[0:00] Thank you, Kaden. Like to welcome
[0:01] everybody out here to the uh planning
[0:03] commission meeting being held this
[0:04] Tuesday, June 2nd, 2026, 6 pm uh live
[0:08] here at city hall, 20 North Main Street,
[0:10] Alpine, Utah. Uh let the record reflect
[0:13] that the meeting has been duly and
[0:16] legally noticed.
[0:18] I'd like to um first recognize from the
[0:21] city that we've got with us Marla Fox,
[0:23] Heidi Smith. I think I saw Heidi.
[0:26] >> Not here right now.
[0:27] >> Okay. But but maybe back.
[0:29] >> Okay. Uh Kaden Lions and I think we have
[0:32] Jason Jud via Zoom. Correct.
[0:35] >> Jason has not joined yet.
[0:37] >> All right. Plans on on joining. And then
[0:40] uh uh from planning commission we have
[0:42] Troy Slade, Michelle Shurmer, myself,
[0:45] Alan McDonald, Suz Wittenberg, and we
[0:49] have John McCay on Zoom I believe.
[0:52] >> Yes.
[0:52] >> Okay. And perhaps he'll uh get here and
[0:54] join us live. Uh, and we would excuse
[0:57] from the meeting uh, commission members
[0:59] Greg Butterfield and Jeff Davis.
[1:04] Um, all right. Thank you to everybody
[1:06] for attending. So, uh, let's please
[1:08] start with a prayer which will be
[1:10] offered by Suz Wittenberg followed by
[1:13] the pledge of allegiance led by Oh, John
[1:15] McCay is not here. Perhaps uh, Troy
[1:18] Slade, you could handle that. Thank you.
[1:21] Our Father in heaven, as we gather this
[1:23] evening, we're so grateful for this
[1:25] opportunity we have to be here as as
[1:27] citizens of this great city. We're so
[1:29] grateful for this time of year as it's
[1:31] rolling into this 250 years of
[1:35] celebration of our great country. We're
[1:37] grateful for those that have gone before
[1:39] us and have made our lives so much more
[1:43] enjoyable. We pray that we might add to
[1:45] that spirit of of citizenry and how we
[1:48] treat each other and as we make these
[1:50] different plans and ordinances together
[1:53] that we can be very fair-minded and be
[1:56] very mindful of the stewardship we have
[1:58] as we serve this great city. We're
[2:01] grateful for all of our blessings,
[2:02] Father, and we pray that we can continue
[2:04] to try to be better people and to better
[2:06] be better neighbors. And we ask for thy
[2:08] spirit tonight. And we say this in the
[2:09] name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
[2:11] >> Amen. Okay, please stand and join me in
[2:14] the pledge.
[2:16] >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[2:19] United States of America and to the
[2:21] republic for which it stands, one nation
[2:25] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[2:28] justice for all.
[2:31] >> Okay. Uh before we get started, I just
[2:32] want to make one quick uh note or
[2:35] comment to the planning commission
[2:38] members uh that there was a comment made
[2:40] in city council. Uh I was there this
[2:43] past week or I guess a week ago. Was it
[2:45] a week? I guess it was a week ago. Um
[2:48] discussing some of the fire station
[2:50] issues and and the motion and discussion
[2:52] that had been made in planning
[2:54] commission. But anyway, a couple of the
[2:55] city council members just mentioned that
[2:58] when they go back and listen to the
[2:59] recordings, they can't always hear uh
[3:03] what members of the planning commission
[3:05] say because sometimes we are kind of
[3:08] talking over each other and sometimes uh
[3:12] and and sometimes we don't have our mics
[3:15] on and we aren't talking into our
[3:18] microphones. So, let's just remember
[3:19] that we've got these microphones and
[3:21] they're here for a reason. So, let's use
[3:23] them.
[3:24] then it'll even pick up a whisper. All
[3:27] right, with that, uh let's go ahead and
[3:29] start with just the one and only uh
[3:32] action item that we've got on our agenda
[3:34] tonight, uh which is a review of 5.12
[3:38] commercial site plan. Kaden, can you
[3:41] introduce that for us?
[3:42] >> Most definitely. Thank you,
[3:43] commissioners.
[3:45] So, I'm glad the applicant is here with
[3:47] us as well. So, yeah, just to present
[3:50] this item. Uh this is for a a new
[3:53] commercial site plan for the site at 170
[3:56] South Main Street. Um this is for a new
[4:00] warehouse addition and parking lot for
[4:01] the 512 Foundation, which is a nonprofit
[4:05] organization geared to helping feed
[4:06] children. Uh there's a lot of elementary
[4:09] school kids going hungry on the weekends
[4:11] and so their goal is to provide them
[4:13] with with backpacks full of food for
[4:15] those for those weekends. And this new
[4:19] warehouse will increase the foundation's
[4:21] capacity to reach more children.
[4:23] Um the design uh proposed incorporates
[4:27] modern elements as well as other
[4:29] materials. The applicant has provided a
[4:31] site plan that overall meets the code
[4:33] requirements for the business commercial
[4:35] zone and the gateway historic zone. A
[4:37] few things staff noticed. There might be
[4:39] some need to adjust the materials from
[4:40] any non-conforming materials to the
[4:42] materials that are permitted in the
[4:44] gateway historic design guidelines. And
[4:46] it's also important to note that the
[4:49] applicant meet the landscaping
[4:51] requirements for the BC zone which
[4:52] requires 20% of the site be improved
[4:55] landscaping. Um in the code 407, 408,
[4:59] and 410 have been evaluated and affirmed
[5:02] compliance. So, I guess I'll just scroll
[5:05] down now and
[5:07] show the first elevation
[5:11] or rendering better said of the site.
[5:15] And we'll obviously look at this again.
[5:17] I just thought it'd be good to look at
[5:18] it really quick
[5:22] and going back here.
[5:25] So,
[5:30] um, the staff recommends that the
[5:32] planning commission consider sending a
[5:33] positive recommendation to the city
[5:35] council for the proposed site plan for
[5:36] the new 512 commercial building or
[5:39] addition at 170 South Main Street,
[5:41] subject to the condition that all
[5:43] exterior materials of the building match
[5:44] what is permitted in the gateway
[5:46] historic design guidelines and that 20%
[5:48] of the site be improved landscaping.
[5:51] So, I think that's all I really have to present on this. I'm sure you've
[5:55] looked through this in the packet and
[5:57] have some comments and questions. Um,
[5:59] and the applicant is here. Uh, if you
[6:02] would like to ask them any questions as
[6:03] well, but I I'll open it up for
[6:04] discussion or send it back to you, I
[6:06] should say. Alan.
[6:07] >> Uh, yeah. Um, thank you, Kaden. No, good
[6:10] introduction. Appreciate that. Um, and I
[6:13] am aware of the the charitable
[6:17] activities um of of the group, you know,
[6:22] Nick Greer and and crew, and it is
[6:24] amazing, you know, what they do. Um,
[6:27] with respect to the building,
[6:30] I do I do have some questions that you
[6:34] can just perhaps clarify because I did
[6:37] note in your staff recommendation,
[6:39] Caden, that the city indicates that uh
[6:42] the the planning commission considers
[6:44] sending a positive recommendation
[6:47] uh subject to the condition that all
[6:49] exterior materials of the building match
[6:51] what is permitted in the gateway
[6:53] historic design guidelines.
[6:55] And um I will have a question for you
[6:57] just I want to just confirm the off-
[7:00] streetet parking you know situation and
[7:02] understand what that pad is. But um
[7:06] before we get to that,
[7:09] uh can you go
[7:11] Kaden and pull up what is I think the first couple of renderings of of the
[7:17] elevations. And I think these are both
[7:20] the eastern face, right? One kind of
[7:24] looking at it a little bit south and one
[7:26] a little bit north, but these are both
[7:28] the east east elevation.
[7:31] >> What? So, I see m I see materials that
[7:34] are
[7:36] Sorry, I'm looking on my computer at the
[7:38] same time as you. I see materials that for example to the left here,
[7:42] there's the the two small windows and
[7:44] there's a a dark material. I see
[7:48] concrete
[7:49] and then moving kind of left to right on
[7:52] the building.
[7:54] There's some white trim work around
[7:56] those windows. I'm wondering what you
[7:59] know what materials that exactly is. And
[8:02] then I see some of the brown. Looks like
[8:05] there's either wood or some wood
[8:08] simulation. I just I'm just wondering
[8:10] what what are the various materials that
[8:13] we're looking at.
[8:15] >> Thanks for that question. I'll just pull
[8:17] up the the elevations on this slide
[8:19] here.
[8:24] So the
[8:27] kind of gray or white looking material
[8:28] we just saw on the rendering here on the
[8:31] elevation right here on the east
[8:32] elevation we can see is called cement
[8:35] fiber sighting which is painted.
[8:39] We have a synthetic wood plank,
[8:42] a standing seam metal roof for all this
[8:45] dark black material here,
[8:48] and then over here, a cement fiber
[8:51] sighting, which is painted. So, the same
[8:53] as as this, but just a different style.
[8:55] It looks like a little bit.
[8:58] Um, and then synthetic wood panel here.
[9:01] And then the whole bottom base looks
[9:02] like it is stucco.
[9:08] Is it stuckle or is it cement? I did
[9:11] because well the one the the actually
[9:13] the realistic picture looks like cement
[9:15] or something.
[9:18] >> Let's go back to that and yeah maybe the
[9:19] applicant eventually can clarify that.
[9:23] >> Yeah.
[9:24] >> So from what I understand this is stucco
[9:28] >> although I can see what you're saying
[9:30] Troy or Commissioner Slate that looks
[9:32] like a cement material.
[9:37] Let's go to the next picture as well,
[9:38] just to see.
[9:42] Yeah, from what I understand, this
[9:43] bottom base is stucco, but potentially
[9:46] the applicant can clarify when they when
[9:48] they discuss.
[9:49] >> Okay. Yeah. And with the applicant here,
[9:52] perhaps we can just ask them if they
[9:53] brought any of these uh materials in a
[9:56] sample that we could take a look at, but we'll um Yeah. And just a second.
[10:01] Just just a couple other quick
[10:02] questions. All right. We'll we'll come
[10:04] back to those materials then. Um,
[10:08] can you please go Kaden to the
[10:12] uh just maybe it was the landscape. Um,
[10:17] and I I just wanted to confirm, you
[10:19] know, you and I had a discussion about
[10:21] the off- streetet parking ordinance, and
[10:24] this one's just a little it's a little
[10:26] odd,
[10:28] at least a little different than what we
[10:30] usually do because, if I understand,
[10:33] this is an addition to the existing
[10:36] warehouse that sits on First West, 100
[10:39] West, right?
