Recording in
progress.
>> Going to order the City
Council study session for
Tuesday over 21st 2025. City
clerk. Would you call the
roll, please.
>> Yes. Thank you, Christine
Brown city clerk. Please state
for the record. If you're
present at I call your name
mayor Matthews present deputy
mayor quits and PRESIDENT
Councilmember Dietz present
councilmember family Johnson
PRESIDENT Topless PRESIDENT
Councilmember Milwaukee
present councilmember
Schneider, PRESIDENT. Thank
you.
>> I'd like to read the
landing. A beginning with the
words attributed chief
Seattle. Every part of this
oil sacred to in the
estimation of my people, every
hillside, every Valley, every
plan and growth has been
hollowed by some happy event
in days long vanished. Begin
by acknowledging land on which
we gather is within the
ancestral territory of the
stick. Watch people of clear
salt water squamish people
expert fisherman builders
basket weavers Koch live in
harmony with the lands and
waterways along Washington
central Salish sea as they
have for thousands of years.
Here. The supply Slive and
protect the land and waters of
their ancestors for future
generations as promised by the
point. Eliot treaty of 1855.
We have with deputy city
attorney that are told city
manager player King city
clerk. Other members of staff
be active in the program.
Motion to approve the agenda.
I move to approve tonight's
study session agendas, prison.
Second councilmember Dietsch
motion by Clints Moore
walking. Are there conflict? A
conflict of interest. You need
we vote yes, of course, all
those in favor. Any opposed.
Motion is approved for
approval of the agenda. Any
conflict of interest tonight.
Okay. Our first item of
business. He's a presentation
related to the ground water
management plan of our peer
review. I believe.
>> This was to go great that
we're going to have our waters
for specials. Kristian Berg.
We'll go ahead and introduce
key that waters who was the
consultant who prepared to
peer review of the groundwater
management plan introduced at
then be able to channel some
of the information from them.
>> She buried the water
resources specialist here. The
city tonight we're going to
talk about groundwater near
new perspective on the work
that's been ongoing for about
5 years. In APRIL Council
approved a motion to direct
staff to look for peer
reviewers for the groundwater
management plan. And on JULY
22nd Council received the
second draft of the plan and
authorize staff to hire key
the waters to review the plan
and write a memo detailing
their findings. You know,
waters was recommended by
spawned a staff member who is
also on technical advisory
Committee for the plan. If
received this memo and we'll
have a chance to hear from the
authors and ask questions
about the process and
findings. City staff is also
working keep waters meet with
the planning Commission on
OCTOBER 30th and give a
similar presentation. The
recommended motion on this
item is the for the
groundwater management plan.
Pierre view to the ground.
Water management plan,
subcommittee and technical
advisor Committee for
development of next steps and
plans for public engagement. I
am pleased to introduce to
accomplish groundwater experts
that have joined us tonight
via zoom. Joel mast man has
over 30 years of experience as
a groundwater consultant and
received his ph d and
groundwater hydrology from the
University of British
Columbia. And Adam s man is an
environmental engineer, an
atmospheric scientist and
holds a phd in environmental
engineering from Columbia
University. And with that, I'm
just kind of handed over to
them and they have a brief
presentation and will be
available for some questions
afterwards. Thank you.
>> Good evening and thank you
for the opportunity to talk
with about are peer review.
The draft groundwater
management plan. As mentioned,
we've prepared a short
presentation that's aimed at
highlighting some of the main
conclusions and
recommendations from the
review with the understanding
that questions and discussions
will follow. My name is Jerome
asman. I'm a principal
engineer and partner with Cuba
waters. It's groundwater
consulting practice that I
started about 25 years ago.
Prior to starting that
practice. I was on the fact
Lee and the Department of
civil engineering at
University of Washington for
about 10 years. And I've also
served on the city of Mercer
Island utility board from 2004
to 2011. I'm joined by Adam
and my son and partner in key
to waters. Next slide. Please.
The presentation and that
being around 10 minutes or so
and tree preferred options
which we finished summary of
conclusions and
recommendations and then a
little bit about our rationale
for going conclusions and rep
recommendations. Next slide.
Please. The draft review
report is about 40 pages long
and contains some relatively
detailed discussions related
to groundwater modeling and
other technical topics. It
also includes responses to
some specific comments and
questions that the technical
advisory committee and the
planning subcommittee prepared
what we'd like to highlight in
this evening are a few of the
higher level conclusions and
recommendations that are
included in our reach. You.
The good and groundwater
management plan that we
reviewed includes are ranked
set of groundwater plan
actions in some ways these
actions are are the real focus
of the report. The 2 actions
with the highest ranking
heartening that increasing
water conservation and
increasing Brown water
recharge. We agree that these
actions warrant the higher
rankings in large part because
the improved, the resiliency
of the system by resiliency
Remini ability to provide the
necessary services over a
variety of climate and
environmental scenarios. Next
slide. Please. The available
water level data and the
available modeling result do
not provide definitive
evidence that current and
future groundwater withdrawals
are sustainable or are not
sustainable. This MAY be an
unsatisfying conclusion, but
it's one that Adam and I
believe is an important point
to make. One of the main
reasons there are questions
about sustainability is due to
uncertainties and ground water
recharge rates not only are
future recharge rates on
certain routes or current
rate. Next slide. Want to
spend just a few minutes. Kind
of describing using some
schematic diagrams, maybe
cartoons. But the overall
rationale for for those
conclusions are. Next slide.
The key question in evaluating
sustainability is what is the
water balance over the long
term. The amount of water that
these the ground water system,
what we call the amount that
enters the system. This figure
presents a very basic
description water balance
might look like on Bainbridge
The main source of inflow to
the system is from recharge
that the land surface. Most of
this recharge is from rainfall
with a little bit more from
septic return flow. There's a
possibility of inflow from
deep aquifers under Porter
today. But that doesn't seem
to be a consensus about how
significant that might be. So
we've dash that he wrote a
show that. Certainly
groundwater believes that the
numbers piling through Wells.
By flow to streams and
wetlands. And by Florida salt
water bodies. Next slide.
Water components that are most
important and the ones that we
have the best handle on
Farwell withdrawls floater
fresh water features at the
land surface and recharge. And
if you were to ask for a best
guess relative value for these
3 under current conditions. It
might look something like
this. At first glance you
might conclude that inflow.
From recharge exceeds outflow
from Wells and slowed the
surface water. So things are
ok, but if you dive into the
uncertainties they're actually
larger than what the
differences are. So there are
scenarios we're outflow might
exceed inflow, particularly
under future conditions. And
it's these uncertainties and
the relative size of those
uncertainties compared to how
close is balances, which
causes us to make our
recommendations and to support
the conclusions in the draft
groundwater management plan
about the importance of.
Conserving water as much as
possible and increasing
groundwater recharge as much
possible. That concludes the
presentation prepared and like
to open it up for questions
and discussions. Thank you.
>> Thank you both very much
for being with us. Tonight. I
want to. Hear from my fellow
council members their
questions are there concerns
so we probe into the pier
review and the work that lies
as we refer peer review and
questions it raises to the
specialists. Locally. I just
wanted to make a few comments
at the outset and then turn to
my colleagues and I have
further comments maybe at the
end of the process in the
middle if have more to say.
This has been. A peer eagerly
waited for and that is what
been well worth the wait. I
just think it is excellent
from start to finish in a
certain several different ways
it's very meticulous attention
to places where phrasing could
be changed, where little slips
could attended to in in the.
The second version of the
going water management plan.
Also raises some very big
questions about assumptions
made principles followed in
the the creation of model. So.
That's that's important. And I
wanted to comment next In
conclusion. On one page at the
very end of the pier review
commenting a document that
iPhone.
>> Very impressive. I think a
Christian Berg for his
important role in creation
creating the summary and
near-term action. A memo. It
is 15 page document that I
think is much more. Valuable.
Then the executive summary
that is part of the
groundwater management plan.
It carries us forward. In the
direction of implementation
and actions that and so I'm
I'm pleased to waters. The 2
of you together endorsing this
and making some very precise
and useful suggestions for re
phrasing in a few places. I
want to see the council. Pay
attention to this document and
take action to endorse it.
Props after some give and take
with committees that the will
be reviewing all of our work
and public engagement process.
But at some point I think the
council should be standing up
and saluting near-term action
memo and whatever is added to
it as a result of our review
of the whole project. My
colleagues any any comments
next see topless with the
light on and needs of.
>> first of all, I want to say
that I so thankful for this
document in this work. I think
it's when the best pieces of
work I've received as a
councilmember. After long
period of struggling with.
What was coming to us from
this work and now hearing
trying to understand is what I
would most appreciate from you
both would be clarifying some
things I'm trying to wrestle
with because my first
reaction. In reading through
peer review was well, if this
sounds very critical of a lot
methodology or the approaches
taken and warning us about
what we should be doing. So I
could be taking that actually
being too should these could
be confirmation bias. So I do
want to check with you on
that. What I think I want
understands. I'm trying to
tease out where a c. You know
what how much the model
itself. You MAY feel critical
of the modeling itself or the
dwelling on the modeling not
perhaps moving forward to the
work of the management part of
the plan and what you if you
could distill down what should
concern us most if anything,
because these these policy,
this is a policy decisions
that are going to come off of
that are being fed by the are
so critical test our community
that we just The Strait is
talk possible. I think you
actually do have a very clear
document. And but again, I
worry confirmation bias
because some of the statements
put so many quotes out of here
of your comments that suggests
to me that again, we kind of
still don't have a plan, which
is what we've been waiting for
and so it can tell us. Do we
have the modeling and the data
and we can move from there. Do
we need to worry about
modeling. Before we could go
to planning. So those are
really can some broad
questions. And I would like to
reserve the building come back
and ask more specific
questions about specific
comments you've made but I
hope that's clear. What I'm
asking for. Some direct
guidance to those of us were
policymakers who MAY have been
hoping that at some point we
can actually achieve a balance
water and if we're somehow
going to be forced to not
achieved that that we at least
are making targeted decisions.
And acceptable, a drawl read
>> Let me start off with
Respond to that. And I'll ask
them chime in as well. As far
as the groundwater model goes,
we try to provide some
constructive. Criticisms like
gas about the modeling work
that's been Some of it. Was
handed down to the consultant.
