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Uh welcome uh planning commission

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members uh city employees and uh members

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of the pl public public who may be here

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present or zoom to the Alpine City

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Planning Commission meeting held

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Tuesday, August 18th, 2026 uh at 6 PM uh

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physically at City Hall, 20 North Main

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Street, Alpine, Utah. and let the record

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reflect that this meeting has been duly

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and legally noticed uh and is being held

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at the time and place of publication. Uh

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let's start with uh general business. I

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just like to recognize the folks here

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from uh the city that are helping us and

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working with us. We have Kaden Lions,

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Jason Jud, Mara Fox, and am I missing

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something? Am I including Heidi on that?

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Okay. And the esteemed Heidi. What is

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Heidi's last name?

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>> Smith.

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Okay. I I knew her way back in

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the day when she had a different last

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name. Um, okay. Heidi Smith. Uh, and

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here on Planning Commission, Troy Slade,

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Michelle Shurmer, John McCay, myself,

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Alan McDonald, Greg Butterfield, Suz

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Wittenberg, and the esteemed Jeff Davis.

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Um, okay. Let's uh start. Oh, well, that

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was a roll call. Welcome, I guess. Just want to say once again to a big

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thanks to all of the city employees and

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multitude of volunteers who pulled off

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an amazing maybe best ever alpine days.

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The parade was well attended and fun and

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great. The carnival, the fireworks, all

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the activities all week long. It was

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just top-notch. Very, very, very well

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done. Except there was one particular

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member um who was leading the Alpine

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Days hike who apparently lost a

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resident, but that individual will

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remain unnamed. Um both individuals

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remained unnamed.

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>> Back safe.

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>> Yes. Found and back safe. Um is is all

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we need to know. Uh with that uh we

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would like to start the meeting with a

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prayer which will be uh offered to us by

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Greg Butterfield followed by the pledge

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of allegiance led by Suz Whittenberg.

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Our

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dear kind heavenly father, we come

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before thee this Tuesday night to give

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thee thanks for many blessings as

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already been so. We're grateful for the

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citizens of Alpine and for the Alpine

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days, the city employees and ask that

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they thou bless them uh for all their

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good work and for the service that they

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provide us at this time. Heavenly

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Father, we pray and invite thy spirit to

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be with us so that we might be able to

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discuss those things that need to be

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done at this particular time to make

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sure that Alpine continues to be a safe

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and a wonderful spot for us to live.

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We're grateful for this free country.

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We're grateful their h for your hand in

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our lives and we say it's in the name of

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Jesus Christ. Amen.

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>> Amen.

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» I aliance to the flag of the United

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States of America and to the republic

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for which it stands, one nation under

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God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.

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>> Okay. Thank you everybody. Much

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appreciated. Okay. Before we dive into

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um action items, uh do we have any

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reports and presentations?

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>> We do not.

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>> Okay. Anything from any member of the

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planning commission?

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Okay. Let's jump right into action

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items. The first one we have a is uh

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proposed detached ADU and uh that does

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require a public hearing. So uh Kaden,

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let's go ahead and have you introduce

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the topic and uh briefly and then we

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will open it up for public hearing and

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uh once we close a public hearing, I

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expect a lively uh and informative

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debate. So Kaden.

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>> Okay. Thank you.

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So yeah, so we were able to discuss the

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detached ADU code last planning

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commission meeting uh to warm ourselves

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up to formally recommend it uh to the

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city council coming up here soon. And so

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um you know the state Senate Bill 284

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passed for the state of Utah. So by

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October 1st as a city we need to have a

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detached accessory dwelling unit code

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adopted. Um, so we've put together this

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uh detached ADU ordinance for the

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planning commission to review and

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recommend and we took in the

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recommendations

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uh that we talked about last time and uh

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have this new this code prepared for you

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today. Um, I know we do have some

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discussion that uh Allan potentially

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wants to have or Commissioner McDonald

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wants to have uh to maybe uh continue to

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update it and continue to look at it and

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that's definitely fine. Um, we're open

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to to any and all suggestions that we

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might need for our city. So, um, so I'll

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go ahead and say that we will recommend

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that the planning commission can

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consider the the detached ADU code and,

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you know, suggest provide suggestions

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for improvement as needed and if they

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find it satisfactory, go ahead and

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recommend the approval of the of the

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code.

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So, um, exhibit A, as we went over last

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time, these are the detached ADU state

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requirements for municipalities.

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And we went over these kind of line by

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line last time, so I won't do that

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today, but um, we definitely made sure

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that our municipal uh, accessory

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dwelling unit code will meet all these

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requirements. And there's a few of these

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that the state allows the municipality

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to

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uh be more restrictive on than the state

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requires. And so that we have taken

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measures to do so. Um

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obviously this these requirements that

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the state has gone over probably don't

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reflect any and all requirements we

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could think of that would be beneficial

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to ADUs. And so that's kind of up to the

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up to us. If we there's other things

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that we think are important for our city

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that we want to add in there as long as

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it's not violating these requirements

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from the state, we can we can most

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likely add them in to our own code. Um

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so we've tried to take all these things

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into consideration and and that's what

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we've produced for you today. Um so

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there's another voice talking. Oh, there

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we go. Did I just shut it off? Okay. Oh,

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and now I just exited out of the Let me

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pull it back up real quick.

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So yeah, so as I was saying, these are

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the state requirements that we took into

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consideration and implemented into our

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own code. And so then exhibit B here is

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the updated ordinance to accessory

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dwelling units in our own Alpine

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development code. So as you can see

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here, we added a definition for detached

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accessory dwelling unit and this comes

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straight from the state.

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Uh this is the exact same definition

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that they have for that. So we just

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decided to do that same thing. We have

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the updated sections. Um so we have a

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little bit of updated language here to

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just kind of make the the ordinance flow

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better. Um so an accessory dwelling unit

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shall be considered a subordinate

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dwelling unit within part of a principal

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dwelling or detached from a principal

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dwelling and located on the same lot or

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parcel as the principal dwelling and

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which has its own cooking, sleeping and

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sanitation facilities. So updating that

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so we're um covering both internal and

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detached ADUs.

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Uh internal accessory dwelling units

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will now be 314020.

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And so this section will focus on

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internal ADUs. So, we added the word

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internal here.

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Most of the most of the section will

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stay the same. We just have some

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renumbering going on here as you can

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see. And then a little bit of language

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change on here just to make it sound

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better. So, it's not just focused on u

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you know uh internal ADUs anymore. Um

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but just to make it make sense. Oh, and

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right here as well, if a water parcel

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also has a detached accessory dwelling

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unit, no internal ADU will be allowed.

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So, that's not required by the state,

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but it's something that um we've

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considered to be potentially beneficial

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for the city to consider only allowing

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one ADU per property, but that's

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something we could hash out tonight.

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So, and then this is the new 31430 for

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detached accessory dwelling units. So,

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everything here is in green because this

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is new to our code.

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Um, we did go over this line by line

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last time. I'm happy to do it again. Um,

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it's basically the exact same. There

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might be a few little uh word changes

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that that were in here. Um,

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one thing we talked about last time is

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how many parking spaces we want to

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require on site. We talked about just

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having one because the state only has

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one required, but I ended up putting two

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in here. Um, just seemed to make more

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sense for Alpine, but the requirement is

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only one from the state. So, that is an

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option.

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We talked about last time having 1,200

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square foot sizes. Sorry.

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>> Okay. Um,

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are we still in definitions or are we

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getting into the ordinance?

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>> No, this is the ordinance.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Um,

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so we're talking about occupancy

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and I thought that the holiday ordinance

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had some good points to talk about uh

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what the relationships are.

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>> So,

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If I if I had a suggestion, it would

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just be this that basically run through

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it.

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>> Yeah. Kaden runs through his

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presentation. We do the public hearing,

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close it, and then

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>> run through things.

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>> I agree.

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>> That would Would Would that work for

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you, John?

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>> Okay. I certainly don't mean to shut

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down. What? Okay,

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>> that dandy. Yeah.

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>> Okay, good.

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>> Okay, sounds great. Yeah, we'll do that.

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Um, so we're we were talking about

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number six here. Uh, this was discussed

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together as a body last time. We talked

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about if there should be a size limit,

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what should it be? Um there was

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discussion about if if we just say it

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can be smaller than a principal

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dwelling, then someone could potentially

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build a very large ADU. Um and so it

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seemed to to the commissioners from my

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recollection that that 1,200 square foot

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seemed to be a good a good size there.

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Um and it good comp comprehensive size

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there. Um, obviously, you know, there's

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no one-sizefits-all in any of this, but

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uh it seemed to be the number we landed

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on last time. Um, so we just made sure

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here that we have the setback

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requirements and they're the same as

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accessory buildings in the zone. That's

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what we talked about last time and it

273
00:10:58,079 --> 00:11:00,959
seemed to be to be good there. Uh, I

274
00:11:00,959 --> 00:11:03,279
made sure to add in here that we have

275
00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:04,640
the height requirements called out

276
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:05,920
because we didn't have that last time.

277
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,600
But here it says the same height

278
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,200
requirement is required for accessory

279
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,600
buildings for ADUs as for accessory

280
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,040
buildings in the zone in which they're

281
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,760
located. Um, we have the materials

282
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,279
requirement that it needs to match the

283
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:20,160
house and then capacity requirements

284
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,079
here and um

285
00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:26,320
and how to remodel or add an ADU

286
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:27,600
following the correct international

287
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,839
residential building codes. and then

288
00:11:29,839 --> 00:11:32,000
getting a accessory dwelling unit permit

289
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,839
that I was actually working on today

290
00:11:33,839 --> 00:11:39,279
updating with Mara Fox. Um, so we're excited about getting that all

291
00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:42,240
ship shape as well. Um, and then as you

292
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:43,519
can see here, we're just renumbering

293
00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:45,600
this last part of the of the ADU code

294
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:46,800
that talks about non-residential

295
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,160
accessory structures. So, um, yeah. So,

296
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:51,360
like I said, we kind of already went

297
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,120
over this. That's why I kind of blaze

298
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:54,560
through it right now, but I'm happy to

299
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,320
talk about any and every part of it that

300
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,640
we want to. um and decide what what we

301
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:01,920
think.

302
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,959
>> Okay, that's great, Kaden. Thank you. Um

303
00:12:04,959 --> 00:12:06,880
and hey, I'm going to Kaden, at this

304
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:07,839
point, I'm going to go ahead and kind of

305
00:12:07,839 --> 00:12:09,040
jump through the hoops for a public

306
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:09,760
hearing.

307
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,040
>> Just want to give you a quick heads up.

308
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,079
I just texted you three pictures and so

309
00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:15,600
if you want to, you know, drop them onto

310
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,680
your desktop or something at some point,

311
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:19,760
I'm going to ask you to pull them up,

312
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,120
>> uh you know, when when it's relevant in

313
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,839
the discussion. Um okay, thank you,

314
00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:26,160
Kaden. Appreciate that introduction. Uh,

315
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,000
we need to hold a public hearing. So,

316
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,600
I'm going to go ahead and open the

317
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,800
public hearing. Um,

318
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,440
would anyone is there? Yeah, there's

319
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:36,959
nobody. Let the record reflect that

320
00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:41,279
there is no uh individual or person here

321
00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:44,720
uh physically present uh at this

322
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,160
planning commission. So, um unless I've

323
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,079
opened the hearing, I'm inviting anybody

324
00:12:50,079 --> 00:12:53,120
to come up. Uh unless somebody can see

325
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,639
something I don't, there's nobody out

326
00:12:54,639 --> 00:12:56,160
there. So, uh, it doesn't look like

327
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,399
we'll have any anybody come up to the

328
00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:02,000
podium. Uh, Kaden, is there anybody on,

329
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,079
you know, like on YouTube or is there

330
00:13:04,079 --> 00:13:05,040
anybody?

331
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,360
>> Just Marla's in the Zoom room.

332
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:07,839
>> Okay.

333
00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:08,720
>> YouTube,

334
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:09,120
>> okay,

335
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:10,320
>> is not allowed to comment.

336
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:11,680
>> Then I'm going to go ahead and close the

337
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,399
public hearing. Okay. And let's open up

338
00:13:14,399 --> 00:13:18,560
for discussion. All right. So, um, let

339
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:21,200
me just tell you what. So, yeah, Kaden's

340
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,399
always a good sport. actually called him

341
00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:23,839
this morning and said, "Okay, this

342
00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:25,600
really great, but I'm going to just dump

343
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,440
a whole bunch of stuff on you and I just

344
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,440
want you to know what's coming." I'm

345
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,880
used to it. Thank you. So, um, here, let

346
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,680
me just tell you what I did. And, and

347
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:37,440
again, again, just so the record

348
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,160
reflects in case anybody's listening, I

349
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,839
think everybody knows at this point that

350
00:13:41,839 --> 00:13:45,680
there is a state law requiring

351
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,600
municipalities to adopt ordinances for

352
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,000
uh, det.

353
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,880
It's accessory dwelling units, right?

354
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,480
But also but but like specifically

355
00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,519
detached ADUs and and there's reasons

356
00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:00,560
for that, right? One of the first things

357
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:01,760
I'm going to get into is perhaps

358
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,240
including in our ordinance kind of a

359
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,079
mission statement, you know, on that. I

360
00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:10,639
think it would be helpful. Um but just just so you know everybody

361
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:12,720
understands yeah there are very good

362
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,240
public policy reasons that that we need

363
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,399
to amend our you know ADU ordinance

364
00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:22,320
because it's been very restrictive in

365
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,560
the past but for a variety of reasons

366
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,680
including affordability the ability for

367
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,680
um

368
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,120
oh you know lower income families or new

369
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,959
you know new families just starting out

370
00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:37,680
or you know etc to What's that?

371
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,560
>> Aging in place.

372
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,720
Lots of reasons to have

373
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,920
a little more flexible housing options

374
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,920
for people. So, I think this is a good

375
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,199
thing and a step in in the right

376
00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:50,399
direction. So, that being said, um I

377
00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:52,639
think that that and again, my apologies.

378
00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:54,399
I was not here a couple of weeks ago, so

379
00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:56,560
you guys discussed all this. Um I'm

380
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,800
coming in a little bit, you know, 11th

381
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,279
hour, but you know, is what it is. Um,

382
00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:03,120
when I took a look at what what you guys

383
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:04,800
had had all looked at a couple of weeks

384
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,639
ago and that Caden and staff had put

385
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:09,360
together, I think it looks great. Um, I

386
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,680
think it is consistent and incorporates

387
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,079
all of the requirements that the state

388
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:19,040
has for the city, but I think there are

389
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,560
other elements that should go in it or

390
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,040
could go in it and I think we should

391
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,680
consider those tonight. And so I

392
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,399
prepared and handed out to all of you.

393
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:33,519
Um Jason Kaden, sorry I don't have one

394
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:35,199
for you, but I sent you the attach just

395
00:15:35,199 --> 00:15:36,800
a word document. I sent you the

396
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,839
attachment. Um you know, I I apologize

397
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:41,760
for that and I should add one for Mara

398
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,079
as well, but uh I suppose you can print

399
00:15:44,079 --> 00:15:46,399
those out, but just for sake of ease, I

400
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:49,519
included that uh here. And what these

401
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:52,000
are, I took all of these essentially

402
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,240
copied and pasted. I did a little bit of

403
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,480
I just ran out of time this morning cuz

404
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,680
you know I was up early trying to put

405
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,800
all this together and then I was running

406
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,399
you know I I can't live on my city

407
00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:04,880
paycheck so I have another job I had to

408
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,560
go to unfortunately and was running

409
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,160
meetings all day on that and and then

410
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,920
you know barely got here in time but

411
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,680
this is this is a little rough but

412
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,240
essentially I wanted to put before this

413
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,320
commission you know about oh a half a

414
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,360
dozen or so additional

415
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,360
detached ADU issues

416
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,480
that I think that we should consider.

417
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,480
And also I didn't want to leave Kaden

418
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,680
and and Mara and Jason and whoever just

419
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,079
you like wandering in the wilderness

420
00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:35,759
about well okay what what were these

421
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:38,240
particular issues and what language did

422
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,399
you want and let's go back into the

423
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:43,279
minutes and try to divine what what

424
00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:45,920
somebody said. I basically copied and

425
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,519
pasted language and just so all know

426
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:50,720
this came right out of the holiday

427
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,639
um they call them they don't call them

428
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:54,480
daddos they had some other name for them

429
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,120
but basically just detached ADUs and so

430
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,000
this is language copied and pasted right

431
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,640
out of the holiday ADU ordinance and my

432
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,079
assumption is several things is a city

433
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:10,319
in a lot of ways very similar to Alpine

434
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,559
probably deals with a lot of things like

435
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:15,039
Alpine does you know smaller lots,

436
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:18,799
bigger lots, trees, mature, you know,

437
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:23,270
mature vegetation. Um

438
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,079
like like like some some home, you know,

439
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,240
and again the the dirt, you know, lots

440
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,760
being so valuable now that some homes

441
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,280
are being purchased, scraped, and then

442
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,919
built on, right? I think we're also

443
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:37,280
going to find out because I mean, I know

444
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,400
I have neighbors that have done this,

445
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,039
right, who have garages that are already

446
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:42,240
built. In other words, accessory

447
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,480
buildings, but those are plumbed and

448
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,200
wired and they are ready to convert to

449
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,400
an ADU, a detached ADU, if and when the

450
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,640
city ever

451
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,039
um um change its ordinance. However, you

452
00:17:57,039 --> 00:17:58,640
know, are are those immediate

453
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,360
plug-andplays as as ADUs? You know,

454
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:02,559
maybe not. So, anyway, there's a few

455
00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:04,000
things that that that I wanted to go

456
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,520
through and um if we can just start

457
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,480
there. Oh, there's my glasses. Um thing

458
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,400
number one

459
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:13,760
and and I'm not necessarily going to

460
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,840
know have any opinion you know what the

461
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,720
way I would like to proceed is this um

462
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,640
that that we just kind of like take each

463
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,480
of these in turn and the first one is

464
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,080
purpose second one rental restriction

465
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,600
third dwelling occupancy we'll just take

466
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,559
them in order um and just decide as a

467
00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:30,880
body you know what that makes sense we

468
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,480
ought to include it um with

469
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,799
these modifications right and then I

470
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:38,880
don't really have an opinion caden about

471
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,840
where in our in in this this um proposed

472
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,360
ordinance, right? I mean, you can figure

473
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:50,640
out where they would most fit. Um but I did want to provide language

474
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,160
that's, you know, basically battle

475
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,520
tested and went through the entire

476
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,000
process in holiday and made it into

477
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,120
their, you know, made it into their

478
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,200
ordinance book. So that said, I felt

479
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,919
like we ought to have a a basically a

480
00:19:01,919 --> 00:19:04,320
mission statement or a purpose, which is

481
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,840
accessory dwelling units are meant to

482
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,360
assist in the creation of new housing

483
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,440
units, support a more efficient use of

484
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:10,640
existing housing stock and

485
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,480
infrastructure, and provide housing that

486
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,400
responds to changing family needs,

487
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,160
smaller households, and increasing costs

488
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,280
within the city, and not a response to

489
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,520
supplemental income or vacation rental

490
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,440
opportunities. In other words, they were

491
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,200
not proscribing those or necessarily

492
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,880
prohibiting. Although, I do want to

493
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,720
discuss a rental restriction, but some

494
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,240
sort of purpose or mission statement

495
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,559
that is this is what this is for. Okay.

496
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:33,919
So, that's thing number one. Any

497
00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:35,760
thoughts on that?

498
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:36,160
>> Add it.

499
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:36,559
>> I love it.

500
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:37,520
>> I totally agree.

501
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,160
>> Okay.

502
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,880
>> You could add that it's also

503
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,160
because of state law if you felt like.

504
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,160
>> Okay. So, there's some proposals

505
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,280
replacing anything you already have

506
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:49,679
there.

507
00:19:49,679 --> 00:19:51,600
>> Yeah. Just to provide context. Is that

508
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:52,400
what you're saying? Yeah.

509
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,679
>> Yeah. Just for context.

510
00:19:53,679 --> 00:19:54,480
>> Yeah.

511
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,280
>> So, okay. So, um there's some proposed

512
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:58,400
mo and I'll just call them proposed

513
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,039
language or model language caden. And

514
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:02,320
you know, eventually we'll get to the

515
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:03,919
point of emotion where, you know, if

516
00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:05,280
people just kind of want to keep track

517
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,679
of, you know, whoever's thinking about

518
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:10,720
emotion um might just make notes on on

519
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,160
this document as we go. Okay. Thing

520
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:19,280
number two. Um and again, again, slight context here. This is not the

521
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,120
copy and paste of the entire holiday ADU

522
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,200
ordinance. There's a lot there. There

523
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,039
there's probably half again as much

524
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:29,840
stuff that was really complicated. And I

525
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,440
was talking to Jeff earlier this this

526
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,960
morning because a lot of stuff about

527
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,760
imper like or impervious

528
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,919
about round groundwater runoff storm

529
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:39,919
drainage and things I didn't understand.

530
00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:41,520
I asked Jeff about. Anyway, a lot of

531
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,679
stuff I end up just leaving off because

532
00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:45,200
I didn't think it was terribly

533
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,559
applicable to alpine. So um so I just

534
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:50,159
wanted you to understand this is not the

535
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:54,799
entire holiday ad ordinance. Okay. Uh

536
00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:56,880
next thing I include rental restriction.

537
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,039
If rented detached accessory dwelling

538
00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:02,000
units must be rented for a minimum of 30

539
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,600
consecutive days. A rented ADU is

540
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,520
subject to annual approval of a license.

541
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,080
I just put here. Do we require rental

542
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,919
licenses? I didn't know. Apparently

543
00:21:09,919 --> 00:21:12,320
Holiday does. That was just kind of an

544
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,400
informative note for the city. But my

545
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,120
point on this one would be that we don't

546
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:18,880
want our detached ADU ordinance to

547
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,640
become a green light for VBOS's and

548
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,200
Airbnbs. And so, for example, I have a

549
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,320
um I I have a a a beach cottage, beach

550
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,400
condo in Carl's bed, where we spend a

551
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,440
lot of time. And we don't allow it's

552
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,320
just kind of a small community, and we

553
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,320
don't allow short-term rentals or or

554
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,120
what are baked into our CCNRs as STRs.

555
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,919
We only allow rentals for 30 days or

556
00:21:41,919 --> 00:21:44,000
more. And so I think then that's kind of

557
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,360
the reason I kind of linked that with

558
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,360
purpose was I thought it made sense to

559
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:48,880
have a rental restriction so our

560
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,880
detached ADU ordinance doesn't become

561
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,600
just a green light for VBOS's.

562
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,480
>> This is very common.

