1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,480 Thank you all for coming to the um Alpha Town Council special meeting and 2 00:00:06,319 --> 00:00:12,400 strategic planning retreat and I appreciate you're being here and we got 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:15,440 a lot to do. So, let's get on with our show. 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:20,080 » Fantastic. Thank you, Mayor. Hi everybody. I'm 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:23,279 Julie Dong and I I think we're all familiar with each other. It's great to 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:28,640 see you again and it's great to be here at beautiful Alta um with all of you 7 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:34,960 today. We have a lot to get done, so we might as well jump right in. Um, we're 8 00:00:31,279 --> 00:00:39,680 recording and videographing and um, all the things today for this meeting. So, 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:45,200 uh, we do have multiple recorders that will run the entire time and a 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:49,760 videographer here. Um, we'll have a moment uh, in a moment we'll all do 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:53,680 introductions and and expectations, but I just wanted to spend a moment talking 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:58,320 about our purpose and desired outcomes for our session today. Um we're really 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:02,399 going to spend a lot of time talking about the capital projects and planning 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:09,920 that you've all been deeply involved with um for uh quite a long time now and 15 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:14,320 I'm excited to take this next step in in this special meeting. Uh we'll also be 16 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:20,479 spending some time talking about the funding mechanisms that may be practical 17 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:26,400 and best and uh really look forward to that conversation with the folks from 18 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:31,360 Zans's Bank. Um by the end of the day we will have reviewed and discussed 19 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:35,759 facilities plan highlights. We've dis we'll be discussing 20 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:41,680 alternative approaches while we've also prioritized cost resilience and 21 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:46,799 accessibility. We'll be uh of course spending more time 22 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:53,520 talking about how to finance public projects and um outlining next steps for 23 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:57,920 us. So, um, with that, would you change the slide, please? Thank you. So, this 24 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:04,680 is our agenda. I know you've all seen it, so we won't spend time talking about 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,680 that today or at the moment. 26 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:12,400 Meeting agreements. These uh t don't typically change, and I know you've seen 27 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:17,200 them before, but just quickly, thank you so much for focusing on what needs to be 28 00:02:14,879 --> 00:02:24,319 needs to happen now in this meeting today. I appreciate your attention and 29 00:02:20,959 --> 00:02:30,800 uh good strategic thinking as we ask the hard questions of each other and answer 30 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:34,400 them as best as we can. Um please if you have sidebar discussions 31 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:38,319 know that it's really hard for the recorders to pick that up and we feel 32 00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:44,800 like you might be missing something that's happening um with the larger 33 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:50,720 group. Um, again, pathy, one of my favorite words. We're um making a point 34 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:55,760 and not telling a whole entire story as we are having these discussions. So, 35 00:02:52,959 --> 00:03:01,920 thank you for being brief if you can. We only have a few hours and uh use humor 36 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:05,480 as a gift, not a weapon. Anything to add to that list? 37 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:15,360 So, as we've uh as we've all been preparing for this meeting, I know you 38 00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:21,760 have um been thinking about what we'll be doing and I'd love to just capture um 39 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:26,720 what expect what are your expectations for today's session. I'm not sure who 40 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:34,080 wants to go first. >> I would like to see an actionable plan 41 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:37,200 for our facilities strategy. >> Okay. 42 00:03:35,599 --> 00:03:41,120 You want me to describe for you? >> Oh, yeah. What color? You can like 43 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:46,799 switch off. >> Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. 44 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:55,519 » Dan. Dan. Actionable plan. Good. Carolyn. 45 00:03:49,280 --> 00:04:02,480 » Whoa. Put me on the spot. Julie. Um. I I uh I have I I don't want Chris to 46 00:04:00,959 --> 00:04:07,519 dictate what I'm going to say here. I'm being py. I'm gonna skip my turn. 47 00:04:04,879 --> 00:04:11,280 » Ah, she's gonna wait. Mayor. >> Okay. Um, 48 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:15,920 what I would like to do is come out of here with everybody on the same page on 49 00:04:12,799 --> 00:04:22,320 this on these issues. >> Same page. So, shared agreement. Okay. 50 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:28,000 Elise, >> I just want to come out with some good 51 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:32,960 direction for the town staff and and Chris as the manager so they can move 52 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:39,600 forward and get what what they need out of this. But 53 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:43,680 » yeah, I think that's a smart answer. The um 54 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:49,759 I don't think all of the questions are yet right to have a definitive action 55 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:53,759 plan going forward. I think there's still a list of some other pieces that 56 00:04:52,400 --> 00:05:00,800 we need. >> Um I noticed that Chris did change the 57 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:07,680 test fit one. Um did you revise the test fit one? uh we maybe we'll get into what 58 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:11,039 you mean by that but I I iterated some other alternatives but the test fit 59 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,639 should be it might be my narrative around the test fit that is inconsistent 60 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:18,080 which I apologize for >> right but it was that you were 61 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:23,600 developing a bit of a case for the marshall's office only at the community 62 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:28,479 center site and that was sort of new >> uh that is basically test fit one but 63 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:30,560 let's let's talk more about that when we get to the alternatives 64 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:35,039 » so I mean I think there's some things that you is still like I don't think 65 00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:42,000 those options are super fully fleshed out yet and I hope that we can come up 66 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:46,560 with a list of like things that so that Chris can check those boxes and move 67 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:51,120 closer to the point where we can have an action plan maybe before the end of the 68 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:54,320 year I think would be reasonable. >> Okay. 69 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:58,000 » What does Greg think >> Craig? You're you're up. 70 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,320 » Uh what I 71 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:08,400 any direction we're going, we're talking about a lot of money. And the issue the 72 00:06:06,479 --> 00:06:12,240 council has the most control over is actually the the buildings of the above 73 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:16,560 ground buildings that we're that we're building. So, what I would hope is that 74 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:22,960 we come out with a general direction and a set of questions around uh what we 75 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:28,000 want to build. >> I never made any questions. 76 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:32,000 » To me, that's an actionable plan. >> Yeah. 77 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:35,120 » Yeah. Yeah. Um, I look really forward to the Zion's presentation and learning 78 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,479 more about funding and funding strategies and understanding that. 79 00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:40,240 That's the thing I'm the most excited about today. 80 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:44,960 » Good. >> Mike, 81 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:48,840 » um, it's going to be hard for me today without weaponized humor. 82 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:58,960 » You're licensed. >> Um, I would like to transition from um, 83 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:01,440 known options to selections. >> Okay. 84 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:10,000 Sounds like action plan in different words, but I 85 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:14,560 like I like that too. Okay, Chris. >> Yeah, oh, don't forget Brooke. 86 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:19,919 » She's hiding in the corner. >> Let's go with Okay, either one. 87 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,720 » Why is Brooke hiding in the corner? >> She's running. 88 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,160 » She's running at all. >> Sorry. And you have to do it from over 89 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,360 there. >> I hated to do it. 90 00:07:25,599 --> 00:07:32,240 » Okay. Sorry. I 91 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:37,680 my goals are to to refine the the concept. I think um I think we've all 92 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:42,319 sort of said the same thing. This is somewhat uncharted territory for us in 93 00:07:39,759 --> 00:07:45,759 terms of the scope of this project as a group and we haven't the town hasn't 94 00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:50,400 done a capital project this big since 1994 when we built the town office. Um 95 00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:55,919 and we're really sorting through a lot like generations of hopes and dreams for 96 00:07:53,919 --> 00:08:01,120 a community center. we've had this big shift towards um maintaining the assets 97 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:05,759 we already have in the last couple years. So, I think my goal for today is 98 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:10,440 is to move the ball down the field essentially and I think we're prepared 99 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,440 to do that. 100 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,039 » Okay, Brooke, >> I just hope that everything look great 101 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:22,080 today. >> Tech support is awesome. 102 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:27,520 Okay, Molly, I hate to put you on the spot. You're up. I share books with me. 103 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:35,240 » Okay, that today's meeting goes smoothly. Okay, that's great. Thank you. 104 00:08:31,599 --> 00:08:35,240 Appreciate your help. 105 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:44,440 So, now I'll um happy to pass it over to Chris who spent quite a bit of time 106 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,440 preparing all of this. 107 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:54,600 as usual. Not quite enough time uh nor um well enough in advance to feel uh 108 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:00,560 100% prepared. Okay, more coffees on the way. 109 00:08:59,279 --> 00:09:02,399 Brooke, are you ready for the next slide? 110 00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:08,560 » Yes, sir. >> Okay, so um thank you for your patience 111 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:12,959 with me as I got the materials to together for this. I there were numerous 112 00:09:10,959 --> 00:09:17,440 snafoos with documents getting distributed on Friday. 113 00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:21,920 Uh, these slides have been updated a couple of times. Um, I know I sent out 114 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:25,839 another version of them the other uh night. I believe that was two nights 115 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:32,000 ago. This version has yet another couple of edits. Uh, I'd be interested if you 116 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:36,560 had noticed them. Um, this slide is one of those places. So, uh, we've all been 117 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:41,200 on this journey together for for the most part. I think we really the sort of 118 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:46,880 watershed moment that led us to this point where we have a a facilities plan 119 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:52,720 for us to consider was um in January of 2024 we were together here for our first 120 00:09:49,920 --> 00:10:00,240 strategic retreat um as council and staff and we had that great um 121 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:05,360 realization that we need to focus on in the medium-term future the town must 122 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:11,440 prepare to replace the assets we've had in place for up to 50 years in some 123 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:16,240 cases. Um before that we really didn't have a plan for replacement of existing 124 00:10:14,079 --> 00:10:20,800 facilities particularly out to central which is our oldest building as we'll 125 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:26,160 get into. Um so that's a that's a pretty big shift to sort of aspirations uh 126 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:29,760 around building a community center with not even question marks but just sort of 127 00:10:28,079 --> 00:10:35,519 there were unknown unknowns. What are we going to do if um Alta Central is no 128 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:40,240 longer serviceable? So, so anyways, um again, we've all uh here in the room 129 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:45,200 lived these other milestones. Um we started the facilities planning project 130 00:10:41,839 --> 00:10:51,360 in September of last year, just about a year ago. Um we worked some of the cost 131 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:54,880 level uh planning level cost estimates into our budgets for this year, into our 132 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:59,560 capital plans for this year. Not really so much our budgets. Um, 133 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:07,040 we did acquire OS, uh, which of course, you know, we're 134 00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:10,880 sitting in it here today. There's quite an episode in the history of the town 135 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:17,200 and the community. Um, it does give us a significant flexibility as we 136 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:25,880 contemplate a program uh, for this new facility that we're um, at this point 137 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,880 moving towards building. Next slide. 138 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:33,040 So, the facilities plan, it's done. Um, I've continued engaging with Nate a 139 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:39,680 little bit to just to sort of help me understand how to um extract some of the 140 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:43,200 um space planning and and and cost estimation work they did to think about 141 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:49,600 other alternatives besides the two test bits. Um you all have we've reviewed uh 142 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:56,079 most of the important parts sort of the mechanical parts of the document. So, um 143 00:11:52,880 --> 00:12:00,880 I provided you these highlights. Uh one section I didn't highlight is the uh 144 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:04,399 facility condition assessments because all of us have discussed those a few 145 00:12:02,959 --> 00:12:08,000 different times already. But for anybody in the public who's, you know, not been 146 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:11,600 following along with our meetings, the facility condition assessments are 147 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:17,200 really the foundation of of the recommendations and of the the 148 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:20,639 recommendations to repair or replace um which we will get into in the next 149 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:25,200 slide. So, I'll just walk through the kind of 150 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:28,959 the the summary, the bottom line at the facility condition assessments of the 151 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:33,279 three buildings of our three primary buildings as of last September, which 152 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:39,040 are Alpha Central, um the community center firehouse building and the town 153 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:44,560 office. Um FFKR was the architecture firm we hired to lead the study. uh 154 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:48,959 their recommendation for Alta Central is to decommission it as a police 155 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:57,600 department building or other essential facility uh and to move Ala Marshall's 156 00:12:52,399 --> 00:13:03,519 office functions to a new building. Um the reasons why are essentially it's a 157 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:08,240 it's a very old building. Uh it came up the canyon on a truck on two different 158 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:12,959 flatbeds in the 50s was taken over by the town in 73. It's on a rubble 159 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:19,760 foundation um sort of harvested from native rock. Um and as such it does not 160 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:22,560 satisfy the building code for essential facilities. Essentially has to be 161 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:26,079 disaster resilient. It has to be designed to have a police department 162 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:31,120 building that's that satisfies the building code. It has to be resilient to 163 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:35,279 earthquake, wind loading um and other um but you know foreseeable hazards. It's 164 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:41,120 Al Central is not designed with any sort of seismic um risk mitigation in mind. 165 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,399 It's not built to spec and it's in an avalanche path. Um and of course 166 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:49,839 something we've not talked about is that it's it's potentially our most at risk 167 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:53,279 facility to wildfire hazard which is something that we're going to actually 168 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:58,079 be digging into at the town over the next couple months. Um it is a 169 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:03,360 remarkably functional uh structure and facility given its age. 170 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:07,360 I think um because it's to some extent our our we have the most constant 171 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,079 operations and so we have a lot of eyes on the building systems and the 172 00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:16,240 structure and we do maintain the snow around it. Next slide. 173 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:19,199 So the community center um AFK recommends demolishing the community 174 00:14:17,839 --> 00:14:23,360 center and that's the direction the town's been heading in for a while for a 175 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:28,000 while at least 20 years. We talked about replacing that building. Um the 176 00:14:26,079 --> 00:14:31,920 community center has significant structural issues. the woodframed 177 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:35,519 annexes on the side of the building are separating from the concrete structure. 178 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:41,839 That's kind of the core of the building. Uh the big winter of 2023 revealed that 179 00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:46,240 the the roof may not be rated for the snow loads we we experienced that winter 180 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:51,920 and the structural analysis that was part of the FFKR work uh indicated that 181 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:58,959 in fact it is does not satisfy the snow loading requirements we apply to new 182 00:14:54,639 --> 00:15:05,440 construction uh in the town of Alta. Um, it is our most accessible 183 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:09,519 uh site um both in terms of just general usability and public access. Um, it has 184 00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:14,720 the best potential to be a year-round ADA accessible site for a building. Uh, 185 00:15:12,399 --> 00:15:18,560 we do believe it's less exposed to large avalanche paths than our buildings here, 186 00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:22,480 which we know are exposed to large avalanche paths. Um, we have not done 187 00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:27,120 our own study of that site. It's not clear anybody's ever done a formal 188 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:31,760 avalanche uh analysis of that site, but I'll show show a graphic later of a a 189 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:37,920 pretty sophisticated avalanche study that seems to suggest it's less exposed. 190 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:46,000 Next slide. The town office is um somewhat obviously 191 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:51,680 are are the best in the best shape of um uh those three buildings. FFR recommends 192 00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:57,199 uh continuing to use the town office. um it does have significant accessibility 193 00:15:54,399 --> 00:16:03,040 challenges. We've all experienced um the sort of the adventurous nature of 194 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:07,920 accessing the building uh in the winter. Um but again FFKR recommends that we 195 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,759 continue to use the building either in its current program of use which is as a 196 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:17,040 center for the administration or potentially as a shared space for um the 197 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:21,040 administrative functions of the town as well as like a dispatch operations 198 00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:25,759 center or something like that. Next slide. 199 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:29,920 Uh here are some notes for me. These um issues were not 200 00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:36,079 uh necessarily the focus or the outcome of FFKR's work. In the upper right, I I 201 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:41,279 have an excerpt from a um a UD do avalanche study from about 10 years ago 202 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:45,440 um that shows maximum observed runouts for the big paths in the center of town. 203 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:49,759 Uh the sort of our the neighborhood we're in right now is in in the upper 204 00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:55,040 left side next to the mile marker 12 dot. And as you can see, um both the 205 00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:59,120 town office and Alta Central appear to be exposed. And we know that there's a 206 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:03,920 record of Alta Central being hit by an avalanche early in uh Marshall Mike 207 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:07,600 Mory's career um at Alta Central. Whereas 208 00:17:05,439 --> 00:17:11,520 uh up further up and to the right along the highway, you can see the community 209 00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:16,079 center site and the Rustler are are less exposed. Um so again, if we build a new 210 00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:22,240 building, we'll have to do our own avalanche study, which might um yield 211 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:26,079 different findings, but that is similar to what other studies look like. Another 212 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:32,000 thing I wanted to point out, this is an excerpt from the UD do easement for 213 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:36,799 Highway 210. Um, you can see here that much of the parking we rely on to access 214 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:42,559 uh these two buildings is private property or at least some portion of 215 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:46,640 that prism here um is private property and we're all aware that there are that 216 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:50,640 that property could be redeveloped at some point in the future which could put 217 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:54,400 that parking at risk. So that would leave us relying on this is forest 218 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:58,480 service land with a U dot easement over at the town has special use permits um 219 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:03,440 really for we have a couple different special use permits that apply uh to 220 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:09,120 this parking here. So that is relatively um reliable in the future but not all of 221 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:12,559 it is. Um and the other thing I just want to highlight in summary is that 222 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:18,000 these all of our buildings have significant um accessibility challenges 223 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:21,360 and there are a lot of risks and impacts uh associated with that. 224 00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:29,840 Yes. >> One thing we kind of leave out is that 225 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:38,320 town owns a lot of property off to the right of this lower right 226 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:41,120 uh figure which is parking lot. >> Yeah. 227 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:46,640 » And so we do have parking. You just have to 228 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:51,200 walk a little further to get to these. And the other the other interesting 229 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:57,679 thing is that among the buildings that are in in the 230 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:03,280 mix here, this one I don't think has been really evaluated by this group. 231 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:09,840 » No, it's not because we didn't own it. Uh 232 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:15,520 » yes. And I think we uh the way we it we discussed the pros and cons to the 233 00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:20,880 town owning the facility which were numerous but the in my assessment the 234 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:26,559 impact of it on our facilities outlook is that we now have a multi-purpose 235 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:34,480 space or a community center space and so we can dep prioritize or um jettison or 236 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:38,320 abandon uh such space in a new Can you show Can you just I don't Can 237 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:42,000 you show where the private land the land that we own that we were going to put a 238 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,799 community center on that we now are not using? 239 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:47,840 » Uh I >> I can't back out of this, but it it's 240 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:52,720 it's >> it's basically where the where the 241 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:58,480 asphalt sort of bulges out into the into the slope here. Yes, it is um uh yes, a 242 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:03,280 large avalanche path. It hasn't hit the town since 1973, I believe. But um 243 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:07,440 » Wow. And I still have one other I just have a question. Is Friends of Alta 244 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,720 still in our building or they don't they are still there? 245 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,799 » Yes, they are. >> Okay. So that is just another thing that 246 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:17,280 we have to factor into the puzzle if we keep providing space for them. 247 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:20,240 » Well, but their lease is has a limited life, does it not? I mean expire at some 248 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,600 point. >> You're year. 249 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:29,360 » Yeah. >> Okay. So that's the facility condition 250 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:33,760 assessment. Um uh after that in the document they get 251 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:42,480 into uh the document moves into an analysis of what um what we need. So we 252 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:47,360 assessed what we have uh and FFKR took some input from staff and also had a 253 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:52,720 session with the council um to try to understand what the future town of Alta 254 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:58,640 facilities portfolio um needs to provide. Uh, I should have probably 255 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:04,880 flipped this flipped these around. I guess I would focus on the um uh 256 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:08,799 facility recommendation decision tree first. This is I think pretty 257 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:16,159 self-explanatory if you've been engaged in this um uh analysis over the last 258 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:20,960 year, but essentially you can see that um the solid lines represent 259 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:27,440 recommendations. Uh the dotted lines recommend uh 260 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:32,000 indicate um you know potential directions for the town to take and then 261 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:36,799 the the gray lines are um outcomes that F ofare does not recom uh recommend. So 262 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:43,280 here we see the recommendation that the community center be demolished 263 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:49,440 uh and that Alta Central be moved into a new building. Um whereas uh the town 264 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:52,799 office building uh could could be replaced. the functions could be mo 265 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:58,640 moved into a new building but but it's not necessary at this time because the 266 00:21:54,320 --> 00:22:03,600 building's in such great shape. Um so from here uh we went further into 267 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:11,120 this analysis of what we need in the future. Uh the the size of these shapes 268 00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:17,360 represent the amount of square footage that uh we all told FFKR our various 269 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:21,440 functions of the town need in the future if we could have everything we wanted. 