1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,200
Call starting to my far left.

2
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,640
>> Andrew Young present.

3
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,040
>> Jessica Smean present. Sarah Blackwell

4
00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:10,480
present.

5
00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:11,759
>> Brent Rumbler present.

6
00:00:11,759 --> 00:00:12,880
>> Okay, perfect. I'm sorry. I didn't

7
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,000
realize you were on that. I'm like, is

8
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,759
Brent online? So, thank you, Brent.

9
00:00:15,759 --> 00:00:18,560
Appreciate you joining. And then I did

10
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,800
get communication from um Councilwoman

11
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,840
Henman and she is in route and we'll be

12
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,840
running a few minutes late. We will have

13
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,599
a prayer offered by Councilwoman

14
00:00:27,599 --> 00:00:29,519
Blackwell and then a pledge led by

15
00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:31,439
Councilman Young.

16
00:00:31,439 --> 00:00:32,880
>> Our dear father in heaven, we're

17
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,559
grateful for this beautiful day and

18
00:00:34,559 --> 00:00:36,000
we're grateful for the opportunity we

19
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,160
have to be gathered together as a

20
00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:43,440
community and as a governing body. We

21
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,920
acknowledge thy hand and all that we do

22
00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,440
and we're so grateful for their freedoms

23
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:48,960
that we enjoy and for those who have

24
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,640
given their lives for those freedoms. We

25
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,920
pray that we might honor them by the way

26
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,559
we conduct our lives and pray that this

27
00:00:56,559 --> 00:00:59,199
evening that we might act with integrity

28
00:00:59,199 --> 00:01:02,559
and transparency and have the best

29
00:01:02,559 --> 00:01:04,239
interest of the residents of Alpine in

30
00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:05,199
mind. And we say these things in the

31
00:01:05,199 --> 00:01:06,400
name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

32
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:06,880
>> Amen.

33
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,280
>> All arise.

34
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,439
Please join with us in the pledge of

35
00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:13,439
allegiance.

36
00:01:13,439 --> 00:01:16,640
I pledge algiance to the flag of the

37
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,439
United States of America and to the

38
00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:22,880
republic for which it stands, one nation

39
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,400
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

40
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,759
justice for all.

41
00:01:27,759 --> 00:01:30,159
>> Thank you.

42
00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:32,640
Um, we will proceed with item

43
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,079
two, which is the consent calendar. I'll

44
00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:38,079
ask is are there any questions regarding

45
00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:41,759
the items on the consent calendar?

46
00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:42,479
If not,

47
00:01:42,479 --> 00:01:45,920
>> just one uh and that is uh and pardon if

48
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,720
it's already come up. The uh on the

49
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,360
certified tax rate, did they get us the

50
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,560
number on those? I think it would just

51
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:53,920
be great to have my Have you Did you

52
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,200
already send those out? I know they were

53
00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:56,240
supposed to come today.

54
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,560
>> No. So, I I just going to bring this up.

55
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,759
I got an email today from Bert Harvey

56
00:02:01,759 --> 00:02:03,920
with Utah County. So, all the

57
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,520
information has been sent to the state

58
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,479
tax commission, but they have not

59
00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,879
finished on their end. And I also found

60
00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:13,200
out as of May 1st there was a change in

61
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,720
the law where they're supposed to have

62
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,520
that done by June 8th, but as of May 1st

63
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,680
it changed to the 13th,

64
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,720
>> but they didn't change the back end of

65
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,520
when we have to have our our certified

66
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,080
tax rate adopted by. So likely what

67
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,760
we're going to have to do is just have a

68
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,120
quick noon city council meeting for five

69
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,280
minutes or whatever to adopt the rate.

70
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:36,800
>> So do we want to

71
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,720
>> So it's everything but item C. Is that

72
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,160
correct? Oh, did you already scratch

73
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,519
item C?

74
00:02:41,519 --> 00:02:43,120
>> No, that's what I just said. So, we'll

75
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,560
be item C.

76
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,720
>> Okay. So, are y'all okay since we don't

77
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,280
know the rate to move item C to another

78
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,800
day?

79
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,000
>> Well, we can't approve it because we

80
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:52,959
don't know what it is.

81
00:02:52,959 --> 00:02:54,640
>> Well, okay. I'm just timid because every

82
00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:55,840
time I bring up something, I get yelled

83
00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:56,080
at.

84
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:57,680
>> No, you just make the motion and you

85
00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,760
just say, you know, you approve um the

86
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,680
items on the consent calendar. It might

87
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,760
be the most important number in all of

88
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:04,800
our lives.

89
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,239
>> Okay. So, I'll entertain a motion. I'll

90
00:03:08,239 --> 00:03:11,599
make a motion. Uh I move to approve the

91
00:03:11,599 --> 00:03:13,760
consent calendar

92
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,319
and move item C for a future meeting.

93
00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,319
>> I second that. Okay. It's been moved by

94
00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:23,200
Councilman Young, seconded by

95
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,519
Councilwoman Blackwell.

96
00:03:25,519 --> 00:03:28,080
Any questions on the motion? If not,

97
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,080
we'll proceed with a roll call vote.

98
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,120
Starting with um Councilwoman Blackwell.

99
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,360
>> Oh, Sarah Blackwell. Yes.

100
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,840
>> Andrew Young, yes. Jessica Smeuan. Yes.

101
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:38,400
>> Okay.

102
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,920
>> Brent Brent Rmler. Yes.

103
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,400
>> Okay. Thank you. Um consent calendar

104
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,080
passes. We'll move on to public comment.

105
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,480
And um we've got Tyler Carter who will

106
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,519
be followed by Mr. Jeff Davis. If you

107
00:03:53,519 --> 00:03:55,840
can come up and state your name and just

108
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,159
the street that you live on and then

109
00:03:58,159 --> 00:03:59,680
you'll have three minutes to make your

110
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,599
comment. Kaden, can you put three

111
00:04:01,599 --> 00:04:07,429
minutes on the

112
00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:10,869
Tyler Carter

113
00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:13,360
Drive.

114
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,040
I'm making a general comment regarding

115
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,110
our water.

116
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,040
» There's like a button on the bottom

117
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,430
cylinder.

118
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,560
» How's that? Okay. Tyler Carter. I live

119
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,880
on Matterhorn Drive. Um I've lived here

120
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,440
for 13 years. I'm not an old-timer, but

121
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,919
I'm not a newcomer either. Um, as a

122
00:04:35,919 --> 00:04:38,240
concerned citizen with regards to water,

123
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,240
um, there are very few things that sneak

124
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,720
up on us or even that we care about as a

125
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,800
population. We care about safety here.

126
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,199
We care about traffic. We care about

127
00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:50,960
utilities. Um, it's my concern that we

128
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,120
are not planning far enough in the

129
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,199
future from a water perspective. Every

130
00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:57,840
summer, um, we have pauses on the water

131
00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:00,160
system. We've got, you know, growing

132
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,840
populations.

133
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:04,639
As a concerned citizen and not a rich

134
00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:07,039
citizen, I would ask that we do the

135
00:05:07,039 --> 00:05:08,720
things that are necessary for our

136
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,560
future, even if they are painful. If we

137
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,800
need to raise taxes, raise taxes. If we

138
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,560
need to raise rates on water, raise

139
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,720
rates. But by all means, please plan for

140
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,880
our future. Um, this applies to every

141
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,080
issue. Um, but I'm here tonight talking

142
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,160
about water because I think if you

143
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,560
pulled our citizens, people care about

144
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,000
their yards. They care about water

145
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,199
delivery. And sometimes

146
00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:36,000
um I think Alpine has a a history of

147
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,680
acting like a small town because we are

148
00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,360
a small town. I think it's in our

149
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,240
interest to act as a more mature, larger

150
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,560
entity and plan further into the future.

151
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,800
So that's all. Thank you.

152
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,880
>> Thank you. I appreciate it. Mr. Jeff

153
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:57,749
Davis, followed by Mr. Steve Burroughs.

154
00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:00,960
» Okay. Uh Jeff Davis,

155
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,319
friends, uh Alpine, longtime Alpine

156
00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:08,080
resident, uh and I also serve on the

157
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,319
water community task force. So, I just

158
00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:16,000
want to bring up a few things.

159
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,880
Um, I also want to

160
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,240
state that I'm also a water engineer.

161
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,639
So, I say these things with experience

162
00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:27,520
because this is what I do on the daily.

163
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,240
Okay. So,

164
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,880
um,

165
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,280
Horox has done master planning work for

166
00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:40,160
several periods, several cycles,

167
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:41,759
including the one that was released last

168
00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:43,440
year. Okay.

169
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,960
Um I want to just state you know based

170
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,360
on my understanding and and knowledge of

171
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,280
our system

172
00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:55,280
um that according to last year's

173
00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:57,840
uh report

174
00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:02,960
um that we were okay on supply but

175
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,319
deficient on storage.

176
00:07:06,319 --> 00:07:09,840
Long-term we are definitely short on

177
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,599
storage and short on supply. Okay. So, I

178
00:07:13,599 --> 00:07:17,280
recognize th those two things. Okay. I

179
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,199
also recognize that they have gone

180
00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:23,360
through and prioritized the items of

181
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,800
what we want done. Okay. In order of

182
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,160
priority and I agree with those five

183
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,560
items that they listed in the report

184
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,039
last year. Okay. and that includes

185
00:07:37,039 --> 00:07:39,919
uh the storage, the pressure reducing

186
00:07:39,919 --> 00:07:42,319
valve and also the heritage hills well.

187
00:07:42,319 --> 00:07:46,319
Okay. So I concur with their uh with

188
00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:48,479
their findings.

189
00:07:48,479 --> 00:07:50,240
The

190
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,000
I also recognize that the supply from

191
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,120
central Utah uh is not guaranteed. In

192
00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,199
fact, we found out uh just recently that

193
00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:03,440
they are telling us and the other

194
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:04,800
communities that they're supplying

195
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,520
water, don't count on that. Don't count

196
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,680
on your full aotment. And so, in my

197
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,879
experience, in my understanding,

198
00:08:14,879 --> 00:08:17,199
uh water from central Utah is not going

199
00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:20,800
to go up and it's definitely not going

200
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,199
to stay the same going into the future.

201
00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:26,560
It will only go down. Okay? And so we

202
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,560
need to recogni we need to recognize

203
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,440
that. So

204
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,200
um

205
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,760
the the the one last thing that I would

206
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,159
want to say is

207
00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,399
on the pressurized irrigation we have

208
00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:44,080
and culinary we have a level of service

209
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,600
requirement.

210
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,800
Okay. That level of service requirement

211
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,680
is not currently being met on the

212
00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:53,360
pressurized irrigation for several

213
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,720
locations in our city. Okay. So, those

214
00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,600
five items really need to be

215
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,920
>> prioritized put in. Okay.

216
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,600
>> Thank you.

217
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:12,550
Uh, Mr. Burroughs.

218
00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:15,200
» Hello everyone. Steve Burroughs uh

219
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,560
living on Meadow Lark. Uh, I'm here as

220
00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:21,440
chair of the Alpine Water Citizens

221
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,519
Advisory Group. Um, as we sent to our

222
00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:28,640
council members and the city leadership,

223
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,240
we unanimously um recommend that the

224
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,360
city create the financing necessary to

225
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,760
fix the deficiencies that are currently

226
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,120
in our PI system and to anticipate the

227
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,000
supply needed in the future, namely the

228
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,000
Healey well.

229
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,680
Um, we I think as I think about this, is a big decision. As I think back

230
00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:54,320
20 years, Shane was here 20 years ago.

231
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,880
Our water guy Greg was here 20 years ago

232
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,360
when the PI system was put in and it was

233
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,720
bonded. That was that generation.

234
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,120
You are this generation. It's a

235
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,200
generational decision to incur what

236
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,519
needs to be incurred and pass along to

237
00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:12,720
citizens advertised over time to fix

238
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,920
what's needed. And as Jeff so uh well

239
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,440
said, the harpinger for the future is

240
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,839
not more water sources, but less water

241
00:10:21,839 --> 00:10:24,399
sources. Lastly, I'd like to read very

242
00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:27,839
quickly a letter of support from two uh

243
00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:29,839
alpine citizens.

244
00:10:29,839 --> 00:10:33,120
This is Meredith and Nathan Simpson who

245
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,959
live on uh Woodlands Drive. It says,

246
00:10:36,959 --> 00:10:39,279
"Mary and I would like to express our

247
00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:41,680
support for Alpine City moving forward

248
00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:43,760
with a proposed bond to fund the

249
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,680
critical improvements identified for the

250
00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:48,480
city's pressured ice irrigation system.

251
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,320
We recognize that asking citizens to

252
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,560
support additional so infrastructure

253
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:54,480
investment is never an easy decision.

254
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,399
However, we believe effective leadership

255
00:10:56,399 --> 00:10:59,040
requires balancing today's costs with

256
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,519
tomorrow's needs. In our view, the

257
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:03,200
projects identified through the

258
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,600
collaboration of the city staff, Horox

259
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,160
Consulting, and Alpine Water Citizens

260
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,079
Advisory Committee represent prudent,

261
00:11:10,079 --> 00:11:12,160
forward-looking investments in Alpine's

262
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,959
future. Reliable water infrastructure is

263
00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:17,120
essential to the quality of life that

264
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,680
residents enjoy in our community. The

265
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:21,360
proposed improvements will strengthen

266
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,320
system eligibility and enhance fire flow

267
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,000
protection, increase water storage

268
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,240
capacity, improve operational

269
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,079
efficiency, and support reasonable water

270
00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:33,200
conservation efforts. Just just as

271
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,200
importantly, these projects position

272
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,519
Alpine to meet the future demand while

273
00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:40,000
making the best use of existing water

274
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,560
resources. We also recognize this

275
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:44,959
proposal is not uh simply about

276
00:11:44,959 --> 00:11:47,120
preparing for future growth. The city is

277
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,640
already experiencing capacity

278
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,720
constraints within portions of the

279
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,880
existing system, including periodic

280
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,720
requests for residents to reduce water

281
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,640
usage during peak demand times. These

282
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,560
those challenges highlight the

283
00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:02,320
importance of addressing known

284
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,000
deficiencies now rather than waiting.

285
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,320
I'll the letter is not complete, but I

286
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,160
will make sure you each have a letter.

287
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,360
And I just end with be courageous. This

288
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,240
is a generational decision and uh we

289
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,720
support your decisions to bond. Thank

290
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:19,360
you.

291
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,959
>> Thank you, Mr. Burroughs.

292
00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:23,839
>> Okay, let's move on to reports and

293
00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:27,839
presentations. We have um

294
00:12:27,839 --> 00:12:30,480
the

295
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,680
financial reports, Shane.

296
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:37,120
>> Okay, so we're down to one month left in

297
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,839
the budget year. Um

298
00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:43,120
so overall we're meeting our revenue

299
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,959
marks that we have uh budgeted for this

300
00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:49,200
year and

301
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,120
expenses are in line as well. Um

302
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,079
sales tax uh Kaden if do you have that

303
00:12:56,079 --> 00:12:59,590
graph?

304
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,079
So this would be with basically nine

305
00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:06,079
months so three months still coming. Um

306
00:13:06,079 --> 00:13:10,399
we're about 3.8 8% um over where we were

307
00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:12,800
last year. So that's that's trending

308
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,800
well. And again, that kind of fluctuates

309
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,800
up and down, which we learned a little

310
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,480
bit more about in a finance committee

311
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,800
meeting, I think last week. Might have

312
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,240
been the week before. I can't remember

313
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,920
now. Yeah. So, um we'll be going through

314
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:34,000
our budget with a fine tooth comb and uh just in case we need an amendment

315
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,839
somewhat. I don't anticipate anything

316
00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:37,120
major.

317
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,440
Um but that would be at our meeting in

318
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,600
two weeks. So we have that public

319
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,760
hearing addressed um just in the event

320
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,680
that we need to make an adjustment for

321
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,839
this budget year. So besides that, we're

322
00:13:49,839 --> 00:13:52,000
just working on the budget um for the

323
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,160
upcoming year and that will come to you

324
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,560
for final budget approval in two weeks

325
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:57,920
as well.

326
00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,920
>> Thank you. Oh, before we proceed, I want

327
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,839
to recognize that Christy Councilwoman

328
00:14:01,839 --> 00:14:04,639
Hannaman is now also present. Um, thank

329
00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:08,560
you for um, coming. Um, any questions

330
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,760
regarding the finance packet or finance

331
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,120
report?

332
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,040
>> I would just say Shane, the

333
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,720
this meeting coming up is probably the

334
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:19,839
most important one.

335
00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:20,800
>> Microphone.

336
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,920
>> Yeah, sorry, I'm just talking like I

337
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,000
swallowed something. Um, this meeting

338
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,800
for the uh, for all the folks to know is

339
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,800
our like our one-year meeting, our

340
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,000
budget meeting. And I just like think it

341
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,800
would be great to get that out there to

342
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,160
everyone to let them know that this is

343
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,680
their public hearing to hear what the

344
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,279
next year is going to be. And I don't

345
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:42,720
know if we have any plans to put it in

346
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,440
the in an announcement in anything. I

347
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,279
just think probably you'd get a lot of

348
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:49,040
people that don't typically get involved

349
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,480
to be like, "Oh, okay. This is the time

350
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:51,519
I can get involved."

351
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:54,160
>> So, we do for um every time you do

352
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,600
budgeting, we have to have a public

353
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,560
hearing and then we post it. Um, and we

354
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,000
do it through the newspaper, we do it

355
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,440
through our social media, we do it on

356
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,040
our bulletin boards.

357
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:03,440
>> So,

358
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:04,800
>> all right. Well, let your friends know,

359
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,000
let your neighbors know. This is the

360
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,320
biggest meeting coming up next one

361
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,600
>> for the whole year.

362
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,680
>> On that same vein, we um as the finance

363
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,279
committee, we put together the citizens

364
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:16,320
budget, and it's more of a a user more

365
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,440
user friendly than um this many pages.

366
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,120
It was just a two-page document last

367
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,199
year that we do insert into the news

368
00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:23,519
line.

369
00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:24,560
>> The blue one.

370
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,800
>> Yes. But it's after we approve it so

371
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,959
that there's they're not anyways. So I

372
00:15:30,959 --> 00:15:32,720
agree with you and it comes into the

373
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,199
news line in a two-page document just

374
00:15:35,199 --> 00:15:36,399
and if they have more questions

375
00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:38,399
sometimes they um come to these meetings

376
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:39,600
and ask them.

377
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,160
>> Cool.

378
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,480
>> Okay Brent, do you have any questions?

379
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:45,839
>> I do not. Thanks.

380
00:15:45,839 --> 00:15:49,519
>> Okay. If let's um move on to item B then

381
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:51,759
fraud risk assessment.

382
00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:53,519
>> Yeah. So this is something we have to do

383
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:55,440
each budget year. It's a requirement of

384
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,440
the state auditor's office. Um it

385
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:58,880
doesn't require a motion from the

386
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,040
council. We're just supposed to do kind

387
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,440
of a self assessment

388
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,360
provide this to council and and then u

389
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:08,880
um

390
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,600
Dave will report this um to the state

391
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,320
auditor's office. So

392
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,120
uh

393
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,160
okay. So, uh, Dave and I went through

394
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,560
this and,

395
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,759
um, our score is 375 out of a possible

396
00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:29,199
395. I was hesitating here. There's one

397
00:16:29,199 --> 00:16:31,839
that should be blank and for some reason

398
00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:33,360
there's a number there. I'm not sure

399
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,040
why. Uh,

400
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,680
anyway, our score is 375, which is in

401
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,240
the uh, very low category.

402
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,120
Um, so we feel like we're meeting the

403
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,040
requirements and and what they're asking

404
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,759
us to do, a separation of duties and and

405
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:53,440
all those things. That's kind of what

406
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,279
this is about.

407
00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:56,800
>> Anybody have questions?

408
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,399
>> I just have one question. Is Dave

409
00:16:58,399 --> 00:17:00,079
considered part of the management team?

410
00:17:00,079 --> 00:17:02,000
Just looking at 3A. Okay,

411
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,199
>> he is.

412
00:17:03,199 --> 00:17:09,429
>> Yep.

413
00:17:09,439 --> 00:17:11,360
» Anything else? Unless there's any

414
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:13,439
questions, we'll get this we'll get this

415
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:14,240
filed.

416
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,199
>> Perfect.

417
00:17:15,199 --> 00:17:16,319
>> With the state.

418
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,480
>> Okay. So, we'll move on to item C, which

419
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,160
is the water projects bonding

420
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,520
discussion. Mr. Anderson,

421
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,679
Mr. Anderson's from Zans's financial.

422
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:27,280
Thank you so much for coming tonight and

423
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,799
hopefully it'll be very enlightening for

424
00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:31,440
everybody. It's a pleasure being here,

425
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,480
Mayor Merrill, and uh I assisted the

426
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,320
city with the refunding of the 2010

427
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,880
bonds in 2020,

428
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,880
but that was a co year and I never was

429
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,039
able to actually attend in person. So,

430
00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:45,600
it's a pleasure to be here. It's also a

431
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,360
unique experience to come to a meeting

432
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,760
where people are actually wanting peop

433
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,160
the community to issue bonds. So, that's

434
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,960
a a really great night for me. Um but uh

435
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,320
just an introduction I've been with

436
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,480
Zans's public finance for eight years.

437
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,320
Prior to that I was the city manager of

438
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,880
Heber City for 20 years and finance

439
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,320
director for eight years prior to that.

440
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,240
Had the good fortune of meeting with

441
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,799
some members of the finance committee a

442
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:15,440
few months ago to talk about bonding and

443
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,840
the bonding process and options. And

444
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,440
we'll cover a little bit some of that

445
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,000
same information that we went over with

446
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,799
that committee a few months ago.

447
00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:28,080
But uh specifically and and this

448
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,840
conversation will have a little bit to

449
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,919
do with the sales tax bonds that we're

450
00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:34,640
talking about later this evening for the

451
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:43,280
fire station project. But anyhow, the the city currently has the 2020 uh

452
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,039
water revenue and refunding bonds. These

453
00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:49,440
are the bonds that we refinanced or

454
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,520
refunded in 2020. And you can see the

455
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,640
amortization amortization schedule

456
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,559
there. Very favorable interest rate

457
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:00,559
1.33%.

458
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:05,120
It was a 10-year term. Uh we uh

459
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:08,000
refinanced uh some of the existing bonds

460
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,520
and then borrowed some additional money

461
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,400
for a project. There's four remaining

462
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,360
principal payments left. It matures I

463
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:20,320
believe in October of uh 29. and your

464
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,200
annual payments are about $377,000

465
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,039
a year.

466
00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:27,120
So that gives you a context of what debt

467
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,919
you have currently. So Kaden, if you

468
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:32,640
could go to the next slide and we'll

469
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,440
talk about this is an exercise that I've

470
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,559
been working with Shane on as it relates

471
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:41,440
to, you know, what's been our historic

472
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,080
bond coverage for the one bond that

473
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,799
we've had outstanding as a city and what

474
00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:49,360
does it look like coverage-wise if we

475
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,160
were to issue a second bond uh later

476
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,240
this year?

477
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,440
And uh

478
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,160
for utilities or utility revenue bonds,

479
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:08,240
we typically uh re see a 1.25%

480
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,679
coverage requirement or or 1.25 25

481
00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:14,080
coverage requirement, which means that

482
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,880
your operating revenues minus your

483
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,520
operating expenses

484
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,840
uh excluding depreciation

485
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,720
needs to be at least 125% of any

486
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,840
outstanding annual bond payment.

487
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,159
Does that make sense? So, if you had a

488
00:20:30,159 --> 00:20:32,080
million dollar bond payment on an annual

489
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,159
basis, you'd have to show net revenues

490
00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:41,350
available for debt service of a,250,000.

491
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:45,039
So as you look at this historically

492
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:50,159
uh from 2021 and estimated through 2026

493
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:53,440
uh you know we've had coverage of 1.63

494
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,960
times

495
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,400
uh with and gone up as high as 2.55

496
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,080
times in in uh 2025

497
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,400
estimated to be lower this year. That's

498
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,400
excluding

499
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,240
uh using impact fees in that

500
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,960
calculation. Sometimes we like to

501
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,120
exclude impact fees in the calculation

502
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,000
because they can be cyclical. If the

503
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,720
economy turns bad and and construction

504
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,440
there's a construction downturn, then

505
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,919
you can't necessarily always rely on

506
00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:27,840
those as a a dependable revenue source.

507
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,720
So, uh

508
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,679
because you're the

509
00:21:33,679 --> 00:21:38,159
uh the managers of the water system,

510
00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:40,240
uh when you issue bonds, you make a

511
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,320
covenant with the bond holders that you

512
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,039
will pledge to keep rates at a level

513
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:47,679
that will allow you to maintain the

514
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:50,159
required coverage. And you can control

515
00:21:50,159 --> 00:21:54,240
that because uh you can uh uh modify

516
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,600
rates as needed uh through resolution.

517
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,360
Um so but if we look further and say

518
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:06,000
okay if we start a water remedy bond

519
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,159
series 2026

520
00:22:08,159 --> 00:22:11,679
starting the first payment in 2027.

521
00:22:11,679 --> 00:22:13,360
You can see those red highlighted

522
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,480
numbers. They're hard to read, but it

523
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:22,799
would show that with existing rates and

524
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,080
projected by Shane for revenues and

525
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,159
expenses, we can't meet that minimum

526
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:34,480
1.25 coverage requirement. So there obviously has to be an increase in

527
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,280
rates to get yourself in a situation or

528
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,600
a reduction in expenses, which is

529
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:40,640
probably harder to do.

530
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,919
>> Yeah. And I'll just tell you what we did

531
00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:44,400
there. We just took our our budget for

532
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,600
this coming year in the 2027 column and

533
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,720
just everything was increased by 3% per

534
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,960
year. So, so it's and and if you look at

535
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,159
2025, you know, we had 1.3 million in in

536
00:22:58,159 --> 00:23:03,440
water uh revenue. Um we had budgeted

537
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,720
lower than that in 26 and we kept it,

538
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,520
you can see it's the same in 27. not

539
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,960
knowing if people are going to conserve,

540
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,559
we're going to get less revenue, it's a

541
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:14,640
hard number to just pin right down at

542
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,720
this point.

543
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:17,760
>> So, they're estimates

544
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,200
>> and in years like this where there's

545
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,720
concerns about adequacy of water, it's

546
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,600
always a a difficult situation for

547
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,159
cities because if you encou encourage

548
00:23:28,159 --> 00:23:30,960
conservations, then your revenue uh

549
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,280
declines and it forces you to increase

550
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,240
rates to make up for the lost revenue to

551
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,559
so you can pay the bills. Um, the

552
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,120
numbers that I've budgeted, if you can

553
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:44,000
see water revenue bond series 2026 under

554
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,120
the debt service heading

555
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,360
only represent

556
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,440
interest payments only. That's the

557
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,200
absolute minimum uh amount that you

558
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,960
could pay on those bonds. These are

559
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,640
indicative rates that we've used to

560
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,039
estimate what that might be on a $9

561
00:24:01,039 --> 00:24:06,000
million bond over a 25year term. So,

562
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,360
uh, after 2030, the 2020 bonds pay off

563
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:15,909
and so that $378,000

564
00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:18,159
annual bill that you've had to pay on

565
00:24:18,159 --> 00:24:22,240
the 2020 bonds goes away. Uh so you get

566
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,520
some relief but assuming we did interest

567
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,120
only for the first uh four years of the

568
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,559
bond and then started paying principal

569
00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:34,960
on a level amortization the same payment

570
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,640
for the remaining 21 years. You're

571
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,510
looking at a payment about $640,000.

572
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,520
So it would actually be less than what

573
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,679
would be required for the first four

574
00:24:45,679 --> 00:24:47,200
years

575
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,720
uh of of the new bond.

576
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,880
Does that make sense?

577
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,480
>> Can you Can you say that amount one more

578
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:54,880
time?

579
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,000
>> $640,000

580
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,480
>> about $640,000 annual payment if you

581
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,240
have a level amortization for the last

582
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,360
21 years and interest only for the first

583
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:04,880
four.

584
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,799
>> And then what year does the current bond

585
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:08,400
roll off? 29.

586
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,720
>> Uh the final payments made in October

587
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,520
29. So fiscal year 2030.

588
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,559
>> So what does 2031 look like?

589
00:25:16,559 --> 00:25:20,640
Well, it would be $640,000

590
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,039
total if you did a level amortization

591
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:25,919
from that point on approximately

592
00:25:25,919 --> 00:25:29,440
on a 25-y year bond.

593
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,360
Any questions about debt service

594
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,200
coverage?

595
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,039
>> Have you have you done the calculation

596
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:37,039
what that would look like for each

597
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:38,559
>> household? Household

598
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:39,360
>> have not.

599
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:41,279
>> Okay.

600
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:44,000
>> I would I think you might have a model

601
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,200
that you could model you know, what kind

602
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,720
of rate increases you would have to uh

603
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,960
enact to generate the amount of revenue

604
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,240
to provide coverage and uh determine how

605
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,840
that impacts the average

606
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,320
>> we have in the city is about 3,5200.

607
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,799
>> I checked the last uh utility bill that

608
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:07,200
just went out um we sent out 2941

609
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,279
utility bills. So, some of those would

610
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:11,760
be commercial with probably less

611
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,880
irrigation use, but that's that's how

612
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,919
many we set up.

613
00:26:17,919 --> 00:26:20,720
So, let me maybe make one other comment.

614
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,640
Um, this coverage table that I prepared

615
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,640
only uses revenues from the pressurized

616
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,039
irrigation system. Um, because that's

617
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:33,440
who the beneficiary is of the bonds that

618
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,000
have been issued or anticipated to be

619
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,799
issued. The bonds that were issued in

620
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:42,159
2010 and subsequently refunded in 2020

621
00:26:42,159 --> 00:26:44,159
had a pledge of both the culinary water

622
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:46,960
and the pressurized irrigation system.

623
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,880
And that revenue pledge has to remain

624
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,919
intact as long as those 2020 bonds are

625
00:26:51,919 --> 00:26:54,559
outstanding. So if we were to issue a

626
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:58,080
new bond in the next year, we would have

627
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,799
to have that same water and sewer re I

628
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,840
mean water and secondary water revenue

629
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,720
pledge in place until the 2030 bonds uh

630
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,039
mature 2020 bonds mature and then we

631
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:13,039
could let the bond holders know that

632
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:14,480
there would only be a pledge of

633
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,039
pressurized irrigation revenues. Now,

634
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:18,640
you probably would have better looking

635
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,960
coverage if I included the the culinary

636
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,600
system, but if the improvements are

637
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,120
related to pressurized irrigation

638
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:26,640
system, it probably ought to stand on

639
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,360
its own.

640
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:30,880
>> I would like to see a more accurate

641
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,480
modeling of what that would look like.

642
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,480
But if you just, you know, I just pulled

643
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,480
up my calculator. If we're using, you

644
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,559
know, 2,940 units for the $640,000 what

645
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:43,760
we would owe after our 2020

646
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,080
restructuring sunsets, then it's about

647
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,559
I think it's $217.69

648
00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:57,830
per household a year. Is that correct?

649
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,720
» Yeah. Okay.

650
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,440
And just to clarify, the 641k,

651
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,279
I'm sorry, was it Mr.

652
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:09,120
>> Anderson? Anderson Anderson. Mr.

653
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,159
Anderson, the 641K is only the interest

654
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:13,679
or is that interest and principal?

655
00:28:13,679 --> 00:28:15,360
>> That's interesting principal for the

656
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:16,720
last 21 years.

657
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,559
>> So, it's just the first four years that

658
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:20,080
they're not doing any principal because

659
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,640
we have an existing bond that we're

660
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,520
>> right. And the reality is is that the

661
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,440
next four years are the most difficult

662
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,480
because that

663
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,399
$83 or $4,000 you see for total debt

664
00:28:34,399 --> 00:28:38,399
service for 28 29 and 30 would then go

665
00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:41,200
down to $640,000

666
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,039
and 125% of $640,000

667
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,480
is about $800,000. Mhm.

668
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,080
>> Uh and so

669
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,840
um that's the question as to how how do

670
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,159
you structure it because uh you know it

671
00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:03,200
could go down $160,000 a year, but

672
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,480
you've got to get to the point where you

673
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,960
can cover those first three years.

674
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,919
If you wanted to, you could have

675
00:29:09,919 --> 00:29:12,480
$800,000 payments over the rest of the

676
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,919
life of the loan and pay it back sooner

677
00:29:15,919 --> 00:29:17,600
as and then you wouldn't have to worry

678
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,520
about having excess revenues, but you

679
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,960
probably always have other projects,

680
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,399
too.

681
00:29:22,399 --> 00:29:27,279
>> That's where I think the PI impact fees

682
00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:29,200
could come into play as well. They could

683
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,960
help kind of make up that difference

684
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,279
between the 800 and something thousand

685
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:36,799
and 640 for those

686
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:39,520
three or four years. Um, we already make

687
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,440
part of our bond payment from impact

688
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,640
fees and then some from user fees. So, I

689
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,679
think we can make up that difference.

690
00:29:47,679 --> 00:29:49,840
>> Can you clarify the assumption on this?

691
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,840
is based on our current rate, not

692
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,279
after we've done our rate.

693
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:54,399
>> That's correct.

694
00:29:54,399 --> 00:29:54,799
>> Okay.

695
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,600
>> Jane is not Well, maybe a 3% increase.

696
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:58,320
Is that building?

697
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,600
>> That's all that's building in here right

698
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,880
now. But but I don't think that's all

699
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,039
we're doing or I mean we're right now

700
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:06,480
under rate review. Correct.

701
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,960
>> Yes. Yeah. But what it I think what it's

702
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,279
showing is a rate increase would be

703
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:12,799
needed.

704
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,039
So yes.

705
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,360
>> And then a clarification question on why

706
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,679
you can't attach some of this to

707
00:30:19,679 --> 00:30:21,840
culinary. as the water committee

708
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,039
explained to me that um the reason that

709
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:26,640
we are choosing some of these

710
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,279
improvements is to actually move more

711
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:32,320
culinary water back into our available

712
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,679
supply. So to me that indicates a

713
00:30:35,679 --> 00:30:39,279
culinary impact or benefit that we could

714
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:42,000
look at um

715
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,679
becoming part of this.

716
00:30:43,679 --> 00:30:46,799
>> Uh I I have experience with that very

717
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:48,399
issue.

718
00:30:48,399 --> 00:30:53,840
uh when I was city manager of Heber and we're implementing pressurized

719
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,159
irrigation. All new development has it,

720
00:30:56,159 --> 00:30:57,840
but there's still a lot of historic

721
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,279
Heert that does not have it. And uh some

722
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:03,360
of the culinary impact fees were allowed

723
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,360
to be used to pay for pressurized

724
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,279
irrigation to generate more culinary

725
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:12,080
capacity to take to to have more

726
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,320
capacity for culinary storage

727
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,960
>> if they weren't having to provide uh

728
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,960
outside watering through the culinary

729
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,480
system.

730
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,000
But that's that's something that you'd

731
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,440
have to determine through your impact

732
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,520
fee analysis.

733
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,200
Well, as we're looking at making these

734
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,600
decisions on which improvements to um

735
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,200
move forward with or not move forward

736
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,880
with, you know, that's been part of the

737
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,840
conversation. So, I just So, it may be

738
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,519
available depending on the direction we

739
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:42,480
go with our improvements.

740
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,559
>> Yeah, I think that's just a policy

741
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:49,430
decision in your impact reanalysis.

742
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,080
Um, because this is irrigation,

743
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,799
we do charge irrigation even though it's

744
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:56,399
not on all year round. I just want to

745
00:31:56,399 --> 00:31:58,480
make sure I'm understanding our fee

746
00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,200
structure.

747
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,600
>> It's it's like an equal pay plan on your

748
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,600
gas bill or whatever.

749
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,000
>> So, if if you looked at the 2900, I just

750
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,159
rounded to 2900. They're currently

751
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:12,399
paying in 2026 $10.85 towards a bond. Is

752
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:14,480
that listed separately or is that just

753
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,559
rounded like rolled into the full fee?

754
00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:17,840
it's rolled into the fee

755
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,960
>> and then it would go up to the max in 20

756
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,559
where would that be? Max in like 2030 to

757
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:28,480
$23 then drop down to $1840. So we're

758
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,960
talking about, you know, $13 increase

759
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,240
even though, right, because they're

760
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,320
already paying they've been paying $10

761
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,679
now for 20 years

762
00:32:39,679 --> 00:32:40,880
>> about

763
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,039
>> is the current rate study taking into

764
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:47,120
consideration um this this bond payment

765
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,080
structure or not?

766
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,840
>> Yeah. So, really an LRA study, we need to know

767
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,000
the amount of the bond and then that can

768
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,279
be plugged into the model and the rate

769
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:01,919
needed to provide coverage would be

770
00:33:01,919 --> 00:33:06,159
kicked out. So,

771
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:08,880
>> what is the timing? Um, what is our

772
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,559
timeline?

773
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:13,440
I know that was in here um

774
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,000
>> for for pressurized irrigation

775
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:16,720
specifically

776
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,720
>> for this bond. Yes.

777
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,720
>> So, that's up to the council. It's it's

778
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,360
just here for information and just

779
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,960
learning, you know, it's a $9 million

780
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,559
bond. It was, you know, the point was

781
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:29,760
made. Uh, this is the largest project in

782
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,640
our proposed budget. And so, we wanted

783
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,120
to spend a little bit more time and ask

784
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,360
Mark if he'd be gracious enough to come

785
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,360
down and help us learn more about bonds

786
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,279
since it's not something that we do

787
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:43,760
often here.

788
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,279
So, we're not trying to um So, if we

789
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:48,640
let's say we don't get this done till

790
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,240
September, um that's realistic. Then we

791
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,960
just do like a budget adjustment because

792
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,799
our rates are going going to change.

793
00:33:56,799 --> 00:33:57,279
>> Yeah.

794
00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:57,840
>> Okay.

795
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,000
>> Yeah. And that's that's why if you

796
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,000
remember back to my colorful project

797
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:02,480
sheet,

798
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:02,880
>> Yes.

799
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,960
>> the project wasn't specifically put on

800
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,720
there for that reason,

801
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,800
>> you know, right? Something changes or

802
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,119
whatever. So, we would just adjust that

803
00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:15,040
into the budget. Okay. All right.

804
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,240
Is there um with our seasonal nature of

805
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:21,359
what we do becau, you know, digging in

806
00:34:21,359 --> 00:34:23,359
water and all that, is there a best time

807
00:34:23,359 --> 00:34:25,520
to be doing water projects, not in the

808
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,240
middle of December?

809
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:31,280
>> Yeah. They say, uh, if you can bid

810
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,440
between Thanksgiving and Christmas, so

811
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,599
it's ready to go as soon as weather

812
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:37,760
permits or whatever in the spring,

813
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,119
that's ideal.

814
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:40,159
>> Okay.

815
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:42,879
>> So, if you click the year done,

816
00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:44,320
When I moved to Utah, they said there's

817
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,919
really only two seasons, construction

818
00:34:45,919 --> 00:34:48,079
and winter. That's it.

819
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:51,440
>> It's about right.

820
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,679
>> But it is something that um you know, we

821
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:58,720
have uh some fund balance. Um and Mark

822
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,800
can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but

823
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,480
like tonight we have a parameters

824
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,800
resolution for the fire station bond. If

825
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,920
we did the same thing for the PI bond,

826
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,520
um, we could start and then fund with

827
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,599
future bond funds. Is that correct,

828
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:16,320
Mark? In the parameters resolution,

829
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,720
there's language there that allows the

830
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:21,680
city to be reimbursed for any expenses

831
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,000
they incur

832
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,880
pro that are project related

833
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,760
uh for six for six days prior to the

834
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,839
adoption of the parameters resolution

835
00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:36,000
and going forward from bond proceeds.

836
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,320
So, what I'm saying is we we could, you

837
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,680
know, if the council's committed to

838
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,440
moving this pro process forward, um we

839
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,839
could begin the design process soon and

840
00:35:47,839 --> 00:35:51,359
not wait till September to start that.

841
00:35:51,359 --> 00:35:55,119
And and architectural and engineering uh

842
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:56,880
fees are automatically eligible for

843
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,040
reimbursement without a reimbursement

844
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,960
resolution or parameters resolution in

845
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,160
place. But if you had to buy land or

846
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,920
materials or things like that, you'd

847
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,119
want to have that in place if you want

848
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:09,520
to be reimbured from bond proceeds.

849
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,520
>> So what I'm understanding is that we

850
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,839
need to get going on this with planning

851
00:36:13,839 --> 00:36:16,000
and design

852
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,359
um even before just so that we can be

853
00:36:19,359 --> 00:36:22,720
ready to break ground in the spring. Is

854
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,200
that correct? And then the construction

855
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,320
process itself is how long?

856
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,800
>> Uh we don't really have a timeline for

857
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,040
that yet. But I know like the well it's you know it could be like a year to

858
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,079
drill it.

859
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:38,400
>> Okay. So not ready by next summer.

860
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:38,880
>> Equip.

861
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,160
>> It would be a whole another year after

862
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,240
that. So we're looking at even if we get

863
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:45,920
started next month and move forward with

864
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,760
if we bring it back for city council to

865
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,079
vote on for the next meeting or the

866
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:54,320
meeting after. Um even if we act on it

867
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,680
that quickly, I'm hearing that this well

868
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,720
will not be completed until 2028. That

869
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,720
would be the most likely scenario. Yes.

870
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:04,560
But we can we can work on a better

871
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,520
schedule um

872
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,880
you know going forward.

873
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,790
>> Okay.

874
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,320
In our earlier um budget review, I was

875
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,480
looking at the fund balance of our PI

876
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,720
fund, which we're projecting to end at

877
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:25,280
2.3 million, which is um based on what

878
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,160
you're showing me, like about two a

879
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,800
little over two two times our annual

880
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,200
revenue because we're not counting the

881
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,680
$900,000 grant. Anyways, I know we're

882
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,720
going back in our in our um project. So,

883
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:41,599
how does the fund balance um weigh into

884
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:45,200
like our how we are rated as a the

885
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,520
financial stability for financial

886
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,760
stability rating? Like does it help us

887
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,760
improve our interest rate or how does

888
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,280
that impact the whole analysis?

889
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,359
>> I think at the point in time that you

890
00:37:55,359 --> 00:37:57,359
have more than six months worth of

891
00:37:57,359 --> 00:37:59,280
operating funds on hand, I don't know

892
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:06,960
that that adds any more impact to the bond rating. Uh,

893
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,960
and it sounds like possibly some of that

894
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,680
fund balance would be used to put into

895
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,560
the project if the council thought that

896
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,400
was a better way to to spend down fund

897
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,000
balance. Sometimes there's capital needs

898
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,880
and that's why things get built up.

899
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,000
I don't know how much of that's

900
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,920
restricted for impact fees or anything

901
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,200
like that.

902
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,760
>> We have a separate fund for impact fees.

903
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,160
>> There is some that's restricted, but it

904
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,870
would be eligible for these projects.

905
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,079
Okay.

906
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:40,000
>> Okay. Let's move to the next slide if

907
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,359
we've had answered those questions.

908
00:38:43,359 --> 00:38:48,069
So, um,

909
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:50,480
th this is somewhat in response to a a

910
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,720
question that Councilman Hanaman, I

911
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,040
think, propo proposed and we'll talk

912
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,560
about more in more detail at the end of

913
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,680
the presentation is, you know, what are

914
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,240
the advantages of you using utility

915
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,079
revenue bonds?

916
00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:08,480
Uh usually we always use revenue bonds

917
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,800
that are associated with an enterprise

918
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,960
fund to fund the project that it's

919
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,599
related to. Uh you don't use general

920
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:19,119
fund monies to pay for water activities.

921
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:21,440
Otherwise, you're not matching the

922
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,800
expenses with the people that are

923
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:28,320
benefiting with it as as well. So the enterprise fund should be

924
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,200
self-maintaining. he should charge rates

925
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,040
high enough to sustain the fund on its

926
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,880
own without

927
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,520
subsidy or sending money to another

928
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:42,079
fund. Uh but so utility revenue bonds

929
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:43,760
match the revenue pledge with the fund

930
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,240
that benefits. It's a reliable source of

931
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:49,440
revenue. It it uh calls for a

932
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,000
competitive interest rate and the

933
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:58,240
council can approve the uh

934
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:00,240
issuance of the debt by resolution

935
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,520
through it. Uh it doesn't generate uh

936
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,320
new money. It requires a 125 coverage

937
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,200
rate and it has a higher rate than a geo

938
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,960
bond. But you typically don't see geo

939
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,680
bonds issued for

940
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,000
general I mean for utility funds. It's

941
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,280
mostly like parks and recreation centers

942
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,800
and

943
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,359
fire stations and things like that. I

944
00:40:23,359 --> 00:40:25,119
know American Fork passed a geo bond

945
00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:26,560
several years ago for their fire

946
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,920
station. Uh next slide.

947
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,640
Uh sales tax bond very similar. It's

948
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,040
another revenue bond just a different

949
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,160
pledge of security. Reliable revenue

950
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,160
source competitive interest rate

951
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,280
authorized by resolution. it requires a

952
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,640
higher uh coverage ratio because it can

953
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,920
be uh volatile as it relates to changes

954
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,359
in economic condition. I think Shane and

955
00:40:53,359 --> 00:40:55,920
I both remember what is it 2008 or

956
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,440
something like that when our we saw

957
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,160
ourselves taxed it by about 30%.

958
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,240
uh and so uh that's why it requires a

959
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:07,599
higher coverage re uh ratio, no new

960
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:10,079
revenues and a higher rate than a go,

961
00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:12,240
but it would be similar to a a water

962
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:15,440
utility rate.

963
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,400
So what where are the most likely places

964
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,319
that you can obtain funding for bonds

965
00:41:22,319 --> 00:41:25,040
that you would issue? Uh, one of the

966
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,480
things that I've been talking to Shane

967
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,800
about is possibly BWR might be a source

968
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,319
to fund secondary water projects.

969
00:41:34,319 --> 00:41:36,079
Uh,

970
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:37,680
I was very involved in a lot of the

971
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,440
funding that went into the intake tower

972
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,400
at uh, Deer Creek, which was ended up

973
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,640
being a hundred million dollar project.

974
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:47,839
and you really can't see anything

975
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:49,440
different than what was there before.

976
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,800
But uh u but board of water resources

977
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,280
were very supportive of that project. Uh

978
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,640
they've done a lot of pressurized

979
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,640
irrigation uh metering uh loans and

980
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,560
grants etc. So I think Shane's checking

981
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,480
with them to see what potential

982
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,200
eligibility the city might have to seek

983
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,480
funding from them that would typically

984
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,880
be at a reduced rate. something. I saw

985
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,440
the last meeting uh the city of Clinton

986
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,960
received a loan at 3.09% but it was a

987
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,240
15-year rate. Uh but typically they're

988
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:29,359
at a rate below market rates. Uh they do

989
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:32,000
have a typically a 1% loan origination

990
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,640
fee. It's a slower uh process.

991
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,319
Uh more hoops to jump through. uh they

992
00:42:40,319 --> 00:42:42,160
will require debt service reserve which

993
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,599
most other bonds issued uh by direct

994
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:47,520
placement or in the market typically do

995
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,280
not require

996
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,760
and uh the we could help the city

997
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,839
through that process as I've done with

998
00:42:53,839 --> 00:42:56,800
several different cities if if that was

999
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,240
a viable route to pursue

1000
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:04,000
that's the the drinking water board only

1001
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,119
handles culinary projects CIB you're not

1002
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:09,760
eligible for so uh board of water

1003
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,680
resources is probably the best option

1004
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,720
that you have available to pursue.

1005
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,119
Uh we do a lot of bonds by private

1006
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:18,960
placement and this is the method that we

1007
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,640
propose to place the bonds for the fire

1008
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,680
station, the sales tax bond and mostly

1009
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,960
that's because of size uh to go to the

1010
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,920
public market. It's a more arduous and

1011
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,920
expensive process to hire an underwriter

1012
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,599
to get a bond rating. uh draft an

1013
00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:41,599
official statement,

1014
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:44,319
uh have a trustee,

1015
00:43:44,319 --> 00:43:48,000
have disclosure counsel, and and so it's

1016
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,760
not as cost-effective. There is a higher

1017
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,319
interest rate you pay, but

1018
00:43:52,319 --> 00:43:56,880
it's uh more friendly and and and uh

1019
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,079
less costly to issue the bonds.

1020
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:00,720
Um

1021
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:02,240
>> excuse me. What is the difference in the

1022
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:03,920
interest rates between the two between

1023
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,240
private and public?

1024
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:08,880
you know, it it varies. Probably right

1025
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,119
now, you're probably looking at half a

1026
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:12,400
percent difference.

1027
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,560
>> Okay.

1028
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,160
>> Uh I've seen there's been some times

1029
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,240
when we've seen that the market rates

1030
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,560
were increasing fast and we've gone to

1031
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,319
private placement on purpose because we

1032
00:44:22,319 --> 00:44:24,880
could issue the bonds quicker and have a

1033
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,960
lower interest rate than waiting another

1034
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,800
60 days or something like that to go

1035
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,880
through the market.

1036
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,760
But right now, the market's the the best

1037
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,040
option for deals of any significant

1038
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,880
size. Uh unless you really think that

1039
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,400
you want to refinance them in a

1040
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,760
short-term period and you're willing to

1041
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,000
pay extra to have that call, those call

1042
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,720
features. We can talk about that.

1043
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:52,480
U

1044
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,640
so uh go back, uh Kaden, I'm sorry. Let

1045
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,400
me just see if there's So private

1046
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,280
placements are are deals where we send

1047
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,480
out financial information about the city

1048
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,560
to banks that are interested in

1049
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:07,839
purchasing bonds for their own

1050
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:10,480
investment portfolio.

1051
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,440
And we have several banks that uh we

1052
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,720
regularly work with uh to do that.

1053
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:19,359
Admittedly, the longer the term it is,

1054
00:45:19,359 --> 00:45:22,000
there are becomes fewer borrowers

1055
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,400
because some are more adverse to

1056
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,400
long-term financial commitments based on

1057
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:27,920
some things we've seen happen in the

1058
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,640
last few years uh with the failure of

1059
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,839
some banks. Um

1060
00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:36,480
but uh they typically offer what we call

1061
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,280
more flexible call features, which is

1062
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,480
the ability to refund or refinance the

1063
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,920
bonds at a in a in a shorter period.

1064
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,079
Some some uh purchases will allow you to

1065
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:53,599
uh refinance those bonds at any time uh

1066
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:55,520
without penalty and others will restrict

1067
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,240
it say for five years or seven years and

1068
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,280
you just have to take into consideration

1069
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,599
you know how much is value does the call

1070
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:06,000
feature have to you when you're talking

1071
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,920
about you know a tenth of a percent

1072
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,520
difference in interest rate you know

1073
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,880
what's the likelihood you'll be able to

1074
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,680
refinance this and and generate savings

1075
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,440
sooner I just finished a a refunding for

1076
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,400
Wasach County who went that route and we

1077
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,160
saved about $1.1 million by going uh

1078
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,720
privately placed for two years and then

1079
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:28,880
we went to the market combined it with

1080
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,920
another financing and saved you know

1081
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,760
$1.1 million in net present value

1082
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,920
savings by uh issuing a much larger bond

1083
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,240
together.

1084
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:44,240
Um, so usually

1085
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:46,400
I would say

1086
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,880
$7 million is probably a good line of

1087
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,920
demarcation as to where you would look

1088
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,160
to go to the market versus private

1089
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:55,920
placement.

1090
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,680
Uh, and uh,

1091
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,599
bonds issued in the market are typically

1092
00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:03,839
call protected for 10 years, which means

1093
00:47:03,839 --> 00:47:07,760
you can't refinance them or prepay them

1094
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,880
during that first 10 year period.

1095
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,599
uh they generally offer lower interest

1096
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:17,440
rates and uh but they do uh have

1097
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,400
additional fees that you incur to issue

1098
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,079
the bonds because of the bond rating

1099
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:23,599
process

1100
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:26,880
uh and the use of an underwriter to

1101
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:32,309
market the bond to multiple investors.

1102
00:47:32,319 --> 00:47:35,760
So these are bonding steps on a private

1103
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,599
placement or direct purchase and this is

1104
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:41,839
the process that we anticipate following

1105
00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:44,319
for the sales tax bonds for the fire

1106
00:47:44,319 --> 00:47:46,079
station.

1107
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:47,920
Tonight we anticipate adoption of the

1108
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,599
parameters resolution. Uh you'll uh

1109
00:47:51,599 --> 00:47:54,400
publish a notice of public hearing and

1110
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,160
would hold

1111
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,040
a public hearing to take comments from

1112
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,040
the public a month from now.

1113
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,680
on you know what impact does this have

1114
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,760
on the private sector it is and I don't

1115
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,720
think fire services are not provided by

1116
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:12,960
the by private entities so I don't see

1117
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,680
that anybody's going to come and and

1118
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,760
complain if it was a rec center you

1119
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,000
might have a different story

1120
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,559
uh there's a contest period that runs

1121
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:25,040
concurrent with the when the notices of

1122
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,599
the public hearing starts

1123
00:48:27,599 --> 00:48:30,960
uh we send out a bid

1124
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,599
The bonds are we take the bids, the

1125
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:36,240
bonds are priced, you know, close the

1126
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:37,920
closing documents prepared and we close

1127
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,520
the bonds usually about two weeks after

1128
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,720
we get the bids. I think we're on

1129
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:45,440
anticipating the bonds would close

1130
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,160
somewhere around the 19th of August,

1131
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,319
18th, 19th, something or 11th, one of

1132
00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:52,800
those dates. I think it's the 19th for

1133
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,599
the sales tax bonds.

1134
00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:58,000
Okay, next one, Kaden, please.

1135
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,040
So this just gives you an idea as to how

1136
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,520
long that process usually takes from

1137
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,800
start to finish. Kind of uh if

1138
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,000
everything goes uh is on a fairly

1139
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,880
expedited basis. 60 days for private

1140
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,559
placement and 90 days for a market, 6 to

1141
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:18,960
12 months for a state revolving fund

1142
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,720
just because of the applications have to

1143
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:22,800
be made and the materials that have to

1144
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,559
be reviewed that has to be bid out

1145
00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:27,040
before you can issue the bonds etc. Will

1146
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,920
you explain the on the last one what a

1147
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,400
Utah state revolving fund is?

1148
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,040
>> That would be borrowing money from the

1149
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,800
board of water resources say for

1150
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,319
pressurized irrigation systems.

1151
00:49:38,319 --> 00:49:40,240
>> That's that B that's that acronym you

1152
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:40,720
had before.

1153
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:43,680
>> Yeah.

1154
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:44,400
>> PWR.

1155
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,599
>> Okay. So you're just comparing

1156
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:46,319
>> water resources.

1157
00:49:46,319 --> 00:49:47,760
>> So on this slide you're just comparing

1158
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,599
that those are a six to 12 month

1159
00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:51,280
process.

1160
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,280
>> Yeah. Right now the next meeting that

1161
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,839
you could even get on would be October.

1162
00:49:55,839 --> 00:49:58,160
Uh I think the application period for

1163
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,240
the October meetings in July.

1164
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:04,640
>> Thanks.

1165
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,359
>> So uh Shane forwarded some questions to

1166
00:50:07,359 --> 00:50:09,200
me that were posed by Councilman

1167
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,839
Hannimman and Councilman Young. And if

1168
00:50:11,839 --> 00:50:13,520
you don't mind, I'll just address these

1169
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:14,800
here if that's okay.

1170
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:15,680
>> Yeah.

1171
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,200
>> So can we have a locked in agreement or

1172
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,040
ability to charge our interest rate on a

1173
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,839
bond if they go lower? And I guess my my

1174
00:50:23,839 --> 00:50:26,480
initial reaction is no. But in in second

1175
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,800
thought, you can issue variable rate

1176
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,040
bonds, but you understand that if rates

1177
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,839
go up, they would reset too. It wouldn't

1178
00:50:33,839 --> 00:50:37,040
be uh uh something that we would

1179
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,240
recommend for the city to be in a more

1180
00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:44,240
vol potentially volatile situation. But

1181
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,400
uh

1182
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,920
when as I told you before, the uh bonds

1183
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,240
privately placed give you more call

1184
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:55,200
flexibility. Uh but typically you're

1185
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,280
going to have to

1186
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,960
refund or uh refinance those bonds with

1187
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,960
another purchaser rather than

1188
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,280
renegotiate a new interest rate with the

1189
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,040
lender.

1190
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:12,160
Uh if if I I've seen it done before. If you were saying we're inclined to

1191
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,319
refund this bond, would you offer us a

1192
00:51:14,319 --> 00:51:16,880
lower interest rate? It may happen, but

1193
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,400
it probably wouldn't be at a rate

1194
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,400
commensurate with what you would get if

1195
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,000
you went through a competitive process

1196
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,030
again.

1197
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:26,720
Um,

1198
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:29,040
so like I say, bonds placed privately

1199
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,359
have more flexible call features than

1200
00:51:31,359 --> 00:51:32,960
bonds placed in the public market.

1201
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,640
You're prohibited for the first 10 years

1202
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,920
from from calling.

1203
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,520
Uh,

1204
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,599
just to clarify, and I'll ask a lot of

1205
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:43,520
questions after, when you're saying bond

1206
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,040
placed in the private market, you're

1207
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,119
talking about us going to other banks.

1208
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:48,319
Well, when you're saying they're placed

1209
00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:49,599
in the public market, you're talking

1210
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:51,599
about like folks like you, like Zans. Is

1211
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:53,680
that correct? or is the public market

1212
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,160
what you're saying has less flexibility?

1213
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:57,440
Uh is that like the

1214
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,319
>> the public market has less flexibility?

1215
00:52:00,319 --> 00:52:03,520
That's when you hire Bank of America to

1216
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,520
sell to their institutional buyers or

1217
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,760
other stock brokers that market it to

1218
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:10,720
individuals. But

1219
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:13,359
>> so is Zans's Bank part of the public

1220
00:52:13,359 --> 00:52:15,200
market or the private market?

1221
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,359
>> We are the financial advisor that takes

1222
00:52:17,359 --> 00:52:19,359
you through the bonding process.

1223
00:52:19,359 --> 00:52:21,280
>> Oh. when you forward it to one of those

1224
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:22,559
markets deciding

1225
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:24,079
>> yeah we work with you to determine

1226
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:27,040
what's the best option that for the city

1227
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,359
as to based on the the details of the

1228
00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:34,559
deal what seems to make the most sense

1229
00:52:34,559 --> 00:52:37,280
>> and uh we give you the options and you

1230
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:44,069
give us direction and we make it happen

1231
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:46,640
um can we buy it down I mean the

1232
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,119
interest rate from 4.0 4.8 or whatever

1233
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:52,000
the rate is. Uh I'm not mindful of a way

1234
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,599
to buy it down. Uh one of the reasons

1235
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:57,839
you get better interest rates from the

1236
00:52:57,839 --> 00:52:59,520
market is they're because the rates are

1237
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,240
call protected for 10 years. They know

1238
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:04,559
that nobody's going to refinance that

1239
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:07,040
bond in the first 10 years. If you

1240
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,400
extended that to 12 or 15 years, they

1241
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,079
would probably offer lower interest

1242
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:17,280
rates for those years 12 to 15. uh but

1243
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,800
it takes away your flexibility to

1244
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,520
refinance them if you lock yourself in

1245
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,280
for a longer period of time.

1246
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,040
>> So what you're saying is most bonds are

1247
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,119
locked for 10 years on whatever you get

1248
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:28,240
>> most large bonds.

1249
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,000
>> Okay.

1250
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,680
>> And if you the bonds that uh we refunded

1251
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:39,839
for you in 2020 20 were refunded after

1252
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:44,470
10 years.

1253
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,400
Um,

1254
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,119
and the cost of per resident is

1255
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:51,359
something that staff has to determine.

1256
00:53:51,359 --> 00:53:52,640
It sounds like you've done some rough

1257
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,800
calculations on what that might look

1258
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,680
like. Now,

1259
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,440
uh, what dictates the term of a bond?

1260
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:02,960
Um,

1261
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,880
and I guess my initial input is it's

1262
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,240
really dependent on what resources the

1263
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:13,280
city has available to make payments

1264
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,920
and and uh so once they the city

1265
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,000
determines what they can afford that

1266
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,640
will provide coverage then you you

1267
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,160
structure the bond accordingly. But

1268
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,240
there's things that influence you know

1269
00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:29,200
what you can afford. uh you know, the

1270
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:30,720
shorter the bond term the better because

1271
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:32,559
you end up paying less interest over the

1272
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:34,079
life of the loan and the interest rates

1273
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:36,880
that you get are are shorter or are

1274
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,880
lower for smaller uh shorter terms.

1275
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,160
But uh it still has to make financial

1276
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,520
sense to the city to uh you know finance

1277
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,119
it for that term. Uh and we think there

1278
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:53,680
ought to be relationship with who

1279
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,440
benefits from the project and who pays

1280
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,839
for the project. Um and uh there

1281
00:54:59,839 --> 00:55:02,800
shouldn't we shouldn't bond for items

1282
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,280
that for a longer period in time than

1283
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,760
the asset life is.

1284
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,960
Uh and things that could also in

1285
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:12,400
influence the term of the bond is what

1286
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,000
other plans do you have to issue debt

1287
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,280
future years? I know Sullivan Love sits

1288
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,680
on the TSSD board and we're the

1289
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,240
financial advisor there and I know

1290
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:24,000
you're mindful of all the rate increases

1291
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,839
that have been passed and are still yet

1292
00:55:25,839 --> 00:55:28,240
to come because of the multitude of

1293
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:30,400
bonds that they're issuing in the in a

1294
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,920
five-year period for their 1.4 billion

1295
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:40,000
or something like that project. So uh

1296
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,599
when you have more bonds down the road

1297
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:45,760
that may influence the term that you can

1298
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,400
would structure as well. And and then

1299
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:49,920
lastly

1300
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,040
uh if you have to increase rates what

1301
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,359
rate increase is do you think is

1302
00:55:55,359 --> 00:55:58,640
tolerable to the citizens? Uh that may

1303
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,000
influence what term of bond you would

1304
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,960
select.

1305
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,040
And that came into play at the last

1306
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,520
Tempenogus uh special service district

1307
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,040
board meeting. And I don't recall the

1308
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,599
numbers, but it was it was a lot of

1309
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:17,839
million dollars worth of extra interest,

1310
00:56:17,839 --> 00:56:20,720
I think, to go from a 20 to a 30 year,

1311
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:23,119
>> but the they felt that that would be the

1312
00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:25,280
appropriate way to go with the longer

1313
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,920
term because of all the increases and

1314
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:33,030
everything that's been going on.

1315
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,480
um layer bonds, add new bonds uh when

1316
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:41,200
the current they're paid in full. And I think the structure we've worked on

1317
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:45,280
for the the PI is really trying to layer

1318
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,040
it in that we put the minimum in place

1319
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,400
while there's the 2020 bonds are still

1320
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,000
outstanding

1321
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,559
uh and then increase the payment on that

1322
00:56:56,559 --> 00:56:59,839
new bond once the 2020 bonds are

1323
00:56:59,839 --> 00:57:01,680
retired.

1324
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,799
Um so we can have interest only or lower

1325
00:57:06,799 --> 00:57:10,240
payments. So we can have ascending or

1326
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:12,000
descending structures. There's it

1327
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,400
doesn't all have to be leveled,

1328
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,079
but you have to at least be able to pay

1329
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:18,000
the interest

1330
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,640
uh expense.

1331
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,520
Uh sales tax versus utility bonds, how

1332
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,520
repayment terms are different. I don't

1333
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:26,640
think there really is a difference.

1334
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,559
They're both revenue bonds, just a

1335
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:31,680
different revenue pledge. as to what

1336
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,319
guarantees the repayment of the bonds.

1337
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:36,400
Uh as mentioned before, they have

1338
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,640
different coverage ratios

1339
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,799
uh with the sales tax bond having a

1340
00:57:40,799 --> 00:57:43,760
higher coverage ratio. But sales tax

1341
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,960
bonds are usually pay to pay for parks

1342
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:51,680
and you know general fund type projects

1343
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:56,880
uh that parks, fire stations, road

1344
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,880
projects, those kind of things,

1345
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,480
recreation centers, the like. Uh where

1346
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,640
water funds, water bonds are going to be

1347
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:09,359
related to water system improvements.

1348
00:58:09,359 --> 00:58:11,520
Uh

1349
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,200
and then the financial metric health

1350
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,079
metrics for the city. Uh a colleague of

1351
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:19,200
mine, Japth McGee, uh who's I don't

1352
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:20,640
think there's anybody that understands

1353
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,559
bond ratings better than him in the

1354
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:24,640
state of Utah from a financial advisor

1355
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:26,799
standpoint. We've recreated all the

1356
00:58:26,799 --> 00:58:29,680
rating agencies models and can can put

1357
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,520
your data into that and give you an

1358
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,640
indicative bond rating. And uh I think

1359
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,960
from a general fund standpoint, uh it

1360
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,440
came out as a AAA rated

1361
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,000
uh from a water fund, pressurized

1362
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,920
irrigation fund that came out as a

1363
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,720
double A or double A minus rated. If you

1364
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,200
were to go to to a rating agency to get

1365
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:50,880
a bond, that's what we would anticipate

1366
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,960
would be done there. Um

1367
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,280
uh for the sales tax bond, we we

1368
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,359
wouldn't anticipate getting a rating

1369
00:58:59,359 --> 00:59:01,680
because we don't anticipate going to the

1370
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,440
public market.

1371
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,359
Uh, but would anticipate that if we did

1372
00:59:07,359 --> 00:59:13,270
$9 million for the water fund.

1373
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,240
» Did I cover those questions adequately?

1374
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:20,470
>> Yes.

1375
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,319
» Maybe some clarifications after.

1376
00:59:22,319 --> 00:59:24,000
>> Oh, no. After we're done, if that's okay

1377
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:25,119
because aren't we going to do the one by

1378
00:59:25,119 --> 00:59:25,760
one?

1379
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,920
>> No. But I think we're just going to go

1380
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,680
as is. So, if you have a question

1381
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:31,839
regarding what Mr. Anderson just

1382
00:59:31,839 --> 00:59:33,440
covered. Why don't you go ahead and ask?

1383
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,040
>> Oh, is it over? Are you done?

1384
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:36,880
>> No, just for this already. He said, "Are

1385
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:37,920
there any questions?"

1386
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:39,359
>> No, no, not for this. Not for those

1387
00:59:39,359 --> 00:59:40,720
specific, but just questions I wrote

1388
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:41,839
down as you were talking the whole

1389
00:59:41,839 --> 00:59:43,599
presentation. But do you want Jessica to

1390
00:59:43,599 --> 00:59:44,720
go first or

1391
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:45,839
>> No, I just

1392
00:59:45,839 --> 00:59:46,799
>> just spitfire.

1393
00:59:46,799 --> 00:59:47,839
>> You didn't say anything. If she has

1394
00:59:47,839 --> 00:59:49,200
questions, she can. You're the first

1395
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:49,680
one.

1396
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,280
>> I'm the first one. We're going

1397
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:52,400
>> You said you were the first one that

1398
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,480
said I've got questions. I'm addressing

1399
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:54,880
your

1400
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,319
>> I'll just say them. I'll just say them

1401
00:59:56,319 --> 00:59:57,920
and then we can move on fast as

1402
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,480
possible. Okay. So, I I think I'm

1403
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,559
getting all questions and thoughts and

1404
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:04,079
then you'll see where my head is and

1405
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:05,920
you'll be able to clarify, help, and

1406
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:06,799
>> I'll do my best.

1407
01:00:06,799 --> 01:00:08,480
>> Right. I don't do bonding very often. In

1408
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,640
fact, I never have. So, we're looking at

1409
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,280
9 million and the residence committee is

1410
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,559
asking for about 14 million for for the

1411
01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:19,200
even a bigger one. It's 641k a year.

1412
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,079
That's principal and interest, right?

1413
01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:25,280
>> After year after year four,

1414
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,400
>> just interest for the first four years.

1415
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,599
So I added it up. That's like 13.4

1416
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:34,240
million on a 9 million bond. So we're

1417
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,200
paying interest of 4.46 million. So

1418
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,520
we're we're spending an extra four to

1419
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,760
borrow nine. That's just why I'm doing

1420
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:45,359
the math. It's a lot of So I'm thinking

1421
01:00:45,359 --> 01:00:48,720
big numbers for our grass.

1422
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:50,720
Um we're in a culture where that's why

1423
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,079
I'm writing about my thoughts. We're in

1424
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:54,480
a culture where debt is now a tool. Uh

1425
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,480
it doesn't seem to be going away. Uh

1426
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,760
governments have used it and it hasn't

1427
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,720
gone well, especially long term. They're

1428
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,079
never able to get out of it. The more

1429
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:06,000
they do it, the bigger it gets, the

1430
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,640
harder it is to get out of. I I I look

1431
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,359
at this at DC every day. There's this

1432
01:01:11,359 --> 01:01:13,040
bizarre feeling where you're surrounded

1433
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:14,799
by marble

1434
01:01:14,799 --> 01:01:16,559
and steps that hurt your feet because

1435
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:18,640
they're so nice

1436
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,520
and the wood is so nice

1437
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,920
and everyone's in debt. It's It's a

1438
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:25,520
weird feeling when I'm working there.

1439
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,000
Okay. Anyways, if we were to ask our

1440
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,359
residents if they were willing to raise

1441
01:01:31,359 --> 01:01:34,240
$9 million, if we were to ask them if if

1442
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,000
they're willing to raise $9 million to

1443
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,000
fix our PI system, I'm trying to think

1444
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,480
if they would do it.

1445
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,799
>> Okay. So, some so so Okay,

1446
01:01:42,799 --> 01:01:44,480
>> thank you for that. That's good

1447
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,280
feedback. We And some of the people who

1448
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,319
have said yes um have been working in

1449
01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:52,720
our government for a while um and

1450
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,160
they've known these needs. And so I'm

1451
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,640
like where what have we been saving to

1452
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:57,920
pay for these types of things? That was

1453
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,280
another thought I have. If if we have

1454
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,280
been doing this for 10 years, what have

1455
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,599
we been saving? So anyways, the we have

1456
01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:05,359
a lot of metering. We have a lot of rate

1457
01:02:05,359 --> 01:02:07,520
increases. We have a lot of talk of

1458
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,640
bonds. Um there are things I'd like to

1459
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,520
add to this of individual storage, more

1460
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,280
disseminated storage, rain barrels,

1461
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:16,559
people able to store on their own

1462
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:18,559
property. It's much cheaper. These these

1463
01:02:18,559 --> 01:02:19,680
are just thoughts. I'm getting to it.

1464
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,200
>> Right. No, but do you have a question

1465
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:22,319
for Mr. Anderson?

1466
01:02:22,319 --> 01:02:24,319
>> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I'm getting to them.

1467
01:02:24,319 --> 01:02:26,240
So,

1468
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:27,920
we're going to talk first first

1469
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:28,880
question. You're going to be here for

1470
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,559
the next section about the specific fire

1471
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:33,520
uh bond, right? Yes.

1472
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:34,799
>> Okay, good. So, I'll save those

1473
01:02:34,799 --> 01:02:36,160
questions for then.

1474
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,200
>> So, so what is the rate of the isish of

1475
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:41,040
the 9 million bond? What What are we

1476
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:43,599
looking at? I said 4.8. Am I off on

1477
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:44,240
that? Um

1478
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:45,200
>> is it more in the

1479
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:46,880
>> I think the last indicative numbers we

1480
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,720
ran for Shane were around 4.4 something.

1481
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:51,599
So that's kind of what

1482
01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:52,720
>> a 25-y year bond.

1483
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,040
>> So we're look ours is 21 year, right?

1484
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:55,200
Well,

1485
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,599
>> it's 25. It's interest only the first

1486
01:02:57,599 --> 01:02:59,920
four years is the way we currently

1487
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:00,319
structure.

1488
01:03:00,319 --> 01:03:02,160
>> Okay. So it's like 21 and then four only

1489
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:03,680
interest. So and you're looking we're at

1490
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,319
about a 4.4. That's that ballpark of

1491
01:03:06,319 --> 01:03:07,920
where we're talking about when we can

1492
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,359
explain to

1493
01:03:09,359 --> 01:03:11,760
>> based on current rates,

1494
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,839
>> right? Which could change in in the next

1495
01:03:13,839 --> 01:03:17,359
>> Iran war uh impacted the bond.

