44:25,839 --> 00:44:27,280
have a different connection. And it

1216
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,040
talks about all that and for the

1217
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,280
internal. But then it goes into detail.

1218
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,880
So it says utility connections. No, you

1219
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,960
cannot charge impact fees by code

1220
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,560
102133.

1221
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,119
Paragraph 3. A or whatever. But it does

1222
00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:42,560
say you can do impact fees on detached.

1223
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,880
It's up to each city to decide, I guess.

1224
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:45,839
>> Okay.

1225
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:47,520
>> So, it is something we may want to

1226
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:48,880
consider. Yeah.

1227
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,640
>> Yeah. I think for sure we will. So,

1228
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:50,880
okay.

1229
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,880
>> A,200 square foot house, you don't need

1230
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,079
a separate connection. You can just tag

1231
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:56,720
onto your

1232
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,240
>> specifically saying you can't do a

1233
00:44:58,240 --> 00:44:58,960
separate connection.

1234
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,160
>> Yeah. I mean, I don't know. That seems

1235
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,920
like a lot of house for

1236
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,040
>> to put into your

1237
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,480
>> plug into your existing, but I don't

1238
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,560
know. You're the engineer. I guess you

1239
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,520
can.

1240
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,119
Hayden, can I ask something?

1241
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:14,560
>> Yeah, go ahead, Milo.

1242
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,280
>> Um, Shelley and Jason and I went to the

1243
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,520
TSSD meeting and they told us that we

1244
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,680
had to charge impact fees for those

1245
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,200
buildings.

1246
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,040
>> Oh, interesting.

1247
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,839
>> It's required or recommended.

1248
00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:29,839
>> Jason, do you remember? I've got in my

1249
00:45:29,839 --> 00:45:32,160
notes and I think they said it's

1250
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,040
separate sewer and water systems even

1251
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,119
though they're

1252
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:39,440
being buil through the house and kind of

1253
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,760
connected through the house. So that's

1254
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:42,960
something I guess we'll have to double

1255
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,000
check on.

1256
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,560
>> So my my what I remembered was they

1257
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,119
strongly recommended we do.

1258
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:51,520
>> Yeah.

1259
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,440
>> Yes. That

1260
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,520
>> because it is I mean there's potential

1261
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,079
for a full family to move in. That is

1262
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:01,200
doubling that connections flow.

1263
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,280
>> So when we should should um answer the

1264
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:11,040
question about size of line um 40,000

1265
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,720
square foot home still has a 4 inch

1266
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:15,040
sewer line connecting to it. So,

1267
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:15,920
>> okay.

1268
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,280
>> And a small home, same thing. So, sewer

1269
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,800
line,

1270
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,200
>> not so much. Now, water,

1271
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:24,640
>> you might have some pressure issues.

1272
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,839
>> We may have some issues with that. So,

1273
00:46:27,839 --> 00:46:29,599
that is definitely something we would

1274
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:31,359
have to look at. Yeah, I'm reading

1275
00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:33,440
through my notes and I have written down

1276
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,000
detached ADU buildings requires a

1277
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,200
separate TSSD fee

1278
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,800
>> and that I I think you are correct on

1279
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:43,040
that.

1280
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:44,000
>> That makes sense.

1281
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,040
>> Yeah, that TSSD will charge us another

1282
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,839
fee for that. So now whether we pass

1283
00:46:49,839 --> 00:46:51,359
that on or not is a [clears throat]

1284
00:46:51,359 --> 00:46:52,480
different question.

1285
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,000
>> Yeah.

1286
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:54,640
Yes.

1287
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,480
>> So, you're just saying, Jason, we may or

1288
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,960
may not charge additional impact fees

1289
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,680
for that additional sewer line and water

1290
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:02,240
line.

1291
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:05,040
>> Correct.

1292
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,640
>> And I think that's why they they're

1293
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,960
going to charge us. So,

1294
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:10,640
>> why would we not? But

1295
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,480
>> that is something we need to discuss and

1296
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,480
determine if as the city we want to do

1297
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,319
that.

1298
00:47:16,319 --> 00:47:18,720
But

1299
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:20,640
is that an ordinance issue or is that

1300
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,359
just

1301
00:47:23,359 --> 00:47:24,800
>> I don't think it has to go in the

1302
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,720
ordinance that we charge impact fees for

1303
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:28,079
it.

1304
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:29,440
>> We'd have to look more into that. I

1305
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:30,720
don't think so%

1306
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:33,599
>> talking about annual

1307
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:40,230
licenses. We're not outlining.

1308
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:43,589
» Yeah.

1309
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:44,640
It would probably have to go back

1310
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,160
through a fee schedule though through

1311
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,079
the city council. Correct.

1312
00:47:48,079 --> 00:47:49,920
>> Yes. Yeah. We would have to update the

1313
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,079
fee schedule. Now whether that's an

1314
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:55,680
ordinance to collect the fee or just the

1315
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,040
fee schedule change.

1316
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:57,520
>> Yeah.

1317
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,920
>> It needs to go to council.

1318
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:01,359
>> Yeah. We have been talking about

1319
00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:03,040
updating the fee schedule. We just make

1320
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,240
a recommendation

1321
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:10,640
>> and and there's and there's no reason why we would ever

1322
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,599
allow a separate water main or sewer

1323
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:20,309
main to an ADU.

1324
00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:22,240
Like, you know, I'm thinking like three

1325
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:25,119
falls, you know, they're like, "Oh, I'm

1326
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:27,280
just gonna why why do I have to connect

1327
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,319
to my house that's over here? We're

1328
00:48:30,319 --> 00:48:32,400
going to force that, right?

1329
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,960
>> And I think we can. I think there could

1330
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,440
be exceptions if you wanted to because

1331
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,280
if it's a big enough lot, they bought

1332
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,240
two or three lots and so there's already

1333
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,800
a connection there

1334
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,319
>> and now they're paying for a separate

1335
00:48:46,319 --> 00:48:49,040
fee and you know, it becomes two. So,

1336
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:50,880
>> if it were me, I wouldn't allow that. I

1337
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,280
would say you need to connect. But if

1338
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:58,800
their home is built on the upper lot and it doesn't connect,

1339
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,640
>> then we may have to have that discussion

1340
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,400
on a case by case. But

1341
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,880
>> might actually be environmentally

1342
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,599
destructive to have

1343
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:14,870
to go to

1344
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,240
» But I would say the general rule is you

1345
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:19,520
need to connect it.

1346
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,119
>> Yeah. Okay.

1347
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:23,119
>> But right now have guest houses on five

1348
00:49:23,119 --> 00:49:25,040
acres and they don't have to connect.

1349
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,640
>> They do. They they they do need to

1350
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:27,520
connect.

1351
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,079
>> Yes.

1352
00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:29,440
>> Even on the five.

1353
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,280
>> Yeah. That's because it's kind of built

1354
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:32,559
into our code.

1355
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:34,160
>> Okay. I just didn't know whether in our

1356
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,559
field

1357
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:39,119
>> and if and as of right now, if you put a

1358
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:42,319
bathroom or a shower, whatever, in your

1359
00:49:42,319 --> 00:49:45,359
garage, that's a separate. So, it's

1360
00:49:45,359 --> 00:49:47,760
still not a ADU.

1361
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,839
>> You have to connect that to your

1362
00:49:49,839 --> 00:49:50,720
primary.

1363
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:51,920
>> Yeah.

1364
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,160
That makes sense.

1365
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,880
>> Okay, so we kept the percentages.

1366
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,800
>> Awesome. Great discussion. Okay, so

1367
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,240
moving on to number five.

1368
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:02,480
>> Can I just ask something real quick? Are

1369
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,200
these the percentages you want or do you

1370
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:06,800
want us to look into it a little

1371
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,640
further?

1372
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:15,760
>> I mean, I know we just pulled those from holiday. So I I I don't know

1373
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,640
>> if you got a more

1374
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,319
>> I mean what are you going to do you know

1375
00:50:18,319 --> 00:50:20,480
and and and the and the and it may

1376
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,720
change very little or none at all

1377
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:25,839
>> and it and it may so it's

1378
00:50:25,839 --> 00:50:27,760
>> it's just a question if you want us to

1379
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,440
look into it or if you're comfortable

1380
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:30,880
with these we're just going to stick

1381
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:31,440
with them.

1382
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:32,240
>> Yeah.

1383
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:35,040
>> You know the thought I had is that since

1384
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:40,160
we ended up with the maximum living area

1385
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,640
what is it 1600 or 1800

1386
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:43,760
What did we put in there?

1387
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,680
>> Uh, 12,200.

1388
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:45,920
Yeah,

1389
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,040
>> 1,200.

1390
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:47,760
>> Yeah,

1391
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,400
>> I don't know if this item is even

1392
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,990
needed.

1393
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,079
» We had that we had that in in we had

1394
00:50:56,079 --> 00:50:57,599
this in there

1395
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:00,720
>> to prevent larger lots from creating

1396
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:02,720
huge mon monstrous

1397
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:03,760
>> ADUs.

1398
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,440
>> But the biggest impact's going to be

1399
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,680
this 20 to 40,000 square foot lot.

1400
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,920
That's where most of our lot sit right

1401
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,480
in Alpine. And so we need to make sure

1402
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,720
that 25 that's the one I'm most worried

1403
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:15,599
about

1404
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:19,119
>> is the 25 is that the appropriate size

1405
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:22,160
for you know like our my neighborhood

1406
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,920
that's

1407
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,119
>> kind of what that would look like

1408
00:51:27,119 --> 00:51:30,400
because is that if you were to put the

1409
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,000
average lot size in Alpine where

1410
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,920
>> most of the homes sit on half an acre to

1411
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:36,559
an acre.

1412
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:38,640
>> Yeah, it kind of right. That's the one

1413
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,680
I'm most curious about. Is that

1414
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:42,559
appropriate?

1415
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:43,119
>> Yeah.

1416
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:44,720
>> For

1417
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:47,680
my thoughts,

1418
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,040
>> the other thing that maybe has changed

1419
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,359
that is what they've done with living

1420
00:51:51,359 --> 00:51:53,280
space versus footprint.

1421
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,480
>> It's going to change.

1422
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,040
>> Then you could have

1423
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,480
>> a garage. Yeah.

1424
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,200
>> Yeah. A massive garage, which means this

1425
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,599
garage comes into play. Yeah.

1426
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:07,040
>> Yeah.

1427
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,280
>> So, this is needed if if you're going

1428
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,599
living space because you could have a

1429
00:52:11,599 --> 00:52:14,160
3,000t garage and a 12,200 foot

1430
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:15,200
apartment above it.

1431
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:15,760
>> Yeah.

1432
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,960
>> And living space instead of

1433
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,960
>> Yeah. But I understand. But I think you

1434
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,200
need both, especially in that

1435
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,640
>> in that sensitive area, I guess.

1436
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,800
>> Yeah. That that's that's why, John, I

1437
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,200
would be I would I would recommend that

1438
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,920
we keep those just for that reason

1439
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,720
>> and maybe check on the 20 to 40. Look at

1440
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:40,960
that sweet spot. This is the appropriate

1441
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:53,030
>> size lot coverage for that.

1442
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,680
Well, yeah.

1443
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,441
>> My house is probably two.

1444
00:52:57,441 --> 00:52:59,119
[clears throat] If I go my main level of

1445
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:00,800
my garage,

1446
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,800
>> 20 20 2,000 square foot wonder

1447
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,960
>> and my lot my lot's bigger than normal

1448
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,880
though. So, I'm going to go back to the

1449
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,800
four the 20,000 square foot lot. I have

1450
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,240
like a 23 acre.

1451
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:15,920
>> So, if you've got a 2,000 square foot on

1452
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,440
a 20, you're still only 10% with your

1453
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:20,480
main house.

1454
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,640
>> Yeah. And I'll say that um originally I

1455
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,319
felt like these percentages were small,

1456
00:53:26,319 --> 00:53:28,559
but then I went and tried to map out

1457
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:30,960
some homes compared to property size.

1458
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:31,680
>> Yeah.