270 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:25,039 So this is kind of a this is a everything in in the kitchen sink 271 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:31,520 approach and then the relationship between the spaces indicate um what 272 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:34,640 needs to be adjacent uh to each other. And of course a key relationship here 273 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,840 given our our understanding the accessibility challenges is the 274 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:42,640 relationship of all these functions to the highway. So the marshall's office 275 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:48,720 must be adjacent to the highway, the police functions so that those so that 276 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:53,120 our police officers um can respond uh without the need to like you know 277 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:56,480 hike down a snowy slope through uh 3 ft of new snow and and wipe off their 278 00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,799 vehicles. >> Chris, one question. 279 00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:05,440 » Yes. uh for clarity under support spaces. We're really talking about like 280 00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:10,960 either via a vehicle bay or you know storage of stuff and things that we need 281 00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:18,400 access to or what is >> support spaces. Uh the storage is mostly 282 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:24,720 programmed into Marshall's office and administration. Support spaces is um 283 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:28,000 more like hallways, stairways, some minor storage spaces like where we keep 284 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:34,640 the sign, you know, like where we keep the signs. Um restrooms, mechanical, 285 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:38,600 electrical, plumbing. Yeah. Yeah. >> I was really sure I understood that. 286 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:51,039 » Okay. So kind of the the last major component of FFKR's work was um to 287 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:58,640 produce two very conceptual uh non these are not designs 288 00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:04,960 uh but they're um test fits of functional spaces at the town uh 289 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:09,760 functional spaces that the town needs to provide in our facilities in the future. 290 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:15,120 So they take the adjacencies, they take our wish list of um existing and future 291 00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:20,240 functional space and then they sort of mash them all together uh to yield these 292 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:27,520 these two outcomes. Again, we've we've discussed these um at the council. Uh if 293 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:31,279 these bullet points or my representation of them today don't match your your 294 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:39,600 recollection or your reading from the actual document, please do speak up. Um, 295 00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:44,080 but test fit number one assumes we tear down the the community center, the old 296 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:48,559 firehouse, and we put a new building up there. We move all of the Alta 297 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:54,159 Marshall's office functions to that building. Uh, we add additional 298 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:57,520 functional space uh for the marshall's office, including a little bit of 299 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,799 dispatch space. Sometimes we talk about the marshall's office, there's a police 300 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:04,400 function and a dispatch function. They're both significant staff 301 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:08,240 organizations. Um, so that's just something to keep in mind that the 302 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:14,880 Marshall's office is the entire program. Um, test fit one includes the existing 303 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:20,080 functions uh at the community center including um perhaps most importantly a 304 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:24,400 a police uh sorry post office, our contract uh US post office. It includes 305 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,480 our multi-purpose space where we have council meetings. It's kind of the the 306 00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:33,200 community center. Um it includes the square footage of the reading room uh 307 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:38,000 and what uh was formerly an office space for ACE. So the whole you know 308 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:42,080 rectangular space um in the upper floor of the community center building and of 309 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:48,640 course the garage base underneath that's sorry back broke if you don't mind. Um 310 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:54,320 yeah 14,000 square foot. this test fit and the cost that you see for the test 311 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:57,279 fit does assume renovations to the town office recommended by that 312 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,840 interdisciplinary team that did the facility condition assessments. So as we 313 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:08,159 start to talk about you know possible alleart projects that are you know bits 314 00:26:05,679 --> 00:26:13,440 and pieces of these test fits just keep in mind that they don't necessarily 315 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:17,279 include any work on the town office. Um so 316 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:22,640 you know going forward if we decide to do one of these bigger test fit type 317 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:26,240 projects uh we could decide for the time being to extract the costs of 318 00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:30,400 renovations to the town office essentially to bring it up to code. So 319 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:34,000 I'll just leave that there. Um both of these test fits would require additional 320 00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:37,840 footprint up there at the community center. Our land at the community center 321 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:42,320 is a postage stamp under the footprint of the building. um the width of which 322 00:26:39,919 --> 00:26:47,679 is essentially the corners of the woodframe annexes and then the frontage 323 00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:51,279 is really it's just a couple of feet in front of the building. It might be 10 324 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:57,360 feet um which puts it too close for comfort to the highway. Um I'm confident 325 00:26:54,400 --> 00:27:00,960 we can uh work with the Forest Service to use more land under a special use 326 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:04,480 permit and there may be some potential for us to exchange out of that parcel 327 00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:09,840 that Roger was asking about up here in the Flagstaff parking lot. 328 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:15,039 Thank you, Brooke. Okay, test fit two. This is the biggest most expensive uh 329 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:19,600 concept that uh I think we'll be discussing uh that we've discussed so 330 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:25,120 far and that we'll discuss going forward. Um new building at the 331 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:29,440 community center site that would house the police functions of 332 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:35,520 the Alta Marshall's office but not dispatch and it would also uh house the 333 00:27:33,919 --> 00:27:39,840 administrative functions of the town office. So primarily the upstairs what 334 00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:44,640 happens upstairs in the town office building some of the storage downstairs 335 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:48,960 uh would move up to the community center and that that is the that is the 336 00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:54,240 accessibility um that this is the alternative that 337 00:27:51,440 --> 00:28:02,799 prioritizes accessibility across accessibility to our most public facing 338 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:08,000 functions of the town. Um the town office of course is is in great 339 00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:12,480 shape. Uh this test fit proposes remodeling the town office into the 340 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:16,240 dispatch center. So dispatch quarters and dispatch operations would move into 341 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,880 the town office building. And the thinking there is that there is 342 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:27,440 essentially no need for the public for customers and constituents um to go 343 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:33,039 visit dispatch. Uh this is a bigger building by 3,000 square ft or so on the 344 00:28:30,399 --> 00:28:36,399 community center site assuming that the existing functions of the community 345 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:40,159 center also stay in this building and then it's the entire square footage of 346 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:45,039 the town office is renovated. So again the cost estimates for this test fit to 347 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,720 assume about a million dollars in remodel costs for the town office which 348 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,200 seems a little low to me but at any rate. 349 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:56,640 » Okay that's a good question. Yes. Maybe this is something for later, but is it I 350 00:28:54,399 --> 00:28:59,919 mean this is more for my is it better for you to have dispatch with the 351 00:28:58,399 --> 00:29:04,559 marshals building together or are you okay with them being separate? I mean 352 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:08,640 they kind of are in a little way now but >> yeah we can be functional either way. 353 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:18,039 » Um you know there's always going to be a need for us to you know in person react 354 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:18,039 with with one another. Um, you know, 355 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:26,240 I I really go back and forth on um, you know, if we were to be, you 356 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:31,039 know, colllocated in the same building, you know, would need some physical 357 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:36,000 delineation. Um, you know, this concept um, you know, provides that organically. 358 00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:39,120 Um, >> just curious. 359 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:45,880 » Yeah. Think about >> we can make it work either way. Um, 360 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,880 what's the better way? 361 00:29:46,980 --> 00:29:51,120 [Music] >> What's your dream way? Think about that. 362 00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:57,279 » Well, >> what's your dream way? 363 00:29:53,679 --> 00:30:01,840 » I I think that out of necessity, we run differently 364 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:06,799 than anywhere in in law enforcement, probably in for sure in the county, 365 00:30:03,679 --> 00:30:12,240 probably in the state. Um there there's a fine balancing act 366 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:16,559 between the onduty operational staff and the people who are in Q to go on shift. 367 00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:20,000 Um, and so 368 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:26,799 we need a facility that allows our offduty 369 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:31,679 personnel to have quarters be unaffected by the noise and it and those kind of 370 00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:37,919 things that, you know, going on in the dispatch thing because if you're up all 371 00:30:33,919 --> 00:30:42,000 night waiting for your shift, um, you know, because of radio noise, um, you 372 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,880 know, you're not going to be a very efficient dispatcher when you do come on 373 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:55,880 duty. So, um I I hate to say creature comfort, um but we we need some 374 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:55,880 functional quiet space for dispatch 375 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:02,159 as we also sounds like a separate place is your 376 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:06,799 preference. >> Um we want to keep them segregated away 377 00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:11,279 from distractions >> and the ADA compliance of that 378 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,320 requirement is certainly less than the public facing things and everything 379 00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:18,320 else. Yeah, we don't consider >> there's no perfect answer in this town. 380 00:31:15,919 --> 00:31:25,200 » Yeah, we we we don't consider uh while Alta Central has to be a secure from the 381 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:29,840 public facility. Um you know, so there's there's really not an everyday need for 382 00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:34,320 public access there. Um >> or for the employees, it's it's there's, 383 00:31:32,159 --> 00:31:38,080 » you know, there's always going to be an accessibility issue. You know, if we 384 00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:40,960 continue to keep Alta Central, you know, up on the slope here, you know, we're 385 00:31:39,679 --> 00:31:44,320 going to have contractors. We're going to have inter agency visitors, you know, 386 00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:50,799 they're going to have to come up and log in and um you know, be escorted. Um 387 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,559 can can I just >> can I just respond to something to 388 00:31:52,399 --> 00:32:01,440 something that you just said? I I just I don't believe that ADA compliance 389 00:31:57,919 --> 00:32:07,360 uh respects public versus internal or employee access. The facility is either 390 00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:12,720 ADA compliant or it's not. And so, you know, it's it like a building the town 391 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:17,200 office as a dispatch center would not be it would be hardressed to make it ADA 392 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:22,399 accessible much of the year and it's not technically right now in the summertime. 393 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:26,799 So, it's just a choice we have to make. >> No, I Yeah, I'm trying that that's I'm 394 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,279 trying to drive towards that filter. >> Yeah. 395 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:33,279 » Because we we can't we're not going to make that building ADA compliant. It's 396 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:38,080 not going to happen. Not Not a fully blah blah blah like to your point. And 397 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:42,480 so I was just curious to Mike's preference operationally and um that as 398 00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:45,919 a factor. >> I think for me it's not necessarily like 399 00:32:44,159 --> 00:32:50,240 the buildings that need to be ADA. It's more kind of like what this study took 400 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:54,000 and says what a services that the town provides needs to be by the road, right? 401 00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:59,360 » That's kind of how I view it. And it sounds like dispatch does not need to be 402 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:07,919 » by the road. Yeah, you know, right now our accessibility um concerns 403 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:11,200 um for our staff are secondary to, you know, the public that we we might have 404 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,960 to deal with, witnesses, you know, suspects, victims, and all that that we 405 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:19,279 need to be able to bring, you know, from the highway into an office space. 406 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:24,720 » Okay. Okay. Good. This was I just curious. Sorry. I mean the the um the 407 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:29,039 downside of having something right on the road is the noise and disturbance. 408 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:36,240 » We are. >> I'm sure you are. And I wonder if that's 409 00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:42,799 uh give it what's your preference on that versus I mean having 410 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:48,519 dispatching in in this yellow block versus having a up the hill there. 411 00:33:51,679 --> 00:33:58,240 My gut tells me to keep dispatch over on this side of town. 412 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:02,159 » Between Yeah. Good to you. 413 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,919 » Oh, can I sit back? >> Yeah. So, I I like this chart. 414 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,119 » Yeah. >> Yeah. It's about 415 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:13,280 » So, can you tell can you tell me how this connects to these two sides? Cuz I 416 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,760 Which >> this is the more than a wag. 417 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:22,879 Do you want to advance to more than a wag with a bag of salt? Yeah. Do you 418 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,480 like the Do you get the salt? The metaphor. 419 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,079 » Yes, I did. >> Thank you guys. Thank you guys. Yeah. 420 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:33,839 Take it with a grain of salt. I Yeah. Right. 20 pounds. Yeah. 421 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:39,280 » Do you want to advance to that slide? Um 422 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:44,000 this is this is the red box and this is the yellow box. 423 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:48,480 Make sense? And I do have some asteriskes. 424 00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:52,639 Um so again these like I said earlier the the test fits include renovations to 425 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:55,760 the town office. They do include multi-purpose space 426 00:34:54,399 --> 00:35:01,359 which we are now studying in a multi-purpose space. 427 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:08,079 Um the other alternatives most of their alternatives up here one two uh four and 428 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:13,839 five do not. I added another alternative >> right which is the one that of course 429 00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:20,240 I'm gravitating to. So in that one which is really just the police 430 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,440 right um >> post office 431 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:29,839 » oh >> focused so I wasn't sure it was really 432 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:36,160 worth adding this in this is actually an idea that um Sarah McCloskkey shared 433 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:43,760 with me this is uh this so this is new and I am going to try to speak to it 434 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:49,040 this the most assumptions. Um I think if Nate Henry, the FFKR project manager, 435 00:35:45,839 --> 00:35:52,960 were in here, he'd be sort of um you know, he he'd have some maybe some 436 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:57,359 concerns with my representation of this, but basically the concept is we put a 437 00:35:55,839 --> 00:36:02,240 new building at the community center site. 438 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:06,800 Uh that is the police that's where the police function takes place and it has 439 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:13,280 some array of existing functions in there as well. Um really it would be the 440 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:17,119 post office and um we'd have to make a decision about 441 00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:22,160 multi-purpose space. Much of the rest of it is effectively Ala Marshall's office 442 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:27,040 space already. So that's so there's our there's new it's two buildings. This is 443 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:30,079 two new builds >> which the cost impacts of which are 444 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,920 definitely not represented in this but obviously but it's my understanding it's 445 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:38,000 typically more expensive to do to build two buildings than it is one various 446 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:44,079 other things being equal. So the second new building would be 447 00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:50,400 a small building on the Alta Central footprint that is just dispatch quarters 448 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,480 and then the basement of the town office is remodeled as the dispatch operations 449 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,520 center. Um so 450 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:06,240 » stay upstairs. >> Yes. And so is the 7,000 ft 7,170 451 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:10,880 foot is that the footprint or is that the total square footage? And the 452 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:15,599 footprint's really 3,00 500 ft. >> Uh oh. I 453 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,640 I don't I don't know that we can necessarily say what the footprint is 454 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,680 because >> well I guess my question is would the 455 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:28,240 footprint the smaller number the 7,000 number whatever the footprint it's going 456 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:35,160 to acquire would that fit onto the site without us acquiring more land would 457 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,160 that fit onto the existing site? 458 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:45,520 I don't think so. Well, I'm try now I'm trying to remember what my assumption 459 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:49,280 was about whether this includes >> So, let me just talk through all the 460 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:53,280 alternatives here. This is just me brainstorming. 461 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:59,119 » Um, using what the what this what the facility condition assessment products 462 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:05,599 provide in terms of highlevel cost per square foot um cost estimates. 463 00:38:03,839 --> 00:38:12,640 If we don't want to do a big building, we can do a number of things. We can 464 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:17,920 just replace Alta Central and this is location agnostic. 465 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:22,960 Alta Central is currently 3,100 square feet. The cost estimates actually when 466 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:27,680 you add soft cost to that $800 per square foot they were using comes out to 467 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:33,680 about it's actually $1,13. I used a straight $1,000 factor in here. 468 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:38,320 So we can just replace the existing functions of Alpha Central. We can 469 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:42,079 pursue effic efficiencies with space, which we're kind of already doing. We 470 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:49,280 can just replace the community center, bigger building. Uh 4600 square ft of 471 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:54,320 total uh functional space over there presently. Um four points 472 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:58,720 » is number two is keeping the functions the same as it is now. We just repl this 473 00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:04,240 is just like for like a replacement of existing no remodel to the town office. 474 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:10,240 Um maybe this is helpful, maybe it's not. again. Three. This is what I tried 475 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:16,400 to cobble together last night. So, the number two, the the two equals dispatch 476 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:22,800 quarters over there. That is me multiplying by 1,000 the amount of 477 00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:28,480 square footage that dispatch said they needed in a future facility uh for 478 00:39:25,359 --> 00:39:32,880 quarters. So, that's I forget how much how many square feet that is. 479 00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:37,440 » Yeah. I mean I think the big concern is or at least some of us I think were 480 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:43,520 hoping that test fit one >> would be executable on the land that we 481 00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:48,640 own over there now and so I guess I'm searching for is this mix of poperri and 482 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:54,320 number three >> um is that executable on the land we own 483 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:59,359 now cuz you know there's also the uh element of time and that an ex uh 484 00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:04,800 building that would be executable on something that we already on making a 485 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:08,880 year faster, 6 months, a year faster. >> I don't see a special use permit process 486 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:14,560 if that's what it's going to be taking more than a a year. We would maybe have 487 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:18,880 to do an environmental assessment as opposed to we'd have to do NEPA, 488 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:23,920 » but still, if you could execute it on the land that we already own, Mike would 489 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,440 be somewhat closer to having his new police station. 490 00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:31,839 » Yeah. Yeah. Fair. The only thing about number two, and I just know this from 491 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:37,280 kind of watching the Alb and girl process, is that 492 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:42,640 » no, the number two in your your sorry, building number two in your number three 493 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:46,400 box of dispatch quarters is that when you're going to have housing in an 494 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:50,000 avalanche path, the building remodel could be really expensive. So that's the 495 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:54,560 only thing that I'm thinking about with number two is that if dispatch quarters 496 00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:57,680 right now that building probably like you said I don't know if it got hit by 497 00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:02,800 an avalanche whatever >> but like to rebuild a building we would 498 00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:06,640 have to obviously do match code and there is a big avalanche 499 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:10,640 » correct yes and I don't know the co what the cost would be so I feel like that 500 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:14,400 that number three option that you've listed here might be a little bit more 501 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:19,280 than we have estimated because like you said this was a last night 502 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:27,119 » yeah and I think are the $800 per square foot plus an additional 20% for for soft 503 00:41:23,359 --> 00:41:31,200 costs seems at the bottom end of what's a reasonable assumption for us. I don't 504 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:36,880 think it's reasonable on this site in an avalanche path. I just don't um because 505 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:43,920 of the sheer amount of concrete and rebar and design design time um that 506 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:48,400 that have to go into a building. So this this estimate does not take that into 507 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:53,599 consideration. I have no idea what it would cost to build five dorm rooms in a 508 00:41:51,359 --> 00:41:58,480 con, you know, a living room on Alta Central that's below grade and,000 509 00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:02,240 pounds per square foot. No idea. >> I like the idea. I I think that I like 510 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:06,400 the idea, the out of the box kind of idea of using our existing, like John 511 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:10,800 was saying, parcels that we own and trying to stay within the footprint. I 512 00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:14,000 just am not sure. I it'd be interesting to get like an actual cost estimate and 513 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,240 compare it to all of them, but that would take time. 514 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:24,400 » Um, let me say one thing about footprint. Um, when Chris and I talked 515 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:32,000 to uh, logistic ranger Adam, um, one of the things we talked about was getting a 516 00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:37,520 special use permit for more space behind the building so we could u 517 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:42,640 protect it better from the rock slides that are coming down. And that seemed to 518 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,599 be pretty palatable. >> Yeah. 519 00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:50,560 » Rather than uh expanding outside to put more 520 00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:52,720 building on. We don't own the entire slope that's collapsing onto the 521 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:57,920 building. >> We don't own the land where the footings 522 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:01,599 of the it's it's essentially a chainlink fence with like footings poured at the 523 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:07,040 top of that slope. It's on forest land. So we have to get a special use permit 524 00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:10,960 one way or another up there. But 525 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:14,640 » but but if it's if it's excavating significantly more cut slope. Can you go 526 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,800 to the next slide, Brooke, by the way? >> Um 527 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:22,720 Chris, >> so yeah, 528 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:25,440 » did do you agree that Adam was was u thought that would be relatively easy to 529 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,240 get that? >> Yeah. 530 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,920 » Deeper to go deeper. Okay. >> Yeah. 531 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:35,040 » Okay. >> But to go deeper, which I've always been 532 00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:38,160 a fan of, actually would involve blowing up the hard rock. It's the blowing 533 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:43,520 because it appears like it's hard rock behind it. Right. So, this is one of 534 00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:48,000 this is my favorite um historic alta photo for the time being. I we Jonathan 535 00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:54,000 Morgan and I think that this is a photo from the event dedicating the Landis ski 536 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:57,280 jump. Landis >> I want to say Nansom, but that's in New 537 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,400 Hampshire. Uh over there by the jump hill. So, this is the Angen brothers. 