[0:00] Okay, let's call to order. City Council
[0:03] meeting March 24th, 2026
[0:06] um for Alpine City Council. We'll start
[0:08] with a roll call. Um
[0:12] starting from Councilwoman Hanaman.
[0:14] >> Chrissy Hanaman here.
[0:17] >> Andrew Young here. Rmler present.
[0:20] >> Jessica present.
[0:21] >> Sarah Blackwell present. Okay, we'll
[0:24] have a prayer um le given by
[0:27] Councilwoman Haniman and a pledge led by
[0:29] Councilman Rumler.
[0:33] Our dear heavenly father, grateful for
[0:34] this opportunity to gather together and
[0:37] meet and discuss the business of the
[0:39] city and um hear from many good people
[0:42] who contribute to the uh well-being of
[0:46] our residents and things that we need to
[0:49] have accomplished. We're grateful for
[0:51] those that serve in every capacity and
[0:53] those uh staff that work hard to
[0:56] maintain so many of our programs and um
[1:00] facilities and um look out for us. And
[1:04] we're grateful for um the
[1:08] opportunity we have to exercise faith
[1:11] that we may get more water, more snow,
[1:13] whatever moisture we can muster. We're
[1:16] as a community because everybody needs
[1:18] it. And we see these things through
[1:19] Christ. Amen.
[1:20] >> Amen.
[1:21] >> Please rise for the pledge of
[1:22] >> allegiance
[1:27] to the flag of the United States of
[1:30] America and to the republic for which it
[1:33] stands. One nation under God,
[1:36] indivisible, with liberty and justice
[1:39] for all.
[1:42] » Okay, we'll move on to item two on our
[1:44] consent calendar or the consent
[1:47] calendar. Does anybody have questions
[1:48] regarding the items?
[1:50] >> Uh, I just I just had a quick couple if
[1:54] uh I'm pulling it up right now. Sorry.
[1:56] Uh
[1:58] everything was so fun before this
[2:00] happened that I didn't have time to uh
[2:02] pull it up. But basically, do you mind
[2:03] just explaining the surplus? It's the
[2:06] surplus, right?
[2:07] >> Yeah.
[2:07] >> The surplus, how that works because it's
[2:09] new for the the new two city councilors.
[2:13] >> Um just explain briefly. And then is
[2:15] this basically in regards to uh um
[2:20] mostly the park grass and things like
[2:21] that dealing with that? That's what I
[2:23] could glean from the different um uh I I
[2:27] I'm pulling up my notes, but that's what
[2:28] I could glean from the uh different uh
[2:31] machinery, what it's for, and then what
[2:33] we do we need to get new stuff. Is that
[2:35] what's going on?
[2:35] >> It's it's parks equipment. Um some of
[2:38] it, you know, our our previous parks uh
[2:42] head of our parks was
[2:44] very much mechanic and he would hold on
[2:47] to things a little longer because he
[2:49] could
[2:49] >> fix them up,
[2:50] >> parts off one or whatever.
[2:51] >> Sounds like my house.
[2:53] >> Yeah. And he he had a unique set of
[2:56] capabilities. And Troy's awesome with
[2:59] parts. He's just not as much of a
[3:00] mechanic as Cal. Um, but this is stuff
[3:03] like he didn't even use these mowers
[3:06] last year and this equipment and it's
[3:09] just taking up space and um he's our guy now and they have other
[3:16] mowers that they do use and have uh
[3:19] enough. So rather than just let them sit
[3:22] there and depreciate,
[3:24] we talked about it and and decided we
[3:26] should just sell these and um you know
[3:31] we might need something like a new piece
[3:33] of equipment like a different airator or
[3:36] something that's more efficient or
[3:38] something like that that we'd bring in
[3:39] the future maybe next year's budget.
[3:42] >> So it would just go back to new
[3:43] equipment the money that we get for it.
[3:46] >> Yeah, we just put it in a kind of an
[3:48] equipment replacement fund. Cool.
[3:50] >> Yeah.
[3:51] >> Last thing is just for for anyone, this
[3:53] is the time to air rate your lawn
[3:56] deatchch for for the for the summer
[3:58] coming up. We just did ours. It'll it's
[4:00] really important for this summer. That's
[4:02] all.
[4:02] >> Yeah. And if I mean, just so you know
[4:04] how this will be sold, we uh we post
[4:07] this equipment on public surplus. And I
[4:10] mean, we've we've sold equipment to
[4:13] Quebec, Canada before,
[4:16] uh a dump truck a few years ago. And I
[4:18] was shocked it went that far, but a lot
[4:20] of it goes around here. Some does go out
[4:22] of state and and different places.
[4:24] >> Maybe in the future we could make it so
[4:25] some of the residents could buy our off
[4:27] equipment. I've been buying equipment.
[4:29] >> They can get on there and buy anyone's
[4:31] welcome to bid. You don't have to have
[4:32] any kind of membership or anything like
[4:34] that.
[4:34] >> Well, maybe we give them a an early
[4:37] access or something.
[4:39] >> No, it has to be a fair and open bid.
[4:41] >> Competitive.
[4:41] >> Well, but not fair for them. They they
[4:43] get
[4:43] >> has to be fair and open.
[4:44] >> Fair and open.
[4:46] >> Oh, it does.
[4:47] >> Yes. Well, we got to change that. We got
[4:48] to give them a little benefit.
[4:49] >> No, I think that's
[4:50] >> I mean, they're the ones that paying for
[4:51] the equipment.
[4:51] >> Let's move on, guys. Okay. If there's no
[4:53] other questions regarding
[4:55] >> the consent calendar, I'll entertain a
[4:57] motion.
[5:01] » Let me see. I'll move to approve the
[5:03] consent calendar.
[5:05] >> Second.
[5:06] >> Okay. It's been moved by Councilman
[5:09] Rumler, seconded by Councilwoman Smeuan.
[5:12] Any further discussions or questions
[5:14] regarding the motion? If not, let's
[5:16] proceed with the roll call vote.
[5:17] Chrissy.
[5:19] >> Chrissy Henman. Yes.
[5:20] >> Andrew Young, yes. Brad Rama, yes.
[5:22] >> Jessica Smeuan, yes.
[5:24] >> Sarah Blackwell, yes.
[5:26] >> Okay. Consent calendar passes. We'll
[5:28] move on to
[5:31] um can I get a vote to switch around
[5:35] public comment to after the reports and
[5:37] presentations just because I know that
[5:39] we need to get the mayor to his city
[5:40] council meeting tonight.
[5:45] I move that we put item number three,
[5:48] public comment, after item number four,
[5:51] reports and presentations.
[5:53] >> Is there a second?
[5:54] >> I'll second.
[5:55] >> Okay, it's been moved by Councilwoman
[5:58] Blackwell, seconded by Councilman
[6:00] Rumler. Um, any questions regarding
[6:03] >> The only discussion is just if there are
[6:05] residents who are came in, if they want
[6:06] to make a public comment, you they a lot
[6:08] of them don't know the process. You get
[6:10] a card, you give it to uh Deianne, gives it to the mayor and that
[6:14] gives you approval to make a comment. So
[6:16] it'll be in like 20 30 minutes probably.
[6:18] >> Okay. Any um Okay. No further
[6:21] discussions. Let's proceed with roll
[6:22] call vote.
[6:24] >> Gracie Hanaman, yes.
[6:26] >> Andrew Young, yes.
[6:27] >> Brent Rler, yes.
[6:27] >> Jessica Young, yes.
[6:29] >> Senator Blackwell, yes. Motion passes.
[6:31] So we'll move on to reports and
[6:34] presentations item four and put public
[6:36] comment directly after. Um, let we'll
[6:39] start with the Highland Alpine Chamber
[6:40] of Commerce.
[7:04] The buttons just on the on the bottom
[7:06] part of the microphone. I got you.
[7:10] >> There we go.
[7:11] >> Is that working?
[7:12] >> Okay.
[7:13] >> All right. Thank you, mayor and city
[7:14] council for having me over today. Um, so
[7:17] my name is Rob Cwley. president of the
[7:19] Highland Alpine Chamber of Commerce. Um,
[7:23] just a quick intro about my background.
[7:25] So, I grew up in American Fork. We moved
[7:27] to Highland when I was uh still young
[7:30] and uh I went to BYU, got a masters in
[7:33] accounting there, worked for one of the
[7:34] big five CPA firms here in Salt Lake
[7:36] City for several years, became a senior
[7:38] auditor there. um left that and became
[7:42] more of a CFO controller type for many
[7:45] years and then became an entrepreneur
[7:47] and now I have ownership in about seven
[7:49] businesses and
[7:51] um a lot of fun. So that's a little bit
[7:54] about me. The uh I also was on the city
[7:57] council in Cedar Hills for a few years
[7:59] and uh
[8:03] with that I've I've always had an
[8:04] interest in politics. So, how this uh
[8:06] chamber of commerce came about, I'll
[8:08] just tell you the background on that. Um
[8:10] I was interviewing many of the
[8:12] candidates for uh Highland City Council
[8:15] and Ron Campbell uh current city council
[8:18] member there mentioned that he really
[8:19] thought we needed a Highland um chamber
[8:23] of commerce
[8:24] and uh I hadn't really thought about
[8:27] that until then, but it just kept
[8:29] popping up in my mind and about November
[8:30] of last year, I thought that would
[8:32] really help my businesses. I have seven
[8:34] of them and a lot of residents have no
[8:36] idea that I even have a business. So, um
[8:39] that city council idea kept rumbling
[8:41] around in my mind and we uh got a hold
[8:43] of Ron, got a hold of other businesses
[8:44] in the area and started formulating a
[8:47] plan to start the Highland City Council
[8:49] or Highland Chamber of Commerce and uh I
[8:53] have never seen an idea catch on so
[8:55] quickly. I went throughout the city
[8:57] asking people that were business owners
[9:00] and I think I talked to 70 business
[9:02] owners in the Highland area and I think
[9:05] I had two that seemed kind of eh I'm not
[9:09] interested and 68 were like yeah we
[9:11] really need that and so it became kind
[9:13] of a passion for a while to get that
[9:15] started. We actually incorporated
[9:17] beginning of February. Uh filed our
[9:19] 501c6 uh right around the same time.
[9:22] We've now got the approval back from the
[9:24] IRS that we're officially a nonprofit
[9:27] 501c6 and uh everything's in order and filed and everything. And uh we
[9:34] during our first organizing meetings
[9:36] back in January, uh Chris Lendell, who
[9:39] is the owner of um what is it? it's uh
[9:43] Anytime Fitness. He was he was on our
[9:45] kind of uh organizing board and he said,
[9:48] you know, Alpine really should be part
[9:50] of this and uh so that came up and we
[9:54] ended up having a vote in that meeting
[9:55] and it was about nine to zero to include
[9:57] Alpine and so from that we just decided
[10:01] to name it Highland Alpine Chamber of
[10:02] Commerce and uh the discussion was
[10:04] there's a lot of shopping patterns that
[10:06] are similar for the Alpine and Highland
[10:08] area. a lot of businesses are similar,
[10:09] the demographics are similar between the
[10:11] two cities
[10:13] >> and uh it just made sense. So we
[10:15] included Alpine in it from the beginning
[10:18] from that point I should say that was
[10:21] about uh January February time frame and
[10:24] I will say I'd been gathering interest
[10:27] between the businesses for several
[10:28] months by that point in Highland. So
[10:31] we're a little bit behind in in Alpine.
[10:33] But uh once we organized the beginning
[10:35] of February, it's been a little over a
[10:36] month, we've already got I think 29
[10:39] members of our Chamber of Commerce and
[10:41] for a month and a half, that's pretty
[10:44] remarkable. That shows how much interest
[10:46] there was. And uh it's growing every
[10:48] day. We we get new companies signing up
[10:51] daily. And uh we started contacting the
[10:54] Alpine area shortly thereafter, about
[10:57] February time frame. And it takes it
[10:59] takes a couple months to get the
[11:00] interest up uh to get the contacts and
[11:02] everything, but we're starting to get
[11:03] signups from Alpine Area 2. Hugh and him
[11:06] signed up recently. Anna Robinson, uh
[11:08] Hidden Gymn Spa, Ben Nilson, they became
[11:11] a sponsor company. Ala Bank is a sponsor
[11:13] company. Um Courage Reigns from Highland
[11:16] is a sponsor sponsored company. Golds
[11:18] crypto al um Pizza Pie Cafe. And now we
[11:22] have our first organizing, our first uh
[11:25] meeting or lunchon is planned for
[11:27] tomorrow at 11 over at Pizza Pie Cafe.
[11:30] So, a lot of momentum, a lot of
[11:32] excitement about it. And I feel like
[11:33] with um our push is going to be to
[11:36] introduce the residents to businesses, to the residents, and get
[11:41] people to shop local in by increasing
[11:43] the uh uh increasing the uh tax revenue
[11:48] for the cities. um because we are
[11:51] locally central to Alpine Highland area,
[11:54] then we feel like um that will be a big
[11:56] push of ours to get the people in this
[11:58] area to shop locally and increase the
[11:59] tax revenue. So, member benefits, if I
[12:02] still have time, I I think I'm right. Uh
[12:04] free admission to monthly lunchons,
[12:06] unlimited seats, one city appointed
[12:08] board seat. Um we have nine members of
[12:10] our board. Uh there's two empty spots.
[12:13] One is reserved for a um an Alpine city
[12:17] council member and one's reserved for an
[12:18] Alpine business because we're trying to
[12:20] even up the Alpine and Highland um board
[12:24] members. Um inclus inclusion as a
[12:26] trustee member in the chamber of
[12:28] publications marketing. Um so we'll
[12:30] always be mentioning Alpine City if
[12:32] you're part of our chamber. Um we will
[12:35] be the business development arm of the
[12:36] city. We'll help build build goodwill
[12:38] with business community and city. Um
[12:41] kind of act as a liaison between
[12:43] businesses and city um support Alpine
[12:46] City and the Alpine days. Uh we'd like
[12:48] to, you know, jump in and support as
[12:50] much as we can this year and increase
[12:51] that support each year. Um strengthen
[12:55] communication between city and business
[12:56] community and help businesses succeed um
[13:00] increasing the taxes of the city. So
[13:03] those are the goals. Uh I want to leave
[13:05] some time for people to ask questions of
[13:06] me or about the chamber, about myself,
[13:08] about uh our goals as a chamber. You
[13:12] guys have any questions?
[13:13] >> Rob, thanks for coming. Yeah, just real
[13:15] quick ones. Now, and this is as much for
[13:18] us as well. Can we only be part of one
[13:20] chamber?
[13:21] >> No, I think you can be part of
[13:23] >> as many as you want.
[13:24] >> So, this is not like a andor thing or it
[13:26] could be both or could be one of the
[13:27] other. Okay.
[13:28] >> Absolutely. Y
[13:29] >> um Yeah. And then I had one other that
[13:31] I'll remember as soon as someone else
[13:33] starts. So, go ahead.
[13:36] I was curious about um because I I do on
[13:40] some somebody said that we only have
[13:42] like 12 retail. Do you know what is our
[13:44] what can you spec can you tell me about
[13:47] your research on Alpine businesses and
[13:49] what are their retail establishments and
[13:51] what's your goal specifically?
[13:53] >> This this explains why it's so needed.
[13:56] Um, I've already found about a hundred
[13:58] Alpine businesses and I think we'll end
[14:00] up with 200 at least once we dive into
[14:02] the in-home businesses and people have
[14:04] no idea these businesses are here. Um,
[14:07] and so we plan on publishing uh a list
[14:10] of businesses in Alpine and Highland
[14:12] eventually here uh probably late summer
[14:15] and trying to get that out to all the
[14:17] residents so everyone knows, hey, if I
[14:19] need someone to trim my trees, there's
[14:21] one or two options right here. I don't
[14:23] have to call someone from Provo down to
[14:25] trim my trees or if I need someone to
[14:27] fix my sprinklers. We have uh all the
[14:29] resources we need for 90% of our
[14:31] business needs within Highland and
[14:33] Alpine. And so that's that's a beautiful
[14:35] thing about it. So far I found 130
[14:38] Highland businesses and about 100 Alpine
[14:40] businesses.
[14:42] Um, okay. I work in Alpine
[14:45] >> and um, under this Alpine address, I
[14:48] think I had counted today because I'm
[14:50] working on registration with the state,
[14:52] 11 entities, but all of our operations
[14:54] are out of state.
[14:56] >> So, when you say that there's a hundred
[14:58] like I'm or 200 and I worked in I've
[15:01] worked this is my third job with Alpine
[15:04] address business license
[15:06] >> and most of the operations are not
[15:08] conducted inside of the city. Um, and so
[15:12] I'm I'm still trying to figure out what
[15:14] our needs are as a city for the the
[15:17] Chamber of Commerce. Um, we do have a
[15:19] few retail things like uh Alpine
[15:21] Fitness, which like you said is Anytime
[15:24] Fitness or
[15:25] >> um what are some other guys? Oh, Hugh
[15:28] and Ham, you did say that. You know, so
[15:31] I'm trying to understand how you
[15:32] perceive our needs to be because
[15:34] although I have 11 entities registered
[15:36] in the state of Utah with an alpine
[15:38] address, zero zero business activity
[15:41] happens in the state. So how does that
[15:44] work?
[15:45] >> Zero business activity happens in the
[15:47] state. I don't get that.
[15:48] >> We have all our operations are out of
[15:50] state.
[15:51] >> Oh, for your business? Okay.
[15:52] >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like I if
[15:54] you went to the secretary of state and
[15:56] looked at all the businesses registered
[15:57] in Alpine, like we have zero like
[15:59] business operations here, but they're
[16:01] registered here because our headquarters
[16:03] are here. Oh,
[16:04] >> okay. That makes sense. Um I I think the
[16:07] one of the biggest goals I have is to
[16:09] help the residents know what businesses
[16:11] are here, the inhome businesses, the
[16:14] storefront businesses, and help dispel
[16:16] the the idea that they have to go
[16:18] outside of Alpine and Highland area to
[16:20] shop. So of the like one or 200 hundred,
[16:22] there may be more that would be like
[16:24] more retail in nature where like mine
[16:27] are not obviously.
[16:28] >> Well, for instance, one of my neighbors
[16:30] um they have a caramel apple company.
[16:33] They sell caramel apples. No one would
[16:34] have known that they do that if they
[16:36] don't get their word out. And so we're
[16:37] going to have them on our list. If you
[16:39] want to buy caramel apples, you can buy
[16:40] it from them. Um another one of my
[16:43] neighbors is is a plumber. You know, he
[16:45] works on the side. Um well he he does
[16:48] plumbing and he does landscaping and all
[16:49] kinds of different things. But um yeah,
[16:51] I think we'll a lot our eyes will be
[16:53] opened as to how much business there
[16:55] really is here because there's so many
[16:56] people that are trying to make ends
[16:57] meet. They have a full-time job. They
[16:59] want to progress in life so they have a
[17:01] business in the side. So I think I think
[17:03] you'll be surprised once we get our
[17:05] lists out of how many there are here.
[17:07] >> Okay. Thank you.
[17:09] >> Other questions?
[17:10] >> Yeah. Just along those same lines of I
[17:13] how have you gone about identifying
[17:14] those inhome businesses? My daughter
[17:16] Renza, she handmakes um and embroideries
[17:20] things for people and and I see this as
[17:22] like a great way for her to be able to
[17:24] get, you know, the word out like you
[17:26] said. And I've seen shop local campaigns
[17:29] be very successful, especially in
[17:31] communities our size where we maybe
[17:33] don't have a lot of storefronts, but we
[17:35] do have a lot of people that work very
[17:38] hard and have a lot of side jobs. So,
[17:40] what would your shop local initiative
[17:42] look like?
[17:44] Well, that's going to be a big part of
[17:46] every one of our meetings, helping
[17:48] identify additional businesses that we
[17:49] are unaware of. And once you start
[17:51] publishing and getting word out there's
[17:53] these businesses, then people will start
[17:54] contacting. I just keep my eyes open.
[17:56] The other day I was driving down the
[17:57] street and saw a sign for a small engine
[18:00] repair. And I called the number, ended
[18:02] up being a 15year-old. And I thought, I
[18:05] need small engine repair all the time.
[18:07] I'm always driving to American Fork to get that done. So just keeping your
[18:11] eyes open and asking around and once we start publishing here's a list
[18:15] of all businesses and if your business
[18:17] isn't listed call this number they'll
[18:19] come out of the woodwork more but
[18:21] already they're coming out of the
[18:22] woodwork really fast for me.
[18:24] >> So what would that publication look
[18:25] like? That's what I'm
[18:27] >> Does that go to each home? What how do I
[18:29] know? So, we're we're putting a lot of
[18:32] our already we've got $8,000 in sales
[18:35] and most of that budget is scheduled or
[18:38] at least half of it is scheduled for
[18:40] events and publication. We're putting
[18:41] more towards a publication than anything
[18:43] else, but there's a lot of advertising
[18:45] that goes into the publication. So, I'm
[18:47] expecting a loss the first year and our
[18:48] revenue, we've already got enough
[18:50] revenue to cover a loss, but just
[18:52] depends on how much money we have and
[18:54] how much advertising we get. I'd love it
[18:56] to go to every resident. Um, that's the
[18:59] goal.
[19:00] >> Okay. Thank you.
[19:02] >> Anybody else?
[19:06] » Yeah, just two questions. How much does
[19:08] it cost for a municipal municipality to
[19:10] join? Just
[19:11] >> So, we're charging $2,500 this year.
[19:14] It's uh
[19:16] pretty low, but we're new. You know, we
[19:18] don't want to oversell ourselves, so I
[19:19] think that's fair fair first year price.
[19:22] >> And what do you see as a value ad for a
[19:24] city to be part of the chamber? The list
[19:26] I went through um covers it covers most
[19:29] of what I could think of. But I wanted
[19:31] to ask you all too what what besides the
[19:35] list that I gave. Maybe you could put
[19:36] that
[19:38] >> presentation.
[19:39] >> Oh, they don't. Oh, okay.
[19:41] >> Oh, okay. Yeah, I could go over those
[19:44] again. Um,
[19:45] I I think I think the biggest uh
[19:48] advantage is just connecting businesses
[19:51] and helping businesses grow in the area,
[19:54] but that helps the city because the city
[19:56] gets revenue from the local businesses.
[19:59] Um, and just being a place where you can
[20:02] say, "Hey, come to Alpine with your
[20:05] business." Or I don't know if that's a
[20:07] goal of Alpine, but but if you come to
[20:09] Alpine with your business, there is a
[20:10] chamber of commerce that will help you
[20:11] succeed. So, it really helps the whole
[20:13] community
[20:14] >> and I think some budget goes to
[20:16] community development for every city.
[20:21] » Thank you, Heidi. That's helpful.
[20:22] >> Oh, that's helpful. Thanks. Um, but I'm
[20:24] also very open. I I'd love to hear if
[20:27] there's not something on our list, what
[20:29] is is there that I could do to help? I
[20:31] mean,
[20:31] >> well, it's the Well, you chatted earlier
[20:33] and it's the thing I brought up where uh
[20:36] we have a lot of business pro people,
[20:39] but we live in a town that is very
[20:42] sensitive to business overkill,
[20:44] overgrowth, overwhelm.
[20:46] >> Yes.
[20:47] >> And not the business. It's almost not
[20:49] the business. It's more of the side
[20:51] effects
[20:52] >> of even a successful business. So, maybe
[20:54] just something there where you we can
[20:55] balance the uh the identity of Alpine
[21:00] which is quiet, safe, low traffic, low
[21:03] tax.
[21:04] >> Um,
[21:05] >> and even though you won't have
[21:06] businesses like building huge buildings
[21:08] here, I think that uh the homebased
[21:12] business is getting a little more
[21:14] traction, probably is in line with
[21:16] Alpine Cities.
[21:17] >> That's the only thing I could see added.
[21:19] >> If the city decides not to join as a
[21:23] community member, are Alpine businesses
[21:25] still are you going to still allow them
[21:27] to join your chamber?
[21:28] >> Absolutely. Yeah, it would be nice to
[21:30] have the partnership with ship with the
[21:32] city and for instance, Highland City has
[21:34] already asked that we we have a bigger
[21:37] list of businesses than they have. And
[21:38] so they've asked us to help them find
[21:41] advertisers for the um their events
[21:44] coming up in the summertime for their
[21:46] advertisements. And just like that with
[21:48] Alpine Days, we do the same thing. We'd
[21:50] send out an email notification. Hey,
[21:51] they're looking for advertisers. If if
[21:54] you'd like your business to advertise,
[21:55] here's who you contact. So, kind of in
[21:57] partnership with all of your events and
[21:59] things like that, we we'd love to be an
[22:02] assistance there. An assistant there.
[22:05] So,
[22:05] >> thank you very much. Appreciate your
[22:07] time.
[22:07] >> Yeah.
[22:08] >> Oh, I did have one question since we
[22:09] don't didn't get a copy of your
[22:11] presentation. Is that going to be
[22:12] available?
[22:13] >> Yeah, Heidi can send that out.
[22:15] >> Okay.
[22:16] >> One last comment, too. The city of uh of
[22:20] Highland voted five to zero to ex accept
[22:23] become a member of the chamber. We
[22:25] haven't got that ironed out. It's it's
[22:26] pending the memorandum of of of
[22:28] understanding, but Candace from from
[22:30] Highland City already called me up and
[22:32] said, "Hey, there's a business that
[22:33] called the city, wanted to know about
[22:35] the resources." She hooked me up with
[22:36] her. I gave her some advice. I I've been
[22:39] a business consultant for over 25 years.
[22:42] And and as a chamber president, I feel
[22:43] like a little bit of free advice to
[22:45] every business is in order. So, just
[22:47] talked to her for 20 minutes. But just a
[22:49] I think it's just a good re resource to
[22:51] have the um uh chamber of commerce
[22:54] available to the city. So
[22:55] >> I do like the idea of having like a
[22:57] locals list because sometimes
[23:00] we we call it the alpine tax. We So if I
[23:04] have a repair to be done in one part of
[23:06] town and I say one address versus this
[23:09] address,
[23:10] >> we get a different price. So it'd be
[23:12] nice to know who's local. Thank you.
[23:15] >> Okay. Um, America Fork Chamber of
[23:18] Commerce is next.
[23:23] » Thank you for allowing us to take some
[23:25] time. Uh, by introduction, my name is
[23:28] Brad Frost. Um, I'm the president of the
[23:30] American Fork Chamber. And I will say
[23:33] that we have a a PowerPoint. I'm
[23:36] understanding that you'll get that. So,
[23:38] I'm just going to kind of go off the
[23:39] cuff because I think that PowerPoint
[23:41] will tell a lot of things. Actually,
[23:43] anything that they had had to be here by
[23:45] Friday. So, this is new. So, if you want
[23:49] to show a slide, let me know at all.
[23:51] >> It would be what you received today.
[23:53] Send.
[23:53] >> Yeah. No, and it's in front of them. So,
[23:55] you just tell me what you want.
[23:56] >> You got that today. Okay. You know what?
[23:58] I was under the impression maybe it was
[24:00] there. Thank you very much. So, um,
[24:05] uh, I am a mayor of American Fork and I
[24:07] appreciate the accommodation because I
[24:09] will be on that side of the the rostroom
[24:11] here shortly. But, uh, I don't want you
[24:13] to feel rushed at all. We can take our
[24:15] time and they can start without me if
[24:17] they need to. But, uh, my background is
[24:21] people. It's what I've always loved to
[24:24] do is be a part of people. uh to form
[24:27] relationships,
[24:29] um get close to people, to understand
[24:31] who they are, what they do, and I think
[24:33] it just makes the world a better place
[24:35] when you find that out about each other.
[24:37] And I think that's one of the chamber's
[24:38] real um fun foundational goals is to
[24:42] learn and to connect. And so I want to
[24:45] tell you just a little bit about the
[24:46] American for Chamber. Just uh the
[24:48] structure of the chamber as you see in
[24:51] this slide, we've been around for 80
[24:54] years. We we've been around a long time.
[24:57] We will celebrate that 80y year mark in
[24:59] on May 2nd of this year. I started um up
[25:02] in the chambers of city hall in American
[25:04] Fork and it's going strong. It's a very
[25:07] vibrant um organization.
[25:11] We have an executive board that
[25:13] comprised of four members of the of the
[25:16] governing board. The governing board is
[25:18] uh made up of 13 individuals that
[25:21] they're from different cities within the
[25:24] chamber that have the heart to volunteer
[25:26] and be a part of this organization.
[25:30] We have added three ex official members
[25:34] as well. We have a member of Senator
[25:37] Mike Lee's staff that is there to not
[25:40] vote, but just to advise and to give
[25:43] consent and things like that as we meet
[25:46] as a chamber board along with Kate
[25:48] Christopherson, a representative from
[25:50] the state of Utah. And uh we'll have one
[25:53] more in about a month. But we just felt
[25:55] like it was kind of helpful to have
[25:57] people around us as well to maybe point
[26:00] out things that we're not seeing. Now, I
[26:03] do not want to make this sound or feel
[26:05] in any way that we are big and they are
[26:07] small. Um, because uh that is not my
[26:11] intent, but I can't help but just talk
[26:13] about the structure and what I see and I
[26:17] view on almost every day. And when we
[26:20] get together, it's a big event. It's a
[26:23] big tent.
[26:25] And in that tent, there is plenty of
[26:27] room for the big corporations that we
[26:31] all know. If you can change to another
[26:33] slide, maybe the the second or the third
[26:36] slide.
[26:39] » Yes, thank you.
[26:42] But the great thing about this big tent
[26:45] is that the bigger corporations are the
[26:48] people inside them. They look after and
[26:51] they will nurture the small ones.
[26:54] They're there to be a resource to them.
[26:57] They will even um offer up their their
[27:00] physical space,
[27:02] >> but maybe more importantly their time to
[27:05] be a part of this synergy of a chamber.
[27:10] Um
[27:12] a couple things that we do I think that
[27:13] are very unique. Okay. Because we know
[27:16] that it's a it's a changing landscape in
[27:20] business. And so we offer training.
[27:23] Last month we did cyber no this coming
[27:26] week we're doing cyber security and
[27:28] website optimization that can fit the
[27:32] home business it can fit a larger
[27:34] corporation and we'll have all
[27:35] represented there um AI integration into
[27:40] the into your marketing again one of
[27:42] those things that can be a very basic
[27:44] fund fundamental principle in any
[27:46] business big or small
[27:49] um
[27:51] we um feel very
[27:56] um we feel good about how we are
[27:59] interacting with our communities
[28:01] understanding that Alpine is not in the
[28:04] name of the American Fork Chamber. We
[28:07] have the Lump Business Alliance
[28:10] that was uh formed about five years ago
[28:14] and inside that we have Cedar Hills.
[28:18] Formerly we had Highland and we're
[28:20] hoping to keep um Alpine into into that
[28:23] alliance and it's a way of I think maybe
[28:27] for what I would explain is to kind of
[28:29] pull the American Fork name away and
[28:31] give you some identity but there's
[28:33] nothing greater than having the synergy
[28:36] of multiple communities and we will use
[28:39] that I connected today with the PG Lynen
[28:42] Chamber and the Point of the Mount
[28:44] Chamber. We're planning an event and all
[28:47] our chamber members will be welcome to
[28:49] attend that event. It'll be at UVU. We
[28:52] are hosting a women in business um panel
[28:56] and we've got some really fun people
[28:58] that are coming to that. And so that's
[29:01] when the synergy of all the chambers
[29:03] come together to provide resources and a
[29:07] place for people to connect to talk
[29:09] business and to talk pleasure to make
[29:12] life a little bit better. One of the
[29:15] things and I just want to mention it
[29:16] very briefly but it's something that I'm
[29:19] very excited about and it's a it's found
[29:21] in just a small story and I was watching
[29:23] a video probably one of them mindless
[29:26] times where you just kind of scroll. I
[29:28] kind of have fun seeing how creative
[29:30] people can be on Instagram and how they
[29:33] could just do silly things. Gentleman's
[29:36] at Starbucks
[29:38] and he has his coffee and he he has an
[29:43] exchange with the person behind it and
[29:45] he says, "Wait, it's not done." And the
[29:48] gentleman hands it back and he says, "I
[29:52] need a little love in it." And so she
[29:54] just sprinkled a little love. And it was
[29:58] how she replied back to him. He says,
[30:00] 'How much is that going to cost? And he
[30:02] said, she said, love is free. So we're
[30:06] going to take that love is free. We've
[30:08] kind of encircled what it is, what we
[30:10] can do with it, and we're going to make
[30:12] that a drip campaign and we're going to
[30:14] pull that along with us in the coming
[30:16] years to think that we can talk
[30:18] business. there's a point of there's an
[30:21] exchange there's a return
[30:23] but along the way the love is free and
[30:26] we can kind of bring up society. We
[30:29] think that that that's not a bad thing
[30:31] to do along the way. So that is very
[30:34] briefly some of our that's just a a
[30:37] brief introduction to what it is and I'm available for questions now and I
[30:43] can I'll be leaving another piece of
[30:45] information and I would welcome a phone
[30:47] call at any time in the coming weeks to
[30:50] help satisfy any of your questions.
[30:52] >> How long has Alpine been a participant
[30:54] in your organization?
[30:56] >> Officially in the Lone Peak Alliance
[30:57] about almost five five and a half six
[31:00] years. And what level of participation
[31:02] have you seen from Alpine businesses and
[31:04] what kind of benefits have you seen them
[31:07] get over those five years? Um,
[31:10] sparse. We we've had uh we've had some
[31:15] notables like the the Arts Center and in
[31:18] fact for every business big or small, we
[31:20] have a landing page where you can
[31:22] actually host your website. It's in our
[31:24] directory and I can think of probably at
[31:28] least three. Now, I will say this, I've
[31:31] been on the job for three weeks and I'll
[31:33] know more in three more weeks. Uh, but
[31:37] there's room to be had done in Alpine.
[31:41] What I have learned about a chamber is
[31:43] that you you get you get back what you
[31:46] put into it. So, we'll ever be in front
[31:48] of people trying to show them the just
[31:52] the the things that can help them in
[31:54] their business. Some see it and some
[31:56] don't, and that's okay. some of your big
[31:59] corporate tenants. I'm thinking what's
[32:00] their ROI on a big corporate tenant? And
[32:03] then I've learned that Alphab Bank loves
[32:05] to feel that make people feel like they
[32:07] are part of the community. They want to be literally be in the
[32:12] fabric and so they choose the chamber as
[32:15] one of those avenues so that they can be
[32:17] part of something grand. And they do it
[32:20] not here but they do it Provo, they do
[32:21] it in Spanish Fork. They're everywhere.
[32:24] And so we offer that to them as a and
[32:27] they're a great partner. Same with IHC
[32:29] Inter Mountain Health like that. So
[32:33] Councilman Rumbler, I can I can research
[32:35] that and I can absolutely give you, you
[32:38] know, exact data if you're okay with
[32:41] that.
[32:41] >> Sure.
[32:44] >> Anybody else have questions?
[32:45] >> What What's the cost on that we're
[32:47] paying currently on the American Fork
[32:49] one?
[32:49] >> So community partner is $3,500.
[32:52] >> That's yearly. These are both yearly,
[32:54] >> correct?
[32:54] >> Okay.
[32:54] >> Y
[32:58] » um is this question just for Brad? I had
[33:00] a question for you.
[33:03] >> I I was actually assigned to this and I
[33:05] went to many of your meetings and it was
[33:08] good to connect and see like how all the
[33:10] cities are well really how all the
[33:12] businesses are, you know, operating and
[33:15] we talked about transportation once. Um,
[33:18] we had a report from every mayor, state
[33:20] of the city reports and u
[33:23] >> there was one of them that was kind of
[33:24] lacking. I know it was kind of boring
[33:26] and
[33:27] >> No, it wasn't. It was awesome. So, I do
[33:30] and I did uh like meet a lot of people
[33:33] in the general area um just to share my
[33:37] experience with those. And then I I did
[33:40] have I'll just be honest like I thought you were very accurate that I
[33:45] would try and ask people, oh, where are
[33:46] you from? you know, where's your
[33:47] business? Where's your And there was so
[33:48] very little participation from Alpine.
[33:51] There was and then we had to highlight
[33:54] um a business and we were struggling to
[33:57] find some some that like were actually
[33:59] participating in the chamber. So, you
[34:02] know, between um that limited experience
[34:06] I've had, Carla is the expert. She goes
[34:08] to far more things than I've ever gone
[34:09] to and has been in that role longer. But
[34:12] I was as I don't I haven't quite
[34:14] understood as like a city person and
[34:18] you're you you're wearing two hats here,
[34:20] right? Because you you you're elected.
[34:22] How we can um generate the commercial
[34:27] part of our city without our residents
[34:31] becoming um alarmed.
[34:33] >> Yeah. So I I think that like you guys
[34:36] have a very much like American Fork and
[34:38] other even Highland and Cedar Hills have
[34:40] a very robust retail area which we lack
[34:44] and so I think that that's why we have
[34:46] sparse participation but I would like
[34:48] your insight into both you know our role
[34:51] is um developing more commercial
[34:54] business in the city and then our the
[34:57] role of the c the com um chamber of
[35:00] commerce like increasing that because I
[35:03] haven't I I don't really have a good
[35:06] feeling for what needs to happen or if
[35:08] it's a good fit.
[35:09] >> Yeah. Well, you won't like my answer.
[35:11] And you know, I think I think that
[35:14] Alpine, as I have observed over the
[35:17] years, you like the quaint almost the
[35:20] bedroom community.
[35:21] >> They do.
[35:21] >> The only way to generate it would be
[35:24] when I turn that little corner, just put
[35:25] about 300 units. Go seven stories. Maybe
[35:29] Walmart will follow you.
[35:31] >> Wait, what?
[35:32] >> Okay. But but
[35:33] >> you're absolutely right. Not only
[35:36] >> not only will I not like it, but none of
[35:38] the people that elected me would be
[35:40] happy.
[35:40] >> But there there is an interesting there
[35:42] is a an interesting shift in business.
[35:45] >> There's a interesting shift in business
[35:48] >> shift. Okay.
[35:48] >> And I and I have seen it on our sales
[35:51] tax reports and that is the point of
[35:54] sale for us is the home. I mean I mean
[35:58] you would think that u American Fork we
[36:00] have a very robust um commerce. We are
[36:04] we're on a hub of a lot of different
[36:06] things there. The the the lake just kind
[36:08] of turns everybody right there. And for
[36:11] the first time I'm seeing Amazon surpass
[36:14] our car dealers.
[36:16] >> Wow.
[36:17] >> In in total J revenue month by month.
[36:21] And so they it's even last year they
[36:23] Amazon combined. So the point of sale is
[36:27] at the door. That's a very strong has to
[36:29] be an increased revenue source for
[36:31] Alpine. And as a chamber, we can help
[36:34] support those small small homegrown
[36:38] business, but they've got to be able to
[36:39] turn it and put it on your zip code. So
[36:43] the point of sale stays within your
[36:45] city.
[36:47] >> So yeah, we were a little bit afraid of
[36:49] that. We thought the brick and mortar is
[36:50] going away, but we've noticed that the
[36:52] trend is going that direction. And we've
[36:55] discussed that as a board and how we can
[36:57] help support that. Um um not just for
[37:00] the good of the city, for the good of
[37:02] people. If that's way like to conduct
[37:04] business, and it is a trend, we're
[37:06] becoming a a society that likes things
[37:08] quick and easy and to our doorstep.
[37:11] Pretty soon it'll be drones. You might
[37:13] not like that one. I don't know. I We'll
[37:16] see. But it uh so that's and then as a
[37:18] community partner too I think that there
[37:20] is one this is the lens that I have um
[37:25] there's by supporting some of our
[37:29] being in our chamber in a very real way
[37:31] you are supporting a lot of the
[37:33] employers
[37:35] that will that that commute back into
[37:37] your city um the domos the lbts and
[37:42] things like that so we try to be of any
[37:45] resource we can be to make them
[37:47] successful knowing that in return
[37:50] success will follow them and it'll
[37:52] follow the people that work with them
[37:54] and uh their suppliers as well.
[37:58] I don't know if that's an angle you've
[38:00] considered, but I didn't just make that
[38:02] up. I actually have thought that through
[38:05] a little bit to think that however we
[38:06] can make a business succeed, the success
[38:09] will grow with it and go with it. It'll
[38:12] go back to a home.
[38:14] >> For sure. Um I I'm an accounting
[38:17] background too and I went to this
[38:18] accounting uh lecture and it changed my
[38:21] whole view of business and they said the
[38:23] most charitable thing you could do is
[38:25] employ someone full-time. And so it's not necessarily like you're saying
[38:31] that there's a brickandmortar store, but
[38:33] there's a family behind every employee
[38:35] and that's that's the most important
[38:37] part of business. Thank you.
[38:40] >> Does anybody else have any other
[38:42] questions?
[38:44] Thank you. Appreciate your time.
[38:45] >> Very much. Appreciate your time.
[38:47] >> Thank you both. Um we will probably um
[38:51] be bringing this back on the agenda for
[38:53] a vote at a future meeting and um we'll
[38:58] let you guys know where we land. Um
[39:00] let's move on to public comment. We'll
[39:03] go back to item three
[39:08] proposals.
[39:10] Okay. We have Michelle Shamway followed
[39:14] by Kyle Shamway.
[39:17] >> Oh, okay. If you guys can come up and um
[39:19] state your names and you could just say
[39:22] your street that you're on
[39:24] >> and um you have three minutes to make a
[39:27] presentation and after you will be Mario
[39:30] Jes.
[39:34] » Can you hear me? Okay.
[39:36] Uh we are Kyle and Michelle Shamway. And
[39:38] first of all, I just want to thank you
[39:40] guys so much for all the time, energy,
[39:41] and love that you put into Alpine. Um a
[39:44] little bit of background. I grew up in
[39:46] Alpine. My family moved here when I was
[39:48] 12. And um I was actually in Andrew
[39:51] Young's ward. His mom was my young
[39:52] women's leader. Love her dearly. And I
[39:55] love Alpine. I love Alpine so much that
[39:57] we stayed here. We just love it. Um,
[40:01] what we'd like to do today is I'm hoping
[40:03] to um that maybe you might be willing to
[40:06] take another look at letting golf carts
[40:08] be legal in Alpine. Um, I'm talking a
[40:11] lot, but
[40:12] >> you're good. No, you take it away. I I
[40:14] agree with everything she says.
[40:16] >> So, one of the things I loved so much um
[40:18] growing up in Alpine was the small town
[40:20] feel that Alpine had and the community
[40:22] feel. I remember um I was amazed as a
[40:26] 12-year-old coming from Salt Lake City
[40:28] seeing people waving to each other,
[40:30] everyone that drove by and even horses
[40:32] riding by and just the magical feel it
[40:35] was to be part of such a small
[40:36] community. And I really feel strongly
[40:39] that golf carts um bring that community
[40:42] feel. And as far as danger goes, I I
[40:44] personally don't see um them as any more
[40:47] dangerous than um an ebike or a siron or
[40:50] even a bike. And so with that in mind,
[40:53] weighing the pros and the cons and and
[40:55] with a goal of like just thinking that
[40:59] it will make Alpine a happier, pleasant
[41:01] community, um I feel like maybe it's
[41:04] worth taking another look at. So
[41:06] >> I like the idea that Highland recent Oh
[41:09] yeah, sure.
[41:10] >> Highland City also recently, as far as
[41:12] my understanding goes, has legalized uh
[41:15] golf carts. And it's not like cart
[41:17] launch anything goes. They have certain
[41:19] guidelines and it's in their ordinance.
[41:20] And so that's what we'd like to do is
[41:22] have you guys take a look at putting it
[41:24] into the city ordinance, make sure
[41:25] everyone knows what the laws are, giving
[41:27] the Lone Peak Police Department clear
[41:29] guidelines that are exactly the same
[41:31] among Highland and Alpine so that
[41:33] everyone knows the the rules and the
[41:35] laws and so everything stays safe and
[41:37] that people will be allowed to use their
[41:39] golf carts. Ours has been in the garage
[41:41] for the last like over a year and a
[41:43] half. So
[41:44] >> yeah,
[41:44] >> we'd like to start using again. Yeah.
[41:46] Anyway, yeah. So, I just want to thank
[41:48] you so much for your time and your
[41:49] consideration and hope you'll take a
[41:51] second look at that. Thank you. Thanks a
[41:52] lot.
[41:53] >> Thank you.
[41:54] >> Okay, if we could have Mario followed by
[41:57] Julie Daly.
[42:13] » Good afternoon.
[42:15] My name is Mario Jimenez. I live on
[42:17] Whitby Woodlands Drive. Um, I had the
[42:19] pleasure of addressing the city council
[42:21] here two weeks ago. I'm back uh for the
[42:24] same reason. I'd like to try to first of
[42:25] all, I wanted to thank the
[42:31] members of the city council that were
[42:33] kind enough to answer my emails.
[42:36] Um, I'd also like to basically visit
[42:39] with you for just a second as a
[42:42] professional safety. Um,
[42:47] I' I've been in the safety business over
[42:49] 50 years. And um, one of the things that
[42:51] I kind of wanted to talk to the council
[42:53] about is I'm certainly open to any
[42:55] feedback, to any questions, to anything
[42:57] that anybody would like to ask me. I
[42:59] think I can present a view that provides
[43:02] metrics, that provides data, that
[43:03] provides a scientific look at
[43:07] encapsulating or incorporating that
[43:09] municipal code that the city of Highland
[43:12] has chosen to do. Um, statistically a an organization that does not codify
[43:20] does not identify a particular ordinance
[43:22] or procedure or policy has a greater
[43:25] chance of risk that one that has it
[43:28] clearly identified. And so that's
[43:30] something to keep in mind. In my humble
[43:33] opinion, the easiest way, the best
[43:37] return on investment, the most efficient
[43:39] way for the city of Alpine is to
[43:41] basically use the city of Highlands code
[43:44] to create a skeleton. It's already
[43:46] there. It it it agrees with all of the
[43:50] DOT, a Department of Public Safety, uh,
[43:52] highway patrol, all that stuff agrees.
[43:54] So, they've done a fantastic job. Once
[43:56] again, I'm open to any feedback. I I
[43:59] would love to meet with each of you
[44:00] individually. I can spend five minutes
[44:03] or two hours talking about safety and
[44:04] how I honestly sincerely think that this
[44:07] will make the city of Alpine a safer
[44:12] uh city to live in by codifying and
[44:14] identifying these. Um,
[44:17] once again, my primary goal here, and I
[44:19] think the goal of the other people that
[44:21] are going to profer the idea of the golf
[44:23] carts is to solicit one more city
[44:27] council member to back Andrew up and
[44:30] allow us to move this forward to then
[44:32] intelligently spend some time
[44:34] researching, looking at it, studying it.
[44:37] because if we don't get to that point
[44:38] where we study, we're we're we're not
[44:42] being good stewards of our uh of our
[44:45] responsibilities. Once again, I thank
[44:47] you for your time and anything that I
[44:49] can do to answer anybody's question,
[44:50] I'll be more than happy to do that.
[44:52] >> Thank you. Um if we can have Julie Daly
[44:56] come up, if you can just state your
[44:57] name, the road that you live on, and
[44:59] then followed following Julie will be
[45:02] Sid McGee. Hi, I'm I'm sorry I lost my
[45:05] voice yesterday, but hi, I'm Julie Daly.
[45:07] I live off River Circle just around the
[45:09] corner and I'm to just here to ask you
[45:12] to look at the golf cart situation
[45:14] again. And for the past 30 years, we've
[45:16] been here almost 11 years, but in 30
[45:19] years of marriage, we lived in several
[45:20] big cities in the country. And we were
[45:22] drawn to this community as I'm sure all
[45:24] of you were for the small town feel and
[45:27] for being able to get lots of great
[45:29] parks and schools and all the things are
[45:31] so close and to have a golf cart to be
[45:34] able to go to some of those a low-speed
[45:36] vehicle not going more than 25 miles an
[45:38] hour with blinkers and windshield wipers
[45:40] and all the mirrors all the with seat
[45:43] belts all the things you need is so much
[45:45] cleaner for the environment. Um they're
[45:47] electric. you just plug them in and
[45:49] they're so much better for the
[45:50] environment. But we would also be one of
[45:53] five other cities that have already
[45:55] approved this besides Highland. You've
[45:57] got St. George. And I'm not I know that
[45:59] there are three more, but um we love it
[46:02] here. And we feel like especially when
[46:05] we have the beautiful weather that we do
[46:06] in the in the summer and this year in
[46:09] the spring and the fall, it is such a
[46:11] great way to be able to see your
[46:13] neighbors, to see anyone in the
[46:15] community, to be able to stop quickly,
[46:17] wave at anyone in the soccer fields, at the parks, um because you're outside
[46:21] on your golf cart. And um we've just
[46:24] noticed the same thing. It just does
[46:25] bring a sense of community getting to
[46:27] see other people. So, I hope you'll
[46:29] consider it. Thanks.
[46:31] >> Thank you. Um
[46:33] Sid McGee, if you could state the street
[46:35] that you live on and
[46:40] » Nice. Hi. Um thanks for hearing us out.
[46:43] Um I'm Siv McGee. I live on Campfire
[46:46] Circle. Um and I'm
[46:48] >> Is that Sid or Sim?
[46:50] >> Sid Syd.
