1 00:00:00,166 --> 00:00:03,533 - I'm gonna call the to order the 2 00:00:04,533 --> 00:00:06,066 September 14th meeting of the Town 3 00:00:06,066 --> 00:00:08,100 of Vail Planning Environmental Commission. 4 00:00:09,066 --> 00:00:11,700 We have five recording in progress. Thank you. 5 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:14,000 We have, I'll say again. 6 00:00:14,033 --> 00:00:18,033 I'll call to order the September 14th meeting of the Town 7 00:00:18,033 --> 00:00:19,634 of Vail Planning Environmental Commission. 8 00:00:20,333 --> 00:00:23,000 We have five commissioners in the room present. 9 00:00:25,133 --> 00:00:28,066 The first item on our agenda, which I think everyone is here 10 00:00:28,066 --> 00:00:30,266 for today, is 3.1. 11 00:00:30,266 --> 00:00:33,033 Recommendation to the Vail Town Council pursuant 12 00:00:33,033 --> 00:00:35,834 to section 12 dash three dash seven Vail Town 13 00:00:35,834 --> 00:00:37,867 code prescribed regulations. 14 00:00:38,166 --> 00:00:40,000 Amendment to chapter six 15 00:00:40,066 --> 00:00:44,567 of Title 12 Vale Town code sections 12 dash six C dash eight 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,567 A and 12 dash 68 a. 17 00:00:47,567 --> 00:00:51,467 Dwelling units PZC file 26 dash 21. 18 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:53,133 The planner on the file is Heather. 19 00:00:53,767 --> 00:00:55,367 I believe we have Matt in the room as well. 20 00:00:57,266 --> 00:00:59,467 Matt, do you wanna present for the TA for as the applicant? 21 00:00:59,467 --> 00:01:00,834 - Heather, you want take? No, 22 00:01:01,066 --> 00:01:02,066 - I'm good. 23 00:01:02,066 --> 00:01:03,467 I'm gonna hand it off to Matt. Thank you. 24 00:01:05,100 --> 00:01:06,567 - Okay, thank you Mr. Chair. 25 00:01:06,834 --> 00:01:11,066 Members of the commission, I'd like to start off just 26 00:01:11,266 --> 00:01:16,033 by stating as a preface that we will request this item 27 00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:18,834 to be tabled and continue the public hearing 28 00:01:19,333 --> 00:01:22,066 to a date certain after we discuss this item. 29 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:26,467 But I'd like to just jump right into the 30 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:29,100 discrepancy and kind 31 00:01:29,100 --> 00:01:31,033 of the confusion we're trying to clear up. 32 00:01:32,066 --> 00:01:35,233 So as you can see up there on that very simple slide, 33 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:39,867 as it's written today in the two family 34 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,233 and two family primary secondary zone districts, 35 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:49,066 you have a minimum lot site area of 15,000 square feet 36 00:01:49,066 --> 00:01:50,133 of buildable area 37 00:01:51,634 --> 00:01:54,266 with dimensional requirements added in there. 38 00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:59,033 I put in the definition of buildable area, you can see 39 00:01:59,033 --> 00:02:03,333 that up there any portion or lot 40 00:02:03,433 --> 00:02:06,934 or site which does not contain designated flood plain red 41 00:02:06,934 --> 00:02:10,000 hazard avalanche area, that's high avalanche danger 42 00:02:10,433 --> 00:02:14,033 and areas in excess of 40% slope. 43 00:02:15,333 --> 00:02:19,333 Then you get down to density control in both zone districts 44 00:02:20,367 --> 00:02:24,533 and you have a provision that says not more than a total 45 00:02:24,567 --> 00:02:29,266 of two dwelling units shall be permitted on any site 46 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:31,500 with only one dwelling unit permitted on 47 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:34,500 existing lots less than 14,000 square feet. 48 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:37,000 And then you get into the exception, 49 00:02:38,066 --> 00:02:41,533 which really says properties that meet any of those three 50 00:02:41,634 --> 00:02:45,567 or all of those three conditions will be permitted a a total 51 00:02:45,567 --> 00:02:48,567 of two dwelling units on existing lots 52 00:02:49,433 --> 00:02:51,500 less than 14,000 square feet. 53 00:02:52,367 --> 00:02:55,000 So it does beg the question, what about those lots 54 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,233 between 14,000 square feet 55 00:02:57,634 --> 00:03:00,700 and 14,999 square feet? 56 00:03:02,166 --> 00:03:03,734 There's a bit of a gap there. 57 00:03:04,467 --> 00:03:08,567 So what we were trying to do is clean it up, simplify it, 58 00:03:08,634 --> 00:03:11,033 make it actually understandable, not just 59 00:03:11,066 --> 00:03:14,266 for property owners, residents, builders, et cetera, 60 00:03:14,266 --> 00:03:17,367 but for staff legal counsel, everybody. 61 00:03:17,867 --> 00:03:22,000 'cause this is is very confusing and understandably so. 62 00:03:23,133 --> 00:03:25,734 So I think the, the draft ordinance was really a, 63 00:03:25,834 --> 00:03:29,834 a first attempt at addressing this and simplifying it. 64 00:03:30,033 --> 00:03:34,033 I think the manner in which we simplified that, 65 00:03:34,133 --> 00:03:36,767 and I do mean the royal we collectively 66 00:03:37,333 --> 00:03:41,367 town staff legal counsel, some of the comments we heard is 67 00:03:42,333 --> 00:03:44,033 likely not the right direction 68 00:03:44,033 --> 00:03:48,000 because we just bump right up to 15,000 square feet 69 00:03:48,166 --> 00:03:50,634 and just make that the new standard. 70 00:03:51,133 --> 00:03:53,467 Taking out the exceptions and 71 00:03:53,567 --> 00:03:56,700 and changing that to that 15,000 as you can see 72 00:03:57,266 --> 00:03:59,266 in the proposed language on the screen. 73 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:04,767 So this did stem from a lawsuit 74 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:06,567 that the town was not a party to, 75 00:04:07,367 --> 00:04:09,300 but we were deposed as part of, 76 00:04:10,033 --> 00:04:14,333 and the attorney doing the deposition did point out kind of 77 00:04:14,367 --> 00:04:19,066 how confusing and sort of just ambiguous this language is. 78 00:04:19,266 --> 00:04:23,467 So again, I know Matt Muir, our town attorney's online. 79 00:04:23,533 --> 00:04:25,533 Matt, did you want to add anything to 80 00:04:25,533 --> 00:04:26,834 what I've just said there? 81 00:04:27,433 --> 00:04:30,000 - Yeah, yeah. And I, I came into this late, hi everyone. 82 00:04:31,734 --> 00:04:34,533 I think the ordinance maybe goes too far in trying 83 00:04:34,634 --> 00:04:36,634 to rectify this. 84 00:04:36,834 --> 00:04:41,100 The, the, the minimum size, a lot size requirement 85 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:44,100 and then the amount of density controls. 86 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:46,300 Again, I don't think it's understated 87 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:48,066 that this came out of a deposition. 88 00:04:48,867 --> 00:04:50,000 The town wasn't a party 89 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,033 and I did not, I did not do the deposition 90 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,533 but I read the transcript at least a portion 91 00:04:55,533 --> 00:04:56,934 of the transcript that's relevant. 92 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,133 And he was wondering how the density control, you know, 93 00:05:00,367 --> 00:05:03,033 coexisted with the lot size requirement. 94 00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:07,100 I look at it to say that if you're between 14,000 95 00:05:07,266 --> 00:05:11,233 and 15,000 of billable area, 96 00:05:11,433 --> 00:05:13,300 we lose billable area in the two sections. 97 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:14,634 And I think we need to build that in. 98 00:05:15,066 --> 00:05:18,266 Secondly, I think that the question becomes what to do 99 00:05:18,266 --> 00:05:23,066 with current lots of between 14,015, let's say your 100 00:05:23,834 --> 00:05:25,233 existing lot was 14 five. 101 00:05:27,100 --> 00:05:29,767 I read it even though it's not very clear 102 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:31,367 that you can have a a duplex. 103 00:05:32,333 --> 00:05:35,000 I'd like to hear what other people think of that. 104 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,500 But I read it the current code 105 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:37,934 as saying you could have a duplex 106 00:05:38,433 --> 00:05:40,367 and the code amendment would make you 107 00:05:41,567 --> 00:05:45,100 only have only the ability to have 1 1 1 dwelling unit. 108 00:05:45,900 --> 00:05:47,233 So I think that's the issue. 109 00:05:47,467 --> 00:05:49,867 I don't think I want you to carry this ordinance forward. 110 00:05:50,033 --> 00:05:52,867 It's, I became acquainted with it today. 111 00:05:54,133 --> 00:05:55,133 But I think, 112 00:05:56,333 --> 00:05:58,066 I think we take need to take another look at it. 113 00:05:58,266 --> 00:06:00,066 I'm not sure there's a conflict in the code. 114 00:06:00,233 --> 00:06:01,734 I definitely think there's an ambiguity. 115 00:06:02,333 --> 00:06:05,300 I think in the deposition it was read as a clear conflict 116 00:06:05,467 --> 00:06:09,333 and I think this ordinance maybe goes too far. 117 00:06:09,734 --> 00:06:13,000 If everyone agrees with my analysis that between 14 118 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,734 and 15 today you could have two 119 00:06:16,033 --> 00:06:19,100 and this ordinance would reduce that to one. 120 00:06:19,533 --> 00:06:22,266 - Yeah, and I think that's really the most confusing aspect 121 00:06:22,266 --> 00:06:26,734 of it is that density control provision only applies 122 00:06:26,867 --> 00:06:30,100 to existing lots less than 14,000 square feet. 123 00:06:30,233 --> 00:06:32,567 And again, not buildable area 124 00:06:33,567 --> 00:06:35,266 but 14,000 square feet. 125 00:06:35,734 --> 00:06:40,033 So that's really just a brief kind of overview of this. 126 00:06:40,133 --> 00:06:42,300 We didn't want to get too far into the weeds 127 00:06:42,367 --> 00:06:46,033 and just to let you know, we recognize that this is probably 128 00:06:46,634 --> 00:06:50,333 not the best approach to fix this as it could result in 129 00:06:51,066 --> 00:06:55,066 people losing some potential density on their lots. 130 00:06:55,867 --> 00:06:58,066 And so we'd like to go back to the drawing board 131 00:06:58,133 --> 00:06:59,000 and rework this. 132 00:06:59,834 --> 00:07:02,133 We didn't wanna wait until the larger 133 00:07:03,133 --> 00:07:04,367 unified development code, 134 00:07:04,433 --> 00:07:06,367 the code rewrite effort is complete. 135 00:07:06,367 --> 00:07:09,100 That's gonna take a while. We are making good progress, 136 00:07:09,367 --> 00:07:14,066 but we'll see, you know, if we can come up with, 137 00:07:14,133 --> 00:07:15,100 with better language 138 00:07:15,367 --> 00:07:19,133 and more equitable approach to this, to this issue. 139 00:07:19,467 --> 00:07:20,867 - So I'm glad you brought that up. 140 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:23,133 'cause as written it seemed like it was pulling the rug out 141 00:07:23,634 --> 00:07:24,867 from the current. 142 00:07:25,133 --> 00:07:28,100 - Yeah, I think that was absolutely an oversight. And 143 00:07:29,033 --> 00:07:32,467 - Is there just, is the simple, if you want 144 00:07:32,467 --> 00:07:35,000 to address this due to this legal issue that arose, 145 00:07:35,667 --> 00:07:40,300 is there no reason to just simply make you know, 12 six 146 00:07:41,133 --> 00:07:44,033 C five with billable site area 14,000 147 00:07:44,066 --> 00:07:45,700 and we can be in line with both? 148 00:07:46,166 --> 00:07:48,000 - And that's actually a policy question. 149 00:07:48,367 --> 00:07:50,233 Thank you for raising it that we'd like 150 00:07:50,233 --> 00:07:52,333 to ask you. Is that Yeah, 151 00:07:52,367 --> 00:07:55,066 - I, I think I I think that that would fix it, you know, 152 00:07:55,900 --> 00:07:59,100 but at the same time I think I'd also like to hear, 153 00:07:59,133 --> 00:08:00,266 'cause you know, as I read it, 154 00:08:00,266 --> 00:08:02,233 you can have two units on that lot. 155 00:08:02,266 --> 00:08:03,767 If it's between 14 and 15 156 00:08:04,567 --> 00:08:07,033 and if the planning commission's comfortable with that, 157 00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:09,367 then then we need to adjust that as well 158 00:08:09,367 --> 00:08:13,266 because that that's the section. 159 00:08:13,867 --> 00:08:16,533 Yeah, yeah. I think the, the change above would fix it. 160 00:08:16,533 --> 00:08:19,867 But I also want to build in buildable area 161 00:08:20,133 --> 00:08:24,100 and then clear that up on lots between the, 162 00:08:24,266 --> 00:08:26,934 the density control and, and the, 163 00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:28,867 and the site area of law itself. 164 00:08:28,867 --> 00:08:30,033 Because it, it seems to me, 165 00:08:30,767 --> 00:08:32,500 I don't think it's getting a conflict today. 166 00:08:32,567 --> 00:08:33,634 I think I talked to Dominique, 167 00:08:33,634 --> 00:08:35,033 he doesn't think it's a conflict either, 168 00:08:35,233 --> 00:08:37,567 but I think he would agree it, it's ambiguous. 169 00:08:38,133 --> 00:08:39,467 - So my understanding, 170 00:08:39,467 --> 00:08:43,000 at least hearing some context from the people around this is 171 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,333 that the whole 14,000 square foot piece came up 172 00:08:47,333 --> 00:08:50,066 regarding a study done maybe 15 years ago 173 00:08:50,133 --> 00:08:53,533 or something like that, or that showed 174 00:08:53,533 --> 00:08:56,133 that there were quite a few lots in primary secondary 175 00:08:56,900 --> 00:09:00,767 that fell in that 14,000 to 15,000 square foot range. 176 00:09:00,867 --> 00:09:02,000 Are you familiar with that 177 00:09:02,066 --> 00:09:03,066 or kind of where that came out of? 178 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:07,767 - I'm not, I know the last, there were two amendments. 179 00:09:07,867 --> 00:09:11,367 The one that actually changed the density control language 180 00:09:11,367 --> 00:09:15,567 and made it 14,000 was ordinance number six 181 00:09:15,834 --> 00:09:17,033 of 2000. 182 00:09:17,100 --> 00:09:22,033 So in the year 2000 prior to that it had always been 15. 183 00:09:22,433 --> 00:09:24,734 So again, I'm not sure that was, yeah, I think, I think, 184 00:09:24,767 --> 00:09:25,767 - Sorry go ahead. 185 00:09:25,767 --> 00:09:26,734 I think that was based on the study. 186 00:09:27,033 --> 00:09:28,734 I think it was before my time as well. 187 00:09:29,834 --> 00:09:31,567 It was chairman but I would say 188 00:09:32,266 --> 00:09:34,233 that my understanding it's based on the study 189 00:09:34,266 --> 00:09:35,734 and the town use consultants 190 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,867 and they were a lot, they were, there were lots that were 14 191 00:09:38,867 --> 00:09:40,767 and that was the, the goal is to fix that. 192 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:44,100 So this would be a departure from whatever 193 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:45,634 that study kind of recommended. 194 00:09:46,734 --> 00:09:49,767 - Are you looking for direction from the commission today 195 00:09:49,867 --> 00:09:51,467 on, on that piece 196 00:09:51,867 --> 00:09:54,333 or you just kind of wanna reconsider those? 197 00:09:54,667 --> 00:09:59,000 - Yeah, I, you know, I do, I do know originally two family 198 00:09:59,367 --> 00:10:03,300 and two family primary, secondary were structured to, 199 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:07,734 in some instances avoid overcrowding in neighborhoods 200 00:10:08,367 --> 00:10:11,000 that consist of mainly smaller lots. 201 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:14,934 So again, it ties back to the non-conformity section 202 00:10:15,066 --> 00:10:18,133 as well, which is a whole nother can 203 00:10:18,133 --> 00:10:21,066 of worms we could open up and have fun with today. 204 00:10:21,033 --> 00:10:25,066 But you know, these lots, these structures are still subject 205 00:10:25,066 --> 00:10:27,767 to the non-conformity language of the code. Yep. 206 00:10:28,266 --> 00:10:30,233 - I, I, I think, I think we are looking Mr. 207 00:10:30,467 --> 00:10:31,567 Chairman in field direction and, 208 00:10:31,934 --> 00:10:34,233 and specifically what I'm looking for is whether you're, 209 00:10:34,233 --> 00:10:35,700 whether everyone's okay 210 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,066 and currently if we read it as being, you know, 211 00:10:39,066 --> 00:10:41,100 even though it doesn't expressly say you can have two, 212 00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:44,233 two dwelling units on between 14 and 15. 213 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,333 If that's the, if that's the goal, then we need to, yeah, 214 00:10:48,433 --> 00:10:50,133 I'd like your direction on whether the 215 00:10:50,834 --> 00:10:53,533 planning commissions comfortable recommending the maximum 216 00:10:53,634 --> 00:10:56,266 of two dwelling units on lots between 14 and 15 217 00:10:56,834 --> 00:10:59,500 and then one on lots less than 14 218 00:11:01,367 --> 00:11:02,867 - Unless an exception applies. 219 00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:04,300 Correct. 220 00:11:06,133 --> 00:11:08,867 - Okay. - Unless, unless yeah the exception applies 221 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,100 but I think the exception, you know, we, 222 00:11:11,133 --> 00:11:12,133 we can fix that later. 223 00:11:12,467 --> 00:11:14,000 I think we, your direction on this 224 00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:15,533 will drive the rest of it. 225 00:11:16,166 --> 00:11:20,300 - Understood. Well I kind 226 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:22,100 of jumped in there there other questions from 227 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:23,333 commissioners for staff. 228 00:11:24,333 --> 00:11:27,934 - I guess - If, if we're under 14 229 00:11:28,033 --> 00:11:31,500 and somebody wants to build a one bedroom accessory dwelling 230 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:32,867 unit, yes or no. 231 00:11:34,333 --> 00:11:36,233 - If it is a deed restricted, 232 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,834 I can't tell you which type EHU. 233 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:43,033 Yes. 'cause it would not affect density 234 00:11:44,233 --> 00:11:45,867 if not deed restricted then 235 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,000 - It wouldn't be. 236 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,333 Yeah. Right. So I mean 237 00:11:51,367 --> 00:11:54,300 is the whole decision here, I mean 238 00:11:55,266 --> 00:11:57,867 when I read it I interpreted it was 239 00:11:57,867 --> 00:12:00,100 that 15 was gonna be the mark 240 00:12:00,934 --> 00:12:02,300 but now you guys are saying 241 00:12:03,767 --> 00:12:06,033 we're we're saying 14. 14 and 242 00:12:06,834 --> 00:12:09,100 - Yeah I've given the number of lots, a lot of 14 243 00:12:09,133 --> 00:12:12,100 that are just under 15,000 in many cases 244 00:12:12,233 --> 00:12:14,300 and somewhere between 14 245 00:12:14,367 --> 00:12:18,233 and 15, you know, it's ambiguous what they get. 246 00:12:18,233 --> 00:12:20,934 Right. 'cause density control does not apply to them. 247 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:24,100 So you assume as our attorney just said 248 00:12:24,567 --> 00:12:26,533 that they would be allowed a duplex 249 00:12:26,867 --> 00:12:30,634 'cause it's not addressed in in those two provisions 250 00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:32,066 for that zone district. So 251 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,133 - I mean if I was a lot owner and I fell between 14 252 00:12:36,166 --> 00:12:38,266 and 15, I would feel the town 253 00:12:38,433 --> 00:12:41,467 with this proposal was taking away a lot of value 254 00:12:42,133 --> 00:12:43,934 from my underlying property. 255 00:12:44,233 --> 00:12:48,934 - Yes. Agreed. Yes. And we acknowledge that. 256 00:12:48,934 --> 00:12:52,867 Which is why we preempted this with a request for a tabling. 257 00:12:57,500 --> 00:12:59,767 - Are there other questions from commissioners for staff? 258 00:13:04,033 --> 00:13:05,133 Alright, hearing none. 259 00:13:05,033 --> 00:13:07,867 I guess that took care of applicant and staff presentation. 260 00:13:08,433 --> 00:13:10,066 So we will open up to public comment. 261 00:13:10,867 --> 00:13:11,900 Just you are aware, 262 00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:13,066 it sounds like we are not gonna take 263 00:13:13,066 --> 00:13:14,433 action on this item today. 264 00:13:14,433 --> 00:13:17,000 We'll go back to staff for some rework. 265 00:13:17,533 --> 00:13:19,433 You're here, we'd still like to hear your comments 266 00:13:19,567 --> 00:13:22,867 so we'll open up to public comment if you'd like 267 00:13:22,867 --> 00:13:24,867 to come forward and speak, please state your name 268 00:13:24,867 --> 00:13:27,667 for the record and then we can hear what you have to say. 269 00:13:28,166 --> 00:13:30,033 You can come forward to one of these microphones here 270 00:13:30,066 --> 00:13:31,000 at the, at the table? 271 00:13:31,133 --> 00:13:32,133 Yep. 272 00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:36,100 - I'll start out. 'cause I used to be where you are. 273 00:13:38,033 --> 00:13:41,767 Hi, my name's Susan Bird and I live in Westvale 274 00:13:42,433 --> 00:13:45,266 and I bought my house back in 1986 275 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:48,900 and at that time it was in Eagle County. 276 00:13:49,834 --> 00:13:51,533 It was zoned primary, secondary. 277 00:13:53,667 --> 00:13:56,634 The lot was well is like 278 00:13:56,767 --> 00:13:59,033 9,200 square feet. 279 00:14:00,333 --> 00:14:04,033 Does this new zoning, would that take away my right if 280 00:14:04,033 --> 00:14:05,533 that house was torn down 281 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,533 that I couldn't recreate a primary secondary? 282 00:14:08,867 --> 00:14:10,233 Is that what you guys are going for 283 00:14:10,667 --> 00:14:11,934 or am I misunderstanding? 284 00:14:12,066 --> 00:14:14,467 - So we can't get into a Q and A with public comment 285 00:14:14,667 --> 00:14:17,033 but we can, after public comment is done, 286 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,734 we can maybe refer some of those questions to, 287 00:14:18,767 --> 00:14:20,033 to staff. So, and 288 00:14:20,033 --> 00:14:21,066 - We're not going for anything. 289 00:14:21,634 --> 00:14:23,066 Staff is bringing this board. 290 00:14:23,266 --> 00:14:26,000 - We're voting. Oh, staff - Is. We're voting on this. Yeah. 291 00:14:26,066 --> 00:14:28,033 - Oh - You can't lump us in with them. 292 00:14:28,634 --> 00:14:32,667 - Oh. So once staff figures out the upper portion 293 00:14:33,634 --> 00:14:37,533 then the lower portion will be dealt with at a later time. 294 00:14:38,033 --> 00:14:39,700 - It sounds like they might be considering 295 00:14:40,233 --> 00:14:41,300 together, but yeah. 296 00:14:42,133 --> 00:14:45,367 - Okay. So next meeting then I 297 00:14:45,367 --> 00:14:46,500 shouldn't even come over here. 298 00:14:46,867 --> 00:14:48,266 I'm going home. Thank you. 299 00:14:49,133 --> 00:14:50,934 - And actually just to reconfirm, 300 00:14:50,934 --> 00:14:52,567 this would be Reno, correct? 301 00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:53,934 With changes or, 302 00:14:53,934 --> 00:14:56,567 - Oh yeah, that would be good - Actually. 303 00:14:57,233 --> 00:14:59,033 Great question. Hi. Hi. 304 00:15:01,467 --> 00:15:05,100 We did send out I think about 1600 mailings. 305 00:15:05,266 --> 00:15:06,634 It's required mailed notice. 306 00:15:07,066 --> 00:15:10,467 That's why we, when we request a tabling of the item 307 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:13,533 and a continuance of the public hearing, we will do it 308 00:15:13,533 --> 00:15:16,333 to a date certain with the hope that everybody hears 309 00:15:16,333 --> 00:15:19,834 that date and understands that that covers the notice. 310 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,734 - So for everyone here when we continue this, the date 311 00:15:22,734 --> 00:15:24,000 of the meeting will be noted. 