You've been working with. It
wasn't their decision to make.
And. And so that's part of
that and Criticism or some of
difficulties with that model.
Kind of influences our
recommendations about you
know, moving forward with
doing what you can do about
what you and what you know is
that if you conserve more
water and you if you can
increase the recharge, you're
going to be better off You
know, I I don't know that I
would spend a whole lot more
money and effort on modeling
at this Because of those
uncertainties as we say in the
report, there are inherent,
you know no matter how much
modeling you do they still
going to be lots of
uncertainties and you probably
still won't know whether your
current and future production
is going to be sustainable or
not. The best thing to do in
my estimation is to continue
the monitoring that you've
been doing maybe beef it up.
If you can do what you can to
control both inflow and
outflow from that system.
Adam, you have any thoughts
you'd like to share.
>> No. Yeah, I would agree
with all that. The other piece
of dad in addition to the. You
know, groundwater modeling
there in these inherent
uncertainties. You know, one
option would be you could
explore with those
uncertainties are with more
modeling. It cetera. And you
know, we provide some ideas
about that. But again, I would
second what tools saying of
MAY be moving on from the
modeling work because that is
extremely resource intensive
to to really try to put
together a comprehensive
modeling plan. This bans all
the uncertainties in the
present and the future is very
resource intensive and because
this is inherent the bounds
might not be shrunk enough
even after you do on that to
be actionable from a
management standpoint and so
focusing on the monitoring and
the conservation I think would
be a likely better use of
resources.
>> Thank you. Deputy mayor.
Thank you, Adam and let you
identify father son. But
that's just a coincidence that
have the same names, but no
thank you for the report. I
read it great interest in. I'm
not sure if I'm duplicating
Council topple says minds
more. MAY be straight forward
that.
>> There's uncertainty,
whether our water use is
sustainable or on sustainable
and. Is it your conclusions?
Is there anything perhaps in
the big, you know, is there
anything we could have day
one. Let's just say when we
started this to have come to a
different with more certainty
or when you mentioned the
inherent nature.
>> Is that common with these
reports. I this is the only
one I've ever looked at and
that's Bainbridge Island. So
my point being is, is this
usual to have an inherent
uncertainty or is or do we
stand out in some manner.
>> Yeah. I think all models
have lots of uncertainty. That
here and uncertainties and is
not unique to babers I think
is a little bit you need is is
if you look at those numbers
about the amount of
groundwater withdrawal you
have. And compare it to past
months about the amount of
recharge you have. You're kind
getting up there a little bit.
I mean, a lot of systems
there. You know, maybe 5% or
something like that. You know,
so there's more wiggle room in
there. So those inherent
uncertainties are quite is
important as you start to get
closer together terms of that
water You know, as your
withdrawal start job. You
know, 30%, of what do you
recharge is then the
uncertainties become more
important. More questions
later.
>> Mary Matthews and then no
because a number of entry
Johnson.
>> Thanks deputy where I just
wanted to thank you both for
this peer review and the
written report to even a
layperson like myself was so I
just double and redouble and I
think I get where you're
going. But have a couple what
do you think should be our
first step in dealing with
Should we for say, ok, let's
immediately go to and then are
you familiar with the.
>> Campbell water. Treatment
facility any of the keep
things they're doing in the
water didn't work. And do you
think those are some things
should start to look at here.
It.
>> I think it's possible that
Dole MAY having Internet
connectivity yeah, these are
great you know, I I think what
to do next I think would be.
Focus on conservation. And you
know, 1 one place to maybe
start is to, you know, in the
groundwater management plan
theirs a table that documents
what different water systems
are using what water and
there's a large range of
variability there so, you
know, potential low hanging
fruit is to say, ok, systems
30's and very little water.
What are they doing and it's
great. And you know, the
systems that are using a lot
of water.
>> Where's I want to go where
the summit water and you know,
if it's possible bring this
high water use and systems
down to to the lower water use
and systems. You can increase
the resilience of the system
right there. And you know,
having those data on those
systems are using the water.
You know, it's it's things
that we know are feasible
because they're being done And
it's that so I'm not familiar
with this poor gamble
facility. I am somewhat
familiar with Cape water
systems just much as it was
presented in the groundwater
management
>> and there, I mean.
>> What was in the report is
one thing to be concerned
about is it seems like kp you
be some of their recent work
has pretty large increases in
production you know, getting
back to these figures we've
been talking about, about how
close the margins are between
the water withdrawals in the
recharge. You know, refilling
the system and then you factor
in the uncertainties around
that that having such an
aggressive assume growth in
production for their systems
could create issues for the
city of Denver, John system
also from the permit exempt
well, users that, you know,
the live on the island.
>> really helpful. Our. And so
since the u probably deal with
other municipalities in
jurisdictions do other peer
reviews. Are there any really
innovative.
>> Things that, you know, we
don't have to be written here.
You know, I have no trouble
copying other folks. If it's
something that works really
well. So is there something
that you think you see other
places that we could be doing.
>> think sorry, but I keep
item
>> I think do little for none
that I have a familiar with
directly. But I do know one
potentially very measure that
can be taken. You know, a ban
on outdoor water extreme
situations. I mean, that can
really a decrease consumptive
>> Over Charlotte in a It
outdoor water any water
gardens any anything like And
especially for homes septic
systems ok, then you're
consumptive water use goes way
down because most of the
indoor water use is running
through the septic system and
eventually ends up going back
to the ground. Water system as
recharge. And so as long as
the septic systems are
functioning and treating the
water. Well, then you.
>> Whatever they water quality
issues in the opera for and
you'll be really well in the
water. One of the but I would
say that I mean, that a very
extreme extreme measure for,
you know, emergency so fun.
Fact is that the bridge
islands, the South and to be
in Island uses the most water
in Cape can And so we have
Houston. We have a problem.
Thank you,
>> Council member found Roy
Johnson and councilmember
Schneider. Thank you. Just
want to thank you for giving
us this report.
>> But I guess I have some
questions the modeling and the
conclusions well, kind of
conclusions that you you come
to.
>> I guess I wanted to know
for us for for what we've been
doing and the data that we've
collected in this modeling.
>> It sounds like to leave
from your report that that
kind of hindered. The outcome
of what you found. It's like
maybe we shouldn't have been
spending so much time on the
because it seems to me that
we've we've come out to the
conclusion that what we need
to do is be more conservative.
Without water. It would seems
like. A It seems to me that I
guess I'm wondering. The no
way that we need to go with
our decision-making. And what
you found out from doing this
peer review. If whether the
many uncertainties that you
found were. Was it a
collective of. What's
happening with global warming
conservation and the modeling
or could we should not self in
the foot here trying data when
you know the outcome is well,
we need to be more
conservative in.
>> Yeah. I don't know if I'd
use I'm sorry, I keep getting
dropped off. Yeah, went back
on for good now I know he's
shooting yourself in the foot.
So much there's definitely,
you know, that tradeoff that
you're talking about You know,
whether it whether to spend
more money on modeling make
sense for not and. I think
what Adam mentioned before as
you know, maybe try did spend
a little more effort trying
know what you don't know in
terms of the modeling work,
you know, don't spend so much
time trying to get the right
answer. But use them, the kind
of more, you know, simply to
bracket what what the answer
might be. As we say in the
report, you know, the biggest
bang for your buck is going to
be for doing what you can do
conserve water and increase
recharge and no amount of
modeling.
>> It's going to change So
follow Yeah. There's really no
way for us to quantify you
know, the of our water.
>> And the next steps is
probably to engage in some
sort of project.
>> To the residents on the
island conserve more water.
>> I would agree with with
Yes. Yeah. Other thing I just
add about the modeling I think
hindsight 2020 and you know,
so we have the benefit looking
backwards and you know, what's
the you know, usefulness of
the you know,
>> How much is the
uncertainty. But. So things
MAY look different. Looking
backwards. But, you know,
these numbers that we had in
our sliding pulled out this
came out of the model and, you
know, even just understanding
that how close these numbers
are and knowing what we know
kinda independently about the
uncertainty and knowing that
this a system that could be
kind of close to. Its limits.
It could not be, but it could
be. I think that can be can be
nice because it does, you
know, motivate this
conservation approach. And we
know that now, you know,
looking backwards that, you
know, might might have been as
clear, you know, before this
all began.
>> Right. And I think that's
the main point. It could be or
it could right. And when we
look at the numbers, it looks
like everything's fine, but we
don't know that because
there's other uncertainties
that we will. We will never be
able to model all of the
uncertainties, I guess is the
point I wanted to make.
>> Snyder and then Council are
walking.
>> Thank you. Deputy mayor,
then probably follow a little
bit of similar threat here.
Thank you both very much for
coming back. I know that, you
know, this has been edited
groundwater in general. In the
end, this plan has been a huge
issue for our community and
and primarily. Is it an issue
of trust. I would think. So. I
guess I have 2 points. One is,
you know that you were saying
you might want to focus on
knowing what you don't know
with that. Include more
monitoring, more Wells
bringing more sort Wells in
the private sector you into
our supply of data, which I
think was what was told to us
quite a while ago by our
public works director that we
really probably should be
amping up. The number
monitors. Well monitoring. So
does that fall in the category
of end. Maybe, maybe not
because that, you know, that
sort of falls in the spending
a lot of money modeling or is
it still a valuable. Tool to
do more monitoring without
dumping a lot more. Of our
resources into modeling. So
that's question number one.
And then question number 2 is
if the recommendations come
out as you know, conservation
and increasing. Recharge. What
I think that, you know, the
elephant in the room for our
community is what does that
mean about our plans for
growth. And how does that
recharge and conservation
relate to population growth.
Is it easier at can we
accommodate, you know, in a
smart way, more population
growth. If we pursue these
other modes. I just wanted
that to be out there.
>> Yeah, let me answer first.
And the other question about
monitoring versus modeling.
And these are really, I think
too, very different animals in
some ways. And I think the if
it's well thought out, which
from what we've seen it has
Monday, which islands terms of
the groundwater monitoring
that that that's very valuable
information and we don't want
to suggest that. Efforts spent
trying to continue that has.
So that's kind of different
from the model in question.
You know, as far as how does
the water conservation
translate into growth limits.