[46:52] >> Yeah. Um, and uh, yeah, I just want to
[46:55] echo what's already been said. I mean,
[46:56] we we we love to use it mostly just to
[46:59] communicate, uh, commute to, uh, the
[47:02] local parks, everything within like a
[47:04] mile or two of our house, and it's a
[47:05] really, uh, you know, one of the
[47:07] highlights of of of the summer. Um, and all the seasons that permit it. And,
[47:12] um, yeah, I mean, we would just same
[47:14] thing. I think that if the we can adopt
[47:16] the guidelines of of Highland and do it
[47:18] in a way that the the vehicles are
[47:20] registered, that they have their safety
[47:22] requirements met. We have seat belts, we
[47:24] have blinkers, we have license plate,
[47:25] it's been insured. Um just be able to
[47:28] have that ability to move freely through
[47:30] the community in uh in the golf cart
[47:32] would be great. And then um we also loan
[47:35] it out in the summertime for them to uh
[47:37] transport um the seniors to like the
[47:40] park for like the car show and other
[47:42] things like that. So, um, everyone loves
[47:44] it. It's really fun. So, I understand
[47:46] that, um, you know, where it may have
[47:48] originated from to try to keep a handle
[47:50] on it. Um, I think from the point of
[47:52] view of, uh, you know, you know, kids
[47:55] using them or getting out of control,
[47:57] but I think it's very similar to, uh,
[47:59] cars, like we, you know, we can't have
[48:01] kids under 16 just driving cars around
[48:03] and having a good time. And the surons
[48:05] are crazy. I know that. We're trying to
[48:07] get a handle on that as well. But I
[48:08] think uh you know if we can distinguish
[48:11] those things that would satisfy uh you
[48:13] know the the council feeling safety with
[48:15] uh safe with with permitting the golf
[48:17] carts that would be really great. So
[48:20] that's uh that's it.
[48:22] >> Thank you.
[48:23] >> So we do have three additional public
[48:25] comments. Normally we don't take public
[48:28] comment for items that are in on the
[48:30] agenda but if Andrew will guarantee me
[48:32] that we get out before midnight today I
[48:35] will.
[48:35] >> Yes I can guarantee midnight. We haven't
[48:38] gone that far yet.
[48:40] >> But just so you know, I did not ask all
[48:42] these golf clubs to come.
[48:44] >> So, let's
[48:44] >> I I don't even know some of them.
[48:46] >> Let's start with Martha Beck followed by
[48:49] Andy Spencer and we'll end with Steve
[48:51] Jolly if we can go in that order. Again,
[48:54] if you could state your name and the
[48:55] street that you live on. You don't have
[48:57] to give your house address.
[49:00] >> Thank you. I'm Martha Beck. I live on
[49:02] 100 South. Thank you for all your hard
[49:04] work. I know it can sometimes be
[49:06] thankless and people can be honory. Um
[49:13] I feel like I should be better educated
[49:16] on the whole fire station senior center.
[49:21] Um
[49:23] my concern is
[49:25] could things be done in a different way
[49:28] that would
[49:30] make it not as expensive tax-wise?
[49:34] I could say that I'm very blessed that
[49:37] we got our home
[49:40] in 91. So that's a great thing. It was a
[49:44] great deal.
[49:46] That being said, we will pay more
[49:49] in property taxes
[49:52] in the life of us living in that home
[49:55] than we paid for
[49:57] the whole mortgage.
[50:00] So you know I maybe you'll give more
[50:04] information that will help me understand
[50:06] the wise it has to be done how it's
[50:10] projected at this point but I'm just
[50:12] wondering
[50:14] seems like there's other places that we
[50:16] could gather for a senior center. Thank
[50:20] you.
[50:20] >> Thank you
[50:23] Andy Spencer followed by Steve Jolly.
[50:28] Thank you, mayor and council. Appreciate
[50:30] the the moment to speak. Just want to
[50:32] speak uh for a minute. Oh, I live on 200
[50:34] East. Sorry, forgot that. Uh I just want
[50:37] to speak for a minute on a a discussion
[50:39] item on the agenda tonight um relative
[50:41] to the storage unit considerations. Um I uh certainly understand that there is
[50:47] a pragmatic element to these that uh
[50:49] something positive needs to happen with
[50:51] the purple site and you know, if it's
[50:53] not the storage units, then what? I
[50:55] think that that's often been discussed
[50:56] as this has been leading up to potential
[50:58] council votes on this issue. I I think
[51:01] that I would ask that you back up and look at this from more of a
[51:05] long-term land land use perspective and
[51:09] look at the current planning efforts of
[51:10] the city in regard to what has been
[51:12] contemplated for the area from the city
[51:16] hall blocks north as far as its
[51:17] transitional nature to the residential
[51:19] uses. And uh um while it is tempting to
[51:25] um
[51:27] have something positive happen, uh look
[51:30] at what's the right decision uh for uh
[51:33] the city in a longer term sense as far
[51:36] as you know what's the right land use
[51:38] there. Um because uh as I've indicated
[51:41] in some communication with you uh the
[51:43] decisions that you make relative to land
[51:45] use will far outlive you. they will
[51:47] outlive me. And uh you know the uh
[51:50] evidence of that is the fact that we're
[51:52] now battling uh with the land use that's
[51:55] uh in congruent with where the community
[51:58] is today. And so those are very
[52:00] difficult decisions and I understand why
[52:02] they're difficult decisions. I
[52:03] understand that you know having
[52:05] something positive in front of you that could happen is is certainly
[52:09] alluring. Um, but I would encourage you
[52:11] to look at uh the long-term vision of
[52:14] the community and where uh you see the
[52:17] community 10 years from now, 20 years
[52:19] from now, and what the right land use
[52:22] decision is and incorporate that in your
[52:25] decision-m um and as a a last side note,
[52:29] um while I don't advocate for it, uh if
[52:32] you are inclined to move forward with a
[52:34] storage unit there, I I understand and
[52:37] I've read some of the provisions that
[52:38] are in the code trying to limit uh uses
[52:40] of storage units other areas in the
[52:41] city. I would suggest that some type of
[52:43] overlay zone would be a better approach
[52:46] um than actually including the
[52:48] regulations in the general business
[52:50] commercial zoning. Um but again for me
[52:53] that would be certainly secondary and a
[52:55] fallback. Uh uh I I would advocate for
[52:57] something that is more transitional in
[52:59] nature in its character. Uh because
[53:02] while it may mean holding out for a
[53:03] little while longer, I think that it
[53:05] provides a better future for the
[53:07] community. And I know I'm out of time.
[53:08] Thanks.
[53:09] >> Thank you. Okay, Mr. Jolly.
[53:18] » Thank you very much for uh the
[53:20] opportunity to stand up and speak to
[53:21] you. Um u just like was advocated
[53:25] >> name.
[53:25] >> Oh yeah, let's start with that. My name
[53:27] is Steve Jolly. I live on 300 East. Um
[53:30] I'm a downtowner. I've been here for 33
[53:34] years. Um anyway, I really appreciate
[53:36] city council and you mayor Merrill and
[53:40] the the comments that were just the two
[53:43] before me. Um those are really the
[53:47] exactly what I would say. So I don't
[53:48] want to take up my time on those. But um
[53:52] and I apologize that um I I sent out an
[53:55] email I hope that all the council
[53:56] members got whenever you open them. Um,
[53:59] I said I'm late, but uh I needed to be I
[54:03] needed to be more informed, I guess. And
[54:05] it's my fault that I I didn't know about
[54:07] some of these issues
[54:09] until uh a recent meeting with some um
[54:14] Alpiners that are concerned about some
[54:16] of the things coming up. So, I just my
[54:19] thing is is
[54:21] I appreciate the jobs you all do and I
[54:25] know that you are our voice. I mean, we
[54:27] hire you, correct? And and so
[54:31] I just feel that some of these decisions
[54:35] that get made might be moving too fast.
[54:37] And there's a lot of smart people in
[54:40] town. And I'm not saying I'm the smart
[54:41] guy. I'm I'm saying that there's a lot
[54:43] of ideas with the three proposals
[54:46] tonight that I think we could if you all
[54:48] say no tonight, let's move it forward
[54:51] and get better ideas because I don't
[54:53] want my taxes going up like Mrs. Beck. I
[54:56] can't afford to live here anymore. I got
[54:57] here in 93 and you can guess what I paid
[55:00] for my house. Um, but I love the
[55:04] community. I love Alpine.
[55:06] I don't ever want to see a storage unit
[55:08] in Alpine. And I don't think any of you
[55:11] would want a storage unit near your
[55:12] neighborhood.
[55:14] Having said that, I'm grateful for the
[55:17] me uh the people that are doing the
[55:19] library, but I don't think that we
[55:21] should put the money from
[55:24] the bookmobile. That's I'm I'm enjoying
[55:28] that service to go to them. So, and I
[55:32] think the bookmobile can go to the
[55:33] library and and be facilitated there.
[55:36] And and if and if all the things that
[55:37] the bookmobile does that I can log in
[55:40] and and get all the books I want to read
[55:42] or listen to online that that does there
[55:45] and it doesn't cost any more money.
[55:47] Great. Um show that to me. I would
[55:49] appreciate that. and then on the fire
[55:53] department. Um I just don't understand
[55:57] um the reasoning behind it and a
[56:01] community center and maybe down the road
[56:04] we have maybe we have maybe I'm getting
[56:06] older. I mean I have but I feel like
[56:08] you're my community community. So
[56:11] anyway, I appreciate your time and all
[56:13] that you do for us and um I'd be willing
[56:16] to talk to you all.
[56:19] Thank you, Steve.
[56:21] >> So, we have your information. This will
[56:23] be with Dian. If any of council want to
[56:25] follow up, you can get the contact
[56:26] information from her.
[56:27] >> Thank you.
[56:28] >> Um, great comments.
[56:30] >> Move on to discussion items,
[56:35] >> which is, um, let's go on to a um, the
[56:39] proposal to relocate funds from the
[56:40] bookmobile to the Alpine Library.
[56:47] Oh yes, sorry. Thank you.
[56:49] >> Hey, before we start, this is I just
[56:51] found out about this. This is something
[56:53] new for our a new protocol for us. We're
[56:55] having discussion items to discuss the
[56:58] items before we vote at a future date. I
[57:00] know we have done that in some instances
[57:02] before, but it sounds like it's a it's a new procedure. Can you just explain
[57:08] what what the plan is so the public
[57:10] knows? And I is that okay? Do
[57:12] >> you want me to take that m? Yeah. So on some items, sometimes u the council
[57:19] needs a little bit more time to consider
[57:22] an item. So, uh, for some items you'll
[57:25] see on our agenda them being on there
[57:27] for discussion only, and then at a
[57:30] minimum, they would have two weeks until
[57:32] the next council meeting um, if if that
[57:35] item ended up landing on the next
[57:37] meeting uh, to, you know, do further
[57:41] research or consideration or whatever
[57:43] they need to do. And so, we have two
[57:45] items on the agenda tonight that are in
[57:47] that c that discussion category. Uh the
[57:51] ones below that would be action items
[57:53] that we're requesting action from the
[57:55] city council tonight. So this no action
[57:58] will be on this item. It will just be
[57:59] for discussion.
[58:01] >> And um Shane, how does that affect when
[58:04] council members add something to the
[58:06] action item agenda? Will we still take
[58:08] two council members and it just moves
[58:10] right to action?
[58:13] >> I I guess it it probably depends a
[58:16] little bit on the item. If it's like a bigger item, more impactful, like
[58:22] we go over the agenda with the mayor
[58:23] each week, you know, two council members
[58:26] can bring an item on the agenda. I you
[58:29] know, the golf golf cart thing was
[58:31] discussed a few times tonight. Maybe
[58:33] that would be one that would come for
[58:34] discussion and then uh we get direction
[58:37] from the council and bring it back to a
[58:39] future meeting for action.
[58:41] >> Okay.
[58:42] >> I like that. I like that uh model of
[58:45] bringing them up for discussion. I think
[58:47] do you want people to talk during those
[58:49] discussion items or just us? Do you want
[58:51] it to be like a collaborative thing or
[58:53] >> are you talking about with
[58:54] >> Yeah. See or Yeah. So we've got a
[58:57] presentation right now.
[58:59] >> No, not necessarily the public.
[59:01] >> Just the presenter.
[59:02] >> Yes.
[59:02] >> Okay. Got it. Got it.
[59:03] >> Okay.
[59:04] >> This this item did come on the agenda
[59:06] because two council members requested
[59:09] it.
[59:10] I think um like in talk in the new
[59:13] format that you've been talking about,
[59:14] Shane, I I find it helpful to hear all
[59:16] of your other perspectives and then if I
[59:18] need to follow up or think on things,
[59:20] sometimes when I'm hearing new
[59:21] information, it's hard for me to vote on
[59:23] that new information. So, I appreciate
[59:25] the two-step process.
[59:27] >> Yeah, I do too. I like I said, I just
[59:28] learned about it tonight or pre
[59:30] premeating dinner that we have and I
[59:32] think it's a great idea. I agree with
[59:34] Chrissy.
[59:35] >> There's a check mark on the sheet we can
[59:38] do as discussion. Correct. When when
[59:40] we're doing the two city councils, I
[59:43] believe there's a check mark.
[59:46] >> Right. Right.
[59:48] >> Well, here we go. Start the model.
[59:50] >> Okay. I was glad to be like much closer
[59:52] for that conversation. Okay. My name is
[59:54] Bethany Sorenson and I am here um as the
[59:57] facility and operations director for the
[59:59] Friends of the Alpine Library
[1:00:01] organization. So, um, thank you for
[1:00:04] taking the time to hear this, um,
[1:00:06] discussion and this proposal. And thank
[1:00:08] you to council members Blackwell and
[1:00:10] Hanaman for putting this on the agenda.
[1:00:12] Um, so, um, it's a great time to be
[1:00:16] involved in Alpine City. Honestly, it's
[1:00:18] lots of exciting things going on and
[1:00:19] I'm, um, happy to be participating in
[1:00:22] many different aspects of what's going
[1:00:23] on in Alpine City right now. It's also a
[1:00:25] great day. Today is my birthday, so if
[1:00:27] we could just keep this festive
[1:00:29] atmosphere going that we have, it'll
[1:00:32] feel like a party. Um so, okay. Um on
[1:00:35] the next slide. So, um we are here to
[1:00:38] kind of talk about the bookmobile and
[1:00:40] what it offers Alpine City and how we
[1:00:43] feel as the friends of the library
[1:00:44] organization can add to the service that
[1:00:47] has been here for 51 years. Quite a
[1:00:49] tradition um that we've enjoyed here. We
[1:00:52] feel that we can add to this tradition,
[1:00:54] not take anything away. And today's
[1:00:57] discussion really centers on your
[1:00:59] decision of whether or not you feel that
[1:01:01] you can shift kind of library services
[1:01:05] to us um for the same amount, no change
[1:01:08] in the amount, but with a greatly
[1:01:10] increased access for patrons, residents,
[1:01:13] and improvement to those services. So
[1:01:15] that's kind of the decision we're
[1:01:17] discussing today. Um on the next slide,
[1:01:20] these are kind of some of the benefits
[1:01:22] of making this change. I'm sure that
[1:01:24] people are wondering why change a thing
[1:01:27] that's been going for 51 years. Um, so
[1:01:30] we feel that some of the benefits that
[1:01:32] would come from making a change would be
[1:01:35] improved predictability, consistency.
[1:01:38] There's going to be more regular hours
[1:01:39] instead of guessing is it a bookmobile
[1:01:41] week, is it not? Having to look up what
[1:01:43] the schedule is, where is it located in
[1:01:45] Alpine at a certain moment. Um, kind of
[1:01:49] more predictable with a physical
[1:01:50] location. Um, we will also feature
[1:01:52] increased access to residents um and
[1:01:55] resources including audiobooks,
[1:01:57] something that's highly uh requested by
[1:01:59] the patrons at the Alpine Library. Um,
[1:02:02] we also feel that we have a greater
[1:02:03] ability to cater to resident needs. So,
[1:02:07] we can create programs, we can request
[1:02:10] materials all based on someone walking
[1:02:12] into the library saying I am really
[1:02:14] interested in this subject or this book
[1:02:17] and we can make that happen. whereas the
[1:02:18] bookmobile might not be able to cater
[1:02:20] specifically to individuals. Um we also
[1:02:24] feel that this is a very alpine first um
[1:02:27] proposal, meaning the taxpayer money
[1:02:31] stays here in Alpine. It isn't spreading
[1:02:33] out to the county system. It's going to
[1:02:35] a group that's run by Alpine people for
[1:02:38] Alpine people. And that's unique. I
[1:02:40] think there's not a lot of opportunities
[1:02:42] like that. So, um we're very excited to
[1:02:45] kind of keep our funding local. Um on
[1:02:47] the next slide I have some kind of
[1:02:49] explanation about what this is going to
[1:02:51] look like. So we are incredibly honored
[1:02:54] that the state library division has
[1:02:55] asked us and invited us to become part
[1:02:58] of two consortia beehive consorcia and
[1:03:01] juniper consorcia. Um they've come to
[1:03:03] our facility. They've met with our
[1:03:05] board. They've seen our volunteer base
[1:03:07] and our rapid growth and feel that we
[1:03:09] would be a good candidate to join both
[1:03:10] of these consorcia. Just a brief
[1:03:13] overview of what that is. You have the
[1:03:14] Juniper Consoria which is a small kind
[1:03:17] of group of rural libraries, small
[1:03:20] libraries, think Vineyard, um, Nephi,
[1:03:22] things like that. Um, places like that.
[1:03:25] And this benefit of the consorcia is
[1:03:27] basically to share resources, these
[1:03:29] expensive kind of catalog systems, um,
[1:03:32] if we spread out the cost over a bunch
[1:03:34] of small libraries, then it makes it
[1:03:36] that these small libraries can operate.
[1:03:38] The Beehive Consoria is part of the
[1:03:41] state digital library. So joining that
[1:03:44] will give us the access to the Overdrive
[1:03:45] and the Libby and the audio books that
[1:03:47] so many readers love today. So that's
[1:03:50] kind of a an overview and why we want to
[1:03:53] join these consorcia. It would be too
[1:03:54] expensive for us to do this on our own.
[1:03:56] Um on the next slide we'll talk a little
[1:03:59] bit about what the bookmo currently
[1:04:00] offers. So they are here every two weeks
[1:04:03] and they're here for six hours. They
[1:04:05] make three different stops. You can see
[1:04:07] those on the slide. and um have a
[1:04:10] rotating collection. Um I talked to
[1:04:13] Chris the librarian and he said that he
[1:04:15] usually um decides on what's in the
[1:04:17] bookmobile based on what patrons request
[1:04:20] like hold. Um so right now there are 4%
[1:04:23] of Alpine residents that hold bookmobile
[1:04:25] cards. They are free. Um and about 2% so
[1:04:28] 50% of um so 2% of Alpine residents but
[1:04:32] 50% of that 4% is currently using
[1:04:35] utilizing the bookmobile. that is a um
[1:04:39] that data is coming from the state
[1:04:41] library division. So um on the next
[1:04:43] slide. So the benefits of kind of our
[1:04:46] proposal is that we increase the access
[1:04:49] to the same catalog by eight times. We
[1:04:53] increase the physical space. There's a
[1:04:55] lot more room to spread out in the
[1:04:56] library than there is on the bookmobile.
[1:04:58] Um increase convenience, predictability,
[1:05:01] visibility from the Alpine Highway.
[1:05:02] People know that that where the library
[1:05:04] is, where to find it. We have kids
[1:05:06] walking from Mountainville and other
[1:05:08] schools all the time and stopping in.
[1:05:10] It's wonderful. Um we just last week had
[1:05:13] two little girls just pop in, come in,
[1:05:15] play a little game together, and then
[1:05:16] said, "Thanks. See you." And just left.
[1:05:18] And we thought, "Yes, this is what this
[1:05:20] is what we're here for. We want you guys
[1:05:21] to stop by." Um we can offer more
[1:05:24] programs, like I've said before, that
[1:05:26] are specifically tailored to Alpine
[1:05:27] residents and curate our collection
[1:05:29] based on local demand. On the next
[1:05:31] slide, a little cost comparison. So, the
[1:05:34] Alpine City currently spends 13,596 on
[1:05:37] bookmobile services. We are um
[1:05:39] requesting the reallocation of those
[1:05:41] exact funds to the Friends of the Alpine
[1:05:43] Library. Um if you look at a breakdown
[1:05:46] of what that cost is, um right now
[1:05:47] you're spending $87 an hour to operate
[1:05:50] the bookmobile. With us, that would
[1:05:52] break down to $11 an hour. Um the local
[1:05:56] control is about what I've said. We can
[1:05:58] create programs um and collection. We
[1:06:01] can the sub um bookmobile only offers
[1:06:04] summer reading program. These are a list
[1:06:07] of some of the programs we're currently
[1:06:08] offering and we have many more. Um we
[1:06:11] just didn't need to go into all of it.
[1:06:13] So this is kind of we feel that this uh
[1:06:16] Alpine Library is a more fiscally
[1:06:17] responsible use of these funds. On the
[1:06:20] next slide um some more specifics on how
[1:06:23] exactly that money would be broken out
[1:06:25] and budgeted. Um in the packet there was
[1:06:27] a more specific budget breakdown. Those
[1:06:30] are projections. Of course, um as as you
[1:06:32] all know, you can only project so much
[1:06:34] and then when it gets down to actual
[1:06:35] expenditure, um it looks it may look a
[1:06:38] little bit different, but just know that
[1:06:39] all of that expenditure would be
[1:06:41] reviewed with you guys annually. Um
[1:06:45] also, the costs are the same as what
[1:06:47] you've been paying for the bookmobile.
[1:06:49] So, that breaks down into ILS, the
[1:06:51] integrated library system. So, the
[1:06:53] cataloging, how it stays organized, the
[1:06:55] curation of a collection, the rotation
[1:06:57] of it. Um, also maintenance. You've been
[1:06:59] paying for bookmobile maintenance on the
[1:07:01] bus itself. That's includes gas. And I
[1:07:04] know a couple weeks ago it didn't come
[1:07:06] because it had maintenance issues and
[1:07:07] was broken down. That won't happen to
[1:07:10] the library. So, um, anyway, um, and
[1:07:14] this obviously continues to support, um,
[1:07:16] statewide literacy and, um, goals is
[1:07:20] what I was trying to say. Okay. Okay, on
[1:07:22] the next slide, um just to review again,
[1:07:24] we will as part of um if you decide to
[1:07:26] create this memorandum of under um of
[1:07:28] agreement that we would review it
[1:07:30] annually and also provide a record of
[1:07:32] our expenditures. Um and then on the
[1:07:34] next slide there, I have included some
[1:07:37] um of the details for the state library
[1:07:40] division. This is who we've been working
[1:07:41] with directly and you have all been
[1:07:43] emailed a copy of this slide so you have
[1:07:45] all the information. And so if you have
[1:07:46] tons of details that you're wanting to
[1:07:48] know, lots of questions about, I would
[1:07:51] suggest reaching out to them and asking
[1:07:52] them. They could describe it better than
[1:07:54] I can in this brief time that I've been
[1:07:57] allotted. So, um, and I know Council
[1:07:59] Member Blackwell is going to follow up
[1:08:01] with them and has been trying to reach
[1:08:02] them. So, thank you for doing that. I
[1:08:03] would encourage you guys to reach out to
[1:08:05] her for clarification on anything. Um,
[1:08:09] let's see what else. Um we're our goal
[1:08:11] is to kind of uphold the same standard
[1:08:13] that has been provided by the bookmobile
[1:08:15] and and improve upon that. On the next
[1:08:18] slide, um I'm sure many of you are
[1:08:19] wondering how this might affect our
[1:08:21] wonderful residents at River Meadows.
[1:08:23] They are definitely one of our
[1:08:24] priorities and we've been working
[1:08:25] closely with Paula who's the activities
[1:08:27] director and also Josh who's the
[1:08:29] executive director and then Paula's
[1:08:30] assistant Laura. She coordinates field
[1:08:33] trips for the residents. And um we
[1:08:35] already have an established program at
[1:08:37] River Meadows. It's called Golden Hour.
[1:08:38] We have a bi-weekly story time where we
[1:08:40] come to River Meadows and visit with
[1:08:42] them. And as part of that, we could
[1:08:44] offer a mobile catalog. We can bring
[1:08:46] books. They can request books to put on
[1:08:48] hold. Um, like Mr. Dolly was saying,
[1:08:50] like, can we provide that same ability
[1:08:52] to go onto the catalog and request what
[1:08:54] books you want? Yes, we can. We can work
[1:08:56] on an agreement that will create that
[1:08:58] same opportunity and access. That's
[1:09:01] really important to us. So, um, it is a
[1:09:04] priority for us to make sure we're not
[1:09:05] taking anything away. Um, we'll also be
[1:09:09] adding a curbside option. So, patrons
[1:09:11] would be able to pull up to the Alpine
[1:09:12] Library, call the number on the sign,
[1:09:14] and we would be able to bring books down
[1:09:16] if that's a problem for some people or
[1:09:17] if they don't want to go in or have kids
[1:09:19] in the car. Any age could could utilize
[1:09:21] that option. Um, and then we are
[1:09:24] planning to schedule regular field trips
[1:09:25] for River Meadows uh residents to be
[1:09:28] able to come to the library. They like
[1:09:30] to get out. So, um, on the next slide, I
[1:09:32] have an example of a letter of support.
[1:09:34] Um Paula and Josh sent this over uh this
[1:09:38] afternoon and let um to just let you
[1:09:40] guys know that they are supportive of us
[1:09:42] and excited about these changes and um
[1:09:45] would look forward to working with us.
[1:09:47] So I just wanted you to be able to see
[1:09:49] how they felt about it. Um on the next
[1:09:52] slide, some more kind of questions. Um
[1:09:54] just generally the library would be
[1:09:57] continue to be run by the nonprofit
[1:09:58] organization Friends of the Alpine
[1:10:00] Library and we will abide by ALA
[1:10:03] American Library Association standards.
[1:10:05] And it's important to us to make sure
[1:10:07] that we establish ourselves as a
[1:10:09] legitimate library, not just kind of a
[1:10:11] thrown together uh initiative. So, and
[1:10:13] we do have volunteers that have master's
[1:10:16] degree in library science that are
[1:10:18] actually helping to maintain our
[1:10:20] collection that make sure it keeps that
[1:10:22] statewide standard. Um, on the very last
[1:10:26] slide, just in conclusion,
[1:10:28] so we have been kind of officially
[1:10:30] operating for about one year and in that
[1:10:33] year we have issued about almost 300
[1:10:35] cards, library cards. They are free and
[1:10:37] they will continue to be free. And then
[1:10:39] we've been open in our current physical
[1:10:41] location for three months and we have
[1:10:43] circulated um more than 1,000 titles,
[1:10:46] materials in those three months. So
[1:10:48] there it's getting used, it's getting
[1:10:50] accessed. Just I hope that those numbers
[1:10:53] help you guys understand where we're at.
[1:10:54] We have more than two dozen volunteers
[1:10:56] who uh volunteer at the library and
[1:10:58] we're always looking for more. Um and we
[1:11:01] have felt I mean we've grown so quick.
[1:11:04] we faster than we ever anticipated and
[1:11:06] it's been amazing to see the positive
[1:11:08] response. A lot of people come in and
[1:11:10] say this is a dream come true. We've
[1:11:12] waited so long for this and we are so
[1:11:14] excited about it and we just feed off of
[1:11:16] that enthusiasm and that positivity. It
[1:11:19] just keeps us going and we're very
[1:11:20] motivated by uh by yeah by this um
[1:11:24] project, this initiative. We feel that
[1:11:26] this proposal is a wise investment back
[1:11:28] right back into our community and a
[1:11:31] demonstration of kind of our faith in in
[1:11:33] the residents and that they are willing
[1:11:35] to do what they uh willing to put action
[1:11:38] into what they want. So, um thank you
[1:11:40] for taking the time and I would love to
[1:11:42] answer any questions you guys might
[1:11:43] have.
[1:11:45] >> Chrissy, did you want to start
[1:11:48] >> question with questions?
[1:11:49] >> Yes.
[1:11:50] >> Um I'll can I be the last this time?
[1:11:53] >> Okay, Andrew. Sure. Why?
[1:11:56] >> Thank you.
[1:11:56] >> Yeah, that's okay. Uh, thanks Bethany
[1:11:58] and all of your team that does all this
[1:12:00] work. I can think of few things uh more
[1:12:07] good to do in life than libraries and
[1:12:10] books. Um,
[1:12:12] >> I thank you for the call.
[1:12:14] >> You bet.
[1:12:14] >> Thank you for the call. Um, this is like
[1:12:17] many issues that I don't have like a
[1:12:20] strong stance on. So what I do for every
[1:12:23] issue um is I weigh it on two things.
[1:12:28] The consent of the governed, especially
[1:12:29] those that live by somewhere. Do they
[1:12:32] consent to this? Do they want this? Um
[1:12:34] is there some sort of consensus? And
[1:12:36] then does this fit the identity of
[1:12:38] Alpine?
[1:12:39] >> Like I I pretty much weigh every
[1:12:40] decision on that. If it if it meets both
[1:12:42] of those, it's a yes. And it rarely ever
[1:12:44] is. Mhm.
[1:12:45] >> Um yours yours at its current status I
[1:12:49] think does uphold the um identity of
[1:12:52] Alpine being a community that is
[1:12:55] closenknit. I don't know what books are
[1:12:57] in there. I go to the AF library and I
[1:12:58] question everything in life when I see
[1:13:00] the books that are in the AF library for
[1:13:01] my kids but um that's another story. I
[1:13:04] use the AF library. Um and I I was a
[1:13:07] child at the bookmobile. I remember I as
[1:13:09] you were talking about the bookmobile I
[1:13:11] was smelling the smell of the bookmobile
[1:13:13] as a child. There is a smell.
[1:13:15] >> So anyways, I reached the other one
[1:13:16] though is the residents. So I reached
[1:13:18] out to a bunch of residents because I
[1:13:19] did not know where they stood on this.
[1:13:21] You heard from a couple
[1:13:22] >> and umh
[1:13:25] I love that you guys are trying to do
[1:13:26] this, but there are a lot of issues that
[1:13:28] the residents have brought up that I
[1:13:30] would have had no idea about. And I can
[1:13:33] email these to you and it's not just
[1:13:35] some. It's quite a few. Um I can email
[1:13:38] them to you. I can go through a couple
[1:13:40] of them. I can encapsulate them. But in
[1:13:44] short, there's a couple things that if
[1:13:46] you can somehow
[1:13:48] solve it with these residents, I think
[1:13:49] you'll have hit a home run.
[1:13:52] >> There aren't very many people who can
[1:13:53] hit a home run in Alpine. One who has is
[1:13:55] the uh bridal of hope.
[1:13:57] >> I know you love them.
[1:13:58] >> I Well, it's not that I love them. I
[1:14:00] question how they did it. How did they
[1:14:02] build such a
[1:14:03] >> money?
[1:14:05] >> I question how did Well, no. No, because
[1:14:08] that's not true. There are some people
[1:14:09] >> I'm teasing you. I got two really big
[1:14:12] high rollers on both sides of me and
[1:14:14] it's so I asked him, "How did you build
[1:14:16] such a big facility? How did you have so
[1:14:19] many people coming and going and not
[1:14:21] have one resident or neighbor mad at
[1:14:24] you? How are they all how are they so
[1:14:27] happy with you? What did you do?" And he
[1:14:30] just said, "We tried to be good
[1:14:32] neighbors. We we just took it from the
[1:14:34] beginning and we just made sure to be
[1:14:35] good neighbors." So that's what's
[1:14:37] missing here. Um, and it became apparent
[1:14:39] from the people. There's everything from
[1:14:41] trees that were ripped out to the city
[1:14:44] is being played by there was an intent
[1:14:47] for this to be a certain way and now
[1:14:49] it's very quickly changing. People are
[1:14:52] even texting me during this time giving
[1:14:54] me more feedback and so why don't I just
[1:14:57] email them to you and your team and then
[1:15:00] what what I would suggest or my question
[1:15:02] is if if you can address it if you can
[1:15:05] help out be that good neighbor I think
[1:15:07] you'll have something really special.
[1:15:09] So, I guess it's more of a comment of
[1:15:10] where I came from when we talked
[1:15:12] >> because when we talked, I was like, I
[1:15:14] don't know. I've got to I've got to do
[1:15:15] my research and my due diligence with
[1:15:17] the people,
[1:15:18] >> right?
[1:15:18] >> And uh that's what I found. And some of
[1:15:20] the big issues were why are the taxes
[1:15:22] going to this?
[1:15:24] >> Um um you heard some of the other ones.
[1:15:27] Um how does this change the relationship
[1:15:29] once the city is putting out the money
[1:15:32] uh versus or or to a nonprofit? Like do
[1:15:34] we do this to other nonprofits? Anyways,
[1:15:36] I think I've taken enough time, but why
[1:15:38] don't I email them to you and uh your
[1:15:40] wonderful team
[1:15:41] >> and see what you think? See if you can
[1:15:43] meet them. See if you can help them.
[1:15:45] You'll get their specifics. I write down
[1:15:46] every single one.
[1:15:47] >> Perfect.
[1:15:48] >> And see I I guess the question is what's
[1:15:50] your willingness for that that that kind
[1:15:52] of a thing. Well, I would be happy to
[1:15:54] talk to anyone and we have said that
[1:15:56] from the very start that especially in
[1:15:59] previous meetings, we met with residents
[1:16:01] who came to make public comment about
[1:16:04] the library going into that location um
[1:16:06] at planning commission and we we gave
[1:16:09] our numbers to every single person and
[1:16:10] said if you have an issue please let's
[1:16:12] talk to directly to each other instead
[1:16:14] of going through the rigoral that then
[1:16:16] delays meetings and makes it an
[1:16:19] inefficient use of everyone's time. So
[1:16:22] they can reach out to us, okay,
[1:16:24] >> and talk through those things. We would
[1:16:26] be delighted to talk to them.
[1:16:28] >> Awesome.
[1:16:28] >> The other thing I will say is because
[1:16:30] this is a discussion item and we are
[1:16:32] hoping to take action on it by the next
[1:16:35] city council meeting, I'm concerned that
[1:16:37] if we do take the discussion offline
[1:16:41] that then the other council members
[1:16:44] won't feel that they're able to make an
[1:16:46] educated vote.
[1:16:47] >> Oh, do you want me to say them really
[1:16:49] quick? So, I would say maybe take a
[1:16:51] moment to summarize if you're willing to
[1:16:53] summarize
[1:16:55] >> and I could try to address that here.
[1:16:56] >> Well, okay. I'll say them really quick.
[1:16:58] Um, uh, as quick as I can. Uh,
[1:17:01] >> a condensed version.
[1:17:02] >> Yeah, I'm I'm trying. I I feel the
[1:17:04] pressure. Um, okay. Crossing the line,
[1:17:08] the deed back, uh, of the of the parking
[1:17:11] lot is not what people ever anticipated.
[1:17:15] They thought that was going to be for um
[1:17:17] Burgess Orchards. Uh I'm sorry. They
[1:17:20] thought it was going to be for you guys
[1:17:22] so that you would have parking. Uh now
[1:17:24] it's Burgess Orchards. They don't know
[1:17:26] how. And anyways, there's a problem with
[1:17:27] the deedback giving the city giving
[1:17:29] money. The city needs to clean this up.
[1:17:31] Parking dedicated to them during
[1:17:32] operation hours. Full fire marshall
[1:17:34] inspection. And city needs to be close
[1:17:36] to the city needs to uh be over their
[1:17:39] operating hours because uh some of the
[1:17:42] residents are saying like well like
[1:17:43] they're closed when they're at work and
[1:17:44] when they come home they're not there.
[1:17:45] Um against let's see that I'm against
[1:17:48] the public library uh should be a user
[1:17:50] fee based. I got this a lot. They would
[1:17:53] like it to be user fee. They would like
[1:17:54] your funding to come from users not
[1:17:56] taxes. Um I don't want to pay for the
[1:17:59] scale. They feel like it's scaling and
[1:18:01] they feel like they're now becoming uh
[1:18:04] the people who would pay for it and they
[1:18:06] would rather have you combo with Salt
[1:18:07] Lake or ORM. They don't think al they know Alpine already subsidizes
[1:18:11] library cards. They think that's enough.
[1:18:13] Uh uh the service should be funded by
[1:18:16] those who wish to continue donating and
[1:18:18] expanding the current services provided.
[1:18:21] They would like uh to reserve our
[1:18:23] limited revenue we have only to fund the
[1:18:26] essential services like water um and
[1:18:29] things that are really kind of like you
[1:18:31] know pressing. Um I I want to step in
[1:18:33] and say I'm not trying I'm just
[1:18:35] repeating.
[1:18:36] >> I I'm so happy to hear all of these
[1:18:38] because I have answers for all of them.
[1:18:39] >> Oh good. Okay. So however you want um
[1:18:41] the the signage on the wall would be hit
[1:18:43] the gravel spilling on the driveway. Uh
[1:18:45] they sweep the sidewalk. Uh the benefit
[1:18:47] because at work it's okay I got that
[1:18:49] one. The trees. There's a big issue
[1:18:50] about the trees. I guess they were
[1:18:51] promised when they were taken out they'd
[1:18:52] be put back. Instead, there's lilac
[1:18:54] bushes, so they would like those trees
[1:18:56] put back.
[1:18:56] >> Yeah, that's Tom.
[1:18:57] >> Um, the city is being played enough
[1:19:00] already. Okay. I'm trying to do this.
[1:19:02] Uh, the classes. They're wondering how
[1:19:04] you're going to guarantee um if you have
[1:19:06] classes that you can give the parking
[1:19:08] over when it becomes too much with the
[1:19:10] uh Burgess Orchards. So, they're saying
[1:19:12] that uh um that if the city pays money,
[1:19:15] we're going to have to enforce and
[1:19:17] oversee things. Um, from the beginning,
[1:19:20] my understanding was the purchase of
[1:19:21] Suzanne Tyler's home was intended to be
[1:19:22] provided additional parking for the
[1:19:24] fruit stand. Since then, the plan has
[1:19:25] expanded significantly in in creating
[1:19:28] and operating a library. More recently,
[1:19:29] there have been discussions about
[1:19:30] eliminating the book mobile, relocating
[1:19:32] those funds, and hiring a full-time
[1:19:34] librarian, even though the original
[1:19:35] concept concept was to run a
[1:19:37] volunteer-based um library. There's
[1:19:40] more, but I'll email them to you. And I hope that gives you basically the
[1:19:44] feedback from uh I would say 80%
[1:19:47] surrounding the area, 20% uh within a
[1:19:51] mile to some outliers who were far away.
[1:19:54] That's that's all I gathered. Thank you.
[1:19:56] >> Okay. Are you okay if I try to respond
[1:19:59] to those?
[1:19:59] >> Yeah.
[1:20:00] >> Okay. So, a couple of things. I'll try
[1:20:02] to cover all of them. So, we're unique
[1:20:04] in that we inherited a property that had
[1:20:07] some feelings about it before we were
[1:20:10] ever there. So a lot of these issues
[1:20:12] about how it's the property lines are,
[1:20:15] how the trees, all those things we
[1:20:18] inherited. So we're doing our best to uh
[1:20:23] remediate those some of those concerns,
[1:20:26] but they take time and money and we are
[1:20:28] a nonprofit. So um we're aware of them.
[1:20:32] I've talked to some of the neighbors
[1:20:33] about the trees specifically. We've even
[1:20:36] gotten as specific as what kind of trees
[1:20:38] they would like to have put in. And I
[1:20:40] said, "Great. I'm all for that. Just
[1:20:42] give me time to raise the money." So,
[1:20:44] okay. Um, just know that there is going
[1:20:46] to take some time. The, um, one of the
[1:20:49] requests of the planning commission was
[1:20:51] that we regrade that gravel drive.
[1:20:53] That's some of that gravel that's
[1:20:54] spilling down. Yes, I could take a broom
[1:20:56] out there and sweep it if it's bothering
[1:20:58] someone. It's been winter. The
[1:21:00] driveway's blocked off. So, um, I hasn't
[1:21:03] been a safety issue, but that's
[1:21:04] certainly something easy. I can have it
[1:21:06] done tomorrow. Um
[1:21:08] >> yeah, I just and then our planning
[1:21:10] commission, so our permit actually is
[1:21:14] built around making sure we manage the
[1:21:17] overflow parking with Burgess Orchards.
[1:21:20] So we have limited hours during what
[1:21:22] they call open season for the orchard,
[1:21:24] which is from the beginning of July
[1:21:26] until the end of October. So we are not
[1:21:28] open any later than 5:00. We're never
[1:21:30] open on Saturdays and we close by 3 at
[1:21:34] on um during open season. So the reason
[1:21:38] why we didn't feel it was necessary to
[1:21:40] designate parking for the library is
[1:21:42] because the library isn't open during
[1:21:44] those peak times. So we feel that we
[1:21:48] have figured out a good balance between
[1:21:49] our hours and the orchard demand and we
[1:21:53] are using this summer as our test
[1:21:54] summer. So we're really limiting our
[1:21:57] programs. we're limiting our hours out
[1:21:59] of consideration for this issue and
[1:22:03] wanting to make sure that we are not
[1:22:05] adding to an existing problem. So, it's a priority. We don't want the
[1:22:09] drama. We just want our books. So, um so
[1:22:14] just know that we are aware of these
[1:22:15] concerns and we feel that we have put
[1:22:18] some procedures into place that will
[1:22:20] prevent problems and should problems
[1:22:22] arise then we will address them. So, um
[1:22:25] was there anything else? No, the the
[1:22:27] whole point of all this and I'll end is
[1:22:29] just if these types of folks come to
[1:22:33] folks like me and say they've done it, I
[1:22:35] love what they're doing. It's a great to
[1:22:37] have them.
[1:22:39] >> Oh, sorry.
[1:22:43] » I turn if these types of residents come
[1:22:45] forward and say, "Look, that it's it's
[1:22:47] because what I ask them is this
[1:22:48] improving is this giving positive impact
[1:22:50] to your community or is this giving
[1:22:52] negative impact?" I don't know because I
[1:22:53] don't live by it. and then they tell me
[1:22:55] if they can come back and say
[1:22:58] I love what they're doing and it's it's
[1:23:00] creating positive impact, I'll be your
[1:23:02] number one supporter.
[1:23:04] >> Um but but I needed to come from them
[1:23:06] because they live there and it's 24/7
[1:23:07] from for them just like in our beautiful
[1:23:10] neighborhoods. Yes.
[1:23:11] >> Um we want to have it, you know, very
[1:23:13] special and nice and so yes,
[1:23:15] >> I would do the same thing if it was in
[1:23:16] your neighborhood and
[1:23:17] >> and I appreciate that. Um, one other
[1:23:20] topic that maybe I didn't cover so much
[1:23:22] was kind of
[1:23:24] >> why do we want the city to pay for this
[1:23:26] versus Yeah, there's a lot.
[1:23:27] >> So, the city is already already spending
[1:23:30] this money on library services, right?
[1:23:32] It is going to the bookmobile. Is that
[1:23:35] the best use of your taxpayer funds?
[1:23:39] It's $87 per hour versus $11 an hour.
[1:23:42] You're already spended. It's not going
[1:23:44] to increase taxes or add an additional
[1:23:46] burden to the residents. So, we're
[1:23:49] thinking this is a better use, more
[1:23:52] efficient use of those funds.
[1:23:54] >> I see that.
[1:23:55] >> Now, why don't we just have, you know,
[1:23:58] Joan Oram or those other libraries that
[1:24:00] are bigger and then have it not be a
[1:24:03] problem for the city? There are other
[1:24:06] benchmarks that have to be met in order
[1:24:08] to join those larger consortiums. This
[1:24:11] is not the beehive or the juniper and it
[1:24:14] gets complicated and more expensive. So
[1:24:17] actually to join those bigger libraries
[1:24:20] would end up costing everyone more
[1:24:22] money. This is the smartest way to give
[1:24:25] more to the residents and the most
[1:24:27] fiscally responsible. So I hope that
[1:24:29] kind of resolves that concern.
[1:24:30] >> That helps. Thank you. Yeah. And you're
[1:24:32] welcome. I hope it's a beautiful
[1:24:33] collaboration that they uh come together
[1:24:36] with you. Uh, I hope it works out and uh
[1:24:40] I'll follow up with them. Okay. And if
[1:24:42] you follow up with them,
[1:24:43] >> um, I think it will, uh, be very
[1:24:45] positive for them.
[1:24:46] >> I hope so. I really do. I really do hope
[1:24:48] so.
[1:24:48] >> Okay. Well, give them a call. You know
[1:24:49] them all.
[1:24:50] >> Yes, it's true.
[1:24:51] >> Okay. Anyone else have questions?
[1:24:53] >> Yeah, it's my turn.
[1:24:54] >> Okay. Yes.
[1:24:55] >> Happy birthday, first of all. Thanks for
[1:24:57] the tour last week of your library.
[1:24:58] >> Yes. Thanks for coming.
[1:25:00] >> Amazing job.
[1:25:01] >> Um, I heard from some of the same
[1:25:03] residents, so I do have a couple of
[1:25:04] follow-up questions on some things. Just
[1:25:06] want to make sure they're clear and I'm
[1:25:08] clear. Um, first of all,
[1:25:11] I just it sounds like you you're gonna
[1:25:14] meet every
[1:25:16] um benefit of the bookmobile that's
[1:25:18] already being provided to our residents.
[1:25:20] So, Mr. Jolly expressed concern about he
[1:25:21] likes to use the bookmobile and he was
[1:25:23] worried about maybe losing out on some
[1:25:25] of that, but it sounds like that is
[1:25:27] going to be available for everybody in
[1:25:29] for with extended hours. And I really
[1:25:31] like what you've done with with River
[1:25:32] Meadows. I do having uh in-laws that are
[1:25:36] now in assisted living how much they
[1:25:37] like to get out. I think that's great
[1:25:39] that they can come or you guys can take
[1:25:40] the books to them.
[1:25:42] >> So are you you currently meet all the
[1:25:45] requirements to join the Beehive
[1:25:47] Consortium. Is that
[1:25:49] >> Yes. Um
[1:25:50] >> I I got a a text from Jen today because
[1:25:53] I was asking one of the one resident
[1:25:56] asked be concerned about okay I can get
[1:25:57] my ebooks but am I going to get physical
[1:25:59] books? Am I going to get the physical
[1:26:00] copies? And Jen said, "Yeah, we're
[1:26:03] exploring a new program with a state
[1:26:04] library. It's different from the Juniper
[1:26:06] Consortium."
[1:26:08] So is do we already meet those
[1:26:09] requirements or is there something about
[1:26:10] a full-time librarian requirement that I
[1:26:12] hear rumors about?
[1:26:13] >> Okay, so that so full-time two different
[1:26:16] things here. We have full-time librarian
[1:26:18] that is a whole different animal and
[1:26:20] we're not even proposing that or even
[1:26:22] thinking that that is even going to be a
[1:26:23] possibility. It will continue to be
[1:26:24] volunteer. that would be part of if we
[1:26:27] were become a state certified library
[1:26:30] and that is a whole another set of of
[1:26:32] benchmarks kind of what I was referring
[1:26:33] to joining those larger libraries
[1:26:36] different consortium different
[1:26:37] benchmarks so no full-time librarian we
[1:26:40] this money will not be to pay staff so
[1:26:43] just to be clear and then as far as the
[1:26:46] physical books go it's part of that MOA
[1:26:48] that we would build out with you guys
[1:26:51] and with the state library division that
[1:26:53] would include both physical and digital
[1:26:56] media and like I said, our goal is to
[1:26:59] make sure we're taking nothing away.
[1:27:00] That is so important to us.
[1:27:02] >> So when when will you know if that's
[1:27:04] going to work, that you can not take
[1:27:06] anything away from the bookmobile access
[1:27:08] that will now be transferred to you?
[1:27:10] >> In our meetings with the state library
[1:27:12] division, we feel confident that it will
[1:27:14] work. So we'll know when we get approval
[1:27:17] of this agenda item.
[1:27:20] >> You'll know by in
[1:27:22] >> if you say yes, then we can move
[1:27:23] forward. and we're kind of waiting.
[1:27:25] We've already started the training.
[1:27:27] We've already started making sure that
[1:27:28] we're setting up in order to be
[1:27:30] successful in this. So, really, it's
[1:27:32] just a a green light from you guys.
[1:27:35] >> Okay. And then the other question has to
[1:27:36] do with I I was surprised to learn from
[1:27:39] you last week that the Goo family
[1:27:42] basically gave that property to the
[1:27:45] nonprofit, which is great. The goose,
[1:27:46] that's it is
[1:27:47] >> wonderful for them to provide that.
[1:27:49] >> We're very grateful. Um, but it was a
[1:27:51] surprise to me because uh we work so
[1:27:54] hard to try and make the orchard as safe
[1:27:57] as possible. And I want I just want to
[1:28:00] make sure that these expanded services
[1:28:02] that the library is offering isn't going
[1:28:04] to increase traffic to the point that
[1:28:06] it's no longer we this is going to be
[1:28:09] our first year understanding how well
[1:28:11] that property that that new parking lot
[1:28:12] works.
[1:28:13] >> Yes.
[1:28:13] >> It wasn't really in operation until
[1:28:15] August or I believe so or at the end of
[1:28:17] their season.
[1:28:18] >> Late summer. Yeah. So, we're still have
[1:28:19] it's going to be a test period to see
[1:28:20] how it's working, but just want to make
[1:28:23] sure that this added
[1:28:25] traffic to the library location isn't
[1:28:27] going to create a safety concern when
[1:28:30] it's running at the same time as the as
[1:28:33] the um the orchard. So, right now, your
[1:28:36] website shows hours until 5:00 PM on
[1:28:38] most days and classes on the days you're
[1:28:41] closed as well.
[1:28:42] >> So, I assume your your website will
[1:28:44] change on July 1st showing the new
[1:28:46] hours.