563
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:03,120
>> Um hey uh uh real quick just want to recognize Andy you know having

564
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,200
come blanketing on your name Andy I've

565
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,039
known you forever.

566
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:10,400
>> Spencer I know say I b it's not Andy

567
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,400
Burgess Andy Spencer. I know you as

568
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,559
Andy. Um, we already closed the public

569
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:18,400
hearing, Andy, but did you did you want

570
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,240
have anything that you want to say just

571
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,640
as in the public hearing? I would like

572
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,400
to have you here. So, every does

573
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,600
everybody know Andy Spencer? Okay. And know Andy, what is your your your uh

574
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,120
title? What is it you do with it? It was

575
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,350
Highland City, right?

576
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:36,400
» Okay.

577
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,080
>> Appreciate that. or whatever. So, uh

578
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,080
>> there's a button on the mic that you can

579
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:42,720
>> down at the base.

580
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,600
Okay. Uh yeah. So, uh

581
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,760
I used to be Highland City's city

582
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,159
engineer and public works director. Uh

583
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:52,159
since that time, I've moved over to UD

584
00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:54,159
do. I actually worked for UD do these

585
00:22:54,159 --> 00:22:56,240
days, but uh I spent a number of years

586
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,360
working in local government uh in uh

587
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,080
city staff position, often in Jason's

588
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,960
seat there. Uh, and uh, so I actually

589
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,799
just came this evening because there's a

590
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:09,840
uh, meeting after this on on uh,

591
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,120
>> well, we love having you here. We may

592
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:12,880
tap in as we're going through this

593
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,520
detached ADU ordinance and and and you

594
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,280
know, like if if it's okay, maybe we'll

595
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,720
just say, hey, you know, Andy, what do

596
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,080
you know about this or what what's your

597
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,520
experience on this or something? So, I

598
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,640
just saw you come in. I was like, "Oh,

599
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,400
geez. We'll we'll take advantage of that

600
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,159
man's expertise if if we need to or if

601
00:23:26,159 --> 00:23:26,960
we could."

602
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,520
>> Yeah. No, absolutely. and and uh I I

603
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,679
have both experience on the city staff

604
00:23:31,679 --> 00:23:34,559
side and then we built a uh detach

605
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:37,120
detached accessory structure uh a few

606
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:37,679
years ago.

607
00:23:37,679 --> 00:23:38,799
>> Yeah, I heard about that.

608
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:41,679
>> And uh so I have some some goods and

609
00:23:41,679 --> 00:23:43,280
some bads and some lessons learned and

610
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,039
some things that uh you know I would

611
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:47,120
probably do better or different uh you

612
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,360
know uh both looking at how it fit with

613
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:50,720
our parcel and then also how it

614
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,960
interacts with the neighbors. Um you

615
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:53,760
know hopefully fairly

616
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,120
>> impartial. I do want Yeah, because there

617
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:56,080
is a part where I want to talk about

618
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,760
that. So glad you're here. Thanks, Andy.

619
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,200
Um, and appreciate you being willing to, you know, chat with us as as

620
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,159
necessary. Um, and geez, I've known you

621
00:24:04,159 --> 00:24:05,760
for almost 25 years. I can't believe I

622
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,360
was blanking on your your last name

623
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:09,120
there. My apologies.

624
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:09,600
>> Um,

625
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,279
>> I do that all the time.

626
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,360
>> I know it is an age thing. I'm sorry.

627
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:16,559
Uh, okay. So, um, thoughts on a rental

628
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:18,720
restriction?

629
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,159
>> Yeah, we can.

630
00:24:20,159 --> 00:24:22,960
>> 90. Are we doing 30 or 90 or

631
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,039
recommending?

632
00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:27,600
>> Uh, you know what? I I would have zero

633
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,000
issue with 90. Um if would that make

634
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:32,880
>> consistent with

635
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,159
>> Yeah.

636
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:35,279
>> Okay.

637
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:38,640
>> So, all right. So, so basically this

638
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,720
body feels good about the rental

639
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,520
restriction except modify it to 90 days

640
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,039
and Kaden, you think that's code

641
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:45,760
consistent?

642
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,240
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. And to

643
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,320
address your question with do we require

644
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,159
rental licenses, I think Mara could

645
00:24:52,159 --> 00:24:53,200
probably speak to that better because

646
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,360
she's the one that manages those. But I

647
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,520
do know that there is an annual renewal

648
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,200
process for those that have internal

649
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,679
ADUs as of right now in the city.

650
00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:03,520
>> Are we going to have a similar process

651
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,600
for I I would assume we'll have a

652
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,120
similar process for detached.

653
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:08,000
>> I would assume so as well.

654
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,200
>> So we would probably just want some

655
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,919
language in that consistent with our

656
00:25:11,919 --> 00:25:14,400
current code which I didn't you don't

657
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,720
know off top of my head. Okay. Um all

658
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,640
right. So

659
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,240
rental restrictions looks like it's a

660
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,919
go. Three dwelling unit occupancy. Um,

661
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:27,679
Kaden, I I looked through your the

662
00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:30,880
proposed ordinance and I didn't see

663
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,840
this particular

664
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,640
um

665
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,440
uh line item or this issue, right? This

666
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,640
provision.

667
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,600
>> Um,

668
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,600
would this like why do you think high

669
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,200
why do you think Holiday has this? And

670
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,159
what's the what's what's what's why

671
00:25:50,159 --> 00:25:51,279
would we think about wanting to have

672
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:54,080
this dwelling unit occupancy or define

673
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,960
who the occupants of a dwelling unit,

674
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,720
you know, would be. I guess my thought

675
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,320
was just that we wouldn't want it to

676
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,760
like I don't mean to be offensive by

677
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,750
saying this, but like like

678
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,520
this is going to sound crappy. Oh well,

679
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,600
said like like packed full of 20day

680
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,320
laborers, right? All all sleeping on a

681
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,799
floor in somebody's

682
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:18,960
you know, ADU. I probably wouldn't want

683
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,200
that in my neighborhood. So, I'm

684
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,240
assuming that that this dwelling unit

685
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,480
occupancy, it was meant to

686
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,080
um narrow the scope of the occupants

687
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,279
that could inhabit a detached ADU. And

688
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:37,200
so, thinking that, you know, that that

689
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,720
probably is would be worthwhile. Um, I

690
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,000
think neighbors in and around somebody

691
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,880
that had a detached ADU that uh that was

692
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,400
renting it for something more than 90

693
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,720
days would probably appreciate

694
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,760
um the definition of dwelling unit

695
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,120
occupants. So, thoughts on keeping that

696
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,200
in?

697
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,000
>> So, basically two friends couldn't rent

698
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,120
at the place.

699
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:02,799
>> Well, I think it's up to four unrelated

700
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:04,400
persons living as a single family

701
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,360
housekeeping unit.

702
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:05,760
>> Okay.

703
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:06,480
>> Yeah. See,

704
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,720
>> I don't It kind of contradicts this. I

705
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,200
don't

706
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,400
>> Well, I think you know because you could

707
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,760
have up to four. So, you could maybe

708
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,200
have four college students.

709
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,559
>> Yeah, but then you should have four

710
00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:18,390
parking spots.

711
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,320
» I don't like that line personally, but

712
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,240
>> Well, okay. But, but the thing is that

713
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,998
you Okay, but how do would you look

714
00:27:27,998 --> 00:27:29,360
[clears throat] Well, no, because I

715
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,760
think you Well, okay, just just to to

716
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,360
debate that point. um

717
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,159
those those four unrelated persons.

718
00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:43,760
There's only you know like like like the landlord is going to make sure

719
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,320
have to make sure that his tenants

720
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,039
comply with the off- streetet parking

721
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:52,640
right. So I mean those two things can be

722
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,640
consistent. I mean, you might have four

723
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,880
unrelated people, but you know, you may

724
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,480
not necessarily have four cars.

725
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:58,799
>> Yeah.

726
00:27:58,799 --> 00:28:00,880
>> Or or un unless you unless you have

727
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,960
enough off- streetet parking to have

728
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,200
that many tenants. So, I think that the

729
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,559
you know, I think I think the size of

730
00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:11,279
your your your

731
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,399
availability of parking would dictate

732
00:28:14,399 --> 00:28:17,440
how many people you could rent to or

733
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,760
have in your you have in your ADU. So, for that, for that reason, I would I

734
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,000
would argue to keep it. Are you fine

735
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,919
with one and two, but not three?

736
00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:27,520
>> Yeah.

737
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,679
But what's in the current code that we

738
00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:34,240
were looking at that? Well, not current

739
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,159
because we're rewriting this

740
00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:38,799
technically, but there's no cap in an

741
00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:40,720
internal ADU, is there? There's nothing

742
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,159
that says you couldn't rent a four

743
00:28:42,159 --> 00:28:44,320
college students

744
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:45,440
>> in internal.

745
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,720
>> No, there there's not. I don't think we

746
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:47,200
have anything

747
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,679
>> or unrelated. Is there any definitions

748
00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:51,200
for

749
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,000
>> what constitutes a rental unit in our

750
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,120
internal one?

751
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,640
>> I don't think I don't believe we have

752
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,360
that. No,

753
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,320
>> I thought there was or unrelated people

754
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:01,919
or a family.

755
00:29:01,919 --> 00:29:03,520
>> Let me pull it up real quick because you

756
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,909
know it better than me, Marlo.

757
00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:10,399
» The point being is you'd prefer single

758
00:29:10,399 --> 00:29:13,200
dwelling versus multi-tenant

759
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,240
uh 10 15 whatever however many people

760
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,385
can fit in a room.

761
00:29:17,385 --> 00:29:18,320
>> [laughter]

762
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:19,919
>> Yeah.

763
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:21,919
Just Yeah. Exactly. You probably

764
00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:23,039
don't Yeah. I mean, you don't want

765
00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:24,559
people stuffed in like sardines.

766
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:24,799
>> Yeah.

767
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:27,360
>> It just because I see why you need to

768
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,000
have a max. I was just current curious

769
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,200
what our internal

770
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,320
>> We do have.

771
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:33,279
>> It just says

772
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:35,520
>> an internal has to have four off-

773
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,760
streetet parking spaces with the single

774
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,000
unit dwelling

775
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,919
because they have the ADU, but only one

776
00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:44,880
has to be designated for the ADU.

777
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,520
>> So, that's parking though. That's not I

778
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,760
but but that's not dwelling that's not

779
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,120
dwelling unit occupancy.

780
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,880
>> No, it doesn't talk about family or

781
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:53,919
anything.

782
00:29:53,919 --> 00:29:55,919
>> So I mean so I mean perhaps this ends up

783
00:29:55,919 --> 00:29:57,440
being

784
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,679
I mean I Well

785
00:29:59,679 --> 00:30:02,720
>> no it's nice to have we need to have a

786
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,200
limit.

787
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,120
>> It limits it to four which is good.

788
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:05,440
>> Okay.

789
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,240
>> I I can see the point in that. It just

790
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:08,640
yeah

791
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,679
>> frightens me. Can I ask a question? What

792
00:30:11,679 --> 00:30:14,480
if you had just hypothetically say I put

793
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,600
one of these in my backyard and I had a college aids page grandson or

794
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,480
something. I could only rent or let him

795
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,880
stay there but no roommates, right? Like

796
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,039
if we had four

797
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:29,679
>> up to four, don't you have to be Don't

798
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:31,200
you all have to be related?

799
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:31,440
>> No.

800
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,200
Well, not if we put this in, right?

801
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,399
Up to four unrelated persons. Sorry.

802
00:30:36,399 --> 00:30:38,000
Yeah, I should have gone down one more.

803
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,760
>> Yeah. So that I mean that's why that

804
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,840
provision is there I think for for

805
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,840
example college students.

806
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,000
>> Did you look at Provo or other areas

807
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,431
where they do deal with line item three

808
00:30:48,431 --> 00:30:49,120
[laughter]

809
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,720
because I've looked at theirs a little

810
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,000
bit and it's

811
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,000
>> it was let's say 22.

812
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,679
>> Well no they're they've changed it

813
00:30:55,679 --> 00:30:56,960
because of this problem.

814
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:57,360
>> Oh

815
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,760
>> because of safety because of fire

816
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,440
because of all kinds of reasons that

817
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,039
come back and they have now put caps on

818
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:05,360
things. So I I just thought it made I I

819
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,559
just thought it made sense to bas look

820
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:08,640
it's a one person living alone or it's

821
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,080
people related by blood you know by

822
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,840
family by blood etc adoption or

823
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,919
up to four unrelated persons living as a

824
00:31:15,919 --> 00:31:16,960
household unit

825
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,799
>> square foot house really is threebedroom

826
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:23,120
max right

827
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,200
>> my first house in Oregon

828
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,679
>> yeah my first was 900 but we

829
00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:28,399
>> put four of us in

830
00:31:28,399 --> 00:31:30,159
>> I got my three bedrooms in a lot smaller

831
00:31:30,159 --> 00:31:30,880
than that so did

832
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,200
>> I [laughter]

833
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,720
Okay. So, apparently they'll have three

834
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,320
bedrooms

835
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,000
or

836
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,440
>> So, so are we good with dwelling unit occupancy?

837
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:44,080
>> Sure.

838
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:44,640
>> Yes.

839
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:45,679
>> I like it as is.

840
00:31:45,679 --> 00:31:47,360
>> Okay. I think it's good.

841
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,480
>> The parking, but we can't tie parking to

842
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,640
that, but they should have enough off

843
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,799
street parking.

844
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:56,000
>> Okay. Cover.

845
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,960
>> Um,

846
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,039
okay. So, the next one is uh Oh, I'm

847
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:03,519
sorry, Michelle. I was Did Did I not Did

848
00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:04,159
I cut you off?

849
00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:04,960
>> No, not at all.

850
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,600
>> Okay. Okay. Next one then is footprint,

851
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:08,799
right?

852
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:10,799
and and like just so you're just going

853
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:12,399
to notice that this look I don't I don't

854
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:14,559
think I got this necessarily internally

855
00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:19,919
consistent but my understanding is that you all discussed last time and

856
00:32:19,919 --> 00:32:22,960
this is a little bit in in conflict with

857
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,840
the proposed

858
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,000
>> ADU because it would be number

859
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:30,480
1200

860
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,399
>> but but to me it's like okay why do you

861
00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:35,679
have it didn't make a whole lot of sense

862
00:32:35,679 --> 00:32:37,600
for me to have a one-sizefits-all and so

863
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,360
I thought the holiday seemed to make a

864
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,480
lot of sense like

865
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,279
>> and and you know I I don't I'm not

866
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:45,279
really wed to this like for example I

867
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:46,320
think we have something in here it's

868
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,840
less than or it's got to be more than

869
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,399
11,000 ft which

870
00:32:50,399 --> 00:32:51,919
>> maybe we should talk about actually

871
00:32:51,919 --> 00:32:54,640
because all because we've got a lot of

872
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,960
Did you guys do 11,000 ft I think I saw

873
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,360
on that was that to have a detached ADU

874
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,240
>> that's a minimum.

875
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,440
>> Oh that's a state minimum.

876
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,360
>> They will allow us to limit ADUs to

877
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,279
12,000 or larger lots.

878
00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:07,919
>> Okay. Do but Okay. Okay. So, if we adopt

879
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:10,080
that and we adopt the 11,000, which I

880
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,600
think I saw in your in the proposed

881
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:12,799
ordinance,

882
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:15,519
>> that would restrict

883
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:18,399
a lot of the smaller quarter acre lots,

884
00:33:18,399 --> 00:33:21,760
the 10,000 square foot lots that we have

885
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,360
in in well, the 10,000, you know,

886
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,320
CR10,000. Is it was it the intent was

887
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,600
did you have discussion around was it

888
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,120
the intent to to prohibit

889
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,799
the the CR10,000 zone from having any

890
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:37,360
detached ADU?

891
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,960
because that's effectively what it's

892
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,080
show what it is, right?

893
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,519
>> I don't know that we specifically

894
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,440
targeted that. It was just but that's

895
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,159
what it would

896
00:33:44,159 --> 00:33:46,640
>> minimum size lot that we thought this

897
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,080
was too small to do anything.

898
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,600
>> Well, that's because we we standardized

899
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:50,960
on a single

900
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,320
>> single size ADU.

901
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:52,799
>> That's true.

902
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:56,159
>> And it wasn't to just thinking that like

903
00:33:56,159 --> 00:33:58,559
>> so so there's two so this and then we'll

904
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:00,559
set we'll follow this up. In fact, maybe

905
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:02,240
we should follow this with lot coverage

906
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,679
because I think two concepts here,

907
00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:09,760
right? And the first one is tying like basically we would allow ADUs in

908
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,520
our CR10, our CR20 and our CR 40,000

909
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,679
zones, right? And and you know and up,

910
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:23,679
but we would tie the the size of the ADU

911
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:28,240
>> to the size of the lot. So I would just

912
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:32,079
say for me like I like I think you could

913
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:36,000
like is is you know I I walk and it was

914
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,000
you know when when you know back in the

915
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,599
day when you know Andy and I were in the

916
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:42,159
same ward for 20 years or whatever it

917
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,520
was Andy and and um we know was walking

918
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,800
all through I lived just south of

919
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,119
Burgess and and all of our you know a

920
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:51,119
bunch of our friends were just you know

921
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:54,399
right over here in the CR10

922
00:34:54,399 --> 00:34:55,919
and

923
00:34:55,919 --> 00:34:58,160
you can conceive of I mean those lots

924
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,359
are big enough to have an

925
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:03,280
appropriatelysized

926
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,599
detached ADU

927
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:07,760
where you could where where you could

928
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,920
also make sure that in that that when

929
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,280
you look at lot coverage right there's

930
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,040
footprint and lot coverage so in other

931
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,200
words you take the footprint of the home

932
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,599
the primary dwelling the footprint of

933
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:20,880
the ADU and that comes up to you know

934
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,040
some certain amount the concept of lot

935
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,920
coverage which we'll get to is like,

936
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:34,800
okay, what we do not want is a primary dwelling and an ADU that

937
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,480
covers 60 to 70% of that lot. It just

938
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,560
it's like a McMansion. They've overbuilt

939
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,640
the lot. They've crammed too many people

940
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,400
and cars on it. They're cramming out

941
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,400
this the the you know the the setbacks

942
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,320
and it just looks terrible and

943
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,119
encroaches on the neighbors. Um but I

944
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:53,839
think that you can if you connect like

945
00:35:53,839 --> 00:35:57,119
if you make like like footprint

946
00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:59,520
um and you consider footprint and lot

947
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,720
coverage the way Holiday has um I think

948
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,560
you can in you you can include that even

949
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,839
our that that our CR10,000 zone could

950
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:12,800
have the opportunity to have an ADU but

951
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,200
the ADU because of the size of the lot

952
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,359
is probably not going to be a 1,200

953
00:36:17,359 --> 00:36:19,839
square footprint. it might be a three or

954
00:36:19,839 --> 00:36:23,920
400 you know you know footprint. So for

955
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,960
example, if you look at what

956
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,640
um the the detached ADU what Holiday did

957
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,880
um they include with their footprint

958
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,079
here this chart and this is their chart

959
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:38,240
right so if a lot so we could for

960
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:41,680
example have a lot that is

961
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,839
less than 11,000

962
00:36:43,839 --> 00:36:45,680
or less than you know yeah less than 11

963
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,119
or what whatever it would be right to

964
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:52,400
fit our our CR 10 20 and 40,000 um they

965
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,400
have a a maximum footprint of that ADU

966
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,839
on a smaller lot would be 800 and then

967
00:36:59,839 --> 00:37:01,760
you know they they go up from there to

968
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,680
where if you end up over you know once

969
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,839
you're over 80,000 that's a twoacre lot

970
00:37:05,839 --> 00:37:08,240
and the max they can go is a 1400 square

971
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,000
foot you know is 14 footprint. So if it

972
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,200
happened to be two story it would be

973
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,000
2,800 right but the footprint itself is

974
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,920
1,400. So, it just seemed to me to make

975
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,760
sense to do two things. Allow

976
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,520
um all of Alpine to have a detached ADU,

977
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,440
including CR10,000,

978
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,480
but tie the max footprint of that ADU to

979
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,200
the size of the lot. And the larger the

980
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,440
lot, the larger ADU you could have.

981
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,240
>> Sure. But it would be limited by when we

982
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:44,960
talked about lot coverage the percent of

983
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,880
the primary dwelling plus the ADU can be

984
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,200
no more than the next thing we'll talk

985
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,000
about is is a percent covering of the

986
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,560
structures on the lot. So that's the

987
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,040
concept presented here in footprint and

988
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:04,079
it's different than what we have in

989
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:06,640
whichever one oh detach.

990
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,000
>> It's different than number six. because,

991
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:10,880
you know, I think there's a better

992
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,640
approach than a one-sizefits-all. So,

993
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:13,280
that's my

994
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,119
>> put things in context. We did talk right

995
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:17,040
out of the gate about allowing different

996
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,680
size based off the size of the lot. What

997
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,599
we didn't have is the research prior to

998
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:23,280
coming to the meeting to have a

999
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,040
methodology or format that seemed to

1000
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,960
make sense that we could wrap our our

1001
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:27,680
heads around.

1002
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:28,640
>> Like lot coverage,

1003
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,240
>> lot coverage and those things you've

1004
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:34,400
talked about the size of the house, the main dwelling house and then based

1005
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,079
off ordinances, we just kind of came to

1006
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:38,240
the conclusion to keep it simple. That's

1007
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,079
how we came up with that 1,200. Then we

1008
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:41,839
use the states number not going below

1009
00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:43,680
11,000. So it was not trying to be

1010
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,119
discriminatory saying we're going to

1011
00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:47,839
take a specific size and limit it. We

1012
00:38:47,839 --> 00:38:50,240
just didn't have the opportunity before

1013
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:52,880
the meeting to have a formula or some

1014
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,560
methodology that allowed us to say this

1015
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:55,280
makes sense.

1016
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:55,760
>> Okay.

1017
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,920
>> So we did discuss it kind of

1018
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,920
>> take a length of 10 minutes.

1019
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:01,680
>> So so let's so let's get past just the

1020
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,599
block then. So, so, so the option then

1021
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:07,040
is to adopt some form of of of this

1022
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,280
footprint with a chart or stick with

1023
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,400
just the flat number six 1,200 or some

1024
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,640
other number. I would argue for

1025
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,160
something similar to what Holiday has

1026
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,760
done. So I think we should just see like

1027
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,839
okay what's what's the consensus of this

1028
00:39:21,839 --> 00:39:24,400
planning commission with respect to this

1029
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,359
issue of footprint

1030
00:39:27,359 --> 00:39:30,320
>> and so you so you would cap it to

1031
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,839
eliminate I mean if I look at the data

1032
00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:33,520
here you're not going to have someone

1033
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,160
with a 20,000 foot home have a

1034
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,240
>> but but it's a footprint not a total

1035
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:39,200
square footage.