312 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,934 Please write down that date if you'd like to 313 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,233 and you can keep an eye on the agenda for that meeting 314 00:15:29,266 --> 00:15:32,266 and you'll see the proposed notice for that meeting. For 315 00:15:32,266 --> 00:15:33,266 - That meeting. 316 00:15:33,266 --> 00:15:35,734 And for all we know we might request a tabling again. So. 317 00:15:36,266 --> 00:15:38,066 - Okay. Thank you. Are you tabling? 318 00:15:38,266 --> 00:15:39,266 'cause you're short-staffed? 319 00:15:40,266 --> 00:15:41,533 - I, I think we're tabling it 320 00:15:41,533 --> 00:15:44,033 because we've realized, you know, 321 00:15:44,033 --> 00:15:45,834 after going through this a number of times 322 00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:49,100 that this was just too broad of a brush stroke 323 00:15:49,133 --> 00:15:50,266 to try to fix something. 324 00:15:50,634 --> 00:15:51,700 That's it. 325 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:53,634 It was a little oversimplified and, 326 00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:55,367 and affects too many people. So 327 00:15:55,634 --> 00:15:56,634 - Great. 328 00:15:56,634 --> 00:15:58,133 Thanks. Yep. Thank you. I, 329 00:15:58,333 --> 00:15:59,500 - I'll go back in your - Audience. 330 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:00,500 Thanks Matt. 331 00:16:07,867 --> 00:16:12,066 - Hi Diane Boyer, owner of 8 0 4 lot 8 0 4 332 00:16:12,133 --> 00:16:14,467 and 8 0 6 potato patch drive 333 00:16:15,166 --> 00:16:19,033 and I have a home on lot 8 0 4 334 00:16:19,133 --> 00:16:23,934 and 8 0 6 is probably one of the only undeveloped 335 00:16:24,834 --> 00:16:28,266 lots in the Town of Vail that this, well there's a few, 336 00:16:28,367 --> 00:16:30,100 literally handful of others. 337 00:16:30,734 --> 00:16:35,567 And so we've owned those lots since 1978 338 00:16:36,467 --> 00:16:39,333 And I know things have changed over the years 339 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:43,867 but I've been paying taxes on lot 8 0 6, 340 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,100 the undeveloped lot as a primary secondary 341 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,066 or a duplex lot for all of those years. 342 00:16:51,867 --> 00:16:53,533 And I would expect that 343 00:16:54,467 --> 00:16:57,033 whatever changes are made in the code, that 344 00:16:57,734 --> 00:17:01,834 my lot would be grandfathered in so that if I were 345 00:17:01,834 --> 00:17:03,934 to sell my lot I could still sell it 346 00:17:04,133 --> 00:17:06,834 as I own it currently. Thank you. 347 00:17:07,033 --> 00:17:07,533 - Thank you. 348 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:21,133 Hello Dominic Ello, my in-laws happened to own a house 349 00:17:21,133 --> 00:17:24,533 that's between fif 14 and 15,000 square feet. 350 00:17:25,233 --> 00:17:27,233 But I thought it would give you a little bit of background. 351 00:17:28,033 --> 00:17:31,033 I was here and I, Alison Kent who's here was also on staff 352 00:17:31,033 --> 00:17:35,934 at the time we worked on, I worked on this amendment 353 00:17:35,934 --> 00:17:40,300 that was done in 2000, which took the maximum size 354 00:17:40,567 --> 00:17:44,100 that would allow you to have two units down to 14,000. 355 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:46,066 And what was done at the time, it was part 356 00:17:46,066 --> 00:17:48,000 of actually an employee housing discussion. 357 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:52,567 We looked at how many lots there were going down 358 00:17:52,567 --> 00:17:54,734 to like 8,000 square feet and you, 359 00:17:55,066 --> 00:17:57,033 and so we had kind of come up with this range 360 00:17:57,066 --> 00:17:59,300 and I think at the time we were recommending 361 00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:02,333 that they drop the minimum lot size to like 12 or 13. 362 00:18:03,033 --> 00:18:06,133 'cause that kind of captured a lot of the lots there. 363 00:18:06,266 --> 00:18:08,066 I I think there was a recognition 364 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,066 that when all those properties were annexed into the town, 365 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:13,000 they were immediately down zoned. 366 00:18:13,333 --> 00:18:15,867 You know, they were all made nonconforming when, 367 00:18:15,867 --> 00:18:16,934 when they were annexed. 368 00:18:16,934 --> 00:18:18,634 And I'm always kind of surprised 369 00:18:18,634 --> 00:18:19,934 that people just let that happen. 370 00:18:20,567 --> 00:18:22,700 I know there was a little bit of an uproar when there was a 371 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:24,100 westville annexation, 372 00:18:24,734 --> 00:18:26,500 but I was always kind of surprised 373 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:30,367 that people over 50 years didn't, you know, kind 374 00:18:30,367 --> 00:18:32,700 of raise their hand and go, why did we accept this? 375 00:18:33,333 --> 00:18:35,333 But just regarding that, 376 00:18:36,333 --> 00:18:37,834 so we went through this whole analysis. 377 00:18:38,066 --> 00:18:42,000 The planning commission at the time I remember was felt safe 378 00:18:42,066 --> 00:18:43,000 with 14,000. 379 00:18:43,166 --> 00:18:44,734 They didn't want to open it up 380 00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:47,834 and allow too many lots to come into that 381 00:18:47,834 --> 00:18:52,033 because the theory was you might lose then deed restricted 382 00:18:52,033 --> 00:18:54,300 housing because you could do a primary 383 00:18:54,734 --> 00:18:56,066 and then you could do the second one 384 00:18:56,066 --> 00:18:58,033 as a type one employee housing unit. 385 00:18:58,133 --> 00:19:00,867 But nobody was really doing that at the time. 386 00:19:01,233 --> 00:19:04,033 Nobody was building the secondary unit 387 00:19:04,433 --> 00:19:06,533 as a deed restricted unit in that zone district. 388 00:19:06,533 --> 00:19:09,300 And so we were just looking at what was the, 389 00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:11,467 what was the right, you know, limit. 390 00:19:11,467 --> 00:19:12,934 And so they picked 14,000 391 00:19:13,166 --> 00:19:17,467 and so it's been 26 years that 14,000 square feet was the, 392 00:19:17,867 --> 00:19:21,100 was the cutoff between a duplex and a single family. 393 00:19:24,166 --> 00:19:27,000 Yeah, so, so that, that's what went on at the time. 394 00:19:27,033 --> 00:19:29,567 There was a discussion about changing the 15,000 395 00:19:29,567 --> 00:19:30,867 square foot minimum lot size. 396 00:19:31,433 --> 00:19:33,567 But there was a concern that, oh if I'm coming in 397 00:19:33,567 --> 00:19:36,000 with a new subdivision, we still want those lots 398 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,000 to be 15,000 square feet. 399 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,734 They didn't feel comfortable changing the minimum lot size 400 00:19:40,834 --> 00:19:42,000 for new subdivisions. 401 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,467 So that's why you see the difference. 402 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:46,266 It doesn't really matter that there's a difference 403 00:19:46,266 --> 00:19:48,700 between the 15,000 and the 14,000. 404 00:19:48,934 --> 00:19:53,266 The 14 is really just discussing the, the, the divide 405 00:19:53,266 --> 00:19:54,467 between one unit and two unit. 406 00:19:54,734 --> 00:19:57,033 The 15,000 is just saying that's 407 00:19:57,033 --> 00:19:59,934 what a normal conforming lot is. 408 00:20:00,734 --> 00:20:02,033 So any of the lots 409 00:20:02,033 --> 00:20:04,000 that are less than 15,000 square feet today are still 410 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,100 non-conforming lots. 411 00:20:05,834 --> 00:20:09,867 But they're not non-conforming if they're over 14,000 square 412 00:20:09,867 --> 00:20:11,066 feet and they have a duplex, 413 00:20:11,066 --> 00:20:13,367 they're not non-conforming with respect to density. 414 00:20:14,667 --> 00:20:17,000 So I had some discussions with both mats 415 00:20:17,467 --> 00:20:20,367 and I think that everybody's kind of on the same page 416 00:20:20,367 --> 00:20:22,567 as going back and taking another look at it. 417 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,033 And hopefully, you know, all of the other exception criteria 418 00:20:26,033 --> 00:20:28,500 that are there will stay in there as well. 419 00:20:29,333 --> 00:20:33,467 'cause I think that was done in I think 2016 maybe to try 420 00:20:33,467 --> 00:20:36,233 to make it a little bit more understandable 421 00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,567 of when you can tear down an existing house and 422 00:20:39,634 --> 00:20:42,834 and rebuild it back as a duplex. 423 00:20:43,033 --> 00:20:46,033 So that's all I have. Thank you. Thank you. 424 00:20:54,367 --> 00:20:55,634 - Hi, I am Charlin Canada 425 00:20:56,233 --> 00:20:59,867 and I was wondering about the procedure of this 426 00:21:00,533 --> 00:21:03,467 possible zoning change with the 427 00:21:03,467 --> 00:21:04,834 recommendation from the staff. 428 00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:08,000 This board will make the decision 429 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,233 or does it go eventually to the Town Council? 430 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:12,300 - It has to go to council, has to go. 431 00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:14,066 This is a recommendation from the planning 432 00:21:14,066 --> 00:21:15,700 commission to the Town Council. 433 00:21:16,033 --> 00:21:19,100 - Okay, thank you. And then I wondered if I can see 434 00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,033 that if somebody voluntarily takes down, 435 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:24,066 they'll own both sides of the duplex. 436 00:21:24,734 --> 00:21:29,000 That it could be restricted to a single family 437 00:21:29,033 --> 00:21:30,233 with a new construction. 438 00:21:30,233 --> 00:21:31,233 Correct. 439 00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:34,000 - We're not gonna answer questions. Theron Gore. 440 00:21:34,133 --> 00:21:37,000 The public comment is for the public. Provide comments now? 441 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,533 Yeah, if you raise a question we're gonna come back. 442 00:21:40,533 --> 00:21:41,567 You're gonna come back to us? 443 00:21:41,567 --> 00:21:43,133 Yeah, I'm And we'll, we'll ask staff. 444 00:21:43,467 --> 00:21:44,333 - I heard that but I didn't know 445 00:21:44,333 --> 00:21:45,533 that my question qualified for 446 00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:47,900 - It's all good. 447 00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:51,500 - Maybe this is the same thing but I guess, okay. 448 00:21:51,567 --> 00:21:53,000 Yes it is. I'll, I'll 449 00:21:53,033 --> 00:21:54,367 - You can ask a question and we 450 00:21:55,033 --> 00:21:56,033 - A question. 451 00:21:56,033 --> 00:21:57,300 - Well I was thinking, - You know, I 452 00:21:57,300 --> 00:22:00,233 - Was saying like voluntary versus a wildfire going through 453 00:22:00,433 --> 00:22:02,634 that you would be allowed to build what, 454 00:22:02,667 --> 00:22:03,834 rebuild what you had. 455 00:22:04,066 --> 00:22:05,233 But maybe that's the same thing. 456 00:22:05,533 --> 00:22:07,300 - Noted. Yeah, thank you. - Okay, thank you 457 00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:21,634 Pam Denmark and I have a question that's only semi-related 458 00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:26,100 to this issue and that my question is about notice of the, 459 00:22:26,066 --> 00:22:29,100 this issue and in our neighborhood I wouldn't have known 460 00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:33,033 about it had Charla not sent out a message to us 461 00:22:33,033 --> 00:22:35,367 that there was something coming up that is effective. 462 00:22:35,467 --> 00:22:38,266 I live in multi-family zoning and so, 463 00:22:39,634 --> 00:22:43,700 but if, if there's a lot next to me that's going 464 00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:45,767 to be redeveloped, I would be affected. 465 00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:49,367 So I'm asking how you notify people 466 00:22:49,734 --> 00:22:53,467 and why I was omitted when I lived practically across the 467 00:22:53,467 --> 00:22:54,867 street from Charlin 468 00:22:55,133 --> 00:22:57,266 and I did check around with our neighbors 469 00:22:57,333 --> 00:23:00,934 and nobody in our multifamily received notice 470 00:23:00,934 --> 00:23:02,500 of the media or of the issue. 471 00:23:03,133 --> 00:23:05,033 - Understood. Thank you. 472 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:15,567 Is there anyone else in the 473 00:23:15,767 --> 00:23:20,133 audience I forgot to mention? 474 00:23:20,266 --> 00:23:21,700 I dunno if we have anyone online too, 475 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,333 but if you're online you can raise your hand 476 00:23:23,333 --> 00:23:24,734 and we'll promote you when we're finished 477 00:23:24,834 --> 00:23:26,467 with commentary in the audience. 478 00:23:26,667 --> 00:23:27,667 Yep. 479 00:23:28,133 --> 00:23:29,700 - Hello, my name's Jack Bergey. 480 00:23:29,834 --> 00:23:32,500 I own a lot in some lots in Westvale 481 00:23:33,266 --> 00:23:37,700 and I became intimately involved with this little section 482 00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:40,867 of the code five years ago when I applied to 483 00:23:42,867 --> 00:23:45,767 tear down my place and build a, build a duplex 484 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,767 and my que, that's not a question. 485 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,533 My issues with the, the exceptions 486 00:23:52,266 --> 00:23:54,834 and how we mentioned everyone was talking about the 14 487 00:23:54,834 --> 00:23:56,500 or 15,000 square square feet. 488 00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:59,567 But on the exception part, it's still as clear as mud 489 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:03,934 because when I applied to build a duplex on my small lot, 490 00:24:04,834 --> 00:24:06,100 the exception was that you had 491 00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:08,367 to have two units on it prior. 492 00:24:08,467 --> 00:24:09,834 So I met all the exceptions 493 00:24:10,567 --> 00:24:14,934 but at that time staff thought I didn't meet the exception 494 00:24:14,934 --> 00:24:18,300 because I had three units on my lot and not two. 495 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,500 So I had to pay 2,500 bucks to an attorney 496 00:24:22,367 --> 00:24:25,767 to say plain language is would breed two or more. 497 00:24:26,634 --> 00:24:30,000 So I think that needs to be stated in there two or more. 498 00:24:30,133 --> 00:24:32,700 I don't know what the intent was. Did you even look at that? 499 00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:35,367 Is there an intent not to let someone 500 00:24:35,667 --> 00:24:38,734 who had three units on there make them build one as opposed 501 00:24:38,734 --> 00:24:40,233 to someone who had two units on there? 502 00:24:40,767 --> 00:24:43,066 They can build two. I don't know if you just overlooked that 503 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:47,000 or if there's any sort of reasoning 504 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,700 what you're trying to accomplish by not allowing someone 505 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:54,066 who had three units to build two units 506 00:24:54,567 --> 00:24:56,233 and make enforcing them to build one unit. 507 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,934 Especially when I just heard comment saying that the, some 508 00:25:01,934 --> 00:25:04,734 of the intent was to avoid some overcrowding on these 509 00:25:05,133 --> 00:25:06,000 smaller lots. 510 00:25:06,834 --> 00:25:09,333 So if you had three or four units on a tiny lot 511 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:11,000 and you wanted to tear it down, 512 00:25:12,333 --> 00:25:15,100 building two units would be less crowded than four units. 513 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,133 So yeah, I'm just wondering why that, why 514 00:25:19,133 --> 00:25:21,734 that wasn't clarified and I feel it should be 515 00:25:21,734 --> 00:25:23,066 clarified to two or more units. 516 00:25:23,133 --> 00:25:25,100 I think that would be, you know, 517 00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:27,000 just add two words in there would make it pretty 518 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,033 clear. Thank 519 00:25:29,033 --> 00:25:29,033 - You.Thank you. 520 00:25:35,166 --> 00:25:36,734 Is there anyone else in the room 521 00:25:36,834 --> 00:25:38,066 who would like to provide public comment? 522 00:25:41,066 --> 00:25:43,533 If not, we'll go online. Are there any hands raised online? 523 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,734 No hands are raised. Okay. With none raised. 524 00:25:49,834 --> 00:25:51,100 We will close public comment. 525 00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:57,700 Matt, there were some questions during public comment. 526 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,567 Maybe we could discuss them quickly if that works for you. 527 00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:03,533 - Absolutely. Sure. 528 00:26:04,634 --> 00:26:08,500 - So could you talk about redevelopment and what occurs 529 00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:12,767 and how that applies if you know existing property is say 530 00:26:13,233 --> 00:26:15,500 demoed and rebuilt with this code section? 531 00:26:15,567 --> 00:26:16,567 Yeah, yeah. 532 00:26:17,734 --> 00:26:22,100 - This again, I think Jack was correct. 533 00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:23,333 It's clear as mud. 534 00:26:25,166 --> 00:26:28,467 So two family and two family. Primary, secondary. 535 00:26:28,834 --> 00:26:30,500 Your uses by right 536 00:26:30,567 --> 00:26:34,066 or permitted uses are single family residents 537 00:26:34,066 --> 00:26:35,734 or duplex residents. 538 00:26:37,133 --> 00:26:40,133 Obviously with that annexation that occurred 539 00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:43,867 after being developed under Eagle County zoning, 540 00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:48,266 many many properties were rendered non-conforming. 541 00:26:48,467 --> 00:26:52,934 Right? So preexisting legal, non-conforming structures 542 00:26:52,934 --> 00:26:56,367 and lots of record exist throughout these zone districts. 543 00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:00,100 In the case of a, let's say it's a fourplex 544 00:27:01,133 --> 00:27:03,033 and somebody wants to demo it 545 00:27:03,033 --> 00:27:07,133 and rebuild something else, they, depending on 546 00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:09,567 where they fall with, with that language 547 00:27:09,567 --> 00:27:11,934 and density control, including the exceptions, 548 00:27:12,433 --> 00:27:14,834 would be limited to a maximum of two units. 549 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,266 Unless, let's let's add a little more complexity. 550 00:27:19,333 --> 00:27:21,100 They decide to take advantage 551 00:27:21,266 --> 00:27:25,033 of the westvale multifamily zoning overlay district, 552 00:27:25,033 --> 00:27:28,467 which they can apply to their property 553 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,066 and with the provisions of, of 554 00:27:32,066 --> 00:27:34,634 that overlay district build more density 555 00:27:36,066 --> 00:27:37,133 the way it's written today. 556 00:27:37,634 --> 00:27:41,233 So I'm not sure if everybody followed all the way through 557 00:27:41,233 --> 00:27:44,533 that, but that, that's how that works. 558 00:27:44,634 --> 00:27:47,000 Okay. So if you, you know, depending on your lot size, 559 00:27:47,033 --> 00:27:49,266 depending on you know, what you're tearing down 560 00:27:49,266 --> 00:27:52,834 and what you want to rebuild, again, it, the intent 561 00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:55,734 of those two zone districts is for single family 562 00:27:55,834 --> 00:27:58,300 and duplexes to be built on those lots. 563 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:01,000 Understood. However, recognizing the importance 564 00:28:01,133 --> 00:28:03,834 of keeping a certain number of units in, 565 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,266 in neighborhoods like Westvale, that's why we developed the, 566 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,934 the west, the westvale multifamily overlay. Yeah. 567 00:28:12,367 --> 00:28:14,300 - And I thought I was actually a curious question. 568 00:28:14,367 --> 00:28:17,333 The code doesn't distinguish between casualty 569 00:28:17,567 --> 00:28:18,700 and redevelopment, right? 570 00:28:18,867 --> 00:28:21,000 Say if a, a property is lost through an incident, 571 00:28:21,433 --> 00:28:24,133 - It is covered in the non-conformity 572 00:28:24,266 --> 00:28:26,567 and the, I think Heather just pulled it right up on, 573 00:28:26,567 --> 00:28:28,867 pulled on cue restoration. 574 00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:32,033 I think it's a force majeure act of God, a fire. 575 00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:37,367 - So yeah, it can be restored exactly 576 00:28:37,567 --> 00:28:38,834 the way that it is today. 577 00:28:38,834 --> 00:28:41,567 - Right. Okay. So if a property is lost due to casualty 578 00:28:41,634 --> 00:28:43,867 as opposed to redevelopment, it can be restored 579 00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:45,300 to its previous state? 580 00:28:45,467 --> 00:28:46,767 Yes. Yes. Even if 581 00:28:46,767 --> 00:28:48,367 that's non nonconforming to the code. Yeah, 582 00:28:48,567 --> 00:28:49,734 - Same units. Very 583 00:28:49,734 --> 00:28:50,734 - Helpful. 584 00:28:50,734 --> 00:28:54,533 When it's restored, it's re restored to the dimensions 585 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,700 and number of structures 586 00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:58,100 that were on the property at the time. 587 00:28:58,100 --> 00:28:59,500 That's correct. Yeah. Or the casualty's 588 00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:00,500 - Number of units. 589 00:29:00,767 --> 00:29:02,333 - Yeah, it just would need to have 590 00:29:03,033 --> 00:29:04,533 the current building codes. 591 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:05,734 So it's up to code 592 00:29:06,233 --> 00:29:09,333 but as far as the size dimensions, number of units, all 593 00:29:09,333 --> 00:29:12,367 of those things, it can be in, it's in 594 00:29:12,367 --> 00:29:14,500 that non-conforming section of our code. So. 595 00:29:15,133 --> 00:29:17,934 - Okay. And regarding noticing, my understanding is 596 00:29:17,934 --> 00:29:21,333 that this was noticed to all owners of primary secondary 597 00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:23,100 - Lots. 598 00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:24,734 This was, this was noticed to all property owners 599 00:29:25,133 --> 00:29:26,867 who own property in the two family 600 00:29:27,066 --> 00:29:29,867 and two family primary secondary zone districts. 601 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:32,066 - Okay. Throughout the town. Correct. 602 00:29:32,133 --> 00:29:33,500 How many notices went out 603 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,467 - Between 15 and 1600 ish? 604 00:29:37,634 --> 00:29:40,000 About 1500. About 1500 605 00:29:41,133 --> 00:29:42,233 - And quite a few. 606 00:29:42,467 --> 00:29:44,934 And for clarity for the public, those notices go 607 00:29:44,934 --> 00:29:47,000 to whatever address you have registered 608 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,266 with the Eagle County assessor. 609 00:29:48,867 --> 00:29:50,700 So whatever address is linked 610 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:53,066 to your property ownership record with the assessor, 611 00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:54,767 that is where the notice goes. 612 00:29:55,033 --> 00:29:58,934 Correct. Regarding other ways of noticing, 613 00:30:00,066 --> 00:30:04,266 you know, the only other way would be to follow the agendas 614 00:30:04,266 --> 00:30:05,500 that are published the week 615 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:07,000 before planning commissions 616 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,467 to keep an eye on items, you know? 617 00:30:08,867 --> 00:30:09,867 That's correct. 