[0:00] All right, we'll go ahead and call to
[0:01] order the Alpine City Council meeting
[0:04] for July 28th, 2026. We'd like to excuse
[0:08] Mayor Carla Merrill and Council Member
[0:10] Schmooan who are both out of town and
[0:12] not able to attend tonight uh remotely.
[0:16] We'll go ahead and start with a roll
[0:17] call vote starting with um Andrew Young.
[0:20] >> Andrew Young present.
[0:22] >> Brent Rummler present.
[0:23] >> Sarah Blackwell present.
[0:25] >> Thank you. Chrissy Haniman, just let me
[0:26] know. She's going to be a few minutes
[0:28] late, but she should be here shortly.
[0:30] Um, I've asked Andrew Young to fill in
[0:33] and and say the prayer, and then I will
[0:35] lead us in the pledge of allegiance.
[0:37] [clears throat]
[0:39] Our heavenly father, we're grateful to
[0:40] be here as a community and blessed
[0:43] Alpine residents. We're grateful for all
[0:45] of the opportunities and uh blessings we
[0:50] have to live here, to interact with one
[0:52] another. We pray with all of our hearts
[0:55] that uh on the issues today and also
[0:58] coming up that that would please uh
[1:01] bless us and those involved. Bless their
[1:05] hearts to be softened. bless their uh
[1:08] bless an outcome that will truly be what
[1:11] our goal is
[1:14] or what we hope thy goal is is to make
[1:16] uh this and Utah in our small city a
[1:20] place that is uh peaceful a place where
[1:23] thy spirit can be and a place that is uh
[1:26] safe and we say this humbly with
[1:28] gratitude in the name of Jesus Christ.
[1:30] Amen. Please rise for the pledge of
[1:32] allegiance.
[1:36] » Ice
[1:37] to the flag of the United States of
[1:40] America and to the republic for which it
[1:43] stands. One nation under God,
[1:47] indivisible with liberty and justice for
[1:50] all.
[1:53] » Hi. Thank you very much for being here
[1:55] tonight. It's always nice to have people
[1:56] come and and participate in our in our
[1:59] civil process. We're going to go ahead
[2:01] and move on to the consent calendar. It
[2:04] was recommended by the city attorney
[2:06] that we consider moving action item A to
[2:10] the consent calendar. Um
[2:13] >> um I I'll make a motion to that we move
[2:16] action item A to the consent calendar. I
[2:19] don't think it matters where, right? Um
[2:21] maybe item D as item D.
[2:27] » Uh do we have a second? I'll second
[2:29] that. All right, let's go ahead and
[2:31] proceed with a roll call vote starting
[2:33] with Andrew. Andrew Young, yes. Brent
[2:35] Ramard, yes.
[2:35] >> Sir Blackwell, yes.
[2:37] >> Thank you. The motion passes. Um, do we
[2:40] have any questions about the consent
[2:42] calendar or any comments from staff
[2:44] about the consent calendar?
[2:46] >> Go ahead, Andrew, you want to start or
[2:48] >> Yeah. Yeah. Very quickly and brief. Uh,
[2:50] Sarah, did you want to talk about that
[2:51] only because it was going to be a little
[2:53] bit later and I did get the emails. Um,
[2:55] did you want to explain kind of the
[2:57] clarification or or Shane, I know you
[2:59] guys were looking for some clarification
[3:00] on the motion. Did it get resolved? Did
[3:03] everyone have
[3:04] >> to do
[3:06] those?
[3:07] >> Are you okay? Is everyone okay? Because
[3:09] I didn't know that it got resolved.
[3:12] Is there anything you wanted to explain
[3:14] or anything about it or just
[3:15] >> um just when I um the motion was made um
[3:18] some parentheses were omitted and which
[3:22] made a big difference in how the the
[3:24] motion read so it was a little confusing
[3:26] so we just clarified the motion
[3:30] essentially so that we're all have
[3:32] consensus are all on the same page what
[3:34] the intent was.
[3:36] >> Thank you. Anything else?
[3:38] >> That was great. No on the other two
[3:39] items or do you want to wait for those?
[3:40] >> No, go ahead. Uh the other two items are
[3:42] quick. Um the uh the uh the chip and
[3:46] seal and sil coat looks beautiful.
[3:49] [clears throat] Uh I just went through
[3:50] the numbers. I wasn't sure where the
[3:53] extra 10 grand came from that was added.
[3:56] I think it was uh
[4:00] creek uh Deer Creek. Is that where it
[4:03] was added? Uh so I just had a couple
[4:05] questions and
[4:06] >> I think it was I think it was traffic
[4:07] control.
[4:09] is where that came from.
[4:11] >> Yeah.
[4:11] >> And then just uh just the
[4:14] uh it's it's about 50 grand for the uh
[4:19] for the three falls road that no one
[4:21] uses.
[4:22] Um you know that that extra road and uh
[4:26] well it's not quite that much actually.
[4:27] It's a little lower because part of it
[4:28] was the entrance roads. There were like
[4:30] two paths. Um I don't know just if you
[4:33] want us to research ways we can handle
[4:34] that because no one really drives on it.
[4:36] was just expensive road. That's exactly why we're doing it. I
[4:39] don't know if you remember Iligia
[4:40] Estates. There was asphalt up there.
[4:42] >> It just grows like crazy.
[4:44] >> Drove on.
[4:45] >> So, I don't know.
[4:46] >> And it actually deteriorated worse than a street that
[4:50] gets driven on.
[4:51] >> He explained that to me and I was like,
[4:52] "Oh my gosh." So, when we we
[4:54] [clears throat] don't do this on roads
[4:55] we don't drive on, they actually become
[4:56] worse off. So, anyway, it's just
[4:57] expensive for a road that never gets
[4:59] used. So,
[4:59] >> and I don't think it was 50 grand.
[5:01] >> It's 19 like 195.
[5:04] >> Well, the the two of them together. So,
[5:06] it's just the two of them together.
[5:07] >> Well, the other the other
[5:08] >> the other one was on. I I know. That's
[5:09] why I said I brought it back down the
[5:11] two of them together.
[5:12] >> I mean, I can tell you exactly if I find
[5:14] way.
[5:14] >> No, no, it's okay. It's just But uh the
[5:16] main question was if we find a way to
[5:19] preserve these roads that don't actually
[5:21] need drive them driving on them, some
[5:23] glue, some anything. Just keep your uh
[5:25] you know, engineering antennas open for
[5:28] potentially a fix for roads that never
[5:31] get on. uh if we don't seal them, they
[5:34] are, you know,
[5:35] >> and that's exactly what we did. This is
[5:37] a seal coat. It's not an overlay. It's the cheapest it's the cheapest
[5:42] alternative to protect it from the as
[5:47] the asphalts in the pavement uh
[5:50] oxidizing,
[5:50] >> breaking up. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, that
[5:52] was that was it. Just just just looking
[5:54] at them. Um thanks. They look so great.
[5:55] And then uh on the um on the 185 for the
[6:00] water truck, nice find. I I did some
[6:04] comparative numbers. That was really
[6:05] good. Thanks for getting a used one.
[6:06] It's got a new engine. So I I thank you
[6:09] for finding that. I think that'll help
[6:10] with the rodeo and everything.
[6:11] >> All the thanks to Landon.
[6:13] >> Thank you, Landon, for um for finding
[6:15] that and finding a used one.
[6:16] >> And it's it's been in process for a long
[6:19] time.
[6:20] >> Yeah, I saw the work. I I meant to bring
[6:22] this all up this morning, but our water
[6:23] meeting and things that got in the way.
[6:25] Thank you. That's all.
[6:27] >> All right. Thank you. Any further
[6:28] questions?
[6:30] >> I'll go ahead and entertain a motion.
[6:34] >> I move that we approve the consent
[6:36] calendar.
[6:38] >> Second.
[6:40] >> Okay. We'll go ahead and proceed with a
[6:41] roll call vote.
[6:42] >> Andrew Young, yes.
[6:43] >> Brent Rmler, yes.
[6:43] >> Sarah Blackwell, yes.
[6:45] >> Right. The motion passes.
[6:47] >> Thank you. Uh, thank you, Shane, for the
[6:48] clarification. We'll move on to public
[6:50] comments. Um we receive I have two cards
[6:53] I received. Um, one, um, is related to
[6:59] an item that's on the agenda for tonight
[7:02] and under Alpine City policy, um, that's
[7:07] been
[7:09] explained in prior meetings, including
[7:11] about this issue, is we we will not be
[7:13] doing any comments related to items that
[7:16] are on the agenda
[7:18] because there's not a public hearing
[7:20] related to that.
[7:21] So the other public comment card is from
[7:24] Larry. Larry, if you would go ahead and
[7:26] come forward. It's Van
[7:30] I know your email is just Van.
[7:32] >> Yeah, Van Vector.
[7:33] >> Van Vector. Thanks, Larry. And we've
[7:34] spoken before.
[7:35] >> So Larry, just let you know, um, if you
[7:38] could state your name and the street
[7:39] where you live. Okay.
[7:40] >> And you have three minutes. And I
[7:41] appreciate you being here.
[7:42] >> Okay. He had a file
[7:43] >> and I did send over a a slide in an
[7:46] email
[7:46] >> that could get pulled up. Yeah, I'm
[7:47] Larry Van Becker over on Alagany Court
[7:51] and I'm here to remind you guys that
[7:54] we're still hoping that we can get some
[7:56] adjustment to the speed on Canyon Crest.
[7:59] I'm here to represent or not represent
[8:01] but to at least in regards to the
[8:03] neighborhoods along Canyon Crest. And
[8:06] not too long ago, somebody did the
[8:09] disservice of renaming Westfield and
[8:12] Canyon Crest as arteries when they're
[8:14] actually not. They're just other humble
[8:17] streets in Alpine just like yours and
[8:20] with families and friends living on
[8:21] them. Actually, no wider than Alpine
[8:24] Boulevard.
[8:26] And I've been trying to come up with
[8:28] reasons, pros and cons of why a 35 mph
[8:33] speed would be better than 25. And the
[8:36] only thing I could come up with was that
[8:38] you can get somewhere extremely
[8:40] important one minute sooner.
[8:42] >> Kaden, it's 25. PDF the first one.
[8:45] >> And the cons are it's much more
[8:48] difficult to pull out of a street or a
[8:50] driveway into traffic going 35 than it
[8:53] is traffic going 25. It's much more
[8:56] difficult attempting to use a crosswalk
[8:58] in traffic going 35 as opposed to 25.
[9:01] Especially when the crosswalks are
[9:03] inadequately marked.
[9:06] There is more rumble in the ground and
[9:07] noise in the air when vehicles are going
[9:10] 35 as opposed to 25.
[9:12] Drivers in a 35 zone tend to do 45 while
[9:15] drivers in the 25 zone keep it to 30.
[9:19] Vehicle accidents at 35 are more
[9:22] hazardous than when they are going 25.
[9:26] And with not a whole lot of benefit that
[9:28] I can come up with, I would hope that
[9:30] you guys might consider lowering the
[9:32] speed on Canest and Westfield so that we
[9:36] could enjoy the same peaceful quality of
[9:39] life that others in the neighborhood
[9:42] enjoy. And as you can see in the
[9:44] picture, the first picture there about
[9:46] the 35 zone, but people are doing 47 up
[9:49] that hill. And in the second picture
[9:54] is Another view with a new sign.
[9:59] Enjoy the tranquility of Alpine.
[10:03] >> Right, Sarah?
[10:04] >> I like it. [laughter]
[10:05] >> All right. Thanks for your time.
[10:06] >> Thank you very much. Appreciate your
[10:08] comments. [clears throat]
[10:10] I would like to acknowledge that council
[10:13] member Hanaman has arrived.
[10:15] Thank you.
[10:18] All right. Um, we'll go on to reports
[10:21] and presentations. The first report is
[10:23] the parks master plan update. Shane, do
[10:27] you have any introduction?
[10:28] >> Yeah, so we've been working on this for
[10:30] several months. Uh Lisa Benson's here um
[10:34] from the the consulting group that's uh
[10:37] working on this project and they've her
[10:39] and Karen have done an awesome job. We
[10:42] meet uh it weekly or every other week. I
[10:45] hit all kinds of runs together now. I
[10:47] just have meetings all the time, but we
[10:49] meet regularly and go over things. Um,
[10:52] we [clears throat] wanted to uh have a
[10:55] presentation and let the council kind of
[10:58] see the results of the survey and some
[11:00] of the things that they've done and then
[11:01] we need some direction on a few things
[11:04] to to keep this moving forward. So, I
[11:07] think Lisa has a presentation that
[11:09] she'll give us here tonight.
[11:14] » All right. Um, thank you for the
[11:16] opportunity to be here. We're really
[11:18] excited to be at this part of the
[11:19] project. Um I just wanted to hit a few
[11:22] highlights. Um we have been working with
[11:24] a steering committee as well in addition
[11:26] to working with staff and then we had
[11:28] our community survey and our public
[11:30] event here at city hall which um had a
[11:32] really really good turnout. So we're
[11:34] excited to kind of give you some of the
[11:35] findings before we move into our draft
[11:37] plan phase and just get your thoughts on
[11:39] a few items as Shane mentioned. Um, so
[11:42] we had 362 responses to the survey,
[11:45] which is actually pretty high for just
[11:47] an open-ended survey that anybody could
[11:49] um, participate in. Um, and you can see
[11:52] that park use is really high in your
[11:54] community. This is a lot higher than we
[11:56] see in most of our communities. We're
[11:57] really excited to see this level of of
[11:59] participation with the community and not
[12:01] too surprising that Creekide and Lambert
[12:03] are the most popular parks.
[12:06] Um, the most popular reasons that people
[12:08] use that park, their mostused park, is
[12:11] because it's close to home or for the
[12:12] trails.
[12:15] And you can see again, just following up
[12:16] on proximity to home, over 82% um
[12:20] believe that it's extremely or very
[12:21] important to have parks close to home.
[12:25] And then um the
[12:28] Sorry, it's so tiny. Um, so when we're
[12:31] talking about improvements to parks that
[12:33] people want to see, trails and pathways
[12:35] are the most popular. Um, followed by
[12:37] playground equipment and then it kind of
[12:39] tapers off from there.
[12:43] And then when we look at um what people
[12:46] are going to outside of the community um
[12:49] trails, playgrounds, swimming pools,
[12:52] open space, obviously you have
[12:53] connection to a lot of that in your
[12:54] community. And then athletic courts
[12:59] and people also use trails um at a
[13:01] significantly high rate in your
[13:03] community with over 72% using them, you
[13:05] know, a few times a month or more.
[13:09] And um there's just a small only four
[13:12] people that took the survey don't use
[13:14] trails and you can see there's just a
[13:16] variety of reasons you know physical
[13:17] ability or lack of information um not
[13:20] interested or they use the sidewalks as
[13:22] well and don't necessarily need trails.
[13:26] Um when we look at improvements to the
[13:28] park or to the trail system, people want
[13:30] to see the trails more complete or
[13:32] connected. Um they want to see increased
[13:34] mileage. They want to link neighborhoods
[13:36] to your trail system. And then also just
[13:39] a little better signage, trail markers,
[13:41] that sort of thing, helping people with
[13:42] wayfinding when they're on the system.
[13:46] The most popular trails that people want
[13:48] to see more of are those natural surface
[13:51] um hiking and biking trails. They're pretty content with what you
[13:54] have as far as asphalt and concrete
[13:55] trails right now.
[13:58] Community events, not too surprising
[14:00] that Alpine Days is the most popular. Um
[14:02] followed by the summer poppy fields. uh
[14:04] trucks and tunes and the rodeo.
[14:09] And when we asked what activities people
[14:11] want to see in the future, you can see
[14:12] here that outdoor concerts and
[14:14] performances was number one. Um and that
[14:16] was followed by outdoor markets or
[14:17] vendor fairs and then movie nights,
[14:19] rounding out the top three.
[14:24] And then when we we asked um we gave
[14:26] people a hypothetical $100 and asked
[14:28] them to prioritize that funding. And you
[14:31] can see that upgrading existing parks
[14:33] and playgrounds kind of topped both the
[14:35] allocation and the percentage of people
[14:37] that were dedicating their money towards
[14:38] that um item. Also popular were
[14:42] additional trails and additional open
[14:43] space. So we're seeing a lot of
[14:45] alignment between these different survey
[14:47] responses which is good.
[14:50] Um, and then we asked about um increased
[14:53] um taxes people would be willing to pay
[14:56] for both existing parks, upgrading
[14:59] those, maintaining those, or adding new
[15:01] parks. And you can see there's a pretty
[15:02] close divide here. There's not a big big
[15:05] direction either way. Um, you can see 48
[15:07] to $49 average. And it's a pretty even
[15:10] split slightly leaning towards upgrading
[15:12] those existing parks.
[15:16] And then we just um capture a little bit of demographic information to
[15:20] make sure we're on par, you know, that
[15:21] it's representative of the city. This
[15:22] isn't a statistically valid survey
[15:24] because it was open-ended. It didn't go
[15:25] out randomly, but just to give you kind
[15:27] of a sense of where we're at. I do think
[15:29] the interesting point on here is that um
[15:31] about almost 40% of respondents don't
[15:34] have children in their households. And
[15:36] of those um that do have children in
[15:39] their households, um the greatest
[15:41] portion is there in that older age
[15:42] bracket for the survey.
[15:46] And then just touching on some of the
[15:48] highlights from the openhouse that we
[15:49] had here at city hall. Oh, and the
[15:51] website, I forgot. So, we do have the
[15:53] website going on, alpine parkspl.org,
[15:56] and we've had over a thousand page views
[15:57] and a pretty decent number of unique
[15:59] visitors on that. A few comments coming
[16:01] in on that.
[16:03] And then up at the openhouse, um, we
[16:06] asked about the condition of of of the
[16:08] parks and trails, people's perceptions,
[16:10] and you can see pretty good ratings,
[16:12] excellent or good. um are the greatest
[16:14] portion. And then people get to your
[16:17] parks through um walking or biking,
[16:20] which is this is a higher percentage
[16:21] than we see in most communities, which
[16:23] is kind of significant.
[16:26] Um and then we asked um which special
[16:29] amenities or special use parks should
[16:31] con the city consider uh constructing
[16:33] and you can see [clears throat] trails
[16:35] again right there. Number one, a bicycle
[16:36] pump track and then um kind of lower
[16:39] down was the disc golf climbing park or
[16:41] all abilities playground.
[16:44] And also looking at um again we wanted
[16:47] to ask how close how important it is it
[16:49] to have those parks close to home. Again
[16:51] over 83% saying that's important. And
[16:54] then just generally um an open-ended
[16:56] question about what is missing from the
[16:58] parks and trails system. And you can see
[17:00] again um people want to see playground
[17:02] updates and new equipment. Um again more
[17:06] trails and trail connections. And then a
[17:09] few wanting some soccer fields, disc
[17:10] golf, and some of those other special
[17:12] use facilities.
[17:16] And again, we asked the $100 question,
[17:18] and this time we let people vote with
[17:19] pom poms. Each pom pom was $10 and
[17:22] trails received the highest portion of
[17:24] the vote. Uh followed by natural open
[17:26] space, upgrading those existing
[17:28] amenities, and then adding athletic
[17:30] fields and courts.
[17:33] So, does anybody have any questions on
[17:35] those high level survey results before
[17:38] we
[17:41] >> Okay,
[17:42] >> just one on the uh pro the prop the the
[17:47] if you would add the $48 Oh, pardon me.
[17:50] If you would add the 48 and $47 for the
[17:53] uh development of new parks, the
[17:55] allocation was that question per year or
[17:57] per month?
[17:58] >> That was per year. So you just kind of
[17:59] asked them how much would you be willing
[18:01] to spend
[18:02] >> per year additional property parks and
[18:05] that was kind of where they landed.
[18:06] >> Yeah, that was kind of the average.
[18:08] >> Yeah.
[18:09] >> What options were they given?
[18:11] >> I think it was a scale of 0 to 100.
[18:14] >> So
[18:17] okay so we wanted to touch on um some of
[18:20] the findings from our existing
[18:21] conditions analysis.
[18:23] uh we we take a look at your
[18:24] demographics just to see where you're
[18:26] at, where you're expected to go, and
[18:27] this helps us determine where what your
[18:29] park needs are going to be in the
[18:30] future. So, right now, you're sitting at
[18:32] a little over 10,500 residents, and by
[18:35] 2050, you're only expected to get a
[18:37] little over 11,000. So, not not the
[18:39] amount of growth that we're seeing in
[18:40] other communities. Um, but we know you
[18:43] still have plenty to deal with. So,
[18:45] a lot of lot of interests and needs to
[18:48] meet. So uh we also take a look at your
[18:50] age distribution and you can see that um
[18:52] when we look at the lower end of the age
[18:53] groups um the 10 to 14 age group of
[18:56] children is kind of your largest age
[18:58] group. Um and then you can see that the
[19:01] 55 to 85 age group has also increased
[19:03] since 2000. So it's kind of interesting
[19:05] to watch some of these trends you know
[19:07] both ends of of the the spectrum on age
[19:10] and those differing needs.
[19:12] >> If you go back to that slide that was
[19:13] one of the most fascinating slides I had
[19:15] seen. If you look on the blue line,
[19:17] that's what we were in 2000. This took a
[19:19] little bit for me to understand. I don't
[19:20] know if you all understand it well. The
[19:23] blue line is what our population was in
[19:25] that age bracket in 2010. And then as
[19:27] you see, it's going down towards the red
[19:29] towards where we are now. But it's
[19:31] rising towards the 70 74 year olds, 60
[19:33] to 69 uh dramatically lowering in the 10
[19:37] to well not dramatic, but lowering in
[19:38] the 10 to 14, 15 to 19. Quite a jump
[19:42] down. Do you see this in other cities?
[19:44] Is this a common thing or are we kind of
[19:46] an outlier?
[19:46] >> Um, it depends on the community. We're
[19:48] starting to see some shifts towards
[19:49] older older age groups, but you can also
[19:52] see that um that youngest underage vibe
[19:54] is slowly creeping up too. So, there's
[19:56] all these subtle trends going on.
[19:57] >> That's true. Look at the five to nine
[19:58] year olds who are having some kids. Go
[20:00] ahead. And it seems to be
[20:01] >> I contributed to that this last year in
[20:03] the [laughter]
[20:06] » seems to be as as property values in
[20:07] property costs increase that places
[20:10] further away where it's more affordable.
[20:12] That's where the younger families lived.
[20:14] >> Yeah.
[20:17] >> Okay. So, we take a look at your your
[20:18] park system and then we divide that by
[20:20] park type. And this helps us run a
[20:22] couple of assessments. So, we take all
[20:24] of your um community, neighborhood, and
[20:26] local park types. We add that acreage up
[20:29] and we run a level of service analysis
[20:30] on that. And that's just a ratio of park
[20:33] acres per thousand residents. So, you
[20:35] have all these other amenities. you have
[20:37] the cemetery rodeo grounds and a lot of
[20:39] open space, but that doesn't necessarily
[20:41] fit into the traditional park category.
[20:42] And we kind of focus on those because
[20:44] that helps us compare um to other
[20:46] communities and just be a little more
[20:48] consistent with our analysis.
[20:52] And so right now um your existing park
[20:54] acres um are at 77.1 and divided by your
[21:00] current population times a thousand that
[21:01] puts you at 7.3 park acres per thousand
[21:04] residents.
[21:06] And people always want to know how do we
[21:08] compare and you guys are sitting really
[21:10] high compared to other communities in
[21:12] the region. This is one of the highest
[21:13] that that I've seen in my work in parks.
[21:16] Um so you're doing really well for a
[21:18] small community.
[21:21] Um and then when we look out into the
[21:23] future, if you don't develop any
[21:25] additional parkland, by 2035, your LOS
[21:29] will drop to 7.2, which is still great.
[21:32] And by 2050, it'll still be at 6.8. So
[21:34] you'll you would still be kind of at the
[21:37] top range of that. Um and the imp
[21:41] implications for future park acreage. Um
[21:44] so if we maintained that 7.3 park acres
[21:47] per thousand people moving forward uh by
[21:49] 2035 you would need one and a half
[21:51] additional acres of parkland. And then
[21:53] by 2050 you would need five additional
[21:55] acres on top of that. So this is a lot
[21:58] smaller than we see in other communities
[22:00] too. And it's really been fun to see how
[22:01] unique Alpine is with a lot of these characteristics and figuring out
[22:05] how we're going to move forward for such
[22:07] a unique community.
[22:10] And I think that's one of the things
[22:11] that we want to get input on from
[22:12] council tonight is where you feel
[22:14] comfortable moving forward in the future
[22:17] because we can set that um LOS wherever
[22:20] we want to. You can be some communities
[22:22] want to be aspirational and you know set
[22:24] it really high like St. George, they
[22:26] just target because they want to be
[22:27] recreation destination. And we heard
[22:28] from the community, that's not what we
[22:30] want. We want just our, you know, quiet,
[22:32] enjoyable community. Um, and your LOS is
[22:35] so high right now that it's okay if we
[22:38] set a lower number and you would still
[22:39] be serving your residents well. So, um,
[22:42] Shane wanted to make sure we brought
[22:43] that for you tonight before you so that
[22:46] we can kind of get your guidance on
[22:47] that. Um, and then I can just talk about
[22:49] distribution real quick and then we can
[22:52] follow up on that. Uh, so we just map
[22:54] your existing parks and open space,
[22:56] making sure we had updated information
[22:57] on where all that is. And then we do a
[23:00] um distancebased
[23:02] kind of a walk time analysis and a
[23:04] distance space analysis to see where
[23:06] residential areas fall in relationship
[23:08] to parks. And you can see here that
[23:10] purple indicates the 10-minute walk
[23:12] shed. Um, the darker yellow is existing
[23:15] residential and the lighter yellow is
[23:17] potential future residential. So that
[23:19] shows that your core is really well
[23:21] served within a 10-minute walk.
[23:24] And then if we do a distancebased
[23:26] service area, this is where we assign a
[23:29] different radius to different park
[23:30] types. And that's kind of assigned based
[23:31] on the number of amenities and the
[23:32] quality of amenities, park size. So
[23:35] people are more willing to drive to a
[23:37] community park because it's larger. It
[23:39] has more amenities. So we give that a
[23:41] onem service area. Uh neighborhood parks
[23:43] receive a half mile service area and
[23:45] then local parks receive a quarter mile
[23:47] service area. So, you can see it kind of
[23:49] bumps out those service areas, you know,
[23:52] residents that can access parks, not
[23:54] necessarily within that 10-minute walk
[23:56] time, but within the drive time.
[24:03] So, that's kind of the quick and version
[24:06] of what we're finding so far and and
[24:08] what we'll be addressing as we move
[24:09] forward.
[24:12] >> Yeah. So, we were pretty happy to see
[24:14] the the ratio of, you know, parks, acres
[24:18] of parks to our residents that we have
[24:21] here. Um, but that is something that we
[24:23] need some direction on. Um, you know, if
[24:26] we if we're okay to go down to 6.8 and
[24:29] what was it, 2050, Lisa? Um, that's
[24:33] something we need to know if because if 7.2 two is our level of service that
[24:40] we want to maintain, then we'll need to
[24:43] build money into the impact fees and and
[24:46] the plan to acquire property.
[24:50] Um, and so it changes things quite a
[24:52] bit. So that's that's why we need
[24:55] direction on that.
[24:58] >> Um, you kind of partner that too with
[25:00] when you do acquire parkland, you want
[25:02] to also try to acquire it in those gap
[25:04] areas if you do need additional park. So
[25:07] that's another factor you can look at.
[25:09] >> So one,
[25:12] if you're okay, you want to just go
[25:13] ahead and start. I'll just start with my
[25:15] initial impressions. Thank you so much.
[25:16] That was very informative. I read it
[25:17] beforehand, but it helps to have you
[25:18] explain it and and go through it with us as well. Um it's very glad to
[25:24] see also that we're on the high end of
[25:26] the park acreage per per resident. uh
[25:32] and you don't you don't even count
[25:33] Lambert Park and you saw how important
[25:36] the trails use was to our alpine
[25:38] residents and so when you consider our
[25:41] open space parks and including Beexil
[25:44] Park to the south, Lambert Park, Three
[25:46] Falls Park open space I should say, um
[25:50] there's a lot more public amenities for
[25:52] what Alpine residents are looking for.
