1 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:16,160 My big butt wasn't heavy enough to be able to get it out of there. 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:27,680 » Okay, we've come out of executive session at 6:25 p.m. Uh, so move second. 3 00:00:23,439 --> 00:00:31,599 » Motion by Belma, second by Phil. All those in favor 4 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:37,040 motion carries. >> Yeah. 5 00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:42,000 » All right. Looking for a motion from the executive session. I move that the we 6 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:47,840 authorize the town to contribute the sum of $20,344.58 7 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:56,160 towards the resolution of an employment claim um as recommended by council and 8 00:00:53,039 --> 00:01:00,840 uh to come from the uh employment line budget. 9 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,600 » Okay. Motion by Tom >> subject to the question about the 10 00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:10,400 attorney's fees. >> Correct. 11 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:16,080 » I'll second that. Seconded by Velma. Any other discussion? 12 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:20,119 All those in favor. Motion carries. None opposed. 13 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:29,200 Okay. Next item on the agenda that we need to 14 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:32,840 talk about is the uh structural engineering RFP. 15 00:01:37,759 --> 00:01:44,960 » Keith, I'll let you take over. >> Yeah. What I did is I took a stab at uh 16 00:01:42,479 --> 00:01:51,360 establishing as you as you well know the the uh fire station committee uh tabled 17 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:57,759 any further actions until we we provide an independent structural study of the 18 00:01:54,640 --> 00:02:04,000 existing fire station. So you I was instructed or asked to put together a 19 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:11,039 RFP which I have in front of you uh tonight. Um the RFP is is is very uh 20 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:16,879 generic. It's not specific in nature other than um that we want a structural 21 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:23,440 engineer to give us a complete review of the uh existing fire station that was 22 00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:28,239 built in 1998. So, part of the documents would not only be the RFP that I 23 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:34,800 developed, the background information, but I'd also provide them a copy of the 24 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:40,000 uh tax card so they can see the dimensions 25 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:47,040 um of the building uh under the card and provide them an opportunity to come 26 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:51,760 before they provide to us uh um their analysis of of or their cost associated 27 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:58,239 with it. What we're trying to get would be um a a group of folks based on the 28 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:05,280 the list that I provided to you along with the name of a structural engineer 29 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:10,319 that um select board member Basset had provided to us. He would be part of the 30 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:14,959 package. Send that out to them requesting for them to get back to us 31 00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:20,879 with a a cost and maybe an hourly rate as well. um so we can determine and and 32 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:28,720 then at that point once you get those information you may at your discretion 33 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:33,840 want to interview one or two of these uh firms to determine you know uh 34 00:03:31,519 --> 00:03:39,840 specifically what they're are going to try to do what their thoughts are and 35 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:46,080 moving forward. So um that way we keep it independent. Um the engineer would 36 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:52,319 make an analysis based on what they see and what they determine. And then at 37 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:56,480 that point if we wish to ask those specific questions that have been 38 00:03:53,760 --> 00:04:01,439 developed, then we can begin to ask those questions in a in a way that you 39 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:06,480 would like to have the questions asked um to gain that knowledge if it's 40 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:10,879 important once he gives us a review. and that that was the way I put it. So I 41 00:04:08,959 --> 00:04:17,759 right now you have the the the draft in front of you obviously anything you want 42 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:22,479 to change. Um let me know um and as soon as you know we'll try to get it out 43 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:25,759 ASAP. Yeah, I've got some recommended changes 44 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,800 but I'll I didn't get to email it to you but I'll I'll do that every 45 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:34,080 » Okay. >> The other thing is I think we have to 46 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:36,639 eliminate Oak Point from Engineers. I'm the clerk of the corporation. So, 47 00:04:35,919 --> 00:04:37,919 » okay. >> Yeah. 48 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:44,960 » Okay. >> Maybe a little problematic. [laughter] 49 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:48,960 » So, so speaking of Oak Point, they more than likely they would have prints to 50 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:54,240 the should have prints to the fire station, right? 51 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:57,520 » I I would guess, but in 1998, I don't know whether they keep records that far. 52 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:02,400 » I can certainly inquire >> if they I can inquire to the fact that 53 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:05,600 we cannot find our prints. And if the prints do exist that they have a copy of 54 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,479 them, we appreciate that. >> I think that would be good real good 55 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:13,600 information. >> Well, that would be good for for any any 56 00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:17,600 other firm that would be coming in to take a look at to see if those print and 57 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:22,960 then when they start doing the examination whether the the prints 58 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:27,840 coincide with what actually was built. And hopefully there was a clerk and 59 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:31,240 there was a review of that project when it was being built. 