[1:28:47] >> Yes. So currently the hours that we are
[1:28:50] currently operating still fit within our
[1:28:53] permit hours. So the hours outlined in
[1:28:56] our conditional use permit and we can
[1:28:58] send a copy of that to you if you'd like
[1:29:00] to review it.
[1:29:01] >> Yeah, I asked Heidi to have that ready
[1:29:02] for today, but if I can review it later.
[1:29:04] We don't need to bring it up now unless
[1:29:06] >> Yeah, we can I can send it to you. But
[1:29:07] >> but you mentioned earlier that when the orchard is operating then
[1:29:12] you're restricting your hours until Is
[1:29:14] that the conditional use condition? Yes,
[1:29:17] it is part of our permit. And also, so
[1:29:19] for example, right now we offer some
[1:29:21] Saturday classes. During orchard season,
[1:29:23] we would not offer anything on Saturday.
[1:29:25] >> No, no operational hours or any other
[1:29:28] >> nothing like absolutely nothing on
[1:29:30] Saturdays.
[1:29:31] >> And the language classes or the other
[1:29:32] classes in the evening or
[1:29:34] >> I think those are kind of based on
[1:29:36] demand. And so like we have people sign
[1:29:38] up for those things. That's how we
[1:29:40] control how many patrons are coming is
[1:29:42] they're all registration required kind
[1:29:44] of thing. And we haven't found that
[1:29:46] we've exceeded, you know, beyond what
[1:29:49] would be reasonable for the parking lot
[1:29:51] to manage, especially in the offse. But
[1:29:54] during the on uh the orchard season, how
[1:29:57] that would look is if it becomes that
[1:30:00] we're a problem, we close. So that
[1:30:03] wording is in our permit that should the
[1:30:06] parking lot be full and we're taking up
[1:30:09] too many spots, um then we would
[1:30:11] actually close down. And
[1:30:12] >> so that would be before 3:00. At 3:00
[1:30:15] under the permit, you are
[1:30:17] >> on Fridays and on Monday through
[1:30:20] Thursday it is till 5:00 pm.
[1:30:21] >> Until 5.
[1:30:22] >> Yes.
[1:30:22] >> So I I wish I would I was gone for the
[1:30:24] last week out of town and I was trying
[1:30:25] to
[1:30:26] >> prepare. That's why I asked to have a
[1:30:27] copy.
[1:30:28] >> We'll send that over to you ASAP. So you
[1:30:30] can review that.
[1:30:31] >> So who who will be in charge of making
[1:30:33] that decision if if it gets too crowded
[1:30:35] and people are starting to park up on
[1:30:37] further up on Baitman and things like
[1:30:39] that? Who who's monitoring that? Who
[1:30:41] will make that decision? So what happens
[1:30:42] up on Baitman is more of the orchard's
[1:30:45] responsibility. Um and we don't have a
[1:30:48] control over how they run their
[1:30:50] business, right? We have a unique
[1:30:52] easement on our parking. That's how it
[1:30:54] is worded is that the orchard has an
[1:30:56] easement on the parking portion of our
[1:30:59] property to use. So the baitment is kind
[1:31:02] of out of our jurisdiction. However, if
[1:31:04] the parking lot itself is full and we're
[1:31:07] observing, then the librarian in charge
[1:31:10] would then and we have this written into
[1:31:12] our policies that we have all of our
[1:31:14] volunteers trained on. And there's
[1:31:16] usually one of our board members is
[1:31:18] there at the library kind of overseeing
[1:31:20] things. We each have a kind of time that
[1:31:22] we take and so it would kind of be up to
[1:31:26] us and our observation but we have it
[1:31:27] built into our training that we are
[1:31:29] supposed to kind of go out look at the
[1:31:31] parking situation see how it's going and
[1:31:33] make those kind of evaluations and we
[1:31:35] could do it every 20 minutes we could do
[1:31:37] it every 10 minutes our priority is to
[1:31:41] make sure that we're not causing a
[1:31:42] problem so we really don't want to be
[1:31:44] adding to the problem so
[1:31:47] >> that's was one of the concerns of
[1:31:48] residents when they found out that the
[1:31:51] property had been gifted to the library
[1:31:53] from the goose that now who's going to
[1:31:56] monitor this because the whole reason I
[1:31:57] mean not the whole reason a big part of
[1:32:00] the reason why the parking lot was
[1:32:02] approved in the first place was to
[1:32:04] alleviate the parking and safety
[1:32:05] concerns on Baitman and into the
[1:32:08] adjoining neighborhoods
[1:32:09] >> naturally. of the concerns as as Andrew
[1:32:11] brought up and his residents have
[1:32:13] brought up to me is now what now I mean
[1:32:17] yeah they might be full with with
[1:32:19] library patrons customers for the
[1:32:22] orchard and so now people are parking
[1:32:24] back up into the into the residences
[1:32:26] area and they're just concerned about
[1:32:28] that
[1:32:29] >> right and we could start to look at
[1:32:31] things like let's say there's more than
[1:32:32] five people in the library at a given
[1:32:35] time you know we're going to look at is
[1:32:36] this a family of you know four kids that
[1:32:39] had one car and there's one librarian. I
[1:32:41] know we've talked as a board like I'm
[1:32:43] going to ride my bike in the summer so
[1:32:44] there isn't a car space taken up. Like
[1:32:46] we can do things like that. We can we've
[1:32:48] talked about creating programs like walk
[1:32:50] to the library day and all those kinds
[1:32:52] of things. We we're supportive of tra um
[1:32:55] traffic calming measures that Andrew has
[1:32:56] tried to bring up. So, we're going to
[1:32:58] participate in all of these things to
[1:33:00] help alleviate these problems and
[1:33:02] provide solutions, not just, you know,
[1:33:06] we don't like this. We know that, but
[1:33:08] let's get creative about solving these
[1:33:10] issues because we like the orchard, we
[1:33:12] like the library. How can we solve these
[1:33:14] issues to make this a possibility and
[1:33:16] not a problem?
[1:33:17] >> Great. Thanks. Hey,
[1:33:18] >> and I'm sure we'll hear if if it ends up
[1:33:21] being an issue. I am sure we will.
[1:33:23] >> We'll be we'll be flexible and try and
[1:33:25] work work together to figure it out. But
[1:33:27] >> and I want them to like let's talk about
[1:33:30] this. Let's be neighbors, right? Let's
[1:33:31] have conversations
[1:33:33] >> and um and work.
[1:33:34] >> I really like I really do like that
[1:33:35] you're identifying something that will
[1:33:37] improve the situation for Alpine with
[1:33:39] greater access, more time while not
[1:33:43] losing any access for anyone who wants
[1:33:44] the bookmobile.
[1:33:45] >> Yes.
[1:33:46] >> Our my family is a big library user. My
[1:33:48] wife is one of those 4%. Um,
[1:33:50] >> thank you, Allison.
[1:33:53] >> All right, any other questions? Um, just
[1:33:55] a question for Shane. What were we going
[1:33:58] to do if the house that didn't that's
[1:34:00] the library now had a family living in
[1:34:02] it? Were we going to monitor parking for
[1:34:06] residential use?
[1:34:09] >> That's my recollection. And Ryan's
[1:34:11] actually online. He might be able to
[1:34:13] address that better than me because he
[1:34:15] was at the planning commission meetings
[1:34:17] where that was discussed, but that that
[1:34:21] was my I know we brought that issue up.
[1:34:23] >> Okay. So, that was also addressed as a
[1:34:25] private residence.
[1:34:27] >> Yeah.
[1:34:27] >> Okay.
[1:34:27] >> Yes.
[1:34:28] >> Just curious and thinking about parking
[1:34:30] and new bike riding.
[1:34:31] >> Yes.
[1:34:31] >> I like that idea.
[1:34:32] >> Well, my little pedals, you know.
[1:34:34] >> Yeah. So, um you know, as I I really
[1:34:37] appreciate all the work you all are
[1:34:39] doing and creating this community asset.
[1:34:42] I think maybe as many people as Andrew
[1:34:45] talks to that are unhappy. I I talked to
[1:34:48] many that are very very happy and and
[1:34:50] couldn't be more ecstatic like you said
[1:34:51] really um if you read our history this
[1:34:55] building had a a library in it. So the
[1:34:58] fact that we have this library again is
[1:35:00] really phenomenal as we work hard to
[1:35:03] preserve Alpine history. A couple of
[1:35:06] things. So, what I'm understanding is
[1:35:08] we're just talking about taking the
[1:35:09] exact same dollars and putting it
[1:35:12] towards the library. You know, we've heard many times we, you know, we
[1:35:16] don't have a big retail sales tax base
[1:35:18] and we really do stretch our dollar here
[1:35:20] in Alpine when I see we're getting, you
[1:35:23] know, I think is it $84 versus or
[1:35:27] >> 87 versus 11.
[1:35:28] >> Yeah. I mean, I I think we can check
[1:35:30] that box that we are really getting a
[1:35:32] value um for that same 13,596.
[1:35:37] Um I've been spending a lot of time in
[1:35:40] our general plan. For those of you that
[1:35:43] may or may not know, every city has a
[1:35:45] general plan. It's a governing document
[1:35:46] or guiding document um that we can
[1:35:49] really lean to as we look to make these
[1:35:51] really difficult decisions for a
[1:35:53] community that oftentimes isn't aligned.
[1:35:57] In our very first mission statement of
[1:35:59] our general plan, it says it's to
[1:36:01] provide a strong positive civic image
[1:36:04] and quality of life in Alpine. I
[1:36:06] definitely see that this library and and
[1:36:09] reallocating these funds. Check that
[1:36:11] box. Another um this is interesting.
[1:36:14] It's in our land use section of our
[1:36:16] general plan. Um but you would wonder,
[1:36:20] well, how does a library fit within our
[1:36:22] land use? We actually have a policy that
[1:36:24] says encourage, develop, and or maintain
[1:36:28] venues that enhance a sense of community
[1:36:31] and provide residents an opportunity to
[1:36:33] congregate, including public gathering
[1:36:36] spaces. So, you know, thank you for
[1:36:39] expanding that. It's great that you
[1:36:41] remember the bookmobile, but I love that
[1:36:43] we've now are looking at broadening that
[1:36:47] footprint to again align with our
[1:36:49] general plan. And then lastly,
[1:36:52] um
[1:36:54] we have a section in our general plan
[1:36:56] under community engagement. And those
[1:36:58] policies read, "Encourage resident
[1:37:01] committees to create community
[1:37:03] engagement. Plan support and conduct
[1:37:05] public gatherings to strengthen resident
[1:37:07] social connections, promote interactive
[1:37:10] and transparent communication through
[1:37:12] online and printed mediums." So again,
[1:37:16] thank you for for aligning with our
[1:37:19] general plan. And I think you guys will
[1:37:22] work hard to make sure that the drama is
[1:37:26] kind of is moved beyond because really
[1:37:29] all the goodness that you're bringing um
[1:37:32] I believe you'll be able to outweigh
[1:37:34] some of those issues. So thank you.
[1:37:36] >> I hope so. Thank you Jessica.
[1:37:38] >> Thank you Jessica. Do you have any
[1:37:39] >> um thanks for being here on your
[1:37:41] birthday.
[1:37:42] >> You're welcome.
[1:37:43] >> I don't know very many people who would
[1:37:44] choose to come here on their birthday.
[1:37:46] So good job.
[1:37:47] >> Budget decisions are looming. So,
[1:37:50] um, the pros that I see are just
[1:37:52] material access, physical accessibility,
[1:37:56] and that it stays local. And so, I I see
[1:37:59] a lot of pros. Um, although I am one of
[1:38:03] the petitioners, I love just making sure
[1:38:06] that I have all the facts. So,
[1:38:08] currently, do you guys are you in
[1:38:10] compliance with your conditional use
[1:38:12] permit?
[1:38:13] >> Yes. Okay, perfect. because I know that
[1:38:16] there was one question about access
[1:38:20] enter exit should be off alpine highway
[1:38:23] is that so the wording in our
[1:38:26] conditional use permit is that we should
[1:38:28] regrade that secondary egress so when
[1:38:31] possible and so that decision was made
[1:38:34] at the permit meeting which was in
[1:38:36] November and then it was winter and we
[1:38:38] were anticipating that we would have a
[1:38:40] real winter and so we blocked that off
[1:38:43] um to not be able to use that. And now
[1:38:46] that we have learned that there's not
[1:38:48] going to be a winter, we feel that we
[1:38:49] are able to regrade that and we're
[1:38:52] working on a plan right now. We have the
[1:38:54] surveys done on the property itself. We
[1:38:57] have a team of people who have been
[1:38:59] willing to volunteer their time, a
[1:39:01] landscape architect and a landscape
[1:39:03] designer to regrade that. Um, it's just
[1:39:07] going to cost money, which as a
[1:39:09] nonprofit is, you know, very precious.
[1:39:13] And so it's just going to take some
[1:39:15] time, but we feel that we're in
[1:39:17] compliance because we have plans. We're
[1:39:19] working on it and it's currently not in
[1:39:21] use. And our goal is to make sure that is ready for orchard season. So
[1:39:25] that creates a a nice flow for orchard
[1:39:28] traffic.
[1:39:29] >> Great. And is that um the Alpine Highway
[1:39:33] access, is that considered in your
[1:39:35] permit a secondary access? So, is the
[1:39:37] primary access supposed to be off
[1:39:39] Baitman Lane or
[1:39:40] >> So, our permit never specified primary
[1:39:43] versus secondary.
[1:39:44] >> Okay.
[1:39:46] Um, I've just gotten some feedback that
[1:39:49] they would prefer to have the traffic
[1:39:51] entering in from Alpine Highway. You're
[1:39:53] probably already aware of that. Anyway,
[1:39:54] just thought I'd pass that along.
[1:39:55] >> I've heard that that um the neighbors
[1:39:58] preferred it. However, that was not
[1:40:00] addressed in the planning commission
[1:40:02] meeting or in our permit.
[1:40:03] >> Okay. And uh we talked about kind of
[1:40:07] egress and what how that would flow and
[1:40:10] I don't know that it really makes a
[1:40:13] difference in where people go in or out.
[1:40:16] Um and again I want to make it clear
[1:40:19] that while we share a parking lot with
[1:40:22] the orchard, we do not have any say on
[1:40:24] how they run their business.
[1:40:27] >> So we don't want to inherit the
[1:40:30] complaints that come because of that.
[1:40:32] We're super grateful for this property.
[1:40:34] We could have never done what we've done
[1:40:35] without this gift and we are going to
[1:40:38] try to do our part to make sure we're
[1:40:40] not contributing and adding to the
[1:40:42] problem,
[1:40:43] >> but um there's limited control on our
[1:40:45] part on how that goes.
[1:40:47] >> Okay. Thanks. And are you currently ADA
[1:40:50] compliant or working towards I know
[1:40:52] you're a nonprofit and that takes funds
[1:40:54] to be able to pour cement for a ramp.
[1:40:57] That's very expensive. So,
[1:40:58] >> correct. So, we have a temporary um ex
[1:41:02] access ramp um that allows the ADA
[1:41:06] access and the permit specifies that we
[1:41:09] are to be ADA accessible when possible.
[1:41:14] So, we are kind of we were grateful for
[1:41:17] that generosity and that clause that we
[1:41:20] kind of have time to raise the money.
[1:41:22] Um, we're working on kind of compacting
[1:41:25] the gravel portion of our access. So, we
[1:41:28] have a kind of a wood ramp up the front,
[1:41:30] a gravel path, and then it turns to
[1:41:33] cement and then another ramp up through
[1:41:34] the back door. Um, so you can get in and
[1:41:38] wheelchair strollers, walkers. We have
[1:41:40] had patrons come up using those and um,
[1:41:44] so we're it's going well so far and we
[1:41:46] are going to continue to improve it. We
[1:41:47] want that to be an ideal situation.
[1:41:50] >> Thanks. And the reason I was asking, and
[1:41:52] you're already aware of this because we
[1:41:53] talked about this, but um River Meadows
[1:41:56] uses the books Bookmo. Um talking with
[1:41:59] them, currently only about two of their
[1:42:00] patrons use it, but they would love to
[1:42:02] come to and do an outing and they could
[1:42:05] bust them over. However, almost all of
[1:42:07] them use walkers.
[1:42:08] >> Correct. So, um, they felt like it would
[1:42:12] be very challenging for their patrons to
[1:42:14] actually go inside the building and that
[1:42:16] they would have to just utilize like the
[1:42:20] curbside
[1:42:21] >> curbside or the or the mobile catalog,
[1:42:23] right?
[1:42:23] >> Yes. So, I actually talked to Josh and
[1:42:25] Paula about this today and said like,
[1:42:27] "Hey, we're this is still in progress.
[1:42:30] um we use volunteers and so it just
[1:42:32] takes time and so we still need to
[1:42:34] compact and then actually use a
[1:42:36] landscapecape glue to kind of firm up
[1:42:39] that surface and if that doesn't work
[1:42:41] then we go to the next step so we
[1:42:43] definitely want to make it accessible.
[1:42:44] Perfect. And then I guess along those
[1:42:46] same lines, my question probably is for
[1:42:48] Steve Doxy is, you know, if we're using
[1:42:51] city funds for this um library and say
[1:42:55] someone gets injured or hurt, what's our
[1:42:58] liability?
[1:43:02] » That's one of the issues I'd like to see
[1:43:03] addressed.
[1:43:04] >> Okay. So, if you're talking about having
[1:43:07] a memorandum of agreement ready for next
[1:43:11] council meeting to be voted upon, we
[1:43:14] need to see a draft sooner than later.
[1:43:16] >> Okay. Um and then sorry I thank you for
[1:43:20] that.
[1:43:22] Um my only other concern is um you know
[1:43:28] if if we are putting funds to this
[1:43:29] library does it become a city affiliated
[1:43:32] library and if so I've just um in our
[1:43:38] conversations and one that I had with
[1:43:40] Jen Wadsworth was that the end goal is
[1:43:43] to become a state certified library
[1:43:46] which would require the city to be
[1:43:48] paying for a full-time librarian and
[1:43:50] that is do I still understand that your the end goal is to become that?
[1:43:56] >> Yes, it is the end goal because of the
[1:44:01] options that it would open up to us. So,
[1:44:03] if you think about it as a ladder, you
[1:44:05] know, we're nonprofit volunteer down
[1:44:07] here, donor based, our next step is what
[1:44:09] we're proposing tonight. And I would
[1:44:11] probably say five more rungs up is that
[1:44:14] state certification and that it would
[1:44:16] involve a full-time employee or a
[1:44:18] full-time equivalent. So it could be
[1:44:20] someone who lives there or there's lots
[1:44:23] of flexibility in that and also the city
[1:44:25] would pay a portion of the budget but we
[1:44:28] are not um I couldn't tell you
[1:44:32] definitively what the timing on that
[1:44:33] would be
[1:44:34] >> but we feel that we can operate with
[1:44:37] this current proposal for a long time
[1:44:40] happily and be able to provide the
[1:44:42] residents with what they want. So, while
[1:44:45] we are going to work towards meeting
[1:44:46] those certifications because we feel if
[1:44:49] you're doing it, you might as well do it
[1:44:50] right. Um, the timing on what that would
[1:44:53] look like, I couldn't tell you. And it
[1:44:55] would just depend on what the residents
[1:44:57] want. Do they want more services? Can we
[1:44:59] not meet those? It will be driven by
[1:45:03] Alpine. So
[1:45:04] >> yeah, I'm just thinking about um Martha
[1:45:07] Beck who made her comment about property
[1:45:10] taxes and even Steven Jolly, you know,
[1:45:13] is this putting the nose of the camel
[1:45:15] inside the tent that eventually I that's
[1:45:18] just my biggest concern is because in
[1:45:20] Vineyard it started out as a volunteer
[1:45:22] library and now they're expending over
[1:45:24] $121,000 a year for this volunteer
[1:45:27] library. So that is my biggest concern.
[1:45:30] Um
[1:45:31] >> did you say vineyard? vineyard. Sorry,
[1:45:33] what did I say?
[1:45:34] >> No, that's what you said, but I was
[1:45:35] wasn't
[1:45:36] >> Yeah, and I just I was going back
[1:45:38] through November 18th planning
[1:45:39] commission where you talked about the
[1:45:42] conditional use permit. And I will say
[1:45:45] when you guys were talking about in
[1:45:46] reference to fundraising, Jen did say we
[1:45:49] are not asking the city to contribute to
[1:45:51] the library. So, I'm just I just want to
[1:45:54] be clear,
[1:45:55] >> what's the expectation?
[1:45:57] >> Yes. like and I know that this will be
[1:45:59] reviewed on a yearly basis and there's
[1:46:02] always a ability for the city to say you
[1:46:05] know what this isn't working correct.
[1:46:07] >> I just want to be fully transparent and
[1:46:09] make sure that
[1:46:11] >> you know we're not going to be tied to
[1:46:13] something that down the road we're you
[1:46:16] know asking residents to pay more in
[1:46:18] taxes so that we can fund this. I think
[1:46:21] that's a good question and I think it um
[1:46:24] encapsulates probably a lot of worry and
[1:46:26] concern that a lot of residents have.
[1:46:28] So, I'm glad you're asking it and I'm
[1:46:29] glad this is on public record. The
[1:46:32] answer is I don't know because I don't
[1:46:35] have a crystal ball and but I will say
[1:46:39] that um I will reiterate that I feel
[1:46:42] that we can offer the residents what
[1:46:45] they are demanding currently with this
[1:46:48] proposal. And I feel that and our board
[1:46:51] feels this way that with um those if we
[1:46:55] did come asking for money that's a
[1:46:58] different ask it would be separate from
[1:47:00] this memorandum of agreement right this
[1:47:03] memorandum of agreement will stay in
[1:47:05] this sphere and should we get to the
[1:47:07] point down the road um that we are
[1:47:10] looking for an increase in funds like a
[1:47:13] drastic increase that would really have
[1:47:15] a big impact on the residents I think
[1:47:18] that would come with a lot of
[1:47:20] forewarning. And so I just feel like
[1:47:23] it's not going to sneak up on anyone and
[1:47:25] it's not going to be a surprise to
[1:47:28] anyone at that point. It's going to come
[1:47:30] as a obvious next step. And I think
[1:47:33] there are so many um benchmarks that we
[1:47:36] have to meet before we even get to that
[1:47:38] point that in my mind I can't really
[1:47:41] fathom
[1:47:42] that at this point um because it seems
[1:47:46] so I just it seems so far out of reach.
[1:47:48] So, I hope that helps. I don't want to
[1:47:50] say we're never going to come ask you
[1:47:52] for more because if the residents want
[1:47:55] it, then I we will come to you and ask
[1:47:57] for more if we feel that that there's a
[1:47:59] demand for it. Um, so I I'm not sure.
[1:48:03] However, you have a different pool of
[1:48:06] money as you reimburse the Highland
[1:48:08] library cards that then we could
[1:48:10] discuss. And I I feel that it would not
[1:48:14] be responsible of us to create
[1:48:17] additional financial demand on the city
[1:48:20] because as residents, we all feel it as
[1:48:22] well. You know, we're all in the same
[1:48:24] boat here. So, I think there's an
[1:48:26] investment on our part in making sure
[1:48:28] that this doesn't create more
[1:48:30] expenditure and something irresponsible
[1:48:33] that isn't needed. So, that's my goal, I
[1:48:36] think, and our goal. I shouldn't say
[1:48:37] just mine, but I appreciate that and I
[1:48:40] appreciate all the time that you've
[1:48:42] devoted to the city, not just with the
[1:48:43] library. I know you've given countless
[1:48:45] hours, so I really appreciate having
[1:48:48] someone like you involved in our
[1:48:49] community. So, thanks, Bethany.
[1:48:51] >> Thank you. Thank you very much. That's
[1:48:52] very kind of you to say. I thank you for
[1:48:55] covering all my topics so I can not have
[1:48:57] to say much. Um I I I was curious where
[1:49:01] you all stood because um as they said
[1:49:03] they're on a tight timeline. So, if I
[1:49:06] don't know, Carla, at the end, how we're
[1:49:07] going to facilitate whether we put this
[1:49:09] on um before we uh expend any city
[1:49:13] resources to get our city attorney to
[1:49:16] write or review um a memorandum of
[1:49:20] understanding like we sort of need to
[1:49:22] know if we have the votes. You know how
[1:49:24] that goes. So, I'm leaving that question
[1:49:26] to you, but it's been brought up um that
[1:49:28] we're on a timeline because of the
[1:49:31] budgeting timeline that we're all aware
[1:49:33] of. Um, I did really appreciate how the
[1:49:37] accountability of how the money was
[1:49:39] going to be spent. If you guys don't
[1:49:40] know, I am an accountant, so any numbers
[1:49:43] always jump off the page. Um, we've
[1:49:46] talked about so many of the things on
[1:49:47] the list. Um, one of the things at the
[1:49:49] bottom was the facility improvement for
[1:49:51] $2,000.
[1:49:53] And having used the ADU ramp or the ADA
[1:49:56] ramp myself, yeah, we need some work
[1:49:58] there. And so I um appreciate I I think
[1:50:02] that it would be uh money well served
[1:50:04] because we do have I asked a resident
[1:50:06] who uses the um bookmo frequently like
[1:50:09] what would they miss not having the
[1:50:11] bookmobile and they said there's just a
[1:50:12] lot of um people in the older
[1:50:15] demographic even older than me who are
[1:50:17] there and right now the bookmobile is
[1:50:19] actually not ADA compliant. You can't
[1:50:21] get in it at all. So, um to make the
[1:50:25] library ADA compliant again expands the
[1:50:28] scope of services um because the step is
[1:50:32] just too high into the li into the
[1:50:33] bookmobile. Been to the bookmobile many many many times. Um I love that the
[1:50:39] library um sometimes people outside of
[1:50:41] Alpine, they have a different perception
[1:50:43] of who we are, but as Jessica shared,
[1:50:46] like those are our values and we like to
[1:50:48] gather. Um, we had another long-term
[1:50:50] resident um, talk about um, Alpine
[1:50:53] values and he brought up how we're very
[1:50:55] self-reliant and we help each other. And
[1:50:58] that's the story of the Alpine Library
[1:51:01] that we like we just roll up our sleeves
[1:51:03] and we dig dirt and we like bind books
[1:51:06] and we take the old librarian that's not
[1:51:08] working at the Alpine Elementary and we
[1:51:10] use her volunteer and her knowledge and
[1:51:13] she has, you know, great knowledge and
[1:51:16] skills and she's willing to give them to
[1:51:18] the public. And that is who we Alpine
[1:51:20] really is. It's not the if you're not
[1:51:23] from Alpine, that's who we really are.
[1:51:25] We we we lean in on each other. We help
[1:51:28] each other with good things. And um when
[1:51:31] I first moved to this area, I heard this
[1:51:34] um adage and if you go visit the Alpine
[1:51:37] Library, thank you for going, Brent,
[1:51:38] they they they embody this entirely. Fix
[1:51:42] it up, make it do or do without. There's a fourth thing, but I can't
[1:51:46] remember what it was, but it's like you
[1:51:47] don't just go out and do do fancy things
[1:51:50] because they didn't have the resources.
[1:51:53] So that's what you've done to that
[1:51:54] little old house was you fixed it up.
[1:51:56] you made it do and you do without in
[1:51:58] many ways. And so I just um am very
[1:52:01] inspired by this group of people. I am a
[1:52:04] heavy user. Allison outdoes me for sure
[1:52:07] as far as book usage, but um so I was
[1:52:10] always a pro of the library. I just
[1:52:12] didn't know where we could find the
[1:52:13] home. So again, due to the generosity of
[1:52:16] neighbors like that is who Alpine is.
[1:52:19] They see a need and they help meet it. I
[1:52:22] think we've addressed the concerns, the
[1:52:24] same concerns you brought up. I've also
[1:52:26] heard about the parking and it doesn't
[1:52:28] make any sense that you would want to
[1:52:30] jeopardize your your neighbors business
[1:52:33] because it's because of their generosity
[1:52:35] that you have a library. So to me you're
[1:52:37] going to tread very lightly and be
[1:52:39] respectful of that agreement
[1:52:41] >> very much. Um, so to me that was a
[1:52:43] no-brainer, but I I it's good to hear it
[1:52:45] in a public meeting that um the priority
[1:52:48] is definitely for the parking cuz like
[1:52:50] we would not have that house, the
[1:52:53] history of that house is it became what
[1:52:56] it is because of the need at the
[1:52:58] orchard. So we don't want to compromise
[1:53:00] meeting that need. And so I really
[1:53:02] appreciate you expressing that very well
[1:53:05] tonight.
[1:53:05] >> Thank you.
[1:53:06] >> I uh celebrated my birthday one month
[1:53:08] ago here at this meeting. So
[1:53:10] >> great minds. Yes. Well, I don't know
[1:53:12] about great minds. Crazy ladies. Yeah,
[1:53:14] crazy ladies. We just show up for
[1:53:16] meetings on our birthday instead of
[1:53:17] going to dinner. So, anyways, thank you
[1:53:20] for your work. Thank you, council, for
[1:53:22] entertaining all of this. We've devoted
[1:53:23] a ton of time to it. And so, I I give
[1:53:27] the floor back to the mayor so we can
[1:53:29] get some direction.
[1:53:30] >> Thank you. I think what you do um you
[1:53:33] know if the two are still you know
[1:53:35] wanting to move forward then you know I
[1:53:38] think you just give staff direction to
[1:53:40] move forward. If you guys can come up
[1:53:42] with a memorandum of understanding so
[1:53:45] that if you can get it in so that Steve
[1:53:47] can take a look at it. He usually comes
[1:53:49] in on um the odd Tuesdays of every
[1:53:52] month.
[1:53:53] >> Okay.
[1:53:53] >> So um if you can get in by next Tuesday.
[1:53:56] >> Okay. We'll do our best. I know that the
[1:53:57] state library division already has some
[1:53:59] kind of basic things worked out. So I
[1:54:02] think we could try to do that. So
[1:54:04] >> thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
[1:54:05] >> Thank you guys very much. Appreciate it.
[1:54:07] >> Okay, let's move on to item B. Proposed
[1:54:10] code amendment to allow indoor self
[1:54:12] storage units and condo luxury garages.
[1:54:18] See, I've been calling it luxury condo
[1:54:19] garages.
[1:54:21] >> That that could easily be changed.
[1:54:25] So, mayor, I think Ryan's having some
[1:54:27] difficulties on his end with Zoom, so I
[1:54:31] have not been involved at all with this,
[1:54:32] but I'll try to get through the staff
[1:54:34] report that he prepared and um try to
[1:54:38] cover this and then I know the
[1:54:39] applicants here and and has some
[1:54:41] information to present.
[1:54:44] So, an application has been submitted to
[1:54:46] amend the city's development code in the
[1:54:49] business commercial zone to allow indoor
[1:54:52] self-s storage units and condo luxury
[1:54:54] garages. Um, they do have a specific
[1:54:57] location in mind. Um, it's on 200 North,
[1:55:01] the former Purple Mattress property uh
[1:55:04] building there uh for this use. However,
[1:55:08] if approved this uh by the city council
[1:55:12] u based on the way this ordinance
[1:55:15] proposed ordinance is written, um it
[1:55:17] could allow other locations as well with
[1:55:19] some limitations.
[1:55:22] Um the applicant has worked with staff
[1:55:24] to propose uh language
[1:55:27] um as a conditional use within the zone.
[1:55:32] Uh that draft language is included in
[1:55:35] this packet.
[1:55:37] Um this would you know if if this were
[1:55:40] approved any project would still go
[1:55:43] through the normal process where
[1:55:45] setbacks heights uh all the different
[1:55:48] things um would be would be looked at as
[1:55:51] well.
[1:55:53] Um the early draft of the main street
[1:55:56] master plan identifies the subject area
[1:55:59] as a main street civic and mixeduse
[1:56:02] area. Um this is meant as a transition
[1:56:04] zone from commercial to residential.
[1:56:09] The com the planning commission this
[1:56:10] item did go to planning commission um
[1:56:12] back on November 18th. Um they did hold
[1:56:15] a public hearing there as required for
[1:56:17] an ordinance change.
[1:56:19] Um
[1:56:21] the discussion focused on consistency
[1:56:23] with the areas envisioned mixeduse
[1:56:26] character uh potential impacts related
[1:56:29] to traffic parking and site design. Um
[1:56:32] there were some public concerns raised
[1:56:34] during that meeting
[1:56:36] um including the press for code changes
[1:56:39] kind of driven by an individual project
[1:56:42] um and then compatibility with the
[1:56:45] community's identity.
[1:56:48] Um the applicant did uh emphasize that
[1:56:52] this would be a low uh traffic nature
[1:56:54] use um compatible with other surrounding
[1:56:57] commercial properties
[1:56:59] and uh potential demand for enclosed
[1:57:03] storage. Um the commission discussed
[1:57:06] operational considerations like parking,
[1:57:09] landscaping, screening and restrictions
[1:57:12] on business activity within units as
[1:57:14] well as the need for compliance with
[1:57:16] design guidelines and standards. Um
[1:57:21] while there was still some concern um
[1:57:24] regarding creating code changes for
[1:57:26] single site, others noted the potential
[1:57:29] community benefit
[1:57:31] and reuse of a vacant building. Um, a
[1:57:34] motion was made by uh was made to
[1:57:38] recommend approval of the proposed code
[1:57:40] amendment uh finding it consistent with
[1:57:42] the general plan and development code
[1:57:44] standards. Uh, that motion was seconded
[1:57:47] and passed unanimously.
[1:57:50] Um, the proposed code is included in the
[1:57:54] packet.
[1:57:55] Um, it's just a a new section. Uh, it's
[1:58:00] be 13 in that section of the development
[1:58:02] code. Item 13, um, indoor storage units
[1:58:06] and luxury condo garages. And there's a lot of different there's A
[1:58:10] through O in here. I could go through
[1:58:13] every single one of these if you want me
[1:58:15] to, but um, like I said, there are
[1:58:17] limitations, 3 to 5 acres in size. Um,
[1:58:22] unless
[1:58:24] basically recommended by the planning
[1:58:26] commission and city council, you
[1:58:28] couldn't have another one within a mile
[1:58:30] of of uh an existing project.
[1:58:34] Um,
[1:58:35] can't have direct direct access to Main
[1:58:37] Street. Um, there's other things in
[1:58:40] there like no garage doors facing um a
[1:58:44] street.
[1:58:45] uh you can't live
[1:58:48] uh or have over overnight accommodations
[1:58:51] in these units. Uh no commercial vehicle
[1:58:54] repair. Um there's there's a whole list
[1:58:58] of things. There's parking requirements
[1:59:00] and different things like that.
[1:59:03] Um is that enough of an introduction to
[1:59:06] this project? You want to hear from the
[1:59:08] applicant?
[1:59:10] >> Yeah, let's bring him up.
[1:59:20] Hello. Thank you uh for for letting us
[1:59:23] come here. We're excited to be here. Um
[1:59:25] just one uh thing to add with
[1:59:28] >> Oh, great point. I am Nash Nielson with
[1:59:31] Stack Real Estate. So, real estate
[1:59:33] development company based out of Lehi.
[1:59:35] Um and yeah, we went and visited the
[1:59:38] planning commission a while back. Um got
[1:59:40] a lot of feedback on that. one one
[1:59:42] comment with this when discussing with
[1:59:43] Ryan um a lot of these restrictions
[1:59:46] really limit
[1:59:48] um self storage to this this site um
[1:59:52] based on these restrictions. So I know
[1:59:54] it sounds like sounds scary because it
[1:59:56] could be at other locations but not
[1:59:58] being able to um front main street that
[2:00:01] limits it pretty heavily. 3 to 5 acres
[2:00:04] were I think the only site in the BC
[2:00:06] zone that would meet that as well. So,
[2:00:07] it is it is um with being passed, it
[2:00:10] really does only affect this site. And
[2:00:12] that's that's if you read through these
[2:00:13] items, that's kind of where that's hit.
[2:00:16] And then another thing with that Ryan
[2:00:18] mentioned back when we were discussing
[2:00:19] this in November was they had done this
[2:00:21] in the past on another use in the B in
[2:00:24] the in the same zoning. Um I believe it
[2:00:26] was an automotive um property along Main
[2:00:30] Street that was kind of followed the
[2:00:32] exact same possible uh pathway there.
[2:00:35] So, um, with that, I think I could jump
[2:00:38] into our our presentation if that's all
[2:00:41] right.
[2:00:43] >> That's right.
[2:00:46] » Um, but I guess just to start, we uh we
[2:00:52] know that this property is a hot topic
[2:00:54] in in Alpine and it um has sat vacant
[2:00:57] for a while. And so, we've stared at it
[2:01:00] for a while and tried to figure out,
[2:01:01] hey, what can we do with with this
[2:01:03] property? is expensive property. It's
[2:01:05] also got existing infrastructure. So,
[2:01:07] how do you how do you reuse that? How
[2:01:09] does
[2:01:12] » how can that um be uh
[2:01:16] >> No, you're totally totally fine. So, um tried to come up with with what we
[2:01:21] could do. We do a bunch of different
[2:01:23] development being multif family retail.
[2:01:26] Um office is kind of the core that we've
[2:01:28] done in the past and also do self
[2:01:30] storage and and luxury garage condos and
[2:01:33] uh tried to figure out that and this seemed to be a potential fit here.
[2:01:38] So we reached out uh started having
[2:01:40] discussions went to planning commission
[2:01:41] and and got unanimous approval or
[2:01:44] recommendation for approval. Um and and
[2:01:47] since that day we received a lot of
[2:01:49] feedback. I think we got, you know, 60 some odd emails or so that were
[2:01:53] forwarded from you all from the
[2:01:55] neighbors and and citizens and we all
[2:01:57] felt the same of like when I heard it of
[2:01:59] self storage and alpine uh you know barb
[2:02:02] wire fence all that kind of stuff. I'm
[2:02:04] like yeah that how that sounds sounds
[2:02:06] pretty terrible. So that was something
[2:02:08] that we were like yeah okay we need to make sure that we do that the
[2:02:12] best job that we can in resolving all
[2:02:14] the concerns that we're receiving. So,
[2:02:17] we'll kind of go through what we've done
[2:02:18] since then. Um, so if you don't mind
[2:02:21] just kind of scrolling through these, first images are just aerials of
[2:02:25] the site, historical aerials that can be
[2:02:28] shown of just through the years of what
[2:02:29] has been going on here. Uh, we met with
[2:02:32] a lot of the residents uh that above the
[2:02:34] property that shared frustration with
[2:02:36] previous uses of this being industrial.
[2:02:38] You could stop stop right there. Thank
[2:02:39] Yep. Um, and so there was some concerns,
[2:02:43] I guess, just of what has been been
[2:02:45] done. and I know that the city's well
[2:02:47] aware of uh th those issues that have
[2:02:49] been done here. So, um so this is kind
[2:02:52] of where we've landed. So, the bigger
[2:02:53] piece of this is reusili reutilizing
[2:02:56] that industrial building, the
[2:02:58] rectangular building. The bones of that
[2:02:59] are in really great shape. Um and so we
[2:03:02] could take that and and what we would do
[2:03:03] is we'd add a mezzanine layer throughout
[2:03:05] the entire interior of that and do uh
[2:03:08] two floors of climate control self
[2:03:10] storage. Um those would likely be
[2:03:13] managed by a company like Extra Space
[2:03:15] Storage where we kind of out out um get
[2:03:18] give them the keys and say, you know,
[2:03:19] run run this thing as you do because
[2:03:21] they're they're really good at doing
[2:03:22] that. And then the remainder of the
[2:03:24] property is a luxury garage condo
[2:03:26] community, which these item these are for sale um for people to be able to
[2:03:31] use and put, you know, car collections
[2:03:32] in there and and RV boat um type. We
[2:03:37] also we have a guy that reached out that
[2:03:38] was interested in um debating on
[2:03:41] building a a structure next to their
[2:03:44] house and concerns with that or just
[2:03:45] buying one of these and so could be just
[2:03:47] used as a as as a garage. Um we will
[2:03:50] have guidelines that we'll go through.
[2:03:52] So maybe we can go to the next slide
[2:03:55] here. Um this this was an older version
[2:03:58] of that we first uh laid out. We wanted
[2:04:00] to discuss with many of the neighbors
[2:04:03] that had reached out of of our desire to
[2:04:06] put more landscaping around it. Um,
[2:04:08] especially those to the the north and
[2:04:10] the Hunter uh ridge circle. Um, this doesn't incorporate the wandering
[2:04:16] stones piece that's owned by Na Nathan
[2:04:18] and Amy Stone, which we are have since
[2:04:20] incorporated to this project as well.
[2:04:22] So, um, I envision a continuation of
[2:04:25] those landscape trees that are going
[2:04:27] along that. That was a conversation that
[2:04:29] we've had with them of hey we've we
[2:04:31] heard a lot of noise um you know late
[2:04:34] night deliveries uh smoke breaks all
[2:04:36] that kind of stuff that was going on at
[2:04:37] the site. Um um so we want to want to do
[2:04:41] our best to to limit that with our with
[2:04:44] our units. Uh we anticipate much quieter
[2:04:47] neighbor for for them. But in addition
[2:04:49] to that creating privacy trees that's
[2:04:51] something that we've um um agreed to do
[2:04:55] uh with them. Um, also along you'll see
[2:04:58] along the cemetery uh road on the right
[2:05:00] hand side next to the snow acis and um
[2:05:04] balance studio and the n the residences
[2:05:06] on the on the right side that we'd be
[2:05:08] adding trees along that that property
[2:05:09] the property line does go all the way
[2:05:12] kind of to where you see there. Um and
[2:05:15] then along 200 north we'd be adding um
[2:05:19] you know a good look of of landscape
[2:05:22] along that as well.
[2:05:23] go to the next next slide there. I'll
[2:05:27] try to hurry. Um with with this is just
[2:05:29] a look at what uh these units could look
[2:05:31] like and how they would be operated.
[2:05:33] Again, just an extension of the home for
[2:05:36] a lot of the Alpine residents. The phone
[2:05:37] calls that we've received with with
[2:05:40] interest in the site. A lot of them have
[2:05:42] uh have car collections and whatnot, but
[2:05:44] again, multiple different types of uses
[2:05:46] that they've debated on uh having.
[2:05:48] There's also a few people that have uh
[2:05:50] commercial units that they've leased far
[2:05:52] away outside of the the town that they
[2:05:54] like to get their stuff closer to to
[2:05:56] their house. Um, next slide, please.
[2:05:59] This is a look of an internal of climate
[2:06:02] control self- storage units. So, it's a
[2:06:04] bunch of roller doors. They vary in
[2:06:06] sizes between 5x5s to 10 by30s. Um, so
[2:06:10] these are it's a restricted access. You
[2:06:12] can only get in if you see that code. If
[2:06:14] you're if you're a paying customer, you
[2:06:16] can use your code and have access to the
[2:06:17] building. The access to that building
[2:06:19] will be between 6:00 in the morning till
[2:06:21] about 10 or 11 at night. Um there will
[2:06:25] be a person in a in an office that'll be
[2:06:27] in there from about 9 to about 5:30 or
[2:06:30] so. Um
[2:06:32] next slide.
[2:06:34] Uh this is just to show just to show the
[2:06:36] BC zoning and what you know uses that
[2:06:38] are allowed in here. We don't need to go
[2:06:40] through all these. I know you guys are
[2:06:41] aware of these, but just threw this in
[2:06:42] there just for a little bit more of just
[2:06:45] showing what could could be built on the
[2:06:46] property without having to go through
[2:06:48] the same process that we're going
[2:06:49] through with asking for uh relief with
[2:06:52] zoning. Um we can go ahead and go to the
[2:06:55] next one.
[2:06:57] Um with this, there's been concerns
[2:06:59] about what could be in these units and how are you going to make sure that
[2:07:02] this doesn't become an extension of what
[2:07:04] was in the past with industrial and
[2:07:06] everything like that. So just just to
[2:07:08] run through, uh no one's going to be
[2:07:10] living in these or sleeping in these. So
[2:07:12] no residential uses. Uh the the idea is
[2:07:15] not to have any customer traffic. So a
[2:07:18] business can't go in there and and
[2:07:19] operate um and sell uh units directly to
[2:07:24] customers and everything like that. So
[2:07:26] that's limited. Um just like in a town
[2:07:29] home community, you don't want your
[2:07:30] neighbor being loud and making a bunch
[2:07:31] of noise and messing things up. So that
[2:07:34] was um just some list of of of items in
[2:07:38] there. We can come back to that with any
[2:07:40] questions you have. Go to the next one,
[2:07:43] please. Thank you. And so I just wanted
[2:07:45] to show this as well. Uh there's various
[2:07:48] concerns throughout the city on on um
[2:07:52] why storage here and and a different issues. In summary, we kind of
[2:07:57] were looking at some of those of
[2:08:00] immediate neighbors. were very concerned
[2:08:01] with aesthetics, look and feel, very
[2:08:04] concerned with traffic, especially the
[2:08:06] residences. Uh there were a couple
[2:08:07] business owners that weren't as
[2:08:09] concerned of traffic. Uh concerned with
[2:08:12] noise and how that would impact business
[2:08:13] as well as uh you know just living next door. Parking. Parking
[2:08:18] historically has been a very large issue
[2:08:20] with this property. Um privacy uh you
[2:08:24] know what what you know people looking
[2:08:26] into backyards and stuff like that.
[2:08:27] Would that happen? Would there be
[2:08:28] windows and such? uh which we we will
[2:08:31] not have any windows that'll be directly
[2:08:33] looking into backyards. Uh property
[2:08:35] values, I think with with that um we've
[2:08:38] had I think you've seen the pricing on
[2:08:40] these. This is a luxury item uh for for
[2:08:44] owners, people that are buying that. I
[2:08:46] think this is only going to be more of a
[2:08:47] benefit, especially next door to um
[2:08:50] either an industrial building or a
[2:08:51] vacant
[2:08:53] industrial building. Um yeah, light
[2:08:56] pollution. Also, we're not a parking
[2:08:58] lot. We don't need to have uh lights
[2:09:01] spraying outside of the property.
[2:09:02] Everything's down lit inside internally.
[2:09:04] The only thing that would be outside is
[2:09:06] just landscape that makes the building
[2:09:07] look good at night. Um and then as you
[2:09:10] got a little bit further away,
[2:09:11] aesthetics was always a big issue.
[2:09:13] Doesn't matter where you live, they want
[2:09:14] to make sure that this was u um matched
[2:09:17] the look and feel, which we feel
[2:09:19] strongly as well. And we, you know,
[2:09:20] wanted to do a good job, and that's why
[2:09:22] it's taken us a couple months to come
[2:09:24] back here. Um but as you got farther
[2:09:26] away uh there were some concerns of is
[2:09:28] this the highest and best use to self
[2:09:30] storage belong in Alpine. Um this could
[2:09:33] be used for a little bit better
[2:09:35] opportunities such as housing or or
[2:09:37] retail something that's that that adds to the city. So if I can drive in
[2:09:42] and spend a little bit of money there
[2:09:44] that that was kind of what that member
[2:09:45] So it in in meeting with a few different
[2:09:48] members in their homes there there some
[2:09:51] of them would say I just don't want any
[2:09:53] traffic any increase in traffic. It's
[2:09:55] already crazy and I was standing on
[2:09:56] their porch and seeing you know right
[2:09:58] around the 3 to 5:00 mark where there's
[2:10:01] kids getting out of school that 200
[2:10:02] north gets gets pretty wild. And they,
[2:10:04] you know, one of them had had been been
[2:10:06] there for 50 years or so. It said, you
[2:10:08] know, you used to could play kick the
[2:10:09] can on the road at night and now
[2:10:11] obviously there's many, many cars that
[2:10:13] were going. So that was a big concern.
[2:10:15] And then, you know, if you go to there,
[2:10:17] there's another business owner that we met were just really hoping that
[2:10:20] retail could be their neighbor, you
[2:10:22] know. So very even immediately there
[2:10:24] were some some some differing concerns
[2:10:26] there. So we understand very difficult
[2:10:29] um property um with with uh but we we
[2:10:33] feel like we're a good solution uh to
[2:10:36] again to the traffic. We can keep going
[2:10:38] through our slides here. So again
[2:10:41] aesthetics was a concern. Storage is
[2:10:42] ugly. Doesn't fit our our our
[2:10:45] character. We are responding to that by
[2:10:48] an upscaled facade um based on some of
[2:10:51] the inspiration that we received from
[2:10:52] the town as well as just telling our
[2:10:55] architect, hey, let's let's do as good
[2:10:56] as we can and let's let's let's push as
[2:10:59] hard as we can to make this thing look
[2:11:00] good. It doesn't necessarily look like a
[2:11:01] self-s storage facility anymore in my
[2:11:03] opinion. So, one of our concerns is now
[2:11:05] that we're going to build this and make
[2:11:06] it look this like this, are we going to
[2:11:08] be able to have our customers know what
[2:11:09] we are and be able to get to our
[2:11:11] facility?
[2:11:12] Uh traffic kind of just chatted through
[2:11:14] that. Again, we're very very low trip
[2:11:16] generator. Uh noise. Uh we got CCNRs are
[2:11:21] going to prohibit uh noise and
[2:11:22] everything like that. We're not going to
[2:11:23] have a lot of employees, no customer
[2:11:26] traffic. Um there was also a concern of
[2:11:29] a lot of box trucks going on. A lot of
[2:11:30] self storage facilities do have box
[2:11:32] trucks and that being an issue. Um we
[2:11:35] will agree and something that we could
[2:11:37] add in here uh to the code that I do not
[2:11:39] believe is in there right now is that we
[2:11:41] would restrict leasing of U-Haul trucks.
