1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960 here. Jason just barely put this cost 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,240 estimate together. Um, one of the 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:07,919 provisions in the proposed development 4 00:00:07,919 --> 00:00:11,840 agreement is that their contractor 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,120 would do the city work. Um, Steve's 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,279 reviewed this. We have a few concerns 7 00:00:17,279 --> 00:00:19,600 with that with our procurement process 8 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,800 and and our, you know, competitive bids 9 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,439 that we always do. Um, so that's 10 00:00:25,439 --> 00:00:27,039 something that would need to be worked 11 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:30,480 out and and that would end up affecting 12 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,480 final price and everything, too. So, 13 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:34,719 that's an estimate. And Jason doesn't 14 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:37,120 want to build it, so it's he doesn't 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,960 want to be the low bidder. 16 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,719 >> Nice. [laughter] 17 00:00:40,719 --> 00:00:42,640 Um, and then how often do we get 18 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,520 requests from developers for private 19 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,399 streets? I'm just curious. Does that 20 00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:51,840 come up often? Uh we've in the last year 21 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,320 we've had one other that I can think of 22 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,719 and uh I thought you were going to ask 23 00:00:56,719 --> 00:00:58,879 these development agreements and they're 24 00:00:58,879 --> 00:01:01,760 brand new here. For whatever reason the 25 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,159 development community here hasn't 26 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:06,080 approached that 27 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,560 >> and we really didn't know too much about 28 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:14,880 them until we dug into it. So um so not often besides the senior housing 29 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,960 projects. They'd be the more common. 30 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:18,000 >> Okay. Thank you. 31 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,240 >> Yeah. Um I guess my my feelings, 32 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,560 thoughts, opinions is that I mean I love 33 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,640 the the idea of getting something in 34 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,119 return that benefits the city. Um 35 00:01:27,119 --> 00:01:30,400 understanding what percentage um of the 36 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,400 cost, you know, would be covered by that 37 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,920 will also play into kind of is it is it worth that? I don't know. Anyway, 38 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,840 so just still still some things I'm 39 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,320 thinking about, but I do I do appreciate 40 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,159 that. So, 41 00:01:44,159 --> 00:01:46,000 >> as a followup just to that, just to make 42 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,720 sure I'm clear, would we want to do that 43 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,399 improvement regardless of whether this 44 00:01:50,399 --> 00:01:53,439 was a four lot development or a five or 45 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:56,000 so even if it was undeveloped? 46 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,000 >> This this properties came on the market 47 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,040 just over the last I don't know six to 48 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,280 10 months probably, I'd say. And we've 49 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,759 had 50 00:02:05,759 --> 00:02:08,399 probably at least four parties come in 51 00:02:08,399 --> 00:02:10,239 and talk to the city about it. It's just 52 00:02:10,239 --> 00:02:12,480 something that we kind of threw out 53 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,160 there like, hey, it'd be great for us to 54 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,480 have this if we could. Um, but of the 55 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,879 two improvements, for sure the water 56 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:24,319 line would be the more important if if 57 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:26,239 one wasn't possible. 58 00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:29,280 >> So, those are both optional, but you the 59 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,280 staff is recommending we do both for 60 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,800 now. 61 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,319 uh if we can work out the terms and can 62 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:38,319 you know 63 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:40,560 financially make it work too. 64 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,800 >> I think staff's planning ahead that both 65 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,200 will be needed eventually whether both 66 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,599 happen right away or not. That was my 67 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:49,040 understanding is that the water line 68 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,319 should go in first and that's the 69 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:51,440 priority. 70 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,599 >> If it works out then yes also did the 71 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:54,400 storm drain. 72 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,000 >> Yeah. Thanks. 73 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,599 >> I don't have any other questions or 74 00:02:57,599 --> 00:02:58,879 comments. 75 00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:01,519 Thank you for the information and Brent 76 00:03:01,519 --> 00:03:03,840 for those points. I had those same 77 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,120 questions about what would be the 78 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,840 disadvantages of a private road which um 79 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,239 we've already evaluated. Um I did have a 80 00:03:12,239 --> 00:03:16,400 question on the um 81 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,319 the 82 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:22,720 uh the area around that. So considering 83 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,319 that we're putting in um five lots, not 84 00:03:26,319 --> 00:03:28,480 being familiar like Brent with the area, 85 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,239 is most of that already developed around 86 00:03:30,239 --> 00:03:32,400 there or would this opportunity not come 87 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,720 again in another property? 88 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,720 >> The only property in Alpine that's not 89 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,040 developed on on that south side of 90 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,959 Healey Boulevard would be the Ber 91 00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:42,480 property. 92 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,000 >> I'm sorry, I don't know our properties 93 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:44,560 by name. 94 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,599 >> It's the corner of Canyon Crest and 95 00:03:47,599 --> 00:03:50,239 Alageni. I always forget if it's circle 96 00:03:50,239 --> 00:03:52,239 or court. So, in that vicinity, 97 00:03:52,239 --> 00:03:54,319 everything else has been platted and and 98 00:03:54,319 --> 00:03:56,000 everything's all done. Okay. All right. 99 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,760 That was my only question. Otherwise, 100 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,599 I'm like Brent. I feel like there's more 101 00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:00,879 the advantages outweigh the 102 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:03,680 disadvantages. I wasn't familiar why we 103 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,840 didn't allow private roads in Alpine. I 104 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,599 don't know if there's anything 105 00:04:07,599 --> 00:04:09,680 additional than what Brent has listed, 106 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,360 but um 107 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:12,959 >> and and this property was actually 108 00:04:12,959 --> 00:04:17,280 approved uh years ago for a uh church 109 00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:17,919 building. 110 00:04:17,919 --> 00:04:20,160 >> Oh. But then they never move forward 111 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:20,799 with it. 112 00:04:20,799 --> 00:04:23,600 >> It didn't pan out. Okay. Anyways, thank 113 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,120 you. That's I don't have any other 114 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,440 questions. 115 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,960 >> Uh just a few here. [clears throat] 116 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,800 So, I did talk to the residents around 117 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,440 here. Um they would prefer we don't make 118 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,479 these exceptions, just so you know. Um 119 00:04:40,479 --> 00:04:42,960 >> they think uh well they've got several 120 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,000 but they think that uh 121 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,680 we shouldn't allow this because no one 122 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,400 else gets this privilege or these 123 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,240 exceptions. And I think this 124 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,360 neighborhood has had a lot of 125 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,960 bizarre things happen. I think they're 126 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,199 reeling from it across the street up the 127 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:02,960 road. We recently approved a 128 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,040 um I'm getting it nearly daily. We 129 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,960 recently approved a exception to a 130 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,120 four-sided lot 131 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,800 and uh because of what's happening, it's 132 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,160 not only that neighborhood, but the 133 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,560 surrounding two neighborhoods are asking 134 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,720 how in heaven's name was it allowed 135 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,000 because you can see it now from so far. 136 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,080 Um I don't know. I I was curious how 137 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,320 Brent would handle this because you're 138 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,039 such a legal mind. So I was curious. I I 139 00:05:29,039 --> 00:05:30,160 should have called you. I was curious 140 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,360 how you'd handle this. um uh given that 141 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,000 it is so against code. Um 142 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:38,560 but anyways, 143 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,680 >> do you want me to answer that? 144 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,520 >> Sure. Well, I think you already did when 145 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:42,320 you talked, but 146 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,080 >> and I've said this before, maybe not as 147 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,840 often since you've been on the council, 148 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:51,280 is land use is not an exact science and 149 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,360 no ordinance is perfect. 150 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:54,720 >> Wow. Quote, 151 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,479 >> no. I mean, [laughter] 152 00:05:56,479 --> 00:05:59,280 and so generally you have exceptions 153 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,120 within the ordinances. Almost everything 154 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,039 has exceptions, conditional uses, other 155 00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:05,520 exceptions because not every property 156 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,639 fits perfectly into the code. Um, as far 157 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:11,280 as the the residents, um, hey, we didn't 158 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:12,560 get this. Why should someone else get 159 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,639 it? I think it's actually the other way 160 00:06:14,639 --> 00:06:16,880 around. These residents of these five 161 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,280 units, this is more of a benefit to the 162 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:20,240 developer. They're going to get five 163 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,000 lots instead of four. 164 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,199 um the residents of these five lots, 165 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:26,400 they're going to have the burden of 166 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,120 maintaining those roads on their own, 167 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,280 snowplowing, everything else. 168 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:33,919 >> So, it's really less of a benefit, I 169 00:06:33,919 --> 00:06:35,919 think, than what the maybe the people on 170 00:06:35,919 --> 00:06:37,600 Alageney just to the south of this or 171 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,680 southwest of southwest of this. Um, so 172 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,160 again, yes, we do have an ordinance that 173 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:45,759 says no private roads and there are 174 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:47,039 reasons for that and I kind of 175 00:06:47,039 --> 00:06:49,039 articulated those. I I researched why 176 00:06:49,039 --> 00:06:51,120 they why they exist. 177 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,240 Um, I see this more as a shared drive, 178 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,560 like a pipe stem or a shared driveway 179 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,960 that I've seen all over the country. Um, 180 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,800 I don't know if I've seen it very much 181 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:01,840 here. I don't 182 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:03,759 >> we have it up in Alpine up, but is it 183 00:07:03,759 --> 00:07:05,840 North Point? other people have those 184 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:09,199 >> those experiences. But I think this is I 185 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:10,639 don't think this is would have any 186 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:12,240 impact on those other residents just 187 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,560 because the developer of those lots 188 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,560 several years ago when they subdivided 189 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,120 and sold them, they didn't get to get an 190 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,919 extra lot out of it. Maybe that's a a a 191 00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:23,840 disadvantage to that developer, but I 192 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,120 don't see it as a disadvantage to the 193 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,160 residents. Um, I think the residents 194 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,360 should probably, especially the ones 195 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,800 that use Healey, would be much more uh 196 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,599 in favor of having one street exit onto 197 00:07:35,599 --> 00:07:37,120 Healey than having four driveways that 198 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,240 they have to worry about when they 199 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,880 travel back and forth. I think that's a 200 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,160 significant safety issue and maybe they 201 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,599 weren't that wasn't explained to them 202 00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:45,120 when you spoke with them 203 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,759 >> about what the potential safety benefits 204 00:07:47,759 --> 00:07:49,440 could be for that area. So, just some 205 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,120 thoughts. But again, just going back to 206 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,280 your basic question is there there's 207 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:54,400 there are room for there's room for 208 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,599 improvement in in an ordinance as you 209 00:07:57,599 --> 00:08:00,080 come up with with um issues that aren't 210 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,319 foreseen or unique properties that 211 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:03,919 aren't foreseen and most of our 212 00:08:03,919 --> 00:08:06,400 ordinances have exceptions for that 213 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,160 purpose and we just don't happen to have 214 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,360 one for this one. 215 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:10,800 >> Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Well, we do have 216 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,720 a way to get to the same the same um 217 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,400 conclusion, but there's not an exception 218 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,800 to the private road one other than this 219 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,479 the the statues that were cited by our 220 00:08:20,479 --> 00:08:20,960 attorney. 221 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,080 >> And what is the difference between 222 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,840 private road and a private drive? 223 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,280 >> It's really the same thing, right? 224 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,160 >> Really the same thing. 225 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:28,400 >> Okay. 226 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,840 >> Yeah. 227 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,159 >> So, we have that already which we 228 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:35,039 allowed in other parts of the city. Um, 229 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,440 and I think for me the main thing would 230 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,240 be that the city actually benefits. It's 231 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,159 saving us 232 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:44,560 money and it's giving us access to 233 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:46,320 things that we don't have currently. I 234 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,160 think if it if those things weren't 235 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,720 involved, if the water if the water line 236 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,800 easement and the sewer easement were 237 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,720 involved, I think it would be more 238 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,880 clear-cut. There's, you know, there's no 239 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,560 advantage to the city. Um, 240 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,200 >> okay. How staunch are the developers 241 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,760 with the $100,000 towards the cost of 242 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:06,720 the projects? 243 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,760 >> That was my question. Next question. 244 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,000 >> So, if we do, if they're willing to do 245 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,480 some of the work and it's in kind, I 246 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,870 mean, is that negotiable? 247 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,200 » I I can answer that for Brett, but I I 248 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:21,920 let him. 249 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:22,800 >> Go ahead. 250 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,880 >> So, everything's negotiable, guys. We're 251 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,920 developers. But um 252 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,519 I mean in our mind after running the 253 00:09:29,519 --> 00:09:31,519 financial performer, we all know that's 254 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:33,680 how it comes down for us, right? Is we 255 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:35,040 thought it would be better not having it 256 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,800 on Healey and we had to give something 257 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,880 up to the city. So at first we were just 258 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,320 going to give up the easements like 259 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,399 being completely candid and our attorney 260 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:43,920 Paxton Gman who's done a lot of work 261 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,480 with the city, he's like we gota we got 262 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,000 to help them out a little bit here. So 263 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,880 even giving us we would be happy to even 264 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,720 give up the easement and give the 265 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,640 $100,000 to you guys as a fee in Lou 266 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,240 that you guys can then use however. Um 267 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,760 and then you can put in that you would 268 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,839 then have the easement and could put in 269 00:10:03,839 --> 00:10:06,399 those facilities when you wanted. Um 270 00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:10,000 contributing more than $100,000 being 271 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,560 canned would be a little challenging. 