618 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,033 - And we are, you know, again, as part of the, 619 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,100 the overall code rewrite, looking at other methods 620 00:30:18,433 --> 00:30:20,834 of public notice that might be more effective. 621 00:30:21,133 --> 00:30:24,000 - Yeah. And I assume it's just not feasible to notice 622 00:30:24,433 --> 00:30:28,867 every single owner adjacent to every property 623 00:30:29,533 --> 00:30:32,033 that that's not in that zone district. 624 00:30:32,033 --> 00:30:33,033 Correct? 625 00:30:33,233 --> 00:30:34,367 - I it's feasible. 626 00:30:34,767 --> 00:30:38,834 It's very time consuming resource intensive, 627 00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:40,100 but it's doable. 628 00:30:40,367 --> 00:30:44,266 Okay. We outsourced this one so that we could have a, 629 00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:46,934 a company who does this. So 630 00:30:46,934 --> 00:30:48,333 - You brought in a third party to notice it. So we 631 00:30:48,333 --> 00:30:50,734 - Brought a third party and we gave them the full mailing 632 00:30:50,734 --> 00:30:53,767 list that we generate through GIS and, 633 00:30:54,667 --> 00:30:56,367 - And I do want to note that the assessor 634 00:30:56,367 --> 00:30:57,567 record address is important. 635 00:30:58,033 --> 00:31:00,066 'cause sometimes when people state they didn't receive it, 636 00:31:00,367 --> 00:31:02,767 potentially they have an old address that's linked 637 00:31:02,767 --> 00:31:04,367 to their assessor record and that that's 638 00:31:04,367 --> 00:31:08,333 where it goes legally per those statutes. Yep. 639 00:31:08,734 --> 00:31:12,867 - And again, we're, we're only required to make sure 640 00:31:12,867 --> 00:31:15,567 that goes through the US Postal Service. 641 00:31:16,266 --> 00:31:18,734 We can't control what they do after they get it, 642 00:31:18,867 --> 00:31:20,033 but yes, you're correct. It goes 643 00:31:20,033 --> 00:31:21,033 - To the address. 644 00:31:21,033 --> 00:31:21,734 So if there's an address address on record, 645 00:31:22,133 --> 00:31:23,734 so if there's an address listed as a 646 00:31:24,133 --> 00:31:25,767 property ownership record that doesn't receive 647 00:31:25,867 --> 00:31:28,033 USPS, it would not get there. Correct. 648 00:31:28,133 --> 00:31:29,133 - Yeah. - Okay. 649 00:31:31,233 --> 00:31:33,934 - I think when, when you guys come back 650 00:31:33,934 --> 00:31:37,934 with a vised language in regard to these ordinances, part 651 00:31:37,934 --> 00:31:40,333 of I think what was mentioned maybe by Mr. 652 00:31:40,634 --> 00:31:44,133 Meir was potentially harmonizing language 653 00:31:44,266 --> 00:31:46,000 between the two provisions that were, 654 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,367 we're looking at up here or the three provisions 655 00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:52,367 or provisions with the lot area and site dimensions. 656 00:31:52,367 --> 00:31:54,867 And then you have density control when you have 657 00:31:55,734 --> 00:31:59,000 buildable site area for, for lot dimensions. 658 00:31:59,734 --> 00:32:02,300 That's a lot different seems to me than, 659 00:32:02,734 --> 00:32:06,100 than the square foot reference in density control. 660 00:32:06,667 --> 00:32:11,467 So it might be problematic if you bring building site area 661 00:32:11,767 --> 00:32:16,300 into the density control provision is you might at least, 662 00:32:16,734 --> 00:32:18,767 - Yeah, it's something we absolutely have 663 00:32:18,767 --> 00:32:21,767 to look at is do we, I I think we need 664 00:32:21,767 --> 00:32:23,033 to be consistent either way. 665 00:32:23,133 --> 00:32:26,467 So it's either 15,000 square foot site or lot area 666 00:32:27,367 --> 00:32:29,066 or it's 15,000 square feet 667 00:32:29,066 --> 00:32:31,567 of buildable area contained within that lot 668 00:32:31,834 --> 00:32:34,734 as it's written now and then translating 669 00:32:34,734 --> 00:32:37,233 and transferring that down to the density control. 670 00:32:37,934 --> 00:32:42,100 Is it 14,000, less than 14,000 square feet 671 00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:43,333 of of buildable area? 672 00:32:44,066 --> 00:32:48,567 We assume that's what it is, but it conflicts 673 00:32:49,567 --> 00:32:54,033 - And it, and so it, and aside from the 14,000 square feet 674 00:32:54,033 --> 00:32:55,367 and the 15,000 square feet 675 00:32:55,367 --> 00:32:59,834 and these two provisions, that isn't necessarily convicting, 676 00:32:59,834 --> 00:33:01,066 but it, it is not harmonized. 677 00:33:02,834 --> 00:33:04,567 But when I look at the exceptions 678 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:08,333 as they're currently written, it, it does, you know, 679 00:33:08,467 --> 00:33:12,367 aside from the 14, 15,000 foot issue, what's wrong 680 00:33:12,567 --> 00:33:16,567 with one A, B and C having those exceptions 681 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,133 or exceptions similar to them updated 682 00:33:20,467 --> 00:33:22,266 'cause those, those were struck right. 683 00:33:22,367 --> 00:33:26,100 And, and, and replaced by language that is somewhat similar 684 00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:30,467 but maybe even more stringent than what, than what we, 685 00:33:30,467 --> 00:33:32,867 we've been allowing for the last 10 years. 686 00:33:33,567 --> 00:33:35,867 - Yeah, I I think we agree with that 687 00:33:36,066 --> 00:33:38,033 and that's, that's why we, we are here 688 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:41,000 before you with the tabling request. 689 00:33:41,567 --> 00:33:46,033 You know, I'm not sure about April 1st, 2016, you know, 690 00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:50,000 why that date was chosen. It's 691 00:33:50,066 --> 00:33:51,066 - Probably when it was adopted. 692 00:33:51,133 --> 00:33:54,734 - Yeah. I I believe that's that second Yeah. 693 00:33:54,734 --> 00:33:57,300 Amendment after the one from 2000. 694 00:33:58,367 --> 00:34:00,367 But again, you know, it, 695 00:34:00,467 --> 00:34:03,033 it does seem somewhat arbitrary. Okay. 696 00:34:03,567 --> 00:34:06,133 - Do you, there was public comment that talked about, 697 00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:10,367 say you dropped it below the 14,000 there 698 00:34:11,166 --> 00:34:16,100 concerned about losing eh 699 00:34:16,133 --> 00:34:18,100 u or affordable housing units if there's redeveloped. 700 00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:20,533 Is that still a concern or not really with the development 701 00:34:20,533 --> 00:34:22,700 that's gone on since that time? That's 702 00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:23,700 - A great question. 703 00:34:23,700 --> 00:34:27,066 I think that's a, a question more for the council level, 704 00:34:27,033 --> 00:34:31,834 but I believe given the amount of new 705 00:34:32,634 --> 00:34:34,100 dedicated employee housing 706 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,066 that's currently under construction and, 707 00:34:36,467 --> 00:34:39,867 and already has been constructed, yeah we are 708 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:44,066 catching way up from where we were even in 2016. 709 00:34:44,567 --> 00:34:47,000 - 'cause the, the subdivision piece of it is less 710 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,367 of concern right. 711 00:34:48,467 --> 00:34:51,300 To me, 26 years down the line. Yeah. 712 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:55,033 There's not a whole heck of a lot left to no be subdivided. 713 00:34:56,266 --> 00:34:58,734 No, I, as part of, part of what I'm thinking is, you know, 714 00:34:58,934 --> 00:35:01,300 do you go to 14, do you drag up that study 715 00:35:01,567 --> 00:35:04,834 that was mentioned and see what the distribution 716 00:35:04,834 --> 00:35:07,333 of lot size is out there and Yeah. 717 00:35:07,667 --> 00:35:10,467 Try to capture more with a lower, you know, 718 00:35:10,467 --> 00:35:12,066 square foot of buildable site area. 719 00:35:12,533 --> 00:35:14,033 Yeah, yeah. 720 00:35:14,033 --> 00:35:16,734 You know, in his 14, you know, as opposed 721 00:35:16,734 --> 00:35:19,500 to being arbitrary at 14, make an educated decision if 722 00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:21,333 that data still exists from that study 723 00:35:21,333 --> 00:35:23,100 that was done. So Yeah, 724 00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:26,066 - No that's a, that's a great suggestion and I agree. 725 00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:29,367 I think we should, we should do this in a more scientific 726 00:35:29,567 --> 00:35:33,000 way and, and look at, you know, the average lot size 727 00:35:33,133 --> 00:35:35,567 and kind of where the outliers are. 728 00:35:36,834 --> 00:35:39,266 But I also think, again, given 729 00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:41,133 that these were annexed in largely 730 00:35:41,433 --> 00:35:45,700 after development, that zoning was applied somewhat 731 00:35:48,033 --> 00:35:51,300 just haphazardly if I may not, not not trying to 732 00:35:53,233 --> 00:35:56,734 denigrate any previous planner or staffer, 733 00:35:56,834 --> 00:35:58,867 but yeah, 734 00:35:59,033 --> 00:36:01,934 it just instantly rendered all those properties 735 00:36:01,934 --> 00:36:03,233 non-conforming, so. 736 00:36:03,734 --> 00:36:05,033 - Understood. Okay. 737 00:36:06,867 --> 00:36:08,300 - And there, there was a study done 738 00:36:08,467 --> 00:36:11,333 for the westvale overlay district similar to this, correct? 739 00:36:11,433 --> 00:36:13,500 Yes. And that's how that came to be 740 00:36:14,734 --> 00:36:17,934 to provide some incentives for development, including 741 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,133 the employee housing piece. 742 00:36:20,133 --> 00:36:23,066 Right. And that was an, an important conversation I remember 743 00:36:23,567 --> 00:36:25,367 with the westvale overlay district was 744 00:36:25,367 --> 00:36:27,767 to not lose those employee housing units. 745 00:36:27,867 --> 00:36:31,367 So providing incentives for those smaller lots to redevelop. 746 00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:33,000 - So that study could be a 747 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,033 good reference point right. As you 748 00:36:34,033 --> 00:36:35,700 - Look at it for westvale. Yeah. Yeah. 749 00:36:36,033 --> 00:36:39,500 - I guess that's not the only - Exactly. Unfortunately. 750 00:36:41,467 --> 00:36:43,533 - I mean this, I wanna be really careful 751 00:36:43,734 --> 00:36:46,567 that this isn't a criticism, it's just an observation. 752 00:36:47,166 --> 00:36:51,133 But I'm kind of surprised that this got presented to us 753 00:36:51,734 --> 00:36:54,000 with a staff recommendation for approval 754 00:36:55,133 --> 00:36:57,467 and really good discussion today. 755 00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:01,767 Great public input, but we weren't ready. 756 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,467 - I I will take full responsibility for that. 757 00:37:05,734 --> 00:37:08,100 I don't think we were ready and I'm, 758 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:09,300 - And I'm kind of guessing you're not 759 00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:11,000 gonna be back in two weeks. It's 760 00:37:11,133 --> 00:37:12,133 - Oh heck no. 761 00:37:12,133 --> 00:37:14,533 Yeah. Heck no. So we'd be looking more 762 00:37:15,734 --> 00:37:18,500 second meeting in October I'd say at the earliest. 763 00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:20,467 And I hope Mr. Me's still on 764 00:37:21,467 --> 00:37:25,700 since we will have him closely involved in this. Yeah, 765 00:37:25,734 --> 00:37:27,333 - I'm still on And I think that's good feedback. 766 00:37:29,033 --> 00:37:32,367 I think why Matt went forward with this without was 767 00:37:32,367 --> 00:37:35,767 because of the $1,500, 1500 postcards he had to send out 768 00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:39,467 and we wanted to carry that forward knowing that we, we, 769 00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:42,533 we hit hit a wall here even a week ago. 770 00:37:44,634 --> 00:37:46,000 We didn't want to have to re-notice this. 771 00:37:46,133 --> 00:37:50,066 I know that's expensive but that was good feedback. 772 00:37:50,066 --> 00:37:52,867 Dominic's comments were really insightful. 773 00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:55,033 That's gonna help. I think what we want 774 00:37:55,033 --> 00:37:57,467 to do at the very least is just bring you the same thing 775 00:37:57,467 --> 00:37:58,834 back with less ambiguity 776 00:37:59,166 --> 00:38:00,934 and right now that's not what's in front of you. 777 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,033 So yeah, gimme some time on this one 778 00:38:04,567 --> 00:38:05,634 and we'll get it back to you. 779 00:38:07,367 --> 00:38:10,233 - There's no final questions from commissioners. 780 00:38:12,133 --> 00:38:15,000 - When is, - Sorry, go ahead. I do have a question. 781 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,066 Yep, sure. Does anybody 782 00:38:16,066 --> 00:38:18,734 - Know the approximate cost of noticing this the first time? 783 00:38:20,333 --> 00:38:22,533 - I believe Hannah Whit, 784 00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:26,066 our operations manager would know that 785 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:30,467 - Okay, - I saved money. 786 00:38:30,467 --> 00:38:33,567 Hannah Whitten operations saved money compared 787 00:38:33,567 --> 00:38:34,700 to normal note noticing. 788 00:38:34,867 --> 00:38:38,100 'cause normally we do paper envelope label 789 00:38:38,266 --> 00:38:41,500 and this one was under a dollar per postcard 790 00:38:41,533 --> 00:38:43,100 that you all received. So, 791 00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:45,233 - So maybe 1400 bucks. 792 00:38:45,734 --> 00:38:46,934 Yeah, exactly. Okay. 793 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,734 - But I found a way - Thank you. 794 00:38:51,266 --> 00:38:53,433 - And it did save on staff time so that Yes 795 00:38:53,767 --> 00:38:55,834 that was a a good, we're gonna use this. 796 00:38:55,834 --> 00:38:57,634 I think that's great moving forward I believe. 797 00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:02,100 - And if and if you want it notice again, 798 00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:06,000 we can notice again in which case we'd we'd prefer to 799 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,734 with withdraw the application and reapply. 800 00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:15,467 - I don't know that Heather, I have a procedural question. 801 00:39:15,734 --> 00:39:17,133 In October, our meeting dates 802 00:39:18,734 --> 00:39:21,000 would be the 12th and the 26th. 803 00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:22,467 But the 12th is Columbus day. 804 00:39:22,467 --> 00:39:23,900 Are we meeting on Columbus Day? 805 00:39:24,634 --> 00:39:28,433 - We do believe meet on Columbus Day. I don't remember. 806 00:39:28,634 --> 00:39:30,567 The offices are open, town offices are 807 00:39:30,734 --> 00:39:31,467 - Open. We don't observe. 808 00:39:31,467 --> 00:39:33,867 - Yeah. Might not even be referred 809 00:39:33,867 --> 00:39:35,734 to Columbus Day in this state anymore. That's right. 810 00:39:35,867 --> 00:39:38,934 - It is - Columbus. Stay on my calendar. So Indigenous 811 00:39:38,934 --> 00:39:40,667 - Discovery Day. Discovery day, 812 00:39:40,667 --> 00:39:42,000 - Indigenous person day. 813 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,333 So would you guys be looking for the 12th or the 26th? I 814 00:39:46,333 --> 00:39:48,867 - Think the 26th would be more realistic. 815 00:39:49,133 --> 00:39:51,433 Okay. And again, 816 00:39:51,934 --> 00:39:53,133 - Alright well if there's nothing 817 00:39:53,166 --> 00:39:55,734 - We'll try to have a much tighter cleaner. 818 00:39:55,867 --> 00:39:58,367 - Commissioner Brown, were you going down the line 819 00:39:58,367 --> 00:40:00,000 of erring towards re noticing or 820 00:40:01,433 --> 00:40:03,133 - I regret to say that I am considering 821 00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:05,033 - Moving - In favor of, 822 00:40:05,433 --> 00:40:07,367 - I support that re - To noticing 823 00:40:07,767 --> 00:40:09,133 - It's an important decision. 824 00:40:09,233 --> 00:40:11,266 It affects an as as the 825 00:40:11,266 --> 00:40:12,934 - Postcards demonstrate some, well we've already already 826 00:40:12,934 --> 00:40:14,333 generated that mailing list so that, 827 00:40:14,367 --> 00:40:16,133 I don't think it would be a huge lift for us. 828 00:40:16,166 --> 00:40:18,700 - I don't wanna be disrespectful of the additional work 829 00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:20,867 that it requires, but I think it's an important issue. 830 00:40:20,934 --> 00:40:25,100 And I think based on what I'm hearing today, the present, 831 00:40:25,767 --> 00:40:27,367 the item being presented could change an 832 00:40:27,367 --> 00:40:28,567 awful lot between now and then. 833 00:40:29,266 --> 00:40:30,367 - Yes, a hundred percent. 834 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,333 - So that's my thought. Okay. 835 00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:37,300 - Are there any further questions for commissioners? 836 00:40:38,266 --> 00:40:40,667 - No. - If there are none, we'll move 837 00:40:40,667 --> 00:40:42,033 to final commissioner comment. 838 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,367 I'll just open it up if anyone has final commentary 839 00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:46,900 before we continue this. 840 00:40:49,133 --> 00:40:51,033 - Sir, are we continuing or withdrawing? 841 00:40:51,734 --> 00:40:55,500 - Oh, - Well Mr. Mary is still online. 842 00:40:56,033 --> 00:40:58,033 - I'm counting two to withdraw so far. 843 00:40:58,166 --> 00:41:00,533 So if there's one more then we'll just have Matt withdraw. 844 00:41:00,533 --> 00:41:03,133 We don't need to continue. It might 845 00:41:03,133 --> 00:41:05,100 - Be cleaner commissioner - Or you can continue 846 00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:06,467 - It Jensen and Meg, 847 00:41:06,867 --> 00:41:08,133 - You can just continue it now 848 00:41:08,133 --> 00:41:10,934 and withdraw the application or anything. Correct. Without 849 00:41:10,934 --> 00:41:11,934 - It. 850 00:41:11,934 --> 00:41:13,634 Which is likely, depending on how much 851 00:41:13,767 --> 00:41:15,033 that public notice changes. 852 00:41:15,467 --> 00:41:16,867 'cause that's an important part. 853 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,533 The content, it will be worded differently. So 854 00:41:22,233 --> 00:41:24,000 - I mean - I would, we would likely do that. 855 00:41:24,033 --> 00:41:25,667 - I hate to say I, I would lean towards 856 00:41:26,133 --> 00:41:28,266 re noticing outta respect to the public. So 857 00:41:28,467 --> 00:41:29,467 - I I - Agree. 858 00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:31,100 You know, we, everyone came here today. 859 00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:34,133 There's no decision made today. We didn't act on it. Yep. 860 00:41:34,166 --> 00:41:36,500 So to make sure people are in the loop, I would say we do. 861 00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:38,467 That's my gut for that, that amount of money. 862 00:41:38,767 --> 00:41:40,634 It's, it's, it's a large change. Yes. 863 00:41:41,233 --> 00:41:42,934 - I think, I think we can do that. Mm. 864 00:41:44,133 --> 00:41:46,000 - Yeah and I appreciate the comments today. 865 00:41:46,133 --> 00:41:47,533 Thanks for Dominic for coming up. 866 00:41:47,567 --> 00:41:50,533 And I think Bill and John definitely your comments help. 867 00:41:52,367 --> 00:41:54,467 Yeah, I think the reason Matt wanted to bring it forward 868 00:41:54,467 --> 00:41:55,467 to get the comments knowing 869 00:41:55,467 --> 00:41:58,066 that we had this thing not quite right so that, 870 00:41:58,066 --> 00:41:59,266 that's helpful in drafting. 871 00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:01,266 - So would you prefer that we continue 872 00:42:01,266 --> 00:42:03,100 and then you can choose to withdraw if, 873 00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:04,266 if so, yes. Yes. Okay. 874 00:42:04,634 --> 00:42:05,700 - That would be the preference. 875 00:42:06,133 --> 00:42:07,867 - Continuing or tabling? We 876 00:42:08,066 --> 00:42:09,133 - Continue, I were to table the item 877 00:42:09,166 --> 00:42:12,567 and continue the public hearing until October 26th. 878 00:42:14,867 --> 00:42:16,033 - All right. If there's no, nothing else 879 00:42:16,033 --> 00:42:17,333 further from commissioners. 880 00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:22,066 Mr. Chairman, I move that we table agenda item 3.1 881 00:42:22,033 --> 00:42:23,467 to our next, 882 00:42:23,667 --> 00:42:28,300 our regularly scheduled meeting on October 26th, 2026. 883 00:42:28,433 --> 00:42:31,266 - There's a motion to continue or table. Is there a second? 884 00:42:31,433 --> 00:42:34,867 Second. There's a second. All in favor please say aye. Aye. 885 00:42:35,567 --> 00:42:40,100 Aye. All opposed. Hearing none. That passes unanimously. 886 00:42:40,333 --> 00:42:41,500 I would also like to note that I think 887 00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:42,767 believe we have CJ on line now. 888 00:42:42,767 --> 00:42:46,834 So that was six votes in favor. Thank 889 00:42:46,834 --> 00:42:47,834 - You. 890 00:42:47,834 --> 00:42:48,834 And thank you for your time and consideration 891 00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:50,033 and thanks to the public 892 00:42:50,033 --> 00:42:52,066 for providing feedback. We appreciate 893 00:42:52,066 --> 00:42:53,100 - It. Thank you everyone. Thank you. 894 00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:56,734 - Thank you. - So 895 00:42:56,734 --> 00:43:00,100 that's the only item on our main agenda for today. 896 00:43:00,634 --> 00:43:02,100 The next item is approval 897 00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:04,767 of the minutes from the August 24th meeting. 898 00:43:05,066 --> 00:43:06,467 Is there a motion to approve? 899 00:43:06,867 --> 00:43:08,066 - Mr. Chairman? I move 900 00:43:08,066 --> 00:43:11,000 that we approve the minutes from our regularly scheduled 901 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,100 meeting on August 24th, 2026. 902 00:43:13,533 --> 00:43:16,533 - There's a motion to approve. Is there a second? Second. 903 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,000 There's a second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. 904 00:43:21,233 --> 00:43:23,700 All opposed? It carries unanimously. 905 00:43:25,133 --> 00:43:29,033 And the final item on our agenda's information update on 906 00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:31,500 arrive a it's agenda item 5.1. 907 00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:36,567 Heather, I'll be kicking this over. Tom. I am. Okay. 908 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,033 - I have an easy job today. 909 00:43:42,033 --> 00:43:43,567 Thank you very much. Council members. 910 00:43:44,734 --> 00:43:49,066 Commissioner members, we are here today to present 911 00:43:49,066 --> 00:43:50,033 to you a Ride Vail. 912 00:43:50,667 --> 00:43:53,033 It's the Vail Transportation Center expansion project. 913 00:43:53,867 --> 00:43:56,834 Tom Kasal, director of Public Works DJ Zer 914 00:43:56,834 --> 00:43:58,100 with 42 40 architecture. 915 00:43:59,033 --> 00:44:01,066 This is a project that we've been working on 916 00:44:01,066 --> 00:44:02,100 for about a year and a half. 917 00:44:02,433 --> 00:44:06,934 It was a direct result of Theron Gore, Vail 2045 Mobility 918 00:44:06,934 --> 00:44:08,133 and Transportation master plan 919 00:44:08,133 --> 00:44:10,834 that was adopted in the end of 2024. 920 00:44:11,667 --> 00:44:14,367 One of the, one of the major items that identified was 921 00:44:14,367 --> 00:44:17,533 that the Vail Transportation Center was under capacity, 922 00:44:17,533 --> 00:44:19,533 which is something we've been talking about for 923 00:44:20,133 --> 00:44:21,834 at least in public works for 20 years. 