1459
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,119
>> And it seemed like most homes were a

1460
00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:37,760
fifth of the lot or less to me as like

1461
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:38,960
you're saying.

1462
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,119
>> So it seemed like it would be okay. Um

1463
00:53:41,119 --> 00:53:43,200
so we continued with these.

1464
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:43,599
>> Yeah.

1465
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:44,880
>> Um

1466
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,119
>> yeah, but I'm not a rambler. I'm a I'm a

1467
00:53:47,119 --> 00:53:48,720
twotory. You know, a rambler is going to

1468
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:50,079
take a bigger footprint. Are you

1469
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:51,807
recommending change that?

1470
00:53:51,807 --> 00:53:52,079
[clears throat]

1471
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:53,760
>> No, I just recommend that we make sure

1472
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,760
it's appropriate and tight enough

1473
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,200
because I don't want that,

1474
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:57,520
>> right?

1475
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,200
>> You know, if I'm only 10% of my lot,

1476
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,400
>> I got 15.

1477
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,319
>> But you're still limited with 12,200

1478
00:54:04,319 --> 00:54:06,000
square feet. That's 3%.

1479
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,079
>> Yeah. But not my garage. I could put a

1480
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:10,240
bigger garage, 1200.

1481
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:12,800
>> You could only have 1,200 livable inside

1482
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:13,599
your garage.

1483
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:15,599
>> No, that doesn't include garage living

1484
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:18,000
space.

1485
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,040
>> Right. Right. But I think what John's

1486
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:23,280
saying is that if you adapt a 3,000 foot

1487
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,160
garage into a living space of 1,200,

1488
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:27,440
>> well, that's all you can do.

1489
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,040
>> Yeah. I'm just being I'm just going to

1490
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,440
the big end, right? Yeah. You put a

1491
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,400
2,000 foot garage, only 1,200 above it

1492
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,400
is living because you leave the other

1493
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:37,680
open, right? You don't

1494
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,720
>> do Do you exceed that 25%.

1495
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:43,760
>> No, I'd still be under. I'm a 10. I'd

1496
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,920
still be under if I put a 2,000 foot

1497
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,319
garage and a,200 living I'd still be

1498
00:54:48,319 --> 00:54:51,200
under.

1499
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,000
>> That's a lot.

1500
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,359
>> Yeah. So, my other thing too,

1501
00:54:55,359 --> 00:54:57,200
>> Yeah. And so my other thing with living

1502
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,119
space and and footprint, like today, for

1503
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:00,240
example, we were viewing building

1504
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:01,839
permits. There was an accessory building

1505
00:55:01,839 --> 00:55:05,680
coming in that was 1300 square foot uh

1506
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,200
garage

1507
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,480
or let's see or basement an,00 foot

1508
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,960
garage or something like that. And so if

1509
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,280
the footprint was 1300, that that

1510
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,599
building automatically disqualifies. as

1511
00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:19,200
an ADU.

1512
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:19,599
>> Yeah.

1513
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:21,760
>> So, to me that that seems a little too

1514
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,319
crazy. I think we should allow those

1515
00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:26,480
buildings to convert to ADUs as long as

1516
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,280
they restrict a certain square footage.

1517
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,440
>> And plus, the state statute says we have

1518
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,280
to have a method for buildings to

1519
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:34,240
convert. Yeah.

1520
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:36,160
>> And so, if someone has a 3,000 foot

1521
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:37,200
garage, I mean, that is the biggest

1522
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,680
concern, right? A massive building and a

1523
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,440
tiny ADU inside of it. That is the

1524
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,400
biggest concern with living area.

1525
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,839
But, um, I think

1526
00:55:47,839 --> 00:55:49,200
>> Yeah. What's the concern?

1527
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:50,240
>> Well, I'm just saying because that's

1528
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:54,960
what you guys are saying, right? If you allow a 3,000 foot garage to have

1529
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,839
an ADU in it because it's based on

1530
00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:01,119
living area, not footprint. Like to me,

1531
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:03,599
I think that's okay because then you're

1532
00:56:03,599 --> 00:56:04,799
not causing someone to just build

1533
00:56:04,799 --> 00:56:06,720
another building. So then that goes back

1534
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:08,559
to lot coverage, right? So I think all

1535
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:09,839
these codes just kind of balance each

1536
00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:13,440
other out in the end. Um, the more we

1537
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:14,720
allow people to build in the buildings

1538
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:15,760
they already have, the less new

1539
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,150
buildings we'll have. Right.

1540
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:21,280
» Yeah.

1541
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,440
>> Right.

1542
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,520
>> Why Why do the brand new ones ha have to

1543
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,839
have a garage? Because we're not trying

1544
00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:34,079
to put second homes back there.

1545
00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:36,240
>> A second home would have a big garage.

1546
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,000
>> They don't have to, but people are going

1547
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,079
to do it

1548
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:42,559
>> going to want them. It makes them more

1549
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:43,920
rentable.

1550
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,240
>> It makes your living [snorts] area more

1551
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:47,520
>> Well, and all I'll say too is like

1552
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:48,960
nothing in our code restricts someone

1553
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,640
from doing a 3,000 foot garage right

1554
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:51,040
now,

1555
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:51,680
>> right?

1556
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,880
>> They just couldn't live in it.

1557
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,040
>> If that's our fear, we already allow it.

1558
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:55,760
>> Yeah, exactly.

1559
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,240
>> You know, so I think it makes more sense

1560
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:00,000
to do living area because then someone

1561
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,319
can take part of that 3,000 and convert

1562
00:57:02,319 --> 00:57:04,720
it into,200 foot of ADU. I mean, I guess

1563
00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:07,359
the question is if we're gonna if we're

1564
00:57:07,359 --> 00:57:10,000
going to cap it at 12, you know, that

1565
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,000
that's that really restricts the big

1566
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,599
huge lots like up at Three Falls

1567
00:57:17,599 --> 00:57:19,839
>> to have a massive living area. Yes, it

1568
00:57:19,839 --> 00:57:20,240
does.

1569
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:20,960
>> Yeah.

1570
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,920
>> But I think again that's might be part

1571
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,839
of the goal of an ADU is you're not

1572
00:57:25,839 --> 00:57:27,119
trying to put a second home on your

1573
00:57:27,119 --> 00:57:28,400
property. You're trying to put an

1574
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,240
accessory living area. That's what we

1575
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:31,200
want to control.

1576
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,680
>> And if they want to connect it and go

1577
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,000
large, they have that ability.

1578
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:36,720
>> Yeah, of course.

1579
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,960
>> Connect and go.

1580
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,960
An internal ADU is not restricted in

1581
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,240
size, right? Right. So, if they connect

1582
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,240
it to their house, they can have a 3,000

1583
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,000
foot ADU connected.

1584
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,280
>> Won't be an ADU, though.

1585
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,680
>> If they bought two or three lots.

1586
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,760
>> Yeah.

1587
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,200
>> I mean, I've got two different three

1588
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:53,920
different lots.

1589
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,680
>> Yeah. I wouldn't try to connect it to my

1590
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,599
house because it's

1591
00:57:57,599 --> 00:57:59,440
>> logically you can't go uphill sewer,

1592
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:00,000
right? Yeah.

1593
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,160
>> And so I would just take one of those

1594
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,680
lots. It's a separate lot and I'd build

1595
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:04,799
whatever wanted over there.

1596
00:58:04,799 --> 00:58:05,119
>> Sure.

1597
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:06,480
>> So I think that's the thing is like

1598
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,559
Yeah. If someone most people might not

1599
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:10,319
want to connect it or can't because of

1600
00:58:10,319 --> 00:58:12,400
the because of the topography and so

1601
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,079
it's best to restrict the size in that

1602
00:58:14,079 --> 00:58:16,000
case. That way they're not having a huge

1603
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,319
backyard home or something.

1604
00:58:18,319 --> 00:58:20,640
>> Okay. So, help me think this through

1605
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:25,119
because it appears to me that on a

1606
00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:29,280
40,000 square foot lot at our maximum

1607
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,000
living space, which would the maximum

1608
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,319
living space would indicate that if

1609
00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:37,040
we're trying to

1610
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,520
identify the maximum footprint that it

1611
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,760
could generate would be 1,200 square

1612
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:42,400
feet.

1613
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:43,119
>> Yeah.

1614
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:45,200
>> Right. So that so then that's what this

1615
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,520
is kind of talking about is what

1616
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,280
percentage of the overall lot are we

1617
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,880
consuming. Mhm.

1618
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,200
>> Um,

1619
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:59,520
so at the very most we're only adding 3%

1620
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,799
of to a 40,000 square foot lot

1621
00:59:02,799 --> 00:59:06,960
>> in terms of I what are we calling this

1622
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,160
>> lot coverage?

1623
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,799
I I think I think it's it's not needed.

1624
00:59:14,799 --> 00:59:16,480
>> I I don't think the difference between

1625
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,480
these percentages

1626
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,280
amounts to a hill of beans.

1627
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,680
Well, and if you recall, our our

1628
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,559
original proposal as staff did not

1629
00:59:26,559 --> 00:59:27,680
include lot coverage.

1630
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,480
>> Yeah. Well, we were also we what's

1631
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,119
changed is that we were using um

1632
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:36,319
>> footprint and not living area.

1633
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:41,520
>> And we were saying that that uh and we didn't have it governed, 1200

1634
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,040
square feet.

1635
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,160
>> So, so you're saying

1636
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:45,760
>> we were allowing people to go larger.

1637
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,839
You're saying by virtue of the 1,200

1638
00:59:47,839 --> 00:59:49,760
cap,

1639
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,520
there's no reason to have a percentage.

1640
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:52,799
>> That's what I'm saying.

1641
00:59:52,799 --> 00:59:56,000
>> Because because garages and and

1642
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,160
accessory buildings

1643
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,160
don't have a limitation,

1644
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,079
>> right?

1645
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:14,710
>> Okay.

1646
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:15,520
» Yeah. Right.

1647
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,839
>> Yeah. The setbacks.

1648
01:00:17,839 --> 01:00:19,280
>> Yeah.

1649
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,079
>> Okay.

1650
01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:24,000
>> And I can understand what you're saying

1651
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,799
there, John, too. I will say the council

1652
01:00:26,799 --> 01:00:29,599
definitely likes lot coverage as well.

1653
01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:31,040
>> That's part of the reason.

1654
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:32,319
>> They haven't wrestled with it like we

1655
01:00:32,319 --> 01:00:32,799
have.

1656
01:00:32,799 --> 01:00:33,680
>> Probably.

1657
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:34,720
>> That might be true.

1658
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:35,599
>> But it feels good.

1659
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:37,680
>> It feels good. It looks good. But it

1660
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,640
means nothing. It has no practical use.

1661
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:41,520
>> Yeah.

1662
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,760
>> Because you'll never get that big. It'll

1663
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,079
never be a factor in any analysis.

1664
01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:48,880
>> I never say never and I'll find. So

1665
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:49,920
>> yeah,

1666
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,040
>> and they might have been split. There

1667
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:52,160
was a few that liked it and a few that

1668
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,359
didn't take it to a whole different

1669
01:00:53,359 --> 01:00:56,880
conversation because you conver I guess

1670
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,599
the limit would be like on an acre lot,

1671
01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:04,400
you know, you are already limited the

1672
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,720
size of the house, right? It has to be

1673
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:07,920
30 feet back.

1674
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,160
>> Yeah. has to be 10 feet from the 15 feet

1675
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,480
from the sides.

1676
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:17,440
So what I mean what's the what's the

1677
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,280
maximum? You could probably only have a

1678
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:24,400
footprint that was

1679
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,920
10,000 at the most, right?

1680
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,640
Could you have a 10,000 square foot home

1681
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,880
on a acre lot?

1682
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:33,680
>> Jason, I was

1683
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,839
>> on a half acre. You could

1684
01:01:35,839 --> 01:01:38,559
>> if you go 30 by 15 by 15.

1685
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:39,839
>> Yeah.