1496
01:03:17,359 --> 01:03:20,000
>> You kind of answered this. they cannot

1497
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,640
be bought down because there's that

1498
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,559
10-year lock. Um, if we reach a point in

1499
01:03:26,559 --> 01:03:31,200
our next several years and rates go down

1500
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,920
back into the threes,

1501
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,880
uh, what is our availability to

1502
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,960
refinance? Do we just wait for that uh,

1503
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,200
10 years or are we still locked for the

1504
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,079
21 to 25 years? How how easy can we

1505
01:03:44,079 --> 01:03:46,000
refinance? I believe he said for 10

1506
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,839
years we're locked into this bond at

1507
01:03:47,839 --> 01:03:49,680
that interest rate.

1508
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,839
>> At 10 years then we can do the buyback

1509
01:03:51,839 --> 01:03:54,720
that we did with our previous water bond

1510
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,760
that we refinanced back in 2020 or was

1511
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:58,720
it 2021?

1512
01:03:58,720 --> 01:03:59,359
>> It's 20.

1513
01:03:59,359 --> 01:04:01,680
>> So yes

1514
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:03,920
10 years we'll be locked into that rate.

1515
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,839
>> It's bad if the rates go down but if the

1516
01:04:05,839 --> 01:04:07,440
rates go up it's good that we're locked

1517
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:08,240
in.

1518
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:09,119
any you know

1519
01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:11,280
>> okay I'm understanding this is new I not

1520
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,359
heard the 10-year lock thing and the so

1521
01:04:13,359 --> 01:04:16,640
this is good to uh to understand now now

1522
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,799
does that lock apply to both of those

1523
01:04:18,799 --> 01:04:22,480
different servicing uh sectors you said

1524
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:24,640
there was public that was more uh

1525
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:26,240
restrictive and private which was less

1526
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:27,839
restrictive is that 10-year lock on both

1527
01:04:27,839 --> 01:04:28,799
of them

1528
01:04:28,799 --> 01:04:31,200
>> uh typically not a 10-year lock on the

1529
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:32,160
private placement

1530
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:33,200
>> okay because that gives you more freedom

1531
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:34,400
it's generally a little bit of a higher

1532
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:35,680
rate

1533
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,559
>> okay Um,

1534
01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:40,160
okay. For the for the residents in this,

1535
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:41,839
one thing that would help is combine

1536
01:04:41,839 --> 01:04:44,720
this um ask for bonding and this plan

1537
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:49,760
for bonding with um plans for um uh

1538
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,520
helping those who are retired or not

1539
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,000
well off and adding other options that

1540
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:55,680
aren't as expensive. That would really

1541
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,280
push me into the pot. And we've talked

1542
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,280
about that, Steve. Um

1543
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,200
>> I did want to correct one thing. You

1544
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,520
mentioned that the water advisory

1545
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,280
committee wanted more than the 9

1546
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,000
million. I believe from when I spoke

1547
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,559
with them that they were support of

1548
01:05:10,559 --> 01:05:12,240
there's two phases, right? There's phase

1549
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,799
one and phase two that they're in favor

1550
01:05:14,799 --> 01:05:16,720
of the 9 million which are all the

1551
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,760
projects in phase one. They are not

1552
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,400
asking to do phase two right now. That

1553
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,319
will be a little bit further down the

1554
01:05:24,319 --> 01:05:26,000
line.

1555
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:27,839
>> Molton, can I ask a question on that?

1556
01:05:27,839 --> 01:05:29,760
That's their recommendation, but we

1557
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,760
haven't had a council conversation about

1558
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:32,480
that,

1559
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,480
>> right? No, that's totally fine. But

1560
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:36,240
that's and that's also the

1561
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,319
recommendation of Horox who did our

1562
01:05:38,319 --> 01:05:39,760
water study,

1563
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,559
>> but also in learning more about this

1564
01:05:42,559 --> 01:05:45,119
process. You know, we're planning as Ben

1565
01:05:45,119 --> 01:05:47,119
mentioned for generational changes. Of

1566
01:05:47,119 --> 01:05:48,720
course, we're looking at water

1567
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:52,000
depleting. And so, I think as a council,

1568
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,559
we need to talk about is phase one

1569
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:58,160
enough? I mean it wasn't enough in 2021

1570
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:02,000
and so we need to consider um do we at

1571
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:02,799
this bonding moment

1572
01:06:02,799 --> 01:06:05,039
>> if it wasn't enough in 2021 why did you

1573
01:06:05,039 --> 01:06:07,280
fight some of these projects so much

1574
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,079
>> so there was just one project that

1575
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:12,319
actually could have been solved by

1576
01:06:12,319 --> 01:06:14,720
allocating fund to a bigger solution

1577
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,680
which is the cup upsize. So those are

1578
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:19,839
again council conversations that we can

1579
01:06:19,839 --> 01:06:22,640
look at in planning for the future long

1580
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:23,520
term.

1581
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,359
>> In planning for the future long term

1582
01:06:25,359 --> 01:06:28,319
from what I understand is that cup is

1583
01:06:28,319 --> 01:06:31,359
not the end all. It's not our savior in

1584
01:06:31,359 --> 01:06:32,720
water. It's absolutely

1585
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,319
>> we getting less and less. We need to

1586
01:06:34,319 --> 01:06:36,000
find our own resources.

1587
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:37,839
>> Yeah. It's one. So that was it. I just

1588
01:06:37,839 --> 01:06:39,920
thought as a council we should also take

1589
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,880
the recommendation of the committee and

1590
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,760
discuss the phase one. All I was saying

1591
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:49,760
was that I believe that um Andrew

1592
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,839
misunderstood and I'm not sure if you

1593
01:06:51,839 --> 01:06:53,839
got that information from speaking with

1594
01:06:53,839 --> 01:06:55,839
the committee members or whatnot that

1595
01:06:55,839 --> 01:06:57,440
all that the committee was recommending

1596
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,280
was phase one and I believe this is the

1597
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:00,400
total amount that we're having

1598
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,720
discussions on tonight which is the 9

1599
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:03,520
million

1600
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:05,440
>> to clarify this is good good

1601
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,000
conversation we all love that um to

1602
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,400
clarify what I'm hearing is three things

1603
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:16,400
so correct everyone uh a bond proposal that I've heard from staff

1604
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:21,119
which has two elements the well and

1605
01:07:21,119 --> 01:07:23,440
booster pumps for about 9 million that's

1606
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,720
what I've heard not all five of the

1607
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,799
first phase like you're saying what I'm

1608
01:07:28,799 --> 01:07:32,000
hearing from uh the uh gentleman from

1609
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,520
Zans is 9 million for actually he didn't

1610
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:37,839
specify for what so and then what I've

1611
01:07:37,839 --> 01:07:41,440
heard from meeting with the committee is

1612
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,319
around 14 million for the first 10

1613
01:07:44,319 --> 01:07:46,640
items. So that that's what I've been

1614
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,039
told. Feel free to clarify as you

1615
01:07:49,039 --> 01:07:49,920
solidify.

1616
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,280
>> I believe they're clarified that they

1617
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,359
were in support of phase one for this

1618
01:07:53,359 --> 01:07:54,720
phase of bonding.

1619
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:55,119
>> Okay.

1620
01:07:55,119 --> 01:07:56,720
>> Sarah can clarify it. She's on the

1621
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:57,200
committee.

1622
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,039
>> Okay. Well, just just even saying that.

1623
01:07:59,039 --> 01:07:59,359
>> Yeah.

1624
01:07:59,359 --> 01:08:02,400
>> The first five items it that would be

1625
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,640
different 9 million than what staff is

1626
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:06,640
proposing with just two items. No.

1627
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:07,520
>> Am I incorrect?

1628
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:11,359
>> No. So the 9 million came from

1629
01:08:11,359 --> 01:08:13,760
>> we asked Horox to tell us which projects

1630
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:15,440
would be the most impactful,

1631
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:15,760
>> right?

1632
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:20,880
>> So they came back with two projects, the new well and the booster pumps on

1633
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,000
400 West upsizing those and the piping

1634
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:25,679
that's kind of associated with that

1635
01:08:25,679 --> 01:08:28,319
those uh projects.

1636
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:31,679
Um and they came with a price tag

1637
01:08:31,679 --> 01:08:33,440
estimated at 9 million

1638
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:34,480
>> for those two. Yes.

1639
01:08:34,480 --> 01:08:36,319
>> Oh, for those two.

1640
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:37,600
Well, see, this is where I'm having a

1641
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:38,640
little bit of confusion. This is good

1642
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:39,759
we're talking about it so we can get

1643
01:08:39,759 --> 01:08:41,279
clarification.

1644
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:43,359
>> So, um,

1645
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:45,279
>> whatever it is, if it's the first five

1646
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:47,359
items, that will be helpful to know

1647
01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:49,600
because we will be able to express to

1648
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:50,799
the residents

1649
01:08:50,799 --> 01:08:52,400
>> the different because they they they

1650
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:56,480
solve very different problems. Uh, the I

1651
01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:57,839
have the five items here.

1652
01:08:57,839 --> 01:09:00,000
>> The first five would be 14 million.

1653
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,120
Those two would be nine. So the Heritage

1654
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,440
Hills well and the 400 West booster pump

1655
01:09:05,440 --> 01:09:08,080
and pipe up sizing would be nine. But

1656
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,400
the first five

1657
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,120
>> the that also includes the Grove Drive

1658
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,359
and mid zone repairs, Healey booster

1659
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:17,839
upsize and the low zone take expansion.

1660
01:09:17,839 --> 01:09:20,640
>> And to clarify and to clarify 9 million

1661
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,799
is the base cost that is not with the

1662
01:09:22,799 --> 01:09:25,920
interest that would put it around 13.4

1663
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,400
million on a 9 million bond and on a 14

1664
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:30,880
million bond we'd be nearing 18 to 20

1665
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:32,239
million. So I think that

1666
01:09:32,239 --> 01:09:33,839
>> with interest that's like the total cost

1667
01:09:33,839 --> 01:09:34,239
of it

1668
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:35,920
>> right. No that's how amorization works

1669
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:36,480
but

1670
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:37,759
>> I know there is hard it helps.

1671
01:09:37,759 --> 01:09:40,960
>> If we move on to this table my

1672
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:42,319
understanding the low zone tank

1673
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:43,520
expansion that's what you're in

1674
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:45,679
discussion with to try to get a grant

1675
01:09:45,679 --> 01:09:47,359
right that's the holding tank.

1676
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:49,920
>> Yeah we're we're working with Horox uh

1677
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:54,320
engineers to try to find some

1678
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:55,679
help with some of those projects. So

1679
01:09:55,679 --> 01:09:57,600
that's number four that we are currently

1680
01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:59,600
working on and working with the federal

1681
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:01,280
government to get funding for that

1682
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:01,760
project.

1683
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:02,719
>> Yeah, thank you for doing that.

1684
01:10:02,719 --> 01:10:06,239
>> And then um the Healey booster size and

1685
01:10:06,239 --> 01:10:08,560
the Grove PRV because of the smaller

1686
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,159
amounts I think we were hoping that we

1687
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:12,320
would be able to knock those off in a

1688
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,080
year and not have to do it all in the

1689
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:15,920
bonding process. So that's why you're

1690
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:17,920
seeing So they're recommending doing all

1691
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,440
five and the plan is to do these five,

1692
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:24,000
but we're only bonding for $9 million.

1693
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:25,199
>> For the two for the two

1694
01:10:25,199 --> 01:10:27,440
>> Yes. $9 million of it and then going for

1695
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:30,480
a grant that who has had experience

1696
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:33,120
doing this kind of stuff who um will be

1697
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,520
helping us out for the $5 million

1698
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,239
project and that we would be able to do

1699
01:10:38,239 --> 01:10:40,719
the smaller projects

1700
01:10:40,719 --> 01:10:41,840
without the bonding.

1701
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:43,760
>> Yeah. Thank you. So that's how

1702
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:45,440
>> just a couple last ones. Is there is

1703
01:10:45,440 --> 01:10:46,239
there a penalty?

1704
01:10:46,239 --> 01:10:47,679
>> Oh, so I was going to say so it's a mix

1705
01:10:47,679 --> 01:10:50,239
of debt and cash which I know you are

1706
01:10:50,239 --> 01:10:52,400
complaining about um or you know you

1707
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:56,880
feel debt is a a negative um factor in

1708
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,040
this decision. So some of the we could

1709
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:01,520
tell our residents that some of the um

1710
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,159
projects would be paid for with cash and

1711
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:06,800
as I pointed out we do have some fund

1712
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,360
balance. We're going to address that in

1713
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:11,440
a different meeting. how much is

1714
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:13,920
expendable on these projects and how

1715
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:15,679
much could be generated just with

1716
01:11:15,679 --> 01:11:18,320
revenues like you know our mayor is

1717
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,560
talking about. So I do feel like we're

1718
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,000
um we're kind of meeting in the middle

1719
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,199
of not going into debt for 100% of the

1720
01:11:25,199 --> 01:11:27,679
five projects but for the projects that

1721
01:11:27,679 --> 01:11:30,400
are beyond our capacity to really get

1722
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,480
money in the short run there's not

1723
01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:35,199
really another option. So, um, that's

1724
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:36,800
how I'm looking at it, but I think your

1725
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:39,280
questions are good to to see like there

1726
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,760
are five projects. They are, you know, a

1727
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:43,760
bigger amount than 9 million, but we

1728
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,280
only are going to finance to

1729
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,120
what's the mayor has explained.

1730
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,120
>> Well, and to your point, as a council,

1731
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:52,640
we haven't discussed as we're making

1732
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,040
this generational decision, do we want

1733
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:57,040
to look at some of those buildout

1734
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,360
improvements that come from the second

1735
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:03,040
table? I mean, to really long-term plan,

1736
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:05,360
you know, my understanding is right now

1737
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,560
we're going in and um repairing or

1738
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,840
upsizing some of the 9-in pipes to 14

1739
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,880
because at the time they just didn't

1740
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,360
build to the level that they should

1741
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,159
have. So we have this moment to really

1742
01:12:20,159 --> 01:12:22,159
look at it and I appreciate the water

1743
01:12:22,159 --> 01:12:24,000
committee's input because it's given us

1744
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,800
a starting point but as a council we

1745
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,840
haven't discussed these five things

1746
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:33,280
table two like really maybe we want to

1747
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:35,600
bond for more to the gentleman's point

1748
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:38,560
in the audience hey we want you guys to

1749
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,679
put resources into water. So my

1750
01:12:41,679 --> 01:12:43,040
question, I think this is a good

1751
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,600
conversation to go back to um this

1752
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,920
presentation about layering. When you

1753
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,239
have a multi-phaseed project that would

1754
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:52,640
cost, let's just say we're going to

1755
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,480
shoot the moon and shoot for the moon

1756
01:12:54,480 --> 01:12:56,480
and go all the way up to like 15 million

1757
01:12:56,480 --> 01:12:58,480
that we need to get everything done. Is

1758
01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:00,400
there a way to do like frontload the 9

1759
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:02,480
million then five years later do the ne

1760
01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:04,159
or is that going to just re we have to

1761
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:07,600
redo this whole process over again?

1762
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:08,239
>> Um

1763
01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:10,000
>> that's what I meant by layering. Can we

1764
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,719
like finance it as as the projects are

1765
01:13:12,719 --> 01:13:14,320
coming online?

1766
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,120
>> Sure. You just have to have your rates

1767
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:18,719
at a place to where you can meet your

1768
01:13:18,719 --> 01:13:20,960
debt service coverage whenever you're

1769
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,560
adding new layers. And we can we can

1770
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,719
wrap around existing debt and kind of

1771
01:13:26,719 --> 01:13:29,520
like what I'm proposing with the 2020 20

1772
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,400
bonds to just pay interest only until

1773
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:35,520
2030 and then start repaying principal.

1774
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,600
I I guess I uh one of the problems

1775
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:39,760
>> is that only possible if in a private

1776
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:41,600
placement or even public debt they would

1777
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:42,239
do that.

1778
01:13:42,239 --> 01:13:44,719
>> They would do that if the financial

1779
01:13:44,719 --> 01:13:48,960
stability looks solid and Utah is very

1780
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,640
well favored in the bond world. This is

1781
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,280
even though uh that we have issued a lot

1782
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,920
of debt as a state, we still looked at

1783
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,000
as very conservative and are very good

1784
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,400
at paying our bills. I would probably

1785
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,520
say there's really three ways to to do a

1786
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,159
project. One is you set up and you you

1787
01:14:08,159 --> 01:14:11,120
save you

1788
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,000
set aside money and do it all at one

1789
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,640
time. You do it incrementally or you do

1790
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:18,880
it with bonding or a combination of all

1791
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,199
three. And one of the factors you want

1792
01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:25,120
to look at is how fast do we need this?

1793
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,920
>> How critical is it? What's the cost of

1794
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,280
inflation versus the cost of bonding?

1795
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:34,320
uh is inflation at a rate that's higher

1796
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:36,159
or lower than what your borrowing rate

1797
01:14:36,159 --> 01:14:38,320
is? If it's at a higher rate than your

1798
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:39,679
borrowing rate, it's probably good to

1799
01:14:39,679 --> 01:14:44,320
fix the cost of the the project now,

1800
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,600
uh rather than have it cost 20% more,

1801
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:50,800
you know, a year or two from now. And

1802
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:52,400
admittedly when I started working with

1803
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,520
TSSD in 2023

1804
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:58,960
uh you know we were probably 900 million

1805
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,520
dollar project that's now probably a a

1806
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,440
billion4 project just because of

1807
01:15:03,440 --> 01:15:06,159
inflationary costs.

1808
01:15:06,159 --> 01:15:10,400
So uh I think those are it financing is

1809
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,159
a tool

1810
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:16,880
>> uh and it it uh it has its place.

1811
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:18,800
You said there was you could set it

1812
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:20,880
aside, you could do some other option or

1813
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,080
you could bond. What was that middle

1814
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:22,480
option?

1815
01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:26,000
>> Um do it uh phase it, do it in small

1816
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:28,159
increments.

1817
01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:30,080
>> Uh one of the last questions was

1818
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:31,600
>> a lot of projects are really hard to

1819
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,120
phase and have something meaningful to

1820
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:34,640
show for it.

1821
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:36,320
>> Uh is there a fee for paying them off

1822
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,719
early?

1823
01:15:38,719 --> 01:15:41,360
>> No, not typically. uh you just have

1824
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:42,960
unless

1825
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:49,360
some privately placed bonds may have a

1826
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:51,920
uh a penalty feature that if you wanted

1827
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:53,520
to call it in year two or something like

1828
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:55,440
that, they may charge you 1% of the

1829
01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:57,280
outstanding par if you wanted to pay it

1830
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,880
off early, but most of them are either

1831
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:02,560
you can or you can't.

1832
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:04,080
>> Andrew, if you wanted to donate $9

1833
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:05,920
million, you should just do it now so we

1834
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:07,600
don't have to process.

1835
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,719
>> It really help. Well, yeah. I like I

1836
01:16:10,719 --> 01:16:12,560
like you. You You gave us a lot of

1837
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:14,320
options. I think he's a good guy. He's

1838
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:16,320
saying we can set it He's given us a lot

1839
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:18,080
of options. He's saying you can set

1840
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:19,520
aside money. I feel like you should come

1841
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:21,840
to our family home evening.

1842
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,080
You can set aside money. You can phase

1843
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:25,920
it. Do it over time. I think we've

1844
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:30,159
talked about that. We can bond um I

1845
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:32,159
think I think a combination of that.

1846
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:35,040
bond for emergencies, phase it for good

1847
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,520
planning, and set aside like we should

1848
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:39,920
be doing the last decade, and I think

1849
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:41,760
we'll have a good generational plan

1850
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,000
ahead. Right now, we're just saying bond

1851
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:44,880
it all.

1852
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:45,600
>> Um,

1853
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:46,400
>> no, we're not.

1854
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,800
We're bonding two out of

1855
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:51,679
the what, nine? Well, no, out of if

1856
01:16:51,679 --> 01:16:53,600
you're looking at the entire table. So,

1857
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:56,239
yes, in phase one, two out of five bond

1858
01:16:56,239 --> 01:16:59,040
those items. Phase two is $20 million

1859
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,120
worth of projects and that's another

1860
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:02,960
five different items.

1861
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:05,280
>> So, we're suggesting that we only bond

1862
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,560
for two out of the top priority objects.

1863
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:09,840
>> Can I ask you something, Mayor?

1864
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:10,400
>> Sure. Can

1865
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:11,600
>> I

1866
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:14,080
>> Oh, Brent, go ahead. Yeah, just one one

1867
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:16,719
thought on that, Andrew and others is um

1868
01:17:16,719 --> 01:17:18,719
these are uh enterprise funds and part

1869
01:17:18,719 --> 01:17:21,440
of the part of the rate process is has

1870
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:24,320
developed a surplus and that's because

1871
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:25,920
we have infrastructure needs that are

1872
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,880
foreseeable in the future. So like the

1873
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:30,640
mayor said, part of that is being used

1874
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,640
to fund some of those, but we just don't

1875
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,800
have enough to meet the current needs

1876
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:38,000
for these priority projects. So that's

1877
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,400
where the bonding comes in. And you

1878
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,239
know, we always want to have that extra

1879
01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:44,719
amount that we're that were built into

1880
01:17:44,719 --> 01:17:46,800
our rates. So, we are anticipating

1881
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:50,000
future needs, but we've kept rates down

1882
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,080
for so long and it's a certain amount.

1883
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:53,920
We just don't have the amount necessary

1884
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,400
to to make up that difference. So,

1885
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:58,640
that's why seems to me that bonding

1886
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,960
makes a lot of sense for that additional

1887
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,600
amount to spread the cost out and then

1888
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,600
would build that up again for future

1889
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,520
projects.

1890
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:08,719
>> Mayor, if I might.

1891
01:18:08,719 --> 01:18:11,280
>> Yes. My suspicion is you probably have

1892
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:13,760
an impact fee study as well as a rate

1893
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:15,600
study that talks about when these

1894
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:17,920
capital projects would be done, what

1895
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:22,560
kind of bonding would be required and what your rates would need to be to

1896
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,880
sustain I mean to meet the coverage

1897
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:26,880
requirements. And if you follow that,

1898
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:28,560
you should be in pretty good shape

1899
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:30,480
assuming they're up to date and the

1900
01:18:30,480 --> 01:18:32,159
costs are accurate, etc.

1901
01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:34,719
>> Yeah. I I just want to point out um in

1902
01:18:34,719 --> 01:18:37,520
our own experience here as a city, we

1903
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:40,960
have um been slow to get started on our

1904
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,760
fire station and the costs have gone up

1905
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,320
um faster than interest rates in in my

1906
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:49,520
estimation. Um and so it doesn't always

1907
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:51,920
favor us. Like you said, the first thing

1908
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:54,560
is to save. Sometimes you end up costing

1909
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:56,880
the taxpayers more if you sit around and

1910
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,040
wait to save the money because

1911
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,520
inflationary pressures have just been

1912
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:03,600
unprecedented. Probably the past three

1913
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,400
years, what would you say, five years?

1914
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:08,880
It's just been crazy. This well back in

1915
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,280
2020 would have been $2 million instead

1916
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:13,520
of almost $6 million. So that's what

1917
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:17,120
we're saying is the time to act is, you

1918
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:19,600
know, like I just I've been on the

1919
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:21,760
internet looking at the history of rates

1920
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,960
and we're we're below right now the the

1921
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,080
50 no wait 70 where we are the 50-year

1922
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,239
average. So interest rates go up,

1923
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:31,760
inflation can go up. There's so many

1924
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,800
things that can change that in the end

1925
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,920
would hurt us by delaying. So that is a

1926
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:39,920
that to me is something a lesson learned

1927
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,800
that if we delay to save the money

1928
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:44,719
sometimes we're actually hurting our

1929
01:19:44,719 --> 01:19:47,520
taxpayers and specifically with this

1930
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:48,640
well Christie can

1931
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:51,360
>> in addition in addition to that is if

1932
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:52,960
you're going to raise the money to save

1933
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:54,159
for the future you're going to have to

1934
01:19:54,159 --> 01:19:56,080
raise rates anyway. You're either

1935
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,960
raising the money now and and waiting to

1936
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:00,080
expend it. You're going to have to raise

1937
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,400
the rates in either scenario. Yeah,

1938
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,719
there will be an interest cost, but that

1939
01:20:04,719 --> 01:20:08,080
may be offset by the reduction in the

1940
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,000
inflationary cost for the the

1941
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,560
improvements later on.

1942
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:15,199
So when it comes to timing and phase one

1943
01:20:15,199 --> 01:20:17,040
and phase two, to Jessica's point, then

1944
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:19,199
if if costs are going up,

1945
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:21,679
>> is it still better to phase and do phase

1946
01:20:21,679 --> 01:20:23,760
one and then phase two to get provide us

1947
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,719
time to maybe save some more money to do

1948
01:20:26,719 --> 01:20:28,800
phase two or because we know that some

1949
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:31,679
of those costs will go up. Is it more

1950
01:20:31,679 --> 01:20:33,679
prudent to

1951
01:20:33,679 --> 01:20:35,040
>> That's why we only need the crystal

1952
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:36,000
ball.

1953
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:37,440
>> Okay, we all need a crystal ball

1954
01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:39,440
>> or just have a council conversation. We

1955
01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:41,840
haven't. Now that we're all educated and

1956
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:43,679
we've met with the water committee and

1957
01:20:43,679 --> 01:20:46,480
we have all the information, now we can

1958
01:20:46,480 --> 01:20:48,800
talk.

1959
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:50,560
>> Has there ever been a city that you've

1960
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,760
worked with? Uh because this this hits

1961
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,600
people different, this type of a thing,

1962
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,679
and I love your ideas. Uh, has there

1963
01:20:57,679 --> 01:20:59,360
been a city that you've worked with that

1964
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,600
has been able to do something like this

1965
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:03,600
but penalize

1966
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,320
uh to a lesser degree those who are

1967
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:10,800
retired, those who are uh lower income,

1968
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:17,830
those who don't weather this so well.

1969
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,120
I don't know to give you to give you

1970
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:20,320
some background about I mean while you

1971
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:21,760
can think of while you're thinking about

1972
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,000
that I feel like you know Jessica is

1973
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,560
saying let's bond for the full 29 plus

1974
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:27,040
million

1975
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:28,800
>> I'm saying let's talk about it so don't

1976
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:30,560
take one thing and then make it

1977
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:31,120
something else

1978
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:33,360
>> you just said let's do all of these also

1979
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:34,880
I said let's talk about it

1980
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,840
>> that's because of my concern with

1981
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:39,920
>> how that would affect our residents and

1982
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,400
because of the ones that are um

1983
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:44,080
>> retired on social security

1984
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:45,120
>> yes

1985
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,760
>> um that I feel like if we take these

1986
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:51,040
steps that we can face it and let's

1987
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:52,960
start on these projects. They're needed

1988
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:54,000
now.

1989
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:55,360
>> Proceed with that

1990
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:58,080
>> and then yes, look to the future.

1991
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,639
>> But what we're doing now is something

1992
01:22:00,639 --> 01:22:03,840
that will affect generations to come.

1993
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,159
>> You know, it's going to be a long-term

1994
01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:08,480
project and it will benefit everybody in

1995
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:10,639
the city that is pie.

1996
01:22:10,639 --> 01:22:12,960
>> And so I feel like let's start with this

1997
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:14,719
because this is a huge bond for our

1998
01:22:14,719 --> 01:22:17,440
city. this is the largest one we've had.

1999
01:22:17,440 --> 01:22:19,600
>> And so instead of saying, "Hey, let's go

2000
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:21,840
for the full 30 million, let's start

2001
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,239
with nine million, see how that goes,

2002
01:22:24,239 --> 01:22:26,880
and then see how we're going to how

2003
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,280
we're going to go about doing the future

2004
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:32,719
projects." You know, for me, when we're

2005
01:22:32,719 --> 01:22:34,400
looking at projects and how we finance

2006
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:36,560
it, for me, it's always how do we find

2007
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,719
the funding? And my preference is

2008
01:22:38,719 --> 01:22:41,120
grants. I would much rather go for a

2009
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:42,880
federal or a state grant if it's

2010
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,199
available. just right now there's

2011
01:22:45,199 --> 01:22:47,120
nothing available. The closest thing

2012
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:50,239
that we have to a grant is the um from

2013
01:22:50,239 --> 01:22:52,960
DWR which is a lower interest rate but

2014
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:54,400
from what I'm understanding from what

2015
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:56,800
Mr. Anderson is saying is that the

2016
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:58,800
process is a lot longer and that could

2017
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:01,040
actually be a hindrance to us and

2018
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,120
actually end up costing us more in the

2019
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:04,159
long run.

2020
01:23:04,159 --> 01:23:06,880
>> Um so the savings there to me is

2021
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:08,080
negligible.

2022
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:11,120
>> Um and it might not be a savings at all.

2023
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:14,080
Um but yeah, I feel like we've had this

2024
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,400
conversation and yes, we will come back

2025
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:18,080
and talk about it

2026
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:20,000
>> and vote on it, but this is just an

2027
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,199
educational discussion on how bounds

2028
01:23:23,199 --> 01:23:23,600
work.

2029
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:24,239
>> It's great.

2030
01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:26,480
>> And while I appreciate your adversity to

2031
01:23:26,480 --> 01:23:28,719
being in debt, I think you really do

2032
01:23:28,719 --> 01:23:31,440
need to take into consideration what um

2033
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:34,239
their council has said regarding, you

2034
01:23:34,239 --> 01:23:36,719
know, you look at this. Well, in 2020,

2035
01:23:36,719 --> 01:23:38,880
it was estimated to cost $2 million.

2036
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,920
>> Yeah. And now in 2026 it's $6 million.

2037
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,560
And that's only in six years. That's at

2038
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,400
a rate of what? 200%.

2039
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:47,760
>> That's too much.

2040
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:50,560
>> And so if we would have done it then and

2041
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:52,880
even if we had to bond then it still

2042
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:54,639
would have saved us more than the four

2043
01:23:54,639 --> 01:23:56,239
million for the cost of doing the

2044
01:23:56,239 --> 01:23:58,639
project now. So we have to think of it

2045
01:23:58,639 --> 01:24:02,400
that way. And costs from what I have

2046
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:04,000
heard, especially with my experience

2047
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:05,760
with the fire station, they're not going

2048
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,159
down anytime soon. I haven't heard a

2049
01:24:08,159 --> 01:24:11,199
contractor go, "Oh, wow. Wood prices has

2050
01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:13,040
really gone down and labor prices."

2051
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:14,320
Yeah, nobody wants to make money

2052
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:16,639
anymore. You know, it's it's just going

2053
01:24:16,639 --> 01:24:18,080
to keep going up.

2054
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,400
>> I'm sorry for interrupting. Go ahead.

2055
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:22,080
>> I just last comment I would make is the

2056
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:24,239
first time I met Mayor Mel was at the

2057
01:24:24,239 --> 01:24:26,000
League of Cities and Towns and she

2058
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:27,440
wanted to get this fire station

2059
01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:30,800
financed. So, that's been two and a half

2060
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:32,320
years, maybe,

2061
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:35,360
>> three and a half actually. So anyhow,

2062
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:36,800
thank you for the opportunity and we'll

2063
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,600
talk some more about the sales tax bark.

2064
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:41,199
Mayor, just one quick thing. We just had

2065
01:24:41,199 --> 01:24:43,440
a monthly finance report. If you stand

2066
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,239
back and look at say a 25-year finance

2067
01:24:46,239 --> 01:24:48,719
report for the city, I think the city's

2068
01:24:48,719 --> 01:24:51,600
done a phenomenal job. We've had a PI

2069
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,480
bond in around 2002.

2070
01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:57,760
It was refunded in 2020 adding a million

2071
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,960
dollars to construct a filter station

2072
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:03,920
and the pipeline to get CUP water to the

2073
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,239
city. Those are the only bonds we've had

2074
01:25:06,239 --> 01:25:11,040
in 25 years. That's probably Mark works

2075
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:12,560
with a lot of different entities and

2076
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,280
cities. That's probably somewhat unheard

2077
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:19,120
of um to be able to do that. So, we have

2078
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:20,960
worked on cash. We built tons of

2079
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,760
projects. I have a list of them from the

2080
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:27,520
past 25 years. Um,

2081
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,600
>> trying to keep your record going strong.

2082
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:32,239
>> We just can't do it. If we could, we if

2083
01:25:32,239 --> 01:25:33,840
we thought there was a way we could do

2084
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:35,520
it, we would. We wouldn't be coming.

2085
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:37,760
>> I I only see one way to do it different

2086
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:39,520
and that is we got to stop saying yes to

2087
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,400
every other expense. So, that that's the

2088
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,400
only way I see we can do it is and we

2089
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:46,719
say yes to almost everything. That's the

2090
01:25:46,719 --> 01:25:48,480
only way is we've got to I mean park

2091
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:51,440
plans and fire stations and everything

2092
01:25:51,440 --> 01:25:53,360
else under the sun. Then when we have an

2093
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:54,800
emergency or something that's like a

2094
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:56,880
dire need of course we're going to have

2095
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,719
to open up the door for this type of

2096
01:25:58,719 --> 01:25:59,280
stuff

2097
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:01,199
>> which the emergencies are why we have a

2098
01:26:01,199 --> 01:26:03,120
fund balance and why we've try we've

2099
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:04,719
worked really hard to maintain a fund

2100
01:26:04,719 --> 01:26:06,800
balance in each one of our funds. So

2101
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:08,159
>> if we've done that so well why are we

2102
01:26:08,159 --> 01:26:09,600
bonding?

2103
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:11,760
>> Because inflation we can't keep up with

2104
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:12,400
inflation.

2105
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:14,000
>> Okay. I'm I'm just saying I know. Look,

2106
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,400
I'm on your team. I'm on your team. I

2107
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:18,159
I'm trying to I want I want this to be

2108
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:18,880
solved, too.

2109
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:21,920
>> But Andrew, there also I think council

2110
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,639
member was gonna say this. Go ahead.

2111
01:26:24,639 --> 01:26:26,880
>> Well, I say and the other thing is is an

2112
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:29,520
enterprise fund is different. This is um

2113
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,639
this is specifically

2114
01:26:32,639 --> 01:26:35,920
servicing just the PI system. And so

2115
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,560
it's not

2116
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:40,560
it's just a different animal. I think

2117
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:42,000
>> remember when we talked about restricted

2118
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,679
funds as opposed to the general

2119
01:26:43,679 --> 01:26:44,239
enterprise,

2120
01:26:44,239 --> 01:26:45,280
>> right? Yes. Yes.

2121
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:45,840
>> So,

2122
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:47,040
>> well, and he didn't say what I thought

2123
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:48,719
he was going to say. This is a way to

2124
01:26:48,719 --> 01:26:51,440
have the cost shared by the people that

2125
01:26:51,440 --> 01:26:53,120
are going to be benefiting from this,

2126
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:53,679
>> right?

2127
01:26:53,679 --> 01:26:56,159
>> Like, I'm not paying everything today

2128
01:26:56,159 --> 01:26:57,840
for that person that's going to be here

2129
01:26:57,840 --> 01:26:58,800
in 10 years.

2130
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:00,480
>> Right. The last question was for mayor

2131
01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:02,639
and council. Um, there's been several

2132
01:27:02,639 --> 01:27:04,960
residents uh some on the west side or

2133
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:06,480
some on the south kind of by where Brent

2134
01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:08,560
lives that live up on a hill and then

2135
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:10,880
some on the north end of the mid zone

2136
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:14,080
that uh live near Alpine Elementary.

2137
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:16,000
none of this kind of addresses some of

2138
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:17,679
the residents who are asking for water

2139
01:27:17,679 --> 01:27:19,520
fixes. When would be the appropriate

2140
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:20,880
time to bring up some of those?

2141
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,199
>> I actually believe that the the Heritage

2142
01:27:23,199 --> 01:27:25,360
Hills well will alleviate some of those

2143
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,440
issues by for the residents by

2144
01:27:27,440 --> 01:27:29,199
>> taking the pressure off those loans and

2145
01:27:29,199 --> 01:27:30,719
yes so

2146
01:27:30,719 --> 01:27:34,000
>> so within the master plan um the first

2147
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:35,520
thing that's developed is a minimum

2148
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,520
level of service that could be the

2149
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,600
minimum pressure we want to see anywhere

2150
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,719
in our system is X. So all the

2151
01:27:42,719 --> 01:27:44,480
improvements are planned to make sure

2152
01:27:44,480 --> 01:27:47,360
that X pressure is available everywhere

2153
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:50,080
in the city. And so all of these should

2154
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:52,800
help in all the areas that are

2155
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:55,360
deficient. You know, one might be more

2156
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,760
pinpointed to a certain area, but

2157
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,400
overall the plan is to address that

2158
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:01,920
minimum level of service.

2159
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:04,880
>> Okay. I I understand how the well takes

2160
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:06,239
the pressure off the lower zones and

2161
01:28:06,239 --> 01:28:08,159
then that helps them by not taxing them

2162
01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:10,639
so much. the I didn't know that the

2163
01:28:10,639 --> 01:28:13,360
Heritage Hills well was for uh the

2164
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:15,280
Boxelder neighborhood, Box Elder South,

2165
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:17,840
Three Falls subdivision, any future Pine

2166
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:18,800
Valley one.

2167
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:20,719
>> It's not Box Elder.

2168
01:28:20,719 --> 01:28:22,719
>> Those areas are all served by culinary,

2169
01:28:22,719 --> 01:28:24,960
not PI, and this is a PI well.

2170
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:27,199
>> No, I know. Won't this allow for those

2171
01:28:27,199 --> 01:28:29,360
neighborhoods to That's what I have here

2172
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:32,159
in front of me. Won't Won't Won't Won't Won't Won't this Well, the Heritage Hills

2173
01:28:32,159 --> 01:28:35,120
wells primarily uh service PI to the

2174
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:37,679
northern zone? So what happens in a year

2175
01:28:37,679 --> 01:28:39,760
like we're having now and in drought

2176
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:43,600
years um we rely early in the year

2177
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:45,280
especially

2178
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:48,080
uh on water on surface water. If it's

2179
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:49,920
not there then we have to take some

2180
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:53,040
spring water from Grove spring which

2181
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:56,239
right now is taking care of 100% of the

2182
01:28:56,239 --> 01:28:58,400
indoor needs of the city and the

2183
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:01,679
irrigation for those that don't have PI.

2184
01:29:01,679 --> 01:29:05,199
Um, so it could free up some of that to

2185
01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:08,000
help with growth and providing culinary

2186
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,560
water because we wouldn't need the water

2187
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:12,560
from the spring to supplement the

2188
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:14,639
irrigation system.

2189
01:29:14,639 --> 01:29:16,960
>> Okay. Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Any other

2190
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:17,840
future questions? We're going to have

2191
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:19,520
another meeting, right, on the details.

2192
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:20,800
Thanks. This has been really helpful.

2193
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:21,679
Thank you. Okay.

2194
01:29:21,679 --> 01:29:24,000
>> Thank you. Okay. Let's move on to action

2195
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:25,840
items. A, approval of the exterior

2196
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:28,639
changes Alpine Fire Station addition

2197
01:29:28,639 --> 01:29:31,990
remodel.

2198
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:33,920
Thank you, mayor. Um, so I think we're

2199
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:37,280
all really excited for this moment. Uh,

2200
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:39,920
I know that we had some a first round of

2201
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:42,239
re revised design options presented at

2202
01:29:42,239 --> 01:29:45,360
the last meeting on May 26th. Um, and

2203
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:48,080
then the site plan for the fire station

2204
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:49,840
edition remodel was approved that day

2205
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:52,239
with the condition that the exterior

2206
01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:53,840
design be reconfigured through a joint

2207
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:56,480
work session. So, a lot of the council

2208
01:29:56,480 --> 01:29:58,239
members and and planning commission

2209
01:29:58,239 --> 01:29:59,840
members were able to attend that joint

2210
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:02,400
work session on June 3rd, last week to

2211
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:04,560
determine what the exterior exterior

2212
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:07,440
materials would be. And the decision was

2213
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:09,840
made to bring another round of revised

2214
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:12,480
design options to council today to

2215
01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:14,719
determine that exterior design. So, that

2216
01:30:14,719 --> 01:30:17,440
is the purpose of this action item. Um

2217
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:18,960
the staff just recommends that the

2218
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:22,560
council consider and determine the

2219
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,360
exterior design of the fire distation

2220
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,000
addition and remodel based on either the

2221
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:29,600
original design or one of the design

2222
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,480
options presented and any change to the

2223
01:30:32,480 --> 01:30:34,239
original design would be handled through

2224
01:30:34,239 --> 01:30:39,430
a change order.

2225
01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:41,679
With that, I'll pull up the designs that

2226
01:30:41,679 --> 01:30:44,960
were uh put together by our architect. I

2227
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,920
don't know if he's here today.

2228
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,080
>> So, Chad Littlewood is not, but we have

2229
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:52,960
Sierra with us tonight from Babcock

2230
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,840
Design.

2231
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:57,760
>> Awesome.

2232
01:30:57,760 --> 01:30:59,760
So, this is the first revised design.

2233
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:02,080
Um, this has minimal changes from from

2234
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,480
the current design. There's an updated

2235
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:07,280
gabled roof for the main entrance to the

2236
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:09,679
community center. Uh, there's more

2237
01:31:09,679 --> 01:31:12,159
accurate depiction of the existing ephys

2238
01:31:12,159 --> 01:31:15,920
coloring. revised roof, sophet, fascia,

2239
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:19,040
door, and brick colors per the council

2240
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:24,149
meeting.

2241
01:31:24,159 --> 01:31:26,480
Design option two removes all of the

2242
01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:29,360
faux wood, has an updated gable roof for

2243
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:30,800
the main entrance to the community

2244
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:33,600
center, more accur accurate depiction of

2245
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,480
the existing ephus coloring, and then

2246
01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:38,400
the revised roofs off at fascia door and

2247
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:40,000
brick colors as well.

2248
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:41,920
>> Is this one correct?

2249
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:43,520
No, I think it's further down the

2250
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:44,800
packet.

2251
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:46,639
>> It's not the revised ones. It's just

2252
01:31:46,639 --> 01:31:47,120
optional.

2253
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:48,480
>> Further down on the packet because I'm

2254
01:31:48,480 --> 01:31:51,520
looking at mine and it's it's those.

2255
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:52,080
Yeah,

2256
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:53,600
>> thank you. Sorry, those were the design

2257
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:55,440
options on May 26. Okay, these are the

2258
01:31:55,440 --> 01:31:56,880
current ones. Thank you, mayor, for

2259
01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:59,280
that. So, option one is currently

2260
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:01,120
designed. Uh, this would be the least

2261
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:04,719
impactful to schedule and cost. Utilizes

2262
01:32:04,719 --> 01:32:07,840
faux wood, brick, and ephus as primary

2263
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:10,639
exterior exterior material. Sorry, I

2264
01:32:10,639 --> 01:32:12,000
have a bit of a cold today so I can't

2265
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:14,480
talk very well. Uh gabled roofs at

2266
01:32:14,480 --> 01:32:16,320
primary structures with shed roofs at

2267
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:21,030
small structures

2268
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:22,800
and there are four option options in

2269
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:24,719
total. So that was option one. Option

2270
01:32:24,719 --> 01:32:28,000
two is increased brick no faux wood shed

2271
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,120
roof at the community center.

2272
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:32,719
So this would be the second least

2273
01:32:32,719 --> 01:32:35,360
impactful to scheduling cost. It

2274
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:38,000
utilizes increased brick and ephus as

2275
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,880
primary exterior materials. Pre-cast

2276
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:44,880
concrete lentils as accent materials

2277
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:46,400
above the windows as you can see there.

2278
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,000
And then gabled roofs at primary

2279
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:50,080
structures, shed roofs at small

2280
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:55,990
structures.

2281
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:58,800
Option three uh is increased brick, no

2282
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:00,960
faux wood and a gable roof at the

2283
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:03,440
community center. So this would be the

2284
01:33:03,440 --> 01:33:05,120
third least impactful to scheduling

2285
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:09,280
cost. Utilizes increased brick ephus

2286
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:11,040
uh pre-cast concrete lint holes as

2287
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,239
accents gabled roofs and then the shed

2288
01:33:14,239 --> 01:33:16,719
roof at the day room dining and kitchen

2289
01:33:16,719 --> 01:33:18,800
structure.

2290
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:21,760
And then the final one is the most

2291
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:25,520
impactful. The scheduling cost in uh

2292
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:28,560
utilizes increased real wood, brick and

2293
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:31,520
ephus and then gabled roofs as primary

2294
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,520
structures with shed roofs at the small

2295
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:44,470
structures.

2296
01:33:44,480 --> 01:33:46,320
And so yeah, I believe that is it. I

2297
01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:48,080
don't know if there's a revised option

2298
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:49,600
that the council members want to see

2299
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:52,080
again or if the architect would like to

2300
01:33:52,080 --> 01:34:03,510
talk about any of the options provided.

2301
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:05,840
I do have one question between option

2302
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:08,560
one and option two. The bay doors, why

2303
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:12,070
is there a difference?

2304
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:21,110
Wouldn't they be the same? I don't know.

2305
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:22,480
You're talking about the windows. The

2306
01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:24,960
kind of b the windows.

2307
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:26,880
>> Yeah. On the on the bay doors. They're

2308
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:28,719
just Yeah. One has lots of windows and

2309
01:34:28,719 --> 01:34:29,679
one looks like

2310
01:34:29,679 --> 01:34:30,320
>> the longer one.

2311
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,400
>> You scroll up to option one.

2312
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:35,040
>> Caden.

2313
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:46,709
>> Yeah, that's true.

2314
01:34:46,719 --> 01:34:47,360
Sorry.

2315
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:49,040
>> Which one are they going to be? I was

2316
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:51,199
just curious.

2317
01:34:51,199 --> 01:34:53,440
>> They're going to be not this one. The

2318
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:55,120
ones on option two. So that's what

2319
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:55,600
they'll

2320
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:59,430
>> Okay. Thank you.

2321
01:34:59,440 --> 01:35:03,040
» Okay. Are there any other questions?

2322
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:05,520
Okay.

2323
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:12,070
Jessica, do you have a comment?

2324
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:14,320
» Um, just to give a little bit more

2325
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:19,120
background, option two, um, is

2326
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:21,040
incorporating the feedback from planning

2327
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:22,800
commission

2328
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:25,199
that as we work through our gateway

2329
01:35:25,199 --> 01:35:28,800
historic guidelines and criteria that we

2330
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:32,080
want to use um, natural materials. And

2331
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:35,120
so in an effort to do that, as this

2332
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:37,840
building will be here for many, many

2333
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:39,520
years and it's going to be the first

2334
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:42,159
building to come in under our new

2335
01:35:42,159 --> 01:35:44,560
commercial guidelines, we wanted to make

2336
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:47,679
sure that we led by example. So that's

2337
01:35:47,679 --> 01:35:50,159
really the reason that it captures more

2338
01:35:50,159 --> 01:35:52,239
of a historical

2339
01:35:52,239 --> 01:35:54,960
um presence and a historical

2340
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:58,239
architecture vibe using the brick.

2341
01:35:58,239 --> 01:36:00,400
That's all I have to add. Sarah, did you

2342
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:01,440
have anything to

2343
01:36:01,440 --> 01:36:04,000
>> Oh, no. I would just I would just kind

2344
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:06,480
of reiterate what Jessica said. Like I

2345
01:36:06,480 --> 01:36:09,120
did a lot of research on Utah historical

2346
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:12,560
architecture and that confirms that

2347
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:17,280
yeah, a lot of brick and natural natural

2348
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:19,600
surfaces. So,

2349
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:23,360
>> um I just had a clarification. Um, in

2350
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:27,199
our original meeting we talked about

2351
01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:29,120
dictating to some degree the level of

2352
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:31,679
detail like the trim and this doesn't

2353
01:36:31,679 --> 01:36:33,679
list that. So if it's not in the motion,

2354
01:36:33,679 --> 01:36:36,400
are we going to let the design team

2355
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:38,639
because uh Chad in our we had a meeting

2356
01:36:38,639 --> 01:36:40,400
with the planning commission combined

2357
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:42,800
and architects. He said that often they

2358
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:44,800
get samples as they go along and so

2359
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:47,760
those decisions are made in real time.

2360
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,400
Um, is that still our going to be our

2361
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,119
process council? We're going to let the

2362
01:36:53,119 --> 01:36:55,360
design team make those decisions like

2363
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:58,000
normal and not be overly

2364
01:36:58,000 --> 01:36:59,360
prescriptive in my mind.

2365
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:01,760
>> Yeah. No, I think the design I think you

2366
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:03,679
know we've hired the design team and

2367
01:37:03,679 --> 01:37:04,560
they're going to be moving.

2368
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:05,600
>> Yeah. I just noticed they didn't list

2369
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:06,880
that in the details. So, we're going to

2370
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:09,119
just do that the normal way. Okay.

2371
01:37:09,119 --> 01:37:11,280
>> We I wasn't because I wasn't there. We

2372
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:12,960
explained that a little bit more.

2373
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:14,800
>> Can you explain that process for us,

2374
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:16,560
please? because I'm just regurgitating

2375
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:17,520
my interpretation.

2376
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:19,119
>> I wasn't there for that particular

2377
01:37:19,119 --> 01:37:20,719
meeting to discuss but

2378
01:37:20,719 --> 01:37:22,000
>> is Chad Were you there Chad?

2379
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:26,390
>> You there? Okay.

2380
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:30,239
» Good evening. So um there is a submitt

2381
01:37:30,239 --> 01:37:34,080
process where so well first of all it is

2382
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:35,760
in the design. The details of all the

2383
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:37,679
trim, the colors and everything is in

2384
01:37:37,679 --> 01:37:40,000
the design. And then in submittal

2385
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:41,679
process, what the other Chad was talking

2386
01:37:41,679 --> 01:37:43,760
about is that they'll give an actual

2387
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:46,000
sample and say, "Does this match the

2388
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:48,080
design? Do you approve this?"

2389
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:49,040
>> Okay. So that's

2390
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:51,280
>> So there won't be any changes to other

2391
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:53,679
than what we talked about here. No other

2392
01:37:53,679 --> 01:37:55,360
changes to what's in the design

2393
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:58,320
currently. So if there are

2394
01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:01,520
>> Can you go back to the one Kaden?

2395
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:04,000
That's

2396
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:05,600
>> option one. Is that what you're talking?

2397
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:08,000
>> Okay. Okay. Thank you.

2398
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,080
All right. That makes sense. That's what

2399
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:14,880
he meant. Just like he can put gray, but

2400
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:17,440
gray could be variable depending on

2401
01:38:17,440 --> 01:38:19,040
who's the vendor.

2402
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:19,360
>> That's right.

2403
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,600
>> Or he could put black. That's pretty

2404
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:22,080
standard.

2405
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:23,679
>> They'll even put in the plans. They have

2406
01:38:23,679 --> 01:38:25,360
the manufacturer.

2407
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:26,159
>> Oh, okay.

2408
01:38:26,159 --> 01:38:28,320
>> And the color. So, all of that is

2409
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:30,159
detailed in the plans.

2410
01:38:30,159 --> 01:38:30,639
>> Okay.

2411
01:38:30,639 --> 01:38:33,360
>> And then the contractor could propose

2412
01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:35,119
substitutions.

2413
01:38:35,119 --> 01:38:36,880
>> Okay. And then the architect can say

2414
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:38,880
yes, we accept that or no, we do not.

2415
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:40,159
>> I think that's what he was talking about

2416
01:38:40,159 --> 01:38:43,679
is we can't he because

2417
01:38:43,679 --> 01:38:45,360
he you just described it perfectly.

2418
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:47,679
Yeah, there's still a tiny variation but

2419
01:38:47,679 --> 01:38:49,600
not substantial from what we're seeing.

2420
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:50,239
And

2421
01:38:50,239 --> 01:38:51,119
>> yeah,

2422
01:38:51,119 --> 01:38:54,639
>> the pictures are reflective of what will

2423
01:38:54,639 --> 01:38:57,199
be in the design guide. Correct. So what

2424
01:38:57,199 --> 01:38:59,440
we're looking at and deciding on today

2425
01:38:59,440 --> 01:39:01,840
is going to be in that. Okay.

2426
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:02,400
>> Yes.

2427
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:04,239
>> Okay. Andrew, did you have any

2428
01:39:04,239 --> 01:39:05,440
questions?

2429
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:06,800
>> Uh, are we kind of going through and

2430
01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:08,719
sharing thoughts about questions?

2431
01:39:08,719 --> 01:39:09,360
>> It's your turn.

2432
01:39:09,360 --> 01:39:10,960
>> No, I know. I just Is this the end? And

2433
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:12,000
then people are going to start making

2434
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:12,719
motions.

2435
01:39:12,719 --> 01:39:13,119
>> Yep.

2436
01:39:13,119 --> 01:39:14,800
>> Well, and then we'll have a comment.

2437
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:17,119
There's um there was a resident that

2438
01:39:17,119 --> 01:39:18,400
reached out and said he wanted to make a

2439
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:18,800
comment.

2440
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:22,080
>> Oh, great. That's wonderful. Um, couple

2441
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:25,040
things. Um, has there Oh, I see some

2442
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:27,600
fantastic folks in the audience tonight.

2443
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:31,920
Uh, has there been any

2444
01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:34,560
compromise or union on one of these

2445
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:38,320
between the donor, the council, those

2446
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:40,800
who have basically to back it up,

2447
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:43,440
there's been some but this is a terrible

2448
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:45,040
issue. This has been this has ripped me

2449
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:46,880
apart the last week. People are so

2450
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:49,840
passionate about it. Um, I'm wondering,

2451
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:51,520
has the planning commission, has some of

2452
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:53,520
the city council, has the donor come to

2453
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:57,360
any uh one of these options that they

2454
01:39:57,360 --> 01:39:59,520
all feel comfortable with? And

2455
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:00,880
>> I guess that's why we're going to vote.

2456
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:02,880
>> Well, I know, but I would really like to

2457
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:07,760
vote. My dream my dream is that there is

2458
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:09,520
a coming together between those who have

2459
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:11,280
the strong opinions, and I didn't know

2460
01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:12,880
at what stage we're at. Has there been

2461
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:15,040
an option? So Andrew, my understanding

2462
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:17,440
is there have been discussions, but I

2463
01:40:17,440 --> 01:40:18,800
think it's gonna all we're playing it

2464
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:19,280
out right now.

2465
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:20,960
>> No one has consolidated on one.

2466
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:22,480
>> No. So do you have

2467
01:40:22,480 --> 01:40:23,760
>> that makes my life terrible.

2468
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:25,119
>> Okay. Do you have any other questions

2469
01:40:25,119 --> 01:40:26,000
other than that?

2470
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:28,400
>> Uh yeah.

2471
01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:30,880
Um

2472
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:32,239
every single one of the designs has

2473
01:40:32,239 --> 01:40:34,000
white trim.

2474
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:37,440
Is that by design or is that left still

2475
01:40:37,440 --> 01:40:38,880
to interpretation?

2476
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:40,639
>> No, that's intentional. It kind of plays

2477
01:40:40,639 --> 01:40:42,560
off the existing that's there already

2478
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:44,000
with the fire station.

2479
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:46,400
>> Okay. Um

2480
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:48,880
>> actually design one has black trim over

2481
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:50,480
the shed roofs.

2482
01:40:50,480 --> 01:40:52,159
>> If you look a little closer, you'll see

2483
01:40:52,159 --> 01:40:54,960
the the edges and the um

2484
01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:56,560
>> Okay. I know that was one

2485
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:57,920
>> I did notice. Thank you.

2486
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,080
>> Well, and I think original the original

2487
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:02,560
plans had everything be black and I

2488
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:04,159
believe Sarah and Jessica asked for

2489
01:41:04,159 --> 01:41:05,520
white because they thought that was more

2490
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:07,040
historical. That's what I

2491
01:41:07,040 --> 01:41:09,520
>> It's not a thought. It's just an actual

2492
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:11,920
the characteristics of Utah historic are

2493
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:13,040
that. So,

2494
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:14,800
>> but our planning commission specifically

2495
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:16,719
did say black. That's why I was sort of

2496
01:41:16,719 --> 01:41:19,440
wondering, have we left it out? And

2497
01:41:19,440 --> 01:41:21,199
you're telling me what we're seeing is

2498
01:41:21,199 --> 01:41:22,320
what is.

2499
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:23,199
>> Yeah,

2500
01:41:23,199 --> 01:41:25,119
>> correct. And those black trim areas,

2501
01:41:25,119 --> 01:41:26,639
that is actually where we have standing

2502
01:41:26,639 --> 01:41:28,480
seam roof. So, it's a different roofing

2503
01:41:28,480 --> 01:41:30,159
material. The rest is going to be the

2504
01:41:30,159 --> 01:41:32,000
asphalt. And it does have a different

2505
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:33,520
trim with it.

2506
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,280
>> Okay. I mean, I like white personally,

2507
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:38,320
but yeah. Um, couple questions. I I and

2508
01:41:38,320 --> 01:41:40,880
comments uh and I've been really

2509
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:43,760
searching the other uh architectures

2510
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:46,719
around this does have brick. We have a

2511
01:41:46,719 --> 01:41:48,560
lot of bricks or or the the top one they

2512
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:52,159
all have brick. They all have some uh

2513
01:41:52,159 --> 01:41:53,920
stucco which this building is completely

2514
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:59,600
stucco. So it does marry uh marry the um

2515
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:02,800
uh different neighboring uh uh

2516
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:04,880
structures. Uh my question is which one

2517
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:07,199
is the one that adds the least amount of

2518
01:42:07,199 --> 01:42:08,880
cost?

2519
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:11,360
>> That's option one. The one with the the

2520
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:15,040
faux wood. That one. Yes.

2521
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:19,679
>> How much more of cost is option two? And is that known? Maybe it's an

2522
01:42:19,679 --> 01:42:20,560
unknown.

2523
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:24,560
>> So um as I think there's even one sheet

2524
01:42:24,560 --> 01:42:26,080
in there that's been discussed before

2525
01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:27,679
that the break is actually a much

2526
01:42:27,679 --> 01:42:30,560
cheaper material than that faux wood.

2527
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:33,440
What is unknown and following up from

2528
01:42:33,440 --> 01:42:35,840
the planning commission council joint

2529
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:40,480
meeting uh was to get structural input

2530
01:42:40,480 --> 01:42:43,199
in the original design. We left the

2531
01:42:43,199 --> 01:42:45,360
apparatus bays as is. We didn't we're

2532
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:46,880
not going to touch them change anything

2533
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:49,199
structurally. So they have not assessed

2534
01:42:49,199 --> 01:42:51,520
any of the structure of the bays

2535
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:53,840
themselves

2536
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:56,400
with the added brick on there. they do

2537
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:59,840
need to go rerun their or run lateral

2538
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,480
loads. Uh the concern is with putting

2539
01:43:02,480 --> 01:43:04,000
that much weight on there when it comes

2540
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,560
to seismic, when it comes to wind, how

2541
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:08,960
the building will react laterally with

2542
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:13,040
that additional weight. Um

2543
01:43:13,040 --> 01:43:15,199
they have not yet run that calculation.

2544
01:43:15,199 --> 01:43:16,719
They're waiting for direction from

2545
01:43:16,719 --> 01:43:19,760
tonight, but it

2546
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:22,239
we're still hopeful that it would be the

2547
01:43:22,239 --> 01:43:25,679
cost of any additional structure

2548
01:43:25,679 --> 01:43:27,760
could be offset from the savings in the

2549
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:30,560
faux wood, but at this point, honestly,

2550
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:33,199
it's unknown. Um, they did recommend, we

2551
01:43:33,199 --> 01:43:35,040
talked about the full brick, the 3 and

2552
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:38,639
58 brick versus the thin 916.

2553
01:43:38,639 --> 01:43:41,360
He said definitely uh would recommend

2554
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:43,760
the 9/116 the thin brick to lessen the

2555
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:47,199
weight on that building. Um

2556
01:43:47,199 --> 01:43:49,199
but with being existing building and us

2557
01:43:49,199 --> 01:43:51,040
not doing anything to the foundation of

2558
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:53,360
the bays themselves,

2559
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:56,639
it could become more of an issue if we

2560
01:43:56,639 --> 01:43:58,560
do need to structurally upgrade that

2561
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:02,320
itself. Um

2562
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:04,960
he said up to five feet in height, which

2563
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:07,119
was in the design. We had that break

2564
01:44:07,119 --> 01:44:08,800
that went up to 5T. said that's not an

2565
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,119
issue when it gets higher than that. So

2566
01:44:11,119 --> 01:44:13,119
there may have to be a conversation of

2567
01:44:13,119 --> 01:44:15,440
okay, how high can we go with it without

2568
01:44:15,440 --> 01:44:18,320
it being an additional structural cost.

2569
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:20,719
So that's to be determined over the next

2570
01:44:20,719 --> 01:44:23,520
couple weeks.

2571
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:25,119
>> Okay. Did you have any other questions

2572
01:44:25,119 --> 01:44:26,080
or

2573
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:30,870
>> uh just a last comment? Um

2574
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:33,760
have you there's two things. Have you

2575
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:35,199
found something you feel comfortable

2576
01:44:35,199 --> 01:44:38,239
with that uh the Watkins family also

2577
01:44:38,239 --> 01:44:40,560
feels comfortable with that you can

2578
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,199
verbalize or articulate before emotions

2579
01:44:43,199 --> 01:44:43,840
are made?

2580
01:44:43,840 --> 01:44:48,719
>> Um I have been in contact with Dawn and

2581
01:44:48,719 --> 01:44:51,280
we've shared our thoughts and feelings

2582
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:53,920
on this and I don't know that we have

2583
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,560
come to a a consensus. I know how he

2584
01:44:56,560 --> 01:45:01,760
feels and his desire and um but no we

2585
01:45:01,760 --> 01:45:03,760
haven't really

2586
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:05,199
reached consensus.

2587
01:45:05,199 --> 01:45:06,639
>> Okay. The last comment here

2588
01:45:06,639 --> 01:45:11,199
>> the last comment is uh um I did really

2589
01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:14,000
struggle with this um given your great

2590
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:15,840
reasoning behind everything you're doing

2591
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:17,520
and also the great reasoning of other

2592
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:21,920
folks. I I went to the um I went to uh

2593
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:23,760
the neighbor today who's going to look

2594
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:25,520
at this every day of their lives. They

2595
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,760
live right across the street from it.

2596
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:29,760
And uh I wanted to survey what they

2597
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:31,760
would say.

2598
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:33,600
This will not be very favorable

2599
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:36,800
information, but um yes, he's lived

2600
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:38,080
there for a while. Yes, he wants to keep

2601
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:39,520
his home for his kids. Yes, he'll be

2602
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:40,960
looking at what we're looking at every

2603
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:44,800
day. I asked him that I need help on

2604
01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:48,239
what he wants to look at every day.

2605
01:45:48,239 --> 01:45:51,520
And uh he said he didn't care. And I

2606
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:54,239
said, "I need you to care because there

2607
01:45:54,239 --> 01:45:56,880
are people on opposite tracks of this."

2608
01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:59,360
He looked at every single one of them.

2609
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:02,560
And he said he wanted number one. And he

2610
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:05,199
wanted faux wood.

2611
01:46:05,199 --> 01:46:07,520
I said, "Why?"

2612
01:46:07,520 --> 01:46:10,159
He said, "Because it's easy to take care

2613
01:46:10,159 --> 01:46:13,040
of and it will last long." I said, "What

2614
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:15,520
about the brick?" He says, "It's fine,

2615
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:18,480
but I like number one." I know that is

2616
01:46:18,480 --> 01:46:19,920
not what you want to hear.

2617
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:23,040
>> Oh, no. I I respect whatever you decide.

2618
01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:24,560
You have your reasoning. So,

2619
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:26,320
>> but none of us live next to this. And

2620
01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:29,760
this guy, his name's uh Mr. Peterson. He

2621
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:31,360
lives next to it. He's going to live by

2622
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,040
it his whole life. He's going to look at

2623
01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:36,560
it every time he leaves. I did not push

2624
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:38,719
one way or another.

2625
01:46:38,719 --> 01:46:40,320
>> Anyways, I just wanted to pass that on

2626
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:41,600
that what you said.

2627
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:43,119
>> I appreciate that. I think in the long

2628
01:46:43,119 --> 01:46:45,119
run, it's just each of us are trying to

2629
01:46:45,119 --> 01:46:47,280
do what we feel like is best

2630
01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:49,280
>> for this for the city, for the res.

2631
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:50,719
>> Thank you. But Brent, do you have any

2632
01:46:50,719 --> 01:46:54,149
comments?

2633
01:46:54,159 --> 01:46:55,920
» No, nothing more than what I shared last

2634
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:58,159
time. I will say that the donor did

2635
01:46:58,159 --> 01:47:00,400
express concerns with a change to just a

2636
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:03,280
plain old stucco. And I I agree with

2637
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:06,159
those comments because that was really

2638
01:47:06,159 --> 01:47:08,800
blah. and and talking to some people who

2639
01:47:08,800 --> 01:47:10,560
are more

2640
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:13,440
um professional at this than I um I

2641
01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:18,639
think the brick looks really nice and I like that option two is kind of a

2642
01:47:18,639 --> 01:47:21,840
compromise. It's the least impactful to

2643
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:23,199
the schedule and cost which is I think

2644
01:47:23,199 --> 01:47:24,400
is very important. I think we need to

2645
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:26,000
move forward with this. It's been going

2646
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:29,280
on for a long long time

2647
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:31,920
and I really respect and appreciate the

2648
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:33,520
work of the planning commission and

2649
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:35,840
providing their input not only on this

2650
01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:37,679
project but on the future of what our

2651
01:47:37,679 --> 01:47:40,159
main street business commercial zone is

2652
01:47:40,159 --> 01:47:42,719
going to be and I think this is setting

2653
01:47:42,719 --> 01:47:44,480
an example for what we want the future

2654
01:47:44,480 --> 01:47:47,920
to look like. Um so that's it.

2655
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:49,840
>> I'd like to make a motion. Are you

2656
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:50,239
ready?

2657
01:47:50,239 --> 01:47:51,920
>> I was going to wait. I was going to have

2658
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:53,679
some comments. There was a

2659
01:47:53,679 --> 01:47:54,960
>> Oh, I forgot. Yes.

2660
01:47:54,960 --> 01:47:55,840
>> Okay.

2661
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:56,880
>> Thank you so much. If you guys want to

2662
01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:59,679
take a seat, um Mr. Watkins, if you

2663
01:47:59,679 --> 01:48:00,880
wanted to make your comment, if you

2664
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:02,400
could state your name and the street

2665
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:04,000
that you live on.

2666
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:07,280
>> Uh Don Watkins. I live on 105

2667
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:09,040
>> microphone.

2668
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:12,719
>> Just one m one of not or both.

2669
01:48:12,719 --> 01:48:13,360
>> Both.

2670
01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:15,119
>> And I want to start out by just thanking

2671
01:48:15,119 --> 01:48:17,440
you for your service.

2672
01:48:17,440 --> 01:48:18,880
>> Generally, including

2673
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:20,560
>> Can you turn on that mic

2674
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:21,679
>> on the back of it?

2675
01:48:21,679 --> 01:48:22,400
>> How about this one?

2676
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:22,639
>> Yes.

2677
01:48:22,639 --> 01:48:24,480
>> Does that one work? Yeah.

2678
01:48:24,480 --> 01:48:27,840
>> And I am also um love our city

2679
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:30,239
administrator. I appreciate again each

2680
01:48:30,239 --> 01:48:34,400
of you. I appreciate our chief uh police

2681
01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:37,440
chief tonight. I actually have a

2682
01:48:37,440 --> 01:48:39,199
wonderful thing with the policeman out

2683
01:48:39,199 --> 01:48:42,239
on Grove Drive. I really think the work

2684
01:48:42,239 --> 01:48:44,400
that's been done on Main Street has had

2685
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:49,280
an effect. And I think the uh effect of

2686
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:51,840
Grove Drive just a few times with a few

2687
01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:54,400
tickets will go a long way. So I

2688
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:56,560
appreciate that. If if you'll bear with

2689
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:58,560
me, I I already feel like I've lost the

2690
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:00,960
battle. And you know what? That's okay.

2691
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:03,199
There's a few battles I've won and a lot

2692
01:49:03,199 --> 01:49:05,440
of it's because of you guys. So I'm

2693
01:49:05,440 --> 01:49:08,560
grateful for that. I I think there's a

2694
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:10,000
couple things I hope you'll ponder

2695
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:12,080
about. And by the way, I haven't met

2696
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:15,119
Chrissy. Nice to meet you and appreciate

2697
01:49:15,119 --> 01:49:16,800
your service. And of course, I met

2698
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:19,679
Brent. A couple things. I think I do

2699
01:49:19,679 --> 01:49:22,480
have a reason to give a little

2700
01:49:22,480 --> 01:49:25,360
background. I was on the council when we

2701
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:28,320
decided to to save this building and

2702
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:31,760
keep it historical to some degree and I

2703
01:49:31,760 --> 01:49:34,560
oversaw it with Shane the construction

2704
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:38,000
and it was a big deal to me. Uh it was

2705
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:40,960
important and uh when I go into most

2706
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:42,960
communities including Park City, I'll

2707
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:45,840
find a few uh original buildings. I see

2708
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:47,520
a lot of fire stations that are very

2709
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:52,480
contemporary now. And uh but uh I I have

2710
01:49:52,480 --> 01:49:54,960
a major investment and interest in

2711
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:57,280
preservation. I think I have a history

2712
01:49:57,280 --> 01:50:01,440
of that in the environment and uh I

2713
01:50:01,440 --> 01:50:03,040
think that goes quite a ways. I think

2714
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:06,080
it's also supported by my own life, 40

2715
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:09,360
years in a farm home. And uh we do go

2716
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:11,280
south to teach a little bit, but we come

2717
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:13,520
back and this is where we hope to die. I

2718
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:16,639
have a horse buried somewhere and uh you

2719
01:50:16,639 --> 01:50:19,920
can bury me there by him. Shane had

2720
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:23,669
something to do with it.

2721
01:50:23,679 --> 01:50:26,560
Uh we have old barns that we've tried to

2722
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:29,600
make look old that are looking old. So

2723
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:32,560
I'm all about preservation.

2724
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:34,960
I have absolutely

2725
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:38,880
no problem with our

2726
01:50:38,880 --> 01:50:42,480
well-designed commercial and uh office

2727
01:50:42,480 --> 01:50:44,800
buildings that have been built. We

2728
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:47,199
couldn't control them. I'll be straight

2729
01:50:47,199 --> 01:50:48,639
I'll be straightforward because I'm

2730
01:50:48,639 --> 01:50:50,639
going to leave and I'm Peggy and I said

2731
01:50:50,639 --> 01:50:52,800
we're not going to get upset. We're

2732
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:54,800
going to be very disappointed with what

2733
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:56,159
happens because we don't think it's what

2734
01:50:56,159 --> 01:50:58,639
the community wants. We think they want

2735
01:50:58,639 --> 01:51:01,119
what I'll tell about. But all these

2736
01:51:01,119 --> 01:51:02,320
buildings that are built, I think

2737
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:04,880
they're great. I think they're terrific.

2738
01:51:04,880 --> 01:51:07,360
I think all the new homes and the old

2739
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:09,360
homes are all terrific. I love the

2740
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:12,080
variety. I think they're great. Yeah. Do

2741
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:14,080
I sometimes complain about a few things

2742
01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:15,679
up on the hill? Yeah. But then I look at

2743
01:51:15,679 --> 01:51:17,040
the mountains and I look at the people

2744
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:19,520
and I go, "Wow, what a place. What a

2745
01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:21,040
blessing." And that's why my wife says,

2746
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:23,440
"Hey, at the end of the day,

2747
01:51:23,440 --> 01:51:25,600
we feel very disappointed and pretty

2748
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:27,520
hurt."

2749
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:30,480
But that's part of politics. That's part

2750
01:51:30,480 --> 01:51:36,080
of life. So, a about six months ago, we were fortunate. We've been poor and

2751
01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:38,400
we've been okay and we do a lot of good

2752
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:41,440
projects in Africa. And about six months

2753
01:51:41,440 --> 01:51:42,960
ago, the mayor came to me and said,

2754
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:45,920
"Hey, we'd like a a senior center." And

2755
01:51:45,920 --> 01:51:47,679
I said to Peg, I said, "You know what?

2756
01:51:47,679 --> 01:51:49,840
We're we're blessed with other people to

2757
01:51:49,840 --> 01:51:53,040
build hospitals and to do other things.