924 00:44:22,166 --> 00:44:24,033 We have a very robust transit system 925 00:44:24,567 --> 00:44:26,834 and particularly with Core Transit coming in 926 00:44:26,867 --> 00:44:30,033 and almost doubling their ridership in the last few years 927 00:44:30,033 --> 00:44:31,100 because of free transit. 928 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,567 They have a lot more buses coming to the Vail 929 00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:37,367 to Vail, the Town of Vail. 930 00:44:37,367 --> 00:44:40,734 We just implemented enhanced transit, which we've increased 931 00:44:41,233 --> 00:44:42,567 transit ridership by 932 00:44:43,266 --> 00:44:47,066 about 20% over the last few months compared to last year. 933 00:44:47,333 --> 00:44:51,700 So there's just real, a real need for increased capacity 934 00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:55,133 as well as safety improvements, aging infrastructure 935 00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:58,467 around the Vail Village Transportation Center as a whole. 936 00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:01,233 So we've been working through this process for the last year 937 00:45:01,233 --> 00:45:03,367 and a half with many presentations to council. 938 00:45:03,467 --> 00:45:05,233 We've also out outreached to the community 939 00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:07,500 and received survey results 940 00:45:07,867 --> 00:45:10,233 and all of those have been incorporated into this project. 941 00:45:10,867 --> 00:45:13,066 And we're here today just really to give you 942 00:45:13,033 --> 00:45:15,033 to up update you on the project. 943 00:45:15,700 --> 00:45:17,266 Maybe some of you have been following it. 944 00:45:17,934 --> 00:45:19,500 We've been presented to council 945 00:45:19,634 --> 00:45:21,367 and to at the community picnics. 946 00:45:21,367 --> 00:45:26,000 We also have a presence on engaged Vail just to make sure 947 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,300 that those who want to be interested can, can be, 948 00:45:28,767 --> 00:45:31,033 but want to make sure that you all are in the loop. 949 00:45:31,266 --> 00:45:32,367 'cause we would, we would expect 950 00:45:32,367 --> 00:45:35,834 that at some point we will be submitting for go 951 00:45:35,834 --> 00:45:38,000 through the PZC Pro process for this project 952 00:45:38,567 --> 00:45:41,700 and really today's to get you up to date. 953 00:45:41,834 --> 00:45:46,066 And if there are any red flags, major concerns, would love 954 00:45:46,066 --> 00:45:47,533 to hear any comments or feedback. 955 00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:49,133 But really this is just to, 956 00:45:49,367 --> 00:45:51,000 to bring you up to speed in that, in the loop. 957 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,000 So with that, I will turn it over. Did you dj? 958 00:45:54,533 --> 00:45:56,100 - Thank you. Do we have a clicker? 959 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,000 - I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to drive. 960 00:45:57,266 --> 00:46:00,867 - Oh, okay. Well string your neck a little. Yeah. 961 00:46:01,433 --> 00:46:05,033 Thank you council members. Glad to be here again. 962 00:46:05,333 --> 00:46:07,567 DJ Zer with 42 40 architecture. 963 00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:11,033 As, as Tom kind of gave a great overview of 964 00:46:11,033 --> 00:46:12,066 where we've been in the process. 965 00:46:12,533 --> 00:46:15,367 We're coming up on the end of schematic design 966 00:46:15,367 --> 00:46:17,333 where we've taken the entire project through. 967 00:46:17,567 --> 00:46:21,834 Its kind of entirety we will be in over the next month going 968 00:46:21,834 --> 00:46:25,500 back to council to start further discussions about future 969 00:46:25,867 --> 00:46:28,300 phasing and breaking this down into components that 970 00:46:29,266 --> 00:46:30,567 move forward at different rates. 971 00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:32,767 Much like some, 972 00:46:32,767 --> 00:46:35,100 some projects in the past like the Alliance at Transit 973 00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:38,500 Center, which was actually broken into three phases 974 00:46:39,233 --> 00:46:43,500 being horizontal, the the bus transit component 975 00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:44,533 and then the welcome center. 976 00:46:44,867 --> 00:46:46,934 So we'll get started. 977 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,000 So I guess kind of starting with just a need 978 00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:52,567 over 6 million visits a year 979 00:46:53,333 --> 00:46:58,100 and growing kind of concerns around slip issues or, 980 00:46:58,166 --> 00:46:59,834 or buses and people. 981 00:47:00,433 --> 00:47:04,000 How do we alleviate some of these conflicts as well as 982 00:47:04,734 --> 00:47:07,066 integrate accessibility and, 983 00:47:08,266 --> 00:47:11,133 and sufficient passenger waiting areas 984 00:47:11,367 --> 00:47:14,100 and really minimize the conflicts between buses and people 985 00:47:14,266 --> 00:47:18,000 and, and as well as in need for four more bus bays. 986 00:47:19,367 --> 00:47:23,467 When we started this really in, in concept, we looked at 987 00:47:23,834 --> 00:47:26,000 what are the opportunities for growth of this site? 988 00:47:26,333 --> 00:47:28,000 We need more room for the transit. 989 00:47:28,634 --> 00:47:31,834 We could either push kind of the frontage road to the north 990 00:47:31,834 --> 00:47:34,467 where we settled rather than going vertically 991 00:47:34,634 --> 00:47:37,133 or pushing to the south into the, the nature 992 00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:41,133 or the open space that's been preserved along East Meadow. 993 00:47:41,433 --> 00:47:45,567 And with that, we've been working mostly Tom and 994 00:47:45,634 --> 00:47:47,033 and us through some coordination. 995 00:47:47,033 --> 00:47:49,634 We cdot on what that process looks like 996 00:47:49,867 --> 00:47:51,767 for shifting the frontage road and, 997 00:47:51,934 --> 00:47:55,100 and growing that, that site to the Town of Vail. 998 00:47:56,767 --> 00:48:00,700 Gonna take a little bit of a snapshot back in time here to, 999 00:48:00,700 --> 00:48:03,033 you know, the idea of the pristine Vail Valley and, 1000 00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:05,100 and not to to come in 1001 00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:07,100 and lecture you all on the history of Vail, 1002 00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:08,567 but just the idea of arrival 1003 00:48:08,934 --> 00:48:11,033 and how this site has evolved over time. 1004 00:48:12,433 --> 00:48:15,100 That being this, this kind of romanticism 1005 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,066 of coming over the mountain and into the valley 1006 00:48:17,367 --> 00:48:21,000 and then finding yourself within this pedestrian scale 1007 00:48:21,066 --> 00:48:24,033 and this scale that was derived from these kind 1008 00:48:24,033 --> 00:48:26,867 of European communities of spe or Zermatt 1009 00:48:27,166 --> 00:48:28,567 and really preserving that 1010 00:48:28,567 --> 00:48:31,834 and how do we make that rival procession 1011 00:48:31,934 --> 00:48:34,700 and process kind of better 1012 00:48:34,834 --> 00:48:38,500 and really have, have what should be a world class arrival. 1013 00:48:38,700 --> 00:48:41,100 And like many ski areas, this started with 1014 00:48:42,634 --> 00:48:45,000 Avon Transit being a parking lot 1015 00:48:45,066 --> 00:48:49,233 and over time evolved for a greater need there to, to really 1016 00:48:49,233 --> 00:48:50,300 what there is today. 1017 00:48:51,634 --> 00:48:55,734 We want to also respect the, the architectural 1018 00:48:58,433 --> 00:49:00,133 scale of pedestrian village 1019 00:49:00,266 --> 00:49:03,867 and the idea of roof forms that gesture down to kind 1020 00:49:03,867 --> 00:49:06,700 of the pedestrian street scape, the materiality 1021 00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:08,467 that's been established in, 1022 00:49:09,100 --> 00:49:11,066 in the architectural language of Vail. 1023 00:49:12,133 --> 00:49:15,266 And so what we kind of started this project 1024 00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:18,934 with is we have a challenge for a need 1025 00:49:18,934 --> 00:49:22,367 for more modern transit growing needs for visitor parking 1026 00:49:22,867 --> 00:49:26,834 and how does that fit into what is the experience of Vail. 1027 00:49:27,467 --> 00:49:31,834 And so we took a a little bit of a view back in 1028 00:49:32,033 --> 00:49:35,300 to kind of 1974 when the garage was originally built 1029 00:49:35,467 --> 00:49:39,500 and there was this concept of a park-like atmosphere 1030 00:49:39,867 --> 00:49:42,533 for arrival and the idea that you took these kind 1031 00:49:42,533 --> 00:49:45,133 of cascading step steps through a parkway 1032 00:49:45,934 --> 00:49:48,767 and there was nature buffering both the north 1033 00:49:48,934 --> 00:49:51,300 and the south of the party garage as well as on top 1034 00:49:51,333 --> 00:49:52,934 and over through time. 1035 00:49:52,934 --> 00:49:57,300 And in the nineties really the, the abundance of concrete 1036 00:49:58,300 --> 00:50:00,133 densified to meet those transit needs. 1037 00:50:00,934 --> 00:50:04,367 The, and really the presence of nature minimized. 1038 00:50:04,433 --> 00:50:07,867 And so how do we, while we continue to solve 1039 00:50:07,867 --> 00:50:10,567 for these transit needs, continue 1040 00:50:10,567 --> 00:50:12,000 to think about integrating nature 1041 00:50:12,133 --> 00:50:16,934 and how one arrives at this special community. 1042 00:50:17,934 --> 00:50:22,033 So in aside from kind of the transit needs and, 1043 00:50:22,033 --> 00:50:26,567 and the need for 17 to 18 buses and large vehicles 1044 00:50:26,567 --> 00:50:28,634 and small vehicles, we have the transit hub. 1045 00:50:28,734 --> 00:50:31,100 We also have what is Vail Village and, 1046 00:50:31,266 --> 00:50:33,500 and kind of the pristine community 1047 00:50:34,367 --> 00:50:37,100 that you find yourself on once you've walked across the 1048 00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:38,700 pedestrian bridge on Bridge Street. 1049 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,066 And then you have this kind of nature buffer 1050 00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:42,500 that the town has preserved. 1051 00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:45,100 And so as we start to think about how we're, 1052 00:50:45,533 --> 00:50:50,066 we're building into it, how do we take that appropriately 1053 00:50:50,233 --> 00:50:54,266 and set one's kind of mindset to a, a world class arrival, 1054 00:50:55,634 --> 00:50:58,066 really from the beginning of of concept, we, 1055 00:50:58,166 --> 00:51:00,500 we ended up reaching out to the community through survey 1056 00:51:00,734 --> 00:51:02,634 and sharing some images 1057 00:51:02,834 --> 00:51:04,700 and seeing what resonated with folks 1058 00:51:05,333 --> 00:51:06,567 as well as council members. 1059 00:51:06,867 --> 00:51:09,700 And where, where some of 1060 00:51:09,700 --> 00:51:12,767 that landed was really a little bit on the, the right side 1061 00:51:12,767 --> 00:51:15,233 of these images of the transit biophilia 1062 00:51:15,233 --> 00:51:19,000 and the idea of kind of presence of nature, warmth 1063 00:51:19,066 --> 00:51:21,066 of wood materials and natural materials. 1064 00:51:21,567 --> 00:51:23,533 But we want to also acknowledge 1065 00:51:23,533 --> 00:51:27,100 and respect the, the architectural character 1066 00:51:27,133 --> 00:51:29,300 that Vail has established through both physics, 1067 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,934 civic architecture, as well as just kind of materiality 1068 00:51:35,033 --> 00:51:37,133 and, and what makes Vail Village special. 1069 00:51:38,567 --> 00:51:42,734 And some of the is is really in the massing of, of two, two 1070 00:51:42,734 --> 00:51:44,000 to three story buildings 1071 00:51:44,066 --> 00:51:46,500 and the way the buildings erode and step back. 1072 00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:49,066 And some of it's in the, the timeless materials 1073 00:51:49,100 --> 00:51:51,266 and some of it's in even kind of roof forms 1074 00:51:51,333 --> 00:51:54,300 and how they gesture with a downward slope. 1075 00:51:54,567 --> 00:51:58,033 And so through this process we created project goals. 1076 00:51:59,133 --> 00:52:01,634 The first creating a welcoming transition 1077 00:52:01,634 --> 00:52:04,300 between the highway garage and Bridge Street. 1078 00:52:04,367 --> 00:52:08,567 And really the idea of how do we screen the highway, the, 1079 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,066 the presence of the garage 1080 00:52:10,233 --> 00:52:12,066 and have this point of arrival that 1081 00:52:12,567 --> 00:52:16,066 that if done well is hopefully an extension of Bridge Street 1082 00:52:16,266 --> 00:52:19,467 to know what exists on the other side of 1083 00:52:19,467 --> 00:52:20,467 that pedestrian bridge 1084 00:52:21,500 --> 00:52:23,734 to celebrate both surrounding natural beauty 1085 00:52:23,834 --> 00:52:25,533 and the cultural identity of Vail. 1086 00:52:26,066 --> 00:52:29,000 Very, very important to keep view corridors 1087 00:52:29,133 --> 00:52:30,700 that have been established, open 1088 00:52:31,066 --> 00:52:35,000 and celebrated following the footsteps of kind of some 1089 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,567 of the, the early planters and zebert 1090 00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:38,934 and, and others like him. 1091 00:52:38,934 --> 00:52:42,033 But really just keeping veil, veil 1092 00:52:42,033 --> 00:52:45,100 and uniquely veil as it relates to scale and color 1093 00:52:45,166 --> 00:52:49,734 and detail and the project should be easily navigatable. 1094 00:52:50,066 --> 00:52:52,033 Understandable, useful and, 1095 00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:55,233 and really the goal is to create a, a world-class arrival 1096 00:52:55,634 --> 00:52:59,100 for this, you know, worldclass town that Vail is, 1097 00:53:00,166 --> 00:53:04,500 this is an overall site plan in, 1098 00:53:04,667 --> 00:53:07,567 let's see if the, the printer will work here. 1099 00:53:07,867 --> 00:53:10,700 I don't, I'll I'll just have to talk through it I think 1100 00:53:11,066 --> 00:53:15,100 and in the past, 1101 00:53:15,033 --> 00:53:18,100 but one of the first big moves we made was 1102 00:53:18,100 --> 00:53:20,834 to separate really the large vehicles from the small ones. 1103 00:53:20,834 --> 00:53:23,934 So all of the large buses are over on the west deck. 1104 00:53:24,166 --> 00:53:27,000 We also tried to really simplify this to 1105 00:53:28,033 --> 00:53:29,300 minimize crosswalks 1106 00:53:29,467 --> 00:53:32,934 and those zones where vehicular passes pedestrian areas 1107 00:53:33,333 --> 00:53:36,000 and that's where you'll see really only two crosswalks 1108 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,266 where pedestrians actually crossed the bus deck 1109 00:53:39,033 --> 00:53:42,867 adding some covered shelter areas and, and snow melt. 1110 00:53:43,033 --> 00:53:47,000 We also ended up shifting the, the shuttle drop off 1111 00:53:47,100 --> 00:53:49,867 and ride share drop off over to the east deck, 1112 00:53:50,033 --> 00:53:53,233 which removed some top, there was some loss 1113 00:53:53,233 --> 00:53:55,133 of parking on the top deck. 1114 00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:58,000 And with that, the project goal is to backfill 1115 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,867 and even expand parking within the site. 1116 00:54:01,367 --> 00:54:05,333 And we've done so by taking some of those programs of 1117 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,066 Vail departmental areas, the food and beverage and, 1118 00:54:09,233 --> 00:54:12,467 and ski museum and moving those programs to the south 1119 00:54:12,467 --> 00:54:14,634 where they can be kind of celebrated 1120 00:54:14,834 --> 00:54:16,066 and open to the community 1121 00:54:16,233 --> 00:54:20,233 and letting the parking structure truly just be 1122 00:54:20,233 --> 00:54:21,266 that out of parking structure. 1123 00:54:22,166 --> 00:54:26,100 - So where it says passenger drop off 1124 00:54:26,133 --> 00:54:28,133 and pickup, that would be 1125 00:54:29,133 --> 00:54:32,066 in this conceptual plan would be where 1126 00:54:32,567 --> 00:54:33,867 Pegasus would drop off 1127 00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:38,066 and other vans would be dropping people off 1128 00:54:38,734 --> 00:54:42,233 as well as me dropping my wife off 1129 00:54:42,233 --> 00:54:44,066 to go skiing or something like that. 1130 00:54:44,667 --> 00:54:46,834 Or is where does that occur? 1131 00:54:48,133 --> 00:54:50,467 - Yeah, so yeah, so all the smaller vehicles, 1132 00:54:50,467 --> 00:54:52,533 which would include shuttle vans would, 1133 00:54:52,533 --> 00:54:53,767 would all be dropping off in 1134 00:54:53,767 --> 00:54:56,834 that loop on the east side only the larger buses, 1135 00:54:57,166 --> 00:55:00,533 which would include Vail, transit, Core Transit, Greyhound 1136 00:55:00,533 --> 00:55:02,133 and Mustang would be on the west. 1137 00:55:02,266 --> 00:55:05,367 - But we have 15 minute parking right now there for people 1138 00:55:05,467 --> 00:55:07,066 to drop off and run in 1139 00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:11,066 and whatever that is all in that pa passenger pickup kind 1140 00:55:11,066 --> 00:55:13,033 of loop around those spots. 1141 00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:16,133 - See, oh, I, I think I might be able to use as mouse. 1142 00:55:16,266 --> 00:55:20,834 So this zone here is kind of 15 minute parking. 1143 00:55:21,367 --> 00:55:24,033 So there is, and then the, the edge 1144 00:55:24,033 --> 00:55:26,033 of curb is really the drop off 1145 00:55:26,033 --> 00:55:29,000 and there would be designated zones between Uber, you know, 1146 00:55:29,066 --> 00:55:32,767 rideshare passenger and hotel shuttles and 1147 00:55:32,767 --> 00:55:35,233 - There would be a clear lane where people can pull by 1148 00:55:35,333 --> 00:55:37,000 - 'em so they not exactly, yes, there, 1149 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,867 there's a continuous lane through. 1150 00:55:39,433 --> 00:55:41,266 So that really what we're trying 1151 00:55:41,266 --> 00:55:44,834 to do is maximize the amount of that pull off lane, 1152 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,033 you know, much like at a airport. 1153 00:55:48,033 --> 00:55:50,266 Thank you if you will. Thank you. Would this allow the top 1154 00:55:50,333 --> 00:55:52,700 deck to function while devo drop off is 1155 00:55:52,834 --> 00:55:54,700 happening at the same time? 1156 00:55:55,767 --> 00:55:58,767 - Yeah, so the, this would, this would, so devo at, 1157 00:55:58,767 --> 00:56:01,033 at this at this point would enter into the same way 1158 00:56:01,533 --> 00:56:04,634 and you would be able to continue on to the east 1159 00:56:04,634 --> 00:56:08,867 through a gate to get, to get into the same locations that 1160 00:56:09,066 --> 00:56:11,300 - I'm just saying is that, you know, right now on a Sunday 1161 00:56:11,300 --> 00:56:14,233 morning whatnot, the top deck is unusable pastor for 1162 00:56:14,233 --> 00:56:16,734 that chunk of time when devo has to shut it down, 1163 00:56:17,533 --> 00:56:19,000 would they be able to use that loop 1164 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,100 and you could keep the whole deck then open or, 1165 00:56:21,367 --> 00:56:22,367 - Right. 1166 00:56:22,367 --> 00:56:24,367 I be, the intent would be that Devo drop off would 1167 00:56:25,233 --> 00:56:27,233 where they were staging for longer, 1168 00:56:27,433 --> 00:56:30,500 longer periods would happen east, east of that gate 1169 00:56:30,500 --> 00:56:32,700 that's east of the, the shuttle drop off. 1170 00:56:32,934 --> 00:56:33,767 - So they would still be 1171 00:56:33,767 --> 00:56:35,100 occurring inside of the parking deck. 1172 00:56:35,133 --> 00:56:36,100 Right. Got it. Okay. 1173 00:56:42,066 --> 00:56:46,533 Okay. And feel free at any time to, to ask questions or 1174 00:56:46,533 --> 00:56:50,533 otherwise I'll, I'll continue on here really, we have a, 1175 00:56:50,834 --> 00:56:53,133 a kind of the arrival transit building 1176 00:56:53,300 --> 00:56:57,066 that is located on the up top deck compositionally. 1177 00:56:57,734 --> 00:57:01,734 We worked with council to really right position the, 1178 00:57:01,867 --> 00:57:04,367 these activators is we're calling them, one 1179 00:57:04,367 --> 00:57:05,734 of them being the museum building, 1180 00:57:05,734 --> 00:57:10,133 which has some event space and cafe as well as the, the food 1181 00:57:10,133 --> 00:57:12,300 and beverage component that has retail 1182 00:57:12,834 --> 00:57:15,867 and as well as welcome center skier services. 1183 00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:18,100 And we'll go into each of these buildings really in, 1184 00:57:18,433 --> 00:57:22,266 in more detail, well really a big idea here is 1185 00:57:22,266 --> 00:57:24,467 that coming from not just a rival, 1186 00:57:24,634 --> 00:57:26,066 but on departure, you come out 1187 00:57:26,066 --> 00:57:27,500 of the pedestrian covered bridge 1188 00:57:28,033 --> 00:57:30,567 and there's presence of hillside and nature 1189 00:57:31,033 --> 00:57:34,867 and cascading steps rather than, you know, 30 feet of stairs 1190 00:57:35,367 --> 00:57:38,000 directly meeting you across the street. 1191 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,066 And that components like escalators are behind screens 1192 00:57:42,100 --> 00:57:45,033 and also doing their share to screen the garage 1193 00:57:45,100 --> 00:57:47,300 and the presence of the parking garage while still having 1194 00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:49,467 these intuitive entries to it. 1195 00:57:50,867 --> 00:57:54,000 However, from a, from an energy standpoint, 1196 00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:59,634 really we're trying to have all of all things lead to kind 1197 00:57:59,634 --> 00:58:01,934 of that covered pedestrian bridge 1198 00:58:01,934 --> 00:58:05,567 and the idea that we're activating this as a public plaza, 1199 00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:09,467 not just as kind of intuitive and clear transit, 1200 00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:13,567 but the idea that you can find entryways intuitively that 1201 00:58:14,233 --> 00:58:16,567 really it, it's energizing this 1202 00:58:16,634 --> 00:58:19,734 and really if, if done successfully being an extension 1203 00:58:19,734 --> 00:58:24,467 of Bridge Street itself, again, locating programs 1204 00:58:24,467 --> 00:58:28,233 that that bring life to the plaza and, and 1205 00:58:28,367 --> 00:58:31,000 and celebrating things like the ski museum as well 1206 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,100 as some community spaces 1207 00:58:33,634 --> 00:58:38,266 and locating a welcome info center over here on the, 1208 00:58:38,333 --> 00:58:41,233 on the east side that also connects to lockers 1209 00:58:41,233 --> 00:58:45,233 and restrooms in the garage itself as well as the, 1210 00:58:45,700 --> 00:58:48,300 and the accessible route that finds its way at kind 1211 00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:51,100 of the top arrival area that, 1212 00:58:51,166 --> 00:58:53,300 that is under this large canopy. 1213 00:58:54,233 --> 00:58:56,934 And again, the, the, the presence of nature 1214 00:58:57,066 --> 00:58:59,133 and how do we, how do we take vegetation 1215 00:58:59,467 --> 00:59:01,300 and make sure that it has a presence 1216 00:59:01,300 --> 00:59:04,033 and finds its way up into that upper deck. 1217 00:59:04,567 --> 00:59:06,734 We know that as we go through this in phases 1218 00:59:06,734 --> 00:59:09,300 and actual submittals, we'll have to work through things 1219 00:59:09,300 --> 00:59:12,500 that are kind of ever, ever changing with 1220 00:59:13,500 --> 00:59:17,000 WWE fire codes and, and other things between existing and, 1221 00:59:17,333 --> 00:59:18,333 and new components. 