[10:40] >> That's correct. and they're adding to
[10:42] that and that addition is uh being done
[10:46] with parking on a parcel that fronts
[10:49] Main Street. So that brings obviously
[10:51] Main Street and the Gateway Historic
[10:53] District guidelines into play. Um just a
[10:57] quick question and then you know we can
[10:59] understand the the landscape uh plan in
[11:02] a minute here but
[11:04] this
[11:06] up in the the norththeast
[11:10] corner let's see future building
[11:12] location native grass reveation seed mix
[11:15] to be provided to all disturbed areas
[11:18] this location is future building
[11:19] construction. So, do we understand that that there's more or less a a
[11:25] building pad up there in that northwest
[11:29] northeast corner, sorry, along Main
[11:31] Street where a future office building is
[11:37] proposed or intended to be constructed
[11:40] >> some undetermined time.
[11:41] >> That is the city's understanding. Yes.
[11:43] >> Okay.
[11:44] Um
[11:48] the the parking does not encroach into
[11:51] the setback.
[11:52] >> It does not according to the business
[11:54] commercial zone.
[11:55] >> Yeah.
[11:55] >> So there's no exception required like
[11:59] we've seen from time to time in other
[12:02] commercial buildings. It's just an odd
[12:04] one then be so we will I mean the the
[12:07] parking the park the parking lot and the
[12:09] cars will be visible from Main Street.
[12:14] It just happens to be an oddity of this
[12:17] particular project that
[12:21] the building there's a building pad but
[12:23] not a building currently proposed to be
[12:25] built. But otherwise there's no issue
[12:28] that we need to look at as far as off-
[12:29] streetet parking. I just want to confirm
[12:31] that.
[12:32] >> Yeah. From from our review, there was no
[12:34] uh there was no issue. In fact, it's
[12:36] obviously much more parking than is
[12:38] needed for this building currently
[12:40] >> with a future anticipation. But yeah.
[12:43] >> Okay.
[12:44] >> All right. Those are the only questions
[12:46] that I think I had for Kaden. Uh anybody
[12:49] else have questions for Kaden now before
[12:52] perhaps we invite the applicant to the
[12:54] podium?
[12:57] If we
[13:00] if you were to I know you say there's
[13:02] more than enough parking now, but if
[13:04] that future site became
[13:07] a large building, would the parking
[13:10] still stand and be fine?
[13:14] >> That's a good question, Commissioner. I feel like right now at this time, it's
[13:18] hard to say.
[13:18] >> I know.
[13:19] >> Depending on the building,
[13:20] >> that's the problem.
[13:21] >> Yeah. Is is this and is the 20%
[13:27] landscaping
[13:29] are we going to take the 20%
[13:32] on because we can't count that future
[13:35] pad as the 20% in my opinion the 20%
[13:39] landscaping should be and should come
[13:42] from
[13:44] the current site minus that because if
[13:48] that got built with just a little strip
[13:51] of of of vegetation, then when the whole
[13:56] project is complete, it won't be 20%.
[14:01] So
[14:01] >> that's a fair point.
[14:03] >> So that's just one of my thoughts on
[14:05] that parking and vegetation with our two
[14:09] kind ordinances. So, if you took that
[14:12] currently landscaped, what I'm just
[14:14] calling a future building pad out of the
[14:17] equation,
[14:20] I mean, I I think Michelle makes a great
[14:22] point. Is the landscape plan in
[14:27] compliance?
[14:29] >> From from my review, I don't think it
[14:31] currently meets the 20% requirement. Um,
[14:36] but I I probably could try to do a more
[14:41] robust calculation on that to see
[14:43] exactly what percent they're at. I
[14:45] haven't had the chance to do that right
[14:46] now, but maybe the applicant can address
[14:48] that as well,
[14:49] >> you know, and I suppose that they're
[14:51] look,
[14:52] remind me, is is it a 10 or 20 foot
[14:54] setback off of Main Street?
[14:56] >> It is a 15 for the front.
[14:59] >> So, in other words, neither,
[15:00] >> right?
[15:01] >> I I bracketed it 15 foot. So if you took
[15:04] for example Michelle I I mean I suppose
[15:05] if you took 15 foot 15 feet of that
[15:09] setback assumed it was landscaped and
[15:13] you took it down the length of that pad.
[15:16] It's just I mean I think Michelle raises
[15:18] just a really good point which is
[15:23] wi with those assumptions in mind
[15:27] in the future
[15:29] will there I mean will this landscape
[15:32] plan meet code
[15:36] >> I'm sorry I didn't have someone else ask
[15:38] me
[15:38] >> I mean you you should probably answer
[15:39] that not me but I just I mean wouldn't
[15:42] we just approve it on what they're
[15:43] asking for now and then in the future
[15:45] Sure. It as long as they're aware like
[15:48] look, you know, you might have to
[15:50] totally change your plans because you're
[15:52] going to have to meet it.
[15:54] You know, I don't know. Is that our
[15:57] responsibility?
[15:58] >> I think that's a good point. I think um
[16:01] yeah, basically it would just have to
[16:02] meet the code as is today. If there's
[16:05] 20% landscaping on the site today, then
[16:08] it could be approved and it should be
[16:10] approved for the landscaping part of it.
[16:12] Um and then everything else can be dealt
[16:14] with at a future date. I would agree
[16:15] with that.
[16:16] >> I have a comment to your first point,
[16:18] Michelle. The accommodation of the
[16:19] parking is concerning to me.
[16:22] >> Back to the microphone because I it's
[16:24] just we just don't know what size
[16:26] building would we that seems like a lot.
[16:28] When I first wrote I was like, that's
[16:29] ample parking for that. But down the
[16:32] road, it's one thing to add some more
[16:34] maybe some greenscaping, but are you
[16:36] going to put in a lot more a bigger
[16:39] >> Well,
[16:40] >> parking area.
[16:41] >> Yeah. I I mean, but but I I think you're
[16:43] right, but two things.
[16:46] Correct me if I'm wrong, Kane, but I
[16:48] think there's is that 80.
[16:50] Does this does this plan call for 80
[16:52] parking spaces? Is that how many it is?
[16:55] >> So, it's four for every,000 square feet.
[17:00] Um the building is 6,000 square feet.
[17:04] So
[17:06] >> yeah, that would be like what do 24
[17:08] parking spots, but this is as proposed
[17:10] it's 80,
[17:11] >> right?
[17:11] >> 88 I think is the right number. So I
[17:13] mean I think there's like like even if
[17:15] you put a building in there, there's
[17:17] going to be plenty of parking.
[17:18] >> What is the size of the existing
[17:20] building?
[17:23] >> I am not sure on that. I can't remember
[17:27] >> because it's on the plan here somewhere.
[17:30] the parking for that building is to
[17:33] code. But I still think if you took that
[17:35] building and the existing building
[17:37] because they only have like what nine or
[17:39] 10 spots and if it's so I just yeah it's
[17:44] probably still fine but it should be
[17:47] based upon the two buildings now in
[17:50] total square footage um not just the new
[17:56] >> That's a good point commissioner. Thank
[17:57] you.
[17:59] >> I mean, can we do some mathing? Do we
[18:02] have any idea? Um, perhaps the applicant
[18:05] here knows what the current square
[18:06] footage of the existing building is.
[18:11] Do we know that? Just to run a quick
[18:12] calc on parking.
[18:14] >> Say it's around 6,000 square feet.
[18:16] >> Yeah, I was going to say it's not
[18:17] gigantic.
[18:18] >> I'll tell you this.
[18:20] >> You want me to come up?
[18:21] >> Oh, sure. Yeah.
[18:24] and and just state your name and and um
[18:26] welcome.
[18:27] >> My name is JD Hiner with Silver Fox
[18:29] Construction.
[18:37] » This isn't hooked to anything
[18:39] buttons.
[18:40] >> Oh, I they should be on if you just talk
[18:43] to There we go.
[18:44] >> There we go.
[18:45] >> All right. Um
[18:45] >> and I'm sorry, it was JD.
[18:47] >> JD. Yeah. Okay. Uh naturally as we look
[18:50] to um even the future plan and future
[18:54] phase, we built into this analysis what
[18:58] we anticipate a building like that being
[19:00] sized at.
[19:01] >> Um with that sizing, we built all the
[19:03] parking off that and there was ample
[19:05] parking even with the existing building,
[19:07] the addition and a new new building. In
[19:09] fact, we had some communication before
[19:11] Kaden came um with um
[19:15] >> not well Ryan as well, but who is the
[19:18] other gentleman we met? Shane.
[19:19] >> Jason.
[19:20] >> Shane.
[19:21] >> Um Shane as well around parking
[19:23] requirements. It's a little ambiguous
[19:25] actually for this use as well. Given
[19:27] it's not office, it's it's warehouse,
[19:30] but it doesn't house employees. And so
[19:32] we we talked through a lot of
[19:33] >> it does it now, but in the future it
[19:35] always could.
[19:35] >> It always could. Yeah. And I'm not
[19:37] saying that, you know, that would
[19:38] dictate other than to say, you know,
[19:39] there was a lot of conversation around
[19:40] the use, a lot of conversation around
[19:43] the the zoning requirements kind of not,
[19:46] you know, really defining defining it
[19:48] well and and we took a route of just
[19:50] making sure there's ample for both the
[19:53] current use and future use.
[19:54] >> Yeah, JD, that would be my question. So,
[19:56] I've been there a lot when Yeah. at
[19:57] night with groups and it's hard to find
[19:59] parking. So, I'm assuming you're going
[20:01] to somehow connect the existing
[20:03] warehouse. You don't that's coming off
[20:05] of First West, right? You park along
[20:08] there and then would you just somehow
[20:10] they'll be able to park? I know that
[20:11] that's opened up a little bit already,
[20:13] but there's got to be a way to get that
[20:15] access right from the entrance of the first house, the current warehouse.
[20:20] >> Yeah, there's entrances now on both
[20:22] sides. Um, obviously with the temporary
[20:26] parking lot they put there. Um, there's
[20:28] ample parking now as well. You know,
[20:30] most I think I think on,
[20:32] >> you know, peak type night, they probably
[20:33] have 70 or so volunteers. Most of them
[20:36] come in suburbans and a group of about
[20:38] seven. And so there certainly certainly
[20:40] before that asphalt was laid, parking
[20:42] may have been a bigger issue, but
[20:43] parking is not an issue now.
[20:45] >> But there's access to get into
[20:46] >> and there is access on both sides. Yeah.
[20:48] And I think Suz that main access in the
[20:51] future once this building is finished
[20:53] will be off of Main Street and we'll be
[20:55] on the east side
[20:57] >> because Yeah, because there's just Yeah,
[20:59] exactly. So, but so all right. So,
[21:01] Kaden, if we just assumed I mean I don't
[21:04] know if you had a chance to run the
[21:05] math, but if we just assumed that the addition is 6,000 ft, the existing
[21:09] building is 6,000 ft. I mean, even give
[21:12] it seven or eight and and you run your
[21:14] math. What's the um what's the required
[21:18] parking? I'm just going to assume it's
[21:20] going to come in much less than 88.