2758
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:54,960
I need to do something for the seniors

2759
01:51:54,960 --> 01:51:57,520
of this town. Now, what's funny is I

2760
01:51:57,520 --> 01:52:00,000
went to Sher Borne and I would hope that

2761
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:02,400
you would share I really hope you would

2762
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:05,119
as integrity share what Sher Borne told

2763
01:52:05,119 --> 01:52:07,679
you today. I went over to Sher Borne's

2764
01:52:07,679 --> 01:52:10,159
house. She was born here. Do you all you

2765
01:52:10,159 --> 01:52:12,880
know Sherry Borne? Very successful

2766
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:16,239
realtor. She had some strong words for

2767
01:52:16,239 --> 01:52:19,280
opinions for Sarah.

2768
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:21,280
Six months ago, I was shown what the

2769
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:23,920
building would look like. My number one

2770
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:26,560
priority was senior center and now a

2771
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:29,280
community center, which is fine. At the

2772
01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:31,360
end of the day, that's what we decided

2773
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:33,040
to take money away from some of our

2774
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:35,520
others and put here. I was shown what

2775
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:37,920
the building would look like. Thought it

2776
01:52:37,920 --> 01:52:40,400
was terrific. I thought your people did

2777
01:52:40,400 --> 01:52:42,800
the job they were supposed to do. made

2778
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:45,520
it transitional what my community

2779
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:48,400
absolutely would absolutely want and

2780
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,960
love if you put it out go ahead and put

2781
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:54,400
it out for a vote and and I'm confident

2782
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:57,679
of what what it'll be faux wood. So

2783
01:52:57,679 --> 01:52:59,840
that's what in three or four days before

2784
01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:02,880
we go to the digging I hear there's

2785
01:53:02,880 --> 01:53:06,000
going to be another potential change.

2786
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:09,119
So, I talked to Sarah. She said, "Yeah,

2787
01:53:09,119 --> 01:53:11,760
I'm we're feeling this way."

2788
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:14,960
And it's the process for me. It's the

2789
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:17,199
process. If you didn't like what you

2790
01:53:17,199 --> 01:53:19,520
want, let another architect, this is a

2791
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:22,560
$5 million deal, let them provide it.

2792
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:25,520
But for me, I think it's naive of for me

2793
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:28,719
to design it or for you to play with it.

2794
01:53:28,719 --> 01:53:30,880
In my opinion, I'm just being outspoken.

2795
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:33,760
Forgive me. It it was quite so then I

2796
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:37,360
went on my way to ask

2797
01:53:37,360 --> 01:53:40,320
not that many maybe 50. They go I love

2798
01:53:40,320 --> 01:53:44,239
that. I love that. Did I buy a s? Sure I

2799
01:53:44,239 --> 01:53:46,800
did. I said doesn't that look beautiful?

2800
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:48,960
I love that.

2801
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:51,199
I don't like Sarah goes. How about this?

2802
01:53:51,199 --> 01:53:53,040
How about that? Go. No, you don't you

2803
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:56,000
don't do that to an art piece. You don't

2804
01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:01,119
peacemail it. and especially who are we to peacemail it in my

2805
01:54:01,119 --> 01:54:04,560
opinion. So we went on a little trip.

2806
01:54:04,560 --> 01:54:06,320
All my family was there and they were

2807
01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:09,199
upset about something and I said, "What

2808
01:54:09,199 --> 01:54:10,960
are you upset about?" She goes, "They

2809
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:12,880
go, you've never put your name on

2810
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:14,800
anything yet in this town. What are you

2811
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:16,320
doing?" I go, "My name's not going to be

2812
01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:20,639
on this building." I said, "And then I

2813
01:54:20,639 --> 01:54:22,480
said, but I think they're going to maybe

2814
01:54:22,480 --> 01:54:25,440
change it." And one of them who's very

2815
01:54:25,440 --> 01:54:27,440
kind and very good said take your money

2816
01:54:27,440 --> 01:54:31,360
back. You got baited and switched.

2817
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:33,040
I'm not going to do that. Peggy aren't

2818
01:54:33,040 --> 01:54:34,159
going to do that because we want the

2819
01:54:34,159 --> 01:54:36,159
senior center.

2820
01:54:36,159 --> 01:54:38,800
But at the end of the day, I'm going to

2821
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:40,960
go past that building and I'm going to

2822
01:54:40,960 --> 01:54:43,119
go with the brick. I'm going to go it's

2823
01:54:43,119 --> 01:54:45,679
fine and everybody's going to say it's

2824
01:54:45,679 --> 01:54:49,360
fine. whoever sees it.

2825
01:54:49,360 --> 01:54:52,080
And not very many people in my opinion

2826
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,440
are going to go, "Wow." In my opinion,

2827
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:59,199
number one is, "Wow." Now, last thing,

2828
01:54:59,199 --> 01:55:01,199
don't get me offended by this. I've been

2829
01:55:01,199 --> 01:55:03,920
through what you've been through, but

2830
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:05,440
I'm hearing about the planning

2831
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:08,639
commission has a design plan and that

2832
01:55:08,639 --> 01:55:11,199
they've approved. Do any of you know how

2833
01:55:11,199 --> 01:55:13,599
many people were at that those those uh

2834
01:55:13,599 --> 01:55:18,390
public hearings?

2835
01:55:18,400 --> 01:55:21,119
I can tell you just because I'm a been a

2836
01:55:21,119 --> 01:55:25,280
mayor and a city councilman, very few.

2837
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:28,000
I believe Fauxwood

2838
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:30,560
is something that is not going to it's

2839
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:33,199
not it'll be changed soon.

2840
01:55:33,199 --> 01:55:34,800
as the community

2841
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:36,639
knows you're you're saying downtown's

2842
01:55:36,639 --> 01:55:39,360
got to look a certain way. It's history.

2843
01:55:39,360 --> 01:55:41,599
We're past that. You're not going to

2844
01:55:41,599 --> 01:55:43,679
dictate to the few lots that are left

2845
01:55:43,679 --> 01:55:45,599
exactly what you're going to do. We

2846
01:55:45,599 --> 01:55:48,960
tried. Didn't work.

2847
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:51,920
So, my final comment, and I'm going to

2848
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:54,800
be rude and leave and say, "I love you

2849
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:59,440
guys. I do. I love this town. If I don't

2850
01:55:59,440 --> 01:56:02,800
get what I want, that's life. And I'll

2851
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:04,960
go forward." I think it's a little bit

2852
01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:07,599
disappointing, very disappointing to

2853
01:56:07,599 --> 01:56:10,480
provide something for us to invest in.

2854
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:12,719
that I think the community wants and

2855
01:56:12,719 --> 01:56:14,480
then the last minute go back into more

2856
01:56:14,480 --> 01:56:17,440
discussions and really in my opinion

2857
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:20,639
disrespect the artist the architecture

2858
01:56:20,639 --> 01:56:22,719
when I do something I've got a lot of

2859
01:56:22,719 --> 01:56:24,960
buildings different things when I want

2860
01:56:24,960 --> 01:56:26,880
it changed and I don't like it I don't

2861
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:28,880
change it I go back and get another

2862
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:31,520
opinion Lord bless you thank you for

2863
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:34,080
your service appreciate it I'll probably

2864
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:35,520
stay a few minutes and then I'll be on

2865
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:35,920
my way

2866
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:39,679
>> okay thank you can I just address um his

2867
01:56:39,679 --> 01:56:41,280
comment. Um, oh,

2868
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:42,800
>> I'm sorry.

2869
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:45,280
>> Um, as many of you know, and Jessica

2870
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:46,880
helped me tremendously. State your name.

2871
01:56:46,880 --> 01:56:51,040
>> Oh, sorry. Tom Watkins, 734 Summit Way.

2872
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:54,400
>> We're very involved in a road issue.

2873
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:56,080
And and as part of that, I had to go out

2874
01:56:56,080 --> 01:56:58,480
and raise a lot of money to help the

2875
01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:02,159
citizens put together an attorney.

2876
01:57:02,159 --> 01:57:06,320
And uh what would have happened if I'd

2877
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:08,320
have gone to those citizens that put

2878
01:57:08,320 --> 01:57:10,480
forth tens of thousands of dollars,

2879
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:13,520
still some in account right now, and

2880
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:14,639
said, "Never mind. I'm going to do it

2881
01:57:14,639 --> 01:57:16,880
differently.

2882
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:19,119
I'm going to take your money, but I'm

2883
01:57:19,119 --> 01:57:21,679
going to do it my way." I appreciate

2884
01:57:21,679 --> 01:57:23,520
Andrew's comments a couple weeks ago

2885
01:57:23,520 --> 01:57:25,360
when he commented about he'd canvased

2886
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:28,159
around and got some input and design and

2887
01:57:28,159 --> 01:57:31,040
all of that. And I think we've all heard

2888
01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:33,199
the same thing. Number one is by far the

2889
01:57:33,199 --> 01:57:34,880
best option, what was originally done.

2890
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:37,679
But my point to you is how are you a

2891
01:57:37,679 --> 01:57:41,360
council members going to go to other

2892
01:57:41,360 --> 01:57:43,360
members of the community? We have a lot

2893
01:57:43,360 --> 01:57:45,599
of money here in the city and ask for

2894
01:57:45,599 --> 01:57:47,280
money

2895
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:48,960
when they're not sure you're going to do

2896
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:51,920
what you said you're going to do.

2897
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:55,360
Okay? you went to a citizen as I did,

2898
01:57:55,360 --> 01:57:57,840
went to many citizens, gained money to

2899
01:57:57,840 --> 01:58:02,000
stop a road to coming into Alpine,

2900
01:58:02,000 --> 01:58:03,760
and if I went back to them and said,

2901
01:58:03,760 --> 01:58:04,880
"I'm going to do something different

2902
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:06,639
with your money." That's my only

2903
01:58:06,639 --> 01:58:07,599
comment.

2904
01:58:07,599 --> 01:58:09,280
>> Thank you. Did you say you wanted to

2905
01:58:09,280 --> 01:58:09,679
address?

2906
01:58:09,679 --> 01:58:12,159
>> Um, just to Don's point, I um Sher

2907
01:58:12,159 --> 01:58:15,440
Bourne did call me and she expressed um

2908
01:58:15,440 --> 01:58:17,760
her preference for option one and she is

2909
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:19,679
a realtor, you know, she sells homes.

2910
01:58:19,679 --> 01:58:21,679
So, I did take into consideration what

2911
01:58:21,679 --> 01:58:24,880
she had said. I also, to be fair,

2912
01:58:24,880 --> 01:58:28,000
reached out to multiple residents to

2913
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:30,000
also kind of gauge their interest as

2914
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:32,880
well. Um,

2915
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:35,119
I I still feel like the function of the

2916
01:58:35,119 --> 01:58:39,360
building is is is intact.

2917
01:58:39,360 --> 01:58:43,760
And so even though maybe for me the

2918
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:47,119
design my preference moving forward for

2919
01:58:47,119 --> 01:58:48,880
the Alpine City just in full

2920
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:52,400
transparency might be different. Um, I

2921
01:58:52,400 --> 01:58:55,440
feel like I'm doing what is I feel like

2922
01:58:55,440 --> 01:58:59,040
is best for the city moving forward. And

2923
01:58:59,040 --> 01:59:01,840
so I I I love the Watkins. I respect

2924
01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:03,520
them. We've known them for a lot of

2925
01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:06,800
years. And I don't mean any disrespect

2926
01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:10,639
if I if I see differently on this on

2927
01:59:10,639 --> 01:59:14,560
this particular item. It's it's not it

2928
01:59:14,560 --> 01:59:16,239
please don't take it as a sign of my

2929
01:59:16,239 --> 01:59:19,360
disrespect or or love for them and their

2930
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:22,080
or ungrat

2931
01:59:22,080 --> 01:59:24,800
that is not my intent at all.

2932
01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:25,119
>> So

2933
01:59:25,119 --> 01:59:26,320
>> okay I'd like to make a motion

2934
01:59:26,320 --> 01:59:30,320
>> actually no I do have a comment. Um

2935
01:59:30,320 --> 01:59:32,400
so as Mr. Watkins was stating when I

2936
01:59:32,400 --> 01:59:34,400
talked to him after I believe it was two

2937
01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:37,599
or three months ago when we approved the

2938
01:59:37,599 --> 01:59:40,000
final exteriors that's when I presented

2939
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:42,560
it to him and said hey this is you know

2940
01:59:42,560 --> 01:59:44,400
this is what it's going to look like and

2941
01:59:44,400 --> 01:59:46,880
then um

2942
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:50,159
a case ran an article on it and he saw

2943
01:59:50,159 --> 01:59:52,159
the rendering and he's like man that's

2944
01:59:52,159 --> 01:59:54,639
looks really good you know and and I did

2945
01:59:54,639 --> 01:59:56,000
tell him I said it might not look like

2946
01:59:56,000 --> 01:59:57,280
that because I felt like I needed to

2947
01:59:57,280 --> 02:00:00,960
tell him right and um so that's how all

2948
02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:03,599
that happened and then when

2949
02:00:03,599 --> 02:00:05,440
they came in for the final site plan

2950
02:00:05,440 --> 02:00:07,199
approval

2951
02:00:07,199 --> 02:00:09,119
because everything had already been

2952
02:00:09,119 --> 02:00:12,000
approved by this same council and was

2953
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:14,159
told at the time that's the final

2954
02:00:14,159 --> 02:00:17,040
decision any changes

2955
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:19,040
is going to cost money whether you know

2956
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:21,199
and yes maybe because changing of

2957
02:00:21,199 --> 02:00:25,679
material might might be net zero but for

2958
02:00:25,679 --> 02:00:27,440
us it was just a matter of moving

2959
02:00:27,440 --> 02:00:33,520
forward and part of that process Um but

2960
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:36,639
with respect to planning commission, I

2961
02:00:36,639 --> 02:00:38,480
like their idea that they wanted it to

2962
02:00:38,480 --> 02:00:41,679
be more historical. Um, I like the look

2963
02:00:41,679 --> 02:00:44,560
of more classical historical buildings

2964
02:00:44,560 --> 02:00:50,709
and so agreed to um

2965
02:00:50,719 --> 02:00:53,599
to, you know, um, put the meeting

2966
02:00:53,599 --> 02:00:55,679
together for planning commission and

2967
02:00:55,679 --> 02:00:58,080
city council members to come together

2968
02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:00,960
and try to come up with the consensus.

2969
02:01:00,960 --> 02:01:04,320
And for me, I guess what I envision is

2970
02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:06,239
if you're going to change, at least what

2971
02:01:06,239 --> 02:01:08,239
I heard at the time, and tell correct me

2972
02:01:08,239 --> 02:01:10,880
if I'm wrong, was the reasons for

2973
02:01:10,880 --> 02:01:13,520
changing it was that you wanted it to be

2974
02:01:13,520 --> 02:01:16,800
a more historical building.

2975
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:19,520
>> And um and if we're going to I'm sorry,

2976
02:01:19,520 --> 02:01:20,320
>> and cohesion

2977
02:01:20,320 --> 02:01:22,080
>> and cohes. But if we're going to do

2978
02:01:22,080 --> 02:01:24,239
that, make it look like a historical

2979
02:01:24,239 --> 02:01:25,920
building. Number one, I wish you guys

2980
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:28,960
would have said something months ago

2981
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:31,360
when they first came with the renderings

2982
02:01:31,360 --> 02:01:33,679
because that was the time for the change

2983
02:01:33,679 --> 02:01:35,599
and that's unfortunate. Number two, I

2984
02:01:35,599 --> 02:01:37,520
realize, you know, this is all a new

2985
02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:39,280
process for us. We've never really built

2986
02:01:39,280 --> 02:01:41,760
a building. I I don't believe Shane has

2987
02:01:41,760 --> 02:01:43,040
because this building was built before

2988
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:44,960
he was here and then I know none of us

2989
02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:47,840
have ret, you know, um, in reference to

2990
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:49,599
the city.

2991
02:01:49,599 --> 02:01:53,280
But my hope was is that you would come

2992
02:01:53,280 --> 02:01:54,960
up with something that if you're going

2993
02:01:54,960 --> 02:01:57,679
to delay things to come up with

2994
02:01:57,679 --> 02:01:59,920
something that truly was historical and

2995
02:01:59,920 --> 02:02:01,520
beautiful.

2996
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:05,760
If you go to number two, Kaden,

2997
02:02:05,760 --> 02:02:07,920
to me, I look at that and I don't see a

2998
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:09,520
historical building. I believe

2999
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:12,400
Councilwoman Haniman said, "Hey, this

3000
02:02:12,400 --> 02:02:15,199
should be a building that when future

3001
02:02:15,199 --> 02:02:16,880
developers want to come in or future

3002
02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:18,159
property owners want to come in and

3003
02:02:18,159 --> 02:02:20,239
build something on Main Street that we

3004
02:02:20,239 --> 02:02:21,599
should be able to say we want it to look

3005
02:02:21,599 --> 02:02:25,119
like this." I'm not sure I want our Main

3006
02:02:25,119 --> 02:02:27,760
Street to look like this.

3007
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:29,520
To me,

3008
02:02:29,520 --> 02:02:31,679
I guess I'm really disappointed with the

3009
02:02:31,679 --> 02:02:34,800
design elements that we've paid a

3010
02:02:34,800 --> 02:02:36,320
designer

3011
02:02:36,320 --> 02:02:39,280
to work with the existing structure and

3012
02:02:39,280 --> 02:02:42,800
in addition with complicated

3013
02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:44,880
um structures and try to still make it

3014
02:02:44,880 --> 02:02:46,480
look and I feel like he did a very good

3015
02:02:46,480 --> 02:02:47,840
job and I think a lot of people have

3016
02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:50,560
agreed that it did.

3017
02:02:50,560 --> 02:02:52,719
While I appreciate planning commission's

3018
02:02:52,719 --> 02:02:54,639
idea that they want more brick, if they

3019
02:02:54,639 --> 02:02:56,560
want more brick, put more brick and do

3020
02:02:56,560 --> 02:03:00,400
it right. That's my opinion. Or go with

3021
02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:03,440
the original which we which is the

3022
02:03:03,440 --> 02:03:07,119
original plan which will not cause any

3023
02:03:07,119 --> 02:03:09,599
increase to the cost of the project that

3024
02:03:09,599 --> 02:03:12,400
we will be able to meet the maximum

3025
02:03:12,400 --> 02:03:15,360
price for the project. But if you're

3026
02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:17,679
going to change it, change it to

3027
02:03:17,679 --> 02:03:20,800
something more, something better.

3028
02:03:20,800 --> 02:03:23,520
and really make it a showpiece if that's

3029
02:03:23,520 --> 02:03:24,960
what the intent was because that's what

3030
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:28,719
I understood and agreed to when that

3031
02:03:28,719 --> 02:03:30,320
planning commission and city council

3032
02:03:30,320 --> 02:03:31,760
were going to come together and we were

3033
02:03:31,760 --> 02:03:34,880
going to create a historical building

3034
02:03:34,880 --> 02:03:37,040
that would be

3035
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:39,360
the centerpiece for Main Street that

3036
02:03:39,360 --> 02:03:41,520
that's what we wanted future buildings

3037
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:43,119
to look like. So that when they come in

3038
02:03:43,119 --> 02:03:44,639
it's like we want your building to look

3039
02:03:44,639 --> 02:03:48,080
like this or something like this. And

3040
02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:51,119
honestly, I don't know if that's is that

3041
02:03:51,119 --> 02:03:54,239
what you're really thinking. You want

3042
02:03:54,239 --> 02:03:56,639
Main Street to look like this? Because I

3043
02:03:56,639 --> 02:03:58,159
don't think that's it. I've seen

3044
02:03:58,159 --> 02:04:00,400
pictures. I've talked to Alan McDonald.

3045
02:04:00,400 --> 02:04:03,760
I've seen the pictures that he sent me.

3046
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:06,480
And it doesn't look like this.

3047
02:04:06,480 --> 02:04:09,599
Um, if you're going to change it, make

3048
02:04:09,599 --> 02:04:12,000
it right. If not, leave the original

3049
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:14,719
design done by the professionals and

3050
02:04:14,719 --> 02:04:16,880
let's move on with the project. Well, a

3051
02:04:16,880 --> 02:04:18,560
couple of challenges with the original

3052
02:04:18,560 --> 02:04:21,679
design is that the faux wood is trending

3053
02:04:21,679 --> 02:04:25,119
and so it I think Mr. Watkins said it'll

3054
02:04:25,119 --> 02:04:27,360
be out in a few years anyway. We're

3055
02:04:27,360 --> 02:04:30,960
looking at anchoring our main street in

3056
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:34,880
sound Utah historic um principles. And

3057
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:36,800
so to do that, are we going to get it

3058
02:04:36,800 --> 02:04:39,360
exactly right on the fire station? We

3059
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:42,080
were given parameters of a structure

3060
02:04:42,080 --> 02:04:43,599
that already exists that we don't have

3061
02:04:43,599 --> 02:04:45,920
the ability to change. And so what we

3062
02:04:45,920 --> 02:04:48,560
have to do is take what we have and then

3063
02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:51,840
anchor sound principles in it so that we

3064
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:54,320
can then move forward and it's not just

3065
02:04:54,320 --> 02:04:56,400
going to be one person that's by this

3066
02:04:56,400 --> 02:04:58,560
building. We're talking about an entire

3067
02:04:58,560 --> 02:05:02,320
main street. And so I mean what what I

3068
02:05:02,320 --> 02:05:04,880
would love go to number four. I mean if

3069
02:05:04,880 --> 02:05:08,000
we really want to build a wow building

3070
02:05:08,000 --> 02:05:11,199
um let's let's go all out with the wood.

3071
02:05:11,199 --> 02:05:15,760
Let's really do something that um

3072
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:19,679
anchors in Utah history. Real wood does

3073
02:05:19,679 --> 02:05:23,109
that.

3074
02:05:23,119 --> 02:05:25,360
» Okay. Are we ready for a motion? Is

3075
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:26,880
there more to say?

3076
02:05:26,880 --> 02:05:27,520
>> No. Go ahead.

3077
02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:30,560
>> Anyone else? Brent? Okay. Shane,

3078
02:05:30,560 --> 02:05:32,800
anything more you want to say?

3079
02:05:32,800 --> 02:05:33,760
I think I'm

3080
02:05:33,760 --> 02:05:36,719
>> I just need to say that because uh the

3081
02:05:36,719 --> 02:05:39,040
reason the GMP the the guaranteed

3082
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:42,159
maximum price is not on tonight

3083
02:05:42,159 --> 02:05:44,639
um the project came back like a couple

3084
02:05:44,639 --> 02:05:47,040
hundred thousand but just over 200,000

3085
02:05:47,040 --> 02:05:49,840
over budget and so there's some work to

3086
02:05:49,840 --> 02:05:52,239
be done to try to narrow that down. I

3087
02:05:52,239 --> 02:05:54,080
point that out just because of four

3088
02:05:54,080 --> 02:05:56,560
would be the most expensive

3089
02:05:56,560 --> 02:05:59,040
which would add add cost okay to the

3090
02:05:59,040 --> 02:05:59,679
overall

3091
02:05:59,679 --> 02:06:02,639
>> thank you for that reality check we love

3092
02:06:02,639 --> 02:06:05,520
it reality check okay um I am going to

3093
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:09,040
make a motion um this I'm going to

3094
02:06:09,040 --> 02:06:13,040
propose I'm going to make just this is

3095
02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:14,880
all I'm going to say is I do believe

3096
02:06:14,880 --> 02:06:16,560
that we had to compromise because we

3097
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:18,400
have an existing building I happen to

3098
02:06:18,400 --> 02:06:20,159
drive by a brand new fire station in

3099
02:06:20,159 --> 02:06:21,920
another city and thought now That's what

3100
02:06:21,920 --> 02:06:23,440
we really wanted, but it was a brand new

3101
02:06:23,440 --> 02:06:25,440
build. So, we don't have that option to

3102
02:06:25,440 --> 02:06:27,199
do what we really want because this

3103
02:06:27,199 --> 02:06:30,480
building is existing and we have um

3104
02:06:30,480 --> 02:06:33,360
limitations as was described by Chad

3105
02:06:33,360 --> 02:06:35,119
number one or two, I don't know who you

3106
02:06:35,119 --> 02:06:37,360
are, but the Chad that's here tonight. I

3107
02:06:37,360 --> 02:06:39,119
want to thank our architect. He's been

3108
02:06:39,119 --> 02:06:41,040
over backwards. He's not here with us

3109
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:43,760
tonight, but obviously we he's done

3110
02:06:43,760 --> 02:06:45,679
everything he can to interpret what

3111
02:06:45,679 --> 02:06:48,639
we've had to say, and I I just really

3112
02:06:48,639 --> 02:06:51,520
feel like he's gone above and beyond

3113
02:06:51,520 --> 02:06:55,280
um what we should ask of our people and

3114
02:06:55,280 --> 02:06:57,760
that also includes our staff who's been

3115
02:06:57,760 --> 02:06:59,520
so patient including our fire chief

3116
02:06:59,520 --> 02:07:01,360
who's actually going to live in that

3117
02:07:01,360 --> 02:07:04,800
building so part-time. So he's been so

3118
02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:07,199
patient with us. Um our planning

3119
02:07:07,199 --> 02:07:10,159
commission has been vocal on this issue

3120
02:07:10,159 --> 02:07:12,320
because they are our gatekeeper of the

3121
02:07:12,320 --> 02:07:14,639
main street. I won't reiterate that. Our

3122
02:07:14,639 --> 02:07:16,639
donors, we don't just have one donor. We

3123
02:07:16,639 --> 02:07:18,239
have more than one donor. and we

3124
02:07:18,239 --> 02:07:19,760
overlook that sometimes that there's

3125
02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:22,000
another donor. So, this is important to

3126
02:07:22,000 --> 02:07:26,560
our s our whole city um that um that

3127
02:07:26,560 --> 02:07:28,880
they're willing to actually put their

3128
02:07:28,880 --> 02:07:30,800
own personal dollars into this project,

3129
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:34,800
which is remarkable. Um and Zans Bank as

3130
02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:36,159
well for helping us figure out how to

3131
02:07:36,159 --> 02:07:39,040
pay for it, which is of course a reality

3132
02:07:39,040 --> 02:07:42,960
check. So, I'm going to propose um that

3133
02:07:42,960 --> 02:07:44,960
Oh, my last comment is my favorite

3134
02:07:44,960 --> 02:07:47,599
saying is if we go go fast to go alone,

3135
02:07:47,599 --> 02:07:49,920
go far. You need to go together. So,

3136
02:07:49,920 --> 02:07:51,920
we've taken an extra two weeks to try

3137
02:07:51,920 --> 02:07:53,760
and get everyone together. You can see

3138
02:07:53,760 --> 02:07:56,000
we're still not 100% but I think we're

3139
02:07:56,000 --> 02:07:58,880
closer to where we were. And if having

3140
02:07:58,880 --> 02:08:00,639
been elected official for 10 years, you

3141
02:08:00,639 --> 02:08:02,800
always vote your conscience because

3142
02:08:02,800 --> 02:08:04,400
you're the only one that can live with

3143
02:08:04,400 --> 02:08:09,280
yourself. So, um, as as much as you want

3144
02:08:09,280 --> 02:08:10,880
to be influenced by the people around

3145
02:08:10,880 --> 02:08:12,400
you, you're going to live with your

3146
02:08:12,400 --> 02:08:16,159
vote. And I I can attest to that. Go

3147
02:08:16,159 --> 02:08:18,880
vote your conscience. My proposal is

3148
02:08:18,880 --> 02:08:20,719
that, okay, I had this written out and

3149
02:08:20,719 --> 02:08:23,360
then I had to go flip things around.

3150
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:26,000
Okay. I move to approve the exterior

3151
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:27,679
design of the Alpine Fire Station

3152
02:08:27,679 --> 02:08:29,199
addition remodel according to the

3153
02:08:29,199 --> 02:08:33,040
original design in option two of the

3154
02:08:33,040 --> 02:08:36,880
design options provided tonight. And I

3155
02:08:36,880 --> 02:08:39,199
think he's had that one up the most.

3156
02:08:39,199 --> 02:08:41,520
That's I'll limit it to that.

3157
02:08:41,520 --> 02:08:43,119
>> Is there a second?

3158
02:08:43,119 --> 02:08:44,719
>> I'll second.

3159
02:08:44,719 --> 02:08:45,760
>> Thank you, Sarah.

3160
02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:47,360
>> It's been moved by Councilwoman

3161
02:08:47,360 --> 02:08:49,119
Hanniman, seconded by Councilwoman

3162
02:08:49,119 --> 02:08:52,800
Blackwell. Any discussions or questions

3163
02:08:52,800 --> 02:08:56,560
regarding the motion?

3164
02:08:56,560 --> 02:08:59,199
Not let's proceed with a roll call vote.

3165
02:08:59,199 --> 02:09:00,639
>> I start.

3166
02:09:00,639 --> 02:09:04,079
>> I said I didn't say the prayer.

3167
02:09:04,079 --> 02:09:05,840
>> I don't know. I think we started the

3168
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:07,520
vote with Andrew.

3169
02:09:07,520 --> 02:09:09,360
>> Go Andrew.

3170
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:11,920
>> Andrew Young. No.

3171
02:09:11,920 --> 02:09:14,639
>> Jessica Simuan. Yes. Sarah Blackwell.

3172
02:09:14,639 --> 02:09:15,040
Yes.

3173
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:16,960
>> Chrissy Anaman. Yes.

3174
02:09:16,960 --> 02:09:19,280
>> Ren Rler. Yes.

3175
02:09:19,280 --> 02:09:22,870
Okay.

3176
02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:25,440
Item B, resolution,

3177
02:09:25,440 --> 02:09:28,719
>> but still thank you for your service.

3178
02:09:28,719 --> 02:09:34,069
>> Resolution R 2026-26A.

3179
02:09:34,079 --> 02:09:38,480
Oh, no. A resolution. Sorry.

3180
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:43,750
>> Yes. Let me get to the right page here.

3181
02:09:43,760 --> 02:09:46,639
» Okay. Um so with the site plan approval

3182
02:09:46,639 --> 02:09:49,040
and now approval number two um to

3183
02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:52,719
finalize things uh

3184
02:09:52,719 --> 02:09:54,639
our Alpine Fire Station and community

3185
02:09:54,639 --> 02:09:56,960
center project it's on its way. Um we've

3186
02:09:56,960 --> 02:09:59,760
been working with Mark Anderson at Zans

3187
02:09:59,760 --> 02:10:02,960
Public Finance uh to finalize the

3188
02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:06,560
remaining uh funding for the project. Um

3189
02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:10,000
as you you all know we uh we have saved

3190
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:12,239
some cash to put towards this project.

3191
02:10:12,239 --> 02:10:15,360
Uh there will be some coming out of

3192
02:10:15,360 --> 02:10:17,040
FY27

3193
02:10:17,040 --> 02:10:21,109
and then some out of FY28.

3194
02:10:21,119 --> 02:10:22,960
Um

3195
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:24,800
uh Brana Johnson from the firm

3196
02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:27,760
Farnsworth Johnson uh has been engaged

3197
02:10:27,760 --> 02:10:29,840
as a bond attorney and has prepared the

3198
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:31,360
documents that we need to start the

3199
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:34,400
bonding process. Um he's prepared

3200
02:10:34,400 --> 02:10:37,440
resolution 2026-20

3201
02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:39,599
uh 26

3202
02:10:39,599 --> 02:10:42,719
authorizing the issuance of the sales

3203
02:10:42,719 --> 02:10:45,760
tax revenue bonds for the project. Um

3204
02:10:45,760 --> 02:10:47,440
we've included that resolution in the

3205
02:10:47,440 --> 02:10:51,119
packet as well as uh a calendar of

3206
02:10:51,119 --> 02:10:54,800
events uh if this is approved uh for the

3207
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:57,360
rest of the bond going forward. And Mark

3208
02:10:57,360 --> 02:10:59,599
touched on some of those things earlier.

3209
02:10:59,599 --> 02:11:04,159
Um there was a a minor error. The middle

3210
02:11:04,159 --> 02:11:07,599
of the three potential motions did

3211
02:11:07,599 --> 02:11:10,719
originally refer to resolution 25 that

3212
02:11:10,719 --> 02:11:13,520
was corrected. And then in that amended

3213
02:11:13,520 --> 02:11:16,960
packet the exhibits. I hope everyone

3214
02:11:16,960 --> 02:11:22,950
read everyund and something pages.

3215
02:11:22,960 --> 02:11:25,360
I'm sure it did. Um

3216
02:11:25,360 --> 02:11:26,480
>> we read a lot of it.

3217
02:11:26,480 --> 02:11:29,040
>> They they were added in Monday as well.

3218
02:11:29,040 --> 02:11:30,800
Um,

3219
02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:33,760
so if there are any questions for Mark

3220
02:11:33,760 --> 02:11:35,920
or Brandon's here as well, I'm sure

3221
02:11:35,920 --> 02:11:42,470
they'd be happy to answer those.

3222
02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:45,750
» Jessica,

3223
02:11:45,760 --> 02:11:48,950
» Sarah,

3224
02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:50,159
» can you come back to me?

3225
02:11:50,159 --> 02:11:52,480
>> Sure. Chrissy,

3226
02:11:52,480 --> 02:11:55,440
>> no questions. I I have several, but I

3227
02:11:55,440 --> 02:11:57,040
rec recognize we have some residents

3228
02:11:57,040 --> 02:11:59,040
trying to get on to the next issue. Are

3229
02:11:59,040 --> 02:12:01,679
we voting on this to approve this $2

3230
02:12:01,679 --> 02:12:03,679
million bond for correct for like the

3231
02:12:03,679 --> 02:12:06,079
full thing? This is not to approve the

3232
02:12:06,079 --> 02:12:08,239
process to look at it and approve it.

3233
02:12:08,239 --> 02:12:10,079
This is to approve it. Correct.

3234
02:12:10,079 --> 02:12:13,119
>> This Mark can this is the starting of

3235
02:12:13,119 --> 02:12:15,119
the process. Just a quick summary.

3236
02:12:15,119 --> 02:12:16,639
>> Yes, please. Because we might be able to

3237
02:12:16,639 --> 02:12:18,320
forward our questions after. Is this

3238
02:12:18,320 --> 02:12:20,000
just to approve the process of looking

3239
02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:21,840
into the bond or is this to approve the

3240
02:12:21,840 --> 02:12:23,119
actual $2 million bond?

3241
02:12:23,119 --> 02:12:26,079
>> This starts the legal process as

3242
02:12:26,079 --> 02:12:30,560
required by state law to issue bonds

3243
02:12:30,560 --> 02:12:33,199
by a municipal entity.

3244
02:12:33,199 --> 02:12:35,840
>> Basically, it establishes what we call

3245
02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:38,560
parameters that the council will allow

3246
02:12:38,560 --> 02:12:42,000
the process to move forward in. Uh, in

3247
02:12:42,000 --> 02:12:44,239
that right now, we've said the maximum

3248
02:12:44,239 --> 02:12:46,639
borrowing would be $2 million. Shane and

3249
02:12:46,639 --> 02:12:48,239
I have discussed that maybe that ought

3250
02:12:48,239 --> 02:12:50,239
to be increased

3251
02:12:50,239 --> 02:12:53,920
uh because of the GMP came in higher

3252
02:12:53,920 --> 02:12:56,159
than anticipated.

3253
02:12:56,159 --> 02:12:58,560
uh it doesn't obligate you to borrow

3254
02:12:58,560 --> 02:13:01,199
money but it starts the process as

3255
02:13:01,199 --> 02:13:05,360
though you are going to uh it identifies

3256
02:13:05,360 --> 02:13:08,079
the maximum length of ter that the bonds

3257
02:13:08,079 --> 02:13:10,159
would be outstanding for which is 21

3258
02:13:10,159 --> 02:13:11,760
years

3259
02:13:11,760 --> 02:13:13,760
uh and the maximum interest rate which

3260
02:13:13,760 --> 02:13:16,880
we have at 6% but we really expect a

3261
02:13:16,880 --> 02:13:21,199
rate somewhere in the mid4s right now

3262
02:13:21,199 --> 02:13:24,960
uh privately placed it also schedules a

3263
02:13:24,960 --> 02:13:26,639
public hearing to allow the public to

3264
02:13:26,639 --> 02:13:28,719
come in and express support for or

3265
02:13:28,719 --> 02:13:30,639
opposition to the issuance of the bonds

3266
02:13:30,639 --> 02:13:33,280
which would take place on your July 14th

3267
02:13:33,280 --> 02:13:36,560
meeting. Uh it does not obligate you to

3268
02:13:36,560 --> 02:13:38,639
complete the process,

3269
02:13:38,639 --> 02:13:41,840
but it does designate certain officials

3270
02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:45,840
with certain authority to approve the

3271
02:13:45,840 --> 02:13:47,760
bond purchase

3272
02:13:47,760 --> 02:13:49,679
within the parameters that the council

3273
02:13:49,679 --> 02:13:52,560
would approve tonight.

3274
02:13:52,560 --> 02:13:54,560
But I assume there's going to be ongoing

3275
02:13:54,560 --> 02:13:57,440
communication with the group that

3276
02:13:57,440 --> 02:13:59,440
if you decide to, you know, if you want

3277
02:13:59,440 --> 02:14:01,199
to stop the process that there would be

3278
02:14:01,199 --> 02:14:02,800
discussions about

3279
02:14:02,800 --> 02:14:03,280
>> that.

3280
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:04,880
>> Is there a penalty for stopping the

3281
02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:06,079
process? Say we have the public.

3282
02:14:06,079 --> 02:14:08,239
>> There's no obligation to complete the

3283
02:14:08,239 --> 02:14:08,719
borrowing

3284
02:14:08,719 --> 02:14:10,960
>> and there's no uh money exchange

3285
02:14:10,960 --> 02:14:11,840
beforehand.

3286
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:12,960
>> That's right. We don't even get paid

3287
02:14:12,960 --> 02:14:15,760
unless bonds get issued. And uh just as

3288
02:14:15,760 --> 02:14:17,840
like a very quick on the actual because

3289
02:14:17,840 --> 02:14:21,520
I did read it this there are statements

3290
02:14:21,520 --> 02:14:24,719
that say it there's a range of so I have

3291
02:14:24,719 --> 02:14:26,000
several questions but I'll keep them to

3292
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:27,119
little knowing that we're going to have

3293
02:14:27,119 --> 02:14:29,280
more time to ask more questions that

3294
02:14:29,280 --> 02:14:32,560
there is a range a variable rate that it

3295
02:14:32,560 --> 02:14:35,920
will not exceed six and that it will be

3296
02:14:35,920 --> 02:14:38,079
above two I think

3297
02:14:38,079 --> 02:14:41,040
>> well there's a 2% discount and where you

3298
02:14:41,040 --> 02:14:42,560
privately place bonds we don't

3299
02:14:42,560 --> 02:14:44,639
anticipate that the bonds would be

3300
02:14:44,639 --> 02:14:46,719
bought at a discount. That sometimes

3301
02:14:46,719 --> 02:14:50,639
happens in the public market to where a

3302
02:14:50,639 --> 02:14:53,119
purchaser will pay less than the face

3303
02:14:53,119 --> 02:14:54,560
value of the bonds.

3304
02:14:54,560 --> 02:14:54,960
>> Okay.

3305
02:14:54,960 --> 02:14:56,880
>> Uh but that's not something we would

3306
02:14:56,880 --> 02:14:57,840
anticipate in a price.

3307
02:14:57,840 --> 02:14:59,679
>> This isn't a variable rate. Uh

3308
02:14:59,679 --> 02:15:01,280
>> no, it would be a fixed rate, but it

3309
02:15:01,280 --> 02:15:06,239
could be uh a serialized coupon in that

3310
02:15:06,239 --> 02:15:08,800
each maturity may have its own separate

3311
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:09,599
rate. C

3312
02:15:09,599 --> 02:15:10,800
>> and that's what I was reading where I

3313
02:15:10,800 --> 02:15:12,639
didn't understand. Bank of Utah, for

3314
02:15:12,639 --> 02:15:15,280
example, is a regular purchaser in the

3315
02:15:15,280 --> 02:15:17,679
state of Utah, but they may start out

3316
02:15:17,679 --> 02:15:20,079
with an interest rate of 3% in year 1,

3317
02:15:20,079 --> 02:15:24,159
and by year 20, they may be at 5.2%.

3318
02:15:24,159 --> 02:15:26,000
But the average or the true interest

3319
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:27,440
cost would probably be somewhere in the

3320
02:15:27,440 --> 02:15:30,960
mid 4%. But each coupon has its own.

3321
02:15:30,960 --> 02:15:32,480
>> The only guarantee is it doesn't excel

3322
02:15:32,480 --> 02:15:35,679
above six, but it can fluctuate in that

3323
02:15:35,679 --> 02:15:36,639
range. Correct.

3324
02:15:36,639 --> 02:15:37,119
>> Correct.

3325
02:15:37,119 --> 02:15:38,000
>> Okay.

3326
02:15:38,000 --> 02:15:39,920
>> But most of them are fixed rate for the

3327
02:15:39,920 --> 02:15:41,679
entire term.

3328
02:15:41,679 --> 02:15:44,560
as was the bond we showed earlier that

3329
02:15:44,560 --> 02:15:47,199
was outstanding for the 2020 bonds at

3330
02:15:47,199 --> 02:15:50,320
1.33% over the last 10 years.

3331
02:15:50,320 --> 02:15:52,639
>> Okay, thank you. The only comment is

3332
02:15:52,639 --> 02:15:54,400
that the addition, if I'm wrong, is

3333
02:15:54,400 --> 02:15:56,079
3.569

3334
02:15:56,079 --> 02:15:58,639
million. So, $2 million bond cost of

3335
02:15:58,639 --> 02:15:59,920
3.569.

3336
02:15:59,920 --> 02:16:00,400
>> Yes,

3337
02:16:00,400 --> 02:16:01,679
>> that's estimated.

3338
02:16:01,679 --> 02:16:04,079
>> So, correct me if I'm wrong.

3339
02:16:04,079 --> 02:16:05,599
>> Yeah, depending on the interest rate.

3340
02:16:05,599 --> 02:16:07,119
Brent, did you have any questions for

3341
02:16:07,119 --> 02:16:10,400
Mr. Anderson or anything regarding

3342
02:16:10,400 --> 02:16:12,880
um this agenda item?

3343
02:16:12,880 --> 02:16:15,119
>> No, I I was able to attend the the

3344
02:16:15,119 --> 02:16:16,560
meeting a couple months ago and he

3345
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:18,560
answered my questions then. So, thanks.

3346
02:16:18,560 --> 02:16:21,199
>> Thank you very much. Okay.

3347
02:16:21,199 --> 02:16:22,639
If there are no questions, I will

3348
02:16:22,639 --> 02:16:23,199
entertain.

3349
02:16:23,199 --> 02:16:24,880
>> Can I just follow one thing up? So the

3350
02:16:24,880 --> 02:16:27,280
discussion Mark and I had today with

3351
02:16:27,280 --> 02:16:28,560
where we're at with the guaranteed

3352
02:16:28,560 --> 02:16:30,800
maximum price is maybe instead of having

3353
02:16:30,800 --> 02:16:33,679
the upper end at 2 million just to give

3354
02:16:33,679 --> 02:16:36,240
our so we don't have to start over maybe

3355
02:16:36,240 --> 02:16:39,439
we put it at two and a half.

3356
02:16:39,439 --> 02:16:41,439
It will be less than that but that would

3357
02:16:41,439 --> 02:16:45,439
be give us a little bit of buffer for

3358
02:16:45,439 --> 02:16:47,359
you know any changes that could come in

3359
02:16:47,359 --> 02:16:48,479
the next couple weeks.

3360
02:16:48,479 --> 02:16:50,080
>> Does that need to be in the motion?

3361
02:16:50,080 --> 02:16:52,080
Yeah, because it's it's the two million

3362
02:16:52,080 --> 02:16:54,160
is stated in the resolution and it's a

3363
02:16:54,160 --> 02:16:58,950
simple change a zero to a

3364
02:16:58,960 --> 02:17:00,240
» I have a motion.

3365
02:17:00,240 --> 02:17:03,439
>> Okay. Okay. I move to approve resolution

3366
02:17:03,439 --> 02:17:05,519
R 2026-26,

3367
02:17:05,519 --> 02:17:08,080
a resolution authorizing the issuance of

3368
02:17:08,080 --> 02:17:12,000
the sales tax revenue bond with the um

3369
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:14,639
ceiling

3370
02:17:14,639 --> 02:17:18,559
>> change to 2.5 million.

3371
02:17:18,559 --> 02:17:19,439
Second the motion.

3372
02:17:19,439 --> 02:17:21,599
>> Okay. It's moved by Councilwoman Smeuan,

3373
02:17:21,599 --> 02:17:24,880
seconded by Councilwoman Henman. Um, are

3374
02:17:24,880 --> 02:17:26,880
there any questions regarding the

3375
02:17:26,880 --> 02:17:27,599
motion?

3376
02:17:27,599 --> 02:17:30,160
>> Could you just again clarify why 2.5

3377
02:17:30,160 --> 02:17:32,240
versus two again, Shane? Sorry.

3378
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:34,559
>> Uh, just let's say it, uh, the project

3379
02:17:34,559 --> 02:17:36,960
comes back and we can't shave any of

3380
02:17:36,960 --> 02:17:41,439
that 200,000 overage off. Um, let's say

3381
02:17:41,439 --> 02:17:44,319
we end up borrowing 2.2 million. Two and

3382
02:17:44,319 --> 02:17:46,719
a half. Just it we could say 2.2 two

3383
02:17:46,719 --> 02:17:49,359
tonight. The motion could say that, but

3384
02:17:49,359 --> 02:17:52,479
it just gives us a range of up to 2 and

3385
02:17:52,479 --> 02:17:53,280
a half billion.

3386
02:17:53,280 --> 02:17:55,280
>> Did they give any like likelihood of

3387
02:17:55,280 --> 02:17:57,519
being able to cut the cost or is that

3388
02:17:57,519 --> 02:17:58,719
looking pretty slim?

3389
02:17:58,719 --> 02:17:59,760
>> Structural element.

3390
02:17:59,760 --> 02:18:01,599
>> There's there's a lot of work being done

3391
02:18:01,599 --> 02:18:03,439
right now and there'll be a a meeting

3392
02:18:03,439 --> 02:18:06,000
tomorrow and um the plan is to come

3393
02:18:06,000 --> 02:18:07,280
back.

3394
02:18:07,280 --> 02:18:10,240
>> It didn't look like it was um something

3395
02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:12,399
that was flexible. I mean, it is the

3396
02:18:12,399 --> 02:18:12,880
core.

3397
02:18:12,880 --> 02:18:13,920
>> It's structural.

3398
02:18:13,920 --> 02:18:16,240
>> Okay. Like it's not like okay are they

3399
02:18:16,240 --> 02:18:17,760
going to get you know granite or are

3400
02:18:17,760 --> 02:18:18,639
they going to get

3401
02:18:18,639 --> 02:18:21,760
>> for Micah or what are the gonna be like

3402
02:18:21,760 --> 02:18:23,840
>> is the ceiling going to cave in or is it

3403
02:18:23,840 --> 02:18:24,960
going to

3404
02:18:24,960 --> 02:18:26,319
>> Yeah.

3405
02:18:26,319 --> 02:18:28,080
>> Are we in discussion mode right now on

3406
02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:28,880
the motion?

3407
02:18:28,880 --> 02:18:29,439
>> It is.

3408
02:18:29,439 --> 02:18:32,160
>> So just it's the motion itself. So the

3409
02:18:32,160 --> 02:18:34,399
motion was for 2.5 million. She was

3410
02:18:34,399 --> 02:18:36,960
asking about the amount. Go ahead.

3411
02:18:36,960 --> 02:18:38,719
>> Sorry just one last question. Sorry

3412
02:18:38,719 --> 02:18:41,679
Andrew. But um is that also partially

3413
02:18:41,679 --> 02:18:44,399
because like expenses have gone up too

3414
02:18:44,399 --> 02:18:46,319
since we first start started this

3415
02:18:46,319 --> 02:18:49,519
discussion of like what is our maximum

3416
02:18:49,519 --> 02:18:51,439
price that

3417
02:18:51,439 --> 02:18:51,760
or

3418
02:18:51,760 --> 02:18:53,920
>> I can relay what and if I say anything

3419
02:18:53,920 --> 02:18:56,479
wrong Chad can correct me Chad Jones

3420
02:18:56,479 --> 02:18:59,200
with Navigate but um like some of the

3421
02:18:59,200 --> 02:19:01,200
things in putting together the initial

3422
02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:05,120
estimate was estimating what structural

3423
02:19:05,120 --> 02:19:08,559
>> the cost of the structure uh some metal

3424
02:19:08,559 --> 02:19:10,399
some wood would would be. So they

3425
02:19:10,399 --> 02:19:12,639
estimated sizing on that. When the

3426
02:19:12,639 --> 02:19:14,160
actual structural came back from the

3427
02:19:14,160 --> 02:19:16,800
engineer, it was larger, which means

3428
02:19:16,800 --> 02:19:20,399
more expense and that was probably a big

3429
02:19:20,399 --> 02:19:25,120
chunk of that 200,000. So

3430
02:19:25,120 --> 02:19:25,760
>> they're doing the

3431
02:19:25,760 --> 02:19:28,319
>> that one is tough to change, but there's

3432
02:19:28,319 --> 02:19:30,080
other things that are being looked at to

3433
02:19:30,080 --> 02:19:31,439
try to

3434
02:19:31,439 --> 02:19:33,439
>> shave some money off and and get it

3435
02:19:33,439 --> 02:19:37,439
closer to that 5.8. Jessica, do you

3436
02:19:37,439 --> 02:19:39,120
still have more? Sarah, Jessica, on the

3437
02:19:39,120 --> 02:19:41,120
motion, it raises it from 2 million to

3438
02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:45,519
2.5. The first um conversation was this

3439
02:19:45,519 --> 02:19:47,920
was around five. That was our total and

3440
02:19:47,920 --> 02:19:49,359
then it then they came in and let us

3441
02:19:49,359 --> 02:19:51,840
know that it was going to go up to 5.8

3442
02:19:51,840 --> 02:19:54,160
and now we're finding out at bid it's

3443
02:19:54,160 --> 02:19:58,240
going to be more like six to 6.1.

3444
02:19:58,240 --> 02:20:00,640
In your motion, we're and you're seeing

3445
02:20:00,640 --> 02:20:02,160
what happens when we have a change.

3446
02:20:02,160 --> 02:20:03,600
There's a change and then we're locked.

3447
02:20:03,600 --> 02:20:05,600
like you change one thing, we're told,

3448
02:20:05,600 --> 02:20:07,840
well, now the price just went up more.

3449
02:20:07,840 --> 02:20:09,600
So, we're locking ourselves in debt and

3450
02:20:09,600 --> 02:20:12,800
locking ourselves out of an ability to

3451
02:20:12,800 --> 02:20:15,920
have flexibility. Uh, so I think maybe

3452
02:20:15,920 --> 02:20:17,760
one thing that might help the motion is

3453
02:20:17,760 --> 02:20:21,600
capping any future additions because if

3454
02:20:21,600 --> 02:20:23,600
we continue to go on this rate, we can

3455
02:20:23,600 --> 02:20:25,359
expect to see more additions is what I

3456
02:20:25,359 --> 02:20:28,080
would think. Now, I could be happily

3457
02:20:28,080 --> 02:20:31,520
surprised, but it keeps happening. I

3458
02:20:31,520 --> 02:20:33,840
think that's outside of right now what

3459
02:20:33,840 --> 02:20:37,840
we're voting on which is the bond

3460
02:20:37,840 --> 02:20:40,399
>> that so we don't adding the addendum

3461
02:20:40,399 --> 02:20:40,720
about

3462
02:20:40,720 --> 02:20:42,560
>> Okay, you guys hold up. Hold up. What

3463
02:20:42,560 --> 02:20:44,080
I'm understanding you're saying is that

3464
02:20:44,080 --> 02:20:45,760
you want her to amend the motion. Yes.

3465
02:20:45,760 --> 02:20:47,520
Do you accept that amendment?

3466
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:49,120
>> Okay, that dies.

3467
02:20:49,120 --> 02:20:50,880
>> So Brent, do you have any questions

3468
02:20:50,880 --> 02:20:53,520
regarding this motion?

3469
02:20:53,520 --> 02:20:54,160
>> No.

3470
02:20:54,160 --> 02:20:55,840
>> If not, let's proceed with the roll call

3471
02:20:55,840 --> 02:20:56,720
vote.

3472
02:20:56,720 --> 02:20:57,840
>> Andrew Young, no.

3473
02:20:57,840 --> 02:21:00,800
>> Jessica Suan, yes. Sarah Blackwell, no.

3474
02:21:00,800 --> 02:21:02,640
>> Chrissy Henman, yes.

3475
02:21:02,640 --> 02:21:04,479
>> Bren Rumbler, yes.

3476
02:21:04,479 --> 02:21:08,479
>> Okay. Resolution R2026-26

3477
02:21:08,479 --> 02:21:10,000
passes.

3478
02:21:10,000 --> 02:21:12,720
Okay. Item C,

3479
02:21:12,720 --> 02:21:15,359
um, request for approval of funds to

3480
02:21:15,359 --> 02:21:17,280
determine property owner near Alpine

3481
02:21:17,280 --> 02:21:19,040
Highway.

3482
02:21:19,040 --> 02:21:20,399
Thank you everybody for coming.

3483
02:21:20,399 --> 02:21:22,319
Appreciate your attendance. I know it's

3484
02:21:22,319 --> 02:21:28,950
been a long night.

3485
02:21:28,960 --> 02:21:31,840
Did you get some?

3486
02:21:31,840 --> 02:21:33,600
>> Okay.

3487
02:21:33,600 --> 02:21:38,070
>> No. You want

3488
02:21:38,080 --> 02:21:43,270
» You don't need it.

3489
02:21:43,280 --> 02:21:45,120
» I'm good.

3490
02:21:45,120 --> 02:21:48,080
>> Okay. Um, so this item uh was requested

3491
02:21:48,080 --> 02:21:51,920
to be on the agenda. Um there's uh some

3492
02:21:51,920 --> 02:21:55,200
property down east of Alpine Highway and

3493
02:21:55,200 --> 02:21:58,880
kind of between the west end of

3494
02:21:58,880 --> 02:22:03,680
Alaganyway and Alpine Highway. Um that

3495
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:06,399
uh the ownership of that area has been

3496
02:22:06,399 --> 02:22:10,319
questioned. Um so this item was included

3497
02:22:10,319 --> 02:22:13,200
on the May 12th council meeting agenda.

3498
02:22:13,200 --> 02:22:16,880
We had a discussion there. um

3499
02:22:16,880 --> 02:22:19,520
uh staff was instructed to kind of do

3500
02:22:19,520 --> 02:22:21,120
some work on this and see what we could

3501
02:22:21,120 --> 02:22:25,920
find out. Um so since then we have

3502
02:22:25,920 --> 02:22:27,680
done

3503
02:22:27,680 --> 02:22:29,600
part of the work that a title company

3504
02:22:29,600 --> 02:22:31,120
would do. We're not a title company, but

3505
02:22:31,120 --> 02:22:35,120
we do know how to research deeds. Um so

3506
02:22:35,120 --> 02:22:38,720
we did some of that back to about 1979.

3507
02:22:38,720 --> 02:22:41,920
Looked at a uh some deeds from 1979 to

3508
02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:44,160
about 2004.

3509
02:22:44,160 --> 02:22:46,479
Um, this strip of land shows up on the

3510
02:22:46,479 --> 02:22:48,720
warranty deeds and there was there was

3511
02:22:48,720 --> 02:22:51,520
one quick claim deed in there

3512
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:55,120
um from 1979 up to 2003.

3513
02:22:55,120 --> 02:22:57,680
In 2003, there's a corrective warranty

3514
02:22:57,680 --> 02:22:59,840
deed that

3515
02:22:59,840 --> 02:23:02,720
um kind of narrowed the property that

3516
02:23:02,720 --> 02:23:08,319
was u on the 2003 deed, same ownership.

3517
02:23:08,319 --> 02:23:10,479
And then that property changed hands a

3518
02:23:10,479 --> 02:23:12,960
couple times and was developed to what

3519
02:23:12,960 --> 02:23:16,240
is now um what's the subdivision called?

3520
02:23:16,240 --> 02:23:19,280
I forgot. It's the Bradock Bradic Lane

3521
02:23:19,280 --> 02:23:21,600
area there

3522
02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:26,160
and the Rachel McTar Park. Um so

3523
02:23:26,160 --> 02:23:28,640
we believe that

3524
02:23:28,640 --> 02:23:30,560
the lane

3525
02:23:30,560 --> 02:23:32,880
is under private ownership. We can't

3526
02:23:32,880 --> 02:23:35,520
really say who owns it, but we can say

3527
02:23:35,520 --> 02:23:38,399
that it does carry through on

3528
02:23:38,399 --> 02:23:42,080
a lot of deeds from 1979 going forward

3529
02:23:42,080 --> 02:23:44,160
to 2003.

3530
02:23:44,160 --> 02:23:47,600
Um so the question is

3531
02:23:47,600 --> 02:23:50,000
um is the city

3532
02:23:50,000 --> 02:23:54,560
willing to spend money to determine who

3533
02:23:54,560 --> 02:23:56,800
owns that property? Um the one thing I

3534
02:23:56,800 --> 02:23:58,720
did leave out, we do have a sewer line

3535
02:23:58,720 --> 02:24:00,960
that goes through this area down this

3536
02:24:00,960 --> 02:24:06,560
lane. It was put in in right around 95

3537
02:24:06,560 --> 02:24:08,560
uh 1995.

3538
02:24:08,560 --> 02:24:11,590
Um

3539
02:24:11,600 --> 02:24:13,439
that's about when I started a Horox. So

3540
02:24:13,439 --> 02:24:15,439
I can't really say what happened, but we

3541
02:24:15,439 --> 02:24:17,760
can't find an easement for it. Um but it

3542
02:24:17,760 --> 02:24:20,399
has been in use since then. So for

3543
02:24:20,399 --> 02:24:22,880
approximately 30 years.

3544
02:24:22,880 --> 02:24:24,399
Um

3545
02:24:24,399 --> 02:24:26,800
so if push came to shove, we believe

3546
02:24:26,800 --> 02:24:28,640
there would be a prescriptive use there,

3547
02:24:28,640 --> 02:24:31,600
but it's for that utility. It's for a

3548
02:24:31,600 --> 02:24:33,680
sewer line. So, you wouldn't be able to

3549
02:24:33,680 --> 02:24:36,000
go build something else on top of it and

3550
02:24:36,000 --> 02:24:39,040
claim that, right? That's what uh our

3551
02:24:39,040 --> 02:24:41,359
city attorney has told us in previous

3552
02:24:41,359 --> 02:24:44,240
meetings. So, um so the question comes

3553
02:24:44,240 --> 02:24:46,640
down to what do you want to do with this

3554
02:24:46,640 --> 02:24:48,160
information and how do you want to move

3555
02:24:48,160 --> 02:24:49,280
forward?

3556
02:24:49,280 --> 02:24:52,319
>> I just have a question just for clarity.

3557
02:24:52,319 --> 02:24:54,479
>> Were there any deeds that stated that

3558
02:24:54,479 --> 02:24:57,920
the city was the owner of the lane?

3559
02:24:57,920 --> 02:24:59,520
>> No. The only thing that I've seen

3560
02:24:59,520 --> 02:25:01,439
there's two there's two private surveys.

3561
02:25:01,439 --> 02:25:03,600
So when a survey surveyor goes out and

3562
02:25:03,600 --> 02:25:07,280
surveys property um this doesn't always

3563
02:25:07,280 --> 02:25:09,439
happen but they're supposed to by state

3564
02:25:09,439 --> 02:25:12,160
law record their survey with the county.

3565
02:25:12,160 --> 02:25:15,920
So there's two surveys on file. Uh one

3566
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:20,319
from 1996 by Dudley and Associates. Um

3567
02:25:20,319 --> 02:25:24,240
it shows this strip of land um being uh

3568
02:25:24,240 --> 02:25:26,880
the owner at the time was Cutler. It

3569
02:25:26,880 --> 02:25:29,840
shows it going out to Alpine Highway. A

3570
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:32,720
survey that was done later. Um,

3571
02:25:32,720 --> 02:25:36,240
>> and Kayen, I have a I file in the staff

3572
02:25:36,240 --> 02:25:36,960
report.

3573
02:25:36,960 --> 02:25:38,000
>> You can pull it up.

3574
02:25:38,000 --> 02:25:39,520
>> If you can scroll down just a little

3575
02:25:39,520 --> 02:25:41,280
bit.

3576
02:25:41,280 --> 02:25:43,840
Oh, no. Go back up to the second page of

3577
02:25:43,840 --> 02:25:45,920
the staff report.

3578
02:25:45,920 --> 02:25:47,600
Anyway, it's in there somewhere that it

3579
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:49,520
was a later survey probably about 10

3580
02:25:49,520 --> 02:25:53,600
years ago that uh Ed Gford did. and he

3581
02:25:53,600 --> 02:25:56,319
shows on his survey

3582
02:25:56,319 --> 02:25:59,760
uh I think it's a 33 ft uh foot ride

3583
02:25:59,760 --> 02:26:02,080
ofway that he believed was in the name

3584
02:26:02,080 --> 02:26:04,160
of the city. He actually came in at that

3585
02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:06,640
time and met with us and explained why

3586
02:26:06,640 --> 02:26:09,600
he thought it was um under city

3587
02:26:09,600 --> 02:26:12,479
ownership and it honestly in all the

3588
02:26:12,479 --> 02:26:14,160
years I've dealt with all this stuff it

3589
02:26:14,160 --> 02:26:16,800
didn't make any sense at all to me. Um

3590
02:26:16,800 --> 02:26:17,280
so I don't

3591
02:26:17,280 --> 02:26:18,720
>> and that one was recorded with the

3592
02:26:18,720 --> 02:26:19,840
county also.

3593
02:26:19,840 --> 02:26:22,319
it it's it's on file with the county,

3594
02:26:22,319 --> 02:26:24,080
but that doesn't

3595
02:26:24,080 --> 02:26:26,399
>> like trans ownership or anything like

3596
02:26:26,399 --> 02:26:26,560
that.

3597
02:26:26,560 --> 02:26:28,240
>> That doesn't establish ownership.

3598
02:26:28,240 --> 02:26:30,880
>> Yeah. So, typically, and you know, the

3599
02:26:30,880 --> 02:26:32,240
surveyor that was here a couple weeks

3600
02:26:32,240 --> 02:26:34,160
ago on a different subject, I asked him

3601
02:26:34,160 --> 02:26:35,760
a couple questions. Usually, if there's

3602
02:26:35,760 --> 02:26:40,080
a gap, it typically would end up going

3603
02:26:40,080 --> 02:26:42,000
um you know, there's property owner on

3604
02:26:42,000 --> 02:26:46,080
either side, you know, it would usually

3605
02:26:46,080 --> 02:26:47,040
go to those two.

3606
02:26:47,040 --> 02:26:49,280
>> Yeah, that's what they told me. That's

3607
02:26:49,280 --> 02:26:52,560
very typical in my experience. Um, so I

3608
02:26:52,560 --> 02:26:55,600
haven't been able to find anything here

3609
02:26:55,600 --> 02:26:58,319
that would say it's a cities. You know,

3610
02:26:58,319 --> 02:27:01,040
if Alagany Way had been there since

3611
02:27:01,040 --> 02:27:01,760
>> way back when

3612
02:27:01,760 --> 02:27:04,560
>> 1970 or whatever and this rideway was

3613
02:27:04,560 --> 02:27:06,640
there, maybe it was a continuation of

3614
02:27:06,640 --> 02:27:09,840
that, but that's not the case here.

3615
02:27:09,840 --> 02:27:10,640
>> Um, you know,

3616
02:27:10,640 --> 02:27:12,800
>> what year did Alagany Way come through?

3617
02:27:12,800 --> 02:27:15,040
So that subdivision was started in

3618
02:27:15,040 --> 02:27:18,160
around 95 and it was built in phases.

3619
02:27:18,160 --> 02:27:18,399
Okay.

3620
02:27:18,399 --> 02:27:19,120
>> Um

3621
02:27:19,120 --> 02:27:20,960
>> and when that was built it still said

3622
02:27:20,960 --> 02:27:23,680
that that belong to these individuals.

3623
02:27:23,680 --> 02:27:30,160
>> So there's no deed that has recorded

3624
02:27:30,160 --> 02:27:34,640
that this land belongs to the city.

3625
02:27:34,640 --> 02:27:38,000
Why are we paying to find out who owns

3626
02:27:38,000 --> 02:27:41,040
this if it belongs to a private owner?

3627
02:27:41,040 --> 02:27:43,439
>> And that's why

3628
02:27:43,439 --> 02:27:45,200
I said, "This item really needs to come

3629
02:27:45,200 --> 02:27:46,720
to council because I don't feel

3630
02:27:46,720 --> 02:27:48,720
comfortable as a city administrator

3631
02:27:48,720 --> 02:27:51,439
spending money on private property. If

3632
02:27:51,439 --> 02:27:53,680
the council chooses to do that, that's

3633
02:27:53,680 --> 02:27:56,240
their prerogative, but I I didn't feel

3634
02:27:56,240 --> 02:27:58,560
comfortable doing that from my seat."

3635
02:27:58,560 --> 02:28:00,960
>> Okay.

3636
02:28:00,960 --> 02:28:03,359
>> Jessica, did you have a comment? So,

3637
02:28:03,359 --> 02:28:06,560
when we were looking at the another

3638
02:28:06,560 --> 02:28:08,240
trail in a different area, and this is

3639
02:28:08,240 --> 02:28:11,040
more for Steve, was there a track record

3640
02:28:11,040 --> 02:28:13,760
of deeds?

3641
02:28:13,760 --> 02:28:16,240
>> I'm asking Steve on that one, like

3642
02:28:16,240 --> 02:28:18,800
>> I think you're you're referring to a

3643
02:28:18,800 --> 02:28:22,960
situation where there was a common area

3644
02:28:22,960 --> 02:28:26,560
designated on a plat. And so, we were we

3645
02:28:26,560 --> 02:28:28,560
were trying to get to that. And we

3646
02:28:28,560 --> 02:28:30,160
actually

3647
02:28:30,160 --> 02:28:33,840
Yes. That was helpful to have

3648
02:28:33,840 --> 02:28:36,800
that additional evidence from the title

3649
02:28:36,800 --> 02:28:39,760
company, but because it was designated

3650
02:28:39,760 --> 02:28:41,760
on a plat's common area, but there was

3651
02:28:41,760 --> 02:28:44,800
no HOA to govern the common area,

3652
02:28:44,800 --> 02:28:45,439
>> right?

3653
02:28:45,439 --> 02:28:47,840
>> That that's a that's a different issue.

3654
02:28:47,840 --> 02:28:50,720
It wasn't it wasn't private property

3655
02:28:50,720 --> 02:28:53,680
going to the middle and you know, we

3656
02:28:53,680 --> 02:28:55,200
don't have anything here that says this

3657
02:28:55,200 --> 02:28:57,439
is common area or this belongs to

3658
02:28:57,439 --> 02:28:59,439
>> I'm not saying it's the same. I'm just

3659
02:28:59,439 --> 02:29:01,120
saying there are times when we don't

3660
02:29:01,120 --> 02:29:03,680
know who owns land and there are times

3661
02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:06,160
when we have to look a little deeper and

3662
02:29:06,160 --> 02:29:08,479
understand who property owners are.

3663
02:29:08,479 --> 02:29:11,040
>> I think what um

3664
02:29:11,040 --> 02:29:13,520
>> so we did have the deed

3665
02:29:13,520 --> 02:29:16,960
>> I just want to talk but I know but you

3666
02:29:16,960 --> 02:29:18,640
were referring to that Mr. Taylor did

3667
02:29:18,640 --> 02:29:20,479
deed over that property to us and the

3668
02:29:20,479 --> 02:29:22,240
county refused it because of the way it

3669
02:29:22,240 --> 02:29:22,960
was recorded

3670
02:29:22,960 --> 02:29:25,439
>> but it was important to to look further.

3671
02:29:25,439 --> 02:29:28,720
That's my point. Oh, you know, as a as

3672
02:29:28,720 --> 02:29:31,040
public spaces and you know, our identity

3673
02:29:31,040 --> 02:29:34,080
as a trail community, one of the reasons

3674
02:29:34,080 --> 02:29:36,240
we have high property values is because

3675
02:29:36,240 --> 02:29:38,800
we prioritize trails and open space,

3676
02:29:38,800 --> 02:29:42,000
public access. So, the question was why

3677
02:29:42,000 --> 02:29:45,760
would we spend um city money and so

3678
02:29:45,760 --> 02:29:47,439
question, right? Well, we don't know

3679
02:29:47,439 --> 02:29:49,280
that it's private property. There is

3680
02:29:49,280 --> 02:29:52,319
potential because we've have information

3681
02:29:52,319 --> 02:29:54,640
that it may be private property. I think

3682
02:29:54,640 --> 02:29:56,080
there's a couple of people here that

3683
02:29:56,080 --> 02:29:58,960
have a lot of information to point to

3684
02:29:58,960 --> 02:30:01,520
very clear probability that the city

3685
02:30:01,520 --> 02:30:04,160
owns it. So if we I mean I think

3686
02:30:04,160 --> 02:30:05,920
>> we have two people with comments, but I

3687
02:30:05,920 --> 02:30:07,760
wanted to hear what you had to say, what

3688
02:30:07,760 --> 02:30:09,840
count um what council had to say and

3689
02:30:09,840 --> 02:30:11,359
then we'll let public comment come up.

3690
02:30:11,359 --> 02:30:13,600
>> Right. So that's the why. I think the

3691
02:30:13,600 --> 02:30:15,680
why is it's super important. I bet if we

3692
02:30:15,680 --> 02:30:17,680
look at our park survey, it's going to

3693
02:30:17,680 --> 02:30:19,439
talk about the priority that residents

3694
02:30:19,439 --> 02:30:21,920
have for trails and open space. I don't

3695
02:30:21,920 --> 02:30:23,680
know how many residents would really

3696
02:30:23,680 --> 02:30:25,840
want a trail that goes to Alpine Highway

3697
02:30:25,840 --> 02:30:27,920
where there is no sidewalk.

3698
02:30:27,920 --> 02:30:29,359
>> Well, we're trying to make Alpine

3699
02:30:29,359 --> 02:30:31,840
Highway better. Give us some time.

3700
02:30:31,840 --> 02:30:32,640
>> No, no, no.

3701
02:30:32,640 --> 02:30:34,000
>> It's part of the plan.

3702
02:30:34,000 --> 02:30:35,040
>> Do you have anything else?

3703
02:30:35,040 --> 02:30:35,840
>> Nope. That's it.

3704
02:30:35,840 --> 02:30:37,280
>> Okay.

3705
02:30:37,280 --> 02:30:39,520
>> Um I don't really have any questions.

3706
02:30:39,520 --> 02:30:42,160
Just my I I guess maybe I do. Just the

3707
02:30:42,160 --> 02:30:44,000
one thing that I think this hinges on is

3708
02:30:44,000 --> 02:30:45,760
if there's a chance that Alpine City

3709
02:30:45,760 --> 02:30:47,920
owns this, then I'm okay with spending

3710
02:30:47,920 --> 02:30:49,920
the funds to research that and figure

3711
02:30:49,920 --> 02:30:54,550
that out. So

3712
02:30:54,560 --> 02:30:57,520
when this came through originally, my

3713
02:30:57,520 --> 02:31:01,680
terminology was if the if it's likely

3714
02:31:01,680 --> 02:31:04,000
that there's something to benefit from,

3715
02:31:04,000 --> 02:31:05,760
we could proceed. But it seems like with

3716
02:31:05,760 --> 02:31:08,880
the research we've had, it's unlikely.

3717
02:31:08,880 --> 02:31:14,880
And so, um, I'm not sure, not no I'm I'm

3718
02:31:14,880 --> 02:31:17,600
pretty no I talked to somebody in the

3719
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:20,720
again my my reference in the title and

3720
02:31:20,720 --> 02:31:24,240
they just are very clear that if that

3721
02:31:24,240 --> 02:31:27,439
the easement on this land is not

3722
02:31:27,439 --> 02:31:30,640
ownership. And so it's highly likely,

3723
02:31:30,640 --> 02:31:32,800
more than likely, whether we have a

3724
02:31:32,800 --> 02:31:35,520
recorded easement or not, we we have the

3725
02:31:35,520 --> 02:31:37,120
sewer line through there, that all we

3726
02:31:37,120 --> 02:31:40,800
would gain is a defined easement, which

3727
02:31:40,800 --> 02:31:42,640
a sewer line easement does not allow

3728
02:31:42,640 --> 02:31:45,040
people to walk on private property

3729
02:31:45,040 --> 02:31:48,399
because there hasn't been a histo.