1222 00:59:18,667 --> 00:59:23,033 But we know that there's kind of a, a goal 1223 00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:26,100 to keep nature and, and the presence of it 1224 00:59:26,033 --> 00:59:28,767 and this set so that it is kind of two 1225 00:59:28,767 --> 00:59:31,300 to three story buildings set up against the garage 1226 00:59:31,367 --> 00:59:35,634 and on the hillside rather than one, one larger structure 1227 00:59:35,900 --> 00:59:37,300 to, to solve the program needs. 1228 00:59:40,066 --> 00:59:43,467 Another component is just intuitive flow 1229 00:59:43,667 --> 00:59:46,033 and we like to say the project is formed by flow 1230 00:59:46,100 --> 00:59:49,500 and so that, you know, buildings were placed to 1231 00:59:49,567 --> 00:59:51,300 to buffer both from the highway 1232 00:59:51,667 --> 00:59:53,634 and catch the flow of people, direct them 1233 00:59:54,133 --> 00:59:55,133 to their destination. 1234 00:59:55,634 --> 00:59:59,233 We, we have this idea of, of Eddie's, which are just these, 1235 00:59:59,300 --> 01:00:03,500 these areas of activation of public plaza be it kind 1236 01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:05,033 of re off the food and beverage 1237 01:00:05,133 --> 01:00:10,000 or small breakout areas to, to create what it wants 1238 01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,533 to be a, a public plaza, 1239 01:00:11,834 --> 01:00:16,100 but also allows for very clear lines of, of transit 1240 01:00:16,834 --> 01:00:21,100 and, you know, moving the, the amount of people needed kind 1241 01:00:21,100 --> 01:00:22,634 of vertically throughout the site. 1242 01:00:24,133 --> 01:00:26,033 I'm gonna take you on a little bit of a tour, 1243 01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:29,133 these will be kind of three dimensional renderings to, 1244 01:00:29,367 --> 01:00:30,834 to explain the different buildings 1245 01:00:30,867 --> 01:00:34,367 and then we'll do some kind of cutaway floor plans mostly 1246 01:00:34,634 --> 01:00:37,333 to show the, the relationship of, of indoor 1247 01:00:37,367 --> 01:00:40,333 and outdoor adjacencies. 1248 01:00:40,634 --> 01:00:43,634 So really this is a view from the frontage road 1249 01:00:44,567 --> 01:00:48,533 wanting this transit arrival to be somewhat iconic 1250 01:00:48,634 --> 01:00:51,767 and welcoming and really the focus to be on it, 1251 01:00:51,934 --> 01:00:55,734 but really understanding that this, this buffer zone 1252 01:00:55,834 --> 01:01:00,233 that exists today is very important in screening the, 1253 01:01:00,333 --> 01:01:02,467 the bus deck or the transit deck on both 1254 01:01:02,467 --> 01:01:03,734 the east and west sides. 1255 01:01:04,133 --> 01:01:06,533 So even though we've moved the frontage road, we've tried 1256 01:01:06,533 --> 01:01:10,767 to maintain a a, a depth of, of vegetation there. 1257 01:01:11,333 --> 01:01:14,934 This next one, I'm gonna magically turn the trees off just 1258 01:01:14,934 --> 01:01:17,634 to explain the bus shelters a little bit better. 1259 01:01:17,867 --> 01:01:22,567 And really the idea here is they're somewhat consistent in 1260 01:01:22,567 --> 01:01:24,367 architectural materiality and, 1261 01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:27,033 and form as the transit center, 1262 01:01:27,033 --> 01:01:31,467 but they're, they're somewhat kind of a secondary thread 1263 01:01:31,467 --> 01:01:33,333 that finds its way through the project. 1264 01:01:36,133 --> 01:01:39,033 Zooming in on those a little bit, they're designed about 1265 01:01:39,033 --> 01:01:41,100 around the ease of central, so 1266 01:01:42,266 --> 01:01:45,934 central circulation really that idea of, of flow. 1267 01:01:46,100 --> 01:01:49,934 We've integrated planters really to be safety mechanisms 1268 01:01:50,367 --> 01:01:51,700 to have people load 1269 01:01:52,133 --> 01:01:54,867 and unload from the buses in the correct locations 1270 01:01:54,900 --> 01:01:58,333 and be a buffer to sit against to rest your skis against 1271 01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:01,734 the seating and standing areas are kind 1272 01:02:01,734 --> 01:02:03,634 of these breakout areas to the side 1273 01:02:03,700 --> 01:02:06,266 and the idea of kind of at ease or 1274 01:02:06,266 --> 01:02:08,734 or areas where you can take a pause 1275 01:02:08,767 --> 01:02:10,066 outside of the circulation. 1276 01:02:10,734 --> 01:02:13,300 And then we're strategically sloping these structures 1277 01:02:13,333 --> 01:02:18,100 to the south to, for both kind of shielding of, of solar, 1278 01:02:18,033 --> 01:02:21,533 but also the, the ability to integrate photovoltaics. 1279 01:02:21,700 --> 01:02:24,033 And that's something we're working through in discussions 1280 01:02:24,033 --> 01:02:26,033 with Holy Cross as some 1281 01:02:26,033 --> 01:02:28,066 of our sustainability goals on the project. 1282 01:02:30,233 --> 01:02:35,033 The transit center itself is very much to be seen from, 1283 01:02:35,133 --> 01:02:36,367 from the Interstate, 1284 01:02:36,467 --> 01:02:39,066 but also a buffer from the Interstate 1285 01:02:39,567 --> 01:02:41,233 to the PEC pedestrian realm. 1286 01:02:41,533 --> 01:02:45,734 There's a large canopy really gesturing to the south and, 1287 01:02:45,734 --> 01:02:48,100 and really for framing 1288 01:02:48,133 --> 01:02:51,066 that important view corridor of Vail Mountain. 1289 01:02:52,500 --> 01:02:54,934 It, it's expressive and heavy timber and 1290 01:02:55,266 --> 01:02:59,300 but also want, want to find importance on detail and, 1291 01:02:59,367 --> 01:03:02,033 and the, the importance of handmade 1292 01:03:02,100 --> 01:03:05,867 and kind of pedestrian scaled details and, 1293 01:03:05,934 --> 01:03:09,233 and both from kind of what is needed with the extent of 1294 01:03:10,333 --> 01:03:13,100 the arrival on the upper deck to as things get closer 1295 01:03:13,133 --> 01:03:17,300 to Bridge Street and East Meadow Drive, we felt that 1296 01:03:17,300 --> 01:03:18,934 that scale should become more 1297 01:03:18,934 --> 01:03:21,367 and more appropriate to, to Vail Village itself. 1298 01:03:22,266 --> 01:03:24,734 This slide is really just taking something 1299 01:03:24,734 --> 01:03:26,934 that maybe looks somewhat complex and, 1300 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,066 and showing how we, we worked through this in, in a manner 1301 01:03:30,133 --> 01:03:35,000 of a simple triangular grid, 1302 01:03:35,066 --> 01:03:37,133 and then lifting the roof where it want to be 1303 01:03:37,133 --> 01:03:40,500 to be gesturing to arrival or to frame views, 1304 01:03:41,133 --> 01:03:44,834 and then integrating light openings below and, 1305 01:03:44,834 --> 01:03:46,066 and the use of skylights. 1306 01:03:46,634 --> 01:03:50,266 This is a, a, a view kind of coming to that top deck and, 1307 01:03:50,634 --> 01:03:53,133 and around the idea of blurring the indoors 1308 01:03:53,133 --> 01:03:56,233 and out integrating elements of craft 1309 01:03:56,266 --> 01:03:57,634 and traditional materials 1310 01:03:57,867 --> 01:04:01,100 and really tailoring the, the vertical slats, 1311 01:04:01,100 --> 01:04:04,367 the timber elements and the roof overhangs to optimize 1312 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,367 sun exposure on all sides of the building. 1313 01:04:10,100 --> 01:04:14,033 This view is if we jump over to what is the east deck 1314 01:04:14,133 --> 01:04:17,467 and that that hotel shuttle 1315 01:04:17,700 --> 01:04:22,000 and ride share drop off, there's this consistent ribbon, 1316 01:04:22,033 --> 01:04:25,700 if you will, of kind of sheltering canopies. 1317 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,767 Really what's important here is the idea that you can see 1318 01:04:28,767 --> 01:04:31,767 through the canopies, you can see through to the mountain 1319 01:04:31,934 --> 01:04:34,133 and, and keeping those few corridors open. 1320 01:04:36,100 --> 01:04:40,233 This is, might be a little bit difficult to understand, 1321 01:04:40,233 --> 01:04:43,066 but it's a, a cross section looking back towards the 1322 01:04:43,066 --> 01:04:46,000 highway, so looking north into the transit center, 1323 01:04:47,166 --> 01:04:51,033 really focusing on the idea of indoor and outdoor seating 1324 01:04:51,133 --> 01:04:53,033 and the relationship between the two. 1325 01:04:55,100 --> 01:04:59,100 We also had a specific program need around the scale 1326 01:04:59,133 --> 01:05:02,000 of transit that we were trying to solve for the amount of, 1327 01:05:03,133 --> 01:05:04,333 of pedestrians 1328 01:05:04,667 --> 01:05:07,567 and how we kind of worked through that in 1329 01:05:08,300 --> 01:05:11,100 what is also a, a building that works 1330 01:05:11,166 --> 01:05:12,700 as kind of a shelter in place. 1331 01:05:12,734 --> 01:05:15,734 So when the highway shuts down, this wants to also be able 1332 01:05:15,734 --> 01:05:19,834 to facilitate a shelter in place during winter elements 1333 01:05:20,133 --> 01:05:22,767 and until kind of authorities are able to, 1334 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,367 to get folks elsewhere. 1335 01:05:26,667 --> 01:05:30,934 This is a, a, a be a bit of a three-dimensional floor plan, 1336 01:05:30,934 --> 01:05:35,634 really just showing the, what, what it feels like to, 1337 01:05:35,734 --> 01:05:37,033 as you walk in the building. 1338 01:05:37,634 --> 01:05:40,467 It's a little bit lounge like over here on the east side 1339 01:05:40,500 --> 01:05:42,066 and, and where it filters into some 1340 01:05:42,066 --> 01:05:43,233 of the departmental areas 1341 01:05:43,500 --> 01:05:46,467 and then it's more transit efficient, 1342 01:05:46,467 --> 01:05:48,333 focused on solving the need for 1343 01:05:49,033 --> 01:05:50,266 standing room and sitting room. 1344 01:05:50,567 --> 01:05:53,066 But really the, the building is designed 1345 01:05:53,100 --> 01:05:56,467 to keep view corridors open to the mountains and, 1346 01:05:57,166 --> 01:06:00,266 and design the seating around that arrangement as well. 1347 01:06:00,834 --> 01:06:05,000 - So the, the prior rendering showed two stories? Yes. 1348 01:06:05,066 --> 01:06:07,367 Something Where is the second level on this? 1349 01:06:07,433 --> 01:06:10,033 What is, what, what is going to occur in that second? 1350 01:06:10,133 --> 01:06:11,500 - So this is the main stair, 1351 01:06:11,500 --> 01:06:14,834 and then if I go to the next slide here, this comes up 1352 01:06:14,867 --> 01:06:16,066 to a pre-function 1353 01:06:16,567 --> 01:06:19,767 and there is this component of conference boardroom, 1354 01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:24,934 and this is intended to be useful for Town of Vail needs 1355 01:06:26,066 --> 01:06:28,734 during kind of the, the normal work hours. 1356 01:06:29,100 --> 01:06:30,700 And it is also subdivided. 1357 01:06:30,834 --> 01:06:33,533 So if Town of Vail only needs it for, 1358 01:06:33,700 --> 01:06:37,700 or a portion of it, it can be used nights and weekends and, 1359 01:06:37,900 --> 01:06:41,100 and when not needed as a subdividing space 1360 01:06:41,100 --> 01:06:42,133 for the community as well. 1361 01:06:42,233 --> 01:06:44,333 And that's about a thousand square feet. 1362 01:06:45,500 --> 01:06:46,867 - And then what, and then we have 1363 01:06:46,867 --> 01:06:48,100 offices, where are the offices 1364 01:06:48,166 --> 01:06:51,066 - For, and then the, the transit offices here, town 1365 01:06:51,066 --> 01:06:55,500 of Avon Transit, a shared break room for the departments 1366 01:06:55,900 --> 01:06:57,133 and, and the bus drivers. 1367 01:06:57,333 --> 01:07:00,567 And then a, a small gym stretching area for, 1368 01:07:00,667 --> 01:07:01,867 for bus drivers as well 1369 01:07:02,133 --> 01:07:03,133 - On that. 1370 01:07:03,133 --> 01:07:04,767 And the elevator stairs that are depicted in those, 1371 01:07:04,767 --> 01:07:07,133 these two renderings, those go down through, 1372 01:07:07,166 --> 01:07:09,333 through the garage to lower levels? 1373 01:07:09,867 --> 01:07:12,533 Or is it just elevator and stairs that serve this 1374 01:07:12,734 --> 01:07:13,734 - Building? 1375 01:07:13,734 --> 01:07:14,233 Just this building? 1376 01:07:14,734 --> 01:07:18,066 So, so this, this stair is actually 1377 01:07:18,033 --> 01:07:21,000 what we'll show here in a couple slides across section, 1378 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,867 but it's actually located north of, just north 1379 01:07:23,934 --> 01:07:25,767 of the existing parking structure. 1380 01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:29,066 And it is only communicating between the two, 1381 01:07:29,333 --> 01:07:30,767 the two levels of this building. 1382 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,266 Okay. The, 1383 01:07:35,567 --> 01:07:39,066 actually the, the public elevators that connect 1384 01:07:39,066 --> 01:07:41,233 to the garage are located just off the corner 1385 01:07:41,266 --> 01:07:42,834 of this, this view here. 1386 01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:47,000 So still under the covered canopy, you can access those 1387 01:07:48,166 --> 01:07:49,734 to all levels of the parking garage. 1388 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:56,133 - Wait, okay. So existing elevators or new 1389 01:07:56,533 --> 01:07:59,066 - Elevators, new elevators - That will go into, 1390 01:07:59,133 --> 01:08:00,567 - But we'll also connect to the parking garage. 1391 01:08:00,767 --> 01:08:04,867 Yes. Where's the Vail Transit offices? Offices now? 1392 01:08:05,734 --> 01:08:10,567 They're currently in, in the parking structure. Okay. 1393 01:08:10,767 --> 01:08:14,100 So that's part of the program that we are relocating 1394 01:08:14,734 --> 01:08:16,634 to give them b better real estate, 1395 01:08:16,634 --> 01:08:19,033 but also to backfill the parking need 1396 01:08:19,033 --> 01:08:22,100 and not have a loss of parking to the project where we've 1397 01:08:23,433 --> 01:08:26,000 separated the, the ride share drop off zone that 1398 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,000 that loss some 40 some top deck spaces. 1399 01:08:29,100 --> 01:08:30,834 So their office space will turn into parking 1400 01:08:31,066 --> 01:08:32,266 space when Correct. 1401 01:08:32,567 --> 01:08:37,100 Got it. Yes. As will the, the museum 1402 01:08:37,033 --> 01:08:39,033 and the, the food and beverage that are there today. 1403 01:08:40,133 --> 01:08:44,033 - Yeah. The, the existing restrooms, the locker room, laina, 1404 01:08:44,834 --> 01:08:46,667 that area, then that's where a lot 1405 01:08:46,667 --> 01:08:49,333 of our transit offices are kind of tuck back behind there. 1406 01:08:49,834 --> 01:08:51,367 Those would all go back to parking. 1407 01:08:53,133 --> 01:08:54,500 It would be shifted in place. 1408 01:08:58,500 --> 01:09:01,300 - I mean, I, you know, it, it's a really beautiful building 1409 01:09:03,333 --> 01:09:07,700 and I, I guess I sit there and think about, it's beautiful. 1410 01:09:08,567 --> 01:09:12,433 The second floor provides back, 1411 01:09:12,700 --> 01:09:14,500 I mean back office space basically, 1412 01:09:15,133 --> 01:09:18,266 and a couple conference rooms, which, 1413 01:09:20,133 --> 01:09:22,634 you know, I'm, I'm trying to think who will utilize, 1414 01:09:23,100 --> 01:09:24,367 I'm gonna leave the Four Seasons 1415 01:09:24,433 --> 01:09:25,533 to come have a meeting here. 1416 01:09:26,133 --> 01:09:28,433 Probably not. You know, 1417 01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,100 and then the grand room, you know, to me it's, it's Shades 1418 01:09:33,100 --> 01:09:36,500 of Union Station without the food and beverage 1419 01:09:37,266 --> 01:09:38,900 because it's in a different, 1420 01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:42,133 and so then I'm saying I got dropped off to 1421 01:09:43,133 --> 01:09:44,734 take Bustang down to Denver 1422 01:09:46,300 --> 01:09:49,133 and I'm waiting for, I got dropped off 1423 01:09:49,133 --> 01:09:50,133 and I'm waiting for an hour. 1424 01:09:52,166 --> 01:09:54,934 Do I, you know, I have my stuff. 1425 01:09:55,500 --> 01:09:58,300 Do I carry my stuff with me over to the restaurant 1426 01:09:58,367 --> 01:10:00,000 to get something or the cafe? 1427 01:10:02,066 --> 01:10:06,300 But you know, it's, it's a beautiful building, 1428 01:10:08,533 --> 01:10:12,033 but in some ways it feels, 1429 01:10:16,734 --> 01:10:19,500 it, it, it's significant. 1430 01:10:19,900 --> 01:10:22,934 It's architectural significance goes beyond 1431 01:10:23,567 --> 01:10:26,100 the underlying need, I guess. 1432 01:10:26,467 --> 01:10:29,066 So I'm, I'm just a more practical person 1433 01:10:29,033 --> 01:10:30,834 where it's beautiful. 1434 01:10:31,166 --> 01:10:34,066 I love it, but, you know, 1435 01:10:34,900 --> 01:10:36,867 very expensive office space. 1436 01:10:38,634 --> 01:10:41,734 - Understandable. - So just a reaction and, 1437 01:10:42,033 --> 01:10:44,133 and going back on your very first slide, 1438 01:10:45,066 --> 01:10:48,367 I was a little stunned by the 6 million visits 1439 01:10:49,500 --> 01:10:53,166 and at that 17,000 a day, 365 days a year. 1440 01:10:54,066 --> 01:10:57,100 And all of us who live here in Vail, when you walk 1441 01:10:57,100 --> 01:11:00,867 through May Vail from May 1st to May 1442 01:11:02,500 --> 01:11:03,533 to Memorial Day, 1443 01:11:04,734 --> 01:11:08,300 I would have a hard time finding even 1500 people, 1444 01:11:08,367 --> 01:11:09,867 let alone 17,000. 1445 01:11:11,133 --> 01:11:15,000 So I just, I, I would just be cautious that 6 million to me 1446 01:11:15,734 --> 01:11:18,467 sounds, it, it's almost, 1447 01:11:19,166 --> 01:11:23,500 to me it's almost defensive that we say that we have 1448 01:11:23,533 --> 01:11:24,634 that many visits. 1449 01:11:26,100 --> 01:11:30,233 - You - Know, I I would probably argue it's, it falls north 1450 01:11:30,233 --> 01:11:32,266 of three, but probably under four. 1451 01:11:32,500 --> 01:11:33,934 So I'm just reacting to it. 1452 01:11:34,033 --> 01:11:35,867 Unless you guys, you know, 1453 01:11:35,867 --> 01:11:38,266 unless you're saying every car in the parking garage brings 1454 01:11:38,333 --> 01:11:42,300 six people when we know that half the cars are employees 1455 01:11:42,300 --> 01:11:45,033 and there's one person, I just don't know how you got 1456 01:11:45,033 --> 01:11:46,000 to the 6 million count. 1457 01:11:46,700 --> 01:11:48,233 - So I can, I can add to that. 1458 01:11:48,266 --> 01:11:52,734 So the 6 million trips in 1459 01:11:52,734 --> 01:11:55,934 and out of that area is bus ridership, 1460 01:11:55,934 --> 01:11:57,100 which we have bus counters. 1461 01:11:57,166 --> 01:11:59,300 Both Core gave us their counts. 1462 01:12:00,133 --> 01:12:03,100 We have our own counts plus all the parking transactions. 1463 01:12:03,567 --> 01:12:06,100 And so we do have survey data on how many, 1464 01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,867 the average number of people that arrive in a vehicle. 1465 01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,033 And it's like, I think it's 2.7, so that 1466 01:12:12,367 --> 01:12:15,767 that's 90% of that, that number. 1467 01:12:19,367 --> 01:12:21,100 - Okay. - Whether they arrive by bus 1468 01:12:21,133 --> 01:12:25,133 or arrive by vehicle, that's all combined. 1469 01:12:27,233 --> 01:12:29,266 - Okay. Just a lot of people, 1470 01:12:30,133 --> 01:12:31,367 - It's, it's a lot of people. 1471 01:12:32,133 --> 01:12:33,900 And the, and just cla the, 1472 01:12:34,133 --> 01:12:35,734 the board room on the second floor, 1473 01:12:35,767 --> 01:12:39,900 so it's a conference room currently VA transit area does, 1474 01:12:39,900 --> 01:12:41,834 does have a con small conference room in the back. 1475 01:12:42,333 --> 01:12:45,033 So that does replace that conference area. 1476 01:12:45,834 --> 01:12:48,367 Plus it was an opportunity to provide additional 1477 01:12:49,100 --> 01:12:52,100 community space that Town Council was looking for, 1478 01:12:52,233 --> 01:12:54,166 to engage those in the community. 1479 01:12:54,166 --> 01:12:56,266 That might be, this might be an area where it could be, 1480 01:12:56,634 --> 01:12:58,033 it's a very cost effective, 1481 01:12:58,233 --> 01:13:00,266 - It's a municipality function. 1482 01:13:00,467 --> 01:13:02,900 - Yeah. It's, it's a municipality function first, 1483 01:13:03,100 --> 01:13:07,300 but then off off hours, weekends, we were hoping 1484 01:13:07,333 --> 01:13:10,266 that community groups could use that similar to 1485 01:13:10,266 --> 01:13:11,533 how the library is used. 1486 01:13:12,033 --> 01:13:13,767 - Do you know what head count offices out 1487 01:13:13,767 --> 01:13:16,166 of the Vail Transit offices right now 1488 01:13:18,367 --> 01:13:21,333 - That include the transit drivers and staff? 1489 01:13:22,133 --> 01:13:24,767 - I guess back like, well you'd say office staff, 1490 01:13:25,100 --> 01:13:26,767 you know, that are there full time? 1491 01:13:26,767 --> 01:13:28,734 - Not not the drivers. - Just not the drivers. 1492 01:13:29,467 --> 01:13:34,066 We probably have four 1493 01:13:34,066 --> 01:13:36,834 or five at any one time in, in that office. 1494 01:13:38,667 --> 01:13:43,100 And then the drivers coming in and out for breaks. So, okay. 1495 01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,500 We have, we have about, we have 70 to 80 drivers, 1496 01:13:47,467 --> 01:13:51,000 - So it's used for four to five full-time staff in office 1497 01:13:51,467 --> 01:13:54,100 with also providing brake facilities 1498 01:13:54,100 --> 01:13:55,667 for drivers coming in and out of shift. 1499 01:13:55,667 --> 01:14:00,367 Right, okay. In a level one, 1500 01:14:00,367 --> 01:14:05,100 there's some, some components of Core Transit office spaces 1501 01:14:05,300 --> 01:14:09,033 as well and, and, and the, the kind of informational 1502 01:14:09,133 --> 01:14:10,133 - Support as well. 1503 01:14:10,367 --> 01:14:12,734 Yeah. So this area combines welcome center 1504 01:14:12,867 --> 01:14:13,867 and transit center 1505 01:14:13,900 --> 01:14:17,000 and core offices are in that number six area. 1506 01:14:17,567 --> 01:14:22,300 They currently have space within the Vail transit area 1507 01:14:23,100 --> 01:14:25,533 as well as welcome center and information 1508 01:14:30,867 --> 01:14:31,500 and restrooms. 1509 01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,367 - This is a, a cross section taken north, south 1510 01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:41,500 and strategically, we, we tried to put the two story portion 1511 01:14:41,567 --> 01:14:44,300 of the new building to the north of, 1512 01:14:44,634 --> 01:14:46,133 of the parking structure itself. 1513 01:14:46,100 --> 01:14:50,100 But really this is, I would say more about helping to show 1514 01:14:50,100 --> 01:14:52,500 that this is within the range of two, two 1515 01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:54,133 to three story buildings and, 1516 01:14:54,066 --> 01:14:57,033 and the idea that these buildings cascade up 1517 01:14:57,667 --> 01:15:01,133 the site rather than one, you know, appearing as one larger 1518 01:15:01,767 --> 01:15:05,000 cohesive, you know, building, if you will. 1519 01:15:07,333 --> 01:15:09,934 - When I look, sorry, when I look at this cross section just 1520 01:15:09,934 --> 01:15:11,533 down at the bottom, and it, it might, 1521 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:13,000 you might talk about this later 1522 01:15:13,033 --> 01:15:16,433 where it says arrive fail on the new welcome center area. 1523 01:15:17,133 --> 01:15:19,634 Yes. Is that protruding out into what's 1524 01:15:19,634 --> 01:15:20,900 currently East Meadow Drive? 1525 01:15:21,734 --> 01:15:25,433 So are we, are we narrowing East Meadow drive this plan? 1526 01:15:27,033 --> 01:15:30,033 - We, so I believe that this, this is 1527 01:15:30,033 --> 01:15:32,000 where it currently narrows down. 1528 01:15:33,100 --> 01:15:37,300 We are trying to keep that the portion of bus 1529 01:15:38,233 --> 01:15:40,367 zone that actually crosses through there as narrow 1530 01:15:40,367 --> 01:15:42,867 as possible to maximize 1531 01:15:43,533 --> 01:15:46,934 and minimized the, the conflict with pedestrian crossings. 1532 01:15:47,266 --> 01:15:50,867 And we did end up taking the, the bus stop 1533 01:15:50,867 --> 01:15:52,700 that was really located about here 1534 01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:57,533 and shifted it to, to the west so that buses crossed 1535 01:15:58,066 --> 01:16:00,100 the pedestrian zone before they stopped. 1536 01:16:00,567 --> 01:16:02,734 And that way you no longer have that conflict 1537 01:16:02,767 --> 01:16:05,233 of is the bus about to leave or did they just get there? 1538 01:16:07,033 --> 01:16:08,533 So a little bit of both. 1539 01:16:08,634 --> 01:16:12,000 We are trying to narrow that down to minimize kind 1540 01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:13,433 of any potential conflict. 