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Okay. Open public meeting, planning and zoning commission for Wednesday, September 2, 20, 26, and we have a roll call please.

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Max.

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Here.

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Here.

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Marianne.

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President.

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Eric.

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Tom.

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Here.

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Ken.

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Theresa.

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Here.

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Thank you.

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Great. Are there items from commissioners that are not on today's

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agenda comments?

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I just had it. I thought I know we've talked a lot about FAR and maybe

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this is more of a city staff question but I was wondering if at some point we could potentially

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do walk through of a space just to do one of our work sessions in that regard that's just

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suggestion. I need more information. I don't understand what you're asking. To work on

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understanding the mathematics and the metrics that we're utilizing to determine square

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footage.

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Okay.

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Okay. Charlie.

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Okay. Anyone else have comments for items at art on today's

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I will bring up that we have, when we all agree to be commissioners, we agreed to an attendants and our maximum that we're allowed to miss maximum meetings this for a year.

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And I would just like to remind everyone that this is an agreement we've all agreed to be here and I understand that life comes out sometimes.

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But I believe our priority should be to showing up to P&Z on Wednesdays because that is what we all agree to find.

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So just as an FYI, if you're going to be gone, I would appreciate that you email Tracy and myself just so we know,

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because a lot of times I have no idea, and I don't know just send a quick email that's like, hey, not going to be there.

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I'm going to be there, and the reminder is it's four meetings per year that we agreed that we would miss.

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the maximum form. If we are going to miss, and we are going to email, should we do two

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separate emails? No, because you can email me and Tracy totally fine. Great. I appreciate

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that you can't email me, Tracy, and Tom. Perfect. That's the problem. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you.

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No,

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just that you're going to be gone. Yeah, just not going to be absence and I also believe

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Eric just showed up, yes, I'm sure that, yeah, just wanted the notes to reflect.

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Thank you.

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Charlie.

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I'm going to order this one on Tuesdays when it changed.

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Can you use your microphone?

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Yeah, but you got to use it.

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Thanks.

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I was appointed to a board that met on Tuesdays.

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And that's when I made the agreement when it changed the Wednesdays.

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I said I had a commitment to ride bikes on Wednesdays in the summer.

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If they didn't want me, they knew I was in the summer.

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I offered to not be here.

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So if that was about me, that's fine, but just understand.

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All the number two.

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We've been brewing on parcels based off of F-A-R.

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And if there's not something, if anybody else does not understand F-A-R, is it scares me?

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That's someone who has been voting on stuff.

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where we talk about FAR, like police talk about speeding,

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and that it was all the time,

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that someone doesn't know how to calculate that for FAR.

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It scares me.

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Other things that people don't know about that they need,

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that they've been ruling up, just a question,

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from confidence of a board,

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because I would find that to be legally quite worrisome.

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I think that there are a lot of things,

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There's a lot of technical stuff in the code. I think that floor area is confusing even to those of us in the design community who

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No had a calculate it and I'm looking at Louise to say it's not always simple

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I think that we all have a lot we can all wear more things so and

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It doesn't concern me as much because we don't vote on the on calculating the floor area

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We rely on our very knowledgeable plan

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Thanks to have to confirm floor area at permit, and that is our job. Our job is not to calculate

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floor area. There's taken number 5,700 and say it's too much too little.

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Thank you.

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I agree allheartedly with what you just said. On the other hand, if what Charlie is suggesting

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is that we have a session where there's time on the agenda to have a tutorial on how to calculate

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F.A.R. and for a ratio or for that would be fabulous, because I would really like to learn some more about it.

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I think having a work session to learn how to do that is great.

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My comment is, I'm not concerned that some of our board members don't, because that is not necessarily our job.

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I think learning more how to do it is a great request, I think that would be really helpful.

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Which brings us to our planning staff comments?

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That's perfect timing.

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Perfect.

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Good afternoon everybody, Dan Fault, planning director.

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So yeah, we could definitely schedule some training on

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Flora areas and maybe some other technical standards that you

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see in your staff reports.

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One clarification, I don't think it's helpful to do it in a space

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because I think that that gets really confusing.

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I think doing it on plans is a much easier way to do it.

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And that's how it's technically calculated.

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So that would be my request.

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Yeah, I think we may have some agendas actually coming up

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in October or maybe we can do that.

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Anyway, it's some other things we were going to follow up on as well.

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So we can do that.

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And then looking for future agendas,

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you do have one item coming up in two weeks.

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So on the 16th of September,

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you'll have a special review for property.

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And that's about it for now.

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It's from future agendas.

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What's that?

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your favorite special reviews yes you remember there was a pretty

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lengthy list of things that fall under special reviews so yeah so the first

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meeting in October we have nothing we don't have anything on the agenda but that

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could change okay but at this point we don't have anything on the October date

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yet and if we don't we'll do some training at that first meeting okay that's

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It was great.

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Anything else for us today?

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I don't think so.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you.

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Are there comments from members of the public for items that aren't on today's agenda?

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Okay.

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We will move on closing that section.

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We had some meeting minutes in our packet from, I believe, March 4th,

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2026.

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Are there any comments or discussion points for that?

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is there a motion to a prayer?

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Motion to approve? Second. Can we have a roll call please? Max?

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Are you here? Charlie? Yes.

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Burian? Yes. Eric? Yes. Tom? I think I was there. Yes, I was there. Ken? Yes. Theresa? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you.

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What are the meaning were you are you supposed to abstain? Even if you read them, this is a question. Point per person.

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If you've read the meeting minutes you can vote, you are welcome to abstain if you would prefer.

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Thank you.

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There've been a case since I read those minutes.

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I can't vote now to approve.

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Are there any declaration of conflicts?

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Okay.

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Has legal notice been properly put in?

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No, you just had some questions?

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Yes.

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Please.

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All right.

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All right.

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Yeah, good evening.

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Pean members.

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They're talking with each other.

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They'll contribute their special review or be able to proceed straight to permit.

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So if you didn't have a chance to check that out, I would give it a read.

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It's a little confusing.

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I'm not gonna lie, but it's a little more info on kind of what the Condav director was thinking when we wrote that.

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And then Tracy sent out the drawings that were submitted.

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There was a little bit of a mix up.

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I thought I was just getting the last of the four-area counts, but it was a different plan set.

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So we had Tracyson that out. I hope you guys were able to go over that. I know the applicant team is going to go over that in detail.

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But if you have any questions, that's what we're here for.

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Yeah, with that, we'll have the applicant team take over and start this off.

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Thanks, Jeff. Chris, we'll least come on up.

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All right, good evening, everyone.

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Chris Pindon for the record.

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We send an end as our contact is here with me

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and Barry Cateon.

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It was the owner of the property is joining us.

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Hello, hello.

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I'm going to have Jeff mentioned.

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So we did have a updated drawing pack to go out Monday

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or yesterday to the PNZ.

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And just to be abundantly cautious about the record,

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we're going to make sure that we have everyone up to speed as those drawings on the

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asked Louise to walk through those.

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I have physical sets that I will pass out here in a second and we'll do a essentially a

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page flip. We'll go quickly because there's 32 pages, a lot of which is just information

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that is in every architectural set, but it's usually not all that interesting. Sorry,

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but it's just that way.

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So with that, let me pass these around.

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All right, Louise, if you want to just,

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I can flip through the sheets.

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If you want to just mention what the sheets are

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as we cruise through those.

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And this is the set that Tracy emailed to you.

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Oh, but evening everyone, I'm going to be swimming in this.

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So what's up on the screen now?

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If you make images, I'm just going to go through

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point out the differences in all of these drawings so we can just go through them quickly and

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about it with the ones that nothing has changed. What you notice here that's different from

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the prior design is that we reduce the amount of second floor exterior wall modifications

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while still maintaining a cohesive architectural relationship with the actual Indian unit.

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This is 3DU of the alley side of the property.

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The changes are primarily on the east unit, which is the one in the right-hand side

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in this view.

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We remove the second floor deck, Tom Gorman, and that's suggested that, maybe we can explore

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that option.

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We explored it and discussed it with the owner.

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He was kind of juggling priorities, the priorities being the elevator and the primary

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bedroom on the main living levels as for lifestyle. That's what's most important to them.

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So he has reached to remove the deck area and we remove the entire second floor deck on that east wing.

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Good thunder also raised the concern that maybe that deck was going to be overlooking their property.

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So, not only did we eliminate the deck, but we also preserved the south and east walls of that second floor of their entirety.

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So, it just provides even more privacy for that.

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This is the survey.

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Here we go.

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John also mentioned that there was an encroachment.

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And the encroachment that you see there is just that little bit of flag stone paving.

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That's crossing the property line.

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and we reach an agreement with the good

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than they're going to mean it, not a result.

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So that's no longer an issue.

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It's just that we can skip this one or something.

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That's changed.

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Flow area, this is the demolition calculations.

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There's four pages of that.

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The only thing worth noting here is that we were able

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to reduce the amount of demolition and destruction,

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which resulted a decrease from 18.94% demolition to 16.28 and we accomplished that by

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preserving. Again, most of those second floor east wing walls that I just mentioned

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in the previous 3D image.

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Existing if they are, no changes to that. We're going to skip

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through that. We low grade area calculations and no change there.

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Z008, that's the proposed floor area calculations. And I'll just note some variations from what's in the current staff report.

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I think the current staff report was a table on page 8. I believe it was, and it carried through the previous versions numbers.

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So I just want to update you with those.

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The first floor, the basements remain the saying 563 square feet,

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which represented at 245 square foot reduction

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from the existing basement floor area.

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The first floor area is 1514 square feet.

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The second floor is 1767.

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The total above-grade floor area represents

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and 11 square foot reduction in above-grade floor area from what currently exist on the property.

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The decks are now only 150 square feet, which is 328 square feet.

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That's going to be existing condition, and a 218 square foot reduction from the previous scheme.

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The total then out of the floor area becomes 3994,

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which is 584 square feet less than the existing and 220 square feet less than the previous scheme.

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Proposed basement wall area no change there,

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height, calculations you see on the screen now.

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We corrected the existing non-conformity by reducing the window wells to less than 100 square footage.

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Cycle and no change, existing basements and no change, same with the existing 104, no change, 105, no change, another these existing changed, 107, 105, no change, 108, no change, 109, we reduce the amount, so this is the demolition plan, the second floor,

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We reduce the amount of exterior of all destruction on the east wing, and that's how we were able to reduce that percentage to what I mentioned previously.

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One-to-one-ten, the proposed basement plan, no change other than a slight shift in elevator location.

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1-11, no change again other than just a slight shift in elevator location, 1-12.

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So at the previous hearing, we were asked to explore opportunities to lose the amount of

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that area.

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And I mentioned we did that, and we went beyond that, simply very reducing an explore

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reasonable opportunities to eliminate or at least minimize the amount of floor area

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reallocation between the two units because the east and west wings are not connected

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above grade, some connection between the wings is necessary in order to incorporate

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an elevator serving all floors and to relocate the primary bedroom to the main living level.

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We were able to reduce the connection to the minimum necessary consisting essentially of

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bridge between the two wings on the second floor.

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The revised design also preserves more of existing building footprint

237
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:50,220
in exterior walls.

238
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:53,880
A first floor remains as previously designed.

239
00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:59,800
In order for unit 123 to satisfy the minimum area required

240
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:05,120
by code, some reallocation or floor area between the two units

241
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:08,180
is necessary at the first floor.

242
00:19:08,180 --> 00:19:10,240
But we get that to a minimum,

243
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:13,880
one-third team.

244
00:19:17,690 --> 00:19:21,190
Here we just revised the root of the second-floor

245
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:23,370
iswing to preserve more of the existing

246
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,480
North Alleration.

247
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:31,020
We kept more of the existing wall locations

248
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:35,220
along the front view there, which is the North Alleration

249
00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:39,460
on the left side, which is no change on 202,

250
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,760
203.

251
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:55,180
We reduce the amount of second for connection between the two units, which is what you can see there in section on the lower, on the lower, going

252
00:19:57,870 --> 00:19:59,210
204.

253
00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:08,580
We removed the deck from the second floor, so that just becomes a green roof. There, what you can see between grid 4 and 5.

254
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:18,420
We kept more of the south wall, like this thing south wall. We're still removing that existing kennel, you heard deck, as we were doing previously anyhow.

255
00:20:19,540 --> 00:20:28,500
And 2.05, we remove the wrap around that from the second fret more of the existing exterior walls on the second floor.

256
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,400
No change there, 7.01.

257
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,520
So here you can see the difference between the previous scheme and the current scheme.

258
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,760
So the drawing number 1 and the upper left hand corner, that's the existing condition.

259
00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:52,270
The drawing to the right and below just that with more of the yellow highlight area,

260
00:20:52,270 --> 00:20:53,910
But that was the previous scheme.

261
00:20:54,270 --> 00:20:58,950
And all of that yellow area was a reallocation of the floor area.

262
00:21:00,250 --> 00:21:06,070
And on the lower left hand corner is the current version, which shows how much we reduced

263
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:12,830
of that reallocated floor area to just that bridge connection between the two wings on the

264
00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:13,670
second floor.

265
00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:17,500
Okay.

266
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:19,560
Thank you, police.

267
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:26,560
Marianne, maybe second guessing her request to go through architectural plans.

268
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:33,260
Thank you.

269
00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:39,280
Okay, so I am going to go through, I have some slides that are from a previous presentation.

270
00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:49,260
I will blast through those with being cognizant of Mr. Tarber, who was not at the last meeting.

271
00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:54,420
So give me a speed-up or slow down as you need to, Charlie.

272
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,920
Just orientation pictures of the property from Havenet.

273
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,260
I'm in Avenue 123, it's on your left.

274
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,160
It's in the sort of original design state, 121.

275
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,140
It's on the right in the remodeled state.

276
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,660
That remodeled happened in 2012.

277
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:15,460
All right.

278
00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:19,140
That was then, and you just finished six years ago.

279
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,200
So, years ago, 2020, okay,

280
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:25,460
need to refresh myself.

281
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:38,940
Closer up on those two, 123 and the left, 121 on the right, and then the alley view of the two units, 123 on the right.

282
00:22:40,140 --> 00:22:43,340
And this view, 121 on the left.

283
00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:51,490
It's been a lot of time going through the criteria last time, I think we exhausted that conversation.