1036
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:39,680
>> Yeah.

1037
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,160
>> I don't know how we defined it in our

1038
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,640
closed ordinance. We just said flat 1200

1039
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,400
ft. So we're talking

1040
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,560
>> Yeah. I I I think it should be by

1041
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:49,920
footprint. I think it should be the way

1042
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,390
Holiday has done it.

1043
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,839
» So footprint meaning one the one floor

1044
00:39:57,839 --> 00:39:58,400
essentially.

1045
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,720
>> Yes. Yeah. The the footprint on the lot.

1046
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:02,720
>> So I mean so if you got So if you have a

1047
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,200
3,000 foot primary dwelling

1048
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,079
>> and it's 1500 on the main floor and 1500

1049
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:11,839
on the second floor, it's 3,000 square

1050
00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:14,160
feet total. It's a 1500 square foot.

1051
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,560
It's it's 1500 square footprint.

1052
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,000
>> And the same with your ADU, right?

1053
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,839
Whatever the footprint is, it might be a

1054
00:40:19,839 --> 00:40:22,720
twotory, maybe, maybe not, but it's it's

1055
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:24,800
the footprint because you're looking at,

1056
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,720
>> you know, again, like

1057
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,640
>> lot coverage is sort of part two of

1058
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,760
this.

1059
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:30,480
>> Okay.

1060
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,880
>> Allan, does the garage count as the

1061
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,960
footprint?

1062
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,880
>> It would of a home

1063
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,800
>> of the ADU.

1064
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,079
>> It would of the ADU of the main main

1065
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:43,839
home of the main. Oh, yeah. I'm sure it

1066
00:40:43,839 --> 00:40:44,160
does.

1067
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,560
>> of the ADU. If the Does the garage of

1068
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,200
the ADU count as the footprint?

1069
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:50,720
>> Yep.

1070
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,280
>> I believe. Yeah, I think so. I think so.

1071
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,200
I mean, because because I mean, I've

1072
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,880
always understood that that like when

1073
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,720
we've talked about setbacks before and

1074
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:00,720
footprints, it's

1075
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,359
>> your your walls. Like, so I don't think

1076
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:05,200
it includes driveway. I It doesn't

1077
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,160
include a slab driveway.

1078
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,119
>> That's why they got into

1079
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:08,400
>> I don't think it includes covered

1080
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,680
porches.

1081
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:10,160
someone

1082
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,920
>> if I you know John I mean we've had this

1083
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,480
discussion before like like we we have

1084
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,880
it I think we have a definition of

1085
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,520
>> do we have a definition of footprint

1086
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,920
>> hey Kaden do we have in our alpine

1087
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,960
ordinances a definition of footprint

1088
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,920
>> I am not sure I can try to look it up

1089
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,880
>> because we were just talking that that I

1090
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,800
mean I recall that when we've looked at

1091
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,000
setback issues it goes from like okay

1092
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,720
you're your your your walls

1093
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,000
and covered, you know, and and is it

1094
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,440
covered decks or is it all decks or just

1095
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:46,400
covered decks?

1096
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,319
>> Covered decks.

1097
00:41:48,319 --> 00:41:49,440
>> I think, is what we Yeah.

1098
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:50,720
>> Yeah. So,

1099
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:52,240
>> anything that has a structure sitting on

1100
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:55,280
top of Yeah, I thought it was based on

1101
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,560
the foundation.

1102
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:57,599
>> Yeah.

1103
00:41:57,599 --> 00:41:58,560
>> Overhangs.

1104
00:41:58,560 --> 00:41:59,839
>> So, yeah. So, I mean, I think that

1105
00:41:59,839 --> 00:42:01,040
that's footprint, right? We're not

1106
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,480
talking about height and total square

1107
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,920
footage. We're talking about footprint.

1108
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,960
The square footage of the footprint.

1109
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,240
So, do we do we go ahead

1110
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:13,040
>> I I was just do we need to put a minimum

1111
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,640
square footage? I mean, is that a is

1112
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,520
that something?

1113
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,599
>> So, yeah, what I was going to comment on

1114
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:19,200
is I mean, what we talked about last

1115
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,480
time is if someone has a a footprint of,

1116
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,880
you know, 1,200 square feet, but then

1117
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,400
they can do a second floor because

1118
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,839
they're far enough from their setback,

1119
00:42:27,839 --> 00:42:30,000
that's another 1,200. That's a 2400

1120
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,400
square foot ADU. That's basically a

1121
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,040
second home. And so I'm I'm just

1122
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,640
imagining Shane, our public works

1123
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,079
director, talking about how

1124
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:38,640
>> Yeah, but that

1125
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,920
>> how we're going to have the capacity for

1126
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,359
all these large homes.

1127
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:42,160
>> Yeah.

1128
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,280
>> Um

1129
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,319
>> we did talk about

1130
00:42:44,319 --> 00:42:46,400
>> but

1131
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:47,760
>> just a thought.

1132
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,359
>> Well, yeah, but it gets into that,

1133
00:42:49,359 --> 00:42:50,960
right? It's also subject to the

1134
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,520
availability for utilities,

1135
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:54,960
>> right? All this is subject to

1136
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,599
>> also it maxes out at 1400, but you're

1137
00:42:57,599 --> 00:42:59,119
right. That's just the footprint.

1138
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:00,400
>> Yeah, it's just the footprint. It could

1139
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,480
be 2,800. and and I mean it can be look

1140
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,760
this is just holiday's numbers right

1141
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,839
there's engineering that goes into that

1142
00:43:09,839 --> 00:43:12,400
there's public works that goes into that

1143
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,079
I'm just saying that it makes and and

1144
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:15,359
like you know I don't really know why

1145
00:43:15,359 --> 00:43:20,960
Holiday went less than 8,000 800 to 14 to 21

1146
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,200
I mean I I like the kind you know maybe

1147
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,960
it's

1148
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:32,720
zero to to 11,000 11,000

1149
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:34,480
21,000. I mean, I don't know. Something

1150
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,400
that fits Alpine. I We have We have

1151
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,040
three.

1152
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,440
>> You could do it. Yeah. We have three.

1153
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:40,560
>> You could do it just that.

1154
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:41,040
>> Yeah.

1155
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,400
>> Make and and

1156
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,240
>> Yeah. So sliding.

1157
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:45,680
>> So yeah, I mean you could have you could

1158
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,760
have maybe no more than you know four,

1159
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,920
right? Which is 0 to 10,000 10,0001 to

1160
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,200
>> 20,000 20,0001 to 40,000 and then

1161
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,000
greater than 40,000. Yeah. And you have

1162
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,960
four and then you tie based on what you

1163
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,599
know, city engineers said, hey, look, if

1164
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:07,359
that's the footprint and they could go

1165
00:44:07,359 --> 00:44:11,359
up, you know, another level in that ADU,

1166
00:44:11,359 --> 00:44:15,280
>> then uh you know, basmulas

1167
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,160
and everything else. I I am not tied to

1168
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,640
either the lot size square feet or total

1169
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,440
footprint. I just like the concept

1170
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:23,920
>> sure

1171
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,720
>> of proportional

1172
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:31,680
>> of of an ADU proportional in size to

1173
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:37,760
>> is anybody in favor of allowing ADUs

1174
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,560
on properties less than 12,000

1175
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,400
>> less than the 11 that the state manage

1176
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,520
>> or or less than 11.

1177
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,000
I I I would recommend that we don't

1178
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,240
allow it and to say that's state.

1179
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:51,839
>> Let me pull up this map while you guys

1180
00:44:51,839 --> 00:44:52,400
are thinking.

1181
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,960
>> To Allan's point, we're we're

1182
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,480
>> excluding all of the 10 TR 10,000.

1183
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,960
>> Well, I mean I wouldn't, right? I mean,

1184
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,160
I would say he wouldn't. I'm saying I'm

1185
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:04,880
saying we should

1186
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,359
>> if they meet setback and parking and

1187
00:45:07,359 --> 00:45:09,440
it's a small enough footprint that it

1188
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,400
doesn't overwhelm the

1189
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,920
lot coverage then you know per but that

1190
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,720
is but I mean I'm not wed to it but Andy

1191
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,839
you've got a thought on that

1192
00:45:21,839 --> 00:45:23,040
>> and while he's coming up I'll just say

1193
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,720
the city engineer put together this map

1194
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:26,800
showing lots over 11,000 square feet in

1195
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,079
the city. Oh,

1196
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:30,079
>> I happen to live down here in the

1197
00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:34,160
CR10,000 zone, but I mean our lot is

1198
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,760
almost 20,000 square foot. So, uh it

1199
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,280
seems

1200
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,359
uh unfair if you're going to allow the

1201
00:45:41,359 --> 00:45:44,880
rest of the city um to have that to just

1202
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,720
flat out strike that as a zone, right?

1203
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,520
something that's I I think that uh the

1204
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,040
idea of doing something that's

1205
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,680
proportional to the lot size so that you

1206
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,079
ensure that there remains a portion of

1207
00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:59,119
the lot that's open and uh that that

1208
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:00,800
really is what preserves your

1209
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,400
>> Well so let's ask you right your lot I

1210
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,760
mean yeah your lot goes

1211
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,480
>> it's really deep we're super we're super

1212
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:07,599
narrow and we're super deep

1213
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:08,800
>> so you're like a half acre right

1214
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,160
>> yeah we're we're just under a half acre

1215
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,760
>> so so I mean look a lot of your

1216
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,000
neighbors that are on a 10,000 square

1217
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,200
foot lot

1218
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,000
>> yeah we got We we have every every lot

1219
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,760
size under the under the sea in our

1220
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,079
neighborhood because it is there was no

1221
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:23,680
zoning ordinance at the time, right? But

1222
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,839
yeah, I have a I have a number that that

1223
00:46:25,839 --> 00:46:27,760
actually have a couple that are, you

1224
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,839
know, approaching an acre and then we

1225
00:46:29,839 --> 00:46:31,440
have a number of them that we probably

1226
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,160
have everything from

1227
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:33,359
>> so it wouldn't be by zone, right? If it

1228
00:46:33,359 --> 00:46:35,359
were by lot size in your in your

1229
00:46:35,359 --> 00:46:37,280
opinion, right, both both living in the

1230
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,240
CR10,000 and you know, city engineer,

1231
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,319
>> is there just in your in in Andy

1232
00:46:42,319 --> 00:46:45,359
Spencer's opinion, is there a lot size

1233
00:46:45,359 --> 00:46:47,920
below which it makes no sense to put

1234
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,680
even a small ADU?

1235
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,160
>> Yeah, I I'm much smaller than than than

1236
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,839
you guys in in answering that. I think

1237
00:46:53,839 --> 00:46:55,920
you're you're down more at the size of

1238
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,119
like a uh 6,6500

1239
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:02,319
square foot uh because you know and and

1240
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:04,720
my opinion is a little bit skewed uh

1241
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:07,520
because of I I served a LDS mission in

1242
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,040
Australia and uh they had ADUs were

1243
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,720
quite common there and they referred to

1244
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:16,400
them as granny flats uh and uh so uh I

1245
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:17,680
had a lot of experience with granny

1246
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,960
flats etc on on fairly small lots and the and the size of the ADUs in

1247
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,800
those cases. were actually very modest.

1248
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,040
They would often be, you know, what I

1249
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,040
would guess, I wasn't smart enough as a

1250
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:30,480
missionary to measure them, but I would

1251
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:31,680
guess that they, you know, you were

1252
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:32,720
talking about something in the

1253
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,440
neighborhood of about a 500 footprint,

1254
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,560
you know. So, you take uh a lot that's

1255
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,359
6,000 foot, 6,500 foot, something like

1256
00:47:41,359 --> 00:47:43,520
that. You you know, most of those homes

1257
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,760
on those are going to be maybe a 1500

1258
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,839
footprint, maybe around there. you throw

1259
00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:49,920
another 500 square foot, you've got

1260
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,319
about uh you know, throw in a driveway

1261
00:47:52,319 --> 00:47:54,160
there and you've got about 50% of the

1262
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,520
lot is covered with some type of

1263
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,440
impervious structure. That's probably

1264
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,160
about at least my personal threshold at

1265
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,599
that point. Then you start to get all

1266
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:03,520
structure all impervious and then that's

1267
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,119
where you start to lose that character

1268
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:07,119
of alpine. Um, so,

1269
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:08,720
>> so, so I would just tell you, you know,

1270
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,880
when I switch over to lot coverage, at

1271
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,280
least in Holiday, Andy, uh, you know,

1272
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,640
they they they do allow ADUs on on a lot

1273
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,640
less than 10,000 ft, but it can't be any

1274
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,400
Well, they they have the total footprint

1275
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,800
at 850. When you flip over to lot

1276
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,280
coverage, um there's there they've got

1277
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,040
in here that that the primary dwelling

1278
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,200
unit plus the ADU

1279
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,960
uh on a lot size less than 10,000 ft uh

1280
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,720
cannot exceed 35%

1281
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:39,680
lot coverage,

1282
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,599
>> which which is somewhat proportional to

1283
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:42,800
what I was tossing out off the top of my

1284
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,559
head, right? Because that that that

1285
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:46,000
footprint doesn't include all your other

1286
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,760
impervious surfaces, your driveway,

1287
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,319
everything else. So, so you know, in my

1288
00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:52,000
head, what I'm trying to say is by the

1289
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,200
time you mix in your ADU, your primary

1290
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,280
structure, and your driveway, you still

1291
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:02,240
want 30% I mean 50% uh roughly 50% uh

1292
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,720
landscape, right? Landscape does not all

1293
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:06,640
landscape's just grass, right? Something

1294
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:07,920
that's not a building and not a

1295
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,920
driveway.

1296
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,760
>> Broader definition of landscape. To me,

1297
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,000
that's that's reasonable. I think at the

1298
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,559
point that you get below somewhere in

1299
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:19,599
that 6 to 7,000 ft range, you start to

1300
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:21,200
get where it's going to be difficult to

1301
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,960
also get your parking in there and have

1302
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,040
all those other constraints. And so, you

1303
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,960
know, I really haven't done a real deep

1304
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,520
dive on that. Uh, you know, as far as

1305
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,520
how can I get my parking because that's

1306
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,920
the other element of these ADUs. Uh, you

1307
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,240
know, the the number one complaint

1308
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:37,760
you're going to get from them is how

1309
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,440
many people are living in them. And I

1310
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:40,960
sat and listened to you. I'll discuss

1311
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,559
that and and and the number two is going

1312
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:47,680
to be uh the the height as it pertains

1313
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,200
to the neighbors and number three is

1314
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:49,839
going to be the parking.

1315
00:49:49,839 --> 00:49:50,480
>> Yeah. Well,

1316
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:51,599
>> you know, and those are all things

1317
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:53,040
you're wrestling with tonight, right?

1318
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,359
And uh uh but I but I do think just

1319
00:49:55,359 --> 00:49:57,040
restricting it by straight across by

1320
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:57,599
zone.

1321
00:49:57,599 --> 00:49:59,839
>> No, I don't think I think that that's

1322
00:49:59,839 --> 00:50:01,359
the one where I spoke up and I was like,

1323
00:50:01,359 --> 00:50:02,880
look, I don't think that sounds fair if

1324
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,559
you happen to have a lot that's big

1325
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:06,319
enough, but I I like the idea of

1326
00:50:06,319 --> 00:50:08,079
proportionality like you're talking

1327
00:50:08,079 --> 00:50:11,040
about. uh you know it's proportional to

1328
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,640
uh you know your lot because that's

1329
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,079
where you're going to maintain a certain

1330
00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:15,440
feel of openness.

1331
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,599
>> So in holiday it's kind of flat. Is

1332
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:20,559
there any concern with us living where

1333
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:23,359
you have more mountains from a resale

1334
00:50:23,359 --> 00:50:25,920
value or now you get more density you

1335
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,599
get more lights those types of things. I

1336
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:29,200
know in Holiday they talked about LED

1337
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,000
lights and stuff.

1338
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,359
>> We'll get to light I mean but we will

1339
00:50:31,359 --> 00:50:32,880
get to lighting and density right which

1340
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,200
is a lot. Do you have any feedback on

1341
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,319
just what it does to property values by

1342
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:40,000
>> increasing density, those kinds of

1343
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:40,720
things?

1344
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:44,319
>> Well, I guess, you know, the one that

1345
00:50:44,319 --> 00:50:46,240
I'll take exception to is is is

1346
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:49,119
lighting. Um, you know, because if you

1347
00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:51,119
come down to my neighborhood, be it that

1348
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:53,200
there because I only live a block east

1349
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,920
of here. I live on 200 East. You know,

1350
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,240
I'm just, you know, stones throw from

1351
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,200
here. Uh but uh come down to my

1352
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,000
neighborhood and uh you can walk up and

1353
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,839
down at night and there's a few homes

1354
00:51:05,839 --> 00:51:07,440
that have their porch porch lights on

1355
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,839
but it's fairly dark. You go to a new

1356
00:51:09,839 --> 00:51:12,160
single family home neighborhood in town

1357
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,319
here and it's lit up like Salt Lake

1358
00:51:14,319 --> 00:51:16,960
Airport runway. So I don't know that ADU

1359
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,960
is going to be the tipper on that. You

1360
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,640
know I I think that uh that that uh you

1361
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,240
know there there's other other elements

1362
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:28,960
that are going to be the tipper to me. I think that that setback becomes very

1363
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:35,520
critical as you work with with your your dive into that next.

1364
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,160
>> So I think I think setback and height

1365
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,880
are what helped preserve uh the

1366
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,240
neighbors property value, right? Um and

1367
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:45,920
uh like I said, some of the personal

1368
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,240
lessons that I learned through building

1369
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:50,160
our own. I've built a few structures for

1370
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,480
cities, etc. that are fairly close to

1371
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,880
adjacent property lines. But, uh, some

1372
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,839
of the things that we didn't see coming

1373
00:51:57,839 --> 00:51:59,280
when we built ours because ours is

1374
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,800
twotory. Um, it's a almost 1300

1375
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,599
footprint and so we built a garage on

1376
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:07,359
the bottom. We built a big bonus room on

1377
00:52:07,359 --> 00:52:09,680
the top. Um, it could easily be

1378
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,319
converted to an ADU one day. Um, we

1379
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:13,839
right now have a covenant with the city

1380
00:52:13,839 --> 00:52:15,520
that we won't do it. That's what the

1381
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,119
current code is. And we didn't build it

1382
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:18,720
for that purpose. We built it because

1383
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,640
our house is small and we needed a place

1384
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,359
as the family grew where we could have

1385
00:52:23,359 --> 00:52:25,280
Sunday dinners and all the other things

1386
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:25,839
that you

1387
00:52:25,839 --> 00:52:27,200
>> where you where you where you guys could

1388
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:28,800
all rock out, right? Put get the band

1389
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:29,200
together.

1390
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,760
>> Exactly. Get the band back together. Um

1391
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,760
but uh but you know uh ours because of

1392
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,160
some dreams or whatever that I have I

1393
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,040
made it a little bit taller and uh you

1394
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,920
know the height definitely influenced

1395
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,920
our neighbors opinions of how it you

1396
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,839
know how it how it came together and and

1397
00:52:47,839 --> 00:52:51,280
our setbacks right um you know I think

1398
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:52,800
we probably hit it right on our rear

1399
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,359
setback on our side setback I would have

1400
00:52:55,359 --> 00:52:57,040
loved to been able to slide it a little

1401
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,280
more adjacent but I think that those

1402
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,119
>> those are elements that that are really

1403
00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:02,400
going to influence how your neighbors

1404
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,960
feel about it because it does have a big

1405
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,880
impact on the neighbors.

1406
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,480
>> No, that's great input because we're

1407
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,400
going to get into height setbacks and

1408
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:11,839
all that, but I think we've got to look

1409
00:53:11,839 --> 00:53:13,599
at So, awesome. Thank you. Okay.

1410
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:16,400
>> Okay. Allan, can I just propose so we

1411
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:17,839
can keep moving?

1412
00:53:17,839 --> 00:53:20,559
>> Okay. Here's my proposal.

1413
00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:24,960
>> 0 to 10,000, 10,000 to 20,000, 20,000 to

1414
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:29,680
40,000, 40,000 to 80,000.

1415
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:30,559
Okay.

1416
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:37,359
>> And and I wrote down on the 0 to 10,800

1417
00:53:37,359 --> 00:53:42,400
10,000 to 20,900 20,000 to 40,100

1418
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,079
and 40,000 to 800,400.

1419
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:51,430
That's my proposal. So

1420
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,920
» So it's 20 to 40 and 40 to 80.

1421
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,480
>> Yeah. So it's basically,

1422
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:02,559
you know, a quarter acre to half acre, to an acre, acre, one acre to

1423
00:54:02,559 --> 00:54:04,800
two acres.

1424
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:05,599
Okay.

1425
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:07,119
>> And and then I think there should be

1426
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:08,720
some language there that because it's

1427
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:09,920
got to be like, look, this is a

1428
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,720
recommendation or proposal subject to

1429
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,800
review by our city engineer. And there is language in here about if

1430
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,079
utility because utilities have to

1431
00:54:18,079 --> 00:54:18,960
support it.

1432
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,680
>> And that's something that I just don't

1433
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,760
>> know about, right? like look how big are

1434
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,119
these ADUs? How many people are going to

1435
00:54:25,119 --> 00:54:27,839
build ADUs? What what's the exper what

1436
00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:29,520
you know what's the experience of other

1437
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,520
cities who have sure who who have opened

1438
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:32,960
up you know the floodgates because they

1439
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:34,720
had to I don't know the answer to any of

1440
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:37,839
those things and and you know um

1441
00:54:37,839 --> 00:54:39,760
>> yeah Jason you you know your crew you

1442
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,760
guys can can all like that that might be

1443
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,920
our recommendation based on holiday but

1444
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,599
maybe we're in a different situation

1445
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:49,839
with water and sewer than they are. So

1446
00:54:49,839 --> 00:54:50,880
perhaps when we was come up with a

1447
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,599
recommendation, but it'll be subject to,

1448
00:54:53,599 --> 00:54:56,240
you know, again, review and comment by

1449
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,400
>> No, I'm I'm just trying to move us. I

1450
00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:59,760
just want to try to move us forward.

1451
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,280
>> Let me just add one more thing on this.

1452
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:02,800
We didn't talk about it. We're talking

1453
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,480
about lot size here in all of these

1454
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,000
discussions. We're not talking about

1455
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,480
buildable envelope.

1456
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,040
>> Um should we be considering it on a

1457
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,480
buildable envelope versus lot size?