It's not something that we
looked into on this peer
review. It's an important
question. My sense is that
you've got quite a bit of room
in terms of water conservation
that would allow girls. You
know what? What those specific
numbers look like. We haven't.
That wasn't part of our school
board we look into that. But
there's definitely some room.
They urge us from numbers that
we've seen.
>> comes are walking. Thank
you. Getting question again.
Join my colleagues on square
there. You did a great job for
all of us. When I first read
this, it really was
eye-opening because I begin to
think. Didn't get anything
right and someone bring a new
review that you just highlight
the things that you saw that
needed correction or you
weren't on cleared and that
standard or their parched that
you agreed with new just in
coming on someone that that
modeling to corrected. That
statement seems to be accurate
or not. That thought follows
common signs, that kind of
thing. So if you give me an
idea where they're places that
you thought that the plan been
just fine or follow No rules
and procedures.
>> Yeah, you're right that
there is a bias towards, you
know, finding and commenting
on on issues that you have
with it, you know, as opposed
to saying what's right. I
think that there there's lot
that's good in In terms
pulling together, a lot of
that data. I think that data
could be presented more
concisely and more clearly,
particularly in terms of you
know what, what is the water
use rates right now. There's
inconsistent season report But
there are some good numbers in
there that I think could
altogether and cleaned up and
even the recharge testaments
that were developed. Yeah,
they were based on methods
that have been used by the
U.S. Geological survey, which
is, you know, kind of the gold
standard in some but they're
getting a little bit dated now
and then. The other issue is
that you know, they didn't
really look at the
uncertainties associated with
those. But, you know, I think
that the estimates, you know,
terms of the midpoint probably
are you know, too bad but you
know, and they use probably,
you know what could be termed
you know, you know, current
professional standards, but
there's a lot of uncertainties
that have been highlighted and
that was kind of our one main
issue as we thought it could
have done a better job with
talking about some of the
uncertainties and that's
sometimes a hard thing to do
for people like us pay to
develop models to really be
clear about you the value and
the uncertainties associated
with so to my colleagues, when
I read read this, around to
the end. What's the conclusion
what you say as a group. And
if I can just read sections of
your final 2 paragraphs and
get some comment on that. You
say to guy local decision
making. He recommended
stakeholders, quote, need to
consider multiple lines of
evidence on all physical and
plausible outcomes, especially
when they're contrast
contrasting relevant to
specific decision required in
response to a changing
climate. Confident in the
distilled regional climate
information is enhanced when
there's a grim across multiple
lines of evidence that comes
from this study ipcc to of 21
ats. And this is the part this
last paragraph on In other
words, to have confidence in
future predictions on a local
scale. There must be several
lines of evidence such as and
samba modeling and historical
data all support each other
and agree on a specific range
of outcomes and you call it a
steely ation method is the
gold standard of climate
science. However, it MAY take
in in disciplinary teams of
experts and access to data and
resources that MAY make it
accessible to smaller
governments and institutions.
And I think Adam alluded that
earlier saying that you can
only go so far was study were
becomes unreachable not
affordable or forgot how
phrase
>> Yes, it could be very
resource Yeah. The amount of
the amount of work in data and
modeling that all needs to be
synthesized in order to. Say
something with confidence even
say something about the
uncertainty pounds themselves.
>> Yeah. But that's perfect
segue to your final next pair
got into your final paragraph.
People say for small area like
Cambridge Highland results
from quantitative modeling. A
future scenarios. Maybe so
uncertain that they have
limited value for gun specific
many with decisions. However
him this one study in 2012, it
states that the context of
policy decisions on carbon
emissions and global comment.
Certainly is not ignorance.
And a reliance on policy
makers on scientific and
economic analysis to little
more certainty on how to
optimize future consumption
MAY be placing more weight on
those analysis than they
should be. Reasonably there.
And then you close with saying
instead of being guided by
specific uncertain figures,
representing future
conditions. Planning decision
should be made. That will
result in a resilient
groundwater system that will
be able to adapt to
uncertainty in this respect.
The groundwater management
plan is successful in
identifying broad management
areas that would result in
justice system systematic
implementing policies that
increased water conservation
reduce pumping and provide
increased cleaning recharge.
Your final groundwater
management plan. Voted on
these core principles will be
the most sustainable and
resilient in any future
scenario regardless of the
specific qualities of
precipitation recharge sea
level rise, et cetera. So
summing that Read how how
would you put it in your terms
of what you're suggesting.
That we be moving forward
>> Yeah. Maybe a quick point
of clarification that and this
is kind of with how we
organize that that was kind of
unintended. 3 organized it to
be kind of a stand-alone
section discussing general
uncertainty future projections
but not necessarily, you know,
our key conclusions overall,
you know, for that we were
kind of intending more the
first executive summary those
bullet points as I as our kind
of conclusions of our review.
You know, it's it's it's where
we can talk about it a little
bit you know, I think this
kind of brings cause goes on
to say earlier that. You know,
it's very resource intensive
to try to explore this
uncertainty. And in the end.
Even if all those resources
are spent, you might. It might
not be possible to get an
answer that is satisfactory
for making a management
decision. For example, making
the manager's decision about
how things are going to be
affected in the year. 2100 and
there are so many different,
you know, physically possible
pathways of what things could
look like in 2100 that all
rely on human decision-making,
you know, across the globe
that in the end they're just
there might not be that
information available to make
a concrete decision. So what
we can do is, you know, know
that we do know what the
future's going to be no, it's
highly and then we focus on
what we can control. So you
know, conservation, we talked
groundwater monitoring doesn't
really add to that is you
know, getting better handle on
how much water people are
using it and where they're
using it and then through
time, you know, tracking how
all these things are
progressing. What population
is how much water people
using. But the groundwater
levels doing it cetera,
cetera. And just, you know,
all working together problems
how can we reduce that water
usage. How can we get more
water going back into the
ground and those 2 things
together are going to be the
best approach for almost any
conceivable scenario. No
matter what the future MAY be
in there so much. And that
future that, you know, the
city of Beirut Island or any
municipalities not have
control over.
>> Then some like pretty
sensible common sense advice.
I appreciate that. And again,
I think all college, you're
going to be an emotional
mutual admiration society. But
a lot of work and I've been
waiting for this peer review
for a long time because our
committee has had conflicting
ideas of what are the best
models where water, the
possible out comes as a
something correct. Are the
perceptions projections on
target and you helping us get
there and a lot of it realize
that there's a lot of
uncertainty. I think that
seems to be the key word on
this whole discussion today.
Thank customer high topless or
second term and also
councilmember Thank you. So I
want to push for a little more
certainty because I'm having
hard time reconciling a couple
things from themes through
your comments on written
comments. And so.
>> The statement a little
while ago about You know, and
I'm gonna go straight to the
Elf in the room for all of us,
which is that we we are set to
make significant decisions
regarding population growth
and that actually is a lever
that we do have control, but
we can't control climate. We
can't control a lot of other
things, but we can we actually
making one of the key things
we do is pass makers is is
decide. You know, was owning
looks like it's that are
right. So and we're getting a
lot of growth pressure from
the state. So when you said a
few moments ago that there's
quite a lot of room. If we can
serve that felt inconsistent
with a lot of what I've
written you to read in your
comments South. Also that when
we started this conversation
and I MAY have a
misunderstanding, but I
thought you were saying that
while we have unknowns even
within what the state is today
but the state we're in today
with current population draws
and so forth that that you
have the sense that we're in
that zone of like we could be.
You know, there are other
communities that have more
room for uncertainties and
that we're kind of getting in
zone where we need to be
concerned. And I also
understood from everything
that think they've said today
what you wrote that you
written your recommendation
about conservation. What's so
important about that is I
believe that's a
recommendation now in our
current state. The given how
are operating now with this
population. Behaving. It's
behaving now we need to be
looking conservation and so I
think it's really important.
Get some clarification from
you on that for one thing
because with this Council, it
MAY be thinking Conservation
was going you know, we're
going to conserve x amount,
which as I've said many times
up here week actually can't
control human behavior,
especially if money's no
object to some people. And so
that's a little dangerous.
That we're that getting our
capacity from conservation
rather than and known
unknowable inherent capacity.
So I'd love to hear more about
that in. The second thing is
understanding more about when
you talk about and some of
that. I think criticism
potentially of the of the work
that's been done so far. You
talk about trying to determine
you know, at that that's a to
rent a steady state model to
determine it sounds of what
equilibrium is maybe very
simplistic. But rather than
focusing on. We've got to
figure out the exact number of
variables and what will happen
here. And here. But rather
understanding what we're
working with it. I think
that's what you're saying.
We're talking just making sure
all we can really focus on is
making sure that that the
system we have is functioning
as much equilibrium is
possible. But that necessarily
then even if we don't the
exact growth numbers we can to
weaken except and so forth is
has to be taken into
consideration. And so we're
kind I hear my my colleagues
kind of going back into the
Centre of like which is what
people who think anyone asking
about water is just trying to
stop growth is saying is,
know, it's uncertain. It's
uncertain. We don't know so
well. We don't worry about it.
We'll just conserve. So I'd
love hear more about what we
can do if we took the approach
is that you talk about could
take and anything else that
comes to mind after what I'm
saying because this is the
crux of what our community
wants to understand about this
work. Thanks.
>> When you start off by being
a more precise with my
language when I said that
there's there's there. What I
was referring to was average
per capita water You multiply
that by your population, of
course, and you get the water
news. You can reduce that
average per capita water use
significantly from where ends.
And you know, the room then
that gives here is potentially
in some population growth. If
you want to maintain the
current water use. So it's
that's what I meant by it by
room. And as far as you know,
conserving water, there are
things that you can do, right.
I mean, there places in the
state then a people not to
schedule County at all or
places like that where they
restrict outdoor water use and
has a huge impact in terms of
how much water comes out,
particularly some of these
accent Wells there are
potentially and I'm not an
expert on this, but I have
some experience from the worse
on water board. There is a
response that happens when
change the way that you charge
for water. So there are ways
encourage conservation that
way. And then there's peer
pressure. You know what she
turns out to be really pretty,
pretty powerful in terms of
conserving life. So I think
there are things that you can
do as a community to conserve
water you have some responses.
I think there are things that
I.