284
00:22:52,350 --> 00:22:58,650
So let me know if you want to circle back on that, but I feel like the record is complete on that and it had a pretty thorough conversation.

285
00:23:01,150 --> 00:23:06,690
So without being overly redundant on what the least went through on a highlight, the changes that you see in the plans.

286
00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:09,750
This is the basement plan.

287
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:20,690
So there's no change to this plan from what you saw on August 5th, so I've repeated that on the right hand side of the page with it's both August 5th and September 2nd plan.

288
00:23:21,090 --> 00:23:31,910
But we mentioned that the large area way that you see on the existing plan requires the measurement for height to be measured to the bottom of that area way.

289
00:23:31,910 --> 00:23:48,810
And with what you see on the right is the two window wells, because they are window wells of minimal size, the measurement is taken from the top of the window well, and so therefore it's only 25 feet tall instead of on the left you see it is measured as 35.

290
00:23:49,970 --> 00:24:00,830
It is a technique over substance sort of issue because the building is essentially the same building, but there's no longer measured down to the bottom of that area away.

291
00:24:00,830 --> 00:24:06,690
But it eliminates a non-conforming aspect of the property, which is good.

292
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:17,980
The first floor, this is on the right, you see the August 5th and September 2nd plan.

293
00:24:18,740 --> 00:24:25,940
The green area is that additional connector space that allows the access to the elevator.

294
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,480
Luis didn't say it, but if he went, I don't know how many iterations have been around in multiple

295
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:38,840
circles to come up with different plans, ended up landing back where he started, which is on the

296
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,160
first floor, this is the connection that's needed. Driven by a couple of things, I mentioned

297
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:50,420
the access. There's a floor area, Kelk, where the units need to have a maintain a certain ratio

298
00:24:50,420 --> 00:24:59,980
between the units. There's also an adjoining wall, a demising wall, connection that needs to be

299
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:08,340
So, for those factors, what you see in the September plan is the same as what you saw on the August plan for the first floor.

300
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:18,420
On the second floor is where you see the majority of changes. So, the second floor existing is what you see on the left.

301
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:26,080
On the right is a highlight of the existing deck area that goes away.

302
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:40,340
where you saw on August 5th is a sort of a pulling back of the deck that is on along

303
00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:49,240
the alleyway and then a conversion of interior space to deck area. So the actual amount

304
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,660
of deck area on that deck of the unit got bigger. It pulled back from the alleyway

305
00:25:54,660 --> 00:25:57,940
but there was conversion of interior space to exterior.

306
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:04,480
So if I flick it back and forth, you can sort of see where that interior space was here,

307
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:12,100
gets converted to deck area. On the front of the building, there was a sort of alicova area

308
00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:19,220
and then it was large deck out front. The deck went away, but the interior space expanded into that

309
00:26:19,220 --> 00:26:28,520
footprint above the first floor. That was a master or bathroom and a sort of a wider

310
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:42,140
connection area between the two units, okay? We had, after our meeting in August, we had

311
00:26:42,140 --> 00:26:50,140
phone call with Mr. Kaden, and the design professions, many of the meetings can be sort of fun,

312
00:26:50,660 --> 00:26:57,660
inspirational, rewarding, and invigorating. This conversation kind of shocked, actually, and

313
00:26:58,340 --> 00:27:08,360
which is part of the job, it comes in the territory. But added, described to Barry that the

314
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:17,040
And I didn't go very well, and that there was a mixed opinion about the on the acceptance

315
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:25,160
of the plan focused on some deck area, and if you remember Tom and I had a kind of

316
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:33,720
back and forth about the extent of deck area, there was neighbor comments about the extent

317
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,640
of deck facing the good-fender condos and on this page,

318
00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:41,680
it would be page top of page is the good-fender condominiums

319
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,720
to our immediate east.

320
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,380
And then I, in some concerns about noise and activity

321
00:27:48,380 --> 00:27:50,880
and disruption generating off of that deck,

322
00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:54,680
and some things about some encroachments

323
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,660
back and forth along the property on.

324
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,320
And I think for many of the members

325
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,260
is just kind of the overall extent of the change.

326
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:09,440
So, we had that not-fun conversation with Barry about the changes that we would need to

327
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:17,200
make to be able to walk back into this room. And the X's you see on the plan there are

328
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:24,340
the focus of those changes. So that deck in the back got totally creamed. And the expansion

329
00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:30,060
of the master bathroom in that connector piece, went away.

330
00:28:32,060 --> 00:28:40,280
So what you see here is these two areas in brown are existing areas that are interiors

331
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:40,720
space.

332
00:28:41,140 --> 00:28:46,920
So you see here interiors space, this little alcoe that juts out in the front and this area

333
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,480
here before you go out on the deck and the rear.

334
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,760
Those spaces are essentially chopped off with the building and it becomes roof area.

335
00:28:56,020 --> 00:29:05,560
And the connector piece that you saw in the prior plan is just a sort of a narrow connection point.

336
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,620
And at least I think you said that's 48 inches wide.

337
00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:15,980
Yes, the minimum required for a wheelchair site approach to the elevator door.

338
00:29:15,980 --> 00:29:21,000
Okay, so it might be for half feet, okay, it's the minimum.

339
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:21,960
It's the minimum.

340
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:22,400
Got it.

341
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,220
So bearing is well, so I have to go through that space, single file.

342
00:29:26,620 --> 00:29:26,980
Thank you.

343
00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:29,440
But those are the changes that were made.

344
00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:30,480
So let me see those.

345
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,200
Actually, as I was a conversation we made,

346
00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:35,840
I had with Dr. Kaden, we just got to work

347
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,400
and came back with what you see here for some dripper second.

348
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,040
So sort of composite view of that.

349
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:50,480
These yellow duct areas are completely eliminated, these orangey brown areas that are currently

350
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,060
inter-based or eliminated from the plan.

351
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,420
This green area here is the connection point that was added to the plan.

352
00:30:03,090 --> 00:30:22,390
We didn't focus on last time the deck here. That plant hasn't changed from August 2, September, but just to sort of highlight that the existing building has a large deck on roof deck on actually both units.

353
00:30:23,030 --> 00:30:28,910
The deck area on 123, the roof deck area is totally eliminated in this plan.

354
00:30:29,030 --> 00:30:40,230
I think there's some area for mechanical and things, and it was actually a good place to put mechanical units that, especially tight neighborhood or otherwise,

355
00:30:40,430 --> 00:30:43,230
sort of bothersome to neighbors if you put it right on the property line.

356
00:30:44,450 --> 00:30:48,150
So that's the deck plan, hasn't changed, but we didn't dwell on it last time.

357
00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:59,030
The exonometric plans that you see in the packet on the left are what you saw in August

358
00:30:59,030 --> 00:31:02,690
on the right is what you're seeing in the September plan.

359
00:31:02,830 --> 00:31:09,850
This is a view from the front, sort of bird's eye, axon, and the connector piece that was

360
00:31:09,850 --> 00:31:14,550
much more robust on the second floor is omitted and that's just sort of additional roof

361
00:31:14,550 --> 00:31:18,390
base to see sort of a minimal connector, please bear.

362
00:31:20,110 --> 00:31:26,810
Axe-on from the career of the property is Luis is describing the

363
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:31,570
deck area that you saw in August is eliminated here in the September

364
00:31:31,570 --> 00:31:32,590
Plan.

365
00:31:35,470 --> 00:31:38,710
I had a conversation with John Star.

366
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:43,050
John Star was the neighbor who came to the meeting last

367
00:31:43,050 --> 00:31:44,710
last meeting in August.

368
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:48,290
He's the neighbor in the Good Thunder condos.

369
00:31:48,410 --> 00:31:50,650
He's also the president of the condo association.

370
00:31:51,410 --> 00:31:54,610
John has been in town, I don't know, 50 years or so.

371
00:31:54,790 --> 00:31:57,810
I've probably known them, 30 of those years.

372
00:31:58,710 --> 00:32:01,470
Active in the community, I think he's on the CCLC.

373
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:04,330
He's been active in open space.

374
00:32:04,510 --> 00:32:06,490
I know, I think he's been on the Wheeler board.

375
00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:11,690
So he's familiar with planning reviews and so on.

376
00:32:11,690 --> 00:32:36,030
So, his comments were too fold the extent of deck on that second level, that would be, you know, intrusive to his enjoyment of his condo unit and other condo units in the good thunder, and some overlap of property improvements down the property line.

377
00:32:36,030 --> 00:32:44,550
So, went out and met with them, and we came to terms on the property overages.

378
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:52,630
So we have a small area where their fence is set back, and we use that area for kind

379
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:54,450
of getting back and forth from front to rear.

380
00:32:54,570 --> 00:32:57,510
There's some irrigation that goes through there, both stepping stones.

381
00:32:58,530 --> 00:33:05,010
Not a lot of improvement, but we rely on, we don't have to have it, but we enjoy it.

382
00:33:05,010 --> 00:33:13,250
John has some area in the along the alleyway where he would like an expanded widened parking area.

383
00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:15,950
It's some changes to the landscape there.

384
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:17,870
So we came to a agreement there.

385
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:19,610
We can do an easement and swap.

386
00:33:20,290 --> 00:33:24,710
I called John today. He's in New York at a function with his daughter.

387
00:33:25,690 --> 00:33:34,080
And said to me that I could confirm to you that he and good thunder are in full support of the application that you see in front of you.

388
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,240
tonight with the, with the amendments that we've made to the deck and the agreement we came to you on the

389
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:46,400
land swap easement area. So, that's important to us and hopefully that's important to you.

390
00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:53,240
I will finish with kind of going through a scorecard of where I think we were at our last meeting,

391
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:59,960
but I first wanted to have Barry kind of walk through and just say some comments about his

392
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,680
experience living there and the plans that he's been working out with the

393
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:04,140
least.

394
00:34:04,780 --> 00:34:05,600
Very good.

395
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:07,480
Hi, everybody.

396
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,460
Thank you guys for coming today, coming back.

397
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:19,660
So my wife and I have been coming to astronaut for 35 years and we've had a house here for

398
00:34:19,660 --> 00:34:21,000
her 20.

399
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:29,340
We raised, well, our kids grow up here, they learn to love nature, they learn to

400
00:34:29,340 --> 00:34:35,860
high sky, high ski, they developed a passion for that that they should keep today which

401
00:34:35,860 --> 00:34:37,800
to be is just fantastic.

402
00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:47,660
We live in LA, our main house in LA, we become pretty disenchanted with LA, as well as

403
00:34:47,660 --> 00:34:53,860
we lost our house, we had a little house in Alabama with the knowledge of fires, so we pretty

404
00:34:53,860 --> 00:34:59,980
much made up of mind that we would like to age out and spend a lot of money.

405
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:06,540
Years in Aspen. This has always been a happy place. We always felt the safest here.

406
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:31,860
You know, we love the community. We love the Aspen Institute. We love going to the theater here. I mean, it's just a wonderful environment. So we spent about four years, about four years ago, we started on the design of this house. I didn't think that'd be this kind of, you know,

407
00:35:31,980 --> 00:35:35,160
I wish back on it because the first one went pretty smoothly.

408
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,480
The very exact same house, I mean exact or very similar.

409
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:46,360
I understand things change and I

410
00:35:50,590 --> 00:35:52,310
just, you know,

411
00:35:52,950 --> 00:36:00,990
I recognize the important of having an elevator mouse,

412
00:36:00,990 --> 00:36:08,010
My wife broke her foot last year, and it was really challenging to get up and down the stairs.

413
00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:11,070
And I'm 73 years old.

414
00:36:11,330 --> 00:36:15,090
I mean if I'm lucky, maybe I get the same belt when I'm 76.

415
00:36:17,170 --> 00:36:19,570
Maybe I can enjoy it a few years at home.

416
00:36:20,510 --> 00:36:23,910
I'm really trying to build a generational house on my kids,

417
00:36:24,450 --> 00:36:28,190
that they will have their kids here, and they'll have the same experiences they've had.

418
00:36:28,690 --> 00:36:31,730
skiing, hiking and biking.

419
00:36:34,370 --> 00:36:41,110
So yes, Chris and Louise came to me and said, if you want to get back into this room,

420
00:36:41,310 --> 00:36:43,230
we need to make these changes.

421
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:51,150
Even though it was a big part of the remodel to me, he was having a nice deck in the back of

422
00:36:51,150 --> 00:36:56,190
our master bedroom, we could have coffee in the morning and look at the mountains and

423
00:36:56,190 --> 00:37:05,490
Work out at the night and look at the stars. I guess if that's the sacrifice we'd have to make amongst others to get the process going

424
00:37:07,990 --> 00:37:15,090
We'll read it to make it so I'm hoping the changes you may be your expectations

425
00:37:17,010 --> 00:37:19,310
Okay, thank you Barry

426
00:37:20,530 --> 00:37:26,610
So here's where we finished my version of where we finished last time

427
00:37:26,610 --> 00:37:36,770
Both Ken and Marianne were satisfied with the project maybe for different reasons, but we're okay with the design.

428
00:37:38,530 --> 00:37:47,130
We've made some changes since then, but those changes further reduce the overage on Fleur area on deck area.

429
00:37:47,950 --> 00:37:53,630
And are based on feedback that we heard both here in the P&Z and we heard from our neighbor, Mr. Star.

430
00:37:53,630 --> 00:38:00,730
So we hope your position remains the same on the revised plan.

431
00:38:03,130 --> 00:38:08,290
Eric and Teresa were not in favor of the design that was presented August 5th.

432
00:38:09,110 --> 00:38:10,610
Maybe also for different reasons.

433
00:38:13,090 --> 00:38:14,710
We'd love you to join the Yes team.

434
00:38:14,970 --> 00:38:16,270
It's really wonderful over here.

435
00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:26,430
If your position is changing, or if it's changed, we have made some changes that I think

436
00:38:27,330 --> 00:38:33,350
are further toward where your position was in our last meeting.

437
00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:40,390
Max was not in favor of the application, I think there was multiple reasons, but there was

438
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:47,710
concern that we heard about us increasing the level of non-conformity. I want to make sure

439
00:38:47,710 --> 00:38:53,530
that Max understands that we're actually reducing the non-conformities. We're not completely

440
00:38:53,530 --> 00:38:57,910
eliminating it, and then maybe that was part of your issue. But to the extent that we have

441
00:38:57,910 --> 00:39:06,350
non-conforming aspects of the property, those aspects are being reduced. So again, hopefully that

442
00:39:06,350 --> 00:39:08,990
helps understand if it doesn't.