272 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:13,760 Our our hope is 273 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:14,800 >> but you're getting what a million 274 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,800 dollars for the extra lot. We've got to 275 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,959 build the private drive and the lots are 276 00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:20,880 so 277 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,279 we could Yeah, we could go over those 278 00:10:23,279 --> 00:10:25,200 numbers another time, but um 279 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,120 >> is there a way that since you guys are 280 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,399 developers and you're going to be 281 00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:31,600 tearing up the road and the property to 282 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,040 do something? I know you said that we 283 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,360 have um 284 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,680 our um sourcing process and going 285 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,440 through the RFPs, but if we do some kind 286 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,560 of a joint venture in maybe utilizing 287 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:44,320 your equipment and 288 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,279 >> that's what we were trying 289 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:47,120 >> maybe getting the $100,000 and then 290 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,760 maybe some little extra 291 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,839 >> excavation or something or 292 00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:54,079 >> we could do that. So what we what we had 293 00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:56,160 thought about doing I hate saying this 294 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,839 on public record but it is what it is. 295 00:10:57,839 --> 00:10:59,839 We develop cheaper than you guys because 296 00:10:59,839 --> 00:11:02,160 we don't have to go competitive bid. We 297 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,920 have a different process. So our thought 298 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:05,920 was 299 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,519 we can probably do the work cheaper than 300 00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:09,120 you guys can. So we would share those 301 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,279 numbers with you guys. But again, I 302 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:12,800 can't speak for your legal consequences 303 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,720 that you guys would have. But that's why 304 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,399 we offered to do the work was an extra 305 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:20,320 incentive. And then you guys could even 306 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,640 bid it out against your own. But yes, 307 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,480 >> and and if this were to move forward uh 308 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,800 and they did the construction, we have 309 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,880 costs from last fall, 310 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,680 >> so fairly recent that we could compare 311 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:33,760 an 312 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:34,399 >> idea. Okay. 313 00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:35,040 >> Yeah. 314 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:35,680 >> Thank you. 315 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:37,040 >> Actually, could he stay up there? I was 316 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,200 going to finish mine. Uh since he's up 317 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,920 here, I can already ask. So, um just a 318 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,440 couple questions so I can get to know 319 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,440 you guys. Are you guys from Alpine by 320 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:46,240 chance? 321 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,360 >> Uh we have developed all over. Uh we we 322 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,279 both live in Riverton right now. Okay. 323 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:52,560 >> But we do a lot of high-end 324 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:54,160 subdivisions. We just did a project up 325 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,600 by Pepperwood and Dimple. 326 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:56,959 >> Cool. And this helps me like more for 327 00:11:56,959 --> 00:11:59,440 the property tax philosophical 328 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,000 thing going on in all of our heads or 329 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,880 mine for sure. Um, do you guys currently 330 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,880 own it or is it contingent on this deal? 331 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:07,440 >> We own it. 332 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:08,399 >> So, you own it outright. 333 00:12:08,399 --> 00:12:09,760 >> We've already purchased it. Yes, sir. 334 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,959 >> Financed or full out? 335 00:12:12,959 --> 00:12:14,079 >> Okay. Come on. 336 00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:15,920 >> That's That's not That's not relevant. 337 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,040 >> No, let's move on. 338 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:17,839 >> And it's not appropriate. 339 00:12:17,839 --> 00:12:18,959 >> I'm going through all my questions. 340 00:12:18,959 --> 00:12:20,560 >> Okay. Okay. So you don't you don't have 341 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:21,519 to they don't have you don't have to 342 00:12:21,519 --> 00:12:21,839 answer 343 00:12:21,839 --> 00:12:23,040 >> you can look at public record. I don't 344 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:24,560 have a loan on it. It's all my money. 345 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,120 >> Okay, cool. So and then is the intent to 346 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,440 just for you guys to use some of the 347 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:30,639 properties for your own homes or is it 348 00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:32,240 to sell it to other people for their 349 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:33,360 homes? 350 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:34,240 >> Again, 351 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,680 >> what's wrong with that question? It's 352 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,680 sincere because if he lives there, it 353 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:38,959 might be different than if it's just for 354 00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:40,160 someone else because at the end of the 355 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,079 day, the property owner will be that 356 00:12:42,079 --> 00:12:43,680 person. So the reason we started looking 357 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:45,360 at it is one of those homes right up the 358 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,880 street was my neighbors in Riverton and 359 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,480 that's why we started looking at it and 360 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:48,800 okay 361 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,040 >> he is trying to get me up here but quite 362 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,120 it's a beautiful community. I have my 363 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,200 kids I'm raising that are really in 364 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,639 involved in our high school and junior 365 00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:59,279 high so they've already got me as a dad 366 00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:02,480 so I quantif 367 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,160 you'll sell them to and then those will 368 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,200 be the folks that will 369 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,800 >> Yeah. So our our specialty is a 370 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,320 developer. I feel bad Shane I'm 371 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:09,680 hijacking your meeting. You already told 372 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:10,560 me you got 373 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:13,360 >> So yeah, let's Okay, you know what? You 374 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,040 get one more question, then we're going 375 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,399 to go on to Chrissy and then we're 376 00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:18,320 moving on. Okay, we have three more 377 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,800 things on the agenda and we have 45 more 378 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,160 minutes. Okay, 379 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,000 >> so you get one more question. 380 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:31,030 >> Okay, the last question. Um 381 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,360 I guess it's just comments now. I just 382 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:34,880 uh one thing that will help, we have a 383 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,800 lot of residents that come in and they 384 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,240 pitch for things. Um, it just looks like 385 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,320 there's a lot of time that's been spent 386 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,600 or some degree of time by u Mr. Doxy 387 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,160 with the agreement and then Shane and I 388 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,680 think it would just help if we gave the 389 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:53,279 residents the same amount of um time and 390 00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:54,800 priority when they come in and pitch 391 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:55,920 things and then 392 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,360 >> they actually drafted it. 393 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,040 >> Yeah, we already we're already out legal 394 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,880 expense. That wasn't done by Steve Doxy. 395 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,079 It was done by our attorney with 396 00:14:02,079 --> 00:14:03,360 >> Oh, well in the report it just said he 397 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,600 looked over it then. Either way, um just 398 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:06,800 the fact that it's coming up. I mean, 399 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:07,920 there's we've had a lot of residents try 400 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,199 to push things. They just take a long 401 00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:11,199 time and we're not able to get them 402 00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:12,959 prioritized. And the last thing is I 403 00:14:12,959 --> 00:14:16,079 it's it's more for the council. Um 404 00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:18,160 the I mean, we got elections coming up 405 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,519 and these are I I suggest you talk to 406 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:23,920 these folks. They're not pleased with 407 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,320 the last exceptions we've made. They're 408 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,399 not pleased with this. Um just to 409 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:30,000 consider that. Uh at the end of the day, 410 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,320 we represent the residents. So, thank 411 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:32,639 you. 412 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:33,760 >> Thank you, Chrissy. 413 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,360 >> I already asked my questions. Thanks. 414 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,199 Just one one just one more general 415 00:14:37,199 --> 00:14:40,880 comment is again as a 416 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,560 I don't know what I think you're a very 417 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,600 fairly conservative politically person 418 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,240 generally conservative people and a 419 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,279 conservative state is 420 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,440 airing on the on the on the rights of 421 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,040 the land owner. Um yeah we generally do 422 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,959 want to consider the public benefit 423 00:14:58,959 --> 00:15:01,040 that's how zoning and all land use is 424 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,800 applicable. And while the courts say 425 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,519 yes, you can impose restrictions on 426 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:07,440 people's ability to use our land, but it 427 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:08,720 has to be reasonable. It has to be for 428 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,760 the public benefit. So Utah law 429 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,440 basically says to heir on the side of 430 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,720 the land owner when the law is ambiguous 431 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,480 or when there's no significant public 432 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,560 benefit. And I just don't see the public 433 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,680 benefit here of not allowing this. I 434 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,000 think it actually is is in the public 435 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,600 benefit to allow it for the safety 436 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,120 reasons that I articulated. It would be 437 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,040 another thing if they were asking for 438 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,279 halfacre lots and they're not. Each of 439 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:34,320 the lots 440 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,600 >> are over the 40,000 that is required in 441 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:38,320 the zone. 442 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,440 >> So just just to explain 443 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,360 >> and of all those reasons of why why you 444 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,720 would not want to allow a private 445 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,160 street. This is the only reason that's 446 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,760 the only thing we're talking about here 447 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,680 is a private street versus four 448 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:48,639 driveways. 449 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:49,600 >> Well, yes. Okay. 450 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,560 >> They're going to develop the land 451 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:51,199 regardless 452 00:15:51,199 --> 00:15:52,880 >> to explain. These are great points to 453 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:53,440 explain. 454 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,759 >> None of them are applicable in my if you 455 00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:57,920 think they are, that's great. So great. 456 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,600 I think we do need to move on. But hold 457 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,519 on. Thank you very much. I appreciate 458 00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:03,759 you coming and addressing our concerns. 459 00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:04,480 Thank you. 460 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,000 >> Hold on. To explain what Brent said, 461 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,199 it's it's valuable because he asked he he made he made inferences about uh 462 00:16:11,199 --> 00:16:13,519 me being conservative. 463 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:14,399 >> We can take it offline. 464 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:15,600 >> No, no, this will this will help. This 465 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:16,800 will help. It's very quick. It's 466 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:17,600 >> I don't think it's going to help 467 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:18,320 anything. 468 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,639 >> So So that was the reason I was asking 469 00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:22,399 him about who would be the ultimate 470 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:24,399 owner. I was trying to derive who would 471 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:26,240 be the ultimate property owner and 472 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,199 generally they want lots that are as we 473 00:16:29,199 --> 00:16:31,279 have them. The other thing is whenever I 474 00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:33,680 am I I ran as a deep conservative. I 475 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,839 spend most of my time working in very liberal cities and they all fail 476 00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:40,000 for one thing. They overdevelop. We're 477 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,639 talking Chicago, DC, San Francisco. They 478 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:45,120 overdevelop. They over densify and then 479 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,880 they have a big big difference. 480 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,560 >> Let's move on. Okay. No, let's move on. 481 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,320 It's time to move on. You're going on to 482 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:51,920 a diet trap. We understand where you're 483 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:52,639 coming from, 484 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:53,040 >> right? 485 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,279 >> We're going on on to item D, detached 486 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:57,920 accessory dwelling units, ADUs. As we 487 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,240 all know, is allowed by um the state 488 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,639 legislature this year and so we need to 489 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:04,640 come up with an ordinance that addresses 490 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,720 it and so how we are going to kind of 491 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,160 work on that. I know Kaden's been 492 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,319 working on it. We've asked him to um 493 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,799 come up with them some stuff. Kaden, did 494 00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:17,360 you want to take that over or 495 00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:18,319 Shane wants to add it? 496 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:18,959 >> No, go ahead. 497 00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:20,160 >> Okay. 498 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,120 >> Yeah. So, um, since we don't have a lot 499 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:24,640 of time today, the kind of the goal was 500 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,720 just to get council's input as we try to 501 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,000 formalize this this code update. Like we 502 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,880 said, it's mandatory. So, this is not a 503 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,720 discretionary choice, but we're trying 504 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,640 to get in the in the best way possible 505 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,360 for our city. Um, we've talked with 506 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:40,799 planning commission twice about this 507 00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:42,240 already. So, they provided a lot of 508 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:43,520 input. If you were able to look through 509 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,000 the packet, you could see all the input 510 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,520 they provided as well as the state 511 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,080 requirements. That was exhibit A here. 512 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,600 Um the staff initially came up with uh a 513 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,960 proposed code for for this new state 514 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,840 requirement that was exhibit B. 515 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,679 And so I'll just go through I'll just 516 00:18:01,679 --> 00:18:03,280 skip through that. If you have any 517 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,000 questions, let me know. Um we took it to 518 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,880 the planning commission and they brought 519 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,440 in this holiday city code that is 520 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,240 focused on detached ADUs and everything 521 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,640 that the city of Holiday does. And so 522 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:17,919 the planning commission ended up 523 00:18:17,919 --> 00:18:19,919 recommending a lot of elements from this 524 00:18:19,919 --> 00:18:22,559 code. Um, and that was in their motion 525 00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:26,799 that's right here. Um, so 526 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:29,600 what I tried to do is just go ahead and 527 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,200 kind of use a lot or most of what the 528 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,720 planning commission recommended. There 529 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,640 were some things I I still personally 530 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,080 didn't agree with, so I didn't include 531 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,840 them. But that's that's why it's a 532 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,640 discussion. uh we want to be open to to 533 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,320 everyone's suggestion and ultimately 534 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,120 come up with the best solution. So this 535 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,960 is what I've kind of come up with mixing 536 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,120 the the original staff proposal and then 537 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:53,600 the planning commission recommendations. 538 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,000 Um so we have a definition for what a 539 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,679 detached ADU is. This is just straight 540 00:18:57,679 --> 00:19:00,000 from the state code. So we're just copy 541 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,320 pasting there. Um I have a definition 542 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,880 for living space here. So this was one 543 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,120 of the the hot topic points between 544 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,440 staff and planning commission. Um, at 545 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,000 least me, I I feel like detached ADU 546 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,440 should be based on living space, not 547 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,600 footprint. That's my opinion. I think it 548 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,760 keeps them smaller. Um, keeps them more 549 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,799 accessory feeling. Um, doesn't allow 550 00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:22,640 second home type feels to go on 551 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,440 properties. Um, planning commission 552 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,320 recommended doing footprint instead. So, 553 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:29,760 looking for input on that from the 554 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,440 council. Um the planning commission 555 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,760 recommended we have a purpose statement 556 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,840 at the beginning of the ADU code which 557 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,600 is 314. And so that's what this is. Um 558 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,600 adding these in obviously just as the 559 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,520 titles for the internal and detached 560 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,919 ADU. So we separated it out. So internal 561 00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:50,880 will now have its own section here. Um 562 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,559 so we change took this line from here 563 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:54,720 and put it down here. 564 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:55,200 Um, 565 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,640 >> so Katie, can we do a footprint and then 566 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,000 a total square footage? Also, 567 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,600 >> I think that could be an option as well. 568 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,120 I mean, the main reason I don't like the 569 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,799 footprint is because if someone's trying 570 00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:10,880 to reconstruct their already existing 571 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,640 accessory garage and it's over the the 572 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,799 allowed footprint or the allowed square 573 00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:19,760 footage for an ADU, then I think it's 574 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,640 kind of dead on arrival. um it doesn't 575 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,360 allow them to update that garage. Um so 576 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,600 that's why I favor the living space. But 577 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,840 >> could we also talk about living space 578 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,799 and then yeah lot coverage instead of 579 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:33,679 footprint? 