[2:11:44] A lot of self-s storage facilities will
[2:11:46] park four or five trucks next to their
[2:11:47] building and lease them out as an income
[2:11:50] stream. And so we'd be willing to
[2:11:52] include that and just assure like that's
[2:11:54] not going to be a part of our business.
[2:11:56] Doesn't look good. It's it's loud,
[2:11:58] noisy. So, um something that's there. Um
[2:12:03] yeah, I think kind of touched on
[2:12:04] everything else. We can kind of move to
[2:12:06] the next one.
[2:12:09] Thank you. Here's just images that I I
[2:12:11] caught on Google Earth of historical
[2:12:13] traffic issues where there's just a
[2:12:14] bunch of traffic that was spilling over
[2:12:16] uh due to previous industrial use. Can
[2:12:19] move to next one. Thank you. Another
[2:12:22] picture of that just showing historical
[2:12:24] what the the neighbors have had to deal
[2:12:26] with. Next one, please. Uh traffic. This
[2:12:30] is a if you go to the IT, which is the
[2:12:33] Institute of Traffic Engineers, it's a
[2:12:36] it's kind of like building codes for the
[2:12:38] entire country type for engineers to be
[2:12:40] able to look up what is traffic for
[2:12:41] these type of uses. Um, you can punch in
[2:12:43] there, you can even ask chat GPT or
[2:12:45] anything of of hey, what what's the self
[2:12:48] if you build a 100,000 square foot of
[2:12:50] each of these different things, what's
[2:12:51] the traffic that would be generated? So,
[2:12:53] this isn't just my my word. This is a
[2:12:55] very specific code. Code 151 shows that
[2:12:59] we'd only have, you know, seven trips in
[2:13:02] an hour um peak hour AM and then 12 peak
[2:13:07] hour on this is like a Saturday. So very low traffic generator. So again,
[2:13:12] also reduces the need for parking for our specific use.
[2:13:16] All right. In comparison to other uses
[2:13:20] that um could go here.
[2:13:23] Next one there. Oh, yep. No, you're
[2:13:25] totally fine. These are some of the
[2:13:26] existing in the zone. So, some of the
[2:13:28] concerns we had of we want it to look
[2:13:30] good. Um, when we came here last time or
[2:13:32] came to planning commission, I didn't
[2:13:33] know exactly what um what to go off of
[2:13:36] because there were some varying things.
[2:13:37] We've had some great discussion with uh
[2:13:40] the the town and the city and and and
[2:13:42] many of you of Yeah. Here here's uh if
[2:13:45] you go to the next slide, here's some
[2:13:47] examples of what we what we'd like and
[2:13:49] what we'd envision. I know that there's
[2:13:50] a lot of work that that's kind of still
[2:13:52] in the works for uh the the uh the BC
[2:13:56] zone along Main Street about what you
[2:13:57] want that to look like. And so we we
[2:13:59] took that and I I think if you go to the
[2:14:01] next slide, this is kind of where we've landed. Now I I know I've
[2:14:06] also got a comment of like there's a lot
[2:14:07] of brown there. We're not married to any
[2:14:09] of these uh specific colors. This was
[2:14:12] just showing um there was a major
[2:14:15] concern of a long wall that looks like a
[2:14:17] prison. So, let's make sure that it's
[2:14:19] not just a long wall. There's two and
[2:14:20] four foot jogs in the building. As you
[2:14:23] go, you know, as you head west here,
[2:14:26] there's also elevation changes with
[2:14:28] different roof pitches. So, you can see
[2:14:30] multiple different, you know, elevation
[2:14:32] changes there. And then a little bit of
[2:14:34] dimension here on this corner because it
[2:14:36] seemed like this this corner is a big um
[2:14:39] opportunity for us to make it look
[2:14:40] really good. Um, one more picture there,
[2:14:44] I think. Yeah. So that's looking kind of
[2:14:47] in the other direction. So um the these
[2:14:50] uh lower level windows are spandre
[2:14:53] glass. So they will not be functional
[2:14:55] units or functional glass but they're
[2:14:57] you know we're adding them there because
[2:14:59] we felt like it needed to look just
[2:15:01] dress it up as much as we possibly can
[2:15:03] along that. This would be what we'd
[2:15:05] refer to as the primary facade which
[2:15:07] we've agreed to kind of wrap around on
[2:15:10] the west side along um the knot and pine
[2:15:13] business as well as wrap around on the
[2:15:15] other side to the um snow oasis and
[2:15:18] balance studio side. So that way as
[2:15:20] you're on 200 north and where you know
[2:15:23] majority of the traffic majority of
[2:15:24] people are going to see you're going to
[2:15:25] be able to look at this this type of
[2:15:27] facade. So um happy to answer any
[2:15:30] questions. Sorry, I got a lot of long
[2:15:32] longwinded there, but
[2:15:33] >> No, we'll start with Chrissy.
[2:15:36] >> Okay.
[2:15:37] great. Um,
[2:15:38] >> that those that was a really good um
[2:15:40] presentation. Very informative.
[2:15:43] >> Thank you. I didn't practice in the
[2:15:45] truck by myself at all. I promise. No,
[2:15:47] I'm just kidding.
[2:15:47] >> No, it it was worth it. Um, I had a a
[2:15:52] couple questions about the code, so I'm
[2:15:54] not sure I should address those to you.
[2:15:56] Do you want us to talk about code and
[2:15:58] the presentation,
[2:16:00] >> mayor? Okay. Um I'll start with the
[2:16:02] presentation then go to code because
[2:16:04] that's what we just heard was the
[2:16:05] presentation. Um the I really do
[2:16:08] appreciate the effort to address
[2:16:10] aesthetics. We um are in the middle of a
[2:16:12] Main Street gateway re redo and so uh
[2:16:16] that is not um has not come before the
[2:16:18] council or you know been finalized. So
[2:16:21] you're ahead of the game in that way.
[2:16:23] Um, I was of the mind to table this
[2:16:25] until we could get that all wrapped up
[2:16:28] so that you're compliant with our new
[2:16:30] view of what Alpine should look like.
[2:16:33] But, um, you've you've addressed that.
[2:16:35] And I don't know, we'll have to talk
[2:16:37] with, you know, our new planner and
[2:16:39] Shane to make sure that the wherever we
[2:16:42] end up with all of those things that
[2:16:44] it's going to look like the new alpine
[2:16:46] that we want to see. So, um, all of
[2:16:48] these pictures were very appreciative
[2:16:50] and they talked about massing and and, um, scaling and, you know, breaking
[2:16:56] up the walls and all of that in our new
[2:16:58] code. So, you you done a great job with
[2:17:00] that. Um, also referencing an an honest
[2:17:03] source about traffic because so much of
[2:17:06] traffic is perception. So, that was a
[2:17:08] very useful piece of information. Um, I
[2:17:11] don't know if you're here earlier, we
[2:17:12] were talking about how we generate
[2:17:14] income as a city through sales tax. Is
[2:17:16] there any sales tax generated from this
[2:17:18] property?
[2:17:19] >> Um there's there's a little bit from you
[2:17:21] know when when people are moving in the
[2:17:23] storage facility they would be using
[2:17:25] boxes and locks and stuff like that. So
[2:17:28] um but it is it is
[2:17:30] >> but we don't have a sales tax on leasing
[2:17:33] space, right?
[2:17:34] >> No, not in the state of Utah.
[2:17:36] >> Okay. Yeah, I didn't think so cuz I
[2:17:38] Yeah, we lease vehicles so I have to
[2:17:40] look up all the state laws anyways and
[2:17:43] Utah is very um yeah, we don't charge a
[2:17:46] lot of sales tax for that stuff.
[2:17:48] >> There's property taxes that will be
[2:17:50] these will be deedowned.
[2:17:52] >> Yes.
[2:17:52] >> Units. So there will be property taxes
[2:17:54] that will benefit majority school
[2:17:56] district but will fall to the city as in
[2:17:58] addition to the self-s storage facility
[2:18:00] also will you know I imagine our
[2:18:02] property taxes there will increase from
[2:18:05] what's
[2:18:06] >> from what yeah what it's currently
[2:18:08] there. Okay. Um and what was the other
[2:18:11] thing I was going to ask you about this?
[2:18:13] Can you hold up your map? Um, just for
[2:18:16] our use because it was so good with the
[2:18:17] circles going out. And now I'll just
[2:18:19] switch gears and talk about the
[2:18:21] ordinance how it's written
[2:18:24] >> the circles that go out. I don't
[2:18:26] remember. It's
[2:18:29] >> zoning
[2:18:29] >> because the first um while she's looking
[2:18:31] for that, it says that we uh an item Oh
[2:18:35] gosh, I lost.
[2:18:36] >> Thank you very much. So are these cons
[2:18:39] are these circles half mile then? I know
[2:18:41] these were resident concerns, but to use
[2:18:43] this as a visual. Okay. Because we had
[2:18:45] it in our um ordinance not to have
[2:18:47] anything within a mile.
[2:18:49] >> So, can you tell me is it the second
[2:18:51] circle out that we would have no other
[2:18:53] units falling outside that circle?
[2:18:55] >> Correct. Yeah.
[2:18:57] >> Um a little history. Um there has been
[2:19:00] proposed other storage units right by
[2:19:02] the Alpine Art Center. It's not. It
[2:19:05] never was. It never made it. It never
[2:19:08] made it out of council or um but so
[2:19:11] because of this ordinance, we would not
[2:19:13] have another one on that space because
[2:19:14] it's within the mile. Is that correct,
[2:19:16] Shane?
[2:19:18] >> Yeah, I think
[2:19:20] >> if I understand this correctly, that
[2:19:23] most outer ring would be one and a half
[2:19:26] miles from the site. Is that
[2:19:28] >> Yeah, the farthest out. So, it's it goes
[2:19:30] a half mile, mile, h mile and a half. So
[2:19:33] the middle the middle one is a mile.
[2:19:35] >> So it had to be outside the middle.
[2:19:37] >> So this is inside the middle. So that
[2:19:40] specific property had they the owner
[2:19:43] >> could not do it.
[2:19:44] >> Yes. They they would be excluded from
[2:19:46] another unit.
[2:19:47] >> That's correct. Is that the one from a
[2:19:48] couple years ago that wanted highdensity
[2:19:50] commercial? That was a different one.
[2:19:52] >> Oh, same property but yeah.
[2:19:53] >> Oh, same property.
[2:19:54] >> The property has been wanting to be
[2:19:56] reszoned to commercial more than one
[2:19:57] time. Okay. For different uses. similar
[2:20:00] to here. They come with a proposal, but
[2:20:03] it requires city council, but nothing's
[2:20:05] ever moved forward on that property. So,
[2:20:07] that would eliminate that because I was
[2:20:10] um
[2:20:12] proposed. So, we don't want to become a
[2:20:14] storage unit um hub, right?
[2:20:17] >> I I would say that I think that covers
[2:20:19] everything in the B the BC zone. So,
[2:20:22] that that alone would
[2:20:23] >> Well, that they were asking to be
[2:20:25] reszoned commercial and that specific
[2:20:27] piece. So, you're right. everything in
[2:20:29] the BC zone, but then people can always
[2:20:31] ask to be reszoned,
[2:20:32] >> right?
[2:20:33] >> Okay, good point.
[2:20:34] >> That was one. Um I I I appreciated E as
[2:20:37] well. You you've mentioned that. What
[2:20:39] was the um understanding of 720 units? I
[2:20:43] didn't understand why we need to put
[2:20:44] that in our ordinance. Was it based on
[2:20:46] massing or how are we coming up with
[2:20:48] that? Any with Ryan with no Ryan? We we
[2:20:51] don't know.
[2:20:51] >> I'm sorry. I can't answer that question.
[2:20:53] Okay.
[2:20:54] >> I'm not sure.
[2:20:55] >> Okay. So the seven and I also
[2:20:58] >> I'm I'm happy to answer it if you'd
[2:20:59] like.
[2:20:59] >> Oh, you knew. Oh, okay. Go ahead. I'm
[2:21:02] sorry.
[2:21:03] >> I'm I'll talk as much as you want me to
[2:21:04] talk to be honest with you. I'll just
[2:21:05] keep But um the building uh when we
[2:21:08] first had went to planning commission,
[2:21:10] the entire building was planned to be
[2:21:11] all self storage. Now, a portion of that
[2:21:14] is going to be for sale, like the very
[2:21:16] far west corner of that. Um but what we
[2:21:19] were taking was um with self- storage
[2:21:22] you going to lose uh corridors and
[2:21:26] elevators and some of those
[2:21:28] penetrations. So you can't rent that but
[2:21:30] you know you'll take that was about I
[2:21:32] think we'd have about 72,000 net
[2:21:34] rentable square feet and so divide that
[2:21:35] by an average unit size of 100. Majority
[2:21:38] of the units will be around a 10 x 10 10
[2:21:41] x 15ish some of them being smaller. So a
[2:21:44] rough number with that. Ryan asked me
[2:21:47] how many units do you think would be uh
[2:21:49] in the self storage facility and so
[2:21:51] that's where we came up with about 720
[2:21:53] will be a little bit less than that um
[2:21:56] now but um yeah
[2:21:59] >> yeah I think I I would want to follow up
[2:22:00] with Ryan I'm not sure why it needs to
[2:22:02] be in the ordinance but u maybe we just
[2:22:05] need a per unit per square foot or
[2:22:06] something I'm not sure it seems way too
[2:22:08] specific to be in the city ordinance but
[2:22:13] >> but we can talk to Ryan about it I won't
[2:22:14] have you speculate Shane kind of a
[2:22:16] density thing I guess but
[2:22:18] >> yeah it is
[2:22:18] >> it seems like a way max number to me for
[2:22:21] that building.
[2:22:22] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[2:22:23] >> Yeah. So yeah I'm sure there was some
[2:22:25] something Ryan can help me understand
[2:22:26] that better. That's okay. Um and the
[2:22:29] last thing was um can you help us
[2:22:31] understand two things when it says on um
[2:22:35] K unit shall not be used for commercial
[2:22:37] vehicle repair. So if people are
[2:22:39] restoring vehicles like it's for their
[2:22:41] own usage, they go to car shows or
[2:22:44] whatever or they're working on their own
[2:22:46] like you know a luxury car or exotic
[2:22:50] car.
[2:22:50] >> So that's okay. But what would qualify
[2:22:53] as commercial versus
[2:22:56] what's what's acceptable and not
[2:22:57] acceptable for car vehicle repair?
[2:22:59] >> If I was a garage and said, "Hey, bring
[2:23:01] your car in and charge me $5,000. I'll
[2:23:03] charge you $5,000 to do the work on your
[2:23:06] car." That's a commercial repair.
[2:23:08] >> Okay.
[2:23:09] >> So, but if I own the unit and I add some
[2:23:11] tools just like I would in my garage and
[2:23:12] I want to tinker on it and make some
[2:23:14] changes and stuff like that, I kind of
[2:23:15] that's where the commercial aspect kind
[2:23:17] of
[2:23:18] >> Okay.
[2:23:18] >> close those out.
[2:23:19] >> Okay, that is good. We do have a a car
[2:23:21] repair in the city and so um
[2:23:24] >> Yeah. Okay.
[2:23:25] >> Yeah.
[2:23:25] >> I just didn't want And then I did want
[2:23:29] to comment to just about on the code
[2:23:31] here. It says all storage shall occur
[2:23:34] entirely within the closed storage
[2:23:36] units. Outdoor storage is prohibited.
[2:23:38] Um, like I said, we are an old city and
[2:23:42] there were two lots in specifically that
[2:23:44] had an unbelievable number of vehicles
[2:23:46] being stored on them and it was against
[2:23:49] our city code, but it needed to be
[2:23:50] enforced and have them all removed. One
[2:23:53] of them is currently like in the process
[2:23:54] of being developed into senior living.
[2:23:57] And another one um was a few years ago.
[2:23:59] I I wasn't on city council, so I don't
[2:24:01] know what that process was, but having
[2:24:04] cars and junk stored out out of sight is
[2:24:09] a huge bonus for the city.
[2:24:12] So, um I I I greatly favor that one
[2:24:16] element right there. Number n, if we
[2:24:18] could enforce that on all residents, I
[2:24:20] can't imagine how some yards could get
[2:24:21] cleaned up. But nevertheless, this is
[2:24:24] not we don't need to do that or we can't
[2:24:26] do that. So, um there was that. And then
[2:24:28] lastly, I was uh very curious. I have
[2:24:31] three people that I know who are very
[2:24:33] much into exotic cars. They were unaware
[2:24:35] of your project, but super excited about
[2:24:37] it. They reached out to a couple people
[2:24:39] in their circle, and there's just been
[2:24:42] just a lot of positive about how, you
[2:24:44] know, um this is needed um and how that
[2:24:50] group of people just is is a very uh
[2:24:53] what do I want to say? They're like we
[2:24:56] talked about about the library, they
[2:24:57] benefit the whole community. They like
[2:25:00] allow people to drive away in their
[2:25:01] fancy cars when they get married or they
[2:25:03] bring their cars to the car shows and
[2:25:05] they're very community-minded people in
[2:25:07] general. So, I was excited to see that
[2:25:09] group of people be excited about this
[2:25:11] project specifically. So, I just wanted
[2:25:13] to share that with the council just um
[2:25:16] and last comment and then we're moving
[2:25:18] on to Mr. um Mr. Andrew. But um in
[2:25:24] reaching out to that group, I didn't ask
[2:25:26] for any solicitation, but the the fact
[2:25:28] that they saw stack on the name then
[2:25:31] they they really were very impressed
[2:25:33] with your prior projects that you've
[2:25:35] been working on. So that gave me more uh
[2:25:37] confidence that what we see is what we
[2:25:40] get and this isn't like a a bait and
[2:25:42] switch. So
[2:25:42] >> Well, thank you.
[2:25:43] >> You have a good reputation and I didn't
[2:25:45] even ask for that insight from the
[2:25:47] person I was speaking with. So I'm done.
[2:25:49] Thanks.
[2:25:50] >> Very kind. Thank you.
[2:25:52] >> That was good. Um, yeah, between uh the
[2:25:56] library and this, we've touched the
[2:25:58] heartstrings of a demographic of women
[2:26:01] and now a demographic of man cave men.
[2:26:04] >> Is that right?
[2:26:05] >> We got them all.
[2:26:06] >> Men like to read.
[2:26:07] >> Yeah, I like books.
[2:26:08] >> Oh, man. You see how many men were here
[2:26:10] for the library?
[2:26:12] >> You know how many men want to put a
[2:26:13] portion?
[2:26:14] >> We're not We're not We're not Mr. Doxy
[2:26:16] is going to be start making derogatory
[2:26:18] comments about gender. Okay,
[2:26:19] >> this is I I don't mean to downplay it.
[2:26:21] This is massively important. This is a
[2:26:23] hundred-year decision. That's why I'm
[2:26:25] weighing it so important.
[2:26:28] >> Uh, as it stands right now, um, it's
[2:26:32] very murky. Okay. Oh, actually, let me
[2:26:35] just back up just a hair because this
[2:26:37] came up four months ago. So, we've been
[2:26:40] doing four months of research and even
[2:26:41] at the very beginning, this was murky
[2:26:43] because we've got storage units and then
[2:26:47] we've got what we're what we're actually
[2:26:49] deciding on which is to change the
[2:26:51] Alpine code. It's not that we're
[2:26:53] approving or disapproving this project.
[2:26:57] We are changing the Alpine commercial
[2:27:00] zoning to be able to allow storage units
[2:27:03] in the business commercial zone. Okay.
[2:27:06] So, it's kind of like a backwards step
[2:27:07] to approving the project. That took me a
[2:27:10] while to uh really capture and but for
[2:27:14] some reason we need to address them both
[2:27:17] because you've got the project, the
[2:27:20] storage units, so the luxury condo
[2:27:22] garages, which would be the byproduct of
[2:27:24] approving this code.
[2:27:27] Uh, okay. Okay. So, so I've I went
[2:27:29] through the code and I'm going to bring
[2:27:30] that up a little bit later, but just in
[2:27:33] short and Chrissy and everyone like even
[2:27:36] if we were to do anything on this, this
[2:27:38] code is riddled with spelling errors,
[2:27:41] number errors, and things that are going
[2:27:44] to take a lot. This has nothing to do
[2:27:46] with you or stack or the storage units,
[2:27:49] just the code. So, we're talking like
[2:27:51] legislators right now. And I didn't
[2:27:53] understand this. When we're making a
[2:27:55] decision to change the code, there is no
[2:27:58] law that is telling us what to do. We
[2:28:02] only really have one Bible, and people
[2:28:05] get off track when they use their own
[2:28:06] opinions. It's the Alpine City Plan.
[2:28:08] This is what's supposed to instruct us
[2:28:10] on what laws to let happen. So, we're
[2:28:12] talking about the law. Um, this is
[2:28:15] legislative. So, we're creating law for
[2:28:18] what we want the identity and the look
[2:28:20] and feel of Alpine to be. You could kind
[2:28:21] of get down to the bottom of this as as
[2:28:24] a lawmaker, do we think Alpine should
[2:28:26] have this? Like that's basically because
[2:28:28] we're making a law to allow it. Does
[2:28:30] this fit in Alpine? That's like kind of
[2:28:32] what the real decision we're making. Um
[2:28:36] anyways, so the the code's just not
[2:28:38] ready. Like I read through it. It
[2:28:40] doesn't even spell luxury, right? It
[2:28:42] doesn't even put the number 13, right?
[2:28:44] It's supposed to be 12. You're saying
[2:28:47] you're going to add stuff to the code
[2:28:48] that's not even there. There's no way. I don't even know how if you were for
[2:28:53] against this you would even vote. And I'm not trying to persuade. I'm just
[2:28:57] saying I don't know how we vote on this
[2:28:59] in its current state. That's code. Let
[2:29:02] me get to the actual opinions and the
[2:29:04] residents and everything is make one
[2:29:05] quick comment. Yes, please. Please.
[2:29:06] >> So there are some typographical errors
[2:29:08] and it's not even numbered correctly. It
[2:29:10] should be it's under the dog.
[2:29:12] >> Right. Right. It's under the dogs. So
[2:29:13] >> that that happens quite often there.
[2:29:15] Yeah. It just it's a typographical error
[2:29:17] that those are all be fixed. It'll be
[2:29:19] reviewed by the attorney
[2:29:21] >> um before
[2:29:22] >> right and it's not just that there's the
[2:29:24] mile thing but I'll get to that in a
[2:29:26] minute but just
[2:29:27] >> and come in an ordinance format. So yeah
[2:29:29] it's
[2:29:30] >> okay
[2:29:30] >> and it's not even a up for a vote
[2:29:33] tonight.
[2:29:33] >> This is discussion only.
[2:29:36] >> on the agenda as a discuss how much
[2:29:38] sleep I've lost. Well, that's the new
[2:29:40] that's this new
[2:29:41] >> I would have had a better night just
[2:29:42] thinking this was discussion.
[2:29:43] >> That's new procedure that we talked
[2:29:45] about at the beginning of the meeting.
[2:29:46] >> Yeah. Bring up bring up your question.
[2:29:48] >> I apologize as I was trying to focus on
[2:29:50] the code and the residence. I missed the
[2:29:52] word discussion.
[2:29:53] >> You're totally fine. No problem.
[2:29:54] >> Okay. Well, I try to take it serious
[2:29:55] when we're making a decision that our
[2:29:57] great grandchildren are have going to
[2:29:58] get the consequence of. Um, so anyways,
[2:30:01] I I'll finish up and then it's up to you
[2:30:02] guys. Okay. Uh, thank you for that
[2:30:04] clarification and the those uh spelling
[2:30:06] and errors and things like that that we
[2:30:09] could help with. Um,
[2:30:12] okay. Uh,
[2:30:16] I would like to talk about two things if
[2:30:18] that's okay. Y
[2:30:20] >> and I think they would be helpful and I
[2:30:21] sounds like you're getting some of it as
[2:30:24] I always do. I do the same formula. Does
[2:30:26] this fit the identity of Alpine? Does
[2:30:28] this have um the consent of the
[2:30:31] governed? I don't choose everyone. And I
[2:30:32] choose the people who live and are most
[2:30:34] negatively impacted because as you saw
[2:30:35] with those circles, they feel very
[2:30:37] different about an issue. And I can
[2:30:39] almost get a yes to anything. If I go to
[2:30:41] someone 50 miles away from something and
[2:30:43] hey, do you guys want that jail in that
[2:30:44] city over there? They're going to I
[2:30:46] don't care. So I go to the people right
[2:30:47] next to it and they are the ones who
[2:30:49] protect their neighborhood the best. Um
[2:30:52] I went to two neighborhoods, okay?
[2:30:54] Obviously the neighborhood surrounding
[2:30:57] this project and then I went to other
[2:31:00] neighborhoods. Well, because they're
[2:31:01] right next to each other that already
[2:31:02] have these in place. Um, so maybe Heidi,
[2:31:05] would you mind bringing up a couple of
[2:31:07] the images? Because I didn't know what I
[2:31:09] was going to hear. And when I go to
[2:31:10] people, I do not frame things and I do
[2:31:13] not persuade them. I ask them, "Hey,
[2:31:15] this is being proposed. How do you feel
[2:31:17] about it?"
[2:31:21] » Oh, sorry. If you press the little box
[2:31:22] thing up in the top right, it'll show
[2:31:24] the image. But you can look at any of
[2:31:25] them. You can look at any of them.
[2:31:28] So, this is this is where I went and I
[2:31:30] tried to find um
[2:31:35] a similar situation and I wanted to see
[2:31:37] how it was in practice. Okay, you can go
[2:31:39] to the other ones. Um and oh yeah,
[2:31:42] that's fine. One of those you can go
[2:31:44] back or whatever. You can pause. I I
[2:31:47] don't know if it's playing like a loop.
[2:31:48] Wow, that was good.
[2:31:51] >> You can just leave it there. That's all.
[2:31:53] >> That's fine. You can kind of see them
[2:31:54] all. So, there's there's two. There's a
[2:31:56] storage unit just like this and then
[2:31:59] there's one that's actually just just like this. I don't know if you guys
[2:32:02] did it in Bluffdale that looks exactly
[2:32:04] the same. I don't know if it's someone
[2:32:05] else and
[2:32:07] >> someone else.
[2:32:07] >> Okay. And there people are renting them.
[2:32:09] They buy them and then they rent them.
[2:32:10] So I guess the algorithm got me and they
[2:32:12] started asking me if I wanted to rent
[2:32:13] them.
[2:32:13] >> Okay.
[2:32:14] >> The I didn't know you could.
[2:32:15] >> This one's in Bluffale. The one that you
[2:32:17] show me. That one they also uh the
[2:32:20] difference I guess between the two is we
[2:32:22] were not allowing businesses to operate
[2:32:24] out of them where this one does.
[2:32:26] So, I was looking through and my goal
[2:32:28] was to find out because I actually know
[2:32:31] the people who own this and I've talked
[2:32:34] deeply with them. I've visited with them
[2:32:36] and I understand the struggle on their
[2:32:38] end of being caught up in a situation
[2:32:41] that has gone on for a very long time.
[2:32:43] But then I wanted to hear from the
[2:32:44] residents and I shared and he actually
[2:32:46] appreciated what I was trying to do by
[2:32:48] going and visiting the residents. He
[2:32:50] actually said thank you because a lot of
[2:32:52] the things he didn't know. Anyways, the
[2:32:53] residents in Alpine and the residents of
[2:32:55] Bluffell have brought up some deep
[2:32:57] concerns that aren't addressed in any of
[2:32:59] this code. Um, they're just not
[2:33:01] addressed. So, would you like me to send
[2:33:04] those to him or would you like me to
[2:33:06] bring those concerns up?
[2:33:09] >> Okay.
[2:33:16] » Yeah, that's okay.
[2:33:18] So, um,
[2:33:20] like, okay, here we go. Let's bring them
[2:33:23] up.
[2:33:26] Uh, let's see. Under any condition,
[2:33:28] storage units are not considered a
[2:33:30] transitional or light intensity use.
[2:33:33] They should not be placed in locations
[2:33:35] that are adjacent to lighter intensity
[2:33:37] uses, such as a single family
[2:33:40] residential.
[2:33:42] Um, we're creating a plan. It says,
[2:33:45] "However, that plan does not contemplate
[2:33:47] the land north of City Hall. So, we're
[2:33:48] doing a plan right now for our gateways.
[2:33:53] It doesn't include any of this area, and
[2:33:55] yet we're about to make a decision that
[2:33:58] we have no plan for." So, this will
[2:34:00] essentially dictate the plan. And so,
[2:34:02] this resident is bringing up, why aren't
[2:34:04] you creating a plan before you're
[2:34:05] putting in big infrastructure into the
[2:34:08] uh into um this area? And he recommends
[2:34:13] waiting. is brilliant guy resident. I I
[2:34:16] can't even believe how brilliant he he
[2:34:17] recommends waiting to do a plan before
[2:34:19] you would do something like this. Um
[2:34:24] uh let's see the long connected building
[2:34:27] feels very heavy against the roadway. I
[2:34:30] experienced this when I went to Bluff
[2:34:32] and talked to residents and walked by
[2:34:35] them and lived by them sort of for a day
[2:34:37] with my family in the car like what are
[2:34:39] you doing? Shh. I'm I'm looking at
[2:34:41] storage communities.
[2:34:44] They think I'm nuts. Okay, so anyways,
[2:34:46] um
[2:34:49] it it's it's it's
[2:34:52] I don't it's borderline like being next
[2:34:54] to a jail or like a Holocaust camp or
[2:34:56] something. Sorry, I don't know how to
[2:34:58] say it. You don't I I I don't mean
[2:35:00] Holocaust. I mean Sorry. I I I'm not
[2:35:03] trying to be I'm not like basically my
[2:35:04] goal is to get you to try to compromise
[2:35:06] and then they have to be okay with it
[2:35:08] where they live. But but it it's big
[2:35:11] brick brrawy walls. It is not everyone
[2:35:15] when they run they all say we want to
[2:35:17] keep Alpar in Alpine. We want to you
[2:35:18] know preserve Alpine. I want to keep the
[2:35:20] but then they never do it. This is not
[2:35:22] it. And he's bringing it up that this
[2:35:24] like when I walked through there I am
[2:35:25] not in Alpine on this wall. I am not
[2:35:28] even in Bluff. I'm in I'm in
[2:35:32] I have no idea west west Salt Lake um or
[2:35:35] West Pro. Anyways, that's that was that
[2:35:38] was this resident as proposed.
[2:35:39] >> Can you pull up that facade? Do you have
[2:35:41] a picture of that? That'd be awesome
[2:35:42] just to look.
[2:35:43] >> Well, there's several. You can pick up
[2:35:44] pull up any of them.
[2:35:45] >> But um third or fourth one,
[2:35:47] >> but and yeah, and that leads to the
[2:35:49] other thing. I don't know how because
[2:35:51] I'm I'm jocking back and forth between
[2:35:53] the code we're possibly changing
[2:35:55] >> right there. So, it's on the left.
[2:35:57] >> Okay. I'm jocking back and forth between
[2:35:59] the code we're looking at potentially
[2:36:00] changing and the proposed
[2:36:03] storage unit facility. Okay. And I'm
[2:36:05] going to get to the specific residence,
[2:36:07] then finally the Bluffell ones, and then
[2:36:08] I'll be done, so I I won't take too much
[2:36:10] longer. Um
[2:36:13] the the um now I've lost my train of
[2:36:16] thought, but either way, yes, walking in
[2:36:18] there, it is not the nature of Alpine.
[2:36:21] It does not feel And then I talked to
[2:36:23] the residents. How is it living by it?
[2:36:25] How is it being by this? And they gave a
[2:36:28] lot of feedback. I'll explain um very
[2:36:31] shortly. But as proposed, the code
[2:36:32] change would allow storage units on any
[2:36:34] commercialized zone property in the
[2:36:36] city. Which which is weird because in
[2:36:38] our code, we're saying let's just make a
[2:36:40] limit of every mile, right? We're just
[2:36:42] saying every mile. Why even put that in
[2:36:45] if we're going to try to block it from
[2:36:46] any other location? Why not just say
[2:36:49] it's only in one location? Why like open
[2:36:51] the doors for someone to uh and it's
[2:36:53] only against Main Street? Does that
[2:36:55] include um Alpine Highway? Like I I just
[2:36:58] it doesn't make sense why we're even
[2:37:00] putting that in. So that's not a
[2:37:01] grammatical or a or a number error. That
[2:37:04] is an error in uh we haven't thought it
[2:37:07] through. Just like the 720 number, no
[2:37:08] one has thought that through and knows
[2:37:10] what 720 looks like versus 400. So
[2:37:13] anyways, as proposed, the city change
[2:37:14] would allow storage units on any
[2:37:16] commercialized zone property in the
[2:37:17] city. This with those small
[2:37:19] restrictions, this would allow storage
[2:37:20] units on the balance of the under
[2:37:23] undeveloped portions of Alpine City uh
[2:37:25] art center property. As such, the
[2:37:28] effects of this code change could have a
[2:37:29] far greater impact on the community than
[2:37:31] just the purple building location. In
[2:37:33] your land used authority role, you make
[2:37:35] decisions that will substantially
[2:37:36] outlive each of you. This is like that
[2:37:38] should be ingrained in cement or on a
[2:37:41] rock in our in our um in our uh hall
[2:37:44] here. This is not a transitional area. A
[2:37:46] specific proposal should not be the
[2:37:48] reason to make a decision because while
[2:37:50] some businesses succeed, others fail.
[2:37:52] This was my number one. I was the only
[2:37:53] resident at the planning commission.
[2:37:55] Like that that resident input that was
[2:37:57] me. You know how I said it doesn't match
[2:37:59] the Alpine identity? If you're close,
[2:38:02] you'll figure out who that was. I was
[2:38:03] the only resident and I didn't know it
[2:38:05] was coming up. And why would we be
[2:38:07] making code off of one
[2:38:11] project? That that seems so backwards.
[2:38:13] We should be making a universal code. So
[2:38:15] I think that the whole the whole path is
[2:38:17] flawed. Um that's one resident. There
[2:38:21] are 36 others. There were 64 and they
[2:38:24] all hit me up in the last day or two and
[2:38:26] most of their emails were copies of each
[2:38:28] other, meaning someone is telling them.
[2:38:30] These were individualized people. I had
[2:38:33] every business located next to this
[2:38:35] reach out pleading not to do it. The two
[2:38:38] on both sides, the one across the two on
[2:38:40] across the street and the one kitty
[2:38:41] corner. So, every business leader
[2:38:43] reached out. Um, dozens and dozens and
[2:38:46] dozens of residents reached out. I think
[2:38:49] you know where I'm getting. I cannot
[2:38:51] support this just like I told you when
[2:38:53] there are reasonable alternatives that
[2:38:56] will still pencil moneywise. Okay, we
[2:38:59] have a re Hold on. We have reasonable
[2:39:01] alternatives on the list that are
[2:39:03] permitted use does fit the identity of
[2:39:05] Alpine and does meet the positive impact
[2:39:10] of residents. I'm not talking about
[2:39:11] parks. I'm not talking about community
[2:39:13] centers. I'm not talking about
[2:39:14] nonprofits. I'm talking about profitable
[2:39:17] endeavors. And I've done the numbers on
[2:39:18] some and they do work. And I brought
[2:39:20] these up with the owner and they do
[2:39:22] work. And so that's where I'm missing
[2:39:24] the flexibility.
[2:39:25] >> Do you have a list of those? Because
[2:39:26] that would be helpful for us took a lot
[2:39:28] of work to do. I had to do numbers. I
[2:39:29] had to walk cemeteries. I had to walk
[2:39:31] housing lots. I had to see how many
[2:39:33] could fit. I had to use AI to figure out
[2:39:35] does this pencil I got up to $21
[2:39:36] million. So there is a way to make this
[2:39:39] profitable with permitted uses. And I
[2:39:42] have not received flexibility. I met
[2:39:44] with you guys in person and I didn't
[2:39:46] receive any flexibility of any other
[2:39:47] capacity that we could do that would
[2:39:49] uplift that area of alpine. I received
[2:39:51] basically a brick wall just like this
[2:39:53] one. No, this is what we do. This is all
[2:39:55] we do. So anyways,
[2:39:58] there's 36 more residents. I will
[2:40:01] respond to them. ones that live right
[2:40:02] next to it, ones that live all around.
[2:40:04] Concerned about everything from safety
[2:40:06] that like they're worried about how
[2:40:09] dense the hallways are, like meaning how
[2:40:11] this wall, you can't see anything that
[2:40:13] goes on back there. And this is the
[2:40:14] residence right next to it. They're
[2:40:15] worried about safety. They're worried
[2:40:16] about fire concerns. They're worried
[2:40:18] about you guys getting approved for this
[2:40:21] and then selling it to someone else that
[2:40:23] we don't know. But then the whole
[2:40:24] ordinance has basically opened the door
[2:40:27] and we are left with someone else. if
[2:40:30] you guys sell the project. Um, lastly,
[2:40:34] the residents from where this actually
[2:40:37] exists, and I sent that to you. I hope
[2:40:38] it was helpful. I did not know any of
[2:40:41] the concerns. Much of their concerns
[2:40:44] were, oh, and I'm sorry, I'll bring
[2:40:46] these up because these are questions.
[2:40:47] What should residents expect in terms of
[2:40:49] duration, noise, impact in the
[2:40:50] construction process? What measures will
[2:40:52] be in place to prevent excessive noise
[2:40:53] or disruptive activity? You've answered
[2:40:55] some of that. What hours will the
[2:40:56] storage units be units and garages be
[2:40:58] accessible? Will there be landscaping
[2:41:00] such as to? These are residents who
[2:41:02] specifically asked to ask. The
[2:41:03] renderings appear somewhat industrial in
[2:41:05] appearance. Is there an opportunity for
[2:41:06] improved design input including more
[2:41:08] thoughtful paint colors and additional
[2:41:09] landscapings to soften the look? Okay.
[2:41:11] Anyways, the ones that are most helpful
[2:41:13] the ones that are living there. So, I
[2:41:15] started knocking doors and asking them,
[2:41:17] uh, how is this to live by? And it went
[2:41:20] from, well, it's not the prettiest
[2:41:22] thing, and we're just glad it's not a
[2:41:23] super high-rise apartment building. And
[2:41:26] I'm like, man, we are so blessed that
[2:41:28] that's how they think. And and and it
[2:41:30] went all the way to I knocked on a door
[2:41:33] and he's like, it was a wife and she
[2:41:35] said, come in. My husband's on the
[2:41:36] planning commission of Bluell. And I was
[2:41:40] great. This guy knows the city lingo.
[2:41:42] First question he asked me, this is the
[2:41:44] first question he asked me. He didn't
[2:41:46] ask. He said, "Wait, you guys are doing
[2:41:48] storage units?" I said, "Well, it's
[2:41:50] being proposed. What do you think?"
[2:41:51] Because I don't want to I don't want to
[2:41:53] make him biased. Um, and he said, "Hold
[2:41:56] on. You're not changing your ordinance,
[2:41:58] right?" And I was like, "Well, yes, that
[2:42:01] is exactly what the proposal is." He
[2:42:03] said, "Okay, we did this and now we're
[2:42:05] trying to walk it all back because
[2:42:07] there's dozens of these coming in." Now,
[2:42:09] when he says dozens, they they
[2:42:10] compartmentalize and fragment. As you
[2:42:11] can see, these are two of them. Uh,
[2:42:13] these are two separate ones here in
[2:42:14] Bluffell. He says, "We're trying to walk
[2:42:16] it back, and we can't walk it back. we
[2:42:19] can't do anything about it because it's
[2:42:20] now it's open rain and we're trying now
[2:42:23] desperately to walk this back to gain
[2:42:25] some sort of control. I think a lot of
[2:42:26] cities are in this situation where
[2:42:28] they've lost control of their city. Um
[2:42:31] their next feedback was
[2:42:34] they never build enough parking and
[2:42:36] U-Hauls, which is interesting. You were
[2:42:38] talking about U-Hauls. U-Hauls are
[2:42:40] constantly there. The trucks dropping
[2:42:42] things off, leaving things. And I
[2:42:44] noticed from your design, it's very
[2:42:46] similar. there's not a lot of space for
[2:42:47] U-Hauls to get in there and like
[2:42:50] navigate and if there's three or four or
[2:42:52] two at the same time, there's no place
[2:42:54] for them to unload. So, what happens is
[2:42:55] it just ends up going on the street and
[2:42:57] it's there for many many days. So, they
[2:42:58] brought up the parking is not people
[2:43:00] using it. The parking is when people are
[2:43:02] loading and unloading. It becomes this
[2:43:04] constant transient thing. I don't even
[2:43:06] know how you load a portion there. Um,
[2:43:08] but and then they brought up uh several
[2:43:10] others that I can send to you. Um, which
[2:43:14] were uh very much in the realm of I'm
[2:43:17] trying to pull them up so I read them
[2:43:19] identically or or read them exactly.
[2:43:23] Um, but they were very much I have four
[2:43:26] months of notes. I'm sorry. They're very
[2:43:28] much in the realm of the sirens go off
[2:43:30] and no one knows who's to who to call
[2:43:32] because they have to be highly secure.
[2:43:34] That's why they kind of look like a
[2:43:35] jail. Um, and I don't mean that
[2:43:37] demeaningly. I just mean you don't walk
[2:43:39] around cities where things are so high
[2:43:41] and so beefy. Um, so they say the sirens
[2:43:45] go off, no one's there. They rent them
[2:43:47] out to other people. People use them as
[2:43:50] a segway to live in or to do basically
[2:43:53] high high density commercial housing. So those those are what I gained from
[2:43:58] them. The people who were for it were
[2:44:02] about six guys all about our age. And I
[2:44:05] know we're all have this thing wired in
[2:44:07] us to make a man cave and fill it full
[2:44:09] of all of our toys. I get it. I have
[2:44:10] that chip as well. But we're also have a
[2:44:13] chip to preserve a community, preserve
[2:44:15] America, preserve Alpine. And we're
[2:44:17] losing it. We're losing it. And this, I
[2:44:19] know, is hard to find that connection.
[2:44:22] But this is a piece of how we lose it
[2:44:24] because if you go to the communities
[2:44:25] that have these, they next put in
[2:44:27] highdensity housing, highdensity
[2:44:29] apartments. They lose their rural feel.
[2:44:31] They become very transient. This is
[2:44:34] basically a piece of the highdensity
[2:44:36] puzzle where people don't have enough
[2:44:37] storage at their home so they store
[2:44:39] everything in these units and it goes to
[2:44:41] this low ownership type of deep
[2:44:44] philosoph uh I'm going more deeper in
[2:44:46] this way of life that people are fleeing
[2:44:49] from in Arizona, Nevada, California and
[2:44:53] other parts of Utah. And so, you know,
[2:44:56] my personal opinion, well, this is what
[2:44:58] I would hope. This is the path forward.
[2:45:01] I I I see no for me. I see no path with
[2:45:05] this current code to approve it without
[2:45:08] drastic and I know we're not approving
[2:45:10] it without drastic fixes. So, we would
[2:45:12] have to work very much with the
[2:45:15] residents to make sure they're okay with
[2:45:16] it. Are you guys okay living with this
[2:45:19] code for the next hundred years of your
[2:45:21] life? That's who we need to get okay on.
[2:45:24] Okay. Um and then I think you might be
[2:45:28] able to get a compromise with them if
[2:45:30] you take out that big wall in the front,
[2:45:32] push it back because that is just so in
[2:45:34] everyone's face. It blocks mountains. It
[2:45:37] blocks everything. I mean, you're you're
[2:45:39] now in
[2:45:41] Chicago like like that. You got a church
[2:45:43] on one side alpine, you got a Chicago on
[2:45:45] the other side. You're like, what's
[2:45:46] going on? Um, and so I think if you can
[2:45:50] compromise with them, I think if you can
[2:45:51] get the residence and I looked him in
[2:45:54] the face and I sat down with him and I
[2:45:56] saw his pain, the owner, okay, I know
[2:46:00] what he's going through and having him
[2:46:03] on one side and the threats and then
[2:46:05] having uh, which who I deeply respect
[2:46:07] and love. I love the guy and my whole
[2:46:09] family. I love him. And then having the
[2:46:11] residents in Alpine on the other side is
[2:46:12] a terrible situation. And I know the
[2:46:16] consequences of this going one way or
[2:46:18] another. I've been very much told what
[2:46:20] happens based on my decision and their
[2:46:22] decision, the consequences on both
[2:46:24] sides, which are very heavy. Um, and so
[2:46:28] I am hoping, praying, pleading that you
[2:46:30] will work with the residents, change
[2:46:32] this to be something that they're okay
[2:46:33] with. I think you're
[2:46:37] 25% of the way there. If you can get 75,
[2:46:42] if you can address their concerns, which
[2:46:44] will cause you some pain and remove a
[2:46:47] lot of the bulk and massing that you
[2:46:50] have, a lot of the quantity that you
[2:46:51] have, you could reach, I think, an
[2:46:54] agreement with them. But until that, I
[2:46:56] can't ever support something like this,
[2:46:57] which is what I told you from the
[2:46:58] beginning. Thank you for your time.
[2:47:00] >> Okay, Brent.
[2:47:02] >> Thank you.
[2:47:03] Did you have any responses to anything
[2:47:05] that he said or would you like to just
[2:47:06] move on? See if
[2:47:08] >> we can keep moving. I mean, Ryan Ryan, I
[2:47:10] think if you want to jump on and explain
[2:47:11] some of the code thing, I think might be
[2:47:14] helpful if you want to jump on, but if
[2:47:16] not, we can keep moving.
[2:47:22] » Rain, are you muted or is he off again?
[2:47:34] Oh, it says the audio is off down there.
[2:47:35] Can you see on the Zoom?
[2:47:42] » Oh, okay.
[2:47:43] >> He might not be able to comment.
[2:47:45] >> And if he's if he's listening, the code
[2:47:48] specifics are the grammatical sparing,
[2:47:51] but also it's H. It's this.
[2:47:54] >> Oh, good. There you go.
[2:47:58] All right.
[2:48:04] It says he's on mute.
[2:48:05] >> He's on mute now.
[2:48:07] >> Oh, he wasn't before.
[2:48:12] » Speaker.
[2:48:13] >> Okay. Can you guys hear me now?
[2:48:15] >> Is that on speaker?
[2:48:16] >> Yeah.
[2:48:17] >> Turn this way.
[2:48:18] >> Hold on. Let me turn him up. Okay. Now
[2:48:21] talk.
[2:48:23] Can you talk,
[2:48:27] Ryan?
[2:48:29] He unmuted on Zoom.
[2:48:34] » All right.
[2:48:34] >> Can you guys hear me on Zoom?
[2:48:36] >> Is he on Zoom, too?
[2:48:37] >> No.
[2:48:39] >> Okay.
[2:48:39] >> It says I'm unmuted on my end anyway.
[2:48:42] >> Okay. Well, you just talk through my
[2:48:43] phone. That's fine.
[2:48:46] » Go.
[2:48:50] » Are you talking to me?
[2:48:51] >> Yes, we'll talk.
[2:48:53] >> No. No. Sorry.
[2:48:56] That's going to get annoying.
[2:48:58] I can hear my feedback. Um,
[2:49:01] no, I I just I didn't know if anyone had
[2:49:03] any questions. I'm happy to jump in and help with those. I will say I only I
[2:49:08] only heard bits and pieces of that. I'm
[2:49:10] just driving back from from Enoch. But,
[2:49:13] um, I only heard bits and pieces of
[2:49:15] that, but I I will say we did have
[2:49:18] several proposals come before these guys
[2:49:22] came in. Um, and they were all pretty
[2:49:26] impactful, high density,
[2:49:29] you know, multi- Anyway, they there was a lot of those that came in.
[2:49:34] At the end of the day, I think they met
[2:49:35] with a lot of the a lot of the former
[2:49:37] council and it was kind of like, well,
[2:49:38] we're not we're not comfortable moving
[2:49:40] that far yet or doing one of things like
[2:49:42] that. So, this is one that we got that
[2:49:45] could use the existing building. They
[2:49:47] didn't have to tear it down. Um, and
[2:49:50] yeah, so that that's kind of how we we
[2:49:52] got to where we are with this one. We
[2:49:55] did write it, so we took what they
[2:49:57] needed in there to make it work and then
[2:50:01] we tried to write it. So it was um like to protect or to safeguard some of
[2:50:07] the things that we we had concerns with storage units. Um, so that that's
[2:50:13] kind of how we got to where we are. It
[2:50:15] was that's that's really the only piece
[2:50:18] in Alpine that storage units like this
[2:50:20] would would really work. So that's why
[2:50:23] it's written the way that it is to kind
[2:50:25] of limit and this isn't the first time
[2:50:27] that Alpine or cities have have done
[2:50:30] things like that that hey this would
[2:50:31] work here but maybe not anywhere else.
[2:50:34] Um but yeah, sorry I'm rambling. Are
[2:50:37] there any questions or anything that I
[2:50:39] can help with on this? No, I mean I feel
[2:50:42] I appreciate the effort that you made
[2:50:44] because yeah, with all the restrictions
[2:50:46] that are put on the ordinance. I I agree
[2:50:49] with you with the lot size having to be
[2:50:52] at least three acres, maximum of five.
[2:50:55] Um, and then that you can't have one
[2:50:57] within a mile of an existing one. Um,
[2:51:00] with that being said, even though you've
[2:51:02] taken careful consideration, I do like
[2:51:04] Andy's idea of it not being um, a
[2:51:10] condition of use, but maybe an overlay.