>> No, I think that sounds
good. Yeah. And, you know, I
also think just you know,
we're hearing the groundwater
management plan. I think that
I that I think a part of the
next steps that it identifies
are identifying what these
conservation measures look
like. No, I don't think that,
you know, we as reviewers can
offer what it what is going to
be the best pathway to
conserve water. And I do think
that, you know.
>> There challenges to that
for For sure. With how.
>> Many different systems
there on the island. The
permit extent Wells the kpd
system because the system and
then the other water per day
or so, so that that is a
problem. I don't want make it
seem like we're minimizing
not. And I also just don't
it's not within our scope to
be able to like offer any, you
know, slam dunk. Definitely
going to work things. But you
know, these are ideas that we
have and that we in some cases
with restrictions on outdoor
water use that we see in other
places. Go ahead.
>> One just to try to
understand that one more time.
Just though it in that study
state thing. I mean, these
misses But let me just read
this to little things and it
would ask you explain it to us
as people where you say the
groundwater model is used to
simulate water levels that
these these these 100 up to a
100 years. The future in none
of the scenarios to water
levels. Reach equilibrium. It
would be in a relatively
simple task to run the model.
Instead, the to estimate what
the equilibrium levels would
be for different combinations.
Recharge rates in groundwater.
Extraction rates. The
steady-state simulations can
be completed much more
efficiently than the transient
simulations described in the
current gw Mt. And then just
one last sentence, a thing or
2. Here and advantage of said
the state simulations is that
they can be used to help it to
help identify the combinations
of groundwater recharge
groundwater extraction. That
will be sustainable for future
generations. These
combinations that are
sustainable can then be used
to help identify which
management options are needed
to achieve that target the
levels of recharge and
extraction that for us as a
community, I believe is the
Holy Grail for water. So
anything you can tell us
understand what that means and
how we do that would be
helpful.
>> You know, you're one of the
point you're trying to make,
you know. And that section was
that the way to the
groundwater model has been
used is outside of the model
you develop estimates of how
much water you're going to all
right. When you put those
>> All right. I can do my best
on this But to be fully
honest. I am a surface. And
expert in recharge not on what
happens under the ground. Joy
Act. I hope so.
>> All right. Sense I want
what I was saying was that,
you know, the way that the
models when you do says, you
know, it's specify how much.
Groundwater you're going to
use in the future, put it in
the model and it calculates
water levels. But it doesn't
say whether those water levels
are sustainable or not. And
what what we're advocating is
a more in some simpler. But
more in precise method to get
bounds on what on how much
water you might be able to
take out and that's what the
steady state mode is trying to
We don't know if that steady
states going to happen in 30
years or 50 years or 500 years
and will kind of giving that
piece of the modeling up. But
we would be able to get some
bombs on if you're recharge,
is this, then you MAY be able
to develop. You know, x amount
of water in to this. You know.
Which is kind of a different
way. It. Bp took this picture
on.
>> 51 new video now.
>> Do you up a little bit
there at the end we lost maybe
the the little bit.
>> Yeah. That that was just
just a different way of using
the I guess.
>> We move to Council reduce
the should think think you get
mayor thank you. So to me it's
just maybe could take your
video off and that self. Not
done leave still here.
>> Anyway, Adam, I want to
follow You mentioned the guy
kind I'm extreme conservation
measure ban on outdoor water.
Well. I'm sure you Gentlemen
you since you're in the field.
He saw the Seattle Times
article today were the city's
a Ellensburg Prosser. Yeah.
Come on received curtailment
letters from the Department of
ecology basically no
irrigation or lawn or garden
watering due to we're in the
3rd year of a drought and I
guess my. Question here is
when for us to follow if your
recommendation water
conservation, which I wholly
indoors because I brought
discussion on this in
mid-APRIL that let's have a
discussion of water.
Implementing water
conservation measures earlier
this year and was decided.
Let's wait till groundwater
management plan this time. So
we're kind of back to this.
But I think my what I'm trying
probe here is. What's
happening with the cities and
what you just mentioned Adam,
is that it an extreme measure.
Seems like there's different
levels of water, conservation.
>> In your. Opinion.
>> How would correct. What is
our level. Should we. I'm just
saying what if we do, we go to
the extreme measure. That
seems extreme. But what level
of water conservation should
we be implementing and then
second. How do we know that?
We're succeeding. You know,
how do we know this is working
or first quote at a moderate
conservation level. At what
point do we know we we need
ramp it up. So if that if that
if that makes sense.
>> Yeah, I think you can never
know for sure.
>> You know, to what degree
are succeeding because the
shooter is always going to be
uncertain. But I do think that
there is indicators that you
can follow that can give you a
good sense that you're
conservation is working well,
you know, my understanding is
that a lot of the well
monitoring bigger, Wells. Many
Wells are in a slow but steady
state of decline that doesn't
mean the system is
unsustainable. It might just
be that they're being the
system's adjusting to new
groundwater withdrawals. But.
If this is the misses they
will eventually one would
expect those elevations to
stabilize. And so like one
very strong indicator that the
system is being sustainable
years at least for the current
and recent history of
conditions would you have some
stabilization in those
groundwater elevations across
the and so it's so that can
monitor. And I think that you
know, that's something I kind
of cheese and what we're
recommending about about the
if Joe is still with us, you
know, he's the groundwater
expert. You MAY have more to
say about okay was not so much
say about that. I mean, I
agree everything you said, but
no one thought we had was, you
know, one of the next steps is
to identify these.
>> Different approaches for
conservation.
>> And a sign no cost to them
bowl, you know, monetary
costs, you know, cost in terms
of and you know how it's going
affect people and so on and
prioritizing them get some
sense of, you know, maybe
there's some really low
hanging fruit that you could
go after and increase the
conservation significantly
without a lot of, you without
a lot of pain. Thank
>> Yes, counselor, Milwaukee
and then thank you that in
there, you know, being short
Iowa's go furloughing
improved. That's how we can
do. Your final chapter. It was
the headline. I think it's as
planning in the face of
uncertainty that was what you
summed it up with and we
talked about it earlier, but
there was one that of all the
comments and your that jumped
out at me. Page 4, one of the
last bullet and says the
environmental assessment 2025
model does not explicitly
include streams wetlands or
lakes. This severely limits,
the usefulness of the model
for freshman impacts on
groundwater pumping or an
individual streams and
wetlands. I just assumed that
was mean, it's common sense.
So that that's kind of.
Surprise to
>> Yeah, that was the the
example But what I was
mentioning before was that
That model was handed to your
current consulting that I
think they point out that it's
not a proper way to do that.
Modeling. And we would second
that it's not a proper way to
do the modeling to take out
those streams. So on. Given
what the objective right.
You're trying to predict or
estimate the impacts. On the
on those resources and model
can't do it the way it's set
up right now.
>> So a number on Broadway. If
it was included, how might
that have impacted projections
on the ground. Water recharge
him the for him.
>> I don't think it would have
affected recharge
significantly. Probably won't
affected, you know, estimates
on how much water you're able
to pull out of those deeper
aquifers. But you're kind of
flying blind in terms of what
are the impacts the pumping,
you know, on your stream flow
and on your wetlands was just
solid way to get that out of
the model. And that's
something that could be fixed
if you you know, if you want
to do and it's not if you want
to be a huge effort to fix
that piece of the modeling
work.
>> colleagues. Thank it's been
observed that the council
doesn't spend enough time
discussing things. But I think
we're refuting critique in the
way dealing with these these
issues and this dialogue with.
The people who have done some
excellent work for us. I want
to touch on a few things that
I think haven't been mentioned
to. Quoting paraphrasing
various place passages page.
25, there's the observation is
unlikely. Aquifer storage and
recovery would be feasible on
Bainbridge Island. Does not
mean tertiary treatment and
reuse is really not going to
be the money. It takes.
>> I know that I and trying
say that fact, you know, the
tertiary treatment that is one
way to prefer recharge. If so,
we would, you know, support
those kind of actions. I
prefer storage and recovery.
The idea is that you pump
water down into the awkward
for you. And store it and then
pump back on again and we've
quite a bit of work over. They
looked at this and this man
plateau quite a bit that a lot
of testing on there. And
they're basically just pushing
the water out men were really
storing water. Those are
that's very helpful. Thank you
the clarification. I want to
linger on the phrase planning
in the face of uncertainty.
And it's I've been thinking
this through as as we've
talked about it. Planning in
the face of uncertainty is
exactly what we're doing when
we plan for for population
growth. A plan for a diversity
of housing stock. All of is
planning without knowing how
much will actually be
accomplished or the pace at
which change will happen. We
also don't know in advance.
That's the rate at which
people will be leaving the
island well, other people
arrive on the island. So there
are these uncertainties that
give us some comfort. I
believe when we're talking
about the obligation to plan
for population growth. We need
to monitor year by year. What
we're producing and our
increases in population the
people aging out or being
displaced by causes and
leaving room for new people
coming in.
>> you address very well. I
think. The ways in which
uncertainty could be.
Recognize more because as you
say, uncertainty is different
from But if you if you try to
quantify the amount or the
kinds of uncertainty. That's
that's something we could
learn from. Now. The last
thing I the last observation
on what is in your peer
review. And also I think the
contents of the groundwater
management plan itself. There
is no discussion of carrying
capacity. That is something
that people have been asking
for looking for expecting to
be. Addressed in our Studies
of groundwater present future
and I take great comfort in
this silence on this subject
because I think carrying
capacity totally on There are
so many different factors come
into play and we should not be
trying to assign a number to
the carrying capacity of our
in terms of population, in
terms of other the other parts
portions of our ecosystem. We
should just be cautious and
careful attentive to the ways
in which things change in the
way things stay the same.
That's just my own. Deep
conviction on the subject. And
I wanted to share it with my
colleagues and the public. Now
there's one last big question
for me. About the difference
within our system. Between the
deepest aquifers and those
that are at or above sea
level. It has been asserted
that on our Island. We are
already in trouble because we
have depended too much on the
deepest aquifers. And it's
been observed that those
deepest aquifers served most
of the residents on the
island. On the basis of. What
you The dating scene in the
groundwater management plan.