1541 01:16:13,867 --> 01:16:15,934 But part of that is we moved the bus stop, 1542 01:16:17,133 --> 01:16:19,033 - That's where I sort of had a question 1543 01:16:19,567 --> 01:16:21,433 to not have it on the east side 1544 01:16:21,433 --> 01:16:23,066 of the arrived Vail welcome center, 1545 01:16:23,367 --> 01:16:25,867 kinda like it is in Lion's head where there's that overhang. 1546 01:16:26,867 --> 01:16:31,100 When I went through the, the slide show, the presentation, 1547 01:16:31,133 --> 01:16:33,000 it seemed to me that having the bus, 1548 01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,433 which I know is further coming in this slide show, 1549 01:16:36,533 --> 01:16:39,066 it's in front of the museum, the ski museum, 1550 01:16:39,166 --> 01:16:43,266 which I feel like is gonna add a lot of cluster perhaps 1551 01:16:43,367 --> 01:16:44,500 and some confusion. 1552 01:16:45,033 --> 01:16:47,533 I I like what you've just said, it makes sense as far 1553 01:16:47,533 --> 01:16:49,767 as when people, you know, want to come down the stairs 1554 01:16:49,867 --> 01:16:51,233 and cross the street, they don't know if a 1555 01:16:51,233 --> 01:16:52,266 bus is coming or going. 1556 01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,033 But if it's on that east side by the arrive vale, 1557 01:16:55,033 --> 01:16:59,433 where there's already a pad that exists in that sense where 1558 01:17:00,100 --> 01:17:03,033 they stop, it's narrower after that 1559 01:17:03,133 --> 01:17:04,934 and there's a gate anyway. 1560 01:17:05,567 --> 01:17:08,767 So maybe that gate would allow people to understand whether 1561 01:17:08,767 --> 01:17:10,266 or not that bus is coming through or not 1562 01:17:10,333 --> 01:17:12,066 and they could coordinate their timing 1563 01:17:12,100 --> 01:17:13,367 that way or something. 1564 01:17:13,567 --> 01:17:16,100 'cause I, I kind of forgot about that gate 1565 01:17:16,100 --> 01:17:18,700 that's there when we talk about this Meadow Drive portion. 1566 01:17:19,433 --> 01:17:22,734 But yeah, as we go further into this presentation, 1567 01:17:23,367 --> 01:17:27,300 when we see where the bus stop is in front of the museum, 1568 01:17:27,567 --> 01:17:29,066 I I felt like that was a little crowded. 1569 01:17:29,834 --> 01:17:32,467 Okay. You know, 'cause it's a narrower portion of the road. 1570 01:17:33,100 --> 01:17:37,100 Sure. But I understand why you did that at this point. 1571 01:17:37,500 --> 01:17:40,266 - So, and one other component to point out is just, 1572 01:17:40,266 --> 01:17:42,533 that's also where the eastbound drop is. 1573 01:17:43,133 --> 01:17:44,700 So like currently you have 1574 01:17:44,700 --> 01:17:46,533 to look at buses in both directions. 1575 01:17:46,834 --> 01:17:51,266 Yes. You know, as a pedestrian crossing part of that working 1576 01:17:51,266 --> 01:17:53,734 with our transit consultant was that can we get all buses 1577 01:17:53,934 --> 01:17:55,266 to the west side Right. 1578 01:17:55,834 --> 01:17:58,333 To kind of alleviate the directions 1579 01:17:58,333 --> 01:18:00,100 that people are looking at vehicles coming. 1580 01:18:00,100 --> 01:18:01,066 - I understand. Yeah. So 1581 01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:06,533 - Just for that, where the arrive, ail sign is an entrance. 1582 01:18:06,567 --> 01:18:08,567 So that, imagine that that's where that 1583 01:18:10,867 --> 01:18:13,233 bus bunker is with the children's tiles. 1584 01:18:13,634 --> 01:18:14,900 That's where that is. So that doesn't, 1585 01:18:15,033 --> 01:18:17,500 that doesn't encroach further than that. 1586 01:18:17,567 --> 01:18:20,634 Th this particular rendering shows that neck down 1587 01:18:20,634 --> 01:18:21,734 where the gate used to be. 1588 01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:23,533 It's currently just a neck down. Right. 1589 01:18:23,734 --> 01:18:26,100 But it shows that one planter on the south side 1590 01:18:26,734 --> 01:18:29,900 and I think in this design we removed the planter on the 1591 01:18:29,900 --> 01:18:31,700 north side so that landscaping 1592 01:18:31,700 --> 01:18:32,900 could be up against the building. 1593 01:18:33,333 --> 01:18:35,500 But that was just a small nuance there. 1594 01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:43,367 - This is the point from the top deck that you start 1595 01:18:43,367 --> 01:18:45,300 to take the, the stairs and escalator. 1596 01:18:45,300 --> 01:18:49,033 Really the, the idea is it's intuitive, you know, 1597 01:18:49,033 --> 01:18:50,266 where you're going from here 1598 01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:55,066 to the pedestrian bridge is very visible, the idea 1599 01:18:55,066 --> 01:18:57,033 of cascading kind of stairs 1600 01:18:57,033 --> 01:19:00,500 and escalators down to break up that what is a, 1601 01:19:00,667 --> 01:19:04,533 a a 30 some feet vertically as you get down 1602 01:19:04,533 --> 01:19:07,133 to this mid-level plaza, this is where we've kind 1603 01:19:07,133 --> 01:19:10,867 of located the, the activator idea of food and beverage 1604 01:19:10,867 --> 01:19:15,500 and having indoor eating areas, 1605 01:19:15,533 --> 01:19:18,066 outdoor eating areas both covered in uncovered 1606 01:19:18,166 --> 01:19:20,133 and great sun exposure 1607 01:19:20,066 --> 01:19:24,367 and views to the, the Southwest to really activate 1608 01:19:25,133 --> 01:19:26,500 the, this zone and, 1609 01:19:26,767 --> 01:19:30,033 and provide, you know, a food and beverage component. 1610 01:19:31,100 --> 01:19:35,033 So on the f and b side, this is gonna be Town of Vail owned 1611 01:19:35,367 --> 01:19:37,900 and leased to a vendor through the 10 avail. 1612 01:19:39,133 --> 01:19:40,900 - That would be the assumption, yes. Okay. 1613 01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,166 Yeah, I mean I think the, the assumption here is, you know, 1614 01:19:44,166 --> 01:19:46,000 this is, you know, lock 1615 01:19:46,100 --> 01:19:49,433 and a lock cantina type plus maybe another type vendor 1616 01:19:50,100 --> 01:19:53,700 or lock cantina much larger all to be determined. 1617 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,033 - Yeah. As you know, you're gonna get is talk about 1618 01:19:57,033 --> 01:20:01,000 affordability because you're gonna be displacing La Cantina 1619 01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:02,634 and whether they come into can this space 1620 01:20:02,634 --> 01:20:06,033 or not, the hot topic in town right now is loss of 1621 01:20:07,066 --> 01:20:11,033 businesses that are affordable and serve local population. 1622 01:20:11,567 --> 01:20:14,934 And so that's gonna be really high visibility on this, 1623 01:20:14,934 --> 01:20:17,867 that ensuring that whatever is in here is an option 1624 01:20:17,867 --> 01:20:22,066 that's affordable to the average local to go in 1625 01:20:22,066 --> 01:20:24,000 and grab a bite on their way out skiing 1626 01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,100 and that they could do in loud cantina right now. So, 1627 01:20:26,333 --> 01:20:28,133 - And I think, and the discussions with council that, 1628 01:20:28,133 --> 01:20:30,367 that would be the intent of this space is 1629 01:20:30,367 --> 01:20:33,467 that obviously the town would be subsidizing Yep. 1630 01:20:33,700 --> 01:20:35,000 The space and you know, 1631 01:20:35,367 --> 01:20:37,634 may maybe it winds up being a similar lease structure 1632 01:20:37,667 --> 01:20:40,934 that La Cantina has, but all to be determined. 1633 01:20:40,934 --> 01:20:44,066 But it wasn't intended that this would be a, 1634 01:20:45,266 --> 01:20:47,266 a local restaurateur coming in here and, 1635 01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:49,867 and putting in a four, four or five star restaurant. 1636 01:20:50,266 --> 01:20:51,834 - You know, I have to say it given local, 1637 01:20:51,934 --> 01:20:54,000 given the recent dialogue in the town. 1638 01:20:54,133 --> 01:20:54,700 So yeah, 1639 01:21:00,900 --> 01:21:02,000 A view from the inside and, 1640 01:21:02,033 --> 01:21:04,467 and really what this has been designed to, 1641 01:21:04,567 --> 01:21:06,934 to gesture towards, towards the mountain and views. 1642 01:21:07,066 --> 01:21:09,467 And hopefully you don't get tired of me saying that. 1643 01:21:11,100 --> 01:21:13,867 So this view's taken down from East Meadow and, 1644 01:21:14,033 --> 01:21:18,467 and this is the kind of the skier services as well 1645 01:21:18,467 --> 01:21:21,000 as welcoming information component down here 1646 01:21:21,100 --> 01:21:22,266 along East Meadow. 1647 01:21:23,133 --> 01:21:27,533 These are small kind of micro retail 1648 01:21:27,634 --> 01:21:30,667 and the idea is that they are either seasonal 1649 01:21:30,667 --> 01:21:35,000 or annual local popups that that Town 1650 01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:36,533 of Vail again owns and, 1651 01:21:36,533 --> 01:21:39,033 and allows local businesses to, to come into here 1652 01:21:39,033 --> 01:21:42,066 and help kind of energize the streetscape. 1653 01:21:42,634 --> 01:21:47,533 But the idea is that, that the entryway is intuitive here. 1654 01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:51,767 And as the buildings get closer to Bridge Street 1655 01:21:51,834 --> 01:21:56,734 or closer to East Meadow, they start to find more alignment 1656 01:21:56,934 --> 01:21:59,867 with kind of detailing and scale of Vail Village. 1657 01:22:00,100 --> 01:22:02,033 So taking what is a, a big transit need 1658 01:22:02,033 --> 01:22:03,767 and breaking it down into kind 1659 01:22:03,767 --> 01:22:06,266 of more appropriate scale of buildings. 1660 01:22:07,567 --> 01:22:10,734 This is a cutaway of, of that first level 1661 01:22:11,166 --> 01:22:13,934 you come in the lobby, this is the welcome information 1662 01:22:14,467 --> 01:22:15,634 kind of lobby zone. 1663 01:22:16,133 --> 01:22:21,000 And then we're currently providing about 200 ski lockers, 1664 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,233 a mix of, of full length and half length. 1665 01:22:24,233 --> 01:22:28,066 There's restrooms, there's your accessible access to, 1666 01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:31,500 to elevators as well as an entry into the garage. 1667 01:22:31,533 --> 01:22:36,367 And then these are those micro retail components. 1668 01:22:38,867 --> 01:22:42,533 And then just talking a little bit about the plaza designed 1669 01:22:42,634 --> 01:22:46,133 to be that the, these buildings are built up against the 1670 01:22:46,133 --> 01:22:49,100 garage screening it, they're built up against 1671 01:22:49,066 --> 01:22:51,367 or on top of the hillside cascading 1672 01:22:52,033 --> 01:22:55,300 and continuing a civic scale 1673 01:22:55,433 --> 01:22:59,533 and traditional materials in a way that are kind 1674 01:22:59,533 --> 01:23:02,467 of reinterpreted to be somewhat contemporary 1675 01:23:02,533 --> 01:23:06,333 but also have a connection to, to history in place. 1676 01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,100 The escalator, it was important that we, 1677 01:23:10,100 --> 01:23:13,333 the escalator be something that's in a component 1678 01:23:13,367 --> 01:23:16,033 to screen the garage but also not be the focal piece 1679 01:23:16,700 --> 01:23:17,734 as well as stairs. 1680 01:23:17,867 --> 01:23:20,734 And the idea that you come out of that pedestrian bridge 1681 01:23:20,734 --> 01:23:23,133 and you see hillside, you see nature, you see 1682 01:23:23,834 --> 01:23:27,567 cascading stairs, but you don't see a, you know, 1683 01:23:27,767 --> 01:23:31,100 a giant escalator or canopy over that. 1684 01:23:31,634 --> 01:23:35,033 And that entries are intuitive, easy to find 1685 01:23:35,133 --> 01:23:38,934 and have familiar components around there. 1686 01:23:38,934 --> 01:23:40,834 And that details are crafted throughout. 1687 01:23:41,266 --> 01:23:45,467 - So the, the escalator is concealed behind it, 1688 01:23:45,634 --> 01:23:47,133 the sla, the slats 1689 01:23:47,266 --> 01:23:48,300 - It is. So it's a, so 1690 01:23:48,500 --> 01:23:51,000 - From the upper level and then people would take a Right, 1691 01:23:51,433 --> 01:23:53,500 they're going down that escalator go to the right 1692 01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:56,500 and then screen to go down and you come out the open area. 1693 01:23:56,867 --> 01:23:58,033 Correct. On the left. Okay. 1694 01:23:58,433 --> 01:24:01,000 - Yep. And some of the decisions going into 1695 01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:04,000 that is making sure that people weren't turning more than 90 1696 01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:07,233 degrees carrying skis or other components. 1697 01:24:08,166 --> 01:24:10,500 So, you know, try not to allow for doubling back, 1698 01:24:10,500 --> 01:24:13,834 having it being sheltered from, from the conditions, 1699 01:24:13,867 --> 01:24:15,834 but still kind of open and exposed. 1700 01:24:19,867 --> 01:24:23,367 This is a view from the really the west side looking east 1701 01:24:23,700 --> 01:24:25,033 down, east meadow. 1702 01:24:25,634 --> 01:24:29,533 And I think one thing that it's helpful to show is just 1703 01:24:29,533 --> 01:24:34,100 how the building scale feels appropriate with, 1704 01:24:34,100 --> 01:24:37,000 with what's happening on the south side of the street in two 1705 01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:40,133 to three story buildings, that that step back 1706 01:24:40,500 --> 01:24:43,867 and the idea that the, the stairs, the main grand 1707 01:24:44,533 --> 01:24:47,734 stairs are very visible, very easy 1708 01:24:47,767 --> 01:24:49,767 to find components. 1709 01:24:50,634 --> 01:24:52,066 And, and again, the presence of, 1710 01:24:52,133 --> 01:24:54,634 of nature in the hillside is a common 1711 01:24:54,700 --> 01:24:56,033 thread throughout the project. 1712 01:24:59,066 --> 01:25:03,066 This is hopefully not too apocalyptic of a view of the, 1713 01:25:03,166 --> 01:25:06,867 the museum building kind of a con contrasty colors. 1714 01:25:07,033 --> 01:25:08,266 But the idea that the, 1715 01:25:08,266 --> 01:25:12,033 the museum building has this vertical element of a stair 1716 01:25:12,467 --> 01:25:15,867 and is a bit of a lantern off of the, the public way. 1717 01:25:15,934 --> 01:25:19,500 And then the building itself becomes simpler 1718 01:25:20,033 --> 01:25:22,133 as it moves, moves to the west. 1719 01:25:22,033 --> 01:25:24,567 And towards the, the open space, 1720 01:25:26,734 --> 01:25:29,100 Here's a, a cross section just showing how that 1721 01:25:30,433 --> 01:25:32,166 building sits up against the existing parking, 1722 01:25:33,133 --> 01:25:37,066 the ca cafe component on the roof that, 1723 01:25:37,066 --> 01:25:38,433 that aligns with the bus stack. 1724 01:25:38,900 --> 01:25:41,133 Level two is an, an event space 1725 01:25:41,367 --> 01:25:45,533 and level three is really the, what's replacing that ski 1726 01:25:45,533 --> 01:25:48,500 and snowboard museum that is in the garage today. 1727 01:25:49,133 --> 01:25:52,500 - The, can you go back? Yep, - There we 1728 01:25:52,500 --> 01:25:53,500 - Go. 1729 01:25:53,500 --> 01:25:54,033 So number five, 1730 01:25:54,066 --> 01:25:56,066 there's a separate elevator tower here 1731 01:25:56,066 --> 01:25:57,133 servicing this building. 1732 01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:00,066 Correct. And are, are, 1733 01:26:00,166 --> 01:26:02,100 are these elevators gonna be accessible 1734 01:26:02,100 --> 01:26:04,133 to people in the garage or is it, 1735 01:26:04,166 --> 01:26:06,734 do I see it's only in the lowest level of the garage? 1736 01:26:07,233 --> 01:26:10,066 You can get in the elevator and then get into 1737 01:26:10,100 --> 01:26:12,300 - The, this three - Levels of the new building. 1738 01:26:12,667 --> 01:26:16,934 - Yeah, this building's elevator is dual sided and, 1739 01:26:16,934 --> 01:26:18,467 and one side is kind of for back of house 1740 01:26:18,467 --> 01:26:20,467 and one for front of house. 1741 01:26:20,467 --> 01:26:24,734 But it only is servicing the three public levels. 1742 01:26:25,066 --> 01:26:27,000 So the, the museum, the event space 1743 01:26:27,367 --> 01:26:32,133 and the, the rooftop, it does not connect. 1744 01:26:32,166 --> 01:26:34,567 This building does not have connections 1745 01:26:34,667 --> 01:26:38,033 besides a back of house loading to the parking itself. 1746 01:26:38,867 --> 01:26:43,000 - Okay. And then the pre-function space, 1747 01:26:44,066 --> 01:26:45,734 is that for the museum 1748 01:26:46,133 --> 01:26:49,467 or is that like another room 1749 01:26:49,467 --> 01:26:51,500 that the town is gonna rent out to people? 1750 01:26:51,634 --> 01:26:53,000 What, what is the pre-function 1751 01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:54,000 - Space? 1752 01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:54,767 It, it is another event space. 1753 01:26:54,867 --> 01:26:59,100 So on level, level one is the museum component 1754 01:26:59,066 --> 01:27:03,066 with a a little bit of expanded program there is the ability 1755 01:27:03,033 --> 01:27:07,000 for the museum to close down and the building lobby and, 1756 01:27:07,133 --> 01:27:08,934 and stair to stale function. 1757 01:27:09,367 --> 01:27:12,867 While I'll jump up to level two or the event space is, 1758 01:27:12,934 --> 01:27:16,467 but the idea that the stair is more of a building component 1759 01:27:16,834 --> 01:27:18,867 and there's an event space on level two. 1760 01:27:19,166 --> 01:27:22,066 So you could have events happening on level two while it's 1761 01:27:22,066 --> 01:27:23,266 off hours for the museum 1762 01:27:23,667 --> 01:27:26,700 and the event space is town controlled or museum controlled. 1763 01:27:28,100 --> 01:27:30,266 - So it would be town controlled. Okay. 1764 01:27:31,266 --> 01:27:34,133 I think, I think the, the discussions where that's synergy 1765 01:27:34,133 --> 01:27:36,000 that could happen between a museum 1766 01:27:36,066 --> 01:27:38,500 and an event, you know, something having, having an, 1767 01:27:38,834 --> 01:27:40,700 some sort of event in the museum building 1768 01:27:40,867 --> 01:27:42,700 or it's coupled with the museum. 1769 01:27:42,834 --> 01:27:45,033 So you could say, oh let's start in the museum 1770 01:27:45,133 --> 01:27:47,333 or start in the event space and go go to the museum 1771 01:27:47,467 --> 01:27:49,233 and they can work, work together. 1772 01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:53,467 And, and, and for that matter the cafe too, which is, 1773 01:27:53,467 --> 01:27:55,367 which would be on top, but, 1774 01:27:55,567 --> 01:27:56,700 but the intent would be 1775 01:27:56,700 --> 01:27:58,100 that this would be a town owned building 1776 01:27:59,266 --> 01:28:01,700 and Town Avon town owned spaces. 1777 01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:04,133 - And I think like the food 1778 01:28:04,133 --> 01:28:06,333 and beverage, the cafe would be town owned 1779 01:28:06,500 --> 01:28:09,033 and a tenant would occupy that space. 1780 01:28:10,367 --> 01:28:14,734 - So the, the prep kitchen for the event spaces upstairs 1781 01:28:16,634 --> 01:28:21,233 - It, we have a, I'll jump back down a little bit of a back 1782 01:28:21,233 --> 01:28:25,066 of house plating kitchen for the event space. 1783 01:28:25,300 --> 01:28:28,166 So that could be catered from an outside venue, 1784 01:28:28,500 --> 01:28:31,533 it could be something coming from the cafe above. 1785 01:28:32,266 --> 01:28:35,100 I think it really just depends on how this ultimately gets 1786 01:28:35,500 --> 01:28:37,934 utilized, but tried to program this flexible 1787 01:28:38,333 --> 01:28:39,533 for a flexible use. 1788 01:28:42,634 --> 01:28:44,467 - And this would be similar to the grand view. 1789 01:28:44,834 --> 01:28:46,767 This would, this would actually have more space 1790 01:28:47,700 --> 01:28:51,634 than the grand view would both capacity and prep space. I'm 1791 01:28:51,634 --> 01:28:54,133 - Thinking if somebody wanted to rent this space 1792 01:28:54,133 --> 01:28:58,066 to do a wedding, you know, so you got married somewhere, 1793 01:28:58,233 --> 01:29:00,834 you came here, food 1794 01:29:00,834 --> 01:29:04,867 and beverage delivery, all the pieces, you know, 1795 01:29:04,867 --> 01:29:09,066 when it's on a different floor it, it gets more complicated. 1796 01:29:09,367 --> 01:29:10,934 - Right. And I, I think the intent 1797 01:29:10,934 --> 01:29:14,033 that this would be one floor you would have back 1798 01:29:14,033 --> 01:29:18,233 of house space for relative to the, 1799 01:29:18,367 --> 01:29:21,033 for catering relative to the size of the event space. 1800 01:29:21,667 --> 01:29:25,233 If, if you, I mean we were, this is all talking out loud. 1801 01:29:25,233 --> 01:29:27,100 Well if you wanted to have something more, 1802 01:29:28,066 --> 01:29:30,934 more than just catering, do you then coordinate 1803 01:29:30,934 --> 01:29:32,867 with the museum cafe and do something different 1804 01:29:33,300 --> 01:29:34,567 that you have the ability to do that. 1805 01:29:34,567 --> 01:29:36,700 But it wouldn't be, wouldn't be necessary. 1806 01:29:38,100 --> 01:29:39,266 - And this is programmed, 1807 01:29:39,500 --> 01:29:41,934 I believe it's about 2100 square feet, 1808 01:29:42,066 --> 01:29:44,233 so roughly about a hundred people from a 1809 01:29:45,066 --> 01:29:46,133 banquet style layout. 1810 01:29:46,333 --> 01:29:49,100 Like you see here more if you're doing more kind 1811 01:29:49,100 --> 01:29:50,934 of true lecture or something like that. 1812 01:29:58,033 --> 01:30:00,100 And then the, the, the rooftop cafe. 1813 01:30:00,300 --> 01:30:03,533 And really the, the idea was to keep, to keep views open, 1814 01:30:03,934 --> 01:30:07,033 have an intuitive arrival that and, 1815 01:30:07,066 --> 01:30:08,667 and kind of roof design 1816 01:30:08,734 --> 01:30:12,734 that fits into the surrounding architecture of the transit 1817 01:30:13,033 --> 01:30:17,333 and bus shelters as well as just this intuitive arrival 1818 01:30:17,367 --> 01:30:18,634 that you, you walk into 1819 01:30:18,667 --> 01:30:23,300 and it has great views both down valley and up valley 1820 01:30:24,100 --> 01:30:26,767 and great indoor and outdoor spaces. 1821 01:30:29,133 --> 01:30:31,166 And you called it the Museum cafe again, 1822 01:30:31,166 --> 01:30:32,500 is it a separate vendor? 1823 01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:35,033 It's completely, that's not associated with the museum 1824 01:30:35,166 --> 01:30:36,834 or is it a museum run cafe? 1825 01:30:37,500 --> 01:30:38,634 - No, I I we would, 1826 01:30:38,834 --> 01:30:40,500 I would think it would be a separate vendor. Okay. 1827 01:30:40,700 --> 01:30:43,834 - Yeah. Sorry. And I may have done that. 1828 01:30:43,834 --> 01:30:46,333 We're referring to it as the museum building, but the, 1829 01:30:46,533 --> 01:30:50,133 but really the museum is one, one level of this. 1830 01:30:50,533 --> 01:30:52,734 I'm just getting as is museum being gifted a 1831 01:30:52,734 --> 01:30:54,834 giant three story building? No. Okay. 1832 01:30:55,100 --> 01:30:57,166 - The, the intent is to replace the museum for 1833 01:30:57,166 --> 01:30:58,767 what they have with a little bit more space. 1834 01:30:58,867 --> 01:30:59,867 - So you're behind, you're behind this 1835 01:31:00,066 --> 01:31:01,867 - Building and the other two floors would be million cash. 1836 01:31:05,066 --> 01:31:07,266 They could all work together but they don't have to. Got it. 1837 01:31:10,567 --> 01:31:13,266 - I mean I, you know, I'm, I'm sitting there thinking more 1838 01:31:13,266 --> 01:31:15,300 from a business perspective on the arrival. 1839 01:31:15,467 --> 01:31:20,100 The cafe is perfectly loaded, located on the departure less, 1840 01:31:21,100 --> 01:31:23,900 you know, it will be, it'll be a thriving business from 1841 01:31:24,367 --> 01:31:27,266 seven in the morning till one or two. 1842 01:31:28,133 --> 01:31:29,000 - That is the hope. 1843 01:31:32,667 --> 01:31:34,066 And that's, that's all. 1844 01:31:34,066 --> 01:31:35,900 We're happy to answer any questions 1845 01:31:35,900 --> 01:31:38,834 unless Tom there was anything you wanted to elaborate on? 1846 01:31:38,934 --> 01:31:41,033 - Yeah, I mean if you, if you have any questions 1847 01:31:41,066 --> 01:31:43,834 or confirmations then I could let you know kind of 1848 01:31:43,834 --> 01:31:45,767 what next steps are and where we're headed from here. 1849 01:31:46,667 --> 01:31:48,133 But we can take any questions on 1850 01:31:48,133 --> 01:31:49,567 the building. So one of the questions 1851 01:31:49,767 --> 01:31:53,834 - On the very first slide, does the transit center arrival, 1852 01:31:54,867 --> 01:31:57,100 I was trying to figure out does that include 1853 01:31:58,033 --> 01:32:01,900 the frontage road adjustment when you were showing it So 1854 01:32:01,900 --> 01:32:05,033 we're gonna get more space from CDOT or whatever 1855 01:32:05,834 --> 01:32:06,834 - Right. 