3730
02:31:48,399 --> 02:31:51,840
So I I'm to the point where I don't feel

3731
02:31:51,840 --> 02:31:54,880
where it's likely to end up in our in

3732
02:31:54,880 --> 02:31:57,359
the way we were thinking based on and I

3733
02:31:57,359 --> 02:31:59,200
do think it was worth investigating like

3734
02:31:59,200 --> 02:32:01,760
as Jessica pointed out and we've we've

3735
02:32:01,760 --> 02:32:03,680
done some investigation. is looking less

3736
02:32:03,680 --> 02:32:05,040
likely even than when it was first

3737
02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:07,600
brought to us um based on what's

3738
02:32:07,600 --> 02:32:09,040
recorded at the county.

3739
02:32:09,040 --> 02:32:10,880
>> Like if any final comment

3740
02:32:10,880 --> 02:32:13,600
>> if any of those deeds had said you know

3741
02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:17,040
it was deed to Alpine City totally but

3742
02:32:17,040 --> 02:32:19,280
with all the conveyances that happened

3743
02:32:19,280 --> 02:32:22,319
not once as far as I understand did it

3744
02:32:22,319 --> 02:32:24,240
ever say that it you know it belonged to

3745
02:32:24,240 --> 02:32:27,120
Alpine City. Andrew,

3746
02:32:27,120 --> 02:32:28,000
>> uh, I have,

3747
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:29,359
>> that's why I'm going.

3748
02:32:29,359 --> 02:32:30,800
>> I have several things. I'm the sponsor

3749
02:32:30,800 --> 02:32:34,319
of this one. Uh, but could I, uh, give

3750
02:32:34,319 --> 02:32:36,399
up my time and let some of the residents

3751
02:32:36,399 --> 02:32:38,160
speak to give them more time?

3752
02:32:38,160 --> 02:32:39,840
>> You can ask your question. I've got two

3753
02:32:39,840 --> 02:32:42,000
cards. I have two people that want to

3754
02:32:42,000 --> 02:32:43,359
speak on this. And so,

3755
02:32:43,359 --> 02:32:45,200
>> uh, could I just see a raise of hand of

3756
02:32:45,200 --> 02:32:46,960
who is wanting to speak? Some people

3757
02:32:46,960 --> 02:32:49,120
don't know the process. Is everyone who

3758
02:32:49,120 --> 02:32:51,120
wants to speak, have you filled out a

3759
02:32:51,120 --> 02:32:52,800
card?

3760
02:32:52,800 --> 02:32:56,160
>> Does the N does

3761
02:32:56,160 --> 02:32:58,000
I was the only reason is because I don't

3762
02:32:58,000 --> 02:32:59,439
even know all the information. We do

3763
02:32:59,439 --> 02:33:00,960
have for the first time is it Willard

3764
02:33:00,960 --> 02:33:05,439
Spikes. Spike Spikes.

3765
02:33:05,439 --> 02:33:07,439
>> You're talking in behalf. Okay. Okay.

3766
02:33:07,439 --> 02:33:09,840
Are you okay with that, Mayor? I I with

3767
02:33:09,840 --> 02:33:11,359
a couple of them speaking versus me.

3768
02:33:11,359 --> 02:33:12,960
>> Yes. But I'm sorry. I don't have a card

3769
02:33:12,960 --> 02:33:14,800
for you and it's not time yet.

3770
02:33:14,800 --> 02:33:16,000
>> Can I fill out a card?

3771
02:33:16,000 --> 02:33:17,920
>> Yes. Can you

3772
02:33:17,920 --> 02:33:19,760
>> ma'am if you could sit down until we

3773
02:33:19,760 --> 02:33:20,880
call you up?

3774
02:33:20,880 --> 02:33:21,520
>> No. No.

3775
02:33:21,520 --> 02:33:22,720
>> Can she give you a card?

3776
02:33:22,720 --> 02:33:24,000
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's totally

3777
02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:25,680
fine. Can you finish your question?

3778
02:33:25,680 --> 02:33:26,399
Nothing.

3779
02:33:26,399 --> 02:33:27,680
>> For time sake, I'll

3780
02:33:27,680 --> 02:33:29,439
>> Thank you. Brent, do you have anything

3781
02:33:29,439 --> 02:33:31,600
that you want to add to this?

3782
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:32,880
>> No, I just said I'm in line with

3783
02:33:32,880 --> 02:33:36,080
Chrissy. Um, if there is some compelling

3784
02:33:36,080 --> 02:33:37,840
information that we haven't seen yet, I

3785
02:33:37,840 --> 02:33:39,680
kind of wish we would have had it before

3786
02:33:39,680 --> 02:33:41,200
tonight so we could look at that and

3787
02:33:41,200 --> 02:33:42,399
consider it.

3788
02:33:42,399 --> 02:33:45,200
>> Um, so I'm I'm glad to I'm glad to

3789
02:33:45,200 --> 02:33:48,560
listen and and and and consider any new

3790
02:33:48,560 --> 02:33:50,560
information. I think that's great. So

3791
02:33:50,560 --> 02:33:52,080
far, I haven't seen anything compelling

3792
02:33:52,080 --> 02:33:54,000
that would indicate there's ever been

3793
02:33:54,000 --> 02:33:56,319
any ownership by the city that would

3794
02:33:56,319 --> 02:34:02,560
stand up to, you know, a title search or a lawsuit.

3795
02:34:02,560 --> 02:34:03,439
>> I was just going to say,

3796
02:34:03,439 --> 02:34:05,200
>> wait, before we open this to the public

3797
02:34:05,200 --> 02:34:07,520
though, why are we changing our policy?

3798
02:34:07,520 --> 02:34:09,439
We used to not allow public comment on

3799
02:34:09,439 --> 02:34:10,399
things on the agenda.

3800
02:34:10,399 --> 02:34:12,479
>> It's mostly informational. It's not It's

3801
02:34:12,479 --> 02:34:12,960
not

3802
02:34:12,960 --> 02:34:15,760
>> public comment is public comment.

3803
02:34:15,760 --> 02:34:17,760
I I don't understand that. We can

3804
02:34:17,760 --> 02:34:19,359
discuss that at a later time. I think

3805
02:34:19,359 --> 02:34:21,040
the honest answer is it's in the

3806
02:34:21,040 --> 02:34:22,479
>> I have a question though, Chrissy. You

3807
02:34:22,479 --> 02:34:25,520
said you talked to somebody who um is in

3808
02:34:25,520 --> 02:34:29,280
the profession of titles and what

3809
02:34:29,280 --> 02:34:32,160
>> um did they give an example of in what

3810
02:34:32,160 --> 02:34:34,560
situation where we would have rights to

3811
02:34:34,560 --> 02:34:36,560
that land and that it would belong to us

3812
02:34:36,560 --> 02:34:39,120
with the deed saying that it literally

3813
02:34:39,120 --> 02:34:42,640
named everybody else but us?

3814
02:34:42,640 --> 02:34:43,200
>> Do you know?

3815
02:34:43,200 --> 02:34:46,080
>> No. Exactly. because there is no like

3816
02:34:46,080 --> 02:34:48,800
just because we I I was confused and I

3817
02:34:48,800 --> 02:34:50,880
was clarified that just because we have

3818
02:34:50,880 --> 02:34:53,120
a sewer line there there's there's

3819
02:34:53,120 --> 02:34:54,720
utility easements on every piece of

3820
02:34:54,720 --> 02:34:57,280
property even my own property and so a

3821
02:34:57,280 --> 02:34:59,760
utility easement even if it was never

3822
02:34:59,760 --> 02:35:02,800
recorded would not convey ownership and

3823
02:35:02,800 --> 02:35:06,000
I I I wasn't clear on that and so it's

3824
02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:09,680
very routine to convey an easement for

3825
02:35:09,680 --> 02:35:11,600
utilities such as a sewer line that

3826
02:35:11,600 --> 02:35:13,280
without conveying ownership so if we

3827
02:35:13,280 --> 02:35:15,760
don't convey ownership, then that's what

3828
02:35:15,760 --> 02:35:17,680
the was the objective of a title search

3829
02:35:17,680 --> 02:35:20,479
because title would dictate ownership.

3830
02:35:20,479 --> 02:35:23,040
So, it's unlikely, very unlikely that

3831
02:35:23,040 --> 02:35:24,880
there is any ownership at all of the

3832
02:35:24,880 --> 02:35:28,080
city based on what Shane's presented and

3833
02:35:28,080 --> 02:35:30,240
now my clearer understanding of

3834
02:35:30,240 --> 02:35:31,280
easements.

3835
02:35:31,280 --> 02:35:36,720
>> Okay. Okay. Let's um

3836
02:35:36,720 --> 02:35:38,000
Is it Katherine?

3837
02:35:38,000 --> 02:35:39,040
>> Yes.

3838
02:35:39,040 --> 02:35:40,800
Katherine, will you come up and please

3839
02:35:40,800 --> 02:35:44,319
state your full name and the street that

3840
02:35:44,319 --> 02:35:48,640
you live on and um she will be followed

3841
02:35:48,640 --> 02:35:50,160
by

3842
02:35:50,160 --> 02:35:53,680
Lovado or Laredo. Okay, sorry. Loredo

3843
02:35:53,680 --> 02:35:56,080
Warby.

3844
02:35:56,080 --> 02:35:56,640
>> Okay,

3845
02:35:56,640 --> 02:35:58,800
>> give you three minutes if you could put

3846
02:35:58,800 --> 02:35:59,439
three minutes on.

3847
02:35:59,439 --> 02:36:00,560
>> I will do it.

3848
02:36:00,560 --> 02:36:04,080
>> Thank you. And I'm grateful for all the

3849
02:36:04,080 --> 02:36:06,080
partial work that has been done on this.

3850
02:36:06,080 --> 02:36:08,560
But the uh title search did not go back

3851
02:36:08,560 --> 02:36:10,399
to the original owners. It only went

3852
02:36:10,399 --> 02:36:14,080
from 79 from Cutler's on. And I think if

3853
02:36:14,080 --> 02:36:15,600
we go back to Baitman, I have

3854
02:36:15,600 --> 02:36:18,800
appointments tomorrow down at the tax

3855
02:36:18,800 --> 02:36:21,920
commission and down at the recording

3856
02:36:21,920 --> 02:36:25,280
office Utah County. I spoke with the tax

3857
02:36:25,280 --> 02:36:27,120
commission because I I spoke with the

3858
02:36:27,120 --> 02:36:28,720
Sykes

3859
02:36:28,720 --> 02:36:32,880
today. They are the ones that are paying

3860
02:36:32,880 --> 02:36:35,840
taxes on the easement and have for 41

3861
02:36:35,840 --> 02:36:37,600
years.

3862
02:36:37,600 --> 02:36:41,200
So they have ownership on the easement.

3863
02:36:41,200 --> 02:36:43,040
And when I asked for any other

3864
02:36:43,040 --> 02:36:45,120
ownership, they said, "Well, there's

3865
02:36:45,120 --> 02:36:46,720
nothing."

3866
02:36:46,720 --> 02:36:48,800
And I said, "Is nobody paying taxes?"

3867
02:36:48,800 --> 02:36:50,160
And they said, "Well, there's an

3868
02:36:50,160 --> 02:36:52,800
exemption on it."

3869
02:36:52,800 --> 02:36:55,600
And what does that point a finger

3870
02:36:55,600 --> 02:36:57,680
toward?

3871
02:36:57,680 --> 02:37:00,560
Who's exempt? So, we're going to get to

3872
02:37:00,560 --> 02:37:03,120
the bottom of that. And it very well may

3873
02:37:03,120 --> 02:37:07,200
be the city who is exempt on that. We're

3874
02:37:07,200 --> 02:37:09,600
going to get to the bottom of this. And

3875
02:37:09,600 --> 02:37:11,200
that's all I have to say. So, you have

3876
02:37:11,200 --> 02:37:13,040
any questions, let me know.

3877
02:37:13,040 --> 02:37:14,720
>> Well, and I think to bring new council

3878
02:37:14,720 --> 02:37:17,600
members up to speed, um, the city is

3879
02:37:17,600 --> 02:37:19,280
exempt from paying taxes on property

3880
02:37:19,280 --> 02:37:23,030
they own.

3881
02:37:23,040 --> 02:37:24,560
» Thank you. That's very helpful. I

3882
02:37:24,560 --> 02:37:25,920
appreciate the research everyone's

3883
02:37:25,920 --> 02:37:26,800
doing.

3884
02:37:26,800 --> 02:37:28,960
>> How's it going? I'm Larredo Warby. I

3885
02:37:28,960 --> 02:37:30,399
actually don't live in Alpine. We just

3886
02:37:30,399 --> 02:37:32,160
have the piece of property to the north

3887
02:37:32,160 --> 02:37:35,600
that owns the easement. My family here,

3888
02:37:35,600 --> 02:37:37,280
uh, we've done title search recently

3889
02:37:37,280 --> 02:37:39,760
shows, our title shows me on the 16 and

3890
02:37:39,760 --> 02:37:43,600
a half, well, 16.539 ft north to the

3891
02:37:43,600 --> 02:37:46,479
south from that fence. So, the exemption

3892
02:37:46,479 --> 02:37:48,560
I think she's talking about is if you

3893
02:37:48,560 --> 02:37:50,399
look at our corner, southeast corner of

3894
02:37:50,399 --> 02:37:53,359
the lot, supposedly we're in a dispute

3895
02:37:53,359 --> 02:37:55,520
now with Metropolitan Water and they are

3896
02:37:55,520 --> 02:37:58,720
taxexempt on that specific parcel.

3897
02:37:58,720 --> 02:38:01,760
but not the outgoing part to the road.

3898
02:38:01,760 --> 02:38:03,120
And I can show you all the information

3899
02:38:03,120 --> 02:38:05,040
on my phone if need be.

3900
02:38:05,040 --> 02:38:07,439
>> So you guys are paying taxes on it then?

3901
02:38:07,439 --> 02:38:08,880
>> The whole portion. Correct. Even the

3902
02:38:08,880 --> 02:38:10,399
part Metropolitan owns.

3903
02:38:10,399 --> 02:38:12,319
>> So then what was she referring? I'm

3904
02:38:12,319 --> 02:38:13,600
sorry. Do you know what she was

3905
02:38:13,600 --> 02:38:14,160
referring to?

3906
02:38:14,160 --> 02:38:15,840
>> I'm not sure. We're paying taxes on one

3907
02:38:15,840 --> 02:38:18,160
point like 126 of an acre.

3908
02:38:18,160 --> 02:38:18,880
>> Okay. So

3909
02:38:18,880 --> 02:38:20,960
>> the whole piece.

3910
02:38:20,960 --> 02:38:25,030
>> Yeah. We own 16.539.

3911
02:38:25,040 --> 02:38:28,000
» Right away is 33 feet wide. So there's a

3912
02:38:28,000 --> 02:38:30,319
portion half of it's exempt.

3913
02:38:30,319 --> 02:38:32,000
>> So yeah, we own the north half of that

3914
02:38:32,000 --> 02:38:33,760
road from Alpine Highway to Alageney

3915
02:38:33,760 --> 02:38:34,080
Way.

3916
02:38:34,080 --> 02:38:36,479
>> Okay. And you're And so do you So that's

3917
02:38:36,479 --> 02:38:38,160
your access. You're driving

3918
02:38:38,160 --> 02:38:39,840
>> uh we don't use it as an access

3919
02:38:39,840 --> 02:38:42,640
currently. We uh you usually take the

3920
02:38:42,640 --> 02:38:45,840
culdeac from Alageney Way in. But we do

3921
02:38:45,840 --> 02:38:47,359
have that road also.

3922
02:38:47,359 --> 02:38:48,960
>> Do you have permission for Metropolitan

3923
02:38:48,960 --> 02:38:50,160
to access it through that way?

3924
02:38:50,160 --> 02:38:52,240
>> Well, that's the dispute. Our title

3925
02:38:52,240 --> 02:38:54,479
shows we own that land. They've showed

3926
02:38:54,479 --> 02:38:56,479
us a title from 46 that shows it was

3927
02:38:56,479 --> 02:38:58,240
sold to the US government and allocated

3928
02:38:58,240 --> 02:39:02,080
back to them. A little bit separate, but

3929
02:39:02,080 --> 02:39:04,080
they don't own the land from Alageney

3930
02:39:04,080 --> 02:39:05,760
Way out to the road. They own the

3931
02:39:05,760 --> 02:39:07,439
entrance of the driveway. And I can show

3932
02:39:07,439 --> 02:39:08,720
you the highlighted.

3933
02:39:08,720 --> 02:39:10,080
>> Yeah. If you click on the park,

3934
02:39:10,080 --> 02:39:11,040
actually,

3935
02:39:11,040 --> 02:39:12,479
>> click on the park

3936
02:39:12,479 --> 02:39:15,520
>> with that angle.

3937
02:39:15,520 --> 02:39:18,560
>> No, a little bit. Sorry.

3938
02:39:18,560 --> 02:39:20,720
>> To the right. You see that part where

3939
02:39:20,720 --> 02:39:22,399
it's cut across our property?

3940
02:39:22,399 --> 02:39:25,840
>> Mhm. That's the part that doesn't show

3941
02:39:25,840 --> 02:39:27,840
taxes,

3942
02:39:27,840 --> 02:39:30,319
but it it shows both ways us ownership.

3943
02:39:30,319 --> 02:39:32,160
But if you click on Metropolitan Waters

3944
02:39:32,160 --> 02:39:34,319
ownership, it doesn't show they own that

3945
02:39:34,319 --> 02:39:37,520
piece of land.

3946
02:39:37,520 --> 02:39:38,399
>> It's messy.

3947
02:39:38,399 --> 02:39:39,840
>> It's super messy. I've been dealing with

3948
02:39:39,840 --> 02:39:41,200
this for a month.

3949
02:39:41,200 --> 02:39:43,840
>> And uh what they're bringing up is one

3950
02:39:43,840 --> 02:39:45,680
of the reasons why we can help a lot of

3951
02:39:45,680 --> 02:39:47,439
residents, whether this falls into

3952
02:39:47,439 --> 02:39:49,200
private ownership, which we keep calling

3953
02:39:49,200 --> 02:39:51,520
it private, but no one knows who the

3954
02:39:51,520 --> 02:39:53,359
private owner is. So we don't even know

3955
02:39:53,359 --> 02:39:55,520
that. But I think the end result, no

3956
02:39:55,520 --> 02:40:00,000
matter what we arrive at, is

3957
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:02,399
stability in the area, our entrance,

3958
02:40:02,399 --> 02:40:06,080
clarity, and a path forward to actually

3959
02:40:06,080 --> 02:40:07,439
do something with it because right now

3960
02:40:07,439 --> 02:40:10,960
it's kind of the wild west. And uh and

3961
02:40:10,960 --> 02:40:13,359
one thing was brought up was money,

3962
02:40:13,359 --> 02:40:16,160
being worried about uh paying money for

3963
02:40:16,160 --> 02:40:18,640
this. We're talk we have a bid. Uh

3964
02:40:18,640 --> 02:40:20,479
Kaden, if you can bring it up. We we

3965
02:40:20,479 --> 02:40:21,600
have a bid. It's it's a we're talking

3966
02:40:21,600 --> 02:40:24,319
about a thousand dollars. We just in a

3967
02:40:24,319 --> 02:40:27,680
fail swoop added 500k onto a potential

3968
02:40:27,680 --> 02:40:29,439
bond need. We're talking about a

3969
02:40:29,439 --> 02:40:33,520
thousand bucks uh to hopefully clarify

3970
02:40:33,520 --> 02:40:36,319
a very pivotal place in our uh entrance.

3971
02:40:36,319 --> 02:40:38,080
That's that's why I felt like we get a

3972
02:40:38,080 --> 02:40:40,319
win-win out of this either way.

3973
02:40:40,319 --> 02:40:42,560
>> Can I ask I guess what's the confusion?

3974
02:40:42,560 --> 02:40:45,920
>> The confusion is um

3975
02:40:45,920 --> 02:40:48,640
who owns it and then what can be done

3976
02:40:48,640 --> 02:40:50,800
with it? I can provide the original deed

3977
02:40:50,800 --> 02:40:52,720
that shows I own that part.

3978
02:40:52,720 --> 02:40:55,280
>> I don't think they're discussing I think

3979
02:40:55,280 --> 02:40:57,840
that's not disputed. Yeah. Um I think

3980
02:40:57,840 --> 02:41:00,000
what they're talking about is the part

3981
02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:01,920
that's below it. The what is a

3982
02:41:01,920 --> 02:41:04,000
>> which you might also own. You might also

3983
02:41:04,000 --> 02:41:06,399
own. We're not sure. I'm not sure.

3984
02:41:06,399 --> 02:41:08,560
>> Well, I I'm positive we don't own any

3985
02:41:08,560 --> 02:41:10,319
past 16 1/2 ft.

3986
02:41:10,319 --> 02:41:11,920
>> Okay. So, what has happened is there's a

3987
02:41:11,920 --> 02:41:13,680
gap between your 16 and 1/2 ft and the

3988
02:41:13,680 --> 02:41:15,040
Williams family.

3989
02:41:15,040 --> 02:41:16,800
>> There's also a bunch of survey mistakes

3990
02:41:16,800 --> 02:41:19,280
right there if you guys aren't aware.

3991
02:41:19,280 --> 02:41:21,439
And uh so I don't think we're doing a

3992
02:41:21,439 --> 02:41:23,520
disservice to the community even if this

3993
02:41:23,520 --> 02:41:25,680
doesn't fall into our ownership. And

3994
02:41:25,680 --> 02:41:27,280
that the goal was never to own it.

3995
02:41:27,280 --> 02:41:30,319
Mayor, you remember the first goal was

3996
02:41:30,319 --> 02:41:32,319
the residents down there were asking for

3997
02:41:32,319 --> 02:41:34,319
some beautifification and some focus on

3998
02:41:34,319 --> 02:41:36,399
this. This this to me this what you're

3999
02:41:36,399 --> 02:41:37,600
looking at what the whole people are

4000
02:41:37,600 --> 02:41:39,920
looking at right now is the prime open

4001
02:41:39,920 --> 02:41:43,439
canvas of a future area of alpine which

4002
02:41:43,439 --> 02:41:46,399
can like rise like a dove. That that was

4003
02:41:46,399 --> 02:41:48,160
way too poetic.

4004
02:41:48,160 --> 02:41:50,080
This is an area that we can beautify.

4005
02:41:50,080 --> 02:41:52,080
This is an area that has potential. And

4006
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:54,960
I think it has not had the focus that it

4007
02:41:54,960 --> 02:41:56,800
can have. And this is, I think, just one

4008
02:41:56,800 --> 02:41:59,920
step of getting there. Um, where we can

4009
02:41:59,920 --> 02:42:02,160
begin making this like one of the

4010
02:42:02,160 --> 02:42:03,760
treasures of Alpine like so many other

4011
02:42:03,760 --> 02:42:06,319
areas are like Lambert Park or, you

4012
02:42:06,319 --> 02:42:09,920
know, where I live or um, uh, you know,

4013
02:42:09,920 --> 02:42:12,000
many other areas. And this is one of our

4014
02:42:12,000 --> 02:42:14,800
corridors. Uh, and I it's just a lot. I

4015
02:42:14,800 --> 02:42:16,479
would not be doing this if it was a

4016
02:42:16,479 --> 02:42:18,640
hundred grand. If it was 50 grand, if it

4017
02:42:18,640 --> 02:42:20,880
was 20 grand, I'd be like, "Wow, that's

4018
02:42:20,880 --> 02:42:23,200
kind of a lot to roll the dice." But

4019
02:42:23,200 --> 02:42:26,080
because it's $1,000 and and and and just

4020
02:42:26,080 --> 02:42:27,840
so you guys know, I'm not thinking much

4021
02:42:27,840 --> 02:42:29,439
more than that. Maybe a cap of three

4022
02:42:29,439 --> 02:42:31,920
grand, maybe a cap of five grand, we

4023
02:42:31,920 --> 02:42:33,840
might be able to find out what

4024
02:42:33,840 --> 02:42:35,920
>> Well, three and five isn't $1,000.

4025
02:42:35,920 --> 02:42:38,000
>> No, I know. I But but but you know how

4026
02:42:38,000 --> 02:42:39,840
these things go. They go like fire

4027
02:42:39,840 --> 02:42:40,880
department things. They just keep going

4028
02:42:40,880 --> 02:42:42,479
up and up and up and up. So, I like to

4029
02:42:42,479 --> 02:42:45,200
put caps on stuff. So, yes, we got a bid

4030
02:42:45,200 --> 02:42:47,760
for $1,000 for a title company to get to

4031
02:42:47,760 --> 02:42:50,720
the bottom of this, go past the 70s, uh,

4032
02:42:50,720 --> 02:42:53,920
the 1970s, and and like I mean, I talked

4033
02:42:53,920 --> 02:42:55,680
with Shane, I appreciate his research,

4034
02:42:55,680 --> 02:42:57,359
but I don't think even Shane knows the

4035
02:42:57,359 --> 02:42:58,080
answer to this.

4036
02:42:58,080 --> 02:43:00,560
>> Shane, so the parcel that is to the

4037
02:43:00,560 --> 02:43:03,520
south of Mr. Warby's property.

4038
02:43:03,520 --> 02:43:04,640
>> Yeah.

4039
02:43:04,640 --> 02:43:09,760
>> The deed was for that 16 ft, correct?

4040
02:43:09,760 --> 02:43:11,120
That's what I mapped out

4041
02:43:11,120 --> 02:43:13,840
>> that it it showed that the deed belonged

4042
02:43:13,840 --> 02:43:17,439
to private owners until 2003 and it kind

4043
02:43:17,439 --> 02:43:18,319
of dropped off.

4044
02:43:18,319 --> 02:43:18,880
>> Yeah.

4045
02:43:18,880 --> 02:43:20,880
>> Do we know has there been a precedent

4046
02:43:20,880 --> 02:43:24,640
legally, Steve? What are we looking at

4047
02:43:24,640 --> 02:43:30,389
legally? What's our legal claim to that?

4048
02:43:30,399 --> 02:43:32,720
Because the way I look at honestly, if I

4049
02:43:32,720 --> 02:43:35,760
felt like there was anything any deeds

4050
02:43:35,760 --> 02:43:37,439
in the past that said that belonged to

4051
02:43:37,439 --> 02:43:39,760
Alpine City, recorded deed.

4052
02:43:39,760 --> 02:43:41,600
>> The one we have wasn't included. Kaden,

4053
02:43:41,600 --> 02:43:42,880
if you can bring it up. I emailed it to

4054
02:43:42,880 --> 02:43:44,479
you in the share. We have one.

4055
02:43:44,479 --> 02:43:45,279
>> You have a deed.

4056
02:43:45,279 --> 02:43:46,880
>> Well, no, no, not a deed. I'm sorry. A

4057
02:43:46,880 --> 02:43:47,439
survey,

4058
02:43:47,439 --> 02:43:50,319
>> right? November.

4059
02:43:50,319 --> 02:43:52,800
There were a deed that said that parcel

4060
02:43:52,800 --> 02:43:54,240
belonged to Alpine City.

4061
02:43:54,240 --> 02:43:56,240
>> Oh, no

4062
02:43:56,240 --> 02:43:58,880
>> Yeah, a survey is a survey, but a deed

4063
02:43:58,880 --> 02:44:01,680
will say you own that property. We did

4064
02:44:01,680 --> 02:44:03,840
the survey, but we also Hold on just a

4065
02:44:03,840 --> 02:44:06,880
second. If we had anything like that,

4066
02:44:06,880 --> 02:44:09,040
then I would say, yeah, there's a

4067
02:44:09,040 --> 02:44:11,359
possibility that it could be ours. But

4068
02:44:11,359 --> 02:44:13,439
when we have several deeds that said it

4069
02:44:13,439 --> 02:44:17,040
was anyone but Alpine City, I don't see

4070
02:44:17,040 --> 02:44:18,960
why we would move forward with this

4071
02:44:18,960 --> 02:44:19,439
process.

4072
02:44:19,439 --> 02:44:20,880
>> Again, the goal is not necessarily just

4073
02:44:20,880 --> 02:44:23,439
to own it. The goal is to improve the

4074
02:44:23,439 --> 02:44:25,040
area. And whether it falls into someone

4075
02:44:25,040 --> 02:44:26,880
else's hands, the area ends up getting

4076
02:44:26,880 --> 02:44:28,960
improved like one way or another. Right

4077
02:44:28,960 --> 02:44:30,800
now, it's causing conflict. It's causing

4078
02:44:30,800 --> 02:44:31,920
confusion.

4079
02:44:31,920 --> 02:44:33,760
>> What's the conflict? So what happens is

4080
02:44:33,760 --> 02:44:35,439
people will go on the whole thing that

4081
02:44:35,439 --> 02:44:38,000
started this to go back to the genesis

4082
02:44:38,000 --> 02:44:40,319
is the folks from Rachel McTar Park

4083
02:44:40,319 --> 02:44:42,240
driving through it onto Alpine Highway

4084
02:44:42,240 --> 02:44:43,680
who might be from Highland might be from

4085
02:44:43,680 --> 02:44:46,080
anywhere else and using it as a through

4086
02:44:46,080 --> 02:44:48,880
road and neighbors saying this is not a

4087
02:44:48,880 --> 02:44:51,279
through road that that's what started

4088
02:44:51,279 --> 02:44:52,880
this and I said okay let's go check it

4089
02:44:52,880 --> 02:44:54,319
out. It looks like they're going through

4090
02:44:54,319 --> 02:44:57,920
someone's uh private property and so but

4091
02:44:57,920 --> 02:44:59,439
the people driving through it don't know

4092
02:44:59,439 --> 02:45:00,640
if it's a through road. They don't know

4093
02:45:00,640 --> 02:45:02,240
if it's a city road. The people living

4094
02:45:02,240 --> 02:45:03,680
by there don't have any leverage.

4095
02:45:03,680 --> 02:45:05,359
>> If you just put jersey barriers there,

4096
02:45:05,359 --> 02:45:06,319
that wouldn't

4097
02:45:06,319 --> 02:45:08,000
>> it was blocked off at one point.

4098
02:45:08,000 --> 02:45:10,399
Somebody moved the barriers. It had

4099
02:45:10,399 --> 02:45:10,800
barriers.

4100
02:45:10,800 --> 02:45:11,520
>> There were barriers.

4101
02:45:11,520 --> 02:45:14,000
>> Yeah, it was blocked off probably six.

4102
02:45:14,000 --> 02:45:15,600
>> And so like who has the authority to put

4103
02:45:15,600 --> 02:45:17,120
a barrier? No one knows. We don't know

4104
02:45:17,120 --> 02:45:18,240
if the city can. We don't know if a

4105
02:45:18,240 --> 02:45:19,359
private owner and who has the authority.

4106
02:45:19,359 --> 02:45:20,880
>> Do you know who did we put barriers

4107
02:45:20,880 --> 02:45:24,160
there or or was it Metropolitan or

4108
02:45:24,160 --> 02:45:25,920
>> Metropolitan doesn't own that quite

4109
02:45:25,920 --> 02:45:27,680
>> I think there were rocks there rather

4110
02:45:27,680 --> 02:45:29,359
than like a Jersey barrier, but I don't

4111
02:45:29,359 --> 02:45:31,040
know who moved them. I'm not even sure

4112
02:45:31,040 --> 02:45:33,439
who put them there to be honest.

4113
02:45:33,439 --> 02:45:36,160
>> Okay. How long ago were they? We don't

4114
02:45:36,160 --> 02:45:37,520
know when they were put there and when

4115
02:45:37,520 --> 02:45:38,720
they were removed.

4116
02:45:38,720 --> 02:45:40,080
>> Could have been when the development was

4117
02:45:40,080 --> 02:45:41,279
done. I'm not sure.

4118
02:45:41,279 --> 02:45:41,680
>> Okay.

4119
02:45:41,680 --> 02:45:43,840
>> They were there roughly four or five

4120
02:45:43,840 --> 02:45:46,240
years ago. And then they were there my

4121
02:45:46,240 --> 02:45:47,760
whole life before that.

4122
02:45:47,760 --> 02:45:49,840
>> Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate

4123
02:45:49,840 --> 02:45:50,319
your time.

4124
02:45:50,319 --> 02:45:52,240
>> Can I ask Steve a clarifying question?

4125
02:45:52,240 --> 02:45:52,960
>> Yes.

4126
02:45:52,960 --> 02:45:55,359
>> So, regarding deed versus who's been

4127
02:45:55,359 --> 02:45:57,520
paying the taxes,

4128
02:45:57,520 --> 02:45:59,600
what what does that look like? we have

4129
02:45:59,600 --> 02:46:02,960
deeds, but then we also have potentially

4130
02:46:02,960 --> 02:46:05,279
um either a tax abatement or maybe

4131
02:46:05,279 --> 02:46:07,439
someone else paying the taxes. So, how

4132
02:46:07,439 --> 02:46:11,279
does that determine ownership?

4133
02:46:11,279 --> 02:46:13,439
>> I'm not sure I know exactly what you're

4134
02:46:13,439 --> 02:46:17,120
asking. I would say that there's a

4135
02:46:17,120 --> 02:46:19,279
difference between

4136
02:46:19,279 --> 02:46:22,319
an interest in land like an easement,

4137
02:46:22,319 --> 02:46:24,160
either recorded or unrecorded,

4138
02:46:24,160 --> 02:46:27,200
prescriptive, and fee ownership. Fee

4139
02:46:27,200 --> 02:46:30,880
ownership entitles the owner to do what

4140
02:46:30,880 --> 02:46:33,439
they want with legally with that

4141
02:46:33,439 --> 02:46:36,399
property. And so if it's owned by

4142
02:46:36,399 --> 02:46:38,160
private owners, they could block that

4143
02:46:38,160 --> 02:46:39,760
off. For example, if people are

4144
02:46:39,760 --> 02:46:42,160
trespassing over their property.

4145
02:46:42,160 --> 02:46:44,080
>> Um

4146
02:46:44,080 --> 02:46:46,560
we haven't seen at least I haven't seen

4147
02:46:46,560 --> 02:46:48,720
to this point anything that indicates

4148
02:46:48,720 --> 02:46:51,600
that the city has fee ownership. There

4149
02:46:51,600 --> 02:46:54,160
may be a survey that makes an assumption

4150
02:46:54,160 --> 02:46:55,840
about ownership, but that doesn't

4151
02:46:55,840 --> 02:46:58,000
establish ownership.

4152
02:46:58,000 --> 02:46:58,640
>> And so,

4153
02:46:58,640 --> 02:47:01,520
>> Steve, could it be I mean, we have a

4154
02:47:01,520 --> 02:47:04,240
like we all agree we have a sewer there,

4155
02:47:04,240 --> 02:47:06,960
but we have no recorded easement. Am I

4156
02:47:06,960 --> 02:47:09,200
correct?

4157
02:47:09,200 --> 02:47:10,080
>> Is that correct?

4158
02:47:10,080 --> 02:47:12,319
>> That's what I understand. So, so could

4159
02:47:12,319 --> 02:47:15,840
this just be that cities inadvertently

4160
02:47:15,840 --> 02:47:18,560
have just failed to address this and

4161
02:47:18,560 --> 02:47:20,160
we're finally arriving when it can be

4162
02:47:20,160 --> 02:47:22,000
addressed?

4163
02:47:22,000 --> 02:47:23,359
Like this is what it looks like. It

4164
02:47:23,359 --> 02:47:24,640
doesn't look like it's been owned and

4165
02:47:24,640 --> 02:47:26,160
passed back and forth and that people

4166
02:47:26,160 --> 02:47:28,399
had it under I mean from what we can see

4167
02:47:28,399 --> 02:47:31,040
it looks like it's just been kind of

4168
02:47:31,040 --> 02:47:32,800
lost or it's kind of been not ever

4169
02:47:32,800 --> 02:47:34,399
addressed and it's been kind of a part

4170
02:47:34,399 --> 02:47:36,399
that hasn't been um otherwise why

4171
02:47:36,399 --> 02:47:37,840
wouldn't we have an easement on it

4172
02:47:37,840 --> 02:47:39,840
that's recorded? I've seen this happen

4173
02:47:39,840 --> 02:47:43,279
multiple times where maybe there was a

4174
02:47:43,279 --> 02:47:45,680
typo on the tide of the section corner

4175
02:47:45,680 --> 02:47:48,640
in the legal description. So, it could

4176
02:47:48,640 --> 02:47:51,120
be a mile or a half mile away to the

4177
02:47:51,120 --> 02:47:53,840
next section corner and so it puts the

4178
02:47:53,840 --> 02:47:56,240
legal description in the wrong place.

4179
02:47:56,240 --> 02:47:58,319
So, when you do a search of title on

4180
02:47:58,319 --> 02:48:04,720
this property, it doesn't show up. Um I know the one of the main sewer lines

4181
02:48:04,720 --> 02:48:06,720
of the city that goes through Montela,

4182
02:48:06,720 --> 02:48:11,040
there's no easement and I believe that's

4183
02:48:11,040 --> 02:48:16,399
what would have happened there because I saw an I still remember this years ago

4184
02:48:16,399 --> 02:48:19,760
I saw a deed or an easement description

4185
02:48:19,760 --> 02:48:22,800
that was recorded that was like that

4186
02:48:22,800 --> 02:48:24,880
and it was just to the wrong section

4187
02:48:24,880 --> 02:48:28,560
corner. Um, typically when that happens,

4188
02:48:28,560 --> 02:48:30,640
the county will send a notice of

4189
02:48:30,640 --> 02:48:32,560
discrepancy back to the city if they

4190
02:48:32,560 --> 02:48:34,800
catch it so that they can correct it,

4191
02:48:34,800 --> 02:48:37,840
but that that can get missed as well.

4192
02:48:37,840 --> 02:48:40,479
>> Was I do we have other residents we can

4193
02:48:40,479 --> 02:48:42,479
hear from or can we make a motion? I'd

4194
02:48:42,479 --> 02:48:43,600
be happy to make

4195
02:48:43,600 --> 02:48:45,040
>> Could I ask a follow-up question to

4196
02:48:45,040 --> 02:48:46,399
Shane and Steve, please?

4197
02:48:46,399 --> 02:48:48,640
>> Yes. So, Sha Shane, if that if that were

4198
02:48:48,640 --> 02:48:51,840
the the case in this instance,

4199
02:48:51,840 --> 02:48:54,479
um Shane and Steve, what would you think

4200
02:48:54,479 --> 02:48:56,000
would be the like who would you think

4201
02:48:56,000 --> 02:49:01,429
would be the likely owners of this strip

4202
02:49:01,439 --> 02:49:05,040
and how would it be resolved?

4203
02:49:05,040 --> 02:49:07,359
>> I mean, I'll let Shane answer that

4204
02:49:07,359 --> 02:49:08,800
because he's done the research.

4205
02:49:08,800 --> 02:49:11,439
>> I've looked at the deeds more than I

4206
02:49:11,439 --> 02:49:13,279
want to admit. Um,

4207
02:49:13,279 --> 02:49:14,960
>> and we appreciate the research.

4208
02:49:14,960 --> 02:49:17,600
>> And I'm trying to remember who the owner

4209
02:49:17,600 --> 02:49:20,720
was in the 2003 to 2004. Let me just

4210
02:49:20,720 --> 02:49:22,000
grab my phone.

4211
02:49:22,000 --> 02:49:23,359
>> But it's got to be one of those parcels

4212
02:49:23,359 --> 02:49:24,880
that abuted, I would imagine. Right.

4213
02:49:24,880 --> 02:49:26,560
>> I would think so. I mean, I even noticed

4214
02:49:26,560 --> 02:49:29,359
on on the stamps that are put on some of

4215
02:49:29,359 --> 02:49:31,359
these deeds that they went through title

4216
02:49:31,359 --> 02:49:35,990
companies and so

4217
02:49:36,000 --> 02:49:38,240
I don't know. So let's assume it's one

4218
02:49:38,240 --> 02:49:40,000
of the two abuing properties or one of

4219
02:49:40,000 --> 02:49:42,640
the I guess would be two or maybe even

4220
02:49:42,640 --> 02:49:44,160
>> it would just be the two

4221
02:49:44,160 --> 02:49:46,080
>> if it's a gap it would be the two

4222
02:49:46,080 --> 02:49:48,080
properties the one to the north and the

4223
02:49:48,080 --> 02:49:49,760
one to the south would be

4224
02:49:49,760 --> 02:49:50,640
>> yeah so if let's

4225
02:49:50,640 --> 02:49:54,000
>> halfway halfway to the pick up to the

4226
02:49:54,000 --> 02:49:55,600
middle of the lane

4227
02:49:55,600 --> 02:49:57,760
>> right so that's just that's the most

4228
02:49:57,760 --> 02:50:00,479
likely scenario it seems like so if if

4229
02:50:00,479 --> 02:50:02,640
that's the solution or if that's the

4230
02:50:02,640 --> 02:50:05,920
resolution then how likely it is that

4231
02:50:05,920 --> 02:50:08,880
those owners ers would grant the city

4232
02:50:08,880 --> 02:50:11,040
the ability to to make this trail or to

4233
02:50:11,040 --> 02:50:12,240
make this improvement.

4234
02:50:12,240 --> 02:50:14,000
>> They are both here. We can ask them,

4235
02:50:14,000 --> 02:50:14,640
>> right? Yeah.

4236
02:50:14,640 --> 02:50:17,120
>> So, I'm looking at this road, this dirt

4237
02:50:17,120 --> 02:50:19,040
road, at least according to Utah County

4238
02:50:19,040 --> 02:50:22,240
parcel maps. And so, it looks like on

4239
02:50:22,240 --> 02:50:25,439
the east end, it belongs to Desireette

4240
02:50:25,439 --> 02:50:29,200
Livestock LLC. So, you've got the Sykes

4241
02:50:29,200 --> 02:50:32,319
that own the first 16 feet, 16 plus

4242
02:50:32,319 --> 02:50:33,200
feet,

4243
02:50:33,200 --> 02:50:36,160
>> and then just south of it

4244
02:50:36,160 --> 02:50:38,160
And then south of it, yeah, you got

4245
02:50:38,160 --> 02:50:40,479
desert livestock that overlaps that and

4246
02:50:40,479 --> 02:50:44,240
then goes beyond the Sykes cherry stem.

4247
02:50:44,240 --> 02:50:46,960
It looks like another 16ish feet which

4248
02:50:46,960 --> 02:50:49,359
covers that dirt road. And then if you

4249
02:50:49,359 --> 02:50:51,520
go east,

4250
02:50:51,520 --> 02:50:54,960
can you go east, Kaden? So that's April

4251
02:50:54,960 --> 02:50:57,840
Cooper who also goes and owns that dirt

4252
02:50:57,840 --> 02:51:00,399
road. And then the psyches still have

4253
02:51:00,399 --> 02:51:03,359
that cherry stem.

4254
02:51:03,359 --> 02:51:04,880
And then you've got

4255
02:51:04,880 --> 02:51:05,600
>> I'm sorry.

4256
02:51:05,600 --> 02:51:07,279
>> There's a if you look at the top of the

4257
02:51:07,279 --> 02:51:09,439
map, all four of those lots are skewed

4258
02:51:09,439 --> 02:51:11,760
down like 30 feet. So there's a road

4259
02:51:11,760 --> 02:51:14,160
across the top. All four of those lots

4260
02:51:14,160 --> 02:51:16,399
to the west of ours

4261
02:51:16,399 --> 02:51:18,800
>> are all slid down by accident by survey.

4262
02:51:18,800 --> 02:51:19,760
>> And one thing, Mayor, I

4263
02:51:19,760 --> 02:51:21,600
>> talked to Nicole, the mapper, the county

4264
02:51:21,600 --> 02:51:23,200
mapper about it. It's

4265
02:51:23,200 --> 02:51:24,880
>> the mapper told me the same thing that

4266
02:51:24,880 --> 02:51:26,960
this isn't actually accurate

4267
02:51:26,960 --> 02:51:28,960
>> for the image below.

4268
02:51:28,960 --> 02:51:30,240
>> They're all supposed to be slid up to

4269
02:51:30,240 --> 02:51:32,720
that fence line. Yeah, it's it's it's

4270
02:51:32,720 --> 02:51:37,439
slid from the satellite image,

4271
02:51:37,439 --> 02:51:39,920
>> but pretty close. Pretty close.

4272
02:51:39,920 --> 02:51:42,960
>> Yeah. I just wanted to make sure that made sense.

4273
02:51:42,960 --> 02:51:46,720
>> So So this I'll give you my educated

4274
02:51:46,720 --> 02:51:49,200
reasons why I think Cutlers probably own

4275
02:51:49,200 --> 02:51:51,359
it. So there was the Cutler survey in

4276
02:51:51,359 --> 02:51:53,120
1996

4277
02:51:53,120 --> 02:51:55,200
that was done by Dudley Associates that

4278
02:51:55,200 --> 02:51:57,279
shows this property.

4279
02:51:57,279 --> 02:52:02,080
Um there's on the Cutler deed uh in 2003

4280
02:52:02,080 --> 02:52:04,800
from Cutler to Johnson.

4281
02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:07,439
Uh

4282
02:52:07,439 --> 02:52:09,920
that strip shows up on there two rods

4283
02:52:09,920 --> 02:52:12,560
wide, so 33 feet.

4284
02:52:12,560 --> 02:52:14,960
In 2004, there's a corrective warranty

4285
02:52:14,960 --> 02:52:18,640
deed from Cutler to Johnson that cut

4286
02:52:18,640 --> 02:52:20,319
that cherry stem out.

4287
02:52:20,319 --> 02:52:23,439
>> Do we know why? There's no there's no

4288
02:52:23,439 --> 02:52:26,960
narrative of why that's there, but

4289
02:52:26,960 --> 02:52:28,880
>> it carries through the deeds, all

4290
02:52:28,880 --> 02:52:31,600
warranty deeds, but one

4291
02:52:31,600 --> 02:52:33,600
>> um up to that point.

4292
02:52:33,600 --> 02:52:34,080
>> So,

4293
02:52:34,080 --> 02:52:36,479
>> and where the Johnson's now? So, it went

4294
02:52:36,479 --> 02:52:38,080
from the Johnson's to the No, it went

4295
02:52:38,080 --> 02:52:39,680
from Cutler to the Johnson's.

4296
02:52:39,680 --> 02:52:41,200
>> Yes.

4297
02:52:41,200 --> 02:52:43,680
>> Chance couple more times and then the

4298
02:52:43,680 --> 02:52:44,880
property was developed.

4299
02:52:44,880 --> 02:52:46,160
>> Okay.

4300
02:52:46,160 --> 02:52:46,800
>> Yeah.

4301
02:52:46,800 --> 02:52:48,960
>> Okie do. So, we've got Okay, we've had

4302
02:52:48,960 --> 02:52:51,840
two comments. We've got April Cooper who

4303
02:52:51,840 --> 02:52:54,960
is still

4304
02:52:54,960 --> 02:52:55,439
>> um

4305
02:52:55,439 --> 02:52:57,760
>> Can I make a comment?

4306
02:52:57,760 --> 02:52:59,520
>> This is the Williams who live on the

4307
02:52:59,520 --> 02:53:01,760
property bel uh to the south of it.

4308
02:53:01,760 --> 02:53:03,920
>> This is I'm Philip Williams. I'm the one

4309
02:53:03,920 --> 02:53:06,960
that owns a property south of this

4310
02:53:06,960 --> 02:53:08,479
rideway.

4311
02:53:08,479 --> 02:53:13,040
I was born and raised there. I know how

4312
02:53:13,040 --> 02:53:15,760
the ownership went

4313
02:53:15,760 --> 02:53:20,399
and it where McTar Park is all the way

4314
02:53:20,399 --> 02:53:25,279
up to Bradock Lane and back to Willard's

4315
02:53:25,279 --> 02:53:28,319
place and then back and then down that

4316
02:53:28,319 --> 02:53:33,279
rideway all went to that same property

4317
02:53:33,279 --> 02:53:36,560
and Sam Baitman

4318
02:53:36,560 --> 02:53:41,920
went had it before us and Um, he sold

4319
02:53:41,920 --> 02:53:46,640
our three acres to my dad.

4320
02:53:46,640 --> 02:53:48,880
And so I know Sam Baitman was the

4321
02:53:48,880 --> 02:53:52,640
original owner. Well, this uh was what

4322
02:53:52,640 --> 02:53:55,120
it Desert Livestock or whatever it was

4323
02:53:55,120 --> 02:53:59,439
uh was uh Wayne Miller, Dell Jinx, and D

4324
02:53:59,439 --> 02:54:02,080
Jinx owned that. They owned that whole

4325
02:54:02,080 --> 02:54:05,840
thing. Same with Allan Cutler when he

4326
02:54:05,840 --> 02:54:09,279
bought it. So if you look at Alagany,

4327
02:54:09,279 --> 02:54:11,840
they um

4328
02:54:11,840 --> 02:54:15,439
developed that property from the east to

4329
02:54:15,439 --> 02:54:18,880
the west. Well, when Leland Johnson

4330
02:54:18,880 --> 02:54:21,359
purchased that ground,

4331
02:54:21,359 --> 02:54:23,279
um he knew that he couldn't do nothing

4332
02:54:23,279 --> 02:54:26,399
with the where McTar Park is because of

4333
02:54:26,399 --> 02:54:29,760
the metropolitan going through there. So

4334
02:54:29,760 --> 02:54:33,439
he donated that to Alpine City. Well,

4335
02:54:33,439 --> 02:54:38,240
that Mcder park goes with that uh right

4336
02:54:38,240 --> 02:54:42,479
away and so that

4337
02:54:42,479 --> 02:54:46,560
should say that uh it goes to the city.

4338
02:54:46,560 --> 02:54:47,120
>> You're saying

4339
02:54:47,120 --> 02:54:48,160
>> what year was that?

4340
02:54:48,160 --> 02:54:48,560
>> So

4341
02:54:48,560 --> 02:54:50,319
>> he's saying when the donation happened.

4342
02:54:50,319 --> 02:54:52,160
>> So no disrespect for Mr. Williams, but

4343
02:54:52,160 --> 02:54:53,920
that's not actually how the city got the

4344
02:54:53,920 --> 02:54:56,240
park property. The park property came

4345
02:54:56,240 --> 02:54:57,920
through the recording of the subdivision

4346
02:54:57,920 --> 02:54:59,600
plat

4347
02:54:59,600 --> 02:55:02,319
that was um

4348
02:55:02,319 --> 02:55:03,680
What was the name of that plat? Will you

4349
02:55:03,680 --> 02:55:05,680
click on that? Uh

4350
02:55:05,680 --> 02:55:07,279
>> was it a PRD or

4351
02:55:07,279 --> 02:55:08,080
>> Yes, it was.

4352
02:55:08,080 --> 02:55:09,600
>> Okay. That's how we got the park.

4353
02:55:09,600 --> 02:55:12,880
>> Yes. And and the strip of property that

4354
02:55:12,880 --> 02:55:14,399
goes through the middle of the park. So,

4355
02:55:14,399 --> 02:55:18,319
we own either corner northeast and

4356
02:55:18,319 --> 02:55:20,560
southwest, but the strip going on the

4357
02:55:20,560 --> 02:55:23,200
angle up through the middle.

4358
02:55:23,200 --> 02:55:27,200
>> We have an agreement with Metro Water.

4359
02:55:27,200 --> 02:55:29,200
There was a fee. The developer had to

4360
02:55:29,200 --> 02:55:32,160
pay the fee. The agreement's good for

4361
02:55:32,160 --> 02:55:35,040
it's like 25 years and then after that

4362
02:55:35,040 --> 02:55:37,680
we have to as the city renegotiate and

4363
02:55:37,680 --> 02:55:40,240
pay a fee to use that for the park. But

4364
02:55:40,240 --> 02:55:42,080
we can't plant a tree in it. We can't

4365
02:55:42,080 --> 02:55:45,279
put a fence across it. It's very

4366
02:55:45,279 --> 02:55:47,920
limited. We can basically have grass on

4367
02:55:47,920 --> 02:55:50,880
it and our trail.

4368
02:55:50,880 --> 02:55:52,720
>> But that's that's how the city acquired

4369
02:55:52,720 --> 02:55:54,560
that property and that that will show up

4370
02:55:54,560 --> 02:55:57,520
on the subdivision plan the dedication

4371
02:55:57,520 --> 02:56:00,960
of it. and say with Metropolitan,

4372
02:56:00,960 --> 02:56:04,000
it was always a gentleman's agreement

4373
02:56:04,000 --> 02:56:06,479
back in the day where you could farm it

4374
02:56:06,479 --> 02:56:08,800
or you could graze it, but you could not

4375
02:56:08,800 --> 02:56:12,640
build on it or plant trees on it.

4376
02:56:12,640 --> 02:56:14,080
>> Okay. Thank you, sir.

4377
02:56:14,080 --> 02:56:15,600
>> And and they're past the gentleman's

4378
02:56:15,600 --> 02:56:17,680
agreement now. They're very they're very

4379
02:56:17,680 --> 02:56:18,080
picky.

4380
02:56:18,080 --> 02:56:18,640
>> Yeah.

4381
02:56:18,640 --> 02:56:20,720
>> I don't want to muddy the waters, but um

4382
02:56:20,720 --> 02:56:22,880
I've been looking. So the the part that

4383
02:56:22,880 --> 02:56:25,359
we're talking about is down here south.

4384
02:56:25,359 --> 02:56:28,000
>> But if you go right and if you click on

4385
02:56:28,000 --> 02:56:29,920
it like nothing comes up, right? But

4386
02:56:29,920 --> 02:56:32,720
keep going up and No, I'm sorry. Go up.

4387
02:56:32,720 --> 02:56:34,800
There's a little corner where where

4388
02:56:34,800 --> 02:56:36,319
there's a strip that goes at the angle.

4389
02:56:36,319 --> 02:56:38,000
That's actually the US government. Look

4390
02:56:38,000 --> 02:56:39,600
at that. The strip that goes through

4391
02:56:39,600 --> 02:56:42,080
that. Sorry. Right there. That actually

4392
02:56:42,080 --> 02:56:44,319
says United States of America. And

4393
02:56:44,319 --> 02:56:46,080
that's what my title friend was telling

4394
02:56:46,080 --> 02:56:48,640
me that everything eventually goes back

4395
02:56:48,640 --> 02:56:52,720
to if it doesn't isn't owned by one of

4396
02:56:52,720 --> 02:56:55,279
us or a municipality or some it'll

4397
02:56:55,279 --> 02:56:56,560
always go back to the United States

4398
02:56:56,560 --> 02:56:58,880
government. But then keep going just

4399
02:56:58,880 --> 02:57:00,319
north of that. There's that other strip.

4400
02:57:00,319 --> 02:57:01,760
Look, you click on that. There's nothing

4401
02:57:01,760 --> 02:57:05,920
there either. No. No. Right below. Right. Sorry. There's a strip

4402
02:57:05,920 --> 02:57:07,439
that's parallel to the one we're talking

4403
02:57:07,439 --> 02:57:09,200
about.

4404
02:57:09,200 --> 02:57:11,680
>> Sorry. Go. A strip that goes east to

4405
02:57:11,680 --> 02:57:13,840
west. Yeah. Right there. the horizontal.

4406
02:57:13,840 --> 02:57:14,319
>> Yeah,

4407
02:57:14,319 --> 02:57:19,269
>> that's just everything skewed south.

4408
02:57:19,279 --> 02:57:23,040
» The map if you look over our property.

4409
02:57:23,040 --> 02:57:24,720
>> Okay. Sorry. Okay, guys.

4410
02:57:24,720 --> 02:57:26,399
>> Okay. So, clicking on the map is not

4411
02:57:26,399 --> 02:57:28,240
that informationational is what you're

4412
02:57:28,240 --> 02:57:28,640
telling me.

4413
02:57:28,640 --> 02:57:28,960
>> Yes.

4414
02:57:28,960 --> 02:57:30,880
>> Just to help you that US government

4415
02:57:30,880 --> 02:57:33,680
part, they allocated all that land in

4416
02:57:33,680 --> 02:57:35,920
2006 to Metropolitan Water Company. I

4417
02:57:35,920 --> 02:57:37,120
have the document if needed.

4418
02:57:37,120 --> 02:57:37,920
>> That's correct.

4419
02:57:37,920 --> 02:57:38,399
>> Okay.

4420
02:57:38,399 --> 02:57:39,040
>> Thank you. Thank you.

4421
02:57:39,040 --> 02:57:41,120
>> Their surveyor came in and met with us.

4422
02:57:41,120 --> 02:57:43,760
>> Okay. You guys have one more comment.

4423
02:57:43,760 --> 02:57:46,080
April Cooper, last person to comment and

4424
02:57:46,080 --> 02:57:47,279
that is going to be it.

4425
02:57:47,279 --> 02:57:48,160
>> But

4426
02:57:48,160 --> 02:57:50,880
>> not sorry to interrupt, but it is 9:00.

4427
02:57:50,880 --> 02:57:52,720
>> Okay, hold on just a sec. Can I have a

4428
02:57:52,720 --> 02:57:54,000
motion to extend?

4429
02:57:54,000 --> 02:57:56,160
>> Um, I make a motion

4430
02:57:56,160 --> 02:57:58,319
>> to extend

4431
02:57:58,319 --> 02:58:01,840
the meeting. Do I have to say a time?

4432
02:58:01,840 --> 02:58:02,640
>> Please do.

4433
02:58:02,640 --> 02:58:04,560
>> Or until the business is done.

4434
02:58:04,560 --> 02:58:06,399
>> Till the business of the city has been

4435
02:58:06,399 --> 02:58:07,200
completed.

4436
02:58:07,200 --> 02:58:10,479
>> I'll second that.

4437
02:58:10,479 --> 02:58:12,319
>> Okay. It's been moved and seconded. Do

4438
02:58:12,319 --> 02:58:13,920
we have to do a roll call for this? We

4439
02:58:13,920 --> 02:58:16,399
don't. Do we? All in favor?

4440
02:58:16,399 --> 02:58:17,439
>> I.

4441
02:58:17,439 --> 02:58:18,720
>> Any opposed?

4442
02:58:18,720 --> 02:58:19,920
>> Nay.

4443
02:58:19,920 --> 02:58:20,800
>> Okay.

4444
02:58:20,800 --> 02:58:22,640
>> Come on.

4445
02:58:22,640 --> 02:58:23,279
It's fine.

4446
02:58:23,279 --> 02:58:24,800
>> Okay. If you could state your name.

4447
02:58:24,800 --> 02:58:28,080
>> April Cooper 1136 B Circle. I do own

4448
02:58:28,080 --> 02:58:30,720
Desert Livestock LLC,

4449
02:58:30,720 --> 02:58:32,960
which is a piece of land that runs right

4450
02:58:32,960 --> 02:58:35,600
there. Thank you. From um east to west.

4451
02:58:35,600 --> 02:58:37,040
And then behind it, I have a piece of

4452
02:58:37,040 --> 02:58:41,439
land that runs north south. um that

4453
02:58:41,439 --> 02:58:44,640
lane, that little dirt road on a 1990

4454
02:58:44,640 --> 02:58:48,000
maybe three survey was um access lane.

4455
02:58:48,000 --> 02:58:50,240
So I use it to get from the alpine

4456
02:58:50,240 --> 02:58:52,800
highway to that piece that runs north

4457
02:58:52,800 --> 02:58:57,040
south and um

4458
02:58:57,040 --> 02:58:58,720
the

4459
02:58:58,720 --> 02:59:01,600
Cypes land runs there also. And then

4460
02:59:01,600 --> 02:59:04,720
there's potentially a couple crossing

4461
02:59:04,720 --> 02:59:07,200
with the way it lands on the map and

4462
02:59:07,200 --> 02:59:09,840
then Phil Williams is below it. I think

4463
02:59:09,840 --> 02:59:12,399
public funds should be used for public

4464
02:59:12,399 --> 02:59:16,479
good. Um, I'm disappointed and I would

4465
02:59:16,479 --> 02:59:19,040
request as a citizen that you vote yes

4466
02:59:19,040 --> 02:59:22,560
to get us water so that we can drink and

4467
02:59:22,560 --> 02:59:25,439
be healthy over trying to figure out how

4468
02:59:25,439 --> 02:59:28,080
to put a trail on private property on

4469
02:59:28,080 --> 02:59:30,800
people's lands. Or I think the bigger

4470
02:59:30,800 --> 02:59:32,640
issue that you're really trying to do is

4471
02:59:32,640 --> 02:59:34,560
block people from driving down it and

4472
02:59:34,560 --> 02:59:36,240
from accessing their property. I think

4473
02:59:36,240 --> 02:59:38,640
that's really the secret agenda that's

4474
02:59:38,640 --> 02:59:40,479
not really out here. So, I'm not going

4475
02:59:40,479 --> 02:59:42,720
to stop driving on it. have owned it for

4476
02:59:42,720 --> 02:59:44,399
six years and the Kiche has had it for

4477
02:59:44,399 --> 02:59:47,680
50 years before that. So there is a

4478
02:59:47,680 --> 02:59:51,600
precedence in those two combined. Also

4479
02:59:51,600 --> 02:59:54,080
just because Willard or just because

4480
02:59:54,080 --> 02:59:56,240
sometimes we come in from Alagany does

4481
02:59:56,240 --> 02:59:58,080
not mean we have permission to and there

4482
02:59:58,080 --> 03:00:00,560
are sometimes some battles with metro.

4483
03:00:00,560 --> 03:00:02,720
So, if the city tries to cut off the

4484
03:00:02,720 --> 03:00:04,800
sites or cut off us from coming off the

4485
03:00:04,800 --> 03:00:06,560
Alpine Highway, which we do have drive

4486
03:00:06,560 --> 03:00:08,000
approaches coming off the Alpine

4487
03:00:08,000 --> 03:00:10,560
Highway, um you'd first have to get

4488
03:00:10,560 --> 03:00:13,120
permission from from Metro if you would

4489
03:00:13,120 --> 03:00:14,399
if you're going to try to do that. So,

4490
03:00:14,399 --> 03:00:17,200
there's a different axis. Can someone

4491
03:00:17,200 --> 03:00:19,200
highlight the piece that Metro owns?

4492
03:00:19,200 --> 03:00:20,240
That big piece

4493
03:00:20,240 --> 03:00:21,120
>> diagonal.

4494
03:00:21,120 --> 03:00:23,520
>> The big diagonal piece. Thank you. So

4495
03:00:23,520 --> 03:00:26,399
basically in the little where Alagany

4496
03:00:26,399 --> 03:00:29,200
the culde-sac ends there's still a

4497
03:00:29,200 --> 03:00:32,479
triangle there that Metro owns. Are you

4498
03:00:32,479 --> 03:00:34,160
saying that you're trying to put a trail

4499
03:00:34,160 --> 03:00:36,080
on Metro's land too?

4500
03:00:36,080 --> 03:00:37,120
>> Are you asking me?

4501
03:00:37,120 --> 03:00:37,520
>> Yes.

4502
03:00:37,520 --> 03:00:38,080
>> Uh

4503
03:00:38,080 --> 03:00:39,439
>> because otherwise you're going to have

4504
03:00:39,439 --> 03:00:41,760
asphalt and then you're going to jump

4505
03:00:41,760 --> 03:00:44,399
over to the land that you think possibly

4506
03:00:44,399 --> 03:00:46,160
the city might own, but you've got a

4507
03:00:46,160 --> 03:00:48,800
chunk in there that Metro owns. So it

4508
03:00:48,800 --> 03:00:50,319
sounds like you're pushing your trail

4509
03:00:50,319 --> 03:00:52,000
onto Metro too. So

4510
03:00:52,000 --> 03:00:53,200
>> without their permission.

4511
03:00:53,200 --> 03:00:55,760
>> I love your everything you said that. So

4512
03:00:55,760 --> 03:00:58,319
the the goal is not secret. It's it is

4513
03:00:58,319 --> 03:00:59,920
to quiet it down. It is

4514
03:00:59,920 --> 03:01:02,800
>> to stop cars. Quiet or to stop drive

4515
03:01:02,800 --> 03:01:03,439
cars driving?

4516
03:01:03,439 --> 03:01:05,279
>> I would equate those. Yes. To stop cars.

4517
03:01:05,279 --> 03:01:07,359
>> No. Quiet's like if I run down there and

4518
03:01:07,359 --> 03:01:09,279
I play a boom box on my shoulder and I'm

4519
03:01:09,279 --> 03:01:10,640
really loud. That's different than

4520
03:01:10,640 --> 03:01:12,319
driving a car. Is it to stop the

4521
03:01:12,319 --> 03:01:14,479
vehicles from accessing and landlock

4522
03:01:14,479 --> 03:01:14,880
them?

4523
03:01:14,880 --> 03:01:17,520
>> Yes. But but but it is not to try to

4524
03:01:17,520 --> 03:01:19,520
block your land. We are trying I would I

4525
03:01:19,520 --> 03:01:21,600
told you I want to find another access

4526
03:01:21,600 --> 03:01:23,120
or make a way for you to be able to

4527
03:01:23,120 --> 03:01:23,920
still get to your property.

4528
03:01:23,920 --> 03:01:25,279
>> Okay. So I would request that your

4529
03:01:25,279 --> 03:01:27,120
motion tonight be to figure out another

4530
03:01:27,120 --> 03:01:29,120
access and get permission from Metro

4531
03:01:29,120 --> 03:01:30,880
before you start spending city funds on

4532
03:01:30,880 --> 03:01:32,960
a title search because you could do your

4533
03:01:32,960 --> 03:01:34,160
title search and you're probably going

4534
03:01:34,160 --> 03:01:35,920
to end up finding that private property

4535
03:01:35,920 --> 03:01:38,560
owners own it. And even if Alpine City

4536
03:01:38,560 --> 03:01:41,279
owns it, you can't landlock me anyway.

4537
03:01:41,279 --> 03:01:42,640
>> We don't I don't want to. You might as

4538
03:01:42,640 --> 03:01:44,880
well go to Metro for free first before

4539
03:01:44,880 --> 03:01:47,200
you spend city funds, our tax dollars on

4540
03:01:47,200 --> 03:01:47,840
a title search,

4541
03:01:47,840 --> 03:01:51,920
>> right? No, I respect the tax dollars. I don't want to spend a lot of money.

4542
03:01:51,920 --> 03:01:54,640
It's a,000 to $3,000 to do this.

4543
03:01:54,640 --> 03:01:56,000
>> But I'm requesting that you get

4544
03:01:56,000 --> 03:01:59,439
permission from Metro first before you

4545
03:01:59,439 --> 03:02:01,760
spend money on the title search. I would

4546
03:02:01,760 --> 03:02:06,080
be happy to add that into the motion and I don't want to block you from your

4547
03:02:06,080 --> 03:02:09,359
land that you can I just say the people

4548
03:02:09,359 --> 03:02:11,120
in here have been wonderful working

4549
03:02:11,120 --> 03:02:13,520
together already. Y'all put put up signs

4550
03:02:13,520 --> 03:02:15,680
and I think you've solved 50% of the

4551
03:02:15,680 --> 03:02:17,520
problem just by doing that and I thank

4552
03:02:17,520 --> 03:02:19,760
you for it and I think it has improved

4553
03:02:19,760 --> 03:02:22,640
the Williams who live there. The reason

4554
03:02:22,640 --> 03:02:26,000
I even brought this up is yes, I don't

4555
03:02:26,000 --> 03:02:28,000
know if it will end up in city hands. I

4556
03:02:28,000 --> 03:02:29,359
don't really care if it does. The goal

4557
03:02:29,359 --> 03:02:31,520
is what you say. It's not secret. It's

4558
03:02:31,520 --> 03:02:34,800
to quiet it down or less traffic because

4559
03:02:34,800 --> 03:02:36,560
the family that lives to the south lives

4560
03:02:36,560 --> 03:02:38,479
there 247. They live they've lived there

4561
03:02:38,479 --> 03:02:39,680
for, you know, like you said, his dad

4562
03:02:39,680 --> 03:02:41,760
and he's lived there for his entire

4563
03:02:41,760 --> 03:02:43,359
life. And I'm trying to get him what we

4564
03:02:43,359 --> 03:02:45,279
have. I'm trying to get everyone in

4565
03:02:45,279 --> 03:02:46,800
Alpine what we have. Your beautiful

4566
03:02:46,800 --> 03:02:47,359
place where you

4567
03:02:47,359 --> 03:02:48,960
>> right. And I think it's fair that the

4568
03:02:48,960 --> 03:02:50,240
Williams don't have people that are

4569
03:02:50,240 --> 03:02:52,160
going to soccer games cruising through

4570
03:02:52,160 --> 03:02:53,359
there because they don't have a reason

4571
03:02:53,359 --> 03:02:54,800
to go there. They don't have a land

4572
03:02:54,800 --> 03:02:55,359
behind.

4573
03:02:55,359 --> 03:02:57,279
>> But in that never was the goal to block

4574
03:02:57,279 --> 03:02:59,279
April or the Cooper family. I just

4575
03:02:59,279 --> 03:03:01,040
wanted to know if the goal was to block

4576
03:03:01,040 --> 03:03:03,120
any cars from going like to get to zero

4577
03:03:03,120 --> 03:03:04,960
and build a trail and nobody can drive

4578
03:03:04,960 --> 03:03:05,200
down.

4579
03:03:05,200 --> 03:03:06,399
>> That's why I'm very happy where we're at

4580
03:03:06,399 --> 03:03:08,720
now. I appreciate the agreement.

4581
03:03:08,720 --> 03:03:10,720
>> And I'm not quite sure having cars go

4582
03:03:10,720 --> 03:03:13,120
down there with dirt and dust flying is

4583
03:03:13,120 --> 03:03:14,479
right where you want to put a trail next

4584
03:03:14,479 --> 03:03:16,319
to anyway. Plus, you'd have to get

4585
03:03:16,319 --> 03:03:18,160
permission from Metro to cross from

4586
03:03:18,160 --> 03:03:20,479
Alagany to the trail. You should be

4587
03:03:20,479 --> 03:03:21,760
building the trail on Metro's land.

4588
03:03:21,760 --> 03:03:24,399
>> And the good news is uh you I didn't

4589
03:03:24,399 --> 03:03:27,359
talk to you before the original proposal

4590
03:03:27,359 --> 03:03:30,080
was made. Okay. It was I didn't know I

4591
03:03:30,080 --> 03:03:31,920
didn't even know you owned land there.

4592
03:03:31,920 --> 03:03:34,720
Um and then I didn't know uh Willard and

4593
03:03:34,720 --> 03:03:36,960
his family. So in one way we are

4594
03:03:36,960 --> 03:03:38,640
arriving Shane has never done so much

4595
03:03:38,640 --> 03:03:40,560
research on this area in his life. Now

4596
03:03:40,560 --> 03:03:42,720
in one way we are arriving at an answer

4597
03:03:42,720 --> 03:03:45,120
that I think will help everyone. Um

4598
03:03:45,120 --> 03:03:48,640
whether it falls in private land or city

4599
03:03:48,640 --> 03:03:51,200
and what happens no matter what that

4600
03:03:51,200 --> 03:03:53,680
does say it lands in our in in Alpine

4601
03:03:53,680 --> 03:03:55,760
City. My whole goal is to work with the

4602
03:03:55,760 --> 03:03:57,520
residents so that they're happy, so they

4603
03:03:57,520 --> 03:03:59,840
find and you're already doing it. Um

4604
03:03:59,840 --> 03:04:01,680
>> maybe to make some residents happy and

4605
03:04:01,680 --> 03:04:03,520
some not. Either way, I would request

4606
03:04:03,520 --> 03:04:05,359
that all the city council, if you guys

4607
03:04:05,359 --> 03:04:08,160
could find out prior to spending money

4608
03:04:08,160 --> 03:04:10,960
on a title search, if the end goal is to

4609
03:04:10,960 --> 03:04:13,359
block off that access lane for you guys

4610
03:04:13,359 --> 03:04:16,240
to for free fill out Metro's form and

4611
03:04:16,240 --> 03:04:19,200
get permission for Willard or for me or

4612
03:04:19,200 --> 03:04:20,800
anyone who would need to cross across

4613
03:04:20,800 --> 03:04:23,680
Metro to get permanent ability to cross

4614
03:04:23,680 --> 03:04:25,520
across there and that you guys get

4615
03:04:25,520 --> 03:04:28,800
permission from Metro to do this trail

4616
03:04:28,800 --> 03:04:30,880
that's on their land before you spend a

4617
03:04:30,880 --> 03:04:32,399
bunch of our tax dollars. You're trying

4618
03:04:32,399 --> 03:04:34,160
to figure out the rest of the title.