[2:51:12] But in either one of those though, you
[2:51:14] still need to have you still need to
[2:51:15] come front of um, city council or
[2:51:17] planning commission to be able to get
[2:51:19] that granted. So, it's not just an
[2:51:22] automatic
[2:51:23] approval. Just because this passes, it's
[2:51:26] not an automatic approval. I do
[2:51:28] appreciate um you know what? I'm gonna
[2:51:31] go ahead and allow
[2:51:33] >> Yeah.
[2:51:33] >> Um Brent to go ahead and speak and we'll
[2:51:36] wait for Jess. Well, if Jessica's not
[2:51:38] back, we'll go on to Sarah. Go ahead,
[2:51:40] Brent.
[2:51:41] >> Yeah. I had the same comment, Mayor
[2:51:43] Andy. I appreciate your input and they they looked at it at the planning
[2:51:47] commission as well, and it's um I really
[2:51:49] appreciate that one. Your last concern
[2:51:51] was specific plan being considered
[2:51:54] versus code change approval only. But
[2:51:56] because this has to go through the
[2:51:58] conditional use permit, my understanding
[2:52:00] is that this isn't the endgame. If we
[2:52:03] change the ordinance, it doesn't mean
[2:52:04] they can change their architectural
[2:52:06] concept and and just pull one over on
[2:52:10] us. They they're still going to have to
[2:52:11] go through the conditional use
[2:52:13] permitting process and get plans
[2:52:15] approved that that address the gateway
[2:52:17] standards. They have to meet the height
[2:52:20] requirements, setbacks, everything else.
[2:52:22] So, is that correct, Steve?
[2:52:27] » Yes. I guess one thing I should point
[2:52:30] out is if you decide to approve a text
[2:52:34] amendment, that is a legislative
[2:52:37] decision.
[2:52:39] Once a legislative decision has has
[2:52:41] permitted this as a conditional use,
[2:52:44] then we're moving into the
[2:52:45] administrative decision arena. So even
[2:52:48] though it comes to the city council, the
[2:52:50] city council can't act as a legislative
[2:52:53] body and saying we don't like what
[2:52:55] you're doing here. All you can do is act
[2:52:59] as an administrative body and saying
[2:53:02] this is basically a permitted use, but
[2:53:04] we are going to impose conditions that
[2:53:08] mitigate the reasonably anticipated
[2:53:10] detrimental effects of the use. So it's
[2:53:13] not you got way more discretion on a
[2:53:16] text amendment than you would on a
[2:53:18] conditional use permit.
[2:53:19] >> So if there's something that we really
[2:53:20] want to see, we need to put it in the
[2:53:23] ordinance. Correct. Text amendment. So
[2:53:25] for example, meeting the Gateway
[2:53:27] Historic standards, which I think is
[2:53:29] already in there. That's probably the
[2:53:31] biggest concern that I've heard from
[2:53:32] residents is does it meet the feel of
[2:53:34] Alpine? And that's in there. So,
[2:53:36] anything else that we would identify
[2:53:38] that we absolutely want to have in there
[2:53:40] that
[2:53:42] this is the time to put that in, which
[2:53:43] is to Andrew's point.
[2:53:44] >> Well, I think I'd like clarification on
[2:53:47] that because this is outside the
[2:53:48] gateway. The gateway only goes to 200
[2:53:51] North.
[2:53:51] >> It's in the gateway.
[2:53:55] >> Ryan, is it in the gateway or out of the
[2:53:56] gateway?
[2:53:57] >> It says it in the ordinance, right?
[2:54:01] >> So, are you turned up, Shane? Are you
[2:54:03] turned up?
[2:54:05] because he can talk through.
[2:54:06] >> Does business commercial define the
[2:54:07] whole gateway?
[2:54:09] >> It's red.
[2:54:10] >> So I think
[2:54:12] >> I think it's
[2:54:13] >> Yeah, Ryan talk now. See if there can
[2:54:16] you clarify there. He is
[2:54:17] >> for some reason I thought it was south
[2:54:18] of He's talking.
[2:54:20] >> So anything in the business commercial
[2:54:21] zone is in the gateway historic
[2:54:25] standards would
[2:54:26] >> Oh everything
[2:54:28] >> in the bright red. Sorry, I can someone
[2:54:31] repeat what he said so I can hear.
[2:54:33] Everything in everything in the business
[2:54:35] commercial zone are you?
[2:54:38] >> Oh, he said everything in the business
[2:54:40] commercial zone is in the historic
[2:54:42] gateway,
[2:54:43] >> but this is mixeduse zone.
[2:54:45] >> It's business commercial. Currently, it
[2:54:47] is a business commercial zone which is
[2:54:50] designated by the color red. I
[2:54:51] >> mean, I thought it was I thought it was
[2:54:53] I thought the ordinance was pretty
[2:54:55] thorough um with the acreage law size I
[2:54:59] think one of the biggest concerns
[2:55:00] residents brought forth to me was
[2:55:03] initially based on a Facebook post that
[2:55:05] said, "Hey, the city's about to consider
[2:55:07] storage sheds. We don't want storage
[2:55:09] facilities in Alpine." And I reached out
[2:55:11] to every single one of those and just
[2:55:13] said, "Hey, you can talk to Stack, but
[2:55:15] they've talked to some of they've talked
[2:55:16] to the council members. Here is what the
[2:55:19] proposal is and why it's different than
[2:55:21] what you normally see along the freeway
[2:55:23] with orange garage doors and barbed wire
[2:55:27] chain link fences and and big neon
[2:55:29] signs. So that was
[2:55:32] much different than what they expected
[2:55:34] when I when I when I responded to them.
[2:55:37] And then also kind of explaining the
[2:55:38] zoning. A lot of times residents don't
[2:55:40] understand zoning concepts. Um
[2:55:44] >> so trying to explain that to them as
[2:55:45] well. to answer that question.
[2:55:47] >> But anyway, um here are a couple of my
[2:55:49] questions for you while you're here.
[2:55:51] >> Yeah.
[2:55:52] >> So, the customer parking was brought up
[2:55:54] as as a concern. Um I noticed and I
[2:55:56] listened to the planning commission
[2:55:58] discussion about having ample parking.
[2:56:00] It looks to me like other than your
[2:56:02] community center on the outside with
[2:56:04] those diagonal lots for people that
[2:56:07] might stop there to do whatever, most of
[2:56:10] the parking for accessing the storage
[2:56:12] units would be internal to the building.
[2:56:15] Yeah. So up on the if we I mean um if
[2:56:18] you go into the cemetery road you enter
[2:56:20] in the property kind of where that area
[2:56:22] is just to the north of the
[2:56:24] >> um
[2:56:26] >> to like them zip
[2:56:27] >> uh backwards. Sorry
[2:56:30] >> up.
[2:56:30] >> Yep. Right there. One more right there.
[2:56:33] >> Okay.
[2:56:33] >> Back back one. Sorry.
[2:56:35] >> That one.
[2:56:36] >> Thank you. Yeah. So if you look at the next to the big brown portion that's
[2:56:40] the self- storage facility. to the right
[2:56:42] of that. That's where the parking is.
[2:56:44] There's going to be about 10 stalls
[2:56:46] right there. That would be where loading
[2:56:47] is as well. Um and and so there's a
[2:56:51] facility that's similar to this. It's
[2:56:53] about a little over three miles away
[2:56:55] from here. That's um I'd say it's
[2:56:59] >> on Cedar Hills.
[2:57:00] >> Yeah. In Cedar Hills. We're about we're
[2:57:02] about twothirds the size of that one.
[2:57:04] has four parking stalls. It's a
[2:57:07] it's you know, so it's 120,000 building.
[2:57:09] Really big. And they don't have any
[2:57:10] parking issues. And the reason why and
[2:57:13] when we build these kind of all over the
[2:57:14] country and limit parking the only time
[2:57:16] we build more parking is when an
[2:57:18] ordinance requires it and it's you know
[2:57:20] we have the ability to do it and we so
[2:57:22] we put a couple you know more in than we
[2:57:24] need. We we're just such a low traffic
[2:57:26] generator that that we don't need the
[2:57:28] parking stalls. We we have enough
[2:57:30] loading room right there kind of out in
[2:57:32] that area. There are I I want to say 8
[2:57:36] to 10 stalls right there. One of them
[2:57:38] will need to be uh ADA accessible. also
[2:57:40] a handicap stall. And so that would um
[2:57:43] but yeah, we we're good on we're good on
[2:57:46] parking for the self- storage portion of
[2:57:48] that. Now, to access the the keep the garage units, you go through a gate.
[2:57:53] There'd be a gate between that to
[2:57:55] between that larger unit that says 2,700
[2:57:58] feet to the corner right there. Yeah.
[2:58:00] Right where your mouse is. There'd be a
[2:58:02] gate through there. You enter through
[2:58:03] that. That's a 50 foot wide uh area
[2:58:06] right there. Just larger than the street
[2:58:09] out front. you know, it's a w a wide
[2:58:11] access there. And then for parking, you
[2:58:13] can park in front of your unit. Likely
[2:58:15] they'd pull inside their unit or just be
[2:58:17] right outside their unit. There's plenty
[2:58:18] of room there for for parking. So, um
[2:58:22] you know, for for us to operate
[2:58:24] efficiently based on our experience in
[2:58:26] developing self storage, the parking
[2:58:27] that we have is sufficient.
[2:58:29] >> So, the only entrance to the self-
[2:58:30] storage portion would be on that east
[2:58:32] side.
[2:58:33] >> Correct. So, if if there was any kind of
[2:58:36] overflow traffic, if there happened to
[2:58:38] be 15 U-Hauls there one Saturday morning
[2:58:40] at the same time, which probably isn't
[2:58:42] very likely,
[2:58:43] >> right?
[2:58:43] >> Um the likelihood of them going out to
[2:58:46] 200 North and having to
[2:58:48] >> truck their their stuff all the way in
[2:58:50] is fairly remote, I would think.
[2:58:53] >> So, there will be a gate access gate
[2:58:54] right there where the cursor is and also
[2:58:56] on 200 North.
[2:58:57] >> Correct.
[2:58:58] >> The only people with access to that
[2:59:00] would be for the for the
[2:59:02] >> owners of those units. Yeah, correct.
[2:59:05] >> Um, one of the residents asked about
[2:59:07] screening and I saw on your AR on your
[2:59:09] plan that these are the residents to the
[2:59:11] north and I saw those historical
[2:59:14] pictures with all the vehicles parked
[2:59:16] there and everything else. Um we had a
[2:59:19] little issue of that with the
[2:59:22] parking um lot over by Burgess Orchard
[2:59:27] and the discussion on the on the com on
[2:59:30] the council about six foot fences versus
[2:59:32] 8ft fences landscaping trees. What is
[2:59:36] your plan to provide sufficient kind of
[2:59:38] a buffer there for them? So, we hired an
[2:59:42] a landscape architect that put those
[2:59:44] specific uh trees in there that would we said these these neighbors we we've
[2:59:49] committed to them verbally. You know, I know that that's not in the ordinance,
[2:59:52] but sat in their living room and said
[2:59:54] we're we're we're committed to to
[2:59:56] putting privacy trees there uh to kind
[2:59:59] of what what they they had actually um
[3:00:02] there are trees that were planted there
[3:00:03] that those residences are maintaining
[3:00:05] right now. So, they're paying to to keep
[3:00:08] those up. I believe it's the back of the
[3:00:09] MacArthur's. They may go all the way
[3:00:11] over to the Higgies and I think the
[3:00:13] Sonowskis are in this corner as well.
[3:00:15] So, there are a few trees that were
[3:00:17] planted there. We're saying we will add
[3:00:20] two or do whatever. Uh but but there are
[3:00:23] tree types here that it's showing um
[3:00:26] what the what are plan to be there. I'm
[3:00:28] definitely not a tree expert. So kind of
[3:00:29] outsource that to landscape architect
[3:00:31] and say the goal is to to provide
[3:00:33] screening and privacy there so there's
[3:00:36] you know noise and everything like that
[3:00:38] on that side. So
[3:00:39] >> okay thanks.
[3:00:41] >> Um
[3:00:44] we you talked about oh one note for the
[3:00:46] staff. I think we should add the
[3:00:48] ordinance if we choose to allow this to
[3:00:50] prohibit rentals of U-Hauls.
[3:00:53] >> Right. That would be one that we for
[3:00:55] sure would want to do and not leave that
[3:00:58] to the the uh conditional use permit or
[3:01:01] overlay zone.
[3:01:03] >> Yeah.
[3:01:03] >> Um as far as the CCNRs, the covenants,
[3:01:06] conditions, and restrictions that will
[3:01:07] be on these units limiting the hours of
[3:01:10] operation, you you mentioned the self-
[3:01:12] storage access would probably be between
[3:01:14] 6 a.m. and 10 or 11 p.m. What about the condos? The
[3:01:20] >> condos since they are owned and they're
[3:01:22] going to be, you know, expensive and
[3:01:24] they're going to house expensive
[3:01:26] property.
[3:01:27] um those will be accessed 24/7.
[3:01:30] >> 247. And your experience in these types
[3:01:32] of um developments, how are they used
[3:01:36] late at night? Because that's maybe one
[3:01:37] of the concerns of the neighbors.
[3:01:38] >> Yeah. I mean, it's just like if you
[3:01:40] think of in in a town home community or
[3:01:42] your neighbor, if your neighbors being
[3:01:44] loud or they're having any issues like
[3:01:46] late at night, you're going to you're
[3:01:48] going to elevate that that type of an
[3:01:49] issue. This is a very much gonna, you
[3:01:51] know, we're going to manage a very
[3:01:53] strong community of people that is, so
[3:01:55] if there's any issues, you'll have the
[3:01:57] owner's contact information. You'll have
[3:01:58] our as the as the manager of the
[3:02:01] facilities contact information if there
[3:02:02] are any of those issues of, hey, you're
[3:02:04] not you're disturbing your residential
[3:02:08] neighbors next door, your businesses
[3:02:09] next door, and everything.
[3:02:10] >> And they also have recourse to go to the
[3:02:12] police for basic nuisance laws just like
[3:02:14] any res any neighbor would
[3:02:17] >> I've got to just put a pause for a
[3:02:19] second. We have an ordinance that we
[3:02:20] normally don't go past 9:00 for our
[3:02:22] meetings. So, I need a motion to extend
[3:02:25] our meetings beyond this meeting beyond
[3:02:27] 9:00 p.m.
[3:02:29] >> I'll make a motion to extend the meeting
[3:02:31] beyond 9:00 p.m. until the business of
[3:02:34] the city is complete.
[3:02:35] >> Okay. Is there a second?
[3:02:36] >> I'll second. You got it.
[3:02:37] >> It's been moved by Councilwoman Smeuan,
[3:02:39] seconded by Councilman Rumler to extend
[3:02:41] the meeting.
[3:02:44] >> All in favor?
[3:02:45] >> I.
[3:02:47] >> Okay. Okay. So, as far as the CCR CCNRs,
[3:02:49] I'm very familiar. I I I was a land use
[3:02:51] attorney for a couple years before I
[3:02:52] switched careers. So, I've very familiar
[3:02:53] with CCNRs in the residential side. On
[3:02:56] the business side, who enforces those
[3:02:59] CCNRs or do you have a do you have a
[3:03:01] board of directors made up of the owners
[3:03:03] of the condo units?
[3:03:04] >> Yeah. So, we would have we would have a
[3:03:06] board of owners. So, um the specifics of
[3:03:09] that aren't ironed out exact. I don't
[3:03:11] have a sheet exactly of what that would
[3:03:12] be, but typically those are like 60% of
[3:03:14] the owners have to agree to some odd
[3:03:16] change and there would be some type of a
[3:03:18] management of those to make sure that
[3:03:20] those are being
[3:03:20] >> would there be any kind of city
[3:03:22] requirement to approve those CCNR
[3:03:24] changes? Because what I'm concerned
[3:03:25] about is signage and
[3:03:29] whatever those type of things that are
[3:03:30] going to be in these CCRs that prohibit
[3:03:32] certain uses that may be of concern to
[3:03:33] the residents. I just don't want the
[3:03:35] owners to be able to unilaterally change
[3:03:37] those without any kind of city review
[3:03:40] and approval, especially those things
[3:03:41] that are lead to aesthetics and things
[3:03:44] like that.
[3:03:45] >> Yeah. I think what we had done with the
[3:03:46] question with that with Ryan was that
[3:03:48] was included our CCNRs. We agreed that
[3:03:51] the CCNRs would be included in the
[3:03:52] ordinance somehow. So, so that was
[3:03:54] something that we would um before our approval we would hand over to to
[3:04:01] the city to incorporate. But signage is
[3:04:03] controlled by by city ordinance. So what
[3:04:06] else are you talking about then?
[3:04:08] >> Um if if we own or if we manage a unit,
[3:04:12] we don't want someone going and putting
[3:04:14] a big sign on top of their their portion
[3:04:16] of their building which is part of a
[3:04:18] community as well. So we would say,
[3:04:19] "Hey, you can't can't do that. Your
[3:04:21] stuff's inside your unit, not outside
[3:04:22] your unit."
[3:04:23] >> I think that is also um by city
[3:04:26] ordinance. Like you can't just put stuff
[3:04:28] up anywhere you want. like signs on a
[3:04:30] roundabout even though it's owned by the
[3:04:32] church. Like there's lots of ordinances
[3:04:34] controlling signage. So I'm not sure
[3:04:36] what what they're referring to.
[3:04:38] >> Is there anything you can think of that
[3:04:39] would be in the CCRs CCNRs that aren't
[3:04:41] in the ordinance that
[3:04:43] >> that would be potentially impactful for
[3:04:46] the residents nearby?
[3:04:48] >> Um the ordinance says no business use
[3:04:51] that would draw in
[3:04:53] >> council member. Could I just make a
[3:04:54] suggestion? if you are inclined to
[3:04:57] proceed with this with the text
[3:05:00] amendment and it does mention CCNRs. In
[3:05:05] my experience, u the city doesn't have a
[3:05:09] lot of leverage unless the city is
[3:05:11] either a party to the CCNRs or the city
[3:05:14] is an express intended third party
[3:05:17] beneficiary that can enforce the CCNRs.
[3:05:21] What often happens is that HOAs
[3:05:24] decide they just don't want to maintain
[3:05:26] the landscaped area even though that's
[3:05:28] part of their the approved covenants
[3:05:30] conditions and restrictions and then and
[3:05:32] then what do you do?
[3:05:33] >> They just say we'll give this over to
[3:05:35] you, you take care of it, city. So, um
[3:05:40] there there are some ways to to improve
[3:05:42] enforcement.
[3:05:44] Um,
[3:05:46] homeowners associations don't often go
[3:05:49] after their own members because they
[3:05:50] don't have a lot of money to go do that.
[3:05:53] So, so there are some things we could do
[3:05:55] if you decide to go that direction.
[3:06:00] >> Who who maintains the exterior uh
[3:06:02] landscaping? Is that
[3:06:05] the owner of the business? Not not the
[3:06:08] >> It would be an HOA. So, it' be us who's
[3:06:11] the manager of the HOA. And so we would
[3:06:14] maintain it.
[3:06:17] >> All right. So you have a you have the
[3:06:18] main storage facility and then you have
[3:06:20] the individually owned condos.
[3:06:22] >> Yeah.
[3:06:22] >> Two two separate uses,
[3:06:24] >> right?
[3:06:25] >> Yeah.
[3:06:25] >> So who who would maintain all this
[3:06:28] landscaping? That's the the the owners,
[3:06:31] the board.
[3:06:32] >> Yeah. But it would be it Yeah. We we are
[3:06:35] the we would be the management the HOA
[3:06:37] management company. So right now at
[3:06:38] Stack Real Estate, we have a property
[3:06:40] management company as well. So manage a
[3:06:42] bunch of um so we have a lot of
[3:06:44] experience in managing real estate and
[3:06:46] so it'd be an extension of that that
[3:06:48] would be in charge of u of keeping that
[3:06:53] via the HOA.
[3:06:57] Right. I I uh I appreciate your efforts
[3:07:00] to reach out to the residents um and
[3:07:02] asking us for
[3:07:04] um contact information of those who have
[3:07:06] reached out. As I mentioned, I think
[3:07:08] I've mentioned before, there was a
[3:07:10] Facebook post in November, shortly after
[3:07:12] the planning commission meeting that
[3:07:13] just referred to the project as storage
[3:07:16] sheds or storage units. And the 14
[3:07:19] people that contacted me
[3:07:21] >> shortly after that basically were
[3:07:24] thinking of what you typically see in an
[3:07:27] industrial area. And in my response to
[3:07:30] them and then forwarding your
[3:07:33] architectural concept plans last week to
[3:07:35] all those individuals who reached out to
[3:07:36] me before, I asked them if they were if
[3:07:39] they had additional concerns they would
[3:07:40] like to bring up before this meeting.
[3:07:42] And I had two people respond. One was,
[3:07:44] well, I saw what was there before with
[3:07:46] purple and then before that with the
[3:07:48] candy place because I've lived there a
[3:07:50] long time. I definitely don't want
[3:07:52] anything that brings traffic and more
[3:07:54] parking along the street. And I've had
[3:07:56] people talk to me about all the parking
[3:07:57] that took place in the church parking
[3:07:59] lot across the street. And I personally
[3:08:02] had extensive experience with that in
[3:08:04] the last I think we've been going to
[3:08:05] that church for the last nine years when
[3:08:07] they moved us from the one here by the
[3:08:09] roundabout. And on our nights with the
[3:08:13] youth, there were always, as you showed
[3:08:16] in your picture, cars and cars from the
[3:08:18] purple employees that were there and all
[3:08:21] along the street. And obviously I I
[3:08:24] would see think the residents were very
[3:08:25] concerned about that and now we're going
[3:08:27] to have one employee there it sounds
[3:08:28] like um and then the occasional people
[3:08:32] coming in. So the biggest concern to me
[3:08:34] from the resident expressed was traffic
[3:08:36] and safety anesthetics. And it sounds
[3:08:38] like the traffic and safety from these
[3:08:40] two residents that have replied is we
[3:08:43] would much rather have this business
[3:08:45] than some of the potential businesses.
[3:08:48] And what Ryan said briefly was
[3:08:52] prior to this proposal, the proposals to
[3:08:54] the city council before have been
[3:08:57] returning to industrial use, which the
[3:08:59] city council um voted down on a five to
[3:09:02] zero vote. We didn't want that kind of
[3:09:04] traffic in the area and trucks. And then
[3:09:06] the other proposals were mixed
[3:09:07] residential, retail use, high density
[3:09:10] that would have would have brought
[3:09:12] significant traffic. And you had the
[3:09:13] list of all the potential things that
[3:09:15] could be done on there. Not a lot of
[3:09:17] those would work with that existing
[3:09:19] building. What do you think? 43,000
[3:09:20] square feet of usable space. So, also
[3:09:24] considering that, um, for me, this seems
[3:09:27] like a very viable use of that property
[3:09:30] the way it is. The other person and
[3:09:34] Andrew referenced these questions. I
[3:09:36] would just like to pose some of these to
[3:09:37] you because they haven't been some of
[3:09:39] them haven't been addressed yet.
[3:09:41] >> Is what should residents expect in terms
[3:09:43] of the duration, noise, and impact of
[3:09:46] the construction process?
[3:09:48] >> Yeah, I understand that concern for
[3:09:50] sure. Um, we anticipate it to take us
[3:09:52] about 12 months to build. Um and we in
[3:09:55] speaking with all the neighbors, our our
[3:09:57] commitment is we'll do our best to keep
[3:10:00] it um as as quiet, communicate in
[3:10:03] advance with uh what whatever work is
[3:10:06] taking place. Uh we we talked to one
[3:10:08] neighbor who runs the the event center
[3:10:10] and their concern was what time of year
[3:10:12] are you going to be building that
[3:10:13] building? And our response is we don't
[3:10:15] know exactly the timing of when we'd be
[3:10:17] able to pull a building permit. So,
[3:10:19] because I don't know the time I'll be able to pull a building permit,
[3:10:22] I don't know when I would start that.
[3:10:24] But understanding their seasonal
[3:10:26] business that is next door is we would
[3:10:28] cooperate and communicate the best that
[3:10:30] we could so that if there's a way for us
[3:10:31] to phase it so it impacts them the
[3:10:34] least, we're committed to do that, you
[3:10:36] know, and so gave them my contact
[3:10:38] information and that's the commitment
[3:10:41] that I gave to them there. Um, but but
[3:10:44] for all residences in general, I think
[3:10:46] once we start construction, we're about
[3:10:48] a 12-month timeline. Um, again,
[3:10:50] depending on weather, if we have a
[3:10:53] winter, depending on how intense the
[3:10:55] winter is, those kind of things. So, um,
[3:10:58] but yeah, I think our commitment is we
[3:10:59] want to be good neighbors. We don't want
[3:11:00] anybody to be, you know, irritated with
[3:11:02] us every day. We'll have our contact
[3:11:04] information to everybody that is
[3:11:06] concerned. We'll have a superintendent
[3:11:08] that will be able to be in touch with
[3:11:09] them and communicate in advance with
[3:11:11] scheduling, all that kind of stuff, and
[3:11:13] we'll just try to get it done as quickly
[3:11:14] as we can. So, we're minimizing impact.
[3:11:18] >> Great.
[3:11:19] >> Yeah, you've you've already answered
[3:11:20] their other question, so I appreciate
[3:11:21] that. Um, I will say this is a a
[3:11:24] challenge decision is we have to weigh
[3:11:26] property ownership rights, and I've I've
[3:11:28] expressed this before in land use
[3:11:30] decisions. You have constitutional
[3:11:31] rights to use your property the way
[3:11:32] you'd like. the legislative branch can
[3:11:36] attempt to impose restrictions on that
[3:11:37] use that has been um limited by the
[3:11:40] judicial branch and we have zoning we've
[3:11:43] decided the prior city council has
[3:11:45] decided this is our commercial business
[3:11:48] commercial zone so it's already zoned
[3:11:49] business commercial that was the
[3:11:50] intended use as part of our master plan
[3:11:53] and the purposes of the zoning is I mean
[3:11:57] I won't go through them all I've said
[3:11:58] them before but you're required to do
[3:12:01] have the exact same setbacks as any
[3:12:03] other potential use. The height
[3:12:05] restrictions, you've said your plan is
[3:12:07] to have them 13 feet lower than what the
[3:12:09] maximum allowed would be. Is that still
[3:12:11] your plan?
[3:12:11] >> Uh yeah, I think the highest is is 35 ft
[3:12:15] in our setbacks. Again, we're not asking
[3:12:16] for any relief along 200 North.
[3:12:19] >> So looking at the other properties, not
[3:12:20] in Pine as one specific example, they
[3:12:23] have a very tall building, so they've
[3:12:24] probably maxed out their height or close
[3:12:26] to it and are on their setbacks. So,
[3:12:29] it's the same the same restrictions. And
[3:12:32] one of the biggest purposes of zoning is
[3:12:35] to separate
[3:12:37] industrial from residential to reduce
[3:12:40] noise, pollution, and traffic
[3:12:41] congestion. And again, looking at the
[3:12:43] variable options for this, especially
[3:12:45] the traffic and safety, the traffic and
[3:12:47] safety concerns that the residents have
[3:12:48] posed, this seems like a a very viable
[3:12:51] project for that for those purposes. Um,
[3:12:55] I hope everyone's listened to the
[3:12:56] planning commission. They had a a very
[3:12:58] good discussion about this. I'm not
[3:12:59] going to bring up everything they said
[3:13:00] when their decision to um recommend
[3:13:04] approval on a six to zero vote, but they
[3:13:06] did discuss the parking and traffic and
[3:13:09] the CCNRs that control limit limit
[3:13:12] access times and and those type of
[3:13:14] things.
[3:13:15] And one of the highlights was that and
[3:13:18] this is what I asked you in our a
[3:13:19] meeting several months ago is do you
[3:13:21] think this will be used by alpine
[3:13:23] residents? Is this filling a need for
[3:13:24] alpine residents? and your response then
[3:13:26] and some of the responses I've gotten
[3:13:28] and not just the emails that were cut
[3:13:30] and pasted from everybody else, but I've
[3:13:31] asked several residents what they
[3:13:33] thought about this proposal and the
[3:13:36] response has been has been very positive
[3:13:38] once they learn that it's not the
[3:13:40] standard
[3:13:41] storage facility that you that you think
[3:13:43] about when you first hear storage
[3:13:45] facility. And I didn't get much of a
[3:13:48] response from those 14 residents other
[3:13:50] than thank you for the explanation and
[3:13:52] we look forward to learning more from the developer. and I really
[3:13:55] appreciate you doing that. And I did
[3:13:56] receive some feedback on the positive
[3:13:59] nature of your interactions with them
[3:14:00] and your willingness to be flexible.
[3:14:05] >> All right. Uh let me just check my
[3:14:06] notes.
[3:14:10] » All right. I think that's it for me.
[3:14:13] >> Thank you. Um Jessica,
[3:14:17] » my first questions have to do with the
[3:14:19] 52 is it 52 individual condos?
[3:14:22] >> Yeah. So those will be separately deed
[3:14:25] and those will be separate owners.
[3:14:27] Correct. And so what does that look like
[3:14:30] if there isn't a compliance with the
[3:14:32] HOA? I know I've dealt with situations
[3:14:36] where individual owners
[3:14:39] don't comply and it's really hard to um
[3:14:43] have oversight.
[3:14:48] » Yeah. I think I think um again the the
[3:14:51] average purchase price on these is is
[3:14:53] steep and it is a it is they're buying
[3:14:56] this because it's it is a part of a
[3:14:57] community as well. So there is a little
[3:14:59] bit of just trust that's going to go
[3:15:00] into that element. But um I mean it is
[3:15:04] in our best interest if if someone's
[3:15:06] buying a unit and spending a decent
[3:15:09] amount of money on that unit that we
[3:15:11] protect that person by saying, "Hey, you
[3:15:14] know, this individual over here, we're we're highly incentivized to
[3:15:19] enforce the HOA ourselves." Um but but
[3:15:22] yeah, I think I think uh we we can
[3:15:24] between now and a couple weeks from now,
[3:15:26] we can figure out how to satisfy that
[3:15:27] concern some some way or another with uh proving the teeth in that a
[3:15:33] little bit more. So that that way
[3:15:34] >> because now we have 52 individual not
[3:15:37] accessory dwelling units but accessory
[3:15:39] units deeded and owned by 52 separate
[3:15:43] you know land property owners. And so
[3:15:46] speaking to you know your property owner
[3:15:48] rights it it changes
[3:15:51] the dynamics of it being a storage unit
[3:15:55] which is you know what has been proposed
[3:15:58] but it actually is partly storage but
[3:16:02] also partly again accessory units all
[3:16:06] individually owned. And in looking at
[3:16:09] that and considering it, um, it just
[3:16:12] seems like there's a lot of legal
[3:16:14] challenges that are unknowns. And so I
[3:16:18] was just asking also from a legal
[3:16:21] standpoint, what kinds of
[3:16:24] you again problems could that pose?
[3:16:27] Well, I believe I mentioned in in some
[3:16:30] situations
[3:16:32] HOAs just decide they are not interested
[3:16:35] in pursuing one of their members or they
[3:16:39] decide to dissolve because they don't
[3:16:42] folks don't like paying assessments and
[3:16:44] then they try to just the default is
[3:16:47] well the city will take care of this and
[3:16:49] that's
[3:16:51] sometimes that's a challenge. I've I've
[3:16:54] had that in some other communities where
[3:16:56] that happened. And um so
[3:17:00] as I as I mentioned, it's often
[3:17:04] helpful to have any amendment to the
[3:17:08] CCNRs
[3:17:09] have to go through for city approval,
[3:17:13] city consent to any amendment sometime
[3:17:15] or to dissolution of the HOA.
[3:17:18] >> So that's one way to do it. Um,
[3:17:23] and there's kind of a, you know, nothing
[3:17:26] is failsafe, but there are some things
[3:17:28] that you can do, as I mentioned, to kind
[3:17:30] of strengthen the city's ability in the
[3:17:33] absence of a strong HOA to take care of
[3:17:36] those issues.
[3:17:37] >> And did you say that's through making
[3:17:39] sure the code amendment would address
[3:17:42] those? That's one of the ways to do it
[3:17:43] to do so.
[3:17:45] Well, if the code if the text amendment
[3:17:48] says that CCNRs must be approved by the
[3:17:51] city or in a form approved by the city,
[3:17:54] then you can certainly require that.
[3:17:58] >> How about landscape maintenance? That
[3:17:59] type of put that language.
[3:18:01] >> That's all part of the CCNRs.
[3:18:03] >> So, that couldn't be part of the code
[3:18:05] that they have to maintain the
[3:18:07] landscaping.
[3:18:08] >> You can put it in there, but you
[3:18:11] Yeah, you can put in whatever you want.
[3:18:13] If you want to be that specific, you can
[3:18:16] do that.
[3:18:19] » Yeah. And so the instance I'm thinking
[3:18:21] about, it was like a million-doll
[3:18:24] property and it was in an an HOA and one
[3:18:27] of the residents just decided they
[3:18:29] weren't going to pay the assessment and
[3:18:31] it really held up the improvements of
[3:18:33] the entire project because, as you know,
[3:18:35] that money coming in takes care of the
[3:18:37] exterior of the property. And so if
[3:18:39] you've got one person that's not going
[3:18:42] to pay and then you're saying everybody
[3:18:44] else has to chip in and pay his share,
[3:18:48] you know, now we're talking about 56
[3:18:50] different owners
[3:18:52] um navigating that. So that's something
[3:18:54] to keep top of mind. I also when you
[3:18:57] looked at
[3:18:57] >> Let's address that real quick.
[3:18:58] >> Well, can I go because you went Yeah. So
[3:19:00] when you talked about traffic, you had
[3:19:02] talked about traffic again as a self
[3:19:04] storage. Do we have any traffic data
[3:19:06] around condos?
[3:19:09] Um, so two parts. Um, I I think on the HOA side of it, we'll agree to
[3:19:17] figure out how to to how to put a little
[3:19:18] bit more teeth in that, work with you
[3:19:19] guys to figure that out because I think
[3:19:20] we're mutually incentivized to make sure
[3:19:23] that that happens. So, I guess that
[3:19:25] side. Um, as far as that, uh, yeah, this
[3:19:29] these going to operate very sim because
[3:19:31] they're being used as self- storage
[3:19:32] facilities
[3:19:34] similar to a self- storage. anticipate
[3:19:36] traffic to be similar, you know, as far
[3:19:38] as usage. These type of units is it is
[3:19:41] storage in nature. So, you're not going
[3:19:44] to be having every one of these guys
[3:19:45] visit their units or these families in
[3:19:48] visit their units every single day. Um,
[3:19:51] and so in similar facilities like this
[3:19:53] that we've that we visited, their
[3:19:55] parking and their requirements that way
[3:19:56] are very similar. So, traffic also very low. Um,
[3:20:01] but yeah.
[3:20:04] Do you have any like places where you
[3:20:07] could do a traffic study or get us
[3:20:09] traffic information?
[3:20:10] >> Absolutely.
[3:20:11] >> On what that would look like?
[3:20:12] >> Yeah, we could do that.
[3:20:13] >> We could provide that.
[3:20:14] >> There's going to be improvements in the
[3:20:16] condos, correct? Running water. Can you
[3:20:19] speak to some of the improvements that
[3:20:20] will be inside the condos?
[3:20:22] >> Yeah, on average, the larger units that
[3:20:24] are 30 feet wide or so, I would imagine
[3:20:26] there's going to be a bathroom, so
[3:20:27] there'll be plumbing in there. There'll
[3:20:29] be a kitchenet, so like a small kitchen.
[3:20:32] um and then a mezzanine layer and so and
[3:20:35] HVAC or so. So they may go epoxy the
[3:20:38] floor, paint it, put some lighting, but
[3:20:40] that's about the extent of it. So it's
[3:20:42] restricted. No one can be sleeping
[3:20:43] there, all that kind of stuff. So but it
[3:20:46] could be could be a a half bath or
[3:20:48] bathroom in there. Yeah.
[3:20:51] >> So maybe more visits than just your
[3:20:53] storage unit possibly.
[3:20:56] >> Yeah. Yeah. But Yeah. Yeah.
[3:20:58] >> Okay. So that's just again about traffic
[3:21:01] and ownership. I wanted to move into
[3:21:03] Andrew. You had mentioned something you
[3:21:06] know a resident had said why don't we
[3:21:08] have a plan first and then look at what
[3:21:10] fits in our plan. We actually do have a
[3:21:12] plan. It's we've been working on it for
[3:21:14] almost three years now. It's called um
[3:21:17] the gateway corridor small area plan. I
[3:21:20] believe we secured a grant and it's like
[3:21:23] a I think a $90,000
[3:21:26] study and hundreds of residents in
[3:21:29] Alpine have been given their input.
[3:21:31] We've looked at this area and we
[3:21:34] designated this area, it's still almost
[3:21:37] across the finish line, but we did have
[3:21:40] um a designation for it as a transition
[3:21:42] zone because of the reason that we have
[3:21:45] commercial moving into residential. So
[3:21:48] if you look at the definition of a
[3:21:50] transition zone, it's actually where you
[3:21:54] the usage goes from commercial to a
[3:21:58] lower impact usage to then residential
[3:22:01] single family. So just when I look at
[3:22:04] this project alone and I consider
[3:22:06] commercial and then a lighter impact to
[3:22:11] a single family home.
[3:22:13] I don't view an industrial use as um and
[3:22:18] not just me but city planning doesn't
[3:22:20] view industrial use as a lighter impact
[3:22:23] from commercial. And so I see this in
[3:22:27] conflict with our plan for this area.
[3:22:31] It's a gateway historic and it's really
[3:22:33] the core and the heart of our community
[3:22:36] in a lot of ways. It's where the old um
[3:22:39] original school was built and a lot of
[3:22:42] the residents that live in Alpine today
[3:22:44] still went to that school. And so it's very um inongruent
[3:22:50] and not aligned with Alpine identity. So
[3:22:53] that's my thoughts on
[3:22:57] the gateway corridor plan because we
[3:22:59] identified it as a transition. Now
[3:23:02] again, there were some options for what
[3:23:04] you're looking at things like if this
[3:23:07] kind of improvement was put in a
[3:23:10] transition area. It is typically done
[3:23:13] with 30 to 50 foot setbacks. So it's not
[3:23:16] a never situation, but it's a situation
[3:23:19] where it needs to be compatible with its
[3:23:21] surroundings. I think you told me this
[3:23:24] has 15 foot setbacks maybe sometimes 19
[3:23:28] >> on the
[3:23:29] >> correct. Yeah. So along along the front
[3:23:31] road along 200 north there's a 15 foot
[3:23:34] frontage setback and then with the jogs
[3:23:36] in the building to kind of provide that
[3:23:38] relief. Some of those are as deep as
[3:23:39] four which would be 19 or so. Yeah.
[3:23:42] >> So again, reading about this, typically
[3:23:44] for a transition area, you would see a
[3:23:46] 30 to 50 foot setback for this kind of
[3:23:49] um industrial use if a city wanted to go
[3:23:52] that direction. Um,
[3:23:55] lastly,
[3:23:57] as far as bulk and massing, I think it
[3:24:00] was two or three months ago, we had
[3:24:03] taken a deep dive into our bulk and
[3:24:05] massing ordinances and we actually
[3:24:06] looked at um quantifying a 15% maximum
[3:24:12] allowable coverage of a lot in the
[3:24:17] commercial area or pretty much in this
[3:24:20] downtown area. And I think I saw that
[3:24:23] this covers 55% of the lot. So again,
[3:24:27] you know, kind of aligning with Andrew's
[3:24:29] message. Is this a no never? I wouldn't
[3:24:32] say that, but it needs a lot of work to
[3:24:35] hit transitional. I mean, to hit again,
[3:24:39] we were talking about a 15% requirement.
[3:24:42] >> I don't remember that 15 point. No,
[3:24:45] >> that's way extreme. Yeah, that that was
[3:24:48] what I believe went in front of planning
[3:24:50] commission
[3:24:51] >> 15%
[3:24:52] >> five is for schools
[3:24:55] >> it for bulk and mass
[3:24:58] >> no that's for schools specifically
[3:25:00] >> so I know Chrissy you've been working on
[3:25:02] bulk and massing this is covers 55%
[3:25:06] of the per
[3:25:08] >> I've been focused on residential to be
[3:25:10] honest with you
[3:25:11] >> okay
[3:25:13] so but in taking in that And and I think
[3:25:16] part of what's been guiding that is
[3:25:18] keeping the look and feel and preserving
[3:25:20] Alpine. And so I feel like bulk and
[3:25:23] massing I guess we've been looking at it
[3:25:25] as residential and schools but excluding
[3:25:29] commercial. Yeah. So that's a concern is
[3:25:32] that it covers 55%.
[3:25:35] Um
[3:25:38] let me see if there was any as far as
[3:25:40] questions go.
[3:25:45] I can't imagine,
[3:25:48] you know, if you, let's say you're
[3:25:49] looking at Main Street and looking at a
[3:25:52] project,
[3:25:53] um, like a commercial project that's
[3:25:56] going in, and let's say it's, you know,
[3:25:58] on a quarter acre, which is really what
[3:26:00] a lot of these lots are. Um, if you're
[3:26:04] saying that this is, what was it? 52%
[3:26:06] 51.
[3:26:07] >> It's 55%.
[3:26:10] I can't imagine a business going in
[3:26:12] there less than 55% of a quarter acre
[3:26:14] lot.
[3:26:16] So if you're going to look at the bulk
[3:26:17] and massing, let's do it all across the
[3:26:19] BC. Um, you know, for me it's let's be
[3:26:24] specific about it. And if you want the
[3:26:26] bulking massing to be less than that,
[3:26:28] then consider all the businesses that
[3:26:30] are in Main Street. Almost none of them
[3:26:33] would be compliant if you're requiring
[3:26:35] >> but our but they comply with our BC
[3:26:38] zoning.
[3:26:40] So that's the difference.
[3:26:41] >> Not all of them.
[3:26:47] » Again, um in looking at land use, it is
[3:26:51] you you're saying 100 years. I'm just
[3:26:53] going to go with 50 because I won't be
[3:26:55] here in 50. But it's a big decision and
[3:26:58] there's this is um
[3:27:02] I would say
[3:27:04] very very far from
[3:27:06] the alpine look and feel rural. Um
[3:27:12] you know fixing the density, you know,
[3:27:14] we don't just have what does it look on
[3:27:17] the outside, the exterior, the
[3:27:18] landscaping. There's a lot of other
[3:27:20] moving parts in this that seems um
[3:27:25] pretty far away from again protecting
[3:27:29] Alpine historic
[3:27:31] identity. And as all of the open houses
[3:27:34] we sat in and the hundreds of hours
[3:27:37] we've spent on this plan, I don't recall
[3:27:42] one resident saying we need storage
[3:27:44] units. So, I mean, I think it's great
[3:27:47] that you've identified a a niche and
[3:27:49] that some people would prefer to own a
[3:27:53] condo here, but I don't think it meets
[3:27:56] our identity.
[3:28:00] » Sarah,
[3:28:00] >> can I can I comment to that? Is that all
[3:28:03] right? Um, I think I think it's
[3:28:06] important, and this is just my position,
[3:28:08] that you need to compare it to what the
[3:28:10] likely alternatives for this specific
[3:28:12] site could be.
[3:28:15] And you know, so I think that that's more of what we're looking at of
[3:28:18] what could be here, which historically
[3:28:22] has been industrial.
[3:28:24] Um, highdensity retail, which we have
[3:28:27] experience with from our numbers of what
[3:28:30] we've done, doesn't pencil. There's not
[3:28:33] a way for us to incentivize a tenant to
[3:28:35] go on this small of a street and pay the
[3:28:37] rent that would requ be required in
[3:28:39] order to justify doing retail. Um, and
[3:28:42] highdensity housing
[3:28:45] also has been shot down and I think
[3:28:46] that's a heavy piece of this. So, we're
[3:28:48] comparing more of like what the
[3:28:50] potential options are here versus what a
[3:28:53] perfect scenario would be for this site
[3:28:56] stripping all the rest of that away. So
[3:28:58] that that that's I think an important
[3:29:00] element of this specific property and
[3:29:03] that was a conversation we had with the
[3:29:04] planning commission that was part of
[3:29:06] their decision of yeah not ideal but in
[3:29:10] this specific scenario it makes sense.
[3:29:12] So I think that's that's a just a a
[3:29:16] comment.
[3:29:17] >> Yeah. And just as a followup to that if
[3:29:18] I could um you mentioned the small area
[3:29:21] plan gateway quarter plan lower impact.
[3:29:25] >> What is the impact? I mean, if if retail
[3:29:28] is a better use there, you think that's
[3:29:30] less impact, that's going to create
[3:29:32] significant traffic and parking. That
[3:29:33] seems to be the one of the biggest
[3:29:35] concerns of the local residents. It's
[3:29:37] already a fairly busy street. And when
[3:29:39] it was busy during the purple days, it
[3:29:43] was chaos there. I mean, trying to get a
[3:29:45] parking spot in my own church parking
[3:29:46] lot um was often challenging. And there
[3:29:50] were cars parked all along the street. I
[3:29:52] would run along there all the time. And
[3:29:54] as you know, more cars, less safe for
[3:29:57] pedestrians and bikes. So, when you
[3:29:59] think of lower impact, that's one of my
[3:30:02] and this was mentioned by the planning
[3:30:04] commission by several of the planning
[3:30:05] commission members is that that's what
[3:30:07] they liked about this is the low impact
[3:30:10] to the neighborhood uh particularly with
[3:30:13] traffic and and that's why we didn't
[3:30:17] want industrial use. There was all these
[3:30:19] the trucks and the traffic,
[3:30:20] >> right? But so those those two are false
[3:30:23] assumptions. You're talking about an
[3:30:25] industrial use that no longer is allowed
[3:30:28] because it fell out of
[3:30:30] >> saying if it's a retail commercial.
[3:30:32] >> Well, wait, you compared it to the
[3:30:33] parking during the purple days. And so
[3:30:35] that creates an image that no longer
[3:30:37] will exist because that usage is no
[3:30:39] longer allowed. And that it's also a
[3:30:41] false assumption because I did get quite
[3:30:44] a few emails saying, you know, again to
[3:30:47] your point, if not this, then what else?
[3:30:51] That's our job as the overseers of the
[3:30:55] land use and the identity of our
[3:30:57] community. Like if not this, then what
[3:30:59] else? We have a whole list of things
[3:31:02] that are allowed.
[3:31:03] >> We have a whole community of people that
[3:31:07] want Alpine preserved. I don't know the
[3:31:10] answer. What else? But I can look at
[3:31:12] this and say, does this fit with the
[3:31:16] identity of Alpine? And so I don't see
[3:31:19] that we should make decisions,
[3:31:21] legislative decisions to fit something
[3:31:24] into a space just because
[3:31:27] that not perfect use has been revealed,
[3:31:30] but the use just hasn't been a fit yet.
[3:31:33] We're just not there yet. And that's
[3:31:35] actually fairly normal in this process.
[3:31:40] C
[3:31:40] >> can I speak to the transition zone?
[3:31:42] >> Can we have Can we listen to Sarah? It's
[3:31:44] getting late.
[3:31:45] >> Let's hear Sarah's um
[3:31:48] on this and she has
[3:31:49] >> Sarah has a twoour sermon.
[3:31:52] >> I'm not that longwinded. Um first of
[3:31:55] all, I appreciate how sensitive you've
[3:31:57] been to the residents. Um I love that
[3:32:00] you're keeping you plan to keep the
[3:32:01] historic monument. I mean, I just I
[3:32:04] appreciate that as a as a like a a
[3:32:07] partnership with the city. This I I
[3:32:10] think that you've made it really easy
[3:32:12] for us to communicate and get our
[3:32:14] questions answered. So, I admire that.
[3:32:15] Um, I just wanted to I just a few
[3:32:18] concerns. My concerns mostly are just
[3:32:20] with having a a co uh a code amendment
[3:32:24] in general. Um, but I do have just two
[3:32:28] really quick questions. Um, one was kind
[3:32:31] of already answered, but there are
[3:32:32] restrooms in the luxury condo. That that
[3:32:36] just for me is a concern because I know
[3:32:38] we're not allowing people to live in
[3:32:39] those, but I can see people trying to do
[3:32:42] that. So, that is a concern. Um, one
[3:32:46] other thought that I had is I'm just
[3:32:48] calling other storage units around and
[3:32:49] kind of figuring out. They like at
[3:32:52] Highland Hideway, they have an employee,
[3:32:54] their manager that stays there, like
[3:32:56] lives there on site year round. I'm just
[3:32:58] confirming that's not what you guys are
[3:32:59] planning on doing.
[3:33:00] >> Correct. We could also add that if if
[3:33:02] we're adding
[3:33:03] >> said like 9 to5 or something.
[3:33:04] >> Yeah, we don't we don't that that's a
[3:33:06] very um historically a very old school
[3:33:08] way of operating a self-s storage
[3:33:10] facility, but it's it's effective, you
[3:33:12] know, for for that. But we use cameras
[3:33:14] and so we got a lot of cameras that'll
[3:33:17] and then also our building is all
[3:33:18] enclosed in one building instead of
[3:33:21] multiple buildings kind of like that facility is. So in order to get in,
[3:33:25] you got to use a key code. It's the only
[3:33:26] way you can get a door to open. So, we
[3:33:28] don't we don't I don't feel like we need
[3:33:30] an individual that lives there. So, we
[3:33:32] can be willing to add that as a
[3:33:34] restriction of no on-site uh residence.
[3:33:38] Um
[3:33:39] >> I think that falls to our ordinance. You
[3:33:41] can't live in commercial property.
[3:33:43] >> Yeah.
