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Okay, let's call to order the Alpine

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City Council work session for Tuesday,

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June 30th at 12:00 p.m.

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We will start with the roll call

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starting from Councilman Remler and end

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with Councilman Hannemann.

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>> Brent Remler, present.

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>> Jessica Smith, present.

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>> Sarah Blackwell, present.

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>> Andrew Young, present.

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>> Christie Hannemann, present.

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>> Okay, we'll proceed with the prayer from

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Brent Remler and a pledge by Jessica

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Smith.

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» Father in heaven, we're grateful for

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this very beautiful day, for the cool

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weather. We pray that it will help

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those

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fighting the fires throughout Utah and

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other areas nearby.

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We are grateful for

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the blessings to live in Alpine and

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be associated with the our friends and

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neighbors here in Alpine.

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We pray for those fighting the fires and

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those addressing our public safety on a

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daily basis. We pray for our US

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military.

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We are grateful for the freedoms we have

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in this country. We look forward to

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celebrating

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our Independence Day

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and our 250th anniversary. Please guide

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us in our role in the City Council and

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please bless

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our residents. In the name of Jesus

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Christ. Amen.

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>> Amen.

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>> Stand for the pledge.

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» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

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United States of America. And to the

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republic for which it stands, one nation

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under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.

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» Okay.

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Let's start with our work session, which

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is the compensation for our staff for

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Alpine City.

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» I don't really have The council asked

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for this work session and we provided,

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you know, the information in the last

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packet. So, I don't really have a

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presentation or anything. It's really

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just work session for the council.

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» Did anyone know

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Anyone want to start Oh, I did want to

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address um So, Brent, you talked about

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that I um misquoted the salary for um

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Cedar Hills and I did. It but it was

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based on the um

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the wage study that we did.

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And when um Shane looked into it and

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went into Technet

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So, Technet is based on

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whenever and whatever information they

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load onto

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this

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Is it It's statewide, isn't it?

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>> It's whoever subscribes to it.

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>> Right. That's in our state. And so, they

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put that in and they put the number in

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wrong. So, when the guy did the salary

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study, I was quoting you what I had just

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seen in the salary study that this is

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what it is.

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Um but since then, I asked the mayor of

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Cedar Hills to send their latest thing.

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And that's how it was off. So, it was

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based off of the hourly salary that they

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put in for the actual average salary,

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which is usually their salary. But they

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had input it wrong.

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>> And it's

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cities input the information.

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>> Yeah, not the guy. He just took the

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information that the cities put in.

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>> Right. And it could have and and I don't

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know, maybe perhaps it included because

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he gets a vehicle allowance. That's just built into his pay.

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>> It's not. It was just his straight

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salary and they did it wrong. And it was

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weird like they

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I think it's just an error on their part

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cuz they didn't put the actual average

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salary. They did

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the They did the median salary, but how

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do you have a median salary? How do you

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do a median when there's only one? A

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median is multiple data points. It has

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the most data points for, you know, the

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» a clerical error.

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Cuz it doesn't make or it's or they

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didn't understand what median was. Maybe

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they thought that was the average. I

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don't know.

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» Would you like me to start?

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>> Surely.

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>> gave the prayer.

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So, I just want to clarify for the

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public, for the employees, um

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one of the main reasons I chose to agree

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with tabling the issue about wages was

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because

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in our my first year of service in 2024

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for the 2025 budget year, we kind of had

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a very last minute

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um notice of of a much more significant

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raise in a couple of positions, the

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executive positions, than were expected.

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And so, I thought we had clarified that

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we were hoping we would like to see in

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the future that not happen again.

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And then, with this latest round, we

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knew that the 5% in the tentative budget

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was a placeholder because that's what

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the police and fire got.

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And we were waiting the Monday before

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the week of our meeting, so 8 days

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before our meeting, Chris and I met with

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Carl and Shane and went over some of the benefit comparisons that

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they've been working on, Carl has been

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working on. I really appreciate that.

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We're just trying to make informed

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decisions on behalf of the Alpine

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residents.

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And um

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Carl said she still hadn't canvassed all

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the mayors and didn't have her proposal

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yet. So, she said she would get it to us

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as soon as possible.

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And then on Friday, we got the packet. I

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was out of town at a family wedding and

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just didn't have time to look at it. So,

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I wasn't going to be able to look at it

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until Monday.

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Um and that had a proposal of 5% without

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any

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analysis about why 5%. And I think just

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I think the taxpayers and the city

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council I've looked at I've looked at

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minutes from other city council meetings

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in the last couple of days as I've

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now had the time to look through this

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more thoroughly like I think I should in

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my role on the city council. I think I

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owe that to our residents. That's what I

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put in my

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campaign that that's what I would do, do

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my very best to make the most informed

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decisions possible.

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And um so we got the 5% without any

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justification. So I was calling the

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other council members cuz we're trying

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to prepare not just for this issue but

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all the issues on the agenda and in just

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a couple of uh two short days for me

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anyway.

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And uh we're all kind of feeling the

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same way in the same boat and we never

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heard from Carla, the mayor, about

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the analysis that was done, the the the

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reason behind the proposal.

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So just to make perfectly clear as a

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former I wrote I wore my ex-Fed shirt

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today.

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I went did a presentation at River

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Meadows last night about my career and

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pulled this out of my drawer.

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But I fully support paying our

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employees, our fire police and fire and

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all of our city employees a very fair

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wage and providing compe- competitive

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benefits all those things.

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So

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I talked to Chrissy the last because she

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works and Chrissy and I spoke Monday

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evening and I said, "Hey, we still

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haven't gotten any information from the

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mayor.

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Maybe

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if you you were I think Chrissy said she

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was going to be talking to the mayor so

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I said you might want to ask her about

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that. So I think it was

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I saw the email on Tuesday morning the

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mayor sent out her email um late Monday

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night saying that she proposed a 4.2%

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cost of living increase based on the

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last 12-month consumer price index

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and

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.8%

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uh for performance-based bonuses based

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on

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annual performance reviews, which I

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really like that idea. I like the idea

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of setting aside a certain amount of

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money to

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for the supervisors to review

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performance reviews, see the employees

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who have

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um

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kind of kind of go gone above and beyond

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or performing well and and issue

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performance incentives or bonuses.

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So, the main reason I agreed with my

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fellow council members, three of them

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anyway, to table it was I just felt like

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we owed it to the residents to make sure

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we understood

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the purpose of the raise. And we've had

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some back and forth

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emails and sharing of information over

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the last several days hopefully to make

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this more productive.

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So, again, that's just the the

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reasoning.

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And Shane sent me I I messed up and

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forgot that he'd sent me the last 10

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years of reviews.

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But as part of the email he forwarded

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from last year,

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he said, "In making recommendations for

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wage increases, we look at several

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different sources of data, including the

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CPI for Western region,

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URS Cola,

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data from Technology Net,

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review of a survey circulated through

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the city managers in the state, and

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checking to see what other cities are

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paying for positions. The mayor has also

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discussed wage increases with other

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local mayors, and has shared that info

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with me." So, that was 2025.

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Um I think that's a great

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basis for doing these analyses these

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analyses to help us make informed

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decisions. It doesn't look like that was

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done this year. I asked for

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clarification yesterday.

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Um and maybe you're planning to tell me

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today whether

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it was more than just the CPI

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and more than just the review of mayors.

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But if that that was it, that's fine.

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That's what we have to look on. So, we

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all kind of did some independent

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research, found out that the Utah state

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uh wage increase for all state employees

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is 2 and 1/2%.

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The survey that the mayor provided nine

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there were nine respondents. I asked

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yesterday if she'd heard from American

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Fork.

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So, that would be the 10th. But, without

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having American Fork's data,

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the average of the nine that responded

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was just over 4.55%.

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But, what I don't know, does that does

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that include bonuses? Do they give

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bonuses in those nine cities?

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Um cuz I I want to I want to pay our

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employees a fair wage. I want to retain

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them. I want to show them our our

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appreciation.

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I just feel that we can have a better

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system. I think we've made improvements.

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In our my first year, we were told we

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00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,480
can't even know

280
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,240
the salaries and compensation of our

281
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,120
benefits, and that's been re-

282
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,320
resolved.

283
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,760
And then, um

284
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,040
just hope hopefully you can move them

285
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,160
forward.

286
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,720
We can just have

287
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,440
the the pro- proposals ahead of time and

288
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,000
a more thorough analysis. I looked at

289
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,440
American Fork's

290
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:31,920
budget. I grant that it's a much bigger

291
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,200
city with a much bigger staff.

292
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:35,880
And their

293
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,120
financial report was very robust. I

294
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,320
think Chrissy would be a good thing for

295
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,120
you to look at as part of your citizen

296
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,640
finance committee.

297
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,000
>> So, was it more than just the CPI and

298
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,320
the wages of American

299
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,320
>> did get a response from American Fork.

300
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,240
Their um it was not from Dave. I spoke

301
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,120
with Dave and the mayor the previous

302
00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,000
week, and they kept saying

303
00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,600
nothing's locked down, nothing's locked

304
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,160
down. So, I didn't have data for them. I

305
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,800
finally got a hold of one of their city

306
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,640
council people, and they said this is

307
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,000
how they decided to do it.

308
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,640
They do an annual um

309
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,240
wage study, and they make adjustments,

310
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,839
and then they're doing a 3% increase.

311
00:11:15,839 --> 00:11:16,240
So,

312
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,680
>> 3% with a potential to do an adjustment

313
00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:19,160
later.

314
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,760
>> Up to 3%. No, well, no, the adjustment

315
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,960
is going to happen. They do the

316
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,640
adjustment every year

317
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,120
on salaries,

318
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:27,720
and um

319
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,720
they were saying that the adjustment

320
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,480
could be zero and up to 3%, but no more

321
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,360
than 3% and then they do an additional

322
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,200
3%.

323
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,680
But she like they don't know exactly

324
00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:40,520
what that cuz I'm like well do you have

325
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,440
a total percentage? Do you know how

326
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:43,880
that's broken up? And she's like I don't

327
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,120
have that.

328
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,200
>> Well, it sounds like

329
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,640
cities [clears throat] have different

330
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,240
ways to do this. So hopefully

331
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,360
um our our executive staff can come up

332
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,200
with something that's more consistent.

333
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:56,840
Um

334
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,320
cuz the first my first two years serving

335
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,960
it they were called merit raises.

336
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,960
And then this year, at least that's what

337
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,320
was on the budget the the final budgets.

338
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,520
And then this year it was cola. Can I

339
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:08,320
just

340
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,520
I like the idea. I really think

341
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,160
again, exped

342
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,800
I know Chrissy sometimes is frustrated

343
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,080
that I use the example of my ex what the

344
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,120
federal government does.

345
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,800
But they

346
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,600
we can't just base it on cost of living

347
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,040
because there is value added for time in

348
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,200
service, getting experience, and to

349
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,240
doing better in your roles. And that's

350
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:29,480
what the federal government has. It has

351
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,480
a grade and step process where if you're

352
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,720
in a position, you're at a certain

353
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,280
grade, and you get steps. The after the

354
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:36,600
first year

355
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,000
you get a step increase. The second and

356
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,080
third you get a step increase. Then it's

357
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,000
every two years. So it's not every year.

358
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,800
As you get more experienced, the steps

359
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,920
are fewer. They're they're more spread

360
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,080
out. And then your for your years 8, 9,

361
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,560
and 10, it's every three years you get a

362
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,440
step increase. So on those off years,

363
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,520
you just get the cola whatever the

364
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,000
president recommends and Congress

365
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,480
approves. Which during the 20

366
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,520
10 to 2019 before COVID, it was meager

367
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,400
as you saw in my in my

368
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,120
and I was capped out.

369
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,360
So I just got that cola. All right.

370
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,080
Sorry, Chrissy. Are you going to

371
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,160
>> Oh, I I can't see anyone. Um but I did

372
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,120
want to review the information. I think

373
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,120
this was a work session.

374
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,880
So I want to make sure that we did cover

375
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,680
the information that was provided to us.

376
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:27,000
Especially the the the work um

377
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,480
>> So I guess my question was was it was it

378
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:29,720
just it was just those two things you

379
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,400
considered? In proposing the 4.2

380
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:33,960
>> can we can we back up and just

381
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,520
understand I mean we can get to that but

382
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,720
I would like to cover

383
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,280
I don't like I feel like that's going to

384
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,240
be our final discussion but the um wage

385
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,040
study that broke out um Alpine City

386
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,200
compared to other peer groups.

387
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,960
Um, I I have it up on my computer but I

388
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,560
can't screen share.

389
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,000
So I'm happy to just talk about it if

390
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,880
you're familiar with it.

391
00:13:58,880 --> 00:13:59,840
>> Well,

392
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:01,800
my understanding of the work session was

393
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,720
that we all now had time to digest all

394
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,320
the information that we were given and

395
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:08,560
then go

396
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,080
and

397
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,240
confirm I mean we just found out that

398
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,840
some of the information that was um

399
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,800
given about the wage in another city was

400
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,800
not accurate so so we do want to include

401
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,640
the information that was given to us but

402
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,400
that's not all this work session will

403
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:26,520
do.

404
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,840
Uh it's a work session and time for

405
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,240
council

406
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,240
to discuss you know what we have found

407
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,680
now that we've had a few days to look at

408
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,600
it and understand

409
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,080
um the impact you know basically the the

410
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,960
items that the motion makes which is um

411
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,120
you know

412
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,960
what's our compensation philosophy?

413
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,680
What's market comparisons? What's

414
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,280
internal equity look like?

415
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,280
>> Exactly. That's

416
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:54,240
>> so that's uh

417
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,760
>> That's I feel like we're overstepping

418
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,160
all of those things and getting to the

419
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,400
final conclusion. If we could just go

420
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,040
back to what the motion was cuz I feel

421
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,720
like the wage study has uh the front

422
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,640
page of it talks about what's our

423
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,160
philosophy

424
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,120
and um I think maybe we could at least

425
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,520
um

426
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,600
say what what

427
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,160
uh

428
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,240
what our philosophy is and then another

429
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,160
thing we wanted to talk about was they

430
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,480
did the whole benefits. So, to me

431
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,080
there's like two different pieces. One

432
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,800
is compensation, and one is benefits,

433
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,280
and then we can look at the total

434
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,800
compensation, which is what where the

435
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,800
discussion is going. And this fixation

436
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,440
on a percentage is very limited um cuz

437
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,640
we're not talking about everything yet.

438
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,920
So, I I guess I just wanted to

439
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,480
talk about that in total because

440
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,240
it's just one column on that huge

441
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,680
spreadsheet of all the impact of

442
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,560
compensation.

443
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,360
>> And that was the wow?

444
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,240
>> Yes, the very first page it if you I

445
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,200
have it pulled up in Excel.

446
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,800
And it talks about the philosophy, the

447
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,400
compensation philosophy.

448
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,520
>> And that compensation philosophy was

449
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,880
dictated by

450
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,400
>> No, it's not dictated.

451
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:16,640
>> Oh.

452
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,320
>> No,

453
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,320
if let's we could read it together, or

454
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,200
if you haven't read it yet, I could

455
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,720
summarize it if that'd be helpful.

456
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,160
If you haven't read this page

457
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,160
specifically cuz I do think it gets to

458
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,080
some of why we have some disconnects.

459
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:33,720
Is um

460
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:34,920
I'll just read it while you're looking

461
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:35,880
for it.

462
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:36,680
>> Yeah,

463
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,040
well, why don't you read it, Chrissy?

464
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:38,720
That'd be fine.

465
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,000
>> Okay.

466
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,280
Yeah, I think hold on, I got to shrink

467
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,880
it so I can still see what you guys are

468
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:44,880
seeing.

469
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,960
>> Is that under the introduction tab?

470
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,400
>> I can read it if you want, Chrissy.

471
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,320
>> I know I got it. It's fine.

472
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,560
So, I'll just summarize it cuz I've read

473
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,240
it over a couple times. I said that in

474
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,560
the beginning it talks about there's a

475
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,520
debate in with the way to compensate

476
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,160
people about whether or not it should be

477
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,760
market-driven or market-based solely, or

478
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,800
you could also have um classifications,

479
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,160
which is somewhat what um Brent refers

480
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,640
to, and which I have seen in larger

481
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,280
organizations,

482
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,880
and um where the job is classed in a

483
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,880
certain way like based on the skill set

484
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,000
that you need. And then based on your

485
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,199
experience it there's, um,

486
00:17:24,199 --> 00:17:27,439
steps up, however you want to call them.

487
00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:29,800
And then they that's to create equity

488
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,080
among, um,

489
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,120
among the employees. So, you know, if

490
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:35,640
you have more responsibility, more skill

491
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,120
set, you're paid appropriately, more

492
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,240
experience, that type of thing.

493
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,320
And then there's it goes on for a couple

494
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,800
paragraphs which, um, I won't go over. I

495
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,520
just want to get to the conclusion which

496
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,720
it says that, um, that to subscribe to

497
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,000
any approach to the total exclusion of

498
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,320
the other ultimately results in

499
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,600
incongruity, meaning it's not maybe one

500
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,560
is not pay paying attention to the

501
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:02,800
market.

502
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,120
And so, like when we had with with our,

503
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,720
um, public safety, we had fallen behind

504
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,240
the market and so we had to do some

505
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,200
catch up because people, um, were we

506
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,320
weren't able to compete. But then on the

507
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,000
other hand, we do appreciate the equity

508
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,400
among the employees. So, it's good to

509
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,080
have some type of classification system.

510
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,800
So, that was kind of the basis for this

511
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,920
whole, um, wow thing that was given was

512
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,800
to tell us like, here's the market and

513
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,480
they tried their best to do a

514
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,400
classification system.

515
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,440
But because, um, we have such a small

516
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,800
staff,

517
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,360
we many of our staff wear multiple hats.

518
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,240
So, there's not always an equivalent

519
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,760
position out there in the marketplace.

520
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,840
But they did their best and it was, um,

521
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,640
a good effort. So, I don't know if you

522
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,160
want to go, uh, if anyone has any more

523
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,640
to say about that. Um, I just thought

524
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,600
that was a really good introduction to,

525
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,520
um, what we're trying to accomplish here

526
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,200
is is both market and merit, so to

527
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,520
speak.

528
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:05,560
Does anyone

529
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:05,840
>> So,

530
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,400
>> I can't see you so I

531
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,840
>> So, what I took away from this and and the

532
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,960
overall conclusion.

533
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:14,200
um,

534
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,400
>> I can see you now.

535
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,560
>> Yeah, the overall conclusion aligns that

536
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,160
we don't just want to look at one data

537
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,680
point. We also need to look at merit.