[21:22] >> Yeah, I think it's that'd be 48 if my
[21:25] math brain is working.
[21:26] >> All right. And and then I think to
[21:27] Troy's point, I mean, don't know what's
[21:30] going to happen in the future with that,
[21:31] but whatever happens in the future will
[21:34] be subject to um the landscape requiring
[21:39] percentage and will also be subject to
[21:42] uh you know the parking. So the size of
[21:44] that building is going to be um somewhat
[21:47] determined by the by compliance with um
[21:52] landscape requirements and parking
[21:53] requirements. But I don't think it's
[21:55] anything that that we can necessarily um
[21:58] look at today other than just what's in
[22:00] front of us. So that future building,
[22:02] whatever the plan is for that pad in
[22:04] that future building, we'll just have to
[22:05] comply at that point with um those
[22:08] ordinances.
[22:08] >> That's I think that's right.
[22:11] >> Okay.
[22:12] >> Um
[22:14] uh John, welcome. You were you were hit
[22:17] you were breaking a few laws trying you
[22:19] know.
[22:20] >> Well, don't actually 15 gets shut down
[22:22] in both directions. Oh jeez, that's
[22:24] going to come up tomorrow.
[22:26] >> Wow, that's crazy.
[22:27] >> Well, welcome John. Um,
[22:29] >> I'll also note that Jason joined the
[22:31] Zoom call.
[22:31] >> Welcome Jason. Um, okay. So, John, I
[22:36] think you were listening on Zoom and
[22:37] don't know if there's anything you need
[22:38] to be up to speed on before we keep
[22:40] rolling.
[22:41] >> I have one general question. Um,
[22:45] are these is this one lot or is this are
[22:48] these two lots that we're putting a
[22:49] building across?
[22:51] >> It's one lot. Okay. Yeah, very good.
[22:56] >> That was really my question.
[22:59] >> Usually you have a building. Oh, sorry.
[23:01] >> No, no, you you go.
[23:02] >> No, no, you go.
[23:04] >> Okay. All right. Um, so the view I was
[23:08] going to talk about the view. Do you
[23:09] have something before I shift gears?
[23:11] >> Well, it's just usually you would have a
[23:13] building on Main Street that would hide
[23:15] the parking lot behind it so that the
[23:18] street front has a beautiful Main Street
[23:21] view. The problem with this plan is
[23:24] because that office building is in the
[23:26] future that would finish the main street
[23:28] view as you walk down. Then all we see
[23:32] is the parking lot. So, can we flip or
[23:37] require that landscaping to be the
[23:40] buffer so that we don't just see parking
[23:44] lot because right now
[23:48] this building may not go in for 5 10
[23:52] years. We don't know. And so I I guess
[23:56] that's my struggle is that it's
[24:00] open parking lot. Are you thinking to
[24:01] require uh some additional landscaping
[24:06] along in that pad to perhaps be for
[24:09] example
[24:10] couple trees even though maybe later
[24:12] they'll be taken down or a hedge or
[24:14] >> well there's already
[24:16] >> or a or a wall or
[24:18] >> there's already vegetation that's going
[24:20] to be removed when they combine this
[24:22] building because there's beautiful
[24:23] vegetation on the east side of their
[24:26] existing building that's going to have
[24:28] to come down to com I just think that
[24:32] this our view of the city's view is of
[24:38] an entrance that will probably be used
[24:40] by the semi-truckss. Is that where
[24:42] they're going to start flipping and
[24:44] using that entrance? They going to use
[24:46] the main street entrance or are they
[24:47] going to continue their first west
[24:49] entrance?
[24:49] >> Yeah, so we don't typically have semi
[24:51] trucks coming in. We do have some box
[24:53] >> box trucks. Um, you know, the
[24:55] alternative is what we have now, which
[24:58] is a parking lot and an existing
[25:00] building. So, you are going to get a
[25:01] much nicer looking building with much
[25:03] nicer looking landscaping. Um, the
[25:06] challenge is we can't put 512 out on the
[25:08] street right now because there's some,
[25:10] you know, process and in, you know,
[25:13] warehousing and whatnot. You can't have
[25:15] two buildings. And I think ultimately,
[25:17] if you've seen any of the projects Nick
[25:19] Greer has been involved in, he does
[25:21] intend to put a family office there. And
[25:23] I suspect it's going to look really
[25:24] nice. So, in the meantime, it'll look
[25:26] better than it does today
[25:29] and it'll actually look really good.
[25:31] >> Yeah. So, Michelle, I mean, I mean, I I
[25:34] had those same thoughts and I discussed
[25:35] them with Kaden beforehand and then
[25:37] reviewed the off- streetet parking and
[25:41] I'm very I mean, I'm totally agree with
[25:43] your comment. I'm just not sure that our
[25:47] ordin I mean as as proposed
[25:52] the project
[25:55] checks all the boxes on the off-
[25:56] streetet parking. Um I guess I can just
[26:00] think of a couple of sit, you know, a
[26:01] couple of situations like the bank has a
[26:03] few parking spots that are, you know,
[26:07] they're right on Main Street. Um
[26:11] so does the city center. So does the
[26:13] gold and silver building across the way.
[26:15] I mean, at some point, you know, again,
[26:19] I I don't know what Nick's timing is. It
[26:22] sounds like he's thinking about putting
[26:23] a, you know, Greer Enterprises. Pretty
[26:26] soon he'll, you know, pretty much he and
[26:28] Elon will run the planet. But, um, but
[26:31] it sounds like at some point there may
[26:32] be a a Greer family office there. I
[26:35] don't know a timeline on that. I just
[26:37] don't know that the that what you're
[26:40] saying is
[26:43] in in the code.
[26:46] >> Um yeah. Is the is the ballard and the
[26:50] lock chain always going to be there or
[26:52] will that be removed?
[26:54] >> Well, if if the school keeps parking
[26:56] over there, it makes you it makes it a
[26:58] challenge on Wednesday nights when they
[27:00] need to use it for their uses. So, you
[27:02] know, I I don't know. That'll be up to
[27:05] the Greer family whether they want to
[27:06] keep that there once 512's this
[27:09] addition's been done, but it has been a
[27:10] challenge um for them when people are
[27:13] pulling up to do their work on a
[27:14] Wednesday night and the parking lots
[27:15] filled due to a school activity. So, I
[27:17] anticipate yes, it will stay there for
[27:19] at least for now.
[27:20] >> Okay. Um Okay. While we have JD, um do
[27:24] we have I want to have a chat with him
[27:27] about materials.
[27:29] >> Yes. Yeah. Let's not move to that. Let's
[27:31] get all the other questions done first.
[27:35] Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. So, the term
[27:38] you're using is reveation seed. Is that
[27:42] be kind of like a an erosion barrier
[27:45] kind of a application or is that actual
[27:49] formal landscaping?
[27:50] >> Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a it's it's
[27:52] what you're looking at there now today.
[27:54] Um it'll you know, we don't want a mud bog there.
[27:57] >> Yeah.
[27:57] >> And tire tracks and all the things. So,
[28:00] we'll seat over that. So there's
[28:01] vegetation and you know the Greer family
[28:04] I'm sure will maintain that so it
[28:05] doesn't become an ugly field. They don't
[28:06] want that. They they they want you know
[28:09] when you pull into their facility to
[28:10] look nice. Uh so there'll be a level of
[28:12] maintenance done there and and but it's
[28:14] also a future building pad. You don't
[28:16] want to go spend you know $80,000 90
[28:19] $100,000 landscaping something you're
[28:21] going to tear out maybe very soon. So
[28:24] >> yeah, you probably couldn't put
[28:26] sprinklers and
[28:27] >> Yeah. But native seed also spreads. Are
[28:30] we okay with that?
[28:34] >> I mean, my neighbor over my neighbor
[28:36] wildflowered a native seed and I've got
[28:39] it everywhere. I can't get rid of it's
[28:42] just a concern.
[28:49] » We don't have to do that. I mean, we can
[28:52] >> Well, we don't want a dirt field. I
[28:53] know. So that's that's the conundrum
[28:55] >> that we we're juggling
[28:57] >> a lot of
[28:58] >> so if they
[29:00] >> now
[29:01] >> so is the does the streetscaping thing
[29:04] come into play here if that front part
[29:08] is not developed yet? Are they going to
[29:10] be required to do
[29:12] these streetscaping requirements? Does
[29:15] that make sense? if
[29:18] you know because we're we're we're
[29:19] talking
[29:21] you know put putting in a feature every
[29:23] 30 feet
[29:27] um
[29:28] installation of plazas gathering spaces
[29:31] where people may linger planters trees
[29:35] shrubs
[29:37] you know
[29:39] >> yeah they're bringing obviously watering
[29:41] right up to the
[29:43] northeast corner of their planted area.
[29:47] I don't think it's a big ask to say,
[29:49] "Let's put a couple of sprinkler heads
[29:50] in that area, plant grass, or even
[29:56] rock it
[29:58] just to provide some
[30:01] uh
[30:04] protection from that parking lot on Main
[30:07] Street. The reason why it's an issue is
[30:08] it's our historic gate gateway district
[30:11] and and we normally would part of that
[30:14] landscape design would be required to
[30:16] make that future building site nice. And
[30:19] if it's not gonna if it's nothing more
[30:21] than wild flowers, we wouldn't consider
[30:24] that to be nice.
[30:26] >> Well, if you're going to put a building
[30:27] there anyway, maybe we can I don't know,
[30:31] maybe you can just plan the landscaping
[30:34] out front. the landscaping along that 15
[30:36] foot setback.
[30:38] >> Yeah, just throwing it out there.
[30:42] >> John's right. I mean, when you come into
[30:44] the city, it's it's we're trying to make
[30:45] that very Have you noticed how nice it looks now at the roundabout?
[30:50] >> A lot of
[30:51] >> making good progress. And so, it's nice
[30:53] to have I think that that just pop of
[30:56] green and a little bit of barrier.
[30:57] That's all we're saying. Not you know,
[31:00] >> I would make that part of the
[31:01] recommendation.
[31:01] >> Yes.
[31:02] >> Yeah, I would say so.
[31:03] >> Make that enhance his probably. It'll
[31:04] make him I mean, I know he'll do a good
[31:06] job with his landscaping, but it would
[31:08] be great to have that planned.
[31:13] » Um, okay. Before we uh Anybody have any
[31:17] other questions for And don't leave yet,
[31:19] JD.
[31:20] >> Might have some for you on on uh
[31:22] materials. Anybody else have any other
[31:24] questions on parking, landscaping,
[31:27] anything else?
[31:32] » Okay. All right. Then J,
[31:35] >> can we pause on that really quick? Just
[31:36] add a quick question.
[31:37] >> Yep, sure.
[31:38] >> Would that be a condition upon the
[31:39] approval or is that a recommendation?