4619
03:04:34,160 --> 03:04:34,640
>> Totally.

4620
03:04:34,640 --> 03:04:36,560
>> Thank you. I'm sure three minutes is up.

4621
03:04:36,560 --> 03:04:39,279
>> Okay. I'm going to make a motion.

4622
03:04:39,279 --> 03:04:42,309
>> Motion.

4623
03:04:42,319 --> 03:04:43,359
Metro called me this morning.

4624
03:04:43,359 --> 03:04:44,319
>> I'm sorry.

4625
03:04:44,319 --> 03:04:47,359
>> Metro called me this morning. And we

4626
03:04:47,359 --> 03:04:50,000
were talking about this whole issue that

4627
03:04:50,000 --> 03:04:52,080
we wanted a trail

4628
03:04:52,080 --> 03:04:54,080
>> for the people in Alpine.

4629
03:04:54,080 --> 03:04:54,640
>> Go ahead.

4630
03:04:54,640 --> 03:04:56,319
>> And they said, "We've done the similar

4631
03:04:56,319 --> 03:04:59,279
thing in Draper and it has walked out.

4632
03:04:59,279 --> 03:05:01,760
It has worked out beautifully. The

4633
03:05:01,760 --> 03:05:03,760
people can come across our land. We

4634
03:05:03,760 --> 03:05:05,920
don't mind it at all and they are all

4635
03:05:05,920 --> 03:05:09,439
for it and the inspectors

4636
03:05:09,439 --> 03:05:11,680
have let us know. Let me me know that

4637
03:05:11,680 --> 03:05:13,120
this morning, ma'am. Thank you.

4638
03:05:13,120 --> 03:05:16,800
>> In in reference to

4639
03:05:16,800 --> 03:05:18,240
>> Okay. I would like to make a motion if

4640
03:05:18,240 --> 03:05:20,479
it's entertained.

4641
03:05:20,479 --> 03:05:22,240
>> Is this the time to do it? Go ahead.

4642
03:05:22,240 --> 03:05:24,880
>> Okay. Uh I would make a motion

4643
03:05:24,880 --> 03:05:29,520
that we all lot $2,500

4644
03:05:29,520 --> 03:05:32,800
towards procuring who the rightful owner

4645
03:05:32,800 --> 03:05:35,680
of this land is through a title search

4646
03:05:35,680 --> 03:05:38,240
while simultaneously

4647
03:05:38,240 --> 03:05:40,479
working and looking into the options

4648
03:05:40,479 --> 03:05:43,120
that Metro has, Metropolitan Water

4649
03:05:43,120 --> 03:05:44,800
District

4650
03:05:44,800 --> 03:05:49,920
for access in a secondary

4651
03:05:49,920 --> 03:05:52,880
ingress.

4652
03:05:52,880 --> 03:05:54,560
That's all.

4653
03:05:54,560 --> 03:05:57,040
>> So, okay. Is there a second to the

4654
03:05:57,040 --> 03:05:58,560
motion?

4655
03:05:58,560 --> 03:06:00,080
I'll second. Okay. It's been moved by

4656
03:06:00,080 --> 03:06:02,960
councilman Young C and seconded by

4657
03:06:02,960 --> 03:06:04,640
Councilwoman Spuan. I do have

4658
03:06:04,640 --> 03:06:08,319
clarification a question on the motion.

4659
03:06:08,319 --> 03:06:10,479
So you want to go for the title search

4660
03:06:10,479 --> 03:06:13,359
maximum of 2500. If it ends up being p

4661
03:06:13,359 --> 03:06:15,760
private property then what is there?

4662
03:06:15,760 --> 03:06:18,080
>> Then we will have helped everyone know

4663
03:06:18,080 --> 03:06:19,359
that it is private property.

4664
03:06:19,359 --> 03:06:21,200
>> Right. So then are they putting a trail

4665
03:06:21,200 --> 03:06:22,319
through it or

4666
03:06:22,319 --> 03:06:23,600
>> well they get to do whatever they want

4667
03:06:23,600 --> 03:06:26,080
with it but I would encourage them to

4668
03:06:26,080 --> 03:06:28,640
try to beautify it. So would you

4669
03:06:28,640 --> 03:06:30,160
>> or make it something that they and their

4670
03:06:30,160 --> 03:06:30,560
neighbors

4671
03:06:30,560 --> 03:06:31,600
>> would you be willing to amend your

4672
03:06:31,600 --> 03:06:33,279
motion that if it belongs to private

4673
03:06:33,279 --> 03:06:35,760
property whoever votes for it pays for

4674
03:06:35,760 --> 03:06:36,080
>> Yes.

4675
03:06:36,080 --> 03:06:37,760
>> the title search mainly?

4676
03:06:37,760 --> 03:06:41,200
>> Well, hold on hold on hold on. Well, I I would say yes.

4677
03:06:41,200 --> 03:06:42,479
>> Put your money where it is. You're

4678
03:06:42,479 --> 03:06:44,399
paying tax. You're spending taxpayer

4679
03:06:44,399 --> 03:06:44,800
dollars.

4680
03:06:44,800 --> 03:06:46,479
>> Yes. But I I can't speak for them. I

4681
03:06:46,479 --> 03:06:48,080
said yes for me, but I can't speak for

4682
03:06:48,080 --> 03:06:48,319
them.

4683
03:06:48,319 --> 03:06:50,640
>> But your portion of it you will pay for

4684
03:06:50,640 --> 03:06:51,200
of the title.

4685
03:06:51,200 --> 03:06:52,720
>> Hold on. That's a little ridiculous.

4686
03:06:52,720 --> 03:06:54,240
>> What are you talking about?

4687
03:06:54,240 --> 03:06:56,080
>> That if it ends up being that it's

4688
03:06:56,080 --> 03:06:58,560
>> No, Carla. No, no, that's not fair. It's

4689
03:06:58,560 --> 03:06:59,920
a little ridiculous. And the reason I

4690
03:06:59,920 --> 03:07:00,240
stopped,

4691
03:07:00,240 --> 03:07:01,920
>> I mean, it's fricious, right? I can't

4692
03:07:01,920 --> 03:07:03,279
make an emote, but I mean, really,

4693
03:07:03,279 --> 03:07:04,880
that's how you should think about it.

4694
03:07:04,880 --> 03:07:07,120
>> I do. And I was about to pay for it and

4695
03:07:07,120 --> 03:07:09,439
just on my own, but I want to address

4696
03:07:09,439 --> 03:07:10,000
her question.

4697
03:07:10,000 --> 03:07:12,479
>> Can we vote? Well, I have questions. Go

4698
03:07:12,479 --> 03:07:13,520
ahead. We vote.

4699
03:07:13,520 --> 03:07:15,680
>> Yes. This is questions related to the

4700
03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:18,319
conversation that's occurring. Um, one

4701
03:07:18,319 --> 03:07:21,920
of um, the members said that as a city

4702
03:07:21,920 --> 03:07:25,040
we can't um, I think block or block

4703
03:07:25,040 --> 03:07:27,279
access to their property, but if they

4704
03:07:27,279 --> 03:07:29,279
don't have title, then we're not

4705
03:07:29,279 --> 03:07:31,680
blocking access, right? If they bought a

4706
03:07:31,680 --> 03:07:34,160
landlock parcel, they bought a landlock

4707
03:07:34,160 --> 03:07:36,399
parcel. That's not really anything to do

4708
03:07:36,399 --> 03:07:42,790
within our jurisdiction or control

4709
03:07:42,800 --> 03:07:45,760
» before

4710
03:07:45,760 --> 03:07:53,269
it wasn't landlocked.

4711
03:07:53,279 --> 03:07:55,680
Okay. Hey, I'm sorry. There was

4712
03:07:55,680 --> 03:07:57,920
>> not a question for the audience.

4713
03:07:57,920 --> 03:08:00,080
>> Yeah, it's just a question. Is own

4714
03:08:00,080 --> 03:08:02,960
finding out who the ownership is. Is

4715
03:08:02,960 --> 03:08:06,240
that landlocking anyone's parcel? Just

4716
03:08:06,240 --> 03:08:08,800
clarifying ownership. That's my

4717
03:08:08,800 --> 03:08:11,359
question. Um,

4718
03:08:11,359 --> 03:08:14,479
you know, I'm to be totally honest, I'm

4719
03:08:14,479 --> 03:08:16,640
completely confused because the map that

4720
03:08:16,640 --> 03:08:19,359
I usually go to for information, I'm

4721
03:08:19,359 --> 03:08:21,279
being told is not accurate. So, it's

4722
03:08:21,279 --> 03:08:24,080
really hard for me to make an informed

4723
03:08:24,080 --> 03:08:25,600
decision because what I'm looking at

4724
03:08:25,600 --> 03:08:28,160
now, it doesn't make sense. As I, you

4725
03:08:28,160 --> 03:08:30,000
know, I made that statement, I said, it

4726
03:08:30,000 --> 03:08:32,479
looks like that portion of the property

4727
03:08:32,479 --> 03:08:35,279
belongs to Desireette LLC and April

4728
03:08:35,279 --> 03:08:37,600
Cooper. But then, you know, the

4729
03:08:37,600 --> 03:08:39,279
clarification was, well, it could be

4730
03:08:39,279 --> 03:08:40,960
shifted up and there's wrong. So, for

4731
03:08:40,960 --> 03:08:43,120
me, it's hard. I don't know what's

4732
03:08:43,120 --> 03:08:44,720
right. So, that was just my only

4733
03:08:44,720 --> 03:08:45,359
question.

4734
03:08:45,359 --> 03:08:46,000
>> Are we discussing

4735
03:08:46,000 --> 03:08:48,319
>> Can I Can I Can I Can I add something?

4736
03:08:48,319 --> 03:08:49,840
>> Yes, please do.

4737
03:08:49,840 --> 03:08:52,399
>> Thanks. Um, so I It sounds like there's

4738
03:08:52,399 --> 03:08:53,920
still a little bit of work to be done. I

4739
03:08:53,920 --> 03:08:56,720
My preference would be to table this

4740
03:08:56,720 --> 03:08:58,960
>> um and let Katherine I don't sorry I

4741
03:08:58,960 --> 03:09:01,520
missed your last name. Um, talk to the

4742
03:09:01,520 --> 03:09:03,279
tax commission figure that out. I think

4743
03:09:03,279 --> 03:09:06,960
April Cooper has a very valid point that

4744
03:09:06,960 --> 03:09:09,359
Metro owns part of this property and we

4745
03:09:09,359 --> 03:09:11,760
would need to have uh some kind of

4746
03:09:11,760 --> 03:09:14,560
agreement with them about access for

4747
03:09:14,560 --> 03:09:17,760
those landlock properties and to put the

4748
03:09:17,760 --> 03:09:19,359
path on. I know someone I can I don't

4749
03:09:19,359 --> 03:09:21,520
know who spoke cuz I didn't see them

4750
03:09:21,520 --> 03:09:24,560
about speaking with Metro today. Um

4751
03:09:24,560 --> 03:09:26,000
again they might not know the full

4752
03:09:26,000 --> 03:09:28,560
story. So, I think this is a good idea

4753
03:09:28,560 --> 03:09:31,840
if we can make it work,

4754
03:09:31,840 --> 03:09:33,680
>> but I I think there's still some steps

4755
03:09:33,680 --> 03:09:36,319
to take before we expend taxpayer money

4756
03:09:36,319 --> 03:09:40,240
to resolve a private landowner property

4757
03:09:40,240 --> 03:09:41,120
issue.

4758
03:09:41,120 --> 03:09:42,479
>> Brent, so we have a motion.

4759
03:09:42,479 --> 03:09:43,920
>> I just haven't seen I haven't seen

4760
03:09:43,920 --> 03:09:45,439
anything that indicates that the city

4761
03:09:45,439 --> 03:09:46,479
owns it.

4762
03:09:46,479 --> 03:09:48,399
>> The only way we have a motion and a

4763
03:09:48,399 --> 03:09:50,160
second. If you want to table it, you

4764
03:09:50,160 --> 03:09:51,520
could make that motion.

4765
03:09:51,520 --> 03:09:53,359
>> It's called a substitute motion and it

4766
03:09:53,359 --> 03:09:55,520
ends discussion as well. up.

4767
03:09:55,520 --> 03:09:56,160
>> Okay.

4768
03:09:56,160 --> 03:09:57,760
>> So, Brent, is that something that you're

4769
03:09:57,760 --> 03:09:59,600
entertaining or no?

4770
03:09:59,600 --> 03:10:01,200
>> Yes. I would like to I would like to

4771
03:10:01,200 --> 03:10:03,359
make a substitute motion to table it to

4772
03:10:03,359 --> 03:10:06,240
have those steps I just discussed done

4773
03:10:06,240 --> 03:10:09,120
before we commit taxpayer funds to do a

4774
03:10:09,120 --> 03:10:11,359
title search that is likely going to be

4775
03:10:11,359 --> 03:10:12,319
resolved

4776
03:10:12,319 --> 03:10:13,439
>> for private property.

4777
03:10:13,439 --> 03:10:15,520
>> I'll second motion to table and then we

4778
03:10:15,520 --> 03:10:17,279
need a second. So, it's been moved by

4779
03:10:17,279 --> 03:10:19,840
Councilman Remler to table and seconded

4780
03:10:19,840 --> 03:10:22,479
by Councilwoman Hanaman.

4781
03:10:22,479 --> 03:10:25,040
Um, and then we'll need to proceed with

4782
03:10:25,040 --> 03:10:26,080
a roll call vote.

4783
03:10:26,080 --> 03:10:27,840
>> Can Can we I haven't been able to ask

4784
03:10:27,840 --> 03:10:28,479
any questions.

4785
03:10:28,479 --> 03:10:29,200
>> Not a table.

4786
03:10:29,200 --> 03:10:30,160
>> Sorry. Not on.

4787
03:10:30,160 --> 03:10:31,680
>> Do I start with the vote? Yes.

4788
03:10:31,680 --> 03:10:34,319
>> So, Andrew Young, no.

4789
03:10:34,319 --> 03:10:39,670
>> Jessica Sme, no.

4790
03:10:39,680 --> 03:10:43,279
» Um, Sarah Blackwell, yes. Chrissyan,

4791
03:10:43,279 --> 03:10:44,240
yes.

4792
03:10:44,240 --> 03:10:45,520
>> Brent Roma, yes.

4793
03:10:45,520 --> 03:10:45,920
>> Okay,

4794
03:10:45,920 --> 03:10:47,279
>> we'll just get more information.

4795
03:10:47,279 --> 03:10:49,600
>> So, the motion to table has been

4796
03:10:49,600 --> 03:10:54,160
approved. So, um, Brent, I might have

4797
03:10:54,160 --> 03:10:56,479
Deian reach out to you to clarify the

4798
03:10:56,479 --> 03:10:58,399
steps. I'm sure she'll be listening to

4799
03:10:58,399 --> 03:11:01,520
the meeting. Um, but she might need some

4800
03:11:01,520 --> 03:11:03,439
clarification

4801
03:11:03,439 --> 03:11:04,080
on your table.

4802
03:11:04,080 --> 03:11:05,520
>> That's great. Yeah, for the next four

4803
03:11:05,520 --> 03:11:07,279
days, I will not have cell phone access,

4804
03:11:07,279 --> 03:11:09,200
but I'll be available next Monday.

4805
03:11:09,200 --> 03:11:10,560
>> Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.

4806
03:11:10,560 --> 03:11:12,319
>> Can you explain what now the steps are

4807
03:11:12,319 --> 03:11:14,319
on this of a tableling? Do does the

4808
03:11:14,319 --> 03:11:16,240
staff go on to get that more information

4809
03:11:16,240 --> 03:11:18,080
or how does it work?

4810
03:11:18,080 --> 03:11:19,680
>> And then they'll come back. Can I ask

4811
03:11:19,680 --> 03:11:22,240
another question now? Have have the

4812
03:11:22,240 --> 03:11:24,800
property owners that surround this area

4813
03:11:24,800 --> 03:11:26,080
considered

4814
03:11:26,080 --> 03:11:28,080
>> getting together and going in on a title

4815
03:11:28,080 --> 03:11:30,399
search? You know, if everyone paid a

4816
03:11:30,399 --> 03:11:33,600
portion, is is that a possibility to

4817
03:11:33,600 --> 03:11:39,190
figure this out?

4818
03:11:39,200 --> 03:11:40,160
» I know.

4819
03:11:40,160 --> 03:11:41,600
>> Sorry. Will you say that once more? We

4820
03:11:41,600 --> 03:11:43,040
appreciate your comments. for a title

4821
03:11:43,040 --> 03:11:44,720
search on our piece of property in like

4822
03:11:44,720 --> 03:11:47,120
the last month. And I know I what we do

4823
03:11:47,120 --> 03:11:50,000
own that 16 and 12 ft and across and up.

4824
03:11:50,000 --> 03:11:50,800
>> So you're

4825
03:11:50,800 --> 03:11:52,399
>> we're just talking about the part below.

4826
03:11:52,399 --> 03:11:54,240
>> Sorry, I didn't mean to wor that would

4827
03:11:54,240 --> 03:11:56,000
be a surveyor. I think you'd have to

4828
03:11:56,000 --> 03:11:58,640
have go out more than a title search

4829
03:11:58,640 --> 03:12:00,399
>> because I think it's just lines are

4830
03:12:00,399 --> 03:12:01,600
skewed. We

4831
03:12:01,600 --> 03:12:03,120
>> So you're not talking about just a title

4832
03:12:03,120 --> 03:12:04,160
search. It sounds like

4833
03:12:04,160 --> 03:12:05,439
>> Yeah, it's more than that.

4834
03:12:05,439 --> 03:12:06,560
>> I mean, when you're talking about the

4835
03:12:06,560 --> 03:12:08,800
maps being off, you're talking about

4836
03:12:08,800 --> 03:12:11,520
survey of all of that property. Yeah, it

4837
03:12:11,520 --> 03:12:12,720
would have to be the Spikes, the

4838
03:12:12,720 --> 03:12:14,399
Coopers, and the Williams. All three

4839
03:12:14,399 --> 03:12:14,880
would have to be.

4840
03:12:14,880 --> 03:12:16,319
>> And even to the north of that, too.

4841
03:12:16,319 --> 03:12:18,080
>> Right. The idea was if you do just the

4842
03:12:18,080 --> 03:12:20,240
title search for a cheap amount, you get

4843
03:12:20,240 --> 03:12:22,960
you take two steps further, you can see

4844
03:12:22,960 --> 03:12:24,560
a little bit further ahead, you realize

4845
03:12:24,560 --> 03:12:25,920
if it's a good idea to keep going or

4846
03:12:25,920 --> 03:12:26,080
not.

4847
03:12:26,080 --> 03:12:27,840
>> When we table something, the discussion

4848
03:12:27,840 --> 03:12:28,560
ends.

4849
03:12:28,560 --> 03:12:29,680
>> Okay, let's move on.

4850
03:12:29,680 --> 03:12:30,720
>> That's Robert's rules.

4851
03:12:30,720 --> 03:12:32,880
>> Don't be so grumpy.

4852
03:12:32,880 --> 03:12:34,319
>> Look what time it is.

4853
03:12:34,319 --> 03:12:34,720
>> Yeah.

4854
03:12:34,720 --> 03:12:35,840
>> Thank you. Thank you very much.

4855
03:12:35,840 --> 03:12:38,399
>> I move Thank you. to move to go into

4856
03:12:38,399 --> 03:12:40,960
close session to discuss acquisition of

4857
03:12:40,960 --> 03:12:42,080
property.

4858
03:12:42,080 --> 03:12:43,760
>> Okay, there's a motion on the table. Is

4859
03:12:43,760 --> 03:12:46,319
there a second?

4860
03:12:46,319 --> 03:12:47,439
>> Second.

4861
03:12:47,439 --> 03:12:49,120
>> Okay, it's been moved and seconded that

4862
03:12:49,120 --> 03:12:51,840
we go into close session.

4863
03:12:51,840 --> 03:12:54,160
>> Um, let's proceed with the roll call

4864
03:12:54,160 --> 03:12:54,479
vote.

4865
03:12:54,479 --> 03:12:55,359
>> We're going out of order.

4866
03:12:55,359 --> 03:12:56,880
>> Did you guys stop the agenda and the

4867
03:12:56,880 --> 03:12:58,880
gateway quarters done?

4868
03:12:58,880 --> 03:12:59,760
>> We'll come back to that.

4869
03:12:59,760 --> 03:13:00,160
>> No.

4870
03:13:00,160 --> 03:13:02,080
>> Oh, good.

4871
03:13:02,080 --> 03:13:04,000
>> Uh, so so we're voting on to go into

4872
03:13:04,000 --> 03:13:07,040
close session. Uh, Andrew Young. Yes.

4873
03:13:07,040 --> 03:13:09,279
>> Jessica Custom. Yes. Sarah Blackwell.

4874
03:13:09,279 --> 03:13:09,600
Yes.

4875
03:13:09,600 --> 03:13:11,200
>> Christian. Yes.

4876
03:13:11,200 --> 03:13:12,560
>> Ron Rumble. Yes.

4877
03:13:12,560 --> 03:13:14,399
>> And you said the closed session close

4878
03:13:14,399 --> 03:13:16,319
session will be in council.

4879
03:13:16,319 --> 03:13:18,319
>> If we can add to the motion

4880
03:13:18,319 --> 03:13:19,760
>> conference room, whatever it's called.

4881
03:13:19,760 --> 03:13:21,040
>> Yes. Do I need to amend that?

4882
03:13:21,040 --> 03:13:21,359
>> Yes.

4883
03:13:21,359 --> 03:13:23,439
>> I'd like to amend the motion to include

4884
03:13:23,439 --> 03:13:26,800
moving into council chambers to discuss

4885
03:13:26,800 --> 03:13:27,840
>> the conference room. I guess

4886
03:13:27,840 --> 03:13:29,439
>> to the conference room. Sorry.

4887
03:13:29,439 --> 03:13:31,840
>> And Chrissy, are you amendable to the

4888
03:13:31,840 --> 03:13:32,640
amendment?

4889
03:13:32,640 --> 03:13:33,520
>> Yes.

4890
03:13:33,520 --> 03:13:34,479
>> I second it.

4891
03:13:34,479 --> 03:13:36,000
>> Sure. Yes. I thought I am.

4892
03:13:36,000 --> 03:13:37,760
>> Oh, I'm sorry. Are you amendable? Okay.

4893
03:13:37,760 --> 03:13:39,520
So, for those who want to stay for the

4894
03:13:39,520 --> 03:13:40,720
main street, you guys, we have to go

4895
03:13:40,720 --> 03:13:42,000
into close session. And the whole reason

4896
03:13:42,000 --> 03:13:44,399
we're doing that is we want our lawyer

4897
03:13:44,399 --> 03:13:46,160
here, but for him to be able to go home

4898
03:13:46,160 --> 03:13:47,359
so we don't have to pay him while we're

4899
03:13:47,359 --> 03:13:48,880
doing the main street. So, that's why

4900
03:13:48,880 --> 03:13:50,239
we're going out of order. So, sorry

4901
03:13:50,239 --> 03:13:51,200
about that.

4902
03:13:51,200 --> 03:13:52,800
>> It's all about the money

4903
03:13:52,800 --> 03:13:57,429
>> and how to save it.

4904
03:13:57,439 --> 03:13:58,560
» I don't know. How do you guys feel? Are

4905
03:13:58,560 --> 03:14:02,000
we going to go over it or table?

4906
03:14:02,000 --> 03:14:03,439
>> Some of the folks want to stay for it.

4907
03:14:03,439 --> 03:14:04,640
Do you think we're actually gonna do it

4908
03:14:04,640 --> 03:14:05,680
or not?

4909
03:14:05,680 --> 03:14:09,110
>> Okay.

4910
03:14:09,120 --> 03:14:14,229
» What's the cons? Hey, Brent.

4911
03:14:14,239 --> 03:14:15,040
» Yes.

4912
03:14:15,040 --> 03:14:16,800
>> You're Are you

4913
03:14:16,800 --> 03:14:18,560
>> What are your thoughts on staying to do

4914
03:14:18,560 --> 03:14:20,239
the main street today?

4915
03:14:20,239 --> 03:14:20,640
>> Yes.

4916
03:14:20,640 --> 03:14:22,160
>> Um

4917
03:14:22,160 --> 03:14:23,279
>> you're staying to do the main street.

4918
03:14:23,279 --> 03:14:25,200
Okay. Looks like we'll be staying April.

4919
03:14:25,200 --> 03:14:25,439
Yes.

4920
03:14:25,439 --> 03:14:26,800
>> All right. Fine.

4921
03:14:26,800 --> 03:14:29,439
>> Okay. We'll see you in I'm sure somebody

4922
03:14:29,439 --> 03:14:31,359
will be calling you, Brent.

4923
03:14:31,359 --> 03:14:34,479
>> Okay. Sounds good.

4924
03:14:34,479 --> 03:14:37,200
No, that's a great tip. Thanks. That's a

4925
03:14:37,200 --> 03:14:39,359
one of those little council hacks.

4926
03:14:39,359 --> 03:14:41,840
>> I just

4927
03:14:41,840 --> 03:14:43,200
thought of it.

4928
03:14:43,200 --> 03:15:00,870
>> Take care.

4929
03:15:00,880 --> 03:15:03,680
» Thank you for your had like a timeline

4930
03:15:03,680 --> 03:15:07,190
we had

4931
03:15:07,200 --> 03:15:13,910
to live there.

4932
03:15:13,920 --> 03:15:26,070
» You guys

4933
03:15:26,080 --> 03:15:27,279
called me because I'm running late. I

4934
03:15:27,279 --> 03:15:29,359
was like,

4935
03:15:29,359 --> 03:15:31,840
"So, this will show up again.

4936
03:15:31,840 --> 03:15:34,800
Okay.

4937
03:15:34,800 --> 03:15:36,319
>> Are we coming back here?

4938
03:15:36,319 --> 03:15:56,150
>> Yes.

4939
03:15:56,160 --> 03:15:57,520
» Hey, Sullivan. Thanks for being here,

4940
03:15:57,520 --> 03:15:59,359
man.

4941
03:15:59,359 --> 03:16:14,790
See

4942
03:16:14,800 --> 03:16:27,830
you guys. Take care.

4943
03:16:27,840 --> 03:18:56,150
» I don't want to watch

4944
03:18:56,160 --> 03:19:11,990
And then

4945
03:19:12,000 --> 03:19:26,950
I don't

4946
03:19:26,960 --> 03:38:27,510
Hallelujah.

4947
03:38:27,520 --> 03:38:31,830
real

4948
03:38:31,840 --> 03:38:34,080
estate

4949
03:38:34,080 --> 03:38:37,110
broker

4950
03:38:37,120 --> 03:48:22,630
for all of

4951
03:48:22,640 --> 03:56:44,790
I don't know.

4952
03:56:44,800 --> 03:56:52,070
We're on a roll. We're on a roll.

4953
03:56:52,080 --> 03:56:55,269
» What?

4954
03:56:55,279 --> 03:57:01,830
No, I said we're still going.

4955
03:57:01,840 --> 03:57:04,720
» April, I don't know where

4956
03:57:04,720 --> 03:57:06,640
>> she called me.

4957
03:57:06,640 --> 03:57:11,349
>> Oh, yeah.

4958
03:57:11,359 --> 03:57:13,359
» She called me late last night.

4959
03:57:13,359 --> 03:57:14,880
>> I'm happy to push this to the next

4960
03:57:14,880 --> 03:57:17,199
meeting. I think it's important.

4961
03:57:17,199 --> 03:57:19,279
>> I don't want to keep delaying because I

4962
03:57:19,279 --> 03:57:29,750
want to wrap it up.

4963
03:57:29,760 --> 03:57:31,199
No, no. As soon as the budget's over,

4964
03:57:31,199 --> 03:57:33,840
we're going to start writing or now that

4965
03:57:33,840 --> 03:57:37,120
the budget's over though, we could

4966
03:57:37,120 --> 03:57:38,640
>> if we can get through this, we can start

4967
03:57:38,640 --> 03:57:40,239
doing the ordinances to make this into

4968
03:57:40,239 --> 03:57:41,840
reality.

4969
03:57:41,840 --> 03:57:45,750
agenda. What's our next

4970
03:57:45,760 --> 03:57:47,040
» Okay, she's here.

4971
03:57:47,040 --> 03:57:48,319
>> She's here.

4972
03:57:48,319 --> 03:57:50,800
>> Let's do it.

4973
03:57:50,800 --> 03:57:53,279
>> Okay, let me know when we're live. Okay,

4974
03:57:53,279 --> 03:57:56,000
Kayen,

4975
03:57:56,000 --> 03:58:00,389
>> I swear.

4976
03:58:00,399 --> 03:58:12,710
» Oh, are we okay?

4977
03:58:12,720 --> 03:58:39,189
I know.

4978
03:58:39,199 --> 03:58:44,229
Thank you, Steve.

4979
03:58:44,239 --> 03:58:58,790
» Kayen's like, "Take me with you."

4980
03:58:58,800 --> 03:59:09,910
» In the middle of

4981
03:59:09,920 --> 03:59:14,309
So basically

4982
03:59:14,319 --> 03:59:26,710
clear

4983
03:59:26,720 --> 03:59:45,590
I'll show you

4984
03:59:45,600 --> 03:59:48,080
That's my favorite thing.

4985
03:59:48,080 --> 03:59:50,319
>> Anyone's motion. We can table

4986
03:59:50,319 --> 03:59:53,040
everything. We can say no. I want to

4987
03:59:53,040 --> 03:59:53,760
>> discuss

4988
03:59:53,760 --> 03:59:57,040
>> and then if you have a second

4989
03:59:57,040 --> 03:59:59,359
>> What is that? That's called substitute

4990
03:59:59,359 --> 04:00:04,070
motion to table. That is cool.

4991
04:00:04,080 --> 04:00:06,399
» Bren, you're still hearing us.

4992
04:00:06,399 --> 04:00:08,640
>> Yeah, I am.

4993
04:00:08,640 --> 04:00:10,560
>> That's the first time I've ever done it,

4994
04:00:10,560 --> 04:00:12,239
Andrew. I feel so cruel.

4995
04:00:12,239 --> 04:00:14,560
>> Well, you did. You did well. I'm

4996
04:00:14,560 --> 04:00:16,640
>> Well done, Brent.

4997
04:00:16,640 --> 04:00:19,750
>> Hey,

4998
04:00:19,760 --> 04:00:21,920
I I I hope honestly the hope is that

4999
04:00:21,920 --> 04:00:23,520
something good comes from it. We still

5000
04:00:23,520 --> 04:00:26,880
have April here. So,

5001
04:00:26,880 --> 04:00:28,640
>> where are you anyways? I envision you in

5002
04:00:28,640 --> 04:00:31,199
like Ireland.

5003
04:00:31,199 --> 04:00:33,199
>> No, I just finished me.

5004
04:00:33,199 --> 04:00:34,160
>> Yeah.

5005
04:00:34,160 --> 04:00:36,399
>> I just finished seven days river rafting

5006
04:00:36,399 --> 04:00:40,080
in the in the Grand Canyon, 188 miles

5007
04:00:40,080 --> 04:00:42,239
>> with no cell service for a week. It was

5008
04:00:42,239 --> 04:00:43,199
awesome.

5009
04:00:43,199 --> 04:00:43,840
>> Wow.

5010
04:00:43,840 --> 04:00:45,840
>> And then and then tomorrow I start a

5011
04:00:45,840 --> 04:00:48,399
4-day vacation on a house boat in Lake

5012
04:00:48,399 --> 04:00:49,279
Powell.

5013
04:00:49,279 --> 04:00:52,000
>> Oh wow. Have fun. That sounds amazing.

5014
04:00:52,000 --> 04:00:55,600
>> Are you sore? Are your shoulders sore?

5015
04:00:55,600 --> 04:00:56,319
>> No.

5016
04:00:56,319 --> 04:00:58,479
>> Okay. No, it was a from the river

5017
04:00:58,479 --> 04:01:00,560
rafting.

5018
04:01:00,560 --> 04:01:03,040
>> Yes. And from sleeping on the ground.

5019
04:01:03,040 --> 04:01:05,359
>> Oh, yeah. Just it was it was rough to

5020
04:01:05,359 --> 04:01:06,960
sleep on the cuts and in the wind and

5021
04:01:06,960 --> 04:01:11,040
then in the heat. So, I I'm very tired,

5022
04:01:11,040 --> 04:01:21,670
but uh it was worth it.

5023
04:01:21,680 --> 04:01:34,950
Yes,

5024
04:01:34,960 --> 04:01:36,399
» Katie, you want to just get started?

5025
04:01:36,399 --> 04:01:37,120
Yeah, you're right.

5026
04:01:37,120 --> 04:01:38,319
>> Yeah, we good to start.

5027
04:01:38,319 --> 04:01:38,960
>> Yes, go ahead.

5028
04:01:38,960 --> 04:01:41,439
>> Okay,

5029
04:01:41,439 --> 04:01:42,000
>> thank you.

5030
04:01:42,000 --> 04:01:44,000
>> Again, I apologize for my voice with the

5031
04:01:44,000 --> 04:01:46,720
cold, but all right. Yeah, let's let's

5032
04:01:46,720 --> 04:01:50,160
dive in. So, uh, super excited about the

5033
04:01:50,160 --> 04:01:51,760
plan and continuing to go with our

5034
04:01:51,760 --> 04:01:55,199
review on it. So, um, last time we

5035
04:01:55,199 --> 04:01:59,199
reviewed, we jumped to part three and

5036
04:01:59,199 --> 04:02:00,960
reviewed most of it. I don't think we

5037
04:02:00,960 --> 04:02:03,760
got to the appendix. I correct me if I'm

5038
04:02:03,760 --> 04:02:05,600
wrong on that, but for my recollection,

5039
04:02:05,600 --> 04:02:07,040
we did not get to that. So, I scheduled

5040
04:02:07,040 --> 04:02:08,880
that for today's review just to finish

5041
04:02:08,880 --> 04:02:11,359
that up with the design guidelines and

5042
04:02:11,359 --> 04:02:14,960
then go to part two. Um, and so that's

5043
04:02:14,960 --> 04:02:17,600
what that image is right there.

5044
04:02:17,600 --> 04:02:20,160
Uh I highlighted in red in the packet

5045
04:02:20,160 --> 04:02:22,239
the motions that the planning commission

5046
04:02:22,239 --> 04:02:24,160
made with regards to this section that

5047
04:02:24,160 --> 04:02:27,040
we're reviewing today. Um as we know

5048
04:02:27,040 --> 04:02:30,720
they are very gung-ho about the Utah

5049
04:02:30,720 --> 04:02:32,720
historic traditional

5050
04:02:32,720 --> 04:02:37,439
uh type of uh design that uh they think

5051
04:02:37,439 --> 04:02:40,080
we should be looking for in Alpine. Um

5052
04:02:40,080 --> 04:02:41,600
so

5053
04:02:41,600 --> 04:02:45,120
uh just to just to say that um but let's

5054
04:02:45,120 --> 04:02:49,439
go ahead and jump to appendix B

5055
04:02:49,439 --> 04:02:51,199
just to finish up the design guidelines.

5056
04:02:51,199 --> 04:02:52,800
And I don't I don't think there should

5057
04:02:52,800 --> 04:02:54,800
be much comment new on this. It was

5058
04:02:54,800 --> 04:02:56,960
pretty much reviewed

5059
04:02:56,960 --> 04:02:59,920
uh at our last meeting and this one was

5060
04:02:59,920 --> 04:03:01,760
just kind of the baseline of how we got

5061
04:03:01,760 --> 04:03:03,199
to those design guidelines that we

5062
04:03:03,199 --> 04:03:06,800
already talked about. Um,

5063
04:03:06,800 --> 04:03:08,880
I mean the the whole purpose of these

5064
04:03:08,880 --> 04:03:11,520
updated design guidelines is uh just

5065
04:03:11,520 --> 04:03:13,120
because our our gateway historically

5066
04:03:13,120 --> 04:03:14,399
needed an update. They haven't been

5067
04:03:14,399 --> 04:03:16,720
updated since 2015.

5068
04:03:16,720 --> 04:03:19,040
Um,

5069
04:03:19,040 --> 04:03:20,880
so

5070
04:03:20,880 --> 04:03:27,910
let me see here.

5071
04:03:27,920 --> 04:03:29,920
» Okay. Now, are we starting on like page

5072
04:03:29,920 --> 04:03:34,630
around 40 44?

5073
04:03:34,640 --> 04:03:36,479
Sorry. Page 40.

5074
04:03:36,479 --> 04:03:38,399
>> Uh, are this includes the traffic

5075
04:03:38,399 --> 04:03:39,920
management plan, correct?

5076
04:03:39,920 --> 04:03:42,000
>> No, that will be our last review which

5077
04:03:42,000 --> 04:03:43,279
will be at the next meeting.

5078
04:03:43,279 --> 04:03:44,080
>> Oh, wow.

5079
04:03:44,080 --> 04:03:46,160
>> So, are we going to go into detail? I

5080
04:03:46,160 --> 04:03:50,640
saw the red um input from planning

5081
04:03:50,640 --> 04:03:52,800
commission in their reference to Gateway

5082
04:03:52,800 --> 04:03:54,960
Historic, but then they actually put in

5083
04:03:54,960 --> 04:03:58,080
a little bit deeper of prescribed um

5084
04:03:58,080 --> 04:04:00,560
design. I wondered, are we going to

5085
04:04:00,560 --> 04:04:03,279
cover that or will that be included

5086
04:04:03,279 --> 04:04:04,960
because specifically around, you know,

5087
04:04:04,960 --> 04:04:06,720
we're going back and forth on the black.

5088
04:04:06,720 --> 04:04:08,160
Does the black really

5089
04:04:08,160 --> 04:04:12,319
>> represent traditional Utah historic?

5090
04:04:12,319 --> 04:04:14,000
>> Yeah, I mean, maybe right now would be

5091
04:04:14,000 --> 04:04:15,439
the time to discuss that since we're

5092
04:04:15,439 --> 04:04:16,720
kind of finishing up the design

5093
04:04:16,720 --> 04:04:18,880
guidelines right now with this appendix

5094
04:04:18,880 --> 04:04:19,600
B.

5095
04:04:19,600 --> 04:04:21,680
>> Um, if you want to add any more input

5096
04:04:21,680 --> 04:04:23,920
that we want to consider to integrate

5097
04:04:23,920 --> 04:04:26,160
into that section, that would be great.

5098
04:04:26,160 --> 04:04:28,479
So, I was talking with um council member

5099
04:04:28,479 --> 04:04:30,479
Hanniman and you know we started down

5100
04:04:30,479 --> 04:04:34,399
the pathway of there's very clear um

5101
04:04:34,399 --> 04:04:36,239
descriptions of if you're going with

5102
04:04:36,239 --> 04:04:39,120
craftsmen like we all know what that is

5103
04:04:39,120 --> 04:04:41,279
from a architectural standpoint there's

5104
04:04:41,279 --> 04:04:44,000
design templates in place and what I

5105
04:04:44,000 --> 04:04:47,760
wanted to ask Sarah Blackwell is do you

5106
04:04:47,760 --> 04:04:49,760
have anything that we could insert that

5107
04:04:49,760 --> 04:04:52,080
would move it away from personal

5108
04:04:52,080 --> 04:04:56,160
preference but actually anchor it in um

5109
04:04:56,160 --> 04:04:59,120
architectural standards when we say Utah

5110
04:04:59,120 --> 04:05:01,439
historic. You know, I think that's why

5111
04:05:01,439 --> 04:05:03,199
we are where we are today with Main

5112
04:05:03,199 --> 04:05:05,840
Street is because we didn't give it

5113
04:05:05,840 --> 04:05:09,279
enough of a parameter to be able to um

5114
04:05:09,279 --> 04:05:11,199
point to this is what we want. And I

5115
04:05:11,199 --> 04:05:12,880
remember at the very beginning of this,

5116
04:05:12,880 --> 04:05:14,960
the mayor said, "What I would like to

5117
04:05:14,960 --> 04:05:17,120
see come out of, now we're working on

5118
04:05:17,120 --> 04:05:21,680
it, this document, is five examples of

5119
04:05:21,680 --> 04:05:23,439
this is what Main Street needs to look

5120
04:05:23,439 --> 04:05:27,040
like without arbitrary decisions to be

5121
04:05:27,040 --> 04:05:28,319
made on it."

5122
04:05:28,319 --> 04:05:31,040
>> And so to do that, we have to be pretty

5123
04:05:31,040 --> 04:05:33,120
prescribed in what we're adding in this

5124
04:05:33,120 --> 04:05:35,439
document. Well, in doing some of the

5125
04:05:35,439 --> 04:05:37,199
research for the fire station, I did

5126
04:05:37,199 --> 04:05:39,439
find some documents that were that I

5127
04:05:39,439 --> 04:05:41,359
cited in the presentation that do go

5128
04:05:41,359 --> 04:05:43,760
through what was historic at the time

5129
04:05:43,760 --> 04:05:46,800
for Utah and what materials they used.

5130
04:05:46,800 --> 04:05:49,760
So, I can go back through and get a copy

5131
04:05:49,760 --> 04:05:52,080
of that and we could maybe cite that in

5132
04:05:52,080 --> 04:05:54,000
here just to add some, you know,

5133
04:05:54,000 --> 04:05:55,760
validation to

5134
04:05:55,760 --> 04:05:57,920
>> Yeah. specificity,

5135
04:05:57,920 --> 04:06:00,880
um, validity to what we want it to look

5136
04:06:00,880 --> 04:06:03,520
like. And I'm more than happy to also

5137
04:06:03,520 --> 04:06:05,680
they did have pictures in there as well.

5138
04:06:05,680 --> 04:06:08,319
So we could use those as well as I think

5139
04:06:08,319 --> 04:06:10,239
Alpine Yesterday's is a great reference

5140
04:06:10,239 --> 04:06:11,359
for some of that too.

5141
04:06:11,359 --> 04:06:12,880
>> Well, and the challenge we had with

5142
04:06:12,880 --> 04:06:15,520
pictures before is what we end started

5143
04:06:15,520 --> 04:06:17,600
ending up with was almost a Frankenstein

5144
04:06:17,600 --> 04:06:20,000
experience is they take one thing off of

5145
04:06:20,000 --> 04:06:22,080
one photo and then another element off

5146
04:06:22,080 --> 04:06:23,840
of another photo and put them all

5147
04:06:23,840 --> 04:06:25,920
together and that necessarily wasn't the

5148
04:06:25,920 --> 04:06:28,239
intent behind the picture. And so we

5149
04:06:28,239 --> 04:06:30,640
need to make sure that what we codify,

5150
04:06:30,640 --> 04:06:34,640
what we agree to actually is what we

5151
04:06:34,640 --> 04:06:37,120
want to see built. And you know, you had

5152
04:06:37,120 --> 04:06:38,640
some ideas along that too. There would

5153
04:06:38,640 --> 04:06:41,040
almost be like this is if you come to

5154
04:06:41,040 --> 04:06:45,600
DRC and you fit into this um category,

5155
04:06:45,600 --> 04:06:47,040
go right on and get your project

5156
04:06:47,040 --> 04:06:48,960
started. Now, if you're wanting to come

5157
04:06:48,960 --> 04:06:51,600
back and look at maybe black windows,

5158
04:06:51,600 --> 04:06:53,279
then you're going to go down this path

5159
04:06:53,279 --> 04:06:55,840
and it's going to look different.

5160
04:06:55,840 --> 04:06:59,760
I think um on that same note like to be

5161
04:06:59,760 --> 04:07:02,800
uh have a a narrow road for them to

5162
04:07:02,800 --> 04:07:04,319
proceed forward because we've learned

5163
04:07:04,319 --> 04:07:06,399
now that every time we send them back to

5164
04:07:06,399 --> 04:07:08,479
make a change it costs them money

5165
04:07:08,479 --> 04:07:11,120
>> and so we need to be clearer so that

5166
04:07:11,120 --> 04:07:14,160
they come in the first time and so I did

5167
04:07:14,160 --> 04:07:16,239
my own research on the Utah historic

5168
04:07:16,239 --> 04:07:18,560
architecture and I ended up in the

5169
04:07:18,560 --> 04:07:23,279
actual um the Utah historic

5170
04:07:23,279 --> 04:07:26,469
society,

5171
04:07:26,479 --> 04:07:29,040
something like that, history society,

5172
04:07:29,040 --> 04:07:31,199
and they had some Oh, here it is. It's

5173
04:07:31,199 --> 04:07:32,960
called

5174
04:07:32,960 --> 04:07:34,640
Anyways, they had some very specific

5175
04:07:34,640 --> 04:07:36,960
things and what what makes it Utah

5176
04:07:36,960 --> 04:07:40,640
historic has to do with um here's just

5177
04:07:40,640 --> 04:07:43,840
their summary is light stone and brick

5178
04:07:43,840 --> 04:07:46,160
from nearby canyon. So, our planning

5179
04:07:46,160 --> 04:07:48,479
commission is being very narrow and only

5180
04:07:48,479 --> 04:07:50,399
saying brick, but I feel like they're

5181
04:07:50,399 --> 04:07:52,479
following some cities that are going for

5182
04:07:52,479 --> 04:07:54,399
American colonial, which is what not

5183
04:07:54,399 --> 04:07:57,439
what we want. We want more Utah

5184
04:07:57,439 --> 04:07:59,120
historic. So, they're saying two

5185
04:07:59,120 --> 04:08:00,640
different things. And so, we really need

5186
04:08:00,640 --> 04:08:02,800
to clarify that and have them clarify

5187
04:08:02,800 --> 04:08:04,800
it. It also said they have simple

5188
04:08:04,800 --> 04:08:08,319
symmetrical pioneer forms. Cross-wing

5189
04:08:08,319 --> 04:08:10,880
houses are everywhere. Um, I now know

5190
04:08:10,880 --> 04:08:12,239
what a cross-wing house is. We could

5191
04:08:12,239 --> 04:08:14,080
talk about that some other time. Um,

5192
04:08:14,080 --> 04:08:15,760
they also have Craftsman bungalow

5193
04:08:15,760 --> 04:08:17,760
because there was like building in the

5194
04:08:17,760 --> 04:08:21,040
1900s and then very little Victorian

5195
04:08:21,040 --> 04:08:23,199
which was somewhat like the Carile House

5196
04:08:23,199 --> 04:08:25,439
got taken down but it was Victorian but

5197
04:08:25,439 --> 04:08:27,120
it was actually rare in Utah that

5198
04:08:27,120 --> 04:08:30,080
Victorian was part of us because frankly

5199
04:08:30,080 --> 04:08:32,239
we just didn't have the resources to do

5200
04:08:32,239 --> 04:08:34,560
it. They did say back to the natural

5201
04:08:34,560 --> 04:08:36,399
wood that agricultural buildings are

5202
04:08:36,399 --> 04:08:39,199
integrated into neighborhoods and that's

5203
04:08:39,199 --> 04:08:42,160
you know every everything like even the

5204
04:08:42,160 --> 04:08:44,399
foundry across the street from the red

5205
04:08:44,399 --> 04:08:46,319
brick chapel was meant to look like an

5206
04:08:46,319 --> 04:08:48,560
old barn because barns are very much a

5207
04:08:48,560 --> 04:08:50,880
part of our heritage. So like we have to

5208
04:08:50,880 --> 04:08:52,800
allow some more flexibility than I feel

5209
04:08:52,800 --> 04:08:54,000
like where the planning commission

5210
04:08:54,000 --> 04:08:56,560
landed because they were kept going

5211
04:08:56,560 --> 04:08:58,800
after the red brick black trim but

5212
04:08:58,800 --> 04:09:01,040
that's really narrow. It's probably more

5213
04:09:01,040 --> 04:09:03,520
narrow than what is actually Utah

5214
04:09:03,520 --> 04:09:05,199
traditional historic

5215
04:09:05,199 --> 04:09:08,239
>> England like inspired or something like

5216
04:09:08,239 --> 04:09:10,239
almost like there was a crossover.

5217
04:09:10,239 --> 04:09:12,640
>> Yeah, somewhere they got there somewhere

5218
04:09:12,640 --> 04:09:15,520
and then also the steep roof lines um

5219
04:09:15,520 --> 04:09:18,080
because of our mountain settings. So,

5220
04:09:18,080 --> 04:09:19,680
>> where was I when I was looking at all

5221
04:09:19,680 --> 04:09:21,760
the I went on a trip? Was it to

5222
04:09:21,760 --> 04:09:23,840
California? And you can Oh, I know.

5223
04:09:23,840 --> 04:09:25,199
That's I think I've told this story

5224
04:09:25,199 --> 04:09:27,520
before. You can look at a a city built

5225
04:09:27,520 --> 04:09:30,960
in in the um Northern California the

5226
04:09:30,960 --> 04:09:32,880
exact same year is like Alpine because

5227
04:09:32,880 --> 04:09:36,160
they had the um the gold rush in 1849.

5228
04:09:36,160 --> 04:09:38,880
Our city was founded in 1850. Their

5229
04:09:38,880 --> 04:09:41,040
cities look very different and that's

5230
04:09:41,040 --> 04:09:43,359
because they were surrounded by timber.

5231
04:09:43,359 --> 04:09:45,680
>> Okay. Like all of they have like like

5232
04:09:45,680 --> 04:09:47,359
those false fronts that goes in front of

5233
04:09:47,359 --> 04:09:48,960
like the grocery stores or the saloons

5234
04:09:48,960 --> 04:09:51,520
or whatever. So we do have a Utah look.

5235
04:09:51,520 --> 04:09:53,760
we just need to sort of um and then I

5236
04:09:53,760 --> 04:09:56,720
want not I don't want to be stuck in a

5237
04:09:56,720 --> 04:09:59,120
certain era like to say it's Victorian

5238
04:09:59,120 --> 04:10:01,199
or colonial or anything. It's just the

5239
04:10:01,199 --> 04:10:03,760
materials that make it traditional,

5240
04:10:03,760 --> 04:10:04,160
>> right?

5241
04:10:04,160 --> 04:10:06,160
>> And the roof lines, but it doesn't have

5242
04:10:06,160 --> 04:10:08,479
to be, you know what I'm saying? So,

5243
04:10:08,479 --> 04:10:11,359
that's that's where I'm at. Um and I and

5244
04:10:11,359 --> 04:10:13,199
I feel like they came up with a black

5245
04:10:13,199 --> 04:10:15,680
because of all these pictures that um

5246
04:10:15,680 --> 04:10:18,399
Allan sent me. I I don't want to be

5247
04:10:18,399 --> 04:10:21,120
prescriptive enough to say it has to be

5248
04:10:21,120 --> 04:10:23,920
black, per se, but that dark, you know,

5249
04:10:23,920 --> 04:10:26,239
dark is I feel like dark is okay. Like

5250
04:10:26,239 --> 04:10:28,720
dark accents like window trim, door door

5251
04:10:28,720 --> 04:10:31,520
trim, that's fine. It can be dark or

5252
04:10:31,520 --> 04:10:33,040
light. I don't think we have to be that

5253
04:10:33,040 --> 04:10:35,279
prescriptive as long as we're consistent

5254
04:10:35,279 --> 04:10:37,600
with saying the primary materials are

5255
04:10:37,600 --> 04:10:40,399
stone and brick. with traditional roof

5256
04:10:40,399 --> 04:10:42,960
lines, like we're going to look have a

5257
04:10:42,960 --> 04:10:44,560
similar look and feel without looking

5258
04:10:44,560 --> 04:10:47,680
like copy little cookie cutter buildings

5259
04:10:47,680 --> 04:10:49,439
because that's not where we want either.

5260
04:10:49,439 --> 04:10:51,279
>> That's kind of where I'm at. But I I

5261
04:10:51,279 --> 04:10:54,479
would like to make sure that um uh the

5262
04:10:54,479 --> 04:10:57,120
planning commission is even mentally on

5263
04:10:57,120 --> 04:10:58,640
the same page and then have somebody

5264
04:10:58,640 --> 04:11:00,560
that's been outside our process run a

5265
04:11:00,560 --> 04:11:02,640
building through and say, would this

5266
04:11:02,640 --> 04:11:03,840
pass

5267
04:11:03,840 --> 04:11:06,160
>> their standards? because sometimes what

5268
04:11:06,160 --> 04:11:07,520
you have in your head is not what you've

5269
04:11:07,520 --> 04:11:09,359
written on the paper.

5270
04:11:09,359 --> 04:11:11,920
>> And to validate your point, I did find a

5271
04:11:11,920 --> 04:11:14,319
historical document that did talk about

5272
04:11:14,319 --> 04:11:16,960
um you know people getting stone from

5273
04:11:16,960 --> 04:11:19,680
our dry canyon or American fort canyon

5274
04:11:19,680 --> 04:11:21,279
using it in their homes. So I I agree

5275
04:11:21,279 --> 04:11:23,520
with the stone and the brick and just

5276
04:11:23,520 --> 04:11:25,680
adds a little bit more options for a

5277
04:11:25,680 --> 04:11:30,640
builder and more variety and yeah. So oh

5278
04:11:30,640 --> 04:11:32,800
they also we talked about overhangs too.

5279
04:11:32,800 --> 04:11:34,640
They said they had big overhangs because

5280
04:11:34,640 --> 04:11:36,800
we have such hot summers and then our

5281
04:11:36,800 --> 04:11:38,560
winters the snow would melt and like

5282
04:11:38,560 --> 04:11:40,640
drip like so you wouldn't have big piles

5283
04:11:40,640 --> 04:11:42,960
of snow at your foundation where some of

5284
04:11:42,960 --> 04:11:45,359
our newer things are lo we're losing all

5285
04:11:45,359 --> 04:11:47,040
that overhang and that's coming from a

5286
04:11:47,040 --> 04:11:48,479
European look.

5287
04:11:48,479 --> 04:11:50,560
>> You can see that in the residential. So

5288
04:11:50,560 --> 04:11:52,560
just like specific characteristics like

5289
04:11:52,560 --> 04:11:56,160
a steep roof, bigger overhangs. Um

5290
04:11:56,160 --> 04:11:57,520
anyways, I feel like we can do

5291
04:11:57,520 --> 04:11:59,920
architectural elements without being so

5292
04:11:59,920 --> 04:12:01,199
narrow that it's going to look like a

5293
04:12:01,199 --> 04:12:02,880
cookie cutter down.

5294
04:12:02,880 --> 04:12:06,239
And to our old mayor's point, like we've

5295
04:12:06,239 --> 04:12:08,239
developed nine, you know, like nine out

5296
04:12:08,239 --> 04:12:11,920
of maybe nine out of 15 lots already.

5297
04:12:11,920 --> 04:12:16,080
So, we've got 40% left or 30% left. So,

5298
04:12:16,080 --> 04:12:18,800
it's not going to ever look uniform. Not

5299
04:12:18,800 --> 04:12:21,920
at this point.

5300
04:12:21,920 --> 04:12:25,279
>> That was good. Um,

5301
04:12:25,279 --> 04:12:27,920
where are we like on the document?

5302
04:12:27,920 --> 04:12:29,040
>> Appendix B.

5303
04:12:29,040 --> 04:12:31,600
What page is that? it like

5304
04:12:31,600 --> 04:12:34,399
page on the actual document, not page in

5305
04:12:34,399 --> 04:12:35,439
the draft.

5306
04:12:35,439 --> 04:12:38,160
>> Um,

5307
04:12:38,160 --> 04:12:40,560
>> because I have it from a former meeting

5308
04:12:40,560 --> 04:12:45,590
uh where I did all my highlights

5309
04:12:45,600 --> 04:12:47,680
while he's looking that up. Andrew, is

5310
04:12:47,680 --> 04:12:50,239
it okay if I make a few more comments?

5311
04:12:50,239 --> 04:12:53,840
Okay, thanks. Um, I just I also thought

5312
04:12:53,840 --> 04:12:55,760
this was interesting under high priority

5313
04:12:55,760 --> 04:12:58,000
topics. The first one talks about

5314
04:12:58,000 --> 04:12:59,920
incorporate dimensional requirements to

5315
04:12:59,920 --> 04:13:02,640
build form and massing standards. And I

5316
04:13:02,640 --> 04:13:05,120
think that that's some way a way we can

5317
04:13:05,120 --> 04:13:08,319
kind of codify that idea is like through

5318
04:13:08,319 --> 04:13:11,760
coming up with some sort of ordinance.

5319
04:13:11,760 --> 04:13:13,359
Do you guys feel I don't know. I feel

5320
04:13:13,359 --> 04:13:16,640
like that's needed.

5321
04:13:16,640 --> 04:13:18,479
>> What's needed? I didn't understand.

5322
04:13:18,479 --> 04:13:20,880
>> Some sort of form and massing massing

5323
04:13:20,880 --> 04:13:23,920
standards forming.

5324
04:13:23,920 --> 04:13:26,080
Yeah. And then also section two talks

5325
04:13:26,080 --> 04:13:27,760
about height and it says refers to

5326
04:13:27,760 --> 04:13:29,600
maximum heights established by zoning

5327
04:13:29,600 --> 04:13:32,000
regulations and recommends compat

5328
04:13:32,000 --> 04:13:34,239
compatibility of new buildings with

5329
04:13:34,239 --> 04:13:36,720
historic structures. So to me that means

5330
04:13:36,720 --> 04:13:39,439
like and maybe I'm interpreting this

5331
04:13:39,439 --> 04:13:42,080
incorrectly but you know that having

5332
04:13:42,080 --> 04:13:44,560
some sort of height

5333
04:13:44,560 --> 04:13:47,920
uh ordinance in relation to the zoning

5334
04:13:47,920 --> 04:13:50,399
that is compatible to those homes in

5335
04:13:50,399 --> 04:13:54,000
that area would be also a way to

5336
04:13:54,000 --> 04:13:55,040
>> kind of have a measure.

5337
04:13:55,040 --> 04:13:56,399
>> You've switched gears because the main

5338
04:13:56,399 --> 04:13:57,680
street guideline only applies to

5339
04:13:57,680 --> 04:13:59,359
commercial.

5340
04:13:59,359 --> 04:14:00,239
>> Oh right.

5341
04:14:00,239 --> 04:14:02,399
>> Well that's still helpful for that area,

5342
04:14:02,399 --> 04:14:04,080
don't you think? Yeah, I mean we've got

5343
04:14:04,080 --> 04:14:06,080
pretty big commercial

5344
04:14:06,080 --> 04:14:07,760
>> and and those old homes are going to be

5345
04:14:07,760 --> 04:14:10,000
gone. That's the whole intent.

5346
04:14:10,000 --> 04:14:11,439
>> That was going on what you were saying.

5347
04:14:11,439 --> 04:14:13,199
I think we have a couple streets where

5348
04:14:13,199 --> 04:14:14,880
there are a lot of residents who own

5349
04:14:14,880 --> 04:14:17,040
them, but they have full intention to

5350
04:14:17,040 --> 04:14:19,199
turn them commercial right around here.

5351
04:14:19,199 --> 04:14:22,399
>> That's what I'm saying. We can't control

5352
04:14:22,399 --> 04:14:23,760
>> like everything we've talked about

5353
04:14:23,760 --> 04:14:26,479
brick, black, blah, we can't control

5354
04:14:26,479 --> 04:14:28,479
residential. We can only control um

5355
04:14:28,479 --> 04:14:29,359
commercial.

5356
04:14:29,359 --> 04:14:29,760
>> So,

5357
04:14:29,760 --> 04:14:31,359
>> I don't want to say control, but have

5358
04:14:31,359 --> 04:14:34,560
restrictions. So will you appendix B is

5359
04:14:34,560 --> 04:14:36,239
about what? Because I'm looking through

5360
04:14:36,239 --> 04:14:37,279
it right now. I just want to make sure

5361
04:14:37,279 --> 04:14:38,720
I'm giving the right comments about the

5362
04:14:38,720 --> 04:14:41,199
right topic because I see the roofing

5363
04:14:41,199 --> 04:14:42,960
the materials.

5364
04:14:42,960 --> 04:14:44,080
>> Appendix B

5365
04:14:44,080 --> 04:14:46,080
>> secondary dwelling units. Are you

5366
04:14:46,080 --> 04:14:48,080
>> we went over and we critiqued the

5367
04:14:48,080 --> 04:14:49,760
original guidelines and this is their

5368
04:14:49,760 --> 04:14:51,439
feed. This is their summary of our

5369
04:14:51,439 --> 04:14:52,080
feedback.

5370
04:14:52,080 --> 04:14:52,560
>> Okay.

5371
04:14:52,560 --> 04:14:54,479
>> The steering committee critiqued the

5372
04:14:54,479 --> 04:14:56,000
original guidelines.

5373
04:14:56,000 --> 04:14:58,000
>> Then they wrote the new guidelines which

5374
04:14:58,000 --> 04:14:59,600
we've already gone over. So it's more of

5375
04:14:59,600 --> 04:15:02,560
a it's more of back to front like

5376
04:15:02,560 --> 04:15:04,319
>> you keep preparing traffic but it's okay

5377
04:15:04,319 --> 04:15:06,399
I guess if so is this about the style

5378
04:15:06,399 --> 04:15:07,199
and the

5379
04:15:07,199 --> 04:15:08,960
>> Yeah. So we talked about that last time

5380
04:15:08,960 --> 04:15:09,840
if you recall

5381
04:15:09,840 --> 04:15:11,199
>> and so we're just continuing that

5382
04:15:11,199 --> 04:15:14,640
>> and so I just wanted us to so we

5383
04:15:14,640 --> 04:15:16,239
in order that we complete the entire

5384
04:15:16,239 --> 04:15:17,920
document since we didn't get to appendix

5385
04:15:17,920 --> 04:15:19,279
B. I just wanted to open up one more

5386
04:15:19,279 --> 04:15:21,279
chance for you guys to talk about

5387
04:15:21,279 --> 04:15:22,960
>> I think this was probably understood

5388
04:15:22,960 --> 04:15:25,439
mine are pretty simple. I think the draw

5389
04:15:25,439 --> 04:15:29,760
from our h our design comes less from

5390
04:15:29,760 --> 04:15:32,000
what I think I like or someone else

5391
04:15:32,000 --> 04:15:37,040
thinks they like and more from what

5392
04:15:37,040 --> 04:15:39,439
translates well to our mountains which

5393
04:15:39,439 --> 04:15:42,560
are granite evergreen trees to the east

5394
04:15:42,560 --> 04:15:45,840
it's more of a warm color and then our

5395
04:15:45,840 --> 04:15:48,640
pioneer heritage those will guide that

5396
04:15:48,640 --> 04:15:50,800
is our identity those will guide what

5397
04:15:50,800 --> 04:15:53,760
kind of rock what kind of wood what kind

5398
04:15:53,760 --> 04:15:54,880
of metal

5399
04:15:54,880 --> 04:15:57,199
Um, right now every city is moving

5400
04:15:57,199 --> 04:16:03,030
towards sort of a rustic

5401
04:16:03,040 --> 04:16:06,479
kind of like a uh

5402
04:16:06,479 --> 04:16:11,439
Springville type uh Lehi type look. Uh,

5403
04:16:11,439 --> 04:16:13,680
I think Alpine is I don't want to say

5404
04:16:13,680 --> 04:16:15,040
elevated because it puts them down, but

5405
04:16:15,040 --> 04:16:17,840
Alpine is a little different. Uh, it has

5406
04:16:17,840 --> 04:16:20,880
that European Alpine mountain which does

5407
04:16:20,880 --> 04:16:22,159
separate. It's a little less I don't

5408
04:16:22,159 --> 04:16:23,279
know how to say this. is a little less

5409
04:16:23,279 --> 04:16:26,560
cowboy, a little bit more idealistic.

5410
04:16:26,560 --> 04:16:29,920
Um, and so when we make these decisions

5411
04:16:29,920 --> 04:16:31,760
about, if you don't like that, that's

5412
04:16:31,760 --> 04:16:34,720
just my opinion. But, uh, we didn't name

5413
04:16:34,720 --> 04:16:36,560
it Mountainville. Like, that was going

5414
04:16:36,560 --> 04:16:37,840
to be the name. It was going to be

5415
04:16:37,840 --> 04:16:39,760
Mountainville. And Mountainville is

5416
04:16:39,760 --> 04:16:41,760
Lehi. That's that's like the kind of the

5417
04:16:41,760 --> 04:16:43,439
culture and the and the look and the

5418
04:16:43,439 --> 04:16:45,760
feel. They named it Alpine because it

5419
04:16:45,760 --> 04:16:48,239
it's a little bit different. And so if

5420
04:16:48,239 --> 04:16:50,640
you're going to choose colors, uh if

5421
04:16:50,640 --> 04:16:53,040
you're going to choose materials, if you

5422
04:16:53,040 --> 04:16:55,920
can harmonize those, harmonize them with

5423
04:16:55,920 --> 04:16:58,479
the granite, mountain, and evergreen

5424
04:16:58,479 --> 04:17:00,800
trees, it will complement each other

5425
04:17:00,800 --> 04:17:02,640
very well. And if you can, if you can

5426
04:17:02,640 --> 04:17:05,040
harmonize them culturally with the

5427
04:17:05,040 --> 04:17:06,880
pioneer heritage, you will create a

5428
04:17:06,880 --> 04:17:09,199
unique design language, unique and

5429
04:17:09,199 --> 04:17:12,720
identifiable and valuable to Alpine.

5430
04:17:12,720 --> 04:17:14,800
>> So do you have anything specific? So,

5431
04:17:14,800 --> 04:17:17,199
we're going over like height, primary

5432
04:17:17,199 --> 04:17:18,800
materials. So, if you're talking about

5433
04:17:18,800 --> 04:17:21,199
primary materials, so far we have wood,

5434
04:17:21,199 --> 04:17:22,880
masonry, brick, and stone.

5435
04:17:22,880 --> 04:17:24,720
>> Do you have anything other than that to

5436
04:17:24,720 --> 04:17:26,800
add?

5437
04:17:26,800 --> 04:17:28,800
>> Um,

5438
04:17:28,800 --> 04:17:30,720
not not specific. I could probably try

5439
04:17:30,720 --> 04:17:33,279
to get more specifics. I when but what

5440
04:17:33,279 --> 04:17:35,439
I'm thinking of is when we're asking

5441
04:17:35,439 --> 04:17:37,279
masonry and when we're talking about

5442
04:17:37,279 --> 04:17:40,239
that we we put it up against the test of

5443
04:17:40,239 --> 04:17:42,960
does that fit that Utah historic which

5444
04:17:42,960 --> 04:17:43,840
is a little different than other

5445
04:17:43,840 --> 04:17:46,720
historic but but it would also give

5446
04:17:46,720 --> 04:17:51,840
basis for why to include something. So right now exactly what you're talking

5447
04:17:51,840 --> 04:17:54,000
about is very much where I where I go

5448
04:17:54,000 --> 04:17:56,640
all the time DC this brick and black

5449
04:17:56,640 --> 04:18:00,479
window is very east coast very east

5450
04:18:00,479 --> 04:18:02,080
coast. I see it. I think it's cute in

5451
04:18:02,080 --> 04:18:03,439
Boston. I think it's cool on the streets

5452
04:18:03,439 --> 04:18:06,319
of DC, but I never think of Rocky

5453
04:18:06,319 --> 04:18:09,199
Mountain Alpine as, and this is no

5454
04:18:09,199 --> 04:18:10,399
disrespect to the planning commission. I

5455
04:18:10,399 --> 04:18:12,159
love that they're researching it, but it

5456
04:18:12,159 --> 04:18:17,120
is very much not west coast um or or uh

5457
04:18:17,120 --> 04:18:20,880
mountain west uh bricks, all brick. I I

5458
04:18:20,880 --> 04:18:22,239
think there's a place for it, but it is

5459
04:18:22,239 --> 04:18:24,080
not all brick. It is more using the

5460
04:18:24,080 --> 04:18:26,399
materials that we are around, which is

5461
04:18:26,399 --> 04:18:29,840
timber, uh granite. Uh I mean when you

5462
04:18:29,840 --> 04:18:31,760
go to the Salt Lake Temple they have

5463
04:18:31,760 --> 04:18:34,479
taken granite as far as you can take it

5464
04:18:34,479 --> 04:18:36,640
not just at the temple but in the whole

5465
04:18:36,640 --> 04:18:39,760
surrounding area every sign every uh

5466
04:18:39,760 --> 04:18:42,159
building has some sort of hearkening

5467
04:18:42,159 --> 04:18:43,520
back to granite even though it doesn't

5468
04:18:43,520 --> 04:18:44,640
come from there it comes from another

5469
04:18:44,640 --> 04:18:47,359
canyon closer to us. Um so anyways that

5470
04:18:47,359 --> 04:18:49,120
that's kind of the that's kind of the

5471
04:18:49,120 --> 04:18:50,640
overarching theme because I'm hearing

5472
04:18:50,640 --> 04:18:53,359
people say no wood and I think it's an

5473
04:18:53,359 --> 04:18:55,199
opinion. I don't think it's based on

5474
04:18:55,199 --> 04:18:58,800
history or our geography and the colors

5475
04:18:58,800 --> 04:19:01,279
and the textures and the materials that

5476
04:19:01,279 --> 04:19:02,479
reflect well. So when you go to

5477
04:19:02,479 --> 04:19:03,520
Switzerland,

5478
04:19:03,520 --> 04:19:05,279
>> they have done this well. They have

5479
04:19:05,279 --> 04:19:07,680
decided how far to place the houses

5480
04:19:07,680 --> 04:19:09,359
apart, how close to put them to the

5481
04:19:09,359 --> 04:19:10,640
mountains, how high to make them, and

5482
04:19:10,640 --> 04:19:12,640
what materials and what colors go well

5483
04:19:12,640 --> 04:19:14,720
with that green and granite mountain.

5484
04:19:14,720 --> 04:19:16,319
And they've done a great job. So much

5485
04:19:16,319 --> 04:19:17,840
that people just want to go to visit to

5486
04:19:17,840 --> 04:19:20,000
look at it. We have the same elements,

5487
04:19:20,000 --> 04:19:23,120
>> right? Um, but we have uh not honed it

5488
04:19:23,120 --> 04:19:24,720
as close because we probably don't have

5489
04:19:24,720 --> 04:19:26,640
the resources.

5490
04:19:26,640 --> 04:19:28,479
>> I'm just gonna say though that there is

5491
04:19:28,479 --> 04:19:31,279
the Alpine name, but having spent a

5492
04:19:31,279 --> 04:19:33,439
couple days now in Hebrew and you were

5493
04:19:33,439 --> 04:19:36,000
in the Wasuch Valley for a while, they

5494
04:19:36,000 --> 04:19:37,920
have a distinct European feel that

5495
04:19:37,920 --> 04:19:39,359
they're trying to get in the midway

5496
04:19:39,359 --> 04:19:41,840
Hebrew look that is not

5497
04:19:41,840 --> 04:19:44,399
>> that is not Alpine Utah. So even though

5498
04:19:44,399 --> 04:19:47,680
we have the name, I don't think we're going to that European.

5499
04:19:47,680 --> 04:19:49,199
>> No, no, I wasn't saying European.

5500
04:19:49,199 --> 04:19:50,720
>> Okay. I'm just wanting to clarify that.

5501
04:19:50,720 --> 04:19:52,880
>> But but I do think there is 10% of that.

5502
04:19:52,880 --> 04:19:53,840
I do think there is 10%.

5503
04:19:53,840 --> 04:19:55,439
>> Right. But it's not the predominant.

5504
04:19:55,439 --> 04:19:56,960
>> No, I think it's more historic and

5505
04:19:56,960 --> 04:19:59,120
religious that cultural thing that came

5506
04:19:59,120 --> 04:20:04,399
in and it's not um hyper uh I'm trying

5507
04:20:04,399 --> 04:20:07,840
to find it's not ritzy like but it says

5508
04:20:07,840 --> 04:20:08,800
plain and simple.

5509
04:20:08,800 --> 04:20:11,920
>> Yes, we are moving that way. And so um

5510
04:20:11,920 --> 04:20:14,080
so anyways to go to specifics, if we're

5511
04:20:14,080 --> 04:20:15,840
going to talk about brick, I would not

5512
04:20:15,840 --> 04:20:17,840
mandate everyone use only brick

5513
04:20:17,840 --> 04:20:19,680
everywhere. I would not m that just

5514
04:20:19,680 --> 04:20:20,880
because I think there's a place for it.

5515
04:20:20,880 --> 04:20:22,159
I don't think it should be all that. I

5516
04:20:22,159 --> 04:20:24,880
think we're missing our geography and

5517
04:20:24,880 --> 04:20:26,720
our history on that.