538
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,800
Um which we haven't set up a clear

539
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,440
process for.

540
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,200
And so um

541
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,560
the other

542
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,720
I think not misleading, but what this

543
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,720
didn't capture in the WOW study is it

544
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,520
didn't compare apples to apples. And so

545
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,200
I sent out an email right before the

546
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,240
meeting

547
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,000
that was just an overview of cities of

548
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,640
the fourth class. And that's really what

549
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,360
we're looking at because cities of the

550
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:49,840
fourth class

551
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,080
also have employees that wear multiple

552
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,000
hats. So that's not a unique

553
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,960
situation that we find ourselves here in Alpine. That's actually fairly common

554
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,480
for cities of our size. And so

555
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,120
um

556
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,160
while the WOW was a great framework, it

557
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,840
was way too broad

558
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,720
when I was considering it for

559
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,000
the city of Alpine.

560
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,680
>> So you So if you go to the second page,

561
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,840
the responsibility page,

562
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,080
like I feel like it's very scientific. I

563
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,480
mean, I don't I don't know why Anyway, I

564
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,560
thought it was very helpful.

565
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,320
So this was just like they tried to come

566
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,200
up with some factors that were unique to

567
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,040
us. And

568
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,520
then job knowledge and like they So I

569
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,000
they do hundreds of these. So I have a

570
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,240
feeling

571
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,360
over time they've you know, perfected

572
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,040
it. Not Not that it's perfect. But they

573
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,120
do

574
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,400
um have a lot of factors in here to come

575
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,440
up with like the equity side of it. And

576
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,800
then when they If you go over to the um

577
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,360
the tab that Let me tell you the title

578
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,680
of that tab.

579
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:06,400
Um Oh, keep going. Sorry. I'm not I only have Let's see. I'm going to It's

580
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,440
called the Where is it?

581
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,360
Uh minimum practices is the first one.

582
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:14,400
So, this is how do we compare to minimum

583
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,720
and this is like it's taking a huge

584
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,480
database of looking at local

585
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,400
um cities and what do they pay for like

586
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,960
a public works technician, a planner, a

587
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,560
city engineer because those are pretty

588
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,520
defined roles, I feel like in a city,

589
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,760
and some other things um where where

590
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,760
like the city treasurer {slash} office

591
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,120
manager {slash} HR {slash} payroll

592
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,680
admin, that probably isn't exactly

593
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,720
nobody wears exactly those same hats at

594
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,440
any other city, but that's all factored

595
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,600
in into the job value. So, there was a

596
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,520
lot of work that went into that one

597
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,080
number of um I don't know if you're on

598
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,680
the minimum practices page. So, to me it

599
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,720
was very scientific. I'm a numbers

600
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,360
person, so I did like enjoy seeing all

601
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,520
the numbers and gaining meaning from

602
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,400
them. So, anyways, Alpine City's below

603
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,200
the survey minimum, the midpoint we're

604
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,640
below the um the survey included all the

605
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,280
cities except the largest two in the

606
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,520
county or

607
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,640
a good cross-section of cities in the

608
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:17,760
county.

609
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,560
And then um the next one

610
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,640
is the maximum practices and we're still

611
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:23,880
below.

612
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,200
So, I thought it was insightful to see

613
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,160
that if you look at like the market is

614
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,760
showing and then if you go to the Alpine

615
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,440
City practices

616
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,160
tab the green is um that that's the

617
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,440
maximum and then midpoint and below. So,

618
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:41,840
there's a a few employees that are

619
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,120
getting paid far below that I even our

620
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,080
minimum and then a a couple of outliers

621
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,600
that are way up high on the um on their

622
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,160
experience range, but for the most part

623
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,360
like we're we're grouped down between

624
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,120
the 5 to 10 years of experience and

625
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:02,480
salary range. It's not um overly

626
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,200
worrisome to me

627
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,160
any of this. It looks like everybody's

628
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,560
in a good range except maybe there's a

629
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,240
couple employees that look like they're

630
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,120
below. And maybe there's a reason for

631
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:14,680
that. And then the survey range is

632
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,600
looking at all the cities, not just

633
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:17,840
Alpine.

634
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,920
Um, the survey range comparison, I I can

635
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,320
see the people watching the meeting but

636
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,960
I I don't know what your screen is, so

637
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,120
I hope I'm you're following this.

638
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:28,680
Um, and then it went on with an

639
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,840
implementation plan, a pay plan and

640
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,600
implementation plan.

641
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,840
Down to the dollars, you know, who who

642
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,880
would need, um, to have their

643
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,040
compensation adjusted to be equitable

644
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,080
both among other cities, but also, um,

645
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,720
you know, among Alpine. So, I thought

646
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,360
the wage I thought the the document was

647
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,480
really good and it sort of supported the

648
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,800
fact that, um,

649
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,120
we're just on par with the other cities

650
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,760
and when when the mayor went and

651
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,600
collected percentages or, um,

652
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,640
when I think we started, uh,

653
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,680
you read the email,

654
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,120
Brent, from Shane that talked about they

655
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,920
look at CPI and Cola and a couple of

656
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,520
factors to come up with a percentage. It

657
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,440
gave me a lot of confidence that even

658
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,760
without

659
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,720
all the data points in the past, we we

660
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,280
are, um,

661
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,520
we've done a good job because we're not

662
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,880
too high, we're not too low across the

663
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,560
board, we're right where we should be.

664
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,760
And so, there is

665
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,120
even though we didn't have the data to

666
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,680
support it, it was good to see that

667
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,880
we're, um, in the median range where we

668
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,680
wanted to be, at least with salaries.

669
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,120
Now, like I said, there's two parts of

670
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:48,680
the discussion. One is comp salary

671
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,480
compensation or wages and salaries, and

672
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,600
the other is just the benefits. So,

673
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,360
that's my two cents. I felt like this

674
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,160
was a validation that our employees are

675
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,280
paid fairly and not only just for the

676
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,960
market but for the work that they

677
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,520
actually do.

678
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,480
So, that's my takeaway from looking

679
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,520
through all these spreadsheets

680
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,600
um all the tabs and going through it

681
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,480
very carefully which I had no time to do

682
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,800
prior to the our meeting on Tuesday. So,

683
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,080
in the interim I have taken the time and

684
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,880
so this has been really good and I I

685
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,440
asked somebody who's done these type of

686
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,520
things before and they said it's good to

687
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,240
do this like

688
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,440
about for every 3 to 5 years. 5 years

689
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,720
would probably be good. After that then

690
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,160
they're sort of out of date. So, I I

691
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,920
think it was really helpful for me to

692
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,160
see this.

693
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,120
Um and that those were my comments about

694
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:43,200
the this particular study. And I I found

695
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,600
it to be very valuable and

696
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,960
a confirmation like I said. That that's

697
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,200
my input.

698
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,280
>> Yes, so I know um Jessica wants to just

699
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,200
do straight salary and she just took um

700
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,720
the city administrator it looks like and

701
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,560
not everybody else but when you look at

702
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,760
that it doesn't have all the other data.

703
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,000
Like if you read the study it goes into

704
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,440
it and how they are

705
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,680
um

706
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,920
as Chrissy explained because our jobs

707
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,480
are so unique I don't know anybody else

708
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,400
on that other list of the nine cities

709
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,240
where their city administrator is also

710
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,080
holding two other major responsibilities

711
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:20,640
also.

712
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,200
>> But those are the points that I really

713
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,560
want to hold on to.

714
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,720
>> But then when you do that

715
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,480
that's what they factor into it and then

716
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,800
um

717
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,560
it also factors into which I think is

718
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,360
one of the most valuable assets is

719
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,080
institutional knowledge is the years on

720
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,120
the job, right? And it's not just um you

721
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:41,960
know, Shane has additional knowledge as

722
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,160
an engineer and he was in the

723
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,920
professional world before that. Um you

724
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,520
know, and I would think that anybody

725
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,680
else like you know, you've got Cayden

726
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,120
and if you look at the study he's one of

727
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:52,920
the lowest paid. Well, it's cuz he's

728
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,680
brand new. He has

729
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,680
He doesn't have the years of experience.

730
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,160
If Kayden had come in with 5 years

731
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,880
experience, there's no way we'd be able

732
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,640
to hire him at the rate that he is at

733
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,440
now. So, you have to take all of those

734
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,160
factors into consideration.

735
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:08,960
And so, [clears throat] just doing a

736
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,360
straight analysis just based on their

737
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:13,680
straight salaries, and then not even

738
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,760
looking at what their staff size is or

739
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,640
anything else like that. It to me, it's

740
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,720
you're not comparing apples to apples.

741
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,760
>> Yeah, I don't want to do just a straight

742
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,200
salary analysis. I

743
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,360
So, that's not accurate. I want to do on

744
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:29,680
performance. I want to look at look look

745
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,000
at everything, all the factors going in.

746
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,000
So,

747
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,360
but what we were given

748
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:37,040
from the wild study

749
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,160
started with the salary analysis. And

750
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,360
so, I went to it

751
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,440
like Chrissy did and reviewed it. And

752
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,040
then I wanted to support it from what's

753
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,480
in our market. I mean, that kind of

754
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,320
overlays into my real estate background.

755
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,920
When you do a market analysis, you don't

756
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,080
try to find a comp for your house in the

757
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,560
entire state of Utah. You actually have

758
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,120
a really narrow area that you look at to

759
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,480
determine what's the value of a property

760
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,080
because there are so many variables

761
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,600
going in. So, what I did is I said,

762
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,320
"Let's just look at what Cedar Hills is

763
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,440
doing." I really want to see what the

764
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,200
compensation package looks like. And I

765
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,400
was hoping that it supported

766
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,360
the wild study because

767
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:23,880
you know, trying to

768
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,760
um just make decisions on spending

769
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,040
taxpayer dollars and the equity of our

770
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,360
employees.

771
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:30,600
And I was

772
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,440
fairly surprised that when I laid out

773
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,160
again a comparable and I matched up you

774
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,800
know, their city manager to our city

775
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,760
manager, their public works lead to our

776
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,480
public works lead, that I actually found

777
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,920
that in the five top paid employees,

778
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,840
we'll just call it at the manager or at

779
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,360
the administrator level, that the city

780
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,480
of Alpine pays $98,000 more than Cedar

781
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,800
Hills, our neighbor. And then when I

782
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:58,120
compare

783
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,560
>> in the fourth class, you know that,

784
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,120
right? They're below 10,000. They're

785
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,840
considered rural.

786
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,160
Cedar Hills lost that designation in the

787
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,400
last um

788
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,400
cert- What is it when they not survey

789
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,560
>> census

790
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,160
>> But if you look at the other data

791
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,440
>> just finish this comment. And then when

792
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,200
you compare what they're paying their

793
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,240
other staff members

794
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,920
to what we pay our other staff members,

795
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,880
we actually pay them, again, as

796
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,120
conclusive of a comparison as possible,

797
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,120
$134,000

798
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,360
less. So if we're concerned about

799
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,920
retention and equity, we need to be

800
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,320
looking at our staff at those levels and

801
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,040
make those adjustments. An

802
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,960
across-the-board

803
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,360
isn't what Alpine needs

804
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,800
to make and create equity and to serve

805
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,720
our public.

806
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,080
>> I actually had that same thought,

807
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,360
Jessica, because looking at this page

808
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,600
where the implementation page, I don't

809
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,520
know if you're there, but there were some that need to to be

810
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,280
equitable, some need more, and some need

811
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,560
less than for the COLA adjustment. Just

812
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,920
because to make it equitable, and that's

813
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,840
what was showing up there in that Yeah,

814
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,160
here it is. Thank you. In this option,

815
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,040
um

816
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,680
some some are are they they just

817
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,120
recommended that some be adjusted to be

818
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,680
more equitable, and some are already

819
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,000
high enough that um they don't need an

820
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,680
adjustment. So rather My thought was

821
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,440
kind of like Jessica's, she's basing it

822
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,760
on Cedar Hills. So maybe we're getting

823
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,960
to the same place in a different way, is

824
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,000
that if we just said, "Let's Let's give

825
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,520
a 5% compensation increase across the

826
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,520
board, and then have the staff decide,

827
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,120
you know, basically Shane and um his

828
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,800
leadership team decide, okay, who needs

829
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,880
to a little bit of a bump and who's good

830
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,760
with where they at compared to like cuz

831
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,240
they the whole study like cuz some are

832
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,000
like I said, there's some are who's are

833
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,400
outliers and then take the money that's

834
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,120
left after that and spread it evenly

835
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,760
across the board. Do you know what I'm

836
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,360
saying? Like so that we're we're

837
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,880
bringing equity among employees.

838
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,960
>> Christie, I I I like all the comments so

839
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,440
far and I I really appreciate that we

840
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,080
had an extra week to do this cuz I didn't feel like I was

841
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,800
we had enough information and had time

842
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,440
to digest it all. So, this has been very beneficial.

843
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,040
I like the idea of doing

844
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,600
maybe calling a partial part of the

845
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,000
whatever the percentage is we decide on

846
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,360
a cola that's across the board

847
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,760
and give our management some discretion

848
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,200
for the non-executive employees

849
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,960
to try and

850
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,720
decide where we need to be more

851
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,520
equitable with our with our staff.

852
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,680
Um

853
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,080
and then I also like the idea of rather

854
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,920
than just having what used to be termed

855
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,360
a Christmas bonus, now that we're doing

856
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,960
performance reviews

857
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,920
that we do set aside a percentage or a

858
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,200
certain amount .8% that the mayor

859
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,080
the .8% that the mayor suggested I think

860
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,440
was pretty close. I think that was very

861
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,760
reasonable. And what that does is it

862
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,760
provides incentive for people to do to

863
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,680
step up, to take leadership positions to

864
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,320
go above and beyond

865
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,760
and

866
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,040
I think that's very beneficial to any

867
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,920
organization. That's how most of the

868
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,280
private sector does it as well.

869
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:20,920
>> So, I

870
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,440
>> definitely support that, Brent.

871
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,320
>> these ideas. Uh I think we're making a

872
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,000
lot of progress in in making the process

873
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,800
more standard and and and more

874
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,840
transparent. I really like the way Cedar

875
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,960
Hills does it with I read through their budget meeting

876
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,800
and they talked about fiscal impact and

877
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,280
put in the numbers so it was transparent

878
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,880
to our public. I think that's helpful. I

879
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,600
not not that a lot of our public look at

880
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,880
it, but those who do

881
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,080
um it'll it'll be helpful. It would be

882
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,160
helpful.

883
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,920
>> So, why are you why would you be a

884
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,240
proponent of an across-the-board COLA

885
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,520
when some of our staff members are

886
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,120
really at the top of the market?

887
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,640
>> No, that's that's a good point. I'm I I

888
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,400
think I'm talking in generality in in in the general process. But if you

889
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:04,680
want to

890
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,480
>> What I'm saying like

891
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,880
>> all all merit-based and and at the

892
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:09,920
discretion.

893
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,280
>> Well, and again discretion like I'm not

894
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,400
going to mention anything specific, but

895
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,720
there's some

896
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,360
deficiencies like we're talking $20,000

897
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,320
annual. I mean, there there's some

898
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,440
larger that isn't just a little bit of

899
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,920
an increase to bring them into

900
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,400
competitive

901
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,240
pay to our neighbors like

902
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,320
>> Is that considering time in the position

903
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,080
or is it just a

904
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,320
>> I think

905
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,400
it's comparison of the position and I'm

906
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,040
evaluating it just like we do our

907
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,760
engineer. These are critical roles that

908
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,640
move our city forward.

909
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,880
You know, it's just like an engineer is

910
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:44,560
critical

911
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,280
>> The thing about this is see how it has

912
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,240
time in position in column T is bright

913
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,360
yellow.

914
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,480
So, I think it factors that in which is

915
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:52,400
important.

916
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,880
>> Yeah, I I definitely think it factors

917
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,280
that in.

918
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,320
>> one piece, but also what you're bringing

919
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,920
to the table. Just because you

920
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,800
specifically didn't work for a municipal

921
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,600
government, but you actually did this

922
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,880
exact thing in the private sector.

923
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,159
That's time in position.

924
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:10,879
Like just you know, so I think it it

925
00:34:10,879 --> 00:34:14,600
misses on that and it's missing on again

926
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,480
what how our daily operations are run.

927
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,679
Basically keeping the wheels on the bus.

928
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:21,159
>> And I And fortunately we're a small

929
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:23,159
enough organization with 16 full-time

930
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:24,879
employees. This that wouldn't be really

931
00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:27,080
feasible in an Orem.

932
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,800
But with I don't know, you can maybe

933
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,000
give your input Shanon how feasible it

934
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,720
is to

935
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:38,000
look at individual positions and their experience both inside their their

936
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,909
current position Alpine and prior.

937
00:34:41,919 --> 00:34:43,639
I mean we I know the mayor has done

938
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:47,000
comparisons for proposals for increases

939
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,869
for our city administrator.

940
00:34:51,879 --> 00:34:53,280
But there's more than just the time in

941
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,679
the position. He has more time in the

942
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:56,560
city and has that background and the

943
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,360
experience of public works director.

944
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,560
Whereas we've been told that Chandler

945
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,040
only does the city manager, but he's

946
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,800
also the planner and

947
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,400
>> Well, the city's built out. You know

948
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:05,880
that, right?

949
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,440
>> position called EM, which is that

950
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,840
engineer manager?

951
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:09,960
>> So they don't

952
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,680
>> city engineering manager? I don't know.

953
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,240
>> So Cedar Hills isn't built out. That's

954
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:14,760
one of the things that, you know,

955
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:15,320
>> Fine. Yeah.

956
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,080
>> I um really I'm jealous of with Mayor

957
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,360
Anderson. She's like, yeah, our city's

958
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,040
built out. We don't have to worry about

959
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,560
new developments. Um they do have a

960
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,520
couple of commercial pads, but that's

961
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,760
few and far between. They don't have um

962
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,840
the commercial development or or the

963
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,520
rate of commercial development and the

964
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,680
especially lately

965
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:36,120
>> I guess

966
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,000
>> and the housing development so

967
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,280
>> I guess this is more of more of a

968
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,320
discussion for the executive pay that

969
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,120
we're going to do at the next meeting.

970
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:42,960
Then we're going to have a closed

971
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,400
session and talk about that. Um but

972
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:45,840
>> Well,

973
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,600
>> as far as it

974
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,520
Maybe maybe today's not the meeting

975
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:50,800
where we're going to finally decide on

976
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,840
what

977
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,040
standard we're going to have going

978
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,160
forward, but I think we're making a good

979
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,960
step forward on that. Trying to decide

980
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:57,880
what

981
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,640
we envision

982
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:00,800
going forward.