443
00:39:09,130 --> 00:39:11,690
Tom was close, but not there.

444
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:14,750
He was maybe among other things,

445
00:39:15,090 --> 00:39:17,210
concerned about the extent of deck area

446
00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:20,110
and asked us to take a hard look at that.

447
00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:23,210
We took that to heart, had our conversation

448
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:29,130
that we need to have with very, and those second-floor decks

449
00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:30,710
are entirely eliminated.

450
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:36,830
And Liz, you had mentioned the extent of deck reduction.

451
00:39:37,090 --> 00:39:40,230
I think it was 300, something to be 28.

452
00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:46,610
Free 28, spare feet of deck that's reduced off of the plant.

453
00:39:48,770 --> 00:39:51,890
Diana abstained, and she's not here tonight.

454
00:39:52,890 --> 00:39:57,070
So it would be amazing if she were, and we're in support, but she is not here.

455
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,960
and Charlie was

456
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:08,680
We're not here. And I hope that Mr. Tarve, you see that we have made some – we're making modest changes

457
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,760
to what is a non-conforming structure. Town is full of non-conforming structures.

458
00:40:16,780 --> 00:40:18,980
We have lessened those

459
00:40:18,980 --> 00:40:27,060
non-conformities from our conversation in August. We responded to the P&Z as best we could,

460
00:40:27,060 --> 00:40:29,320
from the feedback we got.

461
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,360
We also met with Mr. Star and have addressed his concerns.

462
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,000
And the Good Thunder condos was not against the project,

463
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,460
but they had those two concerns that they identified.

464
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,480
And again, Mr. Star and the Good Thunder

465
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,900
are now in full support of the application.

466
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,060
So I hope you recognize that our ability to walk back in here

467
00:40:53,060 --> 00:40:55,660
with an amended plan that was possible the neighbor

468
00:40:55,660 --> 00:41:01,220
and that PNZV does is both important to us and important to other members of the commission.

469
00:41:02,780 --> 00:41:04,540
And with that, I'd be happy to answer questions.

470
00:41:07,620 --> 00:41:08,240
Thanks, Chris.

471
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:12,700
Commissioners, do you have questions for Chris or Luis or Barry?

472
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:17,190
Sure, I have one.

473
00:41:17,290 --> 00:41:25,430
In regards with your conversation with John the neighbor, do you have documentation

474
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:30,450
and writing signed on both parties behalf.

475
00:41:31,050 --> 00:41:36,530
I do not. Mr. Shaw was under the assumption that we were meeting on the 10th, and I'm

476
00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:40,730
not sure where I got that number because I'm pretty clear with him when I met.

477
00:41:41,110 --> 00:41:42,490
And he actually says it could be on the 10th.

478
00:41:42,770 --> 00:41:44,890
So I just like what we'll have an email exchange.

479
00:41:46,110 --> 00:41:49,790
So email is went and text went and calls went and I called him.

480
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:53,410
Luckily picked up because he was in an event with his daughter.

481
00:41:53,410 --> 00:42:05,650
I can tell you that my relationship with Mr. Star has always been that he's a man who says

482
00:42:05,650 --> 00:42:10,810
what he does what he says and says what he means what he says.

483
00:42:11,930 --> 00:42:15,570
So I've full trust that John is going to back that up.

484
00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:21,750
I was clear with him that what we could get to before this meeting would be an agreement

485
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:22,750
in concept.

486
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:28,530
Right, we'll get this area, it'll be an easement, you'll get this other area, it'll be an easement.

487
00:42:28,610 --> 00:42:33,270
We'll work through the lawyer and he's a lawyer, he understands that.

488
00:42:33,630 --> 00:42:40,870
So, Bart and Mr. Star will follow up with actually favoring that, but I can tell you a hundred percent that he is in favor.

489
00:42:42,070 --> 00:42:48,770
He is the president of the H.O.A. at the good tender, full trust in faith that he represents their position.

490
00:42:50,490 --> 00:42:55,670
And if that needs to be a condition, we don't have any issue with making that a condition

491
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:57,350
of a criminal because it will happen.

492
00:42:57,870 --> 00:43:03,110
Okay, and I appreciate your due diligence and that matter and thanks for all your updates.

493
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:05,410
I don't have further questions at this time.

494
00:43:06,090 --> 00:43:06,750
Thanks, Miriam.

495
00:43:07,770 --> 00:43:08,770
Tell him I saw it.

496
00:43:09,530 --> 00:43:10,210
Ask the questions.

497
00:43:14,330 --> 00:43:14,810
Sure.

498
00:43:14,810 --> 00:43:22,090
to report that the adjusted square footage is $3,994 is at that.

499
00:43:22,090 --> 00:43:22,470
That's correct.

500
00:43:24,090 --> 00:43:33,190
And could you remind us what the square footage for a duplex on that size a lot in that district is?

501
00:43:33,250 --> 00:43:39,630
Because it's a sub-standard size lot for a duplex, the allowable is $3,240.

502
00:43:39,950 --> 00:43:40,870
$3,240.

503
00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:44,600
That's all I have.

504
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:45,660
Thanks, Tom.

505
00:43:46,740 --> 00:43:54,520
anyone else have questions? Charlie, please pull your microphone down. Thank you.

506
00:44:05,470 --> 00:44:06,710
What's wrong?

507
00:44:07,850 --> 00:44:08,390
Deemizing.

508
00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:14,670
That's the wall that connects two units that is a shared wall.

509
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:16,990
It's a demizing wall.

510
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:31,800
The city's code requires a duplex to have a demizing wall of a certain dimension.

511
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:37,620
So now for in order to be executed, you can actually take it right away.

512
00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:47,080
So I'm going to go to yours.

513
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:50,740
You're supposed to be supposed to be able to leave you.

514
00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:54,040
Okay.

515
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,880
Why didn't you really enjoy it?

516
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:57,580
Yeah.

517
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:59,460
Good to see you down.

518
00:45:00,910 --> 00:45:08,410
Can you comment a little bit of that to be bridged? And that is an indicator for what you want to do to bring the way it's up to me.

519
00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:19,410
The so that the bridge and the elevator only connect 1-21. The units are right now, they're a side by side, and they become an over under.

520
00:45:19,410 --> 00:45:27,650
And the 123 unit, the one on the left-hand side, looking from the street, is a single floor flat.

521
00:45:28,510 --> 00:45:33,090
And it does not have access to the elevator and does not have access to the bridge.

522
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:41,470
And so if it is severed off and sold as a separate property or buried continues to rent it off as a separate unit,

523
00:45:42,070 --> 00:45:46,130
It's completely stand alone has nothing to do with the 121 unit.

524
00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:47,610
They're not connected internally.

525
00:45:48,170 --> 00:45:51,930
They don't only the 121 unit has the elevator.

526
00:46:19,230 --> 00:46:25,830
I think that you could, you wanted this place, so you said we bought 20,000.

527
00:46:25,950 --> 00:46:26,330
Correct.

528
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:28,090
Is that all?

529
00:46:29,890 --> 00:46:30,710
That's 20,000.

530
00:46:31,110 --> 00:46:32,470
Could be sold.

531
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:35,570
They'd better think I can do it today.

532
00:46:36,990 --> 00:46:37,130
Yeah.

533
00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:38,570
Thank you.

534
00:46:38,910 --> 00:46:39,110
Yeah.

535
00:46:39,290 --> 00:46:39,990
The separate entrance.

536
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:41,130
Separate groin.

537
00:46:42,310 --> 00:46:42,450
The separate entrance.

538
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:48,790
Any further questions for our applicant, Dean?

539
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,960
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to come.

540
00:47:38,570 --> 00:47:42,630
All right. Again, Jeffrey Barnhill, city planner for the city of Aspen.

541
00:47:44,670 --> 00:47:48,870
I did not really change much about the staff slides.

542
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:57,530
I really just wanted to pull back up the review criteria and I updated those photos but I

543
00:47:57,530 --> 00:48:03,970
think Chris did a adequate job of going through those sheet-by-sheet so I will skip ahead

544
00:48:03,970 --> 00:48:13,510
of bits. Again for a special review there are some dimensional requirements. Staff found

545
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:22,630
those were met for this project. However, when you go to the replacement of non-conforming

546
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:26,870
structures, standards, staff did not feel that there was special characteristics. You

547
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:33,170
need to the property. Nor that literal enforcement of the dimensional provisions would cause

548
00:48:33,170 --> 00:48:35,190
a necessary hardship upon the owner.

549
00:48:37,370 --> 00:48:41,950
And it's important to note whatever sort of easement agreement

550
00:48:41,950 --> 00:48:44,290
they come to should not be considered for this.

551
00:48:44,490 --> 00:48:45,430
It's not part of the criteria.

552
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:47,850
It's something that's great that they're good neighbors,

553
00:48:48,110 --> 00:48:50,810
but it's not really something that the planning

554
00:48:50,810 --> 00:48:52,430
is on in commission should consider

555
00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:54,830
in approving or denying this project.

556
00:48:55,850 --> 00:48:59,370
And additionally, staff's position on a project

557
00:48:59,370 --> 00:49:01,610
has nothing to do with the community members

558
00:49:01,610 --> 00:49:03,510
that might own that project or anything.

559
00:49:04,130 --> 00:49:05,810
We just review it by the criteria.

560
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:07,610
We have a lot of great community members,

561
00:49:08,510 --> 00:49:11,470
and unfortunately sometimes we just don't agree

562
00:49:11,470 --> 00:49:20,510
with the project. With that staff recommends denial of the project, I can put back up these review

563
00:49:20,510 --> 00:49:24,610
criteria if you guys would like. Happen the answer any questions and thanks so much.

564
00:49:25,930 --> 00:49:29,410
Thanks Jeff. I have a question. Yeah.

565
00:49:30,350 --> 00:49:35,710
In your revised packet, you have a proposed first floor plan that shows a much smaller

566
00:49:36,530 --> 00:49:36,990
connection.

567
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:42,630
But it's not in the four points that was included in the packet and it's not in the

568
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:46,370
four points that we got reviewed that we've received later and it's not in the original

569
00:49:46,370 --> 00:49:50,630
four points. Where'd it come from? So that is in the packet.

570
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:54,930
There's pulled out for you guys.

571
00:49:56,590 --> 00:49:59,730
Let's go there. Let's plan that.

572
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,880
That makes it a real review plan, right?

573
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,840
It's got a lot of great emails.

574
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,280
It's not informing.

575
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:13,060
Special review.

576
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,240
Just depends on this.

577
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:20,660
I'm just blind.

578
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,520
Because I'm like, I looked and I couldn't find it.

579
00:50:24,860 --> 00:50:28,380
So this is what happened and kind of what I alluded to earlier.

580
00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:44,080
So this was included as exhibit a second reading drawings and these were the drawings that I initially got and I did not realize that these were changing I thought I was just getting the floor area sheets and that was it

581
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:52,620
So I did not realize that these were also changing which is why we had to send you guys those updated that updated drawing packet yesterday

582
00:50:52,620 --> 00:50:58,580
And just to reinforce, that's on us as the applicant, applicant team, that's not on Jeff.

583
00:50:59,340 --> 00:51:05,660
We had sent this prior to going through the full calculations that Mary Ann will be learning about.

584
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,620
And then realized we got a calculation oopsie.

585
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,040
And then so further revised and sent Jeff a revised packet.

586
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,240
So that's really on us.

587
00:51:18,820 --> 00:51:22,340
And that's why we spent the additional time the beginning of the hearing kind of going through

588
00:51:22,340 --> 00:51:25,380
I'm getting everyone situated with the current trunks.

589
00:51:26,140 --> 00:51:28,440
Okay, got it, thank you.

590
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:29,880
Thanks for your honesty.

591
00:51:30,780 --> 00:51:31,380
All right.

592
00:51:32,820 --> 00:51:38,060
Commissioners, do you have questions for Mr. Barnhill of the gentleman of Aspen?

593
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,720
The victorious gentleman of Aspen.

594
00:51:43,740 --> 00:51:44,880
Great pick in the paper.

595
00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:47,500
No, they got a good one in there for sure.

596
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:50,680
Questions?

597
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,580
Nothing's really changed in the 60s decision on this.

598
00:51:56,020 --> 00:51:56,460
Correct.

599
00:52:00,460 --> 00:52:02,460
Charlie, I see it.

600
00:52:23,810 --> 00:52:24,170
Red light.

601
00:52:24,570 --> 00:52:26,990
Oh, we're getting it.

602
00:52:30,850 --> 00:52:31,490
It's confusing.

603
00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:33,690
We need to call something a reduction of square footage.

604
00:52:34,170 --> 00:52:37,950
It's reduction in the, it's a recalculation of the square footage, which shows

605
00:52:37,950 --> 00:52:38,510
the reduction.

606
00:52:39,590 --> 00:52:41,170
Can we somehow turn it more like that?

607
00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:44,090
The, so if a building is actually making something smaller,

608
00:52:44,250 --> 00:52:45,950
that's reduction of square footage.

609
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:51,730
This, can we call the recalculation resulting in reduction of square-fledging?

610
00:52:53,330 --> 00:52:55,010
I think we can accommodate that.

611
00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:55,650
Thank you.

612
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:07,460
Okay.

613
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,550
Any other questions for our staff?

614
00:53:15,770 --> 00:53:15,910
Okay.

615
00:53:16,570 --> 00:53:17,030
Thank you so much.

616
00:53:19,290 --> 00:53:22,430
Can I ask you to leave this up for us?

617
00:53:22,510 --> 00:53:26,130
I'm going to open it to public comment, but I think it's helpful to have our review criteria.

618
00:53:27,130 --> 00:53:33,590
Okay, are there any members of the public who would like to make a comment on this item?

619
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:35,770
I guess none.

620
00:53:37,370 --> 00:53:37,550
Okay.

621
00:53:38,350 --> 00:53:44,370
With that, I'm going to end the fact finding portion of tonight's hearing, and we're going to go into

622
00:53:44,370 --> 00:53:46,170
discussion between commissioners.

623
00:53:47,090 --> 00:53:53,850
I would caution commissioners that we make our comments based on our review criteria,

624
00:53:53,850 --> 00:54:00,050
and whether or not the project as redesigned meets the review criteria.

625
00:54:01,630 --> 00:54:06,190
So, that'll open it up to whoever has comments or thoughts.