580 00:20:33,679 --> 00:20:34,960 >> Can we go through all of them though and 581 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,799 then figure out where the points of 582 00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:37,840 conflict are? 583 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,520 >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's go through all that. I 584 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,039 think I think that was kind of the happy 585 00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:42,240 medium we were trying to find with the 586 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,840 planning commission suggestion. So, um, 587 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,240 so here in number five, we we wanted to 588 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,480 add this into the internal section to 589 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,080 make sure the internal ADUs also have 590 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,640 this regulation of 90 days. Um, and 591 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,559 there's one for detached as well. I know 592 00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:58,240 that council member Rumbler sent me an 593 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,000 email about this specific language. Um, 594 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,000 if it maybe needed a little bit more 595 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,320 detail to to determine that, that's 596 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,320 something that we can talk about as 597 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,000 well. Um maybe we'll just do it when we 598 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,159 come up on it down here. Brent, if you 599 00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:17,840 want to bring it up. Um so yeah, so here 600 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,080 is the actual detach ADU code. It's 601 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,320 314030. 602 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,000 Um 603 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,840 so I had these two tables in here 604 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,840 because there was originally staff 605 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,400 proposed just since the state is only 606 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,280 requiring us to have 11,000 square feet 607 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,240 lots or larger to have ADUs allowed. 608 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,840 That's what we originally proposed as 609 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,720 staff planning commission thought that 610 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,159 any lot size could have an ADU. That's 611 00:21:44,159 --> 00:21:46,159 what they origin 612 00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:50,000 for the recommendation. And so um so 613 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,280 actually this number sorry this should 614 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,120 be zero. This should not be 300. This 615 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:55,120 should be zero to 10,000 10,000 to 616 00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,919 20,000 20 40 and 40,000 plus. So the 617 00:21:57,919 --> 00:21:59,039 planning commission came up with the 618 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:01,919 idea of we should allow all lots to have 619 00:22:01,919 --> 00:22:03,520 an ADU as long as they meet all these 620 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,520 requirements. So that was that was 621 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,400 something that we ended up and I and I 622 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,559 think that's fine as as the planner. I 623 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:12,799 think you know the more property rights 624 00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:15,120 the better usually for most people. So 625 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,120 um and what they wanted to do is um 626 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,559 between 0 and 10,000 the maximum square 627 00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:23,440 footage you should have is 800. Um and 628 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,440 then all all these going down. So your 629 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,280 ADU can be a little bit bigger as your 630 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,640 lot size is bigger. Again I think it 631 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,320 should be living space. They want it to 632 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,840 be footprint. I think it should be 633 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,679 living space, but that's just that's 634 00:22:35,679 --> 00:22:36,559 just my opinion. 635 00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,280 >> The reason um you know when you describe 636 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:40,799 living space, I can see people saying, 637 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:43,200 "Well, I've got a huge office and then 638 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,200 I've got living space and it's still 639 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,440 incorporated." And you know, we've seen 640 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,799 throughout the years people kind of 641 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:50,960 circumventing that. So, that's why I 642 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,559 have an issue with living space. I 643 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:54,320 understand what you're saying, 644 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,159 >> but how that's going to be interpreted 645 00:22:56,159 --> 00:22:58,880 and stretched is my concern, 646 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,400 >> especially with when you consider if 647 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,320 they want to put a garage on this ADU. 648 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:02,640 Yeah, 649 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,159 >> that's just going to make it that much 650 00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:04,559 bigger. 651 00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:06,720 >> Yeah. So, you could do a garage, a home 652 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,559 office, 653 00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:11,440 >> and then living space, 654 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,520 >> because a office wouldn't be considered 655 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,000 that. 656 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,200 >> So, yeah, listen to the planning 657 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,320 commission, it made it sound like they 658 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:17,360 just want to limit 659 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,840 >> Yeah. the total coverage on the lot, 660 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,520 >> the 661 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,159 foundation. 662 00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:24,400 >> That kind of makes sense to me. 663 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,120 >> Yeah. 664 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:27,360 >> I don't want these massive second homes, 665 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:31,039 especially on a halfacre lot. 666 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:32,400 They still have to meet the 667 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:33,200 >> Kaden from 668 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,240 >> I don't know if we're getting Oh, go 669 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:34,640 ahead. 670 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,000 >> What? You go ahead. 671 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,039 >> I don't know if we're getting a little 672 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:39,600 sidetracked, but to Carla's point, what 673 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,960 were they talking about, could uh the 674 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,919 what could we like you said have like a 675 00:23:45,919 --> 00:23:47,520 both where they have to satisfy two 676 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,080 criteria. So, if they meet the lot 677 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,840 coverage criteria because they don't 678 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,919 have a giant home or they don't have a 679 00:23:53,919 --> 00:23:56,159 sevencar garage already on their lot, 680 00:23:56,159 --> 00:23:58,640 but so that would sort of it would meet 681 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,679 both. So if they haven't overbuilt p, 682 00:24:01,679 --> 00:24:03,840 you know, using that phrase loosely. 683 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:04,400 Yeah. 684 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,720 >> And they and they meet the in the living 685 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,240 space criteria 686 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,159 >> like then go ahead. But if you've 687 00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:13,120 already overbuilt, then you're sort of 688 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,240 you can't add any more space anyways. 689 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,760 >> You know what I'm saying? So to your 690 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,400 point where if you divide an existing 691 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,480 garage and half of it living and half of 692 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,640 its car, you haven't increase the 693 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,039 footprint, right? So if we if they're 694 00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:29,919 working on two different criteria, do 695 00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:31,440 you know what I'm saying? To allow for 696 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,279 what you're saying, but also to prevent 697 00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:35,279 with what Carla saying. That's kind of 698 00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:35,600 >> Yeah. 699 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,000 >> How two different two different criteria 700 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,400 to for two different problems. 701 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,799 >> Okay. That was just thinking through 702 00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:44,080 what you guys are both saying. 703 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,320 >> Okay. 704 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,679 >> Oh, just quick clarification what they 705 00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:48,799 were talking about. What Kayen, when 706 00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:51,120 you're saying living space, are you are 707 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,880 you meaning square footage of the entire 708 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,080 structure? No, just the living area. So, 709 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,039 not the garage. 710 00:24:57,039 --> 00:24:58,240 >> Not including the garage. Not including 711 00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,919 an office. Okay. So, I was 712 00:24:59,919 --> 00:25:00,960 >> Well, actually, I don't know about the 713 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,880 office. That's I I haven't heard of 714 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,320 that. Is the office not usually included 715 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,600 in living space? 716 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:06,480 >> I don't know. I would think 717 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,480 >> that's something I've never heard of. 718 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,520 >> Okay. So, so you're 719 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:10,320 >> that's how people 720 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,919 >> So, when you're saying what you prefer 721 00:25:11,919 --> 00:25:15,520 is you prefer um looking at the living 722 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,720 space, not just the foot. 723 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,159 >> That's codes I've seen is the 724 00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:19,919 >> and and no one is using just total 725 00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:21,600 square footage. 726 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,960 >> Well, I think it probably people are 727 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,200 using both. Yeah. Um, but what I've seen 728 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,039 is I mean at least where I came from, 729 00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:28,799 Wasach County, a lot of people have huge 730 00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:30,799 garages and they have a,200 square foot 731 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:33,360 area for the ADU inside that garage. 732 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:35,279 >> I'll save it for the end when we chat by 733 00:25:35,279 --> 00:25:36,559 them. I'm pretty sure people would care 734 00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:38,080 most. They won't care whether it's a 735 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,919 garage or a 736 00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:41,919 >> uh office or they'll care about their 737 00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:44,080 views and their neighbors encroachments 738 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,880 and the high density whe square footage 739 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,760 total might take care of that, but I'll wait. Yeah, 740 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,279 >> I do think what Carla is saying though 741 00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:53,679 is people like um would build a a garage 742 00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:55,600 and then call it an office above. 743 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,360 >> So if it doesn't meet the criteria of 744 00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,760 living like without I forget is it a 745 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,520 sink or toilet? I can't remember what 746 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,200 the criteria is to make it living 747 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,039 >> and they just call it office then that's 748 00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:08,400 a a way to say well so living and office 749 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,880 like we we'd probably just need to 750 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,799 >> um zero in on some of the language and 751 00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:14,799 we'd be fine. Could we not include 752 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:17,279 office as part of like the definition of 753 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:20,400 living space? Because I would assume 754 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,480 >> I I I would that's me though. Yeah. So 755 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,080 >> like I think the planning commission was 756 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,360 saying like if we allow 1,200 foot uh 757 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,520 footprints then that means someone could 758 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,120 have a second story with another 1,200 759 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:34,960 feet. Then we have a 2400 square foot 760 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,520 ADU on a property. I just was thinking 761 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,279 that we wanted to avoid that but 762 00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:41,039 >> and a basement right they can go down 763 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:41,279 too 764 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,000 >> technically. Yeah. So, I mean, someone 765 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000 could have a 30,000 foot ADU on their 766 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,000 property if they just as long as their 767 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,080 footprint is only 1,200. And so, I just 768 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,000 thought that was excessive. That was me. 769 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,600 >> Thank you for that suggestion. 770 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,870 >> Makes sense. 771 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,400 » Okay. Um, number three was just about 772 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,799 definitions of owner occupancy. Uh, 773 00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,039 number four, so this was when we got 774 00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:07,039 into maximum lot coverage, and I I think 775 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:09,440 it uh it's a good idea uh that we could 776 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,240 look at. Um, 777 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,360 one issue with it is just we don't have 778 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,840 lot coverage elsewhere in the code 779 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,039 except for in the TR10,000 zone and so 780 00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:22,480 we're only going to implement lot 781 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,320 coverage for ADUs maybe seems a little 782 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,880 bit arbitrary but um but I think it 783 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,240 could also be good depending on how we 784 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,600 do it. So um yeah, so they suggested 785 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,840 these percentages with with the size of 786 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,840 lot um so that's what we have there. 787 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,279 Correct me if I'm wrong, Kaden. Already 788 00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:41,279 in our TR10,000, don't we already have a 789 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:44,000 50% lock coverage? So that 790 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,120 >> Yeah, that's the only one that we have 791 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:45,760 lock coverage. 792 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,799 >> Okay. I was just looking at the 793 00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:49,919 percentage here, maximum says 35. I just 794 00:27:49,919 --> 00:27:51,440 >> Yeah. So that would have to be that 795 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,960 would have to be addressed. Um that 796 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,760 discrepancy there. Um the other issue I 797 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,000 saw with this too is just again 798 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,679 administratively it could be difficult 799 00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:01,760 to figure out exact percentages of how 800 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,399 much lot coverage they have uh with all 801 00:28:04,399 --> 00:28:05,919 the structures on there. Usually people 802 00:28:05,919 --> 00:28:07,520 when they submit they might not show 803 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,880 every single thing they have on their 804 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,640 property, every structure. So 805 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,760 >> what is the what is the 806 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,640 >> some work for staff? 807 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,399 >> What is the benefit of including this as 808 00:28:14,399 --> 00:28:15,919 opposed to just a square footage 809 00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:17,679 requirement based on the lot size that's 810 00:28:17,679 --> 00:28:19,679 going to limit or living space or 811 00:28:19,679 --> 00:28:21,039 whatever we decide? 812 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:22,480 >> I think that would be sufficient to 813 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,039 limit 814 00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:24,480 >> and and that's what we originally 815 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,640 proposed as staff but planning 816 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,240 commission thought this was this was 817 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:29,200 better. 818 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,240 >> Um 819 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,399 >> well they saw that H holiday did it so 820 00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:34,159 that's why Allan 821 00:28:34,159 --> 00:28:36,480 >> Yeah. So, 822 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:37,279 >> so yeah. 823 00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:40,000 >> Did Holiday also have a square footage 824 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,600 restriction? 825 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,679 >> Yes, that's part of how this table was 826 00:28:43,679 --> 00:28:44,159 formed. 