1458
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,119
>> So I think we'll cover that next on lot

1459
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:19,359
coverage. So, can we do lot coverage and

1460
00:55:19,359 --> 00:55:22,240
then you can see if that

1461
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:23,520
>> covers what you're talking about because

1462
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:24,079
I mean

1463
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:25,440
>> I know you're talking about an envelope

1464
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,839
within a lot but that starts having I

1465
00:55:27,839 --> 00:55:29,200
think the city has to go back and like

1466
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,960
we'll redraw a building envelope for

1467
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,640
every lot where I think you cover that

1468
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,079
with lot coverage

1469
00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:35,839
>> and a percentage of your lot

1470
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:36,880
>> I I would agree

1471
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,960
>> can can do that. So, all right. So, if

1472
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,400
we're good on that, can we dive into lot

1473
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:40,720
coverage?

1474
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,119
>> Well, no it's it's more footprint than

1475
00:55:43,119 --> 00:55:46,400
that. Um,

1476
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,640
>> so are you just talking about setbacks?

1477
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,079
>> I'm No, I'm talking about grade.

1478
00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:53,040
>> No, he's talking about buildable area.

1479
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,400
But I think but I think we could do the

1480
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,640
percentages. I think what Allan's trying

1481
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,040
to say is we could we could do a

1482
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,440
percentage

1483
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,920
and and maybe and and maybe the

1484
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,599
percentage is tied. I think maybe the ti

1485
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:12,559
the percentage is tied to the buildable

1486
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:15,440
space. the build ordinances about that,

1487
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,280
right? I mean, like like what what the

1488
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,440
buildable area of a lot is.

1489
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,280
>> The buildable area is determined at

1490
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:22,720
plat.

1491
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:23,200
>> Yes.

1492
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,319
>> At Plat review, so it's way earlier than

1493
00:56:26,319 --> 00:56:29,359
>> anything is built on the property.

1494
00:56:29,359 --> 00:56:32,400
ordinances are still going to go

1495
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:33,040
>> relative to.

1496
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:34,960
>> So, so do we do we need to add an

1497
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,280
element in the ordinance that just

1498
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,599
reminds people that we we can't encroach

1499
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:44,799
upon or outside the buildable areas that

1500
00:56:44,799 --> 00:56:46,079
are in that their own plants.

1501
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:49,280
>> Yeah. Is that Yeah. I mean, it might

1502
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:54,559
conflict. It might satis I guess what I'm seeing is it might satisfy one

1503
00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:56,000
but not satisfy that.

1504
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,240
>> Yeah. I I can see very easily that we

1505
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:02,079
get such a large footprint between the

1506
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:05,359
primary and ADU that we now longer have

1507
00:57:05,359 --> 00:57:07,760
space within the buildable area.

1508
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,400
>> Um even though they have a huge lot.

1509
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:10,720
>> Yes.

1510
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:12,240
>> They might have a twoacre lot.

1511
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:13,760
>> It's all going up the mountain.

1512
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,680
>> Yes.

1513
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,200
>> Exactly. That's why I'm saying, you

1514
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,920
know, maybe maybe has to satisfy

1515
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:21,680
>> the ground water. I mean the rain water

1516
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:22,240
and

1517
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,200
>> Yeah. Maybe it just has to satisfy A, B,

1518
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,200
and C. has to satisfy the footprint, has

1519
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,119
to satisfy the percentage, and it has to

1520
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:34,160
satisfy the buildable area.

1521
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,040
>> Footprint, lot coverage, and then

1522
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,520
>> buildable area or the envelope.

1523
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,520
>> Yeah.

1524
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:41,920
Does that

1525
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,280
>> I just I I just don't

1526
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,200
know that it um

1527
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,040
informs

1528
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,200
the decision of what makes good land use

1529
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,040
in terms of you know being good

1530
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,960
neighbors and

1531
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,640
>> well I think we'll get into that with

1532
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,040
respect to setbacks and height

1533
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,280
>> but what I don't yeah I do not know but

1534
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,960
look if yeah I don't know the answer to

1535
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,520
like I I I just live in a flat part of

1536
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:14,319
the city. So, I don't ever think about

1537
00:58:14,319 --> 00:58:17,040
hillside dwellers. I just suspect that

1538
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,960
there's some hillside lots hillside

1539
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,400
hillbillies. Hillbillies are flatlanders

1540
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,910
versus hillbillies. Um I would

1541
00:58:26,910 --> 00:58:27,599
[clears throat] just suspect there's

1542
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:31,040
hillside lots that you like they they

1543
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,799
just might not even lend themselves to

1544
00:58:32,799 --> 00:58:35,359
ADUs because you just like there's just

1545
00:58:35,359 --> 00:58:37,040
nowhere to put one, right? Right. So

1546
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:38,079
even even though you could even though

1547
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:39,839
it might might satisfy lot coverage, you

1548
00:58:39,839 --> 00:58:41,920
look at it just like hey we don't I mean

1549
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,160
we we don't have anywhere to like

1550
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,960
>> yeah where to put one. I I suspect it

1551
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:47,760
take care of

1552
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,559
>> I think a simple line could be all this

1553
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:54,079
is subject to having space in the

1554
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:56,000
buildable area of their lot.

1555
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,760
>> Yeah. But but there has I think there

1556
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,200
has to be something some kind of

1557
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,359
criteria not just subject to buildable

1558
00:59:01,359 --> 00:59:02,079
area. What does that mean?

1559
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:03,520
>> But we have we have that somewhere in

1560
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:04,559
our ordinance. Right.

1561
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:06,799
>> So yeah. So, I'll I'll just say this. We

1562
00:59:06,799 --> 00:59:08,880
look if a lot has a building envelope,

1563
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,280
we'll see it on the plat. We'll make

1564
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,440
sure any accessory building is in the

1565
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,599
building envelope, just like a main use,

1566
00:59:15,599 --> 00:59:16,079
>> right?

1567
00:59:16,079 --> 00:59:18,559
>> A main accessory building has to be 5t

1568
00:59:18,559 --> 00:59:20,319
away from the main use. That's the

1569
00:59:20,319 --> 00:59:22,559
current code requirement. If it meets

1570
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:24,000
all those requirements, then it's a it

1571
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:24,480
can be built.

1572
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:25,520
>> We don't need to mention it.

1573
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,119
>> I don't I don't think so personally

1574
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:28,480
because we look at that anyway.

1575
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:28,880
>> That's fine.

1576
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:29,119
>> Yeah.

1577
00:59:29,119 --> 00:59:31,200
>> Okay. Did you find that footprint

1578
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,520
definition? There is no footprint

1579
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,040
definition in our code.

1580
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,040
>> Well, yeah, might need one. So, perhap

1581
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:37,839
might need one.

1582
00:59:37,839 --> 00:59:38,559
>> Yeah.

1583
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:40,960
>> Do we want a minimum? Do we want a state

1584
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:41,440
minimum?

1585
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,559
>> Well, I was just going to say that's

1586
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:44,640
what my question. I mean, 200 square

1587
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,960
foot minimum that that's like a trailer

1588
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:47,760
house.

1589
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:48,079
>> Yeah.

1590
00:59:48,079 --> 00:59:49,760
>> Oh, you know what? They Well, the weird

1591
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,680
thing about that though is Troy. It's

1592
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,480
like they they have detached ADU shall

1593
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,400
provide a footprint of minimum 200

1594
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,640
square feet, but then a lot less than

1595
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,240
800. They say that that like the total

1596
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:03,119
Oh, is that

1597
01:00:03,119 --> 01:00:06,960
>> Yeah, it can be max 800 but minimum two.

1598
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,440
>> Okay. Yeah. I look I I have no opinion

1599
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:13,440
on 200. That would be a 400 square foot.

1600
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:14,720
>> That's what holiday. I don't know why

1601
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:15,680
they put 200 in.

1602
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:16,960
>> Yeah. Well,

1603
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,920
>> I think it really is a 10 by 20

1604
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,359
>> any dwelling. That's what

1605
01:00:21,359 --> 01:00:23,280
>> Yeah. I mean I mean may maybe I don't

1606
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:24,799
know why that's their minimum. Maybe the

1607
01:00:24,799 --> 01:00:27,920
minimum should be 400 or 500. I don't

1608
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:29,280
have an opinion. It's just why I think

1609
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:29,839
we'd want it.

1610
01:00:29,839 --> 01:00:32,160
>> I'll say our current internal ADU is a

1611
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,760
minimum of 300.

1612
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,200
>> Okay.

1613
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:36,640
>> So, it could match that.

1614
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,480
>> Okay. We then let's match it.

1615
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:38,880
>> Okay.

1616
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:40,319
>> Then it's consistent.

1617
01:00:40,319 --> 01:00:41,359
>> Okay.

1618
01:00:41,359 --> 01:00:43,680
>> All right. So, it' be 300. Okay. So,

1619
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,040
>> you're good with those numbers. What

1620
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:51,030
about the 800, 900, 1100, 1400?

1621
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,280
» It doesn't I mean it doesn't mean that

1622
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,280
much to me,

1623
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,480
right? I mean, it it It will. It will

1624
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,040
when somebody has a two acre lot and

1625
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,880
they want to build

1626
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,960
>> they want to build something bigger.

1627
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,920
>> But to me if it's if it's coming in with

1628
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,960
right like because

1629
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,880
>> as you look at lot coverage for example

1630
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,640
the larger your lot gets your primary

1631
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,640
dwelling plus the ADU the percent that

1632
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,040
it can cover gets smaller.

1633
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,079
>> Yeah. So let's go what? 8 n a thousand

1634
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:26,960
and then 14.

1635
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,480
>> Yeah. I mean if if like okay

1636
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,000
to bigger than two acres

1637
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,880
>> and and that the tallest or or the

1638
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:41,280
largest footprint is 1,400 square feet

1639
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,240
is does that does you know and and you

1640
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,640
don't exceed

1641
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:47,839
uh

1642
01:01:47,839 --> 01:01:48,880
>> 20 20%

1643
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,839
>> 20% lot coverage. Are you are will you

1644
01:01:51,839 --> 01:01:56,549
have overbuilt the lot?

1645
01:01:56,559 --> 01:01:59,200
» No, I'm just saying. I'm I'm just asking

1646
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,079
if if those numbers are good.

1647
01:02:02,079 --> 01:02:04,240
>> And you're you're saying I don't have

1648
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,400
anything I don't have a opinion on the

1649
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:07,040
numbers.

1650
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,200
>> I I I don't I mean

1651
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,920
>> we Holiday pulled them out of thin air

1652
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:13,760
or they made sense based on their

1653
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:14,799
engineering,

1654
01:02:14,799 --> 01:02:17,119
>> based on people's use, based on size of

1655
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:18,799
the lot. It's when I look at their lot

1656
01:02:18,799 --> 01:02:20,960
coverage,

1657
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,920
the larger the lots are, the total

1658
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,599
cover, you know, the primary dwelling

1659
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:28,880
plus ADU gets smaller and smaller and

1660
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:33,030
smaller compared to the total lot.

1661
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:34,079
» How about this?

1662
01:02:34,079 --> 01:02:36,079
>> But but Jeeoff, honestly, I have no I

1663
01:02:36,079 --> 01:02:37,760
have no real opinion like should the

1664
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:40,480
biggest one be 1400 square foot, 1,000

1665
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,400
square foot, or 2,000 square feet

1666
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,079
footprint? I don't

1667
01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:44,880
>> how do how do you

1668
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,319
>> I don't have any I don't have any real

1669
01:02:46,319 --> 01:02:47,119
opinion about it.

1670
01:02:47,119 --> 01:02:47,599
>> Yeah.

1671
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:49,280
>> How do you determine infrastructure? I

1672
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:50,799
mean last time I asked worst case

1673
01:02:50,799 --> 01:02:52,720
scenario or best case scenario depending

1674
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,440
upon how you look at it. If you make it

1675
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,280
available to this number of lots,

1676
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:04,000
sewer, water safety, snow cleaning, all

1677
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,559
that stuff. At what point do you hit a

1678
01:03:06,559 --> 01:03:08,000
threshold where you say, "All right, we

1679
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,079
created this ordinance where we and the

1680
01:03:10,079 --> 01:03:11,280
people that did it first can do it and

1681
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:12,480
then all a sudden you've got to cut it

1682
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:12,960
off."

1683
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:13,200
>> Yeah.

1684
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:14,960
>> I mean, I look at boxel maybe a bad

1685
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,400
example,

1686
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:17,520
>> but

1687
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,119
>> you know, you talk with the snow removal

1688
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:20,880
or you talk with safety or you talk with

1689
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,559
flood. All of a sudden, you've got a

1690
01:03:22,559 --> 01:03:24,160
problem because the density is different

1691
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,240
than the county approved it versus the

1692
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:27,039
city.

1693
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:29,280
>> What happens when you open this up and

1694
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,760
now you've got potentially double the

1695
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,720
density? Well, it's proportional. So, so

1696
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,200
A, we have to open it up, right? Yeah.

1697
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,520
B, we can't like like anything greater

1698
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,039
than we have to open up to any lot

1699
01:03:41,039 --> 01:03:43,599
greater than 11,000, right, Kaden?

1700
01:03:43,599 --> 01:03:44,000
>> Correct.

1701
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,680
>> And so, Kaden already threw up the map

1702
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,200
of like other than than basically, you

1703
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:53,109
know, downtown.

1704
01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:54,480
» I mean, it's right here. Like,

1705
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:55,280
>> it's everybody.

1706
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,280
I mean, almost everybody

1707
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,920
in Alpine can build an ADU if they want.

1708
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:01,839
So, somebody that knows water and safety

1709
01:04:01,839 --> 01:04:03,680
and sewer and everything else, what does

1710
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:05,839
that do to Alpine?

1711
01:04:05,839 --> 01:04:07,599
>> That's a great question for Jason and

1712
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:08,640
Shane.

1713
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:09,920
>> But but I mean like I have no idea,

1714
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,240
right? I'm sure there are stats on just

1715
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:13,920
because you could. I mean, look, I'm not

1716
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,440
going to go build an ADU.

1717
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:16,240
>> It's your neighbor Mike.

1718
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,480
>> That's the problem. You can't forecast.

1719
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,240
>> Well, you probably can forecast because

1720
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,000
it probably is experience. I don't know

1721
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,760
it. I don't know the number. We know

1722
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,079
it's something less than 100%.

1723
01:04:26,079 --> 01:04:26,400
>> Yeah.

1724
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:27,680
>> Right. I mean, not everybody's going to

1725
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,079
do it, but it's but if but if 50% did

1726
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:33,760
it, if 30% did I I I I don't know that

1727
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,839
number, but it doesn't it's like

1728
01:04:35,839 --> 01:04:37,119
apparently the state didn't take that

1729
01:04:37,119 --> 01:04:38,720
into consideration when they said thou

1730
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,039
shalt do this.

1731
01:04:41,039 --> 01:04:42,640
>> So, what what were you say? What were

1732
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,240
you going to propose, John?

1733
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:47,599
>> It was actually a different kind of

1734
01:04:47,599 --> 01:04:49,280
category. I was gonna like you broke up

1735
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:52,079
the uh footprint. I was going to break

1736
01:04:52,079 --> 01:04:53,280
up the

1737
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:54,799
>> percentage.

1738
01:04:54,799 --> 01:04:55,359
Okay, great.

1739
01:04:55,359 --> 01:04:57,039
>> Okay. Okay. What are you proposing?

1740
01:04:57,039 --> 01:04:59,200
>> Yeah. So, yeah, let's let's

1741
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,359
>> cap the whole thing at 1,200 instead of

1742
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:03,920
1400. Use your same scale, but go 800,

1743
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:05,839
900, 1,000, and 1,200.

1744
01:05:05,839 --> 01:05:07,920
>> Sure, I'm fine with that.

1745
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,559
>> So, 20 to 40 would be a,000. 40 to 80

1746
01:05:10,559 --> 01:05:13,920
and up is 1,200 and go back to that me.

1747
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,240
>> I got 40 and up.

1748
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,319
>> 40 and up is 1,200. 20 to 40,000. 10 to

1749
01:05:20,319 --> 01:05:21,680
29.

1750
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:26,799
>> Why, 1200, not 1400? Um because the city

1751
01:05:26,799 --> 01:05:28,000
went to 12.

1752
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:28,400
>> Yeah.

1753
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:28,960
>> Okay.

1754
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,280
>> Yeah. I'm I'm totally good with making

1755
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:32,160
that recommendation.

1756
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,880
>> I Yeah. I No, I I've I have I have

1757
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,039
frankly no just other than arbitrary,

1758
01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:39,760
>> right? But that was what where where did

1759
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,240
you guys get 1,200?

1760
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,200
It was I mean in the in the there was

1761
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:46,480
some data we looked at in the

1762
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,079
PowerPoints presented by uh Utah League

1763
01:05:50,079 --> 01:05:51,839
of Cities and Towns and that seemed to

1764
01:05:51,839 --> 01:05:55,280
be a on the higher end but also had a

1765
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,319
limitation that number 1,200.

1766
01:05:58,319 --> 01:05:59,839
>> I'm good. I'm good with those numbers.

1767
01:05:59,839 --> 01:06:00,720
Okay. Me too.

1768
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,640
>> Percent coverage. Okay.

1769
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,960
>> So So maybe it makes sense to like ne

1770
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,240
next jump to lot coverage. We'll we'll

1771
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,240
cover setback and height after because

1772
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:11,760
this is sort of part and parcel

1773
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,160
literally. So total allow this this is

1774
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:15,920
this holiday total allowable lot

1775
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,319
coverage for all structures including

1776
01:06:18,319 --> 01:06:20,559
the primary single dwelling and the

1777
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:23,839
detached accessory or detached accessory

1778
01:06:23,839 --> 01:06:26,240
dwelling unit but excluding swimming

1779
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:27,839
pools, ponds with artificial liners and

1780
01:06:27,839 --> 01:06:29,280
other water features which is what

1781
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,400
Holiday had um is set forth on the

1782
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:33,839
following chart expressed as a

1783
01:06:33,839 --> 01:06:36,559
percentage of lot size. So, um you know,

1784
01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:38,720
Jeff and John, I mean, maybe we take

1785
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,440
that chart here if people are because

1786
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:42,960
look, I think I think if you're going to

1787
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:47,440
do what we just did on um footprint,

1788
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,000
then then you got to do the same thing.

1789
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,839
You've got to also include lot coverage,

1790
01:06:51,839 --> 01:06:52,640
right?

1791
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:53,039
>> Yep.

1792
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:55,520
>> You have to. And and so just make it a

1793
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:55,839
little bit

1794
01:06:55,839 --> 01:06:58,000
>> Yeah. So just so just make

1795
01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:59,440
>> ju just just just make this one

1796
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:00,720
consistent with what you did.

1797
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,839
>> Is less than 10,000 35%.

1798
01:07:03,839 --> 01:07:06,240
>> 10,000 to 20,000 31%

1799
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,480
>> or go 30 just because it's

1800
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,280
>> Yeah, I I I said 30.

1801
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:12,720
>> 30. [laughter]

1802
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:14,799
>> I like I like round numbers.

1803
01:07:14,799 --> 01:07:17,119
>> 20 to 40. Mathy, Michelle.

1804
01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:19,839
>> So 20 to 40 25%.

1805
01:07:19,839 --> 01:07:20,720
>> Okay.

1806
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:22,240
>> And 40

1807
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:23,760
>> 40 and up.

1808
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:25,760
22.

1809
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,799
That's where they go. Where we stopped.

1810
01:07:28,799 --> 01:07:32,000
at 12, which was the 60, and

1811
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,440
they stop at 22 for the 60 for the,200

1812
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:36,079
foot lot.

1813
01:07:36,079 --> 01:07:38,640
>> So, they get they get down to 20.

1814
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:40,720
>> But that's bigger than we're going.

1815
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,359
We're not going to 1400. So, if we stop

1816
01:07:43,359 --> 01:07:46,000
at 1,200, then we stop at 22.

1817
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,039
>> Sure.

1818
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:48,640
>> Okay. Great.

1819
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:49,520
>> 22.

1820
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:50,160
>> Sure.

1821
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:51,200
>> That last.

1822
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:53,440
>> Yeah. I think that's Okay,

1823
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:54,400
>> totally workable

1824
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,079
>> then. All right, we're actually we're

1825
01:07:56,079 --> 01:07:57,039
getting to the end of this, believe it

1826
01:07:57,039 --> 01:08:00,000
or not. Okay, set back. I think we like

1827
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,119
personally I think we have a big problem

1828
01:08:03,119 --> 01:08:03,599
here.

1829
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:06,799
>> Alan, can I ask you on this? Um, sorry.

1830
01:08:06,799 --> 01:08:09,839
Is this So, just lot coverage, are you

1831
01:08:09,839 --> 01:08:12,880
wanting, as Andy brought up,

1832
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,239
>> 50% needs to be not needs, but

1833
01:08:16,239 --> 01:08:19,839
recommended to be um landscaped. Are you

1834
01:08:19,839 --> 01:08:21,920
wanting What are you wanting on that?

1835
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:23,839
Are you wanting these exact verbiage

1836
01:08:23,839 --> 01:08:28,197
that you have here under lock coverage?

1837
01:08:28,207 --> 01:08:29,279
[snorts]

1838
01:08:29,279 --> 01:08:31,600
>> Um,

1839
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,159
>> are you talking structures only?

1840
01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:37,040
>> So I Yeah, look, just total allowable

1841
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,000
lot coverage for all No,

1842
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:41,520
>> very good point.

1843
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:42,560
>> Um,

1844
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:44,000
>> structures percent cover

1845
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,159
>> for all structures including the

1846
01:08:46,159 --> 01:08:49,839
primary. So, so okay, the only exclusion

1847
01:08:49,839 --> 01:08:51,920
that Holiday had was swimming pools,

1848
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:53,600
ponds with artificial liners and other

1849
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,759
water features. Okay. So, for all

1850
01:08:55,759 --> 01:08:57,679
structures, what structures are going to

1851
01:08:57,679 --> 01:09:00,080
be on?

1852
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:00,640
>> So,

1853
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:01,520
>> a property you're going to have a

1854
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:02,400
primary dwelling.

1855
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:03,120
>> Primary dwelling.

1856
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:04,560
>> You're going to have the ADU,

1857
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:07,279
>> ADU, a pool house,

1858
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:10,870
>> accessory building,

1859
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:12,640
you know. Yeah. I mean, there's a tough

1860
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,679
Well, I don't think

1861
01:09:15,679 --> 01:09:18,239
>> and That's why I'm asking.

1862
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:22,560
>> Um, I do not Well, okay, that's a really

1863
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,960
good question. And so,

1864
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:26,960
we probably should modify that because

1865
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:28,560
to your point, Jason, it's a really good

1866
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,960
question. They had a whole section of

1867
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,679
their code about imper like it's all

1868
01:09:33,679 --> 01:09:35,920
about drainage and impervious stuff and

1869
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,960
like ah got so far down in the weeds.