626
00:54:10,050 --> 00:54:13,990
Eric, pickin' on you first because I got yelled at for picking on the mask.

627
00:54:16,130 --> 00:54:17,390
Well, I appreciate the reduction.

628
00:54:18,410 --> 00:54:23,410
I still don't think it's enough to approve the project.

629
00:54:25,330 --> 00:54:29,430
Okay, can thoughts?

630
00:54:30,590 --> 00:54:31,630
Well,

631
00:54:34,650 --> 00:54:46,930
I continue to think this whole issue of non-conforities and special review is incredibly

632
00:54:46,930 --> 00:54:54,470
difficult, because the code is both ambiguous and seemingly inconsistent,

633
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:59,390
and particularly

634
00:54:59,390 --> 00:54:59,950
given the f-

635
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:11,500
In fact, that, Marianne and I seem to have a minor review at the last meeting, and I respect everybody else's views greatly.

636
00:55:12,700 --> 00:55:27,600
And so I wanted the reconsider, where I was, in light of, for the review, I actually went back in in a very painful exercise, listening to the audio of our August 5th.

637
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,440
you have gotten for a person's punishment. Good job.

638
00:55:31,820 --> 00:55:34,200
Well, I mean, I didn't take this thing seriously.

639
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:35,620
I appreciate that.

640
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:42,980
I wanted to make sure that I understood everybody else's viewpoints and see if I should

641
00:55:42,980 --> 00:55:46,520
reconsider mine and light of what you all said.

642
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:54,940
And having gone through all that, I didn't continue to have the same view I had before,

643
00:55:54,940 --> 00:56:08,420
which is that this project ought to be approved if we're up to me as I view the requirements of the code.

644
00:56:09,140 --> 00:56:17,450
And I start with the notion that recognizing the ambiguities and inconsistencies.

645
00:56:17,930 --> 00:56:24,110
What is the overall intent of the land you've coded with regard to non-conforming structures?

646
00:56:24,110 --> 00:56:28,350
It seems to me that there are a couple of

647
00:56:33,310 --> 00:56:42,050
principal, foundational policies that are set out explicitly at the beginning of the code,

648
00:56:42,490 --> 00:56:51,990
and it's the intent to permit non-conformities to continue, but not allow non-conformities to be enlarged or expanded.

649
00:56:51,990 --> 00:57:04,950
And non-conformities can be altered so that they don't change or decrease the non-conformity.

650
00:57:06,190 --> 00:57:16,670
And I don't see that this project, I see that this proposed project meets these general criteria.

651
00:57:16,670 --> 00:57:26,250
investors, something else in the code that would say, these criteria are overcome, then based

652
00:57:26,250 --> 00:57:30,670
on those criteria, I would, as I say, approve the project.

653
00:57:31,790 --> 00:57:39,290
But one issue that gave me a great deal of, not trouble, but I wanted to go back and look

654
00:57:39,290 --> 00:57:51,050
that it pretty seriously was to racist view that the word change meant that you couldn't

655
00:57:51,050 --> 00:57:58,230
move square footage around within a project because if you did that then you would definitely

656
00:57:58,230 --> 00:58:10,270
fall within the special review criteria and I think that's a reasonable

657
00:58:10,270 --> 00:58:21,330
reading of the statute. As I thought about it, I think that there's a more reasonable view.

658
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:29,650
And that is that the word change, you have to look at it in terms of all the overall criteria.

659
00:58:29,790 --> 00:58:37,050
But it says a non-conforming structure shall not be extended by an enlargement or expansion that increases

660
00:58:37,050 --> 00:58:42,210
the non-conformity, and here's where the critical language comes in, a non-conforming

661
00:58:42,210 --> 00:58:49,370
structure may be extended or altered in a matter that does not change or that decreases

662
00:58:49,370 --> 00:58:50,350
the non-informed.

663
00:58:53,030 --> 00:59:00,070
And when you look, I mean what is the word change me and in this context, and it seems to

664
00:59:00,070 --> 00:59:02,370
That a more

665
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:13,340
reasonable view is that change means you can't change the non-conformity.

666
00:59:13,980 --> 00:59:20,560
So if the non-conformity is in four areas, it means that in ordering the building, you can't

667
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,640
create, for example, a setback, non-conformity.

668
00:59:24,700 --> 00:59:26,900
You can't change the non-conformity.

669
00:59:26,900 --> 00:59:30,960
And when what

670
00:59:35,410 --> 00:59:40,270
is the non-conformity with regard that we're concerned with here, it's for area.

671
00:59:42,210 --> 00:59:46,270
And the non-conformity is the total for area.

672
00:59:46,790 --> 00:59:57,610
The non-conformity is not the manner in which the for area is configured, so long as you meet the total for area criteria.

673
00:59:58,690 --> 00:59:59,950
So I see it.

674
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,980
And to have a different view, which seems to me would create some real problems for folks that are trying to design these projects, because, for example, if you have a entry call, and they move a wall a few feet, that technically would change the configuration of four areas.

675
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:41,720
But they'd move another wall that would result in there being no additional flurry towards the requirement.

676
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,120
That, I mean, why is that a big problem? I don't see that it is.

677
01:00:50,220 --> 01:00:57,470
So I think we ought to encourage flexibility to the extent that we can within the code.

678
01:00:57,470 --> 01:01:05,250
And we had, I know what we said in the last meeting that architects have not

679
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:09,790
construed

680
01:01:09,790 --> 01:01:16,930
this language to say that if you change the configuration of the four area, that is problematic.

681
01:01:17,710 --> 01:01:25,890
I don't know whether that's true or not, but I do know that the city, apparently, doesn't,

682
01:01:25,890 --> 01:01:34,190
But it doesn't seem to follow your review because when they go through the review criteria in

683
01:01:35,350 --> 01:01:44,230
their exhibit to the package they put together with regard to this specific language about

684
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:51,310
change in a non-conformity, staff finds that this project meets the criteria.

685
01:01:52,910 --> 01:02:01,110
So, putting all that together, my view is that there's no reason for special review unless

686
01:02:01,110 --> 01:02:07,510
the language on purposeful destruction requires that there'll be a special review.

687
01:02:08,270 --> 01:02:11,830
So, think we're talking about, in my opinion, like, your interchangeings special review

688
01:02:11,830 --> 01:02:16,630
are not conformity to me, and I think I'm a little, because they're recommending denial,

689
01:02:16,990 --> 01:02:17,670
but not.

690
01:02:17,870 --> 01:02:20,150
They're not recommending denial for the reasons.

691
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:28,290
What I'm saying is they're recommending denial because they don't see that special that the special review review criteria are met

692
01:02:28,590 --> 01:02:32,150
I'm saying got it have to get the special review

693
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:38,490
Understood because it's not required under the code and so I think we went through this

694
01:02:39,230 --> 01:02:42,970
Previously and talked about special review with legal of our job

695
01:02:44,110 --> 01:02:45,630
Is to review

696
01:02:46,150 --> 01:02:49,130
The project against the code sections that were given

697
01:02:49,130 --> 01:02:55,110
And this is not a forum to discuss whether or not the project meets special reviewer doesn't.

698
01:02:55,390 --> 01:03:00,590
Like that part we've already been told by city it does, and that's our job is then to say,

699
01:03:00,630 --> 01:03:04,350
okay, meets special review requirements, now we look at the non-conformities.

700
01:03:04,690 --> 01:03:11,390
And if you recall during our discussion last time, it was Jim's view that it was extra jurisdictional

701
01:03:11,390 --> 01:03:21,530
for us to decide the issue of whether special review is required, although when this issue

702
01:03:21,530 --> 01:03:26,910
came up in conjunction with another project, the years ago, Kate took a different view of it.

703
01:03:27,930 --> 01:03:34,170
And what I expressed at the time was that I don't think that staff can constrain on reviewing

704
01:03:34,170 --> 01:03:34,990
that way.

705
01:03:35,310 --> 01:03:41,170
By telling us, we want you to review this project under this provision on the land use code.

706
01:03:41,930 --> 01:03:50,010
If we think it should be approved and we want to reject it under that, but we think that there's a different provision that applies,

707
01:03:51,270 --> 01:03:52,610
that we could approve it under.

708
01:03:53,410 --> 01:04:00,430
That seems to be that it totally constrains our view of our ability to do our job.

709
01:04:01,170 --> 01:04:08,190
But setting that aside and assuming that a special review is required here,

710
01:04:08,190 --> 01:04:13,190
You know, there are two criteria, one that are in dispute.

711
01:04:14,130 --> 01:04:22,130
One is whether there are special circumstances with regard to this property that are unique.

712
01:04:22,590 --> 01:04:25,730
And the second is whether there's under your hardship.

713
01:04:26,890 --> 01:04:33,710
And the one that, if assuming that we have to have a special review, the one that troubles me the most is the unique circumstances.

714
01:04:34,610 --> 01:04:36,650
because of the special circumstance.

715
01:04:36,890 --> 01:04:39,790
Jeff, can you go to that sign that you had?

716
01:04:40,170 --> 01:04:40,770
Thank you.

717
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:44,310
Let me see, I've got to hear this.

718
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:49,550
Whether there exists special circumstances,

719
01:04:50,450 --> 01:04:51,790
characteristics, unique to the property,

720
01:04:52,030 --> 01:04:54,990
which differentiates the property from other properties located

721
01:04:54,990 --> 01:04:56,590
in the same zone district.

722
01:05:01,230 --> 01:05:06,110
That's the most troublesome aspect of the special review today.

723
01:05:07,830 --> 01:05:17,910
The way, and I don't think that Chris really addressed it in his written presentation as the what, the special characteristics of this property are.

724
01:05:17,910 --> 01:05:34,450
The way I see it is that if we were to literally constru the code and the applicant wanted

725
01:05:34,450 --> 01:05:45,070
to basically tear down the property, start from scratch, which might be the best approach

726
01:05:45,070 --> 01:05:46,830
And it's up to them.

727
01:05:48,410 --> 01:05:51,750
This property would be incredibly narrow.

728
01:05:53,330 --> 01:05:55,630
And I'm not sure it's really doable.

729
01:05:55,950 --> 01:05:57,750
It'd be basically a shotgun house.

730
01:05:57,870 --> 01:06:03,210
So if the applicant decided to tear down this house

731
01:06:03,970 --> 01:06:06,750
and build something new, it is my understanding

732
01:06:06,750 --> 01:06:09,610
that because it's a lot that is not adequately

733
01:06:09,610 --> 01:06:11,750
sized to allow a duplex, they would only

734
01:06:11,750 --> 01:06:13,650
be allowed to build the single family home

735
01:06:13,650 --> 01:06:16,290
to the max floor area of 32.40.

736
01:06:17,310 --> 01:06:21,830
It would be, yeah, but the given, the way it's,

737
01:06:21,830 --> 01:06:23,850
it's a 6,000 square foot, correct?

738
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:25,350
It's pretty, pretty, no.

739
01:06:25,610 --> 01:06:26,710
It's really narrow.

740
01:06:27,350 --> 01:06:30,070
So I think it's narrowness of the law

741
01:06:30,070 --> 01:06:32,230
that creates the special circumstance.

742
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:34,010
Is that a closed question?

743
01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:36,350
Got it.

744
01:06:36,910 --> 01:06:40,170
As to the issue of a one-do hardship,

745
01:06:40,950 --> 01:06:54,850
I think that staff's position, as I've expressed before, on the issue of undue hardship, is unrealistic, essentially, they're saying that if a property has been used in the past,

746
01:06:56,950 --> 01:07:00,790
and that use can continue into the future.

747
01:07:00,790 --> 01:07:02,350
So, by definition,

748
01:07:07,210 --> 01:07:15,610
an applicant wouldn't be deprived of reasonable use of the property.

749
01:07:16,410 --> 01:07:27,410
So, it means that it's hard for me to envision a circumstance under which somebody could pass special with you.

750
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:38,670
If you have a house, you've been living on the house for 20 years, and you could still have the house in the future.

751
01:07:40,690 --> 01:07:45,330
By telling you, you can't make any changes to the house. You're not being the private of reasonable use.

752
01:07:45,330 --> 01:08:01,510
So I think that's a problem, but beyond that, specifically in this case, I think that the way I would look at reasonable use of the property is in relation to what others in the neighborhood can do.

753
01:08:03,470 --> 01:08:12,030
And other people in the neighborhood can make reasonable alterations to their property.

754
01:08:12,330 --> 01:08:16,630
They can renovate their properties, put it in a little bit if they want to see something like that.

755
01:08:16,650 --> 01:08:17,750
So could he?

756
01:08:18,150 --> 01:08:18,830
So these are worse.

757
01:08:18,850 --> 01:08:20,890
Well, this is the way they want to do it.

758
01:08:22,690 --> 01:08:28,250
And again, I get back to the fact that I hate this whole special review process.

759
01:08:32,270 --> 01:08:37,970
Yeah, I've got it in a kind of plastic vision of it all, but

760
01:08:37,970 --> 01:08:39,670
You start the new world.

761
01:08:40,710 --> 01:08:45,730
The way that code reads, we're left with incredible discretion about what we want to

762
01:08:45,730 --> 01:08:47,590
approve and what we don't.

763
01:08:48,210 --> 01:08:56,630
And we've approved some projects on special review that are far more radical in design and

764
01:08:56,630 --> 01:09:08,200
in square footage, then this one, and I just don't think that this is that big a deal that

765
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:20,180
we want to try to literally enforce the terms of a very weekly drone, I've been, I've talked

766
01:09:20,180 --> 01:09:25,120
a long time, I'm going to shut up, but I've put a little work into it, so.

767
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:26,680
I appreciate that.

768
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:30,120
Tom thoughts?

769
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:38,160
I would like to defer because my thoughts might not matter until we hear from Charlie.

770
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:40,160
Okay.

771
01:09:41,180 --> 01:09:41,260
Charlie.

772
01:09:43,260 --> 01:09:44,600
A read on.

773
01:09:49,620 --> 01:09:56,580
The boat last time went in a particular direction with a particular number and you were here.

774
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:31,880
Can you use your microphone, please? Okay. Marianne? Okay. That's what you want. That's what I want to hear. Yeah, I mean, I would still reflect my former thoughts, not a substantial amount as adjusted, but they did clearly, you know, the applicant clearly has taken into account.