538 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:04,640 You can see there's flowers coming out of their hands. And this is the 539 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:08,079 community center site. This is here is the rock shelter, otherwise known as the 540 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:12,720 snowpine. You can see there's no Rustler lodge on the mine dump here. So, this is 541 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:18,560 presumably from the 40s. Um, look at this three bay garage just west and on 542 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:22,240 the other side of the highway from from the snow pine. So, there's been like who 543 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:28,640 knows how old the cuts slope behind the building is. Um, I can't imagine that it 544 00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:34,400 my understanding is Dave Hoden installed the Rockfall uh netting behind the 545 00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:38,240 building in 1983, but I just thought that was really cool to point out. We 546 00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:42,400 don't know. We don't know. Maybe somebody is alive who could tell us what 547 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:46,640 that building was before we were operating there. 548 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:50,880 » Yeah. Right on. Okay. The other uh photograph up here is 549 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:56,960 another is a photo that Jonathan found and sent to me. Um, little Cobwood 550 00:44:53,920 --> 00:45:02,400 avalanche guys were always looking for some depiction of those big 551 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:09,920 design avalanches. Um, so this is a photo from the 60s or 552 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:13,280 maybe the 70s of an avalanche. Uh, you can see a crown all the way across 553 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:17,520 Toledo and all the way up from the Flagstaff shoulder. This is the terrain 554 00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:21,920 that hits the town office. Uh, all the way up across Flagstaff face into 555 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:28,079 Binkses. You can see a fracture here. This is ML1 in the um Flagstaff's 556 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:32,319 Flagstaff mine starting zone. So you can see this is really a this is a size four 557 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:37,040 avalanche. This is the kind of avalanche that affects our buildings and and the 558 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:43,280 highway in the center of town. Craig, I don't know if you where Culp's cabin 559 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:46,880 would be, but um yeah, it's over there somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think 560 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,640 what's hard about these that I've just learning talking to Jonathan what's hard 561 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:54,880 about like the ADL and some of these other things is that these avalanche 562 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:58,560 studies that come out they don't take into account the m the daily mitigation 563 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:02,000 efforts asking >> it's real they they they like that's 564 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,720 like the current way that they do avalanche studies and I know there are 565 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,760 some people out there in the industry that are trying to kind of move that 566 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:13,359 because these obviously didn't have vins and all that stuff above the tip 567 00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:16,480 » and so it's re it is really hard when you get these avalanche studies done and 568 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:20,560 you do have to build these buildings to a certain way because of the cost of 569 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:25,040 them. But when you're doing avalanche mitigation on a regular basis, but they 570 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:28,240 can't really factor it into the code that way, 571 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:32,560 » right? Because it's active, they only will move the red zone line if it's 572 00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:37,599 passive. Like if you have a passive system, then you can say it's a devour 573 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:43,520 » charging a little. >> Well, there's no evidence. There's no 574 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:49,200 there's been no scientific conclusion that mitigation or skier compaction 575 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:52,480 affects the frequ the return interval or the magnitude of these big avalanches 576 00:46:51,359 --> 00:46:57,119 because when we get into the kind of storm cycle that produces these 577 00:46:54,160 --> 00:47:02,319 conditions nobody's skiing and the slide that hit the altage in 73 578 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:07,200 uh they were unable to access the gun mount the night before so they took 24 579 00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:12,000 hours in between mitigation missions they got you know 20 inches of grapple 580 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,440 and a big slide low and the slope released that hit the avalanche. So I 581 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,640 think the jury is still out on whether the kind of avalanche that's going to 582 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:22,480 hit the albian day lodge or the alpha lodge or the town buildings 583 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:26,680 um is is affected by mitigation. 584 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:36,480 » It's reasonable to assume it's reducing the likelihood and we haven't had that 585 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:40,319 slide since 19 really since 1973. So, okay, 586 00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:45,280 key issues with the town buildings, accessibility, resilience. I mean, I 587 00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:48,880 left off, you know, vast uh building code non-compliance, but it's of course 588 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:55,760 in a couple of our buildings, you know, the old buildings are by and large out 589 00:47:51,839 --> 00:47:59,839 of code. Um, another big issue is that it's expensive to build anywhere, but 590 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:03,280 especially in Alta, and we have a small budget. Um, so we're going to get into 591 00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:08,560 that here in the second half of the meeting today. The recommendations are 592 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:12,480 to tear down the community center and focus a new building on that site 593 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:17,200 because it's the most accessible and it's the most resilient. As far as we 594 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:21,760 know, it's the most resilient to um avalanche exposure. Uh they recommend 595 00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:25,440 that we decommission. They don't necessarily recommend we demolish Health 596 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:30,880 Essential, but that we we discontinue its use as a critical facility. 597 00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:35,520 Um the town office is in good shape. We should keep accessibility in mind but 598 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:39,359 continue to use you know as much of that square footage as we can. We can 599 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:44,480 optimize our use of the existing square footage and functional space we have at 600 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:49,280 the town office. Uh and then again yes they FFKR recommends I think we're all 601 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:53,200 moving in the direction of putting um alpha the alda marshall's office the 602 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,160 entire program of the alda marshall's office including dispatch in a new 603 00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:00,640 building. I think this will be the only time in 604 00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:06,640 history, if you go back to that slide, that we will ever use the word tariff in 605 00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:12,240 the town for planning. Well, I hope you're right. Um, okay, next slide. This 606 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:17,680 is new for my deck the other night. Um, John and I were sort of chatting about 607 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:23,280 this. Um, what a what a we're on the cusp of we're 608 00:49:21,599 --> 00:49:28,720 it feels like we're always on the cusp of the next alta here, right? There's 609 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:35,119 always some big change on the horizon for the community that affects all of 610 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:38,800 its constituents and stakeholders. Um, and 611 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:47,280 we just don't know what the future holds here in Alta. Um we are a boutique 612 00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:52,000 uh municipality provide critical services. Um we do it a little bit on a 613 00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:56,640 shoestring especially the Alta Marshall's office. Um we're doing what 614 00:49:54,960 --> 00:50:00,240 we can sustain the Alpha Marshall's office. We've take make made some great 615 00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:04,640 progress but there we're always going to run a lean program. Um and there are 616 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:09,839 going to be risks associated with essentially staffing one officer at a 617 00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:14,720 time. Um, and it it just I don't know how we're going to get to to double the 618 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:19,520 size of a sworn um staff in the Alta Marshall's office given uh our revenues. 619 00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:22,559 Um, it's always going to be hard to staff police departments. I mean, it I 620 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:29,040 don't know what's going to change in the, you know, regional labor market to 621 00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:32,480 make it easy to fill police uh jobs. And there are there are always going to be 622 00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:38,640 alternatives to having a local police department out there um such as UPD. Uh 623 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:41,760 there are I think there are there's a really strong case to keeping the Ala 624 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:48,400 Marshall's office. We're a unique environment um that I think demands an a 625 00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:52,400 local on the ground presence for police and dispatch. Um but again, we just 626 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:56,160 don't know. We don't know what's coming down the pike. The same can really be 627 00:50:54,079 --> 00:51:00,240 said for for the administration or essentially the entire town of Alta. If 628 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:07,920 the administration goes away, the Altera Marshall's office has to develop a much 629 00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:12,720 larger administrative capability. Um, you know, we we 630 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:18,480 it is likely that the administration is going to the the what we outsource, not 631 00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:23,680 the jurisdiction, but the administration of the jurisdiction is likely the 632 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:28,480 outsourcing mix is likely to to change over time. Um the metropolitan service, 633 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:32,160 the municipal services district of greater Salt Lake is um who essentially 634 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:37,200 provides the administrative function over at Brighton. Uh 635 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:40,720 you're welcome to go ask some folks in Brighton how they like the MSD. I think 636 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:45,440 I think we do we provide a nice product up here. Um but we've got to think about 637 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:50,319 cost and you know do we have the scale up here to support a municipality. Same 638 00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:53,920 goes for our water and sewer. I mean, I think I think some of us recognize that 639 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:59,440 the question of how to really sustain that infrastructure on the scale of our 640 00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:06,319 um of our on our rates and rateayers scale is is it's a big question. It's a 641 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:11,760 hard problem. So, um we've got if we're going to continue to provide services at 642 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:14,960 all, we got to do it in um sustainable facilities and with sustainable 643 00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:17,040 infrastructure. I think we're all I think we've all arrived at that 644 00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:22,640 consensus >> and the whole critical mass aspect of 645 00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:26,160 it. That's what the new legislation that passed last year where they're forcing 646 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:29,839 all these little >> Yes. 647 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:33,359 » carve out places, unincorporated cities to incorporate or next, 648 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,800 » right? >> And that they're not going to allow 649 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:41,119 there to be unincorporated areas within the county anymore. 650 00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:44,720 uh and I think two more years to be in compliance, three years from the 651 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:50,480 original legislation. And it's all aimed at the same thing where there counties 652 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:55,359 being asked to provide services and it's they're complaining about the lack of 653 00:52:53,200 --> 00:53:00,800 economy of scale because there's these isolated pockets rather than the 654 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:06,800 cohesive boundary. >> How is that John to be um a threat to 655 00:53:04,319 --> 00:53:10,800 our existence? you know, we're in as long as we stay incorporated. I think if 656 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:13,680 we wanted to uninorporate then it would be that it would be an 657 00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:17,200 issue. But I, you know, presumably we're going to stay incorporated and stay 658 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:21,200 independent. And but >> when you think about what I way I 659 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,800 stumbled into that is think what happens if we do uninccorporate. 660 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,240 Uh you know what does that look like? And what it looks like is you quickly 661 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,960 become part of the county and they don't really let you maintain your own 662 00:53:29,839 --> 00:53:34,800 identity anymore. >> Yeah. They're moving in the other 663 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:39,359 direction. They're the state is forcing that and I think that becomes an 664 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:42,800 open-ended question. Where does Snowbird go with this thing? 665 00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,359 » I feel like it keep I feel like this like what John just said just makes me 666 00:53:44,319 --> 00:53:48,640 feel like we're ahead of the game compared to everybody out there. Like we 667 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,520 are in you know we got we're established we're incorporated or we're or you know 668 00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:55,760 whatever. >> So I feel like we are ahead of the game 669 00:53:53,040 --> 00:54:00,000 on that. And I also these big picture quanduries. I mean who knows what'll 670 00:53:58,319 --> 00:54:02,960 happen. We had a plane we had a plane crash crash into you know town we just 671 00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:06,000 never heard it. We could have a huge plane. I mean, we could have a huge 672 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,119 plane crash and blow up the town. I mean, but I'm just saying that as a 673 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:14,319 council member, I can only plan for where we are right now and hope to plan 674 00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:17,599 for the future, but like I don't think I can weigh any of these things in 675 00:54:15,839 --> 00:54:21,599 necessarily. I feel like if we're going to keep operating, your blue box down 676 00:54:19,839 --> 00:54:25,839 there is where we're at. like >> I mean yeah I I don't we could 677 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:32,319 incorporate but I don't yeah >> but I I also wonder about how much um co 678 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:39,200 and remote working has changed everything that we do and um you know I 679 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:44,319 walk into the beautiful town offices and I'm like wow is are is that space truly 680 00:54:42,319 --> 00:54:49,599 efficiently used and does everybody really go to work there and if you do 681 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:53,440 that's freaking fantastic but if we're building space for people that aren't 682 00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:57,680 going to come. The company I work for, all those they all our offices closed 683 00:54:55,839 --> 00:55:02,000 because we're all we all prefer to be remote. So, I don't know how 684 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,319 » we're pretty analog still. >> You're pretty what, sir? 685 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:09,359 » We're pretty analog still. >> And that's I mean, we can talk about 686 00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:13,440 that a little bit later, but I mean, we will continue to evolve. the 687 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:17,839 administration will continue to evolve and I don't see how it gets more analog 688 00:55:16,319 --> 00:55:23,119 and more paper intensive but for the time being we have a huge physical paper 689 00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:28,079 trail and um and we do work in the office uh we we the office is the town 690 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:32,800 the top floor of the town office is fully occupied more days than it's not 691 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:35,040 as of now in the future who knows who knows 692 00:55:33,359 --> 00:55:39,280 » I think that helps define us as a community and helps foster a sense of 693 00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:42,800 community tremendously because you guys are all working remote you know, then 694 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:45,599 we're just like a speed bump on the highway, you know, 695 00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:50,000 » and I think it really brings a lot to it, like ACE brings a lot to it, too. 696 00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:54,160 You know, might I suggest that when we get to the toward the end of the bond 697 00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:57,760 financing, that's when I think these sort of bigger picture quandry type 698 00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:01,520 things, that's where the rubber meets the road where we start talking about 699 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:05,760 duration of the financing and what's the appropriate uh um duration of the bonds 700 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:09,920 would have been issued. >> Yeah. And the other thing I would say is 701 00:56:07,839 --> 00:56:13,760 after I working in a space that got remodeled, you know, a handful of years 702 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:18,319 ago when Alaski area planned that lead building for the administrative offices, 703 00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:22,319 they did not take into consideration a bigger department. Like all the office 704 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:26,799 spaces were built for only like four or five administrative people. We have 705 00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:31,040 since like tripled in size. We have like taken office spaces and put three people 706 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:35,359 in them. We have like a cubicle out there that somebody works out in the 707 00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:37,839 middle of like our where the copier is. And so I'm just saying that that's the 708 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:41,280 other thing that has taken into effect that maybe we're not using all the space 709 00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:45,200 now, but we do have to plan that we could use that space because there's a 710 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,640 chance the staff might get bigger as years go on. 711 00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:50,640 » Wow. >> A little bit. Probably not recent, but 712 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:54,000 there is always a chance that like we might have an IT person or we might have 713 00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:57,440 a person that >> does a little bit of law work in the 714 00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:01,920 office. And you know, I'm just saying that like there is a chance you do have 715 00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:06,000 to plan for that because I will tell you I work in a space that did not. And that 716 00:57:03,839 --> 00:57:12,480 space has been remodeled already five times by contractors. 717 00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:17,359 » Well, I think that I think your tale of woe 718 00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:22,160 » also uh demonstrates something that is known. The pressure on the canyon and 719 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,280 numbers of people are only going in one direction. 720 00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:28,720 » That's right. >> Short of nuclear exchange, this place is 721 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:33,920 going to be impacted for the long past all of us. And I think this type of I 722 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:38,400 think we're we are at certainly at a crossroads, but I think we're being 723 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:43,839 preient in many ways. Whatever we decide will be in the town and community and 724 00:57:41,359 --> 00:57:52,319 public's best interest. >> Um I think that with respect to our town 725 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:56,240 building, the lower floor that's leased out is underutilized by 726 00:57:54,160 --> 00:58:00,079 » Oh, yeah. I think it's under. And I know there used to be a there's a meeting 727 00:57:58,319 --> 00:58:03,599 space down there. Do how much does that space get used conference room? 728 00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:07,680 » Cuz you guys now kind of meet more in what used to be the mayor's office, 729 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:10,480 right? Yeah. That's kind of turned into like a more of a meeting space for 730 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:14,480 everybody like >> Yeah. But for a meeting that requires 731 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:17,280 more than, you know, >> Yeah. 732 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:20,000 » five or five or six people, you need a bigger room in that. 733 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:22,640 » Oh, for sure. No. Well, that's why we every one of your slides had this 734 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:26,240 multi-purpose space in there. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of what I 735 00:58:24,079 --> 00:58:29,680 keep thinking about is some of this. We do have these meeting spaces that we 736 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:33,839 have yet to kind of utilize, >> right? 737 00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:38,079 » Um Julie, I think we're pretty much ready to shift into the um 738 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:43,760 » into the breakouts. Yes, of course. >> I want to emphasize what John said and 739 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:48,640 and maybe phrase it even more strongly. uh to the extent that we go to bond 740 00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:53,040 referendum that's partially financing function but actually I think the 741 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:57,000 decision is do we want to maintain an independent town of Alta 742 00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:05,440 and the reason I'm saying that is couching it that way to the public may 743 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:10,520 make the decision clearer as opposed to just be about taxes and things like that 744 00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:17,040 » yeah raises the Is it sustainable? >> Yeah. 745 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:20,960 » I mean, I think we all want to be moving forward with something that we believe 746 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:24,799 is indefinitely sustainable, >> but if if it's uh if it's not doable, 747 00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:29,760 it's not doable. >> I hear you, John. But let me just 748 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:35,359 it's not clear to me that there are significant economies of scale in the 749 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:39,280 capital investment part. Building a building up here costs what building a 750 00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:44,799 building costs. I don't think if the county administrated it, it would be any 751 00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:48,559 better and arguably worse. Uh maybe there's some on the operational 752 00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:53,079 administrative costs, but I don't think that's the issue we're facing right now. 753 00:59:54,000 --> 01:00:02,000 Can I say the last thing on this? I think I think there's going to be demand 754 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:05,359 and for local public services up here uh indefinitely. I think there's going to 755 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,160 be a justification for us to have a municipality. The only thing I'm 756 01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:14,559 concerned about is what happen when the ski what happens when our sales tax base 757 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:21,040 if our sales tax base shrinks because that's how we fund a local otherwise 758 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:25,040 property tax is what we have and we can't have 12 FTEEs on property tax 759 01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:30,799 alone. >> Yeah. 760 01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:35,040 Okay. The last slide for me um part of the reason to have breakouts or 761 01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:38,160 not breakouts or not have breakouts we talked about at the council. Julie and I 762 01:00:36,319 --> 01:00:41,440 talked about this planning it there's a ton of value in just getting up and 763 01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:46,559 moving around and talking in smaller groups. We want to focus an exercise on 764 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:52,720 priorities. And this is uh I removed a priority from 765 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:57,799 what the packet said before, which was um long-term continuity of operations. 766 01:00:58,319 --> 01:01:04,559 That was a little I wasn't sure that was going to make sense to people. And when 767 01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:10,079 I talked through it myself, it didn't seem particularly distinct from cost, 768 01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:15,040 resilience, or accessibility. Um, so really what I was thinking about is 769 01:01:11,359 --> 01:01:18,640 parking and um where can we uh reasonably assume to have the most 770 01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:24,079 secure parking. So anyways, I'd like to ask you to break out and um have a 771 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:28,319 discussion that Julie will preview a little bit more sort of guide you on 772 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:35,440 about how to prioritize cost in a project, how to prioritize um resilience 773 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:39,040 from natural hazards in a project and how to prioritize accessibility in a 774 01:01:37,359 --> 01:01:45,200 project. And my hope is that these just yield some creative thinking about what 775 01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:49,839 the scope of this facilities project is. Um, does that does that sound good, 776 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,760 Julie? >> Sorry. 