827 00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:46,159 >> Yeah, I can tell you because I live in 828 00:28:46,159 --> 00:28:49,120 Holiday that they have a an impervious 829 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,640 surface 830 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,159 requirement depending on your lot size. 831 00:28:54,159 --> 00:28:55,919 >> If you try to put in a pickle ball court 832 00:28:55,919 --> 00:28:58,000 and you've already got a long driveway 833 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,559 and you've got an accessory structure in 834 00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:04,240 a home, it may be difficult. So they're 835 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,720 kind of going down that path as well. 836 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,320 >> So Kaden, is there a way to do this 837 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,279 where it's it needs to meet both or the 838 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:16,480 lesser of the two or how are we 839 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,919 >> um both? 840 00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:19,200 >> It has to meet this and the square 841 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,279 footage or is it whatever is 842 00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:22,399 >> that's that's the requirement the 843 00:29:22,399 --> 00:29:23,760 planning commission recommends. Yeah. 844 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,919 Has to meet both. What did they ever 845 00:29:25,919 --> 00:29:28,399 consider what um Steve has referenced 846 00:29:28,399 --> 00:29:30,480 where there's regardless of what you're 847 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,200 building there's a lot coverage 848 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,880 >> because then that it wouldn't we 849 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,360 wouldn't have a special something just 850 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,559 an ADU. 851 00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:40,320 >> So we like pull it out of the ADU 852 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,919 ordinance and just say everything is 853 00:29:41,919 --> 00:29:43,840 included in that. Yeah, like I said, 854 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,120 we're working into two different 855 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:46,480 sections of the code and 856 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:47,520 >> yeah, 857 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,200 >> and and I think and Jason was there like 858 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,600 I think they they were talking about 859 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,600 restricting the lot coverage to the main 860 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,159 structure and the ADU and then there was 861 00:29:58,159 --> 00:30:00,000 also some discussion of it's all 862 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,360 permanent structures and that's what 863 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,080 ended up in their in their motion. I 864 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,919 don't know if they intended it to be all 865 00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:09,200 permanent structures but that's what 866 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,799 John ended up saying. So if it is all 867 00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:14,159 permanent structures, we would have to 868 00:30:14,159 --> 00:30:16,320 see as staff reviewing these like pickle 869 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,240 ball courts, like everything, swimming 870 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,120 pool, everything they have in their 871 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,480 property that counts as a permanent 872 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,360 structure by definition. And then that 873 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:24,559 that's where it can kind of get 874 00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:26,159 complicated with lot coverage 875 00:30:26,159 --> 00:30:28,799 percentages for us to figure out, okay, 876 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:31,440 now they're bringing ADU, so now we have 877 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,440 to worry about lot coverage. So, like 878 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,799 you're saying, it could be beneficial to 879 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:37,200 just maybe adopt a a separate code 880 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,880 outside of the ADU that's all about law 881 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,399 coverage if we really want to go that 882 00:30:40,399 --> 00:30:40,799 route. 883 00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:42,480 >> And are we really going to have allow 884 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,919 ADUs with these percentages? That's the house and the ADU and 885 00:30:47,919 --> 00:30:50,080 potentially a permanent shed, nobody 886 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,760 will be able to build one. 887 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,440 >> I mean, a 25% lot coverage on a 20,000 888 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,480 foot property. That's I don't think 889 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,039 that's a reason. 890 00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:03,279 >> It gets close, I think. Yeah. I mean, I was looking at some properties. I 891 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:05,039 think I looked at some in that range and 892 00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:07,600 the house by itself was about yeah, 19 893 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,159 18 to 20%. And so, you think you can add 894 00:31:10,159 --> 00:31:11,919 an ADU. 895 00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:13,440 >> So, it just really depends on what 896 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,120 you're including in that percentage as a 897 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,000 permanent structure. 898 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,799 >> So, in that case, it's not all imperous 899 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:21,279 services, right? It just says um 900 00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:22,320 permanent structures. 901 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,200 >> Yeah. Because I mean one challenge with 902 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,039 impervious area, we don't we don't have 903 00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:31,039 people pull permits for doing concrete 904 00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:35,440 flat work. And so they could go over we 905 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,120 could approve something like in the 906 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,320 TR10,000 even with what we have now that 907 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,200 goes right up to the 50% 908 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,120 and they come in to get a permit for a 909 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,960 little shed or something and we find out 910 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,440 that they poured this huge concrete pad 911 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,320 out back that we had no idea about. and 912 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,000 they'd be in violation. 913 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:54,399 >> Can I ask? 914 00:31:54,399 --> 00:31:56,880 >> So, it's 915 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,760 >> the the impervious surface lot from what 916 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,880 I I Googled it like beyond holiday and 917 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,279 it it's more in the 60% range. So, these 918 00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:06,880 are very limiting because of the 919 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,600 structure reference where the impervious 920 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,080 surfaces are way more generous. So, 921 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,760 we're talking about two different things 922 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:14,159 here. 923 00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:15,360 >> And they didn't they didn't intend to 924 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,799 put pickupball courts, but if it's if 925 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:18,720 it's a shed that can't be moved, then 926 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,720 that would be included. But if it's a 927 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,399 >> temporary shed that you could dis 928 00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:24,640 Michelle Shurmer said some cities say if 929 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,679 it can be 930 00:32:25,679 --> 00:32:28,000 >> taken down in 24 hours it doesn't count. 931 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,919 >> So I have one of those in my yard that I 932 00:32:29,919 --> 00:32:32,480 can laughed and said with an excavator 933 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,840 almost anything can be 934 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,000 >> So because these are dwelling or or 935 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,440 permanent like you're saying it we're 936 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,600 not even talking about flat flat 937 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,679 concrete. That's a completely different 938 00:32:41,679 --> 00:32:43,200 section of their code which is 939 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,200 impervious surface and it's way more 940 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,080 generous. It's 60% of the lot. Can I 941 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,399 just because we had that water 942 00:32:50,399 --> 00:32:52,320 presentation a few weeks ago, we're 943 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,760 talking about land use through the lens 944 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,760 of water like permeable versus 945 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,880 impermeable. I noticed in holidays um 946 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,039 they talk about like how why they 947 00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:03,039 require that it has to do with water. I 948 00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:04,240 don't know if anyone could speak to that 949 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,919 or if that's a conversation for another 950 00:33:05,919 --> 00:33:08,399 day, but I'm just curious how you know 951 00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:10,799 if we have all these permeable surfaces, 952 00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:14,080 how does that affect the water? Just 953 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,840 throwing that out there. I do think it's 954 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,519 a topic that would take a whole 955 00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:19,600 different study session, but 956 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,799 >> that's what I'm trying to say is like 957 00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:22,640 we're talking about two different 958 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,720 measuring sticks, right? Impervious 959 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,640 surfaces are bigger, way bigger than 960 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,159 what you're showing here. 961 00:33:28,159 --> 00:33:29,519 >> Yeah, 962 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:31,039 >> we probably should go on, huh? Right. 963 00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:32,960 And then hit the big topics limited 964 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:33,679 time. 965 00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:36,320 >> Okay. Um, yeah. So, maybe just on this 966 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,440 if we want clarification on what this 967 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,399 means like from from the council, it 968 00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:43,600 doesn't have to be right now. Maybe it's 969 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,279 just through an email. just what you 970 00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:46,320 think about that, what that should be. 971 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:47,600 >> Those percentages are appropriate 972 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,519 because they kind of came up with I 973 00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:51,279 think John came up with 974 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,519 >> I know they're somewhat related to what 975 00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:55,279 Holiday had and so they kind of just 976 00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:57,360 rounded those numbers, but 977 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,519 >> Holiday kind of does a 3%. It's a much 978 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,200 more robust table, but they rounded that 979 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,559 out from the holiday table. Okay. Um, so 980 00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:08,320 number five, we the state allows us to 981 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,520 restrict one ADU per property. And so we 982 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,200 feel like that probably is best practice 983 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,800 for our city. If someone already has an 984 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,440 internal ADU, they can't have another 985 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,800 ADU as a detached. Um, and we'll figure 986 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,240 out how we how we're going to monitor 987 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:24,639 that. Um, 988 00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:26,480 uh, occupancy shall either be one 989 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,760 individual or should comply with the 990 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,119 definition of family. So this was a 991 00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:30,879 suggestion from the planning commission 992 00:34:30,879 --> 00:34:32,720 to make sure we say like who can 993 00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:34,320 actually live there and family defines 994 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,720 it as you know blood relatives whatever 995 00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:38,320 family might be or for unrelated 996 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,839 individuals. So we figured that would be 997 00:34:39,839 --> 00:34:42,320 good. Um number seven is the same one as 998 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,560 before that shouldn't be rented for less 999 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,200 than 90 days. Um did you want to talk 1000 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,240 about this one a little bit more? 1001 00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:50,240 >> Just real quick. So the holiday example 1002 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:52,159 that that Allan found and and was using 1003 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,320 it had a 30 consecutive day requirement 1004 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,560 which is standard. You know, a lot of 1005 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,160 times people rent monthtomonth and 1006 00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,920 that's 30 days at a time. 1007 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:01,760 >> So they the planning commission I can't 1008 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,200 remember why they chose 90, but they 1009 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:03,920 chose 90. 1010 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,520 >> The state allows them to do 90. That's 1011 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:06,800 why they did it. Yeah, I think. Yeah. 1012 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,880 >> So yeah, I guess that could potentially 1013 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,680 limit uh short-term rentals in some way. 1014 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,040 We already have a statute or an 1015 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,480 ordinance against that. 1016 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,520 >> Um I would just suggest that if we do 90 1017 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,440 days, 1018 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,359 most people want to do monthtomonth at 1019 00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:25,119 least. Um well sometimes landlords or or 1020 00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:27,359 tenants want to do monthtomonth. So 1021 00:35:27,359 --> 00:35:31,119 maybe if we just clarify it and say an 1022 00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:33,520 initial 1023 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,400 90 90 days and then it could go to 1024 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,839 monthto month after that. to make it 1025 00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:40,400 clear and Steve 1026 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,000 your thoughts. I can interpret this. I 1027 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,359 think I can reasonably interpret this 1028 00:35:45,359 --> 00:35:47,200 that that your initial lease term could 1029 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,560 be 90 days and then every subsequent 1030 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,160 lease term would have to be 90 days 1031 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,000 under the statute instead of reverting 1032 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,920 to monthto monthth. So maybe you sign a 1033 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,599 year lease and then from there it goes 1034 00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:58,240 to monthto month. I would just suggest 1035 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,320 clarifying that just to indicate that it 1036 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,160 can be monthtomonth after an initial 90 1037 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,720 days if we want to stick with 90 days. 1038 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,119 Any thoughts or is that you think that's 1039 00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:09,359 clear enough? 1040 00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:11,280 >> I think it's probably clear enough, but 1041 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,359 if we need to clarify it, we can. That's 1042 00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:13,920 fine. 1043 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,680 >> I understand the concept. 1044 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,720 >> Um, it's rented or offered for rent. 1045 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,640 >> Yeah, I I see where you're coming from. 1046 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:23,760 So, maybe we ought to clarify. 1047 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,200 >> Is this easy to clarify? You might as 1048 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,880 well make it abundantly clear when you 1049 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,359 have the chance. 1050 00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:28,480 >> Sure. 1051 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,440 >> Yeah. 1052 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,520 >> I like less than 90 day. I mean, I like 1053 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,440 it no less than 90 days because even if 1054 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,599 it's like monthto month afterwards, I 1055 00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:36,880 don't know. And I feel like this is 1056 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,640 pretty generous because a lot of cities 1057 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,400 it's six months or more. 1058 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,000 >> No, that's that's fine. I just want to 1059 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,680 just I'm okay with 90 days. 1060 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,240 >> Even if we just put the word initial for 1061 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:47,920 offered for 1062 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:48,960 >> an initial term 1063 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,280 >> initial term of no less than 90 days. 1064 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,720 >> Yep. Exactly. That's what I that's what 1065 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:53,920 I recommended to them. 1066 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:54,160 >> Okay. 1067 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,680 Okay. That's it. 1068 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,880 >> Okay. Number eight. Um, so the state 1069 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,760 statute allows us to just to just have 1070 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,000 one on-site parking space provided for 1071 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,680 the ADU. 1072 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,240 Um, but we can have two. So we we 1073 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:12,320 recommend that probably two is is best 1074 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,000 in our car ccentric society. Um, but 1075 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,400 there is the catch that if we allow ADUs 1076 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,880 for smaller than 600, 1077 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,920 ADUs that have 650 square feet or less 1078 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,760 only are required to have one per state 1079 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,760 statute. So, we'll make that clear in 1080 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,800 the code as well. Um, 1081 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,320 so here's the setbacks and height 1082 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,520 question, which is probably everyone's 1083 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,560 biggest concern. So, 1084 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,000 we feel that it could it it probably 1085 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,520 will work just fine uh for the detached 1086 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,359 accessory dwelling units with all these 1087 00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:47,680 other restrictions to also just meet the 1088 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,599 same setbacks and height restrictions as 1089 00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:51,119 those for accessory buildings in the 1090 00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:53,520 zone. Um, I know some people do a little 1091 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,720 bit different uh different requirements 1092 00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,640 for ADUs specifically than that, but um 1093 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,680 I I feel that if an an accessory 1094 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,520 building can be 15t away from the rear, 1095 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,599 10 feet from the side, and then if it 1096 00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:09,359 wants to go higher than 20 feet tall, it 1097 00:38:09,359 --> 00:38:11,680 has to have a bigger set pack. I feel 1098 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,560 like that makes sense. Um, and then for 1099 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,040 the height, yeah, it can be 20 feet 1100 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,040 tall. And if they want to have a taller 1101 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,119 ADU like 25 feet, it has to have another 1102 00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,440 10 feet of setback from both sides. So 1103 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,040 to me, that just made sense and it makes 1104 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,720 it easier to administer when we're 1105 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:29,520 looking at these. Um, but anyone that 1106 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:30,480 has thoughts on that? 1107 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:31,920 >> Did they say in the planning commission 1108 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,400 that 20 feet you cannot have a twotory 1109 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,960 building with a 20 foot building height? 1110 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,720 >> So that's why they they recommended 25 1111 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:39,520 ft. 1112 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:40,400 >> 24. 1113 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,599 >> Yeah. So 1114 00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:43,680 >> yeah, they recommended was it 24? 1115 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,000 >> I think it was I thought it was 25, but 1116 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,640 >> one of those two. Yeah. And and I I 1117 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,200 think that could be good if the council 1118 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,720 thinks that's a better option for 1119 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:54,960 restricting the height to 25. Again, the 1120 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,160 reason why I don't think it's good is 1121 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,359 because one, our code already allows 1122 00:38:57,359 --> 00:38:58,720 them to go to 30 if they have an extra 1123 00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,520 10 feet of setback, which I don't see an 1124 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,480 issue of an extra 5t tall if you're 1125 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,960 going 10t back from both ways. I think 1126 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,200 that you're getting farther and farther 1127 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:09,920 from the property. 