1686
01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:43,119
>> So assuming just a square lot h square

1687
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:45,599
halfacre lot. So literally halfacre not

1688
01:01:45,599 --> 01:01:49,760
two 20,000 um with all your setbacks you

1689
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,079
could build a 10,000 square foot home on

1690
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:52,400
that

1691
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:53,200
>> on a halfacre

1692
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:55,440
>> on a single level.

1693
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,160
>> You could do a 10,000

1694
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,960
level and have 10 in the basement on a

1695
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:01,440
20

1696
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,559
>> technically. Yes. Yes.

1697
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:05,520
30,

1698
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,680
>> but that is set back to set back to set

1699
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:08,000
back

1700
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,319
>> in the smaller lots. But I think as you

1701
01:02:10,319 --> 01:02:12,559
get to the big lots, it becomes

1702
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:13,200
>> Yeah.

1703
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:13,760
>> moot.

1704
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,960
But it's nice to have it on all of

1705
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:18,480
them because I think it is most

1706
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,000
important in the small ones.

1707
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:20,960
>> Yeah.

1708
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,559
>> And that's what our code currently has.

1709
01:02:22,559 --> 01:02:25,760
Only the TR10,000 zone has a 50 50% lock

1710
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:26,480
coverage.

1711
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:28,799
>> But why do we have 35 and the code is

1712
01:02:28,799 --> 01:02:31,520
50?

1713
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:33,520
This is

1714
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:35,359
>> I originally thought that too, but this

1715
01:02:35,359 --> 01:02:37,440
is what was recommended originally by

1716
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,520
the planning commission and then

1717
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,359
>> council was fine with it.

1718
01:02:41,359 --> 01:02:42,559
>> Yeah. And it comes from the holiday

1719
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:43,920
code. So

1720
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,079
>> but if if it's 50 in our code, then it

1721
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:46,960
should be 50 here.

1722
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,839
>> So I think the goal is just that if it

1723
01:02:49,839 --> 01:02:51,839
has an ADU on the property, all of a

1724
01:02:51,839 --> 01:02:53,520
sudden your lot coverage goes way down

1725
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,440
to 35 instead of just 50.

1726
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:56,559
>> Even more restrictive,

1727
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:57,920
>> I think that's the thought process. I

1728
01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:58,319
like that.

1729
01:02:58,319 --> 01:02:59,440
>> Yeah. Okay. So,

1730
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:00,960
>> thank you.

1731
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,040
>> But but I will say I agree with the

1732
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,680
>> council happy. I'm happy.

1733
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,920
>> Well, and

1734
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,760
I agree with the commission that it

1735
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:11,359
might not be necessary. I think our

1736
01:03:11,359 --> 01:03:12,880
restrictions already kind of restrict

1737
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,280
lot coverage. But anyway,

1738
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,319
>> yeah, but but I I guess the other issue,

1739
01:03:18,319 --> 01:03:22,480
John, that we're ignoring is this is

1740
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,960
this takes into account all permanent

1741
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:30,079
structures. So, this is everything

1742
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:32,480
>> that's permanent, which could be a

1743
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,200
basketball hoop, uh, a basketball court,

1744
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,240
a pickle ball court, a pool.

1745
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:38,559
>> So,

1746
01:03:38,559 --> 01:03:39,920
>> I thought I thought we were just talking

1747
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,160
about vertical

1748
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:42,799
decision, right?

1749
01:03:42,799 --> 01:03:44,480
>> Yeah, that's what I would love you guys

1750
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:45,520
to clarify today.

1751
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:46,720
>> We got to clarify.

1752
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:47,920
>> I thought we had this discussion last

1753
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,039
week. We decided

1754
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:50,400
>> anything below the fence.

1755
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,319
>> It was just

1756
01:03:52,319 --> 01:03:56,480
vertical things. I mean, but I I thought we kind of talked about we

1757
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:57,760
didn't really care.

1758
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,440
>> I mean, like, if they if you want to get

1759
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,760
your yard and put a pool and a sport

1760
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,039
court, I mean, I don't care if you have

1761
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:04,799
a lawn or not.

1762
01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:05,680
>> I don't know. Maybe.

1763
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,760
>> I think that sounds about right. Yeah,

1764
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,559
>> pool houses should count. Pool houses,

1765
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:13,039
garages, permanent structures.

1766
01:04:13,039 --> 01:04:13,599
>> Okay.

1767
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:15,200
>> Need to go.

1768
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,599
>> So, yeah. I mean, I I guess I'm leaning

1769
01:04:17,599 --> 01:04:21,924
towards John and just remove four

1770
01:04:21,924 --> 01:04:23,760
>> [laughter]

1771
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:25,680
>> That just complicates it.

1772
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:27,839
>> No.

1773
01:04:27,839 --> 01:04:28,400
>> Because then there's

1774
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:29,760
>> Does that mean we don't have to define

1775
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:31,200
the permanent structure?

1776
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:31,839
>> Exactly.

1777
01:04:31,839 --> 01:04:33,119
>> Okay. Exactly.

1778
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:34,240
>> It's a win.

1779
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,280
>> Exactly. It's a win.

1780
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:38,400
>> Yeah. Because then there's the question

1781
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,799
of, well, a pickle ball court has a

1782
01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:43,440
vertical fence around it that's 10 feet

1783
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:44,559
tall.

1784
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:46,880
>> Is that a permanent structure? I'm just

1785
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,640
throwing it out there. All right. But

1786
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,599
>> yeah, I I I guess I mean whoever makes

1787
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:52,480
the motion.

1788
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,079
>> It keeps your view corridor because you

1789
01:04:54,079 --> 01:04:55,200
can see through the

1790
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,280
>> Yeah, if they if they change holiday,

1791
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,200
the reason why Holiday used this is

1792
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,119
because they were more concerned about

1793
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:02,480
drain runoff.

1794
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,520
>> Yes,

1795
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,440
>> because they had all that code in there

1796
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,720
about per impermeable surfaces.

1797
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:09,520
>> Yeah.

1798
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:10,000
>> Okay.

1799
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,000
>> I think we chose not just to ignore

1800
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:12,640
that.

1801
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,119
>> Okay.

1802
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:15,280
>> Yeah. So my recommendation whoever makes

1803
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,599
the motion is to pour and then if the

1804
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:22,150
city wants to put it back

1805
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,640
» I I don't have a problem with that at

1806
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:25,039
all.

1807
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,359
>> Do that give some rationale so that they

1808
01:05:27,359 --> 01:05:28,400
understand why we're doing

1809
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:29,520
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

1810
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,119
>> Okay.

1811
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:32,799
>> All right.

1812
01:05:32,799 --> 01:05:35,280
>> I don't see anybody else writing, John.

1813
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:38,000
>> Okay. Number five is just uh one is

1814
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,000
allowed per lot or parcel

1815
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,520
>> if it already has another. that can't

1816
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:44,160
have another. Um, number six, we added

1817
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,079
this occupancy

1818
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:47,760
line according to the planning

1819
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:48,640
commission.

1820
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,799
>> Um, so should one individual or comply

1821
01:05:50,799 --> 01:05:52,319
with the definition of family, which

1822
01:05:52,319 --> 01:05:54,480
includes four unrelated individuals in

1823
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,240
our code. Okay.

1824
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,319
>> Um, less than 90 days, we already talked

1825
01:05:58,319 --> 01:05:59,839
about that one for number seven. Number

1826
01:05:59,839 --> 01:06:03,280
eight is just that if it's less than 650

1827
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,359
square feet per state code, we can only

1828
01:06:05,359 --> 01:06:07,200
require them to have one parking space.

1829
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:08,640
If it's over, we can have two. So,

1830
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,119
that's just in there. Great.

1831
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:13,599
Um same setbacks as those required for

1832
01:06:13,599 --> 01:06:15,200
accessory buildings is what we

1833
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:16,640
determined. Okay.

1834
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:20,000
>> Um and then same height requirements up

1835
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,280
to 25 ft not not 30.

1836
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,160
>> Okay. Um shall be built with the design

1837
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,039
is consistent with design main dwelling.

1838
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:30,880
Uh shall meet international residential

1839
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,640
building codes. Shall connect to the

1840
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,319
same meter.

1841
01:06:34,319 --> 01:06:36,559
>> Not sorry on number 11. You don't need

1842
01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:39,680
to like define that any I mean that's

1843
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:41,039
seems a little

1844
01:06:41,039 --> 01:06:43,119
>> Yeah. And I think the goal with that is

1845
01:06:43,119 --> 01:06:44,000
like

1846
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,000
>> that kind of it it is a little bit

1847
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,359
ambiguous because you know maybe it's

1848
01:06:49,359 --> 01:06:51,039
not going to look exactly like the main

1849
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:51,599
structure

1850
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:53,520
>> modern home in front and a cabin in the

1851
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:53,920
back.

1852
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:54,240
>> Yeah.

1853
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:55,839
Like something like that we would

1854
01:06:55,839 --> 01:06:57,839
determine. Okay. That's not meeting the

1855
01:06:57,839 --> 01:06:59,520
same design. But

1856
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:00,400
>> I just didn't know if

1857
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,000
>> you can tell there's effort to make it

1858
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:03,440
match, which I think most people would

1859
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:04,480
want to

1860
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:06,559
>> if you need some teeth to enforce that.

1861
01:07:06,559 --> 01:07:08,400
I just didn't know if you needed

1862
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:08,880
something.

1863
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:12,640
>> It's a good thought. I think um but and

1864
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,480
maybe we can look into that further. Um

1865
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,319
in my opinion, I thought it was a better

1866
01:07:16,319 --> 01:07:18,480
to leave a little open just because

1867
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,000
someone might not be able to match it

1868
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,480
perfectly, but

1869
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:23,760
>> might not want to. It's a little

1870
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:25,359
expensive or something, right? But

1871
01:07:25,359 --> 01:07:25,839
anyway,

1872
01:07:25,839 --> 01:07:26,480
>> might want.

1873
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,240
>> No, I I think it's great. I think it's

1874
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:29,359
great. I just

1875
01:07:29,359 --> 01:07:31,200
>> Yeah, you know, like you're gonna get in

1876
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,599
a you're gonna get in a little, you

1877
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:35,440
know, I think it is whatever.

1878
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,680
>> Yeah, [laughter]

1879
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,680
>> it's a good thought. I appreciate it

1880
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:41,119
>> because it always is nice to have teeth

1881
01:07:41,119 --> 01:07:45,520
with everything. Okay. And then 13. Um,

1882
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,480
same meter. We talked about that one.

1883
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,000
All construction and remodeling to

1884
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:51,599
accommodate these extra buildings shall

1885
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:54,079
be in accordance with those codes.

1886
01:07:54,079 --> 01:07:56,079
Uh, a legally, this one's key because

1887
01:07:56,079 --> 01:07:57,760
it's required by state, a legally

1888
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,440
constructed accessory structure may be

1889
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,599
converted to a an ADU with the process

1890
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:05,119
established by the city. It shall comply

1891
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:07,200
with applicable accessory structure

1892
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,440
setback requirements and those three

1893
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:10,640
codes.

1894
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:12,240
>> Yeah.

1895
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:14,559
>> Um,

1896
01:08:14,559 --> 01:08:17,199
and then

1897
01:08:17,199 --> 01:08:18,319
this is just saying that they need to

1898
01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:20,080
get an ADU permit if they're doing a

1899
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:21,839
building. And then number 17 is the same

1900
01:08:21,839 --> 01:08:23,359
as the one we read above that they have

1901
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:25,279
to do their rental license and cool

1902
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:26,080
registration.

1903
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:26,960
>> Okay.

1904
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:28,480
>> And then this is just re numbered. Any

1905
01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:29,920
questions?

1906
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,080
>> We had a definition of who could be

1907
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,960
rented to or how many people is that?

1908
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,759
>> Yeah, that is in number six here.

1909
01:08:37,759 --> 01:08:43,910
>> So

1910
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,319
» okay. So you put a definition of family

1911
01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:48,880
embedded it in a different place. It

1912
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:50,560
currently exists in that code right

1913
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,199
there that's listed and it says yeah and

1914
01:08:53,199 --> 01:08:55,040
it lists basically everything that we

1915
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,560
wanted which is okay

1916
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:58,560
>> related individuals or up to four

1917
01:08:58,560 --> 01:08:59,600
non-related.