60 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,840 Okay. So, Tom, you said you were going to take a take a quick peek and come up 61 00:05:36,479 --> 00:05:41,199 with some comments or I >> I've got them, but they're all written 62 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:44,840 out and you know, you guys couldn't read it. 63 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:44,840 » Yeah. 64 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:53,199 » I'm going to have it retyped up and I'll I'll circulate it among everybody. 65 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:56,400 » Yep. That's fair. And we >> What is What is it? You've got things to 66 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:00,000 add to this. >> I got changes in wording. Yeah. And a 67 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:03,440 few things I wanted to add. I mean I think one of the things we got to add 68 00:06:01,039 --> 00:06:09,520 here is we want to know what uh interruption there would be in the 69 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:14,400 service if the um project was undertaken as proposed. Um so I mean that's not 70 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:18,880 here and I thought we ought to inquire about that is one of the thing but I 71 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:22,880 just got a few other just you know way in which I would word it. It's not 72 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:28,960 better than case but throw it out there and go from there. 73 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:32,199 I I think that needs to be worded in a way of 74 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:41,280 I can't know I keep saying this but finding a way to get to yes that that 75 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:49,039 what we are looking for is an engineering approach that will 76 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:53,639 minimize disruption of current operations 77 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:53,639 and 78 00:06:55,199 --> 00:07:04,960 avoid code compliance problems that had to cost. I I I do I 79 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:12,880 was wondering I I I had said in in an email I think I copied everybody on it 80 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:18,000 um that we should include the size of the doors 81 00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:21,840 and what the vertical clearance inside needs to be 82 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:25,599 both just for the trucks going through but 83 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:33,919 also uh to allow for the the door and 84 00:07:28,319 --> 00:07:38,240 whatever is above. the door. Um, is it is that something that should be 85 00:07:35,599 --> 00:07:42,639 in here? >> I don't I don't I don't have that. But, 86 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:47,120 uh, you know, once I I mean, we can work it through once we get to a place where 87 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:51,680 everybody's comfortable with. >> Did Didn't anybody get the email that I 88 00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:56,879 sent? >> I did not get it. 89 00:07:54,479 --> 00:07:56,879 » Okay. 90 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:05,199 I didn't get an email either unless you sent it just to my work. I was not at 91 00:08:02,479 --> 00:08:09,160 work today so I didn't get it either. Anybody else got any comments? 92 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,360 » The green um when 93 00:08:19,759 --> 00:08:26,240 » date the name please. >> Melanie Mitchell. 94 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:31,919 Um when the architectural engineer goes out to do the inspection of a fire 95 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:37,680 station building um are the committee members welcomed while they while he's 96 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:43,279 doing the inspection um create a dialogue and maybe ask some other 97 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:48,399 questions that would help create a better building plan 98 00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:53,040 that is that possible for the other committee members to go out 99 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:58,560 » I'm I'm confused and I you know I'll lay And what we're doing right now with this 100 00:08:55,519 --> 00:09:03,760 RFP would to hire a structural engineer to review the existing structure, 101 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:10,320 nothing more at this point. Provide how it was built, what what the trusses are, 102 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:16,000 what the masonry is, what insulation packages are there to provide us a 103 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:21,920 review of that information. And then based on the stuff that you would and I 104 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:26,320 think that um select board member Basser would like to have is those questions 105 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:30,320 then can be asked of this expert after he's reviewed the building. I think 106 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:35,839 that's important for him to have an independent review of the building on 107 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:44,240 his own before any questions are asked. Well, I I just my concern is partly that 108 00:09:41,839 --> 00:09:52,720 it'd be nice to have one have a dialogue with whoever is is doing it doing the 109 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:57,040 inspection. Um, and additionally to that, the the fire station members are 110 00:09:54,880 --> 00:10:02,959 also going to be present there while this inspection is happening. So, for 111 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:09,680 transparency purposes, I think I'm just saying it may may be a good idea. 112 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:13,839 » Well, I mean, I I wouldn't think that anybody from the fire station is going 113 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:17,360 to um 114 00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:20,399 get the structural engineer to say something other than what is actually 115 00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:24,560 there. He's putting his name, he's putting his stamp on it. He's not going 116 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:29,279 to set himself up to any future litigation down the road. So no matter 117 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:34,000 what people tell him, he's I wouldn't think that he's going to be influenced. 