775
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:41,060
to affect the neighbors' ideas and thoughts which I understand the city's stance of that

776
01:10:41,060 --> 01:10:47,580
doesn't quite matter what I've understood from the city's stance, however, I think

777
01:10:47,580 --> 01:10:52,880
that the side balcony would have been a little bit problematic and now that's obviously

778
01:10:52,880 --> 01:11:04,360
adjusted to reflect, you know, a more private entity for both properties in terms of the

779
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:11,400
requirements, you know, to accept or deny, you know, the city still does believe that the

780
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:19,980
dimensional requirements have been met in regards to the non-conformities and the definition

781
01:11:19,980 --> 01:11:29,820
of such, you know, it still does seem to reflect the notion that, you know, as long

782
01:11:29,820 --> 01:11:37,000
as it's, if it's in existence, which it's been for many decades, you know, and there's

783
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:49,700
reduction in some of the sizing, it essentially does run with that part of that definition

784
01:11:49,700 --> 01:11:58,200
in the code and so I'm still in alignment with my former thoughts and I highly appreciate

785
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:05,540
Ken's due diligence and time and effort that he's taken and I think that was really useful

786
01:12:05,540 --> 01:12:06,720
for tonight's meeting.

787
01:12:09,090 --> 01:12:09,310
Max?

788
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:21,700
Yeah, I mean, I appreciate the effort made by our architect and re-arranging some items here.

789
01:12:22,100 --> 01:12:26,660
I certainly appreciate Ken's opinion on how he thinks about special review and what's coming

790
01:12:26,660 --> 01:12:28,240
to us and what's not.

791
01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:35,060
I am very much looking forward to city staff having a more direct route and saying yes

792
01:12:35,060 --> 01:12:36,340
or no to some of these things.

793
01:12:37,420 --> 01:12:44,440
But I believe, you know, these are the things we have to look at and have to decide on when they come to us.

794
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:50,100
And whether they come to us in the future is how they come to us in the future is different.

795
01:12:51,780 --> 01:12:56,340
Until then, this is, you know, these are the criteria and this is what we have to make our judgments on.

796
01:12:57,780 --> 01:12:59,340
You know, and they're still not meeting all four.

797
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,340
So that's how I feel about the project at the moment.

798
01:13:04,140 --> 01:13:05,300
And those are my thoughts on it.

799
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:08,110
Thanks, Max.

800
01:13:10,210 --> 01:13:10,430
Charlie.

801
01:13:14,420 --> 01:13:14,660
No, no.

802
01:13:14,740 --> 01:13:17,540
If we could go that way, it would mean, you know, I would alarm all the time.

803
01:13:20,340 --> 01:13:20,560
Okay.

804
01:13:21,180 --> 01:13:21,440
Tom?

805
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:22,260
Yes, sir.

806
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:32,400
So, when we were presented with a request for a fair variation, I kind of distinguished

807
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:34,560
what's necessary.

808
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:39,500
So, no versus old had different criteria and strictness.

809
01:13:40,140 --> 01:13:43,240
And what's structural versus what's ornamental.

810
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:56,540
What modification requests would be reasonable, for example, having to alter a foundation would not be reasonable for most owners to be cost prohibitive?

811
01:13:58,300 --> 01:14:11,160
And sometimes even modest additions to square footage can help meet city standards as in this project, adding a hallway between 1.21 and 1.23 to close the gap between buildings, which is now mandated

812
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:20,140
for due plexus, but the factor means that this project, even after these revisions, would still

813
01:14:20,140 --> 01:14:31,280
be about 700 feet over square foot allowed for that lot in that neighborhood, which is problematic.

814
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:37,860
So in my view, the rooftop decks are not structurally necessary. You've eliminated one, so

815
01:14:37,860 --> 01:14:44,860
mechanical only. There is still a second deck with a recreational component to it.

816
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:52,200
I'm not opposed to the applicant keeping the LA face and gags on the second floor.

817
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:58,980
But I don't support the application in its current form because of the recreational aspect potential.

818
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:23,620
For the rooftop deck. I think the rooftop in that neighborhood, because of the square footage, overage, is less than fully compliant with the context that I think should apply there.

819
01:15:23,620 --> 01:15:34,060
So, I would not support the application as long as there is a recreational deck on top

820
01:15:34,060 --> 01:15:37,560
that we're utilitarian only, I could support it.

821
01:15:39,980 --> 01:15:40,700
Thanks, Tom.

822
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:43,600
You want to hear mine, too?

823
01:15:50,180 --> 01:15:53,400
The lot is a normal size lot for the West End.

824
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:59,020
It's the same dimension as a residential lot in the West End 60 by 100 standard button.

825
01:15:59,020 --> 01:16:05,260
can build a perfectly fine house on a 6,500 square foot lot. To me, it is not too narrow,

826
01:16:05,500 --> 01:16:12,120
it is not a shotgun. It does not create a shotgun house. I think there are ample opportunities

827
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:19,740
within the existing residences that do doplexes that are there to remodel and get

828
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:24,060
two units that are

829
01:16:24,060 --> 01:16:29,980
not one living in the 80s and one living in the 2020s. I think while I understand the clients

830
01:16:29,980 --> 01:16:38,300
desire to change the configuration to me that is a desire. If that is what they want to

831
01:16:38,300 --> 01:16:46,980
do my understanding or my how I interpret the code is that's great bring everything

832
01:16:46,980 --> 01:16:53,600
else into compliance. Meet floor area, meet everything. It's a choice to do this. This is

833
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:58,000
not we're forcing you to do that. You're choosing to change from a side by side to an

834
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:05,440
under. I wholeheartedly support it as long as you bring everything else into compliance. So

835
01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:11,680
to me, the changes while I commend them and I think they're going a long way towards it,

836
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:18,740
they're not there yet for me. I don't believe that literal enforcement puts on do

837
01:17:18,740 --> 01:17:24,800
unnecessary hardship on the client. It's a property that they knew had these

838
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:29,060
Now conformaries when they purchased it, I am assuming, because there is a smart man and

839
01:17:29,060 --> 01:17:34,760
he's got lawyers and new diligence and all of that, and you can ask for whatever you

840
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,460
want, but I don't think you got there yet.

841
01:17:38,940 --> 01:17:43,710
So I'm not ready to support it.

842
01:17:55,730 --> 01:18:03,870
Is Teresa, I'm maybe confused about this, but the size of the lot is 60.

843
01:18:03,870 --> 01:18:07,130
6,000 square feet, it's a 60 by 100.

844
01:18:08,130 --> 01:18:10,130
So, and that is up a lot.

845
01:18:10,490 --> 01:18:13,010
60 feet wide, 100 feet.

846
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:16,150
Both properties are just for one.

847
01:18:17,150 --> 01:18:20,210
So, it's one lot that houses a duplex.

848
01:18:20,550 --> 01:18:21,450
Okay, so.

849
01:18:21,550 --> 01:18:27,910
And a duplex in the zone district, and Jeff, please jump in if I'm wrong, requires a larger

850
01:18:27,910 --> 01:18:37,170
a lot. So it is a non-conforming lot size to allow a duplex as of today. Okay. So if they were

851
01:18:37,170 --> 01:18:41,150
to demo it, they would never be able to put back a duplex. They would have to put back

852
01:18:41,150 --> 01:18:56,280
a single family home. Good. Well assuming that one side of the duplex were demoed. That gets

853
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:01,260
into your probably meeting demolition at more than 40 percent and that's a whole different

854
01:19:01,260 --> 01:19:03,720
conversation. But they're two separate properties.

855
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,880
They are considered one building for the purposes of demo

856
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:07,440
correct.

857
01:19:09,790 --> 01:19:11,530
And I could be totally wrong on that.

858
01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:16,010
But there's a couple different ways that it can happen.

859
01:19:16,330 --> 01:19:18,810
But essentially, one half of the due place could get a

860
01:19:18,810 --> 01:19:23,110
demolition element. And also the entire structure could, like the

861
01:19:23,110 --> 01:19:31,030
entire property could. So what I was thinking is that since

862
01:19:31,030 --> 01:19:38,430
viewing these as at this point, as separate, that could be owned by two different people.

863
01:19:40,670 --> 01:19:47,370
And the existing, the updated property, the 121 property, could stay.

864
01:19:47,550 --> 01:19:48,370
Could stay.

865
01:19:50,440 --> 01:19:58,960
The owner of 123 decides, given all these problems, I just want to tear the whole thing down.

866
01:19:58,960 --> 01:19:59,860
there

867
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:10,700
Left with a 30 foot width by which to, I mean, and that would be what, how much score footage would

868
01:20:10,700 --> 01:20:12,100
they be allowed?

869
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:20,960
That gets in, that's so hard. What isn't it, is it, aren't you talking about a very

870
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:29,200
weirdly shaped building that, in my view, it's like a shotgun house, like one room from

871
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:37,340
back the front. So if they demolished the duplex, if they demolished one half of the duplex,

872
01:20:37,740 --> 01:20:42,400
but they setbacks and everything else. Highly unlikely that they would be able to build it back

873
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:47,260
since the lot's subsdandered to contain the duplex. Sorry, we'll keep that again, they would

874
01:20:47,260 --> 01:20:50,000
would not be able to build a back.

875
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:52,320
Rightly not.

876
01:20:52,580 --> 01:20:53,780
And they would not.

877
01:20:56,180 --> 01:21:00,440
Because there's a lot of steps that go into figuring out something like this.

878
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,000
And generally, if it's a substandard, a lot that doesn't allow duplex.

879
01:21:04,020 --> 01:21:10,120
If you demolish one half of that duplex, you would have to bring the lot sort of into

880
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,940
conformance with what is allowed in the zone district.

881
01:21:14,940 --> 01:21:23,280
So you'd have to setbacks, and I'd just say, how much, how much of a house could be built?

882
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:26,940
This is how many estimate?

883
01:21:27,820 --> 01:21:34,040
No, I mean, they could still build from setback to setback, but I don't know any of four areas sort of implications.

884
01:21:35,780 --> 01:21:37,420
Yeah, I think this is a thought exercise.

885
01:21:37,420 --> 01:21:51,220
Yeah, it's a short exercise, but for me it goes to the issue whether there are special circumstances that would justify finding that the special review requirements have been met.

886
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:58,800
I think you lost me on that.

887
01:22:00,590 --> 01:22:06,670
If, if as a practical matter, the owner of 123,

888
01:22:09,050 --> 01:22:13,610
they either leave the building as it is without any kind of renovation.

889
01:22:14,510 --> 01:22:25,030
They do some renovation that is basically just updated, so it means it stays the way it is.

890
01:22:27,370 --> 01:22:33,710
Or if they want to have a modern building there, they've got to rip it down and start again.

891
01:22:33,850 --> 01:22:39,870
But to start again, the size of the lock, given all the setback requirements and everything else,

892
01:22:39,990 --> 01:22:47,390
we'll leave them with little option to build a viable house.

893
01:22:48,170 --> 01:22:55,510
Then, to me, that is a special circle of stance that would meet the second requirement for

894
01:22:55,510 --> 01:22:56,250
special review.

895
01:22:57,230 --> 01:23:02,930
Is it one of the gutter that the problem not be owner-generated or across?

896
01:23:03,690 --> 01:23:08,470
Yeah, but I don't know if that's applicable in this because it's in existence.

897
01:23:09,330 --> 01:23:15,270
It's on a lot of a certain size, a depth and weight.

898
01:23:17,850 --> 01:23:21,210
And it's giving current code as well,

899
01:23:21,710 --> 01:23:24,750
and depending on which trajectory of the day,

900
01:23:24,950 --> 01:23:28,970
it seems that the city staff would take on that given day.

901
01:23:29,730 --> 01:23:31,770
It seems like there's a lot of interpretation

902
01:23:31,770 --> 01:23:34,410
that could be swayed in all sorts of directions,

903
01:23:34,750 --> 01:23:38,410
that it's quite unclear even from the staff's perspective

904
01:23:38,410 --> 01:23:42,270
in this moment as to what would be the actual course

905
01:23:42,270 --> 01:23:44,470
of action, which almost makes it

906
01:23:44,470 --> 01:23:52,650
to the point where we're almost potentially creating a problem that technically doesn't

907
01:23:52,650 --> 01:23:57,230
even exist, which actually does put a hardship on the applicant's.

908
01:23:59,410 --> 01:24:07,230
This is a thought exercise that I think is way outside the current scope of our review.

909
01:24:07,430 --> 01:24:14,050
We've been asked to review a specific application, not a hypothetical if someone bought it in

910
01:24:14,050 --> 01:24:19,550
on half of it, we're talking about what is in front of us right now, so I want to make sure

911
01:24:19,550 --> 01:24:27,350
that we rain it back into where, how we're feeling about this application and which where are we

912
01:24:27,350 --> 01:24:37,510
leaning? I think you were ready to go on your conversation. Sorry, just before he does, we get into

913
01:24:37,510 --> 01:24:43,290
this, particularly often, actually, where it looks like we're going in a direction, there's

914
01:24:43,290 --> 01:24:52,350
This is a level of unclearity going on and yes I understand that our job is more or less

915
01:24:52,350 --> 01:24:58,370
to determine what is the next course of action in the moment at what we're looking at.

916
01:24:58,370 --> 01:24:59,970
However, there is some...

917
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:23,860
And we don't ever have clarity when we ask these questions about if it were not to be accepted as such, what would be the next course of action if the applicant or another applicant in this same vicinity and property came to us at a later date given the same code requirements that stand in the moment.

918
01:25:23,860 --> 01:25:31,180
And I think that there is a level of due diligence in that notion that just to simply state

919
01:25:31,180 --> 01:25:37,620
to knock it down completely is actually not really doing our scope of what we're here

920
01:25:37,620 --> 01:25:41,920
for in the first place because there is a chance they would come back to us and then give

921
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:49,680
us another instance which we do see in a different form on other projects and it feels

922
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:54,980
little disjointed altogether. I understand that that's not the given application in front of us,

923
01:25:55,400 --> 01:26:01,980
but I do want to know what the other options would be and I would love to always get a clear answer

924
01:26:01,980 --> 01:26:06,920
from the city. I understand there's a ton of amount of due diligence that goes into each of these

925
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:15,640
packets to come before us, but it's also, it does maybe affect, you know, potentially how I would even

926
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:17,840
maybe votes in the matter.