[31:43] >> So the the what we do as the planning
[31:46] commission is uh take a look at the plan
[31:49] and try to determine that uh all the um
[31:52] eyes have been dotted, tees crossed and
[31:55] everything in the plan, landscape
[31:57] setbacks, etc. You know, along with the
[32:00] city staff, you know, meet code. Um
[32:04] and then so with respect to the
[32:07] landscape plan, you know what what we do
[32:09] here for planning commission as you
[32:10] obviously know is we make a
[32:12] recommendation to city council. Well, we
[32:15] can do three things. We can make a
[32:16] recommendation to um accept with or
[32:20] without conditions. um make a
[32:23] recommendation to deny and we usually
[32:26] try to uh you know g give a record you
[32:28] know about why we're denying or we can
[32:30] do a motion to table in other words hey
[32:32] we just we need some additional
[32:34] information here. So um what it would be
[32:38] is a a at least with that particular
[32:41] aspect using that example on this
[32:42] landscape plan it would be for example
[32:45] if it were a recommendation to approve
[32:47] it we would make a recommendation to the
[32:49] city council to approve with the
[32:50] following conditions ABC XYZ whatever
[32:54] they happen to be and it might be you
[32:56] know landscaping kind of a green belt
[32:58] along that 15 foot setback for example
[33:02] and then city council can you know
[33:04] obviously they are free to uh you know
[33:07] they give great weight to our
[33:08] recommendations but they're free to you
[33:10] know take our recommendations accept
[33:12] them um deny them modify them you know
[33:15] whatever they see fit
[33:16] >> perfect thank you
[33:17] >> yeah um okay So JD, as as I understand
[33:23] just looking through these plans,
[33:27] um well, let me even back up on that.
[33:28] One thing that we do as the planning
[33:30] commission is um one of our greatest
[33:34] responsibilities honestly is um
[33:37] preservation of the Gateway Historic
[33:39] District and we apply the Gateway
[33:41] Historic District design guidelines. Um,
[33:45] when we look through those guidelines,
[33:47] for example, and I'm not going to read
[33:48] the whole things, but uh I'm not going
[33:50] to bore everybody, but it says, for
[33:51] example, guidelines, new developments
[33:53] should mimic details of older buildings,
[33:57] use similar materials, make mundane uses
[33:59] look good, include design features on
[34:02] blank walls. Um, and then there's a few
[34:04] other things, right? New construction
[34:05] should respect and build upon the
[34:06] historical legacy of downtown Alpine,
[34:09] and borrow historic features from the
[34:11] area. Um, and then when we look at at
[34:14] design criteria, we look at relation to
[34:16] the surrounding area, height, exterior
[34:18] walls, fences and surfaces, windows and
[34:20] doors, exterior trim and decorative
[34:22] detailing, roofing, materials,
[34:25] parenthesis, texture, color finishes,
[34:27] and finally streetscaping. So, um, most
[34:31] of those boxes have been checked
[34:33] already. Uh, we've already discussed,
[34:35] for example, streetscaping. And you know
[34:38] that's why it might sound um a little
[34:41] bit overkill when we're talking about
[34:43] the appearance and um perhaps even even
[34:47] you know green belt and you know
[34:49] temporary landscaping of that 15oot
[34:51] setback you know that's that's part of
[34:53] our mandate you know that we do. So the
[34:55] other thing that I think that we all
[34:56] really want to talk to you about is is
[34:59] materials.
[35:00] And my understanding on is that the
[35:04] proposal as it currently exists
[35:09] you're using uh on the the exterior of
[35:13] the building, these various elevations,
[35:16] the following materials. cement fiber
[35:19] siding,
[35:21] synthetic wood plank.
[35:24] Um, cement fiber siding painted.
[35:28] Well, maybe maybe they're all going to
[35:29] be painted. I guess that's same. And
[35:31] then a synthetic wood panel. Is that
[35:34] different than synthetic wood plank?
[35:36] >> Um, very similar. You'd look at, for
[35:38] example, Mr. Greer's barn. That's
[35:41] actually not wood. That's like a
[35:42] synthetic wood. So that would be an
[35:44] example of the sort of planking you
[35:45] would see on a building like this.
[35:48] >> Okay. And then part of the the
[35:51] elevation, the exterior, you're using
[35:53] metal roof sighting, correct?
[35:55] >> Okay.
[35:56] >> Similar to what's there.
[35:58] >> Okay. Um,
[36:00] I just think the issue that that I've
[36:02] got on this JD is when we go to the
[36:08] historic district design guidelines, um,
[36:11] under chapter 3,
[36:13] um, we look at design standards and, uh,
[36:15] yeah, Kaden, thanks for pulling that up.
[36:18] And the use of stone, brick, wood, or
[36:20] stucco is encouraged for use as the
[36:23] primary exterior material. Next bullet
[36:26] point, innovative use of other materials
[36:28] that mimic the primary exterior
[36:30] materials listed may be considered. So I
[36:33] think in the past we've looked at some
[36:34] of those materials as perhaps in trim or
[36:38] uh in small
[36:40] you know cosmetic type uses that that you know they may be considered but
[36:48] we really try to encourage the primary
[36:51] exterior materials to be stone, brick,
[36:54] wood or stucco. And I think my issue
[36:57] personally is that I don't think any of
[37:00] the materials you're proposing on this
[37:02] building are
[37:04] uh stone, brick, wood, or stucco. And
[37:07] those are our those are what we
[37:08] recommend as primary, you know,
[37:11] materials. So I was hoping I didn't know
[37:14] if you had brought samples with you
[37:15] today that we could take a look at.
[37:17] Okay. Sometimes that's a help to get us,
[37:20] you know, over that. But um I think a
[37:22] concern that that we're going to have
[37:24] and um happy to have you address that or uh you know open that discussion to
[37:29] other members as well. We can do that
[37:32] after we we um not excuse but but would
[37:35] but we don't have to keep JD standing
[37:36] all night.
[37:37] >> But I suppose that would be my my uh own
[37:40] concern over this is the use of the
[37:42] exterior materials and um maybe you can
[37:45] try and and help settle our concerns on
[37:48] that.
[37:49] >> Yeah. So,
[37:51] first and foremost, we're flexible on
[37:54] this design. We want to meet the
[37:56] downtown criteria. You know, we aren't
[37:58] married to any of these materials. If we
[38:01] want to put some brick on it, let's put
[38:02] some brick on it. If we want to switch
[38:03] some some things up, you know, we'd
[38:06] prefer to stay away. You know, you look
[38:07] at Nick's barn, you could go up and
[38:08] touch it, you wouldn't even know it was
[38:10] a synthetic wood. In fact, I had people
[38:12] tell me, "No, that's wood." I said, "I
[38:13] promise you it's not wood."
[38:15] >> Um,
[38:15] >> yeah. I tried to set it on fire and it
[38:17] wouldn't it wouldn't wouldn't even go.
[38:18] It was Yeah, I mean, good stuff.
[38:20] >> Um, but but it's it's a great material.
[38:24] It doesn't present the maintenance
[38:25] nightmare. You know, something you
[38:27] coming down the road now on Main Street
[38:28] and you're seeing something that needs
[38:29] to m be maintained. It's constantly
[38:31] maintained. And so, we do like products
[38:33] like that. Um, but if there's there's an
[38:37] element where we can bring in some brick
[38:39] here or if there's an element, you know,
[38:41] that the the concrete sections are
[38:43] stuckco, you can actually put um grooves
[38:46] within the stucco to make it almost look
[38:47] like a concrete facade. We did it in
[38:49] building an in American Fork.
[38:50] >> Um, so it's to give the illusion of
[38:53] that, but it is a stucco product. So
[38:55] there is still, you know, a good amount
[38:56] of stucco on here. Um, but we're
[38:59] flexible. Um, and we could take another
[39:01] pass on that. Uh the the the core thing
[39:04] we're trying to get through right now
[39:06] and understand is whether or not we can
[39:08] get site plan approval. Um we anticipate
[39:10] as well before a building permits even
[39:11] approved, we'd have to meet those m
[39:14] material requirements from from this
[39:16] group. So um we're probably less
[39:18] passionate about the materials on this
[39:20] project.
[39:20] >> Okay. Well, that's actually really good
[39:22] to hear. And this is neither here nor
[39:24] there um for you guys because um the the
[39:28] only thing that you're I mean the
[39:30] guidelines that you have used to design
[39:33] the building and that are applicable to
[39:34] your project are whatever design
[39:37] standards are currently in place under
[39:40] you know this um this current ordinance.
[39:42] Um, a little bit of guidance to you is,
[39:45] you know, in the future what what both
[39:47] planning commission and city council are
[39:49] working on, um, kind of a a
[39:52] forwardlooking 50-year plan is use of a
[39:55] lot more traditional design elements
[39:58] like red brick, you know, kind of what
[40:00] we call Utah traditional
[40:02] euphemistically.
[40:04] um red brick, wood accents, um like some
[40:08] of the newer, like for example, the
[40:09] Cedar Hills Fire Station, some of the
[40:11] new buildings you see, you know, going
[40:12] down North County Boulevard in in Cedar
[40:15] Hills and and Pleasant Grove. Um just
[40:18] more of a, you know, kind of a timeless
[40:19] look, but with some interesting
[40:20] architectural elements, which um I think
[40:23] your your your building could could I
[40:25] mean, look, we love the project. We love
[40:27] seeing things go in on Main Street. um
[40:29] to the extent that that we could uh you
[40:32] know work with you to to make it look a
[40:34] little more traditional and a building
[40:36] that um you know would would would
[40:40] complement uh Alpine. Uh al although I
[40:43] am also sensitive of the fact that that
[40:45] at some point Nick is uh probably and it
[40:48] sounds like perhaps sooner than later
[40:50] whatever that timeline is may put a
[40:51] family office building there and again
[40:53] knowing Nick I'm sure it'll be very nice
[40:55] and um by then we will almost certainly
[40:59] have guidelines in place that will be
[41:02] much more of a of a traditional you know
[41:06] Utah traditional look. And so, um, it
[41:09] just might be worth your while to think
[41:10] about since those guidelines will most
[41:12] likely be in place by the time, um,
[41:18] you folks come back for, uh, the family
[41:20] office, um, you might want to have this
[41:23] building tie into that.
[41:24] >> Sure.
[41:25] >> So, um, anyway, that's that's I
[41:27] appreciate that, JD. But, uh, you know,
[41:29] those are my thoughts. So, there any
[41:31] other questions for J JD, we can if
[41:33] there aren't, he can go ahead and take a
[41:34] seat and we can open up for discussion.
[41:37] How
[41:38] about the same thing? Just getting the
[41:40] brick there. And we've talked about
[41:42] doing the little black. It looks like
[41:43] you've done black windows as well. It
[41:44] just
[41:45] >> I think the black windows look great.