[25:55] Another consideration is the cost of
[25:57] real estate in Alpine and that would be
[26:00] definitely a consideration. I I hesitate
[26:02] to make decisions for 2050. That's a
[26:04] long I I probably won't be around in
[26:06] 2050.
[26:07] >> Hopefully I will be still, but not not
[26:09] on the city council. That's guaranteed
[26:11] still. Um,
[26:14] but for me it seems like at least in the
[26:17] near future, the b the bang for the buck
[26:19] is to improve our parks, especially some
[26:22] areas that have been identified as as
[26:24] having needs like the Creek Side Park
[26:26] playground and some improvements to a
[26:28] few other regional parks. The other
[26:30] question I have for our staff is as some
[26:34] of these we saw on the slide the
[26:35] undeveloped property potential developed
[26:37] property in the future. What is the
[26:39] possibility of doing planned residential
[26:41] developments and having rather than just
[26:44] trails or open space, having land owners
[26:47] designate areas for for regional parks
[26:50] or local parks so we can meet some of
[26:52] those needs in the more faroff parts of
[26:55] our community um in exchange for higher
[26:58] density in those areas. I was just in
[27:00] Cedar Hills today driving down a street
[27:02] I don't normally drive down because they
[27:03] had a road closure and there was this
[27:05] beautiful little local park that I'd
[27:07] never seen before that would serve those
[27:09] local residents like these could.
[27:12] >> Yeah. So, one thing, one thing to just
[27:15] consider, at least in our experience
[27:17] with these local parks, we call them
[27:19] pocket parks a lot, um, is they're quite
[27:24] a bit more expensive to maintain because
[27:27] they're so small and they just take, you
[27:29] know, the time to unload equipment to
[27:31] mow a half acre, an acre, whatever.
[27:34] That's just something to consider. And I
[27:36] think a lot of them
[27:38] aren't used very heavily, even by the
[27:40] local residents. Um, I I think of the
[27:43] Silverleaf Park that's kind of in the
[27:45] middle of that Ponderosa Maple Ridge
[27:49] Drive area. I don't know if I've ever
[27:51] seen anyone out there. And I'm, you
[27:53] know, obviously I'm not out there every
[27:55] day, but that's even a larger parcel.
[27:59] Um, but we we mow it twice a week. We
[28:02] fix sprinklers and everything. And it
[28:04] just I don't think it sees the use. And
[28:07] granted, there's not like a nice
[28:09] playground there or a pavilion or
[28:11] anything. There's no parking except on
[28:13] the street. But I think those are things
[28:16] that
[28:17] should be considered um when looking at
[28:21] these. Uh another example that's kind of
[28:23] on the other end that has amenities is
[28:25] Annie Park. It's the newest one we have
[28:27] in the city. It's got a parking lot. It
[28:30] has a restroom. It has a playground.
[28:33] I'm not sure it gets used very much
[28:35] either. And maybe it needs more time to
[28:37] be discovered. It's probably
[28:39] >> What was that one called in?
[28:40] >> It's called Annie Park.
[28:41] >> Annie Park. Where's that at?
[28:42] >> It's up in the Rigid Alpine.
[28:44] >> Oh, okay.
[28:44] >> It's kind of at the end of a culde-sac.
[28:47] Um, but it it also serves as a detention
[28:51] basin. Um, but it's a nice little park
[28:56] and I'm I'm not sure how much it gets
[28:58] used, but you know, compared to Burgess
[29:01] and all the people and Creekide that you
[29:03] see walking the asphalt trails and all
[29:05] those things, but just something to
[29:08] consider um when making those decisions.
[29:11] >> So, the other thing is even if we don't
[29:13] acquire any more land or create any more
[29:15] parks, we're still going to be head and
[29:18] shoulders above most communities in the
[29:20] area.
[29:20] >> Yeah. So my I think my preference at
[29:23] least for the next several years would
[29:25] be to work towards making those
[29:28] improvements that we've talked about
[29:29] with Creekide Peterson Park in
[29:32] conjunction with conjunction with the uh
[29:35] Canyon Crest improvements that are
[29:36] upcoming.
[29:40] » Yes, I I agree with that. I think top
[29:42] priority would just be to maintain the
[29:43] ones that we have and upgrade them. And
[29:46] that was another question. Is that
[29:47] something that was is within the scope
[29:50] of what you plan to do is kind of
[29:52] recommend upgrades for various parks or
[29:55] is this just a preliminary kind of
[29:57] giving us some of the resident feedback
[30:00] data? So this is a high level look
[30:02] systemwide but we are going because it's
[30:05] such a unique plan and a unique
[30:07] community we are going park by perk and
[30:09] providing a list of recommendations and
[30:11] some of these the next step is going to
[30:13] be to develop a master plan because we
[30:15] could say you should do this and this but that may not necessarily be
[30:19] what the community wants to see like you
[30:21] know of those special amenities what
[30:22] really makes sense for location within
[30:24] the community and you know that isn't
[30:26] the role of this plan to do that is to
[30:28] say what the community wants what you
[30:29] need um and kind of give you a sense
[30:32] what the community is interested in. But
[30:33] we we definitely want to see that
[30:35] community process happen when we design
[30:36] those parks out.
[30:38] >> No, I love that. I love getting the
[30:39] community input. I came to that night
[30:41] did the little pom poms. It was great.
[30:44] Um I think if if there is an OP so that
[30:46] would be my top priority is maintaining
[30:48] the current parks that we have and then
[30:50] perhaps if if for some reason land
[30:53] adjacent to a current park like I don't
[30:55] know Peterson Park or something like
[30:57] that becomes available, you know, that
[30:58] might be something to consider. But, um,
[31:00] as far as like acquiring land for new
[31:03] parks, unless it's part of a PRD, I I
[31:05] don't I don't know. I mean, a level of
[31:08] service, I mean, we're pretty high. So,
[31:12] I mean, even within 50 years, we'd be
[31:15] around six, I think, is what I saw. And
[31:18] that's still pretty high compared to
[31:19] other cities. So, I would prefer to just
[31:23] spend the funds keeping um taking care
[31:26] of what we currently have.
[31:28] Um and then I just had one other
[31:30] question like how do you determine what
[31:31] is considered a community, neighborhood
[31:33] or local park? Like what are the
[31:35] definitions of each of those? How do you
[31:37] classify those?
[31:38] >> Yeah, so typically a community park is
[31:40] 10 to 30 acres. Um and so we kind of
[31:44] take look at it through the lens of
[31:45] acreage to start with and also
[31:46] amenities. you know, park may have may
[31:48] meet it acreage wise, but if there's
[31:50] nothing there, then, you know, we can
[31:52] make the determination say, well, this
[31:53] is a a neighborhood park, but you really
[31:55] need to add some amenities to help it
[31:57] qualify as that. You know, like Beexil
[31:59] Park, you know, we're looking at some
[32:01] upgrades there, but not necessarily, you
[32:04] know, changing categories or something
[32:05] like that. You know, you want to make
[32:07] the make recommendations that are kind
[32:09] of intentional for that area. Okay.
[32:11] Thank you. Um,
[32:14] and
[32:18] I'm trying to think if I had any other
[32:19] questions. Oh, um it seemed like trails
[32:22] was like a big um you got a lot of
[32:25] feedback about trails. So, when we're
[32:27] talking about level of service and we're
[32:29] talking about parks, I also think maybe
[32:33] we also need to talk about trails and
[32:36] maintaining those or maybe adding new
[32:38] trails if we're talking about adding new
[32:39] parks. Do we just maintain the current
[32:41] trails we have or are we looking at
[32:42] adding more trails? And I know we have a
[32:44] trail master plan that will kind of help
[32:46] guide us and dictate on that, but I
[32:47] don't know if you have any other insight
[32:49] on that.
[32:49] >> Yeah, in trails is a different animal.
[32:51] We we don't I mean some communities will
[32:53] look at it from a level of service
[32:54] perspective, but I don't think that's
[32:56] really appropriate. I think it's more
[32:57] about, you know, what are the community
[32:59] destinations? Where are the gaps? What,
[33:01] you know, how do people want to get
[33:02] there? What's the best way to do that?
[33:03] And so, yeah, we're we're working with
[33:05] that trails master plan and with staff
[33:06] to make sure that there's a trail
[33:08] concept in here. and um and we'll be
[33:11] showing that future network and um yeah
[33:15] and then just again addressing some of
[33:16] those upgrades that residents want to
[33:19] see. Thank you. Thanks for the
[33:21] presentation. Yeah,
[33:22] >> I did have a couple of questions. I uh I
[33:25] appreciated all the visual because I'm
[33:28] very visual so um it was easy to follow
[33:31] and I appreciate that. Um, so when just
[33:34] to follow up from Sarah's question, so I
[33:37] think if I was doing my quick math, we
[33:39] have like a thousand acres that were
[33:40] outside of the your definition to as a
[33:44] level of service. So, how do you suggest
[33:46] that we like incorporate that into some
[33:48] measurable
[33:50] um level of service? Because it is
[33:53] something that's like Sarah said, prized
[33:55] by our residents and like miles of
[33:57] trails or like some unique way to
[34:00] articulate what that looks and feels
[34:02] like to our community to sort of um
[34:07] to not under undervalue
[34:11] it in a way. Do you know what I'm
[34:12] saying? because it's not in in our I am
[34:14] a numbers person.
[34:15] >> Yeah, there's not a number to it.
[34:16] >> Yeah. So, how how would you suggest we
[34:18] do that?
[34:19] >> So, we don't typically recommend a level
[34:22] of service for open space just because
[34:24] it's acquired on such an opportunistic
[34:26] basis. Um, you know, it just you never
[34:29] know when, where, you know, what the
[34:31] opportunity is going to be to come. You
[34:32] know, like Draper City, they had an
[34:34] opportunity come up for I can't even
[34:35] remember how many, like a thousand acres
[34:37] or something, and they just went after
[34:38] it, you know. So some of those
[34:40] opportunities arise when you know maybe
[34:41] a development collapses or something
[34:43] like that. Um so
[34:44] >> what about the trails on the open space?
[34:48] >> Um so trails again it's more about the
[34:51] connections and again you know I mean
[34:54] developing all the soft and mountain
[34:56] bike trails that can be you know a
[34:59] trails committee that sort of thing that
[35:00] gets into detail on that. Um but again
[35:04] it's more um trails is just more about
[35:06] either the destinations or when it comes
[35:08] to mountain bike trails the experience
[35:10] you know or you know could we use
[35:12] connect this part of the mountain to
[35:13] that part of the mountain or working
[35:14] with surrounding communities. So it's I
[35:17] don't think it really does the plan
[35:20] justice or the community justice to
[35:21] assign a number to it. we will be
[35:23] calling out and acknowledging how many
[35:25] acres there are and you know what the
[35:27] amenities in those are and how important
[35:29] it is to the community emphasizing that
[35:32] um and and making a recommendation on
[35:34] the types of properties or types of
[35:35] opportunities and we can even include
[35:37] you know a list of tools that you can
[35:38] use to help acquire those um but we we
[35:42] try not to assign numbers to that um
[35:44] just because it's not typically how
[35:46] they're acquired and if that makes
[35:48] sense.
[35:48] >> I see. So
[35:49] >> yeah.
[35:50] >> So we like [clears throat] you know like
[35:52] we you said we like to compare ourselves
[35:54] to other cities. So we can't there's not
[35:56] really a measure in your industry that
[35:58] is uniform that we could that people
[36:01] >> we're we're so unique in the west
[36:02] because like if you look at the National
[36:04] Recreation and Parks Association they do
[36:06] general um stats for communities of
[36:09] different sizes. Okay. And for a
[36:10] community of your size, I think it it
[36:12] was kind of astronomical the number of
[36:14] park acres. But the back east, they
[36:17] don't have access to the, you know,
[36:19] hundreds and thousands of acres that we
[36:20] have adjacent to a lot of our
[36:22] communities. So, we're just different
[36:23] out here.
[36:24] >> Okay.
[36:24] >> And then when you think about parks
[36:26] level of service, it does have
[36:28] implications for, you know, your future,
[36:30] what you need to acquire. And if you
[36:32] just lump a bunch of that open space in,
[36:34] you're kind of artificially inflating
[36:36] your park's level of service.
[36:38] >> Okay.
[36:38] >> Um, if that makes sense. Yeah. No, it
[36:40] does. I just was curious um because we
[36:44] seem to be measuring only one thing and
[36:46] yet our our residents value the other
[36:48] thing. So, I didn't know how to measure
[36:50] it.
[36:51] >> Um
[36:51] >> I think we can definitely consider it
[36:53] though as
[36:53] >> Yes. No, she said she was gonna Yeah.
[36:55] You know, I like to be ranked at the
[36:58] top. Just kidding. Okay. Not not just
[37:00] kidding. Okay. Um, the other
[37:03] [clears throat] thing I was going to
[37:03] ask, um, like I've looked at the master
[37:06] plan, um, that's outdated for Alpine and
[37:09] it and it like designates like sports
[37:12] fields acres versus like leisure acres
[37:14] versus So, is that a thing of the past
[37:16] as well? Like because I didn't see that
[37:18] broken out in any way or is that still
[37:20] to come or what? So, so you bring up an
[37:23] important important point for the
[37:24] community as well because there is this
[37:26] designation of sports parks versus
[37:28] family parks and we're aware of that.
[37:30] And the way that we're working that into
[37:33] the plan is that um the parks will have
[37:37] their, you know, community neighborhood
[37:39] local park designation, but it will also
[37:41] be paired with that family park or
[37:43] sports park designation. And the plan is
[37:46] going to recommend that the city
[37:47] formalize whatever ordinances or some
[37:50] language around that so there's not the
[37:52] confusion about what's allowed and
[37:53] what's not allowed in this park and are
[37:55] we ever going to see this amenity here?
[37:56] I don't want to see a field here. You
[37:58] know, this is supposed to be a family
[37:59] park. So, the plan is going to help
[38:01] clarify that and make recommendations
[38:02] for you to move forward in a maybe a
[38:04] little stronger way that way.
[38:06] >> And is there a a measure to to say like
[38:09] sports fields per capita or anything
[38:12] like that? Um so we are actually doing
[38:14] an analysis of um so the way we look at
[38:16] amenities is population per amenity. So
[38:20] population per baseball fields
[38:21] population. So and then we're also
[38:24] looking at the distribution of those
[38:25] amenities within the city. So there's a
[38:27] lot of ways we're looking at it. We just
[38:28] didn't want to bombard you tonight with
[38:30] Okay. I I I just had that other master
[38:32] plan in my mind and there were some
[38:34] things that
[38:35] >> I just wonder where we stand to date
[38:36] because like I said it's out of date.
[38:38] Yeah.
[38:39] >> The other thing was um this is an well
[38:42] no I'll say something different. Um
[38:44] we've looked at annexation and right now
[38:47] because of the way the topography of our
[38:49] city is all the new most of the new
[38:53] places are on hills which we've learned
[38:56] is not an easy place to put a park. And
[38:58] so even though like our level of service
[39:00] may decline, I don't think we have an
[39:03] like the the opportunity to put in
[39:05] another park in a usable space.
[39:08] >> So it's it's good to have open space in
[39:10] those like you know the the the
[39:13] um hills on the east side. It seems to
[39:15] be where all our annexation potential
[39:17] is, but it's not necessarily even um the
[39:21] part that's in the county like there's a
[39:22] little center park, but there's like
[39:24] there's a there's it's like stairs going
[39:27] down like you you play at one level,
[39:29] then there's grass at another level,
[39:30] then there's a sidewalk at another
[39:31] level, and it's not really very um
[39:34] enjoyable to use the space that way. So
[39:37] I kind of So in short, if you need an
[39:40] answer, Shane, I feel like we our level
[39:42] of service to maintain it for the
[39:44] foreseeable future, which is only 2035
[39:47] because I'm not going to be here in 2050
[39:48] either. I would say just maintain our
[39:51] level of service as far as this measure
[39:53] that she's provided, and like use what
[39:56] use the resources we have to make better
[39:58] use of the space we have. And if that
[40:02] helps, one of the um I um Brent and I
[40:06] have been going from park um park play
[40:10] equipment vendor to play equipment
[40:12] vendor at every time we show up at um
[40:15] Utah League of the City of Towns
[40:16] conference. And the one clue that has
[40:18] really stood out to me, somebody, it was
[40:21] a salesperson, but they said, "You need,
[40:22] we need our play equipment to look very
[40:24] different than what our school equipment
[40:26] looks like because the kids play on that
[40:28] year, you know, school, the school year,
[40:30] the slides, the swings." So, we've been
[40:33] looking at things like what would a
[40:34] climbing wall look like or what like even an arch or what would you know
[40:38] just that type of thing. So, is there
[40:40] any distinction or in your world like
[40:43] play equipment is play equipment? Yeah,
[40:45] this is more high level and that will
[40:47] come kind of at the master planning and
[40:48] design stage for
[40:49] >> Okay, so it's too soon for that. Okay,
[40:52] well I'm almost done with my questions.
[40:54] Um,
[40:56] is there any measure in your in your um
[40:59] in your industry for the cost per
[41:02] resident or cost for level of service
[41:04] like or cost per acre or anything like
[41:07] that that we can hold a standard to? We
[41:10] can do a comparison and so we can we've
[41:13] done that before. um we can look at the
[41:15] kind of national recreation and park
[41:17] standards kind of what we're seeing for
[41:18] the average and then also some regional
[41:20] like take some benchmark comparisons for
[41:22] surrounding communities. So yeah we can definitely provide that in our
[41:26] cost chapter
[41:27] >> being an accountant we always do benefit
[41:28] cost analysis. So right so every acre is
[41:32] wonderful but what does it cost our city
[41:34] okay just to maintain what we already
[41:36] have even without growing. Okay. And
[41:39] lastly on the next steps, where are we?
[41:41] This was your first um page. Where are
[41:44] we in your little next and what's our
[41:46] next steps then?
[41:47] >> Yeah. So, we just have a few little
[41:49] items to kind of finish deciding the
[41:51] city with the city staff um settling on
[41:53] that amenities, level of service, and
[41:55] some of those items and then we are
[41:57] about ready to dive into the draft plan.
[41:59] So,
[41:59] >> okay. So, you're right here.
[42:01] >> Yeah, we're in the middle of the
[42:02] process.
[42:03] >> All right. That's was my questions.
[42:05] Thank you so much. This was great
[42:07] information. Those were good. Um,
[42:10] briefly, so uh, just so I understand,
[42:15] none of the open space is included in
[42:17] this, right? The
[42:18] >> in that level of service calculation.
[42:20] >> So that would really that would really
[42:23] boost it. I mean, that probably better
[42:25] not to do that. I'm going to make
[42:26] everyone feel sad who's [laughter] not
[42:27] living here.
[42:28] >> Well, so just out of interest, I just
[42:30] did a
[42:31] >> Okay, what did you get? What we at one
[42:32] point? We've got about eight square
[42:34] miles in the city.
[42:36] >> About 20% of the city is some type of
[42:40] open space or park.
[42:41] >> Wow. And you probably
[42:42] >> which is I think pretty high.
[42:43] >> It's phenomenal.
[42:44] >> Did you include like even the schools
[42:46] like the Timberline and
[42:49] >> were they included in the other
[42:50] candidates?
[42:51] >> So those aren't even included and those
[42:52] are very in addition.
[42:54] >> Okay. Well, this is great news.
[42:56] >> You're doing well.
[42:56] >> So what I gathered from it, it was very
[42:59] helpful. Thank you. and coming to the
[43:00] event and all that you have said, I
[43:02] pretty much right along the line with
[43:05] everything you've said on the
[43:08] prioritizing what we've got and trying
[43:10] to update them because we've got so many
[43:11] needs there. The um what I gathered from
[43:14] it, correct me if I'm wrong, was kind of
[43:17] number one and number two was connecting
[43:21] trails and upgrading the playground
[43:24] equipment. So, that's what I gathered
[43:25] from it. Yeah,
[43:26] >> I hear this daily from my wife mad at me
[43:30] about the playground equipment. Yeah,
[43:32] >> but uh so I asked her to reach out to a
[43:34] lot of ladies because most of them
[43:35] wanted for kids
[43:37] >> or most of them are younger and they
[43:38] have kids and they they all say the same
[43:40] thing. They want the playground
[43:41] equipment updated.
[43:43] >> Um so that's what they all say. I've so
[43:46] I've been hearing that a lot.
[43:47] >> Yeah.
[43:48] >> Um
[43:49] the uh Yeah. Um,
[43:54] so that comes soon, right? That comes
[43:56] soon when we actually uh get into that
[43:59] specific stuff like you were saying that
[44:02] comes in the parks master plan, right?
[44:04] >> As far as
[44:05] >> what we're prioritizing.
[44:07] >> Yes. Well, that the plan will
[44:08] definitely, you know, give a list of
[44:10] priorities. Yeah, I I'm with them on the
[44:13] taking the what we've got and the large
[44:15] amount of open space and trying to like
[44:17] really care for it
[44:19] >> uh versus acquiring land for more parks.
[44:22] Maybe some land I know could potentially
[44:25] be used for other things. But if you
[44:28] find like a really great opportunity
[44:29] like what she brought up, obviously
[44:31] don't hold it back because the community
[44:33] might want it.
[44:34] >> Like a donation. This was the last
[44:36] thing. the parks I've been going to in
[44:38] Highland. This is why I tell people um
[44:41] they say, "Wait, did you want to say
[44:42] something?" You can if you want.
[44:43] >> No, you finish.
[44:44] >> Oh, I thought you uh the the um How was
[44:48] my train of thought? Oh. Oh, Jessica
[44:50] says it all the time. I think it's
[44:51] really good. People ask, "What's what
[44:52] what's the deal with all your parks?"
[44:53] Well, we're one of the rare people where
[44:55] like the mountains, the nature is our
[44:57] park. So, we we we have that as our
[44:59] park. Um, that's what I usually tell
[45:01] people when people are asking for all
[45:03] the upgrades
[45:04] >> or a rec center. You say that's what I
[45:06] say.
[45:08] >> It is true because not I mean walking a
[45:11] dirt trail I took it for granted growing
[45:14] up here but now I'm like wow this trail
[45:16] I start adding up how much it's worth
[45:18] like mentally but also financially. It's
[45:21] just so valuable. It's like our park is
[45:24] like nature. Um, so I try to get them up
[45:26] to the mountains. But anyways, I had So, when Highland or um,
[45:32] uh, Pleasant Grove build these
[45:33] magnificent parks, I mean, they're
[45:35] amazing. We go to them, I thank them for
[45:37] it, and I say, "Thank you for letting us
[45:38] come and use it." One thing just to pass
[45:41] on that I've been noticing is that
[45:43] they're generally donated by one of the
[45:45] residents. There's a big donation factor
[45:48] to it where it's the Cook Family Park.
[45:51] That's an example, and they come in. So
[45:53] anyways, just I found that very
[45:55] compelling as a way that ourselves can
[45:59] donate and create if there is something.
[46:01] It doesn't all have to come from the
[46:02] city. We can I mean they're really
[46:03] great. I don't know if you've seen them.
[46:05] Uh we can donate to these upgrades as
[46:08] well. So that's all I had. Thanks for
[46:09] everything.
[46:10] >> Thank you Shane.
[46:12] >> So I think just to clarify, so currently
[46:14] we're at that 7.2. If we maintain that, means we have to add acreage. So I
[46:21] think the question is
[46:22] >> Lisa can correct me if I'm wrong but are
[46:25] we willing to allow that
[46:28] >> it kind of build out or around 2050 to
[46:30] drop to that 6.8 or do we want to be the
[46:34] high number or somewhere in between. I
[46:37] think it just makes a difference on the
[46:39] approach from here forward.
[46:41] >> So sorry I wasn't clear um and probably
[46:42] everyone can go I'm okay with 6.8 eight
[46:45] for now given that that's still beyond
[46:47] number one of any city and I think we
[46:50] have so much to take care of but if a
[46:52] great opportunity comes obviously don't
[46:54] hold back
[46:54] >> and that's based on acres so there can
[46:56] still be improvements to some of that
[46:58] land that would make it feel like you
[47:00] added
[47:01] >> right more
[47:02] >> use usable park
[47:03] >> I'm also okay with the 6.8 I just
[47:06] getting a feel for the residents. I feel
[47:07] like they would prefer some upgrades and
[47:10] rather than more space. I will say
[47:13] though, I'm never opposed to more
[47:16] trails. So, I know that doesn't count
[47:18] with our level of service, but I do feel
[47:21] like a lot of people utilize them a lot.
[47:23] And so,
[47:26] >> yes, and I agree with Sarah.
[47:28] >> Absolutely. And given that the open
[47:30] space is not even in the seven
[47:32] calculation, I feel like we we are
[47:34] somewhat under reppresented about how
[47:36] much land as you pointed out 20% that
[47:39] the city is responsible to maintain and
[47:42] all of those things. So I feel like uh
[47:46] this re retaining what we already have
[47:49] is already understating what we do
[47:52] really have anyway. So I'm I'm in
[47:54] agreement.
[47:55] >> Yeah. And I I'll just take the
[47:57] opportunity right now since we're
[47:59] talking about trails a little bit. So
[48:01] our our city employees maintain the
[48:04] asphalt trails in the city. We really
[48:07] don't spend time uh maintaining gravel
[48:11] trails. It's it's our trails committee.
[48:14] And so if that ever goes away, that
[48:16] volunteer help and them organizing
[48:18] groups to help with that, it's it's
[48:22] going to mean more staff to be able to
[48:24] cover it. So I think anything we can do
[48:27] to support and encourage them is
[48:30] fantastic. U they've just flat done an
[48:33] awesome job with it. Occasionally like
[48:35] on a big you know once or twice a year
[48:38] project they'll say hey we need
[48:40] materials to replace a bridge or you
[48:43] know we need a gra a dump truck load of
[48:45] gravel here or there. you know, we do
[48:48] parking lots and stuff like that, but on
[48:49] the trails themselves, it's fairly
[48:51] infrequent that our staff uh is involved
[48:56] there. So,
[48:59] >> all right. So, is the direction clear to
[49:01] you?
[49:01] >> Yeah.
[49:01] it is.
[49:02] >> Yep.
[49:02] >> I still recommend you get Jessica's
[49:04] input. [snorts] Um,
[49:06] >> thank you very much.
[49:07] >> Thank you. And if someone like the
[49:10] Healey family which donated, you know,
[49:12] church space, park, road, if uh well, if
[49:16] they if families do come, obviously we
[49:18] wouldn't want to turn it down
[49:21] >> like that.
[49:22] >> No, I mean, you know, some of those open
[49:25] spaces, you know, came through
[49:27] development requirements, you know,
[49:29] PRDS, minimum 25% open space and
[49:31] different things like that. But um yeah,
[49:34] for sure if a donation comes along, it
[49:36] will be brought before the city council.
[49:38] Okay. So,
[49:41] >> all right. Thank you very much. We'll
[49:42] move on to item B in reports and
[49:45] presentations, the sculpture garden
[49:47] report by Bob Hansen. Do you have
[49:49] anything to introduce, Shane?
[49:52] >> Uh no. Um I know these guys are working
[49:55] on their plan. Uh we had a brief meeting
[49:58] on Monday just for an update and and I
[50:02] mentioned a few things uh to Bob that
[50:05] you probably should bring up tonight.
[50:07] Make sure everybody's on the same page
[50:08] and we'll just turn the time over to him
[50:10] for his report.
[50:11] >> Thank you. Bob Hansen. I'm a resident of
[50:15] American Fork. I apologize.