Can we determine. How much of
the island depends. Mostly or
entirely on the deepest
aquifers. How much of the
population and how much of the
consumption. There could be
proved or there MAY be
percentages. I'm I'm dubious
about the observation that
most of the other residents
are reliant upon the deepest
offers. But I don't know that
for sure. Maybe you. You've
understood that from the what
you've done. I want the plan
to establish. Changes that we
could make. To to rely less if
we need to on the deepest
aquifers maybe can help me
>> Yeah, I believe there are
some numbers in the report. I
don't. That happened at my
fingertips that do qualify.
You know how much the water
use comes from. Most people
are options. And my
recollection is that it is
most of the people who I
don't. I don't know exactly
what that number largest
percentage of the people are
providing water from that was
I think that's deepest pockets
it is the large systems that
rely especially on the prefer.
>> But there is a great deal
other systems in their private
Wells and so on. But I don't
know if we have an out of my
eyes. The whole system as much
as we might in that regard.
Yeah. I mean, you remember
those numbers. I know you look
at them as well that.
>> I do. Yes, I know. I think
they're in there. I don't
remember the not stop my
>> I guess counselor high
topless has one You 2 things
have come off of your
questions mayor to just real
quick. I was curious to look
up because carrying capacity.
I thought was probably similar
to studies the equilibrium.
And so I thought that sort of
like what we're talking about
is something that can
potentially be determined, at
least roughly just not knowing
when will reach it for sure
because of the lack of Of
certainty. But I guess this is
what my continue frustrations
with this conversation and and
not not here. Just tonight
with with you. You too. But I
mean, just all we've been
through over the years on this
is that everything I read the
comes from the usgs and other
sources talks about in terms
of.
>> Some level of certainty
your goals with regards to
balance sustainable. You know,
withdrawal sustainable for
that word. A sustainable
yield. I mean, this is work
that done, right. So I guess I
just want to I just want to
counter that. I don't believe
it's absurd to be looking for
carrying capacity of the
guards to water. We're looking
for sustainable yield. We're
looking to tap protect perhaps
for something along the lines
of state is the equilibrium.
And I guess the lesson want to
say is, is that yes, I mean,
our major water purveyors like
us
>> kpd. That's the issue draw
quite a bit from the Fletcher
biographer and that has been
in decline as long as we've
been looking at this and
that's something we still
never come back to is.
>> How do we feel about that
decline.
>> Mayor Matthew is one thing
and council Thanks so much to
be mayor. So I actually had
this as a discuss to discuss
coming up for future agenda
but thought it probably best
to have this conversation.
First. I don't remember where
we're going. But I set we're
going somewhere in a bus. And
I sat next to the south one of
the Silverdale water
commissioners Marcus and he
had bunch of suggestions for
things that we could be doing
now here that included with
the first step was that we
should take a tour of the port
gamble, water treatment
facility. And so I what their
3rd there. The on the 3rd
Thursday of the month. And so
I will send out a calendar
thing and see if any folks
want to go.
>> then I will do. And just I
guess if there's any interest
in having him come and speak
about some of the innovative
things that they're doing
there. I think that would be
helpful for us to.
Conservatives. Well, I was
just going to go ahead and
make the motion. Thank you,
Adam and. You still there. I
moved forward the groundwater
management plan Pierre view to
the ground. Water management
plan, subcommittee in
technical advisory Committee
for development of next steps
and plans for public became
moved by councilmember Dietz
and seconded by councilor more
waukee. All those in favor any
opposed. Ms Bishop motion
passes unanimously. Thank you
and thank you both. And Joel.
It's been great to talk with
you tonight. Thank you so
Thank They Chair. If I could
related directly.
>> To the report on the pier
review.
>> couple topics come up. Will
try present to you. The most
recent review of our
beneficial. You study brought
to a while back as recall
there were 2 things that were
looked one was using
beneficial reuse for
irrigation purposes and the
other was recharged. We spent
a lot of time and effort
looking at actual recharge
would in terms of the
composition of the ground at
the The port gamble is. Used
terms of they're putting the
treated water back in there
are conditions for bit
different. When we identify,
for example, Kai Park as
location that would be
acceptable recharge location
So perhaps over the next
couple months or where the
next before you consider that
too, might be helpful have an
update on the beneficial and
finally just going say that.
Having worked in several
cities where water
conservation important piece
to basic form of that. If that
is an area that you go to is
that you just know many ways
like greenhouse gas reduction
efforts. You develop reporter
demand assessment for how much
water they are consuming. And
then you look at conservation
actions to reduce that water
by a certain percentage over a
period of time and then you
look at your plight tools and
that's basic form that most
cities are both the water
conservation. So really have a
lot of the information right
now in terms what your and
assessment is just discussion
has been on what your
conservation tools are and
help to reduction chief
through various tools over a
period of time.
>> Thank you. I could move now
to item 3 b. Involving changes
to the ethics program and you
information in the packet. And
no recommended motion but we
MAY. Provide some Council to
members of the ethics board
who are here with us tonight.
So let's take take forward
from are there any questions
or comments at this point. And
city manager do you want to
play with I don't know how
much background you want or
need in case. You
>> Right. This is an action
related to something counts
last back in MAY. That me the
council considered some
changes to program, which is a
product for work That was part
the counts from the ethics
program at the time the
council limiting to 12 months.
The complaints could perceive
to one year for the actions
subject to complaints within
also one year after member of
commissioner had left her
position within the last 12
months. The ethics board has
responded don't you kidding
the chairs here as you can
tell, they are recommending
two-year time frame. 2 years
after violation occurred in 2
years after the council member
advisory group member we
Assuming the alleged violation
occurred in term of office and
they are recommending that be
the standard to be maintained.
But chair is here to offer
insight into their position
But again, not sure how much
back on the council want that.
But that's based addition
Quick. Thumbnail sketch. You
have memo sent to Mary
Matthews and myself.
>> And I responded had very
useful give and take with
don't you're Mainly to just
encourage 2. Feel to know that
the council respects, the
integrity and the separateness
of the ethics board from
management or or even
scrutiny. We honor their input
in let's see how we can
perhaps respond to the
concerns expressed in the memo
and the ideas there for a way
forward council member Hart
high top Alyssa you weren't in
the initial Lou point. Go
ahead.
>> Well, I was you are the
main voice for being is with
proposals. Yeah, good as well
as somebody who drafted recent
chief brought changes on our
side of the covid anyway. I
have. I want to preface. My
comments was saying it so hard
for me to say anything against
anything brought forward by of
its board since I think that
they're amazing and I'm so
thankful for the long service
of a number of them. And still
feel the same way that I did
that before. So I said to put
on the record. I do not
believe that either council
members or committee members
that was shocking to me that
we were doing this to
committee members should be
hunted down accused of ethics
complaints any time after they
leave. And that's one of a
couple comments about that. So
I do want to clarify for the
ethics board. Based on the
memo to receive my GOD, I had
no idea that we we were
suggesting something more
lenient for us than than the
committees. I'm more worried.
The committee members. I'm
always worried about
dissuading people from we're
here for us. I've said this
before as a lawyer and having
seen this happen to other
lawyer members of this Council
before all of us care about
being called an ethical, but
any. But but, you know, in my
profession in particular, as
you know, anything raise like
this coming after me. 2 years
after the 9 Council
potentially harming my
reputation feels
inappropriate. Was
particularly profit again for
a fallen to And I just want to
remind everybody that there
are state ethics there is
their state ethics. There's
the ethics code. Is a serious
ethics issue. And I know that
that committee knows this I
mean, this is You know, if
somebody actually commit, you
know, taking bribes or
something. We on those. Those
are a whole different world.
And that's not what we're
talking about, trying to
influence this is our ethics
code. So I want to I don't
want to beat a dead horse. But
I just I just don't think it's
reasonable to ask of any of us
volunteer or elected is to be
subject to our city to ethics
program after we've left and
move with their lives. Thank
>> Council member country
Johnson.
>> Yeah, I know when I read
this, I kind of. Remember some
things you know, at I want to
questions about this my my
main question was well, first
of all, what what does the
state say. Are we compliance
with what you know because
we've all had to sign the
little paper says we're going
to be at the going and kinda
on what what you are saying.
Council might have a list. We.
Some of us are in professions
where we we all have to sign
those type language. You know,
for our jobs. I you know, I
know it's not a matter of
mistrust. I know. There was
some history. With this a
while back. And I kind of
remember that. But I have say
that, you know, when I no
longer am on this Council. I'm
no longer on this Council. I
don't want anybody hunt me
down in sand and then I have
to defend myself. Against
because anybody can make a
claim. Off the council. I
won't have legal help. You
know, I'm just a regular
citizen. You know. And and
yeah, the committee, you know,
the poor committee members. I
just don't believe that. What
we're doing up here. Denotes
that time type of that. That
to me is for like a criminal.
You know, somebody who's. You
know, done something so
dastardly 2 years after we can
get you for it. It's not for
me voting on ordinances. And
express. In my opinion on.
Well, Florida housing. I don't
see it. It's like too much.
For what we It's like
overreach. And I think we are
already ethically covered. We
don't need to have extra. Put
on That's my opinion.
Councilmember were walking.
Thank you to mayor on you
know. Laws and ethics, you do
different things. You know,
you often uses walk into a
park Leslie and I walk into a
parking and I threw my lunch
on the ground Mike Mike.
Aluminum can and she says pick
it up and I look in addition,
there's no sign that says it.
You must pick up your law
later. There's no sign that
says you must recycle. You
know, this is the right thing
to Know. Really Rondon litter
and not recycle my mind that.
That's kind of the ethical
thing to do. It's like your
conscience. On as the state
law and a few I want But the
our cw on that is mostly
about. Kirsten mentioned
bribes or you can you cannot
give contracts favorable
contract government efforts to
people, you know, relatives
this motion. Front none show
kind of transactions that you
do not want to.
>> Being in proper steward of
tax dollars. Interpretation of
she w. On the
>> I'm sorry, counselor. I
didn't quite capture. It's
hard so if you're walking
through a Telling Joe just
took.
>> So. Yeah, simply just a
recent presentation of the
state. You know, revise go to
Washington on ethics and
mostly was about financial
things that you cannot benefit
your relatives on that kind of
thing or you can and as well,
of course. But those kind of
effort and dealing with the
proper use city and county
revenues.