1918
01:08:59,600 --> 01:08:59,920
>> Okay.

1919
01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:01,679
>> So I figured that's the easiest. Let's

1920
01:09:01,679 --> 01:09:02,400
just add that.

1921
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:04,239
>> Good.

1922
01:09:04,239 --> 01:09:05,839
>> Okay. Any other questions about this

1923
01:09:05,839 --> 01:09:09,440
one? Can you go back up to the item

1924
01:09:09,440 --> 01:09:18,470
four?

1925
01:09:18,480 --> 01:09:20,319
» Is there anything detrimental given the

1926
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:21,920
fact the city council's already approved

1927
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:25,189
it?

1928
01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:26,640
» Yeah, I that's what I'm saying is it's

1929
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,319
not a big deal. It's it's it's going to

1930
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:30,960
be meaningless. doesn't change things if

1931
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:31,679
you just leave it.

1932
01:09:31,679 --> 01:09:33,120
>> Yeah. But it looks

1933
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:39,759
>> by good policy. By good policy because

1934
01:09:39,759 --> 01:09:42,560
when we die and somebody else is here,

1935
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,400
they're going to

1936
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,319
>> this is be one of the ends of the ham

1937
01:09:46,319 --> 01:09:47,040
that got cut off

1938
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,040
>> and the new and the new city planner

1939
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,239
will go, "Yeah, I'm not [laughter]

1940
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:52,080
really sure why that was."

1941
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:53,679
>> Well, look up who was on the commission

1942
01:09:53,679 --> 01:09:54,239
and be like,

1943
01:09:54,239 --> 01:09:55,520
>> and I'll just clarify, too. I think

1944
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,920
there was not consensus by the council

1945
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,360
that they liked this. I think I think

1946
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:00,159
council member

1947
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:01,760
>> I think if we just explain why it's not

1948
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:02,800
good. I just want to use the right

1949
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,159
language.

1950
01:10:04,159 --> 01:10:05,440
>> Um

1951
01:10:05,440 --> 01:10:07,280
>> I think it's good especially in the

1952
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:12,790
smaller

1953
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,520
» can I just say as a staff member

1954
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:16,400
>> what

1955
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,679
>> can I just say as a staff member um lock

1956
01:10:19,679 --> 01:10:23,760
coverage is going to be difficult to

1957
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:25,120
calculate.

1958
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,760
>> Yeah I agree.

1959
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:29,360
Yeah, I think we've thought about it

1960
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:30,960
too. Like it's just going to be a little

1961
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,440
bit extra work for us with every ADU

1962
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:35,840
permit than we've usually had to do.

1963
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,960
>> Mara, why why makes it difficult?

1964
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,640
>> Because um you got to go back and

1965
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,719
research building permits. How big was

1966
01:10:44,719 --> 01:10:46,400
this pool house they built? How big was

1967
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,560
the pool? How big was the detached

1968
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,000
garage? And then I just feel like the

1969
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:54,320
city's now become this great big HOA.

1970
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,560
>> Yeah.

1971
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:57,600
Just

1972
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:59,679
a lot of labor unless the only way I

1973
01:10:59,679 --> 01:11:01,199
could see it working is if when they

1974
01:11:01,199 --> 01:11:03,520
brought their application in they had to

1975
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,920
bring a bird's eye view map of their

1976
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,480
backyard

1977
01:11:08,480 --> 01:11:10,239
>> oh like you have

1978
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:11,679
>> that already calculated

1979
01:11:11,679 --> 01:11:12,880
>> you have to do that now

1980
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:14,800
>> but we still then would have have to

1981
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,199
define what constituted per permanent

1982
01:11:17,199 --> 01:11:18,880
structures we haven't done that anywhere

1983
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:19,840
yet right

1984
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:21,920
>> no

1985
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:23,360
>> yeah that would be necessary

1986
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:26,719
>> we would consider

1987
01:11:26,719 --> 01:11:29,120
We're just considering

1988
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,560
detached garages, pool houses, and your

1989
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,719
home. What else were we considering?

1990
01:11:34,719 --> 01:11:38,800
>> Well, we we're using this this language

1991
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:40,400
now cause the aggregate building

1992
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,199
coverage of all permanent structures on

1993
01:11:43,199 --> 01:11:46,239
the lot to exceed the following.

1994
01:11:46,239 --> 01:11:49,280
>> What is a permanent structure?

1995
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:51,040
>> We've already had this discussion and we

1996
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,199
couldn't come to agreement.

1997
01:11:53,199 --> 01:11:56,640
>> Exactly. I the list is kind of endless,

1998
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:57,360
isn't it?

1999
01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:58,080
>> Yes.

2000
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:02,310
>> Or stall. I mean, whatever.

2001
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,014
» Your house is mobile and your car.

2002
01:12:05,014 --> 01:12:05,199
[laughter]

2003
01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:08,880
>> That's right.

2004
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:10,560
>> Yeah.

2005
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,520
I I think I think the smaller

2006
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:18,239
living space numbers that we have

2007
01:12:18,239 --> 01:12:19,760
>> covers covers this.

2008
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,400
>> Yeah. I think I think I think that's

2009
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:23,280
right. Yeah.

2010
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,040
>> And I think it has more to do with

2011
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:26,960
defining permanent structures and

2012
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,520
getting into the weeds on that and

2013
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:32,080
having it being difficult for st for the

2014
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:33,040
city to manage.

2015
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,440
>> Yeah. And if we have an issue later on

2016
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:37,520
when we're all still here,

2017
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,800
>> we can we can add that code, you know,

2018
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:42,560
if there if it comes back and we're

2019
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:43,280
like,

2020
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,960
>> "Oh my gosh, we didn't think of this or

2021
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:50,320
>> this was not anticipated." You know, we

2022
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,960
could add code later. But I don't like

2023
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:56,480
being railroaded into adding code.

2024
01:12:56,480 --> 01:12:57,600
>> We do that all the time.

2025
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:59,120
>> I know. But it doesn't feel

2026
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,199
>> we're being we're being railroaded right

2027
01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:01,679
now.

2028
01:13:01,679 --> 01:13:03,679
>> Feel good if somebody always wins and

2029
01:13:03,679 --> 01:13:05,840
then somebody always ends up losing.

2030
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,000
>> This is We're being railroaded right

2031
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:08,960
now. So

2032
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:10,480
>> we're making the best of it. So

2033
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:13,040
>> Okay. Any any questions for Jason or

2034
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:14,880
Kaden?

2035
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:19,280
>> If not, I will entertain a motion.

2036
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:20,480
>> Okay. Okay. So, that's that's the only

2037
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:22,080
thing that we're modifying is section

2038
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,000
four, right? Item four.

2039
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:28,550
>> Item four.

2040
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,679
I'll make a motion. I move to recommend

2041
01:13:31,679 --> 01:13:33,520
approval of the detached ADU code

2042
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:36,960
amendment and amendments to 3.14 of the

2043
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,960
Alpine Development Code as proposed with

2044
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:42,880
the following

2045
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,950
um change.

2046
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:51,120
We recommend removing item four

2047
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:56,640
cover uh addressing maximum lot coverage

2048
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:00,080
because it is

2049
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,560
um

2050
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,320
not a meaningful measure

2051
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:09,760
in any circumstance

2052
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:14,159
after the maximum size of the ADU has

2053
01:14:14,159 --> 01:14:17,440
been changed. changed to be 1,200

2054
01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:21,440
maximum living square feet.

2055
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:23,199
Previously, when we were considering

2056
01:14:23,199 --> 01:14:26,719
this item, we thought that there may be

2057
01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:32,719
instances where um larger lots could

2058
01:14:32,719 --> 01:14:37,280
build meaningfully larger ADUs and we

2059
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,880
were trying to make sure that those

2060
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,320
could not get out of hand.

2061
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,199
The

2062
01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:51,840
item four as written further introduces

2063
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:56,000
challenges for city staff to manage in

2064
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,440
identifying what constitutes a permanent

2065
01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:02,480
structure that would be included in that

2066
01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:04,239
calculation.

2067
01:15:04,239 --> 01:15:07,920
And because the ADU size is now limited

2068
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,679
to 1,200 square ft of limited space of

2069
01:15:11,679 --> 01:15:16,080
living space, uh that issue is no longer

2070
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,320
uh relevant.

2071
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,199
>> Okay, we have a motion by John. Do I

2072
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:22,320
have a second?

2073
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:23,520
>> I'll second it.

2074
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,640
>> Second by Troy Slade. Any discussions on

2075
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,229
the motion?

2076
01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:32,960
Okay, hearing none. Uh, all those in

2077
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:34,000
favor say I.

2078
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,320
>> I.

2079
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,159
>> Any opposed?

2080
01:15:38,159 --> 01:15:40,719
Okay. Motion carries unanimous.

2081
01:15:40,719 --> 01:15:42,640
>> Good. Good luck. Good. Oh, you did.

2082
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,719
>> I didn't vote. I

2083
01:15:44,719 --> 01:15:45,120
>> Okay,

2084
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:46,080
>> we have one nay.

2085
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,480
>> Okay. We have one nay and one, two,

2086
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:51,120
three, four, five.

2087
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:52,480
>> Okay. [laughter]

2088
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:54,480
Okay. Okay. We're going to start again.

2089
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:56,239
>> No.

2090
01:15:56,239 --> 01:15:56,880
>> Okay.

2091
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,040
>> We're all really quiet.

2092
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:00,080
>> We don't like going.

2093
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,840
>> You made a really good point.

2094
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,280
I know. I like them both, but Yeah.

2095
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,480
>> Okay. Okay. So, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm

2096
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:11,520
gonna do a roll call vote. Troy Slade,

2097
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:12,560
>> yay.

2098
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:13,520
>> Michelle,

2099
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:14,320
>> nay.

2100
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:14,960
>> John,

2101
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:16,400
>> yay.

2102
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,239
>> Jeff, yay. Greg,

2103
01:16:18,239 --> 01:16:18,960
>> yay.

2104
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:20,000
>> Suz,

2105
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:24,000
>> nay. Okay. One, two, three, four yeses

2106
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:28,000
and two nos. Okay. The motion passes.

2107
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,199
>> Okay,

2108
01:16:29,199 --> 01:16:32,000
>> Kaden. Next item. Okay. So, this one

2109
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:34,239
we've looked at a lot, so we will not go

2110
01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:35,440
over it again. It's just all those

2111
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:37,120
updates to city code that we've looked

2112
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:40,159
at. Um, the only thing that's going to

2113
01:16:40,159 --> 01:16:42,400
extend our meeting a little bit is just

2114
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,880
we needed to have a discussion about how

2115
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,840
we want to uh consider buildings

2116
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,679
attached in our city. And I know we've

2117
01:16:49,679 --> 01:16:53,920
talked about that before and uh we we

2118
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:55,920
kind of decided that it was fine the way

2119
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,719
that staff had proposed it. Um, but

2120
01:16:58,719 --> 01:17:01,040
since then we've had some different

2121
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,520
questions and and with the ADU code

2122
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,280
coming in, this detached ADU code coming

2123
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,239
in and questions from council, we just

2124
01:17:08,239 --> 01:17:10,719
want to make sure that that's the way we

2125
01:17:10,719 --> 01:17:11,920
want to do it. We want planning

2126
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,480
commission to give their full and final

2127
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:16,800
recommendation if that is the right way

2128
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:18,159
to do it. So, let me go to the code that

2129
01:17:18,159 --> 01:17:21,920
I'm talking about. Um,

2130
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:25,350
let's see.

2131
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,000
Scroll through. Okay, so this is in each

2132
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,800
of our zones, which is chapter 3 of our

2133
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:32,719
development code. Um, and it goes from

2134
01:17:32,719 --> 01:17:36,880
3.02 to I think 3.06

2135
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:41,600
or 7. Um, so we've just had an issue of

2136
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:46,480
our code currently doesn't address how

2137
01:17:46,480 --> 01:17:50,560
long can an attachment be uh to still be

2138
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:52,880
considered attached to a main structure.