[50:19] [clears throat]
[50:19] >> How are their parks? Where where were
[50:22] they on this? Just kidding. [laughter]
[50:24] >> Yeah. Well, so, um, I hope that you had
[50:28] some time to look briefly over the the
[50:30] slides. It's really just kind of a nice
[50:32] update, right? Um, we're looking at
[50:35] bringing some things before the city
[50:37] council at the August 25th meeting for
[50:40] your consideration for vote. Um, but,
[50:43] uh, we did want to share with you. So,
[50:44] tonight just kind of a quick update on
[50:47] some of the design elements. um
[50:50] validating, verifying some of the
[50:52] decisions that have been made up to this
[50:54] point and then um identify those items
[50:58] specifically that we'll be bringing in
[50:59] August. Right. Um I will say that we
[51:03] have the planting plan. Yay. Uh very
[51:07] excited about this. Um this is uh this
[51:11] has been very important, but it's uh
[51:13] it's been kind of difficult to get. And
[51:17] uh we'll have this uh for you for
[51:20] consideration next month. Um and you'll
[51:23] have you know plenty of time to kind of
[51:24] look that over, but we have the plan
[51:27] itself. Um now we did want to kind of
[51:30] update you on the gazebo um element and
[51:33] so uh Tom and Gail have both agreed to
[51:36] come and share some updates to that and
[51:39] like to turn some time over to them.
[51:42] >> All right, we got some good stuff.
[51:46] kind of visual treats.
[51:47] >> Visual Yeah.
[51:50] Tom Holdman and Gail uh uh uh uh
[51:55] residents here as well. So, okay. So we
[52:00] have dove into
[52:03] Alpine and it's been wonderful to learn
[52:07] more about the history and how like what
[52:10] I heard once that we are uh we are we are the warm like by
[52:24] fires we did not start and we drink from
[52:28] wells we did not dig. big and that has
[52:31] meant a lot to me in in this research,
[52:34] but also well like we also like like do
[52:38] that for those which they'll come after
[52:40] us. And so that was our our our theme
[52:45] here too as well. And so this right here
[52:48] it shows how to show passage of
[52:54] time. You know how this
[52:59] ity will
[53:04] endure and so like we show here aer
[53:11] calendar here so like was like using
[53:13] like light how to how to tell time and
[53:18] so that shows that and that's and then I
[53:22] have
[53:24] um
[53:27] a
[53:29] acquired. Uh uh uh uh uh
[53:40] so like uh uh
[53:46] ends you know to make it work. So and
[53:49] then also on our stories and so these
[53:54] have ebbed and flowed here but though to
[53:59] explain these like do you want to
[54:01] explain how many women
[54:02] >> I'll just give you a quick overview as
[54:04] to kind of how we decided to go the
[54:06] direction that we did. The first thing
[54:08] that you'll notice is that the design
[54:09] style itself is a little bit of the
[54:11] Rockwellian
[54:13] uh narrative style and we did that for a
[54:15] few reasons. one of which is that
[54:17] particular illustrative style tends to
[54:19] immediately evoke a sense of nostalgia
[54:22] as well as a sense of safety and trust
[54:24] and community. So that's the first thing
[54:26] and if you're looking at that Rockwell
[54:27] type style um it has generally very
[54:32] important uh central figures and then it
[54:34] plays with the light and contrast quite
[54:36] a bit. And so we have that and then the
[54:38] color scheme. Um we use the whole color
[54:41] of the rainbow there, but we you have
[54:44] different types of hues within all of
[54:47] those um colors. And we decided to use
[54:49] if you wanted to look at it as seasons,
[54:51] it would be late summer kind of early
[54:53] fall feeling of those colors. So they're
[54:55] the warmer ones. And that gives the
[54:57] sense of the warmth of the community. It
[54:59] also gives that sense of, you know,
[55:01] excitement that summer brings. but also
[55:03] as it starts to wind down and you're
[55:04] going into the harvest, you're going to
[55:06] be able to benefit from all of the
[55:07] things and all of the work that you did
[55:09] before that moment. And so we chose that
[55:12] range of colors to also give that sense
[55:14] of warmth. And then we did a bit of
[55:17] research as Tom talked about, but we've
[55:18] also spoken with some of the council
[55:20] members and the heritage arts committee
[55:23] to talk about the things that were
[55:25] important. And we decided that we would
[55:26] focus on making sure that all of these
[55:29] together had a representation of men,
[55:32] women, and children. And so we took some
[55:34] of the stories that are a little more
[55:35] well-known and put those in that
[55:37] foreground, that focal point, but then
[55:39] we would surround it by other elements
[55:42] that were um maybe not as wellknown or
[55:46] elements that are a little bit vague so
[55:48] that the viewer can picture themselves
[55:51] within that. And on on top of that, we
[55:55] chose to include some of the iconic
[55:57] architecture from the history of Alpine.
[56:01] And when you look at those, they do seem
[56:02] very large, maybe like overwhelmingly
[56:05] large, but you have to remember they
[56:07] will be above you. And any artwork or
[56:09] any vision that is above you ends up
[56:11] looking smaller simply because you are
[56:13] beneath it in the perspective.
[56:16] >> Oh yeah.
[56:16] >> Yeah. There you go. They want to be able
[56:18] to see it.
[56:18] >> Well, it's like full size right here.
[56:20] Well, like helps helps so you see it,
[56:23] you know, to get that impact, right? And
[56:27] so that story of of of
[56:33] the like depression where all they got
[56:36] was an orange, but that orange though
[56:38] like for the winter time was amazing.
[56:40] And that the
[56:44] candy and just everyone
[56:47] has a beautiful explanation about how
[56:54] beautiful Alpine is, but also what will
[56:57] you do with it? You know, where like
[57:00] where does like your stewardship, how do
[57:03] you add? And so we though even talk
[57:06] about the indigenous
[57:09] like people also as well. If a picture
[57:14] is worth a thousand words then all of
[57:18] these pictures is worth a million words.
[57:21] So ultimately all of them together are
[57:23] intended to create a sense of education
[57:26] for the individual to be able to learn
[57:28] about the environment they came from but
[57:30] also to instill in them a sense of
[57:32] gratitude and appreciation for what has
[57:35] been and for what is and then ultimately
[57:38] to inspire what they can do to
[57:40] contribute. And so each of these panels
[57:42] has a title to it as well that features
[57:45] some of the values that Alpine holds
[57:47] dear. the ones that have made it what it
[57:48] is and the ones that if continued on
[57:51] will only continue to make it um more
[57:54] connected as a community, more unifying,
[57:58] more comfortable, peaceful and blessed
[58:00] place for everyone who is able to
[58:02] interact with it.
[58:04] >> Thank you.
[58:05] >> Do you have any questions?
[58:07] [applause]
[58:17] The rest of this I'm going to try to go
[58:19] quickly. Um there has been lots of
[58:22] discussion about um the sculptures and
[58:26] where they might be placed and which
[58:28] sculptures we're considering using,
[58:30] right? Um and so this uh slide attempts
[58:34] to do that. These names are names of
[58:36] sculptures. The next slide actually
[58:40] shows what those look like. Okay. Um and
[58:45] uh you probably should have broken this
[58:47] up over a couple of slides and just
[58:49] stuck them. It's a little tricky, but um
[58:52] it's going to be beautiful. Some of
[58:53] this, some of these are different sizes.
[58:56] And so, uh, while it might feel like 13
[58:59] or 14, um, is kind of a lot for the
[59:02] space that we're talking about, um,
[59:04] there's going to be some where they're
[59:07] climbing on a wall. Um, less, you know,
[59:11] kind of cluttered, um, and and stuffy
[59:14] feeling. So, um, very, uh, appropriate,
[59:19] I think. And um we've got uh FFKR
[59:23] architects that are um almost finished
[59:26] with a 3D virtual tour that incorporates
[59:30] all of this. So you really get a sense
[59:32] before it's there, right? Um yeah. And
[59:35] so if we go to that next graphic
[59:38] dashboard, um that's just kind of a
[59:40] quick at a glance what's done and where
[59:43] does everything else kind of rest. We'll go to the next slide and I just
[59:49] want to share with you that you know the
[59:50] discussion that you had about donations.
[59:53] Um I spent a lot of time with the Cook
[59:56] family and Pleasant Grove project
[59:58] specifically. Um great um ideas. Uh the
[1:00:02] former mayor of Highland uh would would
[1:00:05] meet with families and invite donations
[1:00:08] to help with different things like this.
[1:00:10] And so this is uh just for everybody's
[1:00:13] benefit um no tax dollars are going
[1:00:16] towards the creation of this park,
[1:00:18] right? It's all privately funded. Um and
[1:00:21] so that's an important thing. And right
[1:00:22] now uh 1.5 million is pending. Uh the
[1:00:27] family received a proposal um asked for
[1:00:30] a proposal. uh we asked for the amount
[1:00:33] and we asked for um them to help not
[1:00:36] only with that commitment but would they
[1:00:38] help with another 1.5 from among their
[1:00:41] network and so they've asked for a
[1:00:44] meeting next week to finalize their
[1:00:46] commitment. Um so things are moving in a
[1:00:48] very positive direction there. Um and
[1:00:51] the next slide kind of talks to some of
[1:00:54] that timeline you know where we are and
[1:00:56] where we need to go. Um our plan as of
[1:01:00] this date is uh to unveil the park, the
[1:01:04] garden um at Alpine Days this next year.
[1:01:08] Um there's a lot that has to happen and
[1:01:10] there's a lot of things that are
[1:01:11] dependent on that. Um but uh and one of
[1:01:14] those we'll we'll talk about probably
[1:01:16] here in just a moment. Um the next slide
[1:01:20] is really the one that is kind of a
[1:01:22] heads up for next month. All right. um a
[1:01:25] planting plan that you'll have an
[1:01:28] opportunity to review and comment. The
[1:01:30] irrigation that goes with it, the the
[1:01:32] sprinklers, the lighting, the gazebo
[1:01:34] design and construction, the naming
[1:01:36] opportunities has already been um
[1:01:39] approved, but uh that policy um at the
[1:01:43] time only focused on statues. Um and
[1:01:47] since we've got a gazebo, there's um
[1:01:50] other opportunities that we want to make
[1:01:52] sure that that plan um that policy makes
[1:01:55] sense. So um that's that's really our
[1:01:59] report and um
[1:02:02] very excited and delighted about how
[1:02:03] things are progressing.
[1:02:07] Thank you very much. Do you want to
[1:02:08] entertain questions? You have any
[1:02:10] questions or thoughts much?
[1:02:13] >> No. Um, it's just I think it's very
[1:02:16] beautiful and this will be a great thing
[1:02:18] for our community to have and so I'm
[1:02:21] grateful. Thank you for all your work
[1:02:22] you've done on this.
[1:02:25] Um, as you know, I've been with with uh
[1:02:29] with them from the beginning. So, I
[1:02:31] would you mind going back to page six,
[1:02:33] Kaden?
[1:02:35] Um, this has really evolved. It's so
[1:02:38] exciting to see our own resident who um
[1:02:41] has so much artistic skill lend his his imagination to what can be. And um
[1:02:49] this particular garden space has evolved
[1:02:52] over time. But one point I just want to
[1:02:54] make while we're all sitting in this
[1:02:55] room is um per my request and they've honored it is that we're going
[1:03:00] to have something to look out through
[1:03:02] this window.
[1:03:02] >> Yes. So that we're not in the winter or
[1:03:05] maybe for those that don't wander out to
[1:03:07] the park or just come to visit Alpine
[1:03:09] like they can actually see some of the
[1:03:12] sculpture garden right from the inside
[1:03:13] of these council chambers. And then also
[1:03:16] when we were designing the um civic
[1:03:19] center so sorry the fountain lines up I
[1:03:22] believe after talking to the landscape
[1:03:24] designer. So one right there one and
[1:03:26] four line up with this window. I I'm
[1:03:28] pretty sure that's what we really close
[1:03:31] to that at least. And then the number
[1:03:33] nine right there, you can see there's a
[1:03:35] pathway directly from the civic
[1:03:37] building. So there is a a door, right,
[1:03:40] Shane, that stayed in the plan.
[1:03:42] >> Yes.
[1:03:43] >> Oh, good. Okay. Anyways, so that as we
[1:03:46] gather as a community in that new part
[1:03:48] of our fire station that there is a
[1:03:51] direct access into the sculpture garden.
[1:03:54] And um so those are the two things that
[1:03:57] I wanted to share that um were important
[1:04:00] just because we want this to be all
[1:04:02] seasons, all all ability, you know, just
[1:04:05] if that's our seniors in there, they um
[1:04:07] have access to the gardens and stuff
[1:04:09] like that. So that was part of it.
[1:04:12] >> You know, the the one thing that I
[1:04:14] probably should mention that that we
[1:04:16] discussed on Monday, um there is uh uh
[1:04:19] some addendum slides to this. Um if you
[1:04:23] go to
[1:04:25] let's see
[1:04:28] okay so right here it shows uh the
[1:04:32] shrubs right that are going to be taken
[1:04:35] out in black. You keep going down
[1:04:40] that purple shows the trees. This is where I want to kind of pause
[1:04:45] for a moment. Um this has already gone
[1:04:48] through um the planning commission. it
[1:04:51] came back and was approved by the city
[1:04:53] council, but um I know that there has
[1:04:56] been some concern about the three trees
[1:05:00] that are currently out here in in this
[1:05:02] circular area. Um and um you know uh our goal, our wish is um while we we
[1:05:12] really don't want to disrupt things that
[1:05:15] don't need to be disrupted, uh if those
[1:05:18] trees stay there, we have to kind of go
[1:05:20] back to the drawing board with the
[1:05:22] design elements because of the gazebo.
[1:05:25] Okay? If it weren't for the gazebo,
[1:05:29] um then maybe we could be a little more
[1:05:32] flexible. but that has emerged to be a
[1:05:36] quite a crucial element to this project
[1:05:39] that I think would be a travesty to to
[1:05:41] lose. So, um I just wanted to make sure
[1:05:45] that that was kind of well understood.
[1:05:47] >> Okay.
[1:05:48] >> And and I wanted to make sure the
[1:05:49] council understands that 25 plus year
[1:05:52] old trees would go like the way it was
[1:05:55] described to us yesterday. It basically
[1:05:58] would wipe the slate clean. everything
[1:06:00] that's there would go. So, there's a red uh a Canada red choke
[1:06:07] cherry tree right here that we saved
[1:06:11] with the fire station project that would
[1:06:13] go the three big trees by this circular
[1:06:16] concrete. And they're they're probably
[1:06:19] 15 18 inch
[1:06:22] uh caliper trees. And it takes a long
[1:06:25] time to get shade. And a lot of people
[1:06:28] go sit under those trees during the day.
[1:06:31] So
[1:06:32] >> yeah, they would have to sit under the
[1:06:33] gazebo,
[1:06:36] » which it's it's up to council, but I
[1:06:39] want to make it very very clear what
[1:06:42] this particular plan would do to the to
[1:06:45] the existing landscape.
[1:06:48] Um, I think taking the bushes and stuff
[1:06:51] out make will make things look better.
[1:06:55] Uh, I don't know if you knew, we had to
[1:06:57] take some bushes out between the rally
[1:06:59] call and the fire station parking lot.
[1:07:02] >> It totally changed the look out there. I
[1:07:04] think it looks 100 times better with
[1:07:06] those gone, but I think the loss of the
[1:07:10] trees might not have the same effect,
[1:07:13] but it's it's a council decision on
[1:07:15] that.
[1:07:17] >> And when is that decision to be made? I
[1:07:20] think it needs to be very soon because
[1:07:22] these guys are moving forward with a
[1:07:24] plan. Um
[1:07:26] >> and to be clear, the decision was
[1:07:28] already made. This would have to go back
[1:07:30] and change that from the um planning
[1:07:33] commission.
[1:07:34] >> I don't know if it was specifically said
[1:07:36] that these big trees would be taken out.
[1:07:39] There was a plan.
[1:07:40] >> This was the slide that was
[1:07:41] >> there was a slide, but was it
[1:07:42] specifically mentioned and made very
[1:07:44] clear? I I don't remember if it was.
[1:07:48] >> Well, what was made clear? They we
[1:07:50] outlined the entire space and said this
[1:07:52] is yours to design. So we didn't point
[1:07:55] out keep this, keep that. So maybe that
[1:07:58] was
[1:07:59] >> Yeah. not clear to everybody because we
[1:08:01] didn't say one way or the other, but it
[1:08:03] was
[1:08:03] >> Yeah.
[1:08:04] >> It was a complete like blackout of the
[1:08:06] space.
[1:08:07] >> So at one time we were considering the
[1:08:09] driveway going into the fire station
[1:08:11] coming from Center Street. And the
[1:08:13] discussion then is if that happened that
[1:08:15] we need to plan around the trees and so
[1:08:19] That was
[1:08:19] >> anyway
[1:08:21] wondered if it was something that was
[1:08:22] overlooked or I basically I want to make
[1:08:25] sure you guys understand.
[1:08:28] >> Well, I'll I'll just
[1:08:31] >> Wait, have you as Andrew?
[1:08:33] >> Oh, you can keep discussing this. I'll
[1:08:34] just I'll just share my thoughts in
[1:08:36] general. I I agree with what Chrissy and
[1:08:38] Sarah said. This is beautiful. It's
[1:08:39] amazing. You're talented. I wish I had a
[1:08:41] centilla of your talent. Um
[1:08:45] this is this is awesome. I I really
[1:08:46] think this is going to be a huge
[1:08:47] improvement. You know, you say that
[1:08:49] people come and use a shade. That's
[1:08:51] great. We have a park across the street.
[1:08:53] Um I think this is a very underutilized
[1:08:56] part of our city center, city block, and
[1:08:59] if we can have this in conjunction with
[1:09:01] our beautiful new fire station and
[1:09:03] community center, I think this would add
[1:09:05] tremendously to the value of this area
[1:09:07] for our Alpine residents. So, I'd be
[1:09:10] okay with with um getting rid of those
[1:09:12] trees to have this be a more useful,
[1:09:15] beautiful area for Alpine to enjoy.
[1:09:18] >> Would it be possible to go back to the
[1:09:20] slide that has like the landscape plan
[1:09:22] because I believe that there were some
[1:09:24] other additional trees?
[1:09:26] >> Yeah.
[1:09:27] >> Okay. So, all around the east and south
[1:09:30] side would all be new trees.
[1:09:31] >> Yeah.
[1:09:32] >> And does it give any indication as what
[1:09:35] type of trees those would be?
[1:09:36] >> They are. Um it it's hard to see but
[1:09:39] there is that planting plan.
[1:09:42] >> It's like on the second slide right
[1:09:43] there
[1:09:45] minuscu Sorry about that because because
[1:09:47] we weren't seeking approval tonight um I
[1:09:50] didn't make it super clear there but um
[1:09:54] I could send a PDF that has lots of
[1:09:57] detail that goes with that. Um, I I
[1:10:00] guess my conclusion with regards to the
[1:10:02] trees is
[1:10:03] >> if you're replacing three trees with
[1:10:07] uh 14 um um obviously they're going to
[1:10:12] be younger trees. They're not going to
[1:10:13] be as big as these. They're not going to
[1:10:15] provide as much shade, but I feel like
[1:10:17] there's a tradeoff there. And so I hate
[1:10:21] to see good mature trees go, but um I'd
[1:10:24] be okay with removing the trees. And
[1:10:27] there are, to be clear, there are more
[1:10:29] than three.
[1:10:30] >> There are more than three.
[1:10:31] >> Yeah.
[1:10:31] >> I'll have to walk out there, I think,
[1:10:33] before I give a final decision then. But
[1:10:41] » yeah, I hate to lose trees, too. I I I
[1:10:43] feel your pain, Shane. I do. I really
[1:10:45] do. But on the other hand, I do feel
[1:10:47] like we are gaining. It's like like
[1:10:50] everything, there's always a tradeoff.
[1:10:52] So, um, we would gain some trees in
[1:10:56] exchange and also the the people that
[1:11:00] are using the shade, we welcome them
[1:11:02] back, but we're we hope to get like 10
[1:11:04] times the number, maybe 50 times the
[1:11:06] number of people accessing this space
[1:11:09] because of the additional features. So,
[1:11:12] to me that you always sometimes to take
[1:11:14] a step forward, you have to take a
[1:11:16] little step back. So, I'm I'm okay with
[1:11:18] it. I'm sad, too. But I think that's the
[1:11:21] right thing to do.
[1:11:23] Uh,
[1:11:26] [snorts]
[1:11:28] Confucious, he said like the the best
[1:11:32] time to plant a tree is
[1:11:35] 20 years ago. And
[1:11:38] today,
[1:11:47] Can you talk that?
[1:11:48] >> No.
[1:11:50] I never have talked to Tom. You
[1:11:51] know, he was my first boss, right?
[1:11:53] >> He was my first boss. My first job after
[1:11:56] my mission is really thankful for Tom
[1:11:59] and everything. Thank you. This is
[1:12:01] amazing. You've really done done a lot.
[1:12:03] Um this will really be nice for Alpine,
[1:12:06] for like the city and the community.
[1:12:09] It'll be really be nice. Um really
[1:12:12] prayerful. Hopefully this comes exactly
[1:12:13] as you're envisioning. Thanks for
[1:12:15] putting in the history stuff that that
[1:12:18] Thank you. Thank you.
[1:12:19] >> Well, I was a stick in the mud. Sorry.
[1:12:22] >> It was the right thing for us.
[1:12:24] >> Yeah. Thank you. It's so good. And
[1:12:26] that'll help our kids kids, you know,
[1:12:28] having we'll be able to preserve the
[1:12:31] identity through your artwork. That's
[1:12:32] like the vehicle that lasts forever. So,
[1:12:34] thank you. Um the trees, I I didn't know
[1:12:38] about that. Can't Can't we just build
[1:12:40] the Well, maybe we build the uh the um
[1:12:44] gazebo out of the trees.
[1:12:46] >> Oh,
[1:12:48] uh I would love to figure out a way to
[1:12:50] use
[1:12:51] >> I don't know. I don't know.
[1:12:52] >> I would love to.
[1:12:52] >> I'll go check them out. I'll ask the
[1:12:54] neighbors. They they didn't bring that
[1:12:55] up when we when I surveyed them around
[1:12:57] here. You've addressed what they've
[1:12:58] brought up. So, thank you. They had
[1:13:00] specifics. You've done it and Tom has
[1:13:03] done it. So, thank you. Uh that's that's
[1:13:05] all. I just have one change, but I'll
[1:13:06] text it to you. Or do you want me to
[1:13:08] tell you?
[1:13:09] >> No.
[1:13:10] >> Okay. It's so small. It's just one word.
[1:13:14] >> Well, you know, on uh John Moy, and it's
[1:13:18] so funny. We bring up documents at city
[1:13:20] council and he's the guy that signed
[1:13:21] them. So, we we like go all the way back
[1:13:23] there to see the contracts he made, like
[1:13:25] our water contract. He's got his
[1:13:27] signature on. It's so crazy. Yeah.
[1:13:30] That's going to go that's going to
[1:13:31] preserve it. Um maybe rather than
[1:13:34] relentless, just faith.
[1:13:37] That's all I got. Think it over. You're
[1:13:38] the You're the boss still. So much.
[1:13:44] » Thank you for making the oranges bigger
[1:13:46] as well. Thank you very much, Bob.
[1:13:47] >> Can I bring one more thing up? Just
[1:13:49] something.
[1:13:50] >> Can you bring the time the timeline
[1:13:52] slide up?
[1:13:58] So the only uh other concern other than
[1:14:01] I I asked Bob to get with Troy on uh
[1:14:05] just irrigation and because sometimes
[1:14:07] you know they want certain valves and
[1:14:09] different things. So I know he's working
[1:14:12] towards that. Um, looking at the
[1:14:14] timeline, one concern I have is October
[1:14:18] 26 site prep, site prep and excavation,
[1:14:23] but
[1:14:25] I don't know how the council feels if
[1:14:26] the money is not committed at that time.
[1:14:29] Um, tearing into the project and not
[1:14:31] having the funds lined up. It's a
[1:14:33] concern for me, but if it's not for you,
[1:14:36] then we roll with that.
[1:14:38] >> That's a valid concern. Bob, you want to
[1:14:40] address that?
[1:14:40] >> Yeah. So, I've, you know, in in 40
[1:14:43] years, I just have my fundraising
[1:14:46] experience, whether it was a $600
[1:14:48] million hospital at Ohio State. Um, they
[1:14:52] started before they had all the money
[1:14:53] committed. Um, at Utah Valley
[1:14:56] University, I was responsible for the
[1:14:58] science building. We started that
[1:15:00] project before we had all the money
[1:15:02] committed. Um, so there is precedent for
[1:15:05] this. Um there there you know this is a formal campaign um and there
[1:15:12] are elements that need to be done. We
[1:15:14] don't count the money until it's been
[1:15:16] documented uh with gift agreements.
[1:15:20] Um and those are as good as anything to
[1:15:22] a bank right to everybody. Um they're uh
[1:15:26] they're legal documents. Um and so um
[1:15:30] you know uh I I
[1:15:32] >> Bob is the total 4.5. 4.5
[1:15:35] >> and you've got 1.5 that is uh uh
[1:15:38] >> that is pending.
[1:15:39] >> Pending.
[1:15:40] >> Yeah. And so it's not it's not been
[1:15:41] counted. It's not a commitment, but it's
[1:15:44] quite close.
[1:15:45] >> That's good.
[1:15:46] >> Yeah.
[1:15:46] >> I say they're on a good track. um that I
[1:15:49] will also say is the hosted gatherings
[1:15:51] that we'll be doing from uh the
[1:15:54] beginning of September until the end of
[1:15:56] December uh will raise somewhere around
[1:15:59] 90% of all the money um in those those
[1:16:03] few months. Um and so that doesn't mean
[1:16:06] that we will have all of it in hand.
[1:16:09] Some people will make multi-year
[1:16:11] commitments. Um and so pledges are
[1:16:13] things that we work with as well. Um and
[1:16:16] so it it is it is typical. Um and you
[1:16:20] know most of what's happening will take
[1:16:23] place after the new year. Um and we
[1:16:26] should have uh all but very smaller you
[1:16:30] know small gifts that will be coming in
[1:16:32] from the general public at that point in
[1:16:35] time. So it'll be an accelerated
[1:16:37] campaign. Um, and uh, yeah, I I I could
[1:16:42] bring lots of research and trends and
[1:16:46] anything that might be helpful in August
[1:16:48] to help kind of address that if that's
[1:16:50] helpful.
[1:16:52] >> The analogy I use is having a brand new
[1:16:54] house and not having landscaping for a
[1:16:56] few years. You deal with dust and mud
[1:16:59] and whatever. But I'm not I mean in my
[1:17:01] mind it doesn't mean every single statue
[1:17:04] is there, but I think all the basic
[1:17:08] everything. I I would recommend that the
[1:17:11] funding be there for that so you don't
[1:17:14] have a Brandy community center and dirt
[1:17:18] from there to city hall to deal with for
[1:17:22] whatever period of time it takes to
[1:17:24] raise the funds. So, so yeah, and to
[1:17:27] that point, October is just clearing the
[1:17:29] slate. Um, all of the other work takes
[1:17:32] place in the spring and summer.
[1:17:35] >> Is there a way to ask for um your
[1:17:37] landscape designer to provide a phasing
[1:17:39] to address Shane's concern? Like what
[1:17:43] would be phase one paid for? Like if we
[1:17:45] got three million and then you know what
[1:17:47] I'm saying? Like what he's saying? Could
[1:17:49] we put in all the hardcape per se
[1:17:51] walkways and sprinkler systems? You know
[1:17:54] what I'm saying? That would be phase one
[1:17:57] like as far as fund like getting
[1:18:00] >> because I know there's a scope and
[1:18:01] sequence when you install landscaping.
[1:18:03] >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know and it is it is
[1:18:07] you know there is a degree of
[1:18:08] flexibility. You know I there's there's
[1:18:10] a lot that you can bank on but we are
[1:18:13] asking for voluntary donations too. Um
[1:18:16] and so it's not the same process that
[1:18:19] you go through when you have money
[1:18:21] that's been budgeted for this. Right. Um
[1:18:24] so we can accelerate this or slow it
[1:18:28] down. Um and you know if it would help
[1:18:32] there could be certain fundraising
[1:18:35] benchmarks that communic that gets
[1:18:37] communicated to you in our regular
[1:18:39] updates that you say okay release the
[1:18:42] Kraken for this right I mean go get that
[1:18:44] done now. Um, I just didn't know if
[1:18:47] that's something that you wanted to
[1:18:48] manage.
[1:18:50] But we could do that with staff.