>> That's correct. Council
more waukee that ethics code
largely has to deal with
financial interests and
contracts, prohibited on that
establishes and essentially a
basement for ethics for all
local City Council members is
Topples had mentioned the
city's ethics program this
kind of raises that far. It's
it's a separate and distinct
animal than it is from the
That's And I think it's good
to elevate the bar.
>> So I'm reading because this
is news to me. I'm glad that
the memo came forward to it is
that's comprehensive as usual
coming from the author. That
the city's ethics program
describes a two-year post
service restriction specific
action by former Council
PRESIDENT Friends for example,
unemployment benefits or
litigation involving prior
matters. You know. So that's a
that's a pretty narrow focus
of what you could be. Hard to
do. And I think that's not
actually not an unreasonable
because you might discover
some impropriety. Let's say.
You discover an embezzlement.
You know, you're later. So
there was a you might have
that method to have some
remedy. But other things I
don't I'm not quite sure if
that's something I I would
kind. I'm kind of leaning
toward my colleagues here and
the concern of there might be
a witch Hunter. Someone
doesn't like you anymore. You
know, they do and they just
want to know, Harris, you give
you a hard time on something
so what are your thoughts of
narrowing it to. Just like to
state our cw rules of ethics.
The question goes to. Any of
those are all of us kind of
wide open I've I've been
trying myself
>> get my hands around. What
is the unfinished business
here. I'm not. It. I do think
we have been. In some measure
at odds with. The initiatives.
Are the values represented by
ethics board. And want to
resolve miscommunication or
any Sense of unfinished
business. On that score. But I
need help. Because her dates
first imminent.
>> Great. Thank you to mayor
perhaps maybe chair members of
the Pats explore might want to
come. I my question is
relating to the I'm just
looking the amendment does not
provide equity across schools
and. We let's do rather have
maybe everyone has 2 years,
maybe when people leave. And
that's whether it's like
committee member councilmember
so list. Let's keep I think
that that a very good point,
frankly, I wasn't aware that
there's somehow we're by doing
what was suggested to where in
and equitable position. So I
guess my question whether
members can choose Tecumseh to
hear. Thank you. To address.
Let's do equity. But is there
another way of doing the
equity that is not onerous
because we have had members,
including myself frivolous
ethics complaints to say
they're not pleasant. They
really are not. And. They
don't serve any purpose. So
what if we bring the equity in
But in a way that's not
onerous on either council
members or committee members
and whether you choose to come
up and talk about, you know,
>> All right. Good evening.
City Council and doing okay to
have a chair of the efforts
were. Can you hear me? I just
a few things. I want to jump
into really quickly. First of
all, we don't file complaints.
The board is not file
complaints. We don't hunt
people down the filing the
complaints is a right given to
citizens in almost every
municipality. That is a client
of mine. They are dealing with
it on some level this is not
the board writing this because
we want you guys 100. I've
been dealing as a board member
with my own level unfair
exposure about things that I
had nothing to do with and
I've had, you know, public
statements about me not
knowing what I'm doing, what
I've been doing at for 30
years. So we understand what
it's like to be unfairly
accused of something. And
that's not what we're looking
for. So I think the thing that
we talked about is first of
all, we thought it was a
lowering of the standards not
only for you but for city
advisory numbers and that the
public would probably have
something to say about it.
There's also a contradiction
in that we have parts of the
covid or dealing with
conflicts of interest that
have to your windows. And so
we were trying to be
consistent across the board
with that. That was primarily
way we did the other thing is
that the contradiction is on
the one hand, we say that we
don't want Have complaints
against advisory members or
City Council once they leave.
But on the other hand, we want
to talk about whether or not
complaint is valid based upon
when that incident occurred
versus when it was somebody
was made aware of it. And
theoretically speaking someone
might not become aware of
something until 2 years later
so it's kind of one of those.
Trying to get the street now
because our board has been
working on this since 2022, we
had 2 and a report to replace
that we submitted with several
other recommendations other
than this and we've been
waiting and kind of kicking
the can down the the road for
a lot of different things that
we're asking for. So it's not
I mean, I know that these 2
things are important to you as
well. But we have other things
that we're actually trying to
focus on one of them was, you
know, whether or not the city
manager could request advisory
teams as other things that
we're trying to get our board.
Cooper said so that we can
represent the public quickly.
So that's where we If you have
any questions for me. Happy to
answer Frederick Johnson. And
then the mayor Matthews.
>> Thank you for straightening
that I guess kind of like
what? Councilmember Dietz was
saying. How do we resolve this
right. First of all, one of
the things that. Is important
to me is the. When people
leave. 2 years after they
leave. I know you guys are not
in this
>> And and I know that. Yeah,
it seems to me that the way to
kind of come to some sort of
middle ground with that is it
should depend on whatever the
complaint is right. Because if
I'm gone to 2 years. And
somebody says, well, you know,
which has happened. She had so
and so on her election
committee and now she wants to
be on the committee that has
nothing to do with finances.
So if it if it has something
to do with city finances. I
can see have and maybe a
one-year period. But not to.
And I can't see that for every
complaint. I just you know, I
would like to get to a point
where we all can agree on
that's required. And when it's
not. As far ends. Now I forgot
what the other thing with Wait
a minute, just commitment.
That's coming. Then see note
accompanying the second I
start talking.
>> Thank you so much, for
being So my objective is to
get a scope static. So
whatever it takes to get us
there. I have a hard time
making decisions that affect
us. I think I haven't. I'm
easy. It's easy me to say. I
don't think that the citizen
volunteers should be subject
to something. 2 years later. I
just think with us. It's a
little touchy that even be
talking about ethics rules for
ourselves. I really think
that's your role. You've been
in position for several years.
This is your perfect. Like I
trust you. So I trust you to
say Council. This is my
recommendation. Let's do it.
Maybe we can compromise with
the citizen committees that 2
years aren't an issue,
especially we are all it's an
election season we're seeing,
you know, facebook in
Bainbridge Islanders and all
of those things saying that
folks, you know, are
benefiting from for instance,
the 65, you know, things that
are not true. We know they're
not 2, but to then turn around
and say, oh, by the way,
you're going to decrease the
efficacy of our ethics program
or change the terms of that we
are not accountable to me.
Seems the wrong time, wrong
place so it seems so my let's
get called a static. You tell
us what to do and maybe the
citizen committees will not be
subject to anything 2 years
prior. But I think for us
we're elected officials. We
signed up for this. We take
the good with the bad and
sometimes the bat.
>> You responded that I don't
know what this. Funny. I was
going to say that one of the
reasons why this originally
started with 12 months is
because we were trying to
actually come up with some
happy medium. We did not want
to do 2 years. The only reason
why we went back to 2 years
later. It because we recognize
that there's 2 years already
in the code for other things.
And so we thought, well, why
not just make sure it's
consistent. There is a valid
argument to be. They made
advocating strongly for your
own exclusion is south of the
form of self-dealing on the I
don't. That's not for me to
say. But I would say that
we're trying to be sensitive
to that for the public sake.
And we are very sympathetic to
frivolous claims. We have
tried very hard to emphasized
over and over again that we
are educational. Our mission
is educational and we know
we've been weaponized in the
past. And so we have really
tried hard to make sure that
this you know, this is not a
witch hunt. This is not trying
to embarrass people. This is
an opportunity for us to take
that information back to the
public and say this is going
to be the standard of
governance. And this MAY have
been a violation of the code,
but there are several
subsections that say, well,
maybe this is something that.
Violated the covid. Maybe it
didn't rise to the level of,
you know, having someone sent
to this hearing examiner,
whatever. So we do make those
determinations. But another
final thing that I'm gonna
risk is you want to speak.
Final thing is going to say is
we have not. I shouldn't say
We have not been getting a lot
of complaints And and so we
don't know if that's because
you're doing great, which.
>> I wouldn't be surprised if
you work for people to kind of
pausing and not trying to
weaponize this as much so I
take that as you will. But we
are trying we're just trying
to move forward in a way that
that public trust.
>> The other lights on who's
next to Milwaukee and then
counselor Schneider.
>> Thank you your opening
comment. I would. I don't
think anybody it's nice was
assuming that who was the.
Ethics board wanted to do it
with thinking of someone
bringing stuff to you. So I
hope you didn't think that we
were suggesting that it was
members of the board. And as
usual, I learn a lot when I'm
always talking with you and I
did not know of section e of
article 2, that establishes a
two-year post service
restriction on specific
actions. Was news to me.
Really so it's there. My
question would thank you for
saying about frivolous because
there are people could lead
anything. But I was trying to
align with. What are the state
codes of ethics, which is a
pretty narrow use. And on that
case that seemed like
somewhere down the You know,
took the city car without
permission to go to.
Vancouver, something like that
but never reported it. Couple
usually that's worth
investigating. That's an
improper use of city material,
city property. So that's the
kind of thing that I think
would be worth that. I just
want to make sure 5 Cone. And
so if we don't do this and I
was also stunned to think that
our volunteers are also part
of this that could have a
chilling effect of want to be
a volunteer that you might you
might not want to apply
knowing that if the U.S. And
one little thing that might
have interpreted by someone
else that going to be hounded.
You know, you're an athlete or
I don't want that and we more
people to volunteer, not not
shy them away. I'm just
putting his thoughts out there
having a great discussion
appear it is a study session.
So what we're studying the
issue allowed. Thank you.
>> Because for Schneider and
then councilmember Thank you.
Deputy mayor Daniel, thank you
very much for the thoughtful.
Memo and pointing out the.
>> In consistencies or, you
know, the treatment of it.
>> I'm imagining that you and
your team have. Gandhi on this
issue and come up with quite a
few hypotheticals. I'm
wondering if you could.
>> Share.
>> I think what we're talking
about is the public good here,
right. And we're not talking
about criminality because that
is a different system and that
yeah, you'll get hunted But in
terms of public good
councilmember more waukee.
Maybe just suggested
hypothetical situation where
somebody a couple years ago.
You know, it took and it took
city vehicle use it
inappropriately. Carrying that
forward. I'm wondering, ok,
what would the public can good
be in. Following up with that
particular councilmember,
let's say. And what would the
consequences be. You know,
Sir, chest dicing them or the
raising the issue so that
other people are very aware
that, you know that. That's an
inappropriate use of public
vehicles or something like
that. So just wondering if you
have any thoughts examples
about what. Public good would
be. In following up. I don't
know. Inappropriate whatever's
them mean it has to come from
the public somewhere that
somebody is being, you know,
it not charge. That sounds.