777 01:01:50,319 --> 01:01:54,640 » That's okay. No, that's that's quite all right. Um, 778 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:57,119 » yeah, I'm happy to take take it from there. 779 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,599 » Okay. Okay, cool. Jen, do you want to >> No, we just might work some of the 780 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:03,720 groups out. >> Okay. 781 01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,720 » Okay. 782 01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:16,520 So what we really thought was one one way to be thinking about this with given 783 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:16,520 the information that Chris has shared 784 01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:27,440 » um is really to think about what is your key priority as we move forward and it 785 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:36,000 does help to define what the outcome will be around the action plan. So what 786 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:43,680 we decided was to offer um you time at each area. So here's cost, 787 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:49,920 resilience, and accessibility. And um really think about what does that 788 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:55,280 mean? How would you describe this uh cost? What's the smallest project 789 01:02:52,640 --> 01:03:01,119 this the town can do that makes sense, right? and and what would be the 790 01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:06,559 strategy for um accomplishing that and then like what's that action plan 791 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:10,880 look like? Now, it's quite possible probable it'll be some combination of 792 01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:16,559 all these things. So, this is just a step in the process. Um but I've I've 793 01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:21,039 got some breakout groups here and I'd like to give you each um just it's not a 794 01:03:19,359 --> 01:03:28,480 lot of time. It's not enough time at each uh 795 01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:33,599 at each of these uh air at my goodness >> stations. 796 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:42,400 » Thank you. stations. Um but let's have um at a let's have JB, Molly, Craig, and 797 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:50,280 Mike start here. Let's have Dan, Chris, Brooke, and 798 01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:50,280 Carolyn start here. 799 01:03:50,640 --> 01:04:00,400 And then at accessibility, let's have Roger, Jen, Elise, 800 01:03:56,559 --> 01:04:05,680 and Mark. >> If you'd like to join, start back here. 801 01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:09,520 » Julie, you had me at action plan. >> There you go. 802 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:16,000 » We have to um >> Yeah. So, we're gonna um on this one, 803 01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:19,839 what groups started here? >> Marker. 804 01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:24,480 talk a little bit about that. So are some of the key points that you 805 01:04:22,319 --> 01:04:28,400 identified and then each other group just said and this is really just a 806 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:33,039 couple minutes at each station. >> So we 807 01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:37,440 you know in our conversation we I think collectively agreed that in any scenario 808 01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:43,920 there is no way we get around tearing down the community centers. I mean that 809 01:04:40,079 --> 01:04:49,599 just seems to be a given. Um yeah, so taking a minimalistic approach to it, um 810 01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:54,799 we uh build the smallest, most affordable purposebuilt facility on that 811 01:04:52,480 --> 01:05:01,280 site that we can. Yeah, that covers the town's critical uh responsibilities. 812 01:04:58,319 --> 01:05:06,319 Um that just that just seemed like uh you know the priority to us. Um you 813 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:11,599 know, as a strategy, you know, let's let's identify what's the smallest we 814 01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:16,400 can be. you know, what our, you know, growing pains might look like. Um, you 815 01:05:14,559 --> 01:05:23,520 know, what are our opportunities to expand over time or is this a oneshot 816 01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:29,200 deal? Um, you know, we know, um, going into that space that there's a high 817 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:33,599 likelihood of partnering with, uh, UDA. Um, we think that's great funding 818 01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:39,880 strategy, you know, on top of bonds and, uh, things like that. I, you know, 819 01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:39,880 thanks, Chris, that's underway. Um 820 01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:48,720 » yeah, we were mostly echoing just what Mike was saying, but 821 01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:51,200 coming from a place of executability. >> Yeah. 822 01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:56,240 » That we want to avoid a situation where we work on a Taj Mahal kind of building 823 01:05:54,160 --> 01:06:00,079 that solves all of our town needs, but that was never buildable. It's never 824 01:05:57,839 --> 01:06:04,079 executable because it's too expensive or it's too big for a piece of land that we 825 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:09,039 own. So I think we were kind of coming at it uh from a desire to get the ball 826 01:06:07,119 --> 01:06:15,280 rolling and that this is going to be a process of probably more than we build. 827 01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:19,440 » And I think finally, you know, we don't want to be it's all about us at the AMO. 828 01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:22,720 You know, there's other other critical town needs and we don't want them to be 829 01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:26,559 overlooked. >> Great. Anything else to add from the 830 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,720 other groups? >> Can we stop calling at the community 831 01:06:28,319 --> 01:06:31,119 center? >> Yeah, it's really confusing. 832 01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:35,119 » Yeah, because this is I'm hearing better. very confusing 833 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:38,000 » and you're not can we just call it the post office because we all know the post 834 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,920 office is there >> and it doesn't or 835 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,760 » you can call it a facilities >> we just call it the future public safety 836 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:47,119 annex >> um 837 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:50,559 » the Jay Edgar Hoover uh >> I wanted to I wanted to add and again I 838 01:06:49,599 --> 01:06:54,400 don't know if this is going to be cost or more resilience but after watching 839 01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:57,920 the our building season is very short here 840 01:06:55,359 --> 01:07:02,559 » so if we were to demo a community center whatever building goes there might take 841 01:06:59,599 --> 01:07:05,520 two to three summers to build. So, while we're doing that, we would need to think 842 01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:08,960 about because we're going to tear the building down, where are we going to 843 01:07:06,799 --> 01:07:12,480 host the post office is kind of one of the things, again, this might go back to 844 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:16,640 more resilience. Um, so we want to maintain the services during 845 01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:20,160 construction because that's a big deal. We do have some apartments over in that 846 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:24,480 building as well, like if we tear it down, where is that going to where are 847 01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:29,119 those people going to go? Um, so a phased approach in my mind, you know, 848 01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:32,559 right now watching them build the ADL, they're building part of it. That part's 849 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:36,319 not going to get used, but the building still gets to be used. So there's ways 850 01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:40,799 to talk about maybe with our contractors if when we get there to phase it, we'll 851 01:07:39,359 --> 01:07:43,760 be able to build part of it and then put the post office back in or we'll be able 852 01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:48,160 to build part of it and put, you know, while the construction's happening. Um, 853 01:07:46,319 --> 01:07:52,880 and then we just also just kept starring everything on this one. So, people other 854 01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:57,520 day because it just says I kind of um >> Yeah, we we deconstructed and built our 855 01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:59,039 home here in nine months. >> My nine months. 856 01:07:58,799 --> 01:08:04,079 » Yes. >> Uh, I built our home here or years. 857 01:08:02,079 --> 01:08:10,960 » I hope they're down. You remember that? >> Yes. So, I mean it Yes. It could be done 858 01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:13,520 in a um not I don't think a building this big will be able to be done in one 859 01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:18,239 summer. >> He's talking about 7,000 square feet. 860 01:08:15,359 --> 01:08:20,400 And if it's efficiently built like without a lot of style and it's a block 861 01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,440 style, >> we'll see 862 01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:27,679 » however it goes. Yeah. Anyway, it >> Okay. Any other key points to that 863 01:08:26,239 --> 01:08:31,600 anyone wants to make here? One thing that that I've wanted to bring up 864 01:08:29,839 --> 01:08:36,560 earlier I was curious about. So with our current administration and the forest 865 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:41,279 service and all this stuff that seems to be in flux, is it possible to leverage 866 01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:46,960 the current administration to do some land swaps now for things that we don't 867 01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:51,040 really necessarily know, but we know we want to build on that site because 868 01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:54,400 that's the place we go. Can't we just >> try and get that land now? 869 01:08:52,880 --> 01:09:00,960 » That way it's that way it's locked up whether we action it or not. I I I think 870 01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:06,799 there's like maybe there are some policy changes in the department of agriculture 871 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:12,640 that make land exchanges easier or more likely. But a big I think 872 01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:16,480 the net impact of this administration on agencies such as the department of core 873 01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:20,719 services is they have much less administrative bandwidth because people 874 01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:24,719 have retired and the big hangup with land exchanges is not necessarily the 875 01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:28,159 policy it's the administration of the land exchanges on the forest. 876 01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:32,080 » I will tell you that the ski the ski area and the forest service have been 877 01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:36,960 doing a lot of discussion about land swapping. So I don't know if that's 878 01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:40,880 true. I feel like there is a lot of time to maybe talk about but our land that 879 01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:45,120 we're not going to be using. I'm just saying that I think it's possible and 880 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:49,440 some of the legislative in the state is also very open to the land exchanges as 881 01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:52,319 well supporting it. So >> I don't know. I feel like there's a lot 882 01:09:51,440 --> 01:09:55,199 talk happening right now. >> Could be the case. Y 883 01:09:53,600 --> 01:10:00,080 » okay >> I'm sorry. 884 01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:05,600 » No, thank you all for that. Moving to resilience. 885 01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:09,199 Who wants to kick off this discussion started here? 886 01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:16,239 » Well, I think we started I think our group started uh on on resilience. Um 887 01:10:12,719 --> 01:10:20,159 you we acknowledge that the word this was mostly intended to cue 888 01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:25,040 discussion of what is the project that's resilient to natural hazards and 889 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:31,120 disaster. It's catastrophic events. Um but it does also um conjure, you know, 890 01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:34,800 the questions about what's the long-term value? what's the long-term value of 891 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:39,520 this project with respect to Carolyn's question um about who's going to use the 892 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:45,360 facility in the in the future, but also um what is going to be the most durable 893 01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:49,600 functional space for the town? What's going to provide the most functional 894 01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:56,159 value to the municipality assuming we have a municipality um a couple 895 01:10:51,920 --> 01:11:00,000 generations down the road? So, uh this is all about the site, right? And the 896 01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:06,640 best the site that's least exposed to avalanches 897 01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:11,360 um is the community center site. Uh it may or may not be less exposed to 898 01:11:08,719 --> 01:11:16,640 wildfire, but we we're pretty confident it's less exposed to avalanches. So, you 899 01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:20,960 know, the key strategic um decision to make if we're prioritizing resilience is 900 01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:27,120 to focus on that site. I think we're all heading in that direction anyways. 901 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:30,880 » Okay. Anybody else want to chime in on this one? 902 01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:35,040 » I think we just we were just talking about like when you make a this I think 903 01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:39,199 when we finally make the decision about and where it's going to go that's going 904 01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:41,840 to kind of trickle obviously it seems like all the rise. 905 01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:44,719 » Yeah, it seems like all everybody keeps talking about putting it by the 906 01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:48,560 community current we'll call it the community center the post office 907 01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:52,960 building. Um but then it'll kind of start driving some of the other stuff 908 01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:57,840 that we need to make a decision on. I think we were coming at it from the 909 01:11:54,320 --> 01:12:06,400 point of view of all the three um we viewed resilience as a really 910 01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:12,800 important um service or the that our constituents depend on us to be 911 01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:16,560 resilient and uh to be able to handle um you know the big snow year and the big 912 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:22,480 avalair cycle and what have you and continue to function as a town, continue 913 01:12:18,719 --> 01:12:25,679 to have law enforcement and u and That's we voted this one pretty high. I'm not 914 01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:30,239 sure it was number one, but it was either number one or number two of us 915 01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:34,000 except accessibility. >> One, two or three. 916 01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:39,920 » So, one regards regards resilience in people, 917 01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:49,360 you know, pointing to the where the current post office location for future, 918 01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:53,440 you know, investment. Uh I think and listening to the discussion here this 919 01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:58,000 morning as well about the property we have acquired 920 01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:05,760 say that's an obvious failure and I think you should look to say uh if we're 921 01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:11,280 going to discuss swaps and people think that there are other 922 01:13:08,719 --> 01:13:17,040 uh state local and federal entities that are willing to consider those po 923 01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:23,280 possibilities then I think you should take a a higher level view on where 924 01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:27,679 would be uh a best spot for the infrastructure that you need because 925 01:13:26,159 --> 01:13:34,159 realitywise the location of the post office is 926 01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:38,719 basically already de facto in the road rideway. It is in fact in the road 927 01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:44,400 rightway a substantial portion of that building. And then if you look down the 928 01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:50,239 road and think back to what your long-term 929 01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:54,960 transportation needs are, that's a poor location depending on what you think is 930 01:13:52,960 --> 01:14:00,719 in the future >> and that you should if you're going to 931 01:13:56,560 --> 01:14:08,960 consider a swap. Uh and I would I would say that both the feds and the state are 932 01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:13,520 have a high much higher desire to swap these days despite some of the 933 01:14:10,719 --> 01:14:19,520 constraints that previously occurred and that it and why that is from the impetus 934 01:14:16,719 --> 01:14:23,840 from both the state and the feds is that it's a good idea and that's why they're 935 01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:29,120 willing to consider it. >> Yeah. One of the things that we did was 936 01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:32,800 we added dispatch in there because in terms of resilience, the number one 937 01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:36,960 thing that you want to make sure is that your communication stay intact, 938 01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:40,800 » right? Absolutely. Yes. So dispatch burns down those guys can go for a short 939 01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:45,679 period of time. >> It's also so reassuring for the public 940 01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:50,159 to be able to call dispatch and actually get a human being who's in 941 01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:53,199 » 24 hours a day. >> Yeah. Right. 942 01:14:51,679 --> 01:14:57,280 » Okay. All right. Now we started here 943 01:14:55,520 --> 01:15:01,199 » and this kind of goes back to this kicks that dispatch just just kicks us off to 944 01:14:59,440 --> 01:15:05,520 something that we so I know we keep talking about accessibility for public 945 01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:10,960 that's like obviously something that we all agreed needs to happen for AMO and 946 01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:15,760 some other services but for me this was also I know employee accessibility is a 947 01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:19,280 big deal. I think you know as Jen said that we've been lucky that we haven't 948 01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:24,560 had an employee with a broken leg needing to get to work. 949 01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:29,199 Some of our town staff can work a couple days remotely. A dispatcher with a 950 01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:32,480 broken leg cannot work remote. They have to be able to get to their building. So 951 01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:35,840 that was the other thing for me that I kind of think about for accessibility 952 01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:38,400 that I probably haven't been thinking about a little bit more with all this 953 01:15:37,199 --> 01:15:42,480 stuff is we keep talking about how dispatch maybe doesn't need to be close 954 01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:45,120 to the road, but in some ways um employees need to be able to get to the 955 01:15:43,679 --> 01:15:49,120 building and in the winter time I don't know if somebody on crutches with a 956 01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,440 broken leg can get to the building and dispatch unless 957 01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:54,320 » stresses me out. It happens but it stresses out. 958 01:15:52,159 --> 01:15:58,159 » I know you've been there and and there are ways to like maybe snowmobile up to 959 01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:00,480 the building and move them up there and there's some but it's just something to 960 01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:05,280 think about >> four years a dispatcher is on crushes at 961 01:16:02,719 --> 01:16:11,679 the longest possible it's just something that I think for accessibility to keep 962 01:16:07,199 --> 01:16:16,239 in mind. Um and then also just some of the town staff like Jen made a really 963 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:20,880 good point. It's not currently how much the public currently need to get to the 964 01:16:18,239 --> 01:16:25,840 town staff, but how much does the town services at our administration building 965 01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:29,679 does need to be accessible, I think is a little bit more, you know, way to think 966 01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:32,719 about accessibility as well. >> Is it accessible, not how often? 967 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:35,840 » Yeah. Not how often it's currently accessible, but is it accessible? 968 01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:40,000 Because that's what it always comes down to down the down the road with some with 969 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:44,480 someone that needs to get to a building. >> Yeah. No, thanks. I I think 970 01:16:42,159 --> 01:16:48,480 accessibility is really important and you know this obviously had a lot to do 971 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:52,880 with me deciding not to continue in the election. It's because I didn't see 972 01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:58,719 myself being able to get to the office building but comfortably during storms. 973 01:16:55,440 --> 01:17:04,000 But how much of that could be dealt with with a grading project or some heated 974 01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:07,920 stairs or some solution that doesn't require a new building? It seems like, 975 01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:12,000 you know, we're we're, you know, we're just taking out the big guns to address 976 01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:16,480 this issue of accessibility really starts with, you know, eliminating, you 977 01:17:13,679 --> 01:17:19,920 know, small hazards along the way. And I always and then when you talk about the 978 01:17:17,679 --> 01:17:25,280 snow removal aspect, you know, the radiant stairs down from the uh from the 979 01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:29,120 post office all the way to the road is not that big a project really. And it 980 01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:34,159 would also service this building and allow uh radiant heat and access 981 01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:37,520 throughout the winter. So, I mean, I I think there are some other ways we could 982 01:17:35,679 --> 01:17:42,560 handle accessibility in a more affordable manner potentially. 983 01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:45,560 » I I think the point about um 984 01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:55,920 an admin staff being more capable of working remotely 985 01:17:53,679 --> 01:17:59,360 » for a few for just maybe a couple testit moves admin over there because it's a 986 01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:05,360 public business function. I also think about staff. It is a great point that 987 01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:11,360 admin staff are most equipped to work from home without loss of productivity 988 01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:15,199 or effectiveness. So that's just it's just something I hadn't appreciated when 989 01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:18,560 we think about who needs to be roadside. >> That's kind of like my HR hat for the 990 01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:22,880 ski area because I know that like when we have employee issues, anybody that 991 01:18:20,719 --> 01:18:26,800 has a desk job, we can accommodate a lot easier than anyone that has to work out 992 01:18:24,719 --> 01:18:30,239 on the hill or anyone that has to be more of a central function that has to 993 01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:34,320 walk over snow. It's something that we're constantly like dealing in HR. 994 01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:37,360 Like if somebody has an ACL injury, sometimes their doctors do not approve 995 01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,600 of them to walk on snow, >> right? 996 01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:43,440 » And so you have to kind of as an employer decide is that person going to 997 01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:46,880 have to not work at all or are we going to try to accommodate them in some way 998 01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:50,159 so that they can get their job done? And so that's kind of where I just thought 999 01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:53,679 about it was that dispatch I didn't think about it. Our dispatchers can't go 1000 01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:57,600 and do dispatch from home or they can't go and dispatch all of a sudden from 1001 01:18:55,360 --> 01:19:01,199 another building. like dispatch center is where dispatch center happens to be 1002 01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:04,640 at. So that's just something that I just kind of didn't think about until we sto 1003 01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:10,000 stood here. >> And not everyone 1004 01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:14,159 » necessarily on the staff has to be available to the public. The public has 1005 01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:19,199 to have access to >> the functions of the town, not 1006 01:19:16,719 --> 01:19:22,480 necessarily 100% of the four staff members we have now. Correct. So you 1007 01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:27,199 don't necessarily need to move everybody in there. The one thing I would say when 1008 01:19:24,480 --> 01:19:31,280 I look at this whole bane and I go back 20 months ago and the first thing you 1009 01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:35,440 put together Chris when you did the first retreat, 1010 01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:39,840 we are much further down the road than we think we are. We're making very good 1011 01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:45,920 decisions. We're prioritizing things. We're weighing out pluses and minuses 1012 01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:50,080 and it's advancing this whole process significantly. I just think we've made a 1013 01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:53,199 lot more progress than is than we can see while we're standing in the forest. 1014 01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:58,320 Yeah. >> Yeah. Nice nice observation on 1015 01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,320 » progress. So to yeah to wrap up last couple 1016 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,440 comments. >> Can I just say something about 1017 01:20:01,440 --> 01:20:11,280 accessibility? There you go. >> What function that the town provides is 1018 01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:18,320 most um visited by the public. It's a PO, right? So I would say that in terms 1019 01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:23,440 of prioritizing accessibility, that's got to be at number one. 1020 01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:29,280 something that came up that had nothing to do with the accessibility but was a 1021 01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:36,719 reaction to the sequencing of one two three uh were two points. One is the 1022 01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:41,920 sequencing should probably be planning finalized plans than funding. 1023 01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:46,640 » That it's much better if we go to the public with we know what we're going to 1024 01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:50,320 do rather than and ask them to finance that rather than give us a bunch of 1025 01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:56,640 money we'll figure out later. >> Yeah. The the second thing which I think 1026 01:20:52,480 --> 01:21:02,719 is very realistic is that there's enough planning to do that assuming we need a 1027 01:20:59,679 --> 01:21:08,400 bond issuance in order to finance stuff, we're probably not going to make it by 1028 01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:13,520 November 26. So we're probably talking about I this is assuming bond issuance 1029 01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:16,000 has to be elections have to actually be in November. 1030 01:21:14,239 --> 01:21:21,920 » The orange one. So I I I think we're looking at more than years planning time 1031 01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:27,199 in order to finalize the plan. >> Okay. Yeah. 1032 01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:30,800 And I really like Mark's comment like are we really like we all look at it 1033 01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:35,040 like oh going to tear down the post office but is there an alternative where 1034 01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:38,400 we could keep all the functions that Alisa is concerned about running while 1035 01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:42,000 we do >> yeah construct. I mean, well, when you 1036 01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:45,120 think about the post office, though, like if let's say we tear the building 1037 01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:46,480 down and we are looking at a a two summer project. 