[1:18:52] >> It just made me nervous. There was a
[1:18:53] suggestion when the equipment hit the
[1:18:57] fire station to try to get the same
[1:19:00] contractor to, you know, demo this area
[1:19:03] then. And I'm like,
[1:19:06] it to me that's not a good plan.
[1:19:09] Um, I I think the basic stuff should be
[1:19:12] in there, but again, it's the council's
[1:19:15] decision. If you say move forward
[1:19:17] without the commitments for all the
[1:19:19] funding to make this happen, that's the council's decision.
[1:19:23] >> So, what are the drawbacks to you in
[1:19:25] delaying until you have the funding, the
[1:19:27] fundraising at least substantially
[1:19:30] completed to at least address the
[1:19:31] landscaping?
[1:19:33] >> Um, well, the landscaping will be a big
[1:19:36] part to this. We're essentially creating
[1:19:38] an outdoor gallery, right? So, it's not
[1:19:42] a small piece. It's not just clearing
[1:19:44] and putting grass. Um there's there's
[1:19:47] rocks, there's walls, you know, there's stone walkways. Um there's a
[1:19:53] variety of things that are not going to
[1:19:55] be inexpensive
[1:19:57] um by design because we want them to
[1:20:00] last.
[1:20:02] So, but I I think that there could be
[1:20:05] easily a mechanism that is put together
[1:20:09] that says, you know, once the funding
[1:20:11] reaches a critical mass that, you know,
[1:20:14] is is where you have uh license to to
[1:20:19] move into this particular stage, right?
[1:20:22] Um I I wouldn't suggest doing anything
[1:20:25] um if in October we have no money. This
[1:20:29] is donor driven. It has to be. Um, and
[1:20:34] that's the way that we're approaching
[1:20:35] it. But, uh, this is not by far the most
[1:20:39] difficult campaign I've ever had.
[1:20:42] >> I I like Chrissy's idea of perhaps
[1:20:44] having it in phases and once we've
[1:20:47] reached the the donated amount to cover
[1:20:50] phase one, then we go ahead with phase
[1:20:52] one. And
[1:20:53] >> yeah,
[1:20:53] >> if we could chunk it like that, to me
[1:20:55] that makes more sense. Um, my second
[1:20:57] question is how long does the site prep
[1:21:00] slash excavation take? Because if it
[1:21:03] doesn't take that long, I don't I don't
[1:21:06] know. To me, it doesn't seem like it
[1:21:08] would make that big of a difference if
[1:21:09] we waited till after we have the funds.
[1:21:12] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's just really to
[1:21:14] kind of get the ground ready for all the
[1:21:16] work that happens in the spring before
[1:21:18] snow comes and hopefully there will be
[1:21:20] snow.
[1:21:23] So, so that's all it is. It's just
[1:21:25] preparing the ground so that in the
[1:21:28] spring they can hit the ground running.
[1:21:31] I know you have a target date of alpine
[1:21:33] days next year. Um
[1:21:38] I for me I I think it I I I appreciate
[1:21:41] Shane's thought of making sure that
[1:21:44] we're not going to have a partially
[1:21:45] completed project and then it's
[1:21:46] abandoned.
[1:21:47] >> Um taking out these mature trees and
[1:21:49] these other things. I would prefer to
[1:21:51] wait um and make sure you have the
[1:21:54] funding at least to a comfort level that
[1:21:56] we feel good about before we commit and
[1:22:00] maybe having to put off the opening past
[1:22:02] alpine days which which would be fine.
[1:22:04] >> Yeah.
[1:22:07] >> And with all that we're not trying to
[1:22:09] shed any kind of negative light. We're
[1:22:10] just trying to bring up the issues that
[1:22:12] we as we see them to the council.
[1:22:14] >> Let's let's say the fundraising goes
[1:22:16] splendidly well and we're ready to do
[1:22:18] this in October. How would this timeline
[1:22:20] affect what's going on with the fire
[1:22:22] station remodel?
[1:22:23] >> Uh, so they'll have the parking lots
[1:22:28] complete. I believe the schedule had
[1:22:30] like mid October.
[1:22:32] I don't really see it affecting
[1:22:34] >> Okay.
[1:22:35] >> They probably won't be able to access
[1:22:37] through there. We'd probably have to
[1:22:38] come from the center street side. Just
[1:22:40] warranties and different things.
[1:22:42] Wouldn't want to get into any issues
[1:22:44] there, but all that could be worked
[1:22:46] through.
[1:22:49] Anything else?
[1:22:53] >> All right. Thank you, sir.
[1:22:56] >> All right. We appreciate that. Looks
[1:22:57] beautiful. Let's move on to reports and
[1:23:00] presentations. Item C, Utah growing
[1:23:03] water smart workshop report. Council
[1:23:05] members Hanaman and Blackwell.
[1:23:08] >> Also, I will just say that um Steve
[1:23:10] Burroughs and Jason Jud will also be
[1:23:12] helping with this presentation.
[1:23:15] >> Okay.
[1:23:18] I'm Steve Burles. I'm going to kick it
[1:23:20] off. The heavy lifting will be done by
[1:23:22] our two council women and and Jason to
[1:23:25] give you a sense in the first three days
[1:23:27] of June. Um, six representatives of
[1:23:32] Alpine, two council women, a uh, three
[1:23:35] staff and myself attended a a conference
[1:23:39] in Hebrew City that was sponsored by the
[1:23:41] Utah Division of National Res Natural
[1:23:43] Resources, the uh, Central Utah Water
[1:23:46] Conservancy District, USU, Utah League
[1:23:49] of
[1:23:51] Counties, and the Babbot Center for Land
[1:23:53] Water Policy. Over a 3-day period, we
[1:23:57] were together for about 22 hours. Over
[1:24:01] nine of those hours, over 40% was this
[1:24:04] team, our alpine team of six people
[1:24:09] um were in dialogue facilitated by a
[1:24:14] couple very expert facilitators to help
[1:24:17] us create a water plan that you'll be
[1:24:21] given more detail in just a minute. I
[1:24:23] think that one thing to remember is
[1:24:26] this. Of all the seven um cities, there
[1:24:30] were only four uh council people. There
[1:24:33] were 45 attendees, only four council
[1:24:36] people. Two of them were from our city.
[1:24:39] There was a mayor that attended. Uh
[1:24:42] there was only one resident, yours
[1:24:44] truly. Okay. I think the the importance
[1:24:47] of that is the discussion was robust
[1:24:51] rather. We are diverse in our
[1:24:54] backgrounds. We're diverse in our
[1:24:55] responsibilities. I'd like to see an
[1:24:58] analogy of a stool, three-legged stool,
[1:25:01] I think, for the success of most things.
[1:25:04] Three three components make a
[1:25:05] difference. We had the city staff, we
[1:25:08] had the council, and then we had a
[1:25:10] resident, too. So, th those voices were
[1:25:13] very open and important.
[1:25:16] Um, we were willing to share our
[1:25:18] experiences. You learned a lot from each
[1:25:20] other. They're very healthy, deep
[1:25:22] discussions. Uh, you know, you consider
[1:25:25] the personalities. We've got Jason, Jud,
[1:25:28] we've got Shellyley, uh, Slate, James,
[1:25:31] Saleo, myself, and and Sarah, and
[1:25:33] Chrissy. So, things were covered and
[1:25:36] covered deeply, which was good. All
[1:25:39] right. Um, let's go ahead and go to this
[1:25:43] first slide, that one. The vision. This
[1:25:46] is important. The words are important.
[1:25:48] We debated for two hours um on some of
[1:25:52] the words the last day. What's important
[1:25:54] here is the word self-sufficient.
[1:25:57] Okay. Other way of looking at it is
[1:25:59] living within our means. When it comes
[1:26:02] to water, there are no more water
[1:26:04] sources. We we're tapping them. It comes
[1:26:07] from the sky. It comes from the ground.
[1:26:09] You don't make water. Okay. So going
[1:26:12] forward and I was impressed with for
[1:26:14] example the central Utah water
[1:26:16] conservancy district they're planning
[1:26:18] for 2100
[1:26:21] okay the what we're talking about and
[1:26:24] what this plan emphasizes is the need to
[1:26:26] continue our planning and continuous
[1:26:29] planning and based on the the situations
[1:26:32] we're forced to deal with especially
[1:26:34] with mother nature.
[1:26:36] The importance is that we can achieve
[1:26:38] this vision through a very collaborative
[1:26:42] teamwork. This is heavy lifting. We're
[1:26:44] going to need all three legs of that
[1:26:46] stool to work together to make sure it's
[1:26:48] done well. And we're going to need some
[1:26:50] resilient long-term strategies. We'll do
[1:26:54] best thinking. We'll re we'll look at it
[1:26:57] again. We may use scenario planning type
[1:26:59] uh strata uh strategy development to
[1:27:02] develop strategies but on occasion we're
[1:27:04] going to revise them and we're going to
[1:27:06] have to be resilient. Okay, next slide
[1:27:08] please.
[1:27:11] Okay, here we get uh into some specifics
[1:27:13] more in a broad sense. It's important to
[1:27:16] that I I came away with an importance
[1:27:18] land issues and water issues are not
[1:27:21] different. They're the same. When we
[1:27:23] consider the use of land, we're also by
[1:27:26] default considering the use of water.
[1:27:29] The need to continuously plan. The
[1:27:32] Central Utah Water Conservancy District
[1:27:34] inferred that our negotiated allocations
[1:27:38] may change. And as you read about the uh Colorado River and realize that
[1:27:44] 63% of all the water the Wasatch Front
[1:27:47] uses is from the Colorado River. Those
[1:27:50] levels are only going one direction
[1:27:52] right now. Okay. Some of the proposed
[1:27:55] strategies that you'll hear about are
[1:27:58] literally our negotiations with a
[1:28:00] neighbor Lehi and with the Central Utah
[1:28:03] Water Conservancy District about what
[1:28:05] should our portion be? Are there any
[1:28:07] tradeoffs? Um, we need continued uh
[1:28:12] public water conservation outreach.
[1:28:15] Little by little, pulling all the levers
[1:28:17] of enforcement and rate structures and
[1:28:20] education will help us be more
[1:28:23] self-sufficient. Living within our means
[1:28:25] of the water we have, the importance of
[1:28:28] a long-term plan. You know, if they're
[1:28:30] planning for 2100, we can plan for
[1:28:33] 20 years, 10 years certainly, and keep
[1:28:36] reviewing that plan. We need a city
[1:28:40] drought preparedness plan with specific
[1:28:42] triggers. So if next year or the
[1:28:44] following year the drought becomes
[1:28:46] something that we didn't expect, we have
[1:28:48] abilities to pull these levers so that
[1:28:50] once again we can live within our means
[1:28:52] and be self-sufficient.
[1:28:55] Uh we I know we're looking at a rate um
[1:28:58] structure. Um certainly the need for a
[1:29:01] conservation ba based rate structure
[1:29:04] will be important and over time there
[1:29:06] will be innovations such as the the
[1:29:09] technology associated with uh um
[1:29:13] irrigation clocks and etc. Next slide.
[1:29:17] This was this is a picture that we're
[1:29:19] accustomed to as it's looked this way
[1:29:22] since May. Um, we're in an extreme
[1:29:27] we're in extreme extraordinary drought
[1:29:30] rather and our reservoir levels which is
[1:29:33] our savings account. The the water that
[1:29:36] comes down from the mountains is our
[1:29:38] checking account and when that's not
[1:29:39] there we depend on our reservoirs as far
[1:29:42] away as Strawberry Reservoir. Um we as
[1:29:47] of the 20th of this month the average
[1:29:51] capacity across the the state was 35%
[1:29:55] last year was 47%.
[1:29:58] Merely to emphasize this is a real
[1:30:00] issue. It's not changing uh much more
[1:30:03] than looking less uh uh favorable.
[1:30:09] I think we're finding over time that is
[1:30:11] our residents can understand how
[1:30:13] important the annual snowpack is and
[1:30:15] that really determines the sources we
[1:30:17] have. The as you know the spring runoff
[1:30:21] is the primary source of our uh pressure
[1:30:24] irrigation water. the the spring snow
[1:30:27] runoff and it goes feeds into our
[1:30:31] aquifers which feeds our natural springs
[1:30:35] which become our source of culinary
[1:30:36] water and certainly the feed the
[1:30:39] existing and potential new wells coming
[1:30:41] up.
[1:30:43] Let's go to the next one. Okay. Um
[1:30:47] looking at looking at what go one just
[1:30:50] before that please. Okay. So thus far
[1:30:53] this year, so in 80 85 days in 33 35% of
[1:30:58] the time period between the 15th and of
[1:31:00] April and the 15th of October, we're
[1:31:03] down for with our pressure irrigation
[1:31:06] usage by 11.75
[1:31:09] 12%. We're down in our culinary usage by
[1:31:12] almost 5.5%.
[1:31:14] The word is getting out. Members, people
[1:31:17] whether it be a users, schools,
[1:31:20] churches, and especially residents are
[1:31:23] understanding they make a difference.
[1:31:27] Um, let's go to the next slide.
[1:31:30] We're going to jump right to that's the
[1:31:32] detail. Go to the next slide, please.
[1:31:35] What's important here is that our
[1:31:37] average temperature is much higher
[1:31:40] um than normal this year. almost five degrees higher than normal normal
[1:31:48] when compared to last year which was
[1:31:50] almost four degrees higher. The average
[1:31:53] participation is lower than normal in
[1:31:56] both years and when you compare them we
[1:31:59] had a little more rain and we had almost
[1:32:01] three inches during this period in 25
[1:32:04] and um a little less than two in 26.
[1:32:10] Let's go next and that may be it. Yes.
[1:32:13] So, as the chair of the citizens
[1:32:16] advisory committee for water, I
[1:32:18] appreciate uh those on the committee.
[1:32:20] Sarah is our lead. Um we have um Jeff uh
[1:32:26] Davis, who is a and I'm learning
[1:32:28] hydrogeeologist,
[1:32:31] which means he's really smart when it
[1:32:33] comes to water. And we appreciate Will
[1:32:36] and and Brian. We have two others, Clyde
[1:32:40] and uh Sullivan. uh it makes a
[1:32:42] difference and we this this conference
[1:32:45] was very eye- openening for me. I I went
[1:32:48] through a lot of learning curve I
[1:32:50] especially saw the power of
[1:32:52] collaborative discussion the the setting
[1:32:56] the facilitators created a setting where
[1:32:58] it was very open. We could express our
[1:33:01] concerns. We could s uh express our
[1:33:04] thoughts. We could get to agreements.
[1:33:07] And this is what you're going to see now
[1:33:09] as it pertains to what we're proposing.
[1:33:12] >> Thank you, Steve. Um I'll explain our
[1:33:15] goal um goal number one next. But before
[1:33:17] I do that, I just wanted to share one
[1:33:19] thing. Um this was in an article that
[1:33:21] actually Steve sent to me about kind of
[1:33:23] like the the Utah heritage, the pioneer
[1:33:25] spirit. And I just thought this was a
[1:33:28] great quote. They're talking about, you
[1:33:29] know, when the pioneers first came to
[1:33:31] Utah said they were supposed to work
[1:33:33] hard to sacrifice for the good of
[1:33:34] others. They believe that welfare was
[1:33:36] fundamentally a neighbor-to- neighbor
[1:33:38] responsibility rather than a
[1:33:39] responsibility for government. And I
[1:33:41] just really like that because I feel
[1:33:43] like, you know, in this drought year, it
[1:33:45] takes all of us. I mean, we can we can
[1:33:48] adjust traits, we can do all the things,
[1:33:51] but ultimately it just comes down to us
[1:33:53] being good neighbors and living in a
[1:33:56] community and looking out for each
[1:33:57] other. And um this goal of becoming
[1:34:00] self-sufficient isn't just going to be
[1:34:03] one person. is going to take all of
[1:34:04] Alpine. And so I I've really enjoyed
[1:34:07] being on this committee because I feel
[1:34:08] like there's so much collaboration and
[1:34:10] going to this conference was really
[1:34:12] great. Um lots of really great data and
[1:34:14] resources, but also a lot of
[1:34:16] collaboration. Like Steve said, we spent
[1:34:18] a lot of time developing like what's our
[1:34:21] vision for Alpine and what are our
[1:34:23] goals? And we came up with three goals.
[1:34:25] And my I am what they called um champion
[1:34:30] of one of the goals. And then um
[1:34:32] Councilwoman Henman is a champion for
[1:34:34] one and Jason is champion for the other.
[1:34:36] So I'm just going to stop talk about
[1:34:39] goal one which is the one that um I am
[1:34:42] champion over. Um, I guess it just makes
[1:34:44] sure that just essentially means I help
[1:34:47] facilitate and make sure that everything
[1:34:50] on on these action plans move forward,
[1:34:52] which you know brainstorming is great,
[1:34:55] but then having action items and
[1:34:58] actionable items is is even better. So,
[1:35:01] I loved that we did this. So,
[1:35:03] essentially this goal is to unify Alpine
[1:35:05] stakeholders um through communication
[1:35:07] and education to support the vision. So,
[1:35:10] it's not just the residents, it's not
[1:35:12] just the city staff. We have the Alpine
[1:35:14] Irrigation Company. We have, you know,
[1:35:16] the Forest Service borders our city. We
[1:35:19] also have um, you know, Central Utah
[1:35:22] Water. Um, we also, you know, Lehi uses
[1:35:26] some of the water that surrounds our
[1:35:29] city or is in within our city. So, it's
[1:35:31] working collaboratively with all of
[1:35:32] those all of our neighbors for to help
[1:35:35] us become more self-sufficient as well
[1:35:38] as to see how we can help others become
[1:35:41] more self-sufficient. So, part of the um
[1:35:44] and I apologize if there are errors on
[1:35:46] these slides. It is my fault. It's not
[1:35:49] Councilwoman Hannah's or Steve's or
[1:35:51] anyone else's. Um, so some of these
[1:35:54] action steps that we took with goal one
[1:35:56] was obviously it's going to require a
[1:35:59] lot of collaboration and a lot of
[1:36:00] communication. So that would include
[1:36:02] with city staff, irrigation company, um,
[1:36:05] elected appointed officials, um, and
[1:36:08] others as needed. So that might also
[1:36:10] mean Lehi city or the county
[1:36:12] landscapers.
[1:36:14] Um, so we put deadlines to each of these
[1:36:17] goals and we developed um or assigned a lead person to kind of make sure that
[1:36:23] they are followed up with. Um, another
[1:36:26] action step is just make sure that we're
[1:36:28] partnering with the Alpine Irrigation
[1:36:30] Company and that we're working in tandem
[1:36:32] rather than working against each other.
[1:36:34] Um, and then like I mentioned partnering
[1:36:37] with Lehi. Um, one of the thoughts that
[1:36:41] we had, which I don't know how likely
[1:36:42] this is, is what if Grove Spring, you
[1:36:44] know, is no longer accessible, we
[1:36:46] learned that we also have access to well
[1:36:49] water, but maybe there's some
[1:36:50] conversations that we could also have
[1:36:52] with Lehi with regards to utilizing more
[1:36:54] water from Schoolhouse Springs. Um, and
[1:36:58] then I love this one also. So part of
[1:37:01] the collaboration is within the
[1:37:02] community and um I have to give my hats
[1:37:06] off to the water committee for so far
[1:37:09] we've had three community education
[1:37:12] nights on water and they've all been
[1:37:14] different. So even if you've come to one
[1:37:17] that doesn't mean you shouldn't come to
[1:37:18] the others because they're they're super
[1:37:20] educational and I think it's a great way
[1:37:23] to learn more about water and just to be
[1:37:25] inspired to do your part. Um and then
[1:37:28] also we mentioned the forest service. Um
[1:37:32] and then a part of that is what we're
[1:37:33] doing tonight is we're presenting uh
[1:37:36] we're reporting on our our workshop that
[1:37:38] we attended. And then also just it's
[1:37:40] always good to follow up. So those are
[1:37:43] in summary um part of the action items
[1:37:46] for goal number one.
[1:37:57] Okay, it's my turn. Um goal number two
[1:38:01] is adopting policies and ordinances to I
[1:38:04] believe Yeah. Yes, here we come. to
[1:38:08] protect water resources and facilitate
[1:38:10] responsible land use. I think um Steve
[1:38:13] Rose mentioned that. Um since attending
[1:38:17] this um conference, I've changed my
[1:38:19] career and I'm now working for six water
[1:38:22] districts and uh each one is unique and
[1:38:25] I've learned about the different ways um
[1:38:28] we provide water um different ways land
[1:38:32] use impacts water. Um, it's been very
[1:38:36] enlightening. So, this was a good drink
[1:38:40] of water, but I'm been drinking through
[1:38:41] a fire hose about water. And, um, we're
[1:38:45] in a good we're in a really good place
[1:38:46] here in Alpine. I do want to say that
[1:38:49] because we're at the headgates for the
[1:38:50] river and our stream and our growth
[1:38:54] spring. So, um, that's something I I I
[1:38:58] feel like I I appreciate more and more,
[1:39:01] um, as I learn more and more about
[1:39:02] water. So let's um go to the next slide.
[1:39:06] Um water as you know is um essential for
[1:39:10] life. Let's go to the next one. We can
[1:39:12] skip the next one. I already read that.
[1:39:14] Okay. So I've been thinking about um the
[1:39:18] our blue planet because uh without water
[1:39:21] we couldn't live in this planet on this
[1:39:24] planet or even in this particular city.
[1:39:27] Um and so I found this rule of three.
[1:39:29] You can live three minutes without air.
[1:39:31] You can live 3 weeks without food, but
[1:39:33] only three days without water. And so
[1:39:36] that even though we're trying to do
[1:39:37] parks and we're trying to do alpine days
[1:39:39] and we're trying to um keep, you know,
[1:39:43] the streets from having potholes, like
[1:39:45] none of us could really survive if we
[1:39:47] weren't bringing water to our residents,
[1:39:49] which tells me how important it is that
[1:39:52] we get it right and that it's a
[1:39:53] long-term strategy and that it's we're
[1:39:56] resilient to the changes we're finding
[1:39:59] um in our whether it's climate change or
[1:40:02] develop like how we're developing our
[1:40:03] land. So, what? I didn't finish. I'm not
[1:40:06] I don't have that great a memory. All
[1:40:08] right. So, um we can I say today we can
[1:40:11] fly to the moon and we can send instant
[1:40:13] messages around the world and replace
[1:40:16] human organs, but yet we still haven't
[1:40:18] figured out control the weather. We're
[1:40:20] very dependent on mother nature in
[1:40:22] partnership as Steve brought up to to
[1:40:25] facilitate our lives really. And um we
[1:40:29] are living in a modern miracle. Every
[1:40:31] time we would pull turn on the tap um
[1:40:34] and see clean water coming out or even
[1:40:37] that we I have a I like Kentucky blueg
[1:40:40] grass. It's growing in my yard, but
[1:40:42] that's a miracle too because it wouldn't
[1:40:44] be growing without water. So that was
[1:40:47] just to tell you how important water is
[1:40:49] to our quality of life. So here are some
[1:40:52] um here here was our goal statement. We
[1:40:54] need to adopt responsible land use
[1:40:56] policies. And why? So we can protect
[1:40:59] this valuable resource which is the
[1:41:01] water. Um and facilitate responsible
[1:41:04] land use. And the people who are
[1:41:08] responsible for [snorts] ultimately for
[1:41:11] uh this goal is the Alpine City Council
[1:41:14] because we are the legislative arm of
[1:41:16] our city and that um we have experts
[1:41:19] among us um on staff and as mentioned
[1:41:23] residents who can help us reach these
[1:41:25] goals. So, here are some ideas of um
[1:41:28] ways that ordinances affect water. So,
[1:41:30] let's go through a few examples. Um we
[1:41:33] can click on the next one just to
[1:41:35] understand the full water cycle. Um if
[1:41:37] you were like me growing up in the dark
[1:41:39] ages, water only existed um on top of
[1:41:43] the ground and we could see it rain and
[1:41:45] then go down in streams and hit the
[1:41:47] ocean or the lakes and go back up again.
[1:41:49] Well, there's a whole other cycle going
[1:41:51] on underneath the ground. And that is
[1:41:54] actually the most um valuable water,
[1:41:57] drinking water, because it's naturally
[1:41:59] filtrated by the um roots and the stones
[1:42:03] and things like that. And it's also can
[1:42:05] be stored for a long, long time
[1:42:06] underground. And so that is why land is
[1:42:10] so important to our water source. So, um
[1:42:13] let's go to the next one. Here's our
[1:42:16] goals. Um we could talk about a
[1:42:18] landscape ordinance is the first thing.
[1:42:20] Um and then we would once we have
[1:42:23] ordinances then we could actually
[1:42:25] implement um like a followup by uh by
[1:42:29] when we issue landscape permits. Does it
[1:42:31] include these elements that benefit our
[1:42:33] underground water system? Um we'd have a
[1:42:36] drought response with trigger points. um
[1:42:39] in one of my six districts that I work
[1:42:41] for um they're in a extreme drought and
[1:42:44] their their water rates have drastically
[1:42:47] um been raised so that people are uh
[1:42:51] sensitive to the limited water that they
[1:42:53] have in that area and it's working
[1:42:56] because people I every day they call in
[1:42:57] why is my water bill so high and and
[1:42:59] every day they explain well we're in a
[1:43:01] drought and they're like okay I got to
[1:43:03] adapt. Um so I've seen that working in
[1:43:06] real time. um revisit tiered rates. Um
[1:43:11] we have rate structure, I mean a rate
[1:43:13] study coming up, I think in September,
[1:43:15] maybe Shane, I'd guessed at that
[1:43:17] deadline when I was sitting in my June
[1:43:19] conference, but maybe we'll have a rate
[1:43:20] study. And again, my six water
[1:43:23] districts, I think we have like 24 rate
[1:43:25] studies coming because everything has to
[1:43:27] change because of what we're dealing
[1:43:29] with. Um tons of stuff. Anyways, that's
[1:43:33] beside the point, but the rate structure
[1:43:35] is there to help bring um awareness to
[1:43:38] the to our residents and also facilitate
[1:43:42] funding the infrastructure necessary for
[1:43:45] water. So, it's it's a dual um process
[1:43:49] and we're sensitive to what is the the
[1:43:52] impact on the residents. Um and you'll
[1:43:55] see that when we do the rate setting
[1:43:57] September. So, um let's just talk about
[1:44:00] a couple things here. the lock coverage.
[1:44:02] Something again I've learned um when you
[1:44:04] have high lot coverage, you don't have
[1:44:07] enough [clears throat] permeable
[1:44:08] surfaces that so that water can get into
[1:44:11] the ground. And so um I've looked at
[1:44:13] other cities. Uh Kaden and I have gone
[1:44:16] through a couple of other cities that
[1:44:17] have lot coverage requirements. Sorry,
[1:44:20] stay up there. You're going a little
[1:44:22] fast for me. I'm a long talker. Just
[1:44:23] kidding. So anyways, um so that if we
[1:44:26] only have asphalt like no water can get
[1:44:30] down into the place that we need water
[1:44:32] which is underground to store it where
[1:44:35] that's our drinking water. We have wells
[1:44:37] from like high elevation to low
[1:44:39] elevation. So underground it's moving
[1:44:42] down to the lower elevations. So it
[1:44:45] matters. It doesn't really matter just
[1:44:47] what we're doing. Um it matters
[1:44:49] everywhere. And then like I said, we're
[1:44:52] the headgate. So even underground that
[1:44:54] water is moving underground to other
[1:44:56] places to other wells in American Fork
[1:44:58] or further downstream from us. So we
[1:45:01] have a big impact and um neighbor to
[1:45:04] neighbor we can help other cities care
[1:45:06] about lot coverage as well. Um here's
[1:45:10] something again I've learned um about
[1:45:13] the different forms of housing and we
[1:45:16] right now we don't allow anything but
[1:45:17] single family residents. So if we were
[1:45:21] to adapt to the shrinking uh water
[1:45:24] supply we have one way to adapt not the
[1:45:27] only way but one way is to um increase
[1:45:29] density by some factor and the state has
[1:45:33] already mandated um accessory dwelling
[1:45:36] units. So again um for the same amount
[1:45:39] of land, the same amount of water, we
[1:45:41] need to stretch it to to more households
[1:45:44] if we're going to comply with the state
[1:45:46] statute. So what they found over time um
[1:45:50] is that like I would compare Utah more
[1:45:52] to Denver, Phoenix, and San Diego
[1:45:54] because if you New York, you know, they
[1:45:57] have they have a completely different
[1:45:58] climate and so does um Florida. So in
[1:46:01] Denver, which I think is the closest if you only do single family homes, um
[1:46:06] you're going to use twice as much water
[1:46:08] per unit as if you um had multifamily
[1:46:11] homes. And this is a composite. It's not
[1:46:14] just talking about high density. This is
[1:46:15] a very long report but I don't want to
[1:46:17] bore you with it. So let's go to the
[1:46:19] next page. So how we um decide to to
[1:46:22] allow density in the city is affects our
[1:46:26] water which I didn't understand that at
[1:46:29] all when I started this process in June.