1128 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,599 >> So, Kaden, I do think we need to look at 1129 00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:13,839 that. I do feel like um especially what 1130 00:39:13,839 --> 00:39:17,119 we've seen in um our city with people 1131 00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:18,960 building not just ADUs but just 1132 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,920 accessory units on the property and 1133 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,320 going all the way up to 34 feet. Even if 1134 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,560 you go back 10, you know, even if you go 1135 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,119 back as you go increase your height, I'm 1136 00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:32,560 wondering if we should seriously look at 1137 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,960 um just capping off any kind of 1138 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,640 accessory units, whether it's a dwelling 1139 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,720 unit or not, and just have a maximum 1140 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:40,960 height of maybe 25. 1141 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,839 Um, you know, I know Andrew is um 1142 00:39:43,839 --> 00:39:45,520 concerned about view corridors. I think 1143 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,119 that would kind of help if, you know, if 1144 00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:48,640 we look at that and then we would be 1145 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,040 consistent whether it's an ADU or an 1146 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,280 accessory unit. Granted, there's some 1147 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:54,800 out there that are higher, but maybe 1148 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,240 moving forward that's what we could do 1149 00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:58,560 to protect our residents in that way. 1150 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,839 >> Yeah, that's a really good idea. 1151 00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:03,599 >> Yeah, we're definitely open to that as 1152 00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:06,960 staff. We've talked about that. So, um 1153 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:07,440 Oh, go ahead. 1154 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,440 >> Okay. And should I just mention I know 1155 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,400 some communities do this if an ADU is 1156 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,240 going to be if there's going to be 1157 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,359 living space on the second floor that 1158 00:40:17,359 --> 00:40:19,920 which is going to be above any fence uh 1159 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,440 that they have you can't have windows on 1160 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,040 certain sides or you can't have windows 1161 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,480 within so many feet of the property line 1162 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,720 so that it's not somebody looking right 1163 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,520 down into your into your home or your 1164 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,359 yard if you're too close if you built 1165 00:40:35,359 --> 00:40:36,400 right to the set point. 1166 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,800 >> Oh yeah. So, something something to 1167 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,760 consider, but it's not it's not required 1168 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,280 in the statute. 1169 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,720 >> And I'll I'll comment on that, too, 1170 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:46,079 because that's something we did think 1171 00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:48,320 about as well, because that is in our 1172 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,240 code currently for certain accessory 1173 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:51,680 buildings that want to be just 2 feet 1174 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,119 away from the property line. They can't 1175 00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:55,200 have any openings on the on the side 1176 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,359 closest to the property line. The reason 1177 00:40:57,359 --> 00:40:59,119 why it ended up not in here is just 1178 00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:00,560 because we feel like the setback is deep 1179 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,200 enough that I mean you'll you'll be 10 1180 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,760 feet away and 15 feet away from the rear 1181 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,960 if you're 20t tall if and which is maybe 1182 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,520 a two-story building. If you're 25 ft 1183 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,040 you're again you're an extra 10t away. 1184 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,480 So it just seemed like it was deep 1185 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:15,920 enough away that you're not going to be 1186 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,520 peeking in the neighbor's yard anyway. 1187 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,760 But that's a thought council can 1188 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,240 consider too. 1189 00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:26,560 Okay. Um, 1190 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,000 let's see. So, number 11, we the state 1191 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,480 code allows us to do this and we feel it 1192 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,560 is good for our city that the accessory 1193 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,319 dwelling units be built with materials 1194 00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:37,920 or design that match those of the main 1195 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,079 dwelling, provide consistency with the 1196 00:41:40,079 --> 00:41:42,480 look and feel of our city. Um, number 1197 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:43,760 12, they follow international 1198 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,079 residential and building codes. Um, 1199 00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:47,760 number 13, they shall connect to the 1200 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,880 same meter as the main dwelling. Um and 1201 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,720 if there's not sufficient capacity, it's 1202 00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:54,560 prohibited. That's a that's a big one 1203 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,280 for our systems. Um and then again, 1204 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,119 international res residential and 1205 00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:02,079 building codes. That might be a 1206 00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:03,520 repetition of 12. We'll have to look at 1207 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,839 that. Um 1208 00:42:05,839 --> 00:42:07,839 and then we have to provide a provision 1209 00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:10,480 to allow legally constructed accessory 1210 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,280 structures to convert to ADUs. So that's 1211 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,960 what 15 is trying to fulfill. Um the the 1212 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,640 we're proposing that the accessory 1213 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,119 structure shall comply with all the 1214 00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:25,119 requirements in this in this section 1215 00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:27,920 essentially. Um height, size, lot 1216 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,760 coverage, design, etc. Um and and if 1217 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,680 they do, then then these accessory 1218 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,040 buildings that are currently existing 1219 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,839 can have a conversion process. Um there 1220 00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:39,440 was some discussion in the planning 1221 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,440 commission about having outside of even 1222 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,280 this just having an exception process 1223 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,760 for accessory buildings that currently 1224 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,680 exist um that don't meet these 1225 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,000 requirements. I personally feel like 1226 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,599 they they should meet these requirements 1227 00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:52,560 if we're going to allow them to have an 1228 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,040 ADU. So I I thought we shouldn't have 1229 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,599 that in there, but just so you know. 1230 00:42:57,599 --> 00:42:59,280 >> Um 1231 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,720 okay. And then number 16, 1232 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,240 uh there's going to be an accessory 1233 00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:06,079 dwelling unit permit process. Actually, 1234 00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:07,520 Mara and our building department and 1235 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,440 Jenny are managing that currently with 1236 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,560 any accessory apartments that we have. 1237 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:18,400 Um, but we're going to make sure that process is shored up and is clear 1238 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,319 and so that we can get those repeated 1239 00:43:20,319 --> 00:43:22,160 numbers every year for the for the state 1240 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,839 with moderate income housing. Um, so and 1241 00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:29,839 then that that kind of also relates to number 17. We want them to fill out 1242 00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:32,319 the ADU registration rental license 1243 00:43:32,319 --> 00:43:34,720 renewal uh that we'll provide every 1244 00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:36,560 year. Um and they'll only need the 1245 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,079 rental license uh fee if they are 1246 00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:41,520 actually renting. If they're just doing 1247 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,040 it with family, not renting, then they 1248 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,760 won't need to pay that fee. 1249 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,280 And that is the end. 1250 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,920 >> Thank you. If you guys have any Thank 1251 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,680 you, Kayen. If you guys have any input, 1252 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,200 please um emails. 1253 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,160 So we're not going to discuss further. 1254 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,920 >> I have 1255 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,079 >> Yeah, if you do it quick 1256 00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:06,640 >> one question was um 1257 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,000 >> Holiday had a 200 foot minimum ADU DADU 1258 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,040 detach ADU. 1259 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:11,359 >> Yeah, 1260 00:44:11,359 --> 00:44:14,319 >> the planning commission said 300 square 1261 00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:15,040 foot minimum. 1262 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:15,920 >> Correct. 1263 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,880 >> So um I'm okay with 300 too and I don't 1264 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,800 know how that would be pretty small. 200 1265 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,200 feet, but that's that didn't make its 1266 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,960 way in here. But you'll you'll add that 1267 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:25,280 in 1268 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,880 >> I think. Yeah. And I I think that was 1269 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,480 just me uh not putting that in, but I 1270 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:29,359 think that is our intention. 1271 00:44:29,359 --> 00:44:31,440 >> I guess I got that 300. 1272 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,880 >> I put it in the wrong location. Yeah, 1273 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,560 >> exactly. So that's another thought is 1274 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,480 the minimum size they recommend was 300 1275 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,119 feet, which I have no issues with. 1276 00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:40,079 >> Okay. 1277 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:42,079 >> And then wasn't there a provision that 1278 00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:44,000 if you have 1279 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,920 >> an attach or an a current ADU, attached 1280 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,000 ADU or whatever, that you can't have a 1281 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:50,560 detached. 1282 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,640 >> Correct. So, I have an apartment in my 1283 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,040 basement that was built by the previous 1284 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,839 owner, but I've never rented it out. 1285 00:44:57,839 --> 00:45:00,079 I've My my son is and my wife are in 1286 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:01,040 there right now, but I don't charge them 1287 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,400 any rent. So, I don't have a permit or 1288 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,319 anything. It's just our living space. 1289 00:45:04,319 --> 00:45:06,240 Does that preclude me from having a 1290 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:07,680 detached ADU? 1291 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,359 >> I've never I mean, the previous owner 1292 00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:10,160 had one. 1293 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,520 >> They had renters and they did the 1294 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,200 permits, but I never have. 1295 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,359 >> I don't How do you How do you do that? 1296 00:45:15,359 --> 00:45:17,200 >> Yeah, I mean, that that's a good 1297 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,760 question. And I think there it might be 1298 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,200 difficult maybe to manage every 1299 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,560 situation like that, but 1300 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,000 >> I could take the door off and it's not 1301 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,359 no longer a separate apartment. 1302 00:45:25,359 --> 00:45:26,079 >> Well, yeah, 1303 00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:27,839 >> I think if you do that then it wouldn't 1304 00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:29,680 be and then you could have an AU. But I 1305 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,640 don't think you can have more than one 1306 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,599 >> Yeah. 1307 00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:35,200 >> Oh, yeah. More than one rent, I guess. 1308 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,760 So I if I if I build the detached one, I 1309 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:38,560 can't rent out 1310 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,920 >> accessory unit. 1311 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,359 >> If he has like a kitchen in his 1312 00:45:41,359 --> 00:45:42,960 basement, can he have one of these or is 1313 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:43,839 that disqualify it? 1314 00:45:43,839 --> 00:45:45,040 >> I have three two kitchens in my 1315 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:45,280 basement. 1316 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,119 >> Okay. So say is he disqualified then? Is 1317 00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:48,640 that is that make him So I think the way 1318 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,480 it's currently written, yes, 1319 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:51,680 >> you'd be disqualified. Yeah. 1320 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,520 >> Yeah. I mean, I I would I would rather 1321 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,200 say you could only use you can only use 1322 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,319 one or the other. 1323 00:45:56,319 --> 00:45:59,040 >> You can't have both at the same time. 1324 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,000 >> I think with the license required for an 1325 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000 ADU. 1326 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,319 It it I think it could go that 1327 00:46:06,319 --> 00:46:08,160 direction. We're not going to license 1328 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,160 you for two, right? We'd license you for 1329 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:10,400 one. 1330 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,000 >> You could see because they only allowed 1331 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,560 to be licensed for one. So I wouldn't be 1332 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,079 not that I plan to. I don't. 1333 00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:18,480 >> Yeah. I I I wouldn't be procluded if I'm 1334 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,680 choosing not to use my 1335 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:20,240 >> I don't 1336 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:21,680 >> accessory apartment just because it was 1337 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,040 built that way by a previous owner. 1338 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:24,640 >> Yeah. I don't think there's a huge issue 1339 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,319 with that. I mean obviously someone 1340 00:46:26,319 --> 00:46:28,079 could always take advantage and rent 1341 00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:29,760 both and we can't manage that. That that 1342 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,440 would be the only issue I think 1343 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,280 >> become a code compliance. 1344 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,880 >> Yeah. It become a co code compliance. 1345 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,240 >> Most of the United States runs on 1346 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,119 honesty. So we need people to be honest. 1347 00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:41,119 >> Yeah. So 1348 00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:42,000 >> um Sarah. 1349 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,000 >> Okay. I'll just try to go through really 1350 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,200 quickly the things that like maybe are a 1351 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:48,800 little bit should we do this or that? 1352 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,040 Um, first of all, are the setbacks the 1353 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,400 same as a primary structure? Is that 1354 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,359 what was determined 1355 00:46:53,359 --> 00:46:54,720 >> as an accessory structure? 1356 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:56,400 because I know 1357 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,839 during planning commission they talked 1358 00:46:57,839 --> 00:46:59,920 about maybe having the setbacks match 1359 00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,720 the primary structure which 1360 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:05,119 >> I guess just in my limited experience I 1361 00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:06,720 feel like maybe having it match the 1362 00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:08,880 primary structure would be better in my 1363 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,280 opinion. Um, another thing is, 1364 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,960 um, I like the 20 foot tall but a max of 1365 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,200 25 feet. I like having that max. Sorry 1366 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,599 if I misspoke. I guess it is 25 instead 1367 00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:22,880 of 24. 1368 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,760 >> Um, and then 1369 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,640 uh structure size. I I do agree with 1370 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,480 Jeff Davis on planning commission that 1371 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,599 anything less than 1100 11,000 square 1372 00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:35,760 feet should not be allowed to have an 1373 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,079 ADU. Personally, that's kind of I mean 1374 00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:39,599 the state allows for that. That's where 1375 00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:40,000 I say 1376 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,520 >> that that was a big one. So, we should 1377 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:42,400 probably discuss that one. 1378 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,560 >> I agree with her and Jeff and 1379 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,280 >> so the so the smaller lot should not 1380 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,520 it's not that I don't I'll wait till I 1381 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:49,920 zones. 1382 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,680 >> I thought they voted seven to zero to 1383 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,599 approve their recommendation that it 1384 00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:54,319 should be on 1385 00:47:54,319 --> 00:47:55,920 >> No, they did. They did. I think they 1386 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:56,160 were 1387 00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,960 >> saying that you don't agree with just to clarify the state requires us to 1388 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,079 permit them in all residential zones, 1389 00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:06,640 but if a lot is 1390 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,960 >> under 11,000 square feet, they don't 1391 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,440 mandate that an ADU be permitted. 1392 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,520 >> Oh, so 1393 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,760 it can be in a 10,000 square foot zone, 1394 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,400 but if it's not 11,000 square feet, you 1395 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,599 don't qualify unless you unless the city 1396 00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:24,160 says you do. So you you can you have 1397 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,280 that discretion to make it less than 11. 1398 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:28,319 >> We can go above. 