1038 01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:52,000 » Yeah. >> We don't have a roadside spot to put a 1039 01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:56,480 post office, we may have to ask a private partner in town, like one of the 1040 01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:59,520 lodges or somebody to host the post office for us 1041 01:21:57,199 --> 01:22:02,719 » or put up a trailer >> maybe. But that's 1042 01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:08,080 » So, but it's just something that we do need to think about why we plan 1043 01:22:06,719 --> 01:22:13,360 » two years of planning. >> Yeah. Well, and now that we own this 1044 01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:17,920 building, that changes the game, accessibility to that building 1045 01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:21,280 » in different ways. There's I've got all sorts of ideas in my head, but I don't 1046 01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:24,800 know what's actually feasible. But there's I mean, it could be radiant 1047 01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:28,320 heating stairs just directly to the building. It could be a little sky 1048 01:22:26,239 --> 01:22:32,320 skywalk like Snowbird built. You know, there's all sorts of ways that we could 1049 01:22:30,239 --> 01:22:36,719 actually make that more accessible. Put the post office 1050 01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:41,600 » to start. Yeah, that's what I'm saying is yeah, this this building's actually 1051 01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:47,360 not that accessible. >> Not right now, but if we were redoing 1052 01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:53,040 the patio and we're putting in agraded wheelchair accessible ramp 1053 01:22:51,199 --> 01:22:57,600 » Okay, I think we're done. Everyone's breaking out a little. 1054 01:22:55,440 --> 01:23:02,159 » But I think keeping the public involved by all is an important part of that. 1055 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:08,400 » Okay, gang. One last one last thing before we take a really short break. I'd 1056 01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:14,239 like to know what the groups thought as each of you walked around and 1057 01:23:10,719 --> 01:23:20,239 prioritized. Where do you stand as far as A B C or what combination 1058 01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:23,920 works for you? So just a spokesperson from each group 1059 01:23:21,440 --> 01:23:27,120 » maybe what >> what's the 1060 01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:32,800 » what do you think is the priority prioritization effort to take into 1061 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:36,639 account as you think about this planning process and all that needs to be done 1062 01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:41,280 around capital facil >> I think for me it's B C and A is how I 1063 01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:42,400 would order this >> in that order. 1064 01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:48,960 » Yeah. >> Okay. I would just say in terms of the 1065 01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:55,679 big picture longterm you have to go to what are we going to 1066 01:23:51,840 --> 01:24:01,840 build and make it accessible. >> Uh the resilience and cost uh are going 1067 01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:04,320 to come after that in no particular order. 1068 01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:10,800 » Okay. Fair. What other group has to weigh in? 1069 01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:16,639 » Okay. I I you know I just think that you could shuffle what you see around and 1070 01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:21,120 probably defend yourself uh smartly in a lot of ways but I think you know it's 1071 01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:27,679 it's about we we need to nail down what is within the spirit of our influence 1072 01:24:24,239 --> 01:24:32,639 um you know uh know what we can potentially do and plan accordingly. 1073 01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:38,560 » I think the and just dubtailing on Mike's comment there. I think our our 1074 01:24:36,159 --> 01:24:44,960 sense was that all three of these are so critical that we can't move forward 1075 01:24:41,440 --> 01:24:48,960 without all good solutions on all three of these accounts. 1076 01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:53,440 » All you know so like >> I think this is the this is the one that 1077 01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:58,159 we can we can't get around 1078 01:24:55,920 --> 01:25:01,199 our budget and our means to finance and we can't get around accessibility 1079 01:24:59,679 --> 01:25:04,800 challenges. We're going to have cost constraints and accessibility 1080 01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:08,960 challenges. But I do think we can solve the resilience problem. 1081 01:25:06,159 --> 01:25:10,400 » Yeah. Good thinking, good ideas. >> Yeah. 1082 01:25:09,440 --> 01:25:12,560 » Okay. >> And concrete. 1083 01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:19,000 » Thank you all. Good job. >> We're going to take a super short break. 1084 01:25:14,639 --> 01:25:19,000 Five minutes and then we'll be back. 1085 01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:27,040 » Okay. So most of the the content I'm going to talk through is even more 1086 01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:31,679 redundant to this group um than than the slides we reviewed in the first part of 1087 01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:37,120 the meeting, but it is of course it's this is really the the key context for 1088 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:40,880 um it's the foundation for how are we going to raise money? How much money do 1089 01:25:38,480 --> 01:25:46,719 we need to raise and how are we going to raise it? Um so I'm just going to walk 1090 01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:52,719 through a couple snapshots of our fiscal year 26 budget and our capital projects 1091 01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:59,280 plan. Um, I'm going to mention in cursory fashion other options that we 1092 01:25:55,840 --> 01:26:04,080 have to raise revenues, mostly ongoing revenues for funding operations. Um, but 1093 01:26:02,719 --> 01:26:09,520 of course, how much money we need to borrow is related to how much money um 1094 01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:15,199 it takes to operate the organization. Um, so we won't get too deep into that 1095 01:26:12,639 --> 01:26:20,400 because we have some public finance experts here today, um, Mark Anderson 1096 01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:27,199 and Janette Harris from Zans's Public Finance Incorporated, uh, to talk about 1097 01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:30,239 how municipalities borrow money. Uh and then we're going to wrap up with 1098 01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:35,440 we're not gonna do another breakout, but we're just going to have a round table 1099 01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:41,440 discussion about um uh direction to staff, what more what does the council 1100 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:49,440 need to know about and discuss next? Uh and other key takeaways from today. 1101 01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:56,239 Next slide. Okay. So uh general fund revenues for this year 1102 01:26:53,120 --> 01:27:03,280 uh just about 3.1 million in revenue is what we project uh 56% sales tax even 1103 01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:07,760 subsequent to our truth and taxation decision to uh raise property taxes for 1104 01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:15,280 the year. So that even even with that truth and taxation property tax increase 1105 01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:21,280 were only 15% funded uh by property tax. Next slide. 1106 01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:26,000 revenues. Um, a key highlight here for this year is that we are projecting uh 1107 01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:31,600 more expenses than we are revenues. So, you know, we've discussed at length over 1108 01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:37,440 the last couple years um starting to uh sort of vary from that um long-held 1109 01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:42,400 strategy of maintaining 100%, you know, of a year's operating revenue in our 1110 01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:48,080 general fund. So, we're set to dip below that this year. um sort of by design I 1111 01:27:46,159 --> 01:27:54,080 think for the first time in at least the last little while. Uh the town is mostly 1112 01:27:50,639 --> 01:28:00,239 staff. We all know that. Um uh it's not quite half uh Alpha 1113 01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:04,800 Marshall's office staff. Mike might sort of take umbrage a little bit that we 1114 01:28:01,679 --> 01:28:09,280 don't call out um staff on the admin side, but of course admin time is makes 1115 01:28:07,199 --> 01:28:14,480 up a substantial portion of everything that's under government administration. 1116 01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:20,320 uh uh some of the Alto Justice Court and Lanusen planning. Um so yes, the police 1117 01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:26,560 department obviously is um a little more than half uh the town's budget. Um and 1118 01:28:23,679 --> 01:28:31,199 then you know there are a variety of other expenses that we we cover at the 1119 01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:36,960 town. Um transportation is a pretty pretty big item. It's the third biggest 1120 01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:42,880 uh line item here. A great deal of that is funding for the shuttle and that of 1121 01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:46,960 course that that um is comprised of our general fund our contribution to the 1122 01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:51,639 program and then all the revenue we take in from other sources to fund that 1123 01:28:48,239 --> 01:28:51,639 shuttle program. 1124 01:28:52,320 --> 01:29:00,320 Okay. Uh high level snapshot of the capital projects 1125 01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:06,159 uh plans for the capital projects fund the water and the sewer fund. Um 1126 01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:11,520 we've been doing a better job at projecting outear expenses. Um we're 1127 01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:17,760 much further along in that uh in the water and sewer funds. Uh we know that 1128 01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:24,719 we have a bunch of expensive projects to do in the water and sewer systems out of 1129 01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:30,080 their respective funds um to to cause the water system to provide the fire 1130 01:29:26,719 --> 01:29:35,360 flows that are required and the storage. Um and then the sewer system is 1131 01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:41,360 remarkably functional and um and resilient for a 55-year-old pipe. Uh but 1132 01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:45,760 we we are starting to project some uh projects to maintain and replace both 1133 01:29:43,440 --> 01:29:52,719 the water sewer water system and the sewer system. Um so yeah, our our known 1134 01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:58,639 outlook uh for capital projects is $10.6 $6 1135 01:29:55,920 --> 01:30:02,880 million and that includes a very high level stab at a um budget for a new 1136 01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:09,760 building. We'll talk about more in a second. Uh the these water and sewer 1137 01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:16,000 fund capital projects totals um are more than half the figures on the 1138 01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:23,520 in the column on the right hand side on the top row there. And those are the um 1139 01:30:20,159 --> 01:30:27,199 the high level planning level costs to replace all of the existing 1140 01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:32,239 infrastructure. And we've not begun to program that out. We are not funding 1141 01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:38,400 that deliberately um in the actual fund budgets. Our capital projects planned uh 1142 01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:41,360 are you know essentially aspirational at this point. But we do have the figures 1143 01:30:39,920 --> 01:30:46,600 because we hired some engineers to help us produce them. Um which is a a step 1144 01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,600 forward. 1145 01:30:47,199 --> 01:30:56,960 So this is where um we show capital projects expenses to fund a new 1146 01:30:54,320 --> 01:31:01,280 building. Uh this is the the capital projects plan. 1147 01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:10,000 uh we've not shown many outyear expenses on 1148 01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:15,520 this um this plan in the past and I I think I've I've this has occurred to me 1149 01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:20,080 recently um perhaps it is a lack of planning but I also think I think a big 1150 01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:26,560 part of this is that we've assumed now for like 20 years that we're going to 1151 01:31:23,199 --> 01:31:31,920 tear down a building and replace it. So, why um you know, replace the bumper on 1152 01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:35,679 your 15-year-old Subaru u when you're just you really just ought to buy a new 1153 01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:40,239 Subaru. So, I think that's that's part of why we haven't programmed out 1154 01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:47,280 expenses on our buildings um too much in the past. We do have uh 1155 01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:51,760 1 million uh 1.2 million if you round up of capital expenses in FI26 and the bulk 1156 01:31:49,679 --> 01:31:56,880 of that is um the purchase of this building that that we're now in. Um so 1157 01:31:54,400 --> 01:32:01,520 other than that we have the same kind of um equipment and small fac small work on 1158 01:31:59,440 --> 01:32:04,880 facilities for the marshall's office and the administration that we typically do 1159 01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,360 in a >> Yes sir. 1160 01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:13,040 » I was the the distinguishing thing for me is that in this fund after the 1161 01:32:10,239 --> 01:32:18,880 current fiscal there's really very little else on the horizon to focus on 1162 01:32:16,480 --> 01:32:22,480 other than build the new building. So I think you know the time is right because 1163 01:32:20,639 --> 01:32:27,440 there a real opportunity in the planning process and there aren't a lot of other 1164 01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:32,800 conflicting funding requirements within this fund. It's a great time to design 1165 01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:41,840 and build a new builder as far as the general fund capex fund is concerned. 1166 01:32:37,199 --> 01:32:45,920 So that um that $9 million number it is uh not specific to a project. We haven't 1167 01:32:44,159 --> 01:32:50,480 made a decision just for the camera and the recording. no decisions have been 1168 01:32:47,679 --> 01:32:54,480 made about what the project is, um how much it's going to cost or how we're 1169 01:32:51,679 --> 01:32:58,800 going to pay for it. Uh the way it is represented in the plan shows $3 million 1170 01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:03,440 annually for three years starting in fiscal year 28 and we can't raise that 1171 01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:08,560 revenue on our current revenue structure. We just can't obviously, 1172 01:33:05,199 --> 01:33:12,480 right? Um the water and sewer projects and the water and sewer plans, we're not 1173 01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:18,400 this we're not scratching we're barely scratching the surface on this today. um 1174 01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:22,800 funding those the way they're set forth in the plan, not to mention replacement 1175 01:33:20,719 --> 01:33:28,159 is going to require significant rate increases um or some other mechanism. 1176 01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:32,719 But as of now, all you know, all we've contemplated with any formality is 1177 01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:35,920 essentially raising rates 10 or so percent a year for the next several 1178 01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:38,159 years. >> Make two quick comments about that. 1179 01:33:37,440 --> 01:33:41,440 Yeah, >> I think that the water and sewer fund, 1180 01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:47,120 which I've spent a lot of time thinking about, I think that we don't need to 1181 01:33:44,239 --> 01:33:51,760 make it harder on ourselves uh any harder on ourselves. It's already a 1182 01:33:48,639 --> 01:33:58,159 pretty big lift tackling this stream of projects over time. So, I would 1183 01:33:54,560 --> 01:34:03,840 recommend that we a consider lengthening out the time horizon to maybe 10 to 12 1184 01:34:01,199 --> 01:34:08,560 years to just give us a little more time for the rate increase approach to work. 1185 01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:13,040 when you start to try to stuff it back into six or seven years, then the rate 1186 01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:17,199 increases are going to be north of 20%. If you extend the time the timeline, 1187 01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:21,679 then that's going to help take pressure off the rate increases. So, that would 1188 01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:25,920 make sense to me. And then some of them particularly the water fund I think very 1189 01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:29,920 much the way the projects lay out and you look at the location of the various 1190 01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:34,239 projects and stuff is I think that very much uh 1191 01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:38,639 we should develop a phased approach around which two or three projects is it 1192 01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:44,960 going to make sense to work on at the same time for that funding. 1193 01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:50,320 I think that sounds right on. >> Um, okay. 1194 01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:54,560 Well, what we fund out of the general fund and to a lesser extent water and 1195 01:34:52,000 --> 01:35:00,639 sewer fund is mostly staff. Um, the biggest opportunity I think we have uh 1196 01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:06,159 without substantially redesigning the administration to save money uh from the 1197 01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:10,159 general fund is by defunding the shuttle essentially or finding another if not 1198 01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:13,199 defunding then finding another source of revenue for that shuttle. And there are 1199 01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:18,880 some opportunities that may be unique to the shuttle to do that. Um so I you know 1200 01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:23,760 I think we all generally understand the next steps. We need to refine our 1201 01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:29,760 concept for the new building. Yes. On that note listening to this question 1202 01:35:26,480 --> 01:35:36,480 defunding the shuttle makes sense. I think it can go to the neighbors, 1203 01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:42,560 others, the county to pickups to the people that are renting properties to 1204 01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:49,440 pick up the funding on the shovel. The other biggest thing that's going to help 1205 01:35:45,440 --> 01:35:57,679 turn around the municipal property tax budget for the long hall is the fact 1206 01:35:53,280 --> 01:36:02,880 that a a vast majority of the property in town is presently assess assessed by 1207 01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:09,760 the state tax commission and those revenues go to the state. If you look at 1208 01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:15,600 your quote peers, whether it's in merely in the 1209 01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:20,080 state of Utah or the Wasatch Front, they have all petitioned the state tax 1210 01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:27,840 commission to have the county assessor assess the state the properties that are 1211 01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:33,440 currently taxed by the state tax commission because they're mining codes. 1212 01:36:30,159 --> 01:36:38,080 This is common. This is common place all up and down the Vasach front. And I 1213 01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:45,199 would note that, you know, I've previously noted to Mr. on that uh I was 1214 01:36:42,159 --> 01:36:50,159 going to advocate for this and it's less than popular with property owners 1215 01:36:47,679 --> 01:36:55,760 because when they're holding packed mining claims and they're assessed by 1216 01:36:52,880 --> 01:37:01,760 the state generally uh the the notion has been well the 1217 01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:05,840 state undervalues them because it's a different use and there you pay less 1218 01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:09,760 property tax >> and you know that's all been going on 1219 01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:12,000 that's going to be the biggest thing that's going to turn around your long 1220 01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:16,239 term. >> We're not like I think we can get into 1221 01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:18,639 this a little bit on on the next slide. Let's go to the next slide. I think 1222 01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:22,480 you're talking about growing the base, right? 1223 01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:26,159 » Yeah. Increasing the tax base. So option to raise revenues. I didn't even put 1224 01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:31,199 that on the slide, but um 1225 01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:35,679 right, how do we grow the tax base? economic development. Some are economic 1226 01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:41,440 development um rate uh property value increases. 1227 01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:46,880 There's a note in the Z's bank slides that I'd not considered with regard to 1228 01:37:44,719 --> 01:37:50,159 the actual tax impacts decrease from under a bond. I think maybe we can talk 1229 01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:57,440 a little bit more about that because property values go up and anyways um 1230 01:37:52,719 --> 01:38:02,639 okay so grow the base. Um, we've never we've thought about it a lot, but we 1231 01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:07,520 haven't really tried. Um, some some choices to make. Uh, you know, 1232 01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:12,159 are we going to save up or uh and and either pay as we go or save up um to 1233 01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:17,760 build a building? I think we're all of the mind that we don't have time to do 1234 01:38:14,719 --> 01:38:21,920 that, you know, short of some uh, you know, magic hand of God funding 1235 01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:27,360 mechanism coming our way in the next like 12 months. um which is probably not 1236 01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:33,920 short of borrowing some money or getting a big grant or donation. Um 1237 01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:39,280 we do have uh we we we do still have the 1% local option transit room tax out 1238 01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:44,960 there that we we've not um levied and you know we can decide to levy that to 1239 01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:50,400 um free up fund you know current general fund uh monies that are otherwise 1240 01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:55,840 appropriated now. Um, we can increase the town's municipal property tax either 1241 01:38:53,040 --> 01:39:01,360 by, uh, you know, raising it the way we just did. Um, a general obligation bond 1242 01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:04,639 is typically more or less a property tax increase. Um, water and sewer rates, I 1243 01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:10,480 think you're right on, John, that we really need to think carefully about the 1244 01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:13,679 the frequency of those projects. Um, there are there is some potential for 1245 01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:19,520 modest revenue increases in business license fees and building permit fees. I 1246 01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:28,080 do think there's there's some potential that we could fund the shuttle through 1247 01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:31,040 uh disproportionate impact um type business license fee because I know 1248 01:39:29,440 --> 01:39:37,040 that's done elsewhere in the state, but that's a that's a a tricky subject. Um 1249 01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:42,320 and then of course we can cut expenses uh by you know pursuing administrative 1250 01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:46,239 efficiencies. Craig said as you like. I thought that was um a great way to put 1251 01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:51,920 that in his slides from January. But obviously um when times are tough, we 1252 01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:56,080 will need to cut expenses and we'll just have to um face the music on that when 1253 01:39:54,239 --> 01:39:57,840 we get there. >> Chris, can I point out something about 1254 01:39:57,280 --> 01:39:59,679 the shuttle? >> Yes. 1255 01:39:58,080 --> 01:40:04,159 » Because it keeps coming up. Just to be clear, the town is not funding 100% of 1256 01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:06,480 the shuttle, right? Just want to make sure everybody's 1257 01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:09,440 » clear on that. The >> Does the Snowbird contribute anything to 1258 01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:12,880 the shuttle? >> Um 1259 01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:16,239 » Okay. I didn't carry I >> the night shuttle I think right or 1260 01:40:14,719 --> 01:40:18,480 » oh they just they just 10 >> grand yeah um but 1261 01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:24,000 » 10 grand >> but 1262 01:40:20,159 --> 01:40:28,480 » um yeah but property owners businesses >> the area 1263 01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:34,040 » um off the top I want to >> say it's we we pay 1264 01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:34,040 » we pay about 100 1265 01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:39,440 yeah we we don't cover half of it >> that's a lot more than we were putting 1266 01:40:38,159 --> 01:40:44,159 into it three years ago >> yeah you get 1267 01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:49,440 Um, UTA put us in 50k, >> right? Sooner than previous, 1268 01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:51,360 » but Right. That's always >> something about the transit room tax. 1269 01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:54,960 » Yeah. >> Because like I have been a big proponent 1270 01:40:53,199 --> 01:40:58,400 of doing the transit room tax and I've been on the council for a while, but 1271 01:40:56,480 --> 01:41:01,840 like this 1% heart, I'm a big proponent of it, 1272 01:40:59,199 --> 01:41:05,920 » but I don't know why we haven't done it yet. I will tell you that every 1273 01:41:03,440 --> 01:41:10,400 community around us that's has leveraged it, why we're not doing it, I don't 1274 01:41:07,440 --> 01:41:13,600 know. I also want to say that I feel that our whatever we're going to do 1275 01:41:11,679 --> 01:41:16,960 moving forward is going to be a several things. I don't think there's just going 1276 01:41:15,199 --> 01:41:19,840 to be pick one option. I think it's going to be like transit room tax. 1277 01:41:18,719 --> 01:41:23,600 Obviously, we're going to maybe do something with borrowing and you know 1278 01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:26,400 what we talked about with the water and sewer rates, but I think it's going to 1279 01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:29,920 be a combination of things, but I am a big proponent of doing the 1% transit 1280 01:41:28,159 --> 01:41:33,040 room tax and that is something we can do right now. 1281 01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:36,159 » How much does that turn into? How much how many dollars does that turn into? 1282 01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:40,159 Yeah, that's what >> that was my conservative number. It's 1283 01:41:38,719 --> 01:41:44,800 pretty impossible to >> but whether we decide to like start 1284 01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:48,880 saving now or start using something to like reduce expenses or I feel like the 1285 01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:52,239 transient room tax is something we l we can literally do it now where some of 1286 01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:55,440 this other stuff is going to take us time to figure out. The borrowing is 1287 01:41:53,920 --> 01:42:00,239 going to take us time. Some other stuff we're going to take us time but that we 1288 01:41:57,440 --> 01:42:01,840 can implement now but we have not done it yet. That's what that's what I'm 1289 01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:06,800 asking. >> You had me at TRT. 1290 01:42:05,119 --> 01:42:10,639 Well, I >> you got to think about the order of 1291 01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:14,320 magnitude though. You know the I'm all for doing the tax and we largely haven't 1292 01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:17,600 done it because there's so much lodge push back every time you tinker with 1293 01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:24,239 their structure. >> Um but you know the balance of revenue 1294 01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:30,159 less expenses went $600,000 against us over the last two years. So we went from 1295 01:42:26,719 --> 01:42:35,040 having a modest surplus to um you know this past year uh we had a small deficit 1296 01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:38,960 and there wouldn't have been any capex transfer if there hadn't been use of 1297 01:42:36,719 --> 01:42:43,280 reserve funds and now this year we're going to be three or 4 hundred grand in 1298 01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:49,760 the hole on our just our basic equation of the general fund. So you know that's 1299 01:42:47,440 --> 01:42:55,040 moving pretty swiftly current is moving swiftly against us. So uh we need to 1300 01:42:52,639 --> 01:42:58,480 take action and I think it needs to be of a scale or it's going to have a 1301 01:42:56,480 --> 01:43:03,520 meaningful impact. >> The other thing that frustrates me is 1302 01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:10,400 that the biggest growth item in this town is summer visitation and there we 1303 01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:12,480 have no way of extracting any >> testing. 1304 01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:18,000 » Yeah. which is minimal because it 1305 01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:25,280 » because most of it is pay use and yet it consumes services particularly amo. 1306 01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:28,080 So we're um that's frustrating but I don't know what to do about it. 1307 01:43:26,159 --> 01:43:31,679 » Yeah. Snow pine's doing three week weddings in a weekend 1308 01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:35,119 » but transate room tax. >> Yeah those people are staying there. 