[1:46:31] Um here what about the importance of
[1:46:34] trees? We've talked about mature trees
[1:46:36] tonight right here on our alpine city.
[1:46:38] But there they do provide shade which
[1:46:41] cools the temperature of everything
[1:46:43] around us. So, if you have a street
[1:46:46] that's um in the sun on the top picture
[1:46:50] without trees, it's much hotter. 56 50
[1:46:53] degrees Celsius. So, this must have come
[1:46:55] from Europe or Canada because it's not
[1:46:57] in Fahrenheit. But anyways, versus 26
[1:46:59] degrees. So, almost twice the
[1:47:01] temperature. And then over here, um,
[1:47:03] when we do choose landscaping, what they
[1:47:06] found is, um, the places that have gone
[1:47:08] to zeroscaping that use no water, um, it
[1:47:11] actually creates a h a hotter
[1:47:14] environment and it makes it actually
[1:47:16] harder on the humans and the animals and
[1:47:19] any plants that are trying to survive in
[1:47:21] this much um artificial like basically
[1:47:25] an artificial heat zone. Also, um the um
[1:47:30] the any water that lands in that kind of
[1:47:33] heat doesn't really penetrate down very
[1:47:36] far because the the ground is just like
[1:47:39] hard. And so um then we go to our
[1:47:41] traditional grass, the turf, and that is
[1:47:45] um a high water use, very high water
[1:47:47] use. It does cool the areas though. And
[1:47:51] um but uh overall the best way to for
[1:47:55] water at least is so you can see the
[1:47:58] empty drop of water, the full drop of
[1:48:00] water and then the half it uses half as
[1:48:02] much. This is very you know um rounding
[1:48:07] half as much water and it's still
[1:48:09] beautiful. And then what we've learned
[1:48:11] is like the state and all their
[1:48:13] landscape replacement programs, they
[1:48:15] don't encourage rock. They really want
[1:48:17] us to use mulch because it retains
[1:48:19] moisture. It keeps um the roots cool for
[1:48:22] any plants you do have. So all those
[1:48:25] kinds of things could go into into a
[1:48:27] landscape ordinance to encourage um
[1:48:30] certain types of things or mandate
[1:48:32] certain certain things um where
[1:48:35] possible. Something to think about. Um
[1:48:40] another issue that has come up um
[1:48:42] recently is uh our repairarium buffers.
[1:48:45] We do have two major well not major streams not major rivers but
[1:48:50] definitely a streams um dry creek and
[1:48:53] fort creek and all around are they have
[1:48:56] um vegetation growing that you can see
[1:49:00] the water is not they're not just
[1:49:02] getting water from the rain or from the
[1:49:05] river itself. But if you go and tap down
[1:49:07] into the underground, underneath the
[1:49:09] ground, that stream is, you know, it it
[1:49:12] if you ever look at the stream bed, it's
[1:49:14] full of boulders. So, it's definitely
[1:49:16] porous and the water goes out and can
[1:49:18] get to the um roots of these trees. And
[1:49:22] so, um this has become more everyone's
[1:49:25] become more aware of how important it is
[1:49:27] to have a repairarian buffer. And we
[1:49:30] don't have to decide or dream up how to create the ordinance because
[1:49:34] there's actually a guide for city
[1:49:36] planners across the state of Utah. We
[1:49:38] can just pluck that out of that book and approve it next month. Who's who's
[1:49:43] for approving that?
[1:49:45] >> Okay, that was a joke. Okay, but I am.
[1:49:49] Okay. Lastly, um uh Sarah mentioned our
[1:49:53] watershed. Um maybe you've you've
[1:49:55] watched or heard about um or seen signs
[1:49:58] if you if you go hiking in the
[1:50:00] Cottonwood both little and big
[1:50:02] Cottonwood canyons about the watershed
[1:50:04] that that is a watershed for drinking
[1:50:06] water. And so we can't have dogs off
[1:50:09] leash. We can't um do you know obviously
[1:50:12] no human waste, right? That type of
[1:50:14] thing which would um which would poison
[1:50:18] um the water. And so we also have a
[1:50:20] watershed. If you look at this map from
[1:50:23] my inexperienced reading of the
[1:50:26] watershed, um I think we're in the Lone
[1:50:28] Peak Wilderness Watershed because our
[1:50:30] mountains like kind of come down right
[1:50:32] here to Alpine and I don't know what
[1:50:35] restrictions or signage or like what's
[1:50:37] happening up there. I do know um we do
[1:50:40] have some limitations. We used to go up
[1:50:42] to first and second Hamag. Some of
[1:50:44] that's been cut off because of the
[1:50:46] watershed issue. So, is that a matter of
[1:50:49] educating residents so we can continue
[1:50:50] to be in our wilderness area without,
[1:50:52] you know, using the water or I mean
[1:50:54] poisoning our water? Um, I don't know
[1:50:56] what it would take. It's new information
[1:50:59] just as of June. So, things to consider.
[1:51:02] Let's go to the next one. Okay. So, all
[1:51:06] of this is really to to really our
[1:51:08] desired outcome is to have a sustainable
[1:51:11] and resilient policies and ordinances
[1:51:14] that will outlive us. So that um when we
[1:51:17] talk about 2050 or 2100 that the water
[1:51:20] sources of the alpine area have been
[1:51:22] preserved, protected and um are
[1:51:25] resilient to the the changes that we're
[1:51:27] seeing. And that is our ambition. You
[1:51:31] can um go to the next one. So that I
[1:51:34] didn't know if we were going to do study
[1:51:35] session. We can we can skip that. We're
[1:51:37] not going to take three minutes. You can
[1:51:39] move on to the next one. Okay. So, just
[1:51:43] a reminder, um, we'll get to goal number
[1:51:45] three, but we can only go three days
[1:51:47] without water. So, it's one of the most
[1:51:49] important things we do is provide clean
[1:51:51] water. Not just for us, but as our our
[1:51:55] um our artists here talked about, we
[1:51:58] have a future to prepare for. And the
[1:52:01] future is not something that you enter,
[1:52:02] it's something you create.
[1:52:09] » Thank you, Council Member Haniman. That
[1:52:11] was that was great.
[1:52:15] I'm not long-winded, so this is going to
[1:52:17] be quick. Um, so our goal three here, as
[1:52:20] you can see up on the screen, developing
[1:52:23] and maintaining infrastructure to
[1:52:25] prepare the city for growth, correct
[1:52:27] water system deficiencies,
[1:52:29] um, and ensure water system
[1:52:31] redundancies. Um, and some of the things
[1:52:33] we kind of discuss with on this is stuff
[1:52:36] we are currently doing. we um have
[1:52:40] studies that have been completed um and
[1:52:43] we will continue to do those as we plan
[1:52:46] for 2050 or 2100. Um
[1:52:50] and then in those studies we there's
[1:52:52] always recommendations to how we prepare
[1:52:56] for growth and what we need to do to
[1:52:59] correct system deficiencies. Um, one
[1:53:02] thing we we discussed in our conference
[1:53:06] was ensure water system redundancies.
[1:53:09] Um, the way the city sits now, most of
[1:53:12] our drinking water comes from a spring
[1:53:15] and if that spring were to ever dry up,
[1:53:20] where are we getting our water? So, that
[1:53:22] is some of the planning that we we
[1:53:23] wanted to discuss and we want to plan
[1:53:25] for. Um, another thing that was kind of
[1:53:29] brought up in this scenario was working
[1:53:32] with residents, not just city staff, and
[1:53:35] figuring this out. What do the residents
[1:53:37] want to do, excuse me, want to do? Um,
[1:53:40] and the outcome that we hope to ensure
[1:53:43] reliable sources for our culinary
[1:53:46] system, our drinking water, and our
[1:53:49] pressurized irrigation system for our
[1:53:52] current population and future go growth.
[1:53:55] So Kaden can Oh, you're on to the next p
[1:53:57] next slide there. So um one of the
[1:54:00] things that we discussed was having a
[1:54:04] more robust SCADA system and I don't
[1:54:07] know if anyone here knows what SCADA
[1:54:09] means. So that's supervisory control and
[1:54:11] data acquisition. So that's basically
[1:54:14] software and hardware that is used to
[1:54:17] monitor
[1:54:19] um gather and control critical
[1:54:22] infrastructure. So it's just using the
[1:54:25] data that we can get from our
[1:54:26] infrastructure and then planning around
[1:54:28] it. Um so a couple of the things that we
[1:54:32] wanted to do was figure out where we're
[1:54:34] sitting and we we realized after this
[1:54:37] conference that we were we had some bugs
[1:54:40] in the system. So James who came with us
[1:54:45] to this conference um he's part of the
[1:54:48] water department and and is working with
[1:54:50] our water group and they have found like
[1:54:54] I said they found some bugs so they have
[1:54:55] repaired those already and fixed those I
[1:54:58] should say bugs bugs in the system
[1:55:00] issues in the system and so they've
[1:55:01] worked through that and we want to
[1:55:03] continue doing that. Um,
[1:55:06] the other thing here was, uh, the
[1:55:07] Heritage Well and getting a bond for
[1:55:11] that. And I know we've been discussing
[1:55:13] the bond and and that it'll go through
[1:55:16] in the next however long, as long as it
[1:55:19] takes. So, um, that's all I've got. Uh,
[1:55:23] one other last thing is we were given
[1:55:26] some reading materials,
[1:55:28] uh, up there. So if anyone wants them,
[1:55:31] we've got a whole lot of information
[1:55:32] that we were given up at this
[1:55:34] conference. So if anyone wants to see
[1:55:35] those, we have them.
[1:55:38] That's it for me. Thanks.
[1:55:44] » Um just one note on those on those
[1:55:46] resources that we have. Um this was
[1:55:48] actually Councilwoman Henman's idea is
[1:55:51] um we also have other books I know in
[1:55:54] Kaden's office. I borrowed one on like
[1:55:57] zoning and ordinances. Anyway, um we
[1:56:00] would love to be able to um allow the
[1:56:03] public to use these resources. One of
[1:56:04] the ones that I found interesting was
[1:56:07] just this, you know, recommended plant
[1:56:09] groupings for low water landscapes.
[1:56:12] Anyway, um there's a bunch of just
[1:56:14] resources here. So, if residents would
[1:56:16] like to use them, we'd like to leave
[1:56:17] them in the office of the city building.
[1:56:19] So,
[1:56:22] >> thank you very much, Steve, and your
[1:56:23] fellow committee members. Really
[1:56:25] appreciate all you're doing. you guys
[1:56:26] are putting in such time and effort and
[1:56:29] learning and sharing. Thank you so much
[1:56:31] Sarah and Chrissy as well for heading
[1:56:34] this up and for all your time and
[1:56:35] commitment to this. This is excellent.
[1:56:37] And Jason, thank you very much. In the
[1:56:39] interest of time, I suggest that we if
[1:56:42] you have any questions or thoughts on
[1:56:44] the presentation on this on things going
[1:56:46] forward. This is not an action item, so
[1:56:48] I think we can discuss it outside of the
[1:56:50] council meeting and um if it needs to be
[1:56:53] brought up at a future meeting, we can
[1:56:54] do so. Is that all right?
[1:56:56] >> Excellent. Thank you very much. All
[1:56:58] right, we'll move on to reports and
[1:57:00] presentations. Item D, revenue overview
[1:57:03] with Council Member Hanimman.
[1:57:07] >> I'm handing out these little budget
[1:57:09] booklets. Oh, she has her own. Okay. Um,
[1:57:15] we have extras if anyone wants to follow
[1:57:17] along.
[1:57:21] I'll talk. Yeah, she's my able assistant
[1:57:25] here. If you're interested, um let's
[1:57:27] just put them like on the front seat.
[1:57:30] >> And and this goes to walk around and
[1:57:33] give it to Shane and some over there.
[1:57:35] Okay. Um
[1:57:38] [clears throat] this little booklet is
[1:57:40] only this big, but it has some really
[1:57:43] important things that um we as elected
[1:57:47] officials need to understand about our
[1:57:48] budgeting process. And um I feel like uh
[1:57:52] one of the things that we just completed
[1:57:55] our budgeting process. If you've been
[1:57:57] through all of that um with us, thank
[1:58:00] you for attending. But um if we if we
[1:58:05] tried to learn everything like from May
[1:58:07] to June when we actually have to approve
[1:58:09] it, we we would miss a lot. So I'm
[1:58:11] trying to stretch out some budgeting
[1:58:14] concepts starting in July. Wow. We're
[1:58:17] like uh 11 months ahead of schedule. So
[1:58:20] anyways, um as a water as a water
[1:58:22] committee, as a finance committee, we
[1:58:26] have um Shane that serves and then
[1:58:28] Kaden's been joining us. And then we
[1:58:31] have um Carrie Smith. He's a CPA also in
[1:58:35] the private and the public sector. We
[1:58:37] have Dave Sanderson who's our finance
[1:58:40] director, but he's um like an
[1:58:42] consultant. And then we have another uh
[1:58:46] citizen um Steve King. And we we learn
[1:58:51] about things and then we've reached the
[1:58:53] point where we felt like the most
[1:58:55] important people that need to understand
[1:58:57] this are the people that are sitting in
[1:58:59] these chairs. And where's my Andrew when
[1:59:01] I need him? There he is. Oh, hi.
[1:59:04] >> Okay.
[1:59:06] >> All that water talk made you thirsty.
[1:59:08] Okay. So, we're sitting in these chairs
[1:59:10] because we thought, what do we need to
[1:59:11] do? Should we do a news article? what
[1:59:13] should we do to talk about revenue? Um
[1:59:15] that was our original plan was just put
[1:59:17] this into the newsletter and it would
[1:59:19] educate you know all our residents but
[1:59:21] we realized we needed to start here at
[1:59:22] the top. So um this is a presentation
[1:59:27] just strictly on revenue. So it we are
[1:59:30] not going to talk about anything but
[1:59:31] revenue. We're also not going to um talk
[1:59:35] about what we would call um uh
[1:59:37] enterprise funds or our like the
[1:59:39] utilities even though we just started
[1:59:41] left the water topic because they they
[1:59:44] operate differently and so um there's no
[1:59:48] taxing authority at all and so there's just it's just structured
[1:59:52] differently um and so I don't want to
[1:59:55] over complicate things so we're going to
[1:59:57] keep it simple and just talk about taxes
[2:00:00] and how they impact the general fund.
[2:00:02] and along with fees. Okay, let's go to
[2:00:05] the next slide. Thank you. All right, so
[2:00:08] here this is from our 2025 um citizen
[2:00:10] budget and it shows all the revenues uh
[2:00:13] in our general fund only. You can see
[2:00:15] that general fund revenue right going
[2:00:17] across the top. And so these are our
[2:00:20] reoccurring funds that come in on a um
[2:00:23] year after year. And uh the three
[2:00:26] biggest ones are sales tax, property
[2:00:28] tax, and fees. And um often our budget
[2:00:33] is augmented by one-time money and
[2:00:35] that's like how we're going to pay for
[2:00:38] um like the Canyon Crest improvement
[2:00:40] with the MAG grant. How we paid for I
[2:00:42] think our landscape design was a grant.
[2:00:45] Was that not Shane our our landscape
[2:00:47] consultant or did was that our own
[2:00:49] funding?
[2:00:49] >> That's actually through impact fees.
[2:00:51] >> Okay. We're using impact fees again.
[2:00:53] Impact fees are onetime money. once the
[2:00:56] lot is built is that we never collect
[2:00:59] again. That that's just how it goes. Um
[2:01:02] we also can get transfers in from other
[2:01:04] places um like when we're building the
[2:01:06] fire station, everything will go out
[2:01:08] through the general fund or we can you
[2:01:11] know we can transfer it um for a future
[2:01:14] use um for other things. Another thing
[2:01:17] that happened um we got some money from
[2:01:19] the federal government because of COVID
[2:01:21] which is called ARPA. Can't remember
[2:01:23] what it stands for anymore but it was
[2:01:24] ARPA funds. Okay, keep going. One time.
[2:01:28] So, you should not pay for one
[2:01:30] uh reoccurring expenses with one-time
[2:01:33] money. That's a general financial
[2:01:34] principle. So, we have to look at what
[2:01:37] are our reoccurring revenues and that's
[2:01:39] what going to be the focus of today. Um
[2:01:42] is the first one is going to be sales
[2:01:44] tax. This is a general discussion and
[2:01:46] then we're going to go right directly to
[2:01:48] Alpine. So generally sales tax is the
[2:01:51] largest uh revenue source for a city but
[2:01:54] um not but and let me just read if you
[2:01:57] read on page 25 following along if
[2:01:59] you're interested um the sales and use
[2:02:02] taxes are taxed on most goods and some
[2:02:04] services. Sales tax applies when a
[2:02:06] purchase is made inside the state and
[2:02:08] when shipped from outside the state.
[2:02:11] Municipalities uh rate and set the is
[2:02:14] set by the legislature and
[2:02:15] municipalities is only 1%. So if our
[2:02:19] full tax rate over there is 745%
[2:02:23] we get 1%. In addition you can
[2:02:26] optionally add a few other things and we
[2:02:28] added have chosen to do the park tax um
[2:02:31] in this state which is I think just.1%.
[2:02:34] It's later in this slide. Okay. Um sign
[2:02:37] there was a significant um
[2:02:40] change in 2018. I was um in school and I
[2:02:44] learned about it uh learning about taxes
[2:02:48] and it changed the way uh taxes sales
[2:02:51] taxes collected from outside of our own
[2:02:53] state. Prior to 2018, if you bought
[2:02:56] something from another state, you didn't
[2:02:58] pay sales tax. So, there was some
[2:03:00] advantage to buying things from another
[2:03:02] state. Um, and for whatever reason, I
[2:03:05] don't know the legal arguments, but the
[2:03:07] Supreme Court said, "No, you you should
[2:03:09] te collect local sales tax on, you know,
[2:03:12] the behalf of our municipalities, even
[2:03:14] if you're shipping from out of state."
[2:03:16] So, um, this ruling significantly
[2:03:19] boosted local government budgets by
[2:03:21] capturing long-lost revenues from the
[2:03:23] e-commerce boom. So, that happened in
[2:03:25] 2018. Well, what happened in 2019, 2020?
[2:03:29] Who knows? Anyone?
[2:03:31] >> Co.
[2:03:32] So that again gave a huge boost to
[2:03:36] the e-commerce world that changed the
[2:03:39] dynamics of our city significantly. So
[2:03:41] let's go on to the next one. We will see
[2:03:44] we will and that's your that's just
[2:03:46] that's to hold your breath. We're going
[2:03:48] to talk about that. What about property
[2:03:50] tax? Generally it's the second largest
[2:03:52] source of revenue in a local city in the
[2:03:54] state of Utah. Um it's it's a tax based
[2:03:58] on the value of real property and it
[2:04:00] provides the most stable and predictable
[2:04:03] source of revenue for our general fund
[2:04:06] um for reoccurring costs. The only
[2:04:09] source that and it's also the only
[2:04:10] source that is 100% controlled by the
[2:04:12] council. The certified rate is designed
[2:04:15] to give the city the same amount of
[2:04:17] revenue as the previous year plus new
[2:04:19] properties which we will talk about. So,
[2:04:22] um unlike sales tax, sales tax will grow
[2:04:26] as your population grows and sales tax
[2:04:29] can grow with inflation. Um property tax
[2:04:31] is the opposite. Um if if there's more
[2:04:34] people living in your city, if they
[2:04:36] didn't build a new house, let's just say
[2:04:38] that they like multiplied and
[2:04:40] replenished the earth like our good
[2:04:41] friend Andrew, we have more babies born,
[2:04:44] it doesn't change a thing about our
[2:04:46] property taxes, right? It does. or if
[2:04:47] you have less people living in your
[2:04:49] city, it has no impact whatsoever based
[2:04:52] on population. And what about inflation?
[2:04:54] Nope. They the state has removed the
[2:04:56] inflationary factor out of property tax
[2:04:59] completely. So we don't your taxes do
[2:05:02] not go up as your assessed value goes
[2:05:04] up. Um we have to share our our property
[2:05:07] tax bill among all these other agencies.
[2:05:10] So, Alpine Cities, um, if you collect,
[2:05:13] you know, $1,000 in sales tax, uh, $140
[2:05:18] goes to, um, the city of Alpine. So, you might have a big tax bill, but, if
[2:05:24] you really looked and broke it down
[2:05:25] dollar for dollar, you don't pay that
[2:05:27] much really to the city of Alpine
[2:05:29] relative to the 86% going to all the
[2:05:32] other agencies with the majority going
[2:05:34] to schools. Having been a former
[2:05:36] schoolboard member, that's not a bad
[2:05:37] thing, but just so you know.
[2:05:39] >> [snorts]
[2:05:39] >> Okay. So, let's go. Keep going. Truth in
[2:05:42] taxation. Now, when I said there's no
[2:05:43] impact um to our property tax because of
[2:05:46] inflation, this is how truth and
[2:05:48] taxation works. It says what were the
[2:05:51] amount of tax dollars tax dollars that
[2:05:54] you collected in the prior year. That's
[2:05:56] all you can collect this year. You you
[2:05:58] it will not go up. The only difference
[2:06:01] is that if you um have new um properties
[2:06:05] that are developed in your city, you get
[2:06:07] that bump. it's not included in that
[2:06:10] initial calculation. So, um that's how
[2:06:13] our certified tax rate works and that's
[2:06:16] a lot of people talk about truth and
[2:06:18] taxation. Like for me, truth and
[2:06:20] taxation meant one thing, but what I
[2:06:22] learned from studying is it's really a
[2:06:25] um a notification process. There's many
[2:06:28] steps and it's very detailed how to
[2:06:30] notify the the taxpayers about any
[2:06:33] changes in the tax rate. Um, and so what
[2:06:37] you can see this last thing right here
[2:06:39] is well, let's talk about the the the process, the public transparency is
[2:06:45] there's a direct mailer to the
[2:06:47] homeowners. We don't have to do that for
[2:06:48] anything else. And there's always a
[2:06:50] public hearing. And so, um, that those
[2:06:53] are the two steps. And so, if you look
[2:06:55] over here on the left, no windfalls. If
[2:06:57] property values increase, the tax rate
[2:06:59] automatically drops. So the government
[2:07:01] does not collect extra money without a
[2:07:04] vote by the elected body who is us.
[2:07:06] Let's go to the next slide. All right.
[2:07:09] The third category of revenue is
[2:07:10] licensing and permits and fees. So how
[2:07:14] are they calculated? One thing I learned
[2:07:16] is that um if you can read that top
[2:07:18] paragraph, it has to be based on a cost
[2:07:20] basis. You can't just randomly say, you
[2:07:23] know, I really think we should charge,
[2:07:25] you know,
[2:07:27] $200 for a library card if we're in a
[2:07:29] different city. like you have to have
[2:07:30] some cost basis to it. What does it cost
[2:07:33] to like you know pay the utilities to
[2:07:35] run the staff to build the building? I
[2:07:37] don't know at all. We don't have a
[2:07:38] library but it has to be uh grounded in
[2:07:41] some kind of cost basis. Now, um, what's
[2:07:44] happened is because there is no truth in
[2:07:46] taxation process and so our residents
[2:07:49] don't get to know, people are other
[2:07:51] cities are going around and putting in
[2:07:53] lots of fees in their in their fee
[2:07:56] structure and it kind of just slides
[2:07:59] right in without any real notice to the
[2:08:01] public and that's not a good way to to raise money. it's not a way to govern
[2:08:06] and you know we believe that our people
[2:08:09] need to be informed and in a transparent
[2:08:10] process and so this new bill came out in
[2:08:13] 2026 that that put us into all of that.
[2:08:18] Of course it was sponsored by somebody
[2:08:19] in a city who um already had a fee and
[2:08:23] so they create a little loophole for
[2:08:25] that city. We'll talk about that later.
[2:08:27] So um generally the third largest source
[2:08:30] of revenue in a city of Utah. Okay. Now
[2:08:32] let's talk about Alpine. is what you've
[2:08:34] been waiting for. So, here's our
[2:08:35] highlights again. Um, first of all, our
[2:08:38] property tax um is 37%.
[2:08:42] So, it's actually our largest um revenue
[2:08:45] source, not sales tax. Any surprises why
[2:08:48] that would be council members? This is
[2:08:50] interactive. Why isn't sales tax a
[2:08:53] bigger part of our revenue source?
[2:08:55] >> Because we don't have much retail
[2:08:58] generating
[2:08:59] >> tax revenue generating businesses.
[2:09:01] >> Perfect. Okay. That's right. Um and then
[2:09:06] let's see sales taxes only is the second
[2:09:09] biggest pool. And then the third biggest
[2:09:11] one would be our fees. So um when you
[2:09:15] look at the demographics and I think the
[2:09:17] parks thing already showed that we are
[2:09:19] starting to age but our median household
[2:09:22] income is very high. Our home values are
[2:09:24] high. Um, and so
[2:09:28] it's, how do I want to say it may be
[2:09:30] more equitable that the that because we
[2:09:33] don't have that commercial base that our
[2:09:35] residents can actually afford a little
[2:09:37] bit higher property tax relative to what
[2:09:41] how other cities are generating revenue
[2:09:43] because um, we have a little bit we have
[2:09:46] higher home values and higher income.
[2:09:49] Whether or not we think that's fair,
[2:09:50] that's for us to decide. That's why
[2:09:52] we're here. Okay, so let's keep going to
[2:09:54] the next thing. Here's our alpine trend.
[2:09:57] So in reality, the amount of revenue
[2:10:00] that we generated is um the orange line
[2:10:04] and there was a jump in property tax
[2:10:06] which we're going to discuss on the next
[2:10:08] slide. And then what's happening to our
[2:10:10] rate council members?
[2:10:14] >> Where are you where you looking?
[2:10:16] >> The green line is the rate. It's
[2:10:18] decreasing.
[2:10:19] >> It's decreasing. So as so our rate is
[2:10:22] decreasing because um
[2:10:26] our as our values goes up the rate goes
[2:10:28] down right because we remember algebra
[2:10:30] from seventh grade. Okay so what about
[2:10:33] our tax rate we've actually seen an
[2:10:35] increase um year-over-year in the last
[2:10:37] year was um almost 4%.
[2:10:41] So in this little booklet um oh I I I
[2:10:44] missed some things. Okay, we talked
[2:10:45] about sales tax was page 25. Page 24 was
[2:10:49] property tax, but I read right out of
[2:10:50] this books. Page 27 was licensing and
[2:10:54] fees. We missed that, but I did read
[2:10:56] from my slide. So, what I want you to
[2:10:59] look at now is page 20. That's the next
[2:11:02] slide. And let's read this together.
[2:11:05] >> Hey Christie, on this you might not want
[2:11:07] to comment, but uh it took me forever to
[2:11:10] understand that last page. Is it okay if
[2:11:13] I explain it once?
[2:11:14] >> Go right ahead.
[2:11:15] >> If you go back up. So, I didn't
[2:11:17] understand this. This
[2:11:18] >> We can't hear you.
[2:11:19] >> Sorry. I didn't understand this. This
[2:11:20] really helps.
[2:11:21] >> Uh, so this year we did not raise
[2:11:25] property taxes. Every city had the
[2:11:28] opportunity.
[2:11:28] >> Talk to your microphone.