983
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,400
>> Well, and I do think when we have a

984
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,520
$134,000

985
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,200
difference in what a smaller city

986
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,440
apparently is paying

987
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,280
that we need to make adjustments that

988
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,240
are bigger than

989
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,160
a couple percentage points.

990
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,800
Can Can we look at this number right

991
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,280
here, this 23,000 that's on the screen?

992
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:21,960
>> Yeah.

993
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,120
>> Cuz our compensation was a different

994
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,400
amount. I think it was 65. I can't

995
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,320
remember. So anyways, to your point

996
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,680
here, when when you're when you do it

997
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,080
equitably, like not everybody gets the

998
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,920
same percentage increase. So, that's

999
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,320
what the point of this whole this page

1000
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,200
is, the 2026 implementation.

1001
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,600
So, what I was thinking, um

1002
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,200
I think our budget with a 5% increase

1003
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,640
had like a $300,000. But, that's because

1004
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,280
we haven't yet talked about benefits. Um

1005
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,120
I I didn't want to overlook the impact

1006
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:02,360
of benefits, which are like 30 to 40% of the total compensation.

1007
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,920
And so, um

1008
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,320
if we took that number and we said,

1009
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,760
"Okay, we're going to hire someone

1010
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,840
that's like off the top. They're not

1011
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,320
going to get a raise, right?" So, that

1012
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,000
that's a that but that is an increase to

1013
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,040
our budget. And then we said, "Okay, now

1014
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,200
take what's left and like you guys are

1015
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,760
talking about, you know, make it

1016
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,080
equitable among the employees." Okay,

1017
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,680
now we've done that. Maybe it's only

1018
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,240
this 23,000. Maybe that's all we need. I

1019
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:29,240
mean, that's maybe I'm guessing. Um I'm

1020
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:30,960
but it could be a good number. And then,

1021
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,880
what's left, let's give, you know,

1022
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,040
spread that across everybody and do it.

1023
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,600
Take what money is left. You know what

1024
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,240
I'm saying? So, it's more

1025
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,920
it's a step-by-step process to get the

1026
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,240
final, you know, I think it was 300,000

1027
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:47,800
increase overall for all compensation.

1028
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,560
So, one of the things that in the

1029
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,160
spreadsheet that um

1030
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,680
uh that Shane brought over or sent us

1031
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,960
and it was talked about the benefits

1032
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,520
increase. One, the benefits was 12

1033
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,520
Was it 12.7%?

1034
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,360
I have it. And another one was and the

1035
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,560
um dental was less. But, that increase

1036
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:11,360
um

1037
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,920
is included in the full in that 300,000.

1038
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,960
So, we I was I had I just wanted to

1039
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,520
share this especially for the public and

1040
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,560
employees that are there that because I

1041
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,680
worked so long in the private sector and

1042
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,240
I've done a ton of payroll in my life,

1043
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:29,480
um I'm very familiar with how much

1044
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,280
employees are taken out of their wage to

1045
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,000
contribute to their mental their medical

1046
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,040
and dental. And it's roughly 12% but it

1047
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,040
can be more, it can be less, but that's

1048
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,480
a good number

1049
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,120
or a good average. So, it was

1050
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,280
interesting in the wage and the benefits

1051
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,480
study that was done by our staff that

1052
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,240
showed other cities they they they pay

1053
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:53,240
far more than

1054
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:56,520
they pay like 90, 95, or 100% of the

1055
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,160
benefits for medical and dental and

1056
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,800
other and other factors that were

1057
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,600
considered, but when you look at the

1058
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,880
cost of medical it's by far the biggest

1059
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,280
cost of all the benefits we provide. So,

1060
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,200
I thought that I had this impression

1061
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,000
that maybe Alpine was um

1062
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,400
they were more generous than other

1063
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,120
municipalities when in reality they're

1064
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,120
just they're like just like the wage

1065
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,880
study where they're more in the median

1066
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,840
of what's happening in the pri in the um

1067
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,000
compared to other municipalities. So, I

1068
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,640
just wanted to share that cuz I have

1069
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,400
said that before and I know our public

1070
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,680
peop public safety aren't here. We're

1071
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,200
having the same discussion with public

1072
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,160
safety and I did have an but maybe an

1073
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,360
incorrect impression that um maybe we

1074
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,640
were an outlier, but really Alpine and

1075
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,920
Lone Peak Safety are not outliers

1076
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,960
by paying all of the medical and dental.

1077
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,560
That's that's

1078
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,000
more typical than I realized. I did just

1079
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,640
want to talk about benefits for a second

1080
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:55,240
if we

1081
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:56,800
>> to follow up on that Chrissy. Just to

1082
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,320
follow up on that Chrissy,

1083
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,680
um you can't be in the median if you're

1084
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,640
at 100% that's impossible. So, you're at

1085
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,080
the you're at the very far end, you're

1086
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,120
at the top end of the scale. We're

1087
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,520
close, I mean

1088
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:06,680
it's

1089
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:07,520
I don't know what the average is.

1090
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,040
>> No, no, well, I'm saying if you're at 20

1091
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,160
if the average is 20% and we're at 100

1092
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,000
you're we're way we're an outlier, but

1093
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,120
the median of municipalities is not 80%.

1094
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,800
>> that. Oh, [snorts] absolutely. And just

1095
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,240
as an example, just as an example, the

1096
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,000
state um state employees pay 8% of their

1097
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,240
health insurance

1098
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:25,400
premiums. So

1099
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,440
>> Yeah, which is still like way less than

1100
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,480
20%.

1101
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,960
>> Right. And in the in the federal

1102
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,160
government, I paid a quarter, so about

1103
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,280
25%, much more.

1104
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,640
So yeah, it's

1105
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,680
That's why comparing apples to apples is

1106
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,560
good. It's good to look at these things,

1107
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,440
to look where we are, so we can make

1108
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,400
informed decisions. I really appreciate

1109
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,680
both Lone Peak Public Safety District,

1110
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,960
uh Aaron Wells and her her crew that

1111
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,280
help that administer that, and for

1112
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,800
Carolyn and Shane to make We just wanted

1113
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:53,680
to know.

1114
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,400
And I think we're we're all

1115
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:55,800
>> It

1116
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:56,080
>> Right.

1117
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:57,600
>> Now we Now that we have a pretty good

1118
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,480
idea

1119
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,520
>> But the relevancy of the benefits of

1120
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,160
health care is that it's outpacing

1121
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,640
inflation. And so the sustainability

1122
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,760
piece as we look at, do we want to

1123
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,760
continue to pay at 100% whether another

1124
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,120
city does it or another city doesn't, we

1125
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,560
have a really

1126
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,120
low general fund, and so if we're

1127
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,240
considering sustainability,

1128
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:18,240
um

1129
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:20,960
and we we continue with raises and we

1130
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,120
continue paying 100% for our city,

1131
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,720
that's not sustainable without

1132
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:29,080
significant tax increases because I

1133
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,280
think there's

1134
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,480
been um

1135
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,720
a lot of information given that we don't

1136
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:36,280
want to really focus on bringing revenue

1137
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,320
in through sales tax. And so if we're

1138
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,480
not going to bring revenue in through

1139
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,840
sales tax, and we're going to continue

1140
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,040
to offer this level to our employees,

1141
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,040
um that's just the natural course of how

1142
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,480
we would fund it.

1143
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:49,960
>> And again,

1144
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,160
>> I think that's a really good point,

1145
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,000
Jessica, because um

1146
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,080
that's how That was always the debate.

1147
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,400
And so we'd come up with a certain

1148
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,360
percentage of dollars um when I was on

1149
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:01,360
the school district, and we'd say,

1150
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,560
"Okay,

1151
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,080
if you want us to continue to pay like,

1152
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,840
let's say we have just for the

1153
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,160
conversation, a million dollars that we

1154
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,200
could

1155
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:09,960
uh

1156
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,640
deal with, or you know, use it for all

1157
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,560
compensation. If the medical went up and

1158
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,840
took the big chunk of like 300,000 of

1159
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,680
it, now we have less to spend on raises.

1160
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,600
Because that was always a factor in the

1161
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,800
discussion is if the medical goes up a

1162
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,000
lot, that means we have to give less

1163
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,040
raises. Well, that happened over a

1164
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,080
decade or so till the salaries were so

1165
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,040
low that like it was hard to compete

1166
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,080
with other districts because the

1167
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,600
districts had decided, "Oh, we're going

1168
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,880
to have employees pitch in on medical."

1169
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,920
So, anyways, it would I I think we could

1170
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,280
have an approach where if we if we're

1171
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,160
going to say, "Let's do a 5%

1172
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,280
compensation across the board, if

1173
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,760
medical takes up the first 100,000, now

1174
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,040
we only have 200,000 left." Do you know

1175
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,840
what I'm saying? Like, you're right. I

1176
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,640
agree with you, Jessica. It It is

1177
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,680
increasing faster than inflation. It's

1178
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,800
been happening for a long time.

1179
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,640
It may be that our employees prefer that

1180
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,680
and they'll take less uh less raises. I

1181
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,600
don't know, but I do think it needs to

1182
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,360
be part of the conversation. And right

1183
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,440
now, we don't really factor that in like

1184
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,120
oh in the in the whole comp in the whole

1185
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,200
calculation.

1186
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:17,560
>> And we are

1187
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:18,800
>> I mean, we do in the spreadsheet, but

1188
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:19,840
not in the discussion.

1189
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:20,840
>> Well, and we are still kind of the

1190
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,600
outlier for the Lompoc Public Safety

1191
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,400
District of the 10

1192
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,320
city {slash} departments they surveyed,

1193
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,800
only two provided 100% health and

1194
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:30,920
dental.

1195
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,000
In the one that Carolyn worked on, I

1196
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,920
can't remember the exact number

1197
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,440
but it was roughly

1198
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,840
20 to 25% cover 100%. What was

1199
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,560
informative was that those who don't do

1200
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,600
100% were roughly between 90 and 95%.

1201
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,400
Um but that does add up and it should be

1202
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,040
I think it should be we think it should

1203
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:51,960
be

1204
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,480
considered as we compare

1205
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:56,720
these different municipalities. When

1206
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:58,760
Carla as a piece of the puzzle when the

1207
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,960
mayor gets these nine surveys

1208
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,160
and responses to what those cities are

1209
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,800
doing. And while Cedar Hills may have

1210
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,160
just fallen below the 10,000

1211
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,160
um

1212
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:12,920
population,

1213
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,240
their city is so comparable to ours

1214
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:18,280
in in so many ways. And they're And

1215
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:19,280
they're so

1216
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:20,400
close.

1217
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,120
Um they do provide 100% and as Chrissy

1218
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,520
or as Jessica noted, um they're

1219
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:28,720
non-

1220
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,640
supervisory positions are paid much

1221
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,240
higher than ours are.

1222
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:34,760
Um

1223
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,320
So, I think that is I think that is

1224
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,120
worth looking at. We're looking at at

1225
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:38,800
their

1226
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,360
>> So, do you guys also want staff to look

1227
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,640
at um there is a discrepancy in the

1228
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,960
total number of vacation hours accrued

1229
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:47,480
and then

1230
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:47,920
>> Yes.

1231
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,080
>> looking at the

1232
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,400
>> I think we can monetize all those

1233
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:51,000
things.

1234
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,400
>> And so, or do we want to consider um

1235
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,360
you know, putting them at average on

1236
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,920
vacation accrual and the number of paid

1237
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,120
vacation days or

1238
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,720
>> We also should consider overtime. Is

1239
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:07,840
that reflected in anything?

1240
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,360
>> Um it's

1241
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,240
in the budget, but I mean it's every

1242
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:13,040
city does it the same way though. We

1243
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,120
don't do overtime any differently than

1244
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:15,360
how we do

1245
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,680
>> But is it reflected in total pay? As

1246
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,360
we're making decisions on equity, are we

1247
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,360
seeing what overtime does to these

1248
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:24,800
bottom these numbers?

1249
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,400
>> Um it's in one of the spreadsheets. I

1250
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,080
was just talking to Chrissy about that.

1251
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,560
She had a question about the numbers and

1252
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,040
I said, "Oh, did you look at overtime

1253
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,680
and on call?"

1254
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,040
It's on

1255
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,280
>> It's the one that's um Shane prepares

1256
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,160
every year to do his budget.

1257
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,000
>> and green.

1258
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:41,880
>> It's right here.

1259
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,000
>> Yeah, it is that one.

1260
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:43,680
>> of overtime.

1261
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,000
>> Just a comment on overtime.

1262
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,880
It's not always welcome, but it's it's I

1263
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,960
mean, who wants to go miss their kids'

1264
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:53,600
birthday party because they have to go

1265
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,720
repair a water main break? I mean,

1266
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:01,000
it's not on call. They can't leave.

1267
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,320
They're on call. They They can't leave.

1268
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:04,400
So,

1269
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,600
it's not like a a total Oh, they, you

1270
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,560
know, get all this.

1271
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,760
There's another side to it from the

1272
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,240
employee standpoint.

1273
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:14,920
>> And that was something new to me coming

1274
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,720
from um

1275
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:18,680
the private sector. I just thought

1276
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,840
everybody was on salary and that's not

1277
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,320
the case. I believe it's just Shane and

1278
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:24,840
who uh

1279
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,360
Was it the engineer or is he hourly

1280
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,120
also?

1281
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:27,960
>> Yeah, it's

1282
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,400
>> Everybody's hourly except Joe.

1283
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,297
And um in asking that's how it is

1284
00:46:32,297 --> 00:46:33,560
[clears throat] in lot of cities, which

1285
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,240
I didn't understand at first.

1286
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:38,320
It was a learning curve for sure.

1287
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,640
>> That's the way it is here at my new job,

1288
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,440
too. Everybody's Everybody's hourly.

1289
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,640
>> It's just Well, sorry to This is a

1290
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,120
little bit off topic, but it's still

1291
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,640
part of this overall benefits package.

1292
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,360
I just have a question about the

1293
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,600
vacation payout. So, I assume we have

1294
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,680
set vacation times per position and time

1295
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,480
in ser- time in service.

1296
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,520
And you have a limited amount limited

1297
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,040
number of hours you can carry over or

1298
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,840
days you can carry over

1299
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,080
to the next fiscal year or calendar

1300
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:06,880
year.

1301
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,960
Is the vacation payout

1302
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,000
that's listed here, is that for those

1303
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,400
who can't carry over the amount,

1304
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:15,640
but they didn't use it, so they get paid

1305
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:16,080
for that?

1306
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,240
>> No, it's if uh I think it's the first

1307
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:22,160
pay period in November, if you have

1308
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,520
a minimum number of hours of vacation,

1309
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,320
if you choose to, you can cash out 40

1310
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,270
hours.

1311
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,280
» Okay. Is that common?

1312
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,760
>> Uh it's fairly fairly common. I mean,

1313
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,400
it's

1314
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:36,880
>> It is?

1315
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,040
>> it's one way to reduce

1316
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,880
like our like

1317
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,360
If people are on vacation, they're not

1318
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:42,720
here.

1319
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,320
>> Oh, no, absolutely. So, in the federal

1320
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:45,800
government, it's use or lose. If you

1321
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,280
don't use it and you you you you hit

1322
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,240
your 240-hour cap, you lose it. And

1323
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:53,000
there's limited exceptions where you can

1324
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,320
carry it over cuz a a major thing

1325
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:56,680
happened and you couldn't use it in

1326
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,200
November and December. But if that's

1327
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:59,320
standard practice, that's good enough

1328
00:47:59,320 --> 00:47:59,400
for

1329
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,400
>> We're we're 160.

1330
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,000
>> Okay. So that's that's good enough for

1331
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,680
me. I just

1332
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,360
>> I think it's more common that in this

1333
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,480
other in this local I don't know what

1334
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,760
else to call local government than

1335
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:12,520
federal.

1336
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,680
>> Yeah, can I can I just ask um the mayor,

1337
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,280
so you settled on 5% after looking at

1338
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,560
CPI and the survey of the other mayors. So

1339
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,160
of the of the nine responses we got the

1340
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,320
average was 4.55.

1341
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,880
Why did you why did you decide on going

1342
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,720
on the highest end of that at 5%?

1343
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:35,040
>> Um so when I was looking at I think it

1344
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,120
was I was heavily influenced by the

1345
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,280
study. I figured we would need the 5% to

1346
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,120
equalize some of the pay when you know,

1347
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,600
you have the implementation strategy and

1348
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,880
that that was 1.7%

1349
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,000
and then um I went higher. I didn't

1350
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,160
think you guys would go for the full 4.2

1351
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,880
plus the 1.7 cuz that would be on the

1352
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,880
high end of the survey that I took of

1353
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,320
the other mayors and so the compromise

1354
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:05,320
was 5% that you know, equalize and um

1355
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,760
you know, and then give raises to our

1356
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,910
staff that deserve it, you know.

1357
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,480
» Can we get some uh input from

1358
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:15,520
Andrew and Sarah?

1359
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:16,440
>> Sure.

1360
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:17,600
we're just being

1361
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:18,669
>> Thanks. Thanks for your patience.

1362
00:49:18,669 --> 00:49:19,680
>> [laughter]

1363
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,920
>> Um I guess thank you so much for all the

1364
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,640
information. I mean I've I'm learning so

1365
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,240
much. I guess just from a bird's eye

1366
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:27,680
perspective, I like what was outlined

1367
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,080
here in our work session and what was

1368
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,040
made in the motion about you know, we

1369
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,080
talked about compensation philosophy. To

1370
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,480
me that's something that should be

1371
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:35,880
foundational.

1372
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,080
Um so I appreciate Chrissy bringing that

1373
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,840
up because to me um

1374
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,600
we have these processes and procedures

1375
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,000
that should align with some sort of

1376
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,280
philosophy or vision and so um kind of

1377
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,600
walking into this I guess, you know, one

1378
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,360
of the things they brought up is that we

1379
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,080
more market-driven or market-based? And

1380
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,080
I just at some point, I don't know, I

1381
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,040
think it would be great to have the

1382
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,400
conversation as what is our compensation

1383
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:00,760
philosophy.

1384
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,280
And I think that would really help me to

1385
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,120
understand, you know, like how are we

1386
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,600
going to approach any sort of

1387
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,400
compensation changes. And then I do

1388
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,520
understand that um

1389
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,920
you know uh comparisons, market

1390
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,920
comparisons to other cities, and then

1391
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,520
comparisons to other positions are

1392
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,400
great. But I also think, you know, the

1393
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:29,000
internal comparisons, like Jessica had mentioned um looking at some of our

1394
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,080
um

1395
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,400
uh governing authorities.