>> Somebody is being
incriminated What are your
thoughts on the public good in
that
>> I would say that. The
public. Has to decide what to
the interest of the public
good.
>> And our job is to make sure
that we're looking at the code
and making an objective
determination. So for us what
we just kicked around in one
of our most recent meetings
was the word significant.
Significant private or.
Financial interest. When you
talk about conflict,
significant, not just someone
saying you did this and now
I'm filing a complaint. They
have a right to do that. But
one were deliberating. We have
to make a decision with
counsel who's in the room with
us all the time about whether
or not something rose to the
level of a violation that will
require some type of a letter
of determination. Maria saying
that there was a violation of
these to go to the next step.
Sometimes when we are doing
something that has not risen
to that level. We do a letter
of dismissal, but we take the
opportunity in that document
to reiterate what the code is,
why it's good to follow it and
what people should be paying
attention to weather out there
representing the public as
government official or even as
a city buys a group member.
It's just a reminder. It's
educational. I get your point
that there's some people that
are going to weaponize it and
think that something was more
egregious, that ultimately we
may decide it was. But in
terms of what the public good.
Unfortunately, they have a
right to decide that. And the
best thing for us to do is to
make sure that we're doing our
job appropriately with the
best code to support that
decision making. Council
member.
>> Hi topless. Yeah, just a
couple things. I am just still
trying grapple with how this
works. So one thing I
understand it means there is
an educational component. And
then there is center. There is
you know, there's there's that
potentially going to a hearing
examiner process etc and this
is trend or stand on the slide
is they want to appeal to
Andrew city. It It's a tourney
other we MAY appear to answer
is how there even is. How the
city can reach out like this
and go after somebody I'm you
know, I'm just imagine myself
to shun now and some and I'm
being called out for something
and it MAY not be this ethics
committee that we've the in
board that we have great faith
could be some other random
people. And you know, they're
not as good at filtering this
and all this. And I'm suppose
take my resources and my time
to answer a city ethics code
violation. 2 years after my
term in office. So I would do
it here for and about that.
And then I wanted to talk
about this. You know, the
public nothing would stop the
ethics board moving a program
where and if a complete was
brought within 2 years, 3
years or whatever afterwards
to have a process for
utilizing the fact pattern to
do an educational finding.
What I'm really struggling
with is the jurisdiction
anybody here to censure or
make me get legal counsel of.
I want to defend myself of
that hearings for it just
doesn't, you know, doesn't
make sense to me. And the last
thing I want to say flimsy
thing else. It is again our cw
that is out there the guards
to the big stuff, the stuff
really make people's hair
stand on end is still out
there is not necessarily. I
don't think even just all
criminal. I think it could be
but think it's fix. But yeah,
anything you can help with
that. Andrew with regards to
that, how the city reaches
gets me 2 years later and then
on then also been fredonia.
Any idea about is the
possibility of capturing the
fact pattern for educational
purposes rather than putting
us or committee members.
Anybody in the position of
having to participate in some
sort of point of litigation
Council member of great
question.
>> And fundamentally, as you
mentioned, it's about
jurisdiction. And just quickly
looked up the program and I
think if you look at the
potential. Consequences and
ramifications of a violation
of the ethics program. It
tells you a lot. The potential
consequences could be at
mission reprimand censure and
other sanctions MAY be imposed
for court of law equity. And
really these of these it from
my perspective, these
potential consequences are
already within the purview of
City Council. City Council can
you know issue formal
reprimand, a of a committee
member or or a commission
member but that doesn't really
have any sort of, you know,
potential fine, for example,
you don't have to 10 show
criminal time. Things like
that. So it is kind of a
tricky situation. We find
ourselves So I guess to put
more bluntly. You know. The
jurisdiction that the City
Council has his comfort with
through the program and City
Council has that ability to do
that simply because the City
Council is the ability to to
censure and on mission to was
already. I'm not sure if it
answer to question. But. Like
>> But we're talking a former
council members so and I
realize is that because I
mean, there is a harm and the
harm is patients cetera. And
you realize that we're
probably so that when the
shadow of the public figure
stuff. So we don't really the
claim. But whether we can
pursue a claim successfully
about being, you know, about
being censured, being an
obstacle 2 years after we've
been out of office. It's it's
a car. So I guess point that I
see that it MAY not be her
measurable enough that, you
know, we care about
jurisdiction. But on the other
hand, the City Council is
asserting jurisdiction over
people are no longer members
of their body.
>> Excellent point. And I
think that's kind of a policy
point that you product. And I
think that phone number
correctly, you're a former
assistant city attorney. How
was the one who developed this
program. I think he or she
carefully crafted the
potential consequences knowing
you know that there's
potential harm involved. But
there's also jurisdictional
issues involved. So it's a
careful balance. Find
ourselves in.
>> Councilmember federal yet
so moving forward from this. I
What I'd like to see the you
said there were. Things list
already in the code.
>> That apply to 2 years.
>> I guess I don't know what
those and what what would
apply.
>> After 2 years that someone
is gone. What what? Instance
of what issue could they have
committed that now you can
come 2 years and say we would
like you to come today here in
Boardman. Explain yourself.
>> So part of that code talks
a ploy you know, like whether
or not you're able to be
employed by the city after
serving. And so that's a
two-year period. You can't
really work for the city for 2
years after you're I think
another one in there is still
regarding. Significant
financial. Conflict of
interest. So those are the
main too. And their
reasonable.
>> Yeah. So so what what what
the premise is than that
because the there are other
things in there that have the
two-year period that
everything should have the
two-year period.
>> just a matter of
consistency. I mean, we also
offered one year. Good. But
the the issue wouldn't be
consistent. It's light. You
know, those 2 things I can see
right not being employed by
the city the 2 years. I get
that because you still MAY
have some knowledge or
whatever. And the financial I
get significant would want you
to commit fraud and then 2
years go away, which it with
your money right. But I don't
see anything else that I mean,
I guess what I would like to
is a list of things that the
ethics board thinks needs to
be 2 years after I'm gone.
>> I think the better question
for us is that we respect the
right that the public gets to
decide. What they feel. Is
that egregious or. In a fence
or a violation of potential
violation to file. We don't
want to tell them what they
should file. We are here
listen to them and to review
it when they do. It's not
perfect. I think that there
are 2 things that can happen
multiple things that could
happen. And I don't want to
insult your intelligence by
saying that, hey, we're
educational. There are no
ramifications certainly are.
Especially if you're going to
hearing examiner something
ends up in the paper, whatever
it is. On the flip side of
that, we've seen it to where
you it helps you to to make
your case of somebody making a
claim against Republic. That's
not true. And then you come
the ethics board and we review
that complaint and see that
there's no violation that ends
up helping you. So I mean, I
know we tend to look at the
worst part because those are
the ones that hurt the most.
But it's a broader issue that
we are looking at as a board.
We have to step back a little
bit and look at the code and
say what's the best possible
outcome here. What are we
trying to achieve and how can
we as a board make sure that
we are putting together the
most robust mindful code so
that the objective that we are
stating is is reached and so I
hear what you guys are I hope
you understand what we're
saying we'll just try to
figure something out but yeah,
agree that that's what we need
to do because the harm that I
see.
>> For me is that. You know,
someone brings a complaint
against me. Now, I'm I'm it
Ris loose in my day job now
because I've done some
conduct.
>> It's not ethical. You know,
and or so someone so it's it's
a double jeopardy. It's, you
know, so. And I know you guys
work hard too. We doubt these
frivolous complaints. And I
think because. The ethics
committee is no longer being
seen as a weapon is maybe why
you don't have so many
complaints anymore and that's
a good because the service
that you provide. We need that
is not like we're not saying
we don't want to be second
checked. We need that. And
because we know you when not
really enough with the we know
But that's what a good ethics
board does. Is it provides
that that layer of certainty
that you know, somebodys check
and me. I I wish we had that
and our government we don't
have that. So I just would be
happy to you know, I'm sure we
all would be happy to work
with with you guys to come to
some sort of level of
understanding where we can all
be happy with will never be
happy with you. Looking over
my But I understand the need
for it. But I I think it just
I understand the 2 that you
named. It makes sense for me.
The 2 year. But I'd like to
know what else need You know,
and I know you don't want tell
the public what they got say.
I wanted just to be open and
it could be anything. What has
to be the code.
>> But the other thing I want
to say is an example is when I
wasn't the chair, I was on the
board. We created the
subcommittee. And on that
subcommittee was a council
member deeds and councilmember
her topless and myself and a
chair. And we had discussion
because the issue that we had
actually brought to you was
redaction because we
understood that removing
information any identifying
information names companies,
any kind of references that
are in those documents. We
pull those out so that it
isn't weaponized. What we're
hearing now, of course, it's a
public record. So it doesn't
guarantee total anonymity. But
that was something that we
came to an agreement about.
And the result of that was
councilmember high top list we
all agreed it was one meeting.
It was hammered out. She put
the language together. It was
fantastic and Pierre are my
point is that we have some
opportunity here. I don't know
what the answer is going to
be. Maybe we can come up with
something between, hey, we're
not going to let anybody do
anything after they leave for
says what are we really trying
to accomplish and then go from
there in terms of trying to
determine what what should
That's walking thank you to
mccourts. And perhaps this is
for Andrew. But. I just read
this again and it's a it's got
contradictions itself. But so
follow me through.
>> It says complaints must be
filed within 2 years of the
alleged violations occurrence.
So it's not 2 years, let's say
the occurrence happened last
year. So is that to mean that.
Because of last year it could
be one years already passed.
So you can only it's only one.
It's got to be within that one
year period because it's a.
Must be filed in 2 years of
the alleged violations
occurrence. So to be full 2
years would be the end of this
End of my term and then that's
the current state. So the
occurrence date is where the
time clock starts on this
two-year period. If I'm
reading that correctly and
then the second one, it says
MAY be filed. And I know we
all know language up here.