5518
04:20:26,720 --> 04:20:28,080
>> So, Andrew,

5519
04:20:28,080 --> 04:20:30,000
>> let's let's do this. Let's just get

5520
04:20:30,000 --> 04:20:31,680
primary materials out of the way since

5521
04:20:31,680 --> 04:20:32,880
we're talking about this.

5522
04:20:32,880 --> 04:20:33,520
>> Right. So, I was

5523
04:20:33,520 --> 04:20:35,439
>> we have wood, masonry, brick, stone. Is

5524
04:20:35,439 --> 04:20:36,800
there something you want to add to that

5525
04:20:36,800 --> 04:20:39,520
list or take out from that list?

5526
04:20:39,520 --> 04:20:40,960
>> Um, no, there's nothing.

5527
04:20:40,960 --> 04:20:42,960
>> Okay. And then if you go to Yeah, just

5528
04:20:42,960 --> 04:20:45,600
after this. Um, just want to get Andrews

5529
04:20:45,600 --> 04:20:47,520
and then we can move on. Town center.

5530
04:20:47,520 --> 04:20:49,439
They're saying wood, masonry,

5531
04:20:49,439 --> 04:20:52,720
brickstone, glass for storefronts.

5532
04:20:52,720 --> 04:20:54,000
Is there anything you want to add or

5533
04:20:54,000 --> 04:20:57,359
take away from their suggestions for

5534
04:20:57,359 --> 04:20:59,120
primary materials?

5535
04:20:59,120 --> 04:21:02,080
>> Um, no. Like we people are using more

5536
04:21:02,080 --> 04:21:05,600
metals. We don't address metals, uh,

5537
04:21:05,600 --> 04:21:07,680
like metallics and people are using them

5538
04:21:07,680 --> 04:21:08,800
a lot more. And also,

5539
04:21:08,800 --> 04:21:11,199
>> it doesn't sound like that's allowed as

5540
04:21:11,199 --> 04:21:12,880
a primary material. So, do you want to

5541
04:21:12,880 --> 04:21:14,000
add metal to it?

5542
04:21:14,000 --> 04:21:15,680
>> No. No. I'm just since we're addressing

5543
04:21:15,680 --> 04:21:16,880
it, I'm just bringing them up to talk

5544
04:21:16,880 --> 04:21:17,600
about it.

5545
04:21:17,600 --> 04:21:19,279
>> Right. So, right now

5546
04:21:19,279 --> 04:21:22,080
>> I don't have when I'm looking at this.

5547
04:21:22,080 --> 04:21:23,760
Metal is not allowed as a primary

5548
04:21:23,760 --> 04:21:25,439
material. Correct. Correct.

5549
04:21:25,439 --> 04:21:27,279
>> Okay. So, you don't want to add it. I'm

5550
04:21:27,279 --> 04:21:28,479
just trying to move this along.

5551
04:21:28,479 --> 04:21:30,000
>> Feel free to move it along. I appreciate

5552
04:21:30,000 --> 04:21:31,120
your comments. I'll try to get more

5553
04:21:31,120 --> 04:21:32,479
specific. Go ahead.

5554
04:21:32,479 --> 04:21:34,319
>> If you have specifics for us, please let

5555
04:21:34,319 --> 04:21:35,279
us know.

5556
04:21:35,279 --> 04:21:37,199
>> Jessica, do you have anything for the

5557
04:21:37,199 --> 04:21:38,960
primary material you would like to add

5558
04:21:38,960 --> 04:21:39,760
or remove?

5559
04:21:39,760 --> 04:21:42,560
>> Nope. for either zone, whether it's the

5560
04:21:42,560 --> 04:21:45,120
civic and mixed use or town center, you

5561
04:21:45,120 --> 04:21:46,960
want to keep it the way it is.

5562
04:21:46,960 --> 04:21:48,080
>> Uh Sarah,

5563
04:21:48,080 --> 04:21:50,080
>> um don't hate me, but I actually found

5564
04:21:50,080 --> 04:21:52,239
out that stucco is historic. They used

5565
04:21:52,239 --> 04:21:54,399
it to cover adobe brick. So, I would be

5566
04:21:54,399 --> 04:21:55,600
okay with putting stuckco,

5567
04:21:55,600 --> 04:21:57,520
>> but it wouldn't be a primary material.

5568
04:21:57,520 --> 04:21:58,159
Would it?

5569
04:21:58,159 --> 04:22:00,479
>> Maybe a secondary material. I I mean I

5570
04:22:00,479 --> 04:22:02,399
think that's like when you say primary

5571
04:22:02,399 --> 04:22:03,760
material and I don't know if we need to

5572
04:22:03,760 --> 04:22:06,159
get into like percentage of primary or

5573
04:22:06,159 --> 04:22:09,439
if it's just 49% and 51%.

5574
04:22:09,439 --> 04:22:12,319
>> Or I'm wondering is it okay if I'm

5575
04:22:12,319 --> 04:22:15,359
looking at if we want businesses to come

5576
04:22:15,359 --> 04:22:17,680
into Alpine we have to also have it

5577
04:22:17,680 --> 04:22:18,720
pencil in

5578
04:22:18,720 --> 04:22:21,120
>> so to require everyone to do granite. I

5579
04:22:21,120 --> 04:22:22,399
don't know if that's going to pencil in

5580
04:22:22,399 --> 04:22:24,239
for everybody. I know it was just a

5581
04:22:24,239 --> 04:22:26,399
suggestion but I love the idea. I love

5582
04:22:26,399 --> 04:22:27,920
the look of it and I get what you're

5583
04:22:27,920 --> 04:22:29,760
coming from. But we also have to look at

5584
04:22:29,760 --> 04:22:32,239
it as we want to invite businesses to

5585
04:22:32,239 --> 04:22:34,319
come if that's what we really want. I

5586
04:22:34,319 --> 04:22:35,840
don't want a ton of businesses to come,

5587
04:22:35,840 --> 04:22:40,640
but I do want some small town unique

5588
04:22:40,640 --> 04:22:42,800
hopefully thriving businesses. Not too

5589
04:22:42,800 --> 04:22:46,960
thriving though. Anyways, but I like the

5590
04:22:46,960 --> 04:22:49,279
idea of the wood masonry brick and

5591
04:22:49,279 --> 04:22:51,199
stone. But I'm wondering if you guys are

5592
04:22:51,199 --> 04:22:53,680
meable to have stucco maybe like on the

5593
04:22:53,680 --> 04:22:56,960
back where it's not facing the street or

5594
04:22:56,960 --> 04:22:58,640
do you know what I mean? and that would

5595
04:22:58,640 --> 04:23:01,520
fall under secondary material, right?

5596
04:23:01,520 --> 04:23:04,560
So, yes, I am I understand that it needs

5597
04:23:04,560 --> 04:23:07,840
to be feasible for business owners and

5598
04:23:07,840 --> 04:23:10,880
to be able to allow some kind of

5599
04:23:10,880 --> 04:23:13,760
flexibility in a secondary material as

5600
04:23:13,760 --> 04:23:16,479
Stuckco. The challenge is if we don't

5601
04:23:16,479 --> 04:23:19,279
again put it in that description, then

5602
04:23:19,279 --> 04:23:20,960
we'll end up with certain buildings that

5603
04:23:20,960 --> 04:23:21,279
are

5604
04:23:21,279 --> 04:23:22,960
>> totally primary. I'm wondering if we

5605
04:23:22,960 --> 04:23:24,479
want to say like if we want to allow

5606
04:23:24,479 --> 04:23:27,920
stucco so that it is more affordable and

5607
04:23:27,920 --> 04:23:30,880
can pencil in easier that we not even

5608
04:23:30,880 --> 04:23:33,680
secondary but kind of say maybe in the

5609
04:23:33,680 --> 04:23:35,600
rear where it's not street facing where

5610
04:23:35,600 --> 04:23:37,199
you can't see it from Main Street. Like

5611
04:23:37,199 --> 04:23:38,800
I'm okay if we can't see it from Main

5612
04:23:38,800 --> 04:23:40,800
Street. I like the idea of having these

5613
04:23:40,800 --> 04:23:43,520
natural materials facing Main Street. On

5614
04:23:43,520 --> 04:23:44,960
the other side where the parking lot is,

5615
04:23:44,960 --> 04:23:47,760
it can be stuckco in my mind.

5616
04:23:47,760 --> 04:23:49,120
>> But I don't know. What do you guys

5617
04:23:49,120 --> 04:23:49,520
think?

5618
04:23:49,520 --> 04:23:52,000
>> Is there any historic usage? Well, you

5619
04:23:52,000 --> 04:23:53,359
guys have been looking at the historical

5620
04:23:53,359 --> 04:23:55,520
houses where they used a stucco type

5621
04:23:55,520 --> 04:23:56,080
look.

5622
04:23:56,080 --> 04:23:58,000
>> Yes, they did. The adobe bricks were

5623
04:23:58,000 --> 04:23:59,359
made out of mud. So to make them

5624
04:23:59,359 --> 04:24:00,960
weatherproof, they used a stucco

5625
04:24:00,960 --> 04:24:02,720
material to cover them so that they

5626
04:24:02,720 --> 04:24:04,000
didn't erode.

5627
04:24:04,000 --> 04:24:05,680
>> Okay. And then

5628
04:24:05,680 --> 04:24:08,000
>> it is Can I follow up with that? Think

5629
04:24:08,000 --> 04:24:09,520
about what she's saying. They didn't

5630
04:24:09,520 --> 04:24:11,359
have access to better materials. That

5631
04:24:11,359 --> 04:24:13,359
was the best they could do. So I'm okay

5632
04:24:13,359 --> 04:24:15,520
if we upgrade it and say the front needs

5633
04:24:15,520 --> 04:24:17,600
to be nicer, but the back is still stuck

5634
04:24:17,600 --> 04:24:18,000
as

5635
04:24:18,000 --> 04:24:19,600
>> Yeah, I'm okay with that, too. Like you

5636
04:24:19,600 --> 04:24:21,279
know what I mean? They what your whole

5637
04:24:21,279 --> 04:24:22,479
story is they didn't have anything

5638
04:24:22,479 --> 04:24:23,760
better. So that's the best thing they

5639
04:24:23,760 --> 04:24:25,520
could do. We have access to better

5640
04:24:25,520 --> 04:24:26,720
materials than the modern day.

5641
04:24:26,720 --> 04:24:28,080
>> Hey, can I get a word? Can I get a word

5642
04:24:28,080 --> 04:24:29,520
in edgewise? Of course.

5643
04:24:29,520 --> 04:24:30,560
>> No.

5644
04:24:30,560 --> 04:24:31,840
>> You know what? We're coming to you. I'm

5645
04:24:31,840 --> 04:24:33,040
sorry. It's just that you're

5646
04:24:33,040 --> 04:24:34,800
>> This is so important. No. No. I'm just

5647
04:24:34,800 --> 04:24:36,080
going to say I really like the direction

5648
04:24:36,080 --> 04:24:39,439
you're going. I agree. Thanks.

5649
04:24:39,439 --> 04:24:40,319
>> Oh my god.

5650
04:24:40,319 --> 04:24:40,880
>> He said,

5651
04:24:40,880 --> 04:24:43,279
>> uh, on the Was that really it, Brent?

5652
04:24:43,279 --> 04:24:44,000
>> Yep.

5653
04:24:44,000 --> 04:24:44,399
>> Okay.

5654
04:24:44,399 --> 04:24:46,399
>> Yeah. I I I don't think we should just

5655
04:24:46,399 --> 04:24:48,399
be brick. I when I first heard that from

5656
04:24:48,399 --> 04:24:49,760
the planning commission, bless their

5657
04:24:49,760 --> 04:24:51,520
hearts, I really appreciate all they do,

5658
04:24:51,520 --> 04:24:53,840
but for the remaining property we have,

5659
04:24:53,840 --> 04:24:55,199
I just don't don't see it all being

5660
04:24:55,199 --> 04:24:56,239
brick. I just don't think that's going

5661
04:24:56,239 --> 04:24:57,120
to be very nice.

5662
04:24:57,120 --> 04:24:59,359
>> Are you okay with the primary materials

5663
04:24:59,359 --> 04:25:01,199
that they listed and then allowing

5664
04:25:01,199 --> 04:25:03,520
Stuckco to the side that is not facing

5665
04:25:03,520 --> 04:25:04,479
Main Street?

5666
04:25:04,479 --> 04:25:04,880
>> Yeah.

5667
04:25:04,880 --> 04:25:05,439
>> Yes.

5668
04:25:05,439 --> 04:25:07,359
>> Would that be amendable?

5669
04:25:07,359 --> 04:25:08,960
>> Okay. So,

5670
04:25:08,960 --> 04:25:11,279
>> two things, mayor. On the primary

5671
04:25:11,279 --> 04:25:13,439
materials where it said Sorry, was

5672
04:25:13,439 --> 04:25:14,560
something someone wanted to say

5673
04:25:14,560 --> 04:25:14,720
something?

5674
04:25:14,720 --> 04:25:16,479
>> Oh, I'll jump in after you. Yeah. on the

5675
04:25:16,479 --> 04:25:18,239
primary materials. Something has come up

5676
04:25:18,239 --> 04:25:19,840
recently where there is a difference

5677
04:25:19,840 --> 04:25:22,640
between wood, faux wood, and then also

5678
04:25:22,640 --> 04:25:25,520
wood um like surfacing. I don't know

5679
04:25:25,520 --> 04:25:28,399
what they call it uh and then just like

5680
04:25:28,399 --> 04:25:31,279
wood beams. Do we specify that or is it

5681
04:25:31,279 --> 04:25:32,640
just blanket wood?

5682
04:25:32,640 --> 04:25:34,479
>> No, we probably I agree.

5683
04:25:34,479 --> 04:25:36,000
>> I don't know if we need to Well, they

5684
04:25:36,000 --> 04:25:37,760
they've had problems with it. I I don't

5685
04:25:37,760 --> 04:25:38,880
have a problem with it. I think it's

5686
04:25:38,880 --> 04:25:42,399
fine. But the the stucco um I I don't

5687
04:25:42,399 --> 04:25:44,479
know if we should make that prohibited

5688
04:25:44,479 --> 04:25:48,399
or mandated as just to be behind things

5689
04:25:48,399 --> 04:25:50,640
for two reasons.

5690
04:25:50,640 --> 04:25:54,239
One, our entire city building is stuckco

5691
04:25:54,239 --> 04:25:56,800
and I think to help have some sort of

5692
04:25:56,800 --> 04:25:58,560
cohesion. That's why I thought the fire

5693
04:25:58,560 --> 04:26:00,319
station did some cohesion because it had

5694
04:26:00,319 --> 04:26:04,159
some stucco. Um I just it will just make

5695
04:26:04,159 --> 04:26:06,640
us look out of it will make this area

5696
04:26:06,640 --> 04:26:09,359
look foreign and not part of the

5697
04:26:09,359 --> 04:26:11,760
community and we don't want government

5698
04:26:11,760 --> 04:26:14,560
to be not part of the community. Um

5699
04:26:14,560 --> 04:26:16,880
anyways I'm just I just I just don't

5700
04:26:16,880 --> 04:26:19,279
know how we banish it and that we have

5701
04:26:19,279 --> 04:26:21,199
so many buildings that are stucco or

5702
04:26:21,199 --> 04:26:24,159
older that look that way. I would be

5703
04:26:24,159 --> 04:26:26,239
happy to make it a secondary material or

5704
04:26:26,239 --> 04:26:28,560
something smaller. Um, but if it is

5705
04:26:28,560 --> 04:26:30,319
being used historic and we have it in so

5706
04:26:30,319 --> 04:26:33,120
many places already. Uh, I mean that's

5707
04:26:33,120 --> 04:26:35,600
just my two cents on that that the metal

5708
04:26:35,600 --> 04:26:38,880
panels on the secondary material. I'm

5709
04:26:38,880 --> 04:26:41,040
more trying to find out why.

5710
04:26:41,040 --> 04:26:41,520
>> Yeah.

5711
04:26:41,520 --> 04:26:43,920
>> Why why historically and even art and I

5712
04:26:43,920 --> 04:26:46,080
I'm not putting down our signs, okay?

5713
04:26:46,080 --> 04:26:47,279
They're not what I would have ever

5714
04:26:47,279 --> 04:26:49,840
imagined and they're not what original

5715
04:26:49,840 --> 04:26:51,600
signs looked like. original signs in

5716
04:26:51,600 --> 04:26:54,159
Alpine were stone or stucco like our

5717
04:26:54,159 --> 04:26:56,720
alpine sign when you come in or mud

5718
04:26:56,720 --> 04:26:58,720
however that was made you know on Alpine

5719
04:26:58,720 --> 04:27:01,760
Highway. Um I don't know what

5720
04:27:01,760 --> 04:27:05,680
justification we have for metal or glass

5721
04:27:05,680 --> 04:27:07,760
a little bit but metal I don't know

5722
04:27:07,760 --> 04:27:09,359
where that's coming from.

5723
04:27:09,359 --> 04:27:11,439
>> Well I think it's beyond histo like I

5724
04:27:11,439 --> 04:27:13,120
don't think we want to feel like we have

5725
04:27:13,120 --> 04:27:15,359
to be stuck back in a different century.

5726
04:27:15,359 --> 04:27:17,760
It's just a modern material. Like if you

5727
04:27:17,760 --> 04:27:17,920
look

5728
04:27:17,920 --> 04:27:19,439
>> Well, I know. But if we diffuse it to

5729
04:27:19,439 --> 04:27:21,680
anything, then we lose.

5730
04:27:21,680 --> 04:27:23,760
>> It's a secondary material. Two examples

5731
04:27:23,760 --> 04:27:26,880
on our our own main street are the old

5732
04:27:26,880 --> 04:27:31,120
um the Mountainville Academy is meant to

5733
04:27:31,120 --> 04:27:33,520
look like our original schoolhouse

5734
04:27:33,520 --> 04:27:37,279
>> and the whole roof is metal roof. Okay.

5735
04:27:37,279 --> 04:27:40,399
Montadela, the senior living that is

5736
04:27:40,399 --> 04:27:43,359
slowly coming out of the ground. It has

5737
04:27:43,359 --> 04:27:45,520
metal roofs, but it has the the

5738
04:27:45,520 --> 04:27:47,439
architectural lines are give it a

5739
04:27:47,439 --> 04:27:49,120
different feel that is not modern at

5740
04:27:49,120 --> 04:27:50,560
all. Both buildings you would never say

5741
04:27:50,560 --> 04:27:52,800
are contemporary or modern. So, it's

5742
04:27:52,800 --> 04:27:54,720
just a secondary material as

5743
04:27:54,720 --> 04:27:56,880
>> I I'm just looking for a justification.

5744
04:27:56,880 --> 04:27:58,319
And even what you just said, there was

5745
04:27:58,319 --> 04:28:00,640
no justification. It's just preference,

5746
04:28:00,640 --> 04:28:02,399
which is fine. No, I'm saying it's just

5747
04:28:02,399 --> 04:28:04,479
a secondary material, but it doesn't

5748
04:28:04,479 --> 04:28:06,640
ruin the historic feel of the building,

5749
04:28:06,640 --> 04:28:08,399
>> but it has no reason that I see.

5750
04:28:08,399 --> 04:28:10,560
>> Well, I actually think historically, if

5751
04:28:10,560 --> 04:28:12,159
we're going to lean into that, that the

5752
04:28:12,159 --> 04:28:14,720
old Lambert homestead did have a metal

5753
04:28:14,720 --> 04:28:17,120
roof. That's why it met its demise

5754
04:28:17,120 --> 04:28:19,760
because during the depression, they came

5755
04:28:19,760 --> 04:28:22,720
and took the metal roof. And that's so

5756
04:28:22,720 --> 04:28:25,439
metal as a roofing material. I then

5757
04:28:25,439 --> 04:28:26,640
maybe specify

5758
04:28:26,640 --> 04:28:28,239
>> Can we say not on the side of a

5759
04:28:28,239 --> 04:28:30,239
building? Because once you take metal

5760
04:28:30,239 --> 04:28:32,000
and you put it on the outside of a

5761
04:28:32,000 --> 04:28:32,880
building,

5762
04:28:32,880 --> 04:28:35,040
>> you've moved it into a different

5763
04:28:35,040 --> 04:28:36,880
>> a Silicon Valley. I live in these metal

5764
04:28:36,880 --> 04:28:39,680
>> building as a metal roof. Again, you

5765
04:28:39,680 --> 04:28:41,359
have to think about

5766
04:28:41,359 --> 04:28:43,520
>> um the history component. It isn't

5767
04:28:43,520 --> 04:28:46,399
excluded as a roofing option.

5768
04:28:46,399 --> 04:28:47,840
>> Okay, which I stand corrected and you've

5769
04:28:47,840 --> 04:28:48,960
shown me why it's historically

5770
04:28:48,960 --> 04:28:50,880
justified. I live in buildings where I

5771
04:28:50,880 --> 04:28:53,279
work that are all concrete floors,

5772
04:28:53,279 --> 04:28:55,439
chiseled hard lines, and metal

5773
04:28:55,439 --> 04:28:56,720
everywhere.

5774
04:28:56,720 --> 04:28:58,319
>> Well, I think we could put prohibited

5775
04:28:58,319 --> 04:29:00,319
materials,

5776
04:29:00,319 --> 04:29:02,159
you know, metal. I don't know where it

5777
04:29:02,159 --> 04:29:03,439
would actually fit in.

5778
04:29:03,439 --> 04:29:04,399
>> Metal on walls.

5779
04:29:04,399 --> 04:29:06,960
>> Yeah, metal as a I don't know. I'm sure

5780
04:29:06,960 --> 04:29:09,279
there's an architectural way to say, you

5781
04:29:09,279 --> 04:29:12,640
know, on the outside. Maybe only roofs.

5782
04:29:12,640 --> 04:29:13,520
>> Yeah,

5783
04:29:13,520 --> 04:29:15,760
>> that's probably a better way to say

5784
04:29:15,760 --> 04:29:20,239
>> uh of an alpine history. and uh um

5785
04:29:20,239 --> 04:29:23,760
geographic tie-in than metal. But I I'm

5786
04:29:23,760 --> 04:29:25,279
not I think they're in a good place

5787
04:29:25,279 --> 04:29:26,319
where they're not in the primary

5788
04:29:26,319 --> 04:29:27,680
materials, both of them. So

5789
04:29:27,680 --> 04:29:28,159
>> yeah, I think

5790
04:29:28,159 --> 04:29:29,920
>> What about roof only? Like would you

5791
04:29:29,920 --> 04:29:31,600
>> I think roof only is fine.

5792
04:29:31,600 --> 04:29:32,960
>> Would they use metal roof? Is that what

5793
04:29:32,960 --> 04:29:34,080
they they would use?

5794
04:29:34,080 --> 04:29:36,239
>> Yeah, it was probably tin. I don't know.

5795
04:29:36,239 --> 04:29:37,840
I just know that the reason that that

5796
04:29:37,840 --> 04:29:40,239
house, it's not much older than a lot of

5797
04:29:40,239 --> 04:29:41,439
homes, you know, that are still

5798
04:29:41,439 --> 04:29:43,600
standing, but it had a tin or

5799
04:29:43,600 --> 04:29:44,800
>> It's a good thing you bring up because

5800
04:29:44,800 --> 04:29:45,199
when you

5801
04:29:45,199 --> 04:29:46,880
>> during the depression, they used

5802
04:29:46,880 --> 04:29:48,319
everything that they could

5803
04:29:48,319 --> 04:29:49,359
>> and so it didn't.

5804
04:29:49,359 --> 04:29:51,439
>> Hey, just just for the record, I I voted

5805
04:29:51,439 --> 04:29:53,520
for a metal roof for city hall.

5806
04:29:53,520 --> 04:29:54,720
>> Me, too.

5807
04:29:54,720 --> 04:29:56,479
>> Well, when I you are bringing up a

5808
04:29:56,479 --> 04:29:58,239
point, when you go to Wimbledon and you

5809
04:29:58,239 --> 04:30:00,000
see the thatch roofs, it is such an

5810
04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:02,640
identifying feature that iconicizes that

5811
04:30:02,640 --> 04:30:05,920
area and enders it. I have not spent the

5812
04:30:05,920 --> 04:30:08,319
time to realize, yeah, the detail of

5813
04:30:08,319 --> 04:30:10,479
choosing our roofs would really make a

5814
04:30:10,479 --> 04:30:12,319
big impact. Or if you go where there's

5815
04:30:12,319 --> 04:30:15,600
the uh the um the wood uh slated roof

5816
04:30:15,600 --> 04:30:17,040
where in Southern California where you

5817
04:30:17,040 --> 04:30:20,640
go and it's the the more clay orange um

5818
04:30:20,640 --> 04:30:21,520
what do they call them?

5819
04:30:21,520 --> 04:30:22,479
>> Spanish tile roof.

5820
04:30:22,479 --> 04:30:24,800
>> Spanish tiles. They're so identifiable.

5821
04:30:24,800 --> 04:30:26,479
So, I think there should be some time in

5822
04:30:26,479 --> 04:30:28,000
at least looking into what do we want

5823
04:30:28,000 --> 04:30:29,279
the roofs to look like.

5824
04:30:29,279 --> 04:30:31,120
>> You have to remember in the commercial

5825
04:30:31,120 --> 04:30:32,319
area, they're allowed to have flat

5826
04:30:32,319 --> 04:30:34,640
roofs. So, it's really not a big deal.

5827
04:30:34,640 --> 04:30:35,920
>> Well, I'm just saying whatever we

5828
04:30:35,920 --> 04:30:38,239
decide, I think it will be very uh

5829
04:30:38,239 --> 04:30:40,000
impactful and consequential.

5830
04:30:40,000 --> 04:30:41,279
>> So, it sounds like we're in agreement

5831
04:30:41,279 --> 04:30:43,279
for the primary materials. The secondary

5832
04:30:43,279 --> 04:30:45,439
materials, maybe we remove metal panels

5833
04:30:45,439 --> 04:30:48,159
and just reserve that for roofing. And

5834
04:30:48,159 --> 04:30:50,640
then maybe we could also add stucco as

5835
04:30:50,640 --> 04:30:52,239
secondary materials, but then also

5836
04:30:52,239 --> 04:30:57,600
include stucco for non street facing um

5837
04:30:57,600 --> 04:30:59,199
aspects of a building.

5838
04:30:59,199 --> 04:31:00,399
>> That was a nice sum up.

5839
04:31:00,399 --> 04:31:02,960
>> Yes, I guess. So, if I understand this

5840
04:31:02,960 --> 04:31:05,199
correctly, and I still am pretty new

5841
04:31:05,199 --> 04:31:07,600
here, but I think that those

5842
04:31:07,600 --> 04:31:10,239
specificities would be codified. And as

5843
04:31:10,239 --> 04:31:11,920
far as this document goes, you would

5844
04:31:11,920 --> 04:31:14,720
want to be as general as possible.

5845
04:31:14,720 --> 04:31:18,319
>> Um, so like metal on sighting only,

5846
04:31:18,319 --> 04:31:20,080
unless you really want to add that into

5847
04:31:20,080 --> 04:31:21,920
this document, I think you could wait

5848
04:31:21,920 --> 04:31:24,080
until the codification process comes up

5849
04:31:24,080 --> 04:31:26,080
and then and then add that in. I think

5850
04:31:26,080 --> 04:31:28,080
the challenge we have if it's if it's in

5851
04:31:28,080 --> 04:31:29,760
a visioning document then you get people

5852
04:31:29,760 --> 04:31:31,760
that point to it and then we get into

5853
04:31:31,760 --> 04:31:32,640
this

5854
04:31:32,640 --> 04:31:34,720
>> well it exists in the visioning

5855
04:31:34,720 --> 04:31:36,880
document. So but are you saying that

5856
04:31:36,880 --> 04:31:38,880
we're going to

5857
04:31:38,880 --> 04:31:40,399
>> clean all that up and it will end up

5858
04:31:40,399 --> 04:31:41,920
being codified and that will be the

5859
04:31:41,920 --> 04:31:42,800
directing document.

5860
04:31:42,800 --> 04:31:44,080
>> That's what I understand. I don't know

5861
04:31:44,080 --> 04:31:45,439
if there's

5862
04:31:45,439 --> 04:31:47,359
>> Didn't we apply for a grant to put this

5863
04:31:47,359 --> 04:31:48,479
all into ordinances?

5864
04:31:48,479 --> 04:31:50,399
>> Yes. And we got the grant.

5865
04:31:50,399 --> 04:31:53,840
>> Oh sweet don't we need the language? I

5866
04:31:53,840 --> 04:31:55,199
feel like the language needs to be

5867
04:31:55,199 --> 04:31:57,359
aligned. If we know we're moving from

5868
04:31:57,359 --> 04:32:00,560
words to code, we can't have well, we

5869
04:32:00,560 --> 04:32:03,600
have metal, but we didn't really specify

5870
04:32:03,600 --> 04:32:06,080
it was for roofs only in our visioning

5871
04:32:06,080 --> 04:32:08,880
document. It's now we have to

5872
04:32:08,880 --> 04:32:11,600
>> I think I think we need to give like

5873
04:32:11,600 --> 04:32:13,600
overall feedback to our planning

5874
04:32:13,600 --> 04:32:16,080
commission and let them mince out each

5875
04:32:16,080 --> 04:32:18,239
line of our new ordinances, whatever

5876
04:32:18,239 --> 04:32:19,520
they may be. Well, they are

5877
04:32:19,520 --> 04:32:22,399
>> Kaden Kaden's understanding our vision

5878
04:32:22,399 --> 04:32:24,159
and some of these things like there's

5879
04:32:24,159 --> 04:32:25,680
other things we want to edit in this in

5880
04:32:25,680 --> 04:32:28,319
the vision document but to get it into

5881
04:32:28,319 --> 04:32:30,560
ordinance. That's when like we're

5882
04:32:30,560 --> 04:32:32,560
counting on

5883
04:32:32,560 --> 04:32:34,560
planning commission. I'm talking to you,

5884
04:32:34,560 --> 04:32:36,880
listen to this discussion so you can

5885
04:32:36,880 --> 04:32:38,800
kind of wrap your mind around where

5886
04:32:38,800 --> 04:32:41,040
we're going and then they write the

5887
04:32:41,040 --> 04:32:41,920
ordinances.

5888
04:32:41,920 --> 04:32:44,720
>> But Chrissy, if we don't really spell it

5889
04:32:44,720 --> 04:32:47,600
out, it starts to go a different

5890
04:32:47,600 --> 04:32:50,319
direction. And so because we're going to

5891
04:32:50,319 --> 04:32:52,640
loop them back in, we need to make sure

5892
04:32:52,640 --> 04:32:55,040
that when they're looped back in, they

5893
04:32:55,040 --> 04:32:58,720
see this is those directions or else

5894
04:32:58,720 --> 04:33:00,560
they're going to spend now 15 minutes on

5895
04:33:00,560 --> 04:33:02,720
metal, which we already know where we're

5896
04:33:02,720 --> 04:33:04,959
>> I also think we need to get architecture

5897
04:33:04,959 --> 04:33:06,480
people with a background in architecture

5898
04:33:06,480 --> 04:33:09,840
involved because what we say does maybe

5899
04:33:09,840 --> 04:33:12,480
doesn't mean to them what it means. Like

5900
04:33:12,480 --> 04:33:13,600
you know what I'm saying? Like they have

5901
04:33:13,600 --> 04:33:15,199
words for like when I was talking to

5902
04:33:15,199 --> 04:33:17,439
them, they use like fenstration. Like

5903
04:33:17,439 --> 04:33:19,279
they have these words. So if they can

5904
04:33:19,279 --> 04:33:21,760
put it in the architecture language,

5905
04:33:21,760 --> 04:33:23,520
then every other architect on the planet

5906
04:33:23,520 --> 04:33:24,719
will know what they're saying where

5907
04:33:24,719 --> 04:33:26,320
we're just trying to use common language

5908
04:33:26,320 --> 04:33:27,600
at this point. Do you know what I'm

5909
04:33:27,600 --> 04:33:27,920
saying?

5910
04:33:27,920 --> 04:33:29,760
>> That's fair. Do you need uh do you need

5911
04:33:29,760 --> 04:33:32,561
us to give you more vision statements

5912
04:33:32,561 --> 04:33:35,760
that we all agree on? Like when we say

5913
04:33:35,760 --> 04:33:37,760
Utah historic, can that be added in as

5914
04:33:37,760 --> 04:33:39,520
like a thesis for why we're making these

5915
04:33:39,520 --> 04:33:44,879
decisions? We are trying to um

5916
04:33:44,879 --> 04:33:48,719
uh illustrate uh Utah historic and we

5917
04:33:48,719 --> 04:33:50,639
define it or I'm saying what I do they

5918
04:33:50,639 --> 04:33:53,680
might change it. I define it as uh

5919
04:33:53,680 --> 04:33:56,160
geographic mountainous

5920
04:33:56,160 --> 04:34:00,561
granite timber and rock with a large uh

5921
04:34:00,561 --> 04:34:04,000
influence from pioneer heritage. Uh

5922
04:34:04,000 --> 04:34:05,600
could could we put that in there so they

5923
04:34:05,600 --> 04:34:07,359
know why the why and then if new

5924
04:34:07,359 --> 04:34:09,520
materials are invented or come and go.

5925
04:34:09,520 --> 04:34:11,920
Yeah. So I would say all that would go

5926
04:34:11,920 --> 04:34:13,279
into this part about the design

5927
04:34:13,279 --> 04:34:15,119
guidelines update if you want to include

5928
04:34:15,119 --> 04:34:16,959
any language like that

5929
04:34:16,959 --> 04:34:19,439
>> and the council's in agreement. Anything

5930
04:34:19,439 --> 04:34:20,879
can be added this point. That's where

5931
04:34:20,879 --> 04:34:21,680
we're going to

5932
04:34:21,680 --> 04:34:23,760
>> we have a thesis we all agree on as to

5933
04:34:23,760 --> 04:34:28,390
what guides our design principles.

5934
04:34:28,400 --> 04:34:30,561
» Um I just have another thought off topic

5935
04:34:30,561 --> 04:34:32,639
off of that topic but

5936
04:34:32,639 --> 04:34:35,920
>> well just kind of sorry I don't want to

5937
04:34:35,920 --> 04:34:38,879
I I agree. I think Utah historic is kind

5938
04:34:38,879 --> 04:34:42,240
of like our thesis. That's I mean that's

5939
04:34:42,240 --> 04:34:44,400
kind of what's guided us. But I I like

5940
04:34:44,400 --> 04:34:47,119
that. Not just keeping it to one, you

5941
04:34:47,119 --> 04:34:50,879
know, 10 years of Utah history, but also

5942
04:34:50,879 --> 04:34:52,879
kind of having a little flexibility that

5943
04:34:52,879 --> 04:34:53,680
way

5944
04:34:53,680 --> 04:34:56,080
>> too. Some creativity. I like what you

5945
04:34:56,080 --> 04:34:58,561
said about mountains. I mean, we live in

5946
04:34:58,561 --> 04:35:00,561
a very beautiful place and the mountains

5947
04:35:00,561 --> 04:35:01,199
are like,

5948
04:35:01,199 --> 04:35:03,680
>> well, most cities are guided in their

5949
04:35:03,680 --> 04:35:07,359
design by their geographic visual design

5950
04:35:07,359 --> 04:35:09,359
language. If they're by an ocean, you

5951
04:35:09,359 --> 04:35:11,039
notice the colors they choose. Someone

5952
04:35:11,039 --> 04:35:12,639
figures it out and it complements

5953
04:35:12,639 --> 04:35:15,199
literally the wavelength of a blue or an

5954
04:35:15,199 --> 04:35:18,080
orange behaves differently when set next

5955
04:35:18,080 --> 04:35:20,400
to its compliment or its tertiary color,

5956
04:35:20,400 --> 04:35:22,320
which is right next to it. And they

5957
04:35:22,320 --> 04:35:24,000
realize that and it is gratifying. Just

5958
04:35:24,000 --> 04:35:25,039
like you taste something, you're like,

5959
04:35:25,039 --> 04:35:27,039
"Oh, that goes good with that." versus

5960
04:35:27,039 --> 04:35:28,400
that does not go good with that. It's

5961
04:35:28,400 --> 04:35:29,439
the same thing that happens in your

5962
04:35:29,439 --> 04:35:31,680
eyes. And so most things are geography

5963
04:35:31,680 --> 04:35:34,000
based. We just have this rare additional

5964
04:35:34,000 --> 04:35:35,840
thing where we also have a historical

5965
04:35:35,840 --> 04:35:39,039
thing that can add um texture and

5966
04:35:39,039 --> 04:35:41,119
importance overlapping that to make it

5967
04:35:41,119 --> 04:35:42,959
truly unique. And so that's why I'm just

5968
04:35:42,959 --> 04:35:45,199
saying if we can articulate that unique

5969
04:35:45,199 --> 04:35:48,320
thing, we will not become a half version

5970
04:35:48,320 --> 04:35:50,000
of Boston

5971
04:35:50,000 --> 04:35:52,080
>> that that is never really that great.

5972
04:35:52,080 --> 04:35:52,959
And so

5973
04:35:52,959 --> 04:35:55,039
>> no matter what we do, it's not going to

5974
04:35:55,039 --> 04:35:58,320
be unique. Utah Historic is not a unique

5975
04:35:58,320 --> 04:36:01,359
thing to Alpine. What all we're doing is

5976
04:36:01,359 --> 04:36:04,000
we're going for a look and feel that is

5977
04:36:04,000 --> 04:36:06,561
similar and something that we want.

5978
04:36:06,561 --> 04:36:09,439
Keeping in mind that most of our main

5979
04:36:09,439 --> 04:36:11,840
street is built built out already.

5980
04:36:11,840 --> 04:36:13,600
There's limited number of lots where

5981
04:36:13,600 --> 04:36:15,680
there are older homes that I'm assuming

5982
04:36:15,680 --> 04:36:18,080
that that will change.

5983
04:36:18,080 --> 04:36:21,119
now to I guess what I don't like about

5984
04:36:21,119 --> 04:36:23,520
what you're suggesting is I like having

5985
04:36:23,520 --> 04:36:27,039
the vision but it has to be broad enough

5986
04:36:27,039 --> 04:36:28,959
kind of like what Sarah was saying is I

5987
04:36:28,959 --> 04:36:32,080
don't want to limit it to just a 10year

5988
04:36:32,080 --> 04:36:34,400
period in our history where they did

5989
04:36:34,400 --> 04:36:38,160
this this this and this. Um

5990
04:36:38,160 --> 04:36:40,000
>> okay well if you have a better thesis we

5991
04:36:40,000 --> 04:36:41,920
can I I'll support it. I just don't know

5992
04:36:41,920 --> 04:36:45,199
what else our identity is designwise.

5993
04:36:45,199 --> 04:36:48,320
I think what we do is let's first just

5994
04:36:48,320 --> 04:36:50,561
go through this, okay? And then we can

5995
04:36:50,561 --> 04:36:52,160
talk about this later. I would like to

5996
04:36:52,160 --> 04:36:56,070
get this table

5997
04:36:56,080 --> 04:36:58,719
to a point where we all agree.

5998
04:36:58,719 --> 04:37:01,039
>> So we've gone to the secondary

5999
04:37:01,039 --> 04:37:04,719
materials. So um Kaden looks like metal

6000
04:37:04,719 --> 04:37:08,639
panels are out. Now prohibited materials

6001
04:37:08,639 --> 04:37:11,119
looks like you know for the main um for

6002
04:37:11,119 --> 04:37:13,119
the civic and mixed juice it doesn't

6003
04:37:13,119 --> 04:37:15,359
apply but they are saying for town

6004
04:37:15,359 --> 04:37:17,920
center stucco

6005
04:37:17,920 --> 04:37:21,840
sighting and EFS are prohibited. My

6006
04:37:21,840 --> 04:37:24,240
understanding was in talking to y'all

6007
04:37:24,240 --> 04:37:27,600
that you were okay with stucco on

6008
04:37:27,600 --> 04:37:29,680
non-main street facing build

6009
04:37:29,680 --> 04:37:30,080
>> yes

6010
04:37:30,080 --> 04:37:31,359
>> side of the building.

6011
04:37:31,359 --> 04:37:33,680
>> So should we move stucco and EFS up to

6012
04:37:33,680 --> 04:37:37,279
secondary only? I think stucco I I'm not

6013
04:37:37,279 --> 04:37:39,840
fully against stucco because I think it

6014
04:37:39,840 --> 04:37:41,760
does have some bases only being in the

6015
04:37:41,760 --> 04:37:43,840
back. I think something like minor

6016
04:37:43,840 --> 04:37:46,639
stucco or tertiary stucco or secondary.

6017
04:37:46,639 --> 04:37:48,400
>> Well, that's why she said secondary,

6018
04:37:48,400 --> 04:37:49,600
>> right? Secondary. But but we're

6019
04:37:49,600 --> 04:37:52,000
clarifying that secondary with not in

6020
04:37:52,000 --> 04:37:52,799
view. Not in

6021
04:37:52,799 --> 04:37:54,639
>> to me secondary is less than what are we

6022
04:37:54,639 --> 04:37:57,760
going to say? 51% 49 less than 50%.

6023
04:37:57,760 --> 04:37:59,119
>> No, no. The only thing I'm bringing up

6024
04:37:59,119 --> 04:38:02,320
is you want it uh not visible. So So I

6025
04:38:02,320 --> 04:38:04,561
just visible.

6026
04:38:04,561 --> 04:38:07,039
So, I'll just give you an example. I had

6027
04:38:07,039 --> 04:38:09,039
met with somebody recently who g showed

6028
04:38:09,039 --> 04:38:12,320
me a plan of their possible development

6029
04:38:12,320 --> 04:38:15,199
on Main Street

6030
04:38:15,199 --> 04:38:18,000
and I guess I'm trying to word things so

6031
04:38:18,000 --> 04:38:21,119
that it doesn't end up looking like that

6032
04:38:21,119 --> 04:38:21,760
>> which

6033
04:38:21,760 --> 04:38:22,561
>> Okay. Well,

6034
04:38:22,561 --> 04:38:24,879
>> was working backwards.

6035
04:38:24,879 --> 04:38:26,719
>> Okay. I Yeah, if if you want to make it

6036
04:38:26,719 --> 04:38:28,400
to the back, I just think there's place.

6037
04:38:28,400 --> 04:38:30,080
>> It doesn't have to be in the back, but I

6038
04:38:30,080 --> 04:38:31,920
think you can put secondary material.

6039
04:38:31,920 --> 04:38:33,359
>> That's I'm I'm with you on that. I'm

6040
04:38:33,359 --> 04:38:34,480
with you on that.

6041
04:38:34,480 --> 04:38:36,959
>> And I like Chrissy's suggestion that you

6042
04:38:36,959 --> 04:38:39,680
move stucco and EFS to secondary

6043
04:38:39,680 --> 04:38:41,439
material. Sarah, did you have something

6044
04:38:41,439 --> 04:38:41,920
else?

6045
04:38:41,920 --> 04:38:43,520
>> Yeah, I think on prohibited materials,

6046
04:38:43,520 --> 04:38:45,359
we don't want like vinyl, right? We

6047
04:38:45,359 --> 04:38:46,719
don't want vinyl sighting. Am I

6048
04:38:46,719 --> 04:38:49,119
correcting for the main street civic and

6049
04:38:49,119 --> 04:38:51,600
mixed use as well as town center? One

6050
04:38:51,600 --> 04:38:53,039
thought though that I had with sighting,

6051
04:38:53,039 --> 04:38:55,359
if we're talking about wood is, you

6052
04:38:55,359 --> 04:38:57,600
know, we look at the knot and pine and

6053
04:38:57,600 --> 04:38:59,279
some of the other buildings that have

6054
04:38:59,279 --> 04:39:01,920
wood, I think wood sighting looks nice.

6055
04:39:01,920 --> 04:39:04,879
But that's my opinion. So maybe

6056
04:39:04,879 --> 04:39:07,520
>> you could say noiding.

6057
04:39:07,520 --> 04:39:12,230
I mean that would be a way to

6058
04:39:12,240 --> 04:39:15,920
clarify that

6059
04:39:15,920 --> 04:39:17,119
>> um I was talking to a member of the

6060
04:39:17,119 --> 04:39:18,400
planning commission and they mentioned

6061
04:39:18,400 --> 04:39:22,000
the city in California again pass

6062
04:39:22,000 --> 04:39:23,840
and they actually define secondary

6063
04:39:23,840 --> 04:39:26,400
materials to be less than a certain

6064
04:39:26,400 --> 04:39:29,439
percentage of the facade. So I don't

6065
04:39:29,439 --> 04:39:30,639
know where we're going to land on that

6066
04:39:30,639 --> 04:39:33,039
but something to define what is a

6067
04:39:33,039 --> 04:39:36,320
secondary material is less than 30%. I

6068
04:39:36,320 --> 04:39:37,920
don't know like come up with something

6069
04:39:37,920 --> 04:39:39,440
but that's their charge is to come up

6070
04:39:39,440 --> 04:39:40,958
with something is what does

6071
04:39:40,958 --> 04:39:44,000
>> I like the 1/3 23. So yeah

6072
04:39:44,000 --> 04:39:46,320
>> 30% or less.

6073
04:39:46,320 --> 04:39:47,600
>> Okay let's move on.

6074
04:39:47,600 --> 04:39:49,600
>> Hey how about how about you talked about

6075
04:39:49,600 --> 04:39:51,600
main street facing. What about the side

6076
04:39:51,600 --> 04:39:53,040
facing that also that are also street

6077
04:39:53,040 --> 04:39:56,240
facing? So corner lots. I mean, that's

6078
04:39:56,240 --> 04:39:58,080
part of our look, too. As you come at a

6079
04:39:58,080 --> 04:40:00,560
at an intersection, you're going to see

6080
04:40:00,560 --> 04:40:02,878
both sides of the building, not just the

6081
04:40:02,878 --> 04:40:05,040
front.

6082
04:40:05,040 --> 04:40:07,120
>> I think it just says street facing. So,

6083
04:40:07,120 --> 04:40:09,760
street facing would capture.

6084
04:40:09,760 --> 04:40:11,280
>> Okay. So, she said main street. So,

6085
04:40:11,280 --> 04:40:12,798
Carlos said main street. So, street

6086
04:40:12,798 --> 04:40:14,160
facing is fine.

6087
04:40:14,160 --> 04:40:14,798
>> Okay.

6088
04:40:14,798 --> 04:40:17,440
So, let's move on to glazing.

6089
04:40:17,440 --> 04:40:19,120
>> Mayor, did we do the top one, the height

6090
04:40:19,120 --> 04:40:20,240
one? Are we going over there? No,

6091
04:40:20,240 --> 04:40:21,520
because you started talking about

6092
04:40:21,520 --> 04:40:23,280
materials and I just wanted to start

6093
04:40:23,280 --> 04:40:25,120
ticking this off so that we can get out

6094
04:40:25,120 --> 04:40:26,480
of here before midnight.

6095
04:40:26,480 --> 04:40:27,760
>> Do you want to talk about height later?

6096
04:40:27,760 --> 04:40:29,920
>> We will once we finish this section and

6097
04:40:29,920 --> 04:40:31,600
then we can go back up to the height and

6098
04:40:31,600 --> 04:40:33,120
then we can go on to the windows and

6099
04:40:33,120 --> 04:40:34,958
doors. How's that?

6100
04:40:34,958 --> 04:40:35,920
>> I just didn't know.

6101
04:40:35,920 --> 04:40:37,920
>> Kayen, did you have a comment?

6102
04:40:37,920 --> 04:40:40,240
>> Oh, I was just going to say um so if I'm

6103
04:40:40,240 --> 04:40:42,798
understanding this table right, the NA

6104
04:40:42,798 --> 04:40:44,320
means that there are no prohibited

6105
04:40:44,320 --> 04:40:46,718
materials in that section. So that could

6106
04:40:46,718 --> 04:40:48,958
be an option as well if you just put NA

6107
04:40:48,958 --> 04:40:50,560
on this side.

6108
04:40:50,560 --> 04:40:53,120
>> I don't know if you have to necessarily

6109
04:40:53,120 --> 04:40:55,440
>> say stucco it will just be prohibited by

6110
04:40:55,440 --> 04:40:57,920
def or it will be allowed by default. Um

6111
04:40:57,920 --> 04:40:59,600
and that can be hashed out in the code

6112
04:40:59,600 --> 04:41:01,520
once it's codified.

6113
04:41:01,520 --> 04:41:03,600
>> I think there was just it was just a

6114
04:41:03,600 --> 04:41:04,638
suggestion but

6115
04:41:04,638 --> 04:41:06,718
>> no I think we don't want any guessing.

6116
04:41:06,718 --> 04:41:08,480
So if it's allowed it's listed.

6117
04:41:08,480 --> 04:41:10,400
>> When you refer to sighting are you

6118
04:41:10,400 --> 04:41:12,798
referring to aluminum sighting?

6119
04:41:12,798 --> 04:41:14,958
>> I think all siding.

6120
04:41:14,958 --> 04:41:16,080
>> Okay. Well,

6121
04:41:16,080 --> 04:41:17,120
>> so no wood sighting.

6122
04:41:17,120 --> 04:41:17,760
>> I like wood sighting

6123
04:41:17,760 --> 04:41:19,040
>> because there are some sightings.

6124
04:41:19,040 --> 04:41:20,080
>> Natural sighting.

6125
04:41:20,080 --> 04:41:21,360
>> There's very different. I mean, aluminum

6126
04:41:21,360 --> 04:41:22,240
sighting is very different.

6127
04:41:22,240 --> 04:41:24,798
>> So prohibitive. Why don't you just put

6128
04:41:24,798 --> 04:41:26,240
um faux

6129
04:41:26,240 --> 04:41:28,400
>> synthetic sighting? Oh, no. That metal

6130
04:41:28,400 --> 04:41:29,040
is not synthetic.

6131
04:41:29,040 --> 04:41:30,320
>> Aluminum isn't synthetic.

6132
04:41:30,320 --> 04:41:33,120
>> We don't want faux wood. We don't want

6133
04:41:33,120 --> 04:41:34,160
vinyl. We don't want

6134
04:41:34,160 --> 04:41:36,160
>> Well, how about prohibitive materials is

6135
04:41:36,160 --> 04:41:37,760
faux wood.

6136
04:41:37,760 --> 04:41:38,080
>> Well,

6137
04:41:38,080 --> 04:41:39,600
>> and then the sight it can be sighting,

6138
04:41:39,600 --> 04:41:41,600
but it's that will leave it as real.

6139
04:41:41,600 --> 04:41:43,600
>> Real wood. Yeah. Well, one thing that's

6140
04:41:43,600 --> 04:41:45,040
happening though, and I this is

6141
04:41:45,040 --> 04:41:45,840
interesting, is that

6142
04:41:45,840 --> 04:41:47,680
>> it was Hardy Back or Fauxwood?

6143
04:41:47,680 --> 04:41:48,080
>> Yes.

6144
04:41:48,080 --> 04:41:49,680
>> Right. Well, Chrissy, one thing on this

6145
04:41:49,680 --> 04:41:52,480
that I think could be problematic is

6146
04:41:52,480 --> 04:41:54,160
there will be a lot of people who want

6147
04:41:54,160 --> 04:41:57,360
to meet our guidelines like and make get

6148
04:41:57,360 --> 04:41:59,840
that Utah historic feel, but it will be

6149
04:41:59,840 --> 04:42:02,480
more expensive to do, but they can still

6150
04:42:02,480 --> 04:42:05,760
get it in a uh synthetic way like faux

6151
04:42:05,760 --> 04:42:07,680
wood, like for example, they can get

6152
04:42:07,680 --> 04:42:09,200
it's like like for example stone, like

6153
04:42:09,200 --> 04:42:10,320
she was saying, granite. Who's going to

6154
04:42:10,320 --> 04:42:13,040
afford granite? And so you can afford

6155
04:42:13,040 --> 04:42:14,958
granite if it looks like granite, but

6156
04:42:14,958 --> 04:42:16,160
it's actually fake.

6157
04:42:16,160 --> 04:42:18,080
>> I think I going back to Brent's comments

6158
04:42:18,080 --> 04:42:19,920
when the person said if you do real

6159
04:42:19,920 --> 04:42:21,920
wood, it's timeless. It's just never

6160
04:42:21,920 --> 04:42:22,878
it's not dated at all.

6161
04:42:22,878 --> 04:42:24,798
>> Oh, I agree. I I I prefer wood.

6162
04:42:24,798 --> 04:42:26,638
>> So if we if we leave faux wood as a

6163
04:42:26,638 --> 04:42:28,080
prohibited, it allows

6164
04:42:28,080 --> 04:42:28,958
>> is faux wood prohibited.

6165
04:42:28,958 --> 04:42:30,400
>> Real wood as sighting.

6166
04:42:30,400 --> 04:42:32,240
>> Where is faux wood? Is it prohibited?

6167
04:42:32,240 --> 04:42:33,680
>> No, I added it.

6168
04:42:33,680 --> 04:42:36,080
>> Oh, I I just don't know. you might limit

6169
04:42:36,080 --> 04:42:37,680
some people that could do it more

6170
04:42:37,680 --> 04:42:40,080
affordably and be able to pull off a

6171
04:42:40,080 --> 04:42:41,920
Utah historic look with

6172
04:42:41,920 --> 04:42:42,878
>> That's true.

6173
04:42:42,878 --> 04:42:44,160
>> That's a true statement. That's a

6174
04:42:44,160 --> 04:42:44,638
reality.

6175
04:42:44,638 --> 04:42:46,718
>> Well, so I just I don't know if we limit

6176
04:42:46,718 --> 04:42:47,680
it.

6177
04:42:47,680 --> 04:42:49,600
>> Yeah, that was my concern as well. Just

6178
04:42:49,600 --> 04:42:51,120
with this being a guiding document, I

6179
04:42:51,120 --> 04:42:52,480
don't know how much limit we want to

6180
04:42:52,480 --> 04:42:54,718
really put on on the guiding document

6181
04:42:54,718 --> 04:42:56,798
itself. I think we could wait till the

6182
04:42:56,798 --> 04:42:59,440
code for that. Well, that is in

6183
04:42:59,440 --> 04:43:01,680
inconsistent and the primary materials

6184
04:43:01,680 --> 04:43:04,718
say wood, but then the prohibited

6185
04:43:04,718 --> 04:43:06,798
materials say sighting. So, I just think

6186
04:43:06,798 --> 04:43:10,000
we need to clarify faux sighting, which

6187
04:43:10,000 --> 04:43:12,400
then captures everything that isn't

6188
04:43:12,400 --> 04:43:13,360
natural wood.

6189
04:43:13,360 --> 04:43:14,638
>> Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

6190
04:43:14,638 --> 04:43:17,120
>> Right. Like we allow woods, but then how

6191
04:43:17,120 --> 04:43:18,958
do we allow wood? Because some people

6192
04:43:18,958 --> 04:43:23,440
would define siding as

6193
04:43:23,440 --> 04:43:25,040
>> wood. And we have a bit we have a

6194
04:43:25,040 --> 04:43:26,638
commercial building basically all wood

6195
04:43:26,638 --> 04:43:27,840
on the outside.

6196
04:43:27,840 --> 04:43:29,200
>> Well, we have several.

6197
04:43:29,200 --> 04:43:30,560
>> Yeah. Yeah.

6198
04:43:30,560 --> 04:43:33,120
>> So, I don't know. We'll limit people's

6199
04:43:33,120 --> 04:43:35,440
ability to to to do it. And I I haven't

6200
04:43:35,440 --> 04:43:36,878
seen faux wood where I'm like really

6201
04:43:36,878 --> 04:43:38,560
happy with it, but I haven't seen a bad

6202
04:43:38,560 --> 04:43:39,600
example.

6203
04:43:39,600 --> 04:43:41,680
>> Some great wood in town.

6204
04:43:41,680 --> 04:43:43,920
>> Oh yeah, that's beautiful. Oh my gosh.

6205
04:43:43,920 --> 04:43:47,590
What are we doing?

6206
04:43:47,600 --> 04:43:48,400
» Amazing.

6207
04:43:48,400 --> 04:43:50,240
>> Well, today it looks amazing. It's brand

6208
04:43:50,240 --> 04:43:50,560
new.

6209
04:43:50,560 --> 04:43:54,080
>> Yeah. Would you show this is

6210
04:43:54,080 --> 04:43:54,718
But still,

6211
04:43:54,718 --> 04:43:58,080
>> look at how even not kept up that wood.

6212
04:43:58,080 --> 04:44:00,160
>> That's That's the artist Kerpatrick,

6213
04:44:00,160 --> 04:44:00,878
right?

6214
04:44:00,878 --> 04:44:03,760
>> It's not newly stained, but it looks

6215
04:44:03,760 --> 04:44:05,120
>> Okay, guys. It does look awesome. Can we

6216
04:44:05,120 --> 04:44:05,520
move?

6217
04:44:05,520 --> 04:44:06,638
>> Sorry. We're geeking out over

6218
04:44:06,638 --> 04:44:07,600
>> I know. Let's just move on.

6219
04:44:07,600 --> 04:44:08,798
>> We're geeking out over wood.

6220
04:44:08,798 --> 04:44:11,520
>> Okay, we're going on to glazing.

6221
04:44:11,520 --> 04:44:12,480
>> Okay.

6222
04:44:12,480 --> 04:44:14,718
Are you okay with the wording? Oh,

6223
04:44:14,718 --> 04:44:16,958
no, no, no, no, no, no. Um, ground

6224
04:44:16,958 --> 04:44:19,280
floor, none allowed. upper floors, none

6225
04:44:19,280 --> 04:44:21,440
allowed on.

6226
04:44:21,440 --> 04:44:27,440
And then um for the town

6227
04:44:27,440 --> 04:44:29,680
um zone, it's none allowed. Refle

6228
04:44:29,680 --> 04:44:31,600
non-reflective glass storefronts

6229
04:44:31,600 --> 04:44:35,920
encouraged upper floor only 25% max. Are

6230
04:44:35,920 --> 04:44:39,120
you guys okay with those parameters?

6231
04:44:39,120 --> 04:44:39,520
>> Yes.

6232
04:44:39,520 --> 04:44:41,600
>> I I don't know what glazing is. I'm

6233
04:44:41,600 --> 04:44:42,160
sorry.

6234
04:44:42,160 --> 04:44:44,000
>> It says reflective glass right there.

6235
04:44:44,000 --> 04:44:46,080
Like I I don't understand where how it's

6236
04:44:46,080 --> 04:44:48,000
used um in a building

6237
04:44:48,000 --> 04:44:49,920
>> mirrored like it's reflective

6238
04:44:49,920 --> 04:44:51,760
>> like on the exterior of a building.

6239
04:44:51,760 --> 04:44:52,320
>> Yes.

6240
04:44:52,320 --> 04:44:54,320
>> On glass. I'm going to go with that. The

6241
04:44:54,320 --> 04:44:55,840
architects knew that what they were

6242
04:44:55,840 --> 04:44:58,000
doing and I appreciated their

6243
04:44:58,000 --> 04:44:59,360
descriptions.

6244
04:44:59,360 --> 04:44:59,840
>> Okay.

6245
04:44:59,840 --> 04:45:01,520
>> Do we do we want to continue with this

6246
04:45:01,520 --> 04:45:02,878
because technically we reviewed this

6247
04:45:02,878 --> 04:45:04,080
already. Um

6248
04:45:04,080 --> 04:45:05,040
>> yes we did.

6249
04:45:05,040 --> 04:45:07,120
>> So should we jump over to now what we

6250
04:45:07,120 --> 04:45:08,160
were going to review today?

6251
04:45:08,160 --> 04:45:09,760
>> I would say the only piece that we

6252
04:45:09,760 --> 04:45:11,840
>> didn't I thought this Okay. Sorry it's

6253
04:45:11,840 --> 04:45:14,320
late. Yes, please jump over.

6254
04:45:14,320 --> 04:45:15,760
>> We talked about height later.

6255
04:45:15,760 --> 04:45:17,040
>> I think we talked about height.

6256
04:45:17,040 --> 04:45:18,320
>> Height was already discussed.

6257
04:45:18,320 --> 04:45:19,760
>> All right. Sorry, that's what

6258
04:45:19,760 --> 04:45:21,920
>> Yeah, but feel free to send me anything

6259
04:45:21,920 --> 04:45:24,240
that you want updated if the council's

6260
04:45:24,240 --> 04:45:27,200
in consent. I mean, that's what we need

6261
04:45:27,200 --> 04:45:29,280
to talk about height and making it go

6262
04:45:29,280 --> 04:45:29,760
shorter.

6263
04:45:29,760 --> 04:45:31,360
>> Okay, Kayen, let's go ahead and proceed.

6264
04:45:31,360 --> 04:45:32,560
>> Yeah, because we're not getting to the

6265
04:45:32,560 --> 04:45:34,240
character areas. That's what we really

6266
04:45:34,240 --> 04:45:35,840
need to talk about.

6267
04:45:35,840 --> 04:45:38,638
>> Okay, so let's jump here. This is the

6268
04:45:38,638 --> 04:45:41,680
part two small that's called the the

6269
04:45:41,680 --> 04:45:43,120
name of the document essentially the

6270
04:45:43,120 --> 04:45:45,760
small area plan.

6271
04:45:45,760 --> 04:45:46,718
Um

6272
04:45:46,718 --> 04:45:48,718
>> what page is this on the actual

6273
04:45:48,718 --> 04:45:50,480
document? Not

6274
04:45:50,480 --> 04:45:52,240
>> it's 24 on the actual document.

6275
04:45:52,240 --> 04:45:55,120
>> Yeah. 24 and 25. Yeah is where we're at.

6276
04:45:55,120 --> 04:45:56,400
>> I have it on a different one.

6277
04:45:56,400 --> 04:45:58,240
>> So I'll just I mean I can make a few

6278
04:45:58,240 --> 04:46:00,958
comments of what I read. Um and then

6279
04:46:00,958 --> 04:46:02,638
I'll leave it up to the council to to

6280
04:46:02,638 --> 04:46:07,280
discuss. Um, so the recommendations page

6281
04:46:07,280 --> 04:46:08,798
here,

6282
04:46:08,798 --> 04:46:10,958
um, talks about having a mixeduse

6283
04:46:10,958 --> 04:46:13,920
character in in the field. I I know this

6284
04:46:13,920 --> 04:46:16,320
was one part I think the PC was against

6285
04:46:16,320 --> 04:46:18,560
that. Um, and I think I have their

6286
04:46:18,560 --> 04:46:20,000
comments spread through this document if

6287
04:46:20,000 --> 04:46:22,080
it's the latest one, but I hope they're

6288
04:46:22,080 --> 04:46:28,480
there. Um so um strength so support

6289
04:46:28,480 --> 04:46:30,000
balance growth in new mixed area use

6290
04:46:30,000 --> 04:46:31,520
area of the field and then strengthen

6291
04:46:31,520 --> 04:46:33,440
the role of the town center area enhance

6292
04:46:33,440 --> 04:46:36,080
main street civic and mixed use area. So

6293
04:46:36,080 --> 04:46:37,760
a mixed range of housing options is

6294
04:46:37,760 --> 04:46:39,120
basically what that's talking about for

6295
04:46:39,120 --> 04:46:42,638
those. Um

6296
04:46:42,638 --> 04:46:44,320
so preserving the agriculture and open

6297
04:46:44,320 --> 04:46:47,440
space. Um

6298
04:46:47,440 --> 04:46:50,000
the the goal here is to maintain open

6299
04:46:50,000 --> 04:46:53,120
space and potentially create a linear

6300
04:46:53,120 --> 04:46:54,958
park was what was discussed a lot with

6301
04:46:54,958 --> 04:46:57,920
the planning commission. Um and I think

6302
04:46:57,920 --> 04:46:59,840
that was also discussed especially in

6303
04:46:59,840 --> 04:47:03,840
this area um the area that's going into

6304
04:47:03,840 --> 04:47:06,718
the new city core.

6305
04:47:06,718 --> 04:47:08,958
And then

6306
04:47:08,958 --> 04:47:10,480
there should be a unified branding

6307
04:47:10,480 --> 04:47:13,120
approach to promote wayfinding and and

6308
04:47:13,120 --> 04:47:17,600
the gateway system. Um,

6309
04:47:17,600 --> 04:47:19,280
so those are the recommendations. I

6310
04:47:19,280 --> 04:47:20,480
don't know if anyone has anything on

6311
04:47:20,480 --> 04:47:23,680
this page or we'll move on.

6312
04:47:23,680 --> 04:47:26,878
>> Yeah. Yeah, we can pull them up.

6313
04:47:26,878 --> 04:47:29,680
>> I had one Oh, go ahead.

6314
04:47:29,680 --> 04:47:31,920
>> I'll just say that I I agree with the

6315
04:47:31,920 --> 04:47:34,080
planning commission's recommendations on

6316
04:47:34,080 --> 04:47:37,520
this section. I think they were spot on.

6317
04:47:37,520 --> 04:47:39,520
>> Was there some specific ones you wanted

6318
04:47:39,520 --> 04:47:41,120
to bring up, Brent? Because I remember

6319
04:47:41,120 --> 04:47:42,240
there were several on this one.

6320
04:47:42,240 --> 04:47:44,080
>> Yeah, they they the one was extend the

6321
04:47:44,080 --> 04:47:46,400
residential area to the southeast area

6322
04:47:46,400 --> 04:47:48,958
south of the roundabout.

6323
04:47:48,958 --> 04:47:50,718
Remove any language that identifies

6324
04:47:50,718 --> 04:47:52,718
mixeduse residential commercial in the

6325
04:47:52,718 --> 04:47:55,200
field. That area should be used as a

6326
04:47:55,200 --> 04:47:57,840
flex housing area for mixeduse housing

6327
04:47:57,840 --> 04:48:01,200
like senior housing, smaller homes, and

6328
04:48:01,200 --> 04:48:02,958
extend the area further to the north up

6329
04:48:02,958 --> 04:48:05,840
to the art center. preserve agricultural

6330
04:48:05,840 --> 04:48:08,000
and open space as identified as linear

6331
04:48:08,000 --> 04:48:09,520
park

6332
04:48:09,520 --> 04:48:11,440
and the language not consistent with

6333
04:48:11,440 --> 04:48:13,680
residential should be deleted from the

6334
04:48:13,680 --> 04:48:17,600
character areas of the field.

6335
04:48:17,600 --> 04:48:20,560
>> I I agree. Um Brent, if you turn to page

6336
04:48:20,560 --> 04:48:23,520
29, Kaden, it's easier to visualize

6337
04:48:23,520 --> 04:48:29,360
because I'm a visual person. So um the dark orange just north of the blue

6338
04:48:29,360 --> 04:48:31,200
is where they're trying to say

6339
04:48:31,200 --> 04:48:32,560
>> right there. You just passed

6340
04:48:32,560 --> 04:48:35,600
>> right there. Thank you. So, um, north of

6341
04:48:35,600 --> 04:48:37,040
Alpine Highway, that's where the art

6342
04:48:37,040 --> 04:48:38,718
center is. And they want that to remain

6343
04:48:38,718 --> 04:48:42,400
business commercial. And then, um, south

6344
04:48:42,400 --> 04:48:44,400
of Alpine Highway, so south of the green

6345
04:48:44,400 --> 04:48:46,560
line, that's where a stake center is.

6346
04:48:46,560 --> 04:48:49,120
There's like a field, um, that is just

6347
04:48:49,120 --> 04:48:52,878
being farmed that rather than be mixed

6348
04:48:52,878 --> 04:48:55,840
use that that goes to like flex housing.

6349
04:48:55,840 --> 04:48:58,160
That's how I understood it. Correct.

6350
04:48:58,160 --> 04:49:00,160
>> Brent, is that where you are too?

6351
04:49:00,160 --> 04:49:02,000
>> Yes, correct. That's correct. And they

6352
04:49:02,000 --> 04:49:04,000
said reduce it like right now it's zoned

6353
04:49:04,000 --> 04:49:07,120
residential like I think to be

6354
04:49:07,120 --> 04:49:09,360
20,000 or something but they they would

6355
04:49:09,360 --> 04:49:12,560
even take it down to like um TR 10,000

6356
04:49:12,560 --> 04:49:15,200
in that which would also match kind of

6357
04:49:15,200 --> 04:49:18,958
how we have 10,000 lot sizes like on the

6358
04:49:18,958 --> 04:49:21,600
north side of town center. So to me it's

6359
04:49:21,600 --> 04:49:24,638
a good transition into our bigger lots

6360
04:49:24,638 --> 04:49:26,320
um that are already there like along

6361
04:49:26,320 --> 04:49:29,200
Cascade and stuff. So I agreed with

6362
04:49:29,200 --> 04:49:31,120
that. I agree with Brent, but that's how

6363
04:49:31,120 --> 04:49:33,280
I can see it easier is by looking at

6364
04:49:33,280 --> 04:49:34,718
this map.

6365
04:49:34,718 --> 04:49:37,360
>> And they they didn't want any they said

6366
04:49:37,360 --> 04:49:39,360
the consultant said mixed use in the

6367
04:49:39,360 --> 04:49:41,360
field, but the planning commission says

6368
04:49:41,360 --> 04:49:43,200
let's leave that residential as well,

6369
04:49:43,200 --> 04:49:45,040
but be open to what's called flexed

6370
04:49:45,040 --> 04:49:48,638
housing. So, there's two I don't know if

6371
04:49:48,638 --> 04:49:50,878
you have your cursor that the two spots

6372
04:49:50,878 --> 04:49:52,638
that go to flex housing are right there

6373
04:49:52,638 --> 04:49:54,400
where you are. Yep. The south side of

6374
04:49:54,400 --> 04:49:57,760
Main Street and then the field go to

6375
04:49:57,760 --> 04:50:00,000
flex housing. everything else zoning

6376
04:50:00,000 --> 04:50:02,798
stays the same. Is that right, Brent?

6377
04:50:02,798 --> 04:50:04,400
>> Yeah. Yes. And they also mentioned on

6378
04:50:04,400 --> 04:50:08,638
page 28 and 29 and in other areas that

6379
04:50:08,638 --> 04:50:11,200
to remove mixed use in the area south of

6380
04:50:11,200 --> 04:50:12,638
the roundabout and instead extend

6381
04:50:12,638 --> 04:50:14,560
residential to that area.

6382
04:50:14,560 --> 04:50:15,040
>> Yeah.

6383
04:50:15,040 --> 04:50:16,560
>> And they said perhaps perhaps with a

6384
04:50:16,560 --> 04:50:18,400
higher density residential buffer with

6385
04:50:18,400 --> 04:50:20,480
lower density residential behind.

6386
04:50:20,480 --> 04:50:22,560
>> Yeah.

6387
04:50:22,560 --> 04:50:24,718
>> Um those are good. Thanks.

6388
04:50:24,718 --> 04:50:26,000
>> Are you guys following that? Is that

6389
04:50:26,000 --> 04:50:27,760
what you got out of their comments?

6390
04:50:27,760 --> 04:50:28,160
Yeah,

6391
04:50:28,160 --> 04:50:29,760
>> that's what I got out other comments.

6392
04:50:29,760 --> 04:50:31,520
But, you know, when I sat in on that

6393
04:50:31,520 --> 04:50:33,760
meeting

6394
04:50:33,760 --> 04:50:35,760
>> that Dan

6395
04:50:35,760 --> 04:50:38,000
coordinated with the folks that actually

6396
04:50:38,000 --> 04:50:40,240
live there

6397
04:50:40,240 --> 04:50:43,920
along Main Street, they did express an

6398
04:50:43,920 --> 04:50:47,200
interest in looking at um you know,

6399
04:50:47,200 --> 04:50:49,680
potentially some commercial zoning for

6400
04:50:49,680 --> 04:50:51,760
their properties. You know, they weren't

6401
04:50:51,760 --> 04:50:54,718
opposed to it.

6402
04:50:54,718 --> 04:50:57,280
And so, and there was also conversation

6403
04:50:57,280 --> 04:50:59,920
on the field that if we were going to

6404
04:50:59,920 --> 04:51:02,240
allow more commercial

6405
04:51:02,240 --> 04:51:05,200
>> that having that occur before you get to

6406
04:51:05,200 --> 04:51:07,040
the roundabout

6407
04:51:07,040 --> 04:51:09,360
might be advantageous.

6408
04:51:09,360 --> 04:51:12,240
And so I know that planning commission

6409
04:51:12,240 --> 04:51:15,200
is recommending that heavy residential

6410
04:51:15,200 --> 04:51:18,240
usage, but again the residents that live

6411
04:51:18,240 --> 04:51:21,360
along and I actually think Cooper's even

6412
04:51:21,360 --> 04:51:23,600
there that he expressed the people that

6413
04:51:23,600 --> 04:51:25,120
live there expressed

6414
04:51:25,120 --> 04:51:28,080
>> a willingness to consider a commercial

6415
04:51:28,080 --> 04:51:30,400
zoning for their properties that sit on

6416
04:51:30,400 --> 04:51:33,360
SR92.