1396
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,640
Um she sent an email talking about, you

1397
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:37,920
know, like

1398
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,080
how do our what does our Utah State Code

1399
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,800
say? What does our um Alpine City Code

1400
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,480
say? What does our developmental

1401
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,440
municipal and developmental code say in

1402
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,000
our general plan? So, we can use those

1403
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,200
also as like um incorporating those into

1404
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:53,880
our philosophy.

1405
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,920
And so, I for me, I just feel a little

1406
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,760
bit of like a little hazy on

1407
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,360
you know, at

1408
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,800
as as we're moving forward with this,

1409
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,600
you know, like what how do we want to

1410
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,160
lead out? So, those are maybe some

1411
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,960
conversations I'd love to have. And then

1412
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,120
just long-term fiscal impacts, like

1413
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,280
understanding, you know, if if we

1414
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,240
opt for a 5%

1415
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:20,480
long-term and given the history of, you

1416
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,720
know, previous years and what we've

1417
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,560
given as as far as like increases,

1418
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,320
compensation increase creases, what what

1419
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,520
does that look like down the road? Is

1420
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,400
that sustainable? How does that affect,

1421
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,720
you know, us financially in the future?

1422
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:37,560
Um these are just some of the thoughts

1423
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,080
that I've had.

1424
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:40,640
Um

1425
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,480
uh

1426
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,680
Yeah, and I I do like the idea of doing

1427
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,720
some sort of Cola and merit.

1428
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:52,040
Um, I'm not entirely familiar with how

1429
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,400
we do performance reviews. Um, but maybe

1430
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,120
that's something that I just lack some

1431
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,280
education on that I need to get more

1432
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,480
educated on. But I think kind of

1433
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,680
making going back to philosophy and how

1434
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,920
we operate our policies and procedures,

1435
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,000
understanding if there's

1436
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,800
do we have key performance indicators

1437
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,200
for each position? How do we

1438
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,000
I guess just for me policies and

1439
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,640
procedures with regards to compensation

1440
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,720
would be very helpful.

1441
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:23,160
I do like this wild study.

1442
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:24,400
I think it's

1443
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,360
from an outsider coming in, it's a great

1444
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,520
way to kind of

1445
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,720
be educated from the jump. It has lots

1446
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:32,400
of information.

1447
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:33,920
Um,

1448
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,080
and

1449
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,560
yeah, and then I like that um, this was

1450
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:39,840
already I like a lot of the comments

1451
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,280
that were said, but you know, keeping

1452
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,000
um, benefits in the conversation and

1453
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,680
understanding what it means if if

1454
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,200
medical benefits go up 7.7%

1455
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,880
how do we adjust for that?

1456
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,640
And yeah, those are those are my overall

1457
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,560
overarching thoughts.

1458
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,840
Um, I'll let Andrew I'm sure we'll get

1459
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,960
into some more specifics, but just

1460
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,200
bird's eye view, I appreciate what has

1461
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,920
been said and the research that's been

1462
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,800
done thus far and I'm still learning

1463
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,000
along the way, so

1464
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,400
I'll let Andrew have

1465
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,440
>> That was really nice. Uh, yeah, I got

1466
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,790
uh,

1467
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,560
it's been really valuable to

1468
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:21,880
hear from your experience. You all have

1469
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,640
done this a lot, so thank you. Um,

1470
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,480
I really love that our uh,

1471
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,400
the employees of Alpine are here, the

1472
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:30,560
staff

1473
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,120
and that they're also Alpine residents.

1474
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,600
That's a big deal.

1475
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,680
And that means a lot to me.

1476
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,760
And I know that this is about people.

1477
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,560
We're talking money.

1478
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,600
And I also appreciate 30 years of

1479
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,520
experience and new people coming in. But

1480
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:46,720
this is about people and I know how

1481
00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:49,200
expensive and hard things are right now.

1482
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,960
I feel it. Everyone else is feeling it.

1483
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,120
It's a tough time.

1484
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,560
People aren't talking about it much, but

1485
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,000
things are so expensive that even people

1486
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,720
making these salaries have a tough time.

1487
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:00,960
That's not to diminish everything you

1488
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:02,640
guys have said. I agree with it and I

1489
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,320
think you're doing

1490
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,640
an exemplar job for us in your years.

1491
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,080
Um anyways, let me go through Is it okay

1492
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:10,600
if I go through the things I wrote down

1493
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,760
and then see if anything help?

1494
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,400
Uh they are centered around one goal

1495
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:16,440
though.

1496
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:17,800
And that is

1497
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,320
um

1498
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,750
that we uh

1499
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,320
bring together the divide that is

1500
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:28,120
currently between staff and council

1501
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:29,880
and

1502
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,400
meet the needs of the residents in a

1503
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,280
timely manner. That that's it. That's

1504
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,000
like what I'm after.

1505
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:36,280
Um

1506
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,040
previously being a resident and now on

1507
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,480
the council as a resident

1508
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,840
um I don't feel like the city ever had

1509
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,920
my best interest or had my back or that

1510
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,800
I could depend on them or that I could

1511
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,840
trust in the city.

1512
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,800
It was always the thing causing or

1513
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:55,520
bringing a problem.

1514
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:56,920
Which is why I'm here.

1515
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,400
Um if we can reverse that where the

1516
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,640
people feel like the city is their ally

1517
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,440
and their help

1518
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,160
and we uh council and staff

1519
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,840
are united that would be the dream. But

1520
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,920
I dream a lot, so we'll see.

1521
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:15,320
Um so let's see.

1522
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,480
Um so we're talking about a lot of

1523
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:17,880
money.

1524
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,480
I I'm sorry. We're not

1525
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:20,920
uh talking about a lot of money right

1526
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:22,480
now. So this is good. It's not It's not

1527
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:23,800
a lot of money.

1528
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,880
This isn't massive amounts of money to

1529
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,600
give raises to very important people.

1530
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,880
But we do this every year, so it becomes

1531
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,960
a lot of money. So if we do this every

1532
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,200
year for 10 years straight, it does

1533
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,760
become a lot of money.

1534
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,560
Um so that's just a thought.

1535
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,320
Uh, Brent sent out what Lehi and AF are

1536
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:42,960
going through and I read through their

1537
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,640
meetings. I was amazed

1538
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:46,920
at what they are going through. I don't

1539
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,200
know if you read them.

1540
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,400
Lehi had to postpone their meeting. The

1541
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,480
news was covering it big, big brawl.

1542
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,360
Made us look like, uh,

1543
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:55,920
peace and

1544
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,080
very peaceful here. So, I we're not the

1545
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,200
only ones going through this.

1546
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:00,840
Um,

1547
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,600
so yeah, Brent and Jessica, Chrissy,

1548
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,240
very valuable in your experience. Also,

1549
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:06,560
I'm noticing there's some residents here

1550
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,000
with 17, 14, 11, and 13 years

1551
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,440
experience.

1552
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:11,600
I don't know how I don't know who those

1553
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,200
people are. Who has 17 years here

1554
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,760
as a parks technician?

1555
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:18,720
Who is that?

1556
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:20,520
>> He He doesn't live in Alpine, but

1557
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,360
>> But, but, doesn't he an employee here?

1558
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:22,880
>> Yeah.

1559
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:24,720
>> Well, still.

1560
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:26,160
Yeah. But, even if he's not in Alpine

1561
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:27,440
>> for all the council to be able to know

1562
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,440
all the employees. It'd be awesome.

1563
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:33,680
>> Well, yeah. So, so, um, 17 17 years is

1564
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,440
very commendable. And I want to thank

1565
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,840
whoever that is. And 14 years is very

1566
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,640
commendable. 13 years is very

1567
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,120
commendable. 11 years, 10 years is very

1568
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,920
commendable. Um, and I did not know that

1569
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,080
and that really is opening my eyes. Um,

1570
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,160
okay. So, um,

1571
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:52,520
uh,

1572
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,840
one good thing to just consider for the

1573
00:56:54,840 --> 00:57:00,520
staff is that all of us combined, the mayor and the city council make less

1574
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,240
than the lowest employee. So, just

1575
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:03,560
remember that. We're not trying to be

1576
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,920
mean. We combined make less than the

1577
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,560
lowest employee. And this has has turned

1578
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,480
into like a full-time job, even though

1579
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,960
we make less. All of us combined as the

1580
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,720
lowest paid employee. So, we're we're

1581
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,200
not trying to cause problems. We're not

1582
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,680
here to, uh, take away money or be mean.

1583
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,000
Um, we're here for Alpine and service

1584
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,840
and, um, we don't really I don't get

1585
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,200
much or anything out of this, but I get

1586
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,680
a lot of negatives out of this.

1587
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,240
Socially, financially, and uh

1588
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,080
stress and sleep wise.

1589
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,120
Um so so we're that just so know, we're

1590
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:41,440
not your enemy.

1591
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,000
We're on your team and on your team uh

1592
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,920
and on Alpine's team. Okay. I don't

1593
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:47,360
understand why we compare against other

1594
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:48,920
cities. We're not like other cities, but

1595
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,320
anyways. Um so who does the staff work

1596
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:52,440
for?

1597
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:53,960
Um these are just These are just

1598
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,400
thoughts I had that the staff and the

1599
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,400
council, this is our favorite my

1600
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:58,840
favorite image.

1601
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,560
We all work for

1602
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,000
the the resident on the top. So that's that's who we're all at the end

1603
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,440
of the day working for.

1604
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:06,760
Um

1605
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,280
Does the staff like the council?

1606
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,120
I think we could do better

1607
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,160
at

1608
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,000
bridging that. Does the staff like the

1609
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,750
residents of Alpine?

1610
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:18,840
Some

1611
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:20,040
times.

1612
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,520
Uh so I would we need to connect that

1613
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,280
and overlap that. Anyways, here are my

1614
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,200
questions and then

1615
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,360
a couple proposals I've got.

1616
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:29,920
My questions is can this happen at any

1617
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,760
time? Can we

1618
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,720
give this raise in 6 months or 2 months

1619
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,640
or does it have to happen now?

1620
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:36,840
The The reason I have that question is

1621
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,560
cuz it will determine if we can base it

1622
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:39,760
on anything.

1623
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,480
Uh do Can Can it happen in 2 months? Can the raise start or does it have to

1624
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,200
happen right now with the budget?

1625
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:46,920
>> Well,

1626
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,680
usually I mean you city council can

1627
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,480
technically decide to do whatever, but

1628
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,200
every other city pretty much is starting

1629
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,080
raises with the fiscal year. If you

1630
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,200
think about it with you know, with any

1631
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,600
company that you worked at, depending on

1632
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:01,720
which

1633
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:03,800
um budget cycle they go on, everybody

1634
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,520
knows that they're getting raises at

1635
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:10,150
that time. Whether it's it is.

1636
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,040
So to prolong it to me, there's a lot of

1637
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,400
um I think unintended consequences.

1638
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,600
>> I agree. Uh you'll see why I asked that.

1639
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:18,960
It's because

1640
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,640
if if there was Yeah, you'll see. Um but

1641
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,280
having understood fully why it's

1642
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,640
better for a company or a city to do it

1643
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,560
at a designated time. So, I just want to

1644
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:29,840
make sure I understand everything that's

1645
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,760
on the table.

1646
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,960
It's Shannon, Cadence raise. Sorry to

1647
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,480
point you out. Shannon's Cadence raise.

1648
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,840
Um the entire city staffs yearly raise,

1649
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,080
a new hire, and then we determine how

1650
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:43,560
much. Is that everything that's that

1651
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:44,800
we're deciding right now? Or is there

1652
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:45,960
anything else that I'm missing?

1653
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:47,320
>> It was all listed just the way the

1654
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,000
motion read from the last council

1655
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:49,200
meeting.

1656
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,640
>> just mean like am I missing anything

1657
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:51,480
else?

1658
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,640
>> Well, I think the new hire in that let's

1659
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,680
discuss the new hire and do do we need

1660
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,360
another full-time person or would we

1661
00:59:58,360 --> 00:59:59,680
like to see

1662
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,840
um you know, that broken up into

1663
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:03,520
different responsibilities.

1664
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,360
>> Yeah. So, so okay. Good. Good. How it's

1665
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:06,760
done, not necessarily that it's done.

1666
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:07,680
Okay.

1667
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:08,200
Um

1668
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:09,800
>> So, are we just to follow up on that?

1669
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,440
Are we deciding the executive pay raises

1670
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:13,160
today?

1671
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,040
>> No, you can't really decide on anything

1672
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,560
today. It's a work session. So, it's

1673
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:18,080
more of an exploratory

1674
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:19,480
>> But the votes are next

1675
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:20,400
at the next meeting.

1676
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,920
>> Correct. Can we just take one of one of

1677
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,200
these things in the work session

1678
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,080
description at a time and discuss one at

1679
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:29,600
a time? I mean

1680
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,880
>> I'm almost done. I'm almost done.

1681
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:33,440
>> Can I just follow up on

1682
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:33,800
>> Yeah.

1683
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,480
>> If you can finish your but I want to

1684
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:36,000
follow up on that.

1685
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,400
>> Oh, I was just going to say to me that

1686
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:38,880
would just be

1687
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:39,080
>> Yeah.

1688
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:39,960
>> good way to

1689
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:41,120
>> Yeah. And I'm almost done, so

1690
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:42,040
>> That's my thought.

1691
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:43,800
>> I'm almost done. Uh some of this will be

1692
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,280
helpful, some of it you probably won't

1693
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,720
care about. So, um the resident brought

1694
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:48,840
up that we weren't showing health care

1695
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,840
correctly, but I see this here

1696
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,440
and I feel like I have a pretty good

1697
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,000
basis on it. But um when when he spoke.

1698
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,320
Okay. We we talked about what is our

1699
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,680
philosophy for wages?

1700
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,200
I don't know what the specific one, but

1701
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,400
I like the needs of our residents are

1702
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,520
met in a timely manner. So, that's what

1703
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,720
I feel like the philosophy of our wages

1704
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,960
should be. If the needs of our residents

1705
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,000
are met in a timely manner, I think they

1706
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,400
should be paid 100% of what other folks

1707
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:15,840
are getting.

1708
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,800
If that's happening. Um okay. So, market

1709
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,720
based or not obviously, I like market,

1710
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,080
but

1711
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,960
more like 70% merit. So, I'm a 80/20

1712
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:31,840
guy. Market, about 20%. I like merit 80

1713
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,600
to 70%. I feel like it only will make

1714
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:36,640
everyone's life better, um and they'll

1715
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:38,920
be able to earn more if we base it off

1716
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,480
of merit. Um so, anyways, I uh So,

1717
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:43,600
anyways, the likes are I like the

1718
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:45,480
people. I like the um

1719
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,200
the the help when the staff helps, like

1720
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,720
when they've helped with fire

1721
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,240
mitigation, they've helped with um

1722
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,000
uh cleanup days and things. Um I like

1723
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,360
that they're all from Alpine. Um

1724
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,400
I like boosting the non-supervisor

1725
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,120
wages, like Jessica has said, I I like

1726
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,760
her idea of boosting the non-supervisor

1727
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,480
folks' wages, um because I believe they

1728
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,040
are here almost as many hours as anyone

1729
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:10,280
else, and they work just as hard as

1730
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,560
anyone else. Um

1731
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,960
uh And so, so because it's not that much

1732
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:16,000
different, and I'm seeing that

1733
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,480
discrepancy there, I like boosting them,

1734
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,360
and I have, in my experience with the

1735
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,240
non-supervisor roles,

1736
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:23,880
have uh

1737
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,360
very little if anything to complain

1738
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:26,760
about um

1739
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,400
or um

1740
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,280
uh any problems. So, I think it has been

1741
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:32,680
I think they have done well.

1742
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:33,480
Um

1743
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,200
I love Brent's research. My heavens, has

1744
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:37,840
that not been valuable. Wow. The

1745
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,960
dislikes, I do not like comparing

1746
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,280
against other cities with the threat

1747
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:43,760
that if we don't do what other cities

1748
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,000
are doing, folks will leave. I just

1749
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,440
don't see a basis for that. Alpine's too

1750
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,080
valuable um and it's too unique uh to

1751
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,440
fully compare uh what their rates are

1752
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:55,840
getting. I know we have a too big of a

1753
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,280
volunteer base and too big of a line of

1754
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,480
people that would love to work here,

1755
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,160
live here, and be a part of this. So,

1756
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,360
anyways, I don't like having staff

1757
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,480
determine who gets raises.

1758
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,800
Meaning, if we give a blanket thing to

1759
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:10,600
staff, and they determine in the staff

1760
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,640
who gets raises, that means the staff

1761
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,600
will be working for the staff, and not

1762
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,320
for the residents. I like what I'm going

1763
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:20,040
to get to what I would propose as what

1764
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,000
merit is defined by. Um

1765
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:24,320
and with the goal of bridging the

1766
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:26,000
connection between the residents and the

1767
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,640
city. That That I think if we could do

1768
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,200
that we would

1769
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:31,120
>> So, let me just

1770
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,760
clarify. My understanding is that city

1771
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,600
council has purview over the executive

1772
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,360
staff's salary increases.

1773
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,320
But as far as rest of the staff, it's

1774
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,440
all under Shane.

1775
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,040
>> Right. So, so I I don't like that. Not

1776
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,600
because I don't like Shane, but because

1777
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,480
then the staff will work for Shane. And

1778
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,360
I know they work for Shane. But

1779
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,160
I I would love them to be um rewarded

1780
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,800
for working for for for solving resident

1781
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:59,040
issues.

1782
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:00,400
So, part of that could be worked into

1783
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,280
the that part of that could be worked I

1784
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,160
haven't seen So, I have ideas

1785
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:05,720
>> But we you didn't have a performance

1786
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,840
standards at all until this year.

1787
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:08,760
>> getting up to them right now.

1788
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,440
>> So, what I'm just saying is maybe

1789
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:11,880
>> I don't think that's fair because

1790
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:15,200
reviews have happened. I've seen them.

1791
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:15,600
>> No.

1792
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,320
>> There was one year when we were

1793
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,480
extremely short-staffed. It could have

1794
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,280
spilled into 18 months when we didn't.

1795
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,600
But before that, I know on council, I've

1796
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,440
seen some. I've met with Shane and seen

1797
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,240
some in the past. I know we've done two

1798
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,400
in the last year. We did one in

1799
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,480
December. He just

1800
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,200
Oh, great. So, it's not a new thing and

1801
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,760
I know we've said this multiple times.