1399 00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:28,640 >> Yeah. 1400 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,079 >> So I'm not trying to discriminate 1401 00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:32,319 against zone, but just maybe lot size, 1402 00:48:32,319 --> 00:48:34,400 like if it's less than 11,000 square 1403 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,440 feet. [laughter] 1404 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,880 >> Um I I know that the Utah League of 1405 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,119 Cities and Towns said that 12,000 square 1406 00:48:41,119 --> 00:48:43,119 feet for a detached ADU was a little bit 1407 00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:44,720 on the larger size. So that was just 1408 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:45,920 something that I didn't know if other 1409 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,920 people had considered. I do like the 1410 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,760 dimensions being proportional to the lot 1411 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,599 size. I do like thinking about living 1412 00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:54,079 space versus footprint, but I also think 1413 00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:56,319 that we have to take into consideration 1414 00:48:56,319 --> 00:48:59,119 living space and lot coverage and I 1415 00:48:59,119 --> 00:49:01,040 would love it if we could adopt a lot 1416 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,839 coverage for all the zones. Um, I think 1417 00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:05,839 that would help with this and it would 1418 00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:10,319 just help in general moving forward. Um, 1419 00:49:10,319 --> 00:49:12,640 and then I as far as lot coverage, what 1420 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,800 should it include? It sounds like 1421 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,680 anything that's permanent. I'm I'm in 1422 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,520 favor of that. Um, I like the rental 1423 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,240 term of 90-day minimum 1424 00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:25,920 uh parking. Agree that there should be 1425 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,880 four total off- streetet parking. Um, 1426 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:31,359 sorry, 1427 00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:32,319 >> for the ADU, 1428 00:49:32,319 --> 00:49:35,520 >> two for the ADU and yeah, 1429 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,359 >> and 1430 00:49:37,359 --> 00:49:38,800 then I'm just trying to think really 1431 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,640 quick about if there's anything else. 1432 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,359 And so, right now, do we require a 1433 00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:46,000 rental license for people with Okay, so 1434 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,960 we'll still do that. Okay. Um 1435 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,720 >> that's that's one of the ways we've 1436 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:53,040 tracked uh to meet our moderate income 1437 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,760 housing is through those licenses. 1438 00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,920 >> Oh, that's great. 1439 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,000 >> Yeah. And then I sorry uh one last 1440 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,000 thing. Um I does this mean we can get 1441 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,599 rid of the secondary structure but 1442 00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:05,680 connected with the same roof clause. Is 1443 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,160 that I mean is there have we revisited 1444 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,000 that because now 1445 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,440 >> I mean maybe that's a discussion for 1446 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,079 another day but probably we can hash out 1447 00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:17,040 later but um it definitely contributes 1448 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,760 to this conversation so 1449 00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,119 >> something we're considering. 1450 00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:22,800 >> I just let me just look back through my 1451 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,839 notes really quick. Um 1452 00:50:25,839 --> 00:50:28,160 uh the percentages for coverage of all 1453 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,559 structures. I don't know. I would love 1454 00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:32,559 some more expert input on those 1455 00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:34,400 percentages if you agree with those or 1456 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:35,680 if you feel like those should be 1457 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,359 different and 1458 00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:39,440 >> sorry which ones the lot coverage ones. 1459 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,359 >> Yes, 1460 00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:44,319 but I mean you can I don't know if you 1461 00:50:44,319 --> 00:50:47,520 want to discuss now or later but 1462 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,880 that was just one other question. 1463 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,640 >> Yeah, I mean I guess my initial thought 1464 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,400 is just what exactly is included since 1465 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:53,839 it wasn't fully clarified by the 1466 00:50:53,839 --> 00:50:55,839 planning commission. Um what what's 1467 00:50:55,839 --> 00:50:57,119 included in that coverage is that's what 1468 00:50:57,119 --> 00:50:58,800 we would want to really make sure we 1469 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,040 know. Okay. And then would you just like 1470 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,440 us to email all this to you as well? 1471 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:04,079 Yeah. Would that be 1472 00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:05,359 >> feel free to send me everything and it 1473 00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:06,800 will help me because we still have to 1474 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,720 get the formal recommendation from the 1475 00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:09,920 planning commission before this will 1476 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:10,640 come before you. 1477 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:10,960 >> Okay. 1478 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:11,359 >> Yeah. 1479 00:51:11,359 --> 00:51:12,880 >> Chrissy, 1480 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,160 >> mine are similar um to what Sarah said. 1481 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,559 I from these conversations, I'm seeing 1482 00:51:18,559 --> 00:51:20,720 four offshoot 1483 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:22,240 ordinances that we probably could 1484 00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:25,440 address in another way that wouldn't be 1485 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,200 included here, but would address 1486 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,119 concerns that have been brought. One is 1487 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:30,880 lot coverage, one is height, one is 1488 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,440 permeable surfaces, and the other one is 1489 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,920 the remodel ordinance that we've talked 1490 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,839 about, you and I, and I've shared with 1491 00:51:37,839 --> 00:51:40,400 Sarah. Those are my top four. I can 1492 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,200 email them to you as well. Um, I did 1493 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,559 want to share that, um, when doing the 1494 00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:48,720 Main Street guideline open houses, there 1495 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:51,359 was a lot of, um, angst over high 1496 00:51:51,359 --> 00:51:54,319 density housing. And so, um, hearing 1497 00:51:54,319 --> 00:51:56,480 from the National Organization for like 1498 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,720 the middle, the missing middle housing, 1499 00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:01,680 the how this sort of fills, um, a need 1500 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,480 in our community without highdensity 1501 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,880 housing, which is adamantly opposed by, 1502 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,359 um, our residents. And so, I feel like, 1503 00:52:09,359 --> 00:52:11,440 uh, the state came forward and like made 1504 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,920 this possible. And then it's up to us to 1505 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,480 make it liveable, right? And so, I feel 1506 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,319 like we've made a lot of progress in a 1507 00:52:18,319 --> 00:52:21,040 short amount of time. And I do hope that 1508 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,920 we see more young people moving in as we 1509 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,319 just did our demographics. So, um I'm 1510 00:52:26,319 --> 00:52:28,319 supportive of the general concept and 1511 00:52:28,319 --> 00:52:29,520 thank you for all the hard work and 1512 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,440 putting all this together and thanks to 1513 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:32,960 the planning commission as well who 1514 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,760 thoroughly went over these things. 1515 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:36,960 >> Hey Chrissy, that's the end. 1516 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,040 >> Um I didn't get a chance to comment on 1517 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,400 the on the planning commission's 1518 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,800 recommendation that it be allowed on in 1519 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,079 the 10,000 foot lot zone. I guess it's 1520 00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:47,119 going to be allowed in the zone, but the 1521 00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:51,040 lot size. Um, I personally think that it 1522 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,800 should be allowed based on but it has to 1523 00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:01,040 be limited based on the the use and and the foot either either footprint or 1524 00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,720 the square footage requirements. I don't know why we should discriminate 1525 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:06,319 against a lot owner just because their 1526 00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:08,000 lots a little bit smaller. And that's 1527 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,000 what the planning commission thought and 1528 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,559 that's what they cited with Holiday. um 1529 00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:14,800 as long as it's reasonable and we can 1530 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,800 use that reasonleness based on that 1531 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,480 those limitations. So I was just curious 1532 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:19,839 about what your thought Chris 1533 00:53:19,839 --> 00:53:21,280 >> Yeah, the same. I I feel like you said 1534 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,079 the conservative the conservative nature 1535 00:53:24,079 --> 00:53:25,839 of our public would want us to be able 1536 00:53:25,839 --> 00:53:30,480 to use the land that we own and but also 1537 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,640 conserve views and not encroach on 1538 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,319 neighbors. So that's our job is to make 1539 00:53:34,319 --> 00:53:35,280 it liveable which 1540 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,359 >> exactly. So 15 guidelines 1541 00:53:37,359 --> 00:53:38,400 >> so a 300 foot 1542 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:39,119 >> address many things 1543 00:53:39,119 --> 00:53:41,760 >> right. So a 300 foot ADU on a 10,000 1544 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,720 foot lot may may be appropriate in the 1545 00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:45,760 parameters that we set, 1546 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:46,079 >> right? 1547 00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:47,760 >> Yeah. But I feel like, you know, one of 1548 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,359 the things that makes our community so 1549 00:53:49,359 --> 00:53:51,680 great is that we don't have the 1550 00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,720 transiency of this. And so the more you 1551 00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:58,079 open it up, um 1552 00:53:58,079 --> 00:53:59,040 >> I don't know how many people are going 1553 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,880 to want to give up their backyards to 1554 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:02,160 put in one of these, but 1555 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,079 >> I think I think there's people lining up 1556 00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:05,200 already. Yeah. 1557 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:06,000 >> No, I 1558 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,119 >> very 1559 00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:09,280 >> um having had I do have an ADU with 1560 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,040 people that are not family living in it 1561 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,200 and you're very selective about who 1562 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:14,880 you're going to share your space with 1563 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,000 and um I do feel like that uh it opens 1564 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,040 the door to a couple of things that 1565 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,400 maybe are beyond the scope of this 1566 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,400 conversation, but for young families 1567 00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,800 trying to to afford a house, they need a 1568 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,960 second income to to reduce the cost of 1569 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:34,079 the mortgage. So, um, and you're very, very careful about who you have 1570 00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:36,240 live in your same home or even in close 1571 00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:38,960 proximity to you. I don't think and the 1572 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,640 reason we we don't allow them to rent 1573 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,880 the home and an ADU in the same property 1574 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,599 internally or externally that prevents a 1575 00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:47,280 lot of the the problems that you would 1576 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,920 see in a high rental population. 1577 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,040 >> And just the last thing that I didn't 1578 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:52,720 get a chance to bring up before Andrew, 1579 00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:55,040 sorry, Andrew is a resident brought up 1580 00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:56,800 right before our meeting the idea of 1581 00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,880 impact fees. Can you just address 1582 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,640 whether are we going to be do we need to 1583 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,640 put that in the ordinance that these 1584 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,800 DADUs 1585 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,640 can generate impact fees because it's 1586 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,319 creating another residence, more sewage, 1587 00:55:08,319 --> 00:55:10,480 more water use, more road use? 1588 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:11,359 >> That's a good point. 1589 00:55:11,359 --> 00:55:13,520 >> I don't think we can. My understanding 1590 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,240 is because it's 1591 00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:17,200 >> I thought we could. 1592 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:18,960 >> Specifically in the law when the state 1593 00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,240 forced cities to allow internal ADUs, 1594 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:24,000 they said you can't charge an impact 1595 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:24,480 fee. 1596 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,359 >> You said cannot. 1597 00:55:27,359 --> 00:55:28,960 Lehi was 1598 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,800 >> and that got shut down. 1599 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:31,760 >> What about external? 1600 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,400 >> I'm not sure on this, but do you know? 1601 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,880 >> My understanding was that also could 1602 00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:37,760 not. 1603 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,119 >> Yeah, I've gone through exhibit A pretty thoroughly and I haven't seen 1604 00:55:41,119 --> 00:55:42,400 that in here, but 1605 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,119 >> but they're having you by the same meter 1606 00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:47,440 and then if it the capacity is there 1607 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,119 then they cannot. 1608 00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:50,880 >> But when I was speaking with the state 1609 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,119 legislators, they were saying no, you 1610 00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:54,480 can't do that. 1611 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:55,599 >> We'll verify it. 1612 00:55:55,599 --> 00:55:57,920 >> Okay. Just one other thing to throw in 1613 00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,119 the mix here. Steve, did you have a 1614 00:55:59,119 --> 00:55:59,760 comment? 1615 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,319 >> I just So, we had a meeting with TSSD on 1616 00:56:02,319 --> 00:56:06,240 impact fees and they said we should 1617 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:07,920 >> I know they think we should 1618 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,480 >> we should we would love to we would love 1619 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,359 to increase ones 1620 00:56:13,359 --> 00:56:15,680 increase on water increase on 1621 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:16,960 everything. 1622 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,880 >> But I legally I don't think we're 1623 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:20,640 allowed to. But yeah, students, we can 1624 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,160 look at that. That would be awesome. I 1625 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:23,760 wanted to just throw in yesterday at 1626 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,640 LPC, apparently there's a movement in 1627 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:28,319 the legislature 1628 00:56:28,319 --> 00:56:31,760 um that would require cities to allow 1629 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,200 6,000 square foot lots in any zone that 1630 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,109 >> require 1631 00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:40,720 allowable. 1632 00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:43,040 >> It's early, but that's 1633 00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,280 >> I think the governor coming out saying 1634 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,119 everything's not working. The housing, 1635 00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:49,040 you know, it's not increasing. I don't 1636 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,119 know if this is the next step, but 1637 00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:52,240 that's what they call 1638 00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:54,240 >> pack them in tighter 1639 00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:54,720 >> and 1640 00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:56,160 >> we all we all know our legislator's 1641 00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:56,720 phone number 1642 00:56:56,720 --> 00:56:59,520 >> the way I and they're suggesting talk to 1643 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,359 your legislators now. So 1644 00:57:03,359 --> 00:57:04,880 >> well I'll go quick. I love the things 1645 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,400 the mayor said. See we we get on the 1646 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,559 side. Isn't that great? Okay. So um this 1647 00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:10,000 is where I'm looking at this but just to 1648 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,680 clarify one quick thing. The 1649 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,280 conservative land owners want open 1650 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:14,720 space. So just to clarify that's why 1651 00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,200 Wyoming these open spaces Missouri like 1652 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,440 Utah like that they're there for open 1653 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,359 space. So anyways um so we're coming at 1654 00:57:23,359 --> 00:57:25,119 this we're coming at this from one of 1655 00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:27,200 the main cities that doesn't allow this. 1656 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:28,799 When we go to Utah League cities one of 1657 00:57:28,799 --> 00:57:30,559 the only few they're like whoa wait a 1658 00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:32,960 minute we don't even allow this to going 1659 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,319 like diving into the deep end. So I we 1660 00:57:36,319 --> 00:57:38,559 can always make this more loosey goosey 1661 00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:40,880 over time and more and more open and 1662 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,880 sure this and that. I I I would 1663 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,400 encourage us to go as restrictive as 1664 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,160 possible so we can inch into this and 1665 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,359 see how a couple work take time. I mean 1666 00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:51,119 there's two Andrews right now. One of me 1667 00:57:51,119 --> 00:57:53,280 is like, "Oh my gosh, I can make so much 1668 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,319 money by putting these on properties." 