Should Michelle, you should is
a requirement. They are my is
a suggestion they weren't. You
know, it's a judgment on what
to do. It says complaints may
be filed within 2 years after
a council member advisory
group member leave service
provided the alleged violation
occurred during the term. Now
that's broader. But it says
MAY I mean, so there's a
there's I think some sort of.
Allowance of interpretation of
is a serious or But the first
one is really to clear one
because it says it must be
found in 2 years. Of the
alleged violations occurrence.
So as I interpret that, that's
where the clock starts on the
two-year limitation.
>> Yes, that's that's how
interpret it. Interpret the at
least as propose. Both of
these to required because he
had that thing and and that
the 2 years would start with
violation occurrence. I agree.
>> One of the concerns that
councilmember her topless head
was regarding what happens in
a court of law depending upon
the area of law because
there's discovery rule here in
Washington and that wanting
something based upon when it's
discovered when there's
awareness event versus when it
occurred. Obviously the the
potential issue with the other
one is that it could p 3
years. Someone could find out
something. I mean, there has
to be reasonable period
because it's going it's going
it's going to be on a
case-by-case basis anyway
because you have to look at
weather. It puts us in a
position of having to that.
Whether or not there's some
validity to win. That person
says they were aware of it.
And we're not a tribunal. So i
mean, we cannot do any
fact-finding independently. We
only have to look at the
information is provided and
then do follow-up of someone's
represent if referencing
minutes or a video, whatever
we can go look at that. But we
cannot go into independent
fact-finding outside of was
provided to us from reviewing
the complaint. So if someone
says, oh, I didn't find out
about this until 3 years
later. And it's not true. We
don't have any mechanism for
determining that.
>> motion think you did the So
I think alluded to starting to
see the flip which is.
>> Let's say that this that we
didn't have the ability for
the ethics board too. So to
follow a complaint after, you
know, someone is out of
office. Then people could
start saying really nasty
things on sale on social media
or whatever. This could be
with with with it being in
place. The ethics board could
look at it. I let's see their
slender me or saying things
about what I did. You know,
while I was in office. And I'm
going return back and say,
well.
>> File a complaint, and then
they do or they don't. But if
they do, then I I get a
hearing. You know, I
>> and so then the other side
is that there's the
possibility for the ethics
board too. Be weaponized
right. And so you know, I I
guess I think we already have
the ability to take it to a
hearing examiner. I'm not
sure, but it would be to have
the the comfort that, you
know, if something terrible
didn't happen. I mean, this
never happens in real life but
let's just say the at that
sport got weaponized. You
know, I would want the ability
to say yeah, I'd like to have,
you know, I'd like to appeal,
please. So anyway, I'm just
thinking that. The flip side
is very that it's a way for us
to be exonerated.
>> That was the point I was
making earlier and then of
course, worst case scenario.
Is that someone does something
and then they say, you know
what, I'm going to leave this
advisory group and then to
leave City Council and you can
come after me. I'm done. So
that's the worst-case
scenario. And I don't think
the public would like that. So
I mean, in some ways it's like
if there is fix board and the
only time you end up at the
hearing examiner's for code of
conduct. By the way, not a
code of ethics. I would
suspect that people would come
after you even harder if they
felt like they couldn't file
an ethics complaint because
you're gone and you left. So
if you're trying to avoid, you
know. Being dragged through
the mud. I don't think that's
necessarily a guarantee. And
again, I sympathize with you
guys because I ended up in the
newspaper about something I
keep saying it. I know Ashley
over there. The mayor is not
in casinos. And I can tell you
right now, I work with
governments and I work with.
Defense contractors and I work
with fortune 100 and I can
tell you that right now. Years
later, if you search for my
company over me. It is still a
result that shows up. That I
was in an article where we
were accused of a crime. And I
had nothing to do with the
issue at all. But my face was
used by media because they
claim that was the only
picture they could find. So
this is not us trying to find
a way to. Anybody. Fact, we've
we have been weaponized quite
a bit. And we have done a
great job, I think of getting
aboard that. Tries to mitigate
that. Anymore. Questions for
me.
>> Do you want any guidance or
encouragement from
>> I mean, I understand why we
don't have a council I like to
make sure that there's no
appearance of impropriety or
undue influence because that
helps us to remain objective.
I think that the I think that
we transparent both of us,
yes, and authentic and our
communication. And I think
that's that's what that's
what's required feel. This is.
>> a matter for your board to
discuss proceed with to the
best.
>> council topless think it's
on us. I think they've done
their processing. They've made
the recommendations as much as
it MAY feel we're that we're
involved. The code is our
code. We passed the code. So
we have to amend the code. So
that decisions are with us
now. Next steps are.
>> If I can make one last
recommendation take Maybe the
middle ground is for us to
form another subcommittee like
we did before. And then just
kind of hash it come up with
something and then bring it
back to our respective bodies.
>> And that was to be my son
Yeah, think I think we suggest
that during a business meeting
subset of the subcommittee.
Thank you very much. We serve
at your pleasure. Thanks Thank
next item is into committee
reports. A new have something
to report cause Milwaukee
tribute. Some really
interesting stuff.
>> Last Friday. The content
housing authority in the tour
to several of us commissioners
2 on the properties in the
North. And there are so many
we're going to do a second
tour. But I was just stunned
at what is in the inventory
for contempt housing
Authority. Just a few places
you want to. First one had 48
units. A second one was 5
single-family homes. Another
one was a large apartment
complex broken up into 3
segments 25 units 45 a
teenager apartments and then
there's one place come. In
addition mention because it's
really cool. But it's in this
whole subdivision and it's by
itself that you think it was
the most. Beautiful house in
the area that one of the
housing Authority's private
home. Resident says pretty
amazing. And then there's a
place called far side, which
reminded me of government
House. And I think it used to
be probably in a, how's it
look from like with the state
government, the road or
government way. And what I saw
Moses Lake at the Air Force
Base. So that was something
people are using properties.
And today consent transit.
Couple of First of all, I'm
going to be on a trip on the
28th of OCTOBER 31st. I mean,
going to Champaign Urbana.
This was set up quite a while
ago and it's mass transit
district. And what we're going
to look at is either elected
riser which makes hydrogen
they have their own plant and
it's run by solar. That is I
know about this. But that
metering? So they produce more
solar plant requires for
energy. So it's amazing to us
to truly rid off. And there
have been 100 you are the
first system to have. I have
articulated hydrogen buses and
Kitsap transit is plan to do
that as well. Have a lot of
money in plan for a future
hydrogen plant and buying
hydrogen buses and I think
it's called who knows French
here. Okay. Fifa. It The for
units sent Federation
international. Now the
football Association, right.
Okay. So that's that's that's
the world club coming year.
Because a transit bumping up a
lot of extra ferries just on
game days. But they're also
putting the eye right here on
the days that there are games
so that will have extra
service right DECEMBER 5th is
wonder going announce it. So
by then we'll know what
countries are coming here and
gets a transit and on the
agencies and no sound transit
and the rest are working
together strategic ties. What
waistline finding they're
going to need to have and that
could be something that we're
going to have to have your own
being, which is Because
perhaps some of those visitors
will be coming to our, I But I
don't think about parking a
lot of people MAY be one of
games and utilize our Island
Park. So that's something we
MAY have look at in the And
finally and a lot of a cent.
Councilmember. Gates and 10
Troy Johnson trip China are at
the no Kings rally this
Saturday. Join this 1000 of
our fellow Patriots on this
Island you know. Can be proud
to be there. It was really I
believe the chambers are
involved planning for fifa as
well. Covered not great. Thank
>> The city of neighbors had a
meeting with the city polls.
This is Council the council
meetings and it was a myself,
deputy mayor you were there
city manager lurking and
councilmember Ed Stern
councilmember Britain that
councilmember duct tape or and
city administrator Gilder
postponed. So number of sound
Olympics trail derelict Looks
like we're going to do a joint
letter on derelict vessels. 3.
'05, working group. There's a
date. We have sent certain
legislation of funding law
enforcement to defer Ferry
line cutting. We're going I
think that's on in the works
to come for a joint a simple
vote we do this quarterly and
it's it's always quite
helpful. The Saturday my
office. Hours 10 noon cups
everyone's. Welcome to see
That's my report.
>> Just mention later this
week Thursday, planning
Commission has a meeting
they're moving. I once ate it
with deliberate speed with a
great deal is is in the
packet. If you're interested.
Take a look at the agenda
packet for Thursday's planning
Commission meeting. And you'll
see the things that are coming
into focus to discussed and
decided upon regard to the
Winslow plant. I look forward
to following that action. The
looking ahead to the next
steps and will begin their
process. They will be
discussing well, I will go
into sea it in the very will
lay down. Yes. Mayor Matthews.
>> Thanks. Deputy mayor. I and
this past Thursday and the
honor to speak at u dub for
School of Public policy and
spoke with a someone is now
become her friend rep Josh
Turner, the mayor reading and
we spoke about it starting a
bold path forward inspiring
public service restoring
civic. Trust through everyone
moving a little bit to the
middle. He I did not know was
just very, very Republican in
that didn't come out in our
discussions about issues that
our cities And so it was
really great event and left
very inspired. I was not here.
This weekend, but I videos.
And of all the folks and I had
an idea there are many
communities including ours who
are really down at having a
lot of problems with food
banks and stuff like that. So
I don't know who organizes it.
But if there was a way for the
next event that folks had to
bring a food item right now.
The greatest needs are
diapers. Wipes formula dairy
products, canned and fresh
meat and financial support. So
if each donated some to help
line or brought a canned item.
That would have been really,
really great. And so maybe the
next time that could be
something.
>> That's I just the 2 of the
focal with with the mayor just
said about it. That's Josh
than their 40 mean, I know we
spent lots of time talking to
him. I just want to point out
that the that yet again. What
a great thing it was about the
collaborative them. Leadership
Institute was a provides
ample. I think he was one of
most fulfilling people to talk
to there and what an
opportunity to see that we can
be a different different
political parties nationally
and still have so much in
common and still be, you know,
leaders that we community
respect. So I knew I just I
just wanted I consider him a
friend and it was really we
dealt with them so much never
came up. Only figured it out.
When I was late night watching
tv w and want to speak. And I
was like, oh, oh.
>> It didn't matter it's just
it's an important lesson. But
thank
>> Meeting adjourned.