[41:47] >> Don't believe that this, but we really
[41:48] are working on a cohesive plan down Main
[41:51] Street. And we're we're going to get
[41:53] there. And I think that buildings like
[41:54] this that are right as you come off the
[41:57] roundabout, it'll really set that what
[41:59] we're looking for. And I think that
[42:00] building I'm sure you'll come up with
[42:02] something like fabulous. just those
[42:04] changes materials I think could still
[42:06] make this a beautiful building.
[42:08] >> Yeah, it is. Susan, and just so you
[42:09] know, I mean, we're we're right in the
[42:11] middle of of kind of intense
[42:14] meeting after meeting after meeting
[42:16] trying to get a consensus on the new
[42:18] fire station going in because again,
[42:20] we're trying to get those uh, you know,
[42:22] traditional elements of of um, you know,
[42:25] red brick and and again, I love your
[42:27] black framed windows and all that looks
[42:29] great and those are something that we're
[42:30] looking for as well. So, um, Even those
[42:34] little
[42:36] >> Jeze
[42:38] >> I I I think this has kind of elements of
[42:41] like the Ezra Lee building, the old car
[42:44] wash. I don't know if you're familiar
[42:45] with that building that they kind of
[42:47] did, but I drove past that today and
[42:49] they actually have it looked to me like
[42:51] kind of stone on the you know what I
[42:53] mean? They kind of sort of use those
[42:55] elements, but it still kind of
[42:59] >> Yeah, I it worked.
[43:00] >> Yeah. Well, I like this is right on Main
[43:02] Street. I mean, I love that it could
[43:04] really be a nice statement.
[43:06] >> Yeah. Yeah. The challenge I think
[43:07] oftentimes we run into is we forget that
[43:11] it's also a warehouse. And so, how do we
[43:13] balance
[43:14] >> um you know, making something more fancy
[43:17] than it needs to be as a warehouse and
[43:19] the cost even associated with doing
[43:21] that?
[43:21] >> Totally understand.
[43:22] >> Well, that's the problem with putting a
[43:23] warehouse on Main Street.
[43:24] >> Exactly.
[43:25] >> This is way off. you're going to have a
[43:26] building in front. But uh but to the
[43:28] extent that we can
[43:30] >> you know work with you on some forward
[43:32] thinking guidelines that will almost
[43:34] certainly be in place when
[43:36] >> you come back for the family office,
[43:38] it's it's worth making sure that this
[43:40] will tie
[43:43] >> what
[43:43] >> it makes your job so much easier. You
[43:45] know exactly what your you know some of
[43:47] the stuff is supposed to look like and
[43:48] you can go forward.
[43:49] >> Yeah. And I'm not suggesting because
[43:50] it's a warehouse we don't seek to find a way that it's beautiful and meets the
[43:55] standard. It's just the balancing act
[43:57] that an owner and a GC run is, you know,
[44:00] how do we make this cost effective as a
[44:02] warehouse and still meet the need?
[44:03] >> Sure,
[44:04] >> Kate.
[44:04] >> Yeah. I
[44:05] >> go ahead.
[44:06] >> No. Well, I it's just a rarity for a
[44:09] city to have a warehouse mixed in with a
[44:12] residential mixed in with
[44:15] a an commercial district. We are unique.
[44:18] And so we can't carve out a warehouse
[44:21] district and put it by I-15. And so
[44:25] that's
[44:26] >> where we're all trying.
[44:27] >> Basically what you're saying is we don't
[44:28] have industrial or light industrial
[44:30] anywhere in Alpine. So it is a bit of a
[44:32] unique you know application.
[44:34] >> Unfortunately you're kind of
[44:36] >> so it's going to have to be a fancy
[44:37] warehouse.
[44:39] >> Well you have a great owner that's wants
[44:40] to do right by the city.
[44:42] >> He's got class fine. Kaden, I have a JD
[44:45] brought up the point that he he's going
[44:47] for a site plan here. Does the elevation
[44:50] approval, design approval need to be
[44:52] part of that or can they be separated?
[44:54] >> From my understanding, you would need to
[44:56] put that as a condition if you want to
[44:58] approve today site plan that you want to
[45:00] see different changes in the elevations.
[45:04] >> Yeah.
[45:09] So again, I I would assume like most
[45:12] projects, time is money.
[45:15] >> So um let me let me just kind of put a
[45:18] hypothetical in front of you and then
[45:20] you know we'll we'll excuse you and and
[45:23] um and and we'll discuss. But I
[45:26] mentioned to you before and the reason I I ran you through that is there's a
[45:30] few different options, right? You know,
[45:31] today which is a motion to recommend
[45:33] with conditions. Well, sorry, a motion
[45:35] to recommend unconditionally. a motion
[45:36] to recommend with conditions. I think we
[45:38] certainly have conditions. Um or a
[45:40] motion to deny based on certain reasons.
[45:44] Um which and all of which then moves it
[45:46] on to city council. Um
[45:49] or there is a an option which is a
[45:53] motion to table.
[45:55] >> Um and and with that type of motion we
[45:59] would for example uh um you know again I I don't make motions. I just chair the
[46:05] meeting. But uh that type of motion
[46:07] would involve um talking to you again
[46:11] like we have today about design and
[46:13] mater more material change. We don't you
[46:16] know your design is fine. It's more the
[46:18] materials uh that would that that we
[46:21] would like to see. We could table it and
[46:22] then he have you back in a couple of
[46:24] weeks and then send it on to city
[46:27] council um with a recommendation at that
[46:32] point which would likely be
[46:34] recommendation to approve with maybe the
[46:36] landscape conditions you know said or
[46:38] maybe you would would revise the
[46:40] landscape um plan and uh it could end up
[46:44] going back to city council with a you
[46:46] know kind of an unconditional
[46:47] recommendation. Um otherwise it may you
[46:50] know would this be would would this be
[46:53] on what's the agenda look like for city
[46:55] council next week? Would this be on that
[46:57] agenda?
[46:58] >> That was the plan if you approved today
[47:00] as the recommending body. Yes.
[47:02] >> Okay. So but if it for example it it
[47:04] goes up there with a recommendation to
[47:07] deny because of the materials that are
[47:10] that you've the extra exterior materials
[47:12] that you've that you've used. um and
[47:14] city council agreed with that then I
[47:17] think it would correct me if I'm wrong
[47:19] Kaden but then it's going to basically
[47:21] say yeah we agree with planning
[47:23] commission go back and fix these things
[47:26] and then come back at which case it
[47:28] comes back to us and then back to them.
[47:30] So um again time is money and and I
[47:34] would imagine you folks want to keep
[47:35] this moving. Um perhaps the quickest way
[47:38] on this is a motion to table and we see
[47:41] again in a couple of weeks with um some
[47:44] plan revisions and at that point we um move it on to city council. So I I
[47:50] don't know your thought, you know, just
[47:51] perhaps your thoughts on that and maybe
[47:53] that that helps us know, you know, the
[47:55] direction we go with the motion because
[47:58] we do want to work with you. We like the
[47:59] project. We want you to be able to
[48:01] expand, but we also need to fulfill our
[48:03] obligations here with respect to the the
[48:05] fact that this is on Main Street and not
[48:07] just all sitting on 100 West.
[48:10] >> Is there is there a path forward where
[48:12] we adjust the site plan and some of
[48:15] those landscaping concerns, make some
[48:17] adjustments on that and do it out just
[48:20] send it to you and you guys determine,
[48:21] okay, we're comfortable moving it on
[48:23] still or do we got to circle back
[48:24] through?
[48:24] >> I think we have to do it in a we have to
[48:26] do it publicly in a meeting. Okay. But
[48:28] we will meet again in a couple of weeks
[48:29] and we'd make sure you're on the agenda.
[48:31] Okay. Well, sounds like that's probably
[48:33] the route we got to go.
[48:34] >> Okay.
[48:36] >> Any other questions that anybody has for
[48:38] JD?
[48:39] >> Bring some of some samples. Would you
[48:41] want that?
[48:41] >> Um, yeah. Would know. And yeah, it would
[48:44] be great to have samples. That that is
[48:46] often helpful to see them, feel them,
[48:49] etc.
[48:49] >> We need that little
[48:51] >> Yeah,
[48:51] >> we're not that creative up here.
[48:53] >> Um, okay.
[48:54] >> Okay.
[48:55] >> Excellent. Appreciate your your
[48:56] presentation. Thank you. Okay. Uh
[49:00] discussion.
[49:07] » I'm ready to make a motion if we're
[49:08] ready.
[49:09] >> Nice job.
[49:09] >> Oh, John.
[49:11] >> I make a motion. I don't know what we're
[49:13] calling this thing. Do you have your
[49:14] sample motions you can bring up?
[49:16] >> Let me pull it up. Yeah. One second.
[49:28] Okay. I move to table the uh approval or
[49:32] recommendation to approve of the
[49:35] proposed site plan for the new 512
[49:37] commercial building at 170 South Main
[49:40] Street,
[49:41] giving the applicant the opportunity to
[49:44] revise the design incorporating those
[49:47] materials that are um
[49:53] called out in the Gateway Historic
[49:56] District
[49:58] as as well as
[50:00] uh and those being the use of stone,
[50:03] brick, wood or stucco.
[50:07] Um
[50:10] also to modify the
[50:14] uh future building site
[50:17] uh to reflect
[50:21] a landscaping concept that would be used
[50:24] during an interim period.
[50:30] By the building site, do you mean that
[50:32] uh pad site the future right along Main
[50:35] Street? Yeah.
[50:35] >> Okay.
[50:36] >> Do we want to point out streetscaping
[50:38] specifically or I guess it's just
[50:40] landscaping is
[50:42] >> covers it.
[50:49] » Okay, John, you done with the motion?
[50:51] >> That's I thought you might be a little
[50:53] pensive there. No,
[50:54] >> I wasn't sure if there's one little
[50:55] bubble cloud.
[50:56] >> I was disappointed that no one jumped
[50:58] right in to second that motion. So,
[51:00] >> okay. Well, I hadn't because we we just
[51:02] weren't sure. You looked very
[51:04] thoughtful. Okay. Um, we have a motion
[51:07] uh by John McCay.
[51:09] >> Do we have a second?
[51:11] >> I'll second John.
[51:12] >> Okay, we have a second by Troyce Lade.
[51:14] All right. Discussion on the motion.
[51:18] » Marla, can you read back the motion?
[51:20] Let's just let's just hear the language.
[51:26] » I don't have all of it. Um I'm gonna
[51:28] have to go back and relisten to it. I
[51:30] have planning commission member John
[51:32] McCay move to table the proposed site
[51:34] plan for the new 512 building at 170
[51:37] South Main Street and ask the applicant
[51:39] to come back with the following. Then
[51:41] I'm going to go back and listen to all
[51:42] of his following statements.
[51:44] >> I wrote some stuff down.
[51:46] >> Repeat what he said. I wrote it down.