1669 00:57:56,319 --> 00:57:57,760 And the other and the other half is, 1670 00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,799 "Wait, don't ruin Alpine. This 1671 00:58:00,799 --> 00:58:03,200 potentially can can destroy everything 1672 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,599 that 50 years of people like the mayor 1673 00:58:05,599 --> 00:58:08,240 have done such great work to uh preserve 1674 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,799 it. So this is the biggest high density 1675 00:58:10,799 --> 00:58:12,880 or densifying thing that's ever come 1676 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:14,880 before us. And so I would go as strict 1677 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,880 as restrictive as possible just at the 1678 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,640 beginning and we can always loosen it 1679 00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,359 up. Um I think we should look at a 1680 00:58:21,359 --> 00:58:23,040 couple examples. We have a we have an 1681 00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,119 expert Steve Doxy, Mr. Doxy from 1682 00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:26,640 Holiday. Maybe we should go on a tour 1683 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:27,920 with him and check out how some of them 1684 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:29,040 are working. I know we have a couple in 1685 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,280 Alpine uh one up north. We've got one 1686 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,119 off of Alpine Boulevard. We might look 1687 00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:34,240 at them and then we'd be like, "Okay, 1688 00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,240 how high is that?" We can get a fill. 1689 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,079 How close is that? we can get a feel for 1690 00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:41,280 if these numbers because I think we're taking a stab in the dark with 1691 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,440 these numbers. Um so I'm in favor of 1692 00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,440 nothing below 11,000 square feet. I 1693 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,359 think it's too risky right now. The 1694 00:58:47,359 --> 00:58:49,680 90-day minimum. Um even if people want 1695 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,839 to do monthtomonth, I I don't think we 1696 00:58:51,839 --> 00:58:54,480 want month-to-month renters. We want 1697 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,960 permanent family land owners. And when 1698 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,880 kids can't afford that, we teach them 1699 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:00,400 how to work hard so they can afford 1700 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,720 that. We This isn't a place for people's 1701 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:04,000 first This is what residents always tell 1702 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,680 me. This isn't a place for people's 1703 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,520 first home. This is a place where after 1704 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:08,799 they've worked their guts out for years 1705 00:59:08,799 --> 00:59:10,160 and years and years and they finally are 1706 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,799 able to move here. If we change that to 1707 00:59:12,799 --> 00:59:15,359 be for everyone, it very much quickly 1708 00:59:15,359 --> 00:59:17,200 changes. So, so there's another method 1709 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,520 and that is to empower young people to 1710 00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,359 make enough so that they can live here, 1711 00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:23,680 own property. Um, anyways, so that 1712 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,359 that's it. I would go as big of setbacks 1713 00:59:25,359 --> 00:59:28,240 as we can and and all this is to dement 1714 00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,720 uh detriment to myself because I I 1715 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,880 really want these personally, but I know 1716 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:34,240 there's something better and that is 1717 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,799 Alpine's future. So I think go as 1718 00:59:36,799 --> 00:59:38,799 restrictive as possible, as small as 1719 00:59:38,799 --> 00:59:41,760 possible and limit as much as possible 1720 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,920 and then we see how it goes and go from 1721 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,319 there. Thanks. 1722 00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:48,799 >> Okay. So just to wrap up, please take a 1723 00:59:48,799 --> 00:59:50,160 look at those exhibits, especially 1724 00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:51,440 exhibit D because that's where we're 1725 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:53,119 sitting right now. We've had a lot of 1726 00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:54,720 discussion. Just email me everything 1727 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,839 about those 17 code numbers that you 1728 00:59:57,839 --> 00:59:58,960 like, don't like, what you want to 1729 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,710 change, and then we can 1730 01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,160 » Okay. um consideration for PI bonding. 1731 01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:14,789 Oh no, number C. Um the plat amendment 1732 01:00:14,799 --> 01:00:18,319 » Kaden will actually present that. 1733 01:00:18,319 --> 01:00:20,400 >> Okay. So I know there's the council has 1734 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,680 been informed about uh about this. So 1735 01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,280 the purpose of this discussion was just 1736 01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,000 to consider options for the occupation 1737 01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,040 or disposition of city property. Um, so 1738 01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,480 the the Smith family uh has has this 1739 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:35,920 property right here in the box elder 1740 01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,119 subdivision. Um, they're hoping to build 1741 01:00:39,119 --> 01:00:42,079 a 8- foot tall wall according to city 1742 01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:45,920 ordinance, 10 ft back. Um, but because 1743 01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,880 of the nature of the property and our 1744 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:52,319 pump dedication here, uh, they feel like 1745 01:00:52,319 --> 01:00:55,119 they need to use some of the space that 1746 01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:57,359 is on city property to build that wall 1747 01:00:57,359 --> 01:00:58,960 effectively. and they can correct me if 1748 01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,880 I'm saying this wrong. Um, but uh, so as 1749 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,480 you can kind of see in this image here, 1750 01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,319 the wall would go into the city 1751 01:01:06,319 --> 01:01:08,720 property, probably go along this this 1752 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,520 concrete walk-in for the pump, uh, and 1753 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,359 then go back out of city property and 1754 01:01:13,359 --> 01:01:15,200 follow their side property line. 1755 01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:16,960 >> So, why can't it go along the property 1756 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:21,109 line? 1757 01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:22,480 » Or, if you can come up and state your 1758 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:27,510 name. 1759 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,599 My name is Greg Smith and I'm one of the 1760 01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:32,000 owners of this property. So, in order 1761 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,799 for a uh sound wall to be effective, it 1762 01:01:34,799 --> 01:01:37,599 needs to be continuous. If we don't if 1763 01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:39,839 we stop it with the property line as it 1764 01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:42,640 is now, that leaves about a 14 1/2 ft 1765 01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,520 gap, okay, where that noise can just 1766 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,079 shoot right through into our master 1767 01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:50,000 bedroom window right there, which is in 1768 01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,799 the front of the house. Um, so we we 1769 01:01:52,799 --> 01:01:54,960 need we need the we need the uh wall to 1770 01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,960 be continuous. It needs to cover that 1771 01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:57,920 bit of ground right there. 1772 01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,559 >> Can you not curve it so that it it is 1773 01:02:00,559 --> 01:02:03,589 continuous? 1774 01:02:03,599 --> 01:02:08,559 » Um, may I show you some pictures? Okay. 1775 01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,160 >> Me? 1776 01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,880 >> No. Go like this way. No, he's saying 1777 01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,799 that he can't do it. But Brent, like 1778 01:02:14,799 --> 01:02:17,599 this. Come from here and go like this. 1779 01:02:17,599 --> 01:02:19,440 >> A continuous line. 1780 01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,200 >> But not go into our property. 1781 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:22,720 >> Oh, like this right there. 1782 01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,799 >> Just like if you go and just go. It 1783 01:02:24,799 --> 01:02:26,799 could be curved. 1784 01:02:26,799 --> 01:02:29,359 >> Um, it really couldn't be curved and and 1785 01:02:29,359 --> 01:02:32,319 maintain a a a sound barrier. I mean, it 1786 01:02:32,319 --> 01:02:34,640 would it could become a continuous, you 1787 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,000 know, fence line, but it would be so set 1788 01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,920 so far back that it wouldn't have any 1789 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,920 effect on defeating the the road noise. 1790 01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,640 So, it's our proposal that we we 1791 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,559 actually would like to acquire that bit 1792 01:02:48,559 --> 01:02:51,040 of property that's not being used by the 1793 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:52,640 city. It looks like it's part of our 1794 01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,640 front yard. It's been, you know, we've 1795 01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,240 been there for 21 years. We've been 1796 01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:57,920 mowing the lawn. We've been taking care 1797 01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,680 of it. Um, there's about a thousand foot 1798 01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,760 uh in that notch, you know, what comes 1799 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:09,920 out of our what would otherwise be our our our lot. And the city's only 1800 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:11,599 using a little over half of that. So, 1801 01:03:11,599 --> 01:03:14,240 there's about 470 square feet there 1802 01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:19,200 unused. we'd like to acquire. Um 470, 1803 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,640 you know, square feet is 0.01 acre, 1804 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,359 right? So, not a big not a big chunk of 1805 01:03:25,359 --> 01:03:27,920 property. I realize that that's, you 1806 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,319 know, it's complicated because it is 1807 01:03:30,319 --> 01:03:32,240 city property and disposition of city 1808 01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,359 property is a big deal. Um maybe messy, 1809 01:03:35,359 --> 01:03:37,520 but we really need it. We're getting so 1810 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:41,280 much noise. Um I I just give you I'll 1811 01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:42,799 give you just a bit of an explanation on 1812 01:03:42,799 --> 01:03:49,200 these pictures here. So, the hot pink um 1813 01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,599 tab Yeah. markers, those those are the 1814 01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:52,880 property line. There's some other 1815 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:54,640 markers in there that are from blue 1816 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,960 stakes. Okay. But that's that shows you 1817 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:00,079 how close to the house um that the city 1818 01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:01,520 property comes. And we didn't we didn't 1819 01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,039 know that. We had no reason to suspect 1820 01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:06,720 that when we bought the house. Um, so 1821 01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,039 but now and now with the increase in 1822 01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:12,000 traffic that we've experienced, um, you 1823 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,000 know, there were I think there were only 1824 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,480 18 Helms when we moved in Boxelder 21 1825 01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,720 years ago and now Boxelder has been 1826 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:20,079 built out and there's a whole new 1827 01:04:20,079 --> 01:04:23,280 subdivision independent of that. Um, you 1828 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,200 know, the traffic has gotten so bad that 1829 01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,359 uh we we need a ball there and it needs 1830 01:04:27,359 --> 01:04:30,000 to it needs to it needs to cover that 1831 01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,000 space. Um, otherwise it's not going to 1832 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,000 do us any good. We have a a contractor 1833 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:35,280 who we work with. He's a great 1834 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:40,000 contractor. Um but we we don't want to go ahead and 1835 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,000 leave a gap there. It's not going to do 1836 01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,960 us any good to build this without 1837 01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,359 >> Shane. Was this your item or was it 1838 01:04:47,359 --> 01:04:48,720 Kaden? 1839 01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:49,920 >> Okay. Kayen, did you have anything else 1840 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:51,119 you wanted to add? 1841 01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:53,200 >> Um no, I think that's it. Well, I guess 1842 01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,200 just to clarify, so Greg, are you 1843 01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:56,960 talking about this area right here is 1844 01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,200 what you would prefer to acquire from 1845 01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:00,240 the city? 1846 01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,319 >> Yeah. Is that what you're saying? 1847 01:05:02,319 --> 01:05:04,799 >> So, I had sent we had sent Shane an 1848 01:05:04,799 --> 01:05:06,559 email before. So, there's there's kind 1849 01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:09,760 of a bit that's east of that walkway and 1850 01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,039 there's a little bit that's north of the 1851 01:05:11,039 --> 01:05:13,119 pump house. We would of course leave the 1852 01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:15,359 city, you know, the over roof overhang 1853 01:05:15,359 --> 01:05:18,400 and everything, but uh we'd like we'd 1854 01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,520 like to pick up about 470 square feet 1855 01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:23,680 out of that thousand square feet. 1856 01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:25,039 >> Okay. So, it would go behind the 1857 01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:25,760 building as well. 1858 01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,079 >> It would go behind as well. Yeah. 1859 01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:30,000 >> So, yeah. So, I guess as city staff, 1860 01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:31,440 we're just looking for for direction 1861 01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:32,640 from the council whether there's 1862 01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,799 interest in in disposing of this 1863 01:05:34,799 --> 01:05:36,400 property or just allowing some sort of 1864 01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,799 easement or encroachment of some kind. 1865 01:05:38,799 --> 01:05:40,480 And there's a PowerPoint that I put in 1866 01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:44,559 this uh in this packet that if that you 1867 01:05:44,559 --> 01:05:46,319 can go through if you didn't just to 1868 01:05:46,319 --> 01:05:48,480 kind of explain what this is all about 1869 01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,240 that been talking about. 1870 01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,839 >> It was really nice. Thank you. 1871 01:05:53,839 --> 01:05:55,680 looking at the pictures. Um I know 1872 01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,680 they're not on the screen, but there 1873 01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,400 seems to be a retaining wall, 1874 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,880 >> right? That's the white house. Yeah. 1875 01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:04,880 >> And so the retaining wall would remain 1876 01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:05,680 no matter what, 1877 01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:06,960 >> right? Yeah. We would just 1878 01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,839 >> And you build the retain the your your 1879 01:06:09,839 --> 01:06:12,160 wall above the retaining wall. 1880 01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,079 >> No, no, we would just come right up to 1881 01:06:14,079 --> 01:06:16,000 the right up to that retaining wall with 1882 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,160 our soundproof wall and then we could 1883 01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,000 build around it. 1884 01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,799 >> Then not on top of it. 1885 01:06:22,799 --> 01:06:23,520 Yeah. 1886 01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,160 >> And and and to follow behind um to 1887 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:27,920 follow behind the pump house as well. 1888 01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,680 >> And is it crossing your driveway? 1889 01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,359 >> What's that? 1890 01:06:31,359 --> 01:06:32,720 >> Are you going to have a an opening for 1891 01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,160 your driveway? 1892 01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,480 >> Right. We would make some gates. 1893 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:37,280 >> Gates. Okay. 1894 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,786 >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] 1895 01:06:40,786 --> 01:06:41,599 [clears throat and cough] 1896 01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:43,440 >> I have a personal experience with this. 1897 01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,599 My son lives along Kamehameha Highway, 1898 01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:47,760 which is one of the busiest highways on 1899 01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:51,920 the north shore of Aahu. and he has a um 1900 01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:56,079 a lava rock wall and he's maybe a little 1901 01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:58,400 farther than you but the wall really 1902 01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,839 does um limit the sound a great deal and 1903 01:07:01,839 --> 01:07:04,720 I he lived in a different home also on 1904 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,640 Kamehameha Highway without the rock wall 1905 01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,799 way like you could hear it no matter how 1906 01:07:08,799 --> 01:07:11,599 many how far away you wanted to be in in 1907 01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:13,680 his tiny little house which they build 1908 01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:19,119 tiny houses in Hawaii um for new people 1909 01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:20,799 not tourists like us, but people who 1910 01:07:20,799 --> 01:07:21,920 want actually want to live there, don't 1911 01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:23,440 have a lot of space to live in, but it 1912 01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:24,799 made a huge difference. So, I can 1913 01:07:24,799 --> 01:07:27,119 understand um I' I've lived I've seen 1914 01:07:27,119 --> 01:07:29,280 the difference personally. My main 1915 01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,119 concern though is um is 1916 01:07:33,119 --> 01:07:34,880 the purchase of the property and I think 1917 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,839 this was in Cadence slides um purchasing 1918 01:07:37,839 --> 01:07:43,599 versus an easement especially because I really am not comfortable selling the 1919 01:07:43,599 --> 01:07:45,520 property because of the close proximity 1920 01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,520 to the pump house. Well, 1921 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,280 >> so is the is there a reason why you 1922 01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,440 wouldn't just want to be able to build 1923 01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:53,760 on the property or and how would the 1924 01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,160 city feel about that? 1925 01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,039 >> Our our opinion, Will, is that we don't 1926 01:07:59,039 --> 01:08:00,799 know in another 10 years or maybe 1927 01:08:00,799 --> 01:08:02,880 another city council says, "Well, we we 1928 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:04,559 want to do something with that property. 1929 01:08:04,559 --> 01:08:06,880 If we have it, then they can't." Now, if 1930 01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,200 there's a need to expand, you know, the 1931 01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,359 pump house facilities, it's right there 1932 01:08:11,359 --> 01:08:12,960 on the edge of Lambert Park. In fact, 1933 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,760 there's like a a a 20 foot no man's land 1934 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,920 strip kind of in between us and Lambert 1935 01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:19,839 Park there that part of the hump pump 1936 01:08:19,839 --> 01:08:22,480 house is on. Um so there's plenty of 1937 01:08:22,480 --> 01:08:24,880 room for the city to expand to the west 1938 01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,400 if there should ever be a need to 1939 01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:30,880 increase capacity um there or to access 1940 01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:37,199 that pump house. So that that's why we would really prefer it. I I I if it's 1941 01:08:37,199 --> 01:08:38,880 okay, I'll just address I I understand 1942 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,600 there's an issue with when disposing of 1943 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,040 city property that you have to have an 1944 01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:45,279 auction. I don't think that that applies 1945 01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:49,040 here. You can't sell a 01 acre lot in 1946 01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,040 it. You know, in a neighborhood where 1947 01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:53,600 the minimum lock site is is 1 acre. So, 1948 01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:54,880 you know, I think we should be 1949 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,000 >> not just any lot. It's any parcel. So, 1950 01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,839 this is a parcel. Mhm. 1951 01:08:59,839 --> 01:09:01,520 >> If the council is going to consider 1952 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:03,440 selling it, my suggestion is to go 1953 01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:04,799 straight down the line. Instead of 1954 01:09:04,799 --> 01:09:06,799 having a weird square, they should just 1955 01:09:06,799 --> 01:09:07,679 go straight down. 1956 01:09:07,679 --> 01:09:09,920 >> I think selling is not the per preferred 1957 01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:10,640 option. 1958 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:12,719 >> And if that's not it, then are you 1959 01:09:12,719 --> 01:09:15,040 talking about a paid easement then? 1960 01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,040 >> I think she's going to let me address 1961 01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:17,600 >> what 1962 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:18,159 >> you 1963 01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:20,080 >> I would like to have staff tell us what 1964 01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:21,759 the options are because I I read the 1965 01:09:21,759 --> 01:09:23,359 PowerPoint and there's really no 1966 01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:24,560 recommendation. It's like these are the 1967 01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,839 options. I want to know what is the 1968 01:09:27,839 --> 01:09:30,080 public benefit of not selling it. What 1969 01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:31,759 is the public benefit of doing an 1970 01:09:31,759 --> 01:09:33,120 easement or what is the public benefit 1971 01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,279 of doing none? Because that's the main 1972 01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:37,040 thing is what's the public benefit. If 1973 01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:38,960 it's if there's no public benefit to not 1974 01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,839 selling it, I'm okay selling it. So I 1975 01:09:41,839 --> 01:09:42,799 just So 1976 01:09:42,799 --> 01:09:44,239 >> thank you very much. If you guys can sit 1977 01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:46,880 back down, that'd be great. 