[3:33:44] >> And and then my last question is just um
[3:33:46] I noticed there's a clubhouse. Can you
[3:33:48] just kind of explain like what do you
[3:33:50] foresee that being used for? Are there
[3:33:52] hours that that will be allowed to be
[3:33:54] utilized? Is it just for people that own
[3:33:57] the luxury condo units or anyone who has
[3:34:00] a a storage unit?
[3:34:03] >> Yeah, so it's just for the members that
[3:34:05] own a unit to be able to use uh in it
[3:34:08] would be uh like a a lounge type TV
[3:34:12] couches and a kitchenet type area for
[3:34:15] owners to gather, talk about their
[3:34:17] whatever they want to talk about, hang
[3:34:19] out. And then there'll also be a little
[3:34:20] conference room. So, if I owned one and
[3:34:23] I needed to have a meeting or something
[3:34:24] like that that I could do that quickly
[3:34:26] there, take a Zoom call uh just for just
[3:34:28] mainly for convenience. So, it's an
[3:34:30] amenity to the owners to be able to use.
[3:34:32] Um but yeah, no, if no self- storage
[3:34:35] unit uh renters would be using that.
[3:34:39] >> Okay. Yeah, that's just a concern I had
[3:34:41] just, you know, how late are these
[3:34:43] gatherings going to go at the clubhouse.
[3:34:44] But, um all my other questions have
[3:34:47] already been asked and answered, so I do
[3:34:49] not have any other questions. But Carla,
[3:34:51] when or Mayor Merrill, when he's
[3:34:53] finished, can I make a motion?
[3:34:54] >> Yeah. Um, so if there's no motion for
[3:34:57] this, it's just a discussion item
[3:35:00] >> for today.
[3:35:04] » Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. So, I I just wanted
[3:35:06] to conclude. Um, I'm sure
[3:35:09] >> I did have clarification about the
[3:35:11] actual ordinance because we're going to
[3:35:12] see it again with
[3:35:13] >> edit.
[3:35:15] So, yeah, hold on just a sec. So, along
[3:35:17] with everybody else, I've been receiving
[3:35:19] emails all day and this one um did stand
[3:35:23] out. It said um this is a resident Ryan
[3:35:26] Thcker. I love this concept and it
[3:35:29] solves a need for me. I'm already take
[3:35:31] talking to them about buying the largest
[3:35:33] unit for my car collection. Finding a
[3:35:35] safe area to store my collection that is
[3:35:38] close to my home is extremely difficult.
[3:35:40] Having a resource like this in Alpine
[3:35:43] would be a tremendous asset to the city.
[3:35:45] I also think the type of development
[3:35:47] partner matters. I've worked with stack
[3:35:49] on offices for my business for my
[3:35:52] business at Thanksgiving Point in South
[3:35:53] Jordan. In addition, I have worked with
[3:35:56] them on projects in multiple states.
[3:35:58] Integrity and who you partner with
[3:36:00] matters to me. Stack is a developer that
[3:36:03] keeps their commitments and every
[3:36:05] project they do of the highest quality
[3:36:07] and adds value to the city. And I do
[3:36:10] have to say of all the people that I've
[3:36:12] worked with in the last four years, um,
[3:36:14] you know, wanting to do projects in the
[3:36:16] city, I do appreciate your outreach
[3:36:19] effort because I feel like people that
[3:36:21] even if their recommendation is that
[3:36:23] they don't want it, they've appreciated
[3:36:25] your interaction and have acknowledged
[3:36:28] that. Um, I'm not, you know, so I do
[3:36:32] appreciate the efforts there. I'm not
[3:36:34] sure where this is going to end and I
[3:36:35] think I've been pretty honest with you
[3:36:37] that I saw it going either way. Um, so
[3:36:40] with that, let's You've got a last
[3:36:42] comment regarding the code.
[3:36:44] >> It's a question about the code. I feel
[3:36:45] like um Steve was leaning towards making
[3:36:48] a more putting more teeth um into I went
[3:36:52] over the code after you guys were all
[3:36:54] talking. I was paying attention to you
[3:36:56] too, but there's two times you have to
[3:36:59] res uh any applicant and in this case it
[3:37:01] looks like it's going to be you would
[3:37:03] need to resubmit something to the city.
[3:37:05] And one of them is if the site is um
[3:37:08] line item E um if the site is adjacent
[3:37:12] to residential uses, the applicant shall
[3:37:14] submit a screening and buffering plan
[3:37:16] for approval as part of the development
[3:37:19] review process. It does not designate
[3:37:21] who is the approval. Is that staff,
[3:37:25] Steve?
[3:37:27] >> Well, here's again here's one of the
[3:37:30] issues with the code. The way it's
[3:37:33] proposed is that the conditional use
[3:37:35] permit would would come before the city
[3:37:38] council rather than the planning
[3:37:40] commission or staff. So asking the city
[3:37:44] council to engage in an administrative
[3:37:47] decision-making process,
[3:37:49] it would be submitted obviously to
[3:37:52] staff,
[3:37:53] but that would have that would be part
[3:37:56] of the overall package.
[3:37:59] I yeah, I will just say um as part of
[3:38:03] the development review process and so
[3:38:07] ultimately that comes down to the land
[3:38:09] use authority in this circumstance which
[3:38:11] would be the city council as the
[3:38:14] ordinance is proposed.
[3:38:15] >> Okay. And e sorry I should have just
[3:38:17] highlighted also the other submit is L
[3:38:21] and but this designates specifically I
[3:38:23] wondered why they were different. The
[3:38:25] applicant shall submit a development
[3:38:27] agreement of and covenants. It's the
[3:38:29] CCNRs we were talking about for review
[3:38:31] and approval by the city council. So,
[3:38:34] one designates the city council and one
[3:38:36] did not. Can we just clean that up to
[3:38:38] make it consistent and be accurate to
[3:38:40] what is really going to happen?
[3:38:41] >> Sure. But
[3:38:42] >> thank you. But all I'm saying is I think
[3:38:45] there's another and you'd have to scroll
[3:38:47] to it, Heidi, but I think at the very
[3:38:50] end I think it says approval process,
[3:38:53] land use type, land use authority, city
[3:38:55] council.
[3:38:57] >> So
[3:38:57] >> Oh, down at the very bottom,
[3:38:59] >> the very bottom
[3:39:00] >> it's on the screen.
[3:39:01] >> So that's what I was saying. If you look
[3:39:03] >> part isn't talking about what we're
[3:39:05] doing now. That's talking about how it
[3:39:06] would be.
[3:39:06] >> So there'll be a process to bring it
[3:39:08] back
[3:39:08] >> next. Correct. And then the third thing
[3:39:11] just highlighted as you were making me
[3:39:13] scroll is isn't don't we have that
[3:39:15] anything going into the historic gateway
[3:39:17] goes back to planning commission?
[3:39:18] Jessica,
[3:39:20] >> remind me of that approval process.
[3:39:22] >> Again, this is why I think waiting until
[3:39:25] we have this final plan. We were going
[3:39:28] to look at that authority being
[3:39:30] different.
[3:39:31] >> Okay. But for now, just to understand
[3:39:33] what this is, if we don't we if we have
[3:39:35] things in and I'm sorry if Ryan's still
[3:39:37] on. If we have things in the historic
[3:39:39] gateway, doesn't it have a like a
[3:39:41] two-step process or am I misreplanning
[3:39:44] commission first and they're they make
[3:39:46] the recommendation and then city council
[3:39:48] has final on gateway historic.
[3:39:50] >> Chrissy, the whole thing you're bringing
[3:39:52] up what doesn't make sense to me is
[3:39:54] everything you've brought up would be
[3:39:56] for future storage unit proposals.
[3:39:59] >> Any storage unit.
[3:40:00] >> No, I know. But this is why none of this
[3:40:03] makes sense. The whole basis of this is
[3:40:05] that there's not going to be any other
[3:40:06] ones. they can't fit on a five acre lot
[3:40:09] or a under three or one mile away and
[3:40:11] we're putting in all these criteria that
[3:40:13] supposedly we're never going to have to
[3:40:14] use because there's only going to be one
[3:40:15] of these.
[3:40:17] It just makes no sense to me. We're
[3:40:18] like, okay, like we're writing something
[3:40:21] for something we're saying is never
[3:40:22] going to happen, but we're making all
[3:40:24] these rules with this one.
[3:40:25] >> Well, we did it for Burgess Orchards.
[3:40:27] Well, I just wanted to that was my
[3:40:29] thought too is, you know, just being
[3:40:32] concerned about
[3:40:33] >> when other businesses have come in and
[3:40:36] looked at changing conditional use and even to the extent of selling a loaf
[3:40:41] of bread, like council was very
[3:40:43] concerned about the impact that would
[3:40:45] have on our community. And so I I'm
[3:40:48] looking at this as the impact on our
[3:40:51] community. um you know, we just need to
[3:40:53] take it very seriously if we think just
[3:40:56] expanding selling bread is going to harm
[3:40:59] us. This probably could be pretty
[3:41:01] detrimental to our long-term future.
[3:41:04] >> I would just say back to my comments
[3:41:06] about understanding the process that we
[3:41:08] are trying we're trying to create new
[3:41:10] ordinances. I just want to be very clear
[3:41:12] about what are the steps and who gets to
[3:41:14] review what and maybe I don't understand
[3:41:17] all the um
[3:41:19] all the things that are going on behind
[3:41:21] the scenes because other ordinances
[3:41:23] apply but it would be great to have Ryan
[3:41:25] walk us through that at least um so that
[3:41:28] we know like is it going back to
[3:41:30] planning commission is it coming back to
[3:41:31] us what are those steps if this to your
[3:41:35] point I understand like we're talking
[3:41:37] about one but nevertheless the
[3:41:39] ordinances have to stand
[3:41:40] >> are going to come back ordinances will
[3:41:41] stand for 50 years as well as the
[3:41:43] building. So, they have to be clear.
[3:41:45] >> That's all I'm saying. You understand?
[3:41:46] >> Yeah. Okay,
[3:41:47] >> great points.
[3:41:48] >> Um, the only other thing I wanted to say
[3:41:49] about I didn't mention the transition,
[3:41:51] but I had the thought again, we have a
[3:41:53] lot of residents that have a lot of junk
[3:41:55] in their backyard and this is all
[3:41:57] enclosed. So, I thought this was a step
[3:41:58] forward, but as a residence, I store
[3:42:01] things and I have a garage. So to me,
[3:42:04] it's a good transition because I'm
[3:42:06] already now we're storing things for a
[3:42:08] fee and we're using a garage for a fee
[3:42:12] versus a commercial use. That's
[3:42:14] completely something that doesn't really
[3:42:15] happen in a residential area as is
[3:42:17] pointed out to me over and over again
[3:42:19] because of purchase orders. But
[3:42:20] nevertheless, I think it's a good
[3:42:22] transition. All right, that's my final
[3:42:24] comment.
[3:42:24] >> I have one last thing because it's
[3:42:25] related to what we've talked about and
[3:42:27] both Sarah and Andrew have brought this
[3:42:28] up and I just would like Steve your
[3:42:31] input.
[3:42:32] Um, it's it's fairly rare that an
[3:42:34] ordinance is perfect and sometimes they
[3:42:36] need amendment and sometimes we have
[3:42:38] unanticipated
[3:42:40] desirable uses like the orchard or the
[3:42:42] proposal for a farm stand that was
[3:42:44] denied but it was at least a proposal to
[3:42:46] expand their use there and have a farm
[3:42:48] stand. Um would you just explain
[3:42:52] briefly that is a standard practice to
[3:42:56] have ordinance amendments as new um new
[3:43:01] things come up in a city? This isn't out of the ordinary is it
[3:43:09] to amend your code as new as new
[3:43:12] >> processes come up or changes need to be
[3:43:14] made. Well, it's not it's not out of the
[3:43:17] ordinary for someone to request a text
[3:43:20] amendment to allow them to do what
[3:43:21] they're proposing to do if the ordinance
[3:43:24] doesn't currently allow it. That happens
[3:43:27] all the time. If somebody requests a
[3:43:29] reszone because they want to be in the
[3:43:31] business commercial or they want to be
[3:43:33] in a residential zone, those things also
[3:43:36] happen, but they require council
[3:43:38] approval as a legislative decision. So,
[3:43:41] yeah, I I don't know that it's out of
[3:43:43] the ordinary. I I thought where you were
[3:43:45] going with this, council member, was is
[3:43:48] uh
[3:43:50] if if we adopt an ordinance that's not
[3:43:53] perfect, can we later amend it if we
[3:43:56] need to?
[3:43:57] >> Well, both. Yeah, both. But I guess
[3:43:59] >> their concerns were
[3:44:02] is this the right thing? Is this
[3:44:03] something that we should be doing? But
[3:44:04] it's not out of the ordinary for this to
[3:44:06] happen. It's no pretty complex.
[3:44:09] >> That's what I was getting at. Sorry.
[3:44:11] >> Can I ask uh Thank you.
[3:44:12] >> Uh Mr. Doxy. Just a couple last legal
[3:44:15] questions given what the discussion was.
[3:44:18] Brent, you're and this involves with
[3:44:20] Brent what Brent was talking about.
[3:44:21] Brent is into um physical barriers for
[3:44:24] things. They just kind of override laws
[3:44:26] because they're physical whether the law
[3:44:28] is there or not. They stop or allow
[3:44:30] things. Um if these are constructed and
[3:44:34] built with a bathroom and a kitchen, can
[3:44:37] a future city council write code to make
[3:44:41] them livable spaces? Because if I'm
[3:44:43] looking at this design and no one told
[3:44:45] me it was storage units, it looks just
[3:44:47] like a apartment building. Could a
[3:44:50] future say they found a need, we have a
[3:44:53] need now, we want to make this very
[3:44:56] well, it would be high density. Can we make this high density approved?
[3:44:59] Would they be able to do that in the
[3:45:00] future as city council?
[3:45:02] >> Of course.
[3:45:03] >> Yes.
[3:45:04] >> Well, I don't know.
[3:45:05] >> But but that could happen with anything.
[3:45:07] the the council could decide do you want
[3:45:09] to have multifamily housing where there
[3:45:12] currently is single family housing.
[3:45:14] >> Well, can you not see that the jump is a
[3:45:16] lot smaller given that there's a
[3:45:17] bathroom, a small space and a kitchen in
[3:45:20] a area that would never be built that
[3:45:22] small. I guess the way I look at it is
[3:45:23] the intended use, which would be a
[3:45:27] storage area with like what this
[3:45:28] gentleman said to store his car
[3:45:30] collection. And that if you're going to
[3:45:32] go and work on your car, they're going
[3:45:35] to have to go to the bathroom unless you
[3:45:36] want people peeing on the street.
[3:45:37] >> No, I I understand, mayor. It's it's
[3:45:39] more like that. It's more like a not a
[3:45:41] very far leap to convert these into
[3:45:43] living spaces. That's all I'm trying to
[3:45:45] say. And want to know at what ease is
[3:45:47] that process to do?
[3:45:48] >> I think John McCay uses this term in
[3:45:50] planning commission. density right now.
[3:45:53] >> So what would it I guess the question is
[3:45:55] what would it take so we know what would
[3:45:56] it take to convert these to livable
[3:45:58] spaces?
[3:45:58] >> You would have to reszone for higher
[3:46:01] density housing. Right now the highest
[3:46:03] density you can have is quarter acre
[3:46:04] lots and with an overlay you can have
[3:46:06] eight per acre. This would be over what
[3:46:09] is currently allowed. So they would need
[3:46:11] a zone change.
[3:46:12] >> So it just be a a three vote a three.
[3:46:15] Well, another another way to look at
[3:46:17] that is I think the ordinance says
[3:46:20] proposed and I I confess that I haven't
[3:46:23] scrutinized it. I've looked through it,
[3:46:25] >> but the ordinance as proposed I believe
[3:46:28] says that this development and any other
[3:46:31] similar development uh that meets the
[3:46:33] criteria for for this purpose would be
[3:46:37] subject to a development agreement and
[3:46:39] CCNRs. Okay. So if the city wanted to
[3:46:43] put in the development agreement that no residential use, it's already
[3:46:48] proposed in the ordinance, but if they
[3:46:51] put that in the agreement, it would be
[3:46:53] much more difficult to
[3:46:54] >> Okay.
[3:46:55] >> So instead of just changing the
[3:46:57] ordinance in the future, they'd have to
[3:46:59] also amend the development agreement
[3:47:02] with the with the consent of the other
[3:47:05] party.
[3:47:07] >> Okay, let's wrap this up. Let's finish
[3:47:10] the discussions. Night is getting long.
[3:47:11] We still have two large items. Nash,
[3:47:15] thank you so much for your time. Again,
[3:47:16] I really appreciate your efforts. If you
[3:47:18] guys have any questions between now and
[3:47:20] a couple weeks, um you guys know how to
[3:47:22] get a hold of them. And then if you
[3:47:25] >> I'm around. I'm not hard to find. So, if
[3:47:27] you have any questions, we'd be happy to
[3:47:29] chat. I just, you know, just reiterating
[3:47:32] I think um this site is is a good use.
[3:47:36] We are excited to be, you know, taking
[3:47:39] it. We do a lot of development and a lot
[3:47:40] of different things. Um, so we've we've
[3:47:42] stared at this in a million different
[3:47:44] ways and we feel like this is the best
[3:47:45] use. We live close. We're excited to
[3:47:48] build something I think is good. So,
[3:47:50] thank you so much for your time.
[3:47:51] >> Appreciate it.
[3:47:52] >> Okay. Okay.
[3:47:53] >> Um, we're going to move on to action
[3:47:54] items, but I will
[3:47:56] >> Can I make a motion to move action item
[3:47:58] B ahead of action item A, so the very
[3:48:01] patient gentlemen here to discuss the
[3:48:03] fire station don't have to wait any
[3:48:05] longer? the four gentlemen.
[3:48:08] >> I'll second that.
[3:48:09] >> Okay. So, moved by um Councilwoman
[3:48:12] Blackwell, seconded by Councilman
[3:48:13] Rummler to move item B in front of A
[3:48:17] under um section six. Um can I get a
[3:48:21] roll call vote?
[3:48:24] >> Chrissy Hanaman, yes.
[3:48:26] >> Andrew Young, yes. Brent Rley, yes.
[3:48:28] >> Jessica Sme, yes. Sarah Blackwell, yes.
[3:48:30] Okay, we will be working on the fire
[3:48:34] station edition project budget.
[3:48:37] Gentlemen from
[3:48:39] Babcock Design
[3:48:41] Navigate and search please
[3:48:45] if you guys can come up to the podium.
[3:48:47] Um
[3:48:49] so this is the team that we've been
[3:48:51] working with. Um Chad Littlewood um from
[3:48:55] Babcock Design has been our designer and
[3:48:58] architect.
[3:49:02] And then now I'm forgetting everybody's
[3:49:05] name.
[3:49:06] Travis
[3:49:08] >> got Preston Reading from Nate.
[3:49:10] >> Navigate
[3:49:11] >> got Rich uh
[3:49:15] >> HCO
[3:49:16] and
[3:49:18] >> Blake
[3:49:19] >> from Webby. That's what we hear in our
[3:49:22] meetings.
[3:49:23] And uh yeah, we have Chad here. So, um
[3:49:27] we're kind of down to the final making
[3:49:29] some final decisions um so we can move
[3:49:31] forward and finalized construction
[3:49:33] drawings for the fire station. And um
[3:49:37] you know, because of cost, it was
[3:49:38] important that we bring this back to the
[3:49:40] council to make some final decisions
[3:49:43] based on um cost estimating that has
[3:49:46] been done. um as this project has uh
[3:49:51] moved forward and I would I would call
[3:49:54] this front row right here like a team of
[3:49:56] all stars. They've been awesome and
[3:49:59] they've done put a lot of work into
[3:50:01] costing this out and I think the best
[3:50:04] thing with the time is to turn the time
[3:50:06] over to them and they'll go through some
[3:50:08] things and explain what we're looking
[3:50:10] for tonight.
[3:50:24] It's a public meeting, so you shouldn't
[3:50:26] have back.
[3:50:28] Just like
[3:50:34] my name's Rich Hanskoff uh with CIRC um
[3:50:37] pre-construction
[3:50:39] >> estimating um web
[3:50:44] Blake uh assist me in that effort. Uh
[3:50:46] we've been working with uh Babcock and
[3:50:51] Nate and also
[3:50:53] Shane and the city uh in budgeting for
[3:50:57] the uh remodel in addition to the fire
[3:51:00] station. Uh we've taken a lot of effort.
[3:51:04] We love public safety, public safety
[3:51:07] projects. They're important uh to the
[3:51:10] communities that they're in. Um
[3:51:12] unfortunately there's always finite
[3:51:15] budgets that need to be met and um quite
[3:51:19] often the need far exceeds
[3:51:23] uh what the budgets are. Um the the
[3:51:27] process here is taking the the uh
[3:51:29] facility that we've already got
[3:51:32] and uh or that you already have and
[3:51:35] making it viable to be used for the
[3:51:39] foreseeable future.
[3:51:41] uh Chief U has a real need um in
[3:51:46] augmenting the facility and bringing it
[3:51:49] up to current standards um public safety
[3:51:53] standards that uh allow for the access
[3:51:57] and also for the crews to be not only
[3:52:00] comfortable but be successful in their
[3:52:03] mission.
[3:52:04] So in uh uh analyzing the project uh
[3:52:08] going through uh the project as it now
[3:52:11] is constituted and where we've come to
[3:52:15] we've spent an immense amount of time
[3:52:17] doing what I call value engineering.
[3:52:20] There was a program identified um using
[3:52:24] the app bay that is there converting the
[3:52:27] existing facility uh into a community
[3:52:31] center and then making a provision for
[3:52:34] the fire station or the fire house with
[3:52:37] the new dormitories, their meeting
[3:52:39] rooms, um the day rooms and their
[3:52:43] dormitories.
[3:52:45] Um right now the budget is um a little
[3:52:50] in excess of what had been issued as
[3:52:54] part of the RFP.
[3:52:56] Um we have looked at a number of
[3:52:59] elements to be able to try and reduce
[3:53:02] that amount.
[3:53:04] Um, and what Chad is going to be able to
[3:53:07] share with us is where we've come to in
[3:53:11] that design process and assisting in
[3:53:14] that uh budget.
[3:53:16] >> Sorry,
[3:53:17] >> budgeting effort. Are we able to go?
[3:53:19] >> Well, it's looks like a fun video game.
[3:53:22] >> Looks like a football.
[3:53:25] >> You can keep
[3:53:25] >> There we go.
[3:53:27] >> A playbook.
[3:53:30] And please um ask any questions as I go.
[3:53:34] I I know that what uh you're seeing
[3:53:37] there's a lot of information here. Um
[3:53:40] but we've tried to meet the mission of
[3:53:43] the fire station. I want to describe
[3:53:45] something to you that's really
[3:53:47] difficult. Um when you've got this
[3:53:50] finite budget and we've got a mixeduse
[3:53:55] fire station. Um, we we've got a a
[3:53:58] community center that's claiming a
[3:54:01] significant portion of the budget. And
[3:54:04] I'm not suggesting it's not a needed
[3:54:07] element. It it it's something that the
[3:54:09] community needs. There's a reason that
[3:54:10] we've designed it, but there have to be
[3:54:14] some choices between what's available
[3:54:18] and where it is spent. So whether we
[3:54:21] spend it on the community room or in the
[3:54:23] fire station, it's kind of hard to
[3:54:26] divide that
[3:54:28] other than don't do the community room
[3:54:30] or don't do the fire station in order to
[3:54:33] save some money. So those aren't real
[3:54:34] viable. So you'll notice that right now
[3:54:37] in the budget that you're looking at
[3:54:40] and there's a number of value
[3:54:43] engineering items that we can go through
[3:54:46] and and we can talk about the detail,
[3:54:47] but where I'd like to go is to the
[3:54:49] bottom line. If you'll notice, we have
[3:54:51] the current cost estimate saying that
[3:54:53] we're about $5.2 million.
[3:54:57] We've also, you'll notice in the green
[3:55:00] column accepted,
[3:55:02] we're saying that there are value
[3:55:04] engineering items that we're willing to
[3:55:06] change in the design to allow us to save
[3:55:09] money. And you'll notice that the ones
[3:55:11] that we've selected are eating a adding
[3:55:14] up to about $289,000,
[3:55:19] which is pulling the overall budget to
[3:55:22] 4.9.
[3:55:25] Now if you look at that some of those
[3:55:26] items for example
[3:55:29] 1B
[3:55:31] the design was planning on providing a
[3:55:33] standing seam metal roof over the entire
[3:55:35] building. This is hybrid. We're saying
[3:55:37] we're going to do portion. We're going
[3:55:39] to get roof but we're going to save
[3:55:41] enough that we can save a little bit
[3:55:43] money towards the total. Secondly, we're
[3:55:46] going to add some um well, that's
[3:55:49] actually in going the wrong direction,
[3:55:51] but we're going to add some additional
[3:55:52] glazing in the day room of the community
[3:55:55] center. We're going to save um epoxy
[3:55:59] flooring. We're not going to do that in
[3:56:01] the at bay in an attempt to save money.
[3:56:05] We're also going to um have the city
[3:56:08] purchase the generator on state contract
[3:56:11] so that can save the markup and not pay
[3:56:14] us for that. Also going to uh red reduce
[3:56:20] uh furring on CMU walls in the gymnasium
[3:56:24] area.
[3:56:26] Reduce uh wood wall panels on the gable
[3:56:30] ends.
[3:56:31] >> Can you explain what furring is?
[3:56:33] >> I'm sorry.
[3:56:33] >> Sorry. I just was curious what furring
[3:56:35] is.
[3:56:36] >> Furring is um you know when you have a
[3:56:38] cement wall or a concrete wall and you
[3:56:42] put wood strips on it and then you put
[3:56:45] the drywall on the face of it so it
[3:56:47] covers the brick up.
[3:56:48] >> So what we're saying is in the gymnasium
[3:56:50] area these guys are great with just
[3:56:52] being exposed brick
[3:56:54] >> and we'll just leave it exposed.
[3:56:57] Mhm.
[3:56:57] >> Um I think we talked about uh the idea
[3:57:02] that we would uh keep the existing let's
[3:57:05] see would wall panels uh keep the
[3:57:09] existing overhead door. Oh no, I'm
[3:57:11] sorry. Go down dorm sinks rather than
[3:57:14] sinks being in the dorm rooms
[3:57:15] themselves. The dorms have their own
[3:57:18] bathrooms. The sinks would remain in the
[3:57:20] bathrooms, not in the dorm rooms
[3:57:22] themselves. Go ahead.
[3:57:24] >> Sorry. Chad Littlewood with Batpack
[3:57:26] Design.
[3:57:28] I'm wondering if it's most helpful. I
[3:57:30] don't mean to interrupt, but I think in
[3:57:32] essence, we've been working towards a
[3:57:34] project and working towards a goal with
[3:57:36] integration of comments from both the
[3:57:37] council, the public, the city, the
[3:57:39] project team, etc. The budget came in
[3:57:42] during SDS, schmatic design, and now
[3:57:44] we're through design development DDS and
[3:57:46] we got an updated budget. The
[3:57:48] information that we got to get said
[3:57:49] budget, excuse me, estimate has grown
[3:57:51] exponentially. So, it's much more
[3:57:52] concrete and much more realistic.
[3:57:55] But because we want to be diligent and
[3:57:56] it's public money, we recognize that we
[3:57:59] came up with a number and there's things
[3:58:00] on the table that we wanted to bring to
[3:58:02] both the fire team and the project team
[3:58:04] to say, do we want to entertain this for
[3:58:06] saving additional costs?
[3:58:08] And so that's where we're at. And so
[3:58:10] even with the additional cost savings
[3:58:11] that we're proposing, there's decisions
[3:58:13] that go along with it because we
[3:58:14] recognize there's a bucket of need to
[3:58:16] have and a bucket of would want to have.
[3:58:19] The need to have needs to stay there.
[3:58:21] The want to have is up for conversation.
[3:58:23] So are these all would want to have?
[3:58:25] >> So these are all things that
[3:58:27] >> one through 19.
[3:58:28] >> If I'm speaking for the for the project
[3:58:30] team, there are a lot of people in this
[3:58:31] room. These are all items that the
[3:58:33] project team is comfortable proposing as
[3:58:36] um
[3:58:37] >> reductions,
[3:58:38] >> gaining additional dollars back or
[3:58:39] reductions. Exactly. With the one
[3:58:41] exception uh for council that we've been
[3:58:44] talking about the additional windows on
[3:58:45] that south side of the community room.
[3:58:46] That that's something that's not
[3:58:47] currently in design. That's an actually
[3:58:48] an ad for the project.
[3:58:51] >> And you'll notice go through those
[3:58:53] >> and and we can and you'll not notice
[3:58:54] even in the list in the rejected list
[3:58:57] you you can see there's a couple items
[3:58:59] we've just said that that's beyond what
[3:59:01] we want to do. In fact, during our work
[3:59:04] sessions, there were some ideas on some
[3:59:07] changes within the dorm rooms, and we
[3:59:10] determined that that was more than we
[3:59:13] would want to produce uh in saving.
[3:59:16] Well, not producing saving that's
[3:59:18] stepping further than we'd like to. The
[3:59:21] missionritical nature of this facility
[3:59:24] says that the firefighters need those to
[3:59:28] meet their mission.
[3:59:30] So, are we trying to trim 200,000
[3:59:33] $211,797
[3:59:40] » from the 5 million 211?
[3:59:42] >> Yes.
[3:59:42] >> Yeah. To get to $5 million. That's
[3:59:45] correct.
[3:59:45] >> Or we can add $80,000. We have 80,000
[3:59:48] basically if we want to hit 5 million or
[3:59:51] we can do a budget adjustment like we
[3:59:54] are doing later. I mean, what are all of
[3:59:57] our options?
[3:59:58] >> Yeah. Um Preston, do you mind just
[4:00:00] covering the other part of the cost just
[4:00:02] so it's all on the table here?
[4:00:04] >> Yeah, absolutely. So So there's there's
[4:00:07] kind of two buckets right here. Um
[4:00:09] there's the construction costs or the
[4:00:10] hard costs like we call them and then
[4:00:12] there's the soft costs which are kind of
[4:00:14] the administrative costs that um the
[4:00:16] owner typically handles. So that's like
[4:00:19] appliances, that's the architect's fees,
[4:00:21] that's our fees. Um, and so that bucket
[4:00:25] of money actually is about $900,000 that we currently have. So that would be
[4:00:30] on top of that 5.2 right now. So in
[4:00:34] excess, we're looking at about 800 is
[4:00:36] what we're looking at.
[4:00:38] >> So sorry, you're you're I was going to
[4:00:41] wait till the end, but just so he
[4:00:42] doesn't get up. So right now total that
[4:00:45] first page is 5.2 and then there's an
[4:00:48] additional 900 on the 5.2. So we're at
[4:00:50] about 6 something. 6.1 right about there
[4:00:53] >> total. Okay, I'll save the other
[4:00:55] questions till after.
[4:00:56] >> Yep. And again, that's that 5.2 is is
[4:00:58] currently our our construction costs and again through the design phase we
[4:01:03] had SD drawings or schematic drawings
[4:01:06] come out um that sent over to CIRC uh
[4:01:09] they gave us a budget and we went
[4:01:11] through and did kind of a deval
[4:01:12] engineering uh session. Actually we did
[4:01:15] multiple sessions there. We got we felt
[4:01:17] pretty comfortable at that stage. We
[4:01:19] continue with design. We got to design
[4:01:21] development and that was a couple weeks
[4:01:23] ago. That was sent over for another
[4:01:25] budget and those numbers came back
[4:01:28] unfortunately a little bit higher than
[4:01:29] what we were hoping.
[4:01:31] >> And please understand that that process
[4:01:35] is not the final bid. What we're talking
[4:01:38] about is managing the design and making
[4:01:41] sure what goes out to the market.
[4:01:43] Ultimately, we will go to the market and
[4:01:46] ask for subcontractor bids in every
[4:01:48] category.
[4:01:50] We'll have those um abstracts. We'll
[4:01:53] have the bid results. We'll share those
[4:01:54] with Shane and staff so that we're able
[4:01:57] to review it, make sure we stay within
[4:01:59] budget. Our experience has been very
[4:02:01] good. Currently, the market is um very
[4:02:05] favorable to owner. Uh contractors are
[4:02:08] very eager to get work. Uh price points
[4:02:11] are dropping.
[4:02:13] So we we feel very good about that
[4:02:16] process that we're going to be able to meet that. But the design was so
[4:02:22] close to what we had in budget, we felt
[4:02:24] that these cost savings measures were
[4:02:27] required.
[4:02:29] >> Yeah. So and again just to to kind of
[4:02:32] what we're looking at here the the the
[4:02:34] estimate or the budget that we have come
[4:02:36] back with and again that was with some
[4:02:38] contractor input or subcontractor's
[4:02:40] input. We're at 5.2. If we accept
[4:02:43] everything in that green column, which
[4:02:44] is 289,000, it gets us to that 4.9
[4:02:48] million, but there's still the the soft
[4:02:51] costs that we that we talk about. And
[4:02:52] again, that's that's the appliances,
[4:02:54] that's the administrative fees, um kind
[4:02:57] of everything that the owner is holding
[4:02:58] on on our side. Yeah. So, so that if we
[4:03:02] again, if we accepted all that, the 4.9
[4:03:04] plus the 900, we're sitting about 5.8,
[4:03:07] which is where Yeah. again. And and some
[4:03:11] of these items are are on the table,
[4:03:12] right? Um I think there's three of them
[4:03:15] specifically that I think Chad has some drawings that we can kind of take a
[4:03:19] look at to give you guys a better
[4:03:20] understanding of of what's going on. So,
[4:03:23] >> and just so I'm clear, like our budget
[4:03:26] was 5 million all in.
[4:03:29] >> Yes.
[4:03:30] >> With even the soft cost.
[4:03:31] >> Yeah. All in.
[4:03:32] >> Just
[4:03:34] that's what that's what was approved
[4:03:36] like two or three years ago. Pardon some
[4:03:38] of our questions because we're new.
[4:03:41] >> Yeah.
[4:03:42] >> But we're slightly aware, but I don't
[4:03:44] know what was approved in the past.
[4:03:46] Maybe Jessica or someone could uh
[4:03:48] explain to me.
[4:03:50] >> Yeah. Like very very early estimates. We had planned around um 5 million. Like
[4:03:56] in the current budget year, we have
[4:03:58] three million cash budgeted and then we
[4:04:01] were planning for about a $2 million U
[4:04:04] bond.
[4:04:06] And so, and then we do have a couple
[4:04:09] donations,
[4:04:10] >> right,
[4:04:11] >> that um
[4:04:12] >> the the bank and the really nice former
[4:04:15] mayor.
[4:04:15] >> Yeah. A family. And um so now we're just
[4:04:19] trying to kind of pair things down as
[4:04:22] much as we can and then see if you know
[4:04:25] if we need to there's a couple options.
[4:04:28] This project will we're in one budget
[4:04:31] year. we'll go into FY27 with
[4:04:34] construction and then even a little bit
[4:04:36] into into FY28.
[4:04:39] So, there's options. You know, we could
[4:04:41] budget some funds in a regular budgeting
[4:04:44] um from those next two budget years and
[4:04:45] still bond for u you know, $2 million
[4:04:49] for something like that. We're trying to
[4:04:51] get to a point where we can finish the
[4:04:56] design of the project so we can get it
[4:04:58] out to bid, hopefully take advantage of
[4:05:00] the um hungry contractors right now. Um
[4:05:04] but we just, you know, obviously the
[4:05:07] council's the decision makers on funding
[4:05:11] and so that's why we're back here making
[4:05:13] sure that
[4:05:14] >> how we move forward. So regardless of if
[4:05:16] we just say let's not do anything on
[4:05:18] this, we're still over 800,000. So
[4:05:21] what's that plan? Because to me, this is
[4:05:24] we I just need to understand what the
[4:05:26] plan to cover the 800. That's that's
[4:05:28] where there's some things here that we want to decide. Are they, you know,
[4:05:33] can we take these out or can we make
[4:05:35] these changes
[4:05:37] um to kind of do a little bit kind of
[4:05:40] the final value engineering
[4:05:43] and then um decide, you know, can we
[4:05:46] commit to um providing some funds from
[4:05:49] our next two budget years or is the
[4:05:51] council willing to bond for a little
[4:05:53] more than the 2 million originally
[4:05:56] planned for? or how we want to move
[4:05:58] forward.
[4:05:59] >> Shane, I'm still confused because I you
[4:06:02] and I went over the numbers and then we
[4:06:05] have these four items. So, if we if we
[4:06:08] approve the 5 or if we want to move
[4:06:10] forward with the 5.8, these are included
[4:06:12] or excluded. I'm still not following.
[4:06:17] They list four items just it's glazing,
[4:06:20] eliminate vestibule, community center
[4:06:22] mill work, and other miscellaneous
[4:06:23] items.
[4:06:25] Those are included or excluded from the
[4:06:27] 2.8.
[4:06:29] >> Shane, feel free to step in and go
[4:06:30] anything.
[4:06:32] >> Right now, excluding this document
[4:06:33] entirely, there is a design development
[4:06:36] set of drawings and information that was
[4:06:38] given to the contractor to to price as a
[4:06:40] budget. All that information came in at
[4:06:43] 5.2. That's everything that we're
[4:06:45] planning on, everything that we
[4:06:46] currently have. This is a list of
[4:06:48] information that could potentially
[4:06:49] remove costs from the 5.2.
[4:06:51] >> Oh, okay. So,
[4:06:53] >> so the the difference between the 5.2
[4:06:55] you're seeing and the 4.9 is simply the culmination sum of the accepted
[4:07:01] column of items that we could reduce.
[4:07:04] >> There's items in the blue category, the
[4:07:05] undecided category that we could take
[4:07:06] additional advantage of and take
[4:07:09] >> 61,000 additional from the project.
[4:07:13] >> Okay.
[4:07:13] >> And I apologize.
[4:07:15] >> Thank you.
[4:07:15] >> Too much detail.
[4:07:17] >> Okay. No, that's fine. Um no and to that
[4:07:20] point there's one item like I mentioned
[4:07:22] as an exception and I accepted the green
[4:07:25] column that actually is a additional
[4:07:27] cost to the 5.2 and that's the
[4:07:28] additional windows to the south with the
[4:07:30] structural
[4:07:32] um
[4:07:33] >> here at all.
[4:07:35] >> It is it's included it's just captured
[4:07:36] within that. So it's just making that
[4:07:38] 289,000
[4:07:40] sum within the accepted category not as
[4:07:43] powerful. It would be more in the
[4:07:44] neighborhood of 3 339.
[4:07:47] >> Notice the second item that has a 55.
[4:07:49] >> Oh, I see. I see the negative 50.
[4:07:51] >> There's negative.
[4:07:52] >> It's it's worth saying because you may
[4:07:54] be saying, well, there's there's two big
[4:07:56] numbers on the rejected column that are
[4:07:59] >> that are not being considered as what we
[4:08:01] should take forward.
[4:08:02] >> They've already kind of items 1B, 1 C,
[4:08:05] and 1 A. I said that backwards.
[4:08:06] >> Yeah. The top three are all regarding
[4:08:08] the roof.
[4:08:09] >> Yeah. So, it's
[4:08:10] >> it can't be all all of them. It's one or
[4:08:12] the other. Right.
[4:08:13] >> Well, mayor, do you want us to wait
[4:08:15] while they're
[4:08:15] >> present? So, sorry. Just hold on. So,
[4:08:18] >> if
[4:08:20] for being a spreadsheet girl, I don't
[4:08:21] know why I'm lost, but um line item two
[4:08:25] is a negative. So, that means you've
[4:08:27] removed it from the project.
[4:08:29] >> No, that's an additional cost instead of
[4:08:33] taking away. So, everything in the green
[4:08:35] column is taking away from the $5.2 2
[4:08:38] million except for the glazing in the
[4:08:41] community center. That's an additional
[4:08:43] cost
[4:08:50] » that's construction accounting. Yes.
[4:08:52] What's happening is we're tracking dedu
[4:08:56] >> that choice happens to be an increase
[4:08:58] not a dedu.
[4:08:59] >> Okay. So it's going the opposite
[4:09:00] direction.
[4:09:01] >> If I may,
[4:09:02] >> this is Blake Webster with CIRC. So this
[4:09:05] is a little more simplified version. So,
[4:09:07] first we have the construction costs at
[4:09:10] your 5.2 and as Preston mentioned,
[4:09:13] there's that 900,000 for your soft cost,
[4:09:15] right?
[4:09:15] >> And then there's your total of 6.1.
[4:09:18] >> And now, if we jump over to this other
[4:09:20] tab, this is our value engineering log
[4:09:23] where we are now deducting from that 5.2
[4:09:26] that construction cost and every
[4:09:28] accepted item is we are accepting to
[4:09:30] remove that from the project. So, it's a
[4:09:32] deduct. For example, if we so the 5.2 to
[4:09:35] we budgeted the full metal panel roofs
[4:09:38] everywhere. And if we chose to accept
[4:09:40] item 1B, I'm going to change that to
[4:09:44] accepted.
[4:09:45] >> It changes the So down here we have our
[4:09:48] current cost estimate, but now with the
[4:09:50] accepted item, it's now down to just
[4:09:53] over 5 million. So basically as we go
[4:09:56] through this sheet we mark down which
[4:09:58] items we have accepted to remove and
[4:10:00] it's going to reduce our cost and or we
[4:10:02] can choose to reject them and or choose
[4:10:05] >> one of the value engineering happened to
[4:10:07] be an increase it was an add of
[4:10:09] additional
[4:10:10] >> yeah okay
[4:10:10] >> that added glazing was requested and so
[4:10:13] that's it wasn't incorporated in the
[4:10:15] last drawing set but we understanded
[4:10:17] that it's going to be a necessary
[4:10:18] increase so that's a negative
[4:10:20] >> 1 A B and C what you what you've decided
[4:10:23] to do then is is use
[4:10:27] >> mutually exclusive,
[4:10:28] >> right? No, I understand that. So, what
[4:10:30] the all the what kind of roof are we
[4:10:34] going to have?
[4:10:35] >> You're gonna a hybrid.
[4:10:36] >> Great question.
[4:10:39] >> So, what we end up with is a hybrid roof
[4:10:41] system, standing seam over the day room
[4:10:44] and vestable, and we replace the roof
[4:10:46] over the app bay with asphalt and then
[4:10:49] the flat roof is so the markups. Uh
[4:10:52] yeah, that's great. But to give you an
[4:10:54] idea, when you look at the fire station
[4:10:56] right now, the way that it is, it's
[4:10:59] going to be re-roofed exactly as it is
[4:11:03] with those portions. The new portion of
[4:11:05] the building, we'll get some standing
[4:11:07] seam over the front entry and over the
[4:11:10] day room to give it some architectural
[4:11:12] flare.
[4:11:13] >> Standing seam being asphalt. I'm still
[4:11:15] stuck on the metal.
[4:11:16] >> Metal. Metal. Metal. Standing seam is
[4:11:18] metal.
[4:11:19] >> Okay. So we're getting metal roof on the
[4:11:21] new contractor
[4:11:22] >> and then everything else is remaining.
[4:11:24] >> So originally it was supposed to be all
[4:11:25] metal.
[4:11:26] >> That's what I thought was
[4:11:28] >> so to get the to get the cost down
[4:11:31] they're saying that okay
[4:11:32] >> because that was the biggest item and
[4:11:34] then the rest um these four items
[4:11:39] >> that's the
[4:11:40] >> we are removing those. But Shane, you
[4:11:42] brought these up to say we're removing
[4:11:43] this and we're okay unless we budget for
[4:11:46] and then we add them back and then we go
[4:11:47] up higher.
[4:11:48] >> Yeah. So okay,
[4:11:49] >> because you know that we these things
[4:11:51] are important to us.
[4:11:52] >> So no, my understanding was that the
[4:11:54] roof was going to be in the undecided
[4:11:56] the three that and council was going to
[4:11:58] decide which system they wanted to do
[4:12:01] knowing what the cost savings are and
[4:12:03] making that decision. I think the rest
[4:12:05] of them a lot of it I think um the
[4:12:07] glazing we heard that that was important
[4:12:09] so we said keep that in. Um, if you look
[4:12:12] at like um built-in for um the dorms, we
[4:12:17] said that needed to be kept in because
[4:12:19] even though it's an additional cost in
[4:12:21] the long run, they said that um one of
[4:12:24] the complaints is like, you know, if you
[4:12:27] just get a regular bed, they just break
[4:12:29] so easily that you just have to buy new.
[4:12:31] So, initially it'll be a cost savings,
[4:12:33] but you're going to have to buy it, you
[4:12:34] know, buy another one. And um they were
[4:12:38] saying that the one in Highland, how
[4:12:40] long has that fire station been around?
[4:12:42] >> 18 years.
[4:12:43] They haven't had any of the
[4:12:46] built-ins break. Um so to me, if in the
[4:12:50] long run, it ended up being cheaper to
[4:12:52] keep the built-in um beds and furniture
[4:12:56] for the dorm rooms.
[4:12:58] >> Okay.
[4:12:59] >> And then um the epoxy flooring, we ask,
[4:13:02] you know, the chiefs, is that important
[4:13:04] to you? What, you know, what does that
[4:13:05] look like? And um Cir came up with a
[4:13:09] solution where they would um they would
[4:13:14] kind of um we were going to patch and
[4:13:16] grind it
[4:13:17] >> in the app base or where the fire trucks
[4:13:20] park that obviously it's a concrete
[4:13:22] floor. It's old so there's some
[4:13:25] cracking. We'd route those. We'd recock
[4:13:29] those. We'd clean it. We'd get it up to
[4:13:32] standard. We just wouldn't cover it with
[4:13:34] epoxy. My experience with epoxy and app
[4:13:37] bas is it fails after about 5 to 10
[4:13:39] years anyway. So let's not spend money
[4:13:42] and create a place that you have to
[4:13:44] continually maintain and keep replacing.
[4:13:46] Let's get it down to good concrete
[4:13:49] surface that they can take care of.
[4:13:53] >> So these four items the glazing is would
[4:13:56] cost 50,000. And the eliminate the
[4:13:58] vestable it to keep it would cost
[4:14:01] >> nothing well would cost nothing
[4:14:03] >> above or below the 5.2.
[4:14:05] >> Oh, it's already included.
[4:14:07] >> Correct. To remove it would be a value.
[4:14:09] >> We've rejected that
[4:14:11] >> and the community city mill work is
[4:14:13] we're keeping in this cost.
[4:14:16] >> Okay. These are the things we're
[4:14:17] keeping.
[4:14:18] >> Chrissy.
[4:14:19] >> Okay.
[4:14:20] >> Did we not want to let them finish and
[4:14:21] then go one by one or
[4:14:23] >> Oh, no. I'm just trying. Well, we can. I
[4:14:25] just think it might delay if we okay
[4:14:28] interject on them.
[4:14:28] >> Yeah, it's it's good to wrap your hands
[4:14:30] around what the numbers mean and this is
[4:14:32] part of why there wasn't more detail in
[4:14:34] the staff report.
[4:14:36] >> It's kind of hard to explain on paper. I
[4:14:39] think it takes some verbal explanation
[4:14:41] here, but got it.
[4:14:43] >> I didn't mean to cut you off. It's just
[4:14:44] >> No, Andrew likes to go in order, so
[4:14:47] we'll wait.
[4:14:48] >> Okay. Can I Can I explain real quick?
[4:14:50] >> Yeah.
[4:14:50] >> And I'm fine to do whichever is best for
[4:14:52] the council.
[4:14:53] It's it's slightly confusing because
[4:14:54] there is a one master budget that says
[4:14:56] this is what the total is based on the
[4:14:57] drawings. But we're looking into the
[4:14:59] future and knowing that if that's the
[4:15:00] number that is when we do the final
[4:15:01] bidding, we're going to have a problem.
[4:15:02] So rather than address it when we have
[4:15:04] final drawings and there's been a lot
[4:15:05] more progress and work, we're trying to
[4:15:08] allocate determine the path forward now
[4:15:10] so we can make the progress forward more
[4:15:12] appropriately. So the numbers you're
[4:15:15] looking on the screen now are whatever
[4:15:17] column we decide to put them in to
[4:15:18] Mayor's Point will determine whether
[4:15:20] that 5.2 two goes up, goes down, or
[4:15:23] stays the same.
[4:15:25] >> That's the easiest way to put. So,
[4:15:27] everybody
[4:15:29] >> thing if you guys, this might bring all
[4:15:31] of this together just a little bit.
[4:15:33] Maybe not. Um,
[4:15:35] >> you talked about the the bidding,
[4:15:38] >> but can you just talk to the guaranteed
[4:15:40] maximum price and what?
[4:15:42] >> Yeah. So to share with you what we do in
[4:15:45] this process in construction management
[4:15:48] is giving the engineers and architects
[4:15:52] feedback in cost while they're
[4:15:54] designing. So Chad doesn't have to
[4:15:56] redesign and redesign and redesign to
[4:15:58] try and hit a budget. What happens next
[4:16:01] is we get him to a point that we're
[4:16:04] comfortable looking forecasting what the
[4:16:06] budget's going to be. He completes the
[4:16:09] design and then we go back out to the
[4:16:11] market to the subcontractors and bid the
[4:16:16] entire package
[4:16:17] >> competitively.