[51:50] >> Yeah. I I mean No, I think it was good.
[51:52] I think the only and I think it was
[51:54] clear enough. I think the only
[51:55] clarification would be if we thought
[51:56] there needed to be clarification would
[51:58] just be on the more or less landscaping
[52:03] the
[52:05] setback
[52:06] along Yeah. Main Street.
[52:09] >> But I think that was probably clear
[52:10] enough in the motion.
[52:11] >> I'll accept that if you want to make
[52:13] that.
[52:14] >> Okay. Well, I I I can't make it, but if
[52:16] somebody would like to
[52:17] >> that motion. So, so we don't want to use
[52:19] the streetscaping guidelines that they
[52:22] kind of set out those or just
[52:24] landscaping in general
[52:25] >> presently. They don't have any
[52:26] landscaping.
[52:28] >> So, just some just landscape that 15
[52:31] >> the 15 foot setback.
[52:34] >> But I'm sorry. But wouldn't wouldn't we though like if we just
[52:37] ignore any future building, wouldn't we
[52:39] require them to to go through that
[52:42] streetscaping stuff that we
[52:45] >> requiring?
[52:46] >> Well, no. like like just having having x
[52:49] amount of trees or x amount of what do
[52:51] they call them?
[52:52] >> Well, you know, yeah, we already went
[52:54] through the landscape plan and I think
[52:55] we we the trees, the bushes, the
[52:58] everything. I think that we I mean, we
[52:59] didn't go through them in depth, but I
[53:01] think we felt like they were fine.
[53:03] >> Okay.
[53:04] I mean, well,
[53:05] >> yeah,
[53:06] >> at least that hadn't been a discussion
[53:07] topic up to the meeting at this point
[53:10] that there was anything deficient in the
[53:12] landscape plan other than
[53:15] landscaping kind of a green belt in that
[53:19] 15 foot setback along Main Street. I
[53:21] think that's that was that was the only
[53:23] part of the plan that I heard anybody
[53:25] >> have an issue with.
[53:26] >> Yeah, me too.
[53:28] >> I mean, my point was just like because
[53:30] we've got specific things in the
[53:31] streetscape, you know what I'm saying?
[53:33] like, hey, places for people to kind of
[53:35] linger and, you know, benches and
[53:38] whatever. I I mean, do we just not do
[53:41] anything with that right now, right?
[53:48] I mean, if you're just asking my
[53:50] opinion, which just one, you know, an
[53:51] opinion one of five. I I think just
[53:54] based on the nature of this building,
[53:56] it's set way way back. It's a it's an
[53:59] addition to the warehouse. I understand
[54:01] its function. At some point, the owner
[54:05] sounds like he's going to build a family
[54:06] office right on Main Street, which, you
[54:09] know, knowing the owner will be, you
[54:12] know, top-notch and beautiful. And at
[54:13] that point, I think there will be those
[54:16] are some questions.
[54:17] >> Yeah, I think I I think so. I mean, I
[54:18] think that's at the point where you
[54:20] would, you know, talk about, you know,
[54:22] is there a walkway? You know, what's the
[54:24] vegetation around it? What are, you
[54:26] know, benches if anything?
[54:28] >> Um, that would just be my sense on that.
[54:30] Okay,
[54:31] >> I'm good with that.
[54:32] >> So, did did Troy did you want to um
[54:36] propose an amendment to John's motion to
[54:39] be a little more specific on landscaping
[54:42] the 15t setback of the future building
[54:46] site right along Main Street?
[54:50] >> Yeah. Okay. I think that's exactly what
[54:53] we ought to do. Just Yeah, the 15t along
[54:56] Main Street. I think we got to spell
[54:58] that out. Okay,
[54:59] >> spell it out.
[55:01] >> Um,
[55:02] >> or say what Alan said.
[55:03] >> Let's let's landscape the the 15 ft
[55:08] along that lines Main Street. Goes along
[55:12] Main Street. Okay. Uh, John, do you
[55:15] accept the
[55:17] >> amendment offered by Troy Slade?
[55:19] >> Yes.
[55:20] >> Okay. Uh we have a motion then by John
[55:24] McCay modified by um an amendment
[55:28] profered by Troy Slade. Any discussion
[55:32] on the motion and the amendment that uh
[55:36] John accepted?
[55:39] >> Could we um could we add that they have
[55:44] if they we really feel like it should be
[55:46] locked off? Can we add that it's a, you
[55:50] know, a black simple little gate rather
[55:53] than a chain in padlock?
[55:56] >> Uh, yeah, but we'll see that we'll see
[55:59] this again in a couple of weeks.
[56:00] >> Okay.
[56:01] >> And so if you know if if that's still
[56:04] the same and the concern still exists,
[56:05] perhaps that could be a condition of uh
[56:08] of the the recommendation that goes to
[56:12] city council. That work for you,
[56:14] Michelle? Is that regarding the kid the
[56:16] school people parking there? Is that
[56:18] what you're
[56:18] >> Well, that's why they have it is because
[56:21] of overspill.
[56:23] >> He thinks it's ugly.
[56:24] >> Yeah. But just have it so that like this
[56:26] is it's
[56:27] >> Yeah. If if we feel that I just Yeah. I
[56:30] mean the church gets used by, you know,
[56:33] lots of people the knot and pine and
[56:35] they haven't gone so far to padlock off
[56:38] their entrances. I just it's I tried to
[56:42] pull in as I was looking at the building
[56:45] today and drove all around and walked
[56:47] all around and I don't know it's it's it
[56:52] if if we feel that it's necessary for
[56:54] their safety and their business maybe.
[56:58] >> Well, this is just and I'm not going to put words into JD's
[57:02] mouth, but I mean what I sense will
[57:04] happen is that'll probably come down. I
[57:07] mean like like once everything goes
[57:09] through and they start construction I
[57:10] mean they that's probably comes down
[57:13] they they build everything put the
[57:16] parking lot in curbs etc. And my sense
[57:19] is that's probably a different mechanism
[57:22] right
[57:22] >> if at all at that point that
[57:24] >> and maybe it's not a problem at that
[57:25] point.
[57:25] >> Yeah I think so. So I don't think it's
[57:27] anything we can handle at this moment. I just think okay so we have a motion
[57:32] and an amendment uh by Troy accepted by
[57:35] John. Any discussion?
[57:38] Okay. All in favor of the motion to
[57:40] table say I.
[57:41] >> I.
[57:41] Any opposed?
[57:44] >> Okay. The motion to table passes
[57:45] unanimously. Thank you to the commission
[57:47] and JD. Thank you for the presentation.
[57:50] >> Um and hey any any questions you might
[57:53] have with respect to
[57:55] you know materials look. I mean
[57:58] >> have you know Nick knows me well. Have
[58:00] Nick give me a call or you and Nick can
[58:02] give me a call or happy to meet with uh
[58:04] you gentlemen. um
[58:07] pass on. I mean, you know, try to try to help you get into our crazy heads
[58:10] about, you know, what we're looking as a
[58:12] go forward for, you know, Alpine Design
[58:14] Standards. But, uh, happy to work with
[58:16] you on that because, you know, I think
[58:17] we all like the project.
[58:18] >> Yeah.
[58:20] >> Okay. Thank you, sir.
[58:21] >> Good luck, guys. It's going to be great.
[58:23] >> Thanks.
[58:23] >> See you in a couple of weeks.
[58:26] >> Okay. Um,
[58:29] >> yeah. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate
[58:30] it. Um, nice, folks. Uh, all right,
[58:33] Kaden, we don't have any other items,
[58:34] right? All right. I have a quick I'm not
[58:36] going to belabor the point, but it's
[58:37] right along these same lines. Um, I
[58:42] have a special
[58:45] communication for all of you.
[58:46] >> Yes,
[58:47] >> John. It's like, what is this? And it
[58:49] will not take very long. Uh, Kaden, can
[58:52] you pull up the slide the slides? And basically, it's this, right? I mean,
[58:57] we spent a lot of time uh going through
[58:59] that small area plan and in particular,
[59:02] we discussed a lot. We made
[59:03] recommendations to the uh city council
[59:06] for revisions to the small area plan.
[59:09] And based on those revisions to the
[59:12] small area plan, which is a non-binding
[59:14] document, I think that then opens the
[59:15] door for us to go and and uh propose
[59:18] amendments to the Gayway historic
[59:20] district design guidelines. And just,
[59:22] you know, I'll I'll just pass this up
[59:24] and down. John already looked at it, but
[59:25] if you look at the current guidelines,
[59:28] uh, you know, we we we delineate
[59:30] specific materials,
[59:32] um, looks, although it could be a lot
[59:36] tighter, right? But we also have some
[59:38] photographs in there. So, you know, I I
[59:41] think once we get just the basic
[59:43] revisions to the small area plan and if it if again if the city council
[59:49] adopts our recommendations, then I think
[59:51] that opens the door for us to then come
[59:52] and work on revisions to these
[59:54] guidelines, tighten this up, make this a
[59:57] document that's workable for, you know,
[59:59] the next few decades and put some very
[1:00:01] specific language around it and, you
[1:00:05] know, that is materials, that is design,
[1:00:09] um, what would you call them, Troy? I
[1:00:11] mean, design.
[1:00:12] >> Yeah, just elements.
[1:00:13] >> Elements. Um
[1:00:15] >> um
[1:00:15] >> looks I mean just all around again
[1:00:17] >> elements, I guess.
[1:00:18] >> Yeah. Ju just just to help really guide
[1:00:20] both the city and future, you know,
[1:00:23] developers around, you know, what we're
[1:00:25] looking for. So,
[1:00:27] >> um yeah, exactly.
[1:00:28] >> Never had clarity. And so, if you hand
[1:00:30] that to him and if JD was looking at it
[1:00:32] as it is now, he's like, "Huh?"
[1:00:35] >> He kind of feel sad for
[1:00:36] >> Well, it's it's Yeah, you know. Yeah,
[1:00:38] I've I've been on the commission for 10
[1:00:40] years and I mean it's just we have those
[1:00:42] guidelines and you just sort of see a
[1:00:43] real hodgepodge of buildings in Alpine
[1:00:45] and a lot and a lot of these things
[1:00:46] happened before any of the present you
[1:00:48] know mayor, city council, planning
[1:00:50] commission was here but you know I think
[1:00:52] our job is is to help you know provide a
[1:00:55] document that will give guidance going
[1:00:56] forward. So, that being said, you know,
[1:00:58] we've talked a little bit about a an
[1:01:00] architectural
[1:01:02] um concept that we've just sort of, for
[1:01:05] lack of a better term, called Utah
[1:01:07] traditional, right? I don't know that
[1:01:09] that's really a thing in any architect,
[1:01:11] you know, handbooks, you know, or, you
[1:01:13] know, school books that you'll ever see.