[2:11:29] >> Every city had the opportunity to do
[2:11:30] that. We did not do that. So, your
[2:11:32] property taxes never raise
[2:11:36] unless we vote on them to raise. Your
[2:11:39] home goes up in value. It doesn't
[2:11:41] change. we vote on a absolute number
[2:11:44] that we're going to take in. Say it was
[2:11:47] 2.9 million. That's what we get no
[2:11:49] matter what. If um if some people's
[2:11:54] house people's house because their
[2:11:56] neighborhood goes up in value, that just
[2:11:58] means it gets distributed amongst all of
[2:12:02] us a little bit different. So, I just
[2:12:04] looked at mine. Our rate stayed the
[2:12:07] exact same because we did not vote to
[2:12:09] raise property taxes. Um, and so our
[2:12:12] number should be pretty much exactly the
[2:12:14] same on Alpine City. Mine is a
[2:12:16] difference of like $40, a difference of
[2:12:19] like $4. So it stays the same. So I
[2:12:22] didn't understand that. So that's what
[2:12:24] that green line is. Our rate is going
[2:12:26] down. That's just the percentage that
[2:12:28] we're all charged, but it's the same
[2:12:30] dollar amount. We're all we're all
[2:12:32] paying the exact
[2:12:33] >> in total
[2:12:34] >> in the same total amount.
[2:12:36] >> Yeah. just like yours went up by 40.
[2:12:37] Somebody else probably went down by 40
[2:12:39] like to get to the same number.
[2:12:40] >> So maybe the housing changed a little
[2:12:43] bit of value or they just found out and
[2:12:45] wanted to ding me. But uh yeah, anyways,
[2:12:48] that that helped me to
[2:12:49] >> and the only reason the red line is
[2:12:50] going up is because we have a few more
[2:12:51] homes built each year,
[2:12:52] >> right?
[2:12:53] >> So I guess this is the biggest
[2:12:54] misconception I think of the residents
[2:12:56] of of of property taxes. I've lived in
[2:12:58] four states and one US territory, owned
[2:13:00] homes in all five places. Utah is very
[2:13:03] unique in that when your property values
[2:13:07] increase, it doesn't automatically
[2:13:08] increase your property taxes.
[2:13:09] >> The amount you pay.
[2:13:10] >> Yeah. The amount you paid, the amount of
[2:13:11] your tax. So, in the I think in the 12
[2:13:14] years I've lived here, it's it's been
[2:13:16] raised twice. Um and so all the other
[2:13:19] raises have been because of the county
[2:13:21] or the school district or one of the
[2:13:22] other taxing authorities.
[2:13:23] >> Yep.
[2:13:24] >> So, it's just a big misconception that,
[2:13:25] hey, my my my property values doubled in
[2:13:28] 10 years. I'm paying double the tax.
[2:13:31] You're not.
[2:13:31] >> Right. So, we were talking to the
[2:13:33] assessor yesterday and he's getting all
[2:13:36] the calls from people because we just
[2:13:38] got our notices. He's getting the calls
[2:13:40] saying, "Why did my property taxes go
[2:13:44] up? You just assessed my house at
[2:13:46] bigger." Well, it's not him, it's bodies
[2:13:50] like us that are making those go up. The
[2:13:53] problem is there's like three or four of
[2:13:54] them. There's the school district like
[2:13:57] she said, there's the county and there's
[2:13:59] the city and then a bunch of water
[2:14:01] districts and you have the whole list of
[2:14:04] each one so you can kind of So that's
[2:14:06] the only way it goes up is through
[2:14:07] people like us. So tell us what you want
[2:14:11] and don't want. That's what I'm trying
[2:14:13] to say.
[2:14:13] >> We'll get to that. Andrew, you're
[2:14:15] jumping the gun. That was really good.
[2:14:16] No took me to understand it. I didn't
[2:14:19] get it.
[2:14:19] >> Yeah. No, that's what the finance
[2:14:22] committee concluded was the most people
[2:14:24] that important people that need to
[2:14:26] understand it are are the people sitting
[2:14:27] in these chairs.
[2:14:28] >> And the last tiny thing is say 40 new
[2:14:31] homes come in. I thought, oh great, that
[2:14:34] will disperse our property tax amongst
[2:14:37] more people and we'll all go down.
[2:14:39] Sadly, no. I thought that would be the
[2:14:41] case. What it does is it takes our base
[2:14:43] 2.9 million that we have voted on years
[2:14:47] and years ago and it just adds that to
[2:14:50] be
[2:14:51] >> But that's not sad.
[2:14:52] >> No, it's not sad. I just meant
[2:14:54] >> when you when you bring in new
[2:14:55] residents, it increases costs.
[2:14:56] >> Yeah. It increases.
[2:14:58] >> We have new roads to maintain.
[2:15:00] >> It doesn't disperse it. It increases the
[2:15:01] to so it goes up to like three million.
[2:15:04] >> If you wanted to, you could you could go
[2:15:06] up three slides and that's the increase,
[2:15:08] right? The green go up right there.
[2:15:10] Thank you, Kayen. The green line is like
[2:15:12] the and then sometimes you know your
[2:15:15] value can go up or down and then um it's
[2:15:18] one exception is new growth authorized
[2:15:20] by the county and state. So that that
[2:15:22] they they take that out of the whole
[2:15:24] calculation before. Okay, let's go back
[2:15:27] now. Now let's read page 20. Okay, are
[2:15:31] we ready? Okay. One of the best
[2:15:33] indicators of future revenue and
[2:15:35] expenditures can be found by examining
[2:15:37] the average actual growth trend of each
[2:15:40] of the major categories over the past
[2:15:42] three to five years. As newly new newly
[2:15:44] elected officials head into their first
[2:15:46] budget process, they should understand
[2:15:49] the actual revenue and expenditures
[2:15:51] patterns of the past so they can discern
[2:15:53] if both revenue and expenditure
[2:15:55] projections make sense. And then there's
[2:15:57] some examples. So, our my ever willing
[2:16:00] um resident um did these calculations
[2:16:04] and um let's look at sales tax first. Um
[2:16:08] we just pull these. You can these are
[2:16:09] all on the state website. Um there's a
[2:16:11] transparency website that has every
[2:16:13] city, every every little thing you ever
[2:16:16] wanted to know is on this the
[2:16:17] transparency website. Here we go. So,
[2:16:20] and it's also on our Alpine City
[2:16:21] website. But, um here's our sales tax
[2:16:24] collection. So, let's look for a second.
[2:16:27] What happened in 2018? This is a quiz,
[2:16:29] council members. What happened in 2018
[2:16:32] that our sales tax went up 14%.
[2:16:35] Anyone remember? It was the Wayfair
[2:16:38] decision. Sorry, I gave it away.
[2:16:39] >> Online sales.
[2:16:41] >> It was the Supreme Court decision that
[2:16:43] gave us the authority.
[2:16:45] >> Yes.
[2:16:46] >> Online.
[2:16:47] sales.
[2:16:48] >> Yes. And then what happened again? Look
[2:16:49] at COVID 2020, 21, and 22 like it went
[2:16:53] through the roof.
[2:16:55] because people were staying home. They
[2:16:57] were not um venturing out. So, what do
[2:17:00] you think was going on in our in our
[2:17:01] neighbors cities that were relying on
[2:17:03] brickandmortar sales?
[2:17:06] They were struggling. Hence, we got CO
[2:17:09] money.
[2:17:09] >> They also got increases for online sales
[2:17:11] as well. So, there was a a give and take
[2:17:13] there.
[2:17:14] >> True. Well, not always. So, um while
[2:17:18] we're talking about sales tax, yeah,
[2:17:20] this is a good time because they use the
[2:17:22] disinfectant wipes on their things.
[2:17:23] >> [laughter]
[2:17:24] >> Um, I'm glad you said that. So, we have
[2:17:27] a neighbor. Well, we'll talk about that
[2:17:28] later. You You remember that thought?
[2:17:31] Okay, let's look at property tax then.
[2:17:32] Right here, you can see it went up um
[2:17:35] these way uh every year. Well, what in
[2:17:38] the world happened in 2020?
[2:17:42] >> Truth and taxation
[2:17:43] >> property tax increase by the city
[2:17:45] council.
[2:17:46] >> That's right. And what happened in 2023?
[2:17:50] >> And I tried to fight that, by the way.
[2:17:52] >> Okay. Okay. Well, now you're here. You
[2:17:53] can fight it louder.
[2:17:54] >> Those are the two and the 12 years that
[2:17:56] I referenced earlier.
[2:17:57] >> Yes. Those are the only two years in 12
[2:17:59] that have ever we change we've ever
[2:18:01] increased the rate. Shane, would since
[2:18:04] you were you're the only one who lived
[2:18:05] through that, can you remind us what
[2:18:07] happened then?
[2:18:08] >> Yeah. So, the the first tax increase uh
[2:18:11] occurred
[2:18:12] uh there in 2020 when Cedar Hills left
[2:18:16] the public safety district and it left
[2:18:19] Highland and Alpine there. and it wasn't
[2:18:22] like all of their costs went away. So,
[2:18:25] both cities uh had more costs to deal
[2:18:29] with. And so, that was that tax
[2:18:31] increase. The second one uh it was it
[2:18:35] was two things really. Uh some of that
[2:18:37] was for public safety and some was for
[2:18:40] projects. Um after CO the cost of
[2:18:43] projects just went through the roof and
[2:18:46] so um the city actually held the rate
[2:18:50] from the year before which generated um
[2:18:53] more property tax revenue and we've been
[2:18:56] able to kind of sustain that since then
[2:18:59] without another increase. A lot of
[2:19:01] cities did an increase this year.
[2:19:03] >> Yeah, they did.
[2:19:04] >> Oh yeah, they're going through it.
[2:19:06] So you can see if you look at the non
[2:19:09] non-truth and taxation years, that's
[2:19:11] really just our growth rate. Like what
[2:19:13] did we add to our city um new homes, you
[2:19:17] know?
[2:19:18] >> Yeah. So it's kind of our growth rate of
[2:19:21] our city. Okay.
[2:19:22] >> Can I make a can I make a comment before
[2:19:23] we go on?
[2:19:23] >> Please do.
[2:19:24] >> So two things. One is when a when a tax
[2:19:27] is increased, a property tax increase,
[2:19:29] it's there permanently. So you saw the increase in 2020, it it applies
[2:19:35] every year after that, which Okay. And
[2:19:38] the second comment I'll [snorts] make is
[2:19:40] because of the truth and tax taxation
[2:19:43] laws in Utah, um
[2:19:48] we we can only increase the revenue
[2:19:50] outside of sales tax gradually
[2:19:52] increasing by raising taxes. Whereas in
[2:19:56] all these years that we did not raise
[2:19:57] taxes, inflation continues. Not just
[2:20:00] purchasing items for the city, materials
[2:20:04] for the fire department for example, was
[2:20:06] much more expensive than when the
[2:20:08] conversation was started several years
[2:20:09] ago, but also the cost of uh personnel.
[2:20:14] So all these inflationary costs keep
[2:20:15] going up yet our revenue stays flat. So
[2:20:18] at some point a couple like Alpine's
[2:20:21] been very fortunate that only two years
[2:20:22] in the last 12 property tax I don't know
[2:20:25] what happened before that before I moved
[2:20:26] here the property taxes have been raised
[2:20:29] but it just it's a matter of fact it has
[2:20:31] to happen because of the continued
[2:20:33] increase in costs. Does that make sense?
[2:20:36] >> Yes.
[2:20:36] >> If we want to maintain our current level
[2:20:38] of service to the residents.
[2:20:39] >> Brent just a thought. I'll try to use
[2:20:42] this as gentle as possible because
[2:20:44] someone's been flinging it on me and
[2:20:47] that is they're doing the uh projections
[2:20:51] of what the CPI has been over the last
[2:20:53] 10 years, meaning the basically the
[2:20:56] inflation rate and how much that has
[2:20:59] grown. And they're comparing that to
[2:21:02] what property taxes have been raised in
[2:21:04] the same decade. We're over like 200%
[2:21:06] over on our raising the taxes versus the
[2:21:10] inflation.
[2:21:12] They're doing it with several other
[2:21:13] numbers as well. So, it's just something
[2:21:14] to think about. We I I understand the
[2:21:16] inflation, but we we may have gone over
[2:21:19] the top.
[2:21:19] >> But if you No, if you listen to what
[2:21:21] Shane's explanation was, there was a
[2:21:22] structural change in the way
[2:21:24] >> I'm not saying we like specifically I
[2:21:26] just
[2:21:27] >> No, no, but that was the only reason is
[2:21:28] because we we we three cities were
[2:21:31] participating in the cost of running.
[2:21:33] >> Right. Right. No,
[2:21:34] >> when we lost that, we had to make that
[2:21:35] up.
[2:21:36] >> No, no, I know. Not that not that
[2:21:38] specific. I just meant inflation in
[2:21:40] general. Okay.
[2:21:41] >> Not that I understand that.
[2:21:42] >> Yeah.
[2:21:44] >> And I do think I mean we're above the
[2:21:46] CPI in our increase in sales tax, but I
[2:21:48] do think it's because we're we're
[2:21:50] ecommerce has become such more of a
[2:21:52] driver. That That's my personal opinion.
[2:21:55] I'm not an economist, but I I wish I
[2:21:57] were. No, I'm just kidding. Okay.
[2:21:58] [snorts] All right. Here we go. Let's
[2:22:00] So, what caught my eye in my little deep
[2:22:02] dive into revenue? I found this report
[2:22:04] that was produced by the Utah Taxpayers
[2:22:06] Association. And if you're not familiar
[2:22:08] with them, they represent the taxpayers,
[2:22:10] not the government, right? So, I don't
[2:22:13] want to say we're the enemy, but you
[2:22:15] know, I was on the school board for
[2:22:16] eight years. They treated us like we
[2:22:18] were the enemy. So, um, but they're very
[2:22:21] they're they are very they're very good
[2:22:22] in their research. They have so they
[2:22:24] have really good reports. Um, I really
[2:22:26] appreciated and they took the time to
[2:22:29] talk to me and produce this report
[2:22:31] because um, they had this report on the
[2:22:33] top 50 cities in the state of Utah and
[2:22:36] we didn't make the cut. We didn't have a
[2:22:38] big enough population. So I said, "Hey,
[2:22:40] can you just give me those same data for
[2:22:42] Alpine?" Oh yeah, no problem. Can you
[2:22:44] just add our neighbors, too? Because
[2:22:46] somehow we like to always compare
[2:22:48] ourselves to our neighbors. So this was
[2:22:50] uh courtesy of the Utah taxpayers
[2:22:52] association using all the re the data
[2:22:54] that's available um to public in the
[2:22:58] public. So um a couple little things
[2:23:00] because they represent the taxpayer they
[2:23:03] want to look at everything on per capita
[2:23:05] income data. So they look at our
[2:23:08] population, they look at our income, and
[2:23:10] so this is like basically per capita
[2:23:13] what we pay. Um our residents pay per
[2:23:17] 865,
[2:23:19] Highland 731, and Cedar Hills 832. So we
[2:23:24] do pay the highest, right? But if you
[2:23:26] look at it relative to our income, then
[2:23:29] it's um it's not as high because we have
[2:23:32] higher income. So, we pay less for
[2:23:35] $1,000 of the citizen. See how it's 12?
[2:23:38] I guess Highland pays less, too. Less
[2:23:39] than us. Okay. If you have questions
[2:23:42] about these numbers, we can go over
[2:23:43] them. Um uh they they didn't look at all
[2:23:47] the all the revenue sources like grants
[2:23:50] or um uh certain things that we get
[2:23:54] paid. Uh they only looked at these three
[2:23:56] revenue sources. And so in the at the
[2:23:59] end of the day um they came up with the
[2:24:02] percentage that each of these cities
[2:24:04] including Alpine pays. So sales tax is
[2:24:07] lower than property tax which is
[2:24:09] unusual. You can see the other two
[2:24:11] cities they they pay they receive almost
[2:24:14] twice as much sales tax as property tax.
[2:24:17] And then other taxes and fees they also
[2:24:19] have a higher percentage from that. So,
[2:24:21] our residents are paying a greater
[2:24:24] proportion um of revenues or we're
[2:24:27] receiving, I should say, we're receiving
[2:24:29] a greater proportion of revenues from
[2:24:31] property tax than our two neighbors.
[2:24:33] Again, to Brent's point, because we
[2:24:35] don't have retail. So, um in talking to
[2:24:38] the sales tax commission, um it's very
[2:24:41] private information. All she could give
[2:24:43] me was the percentages, but I said,
[2:24:44] "Well, how is it that we collect, you
[2:24:46] know, similar dollars as sales tax to
[2:24:50] Cedar Hills?" And how much of that is
[2:24:52] e-commerce? She couldn't give me more
[2:24:54] than the fact that Cedar Hills um gets
[2:24:56] about 40% of their sales tax from
[2:24:58] e-commerce where we are 80%. So they do
[2:25:02] get a lot from um all the you know like
[2:25:05] there's Walmart, there's other uh
[2:25:07] restaurants. I don't there's a storage
[2:25:09] place. I don't know what else is in
[2:25:11] Cedar Hills, but they they collect on
[2:25:13] site. They collect on site and we don't
[2:25:15] really have a place for that. Um
[2:25:17] Highland charges um Okay. And then
[2:25:19] Highland was very interesting because if
[2:25:22] you public information, if you go to
[2:25:24] their fee chart, you can see that they
[2:25:26] charge $15.25
[2:25:28] for safety and wait and $1850. Did I get
[2:25:32] that right? Public safety is$,525 and
[2:25:34] transportation is $1850.
[2:25:36] >> That's a month, right?
[2:25:37] >> Monthly on their utility bill. So, after
[2:25:40] you get charged for water, garbage
[2:25:42] collection, sewer, there's also a fee
[2:25:45] for safety and transportation, um,
[2:25:48] public safety and transportation. And
[2:25:50] so, they've chosen that way. Um, whether
[2:25:53] or not that's fully transparent, that is
[2:25:56] how how they have operated. And Highland
[2:25:59] generates more than $2 million from
[2:26:01] these specific fees paid monthly.
[2:26:06] But the the legislature isn't happy
[2:26:07] about it. and they they put an end to
[2:26:09] it. So, um that's that's there's some
[2:26:14] other loopholes which we will not
[2:26:15] digress into. Okay. So, the whole point
[2:26:18] of this is what is the impact on our
[2:26:20] families like the way they're paying
[2:26:21] their taxes. So, I thought that that was
[2:26:24] just an interesting look by the Utah
[2:26:25] Taxpayers Association. Let's go now to
[2:26:28] the next slide. Okay. So, this is where
[2:26:31] we come in is I think Brent mentioned um
[2:26:34] that there's we've only raised taxes in
[2:26:36] twice since 12 years. I'm sorry, gone
[2:26:39] through the truth and taxation process.
[2:26:41] So, there's some cities that just
[2:26:42] routinely make little just adjustments
[2:26:45] for inflation every year for property
[2:26:47] tax and they just say truth and taxation
[2:26:50] is just going to be a standard process
[2:26:52] we just go through every year. Um when I
[2:26:54] went to the Utah League of City and
[2:26:56] Towns, this was discussed in that I took
[2:26:58] a truth and taxation class. Some feel
[2:27:00] like it's better to just keep up with
[2:27:02] inflation than they get way behind and
[2:27:04] then do this huge 40% jump like we chose
[2:27:07] to do. That's been our policy. So, um
[2:27:10] that's just some other cities are doing
[2:27:12] it differently. Other cities have chosen
[2:27:14] to use fees. Well, that's not even a
[2:27:17] choice anymore. They took that off the
[2:27:18] table. So, we can't do that. So, um, one
[2:27:22] of I picked this picture here because
[2:27:24] how do we, um, what we need to do as a
[2:27:27] council is balance our fiduciary
[2:27:29] responsibility to provide services with
[2:27:32] a burden of taxes for our residents and
[2:27:35] looking at things from a different
[2:27:37] perspective like the um the the report
[2:27:41] from the Utah Taxpayers Association that
[2:27:43] brings it down to like a per capita
[2:27:45] level is really insightful versus like
[2:27:47] looking at everything in just total
[2:27:49] numbers. So, it's just something to
[2:27:51] think about. Um, this is not we're not
[2:27:53] making any policy decisions here, but
[2:27:55] just um educating ourselves. So, um I
[2:27:59] think when um Steve Burroughs talked
[2:28:00] about um land use and water, they are
[2:28:04] they're in inf they're tied very tightly
[2:28:07] together. Well, you know what? Revenue
[2:28:10] and um land use are very tied very
[2:28:13] tightly together. and um our brand new
[2:28:16] city assistant administrator gave a
[2:28:18] presentation when he worked in a
[2:28:20] different city and he's going to share
[2:28:21] some insights right now.
[2:28:24] Thank you, Council Member Hanamman. So,
[2:28:26] yeah, just to think about it, um how we
[2:28:30] use our land and how that reflects on
[2:28:32] our on our budget bottom lines. So, you
[2:28:35] can see in this top right corner, um
[2:28:38] there's two different parcels here that
[2:28:40] are being shown. Let me zoom in a little
[2:28:42] bit. One is um on a main street and one
[2:28:46] is in a traditional suburban
[2:28:48] development. They're both about uh worth
[2:28:51] an acre or sorry a million dollars or
[2:28:53] more. Uh but this one is on5 of an acre
[2:28:58] and this one is 1.1 acre. If you just do
[2:29:02] basic math and try to determine how much
[2:29:06] uh what's the value per acre of each of
[2:29:08] these parcels, you can see that this
[2:29:11] parcel, if you go up to an acre, is
[2:29:13] valued at almost $10 million, which
[2:29:16] would be $102,000 of taxes per acre. And
[2:29:20] then this one would be a lot less than
[2:29:23] that over
[2:29:26] u well, this would be 23 times more
[2:29:28] valuable than this one. So, I think this
[2:29:31] is just trying to show that land use and
[2:29:34] how we determine we're going to use our
[2:29:35] land definitely affects uh the revenue
[2:29:39] we can generate from each parcel. Um,
[2:29:42] obviously
[2:29:44] balancing mixed use with residential is
[2:29:46] always the goal of a city. You don't
[2:29:48] want every parcel to be mixed use or
[2:29:50] commercial. Um, but it's always
[2:29:52] important to balance uh both those
[2:29:54] things to have a financially resilient
[2:29:56] city.
[2:29:58] We have forgot to mention, would you
[2:29:59] tell them about the the resident
[2:30:01] exclusion?
[2:30:04] >> Oh, yeah. And part of part of this this
[2:30:05] actually might be lower taxes per acre
[2:30:07] on the resident side because there's a
[2:30:08] 45%
[2:30:10] uh resident reduction in the state of
[2:30:12] Utah for for taxes on on their home and
[2:30:15] one acre of their property. So, um so
[2:30:18] it's even cheaper per acre for
[2:30:20] residential parcels.
[2:30:23] So, and commercial properties are 100%
[2:30:26] taxed. So they're a lot more valuable
[2:30:28] for city re revenue.
[2:30:32] >> Yeah.
[2:30:33] >> Okay. Your next slide. I think you're
[2:30:36] still on the next one. Oh no. This is
[2:30:38] this I already I already got on my soap
[2:30:40] box about how Oh, I know. I know at this
[2:30:43] point. Then I'm going to give it back to
[2:30:44] Kaden. This one I was saying um if you
[2:30:48] like what's the most important thing for us to to provide services? Well, it
[2:30:53] really depends on the person you talk
[2:30:55] to. Even women have different values
[2:30:58] than men. And so you can't always base
[2:31:01] decisions based on the three people that
[2:31:03] you talk to or that are on your text
[2:31:05] string. We have to look for more data to
[2:31:08] understand. And so um o down here is
[2:31:12] where do we rank um with the o our
[2:31:15] overall tax burden and we're 19th in the
[2:31:18] country um but only 38th in property tax
[2:31:22] which means we have a low property tax
[2:31:24] burden. But if you look at mandatory
[2:31:26] fees, didn't we just talk about fees?
[2:31:28] We're seventh. So we we really use fees
[2:31:31] as a way to drive revenue in the state
[2:31:33] of Utah. Just just thinking about how do
[2:31:36] we generate revenue and if you lived in
[2:31:38] a different neighboring city, they would
[2:31:39] be generating it a different way. Okay.
[2:31:41] I Kaden, I think you're the next one,
[2:31:43] too.
[2:31:43] >> Yeah, you are.
[2:31:44] >> So just two graphics here. I like that
[2:31:46] Chrissy put in here. Land uses the
[2:31:47] invisible hand. So we have this graphic
[2:31:50] that shows the comparison of a
[2:31:51] traditional downtown mixeduse building.
[2:31:54] uh with both residences and commercial
[2:31:56] uses and then just like a traditional
[2:31:58] big box store, Walmart. Um a big box
[2:32:01] store consumes way more land and the
[2:32:05] total property taxes per acre are
[2:32:07] roughly 97 times higher for the a
[2:32:11] mixeduse building in on a main street
[2:32:13] than a big box store. Um there's more
[2:32:18] jobs that could be created per acre. um
[2:32:21] residents living there per acre and
[2:32:24] sales tax uh per acre as well. So um the
[2:32:27] cool thing about land use, it's really
[2:32:28] just thinking about how you're using
[2:32:30] each acre of your of your land in your
[2:32:32] city because the most valuable resource,
[2:32:34] as we learned today, is water and land
[2:32:38] in a city. Um this graphic also shows
[2:32:41] kind of the same thing. So you can see
[2:32:43] 44 acres are needed for this uh big box
[2:32:47] store to operate. You can look in these
[2:32:49] little
[2:32:51] uh snapshots of how how much land that
[2:32:54] takes up compared to a main street in
[2:32:56] all these different cities in North
[2:32:57] Carolina.
[2:32:59] Um the the dark red on the main street
[2:33:02] shows value per acre. And so you can see
[2:33:05] how valuable kind of those parcels are
[2:33:06] on the main street uh of these of these
[2:33:09] towns. And also shows it here kind of
[2:33:13] the value per acre of each parcel if you were to take it out to an acre.
[2:33:17] So I think this just demonstrates like
[2:33:19] really per acre if you had 44 acres of
[2:33:24] productive mixeduse buildings which
[2:33:26] obviously is unrealistic but just for
[2:33:28] the hypothetical they would be way more
[2:33:31] revenue generating for a city than even
[2:33:34] a traditional big box store which
[2:33:36] usually everyone totes as the the best
[2:33:39] way to generate sales tax for a city. Um
[2:33:42] so just keeping that in mind really it's
[2:33:44] just how we use our land what we allow
[2:33:47] um balancing mixed uh mixed uses
[2:33:50] residential commercial um remembering
[2:33:53] that land is our most valuable resource
[2:33:54] to generate revenue.
[2:33:57] >> Thank you.
[2:33:59] Okay. What's our next slide? I can't
[2:34:02] remember. Okay. All right. So, one thing
[2:34:05] again by working with the um state tax
[2:34:08] commission in our in our deep dive into
[2:34:11] revenue sales tax only, we spent a full
[2:34:14] hour on it. The person that was teaching
[2:34:16] us mentioned that when we annex um land
[2:34:20] into our city, we need to work with them
[2:34:22] so that we're now collecting those
[2:34:24] revenues. So without changing the
[2:34:27] dynamics of um you know like like Kaden
[2:34:32] mentioned like building our downtown
[2:34:33] area or changing density any of those
[2:34:36] kinds of things um just getting property
[2:34:40] annexed will add to our sales tax. Also
[2:34:44] property tax um when you are annexed
[2:34:47] into the city you can get you will get
[2:34:49] we will collect those taxes as well. So
[2:34:52] other than annexation, we don't really
[2:34:55] have any levers to pull for sales tax.
[2:34:58] Like there's nothing really to do. Um I
[2:35:01] mean we can we can encourage or
[2:35:04] incentivize retail space here, but our
[2:35:07] residents are not pro- retail. So I
[2:35:10] think later in our meeting we might be
[2:35:12] talking about one retail store that you
[2:35:15] know may work in our that would work in
[2:35:17] our city and that is like pretty niche.