1870
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:40,000
So,

1871
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,679
>> which is something we should probably

1872
01:09:41,679 --> 01:09:42,000
consider.

1873
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,400
>> We should. So may so do we do we say the

1874
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,799
total totalable total allowable lot

1875
01:09:46,799 --> 01:09:49,440
coverage for all structures which shall

1876
01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:51,440
include which shall be the primary

1877
01:09:51,440 --> 01:09:54,159
dwelling plus the ADU

1878
01:09:54,159 --> 01:09:55,600
>> or do we include more than that

1879
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,120
>> plus access accessory structures

1880
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,199
>> any accessory do you want to include the

1881
01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:02,800
pool do you want to include the slide

1882
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,560
you because as of right now when we're

1883
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,880
reviewing some of these lots people are

1884
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,280
they're almost building out

1885
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,480
like they have no landscaping

1886
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:14,080
And so that

1887
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:15,280
>> pools and patios,

1888
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:16,560
>> pools, patios,

1889
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:17,360
>> driveway sports,

1890
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:18,320
>> pool houses,

1891
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:18,960
>> all of that.

1892
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:20,560
>> You know, it's like I think I think we

1893
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,480
get a real hard time as a city going in

1894
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:25,840
and saying to people that look, we're

1895
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,000
going to legislate what hardscaping you

1896
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:28,560
do.

1897
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:28,960
>> Yeah.

1898
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:30,560
>> You know, I I think that however we

1899
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,800
draft lot coverage, it can probably only

1900
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,760
be the primary structure and the ADU.

1901
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,080
Would you agree with that? and then and

1902
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:39,520
then kind of figure out, you know,

1903
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,440
accordingly,

1904
01:10:41,440 --> 01:10:44,560
you know, what what's what's

1905
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,120
like what's the right then if that's the

1906
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,600
case, what's the right percentage

1907
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:50,960
>> because because look, when you're

1908
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,560
driving by somebody, I mean, yeah,

1909
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,080
somebody might have a pool house, but if

1910
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,400
you've got pickle ball courts and

1911
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,040
swimming pools and a basketball court

1912
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:00,880
and whatever, I mean, it's it's

1913
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,600
typically below their seven foot fence,

1914
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,360
you don't see it. It's not bugging the

1915
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,120
neighbors. you don't have a big massing

1916
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,120
problem. You know, I think the problem

1917
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,000
where we're trying to really solve is is

1918
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,080
having a massing problem where where it

1919
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,640
just looks like a a McMansion on a tiny

1920
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:18,800
lot and you're encroaching on your

1921
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,000
neighbors,

1922
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,760
>> right? And I don't think we want to get

1923
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,320
into the business of legislating how

1924
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,960
much hardscaping somebody can have in

1925
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,040
their backyard. So I think the

1926
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,920
structures would probably be defined as

1927
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:33,600
more narrowly defined as primary

1928
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:37,199
dwelling plus the ADU and then

1929
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:40,239
accordingly maybe we have a smaller

1930
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:43,360
percentage coverage because like you you

1931
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,199
see over here on this this chart I don't

1932
01:11:45,199 --> 01:11:46,800
know if you guys have it up Jason that

1933
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:49,040
there was a third

1934
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:51,440
um um column

1935
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:54,080
and it was about the impervious stuff

1936
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,640
right and I just deleted it and got rid

1937
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:00,960
of it. So, but their structures,

1938
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,440
I mean, maybe they did include pool

1939
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:05,600
houses and

1940
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:06,880
I don't know what I don't know what all

1941
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:10,320
they included, but maybe point it should

1942
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:13,679
now there are accessory structures that

1943
01:12:13,679 --> 01:12:16,560
are garages or indoor pickleball courts

1944
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,960
that they're 30 feet tall and they're 10

1945
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,120
feet off the property line. Are you

1946
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,840
wanting to include that or sorry, 20

1947
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,239
feet off the prop 30? Anyway, there's

1948
01:12:26,239 --> 01:12:27,920
some big exceptions.

1949
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:29,520
>> Yeah. Well, go.

1950
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,520
>> I mean, probably, right?

1951
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:32,480
>> We need to

1952
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:34,320
>> Yeah, probably

1953
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:36,000
because may So, maybe the definition of

1954
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:39,199
structures does include those permanent,

1955
01:12:39,199 --> 01:12:41,520
you know, like permanent structures,

1956
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:42,960
which is which is probably not

1957
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:45,840
somebody's tough shed, but it probably

1958
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:47,920
is a more permanent structure with a you

1959
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:49,360
know, I mean, do we define permanent

1960
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,159
structures? I mean, Andy, do you have

1961
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:55,440
any insights on this? I mean, but it's

1962
01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:56,719
Yeah, I think you're right, Jason,

1963
01:12:56,719 --> 01:12:58,719
because you don't like because if you

1964
01:12:58,719 --> 01:13:01,280
somebody's already got

1965
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,560
a garage in back and maybe they've got a

1966
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,800
20, you know, a 12 or 15 foot pool

1967
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,440
house. I mean, permanent structures, you

1968
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:11,760
probably would want to say, "No, you

1969
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,920
know what? You're you're already over

1970
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,159
the percent coverage, so no, you're not

1971
01:13:16,159 --> 01:13:17,679
going to be able to do an ADU."

1972
01:13:17,679 --> 01:13:18,080
>> Yeah.

1973
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:19,760
>> So, I think those I think those I think

1974
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,280
it probably should be permanent

1975
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:25,750
structures to include

1976
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,199
any accessories,

1977
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:29,920
>> you know, garages,

1978
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:30,960
>> building,

1979
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:32,880
>> pool houses,

1980
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:36,560
primary structures, and the proposed

1981
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:37,679
ADU. Okay.

1982
01:13:37,679 --> 01:13:39,040
>> All of which would be permanent

1983
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:40,800
structures.

1984
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:42,000
I don't think you want to start lumping

1985
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,000
in pickleball courts, tennis courts,

1986
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:45,760
>> and that's fine, too. I was just it was

1987
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:46,239
other examples,

1988
01:13:46,239 --> 01:13:47,920
>> but that's a really good point.

1989
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:48,800
>> So, okay,

1990
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,360
>> Alan, what three numbers are you using?

1991
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,480
Uh, less than 10,000, 10,000 to 20, 20

1992
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:55,440
to 40.

1993
01:13:55,440 --> 01:13:58,320
>> Uh, John will answer or Jeff, one of the

1994
01:13:58,320 --> 01:13:59,520
two.

1995
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:03,120
>> I've got less than 10,000, 35%, 10,000

1996
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:08,800
to 20,000, 30% 20 to 40,000, 25%

1997
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,480
um 40 and above 22%.

1998
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:14,560
>> Yeah.

1999
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:17,840
>> 40,000. And and then to Jason's point,

2000
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,040
the language of lot coverage would need

2001
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:24,800
to be modified to to to contemplate

2002
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,600
permanent structures. And maybe we need

2003
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,679
to define permanent structures.

2004
01:14:29,679 --> 01:14:32,400
>> Well, it just in in here just says for

2005
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:33,600
all structures.

2006
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:34,320
>> Yeah.

2007
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:36,400
>> For all structures. And then

2008
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:37,520
>> and then

2009
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:39,360
>> so that that would be a shed. That'd be

2010
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:40,800
a pool house. That' be a garage. Yeah.

2011
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:41,280
Andy,

2012
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:42,640
>> I I was just going to say since you

2013
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:45,360
asked, I came up. Uh I like Allen's

2014
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,400
definition of permanent structures. Um

2015
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,280
uh you know, because uh often times your

2016
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:52,800
tough sheds or whatever are somewhat

2017
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,280
transient. I've got uh you a couple on

2018
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:57,040
my lot, one I'm planning to tear down. I

2019
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,120
just need to get there. And and but I

2020
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:00,239
think if you define your permanent

2021
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:02,880
structures as a structure that is

2022
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,320
attached to the ground with a permanent

2023
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:06,560
foundation, then you get at what you're

2024
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:08,480
really driving at, which is the

2025
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:10,560
collective lot massing. What you're

2026
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,400
trying to really say is, yeah, you can

2027
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:14,640
have your landscape be what it is. Um,

2028
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:16,719
but the, you know, that lo lot lot

2029
01:15:16,719 --> 01:15:18,320
structure massing that's going to be

2030
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:19,920
there forever because if you come in and

2031
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:21,520
you build a foundation and then you

2032
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,280
attach a structure to it, be it a pool

2033
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:24,560
house or be it

2034
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:26,159
>> some type of accessory structure or an

2035
01:15:26,159 --> 01:15:28,159
indoor pickle court, whatever it is,

2036
01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:30,560
it's a, you know, permanent structure

2037
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,280
massing that influences how your

2038
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:35,760
neighborhood feels and the perception of

2039
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:37,199
uh your neighborhood both as you drive

2040
01:15:37,199 --> 01:15:38,640
down the street and as you live next to

2041
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,800
it. So, I like the permanent structure

2042
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:43,120
definition more than somehat.

2043
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:44,719
>> Jason, did you catch that awesome

2044
01:15:44,719 --> 01:15:46,320
definition of permanent structure that

2045
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:47,840
Andy just rattled off?

2046
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:49,679
>> So, probably did.

2047
01:15:49,679 --> 01:15:51,520
>> Things that don't go vertical.

2048
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,320
>> You look at the mass. I I wouldn't I

2049
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:58,960
wouldn't because to me I I think that

2050
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:00,480
that's where I was getting at with with

2051
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:01,760
there's lots of different forms of

2052
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,159
landscape, you know, as long as as long

2053
01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:07,760
as it's not intrusive on the neighbor's

2054
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:09,920
yard, uh you know, or the neighbor's

2055
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,520
view or how you feel as a neighborhood.

2056
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,440
To me, uh, my definition is lot a lot

2057
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:17,679
how the building massing affects my

2058
01:16:17,679 --> 01:16:20,480
perception of the neighborhood as I go

2059
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:22,719
down the street and I, you know, it's

2060
01:16:22,719 --> 01:16:24,000
those permanent structures that really

2061
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,400
affect your perception of massing. Uh, a

2062
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:28,080
lot of these, you know, landscape

2063
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,360
elements or recreational elements don't

2064
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:33,280
necessarily have that same, at least in

2065
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:38,719
my opinion, effect on you. Like I don't look at a by comparison I don't

2066
01:16:38,719 --> 01:16:43,440
look at a a lot with a primary dwelling

2067
01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:45,199
and a pickle ball court the same way as

2068
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:47,440
I view would view as far as building

2069
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:50,000
massing when I think of a lot with a a

2070
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:51,920
large accessory structure. That's what

2071
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,159
I'm getting is you have a pickle ball

2072
01:16:54,159 --> 01:16:55,920
court with lighting that's maybe 20 feet

2073
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,400
tall and it's on or you've got a pool

2074
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,120
that has a tube slide or some big

2075
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:02,640
structure that's like a volcano that's

2076
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:04,080
got a tube coming through it you can't

2077
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:04,320
see

2078
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:05,840
>> yeah I wasn't thinking about the tube

2079
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:09,360
slides there is a lot of ornate uh slide

2080
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:11,040
features these days but oft times those

2081
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,159
are hooked to the uh to the pool house

2082
01:17:14,159 --> 01:17:15,679
or something to where I think they would

2083
01:17:15,679 --> 01:17:17,280
be tied into that permanent structure

2084
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:18,800
but you've got an excellent point that

2085
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:20,320
there are some elements that I wasn't

2086
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:22,400
really thinking have uh but I was just

2087
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,719
trying to think of you know what do I

2088
01:17:24,719 --> 01:17:26,719
see from the street as I as I go down

2089
01:17:26,719 --> 01:17:28,800
the street that's that's where in my

2090
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:30,719
perception I I was going you know but if

2091
01:17:30,719 --> 01:17:32,080
it's a little tough shed or whatever

2092
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,400
that might come or go I don't I don't

2093
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:35,920
think that I would get as worried about

2094
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,080
that as I would you know those permanent

2095
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:39,600
>> I think it's vertical I guess the

2096
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,760
question is if you have nonbuilding

2097
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,440
vertical is that an issue from your

2098
01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:45,120
perspective

2099
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,520
>> non-building vertical I mean something

2100
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:49,760
like about a light pole you know a light

2101
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:51,120
pole or Most people [clears throat] take

2102
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:52,640
pickle balls offensive just because of

2103
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,280
the dang sound, not the view of it. But

2104
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:57,760
>> yeah, I to me the lights are less

2105
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,520
obtrusive than the fencing that often

2106
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:00,960
times goes around it. You know, most

2107
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:02,960
people that do do pick a ball will put

2108
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:06,239
up a a 15oot fence or so. And often

2109
01:18:06,239 --> 01:18:08,080
cities ordinances allow that where

2110
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,239
you're only allowed, you know, an 8 foot

2111
01:18:10,239 --> 01:18:12,400
fence, I think, in a few peaks. So

2112
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:13,920
that's an interesting that's an

2113
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:17,920
interesting uh element. I think uh to to

2114
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:22,480
narrow down your um question in my mind.

2115
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:25,600
Um I think a single lights a little not

2116
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:27,600
as much but something that is

2117
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,400
permanently a fixed that you know is is

2118
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:31,920
visible above your fence is something

2119
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,320
that you would begin to count into that.

2120
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,400
Uh, like I said, I wouldn't consider a

2121
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,400
tough shed that because oft times those

2122
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:40,080
are portable, but you know, like the

2123
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:43,679
tube slide probably would.

2124
01:18:43,679 --> 01:18:45,520
>> Well, and that's where my my definition

2125
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,080
is. If if you if you came in and you put

2126
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:49,920
a foundation and you fixed it to the

2127
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:51,199
ground, then it's permanent.

2128
01:18:51,199 --> 01:18:54,320
>> Yeah. Some cities have 24 hours. If you

2129
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,400
can move it in 24 hours, it's

2130
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:57,920
non-permanent.

2131
01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:59,440
>> If you could pick it up and get rid of

2132
01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:04,560
it in 24 hours. I've seen that as a

2133
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:06,320
>> John

2134
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:08,400
back. You can get rid of a lot of stuff

2135
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:08,560
for

2136
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,320
>> other

2137
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:12,640
meeting in 32 minutes.

2138
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,800
>> Okay. Well, let's let's

2139
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,600
>> Okay. Well, let's blaze. Okay.

2140
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:20,000
>> Um All right. So, let let's cover

2141
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,440
setback and height really quickly.

2142
01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:27,840
Here's my only issue with uh the

2143
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,080
AD ordinance that that was proposed to

2144
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,440
us is that it uses the setback of

2145
01:19:33,440 --> 01:19:37,280
accessory dwellings and it uses height

2146
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,600
requirement for accessory dwellings. So

2147
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:40,960
here's my issue, right? Because you

2148
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:43,760
might have an ADU that like we just

2149
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,159
decided our smallest ADU is 1,200 square

2150
01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:49,520
foot footprint. So if it's I mean it

2151
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:52,080
like okay if it's right it could be that

2152
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:53,120
big

2153
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:55,840
>> and if like let's just say we allow it

2154
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,239
to go 24 feet tall or 25t tall.

2155
01:19:58,239 --> 01:20:03,669
>> Okay right if you look at our current

2156
01:20:03,679 --> 01:20:05,760
setback requirements

2157
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,280
uh this is Alpine City Accessory

2158
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:10,320
Structures. Uh if if a building stands

2159
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:12,880
between 10 and 20 feet tall the rear

2160
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,040
yard setback is 10 ft from the rear lot

2161
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,679
line. The sideyard setback is five feet

2162
01:20:17,679 --> 01:20:21,040
from the side lot line. Distance to main

2163
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:22,960
house must maintain a minimum gap of

2164
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:24,800
five feet from the primary residential

2165
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,360
dwelling. If built 12 feet or closer,

2166
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:29,360
shared by a roof wall, it's calculated,

2167
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:30,880
but but I don't know that that's going

2168
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:34,000
to necessarily

2169
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:36,480
like okay, I don't I'm not sure how this

2170
01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:39,280
works, but the big issue and Kaden can

2171
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,280
probably like like help clear that my

2172
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,440
mind is if we're like we have to allow

2173
01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:45,440
these ADUs. They're going to be like a

2174
01:20:45,440 --> 01:20:46,480
small house. Yeah.

2175
01:20:46,480 --> 01:20:48,159
>> Nobody wants a small house. I don't

2176
01:20:48,159 --> 01:20:49,440
think I just don't think we want the

2177
01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:52,000
same setbacks that are applicable to

2178
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:52,880
accessory dwellings.

2179
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:53,440
>> I agree.

2180
01:20:53,440 --> 01:20:55,920
>> I think they have to be setbacks that

2181
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:57,760
are either the what primary dwellings

2182
01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:58,719
are

2183
01:20:58,719 --> 01:21:02,159
>> or something

2184
01:21:02,159 --> 01:21:04,800
>> closer to a primary dwelling. Yeah, that

2185
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,120
was my issue with how this is written is

2186
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:10,080
we got to allow these ADUs. Nobody wants

2187
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:12,320
them to Andy's point, right? Nobody

2188
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,040
wants them right on their, you know,

2189
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:17,120
like I don't want my neighbor. You I get

2190
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,199
it. You get to have one. I don't want

2191
01:21:19,199 --> 01:21:21,679
you to put it five feet off the

2192
01:21:21,679 --> 01:21:22,159
property.

2193
01:21:22,159 --> 01:21:23,679
>> What What What do we have currently for

2194
01:21:23,679 --> 01:21:25,199
the setbacks in the co?

2195
01:21:25,199 --> 01:21:26,560
>> Yeah. So, I'll say this. It will only

2196
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:28,560
feel like a second house if we don't if

2197
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:30,400
we based on footprint and not on living

2198
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,280
space like we were planning on. If we

2199
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:35,280
limit it in that way, it will feel like

2200
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,520
an accessory dwelling unit, not a second

2201
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:39,840
house on a property. Uh, with the

2202
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:41,440
setback question, you were saying five

2203
01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:44,560
feet away at 25 feet. That that doesn't

2204
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,719
comply with code. Five feet and 10 feet,

2205
01:21:46,719 --> 01:21:49,120
that's only in the TR10,000 zone.

2206
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:50,560
>> Otherwise, you have to be 10 feet from

2207
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:52,800
the side and 15 feet from the back. And

2208
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:54,639
if you go want to go up to 25 ft, you

2209
01:21:54,639 --> 01:21:56,880
have to add 10 feet more of setback.

2210
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:57,360
>> Yeah.

2211
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,159
>> So, I I feel like it's a non-issue.

2212
01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:01,920
>> Okay. All right. Well, then then that

2213
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:04,239
was just me thinking

2214
01:22:04,239 --> 01:22:06,400
>> like like a tough shed

2215
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:08,320
>> can be right. If if you're saying it's

2216
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:09,840
already

2217
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:10,480
>> in

2218
01:22:10,480 --> 01:22:15,760
>> um Yeah, then that's fine. So So yeah, I just

2219
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:18,800
>> It's not It's not the same setbacks as

2220
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,120
accessory structures. It's the same

2221
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:23,120
setbacks as the primary home.

2222
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:24,639
>> Yes.

2223
01:22:24,639 --> 01:22:25,920
>> Currently, we have it written as

2224
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:28,080
accessory structures, but you can have

2225
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,560
it for primary homes if you would like.

2226
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,000
>> It it really just depends on what you

2227
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:33,120
think.

2228
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:35,120
>> It's written right now, but Okay. But

2229
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:37,360
the setback of an accessory structure

2230
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:39,520
that is let's say it's let's say

2231
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,040
somebody had an ADU

2232
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:44,800
>> and it was 12 feet or less. What what

2233
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:46,960
would be the required setback for that

2234
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:50,239
ADU? Basically, it's a onestory ADU,

2235
01:22:50,239 --> 01:22:51,600
right?

2236
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,920
>> What would be the what would be the rear

2237
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:54,880
and the side setback?

2238
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:57,040
>> 15 feet in the rear, 10 feet on the side

2239
01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:59,120
>> for Okay. For for a 12 foot

2240
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,520
>> for a 12oot a small one.

2241
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,760
>> Yeah, I think that's fine. Okay. then then we can leave it. I was

2242
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:06,960
thinking it could get closer. I just

2243
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:08,639
want to make sure it wasn't

2244
01:23:08,639 --> 01:23:11,760
>> right on either of the property lines.

2245
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:12,080
Okay.

2246
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,000
>> But we have we have setbacks that are

2247
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:18,560
different than that or accessary.

2248
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:21,669
>> Exactly.

2249
01:23:21,679 --> 01:23:22,800
» The sheds are

2250
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:24,719
>> first the smallest accessory buildings

2251
01:23:24,719 --> 01:23:26,560
they can be up to two feet away.

2252
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:27,199
Correct.

2253
01:23:27,199 --> 01:23:31,120
>> Yes. Well, and and then look fally, let

2254
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:33,040
me just revisit something you quickly

2255
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:35,440
said. If you guys come back to us and

2256
01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:38,880
say, "Hey, look, you were talking about

2257
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:43,440
a 1,200 square footprint, a 1,400, a

2258
01:23:43,440 --> 01:23:46,480
1,600." Dude, that's You don't

2259
01:23:46,480 --> 01:23:48,320
understand how big that is. That's too

2260
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:50,560
big of a footprint. I think everybody in

2261
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:52,800
this commission would say, "Hey, we just

2262
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:55,040
sort of like that's what Holiday did. We

2263
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:56,560
because I can see you going like I don't

2264
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:58,159
know if you guys understand how big that

2265
01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:01,520
is and we probably are not. So I think

2266
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,840
everybody here would just say hey look

2267
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,480
>> we came back to a max of 1200 which is

2268
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:06,960
what we had

2269
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:08,719
>> in the original was it?

2270
01:24:08,719 --> 01:24:12,080
>> No the original was 1,200 living space

2271
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:13,600
>> and now we're talking about footprint.

2272
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:15,040
So his would have been 600. Yeah. His

2273
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,440
would have been a 600 foot garage to

2274
01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:20,560
that 1200 foot living space like a 600

2275
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:23,600
foot garage. We're now

2276
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,159
>> no because that footprint is going to be

2277
01:24:26,159 --> 01:24:28,159
the footprint is typically going to be

2278
01:24:28,159 --> 01:24:30,000
in most of these ADUs or a lot of them a

2279
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:33,440
garage with a second story ADU.

2280
01:24:33,440 --> 01:24:35,199
>> Right. But in the original where it says

2281
01:24:35,199 --> 01:24:36,880
1,200 square feet of living space

2282
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:38,880
there's no definition of the garage.