[4:16:18] >> We come back with bids, multiple bids in
[4:16:21] every trade category, concrete, masonry,
[4:16:24] framing, roofing, drywall. We have a
[4:16:28] complete comparison, multiple bids in
[4:16:31] each one that we share with Shane, with
[4:16:34] the team to see how the bid went. At
[4:16:37] that point, we get to a total. That's
[4:16:40] when we finally get to the guaranteed
[4:16:42] maximum price. We make recommendations
[4:16:45] on which trades are going to be ordered
[4:16:48] or awarded the contract. Again, in those
[4:16:51] same trades, it adds up to a total and
[4:16:54] that becomes the guaranteed maximum
[4:16:55] price. So, we're not suggesting that
[4:16:57] this is the guaranteed maximum price.
[4:17:00] What we're doing is we're assuring
[4:17:01] ourselves that we're forecasting enough
[4:17:04] budget to build what we bid.
[4:17:12] » Okay. Does everybody kind of understand?
[4:17:15] And if we do, we can move forward with
[4:17:17] questions.
[4:17:19] Are we ready for that point?
[4:17:21] >> Mayor, sorry to interrupt. Is there a
[4:17:22] value in seeing any of the diagrams that
[4:17:24] went along with some of these cost
[4:17:25] estimates to put
[4:17:26] >> Yes. I'm sorry. I didn't know if you had
[4:17:27] them or not. If you do, that would be
[4:17:28] >> I do if it's helpful. I didn't do them
[4:17:30] for everyone. I did them for the
[4:17:30] significant ones.
[4:17:31] >> That's great.
[4:17:32] >> I would like to see the roof if you have
[4:17:34] it.
[4:17:34] >> Absolutely.
[4:17:36] >> And then is the idea to go through each
[4:17:37] of those items one at a time and discuss
[4:17:39] them or
[4:17:41] >> not? Not every single one.
[4:17:43] >> Feel free to ask any questions of the
[4:17:45] full list and I'll go back to the list
[4:17:46] at the end to to have it as reference.
[4:17:49] Um, so pardon the crude colors, but it's
[4:17:52] just easy to distinguish. So if you're
[4:17:54] familiar, the the yellow massings on the
[4:17:57] page, those are the existing structure.
[4:18:00] The current plan right now, well, let me
[4:18:02] back up. The 5.2
[4:18:04] suggests that both the existing
[4:18:06] structure and all the new construction
[4:18:09] was to receive a standing seam metal
[4:18:11] roof.
[4:18:12] And councilwoman, that was for your
[4:18:14] question. It's a metal formed roof and
[4:18:16] the ridges all come together and the
[4:18:18] seams that slap up so all the sloping
[4:18:20] goes in one direction.
[4:18:22] >> What we're proposing now as a potential
[4:18:24] value item is that everything you see in
[4:18:26] yellow will be re-roofed with asphalt
[4:18:28] shingling. It's currently asphalt
[4:18:29] shingling and that all the new
[4:18:31] construction in the green would also be
[4:18:33] asphalt shingling much much less
[4:18:36] expensive formula form. And the blue
[4:18:39] items which would be over the main
[4:18:40] entrance vestibule and the day room and
[4:18:44] dining room of the fire station would be
[4:18:45] the standing seam to have a more
[4:18:47] elevated look.
[4:18:48] >> Excellent.
[4:18:49] >> Okay. I'm not going in order of the
[4:18:52] slides because they're slightly
[4:18:53] different, but just as a comparison,
[4:18:55] this is the current exterior elevation
[4:18:57] of the west elevation which is the
[4:19:01] community center. Uh this is the current
[4:19:03] addition glazing we're showing on the
[4:19:05] corner. This is obviously the vestibule.
[4:19:07] These windows are the existing punched
[4:19:09] openings that we're not changing.
[4:19:12] This is the Oops, excuse me. This is
[4:19:14] also the 5.2
[4:19:17] version of the of that south elevation
[4:19:19] of the community room center. You can
[4:19:20] see the vestule in the foreground there.
[4:19:22] Um those are existing punched openings.
[4:19:24] What we've been asked to do as a request
[4:19:26] is to increase those to what's shown on
[4:19:28] the page here with just added additional
[4:19:30] glazing there. Um, another item just to
[4:19:34] bounce on this page, both on the north
[4:19:37] facing and south facing elevation of the
[4:19:39] apparatus bay, the gable portion, which
[4:19:41] is, if you're not familiar, gable
[4:19:42] portion is essentially that triangular
[4:19:44] area below the roof. We're recladding
[4:19:46] that in a faux wood system on both north
[4:19:49] and south that's included in the 5.2. uh
[4:19:52] option was at least on the south side
[4:19:54] away from the the public facing street
[4:19:57] is that we would just keep that exposed
[4:19:59] material as it is now and refinish it
[4:20:01] with it's called ephus basically a
[4:20:03] stucco
[4:20:06] » that one,00300
[4:20:22] Good. Okay. Next couple items here.
[4:20:25] >> $15,300
[4:20:28] » was the savings.
[4:20:32] >> Okay. Small item here. This is the
[4:20:33] street facing uh north elevation. The
[4:20:37] day room and dining room kitchen windows
[4:20:39] here. In a previous design, it we felt
[4:20:41] it was important to increase the glazing
[4:20:42] there. What you're seeing in the
[4:20:43] background. What we're proposing if we
[4:20:45] need to is to decrease the size of the
[4:20:47] glazing to what would be shown in that
[4:20:49] red boundary. That price savings
[4:20:54] is $7,500.
[4:21:00] » And when you say glazing, is that
[4:21:02] literally like
[4:21:03] >> Sorry.
[4:21:04] >> Glass walls.
[4:21:05] >> Yeah. Windows.
[4:21:06] >> Thank you.
[4:21:08] >> Uh last couple here. The yellow area is
[4:21:11] what Rich was referring to previously in
[4:21:13] the apparatus bay. We had a price for
[4:21:15] that to fully replace or not replace but
[4:21:17] epoxy that entire floor and make it new.
[4:21:19] Um the new ve option would be to just
[4:21:22] patch and replace that as needed. So not
[4:21:25] a complete redo.
[4:21:27] Um this is I believe on the undecided
[4:21:30] column councilman just for the purpose
[4:21:32] of function.
[4:21:34] As it stands right now the community
[4:21:36] room center has an added new
[4:21:37] construction vestibule. My screen will
[4:21:39] update. There it goes. Um one of the
[4:21:42] items that's undecided just because it
[4:21:43] is such a functional change is to remove
[4:21:46] said vestibule. Um,
[4:21:49] we can talk semantics if need be, but
[4:21:51] there's some pluses and minuses, but I
[4:21:52] go to that that are beyond just cost.
[4:21:55] And then last, we talked about um some
[4:21:58] portions of the wall on the interior
[4:21:59] because the exterior new construction is
[4:22:01] all out of block. That's the structural
[4:22:03] element that's made out of it. Unless we
[4:22:05] fur it out, we'll have exposed block on
[4:22:08] the interior. Um, being the nature of
[4:22:10] the station and some of the functions,
[4:22:11] we're actually okay with that in some
[4:22:12] areas. So, we tried to strip it down
[4:22:14] where we could.
[4:22:16] So the red area there represents uh stud
[4:22:18] furring walls that would be removed from
[4:22:20] the project.
[4:22:21] >> That's the gymnasium area anyway. So
[4:22:24] that's where the correct exercise
[4:22:26] equipment is
[4:22:30] » representation
[4:22:32] >> that doesn't affect any of the um energy
[4:22:34] efficiency to remove the frame.
[4:22:36] >> No, because we've got the insulation is
[4:22:38] actually on the outside of the wall. Oh,
[4:22:41] >> the the way that the envelopes are
[4:22:42] working in buildings now that all the
[4:22:45] insulation is pushed to the outside of
[4:22:46] the wall, it's kind of interesting. It
[4:22:49] creates the
[4:22:50] >> the due point on the outside wall. It's
[4:22:52] more efficient.
[4:22:54] >> Interesting.
[4:22:54] >> Were you going to use as far as the
[4:22:56] vestibule?
[4:22:58] >> You said there were other considerations
[4:22:59] outside of cost
[4:23:02] >> in the architectural design. I Yeah, I
[4:23:04] think so.
[4:23:05] >> Just Oh, just as far as a aesthetics.
[4:23:07] >> No, not just that. So, in my mind, it's
[4:23:10] difficult taking an existing building
[4:23:11] that is what is there currently and
[4:23:14] trying to adapt it with that of an
[4:23:16] addition as well and not making it very
[4:23:17] obvious that it's a just an addition
[4:23:20] next to an existing building. We're
[4:23:21] trying to blend the two together. And
[4:23:23] so, that's one element of the community
[4:23:25] center that's new and upgraded to help
[4:23:27] blend the two. So, overall,
[4:23:29] compositionally, I think it adds
[4:23:31] something that is aesthetic. Um there is
[4:23:33] a functional and kind of warmth and uh
[4:23:36] comfort level that comes with having the
[4:23:38] vestule. If without it those doors open
[4:23:40] any type of weather kind of comes right
[4:23:42] into that large community room center
[4:23:44] without kind of a break from the window
[4:23:46] or from the weather.
[4:23:49] Um, and then this kind of gets in
[4:23:51] semantics, but right now the way we have
[4:23:53] it planned with the two separate
[4:23:55] openings within the vestibule, if you
[4:23:57] can see that on screen, those are
[4:23:59] identified based on existing openings to
[4:24:01] help minimize structural costs. There's
[4:24:03] not really a need to have two separate
[4:24:05] openings. So, we could look at something
[4:24:07] else. We could look at as glazing, but
[4:24:10] that's part of it. So, it kind of starts
[4:24:11] opening different doors of what we could
[4:24:13] do if we don't have the vestibule.
[4:24:15] >> Okay.
[4:24:16] Did I read that right? It's about
[4:24:18] $24,000.
[4:24:20] Is it really? Am I misreading that?
[4:24:23] >> Yeah. 23578.
[4:24:25] >> I rounded.
[4:24:26] >> That's correct. Yeah,
[4:24:27] >> that's correct.
[4:24:28] >> Thank you.
[4:24:29] >> And what is the community center mill
[4:24:30] work?
[4:24:33] It's along the east wall like kind of um
[4:24:36] like the c the built-in cabinets
[4:24:39] >> and bookshelves like kind of like for
[4:24:41] the history wall or um
[4:24:43] >> the TVs for the
[4:24:45] >> the TVs and then also for a staging area
[4:24:48] for on the very northeast
[4:24:53] set of mill work. It was um they
[4:24:56] designed a countertop to kind of stage
[4:24:58] the serving area for the lunchons.
[4:25:02] so that it wouldn't take more like we
[4:25:04] wouldn't have to bring out additional
[4:25:05] shles.
[4:25:10] » So, some of the comments that we've, you
[4:25:13] know, had from different council members
[4:25:15] through this last several months of this
[4:25:17] process is, hey, you know, we we really
[4:25:21] would like to end up with a building we
[4:25:23] want. And so,
[4:25:26] again, that's why we're back here. We we
[4:25:28] want to make sure that you get what you
[4:25:30] want. um and make sure that we're
[4:25:33] willing to pay for that product
[4:25:37] basically.
[4:25:40] >> Have you had that same discussion with
[4:25:41] our fire chief?
[4:25:43] >> Yeah. No, they've been in the meetings.
[4:25:44] >> Yeah, they've been
[4:25:45] >> both Chief Beck and Chief
[4:25:47] >> and he's he's getting what he wants and
[4:25:48] needs.
[4:25:49] >> Yeah, we they've agreed. We pulled out
[4:25:52] mill work and used wire racks and all
[4:25:55] kinds of different things and and
[4:25:56] they've been great through that process.
[4:25:59] Um yeah, not not looking for the Taj
[4:26:02] Mahal. They want functional. So I do
[4:26:06] feel it's worth advocating that I've
[4:26:09] designed half a dozen or more fire
[4:26:11] stations layouts and things like that.
[4:26:13] And in terms of a program and flow of
[4:26:16] plan,
[4:26:18] the fire chief has been really
[4:26:20] supportive of a minimal approach and
[4:26:22] making it as functional and compact as
[4:26:24] possible.
[4:26:26] >> Okay. And from the sidebar, from search
[4:26:30] point of view as well, we just completed
[4:26:32] uh our GMP amendment for um Spanish Fork
[4:26:38] um today. As a matter of fact, um
[4:26:42] >> Spanish fork fire
[4:26:44] >> and um
[4:26:48] he
[4:26:49] Chad's absolutely right. what chief's
[4:26:52] been able to do here has been very um
[4:26:56] accommodating.
[4:26:57] Uh understanding that what his mission
[4:27:00] is and what he needs has been really
[4:27:02] great to
[4:27:04] be uh cognizant of budget and where that
[4:27:09] needs to hit but also getting the base
[4:27:12] minimum for his operation and his
[4:27:14] mission.
[4:27:17] Where's the savings on the bay doors?
[4:27:22] Okay, keep
[4:27:27] » is that not on here?
[4:27:29] >> No. Because um
[4:27:30] >> one to to not replace them.
[4:27:32] >> No, no, no, no. Go going from um high
[4:27:35] speed to regular speed on the re-entry
[4:27:38] on the south side. I thought that was a
[4:27:41] >> We took that off. We had that
[4:27:43] >> originally. Okay. Yeah, originally we
[4:27:45] had uh highspeed on the exit door. So
[4:27:48] when they leave to go on call those are
[4:27:50] high speed but when they return it's
[4:27:52] just a normal
[4:27:53] >> regular right.
[4:27:54] >> We had given that some thought to have
[4:27:56] those high speed but because of the
[4:27:58] budget constraint we removed that and
[4:28:00] just went with normal
[4:28:02] >> speed on the re-entry doors.
[4:28:05] >> I remember the conversation happened but
[4:28:07] just at a different time than what
[4:28:08] >> Yeah. So there's a lot of things like
[4:28:10] that that we've already done that just
[4:28:13] seem to make sense with the
[4:28:15] circumstances and everything.
[4:28:21] » Okay. Do you have any questions,
[4:28:22] Chrissy?
[4:28:23] >> I don't have questions for them. I had a previous conversation with Shane. I
[4:28:28] wanted to share unless he's going to
[4:28:30] about the budget.
[4:28:32] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[4:28:34] >> But let everyone else ask their
[4:28:35] questions.
[4:28:36] >> Oh, okay. Where uh Brent, do you want to
[4:28:41] >> No, I don't have any further questions.
[4:28:43] Thanks for your thoughtful approach,
[4:28:45] Chief, and you guys on reducing costs.
[4:28:47] >> Jessica,
[4:28:50] >> mine relates to the budget. It's hard to
[4:28:52] decide where to go on these things
[4:28:54] without knowing
[4:28:56] >> how much funding.
[4:28:57] >> Yeah. Like I need to know the number to
[4:28:59] be able.
[4:28:59] >> So maybe we should talk about that now.
[4:29:01] >> Yeah.
[4:29:02] >> As far as what the bonding cost would
[4:29:04] be. So if we take out a $2 million bond,
[4:29:06] that's a annual fee. Uh it'll be What is
[4:29:09] the bond payment? Is it 150 or is it?
[4:29:11] >> Yeah. So, a 20-year bond at at 4% uh $2
[4:29:16] million is roughly 150,000 a year.
[4:29:21] That's that's a you know, ballpark
[4:29:23] number. Um, and I mean, just looking at
[4:29:28] this, if we were to cut 200,000 off
[4:29:31] somewhere, so it was a bond of 1.8
[4:29:33] million, that payment's about 134,000 a
[4:29:37] year. Um, so you're about roughly 16,000
[4:29:41] difference for
[4:29:42] >> But if you look at it how it would
[4:29:44] impact an average household. So if you
[4:29:47] go to $150,000
[4:29:50] and then you divide that by what we have
[4:29:52] 2,600 homes or is it close or is it
[4:29:56] >> 27? Probably
[4:29:57] >> 2,700.
[4:30:00] » Oh, they don't pay maybe.
[4:30:02] >> But they don't all pay the same amount.
[4:30:04] >> No, but it's a it's relative.
[4:30:05] >> I know.
[4:30:07] >> Uh, okay. Okay, I'm doing it by 2,700
[4:30:09] homes. Sorry. So, the numbers are going
[4:30:10] to be a little bit off. So, that's $55 a
[4:30:14] year per household or if you divide it
[4:30:16] by 12
[4:30:17] >> on average,
[4:30:18] >> that would be $463
[4:30:20] per month per household.
[4:30:24] >> And what you I mean, again, I'm I'm very
[4:30:26] averse to borrow. I'm very averse to
[4:30:28] borrowing money in my personal life. Um,
[4:30:31] but I have been educated about how
[4:30:34] sometimes it's appropriate to bond in
[4:30:36] government funding because it spreads
[4:30:37] the cost out to future res residents and
[4:30:39] not just the cost of the to the current
[4:30:41] res.
[4:30:42] >> Well, and you're only paying for it when
[4:30:43] you're using it, right? When you live in
[4:30:45] the city, if you leave, then you're not
[4:30:47] obligated for those bond payments.
[4:30:50] >> My concern is if we're bonding for this,
[4:30:52] are we potentially also bonding for a
[4:30:54] well and some of our water as well?
[4:30:58] >> Yeah. And so on that, I mean, if we bond
[4:31:02] for water projects, they're looking at
[4:31:04] our water funds. They're looking at our
[4:31:07] water rates and what we bring in and our
[4:31:09] water impact fees. And unless we do
[4:31:12] something totally different than we have
[4:31:13] done in the past for those type
[4:31:15] utilities, it really wouldn't. This is
[4:31:17] proposed as a sales tax bond. So, it'd
[4:31:20] be different different pots of money.
[4:31:22] >> Oh, okay.
[4:31:24] >> Yeah. Um just to I've talked to many
[4:31:27] people about water and they really uh as
[4:31:31] a policy we need to self-fund our own
[4:31:33] because it's an enterprise fund so it's
[4:31:35] business. So if we can't pay for our own
[4:31:37] business costs we're undercharging our
[4:31:39] users so it's completely separate. All
[4:31:42] the money is completely separate from
[4:31:44] this fire station. And so he did point
[4:31:47] out um Shane pointed out that would be a
[4:31:49] $150,000
[4:31:52] um line item in our budget because we
[4:31:54] don't have a sales tax bond, right? It
[4:31:56] would and it would be in the general
[4:31:57] fund. Is that what you were talking
[4:31:59] about?
[4:31:59] >> Y.
[4:32:00] >> So currently to pay for this fire
[4:32:02] station, we've had a $1 million line
[4:32:04] item for a couple of years. So, it's
[4:32:07] actually we'll we'll if we bond, we'll
[4:32:10] have like effectively at least $800,000
[4:32:14] to do something else with than the fire
[4:32:16] station.
[4:32:18] Or another option, Shane, you didn't
[4:32:20] bring it up, was we do have a fund
[4:32:22] balance. And so, um I think I've talked
[4:32:25] to you guys about this. If I haven't, I
[4:32:27] apologize, but we've been looking at
[4:32:29] what is an appropriate fund balance and
[4:32:31] how to measure it and how to what are
[4:32:33] benchmarks for it. And um by all
[4:32:36] measures we have a very very high fund
[4:32:39] balance which could be utilized for the
[4:32:41] entire delta here that we're talking
[4:32:44] about and we don't have to bond more
[4:32:46] than 2 million.
[4:32:47] >> Yeah.
[4:32:49] >> So those are like different like if we the plan was 2 million it's
[4:32:53] 150,000 ongoing and then we use fund
[4:32:55] balance to cover anything that is beyond
[4:32:59] that. So it's not I don't think there's
[4:33:01] like it's a straightforward we have to
[4:33:04] do one thing and that would all be
[4:33:05] decisions like that we'd have to get to
[4:33:07] make at the time.
[4:33:09] >> How much out of the current budget or
[4:33:11] through the bundance balance or bond
[4:33:13] >> or the bonding y
[4:33:15] >> and how do we balance that? I think we
[4:33:17] could probably do some of each.
[4:33:18] >> Yeah. Right.
[4:33:19] >> And then there's a few other little
[4:33:20] factors that we really haven't gotten
[4:33:21] into. There's a design contingency
[4:33:24] that's built in and
[4:33:26] >> we'll let you worry about that later. I
[4:33:27] mean, there's
[4:33:28] >> that's why it's there, right?
[4:33:29] >> Buffers in different places. So,
[4:33:31] >> there's different pots.
[4:33:32] >> Yeah.
[4:33:34] >> To me, um the the cost when when I sat
[4:33:37] down with Shane, I'm like, "Okay, how
[4:33:38] much is this going to cost to to bond
[4:33:40] and how much is that per resident?" kind
[4:33:42] of what Carla's calculation was like to Shane's point, I feel like the last
[4:33:47] time they built this fire station,
[4:33:49] Chief, is it 90s in the '9s?
[4:33:51] >> 96.
[4:33:52] So it's
[4:33:55] help help me with 30 years old and so
[4:33:58] every 30 to 40 years we might redo it.
[4:34:02] So we might as well enjoy like not enjoy
[4:34:04] but we might as well make it what we
[4:34:05] want because you know what I'm saying?
[4:34:08] It's going to last. Maybe not the
[4:34:10] hundredyear mark that that Andrew likes
[4:34:12] to use, but it's going to last. And so I
[4:34:15] feel like um it we we want we have we
[4:34:18] don't have any community center right
[4:34:20] now. we have some donations to make it. So, I do feel like there's
[4:34:25] resources available. Um, and I'm in
[4:34:28] favor of all the of keeping things
[4:34:30] rather than everything you you you
[4:34:33] listed. I think my math is coming out at
[4:34:35] 76,000 for these little things. I
[4:34:37] personally would like to revisit about
[4:34:39] the um the roof, but we're going in
[4:34:42] order, so I'll save that discussion.
[4:34:44] >> Okay. So, you were you stepped out, so
[4:34:46] we had to skip over you. Did you have
[4:34:48] any questions?
[4:34:49] >> Yeah. Well, no, we already went and so
[4:34:51] if you have any questions.
[4:34:52] >> Thank you. I'm sorry I missed parts. Um,
[4:34:56] I don't know if you guys want to close
[4:34:57] your ears for a little bit.
[4:35:00] >> Oh. Oh, man.
[4:35:02] >> Just let's be succinct.
[4:35:03] >> I am. I'm trying to be succinct.
[4:35:06] >> 10:35.
[4:35:06] >> Um,
[4:35:09] what's the square footage of this
[4:35:11] building that you're working on? 11,000
[4:35:13] or 7,000? I know it's hard.
[4:35:16] >> The addition or the new construction?
[4:35:17] >> The addition. I've got I'm amazed what
[4:35:19] AI knows. It knows who you are. It knows
[4:35:21] your business. It knows how much. It
[4:35:23] knows all the plans. It knows everything
[4:35:24] we're talking about right now.
[4:35:28] >> The addition is 5,400 ft. Yeah.
[4:35:30] >> 5,400 square feet. Well, I got that
[4:35:31] wrong. So, do you know what the price
[4:35:34] per square foot is right now that we're
[4:35:36] budgeting? Like,
[4:35:37] >> it's on one of the spreadsheets. So if
[4:35:39] it's regardless of what it is, I do want
[4:35:41] to clarify though because typically a
[4:35:44] price per square foot is a blended rate
[4:35:46] over the entire square footage of a
[4:35:47] building,
[4:35:48] >> right? I'm just trying to get ballparks,
[4:35:51] >> but it's it's necessary to understand
[4:35:52] with this type of building, we're not
[4:35:54] doing anything to the apparatus bay,
[4:35:55] which constitutes a huge percentage of
[4:35:57] the square footage of the building. The
[4:35:58] only we're doing to that is reskinning
[4:36:00] the exterior.
[4:36:01] >> Okay? So excuse you're counting the
[4:36:04] square foot of just the parts that
[4:36:05] you're actually building up, but not
[4:36:07] >> we have it broken down. So go ahead. Go
[4:36:09] ahead. But it's just important to
[4:36:10] recognize that the pardon
[4:36:11] >> if I missed it. Did everyone already see
[4:36:12] this? If you did, I can look it up.
[4:36:14] >> Yeah. So
[4:36:14] >> I have had it up there earlier.
[4:36:16] >> Okay. The remodel of the community
[4:36:18] center is worth $519 a square foot.
[4:36:23] >> Okay.
[4:36:24] >> The addition of the fire station is
[4:36:27] worth $643 a square foot.
[4:36:31] and the vestibule is worth $294 a square
[4:36:34] foot.
[4:36:36] >> Okay,
[4:36:39] » those numbers
[4:36:41] >> include
[4:36:43] everything that we've talked
[4:36:45] >> that's including the budget of this
[4:36:47] 5.9ish even with
[4:36:49] >> 5.2.
[4:36:50] >> Oh, that's the 5.2, not with the extra
[4:36:52] 800. So, it would push
[4:36:54] >> that doesn't include the soft costs.
[4:36:55] That's construction costs only.
[4:36:57] >> Oh, okay. Good clarification. Okay. So,
[4:36:59] those were some of the questions. Then
[4:37:01] some of the uh bigger things. I'm coming at this
[4:37:07] late. Okay. So, I don't know what's been
[4:37:08] approved and what is like nonchangeable.
[4:37:12] Um
[4:37:13] but uh
[4:37:16] I don't know why we're doing this. I
[4:37:17] guess I I just I don't know why we're um
[4:37:22] doing this when there are other things
[4:37:24] um that are so much more pressing. But I
[4:37:28] don't know if there's even anything to
[4:37:29] do about that. This has been decided
[4:37:31] long ago, I guess. Um,
[4:37:34] >> so right now, do you have specific
[4:37:36] questions? And then meanwhile, if you
[4:37:38] don't, if you want to start think about
[4:37:40] >> three questions about the undecided
[4:37:42] items.
[4:37:42] >> Yeah. Three questions. what we're going
[4:37:44] to be going over. Three questions would
[4:37:45] just be are we bringing this up because
[4:37:48] we have to decide whether to approve the
[4:37:51] larger budget because under my
[4:37:52] understanding this has already been
[4:37:53] approved right at 5 million
[4:37:56] >> or what I don't understand what has been
[4:37:58] approved
[4:37:59] >> the project has been approved and then
[4:38:02] rough numbers knowing that it was very
[4:38:05] early on in the stage rough numbers so
[4:38:08] we're saying hey this is how far along
[4:38:10] we are
[4:38:11] >> this is what the numbers are looking
[4:38:13] like
[4:38:13] >> is materializing And then, you know,
[4:38:15] we're hearing now that once they get the
[4:38:17] fully finalized plans, then they'll go
[4:38:20] through an actual round of bids. All
[4:38:23] they did here is to get preliminary
[4:38:25] numbers,
[4:38:25] >> right? No, I understand that. So, my
[4:38:27] question is, are we setting this up to
[4:38:29] approve this new number or just the next
[4:38:31] step? And then ultimately there'll be
[4:38:32] approval on the final bids, what you're
[4:38:34] saying. That's where we'll actually see
[4:38:36] >> for the final cost.
[4:38:37] >> That's where the development
[4:38:38] >> really. Yes. Yeah. Approve this. We can
[4:38:40] move forward with construction drawings.
[4:38:42] Okay.
[4:38:42] >> And then when the bids come in, then
[4:38:45] you'll approve
[4:38:45] >> almost every issue like so the the last
[4:38:47] comment is just like we love firemen, we
[4:38:49] love fire departments, we love
[4:38:50] libraries, we love everything. But
[4:38:52] there's like the swath of 65 year olds
[4:38:55] that some of them came to. They're just
[4:38:57] getting crushed. I know it's $50 or
[4:39:00] whatever 150 grand a year. That includes
[4:39:02] the um
[4:39:07] the interest as well, right? So, like I
[4:39:10] said, it's a rough
[4:39:11] >> I know that sounds small though, but
[4:39:12] it's not materializing small for
[4:39:14] everyone. They're getting choked out of
[4:39:16] their houses.
[4:39:17] >> Um
[4:39:18] >> I just want you to understand that like
[4:39:20] this is already in our budget because
[4:39:22] we've already been budgeting a million.
[4:39:24] So, this has no impact on our taxpayers
[4:39:26] like increase per se because we haven't
[4:39:28] voted to increase taxes,
[4:39:30] >> right?
[4:39:31] >> So, we're not we're using sales tax for
[4:39:33] this.
[4:39:33] >> And at the end of the day, it takes my
[4:39:35] raccoon traps and it destroys them. Next
[4:39:37] year's raccoon budget is I'm just saying
[4:39:39] like that's not that's not what we're
[4:39:41] talking about is like
[4:39:42] >> and honestly end of the day safety is
[4:39:45] very important to our
[4:39:46] >> res I know it's important.
[4:39:48] >> So yes and I've told you this before
[4:39:51] that originally we went into it thinking
[4:39:53] that we would do a remodel but we
[4:39:55] realized that we're out of compliance
[4:39:57] for a fire station that has full-time
[4:40:00] firefighters. Okay. And in order to be
[4:40:02] compliant
[4:40:03] and because we had the room, it was
[4:40:05] better to just do an addition and make a
[4:40:08] purpose-built fire
[4:40:10] uh firehouse living quarters
[4:40:13] >> as opposed to trying to retrofit and try
[4:40:15] to do everything because if you look at
[4:40:16] the costs, you know, we think we're
[4:40:19] saving money on remodeling, which we are
[4:40:21] for that community center,
[4:40:23] >> but it's not that much more to build
[4:40:26] something that is up to code, that is up
[4:40:29] to OSHA standards,
[4:40:30] >> that background for the fire people who
[4:40:32] most of their calls are for ambulatory
[4:40:34] calls for people that are 65 and older.
[4:40:37] That's most of their calls.
[4:40:39] >> And so that's the way I look at it is
[4:40:40] that's the number one priority in the
[4:40:43] city is the safety for our residents.
[4:40:45] This is helping facilitate it.
[4:40:47] >> Thank you for that background. It's
[4:40:48] really helpful and I appreciate all the
[4:40:50] work you did to make that happen. Last
[4:40:51] thing is uh I personally given and and
[4:40:54] the residents are now giving feedback.
[4:40:57] Uh they are not asking for this. They're
[4:40:59] not for this, but I see the background.
[4:41:01] Um, I personally would take the funds
[4:41:03] and just do fire mitigation.
[4:41:06] I don't I don't but but this has been
[4:41:08] decided before me. So, I'll just try to
[4:41:10] be as helpful as I can to keep the costs
[4:41:12] low. So, yeah, that's all. Thank you.
[4:41:14] >> Great. Okay. So, um did you have
[4:41:16] anything else? No, Brent didn't said he
[4:41:18] didn't have
[4:41:18] >> Oh, sorry. Last thing. I apologize. I
[4:41:21] apologize, mayor. The the um the going
[4:41:25] into extra year budgets. This was
[4:41:28] something I'm sorry that was brought up.
[4:41:31] >> How what what how do we go and this
[4:41:33] might be a legal question. How do we go
[4:41:34] about that? For example, I'll be on the
[4:41:36] city council for this term.
[4:41:38] >> Um and hopefully forever if if I do a
[4:41:41] good job, but um that's a joke. But uh
[4:41:44] can I make decisions that lock in budget
[4:41:47] years for future city councils for like
[4:41:49] years and years and years and years?
[4:41:51] >> Not for years and years and years, but
[4:41:53] bonding is Yeah. Once you lock into a
[4:41:55] bond, you're into it for 20 years for 20
[4:41:58] years.
[4:41:59] >> But as far as
[4:42:00] >> I'm talking about the two million
[4:42:04] years is to break it up so that there it
[4:42:06] could potentially free up money for
[4:42:09] other projects because this project is
[4:42:11] going is spanning over several
[4:42:14] >> years
[4:42:14] >> fiscal years. Right. Right.
[4:42:15] >> That we have the option to do that. We
[4:42:17] can't do it if if this project happened
[4:42:20] within one fiscal year. I don't see how
[4:42:22] we could justify spreading it out to two
[4:42:25] or three fiscal years, but because this
[4:42:28] project the way it started with the
[4:42:30] design phase, that's one part and then
[4:42:32] >> but yes, you can do that and that's not
[4:42:35] >> all right. The background's helpful.
[4:42:36] Thank you all.
[4:42:37] >> Okay, but Andrew, when we like decide to
[4:42:39] put in a park, we're forever paying for
[4:42:41] the water or maintenance of it. So, we
[4:42:43] make lots of decisions that will go on
[4:42:46] forever like we've talked about. So,
[4:42:48] yes, we encumber the future. I know the
[4:42:52] only reason I bring it up is because we
[4:42:54] create this budget and we'll do it every
[4:42:57] year, but we should go into it eyes wide
[4:43:00] open knowing that most of it's already
[4:43:02] gotten chunked out from last year's
[4:43:03] thing,
[4:43:04] >> right? And most of it is just for basics
[4:43:06] like
[4:43:08] >> public safety.
[4:43:10] >> Okay, let's move on. Just quickly, I
[4:43:12] would like to spread it out and then use
[4:43:14] some of our um emergency fund to to bond
[4:43:19] less go that model.
[4:43:22] >> The contingency fund, the fund balance.
[4:43:24] >> Yeah, the fund balance.
[4:43:25] >> Yeah.
[4:43:25] >> So, do we have less of a bond you're
[4:43:27] saying?
[4:43:28] >> Right. Right. I'd rather I mean and and
[4:43:30] I I didn't realize that this would be an
[4:43:32] impact on the taxpayers because if it's
[4:43:34] on our sales tax, is it our sales tax
[4:43:36] coming in? So why are they paying more
[4:43:40] taxes?
[4:43:42] >> Well, no, it all comes from the same
[4:43:45] person. Like at the end of the day, it
[4:43:47] all comes from Go ahead.
[4:43:48] >> I think the mayor was just trying to
[4:43:50] illustrate the impact, which is
[4:43:52] basically a 44 oz swig drink per month.
[4:43:56] >> Fair. Fair.
[4:43:58] >> You loved that joke. Too much. Too much.
[4:44:01] >> I think that's what she's trying to
[4:44:02] illustrate. Not that it was going to be
[4:44:04] that kind of a tax increase to them
[4:44:06] >> because I've been saying this isn't
[4:44:08] increasing your taxes.
[4:44:09] >> Right.
[4:44:10] Okay. I just want to make sure
[4:44:11] that when I'm firmly telling people that
[4:44:14] Yeah.
[4:44:14] >> that it is not increasing their taxes.
[4:44:17] >> Yeah. It was just a way to look at
[4:44:19] >> but it's not allowing them to ever go
[4:44:21] lower because we're locking in, we're
[4:44:23] bonding, we're going to need other
[4:44:24] stuff. Say there's an emergency.
[4:44:26] >> What you're doing is the sales tax it
[4:44:29] will be taking away $150,000. So right
[4:44:31] now, let's say we get a million dollars
[4:44:32] in sales tax revenue.
[4:44:34] >> In the future, we will only have
[4:44:36] $850,000.
[4:44:37] >> I'm really confident in prioritizing
[4:44:40] public safety. Like
[4:44:42] >> and sales tax revenue has been going up
[4:44:44] 8% every year.
[4:44:45] >> Exactly. As Mayor Frost told us, all
[4:44:48] this inhome ordering is going to save us
[4:44:50] all.
[4:44:51] >> You're right. I I'm on the board with
[4:44:52] the safety as well. Can I tell you one
[4:44:55] metaphor that I have to live with? In
[4:44:56] fact, I fly to DC to do it tomorrow.
[4:44:58] It's quick and it's important
[4:45:00] >> because we try to keep women safe and
[4:45:02] children every day. That's where I'm
[4:45:03] going to fight Amazon tomorrow, okay,
[4:45:06] for for the dirty dolls that they sell.
[4:45:08] So, we try to help people post problems,
[4:45:13] okay? And we find it is a hundred 50 to
[4:45:16] 100 times more expensive, more tedious,
[4:45:18] more hard than just doing prevention.
[4:45:20] Okay? That's the same with fires and
[4:45:22] safeties. And it's way less expensive.
[4:45:25] It's way better to do. And
[4:45:27] >> when you're talking about fire
[4:45:28] prevention, but most of their calls, 95
[4:45:31] I would say 90 to 95% of their calls are
[4:45:33] ambulatory,
[4:45:34] >> right? So
[4:45:35] >> how are you going to spend money to
[4:45:36] prevent ambulatory calls?
[4:45:38] >> Well, I gave you my whole presentation,
[4:45:40] but I got
[4:45:40] >> Andrew, let me fill in one little gap.
[4:45:43] >> Yes. Thank you.
[4:45:44] >> This is for retention and retaining the
[4:45:46] best staff that we can like
[4:45:49] >> to protect. Yes. To protect our
[4:45:51] residents. And so it's not about we need
[4:45:53] to do fire pretent prevention. That's
[4:45:56] like in a completely separate
[4:45:58] conversation. This has nothing to do or
[4:46:00] is not related to keeping our
[4:46:04] firefighters in a Did you say it's not
[4:46:07] compliant living condition?
[4:46:09] >> Right. The only reason it's related is
[4:46:11] because um at the end of the day, we
[4:46:12] want to help them. We want to make them
[4:46:14] safe and there's multiple ways to do it.
[4:46:17] So like I get we want to do the crisis.
[4:46:19] This is crisis control. We're paying for
[4:46:21] crisis control right now. a building
[4:46:23] that has a lot of very great experts to
[4:46:25] deal with crisis control. We need a
[4:46:28] little bit of funding and focus on the
[4:46:30] prevention side as well. And
[4:46:32] >> okay, but we're not having that in the
[4:46:33] budget discussion instead of a fire
[4:46:35] station discussion.
[4:46:36] >> I know, but the reason it's related
[4:46:37] because this money takes away from ever
[4:46:39] being able to do that type of thing.
[4:46:40] That's the only reason why it's related.
[4:46:41] >> Okay. So, let's Okay, you're done. Yep.
[4:46:44] >> Sarah, I think you're the only one that
[4:46:46] hasn't commented. just a comment like
[4:46:48] I'm just function over fashion and
[4:46:51] whatever is going to be longest lasting
[4:46:53] so I don't have to replace it is kind of
[4:46:55] where I stand and oh just one question
[4:46:58] on the floor you said the cement
[4:46:59] flooring you can just grind that down
[4:47:01] and then fill in the cracks and then it
[4:47:04] lasts longer than epoxy
[4:47:06] >> epoxy is just an over coating that goes
[4:47:08] over
[4:47:08] >> the over coat okay
[4:47:10] >> so the fixes we're doing would address
[4:47:12] immediately without putting in an
[4:47:13] overall encompassing new coat of epoxy
[4:47:16] over the for
[4:47:18] >> and epoxy is great. Don't get me wrong.
[4:47:20] It It's beautiful. I'd love to do it in
[4:47:22] my garage, too. But it becomes a
[4:47:24] maintenance issue. It
[4:47:26] >> And it's expensive. And it's expens.
[4:47:29] >> Okay. Chief, did you have a comment?
[4:47:37] » You're not It's not as slick.
[4:47:39] >> Yeah.
[4:47:40] >> Right. Because they throw down the
[4:47:42] whatever
[4:47:43] >> chips or whatever.
[4:47:45] Um, that's the advantage of epoxy, but
[4:47:48] the epoxy starts to come up, especially
[4:47:50] running these trucks over it. So, I
[4:47:52] mean, the the floor is 18 years old in
[4:47:55] Highland, and it looks about the same as
[4:47:57] it did five years into that station's
[4:48:00] life, and it it just starts to chip. It
[4:48:02] start it gets anything underneath it,
[4:48:03] and it starts it looks pretty rough.
[4:48:06] >> Thank you for that information. Um, are
[4:48:09] we going to go through each of these?
[4:48:10] >> Let's go through these items. Can we go
[4:48:13] back to the spreadsheet with Okay. As
[4:48:16] far as the roof systems,
[4:48:19] um, can you go do you have drawings of
[4:48:21] what those three would look like? I
[4:48:23] believe that
[4:48:24] >> all three.
[4:48:25] >> Um, and then I think let's get direction
[4:48:27] from council what you guys are. So, this
[4:48:30] is um I think this is the one that they
[4:48:32] were suggesting, right? That would saves
[4:48:34] the $168,000.
[4:48:36] Is that correct? So this is a new roof, over the entire station, but
[4:48:41] primarily asphalt with the blue areas
[4:48:43] being just standing seam, the elevated
[4:48:45] metal
[4:48:46] >> previously, which is contained in the
[4:48:48] 5.2 was it's all standing seam, all
[4:48:52] metal, which is a higher resiliency
[4:48:54] roof. There's more noise and stuff to it
[4:48:56] like that, but it's longer lasting,
[4:48:59] higher quality.
[4:49:00] >> Not quite all of it. If you look at the
[4:49:02] image to the left, there's a lighter
[4:49:05] yellow. That's a flat roof area that
[4:49:07] actually has a single ply roof. That's
[4:49:09] the w mechanical well where the rooftop
[4:49:12] units are.
[4:49:13] >> What's the life of a asphalt roof versus
[4:49:16] a standing seam?
[4:49:17] >> In Utah alpine, you're probably anywhere
[4:49:19] from 30 to 50 years
[4:49:21] >> or standing seam.
[4:49:24] >> And then asphalt, sorry,
[4:49:25] >> you can buy asphalt with warranties from
[4:49:28] 20 to 40 years.
[4:49:32] There's more wear and tear with the
[4:49:34] asphalt roof.
[4:49:34] >> Other than the lifespan, is there any
[4:49:37] advantage or disadvantage to the metal
[4:49:38] roof?
[4:49:40] >> I like aesthetics. So, I just was had my
[4:49:42] heart set on that metal roof.
[4:49:44] >> No, I thought the metal roof looked
[4:49:46] better, but I the one thing that I did
[4:49:48] consider is the noise also of a metal
[4:49:50] roof as opposed to an asphalt roof. A
[4:49:52] metal roof can be really loud in a
[4:49:54] rainstorm and especially hail more. You
[4:49:56] know, think about it if when you have
[4:49:58] hail hitting your
[4:49:59] >> I wish that was a problem. Yeah,
[4:50:02] >> it's not. Now,
[4:50:05] >> the only other u drawback with metal
[4:50:08] roof is snow retainage. Uh we'll put
[4:50:13] snow fences and snow cleat on the roof
[4:50:15] that will keep the snow on the roof
[4:50:17] rather than because it warms and then it
[4:50:20] slides off in an avalanche fashion.
[4:50:22] >> So, that's a disadvantage. a little bit
[4:50:24] of safety issue, but there's ways to to
[4:50:28] combat it with snow fences and and
[4:50:31] cleat.
[4:50:32] >> Mayor, are you looking for on that list
[4:50:33] which ones we want to remove?
[4:50:35] >> Yes. So, the very first one is the type
[4:50:37] of roof. This is option one. No, that is
[4:50:40] the hybrid, right? It's 1B that we just
[4:50:43] saw.
[4:50:43] >> What what's been documented is one
[4:50:45] what's been illustrated is 1B. What's
[4:50:47] captured in the cost is not here. It's
[4:50:49] all standing seam,
[4:50:50] >> right? Yeah. So, I was looking at the
[4:50:53] difference between the 165 and the 198
[4:50:55] and thinking it's only 3 uh $4,000 more
[4:50:58] for for a standing seam, but you don't
[4:51:00] even have standing seam as an option.
[4:51:03] >> No, a standing seam. No savings at all
[4:51:05] if you take those numbers out. It's just
[4:51:07] >> the 5.2.
[4:51:08] >> It's it's already built in the cost.
[4:51:11] >> The basis of the original cost.
[4:51:13] >> So, the numbers that you're seeing now
[4:51:14] are taking away from the 5.2.
[4:51:16] >> So, okay. Whatever the standing seam
[4:51:18] was, this is this much less.
[4:51:19] >> Yes. So the three other options
[4:51:22] >> are a deduct of somewhere between
[4:51:25] 166,000 and 198,000.
[4:51:28] >> Right. Right.
[4:51:29] >> Over having fullon standing seam.
[4:51:32] >> None of
[4:51:33] >> Yeah. For aesthetics that does seem very
[4:51:35] pricey. I agree. But
[4:51:37] >> it was going to look really nice.
[4:51:39] >> So all of these things can be removed
[4:51:41] and it still functions properly.
[4:51:44] >> Well, I'm on for just removing them. And
[4:51:47] if you ever want to get them later, you
[4:51:48] can get them later. and update stuff if
[4:51:51] you've got the money.
[4:51:53] >> One by one.
[4:51:53] >> Oh, sorry. Go.
[4:51:55] >> Okay. So, um, do you have the drawings
[4:51:57] for the other 1A and 1 C?
[4:52:02] >> I
[4:52:03] >> Well, I guess asphalt shingle that's all
[4:52:05] asphalt and no standing seam, but we
[4:52:07] thought it needed the element.
[4:52:10] >> Is the amount of st standing. So, um I
[4:52:14] think we, you know, the committee had
[4:52:16] agreed on the 165, but I really wanted
[4:52:18] input from council and what was
[4:52:21] important to you, but that is the price
[4:52:23] savings that's outlined. Um are you guys
[4:52:27] okay with the 165? Okay. Now, let's go
[4:52:31] to the only the added um glazing in the
[4:52:35] day room.
[4:52:37] >> Wait, really? Sorry. Really quick, just
[4:52:38] so I understand that, mayor. Um, you're
[4:52:40] saying the 165 that is our savings?
[4:52:43] >> Yes.
[4:52:44] >> Okay. Versus doing option 1 A which we
[4:52:47] would save more
[4:52:48] >> 198.
[4:52:49] >> So option A I'll just tell you. So
[4:52:51] that's leaving the existing
[4:52:54] A.
[4:52:54] >> We don't want to do it because they
[4:52:56] basically reached their life, right,
[4:52:57] Rich? Is that Am I right on that?
[4:52:59] >> No, no, it's opposite.
[4:53:01] >> The biggest savings puts asphalt on
[4:53:04] everything. No standing seam at all. The
[4:53:07] one that we picked puts it at the day
[4:53:09] room and at the entry and the
[4:53:14] >> the other one leaves standing seam on
[4:53:17] the apparatus bay.
[4:53:19] >> Okay. Yeah.
[4:53:21] >> Would it be helpful if we had Blake
[4:53:22] bring up kind of the the document where
[4:53:24] we can actually change the numbers so
[4:53:26] you can see the 5.2 And as we accept
[4:53:28] those items, you can see go down
[4:53:31] >> because this this is a little more
[4:53:33] confusing where we've already kind of
[4:53:34] accepted some of the items and some are
[4:53:35] undecided and some are rejected.
[4:53:37] >> And and Carla, when something is
[4:53:39] decided, yeah, or no, actually say the
[4:53:41] yes or no so Deian can put it on.
[4:53:43] >> Okay. So, we'll go through each item.
[4:53:44] Okay.
[4:53:45] >> You don't have to vote on it, but if you
[4:53:46] say Yep. That's a yes.
[4:53:47] >> Okay. So um we will we are um quick
[4:53:52] correct me if I'm wrong but we are
[4:53:54] accepting option 1B for savings of about
[4:53:57] what 16
[4:53:59] >> 165 on the um roof options
[4:54:10] » and any of these you could add them
[4:54:11] later if you wanted to if like you're
[4:54:13] like we want to do it and we got a bunch
[4:54:15] of cash sitting around you could always
[4:54:16] add them. I don't
[4:54:18] >> I don't know. Right now, we're saying
[4:54:20] no.
[4:54:20] >> No, I know. I'm I'm saying you can
[4:54:22] always do it later. You can say no to
[4:54:24] all of it and just
[4:54:25] >> We could do it in 40 years.
[4:54:27] >> Well, you can always epoxy the floor
[4:54:30] later. You don't have to do it all now.
[4:54:32] >> It's not all that simple. There are some
[4:54:34] that would there would be a tremendous
[4:54:36] amount of effort to take back so you
[4:54:37] could put the appropriate materials and
[4:54:39] steps into to get
[4:54:41] >> to your point. if they want there are
[4:54:42] some things they could some
[4:54:45] >> but as far as like glazing things like
[4:54:47] that roofing is not that means you're
[4:54:50] losing the roofing that you had you're
[4:54:51] going to spend money
[4:54:53] >> okay perfect let's go back up
[4:54:56] >> let's go up so we're accepting the 16594
[4:55:00] >> so you can see down below just keep your
[4:55:03] eyes on the these lower two numbers so
[4:55:05] we've accepted 1B
[4:55:09] >> and then we'll reject these two
[4:55:12] Good.
[4:55:13] >> Now you can see that we're moving in the
[4:55:14] right direction there.
[4:55:16] >> Okay.
[4:55:17] >> So you can
[4:55:17] >> Okay.
[4:55:18] >> No, keep going. You can drive.
[4:55:19] >> Okay.
[4:55:20] >> We'll let you drive. I'm not going to
[4:55:21] drive your computer.
[4:55:24] >> All right. So the next one is um the
[4:55:29] Let me see. Added glazing on the
[4:55:31] community center, not a VE. We've added
[4:55:34] that. Uh do we want to add that? And
[4:55:36] that's the additional glazing on the end
[4:55:39] of the existing building.
[4:55:42] >> Bigger windows.
[4:55:44] >> Yes, it's a bank of windows.
[4:55:46] >> You looked at me
[4:55:48] glazing.
[4:55:49] >> You know, I love big windows. Don't
[4:55:50] tempt me.
[4:55:51] >> I didn't know what glazing was. So the Y on this is it's the south facing
[4:55:56] side of the building and it will
[4:55:58] overlook the brand new sculpture park
[4:56:01] that's been you know built for us with
[4:56:04] all the landscaping. So it kind of feels
[4:56:07] like if we don't have windows that we
[4:56:10] can see it. There's two there's the
[4:56:12] existing windows that's a missed you
[4:56:15] know opportunity. I just feel like it's
[4:56:17] such a big area that the added windows
[4:56:19] and the natural daylight that just, you
[4:56:22] know, I don't want to be in a dark room.