2139
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:53,360
Okay,

2140
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:56,320
>> it says here that uh a building that's

2141
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:59,040
12 feet or closer and attached by a

2142
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:01,600
common roof or wall is considered part

2143
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:03,280
of the main building and shall meet the

2144
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,760
same setbacks as the main building. Um

2145
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:07,679
so the issue with this is it doesn't

2146
01:18:07,679 --> 01:18:11,120
clarify that um

2147
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:14,000
maybe that is the limit that 12 feet is

2148
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:15,679
the limit. It could be farther away or

2149
01:18:15,679 --> 01:18:16,640
something. We had someone that was

2150
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:18,080
proposing something that was 16 feet

2151
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,400
away but was attached by a common river

2152
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,280
wall. And so that took us a few weeks to

2153
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:24,560
handle with them with their building

2154
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:26,560
permit. And so we just thought it was

2155
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,199
best to clarify uh if it's farther than

2156
01:18:29,199 --> 01:18:30,960
12 feet away, even if it's attached,

2157
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,280
it's still not considered part of the

2158
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,840
main structure and has to meet all the

2159
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:37,600
detached structure codes.

2160
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,520
>> And to put in context, this is the

2161
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,949
situation where we looked out by

2162
01:18:41,949 --> 01:18:43,840
[snorts]

2163
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,159
>> SR92, the one house that has like a

2164
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:48,800
60oot easement that they'd call that

2165
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:49,360
connected

2166
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,320
>> in Highland. Yes. So, and I put that

2167
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:54,080
here just so we could

2168
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:54,880
>> see it.

2169
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:56,719
>> Um,

2170
01:18:56,719 --> 01:18:58,480
okay.

2171
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:00,000
So, yeah. So, we'll look at this in a

2172
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,280
minute, but yeah, let me go to that what

2173
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,360
Greg's talking about

2174
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:04,000
>> that one.

2175
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,760
>> So, we have this.

2176
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:08,000
>> Can I clarify that? Are you just talking

2177
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:09,679
about interior hallways? You're not

2178
01:19:09,679 --> 01:19:11,760
talking about where it's the 12 foot

2179
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:16,000
that they can extend by a roof.

2180
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,880
So the way our code currently reads, it

2181
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,199
doesn't have to be interior.

2182
01:19:21,199 --> 01:19:22,960
>> It can just be a breezeway that's

2183
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,040
connected by a common roof or

2184
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:25,600
>> wall.

2185
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:26,000
>> Yeah.

2186
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:27,840
>> Right. But that is defined by you can't

2187
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:29,120
do more than

2188
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:33,120
>> 12 feet, but we have let people do an

2189
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:37,120
interior hallway farther than 12 feet.

2190
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,360
>> Okay. And I And yeah, I didn't know

2191
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:40,880
that. I haven't seen that. So,

2192
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:42,560
>> and so that's what we need to change

2193
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:44,400
because we don't like that. I think

2194
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,920
that's part of this discussion. Yes. I

2195
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:49,600
council council member definitely

2196
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:50,159
doesn't like that.

2197
01:19:50,159 --> 01:19:50,960
>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

2198
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:53,120
>> Yes. Yeah. Thanks, Mara.

2199
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:56,239
>> Um, so this is the aerial image of this

2200
01:19:56,239 --> 01:19:57,520
property. Yeah. This is in Highland.

2201
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:01,600
This is a 60 footish length breezeway

2202
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:03,840
and this was considered attached under

2203
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:05,520
Highland's code and so that prompted

2204
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:07,360
them to change their code because no one

2205
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:14,560
liked that. Um, so they came up with this um Yeah.

2206
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,840
>> So they said that uh it shall include a

2207
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:19,600
majority or more to be attached and in

2208
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:21,760
common with the original dwelling. The

2209
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:23,600
connection shall be a majority of the

2210
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:26,159
length of the portion of the addition

2211
01:20:26,159 --> 01:20:28,880
that faces the main dwelling. And they

2212
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:31,520
have this graphic here. So they're

2213
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:35,520
saying uh 50% or more of this uh of the

2214
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:37,120
length of the building is attached. So

2215
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:40,560
this is considered attached. So is this.

2216
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,760
is not and this is not. And

2217
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,560
um I think this has benefits to it. And

2218
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,400
I also think this code actually isn't

2219
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:50,000
perfectly written because it says the

2220
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,960
connection shall be a majority of the

2221
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:55,360
length of the portion of the addition

2222
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:59,199
that faces the main dwelling. And this

2223
01:20:59,199 --> 01:21:02,719
portion which they're saying is what uh

2224
01:21:02,719 --> 01:21:05,199
determines the 50% is not facing the

2225
01:21:05,199 --> 01:21:07,440
main dwelling to me.

2226
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:11,280
Um, this is so so I think it's actually

2227
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:13,440
not written exactly right. Uh, I get

2228
01:21:13,440 --> 01:21:16,239
what they're doing though. Um, or for

2229
01:21:16,239 --> 01:21:19,440
example, this image, this portion that

2230
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:21,600
faces the main dwelling, more than 50%

2231
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,199
of this portion is attached. So, this

2232
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:24,560
should be considered attached according

2233
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:26,719
to the language that I understand. I

2234
01:21:26,719 --> 01:21:27,920
don't know if everybody else understands

2235
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:29,679
that the same way, but I think it's a

2236
01:21:29,679 --> 01:21:31,920
little poorly written, but this is their

2237
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:34,640
intent is that the length the longest

2238
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:37,920
length of the new addition coming in,

2239
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:39,520
>> half of that has to be touching and

2240
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:41,600
attached to that's where it should say

2241
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:42,800
the longest length.

2242
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:43,520
>> The longest

2243
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,280
>> Yeah. And so that's what I did. I I

2244
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:47,920
Let's see. I think I

2245
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:49,840
included that here. Yeah. So this is my

2246
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:53,040
rewriting of their code basically. So

2247
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:54,800
this is our code. So I take out this

2248
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,600
part with the 12 foot. To be considered

2249
01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:58,880
part of the main dwelling in addition to

2250
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:00,080
the original dwelling shall include the

2251
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:01,679
majority or more to be attached income

2252
01:22:01,679 --> 01:22:02,719
with the original dwelling. The

2253
01:22:02,719 --> 01:22:05,600
connection shall exceed 50% of the total

2254
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:06,800
dimension of the addition that is

2255
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:09,360
parallel to the side of the addition

2256
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:12,080
that faces the main dwelling.

2257
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:15,199
That was my imperfect attempt at

2258
01:22:15,199 --> 01:22:16,639
clarifying what they're trying to do

2259
01:22:16,639 --> 01:22:18,159
here.

2260
01:22:18,159 --> 01:22:19,520
Um, and then number two,

2261
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:21,520
>> did you just say

2262
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:26,000
50% of the longest side of the addition?

2263
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:26,639
>> Yeah.

2264
01:22:26,639 --> 01:22:28,159
it could it probably could be as

2265
01:22:28,159 --> 01:22:29,120
simple as that. Yeah.

2266
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:29,679
>> Okay.

2267
01:22:29,679 --> 01:22:31,760
>> Instead of just the part touching it,

2268
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:33,040
the longest side

2269
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:34,560
>> of the parallel.

2270
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,360
>> I I I just think the longest the longest

2271
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:38,159
side

2272
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:40,880
>> half of the longest side has to be

2273
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:42,159
attached.

2274
01:22:42,159 --> 01:22:45,040
>> Yeah, I think that's great to clarify

2275
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:46,480
this.

2276
01:22:46,480 --> 01:22:50,400
So this is an option. So um I I created

2277
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:52,400
this little part. So the options are

2278
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:55,440
kind of and this isn't the limit, but A,

2279
01:22:55,440 --> 01:22:58,080
B, and C. A is the one that we have

2280
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:00,000
already determined could work, which is

2281
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,000
just saying that anything over 12 is not

2282
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:03,600
attached.

2283
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:05,679
Um which would say that we would still

2284
01:23:05,679 --> 01:23:09,520
allow something like this in our city. I

2285
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:11,120
talked to Shane about this. I was like,

2286
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:12,800
just to be clear, does this is this

2287
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:14,080
considered attached in our building?

2288
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:15,360
He's like, "Yeah, I think that would be

2289
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:16,480
according to how our code's written

2290
01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:18,560
right now." So, this would be detached

2291
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,560
under Highlands and probably would be

2292
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:22,400
considered attached under ours. And he

2293
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:23,760
told me it would be

2294
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,880
>> because it has this connection

2295
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:28,239
>> doesn't have to be internal as it's

2296
01:23:28,239 --> 01:23:30,320
written right now.

2297
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:32,639
>> Common roof or wall.

2298
01:23:32,639 --> 01:23:34,239
>> Yeah.

2299
01:23:34,239 --> 01:23:35,679
>> It's nailed to the

2300
01:23:35,679 --> 01:23:37,840
>> Yeah. So, and there's a council me

2301
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:39,840
council member Hanamman doesn't like she

2302
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:41,679
wants it to be like Highlands Code for

2303
01:23:41,679 --> 01:23:43,520
example. I know for sure she wants it

2304
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,000
like more like this.

2305
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:47,679
>> Um,

2306
01:23:47,679 --> 01:23:50,080
>> so that aesthetically

2307
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:52,800
there are some styles. Mhm.

2308
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:53,199
>> Right.

2309
01:23:53,199 --> 01:23:55,840
>> I mean, I have a a home up at Fish Haven

2310
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,000
Idaho where I have a home that I've got

2311
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:00,880
a 60 by60 toy barn. It's connected with

2312
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:02,719
an Eastway like that. And if you look at

2313
01:24:02,719 --> 01:24:06,239
the style of the home and it's looks

2314
01:24:06,239 --> 01:24:07,679
like it's 100 years old with 100 year

2315
01:24:07,679 --> 01:24:08,719
old wood,

2316
01:24:08,719 --> 01:24:10,400
>> it matches where if someone were to say

2317
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:12,400
you've got to connect them different

2318
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:13,440
than that

2319
01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:15,360
>> would change the whole design of the

2320
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:16,400
>> Yeah.

2321
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:17,679
>> And I think that's that's one of the

2322
01:24:17,679 --> 01:24:20,159
limits of something like like that is

2323
01:24:20,159 --> 01:24:23,360
that topography or style like you're

2324
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:23,840
saying

2325
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:24,639
>> the exact same

2326
01:24:24,639 --> 01:24:26,880
>> it can prevent you from connecting.

2327
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:30,000
>> Yeah. But with the new ADU,

2328
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:33,280
I don't see why breezeways should be

2329
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:35,760
long and you know what I mean,

2330
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:36,080
>> right?

2331
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:37,600
>> I don't think we need that.

2332
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:38,320
>> Yeah,

2333
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:40,239
>> I think that's very lovely.

2334
01:24:40,239 --> 01:24:40,560
>> Yes,

2335
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:43,679
>> that little short breezeway is this is a

2336
01:24:43,679 --> 01:24:48,000
lovely design, but with the with ADUs,

2337
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:49,840
>> I think attaching it to the house makes

2338
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:50,960
more sense.

2339
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:52,480
>> Well, I think looking at this like we're

2340
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:54,000
like, "Oh, that's fine. This is not

2341
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:55,920
fine. So, what do we prevent?" I mean

2342
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:58,000
again to remember this is like 60 feet

2343
01:24:58,000 --> 01:24:59,360
long. [clears throat]

2344
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,000
>> So if we're talking 12 is the limit that

2345
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,080
would significantly reduce.

2346
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:04,480
>> Yeah.

2347
01:25:04,480 --> 01:25:06,800
>> Plus we know in our ADU code it has to

2348
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:08,800
be designed similar to the house.

2349
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:10,560
>> So if they are putting an ADU in and

2350
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:12,560
it's considered attached in this way it

2351
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:13,760
would have to look something like this

2352
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:15,520
that matches the home.