2283
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,600
>> No there's not. And so it may that

2284
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:43,840
probably is a little smaller. Michelle,

2285
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:46,080
that probably is smaller than than what

2286
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,320
we're doing. 1,200, but we're talking

2287
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:50,239
about the 1,200 footprint, which would

2288
01:24:50,239 --> 01:24:51,760
include the garage.

2289
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:53,600
>> It would include whatever.

2290
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:55,679
>> So, we're not that far off.

2291
01:24:55,679 --> 01:24:56,000
>> No,

2292
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:56,960
>> that's probably true.

2293
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:59,920
>> No, like unless somebody's ADU did not

2294
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:02,560
have a a garage

2295
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:03,040
>> and and

2296
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:04,320
>> which there might be some that don't.

2297
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:04,639
Yeah,

2298
01:25:04,639 --> 01:25:05,760
>> there might be. Just depends.

2299
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:07,920
>> And again, we're combining that

2300
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:12,080
footprint with the lot percentage.

2301
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:14,639
>> True. Because yes. Yes, you're right.

2302
01:25:14,639 --> 01:25:16,400
Yeah. So, if you had a garage that would

2303
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:18,080
it would even Okay, good. All right,

2304
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:19,920
that makes sense. Okay, then then I'm

2305
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:21,840
fine. And and Jeff's moving. You know,

2306
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:24,400
Jeff's really good at hurrying me along.

2307
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:25,920
>> Actually, he's good at reminding me that

2308
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,040
actually hurry.

2309
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:29,520
>> Um Okay. Do uh

2310
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:30,719
>> now on the height.

2311
01:25:30,719 --> 01:25:32,080
>> Yeah. Yeah. Do do we want to do anything

2312
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:33,360
with the height, right? Because it can

2313
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:35,760
go as like currently. So, how high can

2314
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:37,040
an ADU go?

2315
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:39,120
>> So, currently accessory buildings can go

2316
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:41,120
20 feet tall if they meet the setbacks.

2317
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:42,639
If they go farther away from the

2318
01:25:42,639 --> 01:25:44,000
setback, they can get up to 30 feet

2319
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:44,560
tall.

2320
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,040
>> Okay. Do we want ADUs to ever be 30 feet

2321
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:47,760
tall?

2322
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:50,560
>> Do we want to cap ADUs at 20?

2323
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:52,480
>> I mean, that would be like, if you think

2324
01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:54,800
about it, that would be

2325
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:57,760
>> 30 feet away from the side

2326
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:00,880
and something like that as well. 30 feet

2327
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:02,239
from the rear. I mean, it's like the

2328
01:26:02,239 --> 01:26:03,679
same location as a primary dwelling,

2329
01:26:03,679 --> 01:26:04,800
which is already

2330
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:06,800
>> time you go that high. Yeah. But

2331
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:08,639
>> you're very far away from the property

2332
01:26:08,639 --> 01:26:09,199
line.

2333
01:26:09,199 --> 01:26:12,594
>> Okay. Okay. For Oh, guess

2334
01:26:12,594 --> 01:26:13,280
[laughter]

2335
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:13,679
>> that

2336
01:26:13,679 --> 01:26:16,400
>> for hypothetically,

2337
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:19,679
>> can we like cap it at 25 ft?

2338
01:26:19,679 --> 01:26:20,080
>> Andy,

2339
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:21,920
>> that is an option for sure. Yeah,

2340
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,000
>> Andy.

2341
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:25,360
>> You You just yell from back there,

2342
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,320
brother. [laughter]

2343
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:31,280
>> I I know she's doing minutes. Um, so so

2344
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,360
this is probably the number one thing

2345
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:35,360
that that I would learn from my

2346
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:36,639
building.

2347
01:26:36,639 --> 01:26:41,679
So, um, ours is 26 and 1/2 ft tall. Um,

2348
01:26:41,679 --> 01:26:44,000
and I've looked at how it impacts the

2349
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:47,199
neighbors, etc. And, and my problem is I

2350
01:26:47,199 --> 01:26:48,960
had this dream of having, and I still

2351
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:50,960
have it of having a little mini Winnie

2352
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:52,480
type thing, and I wanted a garage tall

2353
01:26:52,480 --> 01:26:54,880
enough I could fit it in. Um, so I went

2354
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:59,920
a couple feet taller. But, uh, the the difference between the 24 and the 26

2355
01:26:59,920 --> 01:27:04,719
and a half is is big. And to me, um, you

2356
01:27:04,719 --> 01:27:07,360
know, I think, uh, that that you really

2357
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:10,480
ought to cap this out at 24. That's as

2358
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:13,760
tall as as any of these either accessory

2359
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:16,639
structures or, uh, ADUs. And I'm looking

2360
01:27:16,639 --> 01:27:18,480
at DI and saying, "Hey, I have a 26 and

2361
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:20,719
a half, but I think it's too tall for my

2362
01:27:20,719 --> 01:27:23,040
lot. I think it's too tall for, you

2363
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:24,960
know, if I had it to do over again, I

2364
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:26,320
would I would go a little shorter. I've

2365
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:28,480
looked at it and and and I definitely

2366
01:27:28,480 --> 01:27:30,320
don't think you want them to go 30."

2367
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:33,280
Yeah. 25 foot cap is is reasonable.

2368
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:34,880
Anything more than that starts to become

2369
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:38,320
very imposing on on the neighbors. Um

2370
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:39,199
and uh

2371
01:27:39,199 --> 01:27:40,719
>> even if it's 30 ft off, you're still

2372
01:27:40,719 --> 01:27:42,239
blocking someone's view on a quarter

2373
01:27:42,239 --> 01:27:42,719
inch.

2374
01:27:42,719 --> 01:27:44,960
>> I Yeah, I would say 20 ft.

2375
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,760
>> I think I'd say 20. So

2376
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:49,440
>> 20's 20 is a little impractical to me

2377
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:51,679
because you can't do two stories in 20.

2378
01:27:51,679 --> 01:27:53,040
You can't get a you can't get a peaked

2379
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:55,840
roof in 20. So if you have garage plus,

2380
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:58,080
you can't get it in 20. So maybe so

2381
01:27:58,080 --> 01:27:59,440
you're going to be more like by the time

2382
01:27:59,440 --> 01:28:01,600
you get a a peak roof, I think you're

2383
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:03,520
going to be 25 24 25

2384
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:05,440
>> 24, you know, maybe 24.

2385
01:28:05,440 --> 01:28:07,679
>> So one thing I'll say is the only one

2386
01:28:07,679 --> 01:28:10,560
issue with just putting a limit at 25 is

2387
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:12,239
if someone currently has a 30 foot

2388
01:28:12,239 --> 01:28:13,600
accessory building and now they want to

2389
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,159
put an ADU in it, they have to build a

2390
01:28:16,159 --> 01:28:16,960
new building.

2391
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:17,280
>> Yep.

2392
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:19,679
>> No, no, we'll get to that.

2393
01:28:19,679 --> 01:28:22,400
>> We'll get to I mean maybe but Okay,

2394
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:24,560
we'll get to that and let's go we'll go

2395
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,400
quickly. Okay. So, the number is the

2396
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:27,040
number is what?

2397
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:28,400
>> 25.

2398
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:30,159
>> Okay.

2399
01:28:30,159 --> 01:28:32,480
>> And and we'll support we'll revisit

2400
01:28:32,480 --> 01:28:34,080
because there is Okay. Let's go quickly.

2401
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:35,360
And the last thing is we can do quickly.

2402
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:36,320
There's two left.

2403
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:36,800
>> Okay.

2404
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:42,950
Design standards. Um

2405
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:44,960
again, Holiday had some design standards

2406
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:47,280
with respect and I think it's a good

2407
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:48,480
idea, right? Because we've talked about

2408
01:28:48,480 --> 01:28:51,440
dark skies and and indirect lighting and

2409
01:28:51,440 --> 01:28:52,320
you know to Andy's

2410
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:53,679
>> we've already put that all in ordinance

2411
01:28:53,679 --> 01:28:54,639
already. Okay.

2412
01:28:54,639 --> 01:28:56,960
>> I think this is really I think we can

2413
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:57,920
just

2414
01:28:57,920 --> 01:28:59,520
>> So bas basically then can we just have

2415
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,880
under does does the current lighting

2416
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:05,360
restrictions that we have Kaden apply to

2417
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:07,600
an ADU?

2418
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,199
>> I would say they would. Yes.

2419
01:29:09,199 --> 01:29:10,480
>> Yeah. I would I would agree.

2420
01:29:10,480 --> 01:29:11,199
>> Okay.

2421
01:29:11,199 --> 01:29:12,719
>> So then then all right we already have

2422
01:29:12,719 --> 01:29:15,199
all that then. Um, so last thing on

2423
01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:18,320
there is do do let's see any interest in

2424
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:21,840
having a landscaping

2425
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,120
requirement for an ADU to write a buffer

2426
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,510
to neighboring properties

2427
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,159
» or are we micromanaging at that point

2428
01:29:32,159 --> 01:29:34,080
>> a landscaping requirement?

2429
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:36,719
>> We're requiring larger setbacks than

2430
01:29:36,719 --> 01:29:37,679
holiday does.

2431
01:29:37,679 --> 01:29:39,199
>> Yeah.

2432
01:29:39,199 --> 01:29:41,040
>> So so so we can get rid of design

2433
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:44,080
standards. Okay. But what about B that

2434
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:46,800
you can't open into your setback?

2435
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:48,320
>> Well, but you know, but but that's not a

2436
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:49,840
big deal because again, we've got much

2437
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:51,520
larger setbacks

2438
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:52,239
>> then. I think

2439
01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:53,840
>> I think I think that that's fine.

2440
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:55,840
>> So, I think we're can probably nyx the

2441
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:57,440
entire design standard. Okay. Okay.

2442
01:29:57,440 --> 01:29:59,040
>> This last one's important. It kind of

2443
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:02,000
just is a follow on to what um Kaden

2444
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:03,760
just mentioned and I thought this was

2445
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:04,960
really interesting. They put in here

2446
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:06,719
conversion of existing accessory

2447
01:30:06,719 --> 01:30:08,719
buildings because Kaden this is going to

2448
01:30:08,719 --> 01:30:09,760
happen, right?

2449
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:12,159
>> I mean, okay. Now, for example, our good

2450
01:30:12,159 --> 01:30:14,960
friend Andy here. Woohoo. Okay. You've

2451
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:17,600
got your, you know, you've got your um

2452
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:20,000
you just passed this ADU ordinance and I

2453
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:23,040
want to now come and get my my uh garage

2454
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:25,360
licensed as an ADU.

2455
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,000
So, um what we say here is that okay,

2456
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:29,760
conversion of existing accessory

2457
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:31,600
buildings, including non-conforming

2458
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:33,600
structures, which for examples Andy

2459
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,320
might be if he's built if he has a

2460
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:37,840
pre-existing building, a non-conforming

2461
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,440
building inside the setback,

2462
01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:41,280
>> right? So, he's got to meet all design

2463
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:43,440
standards. Structures that do not

2464
01:30:43,440 --> 01:30:45,440
conform to the building footprint sizes

2465
01:30:45,440 --> 01:30:47,679
must apply for a conditional use permit.

2466
01:30:47,679 --> 01:30:48,880
And I don't know if that would be I

2467
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:49,760
don't know if we want him to have a

2468
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:51,600
conditional use permit or an exception.

2469
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:53,679
I don't know what the right verbiage is

2470
01:30:53,679 --> 01:30:56,719
in that context, but so there is a

2471
01:30:56,719 --> 01:31:00,639
process where an ex because I know this

2472
01:31:00,639 --> 01:31:02,239
happened, right? I have like Enlo's,

2473
01:31:02,239 --> 01:31:03,920
right? You know, Andy and our friend

2474
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:06,960
Enlos. I mean, they they built a a two

2475
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:08,960
or I guess that's a two-car garage, you

2476
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:11,360
know, deep one. It's all plumbed. It's

2477
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,960
all framed. It's all wired for an ADU,

2478
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:18,560
but it's detached. So, you know, but but

2479
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:21,920
they're just waiting. Problem is, um I

2480
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:22,960
don't know what the height on that thing

2481
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:29,120
is, but I know that it's I mean, it's it's on the side. It it it's it's

2482
01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:31,440
inside the setback on the Rosses and on

2483
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:33,360
the Romney's behind them. neither of

2484
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:35,280
them who were happy with that, you know,

2485
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,840
when it went in, but but it went in as

2486
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:39,920
an accessory building, so they could do

2487
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,239
it. The problem is I don't know that

2488
01:31:42,239 --> 01:31:44,320
those people just get necessarily get a

2489
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:45,600
freebie

2490
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:49,199
>> when Yeah. You know, it doesn't it

2491
01:31:49,199 --> 01:31:50,639
doesn't automatically grandfather in.

2492
01:31:50,639 --> 01:31:53,040
So, what this says is conversion of

2493
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:56,000
existing structures like like basically

2494
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,560
if you've got a non-conforming structure

2495
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:01,280
and you want to license it as an ADU,

2496
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:02,800
you're going to have to come in on a

2497
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:05,920
case-byase basis. And I hate creating

2498
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:09,040
work for planning commission, but but

2499
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:10,960
there's some kind of process where I

2500
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:12,880
don't know that it's automatic.

2501
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:13,600
>> I agree.

2502
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:16,639
>> So, that's what the that's what the

2503
01:32:16,639 --> 01:32:18,239
purpose of conversion of existing

2504
01:32:18,239 --> 01:32:21,600
accessory buildings is. But and so and

2505
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,639
so it just is has to come before the has

2506
01:32:24,639 --> 01:32:25,840
to come

2507
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:26,960
>> while we're messing around here. Can you

2508
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:28,719
throw those pictures up that I texted

2509
01:32:28,719 --> 01:32:30,480
you?

2510
01:32:30,480 --> 01:32:32,320
>> So you're saying that type of specific

2511
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:33,840
date and once this is approved somebody

2512
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:35,840
can't go do an accessorary building and

2513
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:40,960
then so so take a look at this and this is just just cautionary tales,

2514
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:41,840
right?

2515
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:43,280
>> This is the reason that this stuff is

2516
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:46,000
important because like okay this

2517
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,600
building is like like this look I mean

2518
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:51,760
You can sort of see to the right. Like

2519
01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:53,120
this is when you're going down the

2520
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:55,040
Alpine Highway just coming out of

2521
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:56,480
Highland into American Fork.

2522
01:32:56,480 --> 01:32:57,040
>> Oh my gosh.

2523
01:32:57,040 --> 01:32:59,840
>> It's like how [sighs] the hell Yeah.

2524
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:02,960
>> did somebody build that on that piece of

2525
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:04,400
property?

2526
01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:06,239
>> And and I mean their neighbor just to

2527
01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:07,840
the south. I mean they got to be the

2528
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:09,679
Hatfields and McCoys, right?

2529
01:33:09,679 --> 01:33:10,719
>> Yeah.

2530
01:33:10,719 --> 01:33:12,960
>> See the fence on the other side?

2531
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:15,679
>> It is right. I mean look at that thing.

2532
01:33:15,679 --> 01:33:17,440
It's a really nice neighborhood.

2533
01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:19,199
>> Oh my good. I mean, what they did is

2534
01:33:19,199 --> 01:33:20,639
unbelievable. So, all right. So, go to

2535
01:33:20,639 --> 01:33:23,040
the third one that I sent you, Kaden.

2536
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:24,560
>> Um, yeah. So, that's the right that

2537
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:26,159
that's this is that's B this one's

2538
01:33:26,159 --> 01:33:27,600
basically Kitty Corner, northeast from

2539
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:29,360
the one I just showed you, right? Like

2540
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:31,840
just south of this is the golf course,

2541
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:32,800
right?

2542
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:36,320
>> And like like who how could they build

2543
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:39,199
that thing? So, and and then okay, then

2544
01:33:39,199 --> 01:33:40,960
here's the last one, right? And this is

2545
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:42,719
not necessarily what's before us, but

2546
01:33:42,719 --> 01:33:44,080
I'm just saying that the next thing I

2547
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:46,639
think we need to tackle is

2548
01:33:46,639 --> 01:33:50,000
um like like boy, do our ordinances

2549
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:52,239
allow something like this?

2550
01:33:52,239 --> 01:33:52,639
>> No.

2551
01:33:52,639 --> 01:33:54,800
>> And Okay, good. [laughter] Good. And

2552
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:58,639
then and then do they allow like like okay look look at this one. This

2553
01:33:58,639 --> 01:34:01,520
person basically said like like hey this

2554
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,639
is a remodel here and so because look we

2555
01:34:04,639 --> 01:34:06,639
attached it to our house,

2556
01:34:06,639 --> 01:34:07,600
>> right?

2557
01:34:07,600 --> 01:34:09,199
>> Could this happen in Alpine?

2558
01:34:09,199 --> 01:34:11,040
>> No. Okay, great. Okay,

2559
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:12,400
>> we'll actually get into something

2560
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:13,920
similar to this. I actually have the

2561
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:15,440
same exact image

2562
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:16,960
>> for our next code. [laughter]

2563
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,600
>> Okay, good. So, I just wanted to make

2564
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:20,800
sure, hey, what we're doing is like,

2565
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:22,400
look, there's some real shizzy stuff

2566
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:24,960
that happens out there and and I hoping

2567
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:26,239
to address it. Okay, get rid of that. We

2568
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:26,880
can get rid of that then.

2569
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:28,480
>> From what I understand, this this caused

2570
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:30,480
Highland to change their ordinance, but

2571
01:34:30,480 --> 01:34:31,840
>> yeah, I think so. Okay.

2572
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:34,880
>> Okay. So, so if we like this language of

2573
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,040
conversion of existing accessory

2574
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:38,320
buildings,

2575
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:44,239
>> um Kate and Jason, do you guys see like an issue with that or what issues

2576
01:34:44,239 --> 01:34:46,159
do you see with because I think we've

2577
01:34:46,159 --> 01:34:48,000
got to have some kind of language about

2578
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,040
these what are going to be retroactive

2579
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:54,719
applications for ADUs for existing

2580
01:34:54,719 --> 01:34:56,960
buildings like Andes

2581
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:03,280
and you know they're not you know they may or may not like like if they

2582
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:06,560
fit our ADU, well, you can probably just

2583
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,239
Yeah, okay. You're good to go. You fit

2584
01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:10,480
the ordinance. But if they don't,

2585
01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:13,440
>> I mean, it's fair that there's a process

2586
01:35:13,440 --> 01:35:15,840
for them to come apply for either a

2587
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:18,800
conditional use permit or

2588
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:20,000
>> an exception. I don't know what it would

2589
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:20,719
be.

2590
01:35:20,719 --> 01:35:22,719
>> Exception, right?

2591
01:35:22,719 --> 01:35:23,840
>> Yeah, I don't think it' be a conditional

2592
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:24,880
use. I think it probably be an

2593
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:26,800
exception. They they may maybe use those

2594
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:28,080
terms differently,

2595
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:29,120
>> but

2596
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:30,800
>> um but but but I think our but I think

2597
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:32,960
ours needed something like this.

2598
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:36,320
>> So you're just saying replace. So any

2599
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:38,639
conversion of an existing building,

2600
01:35:38,639 --> 01:35:42,639
accessory building that doesn't meet the

2601
01:35:42,639 --> 01:35:45,600
setbacks and height and the footprint

2602
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:48,239
and the percentage

2603
01:35:48,239 --> 01:35:49,280
>> envelope.

2604
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:49,760
>> Yeah.

2605
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:50,480
>> And the envelope

2606
01:35:50,480 --> 01:35:51,760
>> and then I think it could come

2607
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:54,320
>> has to come Yeah. for planning

2608
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:55,360
commission approval.

2609
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:56,480
>> Yeah. Because then we're gonna have to

2610
01:35:56,480 --> 01:35:57,520
look and say, "Okay, well, you know

2611
01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:58,800
what? Maybe there's an issue where you

2612
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:00,080
know what, like you got to let your

2613
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:04,000
neighbors know or um hey, we want to see

2614
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:06,400
the lots around you. What is like case

2615
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:08,159
byase basis?" Right.

2616
01:36:08,159 --> 01:36:08,800
>> Yeah.

2617
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:12,480
>> Is is allowing you to convert that

2618
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:15,520
accessory dwelling, that garage into an

2619
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:17,040
ADU,

2620
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:20,400
going to put a hardship on your

2621
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:22,239
neighbors? I mean, the building's

2622
01:36:22,239 --> 01:36:23,040
already there.

2623
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:27,280
>> The building is already there. Yeah. So, we'll have to say, well, but what

2624
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,120
Okay, but but if now somebody's living

2625
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:31,280
in that, do do you have off- streetet

2626
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:32,400
parking? Do you have enough?

2627
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:32,880
>> Yeah.

2628
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:34,400
>> How many I mean, maybe there's

2629
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:36,480
limitations we can put on them, but I'm

2630
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:37,360
just saying

2631
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:39,040
>> there there there's going to have to be

2632
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:42,400
a method for existing

2633
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:47,040
nonconforming structures to apply to be

2634
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:49,199
licensed as an ADU. Right now it just

2635
01:36:49,199 --> 01:36:51,679
seems like it's a little handwaving.

2636
01:36:51,679 --> 01:36:54,239
Okay. Well, you're not conforming, so

2637
01:36:54,239 --> 01:36:55,360
you're gonna have to come and make your

2638
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:55,600
case.

2639
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:57,280
>> Yeah. But but you know, I I don't I

2640
01:36:57,280 --> 01:36:58,320
mean, I don't think I don't think

2641
01:36:58,320 --> 01:36:59,600
somebody the city is going to want to

2642
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:00,639
have to deal with that.

2643
01:37:00,639 --> 01:37:01,040
>> Yeah.

2644
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,440
>> I mean, so there's a process in Holland.

2645
01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:05,600
It seems to me like it's reasonable to

2646
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:07,199
have a process.

2647
01:37:07,199 --> 01:37:07,920
>> I mean,

2648
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,000
>> usually when we have a exception or

2649
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:12,239
conditional use thing, we'll have a

2650
01:37:12,239 --> 01:37:13,840
criteria.

2651
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:15,360
>> And that's what I'm that's what I'm

2652
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:17,040
that's the point I'm kind of making.

2653
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:18,719
Yeah, got to have it somewhat objective

2654
01:37:18,719 --> 01:37:20,960
and then meeting the neighbors come and

2655
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:21,600
complain.

2656
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:23,600
>> I agree. So, okay,

2657
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:25,840
>> process. Are we trying to address those

2658
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:28,400
issues right now or not?

2659
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:30,320
>> Well, this is something that needs I

2660
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:31,760
think needs because because we're on it.