1309 01:43:33,199 --> 01:43:38,800 » I think we should put that on for next week. 1310 01:43:36,639 --> 01:43:42,159 » Okay. I don't know if the Forest Service campground would apply to this, but you 1311 01:43:40,639 --> 01:43:45,360 can also do a transit room tax on campgrounds. Forest service might be 1312 01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:48,639 different, but I'm just saying that you can. We have it in the basin. Our 1313 01:43:46,719 --> 01:43:52,080 marshals do patrol up there. And the reason I keep talking about the 1314 01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:55,040 transient room tax, and I know Mory's over here clapping his hands, but the 1315 01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:58,159 people that come and stay here, like how many people broke Inner Lodge from the 1316 01:43:56,639 --> 01:44:02,480 lodges last year that the marshals had to deal with? They were lodge guests. 1317 01:44:00,719 --> 01:44:05,440 And so that's kind of what it's like this transit room taxing. I know I keep 1318 01:44:04,159 --> 01:44:07,520 beating it down, but I'm like, why have we not done this yet? Anyways, 1319 01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:12,880 » we also >> let's make it 2%. 1320 01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:17,119 » And then that way we save our money. >> You touched on it briefly, the revenue 1321 01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:22,880 aspect going against us, too. That went against us 300,000 bucks. Um, and you 1322 01:44:20,719 --> 01:44:26,800 know, in the long run, Mike keeps saying that, yeah, we're continue to see this 1323 01:44:24,639 --> 01:44:31,280 shift in migration to the less expensive path projects. 1324 01:44:29,119 --> 01:44:37,440 A lot of those were not getting sales tax on the redemption by the icon pass. 1325 01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:42,239 » Are we getting screwed there? >> And and that's I think a long-term thing 1326 01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:46,239 that is would really change the dynamic because you talk about hundreds of 1327 01:44:43,679 --> 01:44:51,360 thousands of dollars different. So that's a good worth addressing. 1328 01:44:48,239 --> 01:44:56,639 » Okay. I think we need to pivot to our keynote. I know I didn't ask you to do a 1329 01:44:53,360 --> 01:45:00,800 keynote. um grants and philanthropy. They're out 1330 01:44:58,480 --> 01:45:03,920 there. I I'll I'll leave that there for now. We can talk about it more in the 1331 01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:09,920 future. So, it's my pleasure to introduce uh Mark Anderson and Janette 1332 01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:13,600 Harris from Zans's Bank Public Finance. And these guys will um they've you've 1333 01:45:12,159 --> 01:45:17,920 got some slides that you may have been able to review. We'll talk through them. 1334 01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:23,280 Um there's a lot of information on these slides. it's heavily geared towards um 1335 01:45:21,280 --> 01:45:30,400 essentially debt financing and different ways um to arrange that. Uh Zans Bank of 1336 01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:36,960 course is in the bond market and they they serve as a as municipal advisor. So 1337 01:45:33,119 --> 01:45:42,000 if we decide to pursue um a bond issuance or some other kind of debt 1338 01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:45,760 financing, we we we could engage Zan's public finance as a municipal adviser. 1339 01:45:44,239 --> 01:45:51,280 we are going to need to have a municipal advisor and um Dian's bank as a a 1340 01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:55,760 potential um vendor of those services to us. So I guess see with that you guys 1341 01:45:54,719 --> 01:46:01,040 stay away Julie just >> quick note we um will need to just 1342 01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:05,360 extend our meeting by about 15 minutes or so. So I know lunch is going to come 1343 01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:10,560 and you know we can decide if you guys want to start um before we finish but 1344 01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:13,920 we'll plan on meeting till at least 12:15. 1345 01:46:12,159 --> 01:46:18,480 Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. 1346 01:46:16,320 --> 01:46:24,880 » Well, it uh I'm Mark Anderson. It's certainly a pleasure to uh be with the 1347 01:46:21,199 --> 01:46:31,199 Alto Town Council today and uh it's uh we appreciate the opportunity to to 1348 01:46:27,199 --> 01:46:36,800 share some of our expertise on financing municipal projects. Um I'll introduce 1349 01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:41,600 myself then I'll let Janette introduce herself. Um, I've been with Zans's 1350 01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:48,480 public finance for about uh a little over seven years. Uh, I have a degree in 1351 01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:53,679 accounting. I'm a CPA and uh, prior to uh, working for Zans, I was the city 1352 01:46:51,679 --> 01:46:58,560 manager in Hebrew for 20 years and the finance director for eight years prior 1353 01:46:55,360 --> 01:47:05,760 to that. So, I I've I've lived in your shoes and I know what it's like to run a 1354 01:47:02,639 --> 01:47:11,119 municipal government and understand some of the challenges that you face uh 1355 01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:14,159 funding projects. I'm going to let Janette introduce 1356 01:47:12,639 --> 01:47:17,679 herself and we'll kind of tag team through this presentation. 1357 01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:22,159 » Great. Yeah, my name is Janette Harris. I have been with Science Public Finance 1358 01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:27,520 about 15 years and before that I was with a different um investment banking 1359 01:47:24,239 --> 01:47:33,840 firm for about five years. I have worked in the kind of the whole gamut of um 1360 01:47:31,440 --> 01:47:40,400 kind of the municipal spectrum doing both consulting and on the bond side. My 1361 01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:44,239 degree is in economics. So I also did some economic consulting. I actually did 1362 01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:50,000 some consulting for Alta years and years ago. So I'm really happy to be back with 1363 01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:55,280 you guys again. So I have worked with pretty much almost every not every but 1364 01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:59,760 probably 80% of the municipalities in the state and so really grateful here to 1365 01:47:57,520 --> 01:48:02,080 be with you guys. Happy to answer any questions you have. 1366 01:48:00,639 --> 01:48:06,520 » I remember when you came. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. 1367 01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:10,400 » Go ahead. >> Science has done our business license 1368 01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:12,080 studies and they did a >> That's what it was. It was the business 1369 01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:14,719 license. >> Janette did our waste management study. 1370 01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:20,320 Yeah, I wasn't sure >> years ago. Yeah, he wasn't sure. He 1371 01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:26,000 wanted to bring that one up. But >> so let's just talk about ways that 1372 01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:32,400 public f projects are financed. Go ahead. So, as Chris talked about 1373 01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:38,560 earlier, we can save up and set aside. We can pay as we go. uh we can seek out 1374 01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:44,239 grant or philanthropy uh philanthropic donations 1375 01:48:41,679 --> 01:48:54,000 or we can use debt or a combination of any of those uh to fund projects. Go 1376 01:48:47,679 --> 01:49:00,239 ahead. So each of these uh uh uh methods have different uh pros and cons. The pay 1377 01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:04,560 of the advantage of going doing pay as you go is you don't have to pay 1378 01:49:01,679 --> 01:49:10,320 interest. But sometimes it takes a long time to complete a project. And uh you 1379 01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:17,440 know most recently we've seen inflation costs rising so rapidly that uh the cost 1380 01:49:14,719 --> 01:49:22,639 of inflation is much worse than the cost of capital. Uh and so if you can fix 1381 01:49:20,480 --> 01:49:28,000 your your borrowing rate and do a project sooner, there's has we've seen 1382 01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:33,760 it advantageous to do that if you have the revenue streams to make the debt 1383 01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:37,679 service payment. Uh uh save up and set aside 1384 01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:42,000 uh usually takes a long time, but you don't have to pay interest. Uh you can 1385 01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:47,280 earn interest on the monies that you uh have saved, but you're still subject to 1386 01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:52,719 the risks of inflation. And some projects just really can't be done uh 1387 01:49:50,320 --> 01:49:58,880 pay as you go a piece at a time. You can't it's hard to build a new uh city 1388 01:49:55,840 --> 01:50:05,840 uh facility, you know, over a 10-year period. It's not practical. Uh grants uh 1389 01:50:03,119 --> 01:50:13,920 are great, but they're uh we find very hard to come by. Uh and uh if you do 1390 01:50:11,600 --> 01:50:19,920 obtain a grant, chances are there are some strings attached that you have to 1391 01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:25,040 comply with and sometimes it's difficult to uh go through the uh qualification 1392 01:50:23,119 --> 01:50:33,520 process. Uh we think debt financing does the best 1393 01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:37,760 job of matching the uh the people who use the project and the people who pay 1394 01:50:35,199 --> 01:50:41,600 for projects. If you save up for 20 years and build a project, the people 1395 01:50:40,159 --> 01:50:46,800 who have been paying for the last 20 years may not be the ultimate 1396 01:50:43,199 --> 01:50:50,800 beneficiaries of the project. Um, it allows you to complete the project 1397 01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:59,199 immediately. Uh, but it does require you to pay interest. So, next slide. So, 1398 01:50:54,480 --> 01:51:07,840 municipal bonds are basically IUS where you uh borrow money from a lender and 1399 01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:13,040 use the uh use those uh uh proceeds to construct a project and in turn you make 1400 01:51:10,639 --> 01:51:18,400 bond payments back to the investors that purchased your bonds. 1401 01:51:15,840 --> 01:51:22,560 And if you have questions along the way, feel free. Uh there are several 1402 01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:30,719 different types of bonds that can be issued. I'm going to focus more on 1403 01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:36,560 uh probably the top four on that list. Unlimited tax general obligation. That's 1404 01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:45,360 a geo bond that requires voter voter approval. Uh and uh it gives this town 1405 01:51:41,599 --> 01:51:48,639 the right to increase property taxes uh sufficient to make the debt service 1406 01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:55,199 payments on an annual basis over the life of the bond. Typically, we see uh 1407 01:51:51,920 --> 01:52:03,440 geo bonds issued for a 20-year period. Uh utility revenue uh bonds uh just 1408 01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:09,040 require a resolution by the elected body and you would typically pledge the net 1409 01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:15,760 revenues of the system which you're making improvements on whether it be 1410 01:52:10,639 --> 01:52:20,800 water or sewer or storm drain. Uh and uh usually there's coverage requirements 1411 01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:24,960 that Janette will talk about uh so that you can guarantee that you have adequate 1412 01:52:22,639 --> 01:52:30,800 funds to make the debt service payments. Excise tax revenues. Uh examples of 1413 01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:37,599 those are sales tax, franchise tax, class road funds. Uh sales tax probably 1414 01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:43,920 being the most popular. Uh, and it just requires a resolution of the town 1415 01:52:39,440 --> 01:52:51,840 council to uh issue a uh an excise tax bond. 1416 01:52:47,599 --> 01:52:57,599 A lease revenues slash capital lease is where uh the asset that's being 1417 01:52:55,440 --> 01:53:04,719 constructed or purchased is the collateral for the bond. that there's 1418 01:53:00,480 --> 01:53:08,560 not a a rate covenant that uh or a covenant from the taxpayer saying that 1419 01:53:06,639 --> 01:53:13,199 they agree to have the property taxes increase sufficient to make the debt 1420 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:19,280 service payments. Um and those types of lease are subject to 1421 01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:23,760 annual appropriation. You can say I don't want to continue making payments 1422 01:53:21,040 --> 01:53:30,400 on this, but the consequences are you lose the asset and it it's uh not good 1423 01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:35,440 for your credit long term. So it's not a a road I we would encourage anybody to 1424 01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:40,880 go down of defaulting on a a a lease revenue model. 1425 01:53:37,599 --> 01:53:47,920 A special assessment are typically uh where uh an improvement is being made 1426 01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:53,920 within a specific area of the community and the taxpayers that benefit from that 1427 01:53:49,920 --> 01:54:02,159 improvement. Uh a majority of those 60% plus agree to be assessed. 1428 01:53:58,639 --> 01:54:11,679 uh for their proportionate uh uh benefit and uh 1429 01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:17,119 uh sometimes these are uh assessed with your property taxes and sometimes uh 1430 01:54:14,159 --> 01:54:23,199 separately through another mechanism. uh the the value of the improvement has 1431 01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:26,719 to be at least three times the value I mean the value of the improved property 1432 01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:33,320 that are being assessed has to be at least three times the value of the uh 1433 01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:38,960 amount of money that's what going to be borrowed 1434 01:54:36,639 --> 01:54:44,320 uh tax increment those are uh tax increments usually generated when RDAs 1435 01:54:41,199 --> 01:54:49,280 are created where you have a base value in property taxes is and you're going to 1436 01:54:48,159 --> 01:54:51,679 do something to >> RDA is read honorary. 1437 01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:56,080 » Yes, I'm sorry. >> That's right. 1438 01:54:52,639 --> 01:55:04,000 » I sometimes I forget my audience. >> Um uh you have a base taxable value and 1439 01:54:59,840 --> 01:55:09,440 you're going to do something to uh to in incentivize 1440 01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:14,000 new development. And as your taxable tax base increases based on new development 1441 01:55:11,520 --> 01:55:18,400 that occurs, some of that property tax is capped. the new property tax is 1442 01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:22,880 captured uh and come backs to the comes back to the redevelopment agent. See 1443 01:55:20,159 --> 01:55:29,520 that can in some cases could be used for debt service. 1444 01:55:25,040 --> 01:55:34,320 uh limited tax general obligation is what we're seeing most of that is with 1445 01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:39,440 public infrastructure districts where if a public infrastructure district is 1446 01:55:36,239 --> 01:55:44,719 created it's usually done by a developer with the idea of trying to get access to 1447 01:55:42,320 --> 01:55:55,199 less expensive capital because they can issue taxexempt bonds for uh municipal 1448 01:55:50,320 --> 01:56:00,239 uh facilities roads water sewer etc. and the people that uh you know the 1449 01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:06,960 benefited area agrees to be subject to a property tax 1450 01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:15,119 that can be up to 15 mills. Uh and uh uh probably not something I would 1451 01:56:11,119 --> 01:56:19,679 expect out of town to do. Uh we have seen some government entities issue 1452 01:56:16,719 --> 01:56:23,440 public infrastructure district bonds that are not development related or that 1453 01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:28,880 that are development related like the point of the mountain authority and uh 1454 01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:38,719 uh yeah yeah Utah and Port. 1455 01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:42,639 Uh lastly, uh some entities uh are very tax 1456 01:56:40,239 --> 01:56:47,520 dependent, say fire districts that may have their only source of revenue as 1457 01:56:44,639 --> 01:56:54,480 property taxes. So sometimes they issue tax antip anticipation notes that uh say 1458 01:56:52,320 --> 01:56:58,880 we're going to borrow money in July because we know we don't have enough 1459 01:56:56,880 --> 01:57:03,280 cash to make it through the full fiscal year. uh but we'll when our property tax 1460 01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:08,639 will come in, we'll pay it off. So, it's usually a short-term note and and you 1461 01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:13,920 can do that with uh other revenue sources, other property taxes as well. 1462 01:57:11,360 --> 01:57:19,040 But all those other uh other than the general obligation bond, all those other 1463 01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:24,719 uh types of bonds can be issued by a resolution adopted by the town council. 1464 01:57:22,080 --> 01:57:28,960 Next slide. So, advantages to holding a general 1465 01:57:26,560 --> 01:57:33,840 obligation bond election. And and some of these comments about 1466 01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:39,119 interest rates re relate primarily to the public market in that uh they 1467 01:57:36,960 --> 01:57:44,480 provide the lowest interest rate because the this the guarantee for the repayment 1468 01:57:41,920 --> 01:57:49,280 is so strong where the property owners have agreed to have their property taxes 1469 01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:53,599 increased an amount sufficient to make the debt payments. 1470 01:57:51,119 --> 01:57:58,000 uh it doesn't impact town revenues because it's a new source of revenue 1471 01:57:56,080 --> 01:58:07,679 that comes from the implementation of the tax uh for the bond only. Uh and as 1472 01:58:03,840 --> 01:58:14,080 the value of the town's uh the town's taxable value increases, the impact to 1473 01:58:10,719 --> 01:58:20,960 individual t taxpayers would decline. If you're in a fast growing community, you 1474 01:58:17,199 --> 01:58:24,400 could see your that burden go down fairly quickly. If you're in a pretty 1475 01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:31,760 stagnant, it wouldn't probably change much. Uh it allows voter input, which uh 1476 01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:35,920 is a double-edged sword sometimes. Um 1477 01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:41,280 uh disadvantages to holding a geo bond election. uh you can only hold a bottle 1478 01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:47,119 actually on lunch a year which increases your your interest rate risk if you have 1479 01:58:43,440 --> 01:58:50,800 to wait till November of every year and you may be in a environment where 1480 01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:57,040 interest rates are rising appear to be rising rapidly to have to wait may cost 1481 01:58:53,440 --> 01:59:02,159 you a higher interest rate. Uh they are hard to pass. 1482 01:58:58,960 --> 01:59:07,119 Uh, and if they fail and you still have the the town still feels a need to 1483 01:59:04,239 --> 01:59:11,440 complete the project, then you may lose some favor with the citizens if you 1484 01:59:09,199 --> 01:59:16,159 figure out another way to if you just raise property taxes or some other uh 1485 01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:21,679 method to generate the revenue you need to to do the needed project. And as I 1486 01:59:19,679 --> 01:59:27,280 said, uh, it also allows voter input, which is uh, which like I say is a 1487 01:59:25,280 --> 01:59:31,719 double-edged sword. So next slide please. 1488 01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:35,880 So uh 1489 01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:43,920 » what's that? >> This is my favorite slide. Thi this is 1490 01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:51,679 uh something that uh the uh person that was the head of our office generated 1491 01:59:48,239 --> 01:59:56,480 uh four or five years ago based on 20 plus years of experience 1492 01:59:53,920 --> 02:00:02,239 working with communities on general uh geo bonds 1493 01:59:58,560 --> 02:00:06,320 and uh that is to to be successful to pass a geo bond you need to have unified 1494 02:00:04,639 --> 02:00:10,080 support from the council if you're divided 1495 02:00:08,400 --> 02:00:14,159 It's hard. These are hard enough to pass as it is, but if you're divided as a 1496 02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:19,280 council, it's going to be very difficult to pass. And you need to be able to make 1497 02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:22,560 sure the voters understand what the need is. And if if you're not being able to 1498 02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:25,119 communicate that, you need to communicate until they at least 1499 02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:29,840 understand. They may not agree, but at least they understand the logic behind 1500 02:00:27,280 --> 02:00:34,080 what you're trying to accomplish. And if you have critics, you know, bring 1501 02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:42,800 them in early, help them understand the project as well. And uh uh oft times as 1502 02:00:40,239 --> 02:00:48,080 financial adviserss on on projects, we bring in the Utah State Tax I mean the 1503 02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:52,719 Utah Taxpayers Association and sit down with the community and say this is this 1504 02:00:51,040 --> 02:00:57,840 is our project and this is why we're doing this and as they become more 1505 02:00:55,679 --> 02:01:02,719 informed, they're less likely to be a critic of your project. 1506 02:01:00,159 --> 02:01:08,800 Uh campaign within legal constraints. you know this the communities uh 1507 02:01:05,599 --> 02:01:15,360 prohibited from spending funds to promote the election. Uh but there are 1508 02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:20,719 ways you can educate uh along the process and and in a minute I'll talk 1509 02:01:18,320 --> 02:01:26,639 about I think a successful campaign that took place close by here last year. Uh 1510 02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:32,400 the higher the tax impact the less the more difficult it is to pass. 1511 02:01:29,199 --> 02:01:39,119 Uh and then lastly, uh I I think our our mantra is if we're 1512 02:01:35,679 --> 02:01:42,880 to successfully pass a geo bond, you need to 1513 02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:47,199 are be able to establish a need, provide a reasonable solution, and propose a 1514 02:01:45,199 --> 02:01:53,280 reasonable cost. And uh so let me let me talk about uh 1515 02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:58,719 two bond elections that I was involved in last year. One being Midway City open 1516 02:01:56,080 --> 02:02:05,119 space bond for $5 million. tax impact wasn't very big and it was the second of 1517 02:02:02,080 --> 02:02:10,719 uh $5 million geo bond that they passed for open space preservation. 1518 02:02:08,000 --> 02:02:17,040 They have a pretty decent tax base and and this the city uh had shown uh that 1519 02:02:15,520 --> 02:02:22,800 they were good stewards with the first $5 million and the citizens uh liked 1520 02:02:20,159 --> 02:02:28,400 what was happening and voted to support the second round of that. But uh the 1521 02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:35,199 next one was Cottonwood Heights. Cottonwood Heights uh has a vision for a 1522 02:02:31,599 --> 02:02:42,000 community uh gathering spot they're calling the Heights and and uh they uh 1523 02:02:39,599 --> 02:02:47,119 were able to get pass a $30 million bond with a 30-year uh term on it, which 1524 02:02:45,440 --> 02:02:51,440 usually we don't see terms that long. And uh 1525 02:02:49,119 --> 02:02:56,880 I would say that Cottonwood Heights did all of those last steps very well. I as 1526 02:02:54,960 --> 02:03:02,880 a financial adviser, I wasn't real optimistic that it was going to be able 1527 02:02:58,719 --> 02:03:09,679 to pass, but the community uh got the support and and essentially each person 1528 02:03:07,119 --> 02:03:17,119 that voted for that or each household has agreed to pay about $5,000 over the 1529 02:03:12,159 --> 02:03:20,400 next 30 years for this uh community. >> And that's essentially the mixed use 1530 02:03:18,800 --> 02:03:25,440 commercial development, but some civic components. 1531 02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:29,599 » Yes. commercial residential and >> we helped him with the purchase of the 1532 02:03:27,280 --> 02:03:37,280 old RE store that had been abandoned in that 10acre site. And then the vision 1533 02:03:33,679 --> 02:03:43,679 was to have a a public private, you know, have some restaurants and uh 1534 02:03:41,440 --> 02:03:48,960 uh maybe high density housing, parking structure, etc. 1535 02:03:46,000 --> 02:03:54,239 uh and they were able to create a a committee within the community, create 1536 02:03:51,280 --> 02:04:00,320 the vision and and made many opportunities to educate the uh the 1537 02:03:56,560 --> 02:04:05,840 community along the way. So if you if you want to see a good example of of 1538 02:04:03,679 --> 02:04:10,440 putting those steps into place, I think Cottonwood Heights is a good example of 1539 02:04:07,440 --> 02:04:10,440 that. 1540 02:04:10,880 --> 02:04:16,320 » I don't you know I don't work with Mil Creek. I don't know if they passed a geo 1541 02:04:14,400 --> 02:04:20,760 bond or not. >> I'm not sure. 1542 02:04:17,360 --> 02:04:20,760 » I think they 1543 02:04:22,239 --> 02:04:25,400 and then 1544 02:04:25,440 --> 02:04:32,719 » I hear you're wrong. I I don't know but uh bond election timellays and this is 1545 02:04:30,400 --> 02:04:41,920 high level and it this is this is the steps that that uh from the 2024 1546 02:04:37,360 --> 02:04:47,040 uh but basically uh if you want to hold a geo bond election the council needs to 1547 02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:52,000 adopt a resolution ele a bond election resolution by 1548 02:04:49,199 --> 02:04:55,840 approximately mid August if you want to be on the November 1549 02:04:53,360 --> 02:05:00,800 ballot. uh you have to submit a copy of that to the lieutenant governor's 1550 02:04:57,440 --> 02:05:06,880 office. Uh you need to hold a public hearing to discuss the town's intent to 1551 02:05:02,639 --> 02:05:12,320 issue bonds. Uh if eligible voters want to put an argument against the issuance 1552 02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:19,040 of the bond, they have to do so 65 days before the election. the governing body 1553 02:05:14,880 --> 02:05:25,599 has to put together a uh educational I guess a pro uh 1554 02:05:23,920 --> 02:05:31,440 I mean argument in favor of the ballot proposition why they're proposing it and 1555 02:05:28,719 --> 02:05:38,480 then if there is uh someone that wants to put a argument against 1556 02:05:34,719 --> 02:05:42,960 then you can uh rebut each one's comments in both cases that I talked 1557 02:05:40,960 --> 02:05:47,440 about last year neither one had anyone that submitted 1558 02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:50,400 an argument against. >> Can I ask a question because I don't 1559 02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:55,360 understand this a little bit. Is so is the election like everybody that's an 1560 02:05:53,440 --> 02:06:00,480 eligible voter elects or is it just the property owners that have the election? 1561 02:05:58,000 --> 02:06:03,679 » It's all the registered voters within the community. 1562 02:06:02,960 --> 02:06:07,599 » Yes, sir. >> In the uh just the mechanics of it a 1563 02:06:06,400 --> 02:06:13,360 little bit because you know we think about like we actually then build the 1564 02:06:09,199 --> 02:06:18,159 bowling. Do you do we draw down the money as we need it and the construction 1565 02:06:15,440 --> 02:06:21,760 bills come due or do you say here's your money and then 1566 02:06:19,760 --> 02:06:25,920 » we're spending it over the next 6 to9 months and and we're paying you interest 1567 02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:30,000 on the money during that time or do you have like a construction portion or 1568 02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:35,280 facility? I would say normally the bonds are 1569 02:06:32,880 --> 02:06:41,440 issued in their entirety if the project is going to you know commence and then 1570 02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:46,239 uh the bond proceeds are typically held by a trustee that reinvest them under 1571 02:06:44,560 --> 02:06:51,440 your direction but typically that's with the state treasur's office which is 1572 02:06:48,000 --> 02:06:55,440 earning you know 4.3 or 4% interest right now. 1573 02:06:52,159 --> 02:06:58,320 » Oh so a similar rate to the rate that you're paying. So there's not a big 1574 02:06:56,960 --> 02:07:01,360 negative arbitrage. They have >> that there's not a big difference right 1575 02:07:00,560 --> 02:07:05,719 now. >> Yeah. 1576 02:07:02,719 --> 02:07:05,719 » So 1577 02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:10,639 Cottonwood Heights, they borrowed 20 million. 1578 02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:16,560 Some of their bonds had to be issued taxable because of the private benefit 1579 02:07:13,840 --> 02:07:21,440 that they anticipate. And we really haven't, the project's not 1580 02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:26,079 so mature that we know exactly how that final allocation of of public versus 1581 02:07:24,320 --> 02:07:31,360 private benefits going to work out. So, we issued $20 million 1582 02:07:28,480 --> 02:07:36,480 uh in May and the other $10 million will be issued when they're further along 1583 02:07:33,199 --> 02:07:43,040 with their uh development partner. >> But Zans's issued the money. We uh we 1584 02:07:40,560 --> 02:07:49,119 took them to the public market which means we you know uh Janette drafted the 1585 02:07:46,639 --> 02:07:56,079 official statement that goes out uh with the public offering and uh we sold uh 1586 02:07:53,199 --> 02:07:59,679 hired an underwriter and uh well we sold the bonds competitively 1587 02:07:58,239 --> 02:08:03,920 in the public market. >> So we won't worry so much about the 1588 02:08:01,599 --> 02:08:09,280 timing lag of spending the money versus the issue. because our reinvestment 1589 02:08:06,639 --> 02:08:14,400 value will be similar or potentially even higher than the rate we're paying. 1590 02:08:12,800 --> 02:08:21,119 » Uh correct. I mean, uh bonds issued in 20 1591 02:08:18,000 --> 02:08:26,159 to 20 2020 to 2022 have some real positive arbitrage problems if they 1592 02:08:22,960 --> 02:08:32,639 haven't been spent right now because, you know, I issued a bond at 1.36% for a 1593 02:08:29,199 --> 02:08:37,760 school district in Kain County in 2020. So, um, 1594 02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:41,119 but if you spend the the proceeds fast enough, you don't have there's spendown 1595 02:08:39,760 --> 02:08:48,159 tests that you don't have to pay the arbitrage back to the IRS. 1596 02:08:43,599 --> 02:08:53,040 So, um, let's see. You have to send voter information panel 1597 02:08:50,079 --> 02:08:56,560 to each household. Uh, you have to post the arguments on the state voter 1598 02:08:54,960 --> 02:09:01,280 information website, the town website, and the town newsletter. Uh, and then 1599 02:08:59,840 --> 02:09:04,960 the governing body needs to hold a public hearing between four and 45 days 1600 02:09:03,199 --> 02:09:09,199 before the election. And then the election, it's held the first Tuesday 1601 02:09:06,960 --> 02:09:13,920 after the first Monday in November. And then you have to canvas the election 1602 02:09:10,639 --> 02:09:17,760 within the next 14 seven to 14 days. But I think probably the most important 1603 02:09:15,360 --> 02:09:21,119 thing for you to know right now is if we want to do this, you need to be ready by 1604 02:09:19,360 --> 02:09:23,760 August. Yeah. >> Jen, how many registered voters do we 1605 02:09:22,639 --> 02:09:27,079 have right now? >> Under 150. 