1856 01:32:06,834 --> 01:32:09,467 That that is, that is a critical component of this project. 1857 01:32:09,533 --> 01:32:12,066 - Yeah, I mean when I saw that I, it makes sense 1858 01:32:12,066 --> 01:32:13,133 but you have to get that 1859 01:32:13,133 --> 01:32:14,700 to make this whole thing work. Right. 1860 01:32:15,066 --> 01:32:17,133 - And so we've had multiple meetings with cdot. 1861 01:32:17,634 --> 01:32:19,033 I mean the, the good news is this is 1862 01:32:19,033 --> 01:32:20,266 for transportation purposes. 1863 01:32:20,500 --> 01:32:23,867 Yeah. So they're amenable, generally amenable to it. 1864 01:32:25,066 --> 01:32:27,500 We're kind of going through that process now of, you know, 1865 01:32:27,500 --> 01:32:29,000 what is the process, you know, 1866 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:31,066 if we start now it's probably a two year process 1867 01:32:31,066 --> 01:32:34,066 before we actually, you know, acquire the land. 1868 01:32:34,066 --> 01:32:36,033 So we're kind of going down that path. 1869 01:32:36,066 --> 01:32:37,333 What do they need to see? 1870 01:32:38,100 --> 01:32:40,567 Make sure there's no future impacts with the future 1871 01:32:42,166 --> 01:32:43,667 assumptions for I 70. 1872 01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:46,734 So we're, we're, we're we're working through those 1873 01:32:46,767 --> 01:32:48,433 with CDOT as we speak 1874 01:32:48,734 --> 01:32:50,367 - And just in phasing. 1875 01:32:51,066 --> 01:32:56,066 Yep. So it seems to me that the transit center bus drop off 1876 01:32:57,100 --> 01:33:00,734 all that parking garage stuff, the, 1877 01:33:01,033 --> 01:33:03,066 the passenger pickup drop off lane 1878 01:33:03,767 --> 01:33:05,667 is a phase one kind of approach. 1879 01:33:06,333 --> 01:33:07,567 - Probably even broken down even more. 1880 01:33:08,700 --> 01:33:10,166 I think, I think, you know, initially, 1881 01:33:10,734 --> 01:33:12,233 you know it'd be great a phase one, 1882 01:33:12,734 --> 01:33:15,233 the first thing we'd have to do is move the front road so 1883 01:33:15,233 --> 01:33:17,900 that, that could be a phase of its own just phase one 1884 01:33:18,433 --> 01:33:20,567 prepping for making the room for accommodations. 1885 01:33:20,567 --> 01:33:22,033 What we'd like to include into that 1886 01:33:23,066 --> 01:33:25,100 would be adding additional bus capacity, 1887 01:33:25,100 --> 01:33:27,133 which may not look exactly like this, 1888 01:33:27,634 --> 01:33:30,133 but as an interim solution saying well we can move the 1889 01:33:30,133 --> 01:33:33,100 frontage road at the same time we can gain a few bus bays 1890 01:33:33,066 --> 01:33:37,233 to, to deal with the immediate needs of additional bus bays. 1891 01:33:38,033 --> 01:33:38,934 That could be So can we do 1892 01:33:38,934 --> 01:33:40,000 that could be a phase that can you, 1893 01:33:40,100 --> 01:33:41,734 - Can that happen in the next five years? 1894 01:33:42,934 --> 01:33:47,000 - We, we are hoping in the next, to start in 2028. 1895 01:33:47,700 --> 01:33:48,867 - So the next two years, yeah 1896 01:33:48,867 --> 01:33:53,533 - We have funding, we have funding from CDOT specifically 1897 01:33:53,567 --> 01:33:54,700 for improvements here. 1898 01:33:55,900 --> 01:33:59,900 We have Core Transit going to, is trying to move a grant 1899 01:33:59,900 --> 01:34:01,734 that they have towards this project. 1900 01:34:02,533 --> 01:34:06,100 The town of a has a placeholder for some money here. 1901 01:34:06,066 --> 01:34:11,000 So you know, we would say we probably have $10 million 1902 01:34:11,066 --> 01:34:12,900 or so now and the, the goal will be, 1903 01:34:12,900 --> 01:34:14,100 well we could move front road 1904 01:34:14,100 --> 01:34:17,033 and probably gain some additional immediate bus capacity 1905 01:34:17,266 --> 01:34:19,033 that wouldn't change the welcome center 1906 01:34:19,033 --> 01:34:21,133 or the transit center that would stay, 1907 01:34:21,266 --> 01:34:22,900 it's a good first step stay as is. 1908 01:34:22,900 --> 01:34:24,367 But it, but it gets us towards that. 1909 01:34:24,533 --> 01:34:26,433 I mean certainly we'd love to see this just happen 1910 01:34:28,033 --> 01:34:30,467 but we are looking at other, you know, the other pieces of 1911 01:34:30,467 --> 01:34:32,667 that funding mechanisms. 1912 01:34:32,667 --> 01:34:35,700 Obviously the multimillion dollar question, how you pay 1913 01:34:35,700 --> 01:34:40,166 for this and right now 1914 01:34:40,533 --> 01:34:43,533 two ma other than the existing dollars we have now two 1915 01:34:43,834 --> 01:34:47,500 potential major streams would be a Downtown Development 1916 01:34:47,500 --> 01:34:51,533 Authority that has been in discussions, you know, how 1917 01:34:51,533 --> 01:34:53,500 that incorporates with the West Line said as 1918 01:34:53,500 --> 01:34:54,900 that eventually moves forward, 1919 01:34:55,066 --> 01:34:57,867 is there one downtown from basically Fort Park all the way 1920 01:34:57,867 --> 01:35:00,767 to West Lionhead and dollars eventually 1921 01:35:01,300 --> 01:35:03,300 fund improvements in each particular area, 1922 01:35:03,300 --> 01:35:05,734 whether it's Bell Village Lionhead or West Lionhead. 1923 01:35:06,734 --> 01:35:09,700 The other funding mechanism that I recently came out 1924 01:35:10,900 --> 01:35:15,533 from Colorado is there's a new Senate bill 65 1925 01:35:15,834 --> 01:35:18,533 for transit and housing where we would, 1926 01:35:19,533 --> 01:35:21,767 if awarded it's, it's a grant 1927 01:35:21,900 --> 01:35:26,100 but it is a, a grant that is specific to transit and housing 1928 01:35:26,667 --> 01:35:29,066 and you would, you would gain tax, 1929 01:35:29,100 --> 01:35:30,900 it's basically tax increment finance on 1930 01:35:31,033 --> 01:35:32,100 Cal Colorado sales tax. 1931 01:35:32,734 --> 01:35:35,133 So you would gain the incremental sales tax, 1932 01:35:37,734 --> 01:35:39,500 you know, more, more to come on that one. 1933 01:35:39,533 --> 01:35:41,066 We are waiting for additional information 1934 01:35:41,066 --> 01:35:42,500 but it has passed waiting. 1935 01:35:42,567 --> 01:35:44,367 - I mean I, when I come back, I mean I commend you 1936 01:35:44,467 --> 01:35:46,734 that first step of getting the frontage road 1937 01:35:47,367 --> 01:35:49,133 and enhancing the bus drop off. 1938 01:35:49,734 --> 01:35:51,033 It's the highest priority. 1939 01:35:51,066 --> 01:35:54,834 But, but the fact that you've looked at a broader plan 1940 01:35:55,300 --> 01:35:59,266 and that first step fits beautifully into that plan. 1941 01:36:00,100 --> 01:36:03,567 I think, I mean I compliment you guys for thinking that way 1942 01:36:03,900 --> 01:36:05,734 - And I think, you know, just thinking about phases, 1943 01:36:05,734 --> 01:36:08,300 our initial phase, let's say if we, if we had, 1944 01:36:08,300 --> 01:36:12,667 if we're sitting on $30 million, you know we might say, 1945 01:36:12,667 --> 01:36:15,767 well the initial phase initially was we could do the bus, 1946 01:36:15,867 --> 01:36:17,066 the Western bus area, 1947 01:36:17,066 --> 01:36:19,100 we could do the eastern passenger drop off. 1948 01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:21,634 We would leave the existing welcome 1949 01:36:21,634 --> 01:36:22,834 center exactly where it is. 1950 01:36:22,867 --> 01:36:24,133 And that would function in the interim 1951 01:36:24,300 --> 01:36:26,567 as both the transit center and welcome center granted a 1952 01:36:26,567 --> 01:36:28,066 little tight for all those functions 1953 01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:31,166 and obviously move the furniture. 1954 01:36:31,166 --> 01:36:34,000 That would be kind of a, a phase one ideal. 1955 01:36:34,767 --> 01:36:38,166 And then hopefully a few years down the road then we would 1956 01:36:38,567 --> 01:36:41,634 build those, build those outbuildings which would then allow 1957 01:36:41,667 --> 01:36:43,500 for the, the transit building itself. 1958 01:36:43,734 --> 01:36:45,500 'cause I ideally two 1959 01:36:45,667 --> 01:36:49,767 and four are built so that we can then build building one 1960 01:36:49,767 --> 01:36:51,166 because all those uses in two 1961 01:36:51,166 --> 01:36:53,867 and four are underneath are within 1962 01:36:53,900 --> 01:36:55,066 the parking structure today 1963 01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:58,900 - And controlled by Vail and have flexible uses. 1964 01:36:59,133 --> 01:37:02,567 So yeah, and just getting to the point of separating bus 1965 01:37:03,033 --> 01:37:06,433 traffic from car traffic is a big win out there 1966 01:37:07,066 --> 01:37:08,767 honestly from where it functions today. 1967 01:37:09,033 --> 01:37:12,300 - Right. And that was a goal is just separate at least large 1968 01:37:12,300 --> 01:37:14,767 vehicles from smaller vehicles there would still be 1969 01:37:14,767 --> 01:37:16,166 constraints because you are on top 1970 01:37:16,166 --> 01:37:17,734 of parking structure in this area. 1971 01:37:17,934 --> 01:37:21,100 We, you know, currently the very large hotel shuttles don't 1972 01:37:21,100 --> 01:37:22,667 go go up on the, the train station 1973 01:37:22,667 --> 01:37:23,867 center Theron Gore to Gold Peak. 1974 01:37:24,233 --> 01:37:28,834 We would expect that would, would remain, you know, 1975 01:37:28,900 --> 01:37:30,667 it'd be nice to have even a third location 1976 01:37:30,667 --> 01:37:33,367 where you have all your large buses, your shuttle buses 1977 01:37:33,500 --> 01:37:35,033 and your skier drop off. 1978 01:37:35,700 --> 01:37:37,900 But you know that the site is pretty 1979 01:37:37,900 --> 01:37:39,133 constrained so that would be unlikely. 1980 01:37:39,233 --> 01:37:41,634 And you know, doing the, 1981 01:37:41,734 --> 01:37:43,333 you know we have the traffic studies on 1982 01:37:43,333 --> 01:37:45,066 how many shuttle buses come at one time. 1983 01:37:46,900 --> 01:37:49,266 I think that would, it will provide enough, it will provide 1984 01:37:50,033 --> 01:37:52,100 a decent amount of room for both shuttle buses 1985 01:37:52,500 --> 01:37:54,033 and for passenger drop off. 1986 01:37:54,100 --> 01:37:57,033 Passenger drop off right now is kind of a bit hectic. 1987 01:37:57,166 --> 01:37:59,634 It's a handful of parking spaces that have to back out 1988 01:38:00,100 --> 01:38:03,000 to get in and out, which become, which is very difficult. 1989 01:38:03,667 --> 01:38:05,700 And one, one comment on Devo, 1990 01:38:07,266 --> 01:38:09,266 'cause we've been working on this for so long. 1991 01:38:09,266 --> 01:38:11,266 One of the things we talked about, you know, with Devo, 1992 01:38:11,934 --> 01:38:15,266 you know, it does back up onto the frontage road this by, 1993 01:38:15,266 --> 01:38:18,767 with this design and now provides a longer queue area to get 1994 01:38:18,867 --> 01:38:22,300 to the area in front of just past just east of five. 1995 01:38:22,834 --> 01:38:25,066 So that we could probably get a little bit more, more 1996 01:38:25,066 --> 01:38:26,300 of the vehicles, probably not all 1997 01:38:26,500 --> 01:38:28,233 but more of the vehicles off the frontage road 1998 01:38:29,900 --> 01:38:32,567 and have a longer queue into 1999 01:38:33,300 --> 01:38:35,000 a staging area for devo. 2000 01:38:36,100 --> 01:38:38,333 Assuming Devo stays exactly where it's, 2001 01:38:39,133 --> 01:38:41,133 - How many parking spaces are gonna be 2002 01:38:42,367 --> 01:38:43,634 lost on the upper level, 2003 01:38:44,333 --> 01:38:45,834 - Roughly - About 40. 2004 01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:49,000 And we feel that we can backfill those within the 2005 01:38:49,133 --> 01:38:51,834 constraints of the garage completely understand 2006 01:38:51,834 --> 01:38:52,867 that there's, you know, 2007 01:38:52,900 --> 01:38:55,634 reasons why those are preferred on the top level 2008 01:38:55,767 --> 01:38:58,000 with height clearances and things like that. 2009 01:38:58,166 --> 01:39:00,367 - Yeah, I was going to make the comment, you know, 2010 01:39:00,367 --> 01:39:03,266 I don't look at, I like to park on the upper deck 2011 01:39:03,266 --> 01:39:05,867 but I get really annoyed by parking on the upper deck 2012 01:39:06,734 --> 01:39:08,767 'cause it's more convenient than parking in the garage. 2013 01:39:10,834 --> 01:39:12,767 I can say this 'cause Tom didn't build the garage, 2014 01:39:13,100 --> 01:39:15,033 but the, the interior of our garage is terrible 2015 01:39:15,133 --> 01:39:16,634 and it takes forever to get through it. 2016 01:39:16,734 --> 01:39:18,767 And so I prefer, you know, if I'm going to the village, 2017 01:39:18,834 --> 01:39:20,133 I'll park on the upper deck if I can. 2018 01:39:21,100 --> 01:39:24,367 That being said, it becomes very difficult 2019 01:39:24,367 --> 01:39:26,300 to park on the upper deck nowadays 2020 01:39:26,300 --> 01:39:30,066 because of all of the ridiculous oversized vehicles 2021 01:39:30,066 --> 01:39:32,867 that have been manufactured 2022 01:39:32,934 --> 01:39:35,000 by body manufacturers in this country. 2023 01:39:35,133 --> 01:39:38,000 - Sprinter van plus bike rack sticking out. Yeah. 2024 01:39:38,667 --> 01:39:40,467 - The parking structure was not designed for that. 2025 01:39:41,100 --> 01:39:43,000 - And you're like literally weaving through things 2026 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:45,066 to make sure you don't hit any body 2027 01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:46,367 and you have to go, it is slow. 2028 01:39:46,934 --> 01:39:50,100 So is it, it doesn't really seem like there's 2029 01:39:50,100 --> 01:39:52,700 that opportunity because there are physical constraints 2030 01:39:52,734 --> 01:39:54,066 with the walls and whatnot, 2031 01:39:54,100 --> 01:39:57,300 but I don't know if there's any way to rectify 2032 01:39:57,300 --> 01:39:58,333 that problem or not. 2033 01:39:58,767 --> 01:40:01,367 'cause you do have to stick those oversized vehicles when 2034 01:40:01,367 --> 01:40:02,734 there are visitors in town. 2035 01:40:02,734 --> 01:40:04,100 They have to park up there, 2036 01:40:04,033 --> 01:40:06,000 but I don't think there's a way 2037 01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:10,000 to lengthen parking spaces anyway to, to, 2038 01:40:10,100 --> 01:40:12,300 to be more accommodating to those. 2039 01:40:12,433 --> 01:40:13,533 - Unfortunately not 2040 01:40:13,533 --> 01:40:16,533 unless we obviously took down the parking structure. 2041 01:40:16,900 --> 01:40:19,100 - Yeah, okay. That was just a question I had 2042 01:40:20,867 --> 01:40:22,567 while we're looking at, we didn't see any 2043 01:40:22,567 --> 01:40:23,634 renderings at five. 2044 01:40:23,900 --> 01:40:25,734 Aren't there offices over in 2045 01:40:25,734 --> 01:40:27,634 that building right now? Transit offices? 2046 01:40:28,033 --> 01:40:29,634 - So that's the parking office 2047 01:40:29,700 --> 01:40:32,100 and it's one, it's one office 2048 01:40:32,133 --> 01:40:33,767 that has the parking supervisor. 2049 01:40:33,767 --> 01:40:35,033 They have, if you ever go in there, 2050 01:40:35,033 --> 01:40:36,533 they have all the computer screens and everything 2051 01:40:36,634 --> 01:40:38,100 and they're on and they're taking in lots 2052 01:40:38,100 --> 01:40:39,100 and lots of dollars. 2053 01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:43,066 So that is an area that we identified 2054 01:40:43,066 --> 01:40:44,867 as there needs to be additional space. 2055 01:40:44,934 --> 01:40:47,834 So really what five is, is just a, a small expansion of 2056 01:40:47,834 --> 01:40:49,934 that existing space to accommodate 2057 01:40:50,166 --> 01:40:52,634 - And those still be elevators that go in 2058 01:40:52,634 --> 01:40:54,266 that location that go up and down. 2059 01:40:54,900 --> 01:40:57,000 So right now we have elevator there 2060 01:40:57,100 --> 01:41:00,367 and then way down the road there'll be elevators 2061 01:41:01,367 --> 01:41:05,233 to right near where the passenger drop off is. Yep. 2062 01:41:05,233 --> 01:41:07,934 - Right, right, right near this green space near too. 2063 01:41:08,233 --> 01:41:11,634 - And there will still be the internal elevators to the west 2064 01:41:11,667 --> 01:41:14,033 of there that exists today. 2065 01:41:14,033 --> 01:41:15,233 - There will, there will not. Yeah. 2066 01:41:15,233 --> 01:41:18,033 The the western Oh there someplace banks. It's about here. 2067 01:41:18,367 --> 01:41:21,634 And so we're, we're replacing that. Yeah. 2068 01:41:21,634 --> 01:41:23,266 That that elevator bank goes away. 2069 01:41:23,567 --> 01:41:25,033 This one comes in new 2070 01:41:25,033 --> 01:41:27,100 and then we, we keep that one near five. 2071 01:41:27,634 --> 01:41:30,133 - So there'll only be two elevators going 2072 01:41:30,367 --> 01:41:31,367 up and down. Correct. 2073 01:41:31,667 --> 01:41:35,000 - Coors? - Yep. Okay. Alright. 2074 01:41:35,567 --> 01:41:38,100 - And you know, I mean one of all those, 2075 01:41:38,033 --> 01:41:41,000 the conversations are what is the life 2076 01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:44,000 of our parking garages And in this plan, if you, 2077 01:41:44,066 --> 01:41:46,133 - It's always been the first question. So yeah, 2078 01:41:46,567 --> 01:41:50,634 - If you were gonna develop all this, which is, you know, 2079 01:41:50,934 --> 01:41:52,300 I'm, I'm gonna take a wild guess 2080 01:41:52,433 --> 01:41:54,934 and call it not something north of 50 million. 2081 01:41:56,300 --> 01:41:58,533 What, what can we do to extend the life 2082 01:41:58,700 --> 01:42:02,033 of the parking garage through, you know, 2083 01:42:02,533 --> 01:42:05,100 another 25 plus years after this? 2084 01:42:05,433 --> 01:42:07,467 - So, and that's what we're actively doing right now. 2085 01:42:08,500 --> 01:42:11,500 We council's identified major maintenance money 2086 01:42:11,500 --> 01:42:13,000 and that's why you see all the construction 2087 01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:14,100 going on now with the village. 2088 01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:15,467 And that is, that is truly maintenance. 2089 01:42:15,467 --> 01:42:17,533 It's a almost 50-year-old structure 2090 01:42:18,166 --> 01:42:22,333 and it needs significant maintenance rehab 2091 01:42:23,100 --> 01:42:24,533 and that's what we're doing currently. 2092 01:42:24,700 --> 01:42:28,266 And we will be doing significant maintenance 2093 01:42:28,266 --> 01:42:29,333 for the next few years. 2094 01:42:30,133 --> 01:42:32,367 And then even beyond that, it would take more than 2095 01:42:32,367 --> 01:42:33,567 what we did the first 50 years 2096 01:42:33,634 --> 01:42:35,100 to keep it alive for another 50 years. 2097 01:42:35,233 --> 01:42:37,767 So, so we have a structural report 2098 01:42:37,867 --> 01:42:40,000 and we've been working with the same structural engineers 2099 01:42:40,100 --> 01:42:43,033 for a long time on the, our both our structures to identify 2100 01:42:43,066 --> 01:42:46,133 and, you know, end of life versus what do we need to do. 2101 01:42:47,233 --> 01:42:48,333 So the goal is really, 2102 01:42:49,100 --> 01:42:52,033 we're looking at providing enough maintenance dollars in 2103 01:42:52,033 --> 01:42:55,100 rehab to make that structure last 50 years plus, 2104 01:42:55,634 --> 01:42:57,066 I mean it's all concrete structure. 2105 01:42:57,066 --> 01:42:59,834 There's plenty of concrete structures all over the nation 2106 01:42:59,867 --> 01:43:01,533 that have lasted way longer than 50 years. 2107 01:43:01,634 --> 01:43:04,266 Yeah. So that, that, that's our goal 2108 01:43:04,266 --> 01:43:06,634 because certainly taking that whole structure down 2109 01:43:06,634 --> 01:43:08,767 and bringing it back up, not only the dollars 2110 01:43:09,900 --> 01:43:14,567 but the feasibility of doing that is, is some, is something 2111 01:43:14,567 --> 01:43:17,567 for another time. Not our time 2112 01:43:17,867 --> 01:43:20,567 - When you're, when you're dead Yeah. Tired. 2113 01:43:21,100 --> 01:43:24,433 - Yes, exactly. So, so that, that is how arrived Vail is. 2114 01:43:24,433 --> 01:43:26,834 Certainly, it's, it's the, it's the vision 2115 01:43:26,900 --> 01:43:28,066 for the next 50 years. 2116 01:43:28,100 --> 01:43:30,066 Yeah. So we, we've gotten through 50 years. 2117 01:43:30,266 --> 01:43:32,266 It's, it's, it's tired, it's old. 2118 01:43:32,700 --> 01:43:34,667 Let's, let's keep the parking structure whole, 2119 01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:36,500 let's keep it a lot, let's keep it working 2120 01:43:36,500 --> 01:43:38,033 and functioning for another 50 years 2121 01:43:38,500 --> 01:43:41,567 and let's create a new vision for what the next 50 years 2122 01:43:41,667 --> 01:43:43,667 of entering Vail Village would be. 2123 01:43:44,266 --> 01:43:48,033 - Good presentation. Yeah. - My guess, my guess was 70 bill 2124 01:43:48,367 --> 01:43:49,367 - 70 million. 2125 01:43:49,433 --> 01:43:50,867 No, I was, I was being polite. 2126 01:43:52,634 --> 01:43:53,934 - So, so Bill's low bid, 2127 01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:55,934 you're hired, we'll we'll start tomorrow. 2128 01:43:56,033 --> 01:43:57,033 Yeah. 2129 01:43:59,033 --> 01:44:01,000 - Did you have a schematic budget on it or no? 2130 01:44:01,433 --> 01:44:05,934 - Yeah. Yes, but so we're in the a hundred million probably, 2131 01:44:06,533 --> 01:44:10,266 probably plus as you keep going, but you know, 2132 01:44:10,467 --> 01:44:12,233 I think there, there's opportunities here, there. 2133 01:44:12,500 --> 01:44:15,533 It's a trans transit and transportation facility. 2134 01:44:16,867 --> 01:44:17,934 There are grants out there. 2135 01:44:17,934 --> 01:44:20,100 We did apply for a build grant for, for 2136 01:44:21,634 --> 01:44:23,700 $25 million this year. 2137 01:44:23,700 --> 01:44:26,467 We didn't get it. We'll get a debrief on why, but it, 2138 01:44:26,467 --> 01:44:28,867 but it ticks all the boxes for those types of things 2139 01:44:28,900 --> 01:44:30,867 and those are the things that we'll be kind of chasing 2140 01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:34,767 as they come, or transit facilities, you know, this, 2141 01:44:34,867 --> 01:44:37,834 this new Colorado state funding potential 2142 01:44:38,133 --> 01:44:39,867 and a Downtown Development Authority. 2143 01:44:40,100 --> 01:44:41,734 So all those things, if we can get them all 2144 01:44:41,734 --> 01:44:44,000 to come together at the right time, then maybe this happens. 2145 01:44:44,500 --> 01:44:45,934 But at least like you said, 2146 01:44:46,033 --> 01:44:49,066 phase one is the functionality core has reached out to me 2147 01:44:49,100 --> 01:44:51,033 and said we're concerned. 2148 01:44:51,367 --> 01:44:54,266 What are we gonna do when we throw show up with more buses 2149 01:44:55,033 --> 01:44:56,500 than we even have now? 2150 01:44:56,533 --> 01:44:58,033 Because their 10 year plan 2151 01:44:58,333 --> 01:45:00,066 and immediate future is more buses 2152 01:45:00,166 --> 01:45:02,033 to more frequency for more ridership. 2153 01:45:02,033 --> 01:45:03,033 And that's what's working. What 2154 01:45:03,033 --> 01:45:03,834 we're trying for, it's working. 2155 01:45:04,667 --> 01:45:08,100 - So I mean, you mentioned the computer screens that count, 2156 01:45:08,100 --> 01:45:11,066 the parking revenue, which, you know, 2157 01:45:11,266 --> 01:45:14,266 I know over the history of the town has been used 2158 01:45:14,467 --> 01:45:16,867 to cover other bonds, et cetera. 2159 01:45:17,467 --> 01:45:20,100 But you know, I, I look at 2160 01:45:20,100 --> 01:45:22,333 that revenue source is pretty significant 2161 01:45:23,133 --> 01:45:24,133 and to say 2162 01:45:24,133 --> 01:45:27,133 that parking rates are gonna stay at the exact dollar amount 2163 01:45:27,133 --> 01:45:29,300 they are now for the next 50 years isn't 2164 01:45:29,333 --> 01:45:30,834 pragmatic or realistic. 2165 01:45:30,834 --> 01:45:35,100 Right. So at what point can parking revenues 2166 01:45:35,900 --> 01:45:39,100 be committed to this project versus supporting other 2167 01:45:40,100 --> 01:45:42,567 projects that, that have happened 2168 01:45:42,700 --> 01:45:44,734 or potentially could happen in the community? 