2353
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:16,639
>> Were you trying to say something? like a

2354
01:25:16,639 --> 01:25:17,360
little grandma.

2355
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:19,920
>> I'm also questioning I mean a council

2356
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,960
member that I talked with

2357
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:25,120
said that they wanted an ADU because

2358
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:26,960
they're getting older and they want to

2359
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:28,320
be able to make money and still live in

2360
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,520
Alpine and

2361
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,800
is tired of family members living with

2362
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:36,880
them playing their loud music at one in

2363
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:38,639
the morning and she'd rather that

2364
01:25:38,639 --> 01:25:40,320
they're actually further away in a

2365
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:42,880
separate building [laughter]

2366
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,199
and you can't say that. Plus also say

2367
01:25:45,199 --> 01:25:47,040
you want it to be attached,

2368
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:47,840
>> right?

2369
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:49,840
>> You know what I mean? I I don't know if

2370
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,159
I was renting a spot out, I'd want some

2371
01:25:52,159 --> 01:25:53,040
flexibility.

2372
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,679
>> Yeah. Maybe have some distance, I guess.

2373
01:25:55,679 --> 01:25:59,360
>> Yeah. Yeah. I That's true.

2374
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,159
>> So, one thing with making it attached,

2375
01:26:02,159 --> 01:26:04,159
if it's an ad, if you're going to use it

2376
01:26:04,159 --> 01:26:06,719
as an ADU, if you attach it, your height

2377
01:26:06,719 --> 01:26:08,320
can be taller.

2378
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:10,320
>> You can go up to that

2379
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:16,790
>> 30. Yeah, that 34 feet.

2380
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,440
to 30 or 25.

2381
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:20,080
>> Say that again.

2382
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:21,520
>> We limited it to 25.

2383
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:22,320
>> 25.

2384
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:24,800
>> If it's an ADU,

2385
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,719
>> this with a 12oot breezeway, could you

2386
01:26:28,719 --> 01:26:30,960
go 35 if the home is 35?

2387
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:31,280
>> Yes.

2388
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:36,149
>> Just by putting a 12oot breezeway.

2389
01:26:36,159 --> 01:26:37,360
» So, that's what we're deliberating

2390
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:38,320
tonight. Yeah.

2391
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:40,320
>> That's what we like that.

2392
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:42,239
>> Yeah.

2393
01:26:42,239 --> 01:26:44,960
But it would also not be a

2394
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,120
>> external ADU at that point, right?

2395
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:48,000
>> Correct.

2396
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:49,360
>> So then they could build another one.

2397
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:50,800
>> They can do it now.

2398
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:52,000
>> They can do this now. Yes.

2399
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:53,360
>> I mean, they can do it now.

2400
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:55,760
>> You could call this part of your house

2401
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:57,440
>> and then you could build an ADU.

2402
01:26:57,440 --> 01:26:57,760
>> Yeah.

2403
01:26:57,760 --> 01:26:58,560
>> Correct.

2404
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:00,080
>> They could rent this out.

2405
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:01,280
>> No, you couldn't rent them, but you can

2406
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:03,199
still put your kids in there.

2407
01:27:03,199 --> 01:27:05,040
>> They can do it now. So

2408
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:06,400
>> Well, I know they could do it now, but

2409
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:07,520
now they couldn't add the third

2410
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:10,790
building.

2411
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,199
So yeah, I mean again the difference is

2412
01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:14,960
>> if if they they're not allowed to do

2413
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:16,560
this type of breezeway thing or

2414
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:18,480
something and someone's really

2415
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:21,440
determined to have both like Michelle's

2416
01:27:21,440 --> 01:27:23,360
saying they could attach this on and

2417
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:24,560
then do another one or something and

2418
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,639
then they have

2419
01:27:26,639 --> 01:27:28,719
like if someone attaches their building

2420
01:27:28,719 --> 01:27:30,320
it can be it can match the house right

2421
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:31,520
that's what an addition is it just

2422
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,159
matches the house in any way and

2423
01:27:34,159 --> 01:27:35,840
>> so

2424
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:36,159
that

2425
01:27:36,159 --> 01:27:38,159
>> yeah

2426
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:40,239
I think the good thing about the 12 is

2427
01:27:40,239 --> 01:27:42,320
it matches our current code. It's easy

2428
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:45,360
to administer for staff uh because it's

2429
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:47,199
clear are you within 12 feet? Okay,

2430
01:27:47,199 --> 01:27:50,239
you're you're in attached addition then.

2431
01:27:50,239 --> 01:27:53,120
Um the bad thing is yeah, it could lead

2432
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:58,960
to people using that 12 feet or less to

2433
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:02,320
attach another structure. It's pretty

2434
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:04,080
substantial and this can be up to 34

2435
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:05,600
feet tall because it can match the house

2436
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,080
>> and still add a ADU if it's with meeting

2437
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:09,280
the offsets,

2438
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:12,960
>> right? If it only meets the offsets, but remember that. Yeah. If it's

2439
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:14,719
attached, it has to meet the setbacks of

2440
01:28:14,719 --> 01:28:17,120
attached, which is 30 feet front and

2441
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:17,600
rear.

2442
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:18,000
>> Yeah.

2443
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:19,520
>> A detached building doesn't have that

2444
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:20,480
deep of setbacks.

2445
01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:21,520
>> It's 15, right?

2446
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,560
>> It's 15 rear, 10 foot side. So, I feel

2447
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,000
like the height and setbacks kind of

2448
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:27,440
balance each other out.

2449
01:28:27,440 --> 01:28:29,199
>> Do you want to be attached? Great. You

2450
01:28:29,199 --> 01:28:30,639
can be really tall, but now you have to

2451
01:28:30,639 --> 01:28:32,719
be far away from your property lines.

2452
01:28:32,719 --> 01:28:34,080
>> If you want to be close to your property

2453
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:36,159
lines, you have to be detached. So, they

2454
01:28:36,159 --> 01:28:37,360
kind of bounce each other out. And it

2455
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:39,040
might it might not be as big of a deal

2456
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:43,990
as we think sometimes, but

2457
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:45,760
» and aesthetically there might be some

2458
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,280
instances

2459
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:50,320
where it being similar height as the

2460
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,320
existing structure. Aesthetically, it

2461
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:55,040
might be better. Maybe not always, but

2462
01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:57,120
in some instances like this one,

2463
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:58,560
>> I don't think you have like this little

2464
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:00,800
Watty house next to it looks a little

2465
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:02,719
flat roof next to this one. It would

2466
01:29:02,719 --> 01:29:05,199
>> it would look as good.

2467
01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:07,199
>> Yeah. And so let's see. Let me go back

2468
01:29:07,199 --> 01:29:09,440
to my options real quick. So A was just

2469
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:10,880
the option we talked about in the

2470
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:14,400
packet. B I think I just added on

2471
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:16,560
specifically that a bree a breezeway is

2472
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:19,040
not does not constitute a common roof or

2473
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:22,000
wall. So we could keep it the same and

2474
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,800
just add in this extra line that a

2475
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:27,120
breezeway doesn't count. It has to be

2476
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:28,400
attached by something a little bit more

2477
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:30,880
substantial like a like an enclosed

2478
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:32,880
hallway like Marlo was talking about and

2479
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:36,880
then we just keep the 12 and 12 foot or

2480
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,159
closer 12 foot or farther away part that

2481
01:29:40,159 --> 01:29:42,800
makes it either attached or detached. Um

2482
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:44,639
so that that's another option. We could

2483
01:29:44,639 --> 01:29:46,800
just say no breezeways allowed in this

2484
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:48,480
case but again that would take away this

2485
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:51,120
white house we've been looking at. Um

2486
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,120
and then option C is kind of doing

2487
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:57,280
something similar to Highland. So, and

2488
01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:00,320
is this a is this the limit of options?

2489
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:01,600
No, there's definitely more things we

2490
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:02,960
could consider as well, but this is what

2491
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:07,350
we have today. So,

2492
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:09,600
oh, okay. And I also added these images

2493
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,719
of port cochares, which are these

2494
01:30:12,719 --> 01:30:14,560
structures that allow people to kind of

2495
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:16,320
pull up and get out outside of the

2496
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:16,639
weather.

2497
01:30:16,639 --> 01:30:19,120
>> Is this the one that's in American Fork?

2498
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:19,679
>> Uh,

2499
01:30:19,679 --> 01:30:21,040
>> there's a beautiful one down there.

2500
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:22,480
>> Is there Okay. I think I just got these

2501
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:25,040
off the internet, so I don't think so.

2502
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:26,800
There's there's homes like that on

2503
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:27,840
Alpine Boulevard.

2504
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:29,840
>> There's there's definitely some homes

2505
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:32,639
like this in in our city.

2506
01:30:32,639 --> 01:30:34,000
>> How to rotate this, but

2507
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:35,360
>> I think that's a nice feature. I don't

2508
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,040
think we want to kash it.

2509
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:37,520
>> Yeah.

2510
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:39,920
>> So, to me, like I don't know. How do I

2511
01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:43,270
rotate this?

2512
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:45,600
» Oh, right here.

2513
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:46,400
>> Yeah.

2514
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:48,960
>> So, like to me, I I think that Highland

2515
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:50,560
would consider this detached, especially

2516
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:52,080
if it was added on later.

2517
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:52,560
>> Yeah.

2518
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:54,880
>> Right. And so I don't know if we want

2519
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:56,480
our code to restrict something like

2520
01:30:56,480 --> 01:30:56,960
this.

2521
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:58,800
>> No, I don't think so.

2522
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,280
>> You know,

2523
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:02,800
>> or like this. I mean, this

2524
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:05,760
>> once again, I think your home style,

2525
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:08,480
it's part of the architectural design.

2526
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:11,360
>> Yes.

2527
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:12,880
>> Yeah. Like to me, I think all of us

2528
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:14,080
would look at this and be like, that's

2529
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:15,920
an attached garage or something. You

2530
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:17,360
know, like it's Yeah. There's a little

2531
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:19,040
walkway here, but that's part of the

2532
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:19,440
house.

2533
01:31:19,440 --> 01:31:20,480
>> Yeah.

2534
01:31:20,480 --> 01:31:23,199
>> So, I don't know. So, um I don't want to

2535
01:31:23,199 --> 01:31:25,199
say for sure they would consider this

2536
01:31:25,199 --> 01:31:27,440
detached, but I think according to how I

2537
01:31:27,440 --> 01:31:30,400
read it that they would, especially if

2538
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:32,800
it's added on later or something. So,

2539
01:31:32,800 --> 01:31:35,040
anyway,

2540
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:38,080
and once again, and you went through it

2541
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:41,679
fast, if it's attached like that, it's

2542
01:31:41,679 --> 01:31:43,840
30 feet

2543
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:47,040
sides and back. Where it's 15 side, it's

2544
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:50,560
five back if it's detached. So someone

2545
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:52,480
could take and not put that east way

2546
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:53,679
there and they could stick it back in

2547
01:31:53,679 --> 01:31:56,239
the corner closer to their neighbors

2548
01:31:56,239 --> 01:31:57,679
which everybody always does, right? They

2549
01:31:57,679 --> 01:31:59,040
put the chickens in the furthest more

2550
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:00,639
corner from their house.

2551
01:32:00,639 --> 01:32:02,159
>> Yeah.

2552
01:32:02,159 --> 01:32:04,000
So So yeah, that's the thing is going

2553
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:06,400
back to this crazy image of the Highland

2554
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:08,320
had. Yeah. So I think

2555
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:10,800
>> like no one would there's this fear that

2556
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,199
if we allow 12 feet or less to be

2557
01:32:13,199 --> 01:32:16,080
attached someone's going to do this huge

2558
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:19,280
structure attached to their home but

2559
01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:22,239
again it's 12 feet so yeah sure they can

2560
01:32:22,239 --> 01:32:24,000
have this huge thing I guess within 12

2561
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:25,840
feet but

2562
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:27,120
one it has to match the home if they're

2563
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:28,880
going to do an ADU and then it can only

2564
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,600
be up to 25 feet right or no it can be

2565
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:33,440
up to the same but they would have to

2566
01:32:33,440 --> 01:32:36,320
match the home and design so anyway I

2567
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:38,320
don't So, like

2568
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:41,520
it seems like a non-issue overall, but

2569
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:43,280
we just want to make sure we're

2570
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,920
>> covering all our bases.