927
01:26:20,260 --> 01:26:21,640
So I think that

928
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:29,390
there are so many ways that a potential project

929
01:26:29,390 --> 01:26:37,580
could be designed on this lot that it is really, really, really difficult to put all of that

930
01:26:37,580 --> 01:26:41,340
in front of us and be like, okay, so if we say no to this, this is the potential options that

931
01:26:41,340 --> 01:26:48,160
could come in. And so I really want to put us back on track and talk about what's here currently

932
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:54,000
in front of us. That's our job is this project as presented by the applicant team and by

933
01:26:54,000 --> 01:27:00,080
Jeff by the city. Not the potential what could happen in the future if something doesn't

934
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:09,200
go the way this like that's yeah I'm just gonna intervene you need to focus on the request in front

935
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:14,660
of you. What could be built is not relevant to this discussion and we're not prepared to answer

936
01:27:14,660 --> 01:27:19,080
most kind of questions. You need to review the request in front of you. Doesn't meet the

937
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:24,980
findings, yes or no, and take action. I appreciate that. Thanks again. So, I want to bring

938
01:27:24,980 --> 01:27:32,760
us back to comments based on the review criteria, special review, you know, conformities. That's

939
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:38,200
what we're asking about. We're not talking about whether or not special review is required or that.

940
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:51,400
But do you believe the project as presented to us today, revised today, meets the intent, meets the letter, meets the review criteria we were giving?

941
01:27:51,540 --> 01:27:57,640
And I'm going to open the floor of Charlie, and I would ask that you make sure your microphone is on and that you use it, please.

942
01:27:59,100 --> 01:27:59,800
Thank you.

943
01:28:00,220 --> 01:28:01,800
Do you want this bread?

944
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:02,400
Yes.

945
01:28:10,180 --> 01:28:13,040
You bought it, you didn't even roll live with it.

946
01:28:13,940 --> 01:28:15,000
Cali, can we hear it?

947
01:28:15,060 --> 01:28:15,640
You hear the rules?

948
01:28:16,820 --> 01:28:19,100
However, we change.

949
01:28:21,100 --> 01:28:23,140
We made a constitution.

950
01:28:23,620 --> 01:28:24,220
It was great.

951
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:26,280
We amended it.

952
01:28:26,420 --> 01:28:27,240
It was a constitution.

953
01:28:28,020 --> 01:28:30,180
You get on people and women couldn't vote.

954
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:33,580
That great thing, the constitution, it wasn't right.

955
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:38,160
And what happened is, the amendments weren't all the sudden.

956
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:38,520
What happens?

957
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,260
You got some issues and you said, you know what?

958
01:28:40,340 --> 01:28:41,820
We wish we could change this.

959
01:28:42,300 --> 01:28:46,120
We can't, yeah, I could be on enough states to do it, but it ain't right, put it in the

960
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:47,000
in the in-game right category.

961
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:55,760
We get crap all the time that we have to approve, because they get to build on 6,000 square

962
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:56,480
foot in the basement.

963
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:58,480
And we wish that wouldn't be right.

964
01:28:58,580 --> 01:28:59,660
We're going to fix this on that.

965
01:29:02,410 --> 01:29:05,990
People need to change once they get married, and they need some space.

966
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:08,620
We need buy a house.

967
01:29:08,780 --> 01:29:13,900
You don't have the right to see if we would allow it, make whatever you want.

968
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:15,080
You gotta live within our room.

969
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:20,520
this is our community, but you gotta be able to let your both out a little bit when it

970
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:27,260
gains a weight. I think that's what this is. And I think, yes, there's a few rules that

971
01:29:27,260 --> 01:29:31,220
it doesn't really stick to, but

972
01:29:34,540 --> 01:29:37,740
this project allows to

973
01:29:42,030 --> 01:29:45,270
be lived in by people who didn't

974
01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:50,930
design the building to start with. It lets them make it more their own. Without

975
01:29:50,930 --> 01:29:54,150
They're like a bad thing, and they were the living.

976
01:29:54,570 --> 01:29:55,910
So I'm going to ask you again.

977
01:29:56,210 --> 01:29:56,390
Yes.

978
01:29:57,070 --> 01:29:59,490
Please address your comments to our review criteria.

979
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,860
This is, this is, this is coming, this is coming.

980
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:06,120
How did you say that you would find there's an undue hardship?

981
01:30:06,180 --> 01:30:11,620
Hold on, I want you to know what Charlie did do. Not you, to do it.

982
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:24,910
Why comments? Or were you bored to interpret things? If it was factual, if it was just read and fact,

983
01:30:24,910 --> 01:30:39,070
They don't need us. I believe that this is a good project for this space. I have no other comment about that about the criteria. I do not believe

984
01:30:40,310 --> 01:30:41,550
We often

985
01:30:42,690 --> 01:30:45,290
There's something wrong with every project, and

986
01:30:48,100 --> 01:30:49,360
I think the law is okay

987
01:30:50,740 --> 01:30:51,420
So,

988
01:30:54,370 --> 01:30:55,050
okay,

989
01:31:04,620 --> 01:31:06,960
is there any other comments that?

990
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:13,720
commissioners would like to make on our deliberation before we have a conversation with the

991
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:22,820
applicant team. Because as I read it there are three to three at three at the moment.

992
01:31:25,380 --> 01:31:33,220
Yeah, one, two, three. I know it. Four. And what's the room?

993
01:31:33,220 --> 01:31:35,400
Can we have 27 people here?

994
01:31:35,700 --> 01:31:36,040
Yeah, yeah.

995
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:39,560
OK, I was like, so we're four nose three, yeses.

996
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:41,140
Well, the nose conditional.

997
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,200
I want the rough deck go.

998
01:31:46,780 --> 01:31:47,840
And that might go well, switch.

999
01:31:48,900 --> 01:31:49,120
Oh.

1000
01:31:50,260 --> 01:31:51,300
Let me.

1001
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:52,780
So here's the thing.

1002
01:31:53,180 --> 01:31:55,300
We have a project currently.

1003
01:31:56,580 --> 01:31:59,860
And if it goes as presented today, you're a no.

1004
01:32:01,020 --> 01:32:01,980
Well, do we want to?

1005
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:08,560
I'm not not asking if they're going to make a change as it's presented right now. The answer is no.

1006
01:32:09,220 --> 01:32:18,400
However, I hear you. So, what I'm asking for is, is there anybody ready to make a motion, because this?

1007
01:32:18,980 --> 01:32:21,360
I think this comes to you for just a minute.

1008
01:32:22,460 --> 01:32:29,540
Okay. Because assuming that we're going to focus solely on special review.

1009
01:32:32,820 --> 01:32:38,720
and setting aside the special characteristics requirements

1010
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:39,780
that we have as we can do.

1011
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:44,060
The only one that is before us is the issue of undue hardship.

1012
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:51,380
And essentially what you're saying as I understand your position is

1013
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:59,640
that the applicant would have an undue hardship

1014
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:05,080
If they took away the rooftop deck, no,

1015
01:33:07,890 --> 01:33:08,670
that's not my view.

1016
01:33:09,810 --> 01:33:20,150
Then where is the code basis for making the distinction between the project with and without the rooftop deck?

1017
01:33:21,390 --> 01:33:27,610
As I understand the code, one of the provisions is neighborhood character.

1018
01:33:27,610 --> 01:33:36,370
And this house is, it does not comply with the Code Square footage requirements for that

1019
01:33:36,370 --> 01:33:37,050
lot.

1020
01:33:37,870 --> 01:33:45,970
Given that there are asking for a variance, I would like to include their impact on the

1021
01:33:45,970 --> 01:33:50,010
neighborhood in my decision on whether we're allowed or not.

1022
01:33:50,490 --> 01:33:57,090
Well, I think if that's part of your, like, pretty, there are other things in the code

1023
01:33:57,090 --> 01:34:03,930
that we didn't discuss tonight, but especially regarding things as a duplex and that there

1024
01:34:03,930 --> 01:34:08,670
is supposed to be symmetry of nature and there is none as current.

1025
01:34:09,270 --> 01:34:11,950
Where do you see that there's supposed to be symmetry in a duplex?

1026
01:34:11,950 --> 01:34:13,830
Absolutely symmetry in that code.

1027
01:34:14,290 --> 01:34:14,750
I'll find it.

1028
01:34:15,210 --> 01:34:18,090
I don't think that's a special review.

1029
01:34:18,690 --> 01:34:25,530
I don't see that neighborhood character has any role, because there are four defined characters.

1030
01:34:25,530 --> 01:34:32,230
The fortifying requirements, one in three or not in the spew, it's two in four.

1031
01:34:32,530 --> 01:34:34,570
And it doesn't talk about neighborhood character.

1032
01:34:36,830 --> 01:34:41,210
And on top of that, to the extent that we've heard from the neighbors,

1033
01:34:41,470 --> 01:34:43,250
the neighbors have said they're fine with it.

1034
01:34:43,790 --> 01:34:50,070
Well, let's see, we did get the next door neighbor who requested that the side facing,

1035
01:34:50,070 --> 01:34:58,570
which is a deck, which they have done, and the project still remains about 700.

1036
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:09,980
50 feet over the the current standard for that lot. And so removing the 134 feet of deck that are currently

1037
01:35:09,980 --> 01:35:20,120
allocated towards four area would make you more amenable to furthering that. That and the effect that this

1038
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:30,680
It would still be an overly large for that lot in that neighborhood project, but it would be less so,

1039
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,740
if the roof was utilitarian and recreational.

1040
01:35:36,420 --> 01:35:36,940
That's all.

1041
01:35:37,500 --> 01:35:38,180
That's the question.

1042
01:35:39,060 --> 01:35:44,180
How many of the other buildings are over there?

1043
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:44,480
A lot.

1044
01:35:45,660 --> 01:35:47,360
Hey, you guys have an answer on that?

1045
01:35:47,700 --> 01:35:48,920
How many more over?

1046
01:35:48,920 --> 01:36:06,260
I don't think it's, yeah, I don't know if that's like, I don't know, I don't know if anybody knows and for

1047
01:36:06,260 --> 01:36:08,220
I already count to really hard to come up with.

1048
01:36:08,900 --> 01:36:14,580
But if the side of the thing is the problem, if the neighborhood characteristics

1049
01:36:14,580 --> 01:36:20,000
everybody's going over, then that is actually a neighborhood characteristic.

1050
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,740
One of the neighborhood characteristics, but maybe two of that.

1051
01:36:26,220 --> 01:36:35,260
Most of our neighbors are multi-family, and they enjoy a much higher floor area, smaller

1052
01:36:35,260 --> 01:36:38,840
setbacks and a higher height allowance.

1053
01:36:39,460 --> 01:36:44,860
Do you think there's a particular subset of the housing stock here, yes?

1054
01:36:44,980 --> 01:36:45,260
Correct.

1055
01:36:45,580 --> 01:36:51,180
And it has a lower, all of that lower height lower floor area and greater setback request.

1056
01:36:54,440 --> 01:37:01,440
And we're characteristic to John Start building is greater than one on nine I think is the

1057
01:37:03,780 --> 01:37:05,920
I'm going to decide that at the fourth one, right?

1058
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:07,240
I'm going to call it that.

1059
01:37:07,480 --> 01:37:07,740
That is also.

1060
01:37:08,540 --> 01:37:11,180
The different characteristic is the,

1061
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:12,900
about a lot of square footers.

1062
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:16,800
Well, fewer buildings, larger square footers, not to lot.

1063
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:18,660
But this is not that.

1064
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:23,020
This is a particular property with a,

1065
01:37:23,660 --> 01:37:27,520
a characteristic that is going to be altered one way or another.

1066
01:37:28,060 --> 01:37:28,680
And sorry.

1067
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:33,360
This conversation is proving one number two.

1068
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:38,520
It doesn't get past them or two, it is they are the same as the other properties in the zone district.

1069
01:37:39,180 --> 01:37:44,840
It's not special, there are no characteristics you need to make it any different to approve it via special review.

1070
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:51,240
I don't know if you could say you could not get past because I think that you need to look at each statement,

1071
01:37:51,580 --> 01:37:57,240
each number and its entirety and its severance from the others.

1072
01:37:57,240 --> 01:38:04,240
but coming back to my former points in section 26.410.03O,

1073
01:38:05,740 --> 01:38:08,540
single-family and duplex standards under B,

1074
01:38:09,060 --> 01:38:13,120
there's a level of intent and it states that this standard

1075
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:16,900
seeks to establish a relationship between buildings

1076
01:38:16,900 --> 01:38:20,800
and streets to create an engaging streetscape

1077
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,700
and discourage the isolation of homes from the surrounding

1078
01:38:23,700 --> 01:38:24,060
neighborhood.

1079
01:38:24,060 --> 01:38:27,000
So that is in the residential design standards,

1080
01:38:27,980 --> 01:38:31,680
which is not asking for symmetry in a duplex.

1081
01:38:32,540 --> 01:38:36,360
They're asking for a building that is

1082
01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:38,740
approachable from the streetscape.

1083
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:42,140
Not saying that they need to look exactly the same.

1084
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:44,760
That's up to interpretation.

1085
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:47,440
And in my interpretation, I perceive it to be.

1086
01:38:47,480 --> 01:38:48,380
There's other layers.

1087
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:49,620
That's just one.

1088
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:50,800
And I can keep going here.

1089
01:38:51,440 --> 01:38:52,940
But there are other layers that

1090
01:38:52,940 --> 01:38:58,900
discuss having an aesthetic appeal as well as symmetry amongst them and I

1091
01:38:58,900 --> 01:39:03,780
think we've referenced some of that back to our cemetery Lane duplex with the

1092
01:39:03,780 --> 01:39:08,840
large truck that was trying to park in its space as well. Okay let's bring

1093
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:20,980
it back to the current project as presented today and there are right now three and

1094
01:39:20,980 --> 01:39:30,660
with the swing vote here. The way I read your current plants and tell me if I'm totally off-base is

1095
01:39:30,660 --> 01:39:39,820
essentially you are using 150 square feet of deck square footage using that as FAR because you're

1096
01:39:39,820 --> 01:39:47,500
over by that amount of your deck exemption, which is 416 square feet. Something like that correct?

1097
01:39:47,500 --> 01:39:56,580
and so 16 square feet from unit 123 gets counter-torts for area and 134 square feet from

1098
01:39:57,620 --> 01:39:59,540
121 gets counter-torts for area.

1099
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:10,940
You are asking for a complete removal of the roof deck to get you there, which would then put them under their allowable floor area for deck.

