[0:17] The calm before the storm. Know it's not sexy. They have a sign to >> call to order the september 17th 2026 and over park and rec commission meeting. First item is the resident forum and there is no one currently in chambers to add to the conversation. So next item is the agenda approval.
[0:48] I'd like to make a motion. Go ahead. I'd like to amend the agenda to includes six a discuss tree lighting event and six b to discuss tournament fee waivers. I second all in favor. I opposed motion carries item number four approval of minutes from july 16th 2026.
[1:30] you can I will make a motion to approve the minutes. A second. A second. All in favor? I any opposed motion carries. Next item on the agenda discuss pine hills north garage construct. Chair and members of the commission before you this evening have a discussion for the pine hills north garage.
[2:02] this was something that was shown in the original master plan for the complex back in 2013 which was going to house the soccer association's facilities at that time. So as stated in report boreal afc soccer has provided some funds to construct the garage this fall draft construction plans siting picture and some other information are included in your packet.
[2:50] would you like us to throw them up on the screen ? Okay. Yeah. All right. So here you're getting a side elevation of the structure from the south elevation and the east. It's just kind of your standard accessory building there to house and equipment in the packet as well. You also have kind of your metric view. You can see the size, the structure.
[3:18] looking at 16 by 21 and there's also a conclusion of the siting picture as well. So within that there's also the plan within that packet item which shows what that look like in the original development and then also kind of a location map for that.
[3:49] so this is in the area just to the northeast of the north parking lot there. The new building that was the picnic shelters down in this corner the map is just a little off map. And again, just master plan show the facility here in the corner. So with that I would yield any questions comments or discussion you have.
[4:24] will there be any electric out to this building? >> I honestly don't know that one off the top of my head here to work on that but I believe there was electric out at that site but I think we can certainly double check on that one for the commission if we need to know.
[4:46] my and the applicant is here to address some of the other questions at asco. So you have to please just consider what are as we discussed with the build our plan was to not initially put electricity in and then kind of phase two was to work with the city to see if there was a plan and what additional permits that would require and if if that was
[5:05] something we'd be willing to work together on. It wasn't an absolute necessity but long term it would be something that would be useful. But would you stick to it? And of course please go ahead and state for me brady johnson. Thank you. Any additional discussion? I have a couple of questions.
[5:34] so this is funded completely through the soccer association and then the city of andover will and own the building. Is it a gift back to the building back? Yes. >> yeah, it's on the public property. It would be the city's ownership but it is paid for by the soccer association.
[5:58] so then if the city owns it what ongoing maintenance if needed would whose responsibility would that be at that point? That is probably something that will be stipulated within the use agreement that they'd have to have with the city.
[6:20] they don't have the terms of that use agreement here as part of your packet but that is more than likely where we would cover that portion. >> okay. So there would be a use agreement for the for the use of the structure right. Given 510 year whatever it is and they would be responsible for any damage, graffiti maintenance or anything like that that would happen to that including replacement cost if something would happen to it.
[6:42] I believe that would be something that would be considered within the terms of that agreement. So it hasn't been provided at this point. So you don't have that in your packet but that is something I believe where that would be covered would be within the use agreement portion and that may be something that the association has already discussed with
[7:01] mr. Burke. That's or do we require insurance with that user agreement? Uh, I believe we probably would because of it being a city facility that is pretty common on other things that are city facilities. So I think that's probably accurate. Okay.
[7:32] and then let's just say five years down the road real decides now we're not going to we're not going to have a have a charter or whatever it is anymore that it belongs to the city. I've been around long enough to know we've changed a few associations over the years when it comes to soccer then it would be another use agreement.
[7:56] then if there was somebody else there would become just part of our inventory to maintain. Good question. I believe that probably would be something where if you're going to have an exclusive user or primary user you would probably have another use agreement with said entity.