1802
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:42,760
It's just yes, there was a period when

1803
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,080
you first came on when we were extremely

1804
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,200
short-staffed and we did not get those

1805
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:47,760
done.

1806
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:49,040
>> All right. Well, regardless of when they

1807
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,040
were done or but let's I'm glad we're

1808
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:52,280
doing them. I'm glad they were done

1809
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,000
before cuz that's the standard practice.

1810
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:55,520
>> And maybe they have been done, but I

1811
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,240
would say the loop hasn't been closed

1812
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,520
because we haven't get been given

1813
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,600
the evaluation back. So, maybe people

1814
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,160
are filling them out and it's going

1815
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:04,520
somewhere.

1816
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,040
But you know, that also speaks to you

1817
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,040
know, maybe we need to invest in an HR

1818
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,080
department and we need something someone

1819
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,320
actually closing the loop on

1820
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,400
these reviews. But that's again a

1821
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:19,240
staffing thing and and to your point, um

1822
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,240
the mayor said that that the city

1823
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,520
doesn't have or the council can't go in

1824
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:26,880
beyond administrator

1825
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,280
to make those um determinations of pay.

1826
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:33,440
Could we just change the code then?

1827
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,200
>> Well, either way, however you would want

1828
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,080
to do it. I just feel like you're just

1829
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:38,280
hearing my feelings. I'll want me to

1830
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:39,200
just end. I don't have to

1831
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:40,160
>> The only thing I The only thing I was

1832
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:41,840
just trying to clarify is

1833
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,480
if that's important to the to the city

1834
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,040
to have resident service

1835
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,680
a priority, that can be worked into

1836
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:51,040
>> That's what I'm after.

1837
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:52,000
>> expectations.

1838
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:53,600
>> Exactly. So, now we get to the point of

1839
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:54,080
merit.

1840
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:55,240
>> And then it could be used for the

1841
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:56,840
evaluation by supervisors.

1842
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:57,880
>> Right, because

1843
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,480
I I I I think uh

1844
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:00,400
whether it's And it probably is. I

1845
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,360
assume it is. And I And I'm I imagine

1846
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:03,520
this is

1847
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:04,800
somewhat awkward to be talking about.

1848
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,320
So, sorry and sensitivity there to be

1849
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:08,320
talking about this. There probably

1850
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,320
aren't a lot of jobs in the world where

1851
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,080
your pay is talked about publicly on a

1852
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:13,760
live YouTube

1853
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,760
with people talking about it. So,

1854
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:18,680
I'm sorry about the experience and I

1855
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:20,280
hope we get to a great thing you're

1856
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,200
happy about, a win-win-win.

1857
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:23,560
Um anyways,

1858
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,720
so the merit This is This is I I I

1859
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:27,360
really thought it through.

1860
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:29,560
Um so anyways,

1861
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,400
like what I'm after is meeting

1862
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,280
the residents' asks and needs, not what

1863
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,000
we think is best, what what they think

1864
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,440
is best. So, I would think our residents

1865
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,040
are willing to pay our staff

1866
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:41,600
uh

1867
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,000
raises and very good wages

1868
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,080
if they feel like they're getting great

1869
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:47,880
services, okay? So, this is what I had

1870
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:49,680
an idea for merit

1871
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,440
besides reviews. Re- Reviews are fine

1872
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:52,320
and maybe you just want to stick with

1873
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:53,840
those, but these are what I had as an

1874
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,160
idea of a way that could be not

1875
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,360
subjective as to say a boss likes

1876
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,880
someone more or not or but based on

1877
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,360
these couple ideas, which you can keep

1878
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:05,680
any or none of them.

1879
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:07,000
So,

1880
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,560
a list of resident asks submitted that

1881
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:11,440
have been carried out through our

1882
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,440
process. So, on our website, we have

1883
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,440
something where residents can go in and

1884
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:21,840
put a put put an ask down or put a worry down or put a um

1885
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:23,080
a request

1886
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,800
on our website. And so, a resident

1887
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,440
Yeah. It's cool. Um and so, uh you go on

1888
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,400
and you put a request and they get it.

1889
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,080
If if if they show us look, we had 55

1890
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,720
resident requests and we hit 80% of

1891
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,360
them. I think that is a stellar job. I

1892
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:42,880
think that is a great job. And I think

1893
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:44,280
the residents will be happier and I

1894
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,000
think that will make a full case of

1895
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,680
merit for them to deserve

1896
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:50,280
um

1897
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,520
uh raises and job well done and their

1898
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:54,800
lives to be improved because they've

1899
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,360
improved the lives of so many residents.

1900
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:58,720
So, that's that's number one. It's on

1901
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,960
our website. Um

1902
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,200
and um I've done it. Um

1903
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,640
and it hasn't worked, but I think it

1904
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,800
can. I thought I I think it can work. Um

1905
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:09,720
uh

1906
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:11,240
I was just on Hillside Circle. I won't

1907
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:12,360
bring up specific It doesn't matter. It

1908
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:14,200
doesn't matter. I think it can work and

1909
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,560
I think that is a just an easy way to

1910
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,560
say, "Look, the staff carried out the

1911
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:20,640
worries and the concerns and the

1912
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,200
requests of this neighborhood, the

1913
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:23,520
worries and the concerns of this

1914
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,200
neighborhood. They made their lives

1915
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,480
better, the staff's life deserves to be

1916
01:08:27,480 --> 01:08:31,560
better. I'm on board." Um okay. Um

1917
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:33,160
th- this doesn't have to be part of it,

1918
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,440
but I think a hospitality training where

1919
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:37,759
the staff and the council are together

1920
01:08:37,759 --> 01:08:38,720
would be

1921
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,560
very helpful. Um and I've reached out to

1922
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,080
several people who can do it. I reached

1923
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,000
out to the guy who runs Disney World and

1924
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,240
he's going to get back to me. Um which

1925
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,160
sounds bizarre, but he runs a city full

1926
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:52,759
of hotels and rooms and guests and water

1927
01:08:52,759 --> 01:08:54,480
and anytime something breaks or someone

1928
01:08:54,480 --> 01:08:56,279
does something wrong, he's on the hook.

1929
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:59,960
And he helps s- staff and

1930
01:08:59,960 --> 01:09:01,240
um

1931
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,240
board members and everyone come together

1932
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:04,960
and do a successful job as possible.

1933
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:06,759
Anyways, I think if we can do trainings

1934
01:09:06,759 --> 01:09:09,920
together, team building, where staff and

1935
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:10,960
um

1936
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:11,680
uh uh

1937
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,440
council can

1938
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:15,799
uh fix the divide, I think we will be in

1939
01:09:15,799 --> 01:09:17,400
a better place to help the residents.

1940
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,000
Okay, so anyways, those two things are

1941
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,600
merit. If we've done trainings and

1942
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:21,799
worked together cuz often we're on a

1943
01:09:21,799 --> 01:09:23,120
different page.

1944
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,440
Um the last uh uh

1945
01:09:25,440 --> 01:09:27,120
two things of what I would consider

1946
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:28,400
merit. First is the list from the

1947
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:31,120
residents um that submit hospitality

1948
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:32,640
trainings.

1949
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,759
Um and and then a survey

1950
01:09:35,759 --> 01:09:37,640
that we send out and that just basically

1951
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:39,240
says, "Based on your interaction with

1952
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:40,680
city staff, do you feel like they

1953
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,000
deserve a 5% raise in compensation this

1954
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:44,240
year?"

1955
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:45,720
That's it.

1956
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:47,040
I I I think you'll get it if we meet

1957
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:48,080
their needs. I think you'll get it,

1958
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,480
maybe more.

1959
01:09:49,480 --> 01:09:50,799
Um uh

1960
01:09:50,799 --> 01:09:52,400
And then finally,

1961
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:54,320
this came up while you were talking, if

1962
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:56,600
there are opportunities to do in-house

1963
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,360
work that they should be bonus

1964
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:01,040
compensated. So, for example, if there's

1965
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,120
something Landon can do

1966
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,160
that it would cost a lot for someone

1967
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:07,880
else to do, I think that he should be

1968
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,480
compensated. When we build a uh fire

1969
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:13,080
station, you see how much it is.

1970
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:15,480
Well, that's really a lot. We could save

1971
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:19,240
a lot by having in-house work done. Or

1972
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:20,360
one of these

1973
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:21,560
uh fine

1974
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:24,760
uh employees, maybe she has an idea for

1975
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:26,840
fixing the cemetery or she can do it

1976
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:28,960
herself. Well, if she's doing the work

1977
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:31,080
that we'd have to contract, I think we

1978
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,840
could give that money to her or him

1979
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:35,360
versus the contractor and that would

1980
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,600
incentivize them to be proactive and

1981
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,240
they should be rewarded for it. Um those

1982
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:42,080
are my thoughts. So, that was how I

1983
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,240
considered merit. Going above and beyond

1984
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:45,200
should be rewarded. That's the

1985
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,000
opportunities for doing in-house work.

1986
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,680
Hospitality training so we can bridge

1987
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:52,000
our divide between residents, staff, and

1988
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:52,680
um

1989
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:54,080
council.

1990
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,280
Uh basing their um

1991
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,640
raises off of residents submitted asks

1992
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,160
being carried out in a survey that goes

1993
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:03,480
out and says, "Do you feel like your

1994
01:11:03,480 --> 01:11:06,560
city staff this year deserves a 5% raise

1995
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:07,800
in compensation?" And I think they'll

1996
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:09,000
tell us.

1997
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:09,800
Um,

1998
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:11,880
anyways, that's that's I'm good with the

1999
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,360
a benchmark merit definition system. I'm

2000
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,320
good with leveling the non-supervisor

2001
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:18,680
workers up higher this year than the

2002
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:20,920
um, than the higher-ups.

2003
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,920
Um, so so I would be open to everything

2004
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:24,320
that they have said and I'm actually

2005
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,000
taking my cues from them because they

2006
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:27,240
have done this so many more times than

2007
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:30,040
me, but my idea is this year, take it or

2008
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,000
leave it, uh, 2% raise for higher-ups

2009
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,320
and a 5% for non-supervisory.

2010
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:39,840
And then we hit the system going forward

2011
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,560
where everyone drops to 2% per year with

2012
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,000
a merit of up to 6% based on those

2013
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,840
benchmarks. So they actually have an

2014
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:50,360
ability to get a very high um, increase

2015
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,480
if they hit those benchmarks.

2016
01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:55,640
And they get a base of lower than usual

2017
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,040
which doesn't motivate them or anyone to

2018
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:00,880
kind of, you know, be relaxed or not

2019
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,280
really uh, at ease to a degree. This

2020
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:05,840
still rewards people who have been here

2021
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,320
a long time. So because no matter what

2022
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:09,760
they're getting it year after year after

2023
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,360
year. So we do value 17-year people,

2024
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,800
10-year people, 13-year people, but they

2025
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:20,000
the real growth the real growth of 6%

2026
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,640
raises per year would come by meeting

2027
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:24,320
the needs of the residents, holding

2028
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,400
those trainings, doing bonus

2029
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,320
um, in-house work

2030
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,560
um, and based off of a survey from the

2031
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,560
residents. Um, that's all I had.

2032
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:35,280
>> Can I ask a few Oh, sorry, Shane, you

2033
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:36,840
had something you wanted to say.

2034
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:38,640
If we do decide like on a certain

2035
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:42,040
percentage, is it within our ability to

2036
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,680
and is it appropriate for us to dictate

2037
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:46,720
Is it

2038
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,560
um, employee by employee who should get

2039
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,200
what percentage of that? Is that

2040
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:53,080
>> Well, I would

2041
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,560
We would have to go a little bit more

2042
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,320
detailed in that.

2043
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:02,550
You would well

2044
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:03,200
It's kind of

2045
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:04,920
>> to have to interject that that is not

2046
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,160
what our state law is.

2047
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:07,960
So, no.

2048
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:09,760
>> That's what I was trying to clarify is

2049
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,040
that you really only have Your purview

2050
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,720
is for the executive staff.

2051
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,960
In our city, it's Shane and Kaden.

2052
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:20,360
Everybody else is under Shane's purview.

2053
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,320
>> Right. The Our Our role with everybody

2054
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,960
else is deciding on

2055
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:26,760
the percentage increase.

2056
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:27,560
>> Well, then that would just apply

2057
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:29,600
>> Or how it's Or how it's established.

2058
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,360
>> Well, then that would just apply

2059
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,080
>> Merit I'll just

2060
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:34,760
In this conversation, we have a

2061
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,640
legislative role. I I Googled it, which

2062
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:40,680
is to establish overarching policies

2063
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,280
um and organizational framework, which

2064
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:46,520
that's our role with the city employees.

2065
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,600
With Shane, we do more direct hands-on,

2066
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,160
but that's That's our role.

2067
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:52,360
>> Okay, that's understandable. The

2068
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:53,960
confusion where I might be coming from

2069
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,240
is two things, um but mainly

2070
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,440
we're being told that we're making a

2071
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:02,600
decision on the staff's raise,

2072
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:03,880
which I think was

2073
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,000
4 or 5% and then we're being told that

2074
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:10,680
we're making a decision on the senior um

2075
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,920
uh staff as well.

2076
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:14,800
And we're also being asked about

2077
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:16,600
philosophy. So, that's where I'm trying

2078
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,600
I'm not I'm trying to solve all of that.

2079
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:20,560
So, if I hit a wall that I'm not

2080
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,120
supposed to cross, clearly let me know,

2081
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:24,720
but

2082
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,120
it's it's sounds like it's being asked of us,

2083
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:28,600
so that's why I'm

2084
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,240
um exploring solutions for it.

2085
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:31,960
If that makes sense.

2086
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,200
>> Then Chrissy, how do you remedy the

2087
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,160
discrepancy in

2088
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,720
the upper tier at pretty much the top of

2089
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:41,360
the pay scale but continuing to be

2090
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:44,720
raised, but then the the supportive

2091
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:48,160
staff having such a

2092
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:50,440
Yeah, a gap, I guess, in what is market

2093
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:53,280
value. If we're just leaning into what's

2094
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:55,360
always been done, I would say the reason

2095
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:57,720
we're at this junction is because we

2096
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:01,280
haven't gone in and said, "This is

2097
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,040
getting it to a point where it's not

2098
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,200
equitable anymore." And so, what's the

2099
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,600
remedy if the statute says we can't?

2100
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:10,960
Um then how do we remedy that situation?

2101
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:14,000
And again, I ask, do we need to look at

2102
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:15,720
the code so that we can get in and

2103
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:17,280
remedy?

2104
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:20,080
>> I think um how to remedy that is that we

2105
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:22,360
have this very

2106
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:24,800
quality information, and it did did

2107
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:26,560
point out this thing that, you know,

2108
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,120
you've talked about. And it your um

2109
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:32,160
observation is supporting is supported

2110
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:34,880
by this data, and we just

2111
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,880
that's part of our administrator's role,

2112
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:41,360
and we evaluate his role in, you know,

2113
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,160
fixing that the best way he sees

2114
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,280
possible. Like our the most equitable

2115
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:49,200
way, I should say, not just best, but

2116
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:53,320
like it's really up to him to address if we think it's a problem,

2117
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:54,520
or and maybe he doesn't think it's a

2118
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,920
pro- like we'd have to let But it really

2119
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,080
all of our um

2120
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:02,320
goals happen because our administrator

2121
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:04,600
makes it happen. We as a like I've said

2122
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:06,160
before, we as

2123
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:07,440
individuals have no authority to do

2124
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,600
anything, but as a council,

2125
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,640
we can direct and say we'd like, you

2126
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:13,120
know, to you to look at this further and

2127
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:15,600
come up with your own plan, and it we're

2128
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,160
going to give like 5%, and how you

2129
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:21,040
organize the money, some of it to

2130
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:22,640
benefit, some of it to raises, some of

2131
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:24,520
it to merit, like that's part of his

2132
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,480
evaluation is is he reading the room and

2133
01:16:27,480 --> 01:16:30,160
seeing what we'd like to see, right?

2134
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,080
That's That's how it has to happen is

2135
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,960
we give him like what's important to us,

2136
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,280
but like the what part, but like

2137
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:40,720
they have to do the how.

2138
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:42,320
>> And that goes to our evaluation of

2139
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:43,800
executive staff, where we

2140
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:44,320
>> Right.

2141
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:47,000
>> make a determination of whether they're

2142
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,160
fulfilling the directive of the council.

2143
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:51,720
>> Right.

2144
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:52,960
>> I have a wrap

2145
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,000
>> I have one more just one more thing. I

2146
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:56,480
would caution against setting some

2147
01:16:56,480 --> 01:16:58,680
specific amounts for future years. I

2148
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:00,680
think the better approach for me would

2149
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,920
be coming up with a policy

2150
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:06,560
an objective of how we want to look at

2151
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,320
things, have a an analysis that takes

2152
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:11,360
into into account multiple factors that

2153
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:12,280
we

2154
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:13,760
based on best practices that you know

2155
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:14,920
about and you know about through other

2156
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,520
mayors, come up with what we like, what

2157
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:19,400
we think is appropriate

2158
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,920
and then um get the recommendations from

2159
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:23,720
the staff and the mayor and then make

2160
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:26,040
our decisions on an annual basis. I

2161
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:28,680
wouldn't want to say 2% every year with

2162
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,400
a potential six. That's 8% or maybe you

2163
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:32,280
meant up to six. [clears throat]

2164
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:32,960
>> Uh up to six.

2165
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,040
>> But a 6% raise every year is not

2166
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,080
sustainable, especially as inflation

2167
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:38,600
drops and things like that.

2168
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:39,560
You know, you look at our history of

2169
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,120
raises, it's it's more in line about 3

2170
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:43,600
and 1/2%.

2171
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:44,480
It would be or

2172
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:45,880
>> 3% forever.

2173
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:47,320
>> Right. That was during the no inflation

2174
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:51,200
years of the 2010 to 2019, which was

2175
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:52,840
across the board with the private sector

2176
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:54,720
and the federal government as well. So,

2177
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:56,560
very consistent. All of this All of this

2178
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:57,400
is very consistent. I think

2179
01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:58,720
>> go, so

2180
01:17:58,720 --> 01:17:59,120
>> Okay.

2181
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:00,000
>> Yeah.

2182
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:01,440
If we could wrap it up or give next

2183
01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:03,800
steps or I'll just I'll just log out and

2184
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:05,640
you guys can continue.