1100
01:40:11,900 --> 01:40:19,700
So they would have to, they would have whatever would be less than they really needed to give.

1101
01:40:20,340 --> 01:40:24,140
Less than they would still have Jack in the alley.

1102
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:30,940
But the way the code allocates space.

1103
01:40:31,140 --> 01:40:34,920
So they would still have billable deck that they vibrate can use.

1104
01:40:36,540 --> 01:40:36,600
Okay.

1105
01:40:41,270 --> 01:40:42,110
team.

1106
01:40:45,530 --> 01:40:52,430
Is there any give on the deck, all right? So we had quite a lot of conversation and

1107
01:40:52,430 --> 01:41:00,150
Barry probably had even more so with his significant other about the changes. And as you

1108
01:41:00,150 --> 01:41:06,510
heard, Mr. Keaton said when he was presenting to you, you know, it's personal, right? It's

1109
01:41:06,510 --> 01:41:16,310
home, we all look at our home as our castle, and in particular, it's a master bedroom, master

1110
01:41:16,310 --> 01:41:16,730
bath.

1111
01:41:17,590 --> 01:41:22,410
Jack, I mean, you can hear him envisioning being in that space that the resistance is

1112
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:25,490
So, difficult conversation for him.

1113
01:41:27,730 --> 01:41:36,110
What's important to him is to continue to be able to have that rooftop deck on the Western

1114
01:41:36,110 --> 01:41:39,870
unit, the 121 unit,

1115
01:41:42,290 --> 01:41:54,060
and the 123 is where we focused, the entirety of those decks were removed.

1116
01:41:55,320 --> 01:42:01,240
The deck off the master bedroom, removed the deck off the front, removed the rooftop deck,

1117
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:07,660
which has, as you can imagine, it's a very attractive amenity to the project.

1118
01:42:09,980 --> 01:42:11,900
Barry is still married.

1119
01:42:12,540 --> 01:42:15,420
Today, I just picked over, he's got to ring on his fingers.

1120
01:42:16,500 --> 01:42:18,560
I'm guessing I mean, he's still married.

1121
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:29,260
The rooftop deck we're remaining on the 121 unit is key to him being able to maintain that status

1122
01:42:29,260 --> 01:42:31,440
and being able to do this project.

1123
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:34,400
So I would ask you to consider that fact.

1124
01:42:34,980 --> 01:42:38,160
I understand that there's a whole range of criteria

1125
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:39,160
that you're considering.

1126
01:42:39,780 --> 01:42:43,960
It would still be over on both deck area and floor area.

1127
01:42:48,190 --> 01:42:51,130
There are lots of unique characteristics

1128
01:42:51,130 --> 01:42:53,290
of this property in the way it was built

1129
01:42:53,290 --> 01:42:54,630
and the floor area is built under

1130
01:42:54,630 --> 01:42:57,210
and the codes it was built under.

1131
01:42:57,210 --> 01:43:10,070
But I can tell you that that tipping point, there is a tipping point there of removing that last remaining deck that is very important to Mr. Kidden.

1132
01:43:10,650 --> 01:43:16,930
So I'd ask you, I'd ask you to consider that factor.

1133
01:43:16,930 --> 01:43:26,890
With respect to the recreational ease of the decks, there is a spa on a 123 roof deck that is being removed.

1134
01:43:27,390 --> 01:43:31,610
So we're reducing the amount of recreational use with those decks.

1135
01:43:32,090 --> 01:43:33,650
I know this is a beard.

1136
01:43:34,430 --> 01:43:34,550
Yeah.

1137
01:43:34,890 --> 01:43:36,930
I can also offer that.

1138
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:40,600
It's interesting.

1139
01:43:40,740 --> 01:43:41,260
I can also...

1140
01:43:41,260 --> 01:43:42,040
I think it was like this.

1141
01:43:42,440 --> 01:43:43,380
Wasn't it?

1142
01:43:43,400 --> 01:43:44,480
The hot tub is existing.

1143
01:43:44,580 --> 01:43:45,680
Yeah, this is today.

1144
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:53,400
I can also offer that, you know, you date here from one neighbor, Mr. Star that we've talked

1145
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:58,880
about, and, you know, we went quite far, maybe further than what this mission was expecting

1146
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:04,300
in terms of addressing his concerns about decks on the unit facing the good tender.

1147
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:06,000
I mean, they're completely removed,

1148
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:12,220
and Mr. Kaden in his ownership has never had a neighbor

1149
01:44:12,220 --> 01:44:17,520
plane about him using the rooftop deck on his unit in the spa.

1150
01:44:18,540 --> 01:44:20,100
I mean, he rented the property as well.

1151
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:21,960
He's never received a complaint there.

1152
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:26,720
We didn't have any neighbor comments or no one came into the hearing.

1153
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:32,500
So, you know, it doesn't mean that there aren't people that are annoyed,

1154
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:37,480
but no one has advanced enough to either contact,

1155
01:44:37,480 --> 01:44:57,480
Mr. Kagan or to you know respond to a public public notice. So, you know, again, I'm sort of making a plea to you to understand that sort of the tipping point for the applicant in how he's envisioning

1156
01:44:57,480 --> 01:44:59,620
Now continuing to be able to use the property.

1157
01:45:01,820 --> 01:45:04,380
Okay. Okay. At this point.

1158
01:45:06,340 --> 01:45:06,820
Yeah.

1159
01:45:12,100 --> 01:45:12,100
So.

1160
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:17,740
At this point, we have three and three and one on the fence.

1161
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:25,660
As the project stands today, if there is a motion made to approve, are you voting us or no?

1162
01:45:26,260 --> 01:45:29,280
As it stands tonight, I would vote no.

1163
01:45:29,500 --> 01:45:29,980
Okay.

1164
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:38,860
So, as of that, I want you, if we vote today and you get a denial, that means you can't

1165
01:45:38,860 --> 01:45:40,860
re-submit this for a year, correct?

1166
01:45:41,140 --> 01:45:46,220
And so I want to ask you for what, how you guys would like to see, because I don't want

1167
01:45:46,220 --> 01:45:48,680
to put you guys in a bad situation.

1168
01:45:49,500 --> 01:45:50,040
Yeah, understand.

1169
01:45:50,600 --> 01:45:53,920
I think the way we'd like to proceed is we'd like to ask for a continuation.

1170
01:45:56,180 --> 01:45:58,300
I think there needs to be some design consideration.

1171
01:45:58,300 --> 01:46:02,760
I think there's also a conversation between Mr. and Mrs. Keaton.

1172
01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:09,540
So, yeah, so I think we would enjoy that additional time to be able to process that.

1173
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:16,600
Okay, I think that is, let's look at when we have time on the calendar and see when,

1174
01:46:16,620 --> 01:46:22,380
give you guys time to make some adjustments and that, you know, it looks like the first week in,

1175
01:46:22,380 --> 01:46:25,480
And the first meeting in October is probably too soon.

1176
01:46:26,300 --> 01:46:34,380
I mean, and the second meeting we already have stuff on.

1177
01:46:37,930 --> 01:46:42,350
But use of the 10, 16, we had a item.

1178
01:46:43,410 --> 01:46:44,390
No, not a little bit.

1179
01:46:44,510 --> 01:46:46,830
9, 16, we have a special item.

1180
01:46:47,450 --> 01:46:48,470
I think we did the answer.

1181
01:46:49,030 --> 01:46:49,970
Was it October?

1182
01:46:50,090 --> 01:46:51,610
October, 10, 7.

1183
01:46:51,970 --> 01:46:53,210
Sorry, sorry, I get the money.

1184
01:46:57,370 --> 01:47:05,210
You told me, go to 107, sorry, I don't think we have that sheet, by the way, if you guys can email it.

1185
01:47:06,410 --> 01:47:08,350
Okay, I'll be helpful.

1186
01:47:11,330 --> 01:47:12,690
That is an R sheet.

1187
01:47:13,170 --> 01:47:15,590
That's everyone sheet, so R is different.

1188
01:47:16,610 --> 01:47:17,670
So, thank you.

1189
01:47:17,830 --> 01:47:19,450
We, 107?

1190
01:47:24,410 --> 01:47:25,630
No, it's only 6 times.

1191
01:47:25,810 --> 01:47:26,350
Not us.

1192
01:47:32,870 --> 01:47:40,530
107 works okay is there a motion to continue this until October 7th I will make a motion

1193
01:47:40,530 --> 01:47:45,570
to continue this till October 7th is there a second

1194
01:47:46,210 --> 01:47:49,750
second I'm not sure I can be there

1195
01:47:49,750 --> 01:47:56,040
well I think at this point

1196
01:48:03,660 --> 01:48:04,180
Okay,

1197
01:48:06,450 --> 01:48:11,630
I will make a motion that we continue this to ten twenty-one.

1198
01:48:13,330 --> 01:48:13,590
Wait.

1199
01:48:14,310 --> 01:48:15,350
Ten twenty-one.

1200
01:48:15,450 --> 01:48:16,010
I'm sorry.

1201
01:48:16,570 --> 01:48:19,070
Are we going this seventh or the twenty first?

1202
01:48:19,210 --> 01:48:19,850
There's like.

1203
01:48:20,230 --> 01:48:21,970
But I'd love for Ken to be here, honestly.

1204
01:48:22,190 --> 01:48:22,710
Okay.

1205
01:48:23,490 --> 01:48:24,250
The twenty first.

1206
01:48:24,890 --> 01:48:25,150
Perfect.

1207
01:48:31,490 --> 01:48:32,810
And we have a roll call please.

1208
01:48:33,210 --> 01:48:33,490
Next.

1209
01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:35,900
Yes.

1210
01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:37,800
Charlie.

1211
01:48:39,940 --> 01:48:51,740
Yes. Yes. Yes. Tom. Yes. Can. Yes. Theresa. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, ladies. Thank you, ladies.

1212
01:48:51,740 --> 01:48:54,160
Thank you, ladies. Yes. I'm going to pay you a little bit of time.

1213
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:56,900
It's a tough one.

1214
01:48:56,940 --> 01:48:58,160
It would be difficult to build it.

1215
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:00,760
Keep it on your toes.

1216
01:49:03,460 --> 01:49:05,320
We had the Aspen Meta's project.

1217
01:49:05,620 --> 01:49:06,860
We only worked three times.

1218
01:49:10,340 --> 01:49:12,400
It depends on the day of the weekend.

1219
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:13,340
It depends on the day of the weekend.

1220
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:14,700
So it's not a fault.

1221
01:49:19,150 --> 01:49:20,170
Haley Hart.

1222
01:49:22,370 --> 01:49:23,250
Good bye.

1223
01:49:25,790 --> 01:49:26,910
Thank you so much.

1224
01:49:27,830 --> 01:49:28,650
Thank you.

1225
01:49:28,770 --> 01:49:57,570
All right, Haley, thank you all right, we'll make this quick. I don't even put slides together for this. So I've got the reservation so

1226
01:49:58,770 --> 01:49:59,510
Charlie

1227
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:11,500
For your benefit. Yeah, I'm happy to swing me. Had a last meeting, remember, on the 19th.

1228
01:50:12,220 --> 01:50:29,600
We reviewed a request for a code amendment to defer building department fees on some free market, something or something.

1229
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:41,840
The overwhelming response at this table was hard no, please update the resolution, and that is what Haley is presenting to us.

1230
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:44,600
Yeah.

1231
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:48,060
The only move that we approve Haley's due resolution?

1232
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:51,660
Hold on.

1233
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:53,260
I get to call for the second.

1234
01:50:53,260 --> 01:51:00,540
to try to miss the meeting, I mean, it was just the prior meeting.

1235
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:10,260
You were here for the reach set of the, this is the meeting at which we decided that it was too difficult to...

1236
01:51:11,700 --> 01:51:13,540
Yeah, to find a wall to work.

1237
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:15,360
Yes, yes.

1238
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:17,380
That was not at the meeting.

1239
01:51:17,440 --> 01:51:19,120
That's okay, because it was in the package.

1240
01:51:19,500 --> 01:51:20,820
Yeah, I did read it.

1241
01:51:20,820 --> 01:51:22,160
But how are we going to do that?

1242
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:24,160
OK.

1243
01:51:24,700 --> 01:51:29,020
Well, yeah, it's not even that we decided it was too difficult.

1244
01:51:29,980 --> 01:51:30,720
It was too full.

1245
01:51:31,780 --> 01:51:35,400
How do you just define a long term local A?

1246
01:51:36,260 --> 01:51:40,980
And B, off its cuff, is this regardless of how we define it,

1247
01:51:41,080 --> 01:51:43,360
is it appropriate to defend building

1248
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:46,640
department fees for free market projects?

1249
01:51:46,700 --> 01:51:47,780
Sure, there are a couple of different questions.

1250
01:51:47,780 --> 01:51:58,980
And the overwhelming response to that was a it's too hard to define that. So let's get rid of that and be we don't believe is appropriate to do that

1251
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:03,200
Yeah, and I added this comments into this to our estimates

1252
01:52:03,880 --> 01:52:04,900
Did you?

1253
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:07,240
I like did you take this to council yet?

1254
01:52:07,700 --> 01:52:09,240
No, not by it.

1255
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:14,860
Okay.

1256
01:52:15,220 --> 01:52:17,720
Further questions further comments do you want to?

1257
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:18,620
I mean

1258
01:52:18,620 --> 01:52:25,740
That's the problem one's time that one of the things it was hard to envision all of the various scenarios that might arise

1259
01:52:25,740 --> 01:52:30,460
But some obvious ones indicated some great unfairness for example

1260
01:52:30,460 --> 01:52:34,240
You could have somebody that would qualify as a long-term

1261
01:52:35,120 --> 01:52:36,820
Local qualified local

1262
01:52:37,500 --> 01:52:38,680
Whose billionaire

1263
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:47,420
The way you fees for sure, but you have somebody in after house and who on well never get their fees waves who can't get the fees weight

1264
01:52:47,420 --> 01:52:59,520
So, that was the starkest example of how waving fees based on some definition of how long you've been here,

1265
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:05,320
or some other qualifications attached to who is an local doesn't make any sense.

1266
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:12,900
Unless you want to tie it to income or something like that, and that's a way beyond anything I think that makes sense.

1267
01:53:12,900 --> 01:53:22,620
Yeah. So then was the pivot to something more workforce oriented.

1268
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:24,940
No, we just found it in the process.