[8:17] again, it's not included in this portion but but that is more than likely what we would end up doing on that. Would we ever require them to remove the facility or the structure if they disband? My my concern is is that when we build structures like this and it's great and you know there donations on there and they serve a purpose but I don't want to be stuck with
[8:36] something after if an association leaves that then adds to our operations and maintenance cost for our for our parks down the road. Sure. So I'd like to maybe have the city consider what that would look like in the absence of a association that the cost of operating and maintaining a structure doesn't fall back on
[9:06] to the park commissions or on m dollars under some sort of use agreement. Gifts are great but sometimes they just keep on giving and we don't have the budget for it so. Okay. >> and it's not explicit in the agenda item. Is this an exclusive use agreement between boral and the city? Um again, yes.
[9:36] it's not explicitly stated within that item. I believe that be something and again we would have to work out through a use agreement there may be some space within there that isn't exclusive to boreal. >> yeah.
[10:08] >> so that again in my mind that's part of the use agreement you know would need approval what the plan is for usage right. Or any other questions comments. >> >> I'm assuming that >> city staff have already checked that this building falls within the correct parameters and requirements of like how big the structure can be and everything is up to code or whatever that code might be for in the parks.
[10:37] well these are different than like a standard accessory structure would be for somebody whose lot because I mean those will have their own standards about how big they can be in parks in and of themselves are a little different.
[10:57] most of the buildings on there are usually what we would consider to be something smaller like an accessory building because there's no house, there's no city hall on them. But I guess the best answer to that is that within the park master plan what we call for is a much bigger structure than what this one ends up being. So that was a 40 by 40 instead of your 16 by 21.
[11:13] so that's a it's within the parameters of what you've already established in the parks master plan. The heights are pretty standard for accessory buildings. So from the standpoint of fitting within those parameters set by the parks board it would meet those. And then in terms of construction we would usually just make sure that it's consistent with building code and meets those standards. So thank you. I'm.
[11:49] what entities from the city are involved in the usage agreement? The approval order once it's clearly defined as it come back before this commission or is it go straight to parks or planning or a I don't know have you previously worked with the use agreement on there but if there is a desire to have something like that
[12:10] come back to talk about the user agreement that could be something that we would direct for staff that's here for you for the next time to bring that to your next meeting. Typically any agreement that the city enters into has to go through the city council through at least consent. Okay. That's that's pretty standard.
[12:32] so they are always included on those but I don't know off the top of my head if that's something that you guys have seen with previous use agreements that have come through this body.
[12:47] so if you don't if you feel strongly about that one way or the other, I think we would probably just want to give that direction to staff and then as they work through that process we can advise them of of that desire and I ask question because I don't know and we're being asked to you know if acceptable recommend to the city council from this commission.
[13:06] I just want to make sure that this commission is addressing all things that it should be in this discussion. So. Right. And as currently stated from commissioner stanzel, I mean there's things that the commission has an interest in in terms of the maintenance and use of the facility and what happens if association user isn't there.
[13:29] so I mean I think there's a few things now stated that the commission has an interest in that would be likely dealt with through that agreement. So you know we can certainly provide that to park staff that will be here to talk with you at future meetings.
[13:49] I think you're going to meet them at one of the next meetings so so we can certainly provide that direction and and they can give you some update on that at that time as they work through the agreement. Yeah, I think I think the last agreement we had was the end or station north. Yeah that's ten years ago or something about that.
[14:13] yeah the otherwise prairie no would there was a portion of that building was with football that that's come back a few times but we've never entered any agreement because we've never figured out the engineering of that building to make it suitable for the various uses that want to use it. So I have a question on placement and then trail or walkway sidewalk to get to the building.
[14:39] I just don't see that necessarily there's a clean sidewalk to get to the building and I'm wondering if that's going to be a problem or again, you know, carrying supplies in from the field to the building if we expect to have to build any sidewalks around it.
[15:07] yeah, I and that was not something that they stated within the report on here and I believe you're correct I don't think there's existing ones that are even shown within the plan here to provide access to that. Unfortunately I do not have an answer for you at that moment but that's something that we can have dave or your staff follow up with on that.
[15:27] yeah, and just something I think that needs to be considered for city council before it's entered into >> I think the other I mean obviously there's probably sprinkler lines around the area also and the builder is responsible for that or the city is moving that.