6417
04:51:33,360 --> 04:51:35,920
>> Not SR92, Alpine Highway. Yeah.

6418
04:51:35,920 --> 04:51:37,440
>> Yeah. That that didn't include all of

6419
04:51:37,440 --> 04:51:41,360
them. It was um a representative sample

6420
04:51:41,360 --> 04:51:44,878
and it doesn't it didn't include anybody

6421
04:51:44,878 --> 04:51:47,840
north of basically the Olsson's um which

6422
04:51:47,840 --> 04:51:50,080
is the property next to the library. The

6423
04:51:50,080 --> 04:51:52,320
Olsson's changed their mind about

6424
04:51:52,320 --> 04:51:54,638
commercial and then

6425
04:51:54,638 --> 04:51:57,840
the next resident is a is a is a is a

6426
04:51:57,840 --> 04:52:00,718
commercial owner. The next resident is

6427
04:52:00,718 --> 04:52:03,760
>> an older man that was not was not

6428
04:52:03,760 --> 04:52:05,360
included in the conversation. And then

6429
04:52:05,360 --> 04:52:08,160
you just have the fields. So, it's not a

6430
04:52:08,160 --> 04:52:11,680
big representative sample. The feel that

6431
04:52:11,680 --> 04:52:14,320
the planning commission talked about is

6432
04:52:14,320 --> 04:52:17,120
that the majority of the alpine doesn't

6433
04:52:17,120 --> 04:52:19,840
want a big increase in our commercial

6434
04:52:19,840 --> 04:52:20,638
zone.

6435
04:52:20,638 --> 04:52:21,120
>> Yeah.

6436
04:52:21,120 --> 04:52:23,360
>> No, it wasn't big. It was just maybe a

6437
04:52:23,360 --> 04:52:25,680
presence along

6438
04:52:25,680 --> 04:52:27,760
>> um the highway like if it was going to

6439
04:52:27,760 --> 04:52:29,280
happen somewhere and then it would be

6440
04:52:29,280 --> 04:52:32,240
residential like you're talking about

6441
04:52:32,240 --> 04:52:36,240
higher you know a higher um maybe a

6442
04:52:36,240 --> 04:52:39,360
senior you know density or something

6443
04:52:39,360 --> 04:52:42,000
cottage zero lot line some some

6444
04:52:42,000 --> 04:52:44,638
different kind of housing product to

6445
04:52:44,638 --> 04:52:47,040
allow people to age in place if they

6446
04:52:47,040 --> 04:52:49,040
want to downsize from their large home

6447
04:52:49,040 --> 04:52:51,680
they have a place to go

6448
04:52:51,680 --> 04:52:52,240
Um,

6449
04:52:52,240 --> 04:52:54,000
>> yes, that's I think that was what it was

6450
04:52:54,000 --> 04:52:56,958
in envisioned is like a mixeduse

6451
04:52:56,958 --> 04:52:58,878
housing,

6452
04:52:58,878 --> 04:53:01,680
senior housing, smaller homes.

6453
04:53:01,680 --> 04:53:03,360
>> Yeah. So, if I understood the planning

6454
04:53:03,360 --> 04:53:04,958
commission's recommendations correctly,

6455
04:53:04,958 --> 04:53:07,200
I think the entire orange area on here

6456
04:53:07,200 --> 04:53:10,080
would just be housing, no commercial as

6457
04:53:10,080 --> 04:53:11,360
well as the field. That's what I

6458
04:53:11,360 --> 04:53:12,400
understood.

6459
04:53:12,400 --> 04:53:14,480
>> No, the the business commercial is north

6460
04:53:14,480 --> 04:53:17,440
of the green line. That's already um

6461
04:53:17,440 --> 04:53:18,560
Alpine

6462
04:53:18,560 --> 04:53:19,040
>> Northeast

6463
04:53:19,040 --> 04:53:20,718
>> Art Center

6464
04:53:20,718 --> 04:53:23,680
>> or Yeah. northwest of the line.

6465
04:53:23,680 --> 04:53:25,840
>> Okay. So up here would be commercial.

6466
04:53:25,840 --> 04:53:27,280
>> Yeah, that's already commercial.

6467
04:53:27,280 --> 04:53:29,920
>> So it's the field and then the that area

6468
04:53:29,920 --> 04:53:31,600
south of the green line, south and and

6469
04:53:31,600 --> 04:53:32,560
east of the green line.

6470
04:53:32,560 --> 04:53:33,200
>> I recall.

6471
04:53:33,200 --> 04:53:36,000
>> Does it make sense to only make one side

6472
04:53:36,000 --> 04:53:39,200
along a major highway into our city

6473
04:53:39,200 --> 04:53:42,320
before the roundabout that only part of

6474
04:53:42,320 --> 04:53:43,760
that part is commercial and the other

6475
04:53:43,760 --> 04:53:45,760
side is all residential? To me, if

6476
04:53:45,760 --> 04:53:47,760
you're going to do commercial, that's

6477
04:53:47,760 --> 04:53:49,680
the prime space.

6478
04:53:49,680 --> 04:53:51,360
>> Well, it does buffer against all those

6479
04:53:51,360 --> 04:53:52,080
residences.

6480
04:53:52,080 --> 04:53:53,840
>> I know. No, but I'm just talking

6481
04:53:53,840 --> 04:53:55,840
>> Canyon Crest is all residential,

6482
04:53:55,840 --> 04:53:56,160
>> right?

6483
04:53:56,160 --> 04:53:57,280
>> Alpine,

6484
04:53:57,280 --> 04:53:59,440
>> but there's no Okay, so if you look at

6485
04:53:59,440 --> 04:54:01,360
Canyon Crest,

6486
04:54:01,360 --> 04:54:03,760
>> if you look at you live there, but so

6487
04:54:03,760 --> 04:54:05,840
look, just think of it this way. Canyon

6488
04:54:05,840 --> 04:54:08,240
Crest has no businesses whatsoever.

6489
04:54:08,240 --> 04:54:10,798
>> Alpine Highway already has businesses.

6490
04:54:10,798 --> 04:54:13,360
If you're gonna have businesses, why

6491
04:54:13,360 --> 04:54:15,440
would you not want it along a main

6492
04:54:15,440 --> 04:54:16,878
highway?

6493
04:54:16,878 --> 04:54:18,320
>> Well, why wouldn't you want it on north

6494
04:54:18,320 --> 04:54:19,920
of Main Street? Main Street also has

6495
04:54:19,920 --> 04:54:21,280
businesses. Why don't we extend it

6496
04:54:21,280 --> 04:54:22,878
further north?

6497
04:54:22,878 --> 04:54:24,480
>> I mean, it's the same argument. It's the

6498
04:54:24,480 --> 04:54:25,520
main thoroughare.

6499
04:54:25,520 --> 04:54:26,878
>> I'm not making an argument. I'm just

6500
04:54:26,878 --> 04:54:28,560
giving feedback from the people that

6501
04:54:28,560 --> 04:54:30,878
live there. when we talked about

6502
04:54:30,878 --> 04:54:34,000
commercial and what was the future,

6503
04:54:34,000 --> 04:54:36,240
>> I read that the residents that live

6504
04:54:36,240 --> 04:54:38,798
there would said, "Yeah, we would like

6505
04:54:38,798 --> 04:54:41,280
to at least learn more about what that

6506
04:54:41,280 --> 04:54:43,840
would mean if our properties were zoned

6507
04:54:43,840 --> 04:54:44,878
commercial."

6508
04:54:44,878 --> 04:54:45,840
>> They they did not.

6509
04:54:45,840 --> 04:54:47,760
>> I explained which ones did say that and

6510
04:54:47,760 --> 04:54:49,040
which ones did not.

6511
04:54:49,040 --> 04:54:51,120
>> Well, no, that was only four. There's

6512
04:54:51,120 --> 04:54:53,600
way more than four houses.

6513
04:54:53,600 --> 04:54:55,120
>> Jessica, are you talking about the

6514
04:54:55,120 --> 04:54:58,400
houses in this like kind of sandy blue?

6515
04:54:58,400 --> 04:54:59,840
There aren't more than four houses on

6516
04:54:59,840 --> 04:55:01,440
that south side.

6517
04:55:01,440 --> 04:55:03,280
>> I think she's talking No, she's talking

6518
04:55:03,280 --> 04:55:05,200
about closer to what is the street that

6519
04:55:05,200 --> 04:55:07,280
>> I think I would need a Google closer to

6520
04:55:07,280 --> 04:55:08,320
that lane we were talking.

6521
04:55:08,320 --> 04:55:08,878
>> I mean,

6522
04:55:08,878 --> 04:55:11,200
>> no, it is closer to that lane is people

6523
04:55:11,200 --> 04:55:13,600
there, but I've talked to Mr. Walker who

6524
04:55:13,600 --> 04:55:16,718
owns the property next to the church and

6525
04:55:16,718 --> 04:55:19,440
he would be in favor of having it be

6526
04:55:19,440 --> 04:55:21,680
zone business commercial.

6527
04:55:21,680 --> 04:55:23,600
>> Um,

6528
04:55:23,600 --> 04:55:25,920
>> yeah, I see that. I see that logic just

6529
04:55:25,920 --> 04:55:27,440
because then you're not traveling all

6530
04:55:27,440 --> 04:55:28,000
the way into

6531
04:55:28,000 --> 04:55:29,360
>> Alpine.

6532
04:55:29,360 --> 04:55:30,878
>> Um but

6533
04:55:30,878 --> 04:55:32,718
>> yeah, the streets are wider. I I do

6534
04:55:32,718 --> 04:55:34,958
think it's more amenable to business

6535
04:55:34,958 --> 04:55:37,200
commercial than north.

6536
04:55:37,200 --> 04:55:38,958
>> It's way more residential up there.

6537
04:55:38,958 --> 04:55:40,480
>> You're talking in the blue section,

6538
04:55:40,480 --> 04:55:40,958
right?

6539
04:55:40,958 --> 04:55:42,638
>> I'm talking about the dark red at the

6540
04:55:42,638 --> 04:55:43,280
top.

6541
04:55:43,280 --> 04:55:44,560
>> Yeah.

6542
04:55:44,560 --> 04:55:46,160
>> He's Brent is saying we could put

6543
04:55:46,160 --> 04:55:47,760
business commercial there, which is like

6544
04:55:47,760 --> 04:55:49,520
the purple space up there.

6545
04:55:49,520 --> 04:55:49,760
>> But

6546
04:55:49,760 --> 04:55:51,600
>> no, I'm not I'm not advocating we put

6547
04:55:51,600 --> 04:55:53,040
more business commercial anywhere. I

6548
04:55:53,040 --> 04:55:55,120
think it's it's adequate the way it is

6549
04:55:55,120 --> 04:55:57,040
and that's what I think most people that

6550
04:55:57,040 --> 04:55:58,718
have talked to me feel the same way.

6551
04:55:58,718 --> 04:56:00,240
>> Yeah, I'm with brand I'm with

6552
04:56:00,240 --> 04:56:01,440
>> that they don't they don't want more

6553
04:56:01,440 --> 04:56:03,920
commercial. They want to keep Alpine even

6554
04:56:03,920 --> 04:56:05,520
>> they don't want to bring in all the

6555
04:56:05,520 --> 04:56:07,280
traffic and more commercial that

6556
04:56:07,280 --> 04:56:09,280
>> and they don't even they don't even

6557
04:56:09,280 --> 04:56:10,560
prosper here.

6558
04:56:10,560 --> 04:56:13,680
>> No, I think it's a community that's

6559
04:56:13,680 --> 04:56:16,240
specifically addresses the $90 million

6560
04:56:16,240 --> 04:56:17,360
leakage community

6561
04:56:17,360 --> 04:56:19,520
>> and so it really is to support the

6562
04:56:19,520 --> 04:56:21,280
residents that live here. It's not to

6563
04:56:21,280 --> 04:56:23,360
attract. We're not going to attract

6564
04:56:23,360 --> 04:56:25,040
people coming into Alpine to do

6565
04:56:25,040 --> 04:56:27,120
commerce. We're looking at what is it

6566
04:56:27,120 --> 04:56:29,280
that our residents are asking for.

6567
04:56:29,280 --> 04:56:31,120
They're asking for a breakfast place.

6568
04:56:31,120 --> 04:56:33,280
They're asking, you know, for a place

6569
04:56:33,280 --> 04:56:36,638
for bread. There are some requests when

6570
04:56:36,638 --> 04:56:39,040
you consider a $90 million leakage study

6571
04:56:39,040 --> 04:56:40,798
that's significant. I got an email from

6572
04:56:40,798 --> 04:56:43,440
a mayor this week and the positioning in

6573
04:56:43,440 --> 04:56:45,920
the email was, "We just got our leakage

6574
04:56:45,920 --> 04:56:48,240
study back and we are losing $15

6575
04:56:48,240 --> 04:56:49,680
million.

6576
04:56:49,680 --> 04:56:51,920
um we'd love to talk to you about

6577
04:56:51,920 --> 04:56:53,440
bringing a small business to our

6578
04:56:53,440 --> 04:56:55,920
community. And that was just for a $15

6579
04:56:55,920 --> 04:56:59,360
million gap. So there is, you know, we

6580
04:56:59,360 --> 04:57:01,840
do have a need. Our residents are asking

6581
04:57:01,840 --> 04:57:03,680
us for a place to go to dinner, for a

6582
04:57:03,680 --> 04:57:07,600
place to have I mean trucks and tunes,

6583
04:57:07,600 --> 04:57:09,600
you know, has shown that that people

6584
04:57:09,600 --> 04:57:11,200
want to gather, people want to get

6585
04:57:11,200 --> 04:57:14,878
together. Snowasis is, you know, off the

6586
04:57:14,878 --> 04:57:16,718
charts. So they're they're showing that

6587
04:57:16,718 --> 04:57:18,320
we're looking for those commerce

6588
04:57:18,320 --> 04:57:20,080
opportunities.

6589
04:57:20,080 --> 04:57:22,160
>> Yeah. And there's there's there is some

6590
04:57:22,160 --> 04:57:24,480
undeveloped property on Main Street that

6591
04:57:24,480 --> 04:57:26,240
can still be used for that. I agree that

6592
04:57:26,240 --> 04:57:28,320
those would be some good small

6593
04:57:28,320 --> 04:57:30,320
businesses for those areas. I have only

6594
04:57:30,320 --> 04:57:31,840
been in Alpine 12 years and there hasn't

6595
04:57:31,840 --> 04:57:34,320
been a restaurant here in 12 years, but

6596
04:57:34,320 --> 04:57:36,000
I've been told that there people have

6597
04:57:36,000 --> 04:57:39,440
tried before and they've all failed. So,

6598
04:57:39,440 --> 04:57:41,120
I mean, that'd be great if we could get

6599
04:57:41,120 --> 04:57:44,400
some and we have 30 35% of available

6600
04:57:44,400 --> 04:57:46,878
space on Main Street that we haven't

6601
04:57:46,878 --> 04:57:48,240
even utilized.

6602
04:57:48,240 --> 04:57:50,400
>> Sure. I agree with you, Brent. I I don't

6603
04:57:50,400 --> 04:57:52,160
know that we need the space, but if we

6604
04:57:52,160 --> 04:57:54,160
did, I feel like where that blue section

6605
04:57:54,160 --> 04:57:56,320
is would be a great place, but

6606
04:57:56,320 --> 04:57:57,920
>> I don't section.

6607
04:57:57,920 --> 04:58:00,480
>> Not the field. It's like the

6608
04:58:00,480 --> 04:58:02,160
>> kind of south.

6609
04:58:02,160 --> 04:58:03,840
>> Well, that's the orchard.

6610
04:58:03,840 --> 04:58:04,400
>> Um,

6611
04:58:04,400 --> 04:58:06,080
>> the whole blue section is the orchard

6612
04:58:06,080 --> 04:58:08,560
and homes. There's no more land to be

6613
04:58:08,560 --> 04:58:09,360
developed there.

6614
04:58:09,360 --> 04:58:11,680
>> Well, and I think um someone had

6615
04:58:11,680 --> 04:58:13,360
mentioned maybe those homeowners were

6616
04:58:13,360 --> 04:58:15,360
interested in at some point, I don't

6617
04:58:15,360 --> 04:58:16,320
know, down the road.

6618
04:58:16,320 --> 04:58:18,560
>> No, those those are the people I think

6619
04:58:18,560 --> 04:58:20,718
those people they talk to are the ones

6620
04:58:20,718 --> 04:58:23,440
that are in the orange section next to

6621
04:58:23,440 --> 04:58:26,240
between the field or the B or the

6622
04:58:26,240 --> 04:58:29,200
Banganger farm and the art center. And

6623
04:58:29,200 --> 04:58:32,400
then on the south side of that, you have

6624
04:58:32,400 --> 04:58:35,920
the library, the Olsson's, a property

6625
04:58:35,920 --> 04:58:37,920
that's owned by a commercial development

6626
04:58:37,920 --> 04:58:42,480
or commercial owner, and Mr. whatever

6627
04:58:42,480 --> 04:58:44,080
what his name is. He's really nice. I

6628
04:58:44,080 --> 04:58:46,400
talked to him at the senior lounge

6629
04:58:46,400 --> 04:58:49,360
>> lunch. And he owns a fairly big parcel.

6630
04:58:49,360 --> 04:58:51,600
>> And I think they're interested in

6631
04:58:51,600 --> 04:58:54,878
looking at some commercial usage in that

6632
04:58:54,878 --> 04:58:56,638
large parcel.

6633
04:58:56,638 --> 04:58:58,160
Well, I can imagine why they would be

6634
04:58:58,160 --> 04:58:59,520
because if they want to sell, it's worth

6635
04:58:59,520 --> 04:59:01,520
more money potentially.

6636
04:59:01,520 --> 04:59:03,840
>> But what about the residents who abut

6637
04:59:03,840 --> 04:59:06,160
that? That's the that's the question.

6638
04:59:06,160 --> 04:59:08,240
>> And what does Alpine really want? I

6639
04:59:08,240 --> 04:59:10,560
mean, if you guys are hearing residents

6640
04:59:10,560 --> 04:59:12,718
clamoring for more commercial business,

6641
04:59:12,718 --> 04:59:14,000
then let's talk about it. But that's not

6642
04:59:14,000 --> 04:59:14,480
what I'm hearing.

6643
04:59:14,480 --> 04:59:16,080
>> No, no, I'm not either.

6644
04:59:16,080 --> 04:59:18,958
>> I took pictures that night of the dots,

6645
04:59:18,958 --> 04:59:20,718
which I have here on my phone. I finally

6646
04:59:20,718 --> 04:59:24,080
found it. Uh, pretty much tons of red

6647
04:59:24,080 --> 04:59:26,718
for a roundabout. Tons of red for a

6648
04:59:26,718 --> 04:59:28,958
three-way stop back at Ridge. When it

6649
04:59:28,958 --> 04:59:31,440
comes to this field, tons of red for any

6650
04:59:31,440 --> 04:59:33,440
commercial. That's why they adapted it

6651
04:59:33,440 --> 04:59:35,280
to the stripes because nobody wanted

6652
04:59:35,280 --> 04:59:37,920
commercial there. And then as far as

6653
04:59:37,920 --> 04:59:39,680
commercial in this area we're talking

6654
04:59:39,680 --> 04:59:42,638
about, it's two dots to three dots. So

6655
04:59:42,638 --> 04:59:45,360
there is mixed feedback coming to us,

6656
04:59:45,360 --> 04:59:48,798
which is normal. So anyways, I I I don't

6657
04:59:48,798 --> 04:59:51,840
think we can collectively say

6658
04:59:51,840 --> 04:59:54,878
um what our city wants because we have

6659
04:59:54,878 --> 04:59:57,760
random like non

6660
04:59:57,760 --> 05:00:00,878
very personal interests involved. If we

6661
05:00:00,878 --> 05:00:03,280
really want to know, we may need to do a

6662
05:00:03,280 --> 05:00:06,718
survey to say like because we did get

6663
05:00:06,718 --> 05:00:09,760
feedback. there was um what Dan said is

6664
05:00:09,760 --> 05:00:12,320
when like in the sharet mode Dan um from

6665
05:00:12,320 --> 05:00:14,958
MAG is when you stop hearing new ideas

6666
05:00:14,958 --> 05:00:18,878
that's kind of the consensus. So, um,

6667
05:00:18,878 --> 05:00:21,520
without taking an official survey, but

6668
05:00:21,520 --> 05:00:24,560
tons of red, more way more red than

6669
05:00:24,560 --> 05:00:26,638
green, and that's I came into this

6670
05:00:26,638 --> 05:00:28,240
thinking we needed more commercial

6671
05:00:28,240 --> 05:00:29,760
because I'm thinking moneywise, it

6672
05:00:29,760 --> 05:00:31,680
brings more money to the city. We can

6673
05:00:31,680 --> 05:00:33,360
tax it higher. We get sales, tax,

6674
05:00:33,360 --> 05:00:35,360
revenue, all that kind of stuff. But the

6675
05:00:35,360 --> 05:00:37,840
feedback that night was all no way like

6676
05:00:37,840 --> 05:00:39,680
we don't want we don't want commercial

6677
05:00:39,680 --> 05:00:41,520
in these areas. And I will text I will

6678
05:00:41,520 --> 05:00:44,798
email these to you to Kaden. Um, but I

6679
05:00:44,798 --> 05:00:46,798
don't feel like that that we have really

6680
05:00:46,798 --> 05:00:49,600
a consensus from the community one way

6681
05:00:49,600 --> 05:00:51,600
or the other. And then sometimes we have

6682
05:00:51,600 --> 05:00:53,360
to just decide and some people are going

6683
05:00:53,360 --> 05:00:56,080
to be unhappy like we did tonight.

6684
05:00:56,080 --> 05:00:58,320
>> Yeah. No, for sure. And to address the

6685
05:00:58,320 --> 05:01:01,280
$90 million leakage study, we're always

6686
05:01:01,280 --> 05:01:02,958
going to have a huge number in our

6687
05:01:02,958 --> 05:01:04,718
leakage studies no matter what because

6688
05:01:04,718 --> 05:01:07,840
we're never ever going to have a Costco,

6689
05:01:07,840 --> 05:01:11,520
Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot, a car

6690
05:01:11,520 --> 05:01:14,000
dealership. Those are the highest

6691
05:01:14,000 --> 05:01:16,320
revenue generating far as sales tax and

6692
05:01:16,320 --> 05:01:20,240
property taxes, right? So, um, we're

6693
05:01:20,240 --> 05:01:22,878
never ever ever gonna have that. So, to

6694
05:01:22,878 --> 05:01:25,440
capture, you know, 90 million I

6695
05:01:25,440 --> 05:01:28,878
>> I'm just saying 10%, 5%

6696
05:01:28,878 --> 05:01:29,840
not even close.

6697
05:01:29,840 --> 05:01:32,480
>> But you're talking about that's how much

6698
05:01:32,480 --> 05:01:35,520
they spend as a whole. And what we would

6699
05:01:35,520 --> 05:01:37,760
be capturing is a small percent, which

6700
05:01:37,760 --> 05:01:40,160
is the sales tax revenue. if the

6701
05:01:40,160 --> 05:01:43,440
business that comes in happens to be

6702
05:01:43,440 --> 05:01:45,760
you know um

6703
05:01:45,760 --> 05:01:47,600
that is something that is taxable what

6704
05:01:47,600 --> 05:01:50,798
we found though is most of Alpine

6705
05:01:50,798 --> 05:01:53,200
it's offices or services which are not

6706
05:01:53,200 --> 05:01:54,798
taxable

6707
05:01:54,798 --> 05:01:58,080
um so yeah I agree with Chrissy where

6708
05:01:58,080 --> 05:02:00,160
when I first looked at it and looked at

6709
05:02:00,160 --> 05:02:03,600
the original leakage study that was done

6710
05:02:03,600 --> 05:02:06,080
what is it 10 years ago now and looked

6711
05:02:06,080 --> 05:02:09,600
at all um the revenue going out or all

6712
05:02:09,600 --> 05:02:11,280
of our residents spending money outside

6713
05:02:11,280 --> 05:02:13,520
of the city. And if you really look at

6714
05:02:13,520 --> 05:02:15,600
the big ticket items, that kind of stuff

6715
05:02:15,600 --> 05:02:17,360
we'll never ever see here. So that's

6716
05:02:17,360 --> 05:02:19,200
just wiped away. You're talking about

6717
05:02:19,200 --> 05:02:21,520
10%. So you're talking about not

6718
05:02:21,520 --> 05:02:22,480
>> I'm five.

6719
05:02:22,480 --> 05:02:24,240
>> Okay, fine. Let's say four and a half

6720
05:02:24,240 --> 05:02:27,600
million in um revenue, right? So four

6721
05:02:27,600 --> 05:02:28,958
and a half million that they're spending

6722
05:02:28,958 --> 05:02:32,638
on goods and then um the percent of

6723
05:02:32,638 --> 05:02:34,560
sales tax revenue from that, you know,

6724
05:02:34,560 --> 05:02:36,160
you give some to the city, it's a point

6725
05:02:36,160 --> 05:02:39,360
of origination. You know, if you look at

6726
05:02:39,360 --> 05:02:41,280
um

6727
05:02:41,280 --> 05:02:43,360
what am I thinking? Burgess Orchards, I

6728
05:02:43,360 --> 05:02:45,440
think we get, didn't we get it's about

6729
05:02:45,440 --> 05:02:47,520
five six thousand in sales tax revenue

6730
05:02:47,520 --> 05:02:50,798
from them. Correct, Shane?

6731
05:02:50,798 --> 05:02:52,080
>> That's what we were told before was

6732
05:02:52,080 --> 05:02:54,000
about five five and a half.

6733
05:02:54,000 --> 05:02:56,958
>> It's five. It's about five or $6,000.

6734
05:02:56,958 --> 05:02:59,040
That's what we make on sales tax revenue

6735
05:02:59,040 --> 05:03:02,958
for what they're selling at that spot.

6736
05:03:02,958 --> 05:03:06,638
Um so for me it was no longer um the

6737
05:03:06,638 --> 05:03:09,600
revenue generator. Um

6738
05:03:09,600 --> 05:03:11,360
although there is the upside that they

6739
05:03:11,360 --> 05:03:13,440
are taxed at 100% value of the real

6740
05:03:13,440 --> 05:03:14,798
estate property because it's not their

6741
05:03:14,798 --> 05:03:17,120
primary residence. So there is as far as

6742
05:03:17,120 --> 05:03:20,000
property tax we do get a larger chunk.

6743
05:03:20,000 --> 05:03:21,920
Um

6744
05:03:21,920 --> 05:03:25,200
but I you know even when I talk to a lot

6745
05:03:25,200 --> 05:03:26,878
of people who want these restaurants and

6746
05:03:26,878 --> 05:03:28,560
whatnot

6747
05:03:28,560 --> 05:03:30,400
um because they're always like well

6748
05:03:30,400 --> 05:03:32,160
can't we get a restaurant here? And I'm

6749
05:03:32,160 --> 05:03:34,240
like, you know, we're not preventing

6750
05:03:34,240 --> 05:03:36,958
anyone from create a restaurant here. We

6751
05:03:36,958 --> 05:03:39,040
just haven't had people come in that

6752
05:03:39,040 --> 05:03:41,280
have wanted to do it. And yes,

6753
05:03:41,280 --> 05:03:43,600
restaurants have failed, but there's

6754
05:03:43,600 --> 05:03:45,200
different reasons why they've failed.

6755
05:03:45,200 --> 05:03:47,520
And it's not necessarily because they

6756
05:03:47,520 --> 05:03:50,958
weren't generating revenue. Um, there's

6757
05:03:50,958 --> 05:03:52,240
other reasons and I don't want to go

6758
05:03:52,240 --> 05:03:53,280
into it in a public meeting.

6759
05:03:53,280 --> 05:03:54,958
>> That's not actually how it works. How it

6760
05:03:54,958 --> 05:03:57,280
works, because I've talked to Midway, is

6761
05:03:57,280 --> 05:04:00,160
they don't sit and wait. Midways decided

6762
05:04:00,160 --> 05:04:02,560
this is who we want

6763
05:04:02,560 --> 05:04:04,400
>> and this is who we want and they go out

6764
05:04:04,400 --> 05:04:05,360
and they

6765
05:04:05,360 --> 05:04:07,440
>> it's it's economic development and

6766
05:04:07,440 --> 05:04:09,760
that's what it looks like. And so we

6767
05:04:09,760 --> 05:04:11,920
don't attract anything because we don't

6768
05:04:11,920 --> 05:04:14,240
have zoning. We don't have retail space.

6769
05:04:14,240 --> 05:04:16,080
We make it too difficult for a small

6770
05:04:16,080 --> 05:04:17,680
business owner that's maybe got a little

6771
05:04:17,680 --> 05:04:20,638
bookstore or maybe a little repair shop.

6772
05:04:20,638 --> 05:04:23,440
There's too much barrier to entry and so

6773
05:04:23,440 --> 05:04:26,160
they don't come here. Now we can be more

6774
05:04:26,160 --> 05:04:27,920
business friendly. We can think what do

6775
05:04:27,920 --> 05:04:31,200
our residents want? We can zone and then

6776
05:04:31,200 --> 05:04:34,160
they will come because we've removed all

6777
05:04:34,160 --> 05:04:36,400
the layers of barriers because they have

6778
05:04:36,400 --> 05:04:38,798
to now come to the city and we don't

6779
05:04:38,798 --> 05:04:43,120
even have retail zoning. And so we say

6780
05:04:43,120 --> 05:04:44,878
we're the visionaries for our city. What

6781
05:04:44,878 --> 05:04:46,320
we want and I'm not saying because we

6782
05:04:46,320 --> 05:04:48,958
want retail right here. I'm just saying

6783
05:04:48,958 --> 05:04:51,280
the reason they don't come to the city

6784
05:04:51,280 --> 05:04:53,920
isn't because they won't thrive here. We

6785
05:04:53,920 --> 05:04:56,080
have a $90 million leakage study that

6786
05:04:56,080 --> 05:04:58,480
shows that they will. It's that we

6787
05:04:58,480 --> 05:05:02,320
haven't built the community

6788
05:05:02,320 --> 05:05:03,680
>> so that they'll come to us.

6789
05:05:03,680 --> 05:05:05,840
>> Do you think that we need more than what

6790
05:05:05,840 --> 05:05:08,718
we have on Main Street?

6791
05:05:08,718 --> 05:05:10,240
>> I'm not sure what all we have on Main

6792
05:05:10,240 --> 05:05:12,400
Street that fits retail. I know that we

6793
05:05:12,400 --> 05:05:14,080
have a nail spa that went in and they

6794
05:05:14,080 --> 05:05:16,480
have a parking problem. So again, you're

6795
05:05:16,480 --> 05:05:18,718
talking about a small business owner.

6796
05:05:18,718 --> 05:05:20,240
everything you have to go through to

6797
05:05:20,240 --> 05:05:22,400
make a profit and you can't even provide

6798
05:05:22,400 --> 05:05:25,280
them reasonable parking. So, do I think

6799
05:05:25,280 --> 05:05:28,638
we need something that's feasible? Yeah.

6800
05:05:28,638 --> 05:05:31,520
I tell me where we can run retail on our

6801
05:05:31,520 --> 05:05:32,080
main street.

6802
05:05:32,080 --> 05:05:34,798
>> Well, I I think that just based off of

6803
05:05:34,798 --> 05:05:36,000
listening to planning commission,

6804
05:05:36,000 --> 05:05:38,000
there's some property owners along Main

6805
05:05:38,000 --> 05:05:41,680
Street that are waiting to to work with

6806
05:05:41,680 --> 05:05:43,680
the city. correct me if I'm wrong,

6807
05:05:43,680 --> 05:05:47,120
April, about some of that so that they

6808
05:05:47,120 --> 05:05:49,760
could potentially, but I don't know the

6809
05:05:49,760 --> 05:05:51,040
timeline. I don't know what's all

6810
05:05:51,040 --> 05:05:52,400
entailed there, but I don't know.

6811
05:05:52,400 --> 05:05:53,920
>> I think they're saying that we can't

6812
05:05:53,920 --> 05:05:55,920
support retail alone, and so the only

6813
05:05:55,920 --> 05:05:58,000
way they could support business was to

6814
05:05:58,000 --> 05:06:00,000
get a residential unit above to

6815
05:06:00,000 --> 05:06:02,560
supplement to o the overhead of owning a

6816
05:06:02,560 --> 05:06:04,878
building in Alpine. Um, I talked to

6817
05:06:04,878 --> 05:06:06,958
somebody who's a national placement for

6818
05:06:06,958 --> 05:06:09,920
one of the fastest growing franchises in

6819
05:06:09,920 --> 05:06:12,878
the US and he's like there's you can't

6820
05:06:12,878 --> 05:06:15,600
we there's like we don't have any of the

6821
05:06:15,600 --> 05:06:18,958
right characteristics to put even um a

6822
05:06:18,958 --> 05:06:22,000
small retail shop like and he could list

6823
05:06:22,000 --> 05:06:23,920
out all the things we lack and he lives

6824
05:06:23,920 --> 05:06:26,320
here in Alpine. If we'd like to get I

6825
05:06:26,320 --> 05:06:28,560
asked him would you formally come and

6826
05:06:28,560 --> 05:06:30,080
write down your opinion. and he said he

6827
05:06:30,080 --> 05:06:32,400
would, but I think it

6828
05:06:32,400 --> 05:06:34,878
>> well, we don't want a franchise. We want

6829
05:06:34,878 --> 05:06:37,680
uh people, you know, who are retired and

6830
05:06:37,680 --> 05:06:39,600
they've wanted to have X or they're

6831
05:06:39,600 --> 05:06:41,920
looking to build a small family business

6832
05:06:41,920 --> 05:06:43,520
and have their kids work there. We're

6833
05:06:43,520 --> 05:06:45,840
not talking about clearly a franchise

6834
05:06:45,840 --> 05:06:47,520
would never come here. And we don't want

6835
05:06:47,520 --> 05:06:50,000
a franchise. That's again conflicted to

6836
05:06:50,000 --> 05:06:52,560
our identity. But we do want to build

6837
05:06:52,560 --> 05:06:54,000
business, be entrepreneurial.

6838
05:06:54,000 --> 05:06:55,920
>> What is the sort of place? It's driving

6839
05:06:55,920 --> 05:06:58,638
me crazy. Um,

6840
05:06:58,638 --> 05:07:00,240
>> no.

6841
05:07:00,240 --> 05:07:01,760
>> Swig. He's the CEO of

6842
05:07:01,760 --> 05:07:02,798
>> Swig.

6843
05:07:02,798 --> 05:07:04,718
>> Yeah, I know. We work together all the

6844
05:07:04,718 --> 05:07:04,878
time.

6845
05:07:04,878 --> 05:07:06,878
>> And he already he already told me that

6846
05:07:06,878 --> 05:07:09,040
Alpine won't support retail.

6847
05:07:09,040 --> 05:07:10,000
>> I know.

6848
05:07:10,000 --> 05:07:12,000
>> So I clearly there's a difference

6849
05:07:12,000 --> 05:07:12,240
between

6850
05:07:12,240 --> 05:07:14,080
>> but they won't support. But Midway does

6851
05:07:14,080 --> 05:07:16,400
and Midway is smaller than Alpine.

6852
05:07:16,400 --> 05:07:18,240
>> They don't. But Midway I since I drive

6853
05:07:18,240 --> 05:07:20,160
there now every day, you don't you we're

6854
05:07:20,160 --> 05:07:22,000
not competing with somebody that's 10

6855
05:07:22,000 --> 05:07:25,200
minutes away. The next closest uh swig

6856
05:07:25,200 --> 05:07:27,680
would be down one canyon or over

6857
05:07:27,680 --> 05:07:29,280
>> franchises. We're talking boutiques.

6858
05:07:29,280 --> 05:07:31,120
>> I'm just talking about something small.

6859
05:07:31,120 --> 05:07:33,120
>> Would y'all mind if I went through the

6860
05:07:33,120 --> 05:07:35,440
ones that I wrote down just really quick

6861
05:07:35,440 --> 05:07:36,000
on this?

6862
05:07:36,000 --> 05:07:37,360
>> Knock yourself out, Andrew.

6863
05:07:37,360 --> 05:07:38,000
>> What's that?

6864
05:07:38,000 --> 05:07:39,200
>> Said knock yourself out.

6865
05:07:39,200 --> 05:07:43,760
>> Okay, so page um page 24 and 25. These

6866
05:07:43,760 --> 05:07:46,160
valu So these were my recommendations.

6867
05:07:46,160 --> 05:07:47,360
Take them or leave them. See how you

6868
05:07:47,360 --> 05:07:49,840
feel. These values emphasized protecting

6869
05:07:49,840 --> 05:07:52,000
Alpine's historic and agriculture

6870
05:07:52,000 --> 05:07:54,240
character, maintaining a small town

6871
05:07:54,240 --> 05:07:56,638
feel, promoting an active and outdoor

6872
05:07:56,638 --> 05:07:59,280
oriented lifestyle, supporting family

6873
05:07:59,280 --> 05:08:02,320
traditions, and encouraging distinctive

6874
05:08:02,320 --> 05:08:04,240
thoughtful growth. I would just add

6875
05:08:04,240 --> 05:08:06,638
after supporting family traditions and

6876
05:08:06,638 --> 05:08:10,000
faith and encouraging uh distinctive

6877
05:08:10,000 --> 05:08:11,520
thoughtful growth just so we have that

6878
05:08:11,520 --> 05:08:13,360
hearkening back to the pioneer and

6879
05:08:13,360 --> 05:08:16,240
religious um influence that's so

6880
05:08:16,240 --> 05:08:19,040
prominent here. And then on the bottom

6881
05:08:19,040 --> 05:08:20,878
uh still on

6882
05:08:20,878 --> 05:08:22,400
>> I think we can say faith.

6883
05:08:22,400 --> 05:08:24,160
>> Yes. Well, you can actually say whatever

6884
05:08:24,160 --> 05:08:26,000
you want. You could say Catholic Church.

6885
05:08:26,000 --> 05:08:27,680
You could say whatever you want. It's up

6886
05:08:27,680 --> 05:08:29,680
to us. There's no barring of that. It

6887
05:08:29,680 --> 05:08:32,320
doesn't mean we are choosing one faith.

6888
05:08:32,320 --> 05:08:35,360
It means to be honest, we wouldn't be

6889
05:08:35,360 --> 05:08:37,040
here without faith. There would be no

6890
05:08:37,040 --> 05:08:39,680
Alpine. There would be no Utah. Okay.

6891
05:08:39,680 --> 05:08:42,000
So, so I'm looking at more of a as a

6892
05:08:42,000 --> 05:08:43,520
>> n to our right.

6893
05:08:43,520 --> 05:08:46,240
>> Well, yeah. But it also influences

6894
05:08:46,240 --> 05:08:49,440
why people come here. Uh whether you

6895
05:08:49,440 --> 05:08:50,718
want to be politically correct or not

6896
05:08:50,718 --> 05:08:52,400
about it, it influences many of the

6897
05:08:52,400 --> 05:08:55,360
community values that people have. And I

6898
05:08:55,360 --> 05:08:58,080
am finding when people omit that from

6899
05:08:58,080 --> 05:09:00,718
their cities and they rely on things

6900
05:09:00,718 --> 05:09:04,400
like leisure or um outdoor activities,

6901
05:09:04,400 --> 05:09:06,400
even those begin to suffer. In other

6902
05:09:06,400 --> 05:09:09,600
words, they are a floor to another floor

6903
05:09:09,600 --> 05:09:11,760
that's actually holding them up. And

6904
05:09:11,760 --> 05:09:13,520
that when they lose those other

6905
05:09:13,520 --> 05:09:15,200
community values, San Francisco's one of

6906
05:09:15,200 --> 05:09:16,638
the best one, the mission district and

6907
05:09:16,638 --> 05:09:18,878
several others. when they lose those

6908
05:09:18,878 --> 05:09:21,440
other things that started them and it

6909
05:09:21,440 --> 05:09:23,520
can be faith of any type but there is a

6910
05:09:23,520 --> 05:09:26,000
faith uh thing. So if we if we don't put

6911
05:09:26,000 --> 05:09:28,878
that in there, people will believe that

6912
05:09:28,878 --> 05:09:30,718
we are maintaining a small town film,

6913
05:09:30,718 --> 05:09:32,240
that we're family tradition. Well, that

6914
05:09:32,240 --> 05:09:34,080
family tradition goes away once you lose

6915
05:09:34,080 --> 05:09:36,560
faith. Um that walkability goes away

6916
05:09:36,560 --> 05:09:38,958
once you lose faith. The to a certain

6917
05:09:38,958 --> 05:09:41,360
degree outdoor oriented lifestyle goes

6918
05:09:41,360 --> 05:09:43,920
away once you learn faith. Um and you'll

6919
05:09:43,920 --> 05:09:45,360
see that as you visit some of these.

6920
05:09:45,360 --> 05:09:46,638
Anyways, I think we should add it in

6921
05:09:46,638 --> 05:09:49,280
there to to draw back to that.

6922
05:09:49,280 --> 05:09:52,958
>> Um on 24 and 25, it says what our

6923
05:09:52,958 --> 05:09:55,280
gateway identity should be. page 24 and

6924
05:09:55,280 --> 05:09:58,560
25 it says each entrance corridor to the

6925
05:09:58,560 --> 05:10:01,280
city will offer a unique experience

6926
05:10:01,280 --> 05:10:04,400
focusing on identity and placemaking to

6927
05:10:04,400 --> 05:10:07,200
create recognizable gateways. So I just

6928
05:10:07,200 --> 05:10:09,040
think that's spot on and don't take that

6929
05:10:09,040 --> 05:10:11,200
out and I think we should do that. We

6930
05:10:11,200 --> 05:10:15,920
should make each um gateway a uh oh, I

6931
05:10:15,920 --> 05:10:18,320
just lost. We should make each gateway a

6932
05:10:18,320 --> 05:10:20,958
unique entrance corridor and we haven't.

6933
05:10:20,958 --> 05:10:22,638
Right now, our alpine sign is flanked

6934
05:10:22,638 --> 05:10:25,280
behind it by three massive power lines

6935
05:10:25,280 --> 05:10:27,040
on Alpine Highway. It's it just hurts

6936
05:10:27,040 --> 05:10:28,958
every time I see it. So, we want to make

6937
05:10:28,958 --> 05:10:30,400
that exper that's what this is why we're

6938
05:10:30,400 --> 05:10:32,160
talking about the easement. That's the

6939
05:10:32,160 --> 05:10:34,798
corridor entrance. Um, anyways, on page

6940
05:10:34,798 --> 05:10:37,200
26, I think we would do really well on

6941
05:10:37,200 --> 05:10:40,878
page 26 by having a target piece. Right

6942
05:10:40,878 --> 05:10:44,240
now, we have six uh images by having a

6943
05:10:44,240 --> 05:10:45,680
target piece. We can get artists to do

6944
05:10:45,680 --> 05:10:48,320
it. AI can help us. Um, so I'd love to

6945
05:10:48,320 --> 05:10:51,360
help develop one of those. Page 27. It

6946
05:10:51,360 --> 05:10:51,680
says,

6947
05:10:51,680 --> 05:10:53,360
>> can you define target piece for me?

6948
05:10:53,360 --> 05:10:55,360
>> Target piece is like when when so when

6949
05:10:55,360 --> 05:10:57,200
they it's it's something I'm used to it.

6950
05:10:57,200 --> 05:10:59,120
It's clearly uh something I brought up

6951
05:10:59,120 --> 05:11:01,440
before. Target piece is when you're

6952
05:11:01,440 --> 05:11:03,280
going to make a movie. Okay. Or when

6953
05:11:03,280 --> 05:11:04,798
you're going to make a village or when

6954
05:11:04,798 --> 05:11:06,718
you're going to build a world or a city

6955
05:11:06,718 --> 05:11:07,360
where there's a

6956
05:11:07,360 --> 05:11:09,120
>> Can you give me an example of this? When

6957
05:11:09,120 --> 05:11:10,718
you're saying a target piece, give me

6958
05:11:10,718 --> 05:11:11,520
something specific.

6959
05:11:11,520 --> 05:11:12,958
>> What it would be, it would be a painting

6960
05:11:12,958 --> 05:11:14,798
of Main Street. It's an architectural

6961
05:11:14,798 --> 05:11:16,320
rendering. Like when someone comes in in

6962
05:11:16,320 --> 05:11:18,000
your house and they say, "Okay, where do

6963
05:11:18,000 --> 05:11:19,280
you want your fireplace?" And they say,

6964
05:11:19,280 --> 05:11:20,160
"Okay, we're going to go do an

6965
05:11:20,160 --> 05:11:21,280
architectural rendering of the

6966
05:11:21,280 --> 05:11:22,160
fireplace."

6967
05:11:22,160 --> 05:11:23,680
>> And they paint it for you and they draw

6968
05:11:23,680 --> 05:11:25,040
it for you. You look at it and you see

6969
05:11:25,040 --> 05:11:27,120
exactly how it will look in its

6970
05:11:27,120 --> 05:11:28,560
ambiance. And that's the best way, kind

6971
05:11:28,560 --> 05:11:29,600
of like we just had with the fire

6972
05:11:29,600 --> 05:11:31,760
department uh building. That's the best

6973
05:11:31,760 --> 05:11:33,360
time when you see it, you react. You

6974
05:11:33,360 --> 05:11:34,878
have a visceral reaction to it and then

6975
05:11:34,878 --> 05:11:37,840
you actually emote and you decide, yes,

6976
05:11:37,840 --> 05:11:39,440
this is it. You don't do it through your

6977
05:11:39,440 --> 05:11:40,320
mind. You don't do it through your

6978
05:11:40,320 --> 05:11:42,878
mouth. You do it through your eyes. And

6979
05:11:42,878 --> 05:11:44,400
>> so you're saying that you want to

6980
05:11:44,400 --> 05:11:46,718
target. So you just want a rendering of

6981
05:11:46,718 --> 05:11:47,840
main street of what

6982
05:11:47,840 --> 05:11:49,520
>> Yeah. Yeah. our our vision, everything

6983
05:11:49,520 --> 05:11:53,120
we're saying put into words. is it's more than a million words is an

6984
05:11:53,120 --> 05:11:55,760
image that shows the type of roof, the

6985
05:11:55,760 --> 05:11:57,280
type of height that Chrissy's bringing

6986
05:11:57,280 --> 05:11:59,760
up, the type of stucco, where it is and

6987
05:11:59,760 --> 05:12:01,760
where it isn't, the type of wood

6988
05:12:01,760 --> 05:12:03,200
cladding, where it is and where it

6989
05:12:03,200 --> 05:12:04,878
isn't. You have a couple of those and as

6990
05:12:04,878 --> 05:12:07,360
you visually show that that target piece

6991
05:12:07,360 --> 05:12:09,520
will be really easy for future councils,

6992
05:12:09,520 --> 05:12:11,920
future anyone to look at and say, "This

6993
05:12:11,920 --> 05:12:14,798
was a vision they had. Are we meeting

6994
05:12:14,798 --> 05:12:16,400
this?" Or, "Oh, that was so great. I

6995
05:12:16,400 --> 05:12:17,840
want to look at that again." Anyways, it

6996
05:12:17,840 --> 05:12:19,280
would be great to have a picture there

6997
05:12:19,280 --> 05:12:21,040
of what that is and we can look into

6998
05:12:21,040 --> 05:12:22,480
artists doing it or AI up there.

6999
05:12:22,480 --> 05:12:24,638
>> Would you do it like maybe from multiple

7000
05:12:24,638 --> 05:12:27,200
vantages like one from Legacy Park, one

7001
05:12:27,200 --> 05:12:28,080
from coming in?

7002
05:12:28,080 --> 05:12:29,840
>> Yeah. And the easy the easy thing to do

7003
05:12:29,840 --> 05:12:31,520
is to look at them and say that's not

7004
05:12:31,520 --> 05:12:33,280
it. You almost do 10 of them and you

7005
05:12:33,280 --> 05:12:35,200
realize that is not it

7006
05:12:35,200 --> 05:12:37,120
>> and and they're just so helpful to be

7007
05:12:37,120 --> 05:12:38,320
like you don't have to give someone a

7008
05:12:38,320 --> 05:12:39,920
30-page report. You show them one image

7009
05:12:39,920 --> 05:12:42,160
and they say that's it. That's Alpine.

7010
05:12:42,160 --> 05:12:44,000
That's our that's our future gateway. It

7011
05:12:44,000 --> 05:12:46,400
says it's a focal point designed to

7012
05:12:46,400 --> 05:12:47,760
immediately capture and hold the

7013
05:12:47,760 --> 05:12:49,840
viewer's attention. Acts as a visual

7014
05:12:49,840 --> 05:12:52,480
anchor. So, I noticed that when I was

7015
05:12:52,480 --> 05:12:54,560
looking at Cedar Hills, they have the

7016
05:12:54,560 --> 05:12:56,638
they want to be American colonial and

7017
05:12:56,638 --> 05:12:57,920
they have that thing you're talking

7018
05:12:57,920 --> 05:13:00,320
about. There's this building and they're

7019
05:13:00,320 --> 05:13:02,240
like, "This is what we want." And it's

7020
05:13:02,240 --> 05:13:04,718
right in their ordinances. So, I'm just

7021
05:13:04,718 --> 05:13:06,638
saying I I I've seen that work and as

7022
05:13:06,638 --> 05:13:08,320
soon as I saw the picture, I'm like,

7023
05:13:08,320 --> 05:13:10,160
"Oh, that's what they're going for

7024
05:13:10,160 --> 05:13:12,000
here." like with their all their

7025
05:13:12,000 --> 05:13:14,798
ordinances were sort of supported were

7026
05:13:14,798 --> 05:13:17,280
like like spokes on a wheel and this

7027
05:13:17,280 --> 05:13:19,360
vision this one building and their

7028
05:13:19,360 --> 05:13:22,320
ordinances like oh okay that's American

7029
05:13:22,320 --> 05:13:23,760
colonial now I know what they're talking

7030
05:13:23,760 --> 05:13:25,360
about so I can I can see how it's

7031
05:13:25,360 --> 05:13:26,878
helpful

7032
05:13:26,878 --> 05:13:28,718
>> so okay so you're talk are you talking

7033
05:13:28,718 --> 05:13:30,080
about this page that we're looking at

7034
05:13:30,080 --> 05:13:30,560
now

7035
05:13:30,560 --> 05:13:31,680
>> yeah right about that page because we

7036
05:13:31,680 --> 05:13:33,600
have all these recommendations 1 2 3 4 5

7037
05:13:33,600 --> 05:13:36,240
six well if we had one image that um

7038
05:13:36,240 --> 05:13:36,958
exemplify

7039
05:13:36,958 --> 05:13:37,840
>> each are you talking about

7040
05:13:37,840 --> 05:13:40,160
>> no no just one it will exemplify all

7041
05:13:40,160 --> 05:13:42,320
those uh for those recommendations.

7042
05:13:42,320 --> 05:13:44,560
>> Okay, Mr. Artist, I'd like to see it

7043
05:13:44,560 --> 05:13:45,120
next time.

7044
05:13:45,120 --> 05:13:46,878
>> Every time I I sign up for things and I

7045
05:13:46,878 --> 05:13:48,958
have full intention and like literally I

7046
05:13:48,958 --> 05:13:52,480
fly to Chicago at 400 a.m. tomorrow or

7047
05:13:52,480 --> 05:13:54,240
today. I guess it's the same day. What

7048
05:13:54,240 --> 05:13:56,000
is it? 11. Not yet. Tomorrow.

7049
05:13:56,000 --> 05:13:56,958
>> Well, you have plenty of time on the

7050
05:13:56,958 --> 05:13:57,520
plane.

7051
05:13:57,520 --> 05:13:59,520
>> I get overwhelmed. So, I need some help

7052
05:13:59,520 --> 05:14:02,320
from other people to um help do them.

7053
05:14:02,320 --> 05:14:04,320
But anyways, that will really help. Uh

7054
05:14:04,320 --> 05:14:08,080
sorry, page 27 or um page 27 it says

7055
05:14:08,080 --> 05:14:10,480
implement a unified wayfinding and

7056
05:14:10,480 --> 05:14:13,440
gateway identity identity system. So

7057
05:14:13,440 --> 05:14:15,440
good. These are all positives.

7058
05:14:15,440 --> 05:14:19,200
>> Um across all gateway areas, signage,

7059
05:14:19,200 --> 05:14:21,200
branding, and wayfinding elements should

7060
05:14:21,200 --> 05:14:23,440
be developed that reinforces Alpine's

7061
05:14:23,440 --> 05:14:25,840
identity and enhanced navigation.

7062
05:14:25,840 --> 05:14:28,160
Gateway features like monuments,

7063
05:14:28,160 --> 05:14:30,080
landscaping, and public art should be

7064
05:14:30,080 --> 05:14:32,560
prioritized at the key entry points and

7065
05:14:32,560 --> 05:14:33,920
the roundabout. And I think we're on our

7066
05:14:33,920 --> 05:14:36,160
way to doing that one in the roundabout.

7067
05:14:36,160 --> 05:14:38,958
But think of entering on Alpine Highway

7068
05:14:38,958 --> 05:14:40,400
or entering on Canyon Crrest or entering

7069
05:14:40,400 --> 05:14:43,520
on Westfield and having a monument or a

7070
05:14:43,520 --> 05:14:45,840
key signage. I think that will really

7071
05:14:45,840 --> 05:14:50,000
just be a just a huge opportunity to

7072
05:14:50,000 --> 05:14:52,080
uplift Alpine and when people enter they

7073
05:14:52,080 --> 05:14:54,160
know they're here. Um so I really

7074
05:14:54,160 --> 05:14:55,600
>> that's that site at the roundabout is

7075
05:14:55,600 --> 05:14:57,040
really nice. If we could

7076
05:14:57,040 --> 05:14:59,040
>> I would be happy using that for all of

7077
05:14:59,040 --> 05:15:01,360
our gateway entrances.

7078
05:15:01,360 --> 05:15:03,680
>> Well, okay. Yeah, I would love to see

7079
05:15:03,680 --> 05:15:05,360
some granite, but that's just me. Okay,

7080
05:15:05,360 --> 05:15:09,200
so anyways, uh page 28. Um I'd like to

7081
05:15:09,200 --> 05:15:10,878
People wanted to take this out, so I'd

7082
05:15:10,878 --> 05:15:12,798
really hope you won't take this out. It

7083
05:15:12,798 --> 05:15:15,040
says, "Residents voiced strong." This is

7084
05:15:15,040 --> 05:15:16,560
a quote from our this thing. That's why

7085
05:15:16,560 --> 05:15:18,400
I love it so much. Residents voiced

7086
05:15:18,400 --> 05:15:20,718
strong support for protecting historic

7087
05:15:20,718 --> 05:15:22,798
buildings, maintaining Main Street's

7088
05:15:22,798 --> 05:15:25,120
traditional scale, and preserving

7089
05:15:25,120 --> 05:15:27,280
mountain views, which directly

7090
05:15:27,280 --> 05:15:28,958
influenced the Main Street civic and

7091
05:15:28,958 --> 05:15:31,200
mixeduse recommendation. So they wanted

7092
05:15:31,200 --> 05:15:32,638
to take out the preserving mountain

7093
05:15:32,638 --> 05:15:35,120
views. I'd love to keep that. I can't

7094
05:15:35,120 --> 05:15:36,480
tell you how many times people talk to

7095
05:15:36,480 --> 05:15:37,680
me and then they pivot from whatever

7096
05:15:37,680 --> 05:15:39,040
their issue are and like oh and by the

7097
05:15:39,040 --> 05:15:40,718
way the reason I live moved here was

7098
05:15:40,718 --> 05:15:42,240
because of the views. They they always

7099
05:15:42,240 --> 05:15:43,840
followed up with that and they'll be

7100
05:15:43,840 --> 05:15:45,200
from like somewhere like Silicon Valley.

7101
05:15:45,200 --> 05:15:46,798
This most recent one Asian family from

7102
05:15:46,798 --> 05:15:48,400
Silicon Valley came here because of the

7103
05:15:48,400 --> 05:15:50,560
views. We we've got something more

7104
05:15:50,560 --> 05:15:52,400
valuable than almost any city. I think

7105
05:15:52,400 --> 05:15:54,320
we should preserve them. Anyways, page

7106
05:15:54,320 --> 05:15:56,958
32. There's a bunch of X's and so

7107
05:15:56,958 --> 05:16:00,000
>> yeah let's jump in. Um, so each

7108
05:16:00,000 --> 05:16:01,760
character area is defined and yeah, the

7109
05:16:01,760 --> 05:16:03,920
X's are here for the mixed use

7110
05:16:03,920 --> 05:16:05,040
commercial.

7111
05:16:05,040 --> 05:16:07,920
>> I I since I wasn't here, I actually

7112
05:16:07,920 --> 05:16:09,280
don't know why that wasn't filled. I'm

7113
05:16:09,280 --> 05:16:10,400
guessing it's because the planning

7114
05:16:10,400 --> 05:16:12,480
commission was saying eliminate this

7115
05:16:12,480 --> 05:16:14,400
area. Essentially, it's not going to be

7116
05:16:14,400 --> 05:16:15,280
mixed use.

7117
05:16:15,280 --> 05:16:17,440
>> Carla, correct me, but we have

7118
05:16:17,440 --> 05:16:20,080
commercial and we have residential, but

7119
05:16:20,080 --> 05:16:21,600
we actually don't have a mixeduse

7120
05:16:21,600 --> 05:16:24,878
ordinance. We just allow both in the

7121
05:16:24,878 --> 05:16:26,480
mix. You What?

7122
05:16:26,480 --> 05:16:27,120
>> Yeah, that's

7123
05:16:27,120 --> 05:16:28,320
>> Shane. Am I saying that right?

7124
05:16:28,320 --> 05:16:28,958
>> That's correct.

7125
05:16:28,958 --> 05:16:30,638
>> So since we don't have one, they

7126
05:16:30,638 --> 05:16:33,040
couldn't make any recommendations for

7127
05:16:33,040 --> 05:16:34,480
it. It doesn't exist.

7128
05:16:34,480 --> 05:16:35,280
>> Okay, that makes sense.

7129
05:16:35,280 --> 05:16:37,040
>> So that's what the X's are on page 32.

7130
05:16:37,040 --> 05:16:38,878
>> It doesn't exist in our code. We don't

7131
05:16:38,878 --> 05:16:40,080
allow mixed use.

7132
05:16:40,080 --> 05:16:41,120
>> I see things I I didn't know.

7133
05:16:41,120 --> 05:16:43,120
>> But maybe we maybe we could.

7134
05:16:43,120 --> 05:16:43,840
>> Okay, thank you.

7135
05:16:43,840 --> 05:16:44,798
>> Yeah.

7136
05:16:44,798 --> 05:16:46,480
>> Okay. Well, so I don't know if we want

7137
05:16:46,480 --> 05:16:48,560
to talk about each character area. That

7138
05:16:48,560 --> 05:16:51,280
was the goal to get through this part.

7139
05:16:51,280 --> 05:16:54,240
Um I just made a few notes on each one.

7140
05:16:54,240 --> 05:16:56,718
Um but

7141
05:16:56,718 --> 05:16:59,040
so I guess I I'll just looking at this

7142
05:16:59,040 --> 05:17:01,360
page for the main street and civic and

7143
05:17:01,360 --> 05:17:03,360
mixed use. Um

7144
05:17:03,360 --> 05:17:05,120
>> so this talks about having a mix of

7145
05:17:05,120 --> 05:17:08,718
housing types, low density retail

7146
05:17:08,718 --> 05:17:11,600
transition area from traditional

7147
05:17:11,600 --> 05:17:13,360
neighborhoods to the mixeduse core in

7148
05:17:13,360 --> 05:17:16,320
the town center. Uh the key feature is

7149
05:17:16,320 --> 05:17:20,160
obviously the purple mattress uh site

7150
05:17:20,160 --> 05:17:23,360
and then the town center. Um the bulk of

7151
05:17:23,360 --> 05:17:24,958
commercial was supposed to be here.

7152
05:17:24,958 --> 05:17:26,320
Commercial and social heart of the

7153
05:17:26,320 --> 05:17:29,840
alpine. Um it talks about being walkable

7154
05:17:29,840 --> 05:17:32,320
not just in sidewalks but in design. I

7155
05:17:32,320 --> 05:17:35,360
think maybe I put that in but um

7156
05:17:35,360 --> 05:17:38,160
activated streetscapes

7157
05:17:38,160 --> 05:17:41,040
and all the good design principles

7158
05:17:41,040 --> 05:17:43,280
should be here. Does anyone have any

7159
05:17:43,280 --> 05:17:46,160
comments on these two? I

7160
05:17:46,160 --> 05:17:48,560
>> Oh, just one thought just after

7161
05:17:48,560 --> 05:17:50,480
listening to planning commission on this

7162
05:17:50,480 --> 05:17:53,040
just under um Main Street Civic and mix

7163
05:17:53,040 --> 05:17:56,560
when it talks about built form. Um one

7164
05:17:56,560 --> 05:17:57,920
of the things that was mentioned by some

7165
05:17:57,920 --> 05:18:00,080
of the residents is potentially and this

7166
05:18:00,080 --> 05:18:02,638
kind of confirms this having smaller

7167
05:18:02,638 --> 05:18:05,200
setbacks so that they can allow for

7168
05:18:05,200 --> 05:18:06,878
parking in the back which sounds like it

7169
05:18:06,878 --> 05:18:08,638
would alleviate some of the problems

7170
05:18:08,638 --> 05:18:11,200
that we're having with the nail studio.

7171
05:18:11,200 --> 05:18:14,480
Um, so I I guess I'm just mentioning

7172
05:18:14,480 --> 05:18:16,878
this because also on town center under

7173
05:18:16,878 --> 05:18:18,718
public realm, it talks about that as

7174
05:18:18,718 --> 05:18:22,000
well. Um, so just something to keep in

7175
05:18:22,000 --> 05:18:24,320
mind, I guess, when we're

7176
05:18:24,320 --> 05:18:28,320
fine-tuning things later on. That's all.

7177
05:18:28,320 --> 05:18:30,480
That's a great comment. And I'm trying

7178
05:18:30,480 --> 05:18:32,560
to remember if the setbacks and the

7179
05:18:32,560 --> 05:18:37,510
design I think they were smaller.

7180
05:18:37,520 --> 05:18:41,040
Um, let's see.

7181
05:18:41,040 --> 05:18:42,958
I think we talked two weeks ago or

7182
05:18:42,958 --> 05:18:45,680
whenever we discussed this

7183
05:18:45,680 --> 05:18:48,320
>> that we would look at other ordinances

7184
05:18:48,320 --> 05:18:51,840
and kind of see what would be

7185
05:18:51,840 --> 05:18:53,840
something that allow these potential

7186
05:18:53,840 --> 05:18:55,600
developments to pencil and what the

7187
05:18:55,600 --> 05:18:57,520
setback should be in these two different

7188
05:18:57,520 --> 05:19:00,718
areas of Main Street. So getting staff

7189
05:19:00,718 --> 05:19:03,840
recommendations for that maybe.

7190
05:19:03,840 --> 05:19:06,400
>> Yeah, definitely. Yeah, right now Town

7191
05:19:06,400 --> 05:19:08,718
Center is six to eight foot. So that's

7192
05:19:08,718 --> 05:19:09,280
pretty small.

7193
05:19:09,280 --> 05:19:10,320
>> That was pretty small.

7194
05:19:10,320 --> 05:19:11,120
>> Yeah.

7195
05:19:11,120 --> 05:19:13,760
>> No, that's the side. The front is 15

7196
05:19:13,760 --> 05:19:15,200
feet and 20 feet.

7197
05:19:15,200 --> 05:19:18,638
>> Thank you. Sorry it's late.

7198
05:19:18,638 --> 05:19:19,600
>> Okay.

7199
05:19:19,600 --> 05:19:21,600
>> I hate to go all the way backwards, but

7200
05:19:21,600 --> 05:19:24,160
I had this thought the other day about

7201
05:19:24,160 --> 05:19:27,360
our materials is that we have bridges

7202
05:19:27,360 --> 05:19:29,120
that I don't know what they cost, but

7203
05:19:29,120 --> 05:19:32,798
they are stone and timber. So, let's

7204
05:19:32,798 --> 05:19:35,920
sort of lean into that a little. Sorry,

7205
05:19:35,920 --> 05:19:38,080
it's totally out of context.

7206
05:19:38,080 --> 05:19:39,680
But I was thinking about this way

7207
05:19:39,680 --> 05:19:41,760
finding thing that he's talking about

7208
05:19:41,760 --> 05:19:43,440
like we could lean into the stone and

7209
05:19:43,440 --> 05:19:45,600
the timber like because that's we've

7210
05:19:45,600 --> 05:19:47,360
already invested in that and I think

7211
05:19:47,360 --> 05:19:48,798
everybody loved the bridges when they

7212
05:19:48,798 --> 05:19:50,240
went in. Everybody loved them.

7213
05:19:50,240 --> 05:19:50,958
>> I love it and I love it.

7214
05:19:50,958 --> 05:19:53,280
>> And there's metal.

7215
05:19:53,280 --> 05:19:55,040
>> Well, yeah. Okay.

7216
05:19:55,040 --> 05:19:57,280
>> Anyways, put that as a footnote.

7217
05:19:57,280 --> 05:19:58,878
>> Are you talking about materials? Primary

7218
05:19:58,878 --> 05:19:59,280
materials.

7219
05:19:59,280 --> 05:20:01,200
>> I'm talking about our bridges, you know,

7220
05:20:01,200 --> 05:20:04,240
>> and like they had stone and timber and

7221
05:20:04,240 --> 05:20:06,560
metal and everybody loved those bridges.

7222
05:20:06,560 --> 05:20:08,240
So maybe we could lean into that as a

7223
05:20:08,240 --> 05:20:10,718
unifying theme to our way finding

7224
05:20:10,718 --> 05:20:12,160
>> that he's talking about

7225
05:20:12,160 --> 05:20:14,878
>> to go on that um in the character areas.

7226
05:20:14,878 --> 05:20:17,600
I think we have the term here in this if

7227
05:20:17,600 --> 05:20:21,440
you look on page uh uh 33 where it says

7228
05:20:21,440 --> 05:20:24,560
character areas the field. It uses the

7229
05:20:24,560 --> 05:20:27,040
word rustic signage on the bottom.

7230
05:20:27,040 --> 05:20:29,840
Wayfinding and identity rustic signage

7231
05:20:29,840 --> 05:20:32,000
native landscaping rural fencing to

7232
05:20:32,000 --> 05:20:34,160
create a distinct entry into Alpine.

7233
05:20:34,160 --> 05:20:35,680
Now, right now, we do have rustic

7234
05:20:35,680 --> 05:20:38,240
signage. I don't not like it, but I

7235
05:20:38,240 --> 05:20:39,440
think we should define it. What does

7236
05:20:39,440 --> 05:20:41,440
rustic signage look like? Because rustic

7237
05:20:41,440 --> 05:20:43,200
signage can look like

7238
05:20:43,200 --> 05:20:47,360
>> a um like a cowboy town, like an old

7239
05:20:47,360 --> 05:20:52,958
cowboy town, or it can look like a European town. There's different

7240
05:20:52,958 --> 05:20:54,480
kinds. So, I think there should be some

7241
05:20:54,480 --> 05:20:56,958
defining as to what rusted signage is.

7242
05:20:56,958 --> 05:20:59,280
>> Yeah. If you go to the top uh paragraph

7243
05:20:59,280 --> 05:21:01,840
on that way, this area uh the bottom

7244
05:21:01,840 --> 05:21:04,798
line this on page 33, this area uh

7245
05:21:04,798 --> 05:21:06,320
talking about the field is in going back

7246
05:21:06,320 --> 05:21:07,920
to what uh you guys are bringing up is

7247
05:21:07,920 --> 05:21:10,080
envisioned talking about the field as a

7248
05:21:10,080 --> 05:21:12,400
rural inspired entrance to the city that

7249
05:21:12,400 --> 05:21:14,400
protects open views and farming

7250
05:21:14,400 --> 05:21:18,560
heritage. Um that's not mixed use or

7251
05:21:18,560 --> 05:21:21,120
commercial. That's protecting open views

7252
05:21:21,120 --> 05:21:24,560
and um agriculture. So we probably want

7253
05:21:24,560 --> 05:21:27,280
to define that a little bit more. uh for

7254
05:21:27,280 --> 05:21:29,200
the field because in this document it's

7255
05:21:29,200 --> 05:21:32,638
saying uh protecting open views and

7256
05:21:32,638 --> 05:21:35,360
farming heritage. Um it's very

7257
05:21:35,360 --> 05:21:38,160
different. That's that's uh Wheeler Farm

7258
05:21:38,160 --> 05:21:40,400
style. That's that's that's uh and that

7259
05:21:40,400 --> 05:21:42,638
will really define when people enter if

7260
05:21:42,638 --> 05:21:45,360
they're entering shopping or if they're

7261
05:21:45,360 --> 05:21:49,280
entering entering uh an open farm type

7262
05:21:49,280 --> 05:21:52,000
of type of feel like a Wheeler Farm or a

7263
05:21:52,000 --> 05:21:53,840
place where you have events or things

7264
05:21:53,840 --> 05:21:55,600
like that. I I have some on the other

7265
05:21:55,600 --> 05:21:56,958
characters, but I'll let other people go

7266
05:21:56,958 --> 05:21:59,920
before I talk about them.

7267
05:21:59,920 --> 05:22:00,400
>> Jesse, do

7268
05:22:00,400 --> 05:22:02,000
>> you have anything else you want to add?

7269
05:22:02,000 --> 05:22:05,910
>> Brent.

7270
05:22:05,920 --> 05:22:07,520
» Uh, nothing else.

7271
05:22:07,520 --> 05:22:08,000
>> Okay,

7272
05:22:08,000 --> 05:22:08,480
>> Chrissy.

7273
05:22:08,480 --> 05:22:09,520
>> Oh, sorry.

7274
05:22:09,520 --> 05:22:10,320
>> I'm good.

7275
05:22:10,320 --> 05:22:12,000
>> Okay. So, on the character egg gateway,

7276
05:22:12,000 --> 05:22:14,400
if you go to page 34.

7277
05:22:14,400 --> 05:22:18,480
So just before we jump past this, um I

7278
05:22:18,480 --> 05:22:20,798
think this part on the field does say as

7279
05:22:20,798 --> 05:22:23,440
of right now low to medium density with

7280
05:22:23,440 --> 05:22:26,160
retail is proposed here.

7281
05:22:26,160 --> 05:22:27,840
>> So I guess

7282
05:22:27,840 --> 05:22:31,040
>> this goes back to what Chrissy and I

7283
05:22:31,040 --> 05:22:34,798
said um following the recommendations of

7284
05:22:34,798 --> 05:22:37,280
the planning commission to delete that.

7285
05:22:37,280 --> 05:22:39,200
>> Okay. So are we all in on deleting that

7286
05:22:39,200 --> 05:22:40,878
from this language here?

7287
05:22:40,878 --> 05:22:42,798
>> I I think the residents there would like

7288
05:22:42,798 --> 05:22:47,520
that. And then you're hearing from me at at most I think we could say a

7289
05:22:47,520 --> 05:22:49,920
balanced approach, but I do think yes,

7290
05:22:49,920 --> 05:22:52,480
they do not want that to be retail. When

7291
05:22:52,480 --> 05:22:54,000
I talked to the residents down there,

7292
05:22:54,000 --> 05:22:56,320
they want it to be what I believe these

7293
05:22:56,320 --> 05:22:58,958
people who made this report took it from

7294
05:22:58,958 --> 05:23:00,638
a city that protects open views and

7295
05:23:00,638 --> 05:23:03,680
farming heritage there in the uh um the

7296
05:23:03,680 --> 05:23:06,160
field area in that area. Now, that could

7297
05:23:06,160 --> 05:23:07,440
change, but that's what I'm hearing from

7298
05:23:07,440 --> 05:23:08,638
him and that's what it says in this, but

7299
05:23:08,638 --> 05:23:10,798
that does not go along with what you

7300
05:23:10,798 --> 05:23:13,360
just brought up where it is a mixeduse.