1269
01:53:25,020 --> 01:53:26,840
We had a long discussion about it.

1270
01:53:26,840 --> 01:53:32,800
And we found that it just was not practically to come up with some kind of a definition

1271
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:36,760
that would kind of weave through all these different, or there's still been variables.

1272
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:39,780
Yeah, and you couldn't imagine all of them anyway.

1273
01:53:39,780 --> 01:54:01,100
And ordinance 11 that we were presented with is very pointed so it wasn't like we're talking about a broad like how do we do this in all areas of the code it was a very specific request from one very specific property that asked Council to to do this and so Council directed staff and staff in there.

1274
01:54:01,100 --> 01:54:15,800
the way they have to do it is coming to us saying here is a proposed ordinance 11 does P&D recommend approving it and we said we don't recommend approving it and additionally we don't

1275
01:54:16,780 --> 01:54:22,900
recommend coming up with a qualified local definition because there's too many variables it's too hard to figure out

1276
01:54:22,900 --> 01:54:31,760
from America. So what we did was we asked staff to come up with a proposed resolution that reflected

1277
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:37,480
or discussion. Okay. And so what Haley's done? And so resolution, I believe, Tracy, we are

1278
01:54:37,480 --> 01:54:51,760
on resolution nine is recommending denial by city council to adopt the fee deferral in ordinance

1279
01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:56,940
open now. No, we're just saying hey, we changed it. Thank you.

1280
01:54:57,740 --> 01:54:59,960
And now, to save him.

1281
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:07,800
A lot of time, I know that we adopt the new resolution that Haley has written, resolution nine as a written.

1282
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:09,680
For a peaches in our packet, just.

1283
01:55:09,780 --> 01:55:12,900
I don't look at the packets the same way you do, so I got no idea.

1284
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:14,940
But it's a really late.

1285
01:55:15,140 --> 01:55:19,280
Wait, this should be the last page in your packet.

1286
01:55:19,340 --> 01:55:23,520
So it is in 1847 in our packet of 150.

1287
01:55:24,200 --> 01:55:27,840
Okay, so and all this is doing is...

1288
01:55:27,840 --> 01:55:32,460
for a wine. Yeah. What we had, or the council not me, but all

1289
01:55:32,460 --> 01:55:35,780
this is. Okay. Good. Is there a second? Second.

1290
01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:41,680
Can we have a roll call vote, please? Yes. Charlie.

1291
01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:46,100
Good job.

1292
01:55:48,680 --> 01:56:00,100
Marianne. Yes. Eric. Yes. Tom. Yes. Ken. Yes. Theresa. Yes. Motion passes. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1293
01:56:00,100 --> 01:56:03,400
Without further ado, is there a motion for adjourn to adjourn?

1294
01:56:03,400 --> 01:56:03,980
I'm a adjourn.

1295
01:56:04,160 --> 01:56:05,080
Is there a second?

1296
01:56:05,560 --> 01:56:06,660
Oh, totally has some.

1297
01:56:06,860 --> 01:56:07,020
Totally well.

1298
01:56:07,020 --> 01:56:08,000
Oh, sorry.

1299
01:56:26,980 --> 01:56:28,420
I don't want you gone.

1300
01:56:28,780 --> 01:56:31,940
I do want you to do the courtesy of emailing.

1301
01:56:32,200 --> 01:56:34,420
So, because I can't remember my own schedule,

1302
01:56:34,580 --> 01:56:35,680
let alone is anyone's.

1303
01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:43,480
So, I do not remember that.

1304
01:56:43,500 --> 01:56:45,120
Nor is it reflected in meeting minutes.

1305
01:56:45,400 --> 01:56:45,800
So, there you go.

1306
01:56:46,860 --> 01:56:47,360
All right.

1307
01:56:48,220 --> 01:56:49,980
All in favor of adjourning at 6.28.

1308
01:56:49,980 --> 01:56:59,920
Hi. Perfect. Thank you. Who's the second on that? I'm Tom was the second on that.

1309
01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:04,120
Do you want my meeting? My notes? Because I got something. Thank you. Actually go ahead, yes.

1310
01:57:08,120 --> 01:57:11,880
There are some that I'm why I got nothing, but yeah, I take a lot of notes.

1311
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:18,020
I see. I'm boring for us. If I were taking notes I'd have a hard time following the discussion.

1312
01:57:18,020 --> 01:57:19,460
It helps me fall into this guy.

1313
01:57:20,140 --> 01:57:23,120
Otherwise I'm like, I have so many other things going on in my brain.

1314
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:24,260
I don't want to listen to this.

1315
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:26,240
I got a question.

1316
01:57:29,660 --> 01:57:30,560
Thank you.

1317
01:57:31,500 --> 01:57:31,940
See you.

1318
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:33,040
Good evening.

1319
01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:33,720
Good job.

1320
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:34,780
Thank you.

1321
01:57:36,040 --> 01:57:36,460
Thank you.

1322
01:57:40,400 --> 01:57:43,160
And my hand is like,

1323
01:57:44,120 --> 01:57:45,720
I'll see you.

1324
01:57:46,300 --> 01:57:46,740
All right.

1325
01:57:47,900 --> 01:57:48,420
Thank you.

1326
01:57:48,620 --> 01:57:49,180
Thank you.

1327
01:58:19,320 --> 01:58:22,480
Yeah, that's part of our demo, right?

1328
01:58:22,500 --> 01:58:26,220
We never had the right idea of what we were talking about.

1329
01:58:29,540 --> 01:58:30,860
We heard the operands.

1330
01:58:31,360 --> 01:58:31,600
We heard the operands, right?

1331
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:33,020
Yeah, they were doing it very easily.

1332
01:58:33,660 --> 01:58:34,100
I know.

1333
01:58:35,280 --> 01:58:36,260
We're good at that.

1334
01:58:37,740 --> 01:58:38,880
Sorry, that's so.

1335
01:58:39,680 --> 01:58:41,820
I don't think I'm going to get under the level.

1336
01:58:42,460 --> 01:58:45,280
I don't think I'm going to get under the level.

1337
01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:47,900
I don't think I'm going to.

1338
01:58:47,900 --> 01:58:48,660
Why is that?

1339
01:58:49,660 --> 01:58:51,040
That was a...

1340
01:58:51,040 --> 01:58:52,940
That the plan is a weird thing.

1341
01:58:53,640 --> 01:58:56,500
It's a whole bunch of young adults.

1342
01:58:57,460 --> 01:58:58,700
But you kind of, kind of,

1343
01:58:59,000 --> 01:58:59,360
you know,

1344
01:59:00,120 --> 01:59:02,660
but we're not going to do a technical matters.

1345
01:59:02,940 --> 01:59:03,740
We need to know.

1346
01:59:04,240 --> 01:59:05,020
So, if I say,

1347
01:59:05,140 --> 01:59:06,160
a administrative assignment,

1348
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:07,280
we're going to be like,

1349
01:59:07,280 --> 01:59:08,740
one hundred or one hundred,

1350
01:59:09,060 --> 01:59:09,440
one hundred,

1351
01:59:09,940 --> 01:59:10,320
two hundred.

1352
01:59:10,900 --> 01:59:11,420
That's that.

1353
01:59:13,860 --> 01:59:15,000
It was pretty stupid.

1354
01:59:15,420 --> 01:59:15,500
It was...

1355
01:59:15,500 --> 01:59:16,680
It was a very stupid thing.

1356
01:59:46,680 --> 01:59:48,880
I think they're going to be local, sorry.

1357
01:59:49,700 --> 01:59:50,380
Is that something?

1358
01:59:50,640 --> 01:59:51,320
No, they don't.

1359
01:59:51,700 --> 01:59:51,860
They don't.

1360
01:59:52,740 --> 01:59:53,980
There you go.

1361
01:59:54,300 --> 01:59:56,740
Do you think they're going to be local?

1362
01:59:57,860 --> 01:59:58,500
They're going to be local.

1363
01:59:58,520 --> 01:59:59,280
They're going to be local.

1364
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:03,780
The speaker is good to be good at all.

1365
02:00:03,780 --> 02:00:04,400
The speaker is good at all.

1366
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:06,980
The speaker is good, the speaker is good.

1367
02:00:07,080 --> 02:00:09,200
The speaker is good.

1368
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:11,640
The speaker is good.

1369
02:00:13,620 --> 02:00:17,840
We're just gonna take a look at the deal with it.

1370
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:18,600
That's a good deal.

1371
02:00:19,800 --> 02:00:20,500
Thank you.

1372
02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:22,080
I'm so glad to have you here.

1373
02:00:22,080 --> 02:00:23,220
I really want to thank you.

1374
02:00:24,200 --> 02:00:24,780
It's a terrible,

1375
02:00:26,900 --> 02:00:28,040
although we've identified with you,

1376
02:00:28,100 --> 02:00:29,180
with your clothes, but I got

1377
02:00:37,370 --> 02:00:38,670
it.

1378
02:00:38,670 --> 02:00:41,610
I'm not saying that it's for two health workers.

1379
02:00:43,750 --> 02:00:44,770
My name is Rolikron.

1380
02:00:46,270 --> 02:00:48,050
Okay, so, the minute I go, I'm gonna go.

1381
02:00:48,050 --> 02:00:48,850
Okay, so, the minute I go, I'm gonna go.

1382
02:00:50,050 --> 02:00:50,790
I'm the next one.

1383
02:00:51,210 --> 02:00:51,290
Yeah.

1384
02:00:51,970 --> 02:00:55,610
I have grown a more covered-out love.

1385
02:00:55,850 --> 02:00:56,630
It's sort of a question.

1386
02:00:57,050 --> 02:00:58,590
It's basically based on the regulation.

1387
02:00:59,090 --> 02:01:00,450
It can, like, be said.

1388
02:01:00,970 --> 02:01:02,730
We're doing this at a philosophy company,

1389
02:01:02,970 --> 02:01:04,610
and it doesn't mean that if you want to be coming out of that study.

1390
02:01:04,850 --> 02:01:06,750
It would have been a whole different things.

1391
02:01:10,210 --> 02:01:13,650
You mean that was the first question in the other end?

1392
02:01:14,390 --> 02:01:15,070
We don't have to.

1393
02:01:17,110 --> 02:01:18,050
Oh, maybe.

1394
02:01:18,550 --> 02:01:19,010
That's all.

1395
02:01:21,790 --> 02:01:23,270
Oh, it's a rule.

1396
02:01:23,850 --> 02:01:24,890
If you didn't want to take it.

1397
02:01:24,890 --> 02:01:25,850
Well, you know, you get right there.

1398
02:01:25,990 --> 02:01:27,310
There are so many differences.

1399
02:01:27,850 --> 02:01:28,130
Oh, yeah.

1400
02:01:28,870 --> 02:01:29,910
She comes to me.

1401
02:01:30,170 --> 02:01:30,870
Something like that.

1402
02:01:30,870 --> 02:01:32,210
How do you process something?

1403
02:01:32,630 --> 02:01:33,030
You don't know what's up.

1404
02:01:33,270 --> 02:01:33,870
You know what's up.

1405
02:01:36,210 --> 02:01:43,510
It's just kind of, you know, what applies here, because some projects would be, there's a simple sum of you on it.

1406
02:01:44,030 --> 02:01:45,450
Yeah, you can do it.

1407
02:01:45,790 --> 02:01:47,490
You can do it like something.

1408
02:01:47,790 --> 02:01:49,250
No, no, no, no, no.

1409
02:01:49,250 --> 02:01:50,270
You can do it like that.

1410
02:01:50,270 --> 02:01:51,350
You can do it like that.

1411
02:01:51,350 --> 02:01:52,670
I just know.

1412
02:01:52,730 --> 02:01:53,610
I know that.

1413
02:01:53,790 --> 02:01:59,870
In the last 10, 16, he can drive 13 sentences per hour.

1414
02:02:01,090 --> 02:02:01,930
I mean, that's good.

1415
02:02:01,930 --> 02:02:03,890
He's done. He's done the first.

1416
02:02:04,210 --> 02:02:05,910
I mean without a record.

1417
02:02:05,990 --> 02:02:08,210
You wouldn't be able to really prove that, I don't think.

1418
02:02:08,210 --> 02:02:11,650
So, as an nature way, that doesn't allow them. That's a kind of stupid.

1419
02:02:13,130 --> 02:02:15,450
Yeah, I would say that you need to change the nature way.

1420
02:02:15,770 --> 02:02:17,370
Wow, that makes it a little better.

1421
02:02:19,830 --> 02:02:20,750
That's perfect.

1422
02:02:20,870 --> 02:02:21,550
I did it.

1423
02:02:23,200 --> 02:02:24,620
Do you want this one sandwich?

1424
02:02:25,120 --> 02:02:26,220
Oh, I don't give it something.

1425
02:02:26,760 --> 02:02:29,340
This person who is...

1426
02:02:29,340 --> 02:02:30,660
This is like very...

1427
02:02:30,660 --> 02:02:32,060
I help you.

1428
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:38,300
There we go.

1429
02:02:47,240 --> 02:02:49,540
I didn't think of all the crap we have proved.

1430
02:02:50,860 --> 02:02:53,300
Do you stick around just to say that?

1431
02:02:56,560 --> 02:02:57,840
Well, that's easy.

1432
02:02:58,800 --> 02:03:00,320
Why don't you down on this one?

1433
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:01,300
A hardship.

1434
02:03:02,220 --> 02:03:04,080
I need to build a three-dimensional group of basement.

1435
02:03:04,880 --> 02:03:05,180
Over on.

1436
02:03:05,180 --> 02:03:12,300
Well, what reason I'm drawing a lot of artists is that it's not pretty much a special necessity

1437
02:03:12,300 --> 02:03:15,980
It's because the guy is not enough nothing that says it we have to be in the business

1438
02:03:16,900 --> 02:03:18,580
Oh, we have to be in the business

1439
02:03:18,580 --> 02:03:19,500
We have to be in the business

1440
02:03:22,060 --> 02:03:25,500
But we've all stood out there, they're funny, fine

1441
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:29,180
And yeah, like, funny years are fine

1442
02:03:33,720 --> 02:03:41,880
You could have been, probably, when you stole, you could have, I just go, I think you could try that.

1443
02:03:42,120 --> 02:03:57,140
Okay, so it's been, again, usually, really, it's isn't, it's just, it's been a big amount of time of life until one that we could, you know, we're, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.