[15:54] and then one other thing I know a lot of places when they do something like this provide some vegetation cover or you know like some trees along the one side where the residents are on the east just to give it some break up from them. The wall line. Yeah . And in regard to landscaping, I don't think there's anything shown on there.
[16:17] it is kind of open in that space over to the residential property to the east. So it's a good point too. I think right now the plan doesn't address that. So I would just say overall to I think it's a great partnership. I don't want to downplay any of that either. They're just important things to think about before entering into these agreements.
[16:36] but I think any time the associations that are using those fields can bring us something as well. That's a great partnership to >> bring so are we acceptable with the plan being recommended with the notes of our concerns and essentially letting the appropriate people accept the risk? You know the city council and specifically >> or do you think what has been discussed should be we don't
[17:21] recommend it. I would make the agreement that with our considerations for discussion at city council that this seems like a recommendation to me. Yeah I, I, I mean was that your motion if you want to make that want to just make that as a motion and then I'll second it.
[17:45] commissioner horner making the motion to recommend to city council I'll second that all in favor I oppose motion carries next item discuss tree lighting event >>
[18:15] chair members the commission as I stated on the report here what they're looking at is the event to be held the first friday in december which this year would be december 4th 2026.
[18:38] the action requested of the body is to provide some additional items or activities you would like to see as part of that tree lighting ceremony and then volunteer any assistance you would have in terms of planning for said activities is prior to the event. I can just speak that I did volunteer last year on this committee.
[19:03] it is pretty well oiled committee that has their organization in check so I don't feel like I didn't too much necessarily had to do too much either but it was a great opportunity so I would love to do that again but would be willing to give that up to someone else who wants to do that this year. Comments I would say that I've been on that committee in the past.
[19:27] I was supposed to be on that committee last year but couldn't make any of the meetings so I won't take that from you. You may please join the committee. It is a great committee. Yeah I know in years past we've talked about the tree lighting event and placement of a tree.
[19:50] did we ever and we talked about planting a tree. Did the tree get planted last year? Yes. Okay. And and so that's all worked out okay. I think last year's amount was very good there. Well, the only thing that didn't really and it was a matter of logistics and expectations and communication was the the band did and did not end up playing. Oh sure.
[20:19] yeah I think they were in that grassy area. Well >> they were expecting more of a stage area and we essentially had a tent set up for them. So I think you know passing it on to the volunteer group to to help make sure expectation otherwise I think everything we have our actions were fantastic.
[20:42] so another reoccurring issue that we've had year over year is the audio. Nobody can hear the mayor's statements. Nobody can hear the countdown. And so maybe bringing those concerns to the committee as well something that will project in that big open space so everybody draws a large crowd so that everyone can hear and participate in the event it
[21:08] would be good to
[21:16] . But do you have anything peter I was just going to ask if there's any additional activities that that group wanted to ask as well. So we kind of covered some of the things in terms of how it's been worked through the previous years.
[21:37] were there any additional activities that the board wanted to see or commission I should say? But yeah, I was very happy with my experience last year as far as the balance of events and options of things to do while I was there.
[21:58] so so >> yeah I would say for my understanding last year was the first year that the fire department and city came together to do the drop off of donated goods as well as presents and I think that seemed to work really well. Drew a good crowd. So I would just say that to continue that activity as I believe again that was the first year last year. Any additional comment on the tree lighting about oh good good.
[22:32] okay next item six be doing I understood yeah so we were email old a request to waive some tournament fees one of which we've waived in the past and then another one came in and I believe we've discussed this in the past that we really should have a policy when it comes to fee waivers
[23:00] for particularly adult sports usage. We have a we have a policy that outlines the use and the payment and that type of thing and then we're asked to waive those fees. I'm not opposed to the groups. I want to be very clear about that and I supported it.
[23:25] however, I feel like it opens up an opportunity that we are becoming somewhat arbitrary and capricious on how we waive fees and I'd like a policy or something that kind of outlines the criteria for waiving fees.
[23:46] I just don't want to get caught in a situation where we denied somebody but we approve somebody else based off because we just like them or something. So it would be nice to have something that is a guide to this commission that says it meets these criteria as and what those criterias are. I think that's for council and our legal counsel to weigh in on what those are.