[2:35:20] You know, we always talk about Burgess
[2:35:22] Orchard, but Burgess Orchard, the the
[2:35:24] sales per visit is pretty low. And so we
[2:35:28] when we talk about things, the invisible
[2:35:31] hand being whether we're talking about
[2:35:33] annexation or um let's go to the next
[2:35:35] one. I think that's my last thing.
[2:35:38] Whether we're talking about annexation
[2:35:39] or density or um or commercial versus
[2:35:43] zoning, commercial versus residential,
[2:35:46] like sometimes we're talking about
[2:35:47] height, we're talking about setbacks,
[2:35:49] we're talking about uh parking, we're
[2:35:52] talking about design. Let's not forget
[2:35:54] to talk about what is the impact of
[2:35:56] revenue. Okay? When we're talking about
[2:35:58] annexation, we talk a lot about the
[2:36:00] trails. We talk a lot about, you know,
[2:36:03] what is the density, what is the slope,
[2:36:05] you know, all of these things. Did we
[2:36:07] talk about the revenue that's that's
[2:36:09] generated by the annexation? And I just
[2:36:11] feel like that that we now that we
[2:36:13] understand it, it can be part of our
[2:36:15] discussion.
[2:36:16] >> And if you recall in the prior council
[2:36:18] when there was an annexation petition,
[2:36:20] you and I voted for it. We talked about
[2:36:21] the increase in property taxes, but I
[2:36:24] for failed to realize that of those 58
[2:36:27] homes, there's also an e-commerce sales
[2:36:30] tax revenue increase,
[2:36:31] >> right,
[2:36:32] >> that we didn't talk about. So that's
[2:36:34] very helpful for that, too. So, in all
[2:36:35] of these three things we've talked
[2:36:36] about, remember these are ongoing
[2:36:38] revenues. And this these are things you
[2:36:40] can budget. You can budget for raises,
[2:36:42] you can budget for um additional staff,
[2:36:45] you can budget for things that are we
[2:36:47] need to maintain our level of service,
[2:36:50] but grants are great, but they just come
[2:36:52] once and they you know what I mean? And
[2:36:54] so, don't count on them to pay for their
[2:36:57] ongoing cost of the city. So, again, I'm
[2:36:59] going to use my same quote um as we
[2:37:02] continue to have these discussions. That
[2:37:04] was the whole point of um talking about
[2:37:07] these topics was the future is not
[2:37:09] something that you enter, it is
[2:37:11] something that you create. Think about
[2:37:13] our future. That's my final quote of the
[2:37:15] day.
[2:37:15] >> See, thank you very much Chrissy and
[2:37:17] Kaden for that. And in the interest of
[2:37:19] time, if you have any any additional
[2:37:21] questions or thoughts you'd like to
[2:37:22] share, we can do that amongst ourselves
[2:37:24] as this is not an action item.
[2:37:26] >> Uh Mayor Rumler, just one quick thing.
[2:37:29] It's because it's an
[2:37:31] >> 10 please or whatever.
[2:37:33] It's an ask for help. So, just one thing
[2:37:35] as it's on this topic, it won't get
[2:37:36] brought up. Thank you. And I love the
[2:37:38] quotes. One thing I could use some help
[2:37:40] with. So, I was talking to the assessor
[2:37:43] yesterday and I said, "Look, I know you
[2:37:45] keep shifting from property tax to sales
[2:37:48] tax and you just keep saying there
[2:37:50] should is there any other option that
[2:37:52] people are going outside of these to
[2:37:54] find other sources of revenues?" He
[2:37:56] said, "Yeah, there's a couple, but one
[2:37:57] you're going to hate, but if you can
[2:37:59] figure out a different way for Utah or
[2:38:01] for Alpine, it'll really help." So,
[2:38:02] that's why I was hoping you put your
[2:38:03] thinking caps on because, you know, all
[2:38:05] of our minds. So, the big one is the
[2:38:07] lottery. That's what other people are
[2:38:09] doing.
[2:38:10] >> Obviously, we hate the Oh, sorry. I do
[2:38:12] not like the lottery. Maybe you like uh
[2:38:14] and so, but if you can think of
[2:38:15] something like that, that is what other
[2:38:18] places do to take the burden off the
[2:38:21] residents from sales tax and property
[2:38:23] tax. Um he also said mines. Some some
[2:38:27] cities have mines, some cities have um
[2:38:31] uh utilities. Now those are probably not
[2:38:34] in our wheelhouse, but if we can come up
[2:38:36] with some creative options that can
[2:38:37] allow us to increase our This is what
[2:38:39] he's saying. You can come up with these.
[2:38:40] The residents can come up with these. If
[2:38:42] you can figure out something uh
[2:38:45] basically the opposite of the lottery,
[2:38:46] but does the same thing. You can reduce
[2:38:48] your property taxes dramatically. reduce
[2:38:50] your sales tax or you don't need to.
[2:38:53] You're not required to get so much
[2:38:54] because you're getting so much from this
[2:38:55] other source. That's all I was going to
[2:38:56] say. So, if you have any other ideas,
[2:38:58] I'm searching trying. If you have better
[2:39:00] ones, let me know. Okay. Same with the
[2:39:01] residents. If you come up with anything.
[2:39:04] All right. Thank you. All right. We will
[2:39:07] move to the action item portion of our
[2:39:10] agenda. And Chris, you I think you came
[2:39:13] after this, but we moved action item A
[2:39:15] into the consent calendar and was
[2:39:16] approved there. It was just a
[2:39:18] clarification from the motion from two
[2:39:19] weeks ago. All right, we'll talk about
[2:39:21] the site plan approval. Long range
[2:39:23] shooters of Utah and I'll have I'll ask
[2:39:26] our staff to present that.
[2:39:30] Thank you, council member. So, I think
[2:39:32] everyone is familiar with this now. Um
[2:39:36] it's been on the on the agenda a few
[2:39:37] times now. So I won't go into a lot of
[2:39:39] detail on on the background, but um this
[2:39:42] is for a new uh retail
[2:39:45] uh small retail gun shop to provide u
[2:39:48] you know different things like
[2:39:49] accessories, bipods, rifles, and it
[2:39:52] includes a warehouse space for office
[2:39:54] and space for uh to film content in and
[2:39:57] a residence above the office area. So,
[2:40:00] the last time this was brought before
[2:40:01] council, it was tabled to consider
[2:40:06] getting an exception to the parking lot
[2:40:08] code for stall one and to provide a
[2:40:10] sweat path analysis for the parking. So,
[2:40:13] the parking stall one since it's a
[2:40:14] 90°ree parking stall, it requires 42
[2:40:17] feet 24T of aisle space for backing out.
[2:40:21] And so, the applicant has met that
[2:40:23] requirement and updated their site plan
[2:40:26] uh accordingly. And additionally, the
[2:40:29] staff went through a sweep path analysis
[2:40:32] with an engineering consultant. And the
[2:40:34] results from that sweep path analysis
[2:40:37] demonstrate the ability for vehicles to
[2:40:39] back out of the parking stalls and exit
[2:40:40] the site in a forward motion as required
[2:40:42] by by code.
[2:40:45] So, it was motioned in the that the
[2:40:47] applicant return to the planning
[2:40:48] commission to receive the parking lot
[2:40:50] exception in 32430 of the Alpine
[2:40:53] Development Code. Since the motion was
[2:40:55] made, as I was just talking about, the
[2:40:57] applicant has shifted their site plan to
[2:40:58] meet all code requirements and therefore
[2:41:00] no longer is in need of the exception.
[2:41:03] So a return to plan commission would be
[2:41:05] ineffective. And so per Alpine City
[2:41:07] Attorney's suggestion and because they
[2:41:09] no longer need the exception, the
[2:41:11] council u should consider entertaining a
[2:41:14] motion tonight to recognize the SWAT
[2:41:16] path analysis performed and excuse staff
[2:41:19] from referring the application to the
[2:41:20] planning commission so that the council
[2:41:22] can consider the site plan in this
[2:41:24] meeting. So I have a motion for the
[2:41:26] council to do that tonight. Um
[2:41:30] and the staff would recommend that they
[2:41:32] consider doing that. uh consider the
[2:41:35] site plan uh because it meets uh the it
[2:41:39] didn't need the exception and has been
[2:41:42] referred back to the council to motion
[2:41:44] to allow them to the council to consider
[2:41:46] it tonight and then to go forward and
[2:41:49] approve the site plan being that it
[2:41:51] meets the code requirements.
[2:41:54] That was a lot of talking. Let me just
[2:41:56] go now to the site plan.
[2:42:01] Katie, while you're going there, will
[2:42:02] you just um just let us know when was
[2:42:05] this last updated? Just
[2:42:08] >> Yeah. So, this last week.
[2:42:10] >> This last week before Friday.
[2:42:12] >> Yes.
[2:42:12] >> Okay.
[2:42:12] >> Yes. In fact, now I think I might be
[2:42:15] jumping the gun. Steve, should they do
[2:42:17] the motion first um to consider the item
[2:42:20] tonight? Would you say
[2:42:28] » you could? I don't think it's necessary.
[2:42:30] As long as you incorporate in the
[2:42:32] motion, the suggested motion from staff,
[2:42:34] I think that takes care of the um what
[2:42:38] the item was tabled for and you
[2:42:41] recognize that in your motion to approve
[2:42:44] or to deny.
[2:42:46] >> So combine the two then in that way.
[2:42:49] >> Yeah, I think I would just follow the
[2:42:51] suggested motion in the staff report.
[2:42:53] >> Great.
[2:42:56] » We got an email today. At least I
[2:42:59] received an email. I showed it to Shane
[2:43:00] right before the meeting. I think you
[2:43:02] got a copy of it from the applicant with
[2:43:05] a uh a couple of different things. One
[2:43:08] included a in response to neighbors
[2:43:11] concerns about addition concerns about
[2:43:15] the parking the vehicles backing up into
[2:43:18] the onto the sidewalk. The applicant
[2:43:21] added to metal planters between the
[2:43:23] parking lot and the sidewalk to create
[2:43:25] that kind of barrier. Yeah, that's why I was asking what when how up
[2:43:31] to date is the
[2:43:33] >> right stuff.
[2:43:33] >> Yeah, so that is reflected that this was
[2:43:36] that was added to the packet to show
[2:43:38] those planter boxes.
[2:43:40] >> Um the the landscaping plan was provided
[2:43:44] after last weekend.
[2:43:45] >> Yeah.
[2:43:46] >> Okay. So, we don't need to make mo a
[2:43:48] mention of that in the motion. That's
[2:43:49] what Shane had recommended if it if this
[2:43:51] didn't already consider that.
[2:43:54] >> Yeah. I I don't think so. I think you
[2:43:55] can consider it just saying the
[2:43:57] landscape planners were presented today.
[2:43:59] Um, both are actually included here. I
[2:44:02] can show both here. All it does is show
[2:44:04] those new planner boxes and um and
[2:44:08] that's really it. So,
[2:44:11] >> and just I I want I'm not going to
[2:44:12] repeat what I what I talked about two meetings ago twice. Well, we t this
[2:44:18] is the third time we've talked about
[2:44:19] this.
[2:44:19] >> Correct.
[2:44:20] >> Um,
[2:44:21] and I was Yeah. Okay.
[2:44:24] And I did listen to the discussion from
[2:44:27] two weeks ago when I was um overseas and
[2:44:29] wasn't able to participate. I just like
[2:44:32] to have you clarify why what in what of the ordinance of our statute re
[2:44:38] um as you recommend that we approve
[2:44:41] this. It's the wording is is shall
[2:44:44] recommend if it meets the requirements.
[2:44:45] Right.
[2:44:46] >> Right.
[2:44:47] >> Okay.
[2:44:48] >> Yes.
[2:44:48] >> Just want to clarify that. Okay. Any
[2:44:50] other questions for
[2:44:53] >> I think that's just reflective of the
[2:44:56] fact that this is an administrative
[2:44:57] decision and the council as a
[2:45:01] legislative body doesn't always get
[2:45:02] involved in administrative decisions
[2:45:05] according to our ordinance. This is an
[2:45:07] administrative decision the council can
[2:45:09] make. But I would stick with does this
[2:45:12] meet the code or doesn't it meet the
[2:45:15] code? Not do we like it aesthetically?
[2:45:18] Do we, you know, do we think as a policy
[2:45:20] matter it's a good or a bad idea to be
[2:45:23] in this location.
[2:45:24] >> Thank you for asking.
[2:45:25] >> Whether it meets the code,
[2:45:26] >> right? And the reason it was tabled last
[2:45:28] time was for a very specific reason
[2:45:30] that's been addressed.
[2:45:32] >> That's correct.
[2:45:33] >> So, if there are no further questions,
[2:45:34] if if anyone would like to make a
[2:45:35] motion.
[2:45:36] >> Can can I make a few comments?
[2:45:38] >> Oh, sure.
[2:45:39] >> Um, I'm just I would ask you because
[2:45:41] you're acting as mayor. um some of the
[2:45:44] residents didn't get a opportunity to
[2:45:47] make public comment and I know we've
[2:45:48] received lots of emails. Is that
[2:45:50] something that we could still facilitate
[2:45:52] for those residents?
[2:45:53] >> So, I would defer to what the mayor has
[2:45:57] um her the position that has been done
[2:45:59] in the past in the past meetings and to
[2:46:02] our guidance from our from our attorney
[2:46:07] on the public comment.
[2:46:09] >> I think that's that's up to the mayor
[2:46:11] prom. Um, the fact that they've already
[2:46:14] submitted emails tells me that the
[2:46:16] council has reviewed their comments. If
[2:46:19] it's helpful to hear it verbally here
[2:46:21] and orally in a meeting, then that's
[2:46:23] something you could take into
[2:46:24] consideration. But they've already submitted comments.
[2:46:29] So, I' I've personally read every single
[2:46:31] email and and I and I do appreciate
[2:46:35] every email that was sent and all the
[2:46:37] points that were made. And I also
[2:46:38] appreciate the applicant considering
[2:46:40] those um requests of the neighbors as
[2:46:42] well. I think the applicant meets the
[2:46:45] ordinance and has done a a commendable
[2:46:49] job of trying to work with the
[2:46:51] neighbors. I know it's not the ideal
[2:46:53] situation for some of the neighbors. Um
[2:46:55] but I do commend the applicant for for
[2:46:57] what they've done even today for
[2:46:59] addressing Mr. um Marvin Payne. I
[2:47:02] appreciate your text yesterday. Sorry I
[2:47:04] didn't respond. just getting back into
[2:47:05] the country and trying to get get caught
[2:47:09] up to everything. And you recommended a
[2:47:11] two-ft wall along that path and just the
[2:47:15] next day the applicant came back and
[2:47:17] said, "We've put planters in to address
[2:47:19] those concerns about the neighbors." So,
[2:47:21] I do appreciate that. Um, has anyone not
[2:47:25] had a chance to review all those emails?
[2:47:27] I think I'm going to stick then with
[2:47:29] what the mayor Merryill has has decided
[2:47:32] in the past and stick with our policy.
[2:47:35] >> Am I okay then to make a few question or
[2:47:38] ask a few questions, make a few
[2:47:40] comments?
[2:47:40] >> Sure.
[2:47:41] >> Okay. Are we starting that
[2:47:43] >> questions of related to this staff
[2:47:46] report or
[2:47:47] >> Yes.
[2:47:47] >> Okay. Is it that or do we do a motion
[2:47:49] and then we discuss the motion?
[2:47:52] >> I'm fine with you making go ahead and
[2:47:54] make comments. Well, I just since some
[2:47:56] of the residents were unable to make a
[2:47:57] public comment regarding this action
[2:47:59] item, as a representative of the
[2:48:01] residents, I felt it necessary for their
[2:48:04] concerns to be noted on public record.
[2:48:07] And so, I just wanted to briefly just
[2:48:09] mention some of these. Um, the primary
[2:48:12] concern that I have received that you
[2:48:14] all probably have received in your
[2:48:15] emails from them is about safety. And I
[2:48:18] really do appreciate the efforts that
[2:48:20] have been taken to do a sweat path
[2:48:21] analysis. Um, one of those concerns from
[2:48:24] the residents is, is it possible for a
[2:48:27] vehicle larger than 19 ft to exit the
[2:48:29] parking lot? Um, and what length of
[2:48:32] vehicle was used for that sweat path
[2:48:35] analysis. Um, just for reference, a
[2:48:38] pickup truck or SUV is typically 18 to
[2:48:40] 22 feet. So, I was just curious if you
[2:48:43] could give us an idea of the
[2:48:49] >> So, the industry standard is 7 by 19 ft.
[2:48:52] That's according to Ashtto engineering
[2:48:54] it guidelines and so that was what was
[2:48:56] used in the sweatpath analysis.
[2:48:59] >> Yeah,
[2:48:59] >> thank you.
[2:49:01] >> Um, is this developer required to
[2:49:03] provide visual and structural
[2:49:04] protections perhaps in the form of some
[2:49:07] type of buffer or fence between them and
[2:49:09] another property
[2:49:11] >> only where the parking exists. That that
[2:49:15] is what is required in the code. So, not
[2:49:17] on any of the north, east, or west um
[2:49:21] borders to the neighboring properties,
[2:49:23] >> right? Only only where the parking is.
[2:49:27] >> Yeah.
[2:49:28] >> Okay. And just out of curiosity, would
[2:49:29] the setbacks how would the setbacks be
[2:49:32] different if this were a home being
[2:49:34] built there versus a commercial
[2:49:36] building?
[2:49:37] >> That is a good question. I think it
[2:49:39] would be a little bit deeper. Um since
[2:49:41] I'm new here, I don't actually know the
[2:49:43] TR 10,000 for that. Setbacks 30 ft, rear
[2:49:48] 20, minimum 10 foot on a side with a
[2:49:51] total of 22.
[2:49:54] >> Thank you.
[2:49:54] >> But for clarification, this is in the
[2:49:56] business commercial zone.
[2:49:57] >> Correct.
[2:49:58] >> Yes.
[2:49:59] >> Um
[2:50:01] uh can you just walk us through what
[2:50:03] changes the the applicant made as far as
[2:50:06] like the size or the footprint? You
[2:50:08] know, I know they started with how many
[2:50:10] times have they reduced it and do you
[2:50:12] know approximately by how much?
[2:50:14] >> Yeah. So originally the building was
[2:50:19] let's see I actually don't know the
[2:50:20] original size but I know it has been
[2:50:21] reduced by 789 square feet since the
[2:50:25] original proposal. Um I can show that
[2:50:28] here.
[2:50:34] So, the retail was pushing 2,000
[2:50:39] 8 like 1,900
[2:50:41] and the garage was over 2,200 here. So,
[2:50:45] >> thank you. Um, and just to clarify on
[2:50:48] why this didn't go back to planning
[2:50:50] commission, that was more according to Steve like an
[2:50:53] administrative decision because it
[2:50:55] didn't no longer stop the exception.
[2:50:57] >> Correct.
[2:50:57] >> I just want to make sure I understand
[2:50:59] that. And then um this is I guess a
[2:51:01] little more for the applicant is do you
[2:51:04] intend on having deliveries made by
[2:51:06] large delivery trucks? Um and then if
[2:51:10] so, what is the path that you see these
[2:51:12] trucks operating?
[2:51:15] >> I can speak to that real quick and then
[2:51:17] maybe the applicant can I I know that
[2:51:19] they're not planning on large delivery
[2:51:21] trucks. Anything that would go to a home
[2:51:24] is what they're intending.
[2:51:26] >> So UPS drop off Amazon. Yeah, is all
[2:51:30] that would be dropping off.
[2:51:32] >> Okay, thanks. Um I Yeah, I guess if you
[2:51:34] have more to add, that's great.
[2:51:39] >> If that's okay.
[2:51:40] >> Absolutely. [laughter]
[2:51:41] >> And Sarah, thank you. I think this is a
[2:51:43] very good way to do it and that's how
[2:51:44] we've done it in the past is bring it up
[2:51:46] with as council members.
[2:51:48] >> That's right.
[2:51:49] >> Excellent.
[2:51:49] >> Okay. Your instincts are right on
[2:51:51] >> to speak. He he was we did the swept
[2:51:53] analysis together. I paid for it. Um, we
[2:51:57] went as so far as to have the sweep path
[2:51:59] guy actually take a UPS truck, the
[2:52:01] biggest truck they could do, and show
[2:52:02] that it could enter the parking lot and
[2:52:04] exit the parking lot. Janice Aiden, you
[2:52:07] guys may know her. She lives on my
[2:52:08] street. She's about the sweetest human
[2:52:10] being on the planet. When she saw the
[2:52:12] posts on the Facebook group, she
[2:52:14] commented and said, "I know those guys
[2:52:16] really well. They're my neighbor, and I
[2:52:18] never knew over the past 10 years that
[2:52:20] they'd running a business out of there.
[2:52:21] That's not going to change. We don't
[2:52:23] expect freight. It's Amazon, it's UPS,
[2:52:26] it's FedEx, and again, not that much. I
[2:52:29] mean, no, no more than any of our
[2:52:31] neighbors have ever gotten. So, um, I
[2:52:34] would say we're not going to get any
[2:52:35] more than the residents are, and we have
[2:52:37] a big parking lot for them to park in
[2:52:38] while they deliver where most people do
[2:52:40] not have that. They have to park on the
[2:52:41] street. So,
[2:52:42] >> thank you.
[2:52:46] » I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't
[2:52:47] think anybody else does either, but we
[2:52:48] have a nice big parking lot.
[2:52:51] We don't have a giant warehouse. It's a
[2:52:53] garage now. Now we remove seven feet
[2:52:54] from the front of it. So it's not
[2:52:56] terribly big. So it's not as if it's a
[2:52:59] freight dock. It's not purple mattress.
[2:53:01] >> And and the planters, I appreciate your
[2:53:03] email today. Um how how tall are those?
[2:53:06] Just
[2:53:07] >> I mean we can make them as tall as you
[2:53:09] want. We were thinking like 36 in.
[2:53:11] >> Oh yeah.
[2:53:12] >> It just kind of depends on what's
[2:53:13] available in the market and what what's
[2:53:15] reasonable because they have to be kind
[2:53:16] of skinny to fit in that space. So,
[2:53:18] >> right.
[2:53:19] >> Tall enough that a F-150 can't back over
[2:53:22] it and hit the sidewalk is the point.
[2:53:24] >> Okay. Yeah, that was just a concern of
[2:53:26] like
[2:53:26] >> exactly why we put them in there.
[2:53:28] >> Yes. Okay. I just wanted
[2:53:29] >> provided examples too what they look
[2:53:31] like.
[2:53:31] >> Great. I just wanted you to be able to
[2:53:33] mention that today. Yeah. Thank you. Um
[2:53:36] and then um just in conclusion, my
[2:53:39] purpose is to represent the voice of the
[2:53:42] residents. I feel like it's also to
[2:53:44] ensure that we're following our own
[2:53:45] procedures and codes. And I've heard
[2:53:49] various things from residents on both
[2:53:50] sides of this action item. And
[2:53:52] ultimately, if an applicant meets our
[2:53:54] requirements, regardless of any sort of
[2:53:57] personal feelings or whatever, I feel
[2:53:59] like ultimately it's my obligation to
[2:54:01] follow our code. Um, and I just want to
[2:54:04] explain the process. If we choose not to
[2:54:06] follow, then it goes to he um the
[2:54:09] applicant can appeal and then it's heard
[2:54:12] by um I don't know the official type,
[2:54:15] but it ends up
[2:54:16] >> hearing officer
[2:54:16] >> hearing officers. Thank you, Shane. And
[2:54:18] then it ends up cost we pay for that. So
[2:54:21] is that is that correct?
[2:54:23] >> There's actually an application fee, but
[2:54:25] if the cost exceeds that the way it's
[2:54:26] set up right now, then the city eats it.
[2:54:29] >> Yeah. And then so it ends up costing the
[2:54:31] city more money. Um and um I believe the
[2:54:36] reason why this has come three times is
[2:54:37] because we're we're been trying to work
[2:54:39] through some of the ambiguity in our
[2:54:41] code. And um just I mean this has been a
[2:54:45] great experience. Not probably not for
[2:54:47] everyone, [laughter] but the silver
[2:54:49] lining is is that there's a few things
[2:54:51] that have come to light throughout the
[2:54:53] situation. Maybe, you know, just a more
[2:54:56] thoughtful approach on our zoning, visi
[2:54:59] revisiting our parking codes, some
[2:55:01] procedural clarification, maybe looking
[2:55:04] into bulk and massing, and just making
[2:55:06] sure our historic design guidelines need
[2:55:08] to be more precise. And I just feel like
[2:55:10] if you know on our end, those are some
[2:55:12] takeaways that maybe would have helped
[2:55:14] the applicants and the residents a
[2:55:16] little bit more. So, moving forward, you
[2:55:18] know, I see that as my
[2:55:20] >> maybe role moving forward with
[2:55:22] pertaining to this situation. So, thank
[2:55:24] you.
[2:55:25] >> Thank you, sir. Uh, Chrissy, do you have
[2:55:27] any questions for the applicant or for
[2:55:28] our staff?
[2:55:29] >> No, thank you for going over all that in
[2:55:31] detail. I appreciate it.
[2:55:32] >> Uh, Andrew, do you have any questions
[2:55:34] for staff or
[2:55:35] >> uh that was good. Thanks for all the
[2:55:37] questions, Sarah. A lot of those were
[2:55:39] the same ones I had.
[2:55:41] >> Is it uh is it okay? I know you have the
[2:55:44] policy, but
[2:55:47] >> pardon what? Is it
[2:55:49] >> you talk to us? There seems to be uh
[2:55:52] some residents that feel um can I use my
[2:55:56] time to let them say a couple things
[2:55:57] just so there's a little bit of equal
[2:55:59] time or can I ask them a couple
[2:56:01] questions?
[2:56:01] >> No, I no. I think we should stick with
[2:56:03] our our policy and the guidance from our
[2:56:05] attorney.
[2:56:06] >> Well, but uh we
[2:56:08] >> do you do you know what they are?
[2:56:10] >> No, I don't. Wait, wait, wait.
[2:56:11] >> Different than what the emails relayed?
[2:56:14] >> Well, no. I just saw and this is a
[2:56:17] little rare because we have they are
[2:56:19] both residents. Okay.
[2:56:21] >> This kind of the reason we stick with
[2:56:22] our ordinance we're going to stick with
[2:56:23] the policy.
[2:56:24] >> I think one thing to understand about a
[2:56:25] public meeting is we're having a a
[2:56:27] public meeting among us.
[2:56:29] >> No, I know. I know.
[2:56:30] >> And so,
[2:56:31] >> but at the end of
[2:56:32] >> a public it's a meeting in a public
[2:56:33] setting, but it's not a public hearing
[2:56:35] which when they have all the
[2:56:37] opportunities to talk. So, just
[2:56:39] understand there's a big difference
[2:56:40] between a public hearing and a public
[2:56:41] hearing.
[2:56:42] >> Okay. Just as from what we've been said,
[2:56:44] is there anything that we are missing
[2:56:46] that has not been brought up by any of
[2:56:48] the residents here besides
[2:56:51] >> is there something pertinent that we
[2:56:53] should know that has not been brought
[2:56:54] up? Is that an okay question to ask that
[2:56:57] wasn't in the emails or
[2:56:58] >> I think they've been pretty thorough in
[2:56:59] their their communications to to
[2:57:02] council.
[2:57:06] [clears throat]
[2:57:06] >> All right.
[2:57:07] Um, I will allow that
[2:57:08] question because that was brought up two meetings ago when I was
[2:57:12] participating.
[2:57:12] >> So, can
[2:57:13] >> is there any requirement for the
[2:57:14] dumpster to have to be have a setback
[2:57:16] for the dumpster?
[2:57:17] >> It can be by either the petitioner.
[2:57:19] >> Oh, sorry.
[2:57:20] >> First, I'll say if you can, as you can
[2:57:22] see here on the site plan, there's
[2:57:23] actually not a dumpster. It's just trash
[2:57:25] cans. Um there's a dumpster enclosure
[2:57:28] for those trash cans to keep them uh
[2:57:30] hidden from the street, but the
[2:57:32] applicant will pull those out every week
[2:57:34] for the uh to take the trash out. Um
[2:57:38] there the code just says that a dumpster
[2:57:41] site has to be located on the site plan.