118 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:37,360 He's signing his name to it. So I >> Okay. And I completely understand that. 119 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:44,560 But I'm also going to draw bring back into question the port city architect 120 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:51,200 letter that um had cited things in that letter that was 121 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:57,920 stated as fact and as code which were not. So, 122 00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:04,800 I don't I I just want to have a fire department built with transparency and 123 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:10,800 something that the voters and the town of Arundo want that's transparent and is 124 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:15,680 open. Um, and and I don't want all this scrutiny that's attached to it. But I 125 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:24,720 didn't create that scrutiny. I just researched and and found answers. And um 126 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:31,440 you know I I I do bring into question you know Port City and the the work that 127 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:38,000 they've done so far and the the letter in itself that they did write 128 00:11:35,839 --> 00:11:42,880 um it's it does bring up a lot of questions and it has attached to it an 129 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:48,880 integrity issue. So, I mean, I I think that their letter 130 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:53,519 certainly begs questions to say that their information is not factual. I 131 00:11:51,839 --> 00:11:57,920 think it's incorrect. You ran it through your AI. I ran it through three 132 00:11:55,519 --> 00:12:03,279 different other AIS and none of the information came back that said it was 133 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:08,079 not factual. It's it's >> and so do I. And it's just a matter of 134 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:13,760 there are more questions that need to be asked. sort of to sit on and say port 135 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:18,000 city your letter is wrong I think is gaslighting them and it's incorrect. We 136 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:21,360 need to get more information before we can actually say whether they're right 137 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:24,959 or they're wrong and that's what the structural engineer will do. 138 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,519 » It depends on what question you you question asked. 139 00:12:25,839 --> 00:12:30,959 » I asked the same question that you did Melanie. So I I I don't want to get into 140 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:35,200 the discussion. We're going to we're going to have the these architects come 141 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:40,079 in. They're going to do their their study and I mean what more do you guys 142 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:44,639 want? How many structural engineers do you guys want us to bring here? Right. 143 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:49,680 » I just bringing up a question. Is it's not okay to ask questions now? 144 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:51,680 » No, it's not okay to answer. >> No. 145 00:12:50,480 --> 00:13:00,560 » Okay. >> Like come on. Um, the other question 146 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:05,600 that I had was with the RFP is if uh if some other architectural firm, 147 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:11,200 engineering firm sees this, hears about this RFP, are they allowed if they're 148 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:16,480 not on the list to to um to answer the RFP? Is that would 149 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:21,680 that be an acceptable practice? >> Of course it would. Yeah. Yeah. I the 150 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:25,519 the list can be if the if the board decides that they want it to go out to 151 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:30,959 every structural engineer in the state of Maine, I can do that. If they I only 152 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:37,040 provided a list and then uh select board member Basset provided somebody that he 153 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:40,720 knew. Um and so if you have somebody that you that is a structural engineer 154 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:46,320 that's licensed in the state of Maine, then I don't have a problem sending them 155 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:49,360 an RFP. >> Good. 156 00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:54,560 » Yeah. I I'm just trying to help. I'm not trying to make this more of a confusing 157 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:59,680 process. I'm not trying to disrupt the process. I just want it to be a better 158 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:03,440 process because I have people asking me questions about it, too. And I want to 159 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:07,360 be able to answer those questions the best that I can. And if I don't have the 160 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:12,480 answers, I'd love to be able to send them to this board or to the committee. 161 00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:16,920 And I I think that's only fair and that's the only reason why I'm here. 162 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:22,120 Okay. Any other comments from the board? >> Y. 163 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:27,600 » So, as soon as you get all that information, you will send this RFP. 164 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:31,040 » Yeah, we'll we'll have to look at it again and then 165 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,680 » Tom will give me his stuff and then um maybe we'll have it on our agenda for 166 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:38,600 the 14th. >> Yeah. 167 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,600 » Discuss it again. 