1606 02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:35,760 So, um, I'm gonna let Janette take it from here for right now. 1607 02:09:33,440 --> 02:09:39,920 » Okay. So, are there any more questions though before I move on? Okay, great. 1608 02:09:38,159 --> 02:09:43,440 So, the next couple slides, I'm just going to talk to you just a little bit 1609 02:09:41,119 --> 02:09:49,599 more detail about the types of bonds that Mark introduced you to. So, he 1610 02:09:46,800 --> 02:09:55,760 talked about utility revenue bonds. So, that would be a sewer revenue bond or a 1611 02:09:52,400 --> 02:10:01,199 water revenue bond. And with a utility revenue bond, what you're doing is 1612 02:09:58,239 --> 02:10:05,599 pledging your utility revenues. So a sewer revenue bond, you're saying our 1613 02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:10,239 pledge is whatever revenues that we get from our sewer fees. So Mark talked to 1614 02:10:08,560 --> 02:10:13,920 you about interest rates a little bit. So with the general obligation bond, 1615 02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:16,800 you're going to get the highest rating and you're going to get the lowest 1616 02:10:15,119 --> 02:10:21,199 interest rate because basically you are saying we will do whatever it takes to 1617 02:10:19,280 --> 02:10:26,000 make these payments. Even if we have to charge a 50% property tax, we're going 1618 02:10:23,679 --> 02:10:29,920 to make payments on the bond. With a utility revenue bond, you're not saying 1619 02:10:27,760 --> 02:10:33,119 that. You're saying, "Look, here's what we're currently charging for our sewer 1620 02:10:31,679 --> 02:10:36,639 fees." Usually, you'll say, "Here's what we've charged in the last couple years. 1621 02:10:35,119 --> 02:10:40,560 We're planning on increasing them every year, whatever. Here's our revenues. 1622 02:10:38,719 --> 02:10:44,560 They're a good source. They're a good source of revenue. Here's what we're 1623 02:10:42,079 --> 02:10:49,840 pledging." And so, your interest rates will be based on the type of pledge that 1624 02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:54,239 you make. In addition to that, you need to say 1625 02:10:51,840 --> 02:11:00,400 our revenues not only cover our expenses, they cover more than our 1626 02:10:57,119 --> 02:11:07,840 expenses. So with a utility bond, it has to be a 1.25 coverage, which means you 1627 02:11:03,679 --> 02:11:11,440 need to be bringing in 125% of whatever your debt service is. Okay? 1628 02:11:10,079 --> 02:11:16,320 » After paying operating >> after paying operating expenses. Thank 1629 02:11:13,280 --> 02:11:20,639 you. Net net revenue coverage. So advantages you see it's a reliable 1630 02:11:18,880 --> 02:11:24,560 source of revenue right people are generally going to pay their their 1631 02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:30,320 utility bills and if they don't they get they get their service shut out right so 1632 02:11:27,679 --> 02:11:36,320 uh you need a resol a resolution as Mark talked about adopted by the town council 1633 02:11:33,280 --> 02:11:40,320 negatives so if you have a sewer revenue bond the revenues that you're using to 1634 02:11:38,000 --> 02:11:44,480 pay the bond are your sewer revenues right you're not going to pull in your 1635 02:11:41,599 --> 02:11:50,320 sales tax it's those revenues and we talked about interest Great. Okay, let's 1636 02:11:46,079 --> 02:11:54,639 go to the next slide. Okay, so sales tax excise sales tax revenue bonds, they 1637 02:11:52,320 --> 02:12:00,000 work the same way. So, you're pledging your sales tax revenue, specifically 1638 02:11:57,040 --> 02:12:04,560 sales tax. So, um, Salt Lake County, for example, we're working with them right 1639 02:12:01,599 --> 02:12:10,159 now to issue about 125 million in the marketplace of sales tax revenue bonds, 1640 02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:15,360 and they're using that to purchase the new uh, overstock building that's now 1641 02:12:12,239 --> 02:12:18,880 going to be the new uh, Salt Lake County government center. And kind of 1642 02:12:17,280 --> 02:12:22,639 interesting to kind of hear you guys talk about your government center and 1643 02:12:21,199 --> 02:12:26,719 what you want to do and how you want to do it because Salt Lake County went 1644 02:12:24,320 --> 02:12:30,159 through a huge study to go, do we keep it? Do we knock it down? Do we lease 1645 02:12:28,480 --> 02:12:33,760 them out? Do we have some private? What revenue can we get from the private 1646 02:12:31,679 --> 02:12:38,000 revenues? And in the end, what worked for them was just buying a new building 1647 02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:44,320 in a new location. And they're issuing these sales tax revenue bonds to do 1648 02:12:40,239 --> 02:12:49,440 that. Okay. So, same thing with your utility revenue bonds. You have to have 1649 02:12:46,320 --> 02:12:54,000 some kind of coverage factor more than just your debt service, right? So you 1650 02:12:51,599 --> 02:12:57,760 see here, typically with sales tax or excise revenue bonds, you're going to 1651 02:12:55,440 --> 02:13:05,520 have one and a half times uh to two times coverage. Okay, next slide. 1652 02:13:02,480 --> 02:13:09,360 Lease revenue bonds. Okay, so with your utility revenue bonds and 1653 02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:13,679 your sales tax revenue bonds, you're pledging the revenues. With a lease 1654 02:13:11,679 --> 02:13:18,800 revenue bond, you're pledging the asset itself. So you would need to set up a 1655 02:13:16,320 --> 02:13:26,239 building authority. It's the building authority that actually issues the 1656 02:13:21,040 --> 02:13:31,280 bonds. The town leases it from the um from the building authority. Mark talked 1657 02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:38,880 about the annual appropriation. So what happens is the town council annually 1658 02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:42,079 appropriates the funds to be able to uh make the payment on the bond. So 1659 02:13:40,719 --> 02:13:45,679 basically they're paying the lease, right? You're paying the lease to the 1660 02:13:44,159 --> 02:13:51,040 town council. These are a little more more complicated um because it is a 1661 02:13:48,239 --> 02:13:56,239 lease revenue. You have more documents. Um who owns the land? Are there ground 1662 02:13:53,760 --> 02:14:03,040 leases? All that kind of thing. But lease revenue bonds are actually used 1663 02:13:58,719 --> 02:14:06,639 quite a bit. Um the state actually uses um lease revenue bonds to build their 1664 02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:10,639 liquor stores. They have the building authority actually issue them and and 1665 02:14:08,639 --> 02:14:14,320 lease them that way. But school districts also are using lease revenue 1666 02:14:12,639 --> 02:14:19,440 bonds quite a bit because they have to build new schools and publics aren't 1667 02:14:16,719 --> 02:14:23,520 always approving um higher taxes on the general obligations. So sometimes they 1668 02:14:21,920 --> 02:14:30,239 will issue lease revenue bonds to build a new school. So um it it can work well 1669 02:14:28,719 --> 02:14:34,480 when it's funded because you can use whatever source you want, right? It's 1670 02:14:32,079 --> 02:14:38,560 just the town council going, "Yes, we're going to appropriate, 1671 02:14:36,239 --> 02:14:42,719 you know, 200,000 or whatever to make the lease payments on the lease revenue 1672 02:14:40,320 --> 02:14:47,360 bonds, but that revenue can come from wherever." 1673 02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:51,440 Um, disadvantages, it is subject to annual appropriation. Interest rates 1674 02:14:49,280 --> 02:14:56,560 higher than if it's a Geo bond. Title insurance is required, lease agreements, 1675 02:14:54,239 --> 02:15:02,320 um, no new revenues generated to aid payment of debt. Okay, next slide. 1676 02:14:59,840 --> 02:15:06,639 special assessment areas. So Mark talked a little bit about those. We actually 1677 02:15:04,159 --> 02:15:12,239 administer a lot of special assessment areas. So I don't know if you guys are 1678 02:15:08,239 --> 02:15:17,360 familiar with Red Les up in Heber. So Red Ledges is a special assessment area. 1679 02:15:15,199 --> 02:15:22,480 So, they went to Twin Creek Special Service District when they were getting 1680 02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:26,239 ready to develop um to see if they would be willing to issue the bonds to put in 1681 02:15:24,159 --> 02:15:30,880 the water and sewer infrastructure because Twin Creek Special Service 1682 02:15:28,480 --> 02:15:35,520 District can take their rating and issue the bonds with a lot higher rating, so a 1683 02:15:33,599 --> 02:15:39,199 lower interest rate than if the developer just issued a basically a dirt 1684 02:15:37,679 --> 02:15:43,440 bond, right? Because the only collateral they had was the dirt. So, Twin Creek 1685 02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:49,840 Special Service District issued the bonds on behalf of Red Les. Then each 1686 02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:54,320 property pays the assessment. So, with a special assessment bond, it's tied to 1687 02:15:51,840 --> 02:15:59,840 the property. So, whoever owns the property pays the assessment. Um, Mark 1688 02:15:57,520 --> 02:16:02,960 talked about tax increment bonds. Um, Herman Town Center did something 1689 02:16:01,520 --> 02:16:08,079 interesting. They also have an assessment area that they're financing 1690 02:16:04,560 --> 02:16:12,719 with tax increment. So, this says annual assessment is added to property tax 1691 02:16:09,760 --> 02:16:18,000 bill. That's not always the case. Uh, a lot of times the assessment is collected 1692 02:16:14,719 --> 02:16:22,079 separate than the property tax bill. Public infrastructure districts, Mark 1693 02:16:20,320 --> 02:16:28,560 talked about those a little bit, used by developers to reduce the cost of capital 1694 02:16:25,360 --> 02:16:33,040 um because then the bonds can be issued to pay um the infrastructure costs, 1695 02:16:31,679 --> 02:16:36,160 which is the huge cost when you're setting up. 1696 02:16:33,920 --> 02:16:40,479 » Let me just give you some perspective. Um, I worked with a couple of public 1697 02:16:38,559 --> 02:16:46,080 infrastructure districts in Wasetch County 1698 02:16:42,160 --> 02:16:52,800 uh this year and uh I think their their cost of capital was like 12% from a 1699 02:16:49,280 --> 02:16:59,679 private uh lender versus when they went to the market the cost was around 6%. 1700 02:16:55,920 --> 02:17:03,200 So there's a tremendous motivation for them to try and get access to 1701 02:17:02,559 --> 02:17:06,880 » lower cost >> to a tax exempt 1702 02:17:05,280 --> 02:17:13,200 » between the two bonds. It was like $80 million. So 1703 02:17:10,800 --> 02:17:18,559 » okay. All right. So, state revolving loan 1704 02:17:15,760 --> 02:17:24,719 funds are another option for municipal entities to be able to access funds for 1705 02:17:22,240 --> 02:17:28,559 water and sewer, drinking water, secondary water. You've got division of 1706 02:17:26,240 --> 02:17:32,240 drinking water, Department of Environmental Quality, Bureau of Water 1707 02:17:30,719 --> 02:17:38,960 Resources. So, these are also options. Um, 1708 02:17:36,800 --> 02:17:43,280 eligibility and interest rate tied to the medium adjusted gross income of the 1709 02:17:41,120 --> 02:17:47,200 community. Most of the loans do have a really low interest rate, which is 1710 02:17:44,960 --> 02:17:52,800 probably flash flash flash why everybody likes them. Um, there's a 1% loan 1711 02:17:50,000 --> 02:17:57,280 origination fee. Um, but there are additional steps that you have to go 1712 02:17:54,559 --> 02:18:03,760 through to comply, of course, to get um to get the low interest rate and also um 1713 02:18:01,599 --> 02:18:08,399 to get money from state revolving loan funds. Generally, this is going to take 1714 02:18:06,080 --> 02:18:13,280 the longest of any way you do some financing. So in the next two screens 1715 02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:16,800 I'll talk about some a couple options that are probably the quickest. Then the 1716 02:18:15,200 --> 02:18:20,639 market would be in the middle. State revolving loan funds. You get a great 1717 02:18:18,559 --> 02:18:25,120 interest rate but it is a longer process. 1718 02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:29,599 Also you need a debt service reserve fund which is generally equal to one 1719 02:18:27,760 --> 02:18:33,599 payment over a 10-year period. Usually whatever your biggest payment is, you 1720 02:18:31,200 --> 02:18:37,519 have to set that aside and have it there just in case one year you didn't have 1721 02:18:35,760 --> 02:18:43,599 the money. you've got that debt service reserve fund as a backup. Um and then 1722 02:18:40,960 --> 02:18:49,040 Zans, if you if you ended up applying for um a loan from a state revolving 1723 02:18:46,719 --> 02:18:54,479 loan fund, we would act as your if you you would need a municipal advisor and 1724 02:18:51,599 --> 02:18:58,559 in that capacity. Okay. So, another option to get money is a direct 1725 02:18:56,080 --> 02:19:05,439 placement. Zans does have a portfolio and does buy um does buy issue the debt 1726 02:19:03,200 --> 02:19:10,319 buy the loans. Generally, they're interested in Persing bonds. They will 1727 02:19:07,760 --> 02:19:15,040 fix them over a 10-year period. You can go longer than 10 years, but Zans won't 1728 02:19:12,479 --> 02:19:21,120 fix the interest rate for longer than 10 years. Zans does offer collable anytime, 1729 02:19:19,200 --> 02:19:25,120 which is a really nice feature. So, basically what that means is you could 1730 02:19:22,960 --> 02:19:31,280 pay the loan off at any time without any penalty or you could refinance it at any 1731 02:19:28,160 --> 02:19:35,679 time without any penalty. There's no debt service refer reserve fund 1732 02:19:33,359 --> 02:19:39,200 required. I think Mark has worked with the police department to do some 1733 02:19:37,280 --> 02:19:41,679 vehicles. Um, >> yeah, some of the administrative staff. 1734 02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:46,639 » Okay. >> But it's been a few years. 1735 02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:49,280 [Laughter] >> Yeah. Is there I remember talking about 1736 02:19:48,479 --> 02:19:55,040 those with Piper. >> Okay. All right. Let's move on. The last 1737 02:19:52,000 --> 02:19:59,760 one is private placement. So, in a private placement, bonds are purchased 1738 02:19:57,040 --> 02:20:04,080 by a bank, not science, um, and held in their investment portfolio. So, for 1739 02:20:01,439 --> 02:20:10,640 example, right now San Quinn City is looking for $3.1 million for uh some 1740 02:20:07,280 --> 02:20:15,359 sewer repairs and replacements. And so, they are doing a $3.1 million sewer 1741 02:20:13,120 --> 02:20:20,399 revenue bond and they're doing it as a direct placement. So, what happens is we 1742 02:20:18,080 --> 02:20:24,160 would send out a request for bids to a bunch of different banks telling them 1743 02:20:22,160 --> 02:20:28,560 what the money's needed for, a lot of information about the city of PAC, and 1744 02:20:26,560 --> 02:20:32,399 then we get bids back. And I think we got about four bids back on Santa Quinn. 1745 02:20:30,880 --> 02:20:36,160 So then they will look at that and decide which one they 1746 02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:40,960 » Yeah. In fact, the bids that we saw last night, they had a 10 a 10-year option, a 1747 02:20:38,960 --> 02:20:44,640 15-year option, and a 20-year option to see, you know, what the difference in 1748 02:20:42,720 --> 02:20:48,080 interest rates were over those time frames. And 1749 02:20:46,240 --> 02:20:55,600 » and you know, there's varying call features. And uh so we have access to 1750 02:20:54,399 --> 02:20:59,040 you know people we know that are actively purchasing those for their part 1751 02:20:57,840 --> 02:21:05,680 portfolios. >> Is it true that if you um give up the uh 1752 02:21:03,600 --> 02:21:09,439 call features and the bells and whistles that that's how you drive the lowest 1753 02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:15,439 possible rate >> to a certain extent. Usually uh 1754 02:21:13,600 --> 02:21:20,319 bonds issued in the public market are typically 1755 02:21:17,040 --> 02:21:25,680 call protected for 10 years. uh 1756 02:21:22,000 --> 02:21:30,880 uh if we seek bids say from JP Morgan Chase, their best rate is going to be 1757 02:21:27,840 --> 02:21:38,399 non-allable and they'll have maybe a a fiveyear call or a seven-year call 1758 02:21:33,439 --> 02:21:44,720 that'll and every time the the uh the lower the the call uh year is, the 1759 02:21:41,600 --> 02:21:47,600 higher the rate is. So, >> yeah. So, you balance that against how 1760 02:21:46,160 --> 02:21:50,319 much, right? how much money you're borrowing and does it really make a 1761 02:21:49,120 --> 02:21:53,920 difference for the >> what's the likelihood of interest rates? 1762 02:21:51,680 --> 02:21:57,120 » But there is definitely that tradeoff. >> Yeah, 1763 02:21:54,479 --> 02:22:03,359 » I happen to think that we don't need a lot of uh um protection on the call and 1764 02:22:00,640 --> 02:22:07,520 that we could just be non- call life on a 10-year bond and I think that it would 1765 02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:11,600 lead us to the whole insurance >> the best rate. 1766 02:22:09,200 --> 02:22:15,200 » I think so. But if you think interest rates are in are going to go down 1767 02:22:13,439 --> 02:22:17,920 significantly in the coming years, it may not be a great place to begin. 1768 02:22:16,640 --> 02:22:22,080 » Yeah, I think we're too small to speculate on interest rates. 1769 02:22:19,760 --> 02:22:25,439 » Well, this is going to be our only bond offering probably for some time. It's 1770 02:22:24,240 --> 02:22:30,880 certainly going to be the only bond offering for a while outstanding. So, 1771 02:22:28,240 --> 02:22:33,120 » we're not talking 100 million here. So, right, if you take Yeah. 1772 02:22:32,319 --> 02:22:36,880 » Keeping it simple. >> 10 basis points by Yeah. 1773 02:22:35,040 --> 02:22:41,600 » Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we need to buy a bunch of features that we're not going 1774 02:22:38,640 --> 02:22:44,000 to use via a higher league. >> Sure. 1775 02:22:42,479 --> 02:22:48,479 » Yeah. And that's why it's nice to send out these requests for bids because we 1776 02:22:46,319 --> 02:22:51,600 do get back, right, the various options and it's easy for you to look and go, 1777 02:22:49,920 --> 02:22:55,600 "This one has a call feature for this amount. This one does not for this 1778 02:22:53,439 --> 02:22:59,520 amount." So, it's a good comparison. I don't want to open up a can of worms or 1779 02:22:56,960 --> 02:23:03,920 slow you guys down, but I and I I hope we if we if we issue any debt, we is, 1780 02:23:02,640 --> 02:23:07,520 you know, have the fewest issues possible. But we have we've one thing 1781 02:23:06,399 --> 02:23:12,880 we've talked about that I think we want to hear these guys discuss or respond to 1782 02:23:09,600 --> 02:23:17,200 is the notion of borrowing once and then funding not only a building, but water 1783 02:23:14,319 --> 02:23:21,120 and sewer projects. So, we we know we need to build a building, but we also 1784 02:23:18,720 --> 02:23:24,399 have a great deal of expenses in the next 10 or 15 years on the water and 1785 02:23:23,120 --> 02:23:27,760 sewer systems. I mean due to this this relationship 1786 02:23:26,000 --> 02:23:33,280 between the cost of capital and market rates I think we have to think about at 1787 02:23:31,200 --> 02:23:35,120 least acknowledge the potential to debt finance water and sewer projects as 1788 02:23:34,800 --> 02:23:38,800 well. >> Yeah, I think the co-mingling of that 1789 02:23:36,800 --> 02:23:43,280 seems a little suspect like you know it seems to me like like we could have 1790 02:23:40,960 --> 02:23:47,439 other bonds or have a water district bond or water revenue bond but that's 1791 02:23:45,840 --> 02:23:50,479 really a different funding mechanism than the general fund. I think the 1792 02:23:49,200 --> 02:23:53,680 general fund is probably only going to have the one obligation for some period 1793 02:23:53,040 --> 02:23:57,520 of time. >> Which is why I wanted to ask you about 1794 02:23:54,960 --> 02:24:02,479 the state revolving fund for water and sewer. You said it takes longer. 1795 02:24:00,000 --> 02:24:04,399 » Define longer. Is it 6 months? Is it two months? 1796 02:24:02,720 --> 02:24:08,240 » I think it's six to 12 months, isn't it, Mark? Somewhere in there. 1797 02:24:05,760 --> 02:24:13,520 » Yeah. I mean, we've got the kind of in the last slide, I mentioned that, but uh 1798 02:24:11,359 --> 02:24:18,640 a lot of it's dependent on you as to how responsive you are to providing all the 1799 02:24:16,560 --> 02:24:22,160 requested information that they'll need in order to be able to close the bonds. 1800 02:24:20,720 --> 02:24:26,560 » That's funny. You guys think that that 6 to 12 is long because I feel like the 1801 02:24:24,240 --> 02:24:29,280 way that we the how how we operate here, I'm like 6 to 12 months. I'm like that 1802 02:24:28,160 --> 02:24:34,960 seems >> that seems fine. 1803 02:24:32,319 --> 02:24:37,680 » Yeah. But you can do it like like for a market issue, right? If you you know 1804 02:24:36,720 --> 02:24:41,600 what you're doing, you're moving through, you can get it 90 days. So 1805 02:24:40,000 --> 02:24:46,800 yeah, and Mark is going to talk about that in the last couple slides. So um I 1806 02:24:44,479 --> 02:24:50,560 I think that's the last one. Go ahead to the next one. I think Mark's just going 1807 02:24:48,240 --> 02:24:55,200 to wrap it up with the last last couple talking about market issuance and 1808 02:24:52,560 --> 02:24:58,640 timing. >> Um go ahead with this one, Janette. 1809 02:24:58,080 --> 02:25:04,399 » Oh, >> it was the last couple I was 1810 02:25:00,479 --> 02:25:08,800 » Oh, okay. All right. So yeah, so market issuance. So there's two types of market 1811 02:25:06,080 --> 02:25:12,880 issuances. So you can go out for what's called a competitive sale, and that's 1812 02:25:11,280 --> 02:25:17,280 exactly what it sounds like. It's a competitive sale. So we put together a 1813 02:25:15,280 --> 02:25:21,359 document that tells investors everything they would want to know about the town 1814 02:25:19,439 --> 02:25:24,800 of Alta. We send it out there through various 1815 02:25:22,960 --> 02:25:30,560 distribution platforms who get it out there to the investment community. We 1816 02:25:27,359 --> 02:25:34,640 set an actual date and time for the sale of your bonds. And it's kind of like 1817 02:25:32,640 --> 02:25:40,880 being on eBay. So there's a platform called Parody Platform. And so if we say 1818 02:25:37,920 --> 02:25:47,840 your bonds are going to be for sale, you know, on like November 3rd at 9:30 a.m., 1819 02:25:45,120 --> 02:25:53,680 then we would all get online on the parody platform like 20 minutes before 1820 02:25:50,960 --> 02:25:58,880 and kind of by that point we will know. So what happens usually the day before 1821 02:25:55,520 --> 02:26:02,560 is various investors will sign up to bid and so we'll look and see okay who's 1822 02:26:00,880 --> 02:26:06,319 interested in your bonds. Is it Bank of America? Is it Capital One? Is it 1823 02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:11,200 Fidelity? Right? And so we'll kind of look at that. We'll look at what other 1824 02:26:07,680 --> 02:26:15,200 sales are going on that day. And then at 9:30 a.m. So generally the bids will 1825 02:26:13,600 --> 02:26:21,280 this is why it's like eBay because generally the bids come in like 30 1826 02:26:17,040 --> 02:26:26,399 seconds before 9:30 a.m. on that day. And so right at that time the bidding 1827 02:26:23,439 --> 02:26:29,840 ends and it's a blind bid for the entity's bidding. They don't know how 1828 02:26:28,160 --> 02:26:33,920 many others are bidding and they don't know what their bid is. So everybody is 1829 02:26:32,479 --> 02:26:38,479 just basically putting in their best bid. We press a little button, it shows 1830 02:26:36,399 --> 02:26:44,000 us what everybody's bid is and the lowest bid wins. So that's basically how 1831 02:26:41,040 --> 02:26:48,880 a competitive sale works. And we do competitive sales generally if it's a 1832 02:26:46,960 --> 02:26:53,359 little bit larger of an issue like the Salt Lake County one we're doing. um as 1833 02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:58,319 a competitive sale and if it's not super complicated. So this is just a sales tax 1834 02:26:56,080 --> 02:27:01,680 revenue bond. It's not that complicated. We do it as a competitive sale. The 1835 02:27:00,000 --> 02:27:05,680 Cottonwood Heights one we did as a competitive sale. The other type of sale 1836 02:27:04,319 --> 02:27:12,319 you can do in the market is called a negotiated sale and that's where ahead 1837 02:27:08,640 --> 02:27:16,080 of time you would hire an underwriter because it's a little too competitive 1838 02:27:14,240 --> 02:27:21,520 for the market. So, for example, we just sold a couple hundred million bonds for 1839 02:27:18,399 --> 02:27:26,640 Utah Transit Authority. We did these as a negotiated sale because it was pretty 1840 02:27:24,479 --> 02:27:31,120 complicated. We had some new money, we had some refunding, and then we were 1841 02:27:28,240 --> 02:27:37,840 tendering some bonds. And so, what you do is you set out a request um for an 1842 02:27:34,399 --> 02:27:41,439 underwriter. You give all the details of the sale of the issue, whatever, and 1843 02:27:39,760 --> 02:27:46,160 then you get a bunch of underwriters back who say, "Yes, we are interested in 1844 02:27:44,080 --> 02:27:52,640 being the underwriter for your bonds, and here's our terms. Here's our here's 1845 02:27:48,960 --> 02:27:56,319 our, you know, um yeah, here's our fees. Um kind of what we think the market 1846 02:27:54,800 --> 02:28:01,120 looks like, what we think we could sell your bonds for." Um and those are the 1847 02:27:58,880 --> 02:28:05,200 two types of market issuances. And if you do a market issuance, then we do 1848 02:28:03,439 --> 02:28:09,600 need to put together this document called the official statement that Mark 1849 02:28:07,359 --> 02:28:13,920 uh referred to that just we have to tell the investment community about you and 1850 02:28:11,680 --> 02:28:19,280 it's required by law. Yeah. Sorry. >> I have a couple of questions. 1851 02:28:16,960 --> 02:28:23,760 So the underwriter is really a broker from a kind from an SEC standpoint. 1852 02:28:22,000 --> 02:28:29,280 » He's buying them and selling them. Yes. >> Yep. and are so and the people that are 1853 02:28:27,359 --> 02:28:32,640 investing into these pools they're always in this case they'd be 1854 02:28:31,040 --> 02:28:37,760 institutional they'd be banks we're not going to have like an SEC accredited 1855 02:28:35,120 --> 02:28:41,680 investor type consideration we have to look at and things like this is it all 1856 02:28:39,760 --> 02:28:46,840 » it's generally going to be institutional investors in banks okay yeah 1857 02:28:43,840 --> 02:28:46,840 » right 1858 02:28:47,120 --> 02:28:54,240 and the other thing with a market transaction is it requires a bond ready 1859 02:28:52,479 --> 02:28:56,080 so that's at additional cost and then who determines 1860 02:28:55,920 --> 02:28:59,600 that >> which is a fairly significant cost 1861 02:28:57,840 --> 02:29:01,680 » the rating of that >> who's going to determine the rating of 1862 02:29:00,880 --> 02:29:08,000 our bond >> we would go through Moody's or S&P or 1863 02:29:04,000 --> 02:29:12,800 Fitch we kind of have favorites based on how we feel they they rate the type of 1864 02:29:10,399 --> 02:29:16,720 bond that we're looking to sell >> for example Moody's does a lot of the 1865 02:29:14,640 --> 02:29:21,840 school school bond issuances >> can I ask you pointed question since 1866 02:29:19,200 --> 02:29:25,520 you're here advising the town of Ala >> how well do you think we would position 1867 02:29:23,280 --> 02:29:31,680 ition in that relative to other small towns as far as how they look at us. 1868 02:29:29,520 --> 02:29:37,600 » I haven't I personally haven't looked at your information. Like we have some we 1869 02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:41,120 have some some scales we can look at to kind of guess what we think your rating 1870 02:29:39,280 --> 02:29:43,600 would be. I haven't looked at your data closely enough to be able to answer that 1871 02:29:42,880 --> 02:29:46,800 for you. But >> that would be good to know. 1872 02:29:45,439 --> 02:29:52,479 » One of the things you need to be mindful of is the rating is tied to the revenue 1873 02:29:49,760 --> 02:29:56,160 pledge. So you would have a geo bond rating maybe different than a sewer bond 1874 02:29:54,399 --> 02:30:00,160 rating or a water bond rating. >> Right. 1875 02:29:56,399 --> 02:30:02,000 » For a sales revenue ledger this size >> tight tight. 1876 02:30:01,200 --> 02:30:07,359 » Yeah. >> And then bond enhance enhancement credit 1877 02:30:05,439 --> 02:30:11,600 guarantee. Do you are all these >> you can buy bond insurance to get a 1878 02:30:09,439 --> 02:30:15,200 double A rating equivalent typically if you can find somebody that's willing to 1879 02:30:13,280 --> 02:30:20,160 sell you the insurance. >> Do you go down that very often or are 1880 02:30:17,520 --> 02:30:25,960 these mostly uninsured? Usually if we're, you know, 1881 02:30:26,160 --> 02:30:36,880 A+ or worse, you know, triple B+, A minus, A, A+, we would we would 1882 02:30:33,520 --> 02:30:41,439 evaluate, you know, what do we think the rate difference is that we would see 1883 02:30:39,359 --> 02:30:45,439 with bond insurance versus without it? And is the is the cost benefit there? 1884 02:30:43,439 --> 02:30:47,200 » And the insurance generally brings you up for triple A, 1885 02:30:46,640 --> 02:30:54,520 » double A. >> Oh, double A. And that's like NBIA or 1886 02:30:49,760 --> 02:30:54,520 somebody like that. Um 1887 02:30:57,600 --> 02:31:02,880 » I'd have to look. >> Yeah, 1888 02:31:00,319 --> 02:31:06,800 » IA. Yes, that might be Spanish Spanish Fork. 1889 02:31:04,080 --> 02:31:12,080 » I did some bond insurance for Midway. I did some for North Davis Fire District 1890 02:31:10,479 --> 02:31:16,479 as well >> where it made sense. I'm trying try. 1891 02:31:14,319 --> 02:31:18,880 They actually save money by paying the insurance premium and then getting the 1892 02:31:18,080 --> 02:31:21,600 lower rate. >> Yeah. 1893 02:31:19,280 --> 02:31:25,600 » Yeah. We think that there's value in certain circumstances. 