2169 01:45:45,133 --> 01:45:46,934 - And I think, you know, ultimately that's up 2170 01:45:46,934 --> 01:45:51,867 to Town Council and I think, you know, there's a lot 2171 01:45:51,867 --> 01:45:54,000 of momentum for this project from a council side, 2172 01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:56,767 obviously it would be a great grand new vision for, for Vail 2173 01:45:57,133 --> 01:46:00,767 and how does it compete with the other other needs 2174 01:46:00,834 --> 01:46:04,533 of the Town of Vail and you know, whether we, you know, go 2175 01:46:04,667 --> 01:46:07,266 for bonds or however the funding comes together. 2176 01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:10,367 You know, our goal is to say, is to get to the point 2177 01:46:10,367 --> 01:46:12,934 where we're, we're ready to move forward with a, 2178 01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:15,867 with a vision that we have and phase one is attainable 2179 01:46:16,233 --> 01:46:18,467 and we can attain that in the next couple of years 2180 01:46:19,367 --> 01:46:23,233 and get that done and keep chasing funding 2181 01:46:23,700 --> 01:46:25,834 or desire for the other pieces of the puzzle. 2182 01:46:27,500 --> 01:46:28,300 - I think this is great. 2183 01:46:31,667 --> 01:46:33,100 - Alright, any questions? 2184 01:46:33,100 --> 01:46:34,133 Very much appreciate your time. 2185 01:46:35,033 --> 01:46:36,433 - The only other comments that I have 2186 01:46:38,133 --> 01:46:42,734 since y'all asked Yeah, you know, I, 2187 01:46:42,900 --> 01:46:44,066 I'll echo Bill's comments. 2188 01:46:44,433 --> 01:46:46,066 I, I think the building is beautiful. 2189 01:46:46,166 --> 01:46:47,867 The, the proposed welcome center. 2190 01:46:49,033 --> 01:46:51,834 I am concerned about the size of the building 2191 01:46:53,934 --> 01:46:58,533 as well as the size of the museum building, you know, at 2192 01:47:00,066 --> 01:47:03,700 what's arguably the building's, you know, the, the, 2193 01:47:03,834 --> 01:47:06,233 at least the location where the museum building is 2194 01:47:07,033 --> 01:47:11,233 that's gonna overwhelm that A three A which is a, 2195 01:47:11,533 --> 01:47:13,767 just a straight up three story facade 2196 01:47:15,066 --> 01:47:16,500 is gonna overwhelm that space. 2197 01:47:16,734 --> 01:47:18,500 I think the massing may be a little much 2198 01:47:19,934 --> 01:47:23,000 should look at options as to stepping that back. 2199 01:47:25,100 --> 01:47:29,500 You know, it might cut into the, the planned event space 2200 01:47:30,133 --> 01:47:31,300 there on the second floor. 2201 01:47:31,367 --> 01:47:34,300 Obviously the museum is a priority for this town. 2202 01:47:35,066 --> 01:47:37,367 I don't know if an another event space is, 2203 01:47:39,066 --> 01:47:42,300 but I don't like the the look of that. 2204 01:47:42,634 --> 01:47:46,533 I think it's gonna be almost overwhelming to that area. 2205 01:47:46,700 --> 01:47:50,033 And you know, you pointed out one of the first size what 2206 01:47:50,100 --> 01:47:53,367 that area that is now a natural buffer looks terrible. 2207 01:47:53,734 --> 01:47:56,700 And, and it could be, you know, it, it could be 2208 01:47:56,700 --> 01:47:58,834 so much more, but it is a green space 2209 01:47:59,100 --> 01:48:02,000 and it, it's not building and concrete 2210 01:48:02,433 --> 01:48:04,734 and, you know, white slats 2211 01:48:04,734 --> 01:48:08,300 and I will say the design with those kind of slats, 2212 01:48:08,300 --> 01:48:11,100 wooden slats, number one, I doubt whether 2213 01:48:11,133 --> 01:48:14,133 that's a timeless design for over the next 50 years. 2214 01:48:14,233 --> 01:48:17,133 And number two, it actually makes it look bigger. 2215 01:48:18,333 --> 01:48:21,000 So I I would be very concerned about the massing in 2216 01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:25,734 that area as well as, you know, in, in building two, 2217 01:48:28,433 --> 01:48:30,533 you know, again I like the concept and, 2218 01:48:30,634 --> 01:48:33,567 and the general designs, they look great, 2219 01:48:34,367 --> 01:48:37,834 but that deck may be oversized and it's, 2220 01:48:37,834 --> 01:48:40,500 and it, what I'm concerned about is it seems like 2221 01:48:40,500 --> 01:48:42,000 that building footprint is, 2222 01:48:42,133 --> 01:48:44,066 is protruding in the East Meadow drive 2223 01:48:44,867 --> 01:48:48,000 and is that necessary along with you have, you know, 2224 01:48:48,000 --> 01:48:52,066 what's been designated is two popup retail spaces, 2225 01:48:52,900 --> 01:48:54,233 you know, is that wasted space? 2226 01:48:54,367 --> 01:48:56,033 Is that space that's ever gonna be used? 2227 01:48:56,567 --> 01:48:59,734 What shops are you gonna be able to put there 2228 01:48:59,734 --> 01:49:01,533 that are gonna thrive economically? 2229 01:49:02,867 --> 01:49:04,033 You're not in Vail Village. 2230 01:49:04,233 --> 01:49:06,367 Are people really gonna stop and shop there? 2231 01:49:07,767 --> 01:49:10,533 I i, I think that that's something that needs 2232 01:49:10,533 --> 01:49:12,033 to be debated a little bit more. 2233 01:49:12,500 --> 01:49:15,066 Maybe the size, you know, you take away a little bit of 2234 01:49:15,066 --> 01:49:16,033 that outdoor space 2235 01:49:17,667 --> 01:49:19,700 and you take away those retail spaces, 2236 01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:24,033 you can reconfigure a building that's a little less large 2237 01:49:25,266 --> 01:49:29,066 but still serves the purpose of having some 2238 01:49:29,767 --> 01:49:31,867 restaurant space, some gathering space 2239 01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:36,367 and it just being a much nicer building in general. 2240 01:49:36,867 --> 01:49:37,867 So those are my comments. 2241 01:49:39,133 --> 01:49:42,266 - Thank you. Anybody else comments? 2242 01:49:42,533 --> 01:49:44,533 Only thing I had was just 2243 01:49:45,166 --> 01:49:48,033 the office space in building one kind of has echoes to me 2244 01:49:48,033 --> 01:49:52,266 of the Ford Park discussion where, you know, 2245 01:49:52,266 --> 01:49:55,266 make sure we're not overburdening civic infrastructure 2246 01:49:55,300 --> 01:49:59,066 with offices that may not necessarily need to be there 2247 01:49:59,066 --> 01:50:01,233 or at least, you know, maybe need to be right sized. 2248 01:50:01,934 --> 01:50:05,533 I mean I counted on the, I counted like 10 desk space 2249 01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:09,634 spaces on that upstairs rendering. 2250 01:50:10,100 --> 01:50:13,000 Not including the separate conference area, conference room, 2251 01:50:13,867 --> 01:50:15,867 the one that the small conference room off to the side 2252 01:50:15,867 --> 01:50:17,233 that doesn't count the two bigger ones. 2253 01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:19,700 I think having this break room space 2254 01:50:19,700 --> 01:50:21,000 for bus drivers is critical. 2255 01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:22,700 They work hard for us and having good space 2256 01:50:22,867 --> 01:50:24,867 but for them is important. 2257 01:50:26,133 --> 01:50:30,100 But I would guess that 30 to 40% 2258 01:50:30,133 --> 01:50:31,100 of the floor area in 2259 01:50:31,100 --> 01:50:33,934 that building just looking at it is office space. 2260 01:50:34,867 --> 01:50:37,533 And is that approximately right you think? 2261 01:50:40,433 --> 01:50:42,867 I think it's probably a little less than that just 2262 01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:45,166 'cause there's so much transit waiting area, 2263 01:50:45,333 --> 01:50:46,700 but completely understand 2264 01:50:46,734 --> 01:50:47,934 the comment where you're coming from. 2265 01:50:48,033 --> 01:50:51,300 Yeah. And if you know, hey this is an expensive project, 2266 01:50:51,500 --> 01:50:54,233 if we need to right size that to bring it into it's doable. 2267 01:50:54,266 --> 01:50:56,500 I think that's important to do. Sure. 2268 01:50:57,133 --> 01:50:57,900 - Absolutely. Thanks. 2269 01:51:03,066 --> 01:51:08,000 Okay, I'm up. I would echo the impulse 2270 01:51:08,033 --> 01:51:10,900 to right size office and potentially conference space. 2271 01:51:11,900 --> 01:51:14,133 I heard a lot of uncertainty about 2272 01:51:14,133 --> 01:51:16,000 who might be using the conference space. 2273 01:51:16,133 --> 01:51:18,100 I'm not saying we don't need it, you guys know more about 2274 01:51:18,100 --> 01:51:20,467 that than I do as I speak today. 2275 01:51:21,133 --> 01:51:24,934 But there, it feels to me like some unallocated, 2276 01:51:25,333 --> 01:51:27,367 maybe somebody will want this conference space. 2277 01:51:28,166 --> 01:51:31,000 We're making a big commitment to, to acquire 2278 01:51:31,033 --> 01:51:34,700 that space without a fairly clear vision on 2279 01:51:34,700 --> 01:51:36,734 who would want it and how it would be used. 2280 01:51:39,867 --> 01:51:44,767 I really like what I experienced as sort of the breakdown 2281 01:51:45,266 --> 01:51:49,000 in the affect of this building into smaller chunks 2282 01:51:49,066 --> 01:51:51,133 as you descend into Vail Village. 2283 01:51:51,667 --> 01:51:53,934 I'm very sensitive to losing the green space here. 2284 01:51:56,734 --> 01:52:01,367 This is much more palatable than I would've guessed 2285 01:52:03,433 --> 01:52:06,166 provided that the, that the remaining landscaping is really 2286 01:52:06,300 --> 01:52:08,000 robust and really attended to. 2287 01:52:09,667 --> 01:52:11,900 I agree with John that right now what's on the west side 2288 01:52:13,767 --> 01:52:15,734 is undervalued and under attended 2289 01:52:16,033 --> 01:52:19,266 and under cared for. 2290 01:52:20,266 --> 01:52:21,767 I think this could, could be better, 2291 01:52:21,867 --> 01:52:25,000 but we need to be really diligent about maintaining a robust 2292 01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:27,166 feeling of green space there. 2293 01:52:27,500 --> 01:52:29,900 It can be concentrated but it needs, it needs to be there. 2294 01:52:34,133 --> 01:52:36,767 And then slide 57, 2295 01:52:39,166 --> 01:52:43,533 I believe that those, there's a, there's a demarcation 2296 01:52:43,734 --> 01:52:46,700 of the view corridor there. 2297 01:52:48,133 --> 01:52:51,233 I think it's about where the person in the black coat in the 2298 01:52:51,233 --> 01:52:53,533 drawing is standing and I wanna be sure 2299 01:52:53,533 --> 01:52:55,934 that we're aware of that. 2300 01:52:56,066 --> 01:52:58,734 That's a, that's an impact to the remainder 2301 01:52:58,734 --> 01:53:00,834 of our code past that. 2302 01:53:01,300 --> 01:53:04,266 Very impressive. Thank you. Thank you. 2303 01:53:06,867 --> 01:53:08,300 - So that leaves me 2304 01:53:08,867 --> 01:53:12,367 and cj I am still 2305 01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:17,300 confused maybe that first slide, Heather is the best one 2306 01:53:17,333 --> 01:53:21,033 to talk about this bus stop conve congestion 2307 01:53:21,033 --> 01:53:22,000 in front of the museum. 2308 01:53:22,500 --> 01:53:27,300 Especially, you know, I concur with John's comments on 2309 01:53:27,367 --> 01:53:31,100 how those LA walls are gonna make it look really high 2310 01:53:31,133 --> 01:53:34,266 and big and massive in, in the building itself. 2311 01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:37,367 So, which, you know, I I like the idea 2312 01:53:37,367 --> 01:53:41,634 that it's allowing the museum to have a larger draw 2313 01:53:41,767 --> 01:53:43,567 that people can enjoy it more 2314 01:53:43,700 --> 01:53:46,000 and that the access is great 'cause it's street level. 2315 01:53:46,567 --> 01:53:48,567 But again, you know, you're causing an issue 2316 01:53:48,567 --> 01:53:50,100 with people getting on and off the bus there 2317 01:53:50,567 --> 01:53:52,133 and people coming and going out of the museum. 2318 01:53:52,133 --> 01:53:54,033 Which actually I think the museum entrance is further 2319 01:53:54,033 --> 01:53:56,066 to the right, but the windows are there 2320 01:53:56,233 --> 01:53:59,834 and there's, it just seems to me it is pretty tight. 2321 01:54:00,066 --> 01:54:04,934 So then on that first slide, after the one with Zerman 2322 01:54:04,934 --> 01:54:07,300 and Pete Seibert and, sorry, it's not working right now. 2323 01:54:07,834 --> 01:54:10,567 Oh, okay. I I don't have the number 2324 01:54:10,667 --> 01:54:12,033 but I, it was the one we were looking at 2325 01:54:12,033 --> 01:54:16,133 before that the other busts heading to the east is in front 2326 01:54:16,233 --> 01:54:21,000 of where the real estate agent is now for Eng Vol Volker, 2327 01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:23,033 it looks like where those, that one bus is 2328 01:54:23,100 --> 01:54:25,333 and there's two buses parked in front of 2329 01:54:26,100 --> 01:54:28,734 the museum building. 2330 01:54:29,100 --> 01:54:30,000 Is that what I'm seeing there? 2331 01:54:31,834 --> 01:54:33,000 So are those, is this the right side? 2332 01:54:33,367 --> 01:54:34,867 Yeah, on the left side in front 2333 01:54:34,867 --> 01:54:37,100 of building four there's two gray blocks. 2334 01:54:38,433 --> 01:54:40,233 - Yeah. Along East Meadow Drive. Pardon? 2335 01:54:40,767 --> 01:54:43,500 Along along East, south East Meadow Drive. Yeah. 2336 01:54:43,500 --> 01:54:46,333 And I would say the two buses are in the location 2337 01:54:46,667 --> 01:54:48,734 for the westbound stop. 2338 01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:50,467 Right. The eastbound stop would be 2339 01:54:50,533 --> 01:54:52,000 basically where it is today. 2340 01:54:52,133 --> 01:54:56,567 You see the small shelter just to the left of the, 2341 01:54:57,000 --> 01:54:58,367 - It's next to the right - There. Right. Theron Gore 2342 01:54:58,367 --> 01:54:59,367 - Right there. 2343 01:54:59,367 --> 01:55:02,133 So if, so that other bus on the left side, 2344 01:55:02,266 --> 01:55:04,100 which I think is in front of the real estate building, 2345 01:55:05,133 --> 01:55:06,233 is going to have to, it can, 2346 01:55:06,500 --> 01:55:09,133 they can pass there like it's not too tight 2347 01:55:09,166 --> 01:55:11,033 'cause it looks like that one's pulled in a bit. 2348 01:55:11,467 --> 01:55:13,734 I just, I feel like that east, 2349 01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:17,166 the westbound bus stop could be better utilized in front 2350 01:55:17,266 --> 01:55:20,133 of again, that space where the pop-up retail is, 2351 01:55:20,133 --> 01:55:21,066 which may not be needed 2352 01:55:21,767 --> 01:55:24,166 and there could be a bus shelter there like there is now 2353 01:55:24,166 --> 01:55:27,367 with the kids tiles in there. 2354 01:55:27,433 --> 01:55:29,100 I think that's really cute just 2355 01:55:29,100 --> 01:55:31,500 because yes, when people come down now they're not, 2356 01:55:31,500 --> 01:55:33,300 they're coming straight down the stairs now. 2357 01:55:33,834 --> 01:55:35,300 So there's a bus right there on the left. 2358 01:55:35,333 --> 01:55:37,667 But at this point with the way this is designed, 2359 01:55:37,667 --> 01:55:39,767 they're gonna come out more kind 2360 01:55:39,767 --> 01:55:42,934 of facing southwest there as opposed to Right. 2361 01:55:43,033 --> 01:55:45,467 Exactly where that bus stop is at this point. 2362 01:55:45,900 --> 01:55:47,700 So it would reduce some of that 2363 01:55:48,367 --> 01:55:49,500 people coming down the stairs 2364 01:55:49,500 --> 01:55:51,100 and going, there's a bus coming. 2365 01:55:51,300 --> 01:55:53,033 Oh. And not understanding, you know, 2366 01:55:53,033 --> 01:55:55,300 that there's a stop there, but instead it's further back 2367 01:55:55,300 --> 01:55:56,734 to the left or if Theron Gore to the right 2368 01:55:56,734 --> 01:55:58,000 and they head west, they're going in front 2369 01:55:58,000 --> 01:55:59,100 of the museum where the bus stop is. 2370 01:55:59,734 --> 01:56:02,000 So I just, I think that there'll be congestion in there. 2371 01:56:02,100 --> 01:56:04,934 I just think that's gonna be a flow issue. Seriously. 2372 01:56:05,066 --> 01:56:07,266 And then that little tiny like, you know, a-frame 2373 01:56:07,266 --> 01:56:09,934 that you were talking about is, is just yes, that's it. 2374 01:56:09,934 --> 01:56:14,634 There is where it is currently. So, you know, that's fine. 2375 01:56:14,667 --> 01:56:16,000 You know that it, it's still there 2376 01:56:16,233 --> 01:56:17,834 as it is today working fine. 2377 01:56:18,734 --> 01:56:21,066 So that was my one comment on that flow. 2378 01:56:21,500 --> 01:56:23,266 And then the other thing is I think with the, 2379 01:56:23,500 --> 01:56:27,066 the cafe space in building number two, you know, 2380 01:56:27,100 --> 01:56:28,834 it could be like a cafeteria size, 2381 01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:32,000 it looks like a cafeteria basically. 2382 01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:33,634 So you could go through, you could have a few vendors, 2383 01:56:33,634 --> 01:56:34,867 you could do food truck type thing 2384 01:56:34,867 --> 01:56:36,700 and they're sort of like Avanti and Gold Peak. 2385 01:56:37,100 --> 01:56:40,066 But I also agree in that it's big 2386 01:56:40,166 --> 01:56:42,867 and it might take away from businesses in town 2387 01:56:43,634 --> 01:56:48,000 and that worries me to have two cafes that are both going 2388 01:56:48,000 --> 01:56:52,000 to perhaps take customers away from in town restaurants. 2389 01:56:52,533 --> 01:56:54,467 I love the deck. It is the best one. 2390 01:56:54,567 --> 01:56:57,500 Like if you go to the Vail Brewing Company in Solaris, 2391 01:56:57,533 --> 01:56:58,934 that is a wonderful deck. 2392 01:56:59,100 --> 01:57:01,033 And that's kind of what that reminds me of is how 2393 01:57:01,033 --> 01:57:02,467 that would get that sun exposure. 2394 01:57:02,634 --> 01:57:04,100 And it'd be great to be able to see the mountain 2395 01:57:04,266 --> 01:57:07,266 and you're looking up over the bridge and at international. 2396 01:57:07,634 --> 01:57:09,266 So it's a super viewing area. 2397 01:57:09,500 --> 01:57:11,133 And, and I do wonder, you know, there's a lot 2398 01:57:11,133 --> 01:57:12,634 of people in the, in the rendering 2399 01:57:12,634 --> 01:57:14,934 who are in their ski booths and their skis and stuff. 2400 01:57:14,934 --> 01:57:16,133 Are people gonna go up there 2401 01:57:16,133 --> 01:57:19,000 after skiing, potentially wait for their bus for an hour 2402 01:57:19,066 --> 01:57:20,100 or something if they miss it? 2403 01:57:20,367 --> 01:57:23,500 So I, I mean I just feel like it is maybe a little big. 2404 01:57:24,734 --> 01:57:26,533 So I agree with, I echo the comments 2405 01:57:26,667 --> 01:57:28,367 of my fellow commissioners here. 2406 01:57:29,000 --> 01:57:30,734 And then the third thing I really wanna 2407 01:57:31,533 --> 01:57:34,100 commend you guys on is the comment 2408 01:57:34,100 --> 01:57:38,300 that you made about this being a shelter 2409 01:57:38,567 --> 01:57:41,700 during the times that the road I 70 closed. 2410 01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:44,834 That's excellent. So then that sort of brings me back 2411 01:57:44,834 --> 01:57:46,867 to the fact that that restaurant may be 2412 01:57:47,634 --> 01:57:50,567 well used if it's big, if the road closes as much 2413 01:57:50,567 --> 01:57:51,567 as it has in years past. 2414 01:57:52,634 --> 01:57:54,734 So it could be lucrative, you know, back 2415 01:57:54,734 --> 01:57:56,133 to Bill's original comments about 2416 01:57:56,166 --> 01:57:58,066 how many people come through that every day. 2417 01:57:58,233 --> 01:58:00,333 So that pretty much sums up what I have to say, 2418 01:58:00,467 --> 01:58:02,367 but I, again, I, I compliment you guys. 2419 01:58:02,533 --> 01:58:04,300 I I was really impressed when I was looking at it first. 2420 01:58:04,333 --> 01:58:05,834 It was hard to imagine, 2421 01:58:05,867 --> 01:58:08,767 but you did such a great job in setting up step by step. 2422 01:58:08,834 --> 01:58:10,000 So thank you very much. 2423 01:58:10,734 --> 01:58:11,867 - Yeah, and I would just add on that. 2424 01:58:11,934 --> 01:58:14,333 I think, I think that that is, that is certainly a conflict 2425 01:58:14,333 --> 01:58:15,734 with the food and beverage services. 2426 01:58:15,834 --> 01:58:17,300 And are you taking away from Vail Village? 2427 01:58:17,333 --> 01:58:20,133 Are you being additive? I think the goal of the council was 2428 01:58:21,066 --> 01:58:23,567 when providing additional food services, how do we make more 2429 01:58:23,567 --> 01:58:25,934 of La Cantina something that's reasonably affordable, 2430 01:58:26,333 --> 01:58:29,033 you know, that's subsidized to a degree in some form. 2431 01:58:29,900 --> 01:58:33,100 And then at the same time, who's be mad at us? 2432 01:58:33,133 --> 01:58:34,767 'cause now we're providing cheap food to everybody 2433 01:58:34,767 --> 01:58:37,100 because we're not gonna just say locals only a great, 2434 01:58:37,433 --> 01:58:39,133 so there's, there's definitely gonna have be a balance, 2435 01:58:39,700 --> 01:58:42,834 you know, that certainly is not, you know, it's, it's, 2436 01:58:42,867 --> 01:58:44,533 it's kind of on the fringe of the discussions. 2437 01:58:44,567 --> 01:58:47,033 How does this really work? But I think that's, 2438 01:58:47,033 --> 01:58:50,000 that's certainly a, a topic that will need to be discussed 2439 01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:51,000 - Further. 2440 01:58:51,000 --> 01:58:53,367 I, I mean, but you get into that level detail for something 2441 01:58:53,367 --> 01:58:56,233 that candidly is gonna happen eight to 10 years from now. 2442 01:58:57,133 --> 01:59:00,300 We don't know. Right. You know, I mean, I, I agree. 2443 01:59:00,567 --> 01:59:02,767 I think Avanti has been a huge plus 2444 01:59:03,066 --> 01:59:05,066 for this community on so many different levels. 2445 01:59:06,033 --> 01:59:09,934 And you know, they use it as meeting space, event space. 2446 01:59:11,133 --> 01:59:13,000 You see organizations use it 2447 01:59:13,266 --> 01:59:16,033 and that same model could happen here, 2448 01:59:16,100 --> 01:59:19,533 but until, until you're two years out, 2449 01:59:20,900 --> 01:59:22,033 you don't know what's gonna work. 2450 01:59:22,100 --> 01:59:24,767 So, I mean, in some ways I just think this is creative, 2451 01:59:25,700 --> 01:59:26,767 you know, so kudos. 2452 01:59:28,100 --> 01:59:31,500 But you know, it's, it's obviously gonna be phased over 2453 01:59:32,867 --> 01:59:37,000 a decade or longer and, but, you know, 2454 01:59:37,433 --> 01:59:41,000 but I like the, the creativity and the thinking. 2455 01:59:41,166 --> 01:59:42,166 So 2456 01:59:43,934 --> 01:59:45,266 - Any final comments from commissioners? 2457 01:59:46,634 --> 01:59:49,533 - No, - I'll keep it brief 2458 01:59:49,567 --> 01:59:52,233 and just say, I, I do agree with the concerns that have been 2459 01:59:52,834 --> 01:59:55,100 expressed about the size and mass of this. 2460 01:59:55,166 --> 01:59:59,634 And also, you know, practicality relative to 2461 02:00:00,667 --> 02:00:01,734 how it will impact 2462 02:00:05,266 --> 02:00:08,033 users not in the building and, and you know, whether 2463 02:00:08,033 --> 02:00:12,000 or not this is a, a good place for this grand of a vision. 2464 02:00:13,100 --> 02:00:15,867 But yeah, I appreciate the detailed overview here. 2465 02:00:18,567 --> 02:00:22,634 - Thanks cj. There's no further comments. 2466 02:00:22,734 --> 02:00:23,767 Thanks for your time, guys. 2467 02:00:23,767 --> 02:00:25,266 Appreciate the presentation. No, thank you. Thank you. 2468 02:00:25,266 --> 02:00:26,834 - Appreciate it. Thank - You. Appreciate it. 2469 02:00:29,100 --> 02:00:30,300 - Heather, anything else for us 2470 02:00:31,500 --> 02:00:32,500 - The next meeting? 2471 02:00:32,500 --> 02:00:34,033 No new items were noticed 2472 02:00:34,266 --> 02:00:37,634 and it looks like nothing has been continued to 2473 02:00:37,634 --> 02:00:40,533 that next meeting, so most likely it will be canceled. 2474 02:00:40,867 --> 02:00:42,533 But stay tuned and we'll, 2475 02:00:42,634 --> 02:00:43,634 - What is happen? 2476 02:00:45,133 --> 02:00:48,233 - What is happening, right. Yeah. 2477 02:00:48,266 --> 02:00:52,100 So we will gear up for the month of October. 2478 02:00:53,867 --> 02:00:56,066 So we'll send that out to you guys just to confirm. 2479 02:00:57,667 --> 02:00:59,767 All right. And that's it. Thank you for your time as always. 2480 02:00:59,767 --> 02:01:02,066 - Great. Appreciate it. If there's nothing else from 2481 02:01:02,066 --> 02:01:04,133 commissioners, is there a motion to adjourn? Move to 2482 02:01:04,133 --> 02:01:05,000 - Adjourn. Second 2483 02:01:05,133 --> 02:01:06,133 - Is a second. 2484 02:01:06,133 --> 02:01:09,734 All in favor, please say aye. A Aye. All opposed? 2485 02:01:10,634 --> 02:01:11,533 We are adjourned. Thank you.