2185
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:07,440
>> Could I just follow up with a few

2186
01:18:07,440 --> 01:18:10,200
questions cuz I also need to take off

2187
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,280
soon, but um I like your out-of-the-box

2188
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,200
thinking. Is it One follow-up question

2189
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:18,000
with that, is it

2190
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,320
um acceptable to have council members

2191
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:22,120
weigh in on performance reviews for the

2192
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:23,680
staff?

2193
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,520
That was just a question. Is that So,

2194
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:27,040
okay.

2195
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:28,280
>> You mean you mean for the higher-ups or

2196
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:29,200
just everyone?

2197
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:29,600
>> All of them.

2198
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,080
>> It's only

2199
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:34,280
>> You have input, so when we do a review,

2200
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:36,480
and this is how other cities do it, they

2201
01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:40,040
have staff do it, and it's usually just

2202
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:42,560
the mayor will do a review based on the

2203
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:44,520
staff reviews. That's what most of the

2204
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:45,840
mayors do.

2205
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:49,640
That but this council has wanted an

2206
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:53,200
input in it, and so we did send out um I

2207
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:55,520
sent out and we started it what was it

2208
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,280
December or January? I can't remember.

2209
01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:59,120
But we did start it this year

2210
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:01,520
specifically for Shane cuz Ryan had

2211
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:02,960
left. So it was January cuz Ryan was

2212
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:03,920
gone.

2213
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:05,960
Um he didn't have one. And so that's

2214
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:09,120
what we're doing, but normally it's

2215
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:10,120
um

2216
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,200
the city administrator gets reviewed by

2217
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:14,800
his staff, and then the mayor will go

2218
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:16,120
over

2219
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:20,120
those reviews with Shane or with his

2220
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,160
city with the city administrator and

2221
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:24,080
then go over that and

2222
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:25,240
um

2223
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:27,240
you know, see what you know, what needs

2224
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:28,440
to be worked on, what they're doing

2225
01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:30,400
well, and then, you know, work on it

2226
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:32,760
that way. But you know,

2227
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:33,440
>> Mayor.

2228
01:19:33,440 --> 01:19:35,040
>> even though I've been mayor for a while,

2229
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:37,440
I do rely heavily on other mayors on how

2230
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:39,960
they do things. And so that's what I go

2231
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,200
by and then my own work experience at

2232
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,920
Intel that I had for years and years. So

2233
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,280
that's how I'm basing, you know, how we

2234
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:51,120
do things. And then even like

2235
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:52,600
with, you know, if you think about it,

2236
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,040
public safety, we never get the salaries

2237
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,400
of every single person there. It's just

2238
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:59,160
beginning

2239
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:01,800
for just the, you know, the various

2240
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,400
whether you're and, you know, whether

2241
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:04,800
you're a paramedic or whether you're a

2242
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,400
firefighter and then, you know, captain

2243
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:10,560
and, you know, we never have this

2244
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,240
we've never had a breakdown like this

2245
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:14,480
where it has the individual salaries for

2246
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:16,720
the entire fire department or police

2247
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:17,760
department.

2248
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:19,680
>> I don't know how but Carrie got us all

2249
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:20,240
names.

2250
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:20,760
>> What?

2251
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,040
>> Uh Carrie got us all the salaries of

2252
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:25,040
fire and police every with their name

2253
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:25,160
and all.

2254
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:26,560
>> I know, but what I'm saying is when

2255
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,640
we've worked on their raises, that's not

2256
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,680
what we based it on. I think

2257
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:32,880
>> But that is changing going forward.

2258
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:34,560
We've asked them to not not for

2259
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:36,120
individuals, but we'd like to do a

2260
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:38,440
comparison of the of the steps.

2261
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:42,480
>> For sure. But you know, this is granted

2262
01:20:42,480 --> 01:20:45,120
they have much larger staff than we do.

2263
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:48,160
Um but I do think that

2264
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:51,440
you know, what we're here for is

2265
01:20:51,440 --> 01:20:53,760
to go over this wage studies. It seemed

2266
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:54,880
like

2267
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:56,680
you know, I think Shane sent it out a

2268
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,320
week before City Council meeting.

2269
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,640
Um if you guys had any questions on

2270
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:03,360
that, the process that we went to and

2271
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,000
the data that we collected from it.

2272
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:10,080
And then um if you had any questions on

2273
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:13,040
you know, moving forward. I think the I

2274
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:15,480
really appreciate Carolyn doing and

2275
01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:16,880
going through the extra effort of

2276
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:19,200
getting the information that she wasn't

2277
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,040
able to get directly from the people and

2278
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,320
doing all the research. I think the

2279
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:26,000
compensation was invaluable. Um

2280
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:27,880
you know, to do the discussions around

2281
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:29,240
that.

2282
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:31,200
And I think that we do need to look at

2283
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:32,280
you know, if we're going to look at

2284
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,000
changing their health care, I do you

2285
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,680
know, to make it more in the average

2286
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:39,440
with you know, other cities that we do

2287
01:21:39,440 --> 01:21:41,240
need to look at maybe

2288
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:42,720
increasing

2289
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:45,880
vacation hour accrual and days time off

2290
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,320
cuz Alpine is on the lower end and then

2291
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:49,880
even some of the other benefits were on

2292
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:52,520
the lower end. So I think if you know,

2293
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,400
is that the goal?

2294
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:56,800
I guess the way I always looked at it is

2295
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:59,000
you know, it's a give and take and it's

2296
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:00,120
what

2297
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:02,400
um works for the city.

2298
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:04,400
Um

2299
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:06,440
along with you know, where we are, but

2300
01:22:06,440 --> 01:22:10,640
we have to look at yes, do we pay for

2301
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,560
insurance and is it's full coverage. But

2302
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,360
if you looked at that wage study, we

2303
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:18,200
were consistently below in salaries in

2304
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,320
almost every single

2305
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,800
position except for one. And we do have

2306
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:25,320
an outlier, but that was

2307
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:26,600
we went over a year without that

2308
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:28,120
position.

2309
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:30,040
And that's, you know, chain he actually

2310
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:33,360
went after him. He like count he went

2311
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,160
through all his contacts looking for

2312
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:38,040
somebody. And then, you know, was able

2313
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:39,440
to connect with Jason and we were able

2314
01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:40,680
to bring him.

2315
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,000
And that was just the price that we had

2316
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,440
to pay to bring someone in. I personally

2317
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:47,760
try to recruit city engineers in my

2318
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,000
meetings that I went to with WFRC even

2319
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:53,120
like engineers up in Salt Lake City. You

2320
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:54,520
know, I would meet him and say, "Hey, we

2321
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:57,000
have a position open. Will you apply?"

2322
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,080
And they didn't. I have a friend whose

2323
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:01,960
son is an engineer for a major

2324
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:03,880
engineering firm. Send him the job

2325
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,600
description. He's like, "Yeah, no."

2326
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:08,880
Can't do that. So, it's just you do have

2327
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:10,720
to look at it. It's just it we're kind

2328
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,960
of a unique situation. Um

2329
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:15,760
but I think you kind of have to look at

2330
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:17,600
where do we want to go future. If, you

2331
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,600
know, city council wants to change the

2332
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:21,880
compensation structure, then that's

2333
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:23,960
something that we can look at. And I

2334
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:25,720
think, you know, if you guys want to do

2335
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,560
a formal request, um

2336
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,560
for me, I guess I look at yes, it's

2337
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:33,320
really expensive.

2338
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:36,080
Um I cuz it's the largest thing besides

2339
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:37,840
wages is our

2340
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:40,720
health well and your ass, right?

2341
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:43,600
But that I look at partially as a

2342
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,720
recruitment tool. But I say, you know,

2343
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,240
if you're going to take that away, think

2344
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:49,800
about it carefully on what the

2345
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:51,920
unintended consequences are. I'm all for

2346
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:53,240
equality.

2347
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:56,000
But just look at the whole picture. And,

2348
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,720
you know, we can move along with

2349
01:23:57,720 --> 01:23:59,760
whatever you guys the direction that you

2350
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:01,160
want to go.

2351
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:02,360
But just

2352
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:03,840
I just say please consider what might

2353
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:04,680
happen.

2354
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:06,760
>> Could I just out of curiosity and this

2355
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,200
is maybe more directed to the staff is

2356
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:11,240
what incentivizes people to work here

2357
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:13,480
and what incentivizes them to stay cuz

2358
01:24:13,480 --> 01:24:14,920
looking at these numbers like Andrew

2359
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:16,400
pointed out and what like was pointed

2360
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:18,360
out there's lots of

2361
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:20,080
people that have been here a long time.

2362
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:21,000
Is it more the

2363
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:22,680
>> I was going to say some of this I don't

2364
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:24,480
think is um

2365
01:24:24,480 --> 01:24:26,680
it's a little bit misleading cuz I feel

2366
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:28,280
like our public works superintendents

2367
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:29,720
have been here more than 10 years,

2368
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:31,880
correct? But they've only been

2369
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:33,960
superintendents for 10 years in that

2370
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:36,640
position. But they've been working for

2371
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:40,120
Alpine for more than 25 or is it almost

2372
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:40,480
30?

2373
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:41,720
>> and one's

2374
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:42,600
uh 25.

2375
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:44,120
>> Yeah, so it's

2376
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:45,280
>> have rewards for that time.

2377
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:46,960
>> And the institutional knowledge with

2378
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:49,040
that is I can't even tell you how

2379
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:50,560
valuable it is, but

2380
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:52,160
>> Right, and that's something that we get

2381
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:53,760
helped to be aware of to pay better

2382
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:54,680
rewards.

2383
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:56,480
>> those

2384
01:24:56,480 --> 01:24:58,960
it is the health care benefits. I've had

2385
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,320
several say, "You change that." I cuz

2386
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:03,040
they can go anywhere.

2387
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:03,680
>> All right.

2388
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:05,720
>> Um they don't have to stay in the public

2389
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:08,240
sector cuz they have their benefits.

2390
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:10,080
They've you know, they've stayed they

2391
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:11,520
can get they can collect their

2392
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,160
retirement and they can go on to another

2393
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:15,680
job. But there as you pointed out, there

2394
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,760
aren't very many jobs that have full

2395
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:20,040
um insurance.

2396
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:21,960
>> Mayor, did that come across though uh

2397
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:24,040
not to try to alter the system, but to

2398
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:27,000
try to change the the incentive behind

2399
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:28,600
it? That's the reasoning. When we do

2400
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:30,080
surveys

2401
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:31,480
and say they come to you and you look

2402
01:25:31,480 --> 01:25:32,840
over surveys

2403
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:33,880
it causes

2404
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:37,240
people to want to satisfy you. It causes

2405
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:39,440
them to want to make sure you're happy.

2406
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:41,720
Um because you're going to be the one

2407
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:43,760
cert deciding

2408
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:45,720
on how great they're doing or not, on

2409
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:47,160
how well they're doing. And there's a

2410
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:48,280
lot of

2411
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:50,560
subjective criteria.

2412
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:51,160
>> what?

2413
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:52,880
>> When we do surveys, I'm just saying say

2414
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:54,840
that say we do surveys. The survey

2415
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:56,400
I'm going back to defining merit.

2416
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:56,880
>> Okay.

2417
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,320
>> Say we do surveys and we keep that

2418
01:25:58,320 --> 01:25:59,720
model, which is not bad. I don't think

2419
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:01,080
it's great.

2420
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,880
What it does is it creates

2421
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:05,920
a satisfaction based on your um

2422
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:07,200
approval.

2423
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:08,760
What the whole thing I just tried to say

2424
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:10,560
is I don't know if it came across clear

2425
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,800
is to remove even us or you from that

2426
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:15,480
satisfaction that

2427
01:26:15,480 --> 01:26:17,720
entity trying to be satisfied and put it

2428
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,360
to the resident. And if the resident is

2429
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,600
satisfied, that is the merit based on

2430
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:25,640
them receiving wages. And the only

2431
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,120
non-subjective way I could do that,

2432
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:29,880
because you can't like vote, is based on

2433
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:31,400
their asks through the system they've

2434
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:32,760
set up to

2435
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:35,480
ask for things or bring up concerns and

2436
01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:38,360
those being satisfied. So, the residents

2437
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,320
would be checked off.

2438
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:42,040
>> I feel like

2439
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:43,680
I understand where you're coming from.

2440
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:44,520
>> Okay, that's all I'm trying to get.

2441
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:47,800
>> I totally get it, but there is

2442
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,400
kind of um a hurdle in the way that

2443
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:53,320
you're thinking is that yes, I of course

2444
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:55,480
I want the residents to be happy. But my

2445
01:26:55,480 --> 01:26:57,880
experience has been a lot of times

2446
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:00,000
residents want things that will affect

2447
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:02,520
their neighbors and other people and it

2448
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:04,040
can't, you know, if it's things like

2449
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:06,400
that we can that's within

2450
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:08,280
our current ordinances, that's easy to

2451
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:10,240
do. And I feel like So, hold on. And I

2452
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:11,800
feel like they can do that.

2453
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:12,920
>> Okay.

2454
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:16,320
>> But I feel like um you know, and this is

2455
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:19,520
where I feel like council is pivotal is

2456
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:21,600
if they don't like the way our

2457
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,840
ordinances are currently, that's not up

2458
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,240
to the staff to decide whether they get

2459
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:30,600
an exception or not. Staff is here to

2460
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:32,720
work for the city and do the business of

2461
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,720
the city, right? They they're doing our

2462
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:36,840
roads. They're doing the everyday Hold

2463
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:39,600
on. They're doing everyday business.

2464
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:41,960
>> If so, do I think it's fair that they

2465
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:44,600
get reviewed by somebody who wants to

2466
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:45,920
put up,

2467
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:47,920
you know, a 20-ft

2468
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:49,240
fence because they want to because

2469
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,840
they're sick of their neighbors and our guys are saying, "No, you can't

2470
01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:55,840
do that." Do I think that's fair? No, I

2471
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:56,280
>> I agree.

2472
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,760
>> So, to me there's an inherent skewing

2473
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:00,480
where

2474
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:01,760
>> I agree.

2475
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:03,600
The The examples that are in my mind are

2476
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:05,160
ones that I've done or residents have

2477
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,160
asked me to do. It's like

2478
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:09,200
there's a sign not working coming down

2479
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:11,080
from Hillside Circle.

2480
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,560
It's just, "Can you fix it?" That's it.

2481
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:15,520
It's a slow down sign.

2482
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,760
It's been on the queue for 6 months.

2483
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:19,120
If that were fixed, that whole

2484
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:20,600
neighborhood would be happy. So, it's

2485
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:22,000
not can I put up a wall? That's not what

2486
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:22,600
I'm thinking.

2487
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:23,080
>> Okay.

2488
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:24,040
>> It's

2489
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:25,560
can you fix this fence? Or it's the

2490
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:27,760
water fountain outside that's broken.

2491
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,080
Can you fix the water fountain?

2492
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:30,920
>> Is it broken?

2493
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,400
>> No, it's just runs like it has for

2494
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:34,080
>> No, not that it

2495
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:35,160
>> the 30 years I've

2496
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:36,880
>> been hammered off.

2497
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:38,040
Um and so

2498
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:39,360
>> Well, they keep breaking it off just

2499
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:41,400
like people keep pulling the sprinkler

2500
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:43,400
lines out of the flowers on Main Street.

2501
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:45,800
They keep breaking. Somebody There are

2502
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:47,720
two flower pots hanging on the sign in

2503
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:49,760
the roundabout. Somebody took wire

2504
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:51,560
cutters and cut one, so now it doesn't

2505
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:52,760
hang anymore.

2506
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:54,800
Sitting on the ground.

2507
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:56,360
Three days before that, they pulled the

2508
01:28:56,360 --> 01:28:58,720
water out of the other pot, so it died

2509
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:00,120
like in 2 days and it

2510
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:02,200
>> see how part of a problem it is? We we

2511
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:04,280
would solve it with maybe a camera and a

2512
01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:06,120
water fountain and something like that.

2513
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:08,480
But either way, um it's it's not to do

2514
01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:10,320
what you are saying, which I agree with

2515
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:12,160
you. Why why would we that we we

2516
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:13,200
wouldn't

2517
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:14,480
bring that into the equation say you

2518
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:16,400
didn't put up like some weird fight

2519
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:18,360
thing. It would be more like, "Hey, the

2520
01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:21,840
residents are asking for this reasonable

2521
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,560
thing and look, they took care of it."

2522
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:26,600
They In my mind, when when I'm looking

2523
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,120
this over and it's raise time,

2524
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:30,560
I would be like,

2525
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:35,480
"Check box, check box, check box. They had these asks from our

2526
01:29:35,480 --> 01:29:37,160
>> I think it's like what you're saying is

2527
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:38,840
it would be driven in the questions.

2528
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:41,640
Like the question would be has the staff

2529
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:44,080
taken care of public property or you

2530
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:46,120
request in a timely manner. It wouldn't

2531
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,080
be a specific narrow survey question. It

2532
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,200
would be how do you think our roads are?

2533
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:53,520
Um do you look at public property and is

2534
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:58,960
it well maintained? I mean, it's it's not kind of what you're saying that

2535
01:29:58,960 --> 01:29:59,360
would be.

2536
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:02,560
>> Yeah, I don't think it needs to be each

2537
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:04,320
individual thing and I feel like that's

2538
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:06,000
where your thinking is like, "Okay, I

2539
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:07,600
have this person. Did they do that? Did

2540
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:10,520
they do that? I mean, really

2541
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:11,760
>> It could be broader, like do

2542
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:13,840
>> Staff's job is to run the city.

2543
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:14,600
>> Yes, yes. So

2544
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:18,640
>> And with the budget our size,

2545
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:21,600
a big chunk of it is just getting things

2546
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:24,160
done, just to run it and not to be able

2547
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:25,560
to do those things.

2548
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:28,000
>> I appreciate that they are willing to

2549
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:31,480
take on additional things, you know, and

2550
01:30:31,480 --> 01:30:34,080
follow the direction of council and move

2551
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:35,560
forward that way.

2552
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:39,120
But yeah, no, I don't think that um

2553
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:41,000
residents, I think, you know,

2554
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,240
hopefully you guys are in touch enough.

2555
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:45,040
I know I get enough phone calls, texts,

2556
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:46,400
and emails

2557
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:47,560
um

2558
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:50,000
that when these surveys go out, that you

2559
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,200
guys can respond to it. But yes, I

2560
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:54,280
think, you know, we could probably Well,

2561
01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:55,960
we do a general health survey every

2562
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:57,840
year, right? Through Utah State.

2563
01:30:57,840 --> 01:30:58,920
>> About last couple of years.