[24:09] but I just don't want to get caught in a situation where we become the, you know, softball tournament of the north because we're waiving fees and and you just become a nonprofit and you get it waived for free.
[24:27] so I think there's some really good intention here but I just want to be careful for the future that we're not setting a precedence and then we can't pull back from that precedence and taking away from youth and everything else because we're waiting for so that was that's I guess my discussion on it and if anybody else has any thoughts on that and I'll make a motion that we look at that but let's keep discussing it. Yeah.
[24:50] any other points that I >> would also like along with our policy and understand what the approved or correct procedure or acceptable procedure for asking for the variances in the sense that it had to be dealt with very quickly. We as a commission we're not meeting in a timely manner to meet those requirements.
[25:18] I think it needs to be clearly spelled out. What is the proper process for reviewing these requests and approving them. So that's stating when our request is should be made in advance of the event, right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's more than fair that if you're asking for a variance or a fee waiver that it doesn't come in days before.
[25:38] I mean I think there's an expectation like 30 or 60 days prior for consideration on any sort of waiver and then criteria or whatever they come up with.
[26:13] but I that's my my concern and everybody else I'll make a motion that that council or staff draft a policy around fee waivers for adult athletics I'll second that >> all in favor I opposed motion carries >> our next item on the agenda outstanding items >> chair and members of the commission within your packet you do have a sort of updates in here so the playground or replacements equipment's been provided for the two 2026 replacements for andover station north and creek crossings which have
[26:42] been delivered. They're currently looking at september october for installs on those at the skate park. Upgrades are planned here so staff is working with american ramp company to prepare a draft design layout that will be putting out to the public for comments and then city council has set a total budget project budget of $400,000
[27:07] which includes design and replacement of existing ramps and a new concrete feature out of the budget. $250,000 is coming from the park dedication funds for new improvements design and public input will be worked out this fall and winter and construction will begin in the spring. All in winter and construction will begin in the spring of 2027.
[27:31] in addition, there's some additional updates on trail replacement at kelsey round lake park construction has begun and will be completed by the end of october. Some bench additions for the town madison trail there out on coon creek where benches are in order and should be installed in late 2026 or early spring of 27.
[27:59] the sunshine parking lot lot lighting has been contracted contracted with can access energy and the lighting installation will be completed before winter park ridge park parking lot paving engineering has been working on this design but the construction itself be moved out to 2027 and we have another one here which is the same thing on the kelsey round lake park
[28:25] item. So some other items of interest. There's some new trail additions from crosstown boulevard zion to prairie active transportation funding grant application has been submitted for that particular segment and then a neutral segment was constructed along coon creek between prairie road and the eastern boundary of the city kind of tying into the shadow brook neighborhood
[28:51] that construction is completed and starts working on final paperwork for the dnr grant funds for that one. So I have a question going back to the skate park that I did, we get an email that there's a meeting this tuesday about this window with city hall and is that our time then to talk about design? It's typically
[29:23] when something comes out of park dedication and there's a design element it comes to the commission for review before it goes to council and no different than the design that came before tonight on a building.
[29:46] so I'm just curious as to why the skate park that's got a dedicated funding of 250 $250,000 didn't come to this commission for design review before going to council. It's an excellent question. I don't know what the answer is on that particular segment in terms of why they did it that way. I believe the discussion will be with the council work session for tuesday.
[30:10] but yeah if you're traditional manner have been to bring that here before proceeding to a council meeting I'm not entirely sure why it was rooted in that particular way that was not explained to me so you get an explanation on that we can get someone to provide that back to you at the next meeting or via email. I'd be great. You know before tuesday would be great.
[30:30] I'm just curious as to I feel like we're procedurally changing some things here that this commission is kind of responsible for when it comes to park dedication and design and replacement and that kind of seems like it missed a step here so in >> the email that went out they did talk about the song and dance of people
[30:55] having to switch positions and the the timing of those is kind of been some of the change in what we're here tonight. Yeah I know I mean we're here tonight this could have been an had this would have been perfect it's sort of been an item ad for tonight with some design concepts that could have been presented
[31:15] tonight and we could have went to council on tuesday. So I when I saw that come through I was kind of going I actually had it for last tuesday two days ago and then I looked in wait, wait a minute, it's next tuesday so why wouldn't those come tonight as an item ad even though the agenda was
[31:37] posted as an amendment to so I'm just a little taken aback when we spend park dedication it doesn't necessarily follow the normal procedures and I think the permanent staff that will be probably attending most of your meetings is not with us yet.