7301
05:23:13,360 --> 05:23:14,958
I don't know how we have farming

7302
05:23:14,958 --> 05:23:16,798
heritage, open views, and mixeduse

7303
05:23:16,798 --> 05:23:18,240
commercial. I guess that could be a

7304
05:23:18,240 --> 05:23:19,520
beautiful

7305
05:23:19,520 --> 05:23:19,920
>> um

7306
05:23:19,920 --> 05:23:20,958
>> it could be a nursery.

7307
05:23:20,958 --> 05:23:23,680
>> It could be an opera like a really cool

7308
05:23:23,680 --> 05:23:24,958
combination, but it would have to be

7309
05:23:24,958 --> 05:23:25,920
very carefully done

7310
05:23:25,920 --> 05:23:27,760
>> because that's agricultural. Like, it

7311
05:23:27,760 --> 05:23:29,360
could be a variety of things, but I

7312
05:23:29,360 --> 05:23:31,520
think it wholeheartedly I think it'd be

7313
05:23:31,520 --> 05:23:33,760
awesome. I just think it was rejected.

7314
05:23:33,760 --> 05:23:35,600
But I could be wrong. I would love to

7315
05:23:35,600 --> 05:23:36,878
have a survey, but that would cost

7316
05:23:36,878 --> 05:23:38,320
money. So, I don't know.

7317
05:23:38,320 --> 05:23:39,840
>> Uh, it definitely wouldn't be open

7318
05:23:39,840 --> 05:23:41,440
season on the commercial down there from

7319
05:23:41,440 --> 05:23:42,080
what I

7320
05:23:42,080 --> 05:23:44,798
>> I guess Kaden, my my thought is I

7321
05:23:44,798 --> 05:23:46,080
disagree with what the planning

7322
05:23:46,080 --> 05:23:48,080
commission said in this section.

7323
05:23:48,080 --> 05:23:50,718
>> I don't I don't have any other suggested

7324
05:23:50,718 --> 05:23:52,000
edits.

7325
05:23:52,000 --> 05:23:53,200
>> Got it. Thank you.

7326
05:23:53,200 --> 05:23:55,360
>> Okay. On page 34, I think you'll all

7327
05:23:55,360 --> 05:23:56,638
really love this. I'm not sure if you

7328
05:23:56,638 --> 05:23:58,320
saw it. the bottom on the left where it

7329
05:23:58,320 --> 05:24:00,480
says key me elements for the southwest

7330
05:24:00,480 --> 05:24:01,920
gateway. We're talking about the same

7331
05:24:01,920 --> 05:24:03,360
area kind of by the field but a little

7332
05:24:03,360 --> 05:24:06,000
bit south on the very last it says a

7333
05:24:06,000 --> 05:24:07,520
gateway monument at the future

7334
05:24:07,520 --> 05:24:09,520
intersection of Rance Tribe and Alpine

7335
05:24:09,520 --> 05:24:12,080
Highway. A future monument right there I

7336
05:24:12,080 --> 05:24:13,280
think would be Chrissy. I don't know if

7337
05:24:13,280 --> 05:24:14,320
you're listening but that's

7338
05:24:14,320 --> 05:24:15,200
>> I'm totally listening.

7339
05:24:15,200 --> 05:24:17,040
>> That's your world. Um so they're talking

7340
05:24:17,040 --> 05:24:20,320
about a monument there uh down by Alpine

7341
05:24:20,320 --> 05:24:22,718
Highway Ranch Drive entrance. That's

7342
05:24:22,718 --> 05:24:24,000
where that's where people come around

7343
05:24:24,000 --> 05:24:26,480
the circle. They see the mountain. I

7344
05:24:26,480 --> 05:24:27,920
mean, I'm thinking something like Eagle

7345
05:24:27,920 --> 05:24:29,200
Gate. That's like you could put

7346
05:24:29,200 --> 05:24:31,040
something like that there or or you

7347
05:24:31,040 --> 05:24:33,120
could put some sort of monument because

7348
05:24:33,120 --> 05:24:35,040
that's when you really that's your exit

7349
05:24:35,040 --> 05:24:37,280
and that's your entrance and it would

7350
05:24:37,280 --> 05:24:39,040
just be a prime location. So, I like to

7351
05:24:39,040 --> 05:24:40,160
keep that there.

7352
05:24:40,160 --> 05:24:43,920
>> I think um what we what ideally what I

7353
05:24:43,920 --> 05:24:46,320
would like to see is the same monument

7354
05:24:46,320 --> 05:24:47,600
everywhere.

7355
05:24:47,600 --> 05:24:49,840
>> You said unique, but I feel like we need

7356
05:24:49,840 --> 05:24:52,958
to a way finding is like you've arrived.

7357
05:24:52,958 --> 05:24:54,400
I think

7358
05:24:54,400 --> 05:24:56,400
>> ORM went and put up some signs. I think

7359
05:24:56,400 --> 05:24:58,718
Highland has some signs and whether

7360
05:24:58,718 --> 05:24:59,760
you're entering from the north,

7361
05:24:59,760 --> 05:25:01,440
souththeast, or west, you see the same

7362
05:25:01,440 --> 05:25:02,718
signage.

7363
05:25:02,718 --> 05:25:04,320
>> And I asked the consultants, can you do

7364
05:25:04,320 --> 05:25:05,600
that for us? And they said, of course,

7365
05:25:05,600 --> 05:25:08,718
for a price. So anyways, it's something

7366
05:25:08,718 --> 05:25:10,560
that we should put some thought into.

7367
05:25:10,560 --> 05:25:13,280
And I believe it could be at these these

7368
05:25:13,280 --> 05:25:14,958
if you go back to that page with the

7369
05:25:14,958 --> 05:25:17,120
orange on it. See the little um arch

7370
05:25:17,120 --> 05:25:19,200
thing, the black and white, and then it

7371
05:25:19,200 --> 05:25:22,240
has a like a bridge. Looks like that is

7372
05:25:22,240 --> 05:25:24,160
where they want the same

7373
05:25:24,160 --> 05:25:24,638
>> oh

7374
05:25:24,638 --> 05:25:27,120
>> element to say you've arrived. You're an

7375
05:25:27,120 --> 05:25:28,878
alpine now. And uh

7376
05:25:28,878 --> 05:25:30,798
>> they said they said un they said

7377
05:25:30,798 --> 05:25:32,560
consistent uniform monuments and

7378
05:25:32,560 --> 05:25:34,560
landscaping which I think is

7379
05:25:34,560 --> 05:25:37,040
>> I think is the preference for me.

7380
05:25:37,040 --> 05:25:39,760
>> Yep. Consistent uniform. Love it.

7381
05:25:39,760 --> 05:25:41,920
>> Okay. Well, at least monuments on the

7382
05:25:41,920 --> 05:25:43,360
entrance I think is a good thing. You

7383
05:25:43,360 --> 05:25:44,718
guys want them consistent. I don't mind

7384
05:25:44,718 --> 05:25:46,560
if they're different if they meet the

7385
05:25:46,560 --> 05:25:48,958
same goal of welcoming and reminding

7386
05:25:48,958 --> 05:25:50,400
people where they're at and what it's

7387
05:25:50,400 --> 05:25:52,320
all about. If you look on the Southwest

7388
05:25:52,320 --> 05:25:56,400
Gateway character area, um uh the the

7389
05:25:56,400 --> 05:25:58,320
middle column on the bottom line, it

7390
05:25:58,320 --> 05:26:00,400
says a pedestrian and bike friendly

7391
05:26:00,400 --> 05:26:02,320
infrastructure down there kind of by the

7392
05:26:02,320 --> 05:26:05,120
field down there by Burgess Orchards. I

7393
05:26:05,120 --> 05:26:06,638
would just add to that, this is one of

7394
05:26:06,638 --> 05:26:08,718
the few additions I have. Whenever you

7395
05:26:08,718 --> 05:26:11,760
see it say bike friendly and cyclist to

7396
05:26:11,760 --> 05:26:14,878
also add walker or retired folks or

7397
05:26:14,878 --> 05:26:17,680
something to that because

7398
05:26:17,680 --> 05:26:19,440
>> pedestrian and bike is this get you

7399
05:26:19,440 --> 05:26:20,000
there.

7400
05:26:20,000 --> 05:26:21,600
>> Okay, that's that's good. That's good

7401
05:26:21,600 --> 05:26:22,798
enough. I just don't want

7402
05:26:22,798 --> 05:26:25,280
>> and and and just as an update, we

7403
05:26:25,280 --> 05:26:28,400
remember we learned from you DOT that

7404
05:26:28,400 --> 05:26:31,360
a similar pedestrian or multi-use path

7405
05:26:31,360 --> 05:26:34,878
is on the books for that road as well.

7406
05:26:34,878 --> 05:26:35,200
>> Yeah.

7407
05:26:35,200 --> 05:26:37,440
>> For a future MAG funded grant.

7408
05:26:37,440 --> 05:26:39,680
>> Yeah. Okay. On the bottom of that

7409
05:26:39,680 --> 05:26:42,240
paragraph, it says the development goal

7410
05:26:42,240 --> 05:26:44,638
down in that south entrance alpine

7411
05:26:44,638 --> 05:26:46,718
highway area. what it says the

7412
05:26:46,718 --> 05:26:48,718
development goal is an emphasis on low

7413
05:26:48,718 --> 05:26:50,718
density single family development and

7414
05:26:50,718 --> 05:26:53,440
limited infill development. I think

7415
05:26:53,440 --> 05:26:54,798
that's what I've caught from them and so

7416
05:26:54,798 --> 05:26:56,878
I think that's a positive the wayfinding

7417
05:26:56,878 --> 05:26:58,958
and identity as a gateway element at the

7418
05:26:58,958 --> 05:27:00,240
south end of the quarter. We already

7419
05:27:00,240 --> 05:27:02,958
went over that on the right on the right

7420
05:27:02,958 --> 05:27:04,718
column

7421
05:27:04,718 --> 05:27:07,200
uh the area the top of the right column

7422
05:27:07,200 --> 05:27:09,760
the area will maintain its residential

7423
05:27:09,760 --> 05:27:12,560
identity focused on improve walkability.

7424
05:27:12,560 --> 05:27:14,638
It continues on walkability, trail

7425
05:27:14,638 --> 05:27:17,120
linkages. So, we really have an open

7426
05:27:17,120 --> 05:27:18,560
canvas down there to make this

7427
05:27:18,560 --> 05:27:21,920
walkability. Um, if you if you go down

7428
05:27:21,920 --> 05:27:25,440
on the third bullet of the key elements,

7429
05:27:25,440 --> 05:27:27,680
it says the overall character of the

7430
05:27:27,680 --> 05:27:31,680
southwest gateway is low density. So,

7431
05:27:31,680 --> 05:27:33,440
and then on the bottom it brings it up

7432
05:27:33,440 --> 05:27:35,120
again, a gateway element at the west end

7433
05:27:35,120 --> 05:27:37,200
of the quarter. Why why do the people

7434
05:27:37,200 --> 05:27:41,360
keep putting put a monument or a gateway

7435
05:27:41,360 --> 05:27:43,760
like element at each entrance? Why do

7436
05:27:43,760 --> 05:27:45,120
they why are they doing that? I mean, I

7437
05:27:45,120 --> 05:27:47,040
want it, but why why are they doing it?

7438
05:27:47,040 --> 05:27:48,638
Because I I want to support it.

7439
05:27:48,638 --> 05:27:49,840
>> A gateway element.

7440
05:27:49,840 --> 05:27:51,200
>> Yeah. They're they're saying a monument

7441
05:27:51,200 --> 05:27:53,600
or a gateway element at each entrance.

7442
05:27:53,600 --> 05:27:55,360
>> Yeah. So, that would be like a welcome

7443
05:27:55,360 --> 05:27:57,360
sign into Alpine essentially. Basically,

7444
05:27:57,360 --> 05:27:58,958
what we have at the roundabout that

7445
05:27:58,958 --> 05:28:00,718
could be considered a gateway element.

7446
05:28:00,718 --> 05:28:02,160
>> Okay. It doesn't have to be anything

7447
05:28:02,160 --> 05:28:03,920
grandiose or anything like that, but

7448
05:28:03,920 --> 05:28:05,680
something that signifies you're entering

7449
05:28:05,680 --> 05:28:07,840
alpine is is kind of what they're

7450
05:28:07,840 --> 05:28:09,280
>> they have one right in the roundabout in

7451
05:28:09,280 --> 05:28:11,360
their little mapping. There's four,

7452
05:28:11,360 --> 05:28:12,718
>> right? No, I just I just don't know how

7453
05:28:12,718 --> 05:28:13,680
they arrive. I mean, these are the

7454
05:28:13,680 --> 05:28:15,680
experts making this report.

7455
05:28:15,680 --> 05:28:17,120
>> They're just saying like we want to know

7456
05:28:17,120 --> 05:28:19,360
we've we're here. We've arrived. Okay.

7457
05:28:19,360 --> 05:28:20,958
>> So, Andrew, this is a little bit

7458
05:28:20,958 --> 05:28:23,680
different where it says low density, but

7459
05:28:23,680 --> 05:28:26,160
in the on the other page we read, it

7460
05:28:26,160 --> 05:28:28,878
said a mixed housing model.

7461
05:28:28,878 --> 05:28:29,680
>> So, those two,

7462
05:28:29,680 --> 05:28:31,280
>> right? We need to we need to figure that

7463
05:28:31,280 --> 05:28:32,958
out.

7464
05:28:32,958 --> 05:28:35,200
>> Yeah, I don't I don't recall that low

7465
05:28:35,200 --> 05:28:39,760
density. We we wanted to continue to see

7466
05:28:39,760 --> 05:28:41,600
um what we're already seeing. We would

7467
05:28:41,600 --> 05:28:44,240
like to see a different housing product.

7468
05:28:44,240 --> 05:28:45,920
>> Oh, I'm sorry. Is that Southeast

7469
05:28:45,920 --> 05:28:48,240
Gateway? I apologize.

7470
05:28:48,240 --> 05:28:49,920
>> That's the Southeast Gateway. If you

7471
05:28:49,920 --> 05:28:52,718
look at the middle column, the bottom

7472
05:28:52,718 --> 05:28:54,958
second to bottom point, it says

7473
05:28:54,958 --> 05:28:57,520
development goal. I apologize. That is

7474
05:28:57,520 --> 05:29:00,240
southeast gateway. Is that talking about

7475
05:29:00,240 --> 05:29:01,440
uh Canyon Crest?

7476
05:29:01,440 --> 05:29:02,240
>> It is.

7477
05:29:02,240 --> 05:29:03,760
>> I apologize. I thought we were still on

7478
05:29:03,760 --> 05:29:06,400
the No, that is I apologize. That is

7479
05:29:06,400 --> 05:29:07,680
saying the development goal on the

7480
05:29:07,680 --> 05:29:09,760
southeast gateway is emphasized on low

7481
05:29:09,760 --> 05:29:11,280
density single family development and

7482
05:29:11,280 --> 05:29:13,520
limited infill but also adding asking

7483
05:29:13,520 --> 05:29:15,680
for a the point after that a gateway

7484
05:29:15,680 --> 05:29:17,120
element at the south end of the

7485
05:29:17,120 --> 05:29:17,760
corridor.

7486
05:29:17,760 --> 05:29:19,280
>> Again, that's on the map. Yep.

7487
05:29:19,280 --> 05:29:21,040
>> Right. So, so, um, and then I guess it's

7488
05:29:21,040 --> 05:29:23,200
the northwest gateway, which would be,

7489
05:29:23,200 --> 05:29:26,000
um, uh, asking for the same kind of

7490
05:29:26,000 --> 05:29:28,160
thing as the east, low density and a

7491
05:29:28,160 --> 05:29:29,520
gateway element at the west end.

7492
05:29:29,520 --> 05:29:31,200
>> So, how does this align? It says new

7493
05:29:31,200 --> 05:29:33,920
residential development. This is under

7494
05:29:33,920 --> 05:29:36,000
southwest gateway.

7495
05:29:36,000 --> 05:29:38,638
Um, could include single family or

7496
05:29:38,638 --> 05:29:41,680
divided entry twin homes. So, we are

7497
05:29:41,680 --> 05:29:43,920
now, you know, bringing in a different

7498
05:29:43,920 --> 05:29:46,558
model. But then under key elements it

7499
05:29:46,558 --> 05:29:48,240
says emphasis on single family

7500
05:29:48,240 --> 05:29:50,638
development and large lot development.

7501
05:29:50,638 --> 05:29:53,120
So that to be, you know, and I know

7502
05:29:53,120 --> 05:29:54,480
we've heard from the public like, could

7503
05:29:54,480 --> 05:29:57,360
we get some zero lot line? Could we get

7504
05:29:57,360 --> 05:30:03,040
a different housing product for some of our residents so that

7505
05:30:03,040 --> 05:30:05,680
>> Yeah, I see those asongent. Yeah, I see

7506
05:30:05,680 --> 05:30:07,520
those as not inongruent, but congruent

7507
05:30:07,520 --> 05:30:11,040
because if you put a duplex on a larger

7508
05:30:11,040 --> 05:30:14,160
lot, it feels more residential than

7509
05:30:14,160 --> 05:30:16,480
cramming them stacked together like a

7510
05:30:16,480 --> 05:30:17,680
row of blocks.

7511
05:30:17,680 --> 05:30:19,120
>> So that's I thought that that's what

7512
05:30:19,120 --> 05:30:20,480
they were trying to say. If we if we

7513
05:30:20,480 --> 05:30:23,120
did, I could show you some pictures cuz

7514
05:30:23,120 --> 05:30:24,958
they're in Hebrew.

7515
05:30:24,958 --> 05:30:26,638
>> Like they literally have three houses

7516
05:30:26,638 --> 05:30:29,440
and it looks like like one of our nice,

7517
05:30:29,440 --> 05:30:31,680
>> you know, like like if you go back to

7518
05:30:31,680 --> 05:30:33,040
where's that picture that you

7519
05:30:33,040 --> 05:30:34,638
>> Oh, I understand that. But then how does

7520
05:30:34,638 --> 05:30:35,200
that

7521
05:30:35,200 --> 05:30:36,878
>> But if it's on a larger lot, then it

7522
05:30:36,878 --> 05:30:38,000
gives people

7523
05:30:38,000 --> 05:30:39,520
>> the feeling of being in a residential

7524
05:30:39,520 --> 05:30:43,040
area and not in an urban area

7525
05:30:43,040 --> 05:30:46,160
>> like this lot. This page on page 35. If

7526
05:30:46,160 --> 05:30:48,080
you put one more peak like and then

7527
05:30:48,080 --> 05:30:49,840
three doors on this house and took off

7528
05:30:49,840 --> 05:30:51,600
the garage like that's literally what

7529
05:30:51,600 --> 05:30:54,638
they build. They build three a triplex

7530
05:30:54,638 --> 05:30:56,558
and it has like three doors, three

7531
05:30:56,558 --> 05:30:58,878
dormer windows and it looks like a large

7532
05:30:58,878 --> 05:30:59,760
house.

7533
05:30:59,760 --> 05:31:00,400
>> Mhm.

7534
05:31:00,400 --> 05:31:02,718
>> But it's on a larger lot and so it

7535
05:31:02,718 --> 05:31:04,558
doesn't feel like you're in an urban

7536
05:31:04,558 --> 05:31:07,760
area where it's really tight

7537
05:31:07,760 --> 05:31:09,440
to me. I thought those were compatible.

7538
05:31:09,440 --> 05:31:12,160
>> I just don't remember public feedback

7539
05:31:12,160 --> 05:31:14,080
being we want to see duplexes or

7540
05:31:14,080 --> 05:31:14,958
triplexes.

7541
05:31:14,958 --> 05:31:18,000
>> No. more that we would like from a

7542
05:31:18,000 --> 05:31:21,440
housing product. Smaller lots, smaller

7543
05:31:21,440 --> 05:31:24,240
size homes for aging demographic,

7544
05:31:24,240 --> 05:31:27,520
younger demographic, not specifically

7545
05:31:27,520 --> 05:31:30,958
um again twins or tripod.

7546
05:31:30,958 --> 05:31:32,558
>> Well, especially in the southwest

7547
05:31:32,558 --> 05:31:35,360
gateway where most of those lots are

7548
05:31:35,360 --> 05:31:40,240
acre lots. Um so I don't see a divided

7549
05:31:40,240 --> 05:31:42,558
entry twin home being there. I would

7550
05:31:42,558 --> 05:31:45,280
probably say strike that out. Um, but

7551
05:31:45,280 --> 05:31:47,520
what we are facing is that you can have

7552
05:31:47,520 --> 05:31:50,558
detached accessory dwellings. Now,

7553
05:31:50,558 --> 05:31:52,160
>> I know that people were against it, but

7554
05:31:52,160 --> 05:31:54,878
I think because of the cost of our land,

7555
05:31:54,878 --> 05:31:57,280
like it's not really feasible to do flex

7556
05:31:57,280 --> 05:31:59,520
housing unless we allow some type of

7557
05:31:59,520 --> 05:32:01,840
shared wall. like, okay, think of the

7558
05:32:01,840 --> 05:32:04,240
there's duplexes right across from um

7559
05:32:04,240 --> 05:32:06,958
Highland City Hall and by their library,

7560
05:32:06,958 --> 05:32:08,878
but they have like separate entrances

7561
05:32:08,878 --> 05:32:10,958
and it just looks like a larger home and

7562
05:32:10,958 --> 05:32:12,718
there are garages on like totally not

7563
05:32:12,718 --> 05:32:14,320
even visible from the same side of the

7564
05:32:14,320 --> 05:32:16,400
street. I that's what I was envisioning

7565
05:32:16,400 --> 05:32:19,280
is like larger lots so they're not like

7566
05:32:19,280 --> 05:32:22,000
stacked together like an urban space but

7567
05:32:22,000 --> 05:32:25,120
they're if we don't do something like we

7568
05:32:25,120 --> 05:32:27,040
can't you're going to end up I would

7569
05:32:27,040 --> 05:32:29,680
rather have like multif family housing

7570
05:32:29,680 --> 05:32:33,440
on a larger lot than smaller lots all

7571
05:32:33,440 --> 05:32:35,280
stacked in a row like kind of what is

7572
05:32:35,280 --> 05:32:36,798
south of Lone Peak because I think

7573
05:32:36,798 --> 05:32:38,718
that's ugly. I understand like what your

7574
05:32:38,718 --> 05:32:40,080
preference is, but again, there's ways

7575
05:32:40,080 --> 05:32:43,040
to build bungalows on zero lot line

7576
05:32:43,040 --> 05:32:45,520
properties. And what I did learn, you

7577
05:32:45,520 --> 05:32:48,160
know, during the League of Cities is

7578
05:32:48,160 --> 05:32:51,200
those cities that did try to do these

7579
05:32:51,200 --> 05:32:53,760
town homes or three homes together that

7580
05:32:53,760 --> 05:32:56,878
they there wasn't a market for it. So, I

7581
05:32:56,878 --> 05:32:58,400
think we have to be really careful when

7582
05:32:58,400 --> 05:33:02,000
we're looking at duplexes or triplexes

7583
05:33:02,000 --> 05:33:04,160
because we could actually create a

7584
05:33:04,160 --> 05:33:06,638
product on a zero lot line, cute little

7585
05:33:06,638 --> 05:33:09,120
bungalow like we have on Grove Drive and

7586
05:33:09,120 --> 05:33:12,080
you can get the housing number you need

7587
05:33:12,080 --> 05:33:14,878
and you can have and it's feasible

7588
05:33:14,878 --> 05:33:16,638
without sharing. There's something about

7589
05:33:16,638 --> 05:33:19,120
sharing a commonwall. I don't know if

7590
05:33:19,120 --> 05:33:21,200
our market's ready for that. That's all.

7591
05:33:21,200 --> 05:33:23,520
>> Well, I I think didn't you go to the

7592
05:33:23,520 --> 05:33:25,520
Utah League of City of Towns? Wasn't a

7593
05:33:25,520 --> 05:33:28,000
like a more rural area like Enoch.

7594
05:33:28,000 --> 05:33:30,718
>> No, it was our exact demographic. It was

7595
05:33:30,718 --> 05:33:33,280
our It wasn't Enoch. It was um Yeah,

7596
05:33:33,280 --> 05:33:35,280
pretty much the same population base as

7597
05:33:35,280 --> 05:33:35,760
Alpine.

7598
05:33:35,760 --> 05:33:37,680
>> No, no, but what I'm saying is like

7599
05:33:37,680 --> 05:33:39,440
their land is probably not as expensive.

7600
05:33:39,440 --> 05:33:41,040
So, people can actually still afford

7601
05:33:41,040 --> 05:33:43,600
single family homes.

7602
05:33:43,600 --> 05:33:46,320
I think I think where we've arrived just

7603
05:33:46,320 --> 05:33:49,040
from hearing it all is that we we need

7604
05:33:49,040 --> 05:33:52,000
to define better what Alpine Highway

7605
05:33:52,000 --> 05:33:55,840
Southwest Gateway is going to be and

7606
05:33:55,840 --> 05:33:59,040
it's really open what we want to allow,

7607
05:33:59,040 --> 05:34:01,120
what we don't, and how we want it to

7608
05:34:01,120 --> 05:34:03,280
look. The other ones don't seem to have

7609
05:34:03,280 --> 05:34:05,280
any problems because no one's going to

7610
05:34:05,280 --> 05:34:07,600
disagree with that. I think the level to

7611
05:34:07,600 --> 05:34:10,638
which we allow density and commercial in

7612
05:34:10,638 --> 05:34:12,160
the Southwest Gateway is what we're

7613
05:34:12,160 --> 05:34:13,440
trying to figure out. Am I wrong?

7614
05:34:13,440 --> 05:34:14,000
>> Yeah. Yeah.

7615
05:34:14,000 --> 05:34:16,798
>> That may be a whole separate discussion.

7616
05:34:16,798 --> 05:34:18,558
>> You might you might you might arrive or

7617
05:34:18,558 --> 05:34:19,280
if you find a city I'll

7618
05:34:19,280 --> 05:34:20,320
>> take some pictures.

7619
05:34:20,320 --> 05:34:22,240
>> If any of you find a city who has done

7620
05:34:22,240 --> 05:34:25,040
it well, preserving agriculture, not

7621
05:34:25,040 --> 05:34:27,200
overstepping residential, and creating

7622
05:34:27,200 --> 05:34:29,120
something that brings that delicate

7623
05:34:29,120 --> 05:34:30,798
balance of a

7624
05:34:30,798 --> 05:34:33,600
>> breakfast place or something and brings

7625
05:34:33,600 --> 05:34:35,280
in those trails and that monument. If

7626
05:34:35,280 --> 05:34:36,400
there's some city that's done it well

7627
05:34:36,400 --> 05:34:38,320
like Heber or something, maybe bring it

7628
05:34:38,320 --> 05:34:39,120
to us because

7629
05:34:39,120 --> 05:34:40,160
>> I'll bring you some pictures.

7630
05:34:40,160 --> 05:34:41,760
>> Oh, okay. I would love to see a good

7631
05:34:41,760 --> 05:34:44,240
example. I'm trying to think of one. The

7632
05:34:44,240 --> 05:34:45,760
only one I can think of is Woodside,

7633
05:34:45,760 --> 05:34:48,718
California, where um it's in it's in the

7634
05:34:48,718 --> 05:34:52,080
Bay Area and they and also Burbank. They

7635
05:34:52,080 --> 05:34:54,240
designated a certain amount of land for

7636
05:34:54,240 --> 05:34:57,440
horses and they put up horse statues

7637
05:34:57,440 --> 05:34:59,440
when you enter. It's it's one of the

7638
05:34:59,440 --> 05:35:01,520
highest zip codes in the in the nation.

7639
05:35:01,520 --> 05:35:02,958
>> I've got a question. Do we have

7640
05:35:02,958 --> 05:35:05,200
occupancy in Montadella already? Do you

7641
05:35:05,200 --> 05:35:05,840
know?

7642
05:35:05,840 --> 05:35:06,638
>> Yes.

7643
05:35:06,638 --> 05:35:08,160
>> Okay. So, they're

7644
05:35:08,160 --> 05:35:08,798
>> Yeah.

7645
05:35:08,798 --> 05:35:11,120
>> So, that's shared walls.

7646
05:35:11,120 --> 05:35:13,120
>> Those are expensive.

7647
05:35:13,120 --> 05:35:14,000
>> Yeah. They've

7648
05:35:14,000 --> 05:35:16,080
>> no matter what we do, things are going

7649
05:35:16,080 --> 05:35:17,920
to be expensive here because of the

7650
05:35:17,920 --> 05:35:19,440
price of the dirt.

7651
05:35:19,440 --> 05:35:19,840
>> Yeah.

7652
05:35:19,840 --> 05:35:22,798
>> So, we do have occupancy already then.

7653
05:35:22,798 --> 05:35:24,558
>> Yeah. They're I don't I'm not sure how

7654
05:35:24,558 --> 05:35:27,440
many units are occupied, but

7655
05:35:27,440 --> 05:35:29,520
I know they ran into a few issues as

7656
05:35:29,520 --> 05:35:31,280
well. The only reason I brought that up,

7657
05:35:31,280 --> 05:35:32,000
mayor, is

7658
05:35:32,000 --> 05:35:34,558
>> most people want something

7659
05:35:34,558 --> 05:35:38,558
they I I don't I'm not really for zero

7660
05:35:38,558 --> 05:35:40,480
lot lines, per se, because it seems like

7661
05:35:40,480 --> 05:35:43,680
what everybody wants is maybe a smaller

7662
05:35:43,680 --> 05:35:46,160
bungalow with a tiny yard. They want

7663
05:35:46,160 --> 05:35:47,760
their own space

7664
05:35:47,760 --> 05:35:50,160
>> and even young gives you space. So, the

7665
05:35:50,160 --> 05:35:52,400
way a zero lot line works is you just

7666
05:35:52,400 --> 05:35:54,718
put the lot only on one side and then

7667
05:35:54,718 --> 05:35:56,638
they do have a setback on the other

7668
05:35:56,638 --> 05:35:59,040
side. It just allows you to get a little

7669
05:35:59,040 --> 05:36:02,480
more um in the same space. So you get

7670
05:36:02,480 --> 05:36:04,558
still a yard. You could have a little

7671
05:36:04,558 --> 05:36:07,040
dog, but that's top zero. I'm not

7672
05:36:07,040 --> 05:36:07,840
talking zero.

7673
05:36:07,840 --> 05:36:08,718
>> But I don't want zero

7674
05:36:08,718 --> 05:36:10,000
>> all the way around.

7675
05:36:10,000 --> 05:36:12,080
>> I know, but I don't want zero anywhere.

7676
05:36:12,080 --> 05:36:14,160
You might as well just have I mean, how

7677
05:36:14,160 --> 05:36:16,638
is that different than sharing a wall

7678
05:36:16,638 --> 05:36:18,638
>> because you're no one's you're you're

7679
05:36:18,638 --> 05:36:20,480
spaced. There's space in between because

7680
05:36:20,480 --> 05:36:22,878
then the next house I I can also show

7681
05:36:22,878 --> 05:36:24,798
you pictures that sets on the property,

7682
05:36:24,798 --> 05:36:28,160
but then the next house is 5 to 8 10 ft

7683
05:36:28,160 --> 05:36:30,240
off depending on whatever you decide.

7684
05:36:30,240 --> 05:36:32,480
>> So it's only on one side is zero lot.

7685
05:36:32,480 --> 05:36:34,878
>> It's just one side and so it just allows

7686
05:36:34,878 --> 05:36:37,120
you to maximize lot space.

7687
05:36:37,120 --> 05:36:38,638
>> Mayor and Jessica, the reason I said

7688
05:36:38,638 --> 05:36:40,798
expensive, I should clarify is that

7689
05:36:40,798 --> 05:36:42,400
generally what you're talking about the

7690
05:36:42,400 --> 05:36:44,400
one wall or the smaller lot size is

7691
05:36:44,400 --> 05:36:47,120
generally done to not solve anything

7692
05:36:47,120 --> 05:36:49,360
other than affordability.

7693
05:36:49,360 --> 05:36:51,520
Uh it's just not working though that

7694
05:36:51,520 --> 05:36:53,440
we're we're finding that even when you

7695
05:36:53,440 --> 05:36:55,280
shrink it, even when you wall share it,

7696
05:36:55,280 --> 05:36:56,958
there's still just as much as any other

7697
05:36:56,958 --> 05:36:59,920
house. So you're not really allowing a

7698
05:36:59,920 --> 05:37:02,400
lot of new families, young families, if

7699
05:37:02,400 --> 05:37:03,760
that's what you're trying to solve, it

7700
05:37:03,760 --> 05:37:05,520
hasn't been shown to do it. And you're

7701
05:37:05,520 --> 05:37:06,638
seeing an example here

7702
05:37:06,638 --> 05:37:08,558
>> for existing residents that are looking

7703
05:37:08,558 --> 05:37:09,840
for a place to

7704
05:37:09,840 --> 05:37:12,320
>> downsize. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah.

7705
05:37:12,320 --> 05:37:12,718
Sure.

7706
05:37:12,718 --> 05:37:14,958
>> Could we on the southwest gateway just

7707
05:37:14,958 --> 05:37:17,600
leave it as single family flex housing

7708
05:37:17,600 --> 05:37:20,878
and then We could define it a little bit

7709
05:37:20,878 --> 05:37:22,558
more later on

7710
05:37:22,558 --> 05:37:23,280
>> like that.

7711
05:37:23,280 --> 05:37:24,000
>> I don't know. Just

7712
05:37:24,000 --> 05:37:25,440
>> what's flex housing mean?

7713
05:37:25,440 --> 05:37:26,558
>> Yeah. So, that's a term that the

7714
05:37:26,558 --> 05:37:28,000
planning commission used quite a bit.

7715
05:37:28,000 --> 05:37:29,680
So, I looked it up. It says adaptable

7716
05:37:29,680 --> 05:37:31,440
living models designed to evolve with

7717
05:37:31,440 --> 05:37:32,480
your needs.

7718
05:37:32,480 --> 05:37:34,958
>> Oh, that's too open.

7719
05:37:34,958 --> 05:37:37,040
>> You're going to bring

7720
05:37:37,040 --> 05:37:40,080
>> I feel like that's the purpose is to be

7721
05:37:40,080 --> 05:37:42,080
a community that's adapting and evolving

7722
05:37:42,080 --> 05:37:42,878
with our res.

7723
05:37:42,878 --> 05:37:44,080
>> Well, then I would just have us define

7724
05:37:44,080 --> 05:37:45,760
it as what we want that to be. If it is

7725
05:37:45,760 --> 05:37:49,280
twin homes, 25% twin homes. If it's not,

7726
05:37:49,280 --> 05:37:50,798
then what you're talking about, but

7727
05:37:50,798 --> 05:37:52,638
let's define it because if we depend it

7728
05:37:52,638 --> 05:37:54,878
to our needs, people's needs changed

7729
05:37:54,878 --> 05:37:56,080
really fast. And

7730
05:37:56,080 --> 05:37:57,760
>> considering that this is a visioning

7731
05:37:57,760 --> 05:38:00,798
document, maybe we can let the future

7732
05:38:00,798 --> 05:38:03,440
>> discussions define it. But I'm I'm very

7733
05:38:03,440 --> 05:38:05,600
open to flex housing. Whether Jessica

7734
05:38:05,600 --> 05:38:08,000
and I's vision ever meshes, like we'll

7735
05:38:08,000 --> 05:38:08,320
see.

7736
05:38:08,320 --> 05:38:09,600
>> So, you want to define it later,

7737
05:38:09,600 --> 05:38:11,360
>> but let's just leave it as flex housing

7738
05:38:11,360 --> 05:38:12,798
and leave it open because it's a

7739
05:38:12,798 --> 05:38:14,718
visioning document. meaning we can't

7740
05:38:14,718 --> 05:38:16,798
only consider single family homes from

7741
05:38:16,798 --> 05:38:18,558
here to the next hundred years. We've

7742
05:38:18,558 --> 05:38:20,878
got to be opened as something else and

7743
05:38:20,878 --> 05:38:22,958
we haven't figured out what that is yet.

7744
05:38:22,958 --> 05:38:25,840
>> Okay. Anything else?

7745
05:38:25,840 --> 05:38:27,920
>> The other things we really like Kaden

7746
05:38:27,920 --> 05:38:28,320
that

7747
05:38:28,320 --> 05:38:30,080
>> Okay. Aside from what you like, what

7748
05:38:30,080 --> 05:38:32,080
would you like changed? Let's expedite

7749
05:38:32,080 --> 05:38:32,798
this.

7750
05:38:32,798 --> 05:38:33,280
>> Uh

7751
05:38:33,280 --> 05:38:34,718
>> we know what's there. If there's

7752
05:38:34,718 --> 05:38:36,160
something that you want changed, let's

7753
05:38:36,160 --> 05:38:38,160
hear that. The only change is just what

7754
05:38:38,160 --> 05:38:39,760
they said at the bot on the southwest

7755
05:38:39,760 --> 05:38:41,840
gateway is that I don't know what the

7756
05:38:41,840 --> 05:38:44,320
change is but it is that we define what

7757
05:38:44,320 --> 05:38:45,840
that last line new residential

7758
05:38:45,840 --> 05:38:47,680
development could include single family

7759
05:38:47,680 --> 05:38:49,520
or divided entry twin home

7760
05:38:49,520 --> 05:38:51,680
>> single family flex how is that what you

7761
05:38:51,680 --> 05:38:53,200
said flex housing

7762
05:38:53,200 --> 05:38:55,600
>> gives us that that ability

7763
05:38:55,600 --> 05:38:57,600
>> okay and we define it later

7764
05:38:57,600 --> 05:38:59,360
>> and looking at the examples that Chrissy

7765
05:38:59,360 --> 05:39:00,480
has like

7766
05:39:00,480 --> 05:39:03,120
>> I I'll send you some anything else

7767
05:39:03,120 --> 05:39:04,958
>> no no thanks

7768
05:39:04,958 --> 05:39:06,080
>> no I've seen them yet

7769
05:39:06,080 --> 05:39:08,718
>> I want to get on to make those mod.

7770
05:39:08,718 --> 05:39:11,040
>> Okay.

7771
05:39:11,040 --> 05:39:12,798
>> So, we have the land acquisition policy

7772
05:39:12,798 --> 05:39:14,638
and the implementation matrix. Do we

7773
05:39:14,638 --> 05:39:16,480
want to talk about those two?

7774
05:39:16,480 --> 05:39:18,080
>> I think we did that the first time. That

7775
05:39:18,080 --> 05:39:18,638
was our first.

7776
05:39:18,638 --> 05:39:21,360
>> Yeah. Let's um I think we can wrap up,

7777
05:39:21,360 --> 05:39:22,400
right?

7778
05:39:22,400 --> 05:39:23,920
>> Well, we did land acquisition. That was

7779
05:39:23,920 --> 05:39:25,040
our first meeting when we were talking

7780
05:39:25,040 --> 05:39:26,558
about how we acquire land.

7781
05:39:26,558 --> 05:39:27,600
>> No, I don't think we did.

7782
05:39:27,600 --> 05:39:29,920
>> Now, we haven't done land acquisition or

7783
05:39:29,920 --> 05:39:31,200
>> Well, that was our first meeting

7784
05:39:31,200 --> 05:39:33,040
>> implementation matrix. No, we haven't

7785
05:39:33,040 --> 05:39:34,400
done either of those two, but it's love

7786
05:39:34,400 --> 05:39:35,120
and

7787
05:39:35,120 --> 05:39:36,638
>> or the traffic management plan.

7788
05:39:36,638 --> 05:39:37,760
>> Let's keep their meeting.

7789
05:39:37,760 --> 05:39:39,920
>> Mayor, can I make a motion? Can I make a

7790
05:39:39,920 --> 05:39:42,320
motion that we move land acquisition and

7791
05:39:42,320 --> 05:39:43,680
what was the other section?

7792
05:39:43,680 --> 05:39:45,680
>> Um implementation matrix

7793
05:39:45,680 --> 05:39:47,760
>> implementation to

7794
05:39:47,760 --> 05:39:51,360
>> and traffic management plan to the next

7795
05:39:51,360 --> 05:39:52,798
city council meeting.

7796
05:39:52,798 --> 05:39:53,280
>> Yes,

7797
05:39:53,280 --> 05:39:54,558
>> I second. I'll second that.

7798
05:39:54,558 --> 05:39:56,160
>> It's been moved by Councilwoman Smeu and

7799
05:39:56,160 --> 05:39:58,798
second by Councilman Rumler. Any

7800
05:39:58,798 --> 05:40:01,360
questions on the motion?

7801
05:40:01,360 --> 05:40:02,878
If not, let's proceed with a roll call

7802
05:40:02,878 --> 05:40:03,200
vote.

7803
05:40:03,200 --> 05:40:04,638
>> Jessica Simeone, yes.

7804
05:40:04,638 --> 05:40:06,000
>> Sarah Blackwell, yes.

7805
05:40:06,000 --> 05:40:06,958
>> Chrissy, yes.

7806
05:40:06,958 --> 05:40:09,760
>> Andrew Young, yes. Red R, yes.

7807
05:40:09,760 --> 05:40:11,360
>> Okay, with that,

7808
05:40:11,360 --> 05:40:13,760
>> if if that agenda ends up being packed,

7809
05:40:13,760 --> 05:40:14,878
which it could.

7810
05:40:14,878 --> 05:40:15,200
>> Yeah.

7811
05:40:15,200 --> 05:40:17,360
>> Do you want to move to the next one? Is

7812
05:40:17,360 --> 05:40:18,240
anybody

7813
05:40:18,240 --> 05:40:20,798
>> Or I wonder what we do is can we do a

7814
05:40:20,798 --> 05:40:23,520
work session before and like say, hey,

7815
05:40:23,520 --> 05:40:27,920
we do at 4:00, 4 to 5, 1 hour, that's

7816
05:40:27,920 --> 05:40:31,040
it. And while I really appreciate your

7817
05:40:31,040 --> 05:40:32,320
input,

7818
05:40:32,320 --> 05:40:33,520
>> she can

7819
05:40:33,520 --> 05:40:35,680
>> I would really like the comments to be

7820
05:40:35,680 --> 05:40:37,680
on what you would like change. I love

7821
05:40:37,680 --> 05:40:40,160
that you love so many things about it,

7822
05:40:40,160 --> 05:40:42,400
>> but to kind of expedite things so that

7823
05:40:42,400 --> 05:40:45,520
we can, you know, be more effective. Um,

7824
05:40:45,520 --> 05:40:48,320
if you guys could limit your comments to

7825
05:40:48,320 --> 05:40:49,760
what you would like changed on this

7826
05:40:49,760 --> 05:40:51,280
document, I think that would be much

7827
05:40:51,280 --> 05:40:53,520
more productive and more efficient.

7828
05:40:53,520 --> 05:40:55,360
>> Can we agree to do that?

7829
05:40:55,360 --> 05:40:57,120
>> Okay.

7830
05:40:57,120 --> 05:40:59,040
I'll second that, mayor.

7831
05:40:59,040 --> 05:41:02,558
>> Thank you. Okay. Um let's um go to staff

7832
05:41:02,558 --> 05:41:04,480
reports. Kaden,

7833
05:41:04,480 --> 05:41:07,520
>> none for me.

7834
05:41:07,520 --> 05:41:09,440
>> Just

7835
05:41:09,440 --> 05:41:11,680
make the council aware that uh we'll be

7836
05:41:11,680 --> 05:41:14,000
doing Chips Hill projects next Tuesday

7837
05:41:14,000 --> 05:41:17,200
and Wednesday, I believe. Um one of the

7838
05:41:17,200 --> 05:41:20,000
roads is for Canyon Road.

7839
05:41:20,000 --> 05:41:23,440
We have a traffic control plan in place.

7840
05:41:23,440 --> 05:41:26,480
Uh we'll have message boards up for

7841
05:41:26,480 --> 05:41:30,320
several days before notifying people. Um

7842
05:41:30,320 --> 05:41:33,120
we'll work with the HOA in Three Falls

7843
05:41:33,120 --> 05:41:35,520
so they know and and the other residents

7844
05:41:35,520 --> 05:41:37,840
in the canyon just there will be a

7845
05:41:37,840 --> 05:41:39,200
little bit of an inconvenience.

7846
05:41:39,200 --> 05:41:42,000
>> And so are they is it one lane or are we

7847
05:41:42,000 --> 05:41:43,120
going to open up the

7848
05:41:43,120 --> 05:41:44,718
>> It'll be one lane.

7849
05:41:44,718 --> 05:41:47,920
when when the when the

7850
05:41:47,920 --> 05:41:50,400
seal code is put on. We might have to

7851
05:41:50,400 --> 05:41:52,558
open the fire road, but we talked about

7852
05:41:52,558 --> 05:41:56,160
it for this first part, but decided we

7853
05:41:56,160 --> 05:41:58,320
could do one lane.

7854
05:41:58,320 --> 05:42:01,440
>> Okay. And then um are we advertising on

7855
05:42:01,440 --> 05:42:03,120
social media so people are aware?

7856
05:42:03,120 --> 05:42:04,000
>> It will be. Yes.

7857
05:42:04,000 --> 05:42:04,480
>> Okay.

7858
05:42:04,480 --> 05:42:05,760
>> Could I ask one question about that,

7859
05:42:05,760 --> 05:42:07,520
Shane? Yeah. How do you determine or

7860
05:42:07,520 --> 05:42:09,760
prioritize what roads in different parts

7861
05:42:09,760 --> 05:42:11,600
of the city? Do you have like a schedule

7862
05:42:11,600 --> 05:42:13,840
or is it more needs based?

7863
05:42:13,840 --> 05:42:15,760
>> It's not really a schedule. It goes out

7864
05:42:15,760 --> 05:42:17,600
years in advance. Um,

7865
05:42:17,600 --> 05:42:19,520
>> I had a long call with Landon about it.

7866
05:42:19,520 --> 05:42:21,840
He goes around and he surveys them.

7867
05:42:21,840 --> 05:42:23,040
>> There's there's a lot of different

7868
05:42:23,040 --> 05:42:25,520
factors. Like a lot of if you look at

7869
05:42:25,520 --> 05:42:28,160
studies and stuff, what you're trying to

7870
05:42:28,160 --> 05:42:31,200
do is preserve pavement. So people are

7871
05:42:31,200 --> 05:42:32,718
like, "Well, why are you doing that to

7872
05:42:32,718 --> 05:42:34,558
that road when it looks good?" Well,

7873
05:42:34,558 --> 05:42:36,320
it's preserving pavement because it

7874
05:42:36,320 --> 05:42:38,558
oxidizes just like the paint on your car

7875
05:42:38,558 --> 05:42:41,120
or anything else. the oil leaves it and

7876
05:42:41,120 --> 05:42:43,440
then the road starts to deteriorate and

7877
05:42:43,440 --> 05:42:46,798
then it ends up costing more to replace

7878
05:42:46,798 --> 05:42:50,480
than to preserve. So, we do a little bit

7879
05:42:50,480 --> 05:42:52,718
of everything.

7880
05:42:52,718 --> 05:42:54,878
Um, so it it just depends.

7881
05:42:54,878 --> 05:42:55,520
>> Okay.

7882
05:42:55,520 --> 05:42:57,440
>> There's a lot of factors that go into

7883
05:42:57,440 --> 05:42:57,840
it.

7884
05:42:57,840 --> 05:42:59,120
>> Thank you. That's helpful. Just because

7885
05:42:59,120 --> 05:43:00,558
I've had some residents ask,

7886
05:43:00,558 --> 05:43:03,520
>> yeah, Sarah, one of the big ones is one

7887
05:43:03,520 --> 05:43:05,040
of the roads we're doing is the

7888
05:43:05,040 --> 05:43:07,840
secondary access in Three Falls that no

7889
05:43:07,840 --> 05:43:11,040
one drives on. It's very expensive. So,

7890
05:43:11,040 --> 05:43:12,320
I was concerned about I didn't want to

7891
05:43:12,320 --> 05:43:13,680
bring it up to make the meeting go long,

7892
05:43:13,680 --> 05:43:18,558
but um I was told by Landon that um when

7893
05:43:18,558 --> 05:43:21,360
cars don't drive on roads, they have

7894
05:43:21,360 --> 05:43:25,200
problems like the plants grow through

7895
05:43:25,200 --> 05:43:27,040
them, crack them, they make them. So,

7896
05:43:27,040 --> 05:43:29,120
that's one of the reasons I still would

7897
05:43:29,120 --> 05:43:31,920
love to. And if anybody ever drove

7898
05:43:31,920 --> 05:43:35,360
through Iligania Estates prior to two

7899
05:43:35,360 --> 05:43:38,798
three falls, part of that was paved.

7900
05:43:38,798 --> 05:43:42,160
>> Um, never really open much to the

7901
05:43:42,160 --> 05:43:45,200
public. Never he traveled. The asphalt

7902
05:43:45,200 --> 05:43:47,840
was terrible.

7903
05:43:47,840 --> 05:43:49,280
>> When you don't drive on a road, I didn't

7904
05:43:49,280 --> 05:43:50,320
know this. It gets bad.

7905
05:43:50,320 --> 05:43:52,000
>> Yeah. It It kind of doesn't make sense.

7906
05:43:52,000 --> 05:43:53,120
It's like

7907
05:43:53,120 --> 05:43:54,958
>> having a house that's vacant and nobody

7908
05:43:54,958 --> 05:43:55,760
lives in it.

7909
05:43:55,760 --> 05:43:56,878
>> Oh, yeah. Makes sense.

7910
05:43:56,878 --> 05:43:58,718
>> Kind of deteriorates from the inside

7911
05:43:58,718 --> 05:44:01,360
out. it seems like. So,

7912
05:44:01,360 --> 05:44:02,638
>> it's so expensive though.

7913
05:44:02,638 --> 05:44:04,000
>> Anything else?

7914
05:44:04,000 --> 05:44:05,840
>> Um, I think that's it.

7915
05:44:05,840 --> 05:44:08,080
>> Okay. Okay. Two quick things. The um

7916
05:44:08,080 --> 05:44:11,120
Chamber of Commerce has had five new

7917
05:44:11,120 --> 05:44:12,878
memberships within the last week. So,

7918
05:44:12,878 --> 05:44:14,400
they're they're doing great. They have

7919
05:44:14,400 --> 05:44:17,040
momentum and had a great lunchon. And

7920
05:44:17,040 --> 05:44:20,160
then the History and Arts Committee is

7921
05:44:20,160 --> 05:44:22,400
moving forward with I sent you two

7922
05:44:22,400 --> 05:44:25,360
emails. show the first the last one

7923
05:44:25,360 --> 05:44:27,440
first because I thought it would be best

7924
05:44:27,440 --> 05:44:30,480
to just give it context.

7925
05:44:30,480 --> 05:44:35,430
Um

7926
05:44:35,440 --> 05:44:39,680
anyway, they met to we sent out an email

7927
05:44:39,680 --> 05:44:42,480
for Chrissy's recommendation. Thanks for

7928
05:44:42,480 --> 05:44:44,878
kind of helping with like how to get to

7929
05:44:44,878 --> 05:44:47,920
next steps. I think they came in and met

7930
05:44:47,920 --> 05:44:51,120
with Shane. like it just was oh this is

7931
05:44:51,120 --> 05:44:53,680
we were a little stalled I appreciate

7932
05:44:53,680 --> 05:44:56,638
>> oh no the other picture I I emailed you

7933
05:44:56,638 --> 05:44:59,280
so so where we were if you all remember

7934
05:44:59,280 --> 05:45:01,680
I think they had like three or four of

7935
05:45:01,680 --> 05:45:04,878
the dormers um kind of dialed in and so

7936
05:45:04,878 --> 05:45:06,638
we reached out to the history committee

7937
05:45:06,638 --> 05:45:09,360
to give us feedback and input and now

7938
05:45:09,360 --> 05:45:11,440
you can show the other one. So some of

7939
05:45:11,440 --> 05:45:14,320
the members went and met at Holdman

7940
05:45:14,320 --> 05:45:16,958
Studios. It was, as you can imagine,

7941
05:45:16,958 --> 05:45:20,080
just a really um impactful experience.

7942
05:45:20,080 --> 05:45:22,160
And they're working through the other

7943
05:45:22,160 --> 05:45:26,080
four dormers and including, you know, um

7944
05:45:26,080 --> 05:45:28,240
references to quilting and making sure

7945
05:45:28,240 --> 05:45:31,040
we have the old rock church represented

7946
05:45:31,040 --> 05:45:32,878
and and really some great things. So,

7947
05:45:32,878 --> 05:45:37,600
I'm excited for y'all to get to see what they get pulled together. That's

7948
05:45:37,600 --> 05:45:38,160
it.

7949
05:45:38,160 --> 05:45:41,280
>> Thank you, Jess. I'm sorry, Sarah.

7950
05:45:41,280 --> 05:45:44,240
>> That's all right. Um, I attended a water

7951
05:45:44,240 --> 05:45:47,360
workshop earlier or last earlier last

7952
05:45:47,360 --> 05:45:50,080
week and that was really amazing because

7953
05:45:50,080 --> 05:45:52,240
um, Councilwoman Henman was there and

7954
05:45:52,240 --> 05:45:53,920
Steve Burroughs and some staff members

7955
05:45:53,920 --> 05:45:55,840
and it was really positive. I think

7956
05:45:55,840 --> 05:45:57,280
we're planning on reporting to the

7957
05:45:57,280 --> 05:46:02,150
council at some point.

7958
05:46:02,160 --> 05:46:04,240
» There was two things.

7959
05:46:04,240 --> 05:46:05,600
>> Okay, I'm going to skip you while you

7960
05:46:05,600 --> 05:46:06,240
think about it.

7961
05:46:06,240 --> 05:46:06,878
>> Thank you.

7962
05:46:06,878 --> 05:46:09,680
>> Can you briefly as possible? Let's try

7963
05:46:09,680 --> 05:46:11,760
to get done by midnight. Pretty please.

7964
05:46:11,760 --> 05:46:14,558
Suzanne Peterson has reached out quite a

7965
05:46:14,558 --> 05:46:16,400
few times. Is Is that it? Is that the

7966
05:46:16,400 --> 05:46:19,600
right name? Yep. Suzanne Peterson.

7967
05:46:19,600 --> 05:46:23,120
>> Yeah. The monument in um

7968
05:46:23,120 --> 05:46:25,200
uh the

7969
05:46:25,200 --> 05:46:25,840
>> cemetery.

7970
05:46:25,840 --> 05:46:29,600
adding the names of the women

7971
05:46:29,600 --> 05:46:31,120
pioneers

7972
05:46:31,120 --> 05:46:35,200
to the men. And I told her to get a bid.

7973
05:46:35,200 --> 05:46:38,160
And so she's got a bid. Um it's I can't

7974
05:46:38,160 --> 05:46:40,400
believe it around $3,000.

7975
05:46:40,400 --> 05:46:44,718
but that's to redo the bronze uh plaque

7976
05:46:44,718 --> 05:46:47,520
and she's wanting to know what to do

7977
05:46:47,520 --> 05:46:49,280
next if we want to bring that up as an

7978
05:46:49,280 --> 05:46:51,520
item. Now, now just so you know, the

7979
05:46:51,520 --> 05:46:53,920
budget item I put for historic stuff

7980
05:46:53,920 --> 05:46:56,240
that was 20 grand, this was one of the

7981
05:46:56,240 --> 05:46:57,920
things to do with that. So, I don't know

7982
05:46:57,920 --> 05:46:59,760
if we want to take that from I believe

7983
05:46:59,760 --> 05:47:03,760
you bumped it to the art fees or the art

7984
05:47:03,760 --> 05:47:06,240
money. The like it got pulled out of the

7985
05:47:06,240 --> 05:47:07,680
budget or something. I wanted in there

7986
05:47:07,680 --> 05:47:09,600
so we prioritize that type of stuff, but

7987
05:47:09,600 --> 05:47:11,280
it got bumped. So, I don't know what the

7988
05:47:11,280 --> 05:47:14,240
next steps are to tell her on what to

7989
05:47:14,240 --> 05:47:15,760
It's not just her. It's several. She's

7990
05:47:15,760 --> 05:47:17,680
just kind of spearheading it.

7991
05:47:17,680 --> 05:47:20,878
>> Um would we what would we do with that?

7992
05:47:20,878 --> 05:47:23,200
>> Well, to start with, is this the

7993
05:47:23,200 --> 05:47:26,160
monument on the north end?

7994
05:47:26,160 --> 05:47:28,400
>> So, the monument needs to be rebuilt.

7995
05:47:28,400 --> 05:47:31,040
>> Okay. So, that sits in a hole. So, I I

7996
05:47:31,040 --> 05:47:33,520
wouldn't suggest replacing it black

7997
05:47:33,520 --> 05:47:35,680
right now.

7998
05:47:35,680 --> 05:47:38,400
I think everyone would support fixing it

7999
05:47:38,400 --> 05:47:40,080
with that. So to do it together kind of

8000
05:47:40,080 --> 05:47:42,480
like this the Canyon Crest Road fix

8001
05:47:42,480 --> 05:47:44,000
things while it's being broken up.

8002
05:47:44,000 --> 05:47:47,360
>> Um it could be it potentially could be a

8003
05:47:47,360 --> 05:47:49,280
grant. I don't know. I bet we could find

8004
05:47:49,280 --> 05:47:51,120
something for it. Might take

8005
05:47:51,120 --> 05:47:52,958
>> There are cemetery grants I think up to

8006
05:47:52,958 --> 05:47:54,480
8,000.

8007
05:47:54,480 --> 05:47:56,080
>> Yeah. And I don't know if that's like a

8008
05:47:56,080 --> 05:47:59,680
cemetery. I don't know.

8009
05:47:59,680 --> 05:48:02,240
either, but I know that was

8010
05:48:02,240 --> 05:48:03,920
around a while back when I was looking

8011
05:48:03,920 --> 05:48:05,200
at Paris Grants.

8012
05:48:05,200 --> 05:48:07,520
>> Yeah. Okay.

8013
05:48:07,520 --> 05:48:08,718
Is there anything else? Let's

8014
05:48:08,718 --> 05:48:09,920
>> Yeah, it's on your radar.

8015
05:48:09,920 --> 05:48:11,760
>> Would it be okay to move it though? Cuz

8016
05:48:11,760 --> 05:48:13,760
like in your cuz our scripture garden

8017
05:48:13,760 --> 05:48:15,920
has like the stone that says this was

8018
05:48:15,920 --> 05:48:16,638
the original.

8019
05:48:16,638 --> 05:48:18,080
>> I'm pretty sure she would be okay with

8020
05:48:18,080 --> 05:48:19,840
I'll ask her uh and the other residents

8021
05:48:19,840 --> 05:48:21,120
train. That's just keep it on your

8022
05:48:21,120 --> 05:48:23,040
radar. Let me know what I should do to

8023
05:48:23,040 --> 05:48:23,840
help with that. We're going to put

8024
05:48:23,840 --> 05:48:25,760
money. Next thing is uh I don't know if

8025
05:48:25,760 --> 05:48:27,760
you got the email or or this this

8026
05:48:27,760 --> 05:48:29,440
Saturday is the trail day. Am I correct,

8027
05:48:29,440 --> 05:48:30,958
Brent? We're building

8028
05:48:30,958 --> 05:48:31,760
>> Yes, that's all.

8029
05:48:31,760 --> 05:48:32,000
>> Okay.

8030
05:48:32,000 --> 05:48:32,558
>> Yep.

8031
05:48:32,558 --> 05:48:34,400
>> Big big trail day. This Saturday, we're

8032
05:48:34,400 --> 05:48:36,080
building a bridge. There's an Eagle

8033
05:48:36,080 --> 05:48:38,240
project that might coordinate with it.

8034
05:48:38,240 --> 05:48:40,320
Um and then

8035
05:48:40,320 --> 05:48:42,080
>> I think it's all day Saturday or

8036
05:48:42,080 --> 05:48:44,638
starting at 8 a.m. I think I fly in

8037
05:48:44,638 --> 05:48:45,680
right before so I'm going to try to head

8038
05:48:45,680 --> 05:48:49,600
over and help build the bridge. Um

8039
05:48:49,600 --> 05:48:52,480
uh and then um there was a resident that

8040
05:48:52,480 --> 05:48:54,000
emailed I don't know if y'all got it

8041
05:48:54,000 --> 05:48:56,878
about the fireworks and wanting to bring

8042
05:48:56,878 --> 05:48:59,840
up a full ban on fireworks. I hadn't

8043
05:48:59,840 --> 05:49:01,360
even considered it. So I said I would

8044
05:49:01,360 --> 05:49:02,878
bring it up with you folks if you think

8045
05:49:02,878 --> 05:49:04,718
that when we get into July if you think

8046
05:49:04,718 --> 05:49:07,360
it's too dangerous to even have any

8047
05:49:07,360 --> 05:49:07,840
fireworks.

8048
05:49:07,840 --> 05:49:10,638
>> So Shane responded to him and the

8049
05:49:10,638 --> 05:49:13,360
reality is the state does not allow us

8050
05:49:13,360 --> 05:49:16,000
to do a citywide ban. Okay. Unless we've

8051
05:49:16,000 --> 05:49:19,760
had a fire recently, they're very um

8052
05:49:19,760 --> 05:49:22,958
there's a very heavy fireworks lobby and

8053
05:49:22,958 --> 05:49:24,558
they only there's only certain things we

8054
05:49:24,558 --> 05:49:26,000
can like ban

8055
05:49:26,000 --> 05:49:28,160
>> areas that are dangerous and properties

8056
05:49:28,160 --> 05:49:30,240
that we own. And so that's why the map

8057
05:49:30,240 --> 05:49:33,200
looks like the way it is. We have

8058
05:49:33,200 --> 05:49:36,400
>> made it illegal to do fireworks

8059
05:49:36,400 --> 05:49:38,400
>> on all the areas that we're legally

8060
05:49:38,400 --> 05:49:39,440
allowed to do.

8061
05:49:39,440 --> 05:49:40,480
>> Oh, interesting.

8062
05:49:40,480 --> 05:49:41,840
>> Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you.

8063
05:49:41,840 --> 05:49:44,000
>> Say the fire in Peterson Park was a fire

8064
05:49:44,000 --> 05:49:46,798
and just and just not have

8065
05:49:46,798 --> 05:49:48,400
>> Peterson Park. They can't do fireworks

8066
05:49:48,400 --> 05:49:49,600
there.

8067
05:49:49,600 --> 05:49:50,718
>> That's that's an area that they can't

8068
05:49:50,718 --> 05:49:53,200
do. It's already banned.

8069
05:49:53,200 --> 05:49:55,280
>> So, because people are idiot, we can't

8070
05:49:55,280 --> 05:49:56,320
legislate idiocy.

8071
05:49:56,320 --> 05:49:57,680
>> I think what Jessica is saying is we've

8072
05:49:57,680 --> 05:49:59,360
had a fire in our city. It happened to

8073
05:49:59,360 --> 05:50:01,360
be on public property. That would not

8074
05:50:01,360 --> 05:50:02,958
justify a banning the whole city.

8075
05:50:02,958 --> 05:50:05,360
>> Yeah. I just feel like for the our our

8076
05:50:05,360 --> 05:50:07,520
firefighters like that would

8077
05:50:07,520 --> 05:50:10,558
>> to not to have that open as a

8078
05:50:10,558 --> 05:50:12,160
possibility

8079
05:50:12,160 --> 05:50:15,120
>> seems irresponsible actually.

8080
05:50:15,120 --> 05:50:18,080
>> I agree. So I would talk to

8081
05:50:18,080 --> 05:50:21,040
>> I know I would I know but we can have

8082
05:50:21,040 --> 05:50:23,200
people come after us if we ban the

8083
05:50:23,200 --> 05:50:25,360
entire Don't get me wrong I'm totally

8084
05:50:25,360 --> 05:50:27,280
for a citywide ban. If you remember

8085
05:50:27,280 --> 05:50:28,958
several years ago when this happened I'm

8086
05:50:28,958 --> 05:50:31,280
like why are we even allowing fireworks?

8087
05:50:31,280 --> 05:50:34,320
I was right there with Mr. Derby. But

8088
05:50:34,320 --> 05:50:36,240
what I don't want to do is put us in a

8089
05:50:36,240 --> 05:50:39,920
situation that um a lobby that obviously

8090
05:50:39,920 --> 05:50:41,440
has a lot of money and resources to

8091
05:50:41,440 --> 05:50:43,520
change state law to number one allow

8092
05:50:43,520 --> 05:50:45,040
launchables

8093
05:50:45,040 --> 05:50:47,280
and then legislate enough that we can't

8094
05:50:47,280 --> 05:50:49,760
do a city-wide ban on a city that has

8095
05:50:49,760 --> 05:50:52,160
had what three fires in the last 20

8096
05:50:52,160 --> 05:50:54,480
years that were significant.

8097
05:50:54,480 --> 05:50:58,638
>> I understand. Um, but I would love it if

8098
05:50:58,638 --> 05:50:59,920
everyone, you know, what I encouraged

8099
05:50:59,920 --> 05:51:01,440
him to do is to write to his state

8100
05:51:01,440 --> 05:51:04,240
legislators to encourage and allow

8101
05:51:04,240 --> 05:51:07,120
municipalities to do this um to have

8102
05:51:07,120 --> 05:51:09,040
that power. But right now, we don't have

8103
05:51:09,040 --> 05:51:10,558
that power.

8104
05:51:10,558 --> 05:51:12,638
>> Um, it's not because I don't support it

8105
05:51:12,638 --> 05:51:14,240
or because, you know, I think it's a

8106
05:51:14,240 --> 05:51:17,760
stupid idea. I totally, if I could, I

8107
05:51:17,760 --> 05:51:19,840
would be pushing that wholeheartedly,

8108
05:51:19,840 --> 05:51:23,760
especially in a year like this year.

8109
05:51:23,760 --> 05:51:25,760
remember my three things. Did you Brent,

8110
05:51:25,760 --> 05:51:28,320
did you want to go?

8111
05:51:28,320 --> 05:51:29,840
>> Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. You're limited to

8112
05:51:29,840 --> 05:51:30,558
Brent.

8113
05:51:30,558 --> 05:51:32,878
>> Oh, I just had the trail date and Andrew

8114
05:51:32,878 --> 05:51:35,040
already mentioned it and I I forwarded

8115
05:51:35,040 --> 05:51:36,718
that email to Shane and Shane responded

8116
05:51:36,718 --> 05:51:39,120
to that resident.

8117
05:51:39,120 --> 05:51:40,480
>> Okay. Thank you. Okay.

8118
05:51:40,480 --> 05:51:42,718
>> Okay. Um, she already reported on the

8119
05:51:42,718 --> 05:51:44,400
water. I did think that was very

8120
05:51:44,400 --> 05:51:46,958
helpful. Um,

8121
05:51:46,958 --> 05:51:49,040
everyone the mo the big takeaway is

8122
05:51:49,040 --> 05:51:50,480
everybody wanted to know what we meant

8123
05:51:50,480 --> 05:51:52,558
by being self-sufficient. And it goes

8124
05:51:52,558 --> 05:51:55,120
back to my my belief that us being here

8125
05:51:55,120 --> 05:51:58,320
at the headgates of so many of the

8126
05:51:58,320 --> 05:52:00,558
mountains puts us in a very unique

8127
05:52:00,558 --> 05:52:02,558
position compared to other cities who

8128
05:52:02,558 --> 05:52:05,440
don't have our same opportunities. Um,

8129
05:52:05,440 --> 05:52:08,000
anyways, so it was it was a reminder to

8130
05:52:08,000 --> 05:52:09,440
me of how blessed we are to live in

8131
05:52:09,440 --> 05:52:12,160
Alpine among many things. Second was we

8132
05:52:12,160 --> 05:52:13,520
did have our finance committee meeting

8133
05:52:13,520 --> 05:52:16,160
on the 28th. It primarily focused on

8134
05:52:16,160 --> 05:52:20,638
revenue. It was very um uh educational

8135
05:52:20,638 --> 05:52:22,798
and we would like to report to you in a

8136
05:52:22,798 --> 05:52:25,120
less busy meeting some of the things we

8137
05:52:25,120 --> 05:52:27,440
learned and so that it becomes common

8138
05:52:27,440 --> 05:52:30,400
knowledge among our council. So Shane,

8139
05:52:30,400 --> 05:52:34,240
if you could let me know what that looks

8140
05:52:34,240 --> 05:52:35,280
like then um

8141
05:52:35,280 --> 05:52:36,400
>> July.

8142
05:52:36,400 --> 05:52:38,958
>> Yeah, July that that's fine.

8143
05:52:38,958 --> 05:52:39,760
>> Sales tax meeting.

8144
05:52:39,760 --> 05:52:41,040
>> Yeah. And then we're also going to once

8145
05:52:41,040 --> 05:52:42,240
we approve the budget, we're going to

8146
05:52:42,240 --> 05:52:44,160
have the citizen. So, there's a few more

8147
05:52:44,160 --> 05:52:46,000
things coming. Um, and thank you for

8148
05:52:46,000 --> 05:52:47,040
those that

8149
05:52:47,040 --> 05:52:49,600
>> were able to attend um the 28th. And

8150
05:52:49,600 --> 05:52:53,520
then the third thing was I came I woke

8151
05:52:53,520 --> 05:52:55,760
up in the morning and I said, "We never

8152
05:52:55,760 --> 05:52:58,718
talked about the park tax allocation."

8153
05:52:58,718 --> 05:53:01,120
>> So, he reminded me of number three.

8154
05:53:01,120 --> 05:53:03,040
>> What are we doing in our budget for

8155
05:53:03,040 --> 05:53:04,958
that? It's like, is that something we

8156
05:53:04,958 --> 05:53:07,120
need a motion on? I I wanted it to be

8157
05:53:07,120 --> 05:53:08,718
two motions and it took so long to get

8158
05:53:08,718 --> 05:53:11,120
the first one finished. We skipped it.

8159
05:53:11,120 --> 05:53:11,440
Yeah.

8160
05:53:11,440 --> 05:53:12,798
>> Shane, what do you recommend at this

8161
05:53:12,798 --> 05:53:13,760
point about park tax?

8162
05:53:13,760 --> 05:53:15,600
>> I thought I thought we sent an email on

8163
05:53:15,600 --> 05:53:18,160
that and Steve even replied to it that

8164
05:53:18,160 --> 05:53:19,920
it can just be taken care of as part of

8165
05:53:19,920 --> 05:53:21,680
the final budget.

8166
05:53:21,680 --> 05:53:23,200
>> It does.

8167
05:53:23,200 --> 05:53:26,878
>> Okay. As a separate item.

8168
05:53:26,878 --> 05:53:29,520
>> It can just I think it can be wrapped

8169
05:53:29,520 --> 05:53:30,718
into the budget.

8170
05:53:30,718 --> 05:53:32,558
>> Wait, so does that mean we put things

8171
05:53:32,558 --> 05:53:35,280
that we allocated for the park tax? No,

8172
05:53:35,280 --> 05:53:37,520
it was allocating funds and then what we

8173
05:53:37,520 --> 05:53:39,120
actually spend the funds on will come

8174
05:53:39,120 --> 05:53:41,760
after the master parks master plan is

8175
05:53:41,760 --> 05:53:44,160
produced like your heritage thing could

8176
05:53:44,160 --> 05:53:46,000
also be doing other heritage things.

8177
05:53:46,000 --> 05:53:46,240
Okay.

8178
05:53:46,240 --> 05:53:48,160
>> I just think it's allocating the funds

8179
05:53:48,160 --> 05:53:51,200
saying 70 my idea was 7030 but whatever

8180
05:53:51,200 --> 05:53:53,440
we decide is that going to you want a

8181
05:53:53,440 --> 05:53:57,520
percentage or what do you need next in a two weeks? I think percentage

8182
05:53:57,520 --> 05:53:59,920
>> a percentage of the tax

8183
05:53:59,920 --> 05:54:02,878
>> but the 30 if when approved

8184
05:54:02,878 --> 05:54:05,360
wait for the park master plan and I move

8185
05:54:05,360 --> 05:54:06,480
to adjourn the meeting.

8186
05:54:06,480 --> 05:54:08,160
>> Okay. Is there a second?

8187
05:54:08,160 --> 05:54:09,120
>> I second.

8188
05:54:09,120 --> 05:54:10,638
>> Okay. It's been moved by Councilwoman

8189
05:54:10,638 --> 05:54:12,160
SMU and seconded by Councilwoman

8190
05:54:12,160 --> 05:54:14,080
Blackwell. All in favor?

8191
05:54:14,080 --> 05:54:16,000
>> I

8192
05:54:16,000 --> 05:54:17,600
>> have a good one, Brent.

8193
05:54:17,600 --> 05:54:28,070
>> Thanks. Good night.

8194
05:54:28,080 --> 05:54:31,520
So, did you get that