[1:01:15] But um you know maybe we can you know
[1:01:17] again we can perhaps you know AI this
[1:01:20] thing or chat GPT it or or you know work
[1:01:22] with a little bit of a an architectural
[1:01:24] consultant and kind of come up with the
[1:01:26] right language around this. But I just
[1:01:29] wanted to to just um just chat with the
[1:01:33] commission a little bit about uh you
[1:01:35] know maybe going forward there's going
[1:01:37] to be a time when we're going to work on
[1:01:38] this and I think it would be good to
[1:01:40] more or less have a ju just just a um
[1:01:45] file of
[1:01:48] buildings or design elements that we
[1:01:50] think look nice that will stand the test
[1:01:53] of time that would fit in with some of
[1:01:55] the current buildings
[1:01:57] >> that are both in Alpine and in
[1:01:59] surrounding neighborhoods, American
[1:02:01] Fork, Lehi, uh, Cedar Hills, and
[1:02:03] Pleasant Grove in particular, and come
[1:02:06] up with. So, I I just took a few
[1:02:08] pictures of some of the a little more
[1:02:10] traditional looking buildings we
[1:02:12] currently have in Alpine. So, the last
[1:02:14] one was again, go backwards if you know
[1:02:16] the other way if you would. So, uh,
[1:02:18] yeah, one more.
[1:02:19] >> No, the other way. Yeah, one more. So,
[1:02:21] that's just, you know, again, we know
[1:02:23] the building. I just, you know, Yeah.
[1:02:25] traditional red brick. windows. Look how
[1:02:28] nice black windows would be in that.
[1:02:29] >> Yeah, black windows would make that a
[1:02:31] lot nicer. Again, there there's, you
[1:02:33] know, there's not too many design
[1:02:35] elements on that like we'll see in some
[1:02:37] other buildings, right? If there were a
[1:02:38] few more design elements,
[1:02:40] >> right?
[1:02:40] >> But yeah, but but you know, you could
[1:02:43] like I think Sue makes a great point.
[1:02:47] You know, next time they update their
[1:02:49] windows, right? I mean, put some black
[1:02:51] frame windows for example and and
[1:02:53] perhaps some uh um overhangs over the
[1:02:55] windows or some you know,
[1:02:58] >> some design elements and you totally
[1:02:59] transform that building because the red
[1:03:01] brick will will look good for a hundred
[1:03:03] years.
[1:03:04] >> And historical traditional has vertical
[1:03:07] windows.
[1:03:07] >> Yes, exactly.
[1:03:08] >> Yeah.
[1:03:09] >> Bring it up and
[1:03:11] >> All right, Kate. Next one.
[1:03:12] >> It's nice detail underneath.
[1:03:14] >> Yeah, the little corbals.
[1:03:15] >> Yeah, that looks soft or whatever.
[1:03:17] >> Yeah. So, just again another red brick
[1:03:19] building and and you know, if if at some
[1:03:21] point somebody wants to do a little
[1:03:23] renovation of building, you know what?
[1:03:24] The red brick stays looks great. And
[1:03:26] then there could be, you know, perhaps
[1:03:27] something over the windows or other
[1:03:29] little design elements, but the basics
[1:03:31] of the building look good. Okay, next
[1:03:32] one.
[1:03:34] >> Um, I think this is the Ezra Lee
[1:03:35] building. We can look at several. Oh,
[1:03:36] let me that's what what I wanted to show
[1:03:38] you here is some of the buildings we'll
[1:03:40] look at. I think that that it's just too
[1:03:43] much uninterrupted
[1:03:45] wall exterior wall all on the same
[1:03:47] plane, right? I think what looks I mean
[1:03:49] obviously Ezra Lee is top architect and
[1:03:52] designer in the state but you know this
[1:03:54] just a nice building right with it with
[1:03:56] the brick
[1:03:57] >> um you've got a covering there you've
[1:04:00] got these tall rectangular uh you know
[1:04:02] dark framed windows
[1:04:03] >> piece of material
[1:04:04] >> and it's a modern look but yet but
[1:04:07] traditional that this will look 50 years
[1:04:09] exactly
[1:04:10] >> what's interesting is this front piece
[1:04:12] that forms the five peak or whatever
[1:04:15] that's all faux there's nothing behind
[1:04:17] it. That's a faux um because they did
[1:04:21] that in saloons and stuff, right? They
[1:04:23] had the faux front so it looked bigger
[1:04:25] than it really was.
[1:04:26] >> You could do that on top of a building,
[1:04:27] right? And and and it would it adds
[1:04:29] interest and height when there's really
[1:04:31] a flat roof behind it.
[1:04:33] >> Exactly. So, you know, ultimately if if
[1:04:35] we're looking at a revision of these
[1:04:36] guidelines, we talk about, you know,
[1:04:38] overhangs, you know, framed windows,
[1:04:40] there's little little, you know,
[1:04:41] interesting little concrete.
[1:04:43] >> I'm not an architect. whatever you call
[1:04:45] the piece above the window, but that
[1:04:46] parapit, right, that that takes and
[1:04:48] otherwise, you know, would would have
[1:04:50] just been a flat straight roof, but it
[1:04:52] breaks that up. And again, it's faux.
[1:04:54] There's nothing behind it, but it it it
[1:04:57] just really makes the building pop.
[1:05:00] >> So,
[1:05:00] >> okay, next one.
[1:05:02] >> Um, again, just again interesting
[1:05:04] elements to to Troy's point, design
[1:05:07] elements. You see the lights, you see
[1:05:09] the overhangs,
[1:05:10] >> and if the fire station had that, it
[1:05:12] might be great, you know.
[1:05:13] >> Exactly. and and and that stuff's
[1:05:14] probably not all that expensive, right?
[1:05:16] But but it's the small touches that that make it look so nice. And u All
[1:05:20] right, next one. Um okay, so again, a
[1:05:24] traditional bu building, red brick, but
[1:05:25] you know, you can continue to design a
[1:05:27] city around that. Um all right, let's go
[1:05:30] to the next one. I think we're going to
[1:05:32] go outside of the city now. Okay, these
[1:05:35] are
[1:05:36] >> I think Okay, these are down in Pleasant
[1:05:38] Grove, right? And that's, you know, with
[1:05:40] this, like I like the red brick. You
[1:05:42] know, those windows look nice both on
[1:05:44] the upper story and below. You've kind
[1:05:46] of got that nice design element. The the
[1:05:48] cover over the windows. Um, you see
[1:05:51] those, you know, windows up high on the
[1:05:52] side. The the the corner there, it juts
[1:05:55] out a little bit, so you just don't have
[1:05:56] just a solid boring wall. But again,
[1:05:59] nicely done. That building will look
[1:06:01] nice decades from now. And and again, we
[1:06:04] can just pop through the rest. And um
[1:06:06] you know, I mean that one I I that one I
[1:06:08] like the brick. I thought, you know,
[1:06:10] >> it's kind of the back of the building.
[1:06:12] It could have done a little more. And I
[1:06:13] mean, that's almost looks more like a
[1:06:14] jail, you know, like like a 19th century
[1:06:17] jail, but it is the backside, right?
[1:06:19] >> Put soldier bricks above the windows.
[1:06:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. There's something there. So,
[1:06:22] yeah.
[1:06:23] >> So, this is more like the front of that
[1:06:24] building, right? Where they they do make
[1:06:26] it a little nicer.
[1:06:27] >> Was this going to get a sign above the
[1:06:29] awning?
[1:06:29] >> Yeah, probably.
[1:06:30] >> Because you can see a light. Break that
[1:06:32] up.
[1:06:32] >> Looks like a little Yeah.
[1:06:34] >> Yeah. There's something a little hang I
[1:06:35] think they're waiting for a sign. Yeah.
[1:06:38] >> All right, Kaden. Next.
[1:06:40] >> Um Oh, somewhere back. That's just
[1:06:42] >> That's just Ezra Lee. Yeah. So, we can
[1:06:45] go on from there.
[1:06:47] >> I want to go see the fire station you
[1:06:48] keep talking about in Cedar Hill.
[1:06:50] >> Oh, I need to Yeah, I need to just
[1:06:53] >> Oh, yeah. These are the last few then
[1:06:54] we'll be done with these. So, I just
[1:06:56] took a picture. This Oh, so this is uh
[1:06:59] this is Cedar Hills and it's right
[1:07:01] behind the Walmart. These are these are
[1:07:03] Ezra buildings and it's right on the
[1:07:06] roundabout. Yeah. Yeah. So again, nice
[1:07:08] brick um you know you know again some
[1:07:11] elements around the windows
[1:07:13] >> uh that the rectangular black frame
[1:07:15] window next caden
[1:07:17] >> and again that's a nice design element.
[1:07:19] So for example if we had wood right if
[1:07:21] that's you know like that would be nice
[1:07:22] as a wood support with that canopy you
[1:07:24] know over an entrance.
[1:07:26] >> Look at the nice molding on the roof
[1:07:27] >> cornice top. Yeah. So those are just
[1:07:30] these item we want to think about like a
[1:07:31] you know coronus a paraput um again they
[1:07:34] take the building and you can also
[1:07:36] notice they do a little brick um you
[1:07:38] know above that uh that that covering
[1:07:41] >> they made them
[1:07:41] >> there's a design with the brick
[1:07:43] >> called soldier style that's what John
[1:07:45] Wow how'd you guys know that
[1:07:47] >> I'm such a cretton I'm a peasant I don't
[1:07:49] know these things
[1:07:50] >> looks like they're standing in attention
[1:07:53] >> yes there you go but see how they pop
[1:07:54] that next building out you know a couple
[1:07:56] of feet to just break up the plane so
[1:07:59] And then and then the that door is a
[1:08:00] little indented. So, you know, that's a
[1:08:02] nice design element
[1:08:04] >> for sure.
[1:08:04] >> Um and yeah, and so Oh, this is I think
[1:08:09] this is the pleasant grove. But I
[1:08:10] thought that that's really pretty,
[1:08:11] right? The way they've got the lower
[1:08:12] windows, the upper windows that uh um
[1:08:16] covering, you know, between the first
[1:08:18] and second floors. So um I think those
[1:08:20] are just you know when you're out and
[1:08:22] around if you see you know buildings
[1:08:24] both inside and outside of Alpine that
[1:08:27] oh you know some more right where the
[1:08:29] elevation is very interesting because it
[1:08:31] pops out and a few different materials
[1:08:33] so
[1:08:34] >> cohesive with the
[1:08:35] >> yeah very yeah exactly
[1:08:36] >> right look at how different that is
[1:08:38] >> and you see those concrete elements
[1:08:40] above the windows and you know
[1:08:43] >> so you know I just say when you're out
[1:08:44] and around if we start building a
[1:08:45] library of of samples because ultimately
[1:08:49] I would like to incorporate
[1:08:51] >> the the examples that would be most
[1:08:55] helpful to future city councils and
[1:08:59] planning commissions and developers as
[1:09:01] they're trying to figure out well go
[1:09:03] >> what do they want in Alpine right
[1:09:05] >> if we if if we had
[1:09:08] ultimately I think we'll be sitting here
[1:09:10] looking at 30 40 50 different you know
[1:09:15] pictures
[1:09:16] >> narrowing it down to you know 10 or so
[1:09:18] 10 or 12 or what, however many with
[1:09:21] pictures of certain elements that we can
[1:09:22] describe and provide illustrations for
[1:09:25] and really just give a road map to to
[1:09:27] you know future city planners.