2661
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,239
We're we're the clock's ticking on

2662
01:37:34,239 --> 01:37:35,920
>> this ADU, right? Yeah.

2663
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:37,920
>> And and and it needs to come back to our

2664
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:39,119
next meeting.

2665
01:37:39,119 --> 01:37:42,159
>> What's the criteria? I don't know.

2666
01:37:42,159 --> 01:37:43,119
>> They can figure it out.

2667
01:37:43,119 --> 01:37:44,320
>> That's something that we would have to

2668
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:45,920
figure out if we want to go that route.

2669
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:49,199
I mean, I think staff would obviously

2670
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:51,280
lean towards no conditional use permits

2671
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:52,080
because it's just

2672
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:52,639
>> I agree

2673
01:37:52,639 --> 01:37:55,199
>> more more work and with already limited

2674
01:37:55,199 --> 01:37:57,280
staff and so

2675
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,119
>> yeah or or or something. I mean I think

2676
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:00,880
our original thought was either meet the

2677
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:03,119
ADU code or or

2678
01:38:03,119 --> 01:38:04,400
>> you can't do an ADU

2679
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:05,280
>> another agenda.

2680
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:07,520
>> So

2681
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:08,960
>> yeah, so if we did go that route, we

2682
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:10,159
would have to really come up with good

2683
01:38:10,159 --> 01:38:12,239
criteria for that. Um

2684
01:38:12,239 --> 01:38:13,840
>> Okay. But but I don't like

2685
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:14,400
>> Yeah.

2686
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:16,320
>> Okay. Okay. But I just I mean, all

2687
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:17,840
right, but you got a lot of folks going

2688
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:19,360
to be sitting out there like, look,

2689
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:22,800
you're going to get a lot of hate mail

2690
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:23,600
from

2691
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:24,000
>> that was

2692
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:25,119
>> I'm not saying I'm just going to say the

2693
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:26,560
Andy Spencers of the world. I'm not

2694
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:28,960
saying Andy Spencer, but you got people

2695
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:31,520
built these things. Well, we thought we

2696
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:36,239
built them with what we thought were the applicable setbacks, right?

2697
01:38:36,239 --> 01:38:37,760
>> Yeah. But we don't fit the ones that

2698
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:39,840
you've made for ADUs, but

2699
01:38:39,840 --> 01:38:42,000
>> but damn it, I want I want a license up

2700
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:44,000
as an ADU. If you just tell them,

2701
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:46,080
"Sorry, Charlie.

2702
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:47,600
>> If you want to take that heat, fine. I'm

2703
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:48,800
fine never seeing it."

2704
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:50,400
>> That's part of the motivation of trying

2705
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:52,239
to match current accessory building

2706
01:38:52,239 --> 01:38:54,239
requirements because if they went

2707
01:38:54,239 --> 01:38:55,520
through the proper process, their

2708
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:57,280
building should already meet those

2709
01:38:57,280 --> 01:38:58,560
requirements

2710
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:01,360
>> and all they're doing is adding in the

2711
01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:01,920
living space.

2712
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:03,920
>> I guess they would because because like

2713
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:05,840
Andy's for example, B would fit the

2714
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:06,960
current

2715
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:07,520
>> set back.

2716
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:09,040
>> Yeah. I got a I got a permit in the

2717
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:10,239
city. I build it with a permit.

2718
01:39:10,239 --> 01:39:13,280
Everything met code. But I I guess I was

2719
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:14,880
going to speak up in favor of I think

2720
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:16,159
there should be a process if you're

2721
01:39:16,159 --> 01:39:17,520
going to make these more restrictive.

2722
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:18,719
And I think that what you're trying to

2723
01:39:18,719 --> 01:39:21,199
do is be very careful so that you don't

2724
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:23,360
open Pandora's box, right? An experience

2725
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:25,679
might show that hey, we can massage most

2726
01:39:25,679 --> 01:39:27,760
codes massage over time and you go,

2727
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:28,960
okay, this wouldn't be too bad. We've

2728
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:31,119
got this experience or whatever. But I

2729
01:39:31,119 --> 01:39:33,040
do think it's appropriate that uh there

2730
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:37,199
is an ex an exception process um whereby

2731
01:39:37,199 --> 01:39:38,880
you can come in and and I realize that

2732
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:41,280
puts an onus on uh the staff to come up

2733
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:43,040
with some criteria but I think when

2734
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:44,239
you're evaluating that what you're

2735
01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:45,679
really trying to say is

2736
01:39:45,679 --> 01:39:49,600
>> okay under these conditions uh you know

2737
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:51,760
this could be acceptable because this

2738
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:54,239
clearly meets the intent that we define

2739
01:39:54,239 --> 01:39:56,639
this code you know so still meet that

2740
01:39:56,639 --> 01:39:58,480
intent but I I think there needs to be a

2741
01:39:58,480 --> 01:40:00,400
process but I'm not just speaking up cuz

2742
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:02,239
I have that one. Yeah. I say I think

2743
01:40:02,239 --> 01:40:02,960
Ellen's right.

2744
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:04,480
>> So, for the sake of time, here's what I

2745
01:40:04,480 --> 01:40:05,920
would just say. We'll probably include

2746
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:07,920
that in the motion.

2747
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:11,360
>> Um, and then just say, look, you know,

2748
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:14,800
ask staff to just like give that some

2749
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:16,000
thought because there's there's things

2750
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:17,440
that happen from your side that we just

2751
01:40:17,440 --> 01:40:19,840
don't understand, right? But but if

2752
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:21,040
you're say, you know, but but if you

2753
01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:22,560
come back to us like, you know, in two

2754
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:28,880
weeks and say, "Hey, this is this this is a solution to a problem that

2755
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:30,960
doesn't and won't exist, and we

2756
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:32,960
recommend that that, you know, we don't

2757
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:35,440
need this this in there." Okay. Or you

2758
01:40:35,440 --> 01:40:37,119
look at say, you know, okay, yeah, we

2759
01:40:37,119 --> 01:40:38,639
listened to, we look, we read that, we

2760
01:40:38,639 --> 01:40:41,280
listen, Andy, we do have some things out

2761
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:42,719
there. Here's what we would recommend,

2762
01:40:42,719 --> 01:40:44,080
right? And not a conditional use permit.

2763
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:45,760
and it's a pain in the butt, but maybe

2764
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:48,000
an exception process, but perhaps we

2765
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:50,000
just leave that like give that some

2766
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:53,280
thought and and and and give us a

2767
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:56,239
proposal in a couple of weeks. Okay,

2768
01:40:56,239 --> 01:40:58,320
that's the end of it. And so with that,

2769
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:00,080
unless there's any further discussion.

2770
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:01,840
Oh, and I don't you know what? I don't

2771
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:03,440
there was some little tag along there. I

2772
01:41:03,440 --> 01:41:06,080
don't even understand this one. E, so

2773
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:08,000
forget it. That would that was part of

2774
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:08,719
conversion.

2775
01:41:08,719 --> 01:41:09,600
>> E.

2776
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:14,080
>> Me either. Um well I guess that's yeah

2777
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:17,760
anyway I don't either. So um conversion

2778
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:19,920
of existing accessory buildings will a

2779
01:41:19,920 --> 01:41:22,000
little little bit tbd based on staff

2780
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:24,480
recommendations uh at our next meeting.

2781
01:41:24,480 --> 01:41:27,040
Sure. So that's it for that and any

2782
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:28,639
further discussion or we can take a

2783
01:41:28,639 --> 01:41:35,430
motion.

2784
01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:37,199
» I think we probably discussed it out

2785
01:41:37,199 --> 01:41:38,800
discussed it to death. What do you think

2786
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,280
Troy? I think we've thoroughly went over

2787
01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:44,159
it.

2788
01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:46,239
>> John's got copious.

2789
01:41:46,239 --> 01:41:47,119
>> Okay.

2790
01:41:47,119 --> 01:41:49,600
>> I'll give it a shot.

2791
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:57,430
>> Okay. Can you bring up a sample motion?

2792
01:41:57,440 --> 01:42:00,320
» So, we're going to table this

2793
01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:04,950
re.

2794
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:06,480
» Yeah.

2795
01:42:06,480 --> 01:42:09,760
Are we supposed to have a motion here?

2796
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:11,840
I I I don't I don't I don't think

2797
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:16,790
there's a motion here.

2798
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:18,400
» Well, I think Yeah. Wouldn't it be a

2799
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:19,920
motion to table

2800
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:21,040
>> public hearing? We have to have a

2801
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:21,760
motion.

2802
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:25,280
>> Yeah. So, there it's right there.

2803
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:26,000
>> Okay. I

2804
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:28,080
>> I think I'm realizing that for some

2805
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:29,679
reason we don't have a table for this

2806
01:42:29,679 --> 01:42:30,239
item.

2807
01:42:30,239 --> 01:42:30,719
>> No.

2808
01:42:30,719 --> 01:42:32,560
>> So, here's here's the table for the next

2809
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:34,880
item. You want to just modify it? Yeah.

2810
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:36,320
>> So, you just didn't put it on there.

2811
01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:37,600
>> Yeah. I think I just missed putting it

2812
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:40,320
in there. Sorry about that.

2813
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:41,280
>> Okay.

2814
01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:43,840
I move to table the proposed

2815
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:45,679
amendments to the development code for

2816
01:42:45,679 --> 01:42:49,600
the accessory uh dwelling units

2817
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:52,320
um for staff to rework some of the

2818
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:55,440
language to include

2819
01:42:55,440 --> 01:43:00,400
uh language from the holiday ordinance.

2820
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:02,239
specifically

2821
01:43:02,239 --> 01:43:05,600
uh to include a purpose statement

2822
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:08,080
similar to the holiday state uh

2823
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:09,760
ordinance

2824
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:13,760
uh add a minimum rental term of 90 days.

2825
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:16,560
Add language to require

2826
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:18,400
>> Can you hear me?

2827
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:21,280
>> I just uh turned on my microphone. Okay,

2828
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:26,870
Marlo, did you get that?

2829
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:28,159
» She not there.

2830
01:43:28,159 --> 01:43:30,159
>> Yes, I'm here. Yeah. Did Did you catch

2831
01:43:30,159 --> 01:43:32,480
the beginning of John's motion?

2832
01:43:32,480 --> 01:43:35,760
>> Um, yes. I I'll go back over it though

2833
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:37,520
on the recording to get it right.

2834
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:38,960
>> I'm just want to make sure you you were

2835
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:40,880
able to record it properly because my my

2836
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:43,440
microphone was off.

2837
01:43:43,440 --> 01:43:44,320
>> Yes. Um,

2838
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:45,920
>> should I start over?

2839
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:48,000
>> No. I have John McCain move to table the

2840
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:50,239
detached accessory dwelling unit of the

2841
01:43:50,239 --> 01:43:53,040
development code as proposed with

2842
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:55,280
reworking the language to include

2843
01:43:55,280 --> 01:43:58,080
language from Holiday City. And then

2844
01:43:58,080 --> 01:44:01,199
you're wanting to put in the um

2845
01:44:01,199 --> 01:44:03,840
>> coverage and purpose

2846
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:05,440
uh rent. Are we doing the rental

2847
01:44:05,440 --> 01:44:06,320
restriction?

2848
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:07,040
>> Yeah, we're

2849
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:10,159
>> occupancy footprint all of those four.

2850
01:44:10,159 --> 01:44:12,159
>> Um

2851
01:44:12,159 --> 01:44:13,840
>> okay. Yeah. Yeah. Go make the motion

2852
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:15,199
now, John.

2853
01:44:15,199 --> 01:44:17,840
>> Okay. Uh I haven't you're up to speed

2854
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:19,920
with me now, so I'll just keep continue.

2855
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:22,480
Uh add language to require a rental

2856
01:44:22,480 --> 01:44:30,629
license as required with current um

2857
01:44:30,639 --> 01:44:31,119
in

2858
01:44:31,119 --> 01:44:33,760
>> interior

2859
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:34,480
>> dwelling units.

2860
01:44:34,480 --> 01:44:37,600
>> Internal uh dwelling units.

2861
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:42,790
uh

2862
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:45,280
to incorporate the dwelling occupancy

2863
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:47,920
language from the Holiday City uh

2864
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:51,280
ordinances to include a footprint for

2865
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:55,040
lots of 0 to 10,000 square feet of a

2866
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:58,880
maximum footprint of 800 ft

2867
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:03,510
from 10,000 to 20,900

2868
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:08,400
uh square feet from 20,000 1 to 40,000

2869
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:11,280
square ft. 1,000

2870
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:14,239
square feet of footprint and above

2871
01:45:14,239 --> 01:45:15,840
40,000

2872
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:18,080
uh a 1,200

2873
01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:26,229
square footprint.

2874
01:45:26,239 --> 01:45:32,550
Then on the percent of of coverage

2875
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:36,639
» of lot coverage we want to modify the

2876
01:45:36,639 --> 01:45:39,600
language that the total allowable lot

2877
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:43,199
coverage for all permanent structures

2878
01:45:43,199 --> 01:45:47,119
uh adding permanent to that.

2879
01:45:47,119 --> 01:45:50,550
um

2880
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:52,639
and

2881
01:45:52,639 --> 01:45:54,480
delete

2882
01:45:54,480 --> 01:45:58,639
everything after the dwelling unit. So

2883
01:45:58,639 --> 01:46:00,719
you're we're not going to specify

2884
01:46:00,719 --> 01:46:03,280
excluding outdoor swimming pools, ponds,

2885
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:06,159
and art with artificial liners or other

2886
01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:08,159
water features. But we do want to

2887
01:46:08,159 --> 01:46:10,239
include is set forth on the following

2888
01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:12,719
chart expressed as a percentage of lot

2889
01:46:12,719 --> 01:46:15,600
size. And those percentages will be

2890
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:20,400
broken down into four uh bands of less

2891
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:24,960
than 10,000 square feet will be uh 35%

2892
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:28,000
coverage of all structures. Second band

2893
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:31,679
is from 10,01 to 20,000 and that will be

2894
01:46:31,679 --> 01:46:34,000
30 uh%

2895
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:36,000
coverage.

2896
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:39,840
The third band will be from 20,01 to

2897
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:43,040
40,000 square feet and that percentage

2898
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:46,000
will be 25%

2899
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:49,199
and then from 40

2900
01:46:49,199 --> 01:46:53,280
uh,000 and beyond the occupancy or the

2901
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:56,719
percentage coverage will be 22%.

2902
01:46:56,719 --> 01:46:59,440
We will delete the section from the

2903
01:46:59,440 --> 01:47:02,639
holiday language that is falls under

2904
01:47:02,639 --> 01:47:05,840
design standards entirely.

2905
01:47:05,840 --> 01:47:08,639
We will incorporate the conversion of

2906
01:47:08,639 --> 01:47:12,000
accessory uh buildings

2907
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:13,760
um

2908
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:19,440
to include a process and criteria for

2909
01:47:19,440 --> 01:47:22,320
granting exceptions andor conditional

2910
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:26,960
uses that staff will alpine staff will

2911
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:29,600
come up with.

2912
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:32,400
>> And what about setback and height?

2913
01:47:32,400 --> 01:47:38,629
>> Oh, skip that. Sorry.

2914
01:47:38,639 --> 01:47:42,000
um sections between the two tables

2915
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:46,889
entitled setbacks will leave as written.

2916
01:47:46,889 --> 01:47:47,760
[clears throat]

2917
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:50,960
The height we're going to modify to 25

2918
01:47:50,960 --> 01:47:57,990
ft is the maximum height of an ADU

2919
01:47:58,000 --> 01:47:59,840
and that should do it.

2920
01:47:59,840 --> 01:48:01,520
>> Did you want to change it?

2921
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:04,639
>> Minimum square feet to 300. Oh, that's

2922
01:48:04,639 --> 01:48:04,960
right.

2923
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:07,760
>> Match. Yes, I had it written here. I

2924
01:48:07,760 --> 01:48:09,760
couldn't remember what it represented.

2925
01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:12,159
Okay. So, when we're talking about the

2926
01:48:12,159 --> 01:48:15,280
maximum uh footprint

2927
01:48:15,280 --> 01:48:16,560
>> minimum

2928
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:20,320
>> the table that discusses the footprint,

2929
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:22,639
we are also going to reference that the

2930
01:48:22,639 --> 01:48:25,679
minimum for a footprint is 300 square

2931
01:48:25,679 --> 01:48:27,679
feet.

2932
01:48:27,679 --> 01:48:30,320
>> John, I have a question. I thought we

2933
01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:33,040
were using the same setbacks as a de as

2934
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:36,400
a de um an accessory dwelling because

2935
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:39,199
that would have been something that Andy

2936
01:48:39,199 --> 01:48:41,679
built his building on, not a single

2937
01:48:41,679 --> 01:48:43,600
family dwelling.

2938
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:46,239
>> Yeah, I don't think John referenced um

2939
01:48:46,239 --> 01:48:50,320
modifying the proposed

2940
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:53,440
um ADU ordinance

2941
01:48:53,440 --> 01:48:55,040
setback requirements. I think we're just

2942
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:56,880
going to adopt those adopt the city

2943
01:48:56,880 --> 01:48:58,719
>> the way the way it's written right now.

2944
01:48:58,719 --> 01:49:00,800
It'll be

2945
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:03,199
what we're what we're accepting is

2946
01:49:03,199 --> 01:49:05,360
Holiday's language that we're using the

2947
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:07,440
same setback provisions as the primary

2948
01:49:07,440 --> 01:49:08,719
single family dwelling.

2949
01:49:08,719 --> 01:49:10,639
>> Correct. For the zone on which it's

2950
01:49:10,639 --> 01:49:11,199
located.

2951
01:49:11,199 --> 01:49:12,320
>> Correct. Not.

2952
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:14,480
>> Yeah. But that that's not then Andy

2953
01:49:14,480 --> 01:49:16,320
wouldn't be able to or anybody that

2954
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:18,239
built an accessory building would not be

2955
01:49:18,239 --> 01:49:20,159
able to convert because they would have

2956
01:49:20,159 --> 01:49:20,960
to have

2957
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:21,520
>> Correct.

2958
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:22,800
>> which is a conditional use

2959
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:23,760
>> which is why they're going to have to

2960
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:25,280
come back through a conditional use

2961
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:27,920
application. the the exception. They'd

2962
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:30,880
have to come back for an exception.

2963
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:32,880
>> Okay. So, everybody going forward

2964
01:49:32,880 --> 01:49:33,440
building.

2965
01:49:33,440 --> 01:49:35,199
>> No, this is this is for people who have

2966
01:49:35,199 --> 01:49:36,800
an existing structure.

2967
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:38,159
>> Okay. Thank you.

2968
01:49:38,159 --> 01:49:40,639
>> If they're if if it's new construction,

2969
01:49:40,639 --> 01:49:42,719
they're just going to have to meet those

2970
01:49:42,719 --> 01:49:44,639
setback requirements as the primary

2971
01:49:44,639 --> 01:49:45,760
dwelling unit.

2972
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:48,080
>> Correct.

2973
01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:50,080
And and and then I think John, if you

2974
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:51,760
could just have your motion also clarify

2975
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:55,280
that these addition these

2976
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:57,360
additional items that you just went

2977
01:49:57,360 --> 01:50:01,119
through are to be added to to the extent

2978
01:50:01,119 --> 01:50:03,199
that they are, you know, that they are

2979
01:50:03,199 --> 01:50:05,119
consistent, right? They're to be added

2980
01:50:05,119 --> 01:50:06,800
to the

2981
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,360
>> existing language proposed.

2982
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:10,960
>> Yeah.

2983
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:13,280
So that

2984
01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:14,480
>> I just want to

2985
01:50:14,480 --> 01:50:16,000
>> that should have been part of my opening

2986
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:17,840
statement. If it wasn't, that's where it

2987
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:21,520
should be added that that these uh

2988
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:25,760
adjustments are to the proposed alpine

2989
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:30,470
uh ADU ordinance.

2990
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:32,800
Okay. Sorry. So just to make 100% clear,

2991
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:34,560
we don't want to do the setbacks of

2992
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:36,800
accessory buildings in Alpine. We want

2993
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:39,679
to do the setbacks of main structures in

2994
01:50:39,679 --> 01:50:40,320
Alpine.

2995
01:50:40,320 --> 01:50:42,880
>> Correct.

2996
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:44,800
>> Well,

2997
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:47,600
no. No, that's not correct. Jeeoff, you

2998
01:50:47,600 --> 01:50:50,239
explained to us, Kaden, that that see I

2999
01:50:50,239 --> 01:50:51,920
was mixed up with accessory buildings.

3000
01:50:51,920 --> 01:50:53,600
It was like tough sheds. So, I think

3001
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:57,840
that we are the setbacks are as con are

3002
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:00,159
as set forth in your proposed ADU

3003
01:51:00,159 --> 01:51:02,159
ordinance. That was my understanding.

3004
01:51:02,159 --> 01:51:02,400
Right.

3005
01:51:02,400 --> 01:51:04,159
>> Accessory structures use the same

3006
01:51:04,159 --> 01:51:07,119
setbacks, right, as primary No, no,

3007
01:51:07,119 --> 01:51:08,800
they're they're but

3008
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:10,560
>> they have shorter sides and shorter rear

3009
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:11,360
setbacks,

3010
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:13,119
>> but but we decided they were far enough,

3011
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:15,679
right? Because these ADUs the setbacks

3012
01:51:15,679 --> 01:51:18,320
as you proposed to us, right? Yeah.

3013
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:20,159
>> We I think we decided, oh yeah, okay,

3014
01:51:20,159 --> 01:51:23,360
those are that those are sufficient

3015
01:51:23,360 --> 01:51:24,800
>> because what were those setbacks?

3016
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:26,239
>> So, John, in your motion, if you're

3017
01:51:26,239 --> 01:51:27,600
saying you want them to match the main

3018
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:29,440
structure, that would have to be a 30ft

3019
01:51:29,440 --> 01:51:30,320
rear.

3020
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:31,360
>> Oh, yeah. Okay.

3021
01:51:31,360 --> 01:51:32,719
>> 12 foot side. If they're matching

3022
01:51:32,719 --> 01:51:34,400
accessory buildings, then it's only the

3023
01:51:34,400 --> 01:51:36,719
15 foot rear, 10 foot side for most

3024
01:51:36,719 --> 01:51:37,199
zones.

3025
01:51:37,199 --> 01:51:39,679
>> So, I I think as far as setbacks, we

3026
01:51:39,679 --> 01:51:42,639
aren't requesting or we we we aren't

3027
01:51:42,639 --> 01:51:44,320
requesting any modification to the

3028
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:48,080
language of the proposed AD ordinance.

3029
01:51:48,080 --> 01:51:50,159
Okay. Same setbacks.