168 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:46,880 Chip, mic, turn your mic on, please. No. 169 00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:56,440 All right. Um, the other item that we have is Chip, you wanted to talk about 170 00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:56,440 the audit 171 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:05,839 scheduled. It It's scheduled for the 5th to the 9th of October. 172 00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:09,600 We we provided all the information they've requested preliminary before 173 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:13,680 they come in and do their complete review. All that information has been 174 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,720 provided to them. They have scheduled it and they've scheduled it from the 5th to 175 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:20,639 the 9th. >> Question. 176 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:22,240 » Okay. What are we talking about? >> That's the one we're waiting for right 177 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:27,760 now. >> Waiting for Okay. Yeah. All right. 178 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:32,480 » My my concern, the reason I I brought it up was in the context of setting a tax 179 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:36,720 rate. It it's troubling to me to set a tax 180 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,399 rate for um 181 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:46,959 the this fiscal year when we don't have an 182 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:52,160 audit from 2025 uh particularly when we're talking about 183 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:58,000 spending fund balance uh to reduce the tax rate. I I would like to have the 184 00:15:54,240 --> 00:16:04,800 confidence of a completed audit uh before we do that. obviously not going 185 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:10,320 to be able to have the the uh completed audit. I I I 186 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:15,560 do not understand why it has taken so long to get this audit completed. 187 00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:25,120 » The the audit is complete. It's like, you know, we 188 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:28,800 » the the materials have all been the materials that are requested by the 189 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:34,399 auditor's firm has been collected and provided to them. They now will do their 190 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:41,360 their uh analysis. They'll come in and and check the balances and pull pull um 191 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,839 um um 192 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:50,800 » payables and samples and and look at all those and then provide us a complete 193 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:55,519 » and we can't we can't provide them that until we close our books, right? 194 00:16:52,959 --> 00:16:59,120 » Well, no. Yeah, we're all set with air. Um this, you know, we're we're set for 195 00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:04,480 that. So, >> I think what Chip is asking is you want 196 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:08,559 you want a complete audit of this last year before we set the tax rate. Is that 197 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:14,240 what you're asking? >> I I think that that 198 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,880 I'm I'm not asking that because it's obviously not feasible. 199 00:17:15,919 --> 00:17:24,160 » Correct. >> Okay. But I I am disturbed that it that 200 00:17:20,959 --> 00:17:31,280 the audit has been delayed so long. The town now has all of the material 201 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:38,080 numbers etc. the internal audit information available. I don't 202 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:45,919 understand why it took three or four extra months compared to a 203 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:50,880 normal year to get that squared away. Normally the audit is in the annual 204 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:58,160 report which is provided at town meeting in June. It's September 205 00:17:54,480 --> 00:18:05,559 and the audit isn't done. And I'm I I I don't understand what the problem was, 206 00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:05,559 why it's been delayed so long. 207 00:18:11,679 --> 00:18:18,360 Am I the only one who who who thinks that this is a problem? 208 00:18:21,919 --> 00:18:30,240 For me, I have not examined the audit in terms of setting the tax rate. It's been 209 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:34,480 what we get from the assessor. That information has been what we relied 210 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:38,039 upon. That's just me. 211 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:48,559 Okay. This is the audit that was 212 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:51,840 Melanie Mitchell. Was this the audit that was supposed to be in the town 213 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,880 report book last year that we're talking about that wasn't in there? 214 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,880 » Yes. >> Okay. 215 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:14,000 We have everything in place so that next year 216 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:20,799 » Yeah. to chips. He already asked if we can 217 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:25,200 expedite next year's by sometime in the first of the of the year and try to get 218 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:30,480 it done before we give course to it. I've already we've already provided that 219 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:37,400 information to the auditor. Okay. Thank you. 220 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,400 » Okay. Um, anybody got anything else? 221 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:50,559 Looking for a motion to adjourn at 6:45 p.m. Some of Wow. Second. 222 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:55,880 » Motion by Velma, seconded by Phil. Any other discussion? All those in favor?