2564
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:00,840
>> Um we've done it last couple of years.

2565
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:02,760
They can participate in that and that

2566
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,240
talks about the health of our city. And

2567
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:08,040
in the past, we've done really well on

2568
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:10,160
all accounts, that people are happy

2569
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:14,000
here. Um we've been in the top

2570
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:16,360
I think Cedar Hills was like one of the

2571
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:18,160
top cities before and then we were right

2572
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:20,240
up there with them. So, I guess I don't

2573
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:22,680
see the same

2574
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:23,920
My view is a little bit different than

2575
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:25,000
yours.

2576
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:28,320
Um I do feel like staff is addressing um

2577
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:30,480
resident issues. Um

2578
01:31:30,480 --> 01:31:32,680
>> But I think like to your point, like

2579
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:35,080
they're they have a lot on their plate.

2580
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:37,840
There hasn't been an adoption of ways to

2581
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:40,200
improve efficiencies. As we look at our

2582
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:42,400
raises and what that's going to take,

2583
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:44,400
the only way to get ahead of that is to

2584
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,560
improve efficiencies. And you know, it's

2585
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:49,040
not a once a year survey. Like we really

2586
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:51,920
in this day and age should be actually

2587
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:54,480
um like when a resident says, "Hey, the

2588
01:31:54,480 --> 01:31:56,720
sprinkler head in Creekside is broken."

2589
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:58,640
They should get an immediate thanks for

2590
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:00,480
reporting that. And And when it's

2591
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:02,840
completed, they would say, "Can you rate

2592
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:05,080
the city from one to five with a sad

2593
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:06,720
face and then a happy face?" Like we

2594
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:09,840
really should be adopting

2595
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:12,400
all of these things that take the

2596
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:13,880
workload

2597
01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:16,680
off of our streamline staff to create

2598
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:18,680
efficiencies so that we can, when it

2599
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:20,400
becomes budget time,

2600
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,400
raise our staff with clear information,

2601
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:26,520
and because we've improved efficiencies,

2602
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:28,280
they're not having to work harder.

2603
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:30,600
There's a lot out there that will help

2604
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,920
our staff not have to work so hard in

2605
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:35,160
some of these areas.

2606
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:36,680
>> There's also the element in the goal of

2607
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:38,600
this is not just to increase efficiency,

2608
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:42,560
which is good, but to swap priorities.

2609
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:44,600
The the the things I'm bringing up,

2610
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:46,720
there is an effort to move the

2611
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:49,200
priorities from other things to

2612
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:52,320
resident-driven um asks and needs. So,

2613
01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:54,520
it wouldn't be on top of everything. I

2614
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:55,960
In my mind, that some things would have

2615
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,120
to trade. Like we don't have time to do

2616
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:00,680
everything, so we're modeling and moving

2617
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:02,200
it this way because their raises are

2618
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:04,120
dependent on it towards these things

2619
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:06,240
that might seem trivial, but for

2620
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:08,080
residents, it's it's

2621
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:09,320
really big deal for them.

2622
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:12,040
>> Mhm. I get it, but to me, there's, you

2623
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:14,520
know, not that um

2624
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:18,720
I'm categorizing all of resident um asks

2625
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,440
to be trivial, but there are certain

2626
01:33:22,440 --> 01:33:24,120
things that we do need to get done,

2627
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:25,960
right? You know, we talk about I know

2628
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:27,760
you were upset that we weren't getting

2629
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:31,960
your ordinances back to council in time

2630
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:33,920
when we didn't have anybody. Yet, we

2631
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:35,520
were able to get couple of other things

2632
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:37,440
in, and it's because some things are

2633
01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:39,960
dictated by, you know, or mandated by

2634
01:33:39,960 --> 01:33:41,760
the state that we do things in a timely

2635
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,640
manner. And then there was um I think

2636
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,560
DeAnn took it upon herself to go and do

2637
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:49,000
that. It wasn't Shane had nothing to do

2638
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:51,000
with that. DeAnn did that.

2639
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:52,640
Um

2640
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:54,560
but I do think there's a lot that you

2641
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:57,640
guys don't understand what staff does

2642
01:33:57,640 --> 01:33:59,960
from day to day that needs to be done no

2643
01:33:59,960 --> 01:34:00,840
matter what.

2644
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:01,520
>> That's true.

2645
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:03,280
>> Um because

2646
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:05,440
they're required to, right?

2647
01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:08,520
>> And so to change their priorities, I

2648
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:11,360
think it's more that, you know, they

2649
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:13,800
have their set job and then, you know,

2650
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:16,120
maybe there could be other things, but I

2651
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:18,200
don't know

2652
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:19,000
um

2653
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:20,240
>> Well, let's just take it or leave it.

2654
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:21,000
It's an idea.

2655
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:22,240
>> I mean, if our

2656
01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:24,360
>> staff isn't going out of their way doing

2657
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,720
all these these other things that aren't

2658
01:34:27,720 --> 01:34:29,840
directive from the city council or

2659
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:31,560
anybody, they're just being taken care

2660
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:33,280
of, our city would be a totally

2661
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:34,880
different city.

2662
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,840
I mean, it it almost makes it sound like

2663
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,560
we're not serving the public when

2664
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:42,960
I see people calling people saying,

2665
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:44,640
"Hey, and this isn't part of our

2666
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:46,520
policies. We're not required to do this.

2667
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:48,480
Hey, looks like you have a high water

2668
01:34:48,480 --> 01:34:50,920
bill. You might have a leak." I mean,

2669
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:53,360
I can give you hundreds of examples of

2670
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:54,720
this

2671
01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:55,880
that

2672
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:57,480
you guys have probably never know about

2673
01:34:57,480 --> 01:34:59,120
unless you're the recipient of one of

2674
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:00,240
those calls.

2675
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:02,120
>> But that's an efficiency if we had an

2676
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,320
automated system where they said, "Hey,

2677
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:06,440
you have a high water bill." then staff

2678
01:35:06,440 --> 01:35:08,400
wouldn't have to be doing those touches

2679
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:11,040
again. It's looking at best practices.

2680
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:13,000
>> dependent on the resident signing up for

2681
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:15,640
it, and we beat the bush for ever since

2682
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:17,360
we've had the system for people to do

2683
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:19,960
it, and we're probably not even at 50%.

2684
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:21,520
So, the tools are there, but we can't

2685
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:23,840
force them to use them. We do force them

2686
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:25,080
in a way

2687
01:35:25,080 --> 01:35:26,680
because if they have a leak and they

2688
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:28,080
want an adjustment because of their

2689
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:30,440
leak, we won't give them an adjustment

2690
01:35:30,440 --> 01:35:32,120
until they sign up for Ion Water.

2691
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:34,440
>> Or could we say your water bill will

2692
01:35:34,440 --> 01:35:36,640
have a fee,

2693
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,040
a handling fee of 25 more dollars a

2694
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:40,520
month if you don't sign up for Ion

2695
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:42,760
Water. I mean, there are ways to

2696
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:44,400
incentivize

2697
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,560
people to

2698
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:48,040
Well, in the long run it's going to save

2699
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:49,760
us money, and then our staff won't have

2700
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:51,560
to be calling them, and then our staff

2701
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:53,440
can focus on I would call it

2702
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:54,920
resident-driven initiative and

2703
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:56,240
government-supported.

2704
01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:56,560
>> Yeah.

2705
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:00,160
>> And so again, if if we adopt a payroll

2706
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:02,640
system where payroll is automated, we

2707
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:04,400
have a staff member that twice a month

2708
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,600
now can do more resident-facing things.

2709
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:09,480
Like there are

2710
01:36:09,480 --> 01:36:11,680
we're in a day and age where there's a

2711
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:14,240
lot of assistance out there for our size

2712
01:36:14,240 --> 01:36:16,720
city of 10,000 people.

2713
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:18,480
>> try to make things more efficient. It's

2714
01:36:18,480 --> 01:36:20,600
just a lot of things that you don't see.

2715
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:21,520
>> Right. We don't

2716
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:22,640
>> just just happen.

2717
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:24,720
>> speaking for myself,

2718
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:28,120
I it was eye-opening to see the scope of

2719
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,600
what a city government does in the 2 and

2720
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:32,480
1/2 years I've been on. So, if we just

2721
01:36:32,480 --> 01:36:36,480
rely on I I totally 100% that the the

2722
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:39,000
resident is the customer. That's who

2723
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:41,720
pays our bills. Very little to us, but

2724
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:43,560
as you mentioned, um

2725
01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:44,960
but they're the customers. So, they

2726
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:47,280
should be treated like customers.

2727
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:50,560
Um but the resident, myself included, I

2728
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:52,160
was not aware of how deficient the fire

2729
01:36:52,160 --> 01:36:54,480
station was for our firefighters. I

2730
01:36:54,480 --> 01:36:56,840
wasn't aware of the street overlays and

2731
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:58,000
the constant maintenance you have to do.

2732
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:00,760
I kind of assumed that, but to Shane's

2733
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:02,160
point, there's so much that goes to

2734
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:03,920
running a city.

2735
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:05,400
And to your point, too, I think it's

2736
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:06,720
very important because I've heard

2737
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:08,920
feedback as well that I think we can

2738
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:10,280
have some improvements in our

2739
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,040
customer-facing side. That's why

2740
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:15,080
several months ago, I talked to a couple

2741
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:16,520
other city administrators and asked,

2742
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:19,240
"How do you handle the incoming issues?"

2743
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:21,120
And they told me about the software. And

2744
01:37:21,120 --> 01:37:22,840
we recommended it, and I followed up

2745
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:24,760
again with Shane yesterday, and he said

2746
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:27,240
they they've now made a decision months

2747
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:28,280
later,

2748
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:29,200
and it sounds like it's going to be

2749
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:30,680
implemented. That might help streamline

2750
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:33,120
it where we do have

2751
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:34,680
for example, I

2752
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:37,560
if a resident says, "Hey,

2753
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:40,160
there's a potential code compliance,

2754
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:41,480
some kind of response so they know that

2755
01:37:41,480 --> 01:37:42,960
we at least got the email." Just I don't

2756
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:44,400
want to get too much in the weeds, but I

2757
01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:48,360
think that's one ex- example of we can

2758
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:50,760
look at best practices from other cities

2759
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:53,640
and be more customer

2760
01:37:53,640 --> 01:37:56,600
forward-facing and and more responsive.

2761
01:37:56,600 --> 01:37:58,680
>> Being a small city with a small budget,

2762
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:00,560
we felt like we needed to do our due

2763
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:02,880
diligence. It's an ongoing cost. It will

2764
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:05,080
have this cost every year.

2765
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:06,680
Um and so

2766
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:07,960
>> Well, Shane, what

2767
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:09,160
you're bringing up a good point when

2768
01:38:09,160 --> 01:38:10,280
you're bringing up like, "Look, look, we

2769
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:12,040
do all these things that people ask us

2770
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:15,320
and you don't know." Uh maybe it is just

2771
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:18,120
us knowing. Um so

2772
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:20,920
whatever it is, um

2773
01:38:20,920 --> 01:38:23,520
that right now there isn't like a um

2774
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:25,240
definitive structure other than I know

2775
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:26,360
the website. That's the only one I've

2776
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:32,120
been told is that you go on, you you you bring up a concern or a or an ask,

2777
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:34,200
and then it goes to you guys.

2778
01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:36,520
Um if they just call you or something or

2779
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:37,760
they know you and they say, "Hey, we

2780
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:38,840
need this taken care of," and it gets

2781
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:41,200
taken care of, we appreciate it, but we

2782
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:42,960
don't know. We might not ever hear about

2783
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:44,880
it. But if they go through that system

2784
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:46,520
and then or or if we have whatever

2785
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:49,480
system you or everyone thinks is great,

2786
01:38:49,480 --> 01:38:51,440
then you can say like, "Look, such and

2787
01:38:51,440 --> 01:38:52,680
such neighborhood reached out or

2788
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:55,000
whatever. We took care of it. See how

2789
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:56,280
good this is?"

2790
01:38:56,280 --> 01:38:58,760
And I'd be like so supportive. And then

2791
01:38:58,760 --> 01:38:59,440
maybe

2792
01:38:59,440 --> 01:39:03,440
>> So, I think to me what I've observed is

2793
01:39:03,440 --> 01:39:05,560
staff goes out of their way to help any

2794
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:08,400
resident that comes in. Carolyn knows

2795
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:08,800
>> Well, right

2796
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:10,680
>> half the people that comes in are more

2797
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:13,960
than half by name and greets them and

2798
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:15,920
help them with whatever they need with.

2799
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:18,040
And that's I feel like how most of the

2800
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:20,120
people in this

2801
01:39:20,120 --> 01:39:22,840
on staff are. That they will address and

2802
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:25,880
do things. Now, if you want them to help

2803
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:28,040
somebody on the phone or in person and

2804
01:39:28,040 --> 01:39:30,160
then type up what they did,

2805
01:39:30,160 --> 01:39:32,000
is that what you're asking for? Cuz to

2806
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:33,720
me, that's not efficient.

2807
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:37,920
>> I agree. What whatever system it is, if we have raises and we can base it off

2808
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:41,680
of this, satisfaction of the See, most people do it by numbers. How many

2809
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:44,240
sales or how much how much stuff you

2810
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:46,680
created or sold or or that kind of a

2811
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:48,640
thing. Our our We're kind of in a

2812
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:51,720
non-profit world where our impact is

2813
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:54,520
resident satisfaction. That's like our

2814
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:56,760
That's our success. We we we That's our

2815
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:58,680
fulfillment. That's our product. The

2816
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:01,000
resident um being fulfilled. That's like

2817
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:03,800
the need we're meeting. And so, I'm just

2818
01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:05,000
trying to figure out a way to measure

2819
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:07,480
that. And then it's not like, "Hey, does

2820
01:40:07,480 --> 01:40:09,000
Andrew think these fine folks should get

2821
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:10,480
a raise or not?"

2822
01:40:10,480 --> 01:40:12,280
What a great position. No, it's more

2823
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:13,400
like

2824
01:40:13,400 --> 01:40:17,360
we we we open up the the the very easy,

2825
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:20,080
you know, system that we create if we do

2826
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:22,120
it this way or whatever, and we show

2827
01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:24,680
them that or they show us or whoever's

2828
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:26,480
sitting here in the future cuz it could

2829
01:40:26,480 --> 01:40:27,880
be other people. Could be them. They

2830
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:29,800
could be sitting here. And they say,

2831
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:32,720
"Look, you you did all these things. And

2832
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:34,760
on 100 South, these folks came in and we

2833
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:36,080
fixed it." And

2834
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:37,680
>> But Andrew, those we don't even need to

2835
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:39,880
create it. It Your comment reminded me

2836
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:42,320
of about 2 years ago. I went to Highland

2837
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:43,640
and I said, "Hey, how do you guys do

2838
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:45,840
this?" And she just pulled up a

2839
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:48,280
spreadsheet. And she said, "This is how

2840
01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:50,080
we do it. This is how we track it. As a

2841
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:52,640
matter of fact, we report on all council

2842
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:54,440
meetings. We'll tell them we have this

2843
01:40:54,440 --> 01:40:57,000
many public works requests. We have this

2844
01:40:57,000 --> 01:40:58,920
many No one's having to type a follow-up

2845
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:02,160
anything. It's literally all automated

2846
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:04,440
and everybody has public or the council

2847
01:41:04,440 --> 01:41:06,160
has access to it through a reporting

2848
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:08,560
structure. And so, there's not Again,

2849
01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:11,400
it's not more steps. It's actually less

2850
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:13,240
steps because now we don't have the

2851
01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:16,400
resident showing up here and saying why

2852
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:18,880
they're unhappy. And now it's taken time

2853
01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:20,920
and then we have to have staff follow up

2854
01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:22,880
with them. But they're actually just

2855
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:25,480
They All these things exist. Highland

2856
01:41:25,480 --> 01:41:28,760
has an incredible What are they using? I

2857
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:30,960
um I Again, it was 2 years ago. We

2858
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:32,680
talked about it. We've been talking

2859
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:34,920
about this I think since Greg Gordon.

2860
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:36,920
Also, he had mentioned some

2861
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:38,440
public-facing

2862
01:41:38,440 --> 01:41:40,840
um customer service, you know, CS

2863
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:43,200
platforms that would be super helpful so

2864
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:43,720
we could

2865
01:41:43,720 --> 01:41:45,160
>> Well, we have the we have the we have

2866
01:41:45,160 --> 01:41:47,040
the website that works, but like a good

2867
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:51,280
example is one time I caught Landon on a

2868
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:53,480
big excavator

2869
01:41:53,480 --> 01:41:55,720
on Healey taking down all the trees

2870
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:58,120
behind folks on Healey's house. I got

2871
01:41:58,120 --> 01:41:59,400
calls from people how thankful they

2872
01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:00,360
were.

2873
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:01,480
I don't think he was asked to do it. I

2874
01:42:01,480 --> 01:42:04,040
have no idea. He did it. And he trimmed

2875
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:05,760
it all. They were so happy all the folks

2876
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:07,800
on Healey next to that new lot that I'm

2877
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:09,680
sure Shane was involved in many others.

2878
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:10,920
I don't I don't know who all, but I just

2879
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:12,440
saw. Anyways,

2880
01:42:12,440 --> 01:42:13,640
um that new lot where they're trying to

2881
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:15,840
build a new cul-de-sac or something.

2882
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:17,160
That would be something where they could

2883
01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:18,200
show

2884
01:42:18,200 --> 01:42:20,160
we even went above and beyond and these

2885
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:22,800
residents were very satisfied. Um and

2886
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:24,160
this was one of the things we did.

2887
01:42:24,160 --> 01:42:27,440
Healey neighborhood, very happy. Or um

2888
01:42:27,440 --> 01:42:28,560
there here's their names or something.

2889
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:30,040
Just a little thing. And then I have a

2890
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:32,480
really nice basis to be like these guys

2891
01:42:32,480 --> 01:42:34,800
are above and beyond. This staff is

2892
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:36,480
doing everything they're asked for and

2893
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:38,400
why should they not get a raise?

2894
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:40,000
>> That's what I say. They do those things

2895
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:40,840
every day.

2896
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:42,160
>> Well, no, I know. So so maybe it's just

2897
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:45,200
as simple as having a system that shows

2898
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:46,960
that to us cuz say I hadn't driven by

2899
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:49,320
there and known that, then I wouldn't be

2900
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:49,920
able to

2901
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:51,120
>> That's part of their job.