1894 02:31:23,920 --> 02:31:30,319 » We haven't done a lot with insurance lately, but sometimes 1895 02:31:27,120 --> 02:31:35,120 » we're just so small. >> You're really small. We probably 1896 02:31:32,479 --> 02:31:38,800 wouldn't do Yeah. >> 30 million deal 1897 02:31:36,560 --> 02:31:42,000 » on Coglin Heights's tax base, >> right? Is 1898 02:31:40,080 --> 02:31:47,280 » Yeah. I don't know whether that's >> $165 a year kind of. 1899 02:31:44,399 --> 02:31:50,960 » Yeah. Or five5 million on Midway's tax base. I mean, Midway 1900 02:31:49,280 --> 02:31:52,880 » probably 60 bucks or something like that. 1901 02:31:51,280 --> 02:31:56,960 » Yeah. Yeah. >> But again, those aren't necessarily the 1902 02:31:54,880 --> 02:32:02,240 factors that affect it. So, I made a list of community, small communities 1903 02:31:58,800 --> 02:32:06,000 that have infrastructure to talk to about whether they 1904 02:32:03,280 --> 02:32:12,560 » So, I'm doing a private placement on $8.2 $2 million uh water revenue bond 1905 02:32:09,439 --> 02:32:17,840 for Woodscross City that of just sending out the bids 1906 02:32:14,000 --> 02:32:22,479 tomorrow. Uh so the the 1907 02:32:20,479 --> 02:32:27,200 difference between the market rates and private placements rates there is a 1908 02:32:24,080 --> 02:32:32,000 difference mind you it's but uh sometimes the brain damage and the 1909 02:32:29,120 --> 02:32:34,640 additional cost people we give them options. this is what we think you'll 1910 02:32:33,200 --> 02:32:38,399 get under these circumstances and this is what you'll you know we we give them 1911 02:32:36,560 --> 02:32:40,960 indicative rates and tell them the pros and cons and they ultimately decide 1912 02:32:39,840 --> 02:32:45,200 what's >> but the direct placement of the bond to 1913 02:32:43,200 --> 02:32:49,920 the bank's portfolio which I think probably seems like maybe the route for 1914 02:32:47,040 --> 02:32:52,560 us the bank doesn't require generally doesn't require insurance 1915 02:32:51,359 --> 02:33:00,439 » does >> you don't need to get a rating yeah 1916 02:32:56,800 --> 02:33:00,439 » placement and private 1917 02:33:00,479 --> 02:33:06,479 So I think you've 1918 02:33:04,240 --> 02:33:13,359 heard we're looking for 10 or $15 million build. What what of these 1919 02:33:10,560 --> 02:33:18,479 options are you recommending for us? >> Well, we don't have a municipal advisor 1920 02:33:15,600 --> 02:33:24,399 relationship currently and we are prohibited from making recommendations 1921 02:33:21,920 --> 02:33:30,319 as to timing, terms, and structure absent that. But we can make general 1922 02:33:28,160 --> 02:33:33,600 observations. Um, 1923 02:33:31,840 --> 02:33:40,399 if we were your municipal advisor, we would run indicative rates for uh $15 1924 02:33:36,640 --> 02:33:44,800 million or 10 or whatever in market and look at what the private placement rates 1925 02:33:42,399 --> 02:33:51,840 are and see what the difference is, what the annual payments look like, uh, and 1926 02:33:49,120 --> 02:33:57,359 uh, take it back to you and see what your pleasure is. uh to go to the 1927 02:33:54,640 --> 02:34:04,240 market, you you need uh somewhat of a robust staff or access to somebody that 1928 02:33:59,600 --> 02:34:08,080 can help you with the information that we need for the 1929 02:34:05,760 --> 02:34:12,960 official statement. Uh 1930 02:34:10,000 --> 02:34:19,520 but uh it's in that range to where it it could 1931 02:34:16,000 --> 02:34:25,240 go either way. either way mean private placement or 1932 02:34:21,840 --> 02:34:25,240 public market. 1933 02:34:25,680 --> 02:34:32,720 » Can you describe what the municipal advisor relationship really is? Is it 1934 02:34:30,319 --> 02:34:38,479 based off of what you're borrowing? Is it just a flat fee? How does that work? 1935 02:34:35,439 --> 02:34:46,960 Um our our rates are usually have a minimum fee and then it's usually 1936 02:34:42,160 --> 02:34:53,280 depending on the type of bond a per uh dollar I mean a 1937 02:34:49,520 --> 02:34:57,600 say a2 or $3 per bond or per thousand dollars 1938 02:34:55,439 --> 02:35:03,359 uh for the bond the total bonds that are 1939 02:34:59,520 --> 02:35:07,200 issued but we don't and maybe this is unique designs or maybe I I didn't hear 1940 02:35:04,960 --> 02:35:11,600 you guys actually if you say it that this way, but we don't pay until debt 1941 02:35:09,840 --> 02:35:16,160 issued. Right. Correct. Exactly. >> If we don't ever go if we don't ever 1942 02:35:14,000 --> 02:35:18,960 issue debt, then we don't pay this. >> And we we get paid when the bonds are 1943 02:35:17,920 --> 02:35:22,960 issued. >> Check out the price of next business. 1944 02:35:20,479 --> 02:35:25,760 » Yeah. So, we're not if you order before midnight tonight, there's not an 1945 02:35:24,319 --> 02:35:29,520 obligation. >> There's no two for one or anything. No. 1946 02:35:27,680 --> 02:35:33,359 » And you don't want to be the advisor if we end up opting for the sell them to 1947 02:35:32,160 --> 02:35:36,800 your own portfolio. >> That's correct. We we couldn't we get a 1948 02:35:35,680 --> 02:35:40,399 law firm or something. >> You can't do both. Yeah. 1949 02:35:38,160 --> 02:35:46,479 » Yeah. So we get somebody else to be the advisor on if we go to and and we can't 1950 02:35:44,319 --> 02:35:50,240 advise on a specific transaction. If you come to us and say hey what would Zans 1951 02:35:48,240 --> 02:35:54,800 do and we can say well we can tell you this is what we can do. Uh but we can't 1952 02:35:53,200 --> 02:35:59,760 say this is what you should do. >> Right? Uh, and we would give you if you 1953 02:35:57,920 --> 02:36:03,439 had a municipal advisor relationship, we'd give you a a disclosure notice 1954 02:36:01,840 --> 02:36:07,520 saying we're not acting in a fiduciary role. As a municipal adviser, we are 1955 02:36:05,520 --> 02:36:12,520 acting in a fiduciary role. We're obligated to act in your best interest 1956 02:36:09,120 --> 02:36:12,520 at all times. 1957 02:36:15,840 --> 02:36:24,399 So go so just quick uh bonding steps uh starts by the adoption of a 1958 02:36:22,720 --> 02:36:29,120 parameters resolution by the town council which basically sets the 1959 02:36:26,560 --> 02:36:34,399 framework for the the bonds that that the town would issue. What's the maximum 1960 02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:38,160 amount of bonds the city would issue? What's the maximum term for which they 1961 02:36:36,319 --> 02:36:42,240 would issue the bonds? What's the maximum interest rate that they're 1962 02:36:39,680 --> 02:36:46,160 willing to pay? And if we go to market, what's the maximum discount the bonds 1963 02:36:44,080 --> 02:36:52,160 can be sold at? So, uh, that's a put in a resolution by 1964 02:36:50,479 --> 02:36:58,800 bond council. You'd have to engage bond counsel to to draft that. And then after 1965 02:36:56,000 --> 02:37:03,359 that, you have to notice public hearing, uh, to allow the public to come in and 1966 02:37:00,960 --> 02:37:08,399 express opposition to or support for the issuance of the bond. Uh once the notice 1967 02:37:06,960 --> 02:37:16,640 of public hearing is published, it starts a 30-day contest period, which 1968 02:37:12,240 --> 02:37:20,640 you know uh the uh during the the public could, you know, go out and seek 1969 02:37:18,479 --> 02:37:26,399 signatures to put a referendum from you issuing debt. Uh 1970 02:37:23,920 --> 02:37:32,880 I'm I think Ivan City is going through a potential referendum on a property tax 1971 02:37:28,399 --> 02:37:39,120 increase they just adopted. uh and uh after the contest period ends without 1972 02:37:34,960 --> 02:37:43,760 any uh referendums being filed depending on the method their bonds are 1973 02:37:41,439 --> 02:37:48,399 sold their bonds are priced bond documents are prepared and the bond 1974 02:37:46,000 --> 02:37:56,479 closing takes place afterwards. Usually the mayor or the city manager authorized 1975 02:37:50,720 --> 02:38:01,040 to accept the terms of the bids or offer that's been received by the city 1976 02:37:58,640 --> 02:38:05,040 provided they're within the uh parameters that's been adopted by the 1977 02:38:02,960 --> 02:38:11,680 council. And this can be done in a 60-day time 1978 02:38:07,200 --> 02:38:16,640 frame. what I just described that uh so the Utah State revolving fund I mean 1979 02:38:13,760 --> 02:38:21,760 once we get to the is probably a six to 12 month process 1980 02:38:18,800 --> 02:38:26,880 uh the division of drinking water if you're looking at water projects is your 1981 02:38:23,439 --> 02:38:33,520 highest priority culinary water projects um they are accepting applications on 1982 02:38:30,720 --> 02:38:36,800 September 30th for their November 18th meeting 1983 02:38:35,200 --> 02:38:41,600 at that same meeting they're also going to talk about not accepting any 1984 02:38:38,240 --> 02:38:46,319 applications till the end of 2026 because they've they don't have a lot of 1985 02:38:44,000 --> 02:38:49,319 funds to loan. Um 1986 02:38:49,600 --> 02:39:00,160 uh so but there there's processes that you have to go through and uh with those 1987 02:38:56,399 --> 02:39:05,600 revolving funds submitting things to uh staff at those agencies to get 1988 02:39:03,600 --> 02:39:09,600 through the process. That usually is a 6 to 12 month period 1989 02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:14,880 and a lot of it's really determined by how fast your engineers and the city is 1990 02:39:12,880 --> 02:39:18,560 in getting the information to those folks. 1991 02:39:16,399 --> 02:39:26,399 uh market issuance can be done in 90 days and the additional 30 days is uh 1992 02:39:22,560 --> 02:39:31,760 provides for the creation of the official statement and 1993 02:39:28,640 --> 02:39:38,560 to go through the bond rating process is is pretty much what adds up 1994 02:39:34,800 --> 02:39:43,359 additional time to that >> and that's it. Yeah, 1995 02:39:41,439 --> 02:39:49,680 » I thought uh one of the options here was a general 1996 02:39:46,319 --> 02:39:53,200 obligation bond that required an election and you 1997 02:39:51,840 --> 02:39:55,439 » It requires a bond. >> It requires a bond. 1998 02:39:54,080 --> 02:39:59,359 » It has to be on the ballot in November. >> It has to be on the ballot. That was 1999 02:39:57,359 --> 02:40:02,840 » Yeah. And that wasn't one of your steps here, was it? 2000 02:40:03,600 --> 02:40:09,439 » Yeah. Would be similar to these steps you would just have. Now the election 2001 02:40:07,439 --> 02:40:14,399 takes place takes place on >> the very last step shows the bond 2002 02:40:11,600 --> 02:40:16,240 election election of the election. >> Yeah. Got it. 2003 02:40:15,040 --> 02:40:20,640 » But you need to do that on the >> but you need to do that on the direct 2004 02:40:17,840 --> 02:40:27,040 placement to your portfolio as well as >> um um 2005 02:40:24,000 --> 02:40:30,960 » not if it's not a G if it's a geo bond. Yes. 2006 02:40:28,640 --> 02:40:36,479 » But uh uh >> maybe not. 2007 02:40:33,439 --> 02:40:41,200 It really depends on the size mostly as to what would dictate whether you'd go I 2008 02:40:39,520 --> 02:40:46,479 wouldn't anticipate a public offering on a water bond for you folks and you 2009 02:40:43,840 --> 02:40:54,080 typically don't see water bonds go into general election a geo election because 2010 02:40:50,160 --> 02:40:58,000 it's a property tax pledge. Now I I I did a this bond election for Kain County 2011 02:40:56,560 --> 02:41:05,280 School District that I mentioned earlier the 1.36% rate. 2012 02:41:01,040 --> 02:41:09,600 um they had sufficient cash flow to make the bond payments, but they still went 2013 02:41:07,359 --> 02:41:14,319 out to the citizenry because they wanted to get the lower interest rate. Uh and 2014 02:41:12,560 --> 02:41:19,280 they said, "We will not increase your taxes if you pass this bond." But at the 2015 02:41:17,200 --> 02:41:24,640 same time, still 30% of the community voted against it. And so I think that's 2016 02:41:22,319 --> 02:41:28,960 kind of a baseline is 30% of your population is going to oppose anything 2017 02:41:27,200 --> 02:41:33,359 regardless if it impacts them negatively or not. 2018 02:41:31,280 --> 02:41:36,800 So >> you uh 2019 02:41:34,479 --> 02:41:42,640 » you um >> said there are 150 registered voters. 2020 02:41:39,760 --> 02:41:45,520 » What fraction of those are property owners? 2021 02:41:43,760 --> 02:41:48,640 » I don't know. >> I I would say probably 2022 02:41:47,439 --> 02:41:52,240 » I guess threequarters. >> I was going to guess three quarters or 2023 02:41:50,080 --> 02:41:55,359 two/3 are property owners. And that's my that's why I kept asking that question. 2024 02:41:53,840 --> 02:41:59,040 That's my one thing that makes me nervous about that type of a bond is 2025 02:41:57,040 --> 02:42:02,640 that you we would have a lot of people voting that don't own property, you 2026 02:42:01,760 --> 02:42:06,880 know, like >> I mean I could I could look and be 2027 02:42:04,800 --> 02:42:11,040 » but like for example me, I live in employee housing at the ski area and I 2028 02:42:09,600 --> 02:42:13,920 could vote for this but I'm not a property owner. So that that just that's 2029 02:42:12,880 --> 02:42:18,479 the only one that makes me a little hesitant about doing that type of a bond 2030 02:42:15,760 --> 02:42:22,479 is that we up here have only 150 voters and I'm pretty sure a chunk of them are 2031 02:42:20,960 --> 02:42:26,479 not property owners. they're just renting or they're in some sort of 2032 02:42:24,160 --> 02:42:29,439 housing or they're lodge employees or whatever. I mean, I know at least five 2033 02:42:28,080 --> 02:42:31,920 ski area employees that aren't even here in the summertime, but they're 2034 02:42:30,399 --> 02:42:36,800 registered voters because they live here in the winter. So, that was just my 2035 02:42:34,319 --> 02:42:38,960 » percent of our uh our our voter rails, right? 2036 02:42:37,600 --> 02:42:42,800 » I know. So, that's that is the only thing about that type of a bond that 2037 02:42:40,720 --> 02:42:46,640 makes me a little bit nervous is that we would be asking our voters to vote on 2038 02:42:44,800 --> 02:42:50,080 something that's going to impact the property owners, but those people voting 2039 02:42:48,479 --> 02:42:53,520 on it aren't all >> property owners. Well, sorry. 2040 02:42:51,439 --> 02:42:56,800 » So, we'll be more likely to pass it. >> Maybe, maybe not. But I'm just saying 2041 02:42:55,200 --> 02:42:59,280 » because they'll say doesn't impact me. >> But I also don't think that's very fair 2042 02:42:58,080 --> 02:43:02,800 to our property owners. So, that's why I'm a little kind of lerary about that 2043 02:43:01,120 --> 02:43:07,359 one is that I feel like we'd be imposing something on our property owners that 2044 02:43:04,800 --> 02:43:11,600 maybe they didn't all get a say in. But that's just every city has that. It's 2045 02:43:09,760 --> 02:43:16,000 just I do feel we have a like a >> I think I think that's just part of the 2046 02:43:13,840 --> 02:43:20,000 political scale weighing that the council has to do. And there are other 2047 02:43:17,200 --> 02:43:24,880 ways to take input besides a vote. And I mean the some of the comparables we need 2048 02:43:22,319 --> 02:43:25,760 to assess are other resort communities. Um 2049 02:43:25,280 --> 02:43:29,600 » yeah, >> you know, park think how many how many 2050 02:43:27,920 --> 02:43:32,240 property owners in Park City are are voters. I mean, 2051 02:43:30,640 --> 02:43:35,359 » no, no, it's true. It's I just don't think that I that's the only part on 2052 02:43:33,359 --> 02:43:37,920 that one. their property tax rate is sort of low because 2053 02:43:36,640 --> 02:43:41,280 » I think the thing that the property owners are going to care about is did 2054 02:43:39,600 --> 02:43:45,279 they have a right did they have an opportunity to vote 2055 02:43:42,880 --> 02:43:49,840 » or did the tax get passed or the increase in expense to them get passed 2056 02:43:47,600 --> 02:43:52,240 without them having a right to vote >> as long as they can vote I think that 2057 02:43:51,600 --> 02:43:54,720 they'll be fine >> I think most of our property owners 2058 02:43:53,600 --> 02:43:57,439 can't vote in the town they don't vote in the town of Ala I think most of our 2059 02:43:56,160 --> 02:44:00,560 property owners don't because they're second homes 2060 02:43:58,720 --> 02:44:04,080 » I don't think they all vote here I think they vote somewhere else so that's all I 2061 02:44:03,200 --> 02:44:10,640 have the way in. >> That's what I have. Some property owners 2062 02:44:07,920 --> 02:44:15,760 may be concerned about whether they're going to get served for any of the taxes 2063 02:44:13,760 --> 02:44:18,080 that they pay. >> We're I mean we could talk about it 2064 02:44:16,880 --> 02:44:20,240 more, but I'm just saying that that is my only that's why I had a bunch of 2065 02:44:19,439 --> 02:44:23,439 questions about that one. >> I think it's a town council comfort 2066 02:44:21,600 --> 02:44:27,680 level thing on the town council. If the town council doesn't feel like the non 2067 02:44:25,760 --> 02:44:30,319 voting property owners are, you know, support it, then they can decide to go 2068 02:44:29,680 --> 02:44:33,120 another route >> for sure. And as that that's just one of 2069 02:44:31,600 --> 02:44:36,479 the ones I just that one >> probably a hard temperature to take 2070 02:44:34,640 --> 02:44:40,080 » but there aren't a lot of other good routes there to take like like if you 2071 02:44:38,479 --> 02:44:47,600 say well we don't want to have it a general uh obligation election 2072 02:44:44,640 --> 02:44:51,840 um I don't see where like the building money um is going to fit into really any 2073 02:44:50,399 --> 02:44:54,800 of those other categories that gracefully. 2074 02:44:52,399 --> 02:45:00,160 » Yeah, I don't think so either. I mean there in the finance encyclopedia the 2075 02:44:56,880 --> 02:45:03,920 notion of a TRT bond comes up. It's interesting to look at 2076 02:45:02,479 --> 02:45:06,240 the code to see whether those are generalized 2077 02:45:05,840 --> 02:45:09,439 tenants. >> You know your sales tax revenue bonds 2078 02:45:07,920 --> 02:45:13,359 could use or transit >> right? So, I mean, there's, you know, 2079 02:45:11,359 --> 02:45:20,080 what are we going to get on $200,000 a year in debt service uh capability and, 2080 02:45:18,479 --> 02:45:24,800 you know, how stable is that revenue over a 30-year term or 20-year term here 2081 02:45:23,200 --> 02:45:26,319 here in Alta? Who knows? Give you a lunch. 2082 02:45:25,120 --> 02:45:30,800 » So, right, it's just >> so you're g the GEO is the safest thing. 2083 02:45:28,800 --> 02:45:35,040 the go seems like the one that and and and then I think when you get down to 2084 02:45:32,720 --> 02:45:39,279 the nuts of the underwriting and the public market, you're going to say, 2085 02:45:37,200 --> 02:45:44,000 "Guys, God save you. Let's just do a direct placement with these guys, 2086 02:45:41,760 --> 02:45:46,880 » you know, because we don't have a huge finance department to chin up all the 2087 02:45:46,319 --> 02:45:50,720 » Yeah. >> all the stuff that public market 2088 02:45:48,560 --> 02:45:53,840 underwriter will want, >> you know. So, doing it for a direct 2089 02:45:52,479 --> 02:45:58,399 placement, I think, would be best burdensome to the staff." 2090 02:45:55,439 --> 02:46:06,000 » Yeah. Another thing comes into play is uh the tax impact on primary residences 2091 02:46:01,920 --> 02:46:10,560 is less than non-primary and commercial because 2092 02:46:07,680 --> 02:46:15,439 » the impact to primary residences less than to commercial and non- primary 2093 02:46:13,200 --> 02:46:20,720 residences because they're only paying 55% of market value versus 100%. 2094 02:46:18,399 --> 02:46:29,200 » Burn burning question. Does our total taxable value figure is 2095 02:46:24,880 --> 02:46:36,160 that post deduction or pre-deduction? So if we've got whatever $340 million in 2096 02:46:32,720 --> 02:46:39,279 taxable value, does that is that after primary residence taxable values have 2097 02:46:38,960 --> 02:46:41,040 been >> it would be after primary residence if 2098 02:46:40,800 --> 02:46:44,399 it's >> because you got your market value, your 2099 02:46:42,240 --> 02:46:48,800 taxable value. So your taxable value is after your deduction for primary. Your 2100 02:46:46,880 --> 02:46:50,240 market value includes 100% of everything. 2101 02:46:49,279 --> 02:46:51,760 » Okay. I've been >> that was our 340, right? 2102 02:46:51,439 --> 02:46:56,720 » Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. 2103 02:46:54,160 --> 02:47:00,800 » Whatever route we go, uh, whether we have election or not, I think we need to 2104 02:46:58,880 --> 02:47:05,439 approach this as a political campaign. >> Oh, yeah. And one of the things that we 2105 02:47:02,880 --> 02:47:10,000 can do is particularly for some of the under represented, you know, people that 2106 02:47:07,840 --> 02:47:16,960 can't vote here, but might be property owners, we may even want to have a uh a 2107 02:47:14,160 --> 02:47:21,600 committee that is partially staffed by citizens that aren't represented in 2108 02:47:18,720 --> 02:47:26,319 other ways to actually make the formal recommendation about the route that we 2109 02:47:23,680 --> 02:47:29,840 go. >> I'll just say because you were talking 2110 02:47:27,840 --> 02:47:33,120 about gen general obligation for the building, right? What other? So your 2111 02:47:31,439 --> 02:47:38,640 other option for that is the lease revenue bond. So and municipal entities 2112 02:47:36,479 --> 02:47:41,680 use the lease revenue bond for new buildings 2113 02:47:39,439 --> 02:47:45,040 » and in private to avoid the >> and that avoid the election. 2114 02:47:43,760 --> 02:47:48,720 » Yeah, least >> I don't think that would be well 2115 02:47:46,080 --> 02:47:53,120 received would be it's just it's just an option. 2116 02:47:52,080 --> 02:47:57,439 » Thank you so much. >> Hey, you're so welcome. Yeah, 2117 02:47:55,520 --> 02:48:02,479 » that was really great. Thank you. >> Sandwich, right? 2118 02:48:00,800 --> 02:48:07,520 Okay gang, a couple of folks have already had to go, but I think it's just 2119 02:48:04,560 --> 02:48:13,120 we'll do a quick summary and next steps. Um, Chris, uh, I guess I'd like your 2120 02:48:10,319 --> 02:48:16,640 thoughts, uh, here. >> Well, 2121 02:48:14,880 --> 02:48:22,319 what this is, this went the way I thought it was. I thought it would go is 2122 02:48:18,479 --> 02:48:27,680 a really good discussion. I think we're we're we're at the orographic moment 2123 02:48:24,399 --> 02:48:33,680 where the grapple's up in the cloud and we need to let the grains of snow 2124 02:48:29,840 --> 02:48:38,560 precipitate a little bit. But um I think I think we're I think it's maybe 2125 02:48:37,120 --> 02:48:41,840 just going to take another discussion for us to recognize the consensus that 2126 02:48:40,640 --> 02:48:47,840 we've built. But I do think we've essentially built a consent a stronger 2127 02:48:44,399 --> 02:48:51,200 consensus around um prioritizing the fire h the post office site. We're going 2128 02:48:49,760 --> 02:48:56,319 to call it the post office now. This is essential for the political campaign. 2129 02:48:53,359 --> 02:49:02,240 » Um that prioritizes uh essential functions. I think we have 2130 02:48:58,560 --> 02:49:07,200 to decide how much additional uh you know existing programming that exists 2131 02:49:04,000 --> 02:49:12,240 over there we retain. That's that's the that's the multi-purpose space. Um, I 2132 02:49:10,319 --> 02:49:19,760 think we I think we need that we have some tough choices to make about 2133 02:49:16,560 --> 02:49:24,880 what do we need what is the stage in our process when we're going to refine and 2134 02:49:22,160 --> 02:49:29,359 finalize that design because I just don't think we're going to be able to 2135 02:49:27,279 --> 02:49:36,960 make the right decision until we're working with the design team. So, I just 2136 02:49:33,760 --> 02:49:41,840 that's sort of where my mind is going is what kind of expertise do we need to 2137 02:49:40,240 --> 02:49:46,800 actually put our pencils down on what the design is going to be. Um, 2138 02:49:46,080 --> 02:49:51,120 » okay. >> And then, and I think I mean I don't 2139 02:49:49,840 --> 02:49:57,760 want to say we're going to do a bond election, but I think you're right that 2140 02:49:52,640 --> 02:50:03,120 that's simply the most capable looking um option for us. And I'm, 2141 02:50:00,800 --> 02:50:06,800 you know, again, the those options that, you know, they're the the examples we've 2142 02:50:04,880 --> 02:50:10,880 discussed are just even 8 million for the Woodscross water system. I mean, I 2143 02:50:08,960 --> 02:50:15,680 imagine they have 50 times the connections that we have. So, the rate 2144 02:50:12,880 --> 02:50:20,960 impact is is is much lower. So, I think we've I'd love to be able to do some 2145 02:50:17,600 --> 02:50:25,840 research on what truly small entities um what kind of debt financing they've 2146 02:50:22,479 --> 02:50:31,120 they've used. Um, but I think we're I think we need to move in that direction 2147 02:50:29,439 --> 02:50:35,680 because there are a lot of steps to take if we're going to go in August. I mean, 2148 02:50:33,920 --> 02:50:40,399 another variable that we discussed is that there is no municipal election next 2149 02:50:37,760 --> 02:50:45,920 year. So, it's a it's a midterm election. So, 2150 02:50:43,920 --> 02:50:48,960 I mean, anyways, there lots of variables, 2151 02:50:46,319 --> 02:50:51,279 » but we're vote by mail still. It would be voters 2152 02:50:50,880 --> 02:50:55,359 next session, >> right? So I mean that kind of does reach 2153 02:50:53,120 --> 02:50:59,120 everybody even if it's not a >> well saddle up for the presidential 2154 02:50:57,359 --> 02:51:03,439 election. I mean you know you still pay attention. I guess one more next step. I 2155 02:51:02,000 --> 02:51:11,040 think we need to >> we need to 2156 02:51:06,319 --> 02:51:14,960 have another discussion like this about water and sewer because 2157 02:51:13,600 --> 02:51:19,920 » if we're talking about raising property taxes to fund a building one way or 2158 02:51:16,640 --> 02:51:24,399 another, um it's another proposition when we think about what are the rate 2159 02:51:22,160 --> 02:51:28,399 increases necessary to fund the water and sewer projects. So, I just think 2160 02:51:26,160 --> 02:51:34,640 that's another that's another half of the apple more or less um in terms of 2161 02:51:31,439 --> 02:51:38,640 dollars that we have to you know I like to slice apples for Adam but 2162 02:51:39,120 --> 02:51:47,200 » I I suggest that we think about and I think this is consistent with what 2163 02:51:44,399 --> 02:51:53,520 you've been saying today you know I think on the design side you know moving 2164 02:51:49,439 --> 02:51:56,880 to like a 10% design and with maybe one or two options in play there. 2165 02:51:56,160 --> 02:52:01,760 » Um, >> so you get a better cost. 2166 02:51:58,800 --> 02:52:05,840 » Yeah, just a 10% step wouldn't be a huge amount of architecture and I think that 2167 02:52:04,080 --> 02:52:09,840 would be the right next step. And then from 10, you'd start to do site 2168 02:52:08,319 --> 02:52:14,000 assessment and then maybe you'd move to a 30% design level after that. 2169 02:52:12,880 --> 02:52:19,120 » Yeah. >> And then you'd be ready to to be on 2170 02:52:16,640 --> 02:52:21,760 track for deciding if you could wanted to have a bond election or not. 2171 02:52:20,720 --> 02:52:26,080 » Yeah. 30% design would give you that insight. 2172 02:52:24,479 --> 02:52:28,240 » I think I think every time we do that it becomes more clear. Everything comes 2173 02:52:27,680 --> 02:52:30,880 into focus >> with each iteration. 2174 02:52:29,279 --> 02:52:32,640 » It is iterative. >> It is. 2175 02:52:31,520 --> 02:52:38,240 » Yeah. So I think you're going to have to eventually get to probably 30% design 2176 02:52:34,880 --> 02:52:42,880 before you call for the election. But I think a 10% design would put you 2177 02:52:40,399 --> 02:52:46,160 on the way and you could narrow it from like sort of now we still have kind of 2178 02:52:44,479 --> 02:52:52,479 playing with two ideas right of >> so 10% for funding 2179 02:52:48,560 --> 02:52:54,479 » 10% to identify the budget >> conceptual 2180 02:52:54,000 --> 02:52:58,000 design >> for requirements I think it's require 2181 02:52:56,960 --> 02:53:02,560 yeah >> architectural design would be what they 2182 02:53:00,080 --> 02:53:06,080 call a 10% design yeah so the architect is doing sort of 10% of the total amount 2183 02:53:04,640 --> 02:53:09,840 of work >> and then that you would decide 2184 02:53:08,240 --> 02:53:13,600 Do you really want to still pursue two options? Do you want to add one? And 2185 02:53:11,680 --> 02:53:18,560 then when you get to that decision, then you'd go to like a 30% design level. So 2186 02:53:16,720 --> 02:53:24,080 he'd come back with the thing building 30% design and you probably put it in 2187 02:53:21,840 --> 02:53:28,240 the ground at 80%. >> And given that we've missed the suspense 2188 02:53:26,000 --> 02:53:31,760 date for this year, >> right, we're in a good position. I think 2189 02:53:30,160 --> 02:53:35,200 » we got 11 months. >> Well, you it's a it's a couple of 2190 02:53:34,080 --> 02:53:38,240 conversations. going to take a couple budget amendments though, you know, like 2191 02:53:37,359 --> 02:53:41,279 it's a >> that's a super heavy lift, but however, 2192 02:53:40,880 --> 02:53:43,040 I >> if we can't make it, we don't make it, 2193 02:53:42,640 --> 02:53:47,200 right? >> I think it'd be hard for us to do this 2194 02:53:45,279 --> 02:53:51,920 first one >> based on a 10% design called the bond 2195 02:53:49,600 --> 02:53:56,560 election. I think that wouldn't be filled out enough like a 10% 2196 02:53:54,240 --> 02:54:00,240 architectural design. Let's say, oh, let's go ahead and start the public 2197 02:53:57,920 --> 02:54:04,560 process. I don't think that the design would be fleshed out enough of people. 2198 02:54:02,240 --> 02:54:05,840 It can't just be boxes and shadow boxes and stuff. 2199 02:54:05,279 --> 02:54:07,840 » Yeah. >> It's going to have to actually look like 2200 02:54:07,120 --> 02:54:11,040 a building, >> right? 2201 02:54:08,399 --> 02:54:13,439 » And if we miss next year, we miss next year and we keep moving forward. That's 2202 02:54:12,560 --> 02:54:15,439 what the town does. >> Yeah. Right. 2203 02:54:14,080 --> 02:54:18,880 » Well, I think that's the crucial piece, right? Keep moving forward. Yes. 2204 02:54:17,200 --> 02:54:22,240 » And I think there are already some plans in place to continue the these 2205 02:54:20,479 --> 02:54:26,560 conversations. >> Jen, I'd like you just to outline the 2206 02:54:24,399 --> 02:54:30,319 about the uh communication and the recording piece and the v videography 2207 02:54:28,800 --> 02:54:35,760 and whatnot as we close. >> Yeah. So, we're ready to wrap up here in 2208 02:54:32,720 --> 02:54:39,600 a minute. Um, we invite everybody to stay and eat lunch once we officially 2209 02:54:38,160 --> 02:54:43,279 adjourn the meeting though, just as a reminder. I know everybody loves this, 2210 02:54:40,800 --> 02:54:47,760 but we have to kind of cease talking about this sort of thing. No town 2211 02:54:45,760 --> 02:54:51,120 business. So, you know, casual chitchat about your hike yesterday, all that sort 2212 02:54:49,359 --> 02:54:56,479 of stuff. So, just be respectful of that. Um, and I think that's 2213 02:54:55,760 --> 02:54:59,600 » that's all I have. >> Okay. 2214 02:54:57,040 --> 02:55:06,399 » Okay. I think who knows >> since uh aside from your esteemed guest, 2215 02:55:03,600 --> 02:55:12,160 I think that because I am not an elected official and not a statutory official 2216 02:55:09,920 --> 02:55:13,920 nor staff, I can get talk about whatever I want, 2217 02:55:13,439 --> 02:55:17,760 » but >> just not with two counsel. 2218 02:55:16,720 --> 02:55:22,720 » It's just it's just clear. >> Yeah. Just not with two minutes. 2219 02:55:19,920 --> 02:55:28,319 » I think to many Yeah, I'm just going to listen. So I mean I think uh Chris and 2220 02:55:25,600 --> 02:55:32,000 the team and you have spent a lot of time planning this and I just wanted to 2221 02:55:30,399 --> 02:55:36,560 you know wrap up by doing a quick evaluation. What did you like about the 2222 02:55:34,160 --> 02:55:41,120 session today? What did you think could have changed to make it better? Um 2223 02:55:40,560 --> 02:55:45,040 thoughts. >> Let me say that I think that the 2224 02:55:42,880 --> 02:55:48,479 preparation for this that particularly Chris has done is is magnificent. You 2225 02:55:47,120 --> 02:55:53,120 know >> well done. 2226 02:55:50,319 --> 02:55:56,960 It it it was really uh this was really laid out well. 2227 02:55:55,279 --> 02:56:00,960 » My only request was that we had two more hours to keep going 2228 02:55:58,880 --> 02:56:04,640 » because I feel like we're, you know, we're rolling. 2229 02:56:02,640 --> 02:56:09,040 » We stayed strong all the way to the end because of the shorter duration. I think 2230 02:56:07,120 --> 02:56:13,120 we carried, you know, there was a lot of momentum all the way to the finish line 2231 02:56:10,960 --> 02:56:16,960 today as opposed to some of them have kind of wandered that last hour a little 2232 02:56:14,960 --> 02:56:21,840 bit. I also think that it was good that you were more flex today's meeting 2233 02:56:20,160 --> 02:56:27,600 format seemed a little more flexible with some of them in the past which okay 2234 02:56:23,760 --> 02:56:33,120 » were pretty rigid structure like I think you know veering towards that open 2235 02:56:29,760 --> 02:56:36,960 discussion about the the breakout sessions that was really good because it 2236 02:56:34,960 --> 02:56:41,040 kept the momentum a lot >> good 2237 02:56:38,479 --> 02:56:44,479 » I like that format we got up and moved around 2238 02:56:42,880 --> 02:56:48,160 into small groups But we weren't forced to stay in the 2239 02:56:46,160 --> 02:56:49,760 small group format for longer that it was useful. 2240 02:56:48,880 --> 02:56:56,560 » Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Good. Anything else? Any other 2241 02:56:52,640 --> 02:56:59,600 thoughts, comments? Okay. Mayor, would you close would you close 2242 02:56:58,720 --> 02:57:03,359 this formally? >> Oh, do we have to formally close this 2243 02:57:02,319 --> 02:57:06,319 publicly? >> Um, do we take a vote? 2244 02:57:05,760 --> 02:57:10,560 » Yep. >> All right. Um, I move that we adjourn 2245 02:57:09,040 --> 02:57:14,000 this session. I >> second. 2246 02:57:12,640 --> 02:57:16,720 All in favor? I >> I There's three of us left. 2247 02:57:15,439 --> 02:57:23,000 » Yes. >> This excellent. Great job everyone. 2248 02:57:19,279 --> 02:57:23,000 Meeting is journed. Okay.