2571
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:48,719
>> Not to stir the pot here, but if it's

2572
01:32:48,719 --> 01:32:51,920
>> after discussing it, is you where you at

2573
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:54,080
with this?

2574
01:32:54,080 --> 01:32:57,120
>> I just don't like that you could put a

2575
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:59,120
third structure. I guess that's where my

2576
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:01,520
brain is going. Yeah, the pictures were

2577
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:03,840
very lovely. They were very integral

2578
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:06,080
part of the plan.

2579
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:10,800
>> But but if you do that and you have the

2580
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:13,120
law is running the right direction, you

2581
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:15,440
know, there's an if and an if and if to

2582
01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:20,159
everything, right? But they could put a third one

2583
01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:22,000
>> beats the system by building a second

2584
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:23,600
building, putting an easeway between

2585
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:25,280
them, and then building a third and it's

2586
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:25,840
detached.

2587
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:28,080
>> And that's where I kind of go

2588
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,400
>> mean, are you talking about two ADUs

2589
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,239
>> or just a

2590
01:33:32,239 --> 01:33:34,880
You could put your mom in there and rent

2591
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:36,719
out the other space. I mean, there's

2592
01:33:36,719 --> 01:33:39,920
nothing to say you can't

2593
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:55,669
>> Well, and I want to clarifying,

2594
01:33:55,679 --> 01:33:58,560
two dwelling units outside of the home.

2595
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:02,000
>> Yes. Like the goal is one the home plus

2596
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:03,040
one unit,

2597
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:03,360
>> right?

2598
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:05,120
>> It's not one plus the one for your

2599
01:34:05,120 --> 01:34:06,880
family plus the one for your renters,

2600
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:07,280
>> right?

2601
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:08,960
>> And so I think we're still trying to

2602
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:10,239
100% figure out how we're going to

2603
01:34:10,239 --> 01:34:11,360
manage that because the code clearly

2604
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:13,120
says you can only have one.

2605
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:14,719
>> If you have an internal ADU, you can't

2606
01:34:14,719 --> 01:34:19,520
have an external ADU or detach. So we're going to use the

2607
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:21,760
>> But everybody has a kitchen basement,

2608
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:24,639
you know, but yeah.

2609
01:34:24,639 --> 01:34:25,199
>> So

2610
01:34:25,199 --> 01:34:27,600
>> would this be Yeah, that was my

2611
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:30,159
question. This would be

2612
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:31,920
>> correct. So this would be an internal

2613
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:32,239
ADU

2614
01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:34,239
>> if it was licensed as an ADU. But they

2615
01:34:34,239 --> 01:34:35,199
don't have to license.

2616
01:34:35,199 --> 01:34:36,960
>> They don't have to if you put in family

2617
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:38,719
>> as long as I meet the setbacks and all

2618
01:34:38,719 --> 01:34:41,040
the other things and they're fine just

2619
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:42,800
part of the house.

2620
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:44,480
>> And it's impossible to manage every

2621
01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:46,400
situation. Like that's I think the the

2622
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:48,239
realization we came to today talking

2623
01:34:48,239 --> 01:34:49,120
about this is

2624
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:49,600
>> right

2625
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,920
>> we can't prevent someone from renting

2626
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:53,120
out something they shouldn't or

2627
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:56,320
whatever. But the goal is to

2628
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:57,040
>> to see

2629
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:59,600
>> removing the lot coverage and renewing

2630
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:03,199
that and then not tightening this up.

2631
01:35:03,199 --> 01:35:05,520
There is a possibility

2632
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:07,199
>> and that's that's a fair point.

2633
01:35:07,199 --> 01:35:08,320
>> Yeah.

2634
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:10,639
>> I don't like this picture that's up

2635
01:35:10,639 --> 01:35:11,920
because I feel like that little

2636
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,560
breezeway is too ticky tacky. Our

2637
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,880
ordinance says the the roofs have to

2638
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:17,840
match.

2639
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:19,440
>> But Michelle, if you were to take that

2640
01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:21,440
little breezeway out and scoosh those

2641
01:35:21,440 --> 01:35:23,520
two together, that's just part of the

2642
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:24,159
house.

2643
01:35:24,159 --> 01:35:24,800
>> Yes.

2644
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:26,639
>> A lot of people are using these for an

2645
01:35:26,639 --> 01:35:29,600
art studio, for a she shed, for the

2646
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:31,440
husband's office when he works from

2647
01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:35,280
home. They're doing taxes out of it. And

2648
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:37,040
we just have to say you're allowed to

2649
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:40,719
have one apartment per property and

2650
01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:42,159
trust that that's what people are going

2651
01:35:42,159 --> 01:35:43,520
to do.

2652
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:44,960
Whether there's a breezeway there or

2653
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:46,719
not, people are allowed to add on to

2654
01:35:46,719 --> 01:35:47,440
their home.

2655
01:35:47,440 --> 01:35:48,159
>> Oh, yeah.

2656
01:35:48,159 --> 01:35:50,800
>> And I agree with Greg that those homes

2657
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:53,280
that Kaden showed are gorgeous that have

2658
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:55,199
that little bit of a separation with the

2659
01:35:55,199 --> 01:35:56,320
right roof.

2660
01:35:56,320 --> 01:36:00,070
>> Oh, yeah.

2661
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:04,239
So if if you put somebody into this if

2662
01:36:04,239 --> 01:36:07,120
you built an accessory structure

2663
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:09,040
like say it was your artist studio or

2664
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:13,199
your garden studio when they put that in

2665
01:36:13,199 --> 01:36:16,719
is what's this set back to the front and

2666
01:36:16,719 --> 01:36:19,679
to the side and the rear?

2667
01:36:19,679 --> 01:36:20,960
>> Same as the house.

2668
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:22,639
>> Same

2669
01:36:22,639 --> 01:36:24,400
>> 30 on the rear 30 on the front.

2670
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,159
>> It's the same as the house. If it's an

2671
01:36:26,159 --> 01:36:28,159
accessory structure, does it go to the

2672
01:36:28,159 --> 01:36:28,880
10 ft

2673
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:30,800
>> right for the side property? Yeah.

2674
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:32,239
>> For the neighbors, it could actually be

2675
01:36:32,239 --> 01:36:35,750
more

2676
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:36,719
» as appealing or

2677
01:36:36,719 --> 01:36:37,440
>> Yeah. Exactly.

2678
01:36:37,440 --> 01:36:38,480
>> Worst case scenario.

2679
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:40,080
>> Exactly. To the neighbors, it's worst

2680
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:42,880
case scenario as you push this out and

2681
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:44,400
push it to them.

2682
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:46,239
>> Yeah.

2683
01:36:46,239 --> 01:36:48,960
So, if you allow this to be attached, I

2684
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:53,520
think you might get a few more attached

2685
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:56,159
additions, ADUs that are closer to the

2686
01:36:56,159 --> 01:36:58,800
house, that are taller, but again, that

2687
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:00,560
means they're farther from their

2688
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:02,560
neighbors.

2689
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:04,080
>> To balance Yeah.

2690
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:05,199
>> can bring it closer,

2691
01:37:05,199 --> 01:37:07,440
>> right?

2692
01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:09,199
>> They don't want those people close, they

2693
01:37:09,199 --> 01:37:11,679
won't do it.

2694
01:37:11,679 --> 01:37:13,840
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

2695
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:21,347
>> At the Exactly.

2696
01:37:21,357 --> 01:37:22,480
[laughter]

2697
01:37:22,480 --> 01:37:25,520
>> Okay. Are are there any more are there

2698
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:29,440
any more questions for Jason or Ken? If

2699
01:37:29,440 --> 01:37:30,560
not, I will

2700
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:32,320
>> Are we landing on an option here?

2701
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:34,080
>> Just to Yeah, just to say one more time.

2702
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:36,800
So, if Michelle if the concern is real

2703
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:38,800
that we're saying we like this, but we

2704
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:41,119
just don't want it to be a breezeway.

2705
01:37:41,119 --> 01:37:42,719
That's what option B was for.

2706
01:37:42,719 --> 01:37:45,040
>> Yeah. eliminate breezeways but allow

2707
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:48,239
other more substantial connections.

2708
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:50,800
So that is an option too. But

2709
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:55,040
>> the same thing for walls

2710
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:56,960
or something,

2711
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:59,520
>> right?

2712
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:01,360
>> So like something like

2713
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:02,719
>> Yeah. So something like this wouldn't be

2714
01:38:02,719 --> 01:38:04,159
allowed, but something like

2715
01:38:04,159 --> 01:38:06,159
>> something like this.

2716
01:38:06,159 --> 01:38:06,719
>> Yeah.

2717
01:38:06,719 --> 01:38:09,040
>> Because that's not a breezeway now.

2718
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:11,600
>> That is a carport of some sort. What do

2719
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:13,920
they call those? Port kosher. It's a

2720
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:15,520
French term.

2721
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:17,679
>> Port kosher,

2722
01:38:17,679 --> 01:38:20,239
which means carport. Yeah.

2723
01:38:20,239 --> 01:38:21,360
>> Yeah,

2724
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:22,719
>> I have the right term.

2725
01:38:22,719 --> 01:38:25,840
>> Okay.

2726
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:28,480
>> Yes, I'm okay. And Marlo was bringing up

2727
01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:31,119
interior walls, interior walkways. I

2728
01:38:31,119 --> 01:38:32,719
don't I didn't catch all that. I'm

2729
01:38:32,719 --> 01:38:36,229
sorry.

2730
01:38:36,239 --> 01:38:38,480
Like interior meaning like

2731
01:38:38,480 --> 01:38:40,320
>> if it makes a difference to you to have

2732
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:42,400
an open breezeway

2733
01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:45,360
walls on its

2734
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:49,199
so you don't get any breeze. It's f

2735
01:38:49,199 --> 01:38:51,760
>> no freeze breezeway.

2736
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:55,679
>> Okay. Just it was just connecting with

2737
01:38:55,679 --> 01:38:56,639
>> full material.

2738
01:38:56,639 --> 01:39:02,310
>> Yes.

2739
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:06,080
» Do you make the addition look like the

2740
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:08,080
main home?

2741
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:10,159
Is that in the code already? It's in the

2742
01:39:10,159 --> 01:39:12,400
ADU code that we're putting in, but is

2743
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:14,239
it in

2744
01:39:14,239 --> 01:39:14,880
this?

2745
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:16,239
>> Mara would know that.

2746
01:39:16,239 --> 01:39:19,760
>> I thought it was. Mara could maybe corre

2747
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:21,360
clarify.

2748
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:24,400
I thought it was

2749
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,199
>> if we don't like the main

2750
01:39:27,199 --> 01:39:28,639
>> Mara, do you know

2751
01:39:28,639 --> 01:39:29,920
>> what was your question?

2752
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:30,880
>> Double down.

2753
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:32,960
>> Do you know, Mara, if an addition is

2754
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:34,800
required to match

2755
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:37,280
>> the main structure

2756
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:39,440
>> in design?

2757
01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:41,840
When we had our attorney, David Church,

2758
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:44,000
he said, "We do we cannot regulate

2759
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:46,639
ugly." [snorts]

2760
01:39:46,639 --> 01:39:47,119
>> So

2761
01:39:47,119 --> 01:39:48,400
>> that's funny. [laughter]

2762
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:50,000
>> You can't fix stupid and you can't

2763
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:51,679
regulate ugly. Those are the questions.

2764
01:39:51,679 --> 01:39:53,840
>> So the only thing that can help that is

2765
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:56,960
if you're in a strict HOA and then they

2766
01:39:56,960 --> 01:40:00,159
could require certain materials.