2902
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:53,400
>> If we document everything we do, like we

2903
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:55,680
have to write it down,

2904
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:58,000
it will take away from the boots on the

2905
01:42:58,000 --> 01:42:59,880
ground. You know what I'm saying? We can

2906
01:42:59,880 --> 01:43:02,880
do it, but it will it's it's got to take

2907
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:04,520
time away from the day because it takes

2908
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:06,760
time. I think that goes I think that

2909
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:08,760
goes beyond the scope of our role. Like

2910
01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:09,600
husband said.

2911
01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:11,120
>> It's fair. Um I'm just trying to get a

2912
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:12,800
non-subjective way to do it.

2913
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:15,080
>> No, I do agree like getting back to the

2914
01:43:15,080 --> 01:43:17,000
residents they're expressing a concern.

2915
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:18,600
I do think we need to be better about

2916
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:20,840
following up with that. But as far as

2917
01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:23,160
them documenting what they do every day,

2918
01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:24,320
um

2919
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:25,600
you know, you're like, oh, that's great

2920
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:27,160
that he did that. Well, that's just him

2921
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:28,560
doing his job.

2922
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:29,120
>> No, I know.

2923
01:43:29,120 --> 01:43:30,320
>> They do great things every day.

2924
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:31,920
>> Well, I know.

2925
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:34,960
>> One thought efficiencies is, you know, I

2926
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:37,360
think the staff kind of knows how they

2927
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:39,080
could be more efficient and maybe that's

2928
01:43:39,080 --> 01:43:40,480
a conversation we need to have with them

2929
01:43:40,480 --> 01:43:42,400
as well. Like, what what can we do to

2930
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:44,600
help you be more efficient or effective

2931
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:46,560
in your job? Because

2932
01:43:46,560 --> 01:43:48,600
I don't really know, but they know

2933
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:50,600
because they do this every day.

2934
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:52,680
And then just understanding for me what

2935
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:55,080
they do on a daily basis helps me

2936
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:57,280
understand like, okay, what what time do

2937
01:43:57,280 --> 01:43:59,760
they actually have to devote to doing

2938
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:02,760
XYZ that we're asking them to do.

2939
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:04,360
I don't know. I think an evaluation of

2940
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:05,880
that or that needs to be part of the

2941
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:07,680
conversation as well.

2942
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:09,480
>> Well, and that drives to I know you're

2943
01:44:09,480 --> 01:44:11,480
trying to leave, but there is this one

2944
01:44:11,480 --> 01:44:13,080
new hires. So, when we're asked to

2945
01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:15,920
approve new hires, we can look back and

2946
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:18,080
have data and say, "Oh,

2947
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:22,160
we definitely need this person." And so,

2948
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:24,240
I I get I don't know if we're ending the

2949
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:26,320
meeting because Sarah's having to leave

2950
01:44:26,320 --> 01:44:28,200
or if you guys can continue it, but

2951
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:30,840
where do you just stand before you leave

2952
01:44:30,840 --> 01:44:33,800
on if you want more information about

2953
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:34,840
dividing up the roles and

2954
01:44:34,840 --> 01:44:37,920
responsibilities? Like, would I compare

2955
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:39,720
it again to Cedar Hills and now knowing

2956
01:44:39,720 --> 01:44:41,800
that they're smaller, it's even

2957
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:44,000
interesting. Cedar Hills is a smaller

2958
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:46,600
city has a finance director and they

2959
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:49,480
also have what they call an HR risk

2960
01:44:49,480 --> 01:44:53,320
assessment management employee. So,

2961
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:55,440
I would really like to look at bringing

2962
01:44:55,440 --> 01:44:58,960
those two positions in to staff along

2963
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:01,640
with the city planner.

2964
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:03,960
And potentially as all three part-time.

2965
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:07,840
Maybe one's a fractional. Um HR is often

2966
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:10,440
times outsourced. And there's a lot of

2967
01:45:10,440 --> 01:45:12,320
great companies out there that do it. I

2968
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:13,840
think we have a lot of, you know,

2969
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:15,120
awesome companies at the point of the

2970
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:18,120
mountain. And then again, a city planner

2971
01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:19,440
we have

2972
01:45:19,440 --> 01:45:21,920
um trying to understand if Shane's time

2973
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:24,000
is cleared up because he's not doing all

2974
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:26,320
the finance stuff, then I don't know if

2975
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:28,800
we really need a full-time city planner.

2976
01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:32,080
If that will offload quite a bit of his

2977
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:35,160
time as a resource moving it more into

2978
01:45:35,160 --> 01:45:37,440
the city planning side and off of the

2979
01:45:37,440 --> 01:45:38,200
finance.

2980
01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:40,400
>> I think those are great ideas and all of

2981
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:42,520
very many city administrators that will

2982
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:45,320
be working on writing ordinances and the

2983
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:48,280
day-to-day things of new um

2984
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:50,800
new commercial site plans coming in.

2985
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:52,800
>> it was presented as we needed a planner

2986
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:54,720
so that Caden could work closer with

2987
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:57,080
Shane. And so

2988
01:45:57,080 --> 01:45:58,960
with that, if you just look at the

2989
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:01,280
adjustment of responsibilities,

2990
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:02,240
if

2991
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:03,200
um

2992
01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:05,320
Caden and Shane can work together closer

2993
01:46:05,320 --> 01:46:07,000
because Shane's not having to work on

2994
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:09,320
the finance side, we may not have to

2995
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:11,920
offload some of so much of Caden's work

2996
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:15,880
to a whole new full-time employee.

2997
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:17,760
>> Right, but it's not just the finance

2998
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:19,440
thing. It You know what I mean? I think

2999
01:46:19,440 --> 01:46:21,960
that's great. Let's offload that and I

3000
01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:23,800
think Shane would appreciate that. I

3001
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:26,840
think um that wasn't anything that

3002
01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:29,160
anyone asked him to do, but I think he

3003
01:46:29,160 --> 01:46:33,080
had um he has an understanding of it and

3004
01:46:33,080 --> 01:46:34,240
that that's something that he was

3005
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:35,920
willing to take on

3006
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:38,480
and realizing that it takes so much of

3007
01:46:38,480 --> 01:46:40,960
the time during especially budget

3008
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:42,120
season.

3009
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:43,120
Um

3010
01:46:43,120 --> 01:46:45,240
totally willing to go down there, but I

3011
01:46:45,240 --> 01:46:48,640
do think the idea of

3012
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:50,520
and I think mainly it's driven by you,

3013
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:53,960
Andrew, but to address the needs as far

3014
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:56,760
as, you know, my thing has always been

3015
01:46:56,760 --> 01:46:59,440
instead of catering to specific people,

3016
01:46:59,440 --> 01:47:01,440
if we have a you know, if we have a

3017
01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:03,400
deficiency in our code, then let's fix

3018
01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:05,960
it. And that needs to be worked on.

3019
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:07,600
But that's something that a city planner

3020
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:09,680
does, not an administrator or an

3021
01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:12,080
assistant administrator. You know, for

3022
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:14,920
Shane to work with Caden, it's

3023
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:17,600
really understanding our city and in

3024
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:19,320
imparting some of that institutional

3025
01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:21,720
knowledge. It's not just

3026
01:47:21,720 --> 01:47:24,920
Yes, this season it has been finances

3027
01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:26,440
just cuz that's the season that we're

3028
01:47:26,440 --> 01:47:29,240
in, but the rest of it is going to be,

3029
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:30,640
you know, really understanding. It's

3030
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:32,840
amazing to me when something comes in

3031
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:34,400
and there's an issue.

3032
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:36,800
Shane's like, "Oh, yeah, that's

3033
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:39,000
you know, when so-and-so was here,

3034
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:40,920
that's why that's that way." Where

3035
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:43,640
nobody understood why this lot was the

3036
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:44,960
way it was. We're like, "How did that

3037
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:46,800
happen, you know?"

3038
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:48,880
And he And some of that is just kind of

3039
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:50,840
imparting that institutional knowledge

3040
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:52,880
so that Caden will understand so that he

3041
01:47:52,880 --> 01:47:54,520
can make better decisions in the long

3042
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:58,160
run. It's not just teaching him

3043
01:47:58,160 --> 01:48:00,120
the job. It's Some of it is just trying

3044
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:01,520
to transfer that institutional

3045
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:02,920
knowledge. Kind of like what we're doing

3046
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,160
with Greg and his um

3047
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:08,880
with James is that there's so many years

3048
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:10,480
of institutional knowledge. There's only

3049
01:48:10,480 --> 01:48:11,920
so many things that I can tell him, but

3050
01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:13,760
then there's like literally a hundred

3051
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:15,320
other things or a thousand other things

3052
01:48:15,320 --> 01:48:16,920
that will come up.

3053
01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:18,960
And you can't really teach that. It's

3054
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:20,200
on-the-job training.

3055
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:21,840
>> And I understand that. I'd still like to

3056
01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:25,000
look at a finance director and an HR

3057
01:48:25,000 --> 01:48:27,160
risk assessment. Those are just

3058
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:28,920
>> Great. And maybe a public works director

3059
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:30,040
would be fantastic.

3060
01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:32,000
>> thing on here of these cities that are

3061
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:33,800
on this sheet we were given just before

3062
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:34,960
the meeting.

3063
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:37,320
Of the the seven I think seven cities

3064
01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:39,360
are on here.

3065
01:48:39,360 --> 01:48:41,640
Uh the six besides Alpine have a

3066
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:43,240
full-time public works director and a

3067
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:45,880
full-time finance director.

3068
01:48:45,880 --> 01:48:48,080
Um I The mayor said

3069
01:48:48,080 --> 01:48:50,680
I wasn't asked by the city

3070
01:48:50,680 --> 01:48:52,720
to take on those responsibilities. I

3071
01:48:52,720 --> 01:48:54,680
volunteered to do it, but I almost feel

3072
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:55,880
like it's my

3073
01:48:55,880 --> 01:48:57,320
>> Right. So now we're at a point where we

3074
01:48:57,320 --> 01:49:00,320
need to re-evaluate. No No judgment on

3075
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:01,360
that. Just like, "Hey, let's

3076
01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:02,360
re-evaluate."

3077
01:49:02,360 --> 01:49:05,480
>> Yeah, which is going to mean more money,

3078
01:49:05,480 --> 01:49:07,600
which is probably going to mean a tax

3079
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:09,840
increase. Just being totally honest.

3080
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:12,480
>> I mean, I'm open to evaluating that and

3081
01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:14,640
looking at, you know, efficiencies of

3082
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:15,640
other

3083
01:49:15,640 --> 01:49:18,360
adding other positions. Um I just think

3084
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:20,360
that also we should

3085
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:22,360
um

3086
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:23,840
I just think we should have an

3087
01:49:23,840 --> 01:49:25,160
understanding of where we're at right

3088
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:27,920
now and then also include you know,

3089
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:30,480
staff's recommendation as well as to

3090
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:32,360
what they feel like would

3091
01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:35,200
help us be more efficient as well. So,

3092
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:36,360
as long as that's part of the

3093
01:49:36,360 --> 01:49:37,840
conversation

3094
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:40,320
and I'm okay exploring that, but

3095
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:41,920
>> Okay, I have to leave it too.

3096
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:44,120
>> Here's my conclusion for myself. I

3097
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:45,360
really appreciate this uh I think this

3098
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:47,760
has been very, very helpful. I I don't

3099
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:49,080
think

3100
01:49:49,080 --> 01:49:50,520
But moving forward, I would like to have

3101
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:53,080
the information sooner and a and a more

3102
01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:54,560
precise

3103
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:57,160
analysis of proposed raises

3104
01:49:57,160 --> 01:49:58,400
well in advance so we can have these

3105
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:00,040
discussions, maybe even have work work

3106
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:03,560
sessions before the budget session. Um

3107
01:50:03,560 --> 01:50:05,560
I am grateful for the employees.

3108
01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:08,240
I am open like Sarah to discussions of

3109
01:50:08,240 --> 01:50:10,760
potential alternatives to the staff's

3110
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:13,680
proposal of full-time planner.

3111
01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:15,880
Uh I like I understand the

3112
01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:18,600
considerations. So, I'm

3113
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:20,400
just like any other issue,

3114
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:21,840
I would like to study it, understand it

3115
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:23,120
better before I and make the most

3116
01:50:23,120 --> 01:50:24,800
informed decision I can.

3117
01:50:24,800 --> 01:50:26,400
Um

3118
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:28,960
And then I look forward to talk I I I'm

3119
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:32,320
in support of your raise for the

3120
01:50:32,320 --> 01:50:34,600
non-executive employees. We'll have talk

3121
01:50:34,600 --> 01:50:35,760
more about the executives later, I

3122
01:50:35,760 --> 01:50:36,960
think.

3123
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:39,440
>> So, on that, I mean to have the item on

3124
01:50:39,440 --> 01:50:41,280
the agenda we don't have any

3125
01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:43,360
information.

3126
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:43,640
>> How about what?

3127
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:45,080
>> Like we have to have an ordinance with

3128
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:47,960
an exhibit that shows the rate the

3129
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:49,680
compensation

3130
01:50:49,680 --> 01:50:51,040
for executive officer.

3131
01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:53,480
>> now it's 5% and 3%?

3132
01:50:53,480 --> 01:50:54,000
Is that what it was?

3133
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:55,160
>> That's what it was on there.

3134
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:57,240
>> So, I think we could just go with that

3135
01:50:57,240 --> 01:50:58,880
and then if council wants to change it

3136
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:00,480
during the meeting, that way it won't be

3137
01:51:00,480 --> 01:51:02,360
extra work. It's already there. So, if

3138
01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:03,680
you guys want to change it

3139
01:51:03,680 --> 01:51:04,440
>> Well, hold on, Mayor.

3140
01:51:04,440 --> 01:51:06,000
>> that's fully fine in the ordinance.

3141
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:08,080
>> Don't Weren't we just told we don't make

3142
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:10,960
a decision on the staff that the we make

3143
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:12,640
a decision on the supervisors and then

3144
01:51:12,640 --> 01:51:14,120
they make a decision on the staff or do

3145
01:51:14,120 --> 01:51:15,600
we make a decision on both?

3146
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:17,640
>> No, no, no. So,

3147
01:51:17,640 --> 01:51:19,840
for the executive staff, yes.

3148
01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:24,400
But, staff salary is part of the total

3149
01:51:24,400 --> 01:51:27,480
raises. So, yes, you will get a say, I

3150
01:51:27,480 --> 01:51:29,080
mean, of the total budget cuz you have

3151
01:51:29,080 --> 01:51:30,080
to approve the

3152
01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:33,560
total budget. So, you don't get a say on

3153
01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:35,960
individual staff other than the

3154
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:37,760
executive staff.

3155
01:51:37,760 --> 01:51:40,760
You get a say on the overall raises for

3156
01:51:40,760 --> 01:51:43,280
the entirety of the staff as part of the

3157
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:45,160
final budget.

3158
01:51:45,160 --> 01:51:46,280
Does that make sense?

3159
01:51:46,280 --> 01:51:47,600
>> They didn't make it very simple, did

3160
01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:47,840
they?

3161
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:50,400
>> So, why are we moving forward

3162
01:51:50,400 --> 01:51:53,040
with the They were two different agenda

3163
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,960
items. So, to move forward with the

3164
01:51:55,960 --> 01:51:58,280
staff at the next council meeting makes

3165
01:51:58,280 --> 01:52:01,360
sense. We still haven't even had time to

3166
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:04,760
dive into the executive side. So, why

3167
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:09,080
don't we continue that as the table?

3168
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:11,600
>> So, what more information do you need on

3169
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:12,560
the executive side?

3170
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:14,520
>> even think we've gone into a closed

3171
01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:17,240
session to discuss any kind of

3172
01:52:17,240 --> 01:52:19,640
evaluation or anything like that to

3173
01:52:19,640 --> 01:52:22,400
really bring in all information.

3174
01:52:22,400 --> 01:52:24,920
>> We did that back in January.

3175
01:52:24,920 --> 01:52:25,680
>> Do you need Do you want

3176
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:27,560
>> going to be a follow-up, but there would

3177
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:28,360
never was.

3178
01:52:28,360 --> 01:52:29,640
>> Well, that's true. Next city council

3179
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:30,600
meeting as far as

3180
01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:33,320
>> can go into the closed session, but I

3181
01:52:33,320 --> 01:52:36,080
would strongly suggest that you not

3182
01:52:36,080 --> 01:52:37,960
delay

3183
01:52:37,960 --> 01:52:40,440
the um tabled item for either one of

3184
01:52:40,440 --> 01:52:42,000
them. I think they're all anxious.

3185
01:52:42,000 --> 01:52:43,640
They're waiting. Um

3186
01:52:43,640 --> 01:52:45,600
>> Well, it's again, our other cities are

3187
01:52:45,600 --> 01:52:47,280
doing it right now, too. We're all

3188
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:48,280
moving through this process.

3189
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:51,280
>> city that is going through something and

3190
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:54,280
really there it's 1%. And if that's the

3191
01:52:54,280 --> 01:52:57,120
case, you know, let's work it through,

3192
01:52:57,120 --> 01:52:59,800
but my suggestion is not to table it

3193
01:52:59,800 --> 01:53:00,800
again.

3194
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:02,800
>> If we did the closed session next

3195
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:04,400
meeting, wouldn't it be after the vote

3196
01:53:04,400 --> 01:53:05,800
when you need it before?

3197
01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:08,080
>> No, you can You can call to go into a

3198
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:08,800
closed session.

3199
01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:10,160
>> the middle. That's right. I've seen

3200
01:53:10,160 --> 01:53:12,360
that. Yeah. Okay. You could do that. Or

3201
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:13,720
do you want to do it today, Jessica?

3202
01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:14,360
>> I I mean

3203
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:15,560
>> No, you can't go into a closed session.

3204
01:53:15,560 --> 01:53:16,800
This is a work session.

3205
01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:18,520
>> So, I was just testing you on that one.

3206
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:19,633
Good job.

3207
01:53:19,633 --> 01:53:20,880
>> [laughter]

3208
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:23,000
>> Okay, I'll entertain a motion to

3209
01:53:23,000 --> 01:53:25,080
adjourn.

3210
01:53:25,080 --> 01:53:26,160
>> I'll move to adjourn.

3211
01:53:26,160 --> 01:53:26,960
>> Is there a second?

3212
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:27,680
>> Second.

3213
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:29,120
>> It's been moved by Councilman Remler,

3214
01:53:29,120 --> 01:53:31,320
seconded by Councilwoman um Smullen. All

3215
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:31,960
in favor?

3216
01:53:31,960 --> 01:53:33,080
>> Aye.

3217
01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:35,560
>> Adjourned.