[32:02] so once they're on board probably go to your normal means of how that would usually track through the process and as commissioner lindahl said because it's been a little bit of a in between here that may have accounted for some of that along those lines out as a council be notified I don't know all everything that's in the email thread make sure the council is notified prior
[32:24] to the meeting on tuesday that this process has been deviated from so that they can comment on whether or not they want to proceed with discussing it >> but is tuesday's meeting an official band joint meeting or is it was a registered invite if we want to come I didn't see a joint meeting.
[33:02] I have a problem with that. I'm sorry. I just we're going to be as audience and yeah I mean that this that this goes against what our charter is as far as our commission so I it'd be different if it was an invite to a joint meeting but if if we're just there to put input into this you're bypassing us
[33:21] and that and that's that's wrong especially on this dollar amount coming out of park dedication >> would >> we be able to could we recommend to the city or city council to not discuss it until we've had a chance? Could we you know can we make that request? I mean that's that's why I want
[33:44] to very clear to council prior to them starting the meeting so that they're aware and I mean ultimately they can make the decision when they're going to proceed or not without our input or without this council's and excuse me and I don't know the question the answer to your question I think our concerns need to be
[34:09] communicated also. We will certainly make sure those get forwarded on the council and we'll also try to get some clarity in terms of if it's technically a full joint meeting or if it was just one that was invited to I did not get the same email you guys got so I don't know it was on
[34:28] there but we can certainly find that out tomorrow and get you guys an answer. You know it's one from david so and there was last week and either last friday maybe or you sort of or or previous yeah it was earlier in the week >> I can I don't I didn't read it as a
[34:53] joint because I didn't get an agenda I didn't get nothing I just got I think a joint meeting would have to be posted as such it would so >> I didn't get it okay just got lost in other emails or you know other well we're in between outstanding items and chair report any other follow
[35:23] up on outstanding items was we move on to the chairs reports? I do have something to report so I think it was back at the end of july I was able to do the interview with q t v at andrews park so there was the interview opportunity for andover, champlin, anoka and ramsey.
[35:48] we got about four minutes so that went great and was able to highlight some of what the park and rec commission is doing and what we've done for the city and then also just wanting to report that.
[36:10] q kptv offered any time we have an event they are more than happy to consider coming out and doing some sort of filming or promotion. So thank you jim just put going so there's kids and activities and all the perks of being here >> are multiple people ask me to ask the commission to install permanent pickleball so far because this one was flimsy and ball goes under and if possible to do marking and the tennis court for pickleball so if possible
[36:44] please include that in 2027 budget and also people want to have updates on pickleball courts at all. Q when project was them is public can using this court's I think right now are pickleball courts for city hall here we're kind of on hold with the development plan but we we did have plans in
[37:16] our discussions and and some ideas set out already but it's up to all the city lays out the remaining portions of the development >> I'm glad you brought that up the oak view that's at the school school yeah and did we we're not paying for any of that, right? No, it was the middle
[37:41] school was going to install them and wanted to know I think it was brought before us like would we consider that the pickleball courts for the area and I think we said we had our concerns because that was not public space that school property right a lot of daily usage by retired individuals or whatever it be
[38:04] a big I mean that's when most people play is early morning or even into the midday spring and fall when it's nice you know yeah >> the one thing I'll add is is yeah correct we transition into fall sports. Everything looks good.
[38:30] I know that there has been some staff change over but the parks look great but visited many of them and they look top not even know that there's been a little bit of change in that or a drought or a drought. Yeah there is that but I think that's everywhere so but no they look great so nothing to report.
[38:50] I have nothing to report in with at all and a motion to adjourn I'll second all in favor opposed motion carries