1978 01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,359 >> So what what Mr. Smith just said, his 1979 01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:51,199 concern is we don't know what the future 1980 01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:53,040 brings. That's our concern as well. We 1981 01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,040 don't know what the future brings. Um, 1982 01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,239 in the last 30 years, probably on one 1983 01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:00,320 hand, I can think of the properties that 1984 01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,400 the city has sold, and I wouldn't use 1985 01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,120 all my fingers. There's one that was 1986 01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,120 sold. It was a small piece of property, 1987 01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:08,960 like a little piece off of a property 1988 01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,440 that we owned on North Main Street. A 1989 01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:14,320 few years later, uh, a water line had to 1990 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:18,000 go in and we wish we had that property. 1991 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,000 >> And we recommended against it at the 1992 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,760 time, and it's with all due respect to 1993 01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,000 the residents. It's nothing about that. 1994 01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,640 It's just you don't really know what's 1995 01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:33,430 going to happen down the road. 1996 01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:36,239 » So, when we did the blue stakes, there 1997 01:10:36,239 --> 01:10:39,199 are no city utilities in this space. 1998 01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:42,480 None whatsoever. Actually, our our uh 1999 01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:44,560 gas line runs right along that line, but 2000 01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,880 there are no city utilities there. 2001 01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:48,480 >> I don't think we're talking about just 2002 01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:50,480 >> which was the case in this other case on 2003 01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:52,400 the AC property. there there wasn't 2004 01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,560 anything on it, but it was so tight when 2005 01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,080 we went to 2006 01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:57,520 >> do some work that 2007 01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,199 >> it impacted 2008 01:10:59,199 --> 01:10:59,679 >> what 2009 01:10:59,679 --> 01:11:01,040 >> I agree about. 2010 01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:02,960 >> So, how would the easement alleviate 2011 01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:04,320 that? if we did an easement, they put 2012 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:05,040 their 2013 01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:06,159 >> well on it. 2014 01:11:06,159 --> 01:11:08,640 >> I mean, Steve could comment on this, but 2015 01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,280 I would think if if it's if the city is 2016 01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,040 okay with an easement, but there was 2017 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,440 some kind of a clause that if the city 2018 01:11:15,440 --> 01:11:17,760 needed the property, 2019 01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:19,520 you know, we get it back or they have to 2020 01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,520 move their wall or whatever 2021 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:22,080 >> their cost. 2022 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,159 >> I think that's what we would recommend. 2023 01:11:24,159 --> 01:11:26,239 Yeah. If 2024 01:11:26,239 --> 01:11:27,920 >> you know, we to go 2025 01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,440 >> I would feel more comfortable with that 2026 01:11:29,440 --> 01:11:31,280 than 2027 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,950 total [clears throat] disposition. 2028 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:35,600 my turn. 2029 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:35,920 >> Yes. 2030 01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,040 >> Um I did email the public works some of 2031 01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:40,880 the guys there just to understand, you 2032 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,280 know, like they work and their concern 2033 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,120 was just like for future use with the 2034 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:46,719 pump house if we needed to expand the 2035 01:11:46,719 --> 01:11:49,120 pump house. So for me, I'm definitely 2036 01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,360 opposed to selling the property. I would 2037 01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,840 like to know um from Jason, do you have 2038 01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,000 any thoughts since you're the engineer, 2039 01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,040 you know, any foreseeable complications 2040 01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:05,030 with an easement or 2041 01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:06,480 Sorry to put you on the spot. 2042 01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:08,159 >> It's fine. I'm just trying to think with 2043 01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:12,000 the easement if if for me if we gave the 2044 01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,640 easement we would in the future if we 2045 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,560 needed it we'd have to take it back like 2046 01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,560 someone had said at their cost to take 2047 01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:20,480 the wall down to replace it to do all 2048 01:12:20,480 --> 01:12:24,159 that. Um 2049 01:12:24,159 --> 01:12:26,960 my previous career I've put pump houses 2050 01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:31,120 in. I've redesigned pump houses and I 2051 01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,520 would always say no one goes into a pump 2052 01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,080 house saying I wish this was smaller. So 2053 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,320 when we redesign pump houses most of the 2054 01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,480 time we go bigger just because we need 2055 01:12:40,480 --> 01:12:43,040 the space and usually when you redesign 2056 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,600 it you design it for more people for 2057 01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:49,920 more just space in there as needed. Um, 2058 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,239 and correct me if I'm wrong. If we do 2059 01:12:52,239 --> 01:12:55,280 choose to go in to Lambert Park, there's 2060 01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,400 whole other issues there, right? 2061 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,320 >> The conservation easement allowed the 2062 01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:02,880 city to build facilities in the park. 2063 01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:04,960 That was something that we felt like was 2064 01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,040 necessary from a public work standpoint. 2065 01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:09,360 So, that that provision is there. 2066 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,440 >> Wait, is it facilities or I thought it 2067 01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:16,400 was for utilities but not structures? 2068 01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:18,400 Um, 2069 01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:19,840 I can't remember how it's worded 2070 01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:21,360 honestly on that. 2071 01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,040 >> So, my understanding from what I 2072 01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,520 remember, Steve, was that it allowed for 2073 01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,800 utilities to go through and public like 2074 01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:31,199 public utilities and that the city 2075 01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:34,239 could, you know, work with that. But as 2076 01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:37,600 far as structures or hardscapes, 2077 01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:42,640 that would need a unanimous vote. 2078 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,320 >> Have to double check. 2079 01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,239 >> Do you remember Steve? have to double 2080 01:13:46,239 --> 01:13:47,520 check it. 2081 01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:48,239 >> Okay. 2082 01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:50,560 >> Well, he's looking for that. I mean by 2083 01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,880 today's standards that pump station is 2084 01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,920 very small and 2085 01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:57,679 the system for that was built for 2086 01:13:57,679 --> 01:14:00,159 boxelder which that was part of it has 2087 01:14:00,159 --> 01:14:02,320 had to be expanded 2088 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:05,199 um since the subdivision was built 2089 01:14:05,199 --> 01:14:07,679 because the division of drinking water 2090 01:14:07,679 --> 01:14:09,679 standards 2091 01:14:09,679 --> 01:14:12,320 uh changed required more storage 2092 01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:15,199 capacity and so all those things could 2093 01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:17,360 happen in the future and it's just hard 2094 01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,080 to know what you're going to need. For 2095 01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:21,360 sure. If we were building the pump 2096 01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,040 station today, it would not be that 2097 01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:23,840 size. 2098 01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:25,040 >> Right. Right. Right. 2099 01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:26,880 >> Um and then just I guess a follow-up 2100 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,440 question is like in general, how often 2101 01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:31,199 does a resident come asking for an 2102 01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:32,800 easement? Like is this a normal 2103 01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:34,239 practice? Is this 2104 01:14:34,239 --> 01:14:37,520 >> It's very rare here. I can't speak for 2105 01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:39,360 other cities, but in our city, it's been 2106 01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:40,560 very rare. 2107 01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,400 >> Yeah. 2108 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,199 Anyway, those are my thoughts. 2109 01:14:45,199 --> 01:14:46,800 I was curious, um, since you're talking 2110 01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,640 about enlarging the pump house, was that 2111 01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,440 ever in our list of projects, um, when 2112 01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:54,080 we've been talking about future projects 2113 01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:55,760 or is it routine or 2114 01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,760 >> It's It's been expanded once. When the 2115 01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:59,920 pump house was built, there was piping 2116 01:14:59,920 --> 01:15:03,040 put in there to have another It's like a 2117 01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,280 skid mounted pump system in there. Each 2118 01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,199 skid has three pumps. 2119 01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:09,760 >> U, we have added a second skid, which it 2120 01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,120 was plumbed for. Um there's just not a 2121 01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,120 lot of room in the building. 2122 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,520 >> No, my question was on with the Horox 2123 01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:19,199 study when they laid out all our 2124 01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:20,400 projects. 2125 01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:22,239 >> Was that ever included? 2126 01:15:22,239 --> 01:15:25,920 >> It was at one time, but then uh we had 2127 01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:27,920 we needed bigger boosters because our 2128 01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,280 tank was very small and then the new 2129 01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,239 tank was built for Boxelder South, which 2130 01:15:34,239 --> 01:15:36,880 also cured a problem in the old boxer 2131 01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,440 subdivision. And so I believe at that 2132 01:15:39,440 --> 01:15:43,760 time the the pump station upsize with 2133 01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:46,400 the fireflow pumps went away. I think 2134 01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,120 that's still the case in the today 2135 01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:50,719 >> because if it was in our plan then we 2136 01:15:50,719 --> 01:15:52,000 have a known 2137 01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,199 >> reason but at this point we don't we 2138 01:15:55,199 --> 01:15:57,840 have an it's still an unknown. 2139 01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:01,199 >> Yeah because of potentially changing 2140 01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:01,520 standard 2141 01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:02,960 >> but at one point it was in the plan. 2142 01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:03,440 Okay 2143 01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:05,120 >> there you asked about the conservation 2144 01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:07,920 easement. So the language is that the 2145 01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,920 public purposes allow for the 2146 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,159 construction and maintenance of critical 2147 01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:14,320 infrastructure including public 2148 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:16,640 utilities. So I would say this would be 2149 01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:17,040 allowed. 2150 01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,040 >> It would Okay. 2151 01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,199 >> Okay. Andrew just 2152 01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:23,520 >> very quick. Yeah. I I see the timeline. 2153 01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:27,360 Uh would you guys potentially be open uh 2154 01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:29,040 to and this is the council as well 2155 01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:30,239 because it sounds like the selling of 2156 01:16:30,239 --> 01:16:32,239 the land people are hesitant if there 2157 01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:34,080 was an easement and it had some sort of 2158 01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,320 agreement that if the city needed it you 2159 01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,880 had a buffer of three to five years 2160 01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,000 before uh anything could be 2161 01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:43,440 >> would that be something that would maybe 2162 01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:48,239 hit the middle and I I don't know if the council knows and staff the entire 2163 01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:52,239 genesis of this is uh goes back to the 2164 01:16:52,239 --> 01:16:53,920 dirt mode. 2165 01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:54,400 >> Okay. 2166 01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,280 >> No, everybody knows. Oh, you do know. 2167 01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:58,880 So, we're just trying to solve sound. 2168 01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,199 We're trying to solve sound. So, 2169 01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:02,480 >> that's that's my question. Would maybe 2170 01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:04,480 would you guys be open to an easement uh 2171 01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:06,159 with a 3 to 5 year stipulation that if 2172 01:17:06,159 --> 01:17:07,360 the city needs it back, we at least give 2173 01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:08,960 them a warrant. 2174 01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,280 >> Three to five years is a long lead time. 2175 01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:12,800 I would say, you know, 2176 01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:14,000 >> but would you be open to something like 2177 01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:14,480 that? 2178 01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:15,679 >> Or maybe, you know, but 2179 01:17:15,679 --> 01:17:17,360 >> imagine where it's like a day. 2180 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:18,800 >> A lot of the times if we're going to do 2181 01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:20,320 things, I don't know. Do you think 2182 01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:22,320 that's enough time? 2183 01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:23,280 That's 2184 01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,360 >> I would say that's long like six months 2185 01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,159 a year or two to a year 2186 01:17:28,159 --> 01:17:29,040 >> to me. I would say 2187 01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:30,800 >> well because put yourself in their shoes 2188 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,040 if they build a wall and then a day we 2189 01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:34,480 were like guess what 2190 01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:36,719 >> and so there might be a reasonable one 2191 01:17:36,719 --> 01:17:38,400 to two years where you know 2192 01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:40,400 >> I would say 6 months to a year but one 2193 01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:41,760 to two I think is a little long but you 2194 01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:44,080 know what that's move on we need to go 2195 01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:45,760 on to the next item. Um 2196 01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:46,880 >> thank you for the time. 2197 01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:47,280 >> Yes. 2198 01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:47,920 >> I think I 2199 01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:49,360 >> you want to say last one last thing? 2200 01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,000 Anything two or three would be whatever 2201 01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:54,000 the staff is more comfortable with. 2202 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:54,560 >> Let me just 2203 01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:56,560 >> So yeah, let's Thank you so much. We 2204 01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:57,440 appreciate your time. 2205 01:17:57,440 --> 01:17:59,840 >> May I say one more thing? Um I think 2206 01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,239 that if anyone actually built that close 2207 01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:03,760 to the house, 2208 01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,400 >> the value of the house would plummet. 2209 01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,560 And if you even if we had six months to 2210 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,040 a year to pull out of stakes and get 2211 01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,840 out, um you would have a blighted house 2212 01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:15,840 on your hands. I think it's in the 2213 01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:17,840 city's best interest not to turn that 2214 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,159 into a blighted home. 2215 01:18:20,159 --> 01:18:22,320 >> Okay. Thank you. 2216 01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:22,800 >> Okay. 2217 01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:23,840 >> Could I just ask mayor 2218 01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:24,800 >> GI projects? 2219 01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,080 >> Mayor, could I just ask what the next 2220 01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:27,440 steps are? No, it's just it's just 2221 01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:29,280 policy like so for what what do they do 2222 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,360 next because so we can help them? 2223 01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,000 >> What I would suggest and is maybe the 2224 01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,360 council get caden feedback uh if you 2225 01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:39,199 have additional thoughts after tonight 2226 01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:40,800 and then um 2227 01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:42,239 >> do they then push this for an agenda 2228 01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:43,600 item in a future meeting or how does 2229 01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:44,800 that work? would 2230 01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:46,480 >> we would do it. It'd be on us. Okay. 2231 01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:48,239 Yes. So, we can 2232 01:18:48,239 --> 01:18:49,760 >> do that. 2233 01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:52,320 >> It was Chrissy. 2234 01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:53,760 >> Okay. 2235 01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:54,960 >> Thank you for doing that. I think it's a 2236 01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,480 good topic. 2237 01:18:56,480 --> 01:18:56,880 >> Okay. 2238 01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,520 >> Mayor, what I suggest on the PI item, we 2239 01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,560 just cover it in council communications. 2240 01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:04,480 >> It's not an action item. It's it's 2241 01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:06,719 fairly brief. It's just discussing a 2242 01:19:06,719 --> 01:19:08,960 couple of projects along with projects 2243 01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:12,950 we've already discussed. 2244 01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,070 » Okay. 2245 01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:17,360 Let's see. We're trying. 2246 01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:19,040 >> Sorry, Mr. Burrow. Sorry you had to sit 2247 01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:21,440 through two one and a half hours. Okay, 2248 01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:23,120 you guys, work session's closed. We'll 2249 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,280 meet back at six o'clock for our council 2250 01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:27,440 meeting. 2251 01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:51,750 >> We're not talking about money. 2252 01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:55,000 Good luck.