[1:09:28] >> It's going to be your legacy.
[1:09:30] >> I went out to John
[1:09:32] >> knowing how we operate. I might be dead.
[1:09:33] >> Yeah. During that last meeting, John
[1:09:36] mentioned Pasa Robas as that he found
[1:09:39] that on the web as we were kind of all
[1:09:41] googling and I went back to that website
[1:09:43] to their city website and they have a
[1:09:45] very intense um design guidelines. They
[1:09:49] have standards and they have guidelines
[1:09:51] and they're very clear that standards
[1:09:54] are a must, right? Like your setbacks
[1:09:56] and then they have guidelines. Now they
[1:09:59] have differences because they're they
[1:10:02] have Victorian style. They have Spanish
[1:10:05] revival or mission you would call it
[1:10:06] mission style and then they have the red
[1:10:09] brick style. So they have defined
[1:10:12] whereas we really only have one. We
[1:10:14] don't have much Victorian around here.
[1:10:17] We don't have really any at all. And
[1:10:18] there's of course no Spanish, no tile
[1:10:20] roofs and that. But it was very they're
[1:10:23] they have a great PDF and a great um
[1:10:27] it's easy to find if you go to their
[1:10:29] city website and Google their and they have defined their areas right
[1:10:35] because they're a big city. So if you
[1:10:37] just kind of concentrate on their main
[1:10:40] street master plan, I think they call it
[1:10:42] something like that,
[1:10:43] >> then it gives you an idea of you really
[1:10:46] can set standards which were signs and
[1:10:49] setbacks and a few things and then they
[1:10:52] had guidelines.
[1:10:53] >> Yeah, that'd be great. I mean, if we can model what we do Yeah. If we
[1:10:57] can model what we do after,
[1:10:59] >> you know, again, I mean,
[1:11:02] >> it's always easy to edit someone else's
[1:11:04] work.
[1:11:05] >> Yeah, exactly. And I I found that the
[1:11:07] city of Boise
[1:11:09] um
[1:11:11] made an effort to create a historic
[1:11:13] district design guidelines and and even
[1:11:16] Salt Lake City has as well both in
[1:11:19] ordinance form. Um they they talked in
[1:11:24] generalities
[1:11:25] about
[1:11:27] keeping an alternating height
[1:11:31] look going on as you as you put
[1:11:33] buildings next to each other. They also
[1:11:35] talked about the relief that Allan has
[1:11:37] talked about. Um,
[1:11:40] but outside of some of those things that
[1:11:42] none of them got into details.
[1:11:45] Um, and so from that standpoint, I
[1:11:48] didn't think they were very helpful. I
[1:11:50] hope that whatever we come up with will
[1:11:52] I mean I I would think that a a nice
[1:11:54] little touch would be saying every red
[1:11:56] brick building needs to have a concrete
[1:11:58] lentil above the windows.
[1:12:00] >> Yeah.
[1:12:01] >> I mean if that
[1:12:01] >> John you got all the terms listened to
[1:12:03] you.
[1:12:04] went on the whole street.
[1:12:06] >> Oh, soldier soldier bricks
[1:12:09] >> and black black light fixtures like just
[1:12:12] things like that that pop on brick.
[1:12:14] >> Yeah.
[1:12:14] >> Oh, yeah. Exactly.
[1:12:15] >> That's more prescriptive than any other
[1:12:17] city has ever tried to do. But I think
[1:12:19] >> Well, we're so small. We It's okay. We
[1:12:22] don't
[1:12:22] >> throw some lentils up. Throw some
[1:12:24] soldiers in. Couple couple of historic
[1:12:26] lamps.
[1:12:27] >> No, you're bragging.
[1:12:29] >> We got it. We got this.
[1:12:32] >> All right. All right. Well, John's going
[1:12:33] to be in charge of the document, so
[1:12:35] because because he's got all the lingo.
[1:12:37] Okay. I don't want to belabor the point,
[1:12:38] but uh No, I think that's uh um um No, I
[1:12:43] thought this will actually like that was just I just remember when we
[1:12:46] went back through those guidelines a few
[1:12:47] years ago. It was just so painful and
[1:12:50] such a battle, but we're trying to work with kind of an
[1:12:54] unworkable document. But it it would be
[1:12:56] really fun to put something so much
[1:12:58] better in place and kind of have that be
[1:13:00] a bit of our bit of our legacy to the
[1:13:02] city going forward. So that would be
[1:13:03] good.
[1:13:04] >> You're saving the people so much like
[1:13:06] saving their time and their money just
[1:13:09] they're going to see like these are our
[1:13:10] guidelines and look how much fun we can
[1:13:12] have with it
[1:13:12] >> because that cost them a fair bit of
[1:13:14] money just to come up with what they
[1:13:16] did. I'm sure.
[1:13:17] >> Yeah. Then if you build a home you
[1:13:18] better bring all this stuff up and if it
[1:13:19] gets denied I it's so nice to be like
[1:13:22] this is so workable because I kind of
[1:13:24] have a what is and isn't.
[1:13:27] >> You know what? I've
[1:13:29] >> Yeah.
[1:13:32] And if I may just jump in real
[1:13:33] quick just as and I know the whole
[1:13:35] commission already knows this, but the
[1:13:37] small area plan that you've worked so
[1:13:38] diligently on
[1:13:40] >> is a guiding document. It isn't the
[1:13:43] ordinance as you all know.
[1:13:45] >> And so the discussion you're having
[1:13:47] today, I think is really important as
[1:13:48] going forward once the city council
[1:13:50] adopts that small area plan as a guiding
[1:13:53] document. the ordinances that you want
[1:13:55] to put in place, adding lentils, as John
[1:13:57] says, above the windows and things like
[1:13:59] that, that would have to be in the
[1:14:00] ordinance. It probably wouldn't be
[1:14:02] specified enough in the small area plan.
[1:14:04] >> Right. Yeah.
[1:14:04] >> Right.
[1:14:05] >> No, I I I agree with that. I mean, I
[1:14:06] think there's, you know, I've had some
[1:14:08] discussions with a couple city council
[1:14:09] members who feel like, for example, that
[1:14:12] we need more specificity
[1:14:16] from the planning commission on their
[1:14:18] recommendations to the small area plan.
[1:14:20] And I'm just not sure that's accurate. I
[1:14:23] mean because it again it's a guiding
[1:14:26] document for sure and perhaps there
[1:14:28] going to be a little more meat on the
[1:14:29] bone but ultimately when we kind of take
[1:14:32] you know basically some of those broad
[1:14:36] recommendations to the small area plan
[1:14:38] but then really flesh them out in the
[1:14:40] actual binding
[1:14:42] uh document that is going to be the
[1:14:45] ordinance right and the the um gateway
[1:14:48] historic district I think that's where
[1:14:50] we really you know because again we'll
[1:14:52] work on that and then provide that final
[1:14:54] document to city council. So I think I
[1:14:57] think you know Kaden to your point that
[1:15:00] specificity really will the small area
[1:15:04] plan will just give us the ability to go
[1:15:06] back with more specificity to amend and
[1:15:09] then present um a revised uh gateway
[1:15:13] historic plan. So yeah and and I would
[1:15:17] imagine we'll discuss that a little bit
[1:15:18] tomorrow. So, by the way, on this
[1:15:21] commission, who will be at the the um
[1:15:24] joint planning commission city council
[1:15:26] meeting tomorrow? 3:30 to 5.
[1:15:29] >> Yeah, pretty sure I can be there.
[1:15:31] >> Okay, I'll be there as well.
[1:15:32] >> I'll try.
[1:15:33] >> Okay,
[1:15:34] >> you be there, John.
[1:15:34] >> Uh yeah, I think we you know.
[1:15:37] >> Okay. Yeah, no worries. Just let me
[1:15:38] know. Yeah, Greg and and John are or
[1:15:40] John uh Greg and Jeff are both out of
[1:15:43] town. So, um All right. Well, we'll see
[1:15:45] you tomorrow. All right. Last thing on
[1:15:47] here is anybody a chance to go through
[1:15:48] the minutes and do an approval.
[1:15:51] >> Did we did we get new minutes? I didn't
[1:15:53] have all of our motions.
[1:15:55] >> We're we're approving for two weeks.
[1:15:57] >> The other one was not This is the only
[1:16:01] >> This is the one
[1:16:04] >> the March 31st. That's correct. It was
[1:16:06] not approved yet. Is that right?
[1:16:09] >> I forgot about that. I apologize.
[1:16:15] » Yeah.
[1:16:16] Okay. Um, yeah. So, all right. We'll do
[1:16:20] want to go ahead and and uh then do a
[1:16:22] motion to approve these minutes. Uh, but
[1:16:24] also just make a note that we're still
[1:16:26] looking for prior meeting minutes.
[1:16:29] >> Is that where we are?
[1:16:30] >> Y.
[1:16:31] >> Okay.
[1:16:34] >> Oh, I um I approve the minutes from May
[1:16:39] 5th, 2026
[1:16:42] of planning commission meeting as written.
[1:16:46] >> Okay. Have a motion to approve the
[1:16:48] minutes by Michelle Shurmer. Do I have a
[1:16:50] second?
[1:16:51] >> Second.
[1:16:51] by I I think Suz beat you to it.
[1:16:55] So second by Suz Wittenberg. All in
[1:16:57] favor?
[1:16:58] >> I uh with the with the caveat that
[1:17:01] perhaps next time Kaden we can take a
[1:17:03] look at the
[1:17:04] >> Yes.
[1:17:05] >> Whatever whatever meeting minutes we
[1:17:06] still need to uh review and approve.
[1:17:08] >> March 31st.
[1:17:09] >> Okay. March.
[1:17:10] >> That was my first day here and I
[1:17:11] actually didn't come to that meeting.
[1:17:12] >> We're not hold that.
[1:17:13] >> I'll put that on you. You said you
[1:17:14] passed.
[1:17:15] >> We We blame Ryan. Okay. Cuz he's not
[1:17:18] here. It's easiest. All right. Uh,
[1:17:20] anything else?
[1:17:23] >> Entertain a motion to adjurnn.
[1:17:25] >> I move we adjourn this meeting.
[1:17:27] >> All right. We have a motion to adjurnn
[1:17:30] by Suz Wittenberg. Do we have a second?
[1:17:32] >> All in favor? I