2767
01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:02,560
>> Most people here in Alpine are are going

2768
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:05,760
to make it look nice.

2769
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,384
>> Not all except when they're not.

2770
01:40:08,384 --> 01:40:09,840
>> [laughter]

2771
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:11,840
>> But no, I do not know of an ordinance

2772
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:13,600
that says it has to match.

2773
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:17,040
>> Okay. Thanks, Mara.

2774
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:27,669
>> Okay. I will entertain a motion.

2775
01:40:27,679 --> 01:40:31,679
» So, what are we playing B off of?

2776
01:40:31,679 --> 01:40:34,239
>> Did you have a

2777
01:40:34,239 --> 01:40:36,000
>> Let me go to the motion real quick. I

2778
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,239
don't know if I said option A through C,

2779
01:40:38,239 --> 01:40:40,719
but you can you can include that as part

2780
01:40:40,719 --> 01:40:43,119
of your

2781
01:40:43,119 --> 01:40:46,400
um motion to approve with with

2782
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:49,040
conditions or something. Um and that

2783
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:52,080
would be for the

2784
01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:53,840
um

2785
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:55,679
>> I think that's what John's asking where

2786
01:40:55,679 --> 01:40:57,119
in the code.

2787
01:40:57,119 --> 01:40:58,960
>> Yeah, sorry.

2788
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:01,760
So, it's everywhere in the code, but you

2789
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:03,440
could just say under customary

2790
01:41:03,440 --> 01:41:05,040
residential accessory structures in

2791
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:07,679
every zone because it's in like five

2792
01:41:07,679 --> 01:41:10,080
spots in the code.

2793
01:41:10,080 --> 01:41:12,080
So, under customary residential

2794
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:14,639
accessory structures, I want to do

2795
01:41:14,639 --> 01:41:16,880
option A, B, or C.

2796
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:17,199
>> Okay,

2797
01:41:17,199 --> 01:41:19,440
>> this is option A.

2798
01:41:19,440 --> 01:41:21,199
>> Can you open up another window to put

2799
01:41:21,199 --> 01:41:23,360
the A, B, and C options side by side?

2800
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:25,840
>> Sure, let me do that. So what you wrote

2801
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:28,800
in the code is just saying you can't be

2802
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:30,480
more than 12 feet apart to be considered

2803
01:41:30,480 --> 01:41:31,119
part of the

2804
01:41:31,119 --> 01:41:34,080
>> Exactly. Attach that. That sounds pretty

2805
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:34,960
easy to me.

2806
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:35,600
>> Yes, exactly.

2807
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:36,880
>> It's definitely easiest for staff.

2808
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:38,800
>> That that's that's the one I That's the

2809
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,440
one I most flexible.

2810
01:41:41,440 --> 01:41:43,119
>> That's the one I prefer.

2811
01:41:43,119 --> 01:41:46,635
>> Cool. I like it. Sorry, Michelle.

2812
01:41:46,635 --> 01:41:49,270
[laughter]

2813
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:50,800
» This is going to be a historic night for

2814
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:53,119
you. Yeah,

2815
01:41:53,119 --> 01:41:56,320
>> it will be historic. [laughter]

2816
01:41:56,320 --> 01:41:58,000
>> The only question is whether Suz will

2817
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:02,550
join you.

2818
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:05,600
» Just a little ghost there. [laughter]

2819
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:07,520
>> Okay. I

2820
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,360
>> Can you get the uh proposal?

2821
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:14,709
>> Let me go back to the motion now. Yeah.

2822
01:42:14,719 --> 01:42:16,960
» So, I would like Are you open for

2823
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:17,600
motions?

2824
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:19,440
>> Yep. And I'm here.

2825
01:42:19,440 --> 01:42:21,360
>> I would like to motion to approve with

2826
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:23,280
the following move recommendation of

2827
01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:25,440
approval to city council of proposed

2828
01:42:25,440 --> 01:42:27,360
text amendments to development code as

2829
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:30,719
presented subject to the following uh

2830
01:42:30,719 --> 01:42:33,119
conditions and changes

2831
01:42:33,119 --> 01:42:36,960
that in I don't know exactly the

2832
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:38,639
conditional reference

2833
01:42:38,639 --> 01:42:40,719
>> customary

2834
01:42:40,719 --> 01:42:44,320
>> accessory buildings that we go with

2835
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:47,199
option A.

2836
01:42:47,199 --> 01:42:48,880
>> Okay. We have a motion by Greg

2837
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:50,719
Butterfield. Do I have a second?

2838
01:42:50,719 --> 01:42:52,000
>> I'm gonna second that.

2839
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:54,639
>> A second by Suz Wittenberg. Okay. Any

2840
01:42:54,639 --> 01:42:57,440
discussions on the motion?

2841
01:42:57,440 --> 01:43:00,400
>> Is that is option A adequate

2842
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:01,280
>> or do we need to say

2843
01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:03,440
>> that was our original proposal? So I

2844
01:43:03,440 --> 01:43:04,000
would say yes.

2845
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,000
>> Option A is option A is a 12.

2846
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:08,080
>> Oh for the motion. Yeah, you could say

2847
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:08,960
>> proposed

2848
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:11,119
>> option A as proposed in the packet today

2849
01:43:11,119 --> 01:43:13,360
or something. Yeah, that's fine.

2850
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:14,719
>> Yeah.

2851
01:43:14,719 --> 01:43:19,119
>> Okay. Any other discussion?

2852
01:43:19,119 --> 01:43:22,080
Okay, I'm gonna do a roll call vote.

2853
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:23,520
Troy Slade,

2854
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:24,320
>> yay.

2855
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:25,760
>> Michelle Shmer,

2856
01:43:25,760 --> 01:43:26,880
>> yay.

2857
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:27,920
>> John McCay,

2858
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:28,719
>> yay.

2859
01:43:28,719 --> 01:43:31,600
>> Jeff Davis, yay. Greg Butterfield,

2860
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:32,239
>> yay.

2861
01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:33,280
>> Suz Whittenberg,

2862
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:34,000
>> yay.

2863
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:38,719
>> Okay, it's unanimous. Okay.

2864
01:43:38,719 --> 01:43:46,149
>> Okay. Communications.

2865
01:43:46,159 --> 01:43:49,280
John uh Jason.

2866
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:54,159
>> Um so our our next meeting is on the

2867
01:43:54,159 --> 01:43:56,480
15th.

2868
01:43:56,480 --> 01:43:57,440
>> Yes.

2869
01:43:57,440 --> 01:43:59,760
>> And do we have items?

2870
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:01,760
>> We do. We will talk about a proposed

2871
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:04,080
development agreement which is a new

2872
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:05,280
thing for our city. We haven't dealt

2873
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:08,880
with them maybe at all but a developer

2874
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:09,920
proposing one.

2875
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:12,320
>> A developer agreement. development

2876
01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:13,040
agreement. Yes.

2877
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:14,159
>> Which means what?

2878
01:44:14,159 --> 01:44:17,520
>> Uh it's a a regulation allowed by state

2879
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:19,760
code to

2880
01:44:19,760 --> 01:44:24,239
basically one time modify your code to

2881
01:44:24,239 --> 01:44:25,760
come to an agreement with a developer

2882
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:28,320
about how they should develop their

2883
01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:30,000
properties.

2884
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,400
So it has it's the same process as a

2885
01:44:32,400 --> 01:44:34,560
code update like we've been doing today.

2886
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:36,239
So they have to have a public hearing

2887
01:44:36,239 --> 01:44:38,800
and the both the planning commission and

2888
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:40,159
city council have to determine if they

2889
01:44:40,159 --> 01:44:42,560
want that development agreement or not.

2890
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:44,960
>> Okay. So it's basically an exception.

2891
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:45,600
>> Yeah.

2892
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:47,199
>> It's basically an exception, but they

2893
01:44:47,199 --> 01:44:48,560
have to meet all these requirements that

2894
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:50,400
state code requires.

2895
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:50,960
>> Yeah.

2896
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:52,880
>> Can you get us to that? Get that to us

2897
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:54,239
faster than

2898
01:44:54,239 --> 01:44:54,800
>> Yeah, sure.

2899
01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:56,000
>> Right. If it's already done, we know

2900
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:57,520
what it is. We should get it. And I'll

2901
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:01,040
just say I the the exception is uh the

2902
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:03,119
developer is proposing to have a private

2903
01:45:03,119 --> 01:45:05,360
road instead of a public street for

2904
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:07,199
their development which our code does

2905
01:45:07,199 --> 01:45:09,040
not allow private roads but they're pro

2906
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:11,920
they're asking for that.

2907
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:15,199
>> Okay that's gate that's gated

2908
01:45:15,199 --> 01:45:16,159
>> not gated.

2909
01:45:16,159 --> 01:45:16,719
>> Okay.

2910
01:45:16,719 --> 01:45:18,960
>> It just helps them achieve one extra lot

2911
01:45:18,960 --> 01:45:20,080
on the property.

2912
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:20,880
>> Okay.

2913
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:22,560
>> And so and so they're willing to give

2914
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:24,960
concessions to the city to get that

2915
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:26,880
>> the approved widths. Yeah.

2916
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:28,239
>> Yeah. It will still meet all the other

2917
01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:29,679
code requirements,

2918
01:45:29,679 --> 01:45:30,880
>> but they're just they're willing to help

2919
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:34,239
the city devel

2920
01:45:34,239 --> 01:45:36,000
Yeah. needs

2921
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:37,840
>> to do that.

2922
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:38,080
>> Okay.

2923
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:39,199
>> And then I think there should be a

2924
01:45:39,199 --> 01:45:40,639
couple other items, but I can't remember

2925
01:45:40,639 --> 01:45:41,199
them right now.

2926
01:45:41,199 --> 01:45:42,320
>> Okay.

2927
01:45:42,320 --> 01:45:46,000
Um I will take a motion to approve

2928
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:48,239
the planning commission meeting minutes

2929
01:45:48,239 --> 01:45:53,669
from August 4th.

2930
01:45:53,679 --> 01:45:58,470
Any any changes? editions.

2931
01:45:58,480 --> 01:46:00,880
» I think it's the 18th.

2932
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:02,320
>> I put the wrong one in here. Sorry. I'll

2933
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:04,000
put in August 18th next time.

2934
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:06,719
>> Okay. August 18th.

2935
01:46:06,719 --> 01:46:08,320
>> Yeah, because I was like, we already did

2936
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:08,719
this one.

2937
01:46:08,719 --> 01:46:10,080
>> We already did the fourth. Sorry about

2938
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:10,639
that.

2939
01:46:10,639 --> 01:46:13,840
>> Okay. So, do I have a motion to approve

2940
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:17,840
the minutes from August 18th?

2941
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:19,760
>> Well, we don't have it before us, so we

2942
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:22,000
need to table it.

2943
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:24,639
Oh, what wasn't it wasn't it in our

2944
01:46:24,639 --> 01:46:25,040
packet?

2945
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:26,800
>> I accidentally included the fourth

2946
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:27,760
August 4th.

2947
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:29,679
>> Oh, so apologies.

2948
01:46:29,679 --> 01:46:31,600
>> So, we can't make a motion.

2949
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:34,080
>> Okay. So, we will put that on our next

2950
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:36,960
one. Okay. So, then I will

2951
01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:41,360
>> then I will take a motion to adjurnn.

2952
01:46:41,360 --> 01:46:44,560
>> Suz Wittenberg. [laughter]

2953
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:45,360
>> Second.

2954
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:48,159
>> Okay. And second by Michelle. Okay. All

2955
01:46:48,159 --> 01:46:49,360
those in favor say I.

2956
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:52,000
>> I. I. Any opposed? Okay. Motion

2957
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:55,600
adjourned or meeting adjourned.

2958
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:56,960
>> Thank you.

2959
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:57,760
>> Okay.

2960
01:46:57,760 --> 01:46:58,239
>> Great.

2961
01:46:58,239 --> 01:46:59,600
>> Thanks everybody.

2962
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:01,280
>> Good job.

2963
01:47:01,280 --> 01:47:06,400
I just I just wanted to know