[2:57:43] Doesn't indicate where it has to be. And
[2:57:45] I've driven around the city and a lot of
[2:57:47] commercial buildings around here have
[2:57:48] dumpsters in the setback.
[2:57:51] >> Andrew, do you have any other questions
[2:57:53] for staff?
[2:57:53] >> Three comments if that's okay. Uh the
[2:57:55] three comments are like uh what?
[2:57:58] >> Oh, before you do that, uh we're past 9
[2:58:00] o'clock, so we
[2:58:01] >> Yeah, go ahead.
[2:58:02] >> need to get a motion to extend the
[2:58:03] meeting past our 9:00.
[2:58:04] >> Well, I can make one. Make
[2:58:06] >> I Go ahead. I make a motion to extend
[2:58:09] the meeting to 910.
[2:58:11] >> Okay, we still have staff reports and
[2:58:14] council communications.
[2:58:16] >> How about
[2:58:18] >> Okay, I
[2:58:19] withdraw the motion. I amend the meeting
[2:58:22] to go to 9:20.
[2:58:24] I second that.
[2:58:26] >> Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any
[2:58:28] questions about the motion? All right,
[2:58:30] let's proceed with a roll call vote.
[2:58:33] >> Want to go first? Andrew.
[2:58:34] >> Andrew Young. I I Yes.
[2:58:36] >> Brent Rmer. Yes.
[2:58:37] >> Sarah Blockwell. Yes.
[2:58:38] >> Chrissy Henman. Yes.
[2:58:39] >> Okay. The motion passed. We will proceed
[2:58:41] until 9:20. So, you have just a few just
[2:58:44] maybe two or three minutes to
[2:58:46] >> Yep. very brief. Uh just two situations
[2:58:49] uh that I hope will be helpful. We have
[2:58:52] this same situation happening in three
[2:58:53] or four different areas of Alpine right
[2:58:55] now. Um, in two cases, one case the
[2:59:00] residents came together, found a
[2:59:02] compromise, and both are very happy.
[2:59:04] That's that's the dream. Uh, they did
[2:59:08] this after the vote was finished. So,
[2:59:10] you can still do that. That's my hope.
[2:59:13] We got a boardroom here. I think you're
[2:59:15] so close. Um, I like pray plead for
[2:59:18] that. They did it. It worked. It
[2:59:21] happened after the vote. We have another
[2:59:23] case, both with residents, both in a
[2:59:26] development, and they went the other
[2:59:28] route. Uh, lawyers, uh, appeals cost
[2:59:34] money, and in the end, it was just it's
[2:59:37] just going how it's going. And, uh,
[2:59:40] yeah, I I I don't
[2:59:42] we will probably end up in hopefully
[2:59:46] both those cases, but the first would be
[2:59:48] much better. Uh however, we've so that's
[2:59:52] the two comments. The next one is the
[2:59:54] situation we're in. Like uh our attorney
[2:59:58] Steve Doy, Mr. Doc has explained, this
[3:00:01] is administrative where we're supposed
[3:00:03] to make a decision based on what the
[3:00:05] code says.
[3:00:07] Okay,
[3:00:09] that's how it's so supposed to be. We're
[3:00:12] supposed to follow the law, right? It's
[3:00:14] just supposed to be cut and dry. Uh for
[3:00:18] me the problem is when you get on this
[3:00:19] side or when you go to the capital or
[3:00:21] you find out how the laws are made um
[3:00:25] they are not perfect and uh that doesn't
[3:00:29] mean we don't have to abide by them. We
[3:00:30] have to abide by them. Uh but the ask
[3:00:34] from staff is that as we try the only
[3:00:37] way this could have been fixed
[3:00:40] well one way it could have been fixed is
[3:00:43] to have gone back and amended the
[3:00:45] zoning. Okay. Still hopefully providing
[3:00:47] a lot where uh resident petitioner could
[3:00:50] still pursue a business in a business
[3:00:52] commercial zone that wasn't so close to
[3:00:54] residential that we we can't we can't go
[3:00:56] back and do that. Um especially now we
[3:01:00] can do it after this. The problem I'm
[3:01:02] running into as a city councelor very
[3:01:05] much uh not the normal type is how long
[3:01:10] and difficult it is to amend the
[3:01:12] ordinances.
[3:01:15] uh it's very difficult. We're trying to
[3:01:17] do it. It's not working. So, we can't
[3:01:20] really help these residents fix this.
[3:01:22] And so, what we're running into it, like
[3:01:25] the next problem that's going to happen
[3:01:26] is going to be in two weeks. But, we're
[3:01:28] really struggling to get ahead of them
[3:01:31] and amend these ordinances because we'll
[3:01:34] send them to you, but they'll come back
[3:01:36] changed or they'll just take a long
[3:01:38] time. And I know we had hiring
[3:01:40] difficulties, so that changes things.
[3:01:43] Anyways, it creates a a storm that we
[3:01:46] have in like four or five parts of the
[3:01:48] city.
[3:01:50] Uh so anyways, we need to figure that
[3:01:52] out how we do that and how we get these
[3:01:55] done because right now it's reaction
[3:01:57] based. Someone comes with a crisis, we
[3:01:58] try to change the ordinances after to
[3:02:01] address it. And we're still blocked.
[3:02:04] Like for example, Chrissy and Brent,
[3:02:06] you've been on the council for how long?
[3:02:07] Five year, four, three years.
[3:02:08] >> Two and a half. like how many ordinances
[3:02:10] have you guys written that have changed
[3:02:12] the ordinances in that time? It's it's
[3:02:15] very little, I would imagine, if any.
[3:02:18] And so we we're trying our hardest. Um
[3:02:22] but we are finding ourselves trapped. We
[3:02:24] are elected by people who are telling us
[3:02:26] what to do and what they want, but the
[3:02:29] ordinances are blocking us. And then
[3:02:32] when we try to change the ordinance,
[3:02:33] we're reaching a lot of difficulties.
[3:02:35] And I'm not saying that's your fault.
[3:02:37] Alls I'll say to that is
[3:02:38] >> please.
[3:02:38] >> Yeah.
[3:02:39] >> Having practiced land use law in the in
[3:02:42] a prior career,
[3:02:44] >> which is awesome,
[3:02:44] >> is that you have ordinances. They're not
[3:02:46] perfect. You're right. The our our
[3:02:48] ordinances are not perfect and we
[3:02:50] identify maybe deficiencies or gaps or
[3:02:53] areas of improvement and we work through
[3:02:54] the process. Two council members suggest
[3:02:56] it. And I understand you've expressed it
[3:02:58] before that you've been disappointed
[3:03:00] with the speed of how things have gone
[3:03:02] on your fence things and some other
[3:03:04] things. So maybe we can work on that
[3:03:05] with staff and prioritize.
[3:03:07] >> Um but anything more specific to this
[3:03:09] decision tonight so we can end in our 12
[3:03:12] minutes we have.
[3:03:13] >> Yes. Yes. Uh
[3:03:14] >> we're at four minutes.
[3:03:16] >> It's just I hope you go for the first
[3:03:18] story. I think you can do it. It
[3:03:20] happened. I hope you I know it's not
[3:03:22] simple. I know it's a dream. I hope you
[3:03:23] can do it. Just keep it as an option. I
[3:03:25] plead.
[3:03:26] >> All right. Thank you very much.
[3:03:28] >> I'm ready to make the motion.
[3:03:30] >> We're going to go ahead and
[3:03:31] >> I need to make the motion. And just
[3:03:33] would just want to clarify Shane that we
[3:03:35] have the right wording with the motion
[3:03:36] for the
[3:03:37] >> So the the first one was I move to
[3:03:40] consider this. So are you when you say
[3:03:42] um do you want the second one where it
[3:03:45] says I move to approve consideration or
[3:03:48] you want this I move to approve the
[3:03:49] long-range shooters of Utah. Which one?
[3:03:55] I'm confused.
[3:04:00] you had some you had some language that
[3:04:03] Steve had suggested um because it didn't
[3:04:05] go back to planning commission that was
[3:04:08] the first the one above right
[3:04:11] >> yeah so
[3:04:14] I think I yeah I would probably change
[3:04:16] that it's hard to do it on the fly but I
[3:04:18] think I would um I think you could move
[3:04:23] to approve the site plan if you're so
[3:04:25] inclined to do that instead of
[3:04:28] consideration of the site plan and just
[3:04:31] recognize in the motion based on the
[3:04:34] fact that the sweat path analysis was
[3:04:37] performed and the applicant is no longer
[3:04:39] in need of a recommendation from the
[3:04:40] planning commission. I think
[3:04:42] >> okay
[3:04:43] >> I would probably eliminate consideration
[3:04:45] because that
[3:04:46] >> okay
[3:04:47] >> that kind of
[3:04:48] >> thank you I I was confused
[3:04:50] >> consider it later.
[3:04:51] >> Okay. All right. I move to approve the
[3:04:54] longrange shooters of Utah commercial
[3:04:55] site plan based on the fact that the
[3:04:58] swept path analysis was performed and
[3:05:02] that the applicant is no longer in need
[3:05:04] of a recommendation from planning
[3:05:05] commission
[3:05:08] to an exception to parking standards
[3:05:10] found in code section 3.24.030.
[3:05:16] And you might also just add if you're so
[3:05:19] inclined that um the site plan meets all
[3:05:23] applicable code requirements.
[3:05:25] >> Okay. Per review of staff, the site plan
[3:05:28] meets all applicable
[3:05:30] code compliance requirements.
[3:05:34] >> Okay. Does that sound good, council?
[3:05:37] >> Did I cover it?
[3:05:38] >> Thank you. We have a motion. Uh do we
[3:05:40] have a second?
[3:05:41] >> Am I authorized to be a second?
[3:05:44] I will second the motion. Uh we have a
[3:05:48] motion and a second. Are there any
[3:05:50] questions about the motion?
[3:05:52] It will proceed to a roll call vote. If
[3:05:54] there are no questions, Andrew Young,
[3:05:59] because the
[3:06:02] they have not come to an agreement.
[3:06:03] Andrew Young, no. Brent Rmler, yes.
[3:06:06] >> Sarah Blockwell, yes. Chrissy Hanaman,
[3:06:08] yes.
[3:06:09] >> All right, the motion passes. We will
[3:06:11] move on to staff reports starting with
[3:06:14] police chief. Do you have anything for
[3:06:15] us, Chief William?
[3:06:17] >> Chief Patton.
[3:06:19] >> Okay, Kaden.
[3:06:20] >> No.
[3:06:20] >> Jason,
[3:06:22] uh Shane,
[3:06:24] >> yes.
[3:06:25] >> All right, we finally get to staff
[3:06:27] reports. It's been about six months,
[3:06:29] >> right? Um so just an update on a couple
[3:06:31] things. Uh we actually submitted today
[3:06:35] uh for a $ 1.5 million grant that the
[3:06:39] purpose is to help us build an
[3:06:41] additional storage reservoir for the PI
[3:06:44] system. It would be by somewhere it's
[3:06:47] not pinned down yet, but by the lower
[3:06:50] state or the Alpine Stake Center there,
[3:06:53] not Alpine North Stake Center. Um so it
[3:06:58] was a really quick turnaround on that.
[3:07:00] Um, we got Horox to help us and I think
[3:07:03] they put together a really good
[3:07:05] application.
[3:07:07] Um, and then we had a grant come through
[3:07:10] that we applied for several months ago.
[3:07:13] Finally, [clears throat] we finally got
[3:07:14] the paperwork from the Division of Water
[3:07:16] Resources. And this is to um help pay
[3:07:20] for kind of educational stuff uh for
[3:07:23] water
[3:07:25] like flyers and and a bunch of different
[3:07:27] things. So, um, that one we can use over
[3:07:30] a period of of three years.
[3:07:34] Uh, you may have noticed the
[3:07:35] construction down on Main Street. We've
[3:07:37] been working to, uh, relocate the the
[3:07:41] main school crosswalk down there. Uh,
[3:07:43] turned out to be a much bigger project
[3:07:46] than it looked like it would be on the
[3:07:48] surface.
[3:07:49] And, uh, I took a picture. I I should
[3:07:52] have sent it to Kaden, but I can send it
[3:07:54] out. That kind of shows you what a
[3:07:56] little change in grade will do in
[3:07:59] meeting ADA requirements or not. And
[3:08:02] that's a lot of what we ended up dealing
[3:08:04] with down there. Um, but the last pour
[3:08:06] will happen tomorrow. And then we've got
[3:08:09] some asphalt patching and and then we're
[3:08:12] just waiting for we had to buy new uh
[3:08:16] lighting and signage because our other
[3:08:18] doesn't meet this the spec anymore. Do
[3:08:22] you mind if I just ask one quick
[3:08:24] question on that?
[3:08:25] >> Um, the crosswalk, it doesn't interfere
[3:08:28] with the the the driveway of the 512
[3:08:32] building, doesn't I? I tried to look at
[3:08:33] it today. It looked
[3:08:34] >> That's that's one of the challenges. So,
[3:08:37] we have the crosswalk.
[3:08:39] Remember, we're replacing one that's
[3:08:41] kind of on a diagonal
[3:08:43] >> that interfered with the bank uh parking
[3:08:45] lot. Preferably, they are perpendicular
[3:08:49] across the street. So on one side we had
[3:08:52] the ingress for the school on one side
[3:08:56] of the crosswalk. On the other side of
[3:08:57] the street and the other side of the
[3:08:59] crosswalk we had the 512 driveway. Um
[3:09:02] but we everything worked out. We had a
[3:09:04] couple of questions. We actually called
[3:09:06] uh Michael I can't remember
[3:09:09] Adamson with Fair and Pierce uh just to
[3:09:12] get some clarification and make sure we
[3:09:14] were going about it right and we believe
[3:09:16] we've got it in there the way it needs
[3:09:18] to be.
[3:09:19] um preferably
[3:09:22] there being more separation between
[3:09:24] driveways, but we were we were very
[3:09:26] limited and it affected um some other
[3:09:30] things as well. So
[3:09:33] um but it is tight. Uh the light package
[3:09:36] is scheduled to ship August 4th. I just
[3:09:39] confirmed that today. Um so it should be
[3:09:41] in place for school starting. Um, in the
[3:09:45] event that it's not, I've already talked
[3:09:47] to Chief Guliam and um, it will still
[3:09:50] act as a school crosswalk. Uh, it just
[3:09:53] won't be the reduced speed with the
[3:09:55] flashing yellow lights. So,
[3:09:59] um, and just on that, he's, uh, police
[3:10:02] department's working with all their
[3:10:04] crossing guards and getting everybody
[3:10:06] and their officers ready for school
[3:10:09] starting, which seems really weird that
[3:10:11] we're talking about school starting, but
[3:10:13] July's almost gone. Um on the uh water,
[3:10:18] I heard a report on the news just a
[3:10:20] couple days ago that uh and we talked a
[3:10:22] little bit about this earlier, but um
[3:10:25] this July and it wasn't quite finished
[3:10:28] is the third hottest on record, the
[3:10:31] third highest average temperature. So
[3:10:34] they consider the low and the high
[3:10:36] temperature in that.
[3:10:39] Uh they said we might move into second
[3:10:42] all time. Um, but three of the the
[3:10:46] highest temperature years have been in
[3:10:48] the last 10.
[3:10:49] >> Wow.
[3:10:50] >> So, we've been dealing with a lot of um
[3:10:53] odd weather, but
[3:10:56] um we've been able to get by
[3:10:59] uh pretty well with our water. Um the
[3:11:02] creek flows are dropping off fast now.
[3:11:05] Um Greg said over the weekend they went
[3:11:07] down about 500 gallons a minute. So, uh,
[3:11:11] we had a meeting today with the
[3:11:12] irrigation company and and those
[3:11:14] agricultural users will be cutting back
[3:11:17] their use even even more.
[3:11:21] Uh, Alpine Days Prep's in full swing.
[3:11:24] I'm impressed that Heidi, she some of
[3:11:26] you can't see her, but she's still here.
[3:11:29] Um, she's been very busy and she tells
[3:11:33] me everything's in order. She might need
[3:11:36] some volunteer help. Maybe some of you
[3:11:37] can help with that. Um, she'll be
[3:11:41] putting those those needs out.
[3:11:44] Uh, we're also working with uh, the church on projects for the 911,
[3:11:52] which will be on 912 this year, uh, day
[3:11:55] of service. Um, we'll when we get those
[3:11:58] projects 100% nailed down, we'll let you
[3:12:01] know what they are. We kind of gave them
[3:12:03] some options to see which ones they
[3:12:05] thought would fit best. And then the
[3:12:08] fire station, just an update there. Uh
[3:12:11] things are in full swing. Uh there's a
[3:12:13] little bit not an overall delay, but uh
[3:12:17] the power for the building was on the
[3:12:20] wall that the new addition will go on.
[3:12:22] And Rocky Mountain Powers crews have
[3:12:24] been very tied up with fires and
[3:12:27] replacing power poles and different
[3:12:28] things. But I saw their truck over there
[3:12:30] today and so that's uh either finished
[3:12:34] or getting there and and then they can
[3:12:37] move forward. But everything's going
[3:12:39] well and on schedule. So um that's all I
[3:12:43] have unless anybody has any questions.
[3:12:46] >> Any questions for Shane?
[3:12:48] >> I just have two followup. Um have you
[3:12:51] been able to work with the staff at
[3:12:53] Mountainville Academy so that the
[3:12:54] parents are aware of changes? I actually
[3:12:56] had a conference call today with the
[3:12:59] principal. Uh the mayor was trying to be
[3:13:01] involved, but it didn't didn't work out
[3:13:03] um with the principal and
[3:13:06] Mike. Uh I'm not sure what his title is.
[3:13:08] He kind of the grounds guy down there.
[3:13:11] But yes, we have been communicating with
[3:13:13] them.
[3:13:14] >> Okay.
[3:13:14] >> Um they have a few concerns um with some
[3:13:18] things like the delineators down the
[3:13:23] middle of the street and some of those
[3:13:25] things. So,
[3:13:26] >> yep.
[3:13:26] >> But, uh, I let them know that we really
[3:13:29] don't have a way to communicate with the
[3:13:30] parents. We're happy to provide
[3:13:32] information, but we can't send that to
[3:13:35] them directly, and we need to re rely on
[3:13:37] them to do that.
[3:13:39] >> Good. I'm glad they're
[3:13:41] >> Yeah, we're working together on that.
[3:13:43] And they've been they've been really
[3:13:44] good to work with down there on what
[3:13:46] we've had to do. Um, we actually took
[3:13:49] out some of their rock area to have kind
[3:13:51] of a build kind of a staging area for
[3:13:54] the kids on the school side
[3:13:56] >> and they were great to work with on that
[3:13:58] and um I think it's going well.
[3:14:02] >> The other question is you mentioned the
[3:14:04] Rocky Mountain Power in front of the
[3:14:06] fire station. Is that are we going to
[3:14:08] have a pole still or is that going
[3:14:10] underground? Uh the one that's kind of
[3:14:12] midb block in
[3:14:14] >> right in front of our station kind of
[3:14:16] >> that one will that will still be there.
[3:14:18] We we did investigate putting all those
[3:14:21] overhead lines underground and you have
[3:14:24] to go like a block each direction.
[3:14:26] >> Oh,
[3:14:26] >> it got way involved.
[3:14:28] >> Okay.
[3:14:29] >> We did investigate it.
[3:14:30] >> That's it. Thanks.
[3:14:31] >> But the one that's just outside this
[3:14:34] door, we're still working on getting rid
[3:14:37] of that. So, it's just going to take a
[3:14:40] little bit of time.
[3:14:42] >> All right, we just have a few seconds
[3:14:44] for council communications. I'll just
[3:14:45] update you. Lumpy public safety district
[3:14:47] has not had any budget or any agenda
[3:14:50] items. So, we have not held a meeting in
[3:14:51] a few months. And just to confirm, we do
[3:14:54] not have a city council meeting on the
[3:14:56] second Tuesday of August because of
[3:15:00] Alpine Days.
[3:15:01] >> That's correct. And that is something I
[3:15:03] wanted to mention. Sometimes we get to
[3:15:05] this time of year and that happens and
[3:15:06] we're trying to get an overlay project
[3:15:08] out. We might ask for like a quick new
[3:15:11] day meeting one day to approve a
[3:15:13] contract or something, but we're not
[3:15:15] quite there yet.
[3:15:16] >> All right. So, just a heads up, only the
[3:15:19] fourth fourth Tuesday in August. Nothing
[3:15:21] else for me.
[3:15:22] >> Um I serve on the Alpine Youth Council
[3:15:25] committee and the water committee.
[3:15:26] Alpine Youth Council, they're just doing
[3:15:28] a little training retreat. I don't know
[3:15:29] if that's really pertinent information,
[3:15:31] but um our water committee um we are
[3:15:34] still doing our we are not doing on
[3:15:37] education night in August, but in
[3:15:39] September in September on the 16th um
[3:15:42] we're have a meeting um a little lecture
[3:15:46] given by Ben Abbott. He's a professor at
[3:15:49] BYU in the life sciences and he I've
[3:15:51] heard him speak before. It's great. He's
[3:15:53] talking about the health of the Great
[3:15:55] Salt Lake and Utah Lake and how that
[3:15:57] affects our snowpack and just our life
[3:16:00] here in Utah. Um, also just with regards
[3:16:03] to the water committee, we were able to
[3:16:05] distribute not quite 3,000 water
[3:16:09] education door hangers that were
[3:16:11] delivered doortodoor by foot, by hand
[3:16:14] throughout the entire city of Alpine.
[3:16:16] So, shout out to those who helped do
[3:16:18] that. Thank you.
[3:16:19] >> You should have asked me to help. I
[3:16:21] could run and do it like I did in my
[3:16:22] campaign.
[3:16:24] >> Now we have now I have grant funds to
[3:16:26] help. [laughter]
[3:16:27] >> Oh, nice.
[3:16:28] >> Um, thank you for remembering the
[3:16:31] flyers. I was following your person. I
[3:16:33] couldn't keep up with him. He's younger
[3:16:34] than I was. Um, we we had neighborhood
[3:16:38] 250 celebrations on July 5th and had a
[3:16:41] good turnout from all just all around
[3:16:43] Burgess Park. People that I had never
[3:16:46] met before. So, it was really fun. Um,
[3:16:47] and people I've known a long time.
[3:16:49] perfect event for the America 250.
[3:16:52] That's the theme of Alpine Days. And if
[3:16:54] you remember way back in January, we
[3:16:56] were each assigned to events to attend.
[3:16:59] So, if you need help with any of those,
[3:17:00] it sounds like um Whoops. Heidi may need
[3:17:03] some help with volunteer time. And then
[3:17:05] I wasn't aware because I was a new
[3:17:07] council person that we get to ride on
[3:17:09] the fire truck in the parade. So, if you
[3:17:12] haven't been informed, I don't I don't
[3:17:13] want you to make plans and and miss that
[3:17:16] opportunity, especially since you have
[3:17:18] children that would remember such a fun
[3:17:20] event. We have um Main Street uh based
[3:17:25] on our the communication from last
[3:17:27] meeting. We've divided up into
[3:17:29] committees and have assignments and
[3:17:31] Kaden is our spearing that spearheading
[3:17:35] those efforts. Remember the deadline is
[3:17:37] um September 1st. We've suggested times
[3:17:40] to meet and hope that all works out so
[3:17:42] you don't have to do the long email
[3:17:44] chain of who can meet when and all that
[3:17:46] business. Um I would remind everyone
[3:17:50] that um two two open things that we had
[3:17:54] or two thing one thing that came up
[3:17:55] tonight is our guidelines our main
[3:17:57] street guidelines are not as um as
[3:18:01] they're ambiguous. So that led to some
[3:18:03] confusion not just with here but even
[3:18:05] with our fire station things like that
[3:18:07] to work hard to to to bring the detail
[3:18:09] we need because the next step to
[3:18:11] Andrew's point is to get it into
[3:18:13] ordinances. So if we can do um get ahead
[3:18:16] of that while it's all fresh in our
[3:18:18] memory that would be awesome. Also um
[3:18:21] the planning commission brought up flex
[3:18:23] housing which we've never really talked
[3:18:25] about here. So, let's let's be sure and
[3:18:28] be thorough with that. And then we will
[3:18:29] be voting on um the final edits in in
[3:18:33] our August meeting because that's the
[3:18:35] only one before or maybe it's in the
[3:18:36] first meeting in September. That's when
[3:18:38] we're doing it. So, anyways, just remind
[3:18:40] you to do that. Um I think another issue
[3:18:42] that came up again, we're learning as we
[3:18:44] go with this commercial um application
[3:18:47] was it's good to have a transition space
[3:18:50] between residential and commercial. What
[3:18:52] does that look like? We don't have any
[3:18:54] code regarding that. the um consultants
[3:18:57] did talk about having that and what the
[3:18:59] planning commission came up with was
[3:19:00] flex housing be be to be a buffer from
[3:19:04] commercial to flex housing to regular
[3:19:06] single family homes. I don't know what
[3:19:08] that's going to look like. It's a long
[3:19:10] journey but worth the effort. That's it.
[3:19:12] Thank you.
[3:19:13] >> That was nice. Just two things. Kayen,
[3:19:15] do you mind bringing up that items to
[3:19:17] share? The very last uh items just
[3:19:20] called water barrel.
[3:19:21] >> Do we need to have a motion to go? We
[3:19:22] we're four minutes beyond our
[3:19:25] >> Okay, I could probably do it 20 seconds.
[3:19:27] >> Okay, as long as it's okay.
[3:19:29] >> Uh Shane, we got an Eagle over the Eagle
[3:19:31] Scout projects. We got an Eagle Scout
[3:19:33] who wants to do painting the um
[3:19:35] crosswalks. So, you have an Eagle Scout
[3:19:38] and a bunch of helpers that want to do
[3:19:40] that. Just passing it on.
[3:19:43] >> Your smile is telling you,
[3:19:44] >> let's find them something else to paint.
[3:19:45] We don't really It wouldn't be safe to
[3:19:47] have him out on the street.
[3:19:49] >> Okay, hold on. We're going longer than
[3:19:50] 20 seconds. Sorry.
[3:19:51] >> One suggestion. Yeah.
[3:19:52] >> If he could remove the tape residue on
[3:19:54] all the restroom doors and repaint
[3:19:56] those.
[3:19:57] >> Well, okay. I
[3:19:59] >> Well, that's going to be awesome to tell
[3:20:01] him. Guess what? The bathroom doors.
[3:20:04] >> Um Well,
[3:20:06] >> if he's Oh, no. At the very bottom, the
[3:20:08] water barrels
[3:20:09] >> after the meeting ends. I have another
[3:20:10] suggestion, but that's not extended.
[3:20:12] >> I'll talk to you after.
[3:20:13] >> He has something to Yeah.
[3:20:15] >> There's also one that wants to help with
[3:20:17] trails, the Bonavville Shoreline Trail
[3:20:19] to try to help it. Anyways, if you just
[3:20:22] go to those bottom things, it's always
[3:20:23] going to share. These are the three
[3:20:24] working uh three working um independent
[3:20:28] home and look at that beautiful rock.
[3:20:30] Three independent working home water
[3:20:32] storage units that are just phenomenal.
[3:20:35] And I just want to show them as the way
[3:20:38] you can store there's a scout yourself.
[3:20:41] One of the best residents. I love that
[3:20:42] resident. Um, anyways, uh, I'd love to
[3:20:44] talk more about it later, but, uh, it's
[3:20:46] just fascinating how the pressure comes
[3:20:48] out of the bottom and how people can
[3:20:50] store it for months and months and
[3:20:51] months at their home and use it for
[3:20:53] water needs. So,
[3:20:55] >> you know, I love them. You know, I love
[3:20:56] them. But,
[3:20:56] >> hey, thanks everyone.
[3:20:57] >> Yep.
[3:20:58] >> Uh, I'll entertain a motion to dismiss.
[3:21:02] >> I move that we end this city council
[3:21:05] meeting.
[3:21:06] >> Have a second.
[3:21:07] >> I'll second.
[3:21:08] >> All in favor?
[3:21:09] >> I.
[3:21:10] >> Thanks.
[3:21:20] group that wants to do
[3:21:22] a service project. We have a list of