3030
01:51:50,159 --> 01:51:52,480
>> The only weight

3031
01:51:52,480 --> 01:51:54,080
the height at 25.

3032
01:51:54,080 --> 01:51:55,599
>> We're not using the language from

3033
01:51:55,599 --> 01:51:56,320
holiday.

3034
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:56,800
>> Correct.

3035
01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:57,679
>> Yeah.

3036
01:51:57,679 --> 01:51:59,119
Yeah. I I would say we're not

3037
01:51:59,119 --> 01:52:01,040
using the language from holiday on

3038
01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:04,159
either height or setbacks,

3039
01:52:04,159 --> 01:52:08,960
>> but but yeah, but we are capping the

3040
01:52:08,960 --> 01:52:13,280
height of the ADU at 25 ft,

3041
01:52:13,280 --> 01:52:14,400
>> right?

3042
01:52:14,400 --> 01:52:15,199
>> Yes.

3043
01:52:15,199 --> 01:52:18,080
>> Okay. And sorry, one more clarification.

3044
01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:21,280
And that 25 ft is based on having a

3045
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:23,520
deeper setback than the required

3046
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:26,239
ordinance. Because for example, right

3047
01:52:26,239 --> 01:52:28,320
now if you're 10 and 15 with your

3048
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:30,000
accessory building, you're only allowed

3049
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:31,040
to be 20.

3050
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:32,080
>> Mhm.

3051
01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:32,400
>> Yes.

3052
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:34,719
>> If you want to get to 25, you have to go

3053
01:52:34,719 --> 01:52:37,119
farther and farther into your lot.

3054
01:52:37,119 --> 01:52:38,400
>> Is that what you're saying? Are you

3055
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:40,560
saying any building with an accessory

3056
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:45,280
dwelling unit can now be 25 ft?

3057
01:52:45,280 --> 01:52:45,920
>> I I think

3058
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:47,280
>> Well, it can I mean, what we had talked

3059
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:49,520
about is having it be no more than 25 ft

3060
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:51,760
because we just didn't want visual

3061
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:53,679
obstructions, you I mean you look your

3062
01:52:53,679 --> 01:52:55,760
primary dwelling can be we were just

3063
01:52:55,760 --> 01:52:59,199
trying to put a height cap

3064
01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:01,520
but he's just saying if you go above 20

3065
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:03,440
the setbacks have to change

3066
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:03,760
>> correct

3067
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:05,119
>> like like 25 ft.

3068
01:53:05,119 --> 01:53:06,480
>> So I was just clarifying that that is

3069
01:53:06,480 --> 01:53:07,920
the maximum you're saying you're not

3070
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:08,560
saying

3071
01:53:08,560 --> 01:53:10,719
>> and do we do we have that in the prop in

3072
01:53:10,719 --> 01:53:12,480
the proposed language now

3073
01:53:12,480 --> 01:53:15,199
>> that it adjusts with

3074
01:53:15,199 --> 01:53:18,880
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

3075
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:20,719
>> Okay.

3076
01:53:20,719 --> 01:53:22,719
Okay, I sec I second that motion.

3077
01:53:22,719 --> 01:53:24,719
>> So, we have a motion by John McCay,

3078
01:53:24,719 --> 01:53:25,599
>> second by Jeff.

3079
01:53:25,599 --> 01:53:28,320
>> We have a second by Jeff. Any discussion

3080
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:31,440
on the motion?

3081
01:53:31,440 --> 01:53:33,520
>> I think you got it pretty good. All in

3082
01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:34,480
favor? I

3083
01:53:34,480 --> 01:53:37,599
>> I Any opposed?

3084
01:53:37,599 --> 01:53:41,599
Okay. Unanimous. Um,

3085
01:53:41,599 --> 01:53:44,320
>> so all right, we we're running up

3086
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:45,599
against a meeting, but that like we

3087
01:53:45,599 --> 01:53:46,800
needed to do that.

3088
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:48,719
>> That's that's fine. I think I think the

3089
01:53:48,719 --> 01:53:51,119
next one can go pretty quickly. What

3090
01:53:51,119 --> 01:53:52,880
>> said I think the next item can go pretty

3091
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:53,199
quick.

3092
01:53:53,199 --> 01:53:56,080
>> I I mean I think so too. So uh Kaden,

3093
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:58,560
can you give us a very quick

3094
01:53:58,560 --> 01:54:00,880
introduction of

3095
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:02,080
action item B?

3096
01:54:02,080 --> 01:54:04,480
>> Okay. Yeah. So we we went over this last

3097
01:54:04,480 --> 01:54:06,400
time. It was tabled just because we

3098
01:54:06,400 --> 01:54:07,599
wanted to add a little bit of different

3099
01:54:07,599 --> 01:54:09,119
language for the pools that we were

3100
01:54:09,119 --> 01:54:11,280
talking about if the commissioners

3101
01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:14,000
remember. Um so this was just kind of a

3102
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,400
mass code update that we have. So this

3103
01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:18,960
exhibit A is the red line version of

3104
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:20,719
that updated code and we went through

3105
01:54:20,719 --> 01:54:22,560
this last time. Um there was some

3106
01:54:22,560 --> 01:54:24,239
clerical ones like this one where we

3107
01:54:24,239 --> 01:54:26,080
just reumbering.

3108
01:54:26,080 --> 01:54:28,960
Um there was other that were this one's

3109
01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:30,880
just putting this paragraph in a new

3110
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:32,639
location just to make more sense with

3111
01:54:32,639 --> 01:54:34,639
the flow of the code.

3112
01:54:34,639 --> 01:54:36,719
Um, we talked about home occupations

3113
01:54:36,719 --> 01:54:40,560
that we're trying to uh allow people to

3114
01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:42,239
just come to staff instead of having to

3115
01:54:42,239 --> 01:54:43,520
go to the planning commission if they're

3116
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:45,520
doing a really basic home occupation.

3117
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:47,360
And the the commissioners thought that

3118
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:49,520
was a good idea. Um, if we want to talk

3119
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:51,920
about it again, we can. This is also

3120
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:53,840
about that home occupation, just saying

3121
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:56,400
that city staff can review certain home

3122
01:54:56,400 --> 01:54:58,639
occupations that meet those requirements

3123
01:54:58,639 --> 01:55:01,119
that we put in there. Um, again, if

3124
01:55:01,119 --> 01:55:02,320
there's any questions on that, we can

3125
01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:05,440
stop. Um yeah, this is a clerical one.

3126
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:07,599
just cleaning up these l

3127
01:55:07,599 --> 01:55:10,239
this language here.

3128
01:55:10,239 --> 01:55:13,599
Um adding a definition for minor

3129
01:55:13,599 --> 01:55:14,960
subdivision here. Adding a definition

3130
01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:16,639
for accessory structure and adding a

3131
01:55:16,639 --> 01:55:19,920
definition for pool house. Um so for

3132
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:21,280
pool house, we talked about this last

3133
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:22,800
time. We were there was I think some

3134
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:24,400
discussion from the commissioners that

3135
01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:27,920
there was uh maybe some hesitancy that a

3136
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:29,760
pool house could contain pool equipment

3137
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:33,760
and how far away it could be. Um, so we

3138
01:55:33,760 --> 01:55:35,360
just made it abundantly clear that a

3139
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:37,199
pool house can have pool equipment, but

3140
01:55:37,199 --> 01:55:38,639
if it has pool equipment, it has to meet

3141
01:55:38,639 --> 01:55:41,280
the required setbacks for related

3142
01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:44,000
facilities because related facilities

3143
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:46,400
have a 10 foot by 10 foot setback. And

3144
01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:48,000
so any pool house would have to meet

3145
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:50,239
those those setbacks if they have the

3146
01:55:50,239 --> 01:55:52,560
pooluma inside them. So hopefully that

3147
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:53,360
clears that up.

3148
01:55:53,360 --> 01:55:55,040
>> Yeah, that's that's new.

3149
01:55:55,040 --> 01:55:56,719
>> Yes, this is a new definition in our

3150
01:55:56,719 --> 01:55:57,679
code.

3151
01:55:57,679 --> 01:55:58,639
>> Pool house.

3152
01:55:58,639 --> 01:56:02,000
>> Yep. Um, so the only one big thing that

3153
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:03,760
we probably should take some time

3154
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:05,840
discussing unfortunately and and we can

3155
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:08,719
maybe table this one part if we want to

3156
01:56:08,719 --> 01:56:10,480
um just because it might be a kind of

3157
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:13,840
more substantial discussion is this this

3158
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:17,199
part in our zones. Um

3159
01:56:17,199 --> 01:56:19,520
so right now an accessory building which

3160
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:22,239
is 12 feet or closer and is attached by

3161
01:56:22,239 --> 01:56:23,920
common roofer mall is part of the main

3162
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:25,599
building. We wanted to make that

3163
01:56:25,599 --> 01:56:27,280
abundantly clear that buildings that are

3164
01:56:27,280 --> 01:56:28,719
more than 12 feet away, whether they're

3165
01:56:28,719 --> 01:56:30,800
attached or not, are not attached.

3166
01:56:30,800 --> 01:56:34,639
They're detached. Um, and I think the

3167
01:56:34,639 --> 01:56:36,239
commissioners overall liked this

3168
01:56:36,239 --> 01:56:38,960
language, but we have had some

3169
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:41,599
discussion with uh city council member

3170
01:56:41,599 --> 01:56:43,599
Hanaman and she thinks there's a better

3171
01:56:43,599 --> 01:56:46,880
way to go about doing this. Um, and I'm

3172
01:56:46,880 --> 01:56:48,480
happy to go into that right now if we

3173
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:51,840
want to and consider that maybe instead.

3174
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:53,840
Um, but

3175
01:56:53,840 --> 01:56:55,440
yeah, it could it could be a long

3176
01:56:55,440 --> 01:56:56,800
discussion and it kind of relates to

3177
01:56:56,800 --> 01:56:58,080
that building we looked at in Highland

3178
01:56:58,080 --> 01:57:00,239
earlier with the long breezeway and the

3179
01:57:00,239 --> 01:57:03,520
huge building attached to the back. Um,

3180
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:04,800
so just

3181
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:08,080
>> Okay. So, yeah. So, what if we just went

3182
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:10,400
through basically and said, you know,

3183
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:12,080
had a motion to like

3184
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:14,480
>> table this discussion code to approve

3185
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:17,280
all changes except for this one which

3186
01:57:17,280 --> 01:57:19,199
shall which will be tabled and come back

3187
01:57:19,199 --> 01:57:21,199
to us two weeks along with the ADU.

3188
01:57:21,199 --> 01:57:21,840
Okay,

3189
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:22,400
>> that worked.

3190
01:57:22,400 --> 01:57:24,239
>> I think that'd be great. Yeah.

3191
01:57:24,239 --> 01:57:24,960
>> Okay, thank you.

3192
01:57:24,960 --> 01:57:25,440
>> That's great.

3193
01:57:25,440 --> 01:57:27,760
>> Does any Oh, sorry. Did I cut you off?

3194
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:29,520
>> No, no, no. You didn't. So, just to make

3195
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:31,280
it Yeah. When you table it, just make

3196
01:57:31,280 --> 01:57:34,159
sure you talk uh the customary accessory

3197
01:57:34,159 --> 01:57:37,599
structures in each zone. That's the language you need to table.

3198
01:57:37,599 --> 01:57:39,760
>> Okay. So, there's that accessory caden.

3199
01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:44,239
And then I also know that that that that

3200
01:57:44,239 --> 01:57:45,840
um

3201
01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:48,560
councilwoman council person Haniman also

3202
01:57:48,560 --> 01:57:50,239
has concerns and I don't know if that's

3203
01:57:50,239 --> 01:57:53,599
part of this development code about

3204
01:57:53,599 --> 01:57:55,199
remodeling.

3205
01:57:55,199 --> 01:57:57,360
Right. Right. And and and how look I

3206
01:57:57,360 --> 01:58:00,960
mean a remodel uh is it like you can't

3207
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:03,520
just basically build a whole new giant

3208
01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:04,880
building

3209
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:07,599
>> that looks nothing like the primary

3210
01:58:07,599 --> 01:58:08,400
dwelling.

3211
01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:10,800
>> Yeah. connect it with a covered

3212
01:58:10,800 --> 01:58:13,199
breezeway and call it a remodel.

3213
01:58:13,199 --> 01:58:13,520
>> Right.

3214
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:14,800
Is is

3215
01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:17,360
>> that is exactly related to this? Yes.

3216
01:58:17,360 --> 01:58:20,000
>> Is is okay. So So we can discuss that in

3217
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:20,480
two weeks.

3218
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:22,239
>> We will. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, we will we

3219
01:58:22,239 --> 01:58:24,480
will let's do that then. Yeah, we we'll

3220
01:58:24,480 --> 01:58:26,560
All right. Is that everything you wanted

3221
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:27,920
to introduce, Kaden?

3222
01:58:27,920 --> 01:58:30,000
>> Um and then let's see. Let's let me just

3223
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:30,960
get through this. So this is the

3224
01:58:30,960 --> 01:58:32,080
swimming pool code we were talking

3225
01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:33,840
about. So just again to make it clear,

3226
01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:35,599
we're now we're saying that storage

3227
01:58:35,599 --> 01:58:38,320
structures and pool houses that do not

3228
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:40,080
have considered do not have related

3229
01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:41,679
facilities which it contains that pool

3230
01:58:41,679 --> 01:58:43,840
equipment that we were worried about um

3231
01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:45,440
are evaluated based on accessory

3232
01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:46,880
structure requirements of the underlying

3233
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:48,159
zone. Again, the reason we're changing

3234
01:58:48,159 --> 01:58:49,760
this is some people have pool houses

3235
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:52,000
that they want to put closer to their

3236
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:54,320
property line and if they label it pool

3237
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:55,679
house on their plans, we have to tell

3238
01:58:55,679 --> 01:58:58,239
them label it as a shed instead. And

3239
01:58:58,239 --> 01:58:59,760
then you can have those. And so it just

3240
01:58:59,760 --> 01:59:01,840
makes more sense to say, yeah, if you

3241
01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:04,639
have a pool house that just is for

3242
01:59:04,639 --> 01:59:06,800
storage, you can have it as just a

3243
01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:08,560
normal accessory building. That's the

3244
01:59:08,560 --> 01:59:10,800
whole point of that change.

3245
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:13,679
Um, and then I just have these repeated

3246
01:59:13,679 --> 01:59:14,960
throughout because we have to have that

3247
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:16,960
in each zone. So again, yeah, accessory

3248
01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:18,400
structures, which we're going to table

3249
01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:20,000
swimming pools again. Accessory

3250
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:22,639
structure, swimming pools, accessory

3251
01:59:22,639 --> 01:59:25,840
structure, swimming pools,

3252
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:28,639
just a few little sheds. And then that

3253
01:59:28,639 --> 01:59:30,159
is it.

3254
01:59:30,159 --> 01:59:31,440
>> This is the clean version.

3255
01:59:31,440 --> 01:59:33,119
>> Those are cute little shees sheds. I

3256
01:59:33,119 --> 01:59:34,880
wanted one of those.

3257
01:59:34,880 --> 01:59:36,560
>> Um.

3258
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:38,639
>> Wow. Okay. All right. So, thank you,

3259
01:59:38,639 --> 01:59:40,000
Kaden. All right. So, we've gone through

3260
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:42,239
a whole bunch of revisions to the

3261
01:59:42,239 --> 01:59:43,840
development code and the ordinances. Any

3262
01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:45,599
questions on that? There is one

3263
01:59:45,599 --> 01:59:47,440
particular provision that we will table

3264
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:49,760
and revisit. Uh, but I would entertain a

3265
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:52,800
motion to approve to to to approve all

3266
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:55,840
the others, but table the one.

3267
01:59:55,840 --> 01:59:58,239
>> Yeah. What what was that section again,

3268
01:59:58,239 --> 02:00:00,080
Kaden? The customary what?

3269
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:02,080
>> Accessory structures.

3270
02:00:02,080 --> 02:00:04,000
>> Customary accessory structures.

3271
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:04,480
>> Custom

3272
02:00:04,480 --> 02:00:06,080
>> for each zone. Yeah, because each zone

3273
02:00:06,080 --> 02:00:11,633
has an accessory structure section. So,

3274
02:00:11,633 --> 02:00:11,920
[snorts]

3275
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:17,189
>> okay.

3276
02:00:17,199 --> 02:00:19,760
So I I I move to recommend

3277
02:00:19,760 --> 02:00:22,239
approval to the city council of the

3278
02:00:22,239 --> 02:00:23,840
proposed text amendments to the

3279
02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:26,960
development code as presented

3280
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:30,480
subject to the following change and that

3281
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:34,000
is we will table

3282
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:39,679
for all sections or all zones the

3283
02:00:39,679 --> 02:00:42,800
specific code dealing with customary

3284
02:00:42,800 --> 02:00:45,920
accessory structures.

3285
02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:49,199
Okay, we have a motion by Jeff. We have

3286
02:00:49,199 --> 02:00:50,480
a second.

3287
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:51,520
>> I'll second it.

3288
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:53,199
>> Second by Suz Whittenberg. Discussion on

3289
02:00:53,199 --> 02:00:55,920
the motion.

3290
02:00:55,920 --> 02:00:57,599
>> He's got a table. He's got a

3291
02:00:57,599 --> 02:00:58,800
recommendation

3292
02:00:58,800 --> 02:00:59,840
>> to approve

3293
02:00:59,840 --> 02:01:03,040
>> same motion.

3294
02:01:03,040 --> 02:01:05,440
>> Um,

3295
02:01:05,440 --> 02:01:06,960
that's a good question.

3296
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:08,480
>> That might be a Robert's rule issue,

3297
02:01:08,480 --> 02:01:09,119
right?

3298
02:01:09,119 --> 02:01:10,560
>> Should we have two separate motions?

3299
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:12,560
Should we have a motion? Okay. So,

3300
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:14,560
>> just table it with with the reason for

3301
02:01:14,560 --> 02:01:15,360
the tableing.

3302
02:01:15,360 --> 02:01:16,159
>> Well, but

3303
02:01:16,159 --> 02:01:18,239
>> we pick it up at next meeting

3304
02:01:18,239 --> 02:01:20,560
>> and we could do that. I'm f I'm fine

3305
02:01:20,560 --> 02:01:22,239
with that.

3306
02:01:22,239 --> 02:01:25,920
Okay. I I'm I move to table the proposed

3307
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:27,679
text amendments to the development code

3308
02:01:27,679 --> 02:01:30,560
as presented to a future meeting in

3309
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:32,400
order to allow additional time for the

3310
02:01:32,400 --> 02:01:35,520
revisions and discussion by planning

3311
02:01:35,520 --> 02:01:38,239
commission on the customary accessory

3312
02:01:38,239 --> 02:01:41,679
structures for each zone.

3313
02:01:41,679 --> 02:01:47,199
Okay. U have a motion to table by and Kaden that won't timetable wise that

3314
02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:48,400
doesn't that doesn't cause you any

3315
02:01:48,400 --> 02:01:49,760
heart. That's fine. Okay. Great. All

3316
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:52,000
right. We have a motion to table by Jeff

3317
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:54,159
Davis. Do we have a second?

3318
02:01:54,159 --> 02:01:55,040
>> I'll second it.

3319
02:01:55,040 --> 02:01:57,040
>> S. We have a second by Suz Whittenberg.

3320
02:01:57,040 --> 02:01:59,280
Discussion on the motion.

3321
02:01:59,280 --> 02:02:00,719
>> All in favor?

3322
02:02:00,719 --> 02:02:03,920
>> I. Any opposed? Okay. Uh motion passes

3323
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:09,589
unanimously. Uh any communications?

3324
02:02:09,599 --> 02:02:11,840
Okay. No communications. Uh

3325
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:13,440
>> sidebar going over here.

3326
02:02:13,440 --> 02:02:16,000
>> Yeah. Um

3327
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:17,760
>> Kaden, Jason, anything that needs to

3328
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:19,440
come before commission? Okay. Yeah, no

3329
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:20,239
worries.

3330
02:02:20,239 --> 02:02:22,320
>> Um they're talking about like like

3331
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:23,760
you're going to go to Del Taco or Taco

3332
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:25,440
Bell after after this meeting. They're

3333
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:26,719
like I'm wondering the same thing. I'm

3334
02:02:26,719 --> 02:02:29,199
going with you. Um okay. Anybody read

3335
02:02:29,199 --> 02:02:35,350
the minutes or want to do a motion?

3336
02:02:35,360 --> 02:02:37,520
» Well, I was here. So, I will approve

3337
02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:40,320
these move to approve the minutes from

3338
02:02:40,320 --> 02:02:43,440
August 4th, 2026 planning commission

3339
02:02:43,440 --> 02:02:44,960
meeting as written.

3340
02:02:44,960 --> 02:02:46,560
>> We have a motion by John McCay to

3341
02:02:46,560 --> 02:02:48,639
approve the uh minutes. Do you have a

3342
02:02:48,639 --> 02:02:48,960
second?

3343
02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:49,920
>> I'll second.

3344
02:02:49,920 --> 02:02:52,960
>> Second by uh Jeff. All in favor? I

3345
02:02:52,960 --> 02:02:54,000
>> I

3346
02:02:54,000 --> 02:02:56,400
>> uh motion to adjurnn. Anyone?

3347
02:02:56,400 --> 02:02:57,520
>> So moved.

3348
02:02:57,520 --> 02:02:59,280
>> Okay. So moved and seconded. Somebody

3349
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:01,199
did. Uh

3350
02:03:01,199 --> 02:03:04,080
all in favor I. Motion or meeting

3351
02:03:04,080 --> 02:03:06,159
adjourned.

3352
02:03:06,159 --> 02:03:09,360
Thank you everybody. That was some uh

3353
02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:11,599
heavy lifting and and deep waiting.

3354
02:03:11,599 --> 02:03:16,310
Thank you.

3355
02:03:16,320 --> 02:03:18,800
» No, I came to show my support. No one

3356
02:03:18,800 --> 02:03:24,149
else has live tattoo. [laughter]

3357
02:03:24,159 --> 02:03:26,239
» No one else has it. And I bought this

3358
02:03:26,239 --> 02:03:29,280
city council meeting.

3359
02:03:29,280 --> 02:03:30,400
>> Is that a brand new?

3360
02:03:30,400 --> 02:03:32,159
>> It's not brand new. I got when I was 15

3361
02:03:32,159 --> 02:03:34,480
but touched up because I got it touched

3362
02:03:34,480 --> 02:03:36,639
up for days.

3363
02:03:36,639 --> 02:03:39,280
>> A guy for a company's logo tattooed it

3364
02:03:39,280 --> 02:03:47,910
on his arm. Sold the company.

3365
02:03:47,920 --> 02:03:51,920
» Hey, we love it. Every case.