[4:56:24] Um, to me it just kind of adds that
[4:56:27] value and yeah, it brings warmth to the
[4:56:30] room. What's the current size of those
[4:56:33] windows? Do you know approximately?
[4:56:35] >> I have to measure them as I think they
[4:56:36] were uh 30 in by 5t tall.
[4:56:40] >> Yeah. And these become
[4:56:43] they twice that size twice.
[4:56:46] >> It's basically that whole
[4:56:48] >> it's the $50,000 isn't the cost for the
[4:56:50] glazing. It's the cost of the structural
[4:56:52] upgrades because we're taking so much
[4:56:54] structural integrity out of that
[4:56:55] existing wall
[4:56:56] >> to allow for the opening.
[4:56:58] >> Yeah.
[4:56:58] We have to retrofit structural
[4:57:00] systems to allow those openings to be
[4:57:02] that big.
[4:57:03] >> You couldn't just add more windows next
[4:57:06] to it. I said that's what I said. just
[4:57:09] use on paper.
[4:57:11] There's a lot of stuff on the inside.
[4:57:14] >> Yeah,
[4:57:16] I think you can do that.
[4:57:17] >> This was explained to Councilwoman
[4:57:18] Shman, but in a as a as a very
[4:57:20] rudimentary approach, uh you can take
[4:57:23] 10% of existing square footage of an
[4:57:25] elevation to modify it without
[4:57:27] implementing the structural uh concerns.
[4:57:29] So, if you have a 100 foot wall and you
[4:57:31] change more than 10 square feet, you're
[4:57:33] into a structural change.
[4:57:35] >> Makes sense.
[4:57:37] >> Okay. So, um,
[4:57:40] >> so I'm all for the all the glazing just
[4:57:42] put over to, um,
[4:57:45] what does that mean? Rejected. We're
[4:57:47] keeping
[4:57:47] >> accepted. Yeah. If you're going to if you're in favor of
[4:57:53] >> added glazing,
[4:57:55] then
[4:57:55] >> we talked about it his rooms too on the other side. We just talk about
[4:58:00] windows all in one.
[4:58:01] >> Maybe. Sorry to interrupt, but uh that
[4:58:04] 500 that 50,000 is not included in the
[4:58:07] 5.2. So if you want to add that, it's
[4:58:10] going to be
[4:58:10] >> it's a plus.
[4:58:11] >> You guys do what you need to do with
[4:58:12] your spreadsheet to make sure that we
[4:58:14] get windows.
[4:58:14] >> Well, wait, hold on. That is not my
[4:58:17] view. So that's hers. So that's okay.
[4:58:19] >> And your view is not to anything, right?
[4:58:22] >> Well, no.
[4:58:23] >> It is to do all these savings and then
[4:58:26] as this plays out, if there's more
[4:58:27] money, do these later. Now, I understand
[4:58:29] what it's like to put in a window. It
[4:58:31] can be done. I'm doing it in my house.
[4:58:32] You can do it. So my my view is to So So
[4:58:35] I would say no to this right now just
[4:58:36] because we're already over budget.
[4:58:39] >> You say no. Let's see. Brent, where are
[4:58:41] you at?
[4:58:42] >> Uh we've discussed it before and we
[4:58:44] approved it before. I'm going to stick
[4:58:45] with that.
[4:58:46] >> So again, going back and adding windows
[4:58:49] later is going to cost you triple of
[4:58:53] doing it.
[4:58:53] >> You're right. But we were already over.
[4:58:56] >> Okay, Sarah. Oh my goodness. It's just
[4:58:59] so much money. have to say no. It's
[4:59:01] okay.
[4:59:02] >> Yeah.
[4:59:02] >> Okay.
[4:59:03] >> So, it looks like majority are wanting
[4:59:06] to accept the additional cost of adding
[4:59:10] glazing or windows to the community
[4:59:12] center. Um and then
[4:59:14] >> and the fire station, right?
[4:59:16] >> So, the fire station day, I believe.
[4:59:18] Yeah, I think
[4:59:19] >> that was the reduction, if you'll
[4:59:21] remember, Chad showed it reducing the
[4:59:24] height of those. That's only you guys
[4:59:26] remember savings to reduce the height of
[4:59:29] those windows.
[4:59:30] >> I don't think it'll look proportionate
[4:59:32] anymore. It was designed that way for a
[4:59:33] reason.
[4:59:35] >> I'm aesthetically I am I do care about
[4:59:37] aesthetics.
[4:59:38] >> If you're asking for my vote, I don't
[4:59:40] think that's worth the $700 savings.
[4:59:43] It's a
[4:59:43] >> $7,500 is fine.
[4:59:45] >> I say this in a lot of our meetings. You
[4:59:47] have to have a perception of
[4:59:49] >> some of these smaller items that we're de debating back and forth on. The
[4:59:54] dollar amounts are small, but the visual
[4:59:56] impact and the experience and the field
[4:59:59] of space is much bigger.
[5:00:00] >> So you say,
[5:00:01] >> you know what? Let's let's expedite
[5:00:03] this.
[5:00:03] >> We just do the the things Shane listed
[5:00:05] and then miscellaneous a bunch.
[5:00:08] >> I'm just So do we not want to go down
[5:00:11] this list that they have?
[5:00:12] >> No. Okay.
[5:00:13] >> I want to just get rid of all.
[5:00:15] >> Let's just say keep yes, no, yes, no. So
[5:00:17] keep
[5:00:19] >> keep the 7.
[5:00:20] >> And mine's easy. I'm just I know on all
[5:00:22] of it, but so you can go with the other
[5:00:23] ones.
[5:00:24] >> Wait, they rejected the 7500.
[5:00:26] >> That means we're keeping it.
[5:00:27] >> Yeah, that was
[5:00:29] kind of these are rejecting.
[5:00:33] >> Okay. Okay. Okay.
[5:00:35] >> The epoxy we're recepting
[5:00:39] the deduction.
[5:00:40] >> Yeah.
[5:00:41] >> Okay. And then city purchases the
[5:00:44] generator.
[5:00:45] >> Yes, we're accepting that. And then the
[5:00:48] drywall. Yes. The furring. Yes, we're
[5:00:50] accepting that.
[5:00:51] >> No furring
[5:00:52] >> wood wall panel gable ends only. Keep
[5:00:55] street facing.
[5:00:56] >> That's the south end.
[5:00:57] >> Mhm.
[5:00:59] >> I think I think anything that's the
[5:01:03] exterior of the building, we want it to
[5:01:05] look right,
[5:01:06] >> right? But I think we're thinking that
[5:01:08] people aren't really going to see it.
[5:01:09] It's like not on the street. So, it's
[5:01:11] >> Oh, yeah. All those people going to the
[5:01:13] storage units for their fancy cars are
[5:01:15] going to see that building. And we don't
[5:01:17] want it to look. Don't pretend you want
[5:01:19] >> We don't want it to look.
[5:01:21] >> Don't pretend you want that. It's got to
[5:01:23] like live up to the It has it on that
[5:01:25] side.
[5:01:26] >> It doesn't have it.
[5:01:27] >> Yeah. It's only on the south end.
[5:01:30] >> So on the north facing it's still there.
[5:01:32] >> Still be wooden.
[5:01:33] >> Thank goodness.
[5:01:34] >> Except do we do we not while we're doing
[5:01:36] this want to get any feedback? I mean
[5:01:38] this is their our residents money of
[5:01:40] what they would want and
[5:01:41] >> that's why they elected us Andrew.
[5:01:43] >> But we never tell them
[5:01:45] >> you have their voice and you're Great
[5:01:46] job with it.
[5:01:47] >> I accept.
[5:01:48] >> Okay. What's next? We've got existing
[5:01:52] >> existing Oh, yeah. What? We
[5:01:54] >> We gave up the wood on the inside.
[5:01:56] >> Yep. We did
[5:01:57] >> on the south end. That was accepted.
[5:01:59] >> Okay.
[5:01:59] >> Keep existing entry overhead doors.
[5:02:03] >> I'm I'm really sorry. I heard separate
[5:02:04] things.
[5:02:05] >> What is that?
[5:02:06] >> Oh,
[5:02:07] >> on on the item about the keeping the
[5:02:09] wood on the gabling. I heard that we
[5:02:10] wanted to keep the wood. Oh,
[5:02:12] >> I thought I think we're taking it off
[5:02:15] the south side.
[5:02:16] >> I Yeah, I heard that. Correct.
[5:02:18] >> They're going to get rid of the south
[5:02:19] side, but keep it on the street.
[5:02:22] >> Um, what was the overhead? Is that the
[5:02:24] bay doors at door?
[5:02:25] >> Yeah, keep the existing entry doors.
[5:02:28] >> Entry doors
[5:02:29] >> and we said
[5:02:30] >> and they're old.
[5:02:31] >> That That was a hard one for chief
[5:02:33] because we're remodeling his building
[5:02:36] and leaving 30-y old doors.
[5:02:38] >> So, that was the one that the chief said
[5:02:40] no. Right. Can you paint them?
[5:02:42] >> Do those are they functional or not so
[5:02:45] much?
[5:02:46] >> Those doors are only good for so many
[5:02:47] operations and they're
[5:02:49] >> quite a bit.
[5:02:50] >> It's not worth it. Quite a
[5:02:52] >> bit
[5:02:55] I would rather put 50,000 or 57,000 for
[5:02:59] doors than the windows. That's me
[5:03:01] personally. That seems more of a
[5:03:03] function thing for an emergency service.
[5:03:06] >> But but
[5:03:06] >> it's not functional as far as
[5:03:10] we're putting We're putting those new
[5:03:11] doors in,
[5:03:13] >> right? Okay.
[5:03:25] C can we just talk about the wood
[5:03:26] paneling going back because we talk
[5:03:28] about this part people wanted to save
[5:03:30] all that open space like people who use
[5:03:33] the square are not on the street like
[5:03:36] they come and play play lacrosse there
[5:03:39] or whatever and then we do the pet show
[5:03:40] there all the use of the park is not is
[5:03:43] in the interior. So, I I'm just going to
[5:03:46] request one more time you reconsider the
[5:03:48] wood on the on the south side
[5:03:50] >> here. Let's do a quick yes. No. Do you
[5:03:52] want to keep the wood
[5:03:53] >> because this is all uh functional
[5:03:55] without any of this? I'm just saying no.
[5:03:57] Let's do it later if we need. So, no.
[5:03:58] >> So, you're Yes. No, Brent.
[5:04:01] >> No.
[5:04:03] >> Yes. No.
[5:04:04] >> Okay. So, we're getting rid of the
[5:04:06] southside wood paneling. Sorry. Okay.
[5:04:08] So, we're on to the next. I really am
[5:04:10] hurt when Jessica
[5:04:12] >> doors
[5:04:13] >> again. They're 30 year old doors, 40
[5:04:15] year old doors.
[5:04:16] >> Let's replace them.
[5:04:17] >> Yeah. I mean,
[5:04:19] >> okay. So, that is
[5:04:20] >> We're building a new rejected
[5:04:22] >> eliminating the vestibule.
[5:04:25] >> The vestibule is the outer door frame
[5:04:27] thing, right?
[5:04:28] >> That's the vestibule on the community
[5:04:30] center,
[5:04:30] >> right? The doors.
[5:04:31] >> The addition the doors and the addition
[5:04:33] to me that seems like it has some energy
[5:04:35] saving. I understand,
[5:04:37] >> but I don't know if it's going to save
[5:04:39] $23,000 in energy cost.
[5:04:41] >> But Chad said we want to make the whole
[5:04:43] thing look uniform. Like this is the old
[5:04:44] part is the new. Like it's clearly an
[5:04:46] addition. Like we want to like tie the
[5:04:48] two pieces together.
[5:04:50] >> Clearly an identifier for an entrance as
[5:04:52] well, especially for public.
[5:04:54] >> Yeah, that's true.
[5:04:54] >> That's the entrance.
[5:04:55] >> Chrissy, let her know what you want and
[5:04:56] then I'll go.
[5:04:57] >> Oh, I I I thought that was clear. I I
[5:04:59] would like to keep the vegetable. No.
[5:05:01] >> Okay. Yes. No.
[5:05:02] >> Yes.
[5:05:03] Okay. I'm sorry. Doesn't matter
[5:05:05] what I say. Yeah.
[5:05:06] >> Sorry. Okay. Next.
[5:05:08] >> All right.
[5:05:08] >> Eliminate dorm sinks. Two drawer
[5:05:10] floating cabinet, floating sink,
[5:05:12] cabinet, quartz, counter.
[5:05:14] >> Whatever the chief wants, we do.
[5:05:15] >> Yeah.
[5:05:16] >> Can you explain that a little bit?
[5:05:17] >> He said, so in their dorm rooms right
[5:05:19] now, they have a sink.
[5:05:22] >> And um we're saying we can save $12,000
[5:05:24] because they don't really need a sink in
[5:05:25] their dorm room because there's what,
[5:05:27] three or four bathrooms. Across the hall
[5:05:29] is the bathroom.
[5:05:33] » To brush your teeth,
[5:05:36] >> shave you guys.
[5:05:44] » That sounds like function to me.
[5:05:47] >> No, because they have teeth.
[5:05:49] >> No, but they can do that.
[5:05:50] >> But are the bathrooms divided? So if
[5:05:52] somebody's showering or or
[5:05:53] >> Do people share a bathroom?
[5:05:55] >> But they're not divided. So the shower
[5:05:57] or toilet like once they're doing that?
[5:05:58] Nobody else can use it.
[5:05:59] >> So each of the
[5:06:00] >> same time.
[5:06:01] >> Go ahead,
[5:06:02] >> Chief.
[5:06:04] >> Oh,
[5:06:06] there's two bathrooms. At one point
[5:06:10] I don't know how many times I
[5:06:19] » Oh, I see what you're saying.
[5:06:23] » Like there's not a
[5:06:26] shower right now, but
[5:06:30] bathrooms, but we have
[5:06:33] so we can eliminate.
[5:06:36] >> Okay. So, what
[5:06:39] >> I Okay, so he says that it could be
[5:06:41] elimin.
[5:06:49] Okay. Um,
[5:06:50] >> meaning we're rejecting, right?
[5:06:52] >> Yeah.
[5:06:54] >> We're accepting. We're accept.
[5:06:55] >> No, we're accepting it.
[5:06:56] >> Accept. Yeah.
[5:06:56] >> Okay. We wanted something.
[5:06:58] >> And then they wanted
[5:07:02] >> item 11, eliminate dorm beds built in.
[5:07:05] That's one that I feel like
[5:07:08] we need to reject and keep because even
[5:07:11] though initially it'll be a saving and
[5:07:13] the long a savings, but in the long run
[5:07:16] it'll be an increased cost. But let's
[5:07:19] go. You're going to go first.
[5:07:20] >> So instead of a bed bed frame with just
[5:07:22] a mattress on the floor.
[5:07:24] >> Yeah. I don't understand.
[5:07:25] >> It's a builtin.
[5:07:26] >> I know. The but the other option is just
[5:07:28] to have a bed frame.
[5:07:29] >> Yeah.
[5:07:30] >> On the ground.
[5:07:30] >> So it would be a purchase a purchase bed
[5:07:32] frame like a furniture item. In this
[5:07:33] case, we're going to be building it in
[5:07:34] out of metal.
[5:07:35] >> You just do the little metal ones and
[5:07:36] the box spring and a bed mattress.
[5:07:38] >> That's what would be that's what would
[5:07:40] happen if you accept the
[5:07:41] >> Okay. This isision.
[5:07:42] >> They want a flowered head. What are they
[5:07:45] called?
[5:07:47] >> Headboard and a footboard.
[5:07:48] >> Okay. So
[5:07:50] yes or no.
[5:07:52] >> Are they keeping it?
[5:07:54] >> Yeah. So each shift has storage under
[5:07:56] the bed.
[5:07:56] >> So the bed would be fixed in the room
[5:07:58] because it would be a built-in with
[5:07:59] drawers underneath. So it' function as a
[5:08:01] dresser and a bed.
[5:08:03] >> And and how many of these are there? How
[5:08:05] much have they cost per per bed?
[5:08:07] >> There's six. They're 2,000 a piece.
[5:08:09] >> How much?
[5:08:09] >> Six of them.
[5:08:10] >> There's six dorms. So it's about $3,200
[5:08:12] roughly.
[5:08:15] » There is already built-in existing Well,
[5:08:17] not existing. There's planned
[5:08:19] >> built-in furniture to be going in that
[5:08:21] for their dorm, wardrobes, and their
[5:08:22] desks.
[5:08:24] So, it would make sense to keep that co
[5:08:26] cohesive and have all that be the same
[5:08:28] language, but also have be the same wear
[5:08:30] and same durability.
[5:08:32] >> I want to vote last on this one.
[5:08:34] >> Yeah.
[5:08:35] >> Two years. Okay. I'll vote first. No, I
[5:08:37] want Sarah to go first because she
[5:08:38] hasn't been able to say what is your
[5:08:40] vote on the beds.
[5:08:42] >> These these beds the the life of these
[5:08:44] beds is you're saying is better than
[5:08:46] like a metal.
[5:08:47] >> These are ones that chief was referring
[5:08:49] to
[5:08:49] >> 18 years. How many?
[5:08:51] >> They're forever.
[5:08:52] >> Frames can you buy? I don't know. I
[5:08:54] guess I I guess no.
[5:08:55] >> Okay. So, you
[5:08:56] >> the chief.
[5:08:57] >> You don't want that.
[5:08:58] >> I would like to keep the beds.
[5:09:00] >> I'm a no.
[5:09:03] >> I'm a yes. The chief
[5:09:05] >> voting with the chief.
[5:09:07] >> So, only two voted with the chief. The
[5:09:09] rest of you guys
[5:09:10] >> say if later on the chief really wants
[5:09:12] them, I would gladly.
[5:09:13] >> He wants them now.
[5:09:14] >> No. No. Hold on.
[5:09:15] >> How many?
[5:09:16] >> We don't know if it'll work.
[5:09:18] >> Basic metal bed frames. Can you pay for
[5:09:20] >> metal bed frames and dressers? Oh, it's
[5:09:23] dressers too.
[5:09:23] >> Yeah, it's built in storage you can
[5:09:25] store.
[5:09:26] >> What would they use if we say no? If we
[5:09:28] say no to this, what option do you have?
[5:09:30] >> They'll get a metal bed and some
[5:09:33] >> an IKEA plastic containers.
[5:09:36] >> All right, I'll change to yes.
[5:09:38] >> Okay, so looks like we are rejecting.
[5:09:41] Okay, next one. Um, eliminate community
[5:09:43] center mill work. That's $30,000.
[5:09:47] Um,
[5:09:49] so that you guys
[5:09:50] >> built in cabinets
[5:09:51] >> in the community center.
[5:09:53] >> It's the east of all the community room
[5:09:54] center that has the historic references,
[5:09:57] the televisions, the serving areas, the
[5:09:59] storage areas for the EOC conversion,
[5:10:01] etc.
[5:10:02] >> We don't happen to know someone in the
[5:10:04] community that is a woodworker, do we?
[5:10:07] >> I just
[5:10:08] >> We do, but I don't think they'll do it
[5:10:09] for free.
[5:10:09] >> So, I think that's a great price.
[5:10:11] >> Jerry Jerry Robertson.
[5:10:13] >> Okay.
[5:10:14] >> Did you want Okay. Did you want to
[5:10:15] start, Sarah? Okay. Chie,
[5:10:17] >> keep it.
[5:10:17] >> I'll be a No,
[5:10:21] >> Frank.
[5:10:26] » Yes. No. Yes.
[5:10:29] >> I was going to say no because I think we
[5:10:31] can find
[5:10:32] >> someone to do that.
[5:10:33] >> Oh, outside of the cost.
[5:10:35] >> Cohesive project. Oh, sorry.
[5:10:36] >> Free.
[5:10:37] >> No, no one's going to do it for free.
[5:10:39] >> We should try to find anyone who will do
[5:10:41] independent stuff for us.
[5:10:42] >> What else do we have? Sorry. Come back
[5:10:44] to that. Okay. After we Yeah, this this
[5:10:47] is going to be bid out and competitively
[5:10:49] bid. So, anyone that has a license to
[5:10:51] bid on this can and that includes anyone
[5:10:53] in the community.
[5:10:55] >> So, someone in the community wants to
[5:10:56] come in and bid for this during by all
[5:10:58] means they can like a volunteer. So,
[5:11:00] maybe we can if we find a qualified
[5:11:02] send. Okay.
[5:11:03] >> But you've you've already retained the
[5:11:04] services of a design team to do that
[5:11:06] design for it. You just need to retain
[5:11:08] the services of someone to build it and
[5:11:09] that effort is going to be bid out
[5:11:11] still.
[5:11:13] >> Good reminder. Thank you.
[5:11:15] It's still yes. No.
[5:11:18] >> My thought was, can we come back after
[5:11:20] we look at these other three?
[5:11:21] >> Okay, fine. Okay. What's the next one?
[5:11:23] Um
[5:11:24] >> there. Okay. Eliminate
[5:11:27] um storage room mill work. So instead of
[5:11:29] builtins, the storage room because it's
[5:11:31] a storage room. Um they suggested taking
[5:11:34] that out and using like gorilla gorilla
[5:11:37] racks. With respect, mayor, the next
[5:11:38] four items were all internal functional
[5:11:40] items from the fire department, and
[5:11:42] they've all agreed that they're fine to
[5:11:44] >> that they would accept those items and
[5:11:45] take the savings.
[5:11:46] >> Yeah. So, boom, boom, boom.
[5:11:47] >> That's helpful.
[5:11:48] >> Now, we're back to
[5:11:49] >> Let me Can we see the very bottom?
[5:11:51] >> Thank you, Chief. That was a
[5:11:53] >> Can you go down to the bottom, please?
[5:11:55] >> Since they
[5:11:57] can get back there,
[5:11:58] >> I think we did. Yes. And then, um,
[5:12:00] >> we did, right? Mhm.
[5:12:02] >> And then to Oh, they also said to
[5:12:04] eliminate the um to accept the um ADA
[5:12:07] benches.
[5:12:13] » Well, you still have to have a bench.
[5:12:15] So,
[5:12:16] >> I don't think you can be a fire.
[5:12:17] >> Okay. So, it's 49
[5:12:18] >> the bench in the bathroom
[5:12:20] >> and then it's $30,000 for the mill work
[5:12:23] >> workers comp.
[5:12:24] >> Okay. Now, we need to go back to the
[5:12:26] mill work.
[5:12:27] >> All right.
[5:12:28] >> Jessica, did you want to Yes or no?
[5:12:30] Since we deleted those other items, it's
[5:12:32] a yes on the mill work.
[5:12:34] >> Yes on the mil work to accept it.
[5:12:35] >> What do you think, Mayor?
[5:12:38] Keep keep it there
[5:12:39] >> to to put it into the red column.
[5:12:42] >> Yeah. So, you want So, you're
[5:12:44] >> I thought this was brought up by Chrissy
[5:12:45] and Jessica to begin with.
[5:12:48] >> So, mine wasn't Chrissy is that
[5:12:50] detailed. Mine is It can be simpler.
[5:12:52] >> Yes.
[5:12:53] >> It wasn't ever a $30,000. So mine was
[5:12:56] kind of a simple
[5:12:57] >> the way I looked at it is when we went
[5:12:59] over to Lehi and looked at their EOC
[5:13:02] because it's also a community room for
[5:13:04] them also is that you need they not they
[5:13:07] have cabinets but we not only need
[5:13:09] cabinets but they need to be lockable
[5:13:11] for certain things because you have
[5:13:14] various organizations that are renting
[5:13:16] that room or using that room and you
[5:13:18] don't want your radios broken. You don't
[5:13:20] want your equipment, like if we're
[5:13:22] having exercise classes, maybe all the
[5:13:25] yoga blocks go into one of the lock
[5:13:27] cabinets and you don't have to worry
[5:13:29] about kids going in there and taking
[5:13:31] them out and breaking them or whatnot
[5:13:33] that I feel like it's a necessity and
[5:13:35] it's a functional thing as far as what
[5:13:38] goes on top. It could be much simpler.
[5:13:40] So, what if we just gave ourselves a
[5:13:41] $20,000 budget and we could build what
[5:13:44] we need with that instead of 30,000 and
[5:13:48] then we'd have to work within that
[5:13:49] parameter.
[5:13:51] >> Can I suggest something?
[5:13:52] >> Yeah,
[5:13:53] >> we can do something in the drawing
[5:13:54] called a bid alternate or an allowance.
[5:13:56] >> So, we do what you're saying is hold an
[5:13:58] allowance
[5:13:59] >> and that dollars are just spent for the
[5:14:00] UT use to retain someone. But to my
[5:14:02] point earlier, you've already retained
[5:14:05] design team and expertise to have this
[5:14:07] designed out cohesively as part of the
[5:14:08] whole project. So we could do it as a
[5:14:11] build alternate where we design it, have
[5:14:13] those costs allocated separately. If you
[5:14:15] decide you want to take that on the GMP
[5:14:17] day when you have all costs come in, you
[5:14:19] can. If not, you put it aside.
[5:14:22] >> Okay, let's do that.
[5:14:23] >> Do we do that to the roof, too? Oh, just
[5:14:24] kidding.
[5:14:25] >> Yes.
[5:14:27] we could.
[5:14:29] I think she's the only one on the roof,
[5:14:31] so I'm sorry she's alone on that one.
[5:14:33] >> You could do the whole thing at it, but
[5:14:34] I wouldn't suggest that. But
[5:14:39] » okay,
[5:14:39] >> I dream big.
[5:14:42] >> So, I'm wondering if you could do because
[5:14:48] I think there is acknowledgement at
[5:14:49] least from the majority of council that
[5:14:51] there needs to be some kind of mill
[5:14:53] work. So, can you put a note in that
[5:14:56] it's a bit alternate, but with at least
[5:14:58] 20,000 to cover the locked um cabinets
[5:15:02] along the bottom half.
[5:15:05] Okay.
[5:15:09] I think we're good, right?
[5:15:14] » Yes.
[5:15:16] >> Rejected that.
[5:15:18] >> Okay. Is there anything else?
[5:15:20] >> So, we're at 4889 plus 900. Yes.
[5:15:28] » Oh, what about for the additional
[5:15:30] glazing that um Jessica asked for on the
[5:15:32] south end?
[5:15:33] >> That's captured in this because
[5:15:34] >> it is in the 50
[5:15:35] >> just reducing the savings by $50,000,
[5:15:38] not adding to it.
[5:15:39] >> Okay. But that's covering So that's
[5:15:41] covering all the glazing the additional
[5:15:44] that was not in your original. Okay. I
[5:15:46] just wanted to make sure because I
[5:15:47] didn't want it to be like, wait, what
[5:15:49] happened to that? Okay, perfect. And
[5:15:50] then later on, mayor, we can reach out
[5:15:53] to you guys to ask about the
[5:15:55] construction costs to maybe try to help
[5:15:57] with those.
[5:15:58] >> No,
[5:16:00] >> that's why we have them. That's what
[5:16:01] they're going to be doing. What we did
[5:16:03] now is what
[5:16:05] >> questions. Is that okay to ask
[5:16:07] questions?
[5:16:08] >> We've been here 5 hours and 15 minutes.
[5:16:10] Can I make a motion?
[5:16:11] >> Yes. Go ahead.
[5:16:12] >> Um, how do I come up with the number
[5:16:13] amount though, Shane? Help me with that
[5:16:17] >> with the total that he has. Can I just
[5:16:20] maybe help Andrew clarify his question?
[5:16:22] You were saying like if they know people
[5:16:23] if we know people that could bid for
[5:16:25] them. Is that what you're saying?
[5:16:26] >> There are probably some public questions
[5:16:27] they don't want to answer like margins
[5:16:28] and stuff and we can help. It'll help us
[5:16:31] with all this.
[5:16:31] >> Yeah, let's take that offline.
[5:16:32] >> Well, that's why I was asking how I
[5:16:34] contact them to ask them.
[5:16:36] >> Shane, will you help me fill in that
[5:16:38] number and I'll make the motion.
[5:16:39] >> Uh, is it
[5:16:41] >> Do you want the screen?
[5:16:42] >> I think I had four.
[5:16:44] >> He has it right here. 5.794. Is that the
[5:16:47] right
[5:16:48] >> uh just the number?
[5:16:50] >> What the heck is that?
[5:16:51] >> Yeah. 4889
[5:16:53] 602.
[5:16:54] >> Yeah, that's the current cost.
[5:16:55] >> Is that the number that we have now?
[5:16:57] >> Okay, I'm going to I'm going to round.
[5:16:59] Okay, so I'm going to do 5.9. That gives
[5:17:02] us an extra extra 11,000.
[5:17:05] >> Does that include the 20,000 for the
[5:17:07] milwork?
[5:17:08] >> Are we not talking about the total?
[5:17:09] >> Does this didn't take that out?
[5:17:11] >> We have not taken that out.
[5:17:14] >> So, yeah, to approve the total. Yes. for
[5:17:16] the
[5:17:16] >> I thought Yeah, I thought it was
[5:17:18] >> it's the total. This is just for
[5:17:19] construction, but we're going to do all
[5:17:20] of that.
[5:17:20] >> Can you show me that number one more
[5:17:22] time so I can read it into the minutes?
[5:17:24] >> So you could say not exceeding 5.9.
[5:17:27] >> Oh, we're not adding the 900,000 that
[5:17:29] he's been doing.
[5:17:30] >> We can't. That number would be
[5:17:32] >> 589
[5:17:35] 602.
[5:17:36] >> Okay. So if I not exceed,
[5:17:38] >> you're right because we need to make the
[5:17:40] provision for the $20,000 allowance for
[5:17:43] the community room. So he's doing that
[5:17:44] right now. And and while he does that
[5:17:46] there
[5:17:46] >> that's why I was going to round you know
[5:17:48] like you know what I mean
[5:17:51] >> not to exceed a certain amount.
[5:17:53] >> Yeah. Can I put not to exceed is it
[5:17:55] this? Is it the 5.8?
[5:17:57] >> Yes. Okay.
[5:17:59] >> 5 million. Okay. I'm going to make my
[5:18:01] motion.
[5:18:01] >> Yep. I move to accept the following cost
[5:18:04] strategies and have a target budget of
[5:18:08] 5,800
[5:18:11] and
[5:18:13] 20,000.
[5:18:14] No, 30,000 because we need the
[5:18:16] contingent. Okay. No, 5,820,000
[5:18:22] with a contingency of 10,000
[5:18:26] extra for mill work.
[5:18:29] >> It's 20,000.
[5:18:32] >> Oh, I thought we were guaranteeing the
[5:18:34] 20 and to go up to 30 you needed 10.
[5:18:36] >> You need 10. That's correct because you
[5:18:38] meant 20 back in.
[5:18:39] >> That's correct.
[5:18:40] >> Sorry.
[5:18:40] >> You are correct.
[5:18:43] >> You're the account.
[5:18:45] >> Okay. For the fire station edition
[5:18:48] community center project.
[5:18:50] We have
[5:18:52] a motion. I'm so tired. Is there a
[5:18:55] second?
[5:18:56] >> Well, just one question on
[5:18:57] >> No, we've got a motion. Let's I'm asking
[5:18:59] for a second and then we'll have a
[5:19:00] discussion. Okay.
[5:19:01] >> Okay.
[5:19:02] >> I'll second.
[5:19:03] >> Okay. We've got a motion by Councilwoman
[5:19:05] Haniman, second by Councilwoman Spewan.
[5:19:08] >> Did you have a question?
[5:19:10] >> Yes. Does this allot where the donations
[5:19:14] come into play or is it all just saying
[5:19:19] we are approving this for all city funds
[5:19:22] to pay for this or does it include
[5:19:25] >> this is
[5:19:25] >> at budget time? Will we will we look at
[5:19:27] all this and figure out where we move?
[5:19:28] >> It doesn't say where it comes from.
[5:19:30] >> No, it doesn't. We're not allocating.
[5:19:32] >> It allows them to move forward.
[5:19:34] >> Thank you.
[5:19:34] >> They need to move forward.
[5:19:36] >> Ask a question and clarify like we I
[5:19:39] mean we're down to the like just
[5:19:41] essentials, right? There's no other way
[5:19:43] we can cut things, right? We're this is as good as it gets
[5:19:47] >> for the luxury water beds and um remote
[5:19:50] control.
[5:19:51] >> Well, that was why I wanted to ask about
[5:19:52] the construction cost, the big five
[5:19:54] million that I is like a black box.
[5:19:57] >> It's I mean like we're going down to you
[5:19:59] know they're not having drywall. They're
[5:20:00] not I mean we're
[5:20:01] >> okay. I just I just want to make sure
[5:20:04] this it becomes scope.
[5:20:05] >> Do we cut out space? Do we cut out
[5:20:07] program?
[5:20:08] >> And we have to question the size of
[5:20:11] >> I I believe the best route Shane you can
[5:20:13] tell me differently but if you go
[5:20:14] through Shane there's there's a
[5:20:15] conversation that we can have that
[5:20:16] there's
[5:20:17] >> Yeah,
[5:20:17] >> sounds good.
[5:20:18] >> There's contracts that are separate
[5:20:19] between contractor and architect that
[5:20:21] I'm sure
[5:20:22] >> Shane loves when I reach out to him.
[5:20:26] Okay, so we've got a motion and a
[5:20:28] second. Let's proceed with a roll call
[5:20:31] vote.
[5:20:31] >> Chrissy Henman, yes.
[5:20:33] >> Andrew Young, no. Bren Remler, yes.
[5:20:35] >> Jessica Smuan, yes.
[5:20:39] » Sarah Blackwell, yes.
[5:20:41] >> Okay, motion passes.
[5:20:43] Okay, let's last item. Public hearing
[5:20:47] ordinance.
[5:20:48] >> Thank you for your patience.
[5:20:49] >> Oh, yes. Thank you guys. I'm sorry. Now
[5:20:51] all I can think about is let's get this
[5:20:53] done. Thank you guys.
[5:20:54] >> Thanks for coming.
[5:20:56] >> Can't wait.
[5:21:09] » So, we are
[5:21:10] >> $400 million bond.
[5:21:12] >> Oh, the school. Okay, we are moving on
[5:21:16] with um ordinance 2026-07
[5:21:21] » um adjustment for our midyear budget for
[5:21:25] fiscal year 2026.
[5:21:28] >> Yeah. So, this this is just kind of a
[5:21:29] cleanup um for our budget. Uh we have
[5:21:33] advertised the public hearing. So, that
[5:21:35] was noticed properly which the mayor can
[5:21:38] start as soon as I explain the four
[5:21:40] items. Um, the first one is we received
[5:21:43] the million-doll grant for street
[5:21:45] maintenance and so this is just bringing
[5:21:47] that into our budget because we
[5:21:50] overspent that knowing that we would be
[5:21:52] doing this at some point. We do have the
[5:21:54] funds. We received those in um December
[5:21:59] and we did the project last fall. Um,
[5:22:03] next one uh charges for services. We had
[5:22:06] a discrepancy
[5:22:07] in our um solid waste area where our
[5:22:12] revenue and expenses didn't match and we
[5:22:15] I I had a mistake in the GL that was
[5:22:18] listed on what went out the packet. I
[5:22:20] emailed late this afternoon and then put
[5:22:22] a copy on your desk that corrected GL.
[5:22:25] It just shows that coming from fund
[5:22:27] balance. In reality, it will just come
[5:22:29] from revenues through waste collection.
[5:22:33] >> Oh yeah.
[5:22:35] Uh yeah. Yep. So I there's the edit and
[5:22:39] then there's a clean clean copy on your
[5:22:41] desk.
[5:22:42] >> The third one um we we over spent class
[5:22:46] E roads just a little bit by 39,100.
[5:22:49] So that would be coming just from that
[5:22:51] fund balance.
[5:22:51] >> You mean 29,000?
[5:22:53] >> Um yeah,
[5:22:55] >> right.
[5:22:56] >> For some reason I think I had a mistake
[5:22:58] on the cover sheet.
[5:23:00] Um let me just look at my budget really
[5:23:03] quick. Well, one of them it's either the um packet or the form
[5:23:08] the exhibit A.
[5:23:09] >> Yeah, let me just look in here.
[5:23:19] » Yeah, 29100. It's over spent by 29,000
[5:23:24] and almost $2, but just rounded it to
[5:23:27] 29100.
[5:23:30] Um
[5:23:32] and then the fourth one, um last fall,
[5:23:36] uh we had a storm drain project that was
[5:23:38] finishing up and we got thinking they
[5:23:40] gave us such a good bid, we should get a
[5:23:42] price to do this other project brought
[5:23:44] at the council was approved. This is
[5:23:46] adjusting more funds from fund balance
[5:23:48] to cover that project that was
[5:23:50] completed. Um and that's those are the
[5:23:53] four items. Okay, we I'll open the um
[5:23:57] public hearing for our midyear budget
[5:24:01] adjustment.
[5:24:02] Is there anyone that would like to make
[5:24:04] a statement regarding our midyear budget
[5:24:06] adjustment?
[5:24:12] So um in the absence of any comments and
[5:24:18] lack of public I will close the public
[5:24:21] hearing
[5:24:22] and um I'll entertain a motion.
[5:24:26] >> We don't discuss it all before
[5:24:28] >> I you know I think let's start with a
[5:24:29] motion and then we can discuss
[5:24:31] >> to approve ordinance 2026-07
[5:24:34] including the proposed mid-year budget
[5:24:35] adjustment. Is there a second?
[5:24:38] >> I'll second.
[5:24:39] >> All second. Chrissy Hanimman.
[5:24:40] >> It's been moved by Councilman Rumler,
[5:24:42] seconded by Councilwoman Haniman. Let's
[5:24:44] proceed with um discussion or questions.
[5:24:48] >> I have none.
[5:24:49] >> Uh Shane, on the storm drain fund that
[5:24:51] 215, can you just briefly explain what
[5:24:54] that is only because I'm getting more
[5:24:56] into storm drains.
[5:24:57] >> What project we did?
[5:24:58] >> Yeah. Yeah. What what did the was the
[5:25:00] work they did?
[5:25:01] >> So, the extra work was over on
[5:25:03] Canterbury Lane. Uh we there's a very
[5:25:07] flat uh section of road over there that
[5:25:10] we continually had puddling water and um
[5:25:14] we just extended the storm drain up to
[5:25:17] catch that water and eliminate that
[5:25:19] problem.
[5:25:20] >> And am I right that was 215k to do that?
[5:25:23] seems like a lot to do that.
[5:25:25] >> It's a lot of money when you're digging
[5:25:26] through roads and asphalt and existing
[5:25:29] utilities and and everything. So, but
[5:25:32] they the price was excellent. We had bid
[5:25:34] that that little storm drain project
[5:25:36] thinking we might just get a handful of
[5:25:38] biders and seems like we had eight or 10
[5:25:41] biders. We had
[5:25:42] >> and that was like the low 219
[5:25:44] >> is very competitive. Um really good
[5:25:47] price and that's why we suggested doing
[5:25:49] this other one.
[5:25:50] >> That's a lot. Uh general fund class C
[5:25:52] roads the 29 grand that was is that the
[5:25:55] work we did that is making the roads
[5:25:58] putting that top coat on them. So that's
[5:26:00] from the top coat. It's it's a
[5:26:01] combination of overlays, sil coats, all
[5:26:05] of our different uh road maintenance,
[5:26:08] >> and it just went over the price for them
[5:26:10] to do all that everywhere.
[5:26:12] And then um the the general charges for
[5:26:17] services, the 28 grand, that was just
[5:26:19] the mishap on the uh um
[5:26:23] >> in the budget.
[5:26:24] for the uh um
[5:26:28] >> revenue versus expenses and garbage.
[5:26:30] >> Yeah, for the garbage. That's right. For
[5:26:32] the garbage. So, we just missed that.
[5:26:34] >> Y
[5:26:34] >> uh Okay, I think that's the only
[5:26:36] questions I had. Thank you. Okay, Brent,
[5:26:40] Jessica,
[5:26:42] >> no.
[5:26:43] >> Oh, last question. Sorry. I apologize to
[5:26:45] do that. Uh, and these were all projects
[5:26:48] you guys previously approved, right?
[5:26:50] That these
[5:26:52] uh
[5:26:54] projects and we're just like redoing the
[5:26:56] accounting. Right.
[5:26:58] >> Correct.
[5:27:00] >> When you do these,
[5:27:02] you approve them for a certain amount
[5:27:04] and then they just go over. So, is this
[5:27:06] why we have to do this? We have to
[5:27:08] >> we have to correct it.
[5:27:10] >> Some of these. No. Right. Like for the
[5:27:12] class C roads. Yes. That went over storm drain. That was an additional
[5:27:16] project that came to council
[5:27:18] >> and council approved it.
[5:27:20] >> Okay. And then we're just ratifying the
[5:27:22] difference in money
[5:27:24] >> because we didn't account for that in
[5:27:26] our budget right
[5:27:27] >> back then. But taking advantage of the
[5:27:29] labor force that's here and of the good
[5:27:32] pricing.
[5:27:33] >> It was suggested that we move forward
[5:27:35] with
[5:27:35] >> it. Is this all money that will go into
[5:27:37] the 2020 20 I'm sorry 2025 2026 budget
[5:27:40] or will this go into the 2026 2027
[5:27:43] budget
[5:27:44] >> current budget year
[5:27:45] >> that we're in right now until July.
[5:27:46] Okay. All right. Thank you. That's all.
[5:27:48] >> We're going to talk about fund balance
[5:27:50] more often but these are coming the the
[5:27:53] not the first one but the next three,
[5:27:56] right?
[5:27:57] >> Yep. So the fund balance acts as a
[5:28:00] contingency fund for unexpected things
[5:28:02] that happen during the year. Some things
[5:28:05] cost more, but some things were just a
[5:28:07] good deal and you didn't want to pass up
[5:28:08] like the sale item. So that that's
[5:28:11] exact. We're using the fund balance for
[5:28:12] exactly what it's designed to do is for
[5:28:15] unexpected things or contingency fund.
[5:28:18] So there's nothing really extra. It's
[5:28:20] because we have a fund balance to
[5:28:22] address issues that come along that are
[5:28:24] unexpected.
[5:28:25] >> Thank you.
[5:28:25] >> Yeah. Does that help?
[5:28:27] >> Let's proceed with a roll call vote.
[5:28:28] >> Chrissy Hammond. Yes.
[5:28:31] >> I only because I don't know the details.
[5:28:33] Andrew Young, no.
[5:28:35] >> Ran, yes.
[5:28:36] >> Jessica Sme, yes.
[5:28:37] >> Sarah Blackwell, yes.
[5:28:39] >> Okay.
[5:28:41] Um, ordinance 2026-07 passes. Um, let's
[5:28:45] staff reports. Chief,
[5:28:49] Steve Shane,
[5:28:51] >> I'm just going to send you an email
[5:28:52] tomorrow if it's okay.
[5:28:54] >> Okay. Right.
[5:28:55] >> Nothing. Jessica,
[5:28:58] >> I'm gonna CC everyone on the email that
[5:29:00] Shane's sending and add my email to it.
[5:29:04] >> Maybe that's what we should do because
[5:29:06] it's really late and if we go and talk
[5:29:08] then Andrew is going to be holding
[5:29:10] contempt for going over midnight. No,
[5:29:12] I'm just kidding.
[5:29:13] >> It's true. I I really am watching.
[5:29:14] >> Do you have anything?
[5:29:16] >> No,
[5:29:17] I do. Um I heard from the um sculpture
[5:29:21] garden they have really good updates. I
[5:29:23] will forward you the email. And
[5:29:26] reminder, if you'd like to come to our
[5:29:28] finance committee meeting on Thursday
[5:29:30] morning at 8 to 9:30, it's designed
[5:29:33] specifically for us really because uh
[5:29:36] we're going to be looking at budget.
[5:29:38] Andrew, you're going out of town and um
[5:29:41] what was the other thing we're going to
[5:29:42] do? Budget and just like our financials.
[5:29:45] So, I just want to verbally remind you
[5:29:46] of that meeting and we've already
[5:29:48] noticed it so you can all attend.
[5:29:50] >> Okay? I hope to see you there at 8:00 am
[5:29:52] to 9:30. We're gonna be right on time
[5:29:55] because our presenter has to be in
[5:29:56] Heber.
[5:29:57] >> Okay. Andrew,
[5:29:58] >> you uh Heidi, would you mind bringing up
[5:30:01] the image of the shingles on boxelder
[5:30:04] resident wanted to share with you the
[5:30:06] shingles on Did they already do it?
[5:30:08] >> No, it's not been replaced, but we're
[5:30:09] aware the fire
[5:30:10] >> if you just pull it up, they can see.
[5:30:12] While she's pulling that up, several
[5:30:15] folks have reached out about asking if
[5:30:16] the uh that one uh you understand those
[5:30:19] shingles that I guess they're flaking
[5:30:20] off and going into neighbors yards. So,
[5:30:22] they just wanted me to let you know. So,
[5:30:23] if we can be of any help, let us know.
[5:30:25] >> They've reached that 30 plus years of
[5:30:27] age and live their life.
[5:30:29] >> Chie loves us because it's
[5:30:30] >> Well, and in the future, do we do
[5:30:32] >> Hey, in the future for things like this, is something that you can schedule
[5:30:37] to meet with Shane on and we really
[5:30:39] don't need to. I was just I get them and
[5:30:42] I don't have time so I put them in a
[5:30:43] list and I say, "Okay, at the one point
[5:30:44] I can tell."
[5:30:45] >> I know. But this isn't something that I
[5:30:47] mean it's 11:30 at night. This is
[5:30:49] something that you can just shoot off to
[5:30:50] Shane and say, "Hey, can you take care
[5:30:51] of this?"
[5:30:52] >> Why? Okay. I wasn't going to ask him to.
[5:30:54] Okay. Yes, I understand. Um
[5:30:57] where was I? I Oh, several residents are
[5:31:00] asking to bump up the PI water date. I
[5:31:03] told them I don't know.
[5:31:05] >> Later.
[5:31:05] >> No, make it earlier.
[5:31:06] >> No, earlier.
[5:31:07] >> So, you're the council member overwater.
[5:31:09] You'll be included on a text with the
[5:31:12] other water committee from the
[5:31:13] irrigation company and Greg and myself.
[5:31:16] >> On what day?
[5:31:17] >> We'll be trying to schedule a meeting
[5:31:18] probably next week.
[5:31:19] >> Okay.
[5:31:20] >> To talk about
[5:31:20] >> I I tell them it's between the 10th and
[5:31:22] the 15th. That's correct. Right.
[5:31:24] >> It's several residents are asking for
[5:31:27] the pressurized irrigation turn on day
[5:31:29] to come earlier because they already
[5:31:31] want to start watering.
[5:31:32] >> And I told them I would let you know and
[5:31:35] I will do that more on emails. But I
[5:31:37] >> we talked about that as a water
[5:31:39] committee and we were told that that
[5:31:40] there was a legal agreement that we
[5:31:41] can't do it before April 15th. Are you
[5:31:43] saying that it's up to debate?
[5:31:45] >> We could we never have since the system
[5:31:48] was built. We've never
[5:31:50] you know it might be the 14th because
[5:31:52] Greg's in certain parts town. He's
[5:31:54] filling lines and things, but
[5:31:56] >> it's it's been the 15th every year.
[5:31:59] >> There's not there's not a legal
[5:32:00] restriction. Oh. Uh okay. really quick.
[5:32:04] Uh thank you Heidi for all the Alpine
[5:32:06] Days music suggestions. The followup on
[5:32:09] Smooth Canyon. I sent out an email but
[5:32:11] didn't get a response from anyone about
[5:32:13] the signs at uh Smooth Canyon Park um
[5:32:17] for the dogs that are biting people. Um
[5:32:21] >> Oh, no. We're like we said before, we're
[5:32:23] working on signage for all of our parks.
[5:32:26] It will be standardized and that will be
[5:32:27] >> right. But Don was like, "No, that won't
[5:32:29] work." So I was like, "Shane, let us
[5:32:30] know what would work for. It sounds like
[5:32:32] these can be listed anyway. Sounds like
[5:32:34] you know about it.
[5:32:35] >> Yeah, that that will be one of the
[5:32:37] >> You responded.
[5:32:38] >> Uh not to me.
[5:32:39] >> I thought it was a reply all.
[5:32:41] >> Yeah, I
[5:32:42] >> it's okay. I must have missed it. That's
[5:32:44] okay. The the last ones I can email. Um
[5:32:47] because you've heard of it with
[5:32:48] exception of um if if you want to work
[5:32:52] together on the fences thing, let me let
[5:32:54] me know. It's been there for a while.
[5:32:55] So, let me know if there's any problems.
[5:32:56] That's all.
[5:32:57] >> So, our our new person, our new staff
[5:33:00] member starts next Tuesday. Oh, there
[5:33:02] you go. Okay, thank you. That's all.
[5:33:04] >> Okay.
[5:33:04] >> Appreciate your time.
[5:33:05] >> Don't hate me. I'm sorry. Um, grand marshall is going to open soon and
[5:33:10] you guys decide on the grand marshall.
[5:33:12] So, um, if you want to submit, watch for
[5:33:14] it. But I just want you to know that is on this council that to decide.
[5:33:19] So, um, that's coming.
[5:33:21] >> Thank you. That's very important. I
[5:33:22] nominate Carla Merrell.
[5:33:23] >> No, no, no. I will entertain a motion to
[5:33:26] adjurnn.
[5:33:28] >> Uh, since we're adjourned. Oh, yes. I'll
[5:33:29] move to second.
[5:33:30] >> Okay. Is there a second? Okay. Moved by
[5:33:32] Rummler, seconded by Young.